# August 2021 - will I be going ?



## NickKelly55

Flights rebooked as had to postpone family trip last year . Will we be allowed to travel do you thick and Will Disney and Universal be open ? What’s people’s predictions ?
Traveling out 1 Aug 21


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## gismo1554

So Disney and Universal have been open for months so that isn't your concern at all they will definitely be open (assuming you are meaning Florida - California is a mmmm at the moment). In terms of travelling I honestly don't know any more. Some days I'm positive by then we will be at the end and starting to travel again and some days I look at my November trip and think I need to rearrange. I personally don't see anything moving until around June but I think once things start up like flights it will be a very quick return so I guess if you would be comfortable in August with the restrictions as they are now i.e. masks in the parks, no fastpasses, low capacity etc then I think there's a good chance. I can't see the restrictions on masks and other aspects being lifted this year in all honesty but I do think that Biden will look at reopening at some point this year


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## MartinoHeat

Disney just extended the "wish you were here" till June but still with September dates. So they seem confident people will be back at the end of the year. August...not sure. I'm hopeful for my November trip.


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## tinkerbell1991

I personally feel like once Biden visits the UK in June, things may begin to open (or at least we'll start to hear more things about borders). I take the media with a pinch of salt at times but there was an article yesterday talking about possible electronic "vaccine passports" which could be a move in the right direction. If you feel confident waiting it out almost then just try to stay positive - that's what I'm doing as we're due to go at the start of Oct


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## Kate_45

If you're travelling with kids vaccination passports won't be any good though as they won't be vaccinated. 
The gov has said that the "passports" won't be a thing, but they tend to go back on most things they say.
I'm just hoping that what they're doing with the pfizer vaccine gap doesn't cause significant problems and that we'll be able to set up travel corridors with countries that have their stuff together. Fingers crossed their plan to vaccinate themselves out of this mess without addressing bigger issues works. Unfortunately I don't think that USA will be at travel corridor stage too soon.

I'd be happy to go anywhere at this point. Israel's looking pretty good


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## Ruttangel

I’ve also got a booking for August but it’s DVC and so I can cancel up to 31 days before.
Flights I can move up to 1 year forward and tickets I can return for next years tickets by paying difference.
I was fairly confident but time is really ticking  on now and it’s about 50/50, really need to see the numbers in hospital come down a lot which might be the case in about May/Jun
Main problem I can see is these variants, it might mean we need vaccination boosters which might not be available until Autumn


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## marcais

I'm not confident of going for our planned trip in Aug 2022, nevermind this year.


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## Plague

The UK government line today (as voiced by the Transport Secretary) is:
_"Please don't go ahead and book holidays. I simply don't know the answer to the question of where we'll be up to this summer.
"It's too early to give that information. The best advice to people is: do nothing at this stage."_

They are getting a lot of flak for it, but really it's just (at last) some honesty - nobody knows how this will play out yet. The SA variant is worrisome, but if a variant appears and spreads that makes the current vaccines only, say, 30% effective then there will be continued restrictions until tweaked vaccines are produced. That will be months, not weeks.


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## gismo1554

I think the biggest issue with some of us is that we moved holidays rather than booking new ones. I certainly wouldn't be looking to book another holiday abroad any time soon but for example I have cruise credit that I'm having to put on a cruise because its only ATOL protected once added to a specific cruise. This has meant I have had to predict when things might reopen and every day it seems things look worse so I have ended up with June and September bookings that now look unlikely.


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## Welsh_Dragon

Ruttangel said:


> tickets I can return for next years tickets by paying difference.


Is this standard WDW policy? Did you buy on US or U.K. site? Daughter and I have APs, but I want to buy tickets for my son, so we can get APRs for him and I am trying to work out the best way to do it, whilst minimising the risk, in case our trip gets cancelled again. Thank you.


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## Ruttangel

Welsh_Dragon said:


> Is this standard WDW policy? Did you buy on US or U.K. site? Daughter and I have APs, but I want to buy tickets for my son, so we can get APRs for him and I am trying to work out the best way to do it, whilst minimising the risk, in case our trip gets cancelled again. Thank you.


Hi.....these were 14 day tickets on AttractionsDirect, so not Annual passes, sorry


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## bex7583

Honestly I am not feeling optimistic about our August trip ( supposed to fly 27th July )

I didn't think it may be possible to travel but I think there will be a lot of associated logistics and extra organisation involved. I am not willing to take multiple tests and I also think that quarantine will be required on return.  We have a cruise booked midway through our trip so would potentially have to take even more tests / admin for that part. 

I really do hope I am wrong as we have planned this for ages and with older teens, it's possiblity the last year they will want to holiday with us.


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## Plague

bex7583 said:


> it's possiblity the last year they will want to holiday with us.


On the upside ... When you do go you'll have more to spend on it   (in theory).


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## bex7583

Plague said:


> On the upside ... When you do go you'll have more to spend on it   (in theory).



Yeah and it will be even cheaper if they do decide not to come


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## disneyholic family

my daughter and son in law have 16 days booked at WDW for August 2021.
For about a month, my son in law has been saying they need to cancel.
Today my daughter final gave me the ok for me to cancel the DVC booking..
so that's it...
WDW 2021 isn't going to happen for anyone in my family....
hopefully, 2022 will actually come to pass...

.


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## scottishgirl1

I am currently booked for near end of August but I think I am going to have to let it go as not enough certainty when balance will be due in May and my grown up kids have said they dont want to go wearing masks. I also have a deposit for myself and 2 of the kids at Xmas but that will depend on their uni timetable and we wont know that until the school leaving exams situation is sorted out. If that runs late they will have January exams so not really practical to go on holiday at Xmas. Looking like May/June 2022 for us potentially. Cant even book that yet with any confidence until uni timetable is sorted sadly.


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## disneyholic family

scottishgirl1 said:


> I am currently booked for near end of August but I think I am going to have to let it go as not enough certainty when balance will be due in May and my grown up kids have said they dont want to go wearing masks. I also have a deposit for myself and 2 of the kids at Xmas but that will depend on their uni timetable and we wont know that until the school leaving exams situation is sorted out. If that runs late they will have January exams so not really practical to go on holiday at Xmas. Looking like May/June 2022 for us potentially. Cant even book that yet with any confidence until uni timetable is sorted sadly.



the CEO of disney apparently just said there would probably be masks for most of 2021.....
i'm so tired of masks, i don't think i'd be able to manage it in orlando summer weather

editing to add an article 
https://www.wwltv.com/article/enter...orts that Disney CEO,not be necessary in 2022.

.
.


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## Plague

disneyholic family said:


> the CEO of disney apparently just said there would probably be masks for most of 2021.....


Reading the DFB article it was a little nuanced:-
"_But Chapek confirmed that the expectation is to have some level of mask wearing and social distancing through the end of this year._"
"_Chapek did state that “a game changer would be if everyone who wants a vaccine can get a vaccine in April,” _"

"_some level"? _If they drop the mask requirement to "Indoor/enclosed spaces" I think I could live with that ... well, holiday with that  
I'm going to sit on my reservation for Oct and not book a flight for at least a few months yet.


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## Mkaiser1

Ruttangel said:


> I’ve also got a booking for August but it’s DVC and so I can cancel up to 31 days before.
> Flights I can move up to 1 year forward and tickets I can return for next years tickets by paying difference.
> I was fairly confident but time is really ticking  on now and it’s about 50/50, really need to see the numbers in hospital come down a lot which might be the case in about May/Jun
> Main problem I can see is these variants, it might mean we need vaccination boosters which might not be available until Autumn


Thanks for sharing the ticket info in the following post. I’d be interested to know who those flights are booked with if you wouldn’t mind sharing as we’re going to book a December DVC trip and that security around flights and park tickets would be great.


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## Ruttangel

Mkaiser1 said:


> Thanks for sharing the ticket info in the following post. I’d be interested to know who those flights are booked with if you wouldn’t mind sharing as we’re going to book a December DVC trip and that security around flights and park tickets would be great.


Hi- it was Lufthansa, as the prices were reasonable we did book premium economy, so not sure if all flights have that option.
To be fair I should have booked fully refundable flights but never mind we will be going next year as I need to use up my DVC points.


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## Mkaiser1

Ruttangel said:


> Hi- it was Lufthansa, as the prices were reasonable we did book premium economy, so not sure if all flights have that option.
> To be fair I should have booked fully refundable flights but never mind we will be going next year as I need to use up my DVC points.


Great info. Thank you for sharing. We’ve been looking at booking with BA (got lots of Avios points to use) but I’ll double check the refund/rearrangement options.


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## Tash87

I'm second guessing making a booking for October next year!

I'm praying that I'm wrong but I'm a worrier and with the current situation I can't help but think even next year might be a no go


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## Minniesgal

NickKelly55 said:


> Flights rebooked as had to postpone family trip last year . Will we be allowed to travel do you thick and Will Disney and Universal be open ? What’s people’s predictions ?
> Traveling out 1 Aug 21



I really don't see it happening this year at all.  I've just moved mine to July 2022


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## Plague

Tash87 said:


> I'm praying that I'm wrong but I'm a worrier and with the current situation I can't help but think even next year might be a no go


I wish I could say you are worrying unnecessarily ... but I don't think I can. 
You'd think we'd be on top of it by then, but with all the vaccine refuseniks and variants popping up all over, almost anything is possible.


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## Tash87

Another announcement today that the park pass reservation being continued until January 2023 

It's good in one way as they will have reduced park numbers but when you're trying to plan for a big group with first timers


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## gismo1554

Tash87 said:


> Another announcement today that the park pass reservation being continued until January 2023
> 
> It's good in one way as they will have reduced park numbers but when you're trying to plan for a big group with first timers



Was this officially announced or are people assuming its being continued because the new release of 2022 hotel stays mentioned the park booking system? I wasn't sure if it was an assumption more than an announcement as have only seen officially through 21. I had assumed that Disney would start with it in place in case they need to use it but then somewhere along the way get rid of it so never actually make an official announcement type thing


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## disneyholic family

gismo1554 said:


> Was this officially announced or are people assuming its being continued because the new release of 2022 hotel stays mentioned the park booking system? I wasn't sure if it was an assumption more than an announcement as have only seen officially through 21. I had assumed that Disney would start with it in place in case they need to use it but then somewhere along the way get rid of it so never actually make an official announcement type thing


you can see in the park pass system that it has been extended to january 14 2023..
it doesn't mean that it will actually be in use then, but the system has been extended to then...

.


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## disneyholic family

meanwhile, i still haven't canceled my daughter and son-in-law's august 2021 reservation (it's in my DVC account which is why i'm the one who has to cancel it)..
i just can't bring myself to do it.....
it's too painful..
am i completely crazy?????????????????
.


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## Plague

disneyholic family said:


> am i completely crazy?????????????????


Let's see:
Fan of a kids cartoon franchise? - check
Wanting to visit overpriced artificial land based on same? - check
Wanting to spend ££££££ visiting said place?  - check
... On the other side of the world? - check
Wanting to do it during a pandemic? - check

I think that's a yes ... for all of us


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## gismo1554

disneyholic family said:


> you can see in the park pass system that it has been extended to january 14 2023..
> it doesn't mean that it will actually be in use then, but the system has been extended to then...



Ah OK so there's a chance its just them future proofing rather than actually saying it will be in place then I guess. Its easier for them to have it in place and then cancel it later on that not have it.



disneyholic family said:


> meanwhile, i still haven't canceled my daughter and son-in-law's august 2021 reservation (it's in my DVC account which is why i'm the one who has to cancel it)..
> i just can't bring myself to do it.....
> it's too painful..
> am i completely crazy?????????????????



We all are! You aren't alone and I still am not sure whether things will suddenly look better in a few months or not.


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## Louise Potts

We are booked 7 of us for July 2021 - I am not holiday out much hope, to be honest I would rather just transfer it to 2022 but Tui will charge us £50pp to do that now so told me to just wait until the final balance was due in May 2021 as they may be able to postpone it for free if the restrictions prevented the holiday going ahead anyway


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## bex7583

Louise Potts said:


> We are booked 7 of us for July 2021 - I am not holiday out much hope, to be honest I would rather just transfer it to 2022 but Tui will charge us £50pp to do that now so told me to just wait until the final balance was due in May 2021 as they may be able to postpone it for free if the restrictions prevented the holiday going ahead anyway



Defo do this. We were due to go to Mexico at Christmas with tui, even when we paid our balance we knew it was 99% chance of getting cancelled. They cancelled it and offered us a good value credit towards rebooking something. I decided not to use the credit as already had things booked this year so requested s refund and it took less than a week to be in our account. Very impressed


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## Ruttangel

Good news in UK as all adults will be vaccinated by July 31st. 
problem will be if USA still wants testing and quarantine, maybe some special relationship can be arranged?


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## bavarian princess

Ruttangel said:


> Good news in UK as all adults will be vaccinated by July 31st.
> problem will be if USA still wants testing and quarantine, maybe some special relationship can be arranged?


Hey, we Europeans don’t want to stay behind   Joke aside, thanks for the update on how you guys in the UK proceed with the roll out of the vaccine.


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## McCrae

I am based in the U.K. and becoming more confident our June/July trip will go ahead.  By then we will be vaccinated. Difficult to see why we wouldn’t be allowed to travel.


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## Plague

McCrae said:


> I am based in the U.K. and becoming more confident our June/July trip will go ahead.  By then we will be vaccinated. Difficult to see why we wouldn’t be allowed to travel.


 If only vaccines were that magic bullet.
This is a section from a BBC News item a few days ago (link to full article at the bottom):
"*Scientific concerns*
_The main scientific issues are around how long immunity lasts and whether vaccines will protect against new variants.
It's difficult to say how long a vaccine passport should be valid for if it's not known how long the protection conferred by the jabs hang around for.
And it will need to be clear whether all the vaccines in use protect against every new variant - especially if people are travelling to parts of the world where the dominant strain is different from the one in their home country.

The vaccine is proving to be very good at protecting people from becoming ill with coronavirus.
But there are still questions around how much it stops people carrying the virus and transmitting it to others.
Understanding this will be important if vaccination status becomes a pass to mix more freely with others, Prof Christopher Dye, an epidemiologist at the University of Oxford who contributed to the report, explained.
He said the only vaccine currently mandated for travel around the world is yellow fever - and there is only one type of vaccine available, it's highly effective, and confers lifelong protection.
The Covid-19 vaccines are not currently in such a "comfortable" spot, he said._"

Full article:
Covid vaccine passports could discriminate, experts warn


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## Plague

McCrae said:


> Difficult to see why we wouldn’t be allowed to travel.


Despite my post above I am hopeful that as both the UK and US are pushing fast with vaccinations we might see a travel corridor between us by the summer.
But I'm still not putting money on an airfare yet.


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## Thegoatfeeder

I'm getting slight more hopeful for our end of August/September trip. A couple of weeks back i'd given up hope, but now as it seems we might get the vaccine sometime in June (possibly...maybe......), we may get to go if a travel corridor is agreed between governments....


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## bex7583

Plague said:


> Despite my post above I am hopeful that as both the UK and US are pushing fast with vaccinations we might see a travel corridor between us by the summer.
> But I'm still not putting money on an airfare yet.



I do think travel will be possible . However I think the test before we leave the UK will be required and then the test requirements to travel back to the UK , if they stay the same as they are now then it's a test in USA and 2 more tests in the UK. 

I have already priced up the tests and it's almost £2000 for our family of 5. We really want to go on the trip but no way am I willing to pay that .


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## Kate_45

Ruttangel said:


> Good news in UK as all adults will be vaccinated by July 31st.
> 
> problem will be if USA still wants testing and quarantine, maybe some special relationship can be arranged?


NoOTE]


No they won't. They'll have been offered their first dose. Twelve weeks after that is October. 

Vaccination agreements depend on if  a) other countries accept UK not administering vaccines as recommended by the manufacturers (but we'll have more info on how Pfizer will pan out then) and b) they work out what to do about children.


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## Plague

Kate_45 said:


> No they won't. They'll have been offered their first dose. Twelve weeks after that is October.


Good point.
And given that at present it takes 2-3 weeks to get protection from the first jab, you can likely add a few more weeks onto the second.

Also a lot of the decisions will be political. Countries heavily dependent on tourism (eg. Spain) will likely open up earlier than those that aren't (eg. USA?).
Making stock market investments after a few beers looks safer than predicting this year's holidays at this point


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## Ruttangel

Kate_45 said:


> NoOTE]
> 
> 
> No they won't. They'll have been offered their first dose. Twelve weeks after that is October.
> 
> Vaccination agreements depend on if  a) other countries accept UK not administering vaccines as recommended by the manufacturers (but we'll have more info on how Pfizer will pan out then) and b) they work out what to do about children.


Well, my point was that they have brought the deadline forward which can only be a good thing.
If they say by 31st July then logistically they will be offering people dates way before that.
The first dose is still 80+% effective.

My point about US border arrangements is that they are likely to be stringent and unless a special travel tunnel is developed it could be difficult to see how you will be able to travel without testing and quarantining.
The original q was do I think an August trip is likely?
At the minute things are improving, so it’s about 40% chance.
It will just take a nasty variant to develop and we are back to 0%


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## Kate_45

Ruttangel said:


> Well, my point was that they have brought the deadline forward which can only be a good thing.
> If they say by 31st July then logistically they will be offering people dates way before that.
> The first dose is still 80+% effective.



They brought the deadline forward because that have changed the "vaccinated" criteria. It is a good thing I agree that they aren't extending it even with this and I am very happy that so much vaccination is happening and that lots of people are being given some protection. Personally I would prefer to see the vulnerable fully vaccinated and not have the enhanced mutation risks of a partially vaccinated population. 

Same areas may be offering for the first doses way before that, some won't. Most places are doing incredibly well but I know of an extremely clinical vulnerable person in Scotland over 80 who still hasn't been given his first vaccine. He was desperate for it and now he's fallen and gone into hospital. But anyway, no cooperation between countries will accept half a vaccine as someone being vaccinated. Even if it were 80% effective, which it isn't. (76% with AZ and v. small and biased sample size, No proof that it lasts with Pfizer after a peak of 52% from first dose. This one is the concerning one as it is still a large part of the stock but is being treated the same as AZ though it is not. We may end up with zero protection by the time they get to dose 2 so that one isn't effective and we are more dependant than we need to be on the autumn boosters. But by then the gov might be justifying mix and match anyway).

Back on topic. I think an august trip is unlikely. And I think you are 100% correct with your last line about nasty variants.


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## Plague

Kate_45 said:


> We may end up with zero protection by the time they get to dose 2 so that one isn't effective and we are more dependant than we need to be on the autumn boosters. But by then the gov might be justifying mix and match anyway).


