# Travel Changes?



## BluesTraveler

Taking a suggestion from the China changes thread, I thought I'd start one so people could talk about their upcoming travel and whether they're considering changing.  As I said on the China thread, we have a Galapagos/Ecuador trip in July (another company) that I think we are going to cancel.  Feels like a better year to explore somewhere we haven't been in the US.


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## sayhello

I have a trip to France in May, and am in no way considering cancelling it.  Obviously, if things change vastly before then in France and how they are handling things, we'll have to see what happens.  But I'm already paid in full, have purchased all my airfare, several pre-day tours, etc.  I'm really not worried about catching the Corona virus.  Like others have said on other threads, the big issue is getting caught up in the quarantine fever that seems to have hit everywhere.  100 to 200 times as many people die from the flu every year than have died of the corona virus, and the vast majority of those corona virus deaths were in the small region of China where the outbreak began, which had poor healthcare.  Most deaths are the elderly or folks with compromised immune systems.  If I started down that slippery slope, I wouldn't leave my condo, as anyone, anywhere could potentially be infected. 

Sayhello


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## lovetotravel

Sadly, we cancelled our summer ABD Asia tour before PIF, in addition to a layover trip in Japan. Our flights connected in China and Japan, and Korea was the only other choice. With so much uncertainty, the only certain thing was if I cancelled before PIF, I would minimize the most loss of payments. I had cancel for any reason insurance (not ABD), but got all refunded regardless. All companies were very understanding and didn’t hesitate to cancel, rebook, or refund. 
I lost out on insurance policy cost but I will be buying cancel for any reason insurance again in the future. 
We will reconsider Asia another time, just not this summer. Thanks to everyone on this board for all the advice and input.


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## BluesTraveler

sayhello said:


> I'm really not worried about catching the Corona virus.



No, I'm not either.  My real concern is being caught in an unexpected quarantine due to another traveler, and not being able to get back to our kids (this was a trip just for DH and me).  I think if the kids were traveling with us, or if they were older and independent, I would feel differently.


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## sayhello

BluesTraveler said:


> No, I'm not either.  My real concern is being caught in an unexpected quarantine due to another traveler, and not being able to get back to our kids (this was a trip just for DH and me).  I think if the kids were traveling with us, or if they were older and independent, I would feel differently.


I *totally* understand that!  We had a poster here years ago who got caught up in a swine flu quarantine in China, and it was no joke.  ABD was in constant contact with her during her and her children's, I believe, 10-day quarantine in a crappy facility, but they could do nothing for her until she was released.  That worry is real.

Sayhello


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## cedricandsophie

We are going to Africa at the end of March, South Africa, Botswana, Namibia, tanzania.    No plans to change.  Better chance of getting malaria than a flu virus. We are in our 70s and healthy.  we have a few more ‘must dos’ on our travel itinerary before slowing down.  If I were going to Italy I’d just stay out of the impacted areas.


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## neurosx1983

sayhello said:


> I have a trip to France in May, and am in no way considering cancelling it.  Obviously, if things change vastly before then in France and how they are handling things, we'll have to see what happens.  But I'm already paid in full, have purchased all my airfare, several pre-day tours, etc.  I'm really not worried about catching the Corona virus.  Like others have said on other threads, the big issue is getting caught up in the quarantine fever that seems to have hit everywhere.  100 to 200 times as many people die from the flu every year than have died of the corona virus, and the vast majority of those corona virus deaths were in the small region of China where the outbreak began, which had poor healthcare.  Most deaths are the elderly or folks with compromised immune systems.  If I started down that slippery slope, I wouldn't leave my condo, as anyone, anywhere could potentially be infected.
> 
> Sayhello



Same here. We're leaving for london/paris ABD in a few weeks and I have no intention of trying to cancel unless s*** hits the fan with this stuff in Italy and it massively spreads to Paris. In fact we really want to do a disneyland paris add on and I'm still thinking of doing that. 
Asia is a different story. I wouldn't go there right now. But Europe seems OK except for Italy. Curious as to how ABD is going to handle the Italy ABD coming up in a few weeks.


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## Candycane83

We’re going to Costa Rica in 19 days... I think we should be ok but as previous posters have said, getting caught in the quarantine is worrisome. As it is, my husband is being asked by his boss to work from home for 14 days after our trip. It’s not company policy for sure since I work in the same place but he wants to appease his boss. We’re going on a DCL Med cruise w/ 2 ports in Italy (as well as almost 2 weeks around Spain) this summer though and am now a little concerned about that. This cruise was moved already from last year due to a medical emergency so I doubt DCL would extend that courtesy again! Honestly though I think the cruise itself may be more worrisome than Italy...


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## hilarys

Just a week ago, we made the decision to PIF the balance on our DCL Greek Isles cruise that starts in Rome - we had been trying to decide between that one where we had a deposit and the Southern Carrib.  Kinda wishing we had picked Southern Carrib.  I wasn't even aware of the Italy issues when we made the decision last week - oops. At this point planning to stay the course and watch what happens.


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## SirDuff

cedricandsophie said:


> We are going to Africa at the end of March, South Africa, Botswana, Namibia, tanzania.    No plans to change.  Better chance of getting malaria than a flu virus. We are in our 70s and healthy.  we have a few more ‘must dos’ on our travel itinerary before slowing down.  If I were going to Italy I’d just stay out of the impacted areas.



Other than having my temperature taken (laser type thermometer point at/near my ear) as we disembarked, I've noticed nothing different in travel in Kenya or Tanzania compared to previous trips.


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## aggiedog

Just got back from Portugal.  No issues and just a handful of people wearing masks in the airport.

Going to France in June.  Already PIF, no plans to cancel.

Have a big family trip planned to Japan in December 2020, with G Adventures. PIF is only 3 months prior.  We're going to wait and see how things go.  Hoping 10 months from now things are settled down.


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## DisneyWishes14

As of this morning, we are on the fence with our 2020 Rhine Cruise.  PIF isn't for a few months, so we'll wait and see a bit, but I'm very hesitant to purchase our flights right now.  We were planning some pre- and post-days in Switzerland and Germany and I've booked those hotels, but those are all refundable at this point.  As others have said, I'm more worried about quarantines.  I suppose if we decide not to go, we'll move the deposit to a 2021 ABD.   I'm just not sure where to move it to at this point because if this becomes a true pandemic, where does one go?  I know I can only switch it once, so will need to really think about that.  My MIL had booked a trip to Northern Italy (non-ABD) and has cancelled at this point.  I also have the SoCal/DL ADR booked and I'm not really sure what to do about that.  My deposit for that is refundable for a few more days.


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## morgan98

My husband is still flying into Milan tomorrow.  He contacted the people running next week's wine certification course in Florence and they have no intention of cancelling.  I think cancelling everything is a big risk too - the world economy cannot just come to a grinding halt.   Especially when almost half the cases in Italy are quarantined at home with no symptoms or minor symptoms.  I would like to think I will still be leaving for Italy on March 12th as well - however, I think we may have to rethink our plans.

I think this is already way more widespread than we are acknowledging.  There is just not widespread testing unless people are in a specifically identified group.

Please don't misunderstand me,  I do not want people to get sick and die.  But it seems this only severely impacts high risk populations and the cat is already out of the bag....  Not sure how you are supposed to track cold/flu like symptoms around the work and assume it is Coronavirus.


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## BlueChariot

We are booked for the Italy trip that leaves in 2 weeks. I just called ABD, and as of right now, the itinerary remains unchanged.

I'm not concerned about Rome or Florence. My biggest concern is trying to re-book airfare home if they decide not to go to Venice, because that is where we are supposed to fly home from. I know ABD will cover any change fees, but just hope there is room on flights leaving from other airports in Italy for us to make it back (hopefully together).


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## Aelin1977

We have a trip to Zambia (with another operator) coming up in June. The tour operator hasn't said anything about the trip being cancelled and we have no plans to cancel it ourselves. We're flying through London and Johannesburg and are not concerned. 

I'd be more concerned if I as going to the Caribbean or Central America. Cases of Dengue Fever are on the rise there. No cure or vaccine and it's spread by mosquitoes.


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## Networth

We are going to London (2 day layover )/Greece(ABD)/Paris/DLP for 23 days in May. It’s a big trip to celebrate me obtaining my Doctorate and my wife obtaining her Masters. We are PIF for everything including flights, ABD, hotels, tours etc and we will not be canceling. I will be monitoring the situation closely but am not very concerned. That said I would not head to Asia at this time.


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## Jess_S

We just got back from Panama, a trip we took in lieu of going to Southeast Asia. I was kind of surprised about the lackadaisical approach the US is taking to screening potentially ill people entering the country. In Panama we had to do a health questionnaire and temp screening to enter the country. Here we were waived through no questions asked. It seems like if there is going to be a pandemic, the US will be no safer than elsewhere and possibly worse since we don't seem to be taking the steps that countries in southeast Asia have taken to screen and track for the disease. 

We have been going back and forth on booking a Europe trip for the summer and I am glad we haven't pulled the trigger. I am definitely second guessing my decision on canceling our Borneo trip though. The situation in Singapore and Malaysia seems pretty stable now compared with elsewhere.


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## blabadie

We have cancelled a family trip for March to Thailand.  Would rather visit at a less stressful time.  I was concerned about flying through Singapore and I think Thailand’s reported virus numbers are lower than reality given their huge numbers of Chinese travelers.

I have also postponed bringing my kids back to India to join my husband who is on expat assignment there.  The kids and I will be staying at our home in the USA for the next couple months in hopes things calm down.  Not particularly worried about India right now since it doesn’t *seem* to be having an outbreak.  But worried about a worst case quarantine situation if the kids picked up the regular flu or a bad cold on the flight over.

We have a Disney Bahamian Cruise planned with my in-laws for early May that we have no plans to change.  We also have a HAL Greek Odyssey Cruise planned for October with my parents.  Keeping an eye on that one but hoping and praying it will be fairly normal by then.


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## Poppins2000

We have the first ABD Rhine Cruise of the season (May) and we are PIF, airline tickets bought, pre days booked and paid for along with post trip bookings.  Unless ABD cancels, we plan on going!


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## laceltris3

We are doing the Tauck Bridges Siene river cruise in early July. PIF is in a month. I am going to pay it off, airfare is already purchased. Not planning on canceling now. I truly believe that coronavirus is basically unstoppable and that at some point this year will be broadly in the community. I guess I just won't stop living my life over it, unless France shuts down for business like China did. 

I saw on our elevator that tourism in France is down like 40%. I think a lot of that decline is from people from Asia who are choosing not to travel, but flights to and from Europe seem to be less than packed as well.


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## sayhello

laceltris3 said:


> We are doing the Tauck Bridges Siene river cruise in early July. PIF is in a month. I am going to pay it off, airfare is already purchased. Not planning on canceling now. I truly believe that coronavirus is basically unstoppable and that at some point this year will be broadly in the community. I guess I just won't stop living my life over it, unless France shuts down for business like China did.
> 
> I saw on our elevator that tourism in France is down like 40%. I think a lot of that decline is from people from Asia who are choosing not to travel, but flights to and from Europe seem to be less than packed as well.


I have to ask.  On your elevator?

Sayhello


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## laceltris3

sayhello said:


> I have to ask.  On your elevator?
> 
> Sayhello


 Sorry. Our elevators at the high rise where I work has little news clips for entertainment and one yesterday was about the decline in tourism in France.


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## Calfan

We are booked on a Japan trip with Thomson for June 16-July 1 (the first few nights on our own at TDR) and, at this point, we have every intention of going.  Our PIF date is not until March 22, so I will continue to monitor the situation, but our thinking is similar to others:  we aren't in one of the groups most vulnerable to coronavirus (elderly and those with compromised immune systems), and I'm still hoping the virus will begin to peter out in the months between now and our trip.  It would definitely be a huge bummer if we got caught up in a quarantine,  but at least if that were to happen my kids won't be missing school, since it is a summer trip.  (They will be almost 16 and 18 at the time of travel, so not little ones.)  Our hotel nights are all refundable at this point, and I could probably get our miles reinstated on Qantas (we used those for JAL flights).  We've got flights in first and business on JAL that I worked hard to get, so it would hurt a little to let those go (but I would definitely do so if things deteriorate materially in Japan). The flights are non-stops between the U.S. and Japan so no other Asian country layovers.  Bottom line is that it is DD's 18th bday trip that we all are really excited about, and while the newness of coronavirus is scary, as others have pointed out, the common flu is a much larger killer statistically at this point.  (I will admit it has occurred to me that we might catch Japan with much lower crowds than typical in summer due to folks cancelling travel plans, which could be a huge plus.)  In case Thomson decides to cancel on their end, I have been taking note of some possible alternatives for a family trip this summer and would likely pick a U.S. or Canada national parks trip.


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## Magnum_PI

laceltris3 said:


> Sorry. Our elevators at the high rise where I work has little news clips for entertainment and one yesterday was about the decline in tourism in France.



Mine does this as well, and I have been guilty of "reading about [x] in the elevator" more than once lol.


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## CaliforniaGirl09

We're heading to London on Monday. We go 4-6 times a year, and I don't have any plans to change things at this point. I will be wearing a mask on the plane and bringing Clorox wipes everywhere. My biggest fear is some random quarantine issue. Wish me luck!


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## Magnum_PI

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> We're heading to London on Monday. We go 4-6 times a year, and I don't have any plans to change things at this point. I will be wearing a mask on the plane and bringing Clorox wipes everywhere. My biggest fear is some random quarantine issue. Wish me luck!



I just got back to the US from London 13 days ago.  No covid19/illness yet (knock on wood!), and I am "immunocompromised" due to some medicines I take!  I'm sure you'll be fine, enjoy your trip!


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## CaliforniaGirl09

Magnum_PI said:


> I just got back to the US from London 13 days ago.  No covid19/illness yet (knock on wood!), and I am "immunocompromised" due to some medicines I take!  I'm sure you'll be fine, enjoy your trip!


Thanks so much! We love it there. It feels as if this thing is about to explode, but hopefully we won't get caught up in it. I just read this: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-51643621 Yikes!


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## Magnum_PI

@CaliforniaGirl09 I know what you mean about feeling like it's about to explode.  Especially as I was reading the CDC is saying that an outbreak in the US is inevitable, and we're better off preparing for it to interrupt our lives now.  That said, if it's coming, may as well continue living and enjoy the travel.   Maybe I'm being too cavalier, but if it's coming anyway I'm not sure that staying home is really going to protect us if we're all still going to go to work/school, doing domestic travel, using public transport, etc.  Again, enjoy and try not to worry!


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## sayhello

Magnum_PI said:


> @CaliforniaGirl09 I know what you mean about feeling like it's about to explode.  Especially as I was reading the CDC is saying that an outbreak in the US is inevitable, and we're better off preparing for it to interrupt our lives now.  That said, if it's coming, may as well continue living and enjoy the travel.   Maybe I'm being too cavalier, but if it's coming anyway I'm not sure that staying home is really going to protect us if we're all still going to go to work/school, doing domestic travel, using public transport, etc.  Again, enjoy and try not to worry!


I totally agree with you!  I'm really not sure what they expect us to do to prepare, anyways.

Sayhello


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## Magnum_PI

sayhello said:


> I totally agree with you!  I'm really not sure what they expect us to do to prepare, anyways.
> 
> Sayhello



I think they're just letting people know "hey, if it starts spreading here, you're probably going to see things like large events being cancelled, you might need to make arrangements to telework for a while, think about what might happen if public transport isn't available to you for a while, ask your kids' school what the plan is if they're asked to close, etc." so that people aren't surprised if/when these measures need to be implemented here.  The reporting on it sounds pretty dramatic, but the actual verbiage from the CDC is more like "FYI, these things might happen - don't be surprised by them if we end up needing to implement these things".


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## DisneyWishes14

Ugh.  The Rhine region of Germany isn't looking great right now and I'm really nervous about our ABD Rhine cruise this summer now.  We also have trips planned to Mexico in a few weeks (I think we'll stick to that - I'm just mostly nervous about being on the flights right now, but maybe I'm overreacting) and I'm supposed to do the Cali ABD this summer.  Our Rhine ABD deposit is non-refundable at this point and, while my Cali ABD is refundable until Monday, I kind of feel like rolling the dice on it.  Guess I'll wait it out and won't purchase flights for any of these trips right now.  Worst case scenario, I move the ABD deposits to something next year.  I could also reschedule Mexico without a huge financial loss.  Such a bummer


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## aggiedog

Either the virus will die down in the warmer months, like the flu, or by that time it will be everywhere anyways.  No way to really close borders truly for this.

I think I'd be more worried about traveling in the near future, when mass quarantines are still a possiblity.


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## morgan98

aggiedog said:


> Either the virus will die down in the warmer months, like the flu, or by that time it will be everywhere anyways.  No way to really close borders truly for this.
> 
> I think I'd be more worried about traveling in the near future, when mass quarantines are still a possibility.



Like I have said upthread we are faced with traveling soon.  My husband is boarding a flight to Milan in a few hours.  Anyway, I think it is already pretty much everywhere already.  The reason Italy is finding so many cases is they have actually tested over 9,000 people, many of which have no symptoms but may have come into contact with a high risk person.  Other countries are not testing that broadly at all.  And you know how Europe is - the borders are open and the South of France, for example, is much closer to the cases in Lombardy, than Southern Italy is.  So, I have an idea there are cases out there, that look like flu and people are not being tested.  It is winter and coughs, sniffles and fevers are everywhere.  I myself had a bad case of flu three weeks ago - including temperature of over 103 degrees for a period and I had some shortness of breath/difficulty breathing deeply.  I had not been to China, but I got home from a trip to California not even a day before it hit me suddenly and hard.  Did I have Cornoavirus?  Who knows who I came into contact with.

I just think we cannot randomly quarantine every place that has a case or even in some cases a suspected case.  We are at some point going to have to weigh the risk of the virus spreading vs. shutting everything down and causing the world's economy to collapse.  I am not saying money is more important than life, AT ALL.  But I am the potential of putting millions on lockdown is somewhat crazy too - at least in my opinion.


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## CaliforniaGirl09

Magnum_PI said:


> @CaliforniaGirl09 I know what you mean about feeling like it's about to explode.  Especially as I was reading the CDC is saying that an outbreak in the US is inevitable, and we're better off preparing for it to interrupt our lives now.  That said, if it's coming, may as well continue living and enjoy the travel.   Maybe I'm being too cavalier, but if it's coming anyway I'm not sure that staying home is really going to protect us if we're all still going to go to work/school, doing domestic travel, using public transport, etc.  Again, enjoy and try not to worry!


Thanks! I'm with you


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## neurosx1983

I'm a physician and I probably shouldn't be falling into the trap of the hype in the news, but for some reason now that news of the outbreak is front and center all over the place is starting to make me a bit concerned. Especially because of the quarantine risk.

The fact that Europe is becoming the focus of this also is more striking, as we are going there in a couple of weeks.

Question for you guys though: Would the fact that ABD is NOT cancelling a trip (so far) make you more comfortable traveling to a country with the virus? For instance the ABD italy trip is still on track for a couple of weeks from now. And of course our london/paris trip.


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## sayhello

neurosx1983 said:


> I'm a physician and I probably shouldn't be falling into the trap of the hype in the news, but for some reason now that news of the outbreak is front and center all over the place is starting to make me a bit concerned. Especially because of the quarantine risk.
> 
> The fact that Europe is becoming the focus of this also is more striking, as we are going there in a couple of weeks.
> 
> Question for you guys though: Would the fact that ABD is NOT cancelling a trip (so far) make you more comfortable traveling to a country with the virus? For instance the ABD italy trip is still on track for a couple of weeks from now. And of course our london/paris trip.


ABD would not be going if they thought there was any sort of serious threat to their guests.  *However* if you should get quarantined for any reason, ABD will likely not be able to help you get out.  

Sayhello


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## lovetotravel

neurosx1983 said:


> I'm a physician and I probably shouldn't be falling into the trap of the hype in the news, but for some reason now that news of the outbreak is front and center all over the place is starting to make me a bit concerned. Especially because of the quarantine risk.
> 
> The fact that Europe is becoming the focus of this also is more striking, as we are going there in a couple of weeks.
> 
> Question for you guys though: Would the fact that ABD is NOT cancelling a trip (so far) make you more comfortable traveling to a country with the virus? For instance the ABD italy trip is still on track for a couple of weeks from now. And of course our london/paris trip.


Your concern is valid! 

If there’s one company I am comfortable in traveling with, it’s ABD. We cancelled our ABD Asia trip because we could do it without significant loss and did it before our PIF, not to mention it included stopovers in China, Japan, and Korea. It would have been a nightmare to go home to get flight that did not go through these countries. China and Korea are level 3 - do not travel. If it was after PIF, we would have waited for ABD to cancel as I trust them not to go if there was a severe travel alert 3 and know they would refund or reschedule our trip and flights. Italy is a level 2, so I guess ABD will wait until it’s a 3 to cancel? But it could turn to a 3 in days while a trip is there and then what?


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## lovetotravel

Just saw that Delta is offering refunds/exchanges for northern Italy travel including Venice until March 15. Possibly because it’s a level 2? If ABD ends in Venice, looks like you can change your flights with Delta without penalty.


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## Grifdog22

lovetotravel said:


> Your concern is valid!
> 
> If there’s one company I am comfortable in traveling with, it’s ABD. We cancelled our ABD Asia trip because we could do it without significant loss and did it before our PIF, not to mention it included stopovers in China, Japan, and Korea. It would have been a nightmare to go home to get flight that did not go through these countries. China and Korea are level 3 - do not travel. If it was after PIF, we would have waited for ABD to cancel as I trust them not to go if there was a severe travel alert 3 and know they would refund or reschedule our trip and flights. Italy is a level 2, so I guess ABD will wait until it’s a 3 to cancel? But it could turn to a 3 in days while a trip is there and then what?



I agree. By profession I am a litigation defense attorney so I over analyze and  evaluate risks and possible outcomes of all parameters. I'm still going to France in early May, with OYO before and after, but only because the travel is with ABD.  It sounds corny, but I absolutely trust the Disney brand.


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## lovetotravel

Grifdog22 said:


> I agree. By profession I am a litigation defense attorney so I over analyze and  evaluate risks and possible outcomes of all parameters. I'm still going to France in early May, with OYO before and after, but only because the travel is with ABD.  It sounds corny, but I absolutely trust the Disney brand.


We have an ABD Costa Rica early summer that’s past PIF and we intend to go unless cancelled by ABD.


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## Magnum_PI

Grifdog22 said:


> It sounds corny, but I absolutely trust the Disney brand.



Not corny at all, it's the same reason we booked ABD for Egypt and not another tour company.  Because I know how intensely protective they are of their brand, precisely _because_ they are so invested in maintaining that level of consumer trust.  Makes perfect sense to me.


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## Aelin1977

We live in a world of instant news these days, which is both a blessing and a curse. It's a blessing because we learn about issues quickly but it's a curse because, while they don't mean to, news stories can instigate and flame fears. 

Yes, it's scary when you hear about how there are 80,000+ cases of Covid-19 worldwide and how 2,700 people have died from it so far. The one thing that is missing from all those news stories about it is the perspective. According to the CDC, the common flu infects approximately 5 million people each year and kills up to 650,000 worldwide. In the US alone this year (Oct 1, 2019 - Feb 1, 2020), the CDC estimates 12,000-30,000 people have died and that up to 31 million Americans have had the flu, with up to 37,000 being hospitalized because of it. When you take into consideration the global population of approximately 7.4 - 7.8 Billion people, it really starts to put things in perspective. 

I'm still planning to travel. We're off to Africa in June and India in February with no plans to alter our trips unless our tour operator chooses to do so.


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## neurosx1983

Agreed but we have to be careful not to compare Coronavirus to normal seasonal flu. Death rate for Coronavirus is 3% compared to 0.1-0.2% for flu.
That’s 30 times larger.

I’ll be curious to see what abd does with Italy trip coming up as italy is now level 2 cdc risk and airlines are starting to offer cancellations for Venice


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## lovetotravel

When the ABD SE Asia went in Feb while the outbreak was occurring, I heard that the adventurers were encouraged to change their flights so that they did not go through China while China was a CDC level 3. At that time China was cancelled through May. SE Asia at that time had no CDC warning so I assume that's why ABD thought it was safe to proceed that trip. Italy is different because it's actually a level 2 and trips are pending very soon. Very interested to see at what CDC levels that trips are cancelled, obviously 3 is assumed cancelled.


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## aggiedog

Not to quibble, but my understanding was 2% for CV and 0.5% for flu.  That's 4x more lethal.  Unless you look at Iran, who at last count had 16 deaths out of 95 cases approximately.  Hopefully their cases are under reported and it's not actually at 16+% fatality rate.


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## Diana Risco

morgan98 said:


> Like I have said upthread we are faced with traveling soon.  My husband is boarding a flight to Milan in a few hours.  Anyway, I think it is already pretty much everywhere already.  The reason Italy is finding so many cases is they have actually tested over 9,000 people, many of which have no symptoms but may have come into contact with a high risk person.  Other countries are not testing that broadly at all.  And you know how Europe is - the borders are open and the South of France, for example, is much closer to the cases in Lombardy, than Southern Italy is.  So, I have an idea there are cases out there, that look like flu and people are not being tested.  It is winter and coughs, sniffles and fevers are everywhere.  I myself had a bad case of flu three weeks ago - including temperature of over 103 degrees for a period and I had some shortness of breath/difficulty breathing deeply.  I had not been to China, but I got home from a trip to California not even a day before it hit me suddenly and hard.  Did I have Cornoavirus?  Who knows who I came into contact with.
> 
> I just think we cannot randomly quarantine every place that has a case or even in some cases a suspected case.  We are at some point going to have to weigh the risk of the virus spreading vs. shutting everything down and causing the world's economy to collapse.  I am not saying money is more important than life, AT ALL.  But I am the potential of putting millions on lockdown is somewhat crazy too - at least in my opinion.


We are scheduled for the Italy trip in late March and waiting a few weeks before canceling. All is so dynamic.


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## neurosx1983

Diana Risco said:


> We are scheduled for the Italy trip in late March and waiting a few weeks before canceling. All is so dynamic.



Have you checked with ABD on the Italy trip? If CDC is saying “not recommended” to travel there (Level 2) then I’m shocked Disney hasn’t either cancelled or told you guys the itinerary has radically changed (I.e. not going to Venice)


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## Diana Risco

neurosx1983 said:


> Have you checked with ABD on the Italy trip? If CDC is saying “not recommended” to travel there (Level 2) then I’m shocked Disney hasn’t either cancelled or told you guys the itinerary has radically changed (I.e. not going to Venice)





neurosx1983 said:


> Have you checked with ABD on the Italy trip? If CDC is saying “not recommended” to travel there (Level 2) then I’m shocked Disney hasn’t either cancelled or told you guys the itinerary has radically changed (I.e. not going to Venice)


I spoke to ABD today and they still have a fully booked tour for the March 27th trip. The representative could not answer at what level the trip would be canceled, except to say the rehearsed lines of we are watching the situation closely and following the CDC recommendations ....


----------



## Eastridge

The Tokyo Disney Resort is now closed through March 15, 2020

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2...o-disneyland-closed-coronavirus/#.XliiXkN7nyw


----------



## Candycane83

I saw that Universal Studios Japan has followed suit as well and are closed for the same dates


----------



## DCPhotoGal

We must be on the same tour—departing March 17?  I am also a little worried about the Venice portion of the trip.  I am waiting for any info from ABD beyond the note asking if we had been to China recently.  

I’m also a little worried because I have a pre-day in Naples and I hope if they make cancellations they inform us in enough time for us to make necessary changes to our plans.  



BlueChariot said:


> We are booked for the Italy trip that leaves in 2 weeks. I just called ABD, and as of right now, the itinerary remains unchanged.
> 
> I'm not concerned about Rome or Florence. My biggest concern is trying to re-book airfare home if they decide not to go to Venice, because that is where we are supposed to fly home from. I know ABD will cover any change fees, but just hope there is room on flights leaving from other airports in Italy for us to make it back (hopefully together).


----------



## lovetotravel

I just got this email from the US embassy - Italy, sent via the 
*Smart Traveler Enrollment Program (STEP) - Travel.gov*

Italy, Level 3: Reconsider travel, February 28, 2020
Reconsider travel to Italy due to *a recent outbreak of COVID-19.*

There is an ongoing outbreak of COVID-19 caused by a novel (new) coronavirus in Italy. Many cases of COVID-19 have been associated with travel to or from mainland China or close contact with a travel-related case, but sustained community spread has been reported in Italy. Sustained community spread means that people have been infected with the virus, but how or where they became infected is not known, and the spread is ongoing. The CDC has issued a Level 3 Warning for Italy. At this time, CDC recommends avoiding non-essential travel to Italy. Travelers should review and follow the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention¿s (CDC) guidelines for the prevention of coronavirus if they decide to travel to Italy.

Italy¿s risk of terrorism remains unchanged. Italy has a longstanding risk presented by terrorist groups, who continue plotting possible attacks in Italy. Terrorists may attack with little or no warning, targeting tourist locations, transportation hubs, markets/shopping malls, local government facilities, hotels, clubs, restaurants, places of worship, parks, major sporting and cultural events, educational institutions, airports, and other public areas. 

Read the Safety and Security section on the country information page. If you decide to travel to Italy:


Read the CDC¿s guidelines for the prevention of COVID-19 and information on health conditions in Italy. 
Review the Embassy¿s latest alerts and the embassy¿s webpage on COVID-19 in Italy for additional information. Follow Italian health official guidance and avoid government-designated affected areas.
Have a plan to depart from Italy that does not rely on U.S. government assistance. 
Be aware of your surroundings when traveling to tourist locations and crowded public venues.
Follow the instructions of local authorities.
Monitor local media for breaking events and adjust your plans based on new information.
Enroll in the Smart Traveler Enrollment Program (STEP) to receive Alerts and make it easier to locate you in an emergency.
Follow the Department of State on Facebook and Twitter.
Review the Crime and Safety Reports for Italy.
Prepare a contingency plan for emergency situations. Review the Traveler¿s Checklist.
Bring any required medication in your carry-on luggage as you may be separated from your checked bags. Consider carrying an extra 14 days of medication in the event that there are unanticipated delays in your travel plans.
*Last Update: Updated with increased Advisory level due to the COVID-19 outbreak.*


----------



## neurosx1983

Isn’t level 3 same as China? ABD will definitely cancel in that case.


----------



## lovetotravel

neurosx1983 said:


> Isn’t level 3 same as China? ABD will definitely cancel in that case.


Yes, same as China. I would think they are now canceling and airlines probably issuing refunds.

Updated COVID-19 CDC watch list:
Warning - Level 3, Avoid Nonessential Travel ---- CHINA, SOUTH KOREA, ITALY, IRAN
Alert - Level 2, Practice Enhanced Precautions ---- JAPAN
Watch - Level 1, Practice Usual Precautions ---- HONG KONG


----------



## BlueChariot

Yes, the March 13th departure date for Italy has been cancelled.


----------



## neurosx1983

Such a bummer that this is happening... I just looked at the WHO website and France is number 2 right behind Italy in number of cases. I'm hoping I can still go on this trip!


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

neurosx1983 said:


> Isn’t level 3 same as China? ABD will definitely cancel in that case.


I’m shocked that they haven’t already! ABD is not bring proactive enough on this.


----------



## lovetotravel

neurosx1983 said:


> Such a bummer that this is happening... I just looked at the WHO website and France is number 2 right behind Italy in number of cases. I'm hoping I can still go on this trip!


It looks like US has more than France from Johns Hopkins map. So do you think that based on ABD history of cancelling, they won't cancel until it is a level 3? Do they cancel by email or phone call?

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6


----------



## BlueChariot

lovetotravel said:


> It looks like US has more than France from Johns Hopkins map. So do you think that based on ABD history of cancelling, they won't cancel until it is a level 3? Do they cancel by email or phone call?



They cancel by phone call, though when I called last night about the Italy trip, I don't think they yet knew about the level 3 alert. The vacationista had me on hold for about 40 minutes while she was speaking with her supervisor.


----------



## neurosx1983

At first I was a little taken aback that ABD is literally waiting until CDC makes a country level 3, “do not travel”, before they cancel. But then I thought that maybe part of it is that they have the power to completely change up itineraries if they want. So on London Paris, if Paris starts getting many cases, maybe they’ll turn the whole ABD into a UK trip ? Who knows...I just hope things stabilize soon


----------



## Diana Risco

Just got off the phone with ABD, all March and April Italy trips have been canceled.


----------



## Candycane83

Diana Risco said:


> Just got off the phone with ABD, all March and April Italy trips have been canceled.


Wonder what happens during the summer... lots of trips and cruises affected.


----------



## neurosx1983

@WebmasterJohn  this seems like a salient topic for an upcoming dreams show. Questions and answers regarding travel changes due to this outbreak.


----------



## DCPhotoGal

Diana Risco said:


> Just got off the phone with ABD, all March and April Italy trips have been canceled.


Hm, I haven't gotten a call yet.  Well I guess it's good to know for sure.  What are they offering as alternatives?


----------



## lovetotravel

neurosx1983 said:


> @WebmasterJohn  this seems like a salient topic for an upcoming dreams show. Questions and answers regarding travel changes due to this outbreak.


Would be interesting to also cover insurance and consequences of canceling, ABD insurance vs outside insurance, different scenarios of canceling before and after PIF, PIF before deadline and canceling with ABD vs outside insurance, etc.


----------



## Magnum_PI

lovetotravel said:


> Would be interesting to also cover insurance and consequences of canceling, ABD insurance vs outside insurance, different scenarios of canceling before and after PIF, PIF before deadline and canceling with ABD vs outside insurance, etc.



I'm not an insurance expert, so do take this with a grain of salt.  But most travel insurance does not cover pandemics/endemics/outbreaks as a covered reason for cancelling.  That said, if ABD cancels they'll issue a refund in full.  If you have ABD insurance, you could also use the "cancel for any reason" benefit to cancel if you're not comfortable going but ABD is still going forward with the trip (this benefit gets you a voucher for the value of 75% of your trip to be used towards another trip with ABD).  Some outside travel insurance policies allow "cancel for any reason", but they tend to be pretty spendy and aren't what people typically purchase.


----------



## lovetotravel

Magnum_PI said:


> I'm not an insurance expert, so do take this with a grain of salt.  But most travel insurance does not cover pandemics/endemics/outbreaks as a covered reason for cancelling.  That said, if ABD cancels they'll issue a refund in full.  If you have ABD insurance, you could also use the "cancel for any reason" benefit to cancel if you're not comfortable going but ABD is still going forward with the trip (this benefit gets you a voucher for the value of 75% of your trip to be used towards another trip with ABD).  Some outside travel insurance policies allow "cancel for any reason", but they tend to be pretty spendy and aren't what people typically purchase.


This makes sense, thanks for the clarification! I had cancel for any reason policy out of ABD. I also did PIF before the PIF deadline (dumb I realize, but it was before COVID 19). Then I canceled ABD before PIF deadline as I wanted to minimize loss. I was able to forward the entire balance of my trip towards a new trip. I was told that if I had ABD insurance, then the cancel for any reason ABD of only 75% would have been in force because I already PIF. So I got very lucky.


----------



## Candycane83

When this thread started I hadn’t started worrying too much about Europe but at this point with the higher risk of things not being ok during the summer, I’m leaning towards just moving my ABD for Barcelona to a placeholder instead. PIF is on March 12 so I’m being forced to decide now. Since I have a choice, I’m thinking I might as well not put that as an added stress. I’m already on the hook for flight (cancellation fees of 450) and cruise (moved already from last year  ) plus some hotel reservations... I’m going to book my own tours and hotel to mimic ABD but fully cancellable until a month before the trip.


----------



## neurosx1983

Candycane83 said:


> When this thread started I hadn’t started worrying too much about Europe but at this point with the higher risk of things not being ok during the summer, I’m leaning towards just moving my ABD for Barcelona to a placeholder instead. PIF is on March 12 so I’m being forced to decide now. Since I have a choice, I’m thinking I might as well not put that as an added stress. I’m already on the hook for flight (cancellation fees of 450) and cruise (moved already from last year  ) plus some hotel reservations... I’m going to book my own tours and hotel to mimic ABD but fully cancellable until a month before the trip.



I think its smart to not PIF for europe ABD's right now until things are sorted out.  It's a little nerve wracking for me with our ABD in just two weeks.  We've decided we are going to stick it out as long as we can. If the cases particularly in France keep going up we will probably cancel but there's no difference cancelling today vs cancelling a day before at this point.


----------



## Candycane83

neurosx1983 said:


> I think its smart to not PIF for europe ABD's right now until things are sorted out.  It's a little nerve wracking for me with our ABD in just two weeks.  We've decided we are going to stick it out as long as we can. If the cases particularly in France keep going up we will probably cancel but there's no difference cancelling today vs cancelling a day before at this point.


It’s true, with information changing on a daily basis, it really is best just to wait until the very last minute already in your case. Good luck with that and I do hope things work out well for you!
 I’m headed to Costa Rica in 2 weeks and although there are no reported cases, I’m also at the edge of my seat waiting as anything could really happen...


----------



## Eastridge

lovetotravel said:


> So do you think that based on ABD history of cancelling, they won't cancel until it is a level 3?



I called ABD Friday (2/28) morning.  At that point, China was the only place they had cancelled trips because of the coronavirus.  After that, Italy was raised to CDC level 3, and then we saw reports of ABD cancelling Italy trips going in March and April.

I don't think they have cancelled any Japan trips (yet) because of coronavirus. Japan is level 2.

I infer that CDC level 3 is the threshold for cancellation, and ABD will move quickly to cancel such trips if they are departing in the next several weeks. They are not yet cancelling trips that are further away (summertime) even if the country has CDC level 3, which I understand since the level might go down in the future.


----------



## pistonfan32

There is now a level 4 travel advisory in certain regions of Italy which are 40 miles from Milan. We are booked on the Italy/Switzerland trip on 7/31/20. This trip departs from Milan which is the region where many of the cases have been mentioned on the news.

Final payment is due 4/3/20. It's very early yet I still wonder what is going to happen. We also have first class airfare booked on Delta.

In the scheme of things, our money is minor compared to the worldwide impact of this health crisis that will undoubtedly expand.


----------



## ngl

pistonfan32 said:


> There is now a level 4 travel advisory in certain regions of Italy which are 40 miles from Milan. We are booked on the Italy/Switzerland trip on 7/31/20. This trip departs from Milan which is the region where many of the cases have been mentioned on the news.
> 
> Final payment is due 4/3/20. It's very early yet I still wonder what is going to happen. We also have first class airfare booked on Delta.
> 
> In the scheme of things, our money is minor compared to the worldwide impact of this health crisis that will undoubtedly expand.


First, as you said, the money is immaterial when we are speaking about peoples' lives so I do not want to in anyway make comments that lessen that perspective so that is not my intention at all. We will figure it all out when it comes to travel.

We are in a similar situation with a Tauck Bridges trip in early July - PIF due 4/24. Same with airfare on Delta. Ours goes to Rome and South but of course who knows where this will end up. Up until our PIF date I think our theory is to wait and see. We aren't gaining or losing anything by cancelling now. If in 2 months things are worse then we have a Plan B (& C) ready to go. Like most on these boards we plan way in advance so it would be disappointing not to go but hopefully can push it to next summer. We feel at this point we just have to see how the next few months unravel.


----------



## neurosx1983

Just saw that the Louvre will be closing... Not sure for how long but I hope it’s open *if* we go there. Otherwise that’s a major bummer for the Paris part of London/Paris

strangely it’s been fun to try and come up with back up plans though. We thought about Hawaii and also the old standby WDW. But all the rooms are sold out for that week already!

first world problems...


----------



## Woodview

Think  & Think   this through .

   We are now on the   1st of  March         6  months     before   31st August        & Anything  could happen   

 Look at the  world  economy    if this lasts .

No     production   in factories        as there will be  no spare parts     No  Sport  events   AND MORE  

 So hopefully    this will    fade away   in a few  weeks   as all things  do.

 As a European      ....... will it stop me from   travelling to  Holland  in  April     &  Switzerland   in  May  .....  No


 Look on the  Bright  Side of  life & things


----------



## sethschroeder

sayhello said:


> 100 to 200 times as many people die from the flu every year than have died of the corona virus, and the vast majority of those corona virus deaths were in the small region of China where the outbreak began, which had poor healthcare.



I hate when people say this. This is roughly 20x worse. 2-3% mortality rate vs 0.1% for the flu.

Based on initial information it actually survives on hard surfaces drastically longer as well up to possibly 9 days vs the 24-48 hours of the flu.

The worst flu viruses are also immunized against cutting down the risk of infection compared to pretty much zero immunity against COV.

As an example a flu virus that starts in March in China may be the following falls flu outbreak in the US. The reason they can have flu vaccines is because these viruses are primarily outside the US but already active and typically very dossile (again 0.1% mortality rate). 

So please stop comparing it to the flu.

Its fine if your not worried at all. I am not here to get everyone worked up but don't dismiss it with "well the flu". Still lots of unknowns with this virus.


----------



## lovetotravel

We can all agree that there is a lot of unknown with COVID 19. Which is why we are all on the edge about cancelling upcoming travel plans.


----------



## sayhello

sethschroeder said:


> I hate when people say this. This is roughly 20x worse. 2-3% mortality rate vs 0.1% for the flu.
> 
> Based on initial information it actually survives on hard surfaces drastically longer as well up to possibly 9 days vs the 24-48 hours of the flu.
> 
> The worst flu viruses are also immunized against cutting down the risk of infection compared to pretty much zero immunity against COV.
> 
> As an example a flu virus that starts in March in China may be the following falls flu outbreak in the US. The reason they can have flu vaccines is because these viruses are primarily outside the US but already active and typically very dossile (again 0.1% mortality rate).
> 
> So please stop comparing it to the flu.
> 
> Its fine if your not worried at all. I am not here to get everyone worked up but don't dismiss it with "well the flu". Still lots of unknowns with this virus.


Just for clarity's sake, the mortality rate is now 1.4% for Covid-19 and dropping.  Experts are saying it's probably way lower than that, because they don't have testing in place for Covid-19 in a lot of places, so a lot of minor cases go undiagnosed, which inflates the mortality rate.   As more testing is occurring, the mortality rate will begin to drop closer to the actual number.

Sayhello


----------



## sethschroeder

sayhello said:


> Just for clarity's sake, the mortality rate is now 1.4% for Covid-19 and dropping.  Experts are saying it's probably way lower than that, because they don't have testing in place for Covid-19 in a lot of places, so a lot of minor cases go undiagnosed, which inflates the mortality rate.   As more testing is occurring, the mortality rate will begin to drop closer to the actual number.
> 
> Sayhello



Where are you getting your numbers as numbers have spiked in the last week and it's over 3% now vs total cases. It's 6% vs recovered cases.

All these numbers will be inflated based on unreported those as well. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Sources are listed at bottom of that website as to how they get the numbers.


----------



## sayhello

sethschroeder said:


> Where are you getting your numbers as numbers have spiked in the last week and it's over 3% now vs total cases. It's 6% vs recovered cases.
> 
> All these numbers will be inflated based on unreported those as well. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
> 
> Sources are listed at bottom of that website as to how they get the numbers.


I'm looking at the website you're looking at, and I'm seeing things like this:

*



			Preliminary study providing a tentative 3% estimate for case fatality rate:
		
Click to expand...

*


> A preliminary study published on The Lancet on *January 24* *[3]* provides an early estimation of 3% for the overall case fatality rate. Below we show an extract (highlights added for the relevant data and observations):



Almost all of the statistics on that page are the mortality rate in China, not worldwide.  I do not see a worldwide number there.  I also found this at the top of their page:

_



			Last updated: February 29, 4:40 GMT 
See also:
		
Click to expand...

_


> *Death Rate by Age and Sex of COVID-19 patients*
> At present, it is tempting to estimate the case fatality rate by dividing the number of known deaths by the number of confirmed cases. The resulting number, however, does not represent the true case fatality rate and might be off by orders of magnitude [...]
> A precise estimate of the case fatality rate is therefore impossible at present.



I'm not seeing these numbers you're quoting.  I got my numbers from a report on CBS where Dr. John LaPook was quoting from the CDC.  I've found him to be a very reliable source.  I don't find your source to be actually supporting your statements.  If you could point me to the exact spot where you got your numbers, that would be great.

Sayhello


----------



## sethschroeder

sayhello said:


> I'm looking at the website you're looking at, and I'm seeing things like this:
> 
> 
> 
> Almost all of the statistics on that page are the mortality rate in China, not worldwide.  I do not see a worldwide number there.  I also found this at the top of their page:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not seeing these numbers you're quoting.  I got my numbers from a report on CBS where Dr. John LaPook was quoting from the CDC.  I've found him to be a very reliable source.  I don't find your source to be actually supporting your statements.  If you could point me to the exact spot where you got your numbers, that would be great.
> 
> Sayhello



You don't look at each report as they consolidate it to the big numbers at the top of the page. 88k total cases, 3k deaths, 43k recovered. That is what will give you the morality rate. The sources will point you to very specific regional/national information releases that they monitor for reports of numbers. (the total cases is likely going to be low as its under reported, thus it will drive down the true number)

Also the majority will be from China because that is where the outbreak started. As an example just this week there was a community spread infection (possibly 2) and the first death in the US. There also was an outbreak in Italy as well. By reference if you look at a specific flu strain within the first 6 months you might not find a single person from the US who has been infected or died.

Background on study in to the flu:
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13724-revealed-the-asian-source-of-the-annual-flu-epidemic/
Again this does not mean the world is ending. My whole point was simply to not group this in with the flu and say its harmless. There are people way way smarter than probably any of us on these boards handling many of these decisions or instructing those in positions of power.


----------



## sayhello

sethschroeder said:


> You don't look at each report as they consolidate it to the big numbers at the top of the page. 88k total cases, 3k deaths, 43k recovered. That is what will give you the morality rate. The sources will point you to very specific regional/national information releases that they monitor for reports of numbers. (the total cases is likely going to be low as its under reported, thus it will drive down the true number)
> 
> Also the majority will be from China because that is where the outbreak started. As an example just this week there was a community spread infection (possibly 2) and the first death in the US. There also was an outbreak in Italy as well. By reference if you look at a specific flu strain within the first 6 months you might not find a single person from the US who has been infected or died.
> 
> Background on study in to the flu:
> https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13724-revealed-the-asian-source-of-the-annual-flu-epidemic/
> Again this does not mean the world is ending. My whole point was simply to not group this in with the flu and say its harmless. There are people way way smarter than probably any of us on these boards handling many of these decisions or instructing those in positions of power.


I don't think *anyone* is saying it's harmless.  The _flu_ is not harmless!  They are saying keep everything in context and in perspective.  It's not a global pandemic or anything like that at this point.

Sayhello


----------



## sethschroeder

sayhello said:


> I don't think *anyone* is saying it's harmless.  The _flu_ is not harmless!  They are saying keep everything in context and in perspective.  It's not a global pandemic or anything like that at this point.
> 
> Sayhello



By saying well the flu kills 10x or 20x the number of people you are in a sense saying its harmless. If you didn't know over half the US doesn't even get the flu shot. So there is already an extension of thought around flu="not that big of a deal".

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/fluvaxview/coverage-1718estimates.htm
And that is for a virus we have actual protection against. If people viewed it as harmful those numbers would be dramatically higher. By example over 80% of people are estimated to wear their seat belt which I view to be very similar (momentary "inconvenience" for protection).

Another example is for MMR in children where the rate is over 90% in the US. Again flu vaccines are below 50%.


----------



## neurosx1983

I'll chime in as a physician...I'm not an infectious disease specialist (I'm a neurosurgeon) but I think its important to just focus on a couple of things here:
1. This isn't the same as seasonal flu. Mortality rate is mortality rate. It doesn't matter if we're talking about a handful of people infected or thousands. Percentage remains the same. COVID19 is a NEW and UNSTUDIED virus. Yes its related to the coronavirus that causes a common cold, but its a new thing. We don't have a vaccine for it.  However, of the people that it has infected, around 2-3% of them have died. @sayhello I get your point that a lot of these that have died are in China where medical systems aren't quite as good as they are in other countries, but its just a fact number that 2-3% of those infected have died. Period.  And its a fact that only 0.1-0.2 percent of people with influenza die. So yes, this one, at this point, is 30x worse.

2. This virus can live on surfaces for several days, which is unusual.

3. This virus has a 2 week incubation period, hence the reason quarantines are lasting that long.


I think its important for us to understand that we know so little about this but we need to be careful. Hence the importance of threads like this. The last thing any of us who love to travel want to do is make a hasty decision and cancel a trip for no good reason, but we have to be sensible.

I just called ABD today and it seems like no one has cancelled from our trip next week. Again, I'm praying that things stabilize. From the sound of it in France, though, that's not happening.


----------



## neurosx1983

And I think we should all stick to only two sources of info: WHO and CDC. They're the only ones that I, as a doctor, trust.

WHO releases a daily list of how many cases (and how many new cases) in each country. I've been tracking how France is going up...so I read it every day and get more depressed


----------



## lovetotravel

neurosx1983 said:


> I just called ABD today and it seems like no one has cancelled from our trip next week. Again, I'm praying that things stabilize. From the sound of it in France, though, that's not happening.


All very good points! 

A reason we love traveling with ABD is their ability to replace activities and deal with last minute changes. On our trips where places were closed or delayed, they quickly brought us to another location or had a back up plan, something that I could not have done if a trip was OYO. If the Louvre is closed perhaps they will take you to Musee d'Orsay, which we enjoyed as much the Louvre, or perhaps another exciting excursion!


----------



## neurosx1983

lovetotravel said:


> All very good points!
> 
> A reason we love traveling with ABD is their ability to replace activities and deal with last minute changes. On our trips where places were closed or delayed, they quickly brought us to another location or had a back up plan, something that I could not have done if a trip was OYO. If the Louvre is closed perhaps they will take you to Musee d'Orsay, which we enjoyed as much the Louvre, or perhaps another exciting excursion!



Absolutely! I've read trip reports of other companies where they will throw on a movie night if something's cancelled but ABD doesn't seem like they would do that...I hope I'm not proved wrong


----------



## aggiedog

I'll just add in, also as a physician (ophthalmologist), that Covid-19 seems to be more transmissible than the flu, perhaps twice as much, from what early data shows.  And that it may also be completely asymptomatic in some, while they are still contagious.  This makes it more likely to be spread to more people than the flu.  Factor in that no one is vaccinated, and there is currently no known effective treatments, and that is where the worry lies.


----------



## sayhello

The Louvre was not closed by the government or the WHO or anything of that nature.  The *employees* of the Louvre, knowing that they get tens of thousands of visitors each day from all over the world, requested of their management that the museum be closed for a period of time until they know what's going on.  The employees were afraid that visitors would bring the virus to them.  They're currently closed for 2 weeks.

I went to Disney World and Universal 3 weeks ago.  People from all over the world in very close quarters.  I feel more like I could have caught it then than if I was going to France today.

Sayhello


----------



## Eastridge

pistonfan32 said:


> There is now a level 4 travel advisory in certain regions of Italy which are 40 miles from Milan. We are booked on the Italy/Switzerland trip on 7/31/20. This trip departs from Milan which is the region where many of the cases have been mentioned on the news.
> 
> Final payment is due 4/3/20. It's very early yet I still wonder what is going to happen. We also have first class airfare booked on Delta.



There's probably no advantage to making a firm decision right now when you still have a month until final payment.  

Delta suspended flights to Milan for a while and appears to be offering refunds for those.  So if the region still has the same advisories for your July trip, I would guess that you could get your money back from Delta.  If you booked through ABD air, then ABD would also refund your airfare.

https://www.travelmarketreport.com/articles/Delta-Air-Lines-Temporarily-Suspends-Flights-to-Milan
I see three options for your situation:

1) You can pay in full.  Then you are in the same situation as me, waiting for your trip and leaving it to the CDC and ABD to cancel if they judge the risk is too high.  You will get all your money back if they cancel.  But does your risk tolerance match that of CDC and ABD?  As others have said, I do believe that Disney won't risk damaging its brand by proceeding with a trip that they should have cancelled.

2) You can switch to a different ABD trip before the PIF date.  But then you have to predict the future and pick a trip and date that won't have the same problem.  Given that Italy is in the Schengen region, which covers virtually all the European destinations that ABD goes to, it is hard to be certain that any particular trip will remain unaffected.

3) You can "park" your deposit and not commit to a specific trip for now, but I don't know how long it can stay parked.

Good luck with your decision.


----------



## disneyholic family

neurosx1983 said:


> I'll chime in as a physician...I'm not an infectious disease specialist (I'm a neurosurgeon) but I think its important to just focus on a couple of things here:
> 1. This isn't the same as seasonal flu. Mortality rate is mortality rate. It doesn't matter if we're talking about a handful of people infected or thousands. Percentage remains the same. COVID19 is a NEW and UNSTUDIED virus. Yes its related to the coronavirus that causes a common cold, but its a new thing. We don't have a vaccine for it.  However, of the people that it has infected, around 2-3% of them have died. @sayhello I get your point that a lot of these that have died are in China where medical systems aren't quite as good as they are in other countries, but its just a fact number that 2-3% of those infected have died. Period.  And its a fact that only 0.1-0.2 percent of people with influenza die. So yes, this one, at this point, is 30x worse.
> 
> 2. This virus can live on surfaces for several days, which is unusual.
> 
> 3. This virus has a 2 week incubation period, hence the reason quarantines are lasting that long.
> 
> 
> I think its important for us to understand that we know so little about this but we need to be careful. Hence the importance of threads like this. The last thing any of us who love to travel want to do is make a hasty decision and cancel a trip for no good reason, but we have to be sensible.
> 
> I just called ABD today and it seems like no one has cancelled from our trip next week. Again, I'm praying that things stabilize. From the sound of it in France, though, that's not happening.




is your ABD going to france?? Next week??
i would cancel.  And i'm on this side of the atlantic. I'm assuming you're on the other side.
France is on the rise. Cases doubling day by day.
They haven't gotten to italy yet, but they'll get there.

unrelated to your trip specifically, as of yesterday, italy had 1,694 confirmed cases and 34 deaths (up from 29 on the previous day).
so based on those numbers, the death rate is 2%...
and the rate of spread is very high.  It's highly contagious.
The problem isn't so much the death rate, but the numbers that require critical care. The medical system can be overwhelmed rather quickly.
Of course, each country will be different as each country has a different availability of medical care.
.
.


----------



## disneyholic family

so, i just discovered this thread and haven't read through it yet (i really should be asleep as it's the middle of the night).
ABD has a 4 month PIF, correct?
when i get to my PIF, if they haven't shortened it by then, i'll cancel.
Same with my DCL PIF, which i think is at 3 months.
if Disney doesn't delay the PIFs, i'll cancel the trip entirely.

I guess that means i'll lose my ABD deposit, right?  Or can i move the deposit to another trip?

The only other possible sunk cost would be our plane tickets, but the airline i bought from has been very flexible and will if not refund then will let me move to another date for no charge.

.


----------



## neurosx1983

disneyholic family said:


> is your ABD going to france?? Next week??
> i would cancel.  And i'm on this side of the atlantic. I'm assuming you're on the other side.
> France is on the rise. Cases doubling day by day.
> They haven't gotten to italy yet, but they'll get there.
> 
> unrelated to your trip specifically, as of yesterday, italy had 1,694 confirmed cases and 34 deaths (up from 29 on the previous day).
> so based on those numbers, the death rate is 2%...
> and the rate of spread is very high.  It's highly contagious.
> The problem isn't so much the death rate, but the numbers that require critical care. The medical system can be overwhelmed rather quickly.
> Of course, each country will be different as each country has a different availability of medical care.
> .
> .



Yes I'm going on the England/France ABD leaving March 12th. Are you in the UK? How is it over there? (Assuming you're in the Uk...)
I'm honestly so far not concerned at all about the London portion, but France has me worrying a bit because they're cases are going up. They're at 100 cases as of today according to WHO. That makes them number 2 in Europe behind Italy.
The other thing is that the Louvre is now closed. What's next...Versailles? Eiffel Tower? At some point this trip that I'm spending so much money on for my family is going to start looking very different than when we planned it.

So anyway yes I'll be making a decision by the end of this week. I'm trying to hold out as long as I can incase ABD cancels so I can get a refund. But there's also a good chance that I might still go if they don't cancel because of my blind faith in the Disney brand to protect me! lol 

Seriously though, it sucks. I'm not sure how this is going to play out. I'm making plans for a backup incase it falls through. One thing is for sure I am NOT staying home (in the cold northeast) for vacation!


----------



## Networth

I am an infectious disease nurse practitioner who has been keeping an eye on COVID-19 since early January. I work closely with UF and round in their Gainesville and Jacksonville hospitals. As someone else mentioned in this thread please, only get your information from the WHO and/or CDC. Many news articles I have read seem to have out dated or incorrect information with questionable sources. 

Our ID department works closely with the FL health department who has been in contact with the CDC daily. Everyone I speak to is hoping the tied turns once the weather warms globally. Also of note is that there has been some success with current antiviral medications. Using broad-spectrum antiviral drugs like Nucleoside analogues may disrupt the viral infection until a novel antiviral becomes available.

Several groups of researchers are currently working to develop a primate model to study COVID-19 to establish/fast track therapies and for testing potential vaccines in addition to providing a better understanding of virus-host interactions. This will get solved, it’s just a matter of time (I am an eternal optimist).

We currently are booked on a Greece ABD May 8th and have plans to be in Paris/DLP from May 17th-25th and I am staying hopefully optimistic.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

We are off to London (on our own) tomorrow. Traveling with this going on will be ... interesting! Cross your fingers for me on avoiding a random quarantine situation. That's our main fear. I will report from the front lines


----------



## tidefan

neurosx1983 said:


> I'll chime in as a physician...I'm not an infectious disease specialist (I'm a neurosurgeon) but I think its important to just focus on a couple of things here:
> 1. This isn't the same as seasonal flu. Mortality rate is mortality rate. It doesn't matter if we're talking about a handful of people infected or thousands. Percentage remains the same. COVID19 is a NEW and UNSTUDIED virus. Yes its related to the coronavirus that causes a common cold, but its a new thing. We don't have a vaccine for it.  However, of the people that it has infected, around 2-3% of them have died. @sayhello I get your point that a lot of these that have died are in China where medical systems aren't quite as good as they are in other countries, but its just a fact number that 2-3% of those infected have died. Period.  And its a fact that only 0.1-0.2 percent of people with influenza die. So yes, this one, at this point, is 30x worse.
> 
> 2. This virus can live on surfaces for several days, which is unusual.
> 
> 3. This virus has a 2 week incubation period, hence the reason quarantines are lasting that long.
> 
> 
> I think its important for us to understand that we know so little about this but we need to be careful. Hence the importance of threads like this. The last thing any of us who love to travel want to do is make a hasty decision and cancel a trip for no good reason, but we have to be sensible.
> 
> I just called ABD today and it seems like no one has cancelled from our trip next week. Again, I'm praying that things stabilize. From the sound of it in France, though, that's not happening.


Not in the medical field, but am a statistician.  What I find interesting is how South Korea seems to be an outlier.  They are up to 3,526 cases, but only have 18 deaths.  That is a CFR of .005 (0.5%).  So, my guess is one of two things.  One, is South Korea doing a better job of testing everyone, so they get a better handle on what the true population is, or Two, their outbreak started in a church.  Not in a hospital (like in Italy) or spread in a Long-Term Care Facility (Washington State) where you would have already an immuno-compromised population.


----------



## lovetotravel

Florida declares a public health emergency: Two cases of the virus were identified in Florida late Sunday night, prompting Gov. Ron DeSantis to declare a public health emergency.

https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/p...e-test-presumptively-positive-for-coronavirus


----------



## Networth

lovetotravel said:


> Florida declares a public health emergency: Two cases of the virus were identified in Florida late Sunday night, prompting Gov. Ron DeSantis to declare a public health emergency.
> 
> https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/p...e-test-presumptively-positive-for-coronavirus



Expect more cases in FL. We have been given the go ahead to start testing for COVID-19 in State labs located in Jax, Tampa, and Miami.


----------



## Eastridge

Given the current situation and uncertain future, it is entirely reasonable for people to cancel, change or postpone their trips.

However, if you still intend to go on your chosen trip, here’s a thought:

Personally, in this situation, I would much rather travel internationally as part of an ABD group than do the trip on my own. 

Disney can’t afford to damage its brand by taking undue risks with its tour groups.  Most Americans probably don’t know the Tauck brand or other concierge travel brands, but everybody knows Disney.  So if ABD doesn’t cancel the trip, I take that as a sign that the risk is acceptably low.
By being part of an ABD group, you are backed by an organization that will watch for problems and can make alternate arrangements more easily than I could on my own in another country.
The guides are very proactive in anticipating and solving problems, and one of them is fluent in the language of the country you are in.
The group travels in its own bus or in its own section of a train, reducing the amount of exposure.
ABD monitors each group and has contingency plans and resources in case of an emergency, including procuring medical help.
Obviously, Disney cannot and should not be expected to mitigate every risk, such as getting caught in a quarantine.  But I feel a lot better about going as part of an ABD group than doing the trip on my own.  That’s part of the value I’m getting from paying them so much $$.


----------



## SirDuff

tidefan said:


> Not in the medical field, but am a statistician.  What I find interesting is how South Korea seems to be an outlier.  They are up to 3,526 cases, but only have 18 deaths.  That is a CFR of .005 (0.5%).  So, my guess is one of two things.  One, is South Korea doing a better job of testing everyone, so they get a better handle on what the true population is, or Two, their outbreak started in a church.  Not in a hospital (like in Italy) or spread in a Long-Term Care Facility (Washington State) where you would have already an immuno-compromised population.



Epidemiologist here.  My guess is that it is both.  The first is part of the reason that I keep hammering on about the CFR being (very likely) an overestimate (likely a significant one).  We don't have any models that allow us to estimate true incidence rate based on confirmed cases (for things like influenza, there are models that say (in very simplified terms), "for every X known cases there are an estimated Y undiagnosed cases").  The CFR is still an estimate with wide confidence intervals, but there is at least some ability to estimate true incidence.  

On the other hand, that same argument means that R0 is likely an underestimate - which is worrisome in terms of any chance of containment (though, honestly, I don't think that anyone really believes that containment is likely at this point).


----------



## disneyholic family

neurosx1983 said:


> Yes I'm going on the England/France ABD leaving March 12th. Are you in the UK? How is it over there? (Assuming you're in the Uk...)
> I'm honestly so far not concerned at all about the London portion, but France has me worrying a bit because they're cases are going up. They're at 100 cases as of today according to WHO. That makes them number 2 in Europe behind Italy.
> The other thing is that the Louvre is now closed. What's next...Versailles? Eiffel Tower? At some point this trip that I'm spending so much money on for my family is going to start looking very different than when we planned it.
> 
> So anyway yes I'll be making a decision by the end of this week. I'm trying to hold out as long as I can incase ABD cancels so I can get a refund. But there's also a good chance that I might still go if they don't cancel because of my blind faith in the Disney brand to protect me! lol
> 
> Seriously though, it sucks. I'm not sure how this is going to play out. I'm making plans for a backup incase it falls through. One thing is for sure I am NOT staying home (in the cold northeast) for vacation!



The number of confirmed cases in France as of yesterday was already 130, not 100.
Disney needs to cancel your trip.

As of this morning, the UK only has 36 confirmed cases, but i believe that 12 of those are from yesterday.
So it seems possible that it may break past containment in the UK as well, though the UK authorities have been pretty stringent in their dealings with the disease.

No i'm not in the UK, i'm in israel.

Italy seems to be having the greatest impact in Europe and here as well.
Our 4 non-diamond princess patients are travelers who returned from Italy.
From what i've read, many of the newly ill in the UK also returned from Italy.
We have 7 confirmed cases, 3 from the diamond princess and 4 confirmed last week, all people who had just returned from Italy.

One of the Diamond Princess cases is interesting.
He was hospitalized in Japan (taken off the ship).
Last week he tested negative and was released from the japanese hospital.
Upon arrival in Israel on Friday he was tested again and found to be positive for the virus and sent back into quarantine.
So is it a problem with the testing being done in Japan?
Possibly, given that the other 2 diamond princess patients here both also tested negative in japan, but positive when they arrived here.

Edit:  i believe we now have 7 non-diamond princess cases, all related to travel to Italy. 
and Jordan just confirmed their first case, also someone who just returned from Italy.
.
.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

Eastridge said:


> There's probably no advantage to making a firm decision right now when you still have a month until final payment.
> 
> Delta suspended flights to Milan for a while and appears to be offering refunds for those.  So if the region still has the same advisories for your July trip, I would guess that you could get your money back from Delta.  If you booked through ABD air, then ABD would also refund your airfare.
> 
> https://www.travelmarketreport.com/articles/Delta-Air-Lines-Temporarily-Suspends-Flights-to-Milan
> I see three options for your situation:
> 
> 1) You can pay in full.  Then you are in the same situation as me, waiting for your trip and leaving it to the CDC and ABD to cancel if they judge the risk is too high.  You will get all your money back if they cancel.  But does your risk tolerance match that of CDC and ABD?  As others have said, I do believe that Disney won't risk damaging its brand by proceeding with a trip that they should have cancelled.
> 
> 2) You can switch to a different ABD trip before the PIF date.  But then you have to predict the future and pick a trip and date that won't have the same problem.  Given that Italy is in the Schengen region, which covers virtually all the European destinations that ABD goes to, it is hard to be certain that any particular trip will remain unaffected.
> 
> *3) You can "park" your deposit and not commit to a specific trip for now, but I don't know how long it can stay parked.*
> 
> Good luck with your decision.



Could someone please clarify "parking" a deposit?  I have two ABDs coming up.  I could actually get my deposit back on one of them if I cancel by Wednesday, but I would really like to take the trip if this all blows over, so I'm not sure what to do.  Our other deposit is non-refundable at this point.  I would certainly love the ability to "park" deposits as opposed to having to transfer deposits to other trips at this point to maintain a little flexibility.   Any info is greatly appreciated.

Non-ABD related, but we are supposed to go to Mexico and then WDW in just a few weeks.  My only concern, at this point, in traveling to Mexico, is medical care and a language barrier should one of us get sick (but, then again, that could happen regardless of Covid-19).  We are traveling to an area that has zero cases so, perhaps my concern is unsubstantiated.


----------



## lovetotravel

I wish I new about parking a deposit as well in detail. After I cancelled my ABD Asia, I moved it to another trip this summer that I felt was "safer" due to no cases, but here we are...more cases so I assume I loose my whole trip if I cancel since I moved monies to the new trip, which I realize now was not the best move. So I am going to have to go on that trip because it is with ABD and I trust they will cancel if there are significant safety concerns. But I am hoping that if Disney cancels, I get a refund if this was already a moved trip or let me move it again.


----------



## Renarr

A little bit more to support the notion that cases are almost certainly underreported, and thus that true mortality rate is lower than reported:

https://threader.app/thread/1233970271318503426
The author, Trevor Bedford, studies this kind of stuff for one of our local area hospitals, as I understand it.


----------



## lovetotravel

Renarr said:


> A little bit more to support the notion that cases are almost certainly underreported, and thus that true mortality rate is lower than reported:
> 
> https://threader.app/thread/1233970271318503426
> The author, Trevor Bedford, studies this kind of stuff for one of our local area hospitals, as I understand it.



Yes I have feared that cases are underreport, delayed, never tested, or waiting to be tested!


----------



## Mrs. Ciz

Networth said:


> I am an infectious disease nurse practitioner who has been keeping an eye on COVID-19 since early January. I work closely with UF and round in their Gainesville and Jacksonville hospitals. As someone else mentioned in this thread please, only get your information from the WHO and/or CDC. Many news articles I have read seem to have out dated or incorrect information with questionable sources.
> 
> Our ID department works closely with the FL health department who has been in contact with the CDC daily. Everyone I speak to is hoping the tied turns once the weather warms globally. Also of note is that there has been some success with current antiviral medications. Using broad-spectrum antiviral drugs like Nucleoside analogues may disrupt the viral infection until a novel antiviral becomes available.
> 
> Several groups of researchers are currently working to develop a primate model to study COVID-19 to establish/fast track therapies and for testing potential vaccines in addition to providing a better understanding of virus-host interactions. This will get solved, it’s just a matter of time (I am an eternal optimist).
> 
> We currently are booked on a Greece ABD May 8th and have plans to be in Paris/DLP from May 17th-25th and I am staying hopefully optimistic.


Not ABD related, but what are your thoughts on the hordes of college kids that are getting ready to descend on Florida for Spring Break?  My daughter and 40 of her friends are leaving Virginia for Daytona Beach in five days.  They are staying for a week.  I am hoping they are ahead of widespread community spread and will be ok.  They will be around tons of other college kids, not necessarily the general public though.  

As it is, I think when all the kids come back to college campuses after traveling far and wide over Spring Break, some will bring the virus back to campuses.  I think it's inevitable, but I don't want to knowingly put my DD in harm's way.


----------



## laceltris3

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/02/health/wuhan-evacuee-san-antonio/index.html
The thing is that I don't feel like we are necessarily any safer here. Also, in the US we certainly have many more cases than have been reported. As of last week we had tested fewer than 500. China can now test 1.6 million per week. SK has also much better testing capabilities now (over 65K tested). Also the WSJ is reporting there was a manufacturing defect in some of the tests manufactured by the CDC, aside from the possible contamination in the lab.

https://www.axios.com/cdc-lab-coronavirus-contaminated-6dc9726d-dea3-423f-b5ad-eb7b1e44c2e2.html

A week ago in The Atlantic a Harvard epidemiologist said it was likely 40 to 70% of the world population could contract it in the next year. At the time it sounded crazy. Now not so much. 

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/02/covid-vaccine/607000/I know the real risk, including with mortality, is the strain on healthcare systems in a broad outbreak, but at this point, I don't think there is much we can do other than be prepared to be quarantined for a few weeks.


----------



## Magnum_PI

laceltris3 said:


> The thing is that I don't feel like we are necessarily any safer here.



Lol, it may be pessimistic, but I largely agree with this sentiment.  On the other hand, the silver lining to that (to me) it makes travel to non-CDC Level 3 Warning places seem less risky.  I'll only be withdrawing from my upcoming ABD if Disney decides to cancel.  And I'm one of those immunocompromised people you keep hearing about, lol.  I live in New York City.  If I get it here, it's going to be at work or on the subway most likely.  Wash your hands frequently no matter where you're going (or not going), guys...!


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Mrs. Ciz said:


> Not ABD related, but what are your thoughts on the hordes of college kids that are getting ready to descend on Florida for Spring Break?  My daughter and 40 of her friends are leaving Virginia for Daytona Beach in five days.  They are staying for a week.  I am hoping they are ahead of widespread community spread and will be ok.  They will be around tons of other college kids, not necessarily the general public though.
> 
> As it is, I think when all the kids come back to college campuses after traveling far and wide over Spring Break, some will bring the virus back to campuses.  I think it's inevitable, but I don't want to knowingly put my DD in harm's way.


According to local news there have been 2 confirmed cases in Florida. One in the Sarasota area and the other in the Tampa area. I agree with you and the fear about college kids bringing it back to campus is real. I have heard that one very prestigious college (a friend has a daughter that attends) is prepared to cancel the spring semester if anyone tests positive after spring break.


----------



## Mrs. Ciz

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> According to local news there have been 2 confirmed cases in Florida. One in the Sarasota area and the other in the Tampa area. I agree with you and the fear about college kids bringing it back to campus is real. I have heard that one very prestigious college (a friend has a daughter that attends) is prepared to cancel the spring semester if anyone tests positive after spring break.


A teacher I work with has a niece at Northwestern.  She said Northwestern is on the quarter system vs Semester System.  Her niece told her the university is thinking of cancelling Spring Break all together.  Not a bad idea.


----------



## aggiedog

There's been several articles in the news discussing the 1918 flu pandemic and containment strategies used then, or not.  Philadelphia, in a "rose colored glasses" attitude that it really wasn't all that bad (partly because our government was not completely transparent about the facts in an effort to "keep up morale"), went ahead with a huge parade soon after 100's of troops came home from Europe to the city.  They had a huge outbreak and one of the highest numbers of fatalities in the country.  Other cities, that were more cautious and canceled large gatherings, had much lower rates of flu and deaths.

Some of the concern is not "could I die from this" since most likely any given person won't, but could I bring this back with me and infect more people.  While I'm not an alarmist, I do think perhaps not traveling and not attending large gatherings may be in everyone's best interest for a while.


----------



## Networth

Mrs. Ciz said:


> Not ABD related, but what are your thoughts on the hordes of college kids that are getting ready to descend on Florida for Spring Break?  My daughter and 40 of her friends are leaving Virginia for Daytona Beach in five days.  They are staying for a week.  I am hoping they are ahead of widespread community spread and will be ok.  They will be around tons of other college kids, not necessarily the general public though.
> 
> As it is, I think when all the kids come back to college campuses after traveling far and wide over Spring Break, some will bring the virus back to campuses.  I think it's inevitable, but I don't want to knowingly put my DD in harm's way.



My feelings are that it will likely spread to some of the college students (not necessary your daughter or her friends). The spring breakers will be around the general public in hotels, bars, restaurants and stores which are all staffed or frequented by the general public. Intoxicated college students are not known to make the most sound choices. Not washing your hands, not touching your face, sharing food/drinks and attributing signs/symptoms of possible illness to being hungover is obviously not helpful. Also if I am being blunt many of those students will be in close physical contact with one another to some degree. Many of these students will be from all over the country.

However, COVID-19 has demonstrated it can be quite mild in healthy adults. So the question is will some spring breaker get sick enough to be tested and therefore be shown to be positive for COVID-19?


----------



## Plutofan

It looks like ABD is canceling some tours.  I just talked to them about our June Italy tour and asked about if they had to cancel any and they told me Italy tours for March/April are being canceled today.  You will need to confirm that this information is correct.


----------



## Mrs. Ciz

Networth said:


> My feelings are that it will likely spread to some of the college students (not necessary your daughter or her friends). The spring breakers will be around the general public in hotels, bars, restaurants and stores which are all staffed or frequented by the general public. Intoxicated college students are not known to make the most sound choices. Not washing your hands, not touching your face, not sharing food/drinks and attributing signs/symptoms of possible illness to being hungover is obviously not helpful. Also if I am being blunt many of those students will be in close physical contact with one another to some degree. Many of these students will be from all over the country.
> 
> However, COVID-19 has demonstrated it can be quite mild in healthy adults. So the question is will some spring breaker get sick enough to be tested and therefore shown to be positive for COVID-19?


Thank you for answering.  I agree with everything you said.  My daughter is going with her boyfriend and his fraternity, so she won't be getting "physically close" to anyone she is not regularly physically close to (haha), and luckily, the group likes to hang out together vs with outside folks.  But bars, restaurants, grocery stores - you are right, those will be a problem.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

I just got an e-mail from Austin Adventures and found this very interesting. It would be very nice if ABD also implemented a "lightened" cancellation policy:

_Now in an honest and sincere attempt to calm travel fears without making light of a serious subject. Last time I checked, we do not have a crystal ball, and no one knows where we will be in 30-60-90 days. While I remain confident, the real experts are working diligently to get this situation under control, and it will not adversely affect our summer adventures. To this end, we are starting by implementing an immediate “lightened” cancellation policy. Effective immediately, any booked traveler with Austin Adventures has the “right” to postpone any adventure and transfer or apply all associated AA related expenses to another adventure either at a different destination or future date without penalty. No questions asked. Call it Peace of Mind Insurance. These changes must be requested at least 45 days before scheduled travel. An escrow account can be set up without having to commit to where or when. Period! We are suggesting holding off booking air travel until we get closer to travel dates, interestingly enough this could have the benefit of reduced airfares. You might also consider “Cancel for any reason” Trip insurance offered by our carrier Trip Mate. Its an added expense but might give you that peace of mind you are looking for.  https://scenicgroup.tripmate.com/main/trip-cancellation-and-cancel-for-any-reason/_


----------



## Calfan

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I just got an e-mail from Austin Adventures and found this very interesting. It would be very nice if ABD also implemented a "lightened" cancellation policy:
> 
> _Now in an honest and sincere attempt to calm travel fears without making light of a serious subject. Last time I checked, we do not have a crystal ball, and no one knows where we will be in 30-60-90 days. While I remain confident, the real experts are working diligently to get this situation under control, and it will not adversely affect our summer adventures. To this end, we are starting by implementing an immediate “lightened” cancellation policy. Effective immediately, any booked traveler with Austin Adventures has the “right” to postpone any adventure and transfer or apply all associated AA related expenses to another adventure either at a different destination or future date without penalty. No questions asked. Call it Peace of Mind Insurance. These changes must be requested at least 45 days before scheduled travel. An escrow account can be set up without having to commit to where or when. Period! We are suggesting holding off booking air travel until we get closer to travel dates, interestingly enough this could have the benefit of reduced airfares. You might also consider “Cancel for any reason” Trip insurance offered by our carrier Trip Mate. Its an added expense but might give you that peace of mind you are looking for.  https://scenicgroup.tripmate.com/main/trip-cancellation-and-cancel-for-any-reason/_



I got the same email as a past Austin Adventures traveler.  Agree that it is a very nice move on their part.


----------



## disneyholic family

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I just got an e-mail from Austin Adventures and found this very interesting. It would be very nice if ABD also implemented a "lightened" cancellation policy:
> 
> _Now in an honest and sincere attempt to calm travel fears without making light of a serious subject. Last time I checked, we do not have a crystal ball, and no one knows where we will be in 30-60-90 days. While I remain confident, the real experts are working diligently to get this situation under control, and it will not adversely affect our summer adventures. To this end, we are starting by implementing an immediate “lightened” cancellation policy. Effective immediately, any booked traveler with Austin Adventures has the “right” to postpone any adventure and transfer or apply all associated AA related expenses to another adventure either at a different destination or future date without penalty. No questions asked. Call it Peace of Mind Insurance. These changes must be requested at least 45 days before scheduled travel. An escrow account can be set up without having to commit to where or when. Period! We are suggesting holding off booking air travel until we get closer to travel dates, interestingly enough this could have the benefit of reduced airfares. You might also consider “Cancel for any reason” Trip insurance offered by our carrier Trip Mate. Its an added expense but might give you that peace of mind you are looking for.  https://scenicgroup.tripmate.com/main/trip-cancellation-and-cancel-for-any-reason/_



that makes so much business sense.
I don't know why disney isn't doing the same or at least a more lenient policy than is currently in place.
.


----------



## Donalyn

The Harvard guy's prediction that 40 to 70% of the world population would be infected within a year didn't sound crazy to me a week ago.  Containment never was a realistic goal, given the time frame before the seriousness was recognized and China started acting.  This hasn't been containable since it became apparent that you can pass it along before you start to feel sick.  Add that to the interconnected world we live in and it is every where (even if the reported case numbers don't show it yet).  

We all just need to prepare for a bumpy year and hope that we can spread out the cases over time so that everyone in need of high end medical intervention can get the care that they need.  We also need to improve our testing capabilities.

I also believe that at some point, this will become like the flu, after we all get our first exposure to it and develop some immunity.  But getting to that point will, most likely, be painful on many fronts.  (And I really worry for the people in countries with less medical infrastructure.)


----------



## lovetotravel

We just cancelled OYO trip to Netherlands for spring break. Staying home seemed to be the most enjoyable thing at this point. Some things I learned about canceling trips: Right now, Delta is waiving all change fees and penalties for international flights and are issuing a credit to be used 1 year from original ticketed date. If you have non-ABD insurance, you can transfer the insurance to another trip if they allow it, mine did not but some will. I don't know if ABD allows you to move your insurance to a new trip without a fee if they cancel your trip. We had minimal loss, except for a private tour guide who charged us time for working on our itinerary and tickets purchased, but refunded most of our deposit.


----------



## Eastridge

DisneyWishes14 said:


> Could someone please clarify "parking" a deposit?  I have two ABDs coming up.  I could actually get my deposit back on one of them if I cancel by Wednesday, but I would really like to take the trip if this all blows over, so I'm not sure what to do.  Our other deposit is non-refundable at this point.  I would certainly love the ability to "park" deposits as opposed to having to transfer deposits to other trips at this point to maintain a little flexibility.   Any info is greatly appreciated.



I have never parked a deposit so I don't know the details, but I heard about others doing that.  Maybe someone who has done that can comment, or calling ABD directly would provide the definitive answer.


----------



## Travelling135

Eastridge said:


> I have never parked a deposit so I don't know the details, but I heard about others doing that.  Maybe someone who has done that can comment, or calling ABD directly would provide the definitive answer.


We cancelled our summer ABD last week before the PIF was due because of concerns re. Coronavirus. We will not receive our deposit back. Instead, it acts like a placeholder and we can use it towards another ABD as long as we book before May 2021. We can only move our deposit one time. However, we won't qualify for any discounts when we re-book - even though our original trip was booked with an early booking discount. That's frustrating. I feel that Disney should be making exemptions with the current situation. I wish they would refund deposits or allow us to use available discounts when re-booking.


----------



## Candycane83

Travelling135 said:


> We cancelled our summer ABD last week before the PIF was due because of concerns re. Coronavirus. We will not receive our deposit back. Instead, it acts like a placeholder and we can use it towards another ABD as long as we book before May 2021. We can only move our deposit one time. However, we won't qualify for any discounts when we re-book - even though our original trip was booked with an early booking discount. That's frustrating. I feel that Disney should be making exemptions with the current situation. I wish they would refund deposits or allow us to use available discounts when re-booking.


I did the same thing today and have until next year to book something. I wish there was a little more leeway too but it’s still far away so I understand.


----------



## disneyholic family

lovetotravel said:


> We just cancelled OYO trip to Netherlands for spring break. Staying home seemed to be the most enjoyable thing at this point. Some things I learned about canceling trips: Right now, Delta is waiving all change fees and penalties for international flights and are issuing a credit to be used 1 year from original ticketed date. If you have non-ABD insurance, you can transfer the insurance to another trip if they allow it, mine did not but some will. I don't know if ABD allows you to move your insurance to a new trip without a fee if they cancel your trip. We had minimal loss, except for a private tour guide who charged us time for working on our itinerary and tickets purchased, but refunded most of our deposit.



that's very reasonable of Delta. 
.


----------



## disneyholic family

neurosx1983 said:


> Yes I'm going on the England/France ABD leaving March 12th. Are you in the UK? How is it over there? (Assuming you're in the Uk...)
> I'm honestly so far not concerned at all about the London portion, but France has me worrying a bit because they're cases are going up. They're at 100 cases as of today according to WHO. That makes them number 2 in Europe behind Italy.
> The other thing is that the Louvre is now closed. What's next...Versailles? Eiffel Tower? At some point this trip that I'm spending so much money on for my family is going to start looking very different than when we planned it.
> 
> So anyway yes I'll be making a decision by the end of this week. I'm trying to hold out as long as I can incase ABD cancels so I can get a refund. But there's also a good chance that I might still go if they don't cancel because of my blind faith in the Disney brand to protect me! lol
> 
> Seriously though, it sucks. I'm not sure how this is going to play out. I'm making plans for a backup incase it falls through. One thing is for sure I am NOT staying home (in the cold northeast) for vacation!



no word from Disney yet?   they're still holding out for this tour?
Confirmed number of cases in  France is now 191
Confirmed UK cases were up to 39 yesterday, the additional cases all people returning from Italy (italy seems to be the source for all new cases throughout europe - also where i live).

i get that you have nothing to lose at this point by waiting disney out, to see if they'll cancel.

You shouldn't have any problem at all canceling your flights.
I don't know what airline you're on, per the post above, Delta is offering no-fee changes to international flights, plus a credit for the flight fare to be  used within a year.   Pretty reasonable (especially for delta).

There is no way i would go on that tour on the 12th.
.


----------



## knewton64

I Just canceled my Paris adventures......

Thankful I got a full refund



T.T.F.N.
&
CHEERS Y'ALL


----------



## neurosx1983

disneyholic family said:


> no word from Disney yet?   they're still holding out for this tour?
> Confirmed number of cases in  France is now 191
> Confirmed UK cases were up to 39 yesterday, the additional cases all people returning from Italy (italy seems to be the source for all new cases throughout europe - also where i live).
> 
> i get that you have nothing to lose at this point by waiting disney out, to see if they'll cancel.
> 
> You shouldn't have any problem at all canceling your flights.
> I don't know what airline you're on, per the post above, Delta is offering no-fee changes to international flights, plus a credit for the flight fare to be  used within a year.   Pretty reasonable (especially for delta).
> 
> There is no way i would go on that tour on the 12th.
> .



Every day this goes on the more worried I get. I can tell you that I’m pretty close to pulling the trigger on cancelling the ABD next week but I’m holding out hope that they’ll cancel and I won’t lose a lot of money.

im honestly not worried about the UK, but very worried about France. And plus I’m bummed that they’re starting to close places like the Louvre.


----------



## neurosx1983

knewton64 said:


> I Just canceled my Paris adventures......
> 
> Thankful I got a full refund
> 
> 
> 
> T.T.F.N.
> &
> CHEERS Y'ALL


ABD gave you a full refund ?


----------



## aggiedog

Time is getting away from me, and my mom reminded me we'll be in France end of June for a OYO trip, which is not as far away as I was thinking.  Hmmm.  We'll wait and see.


----------



## laceltris3

I am continuing to struggle with our Tauck Bridges France trip in early July. PIF is the end of the month. I bought business class on Air France during a sale last August... I am pretty sure I would have to eat that cost (times five of us) if I cancel. (AF language is pretty vague, but I *think* I would get hit with the $450 fee and would have to use the credit by August, which isn't happening if I cancel because of Coronavirus. I think that if France is at Level 3 the trip will be cancelled and I should be able to get a refund, but I am just going to have to wait. I think I would go at a level 2. I don't want to rely on the false security that our vastly under-reported numbers due to lack of testing of people without travel history are really any better than someplace like France or Germany.

I think that while a big chunk of the world is going to get this, it likely will calm down some in the summer months.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Just arrived in London after a wonderful flight. We were loaded down with Clorox wipes, hand sanitizer, masks, etc, but our first class cabin was about half empty and nary a cougher or sneezer in the bunch. I was thrilled. Felt like a private plane! Masks stayed in the bags  We are planning to do a lot of walking and avoid the tube (which we normally love) as much as possible. I was hoping to avoid the 24-7 on the virus and elections, but it's all over the broadcasts here, too.


----------



## Coffee66

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> Just arrived in London after a wonderful flight. We were loaded down with Clorox wipes, hand sanitizer, masks, etc, but our first class cabin was about half empty and nary a cougher or sneezer in the bunch. I was thrilled. Felt like a private plane! Masks stayed in the bags  We are planning to do a lot of walking and avoid the tube (which we normally love) as much as possible. I was hoping to avoid the 24-7 on the virus and elections, but it's all over the broadcasts here, too.


Say hi to the queen... Hey look for Royal family dinnerware.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Coffee66 said:


> Say hi to the queen... Hey look for Royal family dinnerware.


LOL, we might actually try to go see the whole royal family (including Meghan and Harry) entering Westminster Abbey for Commonwealth Day services next week. We saw the queen at Royal Ascot last summer and it was a highlight


----------



## neurosx1983

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> LOL, we might actually try to go see the whole royal family (including Meghan and Harry) entering Westminster Abbey for Commonwealth Day services next week. We saw the queen at Royal Ascot last summer and it was a highlight



nice!
Gives me encouragement. What airline? We’re on BA first out of jfk


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

neurosx1983 said:


> nice!
> Gives me encouragement. What airline? We’re on BA first out of jfk



BA first out of SFO! I just posted a mini review in the churner thread: https://www.disboards.com/threads/i...r-addl-details.3784063/page-461#post-61632088 

We fly back Virgin Upper.


----------



## Coffee66

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> LOL, we might actually try to go see the whole royal family (including Meghan and Harry) entering Westminster Abbey for Commonwealth Day services next week. We saw the queen at Royal Ascot last summer and it was a highlight


Cool. Up in Niagara on the lake . You can still buy Chuck and Diana China. It's all over the place in the gift shops.


----------



## morgan98

Well, I am 99.9% positive I am not leaving for Italy as scheduled on the 12th.  My flights was Atlanta - JFK - Milan and the JFK-Milan leg is actually an Alitalia flight (Delta code share) and it appears you can still book that ticket to Milan. I am sad but will call Delta when the wait isn't so long for a credit to be used in the next year.  We travel to Italy often so that is fine.

My husband is currently in Italy - in Florence.  He needs to take a test on Friday for a certification he has been studying for.  He will be calling in the next couple of days to try to get home early next week.  I am still not afraid of the virus, but with the restrictions and the screenings, I really don't want to be stuck, have to quarantine, etc.  My company put out a message about limiting travel and self quarantining for 14 days if you travel to the impacted zones.  While I could work from home for two weeks, I don't want to be THAT person.  My husband, is retired with a hobby job so if he has to live in the basement by himself for two weeks that is not the end of the world.  He wasn't supposed to come home until the 24th anyway.

I feel that the date of my travel being the 12th (next Thursday) is in what I would call the window of uncertainty, as we wait to see if Italy can successfully stabilize the situation over there are things start to heat up here.  I feel that if I were going on April 12th instead, there may be a clearer path forward - although I know major airlines have cancelled flighst to Northern Italy until end of April.  However, I would not be opposed to flying into a different airport.

But, Italy will be there and I will go as soon as I can.  Good luck to everyone with the tough decisions.

ETA:  I love Italy, my mom was born there, we speak the language, we have relatives, my husband has dual citizenship and we have spoken of potentially living there.  A part of me hates to give up the trip because the economy there is so fragile and I sort of feel like I am throwing in the towel.  But sometimes issues are bigger than you are, so to speak.  Thanks for listening!


----------



## lovetotravel

morgan98 said:


> I feel that the date of my travel being the 12th (next Thursday) is in what I would call the window of uncertainty, as we wait to see if Italy can successfully stabilize the situation over there are things start to heat up here.  I feel that if I were going on April 12th instead, there may be a clearer path forward - although I know major airlines have cancelled flighst to Northern Italy until end of April.  However, I would not be opposed to flying into a different airport.
> 
> But, Italy will be there and I will go as soon as I can.  Good luck to everyone with the tough decisions.



Milan is one of the impacted airports. Perhaps they will give a full refund and not a credit. The credit must be used 1 year from original ticketing date or the date you bought it. 

I feel the same way that Europe will always be there.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

lovetotravel said:


> We just cancelled OYO trip to Netherlands for spring break. Staying home seemed to be the most enjoyable thing at this point. Some things I learned about canceling trips: *Right now, Delta is waiving all change fees and penalties for international flights and are issuing a credit to be used 1 year from original ticketed date.* If you have non-ABD insurance, you can transfer the insurance to another trip if they allow it, mine did not but some will. I don't know if ABD allows you to move your insurance to a new trip without a fee if they cancel your trip. We had minimal loss, except for a private tour guide who charged us time for working on our itinerary and tickets purchased, but refunded most of our deposit.



Thank you so much for posting this.  We have international tickets with Delta, leaving in less than two weeks.  Did you outright cancel your tickets?  Or did you change them to future dates?  I put a call in to Delta, but estimated call back time is 2 hours (which is fine - I can be patient!).  I was going to go online to cancel, but it's still saying we will be charged $200 per ticket if we cancel.  If we reschedule our trip, it won't be until March 2021 and they don't even have flights released for those dates yet, so I have nothing really to change our flights to at this time.


----------



## neurosx1983

morgan98 said:


> Well, I am 99.9% positive I am not leaving for Italy as scheduled on the 12th.  My flights was Atlanta - JFK - Milan and the JFK-Milan leg is actually an Alitalia flight (Delta code share) and it appears you can still book that ticket to Milan. I am sad but will call Delta when the wait isn't so long for a credit to be used in the next year.  We travel to Italy often so that is fine.
> 
> My husband is currently in Italy - in Florence.  He needs to take a test on Friday for a certification he has been studying for.  He will be calling in the next couple of days to try to get home early next week.  I am still not afraid of the virus, but with the restrictions and the screenings, I really don't want to be stuck, have to quarantine, etc.  My company put out a message about limiting travel and self quarantining for 14 days if you travel to the impacted zones.  While I could work from home for two weeks, I don't want to be THAT person.  My husband, is retired with a hobby job so if he has to live in the basement by himself for two weeks that is not the end of the world.  He wasn't supposed to come home until the 24th anyway.
> 
> I feel that the date of my travel being the 12th (next Thursday) is in what I would call the window of uncertainty, as we wait to see if Italy can successfully stabilize the situation over there are things start to heat up here.  I feel that if I were going on April 12th instead, there may be a clearer path forward - although I know major airlines have cancelled flighst to Northern Italy until end of April.  However, I would not be opposed to flying into a different airport.
> 
> But, Italy will be there and I will go as soon as I can.  Good luck to everyone with the tough decisions.
> 
> ETA:  I love Italy, my mom was born there, we speak the language, we have relatives, my husband has dual citizenship and we have spoken of potentially living there.  A part of me hates to give up the trip because the economy there is so fragile and I sort of feel like I am throwing in the towel.  But sometimes issues are bigger than you are, so to speak.  Thanks for listening!



not to belabor the point… But just speaking for myself, France seems to be a real grey area. Not a definite ban on travel like Italy but also not as benign as the UK looks. New York Times says 200 cases in France today so it’s definitely going up. Anyway, I hope some clarity will come to this situation very soon!


----------



## morgan98

lovetotravel said:


> Milan is one of the impacted airports. Perhaps they will give a full refund and not a credit. The credit must be used 1 year from original ticketing date or the date you bought it.
> 
> I feel the same way that Europe will always be there.



I know that Milan is one of the impacted airports, but it seems they will not give a credit because it is an Alitalia flight and is not technically cancelled.  But a different agent may have a different answer...lol.  We tend to go twice a year anyway, so I am good with either way.


----------



## morgan98

neurosx1983 said:


> not to belabor the point… But just speaking for myself, France seems to be a real grey area. Not a definite ban on travel like Italy but also not as benign as the UK looks. New York Times says 200 cases in France today so it’s definitely going up. Anyway, I hope some clarity will come to this situation very soon!



I feel I have clarity - I am not going, at lest for now.  I am interested in what my husband finds as a route for coming home sooner than planned.


----------



## lovetotravel

DisneyWishes14 said:


> Thank you so much for posting this.  We have international tickets with Delta, leaving in less than two weeks.  Did you outright cancel your tickets?  Or did you change them to future dates?  I put a call in to Delta, but estimated call back time is 2 hours (which is fine - I can be patient!).  I was going to go online to cancel, but it's still saying we will be charged $200 per ticket if we cancel.  If we reschedule our trip, it won't be until March 2021 and they don't even have flights released for those dates yet, so I have nothing really to change our flights to at this time.


Call and do not do it online. I waited an hour before I got an agent. I outright cancelled the flight and gave COVID 19 as my reason. They said they are waiving change fees for international flight changes. My ticket is cancelled and the eticket number will serve as my credit. I have until 1 year from date of purchase, make sure you understand that because I had to think about it and ask for a clarification. Basically I bought my ticket in Sep 2019 for travel in March 2020. So I have until the date of my purchase Sep 2020 to use the credit. I have to call to use the credit when I figure out where I want to use it. The penalty will be waived when I make the new reservation and there is supposed to be a note on my eticket number that this was the cancellation agreement. If you get an agent that isn’t sure and won’t do it, call back or ask for a supervisor.


----------



## disneyholic family

morgan98 said:


> Well, I am 99.9% positive I am not leaving for Italy as scheduled on the 12th.  My flights was Atlanta - JFK - Milan and the JFK-Milan leg is actually an Alitalia flight (Delta code share) and it appears you can still book that ticket to Milan. I am sad but will call Delta when the wait isn't so long for a credit to be used in the next year.  We travel to Italy often so that is fine.
> 
> My husband is currently in Italy - in Florence.  He needs to take a test on Friday for a certification he has been studying for.  He will be calling in the next couple of days to try to get home early next week.  I am still not afraid of the virus, but with the restrictions and the screenings, I really don't want to be stuck, have to quarantine, etc.  My company put out a message about limiting travel and self quarantining for 14 days if you travel to the impacted zones.  While I could work from home for two weeks, I don't want to be THAT person.  My husband, is retired with a hobby job so if he has to live in the basement by himself for two weeks that is not the end of the world.  He wasn't supposed to come home until the 24th anyway.
> 
> I feel that the date of my travel being the 12th (next Thursday) is in what I would call the window of uncertainty, as we wait to see if Italy can successfully stabilize the situation over there are things start to heat up here.  I feel that if I were going on April 12th instead, there may be a clearer path forward - although I know major airlines have cancelled flighst to Northern Italy until end of April.  However, I would not be opposed to flying into a different airport.
> 
> But, Italy will be there and I will go as soon as I can.  Good luck to everyone with the tough decisions.
> 
> ETA:  I love Italy, my mom was born there, we speak the language, we have relatives, my husband has dual citizenship and we have spoken of potentially living there.  A part of me hates to give up the trip because the economy there is so fragile and I sort of feel like I am throwing in the towel.  But sometimes issues are bigger than you are, so to speak.  Thanks for listening!



wise decision.
Every single case we have in my country (other than the diamond princess ones) are people who returned from Milan.
Milan is probably the worst place you could go right now other than China.  
As you said, Italy's not going anywhere.  You can go when the situation clarifies.

My sister's funeral is on Thursday (in the USA).  
I have the tail end of bronchitis, so i probably shouldn't go for that reason alone.
But being in the high risk group, there is no way i'm traveling now. 
Between airports and airplanes, the risk is just too high.
My sister will certainly forgive me.  

.


----------



## lovetotravel

neurosx1983 said:


> not to belabor the point… But just speaking for myself, France seems to be a real grey area. Not a definite ban on travel like Italy but also not as benign as the UK looks. New York Times says 200 cases in France today so it’s definitely going up. Anyway, I hope some clarity will come to this situation very soon!



Interesting question to ask ABD about the London trip ...Why did Disney cancel an event in the U.K. due to COVID 19 concerns?

https://variety.com/2020/tv/news/di...an-media-launch-event-coronavirus-1203522211/


----------



## morgan98

disneyholic family said:


> wise decision.
> Every single case we have in my country (other than the diamond princess ones) are people who returned from Milan.
> Milan is probably the worst place you could go right now other than China.
> As you said, Italy's not going anywhere.  You can go when the situation clarifies.
> 
> My sister's funeral is on Thursday (in the USA).
> I have the tail end of bronchitis, so i probably shouldn't go for that reason alone.
> But being in the high risk group, there is no way i'm traveling now.
> Between airports and airplanes, the risk is just too high.
> My sister will certainly forgive me.
> 
> .



Yes, but I was not going to stay in Milan at all.   My husband is currently in Italy and has had absolutely zero issues and things are relatively normal.  It is all just frustrating a bit.

Sorry to hear about your situation too - a vacation pales in comparison, but things are just very uncertain.


----------



## neurosx1983

lovetotravel said:


> Interesting question to ask ABD about the London trip ...Why did Disney cancel an event in the U.K. due to COVID 19 concerns?
> 
> https://variety.com/2020/tv/news/di...an-media-launch-event-coronavirus-1203522211/



Funny that they are concerned about the health of media execs but not ABD guests! OK that might be a bit harsh...

And on an annoying note, I'm getting frustrated with the 'vacationistas' who have become so unbelievably robotic with their responses. You can't get even a hint of a human response from them about this situation. They're literally reading from a script.


----------



## disneyholic family

morgan98 said:


> Yes, but I was not going to stay in Milan at all.   My husband is currently in Italy and has had absolutely zero issues and things are relatively normal.  It is all just frustrating a bit.
> 
> Sorry to hear about your situation too - a vacation pales in comparison, but things are just very uncertain.


from everything the experts here are saying, anywhere in northern italy is going to be a problem. 
it has blown way past containment there. It's raging out of control.
The danger is second only to china.
There's just no reason to risk it.
And what everyone is saying that "it's just a cold" is completely wrong.
All  you have to do is look at a few xrays to see the extraordinary progression that can occur. Colds don't behave that way.
There's simply no reason to play with fire.
However, if you do go (as some here crazily insist on doing), you really should self-quarantine afterwards for 2 weeks.
Just because you want to put yourself at risk, doesn't mean you should put other people at risk as well.

.


----------



## neurosx1983

disneyholic family said:


> from everything the experts here are saying, anywhere in northern italy is going to be a problem.
> it has blown way past containment there. It's raging out of control.
> The danger is second only to china.
> There's just no reason to risk it.
> And what everyone is saying that "it's just a cold" is completely wrong.
> All  you have to do is look at a few xrays to see the extraordinary progression that can occur. Colds don't behave that way.
> There's simply no reason to play with fire.
> However, if you do go (as some here crazily insist on doing), you really should self-quarantine afterwards for 2 weeks.
> Just because you want to put yourself at risk, doesn't mean you should put other people at risk as well.
> 
> .



I didn't even think it was a debate whether or not to go to Italy. CDC is saying DONT GO! In fact I think the white house put a travel ban on certain parts of Italy. It's probably a political decision not to make the entire country a travel ban....but given the number of cases there it should be.


----------



## sayhello

disneyholic family said:


> My sister's funeral is on Thursday (in the USA).
> I have the tail end of bronchitis, so i probably shouldn't go for that reason alone.
> But being in the high risk group, there is no way i'm traveling now.
> Between airports and airplanes, the risk is just too high.
> My sister will certainly forgive me.


I am so sorry for your loss!  


neurosx1983 said:


> And on an annoying note, I'm getting frustrated with the 'vacationistas' who have become so unbelievably robotic with their responses. You can't get even a hint of a human response from them about this situation. They're literally reading from a script.


Please be kind to your Vacationistas.  They are only the messengers.  I cannot IMAGINE what those poor people have been going through the last few weeks.  They don't make policy, they don't decide when trips are cancelled, they are as much in the dark about this as we are.  When they have information, they will give it to you.  I wouldn't want to be them, or anyone in Travel Customer Service these days!

Sayhello


----------



## KashasMom

BluesTraveler said:


> Taking a suggestion from the China changes thread, I thought I'd start one so people could talk about their upcoming travel and whether they're considering changing.  As I said on the China thread, we have a Galapagos/Ecuador trip in July (another company) that I think we are going to cancel.  Feels like a better year to explore somewhere we haven't been in the US.



We are also going to the Galapagos in July (another company) and no way I'm canceling unless something drastic happens between now and May when final payment is due. I'm not sure that I'd feel any more comfortable traveling in the U.S. (and I have no desire to go anywhere in the U.S.).


----------



## Networth

I am trying to decide wether to book our DLP portion after our Greece ABD. I would hope if something dramatic happens between now and the beginning/middle of May TWDC would provide refunds for any DLP packages booked. It’s the last large expense for our trip I have yet to book.


----------



## AddictedtoTravel

This is certainly a big boom for the travel insurance industry.


----------



## sayhello

AddictedtoTravel said:


> This is certainly a big boom for the travel insurance industry.


Only if people a) have no clue what travel insurance covers or b) are willing to shell out for "Cancel for Any Reason" coverage.  Most people are going to be sadly disappointed if they think their Trip Insurance is going to cover this.  Most policies do NOT cover epidemics/pandemics.

Sayhello


----------



## disneyholic family

this is a fun website...
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
.


----------



## BluesTraveler

KashasMom said:


> We are also going to the Galapagos in July (another company) and no way I'm canceling unless something drastic happens between now and May when final payment is due. I'm not sure that I'd feel any more comfortable traveling in the U.S. (and I have no desire to go anywhere in the U.S.).


Our final payment was due this week, so we felt like we had to make a decision.  If final payment weren't due until May we wouldn't have made a change this early, but it was just a financial risk assessment (and Ecuador does now have the virus).  Although we are disappointed not to go this year, we'll go another year.  And, we got all of our $$ back, including our initial deposit and airfare.   Happily there are lots of places in the US we are interested in visiting, so we've made alternative plans.


----------



## neurosx1983

KashasMom said:


> We are also going to the Galapagos in July (another company) and no way I'm canceling unless something drastic happens between now and May when final payment is due. I'm not sure that I'd feel any more comfortable traveling in the U.S. (and I have no desire to go anywhere in the U.S.).



Incidentally the galapagos might be the safest place in the world for coronavirus...because of its isolation. Hence the whole reason Darwin found all those rare animals there?


----------



## neurosx1983

ABD finally sent me an email saying:


Any guest or guide who has traveled from, to or through China, including Hong Kong and Macau, South Korea, Italy, Iran or Japan, within 14 days of their trip's departure will not be able to travel with _Adventures by Disney_.
Any guest who has been in contact with someone from these areas, including guests with connecting flights in these locations, also will not be able to travel, nor will anyone who has helped care for someone suspected or diagnosed with coronavirus, or who is currently subject to health monitoring for possible exposure. Guests who have air travel booked through _Adventures by Disney_ will automatically have their flights rebooked on an alternate route. Guests who booked their own air travel arrangements should contact their airlines directly to make the appropriate changes.

Seems like some obvious stuff...


----------



## lovetotravel

neurosx1983 said:


> ABD finally sent me an email saying:
> 
> 
> Any guest or guide who has traveled from, to or through China, including Hong Kong and Macau, South Korea, Italy, Iran or Japan, within 14 days of their trip's departure will not be able to travel with _Adventures by Disney_.
> Any guest who has been in contact with someone from these areas, including guests with connecting flights in these locations, also will not be able to travel, nor will anyone who has helped care for someone suspected or diagnosed with coronavirus, or who is currently subject to health monitoring for possible exposure. Guests who have air travel booked through _Adventures by Disney_ will automatically have their flights rebooked on an alternate route. Guests who booked their own air travel arrangements should contact their airlines directly to make the appropriate changes.
> 
> Seems like some obvious stuff...


Guess the trip is go then?


----------



## AddictedtoTravel

sayhello said:


> Only if people a) have no clue what travel insurance covers or b) are willing to shell out for "Cancel for Any Reason" coverage.  Most people are going to be sadly disappointed if they think their Trip Insurance is going to cover this.  Most policies do NOT cover epidemics/pandemics.
> 
> Sayhello


 I guess I should have added this . I was being a bit snarky, guess it didn’t translate...


----------



## Magnum_PI

Yea, the vacationistas are almost certainly operating with *very* strict instructions to not deviate from that script in any way, shape, or form.  I doubt they have much more information than we do, although I sympathize with wanting answers from Disney as an entity and not getting them.  Ambiguity (especially in situations that feel high-stakes with health/large sums of money involved) really sucks.

@disneyholic family I am so sorry for your loss.  And I agree that for sure your sister will forgive you for not traveling.  She would probably tell you to stay home if she could!

@CaliforniaGirl09 Have a wonderful time, and let us know how you get on!  I have a friend and co-worker heading out for London in a couple of days as well.  Stay well!~


----------



## sayhello

neurosx1983 said:


> ABD finally sent me an email saying:
> 
> 
> Any guest or guide who has traveled from, to or through China, including Hong Kong and Macau, South Korea, Italy, Iran or Japan, within 14 days of their trip's departure will not be able to travel with _Adventures by Disney_.
> Any guest who has been in contact with someone from these areas, including guests with connecting flights in these locations, also will not be able to travel, nor will anyone who has helped care for someone suspected or diagnosed with coronavirus, or who is currently subject to health monitoring for possible exposure. Guests who have air travel booked through _Adventures by Disney_ will automatically have their flights rebooked on an alternate route. Guests who booked their own air travel arrangements should contact their airlines directly to make the appropriate changes.
> 
> Seems like some obvious stuff...


They need to put it in writing.  That way, when people get denied from joining their ABD, ABD can point to the email and say "You were told".  

Sayhello


----------



## neurosx1983

Wonder if ABD guides will provide masks... What a fun way to spend a vacation! 

For all of you that are curious, though, remember those regular masks do absolutely nothing. The mask you need is called an N-95 respirator, and most hospitals now have those on lockdown. Because people have been trying to take them and sell them online... sad


----------



## Calfan

neurosx1983 said:


> Wonder if ABD guides will provide masks... What a fun way to spend a vacation!
> 
> For all of you that are curious, though, remember those regular masks do absolutely nothing. The mask you need is called an N-95 respirator, and most hospitals now have those on lockdown. Because people have been trying to take them and sell them online... sad



My husband actually bought some of the N-95 respirator masks when we were traveling to CA a couple of years ago during the wild fires in the Bay Area that severely impacted air quality.  Luckily, he was able to find them for use on our upcoming trips. Even better, we had extras, so I was able to send three to my 83 year old father, my sister and my Dad's caregiver/companion to wear on the plane for our upcoming Spring Break trip to Hawaii.


----------



## AquaDame

Calfan said:


> My husband actually bought some of the N-95 respirator masks when we were traveling to CA a couple of years ago during the wild fires in the Bay Area that severely impacted air quality.  Luckily, he was able to find them for use on our upcoming trips. Even better, we had extras, so I was able to send three to my 83 year old father, my sister and my Dad's caregiver/companion to wear on the plane for our upcoming Spring Break trip to Hawaii.



Same - though I STILL would have rather not had to live through those smokey summers... I ended up in the ER with one of the migraines that brought on!


----------



## lovetotravel

neurosx1983 said:


> ABD finally sent me an email saying:
> 
> 
> Any guest or guide who has traveled from, to or through China, including Hong Kong and Macau, South Korea, Italy, Iran or Japan, within 14 days of their trip's departure will not be able to travel with _Adventures by Disney_.
> Any guest who has been in contact with someone from these areas, including guests with connecting flights in these locations, also will not be able to travel, nor will anyone who has helped care for someone suspected or diagnosed with coronavirus, or who is currently subject to health monitoring for possible exposure. Guests who have air travel booked through _Adventures by Disney_ will automatically have their flights rebooked on an alternate route. Guests who booked their own air travel arrangements should contact their airlines directly to make the appropriate changes.
> 
> Seems like some obvious stuff...


Umm so does that mean that the SE Asia is a no go? Because I know for me I have to layover either in China, Japan or S Korea to get to SE Asia. 

Also for ABD Europe trips, I often do a second OYO trips to other countries which could impact the ability to do those trips if the layover country was added on the list. 

This is not looking good for my other PIF summer ABD trips. I will have to wait and see what happens.


----------



## pistonfan32

lovetotravel said:


> Call and do not do it online. I waited an hour before I got an agent. I outright cancelled the flight and gave COVID 19 as my reason. They said they are waiving change fees for international flight changes. My ticket is cancelled and the eticket number will serve as my credit. I have until 1 year from date of purchase, make sure you understand that because I had to think about it and ask for a clarification. Basically I bought my ticket in Sep 2019 for travel in March 2020. So I have until the date of my purchase Sep 2020 to use the credit. I have to call to use the credit when I figure out where I want to use it. The penalty will be waived when I make the new reservation and there is supposed to be a note on my eticket number that this was the cancellation agreement. If you get an agent that isn’t sure and won’t do it, call back or ask for a supervisor.



That one year timing stinks. I purchased $8,500 of tickets for 3 people in November 2019 for our July 31, 2020 Italy and Switzerland trip. The flights are to Milan and home from Zurich. If I decide to cancel, I have to use the $8,500 credit by November 2020. Not good. Where am I going to spend $8,500 for airline tickets. Hawaii here we come! My hope is that Delta is forced to cancel the Italy flights by the government and then they will refund the money.


----------



## BluesTraveler

pistonfan32 said:


> That one year timing stinks. I purchased $8,500 of tickets for 3 people in November 2019 for our July 31, 2020 Italy and Switzerland trip. The flights are to Milan and home from Zurich. If I decide to cancel, I have to use the $8,500 credit by November 2020. Not good. Where am I going to spend $8,500 for airline tickets. Hawaii here we come! My hope is that Delta is forced to cancel the Italy flights by the government and then they will refund the money.


I think this is worth double checking with Delta. We canceled a trip to France for this spring (for other reasons but boy am I glad now). I had booked the tickets August 8, 2019. Delta said that I just had to use the credit by August 8, 2020, But didn’t actually have to have completed the travel by that date. I only needed to have booked the travel using the credit.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

lovetotravel said:


> Call and do not do it online. I waited an hour before I got an agent. I outright cancelled the flight and gave COVID 19 as my reason. They said they are waiving change fees for international flight changes. My ticket is cancelled and the eticket number will serve as my credit. I have until 1 year from date of purchase, make sure you understand that because I had to think about it and ask for a clarification. Basically I bought my ticket in Sep 2019 for travel in March 2020. So I have until the date of my purchase Sep 2020 to use the credit. I have to call to use the credit when I figure out where I want to use it. The penalty will be waived when I make the new reservation and there is supposed to be a note on my eticket number that this was the cancellation agreement. If you get an agent that isn’t sure and won’t do it, call back or ask for a supervisor.



Thank you SO much!  I ended up talking to a Delta agent who was very knowledgable and told me to do exactly as you have described.  While on the phone, I did not cancel as we were still on the fence at that time, but I will call back and cancel tomorrow.  I will have until mid-December 2020 to re-book with the e-credit, so hopefully can either use it toward our Rhine cruise airfare for the summer (if we are still going to go) or for a trip to Puerto Rico in December.  Now I'm trying to figure out if I should cancel my July 2020 SoCal/DL ABD.  I have until tomorrow to get my deposit back.  I'm just a little skeptical of my "wait-and-see" attitude at this point as, if I had canceled our Mexico trip 11 days ago, I would have gotten a full refund.  Now I can only modify, but at least I won't lose anything.


----------



## pistonfan32

DisneyWishes14 said:


> Thank you SO much!  I ended up talking to a Delta agent who was very knowledgable and told me to do exactly as you have described.  While on the phone, I did not cancel as we were still on the fence at that time, but I will call back and cancel tomorrow.  I will have until mid-December 2020 to re-book with the e-credit, so hopefully can either use it toward our Rhine cruise airfare for the summer (if we are still going to go) or for a trip to Puerto Rico in December.  Now I'm trying to figure out if I should cancel my July 2020 SoCal/DL ABD.  I have until tomorrow to get my deposit back.  I'm just a little skeptical of my "wait-and-see" attitude at this point as, if I had canceled our Mexico trip 11 days ago, I would have gotten a full refund.  Now I can only modify, but at least I won't lose anything.



Just to clarify, you have until mid-December 2020 to re-book or under December 2020 to travel? I assume that means you originally booked your flights in December 2019.


----------



## lovetotravel

BluesTraveler said:


> I think this is worth double checking with Delta. We canceled a trip to France for this spring (for other reasons but boy am I glad now). I had booked the tickets August 8, 2019. Delta said that I just had to use the credit by August 8, 2020, But didn’t actually have to have completed the travel by that date. I only needed to have booked the travel using the credit.


Yes, it is good to confirm it and is how you describe it. Here is the exact cancellation language on the Delta website. This is exactly how the agent described to me on how to use the eticket credit. She said that travel had to start by the original ticket date not completed by the original ticketing purchase date, with the fee being waived currently for all international flights.

Per Delta website:
"Cancellation fees start at $200 depending on your itinerary (subject to change – the applicable fee is listed in the Fare Rules for your ticket), and you will receive the remaining value of your ticket as an eCredit. You must use your eCredit within one year from the date the ticket was issued."

Also for if anyone needs to cancel or purchase a Delta ticket, here are some new policies regarding COVID 19:
https://www.delta.com/us/en/advisories/other-alerts/coronavirus-travel-updates
If you need to purchase a flight by March 16, American has an interesting offer for future trips.
https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/no-change-fee-terms-and-conditions.jsp


----------



## Woodview

Think               Many  thousands  of   Tourists     will   NOT  Now   be travelling  to  U.S.A.  from Europe

          or other parts of the world     so  more & more      aircraft   will be   grounded 

   NO  flights   into   USA     ====  NO  flights   out of  USA


----------



## sayhello

BluesTraveler said:


> I think this is worth double checking with Delta. We canceled a trip to France for this spring (for other reasons but boy am I glad now). I had booked the tickets August 8, 2019. Delta said that I just had to use the credit by August 8, 2020, But didn’t actually have to have completed the travel by that date. I only needed to have booked the travel using the credit.


I really think it depends.  I had to cancel my trip to New York this past weekend, and Delta told me the credit was only good for *travel* through December 13, 2020 (purchased December 13, 2019).  That I had to take the trip by then to use the credit.

Sayhello


----------



## BluesTraveler

sayhello said:


> I really think it depends.  I had to cancel my trip to New York this past weekend, and Delta told me the credit was only good for *travel* through December 13, 2020 (purchased December 13, 2019).  That I had to take the trip by then to use the credit.
> 
> Sayhello


Yes it’s different for domestic flights vs international


----------



## ngl

laceltris3 said:


> I am continuing to struggle with our Tauck Bridges France trip in early July. PIF is the end of the month. I bought business class on Air France during a sale last August... I am pretty sure I would have to eat that cost (times five of us) if I cancel. (AF language is pretty vague, but I *think* I would get hit with the $450 fee and would have to use the credit by August, which isn't happening if I cancel because of Coronavirus. I think that if France is at Level 3 the trip will be cancelled and I should be able to get a refund, but I am just going to have to wait. I think I would go at a level 2. I don't want to rely on the false security that our vastly under-reported numbers due to lack of testing of people without travel history are really any better than someplace like France or Germany.
> 
> I think that while a big chunk of the world is going to get this, it likely will calm down some in the summer months.


We are on Tauck Bridges to Italy in early July as well. PIF is in late April for us, however, so have a bit more time although not much. It is looming. We used miles for our flights (DL and BA) and know we could typically redeposit for $ but hoping they waive those as well. Wondering what Tauck's position will be? I haven't heard if they have cancelled their Spring Break trips to Italy, France, etc but they are scheduled to go in the next few weeks. Would like to know what they are offering for cancellations (parking deposits, etc). Hoping we gain more clarity on all in the next month or so.


----------



## Sakura1017

BluesTraveler said:


> Our final payment was due this week, so we felt like we had to make a decision.  If final payment weren't due until May we wouldn't have made a change this early, but it was just a financial risk assessment (and Ecuador does now have the virus).  Although we are disappointed not to go this year, we'll go another year.  And, we got all of our $$ back, including our initial deposit and airfare.   Happily there are lots of places in the US we are interested in visiting, so we've made alternative plans.


Did they make it hard for you in tems of getting all your money back ie initial deposit? Did you have insurance with another company?


----------



## lovetotravel

For those concerned about ABD London trip:

BRIEF-NHS England Has Declared Coronavirus A "Level 4 Incident" Which Is The Highest Level Of Emergency- Sky News

https://www.reuters.com/article/brief-nhs-england-has-declared-coronavir-idUSFWN2AW0DV


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Magnum_PI said:


> @CaliforniaGirl09 Have a wonderful time, and let us know how you get on!  I have a friend and co-worker heading out for London in a couple of days as well.  Stay well!~



Thank you! It feels like business as usual so far with the caveat that the news and papers are pretty much nonstop coronavirus just like at home. 



Calfan said:


> My husband actually bought some of the N-95 respirator masks when we were traveling to CA a couple of years ago during the wild fires in the Bay Area that severely impacted air quality.  Luckily, he was able to find them for use on our upcoming trips. Even better, we had extras, so I was able to send three to my 83 year old father, my sister and my Dad's caregiver/companion to wear on the plane for our upcoming Spring Break trip to Hawaii.



We had some N95s from our trip to China. We also happened to hit Ace a while back when they got a shipment of industrial masks with liners that filter to .1 microns. Who knew CA wildfires and air pollution would come in so handy


----------



## BluesTraveler

Sakura1017 said:


> Did they make it hard for you in tems of getting all your money back ie initial deposit? Did you have insurance with another company?


No, not hard at all.  This was a 10 day trip through Celebrity, with 3 nights in Quito (guided) and 7 nights on their ship Flora.  The cost of the trip included airfare and deposit was fully refundable.  We did buy separate trip insurance (because the total cost of this trip was higher than the coverage we get through our credit card) but it would not have covered canceling just out of our own concerns, so that's the only $$ we "lost", except that if we book another trip before August 2020 we can transfer the trip insurance to that other trip.


----------



## disneyholic family

neurosx1983 said:


> ABD finally sent me an email saying:
> 
> 
> Any guest or guide who has traveled from, to or through China, including Hong Kong and Macau, South Korea, Italy, Iran or Japan, within 14 days of their trip's departure will not be able to travel with _Adventures by Disney_.
> Any guest who has been in contact with someone from these areas, including guests with connecting flights in these locations, also will not be able to travel, nor will anyone who has helped care for someone suspected or diagnosed with coronavirus, or who is currently subject to health monitoring for possible exposure. Guests who have air travel booked through _Adventures by Disney_ will automatically have their flights rebooked on an alternate route. Guests who booked their own air travel arrangements should contact their airlines directly to make the appropriate changes.
> 
> Seems like some obvious stuff...



ABD needs to cancel that trip.
This disease is incredibly contagious.
Just being in an airport is a foolhardy place to be.

as i already posted, this is an interesting website if you have nothing better to do with your time

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
and for your reading pleasure:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/27/opinion/coronavirus-pandemics.html



neurosx1983 said:


> Wonder if ABD guides will provide masks... What a fun way to spend a vacation!
> 
> For all of you that are curious, though, remember those regular masks do absolutely nothing. The mask you need is called an N-95 respirator, and most hospitals now have those on lockdown. Because people have been trying to take them and sell them online... sad



I'm not sure i would say that surgical masks do absolutely nothing.
They may be less than impenetrable, but they're certainly better than nothing.
However, if it were me, i would combine a surgical mask with cotton gloves.
I spent an entire year in surgical masks and cotton gloves. I managed to not contract anything, but perhaps i wouldn't have regardless.
.


----------



## carpenta

N 95 masks only work if they are "fit tested" meaning they must fit tight to your face with no gapping. Otherwise it is only effective in not spreading the virus once you test positive. They most effective advice is not to touch your face, stay six feet away from other people when possible and wash, wash, wash your hands for minimum 20 seconds every time. Being in Atlanta airport Saturday we did not see many with masks and those we saw were wearing surgical masks (useless against the virus) and wearing those improperly with the mouth covered and nose exposed.


----------



## disneyholic family

carpenta said:


> N 95 masks only work if they are "fit tested" meaning they must fit tight to your face with no gapping. Otherwise it is only effective in not spreading the virus once you test positive. They most effective advice is not to touch your face, stay six feet away from other people when possible and wash, wash, wash your hands for minimum 20 seconds every time. Being in Atlanta airport Saturday we did not see many with masks and those we saw were wearing surgical masks (useless against the virus) and wearing those improperly with the mouth covered and nose exposed.


who wears a surgical mask with their nose exposed????
.


----------



## disneyholic family

neurosx1983 said:


> Wonder if ABD guides will provide masks... What a fun way to spend a vacation!
> 
> For all of you that are curious, though, remember those regular masks do absolutely nothing. The mask you need is called an N-95 respirator, and most hospitals now have those on lockdown. Because people have been trying to take them and sell them online... sad




have you cancelled?
where i live has just put france and germany on the mandatory quarantine order..
all returning travelers have to go into mandatory 14 day quarantine from a long list of countries, now including france and germany..

edit:  and the health ministry just put out another directive....anyone over 60 or with a preexisting condition should avoid contact with ANYONE returning from ANY country.   

second edit:  i just read through all the new directives of our health ministry.  they have added to the list of countries where they will not let anyone in arriving from those countries.  the new additions are:  france, germany, switzerland, spain, and austria (italy, china, korea, hong kong, japan, macau, thailand, etc. were already on the list).
Anyone working in healthcare is forbidden from leaving the country. 
Anyone coming back from anywhere (doesn't matter what country) is not allowed to be anywhere where there are more than 100 people present. 
And of course, those returning from the long list of forbidden countries must go into 14 day quarantine. 
the list of directives goes on and on.  But you get the idea. 
Still going on the ABD trip to UK/France?

.


----------



## Calfan

carpenta said:


> N 95 masks only work if they are "fit tested" meaning they must fit tight to your face with no gapping. Otherwise it is only effective in not spreading the virus once you test positive. They most effective advice is not to touch your face, stay six feet away from other people when possible and wash, wash, wash your hands for minimum 20 seconds every time. Being in Atlanta airport Saturday we did not see many with masks and those we saw were wearing surgical masks (useless against the virus) and wearing those improperly with the mouth covered and nose exposed.



Yes, we sent the detailed instructions on how to properly fit the masks to my Dad and sister to make sure they fit them appropriately.  We will do the same if we choose to wear them on our upcoming flights.


----------



## Jess_S

KashasMom said:


> We are also going to the Galapagos in July (another company) and no way I'm canceling unless something drastic happens between now and May when final payment is due. I'm not sure that I'd feel any more comfortable traveling in the U.S. (and I have no desire to go anywhere in the U.S.).


This is where I am now too. It seems likely that the relatively low number of cases in the US at this point is because we haven't been looking. I am suspiciously eyeing all of the coughing people on the subway as I type this. I am hoping that transmission will slow in the summer and buy researchers time to develop the vaccine and learn more about the virus. Selfishly, I also hope I will feel safe travelling this summer if transmission does slow.

For those cancelling trips, my own experience dealing with airlines and hotels was that they eventually issued refunds if I continued to politely tell them that their standard policy wasn't acceptable given the situation. It's a pain to spend hours on the phone -- especially when it is to cancel what we supposed to be a relaxing vacation. But, in the end, most businesses were willing to put preserving a customer relationship over the short-term profit from a cancellation fee.


----------



## neurosx1983

Jess_S said:


> This is where I am now too. It seems likely that the relatively low number of cases in the US at this point is because we haven't been looking. I am suspiciously eyeing all of the coughing people on the subway as I type this. I am hoping that transmission will slow in the summer and buy researchers time to develop the vaccine and learn more about the virus. Selfishly, I also hope I will feel safe travelling this summer if transmission does slow.
> 
> For those cancelling trips, my own experience dealing with airlines and hotels was that they eventually issued refunds if I continued to politely tell them that their standard policy wasn't acceptable given the situation. It's a pain to spend hours on the phone -- especially when it is to cancel what we supposed to be a relaxing vacation. But, in the end, most businesses were willing to put preserving a customer relationship over the short-term profit from a cancellation fee.



Well I’ve reached the point where I kind of don’t want to go to France anymore. I’m OK with the UK, but not France. But honestly I’m at the point where the only reason I think I’m going is so I don’t lose a big chunk of change. I know it’s best to keep things in perspective and that my health and my familys health is more important. I wonder if being persistent about cancellation with ABD would work? My guess is no.


----------



## lovetotravel

neurosx1983 said:


> Well I’ve reached the point where I kind of don’t want to go to France anymore. I’m OK with the UK, but not France. But honestly I’m at the point where the only reason I think I’m going is so I don’t lose a big chunk of change. I know it’s best to keep things in perspective and that my health and my familys health is more important. I wonder if being persistent about cancellation with ABD would work? My guess is no.


Louvre is open again though.

Something to find comfort in traveling with ABD: Group travel is almost all private with Disney since they use mostly private transportation and you eat usually in private rooms with private activities. Except for excursions where crowds are a factor. Versailles is the most crowded as you walk through like sardines through most of the rooms and of course the Louvre. Hopefully ABD can figure out how to make more private excursions so that you’re mainly traveling in your group. And since everyone is canceling trips, maybe you’ll face less crowds!


----------



## Networth

disneyholic family said:


> have you cancelled?
> where i live has just put france and germany on the mandatory quarantine order..
> all returning travelers have to go into mandatory 14 day quarantine from a long list of countries, now including france and germany..
> 
> edit:  and the health ministry just put out another directive....anyone over 60 (moi) or with a preexisting condition (also moi) should avoid contact with ANYONE returning from ANY country.
> 
> second edit:  i just read through all the new directives of our health ministry.  they have added to the list of countries where they will not let anyone in arriving from those countries.  the new additions are:  france, germany, switzerland, spain, and austria (italy, china, korea, hong kong, japan, macau, thailand, etc. were already on the list).
> Anyone working in healthcare is forbidden from leaving the country.
> Anyone coming back from anywhere (doesn't matter what country) is not allowed to be anywhere where there are more than 100 people present.
> And of course, those returning from the long list of forbidden countries must go into 14 day quarantine.
> the list of directives goes on and on.  But you get the idea.
> Still going on the ABD trip to UK/France?
> 
> .



Please don’t take this the wrong way, as I don’t mean it to sound crass. You seem to be a bit of an alarmist. Level three has not been activated for France, Germany, United Kingdom etc. If that comes to pass we have seen that ABD cancels or modifies the trips. They don’t want to put guests at risk.


----------



## disneyholic family

Networth said:


> Please don’t take this the wrong way, as I don’t mean it to sound crass. You seem to be a bit of an alarmist. Level three has not been activated for France, Germany, United Kingdom etc. If that comes to pass we have seen that ABD cancels or modifies the trips. They don’t want to put guests at risks.



i'm not taking it the wrong way. (editing to correct when i realized i'm writing to a different person than i thought i was)

Personally, i wouldn't want to have to go into quarantine for 14 days, which really you should do when returning from overseas at this time.

i live in a country that is still attempting to contain the spread.
Mainly in order to gain time.
The longer you can contain the spread, the more time you have to set up quarantine and critical care facilities.

The US has clearly blown past containment (not sure they ever really tried to contain), so i suppose it doesn't matter what ABD or anyone else does.

.


----------



## sayhello

disneyholic family said:


> have you cancelled?
> where i live has just put france and germany on the mandatory quarantine order..
> all returning travelers have to go into mandatory 14 day quarantine from a long list of countries, now including france and germany..
> 
> edit:  and the health ministry just put out another directive....anyone over 60 (moi) or with a preexisting condition (also moi) should avoid contact with ANYONE returning from ANY country.
> 
> second edit:  i just read through all the new directives of our health ministry.  they have added to the list of countries where they will not let anyone in arriving from those countries.  the new additions are:  france, germany, switzerland, spain, and austria (italy, china, korea, hong kong, japan, macau, thailand, etc. were already on the list).
> Anyone working in healthcare is forbidden from leaving the country.
> Anyone coming back from anywhere (doesn't matter what country) is not allowed to be anywhere where there are more than 100 people present.
> And of course, those returning from the long list of forbidden countries must go into 14 day quarantine.
> the list of directives goes on and on.  But you get the idea.
> Still going on the ABD trip to UK/France?
> 
> .


I'd really love to know what country your "Health Ministry" is from.  Because I haven't heard of any country so far raising France, Germany, etc to that high a level.   I actually agree with @Networth.


neurosx1983 said:


> Well I’ve reached the point where I kind of don’t want to go to France anymore. I’m OK with the UK, but not France. But honestly I’m at the point where the only reason I think I’m going is so I don’t lose a big chunk of change. I know it’s best to keep things in perspective and that my health and my familys health is more important. I wonder if being persistent about cancellation with ABD would work? My guess is no.


That seems a bit random.  Because the UK has 53 cases, and France has 212?  What is the magic cutoff number?

Sorry, everyone has to choose what they personally are & aren't comfortable with.  Just seems a bit random.

Sayhello


----------



## lovetotravel

"Everything we do before a pandemic will seem alarmist. Everything we do after a pandemic will seem inadequate." 2007, Secretary Mike Leavitt, US Department of Health and Human Services


----------



## Jess_S

neurosx1983 said:


> Well I’ve reached the point where I kind of don’t want to go to France anymore. I’m OK with the UK, but not France. But honestly I’m at the point where the only reason I think I’m going is so I don’t lose a big chunk of change. I know it’s best to keep things in perspective and that my health and my familys health is more important. I wonder if being persistent about cancellation with ABD would work? My guess is no.


If you are not going to feel comfortable traveling, then it certainly cannot hurt to ask. Disney has the same incentive to preserve customer relationships as any other travel provider.


----------



## neurosx1983

Well, at this point maybe nothing matters because there are several cases within about 30 minute drive of where I am right now!


----------



## disneyholic family

neurosx1983 said:


> Well I’ve reached the point where I kind of don’t want to go to France anymore. I’m OK with the UK, but not France. But honestly I’m at the point where the only reason I think I’m going is so I don’t lose a big chunk of change. I know it’s best to keep things in perspective and that my health and my familys health is more important. I wonder if being persistent about cancellation with ABD would work? My guess is no.



have you tried calling ABD?
and when you're on the phone with them, asked them to escalate to someone who actually might know something?
today is only the 4th and you're going on the 12th, so there's still time.
I don't know why you would necessarily lose a chunk of change.
Do you have travel insurance?  
Is coronavirus considered force majeure so it wouldn't be covered?  possibly.
for sure, the airline will let you take a credit for use within the year.


----------



## disneyholic family

neurosx1983 said:


> Well, at this point maybe nothing matters because there are several cases within about 30 minute drive of where I am right now!



what state?

.


----------



## neurosx1983

I’m going to try that. Starting to like the idea of the back up plan to go to Hawaii more and more…

@sayhello yes there kind of is a cut off. France has the highest number of cases outside of Italy in Europe. A lot of other European health agencies have put on travel restrictions to France and Germany. It’s on a completely different level and scale than UK.


----------



## neurosx1983

disneyholic family said:


> what state?
> 
> .


I live in nyc metro area


----------



## disneyholic family

neurosx1983 said:


> I live in nyc metro area


oh yeah, there are several schools closed down already there.
i just heard about it from friends who live there.
.


----------



## Donalyn

And the alarming thing in NYC (and other places) is that they have no idea how the attorney got it.  Similar, they have no idea how the nursing home in Washington state got it.  

I like the quote by Leavitt - it is very true and it is exactly here we are today.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

disneyholic family said:


> have you tried calling ABD?
> and when you're on the phone with them, asked them to escalate to someone who actually might know something?
> today is only the 4th and you're going on the 12th, so there's still time.
> I don't know why you would necessarily lose a chunk of change.
> Do you have travel insurance?
> Is coronavirus considered force majeure so it wouldn't be covered?  possibly.
> for sure, the airline will let you take a credit for use within the year.


The CSRs at ABD are working from a script and the supervisors are pretty useless not helpful. Pressing the front-line CSRs isn't going to get anyone booked on the trip a response -- that has to come from senior management.

When is your trip? Are you on the March 12th departure? Frankly I'm shocked that ABD hasn't made a decision about this trip yet. 

I read in our local paper that most, if not all, local school boards have cancelled all spring break trips to Europe. They are not taking any chances. Sadly parents that didn't purchase insurance aren't being guaranteed they will get their money refunded. Keep in mind March break up north isn't until the end of the month. ABD needs to make a decision for a trip in a week. I am losing faith in the ABD product and I would be very upset if I was booked on that trip and hadn't heard anything as of yet. 

I have a trip that I booked myself and we are supposed to leave for the Maldives via Delhi and Male on April 2nd. I am closely monitoring the situation. This is supposed to be a once-in-a-lifetime trip for dd's senior year, so I really, really don't want to cancel it, but if India goes level 3 I'm cancelling.


----------



## Magnum_PI

neurosx1983 said:


> Well, at this point maybe nothing matters because there are several cases within about 30 minute drive of where I am right now!



Same, I live in midtown Manhattan and work in a building a couple of blocks away from where the Westchester fellow works (really hope he pulls through, I understand his condition is currently serious).  I've always had the attitude that I'm more likely to get the virus here than anywhere else given my location within the US.  I'm on immunosuppressive meds as well, joy.  So, am I practicing "social distancing" and working from home right now?  Yes.  Am I canceling my September ABD?  Nah.  Not unless Disney does it for me.

Good luck to you, @neurosx1983 !  Hoping we both stay healthy (and that, you know, most other people do too)!


----------



## gotomu212

sayhello said:


> I'd really love to know what country your "Health Ministry" is from.  Because I haven't heard of any country so far raising France, Germany, etc to that high a level.   I actually agree with @Networth.
> That seems a bit random.  Because the UK has 53 cases, and France has 212?  What is the magic cutoff number?
> 
> Sorry, everyone has to choose what they personally are & aren't comfortable with.  Just seems a bit random.
> 
> Sayhello



I’m not the OP and I don’t know if it’s the same country, but my brother is in Israel and they have raised the level and require quarantines returning from France, Germany, Spain, Austria, and Switzerland as of today (his wife is in Switzerland and we were scheduled to go in a few weeks so that has thrown a wrench into things).


----------



## disneyholic family

gotomu212 said:


> I’m not the OP and I don’t know if it’s the same country, but my brother is in Israel and they have raised the level and require quarantines returning from France, Germany, Spain, Austria, and Switzerland as of today (his wife is in Switzerland and we were scheduled to go in a few weeks so that has thrown a wrench into things).




i've said numerous times i'm in israel.

It's interesting.  I just watched the news conference with Vice President Pence and the task force members.
They're definitely taking the 'nothing to see here' approach, which is probably the best one for the US.
They kept saying that no one under the age of 30 has died in korea and that the people at risk are the "elderly". However, they never define what they mean by "elderly".
The health ministry here is defining "elderly" as 60 and up, which to me isn't all that elderly, especially given that i'm in that group. Never thought of myself as "elderly".

It stands to reason that a small country with serious security risks must be far more vigilant in situations of this kind, explaining the differences in approach.


----------



## gotomu212

disneyholic family said:


> i've said numerous times i'm in israel.
> 
> It's interesting.  I just watched the news conference with Vice President Pence and the task force members.
> They're definitely taking the 'nothing to see here' approach, which is probably the best one for the US.
> They kept saying that no one under the age of 30 has died in korea and that the people at risk are the "elderly". However, they never define what they mean by "elderly".
> The health ministry here is defining "elderly" as 60 and up, which to me isn't all that elderly, especially given that i'm in that group. Never thought of myself as "elderly".
> 
> It stands to reason that a small country with serious security risks must be far more vigilant in situations of this kind, explaining the differences in approach.



I don’t like to generalize but having family living in Israel since the 90s it always sort of felt like the US approach was fear and wanting to get to normal as fast as possible and Israel was like “here we go again, buckle up, you all know the drill”. 

I have the same reaction to elderly- while fearing for my kids is always the worst and knowing they are relatively safe does make me feel better, don’t all of us have parents,grandparents, friends, and coworkers in the 60+ age? In my division at work everyone but me is over 50 and several are 60s and 70s. Things would get serious quickly if even a tenth of them were out sick. Telling me not to worry when the rates of death are so high for those demographics doesn’t really make me feel better.


----------



## TarotFox

This just highlights a million problems with the US -- late retirement age, lack of access to healthcare, disaster response, lack of sick days... it's going to be bad for many here if containment fails.


----------



## jbehr12

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> Thanks! I'm with you



I’ve gotten the flu before and I’m still alive. The flu is statistically more dangerous. LET’S TRAVEL!


----------



## sayhello

disneyholic family said:


> have you tried calling ABD?
> and when you're on the phone with them, asked them to escalate to someone who actually might know something?
> today is only the 4th and you're going on the 12th, so there's still time.
> I don't know why you would necessarily lose a chunk of change.
> Do you have travel insurance?
> Is coronavirus considered force majeure so it wouldn't be covered?  possibly.
> for sure, the airline will let you take a credit for use within the year.


No, epidemics and pandemics are not considered a covered reason in the vast majority of Travel Insurance policies.  My current policy specifically lists epidemics as a non-covered reason.  


gotomu212 said:


> I’m not the OP and I don’t know if it’s the same country, but my brother is in Israel and they have raised the level and require quarantines returning from France, Germany, Spain, Austria, and Switzerland as of today (his wife is in Switzerland and we were scheduled to go in a few weeks so that has thrown a wrench into things).


Thanks.  Israel always seems to know more than we do.


disneyholic family said:


> i've said numerous times i'm in israel.
> 
> It's interesting.  I just watched the news conference with Vice President Pence and the task force members.
> They're definitely taking the 'nothing to see here' approach, which is probably the best one for the US.
> They kept saying that no one under the age of 30 has died in korea and that the people at risk are the "elderly". However, they never define what they mean by "elderly".
> The health ministry here is defining "elderly" as 60 and up, which to me isn't all that elderly, especially given that i'm in that group. Never thought of myself as "elderly".
> 
> It stands to reason that a small country with serious security risks must be far more vigilant in situations of this kind, explaining the differences in approach.


Sorry, I missed that you were from Israel.  I know Israel is very serious about security, and your scientists seem to know more than ours.


gotomu212 said:


> I don’t like to generalize but having family living in Israel since the 90s it always sort of felt like the US approach was fear and wanting to get to normal as fast as possible and Israel was like “here we go again, buckle up, you all know the drill”.
> 
> I have the same reaction to elderly- while fearing for my kids is always the worst and knowing they are relatively safe does make me feel better, don’t all of us have parents,grandparents, friends, and coworkers in the 60+ age? In my division at work everyone but me is over 50 and several are 60s and 70s. Things would get serious quickly if even a tenth of them were out sick. Telling me not to worry when the rates of death are so high for those demographics doesn’t really make me feel better.


I'd love to know what "elderly" is, too.  Pence is "elderly" himself if it's defined as 60+.  

I work in a building with 9,000 people.  Honestly, it's just as risky for me to go to work as it is to go on vacation.  But there are no cases in Ohio yet, and I keep hoping it stays that way.

Sayhello


----------



## Rapunzellover

I'm in California, and there's people in my county being monitored.  It could be here.  I also work at a school(teach), so very high risk job with lots of public interactions.  I'm trying not to worry too much, but I've got conferences coming up in Sacramento and LA.  I'm reluctant to fly right now, tbh.

But my advice for those looking for refunds in case of coronavirus cancellation... be persistent.  And firm.  But don't yell, cuss, or get angry (it's easy to want to when it comes to losing money). 

Always ask for a supervisor.  When they say no exceptions, give them a logical argument (like not getting the refund will cost them your future business) and don't take no for an answer.  There is always someone who can make an exception.   Tell them that, and insist on talking to the person who can make that exception.   If you get the run around, keep calling.   Don't just roll over and give up thousands of dollars.


----------



## neurosx1983

I called ABD this evening, got supervisor on the phone, and surprisingly did not get shut down on my request to get some sort of refund (apart from the cancel for any reason refund)...they told me they would check with their superiors and let me know. Of course, the chance of something happening is low, but I was appreciative that they're at least going to look into it.

As much as I've been looking forward to this trip and even though I made a lot of pre and post plans, Ive decided if they waive the cancellation policy, I'm out. Will go somewhere warm and relax on a beach.

Even if they don't waive, I may do the cancel for any reason, but that's a harder pill to swallow...mostly because you just get an ABD credit, not actual money back.  And you lose 25%.

Anyway, from my conversations almost on a daily basis with ABD, they really do seem to be confident in their decision to keep the trips going. I hope they're right.  Not a single person has dropped out from our group, yet!


----------



## disneyholic family

neurosx1983 said:


> I called ABD this evening, got supervisor on the phone, and surprisingly did not get shut down on my request to get some sort of refund (apart from the cancel for any reason refund)...they told me they would check with their superiors and let me know. Of course, the chance of something happening is low, but I was appreciative that they're at least going to look into it.
> 
> As much as I've been looking forward to this trip and even though I made a lot of pre and post plans, Ive decided if they waive the cancellation policy, I'm out. Will go somewhere warm and relax on a beach.
> 
> Even if they don't waive, I may do the cancel for any reason, but that's a harder pill to swallow...mostly because you just get an ABD credit, not actual money back.  And you lose 25%.
> 
> Anyway, from my conversations almost on a daily basis with ABD, they really do seem to be confident in their decision to keep the trips going. I hope they're right.  Not a single person has dropped out from our group, yet!



I'm very sorry you're faced with this decision. It must be terribly upsetting when all you were interested in was an enjoyable trip with the family. An expensive enjoyable trip.
I have to say that i'm surprised that ABD has been so inflexible.
Perhaps they don't believe that this approach will hurt future sales.
My familiarity with disney travel policies is from WDW and DCL, so to be honest, i hadn't even paid attention that the deposit is completely lost 14 days after booking.
I'm not sure i'll book with them again after this.
As for our October trip, given what i know now about ABD's approach, i may well cancel when i reach PIF.  I'll consider the $1000 deposit an expensive lesson learned.
.


----------



## lovetotravel

neurosx1983 said:


> I called ABD this evening, got supervisor on the phone, and surprisingly did not get shut down on my request to get some sort of refund (apart from the cancel for any reason refund)...they told me they would check with their superiors and let me know. Of course, the chance of something happening is low, but I was appreciative that they're at least going to look into it.
> 
> As much as I've been looking forward to this trip and even though I made a lot of pre and post plans, Ive decided if they waive the cancellation policy, I'm out. Will go somewhere warm and relax on a beach.
> 
> Even if they don't waive, I may do the cancel for any reason, but that's a harder pill to swallow...mostly because you just get an ABD credit, not actual money back.  And you lose 25%.
> 
> Anyway, from my conversations almost on a daily basis with ABD, they really do seem to be confident in their decision to keep the trips going. I hope they're right.  Not a single person has dropped out from our group, yet!


Instead of a refund, did you ask to move or park 100% of your money for a new trip so you at least don’t loose 25%?


