# Land Border Opening?



## mamaofsix

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/new-r...est-at-the-u-s-border-now-in-effect-1.5309007
The new rules in the article above seem to be referencing "non-essential travelers" crossing the land border.  It stipulates that non-essential travelers must produce a negative COVID test within the last 72 hours.  It also states, "Starting on Feb. 22, non-essential travellers will also be required to take a COVID-19 test at the border as well as at the end of their 14-day quarantine."

The current border closure implemented by Trudeau expires on Feb. 21st, but has been renewed every month since last March.  Dare one hope that the Feb. 22nd start date of these new protocols mean that the border is opening up???


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## momof2gr8kids

No.  They're talking about the non essential travelers that already crossed the border and are coming back.  The snowbirds that shipped their rvs across and are driving back, etc.  They're not going to open up the border freely for people that want to travel just because.


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## pigletto

While I agree with momof2gr8kids post above I do think there’s a small positive . 

I am hopeful that this is the very beginning of processes being put in place for the slow reopening of borders , one day . I think we are a long way off, but having the ability to test at the land border and airports could transition into those systems being in place for eventual non essential crossings .


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## efrant

mamaofsix said:


> https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/new-r...est-at-the-u-s-border-now-in-effect-1.5309007
> The new rules in the article above seem to be referencing "non-essential travelers" crossing the land border.  It stipulates that non-essential travelers must produce a negative COVID test within the last 72 hours.  It also states, "Starting on Feb. 22, non-essential travellers will also be required to take a COVID-19 test at the border as well as at the end of their 14-day quarantine."
> 
> The current border closure implemented by Trudeau expires on Feb. 21st, but has been renewed every month since last March.  Dare one hope that the Feb. 22nd start date of these new protocols mean that the border is opening up???


The Canadian border (land or otherwise) has never been closed to any Canadian citizen for entry into Canada. The new rules just indicate that a negative COVID-19 test will now be required, with additional measures starting February 22nd.


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## momof2gr8kids

pigletto said:


> While I agree with momof2gr8kids post above I do think there’s a small positive .
> 
> I am hopeful that this is the very beginning of processes being put in place for the slow reopening of borders , one day . I think we are a long way off, but having the ability to test at the land border and airports could transition into those systems being in place for eventual non essential crossings .



They'll use the data to determine next steps re border openings, travel, etc.  There are a lot of parties (us govt reps, canadian, travel industry, general public, etc.) pushing for ability to come across if you've been vaccinated.  Hopefully data will show vaccinated people are not a risk or at least having a negative covid test pre arrival and post arrival are not a risk either.  Time will tell I guess, but hopefully not too long!  Itching to get away next year. It's minus 40 with the wind chill right now.  I'm watching Poly resort tours on You tube.  Love my smart TV.  LOL


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## Jrb1979

pigletto said:


> While I agree with momof2gr8kids post above I do think there’s a small positive .
> 
> I am hopeful that this is the very beginning of processes being put in place for the slow reopening of borders , one day . I think we are a long way off, but having the ability to test at the land border and airports could transition into those systems being in place for eventual non essential crossings .


I'm expecting the border to stay closed til Fall as that's when the majority of Canadians should be vaccinated.


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## pigletto

Jrb1979 said:


> I'm expecting the border to stay closed til Fall as that's when the majority of Canadians should be vaccinated.


That’s what I’m thinking too. I’m still hopeful that ramping up testing capabilities and having them in place at the borders now will mean a smooth transition to reopening them when we get there.


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## Jrb1979

pigletto said:


> That’s what I’m thinking too. I’m still hopeful that ramping up testing capabilities and having them in place at the borders now will mean a smooth transition to reopening them when we get there.


I'm thinking you will need proof of vaccination to cross when they do open.


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## Marek Zyskowski

I hope the land border reopens in the summer. I suspect there will be a great deal of pressure for the tourism industry to restart. The pace of vaccination is quite good in the United State and they will be likely the first large country to turn the corner on this pandemic and set up some sort of rule for international visitors that makes sense. I am optimistic but we will need to see where this goes.


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## bcwife76

Jrb1979 said:


> I'm expecting the border to stay closed til Fall as that's when the majority of Canadians should be vaccinated.


I agree. I'd say there is less than 1% chance of our border reopening before September.


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## Jrb1979

bcwife76 said:


> I agree. I'd say there is less than 1% chance of our border reopening before September.


I prepared for that and made travel plans in Canada and Ontario this summer. Taking a road trip to Montreal to visit La Ronde. Do Collingwood again.


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## Carolynleanne

Agreed. I don't see it being open before a majority are vaccinated.


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## TommyJK

Carolynleanne said:


> Agreed. I don't see it being open before a majority are vaccinated.



This may be a daunting task. While there is an eagerness right now to get a vaccine, polling still shows that only 65% of American adults want it.

Studies are noting that we likely need to get to upwards of 75% of the entire population to be vaccinated to be heavily effective in not only squashing the spread but also in reducing/preventing more emergence of variants.  Although studies are still ongoing because they don't know how effective the vaccines are at preventing spread from those that have been vaccinated. 

The good news is that here in Canada 87% of Canadians say they will for sure or most likely get the vaccine.

But we'll likely be waiting until there is high adoption of the vaccine on both sides of the border before they more heavily open it up with low restrictions. I'm hoping both availability AND adoption, along with studies that hopefully show the vaccine is effective in transmission too happens quickly. I can't wait to be able to travel back to the US.


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## ilovetotravel1977

We won’t be going anywhere, except PEI, if we have to quarantine for two weeks. If that goes away by summer, we could end up in Bahamas at Atlantis after all! *dreams*


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## HappilyEverAfter80

Jrb1979 said:


> I'm expecting the border to stay closed til Fall as that's when the majority of Canadians should be vaccinated.


I’m also thinking September, once the kids are back in school and high travel season would have ended... which will likely coincide with larger % of population vaccinated (both in Canada and USA) the borders will reopen for leisure travel without having to jump through a million hoops. Now... if this happens in time for summer travel... I’ll be pleasantly surprised. As much as I want to go somewhere (across the border) this summer, I would rather it stay closed til Fall and then reopen sans restrictions and once and for all  
I have a lot of time off this summer, if inter provincial travel is allowed we may fly to BC and Quebec City & Montreal. We have never been as we are always too busy flying internationally. I don’t know the first thing about planning a trip to either place, where to stay and what to do... but we’ll see.


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## mshanson3121

mamaofsix said:


> https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/new-r...est-at-the-u-s-border-now-in-effect-1.5309007
> The new rules in the article above seem to be referencing "non-essential travelers" crossing the land border.  It stipulates that non-essential travelers must produce a negative COVID test within the last 72 hours.  It also states, "Starting on Feb. 22, non-essential travellers will also be required to take a COVID-19 test at the border as well as at the end of their 14-day quarantine."
> 
> The current border closure implemented by Trudeau expires on Feb. 21st, but has been renewed every month since last March.  Dare one hope that the Feb. 22nd start date of these new protocols mean that the border is opening up???



Nope. Not a chance. They're just referring to Canadians who are returning home to Canada from the US, such as mentioned above, snowbirds who flew to the US and are now driving home. It would also likely include those who were able to get a "pass" to cross for reasons such as serious illness/death in family, medical travel, visit a loved one etc...


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## mshanson3121

Jrb1979 said:


> I prepared for that and made travel plans in Canada and Ontario this summer. Taking a road trip to Montreal to visit La Ronde. Do Collingwood again.



We don't dare make any plans. All travel into and out of our border is closed. There's talk they may re-open the Atlantic Bubble this spring, but my guess is outside of that we'll still be under isolation requirements.


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## hdrolfe

Looks like it was extended another month to March 21.


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## mort1331

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> We won’t be going anywhere, except PEI, if we have to quarantine for two weeks. If that goes away by summer, we could end up in Bahamas at Atlantis after all! *dreams*


Sorry with or without Covid, In the summer We would take PEI over Bahamas all week long. Yumm get me some Cows now....we even drive to Niagara for some Cows,,,just saying.


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## quandrea

mort1331 said:


> Sorry with or without Covid, In the summer We would take PEI over Bahamas all week long. Yumm get me some Cows now....we even drive to Niagara for some Cows,,,just saying.


Agreed!  I’m dreaming of a cycling trip across pei. One of these days...


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## ilovetotravel1977

Oh I get the love for PEI, but the Atlantis trip was supposed to happen last summer...and I don’t have to pay for it lol


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## Donald - my hero

mort1331 said:


> Sorry with or without Covid, In the summer We would take PEI over Bahamas all week long. Yumm get me some Cows now....we even drive to Niagara for some Cows,,,just saying.


*We're up to our ears cleaning out fridge & freezer since we only got word at 6 on Thursday that the new ones are coming tomorrow and I've been doing massive shopping trips. I'm currently chomping my way thru a brick of extra old white cheddar from Cow's!!! (yup, package open in my hand, eating like a savage  )*


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## mshanson3121

mort1331 said:


> Sorry with or without Covid, In the summer We would take PEI over Bahamas all week long. Yumm get me some Cows now....we even drive to Niagara for some Cows,,,just saying.




Cows chocolate covered potato chips... And the ice cream and the raspberry cordial. 

That said, maybe because I've been there sooo many times, I would definitely take the Bahamas over PEI!


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## ottawamom

Jacqueline, do you have snow. If so just empty everything into some rubber made type bins in the morning and go stick them in the snowbank. If you know what time the fridge/freezers are coming you could time it pretty well that things aren't out too long.


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## person

Jrb1979 said:


> I'm expecting the border to stay closed til Fall as that's when the majority of Canadians should be vaccinated.


Hi; interesting point; kind of links in with the general vaccination in the future. I guess I'm not to fussed about not being able easily to cross the border, though it would be good...


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## person

momof2gr8kids said:


> No.  They're talking about the non essential travelers that already crossed the border and are coming back.  The snowbirds that shipped their rvs across and are driving back, etc.  They're not going to open up the border freely for people that want to travel just because.


 Hi; yes, I can see that some ppl in the US and coming back will think they can get stuck...


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## Donald - my hero

ottawamom said:


> Jacqueline, do you have snow. If so just empty everything into some rubber made type bins in the morning and go stick them in the snowbank. If you know what time the fridge/freezers are coming you could time it pretty well that things aren't out too long.


*Yup, the old Canadian beer fridge  We actually didn't need to resort to that because luckily this was to be my big shopping week. Our daughter and her wife live really close and have a HUGE fridge/freezer so hubby took over all the ice cream and my frozen blueberries (the 2 most important things in our freezer, one for hubby and the other for me!) He came back with our D-I-L's old dorm fridge that has a freezer as well so it's stuffed with the fridge items and they also had one of those coolers from Costco that keeps things frozen for up to 48 hours. We used the frozen tubes of ground beef as ice packs, plus all the bottle full of frozen water we keep on hand for ice-cream frenzy airmiles sales to keep the 2 big coolers cold. They won't get opened until the deep freeze gets here. Luckily it was garbage day so we took the opportunity to toss a bunch of things that no one wants to eat!!

As to when they're coming? You know the story "any time between 9 and 5" *

*****Update just got the automated phone call, the delivery is happening between 10:30 and 1:30 now I can sleep in *


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## Minniemoo15

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1365006158713540610
This has given me a little bit of hope that at least they are thinking about reopening, what it might look like, etc. If you click the thread there is some good info there. Not a lot - but it’s the first rumblings I have seen. Seriously hoping HARD for March 2022!!


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## wdwmom3

Minniemoo15 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1365006158713540610
> This has given me a little bit of hope that at least they are thinking about reopening, what it might look like, etc. If you click the thread there is some good info there. Not a lot - but it’s the first rumblings I have seen. Seriously hoping HARD for March 2022!!



I’m pretty confident by March 2022 it will be open.  Vaccines are going slowly but they are happening.


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## Minniemoo15

wdwmom3 said:


> I’m pretty confident by March 2022 it will be open.  Vaccines are going slowly but they are happening.


I hope so too. My concern is my kids .. they are 6 and 8 so too young for the vaccine. Maybe rapid testing on return or a shortened quarantine would be allowed for them by then. It would be a shame to leave them at home (Joking, sort of?)


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## person

Time will indeed tell...


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## DavidL

When the border does eventually open, I am expecting a lineup at the crossing that will be 5 to 10 km in length...    I'm thinking that our next trip to Disney might involve crossing the border at 3AM to try avoid a lineup...


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## Minniemoo15

DavidL said:


> When the border does eventually open, I am expecting a lineup at the crossing that will be 5 to 10 km in length...    I'm thinking that our next trip to Disney might involve crossing the border at 3AM to try avoid a lineup...


A similar lineup was experienced when the Atlantic Bubble first opened. I have friends who crossed at 4am to avoid the lines. After the first couple of days it died down but would still be lengthy on Fridays, Sundays, holidays.


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## pigletto

DavidL said:


> When the border does eventually open, I am expecting a lineup at the crossing that will be 5 to 10 km in length...    I'm thinking that our next trip to Disney might involve crossing the border at 3AM to try avoid a lineup...


I live right near three crossings. It’s a well known fact that if you are trying to cross on a holiday weekend you better be prepared to sit for hours .
I can’t even imagine what it will look like when it first reopens. Especially if we need to show documentation of vaccinations etc .There will be some waits for sure !


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## TammyLynn33

DavidL said:


> When the border does eventually open, I am expecting a lineup at the crossing that will be 5 to 10 km in length...    I'm thinking that our next trip to Disney might involve crossing the border at 3AM to try avoid a lineup...



I agree but I also have a lot and I mean a lot of people who are saying it will be a long long time before they go to the US again.


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## mshanson3121

It's one thing for it to be open, it's another to be able to cross without a 2 week quarantine requirement.


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## ellbell

TammyLynn33 said:


> I agree but I also have a lot and I mean a lot of people who are saying it will be a long long time before they go to the US again.


I'll be going as soon as it opens.  I'm within 45 minutes of the border and I miss shopping and eating over there.  I work from home as well so I don't even mind doing the 2 week quarantine if that is still in place.


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## Carolynleanne

pigletto said:


> I live right near three crossings. It’s a well known fact that if you are trying to cross on a holiday weekend you better be prepared to sit for hours .
> I can’t even imagine what it will look like when it first reopens. Especially if we need to show documentation of vaccinations etc .There will be some waits for sure !



Remember when our NEXUS use to be a good pass? HAHA. Now I have NO idea what to expect when those borders reopen!


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## HappilyEverAfter80

DavidL said:


> When the border does eventually open, I am expecting a lineup at the crossing that will be 5 to 10 km in length...    I'm thinking that our next trip to Disney might involve crossing the border at 3AM to try avoid a lineup...


I just envisioned crossing the border at 3am to drive to Disney, crazy how confined and locked up I feel right now. I hope it will be later this year that we can, will be behind you in line at 3 am


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## person

I guess the scale of the vaccination programs might have something to do with how fast the border restrictions are eventually eased...


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## person

Carolynleanne said:


> Remember when our NEXUS use to be a good pass? HAHA. Now I have NO idea what to expect when those borders reopen!


Carolynleanne: NEXUS used to be a fast track! 

I guess at the moment it's pretty irrelevant....


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## Carolynleanne

person said:


> Carolynleanne: NEXUS used to be a fast track!
> 
> I guess at the moment it's pretty irrelevant....


Yep... i miss it


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## person

Carolynleanne said:


> Yep... i miss it


Kind of seems a bit of a distant memory...


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## Sue M

pigletto said:


> I live right near three crossings. It’s a well known fact that if you are trying to cross on a holiday weekend you better be prepared to sit for hours .
> I can’t even imagine what it will look like when it first reopens. Especially if we need to show documentation of vaccinations etc .There will be some waits for sure !


I think it has a lot to do with the US side not staffing all the booths.  There was the govt shut downs, labour disputes, cut backs....on & on. 
I can’t wait to be able to go over to Bellingham again!  Trader Joe’s, Costco gas lol, and my fav Mexican restaurant!   Sigh


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## Carolynleanne

Sue M said:


> I think it has a lot to do with the US side not staffing all the booths.  There was the govt shut downs, labour disputes, cut backs....on & on.
> I can’t wait to be able to go over to Bellingham again!  Trader Joe’s, Costco gas lol, and my fav Mexican restaurant!   Sigh



SAME! I miss Target and American Walmart, haha. It was our favourite weekend activity.


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## mshanson3121

Carolynleanne said:


> SAME! I miss Target and American Walmart, haha. It was our favourite weekend activity.



Yes!!! We were trying to buy a few things for the kids the other day, and oh my word I missed being able to shop stateside - both physically shop over there (JC Penny.... ) and being able to shop online and ship it to my US post office box.  And of course the outlet stores....


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## Susan2771

U.S. congressman asks Biden to fully reopen Canadian border by July 4 | CTV News

Susan Collins calls for immediate easing of US-Canada border restrictions (bangordailynews.com)


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## wdwmom3

Susan2771 said:


> U.S. congressman asks Biden to fully reopen Canadian border by July 4 | CTV News
> 
> Susan Collins calls for immediate easing of US-Canada border restrictions (bangordailynews.com)


Well it’s not just up to Biden.   We aren’t going to start letting people come here with no quarantine that quickly.


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## HappilyEverAfter80

Susan2771 said:


> U.S. congressman asks Biden to fully reopen Canadian border by July 4 | CTV News
> 
> Susan Collins calls for immediate easing of US-Canada border restrictions (bangordailynews.com)





wdwmom3 said:


> Well it’s not just up to Biden.   We aren’t going to start letting people come here with no quarantine that quickly.


Actually I keep reading that the US president may want to keep us Canadians out of the US because we are far far far from being vaccinated compared to them.  They will have a much higher % vaccinated by July, we are a few months behind them. So while the congressman is pushing for that... the truth is now we are in worse shape than USA.


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## wdwmom3

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> Actually I keep reading that the US president may want to keep us Canadians out of the US because we are far far far from being vaccinated compared to them.  They will have a much higher % vaccinated by July, we are a few months behind them. So while the congressman is pushing for that... the truth is now we are in worse shape than USA.



That is also true.


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## NewYKRunner

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> the truth is now we are in worse shape than USA.


How so?  Our cases are way lower than in the US.  Yes our vaccinations have been slow, but they'll ramp up very quickly.  It will be a lot easier to vaccinate 25 million adults vs 290 (ballparking eligible adult populations - feel free to correct - and of course there will be the anti-vaxxers).  I'm 39 and got my first dose last evening, my wife gets her first next Thursday.  Only symptom so far is feels like someone gave me a real good punch in the arm.  We're in the NWT and any willing adult 18 and up can get it now.


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## Gigi22

NewYKRunner said:


> How so?  Our cases are way lower than in the US.  Yes our vaccinations have been slow, but they'll ramp up very quickly.  It will be a lot easier to vaccinate 25 million adults vs 290 (ballparking eligible adult populations - feel free to correct - and of course there will be the anti-vaxxers).  I'm 39 and got my first dose last evening, my wife gets her first next Thursday.  Only symptom so far is feels like someone gave me a real good punch in the arm.  We're in the NWT and any willing adult 18 and up can get it now.



I wish!  I’m in Ontario, over 65, and hoping like heck to get my first shot in June.  For a lot of us, a first dose is months off.  Second dose another 4 months after.


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## redrosesix

NewYKRunner said:


> How so?  Our cases are way lower than in the US.  Yes our vaccinations have been slow, but they'll ramp up very quickly.  It will be a lot easier to vaccinate 25 million adults vs 290 (ballparking eligible adult populations - feel free to correct - and of course there will be the anti-vaxxers).  I'm 39 and got my first dose last evening, my wife gets her first next Thursday.  Only symptom so far is feels like someone gave me a real good punch in the arm.  We're in the NWT and any willing adult 18 and up can get it now.



we aren't even really getting started in Nova Scotia.  My mother is 86 and her first vaccine will be in 3 weeks, at the earliest.

Ottawa sent more vaccines your way, so the rest of us have to wait.  I think they did the right thing because we have more than enough health care facilities with access for our whole population. lol I think it only takes 8 hours to drive from one end of the province to the other.


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## NewYKRunner

Gigi22 said:


> I wish!  I’m in Ontario, over 65, and hoping like heck to get my first shot in June.  For a lot of us, a first dose is months off.  Second dose another 4 months after.





redrosesix said:


> we aren't even really getting started in Nova Scotia.  My mother is 86 and her first vaccine will be in 3 weeks, at the earliest.
> 
> Ottawa sent more vaccines your way, so the rest of us have to wait.  I think they did the right thing because we have more than enough health care facilities with access for our whole population. lol I think it only takes 8 hours to drive from one end of the province to the other.



We're aware we are very lucky - the "joys" of being in the middle of nowhere and a small population.  They did not send more our way, they sent SOME - very little actually, but it's easy to vaccinate 35,000 adults vs. millions in some provinces.  But the point of my original post is why is Canada worse off than the US other than vaccinations were at a slow start?


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## wdwmom3

NewYKRunner said:


> How so?  Our cases are way lower than in the US.  Yes our vaccinations have been slow, but they'll ramp up very quickly.  It will be a lot easier to vaccinate 25 million adults vs 290 (ballparking eligible adult populations - feel free to correct - and of course there will be the anti-vaxxers).  I'm 39 and got my first dose last evening, my wife gets her first next Thursday.  Only symptom so far is feels like someone gave me a real good punch in the arm.  We're in the NWT and any willing adult 18 and up can get it now.



A lot higher amount of vaccines were sent up North because of a lot more people who may be at risk.    In Ontario we have some areas that are just starting to vaccinate the 80+ crowd and other areas won’t start until maybe the end of next week.  They were predicting that they won’t even get to those under 60 until this summer.  

Yes our cases are lower.  But Ontario looks like our cases could really jump again any time now.  And the US has a much higher % of their population vaccinated.


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## wdwmom3

NewYKRunner said:


> We're aware we are very lucky - the "joys" of being in the middle of nowhere and a small population.  They did not send more our way, they sent SOME - very little actually, but it's easy to vaccinate 35,000 adults vs. millions in some provinces.  But the point of my original post is why is Canada worse off than the US other than vaccinations were at a slow start?



They actually did send more your way if you look at it based on population.  Otherwise there is no way NWT can be offering the vaccine for those 18+ when some areas haven’t even started vaccinating 80+. And it’s all because of supply.  Not logistics.  

Don’t take this as complaining.  They were totally right in making sure people living in more remote areas were protected first.


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## NewYKRunner

wdwmom3 said:


> They actually did send more your way if you look at it based on population.  Otherwise there is no way NWT can be offering the vaccine for those 18+ when some areas haven’t even started vaccinating 80+. And it’s all because of supply.  Not logistics.
> 
> Don’t take this as complaining.  They were totally right in making sure people living in more remote areas were protected first.



I'm not complaining and not taking it as complaining! Per capita you're right we did get more in that regard.  I still think Canada is doing much better than the US, even when you look at per capita cases.


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## redrosesix

NewYKRunner said:


> We're aware we are very lucky - the "joys" of being in the middle of nowhere and a small population.  They did not send more our way, they sent SOME - very little actually, but it's easy to vaccinate 35,000 adults vs. millions in some provinces.  But the point of my original post is why is Canada worse off than the US other than vaccinations were at a slow start?



they probably sent you the same amount of vaccines, or more, than they did to Nova Scotia. We're still waiting on 2nd doses for health care workers and people in nursing homes. We just started vaccinating people over 80. but we have another 800k people to vaccinate after that...so it will be months and months at the rate we are receiving vaccines.  

Nova Scotia is only 3 hours from Maine, and to get to us Americans have to drive through New Brunswick which is in the same boat as us.  In Maine they're already vaccinating their 50 year olds, teachers, people with chronic illness. Most of those people won't be vaccinated in Nova Scotia until at least the summer so we're not ready for tourists.


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## HappilyEverAfter80

NewYKRunner said:


> How so?  Our cases are way lower than in the US.  Yes our vaccinations have been slow, but they'll ramp up very quickly.  It will be a lot easier to vaccinate 25 million adults vs 290 (ballparking eligible adult populations - feel free to correct - and of course there will be the anti-vaxxers).  I'm 39 and got my first dose last evening, my wife gets her first next Thursday.  Only symptom so far is feels like someone gave me a real good punch in the arm.  We're in the NWT and any willing adult 18 and up can get it now.



You would think that having a much lower population than the US would mean we would be ahead, but we are way behind. If you look it up, Canada is about 59th in terms of % of population vaccinated compared to other G7/wealthy countries. I believe the latest data shows USA to be vaccinated by June and Canada September-ish?
Things are opening up there whereas in Canada we are looking at a possible third lockdown looming. Look up yesterday’s article in the globe & mail titled “We now have 2 pandemics”. This is all because of slow vaccination progress in our country. Now - it’s a completely different situation in the NWT than most of Canada. You are very lucky. In Ontario we have barely vaccinated seniors and staff in long term care and they just opened for over 80. I am 39 this year and don’t anticipate to be able to get the shot til late summer.


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## Gigi22

As another point of comparison, my DSis (59) who lives in Pennsylvania has had both her Pfizer shots, she works in hospital admin.  Her DH (early 60s) and both her children (in their late 20s) have just had their first Pfizer shot.


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## Gigi22

Duplicate


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## NewYKRunner

Canada has received over a million doses in the last week and a lot more are coming in the near future.  We will get there soon!

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-hea...vid-19-vaccine-treatment/vaccine-rollout.html


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## Donald - my hero

*Careful people,  we don't want another thread shut down. It seems that once we start comparing numbers on both sides of the border we get flagged as becoming political. I think it's safe to say that everyone, no matter where in the world they live, is tired. Today marks one year since COVID-19 was declared a pandemic. We all want to get to other side of this and back to some semblance of whatever our new normal will be.  We all wish things were moving faster, that vaccines were happening like in the movies (you know,  vaccine is developed,  poof the entire world is saved in the last 5 minutes) but it's not like that.  *


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## mshanson3121

NewYKRunner said:


> How so?  Our cases are way lower than in the US.  Yes our vaccinations have been slow, but they'll ramp up very quickly.  It will be a lot easier to vaccinate 25 million adults vs 290 (ballparking eligible adult populations - feel free to correct - and of course there will be the anti-vaxxers).  I'm 39 and got my first dose last evening, my wife gets her first next Thursday.  Only symptom so far is feels like someone gave me a real good punch in the arm.  We're in the NWT and any willing adult 18 and up can get it now.



Because they have a higher percentage vaccinated than us, better access to vaccines and because our decline in case numbers has plateaued, while theirs is continuing to drop. Your experience in the NWT is nothing like what the rest of Canada is facing. Here in NB they're still a couple/few weeks away from starting to vaccinate people 85+. We're many, MANY months away from having the general population vaccinated.


----------



## NewYKRunner

mshanson3121 said:


> Because they have a higher percentage vaccinated than us, better access to vaccines and because our decline in case numbers has plateaued, while theirs is continuing to drop. Your experience in the NWT is nothing like what the rest of Canada is facing. Here in NB they're still a couple/few weeks away from starting to vaccinate people 85+. We're many, MANY months away from having the general population vaccinated.



My last reply to this thread as it seems to be getting heated. I have travelled, and know what it looks like in Alberta hospitals, it’s not nice at all. The US cases have plateaued as well and 7 day average for cases: 3026 for Canada vs 63273 for US and deaths: 33 for Canada vs 3091 for the US. Not exactly tied to the population differences between the two of us. We are doing great and hopefully it stays that way. Stay safe folks and keep doing your part.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

Despite all the negative right now, I am still optimistic that we will be out of it by late summer on both sides. Just imagine the day where we can actually cross the border freely without fear and great difficulty. I do really believe it will be this Fall. It has to be  Let’s keep planning those Disney vacations in the meantime, or at least just driving over for a day of shopping at Target and dinner at the Olive Garden. I am also ready to welcome Americans here, this is all a good thing for all. Here is to brighter days ahead


----------



## Sue M

Gigi22 said:


> I wish!  I’m in Ontario, over 65, and hoping like heck to get my first shot in June.  For a lot of us, a first dose is months off.  Second dose another 4 months after.


I was just speaking to a friend in Ontario this morning via email. She is in the 60-65 age group and told me Ontario is starting to vaccinate 60-65 with the AZ vaccine and she already has an appointment. In March.


----------



## Donald - my hero

Sue M said:


> I was just speaking to a friend in Ontario this morning via email. She is in the 60-65 age group and told me Ontario is starting to vaccinate 60-65 with the AZ vaccine and she already has an appointment. In March.


*only in some health units under specific set of hoops to jump thru.  We have a bunch of doses that expire April 2nd and are being given to healthy adults 60-64 only,  (some reports have some doses going to family members of LTC  workers) and it's not sure how this will take place.  Sadly my FIL is 96, lives alone and has yet to get even his first shot.  Once the short dated doses are gone the people in that age segment will be put back in line.  Since each health unit is in charge of how vaccines are being administered there are stark differences throughout the entire province that's really causing frustration  anger and distrust. I'm technically ahead of most of the people who will be getting those shots because I have preexisting conditions but I'm not upset about it. Get this party moving! This will happen, just hard to be patient when we're in the middle of something this large. *


----------



## Minniemoo15

My 97 year old grandmother (who lives alone and is still very much independent) was finally able to make her appointment today for next week.

I was growing very impatient these last few weeks, just wanting her to be able to get vaccinated. And yet, she did not feel this same frustration and simply said “let others who need it more than I do get it first”. And also “the old people need it more than I do” (which made me laugh )

Anyway - It is a good reminder to me that my time will come and to be as patient as I can. My grandmother’s generation has been through some horrific experiences in their lifetime which I think gives them some extra special perspective on this.

The light at the end of the tunnel is within sight. We are almost there !


----------



## TammyLynn33

Back to the thread topic.. articles are saying they want border open by July 4th I find it interesting the president said last night a sense of normal by July 4.. maybe it’s just an easy date to pick but hmm


----------



## Dawg74

I am really hoping for a safe reopening of the borders by fall or sooner if possible.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

TammyLynn33 said:


> Back to the thread topic.. articles are saying they want border open by July 4th I find it interesting the president said last night a sense of normal by July 4.. maybe it’s just an easy date to pick but hmm


I can totally see that. I also read something similar  last night but then in the same article it said the States plans to have vaccines for everyone by end of May and Canada by end of September and it will depend on OUR progress. So then back to the pace of vaccinations it is darn it. Lol
 No matter how we slice it we are behind others. However, I am still hopeful that the pace will pick up and we’ll be in much better shape earlier than Fall. 
It’s hard to be patient when you can see the light at the end of the tunnel and talks of another lockdown looming in Ontario.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

Dawg74 said:


> I am really hoping for a safe reopening of the borders by fall or sooner if possible.


This is how I feel too, it would be nice if it was sooner but otherwise I’m very hopeful for safe opening by Fall.
Fall is 6 months away but if we can at least have a normal summer in the meantime.....
It would be wonderful


----------



## pigletto

I think it’s time that we are told what it will take to open the borders. “We are waiting for X % of people to be vaccinated on both sides“ etc. It would go a long way to start giving the public some information. I’m hopeful that the powers that be will be a little more forthcoming soon.

An interesting positive sign... I watch a lot of YouTube videos.. way more than tv. I usually skip through the ads, even the Disney ones. There has been a ton of Disney ads the last week telling people to start planning again when they’re ready on Disney.ca
So signs of an eventual return to WDW are beginning.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

pigletto said:


> I think it’s time that we are told what it will take to open the borders etc. “We are waiting for X % of people to be vaccinated on both sides“ etc. It would go a long way to start giving the public some information.
> 
> An interesting positive sign... I watch a lot of YouTube videos.. way more than tv. I always skip through the ads, even the Disney ones. There has been a ton of Disney ads the last week telling people to start planning again when they’re ready on Disney.ca
> So signs of an eventual return to WDW are beginning.


Yes!!! I agree wholeheartedly... just tell us what you are waiting for.  I find this has been an issue in Canada in general, at first we were told they want to flatten the curve. Ever since nobody has any idea at what point do they lift restrictions etc - when cases are zero or...? Same thing with the borders. If they know that they need both sides vaccinated to a certain % first and we won’t be there til Fall, just tell the people. Instead of extending month by month. It’s the lack of transparency that is frustrating. I am also loving your comment re: Disney ads. So so excited


----------



## Pumpkin1172

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> Despite all the negative right now, I am still optimistic that we will be out of it by late summer on both sides. Just imagine the day where we can actually cross the border freely without fear and great difficulty. I do really believe it will be this Fall. It has to be  Let’s keep planning those Disney vacations in the meantime, or at least just driving over for a day of shopping


My gut is telling me that fall ( late September ) everything will look totally different for travel.  I feel like either side could push to have the border open sooner rather than later, but there are just too many unanswered questions about reopening the boarder yet.  


pigletto said:


> think it’s time that we are told what it will take to open the borders. “We are waiting for X % of people to be vaccinated on both sides“ etc. It would go a long way to start giving the public some information. I’m hopeful that the powers that be will be a little more forthcoming soon.


I think many of us are thinking and wishing that they would just make a stance and be transparent. but it is wishful thinking that our government will give us those details.


----------



## Aladora

Dawg74 said:


> I am really hoping for a safe reopening of the borders by fall or sooner if possible.



Fall would be great but I am just hoping for sometime before early March 2022!


----------



## DisneyMama811

Aladora said:


> Fall would be great but I am just hoping for sometime before early March 2022!


I'm with you! If the border opens I want to book for February 2022. I've started applications for passports for everyone in the hopes that the border will soon be open again.


----------



## samsteele

Pumpkin1172 said:


> My gut is telling me that fall ( late September ) everything will look totally different for travel.


My sense is a bit earlier ie late July or early August. I don't know about totally different for travel but probably quarantine hotels gone and rapid tests only. Also just my gut and very dependent on steady flow and uptake of vaccines. Also don't underestimate the power of the snowbird lobby. Many will not do another winter in Canada and must get back to their homes in Florida for a physical check and to get needed repairs and maintenance done. At least in Ontario and Quebec, our winter has been wonderfully mild and less snow this year. While we've seen a few renegade snowbirds go south, the majority have stayed in Canada this winter.


----------



## mshanson3121

I'm thinking the July 4th date happens, but I do think you'll either have to show proof of vaccination or else quarantine for 14 days.


----------



## DisneyMama811

mshanson3121 said:


> I'm thinking the July 4th date happens, but I do think you'll either have to show proof of vaccination or else quarantine for 14 days.


I wouldn't be surprised if proof of vaccination will be required


----------



## bcwife76

And considering many of us will not be *fully* vaccinated by July 4th (remember the 4 months between shots? ugh) that will still mean staying home if we want to avoid the quarantine


----------



## Ensusieasm

bcwife76 said:


> And considering many of us will not be *fully* vaccinated by July 4th (remember the 4 months between shots? ugh) that will still mean staying home if we want to avoid the quarantine


Not 4 months between shots, it’s 4 or 3 weeks between shots. Followed by two week immunity building period.


----------



## ellbell

I don't even care about the border opening anymore and I'm tired of trying to guess when I can make plans.  I'm booking for 2 weeks at the end of august/beginning of September. Just waiting for discounts other than the ticket discount. We will fly from Toronto to Orlando and fly back to buffalo.  If the border isn't open I'll take a cab to the border crossing and walk across.  I'm done playing this guessing game.


----------



## bcwife76

Ensusieasm said:


> Not 4 months between shots, it’s 4 or 3 weeks between shots. Followed by two week immunity building period.


Not in British Columbia, they are waiting approximately 112 days between dose 1 and dose 2 at the moment.


----------



## DisneyMama811

Ensusieasm said:


> Not 4 months between shots, it’s 4 or 3 weeks between shots. Followed by two week immunity building period.


in my area of Ontario it's been more like 6 weeks between shots because they keep running out


----------



## wdwmom3

Ensusieasm said:


> Not 4 months between shots, it’s 4 or 3 weeks between shots. Followed by two week immunity building period.



In Ontario they are now doing shots 16 weeks apart.  Although I suspect that will be shortened.  Like the people getting their first shot now will have to wait 16 weeks (so July).  But I can see the people getting their first shots in June won’t have to wait that long because of increased supply and fewer people needing shots.


----------



## pigletto

So do we think they will open the border before everyone has their second shot, but only allow people with both shots to cross ? I hadn’t considered that possibility, but it makes sense.


----------



## wdwmom3

pigletto said:


> So do we think they will open the border before everyone has their second shot, but only allow people with both shots to cross ? I hadn’t considered that possibility, but it makes sense.



 Not sure.  You are protected after one shot.  The second shot is just a booster so we have long term protection.


----------



## Ensusieasm

wdwmom3 said:


> In Ontario they are now doing shots 16 weeks apart.  Although I suspect that will be shortened.  Like the people getting their first shot now will have to wait 16 weeks (so July).  But I can see the people getting their first shots in June won’t have to wait that long because of increased supply and fewer people needing shots.


Oh dear, I‘m sorry, didn’t notice I was on a Canada trip planning forum, and I also did not know that, in Canada, second shots are four months out.


----------



## pigletto

wdwmom3 said:


> Not sure.  You are protected after one shot.  The second shot is just a booster so we have long term protection.


Interesting.. I also hadn’t even considered they would let people over after one shot . So many unknowns at this point still.


----------



## wdwmom3

Ensusieasm said:


> Oh dear, I‘m sorry, didn’t notice I was on a Canada trip planning forum, and I also did not know that, in Canada, second shots are four months out.



Yep.  Since our doses have to come from Europe (the US isn’t allowing them to be exported) we have a much slower supply.   There is a lot of evidence that the shots can be spread out further then what was done in the trial.  So they are spreading out doses so more people can their first shot and be protected sooner.  

We have only started vaccinating people over 80.


----------



## ellbell

As Canadians we are all allowed to cross.  Only by air to leave but we can use the land and air border to return at anytime.  I think people are confusing the land border being closed as the border being completely closed.  If you don't fly back to Canada you don't even need to do hotel quarantine.


----------



## wdwmom3

ellbell said:


> As Canadians we are all allowed to cross.  Only by air to leave but we can use the land and air border to return at anytime.  I think people are confusing the land border being closed as the border being completely closed.  If you don't fly back to Canada you don't even need to do hotel quarantine.



I think many people here also want to follow the “spirit” of the closure.  They don’t want us taking vacations in other countries.   So yes there is a loophole but it’s not what’s intended.   It won’t be much longer.  I think we can all hold on a few months longer.  

And as far as your fly to Buffalo loophole.  I read not to long ago that New York State was trying to do things to avoid people doing that exact thing.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

mshanson3121 said:


> I'm thinking the July 4th date happens, but I do think you'll either have to show proof of vaccination or else quarantine for 14 days.


Haha so then most of us still won’t be able to go without quarantine 
On a serious note, I hope you’re right. Starting with a partial reopening would be something at least. Maybe it’ll be negative test or a vaccine. All these maybes but what else do we have to do right now but guess and speculate


----------



## DisneyMama811

wdwmom3 said:


> Yep.  Since our doses have to come from Europe (the US isn’t allowing them to be exported) we have a much slower supply.   There is a lot of evidence that the shots can be spread out further then what was done in the trial.  So they are spreading out doses so more people can their first shot and be protected sooner.
> 
> We have only started vaccinating people over 80.


Healthcare workers are also being vaccinated, that's how I got mine.


----------



## TLPL

Can someone tell me something I need to hear? 
I still have a trip for May long weekend booked. We are DVC members, resort stay booked with points (with deadline to bank by March 31). The flights are with Southwest, they are paid for with the flight credit from the cancelled trip last summer. They said we have to use it before May 31 or it will expire. I booked the trip last Christmas hoping in 5 months things will turn around. but it is less and less likely we will be able to go without going through all those loopholes and whatnot. I just I need to accept the fact that I will just have to lose that flight credit and cancel another holiday like everyone else. 

I just need to hear it from someone that it is not going to happen before I give up hope and cancel my trip.


----------



## damo

TLPL said:


> Can someone tell me something I need to hear?
> I still have a trip for May long weekend booked. We are DVC members, resort stay booked with points (with deadline to bank by March 31). The flights are with Southwest, they are paid for with the flight credit from the cancelled trip last summer. They said we have to use it before May 31 or it will expire. I booked the trip last Christmas hoping in 5 months things will turn around. but it is less and less likely we will be able to go without going through all those loopholes and whatnot. I just I need to accept the fact that I will just have to lose that flight credit and cancel another holiday like everyone else.
> 
> I just need to hear it from someone that it is not going to happen before I give up hope and cancel my trip.



I would contact Southwest again and see if they will extend it.


----------



## Minniemoo15

TLPL said:


> Can someone tell me something I need to hear?
> I still have a trip for May long weekend booked. We are DVC members, resort stay booked with points (with deadline to bank by March 31). The flights are with Southwest, they are paid for with the flight credit from the cancelled trip last summer. They said we have to use it before May 31 or it will expire. I booked the trip last Christmas hoping in 5 months things will turn around. but it is less and less likely we will be able to go without going through all those loopholes and whatnot. I just I need to accept the fact that I will just have to lose that flight credit and cancel another holiday like everyone else.
> 
> I just need to hear it from someone that it is not going to happen before I give up hope and cancel my trip.



I would sadly cancel and bank those DVC points for another year. The last thing you want is to lose them. It made me so sad to do that with our reservation as well, but now I have double the points for next year 

I would also try SW and see if they can do anything about extending your Credit. The worst they can say is no. Good luck !


----------



## TammyLynn33

TLPL said:


> Can someone tell me something I need to hear?
> I still have a trip for May long weekend booked. We are DVC members, resort stay booked with points (with deadline to bank by March 31). The flights are with Southwest, they are paid for with the flight credit from the cancelled trip last summer. They said we have to use it before May 31 or it will expire. I booked the trip last Christmas hoping in 5 months things will turn around. but it is less and less likely we will be able to go without going through all those loopholes and whatnot. I just I need to accept the fact that I will just have to lose that flight credit and cancel another holiday like everyone else.
> 
> I just need to hear it from someone that it is not going to happen before I give up hope and cancel my trip.



I’m so sorry. We are DVC too and haven’t yet been able to go. Had to rent our first years points . It sucks. We have Christmas booked and I hope ..


----------



## bgula

TLPL said:


> Can someone tell me something I need to hear?
> I still have a trip for May long weekend booked. We are DVC members, resort stay booked with points (with deadline to bank by March 31). The flights are with Southwest, they are paid for with the flight credit from the cancelled trip last summer. They said we have to use it before May 31 or it will expire. I booked the trip last Christmas hoping in 5 months things will turn around. but it is less and less likely we will be able to go without going through all those loopholes and whatnot. I just I need to accept the fact that I will just have to lose that flight credit and cancel another holiday like everyone else.
> 
> I just need to hear it from someone that it is not going to happen before I give up hope and cancel my trip.



After your flight credits expire, you can contact Southwest and ask them to convert them to vouchers.  The funds will then be good for another 6 months.  The only downside is that they take $100 from each person as a fee.  If you are going to go this route, I would suggest combining your credits into one credit.  If you have 2 different credits, say from one-way flights each way - they will take $100 from each credit you have.  Better to combine your credits into one, that way they only take $100 one time.  Hopefully that makes sense?


----------



## pigletto

There’s a good article on the CBC this morning that I won’t link because it does mention politicians. But if you look it up you will see that it says  that right now there really isn’t any plan for border reopening and there is a growing call to find out what the metrics or framework will be to get us there.

I don’t believe there is “no plan” Iike the title would suggest. Thats just to draw people in. I think there is probably not an official plan that they are willing to release yet. The call is growing for us all to know what that will be, which I am 100% in agreement with.  I have a feeling we will know more soon though as I’m seeing the topic come up more and more in media.


----------



## NewYKRunner

pigletto said:


> There’s a good article on the CBC this morning that I won’t link because it does mention politicians. But if you look it up you will see that it says  that right now there really isn’t any plan for border reopening and there is a growing call to find out what the metrics or framework will be to get us there.
> 
> I don’t believe there is “no plan” Iike the title would suggest. Thats just to draw people in. I think there is probably not an official plan that they are willing to release yet. The call is growing for us all to know what that will be, which I am 100% in agreement with.  I have a feeling we will know more soon though as I’m seeing the topic come up more and more in media.



I think the government(s) is/are waiting to see what happens with daily cases - on both sides of the border. I know at least one vaccine manufacturer has already said they’re adjusting the vaccine for one of the new variants. I’m sure they’re all working on the new variants. So that should really help with number and herd immunity that we’re aiming for.


----------



## TammyLynn33

pigletto said:


> There’s a good article on the CBC this morning that I won’t link because it does mention politicians. But if you look it up you will see that it says  that right now there really isn’t any plan for border reopening and there is a growing call to find out what the metrics or framework will be to get us there.
> 
> I don’t believe there is “no plan” Iike the title would suggest. Thats just to draw people in. I think there is probably not an official plan that they are willing to release yet. The call is growing for us all to know what that will be, which I am 100% in agreement with.  I have a feeling we will know more soon though as I’m seeing the topic come up more and more in media.



I think people are tired and frustrated . Tourism and people that survive on tourism are hurting . I think pressure is mounting..It will be deciding the hows, quarantines, vaccines ( people who can’t take vaccines  , children) quarantines.. I think the details will be the tough decisions
I think by end of summer .. that will keep Canadians safer, allow time for higher population to be vaccinated , see how variants play out .. and get us through a heavy tourism time with our domestic travellers .  That said it’s spring I wouldn’t think some of this would have to be announced soon .. even if it’s baby steps


----------



## TLPL

Isn't US vaccine rollout is going much faster then Canada? And Canada has lower cases to begin with? Doesn't it make it less urgent to keep the border closed? We can't keep the border closed forever, there will always be variants , just like Flu has every year,  It is impossible to get rid of COVID completely.


----------



## ottawamom

I think it would be safer to keep the border closed until the vaccine has been rolled out to everyone who wants a vaccine has had an opportunity to get their first shot. We still don't know if those vaccinated are able to spread the virus to others. At this stage, what's a few more months. Better to be safe than sorry.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

pigletto said:


> There’s a good article on the CBC this morning that I won’t link because it does mention politicians. But if you look it up you will see that it says  that right now there really isn’t any plan for border reopening and there is a growing call to find out what the metrics or framework will be to get us there.
> 
> I don’t believe there is “no plan” Iike the title would suggest. Thats just to draw people in. I think there is probably not an official plan that they are willing to release yet. The call is growing for us all to know what that will be, which I am 100% in agreement with.  I have a feeling we will know more soon though as I’m seeing the topic come up more and more in media.


I read this article too, honestly it offers no new info imo, it just so happens it’s been a year now and they are saying no plans to reopen. I agree that it just means no plan that we know of... I do also think that with summer travel season around the corner the government should update on the situation.
I could see things opening up sooner if we were in the same boat as the US now when it comes to the vaccinations but really because we have so few vaccinated in comparison I can’t see them open before Fall. At least not fully.  I totally agree with you, the pressure is building to provide an update.


----------



## pigletto

ottawamom said:


> I think it would be safer to keep the border closed until the vaccine has been rolled out to everyone who wants a vaccine has had an opportunity to get their first shot. We still don't know if those vaccinated are able to spread the virus to others. At this stage, what's a few more months. Better to be safe than sorry.


I don’t think anyone is in disagreement with waiting until its safest. Certainly not me. We do however have a right to know what the perimeters and conditions will be, and the article was discussing more transparency in that area specifically.


----------



## Susan2771

Getting the 1 shot Johnson Johnsoon vaccine would sure help with not needing a second vaccine to be able to travel, and everything else in life.  Hope those are coming in April


----------



## quandrea

Ensusieasm said:


> Not 4 months between shots, it’s 4 or 3 weeks between shots. Followed by two week immunity building period.


They are actually planning to space our shots by four months now.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

I was going to come here and say that the border is def not on JT's agenda of items to get going on any time soon. I read it on my travel blog I frequent.


----------



## Carolynleanne

Yeeeep. This is why we just plan to stay within Canada this year. As hard as that is for us!


----------



## mamaofsix

ellbell said:


> As Canadians we are all allowed to cross.  Only by air to leave but we can use the land and air border to return at anytime.  I think people are confusing the land border being closed as the border being completely closed.  If you don't fly back to Canada you don't even need to do hotel quarantine.


Right, but the whole point of this thread is to discuss the land border opening fully, not just for those who are flying across one way.  There are many of us who cannot afford to fly to Disney and must drive.

As the article at the beginning of the thread states, there are now systems in place where even if you do fly across and come back via the land border, you will need to both produce a negative COVID test and quarantine upon your return.


----------



## Sue M

mshanson3121 said:


> I'm thinking the July 4th date happens, but I do think you'll either have to show proof of vaccination or else quarantine for 14 days.


I’m not holding my breath for that one!  Especially with the big delay for 2nd dose.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

mamaofsix said:


> Right, but the whole point of this thread is to discuss the land border opening fully, not just for those who are flying across one way.  There are many of us who cannot afford to fly to Disney and must drive.
> 
> As the article at the beginning of the thread states, there are now systems in place where even if you do fly across and come back via the land border, you will need to both produce a negative COVID test and quarantine upon your return.


Also, to add to this - I think we are all talking about being able to actually cross freely (and safely) without jumping through a million hoops. 
I know there are ways to travel now but honestly when I look at all the steps you are required to take, loopholes or not I just can’t even think about it.


----------



## mamaofsix

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> Also, to add to this - I think we are all talking about being able to actually cross freely (and safely) without jumping through a million hoops.
> I know there are ways to travel now but honestly when I look at all the steps you are required to take, loopholes or not I just can’t even think about it.


Yes, exactly my thoughts.


----------



## ellbell

TLPL said:


> Can someone tell me something I need to hear?
> I still have a trip for May long weekend booked. We are DVC members, resort stay booked with points (with deadline to bank by March 31). The flights are with Southwest, they are paid for with the flight credit from the cancelled trip last summer. They said we have to use it before May 31 or it will expire. I booked the trip last Christmas hoping in 5 months things will turn around. but it is less and less likely we will be able to go without going through all those loopholes and whatnot. I just I need to accept the fact that I will just have to lose that flight credit and cancel another holiday like everyone else.
> 
> I just need to hear it from someone that it is not going to happen before I give up hope and cancel my trip.


You won't need to lose the flight credit


HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> Also, to add to this - I think we are all talking about being able to actually cross freely (and safely) without jumping through a million hoops.
> I know there are ways to travel now but honestly when I look at all the steps you are required to take, loopholes or not I just can’t even think about it.


There really aren't many hoops.  I would fly inyo buffalo regardless because I have credits.  I also don't drive so would need to be picked up or take  a bus home anyway.  I only added an uber ride.  The quarantine isn't new. I don't think that everyone does realize that the border isn't closed because everyone keeps saying the border is closed.  The LAND border is closed to casual travelers that don't live here and even then there is an exception if people are driving to Alaska.  From where I live it actually costs about the same to fly as it does to drive (unless more than 2 or 3 people are traveling which doesn't apply to everyone).  Specially with reduced airfare.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

ellbell said:


> You won't need to lose the flight credit
> 
> There really aren't many hoops.  I would fly inyo buffalo regardless because I have credits.  I also don't drive so would need to be picked up or take  a bus home anyway.  I only added an uber ride.  The quarantine isn't new. I don't think that everyone does realize that the border isn't closed because everyone keeps saying the border is closed.  The LAND border is closed to casual travelers that don't live here and even then there is an exception if people are driving to Alaska.  From where I live it actually costs about the same to fly as it does to drive (unless more than 2 or 3 people are traveling which doesn't apply to everyone).  Specially with reduced airfare.


Yeah, your situation doesn’t sound too bad but wouldn’t it be nice to drive across without anyone batting an eye - well except the usual border rules.
For most families the current restrictions rule out travel right now. I hope this will change by Fall. I mean it has to at some point.


----------



## mshanson3121

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> Yeah, your situation doesn’t sound too bad but wouldn’t it be nice to drive across without anyone batting an eye - well except the usual border rules.
> For most families the current restrictions rule out travel right now. I hope this will change by Fall. I mean it has to at some point.



Exactly. We're in NB - international travel is 100% ruled out for us because we would have to drive 3 hours to the nearest still-functioning airport and then fly to Toronto before we can get an international flight anywhere else - at a cost of $450 pp (or put in perspective $1800 for our family of 4), *just for the connecting flight.* And of course our land border is closed. So there is nowhere we can currently travel outside of Canada.

But of course for that matter, there is nowhere we can travel to within Canada, either, due to the mandatory 2-week quarantine upon return to our province.


----------



## mamaofsix

ellbell said:


> You won't need to lose the flight credit
> 
> There really aren't many hoops.  I would fly inyo buffalo regardless because I have credits.  I also don't drive so would need to be picked up or take  a bus home anyway.  I only added an uber ride.  The quarantine isn't new. I don't think that everyone does realize that the border isn't closed because everyone keeps saying the border is closed.  The LAND border is closed to casual travelers that don't live here and even then there is an exception if people are driving to Alaska.  From where I live it actually costs about the same to fly as it does to drive (unless more than 2 or 3 people are traveling which doesn't apply to everyone).  Specially with reduced airfare.


You left out the part of needing proof of a negative COVID test before you cross back in.  I wouldn't call having to quarantine for 2 weeks "not a hoop."  Especially for those who cannot work from home and have children that need to attend school.  

As you can likely tell from my handle, we are a family of 8.  So, no, it's definitely not the same cost to fly as it is to drive. We'd be looking at quadruple the price.   The land border is closed when you can only cross it one way. 

This thread is a "watch thread" for when things open up to the point where most of us can get across.


----------



## ellbell

mamaofsix said:


> You left out the part of needing proof of a negative COVID test before you cross back in.  I wouldn't call having to quarantine for 2 weeks "not a hoop."  Especially for those who cannot work from home and have children that need to attend school.
> 
> As you can likely tell from my handle, we are a family of 8.  So, no, it's definitely not the same cost to fly as it is to drive. We'd be looking at quadruple the price.   The land border is closed when you can only cross it one way.
> 
> This thread is a "watch thread" for when things open up to the point where most of us can get across.


I get that it isn't the same for everyone.  Bit to completely dismiss ehat I was saying because it doesn't apply to everyone wasn't fair either.  Some people don't know the border is actually open.  Some people don't consider the tests a hoop.  I've done the 2 week quarantine 3 times and had 4 different tests.  Those things aren't hoops for me.  Everyone is different, and people saying the border is closed can be misleading.


----------



## Donald - my hero

*just a quick reminder to keep this thread on topic so that it doesn't get shut down like others have recently.  I believe that this thread is about when the land border will be fully open for anyone to simply drive either direction.  Talking about how the border isn't "Technically" closed due to being able to fly is what got at least 2 threads locked.  

I get it,  everyone's tired and tempers are short.  However once people start feeling unheard, discussions tend to become heated and go off topic.  

in my mind this thread was started as a place to talk about when the land border will be fully open  and what that will look like.  Not open to return as it has always been but open BOTH directions for anyone to use whenever they want to use it. 


ETA i remember years ago crossing at Fort Erie with our youngest after we'd dropped her brother off at summer camp. We were heading to sesame place with a newly potty trained 3 year old (food allergies made that he'll!). About 5 minutes past the point of no return traffic stopped and we were in the same spot for close to 5 hours due to an accident between 2 transport trucks and a small car.   several trips to the ditch later we finally made it to the customs booth, one look at my face and the screaming kid in the backseat had the guard waving us thru in under a minute. 
I can't imagine how long those lines will be once they open up!!!! Maybe a bag of Depends will be packed  sorry,  my mind goes to weird places!!*


----------



## NewYKRunner

Donald - my hero said:


> *ETA i remember years ago crossing at Fort Erie with our youngest after we'd dropped her brother off at summer camp. We were heading to sesame place with a newly potty trained 3 year old (food allergies made that he'll!). About 5 minutes past the point of no return traffic stopped and we were in the same spot for close to 5 hours due to an accident between 2 transport trucks and a small car.   several trips to the ditch later we finally made it to the customs booth, one look at my face and the screaming kid in the backseat had the guard waving us thru in under a minute.
> I can't imagine how long those lines will be once they open up!!!! Maybe a bag of Depends will be packed  sorry,  my mind goes to weird places!!*


We've definitely experienced similar travelling as a young family.  Coming back from Orlando last January, we got into Calgary at about 2 am thanks to a very long delay.  As usual, customs questioned our kids (5 and 9 at the time).  Our kids travel great, even at 2 am, but our 5 year old could only confirm we were her parents.  She could not remember when her birthday was, or what time of year it occurs.  Customs simply waved us through .
We live in a fairly remote area and we've wondered if gas stations in our area will be low on fuel with everyone bolting out for a road trip as soon as borders open up.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

Donald - my hero said:


> *just a quick reminder to keep this thread on topic so that it doesn't get shut down like others have recently.  I believe that this thread is about when the land border will be fully open for anyone to simply drive either direction.  Talking about how the border isn't "Technically" closed due to being able to fly is what got at least 2 threads locked.
> 
> I get it,  everyone's tired and tempers are short.  However once people start feeling unheard, discussions tend to become heated and go off topic.
> 
> in my mind this thread was started as a place to talk about when the land border will be fully open  and what that will look like.  Not open to return as it has always been but open BOTH directions for anyone to use whenever they want to use it.
> 
> 
> ETA i remember years ago crossing at Fort Erie with our youngest after we'd dropped her brother off at summer camp. We were heading to sesame place with a newly potty trained 3 year old (food allergies made that he'll!). About 5 minutes past the point of no return traffic stopped and we were in the same spot for close to 5 hours due to an accident between 2 transport trucks and a small car.   several trips to the ditch later we finally made it to the customs booth, one look at my face and the screaming kid in the backseat had the guard waving us thru in under a minute.
> I can't imagine how long those lines will be once they open up!!!! Maybe a bag of Depends will be packed  sorry,  my mind goes to weird places!!*


I think the lines will be insane... someone said on one of these threads (maybe this one) that we’ll have to cross at 3 AM lol. if we are driving to Disney we typically will cross early about 7 AM but hey I’ll do whatever. Just crossing for a day shopping trip though... especially on the weekend... shall be fun. Haha


----------



## ottawamom

I've got to admit I do have a trip to Joann fabrics planned when the borders open again. The prices of fabrics in Ottawa fabric stores is just insane. If I keep it uner $50 the guards will let me slide through on a day trip.


----------



## Donald - my hero

ottawamom said:


> I've got to admit I do have a trip to Joann fabrics planned when the borders open again. The prices of fabrics in Ottawa fabric stores is just insane. If I keep it uner $50 the guards will let me slide through on a day trip.


*you need to make a trip to a lens mill,  seriously,  you'd get lost in the fabric section for hours!

ETA, noticed you're commenting on prices,  give me an idea of the type you're looking for and I'll give you some idea of pricing.  *


----------



## ottawamom

I'm going to google lens mill and see how far it is to the nearest one. Not sure I can wait until the border opens.


----------



## juniorbugman

ottawamom said:


> I'm going to google lens mill and see how far it is to the nearest one. Not sure I can wait until the border opens.


I ordered online from Lens Mill and I know when the stores were closed that you could call the store and they would tour the store and show you what they had.


----------



## Donald - my hero

ottawamom said:


> I'm going to google lens mill and see how far it is to the nearest one. Not sure I can wait until the border opens.





juniorbugman said:


> I ordered online from Lens Mill and I know when the stores were closed that you could call the store and they would tour the store and show you what they had.


*closest store to you would probably be Barrie BUT as mentioned you can have your order shipped. Now they even have a Facebook Messenger account for each store and they will have someone wander around the store with you while doing a video chat.

Current flyer shows that from Thursday to Saturday every single piece of fabric that has even a speck of green is another 20% off
Here's the current flyer 
Len's Mill Flyer*


----------



## tinkerone

NewYKRunner said:


> We've definitely experienced similar travelling as a young family.  Coming back from Orlando last January, we got into Calgary at about 2 am thanks to a very long delay.  As usual, customs questioned our kids (5 and 9 at the time).  Our kids travel great, even at 2 am, but our 5 year old could only confirm we were her parents.  She could not remember when her birthday was, or what time of year it occurs.  Customs simply waved us through .
> We live in a fairly remote area and we've wondered if gas stations in our area will be low on fuel with everyone bolting out for a road trip as soon as borders open up.





Donald - my hero said:


> *just a quick reminder to keep this thread on topic so that it doesn't get shut down like others have recently.  I believe that this thread is about when the land border will be fully open for anyone to simply drive either direction.  Talking about how the border isn't "Technically" closed due to being able to fly is what got at least 2 threads locked.
> 
> I get it,  everyone's tired and tempers are short.  However once people start feeling unheard, discussions tend to become heated and go off topic.
> 
> in my mind this thread was started as a place to talk about when the land border will be fully open  and what that will look like.  Not open to return as it has always been but open BOTH directions for anyone to use whenever they want to use it.
> 
> 
> ETA i remember years ago crossing at Fort Erie with our youngest after we'd dropped her brother off at summer camp. We were heading to sesame place with a newly potty trained 3 year old (food allergies made that he'll!). About 5 minutes past the point of no return traffic stopped and we were in the same spot for close to 5 hours due to an accident between 2 transport trucks and a small car.   several trips to the ditch later we finally made it to the customs booth, one look at my face and the screaming kid in the backseat had the guard waving us thru in under a minute.
> I can't imagine how long those lines will be once they open up!!!! Maybe a bag of Depends will be packed  sorry,  my mind goes to weird places!!*


I can give you a good border crossing with a child one.  When our oldest was 5 we decided that we would take a drive to WDW and have a bit of a fall vacation.  He was a really good traveler so we had not worries with a 26 hour drive.  When we got to the border the border security agent questioned us and asked if we would be leaving anything behind.  I said 'yes', pointed to the back seat and said 'him'.  Hubby laughed, I laughed, the agent said 'pull over'.  That's when I learned they didn't have a sense of humor, lol.  
And before anyone says they were only doing their job, I know.  It just fell out of my mouth though, lesson learned.


----------



## NewYKRunner

tinkerone said:


> Hubby laughed, I laughed, the agent said 'pull over'.  That's when I learned they didn't have a sense of humor, lol.
> And before anyone says they were only doing their job, I know.  It just fell out of my mouth though, lesson learned.



Haha they do not mess around when it comes to children!  I have an old boss that warned me about that.  He was divorced and even with all paperwork they were always thoroughly questioned when travelling internationally (without his ex/their biological mom).


----------



## TammyLynn33

As a CDN mom whose kids were taken across the border and not returned as per custody agreement . Nothing makes me happier to hear this.  Once they get across all those papers mean nothing, no one will enforce anything unless they believe there’s imminent danger.


----------



## TammyLynn33

So on CNN last night they were talking about Ontario’s new spike in cases. This am they are discussing Europe’s rise and lack of vaccine. They are noticing . Which scares me it will be a wait..


----------



## mshanson3121

TammyLynn33 said:


> So on CNN last night they were talking about Ontario’s new spike in cases. This am they are discussing Europe’s rise and lack of vaccine. They are noticing . Which scares me it will be a wait..



I noticed that our cases are starting to rise again, while the US' are still declining. I wonder, is it just the "spring break spike" for us?


----------



## hdrolfe

Ontario is talking a 3rd wave. The US is saying once their people are immunized (May-ish) they'll consider where to send their vaccines and of course some of them are pushing for it to be to Canada & Mexico so the borders can be reopened. I guess we'll see?


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

NewYKRunner said:


> Haha they do not mess around when it comes to children!  I have an old boss that warned me about that.  He was divorced and even with all paperwork they were always thoroughly questioned when travelling internationally (without his ex/their biological mom).


I traveled internationally in 2018 with just my son almost 9 at the time, my husband was not able to come on a cruise with us, and I ended up going my by myself. My friend who is divorced told me even though my husband and I are together to make sure I bring a letter from him saying as our son’s dad he is aware we are leaving the country. I had all this stuff in a folder with me but officer at the US/Canada border asked zero questions about our son. Not a single one. It was surprising  to me because I don’t have the same last name as my kids, I kept my maiden name for work/licensing purposes. I don’t know at which point they question more, I’m sure they usually do. I never had to show a single document though and my son was not questioned. I know I’m the kid’s mom and my DH was aware but to be honest I was a bit... I don’t know, not impressed?
edited to add: I wasn’t asked for anything coming back to Canada either.
I also have a funny story when he was younger maybe 2.5 years old, we were crossing at the border to go shopping and when the border officer asked to roll down the back window - my kid loudly exclaimed “I have to go poop”! the officer actually burst out laughing


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

TammyLynn33 said:


> So on CNN last night they were talking about Ontario’s new spike in cases. This am they are discussing Europe’s rise and lack of vaccine. They are noticing . Which scares me it will be a wait..


Yes, I read that a while ago - while USA’s cases are now declining we are rising due to lack of vaccine progress (in comparison)
I do believe it will be Fall when Canada is vaccinated, same with the US and cases are not rising on either side anymore. Sigh... I was hoping for summer but deep inside even being the optimist I am, I don’t see it.


----------



## hdrolfe

I always take the long form birth certificate when we travel since there is no dad here (used a donor). I've been asked for it twice in 7 or 8 trips? Always when returning to the country. Never when I leave. It's weird? But whatever, I always have it. It's a big topic in some of the groups I'm in for single moms by choice and always varied answers on how often people get asked for proof.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

hdrolfe said:


> Ontario is talking a 3rd wave. The US is saying once their people are immunized (May-ish) they'll consider where to send their vaccines and of course some of them are pushing for it to be to Canada & Mexico so the borders can be reopened. I guess we'll see?


Hmm I wonder if they will send some out way?


----------



## wdwmom3

TammyLynn33 said:


> As a CDN mom whose kids were taken across the border and not returned as per custody agreement . Nothing makes me happier to hear this.  Once they get across all those papers mean nothing, no one will enforce anything unless they believe there’s imminent danger.



Unfortunately they don’t always ask questions.  I travel all the time just me and my kids.  My kids are from my previous marriage.   I always carried the proper letters and now our court order that specifically gives me the right to travel without dad’s permission (he’s never had an issue with me taking the kids places). I’ve only been asked for the information once.  

As a mom that bugs me.  They should be taking things like that more seriously to avoid issues like the one you had.   Sorry you had to deal with that.  

And a note to other parents.  A lot of people don’t know this, but even if there are no custody issues for example you and the other parent are happily married, if you cross the border with your kids and not the other parent you should have a letter that is notarized.


----------



## samsteele

hdrolfe said:


> Always when returning to the country. Never when I leave. It's weird? But whatever, I always have it.


This. I used to travel with my sister-in-law and niece to WDW and we always had the form signed by my brother. Never asked when leaving Canada. Always asked to see it when returning. Always flew through Toronto YYZ.

A few years ago, I was in a multiple hour wait at the Thousand Islands Bridge. Thankfully, I noticed the heavier traffic on the 401 exit to the crossing and stopped at duty free for a bathroom break. It was in early November and I didn't do my homework. I didn't know that it was a favourite day for Ontario and Quebec snowbirds to cross because of either healthcare coverage or days out of Canada allowance. I had a flight that evening out of Syracuse and that was a worry. After that, I made sure to stay overnight in Syracuse and fly out early the next morning.


----------



## SaraMc

I think until the vaccine has been given to more Canadians the border will remain the same


----------



## wdwmom3

SaraMc said:


> I think until the vaccine has been given to more Canadians the border will remain the same



Agreed.  But I’m interested to see if they will wait until people have both shots.  Or just one?  Because if it’s just one we could see things starting to change by late summer.


----------



## TommyJK

wdwmom3 said:


> Agreed.  But I’m interested to see if they will wait until people have both shots.  Or just one?  Because if it’s just one we could see things starting to change by late summer.



I don't think it will be based on how many people are vaccinated - not directly at least.

I think it will come down to case rates.  Once both sides hit a consistently low positivity rate of infections will likely dictate when the border re-opens.  And to get the case rate down for a prolonged/consistent period of time more people need to get vaccinated.

Unless of couse they setup a rule that you can't cross unless you have been vaccinated (either with first shot or fully vaccinated) but I don't think they are going to go that route IMO.


----------



## Juventus

We are up to 120000 doses administered per day which is nice (compared to where we were), but at that rate that's about 2% of population per week which puts us at around 37% population with one shot by end of June (really rough math...).  That's about 14 million people, and we have about that many people above the age of 50 in Canada.  Would that be enough to open the border?

I would like to see 200000 vaccinations per day...about on par per capita with The States' 2 000 000 per day.


----------



## wdwmom3

Juventus said:


> We are up to 120000 doses administered per day which is nice (compared to where we were), but at that rate that's about 2% of population per week which puts us at around 37% population with one shot by end of June (really rough math...).  That's about 14 million people, and we have about that many people above the age of 50 in Canada.  Would that be enough to open the border?
> 
> I would like to see 200000 vaccinations per day...about on par per capita with The States' 2 000 000 per day.



I think we will get there.   Supply is increasing and they just opened some larger clinics in the Toronto area.


----------



## TommyJK

Juventus said:


> We are up to 120000 doses administered per day which is nice (compared to where we were), but at that rate that's about 2% of population per week which puts us at around 37% population with one shot by end of June (really rough math...).  That's about 14 million people, and we have about that many people above the age of 50 in Canada.  Would that be enough to open the border?
> 
> I would like to see 200000 vaccinations per day...about on par per capita with The States' 2 000 000 per day.



Your numbers assume that the number per day remains static and the rate of vaccination remains linear.  But delivery numbers are expected to increase greatly starting next week.

Currently, Pfizer is deliving 444,600 per week.  That shoots up to 1,194,570 starting next week and stay at that rate roughly through mid May.  Moderna delivered 466,800 this week but next week it nearlty doubles to 846,000.

So as supply continues to increase, doses administered per day/week will shoot up as well. 

Ontario alone has the _ability_ to administer 1 million per week, we just need greater supply and based on the forecasts of deliveries Ontario will be getting almost 800,000 doses per week starting as of next week (edit - and that is just pfizer & moderna.  I don't have numbers for Astrazeneca or J&J expected deliveries).  If both the delivery numbers and how many people we can vaccinate per week are correct, it means that Ontario in theory could get every single adult their first shot by mid June (or potentially sooner if we factor in Astrazeneca and J&J)


----------



## Juventus

Yes, I realize numbers will go up.  I'm hoping to see 200 000 per day...I feel that may give us a shot of things opening up a bit this summer.


----------



## pigletto

I disagree . I think it will be based on vaccines as long as it’s determined you can’t  spread Covid as a vaccinated person. It’s a way to open things slowly and take a measured approach . The border closure is doing significant damage to our economy and trade and I do think once there is a way to manage transmission they will slowly ease restrictions. That’s just my opinion though.


Juventus said:


> We are up to 120000 doses administered per day which is nice (compared to where we were), but at that rate that's about 2% of population per week which puts us at around 37% population with one shot by end of June (really rough math...).  That's about 14 million people, and we have about that many people above the age of 50 in Canada.  Would that be enough to open the border?
> 
> I would like to see 200000 vaccinations per day...about on par per capita with The States' 2 000 000 per day.


----------



## NewYKRunner

139,000 vaccinations today!  It’s getting better


----------



## azrivest

pigletto said:


> I disagree . I think it will be based on vaccines as long as it’s determined you can’t  spread Covid as a vaccinated person.



I keep hearing that they don't know yet if the vaccine will prevent transmission as well as preventing major illnesses, which made me doubtful for a reopening anytime soon. So if the evidence is pointing towards it preventing transmission as well, that would be great news!


----------



## TommyJK

azrivest said:


> I keep hearing that they don't know yet if the vaccine will prevent transmission as well as preventing major illnesses, which made me doubtful for a reopening anytime soon. So if the evidence is pointing towards it preventing transmission as well, that would be great news!



The evidence so far is that the vaccines indeed seem to do a good job on preventing transmission.  Studies out of Isreal (highest vaccinated country) are pointing to this.  These findings still need to be peer reviewed though.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/pfize...ptomatic-transmission-covid/story?id=76389615


----------



## Susan2771

I wonder who the sources are, and how close they are to the administration.  

Biden eyes mid-May to begin relaxing Covid travel restrictions (cnbc.com)


----------



## pigletto

It does say a senior admin official. So it’s not just Johnny who sells newspapers on the corner lol. So a “sea change” in mid May will be the start of things. Interesting.


----------



## TammyLynn33

Just announced one more month closure on CP24


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

I can't see Canada opening to the US in May. Heck, they shutdown the cruise ship season in February and it only runs from May/June to Sept/Oct and won't let them even just make technical stops to get to Alaska.  Biden is dreaming.


----------



## wdwmom3

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> I can't see Canada opening to the US in May. Heck, they shutdown the cruise ship season in February and it only runs from May/June to Sept/Oct and won't let them even just make technical stops to get to Alaska.  Biden is dreaming.



I didn’t read the article sorry.  Did it specifically mention our border? Or could they be loosening other restrictions?


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Talks about US, Mexico, Canada...

The Biden administration is looking toward the middle of May to relax restrictions on travel across the borders with Mexico and Canada and on inbound international travel from the U.K., Europe and Brazil, according to two sources familiar with the matter.


----------



## TommyJK

wdwmom3 said:


> I didn’t read the article sorry.  Did it specifically mention our border? Or could they be loosening other restrictions?



Article speaks to Canada, US, and Mexico borders as well as about oversease.  While the US Admin might be eyeing mid-may, the article does go into detail with the following as it relates to Canada:

"At the northern border, one official said, *Canada has been requesting the U.S. keep the border closed until citizens there can get access to vaccines*. In a joint communique following a bilateral meeting in late February, Biden and Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said they “agreed to take a coordinated approach based on science and public health criteria when considering measures to ease Canada-U.S. border restrictions in the future.”

So key is that It probably won't be until at least mid-june when *all *of Canada will just start to have access to vaccines, and still a while after that until much of the 18-50 age demo actually gets vaccinated.  So while the US admin might be eyeing mid-may, I honestly don't see it happeneing until mid to late summer at the absolute earliest.


----------



## NewYKRunner

TommyJK said:


> Article speaks to Canada, US, and Mexico borders as well as about oversease.  While the US Admin might be eyeing mid-may, the article does go into detail with the following as it relates to Canada:
> 
> "At the northern border, one official said, *Canada has been requesting the U.S. keep the border closed until citizens there can get access to vaccines*. In a joint communique following a bilateral meeting in late February, Biden and Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said they “agreed to take a coordinated approach based on science and public health criteria when considering measures to ease Canada-U.S. border restrictions in the future.”
> 
> So key is that It probably won't be until at least mid-june when *all *of Canada will just start to have access to vaccines, and still a while after that until much of the 18-50 age demo actually gets vaccinated.  So while the US admin might be eyeing mid-may, I honestly don't see it happeneing until mid to late summer at the absolute earliest.



Could all be part of the negotiations between the countries which resulted in Mexico and Canada getting 4 million doses from the US


----------



## ellbell

NewYKRunner said:


> Could all be part of the negotiations between the countries which resulted in Mexico and Canada getting 4 million doses from the US


I believe this will definitely be partof the contract and negotiations.


----------



## NewYKRunner

NewYKRunner said:


> 139,000 vaccinations today!  It’s getting better



156,332 today


----------



## Carolynleanne

Well, for those of us in BC, Bonnie Henry just today said international travel is out for the entire year  I don't get how they can call that THIS far ahead, but I'm pretty annoyed about it.


----------



## NewYKRunner

Carolynleanne said:


> Well, for those of us in BC, Bonnie Henry just today said international travel is out for the entire year  I don't get how they can call that THIS far ahead, but I'm pretty annoyed about it.



Just go East one province then down .


----------



## darwinsrule

Carolynleanne said:


> Well, for those of us in BC, Bonnie Henry just today said international travel is out for the entire year  I don't get how they can call that THIS far ahead, but I'm pretty annoyed about it.



Plan for the worst, hope for the best.  After the last year you probably have better odds buying a lottery ticket than predicting what we are going to be dealing with 6 months from now, let alone 9.  As Dory says, JUST KEEP SWIMMING.


----------



## wdwmom3

Carolynleanne said:


> Well, for those of us in BC, Bonnie Henry just today said international travel is out for the entire year  I don't get how they can call that THIS far ahead, but I'm pretty annoyed about it.



They can’t say that for certain.


----------



## von Monster

wdwmom3 said:


> They can’t say that for certain.



They really can't say it at all being as border controls and quarantines are a federal jurisdictional issue.

Add in we're in the first quarter of the year it seems premature to say the least.


----------



## bcwife76

Carolynleanne said:


> Well, for those of us in BC, Bonnie Henry just today said international travel is out for the entire year  I don't get how they can call that THIS far ahead, but I'm pretty annoyed about it.


She and Adrian Dix have been saying this all along, he was quoted as saying this exact same thing about 2 weeks ago. As someone else pointed out, they have no authority over when the US/CAN border opens so really, just take it with a grain of salt. They are also accelerating our vaccine schedule here in BC so in 6 months, things will look very different I think.


----------



## Carolynleanne

bcwife76 said:


> She and Adrian Dix have been saying this all along, he was quoted as saying this exact same thing about 2 weeks ago. As someone else pointed out, they have no authority over when the US/CAN border opens so really, just take it with a grain of salt. They are also accelerating our vaccine schedule here in BC so in 6 months, things will look very different I think.



Good reminder. Honestly, it just felt like she was threatening us all today. Not impressed  I also found it very odd and almost contradictory. If we will all be vaccinated by early Fall, why shouldn't we be able to travel??


----------



## bcwife76

Carolynleanne said:


> Good reminder. Honestly, it just felt like she was threatening us all today. Not impressed  I also found it very odd and almost contradictory. If we will all be vaccinated by early Fall, why shouldn't we be able to travel??


When they keep on about international travel not happening here I always think two things:

1: I don't really consider US international. Yes, it's not domestic but they are right next door, on the same continent lol I think CAN/US travel will start up a lot sooner than international.
2: I think they are also saying that we won't be allowing international (as in overseas) visitors here in Canada this year. 

This is her quote from today:
"“Things like international travel, international gatherings, large festivals that have people coming from multiple places are not likely to happen this year. Cruise ships coming into B.C. are not going to happen this year either,” Henry said. " Definitely more doom and gloom than her usual 'cheery' self but I guess realistic too. So I wouldn't write off travel to the US or Mexico for this year entirely but yes, nothing off the continent at least.


----------



## Carolynleanne

bcwife76 said:


> When they keep on about international travel not happening here I always think two things:
> 
> 1: I don't really consider US international. Yes, it's not domestic but they are right next door, on the same continent lol I think CAN/US travel will start up a lot sooner than international.
> 2: I think they are also saying that we won't be allowing international (as in overseas) visitors here in Canada this year.
> 
> This is her quote from today:
> "“Things like international travel, international gatherings, large festivals that have people coming from multiple places are not likely to happen this year. Cruise ships coming into B.C. are not going to happen this year either,” Henry said. " Definitely more doom and gloom than her usual 'cheery' self but I guess realistic too. So I wouldn't write off travel to the US or Mexico for this year entirely but yes, nothing off the continent at least.



I definitely put international travel to include USA, but I really hope YOU are right, haha!


----------



## quandrea

Carolynleanne said:


> Well, for those of us in BC, Bonnie Henry just today said international travel is out for the entire year  I don't get how they can call that THIS far ahead, but I'm pretty annoyed about it.


So depressing....I’m about at the end of my rope. We’ve done well thus far, but things are starting to fall apart in my home. To be told that all of 2021 is a write off and it’s only March is truly discouraging. It’s getting harder and harder to maintain morale in my kids. Big sigh .......


----------



## sweethannah

bcwife76 said:


> When they keep on about international travel not happening here I always think two things:
> 
> 1: I don't really consider US international. Yes, it's not domestic but they are right next door, on the same continent lol I think CAN/US travel will start up a lot sooner than international.
> 2: I think they are also saying that we won't be allowing international (as in overseas) visitors here in Canada this year.
> 
> This is her quote from today:
> "“Things like international travel, international gatherings, large festivals that have people coming from multiple places are not likely to happen this year. Cruise ships coming into B.C. are not going to happen this year either,” Henry said. " Definitely more doom and gloom than her usual 'cheery' self but I guess realistic too. So I wouldn't write off travel to the US or Mexico for this year entirely but yes, nothing off the continent at least.





Carolynleanne said:


> I definitely put international travel to include USA, but I really hope YOU are right, haha!





quandrea said:


> So depressing....I’m about at the end of my rope. We’ve done well thus far, but things are starting to fall apart in my home. To be told that all of 2021 is a write off and it’s only March is truly discouraging. It’s getting harder and harder to maintain morale in my kids. Big sigh .......




Hello fellow BC DIS friends. 

I feel your pain. I've slowly and tentatively started thinking about travel again. DH thinks Fall is a possibility however I'm not going to get my hopes up; with limited time off from school and it being DD's grad year I'm not comfortable taking an extended holiday. At this point I'm looking at 2022 as a _balls to the wall_ Grad trip for DD.


----------



## cari12

TommyJK said:


> Your numbers assume that the number per day remains static and the rate of vaccination remains linear.  But delivery numbers are expected to increase greatly starting next week.
> 
> Currently, Pfizer is deliving 444,600 per week.  That shoots up to 1,194,570 starting next week and stay at that rate roughly through mid May.  Moderna delivered 466,800 this week but next week it nearlty doubles to 846,000.
> 
> So as supply continues to increase, doses administered per day/week will shoot up as well.
> 
> Ontario alone has the _ability_ to administer 1 million per week, we just need greater supply and based on the forecasts of deliveries Ontario will be getting almost 800,000 doses per week starting as of next week (edit - and that is just pfizer & moderna.  I don't have numbers for Astrazeneca or J&J expected deliveries).  If both the delivery numbers and how many people we can vaccinate per week are correct, it means that Ontario in theory could get every single adult their first shot by mid June (or potentially sooner if we factor in Astrazeneca and J&J)



Yesterday the BC PHO said that everyone in BC 18 and over should be able to get 1st shot by end of June based on projected supply so far. If it increases then it would be even faster.


----------



## cari12

Carolynleanne said:


> Good reminder. Honestly, it just felt like she was threatening us all today. Not impressed  I also found it very odd and almost contradictory. If we will all be vaccinated by early Fall, why shouldn't we be able to travel??



I think they are concerned not so much about the USA with international travel but overseas countries. Many other countries do not have access to enough vaccine to have all their people vaccinated as quickly as Canada and the US so I believe they are referring to this fact when talking about international travel.


----------



## NewYKRunner

NewYKRunner said:


> 139,000 vaccinations today!  It’s getting better





NewYKRunner said:


> 156,332 today



And 162,984 today!  Definitely a good trend. I’ll stop posting daily vaccinations given now.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

quandrea said:


> So depressing....I’m about at the end of my rope. We’ve done well thus far, but things are starting to fall apart in my home. To be told that all of 2021 is a write off and it’s only March is truly discouraging. It’s getting harder and harder to maintain morale in my kids. Big sigh .......


I hear you completely, I try to keep the morale high in our family but it’s becoming harder and harder. We should be at the end of this, and in Ontario the are rumours of a third strict lockdown, even schools closing again. I am normally an optimist but this pandemic made me more of a realistic and skeptic even. Things are also starting to fall apart in my house, can’t even answer our kids with what our summer plans will be. I am grateful my family is healthy and well, because in the end health is the most important thing we have... but it’s hard to watch our kids change from happy and easy going to anxious and discouraged. We are ALL very tired. I can see the light at the end of the Covid tunnel but we probably have a few more months of this limbo. Just know we are in this together and there are lots of great people here to listen and help plan those vacations together


----------



## quandrea

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> I hear you completely, I try to keep the morale high in our family but it’s becoming harder and harder. We should be at the end of this, and in Ontario the are rumours of a third strict lockdown, even schools closing again. I am normally an optimist but this pandemic made me more of a realistic and skeptic even. Things are also starting to fall apart in my house, can’t even answer our kids with what our summer plans will be. I am grateful my family is healthy and well, because in the end health is the most important thing we have... but it’s hard to watch our kids change from happy and easy going to anxious and discouraged. We are ALL very tired. I can see the light at the end of the Covid tunnel but we probably have a few more months of this limbo. Just know we are in this together and there are lots of great people here to listen and help plan those vacations together


Thanks. It’s been a tough few weeks. My oldest daughter is very troubled. She is a high performance athlete who hasn’t been in the pool in a year. It’s eating away at her soul. Swimming is her identity and she is lost without it. Online school has been horrible this year. She is incredibly stressed, and without swimming to relieve the stress. She’s done not too badly until a month or so ago. We are talking, but it’s scary to see her struggle. She’s never been a kid to have any hint of emotional trouble. The situation angers me. I’m opening our pool on Friday and buying her a wetsuit so she can start swimming again. The backyard pool isn’t enough—she’s used to swimming 10k a day—but it’s something. This mess can’t end soon enough.

Back to the topic—we are hoping for February 2022 travel to WDW. Hopefully the boarder is open by then!


----------



## Juventus

NewYKRunner said:


> And 162,984 today!  Definitely a good trend. I’ll stop posting daily vaccinations given now.


I think hitting a 200 000 day would require an update!


----------



## TammyLynn33

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> I hear you completely, I try to keep the morale high in our family but it’s becoming harder and harder. We should be at the end of this, and in Ontario the are rumours of a third strict lockdown, even schools closing again. I am normally an optimist but this pandemic made me more of a realistic and skeptic even. Things are also starting to fall apart in my house, can’t even answer our kids with what our summer plans will be. I am grateful my family is healthy and well, because in the end health is the most important thing we have... but it’s hard to watch our kids change from happy and easy going to anxious and discouraged. We are ALL very tired. I can see the light at the end of the Covid tunnel but we probably have a few more months of this limbo. Just know we are in this together and there are lots of great people here to listen and help plan those vacations together



Relatable in this house. I think the biggest thing is sons college wouldn’t defer him last year and honestly Peel is in no better position at the moment and we just had to pay his residence deposit yesterday.  He has no idea if he’s coming or going right now. First years were online in Sept  and in person in Jan. I keep hearing the universities are all hurting for money and may go no matter what it’s terrifying .  But honestly it’s the more not knowing . He’s def not who he used to be .. hie spark is gone, praying it’s temporary . 
DD14 lost it when her brother had to be tested and she had to stay home 23 hours. She’s saying she can’t make it through another lockdown and this is something I can’t as a parent fix. That said I did convince her things would be better now because if the weather and we.can get outside more . ( I just feel burnt out so I have to find the energy to do so) 
We do have a couple mini-getaways in May and June camping so I’ve used those to entice them to keep going . And we are still banking on Xmas at Disney.. I don’t know what would happen to all of our morale of we have to cancel yet again ..


----------



## quandrea

TammyLynn33 said:


> Relatable in this house. I think the biggest thing is sons college wouldn’t defer him last year and honestly Peel is in no better position at the moment and we just had to pay his residence deposit yesterday.  He has no idea if he’s coming or going right now. First years were online in Sept  and in person in Jan. I keep hearing the universities are all hurting for money and may go no matter what it’s terrifying .  But honestly it’s the more not knowing . He’s def not who he used to be .. hie spark is gone, praying it’s temporary .
> DD14 lost it when her brother had to be tested and she had to stay home 23 hours. She’s saying she can’t make it through another lockdown and this is something I can’t as a parent fix. That said I did convince her things would be better now because if the weather and we.can get outside more . ( I just feel burnt out so I have to find the energy to do so)
> We do have a couple mini-getaways in May and June camping so I’ve used those to entice them to keep going . And we are still banking on Xmas at Disney.. I don’t know what would happen to all of our morale of we have to cancel yet again ..


Hang in there!  Let’s all keep talking so we can power through and be a resource to our families.


----------



## NewYKRunner

To those struggling I can relate even though we don’t have the lockdowns some have seen other than a minor lockdown a year ago. After Christmas we were getting really frustrated with everything and kids were driving us nuts. January 28 we found out our 10 year old daughter had a mass in her abdomen during a completely unrelated appointment and her white blood cell count was off. At first they were thinking her colon or uterus. A bunch of test were fast tracked and off to the Stollery for us. A CT scan there showed a 10cm ovarian dermoid cyst - they can sometimes be cancer. 10 days after surgery the pathology report showed it was benign. We are still waiting on one tumour marker to return to normal. I can tell you that was 3 weeks of hell waiting to find out if your daughter has cancer while the rest of the world carried on - and her sister and my mom who flew over to help couldn’t visit her while she was in the hospital. We did not care at all about the pandemic at that point. Im definitely not knocking mental health but there are a lot of people with other struggles going on as well. We made the best of it and really pulled together as a family. Life can change in an instant. Do what you can to make the best of it now - I still need that reminder occasionally.


----------



## Canadian Girl

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> We won’t be going anywhere, except PEI, if we have to quarantine for two weeks. If that goes away by summer, we could end up in Bahamas at Atlantis after all! *dreams*


The bubble is opening soon, barring any new outbreak. PEI has managed to stay pretty unscathed apart from travellers who tested positive when quarantined, except for a couple of  local outbreaks that were quickly controlled.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

NewYKRunner said:


> To those struggling I can relate even though we don’t have the lockdowns some have seen other than a minor lockdown a year ago. After Christmas we were getting really frustrated with everything and kids were driving us nuts. January 28 we found out our 10 year old daughter had a mass in her abdomen during a completely unrelated appointment and her white blood cell count was off. At first they were thinking her colon or uterus. A bunch of test were fast tracked and off to the Stollery for us. A CT scan there showed a 10cm ovarian dermoid cyst - they can sometimes be cancer. 10 days after surgery the pathology report showed it was benign. We are still waiting on one tumour marker to return to normal. I can tell you that was 3 weeks of hell waiting to find out if your daughter has cancer while the rest of the world carried on - and her sister and my mom who flew over to help couldn’t visit her while she was in the hospital. We did not care at all about the pandemic at that point. Im definitely not knocking mental health but there are a lot of people with other struggles going on as well. We made the best of it and really pulled together as a family. Life can change in an instant. Do what you can to make the best of it now - I still need that reminder occasionally.


Absolutely. I even said above that at the end of the day our health is most important, we don’t have anything without our health. I am very grateful and thankful my family is healthy.
It goes without saying that a family tragedy, cancer etc would make the pandemic fade in the background, not that important at all.
Nothing else matters when a family has to deal with something like this or another tragedy. However ... it would also be the case if there was no pandemic. Your world stops dealing with things like this and we all quickly realize how nothing else matters but our health. So I completely agree with you and I am so happy to hear it wasn’t anything really serious with your daughter.
I think when people talk about the mental health issues they are dealing with during the pandemic, the effects on their kids, not being able to travel etc - it’s not to take away from really really serious issues people may be dealing with, even though mental health issues can also sometimes have tragic outcomes.

I worry about my almost 12 yo if things lock down again, he is only starting to act semi-normal again. When you see a child who was athletic, confident, strong student and happy change into an anxious, stressed, scared and lacking motivation child - in a matter of a year is very very troubling to a family. As his parents we are positive and optimistic, yet it’s not always enough for these kids, especially in the tween/teen years.They are surrounded by 24/7 covid negativity.
Like you are saying though, we are trying to get through it and make the best of the current situation. It’s about balance in my opinion, yes it could be much worse, yes my kids sports or our vacations don’t matter much if something serious happened in our lives. In my family, we are definitely trying to step back and appreciate the little every day things and teaching our kids same. I think we have to be grateful for the every day as you said life could change in an instant, but at the same time improving our mental health is so important we have to try and do whatever we can to move forward.
This past year will be one that will have a profound effect on how we go on with our lives. At least I think.
I do wish for better times ahead for everyone no matter what you’re dealing with.
I’m so glad we have Dis - as everyone here loves Disney and travel and at the same time it’s just wonderful people dealing with real life issues, supporting total strangers and offering great advice.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

Back to our regularly scheduled programming (thread topic lol)
Hopefully copying this link will work
https://apple.news/Anqt5Eu9QRJOtIrsEJG4ocAPresident of the tourism association of Canada said on global news today that they are looking to the federal government to outline the road map to reopening tourism and border and she thinks that the border *might* reopen in the summer based on increased vaccination pace. I don’t know I already accepted Fall 2021 lol but hey, at least we are now starting to hear the rumblings of some talks starting. She admitted nothing has been outlined and is saying businesses dependent on tourism will need a lot of notice, so time to get going! Ha!