There it's a trial just getting underway to do controlled tests on both varying the gap between the doses and mixing them. But it all takes time.
I also saw a comment by a researcher in an article yesterday that the Pfizer may not be 95% after all - something about 3,000 Covid19 cases being excluded from the results.
And then, as said, there is the mutation problem.

There are so many uncertainties people really need to manage their expectations. Hope is good - just don't let it morph into something more substantial yet.


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## jackieleanne

Promising news out from Scotland today from Public Health Scotland that Pfizer reduced hospitalisations by 85% and Oxford AZ by 94%. I wonder as well if the G7 meeting could well signal some opening up afterwards of International Travel I'm certainly more hopeful August onwards this week than I was last. Of course that's still 50/50!


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## Ruttangel

Kate_45 said:


> They brought the deadline forward because that have changed the "vaccinated" criteria. It is a good thing I agree that they aren't extending it even with this and I am very happy that so much vaccination is happening and that lots of people are being given some protection. Personally I would prefer to see the vulnerable fully vaccinated and not have the enhanced mutation risks of a partially vaccinated population.
> 
> Same areas may be offering for the first doses way before that, some won't. Most places are doing incredibly well but I know of an extremely clinical vulnerable person in Scotland over 80 who still hasn't been given his first vaccine. He was desperate for it and now he's fallen and gone into hospital. But anyway, no cooperation between countries will accept half a vaccine as someone being vaccinated. Even if it were 80% effective, which it isn't. (76% with AZ and v. small and biased sample size, No proof that it lasts with Pfizer after a peak of 52% from first dose. This one is the concerning one as it is still a large part of the stock but is being treated the same as AZ though it is not. We may end up with zero protection by the time they get to dose 2 so that one isn't effective and we are more dependant than we need to be on the autumn boosters. But by then the gov might be justifying mix and match anyway).
> 
> Back on topic. I think an august trip is unlikely. And I think you are 100% correct with your last line about nasty variants.


I completely understand what issues you are raising.
One last point from me, Public Health are saying After 1 dose the risk of serious illness is reduced by 90% 4 weeks after vaccination. We should see hospitalisations drop off dramatically.
I’m going to look back at this post in 2 months and see what the data is indicating then. Will all schools opening increase transmission and variants? We will see


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## Ruttangel

jackieleanne said:


> Promising news out from Scotland today from Public Health Scotland that Pfizer reduced hospitalisations by 85% and Oxford AZ by 94%. I wonder as well if the G7 meeting could well signal some opening up afterwards of International Travel I'm certainly more hopeful August onwards this week than I was last. Of course that's still 50/50!


Jinx, jinx again!


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## McCrae

Looks like lockdown will be over by June.


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## Ruttangel

“Boris Johnson said a global travel taskforce would put forward a report on how to return to international travel on 12 April. 
The government would then make a decision on removing restrictions on international travel.
However this would not happen until 17 May at the earliest.”

I guess we’re waiting for Apr 12th to get some news then.
Whether that news mentions US or it’s just about EU travel we will see.


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## Thegoatfeeder

Ruttangel said:


> “Boris Johnson said a global travel taskforce would put forward a report on how to return to international travel on 12 April.
> The government would then make a decision on removing restrictions on international travel.
> However this would not happen until 17 May at the earliest.”
> 
> I guess we’re waiting for Apr 12th to get some news then.
> Whether that news mentions US or it’s just about EU travel we will see.



Purely from an economic/business perspective, the UK government is going to want to at least open up the Heathrow - New York route when it can. I'm sure there were talks after lockdown 1 (or was it 2, I lose track!) about opening a travel corridor, I suspect an agreement with the US will come at the same time, if not shortly after any agreements with EU countries.

Having said that, whether that is exclusive to business travel to the US as opposed to leisure travel and therefore only very specific routes, I guess that is up for debate.


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## RossS

We are due to fly 19th august 2021 after postponing our honeymoon from last year.

Trying not to get our hopes up.

We are not sure what to yet. Our final payment is due in May (we will probably have a better picture by then)

The only thing that will stop us is the quarantines. I hope that they will not be in place in august but it is all guess work at the moment. Realistically, i can see there being quarantines.

We cannot go if there is a quarantine due to both of us working in schools, we are not sure what to do as we do not want to move it again to next year, nor do we want to wait a few weeks before them announcing a quarantine and us losing all our money!


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## McCrae

RossS said:


> We are due to fly 19th august 2021 after postponing our honeymoon from last year.
> 
> Trying not to get our hopes up.
> 
> We are not sure what to yet. Our final payment is due in May (we will probably have a better picture by then)
> 
> The only thing that will stop us is the quarantines. I hope that they will not be in place in august but it is all guess work at the moment. Realistically, i can see there being quarantines.
> 
> We cannot go if there is a quarantine due to both of us working in schools, we are not sure what to do as we do not want to move it again to next year, nor do we want to wait a few weeks before them announcing a quarantine and us losing all our money!



The US is further advanced in its vaccine roll out than we are in the U.K.  Looking good for your trip.


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## RossS

Not getting my hopes up, but thanks. A few weeks ago we were 100% sure we would cancel.

All about the quarantine. Don't care about masks. 

All i want to hear is the IOA Port of Entry music and stand there for a frw minutes and ill be happy. (Universal fan) wife is the Disney geek!!


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## bex7583

RossS said:


> We are due to fly 19th august 2021 after postponing our honeymoon from last year.
> 
> Trying not to get our hopes up.
> 
> We are not sure what to yet. Our final payment is due in May (we will probably have a better picture by then)
> 
> The only thing that will stop us is the quarantines. I hope that they will not be in place in august but it is all guess work at the moment. Realistically, i can see there being quarantines.
> 
> We cannot go if there is a quarantine due to both of us working in schools, we are not sure what to do as we do not want to move it again to next year, nor do we want to wait a few weeks before them announcing a quarantine and us losing all our money!



Fingers crossed for you.


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## RossS

Thank you, fingers crossed to all who have booked a holiday!


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## gavvy

In some ways it does not matter what position UK is in come Summer, if the USA still has a closed border then we sadly have no chance of going.

Hopefully with falling cases and increases in people having the Jab the disease will be at such low levels that we are judged to be low risk and are allowed, but its too early to say when/ if that will happen


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## Louise Potts

I have postponed our big extended family trip in July 2021 to July 2022, we have a couples DVC trip scheduled for October and I am hopeful for that going ahead


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## jackieleanne

McCrae said:


> The US is further advanced in its vaccine roll out than we are in the U.K.  Looking good for your trip.



They are acutally further behind than the UK when you look at per capita on the vacinne roll out. The US has done something like 20.63 per 100 people and the UK about 29.3 per 100 people. In terms of vacine numbers they'll always be way ahead because their population dwarfs ours but they have more to do.


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## PaulaSB12

With the news of the Brazil mutation I don't think travel will happen in august this year will look into moving it to next year.


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## Minniesgal

We received an email from Virgin holidays they are now offering unlimited free date moves up until April 2023.  i don't get the feeling they are expecting to be running the Florida route this year.

We have moved ours to 2022


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## Plague

Minniesgal said:


> We received an email from Virgin holidays they are now offering unlimited free date moves up until April 2023.  i don't get the feeling they are expecting to be running the Florida route this year.
> 
> We have moved ours to 2022


The variants are certainly making life even more interesting. I have a horrible feeling that we are heading for each country or part of the world having their own strain, with appropriate vaccines. Thus none will want random travellers fetching and bringing someone else's variant back.
Travel might be allowed, but the quarantine on getting to your destination and again on return would be horrible.

Since Fauci and Disney have pretty much mandated masks into 2022 (I'd guess at least through next winter) I've pretty much given up hope of going this autumn, even if travel is possible.
But I retain a small candle in the window, cos you never know


----------



## Thegoatfeeder

I'm trying to remain positive, the US seem to be making good strides with their vaccination push as are the UK, and as I said earlier, both governments will want some travel routes reopened when possible at least for economic factors.

As other have said though, it's the variants that seem to be the major issue, I guess until we know how well the current vaccines deal with the Brazilian variant we'll remain in the dark.

I am worried though about losing a lot of DVC points if my September trip has to be cancelled though, still, I suppose I shouldn't complain, first world problems and all that!


----------



## Ruttangel

Last week I was at 40% chance Aug trip going ahead, now about 25% due to variants. If borders open but require testing on days 1,7,14 and possibly quarantining afterwards....then that would be me out as well.


----------



## pickers1982

I change daily (we are due December) after I period of its never going to happen I'm not positive for December. August touch and go. May wake up tomorrow and think the opposite however!!!!!! 

Hopefully the vaccine will change things quickly. Hell if we can't go when vaccine rate is high when will you be able to go!


----------



## Plague

pickers1982 said:


> Hell if we can't go when vaccine rate is high when will you be able to go!


Probably once we have a 'flu' situation with Covid.
That is we are trotting out tweaked vaccines each year for the current strain(s) and the death rate is at acceptable levels.


----------



## Ruttangel

Sigh, another UK variant has emerged, it’s going to keep happening so we just gotta hope the vaccines don’t need modifying.


----------



## Plague

Ruttangel said:


> Sigh, another UK variant has emerged, it’s going to keep happening


Yes, as long as there are high infection rates there are fertile 'breeding grounds'. This is why it is such a bad idea when places like Texas decide that it's OK to let it all rip (today's news). It's like saying "We've disabled half the enemy's tanks, we can go home now."  

And then there is the rest of the world with their own 'breeding' programmes. I don't think the phrase "Global Pandemic" has really sunk in yet in respect of international travel.

This is a very adaptive virus, unlike smallpox, measles and some others. One vaccination pp isn't going to be a universal panacea.


----------



## Lyricallie

We've booked a room and tickets for end of September (just before the madness of the 50th). I keep swaying back and forwards with whether it will happen. I'm in Scotland and we have been much stricter (however we often fly from Manchester so who even knows). My fiance and I have been working from home since March, so I think we could quarantine and work from home if we had to. I would not want to quarantine in a hotel for extra cost though. Luckily we can change for £50 up until July, so I'll probably decide then. I think our final day to change is the day before our wedding so I hopefully I'll remember haha.


----------



## alyssa888

Regarding vaccines I did read about some research being done into a vaccine that actually targets a part of the virus which mutates less than the current spike protein being targeted. In effect this would be a vaccine that has some buildt in resistance to varients. Obviously we may still need repeat vaccines if the immune response only lasts a certain period though.

There is still research going on both on the existing vaccines and how well they work, and how well immunity lasts as well as new vaccines. Treatments for Covid19 have improved and will continue to improve, alongside which the younger generation will grow up with immune systems that have likely been exposed to the disease and overall with improving immune responses from exposure-via vaccines or direct contact will over time reduce the impact of Covid 19.  Once levels are around the levels of mortality and hospitalisation that we have for flu (sadly often 10s of thousands a year just in the uk and aound 600k in the world) Covid19 will then become one of the endemic diseases we just live with. However this could take a number of years tbh.

There is no way governments will wait for that so I think there will be travel corridors and passports but holding off booking our trip, keep saving and see what transpires.

I wouldn't bank on any trips in 2021 but who knows?


----------



## Ruttangel

Latest news......

“On 12 April, Government will publish a global travel taskforce report, it will weigh up not only the "extraordinary" UK vaccination rollout but also other countries' vaccine programmes.”

looks like we will all be going to Israel then


----------



## jackieleanne

Ruttangel said:


> Latest news......
> 
> “On 12 April, Government will publish a global travel taskforce report, it will weigh up not only the "extraordinary" UK vaccination rollout but also other countries' vaccine programmes.”
> 
> looks like we will all be going to Israel then



On the back of this Biden has now stated that all american adults will be offered the vaccine by May. I think August and the second half of the year could be likely. I imagine Biden would also be looking at vaccines in other countries and cases etc.

Edited to add he's also said that he hopes for things to be back to normal by July.


----------



## Ruttangel

jackieleanne said:


> On the back of this Biden has now stated that all american adults will be offered the vaccine by May. I think August and the second half of the year could be likely. I imagine Biden would also be looking at vaccines in other countries and cases etc.
> 
> Edited to add he's also said that he hopes for things to be back to normal by July.


I think he was referring to small gatherings on 4th July but still good news

It seems like we are still a way off normal travel arrangement,  ie no testing/quarantining/mask wearing/social distancing. May 2022 would be my guess for that.

Being able to travel in August is very likely but what conditions will it come with, that’s why Im not sure whether to move my holiday to Aug 2022.


----------



## Thegoatfeeder

I find it somewhat comforting that France have recently added the UK to their 'safe' list even though this variant is about, meaning explanation for travel will not be required.

What that means for the US though, who knows? It does seem though that the UK and the US are leading the way (albeit behind Israel) in terms of the vaccination programme. Therefore if the US government does look at a staggered opening of the borders, I can see the UK being high up on their list since a large proportion of our population will have been offered a vaccine by July/August.

What that looks like I guess will be a vaccine passport, testing and masks, social distancing still required etc, I don't see Disney massively changing their operating practises any time soon. But I am slightly hopeful again that some form of travel will be allowed by Summer to the US, however what that means for kids I am not sure since as far as I understand they aren't being vaccinated right now and therefore won't have a vaccine passport.

It's all just guesswork, but seems realistic to me at least, or maybe its just wishful thinking on my part!


----------



## jackieleanne

Oh yes absolutely don't think it's going to be back to normal in the extent that they won't require either the vaccine passport or testing in place, but I don't think the ban will be in place after summer. 

In terms of Disney I've heard rumours that they had a corp package for Harmoneous from Oct/Nov and I think they could be somewhat back to normal all be it without masks and probably still with the booking system in place by Sep/Oct capacity will certainly be more than it is right now that's for sure. 

I think if you can do so without penalty I perhaps would move the date to next year, an then you would also get the new things that had been put in for the 50th. 

I'm so desperate to get back our honeymoon trip got cancelled for the second time. Probably won't go this year, but that being said depending what happens I may end up booking something last minute towards the end of the year.


----------



## Ninabeano

From what I have read there are no incidences of anyone contracting COVID at WDW. Yes the borders will need to be open before we travel but I haven't given up hope of our September trip happening yet. 

My main issue is that when I booked the flight with TUI I mistakenly read the European info re cancellations and amendments. My fault entirely. But the UK T&C means that we will lose £3500 if we cancel and there are no amendments at all. So if the flight is going then so will we! 

I struggle with masks so I would expect to spend more time at the pool rather than in the parks but I am sure we will still have a great time if we are allowed to travel.


----------



## tinkerbell1991

I realise this isn't definite or a fact yet but still wanting people from outside the US to know that there is hope international travel could resume by mid-May


----------



## jackieleanne

tinkerbell1991 said:


> I realise this isn't definite or a fact yet but still wanting people from outside the US to know that there is hope international travel could resume by mid-May
> View attachment 563500



That would line up with Virgin having flights back on from then and also with the UK restrictions set to end then too.


----------



## Thegoatfeeder

jackieleanne said:


> That would line up with Virgin having flights back on from then and also with the UK restrictions set to end then too.



I swear every day I swing between thinking my August/September trip will happen to thinking it definitely won’t. Yesterday with the vaccine delays I thought it was definitely off, but now, I’m thinking maybe it’s back on again!


----------



## Thegoatfeeder

tinkerbell1991 said:


> I realise this isn't definite or a fact yet but still wanting people from outside the US to know that there is hope international travel could resume by mid-May
> View attachment 563500



For anyone interested, the CNBC version of this story is here, mid May for the UK seems possible through pre departure testing:

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/18/bid...g-covid-travel-restrictions-sources-say-.html


----------



## Ruttangel

Oh no!!! “Summer holidays extremely unlikely!”
comes from a scientific advisor, I’m still waiting til 12th April before giving up completely. 
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56467813


----------



## Thegoatfeeder

Ruttangel said:


> Oh no!!! “Summer holidays extremely unlikely!”
> comes from a scientific advisor, I’m still waiting til 12th April before giving up completely.
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56467813



...and just like that i'm thinking the August trip is now not happening again!


----------



## Plague

And Japan isn't allowing spectators (and I assume tourists) into the country for the Olympics.

I still hope, but realistically 2021 is probably a goner for foreign holidays


----------



## Thegoatfeeder

Plague said:


> And Japan isn't allowing spectators (and I assume tourists) into the country for the Olympics.
> 
> I still hope, but realistically 2021 is probably a goner for foreign holidays



Maybe November...December....


----------



## bavarian princess

Thegoatfeeder said:


> Maybe November...December....


Hopefully... 

(Btw...I absolutely agree that we need more Muppets )


----------



## Plague

Thegoatfeeder said:


> Maybe November...December....


I'm booked around Halloween. Hence the remaining glimmer of hope.


----------



## Welsh_Dragon

Plague said:


> I'm booked around Halloween. Hence the remaining glimmer of hope.


I have postponed around Halloween until Christmas. I was feeling extremely optimistic until this week.


----------



## Ian8000

Welsh_Dragon said:


> I have postponed around Halloween until Christmas. I was feeling extremely optimistic until this week.


Did you really think two winter months would make any difference?


----------



## Ian8000

Nobody will be going this year quarantine free, we should accept it and move on.


----------



## Welsh_Dragon

Ian8000 said:


> Did you really think two winter months would make any difference?


Ever the optimist!


----------



## Nikkinic14

MartinoHeat said:


> Disney just extended the "wish you were here" till June but still with September dates. So they seem confident people will be back at the end of the year. August...not sure. I'm hopeful for my November trip.


That’s good to know. Thanks for sharing


----------



## Nikkinic14

NickKelly55 said:


> Flights rebooked as had to postpone family trip last year . Will we be allowed to travel do you thick and Will Disney and Universal be open ? What’s people’s predictions ?
> Traveling out 1 Aug 21


Florida is open


----------



## scottishgirl1

We had August booked but now in for Christmas. I just dont know, depends if they stick rigidly to 2021 dates, there will be flu around by then but do we move to a living with it situation, how long can they keep this going!? Who knows? I am in Ireland by the way which is why I moved August because we are behind UK on vaccination so that is just another aspect of the guessing game for any travel!


----------



## Ian8000

Flu has zero/zilch to do with Covid


----------



## Welsh_Dragon

scottishgirl1 said:


> We had August booked but now in for Christmas. I just dont know, depends if they stick rigidly to 2021 dates, there will be flu around by then but do we move to a living with it situation, how long can they keep this going!? Who knows? I am in Ireland by the way which is why I moved August because we are behind UK on vaccination so that is just another aspect of the guessing game for any travel!