----------



## neurosx1983

They might offer to just change the date.
In any case I must say that ABD exudes a shocking amount of confidence during this time. Good for them. And good for their customers too bc As I mentioned not a single person has dropped out of this trip


----------



## Candycane83

neurosx1983 said:


> They might offer to just change the date.
> In any case I must say that ABD exudes a shocking amount of confidence during this time. Good for them. And good for their customers too bc As I mentioned not a single person has dropped out of this trip


Very surprising no one has dropped! I see everyone on the cruise boards cancelling mostly anything to do with Europe at this time. Maybe people in your group are also waiting until the very last min to decide if they are doing or not too?


----------



## lovetotravel

Candycane83 said:


> Very surprising no one has dropped! I see everyone on the cruise boards cancelling mostly anything to do with Europe at this time. Maybe people in your group are also waiting until the very last min to decide if they are doing or not too?


I can’t see how they will wait last minute unless something like a level 3 occurs. Some people may already be enroute or at their pre-trip! That would suck to be at the pre-trip with nowhere to go after.


----------



## laceltris3

Magnum_PI said:


> Same, I live in midtown Manhattan and work in a building a couple of blocks away from where the Westchester fellow works (really hope he pulls through, I understand his condition is currently serious).  I've always had the attitude that I'm more likely to get the virus here than anywhere else given my location within the US.  I'm on immunosuppressive meds as well, joy.  So, am I practicing "social distancing" and working from home right now?  Yes.  Am I canceling my September ABD?  Nah.  Not unless Disney does it for me.
> 
> Good luck to you, @neurosx1983 !  Hoping we both stay healthy (and that, you know, most other people do too)!



This is more or less my attitude. The new case in Texas yesterday is like 20 minutes from me. Our low case numbers reflect lack of testing more than anything else and I am pretty sure the US has at least as many as France and Germany are reporting (if not many more, given what's going on with that cruise ship out of SF). Nobody is waiving change penalties out as far as July. I will monitor the situation this month, and likely PIF at the end of the month for our trip. I am honestly hoping that we can get through May without school closings here, but I can handle a summer self-quarantine or working from home.


----------



## laceltris3

Candycane83 said:


> Very surprising no one has dropped! I see everyone on the cruise boards cancelling mostly anything to do with Europe at this time. Maybe people in your group are also waiting until the very last min to decide if they are doing or not too?



I think cruises are a materially different situation, given what has happened. I would like to think that they know now the route in Japan is not the way to go, but I can understand the fear of being trapped or denied docking. 

Also, did anyone see that in New Hampshire the positive case who was supposed to be in self-quarantine broke it to go to an invitation-only event for Dartmouth Business School and now there is another case? I can understand people who risk losing thousands of dollars they have spent on a trip, but not people who know they have it selfishly exposing others.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

laceltris3 said:


> Also, did anyone see that in New Hampshire the positive case who was supposed to be in self-quarantine broke it to go to an invitation-only event for Dartmouth Business School and now there is another case? I can understand people who risk losing thousands of dollars they have spent on a trip, but not people who know they have it selfishly exposing others.


I just finished reading an article about this. I think that guy should be prosecuted and/or sued. The article said there was no law against ignoring advice, but I would argue in this case when you knowingly do something there are both civil and criminal laws that can fit. If my kids went to Dartmouth and were at that party, I would be LIVID. He better hope no one dies from his arrogant stupidity and recklessness.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

lovetotravel said:


> We just cancelled OYO trip to Netherlands for spring break. Staying home seemed to be the most enjoyable thing at this point. Some things I learned about canceling trips: Right now, Delta is waiving all change fees and penalties for international flights and are issuing a credit to be used 1 year from original ticketed date. If you have non-ABD insurance, you can transfer the insurance to another trip if they allow it, mine did not but some will. I don't know if ABD allows you to move your insurance to a new trip without a fee if they cancel your trip. We had minimal loss, except for a private tour guide who charged us time for working on our itinerary and tickets purchased, but refunded most of our deposit.



I wanted to thank you, again, for posting this.  I would not have known, otherwise, that Delta was making this exception and I was nervous about losing $800 in our cancellation.  I cancelled our Delta flights yesterday and got the no-penalty, full e-credit for future flights to be used by mid-December.  Should all go well, we will be able to use that credit toward our flights for the Rhine ABD this summer.  Our resort in Mexico also offered us a credit instead of taking our two-night deposit which was very kind of them.


----------



## KD1234

Sorry, jumping in a bit late here.  I'm one of those "at-risk" people as I'm immunosuppressed.  We're going to WDW in April for Spring Break and to our Southern CA/DL ABD in June.  My husband is a physician who has been in communication with SC's governor's office regarding protocols for this thing.  (We don't live in SC.)  We are still going on our trips, and personally, I only worried about the panic, not the virus itself.


----------



## sayhello

KD1234 said:


> Sorry, jumping in a bit late here.  I'm one of those "at-risk" people as I'm immunosuppressed.  We're going to WDW in April for Spring Break and to our Southern CA/DL ABD in June.  My husband is a physician who has been in communication with SC's governor's office regarding protocols for this thing.  (We don't live in SC.)  We are still going on our trips, and personally, I only worried about the panic, not the virus itself.


I totally get this.  I was sick over the weekend (started as a bad cold, ended up a mild case of bronchitis).  I was supposed to go to NYC over the weekend, and was glad I cancelled when I got the cold.  Not only did I end up getting sicker, but I REALLY was worried about getting quarantined in JFK for who knows how long.  (I'm sure the folks at the wedding I missed are glad I cancelled, too.) 

Sayhello


----------



## Candycane83

I just got an email from Tauck offering travel credit for all PIF trips through June 30, 2020 to use between 2020-2021. Airfare change fees are not covered.


----------



## 2Gma

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> I just finished reading an article about this. I think that guy should be prosecuted and/or sued. The article said there was no law against ignoring advice, but I would argue in this case when you knowingly do something there are both civil and criminal laws that can fit. If my kids went to Dartmouth and were at that party, I would be LIVID. He better hope no one dies from his arrogant stupidity and recklessness.


That's why self-imposed quarantines won't work here in the US.  People don't care.  While their are major issues with how China runs their country at least their containment measures seemed to help prevent further loss of life/overwhelming of healthcare systems outside of Wuhan.  People here won't care until its too late and they realize they can't get care for themselves or their loved ones because every hospital bed is full and their is no oxygen support. This thing is going to spread so fast after Spring break travel...


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

2Gma said:


> That's why self-imposed quarantines won't work here in the US.  People don't care.  While their are major issues with how China runs their country at least their containment measures seemed to help prevent further loss of life/overwhelming of healthcare systems outside of Wuhan.  People here won't care until its too late and they realize they can't get care for themselves or their loved ones because every hospital bed is full and their is no oxygen support. This thing is going to spread so fast after Spring break travel...


I hope you are wrong about the spreading after Spring Break, but I fear that could well be the case  To your China point, I read a really interesting article in the Atlantic today about the UK and political/economic decisions interplaying with the medical decisions. It is about the virus, but also relevant to socialized medicine. Tough decisions.  https://www.theatlantic.com/interna...politics-crisis-boris-johnson-britain/607456/


----------



## lovetotravel

DisneyWishes14 said:


> I wanted to thank you, again, for posting this.  I would not have known, otherwise, that Delta was making this exception and I was nervous about losing $800 in our cancellation.  I cancelled our Delta flights yesterday and got the no-penalty, full e-credit for future flights to be used by mid-December.  Should all go well, we will be able to use that credit toward our flights for the Rhine ABD this summer.  Our resort in Mexico also offered us a credit instead of taking our two-night deposit which was very kind of them.


So glad it worked out for you! I am trying to find somewhere to use my credit that must be used by Sep. I am wondering if I book this month if it would fall under their new policy they have for March ticket and if it applies to credit. I will have to investigate because it's almost like free insurance.

*DELTA:
No Change Fees For All Tickets Purchased Between March 1-31, 2020*

Affected Customers: All Tickets issued between March 1, 2020 - March 31, 2020
Impacted Travel Date(s): March 1, 2020 - February 25, 2021
Ticket Can Be Changed One-Time To An Alternate Itinerary. Must Be Re-issued On/Before: February 28, 2021
Rebooked Travel Must Begin No Later Than: February 28, 2021


----------



## DisneyWishes14

lovetotravel said:


> So glad it worked out for you! I am trying to find somewhere to use my credit that must be used by Sep. I am wondering if I book this month if it would fall under their new policy they have for March ticket and if it applies to credit. I will have to investigate because it's almost like free insurance.
> 
> *DELTA:
> No Change Fees For All Tickets Purchased Between March 1-31, 2020*
> 
> Affected Customers: All Tickets issued between March 1, 2020 - March 31, 2020
> Impacted Travel Date(s): March 1, 2020 - February 25, 2021
> Ticket Can Be Changed One-Time To An Alternate Itinerary. Must Be Re-issued On/Before: February 28, 2021
> Rebooked Travel Must Begin No Later Than: February 28, 2021



Oh!!  Interesting idea!!  Please let us know what you find out!  If that is the case, I might be more apt to book our summer flights now!


----------



## laceltris3

Specifically for Tauck:

*Bookings paid in full:*Any guests who wish to cancel their booking will have ALL cancel fees (including Guest or Cruise Protection Product premiums) issued back to them in the form of a travel credit to be used on any 2020-2021 Tauck journey. Airline change fees will not be covered for guests who voluntarily cancel.

*Bookings not paid in full:* Final payment for guests booked on these tours is now due 30 days prior to departure. Any guest who cancels after making final payment will have ALL cancel fees (including Guest or Cruise Protection Product premiums) issued back to them in the form of a travel credit to be used on any 2020-2021 Tauck journey. Airline change fees will not be covered for guests who voluntarily cancel.

*If Tauck cancels your journey:* To date, all journeys that travel primarily to U.S. State Department Level 4 (“Do Not Travel”) destinations (China departures through June; Lombardy and Veneto, Italy, departures through April) have been canceled by Tauck. Guests booked on a trip where cancellation is initiated by Tauck will have all tour/cruise costs returned in the original form of payment. (Any Guest Protection Product/Cruise Protection Product premiums will be kept on account by Tauck for future use.) For guests with Tauck booked air, Tauck will cover all airline change fees. For guests with non-Tauck air, Tauck will cover airline change fees up to $250 per person.


That final payment due 30 days out is a really welcome change.


----------



## lovetotravel

laceltris3 said:


> *Bookings paid in full:*Any guests who wish to cancel their booking will have ALL cancel fees (including Guest or Cruise Protection Product premiums) issued back to them in the form of a travel credit to be used on any 2020-2021 Tauck journey. Airline change fees will not be covered for guests who voluntarily cancel.
> 
> That final payment due 30 days out is a really welcome change.


WOW I love this idea! I hope ABD follows because I have 2 upcoming summer ABD trips that could become risky as time goes on and the virus continues its current path.


----------



## pjacobi

2Gma said:


> That's why self-imposed quarantines won't work here in the US.  People don't care.  While their are major issues with how China runs their country at least their containment measures seemed to help prevent further loss of life/overwhelming of healthcare systems outside of Wuhan.  People here won't care until its too late and they realize they can't get care for themselves or their loved ones because every hospital bed is full and their is no oxygen support. This thing is going to spread so fast after Spring break travel...



The two New Hampshire quarantines are now under telephone surveillance with threat of criminal prosecution.

-Paul


----------



## sayhello

laceltris3 said:


> Specifically for Tauck:
> 
> *Bookings paid in full:*Any guests who wish to cancel their booking will have ALL cancel fees (including Guest or Cruise Protection Product premiums) issued back to them in the form of a travel credit to be used on any 2020-2021 Tauck journey. Airline change fees will not be covered for guests who voluntarily cancel.
> 
> *Bookings not paid in full:* Final payment for guests booked on these tours is now due 30 days prior to departure. Any guest who cancels after making final payment will have ALL cancel fees (including Guest or Cruise Protection Product premiums) issued back to them in the form of a travel credit to be used on any 2020-2021 Tauck journey. Airline change fees will not be covered for guests who voluntarily cancel.
> 
> *If Tauck cancels your journey:* To date, all journeys that travel primarily to U.S. State Department Level 4 (“Do Not Travel”) destinations (China departures through June; Lombardy and Veneto, Italy, departures through April) have been canceled by Tauck. Guests booked on a trip where cancellation is initiated by Tauck will have all tour/cruise costs returned in the original form of payment. (Any Guest Protection Product/Cruise Protection Product premiums will be kept on account by Tauck for future use.) For guests with Tauck booked air, Tauck will cover all airline change fees. For guests with non-Tauck air, Tauck will cover airline change fees up to $250 per person.
> 
> 
> That final payment due 30 days out is a really welcome change.


Nice policy!  Wouldn't it be something if ABD published something like this!

Sayhello


----------



## TXTransplant

Final payment for our Nat Geo trip to Alaska (June 3-10) was this week.  I have not received any communication from them re any updates or changes to their cancellation policies.

I had already purchased flights and went ahead and PIF.  We are scheduled to stop in Seattle for a couple of days before going on to Alaska, and I'm not planning to change that, either.

If things don't get better in SEA by the end of May, we will just stay in the hotel room for two days.  I think that's cheaper/easier than trying to rearrange our flight to Anchorage (I have an Airbnb booked there for the three nights preceding the Nat Geo trip). 

If Nat Geo cancels, that's a different story.  But, I dread dealing with the airlines, as we have flights booked on United, Delta, and Alaskan Airlines for this trip.


----------



## disneyholic family

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> I hope you are wrong about the spreading after Spring Break, but I fear that could well be the case  To your China point, I read a really interesting article in the Atlantic today about the UK and political/economic decisions interplaying with the medical decisions. It is about the virus, but also relevant to socialized medicine. Tough decisions.  https://www.theatlantic.com/interna...politics-crisis-boris-johnson-britain/607456/



very interesting article. Thanks for posting!!

.


----------



## ngl

laceltris3 said:


> Specifically for Tauck:
> 
> *Bookings paid in full:*Any guests who wish to cancel their booking will have ALL cancel fees (including Guest or Cruise Protection Product premiums) issued back to them in the form of a travel credit to be used on any 2020-2021 Tauck journey. Airline change fees will not be covered for guests who voluntarily cancel.
> 
> *Bookings not paid in full:* Final payment for guests booked on these tours is now due 30 days prior to departure. Any guest who cancels after making final payment will have ALL cancel fees (including Guest or Cruise Protection Product premiums) issued back to them in the form of a travel credit to be used on any 2020-2021 Tauck journey. Airline change fees will not be covered for guests who voluntarily cancel.
> 
> *If Tauck cancels your journey:* To date, all journeys that travel primarily to U.S. State Department Level 4 (“Do Not Travel”) destinations (China departures through June; Lombardy and Veneto, Italy, departures through April) have been canceled by Tauck. Guests booked on a trip where cancellation is initiated by Tauck will have all tour/cruise costs returned in the original form of payment. (Any Guest Protection Product/Cruise Protection Product premiums will be kept on account by Tauck for future use.) For guests with Tauck booked air, Tauck will cover all airline change fees. For guests with non-Tauck air, Tauck will cover airline change fees up to $250 per person.
> 
> 
> That final payment due 30 days out is a really welcome change.


Thanks so much for the information! Do you know if this is only Tauck trips through June 30? Ours Tauck Bridges starts July 5 (in Rome). I have not received an email yet so curious. Thanks so much!


----------



## laceltris3

ngl said:


> Thanks so much for the information! Do you know if this is only Tauck trips through June 30? Ours Tauck Bridges starts July 5 (in Rome). I have not received an email yet so curious. Thanks so much!




Email says: _To this end, we are implementing the following policy changes for any guests confirmed to travel on any Tauck journey (tour or cruise) through June 30, 2020._ 

Ours Is June 27 through July 4th. But I think that if the situation warrants, they would extend it.


----------



## Candycane83

ngl said:


> Thanks so much for the information! Do you know if this is only Tauck trips through June 30? Ours Tauck Bridges starts July 5 (in Rome). I have not received an email yet so curious. Thanks so much!


I think they will watch the situation and make extensions if needed. I can see why they have a lot of very loyal customers...


Ours is next Sunday to Costa Rica. I’m not sure how close I can actually take advantage of this. I still plan to go at this point but will watch the news! It’s nice to have peace of mind on such a large investment though.


----------



## ngl

laceltris3 said:


> Email says: _To this end, we are implementing the following policy changes for any guests confirmed to travel on any Tauck journey (tour or cruise) through June 30, 2020._
> 
> Ours Is June 27 through July 4th. But I think that if the situation warrants, they would extend it.


Thanks so much for the update. Our PIF is end of April. Will see where things stand then but would be great to have another month. Thanks again!


----------



## lovetotravel

Just got this from the Laos Embassy. I wonder how this affects the ABD SE Asia trips? Does this mean US travelers have to quarantine?
——-
Health Alert – U.S. Embassy Vientiane, Laos (March 6, 2020)

Location:  Laos

Event:  There is an ongoing outbreak of Coronavirus (COVID-19) first identified in Wuhan, China.  The global public health threat posed by COVID-19 is high, with more than 80,000 reported cases worldwide.

The government of Laos has implemented enhanced screening and quarantine measures to reduce the spread of COVID-19.  At present, these restrictions apply to travelers entering Laos from countries with confirmed cases of COVID-19, but travelers should be prepared for travel restrictions to change with little or no advance notice.  According to the enhanced measures:

*Travelers coming from a country with confirmed cases of COVID-19 who do not have fever or other symptoms related to COVID-19 will be asked to self-quarantine and monitor for COVID-19 symptoms for 14 days.*
Travelers coming from a country with confirmed cases of COVID-19 who have fever and/or other symptoms of COVID-19 will be sent to a hospital for monitoring and COVID-19 testing.


----------



## sayhello

lovetotravel said:


> Just got this from the Laos Embassy. I wonder how this affects the ABD SE Asia trips? Does this mean US travelers have to quarantine?
> ——-
> Health Alert – U.S. Embassy Vientiane, Laos (March 6, 2020)
> 
> Location:  Laos
> 
> Event:  There is an ongoing outbreak of Coronavirus (COVID-19) first identified in Wuhan, China.  The global public health threat posed by COVID-19 is high, with more than 80,000 reported cases worldwide.
> 
> The government of Laos has implemented enhanced screening and quarantine measures to reduce the spread of COVID-19.  At present, these restrictions apply to travelers entering Laos from countries with confirmed cases of COVID-19, but travelers should be prepared for travel restrictions to change with little or no advance notice.  According to the enhanced measures:
> 
> *Travelers coming from a country with confirmed cases of COVID-19 who do not have fever or other symptoms related to COVID-19 will be asked to self-quarantine and monitor for COVID-19 symptoms for 14 days.*
> Travelers coming from a country with confirmed cases of COVID-19 who have fever and/or other symptoms of COVID-19 will be sent to a hospital for monitoring and COVID-19 testing.


I don't see how it could not affect the ABD SE Asia trips!

Sayhello


----------



## SirDuff

gotomu212 said:


> I’m not the OP and I don’t know if it’s the same country, but my brother is in Israel and they have raised the level and require quarantines returning from France, Germany, Spain, Austria, and Switzerland as of today (his wife is in Switzerland and we were scheduled to go in a few weeks so that has thrown a wrench into things).



I'm at the airport in Switzerland and the El Al flight to Tel Aviv is departing shortly (well, a couple of hours) and check-in appears to be progressing as normal (no one in masks that I can see).  Clearly, everyone on the flight has been to Switzerland - from this flight alone that is going to be at least 100 to quarantine.  Seems weird that they've not cancelled all direct flights from the countries needing quarantines.  

I did notice that there's a flight to Milan on the board that is cancelled.


----------



## Spork24

Hey guys, I’m coming to you guys from my CDC provided 14 days of “self monitoring”.  

I am not trying to fear monger as there is plenty of that going on. just wanted to share a piece of my story and my perspective.

I just returned from a trip to South Korea and Cambodia.

When we left, South Korea had relatively few cases. When we landed in South Korea the cases had doubled overnight and continued to rise rapidly. We decided to cut our stay in South Korea short and head to Cambodia a day early.

We were only in the Seoul area and when we were there the Outbreak was pretty much entirely in the south far from where we were.

Even though our risk of exposure is extremely low, the stigma that comes with traveling to a country with an outbreak is real.
we are following the cdc guidelines and going to stay home from 14 days from leaving Korea.

Many of our travel companions have been asked to start their 14 days working from home (or some just off work) from the day they landed in the states despite Cambodia only having 1 case that has already recovered.

Some people have asked me if I really think 14 days is enough.  And I’m like  That’s what the CDC says.

It is really all anyone wants to talk to me about.

And then the whole “I look forward to seeing you again in three to four weeks jokes” which everybody seems to think is really clever.


Long story short: there is no way I would be making any long term travel plans in the next month or two until we see where this thing goes. (Unless they are fully refundable of course)


----------



## DisneyWishes14

Just as an FYI - Jetblue has extended their no-fee change/cancellation policy into early September for anyone thinking of booking travel right now.  I may take advantage of this for my SoCal/DL summer ABD:

"We also want to ensure you can book new travel with confidence. As such, we're extending our temporary policy of no change or cancellation fees. This applies to bookings made 3/6-3/31 for travel through 9/8/20 across all fares (Blue, Blue Basic, Blue Plus, Blue Extra and Mint) and all JetBlue destinations. If you need to cancel your travel plans, we'll credit the full amount as a JetBlue travel credit that's valid for one year. Fare differences may apply for changes. Please visit our blog for more info."


----------



## Grifdog22

I think this virus is going to demonstrate and differentiate quality from crass in companies and people worldwide and we as consumers should vote with our wallet. This is in all types of travel and activities. 

ABD has cancelled a few trips so far and appears to have bent over backwards to assist on those trips that are cancelled.  Some airlines are doing the same.  Today Air France announced either a 1 year voucher or "Air France authorizes re-booking at no extra cost throughout its network for flights booked on and before 31 March 2020."  Delta appears to be doing some remarkable accommodations. 

Then you have the giant travel insurance companies like Berkshire Hathaway.  We have, according to them, "the most comprehensive travel policy you can purchase." We excluded the cancel for any reason option as we would only cancel for a damn good reason.  For "the most comprehensive policy you can buy" they report these types of situations will not be covered, even if your tour operator cancels the trip. My two ABD trips are not cancelled, and I hope they won't be.  However, the "piece of mind" offered by these large companies is only taking a piece of my rear-end.  My ratings are now a big zero and I encourage everyone to share the good and bad of company performance now and in the future.  

I've been very surprised as I made polite inquires about the "what if" and most vendors and companies (except so far the Marriott in France) have said that if the virus expands and we are not able to make the trips due to cancellations by tour operators, etc. they will refund the money.  (If the trip does cancel and Marriott retains this position, I'll keep you posted, but for now, I've already moved a conference next spring on which I am on the planning board to the Omni and made clear to the local manager as to why.)

I see a difference between the programs that are letting you cancel without penalty out of worry vs those who are letting you get a refund if the cancellation is out of your control.  Businesses will already struggle as the virus gets larger and the impact continues to ripple worldwide. Many businesses are willing to work with consumers who have no choice in no longer taking the trips - government quarantine, trip operator cancel, etc., It is refreshing but not required that they cut the customer a break, and these companies are investing in long term goodwill.  I am one of those customers that never forgets a good deed and never lets a bad deed go unpunished. 

However, those travelers that have changed their mind out of worry in my view should not get taken care of in the same way.  They had the choice, as did we, to purchase cancel for any reason coverage.  They elected not to do that, and now are mad that they can't cancel for any reason and get the benefit they refused to pay for.  The option was always available to make as a consumer.  Do not slam the business for your refusal to pay for an option that was always available. 

In my opinion, which appears to drastically differ from many of the posters here, we should not expect a business to eat a large loss because you changed your mind.  On the other hand, posters like Spork above, my heart goes out to because they have done everything right and are still in quarantine. 

We can't hide from this.  Stopping at the gas station you may be two feet away from an infected person also pumping on the other side of the pump.  There is going to be exposure as long and wherever we have contacts with others. Here in the US we had plenty of advance notice this was coming.  Unless there is some hidden element, it appears we did little to prepare. That's on us and our leadership, which we elected.  China took some extraordinary measures when they realized what was happening.  Our citizens will still go to a Dartmouth private party while apparently infected, because we believe ourselves too good, too independent, and apparently above such things.  Thank you  Spork for doing the right thing.  I fear you are in the minority.

I will continue to look forward to my trips and if they go, enjoy them immensely.  If they do not go, I will look to reschedule.  Life happens.


----------



## laceltris3

Candycane83 said:


> I think they will watch the situation and make extensions if needed. I can see why they have a lot of very loyal customers...
> 
> 
> Ours is next Sunday to Costa Rica. I’m not sure how close I can actually take advantage of this. I still plan to go at this point but will watch the news! It’s nice to have peace of mind on such a large investment though.



I especially appreciate their policy updates as they have to be getting hit hard, as this kind of travel is all they do. I think it is a great contrast to the companies that are still keeping a lid on it and not saying anything. I went on social media to thank them for their policy changes and timely communication. 

Costa Rica was our first Tauck Bridges trip. It is why our upcoming trip is to be our third one!


----------



## Candycane83

laceltris3 said:


> I especially appreciate their policy updates as they have to be getting hit hard, as this kind of travel is all they do. I think it is a great contrast to the companies that are still keeping a lid on it and not saying anything. I went on social media to thank them for their policy changes and timely communication.
> 
> Costa Rica was our first Tauck Bridges trip. It is why our upcoming trip is to be our third one!


That is very true. I think they have really gone out of their way to make sure they take care of their clients. They have worked with me to move this trip by a week because they had to cancel the previous one. I think in the future I would travel with them again, maybe even more so than ABD.


----------



## disneyholic family

SirDuff said:


> I'm at the airport in Switzerland and the El Al flight to Tel Aviv is departing shortly (well, a couple of hours) and check-in appears to be progressing as normal (no one in masks that I can see).  Clearly, everyone on the flight has been to Switzerland - from this flight alone that is going to be at least 100 to quarantine.  Seems weird that they've not cancelled all direct flights from the countries needing quarantines.
> 
> I did notice that there's a flight to Milan on the board that is cancelled.



El Al has to bring home israelis who are in switzerland (and europe), but non-israelis will not be allowed to board the plane and will not be allowed to enter the country if they're coming from switzerland (or france, spain, austria, germany, italy, japan, korea, hong kong, thailand, macau and china)

And el al will stop flights to switzerland as they have the other banned countries in europe as soon as all israelis who need a ride home have been brought home.

We have thousands in home quarantine. They are tracking every case and any contact with any case is ordered into quarantine.

Most of our cases are a result of travel to italy or visiting tourists.
We have one bus driver who's in serious condition after driving a tour bus full of sick greek tourists (they didn't know they were sick at the time).
And we have a number of people who are in quarantine after having come into contact with an american tourist (from new york) who was apparently sick when she was here.
The rest of those who are sick, either had been in italy or came into contact with someone who had been in italy.
The country is trying to delay outbreak to the extent possible.

It's not possible to maintain containment forever.  Breach of containment is inevitable, but the longer you can delay it, the better off you are.

editing to add that we now have 21 cases. Definitely not good.
.
2nd edit:  there are rumors that the entire school system will be closed as soon as next week.....


----------



## disneyholic family

wow - i was just watching a biathlon competition on eurosport - yes, i'm one of those people who loves watching the biathlon...
this week's competition was in Nove Mesto, in the czech republic where the czech security council decided that no spectators would be permitted due to the corona virus..
that competition normally has 19,000 fans cheering the racers on....
it was so weird watching it with no noise at all...no cheers, nothing...
really odd..
.


----------



## sayhello

Arnold Schwarzenegger holds a huge Sports Festival (body building, etc) in Columbus, OH every year.  It's going on right now.  Only the expo that normally goes with it has been shut down (more than 250,000 attendees each year) and spectators are not allowed at the competitions.  Due to COVID-19 worries.  Arnold agreed to shutting down the expo, but really thought that banning spectators was excessive.  They're expecting 22,000 athletes from 80 countries.  

Sayhello


----------



## JandT'smom

New Cancellation Policy for Disney Cruise Line for European Cruises as of today Hope that it will eventually include Adventures by Disney:

Disney Cruise Line has updated its previously announced embarkation and sailing date policy changes 
Please note that given the current situation, Disney Cruise Line is offering temporary adjustments to its cancellation policy to provide more flexibility for its guests. Travel agents with guests currently booked on European cruises through a July 25, 2020 departure date can change their guests’ reservation up until the day before the guests’ embarkation and the guests will receive a 100% cruise credit to be used for a future sailing within 15 months of their original sail date. The credit is non-refundable and standard prevailing rates will apply.
Alternatively, guests currently booked on the July 13, July 18 and July 25 European sailings in 2020 may delay their final payment to 30 days prior to the sailing.
Travel agents should call 1-866-325-2112 to make any modifications to a client’s booking.


----------



## lovetotravel

JandT'smom said:


> New Cancellation Policy for Disney Cruise Line for European Cruises as of today Hope that it will eventually include Adventures by Disney:
> 
> Disney Cruise Line has updated its previously announced embarkation and sailing date policy changes
> Please note that given the current situation, Disney Cruise Line is offering temporary adjustments to its cancellation policy to provide more flexibility for its guests. Travel agents with guests currently booked on European cruises through a July 25, 2020 departure date can change their guests’ reservation up until the day before the guests’ embarkation and the guests will receive a 100% cruise credit to be used for a future sailing within 15 months of their original sail date. The credit is non-refundable and standard prevailing rates will apply.
> Alternatively, guests currently booked on the July 13, July 18 and July 25 European sailings in 2020 may delay their final payment to 30 days prior to the sailing.
> Travel agents should call 1-866-325-2112 to make any modifications to a client’s booking.


Hoping that ABD follows. I have 2 upcoming summer ABDs that are causing more me stress every day as cases increase worldwide.


----------



## neurosx1983

Im hoping ABD follows suit before next Thursday!


----------



## JandT'smom

I called ABD to see if they were following the cruise line and they said no changes in their policy and basically read me the script


----------



## neurosx1983

JandT'smom said:


> I called ABD to see if they were following the cruise line and they said no changes in their policy and basically read me the script



Cruise line and ABD are operated by the same division so it might happen.


----------



## disneyholic family

neurosx1983 said:


> Cruise line and ABD are operated by the same division so it might happen.


and DCL just updated their policy again, with even better conditions for their european cruises

Update – 3/6/20 4:30 pm – Disney Cruise Line has now updated their cancelation policy for sailings out of Europe this summer. Guests booked on European cruises through a July 25th departure date can now change their reservation up to 24 hours prior to embarkation. You will receive a 100% cruise credit to be used for a future sailing within 15 months of the original sale date. The credit is non-refundable and standard prevailing rates will apply. In addition to this temporary policy change, DCL is allowing guests who are currently booked on the July 13, July 18 and July 25th European sailings to delay their final payment until 30 days prior to sailing.
.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Both Toronto school boards cancelled all European spring break trips. I think it's the right call.

Dd has a girl in her AP Biology class and her mom and step dad are stuck in Italy. They don't know when they will be able to get home. She doesn't know where in Italy, but likely N. Italy. 

I am cancelling all legs of our Maldives trip (scheduled to leave April 2nd) tomorrow. We might just go to WDW for a few days or spend a week Toronto. 

I am also giving very serious consideration to cancelling our late May trip to St. Petersburg, the Arctic, Sweden and Norway. My PIF is March 20th for the land portion; unfortunately my PIF for the cruise was early February (hoping that Quark will allow us to move to another cruise next summer). I am adventurous, but the possibility of being quarantined in a foreign country is not appealing to me. Thinking of taking dd and ds on a private tour to Banff and Lake Louise.


----------



## Rapunzellover

Candycane83 said:


> That is very true. I think they have really gone out of their way to make sure they take care of their clients. They have worked with me to move this trip by a week because they had to cancel the previous one. I think in the future I would travel with them again, maybe even more so than ABD.



Did Tauck (not Bridges) last year, to Portugal, and I will make them my go to company, unless ABD has a super special Itinerary.   They are soooooo much better re: customer service.


----------



## Cliffside

lovetotravel said:


> Hoping that ABD follows. I have 2 upcoming summer ABDs that are causing more me stress every day as cases increase worldwide.


I am very stressed too. We are booked on the first Danube river cruise and I keep changing my mind about what we should do. It seems if DCL is offering these policies ABD needs to offer something to their customers.


----------



## Candycane83

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> Both Toronto school boards cancelled all European spring break trips. I think it's the right call.
> 
> Dd has a girl in her AP Biology class and her mom and step dad are stuck in Italy. They don't know when they will be able to get home. She doesn't know where in Italy, but likely N. Italy.
> 
> I am cancelling all legs of our Maldives trip (scheduled to leave April 2nd) tomorrow. We might just go to WDW for a few days or spend a week Toronto.
> 
> I am also giving very serious consideration to cancelling our late May trip to St. Petersburg, the Arctic, Sweden and Norway. My PIF is March 20th for the land portion; unfortunately my PIF for the cruise was early February (hoping that Quark will allow us to move to another cruise next summer). I am adventurous, but the possibility of being quarantined in a foreign country is not appealing to me. Thinking of taking dd and ds on a private tour to Banff and Lake Louise.



from Toronto too! I’m thinking about our Costa Rica trip too and considering the possibility of just cancelling and staying home for the week. I’m really sad though because my son is really looking forward to it already! But things change so quickly it’s making me second guess myself. The company I work for has already postponed all domestic and international travel and are prepping for all our employees to work from home!


----------



## neurosx1983

So... I just spoke with ABD. Their rationale for changing dcl cancellation policy and not ABD was literally "because cruise line is dealing with thousands of passengers and ABD is smaller and more flexible"
Makes absolutely no sense. Anyway, This whole episode has left a bad taste in my mouth for ABD. Poor communication and it seems similar to issues they had about 10 years ago, from what I've heard from Pete's rants on the DIS unplugged shows.


----------



## neurosx1983

Candycane83 said:


> from Toronto too! I’m thinking about our Costa Rica trip too and considering the possibility of just cancelling and staying home for the week. I’m really sad though because my son is really looking forward to it already! But things change so quickly it’s making me second guess myself. The company I work for has already postponed all domestic and international travel and are prepping for all our employees to work from home!



I honestly wouldn't cancel Costa Rica or places that aren't having a larger than average issue with COVID. France and Germany's numbers are pretty alarming. That's why I'm mildly freaking out.
Again, if this ABD was just the UK, I wouldn't care a bit.


----------



## AddictedtoTravel

"because cruise line is dealing with thousands of passengers and ABD is smaller and more flexible"...

I’m not sure what this means. It sounds like DCL is being way more flexible.


----------



## Candycane83

neurosx1983 said:


> I honestly wouldn't cancel Costa Rica or places that aren't having a larger than average issue with COVID. France and Germany's numbers are pretty alarming. That's why I'm mildly freaking out.
> Again, if this ABD was just the UK, I wouldn't care a bit.


Yes. It’s true right now. Latin America is just starting to find cases now but my fear is that may not be true in the next week. It wasn’t true for Italy or France or Germany until just this week and the cases just multiplied. This thing just moves so quickly and countries change their laws just like that.
No use in speculating right now I guess but that is what I’m worried about but am willing to still wait it out. Now only if I could finish packing...


----------



## lovetotravel

Cliffside said:


> I am very stressed too. We are booked on the first Danube river cruise and I keep changing my mind about what we should do. It seems if DCL is offering these policies ABD needs to offer something to their customers.


For the first time, I'm not too excited about the trip releases in May---there is no place safe to go anymore, unless things improve dramatically by then. It's a big gamble as these trips are so expensive. I put so much effort into planning pre and post trips and I'm just not motivated right now because any decision is filled with so much risk. But with the DCL policy, I would be more willing to book future trips. Even the airlines are offering flexibility, which is a way to earn loyalty, business, and consumer confidence. If ABD adopted the DCL policies, I would not cancel my trip, instead I would relax knowing that ABD supports me.


----------



## neurosx1983

lovetotravel said:


> For the first time, I'm not too excited about the trip releases in May---there is no place safe to go anymore, unless things improve dramatically by then. It's a big gamble as these trips are so expensive. I put so much effort into planning pre and post trips and I'm just not motivated right now because any decision is filled with so much risk. But with the DCL policy, I would be more willing to book future trips. Even the airlines are offering flexibility, which is a way to earn loyalty, business, and consumer confidence. If ABD adopted the DCL policies, I would not cancel my trip, instead I would relax knowing that ABD supports me.



Good point. I wonder if they'll scale back releases in May... I'm sure the number of bookings for ABD in general are going way down because of all this.


----------



## Rapunzellover

lovetotravel said:


> For the first time, I'm not too excited about the trip releases in May---there is no place safe to go anymore, unless things improve dramatically by then. It's a big gamble as these trips are so expensive. I put so much effort into planning pre and post trips and I'm just not motivated right now because any decision is filled with so much risk. But with the DCL policy, I would be more willing to book future trips. Even the airlines are offering flexibility, which is a way to earn loyalty, business, and consumer confidence. If ABD adopted the DCL policies, I would not cancel my trip, instead I would relax knowing that ABD supports me.



It is faaaaaar too early to be worried about next year.   Frankly, I'm of the mindset that either this will be under control by then, or so widespread that you won't be safe anywhere and the travel industry will be forced to adapt to handle that.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

neurosx1983 said:


> I honestly wouldn't cancel Costa Rica or places that aren't having a larger than average issue with COVID. France and Germany's numbers are pretty alarming. That's why I'm mildly freaking out.
> Again, if this ABD was just the UK, I wouldn't care a bit.


Costa Rica has a traveller from the US that tested positive (currently in quarantine there); it seems the virus is starting to spread in S. America. Personally I'd be worried about travel there at this time, but everyone has their own comfort level. I think ABD should be allowing customers booked on upcoming trips to move their funds to another trip, no matter the destination. I am very saddened by their response to this crisis and it will definitely impact my future travel-related decisions.


----------



## lovetotravel

Rapunzellover said:


> It is faaaaaar too early to be worried about next year.   Frankly, I'm of the mindset that either this will be under control by then, or so widespread that you won't be safe anywhere and the travel industry will be forced to adapt to handle that.


Yes you’re right and I agree it’s too early to be worried. I normally book ABD during May to take advantage of the early offers. But that won’t be enough to entice me this time as I’m too focused and concerned about this year that I can’t even imagine trying to book a trip next year with all the uncertainty of today. Even if it’s widespread I would still prefer to be home. The 2 ABD I have this summer are stressful enough. If the DCL policy was in place, it would have the flexibility that I would be comfortable with and might actually help me want to plan another ABD.


----------



## Sakura1017

neurosx1983 said:


> So... I just spoke with ABD. Their rationale for changing dcl cancellation policy and not ABD was literally "because cruise line is dealing with thousands of passengers and ABD is smaller and more flexible"
> Makes absolutely no sense. Anyway, This whole episode has left a bad taste in my mouth for ABD. Poor communication and it seems similar to issues they had about 10 years ago, from what I've heard from Pete's rants on the DIS unplugged shows.


Still cruise credit is not great customer service at all. At least ABD is refunding entirely if trip is canceled. I hope ABD doesn't follow the cruise line and do a credit that needs to be used within a year. No one can predict what will happen in a year. I doubt they will keep allowing rebooking. It's just not fair that DCL will give you a credit that needs to be used within a year, and it's based on the prevailing sailing date right now. So of course your spending more money again just to rebook to a different cruise that might be a lesser number of nights sailing.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

I've never thought ABD has particularly good customer service--I'm talking about the company itself not the trips--however its handling of this has even surprised me. The wait for the pack mentality is *not* what I'd expect from a brand that relies so much on its public image. The "I know ABD will take care of me" thing. (As an aside, I do think if you are caught in a bad situation on a trip abroad they have more flex than a lot of other operators, and I would prefer to be with them, It's all the pre-trip/company policy stuff I'm talking about). 

Anyway, I commiserate with all of you are having plans interrupted. It sucks to have to miss out on a trip and take a financial hit in the process. 

Since I'm traveling right now (in London), I thought I would give an update on how things are going. I have to admit that it's been more difficult and anxiety provoking than I anticipated. Don't get me wrong, the UK feels about where the US is in terms of community spread danger, so its not that I feel more vulnerable here to catching the virus than I would at home. It's the "unknown" aspect of being caught away from home if something goes wrong. I'm watching the rate of new cases very carefully. If anything goes sideways, DH will try to be on the first flight out. Our situation is complicated a little by the fact that our special needs son is at college in CA. He won't be coming home until Spring Break early next month, but I'd want at least one of us there. Our DD is at school in England so me being "stuck" here would at least keep me on the same side of the world as her. 

We are enjoying ourselves, but I way underestimated the anxiety of traveling with a bug like this going around. Avoiding public places, public transportation, etc. really limits what we want to do while we are here. It's not as big a deal for us since we visit London 3-5 times a year, but it would be a real downer for a first time visitor. We've literally walked miles to avoid jumping on the tube (which we normally love). We are doing our first train trip tomorrow, and I have to admit I'm not looking forward to it, which is a shame. We went to the British Museum for an exhibit, and it was kind of coronavirus petri dish nightmare: tons of people in a tight space and waiting for a cough or sniffle to make you jump. 

Londoners are very good about "the keep calm and carry on" mentality, which is nice, but picking up a paper or turning on the news is instant anxiety. There is an undercurrent of unease everywhere, which is understandable but not exactly holiday fun inspiring. We went to dinner a couple nights ago at a UK chain Italian restaurant in the heart of Mayfair, and at 7:30 we were the only people. Two more parties came in about 20 minutes later, but this place would usually have a wait or be packed. It was unsettling. 

So I guess I would caution anyone who is thinking about traveling ANYWHERE in the near future to think about what you are planning to do (activities) and how COVID19 anxiety might impact your vacation fun. Losing a few hundred dollars to travel later might be money well spent. Just some food for thought ...


----------



## lovetotravel

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> I've never thought ABD has particularly good customer service--I'm talking about the company itself not the trips--however its handling of this has even surprised me. The wait for the pack mentality is *not* what I'd expect from a brand that relies so much on its public image. The "I know ABD will take care of me" thing. (As an aside, I do think if you are caught in a bad situation on a trip abroad they have more flex than a lot of other operators, and I would prefer to be with them, It's all the pre-trip/company policy stuff I'm talking about).
> 
> Anyway, I commiserate with all of you are having plans interrupted. It sucks to have to miss out on a trip and take a financial hit in the process.
> 
> Since I'm traveling right now (in London), I thought I would give an update on how things are going. I have to admit that it's been more difficult and anxiety provoking than I anticipated. Don't get me wrong, the UK feels about where the US is in terms of community spread danger, so its not that I feel more vulnerable here to catching the virus than I would at home. It's the "unknown" aspect of being caught away from home if something goes wrong. I'm watching the rate of new cases very carefully. If anything goes sideways, DH will try to be on the first flight out. Our situation is complicated a little by the fact that our special needs son is at college in CA. He won't be coming home until Spring Break early next month, but I'd want at least one of us there. Our DD is at school in England so me being "stuck" here would at least keep me on the same side of the world as her.
> 
> We are enjoying ourselves, but I way underestimated the anxiety of traveling with a bug like this going around. Avoiding public places, public transportation, etc. really limits what we want to do while we are here. It's not as big a deal for us since we visit London 3-5 times a year, but it would be a real downer for a first time visitor. We've literally walked miles to avoid jumping on the tube (which we normally love). We are doing our first train trip tomorrow, and I have to admit I'm not looking forward to it, which is a shame. We went to the British Museum for an exhibit, and it was kind of coronavirus petri dish nightmare: tons of people in a tight space and waiting for a cough or sniffle to make you jump.
> 
> Londoners are very good about "the keep calm and carry on" mentality, which is nice, but picking up a paper or turning on the news is instant anxiety. There is an undercurrent of unease everywhere, which is understandable but not exactly holiday fun inspiring. We went to dinner a couple nights ago at a UK chain Italian restaurant in the heart of Mayfair, and at 7:30 we were the only people. Two more parties came in about 20 minutes later, but this place would usually have a wait or be packed. It was unsettling.
> 
> So I guess I would caution anyone who is thinking about traveling ANYWHERE in the near future to think about what you are planning to do (activities) and how COVID19 anxiety might impact your vacation fun. Losing a few hundred dollars to travel later might be money well spent. Just some food for thought ...


Thank you for this post. This is exactly why I cancelled OYO and 1 ABD upcoming trips.  The whole point of a vacation is to relieve stress. And going with ABD is the ultimate stress free vacation. Going on a vacation during this crisis is the exact opposite. As much labor and trouble as it was to cancel my OYO trip, I did it within less than 2 weeks of the trip start with very minimal loss. My 2 upcoming ABDs while still a few months away is now something I’m not looking forward to, because I’m increasing the chance that I or my family member might contract a deadly virus.

While I love ABD, I admit that I’m having a very hard time at their “Keep Calm and Carry On” approach with my 2 trips this summer. Just give me the DCL policy on this so I can move on and keep the trip and might actually have less stress the next few months. But then let me cancel when there are a thousand cases.


----------



## neurosx1983

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> I've never thought ABD has particularly good customer service--I'm talking about the company itself not the trips--however its handling of this has even surprised me. The wait for the pack mentality is *not* what I'd expect from a brand that relies so much on its public image. The "I know ABD will take care of me" thing. (As an aside, I do think if you are caught in a bad situation on a trip abroad they have more flex than a lot of other operators, and I would prefer to be with them, It's all the pre-trip/company policy stuff I'm talking about).
> 
> Anyway, I commiserate with all of you are having plans interrupted. It sucks to have to miss out on a trip and take a financial hit in the process.
> 
> Since I'm traveling right now (in London), I thought I would give an update on how things are going. I have to admit that it's been more difficult and anxiety provoking than I anticipated. Don't get me wrong, the UK feels about where the US is in terms of community spread danger, so its not that I feel more vulnerable here to catching the virus than I would at home. It's the "unknown" aspect of being caught away from home if something goes wrong. I'm watching the rate of new cases very carefully. If anything goes sideways, DH will try to be on the first flight out. Our situation is complicated a little by the fact that our special needs son is at college in CA. He won't be coming home until Spring Break early next month, but I'd want at least one of us there. Our DD is at school in England so me being "stuck" here would at least keep me on the same side of the world as her.
> 
> We are enjoying ourselves, but I way underestimated the anxiety of traveling with a bug like this going around. Avoiding public places, public transportation, etc. really limits what we want to do while we are here. It's not as big a deal for us since we visit London 3-5 times a year, but it would be a real downer for a first time visitor. We've literally walked miles to avoid jumping on the tube (which we normally love). We are doing our first train trip tomorrow, and I have to admit I'm not looking forward to it, which is a shame. We went to the British Museum for an exhibit, and it was kind of coronavirus petri dish nightmare: tons of people in a tight space and waiting for a cough or sniffle to make you jump.
> 
> Londoners are very good about "the keep calm and carry on" mentality, which is nice, but picking up a paper or turning on the news is instant anxiety. There is an undercurrent of unease everywhere, which is understandable but not exactly holiday fun inspiring. We went to dinner a couple nights ago at a UK chain Italian restaurant in the heart of Mayfair, and at 7:30 we were the only people. Two more parties came in about 20 minutes later, but this place would usually have a wait or be packed. It was unsettling.
> 
> So I guess I would caution anyone who is thinking about traveling ANYWHERE in the near future to think about what you are planning to do (activities) and how COVID19 anxiety might impact your vacation fun. Losing a few hundred dollars to travel later might be money well spent. Just some food for thought ...



All excellent points. My point to ABD whenever I call them which is almost on a daily basis, is that I just don’t feel comfortable going on this trip anymore. And I would hope that it would sink into them even more because I’m a physician saying that. My wife is a physician too by the way. And we’re both honestly concerned. However I and everyone else on the trip who has not canceled yet just don’t want to lose at least 25%… Maybe that’s a silly thing but these trips are expensive so 25% is quite a bit. Anyway, we will see what happens in the next couple of days I guess.

and it’s not that their customer service is rude or dismissive in any way. They’ve been very nice it’s just that they have this mentality almost like it’s not a big deal. And God knows I hope they’re right in the long run


----------



## ImprovGal

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> I've never thought ABD has particularly good customer service--I'm talking about the company itself not the trips--however its handling of this has even surprised me. The wait for the pack mentality is *not* what I'd expect from a brand that relies so much on its public image. The "I know ABD will take care of me" thing. (As an aside, I do think if you are caught in a bad situation on a trip abroad they have more flex than a lot of other operators, and I would prefer to be with them, It's all the pre-trip/company policy stuff I'm talking about).
> 
> Anyway, I commiserate with all of you are having plans interrupted. It sucks to have to miss out on a trip and take a financial hit in the process.
> 
> Since I'm traveling right now (in London), I thought I would give an update on how things are going. I have to admit that it's been more difficult and anxiety provoking than I anticipated. Don't get me wrong, the UK feels about where the US is in terms of community spread danger, so its not that I feel more vulnerable here to catching the virus than I would at home. It's the "unknown" aspect of being caught away from home if something goes wrong. I'm watching the rate of new cases very carefully. If anything goes sideways, DH will try to be on the first flight out. Our situation is complicated a little by the fact that our special needs son is at college in CA. He won't be coming home until Spring Break early next month, but I'd want at least one of us there. Our DD is at school in England so me being "stuck" here would at least keep me on the same side of the world as her.
> 
> We are enjoying ourselves, but I way underestimated the anxiety of traveling with a bug like this going around. Avoiding public places, public transportation, etc. really limits what we want to do while we are here. It's not as big a deal for us since we visit London 3-5 times a year, but it would be a real downer for a first time visitor. We've literally walked miles to avoid jumping on the tube (which we normally love). We are doing our first train trip tomorrow, and I have to admit I'm not looking forward to it, which is a shame. We went to the British Museum for an exhibit, and it was kind of coronavirus petri dish nightmare: tons of people in a tight space and waiting for a cough or sniffle to make you jump.
> 
> Londoners are very good about "the keep calm and carry on" mentality, which is nice, but picking up a paper or turning on the news is instant anxiety. There is an undercurrent of unease everywhere, which is understandable but not exactly holiday fun inspiring. We went to dinner a couple nights ago at a UK chain Italian restaurant in the heart of Mayfair, and at 7:30 we were the only people. Two more parties came in about 20 minutes later, but this place would usually have a wait or be packed. It was unsettling.
> 
> So I guess I would caution anyone who is thinking about traveling ANYWHERE in the near future to think about what you are planning to do (activities) and how COVID19 anxiety might impact your vacation fun. Losing a few hundred dollars to travel later might be money well spent. Just some food for thought ...



Thank you for your perspective.  I'm booked for a trip to London in a couple of weeks (not a tour, just a long weekend to see a play, already rescheduled once due to storm Dennis).  I've accepted that I will most likely be cancelling, but am watching and waiting until the last minute to decide.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

Sakura1017 said:


> Still cruise credit is not great customer service at all. At least ABD is refunding entirely if trip is canceled. I hope ABD doesn't follow the cruise line and do a credit that needs to be used within a year. No one can predict what will happen in a year. I doubt they will keep allowing rebooking. It's just not fair that DCL will give you a credit that needs to be used within a year, and it's based on the prevailing sailing date right now. So of course your spending more money again just to rebook to a different cruise that might be a lesser number of nights sailing.



I so agree with this.  I just canceled a trip to Mexico and ended up with a credit with Delta and with the resort in Mexico.  Both credits have to be used by mid-December - it's thousands of dollars in credits and I'm sweating when I'm actually going to use them.  If our ABD is a go for the summer, I can use the Delta credit, but I have no clue when we can get to Mexico prior to December with school and camp schedules.  ugh.


----------



## Calfan

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> I've never thought ABD has particularly good customer service--I'm talking about the company itself not the trips--however its handling of this has even surprised me. The wait for the pack mentality is *not* what I'd expect from a brand that relies so much on its public image. The "I know ABD will take care of me" thing. (As an aside, I do think if you are caught in a bad situation on a trip abroad they have more flex than a lot of other operators, and I would prefer to be with them, It's all the pre-trip/company policy stuff I'm talking about).
> 
> Anyway, I commiserate with all of you are having plans interrupted. It sucks to have to miss out on a trip and take a financial hit in the process.
> 
> Since I'm traveling right now (in London), I thought I would give an update on how things are going. I have to admit that it's been more difficult and anxiety provoking than I anticipated. Don't get me wrong, the UK feels about where the US is in terms of community spread danger, so its not that I feel more vulnerable here to catching the virus than I would at home. It's the "unknown" aspect of being caught away from home if something goes wrong. I'm watching the rate of new cases very carefully. If anything goes sideways, DH will try to be on the first flight out. Our situation is complicated a little by the fact that our special needs son is at college in CA. He won't be coming home until Spring Break early next month, but I'd want at least one of us there. Our DD is at school in England so me being "stuck" here would at least keep me on the same side of the world as her.
> 
> We are enjoying ourselves, but I way underestimated the anxiety of traveling with a bug like this going around. Avoiding public places, public transportation, etc. really limits what we want to do while we are here. It's not as big a deal for us since we visit London 3-5 times a year, but it would be a real downer for a first time visitor. We've literally walked miles to avoid jumping on the tube (which we normally love). We are doing our first train trip tomorrow, and I have to admit I'm not looking forward to it, which is a shame. We went to the British Museum for an exhibit, and it was kind of coronavirus petri dish nightmare: tons of people in a tight space and waiting for a cough or sniffle to make you jump.
> 
> Londoners are very good about "the keep calm and carry on" mentality, which is nice, but picking up a paper or turning on the news is instant anxiety. There is an undercurrent of unease everywhere, which is understandable but not exactly holiday fun inspiring. We went to dinner a couple nights ago at a UK chain Italian restaurant in the heart of Mayfair, and at 7:30 we were the only people. Two more parties came in about 20 minutes later, but this place would usually have a wait or be packed. It was unsettling.
> 
> So I guess I would caution anyone who is thinking about traveling ANYWHERE in the near future to think about what you are planning to do (activities) and how COVID19 anxiety might impact your vacation fun. Losing a few hundred dollars to travel later might be money well spent. Just some food for thought ...



Really interesting to get your perspective on this since you travel so much. We’re still planning to make our Spring Break trips to Hawaii and then on to Scotland for DD and me to attend the offer holder days at Glasgow and Edinburgh. Nothing from either school so far about cancelling. In fact, Glasgow just sent out their event guide and info on how to download the Offer Holder Day app. But I’m going to wait until the night before to cancel the SW flights that would take DD and me back to Boise from the Bay Area with DH and DS just in case both schools cancel last minute. If that happens, we shouldn’t be out of pocket too much. Hotel is on points and cancellable. All flights are on miles and worse case is a redeposit fee for those but hopeful those would be waived. I also think the return train tix I bought from Glasgow to Edinburgh are refundable as well. I’d be so disappointed for DD if those days get cancelled though.  We’re also still waiting and seeing for our Japan trip in June. PIF is March 22, but waiting to see if Thomson will tell us to hold off.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

I received the below e-mail from Tours by Locals with respect to a day tour we have booked in Bergen in June. How hard would it be for ABD to adopt a similar policy? If a family isn't comfortable traveling with the virus currently spreading around the globe, then they should be able to cancel and not have to worry about the financial impact.

W_e hope you are looking forward to your upcoming tour with ToursByLocals, and that you don’t have to make any changes to your travel plans. We understand though that uncertainty surrounding the novel Coronavirus (COVID-19) is making it difficult for many people to make travel plans right now, or to decide whether they can proceed with plans already arranged. It’s stressful not knowing whether a destination that is unaffected today will still be safe in a week or a month. We understand that your concerns are stretching around the globe right now, and we want to respond to that.

We’re doing a couple things: first, we’ve created a Coronavirus Info Page. Here we’re sharing updates from the Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), along with our own real-time data on where ToursByLocals travelers are booking the most tours, and cancelling the most tours. We hope it will give you a sense of where people are currently feeling comfortable traveling.

Second, we’ve updated our cancellation policy. ToursByLocals has always had a Force Majeure policy in place for all travelers, meaning that should an event beyond our control prevent you from taking a tour, your tour will be refunded in full. Coronavirus has become a global force majeure event, not only in hotspots like China and South Korea, but everywhere.

What does this mean for you? *Effective immediately, you can receive a full refund on any tour you book, or have already booked, then choose to cancel due to the Coronavirus.*. You can book your tour with confidence, or proceed with your current plans for the time being, knowing that if the global situation changes and you choose not to travel, you will receive a full refund. This applies to every ToursByLocals tour, in every destination, booked for anytime in 2020.

This option will be in place until the end of April, at which point we’ll re-assess the travel situation.

Why are we doing this? While we are hopeful that the current outbreak will be contained, we want your trip planning experience to be an exciting one, not one fraught with anxiety. We’ve heard from many travelers that their other travel providers – be they airlines, cruise lines or hotels – just aren’t responding in a fair or considerate way to the current situation. We want to do better.

If you have any questions about this notice, or about booking tours in any destination, please don’t hesitate to get in touch with us via LiveChat, email or phone. Our support team is available 24/7._


----------



## Calfan

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I received the below e-mail from Tours by Locals with respect to a day tour we have booked in Bergen in June. How hard would it be for ABD to adopt a similar policy? If a family isn't comfortable traveling with the virus currently spreading around the globe, then they should be able to cancel and not have to worry about the financial impact.
> 
> W_e hope you are looking forward to your upcoming tour with ToursByLocals, and that you don’t have to make any changes to your travel plans. We understand though that uncertainty surrounding the novel Coronavirus (COVID-19) is making it difficult for many people to make travel plans right now, or to decide whether they can proceed with plans already arranged. It’s stressful not knowing whether a destination that is unaffected today will still be safe in a week or a month. We understand that your concerns are stretching around the globe right now, and we want to respond to that.
> 
> We’re doing a couple things: first, we’ve created a Coronavirus Info Page. Here we’re sharing updates from the Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), along with our own real-time data on where ToursByLocals travelers are booking the most tours, and cancelling the most tours. We hope it will give you a sense of where people are currently feeling comfortable traveling.
> 
> Second, we’ve updated our cancellation policy. ToursByLocals has always had a Force Majeure policy in place for all travelers, meaning that should an event beyond our control prevent you from taking a tour, your tour will be refunded in full. Coronavirus has become a global force majeure event, not only in hotspots like China and South Korea, but everywhere.
> 
> What does this mean for you? *Effective immediately, you can receive a full refund on any tour you book, or have already booked, then choose to cancel due to the Coronavirus.*. You can book your tour with confidence, or proceed with your current plans for the time being, knowing that if the global situation changes and you choose not to travel, you will receive a full refund. This applies to every ToursByLocals tour, in every destination, booked for anytime in 2020.
> 
> This option will be in place until the end of April, at which point we’ll re-assess the travel situation.
> 
> Why are we doing this? While we are hopeful that the current outbreak will be contained, we want your trip planning experience to be an exciting one, not one fraught with anxiety. We’ve heard from many travelers that their other travel providers – be they airlines, cruise lines or hotels – just aren’t responding in a fair or considerate way to the current situation. We want to do better.
> 
> If you have any questions about this notice, or about booking tours in any destination, please don’t hesitate to get in touch with us via LiveChat, email or phone. Our support team is available 24/7._



What an awesome approach and email. *That* is the way to make people want to book with you now and in the future!


----------



## Calfan

Here is the latest from Thomson about our Japan trip. We still really want to go, so fingers crossed.


We have no reason to believe that your trip will be impacted, and – as with all our destinations – we are closely following local and international sources of information on the situation. No governments have proposed restricting travel to Japan as a result of the virus, and the US Department of State as well as the CDC still consider Japan as a category 2, which is the same level as Germany, Netherlands, Denmark, UK, Spain, and many others. There are high numbers of the virus reported for Japan and this includes people quarantined on the cruise ship. On mainland Japan, there are not as many cases.

Our trips are operating normally, and guests are still enjoying their worldwide adventures! Thomson Family Adventures normal booking conditions remain in effect, and should the government declare any changes to the current status, and advise against traveling to Japan, we will, of course be as flexible as possible to ensure they are able to travel at a later time. As we get closer to departure this will become more difficult, but we will do our best. We want our travelers to be and feel safe when traveling. This is our top priority.

On the day to day level, life is proceeding as normal in Japan. In fact, people in Japan are more concerned about the flu, like we are here in the U.S. Many people, particularly in hospitality, are wearing face masks as a precaution, and as a public service, hand-washing stations and disinfectants have been made widely available in many public locations. This is a very common practice all the time in Japan though. Many doctors have suggested that frequent, thorough hand-washing and avoiding touching your mouth and eyes are amongst the best preventive measures.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

lovetotravel said:


> Thank you for this post. This is exactly why I cancelled OYO and 1 ABD upcoming trips.  The whole point of a vacation is to relieve stress. And going with ABD is the ultimate stress free vacation. Going on a vacation during this crisis is the exact opposite. As much labor and trouble as it was to cancel my OYO trip, I did it within less than 2 weeks of the trip start with very minimal loss. My 2 upcoming ABDs while still a few months away is now something I’m not looking forward to, because I’m increasing the chance that I or my family member might contract a deadly virus.
> 
> While I love ABD, I admit that I’m having a very hard time at their “Keep Calm and Carry On” approach with my 2 trips this summer. Just give me the DCL policy on this so I can move on and keep the trip and might actually have less stress the next few months. But then let me cancel when there are a thousand cases.


It really sucks that you had to cancel your two trips, but I agree about a vacation not being about stress! I think ABDs lack of response to this has been pretty abysmal. 



neurosx1983 said:


> All excellent points. My point to ABD whenever I call them which is almost on a daily basis, is that I just don’t feel comfortable going on this trip anymore. And I would hope that it would sink into them even more because I’m a physician saying that. My wife is a physician too by the way. And we’re both honestly concerned. However I and everyone else on the trip who has not canceled yet just don’t want to lose at least 25%… Maybe that’s a silly thing but these trips are expensive so 25% is quite a bit. Anyway, we will see what happens in the next couple of days I guess.
> 
> and it’s not that their customer service is rude or dismissive in any way. They’ve been very nice it’s just that they have this mentality almost like it’s not a big deal. And God knows I hope they’re right in the long run


I hope it sinks into them, too--25% is a ridiculous amount to lose. I'm sure the vacationistas are awesome at repeating the party line, but IMO friendly agents don't make good customer service. That's where I think Disney gets it mixed up. They may have the friendliest workers in the business but that doesn't make up for unfriendly customer policies. They are obviously very centralized and don't have the nimbleness and flexibility to deal with things quickly--or on the ground. It all has to come from above. 



ImprovGal said:


> Thank you for your perspective.  I'm booked for a trip to London in a couple of weeks (not a tour, just a long weekend to see a play, already rescheduled once due to storm Dennis).  I've accepted that I will most likely be cancelling, but am watching and waiting until the last minute to decide.


I don't wish we hadn't come--although I have to admit I would feel *much* better if it were just me here and DH as at home to take care of anything that might happen there. I think my advice to anyone trying to figure out whether to cancel is to think of what would happen if you got stuck wherever you are going for a few weeks. Also, think about the type of things you are planning on doing and whether they involve lots of public transportation and/or tourist sites. Even doing a walk outside today I was very uncomfortable when we walked by Buckingham Palace because of all the crowds. I'm finding myself looking at everyone with suspicion. If I were on a tour going from tourist site to tourist site, I would not be happy. So sorry to hear that the hurricane had interrupted your first go around,. That sucks! 



Calfan said:


> Really interesting to get your perspective on this since you travel so much. We’re still planning to make our Spring Break trips to Hawaii and then on to Scotland for DD and me to attend the offer holder days at Glasgow and Edinburgh. Nothing from either school so far about cancelling. In fact, Glasgow just sent out their event guide and info on how to download the Offer Holder Day app. But I’m going to wait until the night before to cancel the SW flights that would take DD and me back to Boise from the Bay Area with DH and DS just in case both schools cancel last minute. If that happens, we shouldn’t be out of pocket too much. Hotel is on points and cancellable. All flights are on miles and worse case is a redeposit fee for those but hopeful those would be waived. I also think the return train tix I bought from Glasgow to Edinburgh are refundable as well. I’d be so disappointed for DD if those days get cancelled though.  We’re also still waiting and seeing for our Japan trip in June. PIF is March 22, but waiting to see if Thomson will tell us to hold off.



I'm going to be watching Hawaii very carefully. It really is uncomfortable traveling right now, and if things get much worse in the US, I might be cancelling. Getting stuck somewhere is a real fear, and I underestimated how much I"d be thinking and worrying about it. 



*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I received the below e-mail from Tours by Locals with respect to a day tour we have booked in Bergen in June. How hard would it be for ABD to adopt a similar policy? If a family isn't comfortable traveling with the virus currently spreading around the globe, then they should be able to cancel and not have to worry about the financial impact.
> 
> W_e hope you are looking forward to your upcoming tour with ToursByLocals, and that you don’t have to make any changes to your travel plans. We understand though that uncertainty surrounding the novel Coronavirus (COVID-19) is making it difficult for many people to make travel plans right now, or to decide whether they can proceed with plans already arranged. It’s stressful not knowing whether a destination that is unaffected today will still be safe in a week or a month. We understand that your concerns are stretching around the globe right now, and we want to respond to that.
> 
> We’re doing a couple things: first, we’ve created a Coronavirus Info Page. Here we’re sharing updates from the Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), along with our own real-time data on where ToursByLocals travelers are booking the most tours, and cancelling the most tours. We hope it will give you a sense of where people are currently feeling comfortable traveling.
> 
> Second, we’ve updated our cancellation policy. ToursByLocals has always had a Force Majeure policy in place for all travelers, meaning that should an event beyond our control prevent you from taking a tour, your tour will be refunded in full. Coronavirus has become a global force majeure event, not only in hotspots like China and South Korea, but everywhere.
> 
> What does this mean for you? *Effective immediately, you can receive a full refund on any tour you book, or have already booked, then choose to cancel due to the Coronavirus.*. You can book your tour with confidence, or proceed with your current plans for the time being, knowing that if the global situation changes and you choose not to travel, you will receive a full refund. This applies to every ToursByLocals tour, in every destination, booked for anytime in 2020.
> 
> This option will be in place until the end of April, at which point we’ll re-assess the travel situation.
> 
> Why are we doing this? While we are hopeful that the current outbreak will be contained, we want your trip planning experience to be an exciting one, not one fraught with anxiety. We’ve heard from many travelers that their other travel providers – be they airlines, cruise lines or hotels – just aren’t responding in a fair or considerate way to the current situation. We want to do better.
> 
> If you have any questions about this notice, or about booking tours in any destination, please don’t hesitate to get in touch with us via LiveChat, email or phone. Our support team is available 24/7._


This is phenomenal and exactly what I mean by great customer service. I think it's actually going above and beyond. Wow. ABD wake up!


----------



## SnappySerape

Calfan said:


> Here is the latest from Thomson about our Japan trip. We still really want to go, so fingers crossed.
> 
> 
> We have no reason to believe that your trip will be impacted, and – as with all our destinations – we are closely following local and international sources of information on the situation. No governments have proposed restricting travel to Japan as a result of the virus, and the US Department of State as well as the CDC still consider Japan as a category 2, which is the same level as Germany, Netherlands, Denmark, UK, Spain, and many others. There are high numbers of the virus reported for Japan and this includes people quarantined on the cruise ship. On mainland Japan, there are not as many cases.
> 
> Our trips are operating normally, and guests are still enjoying their worldwide adventures! Thomson Family Adventures normal booking conditions remain in effect, and should the government declare any changes to the current status, and advise against traveling to Japan, we will, of course be as flexible as possible to ensure they are able to travel at a later time. As we get closer to departure this will become more difficult, but we will do our best. We want our travelers to be and feel safe when traveling. This is our top priority.
> 
> On the day to day level, life is proceeding as normal in Japan. In fact, people in Japan are more concerned about the flu, like we are here in the U.S. Many people, particularly in hospitality, are wearing face masks as a precaution, and as a public service, hand-washing stations and disinfectants have been made widely available in many public locations. This is a very common practice all the time in Japan though. Many doctors have suggested that frequent, thorough hand-washing and avoiding touching your mouth and eyes are amongst the best preventive measures.



That's interesting! I have the Japan ABD in mid May. I was just contacted by my TA yesterday to tell me that ABD has cancelled the trip. Now I'm trying to feel out whether I'm comfortable pushing it to later this year or wait until 2021. I'm leaning towards the latter...


----------



## Calfan

SnappySerape said:


> That's interesting! I have the Japan ABD in mid May. I was just contacted by my TA yesterday to tell me that ABD has cancelled the trip. Now I'm trying to feel out whether I'm comfortable pushing it to later this year or wait until 2021. I'm leaning towards the latter...



Our departure date with Thomson is June 19, but we are scheduled to arrive on June 16 for 3 nights at TDR.


----------



## disneyholic family

SnappySerape said:


> That's interesting! I have the Japan ABD in mid May. I was just contacted by my TA yesterday to tell me that ABD has cancelled the trip. Now I'm trying to feel out whether I'm comfortable pushing it to later this year or wait until 2021. I'm leaning towards the latter...



ABD cancelled japan in May?  
Have they cancelled any other tours?
The numbers in France are starting to go exponential as also appears to be the case now in the UK which had a huge jump in cases from yesterday to today (more than double the cases in only one day).
So i really don't know why they're not cancelling.

the current numbers are at this website (UK is up to 206, France up to 716):
https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
and this one's a bit more visual (though i prefer the Hopkins dashboard above - perhaps because i'm a Hopkins grad   ).
https://nextstrain.org/ncov
.


----------



## AddictedtoTravel

Calfan said:


> quoting Thomson Family Adventures...
> CDC still consider Japan as a category 2, which is the same level as Germany, Netherlands, Denmark, UK, Spain, and many others.


According to the CDC this is not accurate. The only level 2 country for Covid-19 listed is Japan. There are no level 2 or even 1 for "Germany, Netherlands, Denmark, UK, Spain, and many others" I'm not sure what they are referring to?


----------



## sayhello

Sakura1017 said:


> *Still cruise credit is not great customer service at all. At least ABD is refunding entirely if trip is canceled. *I hope ABD doesn't follow the cruise line and do a credit that needs to be used within a year. No one can predict what will happen in a year. I doubt they will keep allowing rebooking. It's just not fair that DCL will give you a credit that needs to be used within a year, and it's based on the prevailing sailing date right now. So of course your spending more money again just to rebook to a different cruise that might be a lesser number of nights sailing.


This is DCL's policy if **you** cancel, and is very generous.  They haven't said anything about their policy if *they* cancel.  I imagine that's on a case by case basis.  I can't imagine them not giving you a refund if *they* cancel, though.



AddictedtoTravel said:


> According to the CDC this is not accurate. The only level 2 country for Covid-19 listed is Japan. There are no level 2 or even 1 for "Germany, Netherlands, Denmark, UK, Spain, and many others" I'm not sure what they are referring to?


Yes, that's confusing.  Level 3+ is China and Iran, Level 3 is South Korea and Italy, Level 2 is Japan, and Level 1 is Hong Kong.   I haven't seen anything different than this.

Sayhello


----------



## disneyholic family

the CDC recommends that anyone over the age of 60 as well as those with underlying health problems should stay home to the extent possible.
So isn't that enough for ABD to let people cancel without penalty????????????
.


----------



## disneyholic family

AddictedtoTravel said:


> According to the CDC this is not accurate. The only level 2 country for Covid-19 listed is Japan. There are no level 2 or even 1 for "Germany, Netherlands, Denmark, UK, Spain, and many others" I'm not sure what they are referring to?


as of today, japan has 461 confirmed cases
France has 716 confirmed cases - almost double japan
German has 799 confirmed cases 
Spain has 500 confirmed cases.

and what's of greater concern, the day by day jump has been very high in Europe. 

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6.


----------



## lovetotravel

AddictedtoTravel said:


> According to the CDC this is not accurate. The only level 2 country for Covid-19 listed is Japan. There are no level 2 or even 1 for "Germany, Netherlands, Denmark, UK, Spain, and many others" I'm not sure what they are referring to?


There are 2 travel advisories. One is a health advisory that's issued by the CDC, and another travel advisory that's issued by the US Dept of State, which includes other threats such as health, terrorism, etc. And if you research the other countries listed, you will find they are a 2 and for what reason.
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories.html/
I register all my trips with the US Dept of State and they send me notification and updates for the countries I am visiting. You can register here:
https://step.state.gov


----------



## lovetotravel

I want to thank these companies for offering full refunds or exchanges during this world crisis. They didn't have to do anything but they went above and beyond, by bending their polices to show that nothing is more important to them than my safety:  *Delta Airlines, Vietnam Airlines, Hilton, and Secret Food Tours*


----------



## Theta

Yes, @disneyholic family,  ABD Japan May 17th and May 30th departures cancelled.


----------



## disneyholic family

Theta said:


> Yes, @disneyholic family,  ABD Japan May 17th and May 30th departures cancelled.


why aren't they cancelling the UK/France trip next week?
it seems ridiculous, not to mention dangerous and foolhardy for them to take a group to europe at this time.
and if not cancel, then let people cancel without penalty..
i'm 64 - if i were on that tour, i would cancel regardless of penalty, but ABD should be letting people cancel (just as DCL is doing)
.
.


----------



## lovetotravel

disneyholic family said:


> why aren't they cancelling the UK/France trip next week?
> it seems ridiculous, not to mention dangerous and foolhardy for them to take a group to europe at this time.
> and if not cancel, then let people cancel without penalty


Japan is a CDC Level 2 travel health notice. Perhaps that's their new threshold of cancellation?
And as someone mentioned there's more cases in France and Germany than Japan.


----------



## Candycane83

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> It really sucks that you had to cancel your two trips, but I agree about a vacation not being about stress! I think ABDs lack of response to this has been pretty abysmal.
> 
> 
> I hope it sinks into them, too--25% is a ridiculous amount to lose. I'm sure the vacationistas are awesome at repeating the party line, but IMO friendly agents don't make good customer service. That's where I think Disney gets it mixed up. They may have the friendliest workers in the business but that doesn't make up for unfriendly customer policies. They are obviously very centralized and don't have the nimbleness and flexibility to deal with things quickly--or on the ground. It all has to come from above.
> 
> 
> I don't wish we hadn't come--although I have to admit I would feel *much* better if it were just me here and DH as at home to take care of anything that might happen there. I think my advice to anyone trying to figure out whether to cancel is to think of what would happen if you got stuck wherever you are going for a few weeks. Also, think about the type of things you are planning on doing and whether they involve lots of public transportation and/or tourist sites. Even doing a walk outside today I was very uncomfortable when we walked by Buckingham Palace because of all the crowds. I'm finding myself looking at everyone with suspicion. If I were on a tour going from tourist site to tourist site, I would not be happy. So sorry to hear that the hurricane had interrupted your first go around,. That sucks!
> 
> 
> 
> I'm going to be watching Hawaii very carefully. It really is uncomfortable traveling right now, and if things get much worse in the US, I might be cancelling. Getting stuck somewhere is a real fear, and I underestimated how much I"d be thinking and worrying about it.
> 
> 
> This is phenomenal and exactly what I mean by great customer service. I think it's actually going above and beyond. Wow. ABD wake up!


I have to say that your response is really making me think about just moving Costa Rica to next year. I do not think I would be comfortable being stuck there for 2 weeks. I’m still keeping an eye on Spain for July but that is looking bleak as well. Even WDW in December might be a question of what happens these next few months. The growth rate of this virus is just so quick and there’s so much uncertainty on how things are handled in each place. Now I’m going to struggle and see what am I going to do this March break. Being safe is better but it doesn’t mean it doesn’t suck! It also makes my plan of going back to Asia next year more improbable.


----------



## AddictedtoTravel

lovetotravel said:


> There are 2 travel advisories. One is a health advisory that's issued by the CDC, and another travel advisory that's issued by the US Dept of State, which includes other threats such as health, terrorism, etc.



Thanks, I didn't look at the US Dept of State website.
We're heading out on the South Africa trip that leaves in a little over a week. Because of the global concern I am trying to avoid even the appearance of sniffles. I think the heighten anxiety will certainly impact the stress free travel that I appreciate with ABD. I am also a little concerned that there may be things closed or we may miss some activities.


----------



## morgan98

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> I've never thought ABD has particularly good customer service--I'm talking about the company itself not the trips--however its handling of this has even surprised me. The wait for the pack mentality is *not* what I'd expect from a brand that relies so much on its public image. The "I know ABD will take care of me" thing. (As an aside, I do think if you are caught in a bad situation on a trip abroad they have more flex than a lot of other operators, and I would prefer to be with them, It's all the pre-trip/company policy stuff I'm talking about).
> 
> Anyway, I commiserate with all of you are having plans interrupted. It sucks to have to miss out on a trip and take a financial hit in the process.
> 
> Since I'm traveling right now (in London), I thought I would give an update on how things are going. I have to admit that it's been more difficult and anxiety provoking than I anticipated. Don't get me wrong, the UK feels about where the US is in terms of community spread danger, so its not that I feel more vulnerable here to catching the virus than I would at home. It's the "unknown" aspect of being caught away from home if something goes wrong. I'm watching the rate of new cases very carefully. If anything goes sideways, DH will try to be on the first flight out. Our situation is complicated a little by the fact that our special needs son is at college in CA. He won't be coming home until Spring Break early next month, but I'd want at least one of us there. Our DD is at school in England so me being "stuck" here would at least keep me on the same side of the world as her.
> 
> We are enjoying ourselves, but I way underestimated the anxiety of traveling with a bug like this going around. Avoiding public places, public transportation, etc. really limits what we want to do while we are here. It's not as big a deal for us since we visit London 3-5 times a year, but it would be a real downer for a first time visitor. We've literally walked miles to avoid jumping on the tube (which we normally love). We are doing our first train trip tomorrow, and I have to admit I'm not looking forward to it, which is a shame. We went to the British Museum for an exhibit, and it was kind of coronavirus petri dish nightmare: tons of people in a tight space and waiting for a cough or sniffle to make you jump.
> 
> Londoners are very good about "the keep calm and carry on" mentality, which is nice, but picking up a paper or turning on the news is instant anxiety. There is an undercurrent of unease everywhere, which is understandable but not exactly holiday fun inspiring. We went to dinner a couple nights ago at a UK chain Italian restaurant in the heart of Mayfair, and at 7:30 we were the only people. Two more parties came in about 20 minutes later, but this place would usually have a wait or be packed. It was unsettling.
> 
> So I guess I would caution anyone who is thinking about traveling ANYWHERE in the near future to think about what you are planning to do (activities) and how COVID19 anxiety might impact your vacation fun. Losing a few hundred dollars to travel later might be money well spent. Just some food for thought ...



This is great insight.  As I have already posted, my husband is still in Italy (Florence) and booked home on a direct flight from Rome to Atlanta on Tuesday.   I am disappointed that I am not meeting him there later this week as planned - but I am probably more relieved than disappointed at this time.

He got to Italy on February 26th right as things were really ramping up and for that first week or so, he said things were fairly normal and the locals upbeat.  However, this has changed in the past couple of days. The Italians are really realizing the severity of this problem and that it is not going away anytime soon.  I am not trying to be a Debbie Downer, but just saying that I do not thing traveling to Italy is going to be encouraged in the near future.  My mom was born in Italy (in the Veneto, one of the impacted regions).  She is always in touch with her cousins there that we visit regularly.  She has also said that when she spoke to them yesterday, they are starting to sound very down and concerned as things are not getting better.

All of this to say, I believe travel is stressful right now.  In addition, places like France, Spain and the UK are reporting more and more cases.  Just seem strange that Italy is a Level 3 and some of these other countries are not.  The virus does not know borders and Europe is relatively small.  France and Austria are much closer to the impacted regions of Italy than Southern Italy is.  I would not be surprised if there are restrictions to more countries to as the testing continues to increase and more cases are found.


----------



## neurosx1983

disneyholic family said:


> why aren't they cancelling the UK/France trip next week?
> it seems ridiculous, not to mention dangerous and foolhardy for them to take a group to europe at this time.
> and if not cancel, then let people cancel without penalty..
> i'm 64 - if i were on that tour, i would cancel regardless of penalty, but ABD should be letting people cancel (just as DCL is doing)
> .
> .



I’m with you 100%.  I’m working hard to try and get out of this trip without paying a big penalty. But I might just do it. I feel ridiculous putting my family at risk like this.

You would think Disney would stop and think if a physician who is on the trip is calling them and worried. But they’re not. Life goes on for them.


----------



## disneyholic family

neurosx1983 said:


> I’m with you 100%.  I’m working hard to try and get out of this trip without paying a big penalty. But I might just do it. I feel ridiculous putting my family at risk like this.
> 
> You would think Disney would stop and think if a physician who is on the trip is calling them and worried. But they’re not. Life goes on for them.



i totally get it that you're waiting until the last minute as you have nothing to lose at this point by waiting them out.
I would do that too. 
You'll be no worse off if you wait until the very last second to cancel, and maybe just maybe ABD will grow a brain and realize they need to let people cancel.

.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Candycane83 said:


> I have to say that your response is really making me think about just moving Costa Rica to next year. I do not think I would be comfortable being stuck there for 2 weeks. I’m still keeping an eye on Spain for July but that is looking bleak as well. Even WDW in December might be a question of what happens these next few months. The growth rate of this virus is just so quick and there’s so much uncertainty on how things are handled in each place. Now I’m going to struggle and see what am I going to do this March break. Being safe is better but it doesn’t mean it doesn’t suck! It also makes my plan of going back to Asia next year more improbable.



I think everyone has to decide what kind of uncertainty they are comfortable with and how fun a vacation is going to be with something like this going on. From what I've been reading, it sounds as if this going away anytime soon isn't likely. I echo your thoughts: this sucks! 



morgan98 said:


> This is great insight.  As I have already posted, my husband is still in Italy (Florence) and booked home on a direct flight from Rome to Atlanta on Tuesday.   I am disappointed that I am not meeting him there later this week as planned - but I am probably more relieved than disappointed at this time.
> 
> He got to Italy on February 26th right as things were really ramping up and for that first week or so, he said things were fairly normal and the locals upbeat.  However, this has changed in the past couple of days. The Italians are really realizing the severity of this problem and that it is not going away anytime soon.  I am not trying to be a Debbie Downer, but just saying that I do not thing traveling to Italy is going to be encouraged in the near future.  My mom was born in Italy (in the Veneto, one of the impacted regions).  She is always in touch with her cousins there that we visit regularly.  She has also said that when she spoke to them yesterday, they are starting to sound very down and concerned as things are not getting better.
> 
> All of this to say, I believe travel is stressful right now.  In addition, places like France, Spain and the UK are reporting more and more cases.  Just seem strange that Italy is a Level 3 and some of these other countries are not.  The virus does not know borders and Europe is relatively small.  France and Austria are much closer to the impacted regions of Italy than Southern Italy is.  I would not be surprised if there are restrictions to more countries to as the testing continues to increase and more cases are found.


 
The situation is changing so quickly that's one of the anxiety provoking things about it. When we left on Monday there were relatively few cases here (maybe 30ish?). But the rate has really accelerated since then. Believe me, I've thought a few times about being grateful that England is an island! I hope your mom's family stays safe and your husband gets home without issues. What is the latest on people returning from Italy?


----------



## morgan98

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> The situation is changing so quickly that's one of the anxiety provoking things about it. When we left on Monday there were relatively few cases here (maybe 30ish?). But the rate has really accelerated since then. Believe me, I've thought a few times about being grateful that England is an island! I hope your mom's family stays safe and your husband gets home without issues. What is the latest on people returning from Italy?



Well, a few nights ago I read on the US Embassy website that all people leaving Italy for the US will be screened for fever >99.5 degrees.  If you have a fever, basically you must follow the instructions of the Italian authorities (luckily my husband speaks Italian and has dual Italian citizenship, so maybe that is a benefit if it comes down to that?) They can also be screened during the flight and will be screened again upon landing.  We live in Atlanta, so if for some reason he had a fever once he got here, I would be worried, but at least he would be home.  For the record, my husband feels fine is in good health, etc. but he says he is becoming paranoid himself.  We are very happy that he has a nice sized apartment he has been staying in - so no hotel exposure, etc and he is a good cook, so he has in general been having one meal one a day and cooking the other meal.  He has also been trying to practice social distancing.

One thing I read talked about self monitoring upon return from Italy and immediate quarantine should you have symptoms.  We have a good sized house and I already have the downstairs (with kitchenette) ready for him as I am going to limit my exposure to him when he returns.  However, I am going to pick him up at the airport.  Better I am with him that some random UBER driver.  My work will let me work from home if needed.

ETA:  I just read an Italian news article that Italy is locking down entire provinces in the North, except for emergency access.  This just happened probably due to the really high new number of cases in the past couple of days.  The provinces that I saw listed in the article where all ones that we had planned to visit, which is surreal.  My mom's province of Vicenza is not on the list (she was born not too far from the town of Asiago - if anyone is familiar with the cheese )


----------



## lovetotravel

morgan98 said:


> All of this to say, I believe travel is stressful right now.  In addition, places like France, Spain and the UK are reporting more and more cases.  *Just seem strange that Italy is a Level 3 and some of these other countries are not.  The virus does not know borders and Europe is relatively small.  France and Austria are much closer to the impacted regions of Italy than Southern Italy is.  *I would not be surprised if there are restrictions to more countries to as the testing continues to increase and more cases are found.


Ok this is a really smart comment! I'm not a geography or math expert, but does the size of Europe and the number of cases fit in the size of China or even smaller S Korea?? IF yes, then the whole continent should be a CDC 3?


----------



## disneyholic family

lovetotravel said:


> Ok this is a really smart comment! I'm not a geography or math expert, but does the size of Europe and the number of cases fit in the size of China or even smaller S Korea?? IF yes, then the whole continent should be a CDC 3?



europe's not that small, but what's important is the rate of increase.  France, Germany, Spain, even the UK are all jumping fast now. 
.


----------



## sayhello

lovetotravel said:


> There are 2 travel advisories. One is a health advisory that's issued by the CDC, and another travel advisory that's issued by the US Dept of State, which includes other threats such as health, terrorism, etc. And if you research the other countries listed, you will find they are a 2 and for what reason.
> https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories.html/
> I register all my trips with the US Dept of State and they send me notification and updates for the countries I am visiting. You can register here:
> https://step.state.gov


I looked at the US Dept of State site, and all the other countries that Thomson lists are level 2 due to terrorism, and have been that way since late spring/early summer 2019.  None of them have Travel Advisories due to COVID-19.

Sayhello


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

morgan98 said:


> Well, a few nights ago I read on the US Embassy website that all people leaving Italy for the US will be screened for fever >99.5 degrees.  If you have a fever, basically you must follow the instructions of the Italian authorities (luckily my husband speaks Italian and has dual Italian citizenship, so maybe that is a benefit if it comes down to that?) They can also be screened during the flight and will be screened again upon landing.  We live in Atlanta, so if for some reason he had a fever once he got here, I would be worried, but at least he would be home.  For the record, my husband feels fine is in good health, etc. but he says he is becoming paranoid himself.  We are very happy that he has a nice sized apartment he has been staying in - so no hotel exposure, etc and he is a good cook, so he has in general been having one meal one a day and cooking the other meal.  He has also been trying to practice social distancing.
> 
> One thing I read talked about self monitoring upon return from Italy and immediate quarantine should you have symptoms.  We have a good sized house and I already have the downstairs (with kitchenette) ready for him as I am going to limit my exposure to him when he returns.  However, I am going to pick him up at the airport.  Better I am with him that some random UBER driver.  My work will let me work from home if needed.
> 
> ETA:  I just read an Italian news article that Italy is locking down entire provinces in the North, except for emergency access.  This just happened probably due to the really high new number of cases in the past couple of days.  The provinces that I saw listed in the article where all ones that we had planned to visit, which is surreal.  My mom's province of Vicenza is not on the list (she was born not too far from the town of Asiago - if anyone is familiar with the cheese )


Thanks for the update. I can understand his paranoia. That's how I feel. I found myself getting irrationally angry when I saw a waitress tonight unconsciously wipe her nose with the back of her hand, and then pick up a glass to take to a table. It's something I probably wouldn't have noticed a few weeks ago. That's what this thing is doing. It's worse when there is more at stake (like being away from home). We have been eating out quite a bit, and I'm definitely conscious of it. Super scary about the lock down. I hope everyone will stay safe, and I'm glad to hear your mom's province is not on the list. I will cross my fingers your husband stays nice and healthy!


----------



## mmutt

ABD Italy: Amalfi Coast and Tuscany (May 31) has been cancelled.
ABD to refund monies but United Airlines is charging fees to cancel our flights.


----------



## disneyholic family

mmutt said:


> ABD Italy: Amalfi Coast and Tuscany (May 31) has been cancelled.
> ABD to refund monies but United Airlines is charging fees to cancel our flights.



United is charging?   That's terrible. You should try to escalate that.  It's not like you're cancelling for a frivolous reason.

.


----------



## Cliffside

I am becoming more and more frustrated reading all the changes from other travel companies. We are booked on the first Danube River cruise and I am very nervous about it. We literally payed in full a week before everything seem to get a lot worse. Ironically we had just gotten off the Disney Wonder and had an amazing cruise so I had no qualms about PIF.
The fact that DCL has changed their cancellation policies and ABD has not upsets me. First I thought it was just Med cruises that go to Italy but it also applies to the repo and a Northern European itinerary. Then I thought it is just ocean cruises but it is not. Avalon and Viking River Cruises are offering no cancellation fees for 100% future travel credit. Then I just read that Amawaterways is also offering a similar policy. Which makes me even more angry since we are on their ships. ABD really should do something. They are really behind in their customer service. I was so looking forward to doing my first ABD after 16 Disney cruises. If they do not offer something I will not book another one in the future.


----------



## lovetotravel

Tauck and Delta seem like the better tour company and airline so far.


----------



## Eastridge

Theta said:


> Yes, @disneyholic family,  ABD Japan May 17th and May 30th departures cancelled.



Wow, thanks for letting us know.  That suggests ABD is now lowering the threshold to cancel trips to CDC level 2.

I guess the question is why hasn't the CDC raised the levels on some other countries that have recently seen a sharp rise in the number of confirmed cases?


----------



## neurosx1983

Once ABD cancels, they’ll work with you on getting airline fees reimbursed. So that’s the nice thing about that.

@disneyholic family you’re totally right about my game plan. I’m waiting until the absolute last minute if I’m going to cancel. I checked again today and still, no one has dropped out of this trip. So that either means I am the one that’s paranoid or everyone else is doing the same thing as me and thinking about canceling but haven’t pulled the trigger yet.


----------



## lovetotravel

neurosx1983 said:


> Once ABD cancels, they’ll work with you on getting airline fees reimbursed. So that’s the nice thing about that.
> 
> @disneyholic family you’re totally right about my game plan. I’m waiting until the absolute last minute if I’m going to cancel. I checked again today and still, no one has dropped out of this trip. So that either means I am the one that’s paranoid or everyone else is doing the same thing as me and thinking about canceling but haven’t pulled the trigger yet.


I’m going to have to rethink my wait and see strategy for my upcoming 2 summer ABDs. I’m so stressed out for you now that France has near 1000 cases and I’m not the one going.


----------



## disneyholic family

lovetotravel said:


> I’m going to have to rethink my wait and see strategy for my upcoming 2 summer ABDs. I’m so stressed out for you now that France has near 1000 cases and I’m not the one going.


OMG - when you wrote almost 1000 i took issue with that so went straight to the Hopkins dashboard and i can't believe it - you're right.
France is up to 949.  That's a huge jump in one day.  What was it yesterday?  749?  something like that. 
i'm like you, i'm stressing out on Neurosx1983's behalf. 

I sure hope ABD is reading all these forums. They need to understand what their poor decisions are doing to their customers' confidence in them.

.


----------



## Candycane83

neurosx1983 said:


> Once ABD cancels, they’ll work with you on getting airline fees reimbursed. So that’s the nice thing about that.
> 
> @disneyholic family you’re totally right about my game plan. I’m waiting until the absolute last minute if I’m going to cancel. I checked again today and still, no one has dropped out of this trip. So that either means I am the one that’s paranoid or everyone else is doing the same thing as me and thinking about canceling but haven’t pulled the trigger yet.


I’m really sorry to hear ABD has not acted yet. I wonder if they are trying to hold out to to see if anyone cancels before they are forced to cancel.... it’s such poor customer service though.


----------



## disneyholic family

Candycane83 said:


> I’m really sorry to hear ABD has not acted yet. I wonder if they are trying to hold out to to see if anyone cancels before they are forced to cancel.... it’s such poor customer service though.



but they must be getting concerned phone calls from participants.
i find it hard to believe that Neurosx1983 is the only concerned person on the tour
so even if no one has cancelled, they know that there are people who are upset..
.


----------



## neurosx1983

Candycane83 said:


> I’m really sorry to hear ABD has not acted yet. I wonder if they are trying to hold out to to see if anyone cancels before they are forced to cancel.... it’s such poor customer service though.



You’ve got a neurosurgeon here that’s freaking out and my wife who is a family practitioner freaking out but everyone at ABD is as calm as can be...how ironic.

I appreciate everyone’s support. I truly hope ABD cancels so guests aren’t ‘forced’ to go because people don’t want to lose 25% (and that’s assuming that got insurance)
With 1000 cases I’m certainly going to cancel but I’m holding out...


----------



## JandT'smom

neurosx1983 said:


> You’ve got a neurosurgeon here that’s freaking out and my wife who is a family practitioner freaking out but everyone at ABD is as calm as can be...how ironic.
> 
> I appreciate everyone’s support. I truly hope ABD cancels so guests aren’t ‘forced’ to go because people don’t want to lose 25% (and that’s assuming that got insurance)
> With 1000 cases I’m certainly going to cancel but I’m holding out...


I am on the England France leaving April 27th if ABD does not cancel we will, my husband is only 9 months out of Chemo. Super sad as this was our celebration of remission trip.


----------



## neurosx1983

JandT'smom said:


> I am on the England France leaving April 27th if ABD does not cancel we will, my husband is only 9 months out of Chemo. Super sad as this was our celebration of remission trip.



i’m so sorry to hear that. This was to be our 10th anniversary trip as well. I had so many things planned out like a dinner on the Eiffel tower etc. and a Harry Potter tour for our son


----------



## morgan98

mmutt said:


> ABD Italy: Amalfi Coast and Tuscany (May 31) has been cancelled.
> ABD to refund monies but United Airlines is charging fees to cancel our flights.



I am not telling you to do, but having had to recently cancel for a flight on March 12th, I would wait before cancelling airfare.  Italy is in a final vote to quarantine the whole region of Lombardy and 11 additional provinces through April 3rd - only emergency movement in and out.  The situation in Italy (I think according to relatives and people we know there) is not ending any time soon.  I have an idea airlines will need to extend their cancellation policies for Italy.

For example, at first Delta on said travel through March 3rd could be cancelled, then March 15, then....you get the idea. I would wait as there is really no benefit to cancelling today.


----------



## sayhello

neurosx1983 said:


> You’ve got a neurosurgeon here that’s freaking out and my wife who is a family practitioner freaking out but everyone at ABD is as calm as can be...how ironic.
> 
> I appreciate everyone’s support. I truly hope ABD cancels so guests aren’t ‘forced’ to go because people don’t want to lose 25% (*and that’s assuming that got insurance*)
> With 1000 cases I’m certainly going to cancel but I’m holding out...


That's only for people who got their travel insurance through ABD or splurged on the pricey "Cancel for any Reason" coverage on their outside trip insurance.  Most of us who just purchased "regular" trip insurance from an outside company are tough out of luck, and get 0% back if we cancel on our own.

Sayhello


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

I spoke to BA today and they are allowing cancellations on any flights booked on points with a 35£ fee. Sadly they won't refund the amount I paid to pre-book our seats, so instead of cancelling I'm waiting to see if they change their policy as the virus spreads; if they amend their policy then I will get the funds I paid for our seats returned. 

I hope that Quark will allow dd and I to move our Arctic cruise to next year -- there's just too much uncertainty (about the virus) to continue to book a trip to Europe at this time. I'm hoping that Scott Dunn (the company that I used to book the land portion of our trip) will allow us to move our deposit to a Canadian Rockies trip or even refund our deposit.

I hope ABD changes their policy and soon. I don't think it's fair that they are making those booked wait until so close to their upcoming spring break trips to pull the plug. This prevents people from making other plans and causes a great deal of stress. Not cool ABD, not cool.


----------



## Woodview

Europeans   travelling  to  USA           are now     cancelling    their bookings     

 Airlines  are cutting back     on flights   to all  USA  airports .

If this gets worse                       will    Disney   & Universal   be  forced  to close  their   Theme parks


----------



## Sakura1017

neurosx1983 said:


> Once ABD cancels, they’ll work with you on getting airline fees reimbursed. So that’s the nice thing about that.
> 
> @disneyholic family you’re totally right about my game plan. I’m waiting until the absolute last minute if I’m going to cancel. I checked again today and still, no one has dropped out of this trip. So that either means I am the one that’s paranoid or everyone else is doing the same thing as me and thinking about canceling but haven’t pulled the trigger yet.


Will they help you with airlines if you didnt book directly with them?


----------



## neurosx1983

Sakura1017 said:


> Will they help you with airlines if you didnt book directly with them?


Yes. If they cancel, they not only refund you everything but they work with you on getting any cancellation fees back with any airlines even if you didn’t book through ABD directly.

@sayhello you’re absolutely correct about the insurance policy. It is very pricey. I always get it because of my profession. Not knowing if some kind of emergency might pop up at the last second. But you’re right. Maybe most of the other people on the trip don’t have any kind of insurance and they would lose everything if they canceled right now.

so I’m in a waiting game with ABD to see if they will cancel within the next 72 hours. It’s insane that it’s come down to this. I’m incredibly upset about it. I used to think that Disney valued safety of their guests more than anything else. Why else would they be waiting until just this year told relaunch Egypt when other companies like Abercrombie have been going there for years now. I thought it was because they valued our safety and wanted to make sure there was not even an iota of risk. But with what’s going on now in France with 1000 cases, and ABD wanting to push forward, without even blinking an eye and giving some people an option of canceling or moving their trip, it’s left a very bad taste in my mouth. I can’t even really come up with any back up plan trips because I’m waiting on them to cancel this trip right now. One thing is for sure though, I’m definitely not going to the Jersey shore! No offense to anyone that likes it there…lol

I’ll be probably going to Hawaii. Not to make that sound like it’s anything less. And at this point if I catch corona at least I’ll be sipping on a mai tai when I do it. At least I know that there is less risk catching it there than in Central Europe where all hell is breaking loose.


----------



## Networth

neurosx1983 said:


> Yes. If they cancel, they not only refund you everything but they work with you on getting any cancellation fees back with any airlines even if you didn’t book through ABD directly.
> 
> @sayhello you’re absolutely correct about the insurance policy. It is very pricey. I always get it because of my profession. Not knowing if some kind of emergency might pop up at the last second. But you’re right. Maybe most of the other people on the trip don’t have any kind of insurance and they would lose everything if they canceled right now.
> 
> so I’m in a waiting game with ABD to see if they will cancel within the next 72 hours. It’s insane that it’s come down to this. I’m incredibly upset about it. I used to think that Disney valued safety of their guests more than anything else. Why else would they be waiting until just this year told relaunch Egypt when other companies like Abercrombie have been going there for years now. I thought it was because they valued our safety and wanted to make sure there was not even an iota of risk. But with what’s going on now in France with 1000 cases, and ABD wanting to push forward, without even blinking an eye and giving some people an option of canceling or moving their trip, it’s left a very bad taste in my mouth. I can’t even really come up with any back up plan trips because I’m waiting on them to cancel this trip right now. One thing is for sure though, I’m definitely not going to the Jersey shore! No offense to anyone that likes it there…lol
> 
> I’ll be probably going to Hawaii. Not to make that sound like it’s anything less. And at this point if I catch corona at least I’ll be sipping on a mai tai when I do it. At least I know that there is less risk catching it there than in Central Europe where all hell is breaking loose.



If you do end up doing the back up plan to Hawaii be sure to spend some time at Aulani. We just were there in January, and while it wasn’t Europe it was fantastic! I hope ABD gives you the chance to back out of your trip. While I still intend to go on ours in a few months I do think they should be making it much easier to cancel or move trips for those that rather not go at this point.


----------



## disneyholic family

neurosx1983 said:


> Yes. If they cancel, they not only refund you everything but they work with you on getting any cancellation fees back with any airlines even if you didn’t book through ABD directly.
> 
> @sayhello you’re absolutely correct about the insurance policy. It is very pricey. I always get it because of my profession. Not knowing if some kind of emergency might pop up at the last second. But you’re right. Maybe most of the other people on the trip don’t have any kind of insurance and they would lose everything if they canceled right now.
> 
> so I’m in a waiting game with ABD to see if they will cancel within the next 72 hours. It’s insane that it’s come down to this. I’m incredibly upset about it. I used to think that Disney valued safety of their guests more than anything else. Why else would they be waiting until just this year told relaunch Egypt when other companies like Abercrombie have been going there for years now. I thought it was because they valued our safety and wanted to make sure there was not even an iota of risk. But with what’s going on now in France with 1000 cases, and ABD wanting to push forward, without even blinking an eye and giving some people an option of canceling or moving their trip, it’s left a very bad taste in my mouth. I can’t even really come up with any back up plan trips because I’m waiting on them to cancel this trip right now. One thing is for sure though, I’m definitely not going to the Jersey shore! No offense to anyone that likes it there…lol
> 
> I’ll be probably going to Hawaii. Not to make that sound like it’s anything less. And at this point if I catch corona at least I’ll be sipping on a mai tai when I do it. At least I know that there is less risk catching it there than in Central Europe where all hell is breaking loose.



hawaii sounds good to me...
four seasons maui sounds better, though i haven't been there for years, so haven't a clue if it's still nice as  it was..
people tell me Four Seasons Resort Hualalai  is to die for....not good in the corona context.....LOL...

but not to make light, i'm really sorry this happened and that ABD has been so inflexible.

do they not understand that people like me, who are still a couple of months from PIF are going to cancel as a result of this?

.


----------



## pistonfan32

Northern Italy is now on lockdown until April 3rd. This includes the areas around Milan and Venice.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-51787238
We are not scheduled for ABD Northern Italy and Switzerland until July 31st but that really does not seem very far away. In the U.S. as it stands right now, I am no way scared of COVID-19. I am carrying on life as usual including going to the Detroit Pistons game last night with 17,000 of my closest friends. But I am very cognizant and aware of this. And I am very aware that Italy is not a place that I want to go to this summer. PIF due 4/2/20.

We have a lot of money tied up with Delta flights. Many people think what Delta has offered is so wonderful. For flights to Italy scheduled through 5/31/20, you can cancel and use within one year from original ticket issue date. So that's November 2020 that I would have to travel if Delta eventually extends the time from 5/31/20 to 7/31/20. I confirmed this with Delta this morning on the phone. That is not reasonable for those of us that purchased our tickets far in advance. It actually feels like a penalty for doing so. My trip was a family trip and going somewhere in the fall is not reasonable. They said I could speak with customer care if it comes to that and they may be flexible.




I have also thought about Hawaii this summer but who knows where this virus is going to spread. Nowhere in the world is immune.

I understand that my trip is 4 1/2 months away but I am just thinking ahead. A lot can change by July but I think this is getting worse before it gets better.

And ABD, get it together. We deserve much better than what you are telling us. Heck your webpage should at least have some communication like every airline and cruise line does. Very baffling and disappointing.


----------



## disneyholic family

pistonfan32 said:


> Northern Italy is now on lockdown until April 3rd. This includes the areas around Milan and Venice.
> 
> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-51787238
> We are not scheduled for ABD Northern Italy and Switzerland until July 31st but that really does not seem very far away. In the U.S. as it stands right now, I am no way scared of COVID-19. I am carrying on life as usual including going to the Detroit Pistons game last night with 17,000 of my closest friends. But I am very cognizant and aware of this. And I am very aware that Italy is not a place that I want to go to this summer. PIF due 4/2/20.
> 
> We have a lot of money tied up with Delta flights. Many people think what Delta has offered is so wonderful. For flights to Italy scheduled through 5/31/20, you can cancel and use within one year from original ticket issue date. So that's November 2020 that I would have to travel if Delta eventually extends the time from 5/31/20 to 7/31/20. I confirmed this with Delta this morning on the phone. That is not reasonable for those of us that purchased our tickets far in advance. It actually feels like a penalty for doing so. My trip was a family trip and going somewhere in the fall is not reasonable. They said I could speak with customer care if it comes to that and they may be flexible.
> 
> View attachment 479450
> 
> 
> I have also thought about Hawaii this summer but who knows where this virus is going to spread. Nowhere in the world is immune.
> 
> I understand that my trip is 4 1/2 months away but I am just thinking ahead. A lot can change by July but I think this is getting worse before it gets better.
> 
> And ABD, get it together. We deserve much better than what you are telling us. Heck your webpage should at least have some communication like every airline and cruise line does. Very baffling and disappointing.



i agree with you
unrelated.....haven't been to a pistons game since they left the palace....
as for corona, i was supposed to be in detroit for my sister's funeral on thursday, but couldn't take the risk..
so i had to watch from afar (the wonders of internet, even funerals can be 'live' streamed...)

we're on lockdown here - 
the rumor is our health ministry is going to cut us off from the US as well, since corona has taken off in parts of the US (especially new york and california from where we get lots of tourists).
That will be kind of monumental if the health ministry pulls the trigger on that.

.


----------



## morgan98

This morning's update is I once again moved my husband's flight home from Italy.  He is now flying from Rome to JFK to Atlanta at 9:30 am tomorrow.  Even is the areas not under official lock down, all museums are closed and he said Florence is very different this morning.  I have been trying to keep a level head about all of this, and like I said we go to Italy often, but I am a major stress case at this point.  I will breathe the biggest sigh of relief when he is here at home.

ETA:  He feels fine at this point, but I a becoming paranoid.  I feel like we are almost racing against the clock.  I probably need to stop reading the news because they are so many cases of people in countries everything that "returned from a recent trip to Italy."  I really do believe this is much more widespread than any of us really know.


----------



## Toolulu22

morgan98 said:


> This morning's update is I once again moved my husband's flight home from Italy.  He is now flying from Rome to JFK to Atlanta at 9:30 am tomorrow.  Even is the areas not under official lock down, all museums are closed and he said Florence is very different this morning.  I have been trying to keep a level head about all of this, and like I said we go to Italy often, but I am a major stress case at this point.  I will breathe the biggest sigh of relief when he is here at home.
> 
> ETA:  He feels fine at this point, but I a becoming paranoid.  I feel like we are almost racing against the clock.  I probably need to stop reading the news because they are so many cases of people in countries everything that "returned from a recent trip to Italy."  I really do believe this is much more widespread than any of us really know.


I, too, feel as though the situation here is worse than what is being reported.  Came here to see what was up with you since last time I’d heard from you, you’d mentioned you were still flying to Italy.  Glad you didn’t go and get stuck in the quarantine there and safe travels to your husband.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

pistonfan32 said:


> Northern Italy is now on lockdown until April 3rd. This includes the areas around Milan and Venice.
> 
> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-51787238
> We are not scheduled for ABD Northern Italy and Switzerland until July 31st but that really does not seem very far away. In the U.S. as it stands right now, I am no way scared of COVID-19. I am carrying on life as usual including going to the Detroit Pistons game last night with 17,000 of my closest friends. But I am very cognizant and aware of this. And I am very aware that Italy is not a place that I want to go to this summer. PIF due 4/2/20.
> 
> We have a lot of money tied up with Delta flights. Many people think what Delta has offered is so wonderful. For flights to Italy scheduled through 5/31/20, you can cancel and use within one year from original ticket issue date. So that's November 2020 that I would have to travel if Delta eventually extends the time from 5/31/20 to 7/31/20. I confirmed this with Delta this morning on the phone. That is not reasonable for those of us that purchased our tickets far in advance. It actually feels like a penalty for doing so. My trip was a family trip and going somewhere in the fall is not reasonable. They said I could speak with customer care if it comes to that and they may be flexible.
> 
> View attachment 479450
> 
> 
> I have also thought about Hawaii this summer but who knows where this virus is going to spread. Nowhere in the world is immune.
> 
> I understand that my trip is 4 1/2 months away but I am just thinking ahead. A lot can change by July but I think this is getting worse before it gets better.
> 
> And ABD, get it together. We deserve much better than what you are telling us. Heck your webpage should at least have some communication like every airline and cruise line does. Very baffling and disappointing.



I'm with you.  We now have a Delta credit but are under the gun to use it by mid-December.  If all blows over, we can use it for the Rhine ABD this summer.  If not . . . ?  At this point, with a credit I have with the Mexico resort we needed to cancel, I am looking at going there over Thanksgiving week which isn't ideal.  We are going to have to come to a point where we decide if we use this credit just to use it at a time that isn't ideal or we just let it go to the tune of multiple thousands of $$$.  The only reason we cancelled Mexico is because DS12's school threatened to keep any students who traveled internationally over break home for two weeks.  Ironically, we live 10 miles from Westchester County, NY, so I'm not sure why going to Mexico was worse than just staying where we are . . . . but, at the end of the day, I didn't want us stuck in Mexico if the tide turned.  I would rather be stuck in the U.S. 

We are heading out to Brooklyn in about an hour to have lunch and go to the Nets game.  We are taking all, IMHO, reasonable precautions - washing hands, bringing hand sanitizer - but until the NBA bans fans, the gov't locks us down or we are put in some kind of quarantine, we are going to live our lives.


----------



## Donalyn

The issue in the US is that we haven't tested very many people.  As such, we have no idea the true extent.  And it is definitely much broader than the current numbers reflect (and those numbers have nearly doubled in the last 40+ hours or so, mind you).  (My prediction is that every US state will have at least 1 reported case by this coming Friday.)  Remember, that for a number of people, they have no idea where they contracted the virus.  As such, there have to be random people out there who have been exposed and are spreading the virus without knowing it.  Think about the nursing homes/care facilities - three in WA state have issues and to my knowledge, no one knows how it started in those facilities. 

As for travel changes:  I had a client cancel a trip to Chicago last week.  My work cancelled a retreat in Florida for this coming weekend.  I still have another work trip to Chicago this coming Tuesday, at this point.  But work has been encouraging us not to travel, if at all possible.  And if we go international, we are required to report it to someone at the office.

Our spring break was to Philly at the end of the month.  Pretty much would eat all of the costs if we cancel.  We are still discussing what do do.  A lot can change in 3 weeks at this point, I think.


----------



## lovetotravel

Donalyn said:


> Our spring break was to Philly at the end of the month.  Pretty much would eat all of the costs if we cancel.  We are still discussing what do do.  A lot can change in 3 weeks at this point, I think.


Oh yes a lot can change in 3 weeks. 2 weeks ago, I panicked and cancelled our Netherlands spring break trip when there was only 2 cases and today there is 265. 2 weeks ago, Italy had 20 cases, today 16-17million people are on lockdown with  5883 cases.


----------



## disneyholic family

morgan98 said:


> This morning's update is I once again moved my husband's flight home from Italy.  He is now flying from Rome to JFK to Atlanta at 9:30 am tomorrow.  Even is the areas not under official lock down, all museums are closed and he said Florence is very different this morning.  I have been trying to keep a level head about all of this, and like I said we go to Italy often, but I am a major stress case at this point.  I will breathe the biggest sigh of relief when he is here at home.
> 
> ETA:  He feels fine at this point, but I a becoming paranoid.  I feel like we are almost racing against the clock.  I probably need to stop reading the news because they are so many cases of people in countries everything that "returned from a recent trip to Italy."  I really do believe this is much more widespread than any of us really know.



the lockdown in northern italy was all over the news here because a number of israelis who are on relocation in Milano and Como and points north, threw their kids in their cars this morning and raced for  the airport in Milano to catch the very last flight to tel aviv (easyjet) before the door slams shut.
Most of them have been living in self-imposed quarantine and said the situation was getting scarier by the day.
Overnight the number of confirmed cases in Italy jumped by 1,500 (to 7,375) and deaths also went up by 133 to 366.
One of my daughter's closest friends is on relocation in Milano. My daughter has been haranguing her for a month to pack up the kids and come home.  At the outset, she pooh poohed it, but they were one of the families racing for the airport this morning to catch that flight.
And now they'll go into 14 days of quarantine here, but at least they're home and if they get sick, they'll be in familiar medical surroundings. No one wants to be sick at all, but if you do get sick, you certainly don't want to be in a foreign country, far from home.
.


----------



## disneyholic family

neurosx1983 said:


> Yes. If they cancel, they not only refund you everything but they work with you on getting any cancellation fees back with any airlines even if you didn’t book through ABD directly.
> 
> @sayhello you’re absolutely correct about the insurance policy. It is very pricey. I always get it because of my profession. Not knowing if some kind of emergency might pop up at the last second. But you’re right. Maybe most of the other people on the trip don’t have any kind of insurance and they would lose everything if they canceled right now.
> 
> so I’m in a waiting game with ABD to see if they will cancel within the next 72 hours. It’s insane that it’s come down to this. I’m incredibly upset about it. I used to think that Disney valued safety of their guests more than anything else. Why else would they be waiting until just this year told relaunch Egypt when other companies like Abercrombie have been going there for years now. I thought it was because they valued our safety and wanted to make sure there was not even an iota of risk. But with what’s going on now in France with 1000 cases, and ABD wanting to push forward, without even blinking an eye and giving some people an option of canceling or moving their trip, it’s left a very bad taste in my mouth. I can’t even really come up with any back up plan trips because I’m waiting on them to cancel this trip right now. One thing is for sure though, I’m definitely not going to the Jersey shore! No offense to anyone that likes it there…lol
> 
> I’ll be probably going to Hawaii. Not to make that sound like it’s anything less. And at this point if I catch corona at least I’ll be sipping on a mai tai when I do it. At least I know that there is less risk catching it there than in Central Europe where all hell is breaking loose.



here's a very clear website - it shows the 24 hour increases in new cases - for example from yesterday to today the number of confirmed cases in italy jumped by 1,492 to 7,375 (putting them into second place behind china)..
for France, the one day jump from yesterday to today was 177 new cases, taking france up to 1,126 confirmed cases

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
do the people at ABD not know how to read a simple table?
.


----------



## neurosx1983

Frances number is very close to Japan’s at this point. And Japan is CDC level two… Wonder why CDC hasn’t given any kind of restriction on France? I tried to ask for a supervisor yesterday when I called ABD and was told it would be a two hour wait. No one ever called me back.


----------



## Travelling135

I’m really unhappy with the way ABD has handled this situation and with their poor communication. I can’t believe that they haven’t cancelled England/France for next week. We’ve been very loyal ABD customers, but I’ve lost some faith in the brand. This will be the first May that we won’t rush to book an ABD.

I’m very grateful that we decided to skip our PIF two weeks ago for Scotland. We worried we might be overreacting, but my husband is a physician and felt it was too risky. Luckily, our airline (Air Canada) gave us a full refund so we’re not stuck trying to use a credit with all this uncertainty.


----------



## disneyholic family

neurosx1983 said:


> Frances number is very close to Japan’s at this point. And Japan is CDC level two… Wonder why CDC hasn’t given any kind of restriction on France? I tried to ask for a supervisor yesterday when I called ABD and was told it would be a two hour wait. No one ever called me back.



France is DOUBLE japan.
Japan is 502 cases (up 41 from yesterday)
France is 1,126 (up 177 since yesterday)

.


----------



## xiphoid76

disneyholic family said:


> France is DOUBLE japan.
> Japan is 502 cases (up 41 from yesterday)
> France is 1,126 (up 177 since yesterday)
> 
> .


I think the CDC will stop increasing the risk for various countries.  The number of cases is going to sky rocket in all nations across the globe once testing begins in earnest.  No need to keep increasing the risk for each country individually.  Just a general caution about travel will be more likely.  Just as safe to go to England as Italy as China as West Des Moines, Iowa at this point.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

I have been e-mailing with the Waldorf Astoria in the Maldives (where we had a scheduled stay from April 4 - 11) and they agreed to refund our prepayment ($600.00) and re-deposit the points and free night certificate we used to book our stay, without penalty. Even though we are past the cancellation deadline. They said they completely understand the situation and are happy to allow me to cancel without penalty. 

I feel awful for everyone that has an ABD booked in the coming days that aren't being offered full refunds if they wish to cancel. It's not as though cancelling a few ABD trips is going to cost Disney's bottom line. It's just a drop in the proverbial bucket for them. Shame on ABD.


----------



## lovetotravel

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I feel awful for everyone that has an ABD booked in the coming days that aren't being offered full refunds if they wish to cancel. It's not as though cancelling a few ABD trips is going to cost Disney's bottom line. It's just a drop in the proverbial bucket for them. Shame on ABD.


US Dept of State issues advisory for cruise ships. This should apply to ABD Cruises. And any trip with a cruise such as Egypt!
I feel like going on my ABDs this summer is an 'extreme' travel adventure.

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/international-travel/before-you-go/travelers-with-special-considerations/cruise-ship-passengers.html?fbclid=IwAR23mRlu4-382HLuSM8i0KWQBSaZ4heDniggmxR3kBR6e2EgWiKr6B0EseM


----------



## neurosx1983

xiphoid76 said:


> I think the CDC will stop increasing the risk for various countries.  The number of cases is going to sky rocket in all nations across the globe once testing begins in earnest.  No need to keep increasing the risk for each country individually.  Just a general caution about travel will be more likely.  Just as safe to go to England as Italy as China as West Des Moines, Iowa at this point.



I get your general point but, no, its not just as dangerous to travel to Des Moines as it is Paris. 
Central europe in particular is ablaze with cases. Its definitely safer to stay in the US, IMO.
Part of the reason Hawaii is my backup plan and not, say, Aruba (even though its closer), is that I don't want to leave the country and risk some kind of quarantine. 



*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I have been e-mailing with the Waldorf Astoria in the Maldives (where we had a scheduled stay from April 4 - 11) and they agreed to refund our prepayment ($600.00) and re-deposit the points and free night certificate we used to book our stay, without penalty. Even though we are past the cancellation deadline. They said they completely understand the situation and are happy to allow me to cancel without penalty.
> 
> I feel awful for everyone that has an ABD booked in the coming days that aren't being offered full refunds if they wish to cancel. It's not as though cancelling a few ABD trips is going to cost Disney's bottom line. It's just a drop in the proverbial bucket for them. Shame on ABD.



Correct. Its unbelievable. Even worse that they're not even returning phone calls. I might start looking at other vendors like A&K in the future. I'm holding out that they're going to do the right thing and not take a GROUP of people around in a country with over 1100 cases. I'm waiting until Wednesday (the day before we leave) to cancel just in case they cancel first.  Imagine, today France has 1100 cases. What's it going to be like on the 16th when we're scheduled to arrive there from London if we stayed with ABD?

My wife and I have decided on Hawaii. Looking at FS Hualalai @disneyholic family you're right it looks incredible!  This is our 10th anniversary and there's no point being stressed and all of us having a freakout if someone coughs at the Louvre. Or worse, exposing our son to god knows what.

We're cutting our losses and not going. We are not going to be as reactionary as some people who aren't even leaving their house. We're still getting on a plane for a long flight. Its just that at the end of that flight we'll be on an island and not in a place like France where I wouldn't even be able to guarantee I'd be able to fly home from in a couple weeks.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

EDITED: Oops ...  somehow quoted wrong post. But I'm really happy you guys are going to Hawaii and happy anniversary! I still can't believe ABD hasn't cancelled this trip--it really is unconscionable. Are they really hurting that badly for $$$?


----------



## WeLoveABD

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> EDITED: Oops ...  somehow quoted wrong post. But I'm really happy you guys are going to Hawaii and happy anniversary! I still can't believe ABD hasn't cancelled this trip--it really is unconscionable. Are they really hurting that badly for $$$?


Well, I haven't weighed in and wasn't going to-- but if I had an "unlike" option I'd post it! I have no doubt that Disney-- and Tauck, others-- are trying to work through this in the best interests of their clients. They have every incentive to do so. It must be awfully hard to cut through the panic and hysteria and assess this situation carefully and correctly. We are booked on a trip to Jordan and Eygpt in late April with Tauck-- it is still going, as of this posting, and I trust they will not pull the plug unless safety actually requires it.


----------



## disneyholic family

WeLoveABD said:


> Well, I haven't weighed in and wasn't going to-- but if I had an "unlike" option I'd post it! I have no doubt that Disney-- and Tauck, others-- are trying to work through this in the best interests of their clients. They have every incentive to do so. It must be awfully hard to cut through the panic and hysteria and assess this situation carefully and correctly. We are booked on a trip to Jordan and Eygpt in late April with Tauck-- it is still going, as of this posting, and I trust they will not pull the plug unless safety actually requires it.



so you think a neurosurgeon and family physician are hysterical?  
and you can add to that my many friends, all respected physicians, who believe that the authorities haven't done nearly enough in terms of quarantines and travel bans.... but i guess they're hysterical too...
.


----------



## tink1970

disneyholic family said:


> so you think a neurosurgeon and family physician are hysterical?
> and you can add to that my many friends, all respected physicians, who believe that the authorities haven't done nearly enough in terms of quarantines and travel bans.... but i guess they're hysterical too...
> .




I think most physicians would agree that you don’t know what you don’t know. Right now we are unaware of so many variables that it’s challenging to make truly informed decisions.


----------



## upbeatred

neurosx1983 said:


> I get your general point but, no, its not just as dangerous to travel to Des Moines as it is Paris.
> Central europe in particular is ablaze with cases. Its definitely safer to stay in the US, IMO.
> Part of the reason Hawaii is my backup plan and not, say, Aruba (even though its closer), is that I don't want to leave the country and risk some kind of quarantine.
> 
> 
> 
> Correct. Its unbelievable. Even worse that they're not even returning phone calls. I might start looking at other vendors like A&K in the future. I'm holding out that they're going to do the right thing and not take a GROUP of people around in a country with over 1100 cases. I'm waiting until Wednesday (the day before we leave) to cancel just in case they cancel first.  Imagine, today France has 1100 cases. What's it going to be like on the 16th when we're scheduled to arrive there from London if we stayed with ABD?
> 
> My wife and I have decided on Hawaii. Looking at FS Hualalai @disneyholic family you're right it looks incredible!  This is our 10th anniversary and there's no point being stressed and all of us having a freakout if someone coughs at the Louvre. Or worse, exposing our son to god knows what.
> 
> We're cutting our losses and not going. We are not going to be as reactionary as some people who aren't even leaving their house. We're still getting on a plane for a long flight. Its just that at the end of that flight we'll be on an island and not in a place like France where I wouldn't even be able to guarantee I'd be able to fly home from in a couple weeks.


Well don't use Abercombie.  I have an Egypt and Jordan trip this Saturday March 13 and they have been absolutely unhelpful.  Won't reschedule, have sent us zero communications.  I am very unhappy with their customer service.


----------



## disneyholic family

tink1970 said:


> I think most physicians would agree that you don’t know what you don’t know. Right now we are unaware of so many variables that it’s challenging to make truly informed decisions.


as i've said, the medical authorities where i live consider the situation worrisome in the extreme for which travel bans and quarantines are the very minimum that is required to attempt to buy us time to let the medical system prepare.

Again, all you have to do is look at Italy to understand the severity of the problem.
The number of cases in Italy has exploded, completely swamping their medical system.
The numbers are quite remarkable there.
Italy is now number 2 in the world, after China.
And the day to day growth is exponential.
The number of confirmed cases went up today by a staggering 1,492 taking their total confirmed cases to 7,375.
And the deaths are climbing faster as well, increasing today by 133 for a total of 366.
In addition, Italy currently has a huge number of critical cases (650). Their system cannot handle it, nor could any system in any country.
There is reason to fear this disease.
In another year, it may be we'll look back and think we overreacted.
No way of knowing at this point.
.


----------



## Candycane83

neurosx1983 said:


> Frances number is very close to Japan’s at this point. And Japan is CDC level two… Wonder why CDC hasn’t given any kind of restriction on France? I tried to ask for a supervisor yesterday when I called ABD and was told it would be a two hour wait. No one ever called me back.


I was just looking at the number of cases around the world and as of right now, US cases surpass Japan now!  France is more than double Japan’s numbers!


----------



## Networth

I was at a continuing  education dinner tonight  on a subject unrelated related to the virus.  However, of course the subject of COVID-19 came up. I can say the majority of providers at the dinner felt the media has caused more panic in the general population than is necessary. Every medical professional is going to have a different opinion on the severity of the virus and the fall out. Only time will tell the outcome.


----------



## neurosx1983

WeLoveABD said:


> Well, I haven't weighed in and wasn't going to-- but if I had an "unlike" option I'd post it! I have no doubt that Disney-- and Tauck, others-- are trying to work through this in the best interests of their clients. They have every incentive to do so. It must be awfully hard to cut through the panic and hysteria and assess this situation carefully and correctly. We are booked on a trip to Jordan and Eygpt in late April with Tauck-- it is still going, as of this posting, and I trust they will not pull the plug unless safety actually requires it.



You're right...ABD is a business and they have to look out for their interests of course. And I've never suggested that they're willingly trying to put families at risk. Of course not. I can't imagine how difficult it must be for the administration of ABD to make decisions on the trips. Cancelling China and Italy is easy...the CDC and US Govt are saying "DONT GO" so its an easy call. What to do about France which is right next door, and has over a thousand cases and CDC hasn't said not to go yet? That's a tougher problem for them.  To make matters even harder for them, maybe they don't want to cancel when nothing else in Paris has really closed. Louvre, Versailles, and even DLP are all still open.  I can understand if people want to still go on this trip, and I'm sure many people will go unless they cancel. There were 32 people booked including my family.  Maybe for a lot of those people, they see this whole COVID thing as a bit of BS and want to move on with life. And maybe for some of them as @sayhello mentioned, they don't have insurance and don't want to lose everything.  I want to emphasize if there's anyone on the ABD this week seeing this board, please keep in mind that the situation might be much worse when the ABD is over on the 20th and you might have a hard time getting back home, potentially.

My problem with this trip was that I didn't want to literally walk into a region of the world where cases are going haywire. I thought it irresponsible to literally fly into the eye of a storm.  Again, not the UK, but my worry was and always has been France. I didn't want to be in a group traveling around France, going to crowded places like Louvre and Versailles, standing shoulder to shoulder with people jostling to see the mona lisa and be exposed to god knows what. Not worth it for me and my family. Also, I didn't want to be on the other side of the Atlantic and tell my colleagues at work that I'm stuck for 2 weeks. That wouldn't have gone over very well.  My wife and I even thought of a plan of going on the ABD to London and basically leaving the group when they go to France...but we decided that was kind of dumb.

My problem with ABD is their lack of communication and attitude that nothing is going on. All is proceeding as usual. Nothing to see here...move on.  I got a total of two emails from ABD and all they both said was "let us know if you've been to China or Italy in the last 2 weeks" 

And I get what you're saying about hysteria. Hysteria doesn't help any situation. My point to ABD when I said "look, I'm a physician and I'm saying it doesn't seem safe to travel to France" was not to rub it in anyone's face that I'm a doctor...but to convey to them that this is my profession and I'm saying its serious.  I think if I weren't a physician, and a physician told me that they themselves are feeling uncomfortable about traveling to a certain country, I would be a bit freaked out.  
On a side note, almost all of my colleagues at work (other physicians) have literally told me I'm nuts to even think about going to Europe this week.  That's just my experience.

Anyway, to each their own. I think one thing is clear. We are all Disney fans and we all on this board have a certain amount of affection of ABD. That's without a doubt. I'm incredibly bummed out that I'm not going on this trip this week. You guys dont know how much I had researched. Including listening to the podcasts from Pete/John/Kevin about both of their trips multiple times!  
But its' important for us to be smart and not fall into the trap of thinking Disney can do no harm. They're a business after all.  We just have to do what's right for our families.


----------



## rhinodadz

@neurosx1983 My wife and I are also on the London/Paris adventure this week. We haven't given any thought to cancelling. We are in our 50s, in reasonably good health and don't fall into any of the high risk groups for COVID-19.

I do feel that the media frenzy is overblown and that the reported death rate is likely overstated as it is probable that there are a large number of undiagnosed and unreported cases which would change that percentage. Like many things in life the decision to go on this trip is a calculated risk. For us, it's worth it based on what is known at this moment. It's clearly not for you and your family and I absolutely respect that.

I wouldn't be too harsh in criticizing ABD for what you deem to be a lack of communication. It is absolutely not in Disney's interst to have 30 or 40 folks quarantined. There is no doubt in my mind that they are frantically working on contingency plans and will wait as long as possible to pull the trigger in an effort to give us the adventure we expect. Same way the cruise line operates during hurricane season.

If you chose to cancel and travel elsewhere I wish you safe travels, otherwise I'll look forward to meeting you in a few days.


----------



## neurosx1983

rhinodadz said:


> @neurosx1983 My wife and I are also on the London/Paris adventure this week. We haven't given any thought to cancelling. We are in our 50s, in reasonably good health and don't fall into any of the high risk groups for COVID-19.
> 
> I do feel that the media frenzy is overblown and that the reported death rate is likely overstated as it is probable that there are a large number of undiagnosed and unreported cases which would change that percentage. Like many things in life the decision to go on this trip is a calculated risk. For us, it's worth it based on what is known at this moment. It's clearly not for you and your family and I absolutely respect that.
> 
> I wouldn't be too harsh in criticizing ABD for what you deem to be a lack of communication. It is absolutely not in Disney's interst to have 30 or 40 folks quarantined. There is no doubt in my mind that they are frantically working on contingency plans and will wait as long as possible to pull the trigger in an effort to give us the adventure we expect. Same way the cruise line operates during hurricane season.
> 
> If you chose to cancel and travel elsewhere I wish you safe travels, otherwise I'll look forward to meeting you in a few days.



Awesome! I'm glad I finally found another soul on this thread that was on the trip...

Well I hope you're right that its overblown. To each their own, but from my perspective using straight facts from CDC/WHO, the situation in France looks worrisome at best, dire at worst.  They just announced a few hours ago that any gatherings of 1000 people or more are banned.  My concern with France is the rate at which bad news is coming out.

Anyway, hope you and your wife enjoy this trip if it goes. I'm going to be going through the depressing slog of cancelling all of the really nice dinner reservations in London and Paris that I made 

But I've got a smile on my face when I think of that mai tai that awaits...


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

neurosx1983 said:


> You're right...ABD is a business and they have to look out for their interests of course. And I've never suggested that they're willingly trying to put families at risk. Of course not. I can't imagine how difficult it must be for the administration of ABD to make decisions on the trips. Cancelling China and Italy is easy...the CDC and US Govt are saying "DONT GO" so its an easy call. What to do about France which is right next door, and has over a thousand cases and CDC hasn't said not to go yet? That's a tougher problem for them.  To make matters even harder for them, maybe they don't want to cancel when nothing else in Paris has really closed. Louvre, Versailles, and even DLP are all still open.  I can understand if people want to still go on this trip, and I'm sure many people will go unless they cancel. There were 32 people booked including my family.  Maybe for a lot of those people, they see this whole COVID thing as a bit of BS and want to move on with life. And maybe for some of them as @sayhello mentioned, they don't have insurance and don't want to lose everything.  I want to emphasize if there's anyone on the ABD this week seeing this board, please keep in mind that the situation might be much worse when the ABD is over on the 20th and you might have a hard time getting back home, potentially.
> 
> My problem with this trip was that I didn't want to literally walk into a region of the world where cases are going haywire. I thought it irresponsible to literally fly into the eye of a storm.  Again, not the UK, but my worry was and always has been France. I didn't want to be in a group traveling around France, going to crowded places like Louvre and Versailles, standing shoulder to shoulder with people jostling to see the mona lisa and be exposed to god knows what. Not worth it for me and my family. Also, I didn't want to be on the other side of the Atlantic and tell my colleagues at work that I'm stuck for 2 weeks. That wouldn't have gone over very well.  My wife and I even thought of a plan of going on the ABD to London and basically leaving the group when they go to France...but we decided that was kind of dumb.
> 
> My problem with ABD is their lack of communication and attitude that nothing is going on. All is proceeding as usual. Nothing to see here...move on.  I got a total of two emails from ABD and all they both said was "let us know if you've been to China or Italy in the last 2 weeks"
> 
> And I get what you're saying about hysteria. Hysteria doesn't help any situation. My point to ABD when I said "look, I'm a physician and I'm saying it doesn't seem safe to travel to France" was not to rub it in anyone's face that I'm a doctor...but to convey to them that this is my profession and I'm saying its serious.  I think if I weren't a physician, and a physician told me that they themselves are feeling uncomfortable about traveling to a certain country, I would be a bit freaked out.
> On a side note, almost all of my colleagues at work (other physicians) have literally told me I'm nuts to even think about going to Europe this week.  That's just my experience.
> 
> Anyway, to each their own. I think one thing is clear. We are all Disney fans and we all on this board have a certain amount of affection of ABD. That's without a doubt. I'm incredibly bummed out that I'm not going on this trip this week. You guys dont know how much I had researched. Including listening to the podcasts from Pete/John/Kevin about both of their trips multiple times!
> But its' important for us to be smart and not fall into the trap of thinking Disney can do no harm. They're a business after all.  We just have to do what's right for our families.



I totally agree. As mentioned earlier in this thread, I have boots on the ground in the UK right now, and I'm watching the more European focused news reports. With what is happening in Italy right now, I think it's hard to argue that this is overblown. It sounds like a confusion nightmare the other night as travelers raced to get out of Dodge to avoid being locked down. 

IMO if ABD was working in its clients best interest (and not $$$), they would be allowing people to cancel if they wanted. If some travelers are still comfortable going on the trip, let them make that decision for their family. 

Even if people aren't personally concerned with exposure risk, the potential for travel disruption is big. Most of the reports I've seen are suggesting this is going to peak during Spring Break. Don't get me wrong, I think the US is way underreporting (and purposefully not testing) the number of cases and exposure risk might not be all that different in parts of Europe than it is in parts of the US. But when traveling you are at the mercy of a different government and different rules as well as getting stuck somewhere that is not home. There is only so much ABD can do. 

@morgan98 I hope your family is hanging in there and your husband's travel wasn't impacted by the shutdown.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> I totally agree. As mentioned earlier in this thread, I have boots on the ground in the UK right now, and I'm watching the more European focused news reports. With what is happening in Italy right now, I think it's hard to argue that this is overblown. It sounds like a confusion nightmare the other night as travelers raced to get out of Dodge to avoid being locked down.
> 
> IMO if ABD was working in its clients best interest (and not $$$), they would be allowing people to cancel if they wanted. If some travelers are still comfortable going on the trip, let them make that decision for their family.
> 
> Even if people aren't personally concerned with exposure risk, the potential for travel disruption is big. Most of the reports I've seen are suggesting this is going to peak during Spring Break. Don't get me wrong, I think the US is way underreporting (and purposefully not testing) the number of cases and exposure risk might not be all that different in parts of Europe than it is in parts of the US. *But when traveling you are at the mercy of a different government and different rules as well as getting stuck somewhere that is not home*. There is only so much ABD can do.
> 
> @morgan98 I hope your family is hanging in there and your husband's travel wasn't impacted by the shutdown.



You've hit the nail on the head for me.  We have required minor medical care in other countries and boy oh boy was it an eye-opener in terms of quality and access to medical care.  Particularly in countries with a high rate of confirmed infection right now - I, personally, don't want to overburden their system, as a tourist, when their own citizenry may need a hospital bed, ventilator, etc.  I also agree they are underreporting and under testing, not just in the US, but in many other countries that may have less access to testing kits than we do here in the US.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

DisneyWishes14 said:


> You've hit the nail on the head for me.  We have required minor medical care in other countries and boy oh boy was it an eye-opener in terms of quality and access to medical care.  Particularly in countries with a high rate of confirmed infection right now - I, personally, don't want to overburden their system, as a tourist, when their own citizenry may need a hospital bed, ventilator, etc.  I also agree they are underreporting and under testing, not just in the US, but in many other countries that may have less access to testing kits than we do here in the US.


Great point about the burdened medical care. That's one of the things that has been on the news--apparently Milan has one of the best regarded medical systems but it is being seriously overburdened. The phone number to call for possible COVID 19 cases here in the UK has been overburdened as well with hour long waits. I forgot to mention one other issue that I didn't anticipate--the fear of catching a regular cold while on vacation. My daughter and husband seem to always catch something when we travel and having a cold right now would be a nightmare--not only with confusion of whether it's COVID, but also being sick in public and/or when trying to fly home. Can you imagine having a cough right now at an airport/public transport or as part of a tour group? Not fun.


----------



## disneyholic family

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> Great point about the burdened medical care. That's one of the things that has been on the news--apparently Milan has one of the best regarded medical systems but it is being seriously overburdened. The phone number to call for possible COVID 19 cases here in the UK has been overburdened as well with hour long waits. I forgot to mention one other issue that I didn't anticipate--the fear of catching a regular cold while on vacation. My daughter and husband seem to always catch something when we travel and having a cold right now would be a nightmare--not only with confusion of whether it's COVID, but also being sick in public and/or when trying to fly home. Can you imagine having a cough right now at an airport/public transport or as part of a tour group? Not fun.



this is what i wrote in a different thread:

this is high risk for everyone age 60 and up (although our critical patient is 38 years old)..
but the point isn't only those who catch it and become critical.
the point is, your medical care system will be swamped, leaving your regular patients out in the cold.
Hospitals can only handle so many patients. In a pinch, they can add capacity, but there is a limit.
What you're seeing in northern Italy is a medical system that has gone way past its limits.
This is bad not only for those who catch this coronavirus, but for everyone else who might need medical care in the normal course of events.
Medical systems are built for day to day needs with a bit of builtin slack, not for something as overwhelming as this. 

.


----------



## neurosx1983

You’re totally right.  That’s why we chose Hawaii,  just to stay in the United States. Even though it’s actually a longer flight from here than Europe.


----------



## NashSmartGuy

Putting all of this in perspective . . .

Per the CDC, over 20,000 people have died of the plain old flu in the US alone since October 1, 2019.  Over 34,000,000 people in the US have been infected with the flu.  Over 340,000 hospitalizations.  We have a vaccine for the flu (which wasn't particularly effective this year).

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/preliminary-in-season-estimates.htm
Compare this with WHO numbers of 105,586 confirmed cases of COVID-19 in the WORLD.  It looks like 3,584 deaths in the WORLD.

https://www.who.int/docs/default-so...0308-sitrep-48-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=16f7ccef_4
Many more people have the flu and have died from it in the US than have COVID-19 in the entire world.  And the media isn't causing a panic about the flu, even though the numbers are far worse than COVID-19.


----------



## disneyholic family

NashSmartGuy said:


> Putting all of this in perspective . . .
> 
> Per the CDC, over 20,000 people have died of the plain old flu in the US alone since October 1, 2019.  Over 34,000,000 people in the US have been infected with the flu.  Over 340,000 hospitalizations.  We have a vaccine for the flu (which wasn't particularly effective this year).
> 
> https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/preliminary-in-season-estimates.htm
> Compare this with WHO numbers of 105,586 confirmed cases of COVID-19 in the WORLD.  It looks like 3,584 deaths in the WORLD.
> 
> https://www.who.int/docs/default-so...0308-sitrep-48-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=16f7ccef_4
> Many more people have the flu and have died from it in the US than have COVID-19 in the entire world.  And the media isn't causing a panic about the flu, even though the numbers are far worse than COVID-19.




yes, and the hospitals are still full of flu patients, which is why countries are trying to delay the cororna outbreak as long as they can and at least until the flu season has passed and hospital beds open up.  
this is all about the availability of medical facilities.

.


----------



## lovetotravel

@neurosx1983 Enjoy Hawaii! We are also a physician ABD family and we have a similar opinion.

I understand all the debate about COVID-19 vs flu vs media. I get the statistics. But then why is the WHO, CDC and the US Dept of State involved and issuing do not travel advisories if COVID-19 was not a big deal?


----------



## JandT'smom

neurosx1983 said:


> You’re totally right.  That’s why we chose Hawaii,  just to stay in the United States. Even though it’s actually a longer flight from here than Europe.


Great choice enjoy!!!


----------



## morgan98

NashSmartGuy said:


> Putting all of this in perspective . . .
> 
> Per the CDC, over 20,000 people have died of the plain old flu in the US alone since October 1, 2019.  Over 34,000,000 people in the US have been infected with the flu.  Over 340,000 hospitalizations.  We have a vaccine for the flu (which wasn't particularly effective this year).
> 
> https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/preliminary-in-season-estimates.htm
> Compare this with WHO numbers of 105,586 confirmed cases of COVID-19 in the WORLD.  It looks like 3,584 deaths in the WORLD.
> 
> https://www.who.int/docs/default-so...0308-sitrep-48-covid-19.pdf?sfvrsn=16f7ccef_4
> Many more people have the flu and have died from it in the US than have COVID-19 in the entire world.  And the media isn't causing a panic about the flu, even though the numbers are far worse than COVID-19.



I too am a numbers person and I agree that on paper, maybe it doesn't necessarily add up.

But until you have personally experienced how seriously it is being treated, I think it is easy to just look at the numbers.

Entire countries would not be tanking economies and making people pass vigorously health screenings before boarding planes.

This issue has become bigger than the numbers.  We can debate why that may be.  But right now travel to certain countries is hard to support.


----------



## JandT'smom

neurosx1983 said:


> You're right...ABD is a business and they have to look out for their interests of course. And I've never suggested that they're willingly trying to put families at risk. Of course not. I can't imagine how difficult it must be for the administration of ABD to make decisions on the trips. Cancelling China and Italy is easy...the CDC and US Govt are saying "DONT GO" so its an easy call. What to do about France which is right next door, and has over a thousand cases and CDC hasn't said not to go yet? That's a tougher problem for them.  To make matters even harder for them, maybe they don't want to cancel when nothing else in Paris has really closed. Louvre, Versailles, and even DLP are all still open.  I can understand if people want to still go on this trip, and I'm sure many people will go unless they cancel. There were 32 people booked including my family.  Maybe for a lot of those people, they see this whole COVID thing as a bit of BS and want to move on with life. And maybe for some of them as @sayhello mentioned, they don't have insurance and don't want to lose everything.  I want to emphasize if there's anyone on the ABD this week seeing this board, please keep in mind that the situation might be much worse when the ABD is over on the 20th and you might have a hard time getting back home, potentially.
> 
> My problem with this trip was that I didn't want to literally walk into a region of the world where cases are going haywire. I thought it irresponsible to literally fly into the eye of a storm.  Again, not the UK, but my worry was and always has been France. I didn't want to be in a group traveling around France, going to crowded places like Louvre and Versailles, standing shoulder to shoulder with people jostling to see the mona lisa and be exposed to god knows what. Not worth it for me and my family. Also, I didn't want to be on the other side of the Atlantic and tell my colleagues at work that I'm stuck for 2 weeks. That wouldn't have gone over very well.  My wife and I even thought of a plan of going on the ABD to London and basically leaving the group when they go to France...but we decided that was kind of dumb.
> 
> My problem with ABD is their lack of communication and attitude that nothing is going on. All is proceeding as usual. Nothing to see here...move on.  I got a total of two emails from ABD and all they both said was "let us know if you've been to China or Italy in the last 2 weeks"
> 
> And I get what you're saying about hysteria. Hysteria doesn't help any situation. My point to ABD when I said "look, I'm a physician and I'm saying it doesn't seem safe to travel to France" was not to rub it in anyone's face that I'm a doctor...but to convey to them that this is my profession and I'm saying its serious.  I think if I weren't a physician, and a physician told me that they themselves are feeling uncomfortable about traveling to a certain country, I would be a bit freaked out.
> On a side note, almost all of my colleagues at work (other physicians) have literally told me I'm nuts to even think about going to Europe this week.  That's just my experience.
> 
> Anyway, to each their own. I think one thing is clear. We are all Disney fans and we all on this board have a certain amount of affection of ABD. That's without a doubt. I'm incredibly bummed out that I'm not going on this trip this week. You guys dont know how much I had researched. Including listening to the podcasts from Pete/John/Kevin about both of their trips multiple times!
> But its' important for us to be smart and not fall into the trap of thinking Disney can do no harm. They're a business after all.  We just have to do what's right for our families.


Just chiming  in Had a Doctor from Mayo Clinic in Rochester tell us Do Not Go... I will listen to medical professionals way before I trust ABD on this. Europe will be there in a few months or next year.


----------



## lovetotravel

JandT'smom said:


> Just chiming  in Had a Doctor from Mayo Clinic in Rochester tell us Do Not Go... I will listen to medical professionals way before I trust ABD on this. Europe will be there in a few months or next year.


Exactly! 

Why are countries locking down cities and threatening jail if citizens don't comply, why are we quarantining people, why do we have ships by CA and FL not able to dock? Do we do this for the flu?