----------



## pigletto

I’ve noticed through this pandemic when a topic starts to heat up in the media, that it soon comes to pass. I agree with you, I think it’s a good sign and we’re inching closer. I do think we are probably going to have to get through another lockdown in most of Ontario first but hopefully its the last.


----------



## CanucksRock

I’m hoping for the Mid-May declaration. I want to go beginning of June. I want to go so bad - I starting looking at the cost of Covid Tests & Iso hotel in Calgary  (I work from home, the 14 day quarantine I can deal with - I did it twice before they added the extra layers of hoops)


----------



## Carolynleanne

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> Back to our regularly scheduled programming (thread topic lol)
> Hopefully copying this link will work
> https://apple.news/Anqt5Eu9QRJOtIrsEJG4ocAPresident of the tourism association of Canada said on global news today that they are looking to the federal government to outline the road map to reopening tourism and border and she thinks that the border *might* reopen in the summer based on increased vaccination pace. I don’t know I already accepted Fall 2021 lol but hey, at least we are now starting to hear the rumblings of some talks starting. She admitted nothing has been outlined and is saying businesses dependent on tourism will need a lot of notice, so time to get going! Ha!



As someone who works in the tourism industry? Yeah. This has been a brutal year... just give us some direction here so that we can mentally prepare ourselves and figure out a way to make an income.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

The heck with it all!  I'm gonna fly down to Nassau, Bahamas and get on the Adventure of the Seas in June 2021! LMAO


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> The heck with it all!  I'm gonna fly down to Nassau, Bahamas and get on the Adventure of the Seas in June 2021! LMAO


We would totally do it but I don’t think we will be vaccinated by then  I’m 39 this year, my husband 42, we don’t work in health care or long term care.... otherwise I have thought about it. Lol


----------



## Susan2771

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> The heck with it all!  I'm gonna fly down to Nassau, Bahamas and get on the Adventure of the Seas in June 2021! LMAO



Oh man, take me with you!!!!


----------



## NewYKRunner

NewYKRunner said:


> And 162,984 today!  Definitely a good trend. I’ll stop posting daily vaccinations given now.





Juventus said:


> I think hitting a 200 000 day would require an update!



Bam!  216803 so far today!  190k yesterday.  

COVID-19 Tracker Canada - Vaccination Tracker


----------



## Aladora

BC just recorded the second highest number of new cases in a 1 day period, 908. The only higher day was 911 in November. Island Health recorded 55, which is a new one day high. Add yesterdays numbers and there have been 100 new cases here in the past 48 hours.


----------



## Juventus

Juventus said:


> I think hitting a 200 000 day would require an update!


216 000!


----------



## White Cat

CanucksRock said:


> I’m hoping for the Mid-May declaration. I want to go beginning of June. I want to go so bad - I starting looking at the cost of Covid Tests & Iso hotel in Calgary  (I work from home, the 14 day quarantine I can deal with - I did it twice before they added the extra layers of hoops)


I’m not sure Americans will want it open until Canada can get things under  control. But any way we just reserved in Toronto airport and I think came to $1250 a person. Started our shots in Florida


----------



## mshanson3121

White Cat said:


> I’m not sure Americans will want it open until Canada can get things under  control. But any way we just reserved in Toronto airport and I think came to $1250 a person. Started our shots in Florida



US isn't "under control" either - despite all their vaccinations their cases are starting to jump again, too, thanks to the UK variant. I doubt we see the border open this summer the way things are going.


----------



## White Cat

mshanson3121 said:


> US isn't "under control" either - despite all their vaccinations their cases are starting to jump again, too, thanks to the UK variant. I doubt we see the border open this summer the way things are going.


Calling it the UK variant is very offensive. But you can thank the UK for that. And China for the whole thing. But anyway. My mother in law received her first shot in Waterloo I believe. Second shot is scheduled for 4 months later. Makes no sense. Canadian red tape has made a mess of the whole thing. I know Americans will not want Canadians in until it’s better figured out. Interesting how smug Dis Canadians were 6 months ago.


----------



## tinkerone

White Cat said:


> Calling it the UK variant is very offensive. But you can thank the UK for that. And China for the whole thing. But anyway. My mother in law received her first shot in Waterloo I believe. Second shot is scheduled for 4 months later. Makes no sense. Canadian red tape has made a mess of the whole thing. I know Americans will not want Canadians in until it’s better figured out. Interesting how smug Dis Canadians were 6 months ago.


Oddly enough, the US government is trying to get the Canadian government to open our borders, not the other way around.  
And why is calling it the UK variant offensive?  
The word "Variant" implies that there are multiple types from multiple places. As such, if there is a "UK Variant" then you would also expect there to be several or many other variants around the world. This makes it easier to identify.
Calling it a "China virus" is aggregating the entire virus into a single location. While it has a similar literal (identifying the point of origin of a virus strand), it will have vastly different social connotations tied behind it as a result.


----------



## ottawamom

White Cat said:


> Calling it the UK variant is very offensive.


Perhaps you could have added the correct name if that's what you prefer. In this case it's B.1.1.7


----------



## TammyLynn33

White Cat said:


> Calling it the UK variant is very offensive. But you can thank the UK for that. And China for the whole thing. But anyway. My mother in law received her first shot in Waterloo I believe. Second shot is scheduled for 4 months later. Makes no sense. Canadian red tape has made a mess of the whole thing. I know Americans will not want Canadians in until it’s better figured out. Interesting how smug Dis Canadians were 6 months ago.



Calling the DIS Canadians all smug is also offensive. My kids are dual citizens and I in no way was acting smug towards the US or anywhere in a global pandemic( key word global )  bc we have family and friends there as so many of us Canadian DIS-ers.
It this post isn’t about which country handled it better , it’s about speculation about when the border will open to non -essential travel..


----------



## mshanson3121

White Cat said:


> Calling it the UK variant is very offensive. Interesting how smug Dis Canadians were 6 months ago.



Actually, no it's not. Its not a derogatory term, it's a way of identifying a viral agent by geographic location of discovery, and is a common practice that has been in place for a long time. 

Furthermore, no one is "smug". It's a global pandemic killing millions. Were we proud of how we have handled the pandemic? Yes. Are we still? Yes. Should we be? Yes. Even with this spike we're still in excellent shape compared to others. And it's the US asking *us* to re-open even with our rising cases, not the other way around. 

But as TammyLynn said, this thread has nothing to do with who handled the pandemic better/worse - it's solely about speculating when the border is going to re-open.


----------



## NewYKRunner

Then let’s keep it on track. Fall time. By then both countries should have enough vaccinations we should see a dramatic drop in both new cases and also fatalities. We’re not in a rush to travel until restrictions wherever we go are also reduced, if not lifted altogether. We’re in no rush to spend good money on travelling only to be limited on what we can do.


----------



## AdamsMum

NewYKRunner said:


> Then let’s keep it on track. Fall time. By then both countries should have enough vaccinations we should see a dramatic drop in both new cases and also fatalities. We’re not in a rush to travel until restrictions wherever we go are also reduced, if not lifted altogether. We’re in no rush to spend good money on travelling only to be limited on what we can do.


I really hope you're right.  Crossing my fingers for December 2021.


----------



## NewYKRunner

AdamsMum said:


> I really hope you're right.  Crossing my fingers for December 2021.



Us too, we would like to go to Hawaii, probably for the Honolulu Marathon on the 12th.  We went to WDW January 2020 for my wife and a friend of ours to do the Dopey challenge.  That same friend was signed up to do the full marathon (he missed out on signing up for the full Dopey again) this past January but that was obviously cancelled.  Him and I were debating trying to go for the Dopey again January 2022 but it's not looking like it'll happen at this point.


----------



## MamaLema

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> I worry about my almost 12 yo if things lock down again, he is only starting to act semi-normal again. When you see a child who was athletic, confident, strong student and happy change into an anxious, stressed, scared and lacking motivation child - in a matter of a year is very very troubling to a family.


No advice just wanted to let you know I am in the same situation. My 24 and 22 year old work full time but my DS17 who used to play numerous sports, volunteer, etc spends the whole day in his room only coming out at meal times. He is really struggling mentally and I don’t know what to do.


----------



## NewYKRunner

MamaLema said:


> No advice just wanted to let you know I am in the same situation. My 24 and 22 year old work full time but my DS17 who used to play numerous sports, volunteer, etc spends the whole day in his room only coming out at meal times. He is really struggling mentally and I don’t know what to do.



Is your 17 year old able to visit with friends?  If not physically, what about facetime/zoom chats?  We had some long distance friends introduce us to zoom chats and it's actually a nice way to connect with people you can't see regularly.  Hopefully once the warm weather arrives you're able to get outside for some fresh air and sunshine?  I know it can be hard to get motivated to go for a family walk, hike or bike ride initially but once you're out it can feel amazing.  I'm not sure what some of the recent lockdowns are preventing but I think most places allow outdoor activities otherwise, within reason?


----------



## quandrea

MamaLema said:


> No advice just wanted to let you know I am in the same situation. My 24 and 22 year old work full time but my DS17 who used to play numerous sports, volunteer, etc spends the whole day in his room only coming out at meal times. He is really struggling mentally and I don’t know what to do.


I have a 17yo too. Keep talking. I also go “visit” my daughter in her room multiple times a day to talk and just be with her.  She’s struggling too. I tell her that I will always come to her, that I will always find her, even when she’s far away (which, until about a week ago, that’s what it’s felt like). I’m speaking metaphorically, obviously.  I think they need to hear that we are available to them, and I also think we need to invade their space a bit right now for their own good. It’s a very tough time. I second getting out there for walks with him when you can. The one-on-one is good, as is the fresh air and exercise. Hang in there. This won’t last forever.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

MamaLema said:


> No advice just wanted to let you know I am in the same situation. My 24 and 22 year old work full time but my DS17 who used to play numerous sports, volunteer, etc spends the whole day in his room only coming out at meal times. He is really struggling mentally and I don’t know what to do.


I’m very sorry, it really is unfortunate what is happening to the youth right now. In the month we were open (we are back to full lockdown for a month) our son started to turn around when sports in some capacity resumed, seeing friends outside.
Now done again, not even outside soccer, nothing. I really really hope the school doesn’t close as that will tip the scales.
Let’s pray this is truly the last of the lockdowns and restrictions. We talk to friends in North Carolina who have 3 kids ranging from age 7 to 15 and all 3 now play regular team sports (they wear masks everywhere), and next week when they have spring break they are driving down to Universal and Disney. My son said I don’t understand why are they doing normal things and we can’t do anything. Well.... for one most of their friends in their 30s and 40s have now been vaccinated or are scheduled to be soon. I know we shouldn’t compare but it is very frustrating for Canada, especially Ontario.
Thank you for sharing your experience, it doesn’t make me feel better knowing so many out there have the same issues, but it does make us all in this together and together we shall get better and I am really hopeful it will be soon. Let’s cheer each other on.
I will say we booked a Disney world vacation for actual Christmas time frame, so I’m trying to start thinking about things to look forward to and involving my kid in some planning.
All the best, hope everyone has a pleasant and healthy Easter.
Edited to add I thought I said it above but didn’t - keep checking on your son, keep trying to watch a movie together or walk or bike or anything you can force him to do  It’s hard I’m sure as he’s an older teen (mine is 12 so I can still tell him what to do lol) but keep trying. He will know you are there for him.


----------



## Minniemoo15

A little bit of good news: 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/02/health/cdc-travel-guidance-fully-vaccinated-wellness/index.html


----------



## ottawamom

Ah yes but Canada is one of those places still requiring all the jumping through hoops. Here's why?

People still arriving with Covid 19

I don't know what all this is going to mean. We will just have to wait and see how the vaccine rollout goes. Maybe then things will be able to change. But who knows when that will be.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

ottawamom said:


> Ah yes but Canada is one of those places still requiring all the jumping through hoops. Here's why?
> 
> People still arriving with Covid 19
> 
> I don't know what all this is going to mean. We will just have to wait and see how the vaccine rollout goes. Maybe then things will be able to change. But who knows when that will be.


Well, in this article it says that ”As air travel is around 10% of pre-pandemic levels, it’s not responsible for the situation we are in”.  
I am not saying they shouldn’t test, sure test on arrival then quarantine those that test positive. At some point acknowledge vaccinations. We can’t keep telling people to get the shot but nothing changes for them. Even CDC (as per above post) is saying if vaccinated people can travel without those restrictions such as testing and quarantine. At this point, we are in the thickest of the pandemic but come late summer or Fall, I would expect a lot of these guidelines to change. We are just not there yet...


----------



## pigletto

> Ah yes but Canada is one of those places still requiring all the jumping through hoops. Here's why?
> 
> People still arriving with Covid 19
> 
> I don't know what all this is going to mean. We will just have to wait and see how the vaccine rollout goes. Maybe then things will be able to change. But who knows when that will be.


I’m confused as to what you are saying . The USA is way ahead of us as far as vaccinations go ( we are currently 42nd on that list ) but I fully expect once we have a significant portion of our population fully vaccinated that we as citizens will be able to move freely . I agree we should continue to  test people entering the country , as we always should have been. But why should fully vaccinated Canadian citizens still be required to test and quarantine to come back to Canada ?


----------



## tinkerone

pigletto said:


> I’m confused as to what you are saying . The USA is way ahead of us as far as vaccinations go ( we are currently 42nd on that list ) but I fully expect once we have a significant portion of our population fully vaccinated that we as citizens will be able to move freely . I agree we should continue to  test people entering the country , as we always should have been. *But why should fully vaccinated Canadian citizens still be required to test and quarantine to come back to Canada ?*


Because they can still be carriers.  The vaccine does not mean you will not get covid, it means if you do get covid it should not be life threatening.  Someone who is fully vaccinated can still contract and pass on the virus even if they don't know they have it.  This means, until everyone is vaccinated, there is a possibility of bringing it into the country knowingly or unknowingly.  With the variants this could be a very bad thing.   I could be wrong but I think the idea is to get 80% vaccinated to ensure it will not be an issue.


----------



## pigletto

tinkerone said:


> Because they can still be carriers.  The vaccine does not mean you will not get covid, it means if you do get covid it should not be life threatening.  Someone who is fully vaccinated can still contract and pass on the virus even if they don't know they have it.  This means, until everyone is vaccinated, there is a possibility of bringing it into the country knowingly or unknowingly.  With the variants this could be a very bad thing.   I could be wrong but I think the idea is to get 80% vaccinated to ensure it will not be an issue.


Which is a good argument for testing ( which I already mentioned in previous post ) but not for continuing to restrict movement .  I’m also discussing when a good  portion of our population is vaccinated . And I’m all for testing if that’s necessary . But eventually the restrictions have to loosen and I would hope being fully vaccinated is a start to that process .


----------



## pigletto

tinkerone said:


> Because they can still be carriers.  The vaccine does not mean you will not get covid, it means if you do get covid it should not be life threatening.  Someone who is fully vaccinated can still contract and pass on the virus even if they don't know they have it.  This means, until everyone is vaccinated, there is a possibility of bringing it into the country knowingly or unknowingly.  With the variants this could be a very bad thing.   I could be wrong but I think the idea is to get 80% vaccinated to ensure it will not be an issue.


https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/04/01/health/coronavirus-vaccine-walensky.amp.htmlAccording to multiple sources it’s not known if we could spread the virus once vaccinated yet .  I was talking about when the vast majority of us were vaccinated anyway. I guess I wasn’t clear .


----------



## tinkerone

pigletto said:


> https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2021/04/01/health/coronavirus-vaccine-walensky.amp.html*According to multiple sources it’s not known if we could spread the virus once vaccinated yet* .  I was talking about when the vast majority of us were vaccinated anyway. I guess I wasn’t clear .


That's my point.  We don't know, which is why Canadian citizens are still be required to test and quarantine to come back to Canada.   
My response mentioned when the vast majority are vaccinated as well.  We are both correct there.  That's when I think, and I'm no one, things will start to change for less strict restrictions.


----------



## Sue M

ottawamom said:


> Ah yes but Canada is one of those places still requiring all the jumping through hoops. Here's why?
> 
> People still arriving with Covid 19
> 
> I don't know what all this is going to mean. We will just have to wait and see how the vaccine rollout goes. Maybe then things will be able to change. But w ho knows when that will be.


With the new variants I don’t hold out much hope that our border will open in 2021.


----------



## Sue M

Minniemoo15 said:


> A little bit of good news:
> 
> https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/02/health/cdc-travel-guidance-fully-vaccinated-wellness/index.html


Good news for the US I guess. Different rules for us.


----------



## Carolynleanne

This is the tricky thing about getting the vaccination. If you can still spread it after getting your shot, then while it makes it safer for individuals and allows the hospitals to function okay, it does nothing to help us go back to living a normal life.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

Sue M said:


> With the new variants I don’t hold out much hope that our border will open in 2021.


Other countries are re-opening with the variants present, but the key is they are way ahead in vaccinations. If we can reach PM’s new goals in terms of vaccinations then yes they will re-open in 2021. I don’t think we want to be at a point where other countries have almost no restrictions and they are told they can travel if vaccinated and Canada keeping us from doing anything and going anywhere? It will not go over well anymore. I’m not saying to reopen now, I think we are a few months away from it, but again if the world around us reopens (let’s just even say USA and UK who we follow closely) and Canada doesn’t  solely because of lack of vaccines... I don’t think our PM wants that. The federal government knows they messed up with our initial vaccine rollout, they are doing everything possible now to catch up. It will not look good if we are locked up the second half of this year while other countries resume. Lets have a bit of a positive outlook at least.


----------



## NewYKRunner

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> Other countries are re-opening with the variants present, but the key is they are way ahead in vaccinations. If we can reach PM’s new goals in terms of vaccinations then yes they will re-open in 2021. I don’t think we want to be at a point where other countries have almost no restrictions and they are told they can travel if vaccinated and is Canada keeping us from doing anything and going anywhere? It will not go over well anymore. I’m not saying to reopen now, I think we are a few months away from it, but again if the world around us reopens (let’s just even say USA and UK who we follow closely) and Canada doesn’t  solely because of lack of vaccines... I don’t think our PM wants that. The federal government knows they messed up with our initial vaccine rollout, they are doing everything possible now to catch up. It will not look good if we are locked up the second half of this year while other countries resume. Lets have a bit of a positive outlook at least.



Look at Israel’s daily numbers to see how effective the vaccine still is against the variants.


----------



## mshanson3121

NewYKRunner said:


> Look at Israel’s daily numbers to see how effective the vaccine still is against the variants.



Exactly! Now, I suppose the question is - is the variant spreading there like here? But regardless, they're doing excellent in their case numbers.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

mshanson3121 said:


> Exactly! Now, I suppose the question is - is the variant spreading there like here? But regardless, they're doing excellent in their case numbers.


My understanding it’s not - but they are mostly vaccinated so that’s why (most likely)


----------



## pigletto

mshanson3121 said:


> Exactly! Now, I suppose the question is - is the variant spreading there like here? But regardless, they're doing excellent in their case numbers.


It was in the UK which had a highest daily case count of 68,000 on January 8th. By the end of March they were down to 3900 per day , a 95% reduction. They began their mass vaccination campaign on December 8th. So relatively speaking we are now where they were back in January and will hopefully see a marked improvement as we continue to vaccinate. The UK followed the same trajectory as Israel. 

ETA) Info found in this blog post from a doctor in Guelph who broke down the data nicely.  I posted this last week but here it is again. We are pretty much seeing exactly what she said.
http://braceletofhope.blogspot.com/2021/03/hope-is-on-horizon.html


----------



## Carolynleanne

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> Other countries are re-opening with the variants present, but the key is they are way ahead in vaccinations. If we can reach PM’s new goals in terms of vaccinations then yes they will re-open in 2021. I don’t think we want to be at a point where other countries have almost no restrictions and they are told they can travel if vaccinated and Canada keeping us from doing anything and going anywhere? It will not go over well anymore. I’m not saying to reopen now, I think we are a few months away from it, but again if the world around us reopens (let’s just even say USA and UK who we follow closely) and Canada doesn’t  solely because of lack of vaccines... I don’t think our PM wants that. The federal government knows they messed up with our initial vaccine rollout, they are doing everything possible now to catch up. It will not look good if we are locked up the second half of this year while other countries resume. Lets have a bit of a positive outlook at least.


Positive perspective: I’m renewing the kids passports this weekend in hopes of an end of 2021 opening


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

Carolynleanne said:


> Positive perspective: I’m renewing the kids passports this weekend in hopes of an end of 2021 opening


Ooh I think my son’s expires sep 2021 better get on it too


----------



## mshanson3121

pigletto said:


> It was in the UK which had a highest daily case count of 68,000 on January 8th. By the end of March they were down to 3900 per day , a 95% reduction. They began their mass vaccination campaign on December 8th. So relatively speaking we are now where they were back in January and will hopefully see a marked improvement as we continue to vaccinate. The UK followed the same trajectory as Israel.
> 
> ETA) Info found in this blog post from a doctor in Guelph who broke down the data nicely.  I posted this last week but here it is again. We are pretty much seeing exactly what she said.
> http://braceletofhope.blogspot.com/2021/03/hope-is-on-horizon.html



So right in time for summer....sounds good to me!!!


----------



## NewYKRunner

mshanson3121 said:


> Exactly! Now, I suppose the question is - is the variant spreading there like here? But regardless, they're doing excellent in their case numbers.


I had a link to an article where Israel apparently saw a surge from the variants at some point but as they continued with vaccinations their cases dropped again.


----------



## damo

My passport expires in June but I want to wait to get my hair done before I get my passport pictures taken!!!!! 

Who knows when that will be!!!!!?????


----------



## Carolynleanne

damo said:


> My passport expires in June but I want to wait to get my hair done before I get my passport pictures taken!!!!!
> 
> Who knows when that will be!!!!!?????


Getting our kids photos done tomorrow! Have you mail in still, so we want to get on it before it gets busy!


----------



## Sue M

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> Other countries are re-opening with the variants present, but the key is they are way ahead in vaccinations. If we can reach PM’s new goals in terms of vaccinations then yes they will re-open in 2021. I don’t think we want to be at a point where other countries have almost no restrictions and they are told they can travel if vaccinated and Canada keeping us from doing anything and going anywhere? It will not go over well anymore. I’m not saying to reopen now, I think we are a few months away from it, but again if the world around us reopens (let’s just even say USA and UK who we follow closely) and Canada doesn’t  solely because of lack of vaccines... I don’t think our PM wants that. The federal government knows they messed up with our initial vaccine rollout, they are doing everything possible now to catch up. It will not look good if we are locked up the second half of this year while other countries resume. Lets have a bit of a positive outlook at least.


Trying to find something positive, but having all time high 1,000 new cases a day here it’s hard to find the positive. Hopefully with more vaccines things will improve soon.


----------



## Sue M

damo said:


> My passport expires in June but I want to wait to get my hair done before I get my passport pictures taken!!!!!
> 
> Who knows when that will be!!!!!?????


Absolutely!  Since we’re stuck with that photo for 10 yrs!


----------



## Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> Other countries are re-opening with the variants present, but the key is they are way ahead in vaccinations. If we can reach PM’s new goals in terms of vaccinations then yes they will re-open in 2021. I don’t think we want to be at a point where other countries have almost no restrictions and they are told they can travel if vaccinated and Canada keeping us from doing anything and going anywhere? It will not go over well anymore. I’m not saying to reopen now, I think we are a few months away from it, but again if the world around us reopens (let’s just even say USA and UK who we follow closely) and Canada doesn’t  solely because of lack of vaccines... I don’t think our PM wants that. The federal government knows they messed up with our initial vaccine rollout, they are doing everything possible now to catch up. It will not look good if we are locked up the second half of this year while other countries resume. Lets have a bit of a positive outlook at least.



Keeping a positive outlook, I'm hoping that perhaps the land borders will take a staggered approach at opening by summertime.  It really doesn't have to be all or nothing, and a slower/controlled reopening would have a lot of benefits.   I would like to see fully vaccinated Canadian citizens living in the US have the chance to return home to reunite with their families, and vice versa, for fully vaccinated Americans living in Canada having the opportunity to return to visit their families in the USA.   Make proof of a negative PCR test within 48 hours an additional requirement.  Allow that group to move across the borders for the first 30 days and see how it affects infection rates in both countries. 

Even if this hope and dream of mine comes true, it will be too late for me unfortunately (my mother died in Canada on Valentines Day, and I was prohibited from being able to see her before she passed) but hopefully some of my fellow Canucks who live abroad could be spared that heartache with this type of plan by later this year.


----------



## ottawamom

So sorry for your loss.


----------



## damo

Aww Gina.  I'm so sorry to hear this.


----------



## pigletto

Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina said:


> Keeping a positive outlook, I'm hoping that perhaps the land borders will take a staggered approach at opening by summertime.  It really doesn't have to be all or nothing, and a slower/controlled reopening would have a lot of benefits.   I would like to see fully vaccinated Canadian citizens living in the US have the chance to return home to reunite with their families, and vice versa, for fully vaccinated Americans living in Canada having the opportunity to return to visit their families in the USA.   Make proof of a negative PCR test within 48 hours an additional requirement.  Allow that group to move across the borders for the first 30 days and see how it affects infection rates in both countries.
> 
> Even if this hope and dream of mine comes true, it will be too late for me unfortunately (my mother died in Canada on Valentines Day, and I was prohibited from being able to see her before she passed) but hopefully some of my fellow Canucks who live abroad could be spared that heartache with this type of plan by later this year.


I am so sorry for your loss Gina and that you couldn‘t see your mom. That’s terrible .


----------



## mshanson3121

Very sorry for your loss


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina said:


> Keeping a positive outlook, I'm hoping that perhaps the land borders will take a staggered approach at opening by summertime.  It really doesn't have to be all or nothing, and a slower/controlled reopening would have a lot of benefits.   I would like to see fully vaccinated Canadian citizens living in the US have the chance to return home to reunite with their families, and vice versa, for fully vaccinated Americans living in Canada having the opportunity to return to visit their families in the USA.   Make proof of a negative PCR test within 48 hours an additional requirement.  Allow that group to move across the borders for the first 30 days and see how it affects infection rates in both countries.
> 
> Even if this hope and dream of mine comes true, it will be too late for me unfortunately (my mother died in Canada on Valentines Day, and I was prohibited from being able to see her before she passed) but hopefully some of my fellow Canucks who live abroad could be spared that heartache with this type of plan by later this year.


I’m so sorry about your mother. Big hug.
I think you may be onto something with the gradual border reopening. I think in general the relaxation of the restrictions (masks etc) will be very gradual.


----------



## momof2gr8kids

Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina said:


> Keeping a positive outlook, I'm hoping that perhaps the land borders will take a staggered approach at opening by summertime.  It really doesn't have to be all or nothing, and a slower/controlled reopening would have a lot of benefits.   I would like to see fully vaccinated Canadian citizens living in the US have the chance to return home to reunite with their families, and vice versa, for fully vaccinated Americans living in Canada having the opportunity to return to visit their families in the USA.   Make proof of a negative PCR test within 48 hours an additional requirement.  Allow that group to move across the borders for the first 30 days and see how it affects infection rates in both countries.
> 
> Even if this hope and dream of mine comes true, it will be too late for me unfortunately (my mother died in Canada on Valentines Day, and I was prohibited from being able to see her before she passed) but hopefully some of my fellow Canucks who live abroad could be spared that heartache with this type of plan by later this year.


I'm so sorry about your mom Gina, and not being able to be with your other family members during this time for support.  I hope as well there is some type of staggered opening so families can be reunited easier.  With the doctors and hospitals in provinces sounding the alarm about ICU capacity and the variants, I fear it won't happen as quickly as we hope.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

momof2gr8kids said:


> I'm so sorry about your mom Gina, and not being able to be with your other family members during this time for support.  I hope as well there is some type of staggered opening so families can be reunited easier.  With the doctors and hospitals in provinces sounding the alarm about ICU capacity and the variants, I fear it won't happen as quickly as we hope.


Again though, if our vaccine roll out improves then we should get there by Fall.
We wouldn’t be having the problems we do now if our vaccines were as advanced as the States and other countries. They have variants too but it’s much more under control as more and more of their population is vaccinated. Meanwhile Canada: 
Still, I really think by Fall we’ll be travelling more freely.
Fingers and toes crossed lol.


----------



## damo

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> Again though, if our vaccine roll out improves then we should get there by Fall.
> We wouldn’t be having the problems we do now if our vaccines were as advanced as the States and other countries. They have variants too but it’s much more under control as more and more of their population is vaccinated. Meanwhile Canada:
> Still, I really think by Fall we’ll be travelling more freely.
> Fingers and toes crossed lol.



Take a look at Michigan.


----------



## mshanson3121

damo said:


> Take a look at Michigan.



Just googled... ☹

246 infected and 3 dead despite being vaccinated. But that's the reality of vaccines - they're not 100% effective. It's been said from day 1, you may still get Covid even with the vaccine, but it just won't be as severe. 

https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-h...ad-covid-19-michigan-despite-being-vaccinated


----------



## TommyJK

mshanson3121 said:


> Just googled... ☹
> 
> 246 infected and 3 dead despite being vaccinated. But that's the reality of vaccines - they're not 100% effective. It's been said from day 1, you may still get Covid even with the vaccine, but it just won't be as severe.
> 
> https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-h...ad-covid-19-michigan-despite-being-vaccinated



Overall Michigan is getting hit pretty hard right now.

They're nearly at 20% fully vaccinated, but over the past week they've had nearly 50,000 positive cases, their positivity rate from testing is over 16% (by comparison in Ontario we around 5-6%).


----------



## wdwmom3

damo said:


> Take a look at Michigan.



I suspect Texas will be next.  Did you see the stadium where the Jays played


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

damo said:


> Take a look at Michigan.


The latest still shows that high level of vaccinations is key to stand up to the variants, and vaccination levels vary state by state at this point.
Everyone is looking to Israel where they have a really high % vaccinated and it seems to be working in controlling the variants.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/ca.fina...-will-soon-defeat-the-variants-132844520.html
Also - majority of case increases in Michigan is found in younger unvaccinated people

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/04/04/us/michigan-rising-covid-cases/index.html
Of course other things that are more negative and scary will make the news first.
Either way we are in a race against those variants and vaccinations and I say we should stay hopeful and positive instead of saying that we are basically doomed.
Not you specifically, just overall.


----------



## damo

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> The latest still shows that high level of vaccinations is key to stand up to the variants, and vaccination levels vary state by state at this point.
> Everyone is looking to Israel where they have a really high % vaccinated and it seems to be working in controlling the variants.
> 
> https://www.google.ca/amp/s/ca.fina...-will-soon-defeat-the-variants-132844520.html
> Also - majority of case increases in Michigan is found in younger unvaccinated people
> 
> https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/04/04/us/michigan-rising-covid-cases/index.html
> Of course other things that are more negative and scary will make the news first.
> Either way we are in a race against those variants and vaccinations and I say we should stay hopeful and positive instead of saying that we are basically doomed.
> Not you specifically, just overall.



It was just your comment that the US has it "much more under control" that sparked me to point out that not all of the US does and we still need to be vigilant.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

damo said:


> It was just your comment that the US has it "much more under control" that sparked me to point out that not all of the US does.


Of course not all of it, overall they do though, more than Canada. In terms of % vaccinated.


----------



## damo

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> Of course not all of it, overall they do though, more than Canada. In terms of % vaccinated.



But you were talking about the variants.  Those variants are still a major issue.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

damo said:


> But you were talking about the variants.  Those variants are still a major issue.


It’s is currently believed that the vaccination levels have a direct impact on controlling the variants. Let’s hope...


----------



## TammyLynn33

Is anyone else concerned that our policy of extending intervals between dosing will affect the birder opening . Every American I’ve spoken with thinks it’s absolutely crazy ours are so far spread out ..
I know once we have both shots we are “fully vaccinated “ but I wonder if this won’t be an issue ?


----------



## wdwmom3

TammyLynn33 said:


> Is anyone else concerned that our policy of extending intervals between dosing will affect the birder opening . Every American I’ve spoken with thinks it’s absolutely crazy ours are so far spread out ..
> I know once we have both shots we are “fully vaccinated “ but I wonder if this won’t be an issue ?



I don’t think so.  There are more and more studies showing that we have protection for that long.  And I know Americans think it’s crazy but they aren’t dealing with vaccine shortages.   The UK has also been delaying second doses.

I actually remember reading something from the CDC saying although a delay isn’t recommended they think it’s ok.  Let me see if I can find it.


----------



## wdwmom3

TammyLynn33 said:


> Is anyone else concerned that our policy of extending intervals between dosing will affect the birder opening . Every American I’ve spoken with thinks it’s absolutely crazy ours are so far spread out ..
> I know once we have both shots we are “fully vaccinated “ but I wonder if this won’t be an issue ?



This is from the cdc



If it is not feasible to adhere to the recommended interval, you may schedule the second dose up to 6 weeks (42 days) after the first dose; there is limited efficacy data beyond this window, but a dose after this time does not need to be repeated.


https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/info-by-product/pfizer/index.html


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

6 weeks? That would be awesome! I wonder what the CDC thinks about 4 months!


----------



## wdwmom3

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> 6 weeks? That would be awesome! I wonder what the CDC thinks about 4 months!



Well they say you don’t need to repeat the dose.  So I think they will accept our vaccines.  

I’ve also read today that do expect the time between to be less then 16 weeks since we are getting more vaccines sooner.


----------



## hdrolfe

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> 6 weeks? That would be awesome! I wonder what the CDC thinks about 4 months!



Everything I've read says they are watching to see what the impact of waiting 4 months is, so I guess we are some kind of guinea pigs in this? I do remember reading that the AZ second dose was to be 2 to 16 weeks based on their documents so no worries there, it's only the Moderna and Pfizer I guess... Since AZ isn't approved in the US yet, but is in many places, I assume they won't have an issue with that.


----------



## NewYKRunner

hdrolfe said:


> Everything I've read says they are watching to see what the impact of waiting 4 months is, so I guess we are some kind of guinea pigs in this?



I highly expect booster shots for a couple years anyway and I think any dose right now is a huge help to both individuals and society as a whole.  Being a guinea pig isn't fun, but there just hasn't been enough time to get much data at this point.


----------



## Muskrat191

There was an article in Nature where the authors argued that dose-sparing strategies (like Canada is doing) has a net positive effect at the population-level. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41577-021-00544-9


----------



## Minniemoo15

The last couple of paragraphs in this article was interesting ... previously our premier (Higgs) said it would be many months before the US border reopened and thaf he wouldn’t be surprised if the border was still closed well into the fall. Now he is indicating Trudeau mentioned it could reopen sooner if the US sends us extra doses? An interesting read either way. At this point I just hope interprovincial travel is restored this summer so my sisters from AB can come home. But it gives me a teensy bit more hope for our March trip.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/border-leblanc-higgs-plan-uncertainty-1.5980670


----------



## mshanson3121

Minniemoo15 said:


> The last couple of paragraphs in this article was interesting ... previously our premier (Higgs) said it would be many months before the US border reopened and thaf he wouldn’t be surprised if the border was still closed well into the fall. Now he is indicating Trudeau mentioned it could reopen sooner if the US sends us extra doses? An interesting read either way. At this point I just hope interprovincial travel is restored this summer so my sisters from AB can come home. But it gives me a teensy bit more hope for our March trip.
> 
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/border-leblanc-higgs-plan-uncertainty-1.5980670



I was just coming to share this. We're "bargaining" now - send us more doses we'll open up.

In this article, Higgs speaks as though it may not initially be the entire international border that opens, but certain parts of it. He said they (NB) already anticipate being able to open to the rest of the country by end of June, and doesn't see why that can't include Maine.


----------



## Jrb1979

All this talk about the border opening, Trudeau also talked about having a vaccine passport for international travel. That should help us with not having to quarantine if you want to travel.


----------



## newdeal

wdwmom3 said:


> I suspect Texas will be next.  Did you see the stadium where the Jays played



unlikely, Michigan had amongst the tightest restrictions.  Places with less cases previously are going to have more now it really comes down to that.  20% vaccinated sounds great but it still means 80% susceptible.  Texas has way more natural immunity by people getting infected before the worse variants started spreading


----------



## NewYKRunner

Wow, 317,000 vaccinations in Canada today!


----------



## bcwife76

Looks like being fully vaccinated could come even sooner. Lately they've been saying we could all be fully vaccinated by end of September. Now it could be by Labour day or before:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...o-want-by-end-of-summer-trudeau-says-knc8oegd


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

bcwife76 said:


> Looks like being fully vaccinated could come even sooner. Lately they've been saying we could all be fully vaccinated by end of September. Now it could be by Labour day or before:
> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...o-want-by-end-of-summer-trudeau-says-knc8oegd


Disney world Christmas?


----------



## NewYKRunner

Just over 360,000 vaccinations yesterday.  That means probably just a little less than 1% of the population got their first dose yesterday:

COVID-19 Tracker Canada - Vaccination Tracker (covid19tracker.ca)

Hopefully that brings you to the correct page.  Also the following page shows Canada on a fantastic trajectory compared to the US, although the more people that get vaccinated, the slower progress will be.  Just look at Israel and UK as examples.  Canada isn't part of the initial list, you need to add it if you look on the left hand side of the page.  Type in Canada and check the box.

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations
I think with our current vaccination rate and the current lockdowns going on, we'll see some serious progress dealing with the current wave.  Canada is expected to receive a lot of extra doses shortly so as long as the population keeps getting their vaccinations we should be in a very good position soon.

Edit: One more webpage for you.  I google searched Israel and although they had a few more cases yesterday than average, no deaths:

https://www.google.com/search?q=isr...0i433j69i60.1120j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8


----------



## damo

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> Disney world Christmas?



Disney World December is my hope!!!!


----------



## Jrb1979

February Busch Gardens Tampa is my hope.


----------



## Minniemoo15

March at the Poly is my hope!!! Come on vaccines, do your thing!!

Recently our Premier (NB) mentioned 75% vaccinated as the rate when which we can all take a breath and have a much closer to normal life. I'm hoping the US border might be a part of that as I know he is negotiations now for more vaccines from Maine in the promise of opening the border faster. Dr. Tam mentioned 75% today too as her goal for a more normal summer. Feeling hopeful for next spring.


----------



## hdrolfe

I think it's 75% with one shot, 20% fully vaccinated, start reopening things. But if less than 55% of people get any shots, likely recurrence in the fall. So let's hope people get vaccinated.


----------



## damo

hdrolfe said:


> I think it's 75% with one shot, 20% fully vaccinated, start reopening things. But if less than 55% of people get any shots, likely recurrence in the fall. So let's hope people get vaccinated.



It is going to be very interesting to see what percentage of Canadians get vaccinated.


----------



## TammyLynn33

Minniemoo15 said:


> March at the Poly is my hope!!! Come on vaccines, do your thing!!
> 
> Recently our Premier (NB) mentioned 75% vaccinated as the rate when which we can all take a breath and have a much closer to normal life. I'm hoping the US border might be a part of that as I know he is negotiations now for more vaccines from Maine in the promise of opening the border faster. Dr. Tam mentioned 75% today too as her goal for a more normal summer. Feeling hopeful for next spring.



She also said mid July to august . I’m at my breaking point I can’t do this until august . And another wave in the fall when I’m supposed to send my kid to a hot spot for school?? Seriously debating heading south and hunkering down down there at this point.


----------



## hdrolfe

damo said:


> It is going to be very interesting to see what percentage of Canadians get vaccinated.



I hope that the big jump when it opened to 40+ is indicitive of those younger people being eager and willing to get it. Considering how fast those appointments booked up, I'm hopeful. 

I do agree though with @TammyLynn33, doing this until August is going to be HARD. I hope we see improvements and things opening back up well before then


----------



## NewYKRunner

damo said:


> It is going to be very interesting to see what percentage of Canadians get vaccinated.



Until children can get vaccinated I have a hard time seeing vaccination rates to be where we want them to be.


----------



## bcwife76

NACI is now recommending opening up AZ vaccinations to 30+. Wonder which provinces will follow suit? Right now BC is running out of supply and will have exhausted our entire supply by next week sometime.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

TammyLynn33 said:


> She also said mid July to august . I’m at my breaking point I can’t do this until august . And another wave in the fall when I’m supposed to send my kid to a hot spot for school?? Seriously debating heading south and hunkering down down there at this point.


Just curious what you mean by heading south if you can share? As a family we thought about leaving Canada for few months,  with work and school online we could wait this out somewhere else. In theory... then I panic. I hear you though, my entire family is at our breaking point too, or near it, if come end of June we are still told nothing changes, continue with all public health measures, don’t play sports, don’t socialize, don’t travel (I’m talking locally even) etc etc - that will be my own breaking point. Trying hard to stay strong and positive for my kids... they are not stupid though. Even if we are, everything out there is negative. And while I’m not the jealous type I am very envious of my friends that live in the States (some in FL and some in NC)... yes they are still wearing masks but vaccinated and trying to live with covid until it’s no longer a pandemic. It’s a huge difference in mood and while light is at the end of the tunnel here too, those few more months for us will be hardest.


----------



## Jrb1979

hdrolfe said:


> I hope that the big jump when it opened to 40+ is indicitive of those younger people being eager and willing to get it. Considering how fast those appointments booked up, I'm hopeful.
> 
> I do agree though with @TammyLynn33, doing this until August is going to be HARD. I hope we see improvements and things opening back up well before then


I'm thinking our best bet would be what we had last summer. At this point I will take it.


----------



## hdrolfe

bcwife76 said:


> NACI is now recommending opening up AZ vaccinations to 30+. Wonder which provinces will follow suit? Right now BC is running out of supply and will have exhausted our entire supply by next week sometime.



I think supply will be the issue at this point for AZ. I am sure if we had it, they would open it up. Of course we also have still got 40+ people on waiting lists to get it so... maybe they'll wait for that to die down? who knows any more... 

@NewYKRunner I believe Pfizer has applied with Health Canada to get approval for use in 12 - 16 year olds. Hopefully soon on that.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

NewYKRunner said:


> Until children can get vaccinated I have a hard time seeing vaccination rates to be where we want them to be.


Then we have a real problem because a lot of parents have no desire to vaccinate their kids for the time being. Parents and adults will get it (including ourselves) but I keep hearing most often no for the kids.


----------



## hdrolfe

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> Then we have a real problem because a lot of parents have no desire to vaccinate their kids for the time being. Parents and adults will get it (including ourselves) but I keep hearing most often no for the kids.



I'll be getting it for my son, he's on board. I mean he's vaccinated against everything else so I don't see the big difference here.


----------



## bcwife76

hdrolfe said:


> I'll be getting it for my son, he's on board. I mean he's vaccinated against everything else so I don't see the big difference here.


Same. My 12 yr old (13 in August) says she absolutely wants to take it and both my husband and I have no qualms about it. Our youngest is still 10 (11 in November) so who knows when she will get it.


----------



## hdrolfe

bcwife76 said:


> Same. My 12 yr old (13 in August) says she absolutely wants to take it and both my husband and I have no qualms about it. Our youngest is still 10 (11 in November) so who knows when she will get it.



My son is only 12 in December, I am wondering if they'll do it by birth year, I'd be ok with that since it's only a few months by fall.


----------



## Spotthecat

I have 3 boys, all willing to take it. Only way they're getting back onto a Disney cruise...


----------



## NewYKRunner

hdrolfe said:


> @NewYKRunner I believe Pfizer has applied with Health Canada to get approval for use in 12 - 16 year olds. Hopefully soon on that.


I heard they applied in the US awhile ago, I haven't heard about them applying in Canada but wouldn't be surprised.


----------



## pigletto

My 17 year old will be getting it as soon as he can. He’s eager to get it . He’s so miserable and stressed  with online school .


----------



## wdwmom3

I’m hoping the US will start shipping more of the AZ they have sitting in freezers here.  It just makes sense.  They aren’t using that vaccine.  If they do they could lower the age for AZ shots even further


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

hdrolfe said:


> I'll be getting it for my son, he's on board. I mean he's vaccinated against everything else so I don't see the big difference here.


My older one is 11 and doesn’t have an opinion on the vaccine, but he knows his parents and grandparents want to take it. (Actually in laws just had it this week)  I think the reason why many parents are hesitant about this vaccine in particular (as opposed to routine childhood vaccinations) is it’s approved for emergency use and we don’t know and won’t know long term effects. That’s what I hear, this is what I read on it... myself I’m on the fence about it for my kids.  Our paediatrician who is very much pro vaccine said to us in January he would not rush out at this point to give it to kids. I trust him when he says to wait. Myself and my husband though, we’ll go as soon as we can. I’m 39 this year, can’t get Az yet, but have 41 husband on the list.


----------



## NewYKRunner

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> My older one is 11 and doesn’t have an opinion on the vaccine, but he knows his parents and grandparents want to take it. (Actually in laws just had it this week)  I think the reason why many parents are hesitant about this vaccine in particular (as opposed to routine childhood vaccinations) is it’s approved for emergency use and we don’t know and won’t know long term effects. That’s what I hear, this is what I read on it... myself I’m on the fence about it for my kids.  Our paediatrician who is very much pro vaccine said to us in January he would not rush out at this point to give it to kids. I trust him when he says to wait. Myself and my husband though, we’ll go as soon as we can. I’m 39 this year, can’t get Az yet, but have 41 husband on the list.


I'm sure it's safe but I have the same hesitations for our 6 and 10 year olds.  I had minimal concern to get Moderna because 1) I want to protect our kids that can't get the vaccine and I deal with essential workers occasionally at work (who are great about masking and distancing) and 2) if it gives me some weird deformity I've already had our 2 kids and can't pass anything on to them.


----------



## Aladora

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> Then we have a real problem because a lot of parents have no desire to vaccinate their kids for the time being. Parents and adults will get it (including ourselves) but I keep hearing most often no for the kids.



My son turns 16 in July and he wants to get vaccinated as soon as he can, DH and I agree with him 100%.


----------



## Sue M

wdwmom3 said:


> I’m hoping the US will start shipping more of the AZ they have sitting in freezers here.  It just makes sense.  They aren’t using that vaccine.  If they do they could lower the age for AZ shots even further


I just heard on the noon news AZ may be lowered to 30. Nothing official yet..but stay tuned.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

Aladora said:


> My son turns 16 in July and he wants to get vaccinated as soon as he can, DH and I agree with him 100%.


Yes, 16 and over have been part of the initial clinical studies as well as they are being vaccinated with at least one vaccine already, there is a lot more data for the 16+ age group. All I’m saying there isn’t enough data so far in younger kids for me to say yay or nay. I’m simply waiting to decide. It’s actually a moot point as the vaccine is not available for under 16 right now, once it is I’ll really start thinking about it.


----------



## wdwmom3

Sue M said:


> I just heard on the noon news AZ may be lowered to 30. Nothing official yet..but stay tuned.



They already announced they lowered the recommendation to 30.  Provinces haven’t yet.  But with more supply they may


----------



## Donald - my hero

*Ontario just announced they will be keeping the age at 40 because we don't have the supply. With the sudden push to get pregnant women vaccinated ASAP there will be an added strain on the whole roll-out as well so as soon as you get a chance to get whichever vaccine is available go for it!!!*


----------



## hdrolfe

Donald - my hero said:


> *Ontario just announced they will be keeping the age at 40 because we don't have the supply. With the sudden push to get pregnant women vaccinated ASAP there will be an added strain on the whole roll-out as well so as soon as you get a chance to get whichever vaccine is available go for it!!!*



There are so many pregnant women ending up in hospital and ICU's with this right now I am glad they are getting bumped up the list, it's two lives on the line. I belong to a lot of single mom by choice groups so the news spreads fast there. Though on the other hand many of them are upset about the non-essential procedures being cancelled or put on hold since it means their procedures are stop, even though some had already started medications for them. 

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coron...er-vaccine-on-children-12-and-older-1.5391294
from a week ago on CTV about the Health Canada review.

I guess I don't understand what sort of thing people think a vaccine is going to do in the long term that makes them hesitate to give it to kids (especially since it's being trialed and tested). 

I guess since the main push on that AZ is due in June, perhaps we'll be able to get our second shots sooner? Though I had also read some speculation that they might offer Pfizer as the second dose (based on some trials going on in the UK). 

I wonder who will get those J&J shots that are one dose... not that I wanted to wait but wouldn't it be nice to not have to get a second needle (I hate them lol, and it hurt regardless of what everyone else said! still glad I got dose one).


----------



## JETSDAD

I'm in an area where it's supposed to be 18+ for AZ but they haven't offered any clinics for people under 50 yet. I'm on a wait list for the 40+ at some pharmacies though.  Hoping the land border opens before the 50th anniversary so we can be there for that.


----------



## pigletto

I wasn’t sure where to put this article since it really pertains to all borders, not just land. I hope it’s ok here.
Talk is finally heating up for eventual reopening and “vaccine passports” or vaccine certification appears to be almost a certainty.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6009840


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

pigletto said:


> I wasn’t sure where to put this article since it really pertains to all borders, not just land. I hope it’s ok here.
> Talk is finally heating up for eventual reopening and “vaccine passports” or vaccine certification appears to be almost a certainty.
> 
> https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6009840


I was just reading this article, so interesting to see how everything is evolving.  I used to think no way will this actually happen... no way will Canada participate... and here we go!
I’m glad though and hope something can be implemented quickly so some safe travel can resume at least late summer. I also read that all adults may be getting first dose of vaccine by end of May. It puts me in that category, and I didn’t think I could get one til July. Now, we’ll see how it actually plays out but at least things are looking up.


----------



## MamaLema

@NewYKRunner I believe Pfizer has applied with Health Canada to get approval for use in 12 - 16 year olds. Hopefully soon on that.
[/QUOTE]
That’s interesting. I wonder what happens to all the 17 year olds since the other group is 18+


----------



## Carolynleanne

NewYKRunner said:


> I'm sure it's safe but I have the same hesitations for our 6 and 10 year olds.  I had minimal concern to get Moderna because 1) I want to protect our kids that can't get the vaccine and I deal with essential workers occasionally at work (who are great about masking and distancing) and 2) if it gives me some weird deformity I've already had our 2 kids and can't pass anything on to them.



This is how I feel as well. I'm not eager for my kids to get it at this point. That being said, they're all three under the age of 10, so they wont be offered it for a while yet.


----------



## NewYKRunner

MamaLema said:


> That’s interesting. I wonder what happens to all the 17 year olds since the other group is 18+


I’m pretty sure Pfizer is approved for 16+


----------



## ellbell

NewYKRunner said:


> That’s interesting. I wonder what happens to all the 17 year olds since the other group is 18+


Pfizer is already approved for 16 and older


----------



## NewYKRunner

ellbell said:


> Pfizer is already approved for 16 and older


I’m aware. Forum messing with quotes, I was quoting someone else. I managed to fix it


----------



## Susan2771

https://www.680news.com/2021/05/04/...y-by-summer-justin-trudeau-vaccine-passports/


----------



## wdwmom3

Susan2771 said:


> https://www.680news.com/2021/05/04/...y-by-summer-justin-trudeau-vaccine-passports/



Interesting.  But what is required when you get back is what I’m waiting to hear about.  Hoping at some point the quarantine requirement can end.


----------



## pigletto

Susan2771 said:


> https://www.680news.com/2021/05/04/...y-by-summer-justin-trudeau-vaccine-passports/


Amazing ! I love that it’s starting to sound like a reality. I highly doubt the quarantine would stay in place for fully vaccinated people. I guess it remains to be seen but I don’t think he would be giving interviews about the change to travel if essentially it was staying the same as it is now.
Almost makes me want to plan a trip sooner than January 
My non expert advice is if you are on the fence , it’s time to book .. prices are about to skyrocket now that there’s something to go on .


----------



## NewYKRunner

Glad to see the board back up and running again.  Looks like 12-15 year olds will start to get Pfizer.  Can only help open things up!


----------



## Susan2771

More hope???  I am glad someone is asking for what the plan is and what the benchmarks are to be met.  

Top Democrat tells Biden administration: Get to work reopening border with Canada | CBC News


----------



## bcwife76

We hit 400,000 vaccinations today!!! I think that is a new one day record? 400,489!!!


----------



## NewYKRunner

bcwife76 said:


> We hit 400,000 vaccinations today!!! I think that is a new one day record? 400,489!!!



And when you combine what doses Canada already has right now with what is currently scheduled to come, we can maintain that number for awhile.


----------



## KNovacovschi

I received my 1st dose of AZ on April 22nd but wasn’t given a date for my second except the week of August 9th which I was ok with since my trip is Sept 19th however I’m now starting to get worried as they have been stating in the news that they are now looking at allowing to mix vaccines due to not enough AZ. My concern with this is will we have to restart all over again or will say having Pfizer as the 2nd dose be ok. I know they are testing it in the UK right now with results due to be made available in June and our government wants to know by mid May, I just don’t want to start all over again as I had extremely bad side effects, ie 39.9 temp and so forth. I’m going in September no matter what and am prepared to do everything that is required but want it to all be completed before I go.


----------



## wdwmom3

KNovacovschi said:


> I received my 1st dose of AZ on April 22nd but wasn’t given a date for my second except the week of August 9th which I was ok with since my trip is Sept 19th however I’m now starting to get worried as they have been stating in the news that they are now looking at allowing to mix vaccines due to not enough AZ. My concern with this is will we have to restart all over again or will say having Pfizer as the 2nd dose be ok. I know they are testing it in the UK right now with results due to be made available in June and our government wants to know by mid May, I just don’t want to start all over again as I had extremely bad side effects, ie 39.9 temp and so forth. I’m going in September no matter what and am prepared to do everything that is required but want it to all be completed before I go.



My understanding is if they decide it is ok to mix vaccines you won’t be “starting over”.  Just your second shot could be pfyser instead of AZ.  So you would only get the one more shot, not two.   If that makes sense.


----------



## Minniemoo15

KNovacovschi said:


> I received my 1st dose of AZ on April 22nd but wasn’t given a date for my second except the week of August 9th which I was ok with since my trip is Sept 19th however I’m now starting to get worried as they have been stating in the news that they are now looking at allowing to mix vaccines due to not enough AZ. My concern with this is will we have to restart all over again or will say having Pfizer as the 2nd dose be ok. I know they are testing it in the UK right now with results due to be made available in June and our government wants to know by mid May, I just don’t want to start all over again as I had extremely bad side effects, ie 39.9 temp and so forth. I’m going in September no matter what and am prepared to do everything that is required but want it to all be completed before I go.


I read  that the next shipment of AZ is being reserved for second doses (at least here in NB). So my parents, who had their first shot early April, may end up being fully vacced much sooner than they anticipated.


----------



## KNovacovschi

wdwmom3 said:


> My understanding is if they decide it is ok to mix vaccines you won’t be “starting over”.  Just your second shot could be pfyser instead of AZ.  So you would only get the one more shot, not two.   If that makes sense.



That makes sense and that’s what I’m hoping.


----------



## KNovacovschi

Minniemoo15 said:


> I read  that the next shipment of AZ is being reserved for second doses (at least here in NB). So my parents, who had their first shot early April, may end up being fully vacced much sooner than they anticipated.



that’s great news.  I hope that’s the case for all of Canada, I’m in Ontario.


----------



## suse66

Minniemoo15 said:


> I read  that the next shipment of AZ is being reserved for second doses (at least here in NB). So my parents, who had their first shot early April, may end up being fully vacced much sooner than they anticipated.


I would be very happy if that happened. I had my first shot of AZ April 5th and am scheduled for my second July 26th. I would love it if that was bumped up!


----------



## Minniemoo15

I can’t find the original article that said these upcoming AZ shipments would be mostly reserved  for second doses, but this article does mention that they can be.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6017037


----------



## quandrea

suse66 said:


> I would be very happy if that happened. I had my first shot of AZ April 5th and am scheduled for my second July 26th. I would love it if that was bumped up!


My pharmacy wasn’t booking second doses. Wish I had an appt.


----------



## bcwife76

quandrea said:


> My pharmacy wasn’t booking second doses. Wish I had an appt.


Neither was ours (we had our first shots at Costco pharmacy). They just told us to wait for direction from the BC govt. I would hope that future shipments of AZ would be used for second shots and with those deliveries *expected* end of June hopefully that bumps us all up a few weeks


----------



## Sue M

bcwife76 said:


> Neither was ours (we had our first shots at Costco pharmacy). They just told us to wait for direction from the BC govt. I would hope that future shipments of AZ would be used for second shots and with those deliveries *expected* end of June hopefully that bumps us all up a few weeks


Did you register on the Govt web site?  In BC they’re asking people who received an AZ shot from a pharmacy to also register on the govt vaccine web site.


----------



## ottawamom

I wish there was a bit more guidance on the second shot for AZ. I guess time will tell with that one. I don't have a second shot booked yet either. I'm actually hoping that we are able to take the Pfizer. It's kind of like taking tylenol and advil for a bad headache or fever. They approach the same problem in a different way and are therefore more effective.


----------



## bcwife76

Sue M said:


> Did you register on the Govt web site?  In BC they’re asking people who received an AZ shot from a pharmacy to also register on the govt vaccine web site.


Oh yes, we were both registered on the Gov site before our first shot of AZ. They are now down to our age cohort this weekend (but I have no remorse getting AZ because hey, we are two+ weeks ahead of our age cohort!)


----------



## newdeal

its all somewhat strange since a single shot of Pfizer seems to be more effective than a single shot of J&J which after a single shot you would be good to go.


----------



## TLPL

newdeal said:


> its all somewhat strange since a single shot of Pfizer seems to be more effective than a single shot of J&J which after a single shot you would be good to go.


I don't think Pfizer is a single shot vaccine tho.


----------



## NewYKRunner

TLPL said:


> I don't think Pfizer is a single shot vaccine tho.


They’re saying after the first dose, not that it’s a single dose.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Ha! In Canada after your first shot of Pfizer, who knows how much protection you get since your next dose in months later LOL  Might all be a wash in the end.


----------



## damo

newdeal said:


> its all somewhat strange since a single shot of Pfizer seems to be more effective than a single shot of J&J which after a single shot you would be good to go.



You can't compare efficacy since the vaccines were tested at different times in different populations.


----------



## newdeal

damo said:


> You can't compare efficacy since the vaccines were tested at different times in different populations.



you really can because as the numbers get so large (hundred of millions of doses delivered worldwide) it takes out any sampling variability.


----------



## damo

newdeal said:


> you really can because as the numbers get so large (hundred of millions of doses delivered worldwide) it takes out any sampling variability.



What current efficacy numbers are you looking at?


----------



## newdeal

J&J’s vaccine has 66.3% effectiveness overall and 74.4% effectiveness in the United States, it has “100% efficacy against hospitalization and death from the virus

Using the data from the published study of the Pfizer vaccine, Public Health England determined that vaccine efficacy was 89% for 15-21 days after dose 1 – and before dose 2 on day 21. The range was between 52% and 97%. For days 15-28, or up to the first week after the second dose, protection from the first dose was estimated at 91%. The range for this was between 74% and 97%. A second dose would not be expected to confer immunity within that time.


----------



## pigletto

I was reading about the UK framework for travel this weekend. They will essentially have tiers of countries you can visit. If the country is on the green list you have to do testing, but no quarantine when returning. If a country is on the amber list you have to test and quarantine five days upon return etc etc . It will be revisited every three weeks and countries can be added. They can also be taken off the list quickly in case of outbreak. 
I am finding it interesting as I believe we will have some similarities in our approach to reopening. I think travel will still require vaccination and testing but not necessarily quarantine if you are visiting an approved country and test negative. 
You can read more about the UK policies here 
https://www.bbc.com/news/explainers-52544307
 It’s being criticized as too restrictive and I suspect whatever we roll out in Canada will be very cautious and draw similar complaints from some.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Hmm, but how much will they charge for the testing per person? That's what I want to know.  If we still need to test prior to leaving Canada, and then test prior to leaving "X", and then test upon arrival in Canada... that's ridiculous.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

pigletto said:


> I was reading about the UK framework for travel this weekend. They will essentially have tiers of countries you can visit. If the country is on the green list you have to do testing, but no quarantine when returning. If a country is on the amber list you have to test and quarantine five days upon return etc etc . It will be revisited every three weeks and countries can be added. They can also be taken off the list quickly in case of outbreak.
> I am finding it interesting as I believe we will have some similarities in our approach to reopening. I think travel will still require vaccination and testing but not necessarily quarantine if you are visiting an approved country and test negative.
> You can read more about the UK policies here
> https://www.bbc.com/news/explainers-52544307
> It’s being criticized as too restrictive and I suspect whatever we roll out in Canada will be very cautious and draw similar complaints from some.


I haven’t had a chance to read the entire thing, but at first glance it doesn’t mention vaccines? Or having different/less restrictions for vaccinated travelers?


----------



## pigletto

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> I haven’t had a chance to read the entire thing, but at first glance it doesn’t mention vaccines? Or having different/less restrictions for vaccinated travelers?


I didn’t see that either but I skimmed the one I linked too . I assume it’s part of the plan but I don’t know for sure .


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

pigletto said:


> I didn’t see that either but I skimmed the one I linked too . I assume it’s part of the plan but I don’t know for sure .


Hopefully! I know the EU has talked about vaccines as part of their entry restrictions (or tests or quarantines) but the UK is no longer part of the EU I think?
Either way I hope it is because otherwise people may stop vaccinating...


----------



## NewYKRunner

bcwife76 said:


> We hit 400,000 vaccinations today!!! I think that is a new one day record? 400,489!!!



Just shy of that again today.  According to the link below, I'm guessing in approximately a week Canada could have as many people vaccinated as the US (percentage of population) with at least one dose.  The US has way more people vaccinated with a second dose, though.

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations


----------



## KNovacovschi

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> Hmm, but how much will they charge for the testing per person? That's what I want to know.  If we still need to test prior to leaving Canada, and then test prior to leaving "X", and then test upon arrival in Canada... that's ridiculous.



The test before leaving Canada is $200 if you are in Ontario and I believe Alberta, I’m not sure if other provinces are offering this as well. This is also done through Life Labs through Shoppers and guarantees your results with 48 hrs and for the States it has to be done within 72 hrs. To do the free one can take up to 7 days to get the results which won’t work. The one at Shoppers is specifically for travel. I purchased mine awhile ago for my trip that was supposed to have been mid April but I will use it for my September trip now. To come home if you go to Maingate it is free for the test and you receive your results usually within 48 hrs. I believe the test when you land is free.


----------



## Carolynleanne

KNovacovschi said:


> The test before leaving Canada is $200 if you are in Ontario and I believe Alberta, I’m not sure if other provinces are offering this as well. This is also done through Life Labs through Shoppers and guarantees your results with 48 hrs and for the States it has to be done within 72 hrs. To do the free one can take up to 7 days to get the results which won’t work. The one at Shoppers is specifically for travel. I purchased mine awhile ago for my trip that was supposed to have been mid April but I will use it for my September trip now. To come home if you go to Maingate it is free for the test and you receive your results usually within 48 hrs. I believe the test when you land is free.


It's almost $400 here in BC


----------



## bcwife76

Carolynleanne said:


> It's almost $400 here in BC


It's $199+tax on the LifeLabs website for BC for pre departure travel:

https://www.lifelabs.com/flyclear/?myProvince=bc


----------



## Carolynleanne

bcwife76 said:


> It's $199+tax on the LifeLabs website for BC for pre departure travel:
> 
> https://www.lifelabs.com/flyclear/?myProvince=bc


WHOA! This must be new!!! I hadn't seen this yet. Thank you for sharing.


----------



## pigletto

I don’t think test prices will  stay that high once we are allowed to travel freely. One, because people will lose it if it stays that high and two because it will become a huge market and companies are probably poised and ready to offer better prices .


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

It shouldn't even be a requirement once fully vaccinated.


----------



## TammyLynn33

I can’t help wondering what they will do for those who haven’t been able to be vaccinated yet ( when borders open  under 12 specifically ) vs those who have been vaccinated ?  
DS DD and I will be vaccinated I just wonder what will the littles have to do? Test each way ? Quarantine ? So many questions ..


----------



## SleeplessInTO

pigletto said:


> I don’t think test prices will  stay that high once we are allowed to travel freely. One, because people will lose it if it stays that high and two because it will become a huge market and companies are probably poised and ready to offer better prices .


I’m surprised that Air Canada hasn’t already partnered with a company to offer testing at the airport. Hypothetical: One hour turnaround guaranteed. Just show up 4 hours ahead of time and, if negative, you fly. If positive, rebook your flight with $100 admin fee.


----------



## NewYKRunner

TammyLynn33 said:


> I can’t help wondering what they will do for those who haven’t been able to be vaccinated yet ( when borders open  under 12 specifically ) vs those who have been vaccinated ?
> DS DD and I will be vaccinated I just wonder what will the littles have to do? Test each way ? Quarantine ? So many questions ..


I've been wondering that too.  That's why I wonder about a Covid passport - there are people who are not able to get vaccines - so what do they do?  The only way I can see it being 'fair' is by country, if a certain country has acceptable vaccination and transmission rates etc., then travelers are allowed in?


----------



## Carolynleanne

TammyLynn33 said:


> I can’t help wondering what they will do for those who haven’t been able to be vaccinated yet ( when borders open  under 12 specifically ) vs those who have been vaccinated ?
> DS DD and I will be vaccinated I just wonder what will the littles have to do? Test each way ? Quarantine ? So many questions ..


This is my question too. My husband and I will be vaccinated. We have three kids under the age of 9, so what did they do?


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

I just read that Pfizer is opening to kids 6 months+. Not sure when exactly that will happen though.


----------



## TammyLynn33

I found this interesting , acc to CDC , fully vaxxed Americans need to have a negative test before returning on a flight back to the USA 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vaccinated.html


----------



## ottawamom

Of course they don't want a variant coming back into the country. Travel anywhere, even the United States is going to be challenging until this virus is squashed. Gone are the days of popping into the States for a quick getaway.

We are still under an "Essential Only" travel advisory. The more people take "non-essential" trips the longer its going to take to get out to the other side of all this. Stay home and lets kick this thing in the butt. Worldwide.


----------



## NewYKRunner

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> I just read that Pfizer is opening to kids 6 months+. Not sure when exactly that will happen though.


Last I heard Pfizer and Moderna were going to start trials.  I think it'll be awhile yet.


----------



## pigletto

ottawamom said:


> Of course they don't want a variant coming back into the country. Travel anywhere, even the United States is going to be challenging until this virus is squashed. Gone are the days of popping into the States for a quick getaway.
> 
> We are still under an "Essential Only" travel advisory. The more people take "non-essential" trips the longer its going to take to get out to the other side of all this. Stay home and lets kick this thing in the butt. Worldwide.


I think the vast majority , if not all of us,  are discussing when the non essential travel restrictions are lifted .


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

https://globalnews.ca/news/7819221/pfizer-biontech-vaccine-babies-trial/
By July, the first data for 5-12 year-olds could be available.


----------



## wdwmom3

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> https://globalnews.ca/news/7819221/pfizer-biontech-vaccine-babies-trial/
> By July, the first data for 5-12 year-olds could be available.



Yay! We want to go to Disney in October and would love if my youngest is partially vaccinated by then.  But at least it sounds like the end of the year is a real possibility.


----------



## Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina

NewYKRunner said:


> Just shy of that again today.  According to the link below, I'm guessing in approximately a week Canada could have as many people vaccinated as the US (percentage of population) with at least one dose.  The US has way more people vaccinated with a second dose, though.
> 
> https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations



Not according to this chart:

Covid Vaccine Tracker

As of the time of this post, doses administered per 100 people:  USA = 80,  Canada = 46


----------



## azrivest

The World Health Organization is encouraging not to vaccinate the 11 and under group :

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coron...ots-instead-of-vaccinating-children-1.5428056
I'm all for helping out other countries, as this pandemic won't be over as long as variants pop up all over the globe. Really hope the "vaccine passport" won't be required for children tho.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

The Baltimore cruise port is getting ready to open. Heck, maybe I could drive down there versus fly to FL and take a cruise, then drive back!  At this point I am up for anything! LOL


----------



## NewYKRunner

NewYKRunner said:


> Just shy of that again today.  According to the link below, I'm guessing in approximately a week Canada could have as many people vaccinated as the US (percentage of population) with at least one dose.  *The US has way more people vaccinated with a second dose, though.*
> 
> https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations





Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina said:


> Not according to this chart:
> 
> Covid Vaccine Tracker
> 
> As of the time of this post, doses administered per 100 people:  USA = 80,  Canada = 46



You're comparing different stats, though.  My last sentence probably explains the difference, the US has way more people vaccinated with a second dose.

Edit:  And I'm sure each website pulls slightly different numbers for whatever reason.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Doesn't the US have like 40% with two doses versus Canada with...3%?


----------



## NewYKRunner

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> Doesn't the US have like 40% with two doses versus Canada with...3%?


Probably, the US has a lot of people fully vaccinated for sure.


----------



## NewYKRunner

For those worried about delayed second doses:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/covid-19-pfizer-second-dose-delay-more-antibodies-study-1.6026765


----------



## Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina

Today's update from Bloomberg.

Trudeau Government Begins Work on Reopening U.S.-Canada Border - Bloomberg


----------



## SleeplessInTO

Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina said:


> Today's update from Bloomberg.
> 
> Trudeau Government Begins Work on Reopening U.S.-Canada Border - Bloomberg


I’m paywalled for that one but this link worked for me.
https://financialpost.com/news/economy/trudeau-government-begins-work-on-reopening-u-s-canada-border


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Yea, nothing new in that article.  I've seen ones like that before now.  We won't be opening to the US until September, at least.


----------



## NewYKRunner

COVID-19 Tracker Canada - Vaccination Tracker (covid19tracker.ca) 

Holy cow, 436,443 vaccinations today


----------



## Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> Yea, nothing new in that article.  I've seen ones like that before now.  We won't be opening to the US until September, at least.



There's LOTS new on the US side of the border today.   The CDC's announcement that fully vaccinated individuals no longer need to wear a mask is HUGE, and I suspect Mr. Trudeau will be facing some sharply increasing pressure to formulate a plan to reopen the borders, whether in stages or otherwise.  Speaking solely of my own situation,  it's going to be hard for Canada to justify keeping me (a Canadian citizen who is 14 days+ past being fully vaccinated) from traveling home without being subject to a 14 day self quarantine when the CDC says I'm so safe that I don't even need to be masked (indoors or out).

It will be interesting to see what transpires from here.


----------



## NewYKRunner

Well we do tend to follow what the US does a lot of the time.   Sounds like those CDC announcements caused some kerfuffle as well.


----------



## bcwife76

Listening to Tam today and the 75% one dose/20% two dose, I don't think they have any intention of (a) dropping masks and (b) reopening the border for quite some time. And I was so optimistic last week when the PM stated international travel this summer 'may happen'. Ha.


----------



## suse66

Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina said:


> There's LOTS new on the US side of the border today. The CDC's announcement that fully vaccinated individuals no longer need to wear a mask is HUGE, and I suspect Mr. Trudeau will be facing some sharply increasing pressure to formulate a plan to reopen the borders, whether in stages or otherwise. Speaking solely of my own situation, it's going to be hard for Canada to justify keeping me (a Canadian citizen who is 14 days+ past being fully vaccinated) from traveling home without being subject to a 14 day self quarantine when the CDC says I'm so safe that I don't even need to be masked (indoors or out).


That's my thought exactly. I am finally seeing a light at the end of the tunnel and believe borders will open sooner than we think.


NewYKRunner said:


> Well we do tend to follow what the US does a lot of the time. Sounds like those CDC announcements caused some kerfuffle


I am really, really hoping that things improve as we move in the same direction.


bcwife76 said:


> Listening to Tam today and the 75% one dose/20% two dose, I don't think they have any intention of (a) dropping masks and (b) reopening the border for quite some time. And I was so optimistic last week when the PM stated international travel this summer 'may happen'. Ha.


I find Tam to be so negative. Honestly I don't put a lot of stock in what she says considering how badly the beginning of the pandemic was handled. I am feeling much more optimistic about my potential August trip than I was. The next 4-6 weeks will tell us a lot more about what will happen next. Let's hope it's good news.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

We might have Canadian travel this summer, but I can't see International without the current restrictions. What the US does has nothing to do with Canada. They are miles ahead of getting out of this mess.  It's apple to oranges at this point.

Edit to add: Do you think US tourists are going to wear a mask in Canada when they don't have to in the US?


----------



## Jrb1979

IMO the border should stay closed til the vast majority of Canadians are vaccinated. I say this due to the new guidelines the CDC put in place and that many places are dropped mask mandates way before the majority are vaccinated.


----------



## Susan2771

US-Canada Border Reopening: Trudeau Government Begins Talks - Bloomberg


----------



## Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina

Jrb1979 said:


> IMO the border should stay closed til the vast majority of Canadians are vaccinated. I say this due to the new guidelines the CDC put in place and that many places are dropped mask mandates way before the majority are vaccinated.



The new guidelines that the CDC has announced indicate that fully vaccinated individuals can resume pre-pandemic activities.

When You’ve Been Fully Vaccinated | CDC 

The majority of people in MANY states in the USA *are* fully vaccinated.  Our state is already over 55% vaccinated, and just opened vaccines to the 12-16 age group last week....so we should continue to trend upwards.  Citizens here can obtain a vaccine at walk in clinics throughout the state, without an appointment, free of charge, and there are plenty to go around.

As a fully vaccinated person, according to the CDC (who has been the #1 guiding resource on Covid 19 safety throughout the pandemic) I am no longer a risk to others.  As a Canadian living abroad, it no longer makes sense (if you are following the science and the data) to impose quarantine restrictions on me if I return home, especially if *I* am willing to assume the risk of being among my unvaccinated (or only partially vaccinated, with extended pauses between doses) countrymen.

I could accept the extended separation when the risks were known, documented and proven.  I love my country as much as anyone who still lives there.....Canada is my home, and its where everyone I love will continue to reside.   I want to keep my fellow Canadians safe at all costs.  But when the recommendations are followed and the risks are gone, I see no benefit in keeping a border closed out of an abundance of fear.  Have restrictions and requirements to cross?  Absolutely!  I wouldn't want it any other way.  I'm happy to provide proof of my vaccination status at the border.  I'm happy to submit to a Covid test both coming and going as an extra precaution.  But keep the borders closed indefinitely to those full vaccinated individuals who even the CDC agrees pose no risk?  Families, tourism, and trade have all suffered long enough.


----------



## Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> Edit to add: Do you think US tourists are going to wear a mask in Canada when they don't have to in the US?



I don't see visitors to Canada ignoring mask regulations any more than they would ignore any other rules of the country.  Visitors from Britain don't drive on the opposite side of the road just because they do so at home.  Travelers from the USA still follow speed limit guidelines while in Canada, even though they are slower than in many US states.   Canadian tourists wouldn't let their 19 year olds drink in an American restaurant where the age limit is different.  As the old saying goes, "When in Rome.....".    If people want or need to visit, they will follow whatever mask regulations are currently in place in those communities.


----------



## ottawamom

@Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina, what if you as a fully vaccinated person have Covid (asymptomatic) and bring that into the  country where it can now spread among partially or not yet vaccinated people? Having a negative test today does not guarantee that you won't cross the border with Covid. And how do the guards at the border assess whether you have been legitimately vaccinated. The passport will be a huge negotiation between the two countries. It's not all black and white, easy to solve. While the CDC governs things in the states it truly has no bearing on how things are done in this country. 

It is a pain and we all want to be able to do what we used to be able to do but we just have to be patient a little longer.


----------



## Donald - my hero

Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina said:


> The majority of people in MANY states in the USA *are* fully vaccinated.  Our state is already over 55% vaccinated, and just opened vaccines to the 12-16 age group last week....so we should continue to trend upwards.  *Citizens here can obtain a vaccine at walk in clinics throughout the state, without an appointment, free of charge, and there are plenty to go around.*
> 
> I could accept the extended separation when the risks were known, documented and proven.  I love my country as much as anyone who still lives there.....Canada is my home, and its where everyone I love will continue to reside.   I want to keep my fellow Canadians safe at all costs.  But when the recommendations are followed and the risks are gone, I see no benefit in keeping a border closed out of an abundance of fear.  Have restrictions and requirements to cross?  Absolutely!  I wouldn't want it any other way.  I'm happy to provide proof of my vaccination status at the border.  I'm happy to submit to a Covid test both coming and going as an extra precaution.  *But keep the borders closed indefinitely to those full vaccinated individuals who even the CDC agrees pose no risk?*



*I agree with most of what you've said here but want to comment on the 2 things I've highlighted in your post

We do NOT have the ability to get vaccinated with the same ease that you have been due to supply. We are at the mercy of the supply chain and there's no way around it, this is not the time to fix it or discuss how we got here, we just need to deal with the circumstances. Our vaccine rates are moving forward at a better pace now but if you look at THIS WEBSITE you can see that as a country we only have ~ 3% of our entire country fully vaccinated, we have a LOOONG way to go yet. Our mid-late summer mark is only for 1st doses administered but we will get there.

The border won't be closed indefinitely but we need to give our population a chance to get vaccinated before that happens. Don't forget that none of the vaccines offer 100% protection, so you could still get ill (the VOC are terrible buggers!) or even with the best precautions in place possibly infect someone here (not enough study time to determine if a vaccinated person can transmit) 

**** This is directed to everyone now:
I get that this is frustrating and that we've all reached the end of our ropes, heck even hubby and I as extreme introverts are itchy to go somewhere, ANYWHERE, but we're still on a stay-at-home order in Ontario. Yes, we need to open our borders again but we have to wait a bit longer. When i get frustrated i pull up news articles from  a year ago when even the thought of a vaccine, never mind multiple, was just a dream & we had only started to loosen lockdown restrictions. Then i take a step back, take some deep breaths and thank the scientific and medical communities that brought us this far. Just hang in a bit longer everyone and keep protecting everyone.*


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina said:


> I don't see visitors to Canada ignoring mask regulations any more than they would ignore any other rules of the country.  Visitors from Britain don't drive on the opposite side of the road just because they do so at home.  Travelers from the USA still follow speed limit guidelines while in Canada, even though they are slower than in many US states.   Canadian tourists wouldn't let their 19 year olds drink in an American restaurant where the age limit is different.  As the old saying goes, "When in Rome.....".    If people want or need to visit, they will follow whatever mask regulations are currently in place in those communities.



Um, okay. Driving on the wrong side of the road, illegal drinking, etc are a bit much for examples, but whatever.

I can guarantee you that the little shops on the Halifax waterfront will NOT want to police tourists who won't wear a mask in their shop or social distance.


----------



## Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina

ottawamom said:


> @Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina, what if you as a fully vaccinated person have Covid (asymptomatic) and bring that into the  country where it can now spread among partially or not yet vaccinated people? Having a negative test today does not guarantee that you won't cross the border with Covid. And how do the guards at the border assess whether you have been legitimately vaccinated. The passport will be a huge negotiation between the two countries. It's not all black and white, easy to solve. While the CDC governs things in the states it truly has no bearing on how things are done in this country.
> 
> It is a pain and we all want to be able to do what we used to be able to do but we just have to be patient a little longer.



But what is the statistical probability, or even POSSIBILITY, of that REALLY happening?

John Hopkins University, which I would assume most would agree is a credible and reliable source, has this to say:

New Data on COVID-19 Transmission by Vaccinated Individuals - COVID-19 - Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health (jhsph.edu) 

Plus if you add in the extra layer of a Covid test, it would reduce the ridiculously miniscule number even more.  Heck, for fun, make 2 Covid tests 48 hours a part a requirement.....then what is the probability that I (or any fully vaccinated individual) would carry the virus into the country?

Statistically speaking, I would be at a higher risk of getting in a serious car accident on the 401 on the 7 hour drive home.

Canada was more than willing to follow the CDC's guidelines at the beginning of the pandemic when they called for quarantines, masking, social distancing and other restrictions....why would they not be as willing to follow their guidelines as we turn the corner on transmitting the virus?


----------



## wdwmom3

I’m not seeing everything in this thread cause I have ignored some posters.  But I would just like to remind everyone please don’t get political.  We don’t need more threads closed.


----------



## Donald - my hero

Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina said:


> Canada was more than willing to follow the CDC's guidelines at the beginning of the pandemic when they called for quarantines, masking, social distancing and other restrictions....why would they not be as willing to follow their guidelines as we turn the corner on transmitting the virus?



*It's because as I pointed out, we're not ABLE to get vaccinated yet. This isn't indefinite, just temporary until we can catch up!! YOU might have the opportunity but we simply don't*


----------



## Donald - my hero

wdwmom3 said:


> I’m not seeing everything in this thread cause I have ignored some posters.  But I would just like to remind everyone please don’t get political.  We don’t need more threads closed.


*Thanks for the reminder to ignore, like most of us, I'm walking a very thin line right now and simple things easily slip my mind *


----------



## wdwmom3

Donald - my hero said:


> *Thanks for the reminder to ignore, like most of us, I'm walking a very thin line right now and simple things easily slip my mind *



It’s amazing what it does for the sanity.   And it’s kind of funny seeing posts and having no idea why people are talking about certain things lol.


----------



## Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina

Donald - my hero said:


> *I agree with most of what you've said here but want to comment on the 2 things I've highlighted in your post
> 
> We do NOT have the ability to get vaccinated with the same ease that you have been due to supply. We are at the mercy of the supply chain and there's no way around it, this is not the time to fix it or discuss how we got here, we just need to deal with the circumstances. Our vaccine rates are moving forward at a better pace now but if you look at THIS WEBSITE you can see that as a country we only have ~ 3% of our entire country fully vaccinated, we have a LOOONG way to go yet. Our mid-late summer mark is only for 1st doses administered but we will get there.
> 
> The border won't be closed indefinitely but we need to give our population a chance to get vaccinated before that happens. Don't forget that none of the vaccines offer 100% protection, so you could still get ill (the VOC are terrible buggers!) or even with the best precautions in place possibly infect someone here (not enough study time to determine if a vaccinated person can transmit)
> 
> **** This is directed to everyone now:
> I get that this is frustrating and that we've all reached the end of our ropes, heck even hubby and I as extreme introverts are itchy to go somewhere, ANYWHERE, but we're still on a stay-at-home order in Ontario. Yes, we need to open our borders again but we have to wait a bit longer. When i get frustrated i pull up news articles from  a year ago when even the thought of a vaccine, never mind multiple, was just a dream & we had only started to loosen lockdown restrictions. Then i take a step back, take some deep breaths and thank the scientific and medical communities that brought us this far. Just hang in a bit longer everyone and keep protecting everyone.*



Oh, I am well aware that Canada's roll out of the vaccine has been woefully slow, and continues to lag behind most developed countries.  My heart has been heavy with worry for my family members in Ontario.  My son's fiance is a teacher and only just received her first shot this past week, with her second scheduled for August 30th.  August!!!  

I am not, nor have I ever, advocated for fully open borders at the very beginning.  But taking fear out of the equation and looking at actual statistical and scientific data, including those conducted by the CDC, there is little justification to restrict a fully vaccinated citizen (who hails from an area with lower transmission and death rates) from entering Canada at this point, as long as that person is willing to accept the risk posed by unvaccinated Canadians.     

This isn't directed at you, Jacqueline, but I saw the remark from another poster above, and I'm not sure why an opposing viewpoint has to be taken as "political".  There are no "politics" in my statements.....I have made no comments on the current administration in either country, or how that is factored into this whole mess.  I like to look at the science because that has no "party".     If someone can give me statistical data to support their claims of imminent danger by a vaccinated individual, I'm all ears.   The use of the ignore button is fine.....it honestly doesn't hurt my feelings.....because I'm not looking to secure "likes".   I appreciate a thoughtful discussion and debate, especially on a topic that is so relevant to us all.


----------



## Gigi22

wdwmom3 said:


> It’s amazing what it does for the sanity.   And it’s kind of funny seeing posts and having no idea why people are talking about certain things lol.



I know what you mean!   I too enjoy the Ignore function!


----------



## pigletto

I’ve got so many people on ignore since this pandemic started  it’s like I have the boards to myself some days   .
I’m kidding . Sort of .


----------



## ellbell

Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina said:


> Oh, I am well aware that Canada's roll out of the vaccine has been woefully slow, and continues to lag behind most developed countries.  My heart has been heavy with worry for my family members in Ontario.  My son's fiance is a teacher and only just received her first shot this past week, with her second scheduled for August 30th.  August!!!
> 
> I am not, nor have I ever, advocated for fully open borders at the very beginning.  But taking fear out of the equation and looking at actual statistical and scientific data, including those conducted by the CDC, there is little justification to restrict a fully vaccinated citizen (who hails from an area with lower transmission and death rates) from entering Canada at this point, as long as that person is willing to accept the risk posed by unvaccinated Canadians.
> 
> This isn't directed at you, Jacqueline, but I saw the remark from another poster above, and I'm not sure why an opposing viewpoint has to be taken as "political".  There are no "politics" in my statements.....I have made no comments on the current administration in either country, or how that is factored into this whole mess.  I like to look at the science because that has no "party".     If someone can give me statistical data to support their claims of imminent danger by a vaccinated individual, I'm all ears.   The use of the ignore button is fine.....it honestly doesn't hurt my feelings.....because I'm not looking to secure "likes".   I appreciate a thoughtful discussion and debate, especially on a topic that is so relevant to us all.


I think the issue is that we can't even leave our homes in Ontario yet.  Our provincial borders are closed.  Travel is limited in our own country with quarantines happening if you travel to the maritimes.  We can't think about opening our international borders until our country is open to the people who already live here.  If it isn't safe for us to have our stores open for the locals to shop we can't invite guests in.


----------



## Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina

ellbell said:


> I think the issue is that we can't even leave our homes in Ontario yet.  Our provincial borders are closed.  Travel is limited in our own country with quarantines happening if you travel to the maritimes.  We can't think about opening our international borders until our country is open to the people who already live here.  If it isn't safe for us to have our stores open for the locals to shop we can't invite guests in.



Yes, I am aware of that.  I wasn't suggesting they open the borders tomorrow.  The Ontario lockdown is currently set to end June 2nd (hopefully it does....yes, I know it may be extended again).  It sure would be nice if the powers that be used this time to be proactive and make a plan.  Citizens can't be told indefinitely to "hold on a little longer" if there's nothing for them to work toward.


----------



## Jrb1979

Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina said:


> Yes, I am aware of that.  I wasn't suggesting they open the borders tomorrow.  The Ontario lockdown is currently set to end June 2nd (hopefully it does....yes, I know it may be extended again).  It sure would be nice if the powers that be used this time to be proactive and make a plan.  Citizens can't be told indefinitely to "hold on a little longer" if there's nothing for them to work toward.


There is a goal. 75% with one dose and 20% fully vaccinated.


----------



## ellbell

Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina said:


> Yes, I am aware of that.  I wasn't suggesting they open the borders tomorrow.  The Ontario lockdown is currently set to end June 2nd (hopefully it does....yes, I know it may be extended again).  It sure would be nice if the powers that be used this time to be proactive and make a plan.  Citizens can't be told indefinitely to "hold on a little longer" if there's nothing for them to work toward.


It isn't just Ontario to consider though.  Our whole country has travel restrictions.  In BC you can't travel out of your own specific health unit area.  In the Maratimes if you enter any of those provinces even from a neighboring province you need to quarantine for 2 weeks and just because our stay at home orders in Ontario ends doesn't mean Doug Ford is going to open up our neighboring borders he is pushing for more travel bans.  Even if our stay at home orders end on June 2nd (which is unlikely) it doesn't mean our restaurants and stores and other non essential businesses open. I don't think the land border will be opening soon.  I see July possibly even August at the earliest.


----------



## TammyLynn33

pigletto said:


> I’ve got so many people on ignore since this pandemic started  it’s like I have the boards to myself some days   .
> I’m kidding . Sort of .



Test Test... come in ? You there ? Making sure it’s not me.. lol 
It’s all about the tone 

my ex is the same way how it inconveniences him to come into Canada ( he was last here in Sept) and quarantine and ive guaranteed him the lockdowns have  inconveniences me and the rest of Canadians more but we get it.. we don’t like it but we get it..


----------



## TammyLynn33

Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina said:


> Yes, I know the whole country currently has travel restrictions.  I specifically referenced Ontario because that's the province that was initially mentioned by the poster who I was replying to.
> 
> I'm going to bow out of this discussion (again) because its no longer a discussion.   Canada will open the borders when they open the borders, but I personally think (based on the rising number of media reports of outside pressure) that it may be sooner than many people here seem to think.   Of course, I might be wrong.....and I'm sure, considering the number of posters who found the need to announce their childish delight in flexing their muscles by hitting the ignore button, that lots of people will be happy to come back and rub my nose in that prediction if I'm indeed incorrect....which is completely fine, I have broad shoulders lol.
> 
> I think that pressure from countries outside of Canada.....and not just the USA, either......will become very prevalent in the coming days.   And I think that global pressure will be tough for the current administration to ignore.    Again, time will tell.
> 
> If anyone can find the data to support the statistical likelihood of a vaccinated individual catching and spreading the virus contrary to the CDC findings, they are welcome to PM me.  As a seeker of knowledge, I would love to review it.



i don’t see pressure coming from Canadian politicians to open , at this point the pressure seems one sided .

on the CDC website as of May 1, 2021 they are no longer collecting data on fully vaccinated people getting Covid unless it requires hospitalization or tragically results in death. ( Nor has the US been contact tracing so the spread will never be known )
So data at least from a CDC standpoint on what you are asking will not be available.
IMO not tracking this data is very misleading when it comes to providing truth re vaccine efficacy and possible spread .


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

azrivest said:


> The World Health Organization is encouraging not to vaccinate the 11 and under group :
> 
> https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coron...ots-instead-of-vaccinating-children-1.5428056
> I'm all for helping out other countries, as this pandemic won't be over as long as variants pop up all over the globe. Really hope the "vaccine passport" won't be required for children tho.


This says children and adolescents not just 11 and up?...interesting. WHO is basically saying kids are at very low risk from covid complications and instead of vaccinating them send the vaccines to poorer countries that need the doses for their at risk adult population if I’m understanding this correctly?


pigletto said:


> I’ve got so many people on ignore since this pandemic started  it’s like I have the boards to myself some days   .
> I’m kidding . Sort of .


Ok so I must be in lala land on my own because...what?  there is an ignore button here? What? Haha. 
I am not ignoring anyone (yet lol) but I have to say overall during the pandemic there are a lot of people that I view in a different light now like those neighbours behind me  throwing a get together with their friends right now even during stay at home order... while openly bashing non-mask wearers on FB or posting reminders to only have Easter with people in your own household. Oh the hypocrites. Lol
Or the ones spewing the consiparcy theory nonsense everywhere. At no other time did I feel the division of people and see others’ true colours come out as during the pandemic...


----------



## Gigi22

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> This says children and adolescents not just 11 and up?...interesting. WHO is basically saying kids are at very low risk from covid complications and instead of vaccinating them send the vaccines to poorer countries that need the doses for their at risk adult population if I’m understanding this correctly?
> 
> Ok so I must be in lala land on my own because...what?  there is an ignore button here? What? Haha.
> I am not ignoring anyone (yet lol) but I have to say overall during the pandemic there are a lot of people that I view in a different light now like those neighbours behind me  throwing a get together with their friends right now even during stay at home order... while openly bashing non-mask wearers on FB or posting reminders to only have Easter with people in your own household. Oh the hypocrites. Lol
> Or the ones spewing the consiparcy theory nonsense everywhere. At no other time did I feel the division of people and see others’ true colours come out as during the pandemic...


----------



## Gigi22

Yeah.  Kind of sad isn’t it?  And then just think of all the disagreements you can have even with your nearest and dearest while you try to figure out what you are allowed to do under the most recent version of your province’s rules.  This too will pass.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Every time DH comes in with some “info” on why masks don’t work or why the vaccines could be trouble down there road, I run to the bathroom and lock the door lol I may be stuck listening to him but he can’t see all of the eyeball rolls I am giving him!