I having my first vaccination on Thursday , so hopefully I will be fully vaccinated by the end of June. Wales is moving at a reasonable pace, both in terms of vaccine roll out and easing of lockdown, so I am hopeful for December travel. It’s better to be optimistic and hopeful, than pessimistic and miserable.


----------



## Plague

scottishgirl1 said:


> but do we move to a living with it situation, how long can they keep this going!?


Some UK expert thinks we'll be wearing masks for a few years ... until the whole world is vaccinated. 
I really, really hope they are wrong.


----------



## jf256

Plague said:


> Some UK expert thinks we'll be wearing masks for a few years ... until the whole world is vaccinated.
> I really, really hope they are wrong.



I think in certain areas we should have to wear masks for ever. Like on tubes and in enclosed spaces. Usually get 4 colds a year..nothing since the pandemic started. A guy literally sneezed into my mouth as i yawned once. No attempt to cover his face or at least move it down. Didnt bother to apologise either.


----------



## Ruttangel

I just wonder if Jun-Oct might be allowed and then a winter travel ban might come back in force Nov-Feb to prevent spikes in cases/new variants when NHS is in winter pressure mode.
Just another random thought for the day.


----------



## Plague

jf256 said:


> A guy literally sneezed into my mouth as i yawned once.


I was brought up to put my hand over my mouth when yawning.
I thought it was so other people didn't have to see my tonsils and to prevent insects flying in, but that's another good reason to do it.


----------



## Plague

Ruttangel said:


> I just wonder if Jun-Oct might be allowed and then a winter travel ban might come back in force Nov-Feb to prevent spikes in cases/new variants when NHS is in winter pressure mode.
> Just another random thought for the day.


I honestly have no clue at this stage.
Between vaccines and variants almost anything could happen


----------



## cliveywolves

It’s to early too call still for this year, I certainly think July onwards maybe possible if the UK and US keep going as well with vaccines and we can keep deaths down to a minimal number, we all have to remember positive cases will certainly stay with us COVID-19 is not going away anytime soon and will remain prevalent for many years such as flu etc. But with vaccines reducing illnesses and death, further testing is a way back to a new normal life for all. I’d certainly say as things stand more chance of travelling to the US this year than most places in the EU. We can’t keep the world locked down forever it will simply break financially never mind mental health etc. Life has always been about risk some embrace and some don’t it’s personal choice but once we’ve all been vaccinated in the UK it should make a massive difference to how we all feel moving forward. Fingers crossed for a 2021 Florida vacation.


----------



## tinkerbell1991

cliveywolves said:


> It’s to early too call still for this year, I certainly think July onwards maybe possible if the UK and US keep going as well with vaccines and we can keep deaths down to a minimal number, we all have to remember positive cases will certainly stay with us COVID-19 is not going away anytime soon and will remain prevalent for many years such as flu etc. But with vaccines reducing illnesses and death, further testing is a way back to a new normal life for all. I’d certainly say as things stand more chance of travelling to the US this year than most places in the EU. We can’t keep the world locked down forever it will simply break financially never mind mental health etc. Life has always been about risk some embrace and some don’t it’s personal choice but once we’ve all been vaccinated in the UK it should make a massive difference to how we all feel moving forward. Fingers crossed for a 2021 Florida vacation.


Couldn't have said it any better


----------



## Thegoatfeeder

cliveywolves said:


> It’s to early too call still for this year, I certainly think July onwards maybe possible if the UK and US keep going as well with vaccines and we can keep deaths down to a minimal number, we all have to remember positive cases will certainly stay with us COVID-19 is not going away anytime soon and will remain prevalent for many years such as flu etc. But with vaccines reducing illnesses and death, further testing is a way back to a new normal life for all. I’d certainly say as things stand more chance of travelling to the US this year than most places in the EU. We can’t keep the world locked down forever it will simply break financially never mind mental health etc. Life has always been about risk some embrace and some don’t it’s personal choice but once we’ve all been vaccinated in the UK it should make a massive difference to how we all feel moving forward. Fingers crossed for a 2021 Florida vacation.



Lot of sound logic here, was only saying to my partner the other day that trips to the US may be possible earlier than trips to the continent.


----------



## Woodview

Well you will   HAVE     to show   ( read  the Rules )    Why  your travel is necessary      or face  large fine

            Holiday  to Florida       will not  count 

          How long this  rule will last       ?               maybe removed by  September    ..... who  knows

           So   Think    before   you  Book


----------



## Ruttangel

Woodview said:


> Well you will   HAVE     to show   ( read  the Rules )    Why  your travel is necessary      or face  large fine


This is a bit misleading, you can be fined £5k for leaving without good reason before 30th June
However, the rule can and will be revised before then, it doesn’t change the earliest date for international travel which is still 17th May.

I think most of us on this thread booked a long long time ago and are waiting for the travel road map to come out on 12th April to see what travel restrictions will remain.

The big issue at the minute is more to do with a third wave in European countries that are also way behind us and USA on vaccinations


----------



## Ruttangel

Boris now saying he will brief us on 5th April on the global travel plan


----------



## cliveywolves

Very true as we sit tonight but this will change and I’m well aware of rules and no suggestion from me that anyone should break them, just trying to share my feelings and some logic on the issue.. so we can all get back to what we love very soon hopefully..


----------



## jackieleanne

Aer lingus today announced routes from Manchester starting July 29th. I have a feeling that a travel corridor is coming in July why would they announce new routes to start then if it's unlikely to happen. Also heard mentioned by Paul Charles on twitter an then in the daily mail about this travel corridor with the US. 

We just had flights to Madrid at the end of July cancelled by Easyjet it does look more likely that the US could be a thing before Europe.


----------



## tinkerbell1991

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ne-Ministers-talks-American-counterparts.html


----------



## leise

More possible news ..... https://apple.news/AMJBgCozUSPGcVn0yh00etg.


----------



## Thegoatfeeder

Not sure if this has been posted, but the US might be on the ‘green list’ of 12 countries allowing non-essential travel from May. A vaccine passport sounds like it will be required:

https://travelweekly.co.uk/news/air...could-be-open-to-uk-holidaymakers-from-may-17


----------



## Ruttangel

Thegoatfeeder said:


> Not sure if this has been posted, but the US might be on the ‘green list’ of 12 countries allowing non-essential travel from May. A vaccine passport sounds like it will be required:
> 
> https://travelweekly.co.uk/news/air...could-be-open-to-uk-holidaymakers-from-may-17


Seems like a sensible approach.....wish me luck, got second vaccine later today


----------



## Minniesgal

Thegoatfeeder said:


> Not sure if this has been posted, but the US might be on the ‘green list’ of 12 countries allowing non-essential travel from May. A vaccine passport sounds like it will be required:
> 
> https://travelweekly.co.uk/news/air...could-be-open-to-uk-holidaymakers-from-may-17



might just be me but I can't see the UK having vaccination passports logistics together for this summer.  I'd like to think we can do it but i don't see it.

I was shocked hen I was vaccinate they didn't even check ID.  They don' actually know for sure it was me they vaccinated.  Not sure how that translates into passports...


----------



## marcais

Minniesgal said:


> might just be me but I can't see the UK having vaccination passports logistics together for this summer.  I'd like to think we can do it but i don't see it.
> 
> I was shocked hen I was vaccinate they didn't even check ID.  They don' actually know for sure it was me they vaccinated.  Not sure how that translates into passports...



I don't know about the rest of GB, but here in Northern Ireland you have to give your medical number when making your vaccination appointment. So it'll be on your medical record whether you've had the vaccine or not.

In other news, early days yet, but no sign of the Free Dining Plan being made available for 2022 trips. Looks like I'll be spending the entire trip offsite, then.


----------



## Minniesgal

marcais said:


> I don't know about the rest of GB, but here in Northern Ireland you have to give your medical number when making your vaccination appointment. So it'll be on your medical record whether you've had the vaccine or not.
> 
> In other news, early days yet, but no sign of the Free Dining Plan being made available for 2022 trips. Looks like I'll be spending the entire trip offsite, then.



Here too they have my medical number but they don't check identity.  All they asked me for was my date of birth.  Which means you could send someone else to say they are you.  Seems too insecure to form the basis of a vaccination passport system.


----------



## Plague

Minniesgal said:


> Here too they have my medical number but they don't check identity.  All they asked me for was my date of birth.  Which means you could send someone else to say they are you.  Seems too insecure to form the basis of a vaccination passport system.


I doubt that sending someone else to get your vaccination is a big thing. Even if 5% of people did this then they will be well outnumbered by people legitimately vaccinated but for whom it didn't work ... The vaccines are only 80-90% effective, so there is always a 10-20% risk of someone with a 'passport' not being safe. It's about herd immunity, not just the individual.
Hence BJ's warning today about not mixing even if vaccinated.

Forged 'passports' is likely to be a far bigger problem simply because they don't have time to develop and produce something as secure as banknotes or actual passports for these.
And there is still sketchy info about how long each vaccine lasts. If we need boosters in October ...


----------



## Welsh_Dragon

Minniesgal said:


> might just be me but I can't see the UK having vaccination passports logistics together for this summer.  I'd like to think we can do it but i don't see it.
> 
> I was shocked hen I was vaccinate they didn't even check ID.  They don' actually know for sure it was me they vaccinated.  Not sure how that translates into passports...


Interesting! In Wales we have to have show ID, passport or photo driving licence and present the letter inviting us to the appointment or NHS number.


----------



## Plague

Welsh_Dragon said:


> Interesting! In Wales we have to have show ID, passport or photo driving licence and present the letter inviting us to the appointment or NHS number.


For my NHS England (not through GP) appointment all I had to bring was:

_your booking reference numbers_
_a face covering, unless you cannot wear one for a health or disability reason_
The ref was checked at the door.
Afterward I was given a card with the vaccine info and date, but not personalised, so I wrote my name on it.
The only thing they are really trying to block is people not entitled (yet) turning up unannounced and trying to get a shot.


----------



## Welsh_Dragon

Plague said:


> For my NHS England (not through GP) appointment all I had to bring was:
> 
> _your booking reference numbers_
> _a face covering, unless you cannot wear one for a health or disability reason_
> The ref was checked at the door.
> Afterward I was given a card with the vaccine info and date, but not personalised, so I wrote my name on it.
> The only thing they are really trying to block is people not entitled (yet) turning up unannounced and trying to get a shot.


My appointment was at a mass vaccination centre. As usual the correspondence was bilingual ..... but it was 8 pages and the Welsh and English paragraphs were randomly mixed up. I was also given a little card with my name and the vaccine details hand written.


----------



## bcwife76

Thegoatfeeder said:


> Not sure if this has been posted, but the US might be on the ‘green list’ of 12 countries allowing non-essential travel from May. A vaccine passport sounds like it will be required:
> 
> https://travelweekly.co.uk/news/air...could-be-open-to-uk-holidaymakers-from-may-17


I had to look at the list to see which countries you all might be able to visit being on this 'green' list as of May and was shocked to see Canada on it. Yeah...sorry. No. Canada will NOT be allowing any international visitors for quite some time, and certainly not by mid May. Does the UK not realize this? We are FAR behind the UK and the US in vaccinations.


----------



## Lucys dad

bcwife76 said:


> I had to look at the list to see which countries you all might be able to visit being on this 'green' list as of May and was shocked to see Canada on it. Yeah...sorry. No. Canada will NOT be allowing any international visitors for quite some time, and certainly not by mid May. Does the UK not realize this? We are FAR behind the UK and the US in vaccinations.



Was hoping to visit Toronto in September as we have friends there. That is exactly what they said. Not a chance we will be visiting in their opinion.


----------



## Plague

bcwife76 said:


> I had to look at the list to see which countries you all might be able to visit being on this 'green' list as of May and was shocked to see Canada on it. Yeah...sorry. No. Canada will NOT be allowing any international visitors for quite some time, and certainly not by mid May. Does the UK not realize this? We are FAR behind the UK and the US in vaccinations.


You misunderstand the green/yellow/red listings. They relate to what restrictions may be applied to you when you _return_ from those places - ie, how safe they are. It's nothing to do with whether those places will allow you to go there in the first place, and what restrictions you might face at that end if you did.


----------



## bcwife76

Plague said:


> You misunderstand the green/yellow/red listings. They relate to what restrictions may be applied to you when you _return_ from those places - ie, how safe they are. It's nothing to do with whether those places will allow you to go there in the first place, and what restrictions you might face at that end if you did.


Ah ok, that makes more sense! Thanks!


----------



## Plague

bcwife76 said:


> Ah ok, that makes more sense! Thanks!


TBH it's been poorly publicised and I think is a bit confusing. It 'looks' a bit like the travel corridors we had last year but isn't the same (AFAIUI).
I expect a lot of people are busy planning/booking holidays without fully understanding it - "Green means go, right?" Most will probably be OK as a lot of places are desperate for tourist income, but there may be some get caught out.
And as happened last year the classifications could change while you're on holiday and you still have to quarantine on return


----------



## bcwife76

Plague said:


> TBH it's been poorly publicised and I think is a bit confusing. It 'looks' a bit like the travel corridors we had last year but isn't the same (AFAIUI).
> I expect a lot of people are busy planning/booking holidays without fully understanding it - "Green means go, right?" Most will probably be OK as a lot of places are desperate for tourist income, but there may be some get caught out.
> And as happened last year the classifications could change while you're on holiday and you still have to quarantine on return


It is a bit misleading, esp like you said "green means go"  I read you will be getting more information this week regarding travel? Hopefully they will clarify a few more things. I hear you on tbe quarantine, that's what we have here in Canada and it's not going away anytime soon.


----------



## Thegoatfeeder

Plague said:


> TBH it's been poorly publicised and I think is a bit confusing. It 'looks' a bit like the travel corridors we had last year but isn't the same (AFAIUI).
> I expect a lot of people are busy planning/booking holidays without fully understanding it - "Green means go, right?" Most will probably be OK as a lot of places are desperate for tourist income, but there may be some get caught out.
> And as happened last year the classifications could change while you're on holiday and you still have to quarantine on return



This is what I keep explaining to my girlfriend who has now decided our September trip is definitely on. Just because the UK government says we can travel to the US in say June without having to quarantine on return, it doesn't mean A) That the Americans will let us in, or B) The Americans won't make us quarantine when we arrive or C) That the picture won't have changed entirely by September anyway, or D, E, and F any other number of other situations!

I worry she's setting herself up for disappointment!


----------



## cliveywolves

Thegoatfeeder said:


> This is what I keep explaining to my girlfriend who has now decided our September trip is definitely on. Just because the UK government says we can travel to the US in say June without having to quarantine on return, it doesn't mean A) That the Americans will let us in, or B) The Americans won't make us quarantine when we arrive or C) That the picture won't have changed entirely by September anyway, or D, E, and F any other number of other situations!
> 
> I worry she's setting herself up for disappointment!



I am with you and fully understand what your saying we are due to go in October and are very optimistic now, but no guarantees.

Anything could change in 6 months but Im confident the UK is going in the right direction now, also the US are also getting there now and will very soon blow our vaccination charts off the scale they are now averaging 3 millions jabs per day!

We have friends who live in Orlando and they also believe from what they hear and see that UK travellers will be welcome by July that’s not a fixed date but a target date for them.


----------



## Ruttangel

Well, not much of a reveal today was it!


----------



## Plague

Ruttangel said:


> Well, not much of a reveal today was it!


You were expecting a surprise from gov.uk?


----------



## gismo1554

Welsh_Dragon said:


> Interesting! In Wales we have to have show ID, passport or photo driving licence and present the letter inviting us to the appointment or NHS number.



In Wales here too and didn't have to show anything. Mine wasn't done via letter but via telephone call from Doctors (AstraZeneca) and they just asked for name and date of birth so probably could have got someone to do mine for me. I did think they might need ID but nope.


----------



## Welsh_Dragon

gismo1554 said:


> In Wales here too and didn't have to show anything. Mine wasn't done via letter but via telephone call from Doctors (AstraZeneca) and they just asked for name and date of birth so probably could have got someone to do mine for me. I did think they might need ID but nope.


I wonder whether the difference is because my appointment was at a mass vaccination centre. I presume you didn’t get the eight page appointment letter either? Rather than the usual one page Welsh/one page English format, it was mixed paragraph by paragraph.


----------



## gismo1554

Welsh_Dragon said:


> I wonder whether the difference is because my appointment was at a mass vaccination centre. I presume you didn’t get the eight page appointment letter either? Rather than the usual one page Welsh/one page English format, it was mixed paragraph by paragraph.



Nope thank god what a waste  yeah my parents had to take ID definitely and they got letters. The group 6 people (me and my sister both fell in here) didn't have to show any ID and were at a different location.


----------



## Ruttangel

So, Jet2 has suspended flights and holidays until 23rd June.
People also arguing about £150 Covid test on return? 
This summer feels like a complete mess at the minute


----------



## Lyndylou

We were booked DVC at Boardwalk  for 3 weeks from July 31st. I cancelled yesterday but now having serious remorse. We have a young man with LD and autism who tries but cant wear a mask for any length of time. Now I've read the governor of Orange county may dismiss the mandatory  masks from June. I realise Disney may keep their own rules and procedures but maybe I cancelled too early.


----------



## deno

Lyndylou said:


> I realise Disney may keep their own rules and procedures but maybe I cancelled too early.



I personally think you did the right thing. I remember when I cancelled mine for this year I had pangs of regret but I think the best bet at this point is 2022. I just don't think 2021 will be the experience we all know and love.


----------



## tennisfan

Ruttangel said:


> Well, not much of a reveal today was it!



Government always said they will make announcement about travelling on 12th April.  The bank holiday statement was about hairdressers, shops etc. to give the go ahead for them to reopen from the 12th


----------



## 2Tiggies

Lyndylou said:


> We were booked DVC at Boardwalk  for 3 weeks from July 31st. I cancelled yesterday but now having serious remorse. We have a young man with LD and autism who tries but cant wear a mask for any length of time. Now I've read the governor of Orange county may dismiss the mandatory  masks from June. I realise Disney may keep their own rules and procedures but maybe I cancelled too early.




I don't think you made a bad decision. It's so hot and humid in July and August, even those with no problems breathing will struggle at least somewhat with a mask. There's no way to know for sure how things will be a few months from now and you made the best decision you could with the information available at the time. You can always rebook and actually enjoy the countdown with your family when you know how to plan and what to expect. 

As a side note, there is no mask mandate in Florida at all. They mayor in Orange County is issuing letters to businesses he thinks aren't obeying his recommendations, but the letters are effectively powerless as the Governor of FL has declared that no fines or penalties can be imposed on any business or individual. Now on the realistic and practical side, each business has a right to make its own rules and if Disney makes it mandatory to comply with certain policies they have every right to deny access for anyone who doesn't do so. Personally, I'd keep any eye on Disney policies, rather than the what the county is doing right now as that will be a better indicator for you. 