----------



## vakamalua

It's not just that you and your family could get sick w coronavirus or get caught in a quarantine situation.  Even if you are not in a high risk population, you could still get infected, have little or no symptoms and them become a carrier while traveling and when you return home.  Thus becoming part of the community spread problem.

ABD needs to develop a customer friendly policy or they risk losing future business.  The Disney-name only goes so far.


----------



## Cliffside

I still can’t believe that ABD has not relaxed their cancellation policies at all. Especially since the state department and the cdc has warned Americans against traveling by cruise. We are booked on the first Danube River cruise and would like the flexibility that has been offered to the early DCL European itineraries. This has become more stressful after seeing the river cruise in Egypt that has COVID-19.


----------



## JandT'smom

vakamalua said:


> It's not just that you and your family could get sick w coronavirus or get caught in a quarantine situation.  Even if you are not in a high risk population, you could still get infected, have little or no symptoms and them become a carrier while traveling and when you return home.  Thus becoming part of the community spread problem.
> 
> ABD needs to develop a customer friendly policy or they risk losing future business.  The Disney-name only goes so far.


I for one have always trusted the Disney Brand, felt like they took care of me!!! I am DVC, and Gold on cruise line. I am not at all happy with communication and the response compare to other concierge type travel companies. It gives me great pain to say it but this will be my last ABD unless they step up to the plate.


----------



## lovetotravel

*Health Alert* – U.S. Embassy Cairo, Egypt (March 9, 2020)
*Location:*  Egypt
*Event:*  There is an ongoing outbreak of Coronavirus (COVID-19) first identified in Wuhan, China.  The global public health threat posed by COVID-19 is high, with more than 100,000 reported cases worldwide. 

·         Here is the latest Health Alert from the Department of State regarding travel on cruise ships:  https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/index.html. U.S. citizens, particularly travelers with underlying health conditions, should not travel by cruise ship.

·         The U.S. Embassy in Cairo has been informed by the Embassy of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia that all air travelers who are arriving from or through any airports in the Arab Republic of Egypt must have a complete medical examination (PCR) confirming that they are free of the COVID-19 virus issued 24 hours before boarding a flight to any airport in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.  The test and exam must be done by one of the laboratories approved by the Saudi Arabian Embassy in Cairo.  Please contact the Embassy of Saudi Arabia for more information and a list of the approved laboratories.

·         Other countries in the region are also restricting travel for travelers originating in Egypt.  Please check with your airline or travel agent for any restrictions.

·         The Department of State urges travelers to use good judgment when traveling so as not to put themselves at undue risk of contracting COVID-19.


----------



## SingingMom

We are booked for Adult Inclusive Italy in October.  I figure if they need to cancel, they will cancel.  But, I haven't gotten our flight yet!   Not sure if I should "wait & see"..... I'm a 
planner" -  I hate "indecision"!  lol


----------



## Networth

Running through my feed and I came across this. I felt like this belonged here.

“I'm a doctor and an Infectious Diseases Specialist. I've been at this for more than 20 years seeing sick patients on a daily basis. I have worked in inner city hospitals and in the poorest slums of Africa. HIV-AIDS, Hepatitis,TB, SARS, Measles, Shingles, Whooping cough, Diphtheria...there is little I haven't been exposed to in my profession. And with notable exception of SARS, very little has left me feeling vulnerable, overwhelmed or downright scared.

I am not scared of Covid-19. I am concerned about the implications of a novel infectious agent that has spread the world over and continues to find new footholds in different soil.  I am rightly concerned for the welfare of those who are elderly, in frail health or disenfranchised who stand to suffer mostly, and disproportionately, at the hands of this new scourge. But I am not scared of Covid-19.

What I am scared about is the loss of reason and wave of fear that has induced the masses of society into a spellbinding spiral of panic, stockpiling obscene quantities of anything that could fill a bomb shelter adequately in a post-apocalyptic world. I am scared of the N95 masks that are stolen from hospitals and urgent care clinics where they are actually needed for front line healthcare providers and instead are being donned in airports, malls, and coffee lounges, perpetuating even more fear and suspicion of others. I am scared that our hospitals will be overwhelmed with anyone who thinks they " probably don't have it but may as well get checked out no matter what because you just never know..." and those with heart failure, emphysema, pneumonia and  strokes will pay the price for overfilled ER waiting rooms with only so many doctors and nurses to assess.

I am scared that travel restrictions will become so far reaching that weddings will be canceled, graduations missed and family reunions will not materialize. And well, even that big party called the Olympic Games...that could be kyboshed too.

I'm scared those same epidemic fears will limit trade, harm partnerships in multiple sectors, business and otherwise and ultimately culminate in a global recession.

But mostly, I'm scared about what message we are telling our kids when faced with a threat. Instead of reason, rationality, openmindedness and altruism, we are telling them to panic, be fearful, suspicious, reactionary and self-interested.

Covid-19 is nowhere near over. It will be coming to a city, a hospital, a friend, even a family member near you at some point. Expect it.  Stop waiting to be surprised further. The fact is the virus itself will not likely do much harm when it arrives. But our own behaviors and "fight for yourself above all else" attitude could prove disastrous.

I implore you all. Temper fear with reason, panic with patience and uncertainty with education. We have an opportunity to learn a great deal about health hygiene and limiting the spread of innumerable transmissible diseases in our society. Let's meet this challenge together in the best spirit of compassion for others, patience, and above all, an unfailing effort to seek truth, facts and knowledge as opposed to conjecture, speculation and catastrophizing.

Facts not fear. Clean hands. Open hearts.
Our children will thank us for it”


----------



## disneyholic family

yeah, well we just had a senior doctor infect an entire hospital, everyone now has to go into quarantine.
Fun times.  He came back from Belgium. Belgium isn't one of the travel restriction countries, so he didn't home-quarantine.
Went back to work in his hospital.  All over the place as needed over several days and then oops....he didn't feel so good.  So he was tested and yes, covid19
So stupid. We've been saying from the beginning we need a general requirement for all returning travelers, regardless of country, to home-quarantine for 14 days.
But we didn't. Even yesterday, when we finally were going to pull the trigger on that, President Trump convinced our PM not to.  How annoying and i actually happen to like Trump, but not on this occasion.
We are going to have a major rise in our numbers, but worse than that, we now have a hospital full of doctors and nurses who need to be quarantined.  Think about what that does to availability of medical care in that city.  Not good.


----------



## sayhello

This is what I'm hearing:  "I understand what the numbers say, but why are people PANICKING INSANELY if the numbers don't look so bad?  They wouldn't be panicking if it wasn't horrible!"  I'm just saying, I do NOT understand the extent of the panic in comparison to what's actually going on.  Because it *is* no worse than influenza.  We're just _used_ to influenza because it's been around so long, and we feel like we have more control over it, because there's a vaccine and treatments.  (Even if the vaccine is not always that effective, and the treatments only work if they are administered within a couple of days).  If we shut down the world every time there was an influenza outbreak, the world would be closed for MONTHS every single year.  So we've learned to deal with it, and accept the risk.



Networth said:


> Running through my feed and I came across this. I felt like this belonged here.
> 
> “I'm a doctor and an Infectious Diseases Specialist. I've been at this for more than 20 years seeing sick patients on a daily basis. I have worked in inner city hospitals and in the poorest slums of Africa. HIV-AIDS, Hepatitis,TB, SARS, Measles, Shingles, Whooping cough, Diphtheria...there is little I haven't been exposed to in my profession. And with notable exception of SARS, very little has left me feeling vulnerable, overwhelmed or downright scared.
> 
> I am not scared of Covid-19. I am concerned about the implications of a novel infectious agent that has spread the world over and continues to find new footholds in different soil.  I am rightly concerned for the welfare of those who are elderly, in frail health or disenfranchised who stand to suffer mostly, and disproportionately, at the hands of this new scourge. But I am not scared of Covid-19.
> 
> What I am scared about is the loss of reason and wave of fear that has induced the masses of society into a spellbinding spiral of panic, stockpiling obscene quantities of anything that could fill a bomb shelter adequately in a post-apocalyptic world. I am scared of the N95 masks that are stolen from hospitals and urgent care clinics where they are actually needed for front line healthcare providers and instead are being donned in airports, malls, and coffee lounges, perpetuating even more fear and suspicion of others. I am scared that our hospitals will be overwhelmed with anyone who thinks they " probably don't have it but may as well get checked out no matter what because you just never know..." and those with heart failure, emphysema, pneumonia and  strokes will pay the price for overfilled ER waiting rooms with only so many doctors and nurses to assess.
> 
> I am scared that travel restrictions will become so far reaching that weddings will be canceled, graduations missed and family reunions will not materialize. And well, even that big party called the Olympic Games...that could be kyboshed too.
> 
> I'm scared those same epidemic fears will limit trade, harm partnerships in multiple sectors, business and otherwise and ultimately culminate in a global recession.
> 
> But mostly, I'm scared about what message we are telling our kids when faced with a threat. Instead of reason, rationality, openmindedness and altruism, we are telling them to panic, be fearful, suspicious, reactionary and self-interested.
> 
> Covid-19 is nowhere near over. It will be coming to a city, a hospital, a friend, even a family member near you at some point. Expect it.  Stop waiting to be surprised further. The fact is the virus itself will not likely do much harm when it arrives. But our own behaviors and "fight for yourself above all else" attitude could prove disastrous.
> 
> I implore you all. Temper fear with reason, panic with patience and uncertainty with education. We have an opportunity to learn a great deal about health hygiene and limiting the spread of innumerable transmissible diseases in our society. Let's meet this challenge together in the best spirit of compassion for others, patience, and above all, an unfailing effort to seek truth, facts and knowledge as opposed to conjecture, speculation and catastrophizing.
> 
> Facts not fear. Clean hands. Open hearts.
> Our children will thank us for it”


I saw this on my feed, also, and it helped restore me to sanity.  This thread was starting to get to me.



CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> Great point about the burdened medical care. That's one of the things that has been on the news--apparently Milan has one of the best regarded medical systems but it is being seriously overburdened. The phone number to call for possible COVID 19 cases here in the UK has been overburdened as well with hour long waits. I forgot to mention one other issue that I didn't anticipate--the fear of catching a regular cold while on vacation. My daughter and husband seem to always catch something when we travel and having a cold right now would be a nightmare--not only with confusion of whether it's COVID, but also being sick in public and/or when trying to fly home. Can you imagine having a cough right now at an airport/public transport or as part of a tour group? Not fun.


I decided not to go to a wedding in Brooklyn the weekend before last because I had a minor cold.  It wasn't so much that I didn't feel up to going (the flight was Thursday, and the wedding was Sunday) but it was not wanting to freak out people on my flight, or maybe getting quarantined in JFK.   It ended up turning into a mild case of bronchitis, which I still have a cough from.  If I'd gone to Brooklyn, the chances of me boarding my flight home from JFK with this cough (but NO fever!) would probably have been pretty small.  And *if* I'd been allowed to board, I'm sure everyone on that flight would have been totally freaking about my cough.  I went to a casual restaurant for lunch yesterday, and felt like I had to explain to the server that it was not coronavirus, and that I wasn't contagious.  Not a fear of COVID-19 for me, but a fear of the fear, and of the reactions.

Sayhello


----------



## Candycane83

Networth said:


> Running through my feed and I came across this. I felt like this belonged here.
> 
> “I'm a doctor and an Infectious Diseases Specialist. I've been at this for more than 20 years seeing sick patients on a daily basis. I have worked in inner city hospitals and in the poorest slums of Africa. HIV-AIDS, Hepatitis,TB, SARS, Measles, Shingles, Whooping cough, Diphtheria...there is little I haven't been exposed to in my profession. And with notable exception of SARS, very little has left me feeling vulnerable, overwhelmed or downright scared.
> 
> I am not scared of Covid-19. I am concerned about the implications of a novel infectious agent that has spread the world over and continues to find new footholds in different soil.  I am rightly concerned for the welfare of those who are elderly, in frail health or disenfranchised who stand to suffer mostly, and disproportionately, at the hands of this new scourge. But I am not scared of Covid-19.
> 
> What I am scared about is the loss of reason and wave of fear that has induced the masses of society into a spellbinding spiral of panic, stockpiling obscene quantities of anything that could fill a bomb shelter adequately in a post-apocalyptic world. I am scared of the N95 masks that are stolen from hospitals and urgent care clinics where they are actually needed for front line healthcare providers and instead are being donned in airports, malls, and coffee lounges, perpetuating even more fear and suspicion of others. I am scared that our hospitals will be overwhelmed with anyone who thinks they " probably don't have it but may as well get checked out no matter what because you just never know..." and those with heart failure, emphysema, pneumonia and  strokes will pay the price for overfilled ER waiting rooms with only so many doctors and nurses to assess.
> 
> I am scared that travel restrictions will become so far reaching that weddings will be canceled, graduations missed and family reunions will not materialize. And well, even that big party called the Olympic Games...that could be kyboshed too.
> 
> I'm scared those same epidemic fears will limit trade, harm partnerships in multiple sectors, business and otherwise and ultimately culminate in a global recession.
> 
> But mostly, I'm scared about what message we are telling our kids when faced with a threat. Instead of reason, rationality, openmindedness and altruism, we are telling them to panic, be fearful, suspicious, reactionary and self-interested.
> 
> Covid-19 is nowhere near over. It will be coming to a city, a hospital, a friend, even a family member near you at some point. Expect it.  Stop waiting to be surprised further. The fact is the virus itself will not likely do much harm when it arrives. But our own behaviors and "fight for yourself above all else" attitude could prove disastrous.
> 
> I implore you all. Temper fear with reason, panic with patience and uncertainty with education. We have an opportunity to learn a great deal about health hygiene and limiting the spread of innumerable transmissible diseases in our society. Let's meet this challenge together in the best spirit of compassion for others, patience, and above all, an unfailing effort to seek truth, facts and knowledge as opposed to conjecture, speculation and catastrophizing.
> 
> Facts not fear. Clean hands. Open hearts.
> Our children will thank us for it”


Thank you for sharing this!


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

sayhello said:


> I decided not to go to a wedding in Brooklyn the weekend before last because I had a minor cold.  It wasn't so much that I didn't feel up to going (the flight was Thursday, and the wedding was Sunday) but it was not wanting to freak out people on my flight, or maybe getting quarantined in JFK.   It ended up turning into a mild case of bronchitis, which I still have a cough from.  If I'd gone to Brooklyn, the chances of me boarding my flight home from JFK with this cough (but NO fever!) would probably have been pretty small.  And *if* I'd been allowed to board, I'm sure everyone on that flight would have been totally freaking about my cough.  I went to a casual restaurant for lunch yesterday, and felt like I had to explain to the server that it was not coronavirus, and that I wasn't contagious.  Not a fear of COVID-19 for me, but a fear of the fear, and of the reactions.
> 
> Sayhello


Exactly! It's the reactions of others, I would be worried about. I'm seeing it everywhere I go.


----------



## neurosx1983

Networth said:


> Running through my feed and I came across this. I felt like this belonged here.
> 
> “I'm a doctor and an Infectious Diseases Specialist. I've been at this for more than 20 years seeing sick patients on a daily basis. I have worked in inner city hospitals and in the poorest slums of Africa. HIV-AIDS, Hepatitis,TB, SARS, Measles, Shingles, Whooping cough, Diphtheria...there is little I haven't been exposed to in my profession. And with notable exception of SARS, very little has left me feeling vulnerable, overwhelmed or downright scared.
> 
> I am not scared of Covid-19. I am concerned about the implications of a novel infectious agent that has spread the world over and continues to find new footholds in different soil.  I am rightly concerned for the welfare of those who are elderly, in frail health or disenfranchised who stand to suffer mostly, and disproportionately, at the hands of this new scourge. But I am not scared of Covid-19.
> 
> What I am scared about is the loss of reason and wave of fear that has induced the masses of society into a spellbinding spiral of panic, stockpiling obscene quantities of anything that could fill a bomb shelter adequately in a post-apocalyptic world. I am scared of the N95 masks that are stolen from hospitals and urgent care clinics where they are actually needed for front line healthcare providers and instead are being donned in airports, malls, and coffee lounges, perpetuating even more fear and suspicion of others. I am scared that our hospitals will be overwhelmed with anyone who thinks they " probably don't have it but may as well get checked out no matter what because you just never know..." and those with heart failure, emphysema, pneumonia and  strokes will pay the price for overfilled ER waiting rooms with only so many doctors and nurses to assess.
> 
> I am scared that travel restrictions will become so far reaching that weddings will be canceled, graduations missed and family reunions will not materialize. And well, even that big party called the Olympic Games...that could be kyboshed too.
> 
> I'm scared those same epidemic fears will limit trade, harm partnerships in multiple sectors, business and otherwise and ultimately culminate in a global recession.
> 
> But mostly, I'm scared about what message we are telling our kids when faced with a threat. Instead of reason, rationality, openmindedness and altruism, we are telling them to panic, be fearful, suspicious, reactionary and self-interested.
> 
> Covid-19 is nowhere near over. It will be coming to a city, a hospital, a friend, even a family member near you at some point. Expect it.  Stop waiting to be surprised further. The fact is the virus itself will not likely do much harm when it arrives. But our own behaviors and "fight for yourself above all else" attitude could prove disastrous.
> 
> I implore you all. Temper fear with reason, panic with patience and uncertainty with education. We have an opportunity to learn a great deal about health hygiene and limiting the spread of innumerable transmissible diseases in our society. Let's meet this challenge together in the best spirit of compassion for others, patience, and above all, an unfailing effort to seek truth, facts and knowledge as opposed to conjecture, speculation and catastrophizing.
> 
> Facts not fear. Clean hands. Open hearts.
> Our children will thank us for it”




I actually think this is a valid point. Although 99% of colleagues have told me I'm crazy to think of going to France right now, there have been a few colleagues and a couple of them who are ID specialists who have told me its OK to go. In fact, one ID colleague told me I didn't even have to wear a mask. So that was a relief in the sense that I don't have to worry about a flight or going through the airport. Because, lets face it, I live in the NYC area and EWR/JFK aren't all that rosey to begin with. They're baseline disgusting. With COVID fears I'll be more careful of what I touch at the airport.

But while I agree that a lot of this panic is getting a little overblown, Its important to be sensible and not literally fly into a country with as many cases as France. All of those landmarks will be there next year...I promise.  That's why we are still getting on a plane for a long flight, but just not going to Europe.

As I said in an earlier post, I think its important for us to not get bogged down with Disney-goggles and think that they can do no wrong. We need to call them out for what's good and what's bad. @WebmasterPete is probably the best example of this. You won't find a bigger Disney fan on this planet, but he's not going to let them get away with stuff.  ABD's lack of proper communication on this has been a big misfire on their part.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

Cliffside said:


> I still can’t believe that ABD has not relaxed their cancellation policies at all. Especially since the state department and the cdc has warned Americans against traveling by cruise. We are booked on the first Danube River cruise and would like the flexibility that has been offered to the early DCL European itineraries. This has become more stressful after seeing the river cruise in Egypt that has COVID-19.



I've been up since 4 am.  Minor panic episode in the middle night when it dawned on me that the State Dept. warning may very well apply to our ABD Rhine cruise this summer if this continues.  We haven't purchased flights yet which is a positive thing.  I was also just about to put a deposit down with a small German tour company for a post-cruise trip through southern Germany.  I'm in a holding pattern now, of course.  However, like most people on this thread, we are a couple thousand $$ deep with ABD.  Ugh.  I kind of regret being so organized in planning our travel so far in advance.


----------



## Woodview

Living    In  Ireland  

    All   St. Patrick's  Day    Parades       (  March  17th  )   are  NOW   officially     Called  OFF

          MOST    European  Sporting    events are now  being  held  in   Empty    Stadiums  

 Advice     is            NOT  to TRAVEL           to  Italy    ( Venice  to  Milan  )

..........................................


----------



## BluesTraveler

sayhello said:


> Because it *is* no worse than influenza.



Wait, I want to correct this, because I've also seen it in my Facebook and Twitter feeds this morning.  It is true that flu kills more people in *absolute numbers*, because we are more widely exposed to flu.  But in terms of rate (the percentage of people who are killed or become critically ill), COVID-19 is significantly worse.  Of course we are still trying to get a grasp of "how much worse," but among public health experts there is no doubt that it is worse. 

South Korea has probably done the best job of testing of any country, and their death rate is 0.6% (compared to 0.1% for flu).  0.6% is significantly better than 3% seen in other places, but will still be a tremendous burden on our health care system and is still much deadlier than flu.    This is why slowing the rate of infection is so critical from a public health perspective - the more slowly it spreads, the better our hospitals can absorb the influx of those who are critically ill.


----------



## Woodview

disneyholic family said:


> yeah, well we just had a senior doctor infect an entire hospital, everyone now has to go into quarantine.
> Fun times.  He came back from Belgium. Belgium isn't one of the travel restriction countries, so he didn't home-quarantine.
> Went back to work in his hospital.  All over the place as needed over several days and then oops....he didn't feel so good.  So he was tested and yes, covid19
> So stupid. We've been saying from the beginning we need a general requirement for all returning travelers, regardless of country, to home-quarantine for 14 days.
> But we didn't. Even yesterday, when we finally were going to pull the trigger on that, President Trump convinced our PM not to.  How annoying and i actually happen to like Trump, but not on this occasion.
> We are going to have a major rise in our numbers, but worse than that, we now have a hospital full of doctors and nurses who need to be quarantined.  Think about what that does to availability of medical care in that city.  Not good.




             Remember      There are  no  Borders           between     States   in  The USA     

              So           This  Covid   19        will        travel  Fast   & USA    will be a  NO GO    area


----------



## Jess_S

This morning we received notice from our school district of 2 confirmed cases here (student and parent) and suspected cases among other parents. School is still on and apparently the children of the suspect cases are still attending. Meanwhile my son's hands are in his mouth all the time and he doesn't wash up properly unless forced to. It's looking an awful lot like I cancelled my vacation and may wind up catching this at home anyway.

I really think ABD should be letting people cancel without penalty for any itinerary now. Those who are in high risk groups probably shouldn't be traveling at all and the rest of us should have the option to cancel to minimize our chances of spreading this (and all the other flu strains going around).

I don't agree with the idea of the whole US automatically becoming some sort of post apocalyptic no go zone though. Borders or not, it is a huge country with lots of diversity in terms of how this is being handled from place to place.


----------



## chuff88

Jess_S said:


> This morning we received notice from our school district of 2 confirmed cases here (student and parent) and suspected cases among other parents. School is still on and apparently the children of the suspect cases are still attending. Meanwhile my son's hands are in his mouth all the time and he doesn't wash up properly unless forced to. It's looking an awful lot like I cancelled my vacation and may wind up catching this at home anyway.
> 
> I really think ABD should be letting people cancel without penalty for any itinerary now. Those who are in high risk groups probably shouldn't be traveling at all and the rest of us should have the option to cancel to minimize our chances of spreading this (and all the other flu strains going around).
> 
> I don't agree with the idea of the whole US automatically becoming some sort of post apocalyptic no go zone though. Borders or not, it is a huge country with lots of diversity in terms of how this is being handled from place to place.


We don't have any confirmed (or as far as I know, even suspected) cases in my town, but we do in the state. Our ABD isn't even until the end of August, but our PIF is coming up and I'm nervous. We're going to Greece, which has only a small number of cases and seems to be responding well, but my mom is in her 70s so I'm definitely anxious. We also paid an arm and a leg for flights that aren't refundable. Right now we're just operating under the assumption that we're going and it'll work out by then, but the mean voice in the back of my head is telling me other things.


----------



## Donalyn

The "end of times" fear is not necessary, I agree.  But it also isn't surprising.  It is 100% to be expected when there is a threat to normal daily activity and the unknown.  I mean, think about how crazy the grocery store is on the day before a holiday when the store is going to be closed the next day (or closed for a few hours, etc.). Now, add possibility of death to that situation.  Now add potential for over-run hospitals and lack of access to the high level of medical care that the ADB travelers on this board are used to and expect.  Now add distrust of the government and/or media.  What you get is panic, which unfortunately makes everything worse.  

And I love statistics - you can make them say whatever you want.  Yes, more Americans have died of the normal flu than people have currently in the entire world from Covid-19.  And I'd like that to remain true.  But, to my knowledge, we don't wear HAZMAT suits to treat flu patients and we don't lock down millions of people to treat the flu (people in Wuhan are literally locked in their apartment building complexes) or have nearly 300,000,000 kids out of school worldwide for over a month for the flu, or let prisoners out of jail due to the flu, etc.  

I'm hoping that the world can look back at this next year at this time and laugh at the collective craziness of all of the cancellations, restrictions, etc.  But, it isn't clear to me that we will.


----------



## Rapunzellover

I had just booked an August trip with Tauck to Scotland.  Want to go back there this year and I was gonna redo the ABD (itinerary has changed) but I backed out of that after my great Portugal trip with Tauck (in time to get my ABD refund).  Decided to wait until Tauck had it's annual air special for discounted international flights so I just booked 10 days ago.  Had 10 day grace period and backed out today to get a deposit refund.  I'm not super concerned.... yet.  But I don't want to make plans even that far ahead right now.  It's all way to chaotic.  I echo Donalyn above-  I'm hoping we are going overboard over this... but I am not at all sure we are.  

Of course, I work at a school and am in CA where it's all over the place (just discovered a confirmed case in a town about 20 minutes from my work, where many of my students live.).  I will probably end up infected anyhow, but... I'd rather not be out money.  I'll wait and see right now and plan last minute.


----------



## AquaDame

I feel like there is a lot of back and forth about fear... fear isn't just for you. 

Staying home isn't just for you. If you catch it at home, why think, oh, I should have gone? At home you can keep it to yourself. You won't have to be admitted into hospital in a foreign place. You won't catch it and then expose others to it on the plane, in the taxi, at the airport. You (probably) won't be eating out as much, or going to tourist locations while it incubates. At home, we're mostly at home. Even if you go to work, or school because you don't know and spread it, how many people is that compared to the thousands more you'd come into contact with by traveling? We're also allowing our local resources to deal with it versus making it someone else's problem. 

I fully expect to catch this thing at some point - I work in a place where people travel all over. One of my coworkers just got back from Italy this weekend and has chosen to quarantine at home (nice!) but then had another coworker bring him his laptop so she's been in contact with him and came to work normally (d'oh!). 

I'm not afraid of it. But I do fear spreading it.. if this is all still going down come October - which I do doubt FWIW - we'll cancel our WDW trip.


----------



## Magnum_PI

@morgan98 Did your husband get on his flight home?  Immediately thought of you guys when I saw that Italy just closed travel to/from/within.


----------



## disneyholic family

update from Israel where our numbers are starting to climb (we're at 50, after a one day increase of 11)

The ministry of health finally instituted mandatory 14 day home quarantine for ALL travelers returning from ALL countries in the world (including the USA).
.


----------



## disneyholic family

Speaking of italy, they've reached total confirmed cases of 9,172 after another staggering 1 day increase of 1,797 
France is at 1,412 (today's increase was 203).....
Spain and Germany are close in number to france and the rest of europe, including the UK are beginning to see big increases in the day by day numbers

More indicative of the overwhelmed medical system, Italy's death toll is now at 463, having increased today by 93.
And they have 733 in critical/serious condition.
An italian doctor was interviewed on our news program here - he said they just can't handle the critical cases and they're simply taking people off ventilators, even though the patients still need them, as there just aren't enough to go around.  In other words, they're letting people die. He said they pick the worst cases and let them go.  That's an overwhelmed hospital at work.

.


----------



## neurosx1983

disneyholic family said:


> Speaking of italy, they've reached total confirmed cases of 9,172 after another staggering 1 day increase of 1,797
> France is at 1,412 (today's increase was 203).....
> Spain and Germany are close in number to france and the rest of europe, including the UK are beginning to see big increases in the day by day numbers
> 
> More indicative of the overwhelmed medical system, Italy's death toll is now at 463, having increased today by 93.
> And they have 733 in critical/serious condition.
> An italian doctor was interviewed on our news program here - he said they just can't handle the critical cases and they're simply taking people off ventilators, even though the patients still need them, as there just aren't enough to go around.  In other words, they're letting people die. He said they pick the worst cases and let them go.  That's an overwhelmed hospital at work.
> 
> .



And yet... ABD wants to go ahead and sightsee in the middle of all of this. I think they are waiting for the CDC to make a judgment call on these countries before they say anything but I don’t think the CDC is going to do that anymore because this is exploding out of control.

what do we know about the power structure of ABD? Are they and cruise line part of the same division? I don’t envy the people that need to be making decisions right now but still it just seems silly to travel to Europe right now in a group tour. Borderline crazy.


----------



## disneyholic family

neurosx1983 said:


> And yet... ABD wants to go ahead and sightsee in the middle of all of this. I think they are waiting for the CDC to make a judgment call on these countries before they say anything but I don’t think the CDC is going to do that anymore because this is exploding out of control.
> 
> what do we know about the power structure of ABD? Are they and cruise line part of the same division? I don’t envy the people that need to be making decisions right now but still it just seems silly to travel to Europe right now in a group tour. Borderline crazy.



I completely agree.
And the lack of communication and the inflexibility are upsetting in the extreme.

.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

neurosx1983 said:


> And yet... ABD wants to go ahead and sightsee in the middle of all of this. I think they are waiting for the CDC to make a judgment call on these countries before they say anything but I don’t think the CDC is going to do that anymore because this is exploding out of control.
> 
> what do we know about the power structure of ABD? Are they and cruise line part of the same division? I don’t envy the people that need to be making decisions right now but still it just seems silly to travel to Europe right now in a group tour. Borderline crazy.


I was reading that the UK sees themselves about 2-3 weeks behind Italy in terms of where they expect to be with the virus. They are saying they will restrict all travel to / from / within the UK if / when they reach the point Italy is at. Yet still no decision from ABD. I'm not sure what ABD is waiting for to cancel their upcoming London / France trip, but the optics are really, really bad.

I was e-mailing Scott Dunn, the company I booked the Russia / N. Europe of my May trip with, and they said if I cancel our trip then I lose the entire deposit ($5,000.00). They'd be happy to help me book Banff / Lake Louise instead, but it would count as a new booking and I'd still be out the deposit for Russia / N. Europe (I can't fathom the logic here as I specifically told them not to book any flights or hotels until I had my Russia visa in hand, which I should have on the 12th and WHY would I book another trip with this company that has no respect for my health and well-being?). I have until March 20th to decide if we will continue with this trip (that's the PIF date). I am thinking that travel on our own is much more appealing moving forward.


----------



## Woodview

Italy       is now      Shut Down


----------



## Diana Risco

neurosx1983 said:


> You’re totally right.  That’s why we chose Hawaii,  just to stay in the United States. Even though it’s actually a longer flight from here than Europe.


I am sorry that your planned trip didn’t turn out. I was promptly refunded by ABD for the March 27th Italy trip today. Italy for next spring break.


----------



## morgan98

Magnum_PI said:


> @morgan98 Did your husband get on his flight home?  Immediately thought of you guys when I saw that Italy just closed travel to/from/within.



He landed at JFK at 4:10pm.  You don't know how happy I am I woke up yesterday, called Delta and told him to get his butt to Rome.

Now for two weeks of self quarantine.  He has no symptoms and my employer prefer that I stay home with him anyway and work from here.  I will be seeing him at the Atlanta airport in about one hour.  I just went and did shopping and wine buying for staying in for two weeks.  I know I can order things from Amazon and grocery delivery too if I forgot something.

Now fingers crossed for 14 healthy days.

I appreciate you thinking of me.


----------



## Magnum_PI

morgan98 said:


> He landed at JFK at 4:10pm.  You don't know how happy I am I woke up yesterday, called Delta and told him to get his butt to Rome.
> 
> Now for two weeks of self quarantine.  He has no symptoms and my employer prefer that I stay home with him anyway and work from here.  I will be seeing him at the Atlanta airport in about one hour.  I just went and did shopping and wine buying for staying in for two weeks.  I know I can order things from Amazon and grocery delivery too if I forgot something.
> 
> Now fingers crossed for 14 healthy days.
> 
> I appreciate you thinking of me.



Thinking of you both!  Also wishing you guys 14 healthy days.


----------



## rhinodadz

So with all that's transpired in the last 24 hours we've now decided to pull the plug on this week's UK/France adventure. More from the perspective of not wanting to possibly spread the virus further and not wanting to face a possible quarantine when returning. If ABD doesn't cancel by Thursday afternoon we'll pull the trigger on the travel insurance and eat the 25%. 

Trying to figure out a Plan B now - not gonna give up the time off as it's a chore to coordinate our schedules for vacation. Probably just rent a condo at the beach (we're in Central Florida). Or a staycation at WDW.


----------



## Diana Risco

neurosx1983 said:


> And yet... ABD wants to go ahead and sightsee in the middle of all of this. I think they are waiting for the CDC to make a judgment call on these countries before they say anything but I don’t think the CDC is going to do that anymore because this is exploding out of control.
> 
> what do we know about the power structure of ABD? Are they and cruise line part of the same division? I don’t envy the people that need to be making decisions right now but still it just seems silly to travel to Europe right now in a group tour. Borderline crazy.
> [/
> I so agree with you. I really hope ABD will refund all those who do not wish to travel to Europe or elsewhere. Have a good time in Hawaii.


----------



## Donalyn

disneyholic family said:


> An italian doctor was interviewed on our news program here - he said they just can't handle the critical cases and they're simply taking people off ventilators, even though the patients still need them, as there just aren't enough to go around. In other words, they're letting people die. He said they pick the worst cases and let them go. That's an overwhelmed hospital at work.



This is like war-time triage.  Tough choices to make to save the most save-able patients, using the resources where they can do the most good.  Think of being that doctor, who has taken an oath to do no harm, who is faced with basically picking whether to try and save one person over another.  (And think of the ethical questions that raises.)  

This is why there is fear.... (and why I've been worried for weeks about one of my kids, who has asthma and gets pneumonia very easily.  She will likely need intensive care if she gets this).  And why the draconian measures are in effect to slow the spread.


----------



## neurosx1983

rhinodadz said:


> So with all that's transpired in the last 24 hours we've now decided to pull the plug on this week's UK/France adventure. More from the perspective of not wanting to possibly spread the virus further and not wanting to face a possible quarantine when returning. If ABD doesn't cancel by Thursday afternoon we'll pull the trigger on the travel insurance and eat the 25%.
> 
> Trying to figure out a Plan B now - not gonna give up the time off as it's a chore to coordinate our schedules for vacation. Probably just rent a condo at the beach (we're in Central Florida). Or a staycation at WDW.



Sorry about that. I know you guys tried to hold off. ABD baffles me with their ineptitude in not canceling this trip. What the heck are they waiting for? Do they think at this point its going to be a normal trip and everyone's going to be riding bikes at Versailles as if nothing is going on?

Come to Hawaii! The way I see it, Its going to be relaxing as hell and god knows we all need that after how things have been on the news (BTW while I'm there I'm not going to turn on the news)
and at least you're still in the US. 
We're going to FS Hualalai...looks incredible. Aulani looks too crowded and not as nice. IMO.


----------



## Dis87ney

I have an ABD fully paid for Italy in June and I’m getting worried (doesn’t help that I’m paying in CAD so the rate is horrible)...I’ve @Waltdisneyco on twitter asking them why they don’t have an advisory on their website. I also have a cruise on the back end of my trip with Royal and they’ve made sure people can cancel and use their amount paid for a future cruise...why is ABD avoiding this issue


----------



## Candycane83

My DS is now developing a cough which is normal for this time of year for him really but this makes me even more worried about travelling this Saturday to Costa Rica... we might have to really look into moving this to another date.  

edit to add: this is me thinking at 2-3am and would probably not pull the plug in the morning but it sure is stressful


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

morgan98 said:


> He landed at JFK at 4:10pm.  You don't know how happy I am I woke up yesterday, called Delta and told him to get his butt to Rome.
> 
> Now for two weeks of self quarantine.  He has no symptoms and my employer prefer that I stay home with him anyway and work from here.  I will be seeing him at the Atlanta airport in about one hour.  I just went and did shopping and wine buying for staying in for two weeks.  I know I can order things from Amazon and grocery delivery too if I forgot something.
> 
> Now fingers crossed for 14 healthy days.
> 
> I appreciate you thinking of me.


I am so happy to hear this. I tagged you yesterday to ask, but I may have done it wrong  I've been thinking about him as I watch these unreal images coming out of of Italy. The BBC news is full of all kinds of possible measures if it rises like Italy. I'm glad we are flying out on Thursday, but I'm worried about DD20 who is supposed to fly home on 4/1 for part of her Spring Break. That could be right at the peak of this and I'm worried about her getting out as well as getting back in of the UK. My brother works at a big financial company in Los Angeles, and they were just all told to work from home for at least two weeks and not to travel.


----------



## disneyholic family

Donalyn said:


> This is like war-time triage.  Tough choices to make to save the most save-able patients, using the resources where they can do the most good.  Think of being that doctor, who has taken an oath to do no harm, who is faced with basically picking whether to try and save one person over another.  (And think of the ethical questions that raises.)
> 
> This is why there is fear.... (and why I've been worried for weeks about one of my kids, who has asthma and gets pneumonia very easily.  She will likely need intensive care if she gets this).  And why the draconian measures are in effect to slow the spread.



yes, disaster triage.  Exactly.  The death rate rises as the system becomes overwhelmed.
That's why countries try to delay the inevitable. If you can keep the number as low as possible, fewer people will die since they'll be able to get the appropriate treatment.

My daughter also has asthma and has her yearly winter battles with just the common cold.
She's 35 and is very nervous about going anywhere.
Though it didn't stop her from going to the movies last night to see Onward, which she said is fantastic. As did my son and both of their spouses.
The 4 of them actually drove really far away to find a small theater with almost no seats sold, to try to minimize the risk to the extent possible.
They both said that they feel it's one of the best pixars ever.



neurosx1983 said:


> Sorry about that. I know you guys tried to hold off. ABD baffles me with their ineptitude in not canceling this trip. What the heck are they waiting for? Do they think at this point its going to be a normal trip and everyone's going to be riding bikes at Versailles as if nothing is going on?
> 
> Come to Hawaii! The way I see it, Its going to be relaxing as hell and god knows we all need that after how things have been on the news (BTW while I'm there I'm not going to turn on the news)
> and at least you're still in the US.
> We're going to FS Hualalai...looks incredible. Aulani looks too crowded and not as nice. IMO.



OMG - you're going to FS Hualalai?
we need a trip report!!! and pictures!!!   i am totally jealous.
That place looks so amazing!  Four Seasons in general are typically wonderful hotels, but that one in particular makes me want to get on a plane and fly the billion hours it would take me to get there!
Have a great time!  and no news, no phone, no internet, nothing.
.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Wow, to my point about not wanting to chance travel in case someone in my family gets sick and how people react. This could be coming soon to the UK:  https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...will-told-self-isolate-uk-braces-coronavirus/


----------



## morgan98

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> Wow, to my point about not wanting to chance travel in case someone in my family gets sick and how people react. This could be coming soon to the UK:  https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...will-told-self-isolate-uk-braces-coronavirus/



Yeah, honestly this doesn't surprise me really.

Sunday I went to get my nails done and there was a woman there hacking up a lung.  I mean a really deep, hard cough.  She kept saying it was a sinus infection.  The nail technicians gave her water (twice) and even a mask.  I get that it very well could have been allergies, but in no way was that a "normal" cough.  And she seems annoyed.  Everyone breathed a sigh of relief when she left.

On the flight home last night, by husband said he was ultra sensitive to anyone coughing or otherwise appearing ill on the plane, but he said that luckily everyone seemed fine,


----------



## Candycane83

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> Wow, to my point about not wanting to chance travel in case someone in my family gets sick and how people react. This could be coming soon to the UK:  https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...will-told-self-isolate-uk-braces-coronavirus/





morgan98 said:


> Yeah, honestly this doesn't surprise me really.
> 
> Sunday I went to get my nails done and there was a woman there hacking up a lung.  I mean a really deep, hard cough.  She kept saying it was a sinus infection.  The nail technicians gave her water (twice) and even a mask.  I get that it very well could have been allergies, but in no way was that a "normal" cough.  And she seems annoyed.  Everyone breathed a sigh of relief when she left.
> 
> On the flight home last night, by husband said he was ultra sensitive to anyone coughing or otherwise appearing ill on the plane, but he said that luckily everyone seemed fine,


My anxiety is growing on this! DS has a slight cough right now which seems ok but what will happen when we are travelling...


----------



## lovetotravel

Candycane83 said:


> My anxiety is growing on this! DS has a slight cough right now which seems ok but what will happen when we are travelling...


Do you have cancel travel insurance? Is this something he can take a medication for? Perhaps see the doctor before you leave?

I worried about this too as my children sometimes get sick during travel. Traveling during this time is extra troublesome. I just wonder if people will want you to wear a mask? I also wonder if you start coughing in front of an immigration agent, they might pull people aside with symptoms and get them tested or quarantined? CR is where the American tourists are quarantined. I have no idea how employees are reacting to anyone sick. Perhaps someone who has recently traveled has experience?


----------



## Candycane83

lovetotravel said:


> Do you have cancel travel insurance? Is this something he can take a medication for? Perhaps see the doctor before you leave?


We have travel insurance but not cancel for any reason. He’s 5 and doesn’t have a fever so the only thing we use is honey and lemon. I’ll probably check the pharmacy today to see if there’s anything else. We’ll see a doctor too before we leave... probably see how he is today and tomorrow and decide what to do.


----------



## neurosx1983

Candycane83 said:


> We have travel insurance but not cancel for any reason. He’s 5 and doesn’t have a fever so the only thing we use is honey and lemon. I’ll probably check the pharmacy today to see if there’s anything else. We’ll see a doctor too before we leave... probably see how he is today and tomorrow and decide what to do.



Get the doc to write you a note to get out of the trip. I’m sure he or she will given what’s going on.


----------



## Candycane83

neurosx1983 said:


> Get the doc to write you a note to get out of the trip. I’m sure he or she will given what’s going on.


I’ll look into that! Thanks


----------



## lovetotravel

*TICKET ADVICE/EXPERIENCE FOR CHANGES AND CANCELLATION:*
If you have a ticket for an upcoming trip, you should check the current price for it (mine went down by $250+ each ticket) and if any changes to the itinerary have been made. Airlines are canceling and consolidating flights, so chances are great that your flight has been changed and might impact your travel plans. If there is a major change such as new airport or 90+ min time change, you may be able to cancel your flight and get a refund. Read the rules for changes for your particular airline. If you rebook a new flight you can fall under the flexible policy currently in place for the airlines, which is like a free insurance to change it if something happens last minute. So you can essentially get a refund, save money, and get a the new flexibly policy.

*@DisneyWishes14 *I rebooked my upcoming trip flights using my Delta eticket refund and cancelled my original flight due to a 90+ minute change with another airline that did not work for our schedule leaving us with less than an hour for an international layover (they were consolidating and canceling flights to meet reduced demand). I posted about this in the past. So what I learned now is if you rebook using credit from a cancelled ticket, the new policy does not apply because it's an "unused ticket," however, I was issued a voucher for the left over amount because my new ticket was less than the price of my original ticket. This voucher just needs to be redeemed by the original ticketed date and I can travel anytime after the original ticket date. This is a great scenario for us. I was able to use my eticket credit and got a new voucher that I can use for future travel with better restrictions. I really will book more Delta in the future because they really do understand their customers.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

Candycane83 said:


> We have travel insurance but not cancel for any reason. He’s 5 and doesn’t have a fever so the only thing we use is honey and lemon. I’ll probably check the pharmacy today to see if there’s anything else. We’ll see a doctor too before we leave... probably see how he is today and tomorrow and decide what to do.



I would see if you can get in to see a doctor today.  I had a cough/sore throat last week and I'm still trying to shake it off.  If your child's cough might develop into something else, I would seriously consider rescheduling and seeing if his doctor will write you a note that he can't travel at this time.  I, personally, would not want to be in a position to have to seek medical care in Costa Rica at this time.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

lovetotravel said:


> *TICKET ADVICE/EXPERIENCE FOR CHANGES AND CANCELLATION:*
> If you have a ticket for an upcoming trip, you should check the current price for it (mine went down by $250+ each ticket) and if any changes to the itinerary have been made. Airlines are canceling and consolidating flights, so chances are great that your flight has been changed and might impact your travel plans. If there is a major change such as new airport or 90+ min time change, you may be able to cancel your flight and get a refund. Read the rules for changes for your particular airline. If you rebook a new flight you can fall under the flexible policy currently in place for the airlines, which is like a free insurance to change it if something happens last minute. So you can essentially get a refund, save money, and get a the new flexibly policy.
> 
> *@DisneyWishes14 *I rebooked my upcoming trip flights using my Delta eticket refund and cancelled my original flight due to a 90+ minute change with another airline that did not work for our schedule leaving us with less than an hour for an international layover (they were consolidating and canceling flights to meet reduced demand). I posted about this in the past. So what I learned now is if you rebook using credit from a cancelled ticket, the new policy does not apply because it's an "unused ticket," however, I was issued a voucher for the left over amount because my new ticket was less than the price of my original ticket. This voucher just needs to be redeemed by the original ticketed date and I can travel anytime after the original ticket date. This is a great scenario for us. I was able to use my eticket credit and got a new voucher that I can use for future travel with better restrictions. I really will book more Delta in the future because they really do understand their customers.



That's fantastic!  Thank you so much for the information!


----------



## Calfan

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> I am so happy to hear this. I tagged you yesterday to ask, but I may have done it wrong  I've been thinking about him as I watch these unreal images coming out of of Italy. The BBC news is full of all kinds of possible measures if it rises like Italy. I'm glad we are flying out on Thursday, but I'm worried about DD20 who is supposed to fly home on 4/1 for part of her Spring Break. That could be right at the peak of this and I'm worried about her getting out as well as getting back in of the UK. My brother works at a big financial company in Los Angeles, and they were just all told to work from home for at least two weeks and not to travel.



DD and I are supposed to be flying home from Glasgow on 4/2 (assuming we make it there in the first place), so if we all get stuck, M will have an adult friend not too far away....


----------



## Calfan

Calfan said:


> DD and I are supposed to be flying home from Glasgow on 4/2 (assuming we make it there in the first place), so if we all get stuck, M will have an adult friend not too far away....



Not that M isn't an adult herself, but you know what I mean....


----------



## Candycane83

DisneyWishes14 said:


> I would see if you can get in to see a doctor today.  I had a cough/sore throat last week and I'm still trying to shake it off.  If your child's cough might develop into something else, I would seriously consider rescheduling and seeing if his doctor will write you a note that he can't travel at this time.  I, personally, would not want to be in a position to have to seek medical care in Costa Rica at this time.


That’s true. Although, I have my doubts a doctor would issue that note? I can’t see it. My husband’s doctor was very reluctant to give us a note after his eye was infected (note was to say he cannot do the cruise last year we had booked for last year). In any case I am going to monitor him between today and tomorrow to see. He coughed a little last night and this morning then hasn’t coughed since. Might be just dry at home... if he coughs some more, I’d work on moving the trip by tomorrow whatever the cost.


----------



## Lalovestotravel

I am scheduled on the UK/France tour leaving 3/27. My fear is a quarantine situation either there or in the US. I called ABD and they do not have an answer to my concerns. Has anyone found out anything?


----------



## sayhello

Lalovestotravel said:


> I am scheduled on the UK/France tour leaving 3/27. My fear is a quarantine situation either there or in the US. I called ABD and they do not have an answer to my concerns. Has anyone found out anything?


Not that I've heard.  ABD is handling things on a case-by-case basis as far as we can tell.


morgan98 said:


> Yeah, honestly this doesn't surprise me really.
> 
> Sunday I went to get my nails done and there was a woman there hacking up a lung.  I mean a really deep, hard cough.  She kept saying it was a sinus infection.  The nail technicians gave her water (twice) and even a mask.  I get that it very well could have been allergies, but in no way was that a "normal" cough.  And she seems annoyed.  Everyone breathed a sigh of relief when she left.
> 
> On the flight home last night, by husband said he was ultra sensitive to anyone coughing or otherwise appearing ill on the plane, but he said that luckily everyone seemed fine,


I have a coworker with bad allergies, and she has had this kind of a hacking cough on and off for years.  It sounds like she's coughing up a lung.  We're just used to it by now.  So it is possible.  She gets kind of annoyed when new people ask her if she's OK, because she's been dealing with it for so long.  So I kind of get where this woman is coming from.  You can't stop living because of allergies.  But times are different right now, and I suspect she's going to have to learn to deal.

Sayhello


----------



## neurosx1983

Lalovestotravel said:


> I am scheduled on the UK/France tour leaving 3/27. My fear is a quarantine situation either there or in the US. I called ABD and they do not have an answer to my concerns. Has anyone found out anything?



Nope. They haven’t even cancelled the trip this week that a couple of us here are scheduled on.


----------



## Lalovestotravel

neurosx1983 said:


> Nope. They haven’t even cancelled the trip this week that a couple of us here are scheduled on.


Our friends live in Paris and there is talk of them closing the borders. I want to know what ABD has in place if this happens while we are there. Also, do they pay for accommodations or is that on us?  I feel like the lack of communication is what is making me most nervous. Other travel companies like Backroads and Viking are allowing their customers to cancel or postpone at no charge. Why a conglomerate like Disney is keeping us “in the dark” is beyond me.


----------



## laceltris3

I think I have a plan for what we may do. 

Right now we are scheduled for a river cruise on the Siene in late June/early July, and have airfare purchased with Air France last August. 

Under Tauck's policy, I can actually change to the identical dates for their Alaska land trip, which is almost exactly the same cost and has availability. 

As for airfare, I had almost resigned myself to losing the $$$ I paid for business class for the 5 of us. Right now, I could cancel or change and get a voucher for Air France, but for flights through May 31 they are giving vouchers for flights with Air France, KLM or partners. I think if I can wait out an Air France policy change effective through June 30, I can use the airfare to fly Delta to Alaska. I don't even care about the change fee, really. I just need to have a credit for use outside the Air France universe. I think that an extension to June 30 is definitely coming. 

Do you all think that works?


----------



## disneyholic family

so another update about italy -
another doctor was interviewed on our news station here.
he said that the nurses in his hospital in northern italy practically haven't stopped crying...
they are now faced with not just daily, but hourly decisions as to who they won't treat...
these are patients that if the hospital weren't so overloaded, they would be able to treat and some if not most of them could be saved, but they don't have the equipment to keep them alive, so they're letting them die...
and the nurses can't stop crying..
the doctor (quite young from how he looked), said he's never had to do this in his life, though of course, he always knew it was a possibility in a situation like this....
he said, 'first, do no harm' isn't a possibility in this situation...


and this is what people fail to understand.....the disease on its own can be survived by most....
even those who become serious can be nursed back to health..
but if there are too many patients, there just aren't enough critical care facilities to do the job and so the death toll goes up..
this is the purpose of delaying the spread..
.


----------



## disneyholic family

laceltris3 said:


> I think I have a plan for what we may do.
> 
> Right now we are scheduled for a river cruise on the Siene in late June/early July, and have airfare purchased with Air France last August.
> 
> Under Tauck's policy, I can actually change to the identical dates for their Alaska land trip, which is almost exactly the same cost and has availability.
> 
> As for airfare, I had almost resigned myself to losing the $$$ I paid for business class for the 5 of us. Right now, I could cancel or change and get a voucher for Air France, but for flights through May 31 they are giving vouchers for flights with Air France, KLM or partners. I think if I can wait out an Air France policy change effective through June 30, I can use the airfare to fly Delta to Alaska. I don't even care about the change fee, really. I just need to have a credit for use outside the Air France universe. I think that an extension to June 30 is definitely coming.
> 
> Do you all think that works?



even though your tickets are from air france, you could try calling delta now and see what they say..
when we fly to detroit, we always buy tickets from KLM, but the flights are all on delta.
When we have problems, we contact delta, not KLM and somehow delta is able to make the changes for us even though it's a KLM ticket.

I've found over the years that Delta tries to be very helpful. And as i said, we almost always have a KLM ticket, not delta (why?  business class is crazy cheap from KLM in comparison to  delta for the very same seat on the very same delta plane).

as an example, my mom flew to detroit last july, business class on delta but the ticket was from KLM.
She got sick and was hospitalized.  We had no idea when she would be able to fly back, so we called delta (not KLM, we NEVER call KLM).
Delta was nicer than nice, canceled the return and said that we had a year to fly her back. And they waived the change fee.
So she's sitting with an open ticket waiting for the doctors ok for her to fly back here.
As  i said, Delta has been very helpful and forthcoming over the years (and northwest before them).

long story short, call delta and tell them your story.  Maybe they can already help now.

.


----------



## sayhello

Lalovestotravel said:


> Our friends live in Paris and there is talk of them closing the borders. I want to know what ABD has in place if this happens while we are there. Also, do they pay for accommodations or is that on us?  I feel like the lack of communication is what is making me most nervous. Other travel companies like Backroads and Viking are allowing their customers to cancel or postpone at no charge. Why a conglomerate like Disney is keeping us “in the dark” is beyond me.


If something happens while you are actually on your trip and your itinerary changes (like you can't get into France) ABD absolutely pays for the new accommodations.  I know several people whose Japan trips and China trips were affected by bad weather, and changing the flights, changing transportation, changing hotels, setting up alternative activities, etc, was all handled by ABD and was seamless & transparent to the Guests (well, except for the fact that they weren't where they expected to be).  That's definitely one of the pluses of traveling with a company like ABD.

(And actually, this would all be true if something happens *before* your trip leaves, too).

Sayhello


----------



## disneyholic family

and here's the daily numbers update since it's end of day in europe.

Italy's one day death toll is shocking.
168 people died of corona today in italy and we know from what they're reporting, that they're simply no longer even bothering to treat anyone over 65 or younger with pre-existing conditions.
If you don't find that disturbing, you have a heart of stone.
To think about just leaving people to die.
I'm not saying anything against the doctors.
I know they have no choice, but it's so upsetting, i'm at a loss for words.
i can completely understand why the nurses are unable to stop crying.
And they have another 733 in critical condition, so presumably that will go up.
That one day death toll is the highest one so far in any one day - taking them up to total deaths of 631.
And total confirmed cases of 10,149.

as for France, total confirmed cases is now 1,784  having increased today by 372
the UK is up to 373, with 52 new cases today.

spain is also shooting up there, with confirmed cases now at 1,690 with the increase today of 459

but none of them have reached the staggering death toll of Italy (other than china of course)

.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

morgan98 said:


> Yeah, honestly this doesn't surprise me really.
> 
> Sunday I went to get my nails done and there was a woman there hacking up a lung.  I mean a really deep, hard cough.  She kept saying it was a sinus infection.  The nail technicians gave her water (twice) and even a mask.  I get that it very well could have been allergies, but in no way was that a "normal" cough.  And she seems annoyed.  Everyone breathed a sigh of relief when she left.
> 
> On the flight home last night, by husband said he was ultra sensitive to anyone coughing or otherwise appearing ill on the plane, but he said that luckily everyone seemed fine,



Same experience we've been having everywhere we go. On train today again there was someone coughing and half the car shot them a look. 



Calfan said:


> DD and I are supposed to be flying home from Glasgow on 4/2 (assuming we make it there in the first place), so if we all get stuck, M will have an adult friend not too far away....





Calfan said:


> Not that M isn't an adult herself, but you know what I mean....


That's great! I just told her. I suspect things are going to bet shut down before that though. The UK papers are suggesting soon. This is the DM which should be taken with a grain of salt, LOL, but the graphs are good. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...virus-outbreak-bad-Italys-two-weeks-time.html


----------



## Calfan

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> That's great! I just told her. I suspect things are going to bet shut down before that though. The UK papers are suggesting soon. This is the DM which should be taken with a grain of salt, LOL, but the graphs are good. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...virus-outbreak-bad-Italys-two-weeks-time.html



Yes, I'm not terribly optimistic that we are going to be able to make the trip.  DD is going to be really disappointed, but at least she has seen both schools so won't have to make a blind decision.

On the other hand, Japan seems to be doing quite a good job with containment, so I am cautiously optimistic that we'll still be going there in June.

The situation in Italy is just so so sad...


----------



## neurosx1983

sayhello said:


> If something happens while you are actually on your trip and your itinerary changes (like you can't get into France) ABD absolutely pays for the new accommodations.  I know several people whose Japan trips and China trips were affected by bad weather, and changing the flights, changing transportation, changing hotels, setting up alternative activities, etc, was all handled by ABD and was seamless & transparent to the Guests (well, except for the fact that they weren't where they expected to be).  That's definitely one of the pluses of traveling with a company like ABD.
> 
> (And actually, this would all be true if something happens *before* your trip leaves, too).
> 
> Sayhello



I actually totally agree with this. I think if something happens DURING a trip, you wouldn't want to be with anyone other than ABD.
One of our guides  in Italy told us a story of a group on the London/Paris trip where the eurostar had broken down the day they were to go to France.  Disney arranged for a private jet to take them to Paris instead.

So yes, with actual emergencies I think they would be great. My problem with them now is that there actually is a crisis going on and they're STILL going through with a trip. That's negligent in my opinion.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Calfan said:


> Yes, I'm not terribly optimistic that we are going to be able to make the trip.  DD is going to be really disappointed, but at least she has seen both schools so won't have to make a blind decision.
> 
> On the other hand, Japan seems to be doing quite a good job with containment, so I am cautiously optimistic that we'll still be going there in June.
> 
> The situation in Italy is just so so sad...


Totally agree about Japan. They seem to have done a great job. It would be such a bummer to have to cancel the Games as well. I bet they also haven't had runs on TP  I told my husband this is the excuse we need to get one of those toilets, LOL. 

The Italy situation is almost unbelievable. So terrible and sad. I found out a friend of mine has an elderly uncle there who has died. Heart goes out to all involved.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

neurosx1983 said:


> I actually totally agree with this. I think if something happens DURING a trip, you wouldn't want to be with anyone other than ABD.
> One of our guides  in Italy told us a story of a group on the London/Paris trip where the eurostar had broken down the day they were to go to France.  Disney arranged for a private jet to take them to Paris instead.
> 
> So yes, with actual emergencies I think they would be great. My problem with them now is that there actually is a crisis going on and they're STILL going through with a trip. That's negligent in my opinion.


I agree with you on this. I had a situation on our China ABD that they didn't handle well (it had to do with a typhoon projected to hit HK the day our trip was ending -- most of us know they count departure day as an ABD day). So while I have confidence about how they handle things while the trip is going on, I know from past experience that once they say 'bye' to you the night before departure day, they are of no assistance at all. That includes both the guides and the 1-800 emergency number they provide you with. On our December Peru ABD Rudy didn't show up for our departure (he said he would); our luggage wasn't brought down and the front desk didn't have breakfast boxes for dd and I -- they said ABD didn't order them). I was able to get things sorted out, but it delayed our bus to the airport by at least 20 minutes (and held up the 3 other families that were on the same bus) -- it probably would've taken much less time if Rudy had come down; Ken, the other guide, left the night before. I don't know why they consider this the last day when they sent a guide home before the trip is technically over, but I digress.

I am so sorry that they haven't cancelled your trip yet. I am both shocked and saddened at how they are handling it.

I called Quark this morning regarding moving our early June trip to next year and was told that wasn't possible. They said they are not a 'cruise' company, rather an 'expedition' company, thus not feeling any pressure to heed the Cdn and US government warnings re: citizens taking cruises.  Of course they said I had the choice of if I wanted to go, but since my PIF was early February, I would be out the cost of the cruise. Also no luck with Scott Dunn -- they have referred me to their "department handling COVID-19" issues; I still haven't heard from anyone and don't expect to anytime soon. I am going to call our travel insurer and see if dd's severe asthma would be enough of a reason for them to refund our OOP money, but I don't have much hope with this route. From now on I will only purchase travel insurance with "cancel for any reason" coverage.

A close friend of mine had a river cruise booked directly with AMA Waterways this summer and was able to get her $800.00 deposit refunded in full yesterday. She filed a dispute with AmEx platinum for her internal flights with EasyJet and the other budget airline that she booked an internal flight with.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> Totally agree about Japan. They seem to have done a great job. It would be such a bummer to have to cancel the Games as well. I bet they also haven't had runs on TP  I told my husband this is the excuse we need to get one of those toilets, LOL.
> 
> The Italy situation is almost unbelievable. So terrible and sad. I found out a friend of mine has an elderly uncle there who has died. Heart goes out to all involved.


I found out this morning a girl (who I know casually) at the gym returned from southern Italy on the weekend. She has been at the gym every day since she returned and says there were no cases in the region where she was so no one needs to worry. Even still at spin class today no one sat on the bike she was on yesterday and everyone in spin class was talking about her (she wasn't in the class). I wish she would self-quarantine. Her husband is a physician, so hopefully he would encourage her to stay at home if he thought she posed a threat to anyone. Word at the club is that no one is happy she's wandering around the gym, socializing and taking regular classes. I feel badly for her, but I wish she would stay at home for at least a week.

I just got a lengthy e-mail from our club and they are specifically asking anyone who has returned from a level 3 region to stay home for 14 days. I wonder if she'll be at the gym tomorrow? I am very impressed with their extensive measures to combat transmission.


----------



## lovetotravel

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I agree with you on this. I had a situation on our China ABD that they didn't handle well (it had to do with a typhoon projected to hit HK the day our trip was ending -- most of us know they count departure day as an ABD day). So while I have confidence about how they handle things while the trip is going on, I know from past experience that once they say 'bye' to you the night before departure day, they are of no assistance at all. That includes both the guides and the 1-800 emergency number they provide you with. On our December Peru ABD Rudy didn't show up for our departure (he said he would); our luggage wasn't brought down and the front desk didn't have breakfast boxes for dd and I -- they said ABD didn't order them). I was able to get things sorted out, but it delayed our bus to the airport by at least 20 minutes (and held up the 3 other families that were on the same bus) -- it probably would've taken much less time if Rudy had come down; Ken, the other guide, left the night before. I don't know why they consider this the last day when they sent a guide home before the trip is technically over, but I digress.
> 
> I am so sorry that they haven't cancelled your trip yet. I am both shocked and saddened at how they are handling it.
> 
> I called Quark this morning regarding moving our early June trip to next year and was told that wasn't possible. They said they are not a 'cruise' company, rather an 'expedition' company, thus not feeling any pressure to heed the Cdn and US government warnings re: citizens taking cruises.  Of course they said I had the choice of if I wanted to go, but since my PIF was early February, I would be out the cost of the cruise. Also no luck with Scott Dunn -- they have referred me to their "department handling COVID-19" issues; I still haven't heard from anyone and don't expect to anytime soon. I am going to call our travel insurer and see if dd's severe asthma would be enough of a reason for them to refund our OOP money, but I don't have much hope with this route. From now on I will only purchase travel insurance with "cancel for any reason" coverage.
> 
> A close friend of mine had a river cruise booked directly with AMA Waterways this summer and was able to get her $800.00 deposit refunded in full yesterday. She filed a dispute with AmEx platinum for her internal flights with EasyJet and the other budget airline that she booked an internal flight with.


I always buy cancel insurance (not ABD). But what a pain is it to use. I have two trips still to fill out paperwork for and I’m doing all that work for about $400 in refunds. I’ve found that most companies will refund for COVID-19. Of the 2 I canceled, one was an ABD before PIF and the other was OYO. I actually lost less on the OYO because I was able to cancel all before final payments which were typically 2 days before a trip. I feel like OYO as much of a hassle as it was to cancel a bunch of tours, it was more flexible because of better cancellation policies.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

lovetotravel said:


> I always buy cancel insurance (not ABD). But what a pain is it to use. I have two trips still to fill out paperwork for and I’m doing all that work for about $400 in refunds. I’ve found that most companies will refund for COVID-19. Of the 2 I canceled, one was an ABD before PIF and the other was OYO. I actually lost less on the OYO because I was able to cancel all before final payments which were typically 2 days before a trip. I feel like OYO as much of a hassle as it was to cancel a bunch of tours, it was more flexible because of better cancellation policies.


Did you purchase "cancel for any reason" insurance? I didn't pay the extra money for this. I have good travel insurance through AIG, but I'm not sure if I can cancel for COVID-19. I am calling them now.


----------



## disneyholic family

lovetotravel said:


> I always buy cancel insurance (not ABD). But what a pain is it to use. I have two trips still to fill out paperwork for and I’m doing all that work for about $400 in refunds. I’ve found that most companies will refund for COVID-19. Of the 2 I canceled, one was an ABD before PIF and the other was OYO. I actually lost less on the OYO because I was able to cancel all before final payments which were typically 2 days before a trip. I feel like OYO as much of a hassle as it was to cancel a bunch of tours, it was more flexible because of better cancellation policies.



i've never bought "cancel for any reason" insurance as it's very expensive.
i do of course buy  regular travel/medical insurance that always includes medivac and search and rescue 

Interestingly, two of the largest insurance companies here for travel medical insurance will no longer provide coverage to the USA.
I heard the announcement, but i haven't gone in to read why.  I'm guessing that their underwriters are unwilling to take on the corona uncertainty.
.


----------



## lovetotravel

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> Did you purchase "cancel for any reason" insurance? I didn't pay the extra money for this. I have good travel insurance through AIG, but I'm not sure if I can cancel for COVID-19. I am calling them now.


Yes cancel for any reason.


----------



## lovetotravel

disneyholic family said:


> i've never bought "cancel for any reason" insurance as it's very expensive.
> i do of course buy  regular travel/medical insurance that always includes medivac and search and rescue
> 
> Interestingly, two of the largest insurance companies here for travel medical insurance will no longer provide coverage to the USA.
> I heard the announcement, but i haven't gone in to read why.  I'm guessing that their underwriters are unwilling to take on the corona uncertainty.
> .


Yes I agree it’s expensive. It is usually about $400-700 more than comprehensive for us, depending on the cost of the trip. I’m sure they have a way to calculate risks based on factors.


----------



## disneyholic family

correction to my earlier post (which i've since edited).

the number of cases in france rose today by 372, for a total confirmed of 1,784
.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I found out this morning a girl (who I know casually) at the gym returned from southern Italy on the weekend. She has been at the gym every day since she returned and says there were no cases in the region where she was so no one needs to worry. Even still at spin class today no one sat on the bike she was on yesterday and everyone in spin class was talking about her (she wasn't in the class). I wish she would self-quarantine. Her husband is a physician, so hopefully he would encourage her to stay at home if he thought she posed a threat to anyone. Word at the club is that no one is happy she's wandering around the gym, socializing and taking regular classes. I feel badly for her, but I wish she would stay at home for at least a week.


Wow. Just wow. We actually received an email from our club a few days ago that anyone who has traveled abroad not use the club facilities for 14 days. We have a ton of older members so very understandable.


----------



## vakamalua

We were scheduled to give Virgin Voyages cruise line a try in July.  We called and cancelled (before PIF) and they said, 'No Problem' and converted our non-refundable deposit to a cruise credit we can use up until July 2021.  That's good customer service, ABD.


----------



## AddictedtoTravel

I go to quite a few conferences/national meetings for work. So far this week three huge conferences have canceled (Seattle, Los Angeles and Denver). In each scenario the organizations are going to reimburse all paid event costs. The airlines are waving change/cancel fees.

I understand the "don't panic" approach, business as usual but it just seems to me that ABD should let the clients chose their comfort level and should not penalize them. I can't imagine how horrible it would be for a client to get sick while on a trip that could have been delayed for a future date. I realize there is risk in travel, always, but the anxiety that this appears to be causing should help ABD pause and come to the right decision.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I agree with you on this. I had a situation on our China ABD that they didn't handle well (it had to do with a typhoon projected to hit HK the day our trip was ending -- most of us know they count departure day as an ABD day). So while I have confidence about how they handle things while the trip is going on, I know from past experience that once they say 'bye' to you the night before departure day, they are of no assistance at all. That includes both the guides and the 1-800 emergency number they provide you with. On our December Peru ABD Rudy didn't show up for our departure (he said he would); our luggage wasn't brought down and the front desk didn't have breakfast boxes for dd and I -- they said ABD didn't order them). I was able to get things sorted out, but it delayed our bus to the airport by at least 20 minutes (and held up the 3 other families that were on the same bus) -- it probably would've taken much less time if Rudy had come down; Ken, the other guide, left the night before. I don't know why they consider this the last day when they sent a guide home before the trip is technically over, but I digress.
> 
> I am so sorry that they haven't cancelled your trip yet. I am both shocked and saddened at how they are handling it.
> 
> I called Quark this morning regarding moving our early June trip to next year and was told that wasn't possible. They said they are not a 'cruise' company, rather an 'expedition' company, thus not feeling any pressure to heed the Cdn and US government warnings re: citizens taking cruises.  Of course they said I had the choice of if I wanted to go, but since my PIF was early February, I would be out the cost of the cruise. Also no luck with Scott Dunn -- they have referred me to their "department handling COVID-19" issues; I still haven't heard from anyone and don't expect to anytime soon. I am going to call our travel insurer and see if dd's severe asthma would be enough of a reason for them to refund our OOP money, but I don't have much hope with this route. From now on I will only purchase travel insurance with "cancel for any reason" coverage.
> 
> *A close friend of mine had a river cruise booked directly with AMA Waterways this summer and was able to get her $800.00 deposit refunded in full yesterday. *She filed a dispute with AmEx platinum for her internal flights with EasyJet and the other budget airline that she booked an internal flight with.



I've been trying to keep up with AMA's policies throughout all of this as we have the ABD Rhine booked for late summer.  I assume ABD can't sail without AMA, so if AMA stops or limits sailings, I would assume ABD would issue refunds or let us move our payments?


----------



## sayhello

DisneyWishes14 said:


> I've been trying to keep up with AMA's policies throughout all of this as we have the ABD Rhine booked for late summer.  I assume ABD can't sail without AMA, so if AMA stops or limits sailings, I would assume ABD would issue refunds or let us move our payments?


Interesting point.  I'd assume you are correct, and if AmaWaterways cancels a rivercruise, ABD would have to cancel the ABD on that cruise.  You can't rivercruise without a ship. 

Have you seen anything on their website?  I can't find anything.

Sayhello


----------



## DisneyWishes14

sayhello said:


> Interesting point.  I'd assume you are correct, and if AmaWaterways cancels a rivercruise, ABD would have to cancel the ABD on that cruise.  You can't rivercruise without a ship.
> 
> Have you seen anything on their website?  I can't find anything.
> 
> Sayhello



I've only seen things on third-party travel sites.  This is what I found on thepointsguy:

*AmaWaterways*
AmaWaterways is lifting restrictions to let passengers on any voyage add the line’s cancel-for-any-reason policy, Travel Waiver Plus, to their booking. The policy, which costs $80 to $175, allows passengers to cancel a cruise for any reason up until 24 hours before departure. Passengers who cancel under the policy will receive a future cruise credit that is valid for 24 months. Normally, a Travel Waiver Plus policy only can be booked in conjunction with AmaWaterways’ Cruise Protection Plan and at the time final payment for a cruise is made. AmaWaterways is lifting the restrictions for existing bookings that already are paid in full through March 15 so passengers can add the policy to their reservations.

That's great if you booked directly through AMA!  Probably not very promising for ABD.  I'm really hoping this is something we won't even be thinking about in late summer.

In the meantime, my SoCal/DL PIF is in less than two weeks . . . . not sure what I'm going to do with that one.


----------



## Woodview

disneyholic family said:


> correction to my earlier post (which i've since edited).
> 
> the number of cases in france rose today by 372, for a total confirmed of 1,784
> .




  As of 10.30 Pm        BBC  News  said

Italy        10,600   cases        ..............  630  dead

Spain     1,600                      cases

Germany    1,500      cases



 U.S.A            NEW York   area              many cases


----------



## sayhello

For those still going on the upcoming London/Paris ABD, looks like you're going to have Jennae as one of your Adventure Guides!  She just posted that she's on her way to London!

Sayhello


----------



## Cliffside

DisneyWishes14 said:


> I've only seen things on third-party travel sites.  This is what I found on thepointsguy:
> 
> *AmaWaterways*
> AmaWaterways is lifting restrictions to let passengers on any voyage add the line’s cancel-for-any-reason policy, Travel Waiver Plus, to their booking. The policy, which costs $80 to $175, allows passengers to cancel a cruise for any reason up until 24 hours before departure. Passengers who cancel under the policy will receive a future cruise credit that is valid for 24 months. Normally, a Travel Waiver Plus policy only can be booked in conjunction with AmaWaterways’ Cruise Protection Plan and at the time final payment for a cruise is made. AmaWaterways is lifting the restrictions for existing bookings that already are paid in full through March 15 so passengers can add the policy to their reservations.
> 
> That's great if you booked directly through AMA!  Probably not very promising for ABD.  I'm really hoping this is something we won't even be thinking about in late summer.
> 
> In the meantime, my SoCal/DL PIF is in less than two weeks . . . . not sure what I'm going to do with that one.





DisneyWishes14 said:


> I've only seen things on third-party travel sites.  This is what I found on thepointsguy:
> 
> *AmaWaterways*
> AmaWaterways is lifting restrictions to let passengers on any voyage add the line’s cancel-for-any-reason policy, Travel Waiver Plus, to their booking. The policy, which costs $80 to $175, allows passengers to cancel a cruise for any reason up until 24 hours before departure. Passengers who cancel under the policy will receive a future cruise credit that is valid for 24 months. Normally, a Travel Waiver Plus policy only can be booked in conjunction with AmaWaterways’ Cruise Protection Plan and at the time final payment for a cruise is made. AmaWaterways is lifting the restrictions for existing bookings that already are paid in full through March 15 so passengers can add the policy to their reservations.
> 
> That's great if you booked directly through AMA!  Probably not very promising for ABD.  I'm really hoping this is something we won't even be thinking about in late summer.
> 
> In the meantime, my SoCal/DL PIF is in less than two weeks . . . . not sure what I'm going to do with that one.



That is so frustrating. I can’t understand why ABD is not doing anything. It makes me wish I had booked directly with AmaWaterways for my Danube cruise in June. It seems like most of their competitors are doing something as well DCL.  I thought ABD would be a leader in customer service. I guess I was wrong.

I am in the 50% penalty phase now and don’t know what to do. DH wants to wait it out.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

sayhello said:


> For those still going on the upcoming London/Paris ABD, looks like you're going to have Jennae as one of your Adventure Guides!  She just posted that she's on her way to London!
> 
> Sayhello



I was just coming here to post the same thing!  Wow.  She said she has a whole row to herself on the plane . . . I'm surprised this ABD is actually going as scheduled.



Cliffside said:


> That is so frustrating. I can’t understand why ABD is not doing anything. *It makes me wish I had booked directly with AmaWaterways for my Danube cruise in June.* It seems like most of their competitors are doing something as well DCL.  I thought ABD would be a leader in customer service. I guess I was wrong.
> 
> I am in the 50% penalty phase now and don’t know what to do. DH wants to wait it out.



I had the exact same thought.  I had priced out AMA prior to booking the ABD and went with the ABD because I thought DS12 would enjoy it more.  I'm sure he will IF we actually go at this point!  We only have our deposit down (I guess I shouldn't say "only" as it's a few thousand $$, ugh) and I guess I'll switch dates if we have to.


----------



## neurosx1983

sayhello said:


> For those still going on the upcoming London/Paris ABD, looks like you're going to have Jennae as one of your Adventure Guides!  She just posted that she's on her way to London!
> 
> Sayhello



If she’s on her way then that’s almost a certainty that they’re not going to cancel. 

Let’s all give a collective shout out to our  travel agents that have spent several hours on hold( and are still on hold) with Disney in all of their forms today...so we didn’t have to. Elaine from Dreams- thank you!

Also, wait times have gotten so ridiculous on the phone with airlines. British airways has a message that straight up says “our lines are too busy now, call back later”...you can’t even be on hold.


----------



## lovetotravel

neurosx1983 said:


> If she’s on her way then that’s almost a certainty that they’re not going to cancel.
> 
> Let’s all give a collective shout out to our  travel agents that have spent several hours on hold( and are still on hold) with Disney in all of their forms today...so we didn’t have to. Elaine from Dreams- thank you!
> 
> Also, wait times have gotten so ridiculous on the phone with airlines. British airways has a message that straight up says “our lines are too busy now, call back later”...you can’t even be on hold.


Waited 4 hours for airlines and 30 min for ABD in past 2 days.

ABD said they try to cancel trips as soon as they can determine to cancel per CDC guidelines and other deciding authorities. The minimum they cancelled is a week out. I doubt they would cancel the week of the trip unless it was a CDC level 3 overnight since people are enroute. It's important to let them know if you will be having a pre-trip so they know where you are.

I've never thought that ABD would be the risky travel company to book with. I've always booked with them because I felt otherwise. However, Tauck, AMA, DCL, and Delta have disproved my theory. I have gained lot of respect for those companies now.


----------



## neurosx1983

Quick tip: I called British Airways Hong Kong office (randomly) and someone picked up in 5 minutes. That's a tip in case the US lines are bogged down. Try a foreign office.


----------



## lovetotravel

neurosx1983 said:


> Quick tip: I called British Airways Hong Kong office (randomly) and someone picked up in 5 minutes. That's a tip in case the US lines are bogged down. Try a foreign office.


Were you able to get a refund?


----------



## neurosx1983

No...they told me they can't do anything and I have to call Amex directly (where I booked it). Their wait time is several hours at this point...


----------



## Angell

Hi everyone. My family of four is booked on AbD Italy - Rome, Florence, Venice  starting on June 5. It ends on the 12th and we are to board the DCL Magic on June 13 in Italy for the Greek cruise. AbD booked our pre-night stay in Rome and our postnight stay in Venice prior to the cruise.

DCL, as you might already know, has given us the green light to cancel and rebook up to 20 months out and refund us a credit. Anything over the price of the new booking would be available as onboard credit only.

I’ve heard through the grapevine that AbD has canceled the Amalfi Coast tour that begins on May 31. After multiple phone calls, they will not budge on letting me know about the June 5 Italy tour. They have said that they are less likely to cancel than DCL because the nature of small group tours is less inherently risky than that of a cruise ship.

50 % of the tour takes place in the northern region hardest hit by the virus. With all of Italy now on lockdown, I don’t know why they haven’t canceled.


----------



## AquaDame

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> Totally agree about Japan. They seem to have done a great job. It would be such a bummer to have to cancel the Games as well. I bet they also haven't had runs on TP  I told my husband this is the excuse we need to get one of those toilets, LOL.
> 
> The Italy situation is almost unbelievable. So terrible and sad. I found out a friend of mine has an elderly uncle there who has died. Heart goes out to all involved.



I've heard the qualifiers have been rough given everything going on. Still sounds like they may be delayed but I agree it seems like they've been doing a good job of keeping numbers down (at least comparatively!). My coworker and others have said there IS a run on TP there though, as an aside. He checks every time he goes to a store and finally found a package of rose printed TP that smelled of roses. He said he was not THAT desperate and did not buy it.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

AquaDame said:


> My coworker and others have said there IS a run on TP there though, as an aside. He checks every time he goes to a store and finally found a package of rose printed TP that smelled of roses. He said he was not THAT desperate and did not buy it.


OMG you are kidding me? Japan's toilets are so awesome, I can't imagine why. But dying on the rose scented. Too funny!


----------



## morgan98

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I found out this morning a girl (who I know casually) at the gym returned from southern Italy on the weekend. She has been at the gym every day since she returned and says there were no cases in the region where she was so no one needs to worry. Even still at spin class today no one sat on the bike she was on yesterday and everyone in spin class was talking about her (she wasn't in the class). I wish she would self-quarantine. Her husband is a physician, so hopefully he would encourage her to stay at home if he thought she posed a threat to anyone. Word at the club is that no one is happy she's wandering around the gym, socializing and taking regular classes. I feel badly for her, but I wish she would stay at home for at least a week.
> 
> I just got a lengthy e-mail from our club and they are specifically asking anyone who has returned from a level 3 region to stay home for 14 days. I wonder if she'll be at the gym tomorrow? I am very impressed with their extensive measures to combat transmission.



Yeah, this is the kind of stuff that makes you wonder.  My husband was not in a harder impacted region either and he did not have much heavy social contact.  However, he did take trains twice and he flew.  You never know who you come into contact with.  Like I sad before, he is here at home and I am working from home.  Luckily, we have a great home gym and we can still run/walk outside by ourselves too.

We specifically don't want to be those people that a case is tied too.  Unfortunately, you don't know about the symptoms.  Plus, even in Italy, yes they have tested a lot more people than we have in the US.  But many of those people have been in the harder impacted regions. People were still traveling about Italy.  There is some undetected in every region.


----------



## carpenta

We are suppose to do a Tauck trip London and Paris trip in April but who wants to go if all the "tourist" areas are closed such as the museums......Travel all that way and look out a hotel window and get sealed in your home when returned? I don't think so....


----------



## Cliffside

Angell said:


> Hi everyone. My family of four is booked on AbD Italy - Rome, Florence, Venice  starting on June 5. It ends on the 12th and we are to board the DCL Magic on June 13 in Italy for the Greek cruise. AbD booked our pre-night stay in Rome and our postnight stay in Venice prior to the cruise.
> 
> DCL, as you might already know, has given us the green light to cancel and rebook up to 20 months out and refund us a credit. Anything over the price of the new booking would be available as onboard credit only.
> 
> I’ve heard through the grapevine that AbD has canceled the Amalfi Coast tour that begins on May 31. After multiple phone calls, they will not budge on letting me know about the June 5 Italy tour. They have said that they are less likely to cancel than DCL because the nature of small group tours is less inherently risky than that of a cruise ship.
> 
> 50 % of the tour takes place in the northern region hardest hit by the virus. With all of Italy now on lockdown, I don’t know why they haven’t canceled.


Yes it seems that ABD is inexcusably slow in their response to this worldwide crisis. We are booked on the first Danube River Cruise and they have not been at all flexible with their cancellation policy, even though the state department and the CDC has advised against traveling by cruise ship. I know it is not a ocean liner but there has been a quarantined river Cruise in Egypt. Besides those warnings Amawaterways is allowing a generous cancellation policy whose ships they are using. Other river Cruise companies are following suit.

I also don’t understand how they are not being more flexible for their Italy adventures based on what is going on there.

I hope they improve their customer service and start caring more about their clients.


----------



## Lalovestotravel

carpenta said:


> We are suppose to do a Tauck trip London and Paris trip in April but who wants to go if all the "tourist" areas are closed such as the museums......Travel all that way and look out a hotel window and get sealed in your home when returned? I don't think so....


From speaking to our friends who live in Paris, it sounds like they may become a level 3 in a matter of days. She said that they have cases above 1800 now and remember France is the size of Texas. However, it sounds like a level 3 will not stop ABD from canceling the trip. I am so perplexed as to why they are not canceling or postponing these trips. Crazy!


----------



## disneyholic family

I am completely stunned by ABD that they're going ahead with the UK/France tour this week.
Every authority has said do not travel if you don't have to.
Every authority.
Who is ABD?  Hello?  Anybody home?

My alma mater, Johns Hopkins, not exactly lightweights, have cancelled just about everything.
And we're not talking just travel, though that too.
All in person classes have been cancelled and they are switching to remote instruction.   All in person classes cancelled.  Not some. All.
Undergraduate, graduate, professional.  All.

and all non-essential international travel is prohibited.
And domestic travel is strongly discouraged.

And they've told all students who left for spring break to stay home.
Do not return to campus.

Hello?  ABD?  Anybody listening?

.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

neurosx1983 said:


> If she’s on her way then that’s almost a certainty that they’re not going to cancel.
> 
> Let’s all give a collective shout out to our  travel agents that have spent several hours on hold( and are still on hold) with Disney in all of their forms today...so we didn’t have to. Elaine from Dreams- thank you!
> 
> Also, wait times have gotten so ridiculous on the phone with airlines. British airways has a message that straight up says “our lines are too busy now, call back later”...you can’t even be on hold.



Just wanted to add, I've had good luck with both Delta and Jetblue over the past few days.  Delta has a callback feature, so even if your wait time is 3 hours, you can simply record your name and they will hold your place in the que and call you back so you aren't physically on hold the whole time.  I've also found their customer service agents to be incredibly knowledgable of the new cancellation/change policies and have been very helpful as well.

I had incredible good fortune using the JetBlue chat feature last night.  I noticed an announcement from JetBlue that stated they were now waiving change/cancellation fees for any flight over the next few weeks regardless of when it was booked.  I cancelled a flight for March 25 just a few days ago, prior to them implementing this new policy and was charged a $200 fee.  I got on the chat feature and within minutes a customer service agent put that $200 into my JetBlue travel bank.  I thanked the agent and Jetblue profusely for being so lenient during this time.


----------



## lovetotravel

neurosx1983 said:


> No...they told me they can't do anything and I have to call Amex directly (where I booked it). Their wait time is several hours at this point...


So you booked through Amex travel? I always wondered what the cancellation policy would be for flight not booked directly with airlines. Why do you have to cancel with Amex?


----------



## Rapunzellover

This whole situation is really ruining ABD for me.  I'm not happy seeing how they are dealing with this.  It seems quite botched.  Refunds and cancellations compared to say, Tauck are lacking, imo.  I'm probably not gonna do advance booking with ABD again, even if it means missing opening day prices. I think if I travel with them again, it will be last minute booking. 

I fully expect my school in CA might go remote after Spring Break, possibly before.  And that sucks so bad cause most of my community college students lack online access.


----------



## Cliffside

Rapunzellover said:


> This whole situation is really ruining ABD for me.  I'm not happy seeing how they are dealing with this.  It seems quite botched.  Refunds and cancellations compared to say, Tauck are lacking, imo.  I'm probably not gonna do advance booking with ABD again, even if it means missing opening day prices. I think if I travel with them again, it will be last minute booking.
> 
> I fully expect my school in CA might go remote after Spring Break, possibly before.  And that sucks so bad cause most of my community college students lack online access.


I totally agree with the lack of response from ABD. It is really disgraceful that they are so behind in dealing with this crisis. My river cruise adventure is not until June but it would surely give me peace of mind if they would adopt some of the policies that their competitors are. It really makes me feel that they don’t care about their clients.  I don’t think I will be able to book another adventure after I am seeing how they are dealing with this situation.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

I just received an e-mail from Scott Dunn. They are not going to budge.

_I hope you are well. My name is Rikki and I am working with our guest relations team to assist with queries around the latest coronavirus outbreak.

 The situation around coronavirus is terrible and remains completely unpredictable. While I do understand your concern we are bound to follow official government advice and that advice has not changed. While we would endeavour to get as much back from our suppliers as possible and refund that to you, the deposit is non-refundable. You can try to claim on your insurance but they may also not cover you if the state advice has not changed.

I really do understand your concern but given how unpredictable the situation is, we have to remain consistent with our approach. We have been in communication with other industry leaders and are confident our policy is consistent with theirs.

Let me know if you have any questions and how you wish to proceed._

I could respond in so many ways, but that won't change their mind, so I am not going to waste my energy. I would like to know what "government advice" they are referring to. Has the UK government stated that people that have booked travel must complete it? Why are they "bound" by government advice? They are a privately owned company. Seems like rubbish to me.

I read through my AIG travel policy last night and even if I had purchased "cancel for any reason" insurance I would've only recouped 50%. Currently I have prepaid almost $17,000.00, so I'd still be OOP a significant amount of money. I am going to PIF on March 20th and hope the virus has stopped spreading in Europe by the time that we travel. I know that money should not be a factor in my decision, but my brain can't separate it. 

I have no love for Scott Dunn -- I will never book another trip with them. They have not given any reason why my deposit can't be transferred to a Canadian Rockies trip, which seems plausible to me, since I asked that no tours, airfares or hotels be booked until I have my Russian visa.


----------



## sayhello

Lalovestotravel said:


> From speaking to our friends who live in Paris, it sounds like they may become a level 3 in a matter of days. She said that they have cases above 1800 now and remember France is the size of Texas. However, it sounds like a level 3 will not stop ABD from canceling the trip. I am so perplexed as to why they are not canceling or postponing these trips. Crazy!


I believe, from what I've seen, that they are waiting on a CDC Level 3 declaration for a particular country before cancelling those trips.  But the CDC have not changed their warning Levels in at least a week or more.  None of the changes in France or the UK or the United states have been reflected on their website at all.  I'm afraid that the CDC is just not going to make any changes, and are just listing general, overall warnings like "don't cruise" "only necessary flying if you're over 60" etc.   I think that's a pretty narrow way for ABD to define if trips get cancelled or not, but there you go.

Sayhello


----------



## disneyholic family

and there you go -

the WHO just declared covid-19 a global pandemic

so ABD are you listening yet?

.


----------



## Jess_S

I am still following news from Singapore because I found that I really like the tone of their news coverage. Today, they reported that their most recent infections were imported -- from France. I really hope that everything goes well for the folks on this week's ABD trip, but it certainly has all the signs of being a huge mistake to proceed.

For those tracking cancellation policies by tour provider, my parents report that Rick Steves has cancelled his tours through April and plans to assess future cancellations on a rolling basis. (They are very happy with the level of communication they received on this issue. My dad is a super anxious person, so that is high praise from him).


----------



## Cliffside

sayhello said:


> I believe, from what I've seen, that they are waiting on a CDC Level 3 declaration for a particular country before cancelling those trips.  But the CDC have not changed their warning Levels in at least a week or more.  None of the changes in France or the UK or the United states have been reflected on their website at all.  I'm afraid that the CDC is just not going to make any changes, and are just listing general, overall warnings like "don't cruise" "only necessary flying if you're over 60" etc.   I think that's a pretty narrow way for ABD to define if trips get cancelled or not, but there you go.
> 
> Sayhello


If the CDC is saying don’t cruise It boggles the mind that they have not offered any changes to their cancellation policies especially for the river cruises. However  they really should be offering similar policies to their competitors for all their adventures.

This is such a stressful time for people it’s so sad that they are making it worse by not giving us any flexibility.


----------



## neurosx1983

lovetotravel said:


> So you booked through Amex travel? I always wondered what the cancellation policy would be for flight not booked directly with airlines. Why do you have to cancel with Amex?



BA wouldn't do anything for me over the phone so I had to call Amex travel.



disneyholic family said:


> and there you go -
> 
> the WHO just declared covid-19 a global pandemic
> 
> so ABD are you listening yet?
> 
> .



ABD is putting their head in the sand and not cancelling any trips, including the one I just cancelled for this week, because as @sayhello  said they're waiting for the CDC to make is level 3. Stupidity. This trip is almost definitely happening because the guides have already arrived and I'm sure some people are already on a prenight. Anyway, to those that are there, please be careful. Going on a group tour, wading through crowds, getting exposed to god-knows-what at places like the Louvre or the train station is such a bad idea.

However, I want to point out something positive that happened to me just recently with ABD. As you guys know I've been calling relentlessly for several days. I've been persistent. I've always insisted on talking to a supervisor, and I've pleaded my case. One of the supervisors actually told me that she would forward my request to her superiors and see what happens. Well, I found out late yesterday that ABD had approved me to move my entire deposit to a placeholder date and use within a year. I'm very pleased with that and I feel that they should have offered that option to EVERYONE on this trip.

I'll be planning on using that for a trip this winter...maybe S america, egypt, or S Africa. Not sure if I'll be thinking about going to Europe or east asia any time soon.

I wanted to share my good news with all of you so you guys can try the same tactic. Bypass the vacationistas. They're useless. Nice people, but completely useless. Go straight to the supervisors and plead your case. I basically told them that I, as a physician, am afraid of my family's safety on the trip. I'm sure those are words no one at Disney ever wants to hear and maybe that got them to do it.

So, props to ABD for doing this for me, but I would wish that they would do it for everyone right now and not make people jump through several hoops as I did.


----------



## Lalovestotravel

I was told by the travel insurance company that if this is deemed a “pandemic” then it is “more likely” that travel insurance will cover it.


----------



## Lalovestotravel

neurosx1983 said:


> BA wouldn't do anything for me over the phone so I had to call Amex travel.
> 
> 
> 
> ABD is putting their head in the sand and not cancelling any trips, including the one I just cancelled for this week, because as @sayhello  said they're waiting for the CDC to make is level 3. Stupidity. This trip is almost definitely happening because the guides have already arrived and I'm sure some people are already on a prenight. Anyway, to those that are there, please be careful. Going on a group tour, wading through crowds, getting exposed to god-knows-what at places like the Louvre or the train station is such a bad idea.
> 
> However, I want to point out something positive that happened to me just recently with ABD. As you guys know I've been calling relentlessly for several days. I've been persistent. I've always insisted on talking to a supervisor, and I've pleaded my case. One of the supervisors actually told me that she would forward my request to her superiors and see what happens. Well, I found out late yesterday that ABD had approved me to move my entire deposit to a placeholder date and use within a year. I'm very pleased with that and I feel that they should have offered that option to EVERYONE on this trip.
> 
> I'll be planning on using that for a trip this winter...maybe S america, egypt, or S Africa. Not sure if I'll be thinking about going to Europe or east asia any time soon.
> 
> I wanted to share my good news with all of you so you guys can try the same tactic. Bypass the vacationistas. They're useless. Nice people, but completely useless. Go straight to the supervisors and plead your case. I basically told them that I, as a physician, am afraid of my family's safety on the trip. I'm sure those are words no one at Disney ever wants to hear and maybe that got them to do it.
> 
> So, props to ABD for doing this for me, but I would wish that they would do it for everyone right now and not make people jump through several hoops as I did.


That is great news!  I am happy for you! I am currently on hold to speak with a supervisor. I pray ABD sees the risks they are taking and start to so the right thing for everyone.


----------



## WishUponAStarryNight

Cliffside said:


> If the CDC is saying don’t cruise It boggles the mind that they have not offered any changes to their cancellation policies especially for the river cruises. However  they really should be offering similar policies to their competitors for all their adventures.
> 
> This is such a stressful time for people it’s so sad that they are making it worse by not giving us any flexibility.


I agree. We’re on the second Danube sailing and I asked about switching to a different trip and was told no go. I’m hesitant to leave North America - I’d prefer to stay closer to home. I wasn’t even trying to cancel or move the trip into 2021, but they would hear nothing of it. This is my first ABD experience and likely my last.


----------



## disneyholic family

neurosx1983 said:


> BA wouldn't do anything for me over the phone so I had to call Amex travel.
> 
> 
> 
> ABD is putting their head in the sand and not cancelling any trips, including the one I just cancelled for this week, because as @sayhello  said they're waiting for the CDC to make is level 3. Stupidity. This trip is almost definitely happening because the guides have already arrived and I'm sure some people are already on a prenight. Anyway, to those that are there, please be careful. Going on a group tour, wading through crowds, getting exposed to god-knows-what at places like the Louvre or the train station is such a bad idea.
> 
> However, I want to point out something positive that happened to me just recently with ABD. As you guys know I've been calling relentlessly for several days. I've been persistent. I've always insisted on talking to a supervisor, and I've pleaded my case. One of the supervisors actually told me that she would forward my request to her superiors and see what happens. Well, I found out late yesterday that ABD had approved me to move my entire deposit to a placeholder date and use within a year. I'm very pleased with that and I feel that they should have offered that option to EVERYONE on this trip.
> 
> I'll be planning on using that for a trip this winter...maybe S america, egypt, or S Africa. Not sure if I'll be thinking about going to Europe or east asia any time soon.
> 
> I wanted to share my good news with all of you so you guys can try the same tactic. Bypass the vacationistas. They're useless. Nice people, but completely useless. Go straight to the supervisors and plead your case. I basically told them that I, as a physician, am afraid of my family's safety on the trip. I'm sure those are words no one at Disney ever wants to hear and maybe that got them to do it.
> 
> So, props to ABD for doing this for me, but I would wish that they would do it for everyone right now and not make people jump through several hoops as I did.



Very happy to hear they finally grew a brain!
this is all anyone is asking for. That they do what DCL is doing.  Permit people to move the reservation to another time. Even better that they let you leave it open.  Excellent outcome!!

.


----------



## Cliffside

neurosx1983 said:


> BA wouldn't do anything for me over the phone so I had to call Amex travel.
> 
> 
> 
> ABD is putting their head in the sand and not cancelling any trips, including the one I just cancelled for this week, because as @sayhello  said they're waiting for the CDC to make is level 3. Stupidity. This trip is almost definitely happening because the guides have already arrived and I'm sure some people are already on a prenight. Anyway, to those that are there, please be careful. Going on a group tour, wading through crowds, getting exposed to god-knows-what at places like the Louvre or the train station is such a bad idea.
> 
> However, I want to point out something positive that happened to me just recently with ABD. As you guys know I've been calling relentlessly for several days. I've been persistent. I've always insisted on talking to a supervisor, and I've pleaded my case. One of the supervisors actually told me that she would forward my request to her superiors and see what happens. Well, I found out late yesterday that ABD had approved me to move my entire deposit to a placeholder date and use within a year. I'm very pleased with that and I feel that they should have offered that option to EVERYONE on this trip.
> 
> I'll be planning on using that for a trip this winter...maybe S america, egypt, or S Africa. Not sure if I'll be thinking about going to Europe or east asia any time soon.
> 
> I wanted to share my good news with all of you so you guys can try the same tactic. Bypass the vacationistas. They're useless. Nice people, but completely useless. Go straight to the supervisors and plead your case. I basically told them that I, as a physician, am afraid of my family's safety on the trip. I'm sure those are words no one at Disney ever wants to hear and maybe that got them to do it.
> 
> So, props to ABD for doing this for me, but I would wish that they would do it for everyone right now and not make people jump through several hoops as I did.


That’s good to hear. But it is quite sad that they are not offering it as their policy. That is what they should be doing for everyone.


----------



## neurosx1983

Cliffside said:


> That’s good to hear. But it is quite sad that they are not offering it as their policy. That is what they should be doing for everyone.



I totally agree. And maybe they didn't think I'd come on Disboards and tell everyone they did that for me. But guess what, I did!


----------



## Cliffside

WishUponAStarryNight said:


> I agree. We’re on the second Danube sailing and I asked about switching to a different trip and was told no go. I’m hesitant to leave North America - I’d prefer to stay closer to home. I wasn’t even trying to cancel or move the trip into 2021, but they would hear nothing of it. This is my first ABD experience and likely my last.


I keep hoping they do the right thing. But as the news gets worse they continue to put there head in the sand. I am almost at the point to cancel and at least have my 50% back. Which is so unfair because if I had booked basically the identical cruise on Ama I would have a 100% future cruise credit but I booked with Disney because of their “great” customer service. What a joke.


----------



## lovetotravel

What happens now with the pandemic and ABD?


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Not sure if you guys saw this: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...t-positive-coronavirus-placed-quarantine.html


----------



## neurosx1983

France's response in general has been interesting...and maybe that's why ABD has been slow to respond by not cancelling London/Paris.
None of the major tourist attractions are closed including DLP, even now with some workers testing positive.
Contrast that to how Japan handled things...


----------



## laceltris3

The other difference is that ABD *only* made that change for one person after receiving calls basically every day and escalating. Contrast that to the policies of the other companies that were broadly disseminated some time ago. I assume that the phone lines for those companies are a lot clearer for those who are making changes. The certainty of knowing PIF isn't until 30 days out is priceless.

FYI, I called Air France yesterday and got through immediately. They were a little sketchy on whether I could use a credit for a domestic flight on Delta, saying I would have to call to see if they could book in in their system, but did confirm that if I cancelled I had a year from now, not the purchase date to spend it, not travel. That gives me no incentive not to wait to see how bad France gets and wait until June to do anything.

I have to admit, I am thinking about 2021, and normally book about this time (if not earlier) for our summer trips the following year, but I just *can't* do it. Even though I know I will probably lose the suite we had if we try to postpone France to next year...


----------



## disneyholic family

neurosx1983 said:


> France's response in general has been interesting...and maybe that's why ABD has been slow to respond by not cancelling London/Paris.
> None of the major tourist attractions are closed including DLP, even now with some workers testing positive.
> Contrast that to how Japan handled things...



by the way, i suggest you take those two ID specialists off your list of people with whom you consult in the future.
Either they weren't following what's happening in the rest of the world (negligent in their line of work), or they're unable to connect the dots.
Either way, their advice to you last week doesn't inspire confidence.
.


----------



## neurosx1983

I totally agree. I think some people have tried to downplay this, and I’m talking about other doctors. I think ultimately we all have to do what’s best for our families and be sensible about it. And I think it’s valuable to have a community like this to bounce ideas off of.


----------



## Skylarr29

We’re booked on Southeast Asia and China trips back to back later this year. Since we’re before pay in full we will just move our deposits, but more than likely we are just letting them go. Nothing about how they’ve handled this makes me confident to ever book with them again.


----------



## Rapunzellover

Skylarr29 said:


> Nothing about how they’ve handled this makes me confident to ever book with them again.



Yeah, I feel the same way.  I'm appalled the London/Paris trip is going this weekend.  Unconscionably stupid decision, imo.  Far too risky.

Trump is supposed to address the nation tonight, and I'm suspecting a possibly drastic response to combat the criticism he's gotten (it's an election year, you know).  I seriously fear those people heading overseas might get stuck being  unable to return if he shuts boarders like Italy.


----------



## JEJ

WishUponAStarryNight said:


> I agree. We’re on the second Danube sailing and I asked about switching to a different trip and was told no go. I’m hesitant to leave North America - I’d prefer to stay closer to home. I wasn’t even trying to cancel or move the trip into 2021, but they would hear nothing of it. This is my first ABD experience and likely my last.


Keep at it.  My family is a party of 5 sailing with another party of 5.  We went straight to the supervisors two weeks ago before the paid in full date for our Danube sailing this July.  We were persistent and they  credited our full deposit for future trips that have to be booked by August 2021.


----------



## Cliffside

JEJ said:


> Keep at it.  My family is a party of 5 sailing with another party of 5.  We went straight to the supervisors two weeks ago before the paid in full date for our Danube sailing this July.  We were persistent and they  credited our full deposit for future trips that have to be booked by August 2021.


That’s good to know...I guess I will be making some phone calls.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Our club just sent out an e-mail; it looks like they are handling the issue of some people not self-quarantining by initiating a new policy (below). I am not sure what will happen if the girl that just came back from Italy shows up at the gym or tennis courts, but I'm guessing the ire of other members should be enough to keep her away.

_At its meeting on March 10, 2020, the Board of Directors approved the following policy, effective immediately.

_

_If an individual in the household has traveled to a location listed on the CDC’s Level 3 Travel Health Notice list, the entire household is required to follow CDC recommendations for self-quarantine._
_ 
           The countries currently listed on the CDC’s Level 3 Travel Health Notice list are China, Iran, South Korea and Italy._


----------



## Happy99

I understand everyone's concerns and trips happening soon, in less than 30 days I think ABD should cancel and they have cancelled April and May land tours to Italy. I may be in the minority but cancelling June almost three months in advance is a bit much. I may be an optimist but things may be totally different (on the upside) in 30 days and they are waiting it out.


----------



## Cliffside

Happy99 said:


> I understand everyone's concerns and trips happening soon, in less than 30 days I think ABD should cancel and they have cancelled April and May land tours to Italy. I may be in the minority but cancelling June almost three months in advance is a bit much. I may be an optimist but things may be totally different (on the upside) in 30 days and they are waiting it out.


I have no problem waiting it out if they had the same policy in place like DCL where you can cancel 24 hours in advance and get 100% travel credit. 

Especially when I just saw there is yet another quarantined river cruise ship in Cambodia. This time it is Viking.


----------



## JEJ

Happy99 said:


> I understand everyone's concerns and trips happening soon, in less than 30 days I think ABD should cancel and they have cancelled April and May land tours to Italy. I may be in the minority but cancelling June almost three months in advance is a bit much. I may be an optimist but things may be totally different (on the upside) in 30 days and they are waiting it out.



I actually agree.  The real issue I had was ABD's inflexibility on paid-in-full dates and rebooking.  The smart thing to do would have been to shift paid-in-full dates to 30 days before trip date and permit rebooking of trips for those already paid in full who requested a change.


----------



## Cliffside

JEJ said:


> I actually agree.  The real issue I had was ABD's inflexibility on paid-in-full dates and rebooking.  The smart thing to do would have been to shift paid-in-full dates to 30 days before trip date and permit rebooking of trips for those already paid in full who requested a change.


I agree completely. However it seems based on people’s posts that they are making accommodations...you just need to get the right person on the phone....which is even more frustrating that they are being so inconsistent. It makes the situation completely unfair.


----------



## disneyholic family

so daily update..
what's happening in italy is heartbreaking. 
This is what happens when the the spread is too fast.
196 people died there today from corona.
The most yet in a single day, bringing the total deaths to 827.

As for confirmed cases as of today:
Italy:  Confirmed cases = 12,462 (of which 2,313 new cases today)
France: Confirmed cases = 2,281 (of which 497 new cases today)
Spain: Confirmed cases = 2,262  (of which 567 new cases today)
Germany Confirmed cases = 1,908 (of which 343 new cases today)
and so on..

editing to add the UK
UK:  Confirmed cases = 456 (of which 73 new cases today)
.


----------



## sayhello

I am confused.  Multiple people have posted about "finally getting" ABD to move their deposits off of their current trip before PIF date, and having it to use for a year.  That's ABD's normal policy.  Before PIF date, the deposit can be "parked" and has to be moved to another trip within a year.  What am I missing here?  Do people actually mean their entire PIF payment to ABD?  Sorry, but as I said, I'm confused now.

Sayhello


----------



## WishUponAStarryNight

Happy99 said:


> I understand everyone's concerns and trips happening soon, in less than 30 days I think ABD should cancel and they have cancelled April and May land tours to Italy. I may be in the minority but cancelling June almost three months in advance is a bit much. I may be an optimist but things may be totally different (on the upside) in 30 days and they are waiting it out.


Like others, I agree with you. Unfortunately, I don’t have a lot of flexibility regarding vacation time, so waiting until the last minute to see if a trip is canceled will likely leave me with very limited options. I’m trying to get ahead of things as best I can.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

I'm so confused.  I have two deposits with ABD currently.  Both are past the 14-day refundable date.  PIF for one is later this month, the other is in April.  I was under the impression that I might be able to "park" these deposits or move them to another trip, but I just read my terms and conditions and it basically said any vacation destination or date change is considered a cancellation and subject to fees.  I am also seeing others on this thread are having a lot of difficulty getting ABD to park their payments or change their dates.  Is my only recourse on my PIF date to pay in full and hope we can go or cancel and lose the deposit?


----------



## BluesTraveler

sayhello said:


> I am confused.  Multiple people have posted about "finally getting" ABD to move their deposits off of their current trip before PIF date, and having it to use for a year.  That's ABD's normal policy.  Before PIF date, the deposit can be "parked" and has to be moved to another trip within a year.  What am I missing here?  Do people actually mean their entire PIF payment to ABD?  Sorry, but as I said, I'm confused now.
> 
> Sayhello


I *think* that's what people are talking about - they've paid in full but now would like the flexibility to move that $$ to another trip.

We have 2 trips to Backroads scheduled for this year, one for next month and one for July.  We just got another e-mail from them that lists out all the options you have (cancel, move to another trip, hold funds indefinitely until you pick a trip, etc.).  It seems very reasonable and very flexible.  I'm curious as to ABD's business case for their inflexibility compared to other companies, when it seems ABD, with the backing of Disney, has less financial vulnerability?  I wish I could be a fly on the wall.


----------



## sayhello

BluesTraveler said:


> I *think* that's what people are talking about - they've paid in full but now would like the flexibility to move that $$ to another trip.


I hope so.  Otherwise, it makes no sense.


BluesTraveler said:


> We have 2 trips to Backroads scheduled for this year, one for next month and one for July.  We just got another e-mail from them that lists out all the options you have (cancel, move to another trip, hold funds indefinitely until you pick a trip, etc.).  It seems very reasonable and very flexible.  I'm curious as to ABD's business case for their inflexibility compared to other companies, when it seems ABD, with the backing of Disney, has less financial vulnerability?  I wish I could be a fly on the wall.


I totally agree with all of this this.    My trip is not until mid-May, and already PIF, but it would be nice to know I have the flexibility to move my money to another trip if necessary.  I'm trying not to think about it yet.  I'm currently assuming everything will be fine by then.  At this point, it's not hurting me to assume that.

Sayhello


----------



## Donalyn

While I hate to say this, I think that we all just need to come to terms with the fact that we will likely not be going anywhere for a long time (which I hate to say for so many reasons but a lot because I so need a vacation and our spring break is 2.5 weeks away).


----------



## SingingMom

Happy99 said:


> I understand everyone's concerns and trips happening soon, in less than 30 days I think ABD should cancel and they have cancelled April and May land tours to Italy. I may be in the minority but cancelling June almost three months in advance is a bit much. I may be an optimist but things may be totally different (on the upside) in 30 days and they are waiting it out.


I'm hoping you are correct.  We have until June to pay in full our October land Italy ABD, but I haven't purchased flights yet.  Still going to hold out a little while longer....


----------



## neurosx1983

Yes well obviously in my case i had paid in full because I was supposed to leave tomorrow morning for England/France with a prenight.

ABD moved everything except insurance amount to a dummy date. I just have to apply it within 12 months. That’s because i kicked and screamed.

yes normally their policy is that you can move a deposit (before PIF) once


----------



## Lalovestotravel

neurosx1983 said:


> Yes well obviously in my case i had paid in full because I was supposed to leave tomorrow morning for England/France with a prenight.
> 
> ABD moved everything except insurance amount to a dummy date. I just have to apply it within 12 months. That’s because i kicked and screamed.
> 
> yes normally their policy is that you can move a deposit (before PIF) once


I am happy that you were able to get a dummy date. My travel agent called the regional head of ABD today to complain as she has called every day this week to get answers. The heads response was “there is still time to make changes as we see fit. We will continue to watch this but as of now, all tours are scheduled as is”. We leave in 2 weeks!!!  There was no option to move to another date. After all of this is said and done, I want to review my options with an attorney. The amount of stress this has caused me and my family is crazy. The thought of being out that much money is sickening, the risk that ABD is willing to take to pad their own pockets is disgusting. I am disappointed in this company.


----------



## Cliffside

All travel from Europe for the next 30 days suspended...wow


----------



## gotomu212

Cliffside said:


> All travel from Europe for the next 30 days suspended..I guess ABD will have to act now.



This is unprecedented, and I don’t understand what happens to Americans abroad that cannot get home in the next 26 hours. I did not hear about exceptions for Americans


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

gotomu212 said:


> This is unprecedented, and I don’t understand what happens to Americans abroad that cannot get home in the next 26 hours. I did not hear about exceptions for Americans


I agree. What is going to happen to those on the ABD London / France? Now ABD is going to have a big problem on their hands. Too bad they were the only ones that didn't foresee a problem if they proceeded with this trip. What a horrific decision they made to proceed with this trip. I suppose they could get everyone back to London, but that would involve everyone having to try to change their flights and I would also imagine anyone potentially stuck in other parts of Europe will be flocking to London to get back to the states.


----------



## disneyholic family

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I agree. What is going to happen to those on the ABD London / France? Now ABD is going to have a big problem on their hands. Too bad they were the only ones that didn't foresee a problem if they proceeded with this trip. What a horrific decision they made to proceed with this trip. I suppose they could get everyone back to London, but that would involve everyone having to try to change their flights and I would also imagine anyone potentially stuck in other parts of Europe will be flocking to London to get back to the states.



indeed....to say they are idiots is the understatement of the century.
i believe the tour begins in the UK, so they can turn everyone around from the UK..
or they could continue their boneheadedness and carry out the tour in the UK only (without going to france) since the travel ban excludes the UK (for now)...

.


----------



## neurosx1983

Good job ABD for putting dozens of people at risk this week. I’m glad some of us had the foresight to get out of this trip and not wait for them to save the day


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

gotomu212 said:


> This is unprecedented, and I don’t understand what happens to Americans abroad that cannot get home in the next 26 hours. I did not hear about exceptions for Americans


If I were in other parts of Europe I would getting my behind to Heathrow as quickly as possible before they shut the UK off from the US as well. Along with thousands and thousands of others. Heathrow is going to be an absolute madhouse. 

Shoot I can't believe ABD put their customers in this situation -- first putting them in the cross hairs of the virus by continuing with this trip, now looking at them being potentially stuck in Paris when the trip is over. If I was on the trip (and if I was I would've cancelled) I would not be able to enjoy myself at all -- between worrying about contracting the virus and worried about how I would get home, then likely facing a mandatory 14 day quarantine once I got home, I can't see any way I would be having a jolly old good time.

Prayers for those on the trip that put their trust in ABD and went ahead as scheduled.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

disneyholic family said:


> indeed....to say they are idiots is the understatement of the century.
> i believe the tour begins in the UK, so they can turn everyone around from the UK..
> *or they could continue their boneheadedness and carry out the tour in the UK only (without continuing to france) since the travel ban excludes the UK (for now)...*
> 
> .



My money's on this.  They will tour UK and then send everyone home from there.  I was looking over the terms and conditions of my ABD contract earlier and it very clearly says they can do this and not issue any refunds, credits, etc.  Now, trying to find flights for everyone at this point is a whole different matter.  ugh.


----------



## neurosx1983

I’m sorry but we are all adults and we as adults should know better than to go on a group tour to Europe during this insanity. The problem is a lot of people truly believe in the Disney bubble and that nothing can go wrong. That’s a dangerous attitude.

I also sadly think that there are some people on these trips that haven’t traveled ever. There were a few on the last ABD I was on in Italy. And for these unfortunate people they may not understand. But there’s just so much stuff on the news that I find it hard to believe people don’t know that it’s risky to travel there right now


----------



## lovetotravel

neurosx1983 said:


> Good job ABD for putting dozens of people at risk this week. I’m glad some of us had the foresight to get out of this trip and not wait for them to save the day


You've made a great decision for your family!!!


----------



## lovetotravel

DisneyWishes14 said:


> My money's on this.  They will tour UK and then send everyone home from there.  I was looking over the terms and conditions of my ABD contract earlier and it very clearly says they can do this and not issue any refunds, credits, etc.  Now, trying to find flights for everyone at this point is a whole different matter.  ugh.


I hope they can find a way home. So sad.


----------



## Cliffside

disneyholic family said:


> indeed....to say they are idiots is the understatement of the century.
> i believe the tour begins in the UK, so they can turn everyone around from the UK..
> or they could continue their boneheadedness and carry out the tour in the UK only (without continuing to france) since the travel ban excludes the UK..
> 
> .





*WDW*Groupie* said:


> If I were in other parts of Europe I would getting my behind to Heathrow as quickly as possible before they shut the UK off from the US as well. Along with thousands and thousands of others. Heathrow is going to be an absolute madhouse.
> 
> Shoot I can't believe ABD put their customers in this situation -- first putting them in the cross hairs of the virus by continuing with this trip, now looking at them being potentially stuck in Paris when the trip is over. If I was on the trip (and if I was I would've cancelled) I would not be able to enjoy myself at all -- between worrying about contracting the virus and worried about how I would get home, then likely facing a mandatory 14 day quarantine once I got home, I can't see any way I would be having a jolly old good time.
> 
> Prayers for those on the trip that put their trust in ABD and went ahead as scheduled.


I don’t understand how not including the UK is going to work. Won’t everyone try to get to the U.K. if they want to get to the US. 
Are they not allowing people with European passports enter the country?


----------



## Networth

Cliffside said:


> I don’t understand how not including the UK is going to work. Won’t everyone try to get to the U.K. if they want to get to the US.
> Are they not allowing people with European passports enter the country?



Just spit balling here but possibly with a U.K. or U.S. passport if Trump wasn’t being very specific.


----------



## Rapunzellover

I called this travel ban earlier today, so why couldn't ABD?  I suspect it could even become a longer ban than 30 days too.  God, what stupidity.  Hopefully,  vacationistas are calling people and canceling right now because it doesn't start yet.  Hopefully,  just people doing extra predays and the guides will be the only ones affected.  They've got to be suicidal if they let more people leave for the trip.


----------



## Lalovestotravel

For those scheduled to travel in the next 30 days in Europe, my travel agent just spoke to ABD and we will be receiving an email tomorrow outlining our options.


----------



## gotomu212

Cliffside said:


> I don’t understand how not including the UK is going to work. Won’t everyone try to get to the U.K. if they want to get to the US.
> Are they not allowing people with European passports enter the country?



I believe I read that the EU open borders is why all Europe but not U.K. was included. I would not linger in the U.K. though. I also think they are going to have some plan to get Americans home somehow, but this is a gigantic cluster and going to be chaos.


----------



## Rapunzellover

Lalovestotravel said:


> I am happy that you were able to get a dummy date. My travel agent called the regional head of ABD today to complain as she has called every day this week to get answers. The heads response was “there is still time to make changes as we see fit. We will continue to watch this but as of now, all tours are scheduled as is”. We leave in 2 weeks!!!  There was no option to move to another date. After all of this is said and done, I want to review my options with an attorney. The amount of stress this has caused me and my family is crazy. The thought of being out that much money is sickening, the risk that ABD is willing to take to pad their own pockets is disgusting. I am disappointed in this company.



I'm hoping things change now for you since there's a ban.  I'm disgusted on your behalf.  

As for consulting an attorney, I would not waste my time doing that yet.  I suspect some class action suits might get filed eventually against some companies.   Wait and see because that would be a better option.


----------



## neurosx1983

Some people might be in the UK already for their pre-nights. I’m hoping ABD will take care of them if they do cancel. And I just strand them there.


----------



## disneyholic family

neurosx1983 said:


> Some people might be in the UK already for their pre-nights. I’m hoping ABD will take care of them if they do cancel. And I just strand them there.



if they cancel, won't the people get a complete refund, rather than what you had to do?
if that happens, they should refund you retroactively.
.


----------



## neurosx1983

disneyholic family said:


> if they cancel, won't the people get a complete refund, rather than what you had to do?
> if that happens, they should refund you retroactively.
> .



Yes I’ll try and fight for that if they do cancel


----------



## pdsgator

We are in route to Australia and had a family member call and Disney is saying that our trip is not affected and not offering any relief.  Has anyone had success in changing a trip?  
I thinks it’s crazy that international travel is disrupted, countries are telling people to stay self contained.  And we are supposed to go on a bus.  
Really expected more out of abd.
That said, any have any advice on what we can do to move the trip and not lose all our money.
We had planned to arrive two days earlier so we were thinking of not making the connection in LA until we could talk to a supervisor.  Any advice would be appreciated.


----------



## neurosx1983

ABD just called me. England and France is cancelled officially.
Guess they waited till the absolute last second


----------



## Cliffside

neurosx1983 said:


> ABD just called me. England and France is cancelled officially.
> Guess they waited till the absolute last second


Unbelievable...what was the start date for the adventure? I’m sure there were plenty of other people who wanted to cancel and have left already for London ..wishing them safe travels home.


----------



## gotomu212

neurosx1983 said:


> ABD just called me. England and France is cancelled officially.
> Guess they waited till the absolute last second



Did you reply “no &$#$, I saw the Presidents address”? Sorry I know it’s snarky but I think ABD destroyed a lot of brand loyalty in how they handled this.


----------



## rhinodadz

neurosx1983 said:


> Good job ABD for putting dozens of people at risk this week. I’m glad some of us had the foresight to get out of this trip and not wait for them to save the day


Just got a call from ABD cancelling the 3/13 England/France adventure. 100% refund promised, will get a call tomorrow with details.


----------



## Cliffside

rhinodadz said:


> Just got a call from ABD cancelling the 3/13 England/France adventure. 100% refund promised, will get a call tomorrow with details.


Nothing like the last minute. I feel so bad for those who flew out already. I hope they can get flights back easily.


----------



## lovetotravel

Cliffside said:


> Nothing like the last minute. I feel so bad for those who flew out already. I hope they can get flights back easily.


Things are changing rapidly. The only way the cases are going is up. What did ABD expect? A miracle? Poor people en route. We need a flexible cancel policy ASAP now to the summer.


----------



## neurosx1983

The lady at ABD operations said that trumps speech was what made them cancel. She said they were fully intending on going ahead with it until that.


----------



## lovetotravel

neurosx1983 said:


> The lady at ABD operations said that trumps speech was what made them cancel. She said they were fully intending on going ahead with it until that.


Ridiculous. CDC Level 3 Europe, CDC Level 2 Global. Is this finally enough for ABD to cancel all trips for 30 days minimum?

ABD is not the only one loosing money. We all are in insurance, deposits, flights, pre trips, etc. We are all suffering.


----------



## lovetotravel

Global Level 3 Health Advisory – Reconsider Travel

Global Health Advisory
March 11, 2020
Level 3: Reconsider Travel

The Department of State advises U.S. citizens to reconsider travel abroad due to the global impact of COVID-19.  Many areas throughout the world are now experiencing COVID-19 outbreaks and taking action that may limit traveler mobility, including quarantines and border restrictions.  Even countries, jurisdictions, or areas where cases have not been reported may restrict travel without notice. 
———
It just makes sense to cancel all ABD trips for the time being no matter where the destination, no exception.


----------



## Sakura1017

Lalovestotravel said:


> For those scheduled to travel in the next 30 days in Europe, my travel agent just spoke to ABD and we will be receiving an email tomorrow outlining our options.


I hope they give everyone REFUNDS, and not travel credit to be taken within the next year either. Now that a travel ban is in place it's not anyone's fault that we can't travel.


----------



## lovetotravel

Viking suspends all cruises, including river cruises until May 1st!

https://thepointsguy.com/news/cruise-line-viking-suspends-operations-worldwide-due-to-coronavirus/
Looking forward to ABDs decisions today!!


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

We leave England today, and I'm relieved the travel restrictions didn't include the UK but not looking forward to Heathrow. I think it's going to be a mess. 

My husband has been asked to work from home by his business since we've been traveling (even to the UK). He was planning to do this as much as possible, but it's something else to think about with travel in these uncertain times. 

I reiterate my comments from earlier and hope that people aren't still trying to defend ABD has having their client's best interest in mind with these asinine decisions they've been making. It's inexcusable. It has been very clear on this side of the pond that this was not the time to travel to Europe, and that this thing was not going away. Clearly ABD's refund policies/cancellations have been motivated by $$. 

To this point, I actually received an email from a much smaller travel program through a university offering to refund any deposits/fees for trips planned the rest of the YEAR if people were feeling uncertain about travel. They didn't cancel all trips, but gave people the peace of mind option to cancel if they wanted. That is customer service. I have a trip planned with them in October that I'm debating about. It's in a  part of the world that I wouldn't want to get stuck in if the virus is still around or re-emerges next fall without a vaccine in place. 

I hope at least with this most recent developments that those of you involved in trips over the next couple months get full refunds from ABD. I feel so badly for ABDers now in a travel nightmare to get home for trips that weren't cancelled in time and should have been. Very badly done ABD.


----------



## lovetotravel

“Ignore your customers and they’ll go away”

Airbnb also ignoring customers, hope ABD adopts flexible policy ASAP. 

...Smart companies strive to protect their reputations, especially when bad things happen outside their control, said Micah Solomon, a customer service expert and author of the book Ignore Your Customers And They’ll Go Away. “This crisis is going to be over sometime,” he said, and when it’s over “you still want to be the go-to place for guests.”...
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...guests-refunds-amid-virus-cancellation-frenzy


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

I am going to call both Quark and Scott Dunn today. Hopefully with the CDC Level 3 warning in place I will be able to get a full refund. Our Arctic cruise leaves from Oslo; our Russia / N. Europe trip requires transit through Switzerland (to get to St. Petersburg) and extensive travel through Norway. I cannot fathom how they cannot refund my money with these restrictions in place -- it would be unconscionable.

Below is the response from Scott Dunn. Suffice it to say I am not happy; when I checked this morning Norway was a Level 3:

_We have been following the updates but they do not affect the countries you are visiting. The State Department advise has only changed for European Union countries within the Shenzhen zone. Russia and Norway haven’t changed.

The situation is evolving constantly and there is a chance something will change between now in May. With this in mind I recommend we take the ‘wait-and-see’ approach. At the moment if you cancel neither yours or our insurance will cover it and you stand to lose everything but your deposit. If anything changes we will advise you right away.

I really do understand your concern and rest assured we are doing everything possible to help our guests. However, this is an unprecedented situation which is changing quickly hence we cannot act until we have official advice.

Let me know if you have any questions in the meantime._


----------



## lovetotravel

All Princess cruise cancelled until May 10:
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/12/car...-operations-for-60-days-over-coronavirus.html


----------



## dolewhipdreams

I hadn't seen this mentioned so I wanted to chime in- the official statement from Homeland Security says that the Europe flight ban does not apply to "legal permanent residents, (generally) immediate family members of U.S. citizens, and other individuals who are identified in the proclamation."

So Americans who were already in Europe when the ban was called will still be able to come home. My family is there on a trip to Finland & Estonia right now. They will have to cut their trip short but they will be able to come back to the States. What we don't know is if they'll be asked to self-quarantine when they return. They live in a fairly rural part of the Midwest, but the college campus about 15 miles away from them has already cancelled in-person classes so the area is kind of on high alert.

Here's the full official statement if anyone hasn't read it: https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/03/11...-f-wolf-s-statement-presidential-proclamation


----------



## WishUponAStarryNight

dolewhipdreams said:


> I hadn't seen this mentioned so I wanted to chime in- the official statement from Homeland Security says that the Europe flight ban does not apply to "legal permanent residents, (generally) immediate family members of U.S. citizens, and other individuals who are identified in the proclamation."
> 
> So Americans who were already in Europe when the ban was called will still be able to come home. My family is there on a trip to Finland & Estonia right now. They will have to cut their trip short but they will be able to come back to the States. What we don't know is if they'll be asked to self-quarantine when they return. They live in a fairly rural part of the Midwest, but the college campus about 15 miles away from them has already cancelled in-person classes so the area is kind of on high alert.
> 
> Here's the full official statement if anyone hasn't read it: https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/03/11...-f-wolf-s-statement-presidential-proclamation


Based on comments I’ve seen from Pence, they will be required to self-quarantine. Of course things are ever changing, but that’s what I heard this morning. Apparently, there are limited arrival airports as well. No idea how it will work in practice.


----------



## disneyholic family

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I am going to call both Quark and Scott Dunn today. Hopefully with the CDC Level 3 warning in place I will be able to get a full refund. Our Arctic cruise leaves from Oslo; our Russia / N. Europe trip requires transit through Switzerland (to get to St. Petersburg) and extensive travel through Norway. I cannot fathom how they cannot refund my money with these restrictions in place -- it would be unconscionable.
> 
> Below is the response from Scott Dunn. Suffice it to say I am not happy; when I checked this morning Norway was a Level 3:
> 
> _We have been following the updates but they do not affect the countries you are visiting. The State Department advise has only changed for European Union countries within the Shenzhen zone. Russia and Norway haven’t changed.
> 
> The situation is evolving constantly and there is a chance something will change between now in May. With this in mind I recommend we take the ‘wait-and-see’ approach. At the moment if you cancel neither yours or our insurance will cover it and you stand to lose everything but your deposit. If anything changes we will advise you right away.
> 
> I really do understand your concern and rest assured we are doing everything possible to help our guests. However, this is an unprecedented situation which is changing quickly hence we cannot act until we have official advice.
> 
> Let me know if you have any questions in the meantime._



***
Norway is right up there with the rest of Europe. As of yesterday, the number of confirmed cases was 703 with high daily increases.
As for Russia, they lie through their teeth. You have no way of knowing what their numbers are




dolewhipdreams said:


> I hadn't seen this mentioned so I wanted to chime in- the official statement from Homeland Security says that the Europe flight ban does not apply to "legal permanent residents, (generally) immediate family members of U.S. citizens, and other individuals who are identified in the proclamation."
> 
> So Americans who were already in Europe when the ban was called will still be able to come home. My family is there on a trip to Finland & Estonia right now. They will have to cut their trip short but they will be able to come back to the States. What we don't know is if they'll be asked to self-quarantine when they return. They live in a fairly rural part of the Midwest, but the college campus about 15 miles away from them has already cancelled in-person classes so the area is kind of on high alert.
> 
> Here's the full official statement if anyone hasn't read it: https://www.dhs.gov/news/2020/03/11...-f-wolf-s-statement-presidential-proclamation



logic says they must self quarantine. 
.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

As I've mentioned, I have two deposits with ABD currently with PIFs coming up in late March and late April.  At this point, I am inclined to park these deposits.  Given how they handled the March 13 UK/France ABD, I have zero faith they are prioritizing guest safety and well-being.  I really wish I had never booked with them in the first place.  After I figure out what to do with these deposits, unless they come out, very soon, with some grand gesture toward guests who are booked within the next 60 days or so, I will never book with them again.


----------



## 2Gma

lovetotravel said:


> “Ignore your customers and they’ll go away”
> 
> Airbnb also ignoring customers, hope ABD adopts flexible policy ASAP.



VRBO is also ignoring customers.  Yesterday when I called they told me the only thing they could offer was FOR ME to contact the VRBO owner regarding a refund but the choice to refund was up to the owner. (of course the owner is not refunding)  After asking to speak to someone else regarding the situation they were only to refund my service fee of $251 for a $4000 reservation and told me they would be "hanging up on me because this call was unproductive." I have loved booking Vrbo's for 10 years, never again!!

Maybe we should start a "list of bad/good customer service thread" throughout this ordeal so we can refer back to when considering who to book travel with when this is all over.


----------



## lovetotravel

2Gma said:


> VRBO is also ignoring customers.  Yesterday when I called they told me the only thing they could offer was FOR ME to contact the VRBO owner regarding a refund but the choice to refund was up to the owner. (of course the owner is not refunding)  After asking to speak to someone else regarding the situation they were only to refund my service fee of $251 for a $4000 reservation and told me they would be "hanging up on me because this call was unproductive." I have loved booking Vrbo's for 10 years, never again!!
> 
> Maybe we should start a "list of bad/good customer service thread" throughout this ordeal so we can refer back to when considering who to book travel with when this is all over.


I’d be happy to contribute to list of good/bad travel customer service!


----------



## BrerNashville

We start our costa rica ABD trip saturday (3/14). I assume we fall in the Australia bucket -- if it's not the Schengen area, no refunds?


----------



## Cliffside

DisneyWishes14 said:


> As I've mentioned, I have two deposits with ABD currently with PIFs coming up in late March and late April.  At this point, I am inclined to park these deposits.  Given how they handled the March 13 UK/France ABD, I have zero faith they are prioritizing guest safety and well-being.  I really wish I had never booked with them in the first place.  After I figure out what to do with these deposits, unless they come out, very soon, with some grand gesture toward guests who are booked within the next 60 days or so, I will never book with them again.


Has anyone spoken to them this morning. Unfortunately my PIF was literally a week after things got to critical mass. I also have no faith that they will do the right thing based on not cancelling the 3/13 England/France adventure or at least changing the cancellation policies so people felt like they were given no option but to go or lose a large amount of money. 
I keep going back and forth if I should just cancel and get my 50% cash back.


----------



## JEJ

sayhello said:


> I am confused.  Multiple people have posted about "finally getting" ABD to move their deposits off of their current trip before PIF date, and having it to use for a year.  That's ABD's normal policy.  Before PIF date, the deposit can be "parked" and has to be moved to another trip within a year.  What am I missing here?  Do people actually mean their entire PIF payment to ABD?  Sorry, but as I said, I'm confused now.
> 
> Sayhello


When I took my first ABD a few years ago, this was the unofficial policy, although it is contradicted by the actual terms and conditions, and I got no pushback when I moved my deposit.  I tried to park my deposit this year, a week or so ago, before my paid in full date and was flatly and repeatedly told no, and had the terms and conditions repeatedly cited to me.  Only after we escalated to a supervisor (and after spending probably 6-7 additional hours on the phone and on hold) did ABD relent and give us a placeholder date.  It was unreal, and contrary to the high level of customer service I have received from Disney and ABD in the past.


----------



## lovetotravel

BrerNashville said:


> We start our costa rica ABD trip saturday (3/14). I assume we fall in the Australia bucket -- if it's not the Schengen area, no refunds?


Have you called? It’s a global CDC Level 2 and global US Dept of State Level 3.


----------



## Donalyn

I think that we all need to realize that this is an unprecedented world wide situation.  Even though a true pandemic had been predicted for years, our systems are not built for this - not our medical system, not our financial systems, etc.  And this is very country across the world.  (I mean, come on, it took the US disaster response organization (FEMA) 3 days to get water to the SuperDome in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina hit.  And we knew that was coming too.)  

And no company wanted to take the financial hits if they didn't have to, because there is a lot of money on the line up and down.  And businesses like Disney will be particularly hard hit by all of this.  Think of the impacts of this virus on some main Disney business lines - cruise ships, the parks, movies, etc.  There isn't an unlimited supply of cash out there to cover the losses.  

Now, do I think that some of the calls made are dumb.  Yes.  But everyone is just struggling through all of this uncharted territory.  Mistakes will be made.  Hopefully corrected.


----------



## JackieT1182

DisneyWishes14 said:


> As I've mentioned, I have two deposits with ABD currently with PIFs coming up in late March and late April.  At this point, I am inclined to park these deposits.  Given how they handled the March 13 UK/France ABD, I have zero faith they are prioritizing guest safety and well-being.  I really wish I had never booked with them in the first place.  After I figure out what to do with these deposits, unless they come out, very soon, with some grand gesture toward guests who are booked within the next 60 days or so, I will never book with them again.



I'm in a similar situation. I have no idea what to do! My PIF date is April 1 for our England/France trip. If I have to make a decision NOW what to do with our $30k+ trip, I'm leaning towards canceling it. However, if Disney delays our PIF date, I won't cancel (at least for now). 

I sent them an email asking them to please consider delaying the PIF date. I don't understand how Disney doesn't realize that this could benefit both them and their customers in the long run.


----------



## 2Gma

Donalyn said:


> I think that we all need to realize that this is an unprecedented world wide situation.  E
> And no company wanted to take the financial hits if they didn't have to, because there is a lot of money on the line up and down.  And businesses like Disney will be particularly hard hit by all of this.  Think of the impacts of this virus on some main Disney business lines - cruise ships, the parks, movies, etc.  There isn't an unlimited supply of cash out there to cover the losses.



Agree with the overall statement being unprecedented territory but alot of major companies will probably receive government bailouts or tax incentives while the average consumer will see nothing but their empty pocketbooks!

ETA: Moderator if/where appropriate can you tell me where to start a thread for "company reactions (good/bad) to Coronavirus". A place where people can share their experiences, I'm sure alot of people are looking for answers as well.  Not sure what board is most appropriate. Thanks.


----------



## JandT'smom

I am upset that ABD has not at least canceled through April they are just doing bare minimum ,basically what they are forced to do in allowing cancellations and rebooking  Soooo sorry I booked with them never again Is there an official channel to voice our dissatisfaction besides calling? It was beyond comprehension that they were going ahead with the England/France trip this week and people were already on there way before canceling.


----------



## lovetotravel

JandT'smom said:


> I am upset that ABD has not at least canceled through April they are just doing bare minimum ,basically what they are forced to do in allowing cancellations and rebooking Soooo sorry I booked with them never again Is there an official channel to voice our dissatisfaction besides calling? It was beyond comprehension that they were going ahead with the England/France trip this week and people were already on there way before canceling.


Besides leaving a review on Google and TripAdvisor, maybe starting a list of good/bad company policies would be helpful.

I'm happy to try out Tauck at this point for my new bookings.


----------



## Candycane83

lovetotravel said:


> Besides leaving a review on Google and TripAdvisor, maybe starting a list of good/bad company policies would be helpful.
> 
> I'm happy to try out Tauck at this point for my new bookings.


It took me 15mins to change my booking to Costa Rica to next year. It was extremely easy. I kind of regret booking my Danube with ABD and not Tauck for next Christmas. I will definitely choose Tauck in the future.


----------



## lovetotravel

JackieT1182 said:


> I'm in a similar situation. I have no idea what to do! My PIF date is April 1 for our England/France trip. If I have to make a decision NOW what to do with our $30k+ trip, I'm leaning towards canceling it. However, if Disney delays our PIF date, I won't cancel (at least for now).
> 
> I sent them an email asking them to please consider delaying the PIF date. I don't understand how Disney doesn't realize that this could benefit both them and their customers in the long run.


Don't pay the PIF in April until there are huge signs of improvement. I regret having 2 PIF ABDs upcoming in a few months.


----------



## lovetotravel

DisneyWishes14 said:


> As I've mentioned, I have two deposits with ABD currently with PIFs coming up in late March and late April.  At this point, I am inclined to park these deposits.  Given how they handled the March 13 UK/France ABD, I have zero faith they are prioritizing guest safety and well-being.  I really wish I had never booked with them in the first place.  After I figure out what to do with these deposits, unless they come out, very soon, with some grand gesture toward guests who are booked within the next 60 days or so, I will never book with them again.


As I mentioned in another post, don't be like me with 2 PIF ABDs this summer. It's not worth the stress and anxiety.


----------



## BrerNashville

Candycane83 said:


> It took me 15mins to change my booking to Costa Rica to next year. It was extremely easy. I kind of regret booking my Danube with ABD and not Tauck for next Christmas. I will definitely choose Tauck in the future.



I assume the PIF date had not passed?


----------



## neurosx1983

Well, with everything going on, I feel too uncomfortable getting on a 15 hr flight to Hawaii so we are cancelling that too...going to just road trip it somewhere...maybe WDW.


----------



## Rapunzellover

BrerNashville said:


> I assume the PIF date had not passed?



PIF date passing means little with Tauck.  In 2018, I canceled a Portugal trip 26 hrs before leaving because my back went out.  I had to pay change fee for air and they put $1500 in an account for future use (which I used for 2019).  But I got the rest back.  The change fee was the price of travel insurance so I didn't buy travel insurance, just medical travel ins. elsewhere (which I actually never bought because my back was so bad i thought I was gonna cancel- did buy it the next year.)

The best part?  I got the air special they had for 2019 so even with the change fee from 2018, I spent less money on the trip when I rebooked in 2019.

Tauck has really impressed me.  I got no hassle canceling Scotland in August (I'm waiting to plan anything now).


----------



## Rapunzellover

neurosx1983 said:


> Well, with everything going on, I feel too uncomfortable getting on a 15 hr flight to Hawaii so we are cancelling that too...going to just road trip it somewhere...maybe WDW.



I would avoid theme parks.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

I wanted to share with everyone the e-mail that I just received from Quark. I am very impressed. I am thinking of moving our trip to August and seeing where things stand at that point. 

On the travel front, I am debating on whether or not we should go home to Toronto for Easter / Passover. It's a 3 hour flight, but being in an airport, on a plane, etc. just doesn't feel like the right thing for us to do. I hate to miss the holiday with mine (Toronto) and dh's (Montreal) family, but I have to think about our health. I can wait until 2 hours before boarding to cancel our flights with Air Canada, so I have time to decide.

_I understand you are looking for more information on our Coronavirus policies. I am currently away from my desk as I am working with my executive team to develop this information. 

We will be updating our position on the Coronavirus shortly, but to give you an idea of what is being proposed, we understand that our travellers still want to travel to the Arctic, but are concerned about their ability to travel safely.  As we do not know what the global travel situation will be in June 2020 we are offering travellers the ability to rebook onto a future voyage up to 30 days prior to your scheduled departure date.  This means you could wait until May 5, 2020 to see how the situation changes and if you do not feel comfortable to travel in June you can transfer the value of your booking to any voyage departing before December 31, 2021.

Currently we are expecting to be able to operate our Arctic 2020 season.  In the event this situation changes and Quark Expeditions cancels your voyage we would offer you a refund of your expedition cost. _

I checked Quark's schedule and our cruise isn't available in August, which is the only other time we could actually travel. Oy. They have another one that sounds interesting, but it's 15 days and is $10,000.00 more. I don't really want to spend 15 days on a ship this summer, so we might still be stuck. I guess we will wait them out for a while longer. Not sure what we will do about Scott Dunn -- I e-mailed them asking if I could push my PIF to 30 days before departure because I really want to go on the trip, but don't want to pay the full amount at this time. We shall see what they come back with.

I learned a lesson with this virus. That is, never to pay a $5,000.00 deposit on a land trip. If I were to do this again I would be willing to make a $1,500.00 or $2,500.00 deposit, but $5,000.00 is excessive. The only reason my PIF is 60 days before departure (their usual is 90 days) is that I asked that it be moved to a date where I would have my Russian visa in hand (it arrived yesterday).


----------



## lovetotravel

neurosx1983 said:


> Well, with everything going on, I feel too uncomfortable getting on a 15 hr flight to Hawaii so we are cancelling that too...going to just road trip it somewhere...maybe WDW.


Many small area beaches around FL and near WDW, although cases are increasing daily. Have not heard much about Orlando cases and they are cancelling a lot of conferences. I heard hand washing/sanitation stations are everywhere at WDW.

Driving and camping seems like the safest bet!


----------



## Calfan

So so much craziness in the last 24 hours!  My DD and I are scheduled to leave for Scotland on March 29, arriving March 30 (we fly from Maui to the Bay Area on March 28 and are leaving for Scotland out of SFO).  For the time being, I am leaving everything in place.  Our outbound flights are exclusively U.S. and U.K. on BA.  Our return flights on April 2 were on Lufthansa through Frankfurt, so that of course no longer seems like a good option/high chance that one could be cancelled.  So this morning I booked alternative return flights on BA from Glasgow through Heathrow back to the U.S.  Our original return flights were in Business, but I was able to get Premium Economy on BA using 50k Avios each.   I can cancel within 24 hours if the situation worsens or if the universities cancel their Offer Holder days.  (So far both university websites indicate the days are still on.)  Worst case is a $55 redeposit fee per ticket, which I'm hopeful BA would waive if the travel restrictions are extended to the U.K. or the universities close and/or cancel their events.  I'm going to wait on cancelling our original return flights to see if Lufthansa cancels first so I don't have to call and try to get my United miles redeposited without a fee.  It seems like the possibility of our going is growing slimmer and slimmer, but I want to maintain optionality for as long as possible for DD's sake.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Calfan said:


> So so much craziness in the last 24 hours!  My DD and I are scheduled to leave for Scotland on March 29, arriving March 30 (we fly from Maui to the Bay Area on March 28 and are leaving for Scotland out of SFO).  For the time being, I am leaving everything in place.  Our outbound flights are exclusively U.S. and U.K. on BA.  Our return flights on April 2 were on Lufthansa through Frankfurt, so that of course no longer seems like a good option/high chance that one could be cancelled.  So this morning I booked alternative return flights on BA from Glasgow through Heathrow back to the U.S.  Our original return flights were in Business, but I was able to get Premium Economy on BA using 50k Avios each.   I can cancel within 24 hours if the situation worsens or if the universities cancel their Offer Holder days.  (So far both university websites indicate the days are still on.)  Worst case is a $55 redeposit fee per ticket, which I'm hopeful BA would waive if the travel restrictions are extended to the U.K. or the universities close and/or cancel their events.  I'm going to wait on cancelling our original return flights to see if Lufthansa cancels first so I don't have to call and try to get my United miles redeposited without a fee.  It seems like the possibility of our going is growing slimmer and slimmer, but I want to maintain optionality for as long as possible for DD's sake.


Dd's school e-mailed this morning with a list of the colleges in the US that have cancelled tours and days planned for confirmed freshman over spring break and it's extensive. I hope your trip continues as scheduled -- so much is changing daily it's impossible to know where things will stand on the 29th.


----------



## SteveW8002

I'm really in a quandary on what to do about our trip this July to Italy and Switzerland.  The PIF date is 3/24, so I need to decide soon.  Losing the deposit is not fun, however, from what I've seen on this thread, ABD can't seem to be trusted to make the right decisions on canceling trips.  Things could improve dramatically by July, but they may not.  I feel bad complaining about not being able to go on an expensive vacation while this crisis is unfolding.  But this is a safe place to vent to people who are in the same predicament.


----------



## sayhello

SteveW8002 said:


> I'm really in a quandary on what to do about our trip this July to Italy and Switzerland.  The PIF date is 3/24, so I need to decide soon.  Losing the deposit is not fun, however, from what I've seen on this thread, ABD can't seem to be trusted to make the right decisions on canceling trips.  Things could improve dramatically by July, but they may not.  I feel bad complaining about not being able to go on an expensive vacation while this crisis is unfolding.  But this is a safe place to vent to people who are in the same predicament.


I'd call ABD and ask them about pushing the PIF date.  Tell them if you have to decide by 3/24, you're going to have to decide to cancel.  Maybe if enough people tell them that, they'll at the least push the PIF dates.

Sayhello


----------



## LuvOrlando

morgan98 said:


> My husband is still flying into Milan tomorrow.  He contacted the people running next week's wine certification course in Florence and they have no intention of cancelling.  I think cancelling everything is a big risk too - the world economy cannot just come to a grinding halt.   Especially when almost half the cases in Italy are quarantined at home with no symptoms or minor symptoms.  I would like to think I will still be leaving for Italy on March 12th as well - however, I think we may have to rethink our plans.
> 
> I think this is already way more widespread than we are acknowledging.  There is just not widespread testing unless people are in a specifically identified group.
> 
> Please don't misunderstand me,  I do not want people to get sick and die.  But it seems this only severely impacts high risk populations and the cat is already out of the bag....  Not sure how you are supposed to track cold/flu like symptoms around the work and assume it is Coronavirus.