----------



## samsteele

Just catching up with this thread and clear people are entrenched in their positions. The one thing we can all agree with is we want the pandemic over and our lives returned to normal. But I have concerns we aren't out of the woods yet.

Think I mentioned some months ago that I watch UK nursing instructor Dr. John Campbell on youtube. Here's the link. If it cycles, just google Dr. John Campbell on youtube. It's his latest video released this past Saturday.






Don't be put off by the teaching doctorate. This means he communicates directly and much more effectively than 99% of our Cdn experts have. His latest news is that the Indian variant is likely to burn through the UK population despite their high rate of 2 dose Astra Zeneca. Good news is that the fully vaccinated are unlikely to become deathly ill. The bad news is that those falling under that threshold may. Canadians fall under that threshold with a bare 3% of our pop fully vaccinated. 

This has been reinforced by Sir John Bell - one of the Astra Zeneca pioneers - who was critical last week of Canada's reversal on AZ. The variants - specifically the Indian variant right now - are formidable. While I've had great respect for the CDC for decades, I'm puzzled by their recent announcement that fully vaccinated citizens will be fine to take the masks off. I understand the social need for this and that there has to be a light at the end of the tunnel, a carrot, etc to motivate people to take experimental vaccines for the good of society. But this leaves large masses of people who either can't or won't take their 2 shots. Perhaps the CDC has made a practical decision to just move on in the face of vax hesitancy. 

Bottom line is it just isn't really over. I also agree that we can't live in fear and at some point borders need to fully open to regular citizens (they've been leaking like a sieve for private jet passengers, gov't officials and unhappy snowbirds) but people need to get to where they need to go. The issue is when that will happen. I don't know that now is that time. The next few months may teach us some really hard sobering lessons. Like we haven't had enough of those. I really hope I'm wrong. (edited above to connect some dots)


----------



## azrivest

I want to believe that no one (or mostly no one) is purposefully being disruptful or mean-spirited in this whole situation. Everyone is trying to get through this pandemic in the best way for us as individuals, parents, families and friends. We adhere to the beliefs that comfort us and validate our opinions. But we can't force our own set of values on others unfortunately. Even if that means watching neighbours drink wine with friends or seeing idiots demonstrate in the streets against health measures (at least they're outside I guess?) 

As Olaf would say, all good things, all good things! We will go back to Disney one day!


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

azrivest said:


> View attachment 575436
> 
> I want to believe that no one (or mostly no one) is purposefully being disruptful or mean-spirited in this whole situation. Everyone is trying to get through this pandemic in the best way for us as individuals, parents, families and friends. We adhere to the beliefs that comfort us and validate our opinions. But we can't force our own set of values on others unfortunately. Even if that means watching neighbours drink wine with friends or seeing idiots demonstrate in the streets against health measures (at least they're outside I guess?)
> 
> As Olaf would say, all good things, all good things! We will go back to Disney one day!


Not sure if you referred to what I said about neighbours having a party, but for the record I’m not forcing my values or beliefs on them or anyone else.  What I said is that I see a lot of people in a different light now... and how divided we are as a society. Unfortunately. It’s ok to think this is not ok when my kid is looking out the window asking why they can have 8 kids on a trampoline and he’s not allowed to go to a friend’s house. I am somewhere in the middle with all the restrictions, and while I may get frustrated seeing certain things there is no making comments to anyone, not forcing anything.
Anyway. This thread is about when will border reopen. I think we can all agree not right now but hopefully in the next few months. Some will be more comfortable than others to travel, to ditch the masks etc. I’m certainly not judging but for my family we will go as soon as it’s allowed. You’re absolutely right, we will get back. Light at the end of the tunnel for sure now. Maybe I’m naive but hey... trying not to be all doom and gloom.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

samsteele said:


> Just catching up with this thread and clear people are entrenched in their positions. The one thing we can all agree with is we want the pandemic over and our lives returned to normal. But I have concerns we aren't out of the woods yet.
> 
> Think I mentioned some months ago that I watch UK nursing instructor Dr. John Campbell on youtube. Here's the link. If it cycles, just google Dr. John Campbell on youtube. It's his latest video released this past Saturday.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't be put off by the teaching doctorate. This means he communicates directly and much more effectively than 99% of our Cdn experts have. His latest news is that the Indian variant is likely to burn through the UK population despite their high rate of 2 dose Astra Zeneca. Good news is that the fully vaccinated are unlikely to become deathly ill. The bad news is that those falling under that threshold may. Canadians fall under that threshold with a bare 3% of our pop fully vaccinated.
> 
> This has been reinforced by Sir John Bell - one of the Astra Zeneca pioneers - who was critical last week of Canada's reversal on AZ. The variants - specifically the Indian variant right now - are formidable. While I've had great respect for the CDC for decades, I'm puzzled by their recent announcement that fully vaccinated citizens will be fine to take the masks off. I understand the social need for this and that there has to be a light at the end of the tunnel, a carrot, etc to motivate people to take experimental vaccines for the good of society. But this leaves large masses of people who either can't or won't take their 2 shots. Perhaps the CDC has made a practical decision to just move on in the face of vax hesitancy.
> 
> Bottom line is it just isn't really over. I also agree that we can't live in fear and at some point borders need to fully open to regular citizens (they've been leaking like a sieve for private jet passengers, gov't officials and unhappy snowbirds) but people need to get to where they need to go. The issue is when that will happen. I don't know that now is that time. The next few months may teach us some really hard sobering lessons. Like we haven't had enough of those. I really hope I'm wrong. (edited above to connect some dots)


Most of us here (if not all) agree NOW is not the time but come Fall border should reopen.
As for the India variants (or any other hot spot) border should be sealed shut to anyone who has even just visited there and not just flights stopped. I don’t think this is happening right now? All loopholes like having a few days stopover in another county should be thought of, that’s really the only way. On the other hand our current hotel quarantine (although I generally disagree with it) should help. Let’s try to be hopeful. At this point in the pandemic (15 months?) I really am trying to hold on to any positive.
I really do think we are close to being out of the woods.
I get to book my vaccine tomorrow (Ontario)
Yey!


----------



## tinkerone

Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina said:


> I am not, nor have I ever, advocated for fully open borders at the very beginning.  But taking fear out of the equation and looking at actual statistical and scientific data, including those conducted by the CDC, there is little justification to restrict a fully vaccinated citizen (who hails from an area with lower transmission and death rates) from entering Canada at this point, as long as that person is willing to accept the risk posed by unvaccinated Canadians.
> 
> This isn't directed at you, Jacqueline, but I saw the remark from another poster above, and I'm not sure why an opposing viewpoint has to be taken as "political".  There are no "politics" in my statements.....I have made no comments on the current administration in either country, or how that is factored into this whole mess.  I like to look at the science because that has no "party".     If someone can give me statistical data to support their claims of imminent danger by a vaccinated individual, I'm all ears.   The use of the ignore button is fine.....it honestly doesn't hurt my feelings.....because I'm not looking to secure "likes".   I appreciate a thoughtful discussion and debate, especially on a topic that is so relevant to us all.


I guess my issue with the CDC is that it _has_ become political and as such I don't trust it as much as I had.  CDC is being bullied by politics to come out and say/do things they may not want to.  Just look at what Florida is trying to get them to do with the cruising industry and that is just one example.  I'm afraid, at least for me, the CDC doesn't hold the respect it once did.  

No one is sure if asymptomatic people can pass Covid if fully vaccinated.  There hasn't been enough time to be sure of anything.  People who have been fully vaccinated are still getting Covid, Bill Maher being the latest example, so why would we not think they could still pass Covid?  Saying they can't is just a dream at this point.

I want to travel just as bad as anyone.  I had to cancel several vacations last year and I may have to cancel our vacations booked for October.  It saddens me however I don't want the boarders opened until there is clear CLEAR consensus by all and not just something one country decides so it can make it's people happy.  I want all my family and friends protected.  I want every person I pass to be protected.  If the boarders have to stay closed to do that, I'm good and I don't care how others are offended by it.


----------



## azrivest

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> Not sure if you referred to what I said about neighbours having a party, but for the record I’m not forcing my values or beliefs on them or anyone else.


Yup, totally agree with you on this. Was also referring to all this petty talk about ignoring each other and what not. Not everyone on this forum will agree over everything, and that's okay. We're all allowed our opinions.



HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> Anyway. This thread is about when will border reopen. I think we can all agree not right now but hopefully in the next few months. Some will be more comfortable than others to travel, to ditch the masks etc. I’m certainly not judging but for my family we will go as soon as it’s allowed. You’re absolutely right, we will get back. Light at the end of the tunnel for sure now. Maybe I’m naive but hey... trying not to be all doom and gloom.


I also agree with you that it probably won't be until the Fall, at least not until a higher % of Canadians have had their 2nd dose.


----------



## Jrb1979

We all want to travel again soon. For me it doesn't bother me that much cause I never planned for vacations outside of Canada this summer. I made vacation plans around road trips here.


----------



## pigletto

I think biggest problem is that we’ve become  completely polarized on these issues and it’s taking away from decent conversation and adding to frustration for everyone.
Lately it feels like you can only be lumped into two groups .. Group A ) socially responsible , science believing , rule following Canadian do gooders , or  Group B ) rogue covid deniers , ruining for it for the masses , non mask wearing ,lockdown rally attending ,  science denying morons .

And there are a lot of people who fall squarely in those two groups . But the problem here is the rest of us are on a spectrum and we are being pushed into one position or another without much thought for our point of view.

It IS possible to be a good citizen and still question the decisions of our leaders and experts. In fact I would argue that healthy discourse and questioning the status quo is what makes us better Canadians. I grew up in a very academic family with a mother who is a brilliant healthcare practitioner and diagnostician , a brother who went to med school , a neurosurgeon in the USA for a brother in law , a sister in law who has been pulled into our ICU to work with Covid patients. I KNOW it’s real , I know we need these public health measures in place but I still question some of the measures  and the unintended but very real effects that they are having on our society as a whole .

I worry that the “Keep Eveything Locked Down !”  mantra works  largely for the privileged middle classes who can AFFORD to keep locked down . Social support payments can’t go on forever . Hardworking Canadians with children and families to support are sinking lower and lower below that poverty line and will not be able to come back .

So do we do this forever ? Every variant , every wave , every new discovery pushes us back inside , relying support to put food on the table ? I can most definitely see the concerns with taking those choices away from people who just want to work again , support themselves and make choices in their own lives . I get the frustration .

I have followed every rule to the letter and I want to fight this pandemic as much as anyone but there will come a time that even I just can’t do this anymore . A time when I will no longer support taking away people’s livelihoods and autonomy . Do I know what the answer is ? Absolutely not . But I truly do not believe locking people in their homes will be the answer much longer .

I did a bad job being a decent person last night @Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina and I made a joke and tried to stay out of the fray but I feel badly about it. I’m sorry . I don’t agree with a lot of your views lately but I DO know you to be a kind person who just lost your mom and I can’t imagine your frustrations with not being able to be in your home country right now . I’m really sorry and promise to do better.

I know all of you to be kind a decent people and I would sure love to go back to talking about trips . I truly hope I haven’t offended anyone . Just wanted to say some stuff that’s been on my mind for awhile.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

@pigletto very well said!


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

pigletto said:


> I think biggest problem is that we’ve become  completely polarized on these issues and it’s taking away from decent conversation and adding to frustration for everyone.
> Lately it feels like you can only be lumped into two groups .. Group A ) socially responsible , science believing , rule following Canadian do gooders , or  Group B ) rogue covid deniers , ruining for it for the masses , non mask wearing ,lockdown rally attending ,  science denying morons .
> 
> And there are a lot of people who fall squarely in those two groups . But the problem here is the rest of us are on a spectrum and we are being pushed into one position or another without much thought for our point of view.
> 
> It IS possible to be a good citizen and still question the decisions of our leaders and experts. In fact I would argue that healthy discourse and questioning the status quo is what makes us better Canadians. I grew up in a very academic family with a mother who is a brilliant healthcare practitioner and diagnostician , a brother who went to med school , a neurosurgeon in the USA for a brother in law , a sister in law who has been pulled into our ICU to work with Covid patients. I KNOW it’s real , I know we need these public health measures in place but I still question some of the measures  and the unintended but very real effects that they are having on our society as a whole .
> 
> I worry that the “Keep Eveything Locked Down !”  mantra works  largely for the privileged middle classes who can AFFORD to keep locked down . Social support payments can’t go on forever . Hardworking Canadians with children and families to support are sinking lower and lower below that poverty line and will not be able to come back .
> 
> So do we do this forever ? Every variant , every wave , every new discovery pushes us back inside , relying support to put food on the table ? I can most definitely see the concerns with taking those choices away from people who just want to work again , support themselves and make choices in their own lives . I get the frustration .
> 
> I have followed every rule to the letter and I want to fight this pandemic as much as anyone but there will come a time that even I just can’t do this anymore . A time when I will no longer support taking away people’s livelihoods and autonomy . Do I know what the answer is ? Absolutely not . But I truly do not believe locking people in their homes will be the answer much longer .
> 
> I did a bad job being a decent person last night @Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina and I made a joke and tried to stay out of the fray but I feel badly about it. I’m sorry . I don’t agree with a lot of your views lately but I DO know you to be a kind person who just lost your mom and I can’t imagine your frustrations with not being able to be in your home country right now . I’m really sorry and promise to do better.
> 
> I know all of you to be kind a decent people and I would sure love to go back to talking about trips . I truly hope I haven’t offended anyone . Just wanted to say some stuff that’s been on my mind for awhile.



YES! To all of what you said


----------



## samsteele

Must watch CTV interview with Sir John Bell. Cdn born pioneer of AZ. For anyone who has had their 1st AZ shot and trying to decide what to do for the 2nd, good info to have. I'm going to get my 2nd AZ shot as soon as I can get it. I had the idea that I might be able to up my odds - esp in light of an expected 3rd booster - by mixing with Pfizer or Moderna. This put that idea out of my mind. This week I'll be calling my local Shoppers where I got my AZ shot a few weeks ago and checking online to see when I can get my 2nd AZ shot. Here's the link. If it cycles, google ctv news Sir John Bell. Interviewed by Evan Solomon and dated today - May 16.


----------



## ottawamom

The variant originally from India scares the bejeebers out of me as do any other new variants which may have the opportunity to develop. I sincerely hope all the vaccines we have to date will be able to keep up with the variants, otherwise we could all be back to stage 1 again.

Eye opening video @samsteele. Thanks for posting it. I think I know what direction I'm heading now for dose #2.


----------



## von Monster

@samsteele - thanks for posting that! Very informative, and it was nice to see actual facts presented as opposed to the typical clickbait on vaccines the news tends to present. I found that despite the Canadian news presenting the 'mixed vaccine approach' as a great option this week that the lead researcher in the very study the were referring to is opposed to it extremely interesting.

Also PBS News Hour just did a nice piece on what a border reopening might look like, and reasons why it needs to happen. Thought I'd share it as I found it very well done.

Vaccinations are picking up. Is it time to reopen the US-Canada border? | PBS NewsHour Weekend


----------



## TammyLynn33

von Monster said:


> @samsteele - thanks for posting that! Very informative, and it was nice to see actual facts presented as opposed to the typical clickbait on vaccines the news tends to present. I found that despite the Canadian news presenting the 'mixed vaccine approach' as a great option this week that the lead researcher in the very study the were referring to is opposed to it extremely interesting.
> 
> Also PBS News Hour just did a nice piece on what a border reopening might look like, and reasons why it needs to happen. Thought I'd share it as I found it very well done.
> 
> Vaccinations are picking up. Is it time to reopen the US-Canada border? | PBS NewsHour Weekend



interesting . I just watched it and to me it illustrated the biggest problem with the pandemic . Me me me..
The woman who was living with her family in Canada I can’t I can’t I can’t 
The biz owner in Windsor my biz my biz my biz 
The mayor of N Falls our town our town ..
Where’s the family who can’t see their own loved ones in the same city but in long term care ? 
Where’s the businesses that aren’t still operating not like Windsor’s machining company ? A 30% loss is nothing compared to biz that have totally shut down for good .
Where’s the mayor of Brampton and other hard hit cities ? You think he wants birders open right now ? 
Everyone is struggling but everyone is worried about themselves instead of looking at the big picture ..


----------



## pigletto

TammyLynn33 said:


> interesting . I just watched it and to me it illustrated the biggest problem with the pandemic . Me me me..
> The woman who was living with her family in Canada I can’t I can’t I can’t
> The biz owner in Windsor my biz my biz my biz
> The mayor of N Falls our town our town ..
> Where’s the family who can’t see their own loved ones in the same city but in long term care ?
> Where’s the businesses that aren’t still operating not like Windsor’s machining company ? A 30% loss is nothing compared to biz that have totally shut down for good .
> Where’s the mayor of Brampton and other hard hit cities ? You think he wants birders open right now ?
> Everyone is struggling but everyone is worried about themselves instead of looking at the big picture ..


In fairness the mayor of Niagara Falls he represents tens of thousands of people in seasonal tourism employment and our area has been decimated . We had the highest unemployment in the province pre pandemic , it’s going to be a blood bath now .  I read this weekend in the Globe and Mail that for this year Niagara sunk further than anywhere in Canada for affordability with our housing market. So we now have the added issues of people not having the jobs to afford their unaffordable homes , taxes and bills .
My husband posted a personal assistant position to cover a mat leave and got 126 applicants , most of whom were service industry and or overqualified .
So I’m not a fan of the Niagara mayor for many reasons but he is looking at a bigger picture . Our homeless population is exploding too . These are those unintended consequences we are going to feel for years to come that I’m not sure we fully grasp on a message board for leisure vacationing .


----------



## wdwmom3

TammyLynn33 said:


> interesting . I just watched it and to me it illustrated the biggest problem with the pandemic . Me me me..
> The woman who was living with her family in Canada I can’t I can’t I can’t
> The biz owner in Windsor my biz my biz my biz
> The mayor of N Falls our town our town ..
> Where’s the family who can’t see their own loved ones in the same city but in long term care ?
> Where’s the businesses that aren’t still operating not like Windsor’s machining company ? A 30% loss is nothing compared to biz that have totally shut down for good .
> Where’s the mayor of Brampton and other hard hit cities ? You think he wants birders open right now ?
> Everyone is struggling but everyone is worried about themselves instead of looking at the big picture ..



Very well said.


----------



## von Monster

TammyLynn33 said:


> interesting . I just watched it and to me it illustrated the biggest problem with the pandemic . Me me me..
> The woman who was living with her family in Canada I can’t I can’t I can’t
> The biz owner in Windsor my biz my biz my biz
> The mayor of N Falls our town our town ..
> Where’s the family who can’t see their own loved ones in the same city but in long term care ?
> Where’s the businesses that aren’t still operating not like Windsor’s machining company ? A 30% loss is nothing compared to biz that have totally shut down for good .
> Where’s the mayor of Brampton and other hard hit cities ? You think he wants birders open right now ?
> Everyone is struggling but everyone is worried about themselves instead of looking at the big picture ..



Interestingly enough you took that video the complete opposite of the way I did -



> The woman who was living with her family in Canada I can’t I can’t I can’t



It's literally a block from here house. If you don't see why she'd be getting upset after, what, 14 months you lack empathy.



> The biz owner in Windsor my biz my biz my biz





> Where’s the businesses that aren’t still operating not like Windsor’s machining company ? A 30% loss is nothing compared to biz that have totally shut down for good .



I'm assuming he'd like to not follow them? Add in a 30% loss of business usually equals layoffs from what would be a highly skilled and paying job so I'm also guessing his employees would also not like to? I don't think allowing what may be a few dozen **fully vaccinated** inspectors across in addition to the literally **10s of thousands** of truck drivers/government employees/cross border workers every month who *don't have to be either vaccinated or quarantine* at all is a huge ask.



> The mayor of N Falls our town our town ..



I'm guessing seeing a man who has to watch thousands of his constituents go bankrupt and businesses close doesn't elicit sympathy from you?



> Where’s the family who can’t see their own loved ones in the same city but in long term care ?



?. I don't have any family in LTC, but I do have a co-worker who does and he goes in every week to check on them as a caregiver. This is Ontario mind you but I would have thought that was similar everywhere? But if that's the case for you that's horrible and you have my sympathy.



> Where’s the mayor of Brampton and other hard hit cities ? You think he wants birders open right now ?



Patrick Brown is likely the most level headed and 'in-front' politician we have in Canada. It's a real shame he was forced out of provincial politics as everyone I know from there loves the guy. He even has an article about him in The Globe and Mail about how well he's done. I full expect if asked he would agree with having a plan on how the border is going to open - Brampton is full of small manufactures like the 'biz owner in Windsor'



> Everyone is struggling but everyone is worried about themselves instead of looking at the big picture ..



A phased re-opening of the border is part of the big picture. Isn't it? I think everyone in the video talked about making a plan, deciding what needs to happen, and doing it as safely as possible. American caseloads are far smaller than ours, they're our biggest trading partner, best international ally, defence partner, and the closest think you could consider to being a 'big-brother' to our country. Planning on normalizing relations should be something being done, sooner rather than later. I don't think anyone said immediately.


----------



## TammyLynn33

von Monster said:


> Interestingly enough you took that video the complete opposite of the way I did -
> 
> 
> 
> It's literally a block from here house. If you don't see why she'd be getting upset after, what, 14 months you lack empathy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm assuming he'd like to not follow them? Add in a 30% loss of business usually equals layoffs from what would be a highly skilled and paying job so I'm also guessing his employees would also not like to? I don't think allowing what may be a few dozen **fully vaccinated** inspectors across in addition to the literally **10s of thousands** of truck drivers/government employees/cross border workers every month who *don't have to be either vaccinated or quarantine* at all is a huge ask.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm guessing seeing a man who has to watch thousands of his constituents go bankrupt and businesses close doesn't elicit sympathy from you?
> 
> 
> 
> ?. I don't have any family in LTC, but I do have a co-worker who does and he goes in every week to check on them as a caregiver. This is Ontario mind you but I would have thought that was similar everywhere? But if that's the case for you that's horrible and you have my sympathy.
> 
> 
> 
> Patrick Brown is likely the most level headed and 'in-front' politician we have in Canada. It's a real shame he was forced out of provincial politics as everyone I know from there loves the guy. He even has an article about him in The Globe and Mail about how well he's done. I full expect if asked he would agree with having a plan on how the border is going to open - Brampton is full of small manufactures like the 'biz owner in Windsor'
> 
> 
> 
> A phased re-opening of the border is part of the big picture. Isn't it? I think everyone in the video talked about making a plan, deciding what needs to happen, and doing it as safely as possible. American caseloads are far smaller than ours, they're our biggest trading partner, best international ally, defence partner, and the closest think you could consider to being a 'big-brother' to our country. Planning on normalizing relations should be something being done, sooner rather than later. I don't think anyone said immediately.



I have sympathy for everybody. This sucks for all of us in our own unique ways . We are all  suffering and making sacrifices and some of them are ultimate sacrifices.


----------



## Pumpkin1172

Our government needs to step up and come up with a plan...PERIOD.  They have not set bench markers, how to jump start and open our economies again...NOTHING of value has come from anyone's lips.  They have failed miserably at every turn during this whole pandemic.  They have proved that they don't have a plan.  ZERO plans/benchmarks, steps about how to reopen.  It's been CRICKETS!!!!  Nothing but silence even when asked in parliament from opposing members about their reopening strategies.  Heck, we can't reopen a boarder when our economies are not even open yet.  

When the boarder start to reopen...that's when we will be able to reopen our provinces again.  They are relying on vaccinations and lockdowns to keep the numbers of infections down.  That's their plan.  They have given us any other information other than that!!!!  

I believe that with the CDC announcement, this will put a HUGE amount of pressure on the government to come up with a plan.  There is no more of the wait and see approach.  

We all are soooooooooooooooooooooo tired.  We are just doing what we can to get through this with some scrap of our mental capacity intact.


----------



## Mikey15

Pumpkin1172 said:


> Our government needs to step up and come up with a plan...PERIOD.  They have not set bench markers, how to jump start and open our economies again...NOTHING of value has come from anyone's lips.  They have failed miserably at every turn during this whole pandemic.  They have proved that they don't have a plan.  ZERO plans/benchmarks, steps about how to reopen.  It's been CRICKETS!!!!  Nothing but silence even when asked in parliament from opposing members about their reopening strategies.  Heck, we can't reopen a boarder when our economies are not even open yet.
> 
> When the boarder start to reopen...that's when we will be able to reopen our provinces again.  They are relying on vaccinations and lockdowns to keep the numbers of infections down.  That's their plan.  They have given us any other information other than that!!!!
> 
> I believe that with the CDC announcement, this will put a HUGE amount of pressure on the government to come up with a plan.  There is no more of the wait and see approach.
> 
> We all are soooooooooooooooooooooo tired.  We are just doing what we can to get through this with some scrap of our mental capacity intact.



It's all close to happening. It's already been in the news that cross-border talks are happening now. But we don't need an arbitrary benchmark ahead of that, especially since it's likely to end up being a negotiated timing.

The closure has been extended 30 days at a time, hitting 420 days as of May 21st (current expiry). I'm thinking we're going to see another 30 days extension announced imminently (maybe with fully-vaccinated exceptions) and then by the time that expires June 20th, there won't be a need to extend the closure again. By June 20th every Canadian who wants a shot will have had access to at least their 1st one, and a good chunk will have had their 2nd.


----------



## ellbell

Mikey15 said:


> It's all close to happening. It's already been in the news that cross-border talks are happening now. But we don't need an arbitrary benchmark ahead of that, especially since it's likely to end up being a negotiated timing.
> 
> The closure has been extended 30 days at a time, hitting 420 days as of May 21st (current expiry). I'm thinking we're going to see another 30 days extension announced imminently (maybe with fully-vaccinated exceptions) and then by the time that expires June 20th, there won't be a need to extend the closure again. By June 20th every Canadian who wants a shot will have had access to at least their 1st one, and a good chunk will have had their 2nd.


I'm ok with an extension as long as something changes.  Give us a date or a plan or allow a certain group through.  I don't care what the change is as long as there is progress that corresponds with the progress being made through vaccinations.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Mikey15 said:


> .... By June 20th every Canadian who wants a shot will have had access to at least their 1st one, *and a good chunk will have had their 2nd.*



I don't think that is accurate.


----------



## Mikey15

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> I don't think that is accurate.



We're capable of hitting 75/20 (20% of eligible population fully vaccinated) by the first day of Summer. It depends on where the 1st doses stop, and how quickly provinces switch gears to booking people for their 2nds.

If we do hit 1-in-5 I'd consider that "a good chunk" though I recognize people see things differently.


----------



## TammyLynn33

Maybe it’s just me ( and my kids are dual and haven’t seen family including my boys dad  since sept so I clearly have more than just vacations at stake here )  but I would like to see everything else open first and know there is a solid safe plan  for the kids to re-enter schools in September than simply opening  the borders.


----------



## wdwmom3

TammyLynn33 said:


> Maybe it’s just me ( and my kids are dual and haven’t seen family including my boys dad  since sept so I clearly have more than just vacations at stake here )  but I would like to see everything else open first and know there is a solid safe plan  for the kids to re-enter schools in September than simply opening  the borders.



Agreed.   We need to worry about opening things at home before we open up borders.  Anyone who is a citizen can enter the country, they just need to quarantine.  So as of now it’s really only tourists that we aren’t allowing in.   

And what’s worse.  Them announcing a “plan” or a date and then that doesn’t happen if things don’t improve.  Or them waiting to make decisions until the situation is a little clearer.


----------



## pigletto

wdwmom3 said:


> Agreed.   We need to worry about opening things at home before we open up borders.  Anyone who is a citizen can enter the country, they just need to quarantine.  So as of now it’s really only tourists that we aren’t allowing in.
> 
> And what’s worse.  Them announcing a “plan” or a date and then that doesn’t happen if things don’t improve.  Or them waiting to make decisions until the situation is a little clearer.


My husband works in municipal government and we debate this point all the time . I can see both sides . I don’t think you give dates and absolutes because it ruins your credibility when not achieved . I also strongly believe these are our elected representatives and “when I say so “ should be reserved for parents of toddlers . I, and every other tax paying , law abiding citizen deserve to know the benchmarks that need to be reached in order move forward . Why the secrecy?  I’m not asking for it to be opened NOW, I’m asking to know what the plan is . I don’t think that’s unreasonable.


----------



## pigletto

TammyLynn33 said:


> Maybe it’s just me ( and my kids are dual and haven’t seen family including my boys dad  since sept so I clearly have more than just vacations at stake here )  but I would like to see everything else open first and know there is a solid safe plan  for the kids to re-enter schools in September than simply opening  the borders.


Why does one preclude the other ? We are in the land border opening thread so people are discussing the  reopening of the land border . I think we would all like to see our own country safe and our kids go back to school safely . I don’t get why we can’t discuss both .


----------



## von Monster

pigletto said:


> My husband works in municipal government and we debate this point all the time . I can see both sides . I don’t think you give dates and absolutes because it ruins your credibility when not achieved . I also strongly believe these are our elected representatives and “when I say so “ should be reserved for parents of toddlers . I, and every other tax paying , law abiding citizen deserve to know the benchmarks that need to be reached in order move forward . Why the secrecy?  I’m not asking for it to be opened NOW, I’m asking to know what the plan is . I don’t think that’s unreasonable.





pigletto said:


> Why does one preclude the other ? We are in the land border opening thread so people are discussing the  reopening of the land border . I think we would all like to see our own country safe and our kids go back to school safely . I don’t get why we can’t discuss both .



Agree on both points. I see no reason in a liberal democracy that the government's cannot provide a staged plan with whatever internal benchmarks they're using to decide. It honestly not that hard. If it's vaccine passports, cool just say so. 75% vaccinated? Ok - say so. 

I also have zero idea why people come to a travel board, focused on destinations in the USA, open the border opening thread and post 'never'. Or at least something close to that.


----------



## bcwife76

pigletto said:


> Why does one preclude the other ? We are in the land border opening thread so people are discussing the  reopening of the land border . I think we would all like to see our own country safe and our kids go back to school safely . I don’t get why we can’t discuss both .


Agree. And let's  not forget there are some places where schools have been open the entire time since September. They haven't closed once in BC. Yes we have options (blended learning, virtual 100%) but the majority of us here have had our kids in school full time since September.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Ours almost made it the whole year.  They have been at home the last two weeks, and honestly, I can see it staying that way for the remainder of the year.


----------



## TommyJK

von Monster said:


> Agree on both points. I see no reason in a liberal democracy that the government's cannot provide a staged plan with whatever internal benchmarks they're using to decide. It honestly not that hard. If it's vaccine passports, cool just say so. 75% vaccinated? Ok - say so.



I think the criteria will be much more complex than just the % of people vaccinated.  It'll be a combination of many variables, something along the lines of:

X% of people vaccinated
below Y # of people in the Hospitals and a decrease in that number for a period of time
below Z # of people in ICU and a decrease in that number for a period of time
below Q% testing positivity rate and a decrease in that number for a period of time
a Reproductive # below 1 for a particular period of time

And probably many more key metrics.

I honestly don't think they know/have nailed down what those numbers are,  and the numbers will be vastly different from one province to the next but you can't open the borders until *all* provinces are at whatever the many threshholds will be because you can't really have different border restrictions on a per province basis.

All that being said I don't see any reason why they *shouldn't *have thresholds sorted out by now and why they couldn't share those to give us all a reliable estimate to what the goal lines are.


----------



## ellbell

TommyJK said:


> I think the criteria will be much more complex than just the % of people vaccinated.  It'll be a combination of many variables, something along the lines of:
> 
> X% of people vaccinated
> below Y # of people in the Hospitals and a decrease in that number for a period of time
> below Z # of people in ICU and a decrease in that number for a period of time
> below Q% testing positivity rate and a decrease in that number for a period of time
> a Reproductive # below 1 for a particular period of time
> 
> And probably many more key metrics.
> 
> I honestly don't think they know/have nailed down what those numbers are,  and the numbers will be vastly different from one province to the next but you can't open the borders until *all* provinces are at whatever the many threshholds will be because you can't really have different border restrictions on a per province basis.
> 
> All that being said I don't see any reason why they *shouldn't *have thresholds sorted out by now and why they couldn't share those to give us all a reliable estimate to what the goal lines are.


The federal government decides the border opening and it has nothing to do with the provinces.  If they do need to have all that in place for the border to open then it's time for them to know the numbers.  We as tax paying citizens deserve to know the plan at this point.


----------



## TommyJK

ellbell said:


> The federal government decides the border opening and it has nothing to do with the provinces.  If they do need to have all that in place for the border to open then it's time for them to know the numbers.  We as tax paying citizens deserve to know the plan at this point.



You're right in that the provinces technically do not make a determination on the border re-opening, but to say it has nothing to do with the provinces wouldn't be accurate IMO.  What is going on in ALL of the provinces collectively will dictate if the feds decide to go ahead and allow the border to re-open.  If nearly all of the provinces are doing incredibly well on all of their various numbers but one or two provinces are still struggling with spread, hospitalizations/ICU etc. they aren't going to open the border.

So basically ALL provinces will have to be in the "clear" before the Feds decide to allow the border to re-open.  And what "clear" means is a factor/combination of all of the things I mentioned.

Now my guess is that either a) no one internally on the government side has those metrics nailed down/agreed upon what those should be (the science advisors probably have one set of criteria in mind while the politicians have another) or  b) they do have some numbers internally but don't want to share them for fear of "being wrong" in hindsight and then getting blamed if something goes wrong.

But I agree.  We as citizens by now should indeed have been given SOME form of goals shared so we know what we're working towards.


----------



## Carolynleanne

pigletto said:


> My husband works in municipal government and we debate this point all the time . I can see both sides . I don’t think you give dates and absolutes because it ruins your credibility when not achieved . I also strongly believe these are our elected representatives and “when I say so “ should be reserved for parents of toddlers . I, and every other tax paying , law abiding citizen deserve to know the benchmarks that need to be reached in order move forward . Why the secrecy?  I’m not asking for it to be opened NOW, I’m asking to know what the plan is . I don’t think that’s unreasonable.


YES!!!!!


----------



## Pumpkin1172

edited


----------



## damo

And this thread will be closed in 3,2,1 ...


----------



## Aladora

Duplicate posting to the Flying to the Us thread.

https://www.cheknews.ca/canada-will...e-u-s-border-reopens-trudeau-suggests-796032/


----------



## bcwife76

I commented on the Covid and the Rest of us Thread to the article you posted,but thought I'd put my response here as well - assuming he means the 75/20 that Tam was speaking to last week? I've been following the Covid tracker quite closely and we average about 1% a day, so if we are just over 46% today then 75% is only about a month away.....BUT, we also need to get those second doses up!


----------



## Mikey15

bcwife76 said:


> I commented on the Covid and the Rest of us Thread to the article you posted,but thought I'd put my response here as well - assuming he means the 75/20 that Tam was speaking to last week? I've been following the Covid tracker quite closely and we average about 1% a day, so if we are just over 46% today then 75% is only about a month away.....BUT, we also need to get those second doses up!



The 75/20 that Tam & PHAC have been talking about is % of eligible population (which was 16+, now 12+), not total, so we're actually even closer! 

We were at 52.4% of 12+ yesterday, 75% could be reached by end of May, and 75/20 could by June 20th.


----------



## sweethannah

August 10th is my birthday, I should have been in Disneyland 1 year ago to that very day so I'm taking that as a SIGN!


----------



## bcwife76

sweethannah said:


> August 10th is my birthday, I should have been in Disneyland 1 year ago to that very day so I'm taking that as a SIGN!


Well that is a wonderful day for a birthday! Our oldest is also August 10th (can't believe she will be 13 this year!!) celebrating at Disneyland would be perfect


----------



## ellbell

The border closure was just extended another month with no word on any time frame or changes


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

I think they only do it once per month anyways. Hopefully in another month they might have a better idea if it will even open at all this summer.


----------



## suse66

Mikey15 said:


> The closure has been extended 30 days at a time, hitting 420 days as of May 21st (current expiry). I'm thinking we're going to see another 30 days extension announced imminently (maybe with fully-vaccinated exceptions) and then by the time that expires June 20th, there won't be a need to extend the closure again. By June 20th every Canadian who wants a shot will have had access to at least their 1st one, and a good chunk will have had their 2nd.


That's exactly where I think we will be at. I am hoping for open borders by June 21st.


pigletto said:


> Why does one preclude the other ? We are in the land border opening thread so people are discussing the reopening of the land border . I think we would all like to see our own country safe and our kids go back to school safely . I don’t get why we can’t discuss both .


I think we will be in a very different place by early to mid summer. I am feeling optimistic about the end of quarantine, open borders and in person school this fall.


----------



## pigletto

If I had to guess I think it’s looking more and more likely that the border will open up to non essential travellers in the fall . I would say September or October maybe. Totally just guessing here but I think we will have that 75% by then . I’m cautiously optimistic about a January 22 trip.


----------



## igrsod

I hope that the border opens up sometime this summer.  If we continue to lower case numbers and increase the % vaccinated, I think this will happen.  We can't stay isolated forever.  Many businesses rely on the free travel across our border.  It's been long enough.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Just found this article:

*75% of Canadians need to be vaccinated before Canada-U.S. border reopens: Trudeau*


https://news.paxeditions.com/news/b...e-vaccinated-canada-us-border-reopens-trudeau
Now, does that mean one dose or two doses? When I hear "vaccinated", I think of two doses.


----------



## ellbell

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> Just found this article:
> 
> *75% of Canadians need to be vaccinated before Canada-U.S. border reopens: Trudeau*
> 
> 
> https://news.paxeditions.com/news/b...e-vaccinated-canada-us-border-reopens-trudeau
> Now, does that mean one dose or two doses? When I hear "vaccinated", I think of two doses.


Trudeau has mentioned previously that it's one dose. 


pigletto said:


> If I had to guess I think it’s looking more and more likely that the border will open up to non essential travellers in the fall . I would say September or October maybe. Totally just guessing here but I think we will have that 75% by then . I’m cautiously optimistic about a January 22 trip.


I think we will be 75% vaccinated well before september or october.  We are doing about a percentage a day so even if it needs to be 2 doses at this point that can be achieved by the end of July.


----------



## pigletto

I’d be more than happy to be wrong in this case ! I think after the last year I like to set the bar low and then I’m not disappointed.
Have they said it will be based on one dose? I had always just kind of assumed we needed the protection from two doses .


----------



## bcwife76

pigletto said:


> I’d be more than happy to be wrong in this case ! I think after the last year I like to set the bar low and then I’m not disappointed.
> Have they said it will be based on one dose? I had always just kind of assumed we needed the protection from two doses .


None of the articles out there are very indepth and are quite vague (or maybe JT himself was being a bit vague). I think it's 75% first dose, 20% second dose, going by what Dr Tam said last week.


----------



## Pumpkin1172

It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the next month with immunizations ramping up still, and hopefully they start opening it up for people to get their second shots too soon.  

It will also be interesting to see how this plays out in the US and see how many people get the second dose.  

I wonder if the boarder reopening will "coincide" with lessening restrictions?  It is going to be an interesting 6-8 weeks to see what all happens here with vaccinations, restrictions, boarders, masking etc etc etc etc.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

I just posted this in the Vaccination thread as well, but thought it could reside here too:

*Canadians can drive to U.S. to get vaxxed & avoid quarantine*

https://news.paxeditions.com/news/buzz/canadians-can-drive-us-get-vaxed-avoid-quarantine


----------



## TammyLynn33

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> I just posted this in the Vaccination thread as well, but thought it could reside here too:
> 
> *Canadians can drive to U.S. to get vaxxed & avoid quarantine*
> 
> https://news.paxeditions.com/news/buzz/canadians-can-drive-us-get-vaxed-avoid-quarantine




New York still has residency requirements in case anyone was thinking


----------



## quandrea

TammyLynn33 said:


> New York still has residency requirements in case anyone was thinking


Ugh!!!!


----------



## TammyLynn33

quandrea said:


> Ugh!!!!



I know I just looked. I think I just lucked out for DD but only because she has medical issues ..


----------



## ellbell

Pumpkin1172 said:


> It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the next month with immunizations ramping up still, and hopefully they start opening it up for people to get their second shots too soon.
> 
> It will also be interesting to see how this plays out in the US and see how many people get the second dose.
> 
> I wonder if the boarder reopening will "coincide" with lessening restrictions?  It is going to be an interesting 6-8 weeks to see what all happens here with vaccinations, restrictions, boarders, masking etc etc etc etc.


My best friends mom who is a social worker and got her first shot in March got scheduled for her second on June 9 yesterday


----------



## pigletto

TammyLynn33 said:


> New York still has residency requirements in case anyone was thinking


Really ? They didn’t mention that on the  Buffalo news this morning .

eta).Not doubting you , just thought they should have mentioned that part


----------



## Aladora

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> I just posted this in the Vaccination thread as well, but thought it could reside here too:
> 
> *Canadians can drive to U.S. to get vaxxed & avoid quarantine*
> 
> https://news.paxeditions.com/news/buzz/canadians-can-drive-us-get-vaxed-avoid-quarantine



This was just posted:

https://www.cheknews.ca/u-s-border-...seeking-vaccine-could-be-denied-entry-797008/


----------



## TammyLynn33

pigletto said:


> Really ? They didn’t mention that on the  Buffalo news this morning .
> 
> eta).Not doubting you , just thought they should have mentioned that part



if you go on state of New York website and look up Covid vaccination eligibility it states residents of and of you go farther to book It will ask your zip code..I’m sure there’s ways around it by let’s just say fudging addresses etc but that’s what is written
My ex in PA says they aren’t asking for any paperwork you just kinda show up, and get vaxxed. 
Sons friend got in FL but they are there for the summer. ? Sounds like certain states are extending invites and those are the ones they are referring to perhaps ?


----------



## ottawamom

This all sounds a awful lot like the rich who don't want to wait for a procedure here in Canada go to the US and pay to have it done privately. It's becoming a two tiered medical issue. Whatever happened to "We're all in this together" ?


----------



## Mickey&JoshNut

This was posted on CTV News website.  Apparently US Border Agents are denying entry to Canadians trying to cross to get vaccinated.  I guess the right hand forgot to talk to the left hand.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coron...canadians-looking-to-get-vaccinated-1.5434903


----------



## ottawamom

It's all a little slimy. The medical exemption was originally intended for people who were travelling back and forth for life saving treatments that were not available in Canada. Vaccine hunters doing the "vaccine thing" are going to put those people in jeopardy. 

Just my two cents. (Better make those nickels, we don't have cents here anymore)


----------



## Donald - my hero

*I've been stewing over this for most of the day and I hope people will understand where I'm coming from with this post.

While I stand firmly on the side of getting vaccines in arms and I applauded what happened a few weeks ago with both the reserve that straddled the border to allow a drive thru clinic and (correct me if I'm wrong with the state here)  Montana? that offered vaccines to truckers, I do not approve of the general population crossing the border to get vaccinated. If in fact it's for medical reasons I'm really hoping our country is able to accommodate those individuals but if not then yes,  let them handle it like they did in Alberta,  drive across,  don't get out of your car, stick the needle in and then come home. 

the reason I'm upset? I've finally been able to access the treatments I need to treat my medication resistant Bipolar disorder but I need to carry a notarized letter from the doctor who's overseeing the procedures in case I get pulled over by the police. I need to be able to provide proof that I'm disobeying the stay-at-home order to receive medical treatments in my own province that's literally saving my life.  Every single day for close to an entire year I've made the decision to get out of bed and keep living. 

I had to wait until i was able to get a vaccine before I could make the daily trips into the hottest spot in the province and I say a prayer as I pass one of the Amazon fulfillment centres and a massive UPS  facility that all the workers and their families have also been fortunate enough to get jabbed.  I'm not looking for sympathy just stating the facts.   I get that people are anxious to see the other side of this and the nature of this platform means wanting to travel as well but personally I don't think this is the way to solve our vaccine problems.*


----------



## quandrea

Donald - my hero said:


> *I've been stewing over this for most of the day and I hope people will understand where I'm coming from with this post.
> 
> While I stand firmly on the side of getting vaccines in arms and I applauded what happened a few weeks ago with both the reserve that straddled the border to allow a drive thru clinic and (correct me if I'm wrong with the state here)  Montana? that offered vaccines to truckers, I do not approve of the general population crossing the border to get vaccinated. If in fact it's for medical reasons I'm really hoping our country is able to accommodate those individuals but if not then yes,  let them handle it like they did in Alberta,  drive across,  don't get out of your car, stick the needle in and then come home.
> 
> the reason I'm upset? I've finally been able to access the treatments I need to treat my medication resistant Bipolar disorder but I need to carry a notarized letter from the doctor who's overseeing the procedures in case I get pulled over by the police. I need to be able to provide proof that I'm disobeying the stay-at-home order to receive medical treatments in my own province that's literally saving my life.  Every single day for close to an entire year I've made the decision to get out of bed and keep living.
> 
> I had to wait until i was able to get a vaccine before I could make the daily trips into the hottest spot in the province and I say a prayer as I pass one of the Amazon fulfillment centres and a massive UPS  facility that all the workers and their families have also been fortunate enough to get jabbed.  I'm not looking for sympathy just stating the facts.   I get that people are anxious to see the other side of this and the nature of this platform means wanting to travel as well but personally I don't think this is the way to solve our vaccine problems.*


Agreed. I would like to see all provinces follow the guidance from Health Canada in the same manner however, to ensure equitable distribution of said vaccine. I’ve patiently waited for my twins’ turn to come up and that day is tomorrow. Only the powers that be have chosen to interpret Health Canada’s direction differently than other provinces. To me, that is tantamount to denying my children health care. If I could seek vaccinations elsewhere at this point, sidestepping the ridiculous and ill thought out red tape, I would in a heartbeat.


----------



## pigletto

ottawamom said:


> This all sounds a awful lot like the rich who don't want to wait for a procedure here in Canada go to the US and pay to have it done privately. It's becoming a two tiered medical issue. Whatever happened to "We're all in this together" ?


I have no intention of going because I don’t need to and every intention of waiting but I’m actually surprised that this has been turned into a morality issue. I was happy to see that people like TammyLynn or Quandreas kids could go . My understanding was it was allowed by our governments on both sides to help people with medical issues get vaccinated ( they need a note stating medical need from their health provider ). Did I miss the part where people are abusing this allowed practice ? “All in this together” for me means please go get your shot , any shot , as soon as you can . Like us , the ones who got AZ ahead of our turn because it wasn’t approved for others .
I’m not seeing the same thing you guys are. What am I missing ?

Edit ) I interpreted this move to be precisely for people in the situation that @Donald my hero  was in. I thought it was a step in the right direction .


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

@quandrea I had posted the link thinking of people like yourself where you mentioned your kids.


----------



## quandrea

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> @quandrea I had posted the link thinking of people like yourself where you mentioned your kids.


And I appreciated it. Thank you.


----------



## ottawamom

pigletto said:


> I have no intention of going because I don’t need to and every intention of waiting but I’m actually surprised that this has been turned into a morality issue. I was happy to see that people like TammyLynn or Quandreas kids could go . My understanding was it was allowed by our governments on both sides to help people with medical issues get vaccinated ( they need a note stating medical need from their health provider ). Did I miss the part where people are abusing this allowed practice ? “All in this together” for me means please go get your shot , any shot , as soon as you can . Like us , the ones who got AZ ahead of our turn because it wasn’t approved for others .
> I’m not seeing the same thing you guys are. What am I missing ?
> 
> Edit ) I interpreted this move to be precisely for people in the situation that @Donald my hero  was in. I thought it was a step in the right direction .


I agree, but we all know there will be those who go get a medical note to get them across and I fear that will ruin things for those who need to make the trip for procedures. Everyone here will have the opportunity to get their shot within the next month. And true to form the right hand forgot to ask the left hand if it was OK. (ie. get border approval)


----------



## quandrea

ottawamom said:


> I agree, but we all know there will be those who go get a medical note to get them across and I fear that will ruin things for those who need to make the trip for procedures. Everyone here will have the opportunity to get their shot within the next month. And true to form the right hand forgot to ask the left hand if it was OK. (ie. get border approval)


My kids will have to wait four months because of the poorly conceived decisions of my province.


----------



## KNovacovschi

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> I just posted this in the Vaccination thread as well, but thought it could reside here too:
> 
> *Canadians can drive to U.S. to get vaxxed & avoid quarantine*
> 
> https://news.paxeditions.com/news/buzz/canadians-can-drive-us-get-vaxed-avoid-quarantine



They said on the CHCH news tonight that the US border is not allowing Canadians to cross for vaccines even with the medical letter as they don’t deem it essential


----------



## TammyLynn33

pigletto said:


> I have no intention of going because I don’t need to and every intention of waiting but I’m actually surprised that this has been turned into a morality issue. I was happy to see that people like TammyLynn or Quandreas kids could go . My understanding was it was allowed by our governments on both sides to help people with medical issues get vaccinated ( they need a note stating medical need from their health provider ). Did I miss the part where people are abusing this allowed practice ? “All in this together” for me means please go get your shot , any shot , as soon as you can . Like us , the ones who got AZ ahead of our turn because it wasn’t approved for others .
> I’m not seeing the same thing you guys are. What am I missing ?
> 
> Edit ) I interpreted this move to be precisely for people in the situation that @Donald my hero  was in. I thought it was a step in the right direction .



Thank you Pigletto.  I toyed with the idea of crossing the border /traveling solely because my children are dual and I have an ex breathing down my neck about how awful things are in Ontario ( not just numbers but effects of lockdowns and education )  and how they “might be safer/better off there “  I’ll be blunt he’s an arrogant American a$$ but my first priority in this is to protect my kids both from communicable disease but also to keep them  here with me in this country and to maintain custody. I know he doesn’t want them realistically but those comments are bone chilling to me.  On top of regular mom stress homeschooling the two littles one with special needs and having 3 at risk outta 4 kiddos.. I haven’t slept in a year .

Jacqueline ,  I am so sorry you’ve felt scared to go to your therapy. My heart breaks for you and others whose treatments have been on hold or they aren’t for some reason able to go.. and the risks of going . I hope you are feeling better

Sending everyone strength and kudos for making it this far. We all have our own battles and this year has been far from easy on any of us .

Edited because I was asleep when I posted and mentioned wrong person. Sorry


----------



## bababear_50

TammyLynn33 FYI
it was
*Donald - my hero*  (Jacqueline) that experienced issues with Therapy not me Mel aka * bababear_50 .*


Hugs Mel


----------



## TammyLynn33

bababear_50 said:


> TammyLynn33 FYI
> it was
> *Donald - my hero*  (Jacqueline) that experienced issues with Therapy not me Mel aka * bababear_50 .*
> 
> 
> Hugs Mel


That’s what I get when I respond to posts middle of night when I can’t sleep .. I’ll edit now so sorry ha ha


----------



## quandrea

TammyLynn33 said:


> Thank you Pigletto.  I toyed with the idea of crossing the border /traveling solely because my children are dual and I have an ex breathing down my neck about how awful things are in Ontario ( not just numbers but effects of lockdowns and education )  and how they “might be safer/better off there “  I’ll be blunt he’s an arrogant American a$$ but my first priority in this is to protect my kids both from communicable disease but also to keep them  here with me in this country and to maintain custody. I know he doesn’t want them realistically but those comments are bone chilling to me.  On top of regular mom stress homeschooling the two littles one with special needs and having 3 at risk outta 4 kiddos.. I haven’t slept in a year .
> 
> Jacqueline ,  I am so sorry you’ve felt scared to go to your therapy. My heart breaks for you and others whose treatments have been on hold or they aren’t for some reason able to go.. and the risks of going . I hope you are feeling better
> 
> Sending everyone strength and kudos for making it this far. We all have our own battles and this year has been far from easy on any of us .
> 
> Edited because I was asleep when I posted and mentioned wrong person. Sorry


Sending you strength.


----------



## wdwmom3

TammyLynn33 said:


> Thank you Pigletto.  I toyed with the idea of crossing the border /traveling solely because my children are dual and I have an ex breathing down my neck about how awful things are in Ontario ( not just numbers but effects of lockdowns and education )  and how they “might be safer/better off there “  I’ll be blunt he’s an arrogant American a$$ but my first priority in this is to protect my kids both from communicable disease but also to keep them  here with me in this country and to maintain custody. I know he doesn’t want them realistically but those comments are bone chilling to me.  On top of regular mom stress homeschooling the two littles one with special needs and having 3 at risk outta 4 kiddos.. I haven’t slept in a year .
> 
> Jacqueline ,  I am so sorry you’ve felt scared to go to your therapy. My heart breaks for you and others whose treatments have been on hold or they aren’t for some reason able to go.. and the risks of going . I hope you are feeling better
> 
> Sending everyone strength and kudos for making it this far. We all have our own battles and this year has been far from easy on any of us .
> 
> Edited because I was asleep when I posted and mentioned wrong person. Sorry



Hang in there! We are almost there.  ((Hugs))


----------



## NewYKRunner

We should exceed the US in first doses per capita today.  Again remember that they have way more second doses than we do.  We are doing extremely well compared to a lot of countries.  We'll get there and we'll be able to do things soon!

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations


----------



## bcwife76

Based on how strict the reopening plan is for ON (you guys can't even get a hair cut until mid July?!!) I doubt the border will reopen to non essential travel now til the Fall....


----------



## hdrolfe

bcwife76 said:


> Based on how strict the reopening plan is for ON (you guys can't even get a hair cut until mid July?!!) I doubt the border will reopen to non essential travel now til the Fall....



Luckily the province isn't in charge of that.


----------



## bcwife76

hdrolfe said:


> Luckily the province isn't in charge of that.


Oh no, of course not, I know it's a Federal decision. I just have a hard time seeing the border reopening when you're kind of still in a lock down in ON.....but as we all know things change (daily!!!) with regards to anything Covid-related. So far all we know for sure is it's closed til June 21st so.....


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

bcwife76 said:


> Oh no, of course not, I know it's a Federal decision. I just have a hard time seeing the border reopening when you're kind of still in a lock down in ON.....but as we all know things change (daily!!!) with regards to anything Covid-related. So far all we know for sure is it's closed til June 21st so.....


I agree I can’t see it happen now, but could mid to end of august maybe. To be honest I don’t even see it happening province to province. It’s sad but we are slated for another summer of backyard bbq’s and maybe some patio dining in July (Ontario).


----------



## Average Joes

KNovacovschi said:


> They said on the CHCH news tonight that the US border is not allowing Canadians to cross for vaccines even with the medical letter as they don’t deem it essential



The Canadian federal public health agency reversed their decision that you did not have to quarantine if you just went for a vaccine. They say that vaccines are readily available in Canada so it is not an essential medical procedure.  The Detroit/Windsor bridge corporation was working on a way where you could get vaccinated without hitting customs. Thus avoiding the issue you note. That plan is dead in the water now as few would want to quarantine for two weeks.


----------



## TommyJK

Question was just asked during the Q&A period in the federal Covid-19 response update if we might be able to hope to have the border opened by labour day or to just give up.

No firm answer was given, just more of "we're continuing to work with the Biden Govenrment on eventual plans..." and "We still need to look at the ongoing vaccination rates and the case numbers..." and "We can't make any predictions yet"


----------



## Pumpkin1172

TommyJK said:


> No firm answer was given, just more of "we're continuing to work with the Biden Govenrment on eventual plans..." and "We still need to look at the ongoing vaccination rates and the case numbers..." and "We can't make any predictions yet"


  Same ole same ole phrase. I just wish they could give some kind of bench marker of what they are thinking how they plan to reopen...and yet again....crickets


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

I just need to know whether to drop hundreds of dollars on MVMCP tickets and Cirque du Soleil tickets for my December trip (if and when they are available for purchase)! ugh!!

Because eventually the whole "Covid 19 non-essential travel" thingy won't fly anymore with getting refunds when we will be the last country on earth still locked down!

*end rant*


----------



## TommyJK

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> I just need to know whether to drop hundreds of dollars on MVMCP tickets and Cirque du Soleil tickets for my December trip (if and when they are available for purchase)! ugh!!
> 
> Because eventually the whole "Covid 19 non-essential travel" thingy won't fly anymore with getting refunds when we will be the last country on earth still locked down!
> 
> *end rant*



I honestly don't see how the border would still be closed in December outside of there being some kind of severe 4th wave.  We're still on track to have everyone fully vacinated by end of September (or sooner).


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

TommyJK said:


> I honestly don't see how the border would still be closed in December outside of there being some kind of severe 4th wave.  We're still on track to have everyone fully vacinated by end of September (or sooner).



Oh, in theory, yes it should be.  But I'm concerned about the dang govt quarantine hotel, etc.


----------



## TammyLynn33

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> I just need to know whether to drop hundreds of dollars on MVMCP tickets and Cirque du Soleil tickets for my December trip (if and when they are available for purchase)! ugh!!
> 
> Because eventually the whole "Covid 19 non-essential travel" thingy won't fly anymore with getting refunds when we will be the last country on earth still locked down!
> 
> *end rant*



yep when I talked to JetBlue I got “ we flying normally now “ i tried to explain  I can’t get there to get on a plane right now .. it was pointless


----------



## NewYKRunner

488000 today. Highest yet I think?  My guess would be from the 12-17 age group getting their vaccinations. 

https://covid19tracker.ca/vaccinationtracker.html


----------



## Jrb1979

Pumpkin1172 said:


> Same ole same ole phrase. I just wish they could give some kind of bench marker of what they are thinking how they plan to reopen...and yet again....crickets


I wonder if a lot of it has to the US vaccination rate and why they are hesitant to reopen it yet.


----------



## ellbell

On the Air Canada website I was checking out their covid information and under where to get a test in Canada or the US they listed 4 sites where you could purchase tests before your trip and send them through fedex or ups and get the results back before flying back to Canada


----------



## Gigi22

Jrb1979 said:


> I wonder if a lot of it has to the US vaccination rate and why they are hesitant to reopen it yet.



I think it’s a fine mix of vaccine hesitancy in the US, the major COVID explosion  in India which impedes their fulfilling contracts to produce vaccine (they are now purchasing vaccine from other sources), vaccine nationalism in a number of countries that also impacts supply, and a hesitancy to potentially put more pressure on Canada’s health care system by opening the border for something that is after all considered “non-essential.”   Thinking the land border won’t open before we have 75% Canadian adults fully vaccinated.  Late summer?


----------



## cari12

Jrb1979 said:


> I wonder if a lot of it has to the US vaccination rate and why they are hesitant to reopen it yet.


Possibly. I think they are also concerned whether the variant that originated in India will show up in Canada and what effect  it will have.


----------



## pigletto

I agree and think all those things are a factor. It’s definitely not time yet (IMO) with the Indian variant ( which has already been found here ), third wave still at various stages in various provinces, vaccines not at their desired level yet etc. But I do think we are getting much closer and that things are looking brighter. 
I’m still betting on September or October for a start to non essential trips over the border but I’ll be pleasantly surprised with earlier.


----------



## igrsod

pigletto said:


> I agree and think all those things are a factor. It’s definitely not time yet (IMO) with the Indian variant ( which has already been found here ), third wave still at various stages in various provinces, vaccines not at their desired level yet etc. But I do think we are getting much closer and that things are looking brighter.
> I’m still betting on September or October for a start to non essential trips over the border but I’ll be pleasantly surprised with earlier.


I agree it's not quite yet.... but I think it should be allowed before the end of the summer... if things continue in the way they are right now with dropping cases and greater vaccinations.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

cari12 said:


> Possibly. I think they are also concerned whether the variant that originated in India will show up in Canada and what effect  it will have.



It is already here, correct? NB has a number of cases with that one, I believe.


----------



## damo

Gigi22 said:


> I think it’s a fine mix of vaccine hesitancy in the US, the major COVID explosion  in India which impedes their fulfilling contracts to produce vaccine (they are now purchasing vaccine from other sources), vaccine nationalism in a number of countries that also impacts supply, and a hesitancy to potentially put more pressure on Canada’s health care system by opening the border for something that is after all considered “non-essential.”   Thinking the land border won’t open before we have 75% Canadian adults fully vaccinated.  Late summer?



Yes, there isn't one "benchmark" number that will magically allow the borders to open.  It is going to be a combination of a number of factors.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

They may want to wait until school resumes as well. If they keep it closed until September, family vacations won't be taking place.


----------



## pigletto

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> They may want to wait until school resumes as well. If they keep it closed until September, family vacations won't be taking place.


And it would give more time to get as many kids (over 12) vaccinated as possible.


----------



## mamaofsix

My how things have changed since I started this thread back in February.  Looking ahead, I tend to side with those that think it will be either Sept or October when the border fully opens again.  The vaccines seems to be working well in other countries and should guard against a 4th wave next fall / winter.  Finger's crossed!


----------



## ellbell

mamaofsix said:


> My how things have changed since I started this thread back in February.  Looking ahead, I tend to side with those that think it will be either Sept or October when the border fully opens again.  The vaccines seems to be working well in other countries and should guard against a 4th wave next fall / winter.  Finger's crossed!


I think it will be sooner.  Yesterday the US reported under 14000 new cases.  That number is really small considering the population.  Our numbers also dropped 27% from a week ago. I am now thinking we will be open by August.


----------



## ottawamom

We still can't get enough vaccine quickly enough in certain regions of the country. Ottawa as an example if you need one. People here, if they are able to get an appointment, are having to wait right now until the end of June for that shot. There are still nearly 500,000 people who would like shots who have to wait to get appointments. Yes we are getting vaccine but it is slow in some areas.


----------



## ellbell

ottawamom said:


> We still can't get enough vaccine quickly enough in certain regions of the country. Ottawa as an example if you need one. People here, if they are able to get an appointment, are having to wait right now until the end of June for that shot. There are still nearly 500,000 people who would like shots who have to wait to get appointments. Yes we are getting vaccine but it is slow in some areas.


Is this because of supply in the area or the ability to accommodate people? I know that now the vaccines are being distributed by population. I'm in Hamilton and even with only on average 3000 people a day getting vaccinated up until recently we were having a problem filling appointments and this was before the hotspots were declared.  Now that the hotspots aren't being priorities I was still able to book an appointment for my 15 year old only a week out.  At a clinic.  Maybe ask your MP if they have enough people available to provide the vaccinations and if there is a volunteer program to get more people giving shots.


----------



## ottawamom

The demand is there in the city. People will happily go get shots. There just isn't enough vaccine to meet the demand. Kind of sad actually. The supply will come, eventually. Until then people wait.  

There was a doctor on tv at dinnertime saying she would happily staff and organize a 24 hours clinic to give shots if only the were made available to her.


----------



## Donald - my hero

ellbell said:


> Is this because of supply in the area or the ability to accommodate people? I know that now the vaccines are being distributed by population. I'm in Hamilton and even with only on average 3000 people a day getting vaccinated up until recently we were having a problem filling appointments and this was before the hotspots were declared.  Now that the hotspots aren't being priorities I was still able to book an appointment for my 15 year old only a week out.  At a clinic.  Maybe ask your MP if they have enough people available to provide the vaccinations and if there is a volunteer program to get more people giving shots.


*for us I know it's a supply problem, we have huge clinics and the staff to run them but since the vaccines were (rightfully so IMHO, put the fire out!) redirected to the hot spots we aren't getting enough to handle the demands.  Appointments are weeks away and our seniors are going past the time for second shots - my mom is 81, had her 1st shot on March 3rd, she got the link to book her next (our health unit went the pre-register route) last Monday and the earliest she was able to book is June 22. 

this type of problem is why we need to wait until the middle of June to move forward with the reopening, the total vaccinated percentage is skewed by the sheer number of people in the hot spots (again as it needed to be) who are getting jabbed while other areas are dealing with scarcity. We'll catch up soon!!!*


----------



## samsteele

We need more vaccines in all areas of Ontario and Canada. We need them now not a trickle over the summer and into the fall.


----------



## bcwife76

samsteele said:


> We need more vaccines in all areas of Ontario and Canada. We need them now not a trickle over the summer and into the fall.


Aren't we supposed to be getting like 2.4 million a week of Pfizer alone every week in June? I mean, it's not 10 million but it's more than a trickle.
Is Biden sending us more AZ? Because I certainly don't see him sending us any Pfizer or Moderna.


----------



## ottawamom

@bcwife76 we could certainly use those AZ for second doses for those who want them. I'm afraid they are going to run out of AZ before they are able to offer it to everyone who had a first dose. Not too sure about each of the other alternatives for the second shot otherwise.


----------



## damo

bcwife76 said:


> Aren't we supposed to be getting like 2.4 million a week of Pfizer alone every week in June? I mean, it's not 10 million but it's more than a trickle.
> Is Biden sending us more AZ? Because I certainly don't see him sending us any Pfizer or Moderna.



Yes, 2.4 million/week from Pfizer...Moderna certainly is much more unpredictable.  That's about what Canada has been averaging in actual shots in arms as well.


----------



## samsteele

bcwife76 said:


> I mean, it's not 10 million but it's more than a trickle.


We all really hope so. I know that if I hadn't found out about AZ being offered at a local Shoppers last month here in this forum, I would still be waiting for my first shot of Pfizer. I'm over 50 and the supply here has not kept up with demand. We are repeatedly told by our local health unit to remain patient and that the vaccine supply will improve in the near future. Think most of us want that future to happen sooner rather than later. I don't have any interest in politics on this thread and imagine most posters here don't either. Have always hoped that more vaccines in arms has been our one common goal. The goal posts need to stop moving and promised vaccines need to be delivered.


----------



## KNovacovschi

ottawamom said:


> @bcwife76 we could certainly use those AZ for second doses for those who want them. I'm afraid they are going to run out of AZ before they are able to offer it to everyone who had a first dose. Not too sure about each of the other alternatives for the second shot otherwise.



They stated over the weekend that you can’t mix vaccines, they have to be like for like, so for AZ if there is none then you can have J&J and if you havePfizer then you can have Moderna but not AZ and then Pfizer. They better be sending more AZ since they have over a million people vaccinated with it.


----------



## mamaofsix

KNovacovschi said:


> They stated over the weekend that you can’t mix vaccines, they have to be like for like, so for AZ if there is none then you can have J&J and if you havePfizer then you can have Moderna but not AZ and then Pfizer. They better be sending more AZ since they have over a million people vaccinated with it.


Not sure of other provinces, but Ontario already has enough set aside of AZ for 2nd doses for all those who got 1 shot already.  They will not offer and more 1st doses of AZ unless it is over and above the amount set aside as 2nd dose.


----------



## damo

KNovacovschi said:


> They stated over the weekend that you can’t mix vaccines, they have to be like for like, so for AZ if there is none then you can have J&J and if you havePfizer then you can have Moderna but not AZ and then Pfizer. They better be sending more AZ since they have over a million people vaccinated with it.



Who said?  There are lots of studies coming out that say that mixing produces a really potent immune response.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01359-3


----------



## ottawamom

mamaofsix said:


> Not sure of other provinces, but Ontario already has enough set aside of AZ for 2nd doses for all those who got 1 shot already.  They will not offer and more 1st doses of AZ unless it is over and above the amount set aside as 2nd dose.


Do you have a source for this information re the stockpile of AZ in Ontario. I was just listening to a discussion with the head of the pharmacy assoc. in Ontario and he said they have approx 50,000 doses of AZ to dish out before the end of the month. Others will be coming to the province but we will be waiting until late June through August for those.


----------



## pigletto

damo said:


> Who said?  There are lots of studies coming out that say that mixing produces a really potent immune response.
> 
> https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01359-3


So this is where I am getting confused ( and very very frustrated to be honest ). As recently as this morning I saw two news sources reporting we are very close to the results of the mixing trials and recommendations on mixing are imminent.

However NACI recommended on the weekend that we should get vaccine of the same type for both shots. 
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/toronto...-shot-vaccine-when-it-comes-to-2nd-doses/amp/
Add in supply concerns and we’re still playing the vaccine hunger games and it’s getting tiresome. I fully appreciate what a massive undertaking this is . I’m just hoping for more consistency in messages to the public .


----------



## damo

pigletto said:


> So this is where I am getting confused ( and very very frustrated to be honest ). As recently as this morning I saw two news sources reporting we are very close to the results of the mixing trials and recommendations on mixing are imminent.
> 
> However NACI recommended on the weekend that we should get vaccine of the same type for both shots.
> https://www.google.ca/amp/s/toronto...-shot-vaccine-when-it-comes-to-2nd-doses/amp/
> Add in supply concerns and we’re still playing the vaccine hunger games and it’s getting tiresome. I fully appreciate what a massive undertaking this is . I’m just hoping for more consistency in messages to the public .



It is tiresome since in that article it is stated, "An mRNA vaccine in place of a second AstraZeneca shot may be an option, but NACI is waiting on more data." and then it goes on to talk about the study from Spain and the UK ... 

"A Spanish study released initial results last week showing a second dose of Pfizer for AstraZeneca recipients produced a stronger immune response, but more information is pending.

A U.K. study earlier this month found that the same sequence produced some stronger initial side effects, but that they were temporary and mixing the vaccines was deemed safe. Further data on whether the blend yields similar or better results than two doses of the same vaccine is expected in a few weeks."


----------



## Pumpkin1172

.


----------



## samsteele

I've really appreciated all the updated information on this thread and its been a huge help to me. But think I'm going to take a step back for at least a few days as I've noticed I'm growing very cranky. I'm sure its just frustration talking. It's 100% on me and no one else. But a little break is maybe good for the soul.


----------



## KNovacovschi

damo said:


> Who said?  There are lots of studies coming out that say that mixing produces a really potent immune response.
> 
> https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01359-3



It was on the news, they showed a press conference of NACI


----------



## damo

KNovacovschi said:


> It was on the news, they showed a press conference of NACI



Just didn't know who you were referring to when you said they.


----------



## KNovacovschi

damo said:


> Just didn't know who you were referring to when you said they.



It’s all good


----------



## Iralyn

ottawamom said:


> We still can't get enough vaccine quickly enough in certain regions of the country. Ottawa as an example if you need one. People here, if they are able to get an appointment, are having to wait right now until the end of June for that shot. There are still nearly 500,000 people who would like shots who have to wait to get appointments. Yes we are getting vaccine but it is slow in some areas.


 
Definitely!  I was able to book my teen daughter for an appointment on the day when the provincial portal opened to 12+ for June 1 at a clinic within walking distance of our home.  Meanwhile I have friends north of Ottawa who have had appointments booked for weeks -- also for June 1! Doesn't seem right.


----------



## Susan2771

hummmm,  

The U.S. border to Canada could reopen on June 22: reports (msn.com)


----------



## JETSDAD

Susan2771 said:


> hummmm,
> 
> The U.S. border to Canada could reopen on June 22: reports (msn.com)


I hope it's correct....please be correct. 



Please.


----------



## Jrb1979

Susan2771 said:


> hummmm,
> 
> The U.S. border to Canada could reopen on June 22: reports (msn.com)


If you read it the US side will open but the rules won't be changing for coming back into Canada. Meaning the 14 day quarantine will still be in place.


----------



## JETSDAD

Jrb1979 said:


> If you read it the US side will open but the rules won't be changing for coming back into Canada. Meaning the 14 day quarantine will still be in place.


I'm ok with that (obviously would prefer not to).  And I have a feeling/guess that the quarantine for vaccinated people could change or go away.


----------



## Jrb1979

JETSDAD said:


> I'm ok with that (obviously would prefer not to).  And I have a feeling/guess that the quarantine for vaccinated people could change or go away.


Agreed but probably not til we reach 75% vaccinated. At best you're looking at fall for that to happen.


----------



## JETSDAD

Jrb1979 said:


> Agreed but probably not til we reach 75% vaccinated. At best you're looking at fall for that to happen.


If 14 day quarantine means I can keep my reservation for the 50th anniversary I'm happy.  If the 14 day goes away by then it will just be icing on the cake.


----------



## hdrolfe

Jrb1979 said:


> Agreed but probably not til we reach 75% vaccinated. At best you're looking at fall for that to happen.



That number is so interesting to me, we keep saying it but when you look at the US, which I don't think will ever reach 75% vaccinated, their cases have dropped dramatically. So maybe they will reassess the 75% at some point. Though I do also hope we reach that number if possible. 

Maybe we will get lucky and that 60% with one dose that Ontario is aiming for as Step 1 will be reached and we can open the border... or not. Who can say since they won't give us the benchmarks.


----------



## Jrb1979

hdrolfe said:


> That number is so interesting to me, we keep saying it but when you look at the US, which I don't think will ever reach 75% vaccinated, their cases have dropped dramatically. So maybe they will reassess the 75% at some point. Though I do also hope we reach that number if possible.
> 
> Maybe we will get lucky and that 60% with one dose that Ontario is aiming for as Step 1 will be reached and we can open the border... or not. Who can say since they won't give us the benchmarks.


Yes their cases have dropped dramatically but with them not having as many vaccinated means there will be surges in many places.  

They sort have given us benchmarks for border reopening. 75% with first dose and 20% fully vaccinated.


----------



## Susan2771

Mexico and US are in talks to relax the border restrictions on June 22 both sides, for non-essential travel.  Would that kind of move put pressure on the Canadian government and businesses on this side of the border to be left out I wonder?

Mexico eyes easing U.S. border curbs from June 22, depending on COVID | Reuters


----------



## hdrolfe

I haven't even been paying attention to Mexico, I know people were able to travel there over winter before we shut things down further, are their cases low? Are they getting vaccinated? Interesting. I think also likely to put pressure on Canada to reopen things. I hope it's closer to the 60% than 75%, since Ontario is almost there (same with BC, I didn't look at each province though). 

Quick look at Mexico shows their cases are dropping, vaccination rates are only at 14% for one dose, but I don't think they can be compared to us or the US.


----------



## Jrb1979

I personally think 60% is too low and with keeping it at 74% it keeps people motivated to get vaccinated


----------



## grantclaire

We are in Peel region in Ontario and are hitting 70% today!


----------



## Donald - my hero

grantclaire said:


> We are in Peel region in Ontario and are hitting 70% today!


*Great news, we're moving in the right direction for sure. We just need to hang on a bit longer, the light is getting brighter*


----------



## amw

grantclaire said:


> We are in Peel region in Ontario and are hitting 70% today!



York region just hit 70 percent today as well.   It’s a sign that we as Canadians - particularly in the GTA - are not vaccine hesitant when supply is provided. I’m particularly proud of the under 25s in our area who have shown up as soon as they were allowed - 54 percent already.


----------



## suse66

Susan2771 said:


> hummmm,
> 
> The U.S. border to Canada could reopen on June 22: reports (msn.com)


That would be the best news ever!


amw said:


> York region just hit 70 percent today as well.   It’s a sign that we as Canadians - particularly in the GTA - are not vaccine hesitant when supply is provided. I’m particularly proud of the under 25s in our area who have shown up as soon as they were allowed - 54 percent already.


I live in York Region as well and was thrilled to see the numbers today. The 18-19 year olds are already vaccinated at a rate of 49.7% and they have only been eligible for a week! Such good news!


----------



## ellbell

Jrb1979 said:


> I personally think 60% is too low and with keeping it at 74% it keeps people motivated to get vaccinated


To be fair the people who don't want to be vaccinated aren't motivated by the numbers. I know a number of people who refuse to get the vaccination and things opening don't matter to them because they feel it will happen eventually regardless.


----------



## pigletto

* edited to remove quoted post at posters request .


I’m not sure I agree . I don’t think every positive needs to be countered with a negative . I think it just one person sharing their joy with one great thing. I don’t think anyone was thinking that meant every region was there . Sometimes we just need something good .

ETA ) We are only at 51.5 where I am but we will get there .


----------



## Jrb1979

ellbell said:


> To be fair the people who don't want to be vaccinated aren't motivated by the numbers. I know a number of people who refuse to get the vaccination and things opening don't matter to them because they feel it will happen eventually regardless.


Agreed but with the way it's going so far here the people who don't want to be vaccinated are a small minority


----------



## von Monster

pigletto said:


> I’m not sure I agree . I don’t think every positive needs to be countered with a negative . I think it just one person sharing their joy with one great thing. I don’t think anyone was thinking that meant every region was there . Sometimes we just need something good .
> 
> ETA ) We are only at 51.5 where I am but we will get there .



So much this. Lately I've found there to be an awful lot of negativity about how things are going; and really there shouldn't be. The province dropped massive amounts of vaccines in the 'hotspots' so obviously they're at much higher levels than the rest of the province but it won't take much to catch up.

My health unit is running at just under 60% first dose right now FWIW.


----------



## Donald - my hero

pigletto said:


> I’m not sure I agree . I don’t think every positive needs to be countered with a negative . I think it just one person sharing their joy with one great thing. I don’t think anyone was thinking that meant every region was there . Sometimes we just need something good .
> 
> ETA ) We are only at 51.5 where I am but we will get there .


*I tried to convey that in my post but obviously missed the mark somehow, could you please remove my post from yours? I'm very happy to see the numbers climbing*


----------



## von Monster

Donald - my hero said:


> *I tried to convey that in my post but obviously missed the mark somehow, could you please remove my post from yours? I'm very happy to see the numbers climbing*



Why would you delete something you said?


----------



## Donald - my hero

von Monster said:


> Why would you delete something you said?



*I posted in haste and didn't give myself time to cool off first. We have a LOT going on in our lives right now that would be hard to deal with but COVID-19 is making them almost impossible to tackle and I let my frustration get the better of me*


----------



## pigletto

Donald - my hero said:


> *I tried to convey that in my post but obviously missed the mark somehow, could you please remove my post from yours? I'm very happy to see the numbers climbing*


I certainly didn’t feel you said anything that required deleting , we just had a different opinion. But I will respectfully comply with your request   .


----------



## Pumpkin1172

Donald - my hero said:


> I posted in haste and didn't give myself time to cool off first. We have a LOT going on in our lives right now that would be hard to deal with but COVID-19 is making them almost impossible to tackle and I let my frustration get the better of me



   We are all soooooooooo tired of this covid cr@p then you add our regular day to day stress and other things that happen and it just snowballs!!!  Sending you sooo many hugs.  We will all get through all of this together!!!!!


----------



## Going to WDW

Definitely think that vaccination is super important.    Until we get to the point that vaccination (rather than shutdown) is what's stopping spread we'll still have issues (and new variants.)   Hopefully the rate of vaccination hits where it needs to be.   Don't see how this goes away without vaccine though.

We've booked DS (15) for his vaccine but made sure to talk to him before to make sure that he was onboard.   He definitely was.  In early June he'll have his first and then end of Sept for his second (would love to have the final moved up though.)   Both DH and myself have had our first (Pfizer for DH, AZ for me) and will do the second doses on our booked days (or sooner if we can.)

To be honest it seems sort of weird that so many won't take the vaccine.  My mom lived through the Polio stuff in the 50's (although she did have it she survived -- a few on her street weren't so fortunate --- but had post polio syndrome for probably the last 15 years of her life), my uncle had meningitus  (and made it through relatively unharmed -- except a stutter that didn't exist before), and my aunt had scarlet fever in roughly the same time frame.  All of these are preventable now through vaccines.   I wonder what would have happened then if propoganda played such a big role in deciding to take a vaccine or not back then.   I'm guessing the world would be in a very different place now.    Having information is vital, having disinformation is dangerous.


----------



## Minniemoo15

NB just announced their reopening plan...its even better than I could have imagined. Starting July 1, we can go to Maine back and forth without quarantining if vaccinated with one dose. This is HUGE for a province that has had such strict isolation requirements. They said it was pending federal government reopening  the US border, but they must have a feeling it will be opening by then to announce this. I thought it was interesting.

ETA: Our Premier just said there is a Premiers call tonight with the PM and he expect more info to be given there on the date for Us border target reopening... so stay tuned...


----------



## Donald - my hero

Pumpkin1172 said:


> We are all soooooooooo tired of this covid cr@p then you add our regular day to day stress and other things that happen and it just snowballs!!!  Sending you sooo many hugs.  We will all get through all of this together!!!!!


*yup,  even people like my hubby who has the patience of a Saint is at the end of his tether! *


----------



## TommyJK

Minniemoo15 said:


> NB just announced their reopening plan...its even better than I could have imagined. Starting July 1, we can go to Maine back and forth without quarantining if vaccinated with one dose. This is HUGE for a province that has had such strict isolation requirements. They said it was pending federal government reopening  the US border, but they must have a feeling it will be opening by then to announce this. I thought it was interesting.
> 
> ETA: Our Premier just said there is a Premiers call tonight with the PM and he expect more info to be given there on the date for Us border target reopening... so stay tuned...



This will be very interesting to see if they can pull it off - Localized border crossing, like your example of NB with Maine.  I'm not sure how it would work in general becasue one could go from Maine to NB and vice versa but what's stopping anyone from say travelling all over America or Canada after crossing at those specific borders.

Similarly we could have examples like with Manitoba on the brink of collapse of their health care system with their surges.  You probably wouldn't want to allow crossings into and out of Manitoba while their situation is still dire, but what would stop someone from "looping around" via another province?

All very interesting and will love to see how it all shakes out.


----------



## Minniemoo15

TommyJK said:


> This will be very interesting to see if they can pull it off - Localized border crossing, like your example of NB with Maine.  I'm not sure how it would work in general becasue one could go from Maine to NB and vice versa but what's stopping anyone from say travelling all over America or Canada after crossing at those specific borders.
> 
> Similarly we could have examples like with Manitoba on the brink of collapse of their health care system with their surges.  You probably wouldn't want to allow crossings into and out of Manitoba while their situation is still dire, but what would stop someone from "looping around" via another province?
> 
> All very interesting and will love to see how it all shakes out.


I think the thinking is that once the US border opens, Mainers can come in without having to quarantine. Other states may have to.

Right now anyone coming into NB for any reason, including from any other Canadian province, has to isolate for 14 days. We have had very strict self isolation rules throughout this whole time.


----------



## NewYKRunner

Minniemoo15 said:


> Right now anyone coming into NB for any reason, including from any other Canadian province, has to isolate for 14 days. We have had very strict self isolation rules throughout this whole time.



We were the same until a few weeks ago.  Anyone fully vaccinated only has to isolate for 8 days now, with a test completed on the 8th day.  If you're a local resident returning, anyone in your household who is fully vaccinated does not have to isolate while you isolate.  I know not many Canadians are fully vaccinated compared to us but it's a decent step forward.  BC just announced they are shortening their second dose time frame so hopefully more provinces are able to follow suit.  Canada seems to have enough doses on hand now to start that.


----------



## von Monster

Looks like the decision might be made for Trudeau -

U.S. border to re-open June 22 | All Point Bulletin 
Reports that U.S. border to Canada could reopen on June 22 untrue: sources | Globalnews.ca 

Now this would only affect traffic going into the USA - traffic coming back would still be subject to Canadian rules in that the US border would be 'open' and the Canadian would not be. However if I was a gambler I would suspect this was a gambit from the US to get movement on this file.


----------



## wdwmom3

von Monster said:


> Looks like the decision might be made for Trudeau -
> 
> U.S. border to re-open June 22 | All Point Bulletin
> Reports that U.S. border to Canada could reopen on June 22 untrue: sources | Globalnews.ca
> 
> Now this would only affect traffic going into the USA - traffic coming back would still be subject to Canadian rules in that the US border would be 'open' and the Canadian would not be. However if I was a gambler I would suspect this was a gambit from the US to get movement on this file.



How is this really any different considering you could grab a flight to the US this entire time?


----------



## von Monster

wdwmom3 said:


> How is this really any different considering you could grab a flight to the US this entire time?



It isn't except it would allow people to drive across and make the border closure solely a Canadian government issue.

Right now the closure is 'mutual', but it gets harder to defend politically if it's only one way. As the flight loophole shows this is primarily a Canadian government issue the US was going along with for the sake of appearances.


----------



## Jrb1979

von Monster said:


> It isn't except it would allow people to drive across and make the border closure solely a Canadian government issue.
> 
> Right now the closure is 'mutual', but it gets harder to defend politically if it's only one way. As the flight loophole shows this is primarily a Canadian government issue the US was going along with for the sake of appearances.


I would be fine if they open it but keep the quarantine in place for those not vaccinated. If you are vaccinated you are free to cross.


----------



## bcwife76

von Monster said:


> Looks like the decision might be made for Trudeau -
> 
> U.S. border to re-open June 22 | All Point Bulletin
> Reports that U.S. border to Canada could reopen on June 22 untrue: sources | Globalnews.ca
> 
> Now this would only affect traffic going into the USA - traffic coming back would still be subject to Canadian rules in that the US border would be 'open' and the Canadian would not be. However if I was a gambler I would suspect this was a gambit from the US to get movement on this file.


According to the White House this isn't true:

https://globalnews.ca/news/7899295/...PlrxC9YUfeQi6N0gS_o2FwLbaIHXJa7nphsoTt7RJQSho
So did someone spill the beans too early or.....???


----------



## von Monster

bcwife76 said:


> According to the White House this isn't true:
> 
> https://globalnews.ca/news/7899295/...PlrxC9YUfeQi6N0gS_o2FwLbaIHXJa7nphsoTt7RJQSho
> So did someone spill the beans too early or.....???



I included the response of it not being true Global news link, but combined with the US pushing for a reopening by Independence Day, the leak, and the federal advisory panel recommending that fully vaccinated people exempt from quarantine news today it seems to me someone spilled information they weren't supposed to.

I could be wrong, but this really feels like it's a thing now.


----------



## bcwife76

von Monster said:


> I included the response of it not being true Global news link, but combined with the US pushing for a reopening by Independence Day, the leak, and the federal advisory panel recommending that fully vaccinated people exempt from quarantine news today it seems to me someone spilled information they weren't supposed to.
> 
> I could be wrong, but this really feels like it's a thing now.


There's definitely a lot of information floating around so I mean...yeah. Where there's smoke, there's fire


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

I just read this article, which is very promising:

*Ottawa finally has a framework for restarting travel, easing rules for vaxxed travellers. It needs to act now.*

https://news.paxeditions.com/news/o...sing-rules-vaxxed-travellers-it-needs-act-now
I know this is the land border thread, but it will be the same in the end.


----------



## TommyJK

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> I just read this article, which is very promising:
> 
> *Ottawa finally has a framework for restarting travel, easing rules for vaxxed travellers. It needs to act now.*
> 
> https://news.paxeditions.com/news/o...sing-rules-vaxxed-travellers-it-needs-act-now
> I know this is the land border thread, but it will be the same in the end.



From the recommendations:

"But here’s a key nugget in the report:* travellers that can show proof of vaccination* should be allowed to skip the pre-departure test, quarantine requirement or day seven test, the panel says. "

Let's hope this becomes a reality!


----------



## wdwmom3

TommyJK said:


> From the recommendations:
> 
> "But here’s a key nugget in the report:* travellers that can show proof of vaccination* should be allowed to skip the pre-departure test, quarantine requirement or day seven test, the panel says. "
> 
> Let's hope this becomes a reality!



I wonder if they do this, will they make an exemption for kids under 12? Or will we have to wait to travel with kids?


----------



## Gigi22

To me the rumours look a lot like a “trial balloon” — information  leaked deliberately to assess the degree of public support, if any.  That would make it a possibility, nothing more.


----------



## Jrb1979

wdwmom3 said:


> I wonder if they do this, will they make an exemption for kids under 12? Or will we have to wait to travel with kids?


I'm guessing kids will have to show a negative test to cross


----------



## damo

Jrb1979 said:


> I'm guessing kids will have to show a negative test to cross



My guess is that kids will be exempt.


----------



## Jrb1979

damo said:


> My guess is that kids will be exempt.


I hope not.


----------



## azrivest

They can't _not _exempt kids under 12. Until there's a vaccine available for them, it would render all this easing of restrictions practically useless.


----------



## wdwmom3

Gigi22 said:


> To me the rumours look a lot like a “trial balloon” — information  leaked deliberately to assess the degree of public support, if any.  That would make it a possibility, nothing more.



I agree with this.


----------



## bcwife76

Jrb1979 said:


> I'm guessing kids will have to show a negative test to cross


I'm good with this. I'm not, however, agreeable to a quarantine just for my 10 year old (unless, of course, she were to test positive).


----------



## Pumpkin1172

It will definitely interesting to see the pressure that will be put on the government now from all different sides about reopening the boarder - especially from the US.

I think many fellow Canadians like me, are waiting to see what they do with the travel restrictions.  There are  many of us who are patiently (well maybe not patiently lol) not spending our travel money on other big ticket items because we actually want to travel once all this craziness goes away.  We want to book escapes from the cold knowing that we don't have to do some stupid quarantine upon coming back home - especially for those of us who are getting both doses of our immunizations.  There has been a very clear message that this is the way to get our life back to pre-covid.


----------



## Jrb1979

Pumpkin1172 said:


> It will definitely interesting to see the pressure that will be put on the government now from all different sides about reopening the boarder - especially from the US.
> 
> I think many fellow Canadians like me, are waiting to see what they do with the travel restrictions.  There are  many of us who are patiently (well maybe not patiently lol) not spending our travel money on other big ticket items because we actually want to travel once all this craziness goes away.  We want to book escapes from the cold knowing that we don't have to do some stupid quarantine upon coming back home - especially for those of us who are getting both doses of our immunizations.  There has been a very clear message that this is the way to get our life back to pre-covid.


I agree with most of what you said. Where I disagree is life coming back to pre-covid as I doubt that ever happens. I see proof of vaccination being a requirement for awhile when they do open the border. It's mainly due to how behind a lot of the world is in vaccinations.


----------



## Pumpkin1172

This was an interesting update from a cabinet member about reopening of the boarder and boarder restrictions.  
https://fb.watch/5MQDFciMLe/

Here is the link to the information she was talking about as well.

https://www.canada.ca/en/health-can...devices/testing-screening-advisory-panel.html

It will definitely be interesting to see what happens now - especially since cabinet members are calling them out.


----------



## Pumpkin1172

Jrb1979 said:


> I agree with most of what you said. Where I disagree is life coming back to pre-covid as I doubt that ever happens. I see proof of vaccination being a requirement for awhile when they do open the border. It's mainly due to how behind a lot of the world is in vaccinations.



I agree with you as well.  I think we will need a vaccine passport of some sort as well.  

You require different vaccines to get into other countries while travelling - ex -  South Africa you need a few different vaccines before entering there.


----------



## Jrb1979

Pumpkin1172 said:


> I agree with you as well.  I think we will need a vaccine passport of some sort as well.
> 
> You require different vaccines to get into other countries while travelling - ex -  South Africa you need a few different vaccines before entering there.


I'm fine with that. My family will be fully vaccinated by August. By fall we may take a trip south and hopefully Feb have our Tampa trip.


----------



## wdwmom3

Jrb1979 said:


> I'm fine with that. My family will be fully vaccinated by August. By fall we may take a trip south and hopefully Feb have our Tampa trip.



We want to go in October.  We will all be fully vaccinated except my youngest.   So I’m really interested to see what they do about kids.


----------



## Susan2771

Pumpkin1172 said:


> This was an interesting update from a cabinet member about reopening of the boarder and boarder restrictions.
> https://fb.watch/5MQDFciMLe/
> 
> Here is the link to the information she was talking about as well.
> 
> https://www.canada.ca/en/health-can...devices/testing-screening-advisory-panel.html
> 
> It will definitely be interesting to see what happens now - especially since cabinet members are calling them out.




Thank-you for sharing. Was interesting to listen to


----------



## KNovacovschi

What makes me happy with this news is that there is more hope that I won’t be going solo in September. As much as I love my solo trips, and I do love them, I would like my DH to come with for our first trip after all this craziness, he wants to come as well. We will both be fully vaccinated long before our Sept 18th trip and are more then happy to show proof. The proof thing is no different then having to show proof of certain vaccines to go to other countries.