Hoping to see travel open up this year though. The past year has been a long decade!


----------



## Plague

Lyndylou said:


> We have a young man with LD and autism who tries but cant wear a mask for any length of time.


You made the right decision. (We have an Asperger child - 35 yo now   ).
Disney have said masks will probably be a 'thing' till next year, so even travelling alone I'm not expecting to go this October. Spending 2-3 weeks with fabric clamped across my face does not a holiday make.


----------



## bex7583

Ruttangel said:


> So, Jet2 has suspended flights and holidays until 23rd June.
> People also arguing about £150 Covid test on return?
> This summer feels like a complete mess at the minute



I think one test at £150 would be acceptable , however our current rules require 3 tests to arrive back in the UK. One prior to flying and then you have to book a 2 test package on the gov. Website. 

Plus most destination need at least 1 test to enter especially if not vaccinated. 

Unless they either reduce the number of tests needed or lower the costs I will be cancelling all our plans for summer. 

Also if this new everybody doing 2 tests weekly , why can we not just use the results from these to travel?? Either the results are reliable or not


----------



## Plague

bex7583 said:


> Either the results are reliable or not


The free lateral flow ones are not really. They give about 1/1,000 false positive, so if you get a positive you should do it again, and they can miss a couple in a hundred infected, though I've seen higher numbers quoted too. Apparently they give better accuracy in people with symptoms ... which is not very helpful.

The more expensive PCR test is more reliable and is the one required for travel AFAIK.


----------



## bex7583

Plague said:


> The free lateral flow ones are not really. They give about 1/1,000 false positive, so if you get a positive you should do it again, and they can miss a couple in a hundred infected, though I've seen higher numbers quoted too. Apparently they give better accuracy in people with symptoms ... which is not very helpful.
> 
> The more expensive PCR test is more reliable and is the one required for travel AFAIK.



But the if they are not reliable then what's the point in the costs of trying to get everybody to do 2 tests a week ?

Some countries will accept cheaper tests for arrivals but the PCR ones for arrival back to UK. My partner just had to travel for work. Costs us £360 for 3 UK  tests and 95 euro for the one prior to flying home 

No way can we pay that X5 for our family holiday .


----------



## Plague

bex7583 said:


> then what's the point in the costs of trying to get everybody to do 2 tests a week ?


I haven't worked that out yet.
They were originally offered to school children (which is when that 1/1,000 bit back) and I think it's mainly a reassurance for those who feel at risk.
I doubt anything near 'everybody' will bother anyway.



bex7583 said:


> No way can we pay that X5 for our family holiday .


 Which may be part of the plan. If they could get away with it they would probably say "No foreign holidays for the rest of 2021". But that won't fly (sorry) so they will make it difficult and thus limit the numbers.

It's not game over yet - eg. Israel has just published data suggesting the SA variant can get past the Pfizer vaccine some of the time. We only need a SA++ variant to enter the UK and come October we are in lockdown 3 (or 4? ... I've lost count I think).


----------



## Ruttangel

tennisfan said:


> Government always said they will make announcement about travelling on 12th April.  The bank holiday statement was about hairdressers, shops etc. to give the go ahead for them to reopen from the 12th


It was leaked before 5th but Boris decided not to mention it even though he said he would.
The actual guidance was posted on 9th
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...amework-to-safely-reopen-international-travel


----------



## bex7583

I just wish we had some better updates!

I don't want to get too close to departure and loose my free cancellation options. I think it would be really unfair of them to "ok" holidays and then leave everybody in the awkward position of travel agents up and running as normal and lots of people then finding they can't easily refund/ switch as they are " choosing not to travel " if they can't afford/ not willing to fork out £300-400 p.p for tests !!

Even if I was willing to pay it , I just think the stress and anxiety of doing/ the results would ruin any enjoyment of the trip. 5 people doing multiple tests scares me what if one of them comes bk positive then what do you do ? Somebody stay behind and the rest of the family fly ? 

I just want to book last minute , with little thought and no planning and excitedly countdown 

I have booked some UK holidays as back ups as I wanted to do this incase prices went crazy. Really think at this point I might just cancel all my abroad bookings. It just no longer feels like a holiday. I do think travel will be possible for those willing to go. I just can't be bothered with the admin/ paperwork and one legged jumping through hoops to get there 

Watching vlogs and insta in Disney they last few months have felt so strange though, like apart from the masks life looked so normal compared to what we have been living in the UK !


----------



## JordanClark9

bex7583 said:


> Even if I was willing to pay it , I just think the stress and anxiety of doing/ the results would ruin any enjoyment of the trip. 5 people doing multiple tests scares me what if one of them comes bk positive then what do you do ? Somebody stay behind and the rest of the family fly ?


I hear ya. My plan is to work from home the week before going just to make sure nothing can make that test positive.


----------



## Plague

Good points I think.


bex7583 said:


> I don't want to get too close to departure and loose my free cancellation options.


As I said months ago - Holidays are like the stock markets at present so don't commit more than you can afford to lose.



bex7583 said:


> I do think travel will be possible for those willing to go.


It will be much like last year - risky. Plan on the rug being pulled out at any point.



bex7583 said:


> 5 people doing multiple tests scares me what if one of them comes bk positive then what do you do ? Somebody stay behind and the rest of the family fly ?


Unless things have changed it will be nobody goes anywhere. Close contacts of the testee (?) will have to self-isolate for _n_ days. (I think _n_ is usually 10 at present.)


----------



## Kate_45

With the rapid flow false positives are pretty uncommon. False negatives on the other hand are relatively high - leading you to ask "what's the point?" Well the point is to catch some and stop wide scale outbreaks. Even if just a fifth of asymptomatic people get spotted and taken out of circulation along with the associated contacts it helps. Key thing is it works best when people are at their most infectious - a day or two before symptoms start.

I've been testing regularly since Christmas. I didn't have enough faith in it to see my unvaccinated dad (in our bubble) during the height of the wave, but it makes me happy enough to go work with strangers as eventually with regular testing one LFT would throw up a positive between me and my colleagues if we were infectious.

The PCR is the gold standard, the pricey one. You couldn't mass test just in case at £150 per pop, but at £3.50 it's worth a shunt compared with the economic loss of pre-emptive isolation as an alternative.


----------



## bex7583

JordanClark9 said:


> I hear ya. My plan is to work from home the week before going just to make sure nothing can make that test positive.



Yes I work at home too, so i would feel confident about my result. Our accomodation is booked late July so I have teenagers who will be in school right up until a few days before we leave.  So risk of loosing a school bubble and one of them having to isolate from a contact can't imagine school authorising any time off so I could isolate them at home for a bit prior to leaving.  

It's just so rubbish . I would love to get there this summer as I think if we postponed it to next year my eldest probably won't want to come ( older awkward teen that thinks holiday with his mates will be more fun)


----------



## MichelinMan

Getting back to the original question, I reckon by August it will be possible to get to Florida. However, the hoops you will have to go through, and the experience when you get there, just won't make the holiday as enjoyable.

We were due to travel in July. I think by July it might be possible to go. But we just made the decision this week to postpone until next year now. Just starting to price up dates for next year now, but hotel availability is much reduced - can't find many off-site hotels that are allowing to book for July next year, for example. Disney prices are more expensive, so we will probably end up downgrading from our current Coronado Springs booking to Pop Century instead.

Finally, both PCR and lateral flow tests give false positives, and both roughly at the same frequency. But the PCR test is slightly better than the lateral flow tests at picking up asymptomatic people if the test is conducted by a trained person. But the if done by individuals, the lateral flow tests become much less reliable. However, there are indications that the lateral flow tests may pick up the infection earlier than the PCR tests, but not conclusive yet. And for symptomatic people, the lateral flow tests are highly reliable (98% from trials). I get access to a lot of testing data through my job, from thousands of offshore workers getting tested before going offshore to work every day. There are pros and cons for each test. But at the end of the day, they are only one barrier, which isn't fully reliable, like any barrier when it comes to heath and safety. The most effective measure is still that people should be self-isolating when they have symptoms, and there is lots of evidence that people aren't doing that. That is the one measure where we need to improve - only just over 50% of people are abiding by that rule.


----------



## Ruttangel

Just some thoughts as another week ticks over.
The lack of positivity from U.K. gov is quite telling.
They are even saying the vaccinations are having a limited impact and it’s the lockdown that has eased NHS pressure.
There are looking over at Chile where vaccination take up is very high but they are near intensive care capacity due to surge which is partly linked to that Brazil variant. They do use a different vaccine to us but our Gov are looking at this and are worried.

Does the US have an appetite to expose their country to international visitors any time in next 3-6 months?
if we assume 1st July start for travel then I think it will be in stages and as no test is 100% accurate then that only leaves quarantine as the best way to stop variants infiltrating and I think that could last the rest of the year.

Feeling pessimistic today, can you tell ! I‘m still hoping for a miracle!


----------



## MartinoHeat

I think the implication is it was the lockdown in the main that has caused the dramatic drop in cases and deaths. Much like it was in Lockdown 1 where we had no vaccines. Which makes sense because of how dramatic it was. It was a pretty stupid comment to make from Bojo.


----------



## Kate_45

Chile isn't just the strain or vaccine type. It got social too early with a false sense of security from a partially vaccinated population. 
Our vague "lockdowns" and current national mindset makes it a real possibility for us. Shame the gov are just saying it's inevitable though. They're the people who could have changed this.


----------



## Karebear

Ruttangel said:


> Does the US have an appetite to expose their country to international visitors any time in next 3-6 months?
> if we assume 1st July start for travel then I think it will be in stages and as no test is 100% accurate then that only leaves quarantine as the best way to stop variants infiltrating and I think that could last the rest of the year.
> Feeling pessimistic today, can you tell ! I‘m still hoping for a miracle!



Following as we (live in California) are schedule to go to London and France in July.  President Macron was on US television yesterday talking about vaccine passports for travel this summer beginning in May.  I am hopeful that means we can go, although he is just speaking about France at this point.  He was saying the passport would include vaccinated people as well as those that test negative.


----------



## gavvy

gismo1554 said:


> Nope thank god what a waste  yeah my parents had to take ID definitely and they got letters. The group 6 people (me and my sister both fell in here) didn't have to show any ID and were at a different location.



I think it depends on the health board and the centre.  I had a call for my Jab and went the same day, I was asked for my name on arrival and ID, but thereafter after only name which I thought odd as I would have thought they would check ID again before the jab went in but they didn't.

I know one centre where they have security in the car park checking letters and telling you where to park, seems a bit of an overkill


----------



## gavvy

I think it's too early to know what the testing will be for travel in Aug, everything is subject to change at the moment, there was walk that a flow test id ok if you are fully vaccinated then it has to be  PCR test etc.

The cost are coming down a PCR is £60 now, but that is till too much for a family.


----------



## bex7583

gavvy said:


> I think it's too early to know what the testing will be for travel in Aug, everything is subject to change at the moment, there was walk that a flow test id ok if you are fully vaccinated then it has to be  PCR test etc.
> 
> The cost are coming down a PCR is £60 now, but that is till too much for a family.



It's going in the right direction. I could cope and would be willing to budget for £60 p.p . Hopefully they also cut it down to only 2 tests per person required too one to depart and one to arrive.  

We have accomodation booked for late July which feels like it's creeping up fast. I might change to mid August and possibly keep you he kids off school that first week sept (yey school fines too)

We haven't actually booked flights but I keep checking prices / availability and seems there are options out there. We usually go indirect but I'm actually considered paying extra for direct as I believe you may need an extra test for your connecting country ?


----------



## JordanClark9

bex7583 said:


> We haven't actually booked flights but I keep checking prices / availability and seems there are options out there. We usually go indirect but I'm actually considered paying extra for direct as I believe you may need an extra test for your connecting country ?



At the moment the requirements for testing to enter USA is that you must have a test within the 3 days before your departure, and connecting flights don't need an additional test in between. So hopefully that rule sticks. Certainly something to keep an eye on that I've never even thought about though.

Right now my flights are booked connecting at Dublin, but have the option to change to direct from Manchester if I need to.


----------



## bex7583

JordanClark9 said:


> At the moment the requirements for testing to enter USA is that you must have a test within the 3 days before your departure, and connecting flights don't need an additional test in between. So hopefully that rule sticks. Certainly something to keep an eye on that I've never even thought about though.
> 
> Right now my flights are booked connecting at Dublin, but have the option to change to direct from Manchester if I need to.



Ooh I saw some good prices with a connection in Dublin then the others cheaper options were via Paris . I have never done the Dublin connection but heard it's good as you can clear your immigration. 

Have you done that route before ?

I usually like to pick the cheapest longest connection and turn it in to a mini break but think at the moment that is just over complicating the situation.


----------



## JordanClark9

bex7583 said:


> Ooh I saw some good prices with a connection in Dublin then the others cheaper options were via Paris . I have never done the Dublin connection but heard it's good as you can clear your immigration.
> 
> Have you done that route before ?
> 
> I usually like to pick the cheapest longest connection and turn it in to a mini break but think at the moment that is just over complicating the situation.



I've never went through Dublin before, but found that they have US pre-clearance in Dublin airport which will save a lot of hassle when you arrive in Orlando.


----------



## katytrott

I found a headline through my newsfeed but as I don’t have a subscription to this paper I can’t access it to read it. It was from the Times and the headline reads:

“Little hope of summer holiday to America as UK is placed on US “do not travel” COVID list”

The sub headline reads “The addition of Britain to the list could kill hopes for a US-UK air bridge in time for summer “

This is a list written up by the CDC, so nothing actually to do with the US borders and what the US government decide to do. Still, it doesn’t look good.

It’s dawned on me that the UK media has focused more on whether we’re allowed out of the country but not really much on how the rest of the world feels about us entering them - and in particular how the US feels about us!!

We’ve got an August trip booked like many on here and swing daily from we are going to we’re not going on a daily basis - today is a we’re not going sort of day!!


----------



## BadPinkTink

katytrott said:


> It’s dawned on me that the UK media has focused more on whether we’re allowed out of the country but not really much on how the rest of the world feels about us entering them - and in particular how the US feels about us!!



I think this has been very much overlooked.

This is the page which I check on a regualr basis
Travelers Prohibited from Entry to the United States

It was last updated February 19.

With specific exceptions, several Presidential proclamations suspend and limit entry into the United States, as immigrants or nonimmigrants, of noncitizens who were physically present within the following countries during the 14-day period preceding their entry or attempted entry into the United States. For a full list of exceptions, please refer to the relevant proclamations in the links below.


China
Iran
European Schengen area (Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Monaco, San Marino, Vatican City)
*United Kingdom (England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland)*
Republic of Ireland
Brazil
South Africa
I also check this page Official White House Website - The Presidential Executive Order Banning Travel From UK, Ireland, Europe and Other Countries

This was last updated on January 25 2021. Until UK, Ireland and other countries are removed from this Presidential Executive Order, we can not enter USA.


----------



## katytrott

BadPinkTink said:


> I think this has been very much overlooked.
> 
> This is the page which I check on a regualr basis
> Travelers Prohibited from Entry to the United States
> 
> It was last updated February 19.
> 
> With specific exceptions, several Presidential proclamations suspend and limit entry into the United States, as immigrants or nonimmigrants, of noncitizens who were physically present within the following countries during the 14-day period preceding their entry or attempted entry into the United States. For a full list of exceptions, please refer to the relevant proclamations in the links below.
> 
> 
> China
> Iran
> European Schengen area (Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Monaco, San Marino, Vatican City)
> *United Kingdom (England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland)*
> Republic of Ireland
> Brazil
> South Africa
> I also check this page Official White House Website - The Presidential Executive Order Banning Travel From UK, Ireland, Europe and Other Countries
> 
> This was last updated on January 25 2021. Until UK, Ireland and other countries are removed from this Presidential Executive Order, we can not enter USA.



Thank you, some useful links here - I was hunting for something like this. 

The only official information is what is in place right now - doesn’t help knowing what to do with our holidays later in the year and obviously we have to make decisions now. So frustrating!! The only info we are getting for summer is based on predictions by the media really, or leaked info which could and does change.


----------



## Kate_45

It's so frustrating because people have been going back and forth throughout. I mean Chris Evans came over just to visit his girlfriend. I assumed he had been filming over here when there were pictures but then hear him say in a podcast that he hadn't been - just had a couple of "meetings." Because they can't happen over zoom right?

I'm not saying that travel should be allowed this is more frustration at travel bans not being adhered to. People saying on other threads about not being able to go outside their area in Scotland, whilst my cousins flew up for a funeral (allowed) on a full plane and were not asked once about the reason for their travel. All these diligent people not going to costco whilst others are happily going back and forth between capitals (and then probably going to costco at the weekend)

It's the whole cummings thing again. The rules only apply to those stupid enough to follow them. A lack of social conscience that the current government seems to want to cultivate. Sorry. I've gone off topic here. I hope at some point we get to go to disneyworld. I want to go to Typhoon Lagoon before the end of 2022.


----------



## Kate_45

Or even 2023. But definitely by then please


----------



## tinkerbell1991

This is the latest in the Daily Mail. Obviously rumours and speculation at the moment but still, we can hope.


----------



## Plague

This Reuters article may be helpful:
U.S. adds 116 countries to its ‘Do Not Travel’ advisory list

In a nutshell this is the US equivalent of our traffic light system - It's the countries where they would rather US citizens didn't go at present.
If they say they don't want US citizens coming here (and then going back) they are unlikely to want 'us' going there.

The last paragraph is also very telling:
"_Earlier this month, the CDC said fully vaccinated people could safely travel within the United States at "low risk," but its director, Rochelle Walensky, discouraged Americans from doing so because of high coronavirus cases nationwide._"
So they'd rather Americans didn't even travel within the USA ...

Then there's the Indian variant - or the first one anyway


----------



## livbeatles

The UK has been level 4 on the CDC map since last spring/summer; it isn't a new or recent change.  For my work we have to fill out a form for our US partner that asks if the person involved (in our work) has recently travelled to a level 4 country, and I was always having to write 'they live in one' on it.


----------



## Tash87

Genuine question and sorry if I've missed it or just being dumb but why are we (possibly) on the "do not travel" list?


----------



## katytrott

Tash87 said:


> Genuine question and sorry if I've missed it or just being dumb but why are we (possibly) on the "do not travel" list?



Not a dumb question - we would all like to know! As livbeatles has said, it goes back to last year when our numbers skyrocketed. I’m just hoping that it’s going to be updated to reflect our numbers now. The news that came out yesterday that Biden will be visiting here in June gives me hope that it will. 