How is your husband now? Safe I hope


----------



## SteveW8002

sayhello said:


> I'd call ABD and ask them about pushing the PIF date.  Tell them if you have to decide by 3/24, you're going to have to decide to cancel.  Maybe if enough people tell them that, they'll at the least push the PIF dates.
> 
> Sayhello



Just sent an email to my dreams agent.


----------



## laceltris3

SteveW8002 said:


> I'm really in a quandary on what to do about our trip this July to Italy and Switzerland.  The PIF date is 3/24, so I need to decide soon.  Losing the deposit is not fun, however, from what I've seen on this thread, ABD can't seem to be trusted to make the right decisions on canceling trips.  Things could improve dramatically by July, but they may not.  I feel bad complaining about not being able to go on an expensive vacation while this crisis is unfolding.  But this is a safe place to vent to people who are in the same predicament.


 It *may* be fine by July. I haven't cancelled my France trip for the end of June. But I also know that I have until 30 days out to PIF and can still cancel with 100% credit for future travel with a business that has my goodwill (Tauck). 

Given ABD's handling, there is NO WAY I would PIF on a trip with them. This March 13 England/France handling is a disgrace. I mean, If they changed PIF dates and cancellation policies in the next 10 days, maybe, but I wouldn't hold my breath.


----------



## LuvOrlando

Magnum_PI said:


> I just got back to the US from London 13 days ago.  No covid19/illness yet (knock on wood!), and I am "immunocompromised" due to some medicines I take!  I'm sure you'll be fine, enjoy your trip!



I'm same as you, did your Dr give you any direction?  Mine was oddly quiet when I asked if there was an action plan for high risk such as us and when I texted back a few vague questions a hospital staff nurse stepped in and redirected me - it was weird


----------



## TXTransplant

The PIF date for our Nat Geo Alaska trip was last week, and I did so with no hesitation.  It's a week later, and I'm feeling anxious - about the trip, about the fact that we have two cases in my immediate area, about the fact that my son is with his dad out of state (flies home on Sunday), about the fact that school will probably be cancelled next week (and probably the week after that)...

The last 24 hours have totally shifted the mood in my area.

The Nat Geo trip is June 3-10.  I've received no communication from them at all, but I figure they have plenty of other customers with imminent trips that need their attention.  At this point, I'm telling myself that, if things get worse, Nat Geo will cancel and I'll get my $ back.  That's about all I can do.


----------



## sayhello

I just read via a very reliable source on fb that ABD are offering folks with trips through May 31st the option to move your trip to another date.  (it didn't say if it was another date of the same itinerary, or if you could switch).  You must make this decision before your current trip date.  You also have the option to park the money, but have to move that money to a trip by Dec 31, 2020, or you forfeit it.  If you got an EBD, you get to keep it, but it sounds like, other than that, your new trip will be booked at the current going rate (but if there is a current discount that is better than the EBD, you'll get the better deal).  Any money left over after re-booking will be refunded after you re-book. 

Full refunds are only being offered if ABD cancels the trip.

People whose trips fall in this timeframe should hear from ABD soon (or their TAs should).

I haven't gotten anything official yet.

Sayhello


----------



## laceltris3

sayhello said:


> I just read via a very reliable source on fb that ABD are offering folks with trips through May 31st the option to move your trip to another date.  (it didn't say if it was another date of the same itinerary, or if you could switch).  You must make this decision before your current trip date.  You also have the option to park the money, but have to move that money to a trip by Dec 31, 2020, or you forfeit it.  If you got an EBD, you get to keep it, but it sounds like, other than that, your new trip will be booked at the current going rate (but if there is a current discount that is better than the EBD, you'll get the better deal).  Any money left over after re-booking will be refunded after you re-book.
> 
> Full refunds are only being offered if ABD cancels the trip.
> 
> People whose trips fall in this timeframe should hear from ABD soon (or their TAs should).
> 
> I haven't gotten anything official yet.
> 
> Sayhello


 This seems to be another reason for me to continue to hate ABD's dynamic pricing and EBDs.  And it's still not great with a 12/31/20 limit, given that no one knows how this is going to go down, especially if all of summer vacation is impacted.


----------



## morgan98

LuvOrlando said:


> How is your husband now? Safe I hope



My husband arrived home to Atlanta on late Monday night and is self quarantining for 14 days.  He feels fine.  I am working from home out of abundance of caution.  I don't want to be that person.

I was supposed to be flying to Milan today, as a matter of fact.

It has been a crazy three weeks for us at this house for sure.


----------



## Theta

sayhello said:


> I just read via a very reliable source on fb that ABD are offering folks with trips through May 31st the option to move your trip to another date.  (it didn't say if it was another date of the same itinerary, or if you could switch).  You must make this decision before your current trip date.  You also have the option to park the money, but have to move that money to a trip by Dec 31, 2020, or you forfeit it.  If you got an EBD, you get to keep it, but it sounds like, other than that, your new trip will be booked at the current going rate (but if there is a current discount that is better than the EBD, you'll get the better deal).  Any money left over after re-booking will be refunded after you re-book.
> 
> Full refunds are only being offered if ABD cancels the trip.
> 
> People whose trips fall in this timeframe should hear from ABD soon (or their TAs should).
> 
> I haven't gotten anything official yet.
> 
> Sayhello




I wonder if I park my money and then book for next year when the new dates are released, would this be considered the "one time transfer" of deposit or would I be eligible to move it again to a different date if need be.


----------



## lovetotravel

sayhello said:


> I just read via a very reliable source on fb that ABD are offering folks with trips through May 31st the option to move your trip to another date.  (it didn't say if it was another date of the same itinerary, or if you could switch).  You must make this decision before your current trip date.  You also have the option to park the money, but have to move that money to a trip by Dec 31, 2020, or you forfeit it.  If you got an EBD, you get to keep it, but it sounds like, other than that, your new trip will be booked at the current going rate (but if there is a current discount that is better than the EBD, you'll get the better deal).  Any money left over after re-booking will be refunded after you re-book.
> 
> Full refunds are only being offered if ABD cancels the trip.
> 
> People whose trips fall in this timeframe should hear from ABD soon (or their TAs should).
> 
> I haven't gotten anything official yet.
> 
> Sayhello


Thanks for posting! Can’t wait to read the details. Too bad my trips are after May 31!


----------



## sayhello

JEJ said:


> When I took my first ABD a few years ago, this was the unofficial policy, although it is contradicted by the actual terms and conditions, and I got no pushback when I moved my deposit.  I tried to park my deposit this year, a week or so ago, before my paid in full date and was flatly and repeatedly told no, and had the terms and conditions repeatedly cited to me.  Only after we escalated to a supervisor (and after spending probably 6-7 additional hours on the phone and on hold) did ABD relent and give us a placeholder date.  It was unreal, and contrary to the high level of customer service I have received from Disney and ABD in the past.


Wow!  That's been their policy for years now!  I didn't really realize it was "unofficial"!


Theta said:


> I wonder if I park my money and then book for next year when the new dates are released, would this be considered the "one time transfer" of deposit or would I be eligible to move it again to a different date if need be.


Seeing as the above post by JEJ indicates that ABD is balking at honoring their previous "one time transfer" unofficial policy, I wouldn't count on it.

Sayhello


----------



## Cliffside

sayhello said:


> I just read via a very reliable source on fb that ABD are offering folks with trips through May 31st the option to move your trip to another date.  (it didn't say if it was another date of the same itinerary, or if you could switch).  You must make this decision before your current trip date.  You also have the option to park the money, but have to move that money to a trip by Dec 31, 2020, or you forfeit it.  If you got an EBD, you get to keep it, but it sounds like, other than that, your new trip will be booked at the current going rate (but if there is a current discount that is better than the EBD, you'll get the better deal).  Any money left over after re-booking will be refunded after you re-book.
> 
> Full refunds are only being offered if ABD cancels the trip.
> 
> People whose trips fall in this timeframe should hear from ABD soon (or their TAs should).
> 
> I haven't gotten anything official yet.
> 
> Sayhello


Do you have to travel by 12/31/20 or just book it. If it is travel that is not enough time. I have heard of no other travel company giving less than a year to use it.

I thought I would be booking more ABD’s after this one, but it doesn’t seem like that will happen. Tauck and Viking seem to be much customer service oriented. I guess my Disney bubble has burst.


----------



## sayhello

Cliffside said:


> Do you have to travel by 12/31/20 or just book it. If it is travel that is not enough time. I have heard of no other travel company giving less than a year to use it.
> 
> I thought I would be booking more ABD’s after this one, but it doesn’t seem like that will happen. Tauck and Viking seem to be much customer service oriented. I guess my Disney bubble has burst.


My understanding is you have to *book* it by 12/31/2020.  

Sayhello


----------



## laceltris3

Cliffside said:


> Do you have to travel by 12/31/20 or just book it. If it is travel that is not enough time. I have heard of no other travel company giving less than a year to use it.
> 
> I thought I would be booking more ABD’s after this one, but it doesn’t seem like that will happen. Tauck and Viking seem to be much customer service oriented. I guess my Disney bubble has burst.


 Hmmmm... the refund of the excess makes me wonder if a work around would be to switch to a much cheaper trip, like SoCal short escape, so you could get the excess refunded and have less at risk with ABD.


----------



## sayhello

laceltris3 said:


> Hmmmm... the refund of the excess makes me wonder if a work around would be to switch to a much cheaper trip, like SoCal short escape, so you could get the excess refunded and have less at risk with ABD.


I'm not positive from the wording if it's "move to another date of the same trip" or "move to another trip and date".  I think they're accounting for moving from a departure that had gone up in price to a departure that hadn't, or was currently discounted.  But it's ambiguous.  I'm hoping the official communication is more detailed.

Sayhello


----------



## BrerNashville

Cliffside said:


> Do you have to travel by 12/31/20 or just book it. If it is travel that is not enough time. I have heard of no other travel company giving less than a year to use it.
> 
> I thought I would be booking more ABD’s after this one, but it doesn’t seem like that will happen. Tauck and Viking seem to be much customer service oriented. I guess my Disney bubble has burst.



I just got my email giving me this opportunity. I have the same question -- does travel have to be completed by 12/31/20, or just booked. If the former, that's not much of a "deal".

Wow, not on hold very long. Just has to be *booked* by 12/31/2020.


----------



## Theta

Cliffside said:


> Do you have to travel by 12/31/20 or just book it. If it is travel that is not enough time. I have heard of no other travel company giving less than a year to use it.
> 
> I thought I would be booking more ABD’s after this one, but it doesn’t seem like that will happen. Tauck and Viking seem to be much customer service oriented. I guess my Disney bubble has burst.




Here is the exact wording, sounds like you have to make your decision by 12/31/2020:

_Additionally, we are offering a temporary adjustment to our Adventure Vacation Date Change Policy to provide more flexibility for our guests. Guests currently booked on Adventures through May 31 can change their reservation up until the day before arrival and receive a 100% credit to be used toward a future Adventure. *Guests may select a new travel date* and/or an alternate Adventure by December 31, 2020, by calling the telephone number above. The credit is non-refundable and standard prevailing rates will apply. _


----------



## BrerNashville

In other words, the trip can be in 2021 as long as you book it by 12/31/20.

They will "park" your money until 12/31, so you don't have to pick a new trip until you do (must pick it by 12/31/2020)


----------



## lovetotravel

Theta said:


> Here is the exact wording, sounds like you have to make your decision by 12/21/2020:
> 
> _Additionally, we are offering a temporary adjustment to our Adventure Vacation Date Change Policy to provide more flexibility for our guests. Guests currently booked on Adventures through May 31 can change their reservation up until the day before arrival and receive a 100% credit to be used toward a future Adventure. *Guests may select a new travel date* and/or an alternate Adventure by December 31, 2020, by calling the telephone number above. The credit is non-refundable and standard prevailing rates will apply. _


Happy with any policy at this point. Hopefully they will adjust the May 31 date as needed. The "credit is non-refundable" clause is confusing to me.


----------



## BrerNashville

I'm sure it means that if you book a cheaper trip, you won't get the difference back, and not at all if you don't book one.


----------



## lovetotravel

OMG the Uniworld policy wow:

_Service is simply a part of our DNA; it's who we are and one of the reasons that you have entrusted us with your time, your most valuable asset. It is also why we must share difficult news with you today. We have been closely monitoring the world's response to the COVID-19 pandemic and given recent news, we do not believe we can continue to offer the award-winning Uniworld experience you have come to expect and deserve at this time. We have therefore made the decision to suspend all European itineraries until April 23rd. If you have a vacation reservation during this temporary suspension period, please know you may rebook your travel dates to any 2020 or 2021 cruise or receive a Future Cruise Credit eligible to be used during the next 24 months.

We know this global situation has caused confusion and anxiety for many; the details of your travel plans should not add to your list of concerns. Our updated cancellation policy will allow guests more time to make decisions about upcoming travels. For bookings after April 23rd, guests can now cancel up to 14 days prior to their cruise and rebook on any 2020 or 2021 cruise without penalty or have the option to rebook with one of our TTC sister brands – from Trafalgar to Insight Vacations – for 2020 to 2021. Full details on our updated cancellation policy may be found *here *. Our team stands at the ready to assist you as we navigate through this process together._


----------



## sayhello

Theta said:


> Here is the exact wording, sounds like you have to make your decision by 12/31/2020:
> 
> _Additionally, we are offering a temporary adjustment to our Adventure Vacation Date Change Policy to provide more flexibility for our guests. Guests currently booked on Adventures through May 31 can change their reservation up until the day before arrival and receive a 100% credit to be used toward a future Adventure. *Guests may select a new travel date* and/or an alternate Adventure by December 31, 2020, by calling the telephone number above. The credit is non-refundable and standard prevailing rates will apply. _


Thanks for this.  Answers a lot of questions.


lovetotravel said:


> Happy with any policy at this point. Hopefully they will adjust the May 31 date as needed. The "credit is non-refundable" clause is confusing to me.


My understanding is, they're trying to do this on a "rolling" basis.  If they offered the deal to everyone now, they'd be inundated, and it would take hours or days to get through.  So they are dealing with it in chunks.  Once they get a handle on the changes through May 31st, they'll probably open it up to June or July.

Sayhello


----------



## lovetotravel

sayhello said:


> Thanks for this.  Answers a lot of questions.
> My understanding is, they're trying to do this on a "rolling" basis.  If they offered the deal to everyone now, they'd be inundated, and it would take hours or days to get through.  So they are dealing with it in chunks.  Once they get a handle on the changes through May 31st, they'll probably open it up to June or July.
> 
> Sayhello


I would be far less stressed if offered to all summer trips. But I understand it's too far to tell. 
A cancellation of the trip is the best option to get airfare back, but I'm happy not to loose so much with this policy than have nothing at all.


----------



## Lalovestotravel

I spoke with ABD today. I was scheduled on the 3/27 England/France trip. They gave me 3 options:
1) change to any other England and France date (even if the cost is higher)
2) change to any other adventure for 2020 but would pay difference in price if applicable 
3) fully refundable
Because I have a bad taste in my mouth about how they treated this situation, we went with a full refund. Unfortunately, ABD does offer some of the best tours but their customer service through this whole ordeal has been a nightmare. 
good luck to everyone on your fight with ABD!


----------



## lovetotravel

Lalovestotravel said:


> I spoke with ABD today. I was scheduled on the 3/27 England/France trip. They gave me 3 options:
> 1) change to any other England and France date (even if the cost is higher)
> 2) change to any other adventure for 2020 but would pay difference in price if applicable
> 3) fully refundable
> Because I have a bad taste in my mouth about how they treated this situation, we went with a full refund. Unfortunately, ABD does offer some of the best tours but their customer service through this whole ordeal has been a nightmare.
> good luck to everyone on your fight with ABD!


Was your trip cancelled or you are just getting a refund based on the new policy?


----------



## Lalovestotravel

lovetotravel said:


> Was your trip cancelled or you are just getting a refund based on the new policy?


It was cancelled due to traveling to Europe ban.


----------



## Donalyn

2Gma said:


> Agree with the overall statement being unprecedented territory but alot of major companies will probably receive government bailouts or tax incentives while the average consumer will see nothing but their empty pocketbooks!



Yes, there will be bail-outs of major corporations, but there will also be stuff for the average American.  And remember, major corporations employ average Americans.  And, ABD travelers likely are much above average.

And the person who said that they would do a road trip to WDW - it very well may be closed.  Again, we are in uncharted territory here.


----------



## sayhello

So Disneyland is closing due to COVID-19.  No details.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/12/media/disneyland-close-coronavirus/index.html

*ETA:*   according to the New York Times:



> Disneyland Park and Disney California Adventure — two adjoining, but separately ticketed theme parks — will close on Saturday morning through the end of the month. Disney’s hotels in Anaheim will remain open until Monday.
> 
> Disney noted that there had been no reported cases of the virus at the resort.



Sayhello


----------



## TarotFox

There are more details on their official statement. Parks are closing until at least the end of the month and hotels are closing a few days later to give people a chance to turn around. Downtown Disney is staying open.


----------



## JandT'smom

Got a phone call from ABD to call back as there as been significant changes to my 4/27 trip England and Paris on hold for 25 minutes waiting to talk to someone, anyone else get this call??


----------



## sayhello

JandT'smom said:


> Got a phone call from ABD to call back as there as been significant changes to my 4/27 trip England and Paris on hold for 25 minutes waiting to talk to someone, anyone else get this call??


I thought I'd read that they are cancelling all European ABDs for the next 30 days due to Trump's announcement last night.  Perhaps it's through the end of April?  

Please let us know what they say once you get through!

Sayhello


----------



## JandT'smom

sayhello said:


> I thought I'd read that they are cancelling all European ABDs for the next 30 days due to Trump's announcement last night.  Perhaps it's through the end of April?
> 
> Please let us know what they say once you get through!
> 
> Sayhello


I will still on hold, checked email and nothing from them.


----------



## sayhello

TarotFox said:


> There are more details on their official statement. Parks are closing until at least the end of the month and hotels are closing a few days later to give people a chance to turn around. Downtown Disney is staying open.


Thanks!  Finally got through to that page.

https://disneyland.disney.go.com/travel-information/



> *Update on Disneyland Resort Operations*
> While there have been no reported cases of COVID-19 at Disneyland Resort, after carefully reviewing the guidelines of the Governor of California’s executive order and in the best interest of our guests and employees, we are proceeding with the closure of Disneyland Park and Disney California Adventure Park, beginning the morning of March 14 through the end of the month.
> 
> The Hotels of Disneyland Resort will remain open until Monday, March 16 to give guests the ability to make necessary travel arrangements; Downtown Disney will remain open. We will monitor the ongoing situation and follow the advice and guidance of federal and state officials and health agencies. Disney will continue to pay cast members during this time.
> 
> Disneyland Resort will work with guests who wish to change or cancel their visits, and will provide refunds to those who have hotel bookings during this closure period. We anticipate heavy call volume over the next several days and appreciate guests’ patience as we work hard to respond to all inquiries.
> 
> Please contact The Walt Disney Travel Company for questions and cancellations at (714) 520-5050.



Sayhello


----------



## DisneyKevin

The April 27th England France trip has been canceled.


----------



## disneyholic family

the dow jones fell 10% today?   did i just hear that correctly?....
oh well....eventually there will be bargains to be had..


----------



## TarotFox

I'm trying to stay positive about that and just pretend that stocks are like on sale. Hard to look at my 401k though...


----------



## disneyholic family

neurosx1983 said:


> Well, with everything going on, I feel too uncomfortable getting on a 15 hr flight to Hawaii so we are cancelling that too...going to just road trip it somewhere...maybe WDW.



to be honest, i'm happy to hear you've decided to road trip it.....airports are no go zones right now...
unless you really HAVE to fly, best to keep your feet on the ground...
as for WDW, now that they've closed DL, i wonder if they're going to do the same with WDW...
these are uncharted waters for us now...
we know how it began, hard to know how it will end...
.


----------



## disneyholic family

TarotFox said:


> I'm trying to stay positive about that and just pretend that stocks are like on sale. Hard to look at my 401k though...



best not to look...and definitely don't sell at this point....it's a bumpy ride, but what goes down, will eventually go up again..
it may take a very long time,  a very very long time, but things always eventually turn around..

.


----------



## disneyholic family

updating from my little corner of the world - 
our prime minister proposed tonight an Emergency National Unity Government.
Something that is only done during major war.  
so that kind of sums up where we all are.

.


----------



## JandT'smom

So just got off the phone with adventures by Disney about my April 27 England France trip it was canceled I have a choice of a full refund, booking England and France later this year, or switching to a different adventure. Opted for the full refund


----------



## sayhello

TarotFox said:


> I'm trying to stay positive about that and just pretend that stocks are like on sale. Hard to look at my 401k though...


I'm not looking.    

Sayhello


----------



## sayhello

JandT'smom said:


> So just got off the phone with adventures by Disney about my April 27 England France trip it was canceled I have a choice of a full refund, booking England and France later this year, or switching to a different adventure. Opted for the full refund


At this point, I'd have totally done the same.

Sayhello


----------



## Magnum_PI

LuvOrlando said:


> I'm same as you, did your Dr give you any direction?  Mine was oddly quiet when I asked if there was an action plan for high risk such as us and when I texted back a few vague questions a hospital staff nurse stepped in and redirected me - it was weird



It probably depends on why you're immunocompromised.  In my case, it's immunosuppressant meds I take for an autoimmune condition.  My rheumatologist told me to stop the meds if I develop upper respiratory symptoms, but otherwise continue them, and to avoid travel for 2 or 3 months.  I would press your doctor for direct guidance, it all depends on your unique clinical picture...!


----------



## JEJ

sayhello said:


> Wow!  That's been their policy for years now!  I didn't really realize it was "unofficial"!
> Seeing as the above post by JEJ indicates that ABD is balking at honoring their previous "one time transfer" unofficial policy, I wouldn't count on it.
> 
> Sayhello



Hopefully, ABD is being more reasonable now given how things have accelerated in the last few days.  I feel really bad for those who have PIF and are in limbo.  Losing a deposit would be annoying, and leave a bad taste in my mouth for sure (and, given the circumstances, would have been contrary to Disney's reputation for customer service), but it wouldn't have been the end of the world.


----------



## disneyholic family

our PIF is in June.  I booked this particular ABD because the podcasters are leading it, but i think i'm going to cancel when June rolls around.
I don't know where we'll be with corona by that point.  There are vaccines on the horizon, but i doubt they'll already be available by our trip in October, so i wouldn't want to fly halfway around the world in that situation.
I'll lose the $1000 deposit, and the change/cancellation fee for our flights to LA, but i can live with that.  
Not sure how my husband is going to feel since the tail end of the trip involves business meetings.  But he can do that by phone and skype, so probably not an issue either.
.


----------



## Woodview

Rest  of the World


----------



## disneyholic family

disney world is closing?
and DCL suspending cruises through the end of the month!
OMG


----------



## lovetotravel

ORLANDO, Fla. -- Walt Disney World Resort in Florida will temporarily close due to the spread of the novel coronavirus, the Walt Disney Co. said Thursday evening.

The closure will go into effect Sunday, March 15 and last through the end of March. Disneyland Paris will also temporarily close and Disney Cruise will suspend all new departures.

"Out of an abundance of caution and in the best interest of our guests and employees, we are proceeding with the closure of our theme parks at Walt Disney World Resort in Florida and Disneyland Paris Resort, beginning at the close of business on Sunday, March 15, through the end of the month. Disney Cruise Line will suspend all new departures beginning Saturday, March 14, through the end of the month," the company said in a statement.

Cast members will be paid during the closure, and the hotels at both Walt Disney World and Disneyland Paris will remain open until further notice, as will the retail and dining complexes at Disney Springs at Walt Disney World and Disney Village at Disneyland Paris.

https://abc7ny.com/health/disney-wo...wn-in-response-to-coronavirus-threat/6008169/


----------



## neurosx1983

We are going to palm beach...destined to do something on this vacation and not stay home! I’m glad we decided against flying at the last minute.

So....since ABD let me move the trip amount before they announced they cancelled it, they aren’t going to let me have a full refund. I’m a little bummed but I just have to make sure i use it on another ABD this winter. Who the heck knows what state the world will be in then!


----------



## disneyholic family

neurosx1983 said:


> We are going to palm beach...destined to do something on this vacation and not stay home! I’m glad we decided against flying at the last minute.
> 
> So....since ABD let me move the trip amount before they announced they cancelled it, they aren’t going to let me have a full refund. I’m a little bummed but I just have to make sure i use it on another ABD this winter. Who the heck knows what state the world will be in then!



palm beach is good too.....seems to be a kind of end of the world scenario going on here...
have a nice time with your family!!!! at least it probably won't be crowded..
.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

I am still trying to process this -- the Cdn Prime Minister's wife has tested positive. She travelled to the UK with his mom and their daughter, just returning a few days ago. Very, very sad news. He is in self-isolation at home. I can't even imagine.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Wow, get off a plane after 11 hours and boy have things changed. After I wanted to throw up looking at the stock market, I saw the news about Disneyland, Disney World, and the Canadian PM's wife. Glad to be home, but it actually feels worse here. London was still fairly open compared to CA. I also saw the Princess ship docked at the Port of Oakland on our way home from SFO  I can't remember the last time I saw so little traffic on the Bay Bridge. Stay safe everyone.


----------



## Chloerobot

But why are you going to cancel it ?


----------



## Angell

Just got off the phone with AbD, they have canceled ALL departures from now until March 31. The decision was made this morning at 9 am EST, and emails are in the process of going out.


Additionally, they are putting some flexibility options in place for ALL departures through May 31. Watch your inboxes!


----------



## hilarys

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> Wow, get off a plane after 11 hours and boy have things changed. After I wanted to throw up looking at the stock market, I saw the news about Disneyland, Disney World, and the Canadian PM's wife. Glad to be home, but it actually feels worse here. London was still fairly open compared to CA. I also saw the Princess ship docked at the Port of Oakland on our way home from SFO  I can't remember the last time I saw so little traffic on the Bay Bridge. Stay safe everyone.


Glad you made it home safe - yes the lack of traffic is one plus side to this.  Palo Alto to Pleasanton evening commute which can take 2 hours normally has been taking 50 min this week.  I think my Aulani trip in three weeks is in serious jeopardy - the trend seems to be to tech businesses discouraging ALL commercial travel by employees unless they self quarantine after.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

I just spoke with Scott Dunn. They are finally allowing me to move my deposit to another date. I will have to pay any increase in cost for the hotels / tours that I booked (I am fine with this). I am thinking the end of August. If we go this route we won't be able to do the Quark cruise (they don't have the itinerary we booked in August). I don't want to commit to any dates until I know we will be safe.

Something interesting though. They said I have to keep Russia in my itinerary, because the agreement they made with their suppliers stipulates that they are permitted to move tours, but if they cancel them they will be out the money. The applications for the Russia visas were not fun, but I suppose I could do it again.

I am thankful that they are allowing us to move the deposit as I really wanted to complete this trip.


----------



## sayhello

Angell said:


> Just got off the phone with AbD, they have canceled ALL departures from now until March 31. The decision was made this morning at 9 am EST, and emails are in the process of going out.
> 
> 
> Additionally, they are putting some flexibility options in place for ALL departures through May 31. Watch your inboxes!


Thanks!  That's interesting about *ALL* departures for March being canceled!

I reported on the flexible options through May 31st yesterday.  If you look back, there was already some discussion about that.

Sayhello


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

hilarys said:


> Glad you made it home safe - yes the lack of traffic is one plus side to this.  Palo Alto to Pleasanton evening commute which can take 2 hours normally has been taking 50 min this week.  I think my Aulani trip in three weeks is in serious jeopardy - the trend seems to be to tech businesses discouraging ALL commercial travel by employees unless they self quarantine after.


Thanks! Yes, it was pretty unreal on the Bay Bridge. Just got a call from DD20 who goes to school in England that they are closing down and may not reopen for next term. Super bummed for her as she is graduating in the summer. Not sure what to do with all our plans for that. Had to cancel her award ticket to come home at the end of the month but was able to buy her a reasonable one-way fare on British Air to come back on Monday. Will be nice to have her home and not have to go through a self-quarantine again just when we will be done with ours, LOL. Our trip to Maui in early April is probably not going to happen, and I think WDW for RunDisney in April is also a no go. It's just not worth the risk of travel right now. There was a woman coughing the entire way home yesterday, and I was livid. Ending up wearing my mask most of the flight.


----------



## pdsgator

Well we are in Australia- the trip is scheduled to go forward on the 13th.  We get an email after arriving that we can re book trip.  Our vacationista manager didn’t even know the reschedule option applied. When we told him he said he would verify.

He said the that there were only 13 people on our trip out of 30+ ( the cancelled) and that those people were already here like us. And that they would go forward.

We are trying to decide what to do. Australia is now just canceling large events but pretty hard to enjoy the trip witj everything swirling.
Since we are are here, we don’t k own if we should just go forward since we would likely self isolate anyway upon return or if we are being crazy with all the evolving  issues to be so far from getting home and whether we can even enjoy the trip with the increasing hysteria.  
Trying to figure out what to do.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

pdsgator said:


> Well we are in Australia- the trip is scheduled to go forward on the 13th.  We get an email after arriving that we can re book trip.  Our vacationista manager didn’t even know the reschedule option applied. When we told him he said he would verify.
> 
> He said the that there were only 13 people on our trip out of 30+ ( the cancelled) and that those people were already here like us. And that they would go forward.
> 
> We are trying to decide what to do. Australia is now just canceling large events but pretty hard to enjoy the trip witj everything swirling.
> Since we are are here, we don’t k own if we should just go forward since we would likely self isolate anyway upon return or if we are being crazy with all the evolving  issues to be so far from getting home and whether we can even enjoy the trip with the increasing hysteria.
> Trying to figure out what to do.


Please stay safe. Prayers to you and your family.


----------



## Cliffside

Well ABD finally has put something on their website about Covid-19. Talk about a day late and a dollar short.

Still does not impact my trip ...we are on the June 20th Danube.


----------



## Calfan

As expected, United/Lufthansa made a schedule change to the return flights from Glasgow for DD and me.  I don't know why they didn't just cancel everything, but the schedule change showed a later flight from Glasgow to Frankfurt that was scheduled to arrive in Frankfurt 4 hours AFTER our second leg was supposed to depart Frankfurt for Denver.  I tried to request a refund via the United website (I booked with United miles) but wasn't able to do that because it was an active reservation (that I also couldn't cancel online, SMH).  I was surprised when I called United that they indicated a hold time of only 20 to 25 minutes.  Luckily I could just continue to work with the call on hold on my cell, because it was an hour and 40 minutes before I got transferred to a rep.  I think that's actually pretty good compared to some of the other airlines, travel companies.  Anyway, the rep was super nice and accommodating and cancelled the whole reservation, redeposited my miles with no fee (I already see them in my United account), and my taxes/fees will be refunded to my credit card.  Not looking forward to needing to unravel the other flights once the schools inevitably cancel their Offer Holder Days, but nothing on that yet....


----------



## lovetotravel

pdsgator said:


> Well we are in Australia- the trip is scheduled to go forward on the 13th.  We get an email after arriving that we can re book trip.  Our vacationista manager didn’t even know the reschedule option applied. When we told him he said he would verify.
> 
> He said the that there were only 13 people on our trip out of 30+ ( the cancelled) and that those people were already here like us. And that they would go forward.
> 
> We are trying to decide what to do. Australia is now just canceling large events but pretty hard to enjoy the trip witj everything swirling.
> Since we are are here, we don’t k own if we should just go forward since we would likely self isolate anyway upon return or if we are being crazy with all the evolving  issues to be so far from getting home and whether we can even enjoy the trip with the increasing hysteria.
> Trying to figure out what to do.


Positive: Less cases than US, less crowds

Negative: I would just be worried that you would be stuck there and not get home. Things will only get worse as the trip goes on. I have family that is stuck in Asia and can't come home. Flights are constantly changing and being cancelled.


----------



## Grifdog22

pdsgator said:


> Well we are in Australia- the trip is scheduled to go forward on the 13th.  We get an email after arriving that we can re book trip.  Our vacationista manager didn’t even know the reschedule option applied. When we told him he said he would verify.
> 
> He said the that there were only 13 people on our trip out of 30+ ( the cancelled) and that those people were already here like us. And that they would go forward.
> 
> We are trying to decide what to do. Australia is now just canceling large events but pretty hard to enjoy the trip witj everything swirling.
> Since we are are here, we don’t k own if we should just go forward since we would likely self isolate anyway upon return or if we are being crazy with all the evolving  issues to be so far from getting home and whether we can even enjoy the trip with the increasing hysteria.
> Trying to figure out what to do.



You have to do what works best  for you and your family.  Having taken the Australia trip, if we were in your shoes we would proceed.  There is little in this trip that is a large group setting, and frankly the trip is so amazing as to be distracting from problems beyond our individual ability to resolve.  Unless Trump's new "announcement" in an hour changes things, I think it would be very unlikely you would have to isolate from Australia upon your return.  I wish I were where you are now. Three days ago my twin DD were told not to return to college from spring break. This afternoon the public schools here closed.  My staff can't be here because of no childcare, and things are falling apart and we can't do a thing about it.  I would truly love the joy of Australia right now...and just thinking about it brings the first smile I've had all week.

Good luck to you.  Geez, an ABD Australia trip with 13.  Wow oh wow.


----------



## lovetotravel

Grifdog22 said:


> You have to do what works best  for you and your family.  Having taken the Australia trip, if we were in your shoes we would proceed.  There is little in this trip that is a large group setting, and frankly the trip is so amazing as to be distracting from problems beyond our individual ability to resolve.  Unless Trump's new "announcement" in an hour changes things, I think it would be very unlikely you would have to isolate from Australia upon your return.  I wish I were where you are now. Three days ago my twin DD were told not to return to college from spring break. This afternoon the public schools here closed.  My staff can't be here because of no childcare, and things are falling apart and we can't do a thing about it.  I would truly love the joy of Australia right now...and just thinking about it brings the first smile I've had all week.
> 
> Good luck to you.  Geez, an ABD Australia trip with 13.  Wow oh wow.


I can agree with this from a trip perspective. Things aren't entirely better at home. Just monitor your flights very closely. NYTimes had an article where people paid $5000 for a ticket to get home.


----------



## Rapunzellover

Pdsgator-  I would head immediately home from Australia. There's to be a state of emergency declared today for the entire US.  Get on a plane or you may very well get stuck.


----------



## lovetotravel

Rapunzellover said:


> Pdsgator-  I would head immediately home from Australia. There's to be a state of emergency declared today for the entire US.  Get on a plane or you may very well get stuck.


I can't even imagine what that announcement would entail! Fighting for last seats on a plane home would be horrific. There's not much options to get home from so far away. @pdsgator Please keep us updated on your status!


----------



## Networth

Rapunzellover said:


> Pdsgator-  I would head immediately home from Australia. There's to be a state of emergency declared today for the entire US.  Get on a plane or you may very well get stuck.



Americans have always be allowed back to the homeland. Likely, under a mandatory quarantine, but the government won’t refuse a citizen re-entry.


----------



## Grifdog22

lovetotravel said:


> I can agree with this from a trip perspective. Things aren't entirely better at home. Just monitor your flights very closely. NYTimes had an article where people paid $5000 for a ticket to get home.



There certainly was a mad rush to beat the deadline Trump imposed, only to discover it didn't apply.  I would think Disney can get you almost anywhere.


----------



## lovetotravel

Networth said:


> Americans have always be allowed back to the homeland. Likely, under a mandatory quarantine, but the government won’t refuse a citizen re-entry.


Allowed back yes, but I have family stuck in Asia with no flights. They have been trying to get home for weeks. There are no flights available and they are stuck there in a lock down in that country.


----------



## Networth

lovetotravel said:


> Allowed back yes, but I have family stuck in Asia with no flights. They have been trying to get home for weeks. There are no flights available and they are stuck there in a lock down in that country.



That is awful, have they reached out to the Embassy?


----------



## lovetotravel

Networth said:


> That is awful, have they reached out to the Embassy?


Good idea, I will check. There are no flights so that it the main issue.


----------



## Rapunzellover

Networth said:


> Americans have always be allowed back to the homeland. Likely, under a mandatory quarantine, but the government won’t refuse a citizen re-entry.



If they cancel flights, it's not about being allowed reentry. 
My CA school just went remote, and this is unprecedented.  I would not take chances.


----------



## Networth

Rapunzellover said:


> If they cancel flights, it's not about being allowed reentry.
> My CA school just went remote, and this is unprecedented.  I would not take chances.



The state department can charter flights or get you access to military flights in an emergency.


----------



## Rapunzellover

Networth said:


> The state department can charter flights or get you access to military flights in an emergency.



You're assuming a lot with that.


----------



## disneyholic family

Oh my god - 250 people died in italy today of coronavirus. The largest one day death toll.
I cry for them. That's what we're trying to avoid.
250 people in one day.
bringing the total dead in italy to 1,266

as for confirmed cases in italy...
the total as of today is 17,600 with 2,547 new cases today..

editing to add on France and the UK:
France's total confirmed cases as of today are 3,661 (an increase of 785 today)
In the UK, total confirmed cases as of today are 798 (an increase of 208 today)
.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

disneyholic family said:


> Oh my god - 250 people died in italy today of coronavirus. The largest one day death toll.
> I cry for them. That's what we're trying to avoid.
> 250 people in one day.
> bringing the total dead in italy to 1,266
> 
> as for confirmed cases in italy...
> the total as of today is 17,600 with 2,547 new cases today..
> 
> editing to add on France and the UK:
> France's total confirmed cases as of today are 3,661 (an increase of 785 today)
> In the UK, total confirmed cases as of today are 798 (an increase of 208 today)
> .


Italy's numbers today are staggering. Hard to fathom. I am so sad for them.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

disneyholic family said:


> Oh my god - 250 people died in italy today of coronavirus. The largest one day death toll.
> I cry for them. That's what we're trying to avoid.
> 250 people in one day.
> bringing the total dead in italy to 1,266
> 
> as for confirmed cases in italy...
> the total as of today is 17,600 with 2,547 new cases today..
> 
> editing to add on France and the UK:
> France's total confirmed cases as of today are 3,661 (an increase of 785 today)
> In the UK, total confirmed cases as of today are 798 (an increase of 208 today)
> .


The images coming out from Italy on the news when we were in London was heartbreaking. My heart goes out to them. So so horrible.


----------



## gotomu212

Networth said:


> Americans have always be allowed back to the homeland. Likely, under a mandatory quarantine, but the government won’t refuse a citizen re-entry.



Just want to comment that my husband was stuck abroad on 9/11, and the borders were closed and citizens were not allowed entry. He was not able to get a flight for 18 days. So guaranteed entry into the homeland is not a thing. 

The lack of flights is very real, and even when you get State Dept evacuations seating is very limited, they take awhile to organize, and the tickets are outrageous. It’s one thing to do a evac from a particular hotspot (like after the Japanese tsunami or in a sudden outbreak of war) arranging an evac from hundreds of different cities is unimaginable.

In a situation like this it would not be surprising for people to get stuck abroad with very long delays in securing return flights. We are in very uncharted waters and things are evolving on a day to day basis.


----------



## lovetotravel

gotomu212 said:


> Just want to comment that my husband was stuck abroad on 9/11, and the borders were closed and citizens were not allowed entry. He was not able to get a flight for 18 days. So guaranteed entry into the homeland is not a thing.
> 
> The lack of flights is very real, and even when you get State Dept evacuations seating is very limited, they take awhile to organize, and the tickets are outrageous. It’s one thing to do a evac from a particular hotspot (like after the Japanese tsunami or in a sudden outbreak of war) arranging an evac from hundreds of different cities is unimaginable.
> 
> In a situation like this it would not be surprising for people to get stuck abroad with very long delays in securing return flights. We are in very uncharted waters and things are evolving on a day to day basis.


Agree.  Additionally when foreign countries put themselves in a lockdown, they shut the airport down and you really can't get out, which is now the case.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

It's being reported that Spain is to shut down on Monday. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...mpose-nationwide-lockdown-draft-idUSKBN2110LE How long ago was it that ABD was waffling on these trips? I'm still furious over their handling of this. It was obvious to me as soon as I arrived in the UK 2 weeks ago that things were exploding.


----------



## Cliffside

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> It's being reported that Spain is to shut down on Monday. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...mpose-nationwide-lockdown-draft-idUSKBN2110LE How long ago was it that ABD was waffling on these trips? I'm still furious over their handling of this. It was obvious to me as soon as I arrived in the UK 2 weeks ago that things were exploding.


Not that long ago at all. I hope all that flew to the U.K. for the 3/13 England/France adventure are making it home safely.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Cliffside said:


> Not that long ago at all. I hope all that flew to the U.K. for the 3/13 England/France adventure are making it home safely.


I hope so, too!


----------



## Cliffside

It looks like the U.K. and Ireland are added to the travel ban. I still can’t believe they didn’t cancel the 3/13 departure before people flew over. It really gives me little confidence in their judgement.


----------



## kverdon

How is Disney dealing with people who have to cancel because their planned trip will now overlap the extended school year. I have a friend who will probably need to cancel their June trip as their schools are now closed for six weeks. Their school year will now like extend into July.


----------



## sayhello

Cliffside said:


> Not that long ago at all. I hope all that flew to the U.K. for the 3/13 England/France adventure are making it home safely.


I don't know what they did for Guests, but I know the Adventure Guides were immediately brought home.


kverdon said:


> How is Disney dealing with people who have to cancel because their planned trip will now overlap the extended school year. I have a friend who will probably need to cancel their June trip as their schools are now closed for six weeks. Their school year will now like extend into July.


My guess is they're working on people whose trips were cancelled during the current shut down first.  They'll get to rescheduling issues soon.

Sayhello


----------



## DisneyWishes14

kverdon said:


> How is Disney dealing with people who have to cancel because their planned trip will now overlap the extended school year. I have a friend who will probably need to cancel their June trip as their schools are now closed for six weeks. Their school year will now like extend into July.



This may not, necessarily, be the case.  In CT, the governor signed an emergency declaration eliminating the 180 school day rule and no schools can extend past June 30 (I know, that certainly wouldn't help your friend) .  This is also something that may be covered under travel insurance.   The third-party travel insurance I purchased for our summer ABD states the cancellation coverage would go into effect if "the primary or secondary school that You, Your Family Member or Traveling Companion attends extends its operating session beyond the predefined school year to fall within the period of the travel dates of Your Trip due to unforeseeable events which commence while Your coverage is in effect. Extensions due to extra-curricular or athletic events are not   covered;"

Irregardless, I certainly hope ABD starts to be a little more flexible with people.  I know this morning, WDW temporarily changed their 30 day package PIF policy to a 7 day policy instead -offering guests far more flexibility in an ever-changing situation.  Really hope ABD follows suit.  Their handling of the March UK/France trip was an abomination.  I have a SoCal/DL PIF coming up in a week, while DL remains closed.  I am certainly in no mood to hand over more money to them right now and am hoping they will allow me to park my deposit.


----------



## neurosx1983

Well I want to chime in from sunny Palm beach... resort is pretty busy and everyone seems to be carrying on and enjoying themselves. Traffic coming down here wasn’t bad either for what it’s worth.

trump is apparently now considering a domestic travel ban../not sure how that would work.Everyone pls stay safe and keep hands clean.


----------



## lovetotravel

neurosx1983 said:


> Well I want to chime in from sunny Palm beach... resort is pretty busy and everyone seems to be carrying on and enjoying themselves. Traffic coming down here wasn’t bad either for what it’s worth.
> 
> trump is apparently now considering a domestic travel ban../not sure how that would work.Everyone pls stay safe and keep hands clean.


Glad you got to FL! Enjoy the beautiful weather.


----------



## lovetotravel

kverdon said:


> How is Disney dealing with people who have to cancel because their planned trip will now overlap the extended school year. I have a friend who will probably need to cancel their June trip as their schools are now closed for six weeks. Their school year will now like extend into July.


Following this. Would be interested to hear about this. This will affect my trips.


----------



## disneyholic family

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> It's being reported that Spain is to shut down on Monday. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...mpose-nationwide-lockdown-draft-idUSKBN2110LE How long ago was it that ABD was waffling on these trips? I'm still furious over their handling of this. It was obvious to me as soon as I arrived in the UK 2 weeks ago that things were exploding.



it was obvious to anyone looking at what was happening in italy where this was heading. 
and yes, spain is headed in the same direction.



Cliffside said:


> It looks like the U.K. and Ireland are added to the travel ban. I still can’t believe they didn’t cancel the 3/13 departure before people flew over. It really gives me little confidence in their judgement.


 
I have zero confidence in ABD after their demonstration of unrelenting boneheadedness and negligence.



neurosx1983 said:


> Well I want to chime in from sunny Palm beach... resort is pretty busy and everyone seems to be carrying on and enjoying themselves. Traffic coming down here wasn’t bad either for what it’s worth.
> 
> trump is apparently now considering a domestic travel ban../not sure how that would work.Everyone pls stay safe and keep hands clean.



Enjoy the sun.
All i can say to what you're observing in palm beach, in my little corner of the world, as of tomorrow morning, all of our malls, restaurants and hotels are closing by order of the government. That's in addition to what already had been closed, but it was clear that it wasn't sufficient.
The party's over, at least for a while.
And given the acceleration in cases, it's the correct decision.

and the rumor is, we've moving towards completely shutting down the entire workforce other than essential industries.
Hopefully, we won't get to that point.
but definitely not business as usual.
.


----------



## Sakura1017

kverdon said:


> How is Disney dealing with people who have to cancel because their planned trip will now overlap the extended school year. I have a friend who will probably need to cancel their June trip as their schools are now closed for six weeks. Their school year will now like extend into July.


It might be till beginning of July, but my cousin is also a teacher and depending on the state, they have a school year must end date. So theoretically that would be their last date even if they extended by multiple weeks.


----------



## debraW76

Hello everyone.  I’ve been reading along trying to keep up with everything. I feel like I know all of you now so I thought I would finally introduce myself.   We have PIF for our very first (and probably last) ABD Italy with a departure date of June 2.  I’m hoping that everything is blown over by then but there is a chance we will have to cancel even if everything is back to normal.  I work in the aviation industry and this is hurting the airlines hard.  The airlines are our customers so we think we will begin to feel the pain in a few weeks or months.  Since my cancellation reason will be work related I’m hoping it’s covered by our insurance.  The not knowing is the hardest part.  It’s like knowing a hurricane is coming and there is nothing you can do but wait and see.


----------



## lovetotravel

debraW76 said:


> Hello everyone.  I’ve been reading along trying to keep up with everything. I feel like I know all of you now so I thought I would finally introduce myself.   We have PIF for our very first (and probably last) ABD Italy with a departure date of June 2.  I’m hoping that everything is blown over by then but there is a chance we will have to cancel even if everything is back to normal.  I work in the aviation industry and this is hurting the airlines hard.  The airlines are our customers so we think we will begin to feel the pain in a few weeks or months.  Since my cancellation reason will be work related I’m hoping it’s covered by our insurance.  The not knowing is the hardest part.  It’s like knowing a hurricane is coming and there is nothing you can do but wait and see.


Hi @debraW76! Does your policy cover work? Along with cancel for any reason, I’ve seen cancel for work reason as a separate rider. Not sure if you have your own or the ABD insurance. I hope the ABD U.K./France trip fiasco does not repeat. I’m hoping someone reports on how ABD assisted the families to come home.


----------



## sayhello

debraW76 said:


> Hello everyone.  I’ve been reading along trying to keep up with everything. I feel like I know all of you now so I thought I would finally introduce myself.   We have PIF for our very first (and probably last) ABD Italy with a departure date of June 2.  I’m hoping that everything is blown over by then but there is a chance we will have to cancel even if everything is back to normal.  I work in the aviation industry and this is hurting the airlines hard.  The airlines are our customers so we think we will begin to feel the pain in a few weeks or months.  Since my cancellation reason will be work related I’m hoping it’s covered by our insurance.  The not knowing is the hardest part.  It’s like knowing a hurricane is coming and there is nothing you can do but wait and see.


Generally, the only work related insurance coverage would be if you are fired from your job, unless you purchased "Cancel for Work reasons" or "Cancel for any Reason" coverage, which isn't always offered, and is usually expensive.  You really need to look at the specific policy you purchased.  Did you buy the ABD policy?  If you did, I checked the policy, and the only coverage I could find is if:  _Your or Your Traveling Companion’s involuntary employment termination or layoff. Employment must have been with the same employer for at least 1continuous year; _

However, if you did buy the ABD insurance, and the insurance company turns down your claim, you will get a future travel credit from ABD, worth 75% of your non-refundable costs with ABD.  I believe it has to be used within a year.

Here's a link to the policy for someone from Alabama:

https://coverage.archinsurancesolut...MoO42pc25ctka075T8jJgDuDtZhv3OoNZ3mDOn2Jhrw66

I think it's highly unlikely that Italy will be back to normal by June 2, but honestly, who knows? 

Sayhello


----------



## debraW76

sayhello said:


> Generally, the only work related insurance coverage would be if you are fired from your job, unless you purchased "Cancel for Work reasons" or "Cancel for any Reason" coverage, which isn't always offered, and is usually expensive.  You really need to look at the specific policy you purchased.  Did you buy the ABD policy?  If you did, I checked the policy, and the only coverage I could find is if:  _Your or Your Traveling Companion’s involuntary employment termination or layoff. Employment must have been with the same employer for at least 1continuous year; _
> 
> However, if you did buy the ABD insurance, and the insurance company turns down your claim, you will get a future travel credit from ABD, worth 75% of your non-refundable costs with ABD.  I believe it has to be used within a year.
> 
> Here's a link to the policy for someone from Alabama:
> 
> https://coverage.archinsurancesolut...MoO42pc25ctka075T8jJgDuDtZhv3OoNZ3mDOn2Jhrw66
> 
> I think it's highly unlikely that Italy will be back to normal by June 2, but honestly, who knows?
> 
> Sayhello


You are right, we would only get a full refund if I was laid off.  I do not think that would happen so more than likely we get the 75% credit unless Disney cancels the trip.  Which at this point I’m hoping they do.


----------



## pdsgator

We are in Australia for our trip. After refusing to cancel prior to departing and advising us that the trip was going forward, disney cancelled on the first day of the trip.  They are providing A refund and allow us to stay in hotel for 2 days to work out flights. Problem is we had booked non refundable hotel and excursions post trip.  In addition, we booked flights with cc points so we are not sure we can even get through to get new flights in time.  Do you think these are costs we should ask disney to reimburse or provide trip credits.  they are refunding cost of trip.  We are frustrated because we  asked numerous times to cancel because we saw this happening,  and they kept refusing until we flew from Florida and landed Sydney. I know the situation was fluid but the fact is this was foreseeable and they couldn’t  have handled worse.  Just dont know what if any thing is appropriate ask if there is even something to ask for.  I am in hour 3 of wait time with cc travel company and extremely frustrated but trying to keep in mind there are lot of people way more impacted than us because of this virus.


----------



## lovetotravel

pdsgator said:


> We are in Australia for our trip. After refusing to cancel prior to departing and advising us that the trip was going forward, disney cancelled on the first day of the trip.  They are providing A refund and allow us to stay in hotel for 2 days to work out flights. Problem is we had booked non refundable hotel and excursions post trip.  In addition, we booked flights with cc points so we are not sure we can even get through to get new flights in time.  Do you think these are costs we should ask disney to reimburse or provide trip credits.  they are refunding cost of trip.  We are frustrated because we  asked numerous times to cancel because we saw this happening,  and they kept refusing until we flew from Florida and landed Sydney. I know the situation was fluid but the fact is this was foreseeable and they couldn’t  have handled worse.  Just dont know what if any thing is appropriate ask if there is even something to ask for.  I am in hour 3 of wait time with cc travel company and extremely frustrated but trying to keep in mind there are lot of people way more impacted than us because of this virus.


You should probably go to the airport to get new flights as agents will be more willing to do changes in person than on the phone.
I am hoping your credit card company can help refund your hotel and other tours for being cancelled. I doubt ABD will refund your pre and post trip costs but it doesn’t hurt to ask. I have screen shot the website that says your trip is occurring in case you need it for proof that you were required to start your trip but was cancelled when you arrived. Did you have trip insurance that covers cancellations? 
I am very disappointed in ABD that you have been put in this position. "In abundance of caution" was a joke for them! Good luck and keep us posted.


----------



## twentyco

pdsgator said:


> We are in Australia for our trip. After refusing to cancel prior to departing and advising us that the trip was going forward, disney cancelled on the first day of the trip.  They are providing A refund and allow us to stay in hotel for 2 days to work out flights. Problem is we had booked non refundable hotel and excursions post trip.  In addition, we booked flights with cc points so we are not sure we can even get through to get new flights in time.  Do you think these are costs we should ask disney to reimburse or provide trip credits.  they are refunding cost of trip.  We are frustrated because we  asked numerous times to cancel because we saw this happening,  and they kept refusing until we flew from Florida and landed Sydney. I know the situation was fluid but the fact is this was foreseeable and they couldn’t  have handled worse.  Just dont know what if any thing is appropriate ask if there is even something to ask for.  I am in hour 3 of wait time with cc travel company and extremely frustrated but trying to keep in mind there are lot of people way more impacted than us because of this virus.



If it were me, I would ask them to reimburse for everything --- any airfare costs to get you home, and any post-trip losses you incur.  It seems to me as though the airfare changes are definitely on them, because they cancelled the trip.  (Also, why are they not helping you reschedule flights?  Even if not booked through them I would think this is a basic service they should assist with).  The post-trip activities are more of a gray area, admittedly, because they are not associated with the trip or with ABD.  I think I would first try to see if the organization you booked those with will give you a refund under the circumstances (many are as a matter of good customer service), and if not I would ask ABD to reimburse because you may have had more options had they cancelled this trip sooner, as they cleary should have.

I'm so sorry that you are going through this.


----------



## lovetotravel

pdsgator said:


> We are in Australia for our trip. After refusing to cancel prior to departing and advising us that the trip was going forward, disney cancelled on the first day of the trip.  They are providing A refund and allow us to stay in hotel for 2 days to work out flights. Problem is we had booked non refundable hotel and excursions post trip.  In addition, we booked flights with cc points so we are not sure we can even get through to get new flights in time.  Do you think these are costs we should ask disney to reimburse or provide trip credits.  they are refunding cost of trip.  We are frustrated because we  asked numerous times to cancel because we saw this happening,  and they kept refusing until we flew from Florida and landed Sydney. I know the situation was fluid but the fact is this was foreseeable and they couldn’t  have handled worse.  Just dont know what if any thing is appropriate ask if there is even something to ask for.  I am in hour 3 of wait time with cc travel company and extremely frustrated but trying to keep in mind there are lot of people way more impacted than us because of this virus.


Also I would like to know if ABD left all families stranded in Australia while they got their guides flights to go back out? Or are the guides staying until all families leave? As the other post mention, I can't believe they did not try to assist the families to get flights out.

Again go to the airport to get a flight. I have family still stranded in another Asian country and they waited in the airport to get a flight. One was able to fly to another part of the country that at least was not in lockdown, but still no flight to the US because they have cancelled all international flights. Even if they say a flight is available over the phone, it will be gone by the time they got there. GO TO THE AIRPORT!


----------



## lovetotravel

I hope by now that ABD realizes how they did not act "with abundance of caution" for these families stranded in UK/France and Australia trips. Traveling to countries that has lower cases has proved to be the worst policy because they are exactly the locations to avoid as things change rapidly and families will be stranded.

Not only do I hope that they fully refund all expenses including pre and post trips for these families, but I hope that they consider a fully flexible policy for ALL upcoming trips this year to the summer until things improve dramatically.


----------



## Cliffside

lovetotravel said:


> I hope by now that ABD realizes how they did not act "with abundance of caution" for these families stranded in UK/France and Australia trips. Traveling to countries that has lower cases has proved to be the worst policy because they are exactly the locations to avoid as things change rapidly and families will be stranded.
> 
> Not only do I hope that they fully refund all expenses including pre and post trips for these families, but I hope that they consider a fully flexible policy for ALL upcoming trips this year to the summer until things improve dramatically.


What a terrible situation that could of been easily avoided if they just let people cancel when asked. The fact that they are not aiding their clients trying to get home is just horrendous. The fact that on their website they posted the Australia trip was on and then they canceled it is confusing.

Sending good thoughts to all who got stranded and to everyone else trying to adjust to the new norm that we all now live in.


----------



## TXTransplant

I finally broke down and called Nat Geo yesterday, even though our Alaska trip isn’t until June 3. 

They handle things differently from ABD - all communication about a trip comes from the “Expedition Manager”.  I had not heard a single word from mine after receiving the PIF reminder last week, but that doesn’t really bother me because our trip isn’t until June.  I’m sure they are plenty busy trying to deal with current travelers as well as people scheduled on trips for the rest of March and April.

They also don’t have anything on their website, but again, that doesn’t bother me, as I’d much rather communicate with a human.

Anyway, the rep that I spoke with confirmed that if Nat Geo cancels, I will get a refund (or the option to reschedule, but I don’t think we will be able to). I‘m confident that if things are still like this within a couple of weeks of our departure date, they will cancel. Hopefully, things will improve and we can still go (although, I’m not holding my breath).

I did ask if they have had blanket cancellations of trips up to a certain date. She wasn’t 100% sure, but she thought all March trips had been cancelled, but that April trips were being handled on a case-by-case basis, depending on the destination.

This seems perfectly reasonable to me, though admittedly, I do not know what they are telling people with trips in April.

Personally, I’m ok with the “wait and see” approach, given how much time we still have until our trip.  Our flights are already booked, and the airlines aren’t addressing flights that far out, yet, either.

I am glad I booked this trip with a tour provider rather than piecing something together on my own. At least this way, I only have to deal with Nat Geo, the airlines (although, we have flights booked on three different ones), and Airbnb.

Thankfully, I have a self-imposed policy of only booking Airbnbs with hosts who have flexible cancellation policies, so I should be in pretty good shape there, too.

I am shocked and appalled at how ABD handled the England/France and Australia trips this week. Waiting so long to cancel that it’s inevitable guests are already en route or have arrived at the destination is simply inexcusable.  ABD owes those guests MORE than just a full refund, IMO.


----------



## Jess_S

Wow. I really can't believe how poorly ABD handled things. I hope everyone gets back safely from Australia. Refunding out of pocket costs seems like the minimum they can do here. 

Along with many others, I have serious reservations about traveling with ABD again after this. I really hope ABD is reading these boards and realizes the damage they have done to their brand.


----------



## sayhello

TXTransplant said:


> I am shocked and appalled at how ABD handled the England/France and Australia trips this week. Waiting so long to cancel that it’s inevitable guests are already en route or have arrived at the destination is simply inexcusable.  ABD owes those guests MORE than just a full refund, IMO.


I so agree with this.  I cannot *believe* that they have left this family in Australia on their own to get back from a tour that ABD insisted was happening, and then that *THEY* cancelled on the first day of the tour!!  It is totally unconscionable that they are not arranging flights home for these families!  Gee whiz, they're letting them stay in the hotel rooms for a couple of nights until they make their own arrangements.  How generous!  ABD probably can't get refunds for those hotel rooms at this point anyways!  I'm truly, truly appalled.  As if it's not bad enough they didn't cancel until the last minute (BEYOND the last minute!) but then to abandon these folks -- I'm livid, and it doesn't even impact me.  New flights and reimbursement for their old flights is the MINIMUM ABD owes them!!


Jess_S said:


> Wow. I really can't believe how poorly ABD handled things. I hope everyone gets back safely from Australia. Refunding out of pocket costs seems like the minimum they can do here.
> 
> Along with many others, I have serious reservations about traveling with ABD again after this. I really hope ABD is reading these boards and realizes the damage they have done to their brand.


As folks know, I am really gung-ho about ABD, but even I am seriously questioning ever traveling with them again if they are capable of mis-treating their Guests in this way!  A trip credit is really not something I'd appreciate at this time, because they are making traveling with ABD look less and less appealing with each day.


pdsgator said:


> We are in Australia for our trip. After refusing to cancel prior to departing and advising us that the trip was going forward, disney cancelled on the first day of the trip.  They are providing A refund and allow us to stay in hotel for 2 days to work out flights. Problem is we had booked non refundable hotel and excursions post trip.  In addition, we booked flights with cc points so we are not sure we can even get through to get new flights in time.  Do you think these are costs we should ask disney to reimburse or provide trip credits.  they are refunding cost of trip.  We are frustrated because we  asked numerous times to cancel because we saw this happening,  and they kept refusing until we flew from Florida and landed Sydney. I know the situation was fluid but the fact is this was foreseeable and they couldn’t  have handled worse.  Just dont know what if any thing is appropriate ask if there is even something to ask for.  I am in hour 3 of wait time with cc travel company and extremely frustrated but trying to keep in mind there are lot of people way more impacted than us because of this virus.


I would ask for EVERYTHING that you don't get a refund on!  And *ANY* expenses you incur between today & making it home.  Phone calls.  Meals.  Airfare change fees, or costs for booking a new flight with cash.  This is totally their responsibility, and they owe you for not handling it better.  I cannot FATHOM that they've abandoned you.  Are the Adventure Guides still there, or did they manage to get *them* flights out?  You may have to wait until you're back home to deal with this, but I would let ABD know you expect them to make it right, because they were definitely in the wrong.  Oh, and I really hope you got the cancellation today in writing.  Insist on it!

Sayhello


----------



## gotomu212

pdsgator said:


> We are in Australia for our trip. After refusing to cancel prior to departing and advising us that the trip was going forward, disney cancelled on the first day of the trip.  They are providing A refund and allow us to stay in hotel for 2 days to work out flights. Problem is we had booked non refundable hotel and excursions post trip.  In addition, we booked flights with cc points so we are not sure we can even get through to get new flights in time.  Do you think these are costs we should ask disney to reimburse or provide trip credits.  they are refunding cost of trip.  We are frustrated because we  asked numerous times to cancel because we saw this happening,  and they kept refusing until we flew from Florida and landed Sydney. I know the situation was fluid but the fact is this was foreseeable and they couldn’t  have handled worse.  Just dont know what if any thing is appropriate ask if there is even something to ask for.  I am in hour 3 of wait time with cc travel company and extremely frustrated but trying to keep in mind there are lot of people way more impacted than us because of this virus.



This is truly shocking and puts me permanently off ABD. #1 they should arrange and pay for your flights home. This should not be left up to each family. 
#2 any costs you incur over there should be covered because they are a direct result of ABD refusing to cancel your trip, only to cancel it once it started. #3 I would work with you post stay companies separately since you would have had an issue with them even if ABD had cancelled responsibly. Most hotels are being generous with cancellations. 

Honestly this is one of the worst handling of luxury travel I have ever heard. This was not a sudden emergency (like a natural disaster/outbreak of war) where they had no way of knowing. This was them placing your family in this position and then abandoning you. This is enough to tank their business, and you should push for repayment of all of your costs.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

sayhello said:


> I so agree with this.  I cannot *believe* that they have left this family in Australia on their own to get back from a tour that ABD insisted was happening, and then that *THEY* cancelled on the first day of the tour!!  It is totally unconscionable that they are not arranging flights home for these families!  Gee whiz, they're letting them stay in the hotel rooms for a couple of nights until they make their own arrangements.  How generous!  ABD probably can't get refunds for those hotel rooms at this point anyways!  I'm truly, truly appalled.  As if it's not bad enough they didn't cancel until the last minute (BEYOND the last minute!) but then to abandon these folks -- I'm livid, and it doesn't even impact me.  New flights and reimbursement for their old flights is the MINIMUM ABD owes them!!
> As folks know, I am really gung-ho about ABD, but even I am seriously questioning ever traveling with them again if they are capable of mis-treating their Guests in this way!  A trip credit is really not something I'd appreciate at this time, because they are making traveling with ABD look less and less appealing with each day.
> I would ask for EVERYTHING that you don't get a refund on!  And *ANY* expenses you incur between today & making it home.  Phone calls.  Meals.  Airfare change fees, or costs for booking a new flight with cash.  This is totally their responsibility, and they owe you for not handling it better.  I cannot FATHOM that they've abandoned you.  Are the Adventure Guides still there, or did they manage to get *them* flights out?  You may have to wait until you're back home to deal with this, but I would let ABD know you expect them to make it right, because they were definitely in the wrong.  Oh, and I really hope you got the cancellation today in writing.  Insist on it!
> 
> Sayhello
> 
> 
> 
> Sayhello





gotomu212 said:


> Honestly this is one of the worst handling of luxury travel I have ever heard. This was not a sudden emergency (like a natural disaster/outbreak of war) where they had no way of knowing. This was them placing your family in this position and then abandoning you. This is enough to tank their business, and you should push for repayment of all of your costs.



Ditto from me--you guys said everything I was thinking. This is appalling. As some of us have been saying for weeks, this was completely foreseeable. The fact that ABD went ahead with these trips with all that is going on is appalling and irresponsible. Whoever made these decisions should be fired--flat out. 

@pdsgator  I hope you are also blowing them up on Twitter and Facebook with this horrible service. Sadly a public lashing seems the only way to get companies to pay attention. I'd also be composing that letter in my mind to send to them when you get back. The fact that they aren't helping you with flights is unbelievable. I'm crossing my fingers for you that you find a flight ASAP. Hugs to you all.


----------



## lovetotravel

I travel with ABD despite the premium cost due to TRUST. This trust has been broken with the families stranded in UK/France and Australia. I would have never thought they would leave families to make their own way home. 
What about the summer trips I have upcoming? Will they leave me stranded in a 3rd world country with no way home? This is my worst nightmare for my family and now we have proof that they will leave us there and get their guides home only. I would expect this if I went OYO or with an economy tour provider, but not ABD.


----------



## debraW76

@pdsgator hoping you get home safely.   please keep us updated.

I am sorely disappointed in ABD.  To compare them to delta,  I also had a trip planned for San Diego for work.  I booked my flight with delta and also booked a flight for my daughter with my SkyMiles points. I was waiting for their 72 hour window to call and cancel to give their customer service reps time to handle all the mass calls they are receiving.   Just received an email from delta saying we can now cancel online and the change fee would be waived.  This is how a company should behave in times like these.


----------



## lovetotravel

debraW76 said:


> @pdsgator hoping you get home safely.   please keep us updated.
> 
> I am sorely disappointed in ABD.  To compare them to delta,  I also had a trip planned for San Diego for work.  I booked my flight with delta and also booked a flight for my daughter with my SkyMiles points. I was waiting for their 72 hour window to call and cancel to give their customer service reps time to handle all the mass calls they are receiving.   Just received an email from delta saying we can now cancel online and the change fee would be waived.  This is how a company should behave in times like these.


Yes Delta and Tauck are the clear winners of the pandemic!


----------



## disneyholic family

and 368 more people died today in italy.
That is completely beyond anything i can comprehend.
this is why we have to "flatten the curve".

368 people died today from corona.  Just in Italy. Bringing their total who have died from corona to 1,809

and spain is well on their way, with the rest of europe not that far behind.

meanwhile, who at ABD thought it should be business as usual?  that person should be fired.
and abandoning a customer on the other side of the world?  really?  i would never have believed it possible before all this happened...

.


----------



## Kez250

So I just got off the phone with ABD, they called me, my PIF was March 7 and I had emailed them and asked if I could cancel my tour (July) and use my deposit as a placeholder. The problem arises as it was already a placeholder to begin with as we had to cancel our SA ABD previously.

I had to speak to a supervisor as it wasn't a straightforward move, and he said that at the moment the adventure was still going, and I said yes I realize that but considering that nobody knows when travel restrictions will be lifted I didn't feel like sending them a whole bunch of money right now and could they make an exception due to the unprecedented circumstances that we currently find ourselves in. 

They allowed me to move my deposit back to a placeholder.

One less thing to concern myself with. Now back being worried about husband and son living in Spain suddenly on lockdown and my daughter and I in the NW UK waiting to see what happens here and also with her exams which are scheduled for the next 2 weeks.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

lovetotravel said:


> Yes Delta and Tauck are the clear winners of the pandemic!



Put JetBlue in there too!  They retroactively refunded me a $200 cancellation fee even though I cancelled the March flight prior to their easing of change/cancellation fees.  They did it through their chat function with no hemming or hawing.



Kez250 said:


> So I just got off the phone with ABD, they called me, my PIF was March 7 and I had emailed them and asked if I could cancel my tour (July) and use my deposit as a placeholder. The problem arises as it was already a placeholder to begin with as we had to cancel our SA ABD previously.
> 
> I had to speak to a supervisor as it wasn't a straightforward move, and he said that at the moment the adventure was still going, and I said yes I realize that but considering that nobody knows when travel restrictions will be lifted I didn't feel like sending them a whole bunch of money right now and could they make an exception due to the unprecedented circumstances that we currently find ourselves in.
> 
> *They allowed me to move my deposit back to a placeholder.*
> 
> One less thing to concern myself with. Now back being worried about husband and son living in Spain suddenly on lockdown and my daughter and I in the NW UK waiting to see what happens here and also with her exams which are scheduled for the next 2 weeks.



I hope you and your family will be well.  

I am hoping ABD does this for us as well.  I have a PIF for SoCal/DL coming up in less than a week and a PIF for a Rhine cruise at the end of April.  I wish I could just get a refund at this point, but would be happy with placeholders.


----------



## Donalyn

While it was clear that we were cancelling our spring break trip weeks ago (as nothing that has happened is surprising to me, been predicting this fallout for months now), but wanted to wait until my hubby caught up with me.  It also gave Hilton time to decide to waive the rules on pre-payment, etc.  And the call went well (not expecting the same result with our car reservations, but that's an issue for tomorrow).

But of course, now, we have to all hope that this is a shorter time issue (which is questionable) and that these travel entities, from tour companies, to airlines, to hotel chains, will still be around to make good on all of these delayed trips.  Again, not something that is a given.  (I think that it will be questionable whether the travel insurers will be around long term and if they are, whether "pandemic" or "epidemic" will be covered going forward - I think highly unlikely.)

I also agree that it seemed stupid to continue any trips this last week, but also remember that hindsight is 20/20 and the events of this last week (and the speed at which they occurred) I think took the world by surprise.  I mean, people were still getting on cruises last week (and the cruise ship issues have been going on for weeks).  

Even on this last Friday, a friend of a friend was still talking of going to France next weekend for spring break.  I was like, are you on drugs?  Wake up and realize what is going on here.  

And, with respect to the issues of getting people home to the US - again, the President's move on Friday was nothing that people would have predicted much earlier than it occurred.  This is crisis management on a scale that almost no one is prepared for.  

I hope everyone is healthy and gearing up for a long haul at home.


----------



## lovetotravel

Donalyn said:


> While it was clear that we were cancelling our spring break trip weeks ago (as nothing that has happened is surprising to me, been predicting this fallout for months now), but wanted to wait until my hubby caught up with me.  It also gave Hilton time to decide to waive the rules on pre-payment, etc.  And the call went well (not expecting the same result with our car reservations, but that's an issue for tomorrow).
> 
> But of course, now, we have to all hope that this is a shorter time issue (which is questionable) and that these travel entities, from tour companies, to airlines, to hotel chains, will still be around to make good on all of these delayed trips.  Again, not something that is a given.  (I think that it will be questionable whether the travel insurers will be around long term and if they are, whether "pandemic" or "epidemic" will be covered going forward - I think highly unlikely.)
> 
> I also agree that it seemed stupid to continue any trips this last week, but also remember that hindsight is 20/20 and the events of this last week (and the speed at which they occurred) I think took the world by surprise.  I mean, people were still getting on cruises last week (and the cruise ship issues have been going on for weeks).
> 
> Even on this last Friday, a friend of a friend was still talking of going to France next weekend for spring break.  I was like, are you on drugs?  Wake up and realize what is going on here.
> 
> And, with respect to the issues of getting people home to the US - again, the President's move on Friday was nothing that people would have predicted much earlier than it occurred.  This is crisis management on a scale that almost no one is prepared for.
> 
> I hope everyone is healthy and gearing up for a long haul at home.


I agree with you and with the hindsight, fluidity, unprecedented aspect of the situation.

But ABD did not give families the flexibility to cancel without significant financial loss. We are talking a lot of money for these trips. Not just a few thousand, but several thousands. Families are stranded without flight assistance. Other companies have been very flexible with cancellations way before all the government announcements.


----------



## sayhello

Donalyn said:


> (I think that it will be questionable whether the travel insurers will be around long term and if they are, whether "pandemic" or "epidemic" will be covered going forward - I think highly unlikely.)


Epidemics/pandemics are already *not* covered by virtually all travel insurance, unless you purchase their expensive "Cancel for any Reason" riders.  Insurance companies are not stupid, that's for sure!


Donalyn said:


> I also agree that it seemed stupid to continue any trips this last week, but also remember that hindsight is 20/20 and the events of this last week (and the speed at which they occurred) I think took the world by surprise.  I mean, people were still getting on cruises last week (and the cruise ship issues have been going on for weeks).


It did *not* take a lot of us by surprise.  Those of us who have been posting here, and keeping up with the Johns Hopkins site, etc, totally saw it coming, and have been trying to get ABD and airlines to come around for a almost 3 weeks.


Donalyn said:


> Even on this last Friday, a friend of a friend was still talking of going to France next weekend for spring break.  I was like, are you on drugs?  Wake up and realize what is going on here.


I have friends that went to WDW and Disneyland this week before the shut down.  Everybody has their own idea of what constitutes a good or bad idea in these situations.



Donalyn said:


> And, with respect to the issues of getting people home to the US - again, the President's move on Friday was nothing that people would have predicted much earlier than it occurred.  This is crisis management on a scale that almost no one is prepared for.


I agree, the travel bans make this all more complicated, but that is one more reason that ABD should NOT have abandoned folks in Australia, and should be working doubly hard to get them back home.


Donalyn said:


> I hope everyone is healthy and gearing up for a long haul at home.


I hope so, too.  This is not going away any time soon.

Sayhello


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

sayhello said:


> Epidemics/pandemics are already *not* covered by virtually all travel insurance, unless you purchase their expensive "Cancel for any Reason" riders.  Insurance companies are not stupid, that's for sure!
> It did *not* take a lot of us by surprise.  Those of us who have been posting here, and keeping up with the Johns Hopkins site, etc, totally saw it coming, and have been trying to get ABD and airlines to come around for a almost 3 weeks.
> I have friends that went to WDW and Disneyland this week before the shut down.  Everybody has their own idea of what constitutes a good or bad idea in these situations.
> 
> I agree, the travel bans make this all more complicated, but that is one more reason that ABD should NOT have abandoned folks in Australia, and should be working doubly hard to get them back home.
> I hope so, too.  This is not going away any time soon.
> 
> Sayhello


Ditto again, SayHello. This is getting to be a habit


----------



## Calfan

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> Ditto again, SayHello. This is getting to be a habit



As is my liking everything you guys are posting!  I have not had the ABD rose-colored glasses on for a while now, but even  I am beyond flabbergasted at the abominable way ABD has handled just about everything since this crisis began brewing.  Leaving folks stranded to make their own arrangements home after insisting trips would go forward and then cancelling the day before or the day of the scheduled departure is beyond unconscionable!  Shame on ABD!!!  Kind of wishing we didn’t have the 2021 Rhine River Cruise already booked, but that is absolutely the last ABD we will ever be taking.  They have completely destroyed any remaining goodwill.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Calfan said:


> Kind of wishing we didn’t have the 2021 Rhine River Cruise already booked, but that is absolutely the last ABD we will ever be taking.  They have completely destroyed any remaining goodwill.


I had exactly the same thoughts.


----------



## Rapunzellover

sayhello said:


> It did *not* take a lot of us by surprise.  Those of us who have been posting here, and keeping up with the Johns Hopkins site, etc, totally saw it coming, and have been trying to get ABD and airlines to come around for a almost 3 weeks.



Amen, Sayhello!  ABD is clearly not paying attention.   Or using money to guide there decisions.   It's going to be far more costly in the long run, this incompetence.  

But lots of stupid decisions are being made.  My school, for example, is transferring to online starting Wed.   They want all faculty to hold office hours by remote means (Zoom).  However, they also want these remote office hours to be held on campus!  So students can come down if they want. What the what?

There's gonna be some lawsuits after this is all over...


----------



## Rapunzellover

Calfan said:


> As is my liking everything you guys are posting!  I have not had the ABD rose-colored glasses on for a while now, but even  I am beyond flabbergasted at the abominable way ABD has handled just about everything since this crisis began brewing.  Leaving folks stranded to make their own arrangements home after insisting trips would go forward and then cancelling the day before or the day of the scheduled departure is beyond unconscionable!  Shame on ABD!!!  Kind of wishing we didn’t have the 2021 Rhine River Cruise already booked, but that is absolutely the last ABD we will ever be taking.  They have completely destroyed any remaining goodwill.



I'm soooooo glad I have no ABD booked right now.  I have a feeling there will no vacay for me this year at all.


----------



## Eastridge

pdsgator said:


> We are in Australia for our trip. After refusing to cancel prior to departing and advising us that the trip was going forward, disney cancelled on the first day of the trip.



Did ABD state the reason why they cancelled Australia?  The coronavirus numbers don't seem as bad in Australia compared to many other places, including the US.  The only thing I can think of is that New Zealand recently imposed a 2 week quarantine on anybody entering that country.

If ABD won't travel to Australia, I would think that means they have to cancel all non-domestic trips, well in advance of the actual trip.


----------



## carpenta

Just got off the phone with Hampton Inn reservations. Wonderful Shawniece took care of all our moves for future reservations even though they were non cancelable. BRAVO! Our Tauck trip to England and France is in doubt but Tauck will give you full credit if you cancel plus the insurance will be credited. BRAVO TAUCK.


----------



## lovetotravel

carpenta said:


> Just got off the phone with Hampton Inn reservations. Wonderful Shawniece took care of all our moves for future reservations even though they were non cancelable. BRAVO! Our Tauck trip to England and France is in doubt but Tauck will give you full credit if you cancel plus the insurance will be credited. BRAVO TAUCK.


Great news! Hilton also cancelled a non refundable reservation for us, no questions asked! 
I will be looking at Tauck itineraries!!


----------



## acndis

The handling of all of this has been a complete mess. This will be our 11th ABD if we go this summer and I think I am done, too. Come on ABD, just do the right thing and cancel through August. Let us cancel our plans and regroup. Doing the right thing in the next few weeks will bring people back. Having to stress for the next few months when we are dealing with work and school restriction/closures does not make for a relaxing vacation. I really hope they will get it together.


----------



## Rapunzellover

carpenta said:


> Just got off the phone with Hampton Inn reservations. Wonderful Shawniece took care of all our moves for future reservations even though they were non cancelable. BRAVO! Our Tauck trip to England and France is in doubt but Tauck will give you full credit if you cancel plus the insurance will be credited. BRAVO TAUCK.



Tauck has very customer friendly policies.  I've been making sure I tell every Tauck rep that they are awesome and I appreciate the customer friendliness.


----------



## aggiedog

Hyatt Place gave my dd a full refund on 4 hotel rooms the day before they were supposed to travel for a University club trip.  She was thrilled, as it was a big chunk of their budget.


----------



## SteveW8002

Really on the fence about what to do.  I have a PIF date of 3/24 for a July Italy/Switzerland trip that I booked with Dreams.  I find it hard to believe that things will be okay in July.  I emailed my agent with dreams twice last week, wondering if the PIF date would change in light of the current situation.  No response.  The reason I used a travel agency is for guidance on situations like this.  These trips are a lot of money after all.  I realize that they must be extremely busy with cancelations, but to be ignored is not appreciated.  I will wait until the end of the week to make a final decision, however my inclination is to cancel the trip.  I really hate to forfeit the deposit, but don't trust ABD to make the right choice about the trip.  This will probably be the last booking that I make with ABD.


----------



## laceltris3

Rapunzellover said:


> Tauck has very customer friendly policies.  I've been making sure I tell every Tauck rep that they are awesome and I appreciate the customer friendliness.



Me too. Well, I haven't called because our PIF was proactively moved to May, and I was thinking of transferring to a North America trip, but who knows what things will be like this summer? I have talked up Tauck in every social media venue, because this is a company that is getting hit and *deserves* to survive.


----------



## Jess_S

SteveW8002 said:


> Really on the fence about what to do.  I have a PIF date of 3/24 for a July Italy/Switzerland trip that I booked with Dreams.  I find it hard to believe that things will be okay in July.  I emailed my agent with dreams twice last week, wondering if the PIF date would change in light of the current situation.  No response.  The reason I used a travel agency is for guidance on situations like this.  These trips are a lot of money after all.  I realize that they must be extremely busy with cancelations, but to be ignored is not appreciated.  I will wait until the end of the week to make a final decision, however my inclination is to cancel the trip.  I really hate to forfeit the deposit, but don't trust ABD to make the right choice about the trip.  This will probably be the last booking that I make with ABD.



I have generally had a good experience with DU, but understand that there is some variation from agent to agent. If your agent isn't responsive, what about putting a request in through the DU website so that someone in management there can handle it?


----------



## neurosx1983

Jess_S said:


> I have generally had a good experience with DU, but understand that there is some variation from agent to agent. If your agent isn't responsive, what about putting a request in through the DU website so that someone in management there can handle it?



I would let John know about that and he will sort it out


----------



## neurosx1983

acndis said:


> The handling of all of this has been a complete mess. This will be our 11th ABD if we go this summer and I think I am done, too. Come on ABD, just do the right thing and cancel through August. Let us cancel our plans and regroup. Doing the right thing in the next few weeks will bring people back. Having to stress for the next few months when we are dealing with work and school restriction/closures does not make for a relaxing vacation. I really hope they will get it together.



ABD supervisor response to me when our England France on the 13th was cancelled pretty much sums up the whole problem: “ we were 100% planning on going ahead with the trip and only cancelled because the president banned Europe travel”

that shows exactly their thought process...do whatever it takes to keep the trip going because god forbid Disney might lose some money


----------



## Cliffside

What a terrible response. With that type of answer I don’t think I will ever trust them to put the safety and well being of their clients first. It almost want to take my 50% cash back and run. If I choose to ever do a Danube River Cruise I can look to Tauck who seems to be  exhibiting excellent customer service. Beyond disappointing!!!


----------



## Rapunzellover

neurosx1983 said:


> ABD supervisor response to me when our England France on the 13th was cancelled pretty much sums up the whole problem: “ we were 100% planning on going ahead with the trip and only cancelled because the president banned Europe travel”
> 
> that shows exactly their thought process...do whatever it takes to keep the trip going because god forbid Disney might lose some money



I'm outraged on your behalf.  For the money spent, ABD should definitely have had better risk assessment.  My trust in them is gone.  I'm only interested in a possible Portugal itinerary if it offers special stuff Tauck didn't, otherwise, I'll not be considering ABD at all in the future.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

I was reading in my daily Cdn newspaper today that a group of high school students and teacher chaperones left for a trip to France on March 11th. They returned to Canada (BC) yesterday and have all been instructed to self-quarantine. I was absolutely shocked that the trip left. They used some ridiculous way to justify it by saying some sort of medical counsel hadn't said not to go, so they went. The tour company, EF Tours, is giving the participants a voucher for future travels. EF Tours runs educational tours for many, many school boards in Canada. When my 28 year old ds was in 7th grade he went on a trip to France organized by EF. I wouldn't have any faith in them after allowing a group of students to travel last week. Absolutely insane. I hope they are all okay. 

I am having difficulty again with Scott Dunn. After dd said she doesn't want to travel to Europe this summer and realizing that we can't commit to any dates before the end of next May (she may do a spring course at university or start a summer job), I have asked them to allow me to push back my PIF to April 20th. They don't want to allow this (they want me to pay now). It appears they aren't willing to refund me for the trip if we don't go as scheduled on May 24th. This despite the fact that Russia just closed its borders to foreigners until at least May 1st. If I don't pay in full by March 20th then I essentially lose my $5,000.00 deposit. I don't understand why tour operators are being so difficult. I believe I said it before, but it bears repeating, I will never again agree to such a large deposit with a tour company.


----------



## neurosx1983

disneyholic family said:


> it was obvious to anyone looking at what was happening in italy where this was heading.
> and yes, spain is headed in the same direction.
> 
> 
> 
> I have zero confidence in ABD after their demonstration of unrelenting boneheadedness and negligence.
> 
> 
> 
> Enjoy the sun.
> All i can say to what you're observing in palm beach, in my little corner of the world, as of tomorrow morning, all of our malls, restaurants and hotels are closing by order of the government. That's in addition to what already had been closed, but it was clear that it wasn't sufficient.
> The party's over, at least for a while.
> And given the acceleration in cases, it's the correct decision.
> 
> and the rumor is, we've moving towards completely shutting down the entire workforce other than essential industries.
> Hopefully, we won't get to that point.
> but definitely not business as usual.
> .



My state of NJ has told everyone to stay at home during day hours and has ordered all restaurants/bars/theaters closed



Cliffside said:


> What a terrible response. With that type of answer I don’t think I will ever trust them to put the safety and well being of their clients first. It almost want to take my 50% cash back and run. If I choose to ever do a Danube River Cruise I can look to Tauck who seems to be  exhibiting excellent customer service. Beyond disappointing!!!



ABD kept talking about their “global security team”...how much does anyone want to bet that doesn’t even actually exist


----------



## Travel junkie

carpenta said:


> Just got off the phone with Hampton Inn reservations. Wonderful Shawniece took care of all our moves for future reservations even though they were non cancelable. BRAVO! Our Tauck trip to England and France is in doubt but Tauck will give you full credit if you cancel plus the insurance will be credited. BRAVO TAUCK.


Even though we have been happy with ABD in past, they definitely are handling things poorly.  Cannot believe they stranded families in Australia.  Frustrated that we will lose a lot of money with current ABD reservations which are early June.  We had bought “cancel for any reason”, but Japan was/is a really expensive trip and losing 25% is still tough.  Besides the trips we have booked/paid with ABD, will look elsewhere in future when things calm down.  Sounds like Tauck is handling things much better.  Stay safe everyone.


----------



## disneyholic family

a top medical expert here (he's the head of the leading medical research institution in the country, and before that he was the director of the largest medical center here).
He was on the main news program tonight. They kept going back to him for comment throughout the show.
At the beginning he was pretty strong in his warnings, but calm.
By the end of the show he was livid because of the reports of all the people going to the beach  and to the parks, etc.
Our restaurants, malls, hotels, schools are all closed, but the beaches were packed, which counters all the efforts being made.

Anyway, at the end of the news he just kept saying over and over -
"This isn't a vacation. You're not at work because we are trying to slow it down.
It's increasing exponentially. Don't you understand what that means???
This isn't a vacation. Stay in your homes."
He was so upset.  He said people have to understand that if they  don't follow instructions this is going to turn into a worldwide disaster a la italy.  And if not worldwide, then certainly in my little corner of the world.

People are alternatively terrified out of their minds, or else making a big joke of it and doing things they shouldn't.

I got into it with a former colleague of mine who was doing something that i felt was in contravention of the orders.
Normally my response to unsafe behavior is, "it's your funeral", but in this case, that's not true.  It might very well be someone else's funeral.
.


----------



## Magnum_PI

disneyholic family said:


> "it's your funeral", but in this case, that's not true. It might very well be someone else's funeral.



This right here is absolutely the crux of the issue, and so true.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

So, apparently, President Trump mentioned he believes this could go into July or August.  I'm guessing, see how ABD handled UK/France and Australia this week, that that isn't going to make much of a difference when I call ABD this week asking them to park my deposit on a mid-July SoCal/DL trip?


----------



## Grotto

Our PIF is this Thursday (3/19) for our mid-July Germany trip.  Anyone have any luck with ABD allowing them to push back the PIF date but not cancel their trip?


----------



## AquaDame

DisneyWishes14 said:


> So, apparently, President Trump mentioned he believes this could go into July or August.  I'm guessing, see how ABD handled UK/France and Australia this week, that that isn't going to make much of a difference when I call ABD this week asking them to park my deposit on a mid-July SoCal/DL trip?



Seems doubtful... with the way ABD is handling this I also regret putting money down for a river cruise next year. I wonder if DCL would have been just as slow to react - and they were also pretty slow mind you - if not for all the bans and such that hit them externally first.


----------



## disneyphx

Just read this thread with much interest.
We had an April SoCal Escape that was just cancelled - we held out as we preferred a full refund if at all possible. Mainly as the trip worked for those dates this year,  but it was not a must do.
We have a NatHab trip booked this summer - they emailed several weeks saying ‘we are watching’ - as they have trips all,over the world, we expect not to hear for a while.....we will likely wait to see if they cancel, or if they don’t if travel,restrictions allow us to cancel - our air is booked via London.
We have travelled with Tauck twice - I see references to their Great service here - is that a general reference or to how they are currently managing things? I know this should likely be on the other options thread....


----------



## pdsgator

All - wanted to provide an update. First appreciate everyone’s well wishes and thoughts. 
We finally got things sorted out with Disney. It’s been a stressful few days but ABD finally got clarity but only afternoon they cancelled the trip.  To clarify, Disney didn’t abandon us. We were in process real time and there weren’t commitments defined on to get us home.  We booked air travel on our own - not through Disney.  They did say to call our CC travel company - we tried but were up all on night on hold for over 3 hours (twice) before getting disconnected.  We ended up just buying one way tickets to get home.  We requested ABD to reimburse for the one Way flights since they put us in the position and they did take up the flag pole and agreed.  Moreover, They did get one day scheduled of the trip in - as expected the guides on the ground were great, even thought their livelihoods had been turned upside down.   So ABD did refund the trip and agreed to pay for our flights.  We are still eating the original flight costs and the costs of the trip that we have booked outside of the trip and expenses.   They did not send the guides out until we leave tomorrow so we didn’t feel stranded when they finally decided to cancel.  

I am still upset the way this whole thing was handled. They tried to explain since folks were in route they weren’t going to cancel the trip.  But they failed to acknowledge that their ridiculous inflexibility made it so much worse given the uncertainifty of what unfolded. 

We leave tomorrow.  Sydney is a ghost town.  We tried to make the best of it.   I wouldn’t say we would not go on another ABD trip but I think ABD could Have handled this better.  We decided if they cover our flight home, we will deal with the other stuff.  Maybe they should do more for putting us in this position, I don’t know.   The guides locally were great.  In the end, we have to keep in mind that our impact has been one of inconvenience while there are really good people that are losing their jobs, losing their health and face much more difficult things than this.  After tomorrow, it will be an interesting way to remember how we “celebrated“ our 20 year anniversary!


----------



## disdel

pdsgator, glad to hear you've gotten things to progress. And happy 20th anniversary.
Thank you for the updates.


----------



## debraW76

@pdsgator thanks for the clarification.  Hoping you get home safely. 

I realize since my trip is in June that things may very well be back to normal and it is too early for ABD to just call the trip now.  However, I would feel better about ABD if they would send out ANY information to us.  Just an email stating they are monitoring the situation and will make changes accordingly would make me feel more at ease.  
I just received an email from Disney springs with an update on their plans for the next couple of months.  I do not have any reservations with them, I am assuming I received this because I was just on their generic mailing list. I’ve received other similar emails from Delta, Southwest, Marriott, and Hilton.   If they can send out a mass email, why can’t ABD? Especially to those that actually may be impacted.  I’m just disappointed in their total lack of communication.


----------



## SteveW8002

debraW76 said:


> @pdsgator thanks for the clarification.  Hoping you get home safely.
> 
> I realize since my trip is in June that things may very well be back to normal and it is too early for ABD to just call the trip now.  However, I would feel better about ABD if they would send out ANY information to us.  Just an email stating they are monitoring the situation and will make changes accordingly would make me feel more at ease.
> I just received an email from Disney springs with an update on their plans for the next couple of months.  I do not have any reservations with them, I am assuming I received this because I was just on their generic mailing list. I’ve received other similar emails from Delta, Southwest, Marriott, and Hilton.   If they can send out a mass email, why can’t ABD? Especially to those that actually may be impacted.  I’m just disappointed in their total lack of communication.



Absolutely agree with this.  I've received communications from every other travel related company that I use, airlines, hotels, cruise lines, etc.  Nothing from ABD.  They didn't even have a statement on their website until 5 days ago.  Yes they are certainly scrambling behind the scenes to figure this thing out, but to provide their customers such little guidance is not acceptable.  How difficult would it be to send an update?  Would it be that hard to relax PIF dates until things are clearer?  I'm not impressed.


----------



## TXTransplant

SteveW8002 said:


> Absolutely agree with this.  I've received communications from every other travel related company that I use, airlines, hotels, cruise lines, etc.  Nothing from ABD.  They didn't even have a statement on their website until 5 days ago.  Yes they are certainly scrambling behind the scenes to figure this thing out, but to provide their customers such little guidance is not acceptable.  How difficult would it be to send an update?  Would it be that hard to relax PIF dates until things are clearer?  I'm not impressed.



I posted a couple of pages back that I haven't heard anything from Nat Geo.  They don't have anything on their website, either.

As far as I'm concerned, the emails from the airlines and hotels do me no good because none of their policies have been extended to my travel dates. 

It is stressful, but these companies have thousands of customers to take care of between now and June.  If you're really concerned, just do like I did and call.

At this point for us, if we can at all still keep our trip, we will.  I am not ready to voluntarily cancel at this point (in part because of the $ I have tied up in airline reservations that don't yet fall within the dates that qualify for cancellations and credits). Rescheduling for a later date this year isn't an option, either.

The only other alternative is that we are still in this situation 2+ months from now, and if that's the case, Nat Geo will cancel.


----------



## Dis_Yoda

Tauck is amazing.  I knew about their nice cancellation policies from our trip with them in September as one of the parties had a family member fall gravely ill so 3 of their party cancelled about a week before the trip.  Tauck was more than happy to move that money to another trip in the future for them.


----------



## BluesTraveler

TXTransplant said:


> I posted a couple of pages back that I haven't heard anything from Nat Geo.  They don't have anything on their website, either.
> 
> As far as I'm concerned, the emails from the airlines and hotels do me no good because none of their policies have been extended to my travel dates.
> 
> It is stressful, but these companies have thousands of customers to take care of between now and June.  If you're really concerned, just do like I did and call.
> 
> At this point for us, if we can at all still keep our trip, we will.  I am not ready to voluntarily cancel at this point (in part because of the $ I have tied up in airline reservations that don't yet fall within the dates that qualify for cancellations and credits). Rescheduling for a later date this year isn't an option, either.
> 
> The only other alternative is that we are still in this situation 2+ months from now, and if that's the case, Nat Geo will cancel.


Am sure you're aware Nat Geo is owned by Disney now...


----------



## disneyholic family

Related to travel, but certainly not ABD sort of travel.
Israeli kids have a tradition of backpacking after they finish compulsory military service.
They backpack for months to a year, trekking through 3 preferred locations:  Southeast Asia, Nepal, and all around South America.

The border in Peru was closed yesterday, so hundreds of israeli backpackers are now stranded in Peru, unable to get out (there were no flights available to anywhere).
So Israel is sending planes to Peru to bring them all back home.

A lot of families are breathing easier today, knowing their kids will be coming home soon. 
If you do end up needing medical care, you'd much rather be at home. 
Even if the medical system crashes, you'd rather be in the crashing system you know with your family nearby.
.


----------



## TXTransplant

BluesTraveler said:


> Am sure you're aware Nat Geo is owned by Disney now...



I am aware.  But, as best I can tell, things are still being handled per Nat Geo.  I have no reason to believe ABD has any influence over how they are operating (their model is distinctly different from ABD, even not factoring in the current issues with travel).  Obviously, who knows what's going on behind the scenes, but there has been no obvious change to customers.


----------



## Woodview

The  E.U.    Leaders            will    announce  this    afternoon   That

  There  will be   NO  TRAVEL   INTO    EUROPE    ( Including  U.K )        for  30   days        ( April 17 th )


----------



## Cliffside

It seems that ABD has cancelled some May and the China June adventure.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

AquaDame said:


> Seems doubtful... with the way ABD is handling this I also regret putting money down for a river cruise next year. I wonder if DCL would have been just as slow to react - and they were also pretty slow mind you - if not for all the bans and such that hit them externally first.



I feel like the cruise lines had to cave given the situation with the Grand and Diamond Princess and all of the ships that were subsequently denied docking in ports.  It would have been a HUGE PR nightmare if a DCL ship had been caught up in this (there are reports floating around that someone who was on the Wonder a few weeks ago has now tested positive).  I happen to follow Celebrity cruises on a different board because we sail with them occasionally and they have one ship floating around right now with absolutely nowhere to dock.  

I agree with PPs who are disappointed that ABD has done nothing to communicate with their guests.  WDW, DL and DCL all dramatically changed their policies to accommodate people.  It feels like ABD is not operating like any of their other travel divisions.  Very disappointing.


----------



## E-Ticket

I've followed DisBoards for years, this is my first post. Our family of 3 has been to WDW 9 times (including just 3 weeks ago before the world came to a halt), DL many times, 3 DCL cruises (Alaska, Caribbean, Mediterranean), and 2 ABD trips (shout out to Dusty and James). Yes, we are THAT family among all our friends and family, as I am sure most of you are as well! 

Right now we're in a conundrum regarding our back-to-back ABD trips in June/July - Italy/Switzerland and then Scotland. With flights from Seattle, the whole kit-and-caboodle cost about $40,000. Of course, as of now Disney has not cancelled our trips, BUT we did get CFAR insurance. Yay! So, right now we are at the point where we could use our insurance and get about $32,000 back - based on the 50% back from Disney and the 75% back of the remainder from our insurance. We have until March 27 to make a decision, after that we will drop to the 25% back from Disney.

Our guess is that ABD will eventually cancel the trips and we will get all our money back. (I, too, am disappointed with ABD's lack of transparency). But right now we are inclined to use our insurance just to be sure. One concern is going through the ever fun process of dealing with an insurance company! Has anyone here ever used their travel insurance? CFAR insurance? Any thoughts on our situation? I am calling upon the expert Disney Jedi's for guidance (I am a mere padawan compared to you folks)! Thank you in advance!


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

E-Ticket said:


> I've followed DisBoards for years, this is my first post. Our family of 3 has been to WDW 9 times (including just 3 weeks ago before the world came to a halt), DL many times, 3 DCL cruises (Alaska, Caribbean, Mediterranean), and 2 ABD trips (shout out to Dusty and James). Yes, we are THAT family among all our friends and family, as I am sure most of you are as well!
> 
> Right now we're in a conundrum regarding our back-to-back ABD trips in June/July - Italy/Switzerland and then Scotland. With flights from Seattle, the whole kit-and-caboodle cost about $40,000. Of course, as of now Disney has not cancelled our trips, BUT we did get CFAR insurance. Yay! So, right now we are at the point where we could use our insurance and get about $32,000 back - based on the 50% back from Disney and the 75% back of the remainder from our insurance. We have until March 27 to make a decision, after that we will drop to the 25% back from Disney.
> 
> Our guess is that ABD will eventually cancel the trips and we will get all our money back. (I, too, am disappointed with ABD's lack of transparency). But right now we are inclined to use our insurance just to be sure. One concern is going through the ever fun process of dealing with an insurance company! Has anyone here ever used their travel insurance? CFAR insurance? Any thoughts on our situation? I am calling upon the expert Disney Jedi's for guidance (I am a mere padawan compared to you folks)! Thank you in advance!


I have filed a claim with travel insurance (bought through insure my trip dot com) when my mom suddenly passed away and were were just about to start the London / France ABD. The process was very smooth and I had my money shortly after I submitted the paperwork.

I do not now how CFAR insurance works, but I hope others can help you.

Have you tried calling ABD and asking to speak to a supervisor? I'd maybe try to push your PIF to 30 or 60 days before departure. I know they are swamped right now, but it's certainly worth a try!


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

pdsgator said:


> I am still upset the way this whole thing was handled. They tried to explain since folks were in route they weren’t going to cancel the trip.  But they failed to acknowledge that their ridiculous inflexibility made it so much worse given the uncertainifty of what unfolded.



This! They should have cancelled trips well before anyone actually stepped on an airplane. I'm so glad to hear that your travel plans have been sorted and you have a flight home. Safe travels and happy 20th--it will indeed be a story!


----------



## E-Ticket

Sorry about your mom. 
We haven't called yet. Figure we'll be on hold for hours, but we might try that today, just to see how they handle it and go from there. Mickey already has our money - we PIF at the end of Feb.
Thank you!


----------



## sayhello

So I just got notification that my hotel for my pre-days in Paris will be closed through May 17.    I'm supposed to be there May 11 - 13.  (ABD is May 14 - 21).  Wondering what else would be closed...



pdsgator said:


> All - wanted to provide an update. First appreciate everyone’s well wishes and thoughts.
> We finally got things sorted out with Disney. It’s been a stressful few days but ABD finally got clarity but only afternoon they cancelled the trip.  To clarify, Disney didn’t abandon us. We were in process real time and there weren’t commitments defined on to get us home.  We booked air travel on our own - not through Disney.  They did say to call our CC travel company - we tried but were up all on night on hold for over 3 hours (twice) before getting disconnected.  We ended up just buying one way tickets to get home.  We requested ABD to reimburse for the one Way flights since they put us in the position and they did take up the flag pole and agreed.  Moreover, They did get one day scheduled of the trip in - as expected the guides on the ground were great, even thought their livelihoods had been turned upside down.   So ABD did refund the trip and agreed to pay for our flights.  We are still eating the original flight costs and the costs of the trip that we have booked outside of the trip and expenses.   They did not send the guides out until we leave tomorrow so we didn’t feel stranded when they finally decided to cancel.
> 
> I am still upset the way this whole thing was handled. They tried to explain since folks were in route they weren’t going to cancel the trip.  But they failed to acknowledge that their ridiculous inflexibility made it so much worse given the uncertainifty of what unfolded.
> 
> We leave tomorrow.  Sydney is a ghost town.  We tried to make the best of it.   I wouldn’t say we would not go on another ABD trip but I think ABD could Have handled this better.  We decided if they cover our flight home, we will deal with the other stuff.  Maybe they should do more for putting us in this position, I don’t know.   The guides locally were great.  In the end, we have to keep in mind that our impact has been one of inconvenience while there are really good people that are losing their jobs, losing their health and face much more difficult things than this.  After tomorrow, it will be an interesting way to remember how we “celebrated“ our 20 year anniversary!


Thanks so much for the update!  Glad it's all working out, but the way things were handled for you still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.  

It certainly will make for a good story going forward!


E-Ticket said:


> I've followed DisBoards for years, this is my first post. Our family of 3 has been to WDW 9 times (including just 3 weeks ago before the world came to a halt), DL many times, 3 DCL cruises (Alaska, Caribbean, Mediterranean), and 2 ABD trips (shout out to Dusty and James). Yes, we are THAT family among all our friends and family, as I am sure most of you are as well!
> 
> Right now we're in a conundrum regarding our back-to-back ABD trips in June/July - Italy/Switzerland and then Scotland. With flights from Seattle, the whole kit-and-caboodle cost about $40,000. Of course, as of now Disney has not cancelled our trips, BUT we did get CFAR insurance. Yay! So, right now we are at the point where we could use our insurance and get about $32,000 back - based on the 50% back from Disney and the 75% back of the remainder from our insurance. We have until March 27 to make a decision, after that we will drop to the 25% back from Disney.
> 
> Our guess is that ABD will eventually cancel the trips and we will get all our money back. (I, too, am disappointed with ABD's lack of transparency). But right now we are inclined to use our insurance just to be sure. One concern is going through the ever fun process of dealing with an insurance company! Has anyone here ever used their travel insurance? CFAR insurance? Any thoughts on our situation? I am calling upon the expert Disney Jedi's for guidance (I am a mere padawan compared to you folks)! Thank you in advance!


Just want to make sure you understand (since your post is a little ambiguous) that if you cancel your trip and get reimbursed by your insurance, you will not be eligible for any sort of additional refund if ABD ends up cancelling the trip.  Once you cancel, that's the end of it.

I have found trip insurance companies very easy to work with if you have all of the needed paperwork.  So I would encourage you to call the insurance company now, before you do anything.  Tell them you're *considering* cancelling under their Cancel for Any Reason policy, and ask what kind of documentation/procedures they want you to follow in order to get your reimbursement from them.  It will make things so much easier than trying to deal with it all after the fact.

Sayhello


----------



## Grifdog22

sayhello said:


> So I just got notification that my hotel for my pre-days in Paris will be closed through May 17.    I'm supposed to be there May 11 - 13.  (ABD is May 14 - 21).  Wondering what else would be closed...
> 
> Thanks so much for the update!  Glad it's all working out, but the way things were handled for you still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
> 
> It certainly will make for a good story going forward!
> Just want to make sure you understand (since your post is a little ambiguous) that if you cancel your trip and get reimbursed by your insurance, you will not be eligible for any sort of additional refund if ABD ends up cancelling the trip.  Once you cancel, that's the end of it.
> 
> I have found trip insurance companies very easy to work with if you have all of the needed paperwork.  So I would encourage you to call the insurance company now, before you do anything.  Tell them you're *considering* cancelling under their Cancel for Any Reason policy, and ask what kind of documentation/procedures they want you to follow in order to get your reimbursement from them.  It will make things so much easier than trying to deal with it all after the fact.
> 
> Sayhello


So if your private hotel rooms are cancelled...that probably also means the ABD pre-day hotel is closed....and in the wonderful world of Disney miscommunications, lets look at their current posting.  Your/our trip begins on May 14.  All ABD trips are cancelled through the end of April. Their guidance states, 


"ADDITIONAL SCREENING MEASURES
Currently, we plan to move forward with any trip not listed above.

However, we will continue to make adjustments as necessary and will notify Guests immediately should there be changes to their itinerary. At this time, *the following guidelines are in effect for all trips and will continue to evolve as more information becomes available: *
Any Guest or guide who has traveled from,* to or through the following countries within 14 days of their trip’s departure will not be able to travel with Adventures by Disney*: Austria, Belgium, China, including Hong Kong and Macau, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, *France, *Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Iran, Italy, Japan, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, South Korea, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Monaco, San Marino and Vatican City.
Any Guest who has been in contact with someone from these areas, *including Guests with connecting flights in these locations, also will not be able to travel*, nor will anyone who has helped care for someone suspected of having or has been diagnosed with coronavirus (COVID-19), or who is currently subject to health monitoring for possible exposure." (Emphasis added).

So if you arrive early or have a pre-day with this France trip, you will not be able to travel with ABD through France. Lovely, just lovely.


----------



## E-Ticket

Oh yeah, we're aware that if we use the insurance we are done! That's the calculation we're trying to make: If Disney (and British Airlines) cancels, it's easy-peasy full refund. If we use insurance, it's paperwork and less money. BUT, if we wait and they DON'T cancel we get even less money through insurance. I should add that given the pandemic we don't really want to go anywhere far from home this summer.

Your experience with travel insurance is helpful, thank you.



> Just want to make sure you understand (since your post is a little ambiguous) that if you cancel your trip and get reimbursed by your insurance, you will not be eligible for any sort of additional refund if ABD ends up cancelling the trip. Once you cancel, that's the end of it.
> 
> I have found trip insurance companies very easy to work with if you have all of the needed paperwork. So I would encourage you to call the insurance company now, before you do anything. Tell them you're *considering* cancelling under their Cancel for Any Reason policy, and ask what kind of documentation/procedures they want you to follow in order to get your reimbursement from them. It will make things so much easier than trying to deal with it all after the fact.


----------



## sayhello

Grifdog22 said:


> So if your private hotel rooms are cancelled...that probably also means the ABD pre-day hotel is closed....and in the wonderful world of Disney miscommunications, lets look at their current posting.  Your/our trip begins on May 14.  All ABD trips are cancelled through the end of April. Their guidance states,
> 
> 
> "ADDITIONAL SCREENING MEASURES
> Currently, we plan to move forward with any trip not listed above.
> 
> However, we will continue to make adjustments as necessary and will notify Guests immediately should there be changes to their itinerary. At this time, *the following guidelines are in effect for all trips and will continue to evolve as more information becomes available: *
> Any Guest or guide who has traveled from,* to or through the following countries within 14 days of their trip’s departure will not be able to travel with Adventures by Disney*: Austria, Belgium, China, including Hong Kong and Macau, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, *France, *Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Iran, Italy, Japan, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, South Korea, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Monaco, San Marino and Vatican City.
> Any Guest who has been in contact with someone from these areas, *including Guests with connecting flights in these locations, also will not be able to travel*, nor will anyone who has helped care for someone suspected of having or has been diagnosed with coronavirus (COVID-19), or who is currently subject to health monitoring for possible exposure." (Emphasis added).
> 
> So if you arrive early or have a pre-day with this France trip, you will not be able to travel with ABD through France. Lovely, just lovely.


Say *what*??? We can't travel *through* France, but we can travel *to* France??  And have a trip in France??  That really makes NO sense!         I have a headache now.

Sayhello


----------



## TXTransplant

Not to excuse ABD, because I think some of the decisions they've made have been beyond stupid and disrespectful to their customers, BUT...

I wonder if they simply don't have the cash flow to give refunds out beyond a certain time period right now.  And they aren't significantly delaying PIF dates because they need that cash flow and are hedging their bets that this will all be over sooner rather than later. 

ABD is very small compared to DCL and Disney Parks, and they rely exclusively on third party vendors.  Other than the guides, ABD doesn't provide any services - everything is contracted out.

All those third-party vendors are paid in advance.  I'm guessing that none of them, and ESPECIALLY those in the hardest hit areas, are willing to give ABD any refunds. 

I say this because a co-worker of mine is (was?) supposed to get married in Italy in early May.  She said cancelling outright is simply not an option because they can't get any of their money back.  Frankly, their vendors need whatever cash they already have to survive.  The best she can do is reschedule. 

Now, ABD is part of a much larger and wealthier company, but usually companies that are broken up into divisions like this don't just pass money back and forth willy-nilly. 

Same thing goes for the airlines.  They simply can't afford to issue refunds because they have very little income coming in, so the most they will do is issue a credit...that has to be used by your original booking date.  Many people book big trips months in advance.  If the airlines end up cutting back on flights the way they are anticipating, there are going to be a lot of customers who simply won't be able to use those credits before they expire because there aren't enough flights. 

I'm also concerned about the scenario where you have a trip PIF or PIF is quickly coming due, but you simply can't get a flight to where you need to go.

Tauck has the same challenges as ABD, but they are their own stand-alone company, and they are much bigger than ABD.  I suspect Nat Geo is in a similar position to ABD.


----------



## Rapunzellover

TXTransplant said:


> Tauck has the same challenges as ABD, but they are their own stand-alone company, and they are much bigger than ABD.  I suspect Nat Geo is in a similar position to ABD.



Tauck has also been around much much longer than ABD.  They have learned over more years than ABD

As for ABD's cash flow-  I suspect you may be right... but if you are, that's poor business planning by the Mouse House.


----------



## Rapunzellover

sayhello said:


> Say *what*??? We can't travel *through* France, but we can travel *to* France??  And have a trip in France??  That really makes NO sense!         I have a headache now.
> 
> Sayhello



As Griffdog noted, if the hotel is canceled for you, it's probably gonna be canceled for ABD.  I don't see this trip going.  I don't see any Europe trips, especially to Italy, Spain or France this year at all.


----------



## sayhello

Rapunzellover said:


> As Griffdog noted, if the hotel is canceled for you, it's probably gonna be canceled for ABD.  I don't see this trip going.  I don't see any Europe trips, especially to Italy, Spain or France this year at all.


This is not the ABD hotel.  I'm staying in Paris OYO for a couple of days (after a few days in Normandy) before heading down to Lyon (with Mr & Mrs Grifdog) to catch the Rhone river cruise.  Who knows what's going on in Lyon.

I have a feeling this trip won't go, also.  But as I said to Mrs Grifdog, the suspense is killing me!

Sayhello


----------



## DisneyWishes14

Grifdog22 said:


> So if your private hotel rooms are cancelled...that probably also means the ABD pre-day hotel is closed....and in the wonderful world of Disney miscommunications, lets look at their current posting.  Your/our trip begins on May 14.  All ABD trips are cancelled through the end of April. Their guidance states,
> 
> 
> "ADDITIONAL SCREENING MEASURES
> Currently, we plan to move forward with any trip not listed above.
> 
> However, we will continue to make adjustments as necessary and will notify Guests immediately should there be changes to their itinerary. At this time, *the following guidelines are in effect for all trips and will continue to evolve as more information becomes available: *
> Any Guest or guide who has traveled from,* to or through the following countries within 14 days of their trip’s departure will not be able to travel with Adventures by Disney*: Austria, Belgium, China, including Hong Kong and Macau, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, *France, *Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Iran, Italy, Japan, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, South Korea, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Monaco, San Marino and Vatican City.
> Any Guest who has been in contact with someone from these areas, *including Guests with connecting flights in these locations, also will not be able to travel*, nor will anyone who has helped care for someone suspected of having or has been diagnosed with coronavirus (COVID-19), or who is currently subject to health monitoring for possible exposure." (Emphasis added).
> 
> So if you arrive early or have a pre-day with this France trip, you will not be able to travel with ABD through France. Lovely, just lovely.



omg.  So, we are supposed to fly to Switzerland to get on the ABD Rhine Cruise.  How does that work if we are then disallowed to travel with ABD?!  This is ridiculous.  I have to call them within the next few days to decide what I'm doing about my July SoCal/DL trip as PIF is due on Saturday.  I'm going to ask them how they expect us to fly to these countries if we then can't go on the ABD.


----------



## sayhello

DisneyWishes14 said:


> omg.  So, we are supposed to fly to Switzerland to get on the ABD Rhine Cruise.  How does that work if we are then disallowed to travel with ABD?!  This is ridiculous.  I have to call them within the next few days to decide what I'm doing about my July SoCal/DL trip as PIF is due on Saturday.  I'm going to ask them how they expect us to fly to these countries if we then can't go on the ABD.


I've emailed my TA to have her ask ABD this question.

Sayhello


----------



## E-Ticket

TXTransplant said:


> I wonder if they simply don't have the cash flow to give refunds out beyond a certain time period right now.



First off, I'm a big Robert Iger fan and a Disney stock holder.

And I totally understand what you're saying with regards to business units running in P/L and cash flow silos and this is an unprecedented situation. BUT this is Disney we're talking about—one of the largest companies in the world. They have the money and CAN move cash between business units if they desire. Or if they prefer, they can access money at very low interest rates (the Fed just went to 0%) through a myriad of sources (short term paper, bonds, etc.). Disney is very smart with their financing decisions and their bond rating is in the "A" range. They do not over leverage. What I'm trying to say is that Disney is probably in better shape than most Fortune 500 companies. They prepared, now they should step up to preserve their brand for the long haul.

If Disney wants to trash their brand over this they can—Adventures By Disney has "Disney" right there in the name. That's the brand folks will remember didn't live up to their reputation.
I know, based on the stories and reactions I see here on DISboards, that I am now more inclined in the future to use Tauck instead of ABD.

PS-Obviously Disney is getting hammered from all sides—their parks are closed, their cruise ships are docked, ESPN doesn't have any live content (March Madness!), movie theaters are closed, etc. Their execs are going goofy (pardon the bad joke). But they can survive and preserve and even enhance their brand in the process.


----------



## Bobo912

DisneyWishes14 said:


> omg.  So, we are supposed to fly to Switzerland to get on the ABD Rhine Cruise.  How does that work if we are then disallowed to travel with ABD?!  This is ridiculous.  I have to call them within the next few days to decide what I'm doing about my July SoCal/DL trip as PIF is due on Saturday.  I'm going to ask them how they expect us to fly to these countries if we then can't go on the ABD.



The Basel Airport is in France.  But that doesn't help since France is disallowed as well.


----------



## WebmasterJohn

Sorry that I am late to this thread.

If anyone is waiting to hear from your DU agent please feel free to email me at John@DreamsUnlimitedTravel.com and I will gladly make that happen.


----------



## BluesTraveler

Our Backroads hiking trip in Colorado for April has been canceled (all trips through April canceled).  Backroads is offering either a full refund, or hold your $$ for a credit PLUS $300 per person for a future trip.  Amazing, amazing customer service.


----------



## TarotFox

Where were you scheduled to be at in Colorado?

-- A nervous Coloradoan


----------



## TeeKo

Been following. Have a trip to Ireland with Thomson Family for June. PIF due 3/27. Haven’t heard from them and I haven’t reached out.


----------



## IzzyBella

TeeKo said:


> Been following. Have a trip to Ireland with Thomson Family for June. PIF due 3/27. Haven’t heard from them and I haven’t reached out.



We have a trip scheduled to the Azores with Thomson scheduled for August. My 120 day mark is approaching, which is their normal deadline for moving a deposit. I emailed them yesterday and they replied pretty quickly that they were shortening that deadline to 60 days. Pay in full is still 90 days, but the entire payment can be moved up to 60 days. I suggest reaching out via email.


----------



## TeeKo

IzzyBella said:


> We have a trip scheduled to the Azores with Thomson scheduled for August. My 120 day mark is approaching, which is their normal deadline for moving a deposit. I emailed them yesterday and they replied pretty quickly that they were shortening that deadline to 60 days. Pay in full is still 90 days, but the entire payment can be moved up to 60 days. I suggest reaching out via email.



We already bought bought our flights. With seven people, we’re more financially invested in the airfare than our deposit. 
As I am sure you know, Thomson Family doesn’t manage air travel. We went through Exito Travel. Tickets are non-refundable although they can be exchanged with penalties.
I think we are just going all in and hope it works out


----------



## BluesTraveler

TarotFox said:


> Where were you scheduled to be at in Colorado?
> 
> -- A nervous Coloradoan


The trip started in grand junction. But the cancellation applies to all Backroads trips.


----------



## Woodview

sayhello said:


> I've emailed my TA to have her ask ABD this question.
> 
> Sayhello




   All             You will   NOT  be  Flying     into  Europe          ALL    Non E.U.      will  be turned Back 

                    Look at your CNN   News        re   Shut down   in  France   Germany   Etc  

               Here in Cork   Ireland      we are  shut down    . No  Bars    And  ALL Schools  Shut  

                     No St.Patrick' Day  Parade          NO CHURCH    Services    

                      Cruise  Liners    Will Not be allowed  to disembark    passengers 

  There will be  very few  aircraft    Flying  anywhere  anyway


----------



## Woodview

TeeKo said:


> Been following. Have a trip to Ireland with Thomson Family for June. PIF due 3/27. Haven’t heard from them and I haven’t reached out.




        I live in Ireland          ( Cork )           We are  Shut down          

   NO   TOURIST  Sights  open     ,           NO  Drinking  places open  ........ etc.

   NO St.Patrick's Day  parade    . NO sporting  events   

 This  could last for several months        

  I WOULD  NOT   PAY IN FULL    on 27th March             Try Rechedual     for   September  or Next Year


----------



## DisneyWishes14

Bobo912 said:


> The Basel Airport is in France.  But that doesn't help since France is disallowed as well.



LOL - good point!  We were going to fly into Zurich a few days before and stay in Lucerne.  No matter how you slice this, I'm not sure how I fly into any country in Europe and get on a cruise in Basel based on ABD's current criteria.


----------



## E-Ticket

Quick question: Is Disney offering full refunds on cancelled trips or just credits for a future trip?


----------



## Theta

E-Ticket said:


> Quick question: Is Disney offering full refunds on cancelled trips or just credits for a future trip?



You can move to another date or adventure, "park" your money to apply to a later date/adventure (perhaps advantageous to those who have an "Early Booking Discount" that will be honored for any adventure) or a full refund.


----------



## TeeKo

Woodview said:


> I live in Ireland          ( Cork )           We are  Shut down
> 
> NO   TOURIST  Sights  open     ,           NO  Drinking  places open  ........ etc.
> 
> NO St.Patrick's Day  parade    . NO sporting  events
> 
> This  could last for several months
> 
> I WOULD  NOT   PAY IN FULL    on 27th March             Try Rechedual     for   September  or Next Year



Ugh. I will see what the penalty is to change flights


----------



## Travelling135

I can’t imagine any European trips or otherwise will happen for some time. France is in complete lock down. Residents need permission slips to leave their homes to go for a walk. The military has been called in.

Canada has closed its borders to everyone except Americans and that will likely happen soon.

I also feel ABD should be refunding airfare both ways to Australia since they insisted on continuing on with the trip.

We have been very loyal repeat ABD customers, but at this point we don’t even want to use our deposit (from cancelling before PIF for our Scotland trip in June) because we don’t trust them to make the best decisions for our family any longer. We are extremely disappointed with the handling of the most recent trips.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Travelling135 said:


> I can’t imagine any European trips or otherwise will happen for some time. France is in complete lock down. Residents need permission slips to leave their homes to go for a walk. The military has been called in.
> 
> Canada has closed its borders to everyone except Americans and that will likely happen soon.
> 
> I also feel ABD should be refunding airfare both ways to Australia since they insisted on continuing on with the trip.
> 
> We have been very loyal repeat ABD customers, but at this point we don’t even want to use our deposit (from cancelling before PIF for our Scotland trip in June) because we don’t trust them to make the best decisions for our family any longer. We are extremely disappointed with the handling of the most recent trips.


I totally agree. The entire Disney response has been reactive rather than proactive, but ABD has been the worst. I still can't believe they didn't cancel that London/Paris trip until the last minute (in addition to the Australia trip). Makes me furious when I think about it. 

To compare, that much smaller tour company that I mentioned giving everyone the option to cancel any trip they wanted until the end of the year for a full refund of any monies paid, I asked how long the offer was available and they said it was open. Pretty awesome.


----------



## lovetotravel

I would be very interested to see how their policy evolves if school districts decide to extend school until June. After all, ABD is a family focused tour company and they will need to consider how families will have to move or cancel trips due to these unforeseen changes in school schedules. Sure, ABD is out of money from all these cancellations, but our own pockets will be paying for most of the financial losses not theirs.
After many years of happiness from ABD, I am afraid that they will let me down when I needed them the most. I am starting to feel that everything has been a gimmick and not real with ABD. I am certain that Tauck will be my new company if ABD doesn't help out families soon.


----------



## sayhello

Well, by the time my TA got back to me, ABD had updated the website, and told her the "14 days" policy was from 4 days ago.  But I have screenshots of the page, labeled March 17, 2020.  I'm thinking someone is reading this thread and quickly fixed the issue that @Grifdog22 noticed.  Someone was not being careful updating the site!



E-Ticket said:


> Quick question: Is Disney offering full refunds on cancelled trips or just credits for a future trip?


Depends.  Are you asking about trips you cancelled or trips ABD cancelled?  If you cancel, ABD will offer you a credit.  If they cancel, you can get a full refund or move your date or park it as a travel credit.

Sayhello


----------



## gert

We’ve got an ABD SoCal trip booked for June. I’m not at the point of cancelling or rescheduling yet but lurking here to help that potential reality sink it. It’s going to be a huge disappointment to my daughter who is watching her senior year evaporate.


----------



## lovetotravel

Just another example why travel during this time is risky and increases your chances of being trapped in a country. I doubt the SE Asia trips can go on at this time in the near future, since they have also stopped issuing visa's which you need to travel there on the ABD trip.

*Health and Travel Alert* – U.S. Embassy Hanoi and U.S. Consulate General Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam (March 18, 2020)
*Location:* Vietnam
The U.S. Embassy in Hanoi and the U.S. Consulate General in Ho Chi Minh City advise all U.S. citizens residing or traveling in Vietnam that *the number of commercial flights departing Vietnam is rapidly decreasing*. If you are considering departing Vietnam, the U.S. Embassy advises U.S. citizens to make travel arrangements as soon as possible.


----------



## lovetotravel

gert said:


> We’ve got an ABD SoCal trip booked for June. I’m not at the point of cancelling or rescheduling yet but lurking here to help that potential reality sink it. It’s going to be a huge disappointment to my daughter who is watching her senior year evaporate.


This is us as well. We have 2 PIFs this summer and waiting it out. I'm really sad about their policy.

Does anyone know what was Thomson's policy for the virus? What about REI and Austin? One of my biggest hesitation with Thomson allowing the deposit on CC, but paying the rest via check. I wasn't comfortable with this for exactly the situation that there was no protection if they company went under.


----------



## Readytotravel

We have already paid in full for our trip to Germany in mid June. We did buy the travel insurance through ABD. However as I look back over the policy there seems to be a maximum amount  it covers. $20,000. Looks like if we have to cancel we won’t even get 75% due to the maximum. Holding out to see if they cancel.


----------



## Jess_S

lovetotravel said:


> Just another example why travel during this time is risky and increases your chances of being trapped in a country. I doubt the SE Asia trips can go on at this time in the near future, since they have also stopped issuing visa's which you need to travel there on the ABD trip.
> 
> *Health and Travel Alert* – U.S. Embassy Hanoi and U.S. Consulate General Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam (March 18, 2020)
> *Location:* Vietnam
> The U.S. Embassy in Hanoi and the U.S. Consulate General in Ho Chi Minh City advise all U.S. citizens residing or traveling in Vietnam that *the number of commercial flights departing Vietnam is rapidly decreasing*. If you are considering departing Vietnam, the U.S. Embassy advises U.S. citizens to make travel arrangements as soon as possible.


All of  southeast Asia seems to be locking itself down currently because of concern that some of the countries in the region lack resources to deal with a major covid outbreak. Singapore has reported a significant number of imported cases from other countries in the region in the past few says, so it may sadly be too late.

I dropped in to post about the marketing email I got from Spirit Airlines today. According to Spirit, it's actually "the best time to fly" currently. For some reason,  flights are just so cheap right now. Sigh.

I hope you all continue to stay safe and healthy.


----------



## sayhello

Readytotravel said:


> We have already paid in full for our trip to Germany in mid June. We did buy the travel insurance through ABD. However as I look back over the policy there seems to be a maximum amount  it covers. $20,000. Looks like if we have to cancel we won’t even get 75% due to the maximum. Holding out to see if they cancel.


Check with ABD.  The "Cancel for any Reason" coverage comes from ABD, not the insurance company, so they are not bound by the limitations on the insurance policy.  I don't believe the part that describes the Cancel for any Reason coverage mentions a limit at all.   Also, the limitation is probably per person, not reservation.  But I'd check with the insurance company for that.


Jess_S said:


> I dropped in to post about the marketing email I got from Spirit Airlines today. According to Spirit, it's actually "the best time to fly" currently. For some reason,  flights are just so cheap right now. Sigh.
> 
> I hope you all continue to stay safe and healthy.


    

Sayhello


----------



## Calfan

lovetotravel said:


> This is us as well. We have 2 PIFs this summer and waiting it out. I'm really sad about their policy.
> 
> Does anyone know what was Thomson's policy for the virus? What about REI and Austin? One of my biggest hesitation with Thomson allowing the deposit on CC, but paying the rest via check. I wasn't comfortable with this for exactly the situation that there was no protection if they company went under.



I'm not sure Thomson has a stated policy for existing bookings.  We are booked with them for Japan in June, and it seems both we and Thomson are taking a wait and see approach.  Our PIF is coming up on March 22.  Based on something I thought I saw in earlier posts here, I emailed my TA last night to see if Thomson was moving the PIF to 60 days from 90 days.  If not, I do plan to PIF.  If the trip is able to go in June, we still want to go.  If it gets cancelled, then i would expect a full refund, but I'd actually be ok with a a travel credit since this is still a trip we really want to do and would probably move it to Summer 2022.

Looks like Thomson has put the following in place for new bookings:

*Peace of Mind: Thomson’s Trip Protection Promise*
Thomson Family Adventures is dedicated to the peace of mind of our guests and staff. It’s our number one priority and informs all of our decisions.

In today’s landscape, we understand travelers may be more careful when making travel plans. That’s why we’re offering unprecedented flexibility on our most popular destinations with our Trip Protection Promise.

*Our Trip Protection Promise

Reserve space and commit to your dream vacation by May 1, 2020. You will be free to cancel at least 30 days prior to departure and receive a 100% credit for future travel.

This promise is extended to trips to the following destinations:*

Azores, Baja California, Canada, Costa Rica, Croatia, Egypt, Greece, Iceland, Italy, Japan, Morocco, Panama, Peru, Scotland, Tanzania, Thailand

Let’s keep communicating. Let’s stay informed. And let’s keep exploring the world in safety.

*Terms and Conditions*

_This policy is valid for new bookings on scheduled departures that depart before December 31, 2020. This offer ends May 1, 2020, at 11:59 p.m. EST. If you are currently booked, please call us at 800-262-6255. This offer does not apply to Alaska, Belize & Guatemala, China, Colombia, Galapagos cruises, Ireland, Switzerland, Vietnam or custom departures (Argentina, Israel, Australia, Antarctica). Additional exclusions may apply._


----------



## Calfan

lovetotravel said:


> This is us as well. We have 2 PIFs this summer and waiting it out. I'm really sad about their policy.
> 
> Does anyone know what was Thomson's policy for the virus? What about REI and Austin? One of my biggest hesitation with Thomson allowing the deposit on CC, but paying the rest via check. I wasn't comfortable with this for exactly the situation that there was no protection if they company went under.



I should also have mentioned that we do intend to pay our balance with Thomson via cc.  My understanding is that they will take them for balance payments but will impose a fee.  I've asked my TA to get a balance number from Thomson that includes the cc fee.  I just factor this fee in when pricing out Thomson trips in comparison to other providers (I use 3%).  There is no way I'm going to give up all of those cc points!


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

sayhello said:


> Well, by the time my TA got back to me, ABD had updated the website, and told her the "14 days" policy was from 4 days ago.  But I have screenshots of the page, labeled March 17, 2020.  I'm thinking someone is reading this thread and quickly fixed the issue that @Grifdog22 noticed.  Someone was not being careful updating the site!



I can tell you from personal experience that they *definitely* read the boards. And are also able to tell who some of us are IRL.


----------



## Rapunzellover

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I can tell you from personal experience that they *definitely* read the boards. And are also able to tell who some of us are IRL.



IRL?   That's not creepy at all.  
Care to tell us more about your personal experience?  Or have you done that already?


----------



## TeeKo

Calfan said:


> I should also have mentioned that we do intend to pay our balance with Thomson via cc.  My understanding is that they will take them for balance payments but will impose a fee.  I've asked my TA to get a balance number from Thomson that includes the cc fee.  I just factor this fee in when pricing out Thomson trips in comparison to other providers (I use 3%).  There is no way I'm going to give up all of those cc points!



Is there any value (beyond points) or protection by paying the balance with CC instead of a check?


----------



## sayhello

Calfan said:


> I'm not sure Thomson has a stated policy for existing bookings.  We are booked with them for Japan in June, and it seems both we and Thomson are taking a wait and see approach.  Our PIF is coming up on March 22.  Based on something I thought I saw in earlier posts here, I emailed my TA last night to see if Thomson was moving the PIF to 60 days from 90 days.  If not, I do plan to PIF.  If the trip is able to go in June, we still want to go.  If it gets cancelled, then i would expect a full refund, but I'd actually be ok with a a travel credit since this is still a trip we really want to do and would probably move it to Summer 2022.


I'm in contact with one of the Adventure Guides from our Japan ABD, and she says that the media blew up stuff about the corona virus in Japan at the beginning, and things are really quite stable there, with the percentage of infections vs population extremely low, and no lockdowns or anything.  So I would guess that your chances for Japan in June are better than most places, depending on your route getting there.

Sayhello


----------



## Calfan

TeeKo said:


> Is there any value (beyond points) or protection by paying the balance with CC instead of a check?



I plan to pay with my Chase Sapphire Reserve that offers some travel insurance benefits.  But I'm mostly paying by cc for the points.  Thomson included a travel insurance policy with our early booking for Japan, so I don't really need the extra cc insurance.  However, it will be nice to know it is there if its potentially needed as a supplement.



sayhello said:


> I'm in contact with one of the Adventure Guides from our Japan ABD, and she says that the media blew up stuff about the corona virus in Japan at the beginning, and things are really quite stable there, with the percentage of infections vs population extremely low, and no lockdowns or anything.  So I would guess that your chances for Japan in June are better than most places, depending on your route getting there.
> 
> Sayhello



This is great to hear, both for Japan itself and for the chances of our trip going.  It is what has made me cautiously optimistic that our trip still might go.  We are flying nonstop from SFO to Tokyo Haneda there and nonstop from Tokyo Narita to LAX on the return. The flights are on JAL.  We have positioning flights on both ends from/to Boise.  Worst case we can drive to SFO if for some reason we can't fly into the Bay Area for our outbound flight.


----------



## lovetotravel

TeeKo said:


> Is there any value (beyond points) or protection by paying the balance with CC instead of a check?


Here's a link to a post of how paying trip via CC was beneficial when a company went bankrupt:
https://www.disboards.com/threads/other-options.3474662/page-91#post-60996736


----------



## lovetotravel

Calfan said:


> Thomson included a travel insurance policy with our early booking for Japan, so I don't really need the extra cc insurance.


@Calfan, does Thomson always include travel insurance with booking or was this a special?


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Rapunzellover said:


> IRL?   That's not creepy at all.
> Care to tell us more about your personal experience?  Or have you done that already?


Three years ago I posted something here regarding one of our ABD trips.  The same day that I made the post I received a call from ABD which addressed the situation I was pondering. No joke. I asked how they even knew that I was thinking about the situation and they dodged the question. The *only* way they could've known is from the ABD thread on this board. I am not active on any other forum and didn't post anything on any kind of social media.


----------



## sayhello

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> Three years ago I posted something here regarding one of our ABD trips.  The same day that I made the post I received a call from ABD which addressed the situation I was pondering. No joke. I asked how they even knew that I was thinking about the situation and they dodged the question. The *only* way they could've known is from the ABD thread on this board. I am not active on any other forum and didn't post anything on any kind of social media.


I know ABD read these boards, but they don't have any more info than anyone else who posts here.  I'm pretty sure ABD just guessed who you were based on clues you gave as to your situation.

Sayhello


----------



## TeeKo

lovetotravel said:


> Here's a link to a post of how paying trip via CC was beneficial when a company went bankrupt:
> https://www.disboards.com/threads/other-options.3474662/page-91#post-60996736



It seems like 3% may be a small price to pay in these uncertain times. 
And I have a Chase Sapphire Reserve ... that’s a lot of points
Thanks!


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

sayhello said:


> I'm in contact with one of the Adventure Guides from our Japan ABD, and she says that the media blew up stuff about the corona virus in Japan at the beginning, and things are really quite stable there, with the percentage of infections vs population extremely low, and no lockdowns or anything.  So I would guess that your chances for Japan in June are better than most places, depending on your route getting there.
> 
> Sayhello


The Japan situation is really interesting, and DH and I were just discussing today why there hasn't been more in the media about what they've done to seemingly flatten the curve. We've heard a lot about South Korea and testing, but not about Japan. 

Just saw that Hawaii has requested no visitors for the next 30 days.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

Does anyone know how much the ABD travel protection costs?  I'm assuming it is some percentage of the cost of the trip?  I have to call them soon and I'm trying to weigh my options if they won't let me park my deposit.  If it isn't too cost prohibitive, it may be worth purchasing for the 75% cancel-for-any reason future trip credit.  I'm also assuming if ABD cancels and I've purchased the insurance, I would not get the cost of the insurance back?  

I don't really know what to do.  If they won't let me park the deposit, I may just let it go.  I guess I'm feeling a little lucky that this was my solo trip, so the deposit wasn't extraordinarily high.  sigh.


----------



## RSM

lovetotravel said:


> @Calfan, does Thomson always include travel insurance with booking or was this a special?


We have travelled with Thomson on 2 occasions, and travel insurance was included both times.


----------



## lovetotravel

DisneyWishes14 said:


> Does anyone know how much the ABD travel protection costs?  I'm assuming it is some percentage of the cost of the trip?  I have to call them soon and I'm trying to weigh my options if they won't let me park my deposit.  If it isn't too cost prohibitive, it may be worth purchasing for the 75% cancel-for-any reason future trip credit.  I'm also assuming if ABD cancels and I've purchased the insurance, I would not get the cost of the insurance back?
> 
> I don't really know what to do.  If they won't let me park the deposit, I may just let it go.  I guess I'm feeling a little lucky that this was my solo trip, so the deposit wasn't extraordinarily high.  sigh.


It's 8% of the trip cost. The insurance is nonrefundable. However, I am curious to know if this insurance transfers to a new trip if ABD cancels it? Or do we have to purchase again?

This 8% is not always the cheapest. Check 'insure-my-trip' or squaremouth first. However, ABD insurance seems to be convenient. I did find that ABD insurance is sometimes cheaper, it just depends on other factors.


----------



## lovetotravel

RSM said:


> We have travelled with Thomson on 2 occasions, and travel insurance was included both times.


I will have to look into this!


----------



## lovetotravel

lovetotravel said:


> It's 8% of the trip cost. The insurance is nonrefundable. However, I am curious to know if this insurance transfers to a new trip if ABD cancels it? Or do we have to purchase again?
> 
> This 8% is not always the cheapest. Check 'insure-my-trip' or squaremouth first. However, ABD insurance seems to be convenient. I did find that ABD insurance is sometimes cheaper, it just depends on other factors.


If it transfers it might actually be worth it because the one I have does not transfer and I have to repurchase.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

lovetotravel said:


> It's 8% of the trip cost. The insurance is nonrefundable. However, I am curious to know if this insurance transfers to a new trip if ABD cancels it? Or do we have to purchase again?
> 
> This 8% is not always the cheapest. Check 'insure-my-trip' or squaremouth first. However, ABD insurance seems to be convenient. I did find that ABD insurance is sometimes cheaper, it just depends on other factors.



Thank you so much!  I typically use a different insurance company for all of our trips, however, I am outside the CFR window for that insurance as I paid my deposit more than 21 days ago.  That's why I thought ABD's might be useful as it has the 75% travel credit component even if I purchase it at this late date (as long as I add it at PIF).  

Hmm - if I add the insurance and have to cancel, even with the 75% travel credit, it would mean I would be out about $1450.  Maybe I should just eat the deposit at this point?  It would actually be cheaper to lose the deposit and then re-book the same trip if things look better in a few months.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

lovetotravel said:


> If it transfers it might actually be worth it because the one I have does not transfer and I have to repurchase.



That's a great question.  I purchased third-party insurance for a Mexico trip we were supposed to be on this week and I was able to transfer the insurance to new dates.  I just had to pick the new dates prior to my original check-in date.  I will definitely ask ABD!


----------



## lovetotravel

DisneyWishes14 said:


> Thank you so much!  I typically use a different insurance company for all of our trips, however, I am outside the CFR window for that insurance as I paid my deposit more than 21 days ago.  That's why I thought ABD's might be useful as it has the 75% travel credit component even if I purchase it at this late date (as long as I add it at PIF).
> 
> Hmm - if I add the insurance and have to cancel, even with the 75% travel credit, it would mean I would be out about $1450.  Maybe I should just eat the deposit at this point?  It would actually be cheaper to lose the deposit and then re-book the same trip if things look better in a few months.


Yes another advantage to ABD insurance is being able to add CFAR anytime prior to PIF. 

Can you park the deposit without loosing it?


----------



## Calfan

I have a Thomson update.  My TA just confirmed they are moving our PIF date to 60 days from 90 days.  So now our PIF date is April 21, and not March 22.  She is still working with them to find out if their new policy about being able to cancel up to 30 days out would apply to our trip and, if so, what time limit there might be as to when we would need to use the travel credit.  But I'm hoping we won't be in the position of paying in full on April 20 and then wanting to cancel on or prior to May 20.  



lovetotravel said:


> @Calfan, does Thomson always include travel insurance with booking or was this a special?





RSM said:


> We have travelled with Thomson on 2 occasions, and travel insurance was included both times.



I actually couldn't remember if this was a benefit we received for plunking down a deposit in 2017 for this 2020 Japan trip (we did lock in 2017 pricing by doing this) or something that is always included.  But it seems right that I didn't buy separate travel insurance when we did China with Thomson in 2016.  Not having to buy travel insurance makes the credit card fee a little easier to swallow....


----------



## morgan98

Rapunzellover said:


> As Griffdog noted, if the hotel is canceled for you, it's probably gonna be canceled for ABD.  I don't see this trip going.  I don't see any Europe trips, especially to Italy, Spain or France this year at all.



Sorry I had been posting on this thread, but haven't posted for a few days.  Unfortunately I agree with this.  Several sets of relatives tell us how grim it is in Italy right now and Spain and France are closely behind.  I think once they even begin to ease travel restriction it will be a long slow road back.  In addition may of the smaller hotels and restaurants my never open again as the blow to the economy is huge.

On a positive note, we are on Day 9 of my husband being back from Italy and no signs of illness but we are still quarantining.  I am dealing with helping my firm transition to work from home for the past week or so too.

This is all so surreal.  I was supposed to be in Italy as we speak and usually go twice a year.  Last night we said going this year may not even be feasible, but I guess we shall see.  And with what is going on here who knows if that can even be a priority by then.

Trying to stay positive, but it is hard for sure with the uncertainty.


----------



## disneyholic family

sayhello said:


> I'm in contact with one of the Adventure Guides from our Japan ABD, and she says that the media blew up stuff about the corona virus in Japan at the beginning, and things are really quite stable there, with the percentage of infections vs population extremely low, and no lockdowns or anything.  So I would guess that your chances for Japan in June are better than most places, depending on your route getting there.
> 
> Sayhello





CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> The Japan situation is really interesting, and DH and I were just discussing today why there hasn't been more in the media about what they've done to seemingly flatten the curve. We've heard a lot about South Korea and testing, but not about Japan.
> 
> Just saw that Hawaii has requested no visitors for the next 30 days.




i would take what the Japan ABD adventure guide said with a grain of salt.  Actually, more like a kilo.

The numbers of actual cases in Japan are most likely much higher than the numbers that are being shown as confirmed.
The Japanese government is not testing.
They have the tests available, they're just doing very little testing.
They make all sorts of bogus claims as to why they're doing so little testing, but no doubt it's an attempt to make things look better than they are as the olympic games draw closer.

The numbers are most certainly much higher than the Japanese are claiming.
.


----------



## disneyholic family

'
as for Italy, 475 people died there today from corona virus
beyond all comprehension...
bringing the total number who have died in Italy so far to 2,978

and total confirmed cases in Italy is 35,713  - having increased today by 4,207

and there are now 2,257 people in Italy in serious/critical condition..
'


----------



## morgan98

disneyholic family said:


> i would take what the Japan ABD adventure guide said with a grain of salt.  Actually, more like a kilo.
> 
> The numbers of actual cases in Japan are most likely much higher than the numbers that are being shown as confirmed.
> The Japanese government is not testing.
> They have the tests available, they're just doing very little testing.
> They make all sorts of bogus claims as to why they're doing so little testing, but no doubt it's an attempt to make things look better than they are as the olympic games draw closer.
> 
> The numbers are most certainly much higher than the Japanese are claiming.
> .



I have wondered this as it seems strange their numbers are not really increasing and the Diamond Princess cases are still a good number of their cases.  It does make you wonder though, as delaying the Olympics would be devastating.


----------



## disneyholic family

morgan98 said:


> I have wondered this as it seems strange their numbers are not really increasing and the Diamond Princess cases are still a good number of their cases.  It does make you wonder though, as delaying the Olympics would be devastating.



there are articles all over the Japanese press attacking the government for not testing..
the government claims that testing doesn't serve a clinical purpose, so they're only doing limited testing for epidemiological research. 
As i said, bogus excuses.  What they're really doing is attempting to make it look like everything is A-OK. 
.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

lovetotravel said:


> Yes another advantage to ABD insurance is being able to add CFAR anytime prior to PIF.
> 
> *Can you park the deposit without loosing it?*



I'm not sure.  I really need to call and ask.  Honestly, I've been putting it off.  Like many of us, I've fallen into a bit of a funk.  It took a bit of wrangling to unwind the trip we were supposed to be on now.  Picking up the phone and potentially wrangling with another travel company is not high on the list of things I want to do right now.  I do need to call by Friday though.  Parking the deposit would be the best case scenario!


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

disneyholic family said:


> there are articles all over the Japanese press attacking the government for not testing..
> the government claims that testing doesn't serve a clinical purpose, so they're only doing limited testing for epidemiological research.
> As i said, bogus excuses.  What they're really doing is attempting to make it look like everything is A-OK.
> .


If this is true, it will eventually catch up with them though. There is no way to hide it once the deaths start coming. This is all just so horrible.


----------



## disneyholic family

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> If this is true, it will eventually catch up with them though. There is no way to hide it once the deaths start coming. This is all just so horrible.



I agree. I would think it will have to catch up with them at some point.  Although, Russia's doing a good job of hiding their numbers. 
.


----------



## Calfan

morgan98 said:


> I have wondered this as it seems strange their numbers are not really increasing and the Diamond Princess cases are still a good number of their cases.  It does make you wonder though, as delaying the Olympics would be devastating.





disneyholic family said:


> there are articles all over the Japanese press attacking the government for not testing..
> the government claims that testing doesn't serve a clinical purpose, so they're only doing limited testing for epidemiological research.
> As i said, bogus excuses.  What they're really doing is attempting to make it look like everything is A-OK.
> .





CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> If this is true, it will eventually catch up with them though. There is no way to hide it once the deaths start coming. This is all just so horrible.



Well, all of this is making me even more glad that Thomson is giving us an extra 30 days for a PIF decision.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

disneyholic family said:


> I agree. I would think it will have to catch up with them at some point.  Although, Russia's doing a good job of hiding their numbers.
> .


Russia's numbers are not believable at all. We are supposed to be traveling there May 24-28 and Scott Dunn is forcing us to pay in full for the trip. Apparently the tour operators in Russia won't refund them any money (even though I asked that they not give any deposits to Russia tour operators until I had my visa, so don't know how this happened). Now they have closed their borders. And I read that they are building a hospital specifically for virus patients. Yes, all 63 of them (that's what I read they've reported). Okey dokey.


----------



## TeeKo

RSM said:


> We have travelled with Thomson on 2 occasions, and travel insurance was included both times.



This is my second Thomson trip and travel insurance wasn’t included. Is this something I should have haggled for?


----------



## Calfan

TeeKo said:


> This is my second Thomson trip and travel insurance wasn’t included. Is this something I should have haggled for?



Maybe it's just an early booking benefit?  Not sure when you booked.  But we booked Japan waaayyy early, and China also more than a year in advance.  I just went back to my email folder for our China trip, and I don't see any indication that we bought insurance separately.


----------



## TeeKo

Calfan said:


> Maybe it's just an early booking benefit?  Not sure when you booked.  But we booked Japan waaayyy early, and China also more than a year in advance.  I just went back to my email folder for our China trip, and I don't see any indication that we bought insurance separately.



Not sure. I put a deposit down on this specific trip 15 to 18 months in advance. I was directed to purchase travel insurance through an outside agency


----------



## RSM

Calfan said:


> Maybe it's just an early booking benefit?  Not sure when you booked.  But we booked Japan waaayyy early, and China also more than a year in advance.  I just went back to my email folder for our China trip, and I don't see any indication that we bought insurance separately.


You might be right.  For each of our trips we booked way in advance (not as far as Calfan  --3 years is impressive) but about 10-12 months in advance and we did get early booking discounts, a GO Pro, a repeat customer discount, and some other perks.  One of which I think is the free trip insurance.


----------



## TeeKo

RSM said:


> You might be right.  For each of our trips we booked way in advance (not as far as Calfan  --3 years is impressive) but about 10-12 months in advance and we did get early booking discounts, a GO Pro, a repeat customer discount, and some other perks.  One of which I think is the free trip insurance.



We received all the discounts you mentioned and have a collection of GO Pros now. Free trip insurance would definitely be the most valuable although not sure it would help with the current pandemic situation.


----------



## Grotto

Just got off the phone with AbD.  Our PIF day is tomorrow and I was ready to fight for a delay or to move my deposit to a different trip next year.  The lady I spoke with said they just received a notice in the past hour that PIFs can be delayed an additional 30 days.  So I have until April 18th to decide whether or not to commit to our upcoming Germany trip.  She said we would be receiving emails about the policy tonight or tomorrow.


----------



## disneyholic family

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> Russia's numbers are not believable at all. We are supposed to be traveling there May 24-28 and Scott Dunn is forcing us to pay in full for the trip. Apparently the tour operators in Russia won't refund them any money (even though I asked that they not give any deposits to Russia tour operators until I had my visa, so don't know how this happened). Now they have closed their borders. And I read that they are building a hospital specifically for virus patients. Yes, all 63 of them (that's what I read they've reported). Okey dokey.



yes, for sure they're totally lying.....no doubt about it......the iron curtain may have fallen, but they're still very much state controlled...


----------



## disneyholic family

Grotto said:


> Just got off the phone with AbD.  Our PIF day is tomorrow and I was ready to fight for a delay or to move my deposit to a different trip next year.  The lady I spoke with said they just received a notice in the past hour that PIFs can be delayed an additional 30 days.  So I have until April 18th to decide whether or not to commit to our upcoming Germany trip.  She said we would be receiving emails about the policy tonight or tomorrow.



that's good news!!!!


----------



## disneyholic family

disneyholic family said:


> Related to travel, but certainly not ABD sort of travel.
> Israeli kids have a tradition of backpacking after they finish compulsory military service.
> They backpack for months to a year, trekking through 3 preferred locations:  Southeast Asia, Nepal, and all around South America.
> 
> The border in Peru was closed yesterday, so hundreds of israeli backpackers are now stranded in Peru, unable to get out (there were no flights available to anywhere).
> So Israel is sending planes to Peru to bring them all back home.
> 
> A lot of families are breathing easier today, knowing their kids will be coming home soon.
> If you do end up needing medical care, you'd much rather be at home.
> Even if the medical system crashes, you'd rather be in the crashing system you know with your family nearby.
> .



so remember this story i told you about?  turns out there are a 1,000 of these backpacking kids in peru...
600 of them are stuck in Cusco, Peru (in the Peruvian Andes where they were trekking).
they had tickets on specially organized local charter flights to get them to Lima, to get to the planes that Israel is sending to Peru to get them out.
But Peru wouldn't let the 600 board the internal flights to get to Lima and made them leave the area of the airport...
So now they're still stuck in Cusco.  
In the meantime, the Israeli foreign ministry is desperately negotiating with Peru to try to get them out of Cusco to get to Lima for the convoy of planes coming to pick up the stranded Israelis.  
The flight in each direction is 16 hours.  The planes were standing by last i heard to take off for Peru.
The flights are free.  But the backpackers have to get there to be able to get on board.

And I've heard there are hundreds of other foreign nationals stuck in Peru with no way to get out, also begging their countries to help them leave.
And the other South American countries are closing their borders as well.
The foreign ministry warned everyone anywhere in South America to get out now as if they don't leave immediately, they won't be able to leave until who knows when.
Indeed a nightmare. 
.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

Grotto said:


> Just got off the phone with AbD.  Our PIF day is tomorrow and I was ready to fight for a delay or to move my deposit to a different trip next year.  The lady I spoke with said they just received a notice in the past hour that PIFs can be delayed an additional 30 days.  So I have until April 18th to decide whether or not to commit to our upcoming Germany trip.  She said we would be receiving emails about the policy tonight or tomorrow.



Oh my gosh.  Thank you so much for posting this!  We have one PIF due at the end of the week and another in early April.  This is really good news!


----------



## DisneyWishes14

disneyholic family said:


> so remember this story i told you about?  turns out there are a 1,000 of these backpacking kids in peru...
> 600 of them are stuck in Cusco, Peru (in the Peruvian Andes where they were trekking).
> they had tickets on specially organized local charter flights to get them to Lima, to get to the planes that Israel is sending to Peru to get them out.
> But Peru wouldn't let the 600 board the internal flights to get to Lima and made them leave the area of the airport...
> So now they're still stuck in Cusco.
> In the meantime, the Israeli foreign ministry is desperately negotiating with Peru to try to get them out of Cusco to get to Lima for the convoy of planes coming to pick up the stranded Israelis.
> The flight in each direction is 16 hours.  The planes were standing by last i heard to take off for Peru.
> The flights are free.  But the backpackers have to get there to be able to get on board.
> 
> And I've heard there are hundreds of other foreign nationals stuck in Peru with no way to get out, also begging their countries to help them leave.
> And the other South American countries are closing their borders as well.
> The foreign ministry warned everyone anywhere in South America to get out now as if they don't leave immediately, they won't be able to leave until who knows when.
> Indeed a nightmare.
> .



Yes, apparently there are also hundreds of US citizens trapped there as well.  I have read there are many also stuck in Morocco.  My DH and I were just discussing today how relieved we are that we didn't fly to Mexico last Friday.  Our borders with Mexico remain open for now, but circumstances have changed so rapidly over the past week.  Praying everyone remains safe and can get home soon.  It's a very scary situation.


----------



## chuff88

Grotto said:


> Just got off the phone with AbD.  Our PIF day is tomorrow and I was ready to fight for a delay or to move my deposit to a different trip next year.  The lady I spoke with said they just received a notice in the past hour that PIFs can be delayed an additional 30 days.  So I have until April 18th to decide whether or not to commit to our upcoming Germany trip.  She said we would be receiving emails about the policy tonight or tomorrow.


Do you know what the timeframe for this is? Our PIF is end of April and another month would be... great.


----------



## dolewhipdreams

chuff88 said:


> Do you know what the timeframe for this is? Our PIF is end of April and another month would be... great.


I was just about to ask the same question! Ours is May 1


----------



## kaseyC

dolewhipdreams said:


> I was just about to ask the same question! Ours is May 1



I'm wondering the same.  Our PIF date is May 9.


----------



## Cliffside

Just read over on another thread that DCL has taken off all European cruises off their website until July 25th. Don’t know if and when they will officially cancel them or what it will mean for the Adventures in May, June and July?


----------



## E-Ticket

The State Dept may go to a Level 4 Warning! (Please google I it, I can’t get the link to work)


If the State Department goes to Level 4 it may change Disney’s approach. They may HAVE to be more forthcoming and consider the liabilities of their choices.


----------



## lovetotravel

E-Ticket said:


> The State Dept may go to a Level 4 Warning! (Please google I it, I can’t get the link to work)
> 
> 
> If the State Department goes to Level 4 it may change Disney’s approach. They may HAVE to be more forthcoming and consider the liabilities of their choices.


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...ment-raise-travel-warnings-americans-n1164021
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/19/coronavirus-travel-advisory-level-four-137227


----------



## sayhello

lovetotravel said:


> https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...ment-raise-travel-warnings-americans-n1164021
> https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/19/coronavirus-travel-advisory-level-four-137227


What the articles don't say is if they think it will be for a period of time or indefinitely.  

Sayhello


----------



## E-Ticket

sayhello said:


> What the articles don't say is if they think it will be for a period of time or indefinitely.
> 
> Sayhello


I wish it did. We'll see when/if the actual policy is announced. But based on the implications of such a bold order, Disney should do the right thing and be VERY flexible with ALL of their clients RIGHT NOW. Yes, even if your trip is as far out as Sept/Oct/Nov/etc. ABD clients are Disney's luxury brand ambassadors. You don't want this crowd to "put on their angry eyes!"

Based on news reports, this pandemic isn't going away any time soon and they can occur in waves. So, I'm not sure how many folks will be interested in travelling as this first appears to subside anyway. My family is in agreement — no travel this summer!! Disney is making a calculation in an attempt to salvage their summer season and we are all caught up in it. I'm a huge Disney fan, but this saddens me.


----------



## Networth

https://travel.state.gov/content/tr...ert-global-level-4-health-advisory-issue.html
It’s official now, with no end date listed.


----------



## acndis

Networth said:


> https://travel.state.gov/content/tr...ert-global-level-4-health-advisory-issue.html
> It’s official now, with no end date listed.


Surely, surely they will start summer cancellations now.  

Again, a quicker action would have made me more amenable to rebooking.  If they would have acted more quickly (like DCL), I would have moved my deposit (like I did for DCL).  Now, I am just hoping for a refund/cancellation.I hope they are reading this and start making the tough decisions.


----------



## disneyholic family

Networth said:


> https://travel.state.gov/content/tr...ert-global-level-4-health-advisory-issue.html
> It’s official now, with no end date listed.



the state department was a little slow coming out with this warning...
i get the US embassy warnings, and there has been no hint that this was coming..
meanwhile, borders have been closing all over the place....
they issued the warning only after americans were already caught behind the closed borders...
.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

I am looking for some advice. My PIF for Scott Dunn is tomorrow. For perspective they are a UK-based company that have rave reviews online.

I have been trying to get them to communicate with me this week to no avail. If I send an e-mail it bounces back saying to bear with them as they try to repatriate guests currently traveling. I have asked to have my PIF moved to April 24th (30 days before departure) or to refund my money (deposit was $5,000.00). However since they are not communicating with me I don't know what to do. Their t&c state that if I don't PIF by the due date then I forfeit my deposit and they will cancel the trip. However they won't answer any communication from me. I have tried calling their phone number but it's impossible to get anyone live. I am stuck in a catch-22 situation. 

I have thought about filing a dispute with Chase (I paid the deposit with a Visa), but that would be a last resort and I didn't want to go that route. With a level 4 warning against all foreign travel it is obvious, at least in the US, that travel as early as May, just isn't going to happen. And I don't really want to PIF and have Scott Dunn go bankrupt, then deal with the fallout.


----------



## BluesTraveler

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I am looking for some advice. My PIF for Scott Dunn is tomorrow. For perspective they are a UK-based company that have rave reviews online.
> 
> I have been trying to get them to communicate with me this week to no avail. If I send an e-mail it bounces back saying to bear with them as they try to repatriate guests currently traveling. I have asked to have my PIF moved to April 24th (30 days before departure) or to refund my money (deposit was $5,000.00). However since they are not communicating with me I don't know what to do. Their t&c state that if I don't PIF by the due date then I forfeit my deposit and they will cancel the trip. However they won't answer any communication from me. I have tried calling their phone number but it's impossible to get anyone live. I am stuck in a catch-22 situation.
> 
> I have thought about filing a dispute with Chase (I paid the deposit with a Visa), but that would be a last resort and I didn't want to go that route. With a level 4 warning against all foreign travel it is obvious, at least in the US, that travel as early as May, just isn't going to happen. And I don't really want to PIF and have Scott Dunn go bankrupt, then deal with the fallout.


I wouldn't pay in full.  The $5000 is a sunk cost, no point in throwing good $$ after bad.


----------



## disneyholic family

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I am looking for some advice. My PIF for Scott Dunn is tomorrow. For perspective they are a UK-based company that have rave reviews online.
> 
> I have been trying to get them to communicate with me this week to no avail. If I send an e-mail it bounces back saying to bear with them as they try to repatriate guests currently traveling. I have asked to have my PIF moved to April 24th (30 days before departure) or to refund my money (deposit was $5,000.00). However since they are not communicating with me I don't know what to do. Their t&c state that if I don't PIF by the due date then I forfeit my deposit and they will cancel the trip. However they won't answer any communication from me. I have tried calling their phone number but it's impossible to get anyone live. I am stuck in a catch-22 situation.
> 
> I have thought about filing a dispute with Chase (I paid the deposit with a Visa), but that would be a last resort and I didn't want to go that route. With a level 4 warning against all foreign travel it is obvious, at least in the US, that travel as early as May, just isn't going to happen. And I don't really want to PIF and have Scott Dunn go bankrupt, then deal with the fallout.



i definitely wouldn't PIF. That certainly would  be throwing good money after bad. 
Have you tried calling?  Is there a number to call at all?
I would send an email stating exactly what you wrote. That in the current situation, you need to delay the PIF.
I'm saying to write the email, just so you have a paper trail to show Chase when you make the claim for your deposit.

.


----------



## Calfan

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I am looking for some advice. My PIF for Scott Dunn is tomorrow. For perspective they are a UK-based company that have rave reviews online.
> 
> I have been trying to get them to communicate with me this week to no avail. If I send an e-mail it bounces back saying to bear with them as they try to repatriate guests currently traveling. I have asked to have my PIF moved to April 24th (30 days before departure) or to refund my money (deposit was $5,000.00). However since they are not communicating with me I don't know what to do. Their t&c state that if I don't PIF by the due date then I forfeit my deposit and they will cancel the trip. However they won't answer any communication from me. I have tried calling their phone number but it's impossible to get anyone live. I am stuck in a catch-22 situation.
> 
> I have thought about filing a dispute with Chase (I paid the deposit with a Visa), but that would be a last resort and I didn't want to go that route. With a level 4 warning against all foreign travel it is obvious, at least in the US, that travel as early as May, just isn't going to happen. And I don't really want to PIF and have Scott Dunn go bankrupt, then deal with the fallout.



So sorry you are in this situation   If it were me, I would not PIF based on the risk you mention in your post (i.e., Scott Dunn potentially going BK after you PIF).  Better to create a record of the numerous times you have tried to reach out to them about moving your PIF date or changing the dates of your trip, etc. and then fight with them later regarding your deposit.  I also wouldn't hesitate to file a dispute with Chase.


----------



## TeeKo

Calfan said:


> I have a Thomson update.  My TA just confirmed they are moving our PIF date to 60 days from 90 days.  So now our PIF date is April 21, and not March 22.  She is still working with them to find out if their new policy about being able to cancel up to 30 days out would apply to our trip and, if so, what time limit there might be as to when we would need to use the travel credit.  But I'm hoping we won't be in the position of paying in full on April 20 and then wanting to cancel on or prior to May 20.



Received an email from Thomson Family today (I didn’t write them). My PIF date is in one week. I was offered to postpone my trip for one year without penalty. However, once we are inside 90 days, “there are penalties.” No mention of moving my PIF to 60 days like you received.

Penalty on exchanging my airline tickets is $400 per person (Our family is 7 people). So $2800 to walk away from this for a year


----------



## Calfan

TeeKo said:


> Received an email from Thomson Family today (I didn’t write them). My PIF date is in one week. I was offered to postpone my trip for one year without penalty. However, once we are inside 90 days, “there are penalties.” No mention of moving my PIF to 60 days like you received.
> 
> Penalty on exchanging my airline tickets is $400 per person (Our family is 7 people). So $2800 to walk away from this for a year



Maybe call them and ask about moving your PIF date?  I'm not sure what contributed to our getting it:  the fact that we are past Thomson travelers, that we booked this trip so early , or that we had a TA advocating for us.


----------



## TeeKo

Calfan said:


> Maybe call them and ask about moving your PIF date?  I'm not sure what contributed to our getting it:  the fact that we are past Thomson travelers, that we booked this trip so early , or that we had a TA advocating for us.



Between the travel insurance and 60 day PIF, there certainly seems to be a two tiered system for sure! Too bad I’m in the lower caste
We have traveled with them only once in the past and booked this trip over 15 months in advance.
Anyway, I’m inclined to walk away at this point.


----------



## Calfan

TeeKo said:


> Between the travel insurance and 60 day PIF, there certainly seems to be a two tiered system for sure! Too bad I’m in the lower caste
> We have traveled with them only once in the past and booked this trip over 15 months in advance.
> Anyway, I’m inclined to walk away at this point.



Wow!  The way you are being treated differently is troubling and hard to figure out.  We've only done one prior trip with them as well.  So sorry this is happening.  And I totally understand why you might be inclined to just walk away.  If it were me, I'd still take a run at trying to get the deposit refunded...


----------



## DisneyWishes14

I just got off the phone with ABD (no wait!).  The Vacationista was incredibly helpful and, as Grotto reported yesterday, they have extended PIFs by 30 days - hurray!  That means my SoCal isn't due until late April and Rhine is due mid-May.  She also mentioned they would let us move the deposit once prior to PIF, so that is an option as well if I want to move these trips into 2021.  I feel a bit relieved!


----------



## TeeKo

Calfan said:


> Wow!  The way you are being treated differently is troubling and hard to figure out.  We've only done one prior trip with them as well.  So sorry this is happening.  And I totally understand why you might be inclined to just walk away.  If it were me, I'd still take a run at trying to get the deposit refunded...



I have 5 kids and DH who really want to go to Ireland. And I’m losing energy over all of this! I’m almost looking for path of least resistance at this point


----------



## E-Ticket

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I am looking for some advice. My PIF for Scott Dunn is tomorrow. For perspective they are a UK-based company that have rave reviews online.
> 
> I have been trying to get them to communicate with me this week to no avail. If I send an e-mail it bounces back saying to bear with them as they try to repatriate guests currently traveling. I have asked to have my PIF moved to April 24th (30 days before departure) or to refund my money (deposit was $5,000.00). However since they are not communicating with me I don't know what to do. Their t&c state that if I don't PIF by the due date then I forfeit my deposit and they will cancel the trip. However they won't answer any communication from me. I have tried calling their phone number but it's impossible to get anyone live. I am stuck in a catch-22 situation.
> 
> I have thought about filing a dispute with Chase (I paid the deposit with a Visa), but that would be a last resort and I didn't want to go that route. With a level 4 warning against all foreign travel it is obvious, at least in the US, that travel as early as May, just isn't going to happen. And I don't really want to PIF and have Scott Dunn go bankrupt, then deal with the fallout.



As everyone has said:
1. Do not PIF!
2. Document your attempts to contact
3. File a dispute with your VISA

I would add a couple things.
1. Start the dispute now, like today or tomorrow. There are going to be a ton of these with banks due the pandemic, so get in line early.
2. I've disputed two charges in my many, many years of having a credit card. Both went super smooth. My bank was on my side the entire time and took care of everything. Very cool.

One was for a weird international GST tax charge in Italy. The other was for a fraudulent charge from Spirit Airlines that Spirit DISPUTED! Yes, Spirit told my bank the charge was legit even though the names on the tickets were not us and the flights were not anywhere near my home city/state. Spirit Airlines seems super scummy.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Calfan said:


> So sorry you are in this situation   If it were me, I would not PIF based on the risk you mention in your post (i.e., Scott Dunn potentially going BK after you PIF).  Better to create a record of the numerous times you have tried to reach out to them about moving your PIF date or changing the dates of your trip, etc. and then fight with them later regarding your deposit.  I also wouldn't hesitate to file a dispute with Chase.


I have everything documented in e-mails. Including them saying they would call me on Monday at 9:30, then saying their phone lines were down all day so they couldn't call. Promising to call the next day, then too busy dealing with repatriating other customers. Now I haven't heard anything for 3 days and here I am at PIF and no communication from them.

I am going to dispute the charge with Chase. I don't know under what category I will file, but I will ask for their assistance and see what they say.


----------



## Woodview

TeeKo said:


> Received an email from Thomson Family today (I didn’t write them). My PIF date is in one week. I was offered to postpone my trip for one year without penalty. However, once we are inside 90 days, “there are penalties.” No mention of moving my PIF to 60 days like you received.
> 
> Penalty on exchanging my airline tickets is $400 per person (Our family is 7 people). So $2800 to walk away from this for a year



   Which  Airline       ?            If it an European  Airline    you may get your money back   . If paid by  Credit Card  

 you should try that way 

  THERE are   No  /   very  few   Flights  into   Europe      SO  Advice would be to   postpone  till  2021


----------



## TeeKo

Woodview said:


> Which  Airline       ?            If it an European  Airline    you may get your money back   . If paid by  Credit Card
> 
> you should try that way
> 
> THERE are   No  /   very  few   Flights  into   Europe      SO  Advice would be to   postpone  till  2021



United Airlines 
Paid with my Chase Sapphire Reserve in August 2019.
I think with the flights, I just need to lay low and hope the flight is canceled. I think I don’t need to make a move on the flight until the week before departure?

I just need to tell Thomson if I’m backing out within the next week.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

Here is the official announcement regarding ABD PIF extensions for summer trips:

Beginning March 19, 2020, a final payment extension will be automatically added to all reservations for adventures departing July 15 and August 31, 2020.

Final Payments will be extended out an additional 30 days.

Example: A departure with a final payment due today, March 19, 2020, will be extended to April 18, 2020.


The deposit payment will continue to follow current cancellation guidelines and is non-refundable 15+ days after it is paid should the Guest choose to cancel their reservation
With this extension, final payment is due 90 days before Adventure start


----------



## Rapunzellover

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I have everything documented in e-mails. Including them saying they would call me on Monday at 9:30, then saying their phone lines were down all day so they couldn't call. Promising to call the next day, then too busy dealing with repatriating other customers. Now I haven't heard anything for 3 days and here I am at PIF and no communication from them.
> 
> I am going to dispute the charge with Chase. I don't know under what category I will file, but I will ask for their assistance and see what they say.



Chase should not give you any hassle.  Have had several fraudulent charges dealt with by them...successfully.  If you thoroughly explain the situation,  I'm sure they'll help.  If you are getting no communication with Scott Dunn to dispute the charges, then you have no choice.  It may take time to get resolved though.

I am disgusted on your behalf that they are treating you this way, and that they charged vendors when you said to wait is also troubling and they should be on everyone's no list now.


----------



## laceltris3

DisneyWishes14 said:


> Here is the official announcement regarding ABD PIF extensions for summer trips:
> 
> Beginning March 19, 2020, a final payment extension will be automatically added to all reservations for adventures departing July 15 and August 31, 2020.
> 
> Final Payments will be extended out an additional 30 days.
> 
> Example: A departure with a final payment due today, March 19, 2020, will be extended to April 18, 2020.
> 
> 
> The deposit payment will continue to follow current cancellation guidelines and is non-refundable 15+ days after it is paid should the Guest choose to cancel their reservation
> With this extension, final payment is due 90 days before Adventure start


PIF 90 days out still seems incredibly far, given the rate at which things are changing. I cannot imagine I would ever PIF with ABD in these circumstances, given their lack of responsiveness and willingness to move quickly and in the best interests of their guests.


----------



## sayhello

So AmaWaterways has suspended their river cruise operations through May 31 as of 10pm last night.  I'm pretty sure that means ABD is going to have to cancel my ABD river cruise.  No ship, no cruise (my Rhone cruise starts [started] May 14).

https://www.amawaterways.com/travel-updates

I wonder how long it will take ABD to cancel?

Sayhello


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

sayhello said:


> So AmaWaterways has suspended their river cruise operations through May 31 as of 10pm last night.  I'm pretty sure that means ABD is going to have to cancel my ABD river cruise.  No ship, no cruise (my Rhone cruise starts [started] May 14).
> 
> https://www.amawaterways.com/travel-updates
> 
> I wonder how long it will take ABD to cancel?
> 
> Sayhello


They should have cancelled before that announcement! Brutal that they didn’t tell you first and you had to read it yourself. Who they heck is running the show and making these horrible CS decisions? Get rid of them.
But I’m so sorry that your vacation has gotten caught up in all of this


----------



## E-Ticket

Let me get this straight.


People are dying
People are scared
There are Level 4 Travel Restrictions with no time frame given
The EU is Closed (among many other countries/areas)
California is Closed
The global economy is in shambles
The airlines are cutting the number of flights in half or more

But Disney is:

Seriously believing that summer 2020 trips are going to happen
Thinking, "Oh yeah, families with kids are excited for their trips right now" 
Following the standard corporate playbook

Wow, just wow.


----------



## acndis

E-Ticket said:


> Let me get this straight.
> 
> 
> People are dying
> People are scared
> There are Level 4 Travel Restrictions with no time frame given
> The EU is Closed (among many other countries/areas)
> California is Closed
> The global economy is in shambles
> The airlines are cutting the number of flights in half or more
> 
> But Disney is:
> 
> Seriously believing that summer 2020 trips are going to happen
> Thinking, "Oh yeah, families with kids are excited for their trips right now"
> Following the standard corporate playbook
> 
> Wow, just wow.


It's killing me.  It really is.  They need to come up with a solution to these summer trips in the next few days.  My enthusiasm for ABD has been waning.  We got pulled back in with a great Egypt itinerary but now that we have my 77 year old dad booked on the trip with no sign of a good decision by Disney, I think I am out unless they really come through soon.  Coming through means allowing us to cancel with refunds since we will not be able to fly to Egypt this summer.  All itineraries go through Europe and the virus will likely (though I really hope not) be in full swing in Africa/Middle East by that time.


----------



## lovetotravel

Delta continues to lead the way by waiving fees for May international flights. United and American are still until end of April.

https://www.delta.com/us/en/advisories/coronavirus-travel/cancel-change-requirementsDelta is waiving all change fees for travel impacted by coronavirus. This applies to all U.S. domestic and international travel departing in March or April 2020, *international flights departing in May 2020*, as well as all tickets purchased in March 2020.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

E-Ticket said:


> Let me get this straight.
> 
> 
> People are dying
> People are scared
> There are Level 4 Travel Restrictions with no time frame given
> The EU is Closed (among many other countries/areas)
> California is Closed
> The global economy is in shambles
> The airlines are cutting the number of flights in half or more
> 
> But Disney is:
> 
> Seriously believing that summer 2020 trips are going to happen
> Thinking, "Oh yeah, families with kids are excited for their trips right now"
> Following the standard corporate playbook
> 
> Wow, just wow.


Yep, that looks about right. Don't forget to add that travel shut down to countries they waited until the last minute to cancel trips to (literally while people were already on the ground) despite many phone calls and repeated posts on this board from people with boots on the ground in Europe, etc. 

Not only has ABD not gotten out in front of this as should be expected from a luxury travel company that flouts its alleged fantastic customer service, it has put its customers in horrible positions and is lagging in response compared to other companies. Believe me, if I had flown all the way to Australia or London to join those two trips, I would have been irate. I would have actually gone to the media.


----------



## E-Ticket

acndis said:


> It's killing me.  It really is.  They need to come up with a solution to these summer trips in the next few days.  My enthusiasm for ABD has been waning.  We got pulled back in with a great Egypt itinerary but now that we have my 77 year old dad booked on the trip with no sign of a good decision by Disney, I think I am out unless they really come through soon.  Coming through means allowing us to cancel with refunds since we will not be able to fly to Egypt this summer.  All itineraries go through Europe and the virus will likely (though I really hope not) be in full swing in Africa/Middle East by that time.


Acndis - I feel for you. Your situation is heartbreaking. Obviously, your number one concern is for the safety and comfort of you dad. And if you called ADB and told them your story they will undoubtedly just spout the company line. That's what happened to us anyway. That felt good. 

Disney are you reading this? Are you seeing the binds you are putting us in? We're some of your biggest fans and we are not happy. Do you care? If it truly is just a financial calculation, you better put a large number in your formula to account for loss of future revenue. And I'm telling you, no amount of pixie dust is going to fix the damage to your brand.


----------



## sayhello

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> They should have cancelled before that announcement! Brutal that they didn’t tell you first and you had to read it yourself. Who they heck is running the show and making these horrible CS decisions? Get rid of them.
> But I’m so sorry that your vacation has gotten caught up in all of this


Thanks.    I figured it was pretty inevitable that this would happen, but I'm really sad to not be going, and not to be traveling with Mr & Mrs Grifdog.  My brain is still in "oh, note that down for when I'm preparing to go to France" mode.  Hopefully that lets go soon.


E-Ticket said:


> Let me get this straight.
> 
> People are dying
> People are scared
> There are Level 4 Travel Restrictions with no time frame given
> The EU is Closed (among many other countries/areas)
> California is Closed
> The global economy is in shambles
> The airlines are cutting the number of flights in half or more
> But Disney is:
> 
> Seriously believing that summer 2020 trips are going to happen
> Thinking, "Oh yeah, families with kids are excited for their trips right now"
> Following the standard corporate playbook
> Wow, just wow.


That just about sums it up.  Yep.   


CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> Yep, that looks about right. Don't forget to add that travel shut down to countries they waited until the last minute to cancel trips to (literally while people were already on the ground) despite many phone calls and repeated posts on this board from people with boots on the ground in Europe, etc.
> 
> Not only has ABD not gotten out in front of this as should be expected from a luxury travel company that flouts its alleged fantastic customer service, it has put its customers in horrible positions and is lagging in response compared to other companies. Believe me, if I had flown all the way to Australia or London to join those two trips, I would have been irate. I would have actually gone to the media.


This.  Seriously.  And the going to the media thing is such a good idea.


E-Ticket said:


> Acndis - I feel for you. Your situation is heartbreaking. Obviously, your number one concern is for the safety and comfort of you dad. And if you called ADB and told them your story they will undoubtedly just spout the company line. That's what happened to us anyway. That felt good.
> 
> Disney are you reading this? Are you seeing the binds you are putting us in? We're some of your biggest fans and we are not happy. Do you care? If it truly is just a financial calculation, you better put a large number in your formula to account for loss of future revenue. And I'm telling you, no amount of pixie dust is going to fix the damage to your brand.


Yep.  Very much this!

Sayhello


----------



## DisneyWishes14

sayhello said:


> So AmaWaterways has suspended their river cruise operations through May 31 as of 10pm last night.  I'm pretty sure that means ABD is going to have to cancel my ABD river cruise.  No ship, no cruise (my Rhone cruise starts [started] May 14).
> 
> https://www.amawaterways.com/travel-updates
> 
> I wonder how long it will take ABD to cancel?
> 
> Sayhello



I was looking through my Rhine ABD travel agreement and I really hope they aren't going to try to invoke this:

􏰸􏰑􏰸􏰺􏰶􏰖􏰩􏰖􏰽*ITINERARY CHANGES AND CANCELLATION BY US*: We will make every reasonable effort to operate the vacations as advertised; however, we and tour operator reserve the right to curtail or modify the itinerary, or to substitute activities, hotels, meals or transportation as we deem necessary. Please also note that during certain holidays and peak periods or due to repairs or renovations, some activities may be disrupted or unavailable. *Deviations from planned vacation package itineraries or any aspects of the travel may occur. If for river cruise packages conditions make cruise routes unsafe for navigation or in other respects, or raise sufficient doubt about safety, we and tour operator reserve the right to modify or provide alternate services, which may include, but are not limited to, providing accommodation on the docked ship or on land and/or substituting ground arrangements for river cruise transportation*. None of these modifications or changes shall affect the vacation package price or entitle you to any credit or refund.
􏰸􏰑􏰸􏰺􏰶􏰖􏰩􏰖􏰽 􏰗􏱈􏰩􏰺􏰻􏰶􏰷 􏰩􏰺􏰬 􏰗􏰩􏰺􏰗􏰶􏰠􏰠􏰩􏰑􏰸􏰹􏰺 􏰱􏰽 􏰼􏰷􏰥 􏰲􏰔 􏰢􏰈􏰊􏰊 􏰙􏰆􏱁􏰔 􏰔􏰓􏰔􏰒􏰫 􏰒􏰔􏰆􏰐􏰎􏰏􏰆􏰡􏰊􏰔 􏰔􏰚􏰚􏰎􏰒􏰍 􏰍􏰎 􏰎􏰤􏰔􏰒􏰆􏰍􏰔 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰓􏰆􏰉􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰐 􏰆􏰐 􏰆􏰪􏰓􏰔􏰒􏰍􏰈􏰐􏰔􏰪􏱖 􏰟􏰎􏰢􏰔􏰓􏰔􏰒􏰳 􏰢􏰔 􏰆􏰏􏰪 􏰍􏰎􏰧􏰒 􏰎􏰤􏰔􏰒􏰆􏰍􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰔􏰐􏰔􏰒􏰓􏰔 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰒􏰈􏰇􏰟􏰍 􏰍􏰎 􏰉􏰧􏰒􏰍􏰆􏰈􏰊 􏰎􏰒 􏰙􏰎􏰪􏰈􏰚􏰫 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰈􏰍􏰈􏰏􏰔􏰒􏰆􏰒􏰫􏰳 􏰎􏰒 􏰍􏰎 􏰐􏰧􏰡􏰐􏰍􏰈􏰍􏰧􏰍􏰔 􏰆􏰉􏰍􏰈􏰓􏰈􏰍􏰈􏰔􏰐􏰳 􏰟􏰎􏰍􏰔􏰊􏰐􏰳 􏰙􏰔􏰆􏰊􏰐 􏰎􏰒 􏰍􏰒􏰆􏰏􏰐􏰤􏰎􏰒􏰍􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏 􏰆􏰐 􏰢􏰔 􏰪􏰔􏰔􏰙 􏰏􏰔􏰉􏰔􏰐􏰐􏰆􏰒􏰫􏰦 􏰵􏰊􏰔􏰆􏰐􏰔 􏰆􏰊􏰐􏰎 􏰏􏰎􏰍􏰔 􏰍􏰟􏰆􏰍 􏰪􏰧􏰒􏰈􏰏􏰇 􏰉􏰔􏰒􏰍􏰆􏰈􏰏 􏰟􏰎􏰊􏰈􏰪􏰆􏰫􏰐 􏰆􏰏􏰪 􏰤􏰔􏰆􏱁 􏰤􏰔􏰒􏰈􏰎􏰪􏰐 􏰎􏰒 􏰪􏰧􏰔 􏰍􏰎 􏰒􏰔􏰤􏰆􏰈􏰒􏰐 􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰔􏰏􏰎􏰓􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰐􏰳 􏰐􏰎􏰙􏰔 􏰆􏰉􏰍􏰈􏰓􏰈􏰍􏰈􏰔􏰐 􏰙􏰆􏰫 􏰡􏰔 􏰪􏰈􏰐􏰒􏰧􏰤􏰍􏰔􏰪 􏰎􏰒 􏰧􏰏􏰆􏰓􏰆􏰈􏰊􏰆􏰡􏰊􏰔􏰦 􏰬􏰔􏰓􏰈􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰐 􏰚􏰒􏰎􏰙 􏰤􏰊􏰆􏰏􏰏􏰔􏰪 􏰓􏰆􏰉􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏 􏰤􏰆􏰉􏱁􏰆􏰇􏰔 􏰈􏰍􏰈􏰏􏰔􏰒􏰆􏰒􏰈􏰔􏰐 􏰎􏰒 􏰆􏰏􏰫 􏰆􏰐􏰤􏰔􏰉􏰍􏰐 􏰎􏰚 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰍􏰒􏰆􏰓􏰔􏰊 􏰙􏰆􏰫 􏰎􏰉􏰉􏰧􏰒􏰦 􏰸􏰚 􏰚􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰈􏰓􏰔􏰒 􏰉􏰒􏰧􏰈􏰐􏰔 􏰤􏰆􏰉􏱁􏰆􏰇􏰔􏰐 􏰉􏰎􏰏􏰪􏰈􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰐 􏰙􏰆􏱁􏰔 􏰉􏰒􏰧􏰈􏰐􏰔 􏰒􏰎􏰧􏰍􏰔􏰐 􏰧􏰏􏰐􏰆􏰚􏰔 􏰚􏰎􏰒 􏰏􏰆􏰓􏰈􏰇􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏 􏰎􏰒 􏰈􏰏 􏰎􏰍􏰟􏰔􏰒 􏰒􏰔􏰐􏰤􏰔􏰉􏰍􏰐􏰳 􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰆􏰈􏰐􏰔 􏰐􏰧􏰚􏰚􏰈􏰉􏰈􏰔􏰏􏰍 􏰪􏰎􏰧􏰡􏰍 􏰆􏰡􏰎􏰧􏰍 􏰐􏰆􏰚􏰔􏰍􏰫􏰳 􏰢􏰔 􏰆􏰏􏰪 􏰍􏰎􏰧􏰒 􏰎􏰤􏰔􏰒􏰆􏰍􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰔􏰐􏰔􏰒􏰓􏰔 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰒􏰈􏰇􏰟􏰍 􏰍􏰎 􏰙􏰎􏰪􏰈􏰚􏰫 􏰎􏰒 􏰤􏰒􏰎􏰓􏰈􏰪􏰔 􏰆􏰊􏰍􏰔􏰒􏰏􏰆􏰍􏰔 􏰐􏰔􏰒􏰓􏰈􏰉􏰔􏰐􏰳 􏰢􏰟􏰈􏰉􏰟 􏰙􏰆􏰫 􏰈􏰏􏰉􏰊􏰧􏰪􏰔􏰳 􏰡􏰧􏰍 􏰆􏰒􏰔 􏰏􏰎􏰍 􏰊􏰈􏰙􏰈􏰍􏰔􏰪 􏰍􏰎􏰳 􏰤􏰒􏰎􏰓􏰈􏰪􏰈􏰏􏰇 􏰆􏰉􏰉􏰎􏰙􏰙􏰎􏰪􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏 􏰎􏰏 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰪􏰎􏰉􏱁􏰔􏰪 􏰐􏰟􏰈􏰤 􏰎􏰒 􏰎􏰏 􏰊􏰆􏰏􏰪 􏰆􏰏􏰪􏰁􏰎􏰒 􏰐􏰧􏰡􏰐􏰍􏰈􏰍􏰧􏰍􏰈􏰏􏰇 􏰇􏰒􏰎􏰧􏰏􏰪 􏰆􏰒􏰒􏰆􏰏􏰇􏰔􏰙􏰔􏰏􏰍􏰐 􏰚􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰈􏰓􏰔􏰒 􏰉􏰒􏰧􏰈􏰐􏰔 􏰍􏰒􏰆􏰏􏰐􏰤􏰎􏰒􏰍􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰦 􏰺􏰎􏰏􏰔 􏰎􏰚 􏰍􏰟􏰔􏰐􏰔 􏰙􏰎􏰪􏰈􏰚􏰈􏰉􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰐 􏰎􏰒 􏰉􏰟􏰆􏰏􏰇􏰔􏰐 􏰐􏰟􏰆􏰊􏰊 􏰆􏰚􏰚􏰔􏰉􏰍 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰓􏰆􏰉􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏 􏰤􏰆􏰉􏱁􏰆􏰇􏰔 􏰤􏰒􏰈􏰉􏰔 􏰎􏰒 􏰔􏰏􏰍􏰈􏰍􏰊􏰔 􏰫􏰎􏰧 􏰍􏰎 􏰆􏰏􏰫 􏰉􏰒􏰔􏰪􏰈􏰍 􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰔􏰚􏰧􏰏􏰪􏰦
􏰗􏱈􏰩􏰺􏰻􏰶􏰷 􏰩􏰺􏰬 􏰗􏰩􏰺􏰗􏰶􏰠􏰠􏰩􏰑􏰸􏰹􏰺 􏰱􏰽 􏰼􏰷􏰥 􏰲􏰔 􏰢􏰈􏰊􏰊 􏰙􏰆􏱁􏰔 􏰔􏰓􏰔􏰒􏰫 􏰒􏰔􏰆􏰐􏰎􏰏􏰆􏰡􏰊􏰔 􏰔􏰚􏰚􏰎􏰒􏰍 􏰍􏰎 􏰎􏰤􏰔􏰒􏰆􏰍􏰔 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰓􏰆􏰉􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰐 􏰆􏰐 􏰆􏰪􏰓􏰔􏰒􏰍􏰈􏰐􏰔􏰪􏱖 􏰟􏰎􏰢􏰔􏰓􏰔􏰒􏰳 􏰢􏰔 􏰆􏰏􏰪 􏰍􏰎􏰧􏰒 􏰎􏰤􏰔􏰒􏰆􏰍􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰔􏰐􏰔􏰒􏰓􏰔 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰒􏰈􏰇􏰟􏰍 􏰍􏰎 􏰉􏰧􏰒􏰍􏰆􏰈􏰊 􏰎􏰒 􏰙􏰎􏰪􏰈􏰚􏰫 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰈􏰍􏰈􏰏􏰔􏰒􏰆􏰒􏰫􏰳 􏰎􏰒 􏰍􏰎 􏰐􏰧􏰡􏰐􏰍􏰈􏰍􏰧􏰍􏰔 􏰆􏰉􏰍􏰈􏰓􏰈􏰍􏰈􏰔􏰐􏰳 􏰟􏰎􏰍􏰔􏰊􏰐􏰳 􏰙􏰔􏰆􏰊􏰐 􏰎􏰒 􏰍􏰒􏰆􏰏􏰐􏰤􏰎􏰒􏰍􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏 􏰆􏰐 􏰢􏰔 􏰪􏰔􏰔􏰙 􏰏􏰔􏰉􏰔􏰐􏰐􏰆􏰒􏰫􏰦 􏰵􏰊􏰔􏰆􏰐􏰔 􏰆􏰊􏰐􏰎 􏰏􏰎􏰍􏰔 􏰍􏰟􏰆􏰍 􏰪􏰧􏰒􏰈􏰏􏰇 􏰉􏰔􏰒􏰍􏰆􏰈􏰏 􏰟􏰎􏰊􏰈􏰪􏰆􏰫􏰐 􏰆􏰏􏰪 􏰤􏰔􏰆􏱁 􏰤􏰔􏰒􏰈􏰎􏰪􏰐 􏰎􏰒 􏰪􏰧􏰔 􏰍􏰎 􏰒􏰔􏰤􏰆􏰈􏰒􏰐 􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰔􏰏􏰎􏰓􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰐􏰳 􏰐􏰎􏰙􏰔 􏰆􏰉􏰍􏰈􏰓􏰈􏰍􏰈􏰔􏰐 􏰙􏰆􏰫 􏰡􏰔 􏰪􏰈􏰐􏰒􏰧􏰤􏰍􏰔􏰪 􏰎􏰒 􏰧􏰏􏰆􏰓􏰆􏰈􏰊􏰆􏰡􏰊􏰔􏰦 􏰬􏰔􏰓􏰈􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰐 􏰚􏰒􏰎􏰙 􏰤􏰊􏰆􏰏􏰏􏰔􏰪 􏰓􏰆􏰉􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏 􏰤􏰆􏰉􏱁􏰆􏰇􏰔 􏰈􏰍􏰈􏰏􏰔􏰒􏰆􏰒􏰈􏰔􏰐 􏰎􏰒 􏰆􏰏􏰫 􏰆􏰐􏰤􏰔􏰉􏰍􏰐 􏰎􏰚 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰍􏰒􏰆􏰓􏰔􏰊 􏰙􏰆􏰫 􏰎􏰉􏰉􏰧􏰒􏰦 􏰸􏰚 􏰚􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰈􏰓􏰔􏰒 􏰉􏰒􏰧􏰈􏰐􏰔 􏰤􏰆􏰉􏱁􏰆􏰇􏰔􏰐 􏰉􏰎􏰏􏰪􏰈􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰐 􏰙􏰆􏱁􏰔 􏰉􏰒􏰧􏰈􏰐􏰔 􏰒􏰎􏰧􏰍􏰔􏰐 􏰧􏰏􏰐􏰆􏰚􏰔 􏰚􏰎􏰒 􏰏􏰆􏰓􏰈􏰇􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏 􏰎􏰒 􏰈􏰏 􏰎􏰍􏰟􏰔􏰒 􏰒􏰔􏰐􏰤􏰔􏰉􏰍􏰐􏰳 􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰆􏰈􏰐􏰔 􏰐􏰧􏰚􏰚􏰈􏰉􏰈􏰔􏰏􏰍 􏰪􏰎􏰧􏰡􏰍 􏰆􏰡􏰎􏰧􏰍 􏰐􏰆􏰚􏰔􏰍􏰫􏰳 􏰢􏰔 􏰆􏰏􏰪 􏰍􏰎􏰧􏰒 􏰎􏰤􏰔􏰒􏰆􏰍􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰔􏰐􏰔􏰒􏰓􏰔 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰒􏰈􏰇􏰟􏰍 􏰍􏰎 􏰙􏰎􏰪􏰈􏰚􏰫 􏰎􏰒 􏰤􏰒􏰎􏰓􏰈􏰪􏰔 􏰆􏰊􏰍􏰔􏰒􏰏􏰆􏰍􏰔 􏰐􏰔􏰒􏰓􏰈􏰉􏰔􏰐􏰳 􏰢􏰟􏰈􏰉􏰟 􏰙􏰆􏰫 􏰈􏰏􏰉􏰊􏰧􏰪􏰔􏰳 􏰡􏰧􏰍 􏰆􏰒􏰔 􏰏􏰎􏰍 􏰊􏰈􏰙􏰈􏰍􏰔􏰪 􏰍􏰎􏰳 􏰤􏰒􏰎􏰓􏰈􏰪􏰈􏰏􏰇 􏰆􏰉􏰉􏰎􏰙􏰙􏰎􏰪􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏 􏰎􏰏 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰪􏰎􏰉􏱁􏰔􏰪 􏰐􏰟􏰈􏰤 􏰎􏰒 􏰎􏰏 􏰊􏰆􏰏􏰪 􏰆􏰏􏰪􏰁􏰎􏰒 􏰐􏰧􏰡􏰐􏰍􏰈􏰍􏰧􏰍􏰈􏰏􏰇 􏰇􏰒􏰎􏰧􏰏􏰪 􏰆􏰒􏰒􏰆􏰏􏰇􏰔􏰙􏰔􏰏􏰍􏰐 􏰚􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰈􏰓􏰔􏰒 􏰉􏰒􏰧􏰈􏰐􏰔 􏰍􏰒􏰆􏰏􏰐􏰤􏰎􏰒􏰍􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰦 􏰺􏰎􏰏􏰔 􏰎􏰚 􏰍􏰟􏰔􏰐􏰔 􏰙􏰎􏰪􏰈􏰚􏰈􏰉􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰐 􏰎􏰒 􏰉􏰟􏰆􏰏􏰇􏰔􏰐 􏰐􏰟􏰆􏰊􏰊 􏰆􏰚􏰚􏰔􏰉􏰍 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰓􏰆􏰉􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏 􏰤􏰆􏰉􏱁􏰆􏰇􏰔 􏰤􏰒􏰈􏰉􏰔 􏰎􏰒 􏰔􏰏􏰍􏰈􏰍􏰊􏰔 􏰫􏰎􏰧 􏰍􏰎 􏰆􏰏􏰫 􏰉􏰒􏰔􏰪􏰈􏰍 􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰔􏰚􏰧􏰏􏰪􏰦

􏰸􏰑􏰸􏰺􏰶􏰖􏰩􏰖􏰽 􏰗􏱈􏰩􏰺􏰻􏰶􏰷 􏰩􏰺􏰬 􏰗􏰩􏰺􏰗􏰶􏰠􏰠􏰩􏰑􏰸􏰹􏰺 􏰱􏰽 􏰼􏰷􏰥 􏰲􏰔 􏰢􏰈􏰊􏰊 􏰙􏰆􏱁􏰔 􏰔􏰓􏰔􏰒􏰫 􏰒􏰔􏰆􏰐􏰎􏰏􏰆􏰡􏰊􏰔 􏰔􏰚􏰚􏰎􏰒􏰍 􏰍􏰎 􏰎􏰤􏰔􏰒􏰆􏰍􏰔 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰓􏰆􏰉􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰐 􏰆􏰐 􏰆􏰪􏰓􏰔􏰒􏰍􏰈􏰐􏰔􏰪􏱖 􏰟􏰎􏰢􏰔􏰓􏰔􏰒􏰳 􏰢􏰔 􏰆􏰏􏰪 􏰍􏰎􏰧􏰒 􏰎􏰤􏰔􏰒􏰆􏰍􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰔􏰐􏰔􏰒􏰓􏰔 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰒􏰈􏰇􏰟􏰍 􏰍􏰎 􏰉􏰧􏰒􏰍􏰆􏰈􏰊 􏰎􏰒 􏰙􏰎􏰪􏰈􏰚􏰫 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰈􏰍􏰈􏰏􏰔􏰒􏰆􏰒􏰫􏰳 􏰎􏰒 􏰍􏰎 􏰐􏰧􏰡􏰐􏰍􏰈􏰍􏰧􏰍􏰔 􏰆􏰉􏰍􏰈􏰓􏰈􏰍􏰈􏰔􏰐􏰳 􏰟􏰎􏰍􏰔􏰊􏰐􏰳 􏰙􏰔􏰆􏰊􏰐 􏰎􏰒 􏰍􏰒􏰆􏰏􏰐􏰤􏰎􏰒􏰍􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏 􏰆􏰐 􏰢􏰔 􏰪􏰔􏰔􏰙 􏰏􏰔􏰉􏰔􏰐􏰐􏰆􏰒􏰫􏰦 􏰵􏰊􏰔􏰆􏰐􏰔 􏰆􏰊􏰐􏰎 􏰏􏰎􏰍􏰔 􏰍􏰟􏰆􏰍 􏰪􏰧􏰒􏰈􏰏􏰇 􏰉􏰔􏰒􏰍􏰆􏰈􏰏 􏰟􏰎􏰊􏰈􏰪􏰆􏰫􏰐 􏰆􏰏􏰪 􏰤􏰔􏰆􏱁 􏰤􏰔􏰒􏰈􏰎􏰪􏰐 􏰎􏰒 􏰪􏰧􏰔 􏰍􏰎 􏰒􏰔􏰤􏰆􏰈􏰒􏰐 􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰔􏰏􏰎􏰓􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰐􏰳 􏰐􏰎􏰙􏰔 􏰆􏰉􏰍􏰈􏰓􏰈􏰍􏰈􏰔􏰐 􏰙􏰆􏰫 􏰡􏰔 􏰪􏰈􏰐􏰒􏰧􏰤􏰍􏰔􏰪 􏰎􏰒 􏰧􏰏􏰆􏰓􏰆􏰈􏰊􏰆􏰡􏰊􏰔􏰦 􏰬􏰔􏰓􏰈􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰐 􏰚􏰒􏰎􏰙 􏰤􏰊􏰆􏰏􏰏􏰔􏰪 􏰓􏰆􏰉􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏 􏰤􏰆􏰉􏱁􏰆􏰇􏰔 􏰈􏰍􏰈􏰏􏰔􏰒􏰆􏰒􏰈􏰔􏰐 􏰎􏰒 􏰆􏰏􏰫 􏰆􏰐􏰤􏰔􏰉􏰍􏰐 􏰎􏰚 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰍􏰒􏰆􏰓􏰔􏰊 􏰙􏰆􏰫 􏰎􏰉􏰉􏰧􏰒􏰦 􏰸􏰚 􏰚􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰈􏰓􏰔􏰒 􏰉􏰒􏰧􏰈􏰐􏰔 􏰤􏰆􏰉􏱁􏰆􏰇􏰔􏰐 􏰉􏰎􏰏􏰪􏰈􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰐 􏰙􏰆􏱁􏰔 􏰉􏰒􏰧􏰈􏰐􏰔 􏰒􏰎􏰧􏰍􏰔􏰐 􏰧􏰏􏰐􏰆􏰚􏰔 􏰚􏰎􏰒 􏰏􏰆􏰓􏰈􏰇􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏 􏰎􏰒 􏰈􏰏 􏰎􏰍􏰟􏰔􏰒 􏰒􏰔􏰐􏰤􏰔􏰉􏰍􏰐􏰳 􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰆􏰈􏰐􏰔 􏰐􏰧􏰚􏰚􏰈􏰉􏰈􏰔􏰏􏰍 􏰪􏰎􏰧􏰡􏰍 􏰆􏰡􏰎􏰧􏰍 􏰐􏰆􏰚􏰔􏰍􏰫􏰳 􏰢􏰔 􏰆􏰏􏰪 􏰍􏰎􏰧􏰒 􏰎􏰤􏰔􏰒􏰆􏰍􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰔􏰐􏰔􏰒􏰓􏰔 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰒􏰈􏰇􏰟􏰍 􏰍􏰎 􏰙􏰎􏰪􏰈􏰚􏰫 􏰎􏰒 􏰤􏰒􏰎􏰓􏰈􏰪􏰔 􏰆􏰊􏰍􏰔􏰒􏰏􏰆􏰍􏰔 􏰐􏰔􏰒􏰓􏰈􏰉􏰔􏰐􏰳 􏰢􏰟􏰈􏰉􏰟 􏰙􏰆􏰫 􏰈􏰏􏰉􏰊􏰧􏰪􏰔􏰳 􏰡􏰧􏰍 􏰆􏰒􏰔 􏰏􏰎􏰍 􏰊􏰈􏰙􏰈􏰍􏰔􏰪 􏰍􏰎􏰳 􏰤􏰒􏰎􏰓􏰈􏰪􏰈􏰏􏰇 􏰆􏰉􏰉􏰎􏰙􏰙􏰎􏰪􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏 􏰎􏰏 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰪􏰎􏰉􏱁􏰔􏰪 􏰐􏰟􏰈􏰤 􏰎􏰒 􏰎􏰏 􏰊􏰆􏰏􏰪 􏰆􏰏􏰪􏰁􏰎􏰒 􏰐􏰧􏰡􏰐􏰍􏰈􏰍􏰧􏰍􏰈􏰏􏰇 􏰇􏰒􏰎􏰧􏰏􏰪 􏰆􏰒􏰒􏰆􏰏􏰇􏰔􏰙􏰔􏰏􏰍􏰐 􏰚􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰈􏰓􏰔􏰒 􏰉􏰒􏰧􏰈􏰐􏰔 􏰍􏰒􏰆􏰏􏰐􏰤􏰎􏰒􏰍􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰦 􏰺􏰎􏰏􏰔 􏰎􏰚 􏰍􏰟􏰔􏰐􏰔 􏰙􏰎􏰪􏰈􏰚􏰈􏰉􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰐 􏰎􏰒 􏰉􏰟􏰆􏰏􏰇􏰔􏰐 􏰐􏰟􏰆􏰊􏰊 􏰆􏰚􏰚􏰔􏰉􏰍 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰓􏰆􏰉􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏 􏰤􏰆􏰉􏱁􏰆􏰇􏰔 􏰤􏰒􏰈􏰉􏰔 􏰎􏰒 􏰔􏰏􏰍􏰈􏰍􏰊􏰔 􏰫􏰎􏰧 􏰍􏰎 􏰆􏰏􏰫 􏰉􏰒􏰔􏰪􏰈􏰍 􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰔􏰚􏰧􏰏􏰪􏰦


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## kaseyC

I haven't posted much in this thread but have been following.  I'm just stunned at ABD's lack of response and flexibility in this situation.   Considering they are a luxury travel company plus the high price point of these trips makes their response totally unacceptable.  We have a September Rhine cruise booked with final payment in May.  It's September 6th so we just miss the final payment extension.  I'm wary of making final payment but will have no other choice but to go ahead with it or lose my deposit.  I can't park it because I used my one opportunity to move it when I moved this deposit from an Egypt trip to the Rhine.  I'm at a low level of trust with ABD at this time and it sucks.


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## sayhello

DisneyWishes14 said:


> I was looking through my Rhine ABD travel agreement and I really hope they aren't going to try to invoke this:
> 
> *ITINERARY CHANGES AND CANCELLATION BY US*: We will make every reasonable effort to operate the vacations as advertised; however, we and tour operator reserve the right to curtail or modify the itinerary, or to substitute activities, hotels, meals or transportation as we deem necessary. Please also note that during certain holidays and peak periods or due to repairs or renovations, some activities may be disrupted or unavailable. *Deviations from planned vacation package itineraries or any aspects of the travel may occur. If for river cruise packages conditions make cruise routes unsafe for navigation or in other respects, or raise sufficient doubt about safety, we and tour operator reserve the right to modify or provide alternate services, which may include, but are not limited to, providing accommodation on the docked ship or on land and/or substituting ground arrangements for river cruise transportation*. None of these modifications or changes shall affect the vacation package price or entitle you to any credit or refund.


They really had better not.  They'd have to go to a lot of trouble and expense to find hotels in each of our stops to replace the ship.  This clause is mostly to cover them for times when the river is too low for the ship to actually sail to all the ports.

Sayhello


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## kaseyC

DisneyWishes14 said:


> I was looking through my Rhine ABD travel agreement and I really hope they aren't going to try to invoke this:
> 
> 􏰸􏰑􏰸􏰺􏰶􏰖􏰩􏰖􏰽*ITINERARY CHANGES AND CANCELLATION BY US*: We will make every reasonable effort to operate the vacations as advertised; however, we and tour operator reserve the right to curtail or modify the itinerary, or to substitute activities, hotels, meals or transportation as we deem necessary. Please also note that during certain holidays and peak periods or due to repairs or renovations, some activities may be disrupted or unavailable. *Deviations from planned vacation package itineraries or any aspects of the travel may occur. If for river cruise packages conditions make cruise routes unsafe for navigation or in other respects, or raise sufficient doubt about safety, we and tour operator reserve the right to modify or provide alternate services, which may include, but are not limited to, providing accommodation on the docked ship or on land and/or substituting ground arrangements for river cruise transportation*. None of these modifications or changes shall affect the vacation package price or entitle you to any credit or refund.
> 􏰸􏰑􏰸􏰺􏰶􏰖􏰩􏰖􏰽 􏰗􏱈􏰩􏰺􏰻􏰶􏰷 􏰩􏰺􏰬 􏰗􏰩􏰺􏰗􏰶􏰠􏰠􏰩􏰑􏰸􏰹􏰺 􏰱􏰽 􏰼􏰷􏰥 􏰲􏰔 􏰢􏰈􏰊􏰊 􏰙􏰆􏱁􏰔 􏰔􏰓􏰔􏰒􏰫 􏰒􏰔􏰆􏰐􏰎􏰏􏰆􏰡􏰊􏰔 􏰔􏰚􏰚􏰎􏰒􏰍 􏰍􏰎 􏰎􏰤􏰔􏰒􏰆􏰍􏰔 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰓􏰆􏰉􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰐 􏰆􏰐 􏰆􏰪􏰓􏰔􏰒􏰍􏰈􏰐􏰔􏰪􏱖 􏰟􏰎􏰢􏰔􏰓􏰔􏰒􏰳 􏰢􏰔 􏰆􏰏􏰪 􏰍􏰎􏰧􏰒 􏰎􏰤􏰔􏰒􏰆􏰍􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰔􏰐􏰔􏰒􏰓􏰔 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰒􏰈􏰇􏰟􏰍 􏰍􏰎 􏰉􏰧􏰒􏰍􏰆􏰈􏰊 􏰎􏰒 􏰙􏰎􏰪􏰈􏰚􏰫 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰈􏰍􏰈􏰏􏰔􏰒􏰆􏰒􏰫􏰳 􏰎􏰒 􏰍􏰎 􏰐􏰧􏰡􏰐􏰍􏰈􏰍􏰧􏰍􏰔 􏰆􏰉􏰍􏰈􏰓􏰈􏰍􏰈􏰔􏰐􏰳 􏰟􏰎􏰍􏰔􏰊􏰐􏰳 􏰙􏰔􏰆􏰊􏰐 􏰎􏰒 􏰍􏰒􏰆􏰏􏰐􏰤􏰎􏰒􏰍􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏 􏰆􏰐 􏰢􏰔 􏰪􏰔􏰔􏰙 􏰏􏰔􏰉􏰔􏰐􏰐􏰆􏰒􏰫􏰦 􏰵􏰊􏰔􏰆􏰐􏰔 􏰆􏰊􏰐􏰎 􏰏􏰎􏰍􏰔 􏰍􏰟􏰆􏰍 􏰪􏰧􏰒􏰈􏰏􏰇 􏰉􏰔􏰒􏰍􏰆􏰈􏰏 􏰟􏰎􏰊􏰈􏰪􏰆􏰫􏰐 􏰆􏰏􏰪 􏰤􏰔􏰆􏱁 􏰤􏰔􏰒􏰈􏰎􏰪􏰐 􏰎􏰒 􏰪􏰧􏰔 􏰍􏰎 􏰒􏰔􏰤􏰆􏰈􏰒􏰐 􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰔􏰏􏰎􏰓􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰐􏰳 􏰐􏰎􏰙􏰔 􏰆􏰉􏰍􏰈􏰓􏰈􏰍􏰈􏰔􏰐 􏰙􏰆􏰫 􏰡􏰔 􏰪􏰈􏰐􏰒􏰧􏰤􏰍􏰔􏰪 􏰎􏰒 􏰧􏰏􏰆􏰓􏰆􏰈􏰊􏰆􏰡􏰊􏰔􏰦 􏰬􏰔􏰓􏰈􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰐 􏰚􏰒􏰎􏰙 􏰤􏰊􏰆􏰏􏰏􏰔􏰪 􏰓􏰆􏰉􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏 􏰤􏰆􏰉􏱁􏰆􏰇􏰔 􏰈􏰍􏰈􏰏􏰔􏰒􏰆􏰒􏰈􏰔􏰐 􏰎􏰒 􏰆􏰏􏰫 􏰆􏰐􏰤􏰔􏰉􏰍􏰐 􏰎􏰚 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰍􏰒􏰆􏰓􏰔􏰊 􏰙􏰆􏰫 􏰎􏰉􏰉􏰧􏰒􏰦 􏰸􏰚 􏰚􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰈􏰓􏰔􏰒 􏰉􏰒􏰧􏰈􏰐􏰔 􏰤􏰆􏰉􏱁􏰆􏰇􏰔􏰐 􏰉􏰎􏰏􏰪􏰈􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰐 􏰙􏰆􏱁􏰔 􏰉􏰒􏰧􏰈􏰐􏰔 􏰒􏰎􏰧􏰍􏰔􏰐 􏰧􏰏􏰐􏰆􏰚􏰔 􏰚􏰎􏰒 􏰏􏰆􏰓􏰈􏰇􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏 􏰎􏰒 􏰈􏰏 􏰎􏰍􏰟􏰔􏰒 􏰒􏰔􏰐􏰤􏰔􏰉􏰍􏰐􏰳 􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰆􏰈􏰐􏰔 􏰐􏰧􏰚􏰚􏰈􏰉􏰈􏰔􏰏􏰍 􏰪􏰎􏰧􏰡􏰍 􏰆􏰡􏰎􏰧􏰍 􏰐􏰆􏰚􏰔􏰍􏰫􏰳 􏰢􏰔 􏰆􏰏􏰪 􏰍􏰎􏰧􏰒 􏰎􏰤􏰔􏰒􏰆􏰍􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰔􏰐􏰔􏰒􏰓􏰔 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰒􏰈􏰇􏰟􏰍 􏰍􏰎 􏰙􏰎􏰪􏰈􏰚􏰫 􏰎􏰒 􏰤􏰒􏰎􏰓􏰈􏰪􏰔 􏰆􏰊􏰍􏰔􏰒􏰏􏰆􏰍􏰔 􏰐􏰔􏰒􏰓􏰈􏰉􏰔􏰐􏰳 􏰢􏰟􏰈􏰉􏰟 􏰙􏰆􏰫 􏰈􏰏􏰉􏰊􏰧􏰪􏰔􏰳 􏰡􏰧􏰍 􏰆􏰒􏰔 􏰏􏰎􏰍 􏰊􏰈􏰙􏰈􏰍􏰔􏰪 􏰍􏰎􏰳 􏰤􏰒􏰎􏰓􏰈􏰪􏰈􏰏􏰇 􏰆􏰉􏰉􏰎􏰙􏰙􏰎􏰪􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏 􏰎􏰏 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰪􏰎􏰉􏱁􏰔􏰪 􏰐􏰟􏰈􏰤 􏰎􏰒 􏰎􏰏 􏰊􏰆􏰏􏰪 􏰆􏰏􏰪􏰁􏰎􏰒 􏰐􏰧􏰡􏰐􏰍􏰈􏰍􏰧􏰍􏰈􏰏􏰇 􏰇􏰒􏰎􏰧􏰏􏰪 􏰆􏰒􏰒􏰆􏰏􏰇􏰔􏰙􏰔􏰏􏰍􏰐 􏰚􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰈􏰓􏰔􏰒 􏰉􏰒􏰧􏰈􏰐􏰔 􏰍􏰒􏰆􏰏􏰐􏰤􏰎􏰒􏰍􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰦 􏰺􏰎􏰏􏰔 􏰎􏰚 􏰍􏰟􏰔􏰐􏰔 􏰙􏰎􏰪􏰈􏰚􏰈􏰉􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰐 􏰎􏰒 􏰉􏰟􏰆􏰏􏰇􏰔􏰐 􏰐􏰟􏰆􏰊􏰊 􏰆􏰚􏰚􏰔􏰉􏰍 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰓􏰆􏰉􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏 􏰤􏰆􏰉􏱁􏰆􏰇􏰔 􏰤􏰒􏰈􏰉􏰔 􏰎􏰒 􏰔􏰏􏰍􏰈􏰍􏰊􏰔 􏰫􏰎􏰧 􏰍􏰎 􏰆􏰏􏰫 􏰉􏰒􏰔􏰪􏰈􏰍 􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰔􏰚􏰧􏰏􏰪􏰦
> 􏰗􏱈􏰩􏰺􏰻􏰶􏰷 􏰩􏰺􏰬 􏰗􏰩􏰺􏰗􏰶􏰠􏰠􏰩􏰑􏰸􏰹􏰺 􏰱􏰽 􏰼􏰷􏰥 􏰲􏰔 􏰢􏰈􏰊􏰊 􏰙􏰆􏱁􏰔 􏰔􏰓􏰔􏰒􏰫 􏰒􏰔􏰆􏰐􏰎􏰏􏰆􏰡􏰊􏰔 􏰔􏰚􏰚􏰎􏰒􏰍 􏰍􏰎 􏰎􏰤􏰔􏰒􏰆􏰍􏰔 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰓􏰆􏰉􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰐 􏰆􏰐 􏰆􏰪􏰓􏰔􏰒􏰍􏰈􏰐􏰔􏰪􏱖 􏰟􏰎􏰢􏰔􏰓􏰔􏰒􏰳 􏰢􏰔 􏰆􏰏􏰪 􏰍􏰎􏰧􏰒 􏰎􏰤􏰔􏰒􏰆􏰍􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰔􏰐􏰔􏰒􏰓􏰔 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰒􏰈􏰇􏰟􏰍 􏰍􏰎 􏰉􏰧􏰒􏰍􏰆􏰈􏰊 􏰎􏰒 􏰙􏰎􏰪􏰈􏰚􏰫 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰈􏰍􏰈􏰏􏰔􏰒􏰆􏰒􏰫􏰳 􏰎􏰒 􏰍􏰎 􏰐􏰧􏰡􏰐􏰍􏰈􏰍􏰧􏰍􏰔 􏰆􏰉􏰍􏰈􏰓􏰈􏰍􏰈􏰔􏰐􏰳 􏰟􏰎􏰍􏰔􏰊􏰐􏰳 􏰙􏰔􏰆􏰊􏰐 􏰎􏰒 􏰍􏰒􏰆􏰏􏰐􏰤􏰎􏰒􏰍􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏 􏰆􏰐 􏰢􏰔 􏰪􏰔􏰔􏰙 􏰏􏰔􏰉􏰔􏰐􏰐􏰆􏰒􏰫􏰦 􏰵􏰊􏰔􏰆􏰐􏰔 􏰆􏰊􏰐􏰎 􏰏􏰎􏰍􏰔 􏰍􏰟􏰆􏰍 􏰪􏰧􏰒􏰈􏰏􏰇 􏰉􏰔􏰒􏰍􏰆􏰈􏰏 􏰟􏰎􏰊􏰈􏰪􏰆􏰫􏰐 􏰆􏰏􏰪 􏰤􏰔􏰆􏱁 􏰤􏰔􏰒􏰈􏰎􏰪􏰐 􏰎􏰒 􏰪􏰧􏰔 􏰍􏰎 􏰒􏰔􏰤􏰆􏰈􏰒􏰐 􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰔􏰏􏰎􏰓􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰐􏰳 􏰐􏰎􏰙􏰔 􏰆􏰉􏰍􏰈􏰓􏰈􏰍􏰈􏰔􏰐 􏰙􏰆􏰫 􏰡􏰔 􏰪􏰈􏰐􏰒􏰧􏰤􏰍􏰔􏰪 􏰎􏰒 􏰧􏰏􏰆􏰓􏰆􏰈􏰊􏰆􏰡􏰊􏰔􏰦 􏰬􏰔􏰓􏰈􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰐 􏰚􏰒􏰎􏰙 􏰤􏰊􏰆􏰏􏰏􏰔􏰪 􏰓􏰆􏰉􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏 􏰤􏰆􏰉􏱁􏰆􏰇􏰔 􏰈􏰍􏰈􏰏􏰔􏰒􏰆􏰒􏰈􏰔􏰐 􏰎􏰒 􏰆􏰏􏰫 􏰆􏰐􏰤􏰔􏰉􏰍􏰐 􏰎􏰚 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰍􏰒􏰆􏰓􏰔􏰊 􏰙􏰆􏰫 􏰎􏰉􏰉􏰧􏰒􏰦 􏰸􏰚 􏰚􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰈􏰓􏰔􏰒 􏰉􏰒􏰧􏰈􏰐􏰔 􏰤􏰆􏰉􏱁􏰆􏰇􏰔􏰐 􏰉􏰎􏰏􏰪􏰈􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰐 􏰙􏰆􏱁􏰔 􏰉􏰒􏰧􏰈􏰐􏰔 􏰒􏰎􏰧􏰍􏰔􏰐 􏰧􏰏􏰐􏰆􏰚􏰔 􏰚􏰎􏰒 􏰏􏰆􏰓􏰈􏰇􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏 􏰎􏰒 􏰈􏰏 􏰎􏰍􏰟􏰔􏰒 􏰒􏰔􏰐􏰤􏰔􏰉􏰍􏰐􏰳 􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰆􏰈􏰐􏰔 􏰐􏰧􏰚􏰚􏰈􏰉􏰈􏰔􏰏􏰍 􏰪􏰎􏰧􏰡􏰍 􏰆􏰡􏰎􏰧􏰍 􏰐􏰆􏰚􏰔􏰍􏰫􏰳 􏰢􏰔 􏰆􏰏􏰪 􏰍􏰎􏰧􏰒 􏰎􏰤􏰔􏰒􏰆􏰍􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰔􏰐􏰔􏰒􏰓􏰔 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰒􏰈􏰇􏰟􏰍 􏰍􏰎 􏰙􏰎􏰪􏰈􏰚􏰫 􏰎􏰒 􏰤􏰒􏰎􏰓􏰈􏰪􏰔 􏰆􏰊􏰍􏰔􏰒􏰏􏰆􏰍􏰔 􏰐􏰔􏰒􏰓􏰈􏰉􏰔􏰐􏰳 􏰢􏰟􏰈􏰉􏰟 􏰙􏰆􏰫 􏰈􏰏􏰉􏰊􏰧􏰪􏰔􏰳 􏰡􏰧􏰍 􏰆􏰒􏰔 􏰏􏰎􏰍 􏰊􏰈􏰙􏰈􏰍􏰔􏰪 􏰍􏰎􏰳 􏰤􏰒􏰎􏰓􏰈􏰪􏰈􏰏􏰇 􏰆􏰉􏰉􏰎􏰙􏰙􏰎􏰪􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏 􏰎􏰏 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰪􏰎􏰉􏱁􏰔􏰪 􏰐􏰟􏰈􏰤 􏰎􏰒 􏰎􏰏 􏰊􏰆􏰏􏰪 􏰆􏰏􏰪􏰁􏰎􏰒 􏰐􏰧􏰡􏰐􏰍􏰈􏰍􏰧􏰍􏰈􏰏􏰇 􏰇􏰒􏰎􏰧􏰏􏰪 􏰆􏰒􏰒􏰆􏰏􏰇􏰔􏰙􏰔􏰏􏰍􏰐 􏰚􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰈􏰓􏰔􏰒 􏰉􏰒􏰧􏰈􏰐􏰔 􏰍􏰒􏰆􏰏􏰐􏰤􏰎􏰒􏰍􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰦 􏰺􏰎􏰏􏰔 􏰎􏰚 􏰍􏰟􏰔􏰐􏰔 􏰙􏰎􏰪􏰈􏰚􏰈􏰉􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰐 􏰎􏰒 􏰉􏰟􏰆􏰏􏰇􏰔􏰐 􏰐􏰟􏰆􏰊􏰊 􏰆􏰚􏰚􏰔􏰉􏰍 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰓􏰆􏰉􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏 􏰤􏰆􏰉􏱁􏰆􏰇􏰔 􏰤􏰒􏰈􏰉􏰔 􏰎􏰒 􏰔􏰏􏰍􏰈􏰍􏰊􏰔 􏰫􏰎􏰧 􏰍􏰎 􏰆􏰏􏰫 􏰉􏰒􏰔􏰪􏰈􏰍 􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰔􏰚􏰧􏰏􏰪􏰦
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> 􏰸􏰑􏰸􏰺􏰶􏰖􏰩􏰖􏰽 􏰗􏱈􏰩􏰺􏰻􏰶􏰷 􏰩􏰺􏰬 􏰗􏰩􏰺􏰗􏰶􏰠􏰠􏰩􏰑􏰸􏰹􏰺 􏰱􏰽 􏰼􏰷􏰥 􏰲􏰔 􏰢􏰈􏰊􏰊 􏰙􏰆􏱁􏰔 􏰔􏰓􏰔􏰒􏰫 􏰒􏰔􏰆􏰐􏰎􏰏􏰆􏰡􏰊􏰔 􏰔􏰚􏰚􏰎􏰒􏰍 􏰍􏰎 􏰎􏰤􏰔􏰒􏰆􏰍􏰔 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰓􏰆􏰉􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰐 􏰆􏰐 􏰆􏰪􏰓􏰔􏰒􏰍􏰈􏰐􏰔􏰪􏱖 􏰟􏰎􏰢􏰔􏰓􏰔􏰒􏰳 􏰢􏰔 􏰆􏰏􏰪 􏰍􏰎􏰧􏰒 􏰎􏰤􏰔􏰒􏰆􏰍􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰔􏰐􏰔􏰒􏰓􏰔 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰒􏰈􏰇􏰟􏰍 􏰍􏰎 􏰉􏰧􏰒􏰍􏰆􏰈􏰊 􏰎􏰒 􏰙􏰎􏰪􏰈􏰚􏰫 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰈􏰍􏰈􏰏􏰔􏰒􏰆􏰒􏰫􏰳 􏰎􏰒 􏰍􏰎 􏰐􏰧􏰡􏰐􏰍􏰈􏰍􏰧􏰍􏰔 􏰆􏰉􏰍􏰈􏰓􏰈􏰍􏰈􏰔􏰐􏰳 􏰟􏰎􏰍􏰔􏰊􏰐􏰳 􏰙􏰔􏰆􏰊􏰐 􏰎􏰒 􏰍􏰒􏰆􏰏􏰐􏰤􏰎􏰒􏰍􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏 􏰆􏰐 􏰢􏰔 􏰪􏰔􏰔􏰙 􏰏􏰔􏰉􏰔􏰐􏰐􏰆􏰒􏰫􏰦 􏰵􏰊􏰔􏰆􏰐􏰔 􏰆􏰊􏰐􏰎 􏰏􏰎􏰍􏰔 􏰍􏰟􏰆􏰍 􏰪􏰧􏰒􏰈􏰏􏰇 􏰉􏰔􏰒􏰍􏰆􏰈􏰏 􏰟􏰎􏰊􏰈􏰪􏰆􏰫􏰐 􏰆􏰏􏰪 􏰤􏰔􏰆􏱁 􏰤􏰔􏰒􏰈􏰎􏰪􏰐 􏰎􏰒 􏰪􏰧􏰔 􏰍􏰎 􏰒􏰔􏰤􏰆􏰈􏰒􏰐 􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰔􏰏􏰎􏰓􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰐􏰳 􏰐􏰎􏰙􏰔 􏰆􏰉􏰍􏰈􏰓􏰈􏰍􏰈􏰔􏰐 􏰙􏰆􏰫 􏰡􏰔 􏰪􏰈􏰐􏰒􏰧􏰤􏰍􏰔􏰪 􏰎􏰒 􏰧􏰏􏰆􏰓􏰆􏰈􏰊􏰆􏰡􏰊􏰔􏰦 􏰬􏰔􏰓􏰈􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰐 􏰚􏰒􏰎􏰙 􏰤􏰊􏰆􏰏􏰏􏰔􏰪 􏰓􏰆􏰉􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏 􏰤􏰆􏰉􏱁􏰆􏰇􏰔 􏰈􏰍􏰈􏰏􏰔􏰒􏰆􏰒􏰈􏰔􏰐 􏰎􏰒 􏰆􏰏􏰫 􏰆􏰐􏰤􏰔􏰉􏰍􏰐 􏰎􏰚 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰍􏰒􏰆􏰓􏰔􏰊 􏰙􏰆􏰫 􏰎􏰉􏰉􏰧􏰒􏰦 􏰸􏰚 􏰚􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰈􏰓􏰔􏰒 􏰉􏰒􏰧􏰈􏰐􏰔 􏰤􏰆􏰉􏱁􏰆􏰇􏰔􏰐 􏰉􏰎􏰏􏰪􏰈􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰐 􏰙􏰆􏱁􏰔 􏰉􏰒􏰧􏰈􏰐􏰔 􏰒􏰎􏰧􏰍􏰔􏰐 􏰧􏰏􏰐􏰆􏰚􏰔 􏰚􏰎􏰒 􏰏􏰆􏰓􏰈􏰇􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏 􏰎􏰒 􏰈􏰏 􏰎􏰍􏰟􏰔􏰒 􏰒􏰔􏰐􏰤􏰔􏰉􏰍􏰐􏰳 􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰆􏰈􏰐􏰔 􏰐􏰧􏰚􏰚􏰈􏰉􏰈􏰔􏰏􏰍 􏰪􏰎􏰧􏰡􏰍 􏰆􏰡􏰎􏰧􏰍 􏰐􏰆􏰚􏰔􏰍􏰫􏰳 􏰢􏰔 􏰆􏰏􏰪 􏰍􏰎􏰧􏰒 􏰎􏰤􏰔􏰒􏰆􏰍􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰔􏰐􏰔􏰒􏰓􏰔 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰒􏰈􏰇􏰟􏰍 􏰍􏰎 􏰙􏰎􏰪􏰈􏰚􏰫 􏰎􏰒 􏰤􏰒􏰎􏰓􏰈􏰪􏰔 􏰆􏰊􏰍􏰔􏰒􏰏􏰆􏰍􏰔 􏰐􏰔􏰒􏰓􏰈􏰉􏰔􏰐􏰳 􏰢􏰟􏰈􏰉􏰟 􏰙􏰆􏰫 􏰈􏰏􏰉􏰊􏰧􏰪􏰔􏰳 􏰡􏰧􏰍 􏰆􏰒􏰔 􏰏􏰎􏰍 􏰊􏰈􏰙􏰈􏰍􏰔􏰪 􏰍􏰎􏰳 􏰤􏰒􏰎􏰓􏰈􏰪􏰈􏰏􏰇 􏰆􏰉􏰉􏰎􏰙􏰙􏰎􏰪􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏 􏰎􏰏 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰪􏰎􏰉􏱁􏰔􏰪 􏰐􏰟􏰈􏰤 􏰎􏰒 􏰎􏰏 􏰊􏰆􏰏􏰪 􏰆􏰏􏰪􏰁􏰎􏰒 􏰐􏰧􏰡􏰐􏰍􏰈􏰍􏰧􏰍􏰈􏰏􏰇 􏰇􏰒􏰎􏰧􏰏􏰪 􏰆􏰒􏰒􏰆􏰏􏰇􏰔􏰙􏰔􏰏􏰍􏰐 􏰚􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰈􏰓􏰔􏰒 􏰉􏰒􏰧􏰈􏰐􏰔 􏰍􏰒􏰆􏰏􏰐􏰤􏰎􏰒􏰍􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰦 􏰺􏰎􏰏􏰔 􏰎􏰚 􏰍􏰟􏰔􏰐􏰔 􏰙􏰎􏰪􏰈􏰚􏰈􏰉􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰐 􏰎􏰒 􏰉􏰟􏰆􏰏􏰇􏰔􏰐 􏰐􏰟􏰆􏰊􏰊 􏰆􏰚􏰚􏰔􏰉􏰍 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰓􏰆􏰉􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏 􏰤􏰆􏰉􏱁􏰆􏰇􏰔 􏰤􏰒􏰈􏰉􏰔 􏰎􏰒 􏰔􏰏􏰍􏰈􏰍􏰊􏰔 􏰫􏰎􏰧 􏰍􏰎 􏰆􏰏􏰫 􏰉􏰒􏰔􏰪􏰈􏰍 􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰔􏰚􏰧􏰏􏰪􏰦



I hope not.


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## disneyholic family

the daily numbers (since it's evening here on this side of the ocean)...

Italy - 627 people died today in Italy from covid-19, bringing total deaths in Italy to 4,032
Italy -  total confirmed cases is now 47,021 (increasing by 5,986 today)

Spain - 212  people died today in Spain from covid-19, bringing total deaths in Spain to 1,043
Spain - total confirmed cases is now 20,412 (increasing by 2,335 today)


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## DisneyWishes14

kaseyC said:


> I haven't posted much in this thread but have been following.  I'm just stunned at ABD's lack of response and flexibility in this situation.   Considering they are a luxury travel company plus the high price point of these trips makes their response totally unacceptable.  We have a September Rhine cruise booked with final payment in May.  It's September 6th so we just miss the final payment extension.  I'm wary of making final payment but will have no other choice but to go ahead with it or lose my deposit.  I can't park it because I used my one opportunity to move it when I moved this deposit from an Egypt trip to the Rhine.  I'm at a low level of trust with ABD at this time and it sucks.



Ironically, I travel almost exactly one month before you do, so our PIFs are now due at roughly the same time.  I'm really hoping by May, we have more clarity on this situation.  If they don't extend the PIF for your dates, I would be prepared to make your, very good case, regarding allowing the extension.


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## Grifdog22

sayhello said:


> They really had better not.  They'd have to go to a lot of trouble and expense to find hotels in each of our stops to replace the ship.  This clause is mostly to cover them for times when the river is too low for the ship to actually sail to all the ports.
> 
> Sayhello


And just to show you how far they have their head in the sand or up their, well, you know, Our trip leaves in less than two months and they still have it posted as available for booking.   The Disney brand has lost its shine and its stellar reputation with our family.  I'm not even sure I can get to the trip start point now, with 90% of the international flights being cancelled over the next few days.

Qantas has cancelled all of their overseas flights - so looking at one that we would have taken if we were not going to France is missing - they direct us to fly American airlines multi-hops instead of on their airlines.  Not too many seats now available as the flight cancellations are cascading over the next 60 days and our existing trip days are not available at all.

So if air is booked through Disney and they can't get you there, what next?  A virtual tour?

We had nearly a week of pre-days and a post-day.  Except for some minor cancellation fees, almost every single one has allowed a full refund and cancellation. My trip insurance folks even pointed out that we can move the insurance to another trip if we don't take this one.


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## *WDW*Groupie*

Just received the below e-mail from Quark. Kudos to them for how they are handling the situation.


I want to thank you in advance for your understanding and patience as the current situation—that’s impacting every facet of travel—unfolds and changes daily. We’re facing uncertain times—but one thing is certain: Our commitment to you as a member of our Quark Expeditions Polar Family.

We empathize with you and all of our guests whose plans have been disrupted by the COVID-19 crisis. This is why we've created our new _Book with Confidence & Rebook Anytime Policy_, applicable to our Arctic 2020 season (excludes North Pole):



Cancel any time for any reason right up to 24 hours prior to your voyage start date                                                                                                                                       
Risk-free - rebook with 100% Future Travel Refund Credit (FTRC) for deposits or other partial payments at time of cancelation received by Quark Expeditions                                                                                                                                    
Risk-free - rebook with 120% Future Travel Refund Credit (FTRC) for voyages where full payment at time of cancellation has been received by Quark Expeditions                                                                                                                                      
Rebook for free - No rebooking fees                                                                                                                                       
The Future Travel Refund Credit is Transferable*                                                                                                                                  
New and existing Antarctica 2020 bookings receive Extended Payment Terms for voyages up to 60 days prior to voyage                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  
If you require a Future Travel Refund Credit, please complete the form found on the bottom of our COVID-19 updates page, where you'll also find the terms of our _Book with Confidence & Rebook Anytime Policy_.

Wishing you happy travels in the near future,


----------



## E-Ticket

Grifdog22 said:


> I see my wife already making memes of roasting Mickey on a campfire spit and asking him to explain the company's loss of, well, you know. I think I could make a fortune selling Chapek pin cushions - the next Q & A at the stockholders meeting may be interesting.



Making memes can be very cathartic! Like the pin cushion idea, too!

When the news of Bob Iger stepping down was announced I looked up Chapek and was a bit worried with what I found (bean counter type), but figured if Iger picked him it'll be okay. Now I'm not so sure, the BOD may have selected him.

With ABD I'm not sure how high up the chain these decisions are being made, but one guy to blame may be the President of Disney Signature Experiences—Jeff Vahle.

Open letter to Mr. Vahle:
Yo, Jeff! What's up? The numbers on those spreadsheets are looking mighty dire I'm sure. And no bonuses coming anytime soon. The coronavirus is hitting you hard. Really hard, in fact. But guess what, it's hitting your customers hard, too. We are talking about people's health AND finances. Doesn't get any more personal than that wouldn't you agree?

Quick question, do you remember writing your OFFICIAL CORPORATE profile? Well, it's got this key line—you are "committed to...exceeding guest expectations and delivering long-term business growth." Seriously, it's right there in a big vast sea of other corporate speak right under your picture. That sounds really cool. Wow, impressive. But, here's the thing, neither of those things are happening right now...........AT ALL!!!! I'm a copywriter by trade, so I'll rewrite it for you, k? "I'm committed to  the almighty (Disney) dollar, following our corporate mandate come hell of high water, and disappointing our guests when the chips are down." There. Not bad for a first draft. Needs a bit of work I admit, but it does get the main points I believe.

What would we like? Simple. Follow what your OFFICIAL CORPORATE profile says. Do that and we will continue to gladly give you our money.

Signed,
A Bunch of Folks Who Have Literally Spent Hundreds of Thousands of Dollars with Disney


----------



## E-Ticket

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> Just received the below e-mail from Quark. Kudos to them for how they are handling the situation.
> 
> 
> I want to thank you in advance for your understanding and patience as the current situation—that’s impacting every facet of travel—unfolds and changes daily. We’re facing uncertain times—but one thing is certain: Our commitment to you as a member of our Quark Expeditions Polar Family.
> 
> We empathize with you and all of our guests whose plans have been disrupted by the COVID-19 crisis. This is why we've created our new _Book with Confidence & Rebook Anytime Policy_, applicable to our Arctic 2020 season (excludes North Pole):
> 
> 
> 
> Cancel any time for any reason right up to 24 hours prior to your voyage start date
> Risk-free - rebook with 100% Future Travel Refund Credit (FTRC) for deposits or other partial payments at time of cancelation received by Quark Expeditions
> Risk-free - rebook with 120% Future Travel Refund Credit (FTRC) for voyages where full payment at time of cancellation has been received by Quark Expeditions
> Rebook for free - No rebooking fees
> The Future Travel Refund Credit is Transferable*
> New and existing Antarctica 2020 bookings receive Extended Payment Terms for voyages up to 60 days prior to voyage
> If you require a Future Travel Refund Credit, please complete the form found on the bottom of our COVID-19 updates page, where you'll also find the terms of our _Book with Confidence & Rebook Anytime Policy_.
> 
> Wishing you happy travels in the near future,


Yo Jeff! See the above? That is how it is done when you are "committed to...exceeding guest expectations and delivering long-term business growth."


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Update on my situation with Scott Dunn. I spoke with a supervisor based in the US today and she let me know that they are okay to postpone my PIF until April 24th.

She said that if I cancel today then I will lose my deposit. Or I could re-book for a later date, which I am not able to do. Their terms and conditions say if _they_ cancel (the trip) they have to refund my deposit. She did say that they are working with customers who are due to travel in 2 weeks. At this point I am going to wait until April 24th and will re-evaluate. It has been a hassle dealing with them (due to the lack of communication), but the supervisor was really nice and was clearly stressed dealing with the fallout in the travel industry.


----------



## abdgeek

sayhello said:


> So AmaWaterways has suspended their river cruise operations through May 31 as of 10pm last night.  I'm pretty sure that means ABD is going to have to cancel my ABD river cruise.  No ship, no cruise (my Rhone cruise starts [started] May 14).
> 
> https://www.amawaterways.com/travel-updates
> 
> I wonder how long it will take ABD to cancel?
> 
> Sayhello



Sorry to hear that.  I’m booked on the ABD Danube River Cruise the end of June and I’m just waiting see how long it will take ABD to cancel.  Like you, I just started going directly to the AmaWaterways website to see what info they had.  The last time I looked, they had canceled river cruises through mid April.  That was maybe last week.  So they are definitely being proactive and keeping track of what’s happening overseas.  Since my trip isn’t until June, I know it’s not a priority right now.  I’ve already decided I’m going to switch my reservation to next summer once ABD cancels.  I was thinking about trying to do the South Africa ABD in December, but I’m not sure everything will be better by then.


----------



## sayhello

It's official now.  My TA just got the call from ABD, my ABD Rhone river cruise has been canceled.  

I was offered to move my funds to another Rhone river cruise, another Adventure altogether or cancel for a refund.  I chose the cancel for a refund.  I just don't want to have to worry at this point about what to move to, when to move it to, will things be better then, etc.  Plus, my trust in ABD is pretty shot.  The fact that they waited until AmaWaterways canceled the ship out from under them to pull the plug on a trip that was *obviously* not going to go and obviously *should not* go, really leaves a bad taste in my mouth.  My heart is broken for so many different reasons.  

Sayhello


----------



## Networth

Our Greece May 8th departure is no longer listed on the website, however it has not been canceled (per ABD). I have no desire to head to Europe in early May. Additionally, this is no longer a good time for me to be absent from work. 

I am needed here at home seeing patients and helping with the State of Florida’s response. We just rolled out our drive-through testing facility in Jacksonville, which I am helping oversee. I am really hoping at this juncture ABD  cancels and will provide us a refund.


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## sayhello

Networth said:


> Our Greece May 8th departure is no longer listed on the website, however it has not been canceled (per ABD). I have no desire to head to Europe in early May. Additionally, this is no longer a good time for me to be absent from work.
> 
> I am needed here at home seeing patients and helping with the State of Florida’s response. We just rolled out our drive through testing facility in Jacksonville which I am helping oversee. I am really hoping at this juncture ABD  cancels and will give us a refund.


I think people in the Medical profession, working to help folks in this time of crisis, should totally be given special consideration by ABD.  You are needed, and your sacrifices should be rewarded with consideration.

Sayhello


----------



## Rapunzellover

sayhello said:


> It's official now.  My TA just got the call from ABD, my ABD Rhone river cruise has been canceled.
> 
> I was offered to move my funds to another Rhone river cruise, another Adventure altogether or cancel for a refund.  I chose the cancel for a refund.  I just don't want to have to worry at this point about what to move to, when to move it to, will things be better then, etc.  Plus, my trust in ABD is pretty shot.  The fact that they waited until AmaWaterways canceled the ship out from under them to pull the plug on a trip that was *obviously* not going to go and obviously *should not* go, really leaves a bad taste in my mouth.  My heart is broken for so many different reasons.
> 
> Sayhello



I really hope ABD is listening here.   It should greatly disturb them that they're losing the trust of such a diehard like you, Sayhello.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Rapunzellover said:


> I really hope ABD is listening here.   It should greatly disturb them that they're losing the trust of such a diehard like you, Sayhello.


I totally agree. I'm so sad for you @sayhello  Hugs from us.


----------



## marie1981

Can I ask what date is the Rhone River cruise cancelled ?  I am going on the june 11 one... Is it that one ?  Thank you for the answer...


----------



## E-Ticket

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> I totally agree. I'm so sad for you @sayhello  Hugs from us.


Total agreement here as well!

It’s like the magic is gone for many of us and that is a sad time indeed. Disney is losing some of their best brand ambassadors.

I’m assuming that most of you are like my family, always hyping up Disney to friends and family (probably to an annoying degree LOL). We’re who they ask for advice for their Disney trip-where to stay, what to see, how to avoid crowds, how does this fast pass thing work, etc?

We’re the best salespeople they’ve got and it feels like they don’t care anymore. Mickey and Minnie please say it isn’t so.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

I just received an e-mail from the supervisor at Scott Dunn to re-cap our conversation (below). I'm on hold with Chase now to file a claim. It's clear that if the trip has to be cancelled they are going to use this clause to not refund my money. The clause is so broad it could literally mean they can cancel for anything and not have to refund my money. Sad that such a renowned company is taking this approach.

Thank you for your call today.

As promised I recap that I agreed that you would be able to not pay your final balance until 24th April 2020. At the 30 day before travel mark (24th April) we will re-assess. We can re discuss postpontment or cancellation. As mentioned your deposit is non refundable since we have already have committed costs but you may be able to claim on travel insurance for the deposit subject to the terms of your travel insurance, if applicable.
Regarding our terms and conditions, I do want to draw you to clause 10, regarding our responsibility. _“We and our Suppliers assume no responsibility for any personal injury, property damage, or other loss, accident, delay, inconvenience, or irregularity which may be occasioned by reason of any matter beyond our or our Suppliers’ exclusive control including but not limited to a delay or cancellation of a flight that causes you to miss all or any portion of the Tour, acts of God, acts of government, war, terrorist acts, riots, disaster, weather extremes, or strikes.”
_
Until then, I will remain your point of contact. Stay safe and well in these highly changeable times.


----------



## sayhello

marie1981 said:


> Can I ask what date is the Rhone River cruise cancelled ?  I am going on the june 11 one... Is it that one ?  Thank you for the answer...


May 14.   AmaWaterways has halted operations through May 31.  So it's unknown if your June 11th cruise will end up affected or not.

Sayhello


----------



## Rapunzellover

sayhello said:


> May 14.   AmaWaterways has halted operations through May 31.  So it's unknown if your June 11th cruise will end up affected or not.
> 
> Sayhello



I honestly don't see travel being feasible until at earliest August, probably later.  I'm under a stay at home order in CA right now which is likely to last 8 weeks minimum.  They are predicting 50% of the state could be infected in 8 weeks time.  If that happens,  this is not getting better for a long long long time.


----------



## Spencer Wright

I am hoping on this thread now.  I have an ABD scheduled for May 16th (Hollywood/Disneyland), for which I am holding out hope.  I know its a dwindling chance, but you never know!


----------



## Rapunzellover

Spencer Wright said:


> I am hoping on this thread now.  I have an ABD scheduled for May 16th (Hollywood/Disneyland), for which I am holding out hope.  I know its a dwindling chance, but you never know!



As a CA resident,  I can honestly tell you, it would take a miracle for a May 18th trip to run.  We will probably still be under a shelter in place order at that point.  They are saying 25 million Californians could be infected by that time.  I think the chances of this running have dwindled away, tbh.  Not trying to be a buzzkill, just a realist.  If you get the chance for a refund on this, take it.  And I wouldn't reschedule yet.


----------



## Rapunzellover

I'm hearing on a FB ABD page that the Disney College Program kids are being told to plan to come at the end of April, even though it's clear to anyone with brains that CA will 95% likely still be sheltering in place.  What the heck, Disney?


----------



## hilarys

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> I totally agree. I'm so sad for you @sayhello  Hugs from us.



I agree too - I am so sorry about the trip and all of the trust lost in ABD.  I also feel very bad for all of the wonderful Adventure Guides that I have kept in touch with and how this impacts them.


----------



## Poppins2000

Our May 17 Rhine River Cruise was cancelled.  My TA hasn't been notified yet but will request a full refund for us.  Still have to wait awhile to cancel our airfare, airlines are swamped - we bought insurance for both the flight and the trip so hopefully we can get our airfare back too!


----------



## Rapunzellover

hilarys said:


> I agree too - I am so sorry about the trip and all of the trust lost in ABD.  I also feel very bad for all of the wonderful Adventure Guides that I have kept in touch with and how this impacts them.



If I return to ABD it will be because of the guides.  They are amazing.


----------



## carpenta

hilarys said:


> I agree too - I am so sorry about the trip and all of the trust lost in ABD.  I also feel very bad for all of the wonderful Adventure Guides that I have kept in touch with and how this impacts them.



 I agree with you hillary about the guides. I'm sure other tour companies such as Tauck would welcome such wonderful guides especially in Tauck's Beridges Programs.


----------



## sayhello

Poppins2000 said:


> Our May 17 Rhine River Cruise was cancelled.  My TA hasn't been notified yet but will request a full refund for us.  Still have to wait awhile to cancel our airfare, airlines are swamped - we bought insurance for both the flight and the trip so hopefully we can get our airfare back too!


I guess it probably takes ABD a while to notify a whole ship's worth of families, vs the 40 per land ABD.  Friends of mine on the same May 14 cruise as I have not been notified yet, either.    Unfortunately, most trip insurance is not going to cover you for epidemic/pandemic related things.  If you can get them to cover it because your tour was cancelled vs because of the corona virus, let us know!

Sayhello


----------



## marie1981

sayhello said:


> May 14.   AmaWaterways has halted operations through May 31.  So it's unknown if your June 11th cruise will end up affected or not.
> 
> Sayhello


Thank you for your answer. I am so sorry your cruise was cancelled...


----------



## Sakura1017

DisneyWishes14 said:


> I was looking through my Rhine ABD travel agreement and I really hope they aren't going to try to invoke this:
> 
> 􏰸􏰑􏰸􏰺􏰶􏰖􏰩􏰖􏰽*ITINERARY CHANGES AND CANCELLATION BY US*: We will make every reasonable effort to operate the vacations as advertised; however, we and tour operator reserve the right to curtail or modify the itinerary, or to substitute activities, hotels, meals or transportation as we deem necessary. Please also note that during certain holidays and peak periods or due to repairs or renovations, some activities may be disrupted or unavailable. *Deviations from planned vacation package itineraries or any aspects of the travel may occur. If for river cruise packages conditions make cruise routes unsafe for navigation or in other respects, or raise sufficient doubt about safety, we and tour operator reserve the right to modify or provide alternate services, which may include, but are not limited to, providing accommodation on the docked ship or on land and/or substituting ground arrangements for river cruise transportation*. None of these modifications or changes shall affect the vacation package price or entitle you to any credit or refund.
> 􏰸􏰑􏰸􏰺􏰶􏰖􏰩􏰖􏰽 􏰗􏱈􏰩􏰺􏰻􏰶􏰷 􏰩􏰺􏰬 􏰗􏰩􏰺􏰗􏰶􏰠􏰠􏰩􏰑􏰸􏰹􏰺 􏰱􏰽 􏰼􏰷􏰥 􏰲􏰔 􏰢􏰈􏰊􏰊 􏰙􏰆􏱁􏰔 􏰔􏰓􏰔􏰒􏰫 􏰒􏰔􏰆􏰐􏰎􏰏􏰆􏰡􏰊􏰔 􏰔􏰚􏰚􏰎􏰒􏰍 􏰍􏰎 􏰎􏰤􏰔􏰒􏰆􏰍􏰔 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰓􏰆􏰉􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰐 􏰆􏰐 􏰆􏰪􏰓􏰔􏰒􏰍􏰈􏰐􏰔􏰪􏱖 􏰟􏰎􏰢􏰔􏰓􏰔􏰒􏰳 􏰢􏰔 􏰆􏰏􏰪 􏰍􏰎􏰧􏰒 􏰎􏰤􏰔􏰒􏰆􏰍􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰔􏰐􏰔􏰒􏰓􏰔 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰒􏰈􏰇􏰟􏰍 􏰍􏰎 􏰉􏰧􏰒􏰍􏰆􏰈􏰊 􏰎􏰒 􏰙􏰎􏰪􏰈􏰚􏰫 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰈􏰍􏰈􏰏􏰔􏰒􏰆􏰒􏰫􏰳 􏰎􏰒 􏰍􏰎 􏰐􏰧􏰡􏰐􏰍􏰈􏰍􏰧􏰍􏰔 􏰆􏰉􏰍􏰈􏰓􏰈􏰍􏰈􏰔􏰐􏰳 􏰟􏰎􏰍􏰔􏰊􏰐􏰳 􏰙􏰔􏰆􏰊􏰐 􏰎􏰒 􏰍􏰒􏰆􏰏􏰐􏰤􏰎􏰒􏰍􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏 􏰆􏰐 􏰢􏰔 􏰪􏰔􏰔􏰙 􏰏􏰔􏰉􏰔􏰐􏰐􏰆􏰒􏰫􏰦 􏰵􏰊􏰔􏰆􏰐􏰔 􏰆􏰊􏰐􏰎 􏰏􏰎􏰍􏰔 􏰍􏰟􏰆􏰍 􏰪􏰧􏰒􏰈􏰏􏰇 􏰉􏰔􏰒􏰍􏰆􏰈􏰏 􏰟􏰎􏰊􏰈􏰪􏰆􏰫􏰐 􏰆􏰏􏰪 􏰤􏰔􏰆􏱁 􏰤􏰔􏰒􏰈􏰎􏰪􏰐 􏰎􏰒 􏰪􏰧􏰔 􏰍􏰎 􏰒􏰔􏰤􏰆􏰈􏰒􏰐 􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰔􏰏􏰎􏰓􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰐􏰳 􏰐􏰎􏰙􏰔 􏰆􏰉􏰍􏰈􏰓􏰈􏰍􏰈􏰔􏰐 􏰙􏰆􏰫 􏰡􏰔 􏰪􏰈􏰐􏰒􏰧􏰤􏰍􏰔􏰪 􏰎􏰒 􏰧􏰏􏰆􏰓􏰆􏰈􏰊􏰆􏰡􏰊􏰔􏰦 􏰬􏰔􏰓􏰈􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰐 􏰚􏰒􏰎􏰙 􏰤􏰊􏰆􏰏􏰏􏰔􏰪 􏰓􏰆􏰉􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏 􏰤􏰆􏰉􏱁􏰆􏰇􏰔 􏰈􏰍􏰈􏰏􏰔􏰒􏰆􏰒􏰈􏰔􏰐 􏰎􏰒 􏰆􏰏􏰫 􏰆􏰐􏰤􏰔􏰉􏰍􏰐 􏰎􏰚 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰍􏰒􏰆􏰓􏰔􏰊 􏰙􏰆􏰫 􏰎􏰉􏰉􏰧􏰒􏰦 􏰸􏰚 􏰚􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰈􏰓􏰔􏰒 􏰉􏰒􏰧􏰈􏰐􏰔 􏰤􏰆􏰉􏱁􏰆􏰇􏰔􏰐 􏰉􏰎􏰏􏰪􏰈􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰐 􏰙􏰆􏱁􏰔 􏰉􏰒􏰧􏰈􏰐􏰔 􏰒􏰎􏰧􏰍􏰔􏰐 􏰧􏰏􏰐􏰆􏰚􏰔 􏰚􏰎􏰒 􏰏􏰆􏰓􏰈􏰇􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏 􏰎􏰒 􏰈􏰏 􏰎􏰍􏰟􏰔􏰒 􏰒􏰔􏰐􏰤􏰔􏰉􏰍􏰐􏰳 􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰆􏰈􏰐􏰔 􏰐􏰧􏰚􏰚􏰈􏰉􏰈􏰔􏰏􏰍 􏰪􏰎􏰧􏰡􏰍 􏰆􏰡􏰎􏰧􏰍 􏰐􏰆􏰚􏰔􏰍􏰫􏰳 􏰢􏰔 􏰆􏰏􏰪 􏰍􏰎􏰧􏰒 􏰎􏰤􏰔􏰒􏰆􏰍􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰔􏰐􏰔􏰒􏰓􏰔 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰒􏰈􏰇􏰟􏰍 􏰍􏰎 􏰙􏰎􏰪􏰈􏰚􏰫 􏰎􏰒 􏰤􏰒􏰎􏰓􏰈􏰪􏰔 􏰆􏰊􏰍􏰔􏰒􏰏􏰆􏰍􏰔 􏰐􏰔􏰒􏰓􏰈􏰉􏰔􏰐􏰳 􏰢􏰟􏰈􏰉􏰟 􏰙􏰆􏰫 􏰈􏰏􏰉􏰊􏰧􏰪􏰔􏰳 􏰡􏰧􏰍 􏰆􏰒􏰔 􏰏􏰎􏰍 􏰊􏰈􏰙􏰈􏰍􏰔􏰪 􏰍􏰎􏰳 􏰤􏰒􏰎􏰓􏰈􏰪􏰈􏰏􏰇 􏰆􏰉􏰉􏰎􏰙􏰙􏰎􏰪􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏 􏰎􏰏 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰪􏰎􏰉􏱁􏰔􏰪 􏰐􏰟􏰈􏰤 􏰎􏰒 􏰎􏰏 􏰊􏰆􏰏􏰪 􏰆􏰏􏰪􏰁􏰎􏰒 􏰐􏰧􏰡􏰐􏰍􏰈􏰍􏰧􏰍􏰈􏰏􏰇 􏰇􏰒􏰎􏰧􏰏􏰪 􏰆􏰒􏰒􏰆􏰏􏰇􏰔􏰙􏰔􏰏􏰍􏰐 􏰚􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰈􏰓􏰔􏰒 􏰉􏰒􏰧􏰈􏰐􏰔 􏰍􏰒􏰆􏰏􏰐􏰤􏰎􏰒􏰍􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰦 􏰺􏰎􏰏􏰔 􏰎􏰚 􏰍􏰟􏰔􏰐􏰔 􏰙􏰎􏰪􏰈􏰚􏰈􏰉􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰐 􏰎􏰒 􏰉􏰟􏰆􏰏􏰇􏰔􏰐 􏰐􏰟􏰆􏰊􏰊 􏰆􏰚􏰚􏰔􏰉􏰍 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰓􏰆􏰉􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏 􏰤􏰆􏰉􏱁􏰆􏰇􏰔 􏰤􏰒􏰈􏰉􏰔 􏰎􏰒 􏰔􏰏􏰍􏰈􏰍􏰊􏰔 􏰫􏰎􏰧 􏰍􏰎 􏰆􏰏􏰫 􏰉􏰒􏰔􏰪􏰈􏰍 􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰔􏰚􏰧􏰏􏰪􏰦
> 􏰗􏱈􏰩􏰺􏰻􏰶􏰷 􏰩􏰺􏰬 􏰗􏰩􏰺􏰗􏰶􏰠􏰠􏰩􏰑􏰸􏰹􏰺 􏰱􏰽 􏰼􏰷􏰥 􏰲􏰔 􏰢􏰈􏰊􏰊 􏰙􏰆􏱁􏰔 􏰔􏰓􏰔􏰒􏰫 􏰒􏰔􏰆􏰐􏰎􏰏􏰆􏰡􏰊􏰔 􏰔􏰚􏰚􏰎􏰒􏰍 􏰍􏰎 􏰎􏰤􏰔􏰒􏰆􏰍􏰔 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰓􏰆􏰉􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰐 􏰆􏰐 􏰆􏰪􏰓􏰔􏰒􏰍􏰈􏰐􏰔􏰪􏱖 􏰟􏰎􏰢􏰔􏰓􏰔􏰒􏰳 􏰢􏰔 􏰆􏰏􏰪 􏰍􏰎􏰧􏰒 􏰎􏰤􏰔􏰒􏰆􏰍􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰔􏰐􏰔􏰒􏰓􏰔 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰒􏰈􏰇􏰟􏰍 􏰍􏰎 􏰉􏰧􏰒􏰍􏰆􏰈􏰊 􏰎􏰒 􏰙􏰎􏰪􏰈􏰚􏰫 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰈􏰍􏰈􏰏􏰔􏰒􏰆􏰒􏰫􏰳 􏰎􏰒 􏰍􏰎 􏰐􏰧􏰡􏰐􏰍􏰈􏰍􏰧􏰍􏰔 􏰆􏰉􏰍􏰈􏰓􏰈􏰍􏰈􏰔􏰐􏰳 􏰟􏰎􏰍􏰔􏰊􏰐􏰳 􏰙􏰔􏰆􏰊􏰐 􏰎􏰒 􏰍􏰒􏰆􏰏􏰐􏰤􏰎􏰒􏰍􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏 􏰆􏰐 􏰢􏰔 􏰪􏰔􏰔􏰙 􏰏􏰔􏰉􏰔􏰐􏰐􏰆􏰒􏰫􏰦 􏰵􏰊􏰔􏰆􏰐􏰔 􏰆􏰊􏰐􏰎 􏰏􏰎􏰍􏰔 􏰍􏰟􏰆􏰍 􏰪􏰧􏰒􏰈􏰏􏰇 􏰉􏰔􏰒􏰍􏰆􏰈􏰏 􏰟􏰎􏰊􏰈􏰪􏰆􏰫􏰐 􏰆􏰏􏰪 􏰤􏰔􏰆􏱁 􏰤􏰔􏰒􏰈􏰎􏰪􏰐 􏰎􏰒 􏰪􏰧􏰔 􏰍􏰎 􏰒􏰔􏰤􏰆􏰈􏰒􏰐 􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰔􏰏􏰎􏰓􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰐􏰳 􏰐􏰎􏰙􏰔 􏰆􏰉􏰍􏰈􏰓􏰈􏰍􏰈􏰔􏰐 􏰙􏰆􏰫 􏰡􏰔 􏰪􏰈􏰐􏰒􏰧􏰤􏰍􏰔􏰪 􏰎􏰒 􏰧􏰏􏰆􏰓􏰆􏰈􏰊􏰆􏰡􏰊􏰔􏰦 􏰬􏰔􏰓􏰈􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰐 􏰚􏰒􏰎􏰙 􏰤􏰊􏰆􏰏􏰏􏰔􏰪 􏰓􏰆􏰉􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏 􏰤􏰆􏰉􏱁􏰆􏰇􏰔 􏰈􏰍􏰈􏰏􏰔􏰒􏰆􏰒􏰈􏰔􏰐 􏰎􏰒 􏰆􏰏􏰫 􏰆􏰐􏰤􏰔􏰉􏰍􏰐 􏰎􏰚 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰍􏰒􏰆􏰓􏰔􏰊 􏰙􏰆􏰫 􏰎􏰉􏰉􏰧􏰒􏰦 􏰸􏰚 􏰚􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰈􏰓􏰔􏰒 􏰉􏰒􏰧􏰈􏰐􏰔 􏰤􏰆􏰉􏱁􏰆􏰇􏰔􏰐 􏰉􏰎􏰏􏰪􏰈􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰐 􏰙􏰆􏱁􏰔 􏰉􏰒􏰧􏰈􏰐􏰔 􏰒􏰎􏰧􏰍􏰔􏰐 􏰧􏰏􏰐􏰆􏰚􏰔 􏰚􏰎􏰒 􏰏􏰆􏰓􏰈􏰇􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏 􏰎􏰒 􏰈􏰏 􏰎􏰍􏰟􏰔􏰒 􏰒􏰔􏰐􏰤􏰔􏰉􏰍􏰐􏰳 􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰆􏰈􏰐􏰔 􏰐􏰧􏰚􏰚􏰈􏰉􏰈􏰔􏰏􏰍 􏰪􏰎􏰧􏰡􏰍 􏰆􏰡􏰎􏰧􏰍 􏰐􏰆􏰚􏰔􏰍􏰫􏰳 􏰢􏰔 􏰆􏰏􏰪 􏰍􏰎􏰧􏰒 􏰎􏰤􏰔􏰒􏰆􏰍􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰔􏰐􏰔􏰒􏰓􏰔 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰒􏰈􏰇􏰟􏰍 􏰍􏰎 􏰙􏰎􏰪􏰈􏰚􏰫 􏰎􏰒 􏰤􏰒􏰎􏰓􏰈􏰪􏰔 􏰆􏰊􏰍􏰔􏰒􏰏􏰆􏰍􏰔 􏰐􏰔􏰒􏰓􏰈􏰉􏰔􏰐􏰳 􏰢􏰟􏰈􏰉􏰟 􏰙􏰆􏰫 􏰈􏰏􏰉􏰊􏰧􏰪􏰔􏰳 􏰡􏰧􏰍 􏰆􏰒􏰔 􏰏􏰎􏰍 􏰊􏰈􏰙􏰈􏰍􏰔􏰪 􏰍􏰎􏰳 􏰤􏰒􏰎􏰓􏰈􏰪􏰈􏰏􏰇 􏰆􏰉􏰉􏰎􏰙􏰙􏰎􏰪􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏 􏰎􏰏 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰪􏰎􏰉􏱁􏰔􏰪 􏰐􏰟􏰈􏰤 􏰎􏰒 􏰎􏰏 􏰊􏰆􏰏􏰪 􏰆􏰏􏰪􏰁􏰎􏰒 􏰐􏰧􏰡􏰐􏰍􏰈􏰍􏰧􏰍􏰈􏰏􏰇 􏰇􏰒􏰎􏰧􏰏􏰪 􏰆􏰒􏰒􏰆􏰏􏰇􏰔􏰙􏰔􏰏􏰍􏰐 􏰚􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰈􏰓􏰔􏰒 􏰉􏰒􏰧􏰈􏰐􏰔 􏰍􏰒􏰆􏰏􏰐􏰤􏰎􏰒􏰍􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰦 􏰺􏰎􏰏􏰔 􏰎􏰚 􏰍􏰟􏰔􏰐􏰔 􏰙􏰎􏰪􏰈􏰚􏰈􏰉􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰐 􏰎􏰒 􏰉􏰟􏰆􏰏􏰇􏰔􏰐 􏰐􏰟􏰆􏰊􏰊 􏰆􏰚􏰚􏰔􏰉􏰍 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰓􏰆􏰉􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏 􏰤􏰆􏰉􏱁􏰆􏰇􏰔 􏰤􏰒􏰈􏰉􏰔 􏰎􏰒 􏰔􏰏􏰍􏰈􏰍􏰊􏰔 􏰫􏰎􏰧 􏰍􏰎 􏰆􏰏􏰫 􏰉􏰒􏰔􏰪􏰈􏰍 􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰔􏰚􏰧􏰏􏰪􏰦
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> 􏰸􏰑􏰸􏰺􏰶􏰖􏰩􏰖􏰽 􏰗􏱈􏰩􏰺􏰻􏰶􏰷 􏰩􏰺􏰬 􏰗􏰩􏰺􏰗􏰶􏰠􏰠􏰩􏰑􏰸􏰹􏰺 􏰱􏰽 􏰼􏰷􏰥 􏰲􏰔 􏰢􏰈􏰊􏰊 􏰙􏰆􏱁􏰔 􏰔􏰓􏰔􏰒􏰫 􏰒􏰔􏰆􏰐􏰎􏰏􏰆􏰡􏰊􏰔 􏰔􏰚􏰚􏰎􏰒􏰍 􏰍􏰎 􏰎􏰤􏰔􏰒􏰆􏰍􏰔 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰓􏰆􏰉􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰐 􏰆􏰐 􏰆􏰪􏰓􏰔􏰒􏰍􏰈􏰐􏰔􏰪􏱖 􏰟􏰎􏰢􏰔􏰓􏰔􏰒􏰳 􏰢􏰔 􏰆􏰏􏰪 􏰍􏰎􏰧􏰒 􏰎􏰤􏰔􏰒􏰆􏰍􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰔􏰐􏰔􏰒􏰓􏰔 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰒􏰈􏰇􏰟􏰍 􏰍􏰎 􏰉􏰧􏰒􏰍􏰆􏰈􏰊 􏰎􏰒 􏰙􏰎􏰪􏰈􏰚􏰫 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰈􏰍􏰈􏰏􏰔􏰒􏰆􏰒􏰫􏰳 􏰎􏰒 􏰍􏰎 􏰐􏰧􏰡􏰐􏰍􏰈􏰍􏰧􏰍􏰔 􏰆􏰉􏰍􏰈􏰓􏰈􏰍􏰈􏰔􏰐􏰳 􏰟􏰎􏰍􏰔􏰊􏰐􏰳 􏰙􏰔􏰆􏰊􏰐 􏰎􏰒 􏰍􏰒􏰆􏰏􏰐􏰤􏰎􏰒􏰍􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏 􏰆􏰐 􏰢􏰔 􏰪􏰔􏰔􏰙 􏰏􏰔􏰉􏰔􏰐􏰐􏰆􏰒􏰫􏰦 􏰵􏰊􏰔􏰆􏰐􏰔 􏰆􏰊􏰐􏰎 􏰏􏰎􏰍􏰔 􏰍􏰟􏰆􏰍 􏰪􏰧􏰒􏰈􏰏􏰇 􏰉􏰔􏰒􏰍􏰆􏰈􏰏 􏰟􏰎􏰊􏰈􏰪􏰆􏰫􏰐 􏰆􏰏􏰪 􏰤􏰔􏰆􏱁 􏰤􏰔􏰒􏰈􏰎􏰪􏰐 􏰎􏰒 􏰪􏰧􏰔 􏰍􏰎 􏰒􏰔􏰤􏰆􏰈􏰒􏰐 􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰔􏰏􏰎􏰓􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰐􏰳 􏰐􏰎􏰙􏰔 􏰆􏰉􏰍􏰈􏰓􏰈􏰍􏰈􏰔􏰐 􏰙􏰆􏰫 􏰡􏰔 􏰪􏰈􏰐􏰒􏰧􏰤􏰍􏰔􏰪 􏰎􏰒 􏰧􏰏􏰆􏰓􏰆􏰈􏰊􏰆􏰡􏰊􏰔􏰦 􏰬􏰔􏰓􏰈􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰐 􏰚􏰒􏰎􏰙 􏰤􏰊􏰆􏰏􏰏􏰔􏰪 􏰓􏰆􏰉􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏 􏰤􏰆􏰉􏱁􏰆􏰇􏰔 􏰈􏰍􏰈􏰏􏰔􏰒􏰆􏰒􏰈􏰔􏰐 􏰎􏰒 􏰆􏰏􏰫 􏰆􏰐􏰤􏰔􏰉􏰍􏰐 􏰎􏰚 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰍􏰒􏰆􏰓􏰔􏰊 􏰙􏰆􏰫 􏰎􏰉􏰉􏰧􏰒􏰦 􏰸􏰚 􏰚􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰈􏰓􏰔􏰒 􏰉􏰒􏰧􏰈􏰐􏰔 􏰤􏰆􏰉􏱁􏰆􏰇􏰔􏰐 􏰉􏰎􏰏􏰪􏰈􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰐 􏰙􏰆􏱁􏰔 􏰉􏰒􏰧􏰈􏰐􏰔 􏰒􏰎􏰧􏰍􏰔􏰐 􏰧􏰏􏰐􏰆􏰚􏰔 􏰚􏰎􏰒 􏰏􏰆􏰓􏰈􏰇􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏 􏰎􏰒 􏰈􏰏 􏰎􏰍􏰟􏰔􏰒 􏰒􏰔􏰐􏰤􏰔􏰉􏰍􏰐􏰳 􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰆􏰈􏰐􏰔 􏰐􏰧􏰚􏰚􏰈􏰉􏰈􏰔􏰏􏰍 􏰪􏰎􏰧􏰡􏰍 􏰆􏰡􏰎􏰧􏰍 􏰐􏰆􏰚􏰔􏰍􏰫􏰳 􏰢􏰔 􏰆􏰏􏰪 􏰍􏰎􏰧􏰒 􏰎􏰤􏰔􏰒􏰆􏰍􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰔􏰐􏰔􏰒􏰓􏰔 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰒􏰈􏰇􏰟􏰍 􏰍􏰎 􏰙􏰎􏰪􏰈􏰚􏰫 􏰎􏰒 􏰤􏰒􏰎􏰓􏰈􏰪􏰔 􏰆􏰊􏰍􏰔􏰒􏰏􏰆􏰍􏰔 􏰐􏰔􏰒􏰓􏰈􏰉􏰔􏰐􏰳 􏰢􏰟􏰈􏰉􏰟 􏰙􏰆􏰫 􏰈􏰏􏰉􏰊􏰧􏰪􏰔􏰳 􏰡􏰧􏰍 􏰆􏰒􏰔 􏰏􏰎􏰍 􏰊􏰈􏰙􏰈􏰍􏰔􏰪 􏰍􏰎􏰳 􏰤􏰒􏰎􏰓􏰈􏰪􏰈􏰏􏰇 􏰆􏰉􏰉􏰎􏰙􏰙􏰎􏰪􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏 􏰎􏰏 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰪􏰎􏰉􏱁􏰔􏰪 􏰐􏰟􏰈􏰤 􏰎􏰒 􏰎􏰏 􏰊􏰆􏰏􏰪 􏰆􏰏􏰪􏰁􏰎􏰒 􏰐􏰧􏰡􏰐􏰍􏰈􏰍􏰧􏰍􏰈􏰏􏰇 􏰇􏰒􏰎􏰧􏰏􏰪 􏰆􏰒􏰒􏰆􏰏􏰇􏰔􏰙􏰔􏰏􏰍􏰐 􏰚􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰈􏰓􏰔􏰒 􏰉􏰒􏰧􏰈􏰐􏰔 􏰍􏰒􏰆􏰏􏰐􏰤􏰎􏰒􏰍􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰦 􏰺􏰎􏰏􏰔 􏰎􏰚 􏰍􏰟􏰔􏰐􏰔 􏰙􏰎􏰪􏰈􏰚􏰈􏰉􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏􏰐 􏰎􏰒 􏰉􏰟􏰆􏰏􏰇􏰔􏰐 􏰐􏰟􏰆􏰊􏰊 􏰆􏰚􏰚􏰔􏰉􏰍 􏰍􏰟􏰔 􏰓􏰆􏰉􏰆􏰍􏰈􏰎􏰏 􏰤􏰆􏰉􏱁􏰆􏰇􏰔 􏰤􏰒􏰈􏰉􏰔 􏰎􏰒 􏰔􏰏􏰍􏰈􏰍􏰊􏰔 􏰫􏰎􏰧 􏰍􏰎 􏰆􏰏􏰫 􏰉􏰒􏰔􏰪􏰈􏰍 􏰎􏰒 􏰒􏰔􏰚􏰧􏰏􏰪􏰦


I would be so mad if I saw that. This basically makes it that they are money hungry and will do anything just to make sure the trip goes on. When you book a vacation you want to get what you paid for. If they change or modify everything on the itinerary nothing is guaranteed. They should just cancel at that point before you get disappointed customers.


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## Sakura1017

Personally I wouldn't book anything with ABD right now. To get your deposit back you need to cancel like within 10 or 14 days to get your deposit back. Which is the shortest time frame with Disney. In addition, I'm not sure if my vacationists did this right, but for those that book 2 rooms, are they on the same reservation number? My parents are with me for next year's cruise, and I have a feeling they don't want to travel unless the vaccine is available. I'm worried that the deposit I paid for them will be lost and can't transfer into my own reservation. Even though I am the one that booked and everything is paid under my name .


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## sayhello

Well, the good news is that all of the Tour providers that I've heard back from so far have been totally understanding, and will be giving me refunds.  Fat Tire Tours asked me to leave it as a travel credit if I can, and I'm still thinking that one over (it was less than $30).  The owner of the beautiful B&B I was so looking forward to staying at in Normandy said "sorry to hear, but….. we expected."  Just one more tour provider to hear from (Normandy beaches tour) and then waiting to see what to do about the one tour that was non-refundable (food tour in Lyon). So not the worst as far as that part is concerned.

Still waiting to see what happens with Delta.  I know they're still scrambling, and re-arranging flights, and their current published policies are only through the end of April (and their website asks you to only contact them if your flight is in the next 72 hours).  Plus, after 4 significant changes to my ticket, 3 out of the 5 legs are on Air France as a codeshare, and they are saying "Due to increasing travel restrictions, and faced with a sharp decline in demand, we will be reducing our flight capacity by up to 90% over the next few days. This capacity reduction is currently planned to last 2 months." So I'll wait a bit to contact Delta, and just see what happens.  I'm hoping they either cancel my flights or change them so drastically that I can just get a refund.  I also need to call the trip insurance folks & see what happens to that, since I'm pretty sure I can't make any sort of claim.

This is the first time in I can't remember how long that I haven't had an active ticker in my signature.  

Sayhello


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## lovetotravel

sayhello said:


> Well, the good news is that all of the Tour providers that I've heard back from so far have been totally understanding, and will be giving me refunds.  Fat Tire Tours asked me to leave it as a travel credit if I can, and I'm still thinking that one over (it was less than $30).  The owner of the beautiful B&B I was so looking forward to staying at in Normandy said "sorry to hear, but….. we expected."  Just one more tour provider to hear from (Normandy beaches tour) and they waiting to see what to do about the one tour that was non-refundable (food tour in Lyon). So not the worst as far as that part is concerned.
> 
> Still waiting to see what happens with Delta.  I know they're still scrambling, and re-arranging flights, and their current published policies are only through the end of April (and their website asks you to only contact them if your flight is in the next 72 hours).  Plus, after 4 significant changes to my ticket, 3 out of the 5 legs are on Air France as a codeshare, and they are saying "Due to increasing travel restrictions, and faced with a sharp decline in demand, we will be reducing our flight capacity by up to 90% over the next few days. This capacity reduction is currently planned to last 2 months." So I'll wait a bit to contact Delta, and just see what happens.  I'm hoping they either cancel my flights or change them so drastically that I can just get a refund.  I also need to call the trip insurance folks & see what happens to that, since I'm pretty sure I can't make any sort of claim.
> 
> This is the first time in I can't remember how long that I haven't had an active ticker in my signature.
> 
> Sayhello


@sayhello Delta is doing changes for international flights to May!

"Delta is waiving all change fees for travel impacted by coronavirus. This applies to all domestic and international travel departing in March, April or May 2020, as well as all tickets purchased in March 2020.  "
https://www.delta.com/us/en/advisories/coronavirus-travel/cancel-change-requirements


----------



## sayhello

lovetotravel said:


> @sayhello Delta is doing changes for international flights to May!
> 
> "Delta is waiving all change fees for travel impacted by coronavirus. This applies to all domestic and international travel departing in March, April or May 2020, as well as all tickets purchased in March 2020.  "
> https://www.delta.com/us/en/advisories/coronavirus-travel/cancel-change-requirements


Thanks!  I'll go check.  I'd rather get a refund than a travel credit, because I'm pretty positive I won't be traveling that far this year.  But we shall see!

Sayhello


----------



## disneyholic family

and the numbers continue to go up in europe.
When you think they couldn't possibly go up, they do.

793 people died in Italy today from covid-19, taking the total dead in Italy to 4,825.
Total confirmed cases in italy = 53,578 (up today by 6,557)....
and they have even more people in serious/critical condition than yesterday (despite all those deaths)

and Spain, France, the UK, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Belgium all have climbing death rates.
Just as they said it would, as the numbers rise the death rate accelerates when the medical system becomes overwhelmed.

I'm still not sure if flattening the curve was necessarily the way to go, despite what we see in Italy.
The damage to the economy  from attempting to flatten the curve is so extreme it seems an argument can be made for just letting the brush fire go until it burns itself out.
My husband argues with me that what has been done (shutting down the economy and sheltering in place) is the only ethical choice.
But i'm not sure.  I just don't know.
.


----------



## debraW76

disneyholic family said:


> and the numbers continue to go up in europe.
> When you think they couldn't possibly go up, they do.
> 
> 793 people died in Italy today from covid-19, taking the total dead in Italy to 4,825.
> Total confirmed cases in italy = 53,578 (up today by 6,557)....
> and they have even more people in serious/critical condition than yesterday (despite all those deaths)
> 
> and Spain, France, the UK, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Belgium all have climbing death rates.
> Just as they said it would, as the numbers rise the death rate accelerates when the medical system becomes overwhelmed.
> 
> I'm still not sure if flattening the curve was necessarily the way to go, despite what we see in Italy.
> The damage to the economy  from attempting to flatten the curve is so extreme it seems an argument can be made for just letting the brush fire go until it burns itself out.
> My husband argues with me that what has been done (shutting down the economy and sheltering in place) is the only ethical choice.
> But i'm not sure.  I just don't know.
> .


Thanks for keeping us updated. My husband and I have had the same conversation. We are potentially saving lives by flattening the curve, but at the same time we may be costing lives due to the economic impact we are inflicting on the entire world.  I have heard experts in several fields make their arguments but the truth is no body knows how to deal with this because nobody has had any experience with anything like this.  
A few weeks ago I jumped on this board because like all of you I was concerned about missing my trip or losing out on some money.  But at this point I don’t even care about my trip or the few thousand I may lose.  I just want things to go back to normal or at least learn what the new normal is going to be like. I work in aviation and they are forecasting a 40% downturn in 2020.  Honestly I think “they” are being optimistic.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

debraW76 said:


> Thanks for keeping us updated. My husband and I have had the same conversation. We are potentially saving lives by flattening the curve, but at the same time we may be costing lives due to the economic impact we are inflicting on the entire world.  I have heard experts in several fields make their arguments but the truth is no body knows how to deal with this because nobody has had any experience with anything like this.
> A few weeks ago I jumped on this board because like all of you I was concerned about missing my trip or losing out on some money.  But at this point I don’t even care about my trip or the few thousand I may lose.  I just want things to go back to normal or at least learn what the new normal is going to be like. I work in aviation and they are forecasting a 40% downturn in 2020.  Honestly I think “they” are being optimistic.


I think many of us are having these types of conversations. I think they will be studying this one in social studies for years.


----------



## E-Ticket

I totally agree on the guides! They are the best part of ABD. Shout out to James & Dusty!


----------



## sayhello

E-Ticket said:


> I totally agree on the guides! They are the best part of ABD. Shout out to James & Dusty!


I love ABD's trips.  I *adore* the Adventure Guides.  But somebody running the show is having some real issues.

Sayhello


----------



## lovetotravel

sayhello said:


> I love ABD's trips.  I *adore* the Adventure Guides.  But somebody running the show is having some real issues.
> 
> Sayhello


I agree.

I hope ABD realizes that the more flexible the policies are today about COVID-19, the more likely I will keep my current trips and book more in the future. The more strict the policies, the less likely I will book future trips and look elsewhere. 
It's customer service.


----------



## dolewhipdreams

sayhello said:


> But somebody running the show is having some real issues.


I'm not sure how much of an impact this had but Bob Chapek was the chairman of the group that included ABD. I wonder if his transition to CEO affected the decision-making tree. It's not an excuse and the current Senior VP of signature experiences is probably more to blame but it's something to think about.


----------



## Candycane83

disneyholic family said:


> and the numbers continue to go up in europe.
> When you think they couldn't possibly go up, they do.
> 
> 793 people died in Italy today from covid-19, taking the total dead in Italy to 4,825.
> Total confirmed cases in italy = 53,578 (up today by 6,557)....
> and they have even more people in serious/critical condition than yesterday (despite all those deaths)
> 
> and Spain, France, the UK, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Belgium all have climbing death rates.
> Just as they said it would, as the numbers rise the death rate accelerates when the medical system becomes overwhelmed.
> 
> I'm still not sure if flattening the curve was necessarily the way to go, despite what we see in Italy.
> The damage to the economy  from attempting to flatten the curve is so extreme it seems an argument can be made for just letting the brush fire go until it burns itself out.
> My husband argues with me that what has been done (shutting down the economy and sheltering in place) is the only ethical choice.
> But i'm not sure.  I just don't know.
> .


I agree about flattening the curve. The economic ramifications are massive... working in the banking industry, I can say the sharp downturn is comparable to the virus spreading but even worse. I’m not saying it’s the wrong move but it’s going to cost people a lot. If you look at poorer nations, people are already starting to turn to crime because of the shutdown. I really hope they find some other way if and when there is a second wave of this ...


----------



## aggiedog

disneyholic family said:


> and the numbers continue to go up in europe.
> When you think they couldn't possibly go up, they do.
> 
> 793 people died in Italy today from covid-19, taking the total dead in Italy to 4,825.
> Total confirmed cases in italy = 53,578 (up today by 6,557)....
> and they have even more people in serious/critical condition than yesterday (despite all those deaths)
> 
> and Spain, France, the UK, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Belgium all have climbing death rates.
> Just as they said it would, as the numbers rise the death rate accelerates when the medical system becomes overwhelmed.
> 
> I'm still not sure if flattening the curve was necessarily the way to go, despite what we see in Italy.
> The damage to the economy  from attempting to flatten the curve is so extreme it seems an argument can be made for just letting the brush fire go until it burns itself out.
> My husband argues with me that what has been done (shutting down the economy and sheltering in place) is the only ethical choice.
> But i'm not sure.  I just don't know.
> .



https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-the-hammer-and-the-dance-be9337092b56
Here's an interesting article on different outcomes based on different coronavirus strategies. 

I have the same discussion with my DH, who is all for just letting everyone die that's going to die.  As a physician, I disagree. Not only because I'm in the job to keep people healthy and alive, but because there will be wider ramifications.  Because it won't just be coronavirus victims.  It will also be almost anyone else that needed timely emergency care (heart attacks, strokes, trauma), ICU beds (the list is too long to begin), and even those who just need supportive care and may not get it because resources are limited. Those medical care workers who are overworked and under supplied will, guaranteed, also get sick, and some will die.  It takes almost a decade to train up new doctors and get them at least enough experience to be really good.  Nurses, slightly less time.  I've heard stats anywhere from 14-19% fatality for age 70 and older.  That is a HUGE chunk of the population that would disappear, assuming that most older people will eventually be exposed to the virus.  We could have 10's of millions of younger adults that survive, but with pulmonary fibrosis, needing medical care and possibly unable to work.  What will that do to our economy? 

So we have a huge recession/depression.  But our health care system survives more or less intact and our population is overall healthier with less long term problems.  And we've had time to develop a vaccine or treatment that controls the virus.

There are no good choices here.  Just less awful ones.


----------



## sayhello

aggiedog said:


> https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-the-hammer-and-the-dance-be9337092b56
> Here's an interesting article on different outcomes based on different coronavirus strategies.
> 
> I have the same discussion with my DH, who is all for just letting everyone die that's going to die.  As a physician, I disagree. Not only because I'm in the job to keep people healthy and alive, but because there will be wider ramifications.  Because it won't just be coronavirus victims.  It will also be almost anyone else that needed timely emergency care (heart attacks, strokes, trauma), ICU beds (the list is too long to begin), and even those who just need supportive care and may not get it because resources are limited. Those medical care workers who are overworked and under supplied will, guaranteed, also get sick, and some will die.  It takes almost a decade to train up new doctors and get them at least enough experience to be really good.  Nurses, slightly less time.  I've heard stats anywhere from 14-19% fatality for age 70 and older.  That is a HUGE chunk of the population that would disappear, assuming that most older people will eventually be exposed to the virus.  We could have 10's of millions of younger adults that survive, but with pulmonary fibrosis, needing medical care and possibly unable to work.  What will that do to our economy?
> 
> So we have a huge recession/depression.  But our health care system survives more or less intact and our population is overall healthier with less long term problems.  And we've had time to develop a vaccine or treatment that controls the virus.
> 
> There are no good choices here.  Just less awful ones.


I *SO* totally agree with this.  Not doing anything is *NOT* an option.  Just look at Italy, which just didn't do enough soon enough, and that should answer any speculation about doing nothing.

Sayhello


----------



## neurosx1983

sayhello said:


> I love ABD's trips.  I *adore* the Adventure Guides.  But somebody running the show is having some real issues.
> 
> Sayhello



Some old episodes of dis unplugged from like 10 years ago talk about major issues they used to have with ABD administrators...to the point where Dreams stopped selling the product. It almost seems like this current crisis has exposed that things at the top at ABD still have issues...


----------



## neurosx1983

sayhello said:


> I think people in the Medical profession, working to help folks in this time of crisis, should totally be given special consideration by ABD.  You are needed, and your sacrifices should be rewarded with consideration.
> 
> Sayhello



totally agree!

totally agree...as much as i would like


lovetotravel said:


> Delta continues to lead the way by waiving fees for May international flights. United and American are still until end of April.
> 
> https://www.delta.com/us/en/advisories/coronavirus-travel/cancel-change-requirementsDelta is waiving all change fees for travel impacted by coronavirus. This applies to all U.S. domestic and international travel departing in March or April 2020, *international flights departing in May 2020*, as well as all tickets purchased in March 2020.



I kind of wish airlines would go beyond waiving change fees to actually refunding...i know that’s probably a pipe dream though because it would totally wipe out airlines finances.

I now have ‘credits’ for two different airlines to use by the end of the year...who the heck knows what’s going to happen.


----------



## lovetotravel

neurosx1983 said:


> totally agree!
> 
> totally agree...as much as i would like
> 
> 
> I kind of wish airlines would go beyond waiving change fees to actually refunding...i know that’s probably a pipe dream though because it would totally wipe out airlines finances.
> 
> I now have ‘credits’ for two different airlines to use by the end of the year...who the heck knows what’s going to happen.


If you use the credits for smaller lower fare trips, the rest gets given back as a voucher that has 1 year of use from the time of voucher issue. At least this was the case for Delta. Just make sure you write the voucher down because it doesn't get emailed to you.


----------



## sayhello

lovetotravel said:


> If you use the credits for smaller lower fare trips, the rest gets given back as a voucher that has 1 year of use from the time of voucher issue. At least this was the case for Delta. Just make sure you write the voucher down because it doesn't get emailed to you.


Thanks for that info!  That's *really* good to know!

Sayhello


----------



## TXTransplant

United has now extended their no-fee-to-change policy through the end of May.

Unfortunately, everyone is overwhelmed with calls.  Most of my flights for our May/June trip are booked through Chase.  I called them on Saturday night, just to see what my options are (since we are booked on a multi-ticket, three-airline itinerary).  I hung up after waiting on hold for 50 minutes.  They really don't want to talk to anyone who isn't flying within the next 72 hours.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

TXTransplant said:


> United has now extended their no-fee-to-change policy through the end of May.
> 
> Unfortunately, everyone is overwhelmed with calls.  Most of my flights for our May/June trip are booked through Chase.  I called them on Saturday night, just to see what my options are (since we are booked on a multi-ticket, three-airline itinerary).  I hung up after waiting on hold for 50 minutes.  They really don't want to talk to anyone who isn't flying within the next 72 hours.


I have found the best time to call Chase is early morning. When I called last week at 7:05am I agreed to a call back and within 90 minutes I received the call from them. They take a long time to process a cancellation, which probably contributes to the long wait time.


----------



## TXTransplant

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I have found the best time to call Chase is early morning. When I called last week at 7:05am I agreed to a call back and within 90 minutes I received the call from them. They take a long time to process a cancellation, which probably contributes to the long wait time.



I wasn't even offered the option of a call back.  But I will try early morning one day this week.

I'm not in a huge rush because our first flight isn't until May 29.  But, it's to Seattle, and I really don't think we should go there at all.  So, I would have to cancel flights to Seattle and then on to Anchorage and rebook a flight straight to Anchorage.

And, even after all that, our trip might still be cancelled.

Gives me a headache even thinking about it.


----------



## acndis

So glad to hear the news about Chase.  We have been waiting for our refund for our canceled cruise flights for about two weeks (Chase canceled but still no refund).  We will try to get them in the morning.  Does anyone know, will they refund your points or will it be cash?  Points are the only thing that makes sense but it seems like it would not take this long.


----------



## sayhello

acndis said:


> So glad to hear the news about Chase.  We have been waiting for our refund for our canceled cruise flights for about two weeks (Chase canceled but still no refund).  We will try to get them in the morning.  Does anyone know, will they refund your points or will it be cash?  Points are the only thing that makes sense but it seems like it would not take this long.


Did you actually book your flights through Chase, or just use a Chase card?

Sayhello

*ETA* Oh, duh.  I see you used points.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

I’ve been trying to get ahold of Chase for a while—thanks for info and tips.


----------



## 2Gma

aggiedog said:


> https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-the-hammer-and-the-dance-be9337092b56



Everyone please read & share! A longish scientific read but really explains what we can expect in different scenarios & the weeks to come. I actually feel empowered having the right data. thanks so much for sharing!!


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

acndis said:


> So glad to hear the news about Chase.  We have been waiting for our refund for our canceled cruise flights for about two weeks (Chase canceled but still no refund).  We will try to get them in the morning.  Does anyone know, will they refund your points or will it be cash?  Points are the only thing that makes sense but it seems like it would not take this long.


If you used URs to book then your refund will be in URs.


----------



## dolewhipdreams

Kevin from Dreams just tweeted that all May ABDs have been cancelled.


----------



## susans

My May ABD Egypt trip is cancelled.  Now what to do about the airline tickets to Egypt...


----------



## Spencer Wright

Spencer Wright said:


> I am hoping on this thread now.  I have an ABD scheduled for May 16th (Hollywood/Disneyland), for which I am holding out hope.  I know its a dwindling chance, but you never know!



My trip was cancelled today by ABD due to coronavirus.  I am taking the refund and choosing not to reschedule at this time. I think when things settle down a little more I will reschedule.


----------



## Jess_S

For those bummed about being unable to travel now (all of us, I assume), Lindblad is doing virtual expeditions on their Facebook with travel videos and activities. I was feeling down today and the beautiful images from Costa Rica helped.


----------



## Theta

susans said:


> My May ABD Egypt trip is cancelled.  Now what to do about the airline tickets to Egypt...




Hold off cancelling your tickets.  If you cancel now, you will only get an ecredit.  Likely at least one of your legs will be cancelled or altered enough that warrants a full refund.  Be patient!


----------



## WishUponAStarryNight

Jess_S said:


> For those bummed about being unable to travel now (all of us, I assume), Lindblad is doing virtual expeditions on their Facebook with travel videos and activities. I was feeling down today and the beautiful images from Costa Rica helped.


Austin Adventures is starting a virtual adventures for kids webinar series at 2pm ET tomorrow.  Yellowstone is the first adventure.


----------



## E-Ticket

Well, we just cancelled our 2 back-to-back trips today. No flexibility, no coolness from Disney. No nothing. We get 50% back and Disney just gets to keep $17,000 of our money. Sure, we'll use our CFAR insurance to get some more back, but geesh, come on!

And Disney and British Airways are the only companies we did NOT receive ANY notice from during the coronavirus crisis. Heck, we got emails from hair salons, restaurants, and every travel company we ever used over the last 10 years! 

But here's the deal. We are done with Disney for travel. Period. We're going with Tauck and Universal now. You hearing that Disney execs? For us, Tauck is replacing ABD and Universal, your arch enemy, has our theme park business now. We've spent over $100,000 with you over the last 20 years. You are not getting another dime.

Sorry to rant. I'm mad, sad, and disappointed all at the same time.
Carry on...


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

E-Ticket said:


> Well, we just cancelled our 2 back-to-back trips today. No flexibility, no coolness from Disney. No nothing. We get 50% back and Disney just gets to keep $17,000 of our money. Sure, we'll use our CFAR insurance to get some more back, but geesh, come on!
> 
> And Disney and British Airways are the only companies we did NOT receive ANY notice from during the coronavirus crisis. Heck, we got emails from hair salons, restaurants, and every travel company we ever used over the last 10 years!
> 
> But here's the deal. We are done with Disney for travel. Period. We're going with Tauck and Universal now. You hearing that Disney execs? For us, Tauck is replacing ABD and Universal, your arch enemy, has our theme park business now. We've spent over $100,000 with you over the last 20 years. You are not getting another dime.
> 
> Sorry to rant. I'm mad, sad, and disappointed all at the same time.
> Carry on...