----------



## bcwife76

Well today the Transport Minister is saying that we CAN expect some changes 'in the coming weeks.'

https://news.paxeditions.com/news/b...trictions-coming-weeks-says-minister-alghabra


----------



## Minniemoo15

After the premiers call with the PM, Premier Higgs is now saying his anticipated date of allowing a travel bubble with Maine for July  1 likely won’t be possible. He believes the Federal Government may extend the border closure June 21 and that Canada is waiting for our vaccination levels to get closer to the US’ current level. But he believes mid-July is very much on the table.

We’re getting closer ....


----------



## TammyLynn33

Minniemoo15 said:


> After the premiers call with the PM, Premier Higgs is now saying his anticipated date of allowing a travel bubble with Maine for July  1 likely won’t be possible. He believes the Federal Government may extend the border closure June 21 and that Canada is waiting for our vaccination levels to get closer to the US’ current level. But he believes mid-July is very much on the table.
> 
> We’re getting closer ....



i think they will have to wait until more/all provinces are actually open. If they open the border say June 22nd, Ontario is still pretty much closed .It just doesn’t seem feasible. ( not saying it’s wrong or right .. just the logistics )
I am more and more optimistic for Xmas


----------



## von Monster

TammyLynn33 said:


> i think they will have to wait until more/all provinces are actually open. If they open the border say June 22nd, Ontario is still pretty much closed .It just doesn’t seem feasible. ( not saying it’s wrong or right .. just the logistics )
> I am more and more optimistic for Xmas



The issue would be that Ontario is for some odd reason at least a month behind every other province for pretty much every activity you can think of. I fully expect over the next week or two for the provincial government to 'pivot' same as it did on outdoor activities last week.

Your guide to COVID-19 reopenings: what you can do — and when — in each province | CBC News



Minniemoo15 said:


> After the premiers call with the PM, Premier Higgs is now saying his anticipated date of allowing a travel bubble with Maine for July  1 likely won’t be possible. He believes the Federal Government may extend the border closure June 21 and that Canada is waiting for our vaccination levels to get closer to the US’ current level. But he believes mid-July is very much on the table.
> 
> We’re getting closer ....



I just looked this up - how exactly does NB expect to be able to 'bubble' with an American State? How does that work? Show up at the border and if you can't produce documentation you live in Maine you're sent away?  How does NB know if you've left the bubble/Maine - the US gov isn't going to track where you travel to for the NB provincial government to ensure you stay 'in the bubble' and don't travel to another state. Maine isn't going to restrict travel/tourism into the state so it would be no different than any other US state in terms of COVID.

Just the logistics of the whole thing would be crazy if you think about it. I really can't see either and Canadian or American Federal governments allowing it, but who knows.


----------



## DisDee1982

wdwmom3 said:


> We want to go in October.  We will all be fully vaccinated except my youngest.   So I’m really interested to see what they do about kids.


We’re in the same boat. Planning a trip in October... I am fully expecting that my youngest will have to quarantine when we return. I’m fine with this. My husband can return to work and I’ll work from home while my youngest home schools for a couple weeks.
 I’m pretty sure that I saw they were doing it this way in other countries  (fully vaccinated travellers don’t have to quarantine, anyone not vaccinated isolates). 
I’m just as interested as you but just can’t see it being simply allowed to send your kids back to school after travel this fall


----------



## Minniemoo15

von Monster said:


> The issue would be that Ontario is for some odd reason at least a month behind every other province for pretty much every activity you can think of. I fully expect over the next week or two for the provincial government to 'pivot' same as it did on outdoor activities last week.
> 
> Your guide to COVID-19 reopenings: what you can do — and when — in each province | CBC News
> 
> 
> 
> I just looked this up - how exactly does NB expect to be able to 'bubble' with an American State? How does that work? Show up at the border and if you can't produce documentation you live in Maine you're sent away?  How does NB know if you've left the bubble/Maine - the US gov isn't going to track where you travel to for the NB provincial government to ensure you stay 'in the bubble' and don't travel to another state. Maine isn't going to restrict travel/tourism into the state so it would be no different than any other US state in terms of COVID.
> 
> Just the logistics of the whole thing would be crazy if you think about it. I really can't see either and Canadian or American Federal governments allowing it, but who knows.


I imagine it would be similar to the Atlantic Bubble we had last summer.   If you were from one of tha Atlantic provinces you could travel in without self isolating. If you were from another province you were still allowed in but had to quarantine for 14 days. There are peace officers at all provincial border entry points. You pre register with the province to confirm eligibility, stop at the border to prove residency and answer questions (have you left the Atlantic bubble in the last 14 days?). You are allowed in without self isolating if all conditions were met. I suppose you could lie but you are running the risk of getting caught lying to a peace officer.

So if this goes ahead, I imagine Mainers would be allowed in without isolating while someone from say Florida, would be allowed in but with self isolation. Obviously it can’t happen until the government opens the border. Provinces are able to set their own isolation guidelines already so it’s really no different.  Dh traveled internationally in Dec for work and upon return, federal isolation requirements were different than our provincial ones. When he asked about it, the Fed government told him to defer to provincial as they were more stringent.

It won’t be an issue for long anyway as by Aug 2 all restrictions in NB will (hopefully) be lifted and will default to federal guidelines.


----------



## ellbell

Minniemoo15 said:


> I imagine it would be similar to the Atlantic Bubble we had last summer.   If you were from one of tha Atlantic provinces you could travel in without self isolating. If you were from another province you were still allowed in but had to quarantine for 14 days. There are peace officers at all provincial border entry points. You pre register with the province to confirm eligibility, stop at the border to prove residency and answer questions (have you left the Atlantic bubble in the last 14 days?). You are allowed in without self isolating if all conditions were met. I suppose you could lie but you are running the risk of getting caught lying to a peace officer.
> 
> So if this goes ahead, I imagine Mainers would be allowed in without isolating while someone from say Florida, would be allowed in but with self isolation. Obviously it can’t happen until the government opens the border. Provinces are able to set their own isolation guidelines already so it’s really no different.  Dh traveled internationally in Dec for work and upon return, federal isolation requirements were different than our provincial ones. When he asked about it, the Fed government told him to defer to provincial as they were more stringent.
> 
> It won’t be an issue for long anyway as by Aug 2 all restrictions in NB will (hopefully) be lifted and will default to federal guidelines.


In your example though someone from Florida could come in but have to self isolate.  Right now that isn't allowed anywhere else so then people would cross in Maine and go whereever they pleased.


----------



## Minniemoo15

ellbell said:


> In your example though someone from Florida could come in but have to self isolate.  Right now that isn't allowed anywhere else so then people would cross in Maine and go whereever they pleased.


That’s why I said it is dependent on the federal border opening. Premier Higgs has said it won’t happen until the federal government opens the border. At that point Americans will be allowed in as per federal guidelines but Mainers may be exempt from self-isolating. Right now nobody can come into NB (self-isolating or not) - even my sister who lives in Alberta, owns property here and is totally willing to do a 14 day quarantine upon arrival.


----------



## ronandannette

Susan2771 said:


> Thank-you for sharing. Was interesting to listen to


Now that the findings of the government appointed Expert Panel (our tax dollars at work, folks) have made it clear they see no benefit in the Covid hotel scheme, I wonder why it hasn’t been summarily scrapped already? Of all the follies occurring since last March, I’d grudgingly just give the feds a pass and never speak of it again if they’d just can the freakin’ thing immediately.


----------



## Duck1

ronandannette said:


> Now that the findings of the government appointed Expert Panel (our tax dollars at work, folks) have made it clear they see no benefit in the Covid hotel scheme, I wonder why it hasn’t been summarily scrapped already? Of all the follies occurring since last March, I’d grudgingly just give the feds a pass and never speak of it again if they’d just can the freakin’ thing immediately.


Couldn’t agree more. Another thing to consider is that the case challenging the constitutionality of these hotels is scheduled to be heard in another week. It would be a convenient time for the feds to scrap it before an unfavourable decision.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Health Minister said the quarantine hotel isn't going away anytime soon...(scroll down to see)

https://news.paxeditions.com/news/o...sing-rules-vaxxed-travellers-it-needs-act-now


----------



## ronandannette

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> Health Minister said the *quarantine hotel isn't going away anytime soon*...(scroll down to see)
> 
> https://news.paxeditions.com/news/o...sing-rules-vaxxed-travellers-it-needs-act-now


Oh for Pete's sake...that's almost laughable after reading the report.


----------



## von Monster

ronandannette said:


> Oh for Pete's sake...that's almost laughable after reading the report.



It's an easy sell to those who are still afraid of travel (even amongst the vaccinated) and to those who don't travel.

Like everything now it's just a calculation of votes won vs. lost by keeping it. As the report shows it has no other purpose, as it does nothing to stop the spread.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

The Gov't thinks their idea is the best thing ever...they would never admit that it's pointless.  This will be around until the fall for sure.


----------



## ronandannette

von Monster said:


> It's an easy sell to those who are still afraid of travel (even amongst the vaccinated) and to those who don't travel.
> 
> Like everything now it's just a calculation of votes won vs. lost by keeping it. As the report shows it has no other purpose, as it does nothing to stop the spread.


 As I recall it, the only purpose it ever had was to punish and deter Canadians that were daring to think about vacationing during spring break. Honestly, I've never had one single conversation with anyone, traveller or not, that didn't think the entire thing was ridiculous - and that was even before we found out how ridiculously it's actually played out.


----------



## Mikey15

Monday morning update! ON had a great vaccination weekend and I got my own 1st dose!
We're at 64.8%/5.5% 1st/2nd and that much closer to 75/20!





Western provinces report later so that Canadian totals won't be until later, but Canada average is very close to ON actual due to how much of Canada lives here.


----------



## KNovacovschi

Mikey15 said:


> Monday morning update! ON had a great vaccination weekend and I got my own 1st dose!
> We're at 64.8%/5.5% 1st/2nd and that much closer to 75/20!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Western provinces report later so that Canadian totals won't be until later, but Canada average is very close to ON actual due to how much of Canada lives here.



I don’t think it will take much longer to hit 75%, now if Ford would stick to once we hit 60% we can start reopening yet here we are.


----------



## Donald - my hero

KNovacovschi said:


> I don’t think it will take much longer to hit 75%, now if Ford would stick to once we hit 60% we can start reopening yet here we are.


*we need to remember that there's more than just the vaccination rate to the metrics being used - the ones that are more nebulous like hospital and ICU numbers,  the R value and the 2 weeks post vaccine. We will get to the next step soon,  but it's really hard to wait!!*


----------



## von Monster

Mikey15 said:


> Monday morning update! ON had a great vaccination weekend and I got my own 1st dose!
> We're at 64.8%/5.5% 1st/2nd and that much closer to 75/20!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Western provinces report later so that Canadian totals won't be until later, but Canada average is very close to ON actual due to how much of Canada lives here.



Ontario just posted it's lowest daily case count since February.

https://www.cp24.com/mobile/news/on...-covid-19-case-count-since-february-1.5449575


----------



## Pumpkin1172

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> Health Minister said the quarantine hotel isn't going away anytime soon...(scroll down to see)





ronandannette said:


> Oh for Pete's sake...that's almost laughable after reading the report.





ilovetotravel1977 said:


> The Gov't thinks their idea is the best thing ever...they would never admit that it's pointless. This will be around until the fall for sure.





ronandannette said:


> As I recall it, the only purpose it ever had was to punish and deter Canadians that were daring to think about vacationing during spring break. Honestly, I've never had one single conversation with anyone, traveller or not, that didn't think the entire thing was ridiculous - and that was even before we found out how ridiculously it's actually played out.


I can't agree more.  This was just a tactic to keep the restless people in line.  If they had really been serious about keeping the virus out of Canada or heck...even the variants...they would have done the same thing as other countries such as Australia & New Zealand.  Their performance through the last 15 + months is laughable at this point


----------



## TommyJK

von Monster said:


> Ontario just posted it's lowest daily case count since February.
> 
> https://www.cp24.com/mobile/news/on...-covid-19-case-count-since-february-1.5449575



Daily case count isn't really the best metric to use and I really wish the media would stop treating it as the primary number to guage things by.  While the number is the lowest since February, the number of tests it's based on is also one of the lowest this year.

Positivity rate is the most important metric because it's telling us what percent of tests are positive so it takes into account the number of tests done as well.  And today's positivy is higher than the last few days.  Ontario has a strange trend in terms of numbers of tests it does daily (it goes up during the week and then plumets down, then goes back up follwed by a plumet.....etc).  But the good news is that the overall trend continues to go down overall.


----------



## Pumpkin1172

It is the same here in Alberta, BUT when it goes back up again, it is never as high as it was before - that was what Hinshaw has stressed.  The numbers may go up slightly, but it is slowly lowering the peak each time.  And I know here...she talks about the R Value.  Ours has come down by over 50% since our peak at the end of April/beginning of May.  

It is encouraging.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

deleted


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

.


----------



## TommyJK

Pumpkin1172 said:


> It is the same here in Alberta, BUT when it goes back up again, it is never as high as it was before - that was what Hinshaw has stressed.  The numbers may go up slightly, but it is slowly lowering the peak each time.  And I know here...she talks about the R Value.  Ours has come down by over 50% since our peak at the end of April/beginning of May.
> 
> It is encouraging.



Yes indeed.  Reproductive number is also highly imporant.  You need to be below 1 for spread to reduce.  In Ontario we're at .82 and continue to trend down on this numbe as well


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

damo said:


> My guess is that kids will be exempt.


That’s just it - whatever they plan to do about kids of all ages should be announced soon. Along with the plan period. Will kids need a test but if negative no quarantine? Exempt under 12, or not at all?


----------



## kuhltiffany

Re: the 60%, 75% requirements for vaccination tied to reopening stages.  I've heard that that number may not be an overall number for the province, but instead a requirement for ALL public health units before we move to the next stage, has anyone else seen if that was clarified?


----------



## Sue M

I have to say when BC restricted travel to staying in your own health authority within the province after reaching all time high of over 1,000 cases a day it worked and now we are at 300 cases or less daily. Added that we also have a high vaccination rate things are looking up here.  We are now into our reopening phase.  We are starting on 2nd vaccines finally. The interval has decreased to 2 months between doses from original 4month.  Husband has appt for 2nd jab on Sunday yay!.

Once we all have 2nd jab we should be able to travel with proof of vaccine!  But even to get into the US by air we need a negative Covid test regardless of vaccine status .  I’m hoping rules change soon. No more tests or quarantine if fully vaccinated!


----------



## kuhltiffany

The rates will likely be climbing this week due to the outcome of Long Weekend activities...



TommyJK said:


> Daily case count isn't really the best metric to use and I really wish the media would stop treating it as the primary number to guage things by.  While the number is the lowest since February, the number of tests it's based on is also one of the lowest this year.
> 
> Positivity rate is the most important metric because it's telling us what percent of tests are positive so it takes into account the number of tests done as well.  And today's positivy is higher than the last few days.  Ontario has a strange trend in terms of numbers of tests it does daily (it goes up during the week and then plumets down, then goes back up follwed by a plumet.....etc).  But the good news is that the overall trend continues to go down overall.
> 
> View attachment 578786


----------



## ronandannette

kuhltiffany said:


> The rates will likely be climbing this week due to the outcome of Long Weekend activities...


Or not. Either vaccines will begin to show their effect regardless of our activities or we're permanently screwed.


----------



## TommyJK

ronandannette said:


> Or not. Either vaccines will begin to show their effect regardless of our activities or we're permanently screwed.



I tend to be on the side of continued "wavy" decrease too.  We know that the vaccines work and we continue to tick up in the jab department.  And the fact that increase in activity looks to be primarily outdoors, along with Peel and Toronto regions continuing to shut workplaces that have 5 or more cases come up I'd wager we keep seeing the decrease in positivity and R number.


----------



## 2Lunds

Following


----------



## Mikey15

Another Ontario day of more resolved cases (1,733) than new (733), meaning active cases dropping (by 1,000!). Thankfully vaccines & great outdoors are mitigating any impact of people getting together over long weekend.

I know not everyone agrees with the decision to keep in-person schools closed for what little is left of the school year, but I think this cements our trajectory. I'd still put money on a land border reopening by Jul 1-4 (question to me is whether it's before or after the dual holidays).


----------



## NewYKRunner

Yes, numbers are doing great right now.  We likely will have surpassed the UK for partially vaccinated people by the end of today.  Might have happened yesterday but I don't see the numbers for UK yet.  A lot of our daily vaccinations are starting to be second doses now so we're on a great roll right now.


----------



## quandrea

Mikey15 said:


> Another Ontario day of more resolved cases (1,733) than new (733), meaning active cases dropping (by 1,000!). Thankfully vaccines & great outdoors are mitigating any impact of people getting together over long weekend.
> 
> I know not everyone agrees with the decision to keep in-person schools closed for what little is left of the school year, but I think this cements our trajectory. I'd still put money on a land border reopening by Jul 1-4 (question to me is whether it's before or after the dual holidays).


I agree with the decision. As a teacher those last three weeks would mostly be spent re-establishing group norms, rules and routines—especially at the elementary level. Academically, it’s probably better to remain online and continue in that groove. I realise though that that is probably little comfort to working parents trying to juggle so much.


----------



## pigletto

Mikey15 said:


> Another Ontario day of more resolved cases (1,733) than new (733), meaning active cases dropping (by 1,000!). Thankfully vaccines & great outdoors are mitigating any impact of people getting together over long weekend.
> 
> I know not everyone agrees with the decision to keep in-person schools closed for what little is left of the school year, but I think this cements our trajectory. I'd still put money on a land border reopening by Jul 1-4 (question to me is whether it's before or after the dual holidays).


Also agree. I believe we’ve come too far to risk it now. We know children don’t have the serious illness and outcomes from Covid that adults do,  but it’s still thought they are spreading it, even when asymptomatic . To me , it makes sense to get as many people vaccinated as possible before sending them back. I may feel different if it were back in January with months of school left but it’s almost done now .


----------



## suse66

Mikey15 said:


> Another Ontario day of more resolved cases (1,733) than new (733), meaning active cases dropping (by 1,000!). Thankfully vaccines & great outdoors are mitigating any impact of people getting together over long weekend.
> 
> I know not everyone agrees with the decision to keep in-person schools closed for what little is left of the school year, but I think this cements our trajectory. I'd still put money on a land border reopening by Jul 1-4 (question to me is whether it's before or after the dual holidays).


I am a kindergarten educator and while I would have loved to see my class in person again, three weeks in the classroom is just not the best idea. It would be September 3.0 with getting them all settled back in to the class routines. Throw in the increasing temperatures, elementary schools with no air conditioning and the fact that we are not allowed to use fans due to Covid, it would be really hard. They also released info today that schools were the primary driver of cases in April. Add the news of the Indian variant into that mix and I think we would really see a rise in cases if we were back in class.

I hope we stay on the positive trajectory we are on......we are so close to the end. The more people that get vaccinated, the better our chances of a return to travel. How great would that be.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

https://news.paxeditions.com/news/buzz/ottawa-raises-fine-5000-refusing-hotel-quarantine
The Govt just raised the fine from $3,000 to $5,000 for skipping the hotel quarantine!  These guys are insane and won't take the advice of their own expert panel LOL


----------



## wdwmom3

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> https://news.paxeditions.com/news/buzz/ottawa-raises-fine-5000-refusing-hotel-quarantine
> The Govt just raised the fine from $3,000 to $5,000 for skipping the hotel quarantine!  These guys are insane and won't take the advice of their own expert panel LOL



And we have someone else here in Ontario who is using the border to deflect from his screw ups.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

NS just announced yesterday they are working on something for fully vaccinated travelers to enter the province without quarantine.  Likely the same as a digital certificate or something.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Make sure your return flights to Canada stop in Montreal or Calgary because they are not enforcing the fines at those airports according to reports.


----------



## Juventus

As a Windsorite(ish) I stumbled upon this somewhat shocking quote from the mayor:

Dilkens said the need for second doses is also important because it’s becoming increasingly clear the U.S./Canada border will reopen in some form around June 22, and getting across will be much easier for people with two doses. 

https://windsorstar.com/news/local-news/tunnel-board-approves-shutdown-for-mid-tunnel-vaccine-clinic


----------



## Sue M

Things here in BC are looking up. The people who planned on getting vaccine most likely have had it. I think we have 70% vaccine rate.  We’re working on roll out for 2nd vaccine.  All except my youngest dd (31) have an appt for second jab in my family.  Yippee!  And for the first time in awhile our BC Covid numbers have dropped below 200 daily count. 
Time for our govt to start working on a border reopening for fully vaccinated people. Without having to quarantine. Tired of hearing it’s not time yet.


----------



## suse66

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> https://news.paxeditions.com/news/buzz/ottawa-raises-fine-5000-refusing-hotel-quarantine
> The Govt just raised the fine from $3,000 to $5,000 for skipping the hotel quarantine!  These guys are insane and won't take the advice of their own expert panel LOL


I am so upset and frustrated by this decision. Those quarantine hotels are a terrible idea and really do nothing to keep Covid cases down. You could test negative by day three because your levels aren't high enough but you could still be positive.


----------



## Donald - my hero

Juventus said:


> As a Windsorite(ish) I stumbled upon this somewhat shocking quote from the mayor:
> 
> Dilkens said the need for second doses is also important because it’s becoming increasingly clear the U.S./Canada border will reopen in some form around June 22, and getting across will be much easier for people with two doses.
> 
> https://windsorstar.com/news/local-news/tunnel-board-approves-shutdown-for-mid-tunnel-vaccine-clinic


*woah so many questions about this rather bizarre suggestion IMHO... who will be doing the injections?  Will the chair be on our side of the border line and only the arm stuck over into the states? Who will be responsible for the post shot care? Will these shot get included in the ontario numbers as we work towards the percentage immunized? 

hope everyone realizes my post is in jest, I'm giggling here with the image of someone sitting in a golf cart leaning over a painted line in the middle of a tunnel under the Detroit River *


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

And don't forget it takes 2-3 weeks after your shot for protection. They should have started this days ago LOL

Also, doesn't the border thingy renew on the 21st of each month?


----------



## pigletto

suse66 said:


> I am so upset and frustrated by this decision. Those quarantine hotels are a terrible idea and really do nothing to keep Covid cases down. You could test negative by day three because your levels aren't high enough but you could still be positive.


Could they be leaving it in place for those that want to travel unvaccinated and upping the fines for those who refuse to comply as even more of a deterrent? 
I don’t love the quarantine hotels but it’s easy to forget the someone in our province was basically blaming flights coming in and out of Pearson for all of our Covid trouble and really pushed that in the media. This was the direct answer to that in Ontario .
What’s the alternative ?


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

I think as soon as the Govt comes up with a digital passport, the hotel will be for those not vaccinated (as @pigletto just said lol).  Our province is looking at doing something similar so we won't have to quarantine when coming home to NS. 

They have 176 days to figure it out before I leave for Florida LOL


----------



## 22Tink

Sue M said:


> Things here in BC are looking up. The people who planned on getting vaccine most likely have had it. I think we have 70% vaccine rate.  We’re working on roll out for 2nd vaccine.  All except my youngest dd (31) have an appt for second jab in my family.  Yippee!  And for the first time in awhile our BC Covid numbers have dropped below 200 daily count.
> Time for our govt to start working on a border reopening for fully vaccinated people. Without having to quarantine. Tired of hearing it’s not time yet.


Us too!  All of us adults will be fully vaccinated by the end of June and DD12 is booked for her first dose in a couple of weeks so 'should be' fully vaccinated by the end of August.  Such a relief!  I agree on opening the border for fully vaccinated people.  I have hotel in California booked for end of August and mid October so fingers crossed the one of them will work out.


----------



## petunia

Hoping they take the 14 day quarantine away, even making it something like 3 day until negative test or whatever for those with 1 dose, but Im wondering what the case will be for kiddos not able to be vaccinated..if we are vaccinated butt he kids arent would the kids just need to quarantine at home for 14 days, or would the parents also have to abide by the same rule as their child regardless of vaccination status?  Regardless I hope we get some sort of plan soon!


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Our Minister of Transportation said we know more in the coming weeks (not months). Now, that could be 25 weeks, but let's hope they mean something more like 6 weeks.


----------



## Jo-Anne

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> NS just announced yesterday they are working on something for fully vaccinated travelers to enter the province without quarantine.  Likely the same as a digital certificate or something.


That would be awesome.  My husband would really like to go back and see his Dad in Cape Breton who turned 100 this year!


----------



## NewYKRunner

petunia said:


> Hoping they take the 14 day quarantine away, even making it something like 3 day until negative test or whatever for those with 1 dose, but Im wondering what the case will be for kiddos not able to be vaccinated..if we are vaccinated butt he kids arent would the kids just need to quarantine at home for 14 days, or would the parents also have to abide by the same rule as their child regardless of vaccination status?  Regardless I hope we get some sort of plan soon!



We've been discussing that a lot as well recently wondering what might happen.  I'm _hoping_ there will be changes to isolating children for 14 days.  Let them still go out and about (masked and self-monitor, etc.) but not to schools/camps for example?  We are supposed to see the updated version of our Emerging Wisely plan today.  Hopefully they don't aim for some ridiculous requirements.  Dr. Tam said 75% partially and 20% fully vaccinated to open up the country and we're at 74% partially and 66% fully (Yellowknife region of Northwest Territories).  Time for some changes...


----------



## suse66

NewYKRunner said:


> We've been discussing that a lot as well recently wondering what might happen.  I'm _hoping_ there will be changes to isolating children for 14 days.  Let them still go out and about (masked and self-monitor, etc.) but not to schools/camps for example?  We are supposed to see the updated version of our Emerging Wisely plan today.  Hopefully they don't aim for some ridiculous requirements.  Dr. Tam said 75% partially and 20% fully vaccinated to open up the country and we're at 74% partially and 66% fully (Yellowknife region of Northwest Territories).  Time for some changes...


Those are amazing rates!!


----------



## NewYKRunner

suse66 said:


> Those are amazing rates!!



Small population and a priority due to our remoteness and reliance on Alberta if things hit the fan.  The concern especially being if Alberta was overwhelmed and we couldn't send people anywhere.


----------



## Sue M

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> Our Minister of Transportation said we know more in the coming weeks (not months). Now, that could be 25 weeks, but let's hope they mean something more like 6 weeks.


I am hoping we hear something by end of this month so I can book flights for Aug 1


----------



## Susan2771

Sue M said:


> I am hoping we hear something by end of this month so I can book flights for Aug 1



You and me both!!!  The time is really ticking on getting my girls signed up for Dance the Magic for December


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

I was looking at new entry requirements to st.Maarten for example where they will accept vaccinated tourists without quarantine and they say kids under 18 are exempt too regardless if they are vaccinated as long as parents are and they are travelling together. I know it’s St Maarten and not Canada but something like that will probably happen in different countries as not all kids can be vaccinated at least not yet.
Canada I’m not sure anymore, last week the federal government got the recommendation from the federal advisory to scrap the hotel quarantine, and so far they only increased the fine if you want to skip it? It seems like Canada makes up own rules that are not necessarily backed by expert advice.
Either way I hope, like everyone else here that we get some clear plan soon. We should have it by now.


----------



## suse66

Sue M said:


> I am hoping we hear something by end of this month so I can book flights for Aug 1


I am hoping for the same thing! Looking to book flights for August 7th. Pixie dust for both of us!


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

This article is interesting.

*Aviation groups want a "clear plan" for reopening air borders before June 21*

https://news.paxeditions.com/news/a...a-deliver-clear-roadmap-reopening-air-borders
I think both countries will be on pins and needles with the lead up to June 21 to see IF Canada has a plan to move forward with travel. We have to get rid of these govt hotels. That is the kicker.  

Provinces will do away with the quarantine once fully vaxxed. NS just announced fully vaxxed rotational workers do not need to isolate now when they arrive home.

It's coming.


----------



## bcwife76

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> This article is interesting.
> 
> *Aviation groups want a "clear plan" for reopening air borders before June 21*
> 
> https://news.paxeditions.com/news/a...a-deliver-clear-roadmap-reopening-air-borders
> I think both countries will be on pins and needles with the lead up to June 21 to see IF Canada has a plan to move forward with travel. We have to get rid of these govt hotels. That is the kicker.
> 
> Provinces will do away with the quarantine once fully vaxxed. NS just announced fully vaxxed rotational workers do not need to isolate now when they arrive home.
> 
> It's coming.


And most provinces don't have quarantine restrictions of their own anyway.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> This article is interesting.
> 
> *Aviation groups want a "clear plan" for reopening air borders before June 21*
> 
> https://news.paxeditions.com/news/a...a-deliver-clear-roadmap-reopening-air-borders
> I think both countries will be on pins and needles with the lead up to June 21 to see IF Canada has a plan to move forward with travel. We have to get rid of these govt hotels. That is the kicker.
> 
> Provinces will do away with the quarantine once fully vaxxed. NS just announced fully vaxxed rotational workers do not need to isolate now when they arrive home.
> 
> It's coming.


We all want and deserve to have a clear plan of reopening. By now with the vaccine rollout as it is, this should be clearly outlined. Absolutely. Different governments could have done better job communicating throughout this pandemic, in Canada we try to be patient even though our patience is truly being tested at this point. A clear plan, a glimpse of hope rather than the constant “now is not the time to travel” would be nice when it comes  to border reopening. This is where other countries have done better offering hope and some end date for different restrictions.
Airlines and the tourism sector needs advance notice to re-start. The general population needs to know when they might be able to visit family across the border and even (gasp!) take that vacation. What can we plan for? When? Even if the date is 2 months from now, tell us.
I’m afraid as a country we are waiting for covid to be gone and cases near zero and that likely won’t happen for a long time.
Fingers crossed that our PM actually listens to the science he has been saying he would follow.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

It would be great to know if the Montreal airport is still not ticketing people who are not doing the quaratine. Now that the fine was upped, I wonder if they will crackdown.


----------



## damo

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> We all want and deserve to have a clear plan of reopening. By now with the vaccine rollout as it is, this should be clearly outlined. Absolutely. Different governments could have done better job communicating throughout this pandemic, in Canada we try to be patient even though our patience is truly being tested at this point. A clear plan, a glimpse of hope rather than the constant “now is not the time to travel” would be nice when it comes  to border reopening. This is where other countries have done better offering hope and some end date for different restrictions.
> Airlines and the tourism sector needs advance notice to re-start. The general population needs to know when they might be able to visit family across the border and even (gasp!) take that vacation. What can we plan for? When? Even if the date is 2 months from now, tell us.
> I’m afraid as a country we are waiting for covid to be gone and cases near zero and that likely won’t happen for a long time.
> Fingers crossed that our PM actually listens to the science he has been saying he would follow.



I think that the problem with giving a date is that people will start to book things and then if that date falls through, people are very upset with the gov't.  When you don't give a date, people are going to just hang off making plans.


And it isn't just our country that we are looking at for statistics.  A variant could suddenly take hold in Florida ( just an example) and then rules would al have to change again.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

I'm all for opening once we hit the vaccination targets, which I do think will happen by fall. But why not give us an outline of what we can expect at that time?  Fully vaxxed = no quarantine, but you get a take-home test to do on day 5, for example.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

damo said:


> I think that the problem with giving a date is that people will start to book things and then if that date falls through, people are very upset with the gov't.  When you don't give a date, people are going to just hang off making plans.
> 
> 
> And it isn't just our country that we are looking at for statistics.  A variant could suddenly take hold in Florida ( just an example) and then rules would al have to change again.


It doesn’t have to be a concrete date... and at least for the next year all plans we make are tentative until they actually happen.
Before vaccines were steadily rolling into Canada it was tricky to give a sort of “end date” on restrictions but by now, having roughly 60% of Canadians vaccinated  with first dose, I believe a plan should be/could be laid out that includes an approximate timeline.
What I think we as a country need at this point is hope. I know variants are showing up in other places but none of them are walking back their restrictions now, we have the vaccines and we need to keep moving forward.
You bring up a very good point and I agree it’s been tricky. It is June 2021 though where we have the vaccines here and we have watched other countries reopen, patiently waiting our turn.
The government’s own advisory on the boarder reopening has advised them to follow the science and open having different rules for fully, partially and unvaccinated passengers. Anyway, they could have a phased approach like the provinces do, but something should be said at least by the end of this month.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> I'm all for opening once we hit the vaccination targets, which I do think will happen by fall. But why not give us an outline of what we can expect at that time?  Fully vaxxed = no quarantine, but you get a take-home test to do on day 5, for example.


I think that’s exactly what people are hoping for, some kind of a timeline if we hit certain vaccination targets.
Also, side note but I know there are people out there that don’t plan to get the vaccine unless they won’t be able to freely travel without it. Having a plan laid out in advance could entice those sitting on the fence to get vaccinated which in turn will help with everything else.


----------



## Minniemoo15

NB has given concrete dates (June 7, July 1 and Aug 2). These phases are very easy to understand and motivating in that we really can have our lives back soon. They have been very clear though that there are vaccination targets attached to these days and if we miss the target, we are not moving to the next phase. It’s actually brilliant because everyone has shifted from talking about our daily covid count to our % vaccinated. Nobody cares about the 9 cases we reported yesterday... it’s all about how many NBers now have their first dose and close are we to moving to the next phase ?

For example - by June 7 we need 75% vaccinated with first dose. We only had 67.5% as of yesterday. It’s unlikely we will meet the target Monday (looking more like Thursday) but there has been a HUGE push to get our numbers up this weekend. Lots of extra walk ins, drive thru clinics, media and social media encouraging people to get their first dose. People I know who were on the fence or were going to wait a while are now
going ASAP to try and meet our first goal. It feels like a big collective push.

I think the federal government could do something similar. NBs plan is clear and easy to understand but still tied to realistic measures.
People here mostly are feeling very motivated, encouraged, and hopeful with the plan.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

@Minniemoo15 NS is doing 2-4 weeks intervals and we were all like "we want dates!".  So the Premier said okay. Two weeks from June 1 is June 14, so that is target #1, if that falls through then June 28 is target #2, etc.

I think we will move into Phase 2 on time (June 14) and then Phase 3 will be July 14, Phase 4 will be August 14 and finally Phase 5 hopefully by the time school starts (Sept 7).


----------



## Sue M

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> It doesn’t have to be a concrete date... and at least for the next year all plans we make are tentative until they actually happen.
> Before vaccines were steadily rolling into Canada it was tricky to give a sort of “end date” on restrictions but by now, having roughly 60% of Canadians vaccinated  with first dose, I believe a plan should be/could be laid out that includes an approximate timeline.
> What I think we as a country need at this point is hope. I know variants are showing up in other places but none of them are walking back their restrictions now, we have the vaccines and we need to keep moving forward.
> You bring up a very good point and I agree it’s been tricky. It is June 2021 though where we have the vaccines here and we have watched other countries reopen, patiently waiting our turn.
> The government’s own advisory on the boarder reopening has advised them to follow the science and open having different rules for fully, partially and unvaccinated passengers. Anyway, they could have a phased approach like the provinces do, but something should be said at least by the end of this month.


My feelings too. We need a 3 part plan for vaccinated, partly vaccinated and non vaccinated. This is a safe approach and allow people to get on with their lives. And if I’m not wrong, I think the vaccines work on the variants?  
In BC I think we’re up to 70% for 1st shot. DH going in today for 2nd jab. 1 daughter & I going next week for our 2nd yay!


----------



## Sue M

damo said:


> I think that the problem with giving a date is that people will start to book things and then if that date falls through, people are very upset with the gov't.  When you don't give a date, people are going to just hang off making plans.
> 
> 
> And it isn't just our country that we are looking at for statistics.  A variant could suddenly take hold in Florida ( just an example) and then rules would al have to change again.


But we’re being told the vaccine is working for variants too, so that shouldn’t be an issue  
I feel it’s time to open up Now with the guidelines we’ve been talking about for the 3 stages of vaccinated or non, and partial vaccinated. 
I think maybe open after the July 1 & 4th holidays.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

Sue M said:


> My feelings too. We need a 3 part plan for vaccinated, partly vaccinated and non vaccinated. This is a safe approach and allow people to get on with their lives. And if I’m not wrong, I think the vaccines work on the variants?
> In BC I think we’re up to 70% for 1st shot. DH going in today for 2nd jab. 1 daughter & I going next week for our 2nd yay!


We are not yet anywhere close to 2nd shots in Ontario (unless you are 70 or 80+) but really hope they accelerate this soon.
I’m 39 this year so not sure when my turn here will be, my appt is for Sep 18 right now... DH and I signed up for the Windsor /Detroit tunnel vaccine if it comes to fruition in July for us that would be fantastic.


----------



## Sue M

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> We are not yet anywhere close to 2nd shots in Ontario (unless you are 70 or 80+) but really hope they accelerate this soon.
> I’m 39 this year so not sure when my turn here will be, my appt is for Sep 18 right now... DH and I signed up for the Windsor /Detroit tunnel vaccine if it comes to fruition in July for us that would be fantastic.


I don’t understand why the vaccine rollout differs so much province to province.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

Sue M said:


> I don’t understand why the vaccine rollout differs so much province to province.


Don’t even get me started on Ontario’s reopening plan... step 1 doesn’t begin to around June 14 and that gets us 15% non essential retail (all our non essential retail  has been closed since early April) and 4 people per table on restaurant patios. Sometime in July we might be able to get a hair cut...
With the vaccine it’s probably Ontario’s numbers but not sure.


----------



## suse66

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> Don’t even get me started on Ontario’s reopening plan... step 1 doesn’t begin to around June 14 and that gets us 15% non essential retail (all our non essential retail  has been closed since early April) and 4 people per table on restaurant patios. Sometime in July we might be able to get a hair cut...
> With the vaccine it’s probably Ontario’s numbers but not sure.


I think it depends what part of the province you are in. Here in York Region they are are opening 2nd shots to anyone who had their first shot on or before April 18th starting tomorrow! Things are moving quickly now. Peel is putting a big push on as well.


----------



## ellbell

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> We are not yet anywhere close to 2nd shots in Ontario (unless you are 70 or 80+) but really hope they accelerate this soon.
> I’m 39 this year so not sure when my turn here will be, my appt is for Sep 18 right now... DH and I signed up for the Windsor /Detroit tunnel vaccine if it comes to fruition in July for us that would be fantastic.


Anyone who had a shot before May 9th in Ontario is eligible to book an appointment for a second shot.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

ellbell said:


> Anyone who had a shot before May 9th in Ontario is eligible to book an appointment for a second shot.


We had our first shot May 29 only a week ago. Our second one is scheduled for Sep 18 right now


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

suse66 said:


> I think it depends what part of the province you are in. Here in York Region there are opening 2nd shots to anyone who had their first shot on or before April 18th starting tomorrow! Things are moving quickly now. Peel is putting a big push on as well.


Quite honestly it makes sense that most of the shots go to Toronto/Peel right now.
We are middlesex London. It says on our health unit website starting JUNE 7 individuals turning 80 in 2021 can book 2nd doses.


----------



## ellbell

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> We had our first shot May 29 only a week ago.


Ok but the process has started in Ontario already for second shots so saying you aren't anywhere close isn't really accurate.  I had AZ so am required to wait 12 weeks and am eligible on July 13.  You will probably be around the same time or even sooner.  Ontario has now moved up the timeline twice for second shots in Ontario so don't be discouraged.  Mid July is only 5 weeks away.

Just be proactive in rescheduling your second shot.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

ellbell said:


> Ok but the process has started in Ontario already for second shots so saying you aren't anywhere close isn't really accurate.  I had AZ so am required to wait 12 weeks and am eligible on July 13.  You will probably be around the same time or even sooner.  Ontario has now moved up the timeline twice for second shots in Ontario so don't be discouraged.  Mid July is only 5 weeks away.
> 
> Just be proactive in rescheduling your second shot.


It must depend where in Ontario because where we live starting tomorrow those 80 and older can book second doses.
I am hoping by mid July we can book too, I know we will be able to move our sept 18 appt up and hoping it will be in July, but not sure.
https://www.healthunit.com/covid-19-vaccine-eligibility#second-dose-schedule


----------



## ellbell

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> It must depend where in Ontario because where we live starting tomorrow those 80 and older can book second doses.
> I am hoping by mid July we can book too, I know we will be able to move our sept 18 appt up and hoping it will be in July, but not sure.
> https://www.healthunit.com/covid-19-vaccine-eligibility#second-dose-schedule


I was looking on the provincial booking portal.


----------



## Donald - my hero

ellbell said:


> I was looking on the provincial booking portal.


*some of us can't use the provincial site! Our health unit has their own portal and it's a pre-registration route.  Some people are still waiting since signing up in March for the link to use to try and find a time and place for their first shot. We're dealing with supply issues,  plenty of clinics but not enough vaccines.  Even though we were included in the AZ at doctor's offices for the first round they don't all have enough for 2nd shots and none of our pharmacies have any yet. 

I have confidence that we'll get there soonish but it's frustrating for people to comprehend the discrepancy between areas in the province, what we're being told to do and what actually happens. *


----------



## Jrb1979

I understand the frustration in trying to book an appointment. Not enough people know about the Vaccine Hunters on social media. I used them to get my first appointment. They post constantly of places with availability.


----------



## ellbell

Donald - my hero said:


> *some of us can't use the provincial site! Our health unit has their own portal and it's a pre-registration route.  Some people are still waiting since signing up in March for the link to use to try and find a time and place for their first shot. We're dealing with supply issues,  plenty of clinics but not enough vaccines.  Even though we were included in the AZ at doctor's offices for the first round they don't all have enough for 2nd shots and none of our pharmacies have any yet.
> 
> I have confidence that we'll get there soonish but it's frustrating for people to comprehend the discrepancy between areas in the province, what we're being told to do and what actually happens. *


If I were in that situation I'd be using the provincial booking site and going to the closest place that I could.


----------



## damo

Donald - my hero said:


> *some of us can't use the provincial site! Our health unit has their own portal and it's a pre-registration route.  Some people are still waiting since signing up in March for the link to use to try and find a time and place for their first shot. We're dealing with supply issues,  plenty of clinics but not enough vaccines.  Even though we were included in the AZ at doctor's offices for the first round they don't all have enough for 2nd shots and none of our pharmacies have any yet.
> 
> I have confidence that we'll get there soonish but it's frustrating for people to comprehend the discrepancy between areas in the province, what we're being told to do and what actually happens. *



Yes.  For example, in Wellington County, my 90+ parents could not get an appointment until the end of June for second shot through their public health unit.  We even called and were told that if we cancelled them, it would be even later before we got them on. 

We put them on some pharmacy waiting lists on Wednesday and they were vaccinated by Friday.  You really need to be proactive in some PHUs


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

ellbell said:


> If I were in that situation I'd be using the provincial booking site and going to the closest place that I could.


I didn’t realize we could use anything else but our health unit - can you link by chance where to go?


----------



## newdeal

The province of Ontario made a really big mistake by opening vaccinations to the under 30 age group before starting second doses to the over 30 age group. The risk for under 30 is approaching zero. I am sure some people want their 12 year olds getting a dose in spite of their being no risk but common sense would dictate otherwise. At this point I feel like they should go the Florida route for second shots and just get people or wait in line (or drive thru) rather than booking appointments as our delivery is starting to fall behind supply.


----------



## wdwmom3

Donald - my hero said:


> *some of us can't use the provincial site! Our health unit has their own portal and it's a pre-registration route.  Some people are still waiting since signing up in March for the link to use to try and find a time and place for their first shot. We're dealing with supply issues,  plenty of clinics but not enough vaccines.  Even though we were included in the AZ at doctor's offices for the first round they don't all have enough for 2nd shots and none of our pharmacies have any yet.
> 
> I have confidence that we'll get there soonish but it's frustrating for people to comprehend the discrepancy between areas in the province, what we're being told to do and what actually happens. *



There is so much pfyser and moderna offered at pharmacies now that people who still need first shots shouldn’t be waiting.    If they haven’t gotten an appointment they should just go to a pharmacy.


----------



## wdwmom3

newdeal said:


> The province of Ontario made a really big mistake by opening vaccinations to the under 30 age group before starting second doses to the over 30 age group. The risk for under 30 is approaching zero. I am sure some people want their 12 year olds getting a dose in spite of their being no risk but common sense would dictate otherwise. At this point I feel like they should go the Florida route for second shots and just get people or wait in line (or drive thru) rather than booking appointments as our delivery is starting to fall behind supply.



They opened up to those groups because they want them vaccinated for the fall.  I’m seeing so much availability at pharmacies for both pfyser and moderna, many doing walk ins.   It won’t be long before everyone can get their second shot.


----------



## ellbell

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> I didn’t realize we could use anything else but our health unit - can you link by chance where to go?


I don't see why you couldn't.  You are allowed to book even without a health card. 
https://covid-19.ontario.ca/book-vaccine/


----------



## wdwmom3

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> I didn’t realize we could use anything else but our health unit - can you link by chance where to go?



You can go to any area.  Also check out pharmacies.  Sobeys shows you what type of vaccine and you can actually book through their site.


----------



## wdwmom3

ellbell said:


> I don't see why you couldn't.  You are allowed to book even without a health card.
> https://covid-19.ontario.ca/book-vaccine/



You are allowed to.   I know many people who have gone to different PHU then their own for various reasons.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

ellbell said:


> I don't see why you couldn't.  You are allowed to book even without a health card.
> https://covid-19.ontario.ca/book-vaccine/


Thank you - when I try to book there it takes me to our Health unit website, so no changes... for now.


----------



## ellbell

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> Thank you - when I try to book there it takes me to our Health unit website, so no changes... for now.


Try using an incognito browser and a fake postal code


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

wdwmom3 said:


> You can go to any area.  Also check out pharmacies.  Sobeys shows you what type of vaccine and you can actually book through their site.


Thanks, I didn’t know I can go through a different health unit. Will keep that in mind if things don’t move up in MLHU.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

ellbell said:


> Try using an incognito browser and a fake postal code


I’ll have to keep an eye out, at this point I’m only a week after the first shot. I don’t want to book in a high risk area and take that spot away from someone else but if there are earlier spots available in the non hot spot areas than what we will be able to get, will definitely keep that in mind.
I honestly had no idea you could show up somewhere else, when we went for our first dose they wanted our address. Would they turn us away if it was a different city? I guess it makes sense they wouldn’t. As for the pharmacies we were also signed up for our first appt at several pharmacies in the area and nobody contacted us with an available spot. I cancelled the wait list after 2 weeks.


----------



## hdrolfe

I know some places in Ottawa are turning away people who don't have the right address. I believe because of supply issues. When they run pop up clinics it is only for certain addresses. 

All in all, I wish they were doing a better job of making it equitable across the various provinces, and even with each province. I hope we get there. Soon. I am still trying to just be glad that so many people still want to be vaccinated.


----------



## hawgwilld

I thought this thread was about border opening ?


----------



## Jrb1979

hawgwilld said:


> I thought this thread was about border opening ?


It is but vaccination rate is tied to that.


----------



## ottawamom

Donald - my hero said:


> *some of us can't use the provincial site! Our health unit has their own portal and it's a pre-registration route.  Some people are still waiting since signing up in March for the link to use to try and find a time and place for their first shot. We're dealing with supply issues,  plenty of clinics but not enough vaccines.  Even though we were included in the AZ at doctor's offices for the first round they don't all have enough for 2nd shots and none of our pharmacies have any yet.
> 
> I have confidence that we'll get there soonish but it's frustrating for people to comprehend the discrepancy between areas in the province, what we're being told to do and what actually happens. *





Jrb1979 said:


> I understand the frustration in trying to book an appointment. Not enough people know about the Vaccine Hunters on social media. I used them to get my first appointment. They post constantly of places with availability.





wdwmom3 said:


> There is so much pfyser and moderna offered at pharmacies now that people who still need first shots shouldn’t be waiting.    If they haven’t gotten an appointment they should just go to a pharmacy.


As others have mentioned not all parts of this province are created equal. The rollout of vaccines has for the most part been heavily focused on the GTA to the detriment of other regions. That is great if you happen to live in the GTA but not if you live elsewhere. Walking up to a pharmacy is not always a possiblity. Vaccine Hunters is an interesting tool but not always accurate.

Yes there are some pop up clinics but most of them you would need to be in lineup at 5am just to get one of the 300-500 shots they may have available. Two of my 3 sons have had their jabs. The 3rd one is waiting until June 26th for his first shot (he works from home and doesn't want to take a shot away from someone who may need it more)

We'll all get there but patience is a necessity these days. The world will be there waiting for all of us when it is safe.


----------



## 2Lunds

newdeal said:


> The province of Ontario made a really big mistake by opening vaccinations to the under 30 age group before starting second doses to the over 30 age group. The risk for under 30 is approaching zero. I am sure some people want their 12 year olds getting a dose in spite of their being no risk but common sense would dictate otherwise. At this point I feel like they should go the Florida route for second shots and just get people or wait in line (or drive thru) rather than booking appointments as our delivery is starting to fall behind supply.


Under 40s have borne the brunt of infections here in MB during our third wave and our hospitals are so overrun that we're shipping patients off to Ontario and Saskatchewan.  They may not be dying at the same rate that seniors did, but they are staying longer in hospital, and greatly increasing the burden on the healthcare system.  6 cardiac patients died in May because they couldn't schedule surgeries, and there are many other stories of folks getting sicker and dying due to delayed treatment plans.  Personally, I think shifting to younger essential/frontline/manufacturing etc... workers should have been the priority here after getting seniors and care home residents vaccinated.  Those of us who are retired, work from home, or have semi-private offices where we can distance outselves could have waited.


----------



## quandrea

Wrong thread


----------



## Susan2771

As of today, those in Ontario who received their first Moderna or Pfizer dose on April 18 or earlier, can book a second dose, along with those 70 and up.  Was able to get my second dose now for next Monday.  The original second dose date for myself was July 27th.  Here at my office, a group of us were successful in rebooking new second dose dates.  Fingers and toes crossed they compress the revised second dose schedule the Ford Government announced just over a week ago.  For those in my office who received Pfizer, they were able to get second dose appointments this week.  Those of us who are Moderna, the second dose appointments seemed to be available starting June 14, nothing for this week


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

Susan2771 said:


> As of today, those in Ontario who received their first Moderna or Pfizer dose on April 18 or earlier, can book a second dose, along with those 70 and up.  Was able to get my second dose now for next Monday.  The original second dose date for myself was July 27th.  Here at my office, a group of us were successful in rebooking new second dose dates.  Fingers and toes crossed they compress the revised second dose schedule the Ford Government announced just over a week ago.  For those in my office who received Pfizer, they were able to get second dose appointments this week.  Those of us who are Moderna, the second dose appointments seemed to be available starting June 14, nothing for this week


That’s certainly moving up! We got our first dose May 29, 2nd appt set for sept 18. I think we may be able to go a month earlier (mid august) based on the new schedule but same as you I hope even sooner.


----------



## mshanson3121

Have any said yet what is happening with children under 12, as far as isolation after travel and masking requirements? Either in parks or in provinces?

I did see that Sea World Corp. will require all children under 12 to still wear a mask.


----------



## Pumpkin1172

It will be interesting to see what happens in the coming weeks.  

It is reported that Trudeau will be travelling outside of Canada for G7 Meetings and WILL NOT be staying at a quarantine hotel upon coming home.  

Now that they have raised the fine for not following quarantine guidelines the fine doubles...even though the panel they put together to do a report on the quarantine regulations states that it is " ineffective" and they should use the tools that they have at their disposal.  

I sure hope they decide to " follow the science" as they have stated they " would " do.  I guess this is also a case of....Do as I say...not as I do


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

Edit - irrelevant response on my part.


----------



## bcwife76

Pumpkin1172 said:


> It will be interesting to see what happens in the coming weeks.
> 
> It is reported that Trudeau will be travelling outside of Canada for G7 Meetings and WILL NOT be staying at a quarantine hotel upon coming home.
> 
> Now that they have raised the fine for not following quarantine guidelines the fine doubles...even though the panel they put together to do a report on the quarantine regulations states that it is " ineffective" and they should use the tools that they have at their disposal.
> 
> I sure hope they decide to " follow the science" as they have stated they " would " do.  I guess this is also a case of....Do as I say...not as I do


Are you sure he won't be? Where did you read that? As of three days ago it was reported he WOULD be staying in a quarantine hotel when he returns:
https://globalnews.ca/news/7921633/covid-hotel-quarantine-justin-trudeau/
As for the kids under 12, it's all a guessing game at this point. Nunavut just announced they would open their borders to people who are vaccinated but if you are traveling with kids under 12 you have to isolate. Uh, no thanks. Same goes for the Yukon. And I think most Atlantic provinces? Not impressed


----------



## Pumpkin1172

bcwife76 said:


> Are you sure he won't be? Where did you read that? As of three days ago it was reported he WOULD be staying in a quarantine hotel when he returns:
> https://globalnews.ca/news/7921633/covid-hotel-quarantine-justin-trudeau/



https://fb.watch/5_kzy3zHc1/
There is a difference between quarantining at a hotel that everyone else has to isolate at VS one that " He" seems to think is better suited to him


----------



## bcwife76

Pumpkin1172 said:


> https://fb.watch/5_kzy3zHc1/
> There is a difference between quarantining at a hotel that everyone else has to isolate at VS one that " He" seems to think is better suited to him


Oh so he's staying at a 'special hotel' whatever that means. Guess he doesn't want to be with the riff raff


----------



## Pumpkin1172

bcwife76 said:


> As for the kids under 12, it's all a guessing game at this point. Nunavut just announced they would open their borders to people who are vaccinated but if you are traveling with kids under 12 you have to isolate. Uh, no thanks. Same goes for the Yukon. And I think most Atlantic provinces? Not impressed



I had read that!!!  Which is awesome for them. 

I have family that lives in the NWT.  They have not loosened restrictions for them yet, even though they have a huge % of people that have had both of their vaccinations.  

My bil's gf is needing to go back to Newfoundland to see her dad who is very sick in the hospital.  They would have to quarantine upon arrival in NFL, then go visit Dad, then isolate again upon returning to NWT for 7 days even though they have had both their vaccinations. 

What is the point of vaccinating if restrictions are not going to lift....especially in a case like this.  

I feel for anyone who needs to travel in Canada to visit  loved ones who are sick in hospital....as well as anyone wanting to come into Canada to see family as well.


----------



## ellbell

Pumpkin1172 said:


> I had read that!!!  Which is awesome for them.
> 
> I have family that lives in the NWT.  They have not loosened restrictions for them yet, even though they have a huge % of people that have had both of their vaccinations.
> 
> My bil's gf is needing to go back to Newfoundland to see her dad who is very sick in the hospital.  They would have to quarantine upon arrival in NFL, then go visit Dad, then isolate again upon returning to NWT for 7 days even though they have had both their vaccinations.
> 
> What is the point of vaccinating if restrictions are not going to lift....especially in a case like this.
> 
> I feel for anyone who needs to travel in Canada to visit  loved ones who are sick in hospital....as well as anyone wanting to come into Canada to see family as well.


I've toldy husband that if he is required to quarantine after our cruise in September that we willbe fully vaccinated for to go to work and risk the fine.  He can fight it because there is no reason to quarantine if the vaccine is suppose to keep you safe.  At that point it's unlawful confinement.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Okay I just thought about something.

Let’s say it is fall and we have the 2-dose immunity the govt keeps preaching. But they haven’t done away with the hotels.  What if I go to Florida and have a direct flight to Halifax or make my connection in the US? Halifax doesnt have the govt hotels. Will the govt make the airlines stop flights again to prevent people from connecting in other locations rather than in the four airports?

As of today, I can book direct to and from Florida.


----------



## Susan2771

Talks are ramping up.  

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trudeau-international-visitors-restrictions-1.6056584


----------



## ellbell

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> Okay I just thought about something.
> 
> Let’s say it is fall and we have the 2-dose immunity the govt keeps preaching. But they haven’t done away with the hotels.  What if I go to Florida and have a direct flight to Halifax or make my connection in the US? Halifax doesnt have the govt hotels. Will the govt make the airlines stop flights again to prevent people from connecting in other locations rather than in the four airports?
> 
> As of today, I can book direct to and from Florida.


Is Halifax one of the airports allowed to accept international flights right now?  If the hotel quarantine is still in existence you probably won't be able to catch a direcr flight to Halifax.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

ellbell said:


> Is Halifax one of the airports allowed to accept international flights right now?  If the hotel quarantine is still in existence you probably won't be able to catch a direcr flight to Halifax.


No it isn’t, but when I look at our dates in Nov and Dec, I can fly in and out of Halifax.


----------



## ellbell

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> No it isn’t, but when I look at our dates in Nov and Dec, I can fly in and out of Halifax.


It will depend on if the current rules change.  Until then no direct international flights to Halifax.  That means you have to do the hotel quarantine in the city you land in and then catch a flight to Halifax.


----------



## ottawamom

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> No it isn’t, but when I look at our dates in Nov and Dec, I can fly in and out of Halifax.


The airlines are allowing you to book with the hope that things will be back to normal. If they aren't the airlines will be forced to change your flight to one that goes through Montreal or Toronto. They are banking on not having to do this but if the rules don't change well.... You should be able to get a refund though as that would be a major flight change which would qualify.


----------



## hdrolfe

Susan2771 said:


> Talks are ramping up.
> 
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trudeau-international-visitors-restrictions-1.6056584



Interesting read, will be interesting to see what will happen, and I guess kids will be out of luck since they are talking about only fully vaccinated crossing. Hopefully in stages it will be open fully by fall regardless.


----------



## Susan2771

This hit the news this morning.  Hopefully good news coming out very shortly, as the article talks about a sense of urgency.  Get those vaccines if you want to travel

Canada set to relax quarantine rules for vaccinated travellers - BNN Bloomberg


----------



## pigletto

Susan2771 said:


> This hit the news this morning.  Hopefully good news coming out very shortly, as the article talks about a sense of urgency.  Get those vaccines if you want to travel
> 
> Canada set to relax quarantine rules for vaccinated travellers - BNN Bloomberg


There’s enough chatter now to feel like it’s going to be a reality soon. They were also discussing it on the Buffalo news this morning. I hope they stick to their guns on the fully vaccinated part for allowing people in .

Otherwise this is great news for the economic recovery of our border communities and trade as a whole.

We have no plans to travel until January but it will be interesting to watch it all unfold. I’m glad I have time to wait and see how it goes.


----------



## TommyJK

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> I want to know about Canadians returning home after US/International travel.
> 
> They keep talking about letting in foreigners, but tell your own citizens what can be expected of them first.  If I am fully vaxxed, there is no way I should be subjected to the quarantines when coming home.



The articles keep noting "Travellers entering Canada".  I'm assuming that means both foreign travellers or Canadian travellers returning home.  It would make no sense to have vastly different rules for each group


----------



## pigletto

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> I want to know about Canadians returning home after US/International travel.
> 
> They keep talking about letting in foreigners, but tell your own citizens what can be expected of them first.  If I am fully vaxxed, there is no way I should be subjected to the quarantines when coming home.


while I understand that , absolutely nothing official has come out . These are anonymous sources speaking to news outlets . They haven’t said anything at all and everyone is already mad .


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

I think that's why everyone is mad...because they aren't saying anything LOL


----------



## Pumpkin1172

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> I think that's why everyone is mad...because they aren't saying anything LOL


BINGO!!!!  They don't have a plan, or didn't and now have to scramble ( as they have for the past 15 months)  to come up with a plan.  

They increased the fine because people are not listening, or just taking the fine and not paying it (mostly).  I feel it's a scare tactic to force people to stay home and " get that shot" so that normal life can begin again.  That is their wording.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

I think people were okay with the no-traveling messaging for a while, but once the vaccinations ramped up, that's when the travel industry and govts (US / CDN) started to make noise.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Jrb1979 said:


> I honestly think it's more the US that's pushing for it. I honestly believe part of the hold up is vaccine passports. Canada wants it to be a requirement but the US has been against them.



You don't think Canadian travel industry and govt are pushing for it to open? All of the travel industry websites that I frequent have daily articles written about it.  They are over it.


----------



## Jrb1979

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> You don't think Canadian travel industry and govt are pushing for it to open? All of the travel industry websites that I frequent have daily articles written about it.  They are over it.


I don't think the govt is pushing that much. They want that vaccination rate up. IMO it's the travel industry and the border tourism cities pushing for it. I personally I am good for it to stay closed til fall. Would rather more fully vaccinated before the border opens.


----------



## Jrb1979

https://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/manitob...n-cards-for-fully-vaccinated-people-1.5460924
I wouldn't be surprised if more provinces do the same. Personally I'm all for it. We have come to far and close to the end of this. I don't want to have to keep shutting things down cause cases start rising again.


----------



## Susan2771

Another call to ease restrictions for border crossing   Trudeau urged by U.S., Canada business to open Border this month - BNN Bloomberg


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

My main fear is they will open the border but keep the govt hotels.


----------



## Jrb1979

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> My main fear is they will open the border but keep the govt hotels.


Possible. It would only be for those not vaccinated. My hope is the vaccine passport stays in place for awhile


----------



## suse66

azrivest said:


> Quebec has about the same numbers : as of today, 67% of first doses for the 30-39 age group. I'm in this bracket and myself, and everyone around me (friends, family), have also been vaccinated. So please don't generalize saying we're not interested. That's not true   It's still 2 out of 3 people, that's not half bad...
> 
> But I also personally doubt that we'll reach 75% for all age groups. What will they do then? Keep the border closed for another year?


I don't think it's a 75% requirement for every age group. My understanding is that once we reached 75% of the eligible population with one dose and 20% with two, we were good to go.


----------



## mshanson3121

suse66 said:


> I don't think it's a 75% requirement for every age group. My understanding is that once we reached 75% of the eligible population with one dose and 20% with two, we were good to go.



Yes, this. 75% of all eligible people, in total. At least here in NB. So currently we're basically counting on the 12-19 year olds to bring up our total to 75%.


----------



## NewYKRunner

suse66 said:


> I don't think it's a 75% requirement for every age group. My understanding is that once we reached 75% of the eligible population with one dose and 20% with two, we were good to go.



That's Dr Tam's recommendation from April.  We're not too far off from that.  

Also, don't forget some people can't, or they're advised against, getting a vaccine.  It's not just that some people don't want to.


----------



## ottawamom

I think everyone in this country needs to be a little patient for a while longer. The vaccine roll out has not been uniform across the country and it is unfair for some to be able to travel when others are still waiting for their vaccine opportunities. We are all in this together. Count yourself lucky that you no longer have to worry about getting seriously ill and enjoy the area in which you have chosen to live.

Life will be more normal soon. Patience until then.


----------



## pangyal

I wonder how the US will handle AZ since it’s not approved there. Surely they will have to accept it as a valid form of vaccination in order to allow the UK, Canadians, etc. to travel there? I’m only musing about it because I’m looking at an Attestation Form that’s required to be submitted with a negative test for air travel to the US right now and it says that fully vaccinated people are considered those that have finished their course of Pfizer, Moderna, or J&J, but of course AZ is not approved there so it’s not on the list.  This is a hole they are going to need to patch pretty quickly, IMHO.


----------



## bcwife76

pangyal said:


> I wonder how the US will handle AZ since it’s not approved there. Surely they will have to accept it as a valid form of vaccination in order to allow the UK, Canadians, etc. to travel there? I’m only musing about it because I’m looking at an Attestation Form that’s required to be submitted with a negative test for air travel to the US right now and it says that fully vaccinated people are considered those that have finished their course of Pfizer, Moderna, or J&J, but of course AZ is not approved there so it’s not on the list.  This is a hole they are going to need to patch pretty quickly, IMHO.


Eventhough it's not approved in the US, they will accept it for travelers. Here is a link to the cdc and near the bottom of the page with an asterisk it states they will accept AZ:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/201...NWiTveKCIYPF2lSlU4CJD2YogftXT__51ZUXJQHxB6c5s


----------



## Sue M

pangyal said:


> I wonder how the US will handle AZ since it’s not approved there. Surely they will have to accept it as a valid form of vaccination in order to allow the UK, Canadians, etc. to travel there? I’m only musing about it because I’m looking at an Attestation Form that’s required to be submitted with a negative test for air travel to the US right now and it says that fully vaccinated people are considered those that have finished their course of Pfizer, Moderna, or J&J, but of course AZ is not approved there so it’s not on the list.  This is a hole they are going to need to patch pretty quickly, IMHO.


Ugh, I haven’t even looked at that form yet. As I’m hoping once border opens we won’t have to submit a Covid test if we’re fully vaccinated.  I haven’t yet bought airfare for Aug. because I won’t go until quarantine and all these tests are dropped. Adds a lot of $$$ to cost of trip.  And we can’t quarantine, daughter has to go back to work. 

Did book Air for Oct trip. Hopefully won’t have to go through this by Oct. if we are vaccinated.


----------



## pigletto

There is a Toronto Star article today saying that some sort of announcements could come as soon as this Friday.


----------



## mshanson3121

pigletto said:


> There is a Toronto Star article today saying that some sort of announcements could come as soon as this Friday.



I'm really waiting to see if they renew on June 21st. There's been so many rumors floating around that they're not going to. And if they aren't...Friday would be the perfect time to announce it.


----------



## pigletto

mshanson3121 said:


> I'm really waiting to see if they renew on June 21st. There's been so many rumors floating around that they're not going to. And if they aren't...Friday would be the perfect time to announce it.


I think so too . I think that’s what all of the chatter this week has been eluding to.
If they do extend the closure I think they are going to announce the plans and details of reopening to soften the blow a bit . There will be a lot of details and requirements  to ease people into.


----------



## hdrolfe

I hope even if they do extend it on June 21st, they set the plan for when it will reopen. I guess time will tell.


----------



## mshanson3121

pigletto said:


> I think so too . I think that’s what all of the chatter this week has been eluding to.
> If they do extend the closure I think they are going to announce the plans and details of reopening to soften the blow a bit . There will be a lot of details and requirements  to ease people into.



I agree. I think they've hit the point where they know they need to give the people something. I mean, it's not just us "common folk" lol, who want to know - you've got politicians speaking up on both sides now, saying it's time. We're a border town, and while on our side of the border the stores and shops have fared well for the most part, I know on the opposite side, it has hurt them desperately. I can see why they are desperate to get it opened up so they can try and salvage the summer tourist season. And I think the politicians see that - that too many businesses just can't survive another summer.


----------



## wdwmom3

ottawamom said:


> OMG this is a pandemic. I can't get over all the people who feel their rights are being infringed upon. We live in a privileged country that has vaccine. We are almost at the end of this. There are places in this world who are going to continue living with Covid hanging over their heads for years to come.
> 
> Get over your momentary discomfort. This is just a blip in time. The end is in sight. Lets all get there together and stop arguing about stupid truly insignicant stuff.



This 100%


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## WebmasterDoc

PLEASE review the DIS Covid discussion policy - pinned at the top of this forum. https://www.disboards.com/threads/disboards-covid-19-discussion-policy-effective-06-06-2021.3840666/

A number of recent posts (and those that quote them) have been removed from this thread as a result of this policy. 

No warnings were issued for those posts but similar posts in the future will come with a warning.

Thanks in advance for your future cooperation.


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## ilovetotravel1977

*Ottawa to end hotel quarantine; relaxed rules for vaxxed travellers, border changes coming Friday: reports*


https://news.paxeditions.com/news/a...avellers-border-changes-coming-friday-reports
BOOM!


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

I will be stalking the CBC site for this announcement.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Timing of this announcement makes sense for a couple of reasons:

1. JT is going to the G7 meeting June 11-13 where I'm sure they will be discussing the vaccine passport; and
2. June 21 renewal of border agreement.


----------



## TommyJK

They just announced on the news I'm watching this morning that an announcement will be coming today at noon.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Likely 12 EST


----------



## mshanson3121

TommyJK said:


> They just announced on the news I'm watching this morning that an announcement will be coming today at noon.



An actual announcement, or an announcement of the upcoming announcement I wonder lol


----------



## JETSDAD




----------



## TommyJK

mshanson3121 said:


> An actual announcement, or an announcement of the upcoming announcement I wonder lol



That's much more an Ontario Announcement strategy


----------



## Sue M

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> *Ottawa to end hotel quarantine; relaxed rules for vaxxed travellers, border changes coming Friday: reports*
> 
> 
> https://news.paxeditions.com/news/a...avellers-border-changes-coming-friday-reports
> BOOM!


I don’t know what the point is of returning travellers to still get a Covid test if fully vaccinated?  And quarantine at home until results are in. Guess that will still nix Aug trip. Daughter gets 2 weeks, and we are booked to return Saturday night for her return to work Monday. Or shorten vacay to return early for test & quarantine. Ugh.  Last I looked charge for test was $200ish per person. 
I wonder if the US will still require neg test to enter?  This will add a prox $800 to trip. .


----------



## ottawamom

The reason for the tests coming and going is that no one is certain how well the vaccines will work against the variants that are now (or may be). It is still possible to contract Covid (or variants) and transmit them to others. Again the science isn't certain yet to what degree so they are still being cautious.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

I was just reading an article that the EU that states:

European Union lawmakers on Wednesday endorsed a new travel certificate that will allow people to move between European countries without having to quarantine or undergo extra coronavirus tests, paving the way for the pass to start in time for summer. 

I am thinking Canada will eventually do something similar since we tend to look at Europe for our every decision we make LOL


----------



## wdwmom3

Sue M said:


> I don’t know what the point is of returning travellers to still get a Covid test if fully vaccinated?  And quarantine at home until results are in. Guess that will still nix Aug trip. Daughter gets 2 weeks, and we are booked to return Saturday night for her return to work Monday. Or shorten vacay to return early for test & quarantine. Ugh.  Last I looked charge for test was $200ish per person.
> I wonder if the US will still require neg test to enter?  This will add a prox $800 to trip. .



Because there is still a slight chance you could catch covid with the vaccine (just not likely to actually get sick).  And with the variants they are being cautious.   Of course just one test won’t be 100%, but every thing in combination drops the risk drastically.   

And they aren’t talking about a 2 week quarantine, just a few days to get results.  Most likely 2-3 days.   If they do testing right at the airport and have that even for under 12 that makes our trip doable.   We would be back a couple days before we need to be back at work and school anyways.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Maybe all of this will take place until Canada develops its Vaccine Certificate? If they plan on lifting the borders very soon, maybe they are still working on their ArriveCAN app.


----------



## wdwmom3

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> Maybe all of this will take place until Canada develops its Vaccine Certificate? If they plan on lifting the borders very soon, maybe they are still working on their ArriveCAN app.



They may also do this as a way to slowly open up especially for things like people coming to visit family etc.  Or going to the US  to see family.   It’s a lot easier to work in a
quarantine of 2-3 days while you wait for test results then 2 weeks.


----------



## Sue M

wdwmom3 said:


> Because there is still a slight chance you could catch covid with the vaccine (just not likely to actually get sick).  And with the variants they are being cautious.   Of course just one test won’t be 100%, but every thing in combination drops the risk drastically.
> 
> And they aren’t talking about a 2 week quarantine, just a few days to get results.  Most likely 2-3 days.   If they do testing right at the airport and have that even for under 12 that makes our trip doable.   We would be back a couple days before we need to be back at work and school anyways.


That would be good if they did test right at airport.  I wonder how long to get results. May still have to shorten trip to allow time to get results If WDW allows. I’m remembering they changed rules that you can’t shorten dates anymore unless all new dates are available and may not get same rate ugh. Guess that’s another piece of info we need. My head hurts!
 Have you read anything about cost?  Or if we’re still going to have to provide neg Covid test to enter US?  
I always have the option of driving across border and pick up flight at Seatac. Wonder if rules will be different driving across?  So much to consider!


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

I am also curious about the testing upon return.  Halifax just started testing people at the airport this week  Well, they are take-home tests (or you can get someone to do it for you at the airport). I believe these are free.

Would you need to take a test at MCO before boarding your flight into Canada? Or take a test at the first Canadian airport you land at?


----------



## wdwmom3

Sue M said:


> That would be good if they did test right at airport.  I wonder how long to get results. May still have to shorten trip to allow time to get results If WDW allows. I’m remembering they changed rules that you can’t shorten dates anymore unless all new dates are available and may not get same rate ugh. Guess that’s another piece of info we need. My head hurts!
> Have you read anything about cost?  Or if we’re still going to have to provide neg Covid test to enter US?
> I always have the option of driving across border and pick up flight at Seatac. Wonder if rules will be different driving across?  So much to consider!



They have had testing at Pearson for a while now.   I have no idea about cost though.  I thought the US didn’t require a test for vaccinated people.   But o don’t remember where I saw that, so I don’t know how reliable that is.


----------



## pigletto

To me , it’s sounds like it could be a great first step. Gradually and safely open things up while we continue to increase vaccination rates and watch variants. This is all I hoped for … a road map forward. We’re getting one . 
I’ve chosen January for my trip to give things a good while to play out . The reality is that we could get to winter and a new out of control variant could slam things shut again. This is our reality now and I think we will have to be ready to pivot for years .


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

This is what the people wanted and needed. Clear guidance on a plan. Not a "we will wait and see".


----------



## ellbell

Sue M said:


> I don’t know what the point is of returning travellers to still get a Covid test if fully vaccinated?  And quarantine at home until results are in. Guess that will still nix Aug trip. Daughter gets 2 weeks, and we are booked to return Saturday night for her return to work Monday. Or shorten vacay to return early for test & quarantine. Ugh.  Last I looked charge for test was $200ish per person.
> I wonder if the US will still require neg test to enter?  This will add a prox $800 to trip. .


From the article I read it said the test would be upon arriving meaning it is the one done at the airport right now that you take before going to hotel quarantine, not the one you take before boarding a plane.  Those generally come back fairly quick and are free


----------



## Sue M

ellbell said:


> From the article I read it said the test would be upon arriving meaning it is the one done at the airport right now that you take before going to hotel quarantine, not the one you take before boarding a plane.  Those generally come back fairly quick and are free


thanks!


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Yes I think they will be the rapid tests at the airports since they are cheaper. And this way they can still catch some cases upon arrival (1-3 days).


----------



## Sue M

wdwmom3 said:


> They have had testing at Pearson for a while now.   I have no idea about cost though.  I thought the US didn’t require a test for vaccinated people.   But o don’t remember where I saw that, so I don’t know how reliable that is.


Thanks!  I read about US Covid test on my airline web site when I booked my flight from YVR to MCO. Then someone posted here about a form you have to submit to US about your vaccine status and neg test result.


----------



## KNovacovschi

So happy to hear this, more good news pointing to my DH being able to come with me in September  Just need the 14 day quarantine removed and he will be able to come. I would prefer my first trip back not to be a solo trip even though I love solo trips.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/polit...ed)&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=facebook


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Someone made a comment on the story on CBC.ca that JT is only instituting this NOW because he didn't want to have to stay at one of the govt quarantine hotels upon his return from the EU lol


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

KNovacovschi said:


> So happy to hear this, more good news pointing to my DH being able to come with me in September  Just *need the 14 day quarantine removed *and he will be able to come. I would prefer my first trip back not to be a solo trip even though I love solo trips.



It will be.  You would just need to take a test at the airport and quarantine until you got the results (1-3 days).


----------



## mshanson3121

Now we just need to hear when they're going to open the land border...


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

mshanson3121 said:


> Now we just need to hear when they're going to open the land border...



Perhaps they will announce that as well


----------



## Sue M

mshanson3121 said:


> Now we just need to hear when they're going to open the land border...


Yes!  I may drive across border to get flight if it means I don’t have to spend $400 on Covid test for daughter & me to fly to US. It’s only a 3 hr drive to SeaTac for me. I could even do a hotel park n fly cheaper!


----------



## mshanson3121

Sue M said:


> Yes!  I may drive across border to get flight if it means I don’t have to spend $400 on Covid test for daughter & me to fly to US. It’s only a 3 hr drive to SeaTac for me. I could even do a hotel park n fly cheaper!



Yes. Being in Atlantic Canada, the times we've flown, we've always driven to the US (either 4-6 hours to the airport) because it was so much cheaper. For that matter, it is actually significantly cheaper for us to drive to Boston and fly from there to Edmonton, than it is for us to fly out of our own province. Which is pretty sad really. Especially considering both flights are Air Canada.


----------



## nightwing12

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> Someone made a comment on the story on CBC.ca that JT is only instituting this NOW because he didn't want to have to stay at one of the govt quarantine hotels upon his return from the EU lol


except that he hasn't had his 2nd dose (and isn't eligible for it until mid July as he had AZ and the wait is 12 weeks). So he will be quarantining


----------



## ellbell

nightwing12 said:


> except that he hasn't had his 2nd dose (and isn't eligible for it until mid July as he had AZ and the wait is 12 weeks). So he will be quarantining


Yep in his non government approved "special" hotel


----------



## momof2gr8kids

I'm sure JT would qualify under essential workers and could get the exemption from quarantine anyways.

Seriously,  he is the PM, like him or hate him there are security protocols in place that yeah, would have him not staying in a hotel with everyone else.  Not sure why everyone up in arms about it.  Of course there will be different rules in place for him.


----------



## TommyJK

So watching the Federal Covid-19 update, the only changes at the moment are that they are removing the requirement for quarantine hotel for those who are returning to Canada and are fully vaccinated.  You still need to get a test when you arrive but can quarantine at home until the negative test result


----------



## bcwife76

momof2gr8kids said:


> I'm sure JT would qualify under essential workers and could get the exemption from quarantine anyways.
> 
> Seriously,  he is the PM, like him or hate him there are security protocols in place that yeah, would have him not staying in a hotel with everyone else.  Not sure why everyone up in arms about it.  Of course there will be different rules in place for him.


There is no way they would put him with the general public. I know I joked the other day about not wanting to put him with the riff raff but honestly it would be a HUGE security risk to have him in a hotel with the general public.


----------



## Jrb1979

TommyJK said:


> So watching the Federal Covid-19 update, the only changes at the moment are that they are removing the requirement for quarantine hotel for those who are returning to Canada and are fully vaccinated.  You still need to get a test when you arrive but can quarantine at home until the negative test result


They also did say that the first phase would be that fully vaccinated Canadians would be able to travel without the need for quarantine. It wouldn't be open for tourists til later on.


----------



## TommyJK

Jrb1979 said:


> They also did say that the first phase would be that fully vaccinated Canadians would be able to travel without the need for quarantine. It wouldn't be open for tourists til later on.



That's not entirely true.  They stated that this first phase (which they said should start early next month but didn't give a firm date), you still need to get PCR test before arrival, then still have to have test when you land and you still need to quarantine at home until you get the negative arrival test result.

Just essentially no more quarantine hotel for fully vaccinated people.

Also no mention of any land border changes.


----------



## Pumpkin1172

momof2gr8kids said:


> I'm sure JT would qualify under essential workers and could get the exemption from quarantine anyways.
> 
> Seriously, he is the PM, like him or hate him there are security protocols in place that yeah, would have him not staying in a hotel with everyone else. Not sure why everyone up in arms about it. Of course there will be different rules in place for him.


Of course he would need to quarantine elsewhere for security reasons once he returned to Canada.  

But my question is...when he is telling Canadians that " now is not the time to be travelling" and yet deems it safe enough for him to go to G7 " meetings" and be wined and dined is kind of a slap in the face for those of us who are wanting to travel, but instead are penalized with having to do a hotel quarantine upon returning home.  It is hypocrisy at it's finest and a prime example of " do as I say, not as I do"


----------



## ellbell

momof2gr8kids said:


> I'm sure JT would qualify under essential workers and could get the exemption from quarantine anyways.
> 
> Seriously,  he is the PM, like him or hate him there are security protocols in place that yeah, would have him not staying in a hotel with everyone else.  Not sure why everyone up in arms about it.  Of course there will be different rules in place for him.


This is true but the G7 summit was done virtually last year and if he couldn't safely follow the rules that he implemented he should have decided to attend th8s year virtually.

But enough of that I'm really happy that we are getting back some of our freedoms.  I won't be fully vaccinated until the end of July (2 weeks ofter second shot) but I'm very much looking forward to taking advantage of the decent exchange rate and going shopping in buffalo.


----------



## Sue M

Under the envisioned changes, returning travellers would be required to present a negative COVID-19 screening test taken prior to their return trip and also submit to a COVID-19 test upon arrival back in Canada.
Quote from Globe & Mail.
so it looks like we’ll still have to do a Covid test somewhere in Florida 3 days before returning home plus another on return. To me this is disappointing.  Does anyone know where to get a test near WDW?  I heard the one by MK is closed.


----------



## TommyJK

https://globalnews.ca/news/7934298/covid-19-hotel-quarantine-canada/
“The first phase we’re considering now is aimed at allowing fully vaccinated individuals who are authorized to enter the country to be able to cross the border without having to stay in a government authorized accommodation,”

"Fully vaccinated individuals still need a screening test before departure as well as a covid test upon arrival, they will have to be in quarantine at home until they get a negative result to their test. "


----------



## Jrb1979

TommyJK said:


> https://globalnews.ca/news/7934298/covid-19-hotel-quarantine-canada/
> “The first phase we’re considering now is aimed at allowing fully vaccinated individuals who are authorized to enter the country to be able to cross the border without having to stay in a government authorized accommodation,”
> 
> "Fully vaccinated individuals still need a screening test before departure as well as a covid test upon arrival, they will have to be in quarantine at home until they get a negative result to their test. "


I am fine with that for a first step. From the sounds of it, it will be awhile longer before tourists will be allowed in.


----------



## TommyJK

Jrb1979 said:


> I am fine with that for a first step. From the sounds of it, it will be awhile longer before tourists will be allowed in.



Ya.  It's a start.  I'm sure things will futher ease as the summer goes on.


----------



## 2Lunds

The quarantine adjustments are great - but the testing requirements are still crazy expensive.  We have limited private testing in MB, they're about $500 each.  This adds $1000 for the two of us on the way down, and I presume a similar cost for the private tests on the way home too.  We've booked, but are still ready to pull the plug if these aren't lifted, or better options for private testing come to MB.  Shoppers in BC/AB/ON offers tests for about $200


----------



## Jrb1979

TommyJK said:


> Ya.  It's a start.  I'm sure things will futher ease as the summer goes on.


It's why I haven't booked anything. It's not worth the hassle to cancel plans.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

2Lunds said:


> The quarantine adjustments are great - but the testing requirements are still crazy expensive.  We have limited private testing in MB, they're about $500 each.  This adds $1000 for the two of us on the way down, and I presume a similar cost for the private tests on the way home too.  We've booked, but are still ready to pull the plug if these aren't lifted, or better options for private testing come to MB.  Shoppers in BC/AB/ON offers tests for about $200



Why do you need to test going down? Does the US have mandatory testing?


----------



## Jrb1979

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> Why do you need to test going down? Does the US have mandatory testing?


Yeah they haven't dropped that yet for international travel into the US. I have a feeling that will be in place on both sides for awhile.


----------



## 2Lunds

Jrb1979 said:


> Yeah they haven't dropped that yet for international travel into the US. I have a feeling that will be in place on both sides for awhile.


^^ this.  I booked with Delta and thankfully they're being pretty flexible with changes/cancellations, so I felt ok with booking to secure our seats.  Adding another $1500-$2000 onto the trip cost for testing just isn't realistic.


----------



## Jrb1979

2Lunds said:


> ^^ this.  I booked with Delta and thankfully they're being pretty flexible with changes/cancellations, so I felt ok with booking to secure our seats.  Adding another $1500-$2000 onto the trip cost for testing just isn't realistic.


IMO people are better off just vacationing in Canada for this year.


----------



## 2Lunds

Jrb1979 said:


> IMO people are better off just vacationing in Canada for this year.


You're probably right.  In our case we have ecredits with Delta we're trying to use before they expire, and Delta doesn't fly within Canada so...


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Oh, well this whole announcement still sucks then LOL  We are still not "free" to travel with 2 doses. 

This doesn't make me want to buy any WDW Christmas Party tickets in August at this point.

This was just shut up everyone who was nagging them.

*Back to being underwhelmed* LOL


----------



## Jrb1979

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> Oh, well this whole announcement still sucks then LOL  We are still not "free" to travel with 2 doses.
> 
> This doesn't make me want to buy any WDW Christmas Party tickets in August at this point.
> 
> This was just shut up everyone who was nagging them.
> 
> *Back to being underwhelmed* LOL


I have a feeling it will be like this for awhile. Mainly due to other countries and not us. They did say they are still concerned about variants coming in from other countries when they do open.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Jrb1979 said:


> IMO people are better off just vacationing in Canada for this year.



I can't afford that LOL  How sad is that? I already have 75% of the Disney paid for free through rewards programs.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

Sue M said:


> I don’t know what the point is of returning travellers to still get a Covid test if fully vaccinated?  And quarantine at home until results are in. Guess that will still nix Aug trip. Daughter gets 2 weeks, and we are booked to return Saturday night for her return to work Monday. Or shorten vacay to return early for test & quarantine. Ugh.  Last I looked charge for test was $200ish per person.
> I wonder if the US will still require neg test to enter?  This will add a prox $800 to trip. .


I know a couple of people that got the test on arrival at Pearson and they both got results less than 24 hrs. Hopefully that’s the case.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

Looks like another announcement coming Friday (perhaps) regarding Canada /USA border.

https://apple.news/AoQ_VhXeqTR-nl12tabhgjg


----------



## accm

Jrb1979 said:


> I have a feeling it will be like this for awhile. Mainly due to other countries and not us. They did say they are still concerned about variants coming in from other countries when they do open.


At a certain point though, we need to trust the science and trust that the vaccine is doing its job.


----------



## Jrb1979

accm said:


> At a certain point though, we need to trust the science and trust that the vaccine is doing its job.


Agreed but we aren't there yet.


----------



## bcwife76

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> Looks like another announcement coming Friday (perhaps) regarding Canada /USA border.
> 
> https://apple.news/AoQ_VhXeqTR-nl12tabhgjg


Won't let me open it, what does it say? Was this article published before the announcement this morning? If so then it might be moot because Tam said they don't want to open to tourists until we are 75% FULLY vaccinated now.


----------



## newdeal

I personally believe that this leak and the 7 million Moderna vaccines coming in June (for the first time from the USA rather than Europe) are completely linked.  USA wants to open border, Canada wants more vaccines, the feds negotiate a win-win.  That said I might be biased because I made the comment not long ago that this was likely to happen but an admin deleted it.

Edit:  Looks like I could be way off base, I just read this will apply to Canadians returning home but will not apply to Americans who want to be tourists in Canada


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

bcwife76 said:


> Won't let me open it, what does it say? Was this article published before the announcement this morning? If so then it might be moot because Tam said they don't want to open to tourists until we are 75% FULLY vaccinated now.


From the article (it was in the Star yesterday)
An announcement could come as soon as Friday on how fully vaccinated people can more easily travel between Canada and the U.S as the first step in a plan to reopen the border.


----------



## newdeal

Jrb1979 said:


> Yeah they haven't dropped that yet for international travel into the US. I have a feeling that will be in place on both sides for awhile.



The USA I am sure will drop that very soon.  For Canada we will have to see but I would think that it won't take too long before they dont require a mandatory test either for people who have both doses.  I would assume it will greatly depend on the number of fully vaxxed travelers who test positive on return


----------



## Sue M

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> Oh, well this whole announcement still sucks then LOL  We are still not "free" to travel with 2 doses.
> 
> This doesn't make me want to buy any WDW Christmas Party tickets in August at this point.
> 
> This was just shut up everyone who was nagging them.
> 
> *Back to being underwhelmed* LOL


Yes, a bit of an underwhelming announcement. Still have to test on the way down and 2 tests coming home  first 3 days before flight and then another on return. This for fully vaccinated people . The only thing they changed is quarantine.

Has anyone done the Covid test in Florida?  Where and how much does it cost?


----------



## jamescanuck2001

Jrb1979 said:


> Agreed but we aren't there yet.



Not sure what you mean.  I've been trusting the science from the beginning.


----------



## 2Lunds

FYI:  I'm going to start a new thread for these air discussions.  I feel like we're clogging this one up, and for anyone looking for land border chat, they'll probably be frustrated.


----------



## Jrb1979

jamescanuck2001 said:


> Not sure what you mean.  I've been trusting the science from the beginning.


Meaning we aren't there in terms of vaccinated people.


----------



## ellbell

Jrb1979 said:


> Meaning we aren't there in terms of vaccinated people.


But if someone is fully vaccinated why do they have to test?  Are we not trusting the vaccines to do their job?


----------



## bababear_50

Heads UP!!!!
Webmaster Doc has posted new guidelines and rules for Covid related discussions.
Please take a few minutes to read.
Top Post of the Canadian Boards (Pinned)
*DISboards COVID-19 discussion policy - effective 06/06/2021
https://www.disboards.com/threads/disboards-covid-19-discussion-policy-effective-06-06-2021.3840666/*


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## ilovetotravel1977

They mean business on the policies. I got a citation last month and had lost posting privileges for a month. You have been warned!


----------



## tlcdoula

The change to quarantine has me thinking about heading to Disneyland for a trip in November.   It’s so hard to plan but is great to start thinking about it now.  We have park hopper Canadian resident tickets and flight credits from last year to use.  

Wonder how the tickets will work if park hopping is not possible.


----------



## momof2gr8kids

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> They mean business on the policies. I got a citation last month and had lost posting privileges for a month. You have been warned!


I'd just change to momof2gr8kids! And come on here incognito if it happened to me.  No one would be the wiser.


----------



## Going to WDW

Just glad to see that travel is on the horizon again --- we love the area we live in but we're sort of looking for something else --- especially when it's cold.  Travel is a huge thing for us so this is a positive step --- everything will be incremental.   We don't have plans until March 2022 but progress is a good thing.  (If testing avoids a 14 day quarantine I'm still okay with that too.)


----------



## Starwind

2Lunds said:


> You're probably right.  In our case we have ecredits with Delta we're trying to use before they expire, and Delta doesn't fly within Canada so...



Will Delta let ou use the credits on flights by their partner airline, Westjet ??


----------



## bcwife76

Starwind said:


> Will Delta let ou use the credits on flights by their partner airline, Westjet ??


I don't think so. I have WJ credits and can't use them to book a flight with Delta.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Okay so for the test in Orlando before going home...does that still need to be a PCR test done 72 hours prior to getting the plane home?


----------



## Jrb1979

ellbell said:


> Like I said then.  Might as well have testing forever. Because everything you mention is not going to change.


It will when more people around the world are vaccinated


----------



## pangyal

Starwind said:


> Will Delta let ou use the credits on flights by their partner airline, Westjet ??


You absolutely can. You just need to make sure you book it through the Delta website. It will be marketed by Delta and flown by Westjet so you can use the e-credits when completing payment.


----------



## ellbell

Jrb1979 said:


> You don't have to quarantine if you're vaccinated. This is the first phase and the border still really isn't open as non Canadians can't enter  I'm sure eventually it will change. They did say once 75% are fully vaccinated the border will be fully open.


You do.  You have to have a quarantine plan and quarantine at home until the results of your second test come in.


----------



## Jrb1979

ellbell said:


> You do.  You have to have a quarantine plan and quarantine at home until the results of your second test come in.


That would a couple of days at most. Honestly most of this is cause they still don't want people traveling yet. Most of the Country isn't fully opened yet so it makes no sense to open the border til before the country opens.


----------



## WebmasterKathy

*IMPORTANT:  Policy on COVID discussions*

The global COVID pandemic created unprecedented restrictions, disruptions and changes to our travel, work, shopping, schooling, social interactions and so many other aspects of our lives since the beginning of 2020. We’ve all been affected, and we have been inundated with news, information, mis-information, frustrations and opinions. We’ve heard them, we’ve shared them, we’ve argued about them.

The discussions, debates and arguments about the virus, distancing and masking policies, various politicians’ statements and actions have been overwhelming and divisive. Many threads on the DISboards have been derailed or devolved into arguments due to this topic. We understand the passion, but feel that we’ve let the discussions run their course. We are sure there are better places on the WWW to learn about and debate scientific, medical and political issues. The mission of the DISboards is to be a great travel resource and a friendly community.

Now that travel is opening up again, it’s time to refocus on that mission!