I did read an article that said that unlike countries/islands like Greece, Caribbean etc, the USA doesn’t rely on overseas tourism as it has a flourishing domestic tourism - thats why there isn’t a rush to get borders open again.


----------



## Plague

Tash87 said:


> Genuine question and sorry if I've missed it or just being dumb


There are no dumb questions.



katytrott said:


> the USA doesn’t rely on overseas tourism as it has a flourishing domestic tourism


Yes, they are (able to be) pretty much self-contained in most aspects.

Given the volatile nature of outbreaks around the world (India in meltdown having said it was all over just a couple of months ago; Australia and NZ opening a 'travel bubble' a few days ago and today a new outbreak in Aus) no country is likely to be opening up readily unless there is serious money at stake as @katytrott says.
Even the reopening of Disneyland (Anaheim) is apparently only for CA residents for the time being.

It's all a bit depressing


----------



## Plague

Just looking at some stats this evening.
For 7 day average US shows 60,000 new cases daily, UK 2,500. So US is 24x more, but population is only 6x ours, so they have 4x the infection rate/head than we have.
From one POV that makes us look like a low risk to allow visiting ... but from another POV they are not in as good a place as the UK and so would want to get their own rates much lower before opening borders.

It's complicated ... and political


----------



## McCrae

Orlando airport advised that first flights from the U.K. projected by the airlInes is June. Obviously subject to US Govt announcement.


----------



## bex7583

Plague said:


> Just looking at some stats this evening.
> For 7 day average US shows 60,000 new cases daily, UK 2,500. So US is 24x more, but population is only 6x ours, so they have 4x the infection rate/head than we have.
> From one POV that makes us look like a low risk to allow visiting ... but from another POV they are not in as good a place as the UK and so would want to get their own rates much lower before opening borders.
> 
> It's complicated ... and political



And surely with USA  rates so much higher than ours there will likely be quarantine required upon return


----------



## Plague

bex7583 said:


> And surely with USA  rates so much higher than ours there will likely be quarantine required upon return


Hard to say. Although high compared to us, in global terms they (US) may have quite low rates, and they are progressing well with vaccinations. I've seen one suggestion they will go on the green list - whenever this system eventually materialises.


----------



## Kate_45

I have a feeling the list will have more to do with meetings and deals than specific numbers :-(


----------



## Plague

I take no conclusion from this Reuters article but it's quite interesting and possibly relevant (the US is mentioned) information about where things might go, or not, and some of the difficulties. (5 min read)
Analysis-Viable plan or security theatre? Europe embraces digital health pass


----------



## Welsh_Dragon

Does anyone still have an August 2021 trip booked? Anyone earlier than that?


----------



## MichelinMan

Welsh_Dragon said:


> Does anyone still have an August 2021 trip booked? Anyone earlier than that?


Moved my July 2021 trip to July 2022 last week. I think it might well have still been feasible, but it just wouldn't have been the same. One benefit is that Tron and the Guardians coasters might be up and running by then maybe. Prices are a lot higher though, and I've downgraded from CS to POP. Plus staying 2 less nights on-site at Disney, and snuck in a few days at Cabana Bay instead, which I've always fancied staying at.


----------



## Thegoatfeeder

Welsh_Dragon said:


> Does anyone still have an August 2021 trip booked? Anyone earlier than that?



We still have our August/September trip and are somewhat confident, we should be fully vaccinated by early July and hoping for a green traffic light.....


----------



## chrish2

My growing concern over the last few weeks has been a potential bottoming out of the US vaccination program and possible impact this is going to have for travel to the USA. 

At the press conference last week a very telling slide was shared showing just how much the take up has been in England for the age bands currently invited. 


Contrast this at a glance with the USA. They don't look like they are "topping out" anywhere near full bars to me.


I've started to see it having some press coverage this weekend with the New York Times headline "Reaching ‘Herd Immunity’ Is Unlikely in the U.S., Experts Now Believe".


----------



## Kate_45

You have to remember though as you go down in age categories you increase the proportion of people who have already had the vaccine for other reasons. It isn't completely clear whether that graph took that into account or just went by the response to the general age letters/texts.

Also the big drop off is in the very last age category only. Perhaps on the 17th of April the vaccination programme wasn't as far along with their 45+ invitations as they liked to claim? I mean it only just went down to 42 yrs being able to book on the website and I knew people in their late 70s waiting for their vaccine because of inefficiencies in their area when the official line was that all over 70s had been offered the jab.

I mean there might be a future UK drop off in younger people taking up the vaccine as there appears to be in the USA but I get really angry about the government spending money on ad campaigns to encourage younger people to take up the vaccine when they could instead spend that money on speeding up the roll out so those young people actually could. I would love to get vaccinated but can't yet. I'm fine with it when we're letting the more vulnerable be vaccinated first but it is galling to be waiting patiently whilst getting told off at at the same time.


----------



## Kate_45

Sorry @chrish2 , I completely misread your post. Wasn't paying attention, got distracted by the pretty graph. You were saying how high the uk take up was compared to USA, not suggesting that we might follow their take up pattern. Apologies


----------



## bex7583

We had a booking late July Aug. I have just cancelled earlier this week . I am still open to grabbing something last minute .but the whole thing was stressing me out and that's a rubbish way to start the holiday . 

Plus our business / income has been reduced and I already had less spending money saved than I wanted so didn't want to be stuck in the position of needing and extra £1000+ for covid tests . None of us r vaccinated yet . I know they are pushing for cheaper testing  so hopefully once the official travel rules and quarantine are announced I can rebudget and hopefully grab a last min bargain Oct / Nov time


----------



## scottishgirl1

I cancelled our late August booking for same reason, decided to go for last minute if things improved. Still just waiting on last deposit back, hopefully this week! We are in Ireland and dont think our 18 year old will be vaccinated in time and it is too stressful for that amount of money to have 5 people testing with potentially 3 of them unvaccinated. Never mind the stress of actually travelling whilst unvaccinated or being called for vaccination at that time. Might try a week in Europe early September and also have a deposit down for Xmas in Florida in case


----------



## MichelinMan

So the US isn't one of the countries on the green list of countries announced today - that means the earliest they could get added is 7 June. Glad I moved my July trip now.


----------



## bavarian princess

I got an email from Floridatix basically saying  a Florida holiday is still ‚very much on the cards‘ for this year. Do they have the gift of foresight?
I guess we will find out eventually


----------



## BadPinkTink

Until the USA Presidential Executive Order which bans non essential travel of UK citizens into USA is lifted, The USA will not be on The UK green list.

Proclamation on the Suspension of Entry as Immigrants and Non-Immigrants of Certain Additional Persons Who Pose a Risk of Transmitting Coronavirus Disease

Last Update 25th January 2021

The entry into the United States, as immigrants or nonimmigrants, of noncitizens who were physically present within the Schengen Area, *the United Kingdom* (excluding overseas territories outside of Europe), the Republic of Ireland, and the Federative Republic of Brazil during the 14-day period preceding their entry or attempted entry into the United States, is hereby suspended


----------



## Plague

BadPinkTink said:


> Until the USA Presidential Executive Order which bans non essential travel of UK citizens into USA is lifted, The USA will not be on The UK green list.


Sorry but that's not correct.
The list is purely those countries you won't need to do quarantine on return, based on their infection rates (and possibly variants there). It doesn't mean you will be able to visit them.
Australia and NZ are on the list and I'm pretty sure they won't let us in at present.

Even when the PEO is lifted the USA might still not be on our green list.


----------



## Welsh_Dragon

The green list is very odd and I am puzzled by the rationale (or lack of it). I wonder what Wales will do.


----------



## cliveywolves

The US does need to be on our green list to travel for leisure once the PEO is lifted in the US we can travel after the 17th May , but subject to Amber conditions in the UK,


----------



## cliveywolves

The green list tonight is just a very small starting point, I still believe the UK government does not want us travelling anywhere in the world until ALL the Uk adult
population has at least 1 Covid vaccine, which makes total sense to me, one travel expert said he expected less countries on this green list so he believes it’s a great starting point for us all !!


----------



## Plague

Welsh_Dragon said:


> The green list is very odd and I am puzzled by the rationale (or lack of it). I wonder what Wales will do.


It's just a symptom of the complete lack of international agreement about travel.
Every country will set it's own rules and where they mesh with another country's ... Yay! (If it's somewhere you want to go of course.)

As to the four 'nations' of the UK each setting their own rules ... er ...  
Presumably if any other country has a 'list' each of our four would be separately rated ... which could get very interesting.


----------



## Kate_45

I love the green list!
All those Atlantic islands you can only get to by boat from South Africa, The Falklands which costs just £2222 per person from Brieze Norton, various countries who will definitely not let us in this year and Gibraltar.

It's the cleverest thing the current government has done.


----------



## nursejackie

Even if the US moves to green and ESTA is reinstated the constant fear of things changing at a moment's notice bothers me too much to book at the moment. What if the US decides we must quarantine on arrival? Holiday over. What if the UK government changes the rules during our trip and i have to quarantine on return? I have to take it as unpaid leave or use even more annual leave. As desperate as i am to go abroad, i fear another year of staycations.


----------



## gismo1554

Welsh_Dragon said:


> The green list is very odd and I am puzzled by the rationale (or lack of it). I wonder what Wales will do.



We are just getting around doing anything by not opening Cardiff airport. Means we don't have to set any rules at all on travel


----------



## Welsh_Dragon

gismo1554 said:


> We are just getting around doing anything by not opening Cardiff airport. Means we don't have to set any rules at all on travel


There are aeroplanes flying in and out of Cardiff airport. An awful lot of BA aeroplanes seem to be parked there.


----------



## JordanClark9

nursejackie said:


> Even if the US moves to green and ESTA is reinstated the constant fear of things changing at a moment's notice bothers me too much to book at the moment. What if the US decides we must quarantine on arrival? Holiday over. What if the UK government changes the rules during our trip and i have to quarantine on return? I have to take it as unpaid leave or use even more annual leave. As desperate as i am to go abroad, i fear another year of staycations.


The quarantine on arrival in US would be a deal breaker, but UK gov have said that countries won't all of a sudden change category and that there will be watchlists available of countries in danger of changing from green to amber etc. so would have at least a few weeks of warning.


----------



## gismo1554

Welsh_Dragon said:


> There are aeroplanes flying in and out of Cardiff airport. An awful lot of BA aeroplanes seem to be parked there.



The airport itself isn't open though from my understanding. They may well be using the airport to store planes and or for cargo but passenger travel isn't open


----------



## Welsh_Dragon

gismo1554 said:


> The airport itself isn't open though from my understanding. They may well be using the airport to store planes and or for cargo but passenger travel isn't open


I understand that there are still ‘essential’ /business flights leaving, particularly to Amsterdam and various Spanish airports.


----------



## gismo1554

Welsh_Dragon said:


> I understand that there are still ‘essential’ /business flights leaving, particularly to Amsterdam and various Spanish airports.



Fair enough but Wales Online definitely claimed it was closed  My source of info is very skewed as you can tell! Last week they published something saying that the airport wasn't reopening and that this was how Mark D was controlling international travel so I just took it as read


----------



## nursejackie

JordanClark9 said:


> The quarantine on arrival in US would be a deal breaker, but UK gov have said that countries won't all of a sudden change category and that there will be watchlists available of countries in danger of changing from green to amber etc. so would have at least a few weeks of warning.


Yes I did read that, but they also put in a caveat as follows:

The government warns it will not ‘hesitate to act immediately should data show countries’ risk ratings have changed’ meaning travellers could also face disruption this year.

This gives them the option of changing the status at short notice, so it's still too risky for me sadly. I should have visited twice this year, so it's devastating for both to be cancelled.  April 2022 is our next planned date, fingers crossed.


----------



## Welsh_Dragon

gismo1554 said:


> Fair enough but Wales Online definitely claimed it was closed  My source of info is very skewed as you can tell! Last week they published something saying that the airport wasn't reopening and that this was how Mark D was controlling international travel so I just took it as read


https://www.cardiff-airport.com/live-flight-information/arrivals/

Sometimes.... a lot of the time, I worry about the standard of journalism in the U.K.  Thank goodness for The Week.


----------



## gismo1554

Welsh_Dragon said:


> https://www.cardiff-airport.com/live-flight-information/arrivals/
> 
> Sometimes.... a lot of the time, I worry about the standard of journalism in the U.K.  Thank goodness for The Week.



I know  I should never trust them on these things


----------



## Plague

This is perhaps of interest to this thread (BBC News item today - 12-May):
On The Beach pulls all summer holidays from sale

In a nutshell (quotes from the above):
"_On The Beach, one of the biggest UK online travel agents, said it won't be selling any holidays for June, July and August due to "continuing uncertainty around international leisure travel"._"
"_By contrast, EasyJet and Tui will begin offering holidays to countries classified as amber, despite government advice remaining not to travel for leisure._"
And On The Beach again:
_"Unlike many of our competitors, we have no interest in selling holidays that are unlikely to happen, as our business model enables us to put customers first, rather than needing to get cash in the door to contribute to high fixed costs, and offering refunds in the form of a voucher when holidays get cancelled."_

I've never heard of OTB but the disparity of attitudes does reinforce my opinion that many travel companies/airlines are just desperate to take our money on a wish and a prayer to bolster their cashflow.

Still no idea about going in August, though I think the USA may be a better bet than much of Europe.


----------



## Ruttangel

Plague said:


> This is perhaps of interest to this thread (BBC News item today - 12-May):
> On The Beach pulls all summer holidays from sale
> 
> In a nutshell (quotes from the above):
> "_On The Beach, one of the biggest UK online travel agents, said it won't be selling any holidays for June, July and August due to "continuing uncertainty around international leisure travel"._"
> "_By contrast, EasyJet and Tui will begin offering holidays to countries classified as amber, despite government advice remaining not to travel for leisure._"
> And On The Beach again:
> _"Unlike many of our competitors, we have no interest in selling holidays that are unlikely to happen, as our business model enables us to put customers first, rather than needing to get cash in the door to contribute to high fixed costs, and offering refunds in the form of a voucher when holidays get cancelled."_
> 
> I've never heard of OTB but the disparity of attitudes does reinforce my opinion that many travel companies/airlines are just desperate to take our money on a wish and a prayer to bolster their cashflow.
> 
> Still no idea about going in August, though I think the USA may be a better bet than much of Europe.


Yeah, big fly in the ointment is the Indian variant....just heard of a lot of cases tracked to a bar a few miles from me, under 25’s getting it and they aren’t vaccinated yet


----------



## Plague

Ruttangel said:


> Yeah, big fly in the ointment is the Indian variant....just heard of a lot of cases tracked to a bar a few miles from me, under 25’s getting it and they aren’t vaccinated yet


Bolton by any chance? (It was on the news today as an Indian variant hotspot, which wasn't a big surprise - to me at least).

From what I've read the current I.V. doesn't appear to be any worse than the Kent variant - more infectious than 'original' Covid but not significantly more dangerous or able to evade vaccines. My bigger concern is that with 300-400,000 cases a day India may well produce one or more more problematic variants in the coming weeks. They really need to lockdown, though stable door/horse/etc comes to mind.


----------



## Ruttangel

Plague said:


> Bolton by any chance? (It was on the news today as an Indian variant hotspot, which wasn't a big surprise - to me at least).
> 
> From what I've read the current I.V. doesn't appear to be any worse than the Kent variant - more infectious than 'original' Covid but not significantly more dangerous or able to evade vaccines. My bigger concern is that with 300-400,000 cases a day India may well produce one or more more problematic variants in the coming weeks. They really need to lockdown, though stable door/horse/etc comes to mind.


Tynemouth.......I agree not that it’s deadlier but higher cases always a cause for concern


----------



## MartinoHeat

Plague said:


> Bolton by any chance? (It was on the news today as an Indian variant hotspot, which wasn't a big surprise - to me at least).
> 
> From what I've read the current I.V. doesn't appear to be any worse than the Kent variant - more infectious than 'original' Covid but not significantly more dangerous or able to evade vaccines. My bigger concern is that with 300-400,000 cases a day India may well produce one or more more problematic variants in the coming weeks. They really need to lockdown, though stable door/horse/etc comes to mind.



https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/india/Case in india do thankfully seem to be coming down slowly.


----------



## Kate_45

Kent caused a lot of trouble though, most people I know who work for NHS got it again. Even if asymptomatic they had to isolate, (plus close contacts) which made all the hospitals short staffed again. This isn't over until it's over for most of the world unfortunately. 
Though obviously fewer people dying in the UK is amazing and we're very lucky to be in a position where we can start thinking of wider implications.


----------



## Plague

MartinoHeat said:


> Case in india do thankfully seem to be coming down slowly.


I'm not convinced yet. The virus has moved out into the countryside where facilities and reporting are much thinner on the ground than in the cities (not that the latter are great). The official numbers may be falling but the actuals could still be going the other way.


----------



## Plague

Ruttangel said:


> Yeah, big fly in the ointment is the Indian variant....


Boris' chat tonight is not encouraging 

It means it's less likely the US will open up for us if nothing else.


----------



## Ruttangel

Plague said:


> Boris' chat tonight is not encouraging
> 
> It means it's less likely the US will open up for us if nothing else.


Odds are stacking up a bit for the summer now


----------



## Ruttangel

Plague said:


> Boris' chat tonight is not encouraging
> 
> It means it's less likely the US will open up for us if nothing else.


Was ready to cancel last night......then see mask mandate updated to just indoors and changed my mind again


----------



## tinkerbell1991

Ruttangel said:


> Was ready to cancel last night......then see mask mandate updated to just indoors and changed my mind again


Just remember masks rules apply to queues too even those outdoors but it's still progress


----------



## Plague

tinkerbell1991 said:


> Just remember masks rules apply to queues too even those outdoors but it's still progress


It's amazing. Was expecting it to be a few weeks before Disney moved on the new CDC recommendations. 

Hope is springing ... down boy - there's still that little thing about actually getting into the country.


----------



## McCrae

BA flights to Orlando are scheduled to resume on June 14th. Source BA.


----------



## Thegoatfeeder

Biden is in the UK in early June I believe for a G12 summit in Cornwall, I read Simon Calder (who is getting so much work out of this COVID thing!) saying he thought there was a reasonable chance of that trip bringing some sort of unilateral travel announcement between the 2 countries.

Purely speculation, but......


----------



## Leagill

I had a trip booked with Tui for 12th June that just got cancelled.. but fingers crossed for good news from the Summit then as I also have a trip booked for sept 7th! Hopefully we can all get back there soon enough, especially as restrictions are easing nicely now so it will be almost like old times!