I totally get it. I'm super sad for you. My Disney expectations bar is pretty low, but its handing of this has been even worse than I expected. That is a ton of money to leave on the table. I hope your insurance comes through and you are able to recoup most of it. 

The number of emails I've received from companies has been ridiculous, and like you said, the ones that count .... crickets.


----------



## wdp

E-Ticket said:


> Well, we just cancelled our 2 back-to-back trips today. No flexibility, no coolness from Disney. No nothing. We get 50% back and Disney just gets to keep $17,000 of our money. Sure, we'll use our CFAR insurance to get some more back, but geesh, come on!
> 
> And Disney and British Airways are the only companies we did NOT receive ANY notice from during the coronavirus crisis. Heck, we got emails from hair salons, restaurants, and every travel company we ever used over the last 10 years!
> 
> But here's the deal. We are done with Disney for travel. Period. We're going with Tauck and Universal now. You hearing that Disney execs? For us, Tauck is replacing ABD and Universal, your arch enemy, has our theme park business now. We've spent over $100,000 with you over the last 20 years. You are not getting another dime.
> 
> Sorry to rant. I'm mad, sad, and disappointed all at the same time.
> Carry on...


What trips did you cancel? Were they to a highly impacted region?


----------



## Rapunzellover

wdp said:


> What trips did you cancel? Were they to a highly impacted region?



I wanna know this too.  E-Ticket, why did you cancel?  Should've waited for ABD to do it, so you get your $ back.  I could see if they were going and you felt uncomfortable,  but I honestly see no reason to cancel yourself a trip they probably will cancel?  I don't understand.


----------



## E-Ticket

Rapunzellover said:


> I wanna know this too.  E-Ticket, why did you cancel?  Should've waited for ABD to do it, so you get your $ back.  I could see if they were going and you felt uncomfortable,  but I honestly see no reason to cancel yourself a trip they probably will cancel?  I don't understand.


We cancelled Italy/Switzerland and Scotland. And, yes, I understand that they might cancel eventually.

The reason we cancelled is because our trips begin at the end of June. Based on Disney's poor approach and stringing everyone along IF they cancel it probably won't be until the end of April. And they may just try to do these trips, we just don't know. And we are most definitely not interested in going anywhere near Italy anytime soon. By using our CFAR insurance we'll lose about $9,000 on the whole trip (flights, etc.) and just be done with it and hopefully get our money back a bit sooner. The longer we wait and Disney doesn't cancel, the less money we get back, too. Our trips don't fall into the longer cancellation period - YET. They might eventually, who knows.

That's why I'm so angry, they're just going with the corporate line in the face of a historic pandemic. I expected more. If they let us cancel now and get our money back they would certainly get it back in spades over the next 20 years. We sent an email...crickets. Our TA talked to them...got nowhere. If Disney looked up our accounts for the last 20 years (as with most of you folks I'm sure) they would realize that we like Disney, we spend the vast majority of our travel dollars with them, and that we are REALLY GOOD customers. I guess that doesn't matter to Disney. Guess that's how they roll.

Of course, other folks are going through MUCH MUCH bigger problems than us. People are DYING. Losing a few grand is NOTHING compared to that. And to all you doctor folks on the front lines, you are HEROES. Truly. As I've said, right now heroes don't wear capes, they wear scrubs.

Thanks for listening to my TED TALK.


----------



## Skylarr29

E-Ticket said:


> We cancelled Italy/Switzerland and Scotland. And, yes, I understand that they might cancel eventually.
> 
> The reason we cancelled is because our trips begin at the end of June. Based on Disney's poor approach and stringing everyone along IF they cancel it probably won't be until the end of April. And they may just try to do these trips, we just don't know. And we are most definitely not interested in going anywhere near Italy anytime soon. By using our CFAR insurance we'll lose about $9,000 on the whole trip (flights, etc.) and just be done with it and hopefully get our money back a bit sooner. The longer we wait and Disney doesn't cancel, the less money we get back, too. Our trips don't fall into the longer cancellation period - YET. They might eventually, who knows.
> 
> That's why I'm so angry, they're just going with the corporate line in the face of a historic pandemic. I expected more. If they let us cancel now and get our money back they would certainly get it back in spades over the next 20 years. We sent an email...crickets. Our TA talked to them...got nowhere. If Disney looked up our accounts for the last 20 years (as with most of you folks I'm sure) they would realize that we like Disney, we spend the vast majority of our travel dollars with them, and that we are REALLY GOOD customers. I guess that doesn't matter to Disney. Guess that's how they roll.
> 
> Of course, other folks are going through MUCH MUCH bigger problems than us. People are DYING. Losing a few grand is NOTHING compared to that. And to all you doctor folks on the front lines, you are HEROES. Truly. As I've said, right now heroes don't wear capes, they wear scrubs.
> 
> Thanks for listening to my TED TALK.



We’re in a similar position. Our back to back trips are Southeast Asia and China. We’re just stuck in limbo. We can’t buy flights or get approved for visas even if we wanted to. If they don’t cancel by final payment we will have to move our deposits, which we can only do one time, and are then ineligible for any discounts, even if they later decide to cancel these trips. Not comfortable going anywhere near China currently. It’s definitely a frustrating situation.


----------



## neurosx1983

E-Ticket said:


> Well, we just cancelled our 2 back-to-back trips today. No flexibility, no coolness from Disney. No nothing. We get 50% back and Disney just gets to keep $17,000 of our money. Sure, we'll use our CFAR insurance to get some more back, but geesh, come on!
> 
> And Disney and British Airways are the only companies we did NOT receive ANY notice from during the coronavirus crisis. Heck, we got emails from hair salons, restaurants, and every travel company we ever used over the last 10 years!
> 
> But here's the deal. We are done with Disney for travel. Period. We're going with Tauck and Universal now. You hearing that Disney execs? For us, Tauck is replacing ABD and Universal, your arch enemy, has our theme park business now. We've spent over $100,000 with you over the last 20 years. You are not getting another dime.
> 
> Sorry to rant. I'm mad, sad, and disappointed all at the same time.
> Carry on...



I sincerely hope that someone at ABD has been reading this thread because we are the most loyal fanbase for ABD and a lot of us have completely lost our trust with them. Its so sad to see someone like @E-Ticket say that they are done with ABD after spending so much money over the last 20 years, but I think after this current crisis we all understand. 

BA is even worse, IMO. They won't waive my cancellation/change fees because I booked "before march 3"...so they're penalizing people that booked flights right before a global pandemic hit. Unbelievable.


----------



## TXTransplant

neurosx1983 said:


> I sincerely hope that someone at ABD has been reading this thread because we are the most loyal fanbase for ABD and a lot of us have completely lost our trust with them. Its so sad to see someone like @E-Ticket say that they are done with ABD after spending so much money over the last 20 years, but I think after this current crisis we all understand.
> 
> BA is even worse, IMO. They won't waive my cancellation/change fees because I booked "before march 3"...so they're penalizing people that booked flights right before a global pandemic hit. Unbelievable.



That policy has got to be the STUPIDEST one ever!  They are giving priority to people who (stupidly) booked tickets DURING a pandemic!  If anything, those are the people who shouldn't be getting their money back, knowing what risk they were taking!


----------



## Travelling135

E-Ticket said:


> We cancelled Italy/Switzerland and Scotland. And, yes, I understand that they might cancel eventually.
> 
> The reason we cancelled is because our trips begin at the end of June. Based on Disney's poor approach and stringing everyone along IF they cancel it probably won't be until the end of April. And they may just try to do these trips, we just don't know. And we are most definitely not interested in going anywhere near Italy anytime soon. By using our CFAR insurance we'll lose about $9,000 on the whole trip (flights, etc.) and just be done with it and hopefully get our money back a bit sooner. The longer we wait and Disney doesn't cancel, the less money we get back, too. Our trips don't fall into the longer cancellation period - YET. They might eventually, who knows.
> 
> That's why I'm so angry, they're just going with the corporate line in the face of a historic pandemic. I expected more. If they let us cancel now and get our money back they would certainly get it back in spades over the next 20 years. We sent an email...crickets. Our TA talked to them...got nowhere. If Disney looked up our accounts for the last 20 years (as with most of you folks I'm sure) they would realize that we like Disney, we spend the vast majority of our travel dollars with them, and that we are REALLY GOOD customers. I guess that doesn't matter to Disney. Guess that's how they roll.
> 
> Of course, other folks are going through MUCH MUCH bigger problems than us. People are DYING. Losing a few grand is NOTHING compared to that. And to all you doctor folks on the front lines, you are HEROES. Truly. As I've said, right now heroes don't wear capes, they wear scrubs.
> 
> Thanks for listening to my TED TALK.



I completely understand your decision. We were also booked in June and cancelled on our PIF date. We called ABD to see if PIF dates would be extended due to COVID and heard crickets. They acted like nothing was going on and said Coronavirus would not affect trips. Italy was starting and we were already hearing in Canada that doctors might not be allowed to travel if things became worse which meant we would not be able to go at all.

We have also spent a fortune with Disney between ABD, DCL, WDW. I wouldn’t even want to add it all up and we’re very disappointed with them. 

I’m extremely frustrated that they still have our deposits because we no longer trust them. Plus, the fact that we won’t qualify for a discount now - even though our original booking was done with an EBD - is terrible. We will probably just throw away our 4 deposits at this point.

I am still glad we cancelled earlier though rather than wait on the edge of our seats for them to finally do the right thing (or not). Plus, it worked out better for our airfare to cancel when we did.


----------



## sayhello

E-Ticket said:


> Of course, other folks are going through MUCH MUCH bigger problems than us. People are DYING. Losing a few grand is NOTHING compared to that. And to all you doctor folks on the front lines, you are HEROES. Truly. As I've said, right now heroes don't wear capes, they wear scrubs.
> 
> Thanks for listening to my TED TALK.


THIS.   I so agree with you.  We are SO SO indebted to the medical professionals of the world.  They are AMAZING.


TXTransplant said:


> That policy has got to be the STUPIDEST one ever!  They are giving priority to people who (stupidly) booked tickets DURING a pandemic!  If anything, those are the people who shouldn't be getting their money back, knowing what risk they were taking!


Not that I agree with it in any shape or form, but what I've read is they are doing this to encourage people who are currently considering travel in the near future to buy airfare because they know they can easily cancel/reschedule it.  They already *have* your money, so....

Sayhello


----------



## TXTransplant

sayhello said:


> THIS.   I so agree with you.  We are SO SO indebted to the medical professionals of the world.  They are AMAZING.
> Not that I agree with it in any shape or form, but what I've read is they are doing this to encourage people who are currently considering travel in the near future to buy airfare because they know they can easily cancel/reschedule it.  They already *have* your money, so....
> 
> Sayhello



Oh, I don't doubt it.  They are all doing everything they can to stay liquid.  But considering how ~much~ money I already have tied up in travel that IDK will even happen, I'm not giving any of these companies another dime right now!


----------



## neurosx1983

So what are you guys doing about deposits you have for ABD's several months from now?
We have the Christmas market Danube cruise on hold for this December. I'm almost certain we aren't going on that because I don't feel comfortable going to Europe this year. Period. Even if things get better by then which I hope to god they do.
We are planning on moving the deposit to something in 2021 when new schedules come out in May. On that note, I wonder if anything new in May will come out to begin with.


----------



## lovetotravel

neurosx1983 said:


> So what are you guys doing about deposits you have for ABD's several months from now?
> We have the Christmas market Danube cruise on hold for this December. I'm almost certain we aren't going on that because I don't feel comfortable going to Europe this year. Period. Even if things get better by then which I hope to god they do.
> We are planning on moving the deposit to something in 2021 when new schedules come out in May. On that note, I wonder if anything new in May will come out to begin with.


If you move the deposit, don't you loose the EBD?


----------



## vakamalua

neurosx1983 said:


> So what are you guys doing about deposits you have for ABD's several months from now?
> We have the Christmas market Danube cruise on hold for this December. I'm almost certain we aren't going on that because I don't feel comfortable going to Europe this year. Period. Even if things get better by then which I hope to god they do.
> We are planning on moving the deposit to something in 2021 when new schedules come out in May. On that note, I wonder if anything new in May will come out to begin with.



We're in this position too.  We have an Italy/Switzerland booked for September but won't feel comfortable going to Italy (or all of Europe) anytime this year.  Our PIF date is in early May but we don't intend to pay it.

--Will we be able to move the deposit to next year even if trips haven't been announced?  Are they letting all trips this year move the deposit to next year?
--Can someone explain the DVC pricing thing to me?  Do you ALWAYS get opening day pricing whenever you book--would we get opening day pricing for the trip we would eventually pick for next year?


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

neurosx1983 said:


> So what are you guys doing about deposits you have for ABD's several months from now?
> We have the Christmas market Danube cruise on hold for this December. I'm almost certain we aren't going on that because I don't feel comfortable going to Europe this year. Period. Even if things get better by then which I hope to god they do.
> We are planning on moving the deposit to something in 2021 when new schedules come out in May. On that note, I wonder if anything new in May will come out to begin with.


I have booked Egypt booked for October and definitely don't feel comfortable traveling there this year. We will use our deposit as a placeholder for a 2021 trip unless they offer a refund.


----------



## neurosx1983

vakamalua said:


> We're in this position too.  We have an Italy/Switzerland booked for September but won't feel comfortable going to Italy (or all of Europe) anytime this year.  Our PIF date is in early May but we don't intend to pay it.
> 
> --Will we be able to move the deposit to next year even if trips haven't been announced?  Are they letting all trips this year move the deposit to next year?
> --Can someone explain the DVC pricing thing to me?  Do you ALWAYS get opening day pricing whenever you book--would we get opening day pricing for the trip we would eventually pick for next year?



My TA at dreams is planning on moving the danube deposit to something in 2021, maybe Egypt. From my understanding you can only move it once, but given everything that's happened I'm not sure if they will revisit that policy.

Yes I believe DVC always gets opening day pricing.


----------



## ohmyminnie

We are on the Egypt ABD in October.  I am thinking of moving the deposit to a trip in 2021 since I won't be comfortable traveling in the fall.  I already had ABD Air Department do our flights.  Does anyone know what will happen with those?


----------



## DisneyWishes14

WishUponAStarryNight said:


> Austin Adventures is starting a virtual adventures for kids webinar series at 2pm ET tomorrow.  Yellowstone is the first adventure.



Thanks for posting this info!  I signed my DS12 up for the webinar and it was excellent!  The woman who ran it (Kasey, who I believe is the Director of the company) mentioned there were thousands of participants!  It was very well done.  Austin Adventures is now on my radar for a future trip!


----------



## pistonfan32

neurosx1983 said:


> So what are you guys doing about deposits you have for ABD's several months from now?
> We have the Christmas market Danube cruise on hold for this December. I'm almost certain we aren't going on that because I don't feel comfortable going to Europe this year. Period. Even if things get better by then which I hope to god they do.
> We are planning on moving the deposit to something in 2021 when new schedules come out in May. On that note, I wonder if anything new in May will come out to begin with.



We are booked on Italy/Switzerland for 7/31/20. We have no intention of paying the balance (PIF). I fully expect that Disney will eventually these trips either for health reasons or because there will be  so few customers on the trip.

We can’t travel overseas in 2021so I have no interest in using the deposit in 2021.

We also have 3 round trip first class seats on Delta. If they don’t cancel our flights, then we will cancel and pay the penalty. 

Yes, I do believe Disney has handled this horribly and has been way too silent. I am not going to go crazy about it because there are likely a lot that we don’t know.

I work in a Michigan school district and the state has been so slow in giving guidance for staff, parents and students. That’s a real world problem that’s affecting millions of children.


----------



## WishUponAStarryNight

DisneyWishes14 said:


> Thanks for posting this info!  I signed my DS12 up for the webinar and it was excellent!  The woman who ran it (Kasey, who I believe is the Director of the company) mentioned there were thousands of participants!  It was very well done.  Austin Adventures is now on my radar for a future trip!


Glad you enjoyed it! Alaska is up next.

We’ve done 2 trips with them - highly recommend.  It’s a family-owned company and Kasey is beginning to take over the reins from her dad.  Our Yellowstone trip with AA was magical.


----------



## TXTransplant

2.5 hours on hold with Chase yesterday only to be disconnected without ever speaking to someone.  Thankfully, I can just put my phone on speaker and let it sit while I work.

Actually got someone this morning after about 30 min on hold, but I could barely hear/understand the guy, and now he's put me back on hold again (without giving me any useful information).

Edited to add:  I finally got through.  Here is how they are handling vouchers/credits.

Chase is not giving any refunds of rewards points.

For the trips booked on points, I get vouchers on United and Delta for the $ value of the flights at the time I booked.

New reservations must be made by Dec. 31.

If the new flights that I book cost less, I forfeit the difference.

Each voucher includes two tickets (my son was booked with me). If I try to rebook a ticket just for myself, I forfeit his half of the credit. So, if I try to use a $400 credit, I can only use $200 if it to book my ticket.

Alaska Airlines policy is a little different. I get a voucher for the $ of the flights, but I have to travel by Feb 2021 (At least I think that's what I was told. The connection was bad, and I could barely understand the guy I was talking to).

Also, none of the cancellations or rebookings can be done online. I have to call Chase anytime I want to change something or use the voucher.


----------



## TXTransplant

Second update:  called my expedition manager at Nat Geo this morning.  Like ABD, they have cancelled all trips through May (they are just notifying travelers who are affected as they are affected, rather than sending out mass emails).  He said they are trying to give travelers at least 5 weeks notice about cancellations.  He was super nice and forthcoming with information.  I don't get the impression at all that they are trying to put people off, and I have no issue with the fact that, at least for now, our trip is still scheduled to go.

He also confirmed I will get a full refund if they cancel.  As much as I would love to rebook, we would not be able to do so this year, and I'm not going to leave $14k tied up for the next 12+ months.

Alaska has a mandatory 14 day quarantine for all incoming visitors that went into effect a few days ago, and our trip would not proceed if that's extended to a point where it would affect the trip.

Overall, it was a good/helpful conversation and affirms my decision to leave my plane tickets as-is for another month or so.


----------



## SingingMom

What are your thoughts about traveling to Italy this October?


----------



## Networth

SingingMom said:


> What are your thoughts about traveling to Italy this October?



I would suggest against it.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Update on my attempt to file a dispute against Scott Dunn with Chase. Called a few days ago and got through after a minimal wait. Spoke at length with the CSR -- she kept asking when I cancelled the trip. I told her that I hadn't cancelled the trip yet because the PIF has been moved to April 24th. I am not sure if she understood what I was saying -- she wasn't much help. After trying to talk with her for almost 15 minutes, I told her that I would wait until I speak with Scott Dunn around April 24th to file a dispute (if they don't cancel and offer a refund I will cancel at that point). She agreed that was a better idea (to wait until I've cancelled) and we disconnected the call. Yesterday I got a notice from Chase in the mail that said that my dispute with Scott Dunn has been resolved and I agreed that the charge was valid . Umm, I asked that they not open a dispute. I hope this won't affect my future chance at filing a claim again Scott Dunn. So frustrating.


----------



## kaseyC

neurosx1983 said:


> My TA at dreams is planning on moving the danube deposit to something in 2021, maybe Egypt. *From my understanding you can only move it once,* but given everything that's happened I'm not sure if they will revisit that policy.
> 
> Yes I believe DVC always gets opening day pricing.



That policy has us kind of stuck unless we just choose to forfeit our deposit by canceling by final payment in May.  Our September Rhine ABD was booked using a deposit moved from an Egypt trip we decided to cancel.  You would think they would at least consider relaxing the "move only once" policy for a short time.  At least, that way many of us would move to other dates and/or itineraries.  With the way things are looking I would be surprised if the an early September Rhine cruise happens.  So I'm going to just wait it out at least until final payment and decide whether to cancel.


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## Grifdog22

Be careful when they cancel your trip and move the deposit (or PIF) about what they promise - even if it is in writing (especially pre-trips).  

We watched the first episode of "The Imagineering Story" directed by Leslie Iwerks (Granddaughter of Ub Iwerks who worked with Walt Disney really from the beginning) on Disney + last night.  As we heard Walt talk about values, keeping promises and doing the right thing as a long term business model, and how the money they needed always just came about (barely but it did) We usually move on things pretty carefully and thoughtfully but the more I look at this the more I don't like what I see with current management.  It's time to vote with the wallet and pocketbook.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

So now WDW and DL are closed until further notice and CA is under stay-at-home orders until further notice.  My SoCal/DL PIF is in late April, a little more than 3 weeks from now.  Is ABD really going to make me PIF if DL is still closed and CA is still under a stay-at-home order?!  Ugh.  I guess I can always move the deposit, but then I won't qualify for discounts.


----------



## aggiedog

I don't have any trips with ABD though I did have $1,800 worth of parked deposit we had to forfeit a year ago.  I have never put any money down with a variety of other travel companies, though have requested info from them in the past, so they have my email.  Now I'm getting emails daily from these companies discussing their updated cancelation policies, webinars about travel and interesting places, good websites to fix the travel itch, even movie recommendations about travel and interesting travel backgrounds to use for Zoom conferences.  Nothing from ABD.  Not that I was expecting it, but I'm impressed with what these other companies have put out.  It looks less and less like I'll ever use ABD due to it's conspicuous absence of customer service.

I'll admit at this point I just like this board since it's full of likeminded travelers.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

aggiedog said:


> I don't have any trips with ABD though I did have $1,800 worth of parked deposit we had to forfeit a year ago.  I have never put any money down with a variety of other travel companies, though have requested info from them in the past, so they have my email.  Now I'm getting emails daily from these companies discussing their updated cancelation policies, webinars about travel and interesting places, good websites to fix the travel itch, even movie recommendations about travel and interesting travel backgrounds to use for Zoom conferences.  Nothing from ABD.  Not that I was expecting it, but I'm impressed with what these other companies have put out.  It looks less and less like I'll ever use ABD due to it's conspicuous absence of customer service.
> 
> I'll admit at this point I just like this board since it's full of likeminded travelers.



I was thinking the same thing!!  I have received e-mails from Tauck and Lindblad with beautiful videos and my DS12 participated in an Austin Adventures program (thanks to a post on these boards!) which was, basically, an hour-long, in-depth lesson about Yellowstone, which was excellent and completely convinced both of us to very seriously consider booking a trip with them (great marketing!) Literally, crickets from ABD.  The folks at Disney are masters of creating content and marketing their products.  I am shocked they haven't done anything.  They are certainly blowing an opportunity to keep people interested in traveling with them.


----------



## Rapunzellover

DisneyWishes14 said:


> So now WDW and DL are closed until further notice and CA is under stay-at-home orders until further notice.  My SoCal/DL PIF is in late April, a little more than 3 weeks from now.  Is ABD really going to make me PIF if DL is still closed and CA is still under a stay-at-home order?!  Ugh.  I guess I can always move the deposit, but then I won't qualify for discounts.



When is your trip?  I'm in CA and I don't see any CA travel until August earliest.  It's getting bad, especially down South.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

Rapunzellover said:


> When is your trip?  I'm in CA and I don't see any CA travel until August earliest.  It's getting bad, especially down South.



It’s in mid-July.  I guess I’ll keep watching and waiting to see if they change the PIF dates again.  Otherwise, I’ll probably park the deposit.


----------



## Rapunzellover

DisneyWishes14 said:


> It’s in mid-July.  I guess I’ll keep watching and waiting to see if they change the PIF dates again.  Otherwise, I’ll probably park the deposit.



I hope it works out.  But mid July seems a little early to me, as it's seeming pretty certain the stay at home order won't be up till probably June.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Yet another update on our trip scheduled for May with Scott Dunn. They sent out a general e-mail yesterday updating customers about the situation and I decided to respond. Within 30 minutes I had a call from a gentleman who purported himself to be a senior executive at the company. He said he wanted to field a call to see what his staff has been dealing with. After explaining our plight to him and having a conversation about this unprecedented situation, he told me that they won't be issuing a refund. He explained the reasons to me and I feel that they are valid. He agreed that he will allow us to use the deposit for another trip (doesn't have to be Russia and Norway, though it most likely will be, but without the cruise) that they offer before the end of next summer. This is fine by me. I now have to attempt to reach my travel insurance company and have them place our insurance on "hold" (they are letting people move the insurance they purchased to another trip) until we book something (likely in January). The gentleman sent me an e-mail re-capping our conversation so I have everything in writing. He also said that we should consider our trip cancelled at this point (not that I thought there was any chance that it was going to go).  Interestingly I went on their website and noticed that they offer New Zealand, which could be a contender. Ultimately it is up to dd to decide the destination and at this point she really wants to see Russia. Maybe we'll add Moscow to the itinerary and take the train from Moscow to St. Petersburg, then hop over to Norway. One thing is for certain -- I have _plenty_ of time to plan.


----------



## sayhello

So sorry to post something "off topic" here, but I just had to share a Feel Good moment.  I just got the following text from the young couple who live next door:  "Hey, Sayhello, we left dinner on your front porch. ... you can just pay it forward. Have a great night!"  SO SWEET!!  Amidst all the craziness, people do frequently renew my faith in Human Kind.   





Sayhello


----------



## Rapunzellover

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> Yet another update on our trip scheduled for May with Scott Dunn. They sent out a general e-mail yesterday updating customers about the situation and I decided to respond. Within 30 minutes I had a call from a gentleman who purported himself to be a senior executive at the company. He said he wanted to field a call to see what his staff has been dealing with. After explaining our plight to him and having a conversation about this unprecedented situation, he told me that they won't be issuing a refund. He explained the reasons to me and I feel that they are valid. He agreed that he will allow us to use the deposit for another trip (doesn't have to be Russia and Norway, though it most likely will be, but without the cruise) that they offer before the end of next summer. This is fine by me. I now have to attempt to reach my travel insurance company and have them place our insurance on "hold" (they are letting people move the insurance they purchased to another trip) until we book something (likely in January). The gentleman sent me an e-mail re-capping our conversation so I have everything in writing. He also said that we should consider our trip cancelled at this point (not that I thought there was any chance that it was going to go).  Interestingly I went on their website and noticed that they offer New Zealand, which could be a contender. Ultimately it is up to dd to decide the destination and at this point she really wants to see Russia. Maybe we'll add Moscow to the itinerary and take the train from Moscow to St. Petersburg, then hop over to Norway. One thing is for certain -- I have _plenty_ of time to plan.



So you are not out any money?  That's about the best to hope for at this point.


----------



## aggiedog

So nice of them!  Those unexpected acts of kindness are the best.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Rapunzellover said:


> So you are not out any money?  That's about the best to hope for at this point.


They will apply my deposit to our trip next year, so not out any money. If they end up going bankrupt my travel insurance would cover the lost deposit (as long as this clause still applies once I 'move' the insurance).


----------



## Rapunzellover

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> They will apply my deposit to our trip next year, so not out any money. If they end up going bankrupt my travel insurance would cover the lost deposit (as long as this clause still applies once I 'move' the insurance).



Glad to hear this, and hope you still have that clause once you move insurance.   This company sounds horrid to deal with though, and I'd definitely never book with them again.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Rapunzellover said:


> Glad to hear this, and hope you still have that clause once you move insurance.   This company sounds horrid to deal with though, and I'd definitely never book with them again.


I agree with you. Their terms and conditions clearly say that if they cancel the trip I get a full refund. They are canceling and are now saying they are only offering a postponement. The reason I was given is that they simply can't afford to refund money for canceled trips -- if they did they would go out of business. I don't feel that it is my responsibility to contribute to their liquidity to keep them afloat. However dd and I will definitely take a trip next year, so if I can apply my deposit with them to another trip then I don't lose the money. One thing I don't like is how cagey they are being -- I was told on the phone to consider my trip canceled, however the e-mail I received did not reference them canceling the trip (perhaps making it harder to file a claim with Chase if I change my mind and decide to file).

_Thank you for taking my call today. Sorry to be talking to you for the first time, under such terrible circumstances.

To confirm for xxx Cc’d, I have explained that we will postpone your trip to a time when you can make the trip work. If you choose to go to Russia we are happy to amend the length or trip or whatever needs doing, to make it work and apply the monies already paid, toward the new balance cost. Ideally these new dates would be within 12 months, but we will push that out a little further to catch May / June 2021.

If you choose to travel somewhere else in the Scott Dunn portfolio, we will allow this amount to go toward that alternative trip.

We will reach out to you again, once we know travel is back to normal._


----------



## DisneyWishes14

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I agree with you. *Their terms and conditions clearly say that if they cancel the trip I get a full refund. They are canceling and are now saying they are only offering a postponement. The reason I was given is that they simply can't afford to refund money for canceled trips -- if they did they would go out of business.* I don't feel that it is my responsibility to contribute to their liquidity to keep them afloat. However dd and I will definitely take a trip next year, so if I can apply my deposit with them to another trip then I don't lose the money. One thing I don't like is how cagey they are being -- I was told on the phone to consider my trip canceled, however the e-mail I received did not reference them canceling the trip (perhaps making it harder to file a claim with Chase if I change my mind and decide to file).
> 
> _Thank you for taking my call today. Sorry to be talking to you for the first time, under such terrible circumstances.
> 
> To confirm for xxx Cc’d, I have explained that we will postpone your trip to a time when you can make the trip work. If you choose to go to Russia we are happy to amend the length or trip or whatever needs doing, to make it work and apply the monies already paid, toward the new balance cost. Ideally these new dates would be within 12 months, but we will push that out a little further to catch May / June 2021.
> 
> If you choose to travel somewhere else in the Scott Dunn portfolio, we will allow this amount to go toward that alternative trip.
> 
> We will reach out to you again, once we know travel is back to normal._



omg.  I would be afraid they are going to file for bankruptcy.  No, it's not your responsibility to keep them afloat.  wow.


----------



## sayhello

DisneyWishes14 said:


> omg.  I would be afraid they are going to file for bankruptcy.  No, it's not your responsibility to keep them afloat.  wow.


Well, honestly, if they go out of business, she may be able to file a claim with her trip insurance, depending on the policy, because your trip provider going out of business *is* generally a covered reason.

Sayhello


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

sayhello said:


> Well, honestly, if they go out of business, she may be able to file a claim with her trip insurance, depending on the policy, because your trip provider going out of business *is* generally a covered reason.
> 
> Sayhello


Correct, if they go bankrupt my deposit is covered under my trip insurance. I made sure of that when I purchased the policy (which was shortly after Thomas Cook went under).


----------



## kaseyC

Looks like a temporary change in the deposit/refund policy for new bookings.  I saw this on one of ABD FB groups posted by a TA.  Ticks me off a bit since those of us who have trips already booked are not being offered any form of courtesy.  

*For all new Adventures by Disney bookings made between March 12, 2020 and June 30, 2020, the new reservation is eligible to be cancelled at any date prior to the established Final Payment date and if cancelled prior to this date, will receive a FULL refund INCLUDING the deposit. These NEW bookings made will not fall under the typical 14 day deposit policy.*


----------



## sayhello

kaseyC said:


> Looks like a temporary change in the deposit/refund policy for new bookings.  I saw this on one of ABD FB groups posted by a TA.  Ticks me off a bit since those of us who have trips already booked are not being offered any form of courtesy.
> 
> *For all new Adventures by Disney bookings made between March 12, 2020 and June 30, 2020, the new reservation is eligible to be cancelled at any date prior to the established Final Payment date and if cancelled prior to this date, will receive a FULL refund INCLUDING the deposit. These NEW bookings made will not fall under the typical 14 day deposit policy.*


That's because they want *MORE* cash!  They already have yours!

Sayhello


----------



## Rapunzellover

sayhello said:


> That's because they want *MORE* cash!  They already have yours!
> 
> Sayhello



This seriously makes me wonder if ABD is hurting for cash.


----------



## disdel

kaseyC said:


> Looks like a temporary change in the deposit/refund policy for new bookings.  I saw this on one of ABD FB groups posted by a TA.  Ticks me off a bit since those of us who have trips already booked are not being offered any form of courtesy.
> 
> *For all new Adventures by Disney bookings made between March 12, 2020 and June 30, 2020, the new reservation is eligible to be cancelled at any date prior to the established Final Payment date and if cancelled prior to this date, will receive a FULL refund INCLUDING the deposit. These NEW bookings made will not fall under the typical 14 day deposit policy.*


Wow, talk about tone-deaf.  
Way to run a great product into the ground, Chapek. 
I've been holding on for them to cancel our Sept. Danube sailing. Seriously doubt they will before the PIF, so I will at the very least take our one-time move. So far, all I've been told is I can move it, but only as far as next March. If they won't let me use it maybe next August, then I'll cancel, lose the deposit, and be done with ABD.


----------



## sayhello

Rapunzellover said:


> This seriously makes me wonder if ABD is hurting for cash.


Yes, and it's not like there's this huge corporation to bail them out if they wanted to.  They need our money to stay afloat.

Sayhello


----------



## Rapunzellover

sayhello said:


> Yes, and it's not like there's this huge corporation to bail them out if they wanted to.  They need our money to stay afloat.
> 
> Sayhello



This is what ticks me off most.  I get a company like Scott Dunn trying to stave off bankruptcy by nickel and diming customers,  but the Mouse House should be the last company worrying about its future.  The huge corps should be most generous and understanding.


----------



## aggiedog

With WDW, WDL closed, I bet they are hemorrhaging cash.  Even by furloughing most CM's, they can't have that much money just sitting around. Don't you think their business assumes at least some sort of positive flow of money?

Though, there is Disney+, which is surely even busier with everyone at home.


----------



## Rapunzellover

aggiedog said:


> With WDW, WDL closed, I bet they are hemorrhaging cash.  Even by furloughing most CM's, they can't have that much money just sitting around. Don't you think their business assumes at least some sort of positive flow of money?
> 
> Though, there is Disney+, which is surely even busier with everyone at home.



The notion that Disney could possibly be in a zero or negative cash flow situation is ridiculous.  They are  still making absurd amounts of money from merchandise, intellectual property rights, movie and TV licensing, etc.  In addition to Disney+.  They cannot possibly be in dire need of money.  

We're talking about a corporation that made billions on Avengers Endgame alone.  They are not desperate.   If they are, that's insanely gross mismanagement, or outright financial chicanery.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

kaseyC said:


> Looks like a temporary change in the deposit/refund policy for new bookings.  I saw this on one of ABD FB groups posted by a TA.  Ticks me off a bit since those of us who have trips already booked are not being offered any form of courtesy.
> 
> *For all new Adventures by Disney bookings made between March 12, 2020 and June 30, 2020, the new reservation is eligible to be cancelled at any date prior to the established Final Payment date and if cancelled prior to this date, will receive a FULL refund INCLUDING the deposit. These NEW bookings made will not fall under the typical 14 day deposit policy.*



Wow.  As a guest with two deposits down that are now non-refundable, this certainly doesn't make me feel like a very, valued customer.  The whole ABD situation, right now, just makes me sad.  I've been on one ABD and it was very enjoyable and the guides were excellent, but it feels as if the smiles were all just fake at this point.  Underneath the surface, I don't think ABD cares about its customers at all.  I don't mean this as a reflection on the guides - it just seems management isn't backing up the sentiment that is portrayed by them on the trips.


----------



## TravelJunkieHubby

I just saw the governor of Virginia ordered everyone to stay home until June 10.  How long do you guys think it will take ABD to start cancelling the June trips?


----------



## neurosx1983

Just speculating based on WDW letting people book stays after June 1 that ABD probably doesn't want to cancel June unless mandatory. i.e. they'll wait until stuff hits the fan like they did in March.


----------



## sayhello

TravelJunkieHubby said:


> I just saw the governor of Virginia ordered everyone to stay home until June 10.  How long do you guys think it will take ABD to start cancelling the June trips?


Seeing as ABD doesn't have any trips to Virginia (although Washington DC is close!  But those trips don't start until June 14) my guess is this won't affect anything.  If they have anyone from Virginia booked on a trip between June 1 - 10, they'll probably just deal with that directly.

Sayhello


----------



## neurosx1983

Nice to hear Pete ranting about ABD's poor response to COVID on the DIS unplugged show today!


----------



## WishUponAStarryNight

neurosx1983 said:


> Nice to hear Pete ranting about ABD's poor response to COVID on the DIS unplugged show today!


I just watched and @WebmasterJohn mentioned that full refunds are available on trips through June 30. I don’t see this on the website. Anyone else hear about this?


----------



## Dis87ney

WishUponAStarryNight said:


> I just watched and @WebmasterJohn mentioned that full refunds are available on trips through June 30. I don’t see this on the website. Anyone else hear about this?



just watched and heard the same...I’ll be calling to find out for sure!!


----------



## Dis87ney

I think he may have meant “Any new bookings made on future trips through the end of June, 2020 will be subject to fully refundable deposits up until the final payment date.” So it would be for new bookings only...


----------



## WishUponAStarryNight

Dis87ney said:


> I think he may have meant “Any new bookings made on future trips through the end of June, 2020 will be subject to fully refundable deposits up until the final payment date.” So it would be for new bookings only...


You may be right...sigh. But was I hearing things or did you hear it the way I did?


----------



## Dis87ney

WishUponAStarryNight said:


> You may be right...sigh. But was I hearing things or did you hear it the way I did?


At first I heard it the same way, but Pete asked him again about deposits being refundable a few minutes later and he said yes for travel by June 30. So I checked on the website and it’s for the new bookings. I wish that all I had to lose at this point was a deposit...I PIF on feb 20th for my June adventure in Italy  I just want my money back


----------



## debraW76

Dis87ney said:


> At first I heard it the same way, but Pete asked him again about deposits being refundable a few minutes later and he said yes for travel by June 30. So I checked on the website and it’s for the new bookings. I wish that all I had to lose at this point was a deposit...I PIF on feb 20th for my June adventure in Italy  I just want my money back


We were on the June 2 Italy trip.  Was that your trip too?


----------



## Dis87ney

debraW76 said:


> We were on the June 2 Italy trip.  Was that your trip too?


June 19th 
Our wedding was June 6th but we’ve now needed to postpone it 
Have you canceled your trip?


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Quark called me yesterday to see if I wanted to re-schedule our June 6th cruise. I told the CSR that my plan is to get my money back when they cancel. I asked if they have canceled their May, 2020 voyages and she told me that they are still scheduled to sail. She said management hasn't cancelled them yet, even though they depart from Oslo, Norway. I then checked the terms and conditions on their website and they have changed them to include wording for pandemics and that if they have to cancel they have the right to offer a credit for future travels (no refund). When I checked the terms and conditions on my booking, it is a link to a webpage on their site, which has been removed. Another lesson learned, print terms and conditions when they are not written out in full on a travel booking. They clearly changed them and the link to the T&Cs on my booking have been removed. I will have to wait until early May to see how they are going to handle my June 6th cruise.


----------



## debraW76

Dis87ney said:


> June 19th
> Our wedding was June 6th but we’ve now needed to postpone it
> Have you canceled your trip?


We haven’t cancelled yet.  I am waiting to see if ABD cancels first and to see if they offer any accommodations.  We PIF in February and I hate to lose all that money.  We could really use the cash now as I will most likely be furloughed soon.  We may be forced to just take the 75% and lose a few thousand.  
sorry about your wedding being postponed. That must be disappointing for you.   I have friends that got married at the courthouse and are just postponing their ceremony and reception.   Have you cancelled your trip too?


----------



## DisneyWishes14

I just saw this morning that the US has stopped issuing passports unless it's a life-or-death emergency.  I'm assuming "I couldn't get a passport" still won't fly with ABD to get a refund on a deposit or PIF?

https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/News/passports/passport-covid-19.html
If this isn't a huge red flag to companies signaling they shouldn't be planning international travel for the next 3 - 4 months, I don't know what is.


----------



## sayhello

DisneyWishes14 said:


> I just saw this morning that the US has stopped issuing passports unless it's a life-or-death emergency.  I'm assuming "I couldn't get a passport" still won't fly with ABD to get a refund on a deposit or PIF?
> 
> https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/News/passports/passport-covid-19.html
> If this isn't a huge red flag to companies signaling they shouldn't be planning international travel for the next 3 - 4 months, I don't know what is.


I doubt it would be accepted as a refund reason.  They don't offer refunds for the China trip if you're unable to get a Visa. 

I'm not sure how much of a red flag this is.  The issue is they are actually closing offices and reducing active staff for social distancing.  They aren't stopping issuing passports to keep people from traveling internationally.

Sayhello


----------



## Dis87ney

debraW76 said:


> We haven’t cancelled yet.  I am waiting to see if ABD cancels first and to see if they offer any accommodations.  We PIF in February and I hate to lose all that money.  We could really use the cash now as I will most likely be furloughed soon.  We may be forced to just take the 75% and lose a few thousand.
> sorry about your wedding being postponed. That must be disappointing for you.   I have friends that got married at the courthouse and are just postponing their ceremony and reception.   Have you cancelled your trip too?


 
I'm waiting for them to cancel...we didn't get the insurance so I may loose everything if they don't (and paid in CAD...so it cost about 3K more than in US...). I can't fathom loosing that much money on top of needing to push my wedding out a year. I'm emotional to say the least!


----------



## DisneyWishes14

sayhello said:


> I doubt it would be accepted as a refund reason.  They don't offer refunds for the China trip if you're unable to get a Visa.
> 
> I'm not sure how much of a red flag this is.  The issue is they are actually closing offices and reducing active staff for social distancing.  *They aren't stopping issuing passports to keep people from traveling internationally.*
> 
> Sayhello



I must be misunderstanding this.  It sounds like they are only issuing new passports for life-and-death emergencies:

*Change in Passport Services Operations                              *

Due to public health measures to limit the spread of COVID-19, effective March 20, 2020, we are only able to offer service for customers with a qualified life-or-death emergency and who need a passport for immediate international travel within 72 hours.

Life-or-death emergencies are serious illnesses, injuries, or deaths in your immediate family (e.g. parent, child, spouse, sibling, aunt, uncle, etc) that require you to travel outside the United States* within 72 hours (3 days)*. You must provide:


A passport application with supporting documents
Proof of the life-or-death emergency such as a death certificate, a statement from a mortuary, or a signed letter from a hospital or medical professional. Documents must be translated or in English.
Proof of international travel (e.g. reservation, ticket, itinerary)
To make an appointment at a passport agency or center for a life-or-death emergency, you must call our National Passport Information Center at 1-877-487-2778 (1-888-874-7793 TDD/TTY) on Monday- Friday, 8:00am to 5:00pm Eastern Time, except federal holidays or on Saturdays, 10:00 am to 3:00 pm Eastern Time. Call 202-647-4000 outside of these hours to make an appointment. 

If you applied and requested expedited service on or before March 19, 2020, we will honor our commitment of 2-3 weeks door-to-door for expedited service. If you applied in-person at a passport agency or center on or before March 19, 2020, the passport agency or center will contact you and ask if you want to pick-up your passport in person or have it mailed to you.


----------



## sayhello

DisneyWishes14 said:


> I must be misunderstanding this.  It sounds like they are only issuing new passports for life-and-death emergencies:
> 
> *Change in Passport Services Operations                              *
> 
> Due to public health measures to limit the spread of COVID-19, effective March 20, 2020, we are only able to offer service for customers with a qualified life-or-death emergency and who need a passport for immediate international travel within 72 hours.
> 
> Life-or-death emergencies are serious illnesses, injuries, or deaths in your immediate family (e.g. parent, child, spouse, sibling, aunt, uncle, etc) that require you to travel outside the United States* within 72 hours (3 days)*. You must provide:
> 
> 
> A passport application with supporting documents
> Proof of the life-or-death emergency such as a death certificate, a statement from a mortuary, or a signed letter from a hospital or medical professional. Documents must be translated or in English.
> Proof of international travel (e.g. reservation, ticket, itinerary)
> To make an appointment at a passport agency or center for a life-or-death emergency, you must call our National Passport Information Center at 1-877-487-2778 (1-888-874-7793 TDD/TTY) on Monday- Friday, 8:00am to 5:00pm Eastern Time, except federal holidays or on Saturdays, 10:00 am to 3:00 pm Eastern Time. Call 202-647-4000 outside of these hours to make an appointment.
> 
> If you applied and requested expedited service on or before March 19, 2020, we will honor our commitment of 2-3 weeks door-to-door for expedited service. If you applied in-person at a passport agency or center on or before March 19, 2020, the passport agency or center will contact you and ask if you want to pick-up your passport in person or have it mailed to you.


 That's not how I interpreted that.   Because of the limited number of people working in their offices, they are only processing applications for emergencies.  They apparently concluded since people aren't supposed to be traveling internationally anyways, that the passport office was not an essential business except for emergencies.  The bolding in italics below is mine


> *Change in Passport Services Operations
> 
> Due to public health measures to limit the spread of COVID-19, *effective March 20, 2020, we are only able to offer service for customers with a qualified life-or-death emergency and who need a passport for immediate international travel within 72 hours.





> If you applied and requested expedited service on or before March 19, 2020, we will honor our commitment of 2-3 weeks door-to-door for expedited service. If you applied in-person at a passport agency or center on or before March 19, 2020, the passport agency or center will contact you and ask if you want to pick-up your passport in person or have it mailed to you.
> 
> Customers in Puerto Rico should be aware that our San Juan Passport Agency is closed to the public until at least April 12, 2020.
> 
> _*Due to public health measures to prevent the spread of COVID-19, many passport application acceptance facilities, which include libraries, clerks of court, and post offices are not accepting U.S. passport applications at this tim*_e. As of March 25, 2020, post offices which are still accepting applications are requiring customers to make an online appointment to apply in person for a U.S. passport. If you need to apply in person for your U.S. passport, please contact the facility directly to confirm the status of its operations.
> 
> *If you are applying for or renewing a U.S. passport on or after March 20, 2020, we will not offer expedited service and routine service may be delayed. *
> 
> The status of our operations may change quickly. We will update this notice as the status changes.



Sayhello


----------



## DisneyWishes14

sayhello said:


> That's not how I interpreted that.   Because of the limited number of people working in their offices, they are only processing applications for emergencies.  They apparently concluded since people aren't supposed to be traveling internationally anyways, that the passport office was not an essential business except for emergencies.  The bolding in italics below is mine
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sayhello



I think you and I are interpreting it the same way?  Due to the outbreak, they are only processing applications for emergencies.  Someone simply wanting a new passport cannot get one right now.


----------



## acndis

We applied for renewal of my son's passport on 3/16 right before this was issued.  It's stressing us out to say the least that things have been delayed (we did not do expedited because our trip is 6/30).  We have called to follow up several times and have been told things are proceeding with the renewal but it may be longer than 8 weeks because they are so short staffed.  As far as I can tell, the staffing problem is the real issue.


----------



## aggiedog

The last line or so on that page states that routine processing should be expected to be delayed.  It doesn't say stopped.

Agree, it's most likely due to short staffing, so what staff are left will be doing emergencies only.


----------



## lovetotravel

Another reason to love DELTA!!
------
*Coronavirus Travel Updates*
We’ve listened, and we know that you want the value of your ticket to be secure and redeemable for a longer period. We’re now extending the ability to plan, re-book and travel with us for up to two years.     
Tickets normally expire one year after purchase, but we’re providing waived change fees and greater flexibility to travel through May 31, 2022, for customers who:  

have upcoming travel already booked in April or May 2020 as of April 3, 2020 
have existing eCredits or canceled travel from flights in March, April or May 2020
Rest assured your eCredits are safe even as we work to process updates 
All applicable eCredits will be automatically extended to May 2022 so there’s no action needed on your part. We are actively working on a solution to display the new expiration dates in all the places you can find your eCredits on delta.com. So even if your eCredit for canceled travel has not yet been processed or extended, or is temporarily displaying incorrectly, there is no need to call. Rest assured your flight value is secure through May 2022 and will be ready to redeem online when you need it.  
Tickets purchased between March 1 and May 31, 2020, can be changed without a change fee for up to a year from the date you purchased it.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

aggiedog said:


> The last line or so on that page states that routine processing should be expected to be delayed.  It doesn't say stopped.
> 
> Agree, it's most likely due to short staffing, so what staff are left will be doing emergencies only.



Got it.  Yes, just out of curiosity, I went on the USPS website to see if there were any post offices within 100 miles of me still taking appointments for passport applications - none.  I guess they are saving resources for emergencies only.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

lovetotravel said:


> Another reason to love DELTA!!
> ------
> *Coronavirus Travel Updates*
> We’ve listened, and we know that you want the value of your ticket to be secure and redeemable for a longer period. We’re now extending the ability to plan, re-book and travel with us for up to two years.
> Tickets normally expire one year after purchase, but we’re providing waived change fees and greater flexibility to travel through May 31, 2022, for customers who:
> 
> have upcoming travel already booked in April or May 2020 as of April 3, 2020
> have existing eCredits or canceled travel from flights in March, April or May 2020
> Rest assured your eCredits are safe even as we work to process updates
> All applicable eCredits will be automatically extended to May 2022 so there’s no action needed on your part. We are actively working on a solution to display the new expiration dates in all the places you can find your eCredits on delta.com. So even if your eCredit for canceled travel has not yet been processed or extended, or is temporarily displaying incorrectly, there is no need to call. Rest assured your flight value is secure through May 2022 and will be ready to redeem online when you need it.
> Tickets purchased between March 1 and May 31, 2020, can be changed without a change fee for up to a year from the date you purchased it.



Wow.  This applies to us with flight credits initially set to expire in December 2020.  This is amazing news - thank you!


----------



## lovetotravel

DisneyWishes14 said:


> Wow.  This applies to us with flight credits initially set to expire in December 2020.  This is amazing news - thank you!


Yes, I am so excited about this. I've always loved Delta now even more so!!


----------



## acndis

I am ONLY flying Delta from now on...Dealing with United has not been fun.


----------



## sayhello

lovetotravel said:


> Another reason to love DELTA!!
> ------
> *Coronavirus Travel Updates*
> We’ve listened, and we know that you want the value of your ticket to be secure and redeemable for a longer period. We’re now extending the ability to plan, re-book and travel with us for up to two years.
> Tickets normally expire one year after purchase, but we’re providing waived change fees and greater flexibility to travel through May 31, 2022, for customers who:
> 
> have upcoming travel already booked in April or May 2020 as of April 3, 2020
> have existing eCredits or canceled travel from flights in March, April or May 2020
> Rest assured your eCredits are safe even as we work to process updates
> All applicable eCredits will be automatically extended to May 2022 so there’s no action needed on your part. We are actively working on a solution to display the new expiration dates in all the places you can find your eCredits on delta.com. So even if your eCredit for canceled travel has not yet been processed or extended, or is temporarily displaying incorrectly, there is no need to call. Rest assured your flight value is secure through May 2022 and will be ready to redeem online when you need it.
> Tickets purchased between March 1 and May 31, 2020, can be changed without a change fee for up to a year from the date you purchased it.


Oh, wow!  Thanks!  If my flights aren't cancelled outright, at least my credit will last long enough that I can actually use it!

The other good thing I found in this article is where to actually find my credits listed online.  I cancelled a trip to NYC just as this was all starting here, and they took $200 out of my $294 fare as a change fee, and said I'd get the $94 as a credit.  (I cancelled partially because I wasn't feeling well - ended up being bronchitis - and just didn't want to get on a plane and possibly get quarantined at JFK or heaven knows what).   I just looked, and I have a full $294 credit in my wallet.  Cool!

Sayhello


----------



## disneyholic family

aggiedog said:


> I have the same discussion with my DH, who is all for just letting everyone die that's going to die.  As a physician, I disagree. Not only because I'm in the job to keep people healthy and alive, but because there will be wider ramifications.  Because it won't just be coronavirus victims.  It will also be almost anyone else that needed timely emergency care (heart attacks, strokes, trauma), ICU beds (the list is too long to begin), and even those who just need supportive care and may not get it because resources are limited. Those medical care workers who are overworked and under supplied will, guaranteed, also get sick, and some will die.  It takes almost a decade to train up new doctors and get them at least enough experience to be really good.  Nurses, slightly less time.  I've heard stats anywhere from 14-19% fatality for age 70 and older.  That is a HUGE chunk of the population that would disappear, assuming that most older people will eventually be exposed to the virus.  We could have 10's of millions of younger adults that survive, but with pulmonary fibrosis, needing medical care and possibly unable to work.  What will that do to our economy?
> 
> So we have a huge recession/depression.  But our health care system survives more or less intact and our population is overall healthier with less long term problems.  And we've had time to develop a vaccine or treatment that controls the virus.
> 
> There are no good choices here.  Just less awful ones.



i'm a bit entertained reading this thread. I haven't been here since March 21.  So much has changed.
It boggles the mind how quickly things have changed.
Everything  you warned about has come to pass - certainly in New York, and from what i hear from doctors in Michigan, there as well.



dolewhipdreams said:


> Kevin from Dreams just tweeted that all May ABDs have been cancelled.



At first when i read that ABD had cancelled for May, i thought to myself, "hmm, perhaps ABD finally woke up"...
but then i remembered that for the most part there are no flights anywhere in the world and that situation is going to continue for some time to come. 
No planes, no ABD.  So they didn't cancel because of covid 19, they cancelled because of the impossibility of getting wherever it is they need to get to.



neurosx1983 said:


> So what are you guys doing about deposits you have for ABD's several months from now?
> We have the Christmas market Danube cruise on hold for this December. I'm almost certain we aren't going on that because I don't feel comfortable going to Europe this year. Period. Even if things get better by then which I hope to god they do.
> We are planning on moving the deposit to something in 2021 when new schedules come out in May. On that note, I wonder if anything new in May will come out to begin with.



And now you understand why i said i was going to cancel our ABD tour and DCL cruise in October in California.
I understood then that for the two of us to travel internationally in October would be irresponsible (i live on the european side of the atlantic).

You're younger than i, so perhaps it will be safe for you to come up for air by then.
But, i'm guessing DH and I are housebound until a vaccine comes online.

They're talking here about a soft restart.
Meaning, those in their 20s, 30s, 40s, and 50s will return to work, while leaving the schools closed for the rest of the school year and most importantly, continuing to completely isolate those aged 60 and up.  Total isolation. Absolutely no contact with anyone over the age of 60 (unless they are in a vital industry, e.g. doctors/nurse/etc.)

I find it hard to believe that there will be a vaccine before 2021, though i find it even harder to believe i'll be quarantined until then.
But it seems that will probably be the case.
Once they let me out, i'm never letting go of my grandkids again.
Zoom is all well and good, but it's just not the same thing as reading cat in the hat with the cuddly kidlet on your lap.


----------



## TXTransplant

So, I was just scrolling through Instagram, and I saw that all of the Alaska Railroad operations have been suspended until July. The Denali Star was a huge part of our trip, and it will not start running until at least July 1.

I’ve expected our trip will be cancelled, but seeing this announcement still hit me.  Traveling with my son is such a big deal for us, and early summer is the only time we can go.  He’s finishing up his freshman year in high school, and I am well-aware of the finite amount of time I have left with him at home.

We are reliving past vacations through Instagram to help take some of the sting away. We’ve made some amazing memories - the ones for this year will just be different.


----------



## aggiedog

I'm sorry I was right.  This is almost the perfect storm of infectious disease characteristics, though, and pretty much every physician I know saw this coming and was sounding the alarm to anyone that would listen.


----------



## disneyholic family

aggiedog said:


> I'm sorry I was right.  This is almost the perfect storm of infectious disease characteristics, though, and pretty much every physician I know saw this coming and was sounding the alarm to anyone that would listen.



i'm not a medical doctor, though i was in medical research ("a book doctor" as my kids love to tease).  
But you don't have to be a doctor, rocket scientist or anything else to have seen this coming from far more than a mile away.
Where i live (Israel), we did take more precautions than the US, but not nearly enough as is clear from our numbers.
We took half measures, which for something as infectious as covid 19, was almost as bad as taking no measures at all.

We'll eventually come out of this, somewhat the worse for wear, and hopefully with the incentive to get ready for the next disease X that may come along.

For now, happy holidays to all, whatever your particular flavor.  
Here's hoping next year will be better than this one.
.


----------



## OhanaCuz

DisneyWishes14 said:


> I just saw this morning that the US has stopped issuing passports unless it's a life-or-death emergency.  I'm assuming "I couldn't get a passport" still won't fly with ABD to get a refund on a deposit or PIF?



I am so glad that I was able to successfully renew my passport recently.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

I was on the Quark website yesterday and they indicate that the May, 2020 trips are still going   .

Then this morning I received the below e-mail. I am not sure who is making the incredibly terrible decisions at Quark, but I am shocked that they even have a glimmer of hope that their summer, 2020 cruises will go as scheduled.

Dear xxx,

_Thank you for choosing Quark Expeditions; we know you are getting excited for your upcoming voyage!  

We are happy to provide you with the attached Polar Reader, which will help you with your final preparations for this trip of a lifetime. Hard copies of the reader, as well as a  map of the Polar Regions, will be available on board your ship should you like one.

We look forward to welcoming you on this exciting adventure. _


----------



## lovetotravel

If you have an upcoming trip booked on American, especially Europe this summer, you should check your connections. They have been canceling and changing international routes and if your flight is affected, you can cancel it for a refund. If you're brave, you can rebook with the new flexible policy. If the rate is lower or the same it would make sense to rebook anyway to get the flexible change policy, if not and the fare is higher and you want to keep your flight, you might be able to ask for a better connection or upgrades. Or better yet, if you have an ABD, use the ABD to rebook your air to get a refundable airfare if they cancel your trip and not be stuck with a credit. Hope this helps someone, my friend and I were able to cancel both of our airfares on American.


----------



## Magnum_PI

Our Egypt ABD is set to depart Sept 15, so we’re just outside of the delayed PIF policy. We’d already booked airfare in mid Feb. Frustrating, wish we could just do a date change to next year but no departures for 2021 have openings.

Oh well. Hoping to see some change in policy by May 18 (our PIF deadline).


----------



## Flacara

Ama Waterways cancelled their June cruises this morning. ABD river cruises are probably not far behind. What do you think their cancellation options will be?


----------



## DisneyWishes14

I was just on the ABD site to search for possible trips to transfer our deposits and came across this - it looks like it was just posted today:

*IMPORTANT INFORMATION*
Adventures by Disney has been closely monitoring the latest information regarding Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) and is in constant contact with local, state, national and international health agencies for information and guidance.

With the well-being of our Guests and team members as our top priority, _Adventures by Disney_ has decided to cancel most trips through the end of May 2020. Additionally, the trip departures to China and the 7-Night Alaska Cruise Packages will be cancelled through the end of June 2020. We continue to evaluate the Barcelona Escape (departing May 23, 2020), the 7-Night Mediterranean Cruise Package with Villefranche (departing May 23, 2020) and the 7-Night Mediterranean Cruise Package with Toulon (departing May 30, 2020).


----------



## debraW76

DisneyWishes14 said:


> I was just on the ABD site to search for possible trips to transfer our deposits and came across this - it looks like it was just posted today:
> 
> *IMPORTANT INFORMATION*
> Adventures by Disney has been closely monitoring the latest information regarding Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) and is in constant contact with local, state, national and international health agencies for information and guidance.
> 
> With the well-being of our Guests and team members as our top priority, _Adventures by Disney_ has decided to cancel most trips through the end of May 2020. Additionally, the trip departures to China and the 7-Night Alaska Cruise Packages will be cancelled through the end of June 2020. We continue to evaluate the Barcelona Escape (departing May 23, 2020), the 7-Night Mediterranean Cruise Package with Villefranche (departing May 23, 2020) and the 7-Night Mediterranean Cruise Package with Toulon (departing May 30, 2020).


still doesn’t include June trips to Italy


----------



## quinnc19

I was booked on a June sailing and haven't heard anything yet.


----------



## sayhello

Flacara said:


> Ama Waterways cancelled their June cruises this morning. ABD river cruises are probably not far behind. What do you think their cancellation options will be?


When they cancelled my May Rhone river cruise (also because AmaWaterways cancelled all their April/May cruises) I was offered to move my money to another cruise departure, move it to a completely different itinerary or get a full refund.  I opted for the full refund.


DisneyWishes14 said:


> I was just on the ABD site to search for possible trips to transfer our deposits and came across this - it looks like it was just posted today:
> 
> *IMPORTANT INFORMATION*
> Adventures by Disney has been closely monitoring the latest information regarding Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) and is in constant contact with local, state, national and international health agencies for information and guidance.
> 
> With the well-being of our Guests and team members as our top priority, _Adventures by Disney_ has decided to cancel most trips through the end of May 2020. Additionally, the trip departures to China and the 7-Night Alaska Cruise Packages will be cancelled through the end of June 2020. We continue to evaluate the Barcelona Escape (departing May 23, 2020), the 7-Night Mediterranean Cruise Package with Villefranche (departing May 23, 2020) and the 7-Night Mediterranean Cruise Package with Toulon (departing May 30, 2020).


That's actually been out there for at least a week.  I can't believe they haven't canceled the Barcelona & Med cruises yet.  Sheesh!


lovetotravel said:


> If you have an upcoming trip booked on American, especially Europe this summer, you should check your connections. They have been canceling and changing international routes and if your flight is affected, you can cancel it for a refund. If you're brave, you can rebook with the new flexible policy. If the rate is lower or the same it would make sense to rebook anyway to get the flexible change policy, if not and the fare is higher and you want to keep your flight, you might be able to ask for a better connection or upgrades. Or better yet, if you have an ABD, use the ABD to rebook your air to get a refundable airfare if they cancel your trip and not be stuck with a credit. Hope this helps someone, my friend and I were able to cancel both of our airfares on American.


Now if Delta would just do this for May...

Sayhello


----------



## DisneyWishes14

sayhello said:


> When they cancelled my May Rhone river cruise (also because AmaWaterways cancelled all their April/May cruises) I was offered to move my money to another cruise departure, move it to a completely different itinerary or get a full refund.  I opted for the full refund.
> That's actually been out there for at least a week.  I can't believe they haven't canceled the Barcelona & Med cruises yet.  Sheesh!
> Now if Delta would just do this for May...
> 
> Sayhello



We are on the Rhine in early August.  With the Ama cancellations now going in to June I am really hoping we know more about what will happen with the rest of the summer sailings before our PIF in early May.  I have to say, I'm glad ABD has to follow Ama's lead on this because Ama seems to be way ahead of the game on cancellations.


----------



## sayhello

DisneyWishes14 said:


> We are on the Rhine in early August.  With the Ama cancellations now going in to June I am really hoping we know more about what will happen with the rest of the summer sailings before our PIF in early May.  I have to say, I'm glad ABD has to follow Ama's lead on this because Ama seems to be way ahead of the game on cancellations.


It was a bit of a relief when I read that AmaWaterways had cancelled through May, because I knew ABD would have to cancel at that point, and they'd been silent about it up until then.  They cancelled the next day.

Sayhello


----------



## lovetotravel

sayhello said:


> It was a bit of a relief when I read that AmaWaterways had cancelled through May, because I knew ABD would have to cancel at that point, and they'd been silent about it up until then.  They cancelled the next day.
> 
> Sayhello


I am not sure how their contracts works, but I wonder if ABD waits to cancel after AmaWaterways cancels so that ABD isn't out of money and is able to give customers full refunds? Similar to when we want to cancel our flights or ABD but wait until after they cancel for us to receive a full refund.


----------



## sayhello

lovetotravel said:


> I am not sure how their contracts works, but I wonder if ABD waits to cancel after AmaWaterways cancels so that ABD isn't out of money and is able to give customers full refunds? Similar to when we want to cancel our flights or ABD but wait until after they cancel for us to receive a full refund.


That's an interesting supposition.  It never occurred to me.  And honestly, makes a lot of sense.  It's still putting their bottom line before our welfare, but it does make sense.

Sayhello


----------



## Rapunzellover

lovetotravel said:


> I am not sure how their contracts works, but I wonder if ABD waits to cancel after AmaWaterways cancels so that ABD isn't out of money and is able to give customers full refunds? Similar to when we want to cancel our flights or ABD but wait until after they cancel for us to receive a full refund.



This is a logical guess, but doesn't explain how the land ABDs are being dealt with.


----------



## TXTransplant

sayhello said:


> That's an interesting supposition.  It never occurred to me.  And honestly, makes a lot of sense.  It's still putting their bottom line before our welfare, but it does make sense.
> 
> Sayhello



I suspect there is a lot of haggling like this going on behind the scenes.  ABD is totally different from the theme parks and DCL because they contract out everything that ABD provides except for the guides.  So, they need to get refunded from hotels, tour providers, restaurants, and other vendors before they can give us our money back.  And I would imagine that most of these hotels and vendors want to give ABD a "credit" for future services just like ABD would prefer to give their customers a credit (rather than a refund).  This is why I don't really have an issue with them trying to put off cancellations and refunds as long as possible, especially for travel beyond our existing window of stay at home restrictions. 

And, let's be honest, I was prepared to pay $14k to Nat Geo for our June Alaska trip.  Do I like the fact that they still have my money for a trip that I really don't think is going to happen?  No.  But, I'd already budgeted to spend that money.  There really is no difference in getting a refund now or a month from now.  If not having the money is a now hardship, then that's on me and not Nat Geo.

Now, for PIF dates in the next couple of months, I think all the companies should be very lenient with their policies and refunds, if only because so many people are facing layoffs and furloughs.  But, even then, that's what trip insurance is for.  We are just hoping for an exception because basically the entire world is affected by this right now. 

Just like we would prefer that ABD cancel a trip for us, ABD (and all the other travel companies, including the airlines) are hoping WE cancel first so that they can apply a different standard of T&C for refunds. 

It's like we are all playing a big ole game of chicken.


----------



## Rapunzellover

TXTransplant said:


> I suspect there is a lot of haggling like this going on behind the scenes.  ABD is totally different from the theme parks and DCL because they contract out everything that ABD provides except for the guides.  So, they need to get refunded from hotels, tour providers, restaurants, and other vendors before they can give us our money back.  And I would imagine that most of these hotels and vendors want to give ABD a "credit" for future services just like ABD would prefer to give their customers a credit (rather than a refund).  This is why I don't really have an issue with them trying to put off cancellations and refunds as long as possible, especially for travel beyond our existing window of stay at home restrictions.
> 
> And, let's be honest, I was prepared to pay $14k to Nat Geo for our June Alaska trip.  Do I like the fact that they still have my money for a trip that I really don't think is going to happen?  No.  But, I'd already budgeted to spend that money.  There really is no difference in getting a refund now or a month from now.  If not having the money is a now hardship, then that's on me and not Nat Geo.
> 
> Now, for PIF dates in the next couple of months, I think all the companies should be very lenient with their policies and refunds, if only because so many people are facing layoffs and furloughs.  But, even then, that's what trip insurance is for.  We are just hoping for an exception because basically the entire world is affected by this right now.
> 
> Just like we would prefer that ABD cancel a trip for us, ABD (and all the other travel companies, including the airlines) are hoping WE cancel first so that they can apply a different standard of T&C for refunds.
> 
> It's like we are all playing a big ole game of chicken.



This is all very accurate.   And I don't think people would care so much if it wasn't a matter of ABD potentially putting people at risk with this game of chicken.  The March 13th ABD to London/France and Australia that were canceled once people got to their destinations was inexcusable and those cancellations didn't happen because money came first.  And yes, people could've canceled anyway, but a company should not force people to chose between health and losing thousands of dollars.  Plus, people trust the Disney brand to look out for their wellbeing, and a lot of people not cancel thinking Disney wouldn't put them ask risk...only to be seriously put at risk.  

Safety's the original reason I chose them as a company; I thought, "I'll be safe with Disney." I don't think that anymore.


----------



## TXTransplant

Rapunzellover said:


> This is all very accurate.   And I don't think people would care so much if it wasn't a matter of ABD potentially putting people at risk with this game of chicken.  The March 13th ABD to London/France and Australia that were canceled once people got to their destinations was inexcusable and those cancellations didn't happen because money came first.  And yes, people could've canceled anyway, but a company should not force people to chose between health and losing thousands of dollars.  Plus, people trust the Disney brand to look out for their wellbeing, and a lot of people not cancel thinking Disney wouldn't put them ask risk...only to be seriously put at risk.
> 
> Safety's the original reason I chose them as a company; I thought, "I'll be safe with Disney." I don't think that anymore.



I agree they waited too long to cancel those trips.  But, that was when the SHTF, and while they handled it terribly, I can only hope it will be a learning experience for them going forward.  And certainly, the people affected by those bad decisions should be generously compensated - but that's between them and Disney, and we may never know the details.  

I am fine with them waiting to address June and July trips at a future date, though.  While Tauck's offer of a full refund for all trips scheduled through July 31 is wonderful and the "gold standard" for customer service, I certainly don't expect all companies to follow.  

As far as "never" traveling with ABD again - I was in this camp a few weeks ago. But, let's face it - if ABD has the itinerary and dates that we ~really~ like, most of us would probably take our chances and book with them again. Because what are the odds of another pandemic or crisis on the scale of this one happening again in the next few years (or even next 50-100 years)?  As a collective society, we do not generally plan our lives around "worst case scenario".


----------



## Rapunzellover

TXTransplant said:


> Because what are the odds of another pandemic or crisis on the scale of this one happening again in the next few years (or even next 50-100 years)?



Those odds are higher than they should be, really.  And higher than I'd like.  But I agree, no use planning for another worst case scenario yet.  

And I'm never gonna say I'd never travel with ABD again.  Their guides in particular are the best.   But let's put it this way:  if the ABD Itinerary is similar to Tauck's, I would probably have chosen ABD before this.  Not anymore.


----------



## TXTransplant

Rapunzellover said:


> Those odds are higher than they should be, really.  And higher than I'd like.  But I agree, no use planning for another worst case scenario yet.
> 
> And I'm never gonna say I'd never travel with ABD again.  Their guides in particular are the best.   But let's put it this way:  if the ABD Itinerary is similar to Tauck's, I would probably have chosen ABD before this.  Not anymore.



Let me rephrase - once we have a vaccine, what are the odds of a pandemic like this happening again in our lifetimes?  Until we have a vaccine, we are at risk for continued outbreaks.  But this type of scenario at this scale is, statistically anyway, one of those "once in a lifetime" occurrences.  It's much more likely there would be an outbreak that only affected one region of the world but not the entire globe.


----------



## neurosx1983

TXTransplant said:


> I suspect there is a lot of haggling like this going on behind the scenes.  ABD is totally different from the theme parks and DCL because they contract out everything that ABD provides except for the guides.  So, they need to get refunded from hotels, tour providers, restaurants, and other vendors before they can give us our money back.  And I would imagine that most of these hotels and vendors want to give ABD a "credit" for future services just like ABD would prefer to give their customers a credit (rather than a refund).  This is why I don't really have an issue with them trying to put off cancellations and refunds as long as possible, especially for travel beyond our existing window of stay at home restrictions.
> 
> And, let's be honest, I was prepared to pay $14k to Nat Geo for our June Alaska trip.  Do I like the fact that they still have my money for a trip that I really don't think is going to happen?  No.  But, I'd already budgeted to spend that money.  There really is no difference in getting a refund now or a month from now.  If not having the money is a now hardship, then that's on me and not Nat Geo.
> 
> Now, for PIF dates in the next couple of months, I think all the companies should be very lenient with their policies and refunds, if only because so many people are facing layoffs and furloughs.  But, even then, that's what trip insurance is for.  We are just hoping for an exception because basically the entire world is affected by this right now.
> 
> Just like we would prefer that ABD cancel a trip for us, ABD (and all the other travel companies, including the airlines) are hoping WE cancel first so that they can apply a different standard of T&C for refunds.
> 
> It's like we are all playing a big ole game of chicken.



ABD shouldn't be given too much credit for the fact that they work with vendors. Every other tour company does, too. And most other tour companies don't have Disney Corp. backing them up. Also, we all must realize about 40-50% of the cost of ABD trips is pure profit. I think if you break down the cost of the trips you're going to come close to that number (which I just made up, but I think I'm right) 

Their major flaw during this crisis was lack of proper communication. If they had told us that the reason they're holding out on cancelling is because they work with vendors, and its complicated, a lot of us would have understood.

Also, I'm hearing that they're telling customers it will take 30-60-90 days to potentially get refund money back. Absolutely unacceptable during this financially distressing time for many families who've lost jobs and would love to have that trip money in their accounts right now.


----------



## sayhello

neurosx1983 said:


> Their major flaw during this crisis was lack of proper communication. If they had told us that the reason they're holding out on cancelling is because they work with vendors, and its complicated, a lot of us would have understood.


This!!!  Instead they were acting like everything is normal, and the trip is definitely going, rather than indicating the true status that they were working on it, and it just hadn't been cancelled *yet*.

Sayhello


----------



## TXTransplant

neurosx1983 said:


> ABD shouldn't be given too much credit for the fact that they work with vendors. Every other tour company does, too. And most other tour companies don't have Disney Corp. backing them up. Also, we all must realize about 40-50% of the cost of ABD trips is pure profit. I think if you break down the cost of the trips you're going to come close to that number (which I just made up, but I think I'm right)
> 
> Their major flaw during this crisis was lack of proper communication. If they had told us that the reason they're holding out on cancelling is because they work with vendors, and its complicated, a lot of us would have understood.
> 
> Also, I'm hearing that they're telling customers it will take 30-60-90 days to potentially get refund money back. Absolutely unacceptable during this financially distressing time for many families who've lost jobs and would love to have that trip money in their accounts right now.



Isn't pretty much every other major company, other than Tauck, handling this about the same as ABD?  I know Nat Geo is.  And even Tauck is only giving CREDITS on trips scheduled for May 16-July 31 that GUESTS cancel.  And as much as we want to believe that the rest of the Walt Disney Company can back ABD up, that's just now how divisions of big companies work.

While I agree communication is important (and was not handled properly on those March trips to England/France and Australia), ABD and any other company shouldn't be expected to make public statements or posts on their website.  Communication should be between the company and each individual guest.  As I said before, ~hopefully~, they are learning from their mistakes, but just considering my own situation, I am not prepared to complain about Nat Geo not communicating properly about a trip that doesn't depart until June.  They have plenty of other guests that they need to deal with, and I just have to wait it out until it's "my turn".

Sadly, the issue with refunds doesn't surprise me, either.  The airlines are pulling all sort of shady stuff with that right now, too.  United in particular changed their refund policy 4 times just in the first couple of weeks of March.  Now they are trying to say that, if they cancel your international flight but can book you on another within 25 hours, they can keep your money for a YEAR before issuing a refund.  On domestic travel, they only want to offer vouchers.  A traveler has just sued them over it.

https://abcnews.go.com/Business/police-officer-sues-united-airlines-ticket-refunds/story?id=70018998
But, again, if people now have financial hardship because of a 5 figure vacation expense, that's not entirely on ABD.  The difference now is SO MANY people are affected that we are expecting different treatment.  When you commit to spending that type of money, you have to run your budget as if the money is gone.  There are plenty of O&G companies that are furloughing people right now not because of the pandemic but because the price of oil is ridiculously low.  If a customer has any concern about losing their money because of some unforeseen crisis or financial hardship that's beyond their control, then that's what travel insurance is for.

With that said, if I had to wait 60-90 days for a refund on a cancelled trip, that would be reason enough for me to never do business with a company again.


----------



## Cliffside

Just got an email from my TA. I got a full refund on my June Danube River cruise. Not sure if it officially canceled by ABD yet  but I just got the confirmation  that I am getting all my money back.


----------



## sayhello

TXTransplant said:


> While I agree communication is important (and was not handled properly on those March trips to England/France and Australia), *ABD and any other company shouldn't be expected to make public statements or posts on their website.  Communication should be between the company and each individual guest.*  As I said before, ~hopefully~, they are learning from their mistakes, but just considering my own situation, I am not prepared to complain about Nat Geo not communicating properly about a trip that doesn't depart until June.  They have plenty of other guests that they need to deal with, and I just have to wait it out until it's "my turn".


That is *not* it.  I totally didn't expect to get an answer publicly, or on ABD's website.  My TA contacted them multiple times on my behalf, and all they ever told her, until the day it was cancelled was "We're keeping an eye on it, but the trip is a 'Go'."  Even after it was obviously NOT a 'Go' due to what was going on in France.  There was NO real communication between the company and each individual guest (or their representative).  That's the problem.



TXTransplant said:


> If a customer has any concern about losing their money because of some unforeseen crisis or financial hardship that's beyond their control, then that's what travel insurance is for.


Well, except for the fact that the majority of travel insurance does NOT cover any of this.  It doesn't cover cancellation by your provider (only covers if the provider goes out of business) and doesn't cover epidemics/pandemics.  People are caught between a rock and a hard place even if they did everything right.

Sayhello


----------



## marie1981

I just received a phone call from ABD. They cancelled my june Rhône cruise and refund me the money


----------



## Rapunzellover

TXTransplant said:


> Let me rephrase - once we have a vaccine, what are the odds of a pandemic like this happening again in our lifetimes?  Until we have a vaccine, we are at risk for continued outbreaks.  But this type of scenario at this scale is, statistically anyway, one of those "once in a lifetime" occurrences.  It's much more likely there would be an outbreak that only affected one region of the world but not the entire globe.



No, this is hardly a once in a lifetime thing.  We've had several global pandemics since 2000.  This one seems like a once in a lifetime thing, but that's because it's highly contagious and thus we're taking more precautions.   But we will likely have more global pandemics.  Maybe not with a stop everyone response, but still.  It will happen.   But cross that bridge when we come to it.


----------



## TXTransplant

sayhello said:


> That is *not* it.  I totally didn't expect to get an answer publicly, or on ABD's website.  My TA contacted them multiple times on my behalf, and all they ever told her, until the day it was cancelled was "We're keeping an eye on it, but the trip is a 'Go'."  Even after it was obviously NOT a 'Go' due to what was going on in France.  There was NO real communication between the company and each individual guest (or their representative).  That's the problem.
> 
> Well, except for the fact that the majority of travel insurance does NOT cover any of this.  It doesn't cover cancellation by your provider (only covers if the provider goes out of business) and doesn't cover epidemics/pandemics.  People are caught between a rock and a hard place even if they did everything right.
> 
> Sayhello



I agree, your trip was one of the ones that was handled poorly.  My comment about the website came from the fact that I've seen several posts in this thread to the effect of "ABD doesn't even have anything on their website."  Personally, I don't think we should expect them to.  Again, it wasn't directed at your specific experience, and you have good reason to be very upset with the way your trip was handled.  My comments are directed towards trips scheduled in the next couple of months and the perception that ABD isn't "doing enough".

As far as travel insurance goes, no, it doesn't cover a pandemic.  Maybe I'm mistaken, but if you have insurance (esp. CFAR), you should be able to cancel based on job loss and maybe even unexpected financial hardship.  If a customer with a booked trip is waiting for ABD to cancel and absolutely NEEDS their money back right now and can't wait for ABD to cancel, then that is a scenario that could and should be addressed with travel insurance, assuming they have it. 

Like I said, I understand that people are all of a sudden finding themselves in financially precarious positions.  Heck, I was booked on a Disney Cruise and lost my job two months before before we were scheduled to depart (luckily, it was days before PIF).  But, I'm not sure that is an issue ABD needs to specifically address given everything else that is going on.


----------



## TXTransplant

Rapunzellover said:


> No, this is hardly a once in a lifetime thing.  We've had several global pandemics since 2000.  This one seems like a once in a lifetime thing, but that's because it's highly contagious and thus we're taking more precautions.   But we will likely have more global pandemics.  Maybe not with a stop everyone response, but still.  It will happen.   But cross that bridge when we come to it.



I'm aware we've had pandemics before.  As I said in my post that you quoted, there has not been one of this SCALE in our lifetimes.  When was the last time essentially all global travel was shutdown due to a pandemic?  I'm certainly not an expert, but it's my understanding that viruses with this particular combination of incubation time, ease of transmission, asymptomatic transmission, and deadly effects are pretty rare.  I'm 40, my parents are almost 70, and we've certainly never seen anything like this.  

My point wasn't to downplay other pandemics or to suggest one will never happen again, but to point out that the scale of this one is completely unprecedented.  I would not be shocked to see global travel locked down like this again but not likely for this same reason (maybe for another, though - think 9/11).  But, as we agree, we don't live our lives or plan our vacations around worst case scenarios.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

TXTransplant said:


> I agree, your trip was one of the ones that was handled poorly.  My comment about the website came from the fact that I've seen several posts in this thread to the effect of "ABD doesn't even have anything on their website."  Personally, I don't think we should expect them to.  Again, it wasn't directed at your specific experience.
> 
> As far as travel insurance goes, no, it doesn't cover a pandemic.  Maybe I'm mistaken, but if you have insurance (esp. CFAR), you should be able to cancel based on job loss and maybe even unexpected financial hardship.  If a customer with a booked trip is waiting for ABD to cancel and absolutely NEEDS their money back right now and can't wait for ABD to cancel, then that is a scenario that could and should be addressed with travel insurance, assuming they have it.
> 
> Like I said, I understand that people are all of a sudden finding themselves in financially precarious positions.  Heck, I was booked on a Disney Cruise and lost my job two months before before we were scheduled to depart (luckily, it was days before PIF).  But, I'm not sure that is an issue ABD needs to specifically address given everything else that is going on.


I read my travel insurance contract with AIG and it doesn't exclude a pandemic. I also had a friend read it and she didn't see it either. Dd has chronic severe asthma, so hopefully it will be enough to get us our money back (her physician said she is not permitted to travel currently). I didn't purchase CFAR, but if I did it would only get me 50% back, vs 100%. 

Interestingly the policy also covers loss of job. However I am a contractor, which is excluded. As of last Friday I am no longer being paid, which I am fine with as I had been so slow I was feeling guilty that the company was still paying me. Not sure if I will be called back in the summer or not.


----------



## laceltris3

TXTransplant said:


> Isn't pretty much every other major company, other than Tauck, handling this about the same as ABD?  I know Nat Geo is.  And even Tauck is only giving CREDITS on trips scheduled for May 16-July 31 that GUESTS cancel.  And as much as we want to believe that the rest of the Walt Disney Company can back ABD up, that's just now how divisions of big companies work.



Yes, Tauck may only be giving guests credit for guest cancellations, but they also delayed PIF until 30 days out very early on. They are not putting people in the position to have to make a call on putting significant funds at risk 120 or 90 days out.


----------



## TXTransplant

Say Hello,

I apologize for any confusion.  There has kind of been two conversations going on in this thread - one about how awful ABD handled the March trips and another about why isn't ABD doing something about ALL their trips and doing it right now.  My comments were directed towards the latter.


----------



## TXTransplant

laceltris3 said:


> Yes, Tauck may only be giving guests credit for guest cancellations, but they also delayed PIF until 30 days out very early on. They are not putting people in the position to have to make a call on putting significant funds at risk 120 or 90 days out.



Yes, in an earlier post I said ABD should be adjusting their PIF policy and letting people delay, and I think it makes them look bad that they haven't.


----------



## Rapunzellover

TXTransplant said:


> I'm aware we've had pandemics before.  As I said in my post that you quoted, there has not been one of this SCALE in our lifetimes.  When was the last time essentially all global travel was shutdown due to a pandemic?  I'm certainly not an expert, but it's my understanding that viruses with this particular combination of incubation time, ease of transmission, asymptomatic transmission, and deadly effects are pretty rare.  I'm 40, my parents are almost 70, and we've certainly never seen anything like this.
> 
> My point wasn't to downplay other pandemics or to suggest one will never happen again, but to point out that the scale of this one is completely unprecedented.



I misunderstood you then.  It's definitely a once in a lifetime (hopefully) response, for sure.   I'm also 40 with 70/71 parents, and we've never seen this either.   I just hope this doesn't alter the world so much that it never recovers.


----------



## TXTransplant

Rapunzellover said:


> I misunderstood you then.  It's definitely a once in a lifetime (hopefully) response, for sure.   I'm also 40 with 70/71 parents, and we've never seen this either.   I just hope this doesn't alter the world so much that it never recovers.



I think the way the world responds to a lot of things has been irrevocably changed due to the media/social media.  I was really bothered last year by what happened with Boeing after the two 737 plane crashes, and even with Southwest after the passenger was killed when the engine shrapnel broke the window next to her seat.  I'm certainly not trying to excuse any mistakes they made, but back in the 80s and 90s, Boeing had problems with both the 747 and 737 that resulted in deadly crashes and loss of life.  But at no point was anything ever grounded.  Heck, even our president can make one or two negative tweets about a company and it sends the stock plunging.

But in terms of changes that affect those of us with the travel bug, I think it's going to be more difficult to travel for the next year or so.  Not necessarily because of lockdowns or government imposed restrictions, but because the airlines and cruise lines and tour companies are going to cut back on what they offer.  Maybe demand will go down, too, though, because of the economic downturn, and those of us who still want to travel will be able to.  But, I expect availability, especially of flights, to be limited.

I would expect the travel insurance industry to change their products (and costs), too.


----------



## Cousin Orville

TXTransplant said:


> But in terms of changes that affect those of us with the travel bug, I think it's going to be more difficult to travel for the next year or so.  Not necessarily because of lockdowns or government imposed restrictions, but because the airlines and cruise lines and tour companies are going to cut back on what they offer.  Maybe demand will go down, too, though, because of the economic downturn, and those of us who still want to travel will be able to.  But, I expect availability, especially of flights, to be limited.
> 
> I would expect the travel insurance industry to change their products (and costs), too.



The industry I'd expect to be hit the hardest would be cruises.  There was a Saudi financial group that just propped up Carnival a couple of days ago, but otherwise these cruise companies are in a world of pain right now.  Stocks down 70%.  Analysts not recommending purchasing even at that level.  Disney can float DCL (pardon the pun) for several months or a year, but I don't think Carnival or Royal Caribbean can.  It will be interesting to follow if there is still enough demand to keep them all afloat.  I suspect there is, but I'd expect outside of Disney there will be some serious deals for anyone willing to cruise.


----------



## TXTransplant

Cousin Orville said:


> The industry I'd expect to be hit the hardest would be cruises.  There was a Saudi financial group that just propped up Carnival a couple of days ago, but otherwise these cruise companies are in a world of pain right now.  Stocks down 70%.  Analysts not recommending purchasing even at that level.  Disney can float DCL (pardon the pun) for several months or a year, but I don't think Carnival or Royal Caribbean can.  It will be interesting to follow if there is still enough demand to keep them all afloat.  I suspect there is, but I'd expect outside of Disney there will be some serious deals for anyone willing to cruise.



Oh, definitely.  The cruise industry is going to be in a world of hurt.  Also, cruise ships were already known for being "floating petri dishes" - there have been plenty of outbreaks on them in the past, it's just usually been norovirus.  They might end up with a huge PR/public perception problem, even after this virus dies down.  All the stories about ships being stranded out in the ocean with a bunch of sick passengers are just making things worse.


----------



## Grifdog22

marie1981 said:


> I just received a phone call from ABD. They cancelled my june Rhône cruise and refund me the money


AMA waterways has cancelled all June cruises, so ABD has no boat - they have to cancel.


----------



## abdgeek

Grifdog22 said:


> AMA waterways has cancelled all June cruises, so ABD has no boat - they have to cancel.



ABD cancelled the river cruises through June.  CMs were notified this morning.   Both that and my June Budapest Short Escape were cancelled.  I called DVC this morning and rebooked both for next year since I used points.  Unfortunately, it does not appear that their website has been updated to reflect this.


----------



## J and R's mom

marie1981 said:


> I just received a phone call from ABD. They cancelled my june Rhône cruise and refund me the money





Grifdog22 said:


> AMA waterways has cancelled all June cruises, so ABD has no boat - they have to cancel.



I have been following this thread for awhile.  We were supposed to take our first ever ABD vacation on the Rhine River Cruise beginning July 24-Aug 2 (which included an extra day add-on at the beginning so we could fly in a day early).  The folks going were my mom, 70, me 47, and my two teen daughters 15, 17.  My mom has severe/chronic asthma and will not be released by her doctor for international travel by then (nor do we plan on risking it even if she was).

We paid the trip in full already (back in February), used ABD to purchase our airline tickets (also paid for already), and purchased trip insurance through ABD (which is called ABD Vacation Protection Plan...so I'm not sure if that is under-written by some other company or not). **ETA our insurance is underwritten by: Arch Insurance Company.

We are hoping that the trip is cancelled by ABD, but from what I am reading, there is no way to tell until AMA Waterways makes that call forcing ABD's hand.  And that may be a while yet...if at all.  I also do not know what to expect from the insurance we bought through ABD, even with reading all of the fine print.

I will say, we have all had to mourn the loss of that trip.  We were all looking forward to it.  Moving it to next summer might be an option, but my oldest will be getting ready to go off to college and will most likely be playing a sport at that college (assuming her recruiting stays as it is), so it will be harder to make happen.

And to top it all off...they delivered the Welcome Packet Box thing today....We haven't opened it yet...but it just seems so sad...


----------



## OhanaCuz

J and R's mom said:


> And to top it all off...they delivered the Welcome Packet Box thing today....We haven't opened it yet...but it just seems so sad...



I feel really bad for you because I know how you much we looked forward to that first trip.  You're doing the right thing to protect your loved ones.


----------



## WishUponAStarryNight

abdgeek said:


> ABD cancelled the river cruises through June.  CMs were notified this morning.   Both that and my June Budapest Short Escape were cancelled.  I called DVC this morning and rebooked both for next year since I used points.  Unfortunately, it does not appear that their website has been updated to reflect this.


Still waiting to hear back from my TA on this. DS really wants to book again for next year, but I’m on the fence (about ABD and about leaving my money with ABD for another year+).


----------



## sayhello

J and R's mom said:


> I have been following this thread for awhile.  We were supposed to take our first ever ABD vacation on the Rhine River Cruise beginning July 24-Aug 2 (which included an extra day add-on at the beginning so we could fly in a day early).  The folks going were my mom, 70, me 47, and my two teen daughters 15, 17.  My mom has sever/chronic asthma and will not be released by her doctor for international travel by then (nor do we plan on risking it even if she was).
> 
> We paid the trip in full already (back in February), used ABD to purchase our airline tickets (also paid for already), and purchased trip insurance through ABD (which is called ABD Vacation Protection Plan...so I'm not sure if that is under-written by some other company or not).
> 
> We are hoping that the trip is cancelled by ABD, but from what I am reading, there is no way to tell until AMA Waterways makes that call forcing ABD's hand.  And that may be a while yet...if at all. * I also do not know what to expect from the insurance we bought through ABD, even with reading all of the fine print.*
> 
> I will say, we have all had to mourn the loss of that trip.  We were all looking forward to it.  Moving it to next summer might be an option, but my oldest will be getting ready to go off to college and will most likely be playing a sport at that college (assuming her recruiting stays as it is), so it will be harder to make happen.
> 
> And to top it all off...they delivered the Welcome Packet Box thing today....We haven't opened it yet...but it just seems so sad...


Since you purchased your airfare through ABD, if they cancel you should get a full refund, including your airfare.

If *you* cancel, chances are the ABD Vacation Protection Plan will *not* cover you.  Epidemics/pandemics are not covered.  The insurance *is* underwritten by another company.  ABD is basically just acting as  the agent for you.  However, if the insurance denies your claim, ABD offers a "Cancel for any reason" coverage separate from the actual policy that will give you a future travel voucher for 75% of your non-refundable trip costs.  That actually comes from ABD.

Sorry your going to have to cancel your trip.  It's so hard after all this planning and all the expectation.  I hope you can work it out for next year!

Sayhello


----------



## TXTransplant

sayhello said:


> Since you purchased your airfare through ABD, if they cancel you should get a full refund, including your airfare.
> 
> If *you* cancel, chances are the ABD Vacation Protection Plan will *not* cover you.  Epidemics/pandemics are not covered.  The insurance *is* underwritten by another company.  ABD is basically just acting as  the agent for you.  However, if the insurance denies your claim, ABD offers a "Cancel for any reason" coverage separate from the actual policy that will give you a future travel voucher for 75% of your non-refundable trip costs.  That actually comes from ABD.
> 
> Sorry your going to have to cancel your trip.  It's so hard after all this planning and all the expectation.  I hope you can work it out for next year!
> 
> Sayhello



I'm curious about the insurance (I've never had to make a claim)...if they canceled because her mom's doctor would not clear her mom for travel, would that be considered canceling for a pandemic?  Seems like the reason why the doctor would not clear her for travel would be irrelevant (and could be for anything, not necessarily a pandemic).


----------



## sayhello

TXTransplant said:


> I'm curious about the insurance (I've never had to make a claim)...if they canceled because her mom's doctor would not clear her mom for travel, would that be considered canceling for a pandemic?  Seems like the reason why the doctor would not clear her for travel would be irrelevant (and could be for anything, not necessarily a pandemic).


Good question.  That's really something they'd have to ask the insurance company (not ABD).  But my guess would be that it wouldn't fly.  I'm assuming that her Mom's chronic asthma is not a new thing.  The doctor is not saying she can't travel because her asthma has suddenly gotten worse, so she needs to cancel.  He's saying she can't travel because she has asthma during a time of pandemic.  So the real reason *is* the pandemic.  I'm assuming she had the asthma when they booked the trip and purchased the insurance.  But it *never* hurts to file a claim and see what happens.  They have to do that before they can get the Cancel for any Reason voucher anyways.

Sayhello


----------



## DisneyWishes14

I know it was already reported that the June river cruises were cancelled.  I just received this update which also lists the escape trips that bookend the cruises:

*UPDATE -*_ April 8, 2020: _With the wellbeing of our Guests and Guides as our top priority and in line with direction from health experts and government officials, *Adventures by Disney *along with AmaWaterways has decided to suspend June River Cruises and the associated Escape trips.

All impacted guests and travel agents will be contacted by *Adventures by Disney*.

*Cancelled Trips:*


Rhine River Cruise: 6/14/20
Rhine River Cruise: 6/28/20
Rhone River Cruise: 6/11/20
Seine River Cruise: 6/11/20
Danube River Cruise: 6/20/20
Danube River Cruise: 6/27/20
Amsterdam Escape: 6/21/20
Budapest Escape: 6/25/20
Paris Escape: 6/9/20
Paris Escape: 6/18/20
Amsterdam Escape: 7/5/20


----------



## MiddKid

DisneyWishes14 said:


> Amsterdam Escape: 7/5/20



First July date...getting closer...we're scheduled (and fully paid) for our first-ever ABD trip (Norway) leaving on 7/4.  We actually had our airfare to London (4 days before) already booked on Norwegian but I cancelled those for a refund already due to my concerns that they will even be in business in July (they were one of the first to receive a bailout).  Just playing the waiting game now.  We've paused on re-booking airfare and planning our pre/post-trip tours and activities.  It's all going to hinge on ABD at this point.  Truth be told, we'd prefer a cancellation with refund at this point.


----------



## neurosx1983

MiddKid said:


> First July date...getting closer...we're scheduled (and fully paid) for our first-ever ABD trip (Norway) leaving on 7/4.  We actually had our airfare to London (4 days before) already booked on Norwegian but I cancelled those for a refund already due to my concerns that they will even be in business in July (they were one of the first to receive a bailout).  Just playing the waiting game now.  We've paused on re-booking airfare and planning our pre/post-trip tours and activities.  It's all going to hinge on ABD at this point.  Truth be told, we'd prefer a cancellation with refund at this point.



They prob only cancelled that one because it was associated with a cruise, right? ABD still hasn't cancelled July trips to NORTHERN Italy yet...so I would imagine your trip to Norway will still be going as of now!
Norway ABD sounds great, btw. One of the ones I'd like to go on...


----------



## debraW76

Just updated again 


*Adventures by DisneyCoronavirus (COVID-19) Travel Alert*

April 9, 2020
*IMPORTANT INFORMATION*
Adventures by Disney has been closely monitoring the latest information regarding Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) and is in constant contact with local, state, national and international health agencies for information and guidance.
With the well-being of our Guests and team members as our top priority, _Adventures by Disney_ has decided to cancel most trips through the end of May 2020. Additionally, the trip departures to China and the 7-Night Alaska Cruise Packages will be cancelled through the end of June 2020. We continue to evaluate the Barcelona Escape (departing May 23, 2020), the 7-Night Mediterranean Cruise Package with Villefranche (departing May 23, 2020) and the 7-Night Mediterranean Cruise Package with Toulon (departing May 30, 2020).
Adventures by Disney and AmaWaterways River Cruise Update
In our continuing effort to ensure the well-being of our Guests and team members, _Adventures by Disney_ along with AmaWaterways, our partner in river cruise sailings, have decided to suspend all river cruise sailings and their associated Escape trips through June 28, 2020.
The following Adventures by Disney River Cruise sailings have been cancelled:
Rhine River Cruise

June 14, 2020
June 28, 2020
Rhône River Cruise

June 11, 2020
Seine River Cruise

June 11, 2020
Danube River Cruise

June 20, 2020
June 27, 2020
Additionally, the following _Adventures by Disney_ Escapes have been cancelled:

Amsterdam Escape: June 21; July 5, 2020
Budapest Escape: June 25, 2020
Paris Escape: June 9 & 18, 2020
Disney Cruise Line Sailings Update
The Canadian government has announced that it will not allow any ship with more than 500 passengers to dock in any Canadian port until July 1, at the earliest. Given that Disney Cruise Line has not been able to secure an alternate homeport, it is necessary to cancel _Disney Wonder_ sailings scheduled to embark and/or debark in Vancouver. Guests currently booked on affected sailings will be offered the choice of a cruise credit to be used for a future sailing within 15 months of their original sail date or a full refund. These Guests and travel agents will receive an email from us outlining details and next steps. The _Adventures by Disney_ 7-Night Alaska cruise package Guests purchased as part of this vacation will automatically be refunded back to original form of payment.
We will be contacting all impacted Guests and Travel Agents. For specific questions, you may also reach out to our Contact Center at (855) 223-0025 or (407) 566-8345.


----------



## scottmel

Sadly this entire thread has been how I felt about ABD For 3 years. I CANNOT wait for my next adventure to simply have my credit with them done so I can MOVE ON. I love Disney but not ABD.

Having vented, sorry, my trip is August Boston. I was ASSURED yesterday that if the plug was pulled I would be refunded in full as my PIF date is early May. 

I assume this is true? Not interested in yet another placeholder. Just want my cash....I know cancellations thru May but would you agree what I was told yesterday is accurate? Thanks! Melissa


----------



## sayhello

scottmel said:


> Sadly this entire thread has been how I felt about ABD For 3 years. I CANNOT wait for my next adventure to simply have my credit with them done so I can MOVE ON. I love Disney but not ABD.
> 
> Having vented, sorry, my trip is August Boston. I was ASSURED yesterday that if the plug was pulled I would be refunded in full as my PIF date is early May.
> 
> I assume this is true? Not interested in yet another placeholder. Just want my cash....I know cancellations thru May but would you agree what I was told yesterday is accurate? Thanks! Melissa


To my knowledge, for all trips that ABD has cancelled, a full refund has been one of the options offered to folks.  (And this has always been true).  I got a full refund for my Rhone river cruise that was cancelled for May.  The only question is airfare, which will be refunded if you booked through ABD.  If you didn't book through ABD, you *may* get rebooking fees covered.

Sayhello


----------



## Cousin Orville

scottmel said:


> Sadly this entire thread has been how I felt about ABD For 3 years. I CANNOT wait for my next adventure to simply have my credit with them done so I can MOVE ON. I love Disney but not ABD.
> 
> Having vented, sorry, my trip is August Boston. I was ASSURED yesterday that if the plug was pulled I would be refunded in full as my PIF date is early May.
> 
> I assume this is true? Not interested in yet another placeholder. Just want my cash....I know cancellations thru May but would you agree what I was told yesterday is accurate? Thanks! Melissa



If they cancel it, yes they'll give you a refund.  I don't think that's in question.  FWIW, if I had to guess, I wouldn't expect it to be cancelled.


----------



## Calfan

I waited a couple of days to post this until I had the money in my bank account so as not to jinx anything (I'm usually just superstitious about college football, lol, really!), but our June Japan trip with Thomson is now cancelled.  Huge kudos to our TA for negotiating with Thomson and getting us a full refund of our deposits rather than agreeing to some kind of future trip credit with Thomson.  (As an aside, I highly recommend my TA and would be more than happy to provide her contact info to anyone interested -- just PM me.)  Our deposit was pretty sizable ($8,216) because we had agreed to put 20% down initially to secure 2017 pricing for our 2020 trip, and then we also had made some smaller incremental deposits when we had Thomson arrange an overnight excursion to Mt. Fuji on the front end of the trip and an extension to Hiroshima on the back end of the trip.  Thomson hadn't officially cancelled our departure, but we were the only family left that hadn't bailed out, and it was clear they wanted us to blink and cancel and move our deposit somewhere.  My issue in doing that was with the pricing.  If we could have moved to 2021, that would have been workable.  2021 prices for Thomson's Japan trip are now $2,000 more per person than the 2017 pricing we had locked in, but they seemed willing to lock us in for 2021 with only a modest price bump over our 2017 pricing that didn't seem unreasonable under the current circumstances.  But we already have the Rhine River cruise with Wish extension booked for July 2021.  I thought about moving that one, but even though I'm not sure when I will be ready to step foot on a large cruise ship again, I'm still really interested in seeing the Wish being built and didn't want to lose that opportunity.  We will most likely do Japan in 2022, but Thomson wasn't as willing to work with us on pricing for 2022, and I didn't want to let them hold on to our money for another 2 years if we weren't guaranteed favorable pricing in 2022.  Plus, our kids will be 18 and 20 in 2022, so it will be nice to have the flexibility of picking a non-family-oriented Japan trip if that appeals to us at the time.  I still see re-booking with Thomson for a 2022 trip as a significant possibility, since I really do like their itinerary, and they have the ability to design add-ons and extensions that I really like.  But, for now, I'm glad to have all of our options open for 2022 and to have the cold, hard cash back in my bank account.  (As another aside, I'm super happy Thomson offered to ACH the funds directly into our account.  They also offered to refund the credit card we had paid the deposits with, but that would have been A LOT of points to give back to Chase and a large credit to need to work through, so the ACH was ideal.)  Now on to the very not fun part of cancelling plane and hotel reservations.  Hotels should be easy, since the Hilton Tokyo Bay is on points and there are no cancel restrictions.  We also booked one night at the Tokyo Station Hotel, but that one is also cancellable, and I haven't paid anything yet.  We have two positioning flights booked with United miles (Osaka to Tokyo on ANA and LAX to BOI), but it looks like United is now allowing cancellations of award bookings with no re-deposit fee, so those should be ok too.  The flights I am absolutely dreading dealing with are our JAL flights booked with Qantas miles.  Not that Qantas has been difficult to deal with, but even quite a while before this pandemic started, I needed to call Qantas regarding a schedule change with one of those JAL flights, and it was a 3-hour hold time to get through on multiple occasions!  I can't even imagine what hold times are like now.  And Qantas only has a call-back option if you have an Australian or New Zealand mobile number, which I don't have.  Needless to say, I'm going to wait until much closer to those flight dates to deal with cancelling and hope hope hope that JAL cancels the flights first!


----------



## lovetotravel

Calfan said:


> I waited a couple of days to post this until I had the money in my bank account so as not to jinx anything (I'm usually just superstitious about college football, lol, really!), but our June Japan trip with Thomson is now cancelled.  Huge kudos to our TA for negotiating with Thomson and getting us a full refund of our deposits rather than agreeing to some kind of future trip credit with Thomson.  (As an aside, I highly recommend my TA and would be more than happy to provide her contact info to anyone interested -- just PM me.)  Our deposit was pretty sizable ($8,216) because we had agreed to put 20% down initially to secure 2017 pricing for our 2020 trip, and then we also had made some smaller incremental deposits when we had Thomson arrange an overnight excursion to Mt. Fuji on the front end of the trip and an extension to Hiroshima on the back end of the trip.  Thomson hadn't officially cancelled our departure, but we were the only family left that hadn't bailed out, and it was clear they wanted us to blink and cancel and move our deposit somewhere.  My issue in doing that was with the pricing.  If we could have moved to 2021, that would have been workable.  2021 prices for Thomson's Japan trip are now $2,000 more per person than the 2017 pricing we had locked in, but they seemed willing to lock us in for 2021 with only a modest price bump over our 2017 pricing that didn't seem unreasonable under the current circumstances.  But we already have the Rhine River cruise with Wish extension booked for July 2021.  I thought about moving that one, but even though I'm not sure when I will be ready to step foot on a large cruise ship again, I'm still really interested in seeing the Wish being built and didn't want to lose that opportunity.  We will most likely do Japan in 2022, but Thomson wasn't as willing to work with us on pricing for 2022, and I didn't want to let them hold on to our money for another 2 years if we weren't guaranteed favorable pricing in 2022.  Plus, our kids will be 18 and 20 in 2022, so it will be nice to have the flexibility of picking a non-family-oriented Japan trip if that appeals to us at the time.  I still see re-booking with Thomson for a 2022 trip as a significant possibility, since I really do like their itinerary, and they have the ability to design add-ons and extensions that I really like.  But, for now, I'm glad to have all of our options open for 2022 and to have the cold, hard cash back in my bank account.  (As another aside, I'm super happy Thomson offered to ACH the funds directly into our account.  They also offered to refund the credit card we had paid the deposits with, but that would have been A LOT of points to give back to Chase and a large credit to need to work through, so the ACH was ideal.)  Now on to the very not fun part of cancelling plane and hotel reservations.  Hotels should be easy, since the Hilton Tokyo Bay is on points and there are no cancel restrictions.  We also booked one night at the Tokyo Station Hotel, but that one is also cancellable, and I haven't paid anything yet.  We have two positioning flights booked with United miles (Osaka to Tokyo on ANA and LAX to BOI), but it looks like United is now allowing cancellations of award bookings with no re-deposit fee, so those should be ok too.  The flights I am absolutely dreading dealing with are our JAL flights booked with Qantas miles.  Not that Qantas has been difficult to deal with, but even quite a while before this pandemic started, I needed to call Qantas regarding a schedule change with one of those JAL flights, and it was a 3-hour hold time to get through on multiple occasions!  I can't even imagine what hold times are like now.  And Qantas only has a call-back option if you have an Australian or New Zealand mobile number, which I don't have.  Needless to say, I'm going to wait until much closer to those flight dates to deal with cancelling and hope hope hope that JAL cancels the flights first!


Is your Qantas flight to/from USA? If so, it might fall under the refund DOT policy, however you'd probably have to wait to see if it applies to June trips? Overall a positive refund experience! I had the same experience when we cancelled a summer ABD Asia trip. We were offered a partial refund on Vietnam Air and took it. I filed the rest of the non-refundable fees with my cancel for any reason insurance, which I have yet to hear and it's been over a month since I filled the claim. Wish I would have booked ABD Air, but nevertheless we had minimal loss.


----------



## disneyholic family

Cousin Orville said:


> If they cancel it, yes they'll give you a refund.  I don't think that's in question.  FWIW, if I had to guess, I wouldn't expect it to be cancelled.



here they're talking about no plane travel before september, but of course, these things are changing daily, sometimes hourly..
.


----------



## Calfan

lovetotravel said:


> Is your Qantas flight to/from USA? If so, it might fall under the refund DOT policy, however you'd probably have to wait to see if it applies to June trips? Overall a positive refund experience! I had the same experience when we cancelled a summer ABD Asia trip. We were offered a partial refund on Vietnam Air and took it. I filed the rest of the non-refundable fees with my cancel for any reason insurance, which I have yet to hear and it's been over a month since I filled the claim. Wish I would have booked ABD Air, but nevertheless we had minimal loss.



These are actually JAL flights booked using Qantas miles, but they do originate/end in the U.S. Outbound was SFO to Tokyo Haneda, and inbound was Tokyo Narita to LAX.  I'm not too worried on the refund front. The worst we are looking at is a redeposit fee for the Qantas miles, and taxes/fees would then be refunded.  But I'm hopeful that we won't even have to pay a redeposit fee (and certainly if JAL cancels the flights, I will fight any redeposit fee).  The reason I don't want to call Qantas is just because of the horrible hold times.  My hoping that JAL cancels the flights is that it might automatically trigger a redeposit of my miles and refund of taxes/fees without having to call...


----------



## Calfan

Update:  I just cancelled the two sets of positioning flights for our now-cancelled Japan trip that I had booked as award flights using United miles and can confirm no redeposit fee was charged.  The miles are already back in my account.  Only one of the reservations had taxes/fees in the amount of $22.40 total that will be refunded to my credit card.  I have also cancelled our Hilton Tokyo Bay reservation, and those Hilton points are already back in my account.  Likewise, I have cancelled our Tokyo Station Hotel ressie with no cancellation penalty.  Now the waiting game on the JAL flights....


----------



## Cousin Orville

disneyholic family said:


> here they're talking about no plane travel before september, but of course, these things are changing daily, sometimes hourly..
> .


Where is that coming from?  I've not seen that.


----------



## TXTransplant

Cousin Orville said:


> Where is that coming from?  I've not seen that.



IIRC from previous comments, that poster is in Israel.


----------



## lovetotravel

So this new CDC "No Sail Order" for 100 days extends to mid July (originally 30 days from March 14).

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/s0409-modifications-extension-no-sail-ships.html
Does this affect cruises in only US waters or also river cruises in Europe? It seems that it's only a matter of time until July trips are cancelled.

https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/5265/


----------



## sayhello

lovetotravel said:


> So this new CDC "No Sail Order" for 100 days extends to mid July (originally 30 days from March 14).
> 
> https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/s0409-modifications-extension-no-sail-ships.html
> Does this affect cruises in only US waters or also river cruises in Europe? It seems that it's only a matter of time until July trips are cancelled.
> 
> https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/5265/


I'm pretty sure it's only for ships in US waters.  I can't imagine how the US CDC could control a river in Europe.

Sayhello


----------



## DisneyWishes14

lovetotravel said:


> So this new CDC "No Sail Order" for 100 days extends to mid July (originally 30 days from March 14).
> 
> https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/s0409-modifications-extension-no-sail-ships.html
> Does this affect cruises in only US waters or also river cruises in Europe? It seems that it's only a matter of time until July trips are cancelled.
> 
> https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/5265/



The CDC announcement is only for waters under US jurisdiction.  I have an ABD Rhine cruise booked in August.  I have been watching the AmaWaterways site for cancellations (you probably know, those are the ships ABD uses for their river cruises) and also watching the global updates on NYTimes and other sources to track individual country's lockdown policies.  For example, it appears Germany will be making an announcement at some point next week regarding the possible extension or easing of lockdown measures.  I will keep my eye out for that.


----------



## helenk

Right now I have a trip booked to Japan that starts July 5th.  I have PIF, so if ABD cancels, I would get a refund or have the chance to apply those funds for a trip next year? I have not booked the flights yet so I don't have to worry about that.


----------



## sayhello

helenk said:


> Right now I have a trip booked to Japan that starts July 5th.  I have PIF, so if ABD cancels, I would get a refund or have the chance to apply those funds for a trip next year? I have not booked the flights yet so I don't have to worry about that.


Correct.  If ABD cancels, they give you the option to move the funds to another departure of your trip, move your funds to another trip altogether or get a full refund.  I am not sure if they are allowing you to park the funds until next year's trips are announced, but by the time a July trip would be cancelled, hopefully next year's trips would have already been announced.  However, I don't know that there is really an advantage to letting ABD hang on to your money if you had to park it.  

Sayhello


----------



## helenk

sayhello said:


> Correct.  If ABD cancels, they give you the option to move the funds to another departure of your trip, move your funds to another trip altogether or get a full refund.  I am not sure if they are allowing you to park the funds until next year's trips are announced, but by the time a July trip would be cancelled, hopefully next year's trips would have already been announced.  However, I don't know that there is really an advantage to letting ABD hang on to your money if you had to park it.
> 
> Sayhello


True I really do not want by $20,000 + sitting for a year. I'd rather have a refund. I really want to do this trip and take the side trip to Tokyo Disneyland, I have been to all of the parks except for Tokyo and it has always been my dream to tour Japan so this trip checks off one of my major bucket lists.


----------



## sayhello

helenk said:


> True I really do not want by $20,000 + sitting for a year. I'd rather have a refund. I really want to do this trip and take the side trip to Tokyo Disneyland, I have been to all of the parks except for Tokyo and it has always been my dream to tour Japan so this trip checks off one of my major bucket lists.


I was in the same boat.  Japan had been a dream of mine for a long time, and I'd also been to all parks but Tokyo Disney Resort.  And it is a *fabulous* itinerary, too.  I do hope you get to go, either this year or next.  You will really love it!

Sayhello


----------



## OhanaCuz

helenk said:


> True I really do not want by $20,000 + sitting for a year. I'd rather have a refund. I really want to do this trip and take the side trip to Tokyo Disneyland, I have been to all of the parks except for Tokyo and it has always been my dream to tour Japan so this trip checks off one of my major bucket lists.



When all of this craziness is over do whatever you can to make that dream happen.  Tokyo DisneySea was incredible.


----------



## Poohlie

Tokyo Disneyland was our final Disney Park too and we made a side trip after the China ABD last summer. I agree with everyone about Tokyo DisneySea - it is spectacular and really like no other park.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

I mentioned in another post, that I've been trying to follow the news regarding Amawaterways to try to get a sense of what may be happening with the ABD river cruises this summer (we are booked on the Rhine in August).  I came across this interesting article this morning in which the co-owner/co-founder and president of Ama is interviewed.  He says one of the biggest questions, even if they can resume cruising in late summer, is if US citizens will be allowed to travel to Europe to board the cruises.  I really hope we get an answer sooner rather than later!

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/new...ng-july-us-big-unknown-amawaterways-schreiner


----------



## TXTransplant

Read this morning that Denali Backcountry Lodge, where we are supposed to stay for two nights during our Nat Geo trip will not be opening until June 13.  And the Seward Windsong Lodge, were we are also supposed to stay for two nights, will not open until June 10.  Our trip runs from June 3-10.

We could maybe switch to the July 15-22 trip, but who knows at this point if that trip will go.  I may call them tomorrow, though, and see if that's an option.  It still shows as "available to book" on their website.  

I will not be changing our flights at this point in time, though.


----------



## OhanaCuz

DisneyWishes14 said:


> I mentioned in a another post, that I've been trying to follow the news regarding Amawaterways to try to get a sense of what may be happening with the ABD river cruises this summer (we are booked on the Rhine in August).  I came across this interesting article this morning in which the co-owner/co-founder and president of Ama is interviewed.  He says one of the biggest questions, even if they can resume cruising in late summer, is if US citizens will be allowed to travel to Europe to board the cruises.  I really hope we get an answer sooner rather than later!



That's really interesting because on our second cruise, which was AMA without Disney, almost every passenger I talked to lived in the USA.  I'm glad they're in a financially sound state because I've really grown to love their cruises.  I want to take another one on one of their lovely boats.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

OhanaCuz said:


> That's really interesting because on our second cruise, which was AMA without Disney, almost every passenger I talked to lived in the USA.  I'm glad they're in a financially sound state because I've really grown to love their cruises.  I want to take another one on one of their lovely boats.



Yes, their stable financial situation struck me as a very positive sign for them!  It also made me think they are in a better position to make decisions solely on guest and crew safety as opposed to revenue and cash flow (though I'm sure they'd prefer not to sacrifice any of those things)  I also liked the point he made about being on the river and always being within a country's borders as opposed to being on an ocean liner and being in international waters.  It actually made river cruising sound a bit safer to me now!  If we can't sail in August, we would very definitely consider rescheduling - Ama always gets such amazing reviews!


----------



## TXTransplant

Just rebooked our Nat Geo Alaska trip for July 15-22.  It was SUPER easy!  One leg of our flight is eligible for a refund due to a schedule change, so I'm going to go ahead and get that process moving.  The other flights, I'll deal with later this month.  I probably won't rebook flights until May or June, depending on how things go.


----------



## debraW76

Disney has updated their terms of use on their website.  I clicked on it to read what has changed and noticed there was a clause saying you will not seek to be a part of a class action suit against Disney.  Does anyone know if this was there before?  I couldn’t easily tell exactly what has changed and wondered if this was due to the virus and them trying to avoid a class action suit.


----------



## Jess_S

I went to the ABD website to take a look at the updated terms of use. My interpretation is that they are terms of use for the website. (Here's some language about what the license terms cover: "The Disney Products, including, but not limited to, movies, television shows, entertainment or informational programming, trailers, bonus material, scripts, code, images and artwork ….") 

If you click on the terms and conditions for the trips themselves, I am not seeing any class action waiver or obligation to arbitrate disputes. So I don't think the new terms are for claims you might have against Disney related to travel and, for that reason, I doubt the change is related to covid.


----------



## debraW76

Jess_S said:


> I went to the ABD website to take a look at the updated terms of use. My interpretation is that they are terms of use for the website. (Here's some language about what the license terms cover: "The Disney Products, including, but not limited to, movies, television shows, entertainment or informational programming, trailers, bonus material, scripts, code, images and artwork ….")
> 
> If you click on the terms and conditions for the trips themselves, I am not seeing any class action waiver or obligation to arbitrate disputes. So I don't think the new terms are for claims you might have against Disney related to travel and, for that reason, I doubt the change is related to covid.


Thanks for clarifying for me.  I hope I didn’t alarm anyone.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

My SoCal/DL PIF is due next Monday (my trip is mid-July).  I watched almost all of CA Gov. Newsom's press conference today and in it he said large scale events that bring in hundreds, thousands or tens of thousands of strangers are not in the cards even into the summer months of June, July, August.  He talked a lot about how, even when they start loosening stay-at-home measures, restaurants will have less tables and people will still have to practice social and physical distancing.  He still hasn't given a real timeline, but just based on these statements, I think there is no way DL will be open in mid-July.  

I'm seriously considering calling ABD's bluff and paying the balance on this trip so I can get a full refund when it's cancelled.  I know, I could be wrong and this trip could be a go - I just don't see how CA calls off school for the rest of the year but allows DL to open.  Maybe it sounds ridiculous to lay out thousands of $$ to save a couple hundred, but I have so many travel credits at this point and I don't want anymore.  Plus there are no SoCal/DL future dates that would work for me right now and rescheduling to another trip would mean having to bring my whole family (this was a solo trip) and costing far more money.  If the trip ends up being a go, I could still swing it (it may be tricky as this whole trip was contingent on my son going to MA for summer school and we have no idea if that's still on!), but . . . . ugh!  I got two reminders this week that my balance is due and it kind of irks me that they want more money right now when they can't even assure me a big part of their own company (DL!) will be open!  I feel like I'm in Vegas right now, but I'm NOT having fun, LOL!


----------



## Grotto

Our delayed PIF for our July Germany trip is due this Friday.  Pretty sure I can cancel my Delta flights with no penalty as one of my legs was already changed by several hours and would cause me to miss my connection (Delta has be stellar throughout this crisis).  I don’t see paying $14000 more and hoping for AbD to cancel later.  Has anyone hit their delayed PIF yet?  If so, what options did Disney offer?  Anything??


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

DisneyWishes14 said:


> My SoCal/DL PIF is due next Monday (my trip is mid-July).  I watched almost all of CA Gov. Newsom's press conference today and in it he said large scale events that bring in hundreds, thousands or tens of thousands of strangers are not in the cards even into the summer months of June, July, August.  He talked a lot about how, even when they start loosening stay-at-home measures, restaurants will have less tables and people will still have to practice social and physical distancing.  He still hasn't given a real timeline, but just based on these statements, I think there is no way DL will be open in mid-July.
> 
> I'm seriously considering calling ABD's bluff and paying the balance on this trip so I can get a full refund when it's cancelled.  I know, I could be wrong and this trip could be a go - I just don't see how CA calls off school for the rest of the year but allows DL to open.  Maybe it sounds ridiculous to lay out thousands of $$ to save a couple hundred, but I have so many travel credits at this point and I don't want anymore.  Plus there are no SoCal/DL future dates that would work for me right now and rescheduling to another trip would mean having to bring my whole family (this was a solo trip) and costing far more money.  If the trip ends up being a go, I could still swing it (it may be tricky as this whole trip was contingent on my son going to MA for summer school and we have no idea if that's still on!), but . . . . ugh!  I got two reminders this week that my balance is due and it kind of irks me that they want more money right now when they can't even assure me a big part of their own company (DL!) will be open!  I feel like I'm in Vegas right now, but I'm NOT having fun, LOL!


This is such a tough one. I watched the governor's speech and had the same thought as you. I can't see how Disneyland or sporting events open in the parameters he was talking about. I'm not sure what I would do in your shoes, but I can totally see why calling their bluff might be on the table. I hate losing money, too, so I totally get it.


----------



## Angell

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...rYT5BVpfkmyhj2hIpVsGwAoF_rE6p_5b80_g4Ghl1t05M

ABD.. it’s time to cancel my Italy trip scheduled to begin on June 5.


----------



## elat27

Angell said:


> https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...rYT5BVpfkmyhj2hIpVsGwAoF_rE6p_5b80_g4Ghl1t05M
> 
> ABD.. it’s time to cancel my Italy trip scheduled to begin on June 5.



I have a June Italy/Switzerland trip too. It appears American Airlines cancelled my flights, so I need my ABD cancellation now.


----------



## neurosx1983

Grotto said:


> Our delayed PIF for our July Germany trip is due this Friday.  Pretty sure I can cancel my Delta flights with no penalty as one of my legs was already changed by several hours and would cause me to miss my connection (Delta has be stellar throughout this crisis).  I don’t see paying $14000 more and hoping for AbD to cancel later.  Has anyone hit their delayed PIF yet?  If so, what options did Disney offer?  Anything??



There's no way I would give ABD a PIF amount of money in the hopes they'll cancel. You should view the deposit you gave them as a potential sunk cost or try and move it to a trip next year (which is what I'm planning to do)
And its unbelievable that even in this crisis they want people to PIF 3 months in advance... I would call (and keep calling) a supervisor at ABD to get some relief. That seems to do the trick at Disney.

And all of you guys hoping they'll cancel now...They'll probably wait until a govt authority literally says they can't travel.


----------



## OKW Lover

debraW76 said:


> I clicked on it to read what has changed and noticed there was a clause saying you will not seek to be a part of a class action suit against Disney. Does anyone know if this was there before? I couldn’t easily tell exactly what has changed and wondered if this was due to the virus and them trying to avoid a class action suit.


That is only for the web site.  There is a separate agreement for actual ABD trips that you fill out when you book one.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

neurosx1983 said:


> There's no way I would give ABD a PIF amount of money in the hopes they'll cancel. You should view the deposit you gave them as a potential sunk cost or try and move it to a trip next year (which is what I'm planning to do)
> And its unbelievable that even in this crisis they want people to PIF 3 months in advance... I would call (and keep calling) a supervisor at ABD to get some relief. That seems to do the trick at Disney.
> 
> And all of you guys hoping they'll cancel now...*They'll probably wait until a govt authority literally says they can't travel.*



Totally agree.  I seriously cannot believe they haven't canceled, at the very least, the June Italy trips.

Our family's only saving grace, I believe, is we booked a river cruise and Ama seems to be way ahead of the curve in terms of cancelling their sailings (so ABD has to follow suit).  With Macron saying he wants to keep France's borders shut until October and Merkel announcing today no large gatherings until after August 31, I don't know how they could possibly sail this summer.  The co-owner of Ama already said in an interview they are prepared to call off the whole 2020 season if necessary.  I'm really hoping with Macron and Merkel's remarks this week, Ama will cancel sooner rather than later and force ABD's hand!


----------



## aggiedog

We have a land trip to France planned and PIF with a French company for June, and airline tickets with AirFrance.  I've been waiting for something official that states we can't travel before contacting them.  The company contacted me today to ask if we'd be ok with a credit for next year since we won't be able to travel this June.  That's generous, as I'm pretty sure they could have just taken our money.  That said, I'm going to ask for a refund since I have no idea what next year will bring financially, but if I can't get that, I'll be happy with credit.  Now to see what happens with the airline tickets.


----------



## laceltris3

aggiedog said:


> We have a land trip to France planned and PIF with a French company for June, and airline tickets with AirFrance.  I've been waiting for something official that states we can't travel before contacting them.  The company contacted me today to ask if we'd be ok with a credit for next year since we won't be able to travel this June.  That's generous, as I'm pretty sure they could have just taken our money.  That said, I'm going to ask for a refund since I have no idea what next year will bring financially, but if I can't get that, I'll be happy with credit.  Now to see what happens with the airline tickets.



I have tickets with Air France in June for our TB Siene river cruise. It'll be cancelled, I am sure. And our flights will be as well, since I have direct flights from Houston and right now AF in only flying to NY/LA. Yesterday (maybe 2 days ago) AF had a special link for people traveling from the US that said they got refunds if the flight was cancelled. It seems that last night, based on the time of the AF operational update, they are now only offering vouchers that are refundable after a year if you do not use them.... Still just playing the waiting game to see if the DOT gets tough, but they seem to be allowing United to get away with it.


----------



## lpm23

laceltris3 said:


> I have tickets with Air France in June for our TB Siene river cruise. It'll be cancelled, I am sure. And our flights will be as well, since I have direct flights from Houston and right now AF in only flying to NY/LA. Yesterday (maybe 2 days ago) AF had a special link for people traveling from the US that said they got refunds if the flight was cancelled. It seems that last night, based on the time of the AF operational update, they are now only offering vouchers that are refundable after a year if you do not use them.... Still just playing the waiting game to see if the DOT gets tough, but they seem to be allowing United to get away with it.


FYI Tauck cancelled all June trips as of today


----------



## Eastridge

neurosx1983 said:


> And all of you guys hoping they'll cancel now...They'll probably wait until a govt authority literally says they can't travel.



Japan has banned the entry of people who have been in the US.  I think that counts as a government authority saying that we can't travel there.

http://www.moj.go.jp/EN/nyuukokukanri/kouhou/m_nyuukokukanri01_00003.html


----------



## disneyholic family

Cousin Orville said:


> Where is that coming from?  I've not seen that.



i'm in israel....that was just a rumor...i can't see how it's possible for that to be true....i'm sure there will be some sort of flight restart before then.....although who knows....
supposedly they're going to start a new phase here next week - or announce it next week....
a slow restart of some kind....
as of sunday, masks here are now required by law and you can be ticketed for not wearing one.
when i delivered something to my son's two days ago (he lives a block away), everyone out to buy groceries for the holiday were wearing masks, even the elementary school kids i saw.....
so seems people are listening to the directives...once everyone is wearing a mask, it no longer seems weird...or not quite as weird... 



helenk said:


> True I really do not want by $20,000 + sitting for a year. I'd rather have a refund. I really want to do this trip and take the side trip to Tokyo Disneyland, I have been to all of the parks except for Tokyo and it has always been my dream to tour Japan so this trip checks off one of my major bucket lists.



eventually this will all be a bad dream, and you'll get to tokyo...

my bucket list is to take the entire family to japan (kids and grandkids)....
it was sort of my second home when i was growing up, so it's not just to the parks, but there as well...

we'll all get there.....i doubt this year, but certainly next year we'll all be traveling and flying and cruising again....

.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

lpm23 said:


> FYI Tauck cancelled all June trips as of today



Wow.  I just checked out their site and the page that announced the cancellations.  Their cancellation and change terms for July are really generous - 30 day PIF and you can get a travel credit even if you cancel after PIF.  We haven't traveled with Tauck for over a decade, but I would definitely give them another look now.


----------



## laceltris3

lpm23 said:


> FYI Tauck cancelled all June trips as of today


Thanks. I didn’t get an email and suppose I will take a refund. It’s heartbreaking because my oldest is going into high school and we only have so many trips left. I am thankful that we are not out any money, except for the terrible Air France vouchers we will receive.


----------



## NitroStitch

We just got our ABD handbook for our early August Rhine cruise. Ugh. It would have been so exciting otherwise.


----------



## Rapunzellover

Eastridge said:


> Japan has banned the entry of people who have been in the US.



I gotta say, I know a lot of countries are on that list but, I'm worried if the US doesn't handle this properly, while everyone else kicks COVID-19's butt, that we'll become travel pariahs,  and subject to quarantine with any overseas travel.


----------



## debraW76

Delta cancelled our May 31 flight to Italy for our June 2 Italy ABD trip.  The email said I would receive an e-credit but I called and requested a refund.  The call took a while but he said we should see the credit to our AMEX card in 7-10 days.  
I’m calling Disney today to see if they will also refund me the ABD portion since my flight has been cancelled.


----------



## neurosx1983

NitroStitch said:


> We just got our ABD handbook for our early August Rhine cruise. Ugh. It would have been so exciting otherwise.



I know it's so depressing to see those unused ABD boxes! I keep staring sadly at the England/France box and luggage tags sitting in my closet.


----------



## sayhello

debraW76 said:


> Delta cancelled our May 31 flight to Italy for our June 2 Italy ABD trip.  The email said I would receive an e-credit but I called and requested a refund.  The call took a while but he said we should see the credit to our AMEX card in 7-10 days.
> I’m calling Disney today to see if they will also refund me the ABD portion since my flight has been cancelled.


Let us know your results!   Personally, I doubt they will, because if the tour is still going, they expect you to just find a new way there.  It's highly likely ABD will end up cancelling the tour, but they wait until they absolutely have to.  Don't cancel on your own, as there's no advantage to that.  You'd be best off playing "chicken" with them.



Rapunzellover said:


> I gotta say, I know a lot of countries are on that list but, I'm worried if the US doesn't handle this properly, while everyone else kicks COVID-19's butt, that we'll become travel pariahs,  and subject to quarantine with any overseas travel.


Unfortunately, that's a highly likely result.  It's actually already started.



neurosx1983 said:


> I know it's so depressing to see those unused ABD boxes! I keep staring sadly at the England/France box and luggage tags sitting in my closet.


Because I was doing a River Cruise, I actually even have the duffle bag, with the note asking me to bring it on the cruise with me.    For some reason they send it ahead of time.

Sayhello


----------



## neurosx1983

debraW76 said:


> Delta cancelled our May 31 flight to Italy for our June 2 Italy ABD trip.  The email said I would receive an e-credit but I called and requested a refund.  The call took a while but he said we should see the credit to our AMEX card in 7-10 days.
> I’m calling Disney today to see if they will also refund me the ABD portion since my flight has been cancelled.



ABD isn't going to cancel just because your flight was cancelled (I know its counter intuitive)
If I were you I'd wait a few more weeks. It seems very likely that they'll cancel the June Italy trips. Wait till the last second.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

NitroStitch said:


> We just got our ABD handbook for our early August Rhine cruise. Ugh. It would have been so exciting otherwise.



I got it too!  When I opened the e-mail, my first thought was "nothing to see here folks"!  I've been getting payment reminders from ABD as well.  They just don't seem to want to recognize in any way that the world around them has completely changed.  It all seems very cold and automated to me.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

Rapunzellover said:


> I gotta say, I know a lot of countries are on that list but, I'm worried if the US doesn't handle this properly, while everyone else kicks COVID-19's butt, that we'll become travel pariahs,  and subject to quarantine with any overseas travel.



I was thinking the same thing this morning!  With calls for expanded testing and contact tracing needing to be in place in order to re-open economies - if the US can't implement or keep up with other countries in these areas, there is no way they are letting us in any time soon.  I'm just outside NYC and even other US states don't want me coming anywhere near them right now, LOL!


----------



## lovetotravel

If ABD cancels a trip and you have ABD insurance, is the premium for ABD insurance refundable or transferable to a new ABD trip?

I am asking because I buy insurance OYO and not with ABD. If ABD refunds the insurance, this is yet another reason to buy ABD insurance + ABD air to get the most refund. My OYO insurance is not transferable so I will be out of money if ABD cancels me.

My old ways of booking and making travel arrangements are now out the window. I need new strategies post COVID-19.


----------



## disdel

debraW76 said:


> Delta cancelled our May 31 flight to Italy for our June 2 Italy ABD trip.  The email said I would receive an e-credit but I called and requested a refund.  The call took a while but he said we should see the credit to our AMEX card in 7-10 days.
> I’m calling Disney today to see if they will also refund me the ABD portion since my flight has been cancelled.


Glad to hear Delta handled it appropriately. I hope you get the same from ABD. Please let us know. Given the accounts here, I'm thinking you'd better get to rowing across the Atlantic
I'll have to make my own phone call soon re: our September ABD on the Danube. ( please, AMA, pull the plug now and force ABD's hand ).


----------



## sayhello

lovetotravel said:


> If ABD cancels a trip and you have ABD insurance, is the premium for ABD insurance refundable or transferable to a new ABD trip?
> 
> I am asking because I buy insurance OYO and not with ABD. If ABD refunds the insurance, this is yet another reason to buy ABD insurance + ABD air to get the most refund. My OYO insurance is not transferable so I will be out of money if ABD cancels me.
> 
> My old ways of booking and making travel arrangements are now out the window. I need new strategies post COVID-19.


Personally, I'd look into outside travel insurance that is transferable.  Lots of them are (mine is).  The ABD coverage generally costs so much extra that you're paying the equivalent of 2 policies anyways, with much lower coverage.   But it never hurts to price out the ABD policy.

Sayhello


----------



## Theta

lovetotravel said:


> My OYO insurance is not transferable so I will be out of money if ABD cancels me.



I would double check on whether your insurance is transferable.  Many OYO insurance companies are actually refunding insurance premiums.  I was able to get the insurance premium from two separate trips fully refunded to my credit card. 

Search your insurance company's website for transfer or refund forms.  Good luck!


----------



## Calfan

DisneyWishes14 said:


> Wow.  I just checked out their site and the page that announced the cancellations.  Their cancellation and change terms for July are really generous - 30 day PIF and you can get a travel credit even if you cancel after PIF.  We haven't traveled with Tauck for over a decade, but I would definitely give them another look now.



Tauck has a Japan itinerary that is my current front-runner for our redo of Japan in 2022.


----------



## lovetotravel

Theta said:


> I would double check on whether your insurance is transferable.  Many OYO insurance companies are actually refunding insurance premiums.  I was able to get the insurance premium from two separate trips fully refunded to my credit card.
> 
> Search your insurance company's website for transfer or refund forms.  Good luck!


My policy has a 14 day review period for a premium refund, which I am way past. But I will double check.


----------



## lovetotravel

sayhello said:


> Personally, I'd look into outside travel insurance that is transferable.  Lots of them are (mine is).  The ABD coverage generally costs so much extra that you're paying the equivalent of 2 policies anyways, with much lower coverage.   But it never hurts to price out the ABD policy.
> 
> Sayhello


Great idea about looking for an OYO transferable insurance!

Yet I like the idea that I can just get a refund on ABD insurance if cancelled, so I'm not obligated to take a trip.


----------



## NitroStitch

DisneyWishes14 said:


> I got it too!  When I opened the e-mail, my first thought was "nothing to see here folks"!  I've been getting payment reminders from ABD as well.  They just don't seem to want to recognize in any way that the world around them has completely changed.  It all seems very cold and automated to me.



That was my feeling as well. They are all about business as usual instead of at least acknowledging the they (and we) are monitoring the situation closely. I can't imagine the trip will go forward, but it sounds as though we will be waiting until very close to the trip to know for sure. Or until AMA Waterways cancels. It's very tone deaf compared to all the other travel related messages I've been getting.


----------



## laceltris3

I always been able to transfer my insurance to another trip. Once I accidentally insured the same DCL twice, and I was able to just move one of them to my next trip. 

I am sad that Tauck cancelled all of June. I knew I wasn't going to France, but was hoping to be able to transfer to the Dakotas or Alaska or Canadian Rockies this summer. But I very much appreciate that they are so proactive. I would despise playing cancellation chicken like ABD is doing right now.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

I received notice last night that one leg of our flight back from Sweden (Amsterdam to Toronto) has been cancelled. I haven't heard anything from Scott Dunn in weeks.

Worse than Scott Dunn (who has at least told me to consider my trip cancelled) is Quark, whose CSRs still tow the company line that their first cruise, scheduled to depart Aberdeen on April 30th, is still a go  . I can't believe anyone could possibly think that that cruise is going to leave port. Given that they haven't cancelled it yet, it seems likely that I will be playing "chicken" with them right up until a week or so before our June 6th departure. I would *never* travel with Quark after the abysmal way they are handling this situation (like nothing is going on in the world around them).


----------



## lovetotravel

laceltris3 said:


> I always been able to transfer my insurance to another trip. Once I accidentally insured the same DCL twice, and I was able to just move one of them to my next trip.
> 
> I am sad that Tauck cancelled all of June. I knew I wasn't going to France, but was hoping to be able to transfer to the Dakotas or Alaska or Canadian Rockies this summer. But I very much appreciate that they are so proactive. I would despise playing cancellation chicken like ABD is doing right now.





Theta said:


> I would double check on whether your insurance is transferable.  Many OYO insurance companies are actually refunding insurance premiums.  I was able to get the insurance premium from two separate trips fully refunded to my credit card.
> 
> Search your insurance company's website for transfer or refund forms.  Good luck!


Thank you @Theta for encouraging me to recheck my policy. I just finished my conversation with my OYO insurance. Because I incurred non-refundable fees and penalties (an airline gave me a partial refund), I am unable to transfer my insurance.

So the lesson is that my travel insurance does transfer as long as I did not incur any penalties, which I did, so now I cannot transfer it anyway. My travel agent originally told me that my travel insurance does not transfer so I am glad I called the insurance company myself.

I am learning a lot through this process! Bottom line, I should argue for a full refund from all vendors, because when one decides not to give a full refund, it will jeopardize a full premium refund/transfer to another trip!

I really value everyone on this board for all the help and assistance in navigating all the complexities of travel arrangements, esp during these times!


----------



## sayhello

lovetotravel said:


> Thank you @Theta for encouraging me to recheck my policy. I just finished my conversation with my OYO insurance. Because I incurred non-refundable fees and penalties (an airline gave me a partial refund), I am unable to transfer my insurance.
> 
> So the lesson is that my travel insurance does transfer as long as I did not incur any penalties, which I did, so now I cannot transfer it anyway. My travel agent originally told me that my travel insurance does not transfer so I am glad I called the insurance company myself.
> 
> I am learning a lot through this process! Bottom line, I should argue for a full refund from all vendors, because when one decides not to give a full refund, it will jeopardize a full premium refund/transfer to another trip!
> 
> I really value everyone on this board for all the help and assistance in navigating all the complexities of travel arrangements, esp during these times!


Is the insurance company going to cover those non-refundable fees and penalties?  I would assume that's why they can't transfer it?

Sayhello


----------



## lovetotravel

sayhello said:


> Is the insurance company going to cover those non-refundable fees and penalties?  I would assume that's why they can't transfer it?
> 
> Sayhello


Yes they are but it was a few hundred dollars, whereas the insurance cost was over a thousand. Airlines are pretty inflexible and I had a non-refundable airfare so I was pretty happy with the refund. But now realized I should have begged for a full refund. And yes the non-refundable penalties incurred will not allow you to transfer the trip insurance, and again I did not know that until today.

I also cancelled another trip and the only one that prevented that full refund was a private tour guide who I paid via PayPal and would only refund half of my deposit. But I was already under the impression that I could not transfer my insurance per my travel agent.

I will be really carefully moving forward now how I book my future trips, what tour company, airline, insurance, and how I pay. Many lessons learned!!!


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

DisneyWishes14 said:


> I got it too!  When I opened the e-mail, my first thought was "nothing to see here folks"!  I've been getting payment reminders from ABD as well.  They just don't seem to want to recognize in any way that the world around them has completely changed.  It all seems very cold and automated to me.


OMG this!!! ABD is the worst offender but DCL, DVC, and the parks aren't far behind. It floors me when I see people talking about how well Disney is handling things. IMO Disney is lagging far behind others in the industry in basically every respect. They aren't cancelling things until the last possible minute. One of my latest boondoggles is the DVC threads (I am a DVC owner but I don't follow those threads all that regularly). The Disney resorts not cancelling rooms until a couple weeks out is causing a lot of issues for renters/owners. I could go on, but I won't bore you all since I've said it before  



Calfan said:


> Tauck has a Japan itinerary that is my current front-runner for our redo of Japan in 2022.


Tauck has clearly come out as one of the winners in this (and Delta and Southwest). Love how they are handling this horrible situation. If anyone has a reservation with them and is talking to them, please pass on from me that they are gaining customers and lots of good word of mouth from their response to this.


----------



## MiddKid

neurosx1983 said:


> I know it's so depressing to see those unused ABD boxes! I keep staring sadly at the England/France box and luggage tags sitting in my closet.



Is there a typical timing for these “boxes” people are referencing?  We’re ABD first-timers with a July 4 Norway trip.  No box yet.  I think I saw someone reference a box for their August trip. Should we have received anything for July 4, or do the timelines vary by trip?

I only ask because I’m convinced we’re not going (even if it’s “on” we’ll likely cancel) and was wondering if not receiving a box was an indicator for a planned cancellation on ABD’s end...long shot, I know, but you’d think they’d plan ahead and stop shipping just like how WDW announced cancellation of MagicBand shipments.


----------



## Dis87ney

MiddKid said:


> Is there a typical timing for these “boxes” people are referencing?  We’re ABD first-timers with a July 4 Norway trip.  No box yet.  I think I saw someone reference a box for their August trip. Should we have received anything for July 4, or do the timelines vary by trip?
> 
> I only ask because I’m convinced we’re not going (even if it’s “on” we’ll likely cancel) and was wondering if not receiving a box was an indicator for a planned cancellation on ABD’s end...long shot, I know, but you’d think they’d plan ahead and stop shipping just like how WDW announced cancellation of MagicBand shipments.


I was wondering the same as our June ABD "is still scheduled" for June 19th and still no box


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Here is the Quark April 14th update (from their website):

_We are monitoring travel restrictions daily.  At present, Quark Expeditions’ first Arctic 2020 voyages are scheduled to embark on May 1, 2020. All departures remain on schedule._

If they are monitoring travel restrictions then they would *know* that passengers from other countries would not be able to get to Europe for the cruise. They contradict themselves with the above statement. Clearly they are wanting passengers to cancel their May and June departures and take a voucher for next year (which doesn't work for us).


----------



## Cousin Orville

lovetotravel said:


> I will be really carefully moving forward now how I book my future trips, what tour company, airline, insurance, and how I pay. Many lessons learned!!!



Agreed.  I've typically paid for trips well in advance.  That's going to stop.  I'll avoid booking private tours that require paying in full ahead of time.  I'll be avoiding smaller travel companies that are at risk of becoming insolvent.  If I'm using travel specialists, I'll be choosing companies that do not hold my money as a middle man.  We've been lucky over the years many of these issues.  But recently we had a major luxury travel specialist go bankrupt and screwing up our Morocco trip.  Thankfully we got most of our money back, but a lot of the rules have change recently on whether travel insurance will cover insolvency.  At this point now, we're still waiting up to 6 wks on a private tour company in Alaska to refund a paid in full tour.  Hopefully they don't go bankrupt.  We've got a tour to Peru that we had to cancel prior to the shutdown orders of Peru.  The refund would have been a lot less than the credit.  So we're taking the credit and hoping they stay afloat.  Overall, I'll just be more critical with the travel providers I'm choosing.


----------



## Cousin Orville

My concern would be how well are some of these smaller travel companies doing financially having to cancel an entire season and refund trips.  Hard to imagine they would go bankrupt, but what's really preventing that situation?  Their entire revenue stream is drying up at the same time they're having to refund everyone.  I'm not concerned about the airlines.  Most of our domestic carriers will get stimulus money.  But I am concerned on some of these smaller to midsize travel providers.  One thing is for sure, those company's that are handling the customer service well and end up financially sound on the other side of this are very well run companies.


----------



## sayhello

Cousin Orville said:


> My concern would be how well are some of these smaller travel companies doing financially having to cancel an entire season and refund trips.  Hard to imagine they would go bankrupt, but what's really preventing that situation?  Their entire revenue stream is drying up at the same time they're having to refund everyone.  I'm not concerned about the airlines.  Most of our domestic carriers will get stimulus money.  But I am concerned on some of these smaller to midsize travel providers.  One thing is for sure, those company's that are handling the customer service well and end up financially sound on the other side of this are very well run companies.


Yes, The only outstanding situation I have is with a company doing a Food tour in Lyon.  They sent out an email that the tour was cancelled, with a link to a Google docs form to "apply for a credit", and the caution that they let their support staff go, and will let us know about the credit "after this crisis is over".   I'm not hopeful about that, and honestly don't want a credit.  I'm thinking about contacting my credit card company to see if they'll do something for me.   I had one other tour company that asked that my refund be taken as a non-expiring voucher (Fat Tire Tours).  They're medium-sized, and do have tours in multiple countries, including the USA.  It was for less than $30, so I took the voucher.  

Also, I just called my trip insurance company, as I was waiting until the airfare was refunded, and they are actually going to give me a refund due to the circumstances, rather than transferring it.  So, overall, except for the fact that I have no vacation and ABD took forever to cancel, it all went better than expected.