From this point on, we will welcome information on COVID policies RELATED TO TRAVEL. Things like the vaccination policies issued by venues or destinations, the cleaning or distancing procedures in use, practical tips for travelers or things they might need to know that are different from location to location are all valid topics. Any official policies issued by Disney, other travel destinations, cruise lines, airlines, etc. regarding requirements for visiting parks or cruising can be shared. This information needs to be on-topic for the specific forum and thread where posted.

We will NOT welcome debate or opinion about medical, scientific, or political aspects of the pandemic. There are a few often repeated trigger items that won’t be allowed: No statistics about infection rates, no ranting about individual rights, no “face-diaper” comments, no debate about whether vaccinations or masking are effective, no discussions about which governor or politician or news personality did or said what.

*In summary: COVID related discussion should be limited to actual policy and practical application, and NOT veer into opinion or debate.*

We understand that you may be passionate in your opinions on this topic and want to discuss or debate them, and appreciate your understanding that there are more appropriate places than the DISboards to do that.

Thank you,
DISboards Administrators


----------



## Sue M

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> Okay so for the test in Orlando before going home...does that still need to be a PCR test done 72 hours prior to getting the plane home?


I think so.


----------



## Sue M

Does anyone know where a testing site is near WDW?


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## HappilyEverAfter80

Ugh... now that I had a chance to review the new upcoming policy more closely I am a bit disappointed too. I agree with testing fully vaccinated Canadians on arrival but also a pre-arrival test?  I was hoping for some adaptation of what the advisory committee recommended a couple of weeks back but I guess not so fast 
I agree with whoever said above that Canada still does not want us to travel for leisure this summer. It’s not as bad as it was before, the quarantine was a huge deal breaker but several tests can still add up quick especially for a bigger family. Step forward yes, but still very very restrictive.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m happy there is some improvement. I am simply hoping the next steps follow soon and that guidance will be released on the Canada /US border  
Back in March I read somewhere that no matter how we slice it up we’ll be about 5-6 months behind US in reopening and it’s proving to be true.  Sigh... deep breath.... patience... lol
Just keep swimming I guess.
Have a great night everyone


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

Sue M said:


> Does anyone know where a testing site is near WDW?


Do we know what kind of pre-arrival test it’s supposed to be? I don’t know if they have testing sites anymore there but our friends who live in FL had to test prior to their flight to Hawaii and just pulled up to Walgreens and did their tests in drive-thru...


----------



## Starwind

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> Do we know what kind of pre-arrival test it’s supposed to be? I don’t know if they have testing sites anymore there but our friends who live in FL had to test prior to their flight to Hawaii and just pulled up to Walgreens and did their tests in drive-thru...



The official Government of Canada information on "COVID-19: Travel, testing, quarantine and borders" is here: https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid which includes information on the type of test required (there is a list of acceptable test types), timeframe, etc.


----------



## nightwing12

just booked a southwest flight out of buffalo for december, hopefully all/most of this will be in the rearview by then! I'm interested to see if the governments announcement will include info about if children under 12 who cannot be vaccinated will still be required to quarantine or if they will be exempt if their adult(12+) family members are vaccinated.


----------



## 2Lunds

nightwing12 said:


> just booked a southwest flight out of buffalo for december, hopefully all/most of this will be in the rearview by then! I'm interested to see if the governments announcement will include info about if children under 12 who cannot be vaccinated will still be required to quarantine or if they will be exempt if their adult(12+) family members are vaccinated.


FYI I started an air travel thread here yesterday - you may want to follow there as well!


----------



## Pumpkin1172

bcwife76 said:


> If so then it might be moot because Tam said they don't want to open to tourists until we are 75% FULLY vaccinated now.


THIS!!!!!  This just frustrates the ever living heck out of me.  They keep moving the goal posts!!!  STOP GOING BACK ON YOUR WORD AND CHANGING THE GOAL POSTS!!!! 

I see that Canadians as a whole are going to get our vaccines faster (now) and at a higher rate than many other countries (G7 included) BUT to make a goal post like that is feels like it is almost not achievable.  It feels like it's bribery/coercion/entrapment at this point to get people to get their vaccination.  They and the media talk and spin words about variants to put the fear of the virus into people to get the vaccination.  Yes...it's a virus, and viruses mutate.  We are going to be combating this for YEARS!!!  At this point it seems like they are wanting to keep us in the ever locked bubble forever.  With them continually moving the goal posts, the people are starting to get restless.  At what point do we get to move forward?  Especially when we see other countries with definite plans for reopening, and moving forard....Where is the plan for Canadians?


----------



## Jrb1979

Pumpkin1172 said:


> THIS!!!!!  This just frustrates the ever living heck out of me.  They keep moving the goal posts!!!  STOP GOING BACK ON YOUR WORD AND CHANGING THE GOAL POSTS!!!!
> 
> I see that Canadians as a whole are going to get our vaccines faster (now) and at a higher rate than many other countries (G7 included) BUT to make a goal post like that is feels like it is almost not achievable.  It feels like it's bribery/coercion/entrapment at this point to get people to get their vaccination.  They and the media talk and spin words about variants to put the fear of the virus into people to get the vaccination.  Yes...it's a virus, and viruses mutate.  We are going to be combating this for YEARS!!!  At this point it seems like they are wanting to keep us in the ever locked bubble forever.  With them continually moving the goal posts, the people are starting to get restless.  At what point do we get to move forward?  Especially when we see other countries with definite plans for reopening, and moving forard....Where is the plan for Canadians?


I think once the G7 meeting is over there will be a plan. They did say they wanted to work together with other countries on a vaccine passport.


----------



## 2Lunds

Jrb1979 said:


> I think once the G7 meeting is over there will be a plan. They did say they wanted to work together with other countries on a vaccine passport.


----------



## Jrb1979

2Lunds said:


>


The only part where I see a problem is with our neighbors who don't want to use a vaccine passport.


----------



## Pumpkin1172

.


----------



## Blue Belle Ballerina

We have a mid-August trip planned....supposed to drive across the border and fly from there.  I'm the only one in my household fully vaccinated....my husband and one child will have one dose and the other is under 12.  I had been feeling so optimistic but today I'm just feeling so unsure we'll get across the border.  I work in healthcare and haven't had time off in over a year and a half...these Disney trip plans are the only thing that's been keeping me from completely burning out....at least I had something to look forward to.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Pumpkin1172 said:


> My eyeballs just twitch now when I hear JT or Tam talk on the news.  I can't stand listening to either of them anymore



.


----------



## Mikey15

Pumpkin1172 said:


> THIS!!!!! This just frustrates the ever living heck out of me. They keep moving the goal posts!!! STOP GOING BACK ON YOUR WORD AND CHANGING THE GOAL POSTS!!!!



The outline in April for 75/20 partial reopening and 75/75 full reopening was always about guiding domestic health policy. They never said anything about letting international tourists in at 75/20. Nothing's moved, shifted, changed.



Pumpkin1172 said:


> Other party memebers for MONTHS have been asking for a reopening plan. They couldn't/wouldn't even make a plan for the vaccine roll out and left it up to the provinces to figure out what worked best.



And months ago we didn't know how well the vaccines would reduce transmission (rather than symptoms/severity/death). We didn't know if the increased risk of something like Delta would change when it would be safe to reopen (frankly, we're not out of the woods yet on Delta & we won't know until we try the partial reopening that is starting).
Confederation is a tricky beast but I can sum it up by saying the feds cannot unilaterally overrule provincial rollout plans.



Pumpkin1172 said:


> My eyeballs just twitch now when I hear JT or Tam talk on the news. I can't stand listening to either of them anymore



I can see this is all upsetting you, just in the last page alone. There's been a lot of good news in the last couple days alone. Quarantine exemption for fully vaccinated Canadians, more doses coming in June, enough vaccine shipments we can potentially have everyone who wants it fully vaccinated by end of July. There's a lot of positive things worth celebrating, even if you don't like the people sharing them.


----------



## ottawamom

Just a friendly reminder that there are new posting guidelines (see top of the stickies on the main Canadian threads). This discussion is being watched. I don't want to lose any of my fellow peeps here on Canadian DIS.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

I can totally understand why people are frustrated. 
Edited - I read the new guidelines  in the sticky notes and I’m confused if I can say anything about the US or EU
So I deleted the rest of my comment.
Just want to say I guess, I don’t blame people for having enough of this whole thing, no clear guidelines for those vaccinated.


----------



## Donald - my hero

momof2gr8kids said:


> I'd just change to momof2gr8kids! And come on here incognito if it happened to me.  No one would be the wiser.


*Perhaps not a good idea to post something that will set the spidey-senses of a moderator off! I know someone who did churn thru about 5 screennames 

*


----------



## Donald - my hero

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> I can totally understand why people are frustrated.
> Edited - I read the new guidelines  in the sticky notes and I’m confused if I can say anything about the US or EU
> So I deleted the rest of my comment.
> Just want to say I guess, I don’t blame people for having enough of this whole thing, no clear guidelines for those vaccinated.


*My read thru of the new guidelines (ok several reads!) makes me think they mean ANY political discussion, so even our own country & provincial politics could be deemed a violation 
SO in my mind it's ok to say the federal government has said X regarding the border opening and what will be required to get there BUT if we then discuss how we feel about that or if we agree or disagree about that we've crossed the line. *


----------



## Pumpkin1172

Mikey15 said:


> I can see this is all upsetting you, just in the last page alone.


Just before you posted this....I thought to myself....Good LORD....you sound like an old miserable cow  .  I'm really not such a miserable person (most of the time) So I'm stepping away now...going to stop and smell the flowers I've  planted in the back yard and enjoy my lilac tree!!!!


----------



## Donald - my hero

Pumpkin1172 said:


> Just before you posted this....I thought to myself....Good LORD....you sound like an old miserable cow  .  I'm really not such a miserable person (most of the time) So I'm stepping away now...going to stop and smell the flowers I've  planted in the back yard and enjoy my lilac tree!!!!


*I've caught myself several times over the last (insert an indiscernible amount of time) sounding like my grandmother ! Everyone is walking around one step from "look at me the wrong way and I will poke your eyes out with a flaming hot poker" !

My 2 favourite gardens smells are hyacinth (if we can keep the bunnies from eating them before they bloom) and lilacs, wish we had a tree!!*


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

Donald - my hero said:


> *My read thru of the new guidelines (ok several reads!) makes me think they mean ANY political discussion, so even our own country & provincial politics could be deemed a violation
> SO in my mind it's ok to say the federal government has said X regarding the border opening and what will be required to get there BUT if we then discuss how we feel about that or if we agree or disagree about that we've crossed the line. *


Yes I was just going to say when others opened up in comparison but after reading the guidelines not sure if I can name other countries anymore, best to delete it.
Honestly moot point in a way. It is what it is here in Canada and unless we move we are stuck. We have the right to be frustrated though , I would say a few months back only some people I talked to were, in general people were ok to keep following the guidelines. Now it seems 99% are fed up with the lack of plan and clarity.


----------



## 2Lunds

Donald - my hero said:


> *I've caught myself several times over the last (insert an indiscernible amount of time) sounding like my grandmother ! Everyone is walking around one step from "look at me the wrong way and I will poke your eyes out with a flaming hot poker" !
> 
> My 2 favourite gardens smells are hyacinth (if we can keep the bunnies from eating them before they bloom) and lilacs, wish we had a tree!!*


Agree, and offer for your consideration: Peony and Lily of the Valley.


----------



## ottawamom

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> Yes I was just going to say when others opened up in comparison but after reading the guidelines not sure if I can name other countries anymore, best to delete it.
> Honestly moot point in a way. It is what it is here in Canada and unless we move we are stuck. We have the right to be frustrated though , I would say a few months back only some people I talked to were, in general people were ok to keep following the guidelines. Now it seems 99% are fed up with the lack of plan and clarity.


I like to think of Covid like a roller coaster I got stuck on in California. We went around the circuit once, then they decided to let us go again, back to the beginning and they didn't know how to get it to stop so off we went on a third round. Finally they stopped us but couldn't back us down and we had to complete the ciruit.

When I got off I had a slight concussion but wasn't really the worse for wear. (this was a 100 year old roller coaster at a beach, very bumpy). It is what it is and we will all come through to the other side and get off our roller coaster we call Covid.


----------



## momof2gr8kids

https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/canad...-week-jeopardizing-border-reopening-1.5464838
Throwing gas on the fire...


----------



## momof2gr8kids

Donald - my hero said:


> *Perhaps not a good idea to post something that will set the spidey-senses of a moderator off! I know someone who did churn thru about 5 screennames
> 
> View attachment 581180*


That was obviously a joke...I'm pretty sure just by adding an exclamation mark at the end everyone would know it was me. Lol.


----------



## Mikey15

Pumpkin1172 said:


> Just before you posted this....I thought to myself....Good LORD....you sound like an old miserable cow  .  I'm really not such a miserable person (most of the time) So I'm stepping away now...going to stop and smell the flowers I've  planted in the back yard and enjoy my lilac tree!!!!



Not going to lie, when I saw you’re the “Eeyore” in your family signature I
We’ve all got frustrations to vent somewhere even if I don’t think people like it done here!

I have to laugh or I’d cry but I was looking forward to this land border announcement and while the early July timing is about where I figured, ironically it doesn’t help my family at all. My parents are fully vaccinated but not Canadian so they still can’t cross to visit. My wife and I still can’t go south because we’re only two weeks past our 1st shot. Weeks away from 2nd. It’s only an extra few weeks but while aggregate news is good I do totally understand a little personal rain cloud 🌧


----------



## NewYKRunner

Wow, just under 200,000 doses in Ontario alone today, 134k of those are second doses.  Nice work


----------



## NewYKRunner

Pumpkin1172 said:


> THIS!!!!!  This just frustrates the ever living heck out of me.  They keep moving the goal posts!!!  STOP GOING BACK ON YOUR WORD AND CHANGING THE GOAL POSTS!!!!



Ugh, when did Dr. Tam say that?  Makes sense why our new plan states similar for us to fully reopen:

https://www.gov.nt.ca/covid-19/en/emerging-wisely-2021


----------



## Sue M

Starwind said:


> The official Government of Canada information on "COVID-19: Travel, testing, quarantine and borders" is here: https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid which includes information on the type of test required (there is a list of acceptable test types), timeframe, etc.


I just noticed the alert yesterday that said probably in July fully vax people won’t need test, yay!


----------



## Sue M

Blue Belle Ballerina said:


> We have a mid-August trip planned....supposed to drive across the border and fly from there.  I'm the only one in my household fully vaccinated....my husband and one child will have one dose and the other is under 12.  I had been feeling so optimistic but today I'm just feeling so unsure we'll get across the border.  I work in healthcare and haven't had time off in over a year and a half...these Disney trip plans are the only thing that's been keeping me from completely burning out....at least I had something to look forward to.


We will be fully vaccinated by Tuesday!  Yay. Our trip is 1st two weeks of Aug. I booked flights yesterday, because things are looking up, now that we won’t have to Quarantine. Daughter has to go back to work and can’t quarantine 2 weeks!  
but in same boat as you. I booked flights, but would rather drive acros, only 3 hrs to Seattle. I’m confused about rules driving across. But flights sure are cheaper, so far.  I’m going to wait & see what info comes out. Clear as mud right now. I can change flights, but I’m afraid by the time we have solid info, they’ll go up.


----------



## 2Lunds

Sue M said:


> I just noticed the alert yesterday that said probably in July fully vax people won’t need test, yay!


Where did you see that alert?


----------



## Sue M

2Lunds said:


> Where did you see that alert?


It was on the link Starwind posted. Right on top in yellow


----------



## Sue M

Exemptions for fully vaccinated travellers who are eligible to enter Canada are expected in early July. Current travel restrictions still apply.

this is what is on our Government website. So I think this may mean we won’t have to get Covid test?


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## Starwind

Sue M said:


> Exemptions for fully vaccinated travellers who are eligible to enter Canada are expected in early July. Current travel restrictions still apply.
> 
> this is what is on our Government website. So I think this may mean we won’t have to get Covid test?



No that is not what it means.

The public statements from government about the relaxation of restrictions in July for returning travellers who are fully vaccinated has been that they still need to be tested before arrival and after arrival.  The relaxation is that they do not have to do the upto 3 days hotel quarantine, insteade they have to self isolate while waiting for the arrival test result and can then onward travel if the test is negative.  They will also be able to skip the 14 day quarantine requirement [if the arrival test is negative].

See https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/government-travel-restrictions-border-1.6061398 :

"_However, Ottawa announced on Wednesday that all fully vaccinated travellers currently allowed to enter Canada will soon be able to skip the 14-day quarantine requirement, including the mandated hotel stay. Instead, they'll have to show proof of a negative pre-departure COVID-19 test, take another test upon arrival, and self-isolate until that test comes back negative. 

The government has not yet set a date for the rule change but says it "hopes" to implement it by early July._ "


----------



## 2Lunds

Sue M said:


> Exemptions for fully vaccinated travellers who are eligible to enter Canada are expected in early July. Current travel restrictions still apply.
> 
> this is what is on our Government website. So I think this may mean we won’t have to get Covid test?


I watched the announcement.  The July "loosening" is only doing away with the hotel quarantine.  As it stands now we'll still need a negative test going down, a negative test before coming back, another test upon arrival, and a quarantine at home until those results come back (estimated at 3 days). Eta: I see the previous poster already addressed this, sorry, I'm on mobile.


----------



## Starwind

2Lunds said:


> I watched the announcement.  The July "loosening" is only doing away with the hotel quarantine.  As it stands now we'll still need a negative test going down, a negative test before coming back, another test upon arrival, and a quarantine at home until those results come back (estimated at 3 days). Eta: I see the previous poster already addressed this, sorry, I'm on mobile.



You added the extra important detail about the test needed going down, too. I haven't seen anything that says the US government will be lifting that requirement yet.


----------



## bcwife76

Starwind said:


> You added the extra important detail about the test needed going down, too. I haven't seen anything that says the US government will be lifting that requirement yet.


Nope, testing to enter the US by air is supposed to be in place until Dec 31, unless the CDC rescinds it.


----------



## 2Lunds

Starwind said:


> You added the extra important detail about the test needed going down, too. I haven't seen anything that says the US government will be lifting that requirement yet.


I'm willing to bet the US side drops their testing requirements before we do.  If all I needed was a PCR test at MCO airport before coming home, I'd go, but paying for all these tests out of pocket is too much.  Especially in MB where they're about $500 each.


----------



## petunia

bcwife76 said:


> Nope, testing to enter the US by air is supposed to be in place until Dec 31, unless the CDC rescinds it.



Do you know if Canadians drive over and fly out of Buffalo what steps need to be taken?


----------



## Sue M

petunia said:


> Do you know if Canadians drive over and fly out of Buffalo what steps need to be taken?


I’d like to know driving requirements too.


----------



## Sue M

Starwind said:


> No that is not what it means.
> 
> The public statements from government about the relaxation of restrictions in July for returning travellers who are fully vaccinated has been that they still need to be tested before arrival and after arrival.  The relaxation is that they do not have to do the upto 3 days hotel quarantine, insteade they have to self isolate while waiting for the arrival test result and can then onward travel if the test is negative.  They will also be able to skip the 14 day quarantine requirement [if the arrival test is negative].
> 
> See https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/government-travel-restrictions-border-1.6061398 :
> 
> "_However, Ottawa announced on Wednesday that all fully vaccinated travellers currently allowed to enter Canada will soon be able to skip the 14-day quarantine requirement, including the mandated hotel stay. Instead, they'll have to show proof of a negative pre-departure COVID-19 test, take another test upon arrival, and self-isolate until that test comes back negative.
> 
> The government has not yet set a date for the rule change but says it "hopes" to implement it by early July._ "


Oh darn!  Thanks for the clarification. I was hoping it meant  we wouldn’t have to do all those Covid tests If you are fully vaccinated. That’s going to add $$$ to the trip. Plus they closed the testing place by MK. And Urgent Care places are charging $175 USD  maybe I can find a CVS nearby that isn’t a drive thru as we won’t have a car and have to Uber.
with any luck we’ll have better news after G7 meeting.  Maybe just 1 test done at the border. A rapid test!


----------



## bcwife76

petunia said:


> Do you know if Canadians drive over and fly out of Buffalo what steps need to be taken?





Sue M said:


> I’d like to know driving requirements too.


You can't drive over right now. Only US citizens and permanent residents can drive into the US.


----------



## White Cat

Driving back into Canada later this week. It’s interesting planning the test and times for the day we drive over. Keep hearing how bad it is in the Waterloo region. It’s so safe in Florida there’s not much talk about COVID anymore. Life is basically normal here. Going to be strange being in a place that’s shut down and so many people are afraid.


----------



## damo

White Cat said:


> Driving back into Canada later this week. It’s interesting planning the test and times for the day we drive over. Keep hearing how bad it is in the Waterloo region. It’s so safe in Florida there’s not much talk about COVID anymore. Life is basically normal here. Going to be strange being in a place that’s shut down and so many people are afraid.



The positivity rate in Florida is higher than the positivity rate in Ontario.  Just because nobody is talking about it anymore, doesn't make it safer.


----------



## ottawamom

Exactly what @damo said.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

I don’t know the numbers, but I think it certainly depends on the person, some would rather stay in Florida right now even if positivity rate is higher, especially if vaccinated than be very restricted and locked down in Ontario. Our friends with dual citizenship chose to move down to FL a couple of months ago, at least for a few months. Their whole family said their mental health improved, the feel once again they are loving life where in Ontario both the kids and the mom were not doing well psychologically. They are all fully vaccinated, wear masks indoors (most places still required masks indoors in FL) and yes they feel safe. 
Apparently there are a lot of people who left Ontario in the past few months. At the same time there are people that would not feel safe going to FL or elsewhere in the States right now. Nobody is wrong. What works for me and my family may not work for the family next door. Personally if I could live down there for a few months, I would. Some people may disagree.That’s ok.


----------



## OnceUponATime15

Have been watching our PM take questions live from the G7 summit for the past hour… he was asked about the border reopening and the resumption of travel between Canada & the US.  I was disappointed but not surprised to hear him say that we are no where near that happening right now. He stated we have a ways to go before non essential travel for Canadians will resume.  He would not be pinned down to a date or estimated date.. but made sure to mention that our government and the American administration continue to talk and plan toward a full reopening.  No mention of the testing requirements for air travelers being ceased or modified - no one asked those questions.

As always… lots of “political speak/double talk - but little useful information
. Smh.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

Does anyone think that new border guidelines might be announced following the G7 meeting? Especially for driving across?


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

OnceUponATime15 said:


> Have been watching our PM take questions live from the G7 summit for the past hour… he was asked about the border reopening and the resumption of travel between Canada & the US.  I was disappointed but not surprised to hear him say that we are no where near that happening right now. He stated we have a ways to go before non essential travel for Canadians will resume.  He would not be pinned down to a date or estimated date.. but made sure to mention that our government and the American administration continue to talk and plan toward a full reopening.  No mention of the testing requirements for air travelers being ceased or modified - no one asked those questions.
> 
> As always… lots of “political speak/double talk - but little useful information
> . Smh.


ugh… didn’t see your post when I asked the question above… Canada doesn’t want us to travel still… but with the new rules coming for air travel we might go in August anyway if fully vaccinated.


----------



## hdrolfe

I think we need to remember that the relaxing restrictions are still for essential travel, not fun travel. That will come, maybe by fall when more Canadians have two doses.


----------



## Sue M

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> I don’t know the numbers, but I think it certainly depends on the person, some would rather stay in Florida right now even if positivity rate is higher, especially if vaccinated than be very restricted and locked down in Ontario. Our friends with dual citizenship chose to move down to FL a couple of months ago, at least for a few months. Their whole family said their mental health improved, the feel once again they are loving life where in Ontario both the kids and the mom were not doing well psychologically. They are all fully vaccinated, wear masks indoors (most places still required masks indoors in FL) and yes they feel safe.
> Apparently there are a lot of people who left Ontario in the past few months. At the same time there are people that would not feel safe going to FL or elsewhere in the States right now. Nobody is wrong. What works for me and my family may not work for the family next door. Personally if I could live down there for a few months, I would. Some people may disagree.That’s ok.


Being fully vaccinated I’d feel safe in Florida. But I wouldn’t throw caution to the wind either. I will mask inside, and eat outside where possible.


----------



## Sue M

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> ugh… didn’t see your post when I asked the question above… Canada doesn’t want us to travel still… but with the new rules coming for air travel we might go in August anyway if fully vaccinated.


Our flights are booked. If we get any info on driving across I may change my flights to leave out of Seattle.  We’ll be fully vaccinated as of Tuesday!


----------



## ottawamom

Just remember it's two weeks after your jabs before you are considered "fully vaccinated".


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

Sue M said:


> Being fully vaccinated I’d feel safe in Florida. But I wouldn’t throw caution to the wind either. I will mask inside, and eat outside where possible.


Of course. That’s what I’m personally saying, you can certainly be safe in Florida, no less safe then here.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

My family will travel for leisure at the end of august if fully vaccinated. We are not going to wait for another lockdown or seasonal resurgence of covid and wish we went. It can be done safely. Now, it depends on many factors but not ruling it out.
I hope and pray no more lockdowns and they actually reopen fully come fall but nothing would surprise me anymore.


----------



## Sue M

ottawamom said:


> Just remember it's two weeks after your jabs before you are considered "fully vaccinated".


Yup!  Plenty of time before travel dates.


----------



## OnceUponATime15

A little more info..   Still Disappointing 


https://www.theglobeandmail.com/pol...s-he-discussed-border-with-biden-but-no-deal/


----------



## Sue M

OnceUponATime15 said:


> A little more info..   Still Disappointing
> 
> 
> https://www.theglobeandmail.com/pol...s-he-discussed-border-with-biden-but-no-deal/


We are moving so quickly with vaccine roll out now. I think by July most of us that want it will have our 2nd jab.  
My Adult daughter is really looking forward to Aug trip that was postponed from last Aug. and if we can’t travel this Aug, she has to wait another year to get her vacation as that’s when she can take off work. I’m banking on official word that quarantine will be lifted.


----------



## rosieposy

White Cat said:


> Driving back into Canada later this week. It’s interesting planning the test and times for the day we drive over. Keep hearing how bad it is in the Waterloo region. It’s so safe in Florida there’s not much talk about COVID anymore. Life is basically normal here. Going to be strange being in a place that’s shut down and so many people are afraid.


I’m a Canadian Citizen and a US permanent resident. I live in Ohio and I’m fully vaccinated. I’m currently in Canada visiting my family and it is so different from how things are in Ohio. Everything in Ohio is open and even the mask mandate has been lifted. Ontario is just coming out of a lockdown and most things are still closed. It honestly feels like Ohio felt in April 2020. I went to the grocery store and they still have the arrows on the ground and they were disinfecting the belt between customers. The restaurants are only open for takeout or outside on the patio and all the stores at the mall are closed. I’m not saying that’s a good thing or a bad thing, I’m just noting how different my experience here has been.

I should warn you that they are taking the 14 day quarantine period VERY seriously here. I actually had someone from the health department come and knock on the door and check to make sure I was there on day 8. Also, if you can get a Covid test at the border, do it there and don’t take it to the place you are doing your quarantine. I had to wait 90 minutes for a nurse to do the test online. Much quicker at the border.


----------



## wdwmom3

So I’m confused about kids.  Say everyone else travelling is fully vaccinated.  Could you still avoid the hotel quarantine, but say have them isolate for 2 weeks? 

And would it be ok for them to isolate with other people who didn’t travel but are fully vaccinated? 

I’m thinking all of us except for my youngest will be fully vaccinated by the end of July.  So we could always do an august trip and have him isolate for 2 weeks before school starts.  But my DH won’t be going with us.


----------



## OnceUponATime15

Sue M said:


> We are moving so quickly with vaccine roll out now. I think by July most of us that want it will have our 2nd jab.
> My Adult daughter is really looking forward to Aug trip that was postponed from last Aug. and if we can’t travel this Aug, she has to wait another year to get her vacation as that’s when she can take off work. I’m banking on official word that quarantine will be lifted.



I’m on my third trip rebook.. We were booked for June 2020, which I moved to December of 2020 then stopped booking replacement trips because there was (is?) no end in sight.

With the news the other day… I booked for mid February 2022.  I booked packages since the deposit is lower and i’m booking 2 rooms. Final payment comes up in January and I can cancel (again…) anytime until then - no penalty.  I’m not booking flights for several months knowing that both legacy carriers (AC & WJ) have always had very good seat sales in the fall and I expect them to this year as well.

All in all… I’m guardedly optimistic that the third time will be the charm.  As long as no more variants show up to spoil the fun.


----------



## OnceUponATime15

wdwmom3 said:


> So I’m confused about kids.  Say everyone else travelling is fully vaccinated.  Could you still avoid the hotel quarantine, but say have them isolate for 2 weeks?
> 
> And would it be ok for them to isolate with other people who didn’t travel but are fully vaccinated?
> 
> I’m thinking all of us except for my youngest will be fully vaccinated by the end of July.  So we could always do an august trip and have him isolate for 2 weeks before school starts.  But my DH won’t be going with us.



The question becomes - if they are not fully vaccinated (2 shots plus the 14 days for immunity to take hold) how will they be able to let children board flights here in Canada to go anywhere? 

Have I missed or misinterpreted something along the jumble of ever changing info?


----------



## bcwife76

wdwmom3 said:


> So I’m confused about kids.  Say everyone else travelling is fully vaccinated.  Could you still avoid the hotel quarantine, but say have them isolate for 2 weeks?
> 
> And would it be ok for them to isolate with other people who didn’t travel but are fully vaccinated?
> 
> I’m thinking all of us except for my youngest will be fully vaccinated by the end of July.  So we could always do an august trip and have him isolate for 2 weeks before school starts.  But my DH won’t be going with us.


That's what a lot of us are still waiting on for clarification. I'd like to book something for mid August when DH and I will be fully vaccinated along with our 12/13 yr old. Then that just leaves our 10 yr old unvaxxed.


----------



## damo

There hasn't been any clarification on kids.  On Friday, Dr. Tam said, “We’ll have obviously have to answer those detailed questions in the days to come”

Currently, children under the age of four are already exempt from testing requirements prior to and upon arrival in Canada. (according to The Star)

https://www.thestar.com/politics/fe...in-progress-for-children-top-doctor-says.html


----------



## bookbabe626

FYI, the Walgreens Rapid ID Now test is an NAAT test and works for re-entry to Canada.  Lots of locations near WDW.  

There is also rapid PCR testing at MCO, but it’s pricey.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

The Americans are certainly more optimistic then Canadians... I enjoy reading anything positive even though there is nothing to back the opening of the border by month’s end in this article 
Unless we will actually be about 75% vaccinated with first dose then? No idea. Plus I think our PM wants most with 2 doses but we’ll see.
https://www.deadlinedetroit.com/art...K0OrkjD-P0bFMD_wFnNfGL6wckG6bj8Gz_PLGyB1HKLV8


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

No deal!

*No deal: Trudeau says Canada-U.S. land border talks will continue*

https://news.paxeditions.com/news/b...ays-canada-us-land-border-talks-will-continue


----------



## wdwmom3

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> No deal!
> 
> *No deal: Trudeau says Canada-U.S. land border talks will continue*
> 
> https://news.paxeditions.com/news/b...ays-canada-us-land-border-talks-will-continue



I wonder if requiring proof of vaccination is a sticking point.


----------



## damo

wdwmom3 said:


> I wonder if requiring proof of vaccination is a sticking point.



I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

wdwmom3 said:


> I wonder if requiring proof of vaccination is a sticking point.


I think it’s very little Canadians having had their second dose of vaccine. We let American tourists in, possibly variants and boom. It all goes back to our vaccine rollout.
Until we are vaccinated with 2 doses I don’t see much else changing.
I feel for people (like teachers) that only get summers off to travel ...
But I’m hearing from a few now that they will fly to the US in August if they get both doses by then.
I think we’ll do the same unless something changes.


----------



## pigletto

Honestly I’m incredibly impressed that we appear to be not just rolling over and opening without hitting our targets.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

pigletto said:


> Honestly I’m incredibly impressed that we appear to be not just rolling over and opening without hitting our targets.



It's likely due to the medical professionals advice that is keeping everything status quo.


----------



## JeffjonesHfx

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> I think it’s very little Canadians having had their second dose of vaccine. We let American tourists in, possibly variants and boom. It all goes back to our vaccine rollout.
> Until we are vaccinated with 2 doses I don’t see much else changing.
> I feel for people (like teachers) that only get summers off to travel ...
> But I’m hearing from a few now that they will fly to the US in August if they get both doses by then.
> I think we’ll do the same unless something changes.


My wife and her best friend are both teachers and we have booked a couples trip for Aug 8 - 20.  This is the only window that allows 2 weeks following our second dose of vaccine and 2 weeks to quarantine upon return if still required under our Provincial rules.  Hopefully some of the rules get relaxed once the 2nd dose numbers increase.


----------



## TommyJK

I have tickets for Cedar Point that we bought in late 2019, for the 2020 season, which got extended to this year.  So I've pre-emptively booked a hotel in Sandusky for the 2nd last weekend of August in the hopes that by then, land border restrictions will have eased enough to be able to feasibly go.

Keeping my fingers crossed.


----------



## TammyLynn33

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> The Americans are certainly more optimistic then Canadians... I enjoy reading anything positive even though there is nothing to back the opening of the border by month’s end in this article
> Unless we will actually be about 75% vaccinated with first dose then? No idea. Plus I think our PM wants most with 2 doses but we’ll see.
> https://www.deadlinedetroit.com/art...K0OrkjD-P0bFMD_wFnNfGL6wckG6bj8Gz_PLGyB1HKLV8



love the comments at the end about being magnetized lol


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

In the above article, when he says 75% vaxxed, does he mean 1st dose or both?


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

Very interesting article looking at all sides. One thing that sticks out is the statement that Canada (our leaders) is not listening to
its own advisory panel when it comes to border reopening.

https://apple.news/A70hSQWptQ8yVv-sqhG4eew


----------



## Juventus

Land border is open!!!....between Ontario and Quebec...

It's a start I guess; They can't open the federal borders if our provincial ones aren't.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

Juventus said:


> Land border is open!!!....between Ontario and Quebec...
> 
> It's a start I guess; They can't open the federal borders if our provincial ones aren't.


The land border between the 2 provinces was closed?


----------



## White Cat

rosieposy said:


> I’m a Canadian Citizen and a US permanent resident. I live in Ohio and I’m fully vaccinated. I’m currently in Canada visiting my family and it is so different from how things are in Ohio. Everything in Ohio is open and even the mask mandate has been lifted. Ontario is just coming out of a lockdown and most things are still closed. It honestly feels like Ohio felt in April 2020. I went to the grocery store and they still have the arrows on the ground and they were disinfecting the belt between customers. The restaurants are only open for takeout or outside on the patio and all the stores at the mall are closed. I’m not saying that’s a good thing or a bad thing, I’m just noting how different my experience here has been.
> 
> I should warn you that they are taking the 14 day quarantine period VERY seriously here. I actually had someone from the health department come and knock on the door and check to make sure I was there on day 8. Also, if you can get a Covid test at the border, do it there and don’t take it to the place you are doing your quarantine. I had to wait 90 minutes for a nurse to do the test online. Much quicker at the border.


Yes, we have been through it several times. Depressing actually. The mind set is so different and fear in the Canadian people. It’s just so different. I still cant believe things are closed up. I won’t be staying long. My wife has to stay a little longer. She’s not looking forward to it.


----------



## Hopeful8

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> The land border between the 2 provinces was closed?


It was, for nearly two months!  With checkpoints and all.  Glad to see it will be reopened as of Wednesday.


----------



## TammyLynn33

White Cat said:


> Yes, we have been through it several times. Depressing actually. The mind set is so different and fear in the Canadian people. It’s just so different. I still cant believe things are closed up. I won’t be staying long. My wife has to stay a little longer. She’s not looking forward to it.



i personally don’t know anyone personally that passed here in Canada. I can’t say that for family and friends in the USA.I’ll
Happily take the so different and I’ll call it awareness and vigilance in keeping the people I know safe.


----------



## Jrb1979

White Cat said:


> Yes, we have been through it several times. Depressing actually. The mind set is so different and fear in the Canadian people. It’s just so different. I still cant believe things are closed up. I won’t be staying long. My wife has to stay a little longer. She’s not looking forward to it.


There is no fear in Canadians. We have been playing much safer here.


----------



## Prince John Robin Hood

I understand we may not be ready to open the border just yet but I would like to know what the plan is going forward.


----------



## Dawg74

I wish the land border would open soon.


----------



## ottawamom

Prince John Robin Hood said:


> I understand we may not be ready to open the border just yet but I would like to know what the plan is going forward.


Wouldn't we all like to look in that crystal ball.


----------



## bcwife76

Apparently the premiers are having a meeting on Thursday with the PM (virtual of course) to discuss all things border related (air,land and sea). So we should start to get a clearer idea of things going forward in a matter of days.


----------



## Sue M

bookbabe626 said:


> FYI, the Walgreens Rapid ID Now test is an NAAT test and works for re-entry to Canada.  Lots of locations near WDW.
> 
> There is also rapid PCR testing at MCO, but it’s pricey.


I thought we needed a PCR for re-entry to Canada?  Good to know about Walgreens. Did you notice the $


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

bcwife76 said:


> Apparently the premiers are having a meeting on Thursday with the PM (virtual of course) to discuss all things border related (air,land and sea). So we should start to get a clearer idea of things going forward in a matter of days.



Or they are going to make a plan to make a plan lol


----------



## newdeal

bcwife76 said:


> Apparently the premiers are having a meeting on Thursday with the PM (virtual of course) to discuss all things border related (air,land and sea). So we should start to get a clearer idea of things going forward in a matter of days.



Oh I can just imagine how thats going to go with Doug "lockdown" Ford


----------



## AdamsMum

ottawamom said:


> Wouldn't we all like to look in that crystal ball.


Not a crystal ball, but a plan.  Plans can be modified.  I for one would like to know what targets i.e. vaccine level, case level...they are looking for.  I don't think they should throw caution to the winds, but it would be nice if there was a plan and the Canadian people were informed about it.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

Another good read today.
At this point in the pandemic it’s clear it’s more than just us being extra cautious.
I still hope those in charge actually start making decisions based on science and open the border to those vaccinated to start.
Fingers crossed this summer, I agree with those that say a plan forward is needed asap.
I don’t think it’s too much to ask for.
Edited to add: those in other provinces should really feel for us here in Ontario. I’m saying that jokingly but I believe the current level of frustration/fatigue depends where in Canada you live. In Ontario indoor dining at restaurants won’t be open til sometime in August, hair salons sometime in July... 
We might have a bit less patience for everything in Ontario 
Let’s be kind and understanding
https://apple.news/AXPYXnM4KQVK6wBF_1ZLIRw


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

I just hope the Feds live up to their end of bargain once we have the majority at 2 doses. But I highly suspect they will find something else to keep us pinned down at home. They will find a new carrot to dangle. 

I have zero faith in the powers that be.


----------



## Marek Zyskowski

I think this week is sort of a deadline for people with jobs planning summer vacation. Air fares and hotels need to be booked very soon and time off of work needs to be organized. There needs to be some specific dates soon.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Marek Zyskowski said:


> I think this week is sort of a deadline for people with jobs planning summer vacation. Air fares and hotels need to be booked very soon and time off of work needs to be organized. There needs to be some specific dates soon.



I don't think the Feds really care about its citizens summer vacations.  That isn't high on their list of priorities. Unfortunately.


----------



## ellbell

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> I don't think the Feds really care about its citizens summer vacations.  That isn't high on their list of priorities. Unfortunately.


They really should though because an unhappy population makes for angry voters. There is no reason to keep telling the fully vaccinated part of the population that they don't know when they can make plans.


----------



## ottawamom

AdamsMum said:


> Not a crystal ball, but a plan.  Plans can be modified.  I for one would like to know what targets i.e. vaccine level, case level...they are looking for.  I don't think they should throw caution to the winds, but it would be nice if there was a plan and the Canadian people were informed about it.


I said Crystal ball because it's a peek at what the future holds.


----------



## ottawamom

The other thing to consider is the Delta variant. Maybe the powers that be know more than they are saying about the possible explosion of Delta variant cases unless they take it slow and monitor things carefully. I personally don't want another wave of this thing and if it means we stay confined a little longer so that we don't have another wave I'm all for it.

Don't get me wrong I want to be out there and moving just like everyone else. I have so many trips planned in my head I don't know if I have time enough to take them all.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

ottawamom said:


> The other thing to consider is the Delta variant. Maybe the powers that be know more than they are saying about the possible explosion of Delta variant cases unless they take it slow and monitor things carefully. I personally don't want another wave of this thing and if it means we stay confined a little longer so that we don't have another wave I'm all for it.
> 
> Don't get me wrong I want to be out there and moving just like everyone else. I have so many trips planned in my head I don't know if I have time enough to take them all.


The article I linked above does mention the delta variant and how effective vaccine is after one and two doses.
Also - fully vaccinated people in Canada should have a clearer direction then they currently do. 
Nobody is saying open to everyone right now.


----------



## bbangel

My understanding is that a major sticky point is being able to verify that people have their 2 doses of vaccine. They need a reliable way to do that otherwise people will just claim they are to be able to do what they want. It isn't as easy as it sounds, especially if you factor in other countries


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

bbangel said:


> My understanding is that a major sticky point is being able to verify that people have their 2 doses of vaccine. They need a reliable way to do that otherwise people will just claim they are to be able to do what they want. It isn't as easy as it sounds, especially if you factor in other countries


I completely agree but we knew for months this was coming. Other countries already have a system ready to go, from the sounds of it we are maybe starting to work on it.


----------



## Susan2771

Canada, U.S. to start talks on eventually lifting border restrictions: report - National | Globalnews.ca


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Susan2771 said:


> Canada, U.S. to start talks on eventually lifting border restrictions: report - National | Globalnews.ca



Same ol, same ol. Nothing new.


----------



## tlcdoula

Last night we were talking about if we could go early to mid November to California how we would work it with testing etc.  Then hubby wondered what employers might have in place for this.  For example if we came home on a Friday, Tested (not sure if we would be tested at airport or have to book appt) Hopefully got test results back before Sunday then back to work Monday.  Now if someone tested positive and you had to take an extra 2 weeks off work would be scrambling to cover your shifts etc.  

So will employers be able to put restrictions on where you can go or when etc  

I am such a planner that I will have to figure every possible angle out before going.


----------



## Sue M

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> I completely agree but we knew for months this was coming. Other countries already have a system ready to go, from the sounds of it we are maybe starting to work on it.


i know in BC we have a provincial health web site -Health Gateway, it shows all your lab tests incl Covid. But we need a national one, there has been talk about incorporating it into the Arrive Canada app already in use. 
I read the US govt isn’t going to provide anything official but doesn‘t mean a private company won’t step into the void. 



tlcdoula said:


> Last night we were talking about if we could go early to mid November to California how we would work it with testing etc.  Then hubby wondered what employers might have in place for this.  For example if we came home on a Friday, Tested (not sure if we would be tested at airport or have to book appt) Hopefully got test results back before Sunday then back to work Monday.  Now if someone tested positive and you had to take an extra 2 weeks off work would be scrambling to cover your shifts etc.
> 
> So will employers be able to put restrictions on where you can go or when etc
> 
> I am such a planner that I will have to figure every possible angle out before going.


yikes, I hope not!  About employer restrictions.  We return on Saturday and banking on dd being able to go to work Monday.  People here have been getting test results back same or next day.  Although dont know about airport location. Hopefully same thing.  I think the likelihood of getting a positive test being fully vaccinated is slim.


----------



## pigletto

tlcdoula said:


> Last night we were talking about if we could go early to mid November to California how we would work it with testing etc.  Then hubby wondered what employers might have in place for this.  For example if we came home on a Friday, Tested (not sure if we would be tested at airport or have to book appt) Hopefully got test results back before Sunday then back to work Monday.  Now if someone tested positive and you had to take an extra 2 weeks off work would be scrambling to cover your shifts etc.
> 
> So will employers be able to put restrictions on where you can go or when etc
> 
> I am such a planner that I will have to figure every possible angle out before going.


I think this is a very real possibility. Especially for those who work with the public. Dh works for regional government. I know they put something into place right away regarding no travel but I don’t know the specifics. It is going to bring up a lot of legal issues as well . Could a private employer require a quarantine period even if our government ends it, for example . This is all so unprecedented.


----------



## tlcdoula

Sue M said:


> i know in BC we have a provincial health web site -Health Gateway, it shows all your lab tests incl Covid. But we need a national one, there has been talk about incorporating it into the Arrive Canada app already in use.
> I read the US govt isn’t going to provide anything official but doesn‘t mean a private company won’t step into the void.
> 
> 
> yikes, I hope not!  About employer restrictions.  We return on Saturday and banking on dd being able to go to work Monday.  People here have been getting test results back same or next day.  Although dont know about airport location. Hopefully same thing.  I think the likelihood of getting a positive test being fully vaccinated is slim.



I agree with you, I am hoping we will get back to the most normal we can.  We need to get some disney planning in haha..


----------



## Sue M

ottawamom said:


> The other thing to consider is the Delta variant. Maybe the powers that be know more than they are saying about the possible explosion of Delta variant cases unless they take it slow and monitor things carefully. I personally don't want another wave of this thing and if it means we stay confined a little longer so that we don't have another wave I'm all for it.
> 
> Don't get me wrong I want to be out there and moving just like everyone else. I have so many trips planned in my head I don't know if I have time enough to take them all.


watching the news this morning they are saying our vaccines are working well against Delta variants, siting GB studies. 



HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> The article I linked above does mention the delta variant and how effective vaccine is after one and two doses.
> Also - fully vaccinated people in Canada should have a clearer direction then they currently do.
> Nobody is saying open to everyone right now.


i agree, fully vaccinated people need info soon!  Looks like the vaccines are very effective on Delta variants, we really need to get vaccine hesitant people on the bandwagon and get vaccinated so this variant and others don’t keep going here.  In BC we’re lucky there isn’t much hesitation here.  Today we start stage 2 opening.  Movie theatres! Yay!  It’s been so long. I get my 2nd vaccine today, so in 2 weeks I think I’ll celebrate by going to a movie


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

Sue M said:


> watching the news this morning they are saying our vaccines are working well against Delta variants, siting GB studies.
> 
> 
> i agree, fully vaccinated people need info soon!  Looks like the vaccines are very effective on Delta variants, we really need to get vaccine hesitant people on the bandwagon and get vaccinated so this variant and others don’t keep going here.  In BC we’re lucky there isn’t much hesitation here.  Today we start stage 2 opening.  Movie theatres! Yay!  It’s been so long. I get my 2nd vaccine today, so in 2 weeks I think I’ll celebrate by going to a movie


Enjoy all that you are able to do in BC! We want to go to the movies so badly but that’s in step 3 of Ontario reopening sometime mid August?


----------



## pigletto

Sue M said:


> watching the news this morning they are saying our vaccines are working well against Delta variants, siting GB studies.
> 
> 
> i agree, fully vaccinated people need info soon!  Looks like the vaccines are very effective on Delta variants, we really need to get vaccine hesitant people on the bandwagon and get vaccinated so this variant and others don’t keep going here.  In BC we’re lucky there isn’t much hesitation here.  Today we start stage 2 opening.  Movie theatres! Yay!  It’s been so long. I get my 2nd vaccine today, so in 2 weeks I think I’ll celebrate by going to a movie


We have more people with their first vaccine than anywhere in the world as of today .  Canada is powering through !

https://globalnews.ca/news/7949797/canada-covid-cases-june-14-2021/


----------



## Sue M

pigletto said:


> We have more people with their first vaccine than anywhere in the world as of today .  Canada is powering through !
> 
> https://globalnews.ca/news/7949797/canada-covid-cases-june-14-2021/


This is great news, esp after such a rocky start. And 2nd doses are ramping up, we just got a huge shipment.


----------



## ellbell

pigletto said:


> I think this is a very real possibility. Especially for those who work with the public. Dh works for regional government. I know they put something into place right away regarding no travel but I don’t know the specifics. It is going to bring up a lot of legal issues as well . Could a private employer require a quarantine period even if our government ends it, for example . This is all so unprecedented.


I don't know how this would work.  I'm not in the habit of telling my employer where I'm vacationing. If they started implementing some kind of restrictions I'm going to start lying.


----------



## TommyJK

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> Enjoy all that you are able to do in BC! We want to go to the movies so badly but that’s in step 3 of Ontario reopening sometime mid August?



Stage 3 should be approx. July 23rd.  Each stage is supposed to last 21 days.  Stage 1 started June 11th.

Barring the Delta variant taking off, I don't see any reason they would extend any of the upcoming stages.  And probably more than likely based on continued decreasing numbers perhaps each stage will be shorter.


----------



## AdamsMum

ottawamom said:


> I said Crystal ball because it's a peek at what the future holds.


I didn't mean to sound like I was criticizing you.  Only that they (our governments) seem to be making decisions on a day by day basis.  I think at this point there should be goals, and plans for what will happen when we reach those goals.  That can be modified if things don't turn out well, but I think at this point we deserve some positive messaging.  Let's hope things keep improving.


----------



## bcwife76

And now a 180 from "sorry, we still don't quite have a plan" to "oh look, we'll have a plan for you in the coming days."   

https://www.citynews1130.com/2021/06/15/canada-us-border-reopening/


----------



## bookbabe626

Sue M said:


> I thought we needed a PCR for re-entry to Canada?  Good to know about Walgreens. Did you notice the $



If you look at the test types accepted, NAAT is on the list.  That’s the Walgreens Rapid ID Now one.  And we used it Sunday driving across the border, so I know it works for the land crossing at least.  (Went with hubby on his work trip, just to get away, since I’d be stuck at home with him quarantining anyway)

Editing to add the link to the list.  I had originally thought that only PCR tests worked, but was surprised to see how extensive the list really is.  I’d been investigating the Walgreens one since that’s the one Americans use to get into Hawaii, and it seems like they had similar restrictions to us.
https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

bcwife76 said:


> And now a 180 from "sorry, we still don't quite have a plan" to "oh look, we'll have a plan for you in the coming days."
> 
> https://www.citynews1130.com/2021/06/15/canada-us-border-reopening/


Haha! It’s become quiet the normal thing for the government to release statements or even hold press conferences to announce an announcement in the coming days. Pretty aggravating but not surprising lol.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

By doing that it buys them another week to get their announcement together.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Posting this here and the airline policy thread:

*Next steps on easing travel restrictions will be revealed by Monday: Minister LeBlanc*

https://news.paxeditions.com/news/b...ions-will-be-revealed-monday-minister-leblanc


----------



## torontominnie

For the person who crossed with the Walgreens test, would you mind telling me how complicated the process was? I looked at the government site and the CDC site, and it looks like the POC NAAT test (which that seems to be?) shouldn't count? Did they ask a lot of questions or does the test say NAAT somewhere on it? I'm trying to find the most affordable way to bring my family home in a couple of weeks and I'm hoping to avoid super high test costs since we are fully vaccinated.


----------



## ottawamom

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> By doing that it buys them another week to get their announcement together.


I don't know where I saw this it might have been here earlier on in the thread but it's kind of relevent. Applies to all governments these days. I had it saved on my desktop and just came across it again.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

@ottawamom I just spit out my coffee! LMAO


----------



## Susan2771

No June reopening planned for Canada-U.S. border | The Star


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

I didn't think it would be June.  I think they will extend the June 21 order into two week increments vs 30-day increments going forward.


----------



## wdwmom3

Susan2771 said:


> No June reopening planned for Canada-U.S. border | The Star



I would expect it won’t be open until at least the end of July.


----------



## Sue M

wdwmom3 said:


> I would expect it won’t be open until at least the end of July.


I have hopes it will be early July


----------



## wdwmom3

Sue M said:


> I have hopes it will be early July



I’m just thinking it will take that long to get more people 2 doses.  And allow 2 weeks for immunity.


----------



## Sue M

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> Posting this here and the airline policy thread:
> 
> *Next steps on easing travel restrictions will be revealed by Monday: Minister LeBlanc*
> 
> https://news.paxeditions.com/news/b...ions-will-be-revealed-monday-minister-leblanc


Dissappointed to hear they’re sticking to having 2 tests returning home .  Would be nice if it was just one test at airport.  If they insist on 2 tests at least make it 3 days rather than 72 hrs from entry point to Canada. With potential delays with connecting flights it could be a problem.  I notice the US test is 3 days.
Maybe by August it will change.

Guess it’s going to be awhile until I can nip across border for my Trader Joes shopping


----------



## Sue M

wdwmom3 said:


> I’m just thinking it will take that long to get more people 2 doses.  And allow 2 weeks for immunity.


You may be right considering the vaccine  rates are so different province to province.  Some are moving faster than others. But just heard we have another big shipment arriving today. Seems to be going fast.  And no reason they can’t just start with those that are vaccinated now 
And a lower amount of people would give them a chance to work out the bugs.


----------



## wdwmom3

Sue M said:


> You may be right considering the vaccine  rates are so different province to province.  Some are moving faster than others. But just heard we have another big shipment arriving today. Seems to be going fast.  And no reason they can’t just start with those that are vaccinated now
> And a lower amount of people would give them a chance to work out the bugs.



Yes but a lot of younger people are still getting their first shot or just got one within the last couple weeks.   They would have to wait a few weeks for a second shot and then the 2 weeks after.  

So I can’t see it opening before mid to late July.


----------



## Sue M

wdwmom3 said:


> Yes but a lot of younger people are still getting their first shot or just got one within the last couple weeks.   They would have to wait a few weeks for a second shot and then the 2 weeks after.
> 
> So I can’t see it opening before mid to late July.


I think we should be getting an announcement Monday?  A lot of us are waiting with baited breath for that!  This being in limbo is awful.


----------



## Pumpkin1172

ottawamom said:


> I don't know where I saw this it might have been here earlier on in the thread but it's kind of relevent. Applies to all governments these days. I had it saved on my desktop and just came across it again.


I seen this and laughed out loud at work.  I was watching a Canadian Youtuber who has a cruising channel along with a personal channel ( Just Don) talking about this as well.  I giggle at him sometimes.  But this seems very much like what is happening now.  


ilovetotravel1977 said:


> I didn't think it would be June. I think they will extend the June 21 order into two week increments vs 30-day increments going forward.


I am interested on what the plan is?  What markers are they aiming for?  What might be the rules be upon return to Canada?  What about those of us who have received both doses?  WHAT IS THEIR PLAN????  

I think every Canadian deserves the right to know what their plan is.  

I am not saying throw caution to the wind and whip open the boarder BUT, we have been promised that once vaccines started arriving, and shots were received, and now more second shots happening...can we not start to move forward?  We still need to be somewhat cautious, but could we start to move forward now? We are doing what is being asked of us by our own leaders, and we have listened ( mostly) to the restrictions and rolled up our sleeves....so what is their plan?


----------



## dvcdisney

Perhaps they're waiting until everyone can get the 2nd dose without delay....since there's still a lot of people who, although they are anxious to book it, has to wait until it's their turn to move up the 2nd dose. 

I do think that's going to be soon...so hopefully, by end of July, everyone would be able to book an earlier 2nd dose.

Our area is adding 2-4 clinics but only for 1st doses. But it appears that the 2nd dose availability is the issue.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

Sue M said:


> You may be right considering the vaccine  rates are so different province to province.  Some are moving faster than others. But just heard we have another big shipment arriving today. Seems to be going fast.  And no reason they can’t just start with those that are vaccinated now
> And a lower amount of people would give them a chance to work out the bugs.


Yes they should start with the fully vaccinated soon (and I’m saying that while only having one dose and second  currently scheduled for mid September) - but I feel it’s partially the “we want to be fair as not everyone can get their second dose now” type of situation. We don’t want hurt anyone’s feelings because this is Canada after all. I am partially joking but wouldn’t rule that out. Lol
They should let those fully vaccinated come and go with a covid test and see how it goes. That way we have something to go on, see how it’s working. Instead of waiting for EVERYONE.


----------



## Gigi22

dvcdisney said:


> Perhaps they're waiting until everyone can get the 2nd dose without delay....since there's still a lot of people who, although they are anxious to book it, has to wait until it's their turn to move up the 2nd dose.
> 
> I do think that's going to be soon...so hopefully, by end of July, everyone would be able to book an earlier 2nd dose.
> 
> Our area is adding 2-4 clinics but only for 1st doses. But it appears that the 2nd dose availability is the issue.



Agreed.  Currently, those of us in Ontario who had their first shot after April 18, are under 70 and do not live in one of the designated “hot spots” have to wait until  July 19 to begin rebooking (moving forward) the date of their second shot.  So, unless something radically changes before the end of June, I’m thinking a July opening is just not possible.


----------



## KNovacovschi

Gigi22 said:


> Agreed.  Currently, those of us in Ontario who had their first shot after April 18, are under 70 and do not live in one of the designated “hot spots” have to wait until  July 19 to begin rebooking (moving forward) the date of their second shot.  So, unless something radically changes before the end of June, I’m thinking a July opening is just not possible.



Unless you received AZ as your first dose then it’s 8 weeks. I had my first shot on April 22nd and today I’m at 8 weeks and booked for Tuesday June 22nd for my 2nd shot but it’s Pfizer. I booked on Monday for it.


----------



## hdrolfe

CBC on Ontario 2nd doses this will help get us to two doses, but finding an appointment still seems to be the issue. Some people here don't even have their first dose yet...


----------



## quandrea

hdrolfe said:


> CBC on Ontario 2nd doses this will help get us to two doses, but finding an appointment still seems to be the issue. Some people here don't even have their first dose yet...


Perhaps it’s where I live, but there seems to be lots of Pfizer/Moderna supply at pharmacies. Encouraging people to reach out to your pharmacies.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

Gigi22 said:


> Agreed.  Currently, those of us in Ontario who had their first shot after April 18, are under 70 and do not live in one of the designated “hot spots” have to wait until  July 19 to begin rebooking (moving forward) the date of their second shot.  So, unless something radically changes before the end of June, I’m thinking a July opening is just not possible.


I agree that 2nd appts are an issue but it’s still no reason why those that ARE fully vaccinated already can’t cross the border with less restrictions.
I only have one dose and got it less than 3 weeks ago, I know I can’t go but I don’t  see why my SIL is who is fully vaccinated can’t.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

quandrea said:


> Perhaps it’s where I live, but there seems to be lots of Pfizer/Moderna supply at pharmacies. Encouraging people to reach out to your pharmacies.


Yes I just put myself on a waitlist at a couple of pharmacies. They still say they have to wait until you’re eligible as per the province but it’s another option right?
Bonus is they tell you in advance if it’s Moderna or Pfizer as personally I prefer not to mix.


----------



## hdrolfe

quandrea said:


> Perhaps it’s where I live, but there seems to be lots of Pfizer/Moderna supply at pharmacies. Encouraging people to reach out to your pharmacies.



I am on multiple wait lists. I was only able to book a second AZ because someone told me they had manged to get a booking at Costco for Pfizer, when I checked all the pfizer was gone but they had AZ spots. So I took it since it's Friday and I'd rather get it sooner, by the time I finished booking all the slots were gone. Why isn't there a central system? That's all I don't understand... they should have been more organized, other provinces are able to manage one site to book with but Ontario you have to register in multiple places, and that's if you can use the Provincial system, some local health units have their own... it's nuts.


----------



## bcwife76

KNovacovschi said:


> Unless you received AZ as your first dose then it’s 8 weeks. I had my first shot on April 22nd and today I’m at 8 weeks and booked for Tuesday June 22nd for my 2nd shot but it’s Pfizer. I booked on Monday for it.


Are you concerned at all about being let into the US (and other countries) with regards to mixing and matching? Our 8 weeks is up this coming Sunday, we got AZ as our first dose but it's extremely difficult to find AZ here in the Lower Mainland of BC and I think it will be way easier to get Pfizer as our second dose. The only thing holding me back is the what ifs of not being considered fully vaxxed if we mix and match.


----------



## Pumpkin1172

bcwife76 said:


> Are you concerned at all about being let into the US (and other countries) with regards to mixing and matching? Our 8 weeks is up this coming Sunday, we got AZ as our first dose but it's extremely difficult to find AZ here in the Lower Mainland of BC and I think it will be way easier to get Pfizer as our second dose. The only thing holding me back is the what ifs of not being considered fully vaxxed if we mix and match.


WE have thought the same thing.  Since we did the mix and match....just because of the better fight for it against the variant (that is a little concerning here in Alberta - but our cases are still trending way down)  

If it comes to needing another shot of Pfizer by the time we want to travel (which is Jan 2022) we will roll up our sleeve again for another shot. 

Hopefully that won't be a concern by that time - and we will be considered fully vaccinated,


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

My parents had their first dose (PF) the third week of April, their second dose was moved from end of July to July 3.
My MIL had hers (MD) that same week but got her second for next week.
I am scheduled for mine Sept 7, but I know it will be bumped to the end of July.


----------



## Sue M

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> I agree that 2nd appts are an issue but it’s still no reason why those that ARE fully vaccinated already can’t cross the border with less restrictions.
> I only have one dose and got it less than 3 weeks ago, I know I can’t go but I don’t  see why my SIL is who is fully vaccinated can’t.


Exactly. And will give them a chance with gradual opening to test the system rather then wait for the stampede.  No reason why fully vaccinated people can’t start crossing.


----------



## Etch

Gigi22 said:


> Currently, those of us in Ontario who had their first shot after April 18, are under 70 and do not live in one of the designated “hot spots” have to wait until July 19 to begin rebooking (moving forward) the date of their second shot.



They just moved this up to June 28th for everyone over 18 in Ontario depending on when you got your first shot.

Also, there are a *massive* amounts of vaccine arriving in Ontario this week which should help immensely with second appointments.


----------



## Sue M

Pumpkin1172 said:


> WE have thought the same thing.  Since we did the mix and match....just because of the better fight for it against the variant (that is a little concerning here in Alberta - but our cases are still trending way down)
> 
> If it comes to needing another shot of Pfizer by the time we want to travel (which is Jan 2022) we will roll up our sleeve again for another shot.
> 
> Hopefully that won't be a concern by that time - and we will be considered fully vaccinated,


We’ll be needing a booster in a year.


----------



## Sue M

bcwife76 said:


> Are you concerned at all about being let into the US (and other countries) with regards to mixing and matching? Our 8 weeks is up this coming Sunday, we got AZ as our first dose but it's extremely difficult to find AZ here in the Lower Mainland of BC and I think it will be way easier to get Pfizer as our second dose. The only thing holding me back is the what ifs of not being considered fully vaxxed if we mix and match.


I’d be finding out. Not sure if US accepts AZ as being fully vaccinated.


----------



## dis_guy

I've been noticing more and more entertainment venues in the US are requiring full vaccinations for all their guests. The Bruce Springsteen one man show, for one, won't accept the AZ vaccine as it's not FDA approved. I'm worried that might also be the case for entry to the US as well. It'll really suck for all of us Canadians who took it because it was the only option open to us at the time. The same would hold true for many UK residents as they used loads of the AZ product as well. Who knows what that will mean for those who had AZ first and then an mRNA vaccine for their second dose? Would an mRNA booster next year rectify this?


----------



## TommyJK

dis_guy said:


> I've been noticing more and more entertainment venues in the US are requiring full vaccinations for all their guests. The Bruce Springsteen one man show, for one, won't accept the AZ vaccine as it's not FDA approved. I'm worried that might also be the case for entry to the US as well. It'll really suck for all of us Canadians who took it because it was the only option open to us at the time. The same would hold true for many UK residents as they used loads of the AZ product as well. Who knows what that will men for those who had AZ first and then an mRNA vaccine for their second dose? Would an mRNA booster next year rectify this?



I'm guessing that the US from a border prespective will allow AZ folks.  Like you noted it would eliminate about 1/2 the UK population if they didn't allow AZ folks in and that's a lot of tourist revenue and other business traveller implications that would hurt them.

Edit:  Also the border re-opening is going to be a 2-way negotiated deal between Canada and the US.  I would think the Canadian side of the negotiations will insist that they allow AZ folks as part of any negotiated re-opening plan.


----------



## Susan2771

Hopefully tomorrow the Federal Government will share the plan.  Since the Prime Minister will be having the virtual meeting tonight with the premiers, maybe the PMO will want to get ahead of any potential leaks and confusion that could happen with the information being shared with the premiers.


----------



## Sue M

This is a whole new can of worms!  I would like to think the US will look at the science and realize AZ is effective.


----------



## ellbell

dis_guy said:


> I've been noticing more and more entertainment venues in the US are requiring full vaccinations for all their guests. The Bruce Springsteen one man show, for one, won't accept the AZ vaccine as it's not FDA approved. I'm worried that might also be the case for entry to the US as well. It'll really suck for all of us Canadians who took it because it was the only option open to us at the time. The same would hold true for many UK residents as they used loads of the AZ product as well. Who knows what that will mean for those who had AZ first and then an mRNA vaccine for their second dose? Would an mRNA booster next year rectify this?


Considering the US President actually released a portion of the AZ supply they weren't using so we could be vaccinated I'm sure it will be accepted


----------



## hdrolfe

I should think that the WHO approval of a vaccine would be enough to have it considered valid. I read an article about Canadians overseas getting versions not approved yet in Canada and having issues. It does cause me some concern since I'll have AZ. But I'm not sure it would be better to get Pfizer and mix n match at this point. It is certainly frustrating, hopefully things will clear up as more people get both doses, and if there would be some sort of vaccine passport from Canada that simply says "vaccinated for COVID".


----------



## wdwmom3

They may add something to say a vaccine approved in your country or vaccine approved in Canada, the UK etc.   I’m saying this for the border, not necessarily other things.


----------



## alohamom

Sue M said:


> This is a whole new can of worms!  I would like to think the US will look at the science and realize AZ is effective.



This! I believe that the reason that AZ is not FDA approved it because of the possible side effects, not because it is less effective as a vaccine. SMH...


----------



## TommyJK

Also realize that our PM is an AZ recipient. You think a border reopening plan with the US would happen that would exclude our Prime Minister? 

IMO this is all being blown up out of proportion in the media (they're going nuts about it in the radio) from a single Broadway show announcement that somehow this is the default of what it will be everywhere including the border.


----------



## wdwmom3

TommyJK said:


> Also realize that our PM is an AZ recipient. You think a border reopening plan with the US would happen that would exclude our Prime Minister?
> 
> IMO this is all being blown up out of proportion in the media (they're going nuts about it in the radio) from a single Broadway show announcement that somehow this is the default of what it will be everywhere including the border.



Exactly.   It’s one business.  It’s not going to be that way for the border.


----------



## Sue M

alohamom said:


> This! I believe that the reason that AZ is not FDA approved it because of the possible side effects, not because it is less effective as a vaccine. SMH...


That’s what I think too.


----------



## suse66

Gigi22 said:


> Agreed. Currently, those of us in Ontario who had their first shot after April 18, are under 70 and do not live in one of the designated “hot spots” have to wait until July 19 to begin rebooking (moving forward) the date of their second shot. So, unless something radically changes before the end of June, I’m thinking a July opening is just not possible.


Now officially June 28th! We are moving quickly. 


bcwife76 said:


> Are you concerned at all about being let into the US (and other countries) with regards to mixing and matching? Our 8 weeks is up this coming Sunday, we got AZ as our first dose but it's extremely difficult to find AZ here in the Lower Mainland of BC and I think it will be way easier to get Pfizer as our second dose. The only thing holding me back is the what ifs of not being considered fully vaxxed if we mix and match.


I am not worried about it at all. All vaccines have been approved by Health Canada and I am confident the US government will recognize them. After all, the US gave us millions of AZ doses.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toro...une-17-2021-vaccine-update-waterloo-1.6069022
https://globalnews.ca/news/7958255/ontario-second-vaccine-doses-earlier-more-regions/


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

This is all great news! But personally I won’t be mixing brands of vaccine (we got Pfizer for the first dose)... read on the CDC website that you should not be mixing Pfizer and Moderna UNLESS you can’t find what you got the first time. Wonder how this will all play out. I look at AZ people and can’t imagine how confused they must be.


----------



## TommyJK

Interesting thing to note after my second jab. My first was AZ and my second I just got was Pfizer.  The receipt I got from ministry of health shows the Pfizer shot I just got, then at the bottom it says I have received 2 doses of a valid vaccine. No mention of AZ anywhere on it.


----------



## KNovacovschi

bcwife76 said:


> Are you concerned at all about being let into the US (and other countries) with regards to mixing and matching? Our 8 weeks is up this coming Sunday, we got AZ as our first dose but it's extremely difficult to find AZ here in the Lower Mainland of BC and I think it will be way easier to get Pfizer as our second dose. The only thing holding me back is the what ifs of not being considered fully vaxxed if we mix and match.



After watching our evening news I’m not worried about mixing since they are pushing for Pfizer/Moderna instead of AZ but what I’m worried about is the US not acknowledging or accepting AZ as a valid vaccine since it’s not approved by the FDA. They stated on the news that places like Broadway will not accept it since it’s not approved in the US. We will have to see.


----------



## KNovacovschi

Etch said:


> They just moved this up to June 28th for everyone over 18 in Ontario depending on when you got your first shot.
> 
> Also, there are a *massive* amounts of vaccine arriving in Ontario this week which should help immensely with second appointments.



Also depends where you are, they announced 3 more cities as Delta variant hotspot, Hamilton being one of them, and if you had your first shot May 9th or before you can book on Monday and if you had it May 30th and before you can book on Wednesday however if you are not in those Delta hotspot areas then it opens to everyone else on June 28th.


----------



## Sue M

suse66 said:


> Now officially June 28th! We are moving quickly.
> I am not worried about it at all. All vaccines have been approved by Health Canada and I am confident the US government will recognize them. After all, the US gave us millions of AZ doses.
> 
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toro...une-17-2021-vaccine-update-waterloo-1.6069022
> https://globalnews.ca/news/7958255/ontario-second-vaccine-doses-earlier-more-regions/


on the other hand, Canada says they won’t recognize vaccines that haven’t been approved here.   I hope we’ll get some clarity next week. 



HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> This is all great news! But personally I won’t be mixing brands of vaccine (we got Pfizer for the first dose)... read on the CDC website that you should not be mixing Pfizer and Moderna UNLESS you can’t find what you got the first time. Wonder how this will all play out. I look at AZ people and can’t imagine how confused they must be.


Too late for me. I got Moderna as first shot then  on Tuesday had Pfizer. In BC our health doctor and minister are saying it’s perfectly safe.  I dont know why they wouldn’t be. They’re the same technology.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

Sue M said:


> on the other hand, Canada says they won’t recognize vaccines that haven’t been approved here.   I hope we’ll get some clarity next week.
> 
> 
> Too late for me. I got Moderna as first shot then  on Tuesday had Pfizer. In BC our health doctor and minister are saying it’s perfectly safe.  I dont know why they wouldn’t be. They’re the same technology.


Honestly I’m just paranoid with all the back and forth recommendations and yes Canada Healfh says it’s safe. I’m sure it is, I just prefer not to mix, I don’t know. I feel something different every day lol.
At some point Canada had a shipload of Pfizer coming and Moderna was going to be delayed. Now I’m not sure anymore.


----------



## AdamsMum

bcwife76 said:


> Are you concerned at all about being let into the US (and other countries) with regards to mixing and matching? Our 8 weeks is up this coming Sunday, we got AZ as our first dose but it's extremely difficult to find AZ here in the Lower Mainland of BC and I think it will be way easier to get Pfizer as our second dose. The only thing holding me back is the what ifs of not being considered fully vaxxed if we mix and match.


I'm very concerned about this new wrinkle with the U.S.  I followed all the protocols which caused me no end of anxiety  including stay home, masking at work and anywhere outside of my home, missing my family who all live in other cities. I just had my first visit, short and outdoors, with my 86 year old mum since last September because she lives in another city.  When they said get the first vaccine available to you which for 60 - 64 age group was AZ, I followed the advice, now that I've been fully vaccinated with AZ, NACI is _recommending_ the second dose should be MRNA.  Now I might not be able to travel to the U.S. because they won't accept AZ.  I'm at the end of my rope with this.  I own DVC, that is mostly where I take my vacations.  Europe would be a once in a decade trip because of the cost.


----------



## quandrea

AdamsMum said:


> I'm very concerned about this new wrinkle with the U.S.  I followed all the protocols which caused me no end of anxiety  including stay home, masking at work and anywhere outside of my home, missing my family who all live in other cities. I just had my first visit, short and outdoors, with my 86 year old mum since last September because she lives in another city.  When they said get the first vaccine available to you which for 60 - 64 age group was AZ, I followed the advice, now that I've been fully vaccinated with AZ, NACI is _recommending_ the second dose should be MRNA.  Now I might not be able to travel to the U.S. because they won't accept AZ.  I'm at the end of my rope with this.  I own DVC, that is mostly where I take my vacations.  Europe would be a once in a decade trip because of the cost.


The cdc recognises AZ. See the linked webpage in an above post. There is one place (Springsteen on Broadway) not accepting AZ. This decision is one based upon ignorance and I can’t see it being a regularity going forward. I’d try and take it a step at a time. No need just yet to worry over your dvc. There are thousands of U.K. residents vaccinated with AZ. The US is not going to shut them all out.


----------



## AdamsMum

quandrea said:


> The cdc recognises AZ. See the linked webpage in an above post. There is one place (Springsteen on Broadway) not accepting AZ. This decision is one based upon ignorance and I can’t see it being a regularity going forward. I’d try and take it a step at a time. No need just yet to worry over your dvc. There are thousands of U.K. residents vaccinated with AZ. The US is not going to shut them all out.


I really hope you're right.  It's hard not to overreact after all we've been through.


----------



## samsteele

Still in very early days re US acknowledging vaccinated travellers from abroad. Millions in the UK will have 2 shots AZ. They won't be kept out en masse because all they were offered was AZ and some limited Pfizer. Moderna not offered in the UK. My guess is Canada will jump on board with an internationally approved vax certificate that doesn't actually state the name of the vaccine or vaccines you received. Just that you had 2 approved doses according to your nationality. That should skirt these problems neatly.


----------



## hdrolfe

AdamsMum said:


> I'm very concerned about this new wrinkle with the U.S.  I followed all the protocols which caused me no end of anxiety  including stay home, masking at work and anywhere outside of my home, missing my family who all live in other cities. I just had my first visit, short and outdoors, with my 86 year old mum since last September because she lives in another city.  When they said get the first vaccine available to you which for 60 - 64 age group was AZ, I followed the advice, now that I've been fully vaccinated with AZ, NACI is _recommending_ the second dose should be MRNA.  Now I might not be able to travel to the U.S. because they won't accept AZ.  I'm at the end of my rope with this.  I own DVC, that is mostly where I take my vacations.  Europe would be a once in a decade trip because of the cost.



I feel the same, I moved my second AZ to Pfizer last minute yesterday, but still worry because it's mixing. I just feel defeated. Travelling within Canada is fine, and I guess Europe will be ok with it since they have been doing some testing on mixing (UK at least) but I want to cruise, and go back to Disney. I'll be considered "fully vaxxed" coming back to Canada at least, which had better have some benefit eventually.

I am glad that it looks like Canada is on track for a decent percentage of people getting vaccinated, we're leading now in one dose and I hope people that got one will want the second. I just hope all this effort and mixing will work out I guess? 

First Phase of vaccine passport in Canada live in July, this is the ArriveCan app that's been mentioned before.


----------



## quandrea

AdamsMum said:


> I really hope you're right.  It's hard not to overreact after all we've been through.


I know. I’ll often ask my husband’ “Are you worried?” when I’m getting anxious about something. He always replies, “Would it help?” (Quote lifted from Bridge of Spies movie).  He’s right. Worry doesn’t change the outcome and it ruins my life in the meantime. One step at a time.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

In the article posted above, it says:

The Toronto Star reported Thursday that this phase — *which would allow Canadians to digitally verify their vaccination status with the federal government — won't be ready until the fall* and will only accept proof of vaccination with one of Canada's four accredited vaccines: Pfizer, Moderna, AstraZeneca and Johnson and Johnson.

So now we need to know if "fall" means Sept (likely not), Oct (most likely) or Nov (reaching). I am thinking they will wait to have this all go live once until summer vacations are over and school has started.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> In the article posted above, it says:
> 
> The Toronto Star reported Thursday that this phase — *which would allow Canadians to digitally verify their vaccination status with the federal government — won't be ready until the fall* and will only accept proof of vaccination with one of Canada's four accredited vaccines: Pfizer, Moderna, AstraZeneca and Johnson and Johnson.
> 
> So now we need to know if "fall" means Sept (likely not), Oct (most likely) or Nov (reaching). I am thinking they will wait to have this all go live once until summer vacations are over and school has started.


Yes that could be...
I read somewhere last night (trying to remember where) that even though it’s Fall for the digital vaccine proof, starting in July they will accept a screenshot or something else uploaded into the arrive app.


----------



## hdrolfe

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> Yes that could be...
> I read somewhere last night (trying to remember where) that even though it’s Fall for the digital vaccine proof, starting in July they will accept a screenshot or something else uploaded into the arrive app.



The article I linked above says that. First phase will be live in July. They need provincial buy in, blah blah... hopefully by Fall.


----------



## damo

quandrea said:


> I know. I’ll often ask my husband’ “Are you worried?” when I’m getting anxious about something. He always replies, “Would it help?” (Quote lifted from Bridge of Spies movie).  He’s right. Worry doesn’t change the outcome and it ruins my life in the meantime. One step at a time.



I don't think worrying is a choice, however.


----------



## Marek Zyskowski

ottawamom said:


> I don't know where I saw this it might have been here earlier on in the thread but it's kind of relevent. Applies to all governments these days. I had it saved on my desktop and just came across it again.
> 
> View attachment 582697


Luckily we are only worried about hockey in Montreal this week.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Trudeau is having  press conference today at 11:15am according to this article:

https://news.paxeditions.com/news/buzz/vaccine-certificates-going-live-july-arrivecan-app-reports


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

hdrolfe said:


> The article I linked above says that. First phase will be live in July. They need provincial buy in, blah blah... hopefully by Fall.



Now that NB has opened its borders to all of Canada, NS is in stealth mode trying to get a vaccine certificate or card or something in place to identify 2-dose vaccinations.  Hopefully this will push us to something more formal quicker so we will be ready to go in the fall.


----------



## Susan2771

First phase of vaccine certification going live in July for travellers entering Canada | CBC News

Maybe hearing more about this at the press conference with Trudeau this morning?

Trudeau expected to unveil U.S. border plan with restrictions set to expire Monday - 680 NEWS


----------



## wdwmom3

I just want to hear news about unvaccinated kids and how they will be handled.


----------



## TommyJK

wdwmom3 said:


> I just want to hear news about unvaccinated kids and how they will be handled.



Unfortunately I don't think they'll get that specific today.  And my guess is that whatever rule they put in place regarding unvaxxinated people will apply to all (kids and adults).

So if unvaxxed requires quarantines and/or various tests I'm assuming it will apply to both kids and adults.  Just a guess though.


----------



## Sue M

According to the morning news today now it’s reversed, getting less than projected Pfizer and more Moderna. It’s enough to make you crazy.  I didn’t want to wait, whatever they were putting in my arm I was going to take.

OH NO @#$&. Govt just announced they are extending Border Closure another month, until July 21


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

delete sorry phone went crazy lol


----------



## TammyLynn33

Sue M said:


> According to the morning news today now it’s reversed, getting less than projected Pfizer and more Moderna. It’s enough to make you crazy.  I didn’t want to wait, whatever they were putting in my arm I was going to take.
> 
> OH NO @#$&. Govt just announced they are extending Border Closure another month, until July 21



Yikes .
I have  got Pfeizer  x2, DD will be getting both bc she’s 15, DS has own Pfeizer and I’m not sure even as a nurse I’m ok with him mixing . Tho cardiac issues are rare, I doubt as moving is new they would have much if any research on whether mixing increases the risk. I just worry ..
I feel like they are telling us whatever they need to to match the shipments coming in, just to get numbers up ..


----------



## Susan2771

Restrictions at U.S. border to remain in place until end of July, Blair says | CTV News


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Has anyone seen the link to the 11:15am press conference?  Usually CBC.ca has it front and centre, but I can't seem to locate it.

Edit to add: found it on CTV
https://www.ctvnews.ca/video?playlistId=1.4911617


----------



## TommyJK

Susan2771 said:


> Restrictions at U.S. border to remain in place until end of July, Blair says | CTV News



While disappointing I'm not surprised.  With the Delta picking up in a new hot spots and how cautious they've been this doesn't come as a shock unfortunately.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

I am not surprise it is closed for another month. We are not ready on the vaccine certificate front.  This just shows they are winging it as usual and they are not ready.


----------



## Pumpkin1172

Well, it's not shocking.  I mean we all knew they wouldn't just whip open the boarder with no restrictions or guildelines. 

So my question back to them is " What is the plan?  What are the bench marks your looking at?  What targets are you aiming for?  WHAT IS THE FREAKING PLAN!!!!!!  

Why can't our leaders actually show what their plans are?  It's beyond frustrating already.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

@Pumpkin1172 hopefully that will come today/Monday


----------



## petunia

I missed the update, with the US border closed another month does this void the plan for no 14 day quarantine for fully vaccinated that was to begin next month for Canadians?


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Press conference hasnt started yet.


----------



## Mikey15

petunia said:


> I missed the update, with the US border closed another month does this void the plan for no 14 day quarantine for fully vaccinated that was to begin next month for Canadians?



You haven’t missed anything, this is all super new.

The Minister has announced that they’ll be announcing the quarantine adjustments/changes on Monday, June 21. That’s independent of whether the US/Canada land border is open to non-essential travel.

I am eating crow a little on border not opening by July 4th. There is still significance to quarantine changes for fully-vaccinated though since air travel continues, and dual-nationals can still cross as well.


----------



## petunia

Thanks, thought there was an announcement at 11

Really trying to plan for WDW in August, trying to decide if it is better to drive over and fly from Buffalo or just fly from here, or if there will be no difference at all...


----------



## podgirl

petunia said:


> Thanks, thought there was an announcement at 11
> 
> Really trying to plan for WDW in August, trying to decide if it is better to drive over and fly from Buffalo or just fly from here, or if there will be no difference at all...


I'm in the same boat. I took a chance and bought cheap flights out of Detroit for mid-August. I really hope I don't have to re-book...


----------



## Madame

quandrea said:


> I know. I’ll often ask my husband’ “Are you worried?” when I’m getting anxious about something. He always replies, “Would it help?” (Quote lifted from Bridge of Spies movie).  He’s right. Worry doesn’t change the outcome and it ruins my life in the meantime. One step at a time.


My DH always says “It’s your heart attack…”. And I hate it that he’s always right


----------



## mamaofsix

petunia said:


> Thanks, thought there was an announcement at 11
> 
> Really trying to plan for WDW in August, trying to decide if it is better to drive over and fly from Buffalo or just fly from here, or if there will be no difference at all...


Well, you likely don't have a choice but to fly from Canada.  Pretty risky to think the land border will be open for you to drive across by August.


----------



## Pumpkin1172

Mikey15 said:


> I am eating crow a little on border not opening by July 4th. There is still significance to quarantine changes for fully-vaccinated though since air travel continues, and dual-nationals can still cross as well.


I don'think that at all!!!  

I had a gut feeling that wasn't going to happen.  Given that they give not reasoning as to what their benchamrks are for travelling.  They don't even want Canadians travelling for non-essential reasons, why would they just whip open the boarder for American travellers to come into Canada?  But at some point, they will need to open the boarder.  Hopefully the reason to their holdout if because they want more Canadian fully immunized.  

I'm just tired of the flip flopping of wording and no benchmarks or points what they are looking at for their " plan" .  At this point, it seems like there really isn't a plan with all the flip flop rhetoric that has been flowing lately.


----------



## ellbell

petunia said:


> Thanks, thought there was an announcement at 11
> 
> Really trying to plan for WDW in August, trying to decide if it is better to drive over and fly from Buffalo or just fly from here, or if there will be no difference at all...


I played it safe and booked flights out of Canada to go down but I'll be returning to buffalo


----------



## Sue M

petunia said:


> Thanks, thought there was an announcement at 11
> 
> Really trying to plan for WDW in August, trying to decide if it is better to drive over and fly from Buffalo or just fly from here, or if there will be no difference at all...


For that reason I have air booked for Aug. I feel it’s the safer plan. But if things change with border I can change flights


----------



## Jrb1979

Pumpkin1172 said:


> I don'think that at all!!!
> 
> I had a gut feeling that wasn't going to happen.  Given that they give not reasoning as to what their benchamrks are for travelling.  They don't even want Canadians travelling for non-essential reasons, why would they just whip open the boarder for American travellers to come into Canada?  But at some point, they will need to open the boarder.  Hopefully the reason to their holdout if because they want more Canadian fully immunized.
> 
> I'm just tired of the flip flopping of wording and no benchmarks or points what they are looking at for their " plan" .  At this point, it seems like there really isn't a plan with all the flip flop rhetoric that has been flowing lately.


I understand what you are saying. I have this feeling the delay for reopening of the border has more to do with the US. Canada wants a vaccine passport in place and the US want no part of that. I think it's a big sticking point.


----------



## hdrolfe

There is some information here about what will lead to looser restrictions, in kind of general terms, but also speaking to the issues around AZ and US not recognizing it. 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-astrazeneca-travellers-1.6071320


----------



## Blue Belle Ballerina

petunia said:


> Thanks, thought there was an announcement at 11
> 
> Really trying to plan for WDW in August, trying to decide if it is better to drive over and fly from Buffalo or just fly from here, or if there will be no difference at all...


We're planning for our August trip as well....had planned on driving across the border and flying from the US but now I am dual planning for a Canadian departure as well.  Getting stressed, but will do whatever it takes to go!


----------



## pigletto

hdrolfe said:


> There is some information here about what will lead to looser restrictions, in kind of general terms, but also speaking to the issues around AZ and US not recognizing it.
> 
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-astrazeneca-travellers-1.6071320



This was reassuring . Particularly this ..
*
"We will definitely make sure that people who got one or two AstraZeneca doses will not be disadvantaged when they want to travel," 


"We hope to be able to resolve those issues in the coming weeks in time for bringing in loosened restrictions around travel. The U.S. hasn't said yet what their criteria will be. We're working with them to get on the same page."*

It makes me think we aren’t more than a month away from being able to travel more freely by using the words “coming weeks” . And obviously I’m very relieved that Astra Zeneca won’t hold us back in this process .


----------



## accm

I read an article that said Trudeau said we wouldn’t be opening the border until we reached 75% with first shot, and 20% fully vaccinated. But my question is, is that percentage of the eligible population? Or are we including everyone?
And what happens if we just don’t reach that? They’re just going to keep the border closed indefinitely? (I just went back and reread it, and it’s of the total population - which goes back to my question of, what if we don’t get to 75%? I looked at a graph for Ontario, and we’re plateauing on numbers of first shot. Not sure about other provinces)
I’ve been understanding of the tough decisions our leaders have had to make, even when I didn’t particularly agree with them. But I feel like we’re just moving farther and farther away from the science and being restrictive for the sake of being restrictive  

https://apple.news/Aq6OY2BoHSb6EFgz43d7J8w


----------



## accm

https://covid19tracker.ca/vaccinationtracker.html
the tracker is at the bottom of this page for anyone who’s interested


----------



## Mikey15

accm said:


> read an article that said Trudeau said we wouldn’t be opening the border until we reached 75% with first shot, and 20% fully vaccinated. But my question is, is that percentage of the eligible population? Or are we including everyone?



We’re at 75/20 of eligible as of today or tomorrow so I thought that statement sounded odd. But it will be two weeks before full protection for people getting theirs today so maybe that plays into it. Hard to say without the context.

75/75 we’re on track for end of July sothat part shouldn’t be an issue by the end of the current extension.


----------



## ellbell

accm said:


> I read an article that said Trudeau said we wouldn’t be opening the border until we reached 75% with first shot, and 20% fully vaccinated. But my question is, is that percentage of the eligible population? Or are we including everyone?
> And what happens if we just don’t reach that? They’re just going to keep the border closed indefinitely? (I just went back and reread it, and it’s of the total population - which goes back to my question of, what if we don’t get to 75%? I looked at a graph for Ontario, and we’re plateauing on numbers of first shot. Not sure about other provinces)
> I’ve been understanding of the tough decisions our leaders have had to make, even when I didn’t particularly agree with them. But I feel like we’re just moving farther and farther away from the science and being restrictive for the sake of being restrictive
> 
> https://apple.news/Aq6OY2BoHSb6EFgz43d7J8w


Basically those of us who got vaccinated are going to continue to be punished because we weren't successful in bullying the unvaccinated into changing their minds.


----------



## Jrb1979

ellbell said:


> Basically those of us who got vaccinated are going to continue to be punished because we weren't successful in bullying the unvaccinated into changing their minds.


I don't think so. By July we should be close to that. I am still of the belief the biggest issue is the vaccine passport.


----------



## ellbell

Jrb1979 said:


> I don't think so. By July we should be close to that. I am still of the belief the biggest issue is the vaccine passport.


I just don't see how nationally we are going to get to 75% of the total population vaccinated.  It just took 11 days to go up 5% of the eligible population getting their first shot and the percentage of the overall population with 1 shot is 65%. The rate of first vaccinations is going to stall any second now.


----------



## accm

ellbell said:


> I just don't see how nationally we are going to get to 75% of the total population vaccinated.  It just took 11 days to go up 5% of the eligible population getting their first shot and the percentage of the overall population with 1 shot is 65%. The rate of first vaccinations is going to stall any second now.


I agree. Looking at the graph I posted, so many any ranges have plateaued under the 75% mark. It’d be interesting to see if the raw data is downloadable and see at the rate people are getting their first shot, how long until we reach 75% of everyone.
I don’t think we’ll have an issue getting to 20% for second shot, but 75%? I doubt we’ll get that before kids under 12 can get vaccinated. And even then, I think a lot of parents are more hesitant about vaccinating their kids vs themselves


----------



## ottawamom

ellbell said:


> Basically those of us who got vaccinated are going to continue to be punished because we weren't successful in bullying the unvaccinated into changing their minds.


I find that statement harsh.


----------



## bababear_50

ellbell said:


> Basically those of us who got vaccinated are going to continue to be punished because we weren't successful in bullying the unvaccinated into changing their minds.



Nah
Those of us that got vaccinated are going to reap the reward of living & staying healthy during a Pandemic.
I personally thank my lucky stars a vaccine was even developed and that I was able to get it.
I'm so happy people were given the opportunity to make informed decisions around vaccination and that so many Canadians are stepping up to the plate to get them.
I have a great deal of faith in the Canadian people.

Hugs
Mel


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

*U.S. politicians fume over Canada's extended border restrictions*
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/us-canada-border-closed-reaction-1.6071737
One part I will highlight from it (at the bottom of article):

_She added a prediction: That the U.S. border will reopen to Canadian travel soon, either on June 22, or at the latest on July 22 — no matter what Canada does.

*"The U.S. isn't going to wait forever," Greenwood said. "Because the U.S. is ready. The U.S. is ready today."*_

While I appreciate the US's eagerness, not sure that attitude will earn points. Just because YOU say so, doesn't mean it should/will happen.  (regardless if it should or not).  I guess it just shows their level of frustration.

If they open unliterally, then we wouldn't need to test getting into the US.


----------



## Jrb1979

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> *U.S. politicians fume over Canada's extended border restrictions*
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/us-canada-border-closed-reaction-1.6071737
> One part I will highlight from it (at the bottom of article):
> 
> _She added a prediction: That the U.S. border will reopen to Canadian travel soon, either on June 22, or at the latest on July 22 — no matter what Canada does.
> 
> *"The U.S. isn't going to wait forever," Greenwood said. "Because the U.S. is ready. The U.S. is ready today."*_
> 
> While I appreciate the US's eagerness, not sure that attitude will earn points. Just because YOU say so, doesn't mean it should/will happen.  (regardless if it should or not).  I guess it just shows their level of frustration.
> 
> If they open unliterally, then we wouldn't need to test getting into the US.