----------



## McCrae

BA flights to Orlando have been pushed back from restarting June the 14th to July 5th.


----------



## Jolanda40

I was wondering something, I live in the Netherlands and I always like to read along with you. I wonder if you have the same dilemma as me. I have 2 children. What if, they are not vaccinated but they expect for example, a negative test result for children next year. I mean this isn't over just yet. And then you have to have your children tested 1 or 2 days in advance. Suppose the test suddenly shows that they have covid, that is possible because children do not always get sick from it, but they can carry it with them. And then, you are there 2 days or worse 1 day in advance. expensive vacation gone.... and a lot off money. 
don't you worry about that?


----------



## Woodview

Jolanda40 said:


> I was wondering something, I live in the Netherlands and I always like to read along with you. I wonder if you have the same dilemma as me. I have 2 children. What if, they are not vaccinated but they expect for example, a negative test result for children next year. I mean this isn't over just yet. And then you have to have your children tested 1 or 2 days in advance. Suppose the test suddenly shows that they have covid, that is possible because children do not always get sick from it, but they can carry it with them. And then, you are there 2 days or worse 1 day in advance. expensive vacation gone.... and a lot off money.
> don't you worry about that?



   My advice  would be    Forget    Orlando  for  2021        ( go for  2022 )

     This year    take a trip      to    De Efteling   ....     Toverland   .....      & others in The Netherlands 

             Kalkar     on the Rhine ( Near   Goch )   & others in Germany   

     Parc Astrix       Near  Paris    &   Disney  in Paris


----------



## nursejackie

Jolanda40 said:


> I was wondering something, I live in the Netherlands and I always like to read along with you. I wonder if you have the same dilemma as me. I have 2 children. What if, they are not vaccinated but they expect for example, a negative test result for children next year. I mean this isn't over just yet. And then you have to have your children tested 1 or 2 days in advance. Suppose the test suddenly shows that they have covid, that is possible because children do not always get sick from it, but they can carry it with them. And then, you are there 2 days or worse 1 day in advance. expensive vacation gone.... and a lot off money.
> don't you worry about that?


This is the reason we are not going abroad this year, well to be precise its another reason on top of many others, such as countries moving between green and amber (i cannot isolate on return, we have been warned by work), country being visited changing rules for arriving UK visitors, too many disappointments last year. I could go on. 
I realise these may be surmountable for others, but not for me sadly.


----------



## Jolanda40

yes, we don't plan on going until 2022 anyway. but America has always been stricter than other countries with travel. I just think it won't just be gone next summer.

I agree with you nursejackie and woodview

we are still keeping our fingers crossed that we can go to Disneyland paris at least this year.


----------



## disneyholic family

short answer:  nope

we're planning on july, 2022.

crazy world


----------



## JordanClark9

I don't see any reason for USA not to be on the UK green list by August if not earlier as vaccination numbers are very similar, but the final hurdle will be USA allowing travel into the country. I have my fingers crossed for myself for September and don't see why this wouldn't be in place by August. Just have to sit tight and wait for news I guess.


----------



## cliveywolves

Very much the same feelings now, data , vaccinated % are pointed in the right direction for both countries, I’ve said for months Biden & Boris will hopefully bash out a bi lateral agreement at the G7 next week.


----------



## Ruttangel

cliveywolves said:


> Very much the same feelings now, data , vaccinated % are pointed in the right direction for both countries, I’ve said for months Biden & Boris will hopefully bash out a bi lateral agreement at the G7 next week.


The problem if I'm USA is that UK is allowing a lot more international mixing, it would really be opening up its borders to whoever UK is opening up to as well. I just don't think US wants those floodgates. If it does open the testing will be very stringent and probably costing average travelling family out.
I'm saying this as someone who has tickets, flights and accommodation all booked separately for end of Aug for 2 weeks and need to decide by mid July.

I just can't see it being a grand free for all opening, it'll be very cautious if at all


----------



## PaulaSB12

I had a holiday booked for 29th august but hav moved it to next year I really don’t think it’s going to happen because
A this new variant may keep us out of usa
B I think they want us to spend in this country not spend it else where


----------



## Blueslegend

PaulaSB12 said:


> I had a holiday booked for 29th august but hav moved it to next year I really don’t think it’s going to happen because
> A this new variant may keep us out of usa
> B I think they want us to spend in this country not spend it else where



100% agree that they (UK) would like us to staycation and spend money here in this dump of a Country. Personally had enough of the unfounded restrictions and I will travel as soon as the US lets me in. I simply do not understand why vaccinated people are treated the same as unvaccinated. I do not understand why the minority dictate to the majority. At what stage will they understand that discrimination works both ways. Sorry....had to rant.


----------



## csimon

Blueslegend said:


> I simply do not understand why vaccinated people are treated the same as unvaccinated. I do not understand why the minority dictate to the majority. At what stage will they understand that discrimination works both ways. Sorry....had to rant.


This thing is quite new...we're still learning about it and how to react to it. Vaccinations don't prevent you getting it or passing it on, so restrictions on fully vaccinated people are there to protect the unvaccinated. It's not discrimination as the only thing that differentiates the two groups are that fully vaccinated people are less likely to become seriously ill thmselves. Doesn't prevent them passing it on and killing others and that's what the restrictions are trying to prevent. In that respect there is no difference between the two groups and they're being treated the same, they both pass the virus on and kill others. Until the majority are vaccinated and more details and more data come to light, we are all still in a volatile position.

You are aware that people who just couldn't wait to fly out to Portugal are now having trouble getting back because the situation changed while they were away. And this just doesn't affect them, the situation is causing chaos for others. Just hold tight for the moment until things are more stable. We're in a much better position than a year ago, indeed from a couple of months ago. But cases are rising again and only half the population are fully vaccinated. We just don't know what's going to happen in the next few weeks/months, but I'm sure once things are stable then we'll be able to fly out to the USA again.

I lost my mother to covid in February. In a care home, she went almost a whole year without getting it. I'd been on tenterhooks the whole time. But then she caught it from a staff member in the first week of January, who just hadn't been able to wait to mix with others over Christmas just because they could. It's not about you, it's about others.


----------



## Blueslegend

csimon said:


> This thing is quite new...we're still learning about it and how to react to it. Vaccinations don't prevent you getting it or passing it on, so restrictions on fully vaccinated people are there to protect the unvaccinated. It's not discrimination as the only thing that differentiates the two groups are that fully vaccinated people are less likely to become seriously ill thmselves. Doesn't prevent them passing it on and killing others and that's what the restrictions are trying to prevent. In that respect there is no difference between the two groups and they're being treated the same. Until the majority are vaccinated and more details and more data come to light, we are all still in a volatile position.
> 
> You are aware that people who just couldn't wait to fly out to Portugal are now having trouble getting back because the situation changed while they were away. And this just doesn't affect them, the situation is causing chaos for others. Just hold tight for the moment until things are more stable. We're in a much better position than a year ago, indeed from a couple of months ago. But cases are rising again and only half the population are fully vaccinated. We just don't know what's going to happen in the next few weeks/months, but I'm sure once things are stable then we'll be able to fly out to the USA again.
> 
> I lost my mother to covid in February. In a care home, she went almost a whole year without getting it. I'd been on tenterhooks the whole time. But then she caught it from a staff member in the first week of January, who just hadn't been able to wait to mix with others over Christmas just because they could. It's not about you, it's about others.


Firstly I am sorry for your loss.

You must understand that we have to live with this. It isn’t going away. As you say we don’t know what is going to happen. We don’t know what the future holds. However more people died yesterday of Malaria. More people died crossing the road. About time we got on with life. This is a little off topic so best we focus on something to look forward to. Apologies.


----------



## jackieleanne

Cancelled our August trip now, got fed up with the uncertainty and how the government is behaving. 

We got another flight voucher for this trip that's been rescheduled 4 times and will book again for end of April into May once the flights are availble. 

Used our banked DVC points along with current use year to get one week club level at AKL in a one bed villa and the other week at Yacht club on the Disney UK booking offer. Tentatively booked Madrid hotel on free cancellation and pay at villa.


----------



## Thegoatfeeder

I’m waiting on the G7 and Biden sitting down with Johnson next week, if nothing is announced as part of that I’ll be cancelling and banking points sadly.


----------



## Ruttangel

Rather a strange announcement today regarding US reducing travel restrictions for 61 countries but not UK
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57403216


----------



## BadPinkTink

Ruttangel said:


> Rather a strange announcement today regarding US reducing travel restrictions for 61 countries but not UK
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-57403216



Basically nothing changes for European tourists wanting to go to USA. All this means, is that American tourists can go to more countries. 

Until UK and European countries are removed from this list Travelers Prohibited from Entry to the United States no one from UK, Ireland and other European can go to Walt Disney World or Disneyland California


----------



## Ruttangel

BadPinkTink said:


> Basically nothing changes for European tourists wanting to go to USA. All this means, is that American tourists can go to more countries.
> 
> Until UK and European countries are removed from this list Travelers Prohibited from Entry to the United States no one from UK, Ireland and other European can go to Walt Disney World or Disneyland California


I appreciate that, it was just odd that France on there with 20% vaccinated population and we weren't with 40%.
Could indicate a separate agreement is coming or that UK seen as greater risk? Just seemed strange logic to me


----------



## Tony

Ruttangel said:


> I appreciate that, it was just odd that France on there with 20% vaccinated population and we weren't with 40%.
> Could indicate a separate agreement is coming or that UK seen as greater risk? Just seemed strange logic to me



It's yet more really bad journalism from the BBC. Yesterday UK was at level 3, whilst France was at level 4 for outbound travel from the US. The CDC changed the threshold they use for this categorisation, which meant that France was downgraded into level 3. This update was never about who they let into the US, just where they warn their own about avoiding.


----------



## Plague

I think there may be a financial logic behind our government's actions such that they may not be even pressing the USA to lift the ban on us going there, and indeed keeping a firm lid on any travel abroad.
The logic would be that we are in a financial mess, and UK businesses are in a hole too, so any money spent abroad is a waste. Far better to keep people 'contained' in the UK to spend that money here thus helping UK businesses and via them putting tax money back into our coffers.

Yes, airports and airlines will suffer, but although vocal I suspect they are less than half the spend on most foreign holidays, so on balance the govt may choose to let them take a bit more pain in favour of local businesses.


----------



## gismo1554

Plague said:


> I think there may be a financial logic behind our government's actions such that they may not be even pressing the USA to lift the ban on us going there, and indeed keeping a firm lid on any travel abroad.
> The logic would be that we are in a financial mess, and UK businesses are in a hole too, so any money spent abroad is a waste. Far better to keep people 'contained' in the UK to spend that money here thus helping UK businesses and via them putting tax money back into our coffers.
> 
> Yes, airports and airlines will suffer, but although vocal I suspect they are less than half the spend on most foreign holidays, so on balance the govt may choose to let them take a bit more pain in favour of local businesses.



This has been my theory for awhile. Keep the money in the country by discouraging as much travel as possible.


----------



## Tony

I've long given up any belief that the government have a clue what they're doing when it comes to managing travel during COVID. They've done some things right, but certainly not this.

This is a bit tongue in cheek, but bear with me...

The problem with the spend money at home argument is there are 730,000 hotel rooms  (2011 data, the number will have gone up a bit) in the UK, but 11.5 million school kids. That means everyone can take a two and a half night break during the six week summer holiday (rounding out on the basis that although many families have more than one child, they'll also need more than one room). You'd also have to ban travel by anyone who doesn't have a kid in school. My thoughts and prayers to whoever gets the Travelodge between the pig farm and the cement works on the side of the A19...


----------



## Karandak

My original trip was booked for October 2020. It got cancelled June 2020 and rebooked for August 2021….who knew we’d still be in this position 14 months later.

if it wasn’t already booked I wouldn’t be even contemplating going anywhere this year, but I really don’t want to have to rearrange it again. We bought all our park tickets (disney, universal etc) 2 months before the world went crazy….and the dates on those have only been extended to the end of this year. We wouldn’t be able to rebook for this year…. it’s just a nightmare of uncertainty for everyone! 

Me and my partner are fully vaccinated, his kids aren’t as they under 18/under 10.


----------



## JordanClark9

Karandak said:


> My original trip was booked for October 2020. It got cancelled June 2020 and rebooked for August 2021….who knew we’d still be in this position 14 months later.
> 
> if it wasn’t already booked I wouldn’t be even contemplating going anywhere this year, but I really don’t want to have to rearrange it again. We bought all our park tickets (disney, universal etc) 2 months before the world went crazy….and the dates on those have only been extended to the end of this year. We wouldn’t be able to rebook for this year…. it’s just a nightmare of uncertainty for everyone!
> 
> Me and my partner are fully vaccinated, his kids aren’t as they under 18/under 10.


We're in the same position as you. I've seen some folks mentioning that you can contact Disney and they will extend  your tickets into the next year so long as you cover the difference between the new ticket price. Haven't looked into it myself yet but had this saved in the back of my head just in case. Anybody else have any info on this? Only if tickets are purchased directly from Disney or would they extend any valid Disney ticket?


----------



## Karandak

We booked them all through a third party website - I’m sure we’d just have to pay the difference for another year’s tickets.
Along with the extra money for the flights and discovery cove we’ve already paid from moving it from last year!

I still have a very faint glimmer of hope somewhere that I won’t have to sort that though!


----------



## Ruttangel

Karandak said:


> We booked them all through a third party website - I’m sure we’d just have to pay the difference for another year’s tickets.
> Along with the extra money for the flights and discovery cove we’ve already paid from moving it from last year!
> 
> I still have a very faint glimmer of hope somewhere that I won’t have to sort that though!


My tickets expire 30th Sep this year but attractiontickets said I could cancel them by 1st August to get them swapped to next year. Don't even need to send them back, just send a photo of chopped up tickets.
Good luck


----------



## bex7583

I have cancelled our trip  late July / aug  the suddenness of the Portugal thing really put us off. I doubt we could afford to pay a premium to rebook flights home at short notice and neither can we afford  keep our business closed and quarantine. We had already pushed it booking an extended stay as it's likely our last big family trip before the teen starts wanting to go on holiday with mates etc hoping maybe a Xmas reschedule is possible but that would mean 2 week off school for youngest  

Anyway


Tony said:


> I've long given up any belief that the government have a ce doing when it comes to managing travel during COVID. They've done some things right, but certainly not this.
> 
> This is a bit tongue in cheek, but bear with me...
> 
> The problem with the spend money at home argument is there are 730,000 hotel rooms  (2011 data, the number will have gone up a bit) in the UK, but 11.5 million school kids. That means everyone can take a two and a half night break during the six week summer holiday (rounding out on the basis that although many families have more than one child, they'll also need more than one room). You'd also have to ban travel by anyone who doesn't have a kid in school. My thoughts and prayers to whoever gets the Travelodge between the pig farm and the cement works on the side of the A19...



It's so annoying and I can't imagine they are going to relax the school attendance rules/ fines so we can holiday in the UK. As you say options this summer are hugely limited already in the u.k! I suppose they will argue the kids have just had 18 month off school, how can the possibly take any more time off for a holiday.

People have stuff that was pre-booked even before covid  existed, plus all the people trying to reschedule cancelled trips, business juggling staff annual leaves that will be all over the place!

We have paid almost £100 a night for a tent pitch in Cornwall ( and that's still taking 3 days off school ) . Our accomodation in Florida averaged £60ish


----------



## Karandak

Ruttangel said:


> My tickets expire 30th Sep this year but attractiontickets said I could cancel them by 1st August to get them swapped to next year. Don't even need to send them back, just send a photo of chopped up tickets.
> Good luck



That’s promising as that’s who we booked the tickets through.
Thanks for that info, I’ll bear it in mind.


----------



## Plague

Tony said:


> there are 730,000 hotel rooms


I should think that other accommodations like self-catering would far exceed those numbers. And there won't be any/many foreign visitors.
Possibly not enough for all but a lot of people will likely just stay home (try buying garden furniture, etc, just now) and take day trips to the beach/zoo/whatever.
And people without kids generally avoid the school holidays anyway   

Let's be realistic - despite our vaccinations we are still deep in an international health crisis with new variants popping up at intervals. Going abroad for fun is a privilege and a risk, not a right. I'm afraid I have no time for those who rushed off to Portugal and are now complaining about the goalposts moving - we were warned they were on wheels.


----------



## Tony

Plague said:


> I should think that other accommodations like self-catering would far exceed those numbers. And there won't be any/many foreign visitors.
> Possibly not enough for all but a lot of people will likely just stay home (try buying garden furniture, etc, just now) and take day trips to the beach/zoo/whatever.
> And people without kids generally avoid the school holidays anyway
> 
> Let's be realistic - despite our vaccinations we are still deep in an international health crisis with new variants popping up at intervals. Going abroad for fun is a privilege and a risk, not a right. I'm afraid I have no time for those who rushed off to Portugal and are now complaining about the goalposts moving - we were warned they were on wheels.


My apologies if you missed my very clear comment that my post was tongue in cheek...


----------



## leise

It's the hope that kills....https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/us-british-leaders-expected-work-reopen-travel-uk-statement-2021-06-09/

We are booked for August, it's been postponed twice already from August 2020 and Jan 2021. Realistically we can't take a decision on whether to cancel until BA decide to cancel the flights again. Looks like that decision will be going to the wire....


----------



## PaulaSB12

JordanClark9 said:


> I don't see any reason for USA not to be on the UK green list by August if not earlier as vaccination numbers are very similar, but the final hurdle will be USA allowing travel into the country. I have my fingers crossed for myself for September and don't see why this wouldn't be in place by August. Just have to sit tight and wait for news I guess.


there is a very big reason for it not to be on the green list.  The government wants uk money to be spent here not elsewhere


----------



## Lucys dad

I previously thought it was 50/50 about October 2021. I think the chances are now 80/20 against.


----------



## Thegoatfeeder

I asked Simon Calder (travel journalist) on a live chat thing yesterday, desperate I know, and he basically said August was 50/50 and impossible to predict.

I'm not getting any hopes up whatsoever, but like a post above, my tickets expire at the end of September!


----------



## Minniesgal

Is anyone worried about the fact most of the Uk were vaccinated with Astra Zeneca but the CDC hasn't approved it.  Will the USA basically consider us unvaccinated?


----------



## tinkerbell1991

Minniesgal said:


> Is anyone worried about the fact most of the Uk were vaccinated with Astra Zeneca but the CDC hasn't approved it.  Will the USA basically consider us unvaccinated?


I was initially but I'm assuming just by seeing how the vaccine is helping to keep deaths down primarily right now then hopefully cases once more people get vaccinated, the figures alone will show that it's doing something.