Sayhello


----------



## neurosx1983

Have you guys found any OYO travel insurance companies that provide cancel for any reason? Not just in the form of credit, but in actual cash back if cancel for any reason? I'd imagine its expensive but I'm sure a lot of people will be looking into those...


----------



## lovetotravel

Cousin Orville said:


> My concern would be how well are some of these smaller travel companies doing financially having to cancel an entire season and refund trips.  Hard to imagine they would go bankrupt, but what's really preventing that situation?  Their entire revenue stream is drying up at the same time they're having to refund everyone.  I'm not concerned about the airlines.  Most of our domestic carriers will get stimulus money.  But I am concerned on some of these smaller to midsize travel providers.  One thing is for sure, those company's that are handling the customer service well and end up financially sound on the other side of this are very well run companies.


It certainly seems like travel reservations were a gamble this year. If we booked with the right company we got our money back. For me, the smaller airlines and private guides gave me the most problems with refunds.


----------



## lovetotravel

neurosx1983 said:


> Have you guys found any OYO travel insurance companies that provide cancel for any reason? Not just in the form of credit, but in actual cash back if cancel for any reason? I'd imagine its expensive but I'm sure a lot of people will be looking into those...


TravelSafe is what I used for CFAR and got really great rates, much less than ABD insurance and 75% cash back.


----------



## lovetotravel

sayhello said:


> Also, I just called my trip insurance company, as I was waiting until the airfare was refunded, and they are actually going to give me a refund due to the circumstances, rather than transferring it.  So, overall, except for the fact that I have no vacation and ABD took forever to cancel, it all went better than expected.
> 
> Sayhello


@sayhello, please share your travel insurance company! I'd love to look into it since they are giving you are full refund of premium!! TravelSafe offers a credit from my conversation today, if I didn't have any non-refundable issues.


----------



## TXTransplant

sayhello said:


> Yes, The only outstanding situation I have is with a company doing a Food tour in Lyon.  They sent out an email that the tour was cancelled, with a link to a Google docs form to "apply for a credit", and the caution that they let their support staff go, and will let us know about the credit "after this crisis is over".   I'm not hopeful about that, and honestly don't want a credit.  I'm thinking about contacting my credit card company to see if they'll do something for me.   I had one other tour company that asked that my refund be taken as a non-expiring voucher (Fat Tire Tours).  They're medium-sized, and do have tours in multiple countries, including the USA.  It was for less than $30, so I took the voucher.
> 
> Also, I just called my trip insurance company, as I was waiting until the airfare was refunded, and they are actually going to give me a refund due to the circumstances, rather than transferring it.  So, overall, except for the fact that I have no vacation and ABD took forever to cancel, it all went better than expected.
> 
> Sayhello



Y'all's stories are reminding me of a tour we booked during our trip to Hawaii in 2018.  We wanted to see the sunset on Mauna Kea and booked a tour with a small company called Mauna Kea Summit Adventures.  I think these Mauna Kea tours are the only thing they do.  The island was already being hit hard that summer by the eruption of Kilauea.  Anyway, we get picked up for our tour and drive to the visitors' center where we ate dinner (provided by the company as part of the tour), and then we proceeded up to the summit.  By the time we got up there, so many clouds had rolled in that visibility might have been 30 feet.  You could barely even see the telescopes.  It had started to mist, and after driving around for a bit, a park ranger told our driver they were closing the summit because they were afraid the road was going to start icing over.

On the way back down, our driver said we would be getting a refund minus $25 for each person, and that $25 was to cover dinner and his time/gas that it took to get to the summit (which was completely fine by me...dinner was good and the guide was very entertaining!).

By the time I got home, I had a FULL refund.  They didn't keep a single penny.  Obviously, they did not have to do this, as the bad weather we experienced was completely out of their control.

Last season was rough for them too, because of all of the protests surrounding the construction of a new telescope.  The road to the summit was closed for a while because the protesters were blocking it.  And now this season they are shut down for Coronavirus.

I honestly do not know how they are still in business, but I have every intention of going back to the Big Island at some point, and if this company is still operating, I WILL do that Mauna Kea summit sunset tour again!

As a side note, I usually book Airbnb for pre-days for all our trips.  I've always had the policy that I only book listings that have the most lenient cancellation policy (I NEVER book the ones with the strict policy).  Usually that means my options are limited, but I've still managed to find fantastic places to stay and have never had any issues.  The hosts at the house we stayed in on the Big Island were amazing (thankfully, the eruption did not affect that property, but it was close), and I just rebooked our Anchorage Airbnb for July with no problems.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Oh boy. I just received notification from Air Canada that they have significantly changed our October flights (for Egypt ABD). Instead of flying to Madrid (and spending 3 days there touring pre-trip), then on to Cairo, they now have us flying to Munich, with no word on how we would get from Munich to Cairo. I know I could cancel based on this change, but I was hoping that this trip might actually go.

AC846
Departing Toronto, Lester B. Pearson Intl (YYZ) on October 15, 2020 @ 17:30*
-- Departure Terminal 1
Arriving in Munich, Munich International (MUC) on October 16, 2020 @ 07:20*
-- Arrival Terminal 2

Reason: Government travel advisory


----------



## laceltris3

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> Oh boy. I just received notification from Air Canada that they have significantly changed our October flights (for Egypt ABD). Instead of flying to Madrid (and spending 3 days there touring pre-trip), then on to Cairo, they now have us flying to Munich, with no word on how we would get from Munich to Cairo. I know I could cancel based on this change, but I was hoping that this trip might actually go.
> 
> AC846
> Departing Toronto, Lester B. Pearson Intl (YYZ) on October 15, 2020 @ 17:30*
> -- Departure Terminal 1
> Arriving in Munich, Munich International (MUC) on October 16, 2020 @ 07:20*
> -- Arrival Terminal 2
> 
> Reason: Government travel advisory


I would cancel your airfare based on this and wait. If the trip does go, I am pretty sure you can get flights for cheaper than you paid pre-pandemic. Or use ABD for the replacement flights for ease of cancellation outcomes.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

MiddKid said:


> Is there a typical timing for these “boxes” people are referencing?  We’re ABD first-timers with a July 4 Norway trip.  No box yet.  I think I saw someone reference a box for their August trip. Should we have received anything for July 4, or do the timelines vary by trip?
> 
> I only ask because I’m convinced we’re not going (even if it’s “on” we’ll likely cancel) and was wondering if not receiving a box was an indicator for a planned cancellation on ABD’s end...long shot, I know, but you’d think they’d plan ahead and stop shipping just like how WDW announced cancellation of MagicBand shipments.



Funny you should mention MagicBands and completely OT, but we had a trip to WDW scheduled for March 17.  We go pretty often so I declined our MagicBands and, of course, that trip eventually got cancelled.  Wouldn't you know it, a few days before we were supposed to travel and around the time WDW announced their closure, a small box filled with gray MagicBands for our March 17 trip showed up on our doorstep, LOL!  It's a very sad reminder of the trip that just wasn't meant to be.



*WDW*Groupie* said:


> Oh boy. I just received notification from Air Canada that they have significantly changed our October flights (for Egypt ABD). Instead of flying to Madrid (and spending 3 days there touring pre-trip), then on to Cairo, they now have us flying to Munich, with no word on how we would get from Munich to Cairo. I know I could cancel based on this change, but I was hoping that this trip might actually go.
> 
> AC846
> Departing Toronto, Lester B. Pearson Intl (YYZ) on October 15, 2020 @ 17:30*
> -- Departure Terminal 1
> Arriving in Munich, Munich International (MUC) on October 16, 2020 @ 07:20*
> -- Arrival Terminal 2
> 
> Reason: Government travel advisory



Wait - you mean you purchased a connecting flight to Cairo, but they changed it and they are now flying you to Munich?!


----------



## Cousin Orville

laceltris3 said:


> I would cancel your airfare based on this and wait. If the trip does go, I am pretty sure you can get flights for cheaper than you paid pre-pandemic. Or use ABD for the replacement flights for ease of cancellation outcomes.



I agree with this strategy.  I'd cancel and reschedule through ABD.


----------



## lovetotravel

Cousin Orville said:


> I agree with this strategy.  I'd cancel and reschedule through ABD.


Agree with this also! Book ABD air!


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

laceltris3 said:


> I would cancel your airfare based on this and wait. If the trip does go, I am pretty sure you can get flights for cheaper than you paid pre-pandemic. Or use ABD for the replacement flights for ease of cancellation outcomes.


I booked the flights on Aeroplan points. I just checked dh's account and strangely it shows both flights on the same day (Toronto to Madrid and Toronto to Munich). The flight from Madrid to Cairo is still listed as well. Based on the e-mail from Air Canada it seems like the leg from Toronto to Madrid has been cancelled. I will have to call Aeroplan and figure out a flight from Munich to Cairo. Ds doesn't want to travel until there's a vaccine, so he's hoping that ABD will cancel the trip. I didn't buy insurance for this trip yet, so will wait and see how things play out.


----------



## sayhello

lovetotravel said:


> @sayhello, please share your travel insurance company! I'd love to look into it since they are giving you are full refund of premium!! TravelSafe offers a credit from my conversation today, if I didn't have any non-refundable issues.


The insurance company was IMG (International Medical Group iTravelInsured SE).  But they do NOT normally give refunds for this.  This is a special courtesy due to the circumstances (cancellation by my tour company & airline due to COVID-19).  And that was also because I got full refunds AND wasn't going to make any claims.

Sayhello


----------



## Eastridge

MiddKid said:


> Is there a typical timing for these “boxes” people are referencing?  We’re ABD first-timers with a July 4 Norway trip.  No box yet.  I think I saw someone reference a box for their August trip. Should we have received anything for July 4, or do the timelines vary by trip?



Good point.  In past years, I recall receiving the boxes about two months prior to the start of the trip.

If people on trips that are scheduled to depart in early to mid June have not yet received boxes, maybe that is a sign that ABD expects to cancel those trips.


----------



## disneyholic family

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> OMG this!!! ABD is the worst offender but DCL, DVC, and the parks aren't far behind. It floors me when I see people talking about how well Disney is handling things. IMO Disney is lagging far behind others in the industry in basically every respect. They aren't cancelling things until the last possible minute. One of my latest boondoggles is the DVC threads (I am a DVC owner but I don't follow those threads all that regularly). The Disney resorts not cancelling rooms until a couple weeks out is causing a lot of issues for renters/owners. I could go on, but I won't bore you all since I've said it before



i haven't been following DVC either. My daugther's going to cancel her august DVC trip.  She used current and borrowed, so from what i understand, the borrowed will go back to the original year (and she'll bank her current year points, as she still has time to do that). If she can't move the borrowed points back, then she'll try to rent them out.  She doesn't need them next year since she'll be on our points for the big family trip in 2021.
As for that 2021 DVC trip,  I assume my biggest problem is going to be competing with all the pent up demand from this year when i make our reservations.



neurosx1983 said:


> Have you guys found any OYO travel insurance companies that provide cancel for any reason? Not just in the form of credit, but in actual cash back if cancel for any reason? I'd imagine its expensive but I'm sure a lot of people will be looking into those...



Cancel for any reason might not cover this situation.  Not sure how cancel for any reason deals with acts of god.  And i would think that going forward, insurance companies will be especially careful about putting something in the contract that reduces their liability.



*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I booked the flights on Aeroplan points. I just checked dh's account and strangely it shows both flights on the same day (Toronto to Madrid and Toronto to Munich). The flight from Madrid to Cairo is still listed as well. Based on the e-mail from Air Canada it seems like the leg from Toronto to Madrid has been cancelled. I will have to call Aeroplan and figure out a flight from Munich to Cairo. Ds doesn't want to travel until there's a vaccine, so he's hoping that ABD will cancel the trip. I didn't buy insurance for this trip yet, so will wait and see how things play out.



I'm with your Ds.  International travel in the age of covid 19 and in the absence of a vaccine seems to be asking for trouble.

.


----------



## neurosx1983

disneyholic family said:


> I'm with your Ds.  International travel in the age of covid 19 and in the absence of a vaccine seems to be asking for trouble.



I wonder how many of us are going to focus on ABDs domestically for the next year or two? The Wyoming and Montana trips are looking more appealing now!  As is the SoCal one/Backstage magic.

Truthfully though, most other countries are much safer right now than where we live in thy NYC metro area. I've been working at the hospitals and things are truly horrific, and this is not even as bad as it is in NYC proper. Hopefully we're hitting the peak this week and next week...


----------



## Candycane83

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I booked the flights on Aeroplan points. I just checked dh's account and strangely it shows both flights on the same day (Toronto to Madrid and Toronto to Munich). The flight from Madrid to Cairo is still listed as well. Based on the e-mail from Air Canada it seems like the leg from Toronto to Madrid has been cancelled. I will have to call Aeroplan and figure out a flight from Munich to Cairo. Ds doesn't want to travel until there's a vaccine, so he's hoping that ABD will cancel the trip. I didn't buy insurance for this trip yet, so will wait and see how things play out.


Hmm interesting, I booked with Lufthansa and my flight is from Madrid back to Toronto this July. Haven’t seen anything yet but I’m anxiously waiting. I’m waiting for Spain to announce borders are closed to see if I can get a full refund on my flight and hotels...


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

disneyholic family said:


> i haven't been following DVC either. My daugther's going to cancel her august DVC trip.  She used current and borrowed, so from what i understand, the borrowed will go back to the original year (and she'll bank her current year points, as she still has time to do that). If she can't move the borrowed points back, then she'll try to rent them out.  She doesn't need them next year since she'll be on our points for the big family trip in 2021.
> As for that 2021 DVC trip,  I assume my biggest problem is going to be competing with all the pent up demand from this year when i make our reservations.


I had a reservation with current and borrowed points at the end of my use year. DVC allowed me to put the borrowed points back, but they are still trying to figure out how to handle people like me who will be losing points in current use year due to resort closing because of April/June use years (mine is June). As far as I know, DVC is still allowing borrowed points to be returned to their original year, but people are speculating that might not be forever.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

neurosx1983 said:


> *I wonder how many of us are going to focus on ABDs domestically for the next year or two? The Wyoming and Montana trips are looking more appealing now!*  As is the SoCal one/Backstage magic.
> 
> Truthfully though, most other countries are much safer right now than where we live in thy NYC metro area. I've been working at the hospitals and things are truly horrific, and this is not even as bad as it is in NYC proper. Hopefully we're hitting the peak this week and next week...



I was thinking the same thing this morning.  If we end up with a credit or I need to move a deposit from our Rhine Cruise, I will definitely be looking at the domestic ABDs.   

We live just 20 miles north of NYC so we must live fairly close to one another.  Thank you for the work you are doing.


----------



## elat27

New cancellations were posted on ABD site update. I still can't believe they haven't gotten to the June Italy trips yet. Here are some of the newest cancellations.

Amsterdam Escape: June 21; July 5, 2020
Budapest Escape: June 25, 2020
Paris Escape: June 9 & 18, 2020


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Candycane83 said:


> Hmm interesting, I booked with Lufthansa and my flight is from Madrid back to Toronto this July. Haven’t seen anything yet but I’m anxiously waiting. I’m waiting for Spain to announce borders are closed to see if I can get a full refund on my flight and hotels...



I spoke with Aeroplan yesterday (the CSR said business has been very slow and they are announcing major layoffs today). The leg from Toronto to Madrid was indeed cancelled. She kindly booked a flight from Munich to Cairo for us, leaving Munich at 5:30pm. I was offered a flight from Toronto to Lisbon and Lisbon to Madrid on October 16th, but it was on TAP Portugual; I declined for 2 reasons: i) I am not keen on connecting flights and ii) I have read some not-so-nice reviews of business class on TAP Portugual. We have never been to Munich, so while not our top choice of cities to visit, we will make the best of it. This is on the assumption that the ABD Egypt trip leaves in October and that if it does, we feel comfortable getting on a plane to take the trip.

If the ABD Egypt doesn't leave or we decide not to risk travel I will be looking at a 2021 Backstage Magic trip. It has been on my list for a very long time.


----------



## SirDuff

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I spoke with Aeroplan yesterday (the CSR said business has been very slow and they are announcing major layoffs today). The leg from Toronto to Madrid was indeed cancelled. She kindly booked a flight from Munich to Cairo for us, leaving Munich at 5:30pm. I was offered a flight from Toronto to Lisbon and Lisbon to Madrid on October 16th, but it was on TAP Portugual; I declined for 2 reasons: i) I am not keen on connecting flights and ii) I have read some not-so-nice reviews of business class on TAP Portugual. We have never been to Munich, so while not our top choice of cities to visit, we will make the best of it. This is on the assumption that the ABD Egypt trip leaves in October and that if it does, we feel comfortable getting on a plane to take the trip.
> 
> If the ABD Egypt doesn't leave or we decide not to risk travel I will be looking at a 2021 Backstage Magic trip. It has been on my list for a very long time.



You could also ask to go via Zurich, Frankfurt, or Vienna (all on Star Alliance airlines).  I will not that very few of the Europe to Cairo flights are really business class (one of the FRA-CAI flights in LH does have an international business class) but the flights are short so it isn't a big deal.  You will have the seat beside you blocked (so, if it is three across, no one is in the middle seat; if it is two across, you get both seats) and improved food, but that's about it.

I'm assuming that you're on Lufthansa not Egypt Air.  I've never done Egypt Air so I cannot speak to it.  Though I thought the MUC to CAI flight was late night (like 10pm), not 5:30pm, so maybe schedules have changed (I've not traveled there since December - my March and April trips were cancelled).


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

SirDuff said:


> You could also ask to go via Zurich, Frankfurt, or Vienna (all on Star Alliance airlines).  I will not that very few of the Europe to Cairo flights are really business class (one of the FRA-CAI flights in LH does have an international business class) but the flights are short so it isn't a big deal.  You will have the seat beside you blocked (so, if it is three across, no one is in the middle seat; if it is two across, you get both seats) and improved food, but that's about it.
> 
> I'm assuming that you're on Lufthansa not Egypt Air.  I've never done Egypt Air so I cannot speak to it.  Though I thought the MUC to CAI flight was late night (like 10pm), not 5:30pm, so maybe schedules have changed (I've not traveled there since December - my March and April trips were cancelled).


We have been to Zurich (twice) and Vienna (LOVED the food and coffee menu on Vienna Air); we have flown through Frankfurt but never toured the city. I am okay with a few days in Munich -- I think it would be fun to explore for a few days (still have research to do on what to do / see). I am not certain if this trip will go so didn't really put much thought into the re-routing, though I am disappointed we won't get to tour Madrid.

The flight from Munich to Cairo is on Egypt Air and departs at 3:55pm (just checked the Aeroplan website). It's only 3h55mins, so I'm okay with the layout, as long as we get decent food.


----------



## lovetotravel

Here I was, sitting patiently waiting for my American Airlines refund to appear in my credit card statement after they cancelled a leg of my trip. I called them to cancel the entire ticket 2 weeks ago and they gave me a refund. I called today to check the refund status and they told me that they left is as an "open credit" which was not what I had agreed to. Anyway, they told me I had to submit the ticket for a refund on their website, which I did, and now it is offering me a voucher credit of 20% over what I paid for! As much as I want the credit, it is only good for one year and I already have a Delta credit to deal with, so sadly I am declining this good offer because I just don't know what to do with all these credits I'm collecting. Just wanted to share this story in case you are also waiting for an American refund.


----------



## neurosx1983

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I spoke with Aeroplan yesterday (the CSR said business has been very slow and they are announcing major layoffs today). The leg from Toronto to Madrid was indeed cancelled. She kindly booked a flight from Munich to Cairo for us, leaving Munich at 5:30pm. I was offered a flight from Toronto to Lisbon and Lisbon to Madrid on October 16th, but it was on TAP Portugual; I declined for 2 reasons: i) I am not keen on connecting flights and ii) I have read some not-so-nice reviews of business class on TAP Portugual. We have never been to Munich, so while not our top choice of cities to visit, we will make the best of it. This is on the assumption that the ABD Egypt trip leaves in October and that if it does, we feel comfortable getting on a plane to take the trip.
> 
> If the ABD Egypt doesn't leave or we decide not to risk travel I will be looking at a 2021 Backstage Magic trip. It has been on my list for a very long time.



Totally agree about backstage magic. Even though we lived in SoCal for years and went to DL a lot, I think the stuff at Imagineering looks fascinating.

Also, re: EgyptAir, we had looked into one of the A&K trips to Egypt last year and I was speaking with their travel department. Apparently they don't sell or offer Egypt Air flights to their customers because of its reputation/quality. I've never flown them but I have colleagues that have taken the straight flight from JFK and they've told me its not that bad...


----------



## disneyholic family

neurosx1983 said:


> I wonder how many of us are going to focus on ABDs domestically for the next year or two? The Wyoming and Montana trips are looking more appealing now!  As is the SoCal one/Backstage magic.
> 
> Truthfully though, most other countries are much safer right now than where we live in thy NYC metro area. I've been working at the hospitals and things are truly horrific, and this is not even as bad as it is in NYC proper. Hopefully we're hitting the peak this week and next week...



The problem is not wanting to be stuck in a hospital far from home. 
It's nightmarish enough right now just to be in a hospital, not to have to add the stress of being in a foreign country.

I found this report by Nicholas Kristof on what's happening at 2 NY hospitals to be interesting and heartbreaking.





.


----------



## disneyholic family

neurosx1983 said:


> Totally agree about backstage magic. Even though we lived in SoCal for years and went to DL a lot, I think the stuff at Imagineering looks fascinating.
> 
> Also, re: EgyptAir, we had looked into one of the A&K trips to Egypt last year and I was speaking with their travel department. Apparently they don't sell or offer Egypt Air flights to their customers because of its reputation/quality. I've never flown them but I have colleagues that have taken the straight flight from JFK and they've told me its not that bad...



Backstage Magic is the one my husband and i have booked for October, but i'm definitely canceling when we get to PIF. 
For us, it's international travel, which i think is out of the question until 2021. 
In any case, I don't believe we'll even be able to get travel medical insurance for the US - currently the insurance companies here have discontinued medical coverage for trips to the USA. A rather major obstacle to travel, i would think.
.


----------



## pistonfan32

Delta just made more cancellation policy changes last night. Cancel flights through 9/30/2020 with e-credits to 9/30/2022.  We will be canceling our 7/31/20 Italy and Switzerland trip. It was never an option that we were going to go and we fully expected Delta to do the great things that they have done. If ABD doesn’t do the same, then we will be our around $1,500. Not making the PIF. Oh well. We now have $9,000 of Delta ecredits. Hawaii anyone?


----------



## Candycane83

So Lufthansa just switched my flight from Madrid to Toronto direct flight to one with a layover in Munich this summer. Guess all direct flights must have been cancelled. Wonder if they will let me cancel without fees... they are offering credit to next April only. I expect we will not be flying to Europe then.... If they extend to December, I do have ABD Danube booked to then... although a refund at this point seems better.


----------



## OKW Lover

disneyholic family said:


> Backstage Magic is the one my husband and i have booked for October, but i'm definitely canceling when we get to PIF.


Sorry to hear that Beth.  Probably a good decision given the circumstances.  When you do re-book, be sure to pick one organized by the DIS (Kevin).  He does such a good job of customizing the trips for the Disney fan.


----------



## DCPhotoGal

Still hoping our Iceland trip in July goes.  I haven't gotten a cancellation from my airline (Icelandair) either.  (We already had our March Italy trip cancelled, so if something happens with Iceland it would be our second cancelled trip).


----------



## sayhello

Candycane83 said:


> So Lufthansa just switched my flight from Madrid to Toronto direct flight to one with a layover in Munich this summer. Guess all direct flights must have been cancelled. Wonder if they will let me cancel without fees... they are offering credit to next April only. I expect we will not be flying to Europe then.... If they extend to December, I do have ABD Danube booked to then... although a refund at this point seems better.


I don't know what the policy is for Canada, but for the United States, them re-routing you to Munich is enough to warrant a full refund.  For Delta it was on their contract of carriage.

Here's a link to Lufthansa's conditions of carriage (if you're really flying Lufthansa & not a codeshare):

https://www.lufthansa.com/rs/en/business-terms-and-conditions-1

I think this is the relevant passage in *bold*:

_Involuntary Refunds
10.2.
10.2.1. We will give you a refund as set out below if we cancel a flight, *fail to operate a flight according to the timetable*, fail to stop at your destination or stopping places, or cause you to miss a connecting flight for which you hold a reservation:

10.2.1.1. If you have not used any portion of the ticket, an amount equal to the airfare paid,

10.2.1.2. If you have already used a portion of the ticket, not less than the difference between the fare paid and the fare applicable to the segments you have already flown._

It can't hurt to call them and try.  Tell them you believe them changing your flight from a non-stop to a layover in Munich qualifies you for a full refund due to their "Conditions of Carriage".  Be firm but nice.  It worked for me with Delta.  Don't cancel until you get a refund or a credit that is good for a long enough period that you can live with.

Sayhello


----------



## Grotto

So today was our PIF day for our July 17th trip to Germany, 90 days out from the tour.  Had been holding out hoping AbD would cancel, though I knew that was unlikely.  Called today to discuss options.  As I expected, they were not willing to delay PIF any further and they were not willing to refund the deposit.  Those would have been my preferred options.

Initially, we transferred the deposit to holding status.  That gave me until 7/1/21 (I guess that was 2 years out from my initial reservation) to transfer my deposit to a new tour.  That would have given us the ability to book tours in the summer of 2021 or 2022.  With school schedules, we can only take bigger trips in the summer.  I figured I could live with that.  Unfortunately, we would not get the discount for booking immediately after our last AbD trip which was $500 per person.  We are DVC, so we always have access to day 1 pricing.  I did ask if they refund the deposit if they ultimately cancel the tour.  The answer was no - once in holding status, the deposit could not be refunded.  If I completed full payment and they cancelled, I would get everything back.   I just wasn't comfortable playing chicken with an extra $13000, even though I know this trip is going to be cancelled.

Interestingly, the guide I spoke with called me back about 5 minutes later and offered to switch our deposit to "Displacement status".  With this status, I am now required to book a tour by 12/31/20.  This essentially locks us in to a 2021 tour.  The difference is, they will give us credit for the early/post tour booking discount ($1500 for my family of 3).  I asked if this is a standard policy and she said it was on a case by case basis.  I guess between calls, she asked and got approval from a manager.  I was impressed she went the extra mile.  She was very pleasant and helpful.  I think in general I was nice to her on the phone, but I did let her know AbD is being destroyed on the message boards about their policies.  Not sure if any of that made a difference.  

So we did take the "Displacement Status".  Figured by the end of the year I'll know if I'm comfortable traveling overseas or if we will take a US tour.

I did ask how many people were still signed up for the tour.  She said 20 (I don't know if they all PIF'd or if more will cancel later today).  So I'm guessing about 1/2 full.

Afterwards, I called Delta and cancelled my flights.  No problem.  Took about 5 minutes after 2 whole minutes on hold.  Full refund.  One of the connecting flights had changed and I would miss my connection so qualified for a refund.  They have been so easy to work with.  I will be flying with Delta for all of my future trips.

Good luck to everyone else as your payments come due!


----------



## chuff88

Candycane83 said:


> So Lufthansa just switched my flight from Madrid to Toronto direct flight to one with a layover in Munich this summer. Guess all direct flights must have been cancelled. Wonder if they will let me cancel without fees... they are offering credit to next April only. I expect we will not be flying to Europe then.... If they extend to December, I do have ABD Danube booked to then... although a refund at this point seems better.


We have Lufthansa booked for our August Greece trip (for which we are almost definitely putting our deposit on hold for something in 2021 or 2022). We also want to cancel our flights but don’t want to be stuck with a credit that has to be used by April 2021. I am really hoping their policy changes but I’m worried about it. We are flying out of a small, regional airport and have two connections. I’m hoping one of our connections gets radically changed or cancelled so that we can just deal with it that way.


----------



## disneyholic family

OKW Lover said:


> Sorry to hear that Beth.  Probably a good decision given the circumstances.  When you do re-book, be sure to pick one organized by the DIS (Kevin).  He does such a good job of customizing the trips for the Disney fan.



this trip is organized by the DIS - it's the one that Pete, Kevin and John are going on.
That's why i'd signed up for it and was over the moon about.
Although, given my track record with podcast trips, this one falling through for me shouldn't come as a surprise.
That's why i was so happy to meet everyone in August, after so many years of false starts.
One of these days it will work out.  Truth be told, i'm waiting for PIF to cancel because i'm still hoping a miracle will occur between now and then. 

.


----------



## OKW Lover

disneyholic family said:


> Although, given my track record with podcast trips, this one falling through for me shouldn't come as a surprise.
> That's why i was so happy to meet everyone in August, after so many years of false starts.


Remind me not to book the same ABD as you.  

Oh, and it was nice to meet you and your daughter in August.


----------



## disneyholic family

OKW Lover said:


> Remind me not to book the same ABD as you.
> 
> Oh, and it was nice to meet you and your daughter in August.


well as i gushed at the time, i was thrilled to meet you and Val!! 
.


----------



## Candycane83

chuff88 said:


> We have Lufthansa booked for our August Greece trip (for which we are almost definitely putting our deposit on hold for something in 2021 or 2022). We also want to cancel our flights but don’t want to be stuck with a credit that has to be used by April 2021. I am really hoping their policy changes but I’m worried about it. We are flying out of a small, regional airport and have two connections. I’m hoping one of our connections gets radically changed or cancelled so that we can just deal with it that way.


I hope so too, seems like a very short time frame to use the credit. It improved a little from a few weeks ago. I saw it was only to the end of Dec 2020 then so maybe they will extend as needed...


----------



## DisneyWishes14

Grotto said:


> So today was our PIF day for our July 17th trip to Germany, 90 days out from the tour.  Had been holding out hoping AbD would cancel, though I knew that was unlikely.  Called today to discuss options.  As I expected, they were not willing to delay PIF any further and they were not willing to refund the deposit.  Those would have been my preferred options.
> 
> Initially, we transferred the deposit to holding status.  That gave me until 7/1/21 (I guess that was 2 years out from my initial reservation) to transfer my deposit to a new tour.  That would have given us the ability to book tours in the summer of 2021 or 2022.  With school schedules, we can only take bigger trips in the summer.  I figured I could live with that.  Unfortunately, we would not get the discount for booking immediately after our last AbD trip which was $500 per person.  We are DVC, so we always have access to day 1 pricing.  I did ask if they refund the deposit if they ultimately cancel the tour.  The answer was no - once in holding status, the deposit could not be refunded.  If I completed full payment and they cancelled, I would get everything back.   I just wasn't comfortable playing chicken with an extra $13000, even though I know this trip is going to be cancelled.
> 
> Interestingly, the guide I spoke with called me back about 5 minutes later and offered to switch our deposit to "Displacement status".  With this status, I am now required to book a tour by 12/31/20.  This essentially locks us in to a 2021 tour.  The difference is, they will give us credit for the early/post tour booking discount ($1500 for my family of 3).  I asked if this is a standard policy and she said it was on a case by case basis.  I guess between calls, she asked and got approval from a manager.  I was impressed she went the extra mile.  She was very pleasant and helpful.  I think in general I was nice to her on the phone, but I did let her know AbD is being destroyed on the message boards about their policies.  Not sure if any of that made a difference.
> 
> So we did take the "Displacement Status".  Figured by the end of the year I'll know if I'm comfortable traveling overseas or if we will take a US tour.
> 
> I did ask how many people were still signed up for the tour.  She said 20 (I don't know if they all PIF'd or if more will cancel later today).  So I'm guessing about 1/2 full.
> 
> Afterwards, I called Delta and cancelled my flights.  No problem.  Took about 5 minutes after 2 whole minutes on hold.  Full refund.  One of the connecting flights had changed and I would miss my connection so qualified for a refund.  They have been so easy to work with.  I will be flying with Delta for all of my future trips.
> 
> Good luck to everyone else as your payments come due!



Thanks so much for the update.  My PIF for SoCal/DL is on Monday and I have been waiting until the very last minute to call ABD and figure out what I'm going to do.  My first inclination was to PIF and call their bluff (I just don't think this trip is happening), but I'm starting to have images flash through my head of the trip going ahead, having to wear a mask the whole time and having a vastly changed itinerary.  This is a solo trip, so PIF certainly isn't as much as it would be if my family were going with me and I was planning on using my Disney Visa to put off paying the balance, but . . . I don't think I can handle the stress of watching every day to see if this trip is cancelled.  Ugh.  If they offer me the option of having two years to use my deposit, even if I have to forego any discounts, I may take it.  I have so many travel credits at this point that I wouldn't mind the extra time to figure this all out.  I feel like shortening the PIF from 120 days to 90 days was just smoke and mirrors.  IMHO, ABD is deliberately canceling these trips far after PIF is scheduled putting us all in a position to try to protect our deposits.  It's leaving a very bad taste in my mouth.  We also have an ABD Rhine cruise scheduled for August with PIF in mid-May.  I'm really hoping Ama pulls the plug on that prior to our PIF!


----------



## NitroStitch

DisneyWishes14 said:


> I feel like shortening the PIF from 120 days to 90 days was just smoke and mirrors.  IMHO, ABD is deliberately canceling these trips far after PIF is scheduled putting us all in a position to try to protect our deposits.  It's leaving a very bad taste in my mouth.  We also have an ABD Rhine cruise scheduled for August with PIF in mid-May.  I'm really hoping Ama pulls the plug on that prior to our PIF!



We are hoping the same for our Rhine ABD trip. It seems Ama canceling is our biggest hope at this point. It really leaves a terrible feeling towards ABD at the moment.


----------



## Grotto

Agree that the process is set up to guarantee that you take a future trip with AbD.  So we will take another trip with them next summer.   It’s just too much money to throw away.  After that, we will see.  I give do give them credit for calling back and finding a way to offer the early booking bonus.  But had they just allowed us to cancel, we very likely would have taken multiple future trips with them.  You do pay a premium to travel with AbD.  When paying a premium price, you expect premium service........


----------



## scottmel

pistonfan32 said:


> Delta just made more cancellation policy changes last night. Cancel flights through 9/30/2020 with e-credits to 9/30/2022.  We will be canceling our 7/31/20 Italy and Switzerland trip. It was never an option that we were going to go and we fully expected Delta to do the great things that they have done. If ABD doesn’t do the same, then we will be our around $1,500. Not making the PIF. Oh well. We now have $9,000 of Delta ecredits. Hawaii anyone?


flights anywhere or just international?


----------



## neurosx1983

Grotto said:


> Agree that the process is set up to guarantee that you take a future trip with AbD.  So we will take another trip with them next summer.   It’s just too much money to throw away.  After that, we will see.  I give do give them credit for calling back and finding a way to offer the early booking bonus.  But had they just allowed us to cancel, we very likely would have taken multiple future trips with them.  You do pay a premium to travel with AbD.  When paying a premium price, you expect premium service........



Everyone in the travel industry is freaking out so much right now that they are really trying to get all of us to keep credits instead of giving refunds. For example, we cancelled four seasons hualalai on the Big Island last month when all this was starting and their first impulse was to say that I could keep the credit on the deposit (which is equal to 2 nights stay...quite expensive) and use within a year. I had to call back a few times to get them to agree to give a refund. Same applies for ABD. The lesson is to be annoying and keep calling back and you'll eventually get what you want. Sad to say that, but its true.

That trick probably won't work with the airlines though unless they changed your itinerary...


----------



## pistonfan32

scottmel said:


> flights anywhere or just international?



anywhere


----------



## scottmel

_My paid in full with Boston is due in 10 days for August trip. For the first time I bought air thru ABD. Via Delta. Should I pay or walk away? Hate losing the air...._


----------



## scottmel

pistonfan32 said:


> anywhere


Thanks! booked air via ABD still possible to get for an August trip? The voucher for delta that is...


----------



## DisneyWishes14

neurosx1983 said:


> Everyone in the travel industry is freaking out so much right now that they are really trying to get all of us to keep credits instead of giving refunds. *For example, we cancelled four seasons hualalai on the Big Island last month when all this was starting and their first impulse was to say that I could keep the credit on the deposit (which is equal to 2 nights stay...quite expensive) and use within a year.* I had to call back a few times to get them to agree to give a refund. Same applies for ABD. The lesson is to be annoying and keep calling back and you'll eventually get what you want. Sad to say that, but its true.
> 
> That trick probably won't work with the airlines though unless they changed your itinerary...



We had the same experience with a resort in Riviera Maya, Mexico.  We canceled about a week and a half before the Mexico/US border closed and they would not issue a refund.  At the time, the reservationist at the resort couldn't understand why I was canceling . . .   I now have a credit of our two nights' deposit to be used by 12/19/20 and the resort is now closed.  My only recourse at this point would be if they stay closed through 12/19, I can file an insurance claim.  Or, I can call and attempt to get the refund.  I just think it will go nowhere with them. 

I think when all of this is over (if it's ever over), I will never plan a trip more than one month in advance.  In the past, that has left us slim pickings, but I don't know if I care about that anymore.  Between ABD, the airlines, Riviera Maya and a cruise line, I have about $15k floating out there which we may never see any value from.


----------



## Cousin Orville

Grotto said:


> Initially, we transferred the deposit to holding status.  That gave me until 7/1/21 (I guess that was 2 years out from my initial reservation) to transfer my deposit to a new tour.  That would have given us the ability to book tours in the summer of 2021 or 2022.  With school schedules, we can only take bigger trips in the summer.  I figured I could live with that.  Unfortunately, we would not get the discount for booking immediately after our last AbD trip which was $500 per person.  We are DVC, so we always have access to day 1 pricing.  I did ask if they refund the deposit if they ultimately cancel the tour.  The answer was no - once in holding status, the deposit could not be refunded.  If I completed full payment and they cancelled, I would get everything back.   I just wasn't comfortable playing chicken with an extra $13000, even though I know this trip is going to be cancelled.
> 
> Interestingly, the guide I spoke with called me back about 5 minutes later and offered to switch our deposit to "Displacement status".  With this status, I am now required to book a tour by 12/31/20.  This essentially locks us in to a 2021 tour.  The difference is, they will give us credit for the early/post tour booking discount ($1500 for my family of 3).  I asked if this is a standard policy and she said it was on a case by case basis.  I guess between calls, she asked and got approval from a manager.  I was impressed she went the extra mile.  She was very pleasant and helpful.  I think in general I was nice to her on the phone, but I did let her know AbD is being destroyed on the message boards about their policies.  Not sure if any of that made a difference.
> 
> So we did take the "Displacement Status".  Figured by the end of the year I'll know if I'm comfortable traveling overseas or if we will take a US tour.



So, either a credit without the early booking discount for a trip in 2021 or 2022 or a credit with the early booking discount for a trip in 2021.  That sounds pretty fair especially the credit through 2022.  Hope ABD makes this their official policy during the COVID crisis.  If so, that would in fact be more generous than Tauck's which only gives a credit through 2021.  I know in an ideal world deposits would be refunded for trips voluntarily cancelled, but I don't think that should be expected.  Our private trip to Peru/Bolivia wouldn't give me a refund on our deposit.  3 days after I cancelled our trip, Peru closed its borders. They're not even giving me a full credit.  They allowed me to rebook for next yr with a penalty.  Their explanation was they had nonrefundable costs on their end.  So, I'd be happy with a full ABD credit to be used through 2022.


----------



## sayhello

scottmel said:


> _My paid in full with Boston is due in 10 days for August trip. For the first time I bought air thru ABD. Via Delta. Should I pay or walk away? Hate losing the air...._


I'd find out what the options are.  That airfare is already purchased and paid for, the ticket is in your name.  I don't see why you cancelling the ABD would mean you lose the airfare.  They should be able to cancel the flight for you just like any Travel Agent, and get you a credit like everyone else is getting.  They aren't keeping the money if they cancel the flight.  The airlines already have the money.  And any credit would be in your name.

Sayhello


----------



## neurosx1983

DisneyWishes14 said:


> We had the same experience with a resort in Riviera Maya, Mexico.  We canceled about a week and a half before the Mexico/US border closed and they would not issue a refund.  At the time, the reservationist at the resort couldn't understand why I was canceling . . .   I now have a credit of our two nights' deposit to be used by 12/19/20 and the resort is now closed.  My only recourse at this point would be if they stay closed through 12/19, I can file an insurance claim.  Or, I can call and attempt to get the refund.  I just think it will go nowhere with them.
> 
> I think when all of this is over (if it's ever over), I will never plan a trip more than one month in advance.  In the past, that has left us slim pickings, but I don't know if I care about that anymore.  Between ABD, the airlines, Riviera Maya and a cruise line, I have about $15k floating out there which we may never see any value from.



I'm with you on waiting till at least a few months before booking, not a year - But again to echo something said several pages back on this thread, ABD and Disney in general understands their fan culture so much that they know if they announce something new it will be snatched up within a few days, which makes it hard to wait.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Grotto said:


> Agree that the process is set up to guarantee that you take a future trip with AbD.  So we will take another trip with them next summer.   It’s just too much money to throw away.  After that, we will see.  I give do give them credit for calling back and finding a way to offer the early booking bonus.  But had they just allowed us to cancel, we very likely would have taken multiple future trips with them.  You do pay a premium to travel with AbD.  When paying a premium price, you expect premium service........


This is exactly how I feel. When I sign up with ABD, I'm doing so because I expect a superior level of service. I do not expect to have to play chicken with them and wait until the last minute for a trip to be cancelled. IMO they are not acting like a luxury travel company with superior customer service, they are acting like United. 

I also agree that a return of a deposit for a voluntary cancellation is not necessarily something that should be expected, although it is being done by other companies (i.e. my college travel company has given me the option to cancel and refund my trip deposit for any trip before the end of the year). However, under the extraordinary circumstances of a worldwide pandemic, I would expect a company of ABD's caliber to (1) cancel trips well in advance when it is obvious they aren't going to go, which they have not done. I don't expect to have to play chicken with a company that has the resources of ABD and (2) at a minimum they should be pushing back PIF until they can guarantee a trip is going to be going.


----------



## disneyholic family

DisneyWishes14 said:


> I think when all of this is over (if it's ever over), I will never plan a trip more than one month in advance.  In the past, that has left us slim pickings, but I don't know if I care about that anymore.  Between ABD, the airlines, Riviera Maya and a cruise line, I have about $15k floating out there which we may never see any value from.



.
our international travel is mainly to one destination - WDW

And given that we're DVC, we have to book 11 months in advance, including air.
And given that our trips always include the whole gang (9 at last count), who all are tied to the school year, that means we can only travel in the summer. Even more reason that last minute just doesn't work for us.

Actually, 11 months isn't even that early.
Our trip last summer on the Disney Magic and to DLP was booked 18 months in advance.
And while DCL has a refundable deposit up to PIF, DLP has a large non-refundable deposit (or it did, perhaps disneyland paris will change the policy in light of current events).
Fortunately, that trip was last summer, when my biggest worry was making sure the toddlers got their second measles vaccine before heading to Europe.

In any case, last minute doesn't work for us.

i have a more optimistic view of the future then some.
I really do believe that once this is behind us, we'll revert to our old ways.
Perhaps some will be more fearful in their choices, but the human mind is  a wonderful thing.
We have the ability to forget adversity. If not, no woman would ever have a second child.
.


----------



## Cousin Orville

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> This is exactly how I feel. When I sign up with ABD, I'm doing so because I expect a superior level of service. I do not expect to have to play chicken with them and wait until the last minute for a trip to be cancelled. IMO they are not acting like a luxury travel company with superior customer service, they are acting like United.
> 
> I also agree that a return of a deposit for a voluntary cancellation is not necessarily something that should be expected, although it is being done by other companies (i.e. my college travel company has given me the option to cancel and refund my trip deposit for any trip before the end of the year). However, under the extraordinary circumstances of a worldwide pandemic, I would expect a company of ABD's caliber to (1) cancel trips well in advance when it is obvious they aren't going to go, which they have not done. I don't expect to have to play chicken with a company that has the resources of ABD and (2) at a minimum they should be pushing back PIF until they can guarantee a trip is going to be going.



I agree they should be cancelling trips when it’s obvious they aren’t going, but I think it’s debatable when that date is.  They’ve cancelled through May.  I think, like Tauck, they should cancel European trips through June.  No way are they traveling to Italy or Spain in June.  My guess is they are waiting for the countries to announce travel bans for June and most of the European bans to my knowledge are extended only to May right now.  But even in the highly unlikely event those bans were lifted, the optics wouldn’t look good to be touring in Europe in June.  I think beyond June is reasonable to wait to cancel trips.  I’d be the first to say July is very unlikely, but I think it’s understandable to wait another few wks to make that call officially.  Beyond July is anyone’s guess.  I have a non Disney (non European) trip in August.  I give it a 50/50 chance right now.

As far as PIF, they did push that to 30 days.  Same as Tauck, right?


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Cousin Orville said:


> I agree they should be cancelling trips when it’s obvious they aren’t going, but I think it’s debatable when that date is.  They’ve cancelled through May.  I think, like Tauck, they should cancel European trips through June.  No way are they traveling to Italy or Spain in June.  My guess is they are waiting for the countries to announce travel bans for June and most of the European bans to my knowledge are extended only to May right now.  But even in the highly unlikely event those bans were lifted, the optics wouldn’t look good to be touring in Europe in June.  I think beyond June is reasonable to wait to cancel trips.  I’d be the first to say July is very unlikely, but I think it’s understandable to wait another few wks to make that call officially.  Beyond July is anyone’s guess.  I have a non Disney (non European) trip in August.  I give it a 50/50 chance right now.
> 
> As far as PIF, they did push that to 30 days.  Same as Tauck, right?


Not sure about Tauck, maybe someone who has a trip with them can chime in? I know Thompson refunded has refunded for Japan in July. 

I think if ABD can't guarantee that a trip is going to go in a month they shouldn't be asking for PIF. IOW they should bear the uncertainty of closed borders not their customers. At a minimum they should be giving travelers a month lead time, and I think it's on them--not their customers--if they can't do that. The fact that they haven't cancelled trips in Europe in June is pretty ridiculous. It's not just international border closings at issue. NY is on lockdown until at least mid-May 15th. I can't believe ABD would think it would be appropriate to suggest International pleasure travel will resume shortly after the biggest city and fourth most populous state in the US may start easing SIP restrictions (and I can guarantee international plane travel won't be one of the first things eased!) In terms of worldwide shut downs most are open-ended: https://www.nytimes.com/article/coronavirus-travel-restrictions.html But I believe Macron was speculating recently that the Schengen area might be closed to foreign travel until September. Yikes! While I hope that is him just thinking out loud that does give some kind of idea on what European leaders are thinking regarding tourism. 

I agree that it may be precipitous to cancel some trips outright in July. DD and I have to get to the UK at the end of June/beginning of July to clear out her apartment before her lease expires. I think we can get there because UK hasn't closed it's borders, but that doesn't mean i'll be looking forward to it. I'm assuming we could travel as "necessary" even if the level 4 is still in place. I'm also assuming our flights won't be canceled and/or we can find another one if they are. I am not looking forward to it, and I'm already trying to figure out how we can do it the most safely with masks/gloves/social distancing, etc. and this is not a pleasure trip. 

Just thinking out loud here, but what I would do if I were ABD is this: I would announced that due to the worldwide pandemic and great uncertainty in tourism/travel in summer and fall, we are cancelling all domestic trips through May and all international through June. For trips beyond those time frames, we are pushing back all PIF until 30 days before a trip departure. If at that point border restrictions haven't been lifted, we will cancel and return all deposits. If it is determined trips can go on as planned as there are no travel restrictions, PIF will be due within 3 days. Something like that. It's not ideal, but it at least gives their customers a framework of what they can expect.


----------



## scottmel

Cousin Orville said:


> So, either a credit without the early booking discount for a trip in 2021 or 2022 or a credit with the early booking discount for a trip in 2021.  That sounds pretty fair especially the credit through 2022.  Hope ABD makes this their official policy during the COVID crisis.  If so, that would in fact be more generous than Tauck's which only gives a credit through 2021.  I know in an ideal world deposits would be refunded for trips voluntarily cancelled, but I don't think that should be expected.  Our private trip to Peru/Bolivia wouldn't give me a refund on our deposit.  3 days after I cancelled our trip, Peru closed its borders. They're not even giving me a full credit.  They allowed me to rebook for next yr with a penalty.  Their explanation was they had nonrefundable costs on their end.  So, I'd be happy with a full ABD credit to be used through 2022.



Thanks that makes sense. ABD hat told me months ago if the trip cancelled due to low numbers the airfare is forfeited. I would get a refund but could not keep it to travel on my own. No sense....


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> Not sure about Tauck, maybe someone who has a trip with them can chime in? I know Thompson refunded has refunded for Japan in July.
> 
> I think if ABD can't guarantee that a trip is going to go in a month they shouldn't be asking for PIF. IOW they should bear the uncertainty of closed borders not their customers. At a minimum they should be giving travelers a month lead time, and I think it's on them--not their customers--if they can't do that. The fact that they haven't cancelled trips in Europe in June is pretty ridiculous. It's not just international border closings at issue. NY is on lockdown until at least mid-May 15th. I can't believe ABD would think it would be appropriate to suggest International pleasure travel will resume shortly after the biggest city and fourth most populous state in the US may start easing SIP restrictions (and I can guarantee international plane travel won't be one of the first things eased!) In terms of worldwide shut downs most are open-ended: https://www.nytimes.com/article/coronavirus-travel-restrictions.html But I believe Macron was speculating recently that the Schengen area might be closed to foreign travel until September. Yikes! While I hope that is him just thinking out loud that does give some kind of idea on what European leaders are thinking regarding tourism.
> 
> I agree that it may be precipitous to cancel some trips outright in July. DD and I have to get to the UK at the end of June/beginning of July to clear out her apartment before her lease expires. I think we can get there because UK hasn't closed it's borders, but that doesn't mean i'll be looking forward to it. I'm assuming we could travel as "necessary" even if the level 4 is still in place. I'm also assuming our flights won't be canceled and/or we can find another one if they are. I am not looking forward to it, and I'm already trying to figure out how we can do it the most safely with masks/gloves/social distancing, etc. and this is not a pleasure trip.
> 
> Just thinking out loud here, but what I would do if I were ABD is this: I would announced that due to the worldwide pandemic and great uncertainty in tourism/travel in summer and fall, we are cancelling all domestic trips through May and all international through June. For trips beyond those time frames, we are pushing back all PIF until 30 days before a trip departure. If at that point border restrictions haven't been lifted, we will cancel and return all deposits. If it is determined trips can go on as planned as there are no travel restrictions, PIF will be due within 3 days. Something like that. It's not ideal, but it at least gives their customers a framework of what they can expect.



Oops ... should have added that if I were ABD, I would also make explicit that due to the unusual situation and uncertainty at this time, any deposits for trips through the end of the year (right now it's only for trips until June) that have not been cancelled yet by ABD can be exchanged for a voucher that must be used by x date (i.e voluntary cancellation situation like what other companies are doing). This may also give them a better idea of demand. 

I also just looked at the ABD PIF policy and they've simply moved the PIF forward by 30 days. It is still required 90 days out! Yikes, that is horrible: https://www.adventuresbydisney.com/travel-advisory/


----------



## DisneyWishes14

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> This is exactly how I feel. When I sign up with ABD, I'm doing so because I expect a superior level of service. I do not expect to have to play chicken with them and wait until the last minute for a trip to be cancelled. IMO they are not acting like a luxury travel company with superior customer service, they are acting like United.
> 
> I also agree that a return of a deposit for a voluntary cancellation is not necessarily something that should be expected, although it is being done by other companies (i.e. my college travel company has given me the option to cancel and refund my trip deposit for any trip before the end of the year). However, under the extraordinary circumstances of a worldwide pandemic, I would expect a company of ABD's caliber to (1) cancel trips well in advance when it is obvious they aren't going to go, which they have not done. I don't expect to have to play chicken with a company that has the resources of ABD and* (2) at a minimum they should be pushing back PIF until they can guarantee a trip is going to be going.*



This is how I feel.  I'm a little miffed that I'm expected to PIF for SoCal/DL for mid-July when they cannot guarantee any component of that trip will actually happen - DL isn't open until further notice and, even if it does open, will there be nighttime shows?  Do they really want us traipsing through The Walt Disney Studios and Archives and Imagineering right now?   Oh well.  I'll probably just park the deposit and hope a future SoCal/DL date will work.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

DisneyWishes14 said:


> This is how I feel.  I'm a little miffed that I'm expected to PIF for SoCal/DL for mid-July when they cannot guarantee any component of that trip will actually happen - DL isn't open until further notice and, even if it does open, will there be nighttime shows?  Do they really want us traipsing through The Walt Disney Studios and Archives and Imagineering right now?   Oh well.  I'll probably just park the deposit and hope a future SoCal/DL date will work.


I have a trip to DL on July 21st right now so I feel your pain. I suspect the chances of DL being open at that point are remote at best. Gov Newsom is supposed to be providing an update on a POSSIBLE timeline for reopening next week if, and only if, the numbers of hospitalizations and ICU admissions go down. They went down nicely a few days ago and are level today so I'm hopeful and optimistic that we will have better guidance on when things will begin to let up a little next week. But my suspicions are that they will aim for a mid-May partial reopening and then go very very slowly. Schools he has already said are closed for the remainder of the year. He also said the prospects of mass gatherings was negligible until a vaccine or herd immunity. That is sobering if it includes Disneyland.

P.S. Should add that I thought it was funny that Iger is one of the members of the recovery task force: https://deadline.com/2020/04/gavin-...schwarzeneggerbob-iger-tom-steyer-1202911400/


----------



## carpenta

Tauck called us and asked if we wanted a full refund? Since we are traveling with Tauck in september we were offered to credit towards the next trip with a small "inconvenience " credit included. Easy peasy with Tauck now if the world and this stupid virus would start cooperating.....Can't say enough good things how Tauck handled everything for us.


----------



## Cousin Orville

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> Just thinking out loud here, but what I would do if I were ABD is this: I would announced that due to the worldwide pandemic and great uncertainty in tourism/travel in summer and fall, we are cancelling all domestic trips through May and all international through June. For trips beyond those time frames, we are pushing back all PIF until 30 days before a trip departure. If at that point border restrictions haven't been lifted, we will cancel and return all deposits. If it is determined trips can go on as planned as there are no travel restrictions, PIF will be due within 3 days. Something like that. It's not ideal, but it at least gives their customers a framework of what they can expect.



I agree.  This makes sense.  At this point all international trips through June should be cancelled.  It’s the responsible thing to do.  



CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> I also just looked at the ABD PIF policy and they've simply moved the PIF forward by 30 days. It is still required 90 days out! Yikes, that is horrible: https://www.adventuresbydisney.com/travel-advisory/



I misread their 30 day PIF policy.  Agreed, 90 days PIF (for a July trip) is too far in advance right now.  It seems like a long shot tourism is back to normal by July.

I saw Iger was on the recovery task force.  I think that’s a good thing.  I believe he’ll do what’s ethical and keep safety the top priority.  He’s made ethical calls before without regard to financial fallout.  That’s going to be a huge question of when Disneyland and WDW can reopen.  I know there’s been discussion of temp checks and virtual queues, but ultimately I’m sure they're just going to have to wait until the case numbers get to a low enough level.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Cousin Orville said:


> I agree.  This makes sense.  At this point all international trips through June should be cancelled.  It’s the responsible thing to do.
> 
> 
> 
> I misread their 30 day PIF policy.  Agreed, 90 days PIF (for a July trip) is too far in advance right now.  It seems like a long shot tourism is back to normal by July.
> 
> I saw Iger was on the recovery task force.  I think that’s a good thing.  I believe he’ll do what’s ethical and keep safety the top priority.  He’s made ethical calls before without regard to financial fallout.  That’s going to be a huge question of when Disneyland and WDW can reopen.  I know there’s been discussion of temp checks and virtual queues, but ultimately I’m sure they're just going to have to wait until the case numbers get to a low enough level.


Totally agree. I think they mentioned that Disney was one of the biggest employers in CA (might have been Southern CA), and I think he will do what is responsible. The brand is key here, and they have to protect it. The last thing they'd want is to open and then be linked to a big outbreak. It is going to be very interesting to see how this all plays out, but I hope they come up with some inventive ideas. Maybe they can get the imagineers on it  I want to go back to the parks! I'm also watching the vaccine/theraputic/plasma trials with eagerness. Oxford has one that they are working on and could be ready by fall--that's the earliest and most optimistic timeline for a vaccine that I've seen. Go Oxford!


----------



## laceltris3

carpenta said:


> Tauck called us and asked if we wanted a full refund? Since we are traveling with Tauck in september we were offered to credit towards the next trip with a small "inconvenience " credit included. Easy peasy with Tauck now if the world and this stupid virus would start cooperating.....Can't say enough good things how Tauck handled everything for us.



Hmmmm.  We still haven’t received a call about our June trip that was cancelled last week. And they said not to call them and that they would reach out to us.


----------



## Cousin Orville

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> Totally agree. I think they mentioned that Disney was one of the biggest employers in CA (might have been Southern CA), and I think he will do what is responsible. The brand is key here, and they have to protect it. The last thing they'd want is to open and then be linked to a big outbreak. It is going to be very interesting to see how this all plays out, but I hope they come up with some inventive ideas. Maybe they can get the imagineers on it  I want to go back to the parks! I'm also watching the vaccine/theraputic/plasma trials with eagerness. Oxford has one that they are working on and could be ready by fall--that's the earliest and most optimistic timeline for a vaccine that I've seen. Go Oxford!



Yeah I saw one group that was “80% confident” a vaccine would be ready by 6mo.     I think it was a group out of Oxford.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Cousin Orville said:


> Yeah I saw one group that was “80% confident” a vaccine would be ready by 6mo.     I think it was a group out of Oxford.


Yep that was the one. September was the optimistic date for front line workers with longer to roll out than regular folks, but at this point I'm ready for optimism!


----------



## TXTransplant

I think all the travel companies need to reevaluate their response given how long travel has been and is likely to continue to be impacted.

I went ahead and rebooked with Nat Geo before my June trip was cancelled because there was only one other trip that worked with our schedule and the website said there was still availability.  I was concerned that if I waited any longer to rebook, there would be no slots available on that trip.

I'm traveling with Nat Geo because I want to go on THIS specific itinerary.  I chose them over other companies like ABD and Tauck because I want to take THIS trip.  And I preferably want to take a trip THIS YEAR.  I can't think of any circumstance where I would pay for a trip in full over a year in advance.

Even though many of us are repeat ABD customers, I think it's a little obnoxious on their (or any company's) part to simply assume that we want to spend an average of $5000-$10,000 per person to travel just anywhere.  For example, if I had booked ABD's Japan itinerary (which I have my eye on for a trip in the next two years), it would not be acceptable to me to move that $20k (or whatever the Japan trip is going for these days) to a trip to Alaska or Wyoming.

And, you've got to figure that the trips that they will be able to offer for rebooking this year will be very limited.  They've already cancelled all April and May trips.  No one is likely to be going anywhere in June.  In July, I think it's reasonable to hope that some domestic trips may proceed (probably not the DL trip).  But, if you had a trip booked to Italy, you probably don't want to go to Arizona (at least I wouldn't).

The longer this drags out, the fewer options are going to be available for rebooking.  And the idea that customers view all of these trips as being simply interchangeable is a horrible misinterpretation of WHY people are willing to spend $$$$ on specific itineraries.

I think ABD and others are going to find themselves unable to accommodate all of the customers who need to rebook on a comparable trip in a reasonable period of time.  And, even though I know they will try, it just seems ridiculous to me to keep customers' money when you can't rebook them until next year...unless you offer some really generous perk as an incentive.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

TXTransplant said:


> I think all the travel companies need to reevaluate their response given how long travel has been and is likely to continue to be impacted.
> 
> I went ahead and rebooked with Nat Geo before my June trip was cancelled because there was only one other trip that worked with our schedule and the website said there was still availability.  I was concerned that if I waited any longer to rebook, there would be no slots available on that trip.
> 
> I'm traveling with Nat Geo because I want to go on THIS specific itinerary.  I chose them over other companies like ABD and Tauck because I want to take THIS trip.  And I preferably want to take a trip THIS YEAR.  I can't think of any circumstance where I would pay for a trip in full over a year in advance.
> 
> Even though many of us are repeat ABD customers, I think it's a little obnoxious on their (or any company's) part to simply assume that we want to spend an average of $5000-$10,000 per person to travel just anywhere.  For example, if I had booked ABD's Japan itinerary (which I have my eye on for a trip in the next two years), it would not be acceptable to me to move that $20k (or whatever the Japan trip is going for these days) to a trip to Alaska or Wyoming.
> 
> And, you've got to figure that the trips that they will be able to offer for rebooking this year will be very limited.  They've already cancelled all April and May trips.  No one is likely to be going anywhere in June.  In July, I think it's reasonable to hope that some domestic trips may proceed (probably not the DL trip).  But, if you had a trip booked to Italy, you probably don't want to go to Arizona (at least I wouldn't).
> 
> The longer this drags out, the fewer options are going to be available for rebooking.  And the idea that customers view all of these trips as being simply interchangeable is a horrible misinterpretation of WHY people are willing to spend $$$$ on specific itineraries.
> 
> I think ABD and others are going to find themselves unable to accommodate all of the customers who need to rebook on a comparable trip in a reasonable period of time.  And, even though I know they will try, it just seems ridiculous to me to keep customers' money when you can't rebook them until next year...unless you offer some really generous perk as an incentive.



I had this exact thought earlier today.  My SoCal/DL PIF is tomorrow, so I called ABD today just to get a handle on my options.  Option 1 is to PIF which I have decided I really can't do - this whole solo trip was contingent on my DS12 going to summer school in MA and we have no idea if that is happening at this point.  I really can't leave him alone with DH for a week just so I can go to DL!  Option 2 is to pick a new date now and take advantage of any discount that may be offered for the new date and trip I choose.  Option 3 is to "park" my deposit and use it by February 21, 2021 toward any trip currently advertised and with availability but with no discount (so, potentially putting it toward new trips that are released for 2022).

I went onto the website to look at my options and there just isn't a lot scheduled for 2021 at this point - at least nothing that interests me.  I do not feel comfortable booking anything for this summer nor do I feel comfortable booking any international travel within the next 12 months.  I feel like my only option at this point is to "park" the deposit, but, as you said, with everyone "parking" deposits there might be a mad dash to book trips once they release more for 2021 and 2022 and the ones that are available may not be of interest to us or the dates may not work.


----------



## Readytotravel

It is comforting to read that so many of you believe June international trips will be cancelled.  We paid in full early for our June trip to Germany (which I won’t do again!)  so I am going to try hold out and hope ABD cancels. I have learned so much reading everyone’s comments and experiences.  Thanks for sharing!

Although we have had four amazing ABD trips, I have started looking at Tauck based on the positive comments here and the poor communication everyone has received from ABD. Their destinations look amazing, but I did get a slight impression that they had some focus on finer dining/dressing up. Is this anyone’s experience?  My family likes the laid back ABD feel. Should we only look at the Tauck trips designated for “families?”


----------



## Grotto

Readytotravel said:


> It is comforting to read that so many of you believe June international trips will be cancelled.  We paid in full early for our June trip to Germany (which I won’t do again!)  so I am going to try hold out and hope ABD cancels. I have learned so much reading everyone’s comments and experiences.  Thanks for sharing!
> 
> Although we have had four amazing ABD trips, I have started looking at Tauck based on the positive comments here and the poor communication everyone has received from ABD. Their destinations look amazing, but I did get a slight impression that they had some focus on finer dining/dressing up. Is this anyone’s experience?  My family likes the laid back ABD feel. Should we only look at the Tauck trips designated for “families?”



If you are investigating Tauck for family trips, look specifically for their Tauck Bridges tours.  Those are the family friendly options.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

Readytotravel said:


> It is comforting to read that so many of you believe June international trips will be cancelled.  We paid in full early for our June trip to Germany (which I won’t do again!)  so I am going to try hold out and hope ABD cancels. I have learned so much reading everyone’s comments and experiences.  Thanks for sharing!
> 
> Although we have had four amazing ABD trips, I have started looking at Tauck based on the positive comments here and the poor communication everyone has received from ABD. Their destinations look amazing, but I did get a slight impression that they had some focus on finer dining/dressing up. Is this anyone’s experience?  My family likes the laid back ABD feel. Should we only look at the Tauck trips designated for “families?”



We have done one regular Tauck tour (Italy) and one "Bridges" tour (UK/France) and I never felt the need to get super dressed up.  Looking back, I feel like I packed the same type of outfits for the Tauck tours as I did for our Central Europe ABD.


----------



## neurosx1983

Readytotravel said:


> It is comforting to read that so many of you believe June international trips will be cancelled.  We paid in full early for our June trip to Germany (which I won’t do again!)  so I am going to try hold out and hope ABD cancels. I have learned so much reading everyone’s comments and experiences.  Thanks for sharing!
> 
> Although we have had four amazing ABD trips, I have started looking at Tauck based on the positive comments here and the poor communication everyone has received from ABD. Their destinations look amazing, but I did get a slight impression that they had some focus on finer dining/dressing up. Is this anyone’s experience?  My family likes the laid back ABD feel. Should we only look at the Tauck trips designated for “families?”



What happens if you pay ABD in full early and then cancel...will they refund you everything you paid except for the deposit? I would assume so


----------



## lovetotravel

neurosx1983 said:


> What happens if you pay ABD in full early and then cancel...will they refund you everything you paid except for the deposit? I would assume so


Yes I’ve done this (paid before PIF). But if you buy ABD insurance, you’re subject to those penalties. If you want to PIF and get your money back in full before the PIF date, don’t use ABD insurance. Best bet is to PIF at due date with our without ABD insurance.
Post COVID-19, I won’t ever PIF before the due date!


----------



## Readytotravel

lovetotravel said:


> Yes I’ve done this (paid before PIF). But if you buy ABD insurance, you’re subject to those penalties. If you want to PIF and get your money back in full before the PIF date, don’t use ABD insurance. Best bet is to PIF at due date with our without ABD insurance.
> Post COVID-19, I won’t ever PIF before the due date!


But if you PIF early with ABD travel insurance and they cancel, you get it all back right?


----------



## acndis

My TA just contacted ABD because we are booked on United for Egypt and started to worry about the 4/30 deadline to change a flight with no penalty.  This may be extended but United has been such a jerk (we dealt with them already for our cruise) that we worry that they will look for any way to punish us for having to change/cancel  Our adventure starts on 6/28.  ABD said they hope to decide about our trip in the coming weeks and likely before 4/30.  I thought this might be helpful for others who are waiting (even though it's not very specific!).


----------



## Readytotravel

acndis said:


> My TA just contacted ABD because we are booked on United for Egypt and started to worry about the 4/30 deadline to change a flight with no penalty.  This may be extended but United has been such a jerk (we dealt with them already for our cruise) that we worry that they will look for any way to punish us for having to change/cancel  Our adventure starts on 6/28.  ABD said they hope to decide about our trip in the coming weeks and likely before 4/30.  I thought this might be helpful for others who are waiting (even though it's not very specific!).


Thank you for letting us know. I would love to hear something by 4/30!


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## tinks_mom

Received an email from ABD that "_Adventures by Disney_ has made the decision to suspend most departures through June 30, 2020".  We had been scheduled on the June 5th Austria & Czech Republic adventure.  Options are a travel credit for any Adventure in 2020 or 2021, or a full refund.  If I take the credit and book by May 11th, there is some type of discount but I'd need to call for specifics.


----------



## kaseyC

My TA let me know today that ABD has extended final payment by 30 days for all September ABDs.  They are also allowing me one more change if needed.  (I had already moved this deposit from Egypt to the Sept. Rhine cruise).  So I have some extra time to decide if I want to go ahead with the Sept. cruise or move my deposit to another adventure.


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## Magnum_PI

Huh.  Just noticed the trip we're booked on (Sept 15th Egypt) isn't on the dates list anymore... But trips before and after are?

https://www.adventuresbydisney.com/asia-africa-australia/egypt-vacations/rates-dates/


----------



## Smuggs

With the wellbeing of our Guests and team members as our top priority and in line with direction from health experts and government officials, _Adventures by Disney_ has made the decision to suspend most departures through June 30, 2020.


----------



## susans

It's probably sold out.  People like me who had trips to Egypt earlier were moved into the Sept 15th (and the next) Sept trip as an option after our trips were cancelled.


----------



## Magnum_PI

susans said:


> It's probably sold out.  People like me who had trips to Egypt earlier were moved into the Sept 15th (and the next) Sept trip as an option after our trips were cancelled.



Are you planning to go?  I'm hugely ambivalent about whether we still want to do it this year.


----------



## susans

Magnum_PI said:


> Are you planning to go?  I'm hugely ambivalent about whether we still want to do it this year.


I'm planning to go but I'm not sure that my husband will be going   He's teaching in the fall and spring semesters and didn't know this when we rebooked our May trip.


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## lovetotravel

JUNE IS CANCELLED:

April 20, 2020
*IMPORTANT INFORMATION*
_Adventures by Disney_ has been closely monitoring the latest information regarding Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) and is in constant contact with local, state, national and international health agencies for information and guidance.
With the well-being of our Guests and team members as our top priority, _Adventures by Disney_ has made the decision to suspend most departures through June 30, 2020. _Adventures by Disney_ will contact all impacted Guests or their Travel Agents with updated information and options.
_Adventures by Disney_ and AmaWaterways River Cruise Update
In our continuing effort to ensure the well-being of our Guests and team members, _Adventures by Disney_ along with AmaWaterways, our partner in river cruise sailings, have decided to suspend all river cruise sailings and their associated Escape trips through June 28, 2020.
The following _Adventures by Disney_ River Cruise sailings have been cancelled:
Rhine River Cruise

June 14, 2020
June 28, 2020
Rhône River Cruise

June 11, 2020
Seine River Cruise

June 11, 2020
Danube River Cruise

June 20, 2020
June 27, 2020
Additionally, the following _Adventures by Disney_ Escapes have been cancelled:

Amsterdam Escape: June 21; July 5, 2020
Budapest Escape: June 25, 2020
Paris Escape: June 9 & 18, 2020


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## DCPhotoGal

tinks_mom said:


> Received an email from ABD that "_Adventures by Disney_ has made the decision to suspend most departures through June 30, 2020".  We had been scheduled on the June 5th Austria & Czech Republic adventure.  Options are a travel credit for any Adventure in 2020 or 2021, or a full refund.  If I take the credit and book by May 11th, there is some type of discount but I'd need to call for specifics.


They just opened up pre-booking for 2021 for those who had a trip cancelled.  My March Italy trip was one of the first cancelled.


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## CaliforniaGirl09

Good news and finally! It's like they were reading these boards


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## acndis

Yes!  I am feeling so relieved (then horrified as I have to now deal with United!).


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## DisneyWishes14

DCPhotoGal said:


> They just opened up pre-booking for 2021 for those who had a trip cancelled.  My March Italy trip was one of the first cancelled.



Have you spoken to ABD?  I saw the announcement that they were opening up new 2021 itineraries today, but don't see anything on the website.  Just curious how far into 2021 they listed trips?


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## sayhello

DisneyWishes14 said:


> Have you spoken to ABD?  I saw the announcement that they were opening up new 2021 itineraries today, but don't see anything on the website.  Just curious how far into 2021 they listed trips?


https://www.adventuresbydisney.com/europe/portugal-vacations-new/

https://www.adventuresbydisney.com/asia-africa-australia/new-zealand-vacations-new/

Sayhello


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## lovetotravel

sayhello said:


> https://www.adventuresbydisney.com/europe/portugal-vacations-new/
> 
> https://www.adventuresbydisney.com/asia-africa-australia/new-zealand-vacations-new/
> 
> Sayhello


https://www.adventuresbydisney.com/europe/england-france-italy-vacations-new/


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## sayhello

lovetotravel said:


> https://www.adventuresbydisney.com/europe/england-france-italy-vacations-new/


That looks like a fabulous itinerary.  "Unfortunately", I've already been to all those places with ABD except for Orvieto, so I'm unlikely to ever sign up for it.  But for folks looking for this type of itinerary (kind of like a cruise without the cruise ship) it looks great.  Of course, it does seem like a bit of an odd choice for ABD given all the travel-time complaints they apparently get from their customers.  Because this trip is guaranteed to have some serious travel time.

Sayhello


----------



## DisneyWishes14

sayhello said:


> https://www.adventuresbydisney.com/europe/portugal-vacations-new/
> 
> https://www.adventuresbydisney.com/asia-africa-australia/new-zealand-vacations-new/
> 
> Sayhello





lovetotravel said:


> https://www.adventuresbydisney.com/europe/england-france-italy-vacations-new/



Thanks so much!  The new itineraries look pretty neat!   Do you see anything on the site that lists 2021/2022 dates for existing trips or any of the US domestic trips?


----------



## elat27

I am getting beyond annoyed! Cancel the damn Italy June trips already!


----------



## Dis87ney

elat27 said:


> I am getting beyond annoyed! Cancel the damn Italy June trips already!


They did today  

*Cancelled Trips:*

Alaska: 6/8, 6/15, 6/18, 6/25, 6/29
Arizona & Utah: 6/1, 6/8, 6/15, 6/22
Australia: 6/14, 6/28
Austria & Czech Republic: 6/5, 6/16, 6/19, 6/26
Boston Escape: 6/11, 6/25
Canadian Rockies: 6/20, 6/27, 6/29
Costa Rica: 6/6, 6/13, 6/20, 6/27
Disneyland Resort & Southern California: 6/7,  6/14, 6/21, 6/28
Ecuador: Amazon & Galapagos Islands: 6/9
Egypt: 6/2, 6/9, 6/16, 6/23, 6/30
England & France:  6/1, 6/5, 6/8,  6/12, 6/15,  6/19, 6/22, 6/26, 6/29
Germany: 6/5, 6/16, 6/26
Greece: 6/5, 6/13, 6/19, 6/26
Iceland: 6/6, 6/17, 6/27
Ireland: 6/12, 6/26
*Italy: 6/2, 6/5, 6/9, 6/12, 6/16, 6/19, 6/23, 6/26, 6/30*
*Italy & Amalfi Coast: 6/9, 6/21*
*Italy & Switzerland: 6/8, 6/19, 6/26*
Japan: 6/7, 6/15, 6/21, 6/28
New York City Escape: 6/4, 6/18
Norway: 6/13, 6/23
Paris Escape:  6/30
Peru: 6/4, 6/14, 6/25
Rome Escape: 6/19, 6/28
Scotland: 6/4, 6/14, 6/25
South Africa: 6/6, 6/13, 6/20, 6/27
Spain: 6/6, 6/20, 6/27
Vietnam, Laos & Cambodia: 6/22
Washington, D.C. & Philadelphia: 6/14, 6/28
Wyoming: 6/14, 6/21, 6/24


----------



## Candycane83

elat27 said:


> I am getting beyond annoyed! Cancel the damn Italy June trips already!


I thought I saw an announcement this morning that all June trips have been cancelled....


----------



## OKW Lover

Loving the itinerary for the Grand European ABD.  Unfortunately, we've just done London/Paris in October 2019 and have been to Florence & Rome sometime in 2019 as well.


----------



## neurosx1983

Grand tour looks strange and random to me. I thought ABD was all about delving into one culture in a deep way...London/Paris at least are kind of close to each other geographically, but doing London/Paris and smashing it together with Viva Italia just seems like the typical European vacation of "lets go to 3 countries in a week and see as much as possible"

Maybe I'm in the minority...


----------



## sayhello

neurosx1983 said:


> Grand tour looks strange and random to me. I thought ABD was all about delving into one culture in a deep way...London/Paris at least are kind of close to each other geographically, but doing London/Paris and smashing it together with Viva Italia just seems like the typical European vacation of "lets go to 3 countries in a week and see as much as possible"
> 
> Maybe I'm in the minority...


No, you're not.  You just expressed what I was trying to say more succinctly than I did.   

Sayhello


----------



## kaseyC

neurosx1983 said:


> Grand tour looks strange and random to me. I thought ABD was all about delving into one culture in a deep way...London/Paris at least are kind of close to each other geographically, but doing London/Paris and smashing it together with Viva Italia just seems like the typical European vacation of "lets go to 3 countries in a week and see as much as possible"
> 
> Maybe I'm in the minority...



Exactly.  There is going to be a lot of time in transition.  Hopefully, it's by train or plane.  Because if it's by motor coach, that's going to suck.


----------



## neurosx1983

kaseyC said:


> Exactly.  There is going to be a lot of time in transition.  Hopefully, it's by train or plane.  Because if it's by motor coach, that's going to suck.



My guess would be Paris to Florence would be flight because train would be something like 8 hours


----------



## Eastridge

While it took longer than many of us would have liked, I do appreciate ABD finally doing the right thing and cancelling almost all the June trips, including my Japan trip.


----------



## kaseyC

neurosx1983 said:


> My guess would be Paris to Florence would be flight because train would be something like 8 hours



Figured that.  Tauck Bridges has been a similar itinerary for years and they have always flown from Paris to Rome. Their itinerary is 12 days.  It will be interesting to see ABDs price point is similar to Tauck Bridges.


----------



## chuff88

Knowing that they've cancelled all of June now gives me a small glimmer of hope that they might cancel all of August before our PIF at the end of May.


----------



## Eastridge

neurosx1983 said:


> Grand tour looks strange and random to me. I thought ABD was all about delving into one culture in a deep way...London/Paris at least are kind of close to each other geographically, but doing London/Paris and smashing it together with Viva Italia just seems like the typical European vacation of "lets go to 3 countries in a week and see as much as possible"



The ABD land tours typically have one guide from the country you are visiting, which helps us learn about that country more deeply.  The new Grand Tour obviously can't provide that for the UK and France and Italy simultaneously.  It might be a challenge to get a guide fluent in French and Italian and English.


----------



## TXTransplant

If anyone is looking for alternatives to travel later in the year - we did Havasu Falls with Wildland Trekking, and it was AMAZING.  They have a lot of other trip options, and I am seriously thinking about booking a trip to Zion and Bryce with them for after Christmas.  Below is an email I just got from them...they have some great incentives for booking!

*Today through April 30* you can take advantage of these exceptional, low risk booking terms and savings:

*$100 deposits*. For all multi-day trips starting August 1 and later the deposit is $100 per person (normally $500).
*30-day final payment*. Your final balance won't be due until 30 days prior to departure (trips outside the USA still due at 60 days).
*Risk free cancellation*. You can reschedule your trip before the final payment is due with no penalty.
*20% discount*. On top of all of that we're offering you a 20% discount off the total cost of the trip!
*Book with Adventure Consultants*. Please call or email us to make your reservation under these terms.


----------



## laceltris3

I called Tauck today. 

Unfortunately the weeks that I need for our Siene river cruise next year are sold out in the category we need  (family of 5 requires that we have the suite, the only category that sleeps more than 2). Because of work, I can travel in June, but not July really. Also, while everything related to the land trips is transferable, river cruise deposits are not. Right now we are waitlisted for the preferred weeks, but I think we are going to go ahead and book the Alpine Adventure instead. It seems I will have a substantial credit with Air France, but I assume I should be able to get Houston/Zurich/Munich on there, KLM or Delta.

We had paid in full early for 3 of the 5. I could have received a full refund for everything I paid in, but if I left the money with Tauck, we received a $500 credit for each person paid in full and $250 for the ones not paid in full. At any time, I can change my mind and get the refund in the future.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

On hold with ABD for almost an hour now.  Figures my PIF date and the announcement of June cancellations/new itineraries/booking offers would be on the same day!  I don't usually wait until day-of to PIF, but I put this off as long as I could to see if any other options were on the table.  I'm going to ask if I take the credit and my trip is eventually cancelled if I would be eligible for the "displaced traveler" option - I have a feeling the answer is no, but it's worth asking I suppose . . .


----------



## MiddKid

Now that all the June folks have closure, time for us July people (July 4, Norway) to get anxious!  Thankfully I've already cancelled virtually all other aspects of the trip (airfare, pre/post travels, etc), now I just need the ABD payment back.  With 5 in our family, 3 kids in elementary/middle/high school (one in each) and a wife that's a teacher we don't have much timing flexibility.  I just need our refund and we can re-asses...


----------



## sayhello

laceltris3 said:


> I think this is highly preferable to the position that even if they cancel the trip the deposit is non-refundable thing ABD has leaned into. The carrot, rather than the stick, makes me much more satisfied with this outcome.


I'm not sure if I'm understanding what you wrote here or not, but if ABD cancels your trip, the deposit (or whatever you have paid at that point) is fully refundable.  It's only not refundable if *you* cancel.

Sayhello


----------



## Cousin Orville

OKW Lover said:


> Loving the itinerary for the Grand European ABD.  Unfortunately, we've just done London/Paris in October 2019 and have been to Florence & Rome sometime in 2019 as well.



The Grand Tour wouldn't be my first choice as it repeats a lot of places I've been, but I'm sure it appeals to someone going for their once in a lifetime European trip.  NZ would be cool.  I'm not sure the dates work out, but I'm interested.


----------



## elat27

Dis87ney said:


> They did today
> 
> *Cancelled Trips:*
> 
> Alaska: 6/8, 6/15, 6/18, 6/25, 6/29
> Arizona & Utah: 6/1, 6/8, 6/15, 6/22
> Australia: 6/14, 6/28
> Austria & Czech Republic: 6/5, 6/16, 6/19, 6/26
> Boston Escape: 6/11, 6/25
> Canadian Rockies: 6/20, 6/27, 6/29
> Costa Rica: 6/6, 6/13, 6/20, 6/27
> Disneyland Resort & Southern California: 6/7,  6/14, 6/21, 6/28
> Ecuador: Amazon & Galapagos Islands: 6/9
> Egypt: 6/2, 6/9, 6/16, 6/23, 6/30
> England & France:  6/1, 6/5, 6/8,  6/12, 6/15,  6/19, 6/22, 6/26, 6/29
> Germany: 6/5, 6/16, 6/26
> Greece: 6/5, 6/13, 6/19, 6/26
> Iceland: 6/6, 6/17, 6/27
> Ireland: 6/12, 6/26
> *Italy: 6/2, 6/5, 6/9, 6/12, 6/16, 6/19, 6/23, 6/26, 6/30*
> *Italy & Amalfi Coast: 6/9, 6/21*
> *Italy & Switzerland: 6/8, 6/19, 6/26*
> Japan: 6/7, 6/15, 6/21, 6/28
> New York City Escape: 6/4, 6/18
> Norway: 6/13, 6/23
> Paris Escape:  6/30
> Peru: 6/4, 6/14, 6/25
> Rome Escape: 6/19, 6/28
> Scotland: 6/4, 6/14, 6/25
> South Africa: 6/6, 6/13, 6/20, 6/27
> Spain: 6/6, 6/20, 6/27
> Vietnam, Laos & Cambodia: 6/22
> Washington, D.C. & Philadelphia: 6/14, 6/28
> Wyoming: 6/14, 6/21, 6/24


THANK YOU!!! Phew!!!


----------



## laceltris3

sayhello said:


> I'm not sure if I'm understanding what you wrote here or not, but if ABD cancels your trip, the deposit (or whatever you have paid at that point) is fully refundable.  It's only not refundable if *you* cancel.
> 
> Sayhello



Sorry. I must have misread somewhere upthread. I'll edit and fix.


----------



## OKW Lover

Eastridge said:


> The ABD land tours typically have one guide from the country you are visiting, which helps us learn about that country more deeply.  The new Grand Tour obviously can't provide that for the UK and France and Italy simultaneously.  It might be a challenge to get a guide fluent in French and Italian and English.


The existing London/Paris ABD doesn't follow that pattern.


----------



## ImprovGal

neurosx1983 said:


> Grand tour looks strange and random to me. I thought ABD was all about delving into one culture in a deep way...London/Paris at least are kind of close to each other geographically, but doing London/Paris and smashing it together with Viva Italia just seems like the typical European vacation of "lets go to 3 countries in a week and see as much as possible"
> 
> Maybe I'm in the minority...



Grand Tour could also be appealing to a travel party that wants the "sampler" type of itinerary one would get on the DCL european sailings, but isn't yet comfortable with resuming cruise ship travel.

The NZ itinerary is very tempting for me because there's an adult exclusive departure scheduled on my milestone birthday.  My only NZ experience was a stopover for a couple of days en route to an ABD Australia birthday trip.  I think it's a sign.


----------



## neurosx1983

OKW Lover said:


> The existing London/Paris ABD doesn't follow that pattern.



Really? I would think the london/paris ABD's would always have an adventure guide that spoke French...


----------



## OKW Lover

neurosx1983 said:


> Really? I would think the london/paris ABD's would always have an adventure guide that spoke French...


You would think so.  And that was the case on my October LoPar trip.  But the other guide wasn't from the UK.


----------



## OKW Lover

OKW Lover said:


> You would think so.  And that was the case on my October LoPar trip.  But the other guide wasn't from the UK.


Similarly, on my Northern Italy/Switzerland ABD a couple of years ago, one guide was from Italy but the other was from the US


----------



## sayhello

neurosx1983 said:


> Really? I would think the london/paris ABD's would always have an adventure guide that spoke French...


When I did London/Paris, one of our Guides was British, the other was American.  I don't recall which one spoke French, if either.  The French local Guide took care of most of that.

Sayhello


----------



## disneyholic family

tinks_mom said:


> Received an email from ABD that "_Adventures by Disney_ has made the decision to suspend most departures through June 30, 2020".  We had been scheduled on the June 5th Austria & Czech Republic adventure.  Options are a travel credit for any Adventure in 2020 or 2021, or a full refund.  If I take the credit and book by May 11th, there is some type of discount but I'd need to call for specifics.



If they're willing to refund your deposit, i would take it.
Then when you're ready to book again, you can, without being forced into their time constraints.
After all, you never know what tomorrow will bring (this virus being proof of that).
.


----------



## Dis_Yoda

Readytotravel said:


> It is comforting to read that so many of you believe June international trips will be cancelled.  We paid in full early for our June trip to Germany (which I won’t do again!)  so I am going to try hold out and hope ABD cancels. I have learned so much reading everyone’s comments and experiences.  Thanks for sharing!
> 
> Although we have had four amazing ABD trips, I have started looking at Tauck based on the positive comments here and the poor communication everyone has received from ABD. Their destinations look amazing, but I did get a slight impression that they had some focus on finer dining/dressing up. Is this anyone’s experience?  My family likes the laid back ABD feel. Should we only look at the Tauck trips designated for “families?”



I’ve done two Tauck tours now.  While certain were dressed up, most people reused outfits throughout the trip when it came to the fancy wear.  It really only needed for 2 meals of each trip (a 13 night France one and a 7 night Italy  one).


----------



## DisneyWishes14

tinks_mom said:


> Received an email from ABD that "_Adventures by Disney_ has made the decision to suspend most departures through June 30, 2020".  We had been scheduled on the June 5th Austria & Czech Republic adventure.  Options are a travel credit for any Adventure in 2020 or 2021, or a full refund.  If I take the credit and book by May 11th, there is some type of discount but I'd need to call for specifics.



This is the information I received regarding the Early Booking offer.  It appears they are allowing "displaced" guests (those whose itineraries were cancelled by ABD) to book first (staring today), they are offering up to $750 per person discount and, if I'm reading it correctly, any new booking made through the end of June 2020 will have fully refundable deposits up until final payment date.

"Offer must be booked through August 31, 2020 for travel start dates between February 8, 2021 – March 30, 2022. Availability is limited.
*Advance booking dates:
April 20, 2020:* Guests whose departures were cancelled due to Covid-19
*May 12, 2020:* Adventure Insiders – previous _Adventures by Disney_ Guests
*May 19, 2020:* General booking
Save Up to $750 Per Person on Select Vacation Departures
Take advantage of this early booking offer and save up to $750 per person on select vacation departures.*
Travel must be booked from now through August 31, 2020 for travel February 8, 2021 to March 30, 2022.
Enjoy the following savings on these _Adventures by Disney_ vacations:
*Save $750 per person on these select departure start dates:*

February 8 – March 11, 2021
April 10 – May 29, 2021
August 30 – December 11, 2021
January 10 – March 9, 2022
*Save $500 per person on these select international departure start dates:*

March 12 – April 7, 2021
May 30 – August 29, 2021
December 12, 2021 – January 1, 2022
March 10 – March 30, 2022
*Save $400 per person on these select North America departure start dates:*

March 12 – April 7, 2021
May 30 – August 29, 2021
December 12, 2021 – January 1, 2022
March 10 – March 30, 2022
*Important Information*

Early Booking Rates and availability are limited
Special Offer excludes river cruise, Escape and Disney Cruise Line related packages
Offer must be booked through August 31, 2020
Offer is for departure start dates from February 8, 2021 through March 30, 2022
Not combinable with other offers or promotions
Book Early and Save!
Availability is limited for this 2021 special offer. Travel must be booked through August 31, 2020.
Temporary Travel Cancellation Policy
_Adventures by Disney_ is offering a temporary adjustment to our Adventure Vacation Date Change Policy to provide more flexibility for our Guests. Any new bookings made on future trips through the end of June 2020 will be subject to fully refundable deposits up until the final payment date."


----------



## lovetotravel

DisneyWishes14 said:


> This is the information I received regarding the Early Booking offer.  It appears they are allowing "displaced" guests (those whose itineraries were cancelled by ABD) to book first (staring today), they are offering up to $750 per person discount and, if I'm reading it correctly, any new booking made through the end of June 2020 will have fully refundable deposits up until final payment date.
> 
> "Offer must be booked through August 31, 2020 for travel start dates between February 8, 2021 – March 30, 2022. Availability is limited.
> *Advance booking dates:
> April 20, 2020:* Guests whose departures were cancelled due to Covid-19
> *May 12, 2020:* Adventure Insiders – previous _Adventures by Disney_ Guests
> *May 19, 2020:* General booking
> Save Up to $750 Per Person on Select Vacation Departures
> Take advantage of this early booking offer and save up to $750 per person on select vacation departures.*
> Travel must be booked from now through August 31, 2020 for travel February 8, 2021 to March 30, 2022.
> Enjoy the following savings on these _Adventures by Disney_ vacations:
> *Save $750 per person on these select departure start dates:*
> 
> February 8 – March 11, 2021
> April 10 – May 29, 2021
> August 30 – December 11, 2021
> January 10 – March 9, 2022
> *Save $500 per person on these select international departure start dates:*
> 
> March 12 – April 7, 2021
> May 30 – August 29, 2021
> December 12, 2021 – January 1, 2022
> March 10 – March 30, 2022
> *Save $400 per person on these select North America departure start dates:*
> 
> March 12 – April 7, 2021
> May 30 – August 29, 2021
> December 12, 2021 – January 1, 2022
> March 10 – March 30, 2022
> *Important Information*
> 
> Early Booking Rates and availability are limited
> Special Offer excludes river cruise, Escape and Disney Cruise Line related packages
> Offer must be booked through August 31, 2020
> Offer is for departure start dates from February 8, 2021 through March 30, 2022
> Not combinable with other offers or promotions
> Book Early and Save!
> Availability is limited for this 2021 special offer. Travel must be booked through August 31, 2020.
> Temporary Travel Cancellation Policy
> _Adventures by Disney_ is offering a temporary adjustment to our Adventure Vacation Date Change Policy to provide more flexibility for our Guests. Any new bookings made on future trips through the end of June 2020 will be subject to fully refundable deposits up until the final payment date."


Thanks for sharing these details!


----------



## helenk

Waiting to see what happens to the July 5th Japan trip.  I guess ABD will wait until sometime next month to make the decision on trips that are scheduled for July


----------



## scottmel

Has anyone been in the situation where the trip that was cancelled they had used a CREDIT to book? So if this trip is cancelled, what happens to the initial deposit that was not refundable 2 years ago and was used to book a trip that was now cancelled? Do they receive another extension on this credit or cash back or?


----------



## TravelJunkieHubby

Our June trip to Japan is cancelled and we plan to opt for a refund.  Does anyone know if the trip insurance "cancel for any reason" also gets refunded?


----------



## lovetotravel

TravelJunkieHubby said:


> Our June trip to Japan is cancelled and we plan to opt for a refund.  Does anyone know if the trip insurance "cancel for any reason" also gets refunded?


I asked ABD and they said that if you have the ABD insurance, that premium gets refunded if they cancel your trip. Similarly you can transfer it if you rebook a trip. A reason that I would consider ABD insurance in the future is because of it's refundable option if ABD cancels the trip. I will be stuck with a credit if ABD cancels my trip, since I have OYO insurance.


----------



## lovetotravel

scottmel said:


> Has anyone been in the situation where the trip that was cancelled they had used a CREDIT to book? So if this trip is cancelled, what happens to the initial deposit that was not refundable 2 years ago and was used to book a trip that was now cancelled? Do they receive another extension on this credit or cash back or?


I will know this next month if ABD cancels my trip which was booked with a credit from a trip I canceled! I know I asked this question at the time that I rebooked a trip and I believe they said if they cancel my trip that I would get a refund.


----------



## TravelJunkieHubby

lovetotravel said:


> I asked ABD and they said that if you have the ABD insurance, that premium gets refunded if they cancel your trip. Similarly you can transfer it if you rebook a trip. A reason that I would consider ABD insurance in the future is because of it's refundable option if ABD cancels the trip. I will be stuck with a credit if ABD cancels my trip, since I have OYO insurance.


Thanks... I'm impressed that some seem ready to sign up with ABD again so quickly for 2021.  This maybe obvious to all, but I suspect ABD waited this long before cancelling June trips to have the new 2021 itineraries ready to go, thinking they could entice a few people to "stick around."

If there isn't a vaccine by the PIF dates next year but the number of COVID cases are down, are you comfortable traveling overseas?


----------



## lovetotravel

TravelJunkieHubby said:


> Thanks... I'm impressed that some seem ready to sign up with ABD again so quickly for 2021.  This maybe obvious to all, but I suspect ABD waited this long before cancelling June trips to have the new 2021 itineraries ready to go, thinking they could entice a few people to "stick around."
> 
> If there isn't a vaccine by the PIF dates next year but the number of COVID cases are down, are you comfortable traveling overseas?


If I ever rebook for next year with ABD or another vendor, it would be with a lot of caution and with only flexible refundable policies and reliable companies and most importantly to use up my credits before they expire. I can see myself booking another trip with the risk that I might have to cancel it so I would want to make sure that I booked only with companies that would give me that flexibility.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

I received notice that our West Jet flight from Fort Lauderdale to Toronto on May 21st was cancelled. The e-mail said they are only offering a travel voucher at this time. I am not sure if I will pursue a refund at this time as we need to get back to Toronto at some point this summer (likely the end of June or July).


----------



## Readytotravel

I got my cancellation email today for our June 26 trip to Germany. I called and was only on hold 30 minutes. The cancellation was quick with no major push to rebook.  This was the first time I had booked air with ABD. I am happy that now I do not need to deal with United myself. They did say the refund could take up to 30 days.


----------



## lovetotravel

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I received notice that our West Jet flight from Fort Lauderdale to Toronto on May 21st was cancelled. The e-mail said they are only offering a travel voucher at this time. I am not sure if I will pursue a refund at this time as we need to get back to Toronto at some point this summer (likely the end of June or July).


If the new fare is cheaper, I would definitely get a refund and rebook it. Plus you will have the flexible cancellation policies. Just quote the DOT to get your refund.


----------



## scottmel

lovetotravel said:


> I will know this next month if ABD cancels my trip which was booked with a credit from a trip I canceled! I know I asked this question at the time that I rebooked a trip and I believe they said if they cancel my trip that I would get a refund.


I am going to send you a PM. thanks!


----------



## scottmel

lovetotravel said:


> I will know this next month if ABD cancels my trip which was booked with a credit from a trip I canceled! I know I asked this question at the time that I rebooked a trip and I believe they said if they cancel my trip that I would get a refund.


I tried to PM you but couldn't figure out how! Can you please keep us in the loop on if they cancel your trip? Did you do a PIF? Where are you going? I am August Boston and ok to go but if they were cancelling I sure would like to know sooner than later. I almost feel as though they need PIF money from others to return deposits to others...


----------



## disneyland_is_magic

TXTransplant said:


> If anyone is looking for alternatives to travel later in the year - we did Havasu Falls with Wildland Trekking, and it was AMAZING.  They have a lot of other trip options, and I am seriously thinking about booking a trip to Zion and Bryce with them for after Christmas.  Below is an email I just got from them...they have some great incentives for booking!
> 
> *Today through April 30* you can take advantage of these exceptional, low risk booking terms and savings:
> 
> *$100 deposits*. For all multi-day trips starting August 1 and later the deposit is $100 per person (normally $500).
> *30-day final payment*. Your final balance won't be due until 30 days prior to departure (trips outside the USA still due at 60 days).
> *Risk free cancellation*. You can reschedule your trip before the final payment is due with no penalty.
> *20% discount*. On top of all of that we're offering you a 20% discount off the total cost of the trip!
> *Book with Adventure Consultants*. Please call or email us to make your reservation under these terms.


  I am going to hijack this thread for a second to thank you for posting this.  I went to their website and was really impressed.  I also checked out reviews and they are top notched.  It’s also a travel budget that feels more modest with so many unknowns.  

  Thank you very much.


----------



## TXTransplant

disneyland_is_magic said:


> I am going to hijack this thread for a second to thank you for posting this.  I went to their website and was really impressed.  I also checked out reviews and they are top notched.  It’s also a travel budget that feels more modest with so many unknowns.
> 
> Thank you very much.



You are very welcome!  The Havasu Falls trip we did was camping (because that’s really the only way you can see them), but they do have inn-to-inn based trips in the national parks. Camping isn’t my favorite activity, so when we book with them again, it will be one of those trips.

The guides we had were outstanding.  There were only eight of us on our Havasu Falls trip, and the other six were part of one big family that booked late. Our guides said that, if it had only been the two of us, the trip would have still proceeded, just with one guide.

IIRC, they also give a 15% discount to all returning customers.

I really can’t say enough good things about them!


----------



## Grotto

Has anybody rebooked a 2021 trip?  I was wondering if only the new itineraries were available for booking before May 12th or if all tours for summer 2021 are open to booking.  I don't see any summer 2021 dates on the website.


----------



## Theta

Grotto said:


> Has anybody rebooked a 2021 trip?  I was wondering if only the new itineraries were available for booking before May 12th or if all tours for summer 2021 are open to booking.  I don't see any summer 2021 dates on the website.



All tours are available. You have to call to get pricing and departure dates though.


----------



## disdel

Well, got this today re: Adults - only September 26  Oktoberfest Danube cruise ABD. They moved the PIF 30 days. I've highlighted where the deposit is STILL non-refundable.  By the way, OKTOBERFEST IS CANCELLED. The departure is still ooen for booking, and the description now says "Oktoberfest-themed" activities. Even if all countries and borders are opened, I would not spend the $$ of an ABD, with no opportunity to actually attend Oktoberfest. But it looks like they're continuing the game of chicken with guests. Well, I'm in. Will lose my deposit, but will wait until the bitter end. Pretty sure the trip will drop below the  critical mass, but not sure what hit ABD woukd take with AMAWaterways.



First and foremost, we hope that you are staying well during these challenging times. Our lives have changed in such extraordinary ways, yet it is heartening to see family, friends and colleagues caring for one another and doing their part to help prevent the spread of coronavirus.

With the wellbeing of our Guests and team members as our top priority and in line with direction from health experts and government officials, Adventures by Disney has made the decision to suspend most departures through June 30, 2020. We are currently evaluating various options for trips beyond June and have not made changes to any itineraries at this time. Once a decision is made, we will reach out to Guests booked on these trips.

To help relieve some uncertainty, we are automatically extending final payment for an additional 30 days for Guests currently booked on trips from July 15 through September 30. This means you have until 90 days prior to your Adventure start date to make final payment. *The deposit remains non-refundable.*

Your reservation is automatically being updated with the new final payment date with no action needed on your part.

Thank you for your patience and understanding. We will continue to provide you with updates as this situation continues to evolve and look forward to providing you with an enjoyable vacation experience.

Sincerely,

The Cast and Guides
_Adventures by Disney_




Adventures by Disney Travel Services
P.O. Box 10210
Lake Buena Vista, FL 32830-0238





p is still


----------



## lovetotravel

disdel said:


> Well, got this today re: Adults - only September 26  Oktoberfest Danube cruise ABD. They moved the PIF 30 days. I've highlighted where the deposit is STILL non-refundable.  By the way, OKTOBERFEST IS CANCELLED. The departure is still ooen for booking, and the description now says "Oktoberfest-themed" activities. Even if all countries and borders are opened, I would not spend the $$ of an ABD, with no opportunity to actually attend Oktoberfest. But it looks like they're continuing the game of chicken with guests. Well, I'm in. Will lose my deposit, but will wait until the bitter end. Pretty sure the trip will drop below the  critical mass, but not sure what hit ABD woukd take with AMAWaterways.


I wonder though if ABD feels like they can deliver the "Special Oktoberfest Highlights" that they are mentioning without the actual "Oktoberfest" holiday? I have not been on this cruise but I wonder if someone who has can comment on what you're missing out by Oktoberfest being cancelled? 
Either way, I do think it seems silly to have an "Oktoberfest" cruise, while the actual event is already canceled for the country.


----------



## TXTransplant

lovetotravel said:


> I wonder though if ABD feels like they can deliver the "Special Oktoberfest Highlights" that they are mentioning without the actual "Oktoberfest" holiday? I have not been on this cruise but I wonder if someone who has can comment on what you're missing out by Oktoberfest being cancelled?
> Either way, I do think it seems silly to have an "Oktoberfest" cruise, while the actual event is already canceled for the country.



While I can certainly understand the disappointment caused by booking a trip specifically to experience Oktoberfest only to have it cancelled, IIRC, there are all sorts of stipulations in our travel contract that say ABD (or Tauck, or Nat Geo) can make substitutions to the itinerary.

Oktoberfest being cancelled seems sort of analogous to going on a Disney Cruise and being unable to stop at Castaway Cay.  I would bet that most people book that cruise for that reason, but DCL doesn't typically cancel or give refunds for trips when the ships are unable to dock there.  That's just not financially prudent.  And, technically, there is MORE to a Disney Cruise than JUST Castaway Cay.

I will say, though, closures is why I opted to move our Nat Geo trip to July, even before it was cancelled.  When excursions and hotels started publicly saying they were going to be closed during the dates of our trip, I decided I did not want to travel if certain things were cut from the trip.  So, I rescheduled for dates when those things are open (so far).

Unfortunately, Oktoberfest is annual, so it's not that easy to just reschedule.  However, I don't think expecting ABD to cancel the trip is reasonable, either.  If the trip still proceeds, there will be PLENTY of other wonderful things to do besides Oktoberfest.  If that was REALLY an important part of the trip for a guest, though, I would ask about rebooking for next year or on an alternate trip, with the understanding that there may be financial "penalties" for doing so.  The other alternative would just be to cancel and forfeit the deposit, and I don't think this is a situation where ABD should be obligated to refund it (although, it would be a nice gesture of goodwill).

If cruises are allowed by September, I'm sure AMA and ABD will WANT to proceed with any and all trips/itineraries, even if Oktoberfest is cancelled.  They really can't afford any unnecessary cancellations.


----------



## helenk

I received an email from ADB, basically saying that there is a chance that the July trips to Japan will be canceled but they have not made a decision yet.  I can rebook the trip for later if I want, but since they are not officially canceling a refund is not one of my choices. I  guess it is best to wait until they cancel. I don't even see any Japan trips listed for 2021


----------



## DisneyWishes14

disdel said:


> Well, got this today re: Adults - only September 26  Oktoberfest Danube cruise ABD. They moved the PIF 30 days. I've highlighted where the deposit is STILL non-refundable.  By the way, OKTOBERFEST IS CANCELLED. The departure is still ooen for booking, and the description now says "Oktoberfest-themed" activities. Even if all countries and borders are opened, I would not spend the $$ of an ABD, with no opportunity to actually attend Oktoberfest. But it looks like they're continuing the game of chicken with guests. Well, I'm in. Will lose my deposit, but will wait until the bitter end. Pretty sure the trip will drop below the  critical mass, but not sure what hit ABD woukd take with AMAWaterways.
> 
> 
> ​
> First and foremost, we hope that you are staying well during these challenging times. Our lives have changed in such extraordinary ways, yet it is heartening to see family, friends and colleagues caring for one another and doing their part to help prevent the spread of coronavirus.
> 
> With the wellbeing of our Guests and team members as our top priority and in line with direction from health experts and government officials, Adventures by Disney has made the decision to suspend most departures through June 30, 2020. We are currently evaluating various options for trips beyond June and have not made changes to any itineraries at this time. Once a decision is made, we will reach out to Guests booked on these trips.
> 
> To help relieve some uncertainty, we are automatically extending final payment for an additional 30 days for Guests currently booked on trips from July 15 through September 30. This means you have until 90 days prior to your Adventure start date to make final payment. *The deposit remains non-refundable.*
> 
> Your reservation is automatically being updated with the new final payment date with no action needed on your part.
> 
> Thank you for your patience and understanding. We will continue to provide you with updates as this situation continues to evolve and look forward to providing you with an enjoyable vacation experience.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> The Cast and Guides
> _Adventures by Disney_​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Adventures by Disney Travel Services
> P.O. Box 10210
> Lake Buena Vista, FL 32830-0238
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> p is still



I totally understand your frustration.  This is one of the reasons I did not want to go through with the PIF on my July 19 SoCal/DL trip yesterday.  Even if they don't cancel it, I was afraid certain experiences may be taken off the itinerary - fireworks shows, perhaps some of the tours - and I really want to get the full experience this adventure has to offer.

If it's any cancellation, when I called yesterday (my PIF date), they immediately offered to put my trip date in "Displacement" status which means I have until December 31, 2020 to book a new trip and I can still take advantage of any discounts that might be available at that time.  So, in essence, I didn't lose my deposit and it gives me about 5 months to figure out what I want to do.  In your case, your PIF isn't until late June so they may have a better idea by then how they are going to proceed.  Amawaterways has also been far more proactive in canceling cruises than ABD (Ama cancelled through June 30 a while ago), which is forcing ABD's hand on the river cruises.  I would keep an eye on Ama's website for updates (that's what I'm doing because we have a Rhine Cruise scheduled for August).  But, just know, you won't lose your deposit - I know it says that in the ABD terms and conditions, but you will have a few options in terms of "parking" your deposit or changing your dates if you don't want to PIF when your balance due date arrives.


----------



## sayhello

helenk said:


> I received an email from ADB, basically saying that there is a chance that the July trips to Japan will be canceled but they have not made a decision yet.  I can rebook the trip for later if I want, but since they are not officially canceling a refund is not one of my choices. I  guess it is best to wait until they cancel. I don't even see any Japan trips listed for 2021


Most of the 2021 trip dates are not showing on the website yet.  They won't show until just before the trips go on sale to Adventure Insiders on May 12.  Right now, as the trips are only available to book for Displaced reservations, they don't show on the website, and are only available by you or your TA calling ABD.

Sayhello


----------



## disdel

We certainly understand the "fine print", and have no qualms about dealing with our choices. We have experienced our fair share of missed ports and altered itineraries, including several storms and an early 90's cruise where our ship crashed into the pier in St. John, CA, leaving us with a hole in the bow you could drive a truck into. It's what happens.

My only point was that I'm not using my $$ to *not* experience what we wanted. Will an ABD Danube river cruise still be awesome ? I have no doubt whatsoever. It's just not the experience we were spending on.

In the case of missing Castaway Cay, again, stuff happens, and, yes, there is more to  Disney cruise, and yes, DCL always goes above and beyond with more onboard activity. DL and WDW do the same (well, they used to). I don't think the analogy is quite right. This trip was not sold, priced, or booked as simply an ABD Danube River cruise. There are many other dates we could have done that.  And, as I said, I'm fully aware of the fine print, and of consequences of my own actions. However,  in line with many of the earlier posts in this thread, my feeling is that ABD is being short-sighted. I tried to move my trip to the equivalent, in 2021.  They'd still have my $$, and loyalty. I was only offered the opportunity to move it up until March 2021. Like I said,  I'll wait it out until PIF, and then make the choice. Hopefully, they'll reconsider the limits on any rebooking. That's all.

And thanks, DisneyWishes - yep, I have the "Displacement"info, which is right now our best option when we reach  PIF. Did they mention how far out the actual booking could be ? As I  said, when I  called,    I was told I had to travel by next March, so they advised to let the reservation stand for now until PIF.




TXTransplant said:


> While I can certainly understand the disappointment caused by booking a trip specifically to experience Oktoberfest only to have it cancelled, IIRC, there are all sorts of stipulations in our travel contract that say ABD (or Tauck, or Nat Geo) can make substitutions to the itinerary.
> 
> Oktoberfest being cancelled seems sort of analogous to going on a Disney Cruise and being unable to stop at Castaway Cay.  I would bet that most people book that cruise for that reason, but DCL doesn't typically cancel or give refunds for trips when the ships are unable to dock there.  That's just not financially prudent.  And, technically, there is MORE to a Disney Cruise than JUST Castaway Cay.
> 
> I will say, though, closures is why I opted to move our Nat Geo trip to July, even before it was cancelled.  When excursions and hotels started publicly saying they were going to be closed during the dates of our trip, I decided I did not want to travel if certain things were cut from the trip.  So, I rescheduled for dates when those things are open (so far).
> 
> Unfortunately, Oktoberfest is annual, so it's not that easy to just reschedule.  However, I don't think expecting ABD to cancel the trip is reasonable, either.  If the trip still proceeds, there will be PLENTY of other wonderful things to do besides Oktoberfest.  If that was REALLY an important part of the trip for a guest, though, I would ask about rebooking for next year or on an alternate trip, with the understanding that there may be financial "penalties" for doing so.  The other alternative would just be to cancel and forfeit the deposit, and I don't think this is a situation where ABD should be obligated to refund it (although, it would be a nice gesture of goodwill).
> 
> If cruises are allowed by September, I'm sure AMA and ABD will WANT to proceed with any and all trips/itineraries, even if Oktoberfest is cancelled.  They really can't afford any unnecessary cancellations.


----------



## TXTransplant

disdel said:


> We certainly understand the "fine print", and have no qualms about dealing with our choices. We have experienced our fair share of missed ports and altered itineraries, including several storms and an early 90's cruise where our ship crashed into the pier in St. John, CA, leaving us with a hole in the bow you could drive a truck into. It's what happens.
> 
> My only point was that I'm not using my $$ to *not* experience what we wanted. Will an ABD Danube river cruise still be awesome ? I have no doubt whatsoever. It's just not the experience we were spending on.
> 
> In the case of missing Castaway Cay, again, stuff happens, and, yes, there is more to  Disney cruise, and yes, DCL always goes above and beyond with more onboard activity. DL and WDW do the same (well, they used to). I don't think the analogy is quite right. This trip was not sold, priced, or booked as simply an ABD Danube River cruise. There are many other dates we could have done that.  And, as I said, I'm fully aware of the fine print, and of consequences of my own actions. However,  in line with many of the earlier posts in this thread, my feeling is that ABD is being short-sighted. I tried to move my trip to the equivalent, in 2021.  They'd still have my $$, and loyalty. I was only offered the opportunity to move it up until March 2021. Like I said,  I'll wait it out until PIF, and then make the choice. Hopefully, they'll reconsider the limits on any rebooking. That's all.



Allowing you to move your booking to an Oktoberfest cruise next year certainly seems like a very reasonable accommodation, and I don't understand the logic of not allowing you to do so.  I had posted previously that I would not expect someone who spent $$$ to book a specific trip should be expected to want to rebook on a completely different itinerary (I used the example that someone who was planning a trip to Italy probably doesn't want to rebook on a trip to Arizona).

But, I do think the idea that the cruise should be cancelled because Oktoberfest is cancelled is a bit of a stretch.  If the cruise is allowed to proceed, ABD and AMA are going to NEED it to go.  Considering the state of the industry right now, cancelling it for that reason would be a pretty bad financial decision on the part of those companies.


----------



## lovetotravel

_"With this in mind, we are offering a temporary adjustment to our Adventure Vacation Date Change Policy to provide more flexibility for our guests. Guests currently booked on Adventures through July 31, 2020, can change their reservation and receive a 100% credit to be used toward a future Adventure. Guests may select an alternate Adventure or place their booking on a future hold date by calling a Vacationista at 1-855-223-0025 or 407-566-8345. Guests will have until December 31, 2020 to select a new travel date. *This future travel credit is non-refundable and standard prevailing rates will apply.*"_

I'm confused about this in regards to the recently released new flexible policy to cancel for a full refund before or at the PIF for guests who book a new trip. This wording in the email sent to guests about rebooking a July 2020 trip seems contradictory to the new policy. It says the future travel credits is non-refundable. If this is the case, why would you do this because I would rather wait it out for it to be cancelled. Because then I would get a full refund and have the chance to use those funds to book a future trip with the new flexible policy. But maybe I might be misreading this?


----------



## Skylarr29

lovetotravel said:


> _"With this in mind, we are offering a temporary adjustment to our Adventure Vacation Date Change Policy to provide more flexibility for our guests. Guests currently booked on Adventures through July 31, 2020, can change their reservation and receive a 100% credit to be used toward a future Adventure. Guests may select an alternate Adventure or place their booking on a future hold date by calling a Vacationista at 1-855-223-0025 or 407-566-8345. Guests will have until December 31, 2020 to select a new travel date. *This future travel credit is non-refundable and standard prevailing rates will apply.*"_
> 
> I'm confused about this in regards to the recently released new flexible policy to cancel for a full refund before or at the PIF for guests who book a new trip. This wording in the email sent to guests about rebooking a July 2020 trip seems contradictory to the new policy. It says the future travel credits is non-refundable. If this is the case, why would you do this because I would rather wait it out for it to be cancelled. Because then I would get a full refund and have the chance to use those funds to book a future trip with the new flexible policy. But maybe I might be misreading this?


You’re not misreading. The refundable deposits apply to new reservations only.


----------



## carpenta

I guess Disney needs the money...Abigal Disney informs us of the 1.5 billion dollar bonuses were paid while 100,000 employees were laid off......Greed is one of the seven deadly sins and does not put the "Corporation" in a good light given the disastrous times we are living today.


----------



## DCPhotoGal

lovetotravel said:


> _"With this in mind, we are offering a temporary adjustment to our Adventure Vacation Date Change Policy to provide more flexibility for our guests. Guests currently booked on Adventures through July 31, 2020, can change their reservation and receive a 100% credit to be used toward a future Adventure. Guests may select an alternate Adventure or place their booking on a future hold date by calling a Vacationista at 1-855-223-0025 or 407-566-8345. Guests will have until December 31, 2020 to select a new travel date. *This future travel credit is non-refundable and standard prevailing rates will apply.*"_
> 
> I'm confused about this in regards to the recently released new flexible policy to cancel for a full refund before or at the PIF for guests who book a new trip. This wording in the email sent to guests about rebooking a July 2020 trip seems contradictory to the new policy. It says the future travel credits is non-refundable. If this is the case, why would you do this because I would rather wait it out for it to be cancelled. Because then I would get a full refund and have the chance to use those funds to book a future trip with the new flexible policy. But maybe I might be misreading this?


Yes, I'm in the same boat.  I will wait and see (I'm actually hoping my trip goes)  Also, I don't think they are promising to reimburse airfare is we opt to move our dates?


----------



## lovetotravel

DCPhotoGal said:


> Yes, I'm in the same boat.  I will wait and see (I'm actually hoping my trip goes)  Also, I don't think they are promising to reimburse airfare is we opt to move our dates?


Yes it doesn’t say about the airfare. Another reason for me to wait. With Airlines being so flexible about changes though, you’d only get a refund on the air if it was booked with ABD.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

disdel said:


> We certainly understand the "fine print", and have no qualms about dealing with our choices. We have experienced our fair share of missed ports and altered itineraries, including several storms and an early 90's cruise where our ship crashed into the pier in St. John, CA, leaving us with a hole in the bow you could drive a truck into. It's what happens.
> 
> My only point was that I'm not using my $$ to *not* experience what we wanted. Will an ABD Danube river cruise still be awesome ? I have no doubt whatsoever. It's just not the experience we were spending on.
> 
> In the case of missing Castaway Cay, again, stuff happens, and, yes, there is more to  Disney cruise, and yes, DCL always goes above and beyond with more onboard activity. DL and WDW do the same (well, they used to). I don't think the analogy is quite right. This trip was not sold, priced, or booked as simply an ABD Danube River cruise. There are many other dates we could have done that.  And, as I said, I'm fully aware of the fine print, and of consequences of my own actions. However,  in line with many of the earlier posts in this thread, my feeling is that ABD is being short-sighted. I tried to move my trip to the equivalent, in 2021.  They'd still have my $$, and loyalty. I was only offered the opportunity to move it up until March 2021. Like I said,  I'll wait it out until PIF, and then make the choice. Hopefully, they'll reconsider the limits on any rebooking. That's all.
> 
> And thanks, DisneyWishes - yep, I have the "Displacement"info, which is right now our best option when we reach  PIF. *Did they mention how far out the actual booking could be ? As I  said, when I  called,    I was told I had to travel by next March, so they advised to let the reservation stand for now until PIF.*



I was told yesterday that I had until December 31, 2020 to re-book with my "displaced status" deposit and that, at the time of booking, I could choose any trip that was currently being advertised by ABD (and could take advantage of any discounts).  So, I am under the impression that you would be able to book past March 2021 if you take the "displaced" status on your PIF date.  I would definitely wait it out!



lovetotravel said:


> _"With this in mind, we are offering a temporary adjustment to our Adventure Vacation Date Change Policy to provide more flexibility for our guests. Guests currently booked on Adventures through July 31, 2020, can change their reservation and receive a 100% credit to be used toward a future Adventure. Guests may select an alternate Adventure or place their booking on a future hold date by calling a Vacationista at 1-855-223-0025 or 407-566-8345. Guests will have until December 31, 2020 to select a new travel date. *This future travel credit is non-refundable and standard prevailing rates will apply.*"_
> 
> I'm confused about this in regards to the recently released new flexible policy to cancel for a full refund before or at the PIF for guests who book a new trip. This wording in the email sent to guests about rebooking a July 2020 trip seems contradictory to the new policy. It says the future travel credits is non-refundable. *If this is the case, why would you do this because I would rather wait it out for it to be cancelled. Because then I would get a full refund and have the chance to use those funds to book a future trip with the new flexible policy. But maybe I might be misreading this?*



I took the future travel credit for my July 19 SoCal/DL trip.  The PIF was yesterday and the trip hasn't been officially canceled yet.  My only alternative would have been to pay the balance on the trip and wait it out to see if it would be cancelled.  It probably will be canceled, but I didn't want to give ABD another $4K and then wait on pins and needles for the next 6 weeks to see if they would cancel or not.  For me, taking the credit was the best option.

On the other hand, we also have an August ABD Rhine Cruise booked and I check Ama's website daily to see if they are going to cancel past June 30.  If that trip is cancelled prior to PIF, I will gladly take a full refund on my deposit and then maybe take advantage of the new booking policy at that point!

So I think whether you take the credit or the refund is very much based on when your PIF is scheduled and when they actually cancel the trip (if they cancel).  I hope that makes sense.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

disdel said:


> I don't think the analogy is quite right. This trip was not sold, priced, or booked as simply an ABD Danube River cruise. There are many other dates we could have done that.  And, as I said, I'm fully aware of the fine print, and of consequences of my own actions. However,  in line with many of the earlier posts in this thread, my feeling is that ABD is being short-sighted. I tried to move my trip to the equivalent, in 2021.  They'd still have my $$, and loyalty. I was only offered the opportunity to move it up until March 2021. Like I said,  I'll wait it out until PIF, and then make the choice. Hopefully, they'll reconsider the limits on any rebooking. That's all.


I agree with you. The analogy wasn't quite right. It's more like changing a DVC cruise (with all the special attendees and experiences) to a regular cruise. Or maybe a Star Wars cruise to a regular cruise? 



TXTransplant said:


> But, I do think the idea that the cruise should be cancelled because Oktoberfest is cancelled is a bit of a stretch.  If the cruise is allowed to proceed, ABD and AMA are going to NEED it to go.  Considering the state of the industry right now, cancelling it for that reason would be a pretty bad financial decision on the part of those companies.


I agree that the cruise shouldn't be cancelled, but I do think that under the circumstances it would be appropriate to allow people to cancel and get their money back given the cancellation of the main event. I wonder what will happen with the Christmas Markets cruises? Presumably those could be in danger soon, especially if there is a resurgence in the fall as a lot of people are expecting.


----------



## sayhello

lovetotravel said:


> _"With this in mind, we are offering a temporary adjustment to our Adventure Vacation Date Change Policy to provide more flexibility for our guests. Guests currently booked on Adventures through July 31, 2020, can change their reservation and receive a 100% credit to be used toward a future Adventure. Guests may select an alternate Adventure or place their booking on a future hold date by calling a Vacationista at 1-855-223-0025 or 407-566-8345. Guests will have until December 31, 2020 to select a new travel date. *This future travel credit is non-refundable and standard prevailing rates will apply.*"_
> 
> I'm confused about this in regards to the recently released new flexible policy to cancel for a full refund before or at the PIF for guests who book a new trip. This wording in the email sent to guests about rebooking a July 2020 trip seems contradictory to the new policy. It says the future travel credits is non-refundable. If this is the case, why would you do this because I would rather wait it out for it to be cancelled. Because then I would get a full refund and have the chance to use those funds to book a future trip with the new flexible policy. But maybe I might be misreading this?


Because a) some people just don't want to wait.  If the trip is still a "go" this year, and they don't feel comfortable going, then they can get out of going, and instead book for 2021, when they are more likely to feel good about it.  Also b) if they haven't Paid in Full yet, but don't feel comfortable going, and don't want to Pay in Full and then play chicken on whether the trip gets canceled or not, they can get out of the trip, and rebook for 2021, when they are more likely to feel good about it.  

It's a less stressful way to get out of a trip that may or may not be cancelled.

Sayhello


----------



## TXTransplant

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> I agree with you. The analogy wasn't quite right. It's more like changing a DVC cruise (with all the special attendees and experiences) to a regular cruise. Or maybe a Star Wars cruise to a regular cruise?
> 
> 
> I agree that the cruise shouldn't be cancelled, but I do think that under the circumstances it would be appropriate to allow people to cancel and get their money back given the cancellation of the main event. I wonder what will happen with the Christmas Markets cruises? Presumably those could be in danger soon, especially if there is a resurgence in the fall as a lot of people are expecting.



I almost brought up the example of a Star Wars cruise vs. a regular cruise, but I didn't because I couldn't really think of a reason why Disney wouldn't be able to provide the Star Wars related activities (Maybe a norovirus outbreak?  Or just really, really bad weather?  We went on a Thanksgiving Cruise out of Galveston, and the weather to Key West was so bad that we couldn't go out on deck for a couple of days).  But, for the most part, they are able to control what happens ON the ship.  It's what happens off the ship where they lose control.

But, this discussion brings up a bigger point about the future of the cruise industry over the next year or two (at least until we have a vaccine).  When you book a cruise, for the most part what you're paying for is what the ship provides - lodging, food, and entertainment ON the ship (I realize river cruises do include some excursions).  But, for most of us (although, I realize there are exceptions, like transatlantic cruises), we don't cruise simply to stay on the ship the entire time.  We expect to be able to get off and enjoy the sights and sounds of whatever ports of call are on the itinerary.  

As far as cost goes, ABD charges more for the Oktoberfest and Christmas Market cruises, but looking at the itineraries, it doesn't LOOK like they are actually providing anything more than what they provide on a "regular" cruise (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).  You're paying more because these events are typically "high demand" times of travel.  Presumably there is higher demand during these events, but no more capacity, so the price goes up.

So, what happens if we end up in a situation where the cruises are allowed to proceed but you CAN'T get off the ship?  How many people want to take a river cruise but never disembark to explore the cities they are passing by?  I can't imagine paying $$$ for a trip and flying all the way to Europe only to confine myself to a boat that I can't get off of.  

From the perspective of the travel companies, of course these trips have to proceed.  At this point, they can't afford for them NOT to.

But, depending on how long this continues, how do you convince people to book a cruise where they can't get off the ship?  Well, for new trips, you offer deep discounts.  But, when people are booking a year or more in advance, that's not fair to the people with existing reservations.  

Do you allow people to cancel?  Well if companies make that too easy, they run the risk of having to cancel the entire trip.  Unfortunately, that's not how you get the travel industry "up and running" again.  

We sort of started this discussion a few pages back, and as things start to unfold, it really keeps opening up more and more cans of worms.

You could take it even beyond the cruises, too.  I know the Japan itinerary doesn't include Tokyo Disneyland and Sea, but if I travel to Japan (and we hopefully will in the next couple of years), I would be horribly disappointed if I could not add on a visit to those parks because they are closed.  Because, for me, going to Japan is probably going to be a once-in-a-lifetime trip.  I would definitely want to reschedule to a time when those parks are more likely to be open.  I'm certain Japan is a wonderful place to visit even if you don't visit those two parks, but I don't have an unlimited travel budget and want to get the most out of the time and expense it takes to get there.  

Companies like ABD are really caught between a rock and a hard place here.  The lesson I'm learning is that I am having to temper my expectations of travel, and might have to continue to do so for quite some time.  

And as unfortunate as it is, some companies may simply not exist as we know them once we get through all of this.  As much as we want to be loyal to those companies with "great" customer service and generous cancellation and refund policies, if they don't have enough money on hand to weather this storm, we won't be able to book with them in the future.  

If you follow Samantha Brown and have been watching her new show "Places to Love", you know it's not just about the destination - it's about the experiences you have and the people you meet while you're there.  Companies like ABD, Tauck, Wildland Trekking, Walks of Italy, Mauna Kea Summit Adventures, and...I could go on, but you get the point...are ALL excellent at providing exactly those types of "experiences".  But they do so at a cost (In my circles, I honestly know VERY few people who are willing to pay for guided travel; most people just book a plane ticket and hotel and go it on their own. And they look at me like I'm nuts when I say I'm going to Alaska with Nat Geo.), and it will be really interesting to see who and what is still standing in a year or so.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Another update on Quark. I was speaking with them yesterday. The CSR I spoke with was lovely. She told me they just cancelled their April 30th departure and at this point she doesn't expect any cruises to leave before July. However they have not cancelled anything beyond the aforementioned April cruise. She also told me that at least 2 of their Arctic cruises next summer are already sold out and some have very limited availability. She said most people booked this summer are re-booking next year. We will definitely not be re-booking for next year -- my plans for next summer involve a trip that can very easily be cancelled up until a few days before departure without any penalty (I would like to try for the Waldorf Astoria Maldives once again, maybe combined with a week in India).


----------



## lovetotravel

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> Another update on Quark. I was speaking with them yesterday. The CSR I spoke with was lovely. She told me they just cancelled their April 30th departure and at this point she doesn't expect any cruises to leave before July. However they have not cancelled anything beyond the aforementioned April cruise. She also told me that at least 2 of their Arctic cruises next summer are already sold out and some have very limited availability. She said most people booked this summer are re-booking next year. We will definitely not be re-booking for next year -- my plans for next summer involve a trip that can very easily be cancelled up until a few days before departure without any penalty (I would like to try for the Waldorf Astoria Maldives once again, maybe combined with a week in India).


Yes, I plan on booking flexible policy trips for next year in case we have a repeat of this year!

One of my claims on my 2 canceled trips with CFAR has finally been processed. It took 2 months, but I was able to get 75% of my non-refundable fees. I have 2 more trips that might get canceled this year and I was told I could move them to new trips if I don't incur penalties. I need to use those credits within 2 years of when I originally purchased the insurance.

If my ABD trip gets cancelled, I will have trip credits upon airline credits upon insurance credits, all expiring 2021-2022.


----------



## Angell

AbD canceled my Italy June 5 2020 earlier this week. I called today and was connected immediately with a vacationista (no wait!). She did try to get me to reschedule, which is expected. I said no thank you and that was that. It was painless. She did say that it could take up to 30 days for my refund to be credited back to my card. I am so relieved. Now, just waiting for DCL to cancel my Greek cruise that starts on June 13….


----------



## Eastridge

Angell said:


> She did say that it could take up to 30 days for my refund to be credited back to my card.



ABD told me that the refund for my cancelled June trip could take up to 90 days.  I hope the 30 day estimate is more accurate!


----------



## disneyholic family

TravelJunkieHubby said:


> If there isn't a vaccine by the PIF dates next year but the number of COVID cases are down, are you comfortable traveling overseas?


.
no.
However, I might possibly travel if i test positive on an antibodies test. 
At least to fly to the USA to get my mom who's been stuck in suburban detroit since all this started.
.


----------



## Dis87ney

Eastridge said:


> ABD told me that the refund for my cancelled June trip could take up to 90 days.  I hope the 30 day estimate is more accurate!


The part I paid by gift card took 7 days (got it today)...so hopefully the credit card part takes no longer than another week. They told me it usually takes 7 days, but considering COVID that it might take up to 30.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

I have been waiting for 10 days for a return call from a manager at Quark. Apparently their top priority is re-booking passengers for 2021. You'd think that since I have already paid in full that I would maybe get some priority, but nothing.

Yesterday I received an e-mail saying they have now cancelled all summer, 2020 Arctic cruises. However they are not offering any refunds. That is their official line. As of now I am not interested in re-booking and will be pressing for a refund. However I need to wait for a manager to contact me, which I am told will be "any day now". For such an expensive trip I expect better customer service.


----------



## lovetotravel

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I have been waiting for 10 days for a return call from a manager at Quark. Apparently their top priority is re-booking passengers for 2021. You'd think that since I have already paid in full that I would maybe get some priority, but nothing.
> 
> Yesterday I received an e-mail saying they have now cancelled all summer, 2021 Arctic cruises. However they are not offering any refunds. That is their official line. As of now I am not interested in re-booking and will be pressing for a refund. However I need to wait for a manager to contact me, which I am told will be "any day now". For such an expensive trip I expect better customer service.


So sorry you are experiencing this trouble. Keep us posted.


----------



## aggiedog

They canceled NEXT summer already?  Wow, why?


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

aggiedog said:


> They canceled NEXT summer already?  Wow, why?


Corrected to read 2020! Thank you


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

So sorry that you are having to deal with this. What a horrible saga. I'll never take a trip with them after reading about the run around you are getting!


----------



## Readytotravel

My trip was cancelled on April 21 and I received my full refund on May 1. Much faster than the 30 days that the Vacationista had told me to expect.


----------



## Spencer Wright

Readytotravel said:


> My trip was cancelled on April 21 and I received my full refund on May 1. Much faster than the 30 days that the Vacationista had told me to expect.



I had a similar experience.  I was told two to three business days and it took three.  I have found ABD great to work with thus far.


----------



## Rapunzellover

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I have been waiting for 10 days for a return call from a manager at Quark. Apparently their top priority is re-booking passengers for 2021. You'd think that since I have already paid in full that I would maybe get some priority, but nothing.
> 
> Yesterday I received an e-mail saying they have now cancelled all summer, 2020 Arctic cruises. However they are not offering any refunds. That is their official line. As of now I am not interested in re-booking and will be pressing for a refund. However I need to wait for a manager to contact me, which I am told will be "any day now". For such an expensive trip I expect better customer service.



Wow. This seems like such a change from the previous update you gave us on this.  I had thought you were resolving it.  It's like they're giving you whiplash with their back and forth run around.  Quark and Scott Dunn are definitely on my no list now.  

But seriously:  if they don't refund you, get your bank involved and on it.  They cannot charge you for something they did not provide, and while you may be contractually obligated to forfeit deposit,  they most likely cannot legally keep all your money while providing nothing. 

Travel contracts don't generally contain clauses saying you lose your money even if the company cancels, as that's ridiculously unfair.   However, this pandemic may, unfortunately,  change that.  

We should all watch the fine print more closely from now on.


----------



## sayhello

Rapunzellover said:


> Wow. This seems like such a change from the previous update you gave us on this.  I had thought you were resolving it.  It's like they're giving you whiplash with their back and forth run around.  Quark and Scott Dunn are definitely on my no list now.
> 
> But seriously:  if they don't refund you, get your bank involved and on it.  They cannot charge you for something they did not provide, and while you may be contractually obligated to forfeit deposit,  they most likely cannot legally keep all your money while providing nothing.
> 
> Travel contracts don't generally contain clauses saying you lose your money even if the company cancels, as that's ridiculously unfair.   However, this pandemic may, unfortunately,  change that.
> 
> We should all watch the fine print more closely from now on.


One of the tours I'd set up for my pre-days for my Rhone River cruise was listed as non-refundable.  They cancelled the tour, and sent me a link to a Google document and said to fill it out with my information, and they'd process a credit "after this crisis is over".  Because they'd had to let all of their support team go.  So a) when is "this crisis over"?  b) I really don't want a credit because c) it sounds possible this company may not be *around* after this crisis.  And d) *they* cancelled.  So I contacted my credit card company, and they agreed that I should be getting a refund since they cancelled, and "non-refundable" does not apply under these circumstances.  They have provisionally credited my account, and will let me know the final outcome after they (try to) contact the company.  We shall see what happens.  But contacting my credit card turned out to be the best way to handle this.

Sayhello


----------



## Cousin Orville

sayhello said:


> One of the tours I'd set up for my pre-days for my Rhone River cruise was listed as non-refundable.  They cancelled the tour, and sent me a link to a Google document and said to fill it out with my information, and they'd process a credit "after this crisis is over".  Because they'd had to let all of their support team go.  So a) when is "this crisis over"?  b) I really don't want a credit because c) it sounds possible this company may not be *around* after this crisis.  And d) *they* cancelled.  So I contacted my credit card company, and they agreed that I should be getting a refund since they cancelled, and "non-refundable" does not apply under these circumstances.  They have provisionally credited my account, and will let me know the final outcome after they (try to) contact the company.  We shall see what happens.  But contacting my credit card turned out to be the best way to handle this.
> 
> Sayhello



I’ve had these situations in the past and have called the CC company.  I had a tour through the Ritz Carlton Cairo and they had to cancel because the museum tour stopped taking private tours.  Even after 30 days as asked by the Ritz.  No refund.  I even called the main Ritz customer service line - no help.  Called my CC and they fixed it immediately.  No issues.  

I have an Alaskan tour that I’ve patiently waited 30 days and nothing.  I’m about to email the tour provider and if necessary call my CC for that.  It was refundable so not quite the same thing.

I had a non refundable deposit on a Romanian tour that I had to cancel after the travel ban.  I didn’t pursue that one since it was specifically non refundable.  I don’t know.  They were really nice and spent time designing a trip for us.  They gave us a credit to be used anytime.  I just left it at that.   Hopefully they make it and we can tour with them some day.

Personal call of course, but from my experience, you probably won’t get any pushback from your CC.


----------



## Rapunzellover

Cousin Orville said:


> I’ve had these situations in the past and have called the CC company.  I had a tour through the Ritz Carlton Cairo and they had to cancel because the museum tour stopped taking private tours.  Even after 30 days as asked by the Ritz.  No refund.  I even called the main Ritz customer service line - no help.  Called my CC and they fixed it immediately.  No issues.
> 
> I have an Alaskan tour that I’ve patiently waited 30 days and nothing.  I’m about to email the tour provider and if necessary call my CC for that.  It was refundable so not quite the same thing.
> 
> I had a non refundable deposit on a Romanian tour that I had to cancel after the travel ban.  I didn’t pursue that one since it was specifically non refundable.  I don’t know.  They were really nice and spent time designing a trip for us.  They gave us a credit to be used anytime.  I just left it at that.   Hopefully they make it and we can tour with them some day.
> 
> Personal call of course, but from my experience, you probably won’t get any pushback from your CC.



A CC calling up will get a company moving. Sometimes,  it's the only way to get their attention.

I'm not sure I'd push for refund if being offered a credit instead, in most cases, but the company being unwilling to even discuss refunding, when it's not your fault you aren't getting your trip you paid for, would make me never want to do business with said company again.  So, I'd push for a refund and be done with them.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

We got our ABD boxes, today, for our August 9 Rhine Cruise . . . PIF is in 9 days.  I was really hoping Ama would throw us a line and cancel the rest of the summer cruises by this point.  Does anyone think it's odd that we got our boxes for an August ABD but I never got anything for my July 19 SoCal/DL?  Or should I not read into anything?!


----------



## lovetotravel

DisneyWishes14 said:


> We got our ABD boxes, today, for our August 9 Rhine Cruise . . . PIF is in 9 days.  I was really hoping Ama would throw us a line and cancel the rest of the summer cruises by this point.  Does anyone think it's odd that we got our boxes for an August ABD but I never got anything for my July 19 SoCal/DL?  Or should I not read into anything?!


I'd like a box even if my trip was cancelled! I heard there are nice luggage straps. I could use several of those.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

lovetotravel said:


> I'd like a box even if my trip was cancelled! I heard there are nice luggage straps. I could use several of those.



LOL!  I was thinking the same thing!  I haven't opened it yet.  I think it's just going to make me sad knowing, even if that ship sails, we probably won't be on it.  I don't see ourselves going to Europe this summer unless something changes drastically.


----------



## lovetotravel

DisneyWishes14 said:


> LOL!  I was thinking the same thing!  I haven't opened it yet.  I think it's just going to make me sad knowing, even if that ship sails, we probably won't be on it.  I don't see ourselves going to Europe this summer unless something changes drastically.


I have the same dilemma! I am waiting out my July ABD. I haven't decided if I want a full refund or move it because I have a placeholder anyway I need to use up. I wouldn't mind a box while I'm waiting.


----------



## Networth

We received our box in the middle of March weeks before our May Greece trip was canceled. I wouldn’t look to much into receiving the box yet, based off what happened with us.


----------



## sayhello

Networth said:


> We received our box in the middle of March weeks before our May Greece trip was canceled. I wouldn’t look to much into receiving the box yet, based off what happened with us.


Same thing here.  I received my box at least 2 months ago for my May Rhone River cruise that was canceled.  I *am* glad I got a new luggage strap, but it makes me a bit sad...

Sayhello


----------



## TravelJunkieHubby

We were supposed to go to Japan in June and for Christmas I ordered the “Japan” ABD shirts with our names and “2020 Family Adventure” on the back  

This was the first time we bought the personalized shirts to “enhance our experience.”  Maybe we jinxed ourselves.


----------



## MiddKid

DisneyWishes14 said:


> We got our ABD boxes, today, for our August 9 Rhine Cruise . . . PIF is in 9 days.  I was really hoping Ama would throw us a line and cancel the rest of the summer cruises by this point.  Does anyone think it's odd that we got our boxes for an August ABD but I never got anything for my July 19 SoCal/DL?  Or should I not read into anything?!


July 4 to Norway. No boxes received. I’m thinking they purposely haven’t sent boxes for our trip knowing it will be cancelled.


----------



## Woodview

DisneyWishes14 said:


> We got our ABD boxes, today, for our August 9 Rhine Cruise . . . PIF is in 9 days.  I was really hoping Ama would throw us a line and cancel the rest of the
> 
> summer cruises by this point.  Does anyone think it's odd that we got our boxes for an August ABD but I never got anything for my July 19 SoCal/DL?  Or should I not read into anything?!



    PLEASE      DO NOT   PAY   your  Balance        YOU  will not be Allowed   INTO  EUROPE      FULL STOP.

    ALL BORDERS  Are   CLosed  from Country to Country      and  there   Could be a slight hint  of 

Travel     in June       BUT Travel from    Outside  Europe  is  Slim    till      late August      

          ALL   Hotels      Are    Closed    till further Notice


----------



## TarotFox

It's a tricky situation since they'll get the deposit back if ABD cancels.


----------



## NitroStitch

DisneyWishes14 said:


> We got our ABD boxes, today, for our August 9 Rhine Cruise . . . PIF is in 9 days.  I was really hoping Ama would throw us a line and cancel the rest of the summer cruises by this point.  Does anyone think it's odd that we got our boxes for an August ABD but I never got anything for my July 19 SoCal/DL?  Or should I not read into anything?!



Sounds like we were on the same trip. No box yet, and we are holding our breath about the PIF date.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

NitroStitch said:


> Sounds like we were on the same trip. No box yet, and we are holding our breath about the PIF date.



Did you get your PIF reminder e-mail today?!  I did - ugh


----------



## scottmel

Are you sick of me yet? I am sick of me! My PIF for Boston August is due this Friday. I keep thinking how is this going to happen social distance on Freedom trail? The awesome goodbye dinner they have on this trip etc. I am so torn b/c this was a placeholder trip. If I play chicken with them and they cancel, I am refunded in full. For the first time I bought airfare thru them and this has been a mistake because due to COVID my entire summer schedule has changed and I needed to shift the airfare by two days (arrive 2 days early instead of staying 2 days later). Nope they can't do that even though all airlines, including Delta whom I booked thru, always changes with no charges. No this is not in their contract with hDelta.

So my choices are

1. to walk away from 1100.00 and go somewhere on my own this summer that is my outdoorsy and not so tight quarters city. On our own, no tour - Arizona, etc.

2. Continue the game of chicken and hope this trip isn't altered in some way that it isn't as enjoyable. I am disappointed b/c we had plans on visiting Nantucket before etc. and this all depends on ABD for August.

I weirdly thought today would be the day that they cancelled July and allowed August people to move. I would prefer to move this to NEXT late May early June but placeholder and all.....
Thanks! Melissa


----------



## OKW Lover

scottmel said:


> My PIF for Boston August is due this Friday. I keep thinking how is this going to happen social distance on Freedom trail?


If you do go, I'll be interested to hear how you like it.  I'm originally from that area and worked in the city for several years.  Been in FL for 6+ years now and sometimes miss things up there.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

scottmel said:


> Are you sick of me yet? I am sick of me! My PIF for Boston August is due this Friday. I keep thinking how is this going to happen social distance on Freedom trail? The awesome goodbye dinner they have on this trip etc. I am so torn b/c this was a placeholder trip. If I play chicken with them and they cancel, I am refunded in full. For the first time I bought airfare thru them and this has been a mistake because due to COVID my entire summer schedule has changed and I needed to shift the airfare by two days (arrive 2 days early instead of staying 2 days later). Nope they can't do that even though all airlines, including Delta whom I booked thru, always changes with no charges. No this is not in their contract with hDelta.
> 
> So my choices are
> 
> 1. to walk away from 1100.00 and go somewhere on my own this summer that is my outdoorsy and not so tight quarters city. On our own, no tour - Arizona, etc.
> 
> 2. Continue the game of chicken and hope this trip isn't altered in some way that it isn't as enjoyable. I am disappointed b/c we had plans on visiting Nantucket before etc. and this all depends on ABD for August.
> 
> I weirdly thought today would be the day that they cancelled July and allowed August people to move. I would prefer to move this to NEXT late May early June but placeholder and all.....
> Thanks! Melissa



I'm not familiar with the placeholder rules - do you think ABD would let you move the date?  As time goes on, they seem to be getting more flexible with their terms and conditions.  I know with my July trip, they allowed me to put it into "displaced" status so I could still take advantage of discounts when I re-book.  I'm just wondering if it's worth asking if you could put the deposit back into placeholder status?  

I, too, wish there would be some news about summer.  Everything is so up in the air right now and government authorities are being so ambiguous with opening dates, restrictions, etc.  I've been watching MA closely because DS12 is supposed to go to summer school there this year.  His tuition is completely non-refundable at this point and they say they won't even know if they are opening until about two weeks before the opening date - ugh.  I believe MA just extended stay-at-home until May 18 and have given no indication as to how and when they are re-opening any part of the state.  It's really frustrating.  It seems we are heading into 2 months straight of completely ambiguity.  I mean, I get it, this is unprecedented and no one really knows the best way to handle it, but it is frustrating nonetheless.  I miss the days when we could make advance plans and have some certainty that we could actually keep them.


----------



## RSM

We live in the suburbs of Boston, about 26 miles Southwest of Boston (about where the marathon starts).  The stay at home advisory for Massachusetts is extended until May 18 and if you are in an area where social distancing is unlikely then facemasks are mandatory.  The Mayor of Boston has ordered facemasks to be worn in the city.  Unfortunately, I can't offer anything definitive, but everything we are hearing is that there will continue to be pretty significant restrictions in the city of Boston through the summer.   Things like mandatory facemasks, outdoor seating only in restaurants or restaurants at 25% capacity, groups no larger than 10 people, etc. The further you get away from Boston, into the suburbs and more rural areas of Western Massachusetts it may be a bit easier as population density decreases pretty dramatically.  We don't hear nearly as much about the restrictions in the other main cities in Massachusetts (Lowell, Fall River/New Bedford, Worcester, and Springfield).  Not sure if this helps with any of your decisions, but it does seem as though Boston proper will be under stricter guidelines than other parts of the state, and it sounds as though it will be through most of the summer.