I don't see how they open the border before both countries come to an agreement.


----------



## SleeplessInTO

Jrb1979 said:


> I don't see how they open the border before both countries come to an agreement.


Why not? You’ve always been able to fly into the US despite all the media reports here of the border being “closed”. Canada does not have any say in how another country determines who is allowed in. The US can reopen its borders to Canadians by land, sea, etc. without input from Canada.
Right now the US is being friendly. Or perhaps they wanted to use this as a negotiation point, where if Canada doesn’t let US residents in then they won’t allow Canadians in. But both can easily change.


----------



## ellbell

ottawamom said:


> I find that statement harsh.


Ok.


----------



## ellbell

SleeplessInTO said:


> Why not? You’ve always been able to fly into the US despite all the media reports here of the border being “closed”. Canada does not have any say in how another country determines who is allowed in. The US can reopen its borders to Canadians by land, sea, etc. without input from Canada.
> Right now the US is being friendly. Or perhaps they wanted to use this as a negotiation point, where if Canada doesn’t let US residents in then they won’t allow Canadians in. But both can easily change.


I agree that the US can open it's land bordet at anytime to Canadians.  Not many Canadians are going to drive across for a day trip though if they are still needing to test twice to come back.  A lot of people that drive across go to border towns to go shopping for a day or a weekend and it just won't be worth it until the Canadian government decides that fully vaccinated people don't need the tests.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

ellbell said:


> Basically those of us who got vaccinated are going to continue to be punished because we weren't successful in bullying the unvaccinated into changing their minds.


So maybe I wouldn’t word it this way, but what I think you are trying to say, or at least how I feel - they (meaning government) need to let those vaccinated move on with their lives and stop worrying about pleasing everyone. That will never happen. I agree that we were promised (for lack of better word) that life will return to normal if we get vaccinated and so that needs to happen and SOON. Those choosing not to get vaccinated can live with the consequences for now. 
At the end of the day even those that refused  vaccines will be safer thanks to all of us that got it. Their lives will also return mostly back to normal thanks to those that are vaccinated. But should they be more restricted at least for a year when it comes to travel, large gatherings? Yes absolutely. Should the rest of us be rewarded with more freedoms. Of course! Our government needs to realize this, hopefully they have already.


----------



## bcwife76

Opening the land border won't help border towns. I don't know about you all, but I'm not going to test twice and isolate just so I can go to Target. So day trips won't increase. This will help people who want to fly out of a US airport.


----------



## wdwmom3

I think we will hit the 75% mark.  Some areas are getting close.  And I think as people realize getting it will make it easier for them to do things like travel, some people who weren’t going to get it will.   Also I think some people just weren’t in a rush and are waiting until there was less demand to get one.  

I’ve also heard about some people who have reconsidered now that the delta variant is here.  Just look at Waterloo.  People want this over.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

It is still 75% single dose and 20% double dose, correct?  I thought I had heard it was 75% double, which would make sense eventually happening if 75% have a single dose, but it would definitely be towards Sept for that to happen....I think.


----------



## bcwife76

We have now reached 75%/20% today of eligible citizens.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

bcwife76 said:


> We have now reached 75%/20% today of eligible citizens.



Right, which is why I thought it was changed to 75% double since we already hit the initial target and they are not ready to open wide.

By extending the closure for another month, it just means more people will be double vaxxed and that percentage will go up even more.  I think they won't extend again after July 21.  By then they should have a certificate worked out for the app, and more double doses administered.  Hopefully the testing and quarantine will change in some form as well.


----------



## Sue M

ellbell said:


> I agree that the US can open it's land bordet at anytime to Canadians.  Not many Canadians are going to drive across for a day trip though if they are still needing to test twice to come back.  A lot of people that drive across go to border towns to go shopping for a day or a weekend and it just won't be worth it until the Canadian government decides that fully vaccinated people don't need the tests.


Border day tripper here!  I’ll be first in line up when Canada & US drop test requirements!  I miss my Trader Joe shopping!  And US Costco



HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> So maybe I wouldn’t word it this way, but what I think you are trying to say, or at least how I feel - they (meaning government) need to let those vaccinated move on with their lives and stop worrying about pleasing everyone. That will never happen. I agree that we were promised (for lack of better word) that life will return to normal if we get vaccinated and so that needs to happen and SOON. Those choosing not to get vaccinated can live with the consequences for now.
> At the end of the day even those that refused  vaccines will be safer thanks to all of us that got it. Their lives will also return mostly back to normal thanks to those that are vaccinated. But should they be more restricted at least for a year when it comes to travel, large gatherings? Yes absolutely. Should the rest of us be rewarded with more freedoms. Of course! Our government needs to realize this, hopefully they have already.


Absolutely.  Those of us who have been vaccinated should be able to have more freedoms including travel without multiple testing. I could see maybe a rapid test at airport, maybe.



wdwmom3 said:


> I think we will hit the 75% mark.  Some areas are getting close.  And I think as people realize getting it will make it easier for them to do things like travel, some people who weren’t going to get it will.   Also I think some people just weren’t in a rush and are waiting until there was less demand to get one.
> 
> I’ve also heard about some people who have reconsidered now that the delta variant is here.  Just look at Waterloo.  People want this over.


yes, just look at how Delta variant is traveling with the unvaccinated population, now the whole country has to pay for it in England With longer lockdown. I hope that doesn’t happen here. People’s personal choices don’t just affect them. It affects us all.


----------



## TommyJK

Sue M said:


> yes, just look at how Delta variant is traveling with the unvaccinated population, now the whole country has to pay for it in England With longer lockdown. I hope that doesn’t happen here. People’s personal choices don’t just affect them. It affects us all.



I think we're in better position just based on the high volume of vaccinations we have now vs. the UK.  We've hit 75% single 20% full of all eligible people and that second shot % is climbing by a bit over 1% a day, plus they're targeting hotspots aggresively to try and keep it at bay.  Not to mention the still slow/cautious re-opening stages still going on.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Canada's Vaccine Tracker:

https://covid19tracker.ca/vaccinationtracker.html
Shows we have: 
65.646% of the Canadian population has received at least one dose 
17.620% of the Canadian population is fully vaccinated 

Another month will allow us to hit the 75/20 targets.


----------



## ellbell

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> Canada's Vaccine Tracker:
> 
> https://covid19tracker.ca/vaccinationtracker.html
> Shows we have:
> 65.646% of the Canadian population has received at least one dose
> 17.620% of the Canadian population is fully vaccinated
> 
> Another month will allow us to hit the 75/20 targets.


Have you seen how slowly that 65% is moving.  It took 11 days to go from just over 60% to 65%.  We won't get to 75% (or if we do it will be September or October when it happens). Numbers have stopped moving any significant amount.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

I don't know why/where people are seeing we have already hit the targets though.  Is that website just not accurate?


----------



## ellbell

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> I don't know why/where people are seeing we have already hit the targets though.  Is that website just not accurate?


The difference is the percentage of the entire population vaccinated and the percentage of the eligible population vaccinated. The confusion lies on the ambiguity of what is actually needed because the goal post moves often. Originally it was of the eligible population and now it seems to be of the entire population.


----------



## Jrb1979

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> I don't know why/where people are seeing we have already hit the targets though.  Is that website just not accurate?


If you change it to eligible people it goes to 75% vaccinated.


----------



## Donald - my hero

ellbell said:


> Have you seen how slowly that 65% is moving.  It took 11 days to go from just over 60% to 65%.  We won't get to 75% (or if we do it will be September or October when it happens). Numbers have stopped moving any significant amount.


*our health unit sent out an urgent message to the community to sign up and get an appointment for their first jab Pronto a few weeks before we hit the timing window for 2nd shots to be given.  The reason being we've had to pivot to focusing more on those needing the 2nd jab within the time-frame originally set out and now that we've been declared a delta hot spot we've been moved to the accelerated time-frame meaning even fewer doses are available for first shots. 

I'm not sure if there would be any way to correlate the data to compare the percentages or not BUT if other areas in the country are following the same protocol that our health unit is it makes sense to me the rise in 1st doses appears to be slowing down while the percentage of fully vaccinated is quickly increasing *


----------



## ellbell

Donald - my hero said:


> *our health unit sent out an urgent message to the community to sign up and get an appointment for their first jab Pronto a few weeks before we hit the timing window for 2nd shots to be given.  The reason being we've had to pivot to focusing more on those needing the 2nd jab within the time-frame originally set out and now that we've been declared a delta hot spot we've been moved to the accelerated time-frame meaning even fewer doses are available for first shots.
> 
> I'm not sure if there would be any way to correlate the data to compare the percentages or not BUT if other areas in the country are following the same protocol that our health unit is it makes sense to me the rise in 1st doses appears to be slowing down while the percentage of fully vaccinated is quickly increasing *


I'd agree but they haven't stopped booking 1st doses. I know not everyone has access to the provincial systems but the majority do and the appointments go to either 1st or 2nd.  There would be no reason to not increase the number of people with partial protection because people with no are even more at risk than those partially protected.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

DD12 has hers on June 26 (1st dose) and DH didn't get one, so there are definitely people out there still getting first doses.


----------



## Jrb1979

ellbell said:


> Have you seen how slowly that 65% is moving.  It took 11 days to go from just over 60% to 65%.  We won't get to 75% (or if we do it will be September or October when it happens). Numbers have stopped moving any significant amount.


We are at the 75/20 number already. They only count eligible people.


----------



## Donald - my hero

ellbell said:


> I'd agree but they haven't stopped booking 1st doses. I know not everyone has access to the provincial systems but the majority do and the appointments go to either 1st or 2nd.  There would be no reason to not increase the number of people with partial protection because people with no are even more at risk than those partially protected.


*again I can only accurately comment on my health unit's activity which is why I mentioned that and added the funky lil shrug but we can't book first shots of we're looking for our 2nd AND my invite came today with a wonky link that only gives me the ability to choose a 1st shot but it won't let me book one of the few slots visible to me.  Hubby's link works properly however,  and it shows a bunch more times at the same places on the same day.  So at least in my area we don't have a many spots allocated for each dosage. Those of us in hotspots do need to be fully vaccinated BTW,  the Delta VOC is a real kicker and a single dose only provides about 30% protection, that's what's happening in Waterloo ☹

side note there are a LOT of people in the same situation with the wrong link  who are rightfully upset.  I already have an appointment booked on Monday at a Rexall but was curious about how many spots are available. *


----------



## TommyJK

Jrb1979 said:


> We are at the 75/20 number already. They only count eligible people.



That does indeed seem to be the benchmark (eligible vs. entire population).  This article from a few days ago seem to only be talking about the numbers in terms of eligible population:

https://www.cp24.com/news/canada-s-...roublesome-delta-variant-well-known-1.5471493


----------



## ellbell

Jrb1979 said:


> We are at the 75/20 number already. They only count eligible people.


Do you have a news article for this because last I heard it was total population


----------



## Jrb1979

ellbell said:


> Do you have a news article for this because last I heard it was total population


https://www.forbes.com/sites/sandra...ccinated-before-canada-us-border-reopens/amp/
In that article it does say 75% of people eligible.


----------



## ellbell

Jrb1979 said:


> https://www.forbes.com/sites/sandra...ccinated-before-canada-us-border-reopens/amp/
> In that article it does say 75% of people eligible.


That article is from over a month ago.  This one from yesterday says total population.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/beta.ctvnews.ca/national/coronavirus/2021/6/18/1_5476103.html


----------



## Jrb1979

ellbell said:


> That article is from over a month ago.  This one from yesterday says total population.
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/beta.ctvnews.ca/national/coronavirus/2021/6/18/1_5476103.html


I always thought they meant 75% of eligible people as kids under 12 can't get it yet.


----------



## ellbell

Jrb1979 said:


> I always thought they meant 75% of eligible people as kids under 12 can't get it yet.


Like I said moving goal post


----------



## TommyJK

ellbell said:


> That article is from over a month ago.  This one from yesterday says total population.
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/beta.ctvnews.ca/national/coronavirus/2021/6/18/1_5476103.html



I don't think I've ever heard/seen a quote from anyone in official capacity (be it Trudea, Tam, Blair etc.) state it definitively.  The article I posted above from this past Tuesday after Tam's last press conference says "eligible" over and over.  The one you posted says "total".

Until a gov't official says for certain one way or the other it's anyone's guess.  I can't find a definitive quote from anyone.  

Hopefully there will be clarity on Monday when they announce more details.


----------



## ellbell

TommyJK said:


> I don't think I've ever heard/seen a quote from anyone in official capacity (be it Trudea, Tam, Blair etc.) state it definitively.  The article I posted above from this past Tuesday after Tam's last press conference says "eligible" over and over.  The one you posted says "total".
> 
> Until a gov't official says for certain one way or the other it's anyone's guess.  I can't find a definitive quote from anyone.
> 
> Hopefully there will be clarity on Monday when they announce more details.


Hopefully, I watched Trudeau's spiel on Friday and it definitely didn't sound like eligible because by Friday we were pretty much there but they way he spoke made it sound like we were no where close.  He said that he doesn't want to open because vaccinated people can still spread it to the unvaccinated and until we had more numbers vaccinated he wasn't ready to loosen the border restrictions significantly.


----------



## wdwmom3

I suggest some people re-read the new guidelines.  You guys are gonna get the thread shut down.   Please leave your political opinions at the door.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

@wdwmom3 I will have to re-read them as well.

What did they post that was not allowed?  Just so I know for future so I don't post something similar.


----------



## pigletto

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> @wdwmom3 I will have to re-read them as well.
> 
> What did they post that was not allowed?  Just so I know for future so I don't post something similar.


It’s stickied at the top of the forum 

https://www.disboards.com/threads/disboards-covid-19-discussion-policy-effective-06-06-2021.3840666/


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Oh I see no vaccine chatter even if it relates to the border opening.  But I can see how that can get out of hand or off topic of travel.

I need a break until Monday's announcement anyways LOL   Information overload these days!


----------



## ellbell

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> Oh I see no vaccine chatter even if it relates to the border opening.  But I can see how that can get out of hand or off topic of travel.
> 
> I need a break until Monday's announcement anyways LOL   Information overload these days!


Vaccine policies can be discussed. Opinions can't be. Everything I've seen and posted has been on policy and just trying to clarify what the policy is.  Nobody is clear on it which is creating confusion.  Hopefully monday will clarify some of it.


----------



## wdwmom3

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> @wdwmom3 I will have to re-read them as well.
> 
> What did they post that was not allowed?  Just so I know for future so I don't post something similar.



Basically only thing allowed about covid is facts as they relate to travel.  No opinions.  

So all the debate about percentages and what the government is or not doing etc is not allowed.


----------



## wdwmom3

ellbell said:


> Vaccine policies can be discussed. Opinions can't be. Everything I've seen and posted has been on policy and just trying to clarify what the policy is.  Nobody is clear on it which is creating confusion.  Hopefully monday will clarify some of it.



Oh I’ve seen plenty of opinions.  I won’t single anyone out and name names though.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

@wdwmom3 yea, not really required to call people out.  Good call.


----------



## mamaofsix

Good article today on ctv concerning border re-opening:

"The National Hockey League gets an exemption not based on the science or the data, based on the Stanley Cup playoff schedule, that’s arbitrary,” he said. “It’s a slap in the face to families that have been separated for 15 months, for people who have not been able to visit, enjoy, maintain their properties for the past 15 months and it’s not good as it relates to U.S.-Canadian relations.” 

In a separate interview on CTV’s Question Period, President and CEO of the Business Council of Canada Goldy Hyder said the extension is “extremely disappointing” and shows a lack of preparation.  “This agreement is being renewed every month, this can’t just sneak up on anybody. We knew this day was going to come where more and more people are going to be vaccinated and they’re going to want to know what the benefits of that vaccination are,” he said. “The use of phrases like ‘we’re working on’ is very concerning and it erodes public confidence and it erodes business confidence.”

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/u-s...ion-on-reopening-border-with-canada-1.5476832


----------



## Sue M

wdwmom3 said:


> Basically only thing allowed about covid is facts as they relate to travel.  No opinions.
> 
> So all the debate about percentages and what the government is or not doing etc is not allowed.


But vaccine % and what govt is doing (without opinion) is directly related to travel isn’t it


----------



## Donald - my hero

Sue M said:


> But vaccine % and what govt is doing (without opinion) is directly related to travel isn’t it


*My understanding of the new guidelines is YES, we can discuss/report on what the current percentages are within our region, province and country as a statement of fact. However, adding comments as to what is contributing to those numbers (for example my stating that our region is currently booking 2nd shots in higher numbers than 1st due to our wonky system) and how we feel about how fast/slow/inconsistent the vaccine roll-out within different areas might be crossing the line ever-so-slightly. 

We can also keep each other informed as to what the factual goalposts have been set at so long as we don't register our displeasure over those and how we think they should or shouldn't be enforced. I think this would also include not sharing speculations??

I'm going to assume that this post is considered acceptable even though I'm sharing an understanding of the new guidelines (tongue planted firmly in my cheek here!!)*


----------



## TammyLynn33

mamaofsix said:


> Good article today on ctv concerning border re-opening:
> 
> "The National Hockey League gets an exemption not based on the science or the data, based on the Stanley Cup playoff schedule, that’s arbitrary,” he said. “It’s a slap in the face to families that have been separated for 15 months, for people who have not been able to visit, enjoy, maintain their properties for the past 15 months and it’s not good as it relates to U.S.-Canadian relations.”
> 
> In a separate interview on CTV’s Question Period, President and CEO of the Business Council of Canada Goldy Hyder said the extension is “extremely disappointing” and shows a lack of preparation.  “This agreement is being renewed every month, this can’t just sneak up on anybody. We knew this day was going to come where more and more people are going to be vaccinated and they’re going to want to know what the benefits of that vaccination are,” he said. “The use of phrases like ‘we’re working on’ is very concerning and it erodes public confidence and it erodes business confidence.”
> 
> https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/u-s...ion-on-reopening-border-with-canada-1.5476832



What they did by crossing was no difference than any other biz traveller still traveling across the borders. Yes no quarantine but daily tests sometimes multiple and  isolated amongst themselves. ( team plane , transportation , hotel , meals brought in to them etc ) they simply weren’t turned loose to “visit” it’s a biz / people’s careers .


----------



## ottawamom

mamaofsix said:


> We knew this day was going to come where more and more people are going to be vaccinated and they’re going to want to know what the benefits of that vaccination are,” he said.


The benefit of vaccinations are simple. We, the vaccinated, don't get seriously sick.


----------



## pixie_mtl

Hopefully we'll have a thoroughly-comprehensive- information from Trudeau's administration tomorrow. But if the plan is to keep Canada close up until after (possible) elections, I wish they'd just tell us so.


----------



## ellbell

pixie_mtl said:


> Hopefully we'll have a thoroughly-comprehensive- information from Trudeau's administration tomorrow. But if the plan is to keep Canada close up until after (possible) elections, I wish they'd just tell us so.


Haven't heard that particular theory before.


----------



## Sue M

I guess we’re all going to be glued to the TV news tomorrow!


----------



## bcwife76

Do we know what time the press conference takes place tomorrow?


----------



## Prince John Robin Hood

I don't know that an actual press conference is scheduled.  I believe they just said they'll announce minor changes.


----------



## TommyJK

Just heard on CTV news the announcement is expected for 10:00am tomorrow.  

No mention if it's a press conference or just a news release.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

I don't think we should expect much.  I think it will be confirmation on the hotel quarantine rules, rules for fully vaxxed, etc.

I read an article that the digital certification won't be ready until fall (conveniently) for non-essential travel, so I think anything they announce will be for families, property owners, etc.

Edit to add: I also keep reading that part of the issue is provinces still have travel bans / restrictions in place. I think the Feds are going to wait until all of the provinces are open to the country at least.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

I have my popcorn...


----------



## OnceUponATime15

Alberta fully open July 1st..  Saskatchewan on July 11th.  I’m guessing Ontario will head into phase two ahead of the projected date.  Slow progress is still progress.


----------



## OnceUponATime15

News conference on now Watching .. lots to take in


----------



## bbangel

Fully vaccinated with proof of vaccination to the ArriveCan app can skip quarantine but still require pre-departure and arrival testing. Kids of vaccinated parents skip the hotel quarantine (as of July 5) but still need to isolate at home. Still a strong recommendation for no non-essential travel


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Four people who will all repeat what the Minister said.

July 5 for fully vaxxed eligible travelers:

No hotel quarantine
No 14 day quarantine
No test on day 8 of return 
Still need pre- and on-arrival tests

That's pretty much it, correct?


----------



## TommyJK

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> Four people who will all repeat what the Minister said.
> 
> July 5 for fully vaxxed eligible travelers:
> 
> No hotel quarantine
> No 14 day quarantine
> No test on day 8 of return
> Still need pre- and on-arrival tests
> 
> That's pretty much it, correct?



That's how I understand it.


----------



## KNovacovschi

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> Four people who will all repeat what the Minister said.
> 
> July 5 for fully vaxxed eligible travelers:
> 
> No hotel quarantine
> No 14 day quarantine
> No test on day 8 of return
> Still need pre- and on-arrival tests
> 
> That's pretty much it, correct?



That’s how I’m reading it but what I’m wondering is if this includes land border as well?


----------



## wdwmom3

bbangel said:


> Fully vaccinated with proof of vaccination to the ArriveCan app can skip quarantine but still require pre-departure and arrival testing. Kids of vaccinated parents skip the hotel quarantine (as of July 5) but still need to isolate at home. Still a strong recommendation for no non-essential travel



I didn’t hear the parts about kids.  So say everyone else is vaccinated except a child.  Everyone would need testing and we can skip the hotel.  But the child has to quarantine at home for 2 weeks? What about the people who live with the child?


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

I don't think they specifically said land versus air.  That would be important info as well.


----------



## hdrolfe

wdwmom3 said:


> I didn’t hear the parts about kids.  So say everyone else is vaccinated except a child.  Everyone would need testing and we can skip the hotel.  But the child has to quarantine at home for 2 weeks? What about the people who live with the child?



Those arriving by air will also not be forced to stay at a government-authorized hotel and non-vaccinated children or dependent adults travelling with them will also be exempt from the hotel stay. 

That's the only note on children I have seen.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

@hdrolfe based on what you just said above, I assume this is for BOTH land and air?

Those arriving by air *will also *not be forced to stay at a government-authorized hotel and non-vaccinated children or dependent adults travelling with them will also be exempt from the hotel stay.


----------



## scorpsfan

I was also wondering if the pre-testing/post-testing is a thing at the land border as well?? I mean, it probably will be, but how... I didn't hear them mention that. I hate the fact we have to still do the covid testing. It's so expensive and adds to your trip. Anyone hear if that is going to get more affordable or not?? 
(Maybe it's just their way of discouraging people to travel even more!)


----------



## hdrolfe

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> @hdrolfe based on what you just said above, I assume this is for BOTH land and air?



The specifications in regards to children was for air travel, speaking about the hotel. So the kids don't have to go stay in a hotel by themselves... which is logical of course.


----------



## scorpsfan

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> @hdrolfe based on what you just said above, I assume this is for BOTH land and air?
> 
> Those arriving by air *will also *not be forced to stay at a government-authorized hotel and non-vaccinated children or dependent adults travelling with them will also be exempt from the hotel stay.



I heard that the child(ren) would have to isolate at home (for a week? did I hear that right?) but the parents (which assuming to be fully vaxxed) can leave the house and not isolate.


----------



## pigletto

Given that both the USA and Canada have said the land border closure is extended to July 21st , I am assuming none of this will apply at the land borders until at least that date .


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Oh wow, these reporters are on point today! 

Grilling them on fear mongering with the variant.

Edit to add: Vaccine passport by the end of 2021?


----------



## wdwmom3

scorpsfan said:


> I was also wondering if the pre-testing/post-testing is a thing at the land border as well?? I mean, it probably will be, but how... I didn't hear them mention that. I hate the fact we have to still do the covid testing. It's so expensive and adds to your trip. Anyone hear if that is going to get more affordable or not??
> (Maybe it's just their way of discouraging people to travel even more!)



If you listen to the press conference they repeated several times that the pre and on arrival testing was so they could study the positivity rates of travellers.  It could also help them identify any potential threats of new variants.  

While annoying this kind of makes sense.  If they see an increase of travellers from an area testing positive it could want them they need to do something.  

Just wish it was cheaper and easier.


----------



## KNovacovschi

I’m just so freakin excited that my DH can now come with me in September. I love my solo trips but my first trip back I would like my DH to be with me. I can do my solo trip in April.


----------



## ellbell

KNovacovschi said:


> That’s how I’m reading it but what I’m wondering is if this includes land border as well?


I can't imagine it wouldn't include land border since they already don't need to hotel quarantine and everything else is the same.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

wdwmom3 said:


> Just wish it was cheaper and easier.



They still don't want us traveling, that is why they haven't removed these key (costly) measures.


----------



## wdwmom3

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> They still don't want us traveling, that is why they haven't removed these key (costly) measures.



What is the cost of the on arrival test?


----------



## scorpsfan

wdwmom3 said:


> If you listen to the press conference they repeated several times that the pre and on arrival testing was so they could study the positivity rates of travellers.  It could also help them identify any potential threats of new variants.
> 
> While annoying this kind of makes sense.  If they see an increase of travellers from an area testing positive it could want them they need to do something.
> 
> Just wish it was cheaper and easier.



I totally get they have to trace it, for sure.
I'm mainly annoyed by the cost and hassle of the testing!! (especially when we will be fully vaccinated!)


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Oh and the kids thing is another way of keeping families from traveling.  Families can't leave kids under 12 home alone LOL


----------



## scorpsfan

wdwmom3 said:


> What is the cost of the on arrival test?



I thought they do an arrival test at the airport? The pre-travel 3 day result test is something like $200 a person!! Crazy.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

wdwmom3 said:


> What is the cost of the on arrival test?



Likely depends on where you land?  Halifax airport has free testing. I can get a test every single day if I want one for free.


----------



## DisDee1982

wdwmom3 said:


> I didn’t hear the parts about kids.  So say everyone else is vaccinated except a child.  Everyone would need testing and we can skip the hotel.  But the child has to quarantine at home for 2 weeks? What about the people who live with the child?



Adults who live with the quarantining child would not have to isolate


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

DisDee1982 said:


> Adults who live with the quarantining child would not have to isolate



But would you leave your small child home alone? No.


----------



## wdwmom3

DisDee1982 said:


> Adults who live with the quarantining child would not have to isolate



Do you have a link to this info.   I missed the part about kids.   If this is true we could possibly go in August and just my youngest would have to isolate at home.  Which is no big deal if others don’t have to.


----------



## wdwmom3

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> But would you leave your small child home alone? No.



Say you have more then one vaccinated person.  So like one parent or older vaccinated siblings could go do stuff like go to work etc.


----------



## Minniemoo15

My DH has to fly to the US for work next week. He is fully vaccinated and will stay a few days later to fly home on the 5th if it means he can skip quarantine.

So on his return … he takes a test pre-departure somewhere in the US. Then he flies to Montreal before connecting home to Halifax. Does he take his upon-arrival test in Montreal or Halifax ? Is this something he needs to arrange or will it be done by the airport ? Does he quarantine until he gets a negative result from that test ? TIA.


----------



## Dawg74

Just reading the information now, still not certain what this means for the land border and also, doesn’t the USA need to allow us in as well at the land border?  I understand you could fly, we were hoping to drive across and drive back


----------



## Jrb1979

Seeing the new rules in place for travel not much has changed other then not having to quarantine.  Still too many hoops to go through to travel. It's not worth it yet. It will only be worth it for me once the vaccine passport is in place and it being the only thing in the way of travel.


----------



## wdwmom3

Dawg74 said:


> Just reading the information now, still not certain what this means for the land border and also, doesn’t the USA need to allow us in as well at the land border?  I understand you could fly, we were hoping to drive across and drive back



The US extended their closure.  So no you would not be able to drive across right now.


----------



## TommyJK

Minniemoo15 said:


> … he takes a test pre-departure somewhere in the US. Then he flies to Montreal before connecting home to Halifax....



Just to clarify, he would need a negative test in the US before he'd be allowed to board the plane to return.  (wasn't sure if you were alluding to just taking the test vs. the need to also have the results back and be negative before departure).


----------



## Minniemoo15

TommyJK said:


> Just to clarify, he would need a negative test in the US before he'd be allowed to board the plane to return.  (wasn't sure if you were alluding to just taking the test vs. the need to also have the results back and be negative before departure).


Yes sorry his work has already arranged the pre departure testing and results. It’s the on arrival test I am confused about.


----------



## ellbell

The government of canada website states these rules are for land and air.

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-hea...-measures-for-travellers-entering-canada.html


----------



## Minniemoo15

ellbell said:


> The government of canada website states these rules are for land and air.
> 
> https://www.canada.ca/en/public-hea...-measures-for-travellers-entering-canada.html


thanks for that link. Of note : it only comes into effect July 5 at 11:59pm - so really only July 6. Glad I caught that - my DH was supposed to land July 5 at 10:00pm.


----------



## Pumpkin1172

Well, I think many of us knew what was going to be announced.  AT LEAST, this is a step in the right direction.  I knew that they weren't going to let everyone travel without any restrictions all " Willy, nilly" or "Hog wild" and just go about life the way we did pre-covid.  

Government officials have been called out on their policies, there is increasing pressure from inside from their governing peers, foreign countries, and lastly the people the govern.  Government officials keep moving the goal posts.   For months Tam's numbers she always pointed out that they were wanting to have a 70/20.  Slowly their rhetoric changed.  

I'm hoping that this is a step in the right direction, so that those of us who want to travel this fall/winter will be able to travel - especially if we have received our vaccinations. 

With the latest announcements, as least the playing field is level now for both land and air.  The pressure the received over the hotel quarantine for air travelers, needed to happen, for them to drop that part of the quarantine requirements.  I will say, it irked me a little that they were allowing people to just walk over the boarder, or get a care service to take them to their home and get through the land boarder that way with NO hotel quarantine.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

@Minniemoo15 Same question as I was asking over on the air travel policy thread.

He would need to test in Montreal then continue to Halifax (I am from Halifax!).   I have no idea if they are using rapid testing or what. Halifax airport is using the rapid tests, I believe.

BUT, a big but, what if his test in Montreal came back positive?  He would need to isolate in Montreal until he got  negative test. He would likely need to present a quarantine plan in Montreal FOR Montreal in case this happened.  This is how I am understanding all of this.


----------



## Jrb1979

Pumpkin1172 said:


> Well, I think many of us knew what was going to be announced.  AT LEAST, this is a step in the right direction.  I knew that they weren't going to let everyone travel without any restrictions all " Willy, nilly" or "Hog wild" and just go about life the way we did pre-covid.
> 
> Government officials have been called out on their policies, there is increasing pressure from inside from their governing peers, foreign countries, and lastly the people the govern.  Government officials keep moving the goal posts.   For months Tam's numbers she always pointed out that they were wanting to have a 70/20.  Slowly their rhetoric changed.
> 
> I'm hoping that this is a step in the right direction, so that those of us who want to travel this fall/winter will be able to travel - especially if we have received our vaccinations.
> 
> With the latest announcements, as least the playing field is level now for both land and air.  The pressure the received over the hotel quarantine for air travelers, needed to happen, for them to drop that part of the quarantine requirements.  I will say, it irked me a little that they were allowing people to just walk over the boarder, or get a care service to take them to their home and get through the land boarder that way with NO hotel quarantine.


I think by fall things will a lot more open border wise. I think the major hold up is the vaccine passport. Right now they are using the app but I think they want a more permanent thing.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

I am not traveling until November, so I am not as worried about my plans, but I am anxious for my fellow DIS'ers.


----------



## Minniemoo15

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> @Minniemoo15 Same question as I was asking over on the air travel policy thread.
> 
> He would need to test in Montreal then continue to Halifax (I am from Halifax!).   I have no idea if they are using rapid testing or what. Halifax airport is using the rapid tests, I believe.
> 
> BUT, a big but, what if his test in Montreal came back positive?  He would need to isolate in Montreal until he got  negative test. He would likely need to present a quarantine plan in Montreal FOR Montreal in case this happened.  This is how I am understanding all of this.


Good to know … so he better make sure to have a long layover in Montreal to await the test results. Worst case if it came back positive his work would cover him.  Man this is complicated ! He is supposed to come back on June 30th but was going to stick around until the 5th (now the 6th) to avoid the quarantaine. Maybe better just to come back as planned and do the 2 week quarantine at home.


----------



## TommyJK

Pumpkin1172 said:


> Government officials keep moving the goal posts.   For months Tam's numbers she always pointed out that they were wanting to have a 70/20.  Slowly their rhetoric changed.



Has somethng changed?  The previous announcements said 75/20 to start easing restrictions.  We've hit that and the restrictions are starting to ease.  Did I miss something that changed from before?


----------



## Pumpkin1172

Jrb1979 said:


> I think by fall things will a lot more open border wise. I think the major hold up is the vaccine passport. Right now they are using the app but I think they want a more permanent thing.


Yup...I believe they are holding off until that.  

But of course in true official government style, they are NOT prepared, and behind the ball again.  Sigh....it is frustrating just how behind the ball and unprepared they are.  And before someone says that he was waiting to go to the g& summit to " talk and discuss" about vaccine passports.  Their official stance has been that alllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll along.  They are always behind the ball.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

@Minniemoo15

Here is the link I could find to Montreal testing:

https://www.admtl.com/en/guide/tips/travel/covid-test
There might be more on the website I just couldn't find.


----------



## Pumpkin1172

TommyJK said:


> Has somethng changed? The previous announcements said 75/20 to start easing restrictions. We've hit that and the restrictions are starting to ease. Did I miss something that changed from before?


They had always said 70/20 for those who are eligible.  Now it's 75/20 for total population.  That's a HUGE difference of numbers, considering anyone under 12 can't get the vaccine.

Restrictions are lifting here in Alberta.  I was shocked to see us hit 70% for a first shot.  I really didn't think Alberta would hit that.  So yes, our restrictions are lifting here. 

BUT on a federal level, they flip flopped and have changed the goal posts.  I understand with the delta variant that they want to be cautious - and we do need to.  I am not disagreeing with that at all.  As more people get first and second shots here in Canada, we will have done better as a country than many other countries.  I just hope that people don't get discouraged and stop getting their shots, because the goal posts keep moving.

Edited to add;

First it was going to be a 2 shot summer, then that changed to a 1 shot cautious summer and a 2 shot fall, because the promised shipments were not coming in.  Goal posts moved again.  We had been promised alllllllllllll these gagillions of numbers of vaccines coming in...and really they trickled in until May.  Goal posts moved.  They have constantly moved them.


----------



## TommyJK

Pumpkin1172 said:


> They had always said 70/20 for those who are eligible.  Now it's 75/20 for total population.  That's a HUGE difference of numbers, considering anyone under 12 can't get the vaccine.



I had not seen anything saying 70/20 from before.  Here is an article from a month ago that states 75/20 to start easing.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/rbl-reopening-travel-borders-1.6038055
"The Public Health Agency of Canada (PHAC) is holding to its "aspirational" targets of vaccine coverage, saying that once 75 per cent of eligible Canadians have received one dose and 20 per cent are fully vaccinated, restrictions can* start* to be safely lifted."

And as I have noted before there is still confusion of the metric being "elligible" vs. "full population".  I have read many articles over the weeks with some stating elligle and some stating total population, but neither confirmed as being gospel.  Even in todays conference I had not heard any of the officials definitively state it one way or another.


----------



## Mikey15

Minniemoo15 said:


> My DH has to fly to the US for work next week. He is fully vaccinated and will stay a few days later to fly home on the 5th if it means he can skip quarantine.



Just to be clear, it's spelled out as 11:59pm ET on the 5th. In other words, the new rules are in effect on the 6th, though there's some time zone considerations.

I'm not sure why it's framed that way instead of saying "the 6th," but I wouldn't want to book a flight back on the 5th and then be surprised!


----------



## Pumpkin1172

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> I am not traveling until November, so I am not as worried about my plans, but I am anxious for my fellow DIS'ers.


I feel the same!  

For those who have travel plans sooner rather than later, I hope that once our #'s of shots and second shots increase, that we will see boarder restrictions ease even more - especially of anyone in your household who is eligible to get one, has their second dose.  

The announcement today, gives me a little hope that they know we are unsettled and want to travel again.  It makes me hopeful that  I may be able to plan a last minute nascar race weekend birthday surprise for DH.


----------



## bcwife76

Ok so just so I understand this correctly:
If we choose to go to Mexico in August with our two kids (13 yr old will be fully vaxxed, 10 yr old will not):

-no pre departure test as Mexico does not require them
-test with a PCR test (have check with hotel we want to book, they are $125US a test and can be done at the hotel, the concierge arranges it for us) 72hrs before departure
-test again at YVR
-everyone isolates til negative test comes back (1-3 days), 10yr old quarantines at home regardless. 
-dh and I and 13 yr old can come and go as we please after negative test, 10 yr old stays home but can roam around the HOUSE, just not LEAVE the house? And obvs I am NOT leaving my 10yr old home alone, if I need to go out to the store or whatnot, my 13yr old stays with her. 

Am I missing anything? Did I get anything wrong?


----------



## Jrb1979

bcwife76 said:


> Ok so just so I understand this correctly:
> If we choose to go to Mexico in August with our two kids (13 yr old will be fully vaxxed, 10 yr old will not):
> 
> -no pre departure test as Mexico does not require them
> -test with a PCR test (have check with hotel we want to book, they are $125US a test and can be done at the hotel, the concierge arranges it for us) 72hrs before departure
> -test again at YVR
> -everyone isolates til negative test comes back (1-3 days), 10yr old quarantines at home regardless.
> -dh and I and 13 yr old can come and go as we please after negative test, 10 yr old stays home but can roam around the HOUSE, just not LEAVE the house? And obvs I am NOT leaving my 10yr old home alone, if I need to go out to the store or whatnot, my 13yr old stays with her.
> 
> Am I missing anything? Did I get anything wrong?


That's the jist of it. Due to all those hoops to jump through its not worth it to travel. Til they drop the testing and waiting for negative test I'm not going anywhere. 

If it was winter then maybe I would go through all of that. Since it's summer and we have nice weather here, I will vacation here instead.


----------



## flav

bcwife76 said:


> Ok so just so I understand this correctly:
> If we choose to go to Mexico in August with our two kids (13 yr old will be fully vaxxed, 10 yr old will not):
> 
> -no pre departure test as Mexico does not require them
> -test with a PCR test (have check with hotel we want to book, they are $125US a test and can be done at the hotel, the concierge arranges it for us) 72hrs before departure
> -test again at YVR
> -everyone isolates til negative test comes back (1-3 days), 10yr old quarantines at home regardless.
> -dh and I and 13 yr old can come and go as we please after negative test, 10 yr old stays home but can roam around the HOUSE, just not LEAVE the house? And obvs I am NOT leaving my 10yr old home alone, if I need to go out to the store or whatnot, my 13yr old stays with her.
> 
> Am I missing anything? Did I get anything wrong?


That is my understanding of the announcement and the rules as well.


----------



## Mikey15

Pumpkin1172 said:


> They had always said 70/20 for those who are eligible. Now it's 75/20 for total population.



Who, and when? 

In April, public health said things could _start _being safely eased around 75/20 of eligible, which was 18+ at the time. Then 12+ became eligible and everyone's just stuck with % of eligible. I have not seen a government official tie anything to a threshold of 75/20 of total.

70/20 was never a thing federally (federal govt being in charge of border rules) though some provinces chose 70 as their threshold instead of 75 for their own reopening policies. Not relevant to land border.


----------



## bcwife76

Jrb1979 said:


> That's the jist of it. Due to all those hoops to jump through its not worth it to travel. Til they drop the testing and waiting for negative test I'm not going anywhere.
> 
> If it was winter then maybe I would go through all of that. Since it's summer and we have nice weather here, I will vacation here instead.


Ideally I would like to wait til November as well but if they are STILL isolating kids who aren't vaccinated (hoping they have one available by then but being realistic) then we absolutely cannot go as I don't want her missing 2 weeks of school on top of whatever time they would miss to go on vacation.


----------



## TommyJK

bcwife76 said:


> Ok so just so I understand this correctly:
> If we choose to go to Mexico in August with our two kids (13 yr old will be fully vaxxed, 10 yr old will not):
> 
> -no pre departure test as Mexico does not require them
> -test with a PCR test (have check with hotel we want to book, they are $125US a test and can be done at the hotel, the concierge arranges it for us) 72hrs before departure
> -test again at YVR
> -everyone isolates til negative test comes back (1-3 days), 10yr old quarantines at home regardless.
> -dh and I and 13 yr old can come and go as we please after negative test, 10 yr old stays home but can roam around the HOUSE, just not LEAVE the house? And obvs I am NOT leaving my 10yr old home alone, if I need to go out to the store or whatnot, my 13yr old stays with her.
> 
> Am I missing anything? Did I get anything wrong?



This all looks correct assuming that no further border measures will change in any way by August.  

There is always the chance that either a) something goes wrong on the virus front and they re-tighten the borders or b) things go well and they further ease the border by then.


----------



## hdrolfe

bcwife76 said:


> Ok so just so I understand this correctly:
> If we choose to go to Mexico in August with our two kids (13 yr old will be fully vaxxed, 10 yr old will not):
> 
> -no pre departure test as Mexico does not require them
> -test with a PCR test (have check with hotel we want to book, they are $125US a test and can be done at the hotel, the concierge arranges it for us) 72hrs before departure
> -test again at YVR
> -everyone isolates til negative test comes back (1-3 days), 10yr old quarantines at home regardless.
> -dh and I and 13 yr old can come and go as we please after negative test, 10 yr old stays home but can roam around the HOUSE, just not LEAVE the house? And obvs I am NOT leaving my 10yr old home alone, if I need to go out to the store or whatnot, my 13yr old stays with her.
> 
> Am I missing anything? Did I get anything wrong?



I don't think the three of you who are vaccinated need to isolate when you return? Can someone point out where it says you have to do this?

And you need to provide proof that you are vaccinated of course.


----------



## flav

In the video attached to the following article (everything is in French so I translate loosely), Quebec PM Legault says that all provincial PM met last Thursday and also with PM Trudeau, and they agree to open the borders, starting with the US in early July, *if* travellers have a proof of full vaccination.

Article de La Presse : La quarantaine passe à la trappe
https://lp.ca/fWJiRT?sharing=true


----------



## bcwife76

hdrolfe said:


> I don't think the three of you who are vaccinated need to isolate when you return? Can someone point out where it says you have to do this?
> 
> And you need to provide proof that you are vaccinated of course.


I think the 3 of us who are/will be fully vaccinated just need to isolate until we get our negative tests back from landing at YVR?


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

@bcwife76 that was said initially before today's announcement, but I don't recall the Minister mentioned isolating for the 1-3 days.  Pretty sure she said NO quarantine.


----------



## ellbell

bcwife76 said:


> I think the 3 of us who are/will be fully vaccinated just need to isolate until we get our negative tests back from landing at YVR?


The link that I posted earlier for the government site said only need to quarantine IF you test upon arrival is positive


----------



## spewey

In today's announcement was there any mention made of Bill Blair saying in his interview yesterday that Canada need 75% of the population *fully *vaccinated before all restrictions could be lifted?

That's a seriously high bar. I get that the "easing" will be taking place soon, but as others point out the coordination and expense of the testing is a significant barrier to travel.


----------



## Juventus

bcwife76 said:


> Ok so just so I understand this correctly:
> If we choose to go to Mexico in August with our two kids (13 yr old will be fully vaxxed, 10 yr old will not):
> 
> -no pre departure test as Mexico does not require them
> -test with a PCR test (have check with hotel we want to book, they are $125US a test and can be done at the hotel, the concierge arranges it for us) 72hrs before departure
> -test again at YVR
> -everyone isolates til negative test comes back (1-3 days), 10yr old quarantines at home regardless.
> -dh and I and 13 yr old can come and go as we please after negative test, 10 yr old stays home but can roam around the HOUSE, just not LEAVE the house? And obvs I am NOT leaving my 10yr old home alone, if I need to go out to the store or whatnot, my 13yr old stays with her.
> 
> Am I missing anything? Did I get anything wrong?


One small thing:  once you land in canada, if you are fully vaxxed, you may not have to quarantine at all, even waiting for the test results.  This will be determined when you land: quote from CTV news:

Travellers will have to have an adequate quarantine plan in place in case border agents determine a period of self-isolation is required,


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

spewey said:


> That's a seriously high bar. I get that the "easing" will be taking place soon, but as others point out the coordination and expense of the testing is a significant barrier to travel.



And the Feds know this. This is how they will control the traveling until they want us to.


----------



## TommyJK

spewey said:


> In today's announcement was there any mention made of Bill Blair saying in his interview yesterday that Canada need 75% of the population *fully *vaccinated before all restrictions could be lifted?
> 
> That's a seriously high bar. I get that the "easing" will be taking place soon, but as others point out the coordination and expense of the testing is a significant barrier to travel.



Well, it will depend on what metric they use.  Eligible population vs. Entire population.

If it's eligible, we will likely hit that number by the end of July/early August.  If entire population it would likely be sometime in the fall (if we can even hit 75% of entire population).


----------



## bcwife76

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> @bcwife76 that was said initially before today's announcement, but I don't recall the Minister mentioned isolating for the 1-3 days.  Pretty sure she said NO quarantine.





ellbell said:


> The link that I posted earlier for the government site said only need to quarantine IF you test upon arrival is positive





Juventus said:


> One small thing:  once you land in canada, if you are fully vaxxed, you may not have to quarantine at all, even waiting for the test results.  This will be determined when you land: quote from CTV news:
> 
> Travellers will have to have an adequate quarantine plan in place in case border agents determine a period of self-isolation is required,


See, this is why I LOVE our CDN disboards. You guys are the best! Somehow I missed this part! I mean, it's not 100% that you won't have to isolate for 1-3 days, but I guess it's just up to the border guards once you arrive. And I'm ok with that. Thanks again!!


----------



## OnceUponATime15

I watched the presser, I’m sure that Bill Blair said that non essential travel is not open yet(?) Did I miss something else that was said? 

As I understood, the changes  only apply for essential travel(ers) in the next phase of reopening. 

from news watch.com

_“The federal government is easing some restrictions at the Canada-U.S. border, but the biggest changes apply only to those already eligible to cross.”_


----------



## Jrb1979

OnceUponATime15 said:


> I watched the presser, I’m sure that Bill Blair said that non essential travel is not open yet(?) Did I miss something else that was said?
> 
> As I understood, the changes  only apply for essential travel(ers) in the next phase of reopening.
> 
> from news watch.com
> 
> _“The federal government is easing some restrictions at the Canada-U.S. border, but the biggest changes apply only to those already eligible to cross.”_


Makes sense as the border is closed til July 22. I don't much changing before then.


----------



## OnceUponATime15

Jrb1979 said:


> Makes sense as the border is closed til July 22. I don't much changing before then.



Makes sense.  I was multitasking at the time of the news conference and thought I’d missed something…  I’m just doing a google search to catch up on anything I didn’t get on tv.


----------



## scorpsfan

I wonder what it will look like on July 22? Will they then say open for non-essential travel from both sides? How will the rules apply for the unvaccinated I wonder. They already know all this, and it's frustrating they don't/won't tell us any re-opening plans much beforehand, like when we can expect to return to normalcy (somewhat) It would help if they did because it might get more of the anti-vaxxers to get their shots if they knew what was coming. Another thing is, why haven't they STILL not told us what we can and can't do once fully vaccinated?? I think that is long overdue at this point.


----------



## scorpsfan

Where do you get a covid test in Orlando (preferably near Disney) anyway? Does it cost anything for Canadians? 

Has anyone done all this hoopla to travel?? lol


----------



## Jrb1979

scorpsfan said:


> I wonder what it will look like on July 22? Will they then say open for non-essential travel from both sides? How will the rules apply for the unvaccinated I wonder. They already know all this, and it's frustrating they don't/won't tell us any re-opening plans much beforehand, like when we can expect to return to normalcy (somewhat) It would help if they did because it might get more of the anti-vaxxers to get their shots if they knew what was coming. Another thing is, why haven't they STILL not told us what we can and can't do once fully vaccinated?? I think that is long overdue at this point.


It's already been hinted at that a vaccine passport will be required to enter into Canada.   They can only say so much as they are also working with the US as well in regards to opening 

That's up to each province for what fully vaccinated can do.


----------



## Mikey15

OnceUponATime15 said:


> I watched the presser, I’m sure that Bill Blair said that non essential travel is not open yet(?) Did I miss something else that was said?
> 
> As I understood, the changes only apply for essential travel(ers) in the next phase of reopening.
> 
> from news watch.com
> 
> _“The federal government is easing some restrictions at the Canada-U.S. border, but the biggest changes apply only to those already eligible to cross.”_



There's two separate but related topics:

-Land border closure to non-essential travel - this was extended on Friday to "at least" July 21 11:59pm
&
-Arrival procedures & quarantines for people coming to Canada - these will change July 5 11:59pm

Changing one doesn't change the other. 

That being said if you are in a group that can already travel across the land border, like a dual national, you benefit from the quarantine changes even if the land border remains "closed." And people who are flying Canada<->US benefit from the changes too.


----------



## OnceUponATime15

From the toronto star…  clearest explanation i’ve read



https://apple.news/AsdGQuUQJTS6xyNaZ5AvGUg


----------



## ellbell

OnceUponATime15 said:


> I watched the presser, I’m sure that Bill Blair said that non essential travel is not open yet(?) Did I miss something else that was said?
> 
> As I understood, the changes  only apply for essential travel(ers) in the next phase of reopening.
> 
> from news watch.com
> 
> _“The federal government is easing some restrictions at the Canada-U.S. border, but the biggest changes apply only to those already eligible to cross.”_


While nobody can cross from Canada to the US by the land border for non essential reasons.  Those that are in Canada are and have always been allowed to fly over for any reason.  These rules affect those coming back to Canada.  Any Canadian citizen and a few others are now able to return to Canada without the quarantine if they are fully vaccinated without quarantine regardless of the reason they left.


----------



## spewey

I guess my concern with the 75% fully vaxxed is the power it gives over the entire process to those who choose not to get it. I want to be clear (and careful) - I absolutely support personal choice in health matters, and understand hesitancy within some groups, for lots of reasons. It just becomes tricky when one's choice affects another's.

I would imagine, though, a pivot from "negative messaging" (get the vaccine so you *won't *get sick) to positive messaging (get the vaccine so you *can *BLANK), even if at this point it only affects a few, will help convince some on the fence to get their shot.


----------



## hdrolfe

Hasn't "75% vaccinated" been the "herd immunity" goal for awhile? I thought that was the goal. Whether we get there or not is a debate, but I thought it was the goal.


----------



## ottawamom

@wdwmom3 The cost of the arrival test? from the Toronto Pearson web page:

https://www.torontopearson.com/en/h...sting-at-toronto-pearson/arriving-into-canada
Travellers are not charged for their arrivals test at Toronto Pearson, but there is a cost associated with the required booking of a government authorized hotel where you wait until receiving your test results. The federal government has listed these hotels on their website, where you can get a quote and book your stay.


----------



## bcwife76

OnceUponATime15 said:


> From the toronto star…  clearest explanation i’ve read
> 
> 
> 
> https://apple.news/AsdGQuUQJTS6xyNaZ5AvGUg


Behind a paywall/I don't have an apple product so can't read it.


----------



## wdwmom3

ottawamom said:


> @wdwmom3 The cost of the arrival test? from the Toronto Pearson web page:
> 
> https://www.torontopearson.com/en/h...sting-at-toronto-pearson/arriving-into-canada
> Travellers are not charged for their arrivals test at Toronto Pearson, but there is a cost associated with the required booking of a government authorized hotel where you wait until receiving your test results. The federal government has listed these hotels on their website, where you can get a quote and book your stay.



Thanks!


----------



## TommyJK

Trudeau Press Conference going on right now.  As it relates to the border he's mostly just re-iterated what was announced yesterday.   But one thing that is possibly promising.  He noted when re-iterating the things announced yesterday that "now over 75% of *eligible* Canadians have had their first shot and over 20% have been fully vaccinated" which hopefully alludes to that they are using that metric method (eligible as opposed to total) when they consider their next stages.


----------



## Pumpkin1172

TommyJK said:


> Trudeau Press Conference going on right now. As it relates to the border he's mostly just re-iterated what was announced yesterday. But one thing that is possibly promising. He noted when re-iterating the things announced yesterday that "now over 75% of *eligible* Canadians have had their first shot and over 20% have been fully vaccinated" which hopefully alludes to that they are using that metric method (eligible as opposed to total) when they consider their next stages.


That is encouraging!!!!  Hopefully going forward they will use that wording to avoid confusion.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

They better tell Tam that then!


----------



## bbangel

In Nova Scotia we have always been using population not eligible - we have reached 71% of population with first dose


----------



## bcwife76

Eligible is absolutely reasonable!!  He also stated that lifting of restrictions/phased approaches to reopening borders and travel will happen in WEEKS not months. He stressed that several times.Also, a good sign. Of course, he didn't elaborate on how many phases there will be but I think we can assume there will be at least two more.


----------



## TommyJK

bcwife76 said:


> Eligible is absolutely reasonable!!  He also stated that lifting of restrictions/phased approaches to reopening borders and travel will happen in WEEKS not months. He stressed that several times.Also, a good sign. Of course, he didn't elaborate on how many phases there will be but I think we can assume there will be at least two more.



I mean, in hindsight I think it's perhaps always been "eligible".  If we break down the facts:

- A month ago they said they'd start easing restrictions when we hit 75/20 (although not specifically saying whether that meant eligible or total population)
- This past Friday we hit 75/20 of eligible, but only 66/17 of total population.
- Yesterday they announced the first round of restrictions that are easing.

So regardless of how the media has been reporting it (where it seems to be an equal speculation of some saying eligible, some saying total population), the actual actions that have been taken align to eligible.


----------



## DisDee1982

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> But would you leave your small child home alone? No.


Of course not - this made perfect sense to me - vaccinated parents can come and go as they please.  In our case, my husband no longer has to take time off when we return from vacation, I'll work from home and stay with my 10 year old while he isolates.  The point is that the vaccinated family members are not in isolation, only the unvaccinated.


----------



## Marek Zyskowski

Monday's announcement was not clear at all.


----------



## bgula

I'm curious why people don't just do the free testing?  My son did it before traveling to Oklahoma - no problem.  Is it just the worry that you won't get the results in time?


----------



## bcwife76

bgula said:


> I'm curious why people don't just do the free testing?  My son did it before traveling to Oklahoma - no problem.  Is it just the worry that you won't get the results in time?


A free test to enter the US? That doesn't exist, not in BC anyway. If you need a Covid test for travel you have to pay for it. The cost varies.


----------



## tlcdoula

bcwife76 said:


> A free test to enter the US? That doesn't exist, not in BC anyway. If you need a Covid test for travel you have to pay for it. The cost varies.


I looked online for Bc and could only find one place near me and it was $300 plus tax per person.  Yikes.


----------



## bcwife76

tlcdoula said:


> I looked online for Bc and could only find one place near me and it was $300 plus tax per person.  Yikes.


I have seen cheaper in BC (closer to $200 and I think testing at YVR might be even less). But definitely not free.


----------



## Sue M

bcwife76 said:


> I have seen cheaper in BC (closer to $200 and I think testing at YVR might be even less). But definitely not free.


Yvr is cheapest ive found too. Fly Clear is a rip off.


----------



## Sue M

bgula said:


> I'm curious why people don't just do the free testing?  My son did it before traveling to Oklahoma - no problem.  Is it just the worry that you won't get the results in time?


If we had free testing in BC for travel I’d do that.


----------



## newdeal

maybe one day they will allow the antigen rapid test because those they are giving away for free to many businesses (although I don't think uptake has been very good on that).

Regardless, the 75/20 they were referring to was not eligible or total.  It was ADULTS.  So 18+.  You can see that right on their modelling slides https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/p...canada-epidemiology-modelling-20210423-en.pdf

you will notice that the modelling shows hospitalizations over the threshold not until late fall.  Therefore the two week wait between shot and immune response doesn't come into play which is why the guidelines were always based on people who got the shot, not people who got the shot plus two weeks.  The modelling slide is also clear on this, it says based on lifting when 20% received second dose, not when 20% fully immunized.  The doctors are also now wishy washy on that as well even though the science was ever based on waiting two weeks, just the number of people who got the shot.

the reason it is adults is because they are counting what matters which is hospitalizations, not cases.  Even unvaccinated kids 12-18 getting covid are not ending up in the hospital so their vax numbers don't come into play in a world where we are using logic and science rather than fear and control.  Unfortunately the doctors are afraid so they keep being wishy washy when it comes to implementing their own science.

Also the modelling takes opening the border into account

The model assumes 4 weeks after restrictive measures are lifting, the border reopens and the number of imported cases increases from 2 per 100,000 per week to 12 per 100,000 based on current reduction in travel volume due to border restrictions, imported cases are estimated from the PHAC importation model;

This modelling was before delta, they haven't updated it since


----------



## mamaofsix

bgula said:


> I'm curious why people don't just do the free testing?  My son did it before traveling to Oklahoma - no problem.  Is it just the worry that you won't get the results in time?


Not sure what Province you're in, but it's $200 in Ontario.  My guess is that if your son was traveling for essential business purposes, his place of employment paid for the test.

Also, this thread is about the land border re-opening to non-essential travelers (which it has not yet).   I'm guessing your son flew down?


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Will we hit the targets faster if it is eligible or population. I'm confused.


----------



## bgula

mamaofsix said:


> Not sure what Province you're in, but it's $200 in Ontario.  My guess is that if your son was traveling for essential business purposes, his place of employment paid for the test.
> 
> Also, this thread is about the land border re-opening to non-essential travelers (which it has not yet).   I'm guessing your son flew down?



I'm talking about the regular tests which are free.  My son went to visit his girlfriend.  He had no problem getting on his flight in Toronto.


----------



## wdwmom3

bgula said:


> I'm talking about the regular tests which are free.  My son went to visit his girlfriend.  He had no problem getting on his flight in Toronto.



You are not supposed to use those for travelling.   Those are to be used if you suspect you have covid or is a requirement for your work etc.  

If everyone travelling did that it would take longer for everyone to get results.  Most importantly those who need to know because of symptoms etc.

Also kind of not great that you are using something paid for by taxes to help you travel.


----------



## wdwmom3

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> Will we hit the targets faster if it is eligible or population. I'm confused.



Eligible.   If it’s population you need a larger number vaccinated because kids can’t be.


----------



## Sue M

wdwmom3 said:


> You are not supposed to use those for travelling.   Those are to be used if you suspect you have covid or is a requirement for your work etc.
> 
> If everyone travelling did that it would take longer for everyone to get results.  Most importantly those who need to know because of symptoms etc.
> 
> Also kind of not great that you are using something paid for by taxes to help you travel.


Exactly right. Plus I believe you need a report you can download or print containing certain info. I’ve had to get a couple of tests due to possible exposure and all I got was a text message saying negative. I think the border needs something more.


----------



## ellbell

bgula said:


> I'm talking about the regular tests which are free.  My son went to visit his girlfriend.  He had no problem getting on his flight in Toronto.


You have to meet certain criteria to have a test done.  Travel is not a valid reason so if he did that then he lied to get it done.


----------



## 2Lunds

bgula said:


> I'm curious why people don't just do the free testing?  My son did it before traveling to Oklahoma - no problem.  Is it just the worry that you won't get the results in time?


In MB you are only able to get a "free" test if you are symptomatic, and you have to call a number to be screened and get an appointment.  Those test results are not applicable for travel, so even if you fibbed to get the test, you couldn't use it.


----------



## jcourtney

ellbell said:


> You have to meet certain criteria to have a test done.  Travel is not a valid reason so if he did that then he lied to get it done.


I'm pretty sure that in SK we can just drive up and get a test, no reasons needed. Is that not true in other provinces? 
I don't know for sure if this test qualifies for travel requirements (I suspect it would) or if you can get a print out of your results (maybe on ehealth?), but you certainly don't need to lie to get it.


----------



## tlcdoula

bcwife76 said:


> I have seen cheaper in BC (closer to $200 and I think testing at YVR might be even less). But definitely not free.


Let me know if you see anything for the island that is cheaper.  I will keep peeking around.   I am fine getting the test and it actually makes me feel a little better about flying knowing that we are all being tested first.  Just need to save what I can to spend at Disney.  I might need a second suitcase to make up for lost trips and shopping


----------



## ellbell

jcourtney said:


> I'm pretty sure that in SK we can just drive up and get a test, no reasons needed. Is that not true in other provinces?
> I don't know for sure if this test qualifies for travel requirements (I suspect it would) or if you can get a print out of your results (maybe on ehealth?), but you certainly don't need to lie to get it.


In Ontario it is for sure not true.  You have to have been exposed in someway or have symptoms which automatically makes you not ok to travel.


----------



## TammyLynn33

ellbell said:


> In Ontario it is for sure not true.  You have to have been exposed in someway or have symptoms which automatically makes you not ok to travel.



or for work.. LTC homes and community homes and workers still have a lot of staff required to be tested in a regular basis. ( they would not have symptoms nor have been exposed)


----------



## ellbell

TammyLynn33 said:


> or for work.. LTC homes and community homes and workers still have a lot of staff required to be tested in a regular basis. ( they would not have symptoms nor have been exposed)


I never even considered those.  I would have assumed that they would be getting tested at work so that they aren't using their offtime to get tests


----------



## TammyLynn33

ellbell said:


> I never even considered those.  I would have assumed that they would be getting tested at work so that they aren't using their offtime to get tests



iev had friends coming back from mat leave etc or  starting new jobs or unwilling to get up to go back to their place of employment after working nights and they only test in the mornings.. lots of reasons ..


----------



## ellbell

TammyLynn33 said:


> iev had friends coming back from mat leave etc or  starting new jobs or unwilling to get up to go back to their place of employment after working nights and they only test in the mornings.. lots of reasons ..


Ok but my point was is travel is not one of the reasons.


----------



## wdwmom3

ellbell said:


> Ok but my point was is travel is not one of the reasons.



Yep.  I’ve had testing done and so has my daughter because of symptoms.  If you wanted a test for travel you would have to lie about the reason.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

NS we can get a PCR or rapid test no questions asked.  We have TONS of free testing.  They actually encourage people to get tested weekly.

We have appointment-based and walk-in pop up testing for those without any symptoms.


----------



## wdwmom3

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> NS we can get a PCR or rapid test no questions asked.  We have TONS of free testing.  They actually encourage people to get tested weekly.
> 
> We have appointment-based and walk-in pop up testing for those without any symptoms.



At one point you could get tested for any reason.  It led to long lines or having to wait a couple days for an appointment, and it led to a backlog in results.  So people were waiting sometimes 4-5 days for results.  Not good when you think you may actually have covid.


----------



## TammyLynn33

ellbell said:


> Ok but my point was is travel is not one of the reasons.



I was simply answering your “ I assumed they would be getting tested at work “ comment . Trying to explain why . Sorry for explaining


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

NS had reached 20,000 PCR tests in a day, PLUS the pop-up rapid testing at the height of wave 3. 

I have never had a test take more than 48 hours to get the results, but I know many had to wait longer than that.

At this point in time, I would have no concern of getting results back within 72 hours if I needed one for travel.


----------



## Sue M

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> NS we can get a PCR or rapid test no questions asked.  We have TONS of free testing.  They actually encourage people to get tested weekly.
> 
> We have appointment-based and walk-in pop up testing for those without any symptoms.


I heard that, I have friends in NS who get tested routinely.

Here in the lower mainland of BC it’s walk in now and you just fill in the form, they ask you if you have symptoms or possible exposure and get the test. I’ve had to be tested twice, for possible exposure- my daughter works in a daycare.  Usually get results in 24hrs.  In the beginning it was more of an ordeal to get tested, with phoning, waiting for a doctor to call you back, make appt, long waits ugh. They really streamlined process now.


----------



## Sue M

bcwife76 said:


> See, this is why I LOVE our CDN disboards. You guys are the best! Somehow I missed this part! I mean, it's not 100% that you won't have to isolate for 1-3 days, but I guess it's just up to the border guards once you arrive. And I'm ok with that. Thanks again!!


I don’t want to bank on what side of the bed the border guard got up on!


----------



## Donald - my hero

Sue M said:


> I don’t want to bank on what side of the bed the border guard got up on!


*when we went to Florida in January 2020 we planned to get to the airport during a lull in flights so going thru security and customs with my massive bags of meds and truckload of social anxiety would be easier on me.  There was no one in the customs hall in front of us and the agents were waving at us while one was on his tiptoes pointing at his line.  As he asked his questions he reached under his desk and pulled up a cup that he slowly swiveled around while grinning "think carefully before you answer" with a smirk. The cup said "I haven't had my morning coffee yet,  handle with care" 

the one we had coming back though? OMG,  he freaked me out,  had the attitude of the CMs who work at the haunted mansion! I'm sure he send his fully vaccinated grandmother to the quarantine hotels if she shifted her feet!*


----------



## pigletto

Sue M said:


> I don’t want to bank on what side of the bed the border guard got up on!


I’ve had mostly fine border guards but a couple of real power trippers . We crossed with my 14 year old son who’s passport was expired a few years ago and called ahead to find out if that was allowed ( it was a day trip and we didn’t realize it had expired ). We found info on the website , and made the call . We were told in no uncertain terms he could cross with a birth certificate.

The border guard was such a jerk about it. He insisted he needed a passport , smirked and rolled his eyes when asking “oh where did you get that info from  ?”  He was just really hostile from the get go.  

Even if we had been wrong, the nasty attitude was totally unwarranted , we weren’t being even a little rude.. we were scared he wouldn’t be let over. So then I have to tell him that I was told by border services and their website that he was fine to cross with a birth certificate . He didn’t like being wrong but once he realized he was he said “Well I get the final say and you can cross but only by my generosity.” 
Ummm ok … or how about by the laws of our country instead ? 
Of course we let him have his power trip.

 I seriously hope that these vaccine passports and the rules to cross and concise and clear and ironclad or we will hear all kinds of stories about mix ups at the border I’m sure .


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

@pigletto, these are the type of people who even if working security at McDonalds would have the same "I'm important" attitude. Like, gimmie a break.


----------



## Sue M

@pigletto yup there’s always that one. Thankfully  most are pretty nice.


----------



## Sue M

Donald - my hero said:


> *when we went to Florida in January 2020 we planned to get to the airport during a lull in flights so going thru security and customs with my massive bags of meds and truckload of social anxiety would be easier on me.  There was no one in the customs hall in front of us and the agents were waving at us while one was on his tiptoes pointing at his line.  As he asked his questions he reached under his desk and pulled up a cup that he slowly swiveled around while grinning "think carefully before you answer" with a smirk. The cup said "I haven't had my morning coffee yet,  handle with care"
> 
> the one we had coming back though? OMG,  he freaked me out,  had the attitude of the CMs who work at the haunted mansion! I'm sure he send his fully vaccinated grandmother to the quarantine hotels if she shifted her feet!*


Yup, some I’ve had a few laughs with, and some have zero personality. You’d think their face will crack if they smiled. HM is a good analogy!


----------



## bcwife76

I once had a TSA agent at SNA (John Wayne, airport close to Anaheim) insist that we had to sign our kids passports  NO NO NO. Luckily I carry a print out from the CBSA website that states the passport is null and void if a parent signs it. Pulled it out with a flourish. He gave me this "ugh, whatever" looks but obviously let us through. We cannot have been the first Canadians he'd ever encountered


----------



## wdwmom3

bcwife76 said:


> I once had a TSA agent at SNA (John Wayne, airport close to Anaheim) insist that we had to sign our kids passports  NO NO NO. Luckily I carry a print out from the CBSA website that states the passport is null and void if a parent signs it. Pulled it out with a flourish. He gave me this "ugh, whatever" looks but obviously let us through. We cannot have been the first Canadians he'd ever encountered



I’ve heard of stories of that happening.  Or with airline staff saying it.  I keep a copy of the paper that came with my DS’s passport saying parents are not to sign in, in his actual passport.


----------



## Jiminyfan2020

bcwife76 said:


> I once had a TSA agent at SNA (John Wayne, airport close to Anaheim) insist that we had to sign our kids passports  NO NO NO. Luckily I carry a print out from the CBSA website that states the passport is null and void if a parent signs it. Pulled it out with a flourish. He gave me this "ugh, whatever" looks but obviously let us through. We cannot have been the first Canadians he'd ever encountered


Same thing happened to us at the airport in Newark. Agent wouldn't let us board our flight until I signed both of our children's passports. I refused several times and stated why. Finally I asked for their supervisor. Two seconds later we were on the plane; no supervisor needed apparently. Since then I carry the CBSA information as well.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

Wow, this thread is now 60 pages! Love all the information and also speculation  Speaking of the latter, if you had to guess today, when do you think the land border will open? Do you see anything changing beyond what was already announced on July 20? What about August 20? Or do you think it will be even later.


----------



## pigletto

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> Wow, this thread is now 60 pages! Love all the information and also speculation  Speaking of the latter, if you had to guess today, when do you think the land border will open? Do you see anything changing beyond what was already announced on July 20? What about August 20? Or do you think it will be even later.


I go back and forth on this one in my head but I’m thinking it will be September. I think restrictions will ease gradually before then but until we hit 75 or even 80 percent fully vaxed we won’t see a full reopening. And I think they are rightfully very worried about the Delta variant which is proving more transmissible and responsible for outbreaks in places that are way further ahead than us on vaccination rates ( I.e. Israel just had to reinstate their mask mandates ) .

So if we are patient and get our vaccination rates as high as possible we can open up and not worry as much about a punishing fourth wave .Hopefully. I know that’s not the most optimistic view but it would be awful to open up too soon and have to go through this a fourth time .


----------



## Sue M

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> Wow, this thread is now 60 pages! Love all the information and also speculation  Speaking of the latter, if you had to guess today, when do you think the land border will open? Do you see anything changing beyond what was already announced on July 20? What about August 20? Or do you think it will be even later.


Did they announce what they are doing July 20?  I must have missed it. I just thought they announced starting July 1 no quarantine, hotel, or day 8 test for fully vaccinated.


----------



## SirDuff

Sue M said:


> Did they announce what they are doing July 20?  I must have missed it. I just thought they announced starting July 1 no quarantine, hotel, or day 8 test for fully vaccinated.



I think maybe the PP meant 20-JUNE.  Isn’t that the day that the announcement was made?  And thought that the changes came in on 5-July, not 1-July?  Or did it change?


----------



## mamaofsix

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> Wow, this thread is now 60 pages! Love all the information and also speculation  Speaking of the latter, if you had to guess today, when do you think the land border will open? Do you see anything changing beyond what was already announced on July 20? What about August 20? Or do you think it will be even later.


I think Sept will be when we see the land border fully open.  That lets the summer pass without us seeing scores of tourists coming here and putting us at risk.  

In the meantime, I think we're going to see a vaccine passport system announced, with eligible Canadians required to have a double vaccine.  The only hitch is the U.S. - so many states have already passed legislation outlawing the requirement of vaccine passports.  I think they are holding up this process because Canada wants to require it, and the U.S. refuses...


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

Sue M said:


> Did they announce what they are doing July 20?  I must have missed it. I just thought they announced starting July 1 no quarantine, hotel, or day 8 test for fully vaccinated.


No, sorry - nothing else was announced other than the easing of restrictions for Canadians who are fully vaccinated which starts July 6. However, the Canada/USA border is still technically closed until July 20. If the closure gets extended again, at that point it will be to August 20.  I’m assuming there will be extensions or announcements prior to July 20 and August 20 ,and was wondering what do people think will happen.
I agree, we are probably looking at September. MAYBE August 20.  Even though it will wipe another  summer tourist season for Canada...
I am praying the variants won’t throw a wrench in our full reopening. Our city health unit doctor was giving an update the other day, taking questions from media and when asked how worried he is about it, he said his advice is to do as much as we can this summer if we are fully vaccinated, so if there is another wave and more restrictions come in the Fall, we are recharged. My heart sank when he said that... we are already being told get ready for resurgence in the Fall. I can’t even think about it, but this is the main reason I want to go away late August if my family is fully vaccinated.


----------



## CJK

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> Our city health unit doctor was giving an update the other day, taking questions from media and when asked how worried he is about it, he said his advice is to do as much as we can this summer if we are fully vaccinated, so if there is another wave and more restrictions come in the Fall, we are recharged. My heart sank when he said that... we are already being told get ready for resurgence in the Fall. I can’t even think about it, but this is the main reason I want to go away late August if my family is fully vaccinated.


My heart sinks too.  I was really, really, hoping that high vaccination rates could avoid a 4th wave. I can't even let myself think of another wave. I had been hoping for things to get fairly back to normal by the fall.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

CJK said:


> My heart sinks too.  I was really, really, hoping that high vaccination rates could avoid a 4th wave. I can't even let myself think of another wave. I had been hoping for things to get fairly back to normal by the fall.


Absolutely. I feel the same. I can’t even think about it... hope it doesn’t happen.


----------



## ellbell

mamaofsix said:


> I think Sept will be when we see the land border fully open.  That lets the summer pass without us seeing scores of tourists coming here and putting us at risk.
> 
> In the meantime, I think we're going to see a vaccine passport system announced, with eligible Canadians required to have a double vaccine.  The only hitch is the U.S. - so many states have already passed legislation outlawing the requirement of vaccine passports.  I think they are holding up this process because Canada wants to require it, and the U.S. refuses...


I'm pretty confident that it will be before September.  Justin Trudeau has made a big deal on emphasizing weeks not months.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

If the States doesn't want/need a vaccine passport then fine!  We won't need it to get into the US.  Just for getting home.

But I think the US will need something in line to be able to show OTHER countries they wish to enter. They don't make all of the rules in the world...


----------



## pigletto

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> No, sorry - nothing else was announced other than the easing of restrictions for Canadians who are fully vaccinated which starts July 6. However, the Canada/USA border is still technically closed until July 20. If the closure gets extended again, at that point it will be to August 20.  I’m assuming there will be extensions or announcements prior to July 20 and August 20 ,and was wondering what do people think will happen.
> I agree, we are probably looking at September. MAYBE August 20.  Even though it will wipe another  summer tourist season for Canada...
> I am praying the variants won’t throw a wrench in our full reopening. Our city health unit doctor was giving an update the other day, taking questions from media and when asked how worried he is about it, he said his advice is to do as much as we can this summer if we are fully vaccinated, so if there is another wave and more restrictions come in the Fall, we are recharged. My heart sank when he said that... we are already being told get ready for resurgence in the Fall. I can’t even think about it, but this is the main reason I want to go away late August if my family is fully vaccinated.


Uggghhh . This honestly goes through my head over and over . I played it safe and booked January but if the Delta variant breaks through our vaccines and causes another wave , January will be peak shutdown time. Everything I booked is refundable but it would be so hard to find time off for all of my family to go  together before then. So I’ll just keep hoping for the best I suppose.


----------



## TammyLynn33

pigletto said:


> Uggghhh . This honestly goes through my head over and over . I played it safe and booked January but if the Delta variant breaks through our vaccines and causes another wave , January will be peak shutdown time. Everything I booked is refundable but it would be so hard to find time off for all together before then. So I’ll just keep hoping for the best I suppose.



i worry because their vax numbers aren’t much higher than mine and I read somewhere , 10% have not gone back for their second shots ( and supply isn’t the issue ) CNN and us news media are just starting to talk about Delta . Im afraid they are in for a wave and  that will affect us wanting to travel there


----------



## Sue M

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> No, sorry - nothing else was announced other than the easing of restrictions for Canadians who are fully vaccinated which starts July 6. However, the Canada/USA border is still technically closed until July 20. If the closure gets extended again, at that point it will be to August 20.  I’m assuming there will be extensions or announcements prior to July 20 and August 20 ,and was wondering what do people think will happen.
> I agree, we are probably looking at September. MAYBE August 20.  Even though it will wipe another  summer tourist season for Canada...
> I am praying the variants won’t throw a wrench in our full reopening. Our city health unit doctor was giving an update the other day, taking questions from media and when asked how worried he is about it, he said his advice is to do as much as we can this summer if we are fully vaccinated, so if there is another wave and more restrictions come in the Fall, we are recharged. My heart sank when he said that... we are already being told get ready for resurgence in the Fall. I can’t even think about it, but this is the main reason I want to go away late August if my family is fully vaccinated.


If everyone that can gets vaccinated we may get thru it. My fingers are crossed. I have hopes that the next announcement for July 20 is  fully vaccinated people only need quick test at airport and opening up land border to fully vaccinated. 
If US citizens want to travel anywhere they will need a vaccine passport. I think the govt will see that. People will want to start traveling when it’s possible.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

I thought we had to learn to live with covid?  Vaccinate the masses and learn from our previous wins/losses.
The public is growing very weary of all this variant talk, to the point a lot think they are just fear mongering because they are essentially going back on their word each time we hit their noted goal post. I am a huge ruler follower, whether I believe I should or not.  But at this point, I actually don't even care anymore.  I'll get my second shot and live my life like they told me I could do.

Edit to add:  How well do you think it will go over with the tourism sector if they were made to shutdown again?


----------



## Mikey15

Current closure is until 11:59pm ET July 21. When the one-month extension was made we were roughly ~75/20 vaccinated. We’re already up to 77/30 in ~10 days. Another three weeks when they have to make the call, we should be at least 50% fully vaccinated, maybe closer to 80/55.

This last one-month extension I think 2nd dose levels and the Delta risk were drivers, but also something to point to that’s disease-related rather than political/diplomatic. Canada’s lack of interest in accepting unvaccinated US-ians, desire for proof of vaccination, etc, is almost guaranteed to be a sticking point in negotiating the opening with the US. If that angle gets resolved, we could be open July 22nd. If it doesn’t, and we’re not 80/80 yet (we should be early August), I would understand officials not wanting a major unvaccinated inflow until we’ve done everything possible to fully vaccinate Canadians.


----------



## pigletto

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> I thought we had to learn to live with covid?  Vaccinate the masses and learn from our previous wins/losses.
> The public is growing very weary of all this variant talk, to the point a lot think they are just fear mongering because they are essentially going back on their word each time we hit their noted goal post. I am a huge ruler follower, whether I believe I should or not.  But at this point, I actually don't even care anymore.  I'll get my second shot and live my life like they told me I could do.
> 
> Edit to add:  How well do you think it will go over with the tourism sector if they were made to shutdown again?


Yes but this also relies on as many of us as possible being fully vaccinated to open up . And as you said earlier , we make the rules for our country , not the USA . So we are staying closed to protect our citizens and our economic interests .

 If we opened up too soon and hit another huge wave who would be blamed ? Our government. The same people who yelled that we didn’t close our borders soon enough are now yelling that we aren’t opening quick enough .. but the results of opening too soon would be disastrous.

I don’t recall being told my being fully vaccinated meant I could do whatever I wanted as soon as I wanted . It just meant I was a step closer to helping end this pandemic for our country as a whole .


----------



## CJK

I have friends living in Florida, and I just mentioned to them this concern of a 4th wave in the fall. The notion isn't even on their radar. Their feeling is that the worst of the pandemic is behind us. Oh how I would love for that to be true!!!


----------



## mamaofsix

ellbell said:


> I'm pretty confident that it will be before September.  Justin Trudeau has made a big deal on emphasizing weeks not months.


If it were just up to Canada and Trudeau, I think you'd be right.  But, there are strong rumours circulating right now that it's the U.S. holding up this process.  Canada wants those coming from the U.S. to have vaccine passports to come here, the U.S. doesn't want to play ball.  They are going to bar Canadians at the border unless we allow U.S. citizens in without proof of vaccination.  The U.S. not being able to come to a diplomatic agreement is what's causing the hold up.


----------



## ellbell

mamaofsix said:


> If it were just up to Canada and Trudeau, I think you'd be right.  But, there are strong rumours circulating right now that it's the U.S. holding up this process.  Canada wants those coming from the U.S. to have vaccine passports to come here, the U.S. doesn't want to play ball.  They are going to bar Canadians at the border unless we allow U.S. citizens in without proof of vaccination.  The U.S. not being able to come to a diplomatic agreement is what's causing the hold up.


Rumors are rumors and I won't comment otherwise because we aren't allowed to per the sticky.


----------



## NewYKRunner

ellbell said:


> Rumors are rumors and I won't comment otherwise because we aren't allowed to per the sticky.



Agreed, at least provide a link to an article for such rumours.


----------



## hdrolfe

Sadly, variants are going to continue to pop up, at least until the world is more vaccinated. I just hope the vaccines we have at the moment continue to be effective against them.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

All these variant threats will definitely hinder our borders opening/letting us out without going through hoops.

They just make it easier to keep us locked down. Just another excuse.


----------



## Sue M

mamaofsix said:


> If it were just up to Canada and Trudeau, I think you'd be right.  But, there are strong rumours circulating right now that it's the U.S. holding up this process.  Canada wants those coming from the U.S. to have vaccine passports to come here, the U.S. doesn't want to play ball.  They are going to bar Canadians at the border unless we allow U.S. citizens in without proof of vaccination.  The U.S. not being able to come to a diplomatic agreement is what's causing the hold up.


Just rumours. Doesn’t make sense because it would be hitting their tourism sector. People canceling vacations to U.S.  Plus every country is going to require Vaccine Passport, not just Canada. Unlikely the U.S. is going to bar the entire world from coming.


----------



## ottawamom

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> All these variant threats will definitely hinder our borders opening/letting us out without going through hoops.
> 
> They just make it easier to keep us locked down. Just another excuse.


Not directed at you specifically ilovetotrave1977, but rather to all those who are feeling confined.

I think it would benefit all of us to develop a glass half full rather than glass half empy view of things. We live in a glorious country that perhaps we should take this opportunity, of closed international borders, to get out and see if you feel the need to travel. Try not to see this as "they" are keeping us locked in but rather they are keeping us safe. It does no good to live in a constant state of being upset about something over which we have little control. I'm thinking of the effect on my blood pressure.

As mentioned above many countries in the world, who have vaccines, are now going through outbreaks that they are having to take measures to control. That could very easily become us in a few weeks.

Breathe everyone, this too will pass. Life will move on. Patience, a glass of wine and a blow up pool in the backyard until then.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

@ottawamom, I could likely take a full glass right now!  I know sometimes I get in rant mode versus logic mode.

I think for me, it is all the unknowns that drive me nuts. I am a Type A planner, so this is all not good for my head. LOL


----------



## alohamom

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> I think for me, it is all the unknowns that drive me nuts. *I am a Tpe A planner, so this is all not good for my head. *LOL



*THIS EXACTLY! * 
I am seriously just now truly absorbing and realizing how much I have had to adapt my thinking and how the pandemic has changed the way I live my life.


----------



## WebmasterDoc

PLEASE read and follow the policy pinned at the top of this forum: https://www.disboards.com/threads/disboards-covid-19-discussion-policy-effective-06-06-2021.3840666/


Speculation about vaccine passports, variants, etc. is not going to be allowed.


----------



## Donald - my hero

WebmasterDoc said:


> PLEASE read and follow the policy pinned at the top of this forum: https://www.disboards.com/threads/disboards-covid-19-discussion-policy-effective-06-06-2021.3840666/
> 
> 
> Speculation about vaccine passports, variants, etc. is not going to be allowed.


*Just to clarify this as we are all TRULY trying to keep this thread open and are reminding each other when we do wander off the rails, we can share and discuss DOCUMENTED information regarding vaccine passports & variants such as the statement released by the WHO on the weekend regarding the raising rates of the Delta variant? It's only when we add our own editorial comments/thoughts about those details that we've crossed the line??*


----------



## SirDuff

ottawamom said:


> Not directed at you specifically ilovetotrave1977, but rather to all those who are feeling confined.
> 
> I think it would benefit all of us to develop a glass half full rather than glass half empy view of things. We live in a glorious country that perhaps we should take this opportunity, of closed international borders, to get out and see if you feel the need to travel. Try not to see this as "they" are keeping us locked in but rather they are keeping us safe. It does no good to live in a constant state of being upset about something over which we have little control. I'm thinking of the effect on my blood pressure.
> 
> As mentioned above many countries in the world, who have vaccines, are now going through outbreaks that they are having to take measures to control. That could very easily become us in a few weeks.
> 
> Breathe everyone, this too will pass. Life will move on. Patience, a glass of wine and a blow up pool in the backyard until then.



While I get our sentiment, I'm a Canadian living in Europe.  I've not been able to see most of my family since Christmas 2019 (some I did see on a trip home *just* before lockown in March 2020).  I'm not going to lie...it's hard.  I get it (I'm in Europe because I work at the WHO - trust me, I get it), but doesn't make it easier.


----------



## gskywalker

All I know is I am going to Disney in 2 months.  Will it involve driving through a barricade and OJ'ng it down there with 70 cop cars following me..... maybe if that's what needs to happen.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

gskywalker said:


> All I know is I am going to Disney in 2 months.  Will it involve driving through a barricade and OJ'ng it down there with 70 cop cars following me..... maybe if that's what needs to happen.


Haha! I’ll follow you


----------



## summer-of-esp

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> Haha! I’ll follow you


Count me in on your convoy! I’ve had our 50th Anniversary trip planned for years. I’ve gotten all of the reservations and park passes we wanted. Not going to miss this


----------



## suse66

Nothing is stopping my trip......I am flying not driving but we are going.


----------



## KNovacovschi

gskywalker said:


> All I know is I am going to Disney in 2 months.  Will it involve driving through a barricade and OJ'ng it down there with 70 cop cars following me..... maybe if that's what needs to happen.



I’m right there with you


----------



## KNovacovschi

suse66 said:


> Nothing is stopping my trip......I am flying not driving but we are going.



same, AC changed our return flight yesterday, second time they’ve done it and it’s for worse times each time, originally it was for 5pm then they changed it to 8:30am and then 6:30am. Which made no sense to me for yesterday’s change. Before I got it because it was the only direct flight and they were reducing them however when I went and looked as if I’m just booking for the first time they actually had added direct flights so I acknowledged the change and then changed it from 6:30am to 2:25pm and received a $24 credit. They are not stopping me from going this time.


----------



## 2Lunds

ottawamom said:


> Not directed at you specifically ilovetotrave1977, but rather to all those who are feeling confined.
> 
> I think it would benefit all of us to develop a glass half full rather than glass half empy view of things. We live in a glorious country that perhaps we should take this opportunity, of closed international borders, to get out and see if you feel the need to travel. Try not to see this as "they" are keeping us locked in but rather they are keeping us safe. It does no good to live in a constant state of being upset about something over which we have little control. I'm thinking of the effect on my blood pressure.
> 
> As mentioned above many countries in the world, who have vaccines, are now going through outbreaks that they are having to take measures to control. That could very easily become us in a few weeks.
> 
> Breathe everyone, this too will pass. Life will move on. Patience, a glass of wine and a blow up pool in the backyard until then.


An excellent suggestion, however our soon-to-expire flight credits are with an airline which does not fly within Canada, so there is no remedy for my blood pressure here


----------



## Mikey15

2Lunds said:


> An excellent suggestion, however our soon-to-expire flight credits are with an airline which does not fly within Canada, so there is no remedy for my blood pressure here



Only land border's closed! Travel if you're comfortable 

(I'm waiting to drive tho)


----------



## Jrb1979

I'm in no hurry to cross the border. While I miss Cedar Point, it's summer here and there is lots to enjoy in Canada. Til mandatory testing is done it's not worth the hoops you have to jump through to travel.


----------



## 2Lunds

Mikey15 said:


> Only land border's closed! Travel if you're comfortable
> 
> (I'm waiting to drive tho)


It's actually not open to non-essential travel, not really.  The entry requirements have been loosened enough to make it a bit more convenient for Canadians returning from abroad, however non-essential travel is still being discouraged. The testing/at-home quarantine are still hindering factors for us.


----------



## ellbell

2Lunds said:


> It's actually not open to non-essential travel, not really.  The entry requirements have been loosened enough to make it a bit more convenient for Canadians returning from abroad, however non-essential travel is still being discouraged. The testing/at-home quarantine are still hindering factors for us.


Travel being discouraged and being not allowed are two different things.  As of right now only the land border is closed


----------



## Marek Zyskowski

I had to cancel my trip that I planned for August 1st. Looks like the land border is not open and it does not look like it will open soon.


----------



## bookbabe626

2Lunds said:


> It's actually not open to non-essential travel, not really.  The entry requirements have been loosened enough to make it a bit more convenient for Canadians returning from abroad, however non-essential travel is still being discouraged. The testing/at-home quarantine are still hindering factors for us.



The US border folks at Pearson knew we were going to Disney and didn’t care. Maybe they figure that‘s essential?

And the quarantine for vaccinated travelers returning by air ends July 5, doesn’t it?  So we’re down to just the testing, and maybe that will disappear within the next months or so too.


----------



## Madame

DH was looking at the OHL schedule.  No idea if they’re more in the know than the rest of us, but not until Nov are there cross-border games scheduled.


----------



## KNovacovschi

Madame said:


> DH was looking at the OHL schedule.  No idea if they’re more in the know than the rest of us, but not until Nov are there cross-border games scheduled.



But why would it show earlier seeing as the season doesn’t even begin until October. I wouldn’t use that as a tool to determine when the border will reopen.


----------



## Madame

KNovacovschi said:


> But why would it show earlier seeing as the season doesn’t even begin until October. I wouldn’t use that as a tool to determine when the border will reopen.


Dunno, but he found it odd that there was zero cross-border play until Nov.  Maybe they’re hedging their bets.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

We are now booked (WDW) flights and all for mid August, all members of the family going will be fully vaccinated. If land border opens we might drive instead, but I decided we are not waiting even if we have to deal with tests. I have family and friends in Europe and USA who have been travelling (fully vaxxed) safely for a few months now. We first tried to book a few things in Canada this summer. It’s A) very very limited especially in Ontario and B) super expensive. We looked at 2 nights closer to home Blu Mountain, over $1000 for 3 ppl including lodging and some outdoor attractions they have but not including food. Deerhurst resort we love in Muskoka is like $700 a night and it includes just lodging.  Niagara Falls has decent deals on lodging in July but all indoor attractions are closed. I love It when people say to explore Canada this summer…unless you camp or own a cottage, options are super limited. I think we are all watching what happens in the next few weeks with the land border and when it opens, there will be those roaring to go right away and those that are ok waiting. I am thinking the land border might open late August or beginning of September. I hope our mid August trip happens and that we’ll be booking another one in the late Fall. If land border border opens sooner I’ll be pleasantly surprised


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

bookbabe626 said:


> The US border folks at Pearson knew we were going to Disney and didn’t care. Maybe they figure that‘s essential?
> 
> And the quarantine for vaccinated travelers returning by air ends July 5, doesn’t it?  So we’re down to just the testing, and maybe that will disappear within the next months or so too.


When did you go if I may ask? How was it?


----------



## bookbabe626

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> When did you go if I may ask? How was it?



Our trip was June 5-13.  It was awesome, even staying at CSR rather than our usual fav YC.  It felt like having a normal vacation almost.  Flew AC from YYZ to MCO, then Frontier MCO to BUF, car service BUF to home.  Smooth easy travel all the way.  No issues with testing at any point in the journey.  Masks were a bit annoying in the heat, but they were in the process of dropping that requirement so we really only needed to wear them indoors.  DH works from home and I’m mostly retired, so no issues with doing the 14 day quarantine, although they’re a bit excessive with the multiple times a day app notifications and phone calls.