----------



## PeachyBubba

Minniesgal said:


> Is anyone worried about the fact most of the Uk were vaccinated with Astra Zeneca but the CDC hasn't approved it.  Will the USA basically consider us unvaccinated?


I wouldn't worry about that. The only 3 vaccines that have been approved by the CDC are Pfizer, Moderna and Johnson & Johnson. Guess what they all have in common? They are all American companies. Why would they let someone else make money when they can look after themselves.


----------



## sophie131

Minniesgal said:


> Is anyone worried about the fact most of the Uk were vaccinated with Astra Zeneca but the CDC hasn't approved it.  Will the USA basically consider us unvaccinated?



I've been looking into this tonight as I plan to travel to the US this summer (as an exception). The CDC website says:
After travel information for people fully vaccinated with an FDA-authorized vaccine or a vaccine authorized for emergency use by the World Health Organization

I think the key here is 'authorized for emergency use by the WHO' as I think the AZ vaccine is covered under this.


----------



## Plague

tinkerbell1991 said:


> the figures alone will show that it's doing something.


Yes.
Hopefully the 'taskforce' will look at the data rather than the politics or whatever.
The UK is a leader in producing reliable data on variants, etc, so hopefully the US will acknowledge that.

I was also both saddened and pleased that the Delta variant is already 'in the wild' in the US, so that is less of a reason to keep us out ... not that such logic is necessarily going to be used. (But I do wonder how the frick did it get in there, given their restricted access?)


----------



## JordanClark9

Minniesgal said:


> Is anyone worried about the fact most of the Uk were vaccinated with Astra Zeneca but the CDC hasn't approved it.  Will the USA basically consider us unvaccinated?





sophie131 said:


> I think the key here is 'authorized for emergency use by the WHO' as I think the AZ vaccine is covered under this.



I was also thinking about that the other day but I think Sophie has hit the nail on the head there. As long as it was WHO approved I don't think there should be an issue.


----------



## The_Banking_Scot

Hi,

Given that the US allowed vistors from India into the US until the Presdential Proclamation of April 30th, it is likely to have come in before then and has been slowly circulating


----------



## MadScouser

So it looks like USA wasnt added to the green list yet


----------



## Adzo88

I'm still holding hope for September but as everyday goes by I become more and more sure it won't happen... 

One question I have for everyone is about testing to return home to the UK - I dont see the gov removing this requirement anytime soon but how are people planning to go and risk not being able to get back? I'm trying to work out the logistics of a worst case scenario of what happens if you test positive before your flight home - would it literally just be a case of paying to extend your trip and find a hotel until you test negative? I think its this risk more than anything that will put a stop to my plans even if the US opens the borders! Would love to know everyone's plans for this aspect! (Aware I also need to check if travel insurance covers extended stay but pretty sure it won't!)


----------



## Thegoatfeeder

Adzo88 said:


> I'm still holding hope for September but as everyday goes by I become more and more sure it won't happen...
> 
> One question I have for everyone is about testing to return home to the UK - I dont see the gov removing this requirement anytime soon but how are people planning to go and risk not being able to get back? I'm trying to work out the logistics of a worst case scenario of what happens if you test positive before your flight home - would it literally just be a case of paying to extend your trip and find a hotel until you test negative? I think its this risk more than anything that will put a stop to my plans even if the US opens the borders! Would love to know everyone's plans for this aspect! (Aware I also need to check if travel insurance covers extended stay but pretty sure it won't!)



To be honest our concerns are more around the US actually letting us in as opposed to anything else. With the news fully vaccinated Brits can visit amber list countries without quarantine on return pretty much ensures that we will go in August/September assuming we are allowed in.

I have to be honest, I hadn't considered your point around what if we test positive whilst there, I guess having had both jabs we just plan on playing the percantages and taking that risk. Maybe not the most sensible move, but we believe that the positives outweigh the potential negative of testing positive whilst away.

I suppose that is easy for us to say though, we travel without kids so don't have the extra pressure of having to manage that situation. I think it will be a really last minute decision, this UK/US 'travel task force' isn't going to come to an agreement over night, and to be honest I don't think there will be any formal agreement announced prior to the 05 August UK government travel update, failing that, I think the following one is around the 28th August.


----------



## FAL

I am on due to go on the 29th July to chicago.  1st August to Disney.  Balance due tomorrow.  Am I right in thinking I can move and/or get a full refund


----------



## Plague

FAL said:


> I am on due to go on the 29th July to chicago.  1st August to Disney.  Balance due tomorrow.  Am I right in thinking I can move and/or get a full refund


Are you talking about flights, Disney, or a package?
How much deposit would you lose if you cancelled now instead of paying the balance?
(If it's only a £50 Disney deposit I'd just kill it and keep all options open until I knew more about the future.)


----------



## bex7583

Adzo88 said:


> I'm still holding hope for September but as everyday goes by I become more and more sure it won't happen...
> 
> One question I have for everyone is about testing to return home to the UK - I dont see the gov removing this requirement anytime soon but how are people planning to go and risk not being able to get back? I'm trying to work out the logistics of a worst case scenario of what happens if you test positive before your flight home - would it literally just be a case of paying to extend your trip and find a hotel until you test negative? I think its this risk more than anything that will put a stop to my plans even if the US opens the borders! Would love to know everyone's plans for this aspect! (Aware I also need to check if travel insurance covers extended stay but pretty sure it won't!)




This is what I would like to know, not just for our Florida holiday but others we have booked in Europe too. I can't imagine any hotel will allow you to just check in. I'm assuming they have approved ones you must use. How long do you have to stay on it ? A set number of days or until a negative result ( wasn't there some students stuck in Greece quarantine for ages as kept testing positive)

Also when you do your test in UK to fly over there what if just one person tests positive ? Go without them? Do insurance cover and reimburse all travellers / or just the cost of the person who tested positive. . .argghhhh


----------



## Mdktf

PaulaSB12 said:


> there is a very big reason for it not to be on the green list.  The government wants uk money to be spent here not elsewhere


Forget the UK, it’s more about when the US will let us in?!


----------



## PaulaSB12

I think travel will be allowed after 3rd September because that is when schools go back so will stop families with school age kids travelling abroad. They want people spending money here not anywhere else.


----------



## Mdktf

PaulaSB12 said:


> I think travel will be allowed after 3rd September because that is when schools go back so will stop families with school age kids travelling abroad. They want people spending money here not anywhere else.


That’s not what I asked. They are nice n the amber list so we can go, which I would.

I want to know when the US will let us in.


----------



## mousefan73

I’m also frustrated. I fly back to the states this week. Can as citizen. We have a family trip with my mom in August too who only has German. We are also getting nervous.


----------



## WebmasterDoc

PLEASE review the thread pinned at the top of this forum - https://www.disboards.com/threads/dis-policy-on-covid-discussion-effective-june-6-2021.3843018/


----------



## 2Tiggies

mousefan73 said:


> I’m also frustrated. I fly back to the states this week. Can as citizen. We have a family trip with my mom in August too who only has German. We are also getting nervous.



I feel your pain! We are in a similarly frustrating situation. My parents were supposed to come over from the UK for daughter's graduation in May last year and obviously it's all up in the air for everyone. I have dual citizenship so tecnhically I could go visit them, but hubby only has US passport and I don't know what the rules are from the UK side about US visitors going in there. I'm assuming similar policies are in place between both countries.  Add to that the quarantine when you get there it's just not worth it.

Is your mom comig to the US (hopefully) in August or is your family trip elsewhere? 

Something has to give eventually.  The US is NEVER going to hit that 70% target, let alone by July. They can't keep everyone locked down forever. Just makes it difficult to plan while we wait for them to decide.


----------



## Mdktf

WebmasterDoc said:


> PLEASE review the thread pinned at the top of this forum - https://www.disboards.com/threads/dis-policy-on-covid-discussion-effective-june-6-2021.3843018/


Hence why I told him I’m not interested


----------



## Mdktf

2Tiggies said:


> I feel your pain! We are in a similarly frustrating situation. My parents were supposed to come over from the UK for daughter's graduation in May last year and obviously it's all up in the air for everyone. I have dual citizenship so tecnhically I could go visit them, but hubby only has US passport and I don't know what the rules are from the UK side about US visitors going in there. I'm assuming similar policies are in place between both countries.  Add to that the quarantine when you get there it's just not worth it.
> 
> Is your mom comig to the US (hopefully) in August or is your family trip elsewhere?
> 
> Something has to give eventually.  The US is NEVER going to hit that 70% target, let alone by July. They can't keep everyone locked down forever. Just makes it difficult to plan while we wait for them to decide.


I reckon you could come to the UK pretty easily.


----------



## Mdktf

NickKelly55 said:


> Flights rebooked as had to postpone family trip last year . Will we be allowed to travel do you thick and Will Disney and Universal be open ? What’s people’s predictions ?
> Traveling out 1 Aug 21


It seems a possibility, it’s hanging on the US now.


----------



## Mdktf

PaulaSB12 said:


> I think travel will be allowed after 3rd September because that is when schools go back so will stop families with school age kids travelling abroad. They want people spending money here not anywhere else.


I don’t think the task force are thinking about uk kids holidays.


----------



## Welsh_Dragon

FCDO have lifted conditions, so all we need now is the US government to agree to allow entry for non essential travel. A step in the right direction!


----------



## JordanClark9

Welsh_Dragon said:


> FCDO have lifted conditions, so all we need now is the US government to agree to allow entry for non essential travel. A step in the right direction!


Here's a link for anyone interested. Baby steps, but we're getting there...
https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/usa
Edited for government website link.


----------



## Lucys dad

Welsh_Dragon said:


> FCDO have lifted conditions, so all we need now is the US government to agree to allow entry for non essential travel. A step in the right direction!



Good news for sure, but I'm not convinced Johnsons latest 'freedom day' plans for the 19th July will have other countries in any hurry to let us in


----------



## Plague

Lucys dad said:


> Good news for sure, but I'm not convinced Johnsons latest 'freedom day' plans for the 19th July will have other countries in any hurry to let us in


Yes, I keep seeing news reports that mention we are the first country to do 'this' and others will be watching closely *, so I think it will be at least September before the results are sufficiently clear.

( * Boris did say we'll be world leaders after Brexit, so I suppose we can't complain    )


----------



## Welsh_Dragon

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-a...b80-9e1c-36288eba7de0&utm_content=immediately


----------



## BadPinkTink

Just because the UK travel guidance has changed, does not mean that UK people can go to USA. UK is still on American CDC list of countries prohibited from entry, which was last updated April 30. Biden has to remove The UK from the Executive order.


----------



## Thegoatfeeder

Virgin have cancelled all US flights up until the 22nd August, our flight is the 30, so I expect to get the cancellation email next week.

I'd say August is definitely gone, September probably too.


----------



## finchy3

Sadly still no end in sight  
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...vel-ban-on-europeans-despite-pleas-to-ease-it


----------



## tinkerbell1991

https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...ravel-ban-sees-update-coming-days-2021-07-15/


----------



## JordanClark9

tinkerbell1991 said:


> https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...ravel-ban-sees-update-coming-days-2021-07-15/


My fingers are crossed for a good outcome...


----------



## BadPinkTink

omg, just reading that Reuters article has made me all emotional, goodness I really expected not to be able to travel before November.


----------



## tinkerbell1991

JordanClark9 said:


> My fingers are crossed for a good outcome...



Me too. Even if it's not the news we're all hoping for, just some sort of update would help a lot of people what to do next with their possible trips on whether to persevere or cancel.



BadPinkTink said:


> omg, just reading that Reuters article has made me all emotional, goodness I really expected not to be able to travel before November.


Aww, I feel a bit like this I must admit. Like I know nothing has technically been announced but even just that glimmer of hope with a possible update is much needed for us all right now.


----------



## BadPinkTink

tinkerbell1991 said:


> Aww, I feel a bit like this I must admit. Like I know nothing has technically been announced but even just that glimmer of hope with a possible update is much needed for us all right now.



exactly, for over a year, all the conversations with my USA friends, on my next trip lets do xyz, but the not knowing when that trip will be so its just someday, when I get back has been so hard.


----------



## tinkerbell1991

BadPinkTink said:


> exactly, for over a year, all the conversations with my USA friends, on my next trip lets do xyz, but the not knowing when that trip will be so its just someday, when I get back has been so hard.


I can imagine x I hope it all works out for you soon


----------



## Karandak

FINALLY! Tui have cancelled my flights, only 19 days before I was due to go!


----------



## Plague

JordanClark9 said:


> My fingers are crossed for a good outcome...


It's still vague ... "_He said he expects to be able to answer "within the next several days what is likely to happen... I'm waiting to hear from our folks in our COVID team as to when that should be done."_ " ... but it would be nice to at least have an idea of what the plan is (or at least that there is a plan   ).
I can understand their reticence though. From the same article "_"It has to be a sustainable decision. It is certainly not sensible to have to take it back after only a few days," Merkel said._" When you look at what has been happening with our very own traffic light system and having four countries with different rules and timings within the UK, then you can see how that could play out for the USA with 50 states already applying their own twist on things. They do need to get it right.

Here's hoping.


----------



## Plague

Oh. This puts an interesting complication into the mix:
Fully jabbed UK arrivals from France must still quarantine

Apparently due to the beta variant (the SA one) in France.


----------



## RossK

Seems like we might get some clarity over the coming weeks:-

.Biden to reveal end date for US travel ban on Europe ‘within days’.1 day ago


----------



## bex7583

Sooo what's everybody thinking about Xmas   open ? Or will it have opened and then closed again ?


----------



## tinkerbell1991

bex7583 said:


> Sooo what's everybody thinking about Xmas   open ? Or will it have opened and then closed again ?


Only my opinion, I feel like once they open the borders, they'll remain open. I also can't see them going on the red list from the UK end, either stay as amber or be moved to green as their vaccines rates are pretty good. Again, just my thoughts  x


----------



## Thegoatfeeder

bex7583 said:


> Sooo what's everybody thinking about Xmas   open ? Or will it have opened and then closed again ?



Don't say it! . Our 'backup' to our September trip is the first fortnight in December, and at this point anything could happen!


----------



## Lucys dad

I'd put money on the UK turning into COVID island shortly after our 'Freedom Day '  No chance the US will let us in for a good few months in my opinion. Other parts of Europe perhaps, but definitley not the UK


----------



## Thegoatfeeder

Lucys dad said:


> I'd put money on the UK turning into COVID island shortly after our 'Freedom Day '  No chance the US will let us in for a good few months in my opinion. Other parts of Europe perhaps, but definitley not the UK



I also thought this, something I’m trying to suppress in my mind


----------



## Plague

bex7583 said:


> Or will it have opened and then closed again ?


Either definitely, probably, possibly or no.

By all means book a Disney resort and park tickets, BUT ... do not give money to an airline (unless you are very rich).


----------



## Lucys dad

Thegoatfeeder said:


> Don't say it! . Our 'backup' to our September trip is the first fortnight in December, and at this point anything could happen!



Our September trip is our 'backup' trip from last June. I also now have a 'backup backup' for July 2022.  If you didnt laugh you'd cry


----------



## marcais

Lucys dad said:


> Our September trip is our 'backup' trip from last June. I also now have a 'backup backup' for July 2022.  If you didnt laugh you'd cry



I've been saying since last year that our next trip was planned for Aug '22 and I wasn't convinced it would happen. There's been very little our gov't has done that has encouraged me that it will happen. The early vaccine rollout gave me hope, but that has long since evaporated.

I don't have to make any decisions for a bit because flights for Aug '22 won't be available for another 6 weeks or so, but, honestly, I can see us not making that trip.

The optimism of people holding out for a trip next month is admirable. I don't have that level of optimism in me.


----------



## Lucys dad

marcais said:


> I've been saying since last year that our next trip was planned for Aug '22 and I wasn't convinced it would happen. There's been very little our gov't has done that has encouraged me that it will happen. The early vaccine rollout gave me hope, but that has long since evaporated.
> 
> I don't have to make any decisions for a bit because flights for Aug '22 won't be available for another 6 weeks or so, but, honestly, I can see us not making that trip.
> 
> The optimism of people holding out for a trip next month is admirable. I don't have that level of optimism in me.



Ive just been pinged on some sort of pilot scheme and it looks like I'm off to WDW in 4 weeks time. Absolutely delighted.


----------



## tinkerbell1991

Lucys dad said:


> Ive just been pinged on some sort of pilot scheme and it looks like I'm off to WDW in 4 weeks time. Absolutely delighted.


Sorry if I'm being really dumb  but what do you mean please?


----------



## Lucys dad

tinkerbell1991 said:


> Sorry if I'm being really dumb  but what do you mean please?


 Sorry, just being sarcastic about our latest farcical sitauation surrouding our leaders


----------



## tinkerbell1991

Lucys dad said:


> Sorry, just being sarcastic about our latest farcical sitauation surrouding our leaders


Oh ok


----------



## tinkerbell1991

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/07/19...oid-travel-to-the-uk-as-covid-cases-rise.html


----------



## Plague

Related to above I've seen that modelling suggests our infections will peak or plateau during August. I'd guess the US might be similar.
As such I don't see them deciding to open until that peak is seen, ie has passed, which puts us into September and a potential open up mid/late September.
And that's probably optimistic ...


----------



## Thegoatfeeder

“Freedom day” is the big problem here I think. My friend in the US has said media over there is really confused/amused by the juxtaposition of our huge daily rises in cases and all those videos and images from nightclubs on Sunday night and the fact that we have seemingly withdrawn all restrictions.

I feel like the attitude of most other countries is that our government doesn’t have a clue what it’s doing and is ignoring the science. I can see why foreign governments would be extremely hesitant to open to us currently. I’m not commenting with my view of the government to avoid any disagreements, merely how I think other nations are viewing our government.

I can actually see the US opening to the EU before the UK.


----------



## Lucys dad

Thegoatfeeder said:


> “Freedom day” is the big problem here I think. My friend in the US has said media over there is really confused/amused by the juxtaposition of our huge daily rises in cases and all those videos and images from nightclubs on Sunday night and the fact that we have seemingly withdrawn all restrictions.
> 
> I feel like the attitude of most other countries is that our government doesn’t have a clue what it’s doing and is ignoring the science. I can see why foreign governments would be extremely hesitant to open to us currently. I’m not commenting with my view of the government to avoid any disagreements, merely how I think other nations are viewing our government.
> 
> I can actually see the US opening to the EU before the UK.



Agree 100% with all of that.