----------



## scottmel

DisneyWishes14 said:


> I'm not familiar with the placeholder rules - do you think ABD would let you move the date?  As time goes on, they seem to be getting more flexible with their terms and conditions.  I know with my July trip, they allowed me to put it into "displaced" status so I could still take advantage of discounts when I re-book.  I'm just wondering if it's worth asking if you could put the deposit back into placeholder status?
> 
> I, too, wish there would be some news about summer.  Everything is so up in the air right now and government authorities are being so ambiguous with opening dates, restrictions, etc.  I've been watching MA closely because DS12 is supposed to go to summer school there this year.  His tuition is completely non-refundable at this point and they say they won't even know if they are opening until about two weeks before the opening date - ugh.  I believe MA just extended stay-at-home until May 18 and have given no indication as to how and when they are re-opening any part of the state.  It's really frustrating.  It seems we are heading into 2 months straight of completely ambiguity.  I mean, I get it, this is unprecedented and no one really knows the best way to handle it, but it is frustrating nonetheless.  I miss the days when we could make advance plans and have some certainty that we could actually keep them.


Thank you for the kind words and your empathy. It is just all so maddening. I talked to the Nantucket people I have reservations with for the ferry and he told me of the 5/18 extension but he THOUGHT August should be ok but said good thing you aren't coming in June for whatever that meant. I am sorry about your DS with summer school there. That is the pits! And non refundable? That is tough I sure hope it goes thru ok for him! I am going to hang in there until Thursday and call ABD AGAIN and see if any options really do remain... THank you!


----------



## scottmel

RSM said:


> We live in the suburbs of Boston, about 26 miles Southwest of Boston (about where the marathon starts).  The stay at home advisory for Massachusetts is extended until May 18 and if you are in an area where social distancing is unlikely then facemasks are mandatory.  The Mayor of Boston has ordered facemasks to be worn in the city.  Unfortunately, I can't offer anything definitive, but everything we are hearing is that there will continue to be pretty significant restrictions in the city of Boston through the summer.   Things like mandatory facemasks, outdoor seating only in restaurants or restaurants at 25% capacity, groups no larger than 10 people, etc. The further you get away from Boston, into the suburbs and more rural areas of Western Massachusetts it may be a bit easier as population density decreases pretty dramatically.  We don't hear nearly as much about the restrictions in the other main cities in Massachusetts (Lowell, Fall River/New Bedford, Worcester, and Springfield).  Not sure if this helps with any of your decisions, but it does seem as though Boston proper will be under stricter guidelines than other parts of the state, and it sounds as though it will be through most of the summer.



thank you! That almost makes me think to hang in there and let ABD pull the plug b/c again how can you solical distance on freedom trail or a museum etc.  How can you hear a guide thru a facemask social distanced from everyone? Thanks for the info I appreciate it!


----------



## DisneyWishes14

RSM said:


> We live in the suburbs of Boston, about 26 miles Southwest of Boston (about where the marathon starts).  The stay at home advisory for Massachusetts is extended until May 18 and if you are in an area where social distancing is unlikely then facemasks are mandatory.  The Mayor of Boston has ordered facemasks to be worn in the city.  Unfortunately, I can't offer anything definitive, but everything we are hearing is that there will continue to be pretty significant restrictions in the city of Boston through the summer.   Things like mandatory facemasks, outdoor seating only in restaurants or restaurants at 25% capacity, groups no larger than 10 people, etc. The further you get away from Boston, into the suburbs and more rural areas of Western Massachusetts it may be a bit easier as population density decreases pretty dramatically.  We don't hear nearly as much about the restrictions in the other main cities in Massachusetts (Lowell, Fall River/New Bedford, Worcester, and Springfield).  Not sure if this helps with any of your decisions, but it does seem as though Boston proper will be under stricter guidelines than other parts of the state, and it sounds as though it will be through most of the summer.



This is great info - thank you!  My DS12's summer school is in western MA and they keep the numbers quite low for the summer.  I'm sure they could figure out social distancing on campus, however, he would be living in a dorm, which concerns me.  This was supposed to be a "sampler-summer" to see if he might like boarding school.  I'm not really sure what kind of impression it will make on him if the whole summer is filled with social distancing and mask-wearing . . .  On the bright side, I have been following what this school has been doing during this academic year and I think they have handled the closure very well and will not put our children or their faculty in harms way.  They also offered families partial refunds for time lost on campus which I thought was very nice.  I think, at the end of the day, they will make a good decision based on the info in-hand in mid-June.  



scottmel said:


> Thank you for the kind words and your empathy. It is just all so maddening. I talked to the Nantucket people I have reservations with for the ferry and he told me of the 5/18 extension but he THOUGHT August should be ok but said good thing you aren't coming in June for whatever that meant. I am sorry about your DS with summer school there. That is the pits! And non refundable? That is tough I sure hope it goes thru ok for him! I am going to hang in there until Thursday and call ABD AGAIN and see if any options really do remain... THank you!



Thank you so much!  That is so very sweet of you.  

Let us know what ABD says!  I hope they have some options for you!


----------



## NitroStitch

DisneyWishes14 said:


> Did you get your PIF reminder e-mail today?!  I did - ugh


We got the PIF reminder email and the box.  Ugh.  Trying to decide whether to PIF and hope for a cancellation or to park the deposit and plan for something down the road.  It was THAT trip that was special, so it's tough to make the decision.


----------



## Jess_S

RSM said:


> We live in the suburbs of Boston, about 26 miles Southwest of Boston (about where the marathon starts).  The stay at home advisory for Massachusetts is extended until May 18 and if you are in an area where social distancing is unlikely then facemasks are mandatory.  The Mayor of Boston has ordered facemasks to be worn in the city.  Unfortunately, I can't offer anything definitive, but everything we are hearing is that there will continue to be pretty significant restrictions in the city of Boston through the summer.   Things like mandatory facemasks, outdoor seating only in restaurants or restaurants at 25% capacity, groups no larger than 10 people, etc. The further you get away from Boston, into the suburbs and more rural areas of Western Massachusetts it may be a bit easier as population density decreases pretty dramatically.  We don't hear nearly as much about the restrictions in the other main cities in Massachusetts (Lowell, Fall River/New Bedford, Worcester, and Springfield).  Not sure if this helps with any of your decisions, but it does seem as though Boston proper will be under stricter guidelines than other parts of the state, and it sounds as though it will be through most of the summer.



In case more rumors are helpful: I work for a branch of the state government in Boston. Our office just purchased laptops for everyone with the expectation that we would remain closed at least through June. (No formal announcement yet; it does seem that they are going down to the wire on making these sorts of decisions, which is understandable given the uncertainty). It's funny because when I interviewed for this job in February, I was told no one in our office had ever worked remotely and no one would be working remotely. Haven't been in to the office since that interview. 

Anyway, my sense is the same as others. I think they are anticipating that things will remain very restricted here at least through the early part of the summer.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

NitroStitch said:


> We got the PIF reminder email and the box.  Ugh.  Trying to decide whether to PIF and hope for a cancellation or to park the deposit and plan for something down the road.  It was THAT trip that was special, so it's tough to make the decision.



Yes, I agree!!  If they announced that trip for next year, I think I would just move the deposit!  Ugh, I'm waiting until the very last minute.  



Jess_S said:


> In case more rumors are helpful: I work for a branch of the state government in Boston. Our office just purchased laptops for everyone with the expectation that we would remain closed at least through June. (No formal announcement yet; it does seem that they are going down to the wire on making these sorts of decisions, which is understandable given the uncertainty). It's funny because when I interviewed for this job in February, I was told no one in our office had ever worked remotely and no one would be working remotely. Haven't been in to the office since that interview.
> 
> Anyway, my sense is the same as others. I think they are anticipating that things will remain very restricted here at least through the early part of the summer.



I LOVE rumors, thank you!  Wow, if you are closed through June, I guess I will speculate DS12 is not going to summer school (I actually don't really want him to go at this point and may call to see if they will defer his admission).  Love the story about not working remotely - that made me giggle, thank you!


----------



## RSM

The Governor of Massachusetts is supposed to lay out the proposal for beginning to re-open on May 18.  So, we should find out what the phased approach is going to look like.  Honestly, I can't imagine a summer school given where we are with the number of new cases each day.  My son goes to a prep school in the central part of the state.  He is a day student, but about 40% of the students live in the residence halls and are from all over the world.  His school "hopes" to be able to have the students back on campus in the fall, but they are also making contingent arrangements to continue distance learning.  In addition, many of the colleges are doing the same (planning and hoping to get back on campus in the fall, but making alternative arrangements as well).


----------



## DisneyWishes14

Amawaterways has now suspended their river cruises through July 31.  https://www.amawaterways.com/travel-updates

I would assume ABD will make an announcement soon regarding the July river cruises.  Ours is scheduled for August 9 . . . ugh.


----------



## NitroStitch

DisneyWishes14 said:


> Amawaterways has now suspended their river cruises through July 31.  https://www.amawaterways.com/travel-updates
> 
> I would assume ABD will make an announcement soon regarding the July river cruises.  Ours is scheduled for August 9 . . . ugh.


Wow.  So close and yet it may be another month before they deal with August cruises.


----------



## Rapunzellover

Tauck has apparently cancelled things till July 15th. 

Honestly, these lockdown protests have ruined any possibility of Summer travel.  There will be a spike, a severe one, in a few weeks because people don't understand that isolation is rule #1 for dealing with viruses. All this flocking to the beach, and these soft reopenings before it's medically sound are just gonna keep this virus alive, preventing travel.   When 3000+ people start dying a day, travel will just start becoming more and more unlikely until 2021, minimum.  

We are shooting ourselves in the foot. 

Not trying to be a downer, but realistically,  I see things getting a lot worse before they get better. And the worse they get, the longer it will take to get better.


----------



## lovetotravel

I have a July ABD and in a tough position. I'd like to rebook travel, but will incur airfare credits if I cancel before ABD cancels, when I'd rather have a full refund, so I am waiting it out. But by waiting, I risk loosing EBD and space on new itinerary by the time ABD cancels my trip (I have a placeholder I'd like to use with my ABD refund). Really wish they could make a decision on July trips prior to 2021 opening up for booking next week. Especially since now Tauck has cancelled portions of July as @Rapunzellover has mentioned.


----------



## scottmel

lovetotravel said:


> I have a July ABD and in a tough position. I'd like to rebook travel, but will incur airfare credits if I cancel before ABD cancels, when I'd rather have a full refund, so I am waiting it out. But by waiting, I risk loosing EBD and space on new itinerary by the time ABD cancels my trip (I have a placeholder I'd like to use with my ABD refund). Really wish they could make a decision on July trips prior to 2021 opening up for booking next week. Especially since now Tauck has cancelled portions of July as @Rapunzellover has mentioned.



I think we are in the same boat but from what everyone on here has said over and over to me, if they cancel on us - even as a placeholder, we are refunded in full. Because of this, I am holding out. I hope my August trip isn't cancelled but if it is, I am letting them do it. The LAST thing I want is to tie up more money in another ABD trip and be worrying and wondering. So if you sit back and do nothing and they cancel, you will get full refund. I hear you though on losing the the incentives on future trips though...


----------



## lovetotravel

scottmel said:


> I think we are in the same boat but from what everyone on here has said over and over to me, if they cancel on us - even as a placeholder, we are refunded in full. Because of this, I am holding out. I hope my August trip isn't cancelled but if it is, I am letting them do it. The LAST thing I want is to tie up more money in another ABD trip and be worrying and wondering. So if you sit back and do nothing and they cancel, you will get full refund. I hear you though on losing the the incentives on future trips though...


It's complicated  I have an additional placeholder I need to use from a trip I already canceled. And yes, my July trip was a placeholder also from a different trip I canceled.


----------



## lovetotravel

lovetotravel said:


> It's complicated  I have an additional placeholder I need to use from a trip I already canceled. And yes, my July trip was a placeholder also from a different trip I canceled.


Meanwhile, portions of my flights have already been cancelled by airlines. Perhaps I should call and get it refunded. I have made so many travel cancellations that I'm dreading more phone calls.


----------



## scottmel

lovetotravel said:


> It's complicated  I have an additional placeholder I need to use from a trip I already canceled. And yes, my July trip was a placeholder also from a different trip I canceled.


ouch that is complicated! I guess if parts of the lfight have been cancelled it stands to REASON ABD will fall suit. Fingers crossed. Please keep us posted. I am waiting for a phone call from 5 days ago when they were speaking to a supervisor regarding my options.....I fear I have none.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

Here is the official announcement from ABD regarding the cancellation of July river cruises plus associated ABD Escape trips:

*UPDATE –*_ May 6, 2020:  _With the wellbeing of our Guests and Guides as our top priority and in line with direction from health experts and government officials, *Adventures by Disney *along with AmaWaterways has decided to suspend July River Cruises and the associated Escape trips.

All impacted guests and travel agents will be contacted by *Adventures by Disney*.

Guests may transfer their costs toward the purchase of another Adventures by Disney experience or can receive a refund. In addition to the Adventures in 2020, 2021 Adventures are now available to Guests who have been displaced from their trips.

*Cancelled Trips:*


Rhine River Cruise
7/12/20
7/26/20

Rhone River Cruise
7/9/20

Seine River Cruise
7/2/20
7/16/20

Danube River Cruise
7/4/20
7/11/20

Amsterdam Escape
7/19/20

Paris Escape
7/7/20
7/9/20


----------



## Eastridge

Some good news: ABD originally told me my refund could take up to 90 days to arrive.  But when I checked my credit card recently, the refund was there.  So it actually took no more than 7 days.  Glad to see ABD processing refunds promptly.


----------



## Grifdog22

Rapunzellover said:


> Tauck has apparently cancelled things till July 15th.
> 
> Honestly, these lockdown protests have ruined any possibility of Summer travel.  There will be a spike, a severe one, in a few weeks because people don't understand that isolation is rule #1 for dealing with viruses. All this flocking to the beach, and these soft reopenings before it's medically sound are just gonna keep this virus alive, preventing travel.   When 3000+ people start dying a day, travel will just start becoming more and more unlikely until 2021, minimum.
> 
> We are shooting ourselves in the foot.
> 
> Not trying to be a downer, but realistically,  I see things getting a lot worse before they get better. And the worse they get, the longer it will take to get better.


The more I read on overseas news (like the Sydney Morning Herald in Australia) it becomes very clear that nations have become distrustful of the US and fear we may be carriers of the disease. 14 day Quarantine at the borders for US visitors has appeared as a topic. I agree these lockdown "protests" are doing us immense harm both here and abroad.


----------



## helenk

Grifgig22: My concern has been for awhile how that the countries that will lift their travel bans would either not let US citizens in or make us quarantine for 14 days once we get there. So you are validating those concerns. My daughter and I are scheduled on the Japan trip for July 5th and ABD has put a hold on that trip but has not officially canceled. I am sure it will be shortly.  Japan is still having issues and their President recently announced to extend their lockdown until the end of this month.


----------



## lovetotravel

Grifdog22 said:


> The more I read on overseas news (like the Sydney Morning Herald in Australia) it becomes very clear that nations have become distrustful of the US and fear we may be carriers of the disease. 14 day Quarantine at the borders for US visitors has appeared as a topic. I agree these lockdown "protests" are doing us immense harm both here and abroad.


Agree. Other countries are imposing 14 day quarantines including Vietnam, affecting ABD Asia trips. I know it's too early to speculate what might happen in July trips but this seems like something that other countries will do.

http://news.chinhphu.vn/Home/Govt-chief-allows-resumption-of-nonessential-services/20205/40021.vgpAs the COVID-19 pandemic still remains complicated across the world, Phuc tasked competent authorities to continue measures to prevent importation of new cases, including compulsory 14-day quarantine for incoming travellers.


----------



## Rapunzellover

Grifdog22 said:


> The more I read on overseas news (like the Sydney Morning Herald in Australia) it becomes very clear that nations have become distrustful of the US and fear we may be carriers of the disease. 14 day Quarantine at the borders for US visitors has appeared as a topic. I agree these lockdown "protests" are doing us immense harm both here and abroad.



So true.  Countries that don't get this taken care of will become pariahs.  People aren't thinking about the long term consequences.


----------



## Jess_S

Rapunzellover said:


> So true.  Countries that don't get this taken care of will become pariahs.  People aren't thinking about the long term consequences.


This whole situation has me feeling like I did in elementary school when recess was cancelled for the whole class because 1 or 2 kids couldn't behave. I totally understand why countries would not want to risk letting Americans in given what is going on -- but it stinks for the vast majority of us who are doing everything we can to be good neighbors and stop the spread of this disease.


----------



## Rapunzellover

Jess_S said:


> This whole situation has me feeling like I did in elementary school when recess was cancelled for the whole class because 1 or 2 kids couldn't behave. I totally understand why countries would not want to risk letting Americans in given what is going on -- but it stinks for the vast majority of us who are doing everything we can to be good neighbors and stop the spread of this disease.



Apt analogy.  The thing that bites most is if we just buckled down and strictly locked down without complaining,  we could be in a much better situation.  We're just keeping it alive, which... benefits nobody and will only extend the economic devastation, in the travel industry in particular.


----------



## Woodview

Grifdog22 said:


> The more I read on overseas news (like the Sydney Morning Herald in Australia) it becomes very clear that nations have become distrustful of the US and fear we may be carriers of the disease. 14 day Quarantine at the borders for US visitors has appeared as a topic. I agree these lockdown "protests" are doing us immense harm both here and abroad.



  DO you not get it   Yet     ?        Stay at home       .

   It is not just   USA people  who will have to  do  Quarantine      is   people  from   All over the world  who will have to do the  14 days 

   In Europe      you are not allowed to  Travel  into another country   & if you do and are caught    it
is  a very large  Fine   .  & 14 days


----------



## Woodview

In my area  in Ireland       the local   small  towns  are     " Spreading    Farm  Manure   "       on the  Beach front 

to  Deter     day trippers     ....... it works


----------



## Magnum_PI

Woodview said:


> DO you not get it Yet ? Stay at home .



Pretty sure Grifdog was saying that the people who are not staying home in the US are causing harm.  Nothing in their post suggests they think we should be traveling or gathering right now.


----------



## TarotFox

Do you think they will extend the final payment delay? Disneyland won't even be open by the time my final payment is due, but right now it only goes out for trips through September and mine is October.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

Does anyone know if there is a listing somewhere of the new 2021 rates and dates plus the extension of existing trips into 2021?  With booking opening to prior ABD guests tomorrow, I was hoping to comb through the info to try to come up with some alternatives to the July and August 2020 trips we now aren't taking this year.   I don't see any of this listed on the ABD website as of yet.  I'm considering so many different itineraries, I was hoping I wouldn't have to ask a vacationista to go through every possible trip with me.


----------



## lovetotravel

DisneyWishes14 said:


> Does anyone know if there is a listing somewhere of the new 2021 rates and dates plus the extension of existing trips into 2021?  With booking opening to prior ABD guests tomorrow, I was hoping to comb through the info to try to come up with some alternatives to the July and August 2020 trips we now aren't taking this year.   I don't see any of this listed on the ABD website as of yet.  I'm considering so many different itineraries, I was hoping I wouldn't have to ask a vacationista to go through every possible trip with me.


I was told most dates for 2021 are held at the same week as 2020.


----------



## CaliKris

If you go to the Dreams Unlimited Website and click on Adventures by Disney, Get a Quote, you can see the new dates and rates if you click on a specific location and trip.


----------



## scottmel

I PIF this past Friday for our August Boston trip. I had built an entire trip to Nantucket, Boston, etc. around the long weekend to be a full week plus in Boston. I spoke with a few people in Boston this weekend he said it has been declared that all museums, concerts, events, etc are cancelled thru August. I still see Comic Con selling August tickets in Boston though.

In speaking with ABD on Friday, I inquired about this (before speaking to the Boston people) and they said July and onward are considered on a destination basis - such as NYC and Boston being cities etc. So I guess instead of looking for an out right cancel on ALL months it may be destination specific. I know that the mayor in Boston is releasing the public to yellow phase on 5/18 but no major tourist things open.


----------



## lovetotravel

scottmel said:


> I PIF this past Friday for our August Boston trip. I had built an entire trip to Nantucket, Boston, etc. around the long weekend to be a full week plus in Boston. I spoke with a few people in Boston this weekend he said it has been declared that all museums, concerts, events, etc are cancelled thru August. I still see Comic Con selling August tickets in Boston though.
> 
> In speaking with ABD on Friday, I inquired about this (before speaking to the Boston people) and they said July and onward are considered on a destination basis - such as NYC and Boston being cities etc. So I guess instead of looking for an out right cancel on ALL months it may be destination specific. I know that the mayor in Boston is releasing the public to yellow phase on 5/18 but no major tourist things open.


I agree with this. I also called inquiring about my July trip and they mentioned case by case basis based on destination.


----------



## Grifdog22

CaliKris said:


> If you go to the Dreams Unlimited Website and click on Adventures by Disney, Get a Quote, you can see the new dates and rates if you click on a specific location and trip.


Prices seem MUCH higher!


----------



## helenk

I looked at the prices for Japan next July and the prices are the same as I paid this year


----------



## CaliKris

I think Egypt is the one that went up the most!  The rest stayed relatively flat as far as I can tell.


----------



## MiddKid

Well, the wait continues.  We're still booked on the 7/4 Norway trip.  Our family of 5 is fully paid up ($24K) and they still haven't cancelled our trip.  We've cancelled every other part of the trip.  So no matter what, we're not going.  I'm just waiting on ABD to cancel.

I called yesterday just to see if there was any special offer...of course not.  They offered to move us to the same trip next year and since it's the same price there would be no additional payment needed.  If ABD had offered something similar to DCL (125% credit) I would have jumped at it, but a straight transfer wasn't interesting to me given that they have all $24K for the next 14 months and I have no options to cancel.

We have 3 kids...one each in high school, middle school, and elementary school...scheduling is a bear.  While, in theory, taking the same trip next year wouldn't be a scheduling issue I feel much better knowing I have until next March for final payment rather than going all in right now.  As such, my plan is to get the refund in the next week or two and then re-book the same trip for 2021 only paying the deposit for right now.

In my mind, the biggest risk with this plan is potentially missing out on the early booking discount but that's a risk I'm willing to take in order to get for flexibility.  Plus, Norway is not one of the top demanded trips.

Hopefully the cancellation comes soon.


----------



## lovetotravel

@MiddKid, go ahead and book your new trip and put a new deposit down. It's fully refundable right? Then you get your discount and can cancel it if your trip goes, or get your refund?


----------



## MiddKid

lovetotravel said:


> @MiddKid, go ahead and book your new trip and put a new deposit down. It's fully refundable right? Then you get your discount and can cancel it if you trip goes, or get your refund?



It’s so funny...in all my analysis and over-analysis of the situation I never thought about putting down another deposit (I guess it’s just the avoidance of giving ABD MORE money).  But you’re right...no risk.  I may have to call today.

Thanks!


----------



## lovetotravel

MiddKid said:


> It’s so funny...in all my analysis and over-analysis of the situation I never thought about putting down another deposit (I guess it’s just the avoidance of giving ABD MORE money).  But you’re right...no risk.  I may have to call today.
> 
> Thanks!


Don't worry, if you only knew how long it took me to think of this strategy only to find out that when I finally decided to look at a date, it's all waitlisted already (NZ)! I wish I took my own advice earlier.


----------



## SteveW8002

MiddKid said:


> Well, the wait continues.  We're still booked on the 7/4 Norway trip.  Our family of 5 is fully paid up ($24K) and they still haven't cancelled our trip.  We've cancelled every other part of the trip.  So no matter what, we're not going.  I'm just waiting on ABD to cancel.
> 
> I called yesterday just to see if there was any special offer...of course not.  They offered to move us to the same trip next year and since it's the same price there would be no additional payment needed.  If ABD had offered something similar to DCL (125% credit) I would have jumped at it, but a straight transfer wasn't interesting to me given that they have all $24K for the next 14 months and I have no options to cancel.
> 
> We have 3 kids...one each in high school, middle school, and elementary school...scheduling is a bear.  While, in theory, taking the same trip next year wouldn't be a scheduling issue I feel much better knowing I have until next March for final payment rather than going all in right now.  As such, my plan is to get the refund in the next week or two and then re-book the same trip for 2021 only paying the deposit for right now.
> 
> In my mind, the biggest risk with this plan is potentially missing out on the early booking discount but that's a risk I'm willing to take in order to get for flexibility.  Plus, Norway is not one of the top demanded trips.
> 
> Hopefully the cancellation comes soon.



We're booked on 7/24 Italy/Switzerland and PIF also.  I don't think scheduling will work for us to take the trip next year, so I'm also waiting for a cancellation.  I can't imagine any significant travel happening this year.


----------



## MiddKid

MiddKid said:


> It’s so funny...in all my analysis and over-analysis of the situation I never thought about putting down another deposit (I guess it’s just the avoidance of giving ABD MORE money).  But you’re right...no risk.  I may have to call today.
> Thanks!



Well, I just called to book Norway 2021 on top of our Norway 2020 which hasn't been cancelled yet.  She asked if it was our first trip and I said yes.  She then informed me that I'd have to wait until May 19.  I asked if the fact that I'm fully paid on our 2020 trip would count but apparently it doesn't...you have to complete the trip.  So another week of unknowns...maybe (one can hope) that by the 19th they will have cancelled our 2020 trip.


----------



## lovetotravel

MiddKid said:


> Well, I just called to book Norway 2021 on top of our Norway 2020 which hasn't been cancelled yet.  She asked if it was our first trip and I said yes.  She then informed me that I'd have to wait until May 19.  I asked if the fact that I'm fully paid on our 2020 trip would count but apparently it doesn't...you have to complete the trip.  So another week of unknowns...maybe (one can hope) that by the 19th they will have cancelled our 2020 trip.


Worth a try! Hopefully it will be there next week.


----------



## helenk

Middkid, I  was listening to the Podcast a few days ago about booking for 2021 and Kevin had said that your trip had to be completed prior to May 12th to take advantage of the advanced booking date.


----------



## sayhello

helenk said:


> Middkid, I  was listening to the Podcast a few days ago about booking for 2021 and Kevin had said that your trip had to be completed prior to May 12th to take advantage of the advanced booking date.


That has always been the case since they started the Adventure Insider program.  You are not considered an Adventure Insider until after you have *taken* your first ABD. 

Sayhello


----------



## chuff88

We decided to move our August deposit for Greece to New Zealand in February 2022. I wish we felt comfortable traveling sooner but we’re very excited to see New Zealand!!


----------



## MiddKid

helenk said:


> Middkid, I  was listening to the Podcast a few days ago about booking for 2021 and Kevin had said that your trip had to be completed prior to May 12th to take advantage of the advanced booking date.



Yup...our first ever ABD trip is July 4 and it will be cancelled.  I'm fully paid off so I called hoping that since they had over $20K of my money they'd consider me a returning member.  Alas, that's not the case.  Need to actually take the trip.


----------



## Candycane83

So finally my Med cruise is cancelled! Yay! And I just called Lufthansa and got a full refund because my flight from Madrid to Toronto was changed to one with a stopover. Now just waiting for DCL to send me my email so I can change my booking for next year....


----------



## StephHow83

Candycane83 said:


> So finally my Med cruise is cancelled! Yay! And I just called Lufthansa and got a full refund because my flight from Madrid to Toronto was changed to one with a stopover. Now just waiting for DCL to send me my email so I can change my booking for next year....


I’m patiently waiting for my Peru July ABD to be cancelled but I’m feeling a little jealous of the cruise 125% off discount for next year...almost wish I would’ve had a cruise booked to be cancelled!!


----------



## Candycane83

StephHow83 said:


> I’m patiently waiting for my Peru July ABD to be cancelled but I’m feeling a little jealous of the cruise 125% off discount for next year...almost wish I would’ve had a cruise booked to be cancelled!!


Good luck with ABD! I hope they do cancel soon!

Lol as for the cruise, I’m planning to rebook Alaska next year, hubby decided he didn’t want to go to Europe next summer. With the 125% of my cancelled 5 night cruise, I’m able to almost fully pay my 7 night Alaska one ($300? more) so I’m ok with it. Only thing is how cruising will actually go from here...


----------



## MiddKid

ABD Covid statement on their website is now updated with the DCL cancellations.  All other cancellations are only through June 30 still.  Hopefully later this week or early next week...


----------



## Candycane83

So another update, before my PIF, I moved my deposit as a placeholder for my Barcelona short escape. They cancelled this adventure along with the cruise cancellations today. I just got an email from my TA that she was able to get me a refund back for my deposit which is really amazing! Wasn’t expecting it at all so I’m absolutely grateful she got that for me!
Now just some hotels to cancel and I’d be golden! I did have some tours who couldn’t refund and just gave me a lifetime credit. Hope they don’t go out of business!


----------



## TXTransplant

Some countries are taking an interesting approach to opening back up - basically you take a COVID-19 test when you arrive at the airport, or bring a "clean bill of health" from a physician.

I wouldn't think companies like ABD would necessarily be able to hold tours under these conditions, because what if a customer tested positive (or falsely positive) at the airport.  I'm sure you would not be getting a refund, and I know I wouldn't want to risk losing that much money.

But it certainly opens an interesting can of worms, if technically travel is "open" in some places.

https://thepointsguy.com/news/travel-to-iceland-reopen/


----------



## Candycane83

TXTransplant said:


> Some countries are taking an interesting approach to opening back up - basically you take a COVID-19 test when you arrive at the airport, or bring a "clean bill of health" from a physician.
> 
> I wouldn't think companies like ABD wouldn't necessarily be able to hold tours under these conditions, because what if a customer tested positive (or falsely positive) at the airport.  I'm sure you would not be getting a refund, and I know I wouldn't want to risk losing that much money.
> 
> But it certainly opens an interesting can of worms, if technically travel is "open" in some places.
> 
> https://thepointsguy.com/news/travel-to-iceland-reopen/


I saw this and was thinking it would make more sense to test at departure rather than arrival. It is nice that they are open but if I were to self isolate, I would want to do it at home rather than at a country I’m supposed to have a vacation at....


----------



## lovetotravel

Candycane83 said:


> I saw this and was thinking it would make more sense to test at departure rather than arrival. It is nice that they are open but if I were to self isolate, I would want to do it at home rather than at a country I’m supposed to have a vacation at....





TXTransplant said:


> Some countries are taking an interesting approach to opening back up - basically you take a COVID-19 test when you arrive at the airport, or bring a "clean bill of health" from a physician.
> 
> I wouldn't think companies like ABD wouldn't necessarily be able to hold tours under these conditions, because what if a customer tested positive (or falsely positive) at the airport.  I'm sure you would not be getting a refund, and I know I wouldn't want to risk losing that much money.
> 
> But it certainly opens an interesting can of worms, if technically travel is "open" in some places.
> 
> https://thepointsguy.com/news/travel-to-iceland-reopen/


What if you caught COVID 19 in transit to the trip at the airport or the plane? This is really complex. What if you had symptoms but not COVID 19?


----------



## TXTransplant

lovetotravel said:


> What if you caught COVID 19 in transit to the trip at the airport or the plane? This is really complex. What if you had symptoms but not COVID 19?



I had all the same thoughts.  

I'd probably prefer to bring a letter from my doctor, but I wonder how many would be willing to give a "clean bill of health" without administering a test - which is still hard to get if you don't have symptoms.


----------



## DCPhotoGal

TXTransplant said:


> Some countries are taking an interesting approach to opening back up - basically you take a COVID-19 test when you arrive at the airport, or bring a "clean bill of health" from a physician.
> 
> I wouldn't think companies like ABD would necessarily be able to hold tours under these conditions, because what if a customer tested positive (or falsely positive) at the airport.  I'm sure you would not be getting a refund, and I know I wouldn't want to risk losing that much money.
> 
> But it certainly opens an interesting can of worms, if technically travel is "open" in some places.
> 
> https://thepointsguy.com/news/travel-to-iceland-reopen/



We are booked on the July 8th Iceland trip.  I'm very curious if we'll be able to go.  If the trip runs we will likely get the tests in hand before we leave.


----------



## Grifdog22

DCPhotoGal said:


> We are booked on the July 8th Iceland trip.  I'm very curious if we'll be able to go.  If the trip runs we will likely get the tests in hand before we leave.


How would you get the tests in hand?  I have neighbors that don't meet the strict criteria for the test and they won't test them. We all think they have it and wish they would get tested - we avoid the like the plague (because it is!) but still talk regularly.  Please share how you would do this - many people would like to take advantage of that!


----------



## Rapunzellover

Griffdog-  what state are you in?  I'm in CA and know folks who got the test, no criteria.  Both the virus test and antibody test.  All they had to do was ask.


----------



## Grifdog22

Rapunzellover said:


> Griffdog-  what state are you in?  I'm in CA and know folks who got the test, no criteria.  Both the virus test and antibody test.  All they had to do was ask.


We are in Virginia - last week we ranked 48th out of 50th for testing.  Virginia began reopening in most of the Commonwealth yesterday, despite numbers/deaths that keep rising.  Multiple localities opted out of the reopening, and the Governor (being a medical doctor) allowed them to do so. Here in Northwest Virginia we have a constant hoard of whackos from the North invade us daily, no masks, no distancing, all in poor health, usually with loaded guns, demanding their rights to shop and infect in our state. According to our department of health, the average number of citizens tested began DECLINING on April 28....out here we still don't have enough test kits...and yes, we are only 85 miles away from the man that says everyone in the nation can have one.


----------



## DCPhotoGal

Grifdog22 said:


> We are in Virginia - last week we ranked 48th out of 50th for testing.  Virginia began reopening in most of the Commonwealth yesterday, despite numbers/deaths that keep rising.  Multiple localities opted out of the reopening, and the Governor (being a medical doctor) allowed them to do so. Here in Northwest Virginia we have a constant hoard of whackos from the North invade us daily, no masks, no distancing, all in poor health, usually with loaded guns, demanding their rights to shop and infect in our state. According to our department of health, the average number of citizens tested began DECLINING on April 28....out here we still don't have enough test kits...and yes, we are only 85 miles away from the man that says everyone in the nation can have one.


We are Virginia, too, but over in the part that is still closed up for another 2 weeks at least.  I know the antibody tests are available on demand for $10, walk-in or appointment.  I have a lot of friends who have done it (all had negative results, which tells me either the test isn't super accurate or all of the flus/viruses people had back in March and April weren't COVID).  For the trip, I would arrange for testing locally, I don't think it would be an issue if you have a need for it (IE required for travel).


----------



## sayhello

Well, heaven knows what it means, but every single land ABD that has dates listed for July of 2020 now says "Now Accepting Waitlist - Please Call for Details".

Sayhello


----------



## lovetotravel

sayhello said:


> Well, heaven knows what it means, but every single land ABD that has dates listed for July of 2020 now says "Now Accepting Waitlist - Please Call for Details".
> 
> Sayhello


I called about this! I have a July ABD and they said they have to let vendors know at a certain time about trip numbers and usually close the trip closer to the date. But one can assume that they might also be getting ready to cancel??? Who knows!!


----------



## helenk

It's interesting because this is what the dates for our Japan trip say:   "Now Accepting Waitlist - Please Call for DetailsThis departure is currently unavailable for booking. Please call for details."  Just the other day it just said that the departure was currently unavailable for booking.  The dates are July 5th through the 15th. I can't imagine that this trip will go ahead.


----------



## helenk

Japan still is not letting people in from the US in. For now that is in effect until the end of May.


----------



## nemofans

The Abbott antibody test thats used here is 85% accurate giving it a 15% error in results.  The Roche antibody test is 94% accurate and is being used in the UK.  My family is hoping the Roche test will make its way to the US bc we would feel better about trusting the results from that one.


----------



## Jess_S

Grifdog22 said:


> Prices seem MUCH higher!


I noticed this too. Raising prices significantly seemed like an odd strategy to me with a global recession likely to drive travel demand down. I am hoping they will readjust downward for 2022; I can't justify paying the 2021 prices.


----------



## sayhello

Jess_S said:


> I noticed this too. Raising prices significantly seemed like an odd strategy to me with a global recession likely to drive travel demand down. I am hoping they will readjust downward for 2022; I can't justify paying the 2021 prices.


I guess we'll see what happens.  I also think it's a strange strategy given the 2009 season debacle when the economy tanked in 2008.  ABD had to do trip cancellations left and right.  Oh, well, who knows what they are thinking?  It will be interesting to see what happens when the PIF dates for all these bookings rolls around, since the deposits are refundable until then.  They might be surprised just how many people booked "just in case" and fully intend to cancel.  Or maybe I'll be surprised when they don't!

Sayhello


----------



## scottmel

Which trip are higher priced? I booked Italy next May seemed normal from past years?


----------



## Jess_S

I looked specifically at Africa and the river cruises because those are the two trips highest on my list. I am working from memory when I priced them last year, but both look to be up by about 500 per person over last year. Scotland looks like the opening price is the same as last year, so maybe it varies trip to trip.


----------



## TarotFox

I thought the river cruises went up on a different date?


----------



## MiddKid

So June trips were cancelled on April 20. I’m assuming we’re going to have to see some actions on the July trips this week. I think with reservations opening on the 19th for 2021, the 18th and 19th are out for announcements. So I’m assuming we’ll get the word somewhere between Wednesday or Friday.

I’m literally supposed to be in Norway for our ABD in 48 days. Meanwhile, Norway is saying to to expect travel restrictions to not lift until August at the earliest. Let’s get this cancelled!


----------



## lovetotravel

MiddKid said:


> So June trips were cancelled on April 20. I’m assuming we’re going to have to see some actions on the July trips this week. I think with reservations opening on the 19th for 2021, the 18th and 19th are out for announcements. So I’m assuming we’ll get the word somewhere between Wednesday or Friday.
> 
> I’m literally supposed to be in Norway for our ABD in 48 days. Meanwhile, Norway is saying to to expect travel restrictions to not lift until August at the earliest. Let’s get this cancelled!


With travel restrictions now into mid June from other countries, I can't imagine July trips happening.
"Current border restrictions prohibiting foreigners from entering Costa Rica continue through June 15."
"Government of Egypt will review all measures in mid-June."
"Thailand Extends Ban on Incoming International Flights Until June 30"

I trust ABD is monitoring situations on the ground at their destinations. But at some point it will be a challenge to predict if summer travel will happen unless restrictions are lifted. We have CDC travel restrictions still at Warning - Level 3, Avoid Nonessential Travel and as US Dept of State Global Level 4 Health Advisory – Do Not Travel.

International travel is so complex, with layover at international locations, and as someone posted, what if we needed tests, before, during, and at arrival of travel. Then you add wearing the mask for hours in an airplane with having to take it off to eat, forcing everyone in your party to wash hands and keep the mask on, etc. It will feel like work and not a vacation because I will need to bring a suitcase of sanitation supplies!


----------



## helenk

We just got notified that our trip in July to Japan has been canceled.


----------



## sayhello

MiddKid said:


> So June trips were cancelled on April 20. I’m assuming we’re going to have to see some actions on the July trips this week. I think with reservations opening on the 19th for 2021, the 18th and 19th are out for announcements. So I’m assuming we’ll get the word somewhere between Wednesday or Friday.
> 
> I’m literally supposed to be in Norway for our ABD in 48 days. Meanwhile, Norway is saying to to expect travel restrictions to not lift until August at the earliest. Let’s get this cancelled!


It's apparently been officially announced at 10am this morning that all land ABD itineraries for July have been cancelled.  Emails are going out as we speak.

Sayhello


----------



## MiddKid

sayhello said:


> It's apparently been officially announced at 10am this morning that all land ABD itineraries for July have been cancelled.  Emails are going out as we speak.
> 
> Sayhello


Yup!  Got my email this morning. 

They make it clear if you are displaced you can rebook today. I want to rebook, BUT I want a refund first (no reason for ABD to hold onto my $27k for the next 13 months). Going to try and call later today and see if they’ll let me do the refund/rebook process.


----------



## OKW Lover

We are on a late September Southwest Splendors tour.  I'm hoping it will work, but going to hold off buying our flights for a while longer.


----------



## sayhello

MiddKid said:


> Yup!  Got my email this morning.
> 
> They make it clear if you are displaced you can rebook today. I want to rebook, BUT I want a refund first (no reason for ABD to hold onto my $27k for the next 13 months). Going to try and call later today and see if they’ll let me do the refund/rebook process.


Good to know, although crazy you only get one day before they open to the public!  Good luck.  I sure hope ABD is reasonable about your money!

Sayhello


----------



## TXTransplant

Nat Geo just called to cancel our Alaska trip.  I was expecting it, since they called two weeks ago to explain what my options would be if they did cancel.

They call everyone individually, so there won't be any mass email that goes out about their trips.

Said it will take 2-3 weeks for a refund, which will be to my cc.  I really don't want a $14k credit on my account, so I'm going to see if they will issue a check when the refund comes.

Rebooking, even for NEXT summer, isn't even an option because the school calendar is basically no longer valid and there is all sorts of talk of changing things that may include starting school on Aug. 1 2020 and going until the END of June 2021.


----------



## scottmel

So if july cancelled do August trips get chance to move like July trips did when June cancelled?


----------



## sayhello

TXTransplant said:


> Nat Geo just called to cancel our Alaska trip.  I was expecting it, since they called two weeks ago to explain what my options would be if they did cancel.
> 
> They call everyone individually, so there won't be any mass email that goes out about their trips.
> 
> Said it will take 2-3 weeks for a refund, which will be to my cc.  I really don't want a $14k credit on my account, so I'm going to see if they will issue a check when the refund comes.
> 
> Rebooking, even for NEXT summer, isn't even an option because the school calendar is basically no longer valid and there is all sorts of talk of changing things that may include starting school on Aug. 1 2020 and going until the END of June 2021.


My credit card has never had an issue in the past cutting me a check for any credits (or overpayments) I've had on my accounts.

Sayhello


----------



## helenk

I am going to take the refund from our Japan trip.  It will be interesting to see how they give me my refund because I paid using 2 different credit cards.


----------



## Cousin Orville

helenk said:


> I am going to take the refund from our Japan trip.  It will be interesting to see how they give me my refund because I paid using 2 different credit cards.



If you get a refund, it will go back to the original method(s) of payment.  So, if you broke up the payments on 2 cards, the refund will return to those 2 cards.  That's how all merchants have to do it, not just ABD.


----------



## Cousin Orville

OKW Lover said:


> We are on a late September Southwest Splendors tour.  I'm hoping it will work, but going to hold off buying our flights for a while longer.



That one will be interesting to see if it goes.  The US trips have 2 less hurdles that overseas trips have - the US State Dept Level 4 travel advisory (advising against all unnecessary foreign travel) and any foreign governments ban or quarantine requirements on incoming travel.   I'm just reading the tea leaves here as Pete would say, but I'm guessing there will be a period of time where US ABD's resume but foreign ABDs don't.

I hope yours goes too.  We have an Oct Backstage Magic ABD.  Hope that goes.  One of the big hurdles ABD is going to have in Sep and Oct is a likelihood of social distancing staying in place unless the COVID numbers really drop.  Not sure that's possible with ABD.

We also have the Rhone in Sept.  Unless US trips resume in Aug or the travel advisory changes, I don't think that will go.  I'll be very interested to see how River or Ocean cruises plan to deal with social distancing.


----------



## MiddKid

Just called.  Got right through with less than a minute wait.

Cancelled our two reservations (party of 5) for 7/4/20 Norway for full refunds.
Booked two new reservations for 7/3/21 for exact same price.

Bummed that we have to wait another year but in the grand scheme of things, no big deal.  Glad to have a full refund though!!!


----------



## KLondon

This is a great thread - very therapeutic, if nothing else 

We live in Canada and have been on a number of great ABD trip over the years. But I have never really known much about 'placeholder status'. Can someone explain this for my situation? Here's the deal:

We booked ABD Greece for end of May 2020 that was PIF for 3 adults. When that trip was cancelled back in March, we immediately re-booked the same trip for the end of Aug 2020. In hindsight, that was supremely dumb and we should have just taken the credit or refund and then cooled our heels until at least 2021. Anyways, what's done is done.

We have decided that we are not comfortable taking this trip in August. I know Greece is planning to open tourism starting in July, but it will not be business-as-usual and there will be a safety factor. If I'm going to pay thousands on a vacation, I'd rather it feel like vacation. So I believe I have a few options:

1. Cancel the trip right away and the PIF amount goes into placeholder status. As I understand things, I would need to book a trip by May 2021 and this would be a one-time thing. I would not receive any discounts for that trip and I could not cancel that trip without the 75%-100% penalty I would face if I outright cancelled my current trip. So I could use this and book the Greece trip for maybe Sept 2021 and hope/expect things would be closer to normal by then.

2. Cancel the trip right away and get a minimal-to-no refund, and then use my OYO trip insurance to cover my costs. My policy was purchased before the Canadian government issue a non-essential travel advisory, so that is how would justify a claim (and then cross my fingers).

3. Simply wait it out and see if ABD cancels the Aug Greece trip and then take the refund (or maybe credit) for future travel. I'm guessing any cancellations for August (if they happen) would not be announced until maybe mid-June. And there's also the risk that Greece will not allow US and/or Canadians into the country this Summer as part of the re-opening plans, so that might decide things for ABD anyways.

Sorry for the long-winded preamble, but here's my question: *How does the deadline work to move PIF cost into placeholder?* Can I wait until literally the last minute to do this, or is there a drop-dead timeline before the trip date? My inclination is to wait it out (option #3) with a backup plan to use placeholder (option #1) if ABD does not cancel. Like others on this thread, I'm trying to balance the fact that we are not taking this trip in August with the financial hit we may take for canceling.

Any advice on this?

And if you made it this far through my post, I thank you! lol

As postscript:  The reason we chose Greece was really my son. He graduated college last year and, as a celebration of that milestone, our gift to him was the choice of a vacation. He chose Greece, and ABD checked the most boxes for what he wanted to see in the time he has available to travel. No matter what, we will take him to Greece - just a question of 'when'!


----------



## scottmel

I would honestly await ABD to cancel Greece on you. Because they cancelled the first one on you, you would move what you have now to placeholder status. But that is where I am now and it is awful. I can't wait to either take this placeheld trip in August or have it cancelled. You will miss all incentives for Greece for 2021.
If this were me, I would rebook 2021 now on it's own reservation say for August 2021 taking advantage of early discount. You will have up until your PIF date (april?) to pull the plug and get your deposit back.

THEN this current reservation you have sit on it and wait for ABD to cancel. You will get full refund and the above Greece trip you booked remains on the books.

THEN if for some crazy reason you take the trip this August you cancel the above trip.

I really don't forsee ABD taking you to Greece in August. I would hang tight for the cancel but at least have that back up trip booked to get early discount for 2021


----------



## DisneyWishes14

KLondon said:


> This is a great thread - very therapeutic, if nothing else
> 
> We live in Canada and have been on a number of great ABD trip over the years. But I have never really known much about 'placeholder status'. Can someone explain this for my situation? Here's the deal:
> 
> We booked ABD Greece for end of May 2020 that was PIF for 3 adults. When that trip was cancelled back in March, we immediately re-booked the same trip for the end of Aug 2020. In hindsight, that was supremely dumb and we should have just taken the credit or refund and then cooled our heels until at least 2021. Anyways, what's done is done.
> 
> We have decided that we are not comfortable taking this trip in August. I know Greece is planning to open tourism starting in July, but it will not be business-as-usual and there will be a safety factor. If I'm going to pay thousands on a vacation, I'd rather it feel like vacation. So I believe I have a few options:
> 
> 1. Cancel the trip right away and the PIF amount goes into placeholder status. As I understand things, I would need to book a trip by May 2021 and this would be a one-time thing. I would not receive any discounts for that trip and I could not cancel that trip without the 75%-100% penalty I would face if I outright cancelled my current trip. So I could use this and book the Greece trip for maybe Sept 2021 and hope/expect things would be closer to normal by then.
> 
> 2. Cancel the trip right away and get a minimal-to-no refund, and then use my OYO trip insurance to cover my costs. My policy was purchased before the Canadian government issue a non-essential travel advisory, so that is how would justify a claim (and then cross my fingers).
> 
> 3. Simply wait it out and see if ABD cancels the Aug Greece trip and then take the refund (or maybe credit) for future travel. I'm guessing any cancellations for August (if they happen) would not be announced until maybe mid-June. And there's also the risk that Greece will not allow US and/or Canadians into the country this Summer as part of the re-opening plans, so that might decide things for ABD anyways.
> 
> Sorry for the long-winded preamble, but here's my question: *How does the deadline work to move PIF cost into placeholder?* Can I wait until literally the last minute to do this, or is there a drop-dead timeline before the trip date? My inclination is to wait it out (option #3) with a backup plan to use placeholder (option #1) if ABD does not cancel. Like others on this thread, I'm trying to balance the fact that we are not taking this trip in August with the financial hit we may take for canceling.
> 
> Any advice on this?
> 
> And if you made it this far through my post, I thank you! lol
> 
> As postscript:  The reason we chose Greece was really my son. He graduated college last year and, as a celebration of that milestone, our gift to him was the choice of a vacation. He chose Greece, and ABD checked the most boxes for what he wanted to see in the time he has available to travel. No matter what, we will take him to Greece - just a question of 'when'!



We just put our August 9 Rhine Cruise deposit into placeholder statues.  I have until two years after I made the initial deposit to book our next ABD, so I have until early January 2022 to book.  At that point, I can book any trip ABD has released, but I cannot take advantage of any discounts that may be offered.


----------



## helenk

Well, I decided to take the refund from this year's trip to Japan and put it on a trip to Japan next year.  I actually got the early booking discount this time so I saved money. I had paid for the after trip to Tokyo Disney that is being refunded to me now as that can't be booked until late December early January.  I can still cancel this new trip for a full refund until my PIF in March. I am happy with my decision to re-book.


----------



## scottmel

DisneyWishes14 said:


> We just put our August 9 Rhine Cruise deposit into placeholder statues.  I have until two years after I made the initial deposit to book our next ABD, so I have until early January 2022 to book.  At that point, I can book any trip ABD has released, but I cannot take advantage of any discounts that may be offered.


can I ask why you didn't wait for ABD To cancel on you? When I spoke with ABD last week they indicated they were taking into consideration the quarrentine that a current country or state may require of someone. She indicated the next rounds of cancellations always start with the river cruises and suspected they were next for August.


----------



## Theta

KLondon said:


> This is a great thread - very therapeutic, if nothing else
> 
> We live in Canada and have been on a number of great ABD trip over the years. But I have never really known much about 'placeholder status'. Can someone explain this for my situation? Here's the deal:
> 
> We booked ABD Greece for end of May 2020 that was PIF for 3 adults. When that trip was cancelled back in March, we immediately re-booked the same trip for the end of Aug 2020. In hindsight, that was supremely dumb and we should have just taken the credit or refund and then cooled our heels until at least 2021. Anyways, what's done is done.
> 
> We have decided that we are not comfortable taking this trip in August. I know Greece is planning to open tourism starting in July, but it will not be business-as-usual and there will be a safety factor. If I'm going to pay thousands on a vacation, I'd rather it feel like vacation. So I believe I have a few options:
> 
> 1. Cancel the trip right away and the PIF amount goes into placeholder status. As I understand things, I would need to book a trip by May 2021 and this would be a one-time thing. I would not receive any discounts for that trip and I could not cancel that trip without the 75%-100% penalty I would face if I outright cancelled my current trip. So I could use this and book the Greece trip for maybe Sept 2021 and hope/expect things would be closer to normal by then.
> 
> 2. Cancel the trip right away and get a minimal-to-no refund, and then use my OYO trip insurance to cover my costs. My policy was purchased before the Canadian government issue a non-essential travel advisory, so that is how would justify a claim (and then cross my fingers).
> 
> 3. Simply wait it out and see if ABD cancels the Aug Greece trip and then take the refund (or maybe credit) for future travel. I'm guessing any cancellations for August (if they happen) would not be announced until maybe mid-June. And there's also the risk that Greece will not allow US and/or Canadians into the country this Summer as part of the re-opening plans, so that might decide things for ABD anyways.
> 
> Sorry for the long-winded preamble, but here's my question: *How does the deadline work to move PIF cost into placeholder?* Can I wait until literally the last minute to do this, or is there a drop-dead timeline before the trip date? My inclination is to wait it out (option #3) with a backup plan to use placeholder (option #1) if ABD does not cancel. Like others on this thread, I'm trying to balance the fact that we are not taking this trip in August with the financial hit we may take for canceling.
> 
> Any advice on this?
> 
> And if you made it this far through my post, I thank you! lol
> 
> As postscript:  The reason we chose Greece was really my son. He graduated college last year and, as a celebration of that milestone, our gift to him was the choice of a vacation. He chose Greece, and ABD checked the most boxes for what he wanted to see in the time he has available to travel. No matter what, we will take him to Greece - just a question of 'when'!




I agree, wait for them to cancel and get your money refunded.  Then you can take advantage of any discounts moving forward with a new booking.


----------



## sayhello

scottmel said:


> can I ask why you didn't wait for ABD To cancel on you? When I spoke with ABD last week they indicated they were taking into consideration the quarrentine that a current country or state may require of someone. She indicated the next rounds of cancellations always start with the river cruises and suspected they were next for August.


The reason they always start with the river cruises is because AmaWaterways is way more proactive than ABD, and has been cancelling whole months' worth of river cruises months in advance.  At that point, ABD has to cancel, because they don't have a ship.

Sayhello


----------



## Mathmagicland

scottmel said:


> can I ask why you didn't wait for ABD To cancel on you? When I spoke with ABD last week they indicated they were taking into consideration the quarrentine that a current country or state may require of someone. She indicated the next rounds of cancellations always start with the river cruises and suspected they were next for August.


I too am sitting on that same August 9 Rhine Cruise, and am waiting for AbD to cancel it; I expect that to be within the next three weeks as that would take it to around 60 days prior to departure. As it is already a moved deposit from another AbD, I think I need to wait for them to cancel it.


----------



## KLondon

scottmel said:


> I would honestly await ABD to cancel Greece on you. Because they cancelled the first one on you, you would move what you have now to placeholder status. But that is where I am now and it is awful. I can't wait to either take this placeheld trip in August or have it cancelled. You will miss all incentives for Greece for 2021.
> If this were me, I would rebook 2021 now on it's own reservation say for August 2021 taking advantage of early discount. You will have up until your PIF date (april?) to pull the plug and get your deposit back.
> 
> THEN this current reservation you have sit on it and wait for ABD to cancel. You will get full refund and the above Greece trip you booked remains on the books.
> 
> THEN if for some crazy reason you take the trip this August you cancel the above trip.
> 
> I really don't forsee ABD taking you to Greece in August. I would hang tight for the cancel but at least have that back up trip booked to get early discount for 2021





Theta said:


> I agree, wait for them to cancel and get your money refunded.  Then you can take advantage of any discounts moving forward with a new booking.



Thank-you for the advice! You all make a lot of sense and I will simply wait this out and see what happens.

One last question, if I might. In the (probably unlikely) scenario where ABD did not cancel the Aug 28 Greece trip and I decided to cancel on my own, I assume it's Disney's discretion whether to put me into placeholder status for the cost of trip. For example, if I decide 3 weeks before the departure date to officially cancel, can I expect to get placeholder status (with the associated restrictions on booking a future trip)?


----------



## Theta

KLondon said:


> Thank-you for the advice! You all make a lot of sense and I will simply wait this out and see what happens.
> 
> One last question, if I might. In the (probably unlikely) scenario where ABD did not cancel the Aug 28 Greece trip and I decided to cancel on my own, I assume it's Disney's discretion whether to put me into placeholder status for the cost of trip. For example, if I decide 3 weeks before the departure date to officially cancel, can I expect to get placeholder status (with the associated restrictions on booking a future trip)?




I know it is hard to wait.  We were booked for Japan and it pained me to pay the $40K in full when I felt 98% chance it was going to be cancelled, but I waited them out and got everything back including deposit.  The refund came very quickly once cancelled.


----------



## TarotFox

But if you PIF, do you lose the chance of changing it into a placeholder? I'm more worried about the trip NOT being canceled.


----------



## DisneyWishes14

scottmel said:


> can I ask why you didn't wait for ABD To cancel on you? When I spoke with ABD last week they indicated they were taking into consideration the quarrentine that a current country or state may require of someone. She indicated the next rounds of cancellations always start with the river cruises and suspected they were next for August.



I put my deposit into placeholder status on our PIF date.  I didn't want to PIF ($22K, eek!) and play the wait and see game.  I know there is a big chance that that cruise will be canceled (and I keep checking Ama's site to see if they update their cruise suspension date), but I felt more secure having a credit that I can use as late as January 2022 than plunking down $22,000 and keeping my fingers crossed for a full refund.  I'll use the credit and I like that I have so much time to make up my mind on how we will use it.


----------



## MiddKid

Theta said:


> I know it is hard to wait.  We were booked for Japan and it pained me to pay the $40K in full when I felt 98% chance it was going to be cancelled, but I waited them out and got everything back including deposit.  The refund came very quickly once cancelled.


Curious, how long was “very quickly?”  Cancelled our trip last Monday. I’m being patient (they told me it could take up to 60 days for the refund), but it’s always stressful to have $26K just floating around out there!


----------



## StephHow83

MiddKid said:


> Curious, how long was “very quickly?”  Cancelled our trip last Monday. I’m being patient (they told me it could take up to 60 days for the refund), but it’s always stressful to have $26K just floating around out there!


Ours cancelled last week and I was told the average lately was 6-15 days...but who knows!!


----------



## helenk

I re-booked my trip on 5/18. The refund for the difference was on my credit card by May 21. I was surprised to see it so quickly.


----------



## lovetotravel

KLondon said:


> This is a great thread - very therapeutic, if nothing else
> 
> We live in Canada and have been on a number of great ABD trip over the years. But I have never really known much about 'placeholder status'. Can someone explain this for my situation? Here's the deal:
> 
> We booked ABD Greece for end of May 2020 that was PIF for 3 adults. When that trip was cancelled back in March, we immediately re-booked the same trip for the end of Aug 2020. In hindsight, that was supremely dumb and we should have just taken the credit or refund and then cooled our heels until at least 2021. Anyways, what's done is done.
> 
> We have decided that we are not comfortable taking this trip in August. I know Greece is planning to open tourism starting in July, but it will not be business-as-usual and there will be a safety factor. If I'm going to pay thousands on a vacation, I'd rather it feel like vacation. So I believe I have a few options:
> 
> 1. Cancel the trip right away and the PIF amount goes into placeholder status. As I understand things, I would need to book a trip by May 2021 and this would be a one-time thing. I would not receive any discounts for that trip and I could not cancel that trip without the 75%-100% penalty I would face if I outright cancelled my current trip. So I could use this and book the Greece trip for maybe Sept 2021 and hope/expect things would be closer to normal by then.
> 
> 2. Cancel the trip right away and get a minimal-to-no refund, and then use my OYO trip insurance to cover my costs. My policy was purchased before the Canadian government issue a non-essential travel advisory, so that is how would justify a claim (and then cross my fingers).
> 
> 3. Simply wait it out and see if ABD cancels the Aug Greece trip and then take the refund (or maybe credit) for future travel. I'm guessing any cancellations for August (if they happen) would not be announced until maybe mid-June. And there's also the risk that Greece will not allow US and/or Canadians into the country this Summer as part of the re-opening plans, so that might decide things for ABD anyways.
> 
> Sorry for the long-winded preamble, but here's my question: *How does the deadline work to move PIF cost into placeholder?* Can I wait until literally the last minute to do this, or is there a drop-dead timeline before the trip date? My inclination is to wait it out (option #3) with a backup plan to use placeholder (option #1) if ABD does not cancel. Like others on this thread, I'm trying to balance the fact that we are not taking this trip in August with the financial hit we may take for canceling.
> 
> Any advice on this?
> 
> And if you made it this far through my post, I thank you! lol
> 
> As postscript:  The reason we chose Greece was really my son. He graduated college last year and, as a celebration of that milestone, our gift to him was the choice of a vacation. He chose Greece, and ABD checked the most boxes for what he wanted to see in the time he has available to travel. No matter what, we will take him to Greece - just a question of 'when'!


I've been in your situation 3 times this year. I've had 3 cancelled ABD trips this summer. One I canceled myself and took a placeholder. Two were cancelled by ABD. It was stressful waiting if ABD would cancel but they did, and it was a relief. But I was also willing to go if ABD went and took a big chance hoping for a cancel, but worked in my favor.

If you are not willing to go at any cost, I would take the placeholder. I know at the time that I was waiting for ABD to cancel, I was confident that things will not get better. Right now, things are different in that places are opening up, even though things are not significantly better than when it first closed down. Of course no one can predict what will happen in August, and I would bet that ABD would not risk bringing guests internationally again (due to Australia and London fiasco) with all the travel bans still in place. So you still have a cancellation in your favor since this is an international trip.

So if a placeholder will not have a penalty and ABD will permit it, and you won't have to travel and don't want to, why not take it? Especially since you are willing to take a credit if ABD cancels anyway? I know you won't receive a discount which will amount to about $250-$750 per person, but that might be less loss than cancelling later and getting only 75% back.
Waiting is also a good option as others have mentioned, but if that trip goes, you'll cancel anyway.


----------



## Theta

MiddKid said:


> Curious, how long was “very quickly?”  Cancelled our trip last Monday. I’m being patient (they told me it could take up to 60 days for the refund), but it’s always stressful to have $26K just floating around out there!




Our refund took about 5-7 days, but our trip was in the first group of trips that were canceled.


----------



## lovetotravel

You can now change August adventures.


----------



## scottmel

lovetotravel said:


> You can now change August adventures.


I still think the smarter play is to wait for cancel correct? I’m assuming if you move this your locked into new date with no early discount ?


----------



## lovetotravel

scottmel said:


> I still think the smarter play is to wait for cancel correct? I’m assuming if you move this your locked into new date with no early discount ?


Well if they don't cancel you would need to go on the trip. Perhaps they are doing a case by case trip cancellation depending on safety of location??? The flexible 14 day cancel prior to start day is certainly a lot more generous than their previous policies! Way to go ABD!


----------



## scottmel

lovetotravel said:


> Well if they don't cancel you would need to go on the trip. Perhaps they are doing a case by case trip cancellation depending on safety of location??? The flexible 14 day cancel prior to start day is certainly a lot more generous than their previous policies! Way to go ABD!



So if my trip leaves August 6th I can drag this out until July 22nd to make the change correct? Seems like easy choice to wait until then to decide unless I’m missing something.


----------



## Mathmagicland

scottmel said:


> I still think the smarter play is to wait for cancel correct? I’m assuming if you move this your locked into new date with no early discount ?


I believe this is correct because you’d have the same reservation number & thus the new adventure would technically not be “new”.  That’s what happened to me when I moved a reservation last year - no EBD on the changed itinerary even though one was available at the time.

I’m holding out for them to cancel, as you note we have until 14 days prior to move it so if they don’t cancel & you’d rather not travel, you could move it then


----------



## lovetotravel

Yes 


Mathmagicland said:


> I believe this is correct because you’d have the same reservation number & thus the new adventure would technically not be “new”.  That’s what happened to me when I moved a reservation last year - no EBD on the changed itinerary even though one was available at the time.
> 
> I’m holding out for them to cancel, as you note we have until 14 days prior to move it so if they don’t cancel & you’d rather not travel, you could move it then


Yes, I agree that waiting at least 14 days prior is the best plan!


----------



## DisneyWishes14

I just got a pleasant surprise from ABD!  My July SoCal/DL deposit was put into displacement status on my PIF date in April and, at that point, I had until December 31, 2020 to use that deposit toward another trip.  I got an e-mail today extending that usage date to March 31, 2021!  I thought that was a nice gesture!  I'm so glad I have a little extra time to figure out how to use the deposit.


----------



## lovetotravel

DisneyWishes14 said:


> I just got a pleasant surprise from ABD!  My July SoCal/DL deposit was put into displacement status on my PIF date in April and, at that point, I had until December 31, 2020 to use that deposit toward another trip.  I got an e-mail today extending that usage date to March 31, 2021!  I thought that was a nice gesture!  I'm so glad I have a little extra time to figure out how to use the deposit.


Yay another great news about ABD today!


----------



## CaliKris

Mathmagicland said:


> I believe this is correct because you’d have the same reservation number & thus the new adventure would technically not be “new”.  That’s what happened to me when I moved a reservation last year - no EBD on the changed itinerary even though one was available at the time.
> 
> I’m holding out for them to cancel, as you note we have until 14 days prior to move it so if they don’t cancel & you’d rather not travel, you could move it then


We have an Egypt ABD coming up in September that we are thinking will most likely get cancelled, but if it doesn't you are saying that we have up to 14 days before departure to cancel ourselves?  Where do you see this?  I must be missing something.


----------



## scottmel

CaliKris said:


> We have an Egypt ABD coming up in September that we are thinking will most likely get cancelled, but if it doesn't you are saying that we have up to 14 days before departure to cancel ourselves?  Where do you see this?  I must be missing something.


right now it applies only to trips thru end of august


----------



## CaliKris

scottmel said:


> right now it applies only to trips thru end of august


Yes, it does.  I am assuming the September trips will be offered something similar next month so I am trying to understand what is being offered for the August trips.  When I look at the ABD website, I see that there is the option for August trips to reschedule.  I didn't see anything about being able to cancel up to 14 days before departure.


----------



## CaliKris

Sorry, edited because my response was posted twice.


----------



## scottmel

CaliKris said:


> Yes, it does.  I am assuming the September trips will be offered something similar next month so I am trying to understand what is being offered for the August trips.  When I look at the ABD website, I see that there is the option for August trips to reschedule.  I didn't see anything about being able to cancel up to 14 daybefore departure.


The email I received stated the 14 days. Now a trusted travel agent just told me they will give airfare credit too if u purchased thru them


----------



## Mathmagicland

CaliKris said:


> Yes, it does.  I am assuming the September trips will be offered something similar next month so I am trying to understand what is being offered for the August trips.  When I look at the ABD website, I see that there is the option for August trips to reschedule.  I didn't see anything about being able to cancel up to 14 days before departure.


Here’s the wording in the email I received today for my August AbD departure - mine happens to be a River Cruise — 

Our records indicate you are booked on an _Adventures by Disney_ vacation scheduled to depart during August 2020. _Adventures by Disney_ is closely monitoring global developments and following the advice of public health authorities and medical experts. We are also closely tracking guidance from the destinations we visit regarding who they will allow into their countries based on travel history. 

With this in mind, we are offering a temporary adjustment to our Adventure Vacation Date Change Policy to provide more flexibility for our guests. Guests currently booked on Adventures through August 31, 2020, can change their reservation and receive a 100% credit to be used toward a future Adventure. Guests may select an alternate Adventure or place their booking on a future hold date by calling a Vacationista at 1-855-223-0025 or 407-566-8345. Guests will have until March 31, 2021 to select a new travel date. This future travel credit is non-refundable and standard prevailing rates will apply.

We ask that guests traveling through August 31, 2020, contact _Adventures by Disney_ at least 14 days prior to their Adventure start date to request a change.


----------



## CaliKris

Mathmagicland said:


> Here’s the wording in the email I received today for my August AbD departure - mine happens to be a River Cruise —
> 
> Our records indicate you are booked on an _Adventures by Disney_ vacation scheduled to depart during August 2020. _Adventures by Disney_ is closely monitoring global developments and following the advice of public health authorities and medical experts. We are also closely tracking guidance from the destinations we visit regarding who they will allow into their countries based on travel history.
> 
> With this in mind, we are offering a temporary adjustment to our Adventure Vacation Date Change Policy to provide more flexibility for our guests. Guests currently booked on Adventures through August 31, 2020, can change their reservation and receive a 100% credit to be used toward a future Adventure. Guests may select an alternate Adventure or place their booking on a future hold date by calling a Vacationista at 1-855-223-0025 or 407-566-8345. Guests will have until March 31, 2021 to select a new travel date. This future travel credit is non-refundable and standard prevailing rates will apply.
> 
> We ask that guests traveling through August 31, 2020, contact _Adventures by Disney_ at least 14 days prior to their Adventure start date to request a change.


Thank you for posting this!  It helps me plan for what we will do should the same offer be given to September departures next month.


----------



## lpm23

I think they do this when they are planning to cancel them soon. This way they can keep your money. Best bet Is to wait to see if they will cancel and you can get your money back. No point in having them hold your cash for so long.
For what it’s worth Tauck just cancelled all of August today. So if history repeats itself I think Disney will cancel in another week or so.


----------



## Mathmagicland

lpm23 said:


> I think they do this when they are planning to cancel them soon. This way they can keep your money. Best bet Is to wait to see if they will cancel and you can get your money back. No point in having them hold your cash for so long.
> For what it’s worth Tauck just cancelled all of August today. So if history repeats itself I think Disney will cancel in another week or so.


Thanks for this insight - I’m hoping that is the case here as I don’t see things opening up enough for the August trip to happen, and don’t really want to move the trip again.  Nothing else I can commit to now with so many things pending on other non-AbD travel.


----------



## Mathmagicland

One more thought - from previous posts, the one thing that seems to be different with the August departures is the ability to move or park the reservation up to 14 days prior to departure.  Makes me wonder if they are taking smaller steps, as some countries are starting to relax travel restrictions, to see if the trips might be able to happen after all.  Thus, could it take them longer to actually cancel those August departures?  Of course any arrival or transition airport quarantines would also have to be lifted for folks to be able to get to their adventures.


----------



## Mathmagicland

One last observation - while not an AbD trip, D23 removed their Maeceline Disney Hometown Museum trip from the D23 website today   It had been originally scheduled for this past weekend and rescheduled for September 5.   And that’s domestic travel only, to Missouri.


----------



## scottmel

lpm23 said:


> I think they do this when they are planning to cancel them soon. This way they can keep your money. Best bet Is to wait to see if they will cancel and you can get your money back. No point in having them hold your cash for so long.
> For what it’s worth Tauck just cancelled all of August today. So if history repeats itself I think Disney will cancel in another week or so.


Thanks for that! I bet they follow the TAuck schedule and as you said released this option today before pulling the plug. Thank for letting us know.


----------



## scottmel

lpm23 said:


> I think they do this when they are planning to cancel them soon. This way they can keep your money. Best bet Is to wait to see if they will cancel and you can get your money back. No point in having them hold your cash for so long.
> For what it’s worth Tauck just cancelled all of August today. So if history repeats itself I think Disney will cancel in another week or so.


Can u share where u saw tauck with August cancel I can only find July


----------



## KLondon

We just got the same ABD email for our Aug 28 Greece trip. Given the 14-day window, there's lots of time to see if the trip is outright canceled, so I think we will just wait for now. Worst case is that we would end up taking the new offer and apply the credit to a trip in 2021 - so not a terrible deal either way. That said, I still prefer they cancel and then I can have some more flexibility in how/where/when to use the refund for future travel.


----------



## lpm23

scottmel said:


> Can u share where u saw tauck with August cancel I can only find July


I had a Tauck trip scheduled and I called to check on it. They said they just made the decision yesterday morning.  I also had a July trip cancelled with them and it took about a week before they posted on website.


----------



## disdel

CaliKris said:


> Thank you for posting this!  It helps me plan for what we will do should the same offer be given to September departures next month.


Ditto


----------



## chuff88

KLondon said:


> We just got the same ABD email for our Aug 28 Greece trip. Given the 14-day window, there's lots of time to see if the trip is outright canceled, so I think we will just wait for now. Worst case is that we would end up taking the new offer and apply the credit to a trip in 2021 - so not a terrible deal either way. That said, I still prefer they cancel and then I can have some more flexibility in how/where/when to use the refund for future travel.


That’s the trip we would have been on! We decided we wanted to go to New Zealand so we already went ahead and switched, but I’m glad to know that if we hadn’t we would have had more flexibility to wait, even though we would have had to PIF.


----------



## KLondon

chuff88 said:


> That’s the trip we would have been on!


Well nice to have almost met you!  I noticed that Greece just released their list of countries that will be allowed to fly in starting June 15, and both U.S. and Canada are not on that list. They've said the list may be updated before July 1, but I have to believe that ABD will need to seriously look at cancelling Greece trips for August based on this news.


----------



## disneyholic family

i'm going to have to bite the bullet and cancel our October 25th disneyland ABD (the podcaster trip).
I wish i could get my deposit refunded given that i doubt i'll ever go on an ABD tour (unless the podcasters come up with something else of interest).
Sadly, ABD doesn't refund deposits.

Will i have to pick a specific tour, or are they issuing placeholders?

If i have to pick a specific tour, anyone know what's the cheapest tour they offer? LOL....
seriously.
Also, is the deposit transferable to another person?

.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

disneyholic family said:


> i'm going to have to bite the bullet and cancel our October 25th disneyland ABD (the podcaster trip).
> I wish i could get my deposit refunded given that i doubt i'll ever go on an ABD tour (unless the podcasters come up with something else of interest).
> Sadly, ABD doesn't refund deposits.
> 
> Will i have to pick a specific tour, or are they issuing placeholders?
> 
> If i have to pick a specific tour, anyone know what's the cheapest tour they offer? LOL....
> seriously.
> Also, is the deposit transferable to another person?
> 
> .


Sorry to hear that you have to cancel your ABD, but I completely understand.

ABD will refund the deposit _but_ you have to wait for them to cancel the trip. They have been taking their sweet time doing this and it's usually after PIF, so you'd be paying a game of 'chicken' with them. 

I am not sure if you can transfer the deposit to someone else. With respect to moving the deposit, why not move it to another Backstage Magic trip in late 2021?


----------



## disneyholic family

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> Sorry to hear that you have to cancel your ABD, but I completely understand.
> 
> ABD will refund the deposit _but_ you have to wait for them to cancel the trip. They have been taking their sweet time doing this and it's usually after PIF, so you'd be paying a game of 'chicken' with them.
> 
> I am not sure if you can transfer the deposit to someone else. With respect to moving the deposit, why not move it to another Backstage Magic trip in late 2021?



i doubt they'll cancel. I'm sure DL will be back in business by that time, so there would be no reason for them to cancel.
but we come from overseas, and i'm not comfortable with international travel at this point.
Plus there's a serious issue with international travel insurance right now because of corona, so it would be taking a foolish risk...

i would only do another backstage with the podcasters, not on our own...
the main reason i signed up for that tour was it was being led by Pete, John and Kevin.

i can wait for PIF, but nothing is going to change between now and then...

.


----------



## scottmel

Sorry no you cannot transfer your credit to someone else. In fact on my trip that is a placeholder I wasn't sure my daughter could make it. They wouldn't even let me move her deposit to me. Has to be used by person booked. Insane


----------



## TarotFox

What happens if you PIF, playing "chicken" with ABD, but then they don't cancel? What are your options at that point? Can you still turn a trip into a placeholder after PIF?


----------



## scottmel

TarotFox said:


> What happens if you PIF, playing "chicken" with ABD, but then they don't cancel? What are your options at that point? Can you still turn a trip into a placeholder after PIF?


As of now for August trips yes. Move to future date airfare and all


----------



## Spencer Wright

disneyholic family said:


> i'm going to have to bite the bullet and cancel our October 25th disneyland ABD (the podcaster trip).
> I wish i could get my deposit refunded given that i doubt i'll ever go on an ABD tour (unless the podcasters come up with something else of interest).
> Sadly, ABD doesn't refund deposits.
> 
> Will i have to pick a specific tour, or are they issuing placeholders?
> 
> If i have to pick a specific tour, anyone know what's the cheapest tour they offer? LOL....
> seriously.
> Also, is the deposit transferable to another person?
> 
> .



I am just curious as I have the same trip November 8th... are you canceling ahead of time assuming it will be canceled?


----------



## TarotFox

TarotFox said:


> But if you PIF, do you lose the chance of changing it into a placeholder? I'm more worried about the trip NOT being canceled.





scottmel said:


> As of now for August trips yes. Move to future date airfare and all


But for trips past August?


----------



## scottmel

TarotFox said:


> But for trips past August?


No option as of yet. You just have to wait it out. If you paid in full and want to move the trip you lose it all


----------



## disneyholic family

Spencer Wright said:


> I am just curious as I have the same trip November 8th... are you canceling ahead of time assuming it will be canceled?



no, i don't think it will cancel.
And if i lived in the US, i wouldn't cancel.
But we don't live in the US and i think international travel will be an iffy proposition until there's a vaccine, which i suspect will only come online in 2021.
And it's not that i'm particularly worried about catching it, but international travel insurance policies now have very specific corona related caveats, making travel even more of a financial risk.
Given the high cost of medical care in the US, it's a risk i'm not willing to bear. 
.


----------



## Theta

disneyholic family said:


> no, i don't think it will cancel.
> And if i lived in the US, i wouldn't cancel.
> But we don't live in the US and i think international travel will be an iffy proposition until there's a vaccine, which i suspect will only come online in 2021.
> And it's not that i'm particularly worried about catching it, but international travel insurance policies now have very specific corona related caveats, making travel even more of a financial risk.
> Given the high cost of medical care in the US, it's a risk i'm not willing to bear.
> .




Where are you coming from overseas?  Are you allowed to come into the US now?  I don't even know who they are allowing in and who are not.


----------



## disneyholic family

Theta said:


> Where are you coming from overseas?  Are you allowed to come into the US now?  I don't even know who they are allowing in and who are not.


I'm an american (born in the USA), so yes, i can enter the US.
Actually, even if i weren't an American, i'd be able to enter the US as the country where i live (Israel) isn't on the forbidden list.

The current forbidden countries (according to the CDC- that's where the list is located) are the UK, Ireland, all the Schengen countries, Iran, China, Brazil
If you've been in any of the above during the past 14 days, you can't enter US if you're not an American.
I've linked the CDC page below.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/from-other-countries.html
.


----------



## Woodview

disneyholic family said:


> I'm an american (born in the USA), so yes, i can enter the US.
> Actually, even if i weren't an American, i'd be able to enter the US as the country where i live (Israel) isn't on the forbidden list.
> 
> The current forbidden countries (according to the CDC- that's where the list is located) are the UK, Ireland, all the Schengen countries, Iran, China, Brazil
> If you've been in any of the above during the past 14 days, you can't enter US if you're not an American.
> I've linked the CDC page below.
> 
> https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/from-other-countries.html
> .




  Thank you  disneyholic   for posting   the up to date   ( May 28th )  list.

 Very good info    for European   people .


----------



## disneyholic family

Woodview said:


> Thank you  disneyholic   for posting   the up to date   ( May 28th )  list.
> 
> Very good info    for European   people .



.
From the point of view of this thread, it's more important to know the travel restrictions on Americans.
kayak.com has a comprehensive list of travel restrictions by country where you can determine whether Americans are permitted to enter a country or not.
So for example, Americans cannot enter almost all European countries, which would definitely put a crimp on ABD tours to those destinations.
Americans can enter Ireland and the UK, but have to quarantine for 14 days. Also a problem for ABD.
.


----------



## aggiedog

I'm living on the edge and trying to go to Iceland in August.  They open for tourists June 15.  The government has said there will be some sort of testing protocol but has been fuzzy on any real details.

It's a tour with Classic Journeys, followed by a DIY week with a friend.  Downside is PIF is June 10, but if Iceland shuts down again, the money is transferable for life (need to get that in writing.)  I've been trying to make only fully cancelable and refundable plans.


----------



## DCPhotoGal

aggiedog said:


> I'm living on the edge and trying to go to Iceland in August.  They open for tourists June 15.  The government has said there will be some sort of testing protocol but has been fuzzy on any real details.
> 
> It's a tour with Classic Journeys, followed by a DIY week with a friend.  Downside is PIF is June 10, but if Iceland shuts down again, the money is transferable for life (need to get that in writing.)  I've been trying to make only fully cancelable and refundable plans.


My July Iceland ABD was cancelled, but I haven't canceled my airline tickets yet because I have a crazy idea that we might still go on our own, depending on how things are looking.  Here's the info on arrivals: https://www.icelandair.com/blog/iceland-eases-travel-restrictions/


----------



## sayhello

DCPhotoGal said:


> My July Iceland ABD was cancelled, but I haven't canceled my airline tickets yet because I have a crazy idea that we might still go on our own, depending on how things are looking.  Here's the info on arrivals: https://www.icelandair.com/blog/iceland-eases-travel-restrictions/


It will be interesting to see how hard/easy it would be to get hotel reservations/car rentals/day tours on such short notice.  Normally that would be a huge challenge, but in these times, who knows?

"*Arrival from June 15*

According to the Government decision announced on June 5, passengers arriving in Iceland from June 15 can choose one of the following options:

be tested for COVID-19
go into 14-day quarantine
*The test is free of charge until July 1, and will cost 15,000 ISK from July 1. *Children born 2005 or later will be exempt from the test."

That's currently $113.67 per person.  I guess not the worst thing in the grand scheme of things.

Here's some more info about tourists in Iceland:

https://www.covid.is/sub-categories/tourists

Sayhello


----------



## aggiedog

Yup, I've been following all that on the TA forums.  It has been VERY easy to find lodging, etc.  In fact, there are several places I'd love to book but it's a 50% cancellation fee on those, and I'm just not sure if it's all going to work out or if Iceland will change rules/shut down again.  I'm sticking with fully cancellable for now. Normally, it would be impossible to plan a trip this close to departure.

I'm also hesitant to book flights.  IcelandAir has been canceling flights still.  I may actually wait until beginning of July.  Sooo unusual for me!


----------



## lovetotravel

@sayhello This is my reply from a post in the Egypt thread that belongs here....

This new rule in Cambodia certainly impacts the SE Asia ABD.  Wonder how ABD will proceed since I doubt they will shell out $3000 per adventurer!

*Cambodia Entry Requirements

On June 10, *authorities announced a requirement that all foreign travelers entering Cambodia pay a deposit of $3,000 upon arrival at airports for mandatory COVID-19 testing and potential treatment services.  *On June 8, *authorities released a fee schedule for these testing and treatment services. Travelers should be prepared to see this deposit applied to a minimum of $165 for mandatory COVID-19 testing, approximately $1,281 more to support quarantine in the event one or more passengers on their flight test positive, and a minimum of approximately $3,255 more for treatment and quarantine if the traveler tests positive. The Embassy recommends all travelers be prepared upon entry into Cambodia to pay for the full costs identified in the fee schedule.

https://www.khmertimeskh.com/50732611/foreigners-to-be-charged-for-c-19-quarantine-tests/


----------



## sayhello

OK, besides the cost, this is the part I find most concerning!

_*approximately $1,281 more to support quarantine in the event one or more passengers on their flight test positive *_

It sure sounds like they are planning on quarantining the entire flight if anyone on the flight tests positive!  And making *you* pay for it!  

Sayhello


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

I want to add to my thoughts on Quark Expeditions. They are an unethical company that no traveler should ever consider booking with.

After COVID-19 they changed their terms and conditions to exclude pandemics and are trying to say that they retroactively apply to customers who booked prior to the change (they don't). They told me as recently as early April that they would refund my money if they cancelled our June 6th cruise (which is inline with their t&cs when I booked the cruise). However since they cancelled the cruise in late April they have refused to return any of my phone calls and e-mails requesting a refund. So I filed a dispute with AmEx to get my money back (I do not want a travel voucher for a future cruise). Late last week they sent AmEx a clause from Section 9, _Itinerary_, which applies to cruises already in progress, or that have travelers have gotten themselves to the port for, that need to be cancelled due to _force majeure_ (a term which isn't included in the t&cs that I have). Obviously we never made our way to Oslo in June  .

I have had to send AmEx the proper clause that applies to the cancellation, _Section 8_, TRIP CANCELLATION BY QUARK EXPEDITIONS, PRIOR TO ITINERARY START DATE, Quark Expeditions begins planning our land and sea trips many months in advance of departure. Occasionally, we have to make changes both before and after bookings have been confirmed. _Quark reserves the right to cancel or change any service prior to departure. For any affected passengers on any cancelled trip, Quark Expeditions will first offer affected passengers an alternate trip to re-book on. If the affected passenger is not able to participate in
the alternative trip, Quark Expeditions will refund to such passenger any payments made to Quark without further obligation on our part. _Please note that in the event of cancellation, Quark Expeditions will not be responsible for the cost of any additional travel arrangements or any other items not purchased through Quark Expeditions.

I wanted to share with fellow travelers how slimy Quark is. They obviously know they owe me a full refund, but are trying every which way to get out of returning my money. We are talking about just shy of $13,000.00, so not a small sum of money. They have had many negative comments on their Facebook page as well as people who filed with the BBB (which I will also do so consumers can be aware of what kind of company they are); they are trying their best to refuse refunds even though it's written out in their terms and conditions. Avoid Quark Expeditions at all costs. I get that this situation has had a negative impact on their financials, but they are bound by the terms and conditions in effect when I booked my cruise on October 9th.


----------



## lovetotravel

sayhello said:


> OK, besides the cost, this is the part I find most concerning!
> 
> _*approximately $1,281 more to support quarantine in the event one or more passengers on their flight test positive *_
> 
> It sure sounds like they are planning on quarantining the entire flight if anyone on the flight tests positive!  And making *you* pay for it!
> 
> Sayhello


I was thinking the same thing!! I have no idea how ABD can proceed with this trip until this restriction is removed. It is a new way to travel post COVID.


----------



## sayhello

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I want to add to my thoughts on Quark Expeditions. They are an unethical company that no traveler should ever consider booking with.
> 
> After COVID-19 they changed their terms and conditions to exclude pandemics and are trying to say that they retroactively apply to customers who booked prior to the change (they don't). They told me as recently as early April that they would refund my money if they cancelled our June 6th cruise (which is inline with their t&cs when I booked the cruise). However since they cancelled the cruise in late April they have refused to return any of my phone calls and e-mails requesting a refund. So I filed a dispute with AmEx to get my money back (I do not want a travel voucher for a future cruise). Late last week they sent AmEx a clause from Section 9, _Itinerary_, which applies to cruises already in progress, or that have travelers have gotten themselves to the port for, that need to be cancelled due to _force majeure_ (a term which isn't included in the t&cs that I have). Obviously we never made our way to Oslo in June  .
> 
> I have had to send AmEx the proper clause that applies to the cancellation, _Section 8_, TRIP CANCELLATION BY QUARK EXPEDITIONS, PRIOR TO ITINERARY START DATE, Quark Expeditions begins planning our land and sea trips many months in advance of departure. Occasionally, we have to make changes both before and after bookings have been confirmed. _Quark reserves the right to cancel or change any service prior to departure. For any affected passengers on any cancelled trip, Quark Expeditions will first offer affected passengers an alternate trip to re-book on. If the affected passenger is not able to participate in
> the alternative trip, Quark Expeditions will refund to such passenger any payments made to Quark without further obligation on our part. _Please note that in the event of cancellation, Quark Expeditions will not be responsible for the cost of any additional travel arrangements or any other items not purchased through Quark Expeditions.
> 
> I wanted to share with fellow travelers how slimy Quark is. They obviously know they owe me a full refund, but are trying every which way to get out of returning my money. We are talking about just shy of $13,000.00, so not a small sum of money. They have had many negative comments on their Facebook page as well as people who filed with the BBB (which I will also do so consumers can be aware of what kind of company they are); they are trying their best to refuse refunds even though it's written out in their terms and conditions. Avoid Quark Expeditions at all costs. I get that this situation has had a negative impact on their financials, but they are bound by the terms and conditions in effect when I booked my cruise on October 9th.


Besides the bad comments with the BBB, I would post on TripAdvisor.  A *LOT* of people use TripAdvisor to research trips, and you want to let folks there know what Quark has been up to, also.

Sayhello


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I want to add to my thoughts on Quark Expeditions. They are an unethical company that no traveler should ever consider booking with.
> 
> After COVID-19 they changed their terms and conditions to exclude pandemics and are trying to say that they retroactively apply to customers who booked prior to the change (they don't). They told me as recently as early April that they would refund my money if they cancelled our June 6th cruise (which is inline with their t&cs when I booked the cruise). However since they cancelled the cruise in late April they have refused to return any of my phone calls and e-mails requesting a refund. So I filed a dispute with AmEx to get my money back (I do not want a travel voucher for a future cruise). Late last week they sent AmEx a clause from Section 9, _Itinerary_, which applies to cruises already in progress, or that have travelers have gotten themselves to the port for, that need to be cancelled due to _force majeure_ (a term which isn't included in the t&cs that I have). Obviously we never made our way to Oslo in June  .
> 
> I have had to send AmEx the proper clause that applies to the cancellation, _Section 8_, TRIP CANCELLATION BY QUARK EXPEDITIONS, PRIOR TO ITINERARY START DATE, Quark Expeditions begins planning our land and sea trips many months in advance of departure. Occasionally, we have to make changes both before and after bookings have been confirmed. _Quark reserves the right to cancel or change any service prior to departure. For any affected passengers on any cancelled trip, Quark Expeditions will first offer affected passengers an alternate trip to re-book on. If the affected passenger is not able to participate in
> the alternative trip, Quark Expeditions will refund to such passenger any payments made to Quark without further obligation on our part. _Please note that in the event of cancellation, Quark Expeditions will not be responsible for the cost of any additional travel arrangements or any other items not purchased through Quark Expeditions.
> 
> I wanted to share with fellow travelers how slimy Quark is. They obviously know they owe me a full refund, but are trying every which way to get out of returning my money. We are talking about just shy of $13,000.00, so not a small sum of money. They have had many negative comments on their Facebook page as well as people who filed with the BBB (which I will also do so consumers can be aware of what kind of company they are); they are trying their best to refuse refunds even though it's written out in their terms and conditions. Avoid Quark Expeditions at all costs. I get that this situation has had a negative impact on their financials, but they are bound by the terms and conditions in effect when I booked my cruise on October 9th.


That is horrible! I hope Amex comes through for you. Don’t forget social media too.


----------



## chuff88

sayhello said:


> OK, besides the cost, this is the part I find most concerning!
> 
> _*approximately $1,281 more to support quarantine in the event one or more passengers on their flight test positive *_
> 
> It sure sounds like they are planning on quarantining the entire flight if anyone on the flight tests positive!  And making *you* pay for it!
> 
> Sayhello



Part of me wonders if their goal with this is to discourage people from going there without outright banning entry.


----------



## sayhello

chuff88 said:


> Part of me wonders if their goal with this is to discourage people from going there without outright banning entry.


Wouldn't surprise me.  I'd have to *really* need to go to put up with something like that!

Sayhello


----------



## neurosx1983

disneyholic family said:


> .
> From the point of view of this thread, it's more important to know the travel restrictions on Americans.
> kayak.com has a comprehensive list of travel restrictions by country where you can determine whether Americans are permitted to enter a country or not.
> So for example, Americans cannot enter almost all European countries, which would definitely put a crimp on ABD tours to those destinations.
> Americans can enter Ireland and the UK, but have to quarantine for 14 days. Also a problem for ABD.
> .



The Points Guy website has an updated list of all countries' restrictions as well.

Being from NJ, I am also restricted from entering some states like Vermont and Florida!


----------



## disneyholic family

When i finally bite the bullet and cancel my October ABD, i understand that they'll put my $1300 deposit in a placeholder.
When do i have to use the placeholder?
And if for example i have to use it within 12 months, does that mean i have to book within 12 months or the tour has to take place within 12 months.
I'm hoping it's actually longer than 12 months, but i just used that as an example.

Thanks!


----------



## lovetotravel

disneyholic family said:


> When i finally bite the bullet and cancel my October ABD, i understand that they'll put my $1300 deposit in a placeholder.
> When do i have to use the placeholder?
> And if for example i have to use it within 12 months, does that mean i have to book within 12 months or the tour has to take place within 12 months.
> I'm hoping it's actually longer than 12 months, but i just used that as an example.
> 
> Thanks!


I don't know what the official rules are but when we put a trip on placeholder, we had 2 years from the date I originally booked my original adventure to "select" a new adventure. In other words, we only had to book a new trip before the 2 year mark of original booking date.

The official wording on our placeholder email was:
*"Your reservation is successfully being held on a placeholder date. Please remember that you have not actually reserved a specific date, and you must select an Adventure date by XXXXX date in order to keep your reservation.

This reservation must be confirmed on a new Adventure on or before the Book By Date listed above or the reservation will automatically cancel."*

The date provided was 2 years after my original booking date.

​


----------



## disneyholic family

lovetotravel said:


> I don't know what the official rules are but when we put a trip on placeholder, we had 2 years from the date I originally booked my original adventure to "select" a new adventure. In other words, we only had to book a new trip before the 2 year mark of original booking date.
> 
> The official wording on our placeholder email was:
> *"This reservation must be confirmed on a new Adventure on or before the Book By Date listed above or the reservation will automatically cancel."*
> 
> The date provided was 2 years after my booking date.
> 
> ​



that's effectively only 1 year or possibly even less given that this was booked on opening day.
Figures they'd be difficult

.


----------



## lovetotravel

disneyholic family said:


> that's effectively only 1 year or possibly even less given that this was booked on opening day.
> Figures they'd be difficult
> 
> .


I wonder if you could negotiate an expiration date given the circumstances?

I feel your pain. I feel like I've been getting the shaft with cancellations with all my previous super early booking habits. Now I want to book last minute!


----------



## disneyholic family

and one more question - are deposits transferable?
i think it's highly doubtful i'll ever do ABD.
Is ABD just going to be $1300 richer, or can i gift the deposit to one of my kids?
.


----------



## wendygator

Due to COVID, we had to change our Disneyland Backstage Magic tour from November to December 2020. Our son earned an internship working post-production on a tv show, and they had to push back production in order to keep everyone safe. We booked the tour and insurance and filed a claim of job change. We were disappointed that ABD wouldn't allow us to simply move our deposit to a later date, but did receive 75% of our deposit back in the form of vouchers. While this is great, the rule is the future credit must be used on a trip that departs on or before May 2021. Would love to use the vouchers toward PIF in August for the December 2020 Backstage Magic, but don't know if it will go. I don't think @disneyholicfamily that deposits are transferable, as we were unable to move ours a month later.  Any advice anyone could give would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!


----------



## Mathmagicland

wendygator said:


> Due to COVID, we had to change our Disneyland Backstage Magic tour from November to December 2020. Our son earned an internship working post-production on a tv show, and they had to push back production in order to keep everyone safe. We booked the tour and insurance and filed a claim of job change. We were disappointed that ABD wouldn't allow us to simply move our deposit to a later date, but did receive 75% of our deposit back in the form of vouchers. While this is great, the rule is the future credit must be used on a trip that departs on or before May 2021. Would love to use the vouchers toward PIF in August for the December 2020 Backstage Magic, but don't know if it will go. I don't think @disneyholicfamily that deposits are transferable, as we were unable to move ours a month later.  Any advice anyone could give would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!


I think I’m missing something here, as I’ve moved a deposit before without any problem. It was from one AbD to another, rather than moving from one departure date to another for the same AbD.  Is that the difference?  I was told I could only move it once, and kept the same original AbD booking number.  Or did you book the December date as new & then file claim to cancel November to get the deposit back?    

I’m guessing that since Disney has not yet done anything with later in the year departures, you’re under their usual policies rather than any Covid-related exceptions for the March through July adventures.


----------



## Skylarr29

wendygator said:


> Due to COVID, we had to change our Disneyland Backstage Magic tour from November to December 2020. Our son earned an internship working post-production on a tv show, and they had to push back production in order to keep everyone safe. We booked the tour and insurance and filed a claim of job change. We were disappointed that ABD wouldn't allow us to simply move our deposit to a later date, but did receive 75% of our deposit back in the form of vouchers. While this is great, the rule is the future credit must be used on a trip that departs on or before May 2021. Would love to use the vouchers toward PIF in August for the December 2020 Backstage Magic, but don't know if it will go. I don't think @disneyholicfamily that deposits are transferable, as we were unable to move ours a month later.  Any advice anyone could give would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!



You can always move a deposit one time so not sure what happened here... you can not however take advantage of any discounts when moving it.

I’ve had to move two trips this year.


----------



## scottmel

August trips just cancelled


----------



## wendygator

We were told if we moved our deposit to the same ABD trip one month later, we would lose our deposit. Kevin told us we could file with the insurance company and try to get a voucher for the amount of the deposit. After we filed our claim, the insurance company and ABD sent us vouchers equal to 75% of our deposit. I also thought it strange that we were unable to move it. I guess I'll send an email to Kevin and try to figure out what happened. Thanks for the feedback.


----------



## NitroStitch

scottmel said:


> August trips just cancelled


I wondered how long it would take.


----------



## disneyholic family

wendygator said:


> We were told if we moved our deposit to the same ABD trip one month later, we would lose our deposit. Kevin told us we could file with the insurance company and try to get a voucher for the amount of the deposit. After we filed our claim, the insurance company and ABD sent us vouchers equal to 75% of our deposit. I also thought it strange that we were unable to move it. I guess I'll send an email to Kevin and try to figure out what happened. Thanks for the feedback.


that is so strange......so many people in this thread have reported being able to move the deposit to another trip....
i just don't get it...
I'm so sorry i ever booked an ABD trip.  
I was a bit worried about the deposit being non-refundable but i've never had to cancel a trip in my life, so i figured the odds were close to zero.
Who could have predicted covid 19??

Really distressing and i have to say this leaves me with a very bad taste in my mouth about Disney.
And here i am, a DVC owner, so i am in fact a disneyholic, but ABD doesn't seem very pixie dust like in my eyes anyway.


----------



## scottmel

NitroStitch said:


> I wondered how long it would take.


Honestly it was quicker than I thought! the 20th seemed to be the magic day. I would have been disappointed except things we were doing PRIOR to the trip on our own are cancelled so I wasn't getting a good feeling...Works out better for ne this summer though. I plan to book it AGAIN but wait a week and be under the 120 PIF promise for next year.


----------



## scottmel

disneyholic family said:


> that is so strange......so many people in this thread have reported being able to move the deposit to another trip....
> i just don't get it...
> I'm so sorry i ever booked an ABD trip.
> I was a bit worried about the deposit being non-refundable but i've never had to cancel a trip in my life, so i figured the odds were close to zero.
> Who could have predicted covid 19??
> 
> Really distressing and i have to say this leaves me with a very bad taste in my mouth about Disney.
> And here i am, a DVC owner, so i am in fact a disneyholic, but ABD doesn't seem very pixie dust like in my eyes anyway.


 ABD miserable to deal with. Once you hit the ground with the guides it is GREAT. I always so the GETTING there is tough. policies, personnel, honestly in a way the trip I just was cancelled out of was a placeholder and I never thought I would see a refund in this lifetime on the placeholder amount. It is making me think twice about rebooking so quick. The 120 PIL cancel is the only reason I am even CONSIDERING IT!


----------



## AquaDame

Its not just ABD... I've lost about $1400 to rented DVC points as well. No way it will be safe to travel in October, even if they insist half opening up their parks during this. I also thought there was no way I'd ever cancel, but also never imagined something like covid happening. Lesson learned!


----------



## OKW Lover

scottmel said:


> August trips just cancelled


I'm loosing hope for my September ABD


----------



## wendygator

Just heard back from Kevin. Evidently, when you book insurance along with your deposit, that locks in the date. Lesson learned. Thanks for all the help!


----------



## AquaDame

wendygator said:


> Just heard back from Kevin. Evidently, when you book insurance along with your deposit, that locks in the date. Lesson learned. Thanks for all the help!



That is really good to know... seems nuts but maybe it has to do with the legal portions of the insurance and not being able to transfer that portion? Though Im pretty sure people have been able to move their trips and keep insurance with third party options... weird.


----------



## scottmel

AquaDame said:


> Its not just ABD... I've lost about $1400 to rented DVC points as well. No way it will be safe to travel in October, even if they insist half opening up their parks during this. I also thought there was no way I'd ever cancel, but also never imagined something like covid happening. Lesson learned!


Aw I am sorry! We were on rented DVC points, have since become a member, when WDW closed due to COVID. We were actually leaving the day the park was officially closed. I have to say though I was so impressed with how clean disney is, I never felt worried or in danger and this was back when no one had a mask and it was life as usual. If you are hesitant to go to the parks, would you consider resort only stay?  I would go back tomorrow if I could!


----------



## scottmel

I just hung up with ABD. Super easy process to cancel. The only hiccup was the placeholder from 4 years ago the credit card is unknown. She indicated it will take 2 plus months to determine. It was only 400 bucks so I moved that to my Italy trip next summer. If I have to cancel that then I will research the missing 400. All else easy though. I am disappointed it cancelled bur relieved just to know the fate and I can move on with other plans


----------



## NitroStitch

AquaDame said:


> Its not just ABD... I've lost about $1400 to rented DVC points as well. No way it will be safe to travel in October, even if they insist half opening up their parks during this. I also thought there was no way I'd ever cancel, but also never imagined something like covid happening. Lesson learned!


We are learning the same lesson. Even if we would never cancel a trip, something unthinkable could happen.


----------



## AquaDame

scottmel said:


> Aw I am sorry! We were on rented DVC points, have since become a member, when WDW closed due to COVID. We were actually leaving the day the park was officially closed. I have to say though I was so impressed with how clean disney is, I never felt worried or in danger and this was back when no one had a mask and it was life as usual. If you are hesitant to go to the parks, would you consider resort only stay?  I would go back tomorrow if I could!



If we could drive I might be tempted but we'd need to fly as well, from Oregon. If I took the risk flying and staying at a resort I may as well go into the parks IMO! 

Our case numbers are so low compared to Florida it just doesn't make sense to take the risk... I know that could change but so far our governor has been on the cautious side comparatively. I was still going to work like nothing was wrong until that same week in March and wasn't worried at all FWIW. We were on a cruise and at WDW at the end of January when Hong Kong and Shanghai closed - I agree Disney is clean and safe, but it's more about what the guests do than Disney.


----------



## Mathmagicland

wendygator said:


> Just heard back from Kevin. Evidently, when you book insurance along with your deposit, that locks in the date. Lesson learned. Thanks for all the help!


This is still puzzling to me.  I was booked with AbD insurance on a September 2020 Seine River Cruise and was able to move it, along with moving the insurance, to a Rhine River Cruise for August of 2020,..This was all done in August of 2019.  The original River Cruise had been booked on opening day in February or March of 2019. 

Maybe things have changes since I did that...??

edit to add - I book direct with AbD myself, I do not use a travel agent. Not sure if that is a factor...


----------



## Happy99

Mathmagicland said:


> edit to add - I book direct with AbD myself, I do not use a travel agent. Not sure if that is a factor...



Doesn't matter how it was booked.


----------



## chuff88

AquaDame said:


> If we could drive I might be tempted but we'd need to fly as well, from Oregon. If I took the risk flying and staying at a resort I may as well go into the parks IMO!
> 
> Our case numbers are so low compared to Florida it just doesn't make sense to take the risk... I know that could change but so far our governor has been on the cautious side comparatively. I was still going to work like nothing was wrong until that same week in March and wasn't worried at all FWIW. We were on a cruise and at WDW at the end of January when Hong Kong and Shanghai closed - I agree Disney is clean and safe, but it's more about what the guests do than Disney.


Going a little off topic, but where in Oregon are you from? We're in Oregon also and we're been so lucky to have such minimal impact from the pandemic, and I feel like people here are being very considerate in public places (wearing masks and respecting social distancing, etc.).


----------



## disneyholic family

wendygator said:


> Just heard back from Kevin. Evidently, when you book insurance along with your deposit, that locks in the date. Lesson learned. Thanks for all the help!



so i guess i'm screwed then since i did take their (very expensive) insurance.
Stupid me yet again.
Should never have booked the ABD to begin with.  And now the insurance is adding insult to injury.
the more i read about ABD on these threads, the more they seem like scam artists.
Note to me, read and believe the fine print.  And consider all the possibilities, even something as unexpected as coronavirus and that ABD won't give a flying you know what about the extenuating circumstances. 
I have to say, my annoyance is spilling over on my feelings towards disney in general. Perhaps i should change my handle.  

.


----------



## Magnum_PI

Alongside the August 2020 cancellations, Sept 2020 trips can now move to a new date with no penalty.  We've taken advantage of that (and not a moment to lose, as PIF was today) and move our trip to Feb 2022.


----------



## disneyholic family

Magnum_PI said:


> Alongside the August 2020 cancellations, Sept 2020 trips can now move to a new date with no penalty.  We've taken advantage of that (and not a moment to lose, as PIF was today) and move our trip to Feb 2022.


according to others who've posted, if you bought ABD insurance, you can't move your trip.
Did you have ABD insurance?
.


----------



## Magnum_PI

disneyholic family said:


> according to others who've posted, if you bought ABD insurance, you can't move your trip.
> Did you have ABD insurance?
> .



This is somewhat complicated.  The direct answer is "yes", but when I first inquired about a date change a couple of months ago, I learned that although we had PAID for the ABD insurance, the rep didn't actually.... apply those funds to the insurance and execute the policy.  At the time, this annoyed me because the reason we paid for it early was to qualify for a pre-existing condition waiver (which you can only get by buying the insurance within 14 days of the deposit).  Now we don't have that waiver.  But it _did_ enable us to change our dates.  You're reminding me that I need to call them and find out if the insurance policy has actually been PURCHASED for this new trip or if the money is just moved around...

Still, given what is on their website right now re: the policy update for September trips, they may be allowing it regardless of insurance.  "Guests currently booked on adventures through September 30, 2020 can change their reservation and receive a 100% credit to be used toward a future adventure. Guests may select a new travel date and/or an alternate adventure by March 31, 2021 by calling (855) 223-0025 or (407) 566-8345. The credit is non-refundable and standard prevailing rates will apply."

Edit to add: We didn't move the date before today because it wasn't just the deposit money we had down.  We had also bought airfare through ABD that they wouldn't let us move without losing.  With the new policy update from yesterday, we were able to move the airfare money too.


----------



## disneyholic family

Magnum_PI said:


> This is somewhat complicated.  The direct answer is "yes", but when I first inquired about a date change a couple of months ago, I learned that although we had PAID for the ABD insurance, the rep didn't actually.... apply those funds to the insurance and execute the policy.  At the time, this annoyed me because the reason we paid for it early was to qualify for a pre-existing condition waiver (which you can only get by buying the insurance within 14 days of the deposit).  Now we don't have that waiver.  But it _did_ enable us to change our dates.  You're reminding me that I need to call them and find out if the insurance policy has actually been PURCHASED for this new trip or if the money is just moved around...
> 
> Still, given what is on their website right now re: the policy update for September trips, they may be allowing it regardless of insurance.  "Guests currently booked on adventures through September 30, 2020 can change their reservation and receive a 100% credit to be used toward a future adventure. Guests may select a new travel date and/or an alternate adventure by March 31, 2021 by calling (855) 223-0025 or (407) 566-8345. The credit is non-refundable and standard prevailing rates will apply."



our trip is october 25th, so it doesn't fall under this.
I could wait until the PIF and see if they cancel, but i don't know why they would cancel the disneyland trip in october.

.


----------



## Magnum_PI

disneyholic family said:


> our trip is october 25th, so it doesn't fall under this.
> I could wait until the PIF and see if they cancel, but i don't know why they would cancel the disneyland trip in october.
> 
> .



Sorry if I'm missing something you already posted about, but have you already requested a date change?  It's possible that what happened to me may have also happened to you - maybe they applied the "insurance" payment to the trip in general and didn't actually underwrite a policy at that time?

So PIF is sometime late next month for you, right?  It's possible that by then, Oct 2020 trips may be allowed to rebook as well.  I suspect another round of cancellations for Sept are incoming.


----------



## Mathmagicland

I called today to cancel my August Trip, did not want to move the money or keep a placeholder as I’d already moved it once plus I’ve already booked two more for 2021 and do not want to book anything else until things settle down a lot more.  They are refunding both the adventure costs plus the insurance costs.   Rep said refunds are currently taking just over 30 days to be processed.


----------



## disneyholic family

Magnum_PI said:


> Sorry if I'm missing something you already posted about, but have you already requested a date change?  It's possible that what happened to me may have also happened to you - maybe they applied the "insurance" payment to the trip in general and didn't actually underwrite a policy at that time?
> 
> So PIF is sometime late next month for you, right?  It's possible that by then, Oct 2020 trips may be allowed to rebook as well.  I suspect another round of cancellations for Sept are incoming.



you're probably right that i should wait for PIF to cancel, but i've already canceled every other part of this trip.
So it's just stupid ABD nonsense that would cause me to wait.


----------



## MiddKid

Maybe it’s just because this was going to be our first AbD, but no complaints here. In fact, as of this morning, I’ve now gotten full refunds on every aspect of our trip we had planned.  3 week trip to London, Norway (AbD), and France. 

I booked our AbD last year when the early booking window opened. Got the early booking discounts for our family of 5. Did not buy insurance. In general, in life, I don’t believe in extended warranties and/or travel insurance. I figure in the one scenario I get hit with a charge, the many times I’ve declined warranties/insurance over the years more than makes up for and funds the cost I’m facing. That’s a whole different topic though. 

Paid full amount in February. I started cancelling other parts of the trip in April. Then, when ABD cancelled in May, I called, got a full refund, and on the same call booked the same trip for next year on the same date getting the early booking discount. Plus, this deposit is fully refundable up until March.  

I know everyone’s situation is different but zero complaints from me.  We faced an unprecedented situation and I got all my money back and was able to book a future trip at significantly less financial risk.  Except for wanting them to cancel earlier, no complaints from me. 

Only advice, wait it out as long as you can. My last flight leg was still scheduled as of yesterday and was 3 weeks away. I had gotten email after email from the airline asking me to convert to credit. I ignored them. Last night they cancelled that final leg and offered me a refund.


----------



## disneyholic family

my deposit ($1300) and insurance have been moved to a placeholder that i need to use within two years of the original booking. 
So i'm guessing that's about half a year from now, since i booked that trip on opening day. 
.


----------



## Mathmagicland

MiddKid said:


> Only advice, wait it out as long as you can. My last flight leg was still scheduled as of yesterday and was 3 weeks away. I had gotten email after email from the airline asking me to convert to credit. I ignored them. Last night they cancelled that final leg and offered me a refund.


This is where I’m at now - my AbD cancelled yesterday, refund in process.  Airline emailed me last week to cancel & get a voucher if my plans had changed.   Looking at their website, they’ve cancelled all flights to my destination through the week before my departure date.  So, I’ll try to wait it out a couple of weeks to see if they do end up cancelling any of the August flights.   Hoping they will cancel but a lot will depend on how much further Europe opens up and to which other countries, and when.  So, the waiting game continues....


----------



## AquaDame

chuff88 said:


> Going a little off topic, but where in Oregon are you from? We're in Oregon also and we're been so lucky to have such minimal impact from the pandemic, and I feel like people here are being very considerate in public places (wearing masks and respecting social distancing, etc.).



We're in Portland - Multnomah county - so we aren't even in phase 1 yet technically..!  People have been pretty 50/50 on masks and distancing I'd say, unless a place requires it in which case people do seem to follow the rules.

@disneyholic family I agree that it doesnt sound likely they'd cancel the October DL ABD but they blanket cancelled the ones through August now and it sounds like September can move... they may surprise you since DL is opening in July and they're still rolling it in with their other trips.


----------



## disneyholic family

AquaDame said:


> We're in Portland - Multnomah county - so we aren't even in phase 1 yet technically..!  People have been pretty 50/50 on masks and distancing I'd say, unless a place requires it in which case people do seem to follow the rules.
> 
> @disneyholic family I agree that it doesnt sound likely they'd cancel the October DL ABD but they blanket cancelled the ones through August now and it sounds like September can move... they may surprise you since DL is opening in July and they're still rolling it in with their other trips.


i've already moved to a placeholder....so even if they cancel, i've already made the move..
i guess i'm not  a very good chicken player..
,


----------



## ambgoph

First time I’ve booked an ABD trip and I’m trying to figure out my options.  We were supposed to do the Disneyland escape starting on October 1, but now have no interest in going.  The trip was booked in February and additional payments were made, but have not PIF.  My understanding is that we can move the deposit and additional money paid to a new trip.  However, we would not be eligible for an early booking discount.  We’re considering a trip in September 2021 that has an early booking discount of $750 per person.  Should we book this new trip and then cancel the existing trip?  I know we would lose the deposit, I assume the additional money paid would be refunded?  Is it possible to have the deposit/addItional money placed on hold until we decide on another trip, without a discount?  Is there anything else to consider?  Thanks for any advice.


----------



## MiddKid

ambgoph said:


> First time I’ve booked an ABD trip and I’m trying to figure out my options.  We were supposed to do the Disneyland escape starting on October 1, but now have no interest in going.  The trip was booked in February and additional payments were made, but have not PIF.  My understanding is that we can move the deposit and additional money paid to a new trip.  However, we would not be eligible for an early booking discount.  We’re considering a trip in September 2021 that has an early booking discount of $750 per person.  Should we book this new trip and then cancel the existing trip?  I know we would lose the deposit, I assume the additional money paid would be refunded?  Is it possible to have the deposit/addItional money placed on hold until we decide on another trip, without a discount?  Is there anything else to consider?  Thanks for any advice.



Two thoughts:
- Regarding booking a new trip, there is absolutely zero risk right now.  Deposits are refundable up until the full payment date so book a new trip and don't worry about it...can get your money back at any time.  Zero risk.

- Then you have your existing DL trip...I'd wait it out.  Yes, it feels like things are starting to open, but there are SO MANY unknowns that may prevent ABD from running your trip.  Heck, they still haven't even given a date that the DL hotel is going to open.  We could have another fall flare-up.  The parks may be open, but an ABD group of 30 may still be a no-no.  So many questions.  With them just now cancelling all August trips, it's not unreasonable for Sept and Oct to be cancelled as well.  

If they do cancel, full refund.  
If they don't cancel, I'd assume you could move those funds to your newly booked trip...but you'd want to check on that.  I'm just assuming.
If they are a stickler and you can't move the funds, just cancel the new trip and move the funds over.  Worst case in the whole thing is that you miss the early booking disocunt.


----------



## Mathmagicland

ambgoph said:


> First time I’ve booked an ABD trip and I’m trying to figure out my options.  We were supposed to do the Disneyland escape starting on October 1, but now have no interest in going.  The trip was booked in February and additional payments were made, but have not PIF.  My understanding is that we can move the deposit and additional money paid to a new trip.  However, we would not be eligible for an early booking discount.  We’re considering a trip in September 2021 that has an early booking discount of $750 per person.  Should we book this new trip and then cancel the existing trip?  I know we would lose the deposit, I assume the additional money paid would be refunded?  Is it possible to have the deposit/addItional money placed on hold until we decide on another trip, without a discount?  Is there anything else to consider?  Thanks for any advice.


You’re correct, if you move your booking to 2021 you will retain all money paid but not be eligible for any early booking discounts as you will retain the same reservation number.  Until AbD cancels it, you are only permitted one move so if it’s already a moved reservation you can’t move it again under the usual rules.   Your reservation would still be under the same policies in effect when the original booking was done, ie no restart of the 14-day (already passed) or current New PIF-day cancel window.  So you might need to weigh the EBD loss vs cancel penalties/loss of what you’ve already paid.

info from AbD in my recent cancellation email - this is what you’d get back and your cancel penalty if you cancel on your own or before AbD cancels / offers exceptions due to the virus.  So check your confirmation email to see what your Cancel terms are.  If these are your terms, you’d already be in the 50% Of package price (not what you’ve paid) cancel penalty window as we are less than 120 days from October  1.  If you also bought insurance, either thru AbD or private carrier, you’d need to check their cancel provisions to see what your Cancel options are.

******************************

CANCELLATION FEES:
Unless stated otherwise in your Guest Confirmation, the following cancellation policy shall apply:

*Days Prior to Vacation Commencement Date         Fee Amount*

120 days or more                                                      Deposit per Guest
119-90 days                                                               50% of vacation package price per Guest
89-46 days                                                                 75% of vacation package price per Guest
45 days or less                                                          100% of vacation package price per Guest

*************************

Since these are unprecedented times, I don’t know what exceptions AbD might be willing to consider at this point since your adventure is not yet cancelled. You could give them a call to ask.

While the EBDs are still available for some of the longer trip 2021 departures, many others no longer have it as they’ve all been taken.   And not to add to the pressure, while the 2021 trip you’re considering still has an EBD today, it may not tomorrow or by the end of the week as people book trips.  

Disney seems to be canceling trips around 45-days in advance from the start of a month - the August cancellations came on June 15 & the July cancels were mid-May. If that pattern follows, it would be around August 15 before the October departures might be considered for cancellations. A lot of time for things to change in the world. 

If you wait it out until then, and it is not cancelled, you could still move it and keep all monies paid.  But if you book a separate new one to get EBD & then the 2020 one does not cancel, you’d have to cancel the new one & move the original one to not be subject to a 75% Or 100% of package price cancellation penalty...depending on when AbD did the cancellation.  You’d need to really be on top of that 45-day window.   You could also watch for September cancellations, which would likely come thru in July - if September does not cancel, it is more likely October would not cancel either.

You also have your PIF date coming up - do you pay the rest of the balance due hoping for an AbD cancellation, or do you move the trip to 2021 & forego the EBD but keep your monies paid and have longer to pay on the new trip.  

Lots of things to consider and different ways to look at it, and different amounts of money involved with each one. 

Good luck with your decision.


----------



## ambgoph

Mathmagicland said:


> You’re correct, if you move your booking to 2021 you will retain all money paid but not be eligible for any early booking discounts as you will retain the same reservation number.  Until AbD cancels it, you are only permitted one move so if it’s already a moved reservation you can’t move it again under the usual rules.   Your reservation would still be under the same policies in effect when the original booking was done, ie no restart of the 14-day (already passed) or current New PIF-day cancel window.  So you might need to weigh the EBD loss vs cancel penalties/loss of what you’ve already paid.
> 
> info from AbD in my recent cancellation email - this is what you’d get back and your cancel penalty if you cancel on your own or before AbD cancels / offers exceptions due to the virus.  So check your confirmation email to see what your Cancel terms are.  If these are your terms, you’d already be in the 50% Of package price (not what you’ve paid) cancel penalty window as we are less than 120 days from October  1.  If you also bought insurance, either thru AbD or private carrier, you’d need to check their cancel provisions to see what your Cancel options are.
> 
> ******************************
> 
> CANCELLATION FEES:
> Unless stated otherwise in your Guest Confirmation, the following cancellation policy shall apply:
> 
> *Days Prior to Vacation Commencement Date         Fee Amount*
> 
> 120 days or more                                                      Deposit per Guest
> 119-90 days                                                               50% of vacation package price per Guest
> 89-46 days                                                                 75% of vacation package price per Guest
> 45 days or less                                                          100% of vacation package price per Guest
> 
> *************************
> 
> Since these are unprecedented times, I don’t know what exceptions AbD might be willing to consider at this point since your adventure is not yet cancelled. You could give them a call to ask.
> 
> While the EBDs are still available for some of the longer trip 2021 departures, many others no longer have it as they’ve all been taken.   And not to add to the pressure, while the 2021 trip you’re considering still has an EBD today, it may not tomorrow or by the end of the week as people book trips.
> 
> Disney seems to be canceling trips around 45-days in advance from the start of a month - the August cancellations came on June 15 & the July cancels were mid-May. If that pattern follows, it would be around August 15 before the October departures might be considered for cancellations. A lot of time for things to change in the world.
> 
> If you wait it out until then, and it is not cancelled, you could still move it and keep all monies paid.  But if you book a separate new one to get EBD & then the 2020 one does not cancel, you’d have to cancel the new one & move the original one to not be subject to a 75% Or 100% of package price cancellation penalty...depending on when AbD did the cancellation.  You’d need to really be on top of that 45-day window.   You could also watch for September cancellations, which would likely come thru in July - if September does not cancel, it is more likely October would not cancel either.
> 
> You also have your PIF date coming up - do you pay the rest of the balance due hoping for an AbD cancellation, or do you move the trip to 2021 & forego the EBD but keep your monies paid and have longer to pay on the new trip.
> 
> Lots of things to consider and different ways to look at it, and different amounts of money involved with each one.
> 
> Good luck with your decision.






MiddKid said:


> Two thoughts:
> - Regarding booking a new trip, there is absolutely zero risk right now.  Deposits are refundable up until the full payment date so book a new trip and don't worry about it...can get your money back at any time.  Zero risk.
> 
> - Then you have your existing DL trip...I'd wait it out.  Yes, it feels like things are starting to open, but there are SO MANY unknowns that may prevent ABD from running your trip.  Heck, they still haven't even given a date that the DL hotel is going to open.  We could have another fall flare-up.  The parks may be open, but an ABD group of 30 may still be a no-no.  So many questions.  With them just now cancelling all August trips, it's not unreasonable for Sept and Oct to be cancelled as well.
> 
> If they do cancel, full refund.
> If they don't cancel, I'd assume you could move those funds to your newly booked trip...but you'd want to check on that.  I'm just assuming.
> If they are a stickler and you can't move the funds, just cancel the new trip and move the funds over.  Worst case in the whole thing is that you miss the early booking disocunt.



Thanks for the replies. Another option we’re considering is another Disneyland Escape, but they don’t have any trips listed past May 2021.  Can we put our existing reservation “on hold” (is there a term to use for this?) until they come out with additional dates and then move the reservation to the new date?


----------



## Spencer Wright

MiddKid said:


> Maybe it’s just because this was going to be our first AbD, but no complaints here. In fact, as of this morning, I’ve now gotten full refunds on every aspect of our trip we had planned.  3 week trip to London, Norway (AbD), and France.
> 
> I booked our AbD last year when the early booking window opened. Got the early booking discounts for our family of 5. Did not buy insurance. In general, in life, I don’t believe in extended warranties and/or travel insurance. I figure in the one scenario I get hit with a charge, the many times I’ve declined warranties/insurance over the years more than makes up for and funds the cost I’m facing. That’s a whole different topic though.
> 
> Paid full amount in February. I started cancelling other parts of the trip in April. Then, when ABD cancelled in May, I called, got a full refund, and on the same call booked the same trip for next year on the same date getting the early booking discount. Plus, this deposit is fully refundable up until March.
> 
> I know everyone’s situation is different but zero complaints from me.  We faced an unprecedented situation and I got all my money back and was able to book a future trip at significantly less financial risk.  Except for wanting them to cancel earlier, no complaints from me.
> 
> Only advice, wait it out as long as you can. My last flight leg was still scheduled as of yesterday and was 3 weeks away. I had gotten email after email from the airline asking me to convert to credit. I ignored them. Last night they cancelled that final leg and offered me a refund.



Ive had the same experience!  So far they’ve been great.  It’s nice to call Disney and have a ten minute hold time be a long time.


----------



## vakamalua

Last month, we cancelled our first ABD, a September '20 adult only Italy/ Switzerland trip, before PIF and put in placeholder.  We just used that deposit to book a next year an adult only So Cal/Disneyland trip for November '21 (half the price) under the same reservation number.
FYI: 
-The rebooked trip is 29 months after ORIGINAL booking

-Because it is not considered a new booking, the entire original deposit will NOT be considered refundable under the limited time rule, including the original amount we paid that is over the deposit amount for the new trip

-They gave us the Early Booking Discount as an exception despite the rule that rebooking on a placeholder is not a new booking and ineligible for EBD. Under the extraordinary circumstances and given we are a 'certain age' I told them I was disinclined to rebook at all and would not unless it was an adult only and sometime in late 2021.  I explained that if we just cancelled, they could keep the $1000 deposit I had paid them for the original trip or if they gave me the EBD, I would take a chance on rebooking.


----------



## chuff88

AquaDame said:


> We're in Portland - Multnomah county - so we aren't even in phase 1 yet technically..!  People have been pretty 50/50 on masks and distancing I'd say, unless a place requires it in which case people do seem to follow the rules.



Interesting, I have a lot of friends in Portland so I've heard some of that from them as well. We're in Eugene, and Lane County is now in phase 2. I've been doing most of the shopping errand running for my family (I live with my parents, who are in their 70s), and I really feel like it's been 80-90% mask wearing. Our numbers in Lane County are still very low, but I'm glad that hasn't made people complacent about being cautious.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

I am confused with how to book a "placeholder" ABD. My TA sent an e-mail as follows:

_As long as I have been doing this deposits were non-refundable/non-transferable 14 days after you booked the Adventure-  you could cancel it or move it within that 14 day window of booking but then it became non-refundable_

This contradicts what I understand about a "placeholder". I am looking to move our October 20, 2020 Egypt ABD as we won't be going and I do not plan on making our PIF next month (if ABD follows their pattern they won't cancel the trip until mid-August and our PIF is next month). The deposit for this trip was moved from our Rhone River cruise (that we booked before the Egypt trip was announced), so I'm not sure if we would be eligible to move it again.

At this point I am thinking that if they don't want to let me move my deposit to another date I will just walk away and be done with them. I think they should be flexible during these uncertain times and not force people to either travel or lose their money.


----------



## sayhello

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I am confused with how to book a "placeholder" ABD. My TA sent an e-mail as follows:
> 
> _As long as I have been doing this deposits were non-refundable/non-transferable 14 days after you booked the Adventure-  you could cancel it or move it within that 14 day window of booking but then it became non-refundable_
> 
> This contradicts what I understand about a "placeholder". I am looking to move our October 20, 2020 Egypt ABD as we won't be going and I do not plan on making our PIF next month (if ABD follows their pattern they won't cancel the trip until mid-August and our PIF is next month). The deposit for this trip was moved from our Rhone River cruise (that we booked before the Egypt trip was announced), so I'm not sure if we would be eligible to move it again.
> 
> At this point I am thinking that if they don't want to let me move my deposit to another date I will just walk away and be done with them. I think they should be flexible during these uncertain times and not force people to either travel or lose their money.


I believe the current policy is that you can only move your deposit once.  But you can definitely do it that once.  It *is* _transferable_ to another trip, but not refundable.

The current "temporary adjustment" to that policy is currently only good through the end of September.

_Guests currently booked on adventures through September 30, 2020 can change their reservation and receive a 100% credit to be used toward a future adventure. Guests may select a new travel date and/or an alternate adventure by March 31, 2021 by calling (855) 223-0025 or (407) 566-8345. The credit is non-refundable and standard prevailing rates will apply. _

Is July your PIF with the new policy? 

_Beginning March 19, 2020, a Final Payment Extension will be automatically added to all reservations for adventures departing through November 30, 2020.
Final payments will be extended out an additional 30 days._

Sayhello


----------



## TarotFox

You should wait, because they'll likely extend that policy into October next month.


----------



## AquaDame

sayhello said:


> I believe the current policy is that you can only move your deposit once.  But you can definitely do it that once.  It *is* _transferable_ to another trip, but not refundable.
> 
> The current "temporary adjustment" to that policy is currently only good through the end of September.
> 
> _Guests currently booked on adventures through September 30, 2020 can change their reservation and receive a 100% credit to be used toward a future adventure. Guests may select a new travel date and/or an alternate adventure by March 31, 2021 by calling (855) 223-0025 or (407) 566-8345. The credit is non-refundable and standard prevailing rates will apply. _
> 
> Is July your PIF with the new policy?
> 
> _Beginning March 19, 2020, a Final Payment Extension will be automatically added to all reservations for adventures departing through November 30, 2020.
> Final payments will be extended out an additional 30 days._
> 
> Sayhello



That end of March date is getting closer... I wonder if they will push it out the longer this goes on. The fact that the park reservations are running through late September 2021 isn't filling me with confidence that THEY are confident. I'm a little worried about our May ABD - at this point its our only planned trip besides the October one that we're 95% cancelling - my husband wants to push the ABD out to next December which would be no traveling for just under two years for us.


----------



## Skylarr29

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I am confused with how to book a "placeholder" ABD. My TA sent an e-mail as follows:
> 
> _As long as I have been doing this deposits were non-refundable/non-transferable 14 days after you booked the Adventure-  you could cancel it or move it within that 14 day window of booking but then it became non-refundable_
> 
> This contradicts what I understand about a "placeholder". I am looking to move our October 20, 2020 Egypt ABD as we won't be going and I do not plan on making our PIF next month (if ABD follows their pattern they won't cancel the trip until mid-August and our PIF is next month). The deposit for this trip was moved from our Rhone River cruise (that we booked before the Egypt trip was announced), so I'm not sure if we would be eligible to move it again.
> 
> At this point I am thinking that if they don't want to let me move my deposit to another date I will just walk away and be done with them. I think they should be flexible during these uncertain times and not force people to either travel or lose their money.



we had two October trips booked (china and Southeast Asia) and we were able to move both on opening day a few weeks ago. We knew we weren’t comfortable and didn’t want to play 30k chicken with Disney anymore.

you can move your deposit once, note you will not be able to take advantage of discounts or early booking.

Ask your agent to call and figure it out. if you book another adventure in the future I’d use another agent. Good luck.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

sayhello said:


> I believe the current policy is that you can only move your deposit once.  But you can definitely do it that once.  It *is* _transferable_ to another trip, but not refundable.
> 
> The current "temporary adjustment" to that policy is currently only good through the end of September.
> 
> _Guests currently booked on adventures through September 30, 2020 can change their reservation and receive a 100% credit to be used toward a future adventure. Guests may select a new travel date and/or an alternate adventure by March 31, 2021 by calling (855) 223-0025 or (407) 566-8345. The credit is non-refundable and standard prevailing rates will apply. _
> 
> Is July your PIF with the new policy?
> 
> _Beginning March 19, 2020, a Final Payment Extension will be automatically added to all reservations for adventures departing through November 30, 2020.
> Final payments will be extended out an additional 30 days._
> 
> Sayhello


Thank you for the input. I had an e-mail from my TA this morning that we will be able to move our deposit one time. I decided to wait until closer to our PIF to see if they offer a refund on the deposit (which would be nice, but I'm not counting on it). If not then ds and I will have to decide what trip to move the deposit to; at this point I'm thinking of NZ in early 2022, but I'm not sure. I'm with @Skylarr29 -- I'm not playing a game of chicken with ABD with my money.


----------



## sayhello

AquaDame said:


> That end of March date is getting closer... I wonder if they will push it out the longer this goes on. The fact that the park reservations are running through late September 2021 isn't filling me with confidence that THEY are confident. I'm a little worried about our May ABD - at this point its our only planned trip besides the October one that we're 95% cancelling - my husband wants to push the ABD out to next December which would be no traveling for just under two years for us.


I'm pretty much in the same boat.  I currently have *NO* travel plans, and don't plan on making any until there's a viable treatment or a vaccine.  Which could be a year and a half to two years.   

Sayhello


----------



## BluesTraveler

sayhello said:


> I'm pretty much in the same boat.  I currently have *NO* travel plans, and don't plan on making any until there's a viable treatment or a vaccine.  Which could be a year and a half to two years.
> 
> Sayhello


We are the same - no travel planned at all (and no plans to book anything until there is a vaccine).


----------



## scottmel

I am so grateful I played chicken and won. I was irritated b/c the original booking was a placeholder from 2 years ago and it always irked me that I couldn't get any early book incentives for the placeholder trip so I booked August 2020. I had airfare thru ABD, no insurance. Cancelled the trip the day they ruled on the August trips.  Received all my refunds back on my charge card today. Honestly ANYONE with a September trip - play chicken. NOTHING is going to go. I did my PIF on time etc. but just based on MEDIA true or false, Disney will err on caution. I'd play chicken and get the early book discount for next time.


----------



## Spencer Wright

AquaDame said:


> That end of March date is getting closer... I wonder if they will push it out the longer this goes on. The fact that the park reservations are running through late September 2021 isn't filling me with confidence that THEY are confident. I'm a little worried about our May ABD - at this point its our only planned trip besides the October one that we're 95% cancelling - my husband wants to push the ABD out to next December which would be no traveling for just under two years for us.



Do you have any thoughts as to when ABD may start running again?  I have a November Backstage magic I have been starting to look into researching again (i.e. Pre and post nights), and am wondering if I need to take a less optimistic view.

I understand it is a complicated and hypothetical question.


----------



## scottmel

Spencer Wright said:


> Do you have any thoughts as to when ABD may start running again?  I have a November Backstage magic I have been starting to look into researching again (i.e. Pre and post nights), and am wondering if I need to take a less optimistic view.
> 
> I understand it is a complicated and hypothetical question.


I think if your trip is AFTER the election you will be fine. If before, I wouldn't count on it.


----------



## Rapunzellover

scottmel said:


> I think if your trip is AFTER the election you will be fine. If before, I wouldn't count on it.



Why do you say this?  The election isn't gonna change anything re: COVID-19.


----------



## AquaDame

Spencer Wright said:


> Do you have any thoughts as to when ABD may start running again?  I have a November Backstage magic I have been starting to look into researching again (i.e. Pre and post nights), and am wondering if I need to take a less optimistic view.
> 
> I understand it is a complicated and hypothetical question.



The only real thought I have on it is that they'll proceed once they can give most of the proper experience. We aren't just talking about park entry, but think of all the other spaces the tour goes as well, down to the backstage areas of Imagineering and the Hansen studios... every outsider they bring in is one less employee that can be in that spot, and the areas they go are very tight too. So much of the tour is in tight spaces that "belong" to the workers. I imagine their unions would have concerns... I can't even imagine them shuffling groups through Walt's Apartment right now..! Everything has to be cleaned as it is, and even moreso if more people go through. I have no insight into how much they're willing to nix off the itinerary or how long the states will have restrictions on group sizes in place though, so I'm really not sure.


----------



## lovetotravel

Spencer Wright said:


> Do you have any thoughts as to when ABD may start running again?  I have a November Backstage magic I have been starting to look into researching again (i.e. Pre and post nights), and am wondering if I need to take a less optimistic view.
> 
> I understand it is a complicated and hypothetical question.


The fact that ABD did not cancel the entire month of September is a bit hopeful, although maybe it’s because they don’t have enough cash for refunds?
You can book your pre and post activities ONLY if they are fully refundable.


----------



## Mathmagicland

Mathmagicland said:


> This is where I’m at now - my AbD cancelled yesterday, refund in process.  Airline emailed me last week to cancel & get a voucher if my plans had changed.   Looking at their website, they’ve cancelled all flights to my destination through the week before my departure date.  So, I’ll try to wait it out a couple of weeks to see if they do end up cancelling any of the August flights.   Hoping they will cancel but a lot will depend on how much further Europe opens up and to which other countries, and when.  So, the waiting game continues....



Update - the ABD refund came through in 4 days - much quicker than expected.  That will pay off the deposits I just paid for 2021 travel- nice!  

And, the waiting game finally paid off with my flights to Europe for this cancelled trip. After getting the “you can cancel to get voucher credit “ email three weeks ago, I got the email this morning that one leg of my trip had been cancelled...which I was hoping for as that enabled me to request a refund rather than voucher credit.  Those funds will be back within a couple of weeks.  It was hard to wait but worth iI.  

That about does it for me for 2020 travel...only one non-Disney trip still pending, rescheduled from March tentatively to October or November.  Still waiting to see when that one will happen.


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## OKW Lover

lovetotravel said:


> The fact that ABD did not cancel the entire month of September is a bit hopeful, although maybe it’s because they don’t have enough cash for refunds?


Its not a cash issue.  The amount of refunds that they would have to make is incredibly small.


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## Grifdog22

In case you haven't seen this and are considering flying on American Airlines (I would rather walk)

_From Bloomberg.com on Friday 6/26/2020:_
"American Airlines Group Inc. said it would sell flights to capacity starting July 1, abandoning caps on passenger loads that were designed to promote social distancing amid the coronavirus pandemic.

American is ditching its restrictions on filling aircraft cabins just as the pandemic worsens in parts of the U.S. that had largely been spared earlier this year. Those areas include states where the carrier has major operations, such as Texas, Arizona and North Carolina."  United is the same.

"By contrast, Delta Air Lines Inc. has said it will keep middle seats open through Sept. 30. Southwest Airlines Co. has committed to block middle seats unless customers are traveling together."

Your health and that of others is worth what?


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## lovetotravel

Grifdog22 said:


> In case you haven't seen this and are considering flying on American Airlines (I would rather walk)
> 
> _From Bloomberg.com on Friday 6/26/2020:_
> "American Airlines Group Inc. said it would sell flights to capacity starting July 1, abandoning caps on passenger loads that were designed to promote social distancing amid the coronavirus pandemic.
> 
> American is ditching its restrictions on filling aircraft cabins just as the pandemic worsens in parts of the U.S. that had largely been spared earlier this year. Those areas include states where the carrier has major operations, such as Texas, Arizona and North Carolina."  United is the same.
> 
> "By contrast, Delta Air Lines Inc. has said it will keep middle seats open through Sept. 30. Southwest Airlines Co. has committed to block middle seats unless customers are traveling together."
> 
> Your health and that of others is worth what?


Thanks for posting this. I've seen many concerns with American regarding full flights!


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## Mathmagicland

Grifdog22 said:


> In case you haven't seen this and are considering flying on American Airlines (I would rather walk)
> 
> _From Bloomberg.com on Friday 6/26/2020:_
> "American Airlines Group Inc. said it would sell flights to capacity starting July 1, abandoning caps on passenger loads that were designed to promote social distancing amid the coronavirus pandemic.
> 
> American is ditching its restrictions on filling aircraft cabins just as the pandemic worsens in parts of the U.S. that had largely been spared earlier this year. Those areas include states where the carrier has major operations, such as Texas, Arizona and North Carolina."  United is the same.
> 
> "By contrast, Delta Air Lines Inc. has said it will keep middle seats open through Sept. 30. Southwest Airlines Co. has committed to block middle seats unless customers are traveling together."
> 
> Your health and that of others is worth what?


Had not yet seen this - thanks for sharing,  it is disappointing to see them taking this approach at this timing,....


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## *WDW*Groupie*

Grifdog22 said:


> In case you haven't seen this and are considering flying on American Airlines (I would rather walk)
> 
> _From Bloomberg.com on Friday 6/26/2020:_
> "American Airlines Group Inc. said it would sell flights to capacity starting July 1, abandoning caps on passenger loads that were designed to promote social distancing amid the coronavirus pandemic.
> 
> American is ditching its restrictions on filling aircraft cabins just as the pandemic worsens in parts of the U.S. that had largely been spared earlier this year. Those areas include states where the carrier has major operations, such as Texas, Arizona and North Carolina."  United is the same.
> 
> "By contrast, Delta Air Lines Inc. has said it will keep middle seats open through Sept. 30. Southwest Airlines Co. has committed to block middle seats unless customers are traveling together."
> 
> Your health and that of others is worth what?



I just read that Air Canada and West Jet are doing the same:

_The country’s two largest airlines are ending their on-board seat distancing policies starting July 1, raising health concerns amid a pandemic that has devastated the travel industry.
Air Canada has blocked the sale of adjacent seats in economy class, and WestJet has done the same throughout the entire plane, to help prevent the spread of COVID-19.
The carriers said Friday they will revert to health recommendations from the United Nation’s aviation agency and the International International Air Transport Association (IATA) trade group._


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## *WDW*Groupie*

In early May I submitted a claim with the DOT for the reason that West Jet refused to refund my money for my cancelled flight on May 22nd (from Fort Lauderdale to Toronto); they were offering a voucher. I might have considered a voucher for a few hundred dollars, but the cost was in excessive of $1,200.00 so I wanted my money back. A call to West Jet yielded no results and when I asked to speak to a manager I was told the CSRs were not allowed to forward calls asking for a refund to a manager.

I did receive a standard e-mail response from West Jet a few weeks ago, but this morning I received this:

_Upon investigating your concerns and reviewing your reservation, we confirm that you filed charge-back processing through your financial institution. By virtue of the chargeback process, we have effectively refunded your fare per the requirements outlined in our tariffs for this type of schedule irregularity. This appears to have been completed on June 23, 2020, therefore, no credit remains on your tickets.  As this process was initiated by you, there is nothing further that WestJet can assist with regarding your request for a refund. You may contact your financial institution to confirm the amounts have been restored to your account. WestJet considers your complaint to be resolved and no further action is required by us at this time._

It sounds like they are not going to fight my Chase dispute. While I haven't heard from Chase yet it seems that West Jet isn't fighting it and I will get my money back. I am thankful, but feel that West Jet should have refunded my money initially. I will still fly with them as they have a good product and are an alternative to Air Canada.


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## chuff88

Hey all, looking for some suggestions. I've been having a lot of trouble with Lufthansa and I'm not sure how to proceed.

I contacted them requesting a refund months ago. After a lot of back and forth, they told me they'd forward my request to the refund department on 5/25. I haven't heard anything since, despite 3 follow up emails. All of my communication has been through email because I've been entirely unsuccessful at getting through on the phone.

Today, just out of curiosity, I checked our flight status. The third leg of our flight to has had the departure time changed so that we now have an 11 hr 20 min layover rather than a 3 hr 25 min layover. It pushes our arrival to a totally different day. For our return flight, the departure time of the first leg was changed to a time that would make us miss the second leg.

This seems to obviously qualify us for a refund, but I have no idea how to contact them since I've had such terrible luck trying to get in touch. I think I might be able to do it through my credit card company, but I'm not sure. Any suggestions are appreciated.


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## Calfan

chuff88 said:


> Hey all, looking for some suggestions. I've been having a lot of trouble with Lufthansa and I'm not sure how to proceed.
> 
> I contacted them requesting a refund months ago. After a lot of back and forth, they told me they'd forward my request to the refund department on 5/25. I haven't heard anything since, despite 3 follow up emails. All of my communication has been through email because I've been entirely unsuccessful at getting through on the phone.
> 
> Today, just out of curiosity, I checked our flight status. The third leg of our flight to has had the departure time changed so that we now have an 11 hr 20 min layover rather than a 3 hr 25 min layover. It pushes our arrival to a totally different day. For our return flight, the departure time of the first leg was changed to a time that would make us miss the second leg.
> 
> This seems to obviously qualify us for a refund, but I have no idea how to contact them since I've had such terrible luck trying to get in touch. I think I might be able to do it through my credit card company, but I'm not sure. Any suggestions are appreciated.



I don't have any experience with Lufthansa specifically, but I'd suggest sending Lufthansa a direct message on Twitter.  I have had success getting responses from other airlines (Qantas, British Airways, Delta) this way.


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## atlmgm

chuff88 said:


> Hey all, looking for some suggestions. I've been having a lot of trouble with Lufthansa and I'm not sure how to proceed.
> 
> I contacted them requesting a refund months ago. After a lot of back and forth, they told me they'd forward my request to the refund department on 5/25. I haven't heard anything since, despite 3 follow up emails. All of my communication has been through email because I've been entirely unsuccessful at getting through on the phone.
> 
> Today, just out of curiosity, I checked our flight status. The third leg of our flight to has had the departure time changed so that we now have an 11 hr 20 min layover rather than a 3 hr 25 min layover. It pushes our arrival to a totally different day. For our return flight, the departure time of the first leg was changed to a time that would make us miss the second leg.
> 
> This seems to obviously qualify us for a refund, but I have no idea how to contact them since I've had such terrible luck trying to get in touch. I think I might be able to do it through my credit card company, but I'm not sure. Any suggestions are appreciated.


I would try the credit card route first but if that doesn't count call your congressman or Senator.   They are currently working on legislation for mandatory cash refunds (no future credits) for airlines.   This will apply to domestic carriers but they may have other options too.   Good luck!!!


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## Woodview

Monday  25th May was only  5 weeks ago         give them a chance to catch up on refunds 

  There are  many thousands  of  Europeans      to be dealt with    as well    so I am sure you will  hear from them soon .

    You do know that there  is   Now a  BAN    on  U.S.A.   persons      entering   Europe . 

    A Review   on this will be made   at the end  of July 2020


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## chuff88

Woodview said:


> Monday  25th May was only  5 weeks ago         give them a chance to catch up on refunds
> 
> There are  many thousands  of  Europeans      to be dealt with    as well    so I am sure you will  hear from them soon .
> 
> You do know that there  is   Now a  BAN    on  U.S.A.   persons      entering   Europe .
> 
> A Review   on this will be made   at the end  of July 2020


Monday, May 25th was when I finally got a response from them, and that response told me that they’d be in touch with me “as soon as possible” (their exact words) and now it’s been radio silence. I’d been trying to deal with this for at least another four weeks before that. They also initially told me I could only handle it by phone and I literally couldn’t get through at all. No menu, no “waiting room,” nothing.

I disputed it with Chase and because the changes affected our arrival date, Lufthansa was no longer provided the service we purchased, and Chase issued a temporary credit. They give the merchant an opportunity to respond, but I expect it’s basically resolved. It took less than 24 hours for the credit to come through.


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## chuff88

Calfan said:


> I don't have any experience with Lufthansa specifically, but I'd suggest sending Lufthansa a direct message on Twitter.  I have had success getting responses from other airlines (Qantas, British Airways, Delta) this way.


This was a good suggestion but they gave me their same “you have to resolve this by phone” garbage. They didn’t even give me a phone number to use to try to resolve it.


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## susans

I did a chargeback on our credit card for our KLM airfare.  KLM was very resistant to giving our money back even though THEY cancelled our flight.  They kept saying they would give us a refund but until we did the chargeback they never refunded the airfare.


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## chuff88

susans said:


> I did a chargeback on our credit card for our KLM airfare.  KLM was very resistant to giving our money back even though THEY cancelled our flight.  They kept saying they would give us a refund but until we did the chargeback they never refunded the airfare.


In an interesting development, it now looks like they have cancelled our flights (again without notifying us, I checked).


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## susans

If they have cancelled your flight, you can go online and ask for a refund.  Keep your screen prints and/or emails and if they give you a long wait time to get your refund, do a charge back.  The airlines have been trying to hang on to the passengers money as long as possible....


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