Glad the quarantine is being dropped, since we currently plan to go back over the August long weekend, and again at Labour Day.  That’s our usual style of trip, frequent long weekends rather than less frequent longer trips.  DH has elder care issues, so being away for a long period of time is hard for us logistically.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

bookbabe626 said:


> Our trip was June 5-13.  It was awesome, even staying at CSR rather than our usual fav YC.  It felt like having a normal vacation almost.  Flew AC from YYZ to MCO, then Frontier MCO to BUF, car service BUF to home.  Smooth easy travel all the way.  No issues with testing at any point in the journey.  Masks were a bit annoying in the heat, but they were in the process of dropping that requirement so we really only needed to wear them indoors.  DH works from home and I’m mostly retired, so no issues with doing the 14 day quarantine, although they’re a bit excessive with the multiple times a day app notifications and phone calls.
> 
> Glad the quarantine is being dropped, since we currently plan to go back over the August long weekend, and again at Labour Day.  That’s our usual style of trip, frequent long weekends rather than less frequent longer trips.  DH has elder care issues, so being away for a long period of time is hard for us logistically.


That’s great to hear! We are definitely waiting until quarantine is dropped (DH runs a business outside the home) and now that it will be for fully vaccinated we are booked Aug 15-22! We are flying YYZ to MCO round trip but if land border opens we might cancel flights and drive as I’m off for 2.5 weeks in August. We stayed in CSR in 2019 and loved it too. This time we are trying CBR because of the Skyliner and well... AKL and POR (our faves) are not open then.
If you take a long weekend trip, just curious, will you have to test as soon as you arrive in Orlando pretty much? The pre-arrival text you need to enter Canada has to be done within 72 hrs I believe?
Also just wondering where you tested near Disney and what the cost was.
Thanks for the info! I’m happy to see that people have been able to take a vacation now. And yes, masks are no longer needed at WDW except transportation I think. Definitely helps when it’s hot and sticky in the summer.


----------



## TammyLynn33

Madame said:


> Dunno, but he found it odd that there was zero cross-border play until Nov.  Maybe they’re hedging their bets.



My Kid volunteers they have no clue what when how.. he’s not even sure he will be able to volunteer this year . Double vaxxed year 5 volunteering and AT student


----------



## flav

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> We are now booked (WDW) flights and all for mid August, all members of the family going will be fully vaccinated. If land border opens we might drive instead


Like many on this thread, we are starting to reserve a plan B in case the land border remains closed. I see that some have cancellable flights. Are there some airlines that offer flexible cancellation due to the pandemic or are those just fully refundable tickets? Any airlines better than other for that? TIA


----------



## azrivest

flav said:


> Like many on this thread, we are starting to reserve a plan B in case the land border remains closed. I see that some have cancellable flights. Are there some airlines that offer flexible cancellation due to the pandemic or are those just fully refundable tickets? Any airlines better than other for that? TIA



From YUL, options at this point are pretty much only AC. Air Transat won't start flights to MCO again until September

Look at this page on Air Canada's website:
https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home/book/travel-news-and-updates/2020/covid-19.htmlThey've extended their flexible policy until July 31st. It's unlimited changes, and unlimited changes/cancellation IF you book an Aeroplan ticket. But if you cancel a non-refundable rate (Basic/Standard/Flex), you'll get credits, not a refund.


----------



## MyGirlLovesTink

bookbabe626 said:


> Our trip was June 5-13.  It was awesome, even staying at CSR rather than our usual fav YC.  It felt like having a normal vacation almost.  Flew AC from YYZ to MCO, then Frontier MCO to BUF, car service BUF to home.  Smooth easy travel all the way.  No issues with testing at any point in the journey.  Masks were a bit annoying in the heat, but they were in the process of dropping that requirement so we really only needed to wear them indoors.  DH works from home and I’m mostly retired, so no issues with doing the 14 day quarantine, although they’re a bit excessive with the multiple times a day app notifications and phone calls.
> 
> Glad the quarantine is being dropped, since we currently plan to go back over the August long weekend, and again at Labour Day.  That’s our usual style of trip, frequent long weekends rather than less frequent longer trips.  DH has elder care issues, so being away for a long period of time is hard for us logistically.



I am also curious to know where you tested prior to coming back to Canada. I heard that Walgreen's offers free testing, but it is drive thru and not sure if you can do it with Uber? We are going August 22-28, so trying to get all the info I need for the testing requirements.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

flav said:


> Like many on this thread, we are starting to reserve a plan B in case the land border remains closed. I see that some have cancellable flights. Are there some airlines that offer flexible cancellation due to the pandemic or are those just fully refundable tickets? Any airlines better than other for that? TIA





azrivest said:


> From YUL, options at this point are pretty much only AC. Air Transat won't start flights to MCO again until September
> 
> Look at this page on Air Canada's website:
> https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home/book/travel-news-and-updates/2020/covid-19.htmlThey've extended their flexible policy until July 31st. It's unlimited changes, and unlimited changes/cancellation IF you book an Aeroplan ticket. But if you cancel a non-refundable rate (Basic/Standard/Flex), you'll get credits, not a refund.


Yes - we booked our flights using Aeroplan miles for the sole reason that it’s fully refundable even if YOU cancel up to 2 hrs before departure.
Otherwise Air Canada bookings not using Aeroplan rewards are only refundable IF Air Canada cancels your flight. If you cancel you will get future travel credits.
The link above explains everything


----------



## KNovacovschi

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> Yes - we booked our flights using Aeroplan miles for the sole reason that it’s fully refundable even if YOU cancel up to 2 hrs before departure.
> Otherwise Air Canada bookings not using Aeroplan rewards are only refundable IF Air Canada cancels your flight. If you cancel you will get future travel credits.
> The link above explains everything



Depending on the level of your flight. We are booked comfort with AC and it includes 1 free checked bag, free preferred seat selection, unlimited changes and fully refundable right up until the day of and that’s me cancelling not AC. I purposely booked it like that and glad I did with the changes they’ve made to our flights in September, I have them perfect now and hoping they stay that way since they are adding more and more flights.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

KNovacovschi said:


> Depending on the level of your flight. We are booked comfort with AC and it includes 1 free checked bag, free preferred seat selection, unlimited changes and fully refundable right up until the day of and that’s me cancelling not AC. I purposely booked it like that and glad I did with the changes they’ve made to our flights in September, I have them perfect now and hoping they stay that way since they are adding more and more flights.


Yes sorry, depends on the fare you booked, I was talking about the regular “non-refundable” fare. You can book fully refundable but obviously that fare is a lot more $. At least it was for us.
I agree with you, it’s the only way to go right now (booking fully refundable) unless you don’t mind ending up with travel credits.


----------



## KNovacovschi

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> Yes sorry, depends on the fare you booked, I was talking about the regular “non-refundable” fare. You can book fully refundable but obviously that fare is a lot more $. At least it was for us.
> I agree with you, it’s the only way to go right now (booking fully refundable) unless you don’t mind ending up with travel credits.



Gotcha. We used our travel voucher from our Paris trip last year so we booked comfort. When we booked comfort months ago it was definitely a lot cheaper then it is now, if we weren’t using the travel voucher we wouldn’t have been paying for it. We also mostly booked it because at the time we weren’t 100% sure if my DH would be able to go due to the hotel stay and 14 day quarantine, which I could do no problem but he can’t, now that we are both fully vaccinated we don’t have to worry about that and he can come.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

KNovacovschi said:


> Gotcha. We used our travel voucher from our Paris trip last year so we booked comfort. When we booked comfort months ago it was definitely a lot cheaper then it is now, if we weren’t using the travel voucher we wouldn’t have been paying for it. We also mostly booked it because at the time we weren’t 100% sure if my DH would be able to go due to the hotel stay and 14 day quarantine, which I could do no problem but he can’t, now that we are both fully vaccinated we don’t have to worry about that and he can come.


DH and I go for our second dose tomorrow and DS 12 is July 25 I believe (we fly out Aug 15) and I’m starting to get cold feet. Not travelling but all the extra steps, and the fact we still have to get our second doses... and just so much to think about.
Also to be honest I’m afraid of some judging us... (travel shaming)
When do you travel?


----------



## ellbell

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> DH and I go for our second dose tomorrow and DS 12 is July 25 I believe (we fly out Aug 15) and I’m starting to get cold feet. Not travelling but all the extra steps, and the fact we still have to get our second doses... and just so much to think about.
> Also to be honest I’m afraid of some judging us... (travel shaming)
> When do you travel?


The travel shaming is real.  I went to Cuba in November and December and even though it was one of the safest places to travel and you even had to test on arrival I told no one and neither did the friend I was travelling with.  I don't feel like the issue is as prevalent now if you are fully vaccinated. Way more people are travelling now than a few months ago


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

ellbell said:


> The travel shaming is real.  I went to Cuba in November and December and even though it was one of the safest places to travel and you even had to test on arrival I told no one and neither did the friend I was travelling with.  I don't feel like the issue is as prevalent now if you are fully vaccinated. Way more people are travelling now than a few months ago


Thank you!
I still hear quotes like “I wouldn’t travel now, I wouldn’t go to the States yet” etc etc
If I could have gone in Sep to Nov 2020 time frame I would have... cases were relatively low and yes you were testing and the resorts were half empty with so many protocols. My husband can’t quarantine as he owns a business and can’t take additional time off post vacation but yeah. I would have gone too


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## ronandannette

“They” can shame away - I am impervious to shame. Right from the beginning we've followed each federal, provincial and municipal restriction to the letter, including cutting short a March 2020 trip and coming home when Canadians were recalled. I’ve always said we’d travel again as soon as we were officially permitted and we will. As far as personal safety goes, well, vaccination either works or it doesn’t and we’re staking getting our lives back on the idea that it does. I’m fully vaccinated and have no qualms about going anywhere.


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## KNovacovschi

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> DH and I go for our second dose tomorrow and DS 12 is July 25 I believe (we fly out Aug 15) and I’m starting to get cold feet. Not travelling but all the extra steps, and the fact we still have to get our second doses... and just so much to think about.
> Also to be honest I’m afraid of some judging us... (travel shaming)
> When do you travel?



We are going Sept 18-25. I wouldn’t worry about travel shaming. You are doing everything you are required to so I just thinks they can mind their own business.


----------



## torontominnie

Has anyone looked at the app this morning? It doesn’t seem to be updated?


----------



## KNovacovschi

torontominnie said:


> Has anyone looked at the app this morning? It doesn’t seem to be updated?



I have and nope it isn’t, they just said today and since it technically doesn’t go into effect until 11:59pm I’m sure they will take their time to do it. This is the government we are talking about.


----------



## torontominnie

They actually updated the time (very quietly) last week to 12:01 last night. I just uninstalled and reinstalled the app and it’s now there


----------



## LauraLap

Are we able to pre-load all of our vaccination information, etc? Or do we have to wait for 3 days before we're back?


----------



## KNovacovschi

LauraLap said:


> Are we able to pre-load all of our vaccination information, etc? Or do we have to wait for 3 days before we're back?



looks like you have to wait, I just tried and it won’t go past July 8th


----------



## Chip#1

Looks like the vaccine info is loaded each time you need to register/travel; ie they aren't holding the info in your account.


----------



## LauraLap

Chip#1 said:


> Looks like the vaccine info is loaded each time you need to register/travel; ie they aren't holding the info in your account.


That's what I thought. I'll be loading my info on Space Mountain


----------



## starvenger

Here is a first hand account of how the new travel restrictions went

(Mike Wilner used to work for FAN590 in Toronto, and now he writes for the Star covering the Jays)


----------



## Donald - my hero

starvenger said:


> Here is a first hand account of how the new travel restrictions went
> 
> (Mike Wilner used to work for FAN590 in Toronto, and now he writes for the Star covering the Jays)


*urgh,  I HATE pay walls on articles. *


----------



## torontominnie

We crossed yesterday and it went smoothly thank goodness. We had our printed out test results (from Walgreens) and had filled out the app information before crossing. The border agent took some time to review everything but I think it was mostly because we were travelling as a family not as individuals. It also took a bit for the nurse to supervise the on site tests but overall it was super duper smooth and we are grateful to be home and able to go about our normal lives without worrying about a 14 day quarantine.


----------



## starvenger

Donald - my hero said:


> *urgh,  I HATE pay walls on articles. *


Crap. Forgot that the Star has a subscription service. (I'm subscribed, obviously.) I'll reread and give y'all the Coles Notes.


----------



## TammyLynn33

Anyone know what the policy is for returning Americans by land ? Is it still a test within three days ?


----------



## TommyJK

Donald - my hero said:


> *urgh,  I HATE pay walls on articles. *



Use outline.com


----------



## Mikey15

TammyLynn33 said:


> Anyone know what the policy is for returning Americans by land ? Is it still a test within three days ?



I would like to know this too. When I tried looking it up on CBP's site it gave me info for going to Canada, not returning to US.


----------



## Chip#1

Mikey15 said:


> I would like to know this too. When I tried looking it up on CBP's site it gave me info for going to Canada, not returning to US.


It's a CDC mandate for the US testing; need to visit their website. For whatever reason i can't post the link here but it's under travelers/testing-international-air-travelers section. Scroll to the FAQ's and there's a comment that the requirements of the Order only apply to air travel into the US.


----------



## Mikey15

Chip#1 said:


> It's a CDC mandate for the US testing; need to visit their website. For whatever reason i can't post the link here but it's under travelers/testing-international-air-travelers section. Scroll to the FAQ's and there's a comment that the requirements of the Order only apply to air travel into the US.



That is interesting. Looks like they "recommend" a test 3-5 days after returning to US for fully vaccinated people but doesn't seem to be a requirement.

Two weeks after my 2nd dose, I (dual national) could drive across the land border without having to quarantine (I checked the New York requirements on the CDC site too and nope, don't have to) but to come back to Canada I have to pay for a pre-arrival test, AND take a test on arrival. I can't believe heading south would be that simple, but it appears to be, at least for people who have right-of-return to both countries.


----------



## starvenger

Sorry about the delay. (OK, not sorry - went hiking in the Lion's Head area and it was tiring, but enjoyable.)

Anyway, the pertinent details about Wilner's article:
- Same day test cost $225. $160 for results by 5pm next day. 
- CBSA doesn't care about if you have proof of vaccination - they're looking for confirmation in the ArriveCan receipt.
- If you can't upload your proof via the app, you can do so through the website.
- Customs officer gave Wilner a self-testing kit, and quarantine was required ONLY if the result was positive.


----------



## newdeal

Donald - my hero said:


> *urgh,  I HATE pay walls on articles. *



if anyone has a Mac this can be bypassed in safari by going to safari>preferences>security and unclick the box so that javascript is disabled then refresh the page and you can read the entire article without the paywall blocking it.  You can the re-enable it right away because leaving it disabled will break many sites


----------



## Minniemoo15

My DH flew across the border yesterday. He said it was all very smooth, he had uploaded his vaccine status ahead of time on ArriveCan and had no issues. He had his negative test result from the Seattle airport taken the day before his departure. His employer had booked him a test in YUL for upon arrival but he didn’t end up needing it, Customs gave him an at-home test to do.

It is pretty awesome having him home with no quarantine  needed! He has done many 2 week self-isolations in the past which is hard on everyone but especially our young daughters. Travel is still complicated - all the testing and different forms/requirements but it is much more manageable than it was with no isolation required now.


----------



## TammyLynn33

Minniemoo15 said:


> My DH flew across the border yesterday. He said it was all very smooth, he had uploaded his vaccine status ahead of time on ArriveCan and had no issues. He had his negative test result from the Seattle airport taken the day before his departure. His employer had booked him a test in YUL for upon arrival but he didn’t end up needing it, Customs gave him an at-home test to do.
> 
> It is pretty awesome having him home with no quarantine  needed! He has done many 2 week self-isolations in the past which is hard on everyone but especially our young daughters. Travel is still complicated - all the testing and different forms/requirements but it is much more manageable than it was with no isolation required now.



what do you do with the take home test ? What day ? Where do you drop it off ? Just your local health unit ? 
thanks


----------



## bookbabe626

TammyLynn33 said:


> what do you do with the take home test ? What day ? Where do you drop it off ? Just your local health unit ?
> thanks



There‘s instructions in the box…Uber or Purolator pick it up, depending on where you live.


----------



## Minniemoo15

TammyLynn33 said:


> what do you do with the take home test ? What day ? Where do you drop it off ? Just your local health unit ?
> thanks


He did it this morning - it had to be done within 24 hours of landing. He had to fill out some information and call a number to have someone on the line walk him through it. Purolator will pick it up tomorrow. 
One thing we noted is that both the at-home testing and the ArriveCan app haven’t updated their isolating description yet. Both still mention hotel quarantine etc. A little unnerving but he does have an official paper from customs exempting him from isolation.


----------



## rosieposy

TammyLynn33 said:


> Anyone know what the policy is for returning Americans by land ? Is it still a test within three days ?


I’m an American permanent resident and a Canadian Citizen. My kids in I were in Canada for five weeks and we drove home to Ohio last week. We didn’t have to test at all on the American side. The border process is the same as it always was on the American side. They didn’t ask me anything about Covid.


----------



## TammyLynn33

Minniemoo15 said:


> He did it this morning - it had to be done within 24 hours of landing. He had to fill out some information and call a number to have someone on the line walk him through it. Purolator will pick it up tomorrow.
> One thing we noted is that both the at-home testing and the ArriveCan app haven’t updated their isolating description yet. Both still mention hotel quarantine etc. A little unnerving but he does have an official paper from customs exempting him from isolation.



Yes apparently my ex just crossed into Canada last night . I never agreed to a last min visit .. he’s going back tomorrow so the at the border test is pointless. Sigh .. I really wish Canada border would follow up that someone is an essential family member not a once a year visitor .


----------



## mamaofsix

Just wanted to remind everyone that I started this thread to discuss the* full re-opening of the LAND border for non-essential travelers who would like to drive from Canada to Disney, *and any news or trip plans that are related to this topic. Obviously, the land border has not fully opened yet and we are still waiting.

There seems to be a lot of discussion about Canadians coming to Canada by land to visit, unrelated to Disney trips.  There is also a lot of flying policy being discussed for a land border thread.  If you'd like to discuss flying across the border, there is a thread for that right here:

https://www.disboards.com/threads/air-travel-policy-updates.3840744/
Thanks


----------



## accm

We're planning on going to Disney for the Wine and Dine Half, and flights from Detroit are so much cheaper. I can't decide if I should book it or wait. Part of me is certain that the border will be open by then, but then another part of me isn't sure if we should risk it.

I just want to be able to go to Disney without paying a small fortune for flights!!


----------



## pigletto

accm said:


> We're planning on going to Disney for the Wine and Dine Half, and flights from Detroit are so much cheaper. I can't decide if I should book it or wait. Part of me is certain that the border will be open by then, but then another part of me isn't sure if we should risk it.
> 
> I just want to be able to go to Disney without paying a small fortune for flights!!


That’s a tough one. Like you, I’m pretty sure it will be open BUT I would be anxious from the minute I booked the flights until I got official confirmation that it was opening. That would take some of the enjoyment out of planning for me.


----------



## accm

pigletto said:


> That’s a tough one. Like you, I’m pretty sure it will be open BUT I would be anxious from the minute I booked the flights until I got official confirmation that it was opening. That would take some of the enjoyment out of planning for me.


I think I'll track the prices and see what happens. I can fly both myself and my husband down out of DTW for the same cost as just one of us from YYZ!


----------



## CJK

Is anyone else tracking how things are going in Europe? They tend to be ahead of us in terms of Covid trends. I am desperate to start travelling again, but the surges in Europe have me really nervous......


----------



## wdwmom3

CJK said:


> Is anyone else tracking how things are going in Europe? They tend to be ahead of us in terms of Covid trends. I am desperate to start travelling again, but the surges in Europe have me really nervous......



We are now ahead of most of Europe with vaccination rates.   And the surge they are seeing now is because of the Delta which is already here.  If you look at Ontario, we have been able to keep things fairly low even with the Delta because of the vaccination levels.


----------



## CJK

wdwmom3 said:


> We are now ahead of most of Europe with vaccination rates. And the surge they are seeing now is because of the Delta which is already here. If you look at Ontario, we have been able to keep things fairly low even with the Delta because of the vaccination levels.


Thank you! I feel better.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

Any guesses ahead of the July 21st date? Do you think anything will change?


----------



## Jrb1979

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> Any guesses ahead of the July 21st date? Do you think anything will change?


I have this feeling not much is going to change. A lot of that stems from Trudeau recently saying those not vaccinated will be allowed into Canada. Which says to me the ArriveCanada app with your proof of vaccination is the hold up. Either way, til testing is no longer a requirement I have no plans to travel.


----------



## CanucksRock

My mom is hoping this comes true July 21. She is fully vaccinated and wants to drive to Texas to see her granddaughter that she has not seen in almost a year now. (She wants to drive, so her husband can go. He has health issues, and would not do well on a plane, especially with mask requirements)
CTV news article July 9, 2021
_
Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, who represents the border state of New York, urged the two countries to come up with a mutual plan to reopen the border as soon as possible -- and failing that, for the U.S. to take unilateral action.
"If an agreement cannot be reached ΓÇª the United States must do two things: expand the definition of essential travel to include vaccinated Canadian citizens with family, property, educational, medical, or business interests (in the U.S.), and unilaterally open the northern border to those vaccinated Canadians," Schumer said in a statement this week._


----------



## TommyJK

CanucksRock said:


> My mom is hoping this comes true July 21. She is fully vaccinated and wants to drive to Texas to see her granddaughter that she has not seen in almost a year now. (She wants to drive, so her husband can go. He has health issues, and would not do well on a plane, especially with mask requirements)
> CTV news article July 9, 2021
> 
> _Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, who represents the border state of New York, urged the two countries to come up with a mutual plan to reopen the border as soon as possible -- and failing that, for the U.S. to take unilateral action.
> "If an agreement cannot be reached ΓÇª the United States must do two things: expand the definition of essential travel to include vaccinated Canadian citizens with family, property, educational, medical, or business interests (in the U.S.), and unilaterally open the northern border to those vaccinated Canadians," Schumer said in a statement this week._



Ya, I think this is more likely.  US technically doesn't need to wait for Canada to want to open the border before they actually do.  I think up to now it's all been a loose agreement/courtesy between the countries to do it together.

My guess is that Canada will want to drag it out at least another month, for which we will in terms of allowing US citizens to come up here.  But if I had to wager, the US will open southbound to get our tourist dollars and then it's just up to us travellers if we want to venture down there and deal with the return steps/precautions.  Perhaps Canada will lift part of the return steps of the pre-arrival test but still mandate us to take the arrival test (i.e. give us a test kit to do at home) so they can still monitor #s of infection that potentially come across to see any ongoing trends.


----------



## samsteele

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> Any guesses ahead of the July 21st date? Do you think anything will change?


My guess is that the US is certainly pushing for a more streamlined entrance into the US for Canadians. Many states including Florida want all Canadians back including theme park visitors and snowbirds who are afraid to get on a plane and want to drive their own vehicles across the border. Remember how quickly Florida changed their driver licence policy a few years ago when they unwittingly snared snowbirds who rightly should only need to rely on their own Cdn licence. Florida as well as Myrtle Beach, Arizona, etc want Canadian snowbirds back and spending. Same with the border states missing our gas, mall shopping sprees and grocery runs.

My gut is that the app will be all that's needed within the month and US border guards will have complete access to what we've uploaded on the app and can easily verify full vax. I doubt the tests will be required by the end of summer for border crossing or even for return to Canada. Air flights may be another animal depending on AC and WJ and their own policies and I can see testing continued for boarding flights into the fall.


----------



## Jrb1979

A bit of rant but it does go with the topic. I feel bad for the Canadian tourism industry. They have lost a lot in the last year. What saddens me more is that the majority of Canadians may feel bad for the tourism industry, many have not done much to help it. I get many are yearning for regular travel, me included.


----------



## TommyJK

I think one of the issues is that depsite our collective desire on this board to want the border opened (it is a Disney board so most of us have a vested "personal" interest in wanting that border open to more easily travel), most Canadians don't want it open yet.

The most recent Nanos research survey shows that while 63% say they are ok with it opening "sometime this year", when you break that down it shows only 15% want it opened immediately, and only another 14% said sometime this summer.  34% said "this fall".


----------



## Jrb1979

TommyJK said:


> I think one of the issues is that depsite our collective desire on this board to want the border opened (it is a Disney board so most of us have a vested "personal" interest in wanting that border open to more easily travel), most Canadians don't want it open yet.
> 
> The most recent Nanos research survey shows that while 63% say they are ok with it opening "sometime this year", when you break that down it shows only 15% want it opened immediately, and only another 14% said sometime this summer.  34% said "this fall".


I'm all for keeping it closed longer. Partially how Covid is still a pretty big thing in many parts of the world. My biggest reason is to help our economy.


----------



## Dawg74

I think there is a chance the two governments will jointly relax restrictions for vaccinated travellers on July 21. We are planning to drive to Florida in September, if the restrictions don’t change we are going to fly.  Hope we hear something later this week.


----------



## Pumpkin1172

Jrb1979 said:


> A bit of rant but it does go with the topic. I feel bad for the Canadian tourism industry. They have lost a lot in the last year. What saddens me more is that the majority of Canadians may feel bad for the tourism industry, many have not done much to help it. I get many are yearning for regular travel, me included.


As much as I would love to fly east...but the prices for flights, hotels, restaurants, etc etc across our country are absolutely mind blowing.  As much as I would love to travel east to visit....it will cost us way more $$$ to travel there, than to do a trip in the middle of winter to an all inclusive resort.  The flights alone from Alberta - East is 1000.00+ and that doesn't include any hotels, car rentals, food...when I can go to a winter destination for 2000.00 everything included. 

We are planning a trip to the East...but it will be one of those once and done trips....just based on the cost.  Our bank account can't do it right now....and THAT is sad.  That it is cheaper for us to travel outside of our country...than stay and visit our own beautiful country. 

I feel for all the tourism places across Canada....they are feeling it everywhere.

Edited to add prices of flights

My city to Toronto - 1200 - 1350
My city to Halifax - 1000 - 1100
My city to Ottawa 1100-1350
My city to Montreal 1300
)
It would be a 4.5 hr drive to the nearest bigger center plus add in a 150 - 200 hotel room plus meal to make the actual flights cheaper ( but doesn't actually make it cheaper


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

TommyJK said:


> I think one of the issues is that depsite our collective desire on this board to want the border opened (it is a Disney board so most of us have a vested "personal" interest in wanting that border open to more easily travel), most Canadians don't want it open yet.
> 
> The most recent Nanos research survey shows that while 63% say they are ok with it opening "sometime this year", when you break that down it shows only 15% want it opened immediately, and only another 14% said sometime this summer.  34% said "this fall".


I think that generally majority of Canadians don’t want it reopen without any restrictions, like the way it was pre-covid.
I doubt that the survey asked if we should open to fully vaccinated travellers and test upon arrival.
Even if the survey was accurate, I imagine it was done earlier this spring because it says 15 % want it open immediately , another 14% sometime this summer... well, sometime this summer is now. Even Fall is relatively soon.
Anyway. Personally I’m happy with the quarantine being lifted for fully vaxxed Canadians and we have flights booked for mid August. If the land border reopens we may drive instead, if testing is still required anyway.  Slowly but surely we are heading in the right direction. Maybe not July 21 but I’d be surprised if some more restrictions are not lifted come Aug 21.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

Jrb1979 said:


> I'm all for keeping it closed longer. Partially how Covid is still a pretty big thing in many parts of the world. My biggest reason is to help our economy.


I agree about not reopening to the world, but we are talking about the Canada/USA land border reopening.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

Jrb1979 said:


> A bit of rant but it does go with the topic. I feel bad for the Canadian tourism industry. They have lost a lot in the last year. What saddens me more is that the majority of Canadians may feel bad for the tourism industry, many have not done much to help it. I get many are yearning for regular travel, me included.


Believe me, many of us Canadians looked into vacationing in our country first. We certainly did. In Ontario where we live, things were completely shuttered meaning everything closed til very recent.
Places that are open, the prices are through the roof. $700 per night is the cost of a nice resort in Muskoka. Ok, so we looked at flying to Alberta, or BC. Flights are expensive and lodging very limited and also very expensive. It’s actually less  for us to go to Disney world for a week, then vacation in Canada for a week.
We priced so many options in Canada, we really did. Very very expensive AND very limited.


----------



## Madame

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> Believe me, many of us Canadians looked into vacationing in our country first. We certainly did. In Ontario where we live, things were completely shuttered meaning everything closed til very recent.
> Places that are open, the prices are through the roof. $700 per night is the cost of a nice resort in Muskoka. Ok, so we looked at flying to Alberta, or BC. Flights are expensive and lodging very limited and also very expensive. It’s actually less  for us to go to Disney world for a week, then vacation in Canada for a week.
> We priced so many options in Canada, we really did. Very very expensive AND very limited.


Seriously agree.  All vaccinated up & nowhere to go


----------



## MamaLema

Pumpkin1172 said:


> My city to Halifax - 1000 - 1100
> My city to Ottawa 1100-1350
> My city to Montreal 1300
> )


This is exactly why we’ve never done a Canadian holiday


----------



## TommyJK

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> I think that generally majority of Canadians don’t want it reopen without any restrictions, like the way it was pre-covid.
> I doubt that the survey asked if we should open to fully vaccinated travellers and test upon arrival.
> Even if the survey was accurate, I imagine it was done earlier this spring because it says 15 % want it open immediately , another 14% sometime this summer... well, sometime this summer is now. Even Fall is relatively soon.



The survey was run June 30th - July 5th by Nanos Research which is a highly reputable polling company so I don't have any reason not to believe the accuracy of the results. 

It also asked how satisfied the respondents were with how the government has handled the borders since the pandemic began.  60% of respondents gave a score of 7 or higher out of 10.  It also asked what is more important when it comes to decisions on opening the border, public health vs the economy. 79% said public health while 18% said the economy.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

TommyJK said:


> The survey was run June 30th - July 5th by Nanos Research which is a highly reputable polling company so I don't have any reason not to believe the accuracy of the results.
> 
> It also asked how satisfied the respondents were with how the government has handled the borders since the pandemic began.  60% of respondents gave a score of 7 or higher out of 10.  It also asked what is more important when it comes to decisions on opening the border, public health vs the economy. 79% said public health while 18% said the economy.


Well, a good chunk of those surveyed still want them open by Fall... I think that is reasonable and not that far away.
Let’s hope that the vaccines keep doing their job and we can get on with our lives.


----------



## bookbabe626

What I‘ve noticed in discussions with friends and family is that the majority of people who are strongly in favour of keeping the borders closed seem to be the ones with no time/money/plans to travel outside of the province. 

Those same people also tend to be the ones saying to keep stores and restaurants closed or open with extensive restrictions, since they don’t work in tourism or hospitality and tend to work jobs where they are working from home with really only positive impacts from the lockdowns and closures.

It’s really easy to vote in favour of closures if those closures don’t impact you in any way, shape or form.  If you don’t travel, it’s easy to say that travel should be banned.  If you don’t work in retail, tourism or hospitality, it’s easy to say those things should be closed.

I would hope that from this point the decisions are made based on actual numbers and science, and related to vaccinated status, etc. rather than based on public pressure via anonymous survey results.


----------



## Pumpkin1172

All I know is that we were told....vaccinate so we can get our lives " back " and start living again.

All we can do hope everyone keeps going for their second vaccination,  Most of the people who I know who got vaccinated, did it for that reason...and also for travelling.  Our numbers here are not anywhere near the numbers of active and recovered cases in other parts of the world...and most who are travelling are not wanting to get sick or bring it back with them.  

Here is Alberta...  74% of eligible people have received their first dose
                            55% of eligible people have received their second dose.
Edited to add....in the city I live in...we only have 5 active cases...with no new cases in the last 8 days in a city and surrounding area of about 150,000 - 200,000 depending on how far out you want to go.   This area is more " vaccine hesitant" than the rest of the province   I don't know if it is because of the average age of our population ( we are a VERY YOUNG city with young families and children ) or if they are uninformed and don't want to look at the data 

Yesterday they reported only 33 new cases in the whole province, no new deaths or hospitalizations.  Hopefully we continue on this trend.  It's never going to go away.  Like I have said from the beginning...it's here and NOT ever going away.  Even chief medical officer has stated...It's here to stay, we need to learn to live with it.  As we learn more and more about it. and how we can prevent ourselves and loved ones from it, use the knowledge we have and we can live with this.

Hopefully those in power " follow the science" which they were " quoting" for the longest time that they would do.  Only time will tell which side of the road they want to follow.


----------



## Sue M

Personally I don’t see any reason why our border shouldn’t be open to fully vaccinated travellers. And it would have to be with a vaccine approved by our govt. 
I live close to the Washington border and miss my cross border day trips to Trader Joe’s, Bellingham Costco, etc!

But I can’t see that happening until US agrees to provide vaccine passport. I feel they’ll have to, as any other country will require proof of vaccine to enter.


----------



## KNovacovschi

Sue M said:


> Personally I don’t see any reason why our border shouldn’t be open to fully vaccinated travellers. And it would have to be with a vaccine approved by our govt.
> I live close to the Washington border and miss my cross border day trips to Trader Joe’s, Bellingham Costco, etc!
> 
> But I can’t see that happening until US agrees to provide vaccine passport. I feel they’ll have to, as any other country will require proof of vaccine to enter.



I don't get what the big deal is with providing proof of vaccination either. When you go to some other countries you are required to have certain immunizations and have to show proof of them so how is this any different, it just baffles me how some people are so opposed to just showing a piece of paper or scanning a QR code. I'm referring to those in US and Canada that think it infringes on their rights not you specifically.


----------



## Sue M

I heard an announcement today that our govt is working on a vaccine passport that would be internationally accepted. But it will be up to the individual provinces to go with it or not. Cough, Alberta 
This would be great. I detest the BC service app you have to download in order to get to Health Gateway where you can get digital copy of vaccine record.  So stupid.


----------



## bardays

Sue M said:


> I heard an announcement today that our govt is working on a vaccine passport that would be internationally accepted. But it will be up to the individual provinces to go with it or not. Cough, Alberta
> This would be great. I detest the BC service app you have to download in order to get to Health Gateway where you can get digital copy of vaccine record.  So stupid.


the health gateway/service app hurts my head!


----------



## newdeal

vaccination supply is high, but interest is waning.  This is the perfect time to announce more perks for vaccinated folks so expect something soon.  Not likely for July 21 though because the government can't work that fast


----------



## quandrea

Not directly related to boarder opening…does anyone every worry about/consider how you’d handle a positive test while away and prior to heading home?  With the delta, drs say one may very well fall ill, but just with a cold like illness. While you wouldn’t be in any grave danger, getting on a plane home would be a no go. I won’t head to the States until testing is no longer a thing. The logistical  nightmare of a positive test terrifies me. So opening the boarder is not as attractive to me as it might have been a few weeks ago. Even if it were open, too many risks to travel there for my family. Getting trapped in Florida would be horrible.

As for Canadian travel—we are headed to Newfoundland. Air was shockingly expensive, but everything else was cheap so I could make the budget work. If anyone wants to see our country, I’ve never encountered a more beautiful place than Newfoundland. So much to do. Whales, hiking, the ocean, amazing food, beach combing, amazing people.


----------



## Juventus

I'm in Windsor and have driven back from Disney a half dozen times straight through.  I am flying in August: if we don"t pass the test then I would rent a car.


----------



## momof2gr8kids

Juventus said:


> I'm in Windsor and have driven back from Disney a half dozen times straight through.  I am flying in August: if we don"t pass the test then I would rent a car.


So, if you test positive for COVID, you're going to travel into the US?  It's no wonder some people are shouting to keep the borders closed, if people are going to do things like this.


----------



## quandrea

momof2gr8kids said:


> So, if you test positive for COVID, you're going to travel into the US?  It's no wonder some people are shouting to keep the borders closed, if people are going to do things like this.


No, the positive test would happen in Florida, prior to coming home.


----------



## ottawamom

Renting a car may not be easy either.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

[


momof2gr8kids said:


> So, if you test positive for COVID, you're going to travel into the US?  It's no wonder some people are shouting to keep the borders closed, if people are going to do things like this.


Nobody said they are flying to the US if they test positive... I mean how? Who’d let them on the plane anyway? Let’s not get carried away.
We are flying mid August and IF we were to test positive taking our pre-departure test, we cancel our flights (ours are fully refundable until 2 hrs prior to departure) and not fly.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

quandrea said:


> Not directly related to boarder opening…does anyone every worry about/consider how you’d handle a positive test while away and prior to heading home?  With the delta, drs say one may very well fall ill, but just with a cold like illness. While you wouldn’t be in any grave danger, getting on a plane home would be a no go. I won’t head to the States until testing is no longer a thing. The logistical  nightmare of a positive test terrifies me. So opening the boarder is not as attractive to me as it might have been a few weeks ago. Even if it were open, too many risks to travel there for my family. Getting trapped in Florida would be horrible.
> 
> As for Canadian travel—we are headed to Newfoundland. Air was shockingly expensive, but everything else was cheap so I could make the budget work. If anyone wants to see our country, I’ve never encountered a more beautiful place than Newfoundland. So much to do. Whales, hiking, the ocean, amazing food, beach combing, amazing people.


You’ve spiked my interest enough that I want to look into Newfoundland. We are in Ontario and the two provinces we wanted to visit are Alberta (Banff) and British Columbia.
However Newfoundland sounds wonderful!


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

Juventus said:


> I'm in Windsor and have driven back from Disney a half dozen times straight through.  I am flying in August: if we don"t pass the test then I would rent a car.


We considered what happens if we were to test positive in Florida. We have covid insurance that covers medical expenses and emergency return home by air if tested positive for COVID-19.
I think you can still rent a car but have to tell the company as they have different cleaning protocols after the car is returned.
Since we are fully vaccinated I think chance of testing positive is small but if we did I would repeat with another test first. I suppose worse case scenario would be self isolating in destination. We were initially flying Aug 29 and later changed it to Aug 15 in case of any issues, we have a couple of weeks before school starts etc. I am also off for 2 additional weeks after our week at Disney. 
I do get why some people won’t travel until testing is no longer a requirement. There is some additional stress, things to figure out right now. For some it’s probably huge stress. For example for my mom. She said she finds travel stressful enough without adding proof of tests, vaccines, apps etc and won’t travel right now as it would give her great anxiety. I respect that. She is generally someone that finds things stressful and worries more the the average person. Not sure how long we’ll have to wait to travel without any restrictions though...


----------



## bookbabe626

If by some mathematically remote chance DH and I (fully-vaccinated) tested positive while away, we’d likely just quarantine wherever we were, but maybe switch to a DVC 1 bdrm villa if it was at WDW.  I’m mostly retired and he works from home, so we can do that wherever.  When we had to quarantine on return from WDW in June, it really felt just like normal, other than getting groceries delivered and the multiple daily calls/tests from public health.


----------



## quandrea

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> You’ve spiked my interest enough that I want to look into Newfoundland. We are in Ontario and the two provinces we wanted to visit are Alberta (Banff) and British Columbia.
> However Newfoundland sounds wonderful!


It’s amazing. We went in August of 2019 and it was without a doubt the best family vacation we have ever taken—we have see the world too, from Disney to Alaska, all over Europe, Russia, the rest of Canada. Nothing came close in terms of the fun we had. I’m over the moon to be going again.

PM me if you want itinerary tips and ideas for vacation homes, etc


Car rentals are hard to come by. We are getting ours in downtown St John’s rather than the airport. If you’re looking for a regular car, it won’t be so hard. CAA offers a good discount.

Also, look at flying in to St. John’s and out of Deer Lake. Gros Morne National Park is not to be missed. 

Do the lighthouse picnic in Ferry land (near St John’s)!


----------



## quandrea

bookbabe626 said:


> If by some mathematically remote chance DH and I (fully-vaccinated) tested positive while away, we’d likely just quarantine wherever we were, but maybe switch to a DVC 1 bdrm villa if it was at WDW.  I’m mostly retired and he works from home, so we can do that wherever.  When we had to quarantine on return from WDW in June, it really felt just like normal, other than getting groceries delivered and the multiple daily calls/tests from public health.


It’s not that mathematically remote with the delta variant—about a thirty percent chance.

The vaccines are only about 70% effective against contracting delta. You won’t become seriously ill, but you will test positive.

I hadn’t really been concerned about this issue at all until yesterday when I listened to a cbc Cross Country Checkup broadcast. The show really made me reconsider what I might do in the event any one of us tested positive in Florida.


----------



## igrsod

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> We considered what happens if we were to test positive in Florida. We have covid insurance that covers medical expenses and emergency return home by air if tested positive for COVID-19.
> I think you can still rent a car but have to tell the company as they have different cleaning protocols after the car is returned.
> Since we are fully vaccinated I think chance of testing positive is small but if we did I would repeat with another test first. I suppose worse case scenario would be self isolating in destination. We were initially flying Aug 29 and later changed it to Aug 15 in case of any issues, we have a couple of weeks before school starts etc. I am also off for 2 additional weeks after our week at Disney.
> I do get why some people won’t travel until testing is no longer a requirement. There is some additional stress, things to figure out right now. For some it’s probably huge stress. For example for my mom. She said she finds travel stressful enough without adding proof of tests, vaccines, apps etc and won’t travel right now as it would give her great anxiety. I respect that. She is generally someone that finds things stressful and worries more the the average person. Not sure how long we’ll have to wait to travel without any restrictions though...


Where did you get your covid insurance?  I think that is necessary for our September trip if there is a negative test requirement.  We are all fully vaxxed, but getting home if someone is positive is a worry.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

igrsod said:


> Where did you get your covid insurance?  I think that is necessary for our September trip if there is a negative test requirement.  We are all fully vaxxed, but getting home if someone is positive is a worry.


Manulife, booked it through Air Canada with our flights. They included it for a while but I believe it was if you booked until June 30th or if redeeming Aeroplan miles through July 31.


----------



## flav

quandrea said:


> Not directly related to boarder opening…does anyone every worry about/consider how you’d handle a positive test while away and prior to heading home?


Worry is an understatement, to the point that I have multiple trips planned:

If USA opens the land border, we drive to the beaches on the East coast.
If Canada drops the pre-departure test for the return, we fly to Florida.
If neither, we travel locally.



HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> We considered what happens if we were to test positive in Florida. We have covid insurance that covers medical expenses and emergency return home by air if tested positive for COVID-19.



Now, I find that very interesting… It would allow number 2. But we would still be stressed, especially my teens.


----------



## flav

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> Manulife, booked it through Air Canada with our flights. They included it for a while but I believe it was if you booked until June 30th or if redeeming Aeroplan miles through July 31.


I booked with Aeroplan, how do I confirm coverage?


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

flav said:


> I booked with Aeroplan, how do I confirm coverage?


When did you book and when do you travel?


----------



## tlcdoula

Sue M said:


> I heard an announcement today that our govt is working on a vaccine passport that would be internationally accepted. But it will be up to the individual provinces to go with it or not. Cough, Alberta
> This would be great. I detest the BC service app you have to download in order to get to Health Gateway where you can get digital copy of vaccine record.  So stupid.


The whole process in BC to get to the vaccines records is insane... I got mine set up but need to do hubbies so it is done but it took me a bit to get mine all figured out..   Honestly I am not sure if I will be able to get back to it again


----------



## Pumpkin1172

KNovacovschi said:


> When you go to some other countries you are required to have certain immunizations and have to show proof of them so how is this any different, it just baffles me how some people are so opposed to just showing a piece of paper or scanning a QR code. I'm referring to those in US and Canada that think it infringes on their rights not you specifically.


Exactly...travelling into different countries requires different immunizations and proof of them, and people don't bat and eye to do those requirements. 
I guess maybe the tinfoil hats are a little too tight     All joking aside, it is still personal preference if you get the vaccination or not.  If it's required to travel, then they will have to do what is " required".  Why should this vaccination be any different than some of the vaccinations requires to travel into South American or Africa?  


Sue M said:


> I heard an announcement today that our govt is working on a vaccine passport that would be internationally accepted. But it will be up to the individual provinces to go with it or not. Cough, Alberta
> This would be great. I detest the BC service app you have to download in order to get to Health Gateway where you can get digital copy of vaccine record. So stupid.


I just shake my head at him sometimes.  He wants people to be able to travel into Alberta.  He wants the boarder opened again to get the money and jobs flowing again here...but doesn't want the vaccine passport.  

We knew that as soon as there was talk about the vaccine, that it would be needed to safely travel.  

I am hopeful that soon those who are fully vaccinated will be able to cross at the boarder.  Sooner or later the boarder will need to be opened to let people travel again.  Waiting for the 21.  Hopefully family members will finally be able to come back and visit us again!


----------



## Sue M

tlcdoula said:


> The whole process in BC to get to the vaccines records is insane... I got mine set up but need to do hubbies so it is done but it took me a bit to get mine all figured out..   Honestly I am not sure if I will be able to get back to it again


I have to do my daughters with her. Thankfully Hubbie isn’t traveling with us or I’d have to do his too. I’d rather chew off my right arm than have to go through this again.  Whoever thought of this system should get his head examined. I’m sure it must have been a man lol.


----------



## Sue M

Pumpkin1172 said:


> Exactly...travelling into different countries requires different immunizations and proof of them, and people don't bat and eye to do those requirements.
> I guess maybe the tinfoil hats are a little too tight     All joking aside, it is still personal preference if you get the vaccination or not.  If it's required to travel, then they will have to do what is " required".  Why should this vaccination be any different than some of the vaccinations requires to travel into South American or Africa?
> 
> I just shake my head at him sometimes.  He wants people to be able to travel into Alberta.  He wants the boarder opened again to get the money and jobs flowing again here...but doesn't want the vaccine passport.
> 
> We knew that as soon as there was talk about the vaccine, that it would be needed to safely travel.
> 
> I am hopeful that soon those who are fully vaccinated will be able to cross at the boarder.  Sooner or later the boarder will need to be opened to let people travel again.  Waiting for the 21.  Hopefully family members will finally be able to come back and visit us again!


I knew you’d have something to say about it lol.  I hope for further reduction of hoops in 21th too. For fully vaccinated. Like doing away with the 72 hr test flying home. We have to test at the airport when we land. Isn’t that enough?


----------



## TommyJK

Pumpkin1172 said:


> Exactly...travelling into different countries requires different immunizations and proof of them, and people don't bat and eye to do those requirements.
> I guess maybe the tinfoil hats are a little too tight     All joking aside, it is still personal preference if you get the vaccination or not.  If it's required to travel, then they will have to do what is " required".  Why should this vaccination be any different than some of the vaccinations requires to travel into South American or Africa?



I think for the most part, the vast majority of people up here never look to travel to places that (pre-pandemic) required various proofs of vaccination so it never really dawned on them/impacted them.  Out of sight, out of mind so to say.  But now requiring something needed that previously wasn't is bound to rile some people up.

That being said, I'm all for it.  Not only will it help give many peace of mind that things will be safer if they want to travel sometime soon, but will continue to give incentive for more people to get vaccinated if they were maybe on the fence.


----------



## PixieT78

tlcdoula said:


> The whole process in BC to get to the vaccines records is insane... I got mine set up but need to do hubbies so it is done but it took me a bit to get mine all figured out..   Honestly I am not sure if I will be able to get back to it again



Now that I have it set up, it is pretty easy.  Let me know if you are getting stuck! I need to get DH's done as well so that's the plan for this weekend!


----------



## Pumpkin1172

TommyJK said:


> That being said, I'm all for it. Not only will it help give many peace of mind that things will be safer if they want to travel sometime soon, but will continue to give incentive for more people to get vaccinated if they were maybe on the fence.



We are too.  It is something we know happens in other parts of the world...this is just on a bigger scale for a requirement.


----------



## bookbabe626

quandrea said:


> It’s not that mathematically remote with the delta variant—about a thirty percent chance.
> 
> The vaccines are only about 70% effective against contracting delta. You won’t become seriously ill, but you will test positive.
> 
> I hadn’t really been concerned about this issue at all until yesterday when I listened to a cbc Cross Country Checkup broadcast. The show really made me reconsider what I might do in the event any one of us tested positive in Florida.



Won’t discuss this here, but we are still not worried based on our math and research.  As a former news broadcaster, I choose to do my own research and not believe what I hear/read in the mass media.  ;-)


----------



## dvcdisney

I know it's not Land border, but it's nice to see that the Canadian ports will be opening in November.


----------



## Mikey15

dvcdisney said:


> I know it's not Land border, but it's nice to see that the Canadian ports will be opening in November.



I’d say that’s precisely timed to confirm there basically won’t be much cruise traffic in Canada until next spring. I think the season basically ends in October for most of the ports? At least announcing it now allows cruiselines and cruisers to plan ahead.

But hey, some potential land border news on the horizon. Mid-August?
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-us-border-vaccinations-1.6105110


----------



## scorpsfan

I'm thinking the fully vaccinated might still need a covid test for re-entry into Canada through the land border  Has anyone had any experience with this? Does Walgreens offer free testing for Canadians too?? (that sounds too good to be true!)


----------



## Camilo

scorpsfan said:


> I'm thinking the fully vaccinated might still need a covid test for re-entry into Canada through the land border  Has anyone had any experience with this? Does Walgreens offer free testing for Canadians too?? (that sounds too good to be true!)



A friend of mine told me you can get a free test at CVS, but I wasn't able to see that on their website (I did see it's free for Americans). It's funny for the price of COVID tests varies here: Shoppers charges 40.00 and Lifelabs charges 199.00. that's a huge difference for a family of 5, like ours.

Our end of August drive down trip is still on hold waiting for that confirmation if the borders are open and what the requirements are for driving. Fingers crossed.....


----------



## KNovacovschi

Camilo said:


> A friend of mine told me you can get a free test at CVS, but I wasn't able to see that on their website (I did see it's free for Americans). It's funny for the price of COVID tests varies here: Shoppers charges 40.00 and Lifelabs charges 199.00. that's a huge difference for a family of 5, like ours.
> 
> Our end of August drive down trip is still on hold waiting for that confirmation if the borders are open and what the requirements are for driving. Fingers crossed.....



They are 2 different tests. The $40 one is just the antigen test but the $199 is a PCR test, that’s why there is a price difference.


----------



## Sue M

Camilo said:


> A friend of mine told me you can get a free test at CVS, but I wasn't able to see that on their website (I did see it's free for Americans). It's funny for the price of COVID tests varies here: Shoppers charges 40.00 and Lifelabs charges 199.00. that's a huge difference for a family of 5, like ours.
> 
> Our end of August drive down trip is still on hold waiting for that confirmation if the borders are open and what the requirements are for driving. Fingers crossed.....


watching Global early news, banner on bottom of screen said border May open as soon as August to fully vaccinated US travellers, if vaccination rate keeps on current trajectory.  So maybe this will include land border?  



KNovacovschi said:


> They are 2 different tests. The $40 one is just the antigen test but the $199 is a PCR test, that’s why there is a price difference.


I wish Shoppers made this available in BC, and all provinces. I emailed them!  Just got canned reply about it only available in 2 provinces.


----------



## scorpsfan

I think the PCR test is the one they will accept at the border, not the rapid one  It totally sucks how Americans can get a free one for travel and we can't here.


----------



## spewey

As of this minute (and my usual reminder to read the applicable gov't websites) a PCR test is *not *required to travel to either the US or return to Canada.

The US accepts Rapid Antigen (amongst many other types) and Canada accepts NAAT, such as the Rapid ID Now available at Walgreens.


----------



## TammyLynn33

I read this and well the comment about not knowing if Americans will be asked for proof of vaccination questions .. so as Canadians we have to show or quarantine ? And under 12s Canadians need to quarantine , It better be the same rules for all travellers and not the “honour “ system 

https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/polit...D91yHNQTPr2Ea-bBPiKCH0jhDjqUQyURiLkShkrTbQ6w0


----------



## hdrolfe

Perhaps it will work as the cruiselines are doing, show proof or be considered unvaccinated. They are provided proof the same as Canadians, just that it may be easy to forge, same as Canadians. I have never travelled to a country that requires certain vaccinations, what sort of proof is accepted for those? While I think a "passport" of some sort would be nice, I don't think it's absolutely necessary. I am more concerned about not being allowed certain places as vaccinated because I mixed doses as recommended by my country. How will that impact going to the US? Coming back is obviously a nonissue, Canada will accept me as vaccinated. There will have to be some sort of acceptance of vaccines that aren't in use here as well, though that's really more for flying I suppose.


----------



## Jrb1979

hdrolfe said:


> Perhaps it will work as the cruiselines are doing, show proof or be considered unvaccinated. They are provided proof the same as Canadians, just that it may be easy to forge, same as Canadians. I have never travelled to a country that requires certain vaccinations, what sort of proof is accepted for those? While I think a "passport" of some sort would be nice, I don't think it's absolutely necessary. I am more concerned about not being allowed certain places as vaccinated because I mixed doses as recommended by my country. How will that impact going to the US? Coming back is obviously a nonissue, Canada will accept me as vaccinated. There will have to be some sort of acceptance of vaccines that aren't in use here as well, though that's really more for flying I suppose.


It shouldn't matter as only what you got for your 2nd dose is listed on you vaccination record.  I don't think it will matter much for going into the US as I doubt they  will enforce proof of vaccination. I'm all for anyone coming into Canada requiring to download the app


----------



## hdrolfe

Jrb1979 said:


> It shouldn't matter as only what you got for your 2nd dose is listed on you vaccination record.  I don't think it will matter much for going into the US as I doubt they  will enforce proof of vaccination. I'm all for anyone coming into Canada requiring to download the app



I think it will depend on where you are travelling. You are probably right about the US, but I know the cruiselines are asking about both doses, and some countries are not on board with the mixing, there was an article on CBC today about a couple planning a trip to Barbados that had to cancel because they aren't considered fully vaccinated. I am sure time will sort it out, and I don't plan to travel for a bit, but those planning trips in the near future are another story.


----------



## scorpsfan

The US accepts Rapid Antigen (amongst many other types) and Canada accepts NAAT, such as the Rapid ID Now available at Walgreens.
[/QUOTE]

Ok wait.. let me get this straight.. excuse my confusion.. but we can't just get a $40 one at Shoppers because it might not be ready in time? Is that right? I thought the PCR one was specifically for travel.


----------



## CanucksRock

The $40 shoppers one is accepted by the US. It is a rapid antigen test.


----------



## scorpsfan

CanucksRock said:


> The $40 shoppers one is accepted by the US. It is a rapid antigen test.



Really? I thought only the $199 ones were required for travel.


----------



## TommyJK

scorpsfan said:


> Really? I thought only the $199 ones were required for travel.



Coming back to Canada, they won't accept the cheaper/faster antigen test.  You need an NAAT type test (of which the PCR test is one of them).  But flying down to the US they accept the cheaper antigen test

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/testing-international-air-travelers.html


> *What types of SARS-CoV-2 test are acceptable under the Order?*
> Passengers must be tested with a viral test that could be* either an antigen test or a nucleic acid amplification test (NAAT)*. Examples of available NAATs for SARS-CoV-2 include but are not restricted to reverse transcription polymerase chain reaction (RT-PCR), reverse transcription loop-mediated isothermal amplification (RT-LAMP), transcription-mediated amplification (TMA), nicking enzyme amplification reaction (NEAR), and helicase-dependent amplification (HDA). The test used must be authorized for use by the relevant national authority for the detection of SARS-CoV-2 in the country where the test is administered. A viral test conducted for U.S. Department of Defense (DOD) personnel, including DOD contractors, dependents, and other U.S. government employees, and tested by a DOD laboratory located in a foreign country also meets the requirements of the Order.


----------



## ellbell

Looks like things are happening

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/u-s...tions-cheers-canada-u-s-border-news-1.5511870


----------



## von Monster

scorpsfan said:


> Really? I thought only the $199 ones were required for travel.



That's just what the media has been selling you. Entry into the US can be done via the rapid antigen test available via Shopper's, and entry back into Canada can be done via the NAAT test available at Walgreens.

For these type of things *always* refer to the government sources directly as opposed to what you read on a forum or in the news. Both the CDC and the Canadian government list the acceptable tests on their respective websites.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/testing-international-air-travelers.html
https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid/t...ovid-19-testing-travellers-coming-into-canada


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

ellbell said:


> Looks like things are happening
> 
> https:///mobile/politics/u-s-lawmak...tions-cheers-canada-u-s-border-news-1.5511870



I am getting an error message when trying to open the link...


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

https://news.paxeditions.com/news/other/intention-relax-border-measures-was-welcomed
https://news.paxeditions.com/news/o...d-august-and-those-other-countries-soon-after
Here's two articles, likely similar in content. Both note that info is coming next week (before July 21st, I assume).


----------



## ellbell

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> I am getting an error message when trying to open the link...


I fixed it


----------



## TommyJK

Hoping that the rumoured mid-august re-opening is a possibility (even if still limited).  Hoping to get to use my deferred Cedar Point tickets before the season ends (they're shutting down after Labour Day).

If they eliminate the pre-return test (and only have the arrival test they give you to do at home) I think I'll be driving down the last weekend of August or Labour Day weekend.


----------



## KNovacovschi

What I'm wondering is if the land border opens for fully vaccinated how it would work if you just go for a day. As it stands now you have to have a test to enter the US within 3 days of entering and a test within 72 hours of returning to Canada via land border. If you go for a day will the original test work since technically it is within the timeframe.


----------



## ellbell

KNovacovschi said:


> What I'm wondering is if the land border opens for fully vaccinated how it would work if you just go for a day. As it stands now you have to have a test to enter the US within 3 days of entering and a test within 72 hours of returning to Canada via land border. If you go for a day will the original test work since technically it is within the timeframe.


It should but who is going to pay that for a day trip. That's why I haven't gone or made plans to go.  In order to take a test that gets you into the US and then back into Canada you'd have to pay for one of the$200 tests and in some provinces more.


----------



## PixieT78

KNovacovschi said:


> What I'm wondering is if the land border opens for fully vaccinated how it would work if you just go for a day. As it stands now you have to have a test to enter the US within 3 days of entering and a test within 72 hours of returning to Canada via land border. If you go for a day will the original test work since technically it is within the timeframe.



this is why I think the testing and the land border are linked together. Meaning if one happens, the other will change at the same time.


----------



## KNovacovschi

ellbell said:


> It should but who is going to pay that for a day trip. That's why I haven't gone or made plans to go.  In order to take a test that gets you into the US and then back into Canada you'd have to pay for one of the$200 tests and in some provinces more.



At this point I would, I want to get my packages from the post office. My grandsons born in 2020 Dumbo arrived a week before the shutdown but I wasn't able to get there to pick it up and I have since accumulated packages, lol.


----------



## KNovacovschi

PixieT78 said:


> this is why I think the testing and the land border are linked together. Meaning if one happens, the other will change at the same time.



I hope so.


----------



## scorpsfan

von Monster said:


> That's just what the media has been selling you. Entry into the US can be done via the rapid antigen test available via Shopper's, and entry back into Canada can be done via the NAAT test available at Walgreens.
> 
> For these type of things *always* refer to the government sources directly as opposed to what you read on a forum or in the news. Both the CDC and the Canadian government list the acceptable tests on their respective websites.
> 
> https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/travelers/testing-international-air-travelers.html
> https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid/t...ovid-19-testing-travellers-coming-into-canada



Thanks for clearing that up! When I've searched before, there was an ad for "covid test before travel" and it was $199. Maybe that one is for international air travel, not land border. It still confuses me a little because the land border is obviously international travel.. The rapid antigen one just seems too cheap and too good to be true to be accepted at the border!


----------



## scorpsfan

KNovacovschi said:


> What I'm wondering is if the land border opens for fully vaccinated how it would work if you just go for a day. As it stands now you have to have a test to enter the US within 3 days of entering and a test within 72 hours of returning to Canada via land border. If you go for a day will the original test work since technically it is within the timeframe.



I could see them doing this.. I'm thinking if you're gone for less than 24 hours, you won't need to provide a test to go into the US or to come back to Canada. Maybe anything more than that will require testing, at least at first. The thing that confuses me is the difference between travelling via land or air and the testing requirements. I know it's more risky to travel by air, and not so much by land. Maybe they'll get rid of the testing requirements sooner for land border crossings. I certainly hope so. I'm judging this based on vaccinated people. I'm sure unvaccinated will be requiring testing for quite a while.


----------



## scorpsfan

ellbell said:


> It should but who is going to pay that for a day trip. That's why I haven't gone or made plans to go.  In order to take a test that gets you into the US and then back into Canada you'd have to pay for one of the$200 tests and in some provinces more.



Someone was answering my comment about this and they said the US border would accept the rapid antigen tests that you can get at Shoppers for (I think) $40?!


----------



## ellbell

scorpsfan said:


> Someone was answering my comment about this and they said the US border would accept the rapid antigen tests that you can get at Shoppers for (I think) $40?!


Yes they will but if you are going for a day trip you would need the PCR test to get back into Canada anyway.


----------



## Sue M

ellbell said:


> Looks like things are happening
> 
> https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/u-s...tions-cheers-canada-u-s-border-news-1.5511870


It’s a start!  But for those of us who live near the border, they’d have to ease all this testing and reporting. No ones going to do all that just to nip across for a few hours. Don’t know how they’ll work that. Maybe make exception for day trips. 
They better make it mandatory for US coming across to show valid proof of vaccination!  I’m all for opening up travel, but we must do it safely. US cases are rising due to non vaccinated.


----------



## Sue M

ellbell said:


> It should but who is going to pay that for a day trip. That's why I haven't gone or made plans to go.  In order to take a test that gets you into the US and then back into Canada you'd have to pay for one of the$200 tests and in some provinces more.


Yes they’re going to have to do something about that plus all the reporting, ArriveCAN app ugh. 
Maybe they’ll make exceptions for day trip and just require proof of full vaccination.


----------



## spewey

I see there’s still a lot of confusion about testing requirements. For example, at no time are you ever required to get the “$200” PCR test to board a plane, or cross the border.

To board a plane to the US a Rapid Antigen ($40 at Shoppers in some places) is fine. To come back an NAAT (free at Walgreens) is fine.

And no test of any kind is needed to enter the US by land - that is, if you are allowed to do so (ie Dual Citizen, essential worker). And, technically, if you are a legal resident of Canada somehow driving back, although you are indeed still “required” to provide a negative test, they can’t actually deny you entry no matter what (although you may be told to quarantine).


----------



## TommyJK

spewey said:


> I see there’s still a lot of confusion about testing requirements. For example, at no time are you ever required to get the “$200” PCR test to board a plane, or cross the border.
> 
> To board a plane to the US a Rapid Antigen ($40 at Shoppers in some places) is fine. To come back an NAAT (free at Walgreens) is fine.
> 
> And no test of any kind is needed to enter the US by land - that is, if you are allowed to do so (ie Dual Citizen, essential worker). And, technically, if you are a legal resident of Canada somehow driving back, although you are indeed still “required” to provide a negative test, they can’t actually deny you entry no matter what (although you may be told to quarantine).



While they can't deny you entry, if you show up to the border back to Canada and you didn't have a NAAT test done in the last 72 hrs in the US, you have 2 options.  Go back and get a test done somewhere and wait for the results, or come through and take a $5000 fine (+$1,250 admin fee for a total of $6,250). 

I literally just finished listening to a story on the radio of a guy who (somehow was allowed to) crossed the land border into the US for 5 hours, and then came back.  Since he wasn't going to be there long enough to get a test down there, he tried to show as proof of negative test he had within 72 hours that was done in Canada.  They wouldn't accept that.  They stuck to the letter of the rule that says it has to be a test done in the US (and not just that you had a negative test within the last 72 hours).

Now when it comes to opening the land border for non-essential crossing (which is now rumoured to be mid-August), my guess is that as part of it (whenever it happens) they are going to drop the 72 hours pre-arrival test requirements, and just require you to take the arrival test.  But that's only a guess not based on anything.


----------



## newdeal

spewey said:


> I see there’s still a lot of confusion about testing requirements. For example, at no time are you ever required to get the “$200” PCR test to board a plane, or cross the border.
> 
> To board a plane to the US a Rapid Antigen ($40 at Shoppers in some places) is fine. To come back an NAAT (free at Walgreens) is fine.
> 
> And no test of any kind is needed to enter the US by land - that is, if you are allowed to do so (ie Dual Citizen, essential worker). And, technically, if you are a legal resident of Canada somehow driving back, although you are indeed still “required” to provide a negative test, they can’t actually deny you entry no matter what (although you may be told to quarantine).



Does that $40 test work for Hawaii also?


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

I think the 72 hour return test will be one of the last things they remove as that would open the door for many more people to travel, which they absolutely don't want us doing.


----------



## bcwife76

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> I think the 72 hour return test will be one of the last things they remove as that would open the door for many more people to travel, which they absolutely don't want us doing.


I agree, I don't see that test going away for several more months. Which means no day trips across the border.


----------



## Sue M

I’ll be the first one on that line when they open for day trips!  It’s just not fair, but US grocery stores have so many more options for diabetics.


----------



## dvcdisney

bcwife76 said:


> I agree, I don't see that test going away for several more months. Which means no day trips across the border.



Please don't take this the wrong way, but I really hope you're wrong. I was hoping that the 72 hr test would be the next one to be removed for fully vaccinated people.


----------



## bcwife76

dvcdisney said:


> Please don't take this the wrong way, but I really hope you're wrong. I was hoping that the 72 hr test would be the next one to be removed for fully vaccinated people.


No offense taken! I would LOVE to be wrong on this one. I know for entering the US by plane the testing requirement does not end until December 31st 2021 (unless the CDC rescinds it early) so I can't see Canada taking it away before the US does. However if they could BOTH agree to just a test on arrival, I think a lot of us would be ok with that


----------



## dvcdisney

bcwife76 said:


> No offense taken! I would LOVE to be wrong on this one. I know for entering the US by plane the testing requirement does not end until December 31st 2021 (unless the CDC rescinds it early) so I can't see Canada taking it away before the US does. However if they could BOTH agree to just a test on arrival, I think a lot of us would be ok with that





Since Canada changed the quarantine requirements for fully vaccinated people, I was hoping they would add the pre-test to that exempt list.

And I agree, if an arrival test is needed I think people would be okay with it at this point.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

bcwife76 said:


> No offense taken! I would LOVE to be wrong on this one. I know for entering the US by plane the testing requirement does not end until December 31st 2021 (unless the CDC rescinds it early) so I can't see Canada taking it away before the US does. However if they could BOTH agree to just a test on arrival, I think a lot of us would be ok with that


Yes but the USA doesn’t (at this time) ask for vaccinations. I think the 72 hr test should remain but for those unvaccinated. Many countries ask for a test or proof of vaccine for entry, EU for example


----------



## dvcdisney

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> Yes but the USA doesn’t (at this time) ask for vaccinations. *I think the 72 hr test should remain but for those unvaccinated.* Many countries ask for a test or proof of vaccine for entry, EU for example



Agreed. It makes sense. Once fully vaccinated, we should be afforded the exemption.


----------



## Mikey15

News coming on the border tomorrow morning / afternoon:

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-hea...pdate-on-border-measures-due-to-covid-19.html


----------



## bcwife76

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> Yes but the USA doesn’t (at this time) ask for vaccinations. I think the 72 hr test should remain but for those unvaccinated. Many countries ask for a test or proof of vaccine for entry, EU for example


I think that would be a very good idea!


----------



## CanucksRock

Mikey15 said:


> News coming on the border tomorrow morning / afternoon:
> 
> https://www.canada.ca/en/public-hea...pdate-on-border-measures-due-to-covid-19.html



have they done this before? formal news conference? Otherwise hopefully this means something is changing…


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

Just like TammyLynn33 I can’t wait for tomorrow, so curious now! I don’t think an announcement was posted on the official government website before?


----------



## BlancheNeige7

So anxious for tomorrow!  We have an August trip planned... would love to see the advisory for Fully-Vaccinated go from "Avoid all non essential" to "Exercise a high degree of caution".  This has great implications for Travel Insurance...


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

BlancheNeige7 said:


> So anxious for tomorrow!  We have an August trip planned... would love to see the advisory for Fully-Vaccinated go from "Avoid all non essential" to "Exercise a high degree of caution".  This has great implications for Travel Insurance...


We also have an august trip - flying at this point. We got COVID insurance included with our flights.


----------



## Sue M

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> We also have an august trip - flying at this point. We got COVID insurance included with our flights.


i got Blue Cross, now they’re including covid coverage for fully vaccinated for $10M CAD
i need to get trip interruption insurance now becsuse it’s hurricane season for both Aug & Oct trips.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

Sue M said:


> i got Blue Cross, now they’re including covid coverage for fully vaccinated for $10M CAD
> i need to get trip interruption insurance now becsuse it’s hurricane season for both Aug & Oct trips.


That’s right, I forgot it’s hurricane season and we usually go in August so you’d think I wouldn’t 
We have been at the Detroit airport the night before our Disney trip (august 2012) when Disney world sent us an email Hurricane Isaac was approaching and if we wish we can cancel our trip no penalties. It was our first time going to Disney world and we didn’t even pay attention, honestly we were a little spooked but ended up flying the next morning.
The airline asked us if we wanted to fly out later that afternoon (August 26 2012) and get a travel credit (the flight was overbooked), but we said nope we want to fly out in the morning. Good thing we did as flights later that day ended up being canceled.
We got to Orlando and it was nice and sunny, no sign of anything. It started raining that  night and rained hard the next morning when we decided to head out to Epcot.
It was pouring so hard and I thought... great this will be our trip. We ended up doing the land pavilion first and by the time we got out about 3 hrs later the rain had stopped. It didn’t really rain the rest of the trip, it was just cloudy and overcast the entire week. This was actually nice because it didn’t seem as hot. Hurricane Isaac hit Orlando as a tropical storm after all and really it only rained for about 18 hrs straight, most of it at night.
We almost didn’t go... even the night before our flight it was predicted that Isaac would impact Disney world.
I really didn’t.
In 2019 we were in Disney already when a hurricane was approaching, basically cleared the crowds. Galaxy’s edge just opened and it was a ghost town. It hardly rained, but Disney did shut down some parks at noon one day. 
Anyway just a little story 
I do hope that our trip this August won’t be affected by hurricane, I guess I am so concerned about everything else (DS12 second vaccine next week, covid testing etc etc) that hurricane escapes my mind.
We would go anyway unless Disney canceled our trip. Ugh... Sue! Lol
Now I have to think about hurricane season too and I totally forgot. Lol


----------



## Sue M

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> That’s right, I forgot it’s hurricane season and we usually go in August so you’d think I wouldn’t
> We have been at the Detroit airport the night before our Disney trip (august 2012) when Disney world sent us an email Hurricane Isaac was approaching and if we wish we can cancel our trip no penalties. It was our first time going to Disney world and we didn’t even pay attention, honestly we were a little spooked but ended up flying the next morning.
> The airline asked us if we wanted to fly out later that afternoon (August 26 2012) and get a travel credit (the flight was overbooked), but we said nope we want to fly out in the morning. Good thing we did as flights later that day ended up being canceled.
> We got to Orlando and it was nice and sunny, no sign of anything. It started raining that  night and rained hard the next morning when we decided to head out to Epcot.
> It was pouring so hard and I thought... great this will be our trip. We ended up doing the land pavilion first and by the time we got out about 3 hrs later the rain had stopped. It didn’t really rain the rest of the trip, it was just cloudy and overcast the entire week. This was actually nice because it didn’t seem as hot. Hurricane Isaac hit Orlando as a tropical storm after all and really it only rained for about 18 hrs straight, most of it at night.
> We almost didn’t go... even the night before our flight it was predicted that Isaac would impact Disney world.
> I really didn’t.
> In 2019 we were in Disney already when a hurricane was approaching, basically cleared the crowds. Galaxy’s edge just opened and it was a ghost town. It hardly rained, but Disney did shut down some parks at noon one day.
> Anyway just a little story
> I do hope that our trip this August won’t be affected by hurricane, I guess I am so concerned about everything else (DS12 second vaccine next week, covid testing etc etc) that hurricane escapes my mind.
> We would go anyway unless Disney canceled our trip. Ugh... Sue! Lol
> Now I have to think about hurricane season too and I totally forgot. Lol


You’re lucky. In 2008 we were at Universal when tropical storm Fay arrived. And stalled over Orlando.  For days!  Pouring rain. At that time ride lockers were operated by fingerprints!  The problem was everyone’s fingers were so waterlogged no one had fingerprints to operate the lockers. 
I‘d go too even with hurricane  on the way.  Orlando is in the middle of the state and I’d feel totally safe in a WDW or Universal resort!
I get trip interruption incase there is a hurricane when I am due to leave and airport shuts down and have to stay a few extra days to get a flight home!  It will cover cost of extra hotel days and living expensues, food.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

Sue M said:


> You’re lucky. In 2008 we were at Universal when tropical storm Fay arrived. And stalled over Orlando.  For days!  Pouring rain. At that time ride lockers were operated by fingerprints!  The problem was everyone’s fingers were so waterlogged no one had fingerprints to operate the lockers.
> I‘d go too even with hurricane  on the way.  Orlando is in the middle of the state and I’d feel totally safe in a WDW or Universal resort!
> I get trip interruption incase there is a hurricane when I am due to leave and airport shuts down and have to stay a few extra days to get a flight home!  It will cover cost of extra hotel days and living expensues, food.


Yes lucky so far but you are right, travelling this time of the year there are extra things to consider. If covid wasn’t enough


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

CanucksRock said:


> have they done this before? formal news conference? Otherwise hopefully this means something is changing…



I scrolled through the site and they have literally every single announcement they make there.  They even have July 5th reminder of the travel rules changing, so I wouldn't get too excited.


----------



## MamaLema

Sue M said:


> I’ll be the first one on that line when they open for day trips!  It’s just not fair, but US grocery stores have so many more options for diabetics.


I’ll be in the lane beside you. I can’t wait


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

MamaLema said:


> I’ll be in the lane beside you. I can’t wait


I’ll be behind both of you  
Start the car!


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ottawa-border-measures-reopening-1.6107988
News conference starting in a few minutes


----------



## JETSDAD

Sitting here waiting on the thing to start....fingers crossed!!


----------



## Mikey15

Good summary in CBC article. My coles notes:
Aug 9 12:01am
-Fully vaccinated Americans (& Green Card holders) can travel to Canada without quarantine 
-Canadian citizens of course have right of return already
-Negative test result still needed, but not everyone will need testing on arrival (replaced w randomized screening)
-Kids under 12 won’t have to quarantine 
-Same rule changes for air arrivals

I missed anything formally saying “US border open,” this is a Canadian announcement. Not sure what we’ll hear from CBP on rules for Canadians heading south.


----------



## hdrolfe

I didn't see anything in the announcement that said the land border was opening, it all seemed to speak to flying.


----------



## Jrb1979

hdrolfe said:


> I didn't see anything in the announcement that said the land border was opening, it all seemed to speak to flying.



It's dependant on the US reopening their side.


----------



## pixie_mtl

Mikey15 said:


> Good summary in CBC article. My coles notes:
> Aug 9 12:01am
> -Fully vaccinated Americans (& Green Card holders) can travel to Canada without quarantine
> -Canadian citizens of course have right of return already
> -Negative test result still needed, but not everyone will need testing on arrival (replaced w randomized screening)
> -Kids under 12 won’t have to quarantine
> -Same rule changes for air arrivals
> 
> I missed anything formally saying “US border open,” this is a Canadian announcement. Not sure what we’ll hear from CBP on rules for Canadians heading south.



Yep that's pretty much it. I was hoping the USA would reciprocate with opening their border... I guess we'll know more on July 21.


----------



## Sue M

Mikey15 said:


> Good summary in CBC article. My coles notes:
> Aug 9 12:01am
> -Fully vaccinated Americans (& Green Card holders) can travel to Canada without quarantine
> -Canadian citizens of course have right of return already
> -Negative test result still needed, but not everyone will need testing on arrival (replaced w randomized screening)
> -Kids under 12 won’t have to quarantine
> -Same rule changes for air arrivals
> 
> I missed anything formally saying “US border open,” this is a Canadian announcement. Not sure what we’ll hear from CBP on rules for Canadians heading south.


But 72 hr test still required?  By everyone?


----------



## Jrb1979

Sue M said:


> But 72 hr test still required?  By everyone?


Thats what is sounds like. They did mention if you are doing a day trip you can get a negative test 3 days before and it will be fine.


----------



## Sue M

Jrb1979 said:


> Thats what is sounds like. They did mention if you are doing a day trip you can get a negative test 3 days before and it will be fine.


Guess that leaves out day trips!  Not worth the to pay for it  Plus the US test entering.


----------



## Mikey15

Sue M said:


> Guess that leaves out day trips!  Not worth the to pay for it  Plus the US test entering.



Is the thought though that one test could cover US entry and Canada return within a 72hr window?


----------



## TommyJK

Mikey15 said:


> Is the thought though that one test could cover US entry and Canada return within a 72hr window?



That's how I enterpret it.  I don't see why the one test couldn't be used for both.

That being said, we don't yet know what the US will announce for the border to allow us in via the land border.


----------



## ellbell

Mikey15 said:


> Is the thought though that one test could cover US entry and Canada return within a 72hr window?


It would be fine if the rapid antigen twst was good for both ways but it isn't so if you tested here before leaving you still have to pay for the more expensive test, that would work for US entry but it also needs to work to come back.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

Sue M said:


> Guess that leaves out day trips!  Not worth the to pay for it  Plus the US test entering.


Yes I think we are still a few months away from day trips.


----------



## Sue M

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> Yes I think we are still a few months away from day trips.


Sigh, I think your right.


----------



## Sue M

Mikey15 said:


> Is the thought though that one test could cover US entry and Canada return within a 72hr window?


I guess so but it would have to be the more expensive test. That’s $200 here in BC.


----------



## Juventus

So Aug 9th Americans can travel here via land border crossing?


----------



## PixieT78

Juventus said:


> So Aug 9th Americans can travel here via land border crossing?



Fully vaccinated Americans


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

Juventus said:


> So Aug 9th Americans can travel here via land border crossing?





PixieT78 said:


> Fully vaccinated Americans


I was going to ask that... if it’s just by air like it is TO the states right now, or also via land crossing.
If it’s also land crossing, then I can’t see Americans keeping their land border closed to Canadians much longer either.


----------



## Dawg74

I hope we hear from the USA soon about allowing Canadians through the land border.


----------



## Mikey15

The new Canadian rules kick in three weeks from today so there’s plenty of time there for the US to reciprocate. Actually, since for a lot of people the hangup was never getting into the US (flying, for example, but also Canadians with US status) but having to quarantine after returning to Canada, I could see a lot of Canadians heading south in the next 3 weeks, as long as their return date is Aug 9 or later.


----------



## petunia

So does this mean we can fly from BUF as of Aug 9, but just maintain all of the same testing requirements?


----------



## wdwmom3

Mikey15 said:


> The new Canadian rules kick in three weeks from today so there’s plenty of time there for the US to reciprocate. Actually, since for a lot of people the hangup was never getting into the US (flying, for example, but also Canadians with US status) but having to quarantine after returning to Canada, I could see a lot of Canadians heading south in the next 3 weeks, as long as their return date is Aug 9 or later.



Canadians don’t need to wait until August.   They can travel and come home now without quarantining if they are fully vaccinated.  Really not much changed for Canadians other then the test on arrival if you are vaccinated, and having more airports accept international flights.


----------



## wdwmom3

petunia said:


> So does this mean we can fly from BUF as of Aug 9, but just maintain all of the same testing requirements?



The US hasn’t announced if they will open the land borders for Canadians yet.


----------



## scorpsfan

wdwmom3 said:


> The US hasn’t announced if they will open the land borders for Canadians yet.



I know... COME ON!! 
I don't care about how Americans can come here for non-essential purposes... what about us going there!!! This is frustrating, but they have to announce something soon to reciprocate.


----------



## PixieT78

Doesn't the closure only go until July 21?  They must have a plan??


----------



## mamaofsix

Incredibly interesting that this was not a joint announcement between countries.  U.S. diplomats were the ones being so vocal about us opening the border . . . and they didn't give a reciprocal deal?  Sure, they might announce something in the next few weeks, but this seems petty to not have come to an agreement yet.

The waiting game continues...


----------



## TommyJK

mamaofsix said:


> Incredibly interesting that this was not a joint announcement between countries.  U.S. diplomats were the ones being so vocal about us opening the border . . . and they didn't give a reciprocal deal?  Sure, they might announce something in the next few weeks, but this seems petty to not have come to an agreement yet.
> 
> The waiting game continues...



The current border "closure" expires on the 21st so I'm sure they will have some kind of announcement (good or bad) at that time.  I don't see them not reciprocating as others have mentioned all of the border states have been shouting to re-open because they for sure want our tourism dollars.


----------



## ellbell

If the US drops thetesting requirement I may be able to make a long weekend trip.  Go get tested at a walgreens for free as soon as we arrive and then come home within 72 hours.


----------



## TommyJK

ellbell said:


> If the US drops thetesting requirement I may be able to make a long weekend trip.  Go get tested at a walgreens for free as soon as we arrive and then come home within 72 hours.



How do you get a free test at Walgreens?  When I check their website about it, it mentions this "Show your confirmation email, a valid state ID or driver’s license, and insurance card or voucher."

My thought would be if you don't have those you couldn't get it? (at least for free).  If we as Canadians can indeed get a free one that would be awesome and solve a lot of my problems for a potential upcoming trip.


----------



## ellbell

TommyJK said:


> How do you get a free test at Walgreens?  When I check their website about it, it mentions this "Show your confirmation email, a valid state ID or driver’s license, and insurance card or voucher."
> 
> My thought would be if you don't have those you couldn't get it? (at least for free).  If we as Canadians can indeed get a free one that would be awesome and solve a lot of my problems for a potential upcoming trip.


There is actually another thread on the Canadian board about testing in the US. Rapid ID Now tests are available at walgreens free of charge and Canadians are eligible according to Canadians who have done it or called.


----------



## TommyJK

ellbell said:


> There is actually another thread on the Canadian board about testing in the US. Rapid ID Now tests are available at walgreens free of charge and Canadians are eligible according to Canadians who have done it or called.



Thanks.  I'll check that out.


----------



## grantclaire

Was just watching Buffalo news, the politicians are not happy with the testing requirements for fully vaccinated Americans.


----------



## ellbell

grantclaire said:


> Was just watching Buffalo news, the politicians are not happy with the testing requirements for fully vaccinated Americans.


Hopefully that will push our government to drop it before too long.


----------



## mamaofsix

TommyJK said:


> The current border "closure" expires on the 21st so I'm sure they will have some kind of announcement (good or bad) at that time.  I don't see them not reciprocating as others have mentioned all of the border states have been shouting to re-open because they for sure want our tourism dollars.


I would hope they'd reciprocate, but they haven't for a lot of other countries who fly in.  Americans have been able to visit the UK for a months now if they are fully vaxxed and submit to testing and quarantine - guess who hasn't welcomed them to the U.S. in return?

The U.S. seems to be setting a precedent of not returning the favour if they don't like the terms that their own citizens have to submit to for travel.  I hope this isn't the case for our land border.


----------



## scorpsfan

ellbell said:


> Hopefully that will push our government to drop it before too long.



Hey maybe that'll mean that we don't have to pre-test before crossing into the US at the land border!! (if they don't like that idea for them)


----------



## ellbell

mamaofsix said:


> I would hope they'd reciprocate, but they haven't for a lot of other countries who fly in.  Americans have been able to visit the UK for a months now if they are fully vaxxed and submit to testing and quarantine - guess who hasn't welcomed them to the U.S. in return?
> 
> The U.S. seems to be setting a precedent of not returning the favour if they don't like the terms that their own citizens have to submit to for travel.  I hope this isn't the case for our land border.


Unlikely

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/19/politics/us-canada-border-white-house/index.html


----------



## samsteele

Jrb1979 said:


> It shouldn't matter as only what you got for your 2nd dose is listed on you vaccination record.  I don't think it will matter much for going into the US as I doubt they  will enforce proof of vaccination. I'm all for anyone coming into Canada requiring to download the app


Don't you think eg cruise lines will require full disclosure of both vaccines in their online check-in questionnaire? Failing to fully disclose health info usually means barred from boarding once you arrive at the ship. Headlines today that Norwegian, Princess, etc have deemed mixing/matching vaccines not acceptable to cruise on their ships when departing from a US port. We all hope this changes in the near future and decisions are based on science. But for now, over 1 million Canadians who followed our govt's insistence that we take the first available vaccine to protect our communities are barred from cruising on most ships.

My experience on boarding is that the cruise line also has full access to the US border security (customs & immigration) information. I have watched the cruise line agent read their screen and confirm exactly when I entered the US and the address I was staying while in the US. I didn't provide the cruise line with that info. So once the cruise line finds out about the mixed vax status, they will certainly share that with the US border security. That could get nasty fast.


----------



## mamaofsix

ellbell said:


> Unlikely
> 
> https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/19/politics/us-canada-border-white-house/index.html


Wow, this is pretty discouraging to read.  What in the world is going on that we can't work together??  We have a trip booked for March, but can't afford to fly down and rent a vehicle.  We really need this border to open!


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

mamaofsix said:


> Wow, this is pretty discouraging to read.  What in the world is going on that we can't work together??  We have a trip booked for March, but can't afford to fly down and rent a vehicle.  We really need this border to open!


I think it’s all political at the moment. First it’s the US pushing and pushing for it (supposedly, according to all the other articles) and now that Canada has opened the US won’t?
I honestly believe it’s the way media is now spinning things. Not saying the US will open the land border to Canadians non-essential travel tomorrow, but I can’t see it be too far away now. Let’s remember too that they never closed air travel to us. You can fly to the US for non-essential reasons right now.
I know you want to drive and I do hope that’s coming soon, certainly by March but was just pointing out that Canada has been closed off to the Americans on all entry points. The USA has not been, just land.


----------



## Minniemoo15

scorpsfan said:


> Hey maybe that'll mean that we don't have to pre-test before crossing into the US at the land border!! (if they don't like that idea for them)


You actually don’t need a test to cross into the US at the land border . My husband went for work a couple weeks ago and was scrambling to redo his test that was not done properly (long story). Turns out a pre test is only needed when flying into the US and he didn’t need one at all because he crossed at the land border.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

Minniemoo15 said:


> You actually don’t need a test to cross into the US at the land border . My husband went for work a couple weeks ago and was scrambling to redo his test that was not done properly (long story). Turns out a pre test is only needed when flying into the US and he didn’t need one at all because he crossed at the land border.


I’m guessing it’s because he went for work though.


----------



## mamaofsix

Minniemoo15 said:


> You actually don’t need a test to cross into the US at the land border . My husband went for work a couple weeks ago and was scrambling to redo his test that was not done properly (long story). Turns out a pre test is only needed when flying into the US and he didn’t need one at all because he crossed at the land border.


If your husband was crossing the land border for work, it was because he was considered an essential worker and is exempt.  This thread is about the land border opening for recreational purposes, like vacation travel.  Totally different thing.


----------



## Minniemoo15

mamaofsix said:


> If your husband was crossing the land border for work, it was because he was considered an essential worker and is exempt.  This thread is about the land border opening for recreational purposes, like vacation travel.  Totally different thing.





HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> I’m guessing it’s because he went for work though.



Yes but my point is that there is currently no testing requirements at the land border. I had called US Border Services and they had said testing is only required when entering by air.  When they open to non essential travel it would be something extra they would have to start implementing. Which of course, they could, but I don’t see them adding stricter measures especially for vaccinated Canadians.


----------



## wdwmom3

samsteele said:


> Don't you think eg cruise lines will require full disclosure of both vaccines in their online check-in questionnaire? Failing to fully disclose health info usually means barred from boarding once you arrive at the ship. Headlines today that Norwegian, Princess, etc have deemed mixing/matching vaccines not acceptable to cruise on their ships when departing from a US port. We all hope this changes in the near future and decisions are based on science. But for now, over 1 million Canadians who followed our govt's insistence that we take the first available vaccine to protect our communities are barred from cruising on most ships.
> 
> My experience on boarding is that the cruise line also has full access to the US border security (customs & immigration) information. I have watched the cruise line agent read their screen and confirm exactly when I entered the US and the address I was staying while in the US. I didn't provide the cruise line with that info. So once the cruise line finds out about the mixed vax status, they will certainly share that with the US border security. That could get nasty fast.



Royal had already reversed their decision regarding mixing.  And I’m sure others will follow.  Norwegian is allowing mixing on ships leaving non-us ports.


----------



## Pumpkin1172

wdwmom3 said:


> Royal had already reversed their decision regarding mixing. And I’m sure others will follow. Norwegian is allowing mixing on ships leaving non-us ports.


I do hope that this will be the case going forward.  Not that we immediately have a cruise planned, but when we start to travel again, a cruise is something dh and I would love to do if it was just us going on a little get away. 

It could set a president that would be a slippery slope of vaccine hierarchy, and which vaccines are better than others.  Especially in light of many countries who are struggling to even get 5% of their population immunized and are having trouble procuring vaccine due to the methods needed for it to kept cold.


----------



## Kebby

Does anyone know if travel insurance covers the cost of Covid swabbing?


----------



## petunia

Pumpkin1172 said:


> I do hope that this will be the case going forward.  Not that we immediately have a cruise planned, but when we start to travel again, a cruise is something dh and I would love to do if it was just us going on a little get away.
> 
> It could set a president that would be a slippery slope of vaccine hierarchy, and which vaccines are better than others.  Especially in light of many countries who are struggling to even get 5% of their population immunized and are having trouble procuring vaccine due to the methods needed for it to kept cold.


We are doing a cruise next month (fingers crossed) so I have done some reading on this, I believe different lines are allowing different things, ie some no mixing at all, some allowing moderna and pfizer mix and no other combo  and some allowing mixing if it was the standard/acceptable in your country of receiving them.  Hopefully this will change in time..Im sure theyre scrambling with all the new rules.


----------



## ellbell

petunia said:


> We are doing a cruise next month (fingers crossed) so I have done some reading on this, I believe different lines are allowing different things, ie some no mixing at all, some allowing moderna and pfizer mix and no other combo  and some allowing mixing if it was the standard/acceptable in your country of receiving them.  Hopefully this will change in time..Im sure theyre scrambling with all the new rules.


Quick question as I've been trying to plan a cruise that doesn't get cancelled for ages now.  Are you planning on flying home the day you disembark and if so what cruise line are you sailing with because I know most of them don't do the requires tests to get back into Canada onboard.  That's why I had to cancel my last one. My plan is to cruise with MSC because they don't have any restrictions when it comes to what vaccine you have and if it's mixed but the test is a whole other problem.


----------



## petunia

ellbell said:


> Quick question as I've been trying to plan a cruise that doesn't get cancelled for ages now.  Are you planning on flying home the day you disembark and if so what cruise line are you sailing with because I know most of them don't do the requires tests to get back into Canada onboard.  That's why I had to cancel my last one. My plan is to cruise with MSC because they don't have any restrictions when it comes to what vaccine you have and if it's mixed but the test is a whole other problem.


So right now I think my 2 options are getting one at MCO before we check in before coming home(they do the PCR in 20 minutes), or doing one in Nassau port 72 hrs prior to our flight.


----------



## ellbell

petunia said:


> So right now I think my 2 options are getting one at MCO before we check in before coming home(they do the PCR in 20 minutes), or doing one in Nassau port 72 hrs prior to our flight.


I've heard the MCO ones aren't reliable even if you have an appointment you may not get the test.  I never thought about doing it in another port.


----------



## mamaofsix

Well, another month closed.  This is getting pretty discouraging.


----------



## flav

mamaofsix said:


> Well, another month closed.  This is getting pretty discouraging.


Yes, discouraging and sad also in a way because if it was based on vaccination rates and active cases, the decision would be different. Which brings total uncertainty as to when the rules will change. It makes it hard to plan any trips in 2021 and even 2022.


----------



## mamaofsix

flav said:


> Yes, discouraging and sad also in a way because if it was based on vaccination rates and active cases, the decision would be different. Which brings total uncertainty as to when the rules will change. It makes it hard to plan any trips in 2021 and even 2022.


Agreed.  If anything, it should have been the opposite decision based on the facts.  I thought for sure things would be open by this fall.  Never dreamed our trip in March would be in jeopardy.  Not so certain now...


----------



## Mikey15

Bit of a leap for a 1 month extension to Aug 21 to put a March trip in jeopardybut I get the frustration.