----------



## JordanClark9

Thegoatfeeder said:


> “Freedom day” is the big problem here I think. My friend in the US has said media over there is really confused/amused by the juxtaposition of our huge daily rises in cases and all those videos and images from nightclubs on Sunday night and the fact that we have seemingly withdrawn all restrictions.
> 
> I feel like the attitude of most other countries is that our government doesn’t have a clue what it’s doing and is ignoring the science. I can see why foreign governments would be extremely hesitant to open to us currently. I’m not commenting with my view of the government to avoid any disagreements, merely how I think other nations are viewing our government.
> 
> I can actually see the US opening to the EU before the UK.


I've been thinking the same thing in the back of my head. Other countries aren't going to care about whether hospitalisations/deaths are low, they'll just look at the case numbers, which at the moment has us in a bad position. It will be interesting to see how Biden addresses this with his update.


----------



## alisonbestford

Well, that was pretty soul destroying, having to go into MDE and cancel all our park days and dining reservations for our cancelled August trip 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			
		
		
	


	



I'm well aware that there are much bigger problems out there but it's still made me sad 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Roll on to when we can book for April 2023 and we can get our countdown back 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



Just an edit to say I contacted WDW and the cancellation hasn't cost us anything ie we didn't lose the £50 pp deposit


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## Plague

Just today's tap with the hammer from Reuters:
U.S. extends travel curbs at Canada, Mexico land borders through Aug. 21
The one slightly positive takeaway is that the pressure for some sort of easing, possibly just for vaccinated travellers, is building.


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## tinkerbell1991

alisonbestford said:


> Well, that was pretty soul destroying, having to go into MDE and cancel all our park days and dining reservations for our cancelled August trip
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> Roll on to when we can book for April 2023 and we can get our countdown back
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You're entitled to be sad, I'm sorry you've had to cancel for this year.
I need to make a decision by the end of August/start of September as that's around my 30 day mark for when cancelling a lot of things we have booked and I feel sick to my stomach pretty much knowing it won't go ahead this year 
Not the end of the world but so frustrating and disheartening especially as our wedding will have to be postponed for the third time ☹


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## Plague

alisonbestford said:


> Just an edit to say I contacted WDW and the cancellation hasn't cost us anything ie we didn't lose the £50 pp deposit


Good to know.


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## Plague

tinkerbell1991 said:


> I need to make a decision by the end of August/start of September


Hang in there - there's a lot happening. (Yeah, none of it good at present, but that means we are due a change soon ... right?)


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## alisonbestford

tinkerbell1991 said:


> You're entitled to be sad, I'm sorry you've had to cancel for this year.
> I need to make a decision by the end of August/start of September as that's around my 30 day mark for when cancelling a lot of things we have booked and I feel sick to my stomach pretty much knowing it won't go ahead this year
> Not the end of the world but so frustrating and disheartening especially as our wedding will have to be postponed for the third time ☹


Was hoping that third time lucky would go ahead but hey, there'll be a 4th I hope although my daughter gets married next year and wants to try and start a family pretty quickly so who knows  4th time could either be a solo trip or a 'mob'


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## tinkerbell1991

Plague said:


> Hang in there - there's a lot happening. (Yeah, none of it good at present, but that means we are due a change soon ... right?)


Thank you and I've been thinking that for a couple of months but it does feel like it surely has to happen soon. My gut feels like though that Biden will open their borders to the EU only, not UK. I don't know why, I just do


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## tinkerbell1991

alisonbestford said:


> Was hoping that third time lucky would go ahead but hey, there'll be a 4th I hope although my daughter gets married next year and wants to try and start a family pretty quickly so who knows  4th time could either be a solo trip or a 'mob'


This is the same for me, I want to start a family soon as I've got it in my head I want to be married first so refuse to consider kids until I'm a Mrs


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## Plague

tinkerbell1991 said:


> My gut feels like though that Biden will open their borders to the EU only, not UK.


That would be politically tricky. I would think that he has to lift the decree (?) that Trump placed last year on us, the Schengen zone, Ireland (and a bunch of other countries that I'm sure he's not bothered about), and then apply a ban on the UK specifically. That would (should) produce some fallout.
That said, and I'm pushing the forum rules here, Boris's current attitude to the NI situation does counter that theory somewhat. It's messy.


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## bcwife76

Plague said:


> Just today's tap with the hammer from Reuters:
> U.S. extends travel curbs at Canada, Mexico land borders through Aug. 21
> The one slightly positive takeaway is that the pressure for some sort of easing, possibly just for vaccinated travellers, is building.


Meanwhile Canada is opening up to US tourists (who are fully vaccinated) on August 9th and tourists from anywhere else in the world (also fully vaccinated) Sept 7th. It's not Disney but parts of Canada *cough cough* BC *cough cough* are lovely in late summer/early Fall ;-)


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## tinkerbell1991

Plague said:


> That would be politically tricky. I would think that he has to lift the decree (?) that Trump placed last year on us, the Schengen zone, Ireland (and a bunch of other countries that I'm sure he's not bothered about), and then apply a ban on the UK specifically. That would (should) produce some fallout.
> That said, and I'm pushing the forum rules here, Boris's current attitude to the NI situation does counter that theory somewhat. It's messy.


Oh I can imagine it is messy and there's so much to factor in. I just think the UK is painted out to be this country that seems to have the delta variant running rampant but not others, but that could easily be down to the newspaper I read etc. I also considered the fact that the rest of the EU is allowing US visitors into their countries without quarantine measures which the UK still has so whether Biden will do something similar and reciprocate those "rules".
I of course hope it's a matter of everywhere WITHIN the EU can travel and bit going off the fact that the UK is not part of the EU Union anymore.
Time will tell ... which I'm praying is soon as I'm going stir crazy haha


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## SirDuff

tinkerbell1991 said:


> Oh I can imagine it is messy and there's so much to factor in. I just think the UK is painted out to be this country that seems to have the delta variant running rampant but not others, but that could easily be down to the newspaper I read etc. I also considered the fact that the rest of the EU is allowing US visitors into their countries without quarantine measures which the UK still has so whether Biden will do something similar and reciprocate those "rules".
> I of course hope it's a matter of everywhere WITHIN the EU can travel and bit going off the fact that the UK is not part of the EU Union anymore.
> Time will tell ... which I'm praying is soon as I'm going stir crazy haha


It's isn't just where you're reading.  From Our World in Data (it doesn't track the variant, but UK is clearly out-of-sync in terms number of cases to most European countries (admittedly, just a small sample here).


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## JordanClark9

Plague said:


> Just today's tap with the hammer from Reuters:
> U.S. extends travel curbs at Canada, Mexico land borders through Aug. 21
> The one slightly positive takeaway is that the pressure for some sort of easing, possibly just for vaccinated travellers, is building.


I suppose the only take away I have from this is that they're trying to ensure that testing/vaccination records are able to be accessed for travel into the country - which I'd imagine would be a lot more difficult to police on land borders than it is for air travel.


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## Plague

bcwife76 said:


> parts of Canada *cough cough* BC *cough cough* are lovely in late summer/early Fall


But like Scotland, Canada has midges


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## Plague

tinkerbell1991 said:


> I just think the UK is painted out to be this country that seems to have the delta variant running rampant but not others





SirDuff said:


> From Our World in Data (it doesn't track the variant, but UK is clearly out-of-sync in terms number of cases to most European countries (admittedly, just a small sample here).


I've been using the Zoe app since it first appeared and keeping up to date through their info, mainly Tim Spector's YT reports.
In the most recent one he mentioned that our figures, while not 'good', are not as bad as other countries make them look because we do _3 times_ more testing than any other country. So of course we pick up/confirm a greater proportion of cases. Or put another way, many countries are under-reporting cases (not necessarily deliberately, just different systems, etc.).
Hopefully the CDC will be aware of that factor, though how/if that filters through to the decision makers is another matter ... they love the chart to knee-jerk way of impressing their voters


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## tinkerbell1991

Plague said:


> I've been using the Zoe app since it first appeared and keeping up to date through their info, mainly Tim Spector's YT reports.
> In the most recent one he mentioned that our figures, while not 'good', are not as bad as other countries make them look because we do _3 times_ more testing than any other country. So of course we pick up/confirm a greater proportion of cases. Or put another way, many countries are under-reporting cases (not necessarily deliberately, just different systems, etc.).
> Hopefully the CDC will be aware of that factor, though how/if that filters through to the decision makers is another matter ... they love the chart to knee-jerk way of impressing their voters


Thats good to know as I actually didn't realise that, thank you


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## SirDuff

Plague said:


> I've been using the Zoe app since it first appeared and keeping up to date through their info, mainly Tim Spector's YT reports.
> In the most recent one he mentioned that our figures, while not 'good', are not as bad as other countries make them look because we do _3 times_ more testing than any other country. So of course we pick up/confirm a greater proportion of cases. Or put another way, many countries are under-reporting cases (not necessarily deliberately, just different systems, etc.).
> Hopefully the CDC will be aware of that factor, though how/if that filters through to the decision makers is another matter ... they love the chart to knee-jerk way of impressing their voters



That's true and I should have added more.

They do test more than other countries.  But, the two charts don't align.  They've been out-testing those countries for months (they began pulling away at the beginning of the year and have been somewhat plateaued recently) but the relative spike in cases has only been since about late May.  It cannot all be explained by testing.  The fact that the positivity rate is going up also suggests that the excess numbers are not entirely due to extra testing.

The good thing that the UK has going for it is a very high vaccination rate (though not that much higher than the comparison countries) so they are seeing relatively milder cases than they saw during other surges and their CFR is low (though the hospitalization rate is starting to creep up).  And the estimated effective R, though increasing, isn't out-of-line with other (similar) countries.

The Delta variant is also very widespread (% distribution of variants is not dependent testing rates), but given all the quickly popping up new variants, we may find that Delta isn't our biggest worry shortly.

Their 'ping' system seems to be a tale of two halves - much of the population has the app, but the "pingdemic" (people repeatedly being forced to isolate because they were near someone who tested positive) is leading to some people ignoring the ping or completely removing the app.  I've seen any studies comparing the rates of app use and/or pings across countries (though I suspect such analysis does exist).


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## Lucys dad

Plague said:


> But like Scotland, Canada has midges



Toronto would be  a decent back up plan for me for late September. Really enjoyed it there last time. I live in the North East of Scotland and work across Morayshire and the Highlands, I'm battle hardened when it comes to midgies.


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## Plague

SirDuff said:


> It cannot all be explained by testing.


Oh, that wasn't what I meant. I think the shape of the curves is pretty correct - it's just that our absolute numbers (per whatever) are probably not as bad as they look because we find and count more than other countries. (But we still don't catch all, so there is still some estimating going on.)

Our timing is also making it look bad because we have loosened up a lot of late, whereas many of those countries are still in various stages of lockdowns. Eg. That Netherlands 'peak' is presumably due to the big u-turn and reapplication of restrictions they did having eased a lot. If that line had continued we'd probably be in second place by now.
The US is tricky as it is so big. It makes more sense to show individual states as they are more similar in size to European countries and we know that most of their current rise is down to a handful of states.


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## Minniesgal

Alicefan said:


> This may have zero to do with what you're asking but when I went to London, the Christmas markets were open and I was so excited to hit the first one....and then....I saw a second one, and it had exactly the same booths with the same merch as the first. Here I was thinking that the stuff was artisan crafts and such and it was just a bunch of store bought junk. I was so disappointed.  Anyway....carry on. lol





SirDuff said:


> It's isn't just where you're reading.  From Our World in Data (it doesn't track the variant, but UK is clearly out-of-sync in terms number of cases to most European countries (admittedly, just a small sample here).
> 
> View attachment 591273



Graphs like that are not suitable for making comparisons between countries we test more and amplify the test more than other countries comparing apples and oranges here


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## SirDuff

Plague said:


> Oh, that wasn't what I meant. I think the shape of the curves is pretty correct - it's just that our absolute numbers (per whatever) are probably not as bad as they look because we find and count more than other countries. (But we still don't catch all, so there is still some estimating going on.)
> 
> Our timing is also making it look bad because we have loosened up a lot of late, whereas many of those countries are still in various stages of lockdowns. Eg. That Netherlands 'peak' is presumably due to the big u-turn and reapplication of restrictions they did having eased a lot. If that line had continued we'd probably be in second place by now.
> The US is tricky as it is so big. It makes more sense to show individual states as they are more similar in size to European countries and we know that most of their current rise is down to a handful of states.



Oh, definitely.    I was talking more about the shape - that jump over the last few weeks is pretty stark and a contrast to other countries.  But totally didn't make that clear at all.  And, it isn't tied to a similar jump in testing - the higher numbers appear to be more testing AND something else.  Usually, more testing would lead to a lower positivity rate (since your threshold for testing is lower), but we don't see that currently in the UK.  

Comparison for anything COVID-19 related is hard.  I recall earlier Belgium had massively high mortailty rates compared to other European countries.  BUT, they were much broader in their defintion of "death from COVID-19" than most countries, which probably explained the difference (or most of it). I'm personally somewhat of a fan of excess mortality (okay, not a fan of extra people dying, but of the metric).  Assuming the modeling is done well (which I know it isn't - yet), it does remove some of the caveats.  It does, however, only catch the extreme (deaths).  It also is heavily influenced by the overall state of the healthcare system (which, depending on your view point, is good or bad).  I tend to work with low-income countries where the CFR is high.

I'm really hoping Biden lifts the ban soon (though I'm in Switzerland, not the UK) so that I can finally see my family again (Canadian living in Europe with family in the US). In terms of timing making the UK look bad - sure, a different snapshot a few weeks ago (a few weeks from now?) was (will be?) totally different. But the PP was talking about *now*, so that was what we were looking at. And, yes, I think the NL peak and then drop is based on them widely opening up and then (fairly quickly) locking back down again. I'm hoping that things don't go the same way in the UK and that you don't have to lockdown again. And that we can all travel where we want to/need to.


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## bcwife76

Plague said:


> But like Scotland, Canada has midges


Haha not really in BC where I am.


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## Plague

SirDuff said:


> you don't have to lockdown again.


I can't see it. Although there are naysayers, with winter on the horizon we need to get to herd immunity soon or suffer more consequential losses until spring rolls round..
I think of winter (with flu, etc, and everyone indoors) like a big train approaching a level crossing and each country is a car on the road - you either get across before the train, or you have to slam on the brakes and idle till it passes. The UK is trying to beat it which could turn out badly, but with our pedal currently to the metal we are approaching a point where it may be worse to (try and) stop than keep going.


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## Plague

It seems the answer to the thread title is now "No".
Reuters this lunchtime (Monday)
Exclusive-U.S. will not lift travel restrictions, citing Delta variant -official


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## Plague

There is also this Reuters' article today which is interesting background in light of the post above.
How the Delta variant upends assumptions about the coronavirus


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## Karin1984

Plague said:


> It seems the answer to the thread title is now "No".
> Reuters this lunchtime (Monday)
> Exclusive-U.S. will not lift travel restrictions, citing Delta variant -official


Well... The article says till at least August 21st. So we could still go for a maybe for  the last week..?
(I agree with that's a no, but let's stay positive !  )


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## bcwife76

Karin1984 said:


> Well... The article says till at least August 21st. So we could still go for a maybe for  the last week..?
> (I agree with that's a no, but let's stay positive !  )


August 21 is in reference to the Canada US border and the Mexico US border only, sorry.


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## Plague

bcwife76 said:


> August 21 is in reference to the Canada US border and the Mexico US border only, sorry.


Well spotted.

On rereading the article there is another irritation in "_The Biden administration has refused to offer any metrics that would trigger when it will unwind restrictions and has not disclosed if it will remove restrictions on individual countries or focus on enhancing individual traveler scrutiny._"
So aside from not having a possible date we still don't even have an idea of what plan, if there even is one, is in place to inform any decision to announce a date.


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## Karin1984

bcwife76 said:


> August 21 is in reference to the Canada US border and the Mexico US border only, sorry.





Plague said:


> Well spotted.
> 
> On rereading the article there is another irritation in "_The Biden administration has refused to offer any metrics that would trigger when it will unwind restrictions and has not disclosed if it will remove restrictions on individual countries or focus on enhancing individual traveler scrutiny._"
> So aside from not having a possible date we still don't even have an idea of what plan, if there even is one, is in place to inform any decision to announce a date.


Confession: I hadn't read the Reuters article  
I did read the news in a Dutch newspaper, there it mentioned that till the 21st of August EU + GB / Swiss etc. wouldn't get access to the US for sure. It was phrased in such a way that me think they would re-evaluate later and maybe after the 21st there would be options.


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## Rowlf the Dog

Plague said:


> Well spotted.
> 
> On rereading the article there is another irritation in "_The Biden administration has refused to offer any metrics that would trigger when it will unwind restrictions and has not disclosed if it will remove restrictions on individual countries or focus on enhancing individual traveler scrutiny._"
> So aside from not having a possible date we still don't even have an idea of what plan, if there even is one, is in place to inform any decision to announce a date.


Yeah, these were my exact feelings. Combined with the next paragraph "_Reuters reported last week the White House was discussing the potential of mandating COVID-19 vaccines for international visitors, but no decisions have been made, sources briefed on the matter said. That idea remains under active discussion, they said._" this is just so depressing. So fully vaccinated in the hope of some freetime-entertainment, but now the last hope for any of it died ("real" rock-concerts are still a no-go here in Germany in clubs as well as open airs). I also don't have any hopes for 2022 :-(


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## disneyholic family

this is crazy.
The UK is actually doing better than the US, but the UK is still banned.

I’m really sorry for any of you who were planning to go in August.
I have to admit that I’m getting nervous about my reservations for next July (2022).
Crazy I know, but all of thus is crazy!!!


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## alisonbestford

So we've now received the money back from WDW (took less than a week) and Virgin (took around 13 days) 
Does anyone know when the April 2023 hotel and ticket packages, direct with Disney, are likely to go on sale? 
I'm in desperate need of a 'countdown'


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## csimon

These days, things can alter at any time! But usually the UK packages open up in March/April.


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## alisonbestford

csimon said:


> These days, things can alter at any time! But usually the UK packages open up in March/April.


Thank you - I'll have to try and be patient


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## csimon

I'm waiting for then too!


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## Plague

alisonbestford said:


> April 2023 ...
> I'm in desperate need of a 'countdown


I was passing a Hays travel agent this afternoon and they had a sign up on the pavement for 4 nights b&b in New York about then. Payment in installments from now to then which is a nice countdown  

(I noticed the NY from a distance and wondered when it was for, so looked closer ... )


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## Minniesgal

alisonbestford said:


> So we've now received the money back from WDW (took less than a week) and Virgin (took around 13 days)
> Does anyone know when the April 2023 hotel and ticket packages, direct with Disney, are likely to go on sale?
> I'm in desperate need of a 'countdown'



I'm tempted to move my July 2022 to Easter 2023 but we will see.


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