I think we’re seeing government negotiations that were behind-the-scenes spill into the public sphere. Canada wants vaccine proof and testing. US assuredly wants things less strict. Canada called US bluff by allowing Americans in again. US is standing & playing hardball by not reciprocating, while probably angling behind the scenes for softening of requirements.


----------



## spewey

Mikey15 said:


> Bit of a leap for a 1 month extension to Aug 21 to put a March trip in jeopardybut I get the frustration.
> 
> I think we’re seeing government negotiations that were behind-the-scenes spill into the public sphere. Canada wants vaccine proof and testing. US assuredly wants things less strict. Canada called US bluff by allowing Americans in again. US is standing & playing hardball by not reciprocating, while probably angling behind the scenes for softening of requirements.



This. 

I too was immediately discouraged - and frankly puzzled - by the US extension, as it doesn't really follow the science (assuming vaccines do their job, which they certainly seem to be). The same is true, I feel, of leaving the pre-return test in place for vaccinated Canadians. Then again I've always thought the value of testing asymptomatic people was perhaps overrated - but that's another story ...

However after some reflection it could be - I hope - that this the the beginning of the end of the status quo, with key details to be worked out, both politically and operationally. That is - can the US open the Northern border, but not the Southern? Are they comfortable with not mandating tourists be vaccinated if we do? And if they reciprocate, how exactly will they check our status - it's not like they have an app we can download, even one as bare-bones as ArriveCan.

My gut says all these are being worked on, as the extension was not well received seemingly by anyone. Chuck Schumer, for example, who is the second or third most powerful politician in the States, has put in writing that he will "do everything in his power" to open the border as swiftly as possible.

That's my long way of saying if I had to bet, I'd go with this being the last extension - the wild card of course, as it has been for nearly two years, being the trajectory of the pandemic. Fingers crossed.


----------



## pigletto

Mikey15 said:


> Bit of a leap for a 1 month extension to Aug 21 to put a March trip in jeopardybut I get the frustration.
> 
> I think we’re seeing government negotiations that were behind-the-scenes spill into the public sphere. Canada wants vaccine proof and testing. US assuredly wants things less strict. Canada called US bluff by allowing Americans in again. US is standing & playing hardball by not reciprocating, while probably angling behind the scenes for softening of requirements.


Bingo. I think it's fair to say there's a lot of posturing and strategic moves playing out behind the scenes that aren't always what they appear. It doesn't change much in the short term, but I do think there's info that the public just isn't privy to that makes this confusing if taken at face value.


----------



## Gigi22

petunia said:


> We are doing a cruise next month (fingers crossed) so I have done some reading on this, I believe different lines are allowing different things, ie some no mixing at all, some allowing moderna and pfizer mix and no other combo  and some allowing mixing if it was the standard/acceptable in your country of receiving them.  Hopefully this will change in time..Im sure theyre scrambling with all the new rules.



Wow!  May I ask which cruise line?   I got a message from HAL a few days ago cancelling my spring 2022 cruise.  They re-booked my entire party on a comparable itinerary in 2023.  Waiting to hear the details in a few days.


----------



## bcwife76

Gigi22 said:


> Wow!  May I ask which cruise line?   I got a message from HAL a few days ago cancelling my spring 2022 cruise.  They re-booked my entire party on a comparable itinerary in 2023.  Waiting to hear the details in a few days.


Carnival and Celebrity for sure are not allowing it. Royal and Princess seem to have reversed their stance I believe. Don't know about HAL or MSC. NCL is not allowing it on US cruises but it's fine on their Europe cruises.


----------



## dvcdisney

Mikey15 said:


> Bit of a leap for a 1 month extension to Aug 21 to put a March trip in jeopardybut I get the frustration.
> 
> I think we’re seeing government negotiations that were behind-the-scenes spill into the public sphere. Canada wants vaccine proof and testing. US assuredly wants things less strict. Canada called US bluff by allowing Americans in again. *US is standing & playing hardball by not reciprocating, while probably angling behind the scenes for softening of requirements.*



I agree. This is essentially why there's another extension. US wants less requirements. It's difficult to agree on protocol if the views are different.


----------



## petunia

Gigi22 said:


> Wow!  May I ask which cruise line?   I got a message from HAL a few days ago cancelling my spring 2022 cruise.  They re-booked my entire party on a comparable itinerary in 2023.  Waiting to hear the details in a few days.


Carnival.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

dvcdisney said:


> I agree. This is essentially why there's another extension. US wants less requirements. It's difficult to agree on protocol if the views are different.


I agree with this, the only thing is the US cited rising covid cases as the reason? So if they are even higher next month?


----------



## KNovacovschi

For those mentioning testing at MCO, they are no longer doing it. It was announced yesterday I believe, sometime this week.


----------



## Dawg74

I guess I shouldn’t be surprised but I am really disappointed that the land border didn’t open for us to drive south, I watch for news articles and scan this board constantly watching for signs of change.


----------



## petunia

KNovacovschi said:


> For those mentioning testing at MCO, they are no longer doing it. It was announced yesterday I believe, sometime this week.


Thank you for the update!  Did the company Advent Health itself announce or MCO?


----------



## CanucksRock

It's the Vaccination clinic that closed. Not the Covid Testing!


----------



## petunia

CanucksRock said:


> It's the Vaccination clinic that closed. Not the Covid Testing!


Ok perfect, thank you!


----------



## Gigi22

petunia said:


> Carnival.



Thanks Petunia.  Interesting that they have the same parent company.  It may be the itinerary?  We were going to Australia.


----------



## petunia

Gigi22 said:


> Thanks Petunia.  Interesting that they have the same parent company.  It may be the itinerary?  We were going to Australia.


Yes this is just Caribbean.


----------



## bbangel

Gigi22 said:


> Thanks Petunia.  Interesting that they have the same parent company.  It may be the itinerary?  We were going to Australia.



Australia and New Zealand haven't opened to cruising and have sort of hinted they don't plan to for their upcoming season (our winter 2021/spring 2022)


----------



## Gigi22

bbangel said:


> Australia and New Zealand haven't opened to cruising and have sort of hinted they don't plan to for their upcoming season (our winter 2021/spring 2022)



Thought it must be something like that.  They put us onto a similar itinerary in 2023…At least the 2023 disembarkation will be in Canada, which is way easier for us to handle.  Surely all this mess will largely be over then.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

US has lowered their  travel advisory to Canada to a Level 2 now:

https://news.paxeditions.com/news/b...isory-canada-border-reopening-remains-mystery
Hopefully the that means the land borders will opening sooner than later for folks.


----------



## pigletto

I thought this was related as well. A promised vaccine passport for international travel by Fall could be helpful for land border opening.
https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6137763


----------



## pigletto

I’m not seeing any chatter about the possibility of the U.S. opening the land border to us by the August 21st deadline, and that’s only a week away.  If I were to guess it’s going to be September or October at this point.


----------



## marchingstar

pigletto said:


> I’m not seeing any chatter about the possibility of the U.S. opening the land border to us by the August 21st deadline, and that’s only a week away.  If I were to guess it’s going to be September or October at this point.



i wonder if they’ll wait now to see the outcome of our election. with it being sept 20th, i bet we won’t see a major policy change on sept 21st.


----------



## pigletto

marchingstar said:


> i wonder if they’ll wait now to see the outcome of our election. with it being sept 20th, i bet we won’t see a major policy change on sept 21st.


At first I thought that maybe it would open and that would be a selling point for our current powers that be to take to the polls . I think they’ll announce or give us something to feel good about when it comes travel prior to Sept 20th. Remains to be seen if that will include the US border though.


----------



## pixie_mtl

_ëtre pris entre l'arbre et l'écorce... _That's how I view the US reopening the land border. If they don't plan on reopening their border with Mexico, I don't think they will with ours.


----------



## OnceUponATime15

Just on the morning news.. 

US confirms that the land borders between US/Canada and US/Mexico to remain closed until at least September 21st…


----------



## mamaofsix

OnceUponATime15 said:


> Just on the morning news..
> 
> US confirms that the land borders between US/Canada and US/Mexico to remain closed until at least September 21st…


Man.  Not surprised, but still...


----------



## damo

We have a little house in South Carolina.  They had 3,205 new cases in South Carolina yesterday!!!  They have 1/3 the population of Ontario yet, 6 times the new cases.  With that going on, doesn't matter if the border is open or closed....we still can't risk going down!

The county that our house is in has 6.5 times the cases as our own health county here in Ontario.


----------



## pixie_mtl

I just don't understand how is it "safe" for vaccinated Americans to drive to Canada and we can't  These are strange times


----------



## cari12

I wonder if they’re waiting until the vaccine passports are developed? Would make it easier for border agents to verify vaccine status.


----------



## TommyJK

cari12 said:


> I wonder if they’re waiting until the vaccine passports are developed? Would make it easier for border agents to verify vaccine status.



I'm thinkinking, as others have noted, it may have more to do with the Mexico border.  Perhaps there is difficulty (and perhaps somthing specific too as it relates to the new USMCA that went into affect last summer) in opening one land border and not the other.


----------



## samsteele

US state department officials have denied Canadian border linked to Mexican Border. Suspect some domestic political arm twisting happening between Congress and the mostly Republican Congressmen representing the US border states that desperately want and need Canadian shoppers and visitors. Canada is a casualty of US domestic politics. What else is new.


----------



## TommyJK

samsteele said:


> US state department officials have denied Canadian border linked to Mexican Border. Suspect some domestic political arm twisting happening between Congress and the mostly Republican Congressmen representing the US border states that desperately want and need Canadian shoppers and visitors. Canada is a casualty of US domestic politics. What else is new.



Perhaps not linked to Mexico border, but I would doubt keeping it closed is some kind of political maneuver against Republican members.  

The most vocal states and more importantly the busiest border crossing states (those with the highest land border tracffic) are primarily Democrat run states. One of the most vocal set of politicians calling for re-opening (and probably the most financially impacted) are from NY State, with 2 Democratic Senators, Democratic governor, and majority of congressmen also democrats.  Similar with Michigan and Washington states.


----------



## ottawamom

Reminder, no politics people. We don't want the thread shut down.


----------



## mamaofsix

pixie_mtl said:


> I just don't understand how is it "safe" for vaccinated Americans to drive to Canada and we can't  These are strange times


Exactly.


----------



## Gigi22

It’s been sooooo long…shall we start a pool for the opening date?


----------



## bcwife76

At this point I'd be shocked if it happened in 2021.


----------



## Sue M

cari12 said:


> I wonder if they’re waiting until the vaccine passports are developed? Would make it easier for border agents to verify vaccine status.


I don’t think it has anything to do with vaccine passports since flying into the US they don’t even ask if your vaccinated. Only things they asked us were about our negative Covid test, and that we weren’t having any Covid symptoms.


----------



## Sue M

bcwife76 said:


> At this point I'd be shocked if it happened in 2021.


I had hopes that it would open for my Sept 30th trip. But not promising.  They keep canceling SeaTac-YVR flights so coming home in Oct I have a 7 hr layover in SeaTac. Guess I’ll be spending a lot of time in the lounge. 
I wanted to cancel those flights and drive to Seattle. Ugh


----------



## KNovacovschi

Sue M said:


> I don’t think it has anything to do with vaccine passports since flying into the US they don’t even ask if your vaccinated. Only things they asked us were about our negative Covid test, and that we weren’t having any Covid symptoms.



I agree, I think it has to do with the Mexico border but don’t want to get into it due to no politics being allowed.


----------



## SirDuff

KNovacovschi said:


> I agree, I think it has to do with the Mexico border but don’t want to get into it due to no politics being allowed.



It could be but the US has been slow to open in general.  They are still banning people from Europe (except for Americans and a few other exceptions) even though Europe is wide open to Americans and Canada has announced that people from Europe can enter Canada starting on 9-September.


----------



## pigletto

They don’t have to open to other borders just because they opened to us. They can easily just open to Canada. I just don’t think it’s a priority currently. And opened borders while the delta variant rages is probably bad optics at this point.  I had always thought September or October. I’m not sure what I think now.


----------



## pigletto

I honestly didn’t know where to put this one. USA just put us back on a level 3 travel advisory. I’ll keep my comments to myself .

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/globalnews.ca/news/8153571/us-canada-travel-advisory/amp/


----------



## Madame

pigletto said:


> I honestly didn’t know where to put this one. USA just put us back on a level 3 travel advisory. I’ll keep my comments to myself .
> 
> https://www.google.ca/amp/s/globalnews.ca/news/8153571/us-canada-travel-advisory/amp/


 *biting tongue so hard it’s bleeding*


----------



## badiggio

Unless I read it wrong,It says "unvaccinated".I wouldn't advise"unvaccinated" people to travel either.


----------



## KNovacovschi

badiggio said:


> Unless I read it wrong,It says "unvaccinated".I wouldn't advise"unvaccinated" people to travel either.



That's the way I read it as well. Which unvaccinated Americans cannot come here  anyways.


----------



## pigletto

badiggio said:


> Unless I read it wrong,It says "unvaccinated".I wouldn't advise"unvaccinated" people to travel either.


Correct, and we haven’t and aren’t letting in their unvaccinated travellers so it’s a non sequitur.  Our numbers don’t support the level three advisory . They just took us off it a few weeks ago . 
What did happen yesterday was that the EU removed us from the travel bans and are allowing us in without quarantine and they recommend a travel ban for US citizens. 
Seems a little suspect to me.


----------



## dvcdisney

KNovacovschi said:


> That's the way I read it as well. *Which unvaccinated Americans cannot come here  anyways.*



Exactly!


----------



## DougEMG

pigletto said:


> I honestly didn’t know where to put this one. USA just put us back on a level 3 travel advisory. I’ll keep my comments to myself .
> 
> https://www.google.ca/amp/s/globalnews.ca/news/8153571/us-canada-travel-advisory/amp/



Lets them justify keeping the land border closed!


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

I am not well-versed on the land border saga since it doesn't have much impact in my daily life. However, I was just trying to think of backup plans for travel.

Let's say I fly to Bayonne, NJ or NYC for a cruise. At the end of the cruise I test positive on the ship.  Instead of having to quarantine in the US, can I drive home and cross the land border with a quarantine plan in the ArriveCAN app?

Now, this would obviously be a last ditch effort, but I was just curious of my options.


----------



## ellbell

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> I am not well-versed on the land border saga since it doesn't have much impact in my daily life. However, I was just trying to think of backup plans for travel.
> 
> Let's say I fly to Bayonne, NJ or NYC for a cruise. At the end of the cruise I test positive on the ship.  Instead of having to quarantine in the US, can I drive home and cross the land border with a quarantine plan in the ArriveCAN app?
> 
> Now, this would obviously be a last ditch effort, but I was just curious of my options.


You will not be denied entry into Canada if you are a Canadian Citizen.  Regardless of your covid status.


----------



## Gigi22

ellbell said:


> You will not be denied entry into Canada if you are a Canadian Citizen.  Regardless of your covid status.


Check the website  travel.gc.ca for more information


----------



## ellbell

Gigi22 said:


> Check the website  travel.gc.ca for more information


I stand by my statement.  You will not be denied entry into Canada if you are a Canadian Citizen.  Being denied boarding on to plane is not the same thing.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Ok, I thought that was the case, but I wasn’t if anything had changed recently.
Thanks.


----------



## Donald - my hero

*it's true that you'll be able to enter Canada but I'd be wanting to check what the requirements in the USA are if you test positive. I highly doubt you'd be able to just set out to drive across the country to get to the border? You'd need to stop for gas and food and no one in the car would be able to answer the question "have you been in close contact with someone who tested positive" with the word no.  Here that would immediately mean no service of any kind.  *


----------



## 2Lunds

Donald - my hero said:


> it's true that you'll be able to enter Canada but I'd be wanting to check what the requirements in the USA are if you test positive.* I highly doubt you'd be able to just set out to drive across the country to get to the border?* You'd need to stop for gas and food and no one in the car would be able to answer the question "have you been in close contact with someone who tested positive" with the word no.  Here that would immediately mean no service of any kind.



Very slim pickins for finding a one-way car rental right now as well.


----------



## TigerlilyAJ

Has anyone been to a land border crossing in the pandemic? I'm a dual citizen, and have traveled back and forth five times since March 2020.
The US side is not at all prepared to Covid screen. To me that is the #1 reason Canadians can't drive into the US. Air travel already had more security and more requirements, and you can do a lot before you arrive at the airport. There was already digital infrastructure, which is why you can check in for a flight while still at home. The land border is not set up for all that testing and vax information, there is no correlate to ArriveCAN. Then I think there being no uniform, easy to assess Canadian Covid "passport" makes it even more of a hassle before you consider the additional issues that currently the US doesn't view AstraZeneca or mixed dosages as valid vaccination.
Meanwhile, Canada either does not think people like me exist or wants to be so punitive to deter me from seeing my family that they don't think anyone would actually go for less than a week. My last trip, my first with the testing requirement to re-enter Canada, was my usual three-day stay, so I literally crossed into the U.S. and went straight to my Covid testing appointment for a test that only proves that I didn't already have Covid in Canada before I went to the U.S.
I saw zero American license plates on the cars waiting to enter Canada. No one would go through that much trouble for the usual border-state day excursion into Canada. Only people with property or family, people with a real compelling reason to come and stay for at least a week.
I don't think Canadians will want to do all that to pop over to Buffalo for a couple of days of outlet shopping while they wait for test results to come back (mine took a full 48 hours). So the border states that want and need Canadian travelers won't really get what they want until and unless vaxxed Canadians don't need to have test results in hand at the border.


----------



## mamaofsix

TigerlilyAJ said:


> Has anyone been to a land border crossing in the pandemic? I'm a dual citizen, and have traveled back and forth five times since March 2020.
> The US side is not at all prepared to Covid screen. To me that is the #1 reason Canadians can't drive into the US. Air travel already had more security and more requirements, and you can do a lot before you arrive at the airport. There was already digital infrastructure, which is why you can check in for a flight while still at home. The land border is not set up for all that testing and vax information, there is no correlate to ArriveCAN. Then I think there being no uniform, easy to assess Canadian Covid "passport" makes it even more of a hassle before you consider the additional issues that currently the US doesn't view AstraZeneca or mixed dosages as valid vaccination.
> Meanwhile, Canada either does not think people like me exist or wants to be so punitive to deter me from seeing my family that they don't think anyone would actually go for less than a week. My last trip, my first with the testing requirement to re-enter Canada, was my usual three-day stay, so I literally crossed into the U.S. and went straight to my Covid testing appointment for a test that only proves that I didn't already have Covid in Canada before I went to the U.S.
> I saw zero American license plates on the cars waiting to enter Canada. No one would go through that much trouble for the usual border-state day excursion into Canada. Only people with property or family, people with a real compelling reason to come and stay for at least a week.
> I don't think Canadians will want to do all that to pop over to Buffalo for a couple of days of outlet shopping while they wait for test results to come back (mine took a full 48 hours). So the border states that want and need Canadian travelers won't really get what they want until and unless vaxxed Canadians don't need to have test results in hand at the border.


All the more reason for a vaccine passport.  Hopefully when the border opens, that will be all that is needed - no more testing requirement.


----------



## White Cat

TigerlilyAJ said:


> Has anyone been to a land border crossing in the pandemic? I'm a dual citizen, and have traveled back and forth five times since March 2020.
> The US side is not at all prepared to Covid screen. To me that is the #1 reason Canadians can't drive into the US. Air travel already had more security and more requirements, and you can do a lot before you arrive at the airport. There was already digital infrastructure, which is why you can check in for a flight while still at home. The land border is not set up for all that testing and vax information, there is no correlate to ArriveCAN. Then I think there being no uniform, easy to assess Canadian Covid "passport" makes it even more of a hassle before you consider the additional issues that currently the US doesn't view AstraZeneca or mixed dosages as valid vaccination.
> Meanwhile, Canada either does not think people like me exist or wants to be so punitive to deter me from seeing my family that they don't think anyone would actually go for less than a week. My last trip, my first with the testing requirement to re-enter Canada, was my usual three-day stay, so I literally crossed into the U.S. and went straight to my Covid testing appointment for a test that only proves that I didn't already have Covid in Canada before I went to the U.S.
> I saw zero American license plates on the cars waiting to enter Canada. No one would go through that much trouble for the usual border-state day excursion into Canada. Only people with property or family, people with a real compelling reason to come and stay for at least a week.
> I don't think Canadians will want to do all that to pop over to Buffalo for a couple of days of outlet shopping while they wait for test results to come back (mine took a full 48 hours). So the border states that want and need Canadian travelers won't really get what they want until and unless vaxxed Canadians don't need to have test results in hand at the border.


I’ve driven a USA plated car into Canada and an Ontario plated car into the USA. Thinking of driving my USA plated car back after the Canadian thanksgiving. That’s if I feel like bothering with it.


----------



## White Cat

2Lunds said:


> Very slim pickins for finding a one-way car rental right now as well.


I did find one through Enterprise. Was going to drive it from Niagara in after a flight. Half day usage was like $600. Decided to fly straight to Toronto instead.


----------



## 2Lunds

White Cat said:


> I did find one through Enterprise. Was going to drive it from Niagara in after a flight. Half day usage was like $600. Decided to fly straight to Toronto instead.


Nice.  WDW-wise, I could not find a single location offering one-way rentals to Winnipeg. I gave up after searching about 20 locations in and around Orlando.  I suppose if I called a couple of companies directly I could have better luck, but the whole thing just felt like one more huge roadblock fail so I gave up


----------



## ellbell

White Cat said:


> I did find one through Enterprise. Was going to drive it from Niagara in after a flight. Half day usage was like $600. Decided to fly straight to Toronto instead.


I just checked enterprise and it says one way rentals from Orlando to Toronto are currently unavailable.  Do you mind sharing a link for where you booked?


----------



## pigletto

Not that this will come as a surprise to anyone, but the USA land border will remained closed to Canadians, at least until October 21st.


_The White House did not immediately comment on Friday, but White House coronavirus response coordinator Jeff Zients said on Wednesday that given the Delta variant of the coronavirus, "we will maintain the existing travel restrictions at this point."

U.S. officials and travel industry executives say the White House is set to renew the restrictions before the latest extension expires on Sept. 21._

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coron...o-lift-canadian-travel-restrictions-1.5590886


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

pigletto said:


> Not that this will come as a surprise to anyone, but the USA land border will remained closed to Canadians, at least until October 21st.
> 
> 
> _The White House did not immediately comment on Friday, but White House coronavirus response coordinator Jeff Zients said on Wednesday that given the Delta variant of the coronavirus, "we will maintain the existing travel restrictions at this point."
> 
> U.S. officials and travel industry executives say the White House is set to renew the restrictions before the latest extension expires on Sept. 21._
> 
> https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coron...o-lift-canadian-travel-restrictions-1.5590886


You’re right, definitely not surprised.
I still don’t understand it as it’s very easy (money & testing aside) to fly to the US, they don’t even bat an eye at the US border when you cross by air. We have flown recently and the US border is definitely not closed to Canadians. What is the difference with land border? Anyway not starting a debate, just thinking out loud 
Hoping it will open by Christmas, we hope to drive next time.
Or fly from the US.
Thank you for the update!


----------



## ellbell

pigletto said:


> Not that this will come as a surprise to anyone, but the USA land border will remained closed to Canadians, at least until October 21st.
> 
> 
> _The White House did not immediately comment on Friday, but White House coronavirus response coordinator Jeff Zients said on Wednesday that given the Delta variant of the coronavirus, "we will maintain the existing travel restrictions at this point."
> 
> U.S. officials and travel industry executives say the White House is set to renew the restrictions before the latest extension expires on Sept. 21._
> 
> https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coron...o-lift-canadian-travel-restrictions-1.5590886


I'm actually kinda relieved this time.  I have a flight down on the 25th and I was worried that if they changed the border rules it would come with a vaccination requirement and since I got an AZ and Pfizer mix I wouldn't be considered vaccinated and would have to cancel my trip. 
I would love for the land border to open but I want this vaccine issue to be resolved first.


----------



## 2Lunds

ellbell said:


> I'm actually kinda relieved this time.  I have a flight down on the 25th and I was worried that if they changed the border rules it would come with a vaccination requirement and since* I got an AZ and Pfizer mix I wouldn't be considered vaccinated and would have to cancel my trip.
> I would love for the land border to open but I want this vaccine issue to be resolved first.*


MB just authorized third doses for travelers concerned about this same issue.  Other provinces can't be far behind!


----------



## quandrea

2Lunds said:


> MB just authorized third doses for travelers concerned about this same issue.  Other provinces can't be far behind!


Wonderful news!  Let’s go Ontario!


----------



## Pumpkin1172

ellbell said:


> I'm actually kinda relieved this time. I have a flight down on the 25th and I was worried that if they changed the border rules it would come with a vaccination requirement and since I got an AZ and Pfizer mix I wouldn't be considered vaccinated and would have to cancel my trip.
> I would love for the land border to open but I want this vaccine issue to be resolved first.



I don't think that they will implement that type of a requirement.  If they do...it not only would make many Canadians ineligible, but it would make many from the European countries unable to travel into the US.  They will NEED our travel dollars.  Many countries have mixed dosing, because of availability.    

Once the CDC updates their findings/testing/researching (which they heavily follow recommentations of the WHO) there is a very high probability that they will follow the same guidelines as what the WHO that state the mixed doses are considered " fully vaccinated".  

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.  Honestly, at this rate of the boarder opening, many of us are going to be needing our " booster" and that will be what our second dose was.  I can't help by shake my head at everything thing at this point


----------



## Lori Williamson

Pumpkin1172 said:


> I don't think that they will implement that type of a requirement.  If they do...it not only would make many Canadians ineligible, but it would make many from the European countries unable to travel into the US.  They will NEED our travel dollars.  Many countries have mixed dosing, because of availability.
> 
> Once the CDC updates their findings/testing/researching (which they heavily follow recommentations of the WHO) there is a very high probability that they will follow the same guidelines as what the WHO that state the mixed doses are considered " fully vaccinated".
> 
> It will be interesting to see how this plays out.  Honestly, at this rate of the boarder opening, many of us are going to be needing our " booster" and that will be what our second dose was.  I can't help by shake my head at everything thing at this point


Does the WHO have it on their website saying mixed are considered "fully vaccinated"? I haven't been able to find that yet?


----------



## ellbell

Lori Williamson said:


> Does the WHO have it on their website saying mixed are considered "fully vaccinated"? I haven't been able to find that yet?


No the WHO and CDC do not officially recognize a mixed vaccine series as fully vaccinated.  That's why cryise ships don't allow mixed vaccines from US ports so it's very likely going to be an issue when the allow others into the country and open the border.


----------



## Lori Williamson

This was on another thread, this gives me hope since it was posted on WHO:

https://www.who.int/images/default-...n_facts_horiz-en_30_7_4.jpg?sfvrsn=8fc147fa_3


----------



## ellbell

Pumpkin1172 said:


> I don't think that they will implement that type of a requirement.  If they do...it not only would make many Canadians ineligible, but it would make many from the European countries unable to travel into the US.  They will NEED our travel dollars.  Many countries have mixed dosing, because of availability.
> 
> Once the CDC updates their findings/testing/researching (which they heavily follow recommentations of the WHO) there is a very high probability that they will follow the same guidelines as what the WHO that state the mixed doses are considered " fully vaccinated".
> 
> It will be interesting to see how this plays out.  Honestly, at this rate of the boarder opening, many of us are going to be needing our " booster" and that will be what our second dose was.  I can't help by shake my head at everything thing at this point


According to WHO there isn't enough info to support a mixed dose

https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/coronavirus-disease-(covid-19)-vaccines


----------



## accm

Well this is bad news for me. We have flights scheduled leaving from Detroit for the wine and dine half beginning of November, and I'm not willing to risk that they'll open the border by then. Now I'm looking at flights leaving from Toronto. I either pay way more to fly with Delta, or just get a credit from them and fly Air Canada.


----------



## dvcdisney

So, in November, are we expecting the land border to open to coincide with the US announcement to ease restrictions to fully vaccinated foreign nationals?


----------



## pigletto

dvcdisney said:


> So, in November, are we expecting the land border to open to coincide with the US announcement to ease restrictions to fully vaccinated foreign nationals?


I’m not sure to be honest. I think if they have the program in place to check for vaccine credentials that they would open it up. But they are having trouble with their border with Mexico that could be slowing the process. I’ve given up trying to speculate.


----------



## Cathyn35

accm said:


> Well this is bad news for me. We have flights scheduled leaving from Detroit for the wine and dine half beginning of November, and I'm not willing to risk that they'll open the border by then. Now I'm looking at flights leaving from Toronto. I either pay way more to fly with Delta, or just get a credit from them and fly Air Canada.


Can you fly TO to Detroit? My husband had to do that and it wasn’t too expensive a flight.


----------



## Sue M

pigletto said:


> Not that this will come as a surprise to anyone, but the USA land border will remained closed to Canadians, at least until October 21st.
> 
> 
> _The White House did not immediately comment on Friday, but White House coronavirus response coordinator Jeff Zients said on Wednesday that given the Delta variant of the coronavirus, "we will maintain the existing travel restrictions at this point."
> 
> U.S. officials and travel industry executives say the White House is set to renew the restrictions before the latest extension expires on Sept. 21._
> 
> https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coron...o-lift-canadian-travel-restrictions-1.5590886


Yup I heard that. Ended any hope I had of revising my flights to cancel YVR-SeaTac connection and drive down to SeaTac. My connection coming home is awful. No afternoon/evening connection now. So have to overnight and pick up YVR connection in the morning.  If I could’ve driven across I’d be home in 3 hrs!


----------



## accm

Cathyn35 said:


> Can you fly TO to Detroit? My husband had to do that and it wasn’t too expensive a flight.


I could, but I'd rather just have a direct flight. I'll just end up adding to the list of airlines that I have credit with (WJ, United, and now Delta)


----------



## Jackie5170

Cathyn35 said:


> Can you fly TO to Detroit? My husband had to do that and it wasn’t too expensive a flight.



Wow. Well THAT's a good idea. I have been thinking ahead to a trip next spring and wondering what I would do if, God forbid, the border still weren't open. I'm embarrassed to say this never occurred to me.


----------



## pigletto

Well hold the phone a minute .. this actually looks a little bit promising .. the following is a quote from a CP24 news article about the land border closure that I will link down below.

*Homeland Security Sec. Alejandro Mayorkas, whose department oversees the U.S. border agency, acknowledged the growing frustration during a National Press Club event last week in Washington.

“We had hoped that by now, we would have opened up travel through the ports of entry, but regrettably, because of the Delta variant, we've been delayed in doing so,” Mayorkas said.

The restrictions now include language that make it possible to relax or lift the ban entirely before the start of the next 30-day window, he added.*

_*“Because we've renewed it for 30 days does not necessarily mean that the restriction will last for another 30 days,” Mayorkas said. “We have the ability, of course, to ease it or to eliminate it sooner if the data suggests that we should.”

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/beta.cp24.com/news/2021/9/19/1_5591503.html*_


----------



## pigletto

So it’s really not saying when it will open but it’s the first open acknowledgment of the whys ( and yes the Mexico border is part of it ) , and it’s indicative that pressure is mounting . Overall the most encouraging part is that they’ve added provisions to change or relax the rules before 30 days is up. That doesn’t mean it will open soon but they are anticipating that it could at some point soon . This all makes me feel a bit better as the silence on the issue was starting to feel like it would go on forever.


----------



## accm

pigletto said:


> Well hold the phone a minute .. this actually looks a little bit promising .. the following is a quote from a CP24 news article about the land border closure that I will link down below.
> 
> *Homeland Security Sec. Alejandro Mayorkas, whose department oversees the U.S. border agency, acknowledged the growing frustration during a National Press Club event last week in Washington.
> 
> “We had hoped that by now, we would have opened up travel through the ports of entry, but regrettably, because of the Delta variant, we've been delayed in doing so,” Mayorkas said.
> 
> The restrictions now include language that make it possible to relax or lift the ban entirely before the start of the next 30-day window, he added.*
> 
> _*“Because we've renewed it for 30 days does not necessarily mean that the restriction will last for another 30 days,” Mayorkas said. “We have the ability, of course, to ease it or to eliminate it sooner if the data suggests that we should.”
> 
> https://www.google.ca/amp/s/beta.cp24.com/news/2021/9/19/1_5591503.html*_


I'm not holding my breath. I'm going to book a flight on Air Canada, and leave the Delta flight for now. If by some miracle the border opens by then, I'll cancel the AC flight.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

I think it will also coincide with our vaccine passport and the US figuring out how to manuveur with the proof of vaccination (they are not doing a passport, correct?)


----------



## dvcdisney

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> I think it will also coincide with our vaccine passport and the US figuring out how to manuveur with the proof of vaccination (they are not doing a passport, correct?)



I agree. I don't think the US has anything set up at the land border so a vaccine passport would be easy to show. I don't think they're interested in developing an app like ArriveCan in the near future.

I believe there are certain states which have vaccine cards. So I think they would rather just require a vaccine card with a passport for ease at the land border.


----------



## Sue M

I wonder how they will deal with AZ, mixed AZ/mRNA, or mixed mRNA (Moderna, Pfizer) vaccines. Especially now that they plan on opening up International travel When they start requiring proof of vaccine.  I’m kind of concerned having a mix of mRNA I won’t be considered fully vaccinated by their standards.
The article @pigletto posted says fully vaccinated but US idea of fully vaccinated differs from ours.


----------



## samsteele

Sue M said:


> I wonder how they will deal with AZ, mixed AZ/mRNA, or mixed mRNA (Moderna, Pfizer) vaccines. Especially now that they plan on opening up International travel When they start requiring proof of vaccine. I’m kind of concerned having a mix of mRNA I won’t be considered fully vaccinated by their standards.


I wonder if this will quietly slip by as a non issue. ie I had AZ and Pfizer mix in Ontario and know that on my 2nd vax certificate (Pfizer) it just lists 'Pfizer-Biontech mnRNA' and then below 'You Have Received Two Valid Doses'. No mention of the earlier AZ shot. The airline may not care or take the time to ask beyond the face of that vax certificate when clearing me for boarding. Perhaps certificates of UK and German citizens are similar and don't mention the name of the other shot.  

Will the US really want to delve into each tourist's vax history when the issuing home country doesn't draw attention to it? I guess US immigration in Pearson would have to ask that very pointed question. With everything else going on, will they bother? Guess we'll find out how it unfolds.


----------



## ottawamom

Hopeful point. I hope it works out as I'm in the same boat.


----------



## hdrolfe

For the cruiselines at least, they want to see both receipts. Even though the second one shows Pfizer they want to see that first one because they care about how far apart they are too.


----------



## Starwind

Sue M said:


> I wonder how they will deal with AZ, mixed AZ/mRNA, or mixed mRNA (Moderna, Pfizer) vaccines. Especially now that they plan on opening up International travel When they start requiring proof of vaccine.  I’m kind of concerned having a mix of mRNA I won’t be considered fully vaccinated by their standards.
> The article @pigletto posted says fully vaccinated but US idea of fully vaccinated differs from ours.



The CDC considers a mixed dose of two mRNA vaccines to be fully vaccinated. See https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-.../covid-19-vaccines-us.html#Interchangeability :

QUOTE [ bold added ]

_Using the above strategies, every effort should be made to determine which vaccine product was received as the first dose to ensure completion of the vaccine series with the same product. In exceptional situations in which the mRNA vaccine product given for the first dose cannot be determined or is no longer available, any available mRNA COVID-19 vaccine may be administered at a minimum interval of 28 days between doses to complete the mRNA COVID-19 vaccination series. In situations where the same mRNA vaccine product is temporarily unavailable, it is preferable to delay the second dose to receive the same product than to receive a mixed series using a different product. If two doses of different mRNA COVID-19 vaccine products are administered in these situations (or inadvertently), no additional doses of either product are recommended at this time. *Such persons are considered fully vaccinated against COVID-19 ≥2 weeks after receipt of the second dose of an mRNA vaccine.*_

END QUOTE

From one of the later footnotes, this how the CDC sees mixed mRNA doses administered in the US:  "_Although CDC provides considerations for a mixed series in exceptional circumstances, this is still considered an administration error that requires VAERS reporting as a mixed series is not authorized under the vaccine Emergency Use Authorizations_".

Also, from further down on the page, in the section about people vaccinated outside the US, for those wondering about AZ-AZ [it is fine, since it is WHO-listed and AZ-AZ is the complete dual dose series]:

_Only people who have received all recommended doses of an FDA-approved, FDA-authorized, or WHO-listed COVID-19 vaccine are considered fully vaccinated for the purpose of public health guidance._


----------



## Starwind

samsteele said:


> I wonder if this will quietly slip by as a non issue. ie I had AZ and Pfizer mix in Ontario and know that on my 2nd vax certificate (Pfizer) it just lists 'Pfizer-Biontech mnRNA' and then below 'You Have Received Two Valid Doses'. No mention of the earlier AZ shot. The airline may not care or take the time to ask beyond the face of that vax certificate when clearing me for boarding. Perhaps certificates of UK and German citizens are similar and don't mention the name of the other shot.
> 
> Will the US really want to delve into each tourist's vax history when the issuing home country doesn't draw attention to it? I guess US immigration in Pearson would have to ask that very pointed question. With everything else going on, will they bother? Guess we'll find out how it unfolds.



In many travel-related circumstances where proof of vaccination is required, proof of both doses is needed because the proper time interval between doses is also important to be considered fully vaccinated. It is a combo of:

- proper vaccine
- proper time interval between doses [minimum amount of time, and for some cruises lines a maximum too]
- minimum amount of time since second dose

For entering Canada for example, you need to provide proof of both doses.

SW


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Reopening next month

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/us-canada-border-reopen-1.6208838


----------



## spewey

Sorry it’s late, and I’m on my iPad so having trouble embedding the link - but according to an article just posted minutes ago to the Buffalo News the land border will reopen to Canadians in early November. No testing required.


----------



## OnceUponATime15

spewey said:


> Sorry it’s late, and I’m on my iPad so having trouble embedding the link - but according to an article just posted minutes ago to the Buffalo News the land border will reopen to Canadians in early November. No testing required.



Just saw the same news on twitter!

@CityNews: #BREAKING The United States will reopen the land border to fully vaccinated Canadians next month, according to U.S. Congressman Brian Higgins

( Brian Higgins is the Congressman for the Buffalo Niagara area)


----------



## KNovacovschi

Here is one of many articles regarding the land border opening next month but no date or if mixed vaccines will be acceptable (AZ/mRNA)

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/us-c...T3fug0QgbNV5EBydjHtRWAmQkApdrjDMP9IEa68yELYEc


----------



## Pumpkin1172

KNovacovschi said:


> Here is one of many articles regarding the land border opening next month but no date or if mixed vaccines will be acceptable (AZ/mRNA)


Yes it does.

It talks about how they are leaning towards considering it " fully vaccinated" as the WHO approved it for emergency use.  Let's just hope that this positive trend continues and they will formally accept mixed vaccinations.  I want to look at this through my rose colored glasses and see this as a positive step forward for those of us who have mixed doses, and are waiting holding out breath for them to make a formal statement.


----------



## mamaofsix

HOORAY!  FINALLY!  

Looking forward to hearing the details . . . including whether or not a negative test will also be required.


----------



## mamaofsix

Next up . . . Disney PLEASE release a Canadian park ticket deal!


----------



## pigletto

Oh please accept mixed vaccines. Please please please.  I live right near the border. Being able to cross again easily would be so nice.


----------



## pigletto

*"The sigh of relief coming from northern border communities following this announcement is so loud it can practically be heard on either end of the Peace Bridge," Higgins said in the statement, referring to the span that connects Buffalo, N.Y., to Fort Erie, Ont., and one of the busiest bridges between the two countries. *


----------



## Aug2020distrip

Hmmm I would be tempted to lose out on my west jet companion vouchers and just drive to the closest US city and fly to Florida from there so I don’t need the stress of testing on the way back.


----------



## momof2gr8kids

mamaofsix said:


> HOORAY!  FINALLY!
> 
> Looking forward to hearing the details . . . including whether or not a negative test will also be required.



The article states "If a traveller is fully vaccinated, there will be no requirement for them to show a negative COVID-19 test. "

Unless Canada changes the need for the PCR test to come back in, I don't think those border towns will see the amount of visitors they used to.  We are 40 minutes away and would go often for day trips or overnight for shopping.  We won't do that with an added cost of the PCR test for each of us each time.

Still this is exciting!


----------



## KNovacovschi

Aug2020distrip said:


> Hmmm I would be tempted to lose out on my west jet companion vouchers and just drive to the closest US city and fly to Florida from there so I don’t need the stress of testing on the way back.



But you will still need to test to come back into Canada, it is required. You won’t have to test going to the US.


----------



## accm

That's good news!! I just wished they'd give a date!! My flights to Orlando are November 5th, so I need to decide if I keep the Air Canada (YYZ) or Delta (DTW) flights.


----------



## Aug2020distrip

KNovacovschi said:


> But you will still need to test to come back into Canada, it is required. You won’t have to test going to the US.


 ah darn, ok. I hope Canada changes this for us fully vaxxed Canadians…


----------



## hdrolfe

Aug2020distrip said:


> ah darn, ok. I hope Canada changes this for us fully vaxxed Canadians…



Me too  but I am happy to see the land border opening. Though my mixed vaccine status still has that in question. I will wait and see what happens with that, but am planning on a second dose of Pfizer when I head to Disney end of the month.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

Woo hoo our Disney world Christmas trip may actually happen! Well we were thinking to go anyway but considered canceling as flying from Canada is expensive, add the testing etc. We just did it in August (to California) and it was totally worth it but was really hoping to drive in December. Great news!


----------



## TammyLynn33

Waiting to see if kids can travel over without testing or at all as it says fully vaxxed . 
This may have me flip travel plans back to flying out of Syracuse again ..


----------



## Starwind

Official US DHS statement for lifting land border ban for Canadian non-essential travelers:

Secretary Mayorkas to Allow Fully Vaccinated Travelers from Canada and Mexico to Enter U.S. at Land Borders and Ferry Crossings https://www.dhs.gov/news/2021/10/12...ted-travelers-canada-and-mexico-enter-us-land

QUOTE

_Release Date: 
October 12, 2021

WASHINGTON – Today, Secretary of Homeland Security Alejandro N. Mayorkas announced that, following guidance from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and other public health experts, the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) will amend Title 19 regulations to allow non-essential travelers who have been fully vaccinated for COVID-19 and have appropriate documentation to enter the United States via land and ferry ports of entry (POEs) across the U.S. border.

“In alignment with the new international air travel system that will be implemented in November, we will begin allowing travelers from Mexico and Canada who are fully vaccinated for COVID-19 to enter the United States for non-essential purposes, including to visit friends and family or for tourism, via land and ferry border crossings,” *said Secretary Mayorkas.*  “Cross-border travel creates significant economic activity in our border communities and benefits our broader economy. We are pleased to be taking steps to resume regular travel in a safe and sustainable manner.”

The modifications to the Title 19 regulations will occur in two phases over the next few months.  First, in November, U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) will begin allowing fully vaccinated travelers from Mexico or Canada to enter the United States at land and ferry POEs for non-essential reasons. Travelers will be required to have appropriate paperwork that provides proof of vaccination. Individuals who have not been fully vaccinated for COVID-19 will not be allowed to travel for non-essential purposes from Canada and Mexico into the United States via land and ferry POEs. 

Second, beginning in early January 2022, DHS will require that all inbound foreign national travelers crossing U.S. land or ferry POEs – whether for essential or non-essential reasons – be fully vaccinated for COVID-19 and provide related proof of vaccination. This approach will provide ample time for essential travelers such as truckers, students, and healthcare workers to get vaccinated.

This new travel system will create consistent, stringent protocols for all foreign nationals traveling to the United States – whether by air, land, or ferry – and accounts for the wide availability of COVID-19 vaccinations._

END QUOTE


----------



## quandrea

Starwind said:


> Official US DHS statement for lifting land border ban for Canadian non-essential travelers:
> 
> Secretary Mayorkas to Allow Fully Vaccinated Travelers from Canada and Mexico to Enter U.S. at Land Borders and Ferry Crossings https://www.dhs.gov/news/2021/10/12...ted-travelers-canada-and-mexico-enter-us-land
> 
> QUOTE
> 
> _Release Date:
> October 12, 2021
> 
> WASHINGTON – Today, Secretary of Homeland Security Alejandro N. Mayorkas announced that, following guidance from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and other public health experts, the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) will amend Title 19 regulations to allow non-essential travelers who have been fully vaccinated for COVID-19 and have appropriate documentation to enter the United States via land and ferry ports of entry (POEs) across the U.S. border.
> 
> “In alignment with the new international air travel system that will be implemented in November, we will begin allowing travelers from Mexico and Canada who are fully vaccinated for COVID-19 to enter the United States for non-essential purposes, including to visit friends and family or for tourism, via land and ferry border crossings,” *said Secretary Mayorkas.*  “Cross-border travel creates significant economic activity in our border communities and benefits our broader economy. We are pleased to be taking steps to resume regular travel in a safe and sustainable manner.”
> 
> The modifications to the Title 19 regulations will occur in two phases over the next few months.  First, in November, U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) will begin allowing fully vaccinated travelers from Mexico or Canada to enter the United States at land and ferry POEs for non-essential reasons. Travelers will be required to have appropriate paperwork that provides proof of vaccination. Individuals who have not been fully vaccinated for COVID-19 will not be allowed to travel for non-essential purposes from Canada and Mexico into the United States via land and ferry POEs.
> 
> Second, beginning in early January 2022, DHS will require that all inbound foreign national travelers crossing U.S. land or ferry POEs – whether for essential or non-essential reasons – be fully vaccinated for COVID-19 and provide related proof of vaccination. This approach will provide ample time for essential travelers such as truckers, students, and healthcare workers to get vaccinated.
> 
> This new travel system will create consistent, stringent protocols for all foreign nationals traveling to the United States – whether by air, land, or ferry – and accounts for the wide availability of COVID-19 vaccinations._
> 
> END QUOTE


Maybe I’m dense, but what is the distinction between January and November?


----------



## SirDuff

quandrea said:


> Maybe I’m dense, but what is the distinction between January and November?



In November, foreign national NON-ESSENTIAL travellers need to be fully vaccinated.  In January, ALL foreign national travelers need to be fully vaccinated.


----------



## quandrea

SirDuff said:


> In November, foreign national NON-ESSENTIAL travellers need to be fully vaccinated.  In January, ALL foreign national travelers need to be fully vaccinated.


Thanks for clarifying.


----------



## Mikey15

I’ll need to update myself on where to go to get an appropriate test to return to Canada, and where it’s cheapest, but it’s so nice to finally be able to go and see family and friends again soon!


----------



## ellbell

Mikey15 said:


> I’ll need to update myself on where to go to get an appropriate test to return to Canada, and where it’s cheapest, but it’s so nice to finally be able to go and see family and friends again soon!


Walgreens.  I tested there in Orlando and it was free and I had the results in an hour.  I've already researched where in buffalo that walgreens offers the tests.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1961598531728
Just posting a video that cbc.ca is reporting. I haven't watched it yet.

*U.S. to drop negative COVID-19 test requirement when land border reopens*


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

I have no idea if it also is for air travel.

Edit:  Air travelers still require an antigen test 3 days prior.


----------



## OnceUponATime15

I watched Christa Freeland speak and take questions yesterday, she was at a G7!conference in Washington DC.  She was asked quite a few questions about the land border reopening. 

When asked about testing to come and go for brief trips over to the US in border areas,  the answer was if the US decides to not entry test that is their prerogative, a test will still be needed to cross back into Canada.  

She did state that if you would be gone & back within the 72 hour window required… you could take the test at home before leaving and it would be recognized at the border upon return as a valid test for entry.


----------



## KNovacovschi

OnceUponATime15 said:


> I watched Christa Freeland speak and take questions yesterday, she was at a G7!conference in Washington DC.  She was asked quite a few questions about the land border reopening.
> 
> When asked about testing to come and go for brief trips over to the US in border areas,  the answer was if the US decides to not entry test that is their prerogative, a test will still be needed to cross back into Canada.
> 
> She did state that if you would be gone & back within the 72 hour window required… you could take the test at home before leaving and it would be recognized at the border upon return as a valid test for entry.



The US probably wants to look good. Think about it to go even for a day trip we will be required a negative PCR/NAAT test to return home so for day trips they know we will already have this done. Why would they bother having something extra to check when it’s already done for them, lol.


----------



## azrivest

Since tests in the US are cheaper (even free), who would bother paying a PCR test here in Canada for a short trip to the US?


----------



## ottawamom

OnceUponATime15 said:


> I watched Christa Freeland speak and take questions yesterday, she was at a G7!conference in Washington DC.  She was asked quite a few questions about the land border reopening.
> 
> When asked about testing to come and go for brief trips over to the US in border areas,  the answer was if the US decides to not entry test that is their prerogative, a test will still be needed to cross back into Canada.
> 
> She did state that if you would be gone & back within the 72 hour window required… you could take the test at home before leaving and it would be recognized at the border upon return as a valid test for entry.





KNovacovschi said:


> The US probably wants to look good. Think about it to go even for a day trip we will be required a negative PCR/NAAT test to return home so for day trips they know we will already have this done. Why would they bother having something extra to check when it’s already done for them, lol.


Cash grab for the pharmacies on the part of the government if you ask me. A possible way around that is to stop in at a Walgreens and get one of their free tests (you'd have to stay 24hrs) to get back across the border.

Again I don't see how taking a test before you leave Canada is going to keep Canada safe from another case of Covid. I think the rules need to be different for those who have a trip of less than 72hours. The border has the ability to know when you left the country and when you return.

This is all a moot point for me because I don't even think I qualify to get into states yet (mixed dose)


----------



## nightwing12

looks like nov 8th will be the date it opens https://www.reuters.com/world/us/ex...ional-travel-curbs-nov-8-official-2021-10-15/
hopefully we'll get the guidance on mixed doses soon too.


----------



## Chip#1

azrivest said:


> Since tests in the US are cheaper (even free), who would bother paying a PCR test here in Canada for a short trip to the US?


Smaller town crossings are hard pressed to have a Walgreens or CVS -- DH has been waiting to take his dad across into Montanna to visit family and there is zero testing in the small town they will be visiting. Either needs to drive quite far or go to Regina before and pay for a test.


----------



## ellbell

ottawamom said:


> Cash grab for the pharmacies on the part of the government if you ask me. A possible way around that is to stop in at a Walgreens and get one of their free tests (you'd have to stay 24hrs) to get back across the border.
> 
> Again I don't see how taking a test before you leave Canada is going to keep Canada safe from another case of Covid. I think the rules need to be different for those who have a trip of less than 72hours. The border has the ability to know when you left the country and when you return.
> 
> This is all a moot point for me because I don't even think I qualify to get into states yet (mixed dose)


Chances are you wouldn't need to stay the 24 hours.  I tested at walgreens and had the results in an hour.


----------



## mevelandry

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1961598531728
> Just posting a video that cbc.ca is reporting. I haven't watched it yet.
> 
> *U.S. to drop negative COVID-19 test requirement when land border reopens*



Now, if only they could drop testing for cruises, all our problems would be solved.


----------



## TropicalDIS

Come on, give us the guidance on mixed vaccinations!!


----------



## flav

One thing that isn’t clear to me is what happens if, as Canadian, you show up to the Canadian land border with a positive test. You just declare it and go quarantine at home?

For example, let’s say I take a PCR test in Canada, drive through the US border after it reopens, go shopping or skying, stay the night in the US, get my PCR test results by email the next morning and they are positive. I just show up at the Canadian border anyway because I probably won’t find any place to quarantine two weeks in the US?


----------



## SCCNJ

Josh Wingrove(seems to be a White House reporter) posted on another social media site that mixed doses will be accepted by the US as fully vaccinated!  I'm cautiously optimistic, but we of course need to see an official statement.                              .....but EEEEE!!


----------



## OnceUponATime15

Bloomberg news is reporting mixed vaccination doses will be accepted to enter the US!!


----------



## pigletto

Oh please oh please oh please oh please . I desperately need something to be excited about today ( very bad day) .


----------



## Jo-Anne

OnceUponATime15 said:


> Bloomberg news is reporting mixed vaccination doses will be accepted to enter the US!!


Mixed as in MRNA Pfizer/Moderna mix, or AZ + MRNA mixing?  Hopefully its spelled out as all situations!


----------



## TropicalDIS

SCCNJ said:


> Josh Wingrove(seems to be a White House reporter) posted on another social media site that mixed doses will be accepted by the US as fully vaccinated!  I'm cautiously optimistic, but we of course need to see an official statement.                              .....but EEEEE!!



Excellent find!!! Improved my mood, I appreciate the post!!!!


----------



## TropicalDIS

OnceUponATime15 said:


> Bloomberg news is reporting mixed vaccination doses will be accepted to enter the US!!



That is great news!!! Thanks for updating the thread!!!!!


----------



## bcwife76

Jo-Anne said:


> Mixed as in MRNA Pfizer/Moderna mix, or AZ + MRNA mixing?  Hopefully its spelled out as all situations!


This. I know the FDA is meeting today to discuss mixed vaccines but everything I've read says they are only discussing mixing mRNA. Trying to be optimistic but we've had the rug pulled out many times....


----------



## OnceUponATime15

From the Bloomberg article…

“The U.S. will consider people arriving by plane vaccinated if they received shots that are either authorized by the Food and Drug Administration or have an Emergency Use Listing from the World Health Organization.

The same will likely apply to those arriving by land, said the official, who added that children under 18 are likely to be exempt. *People who have mixed shots from two different providers will be treated as vaccinated, two people said.”*

_The decision to accept WHO-cleared shots not used in the U.S. means millions of travelers who have received doses developed by AstraZeneca Plc, as well as China’s Sinopharm Group and Sinovac Biotech Ltd., will be allowed to enter. _


----------



## hdrolfe

Great news if it will be accepted. Hopefully the cruiselines will also update their processes (but I still plan to get my second Pfizer when I'm on Orlando in 10 days).


----------



## ellbell

I'll believe it when it's official.  To many times they have said mixed is fine and then they go on to say as long as they are both MRNA


----------



## spewey

Like with Canada opening the border to vaxxed Americans, keeping the testing requirement means effectively this change means a lot less than what people think.

There was the hope in border cities that when we allowed Americans in they would resume day/weekend trips and boost the local economies. But the expense and hassle of the tests proved a real deterrent. I think that will be the case here as well.

Don't get me wrong - this is exciting - but it's not like my sister in Windsor can now just pop over to visit our brother in Detroit for lunch. But what really irks me is those in charge glibly offering the option of "testing in Canada and using the results to return on trips of less than 72 hours".

Lets walk through that process. First, you need a molecular test to return - that means the $140- PCR test, not the cheapo Rapid Antigen you can get here at Shoppers to enter the US by plane. Those PCR results often take 48-72 hours. Which means effectively you either pay for the tests and wait for the results, hoping you get them with enough time left over for a day trip, or take the test, drive into the States without knowing the results, and stay there long enough to get the results, not knowing exactly how long that will take. Huh? How is any of that doable in a way that makes sense for a short trip?

Answer is - it doesn't. The testing in Canada option, unless I'm missing something, is simply not practical. Now maybe if they allowed the Rapid tests, sure.

Only way I can see me driving to see my brother for an afternoon would be to try to find a Walgreens somewhere near his place that offers the NAAT test and hope they have appointments available on a day I want to go. Then drive there first, get the test, go visit, and hope the results come back in an hour or two.

I don't know about anyone else, but that does not sound like a relaxing day to me. As long as the current testing requirements stay in place, the land border opening will only really help longer trips that justify all the hoops.


----------



## cari12

spewey said:


> Like with Canada opening the border to vaxxed Americans, keeping the testing requirement means effectively this change means a lot less than what people think.
> 
> There was the hope in border cities that when we allowed Americans in they would resume day/weekend trips and boost the local economies. But the expense and hassle of the tests proved a real deterrent. I think that will be the case here as well.
> 
> Don't get me wrong - this is exciting - but it's not like my sister in Windsor can now just pop over to visit our brother in Detroit for lunch. But what really irks me is those in charge glibly offering the option of "testing in Canada and using the results to return on trips of less than 72 hours".
> 
> Lets walk through that process. First, you need a molecular test to return - that means the $140- PCR test, not the cheapo Rapid Antigen you can get here at Shoppers to enter the US by plane. Those PCR results often take 48-72 hours. Which means effectively you either pay for the tests and wait for the results, hoping you get them with enough time left over for a day trip, or take the test, drive into the States without knowing the results, and stay there long enough to get the results, not knowing exactly how long that will take. Huh? How is any of that doable in a way that makes sense for a short trip?
> 
> Answer is - it doesn't. The testing in Canada option, unless I'm missing something, is simply not practical. Now maybe if they allowed the Rapid tests, sure.
> 
> Only way I can see me driving to see my brother for an afternoon would be to try to find a Walgreens somewhere near his place that offers the NAAT test and hope they have appointments available on a day I want to go. Then drive there first, get the test, go visit, and hope the results come back in an hour or two.
> 
> I don't know about anyone else, but that does not sound like a relaxing day to me. As long as the current testing requirements stay in place, the land border opening will only really help longer trips that justify all the hoops.


Yeah,  I guess because Canada still has a travel advisory to avoid all non-essential travel outside of Canada, they’re not looking to make it much easier for casual trips. They may keep it this way to limit non-essential traveling until they are ready to lift that advisory


----------



## ellbell

spewey said:


> Like with Canada opening the border to vaxxed Americans, keeping the testing requirement means effectively this change means a lot less than what people think.
> 
> There was the hope in border cities that when we allowed Americans in they would resume day/weekend trips and boost the local economies. But the expense and hassle of the tests proved a real deterrent. I think that will be the case here as well.
> 
> Don't get me wrong - this is exciting - but it's not like my sister in Windsor can now just pop over to visit our brother in Detroit for lunch. But what really irks me is those in charge glibly offering the option of "testing in Canada and using the results to return on trips of less than 72 hours".
> 
> Lets walk through that process. First, you need a molecular test to return - that means the $140- PCR test, not the cheapo Rapid Antigen you can get here at Shoppers to enter the US by plane. Those PCR results often take 48-72 hours. Which means effectively you either pay for the tests and wait for the results, hoping you get them with enough time left over for a day trip, or take the test, drive into the States without knowing the results, and stay there long enough to get the results, not knowing exactly how long that will take. Huh? How is any of that doable in a way that makes sense for a short trip?
> 
> Answer is - it doesn't. The testing in Canada option, unless I'm missing something, is simply not practical. Now maybe if they allowed the Rapid tests, sure.
> 
> Only way I can see me driving to see my brother for an afternoon would be to try to find a Walgreens somewhere near his place that offers the NAAT test and hope they have appointments available on a day I want to go. Then drive there first, get the test, go visit, and hope the results come back in an hour or two.
> 
> I don't know about anyone else, but that does not sound like a relaxing day to me. As long as the current testing requirements stay in place, the land border opening will only really help longer trips that justify all the hoops.


I can see your point.  That being said the average person crossing the land border won't just be going for lunch.  I live 45 minutes from the border and would plan a day trip.  Usually these aren't spur of the moment trips because I need to know I'm making it worth my while.  Because I know I'm going I would book a walgreens appointment for the morning I'm going the 2 days before when it's released. My experience is the test comes back within an hour.

Sure this eliminates spur of the moment (not even that if you are able to find an appiintment time before crossing) trips but not necessarily short trips.


----------



## Jrb1979

My hope that by spring this testing junk is done with. Til then I am not traveling outside of Canada. Its not worth the hassle or extra money to go the US.


----------



## TommyJK

Chip#1 said:


> Smaller town crossings are hard pressed to have a Walgreens or CVS -- DH has been waiting to take his dad across into Montanna to visit family and there is zero testing in the small town they will be visiting. Either needs to drive quite far or go to Regina before and pay for a test.



Not only this, but I'm sure the free Walgreens or CVS tests are really only meant for Americans.  Us "smart" Canadians have figured out how to get one though (i.e. putting in your hotel address as your own address so we can book one).  

In the grand scheme of things currently I'm sure those of us who are doing this are going unnoticed.  But if a ton more start doing it, I'm sure it's going to get noticed and Walgreens/CVS are going to figure out a way to close that loophole (and make us pay for it if we want one).


----------



## hdrolfe

TommyJK said:


> Not only this, but I'm sure the free Walgreens or CVS tests are really only meant for Americans.  Us "smart" Canadians have figured out how to get one though (i.e. putting in your hotel address as your own address so we can book one).
> 
> In the grand scheme of things currently I'm sure those of us who are doing this are going unnoticed.  But if a ton more start doing it, I'm sure it's going to get noticed and Walgreens/CVS are going to figure out a way to close that loophole (and make us pay for it if we want one).



I don't know about this, I told BeeperMD that I was Canadian and they said it didn't matter. So maybe the higher ups will change their mind but I don't think the places doing the tests will be bothered.


----------



## ellbell

TommyJK said:


> Not only this, but I'm sure the free Walgreens or CVS tests are really only meant for Americans.  Us "smart" Canadians have figured out how to get one though (i.e. putting in your hotel address as your own address so we can book one).
> 
> In the grand scheme of things currently I'm sure those of us who are doing this are going unnoticed.  But if a ton more start doing it, I'm sure it's going to get noticed and Walgreens/CVS are going to figure out a way to close that loophole (and make us pay for it if we want one).


If that happens then I'll just start lying and going and getting free tests here.  Just say someone I know was exposed. I'm not going to pay for something that they require that isn't effective anyway.

ETA that I also think it's unlikely that it's a loophole.  The border communities have been begging to open the border.  Putting another barrier up by having to make us pay for testing to go home is unlikely


----------



## TammyLynn33

ellbell said:


> If that happens then I'll just start lying and going and getting free tests here.  Just say someone I know was exposed. I'm not going to pay for something that they require that isn't effective anyway.
> 
> ETA that I also think it's unlikely that it's a loophole.  The border communities have been begging to open the border.  Putting another barrier up by having to make us pay for testing to go home is unlikely



So if you’re “lying “ here to get a free test to travel in essence you are delaying a symptomatic person from getting tested and getting their result. So if litt Bobby can’t get squeezed in on a Tuesday and his mom has to miss another day of work because people are taking the spots to travel, just a thought ..


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

mevelandry said:


> Now, if only they could drop testing for cruises, all our problems would be solved.



I actually think the cruise lines NEED the testing.  They are already under great scrutiny even without COVID as "floating petri-dishes".  I would feel much safer being on a ship knowing that A) everyone is vaccinated and B) everyone has had some type of test before boarding.  Their success with these two things alone I just can't see them doing away with it. Especially if the tests are being paid for by the customer.


----------



## ellbell

TammyLynn33 said:


> So if you’re “lying “ here to get a free test to travel in essence you are delaying a symptomatic person from getting tested and getting their result. So if litt Bobby can’t get squeezed in on a Tuesday and his mom has to miss another day of work because people are taking the spots to travel, just a thought ..


In my area many appointments are almost always available for next day. So no I wouldn't be taking anything away from anyone at this point.  It's not like we are at the peak of the pandemic anymore.


----------



## KNovacovschi

OnceUponATime15 said:


> From the Bloomberg article…
> 
> “The U.S. will consider people arriving by plane vaccinated if they received shots that are either authorized by the Food and Drug Administration or have an Emergency Use Listing from the World Health Organization.
> 
> The same will likely apply to those arriving by land, said the official, who added that children under 18 are likely to be exempt. *People who have mixed shots from two different providers will be treated as vaccinated, two people said.”*
> 
> _The decision to accept WHO-cleared shots not used in the U.S. means millions of travelers who have received doses developed by AstraZeneca Plc, as well as China’s Sinopharm Group and Sinovac Biotech Ltd., will be allowed to enter. _



My concern is they say 2 different providers but do they just mean a mix of Pfizer and Moderna or AZ and an mRNA. They've been saying for awhile that AZ is accepted but only if you have two doses of it. At this point the WHO has not approved the mixing of AZ and mRNA so technically at this point they don't have to accept it. I will be not happy if they don't though and hope that they mean the mixing of AZ and mRNA, we listened to our government and that may have screwed a bunch of us, 4 million of us to be exact.


----------



## pigletto

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> I actually think the cruise lines NEED the testing.  They are already under great scrutiny even without COVID as "floating petri-dishes".  I would feel much safer being on a ship knowing that A) everyone is vaccinated and B) everyone has had some type of test before boarding.  Their success with these two things alone I just can't see them doing away with it. Especially if the tests are being paid for by the customer.


This. A Covid infection can spread like wildfire on those ships. They need the testing for a long time. Although I would like to see them bear some of the cost burden considering they need it to safely run .


----------



## Sunelis

ellbell said:


> If that happens then I'll just start lying and going and getting free tests here.  Just say someone I know was exposed. I'm not going to pay for something that they require that isn't effective anyway.
> 
> ETA that I also think it's unlikely that it's a loophole.  The border communities have been begging to open the border.  Putting another barrier up by having to make us pay for testing to go home is unlikely


The free tests in Quebec does not provide us with valid travel documents so even if we wanted to do that we couldn't.


----------



## mevelandry

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> I actually think the cruise lines NEED the testing.  They are already under great scrutiny even without COVID as "floating petri-dishes".  I would feel much safer being on a ship knowing that A) everyone is vaccinated and B) everyone has had some type of test before boarding.  Their success with these two things alone I just can't see them doing away with it. Especially if the tests are being paid for by the customer.



Is it safer? Yes. But I'm not a fan of paying 250$ to get a Qtip down my nose and stressing out about where and when I'll have the test done prior to the cruise to make sure the results are out on time and/or still valid at the time of the cruise.


----------



## ellbell

mevelandry said:


> Is it safer? Yes. But I'm not a fan of paying 250$ to get a Qtip down my nose and stressing out about where and when I'll have the test done prior to the cruise to make sure the results are out on time and/or still valid at the time of the cruise.


Most cruise ship except the rapid antigen test and a lot of them advertise that you can use a monitored at home test.


----------



## TommyJK

hdrolfe said:


> I don't know about this, I told BeeperMD that I was Canadian and they said it didn't matter. So maybe the higher ups will change their mind but I don't think the places doing the tests will be bothered.



Oh I agree that I don't think the pharmacies care at the moment.  They get paid by the gov't or health insurance providers to process all of these tests.  So as long as they keep getting paid they won't care.  But all it takes is the government to notice and change how those tests are being funded for us to lose our free lunches.


----------



## mevelandry

ellbell said:


> Most cruise ship except the rapid antigen test and a lot of them advertise that you can use a monitored at home test.


The tests monitored at home are not available in Canada (Quebec).

The rapid antigen tests are not much cheaper (maybe 200$ last time I checked). Didn’t I read that those are too sensitive and you could test positive for COVID even though you are fully healed? I’m a bit scared of a false positive.


----------



## ellbell

mevelandry said:


> The tests monitored at home are not available in Canada (Quebec).
> 
> The rapid antigen tests are not much cheaper (maybe 200$ last time I checked). Didn’t I read that those are too sensitive and you could test positive for COVID even though you are fully healed? I’m a bit scared of a false positive.


This one ships to Canada and is a PCR tests and says you'd have the results in 24 to 48 hours. You do it yourself and is less than 120 USD.  

https://www.adlhealth.com/air-canada/
Also if you're able to cross the border at anytime beforehand you can buy the rapid antigen tests in the states or ship them to a friend or family member and have them sent to. 

Another alternative is to drive to Ontario and get the rapid antigen test at Shoppers or Costco for 40 or 15 dollars respectively.  There are options and for people who really want to cruise they will get the needed tests.


----------



## KNovacovschi

As of Oct 15th at 7:04pm:

https://www.cp24.com/mobile/news/u-...80o1oJh06u88BDrffb8kp1CJD0GIFAbFNEj8tyCZn3glg
Mixed vaccines (AZ/mRNA combo) will be accepted!!


----------



## OnceUponATime15

*Great news!*

*@CityNewsTO: #BREAKING: Canadians who received doses of two or more different COVID-19 vaccines will be considered eligible to enter the United States next month. *https://bddy.me/3lN9PCK


----------



## 2Lunds

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/u-s-canadian-travellers-mixed-vaccines-1.6213176
Mixers are a go guys...


----------



## Starwind

For those who want the info directly from the CDC:

"Interim Public Health Recommendations for Fully Vaccinated People" https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vaccinated-guidance.html

QUOTE
*Summary of Recent Changes*


Based on evolving evidence, CDC recommends fully vaccinated people get tested 5-7 days after close contact with a person with suspected or confirmed COVID-19.
Added Annex describing what vaccines qualify people as fully vaccinated and how to interpret vaccine records.
END QUOTE

The ANNEX referred to [https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vaccinated-guidance.html#annex] - I HAVE ADDED BOLD to highlight the relevant paragraph re: mixed doses:

QUOTE

*Annex*

In general, people are considered fully vaccinated:

2 weeks after their second dose in a 2-dose series, such as the Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna vaccines, or
2 weeks after a single-dose vaccine, such as Johnson & Johnson’s Janssen vaccine
This guidance applies to COVID-19 vaccines currently approved or authorized for emergency use by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna, and Johnson & Johnson [J&J]/Janssen COVID-19 vaccines), and can be applied to COVID-19 vaccines that have been listed for emergency use by the World Health Organization (such as AstraZeneca/Oxford). Additionally, this guidance can be applied to clinical trial participants from U.S. sites who received all recommended doses of a COVID-19 vaccine that is neither approved nor authorized for use by FDA but is listed for emergency use by WHO, or who have received the full series of an “active” (not placebo) COVID-19 vaccine candidate for which vaccine efficacy has been independently confirmed (e.g., by a data and safety monitoring board). Currently, participants in the U.S.-based AstraZeneca and Novavax COVID-19 vaccine trials meet these criteria. These U.S. participants in COVID-19 vaccine trials can be considered fully vaccinated 2 weeks after they complete the vaccine series, if it has been confirmed that they received “active” vaccine, and not placebo. More information is available at Interim Clinical Considerations for Use of COVID-19 Vaccines | CDC.

_*Interpretation of vaccine records*_*: CDC has not recommended the use of heterologous (i.e., mix-and-match) primary series. However, the use of such strategies (including mixing of mRNA, adenoviral, and mRNA plus adenoviral products) is increasingly common in many countries outside of the United States. Therefore, for the purposes of interpretation of vaccination records, individuals can be considered fully vaccinated ≥2 weeks after receipt of the last dose if they have received any single dose of an FDA approved/authorized or WHO EUL approved single-dose series (i.e., Janssen), or any combination of two doses of an FDA approved/authorized or WHO emergency use listed COVID-19 two-dose series.  The recommended interval between the first and second doses of FDA-approved/authorized and WHO-EUL listed vaccines varies by vaccine type. However, for purposes of interpretation of vaccine records, the second dose in a two dose heterologous series must have been received no earlier than 17 days (21 days with a 4 day grace period) after the first dose.*

The above guidance on interpreting vaccine records does not impact CDC recommendations on primary series vaccination and should not guide clinical practice. 

END QUOTE


----------



## TigerlilyAJ

Just a friendly reminder that for some of us driving across the border is not about shopping or tourism, but about how we see our families. Those short trips are what was/is normal for me with parents that take less time to drive to than the far side of the GTA. So as long as the test requirement stands, I have to pay a $$$ tax for going to see my parents. The new rule that says the test no longer has to be done in the U.S., but instead can be done in Canada, as long as it is done 72 hours or less before I return, highlights the fact that it's a *deterrent*. 
Walk through the ~logic:
If I test on Monday in Ontario, drive to my parents' house, and then return on Wednesday once I get my test results, what has the test proven? What public-health service has the test provided to Canada? Nothing. If I test negative, it was before I even reached the U.S., so who cares? If I test positive, it means I got Covid in Ontario, not the U.S.! So I don't believe public-health experts fear that short driving trips by vaxxed people, esp to go to a home, not a concert, mall, ball game, airport, or other large gathering of people, are a serious Covid threat. The government just wants to keep them to a minimum, and if my children get less time with their grandparents, well, we're just collateral damage.
A public-health specialist on CBC Radio One a few days ago even pointed out that Canada could allow the rapid tests, as they are easier and less expensive, less labour intensive wrt medical personnel administering them (because you can do it yourself), so we could have more tests done and people would test closer to when they re-enter Canada (so after more of their time in a different place, a more relevant time). Those benefits, he felt, override the few false negatives the rapid tests miss, esp as the only people allowed to travel anyway are fully vaxxed.
Sorry, just my weekly vent. Very glad to hear that people with mixed doses are being accepted as fully vaxxed.


----------



## pigletto

.


TigerlilyAJ said:


> Just a friendly reminder that for some of us driving across the border is not about shopping or tourism, but about how we see our families. Those short trips are what was/is normal for me with parents that take less time to drive to than the far side of the GTA. So as long as the test requirement stands, I have to pay a $$$ tax for going to see my parents. The new rule that says the test no longer has to be done in the U.S., but instead can be done in Canada, as long as it is done 72 hours or less before I return, highlights the fact that it's a *deterrent*.
> Walk through the ~logic:
> If I test on Monday in Ontario, drive to my parents' house, and then return on Wednesday once I get my test results, what has the test proven? What public-health service has the test provided to Canada? Nothing. If I test negative, it was before I even reached the U.S., so who cares? If I test positive, it means I got Covid in Ontario, not the U.S.! So I don't believe public-health experts fear that short driving trips by vaxxed people, esp to go to a home, not a concert, mall, ball game, airport, or other large gathering of people, are a serious Covid threat. The government just wants to keep them to a minimum, and if my children get less time with their grandparents, well, we're just collateral damage.
> A public-health specialist on CBC Radio One a few days ago even pointed out that Canada could allow the rapid tests, as they are easier and less expensive, less labour intensive wrt medical personnel administering them (because you can do it yourself), so we could have more tests done and people would test closer to when they re-enter Canada (so after more of their time in a different place, a more relevant time). Those benefits, he felt, override the few false negatives the rapid tests miss, esp as the only people allowed to travel anyway are fully vaxxed.
> Sorry, just my weekly vent. Very glad to hear that people with mixed doses are being accepted as fully vaxxed.


Yep my sister lives in Florida and I’d love to fly down for a weekend and see her and the testing requirements still make prohibitively hard .  I’ve seen my nephew one time since birth . But I’m going to celebrate tonight because it’s been almost two years of fear and uncertainty and defeat and now I get to plan a vacation AND see my family.  I understand your concerns with testing and I hope that things are made easier for you soon.


----------



## ottawamom

I totally agree with your arguement about the testing requirement. I don't think it is based on scientific evidence any longer. My guess would be it will also disappear when the borders open.


----------



## quandrea

TigerlilyAJ said:


> Just a friendly reminder that for some of us driving across the border is not about shopping or tourism, but about how we see our families. Those short trips are what was/is normal for me with parents that take less time to drive to than the far side of the GTA. So as long as the test requirement stands, I have to pay a $$$ tax for going to see my parents. The new rule that says the test no longer has to be done in the U.S., but instead can be done in Canada, as long as it is done 72 hours or less before I return, highlights the fact that it's a *deterrent*.
> Walk through the ~logic:
> If I test on Monday in Ontario, drive to my parents' house, and then return on Wednesday once I get my test results, what has the test proven? What public-health service has the test provided to Canada? Nothing. If I test negative, it was before I even reached the U.S., so who cares? If I test positive, it means I got Covid in Ontario, not the U.S.! So I don't believe public-health experts fear that short driving trips by vaxxed people, esp to go to a home, not a concert, mall, ball game, airport, or other large gathering of people, are a serious Covid threat. The government just wants to keep them to a minimum, and if my children get less time with their grandparents, well, we're just collateral damage.
> A public-health specialist on CBC Radio One a few days ago even pointed out that Canada could allow the rapid tests, as they are easier and less expensive, less labour intensive wrt medical personnel administering them (because you can do it yourself), so we could have more tests done and people would test closer to when they re-enter Canada (so after more of their time in a different place, a more relevant time). Those benefits, he felt, override the few false negatives the rapid tests miss, esp as the only people allowed to travel anyway are fully vaxxed.
> Sorry, just my weekly vent. Very glad to hear that people with mixed doses are being accepted as fully vaxxed.


Agree with all of this!  Write to your federal and provincial representatives.


----------



## alohamom

TigerlilyAJ said:


> If I test on Monday in Ontario, drive to my parents' house, and then return on Wednesday once I get my test results, what has the test proven? What public-health service has the test provided to Canada? Nothing. If I test negative, it was before I even reached the U.S., so who cares? If I test positive, it means I got Covid in Ontario, not the U.S.!



100% agree with you on this, it makes no sense what so ever!
We were talking about it over the dinner table and we were all kind of incredulous about exactly this point.
Ridiculous...


----------



## damo

pigletto said:


> .
> 
> Yep my sister lives in Florida and I’d love to fly down for a weekend and see her and the testing requirements still make prohibitively hard .  I’ve seen my nephew one time since birth . But I’m going to celebrate tonight because it’s been almost two years of fear and uncertainty and defeat and now I get to plan a vacation AND see my family.  I understand your concerns with testing and I hope that things are made easier for you soon.



And covid rates in Florida are dropping so nicely ... 

http://ww11.doh.state.fl.us/comm/_p...gNZKZ1XZcphaWHhYhI4B_Aps4xpHuKAjg_Xk4GFog2HeU


----------



## mevelandry

ellbell said:


> This one ships to Canada and is a PCR tests and says you'd have the results in 24 to 48 hours. You do it yourself and is less than 120 USD.
> 
> https://www.adlhealth.com/air-canada/
> Also if you're able to cross the border at anytime beforehand you can buy the rapid antigen tests in the states or ship them to a friend or family member and have them sent to.
> 
> Another alternative is to drive to Ontario and get the rapid antigen test at Shoppers or Costco for 40 or 15 dollars respectively.  There are options and for people who really want to cruise they will get the needed tests.



I’ll look into the adlhealth test but for our next cruise we are travelling with seniors and this would be too complicated for them. But maybe the next one if necessary. Thanks for the tips.

We could not go to Ontario without adding extra costs (no car, no license) so it probably wouldn’t be worth it. At this point, I am hopeful that once tests are less necessary, costs will be reduced.


----------



## pigletto

damo said:


> And covid rates in Florida are dropping so nicely ...
> 
> http://ww11.doh.state.fl.us/comm/_p...gNZKZ1XZcphaWHhYhI4B_Aps4xpHuKAjg_Xk4GFog2HeU


And look at those vaccination rates !! That’s awesome !
You hear so much about things in the media when they are awful but now that it’s getting better it’s not much of a story anymore . I read the other day that Florida is now 44th in the country for daily positive rates. So it has improved immensely. I feel comfortable going but we will of course follow our comfort level for masking and indoor dining etc .


----------



## damo

pigletto said:


> And look at those vaccination rates !! That’s awesome !
> You hear so much about things in the media when they are awful but now that it’s getting better it’s not much of a story anymore . I read the other day that Florida is now 44th in the country for daily positive rates. So it has improved immensely. I feel comfortable going but we will of course follow our comfort level for masking and indoor dining etc .



Exactly.  You can't go down and just dismiss all of the safety protocols that we have ingrained here in Ontario.

And add onto those vaccination numbers, the number of those that have been infected and recovered over the past 6 months or so.  That adds a couple of million and raises the vaccination rate quite a bit.


----------



## motherof4

We are planning on going  November 12th, my sister is just in the process of moving to Tampa area in Florida from PA. We are planning on doing 4 days at Disney then helping my sister and her husband unpack   I have not booked air yet as I was waiting on announcement from US opening land boarder.  Has anyone thought of flying out of US?  Just wondering what I would need and if I would need to test to fly out of US. It is all so confusing... Jut researching everything now, I will keep you all posted on or decisions and process, but thought I would ask in case anyone else has planned this way.  Flights are way cheaper out of US.


----------



## damo

motherof4 said:


> We are planning on going  November 12th, my sister is just in the process of moving to Tampa area in Florida from PA. We are planning on doing 4 days at Disney then helping my sister and her husband unpack   I have not booked air yet as I was waiting on announcement from US opening land boarder.  Has anyone thought of flying out of US?  Just wondering what I would need and if I would need to test to fly out of US. It is all so confusing... Jut researching everything now, I will keep you all posted on or decisions and process, but thought I would ask in case anyone else has planned this way.  Flights are way cheaper out of US.



You don't need to test going to the US by car.

You will still need to test coming back to Canada whether you are going by air or car.


----------



## motherof4

Yes, but you do need a negative COVID test to fly into the US. My concern would be we get to the Buffalo airport, they see that we are Canadians and ask for our negative COVID test.  I need to look into this a little more and it may be wise for us to just get it done at Shopper’s just in case. I will keep you all posted on my journey.


----------



## Mikey15

motherof4 said:


> Yes, but you do need a negative COVID test to fly into the US. My concern would be we get to the Buffalo airport, they see that we are Canadians and ask for our negative COVID test.  I need to look into this a little more and it may be wise for us to just get it done at Shopper’s just in case. I will keep you all posted on my journey.



Once you’re in the US you’re dealing with TSA and the airline, not CBP and requirements for entry to the US.

If the TSA does not require negative tests for domestic flights, there’s no need to provide a negative result. They aren’t going to only require it of foreign nationals.


----------



## ellbell

motherof4 said:


> Yes, but you do need a negative COVID test to fly into the US. My concern would be we get to the Buffalo airport, they see that we are Canadians and ask for our negative COVID test.  I need to look into this a little more and it may be wise for us to just get it done at Shopper’s just in case. I will keep you all posted on my journey.


They don't care once you are in the US.  They wouldn't know unless you told them if you've been there 4 minutes or 4 months.


----------



## pixie_mtl

Molecular testing requirement for COVID-19 to remain as land border opens: Blair | CBC News


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

cari12 said:


> Yeah,  I guess because Canada still has a travel advisory to avoid all non-essential travel outside of Canada, they’re not looking to make it much easier for casual trips. They may keep it this way to limit non-essential traveling until they are ready to lift that advisory


If we wait til they fully lift that… well might be waiting a long time.
Canada’s health minister said the other day the advisory is there as covid is still ramped “parts of the world”.
It is my hope that they update this advisory soon based on which country you are traveling to/from. Not holding my breath though. Luckily it’s just an advisory.
We are fully vaccinated and travelling is our getting back to normal and living our lives.
All in all, this is amazing news still! Land border open, no tests to drive to USA, mixed vaccines accepted… all of it is great news.


----------



## Susan2771

spewey said:


> Like with Canada opening the border to vaxxed Americans, keeping the testing requirement means effectively this change means a lot less than what people think.
> 
> There was the hope in border cities that when we allowed Americans in they would resume day/weekend trips and boost the local economies. But the expense and hassle of the tests proved a real deterrent. I think that will be the case here as well.
> 
> Don't get me wrong - this is exciting - but it's not like my sister in Windsor can now just pop over to visit our brother in Detroit for lunch. But what really irks me is those in charge glibly offering the option of "testing in Canada and using the results to return on trips of less than 72 hours".
> 
> Lets walk through that process. First, you need a molecular test to return - that means the $140- PCR test, not the cheapo Rapid Antigen you can get here at Shoppers to enter the US by plane. Those PCR results often take 48-72 hours. Which means effectively you either pay for the tests and wait for the results, hoping you get them with enough time left over for a day trip, or take the test, drive into the States without knowing the results, and stay there long enough to get the results, not knowing exactly how long that will take. Huh? How is any of that doable in a way that makes sense for a short trip?
> 
> Answer is - it doesn't. The testing in Canada option, unless I'm missing something, is simply not practical. Now maybe if they allowed the Rapid tests, sure.
> 
> Only way I can see me driving to see my brother for an afternoon would be to try to find a Walgreens somewhere near his place that offers the NAAT test and hope they have appointments available on a day I want to go. Then drive there first, get the test, go visit, and hope the results come back in an hour or two.
> 
> I don't know about anyone else, but that does not sound like a relaxing day to me. As long as the current testing requirements stay in place, the land border opening will only really help longer trips that justify all the hoops.



Canadians need to contact their MP's to have their voices heard on the testing to return back home.  I've emailed my MP.  If we do not have our voices heard, not much changes.


----------



## quandrea

Susan2771 said:


> Canadians need to contact their MP's to have their voices heard on the testing to return back home.  I've emailed my MP.  If we do not have our voices heard, not much changes.


Done. It’s very important that we make our MPs accountable for these decisions.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

Susan2771 said:


> Canadians need to contact their MP's to have their voices heard on the testing to return back home.  I've emailed my MP.  If we do not have our voices heard, not much changes.


Great idea! Can I ask what you said?


----------



## accm

I'm probably in the minority here, but I don't think we're ready to fully drop testing yet. I do think the rules should be changed so that no test is required for land crossings that are less than 72hrs and  antigen testing for vaccinated travelers.


----------



## Susan2771

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> Great idea! Can I ask what you said?



I said what some have said here, and what I have heard on many radio programs and read on the news.  I didn't agree with MP Bill Blair advising Canadians who are planning on a short vehicle trip or to cross the border for the day, how a Canadian should get tested here in Canada, and use those test results to return.  How on earth does that show if a returning Canadian was exposed to the virus while they were across the border?  I shared my personal experience regarding the cost of an average family has to experience paying out for the PCR Tests, and how I felt it was a burden for fully vaccinated Canadians having  to pay for this expensive testing for just a few hours by travelling by vehicle.  I wrote that the messaging coming from our officials was mixed and they should reevaluate the purpose of asking fully vaccinated Canadians to take this expensive and intrusive testing, or to see if there are other tests that other jurisdictions are using around the world like the rapid antigen test when it comes to our land border with the US.  

I did email my MP back on Friday and have not heard anything, not even one of those generic emails saying my email was received.  I don't expect to hear back from previous experience but at least I shared my views and my own experience.


----------



## OnceUponATime15

I emailed my MP yesterday after watching Bill Blair over & over on CP24.
I kept it pretty simple.. I asked how having a covid test at home in Canada prior to a day trip to the US  is going to tell anyone if an exposure on that day trip to the US has possibly infected me with Covid? (which I could then be carrying back into Canada).   Also, testing in the US on a day trip to return the same or next day wouldn’t make much of a difference either - that test would likely be a false negative (too early to be detected) even if I’d picked up the virus while there.


----------



## Susan2771

OnceUponATime15 said:


> I emailed my MP yesterday after watching Bill Blair over & over on CP24.
> I kept it pretty simple.. I asked how having a covid test at home in Canada prior to a day trip to the US  is going to tell anyone if an exposure on that day trip to the US has possibly infected me with Covid? (which I could then be carrying back into Canada).   Also, testing in the US on a day trip to return the same or next day wouldn’t make much of a difference either - that test would likely be a false negative (too early to be detected) even if I’d picked up the virus while there.


That is such a good point about a same day trip test in the US, it would be to soon to test if one had been exposed during their time there.  I didn't think to include that in my email.  That is a great point!!


----------



## 2Lunds

accm said:


> I'm probably in the minority here, but I don't think we're ready to fully drop testing yet. I do think the rules should be changed so that no test is required for land crossings that are less than 72hrs and  antigen testing for vaccinated travelers.



I think a smart, cautious next-step would be providing take-home tests upon arrival.  Positive cases can then isolate at home, rather than face the prospect of being stuck abroad.


----------



## Minniemoo15

I would love if fully vaccinated Canadians took a rapid test on arrival, either by land or air. That would make travel so much easier.


----------



## musika

I agree with previous comments on testing. I think it's a reasonable compromise to look at a rapid test option for those who are vaccinated. The PCR test requirement is definitely keeping us from travel at this stage. Also agree that some level of testing is still needed.


----------



## accm

Minniemoo15 said:


> I would love if fully vaccinated Canadians took a rapid test on arrival, either by land or air. That would make travel so much easier.


What does that really accomplish though, now all those people who might’ve tested positive 3 days before have been in a plane with everyone else.
Airports are also already a disaster without adding testing. Logistically, there’s no way they’d be able to do that.


----------



## 2Lunds

accm said:


> What does that really accomplish though, now all those people who might’ve tested positive 3 days before have been in a plane with everyone else.
> Airports are also already a disaster without adding testing. Logistically, there’s no way they’d be able to do that.


If you're on an airplane right now, you're accepting a certain level of inherent risk.  That risk is further reduced when 100% of passengers are vaccinated.  Even prior to mandatory vaccines, the stats on pre-arrival positive tests from Feb-July is only 0.2%.  Take-home tests would help prevent community spread in the unlikely event of a positive test, and would allow vaccinated folks who choose to travel to do so confidently, knowing that they can return to Canada.


----------



## Minniemoo15

accm said:


> What does that really accomplish though, now all those people who might’ve tested positive 3 days before have been in a plane with everyone else.
> Airports are also already a disaster without adding testing. Logistically, there’s no way they’d be able to do that.


 Agree with @2Lunds … I think the government’s real concern is that I bring COVID back from Florida and spread it to my community. A rapid test for fully vaccinated travellers is an easy and quick way to keep that in check.


----------



## damo

2Lunds said:


> If you're on an airplane right now, you're accepting a certain level of inherent risk.  That risk is further reduced when 100% of passengers are vaccinated.  Even prior to mandatory vaccines, the stats on pre-arrival positive tests from Feb-July is only 0.2%.  Take-home tests would help prevent community spread in the unlikely event of a positive test, and would allow vaccinated folks who choose to travel to do so confidently, knowing that they can return to Canada.



I would even up that ante and have tests upon arrival and tests 3 days later at home.  I'd be perfectly fine with that.  

That would protect way more people than the 3 day testing does now.


----------



## 2Lunds

Minniemoo15 said:


> Agree with @2Lunds … I think the government’s real concern is that I bring COVID back from Florida and spread it to my community. A rapid test for fully vaccinated travellers is an easy and quick way to keep that in check.


----------



## Aug2020distrip

Minniemoo15 said:


> I would love if fully vaccinated Canadians took a rapid test on arrival, either by land or air. That would make travel so much easier.


Omg yes. I would absolutely be ok with this, because at least I would be back in Canada and could work from home. If they are going to keep testing for a bit, I would love for it to switch to this…


----------



## accm

2Lunds said:


> If you're on an airplane right now, you're accepting a certain level of inherent risk.  That risk is further reduced when 100% of passengers are vaccinated.  Even prior to mandatory vaccines, the stats on pre-arrival positive tests from Feb-July is only 0.2%.  Take-home tests would help prevent community spread in the unlikely event of a positive test, and would allow vaccinated folks who choose to travel to do so confidently, knowing that they can return to Canada.


There’s is always risk when going on an airplane. Making the choice to fly knowing that everyone has been tested (even if the testing is flawed) is not the same as not having any checks. And that’s not even counting all the border agents who now would have been exposed, and might not be able to work because of it. I get wanting things to go back to normal, but we’re just not there yet.
I’m also not sure where you’re getting your information from. Only flights originating in Canada will require proof of vaccine, and even then, you won’t have a 100% vaccine rate between children and people who can’t be vaccinated. I’d also love to know where you got your data regarding how many people tested positive on the predeparture test.


----------



## 2Lunds

Apologies all - the stats I quoted were for tests at the land border, not pre-departure by air.

"According to government data, of the 397,497 tests administered at the land border between February and July, 0.2 per cent have returned positive."

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/pha...egative-tests-to-enter-canada-blair-1.5625380


----------



## damo

Unless we know how many people tested positive on their pre-departure test, we really don't know how useful it is.

We really need a more comprehensive study to draw any real conclusions.


----------



## Starwind

damo said:


> Unless we know how many people tested positive on their pre-departure test, we really don't know how useful it is.
> 
> We really need a more comprehensive study to draw any real conclusions.



There has been a study done for air, by Delta and Mayo Clinic

I posted the following in another thread in late September:

It appears one study using real world data has been done, by Delta Airlines, with results out just this month. There are some press articles about it if you are interested. Links to some of them: https://www.airlineratings.com/news...hows-testing-effectively-deters-covid-spread/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2021/09/17/covid-spread-on-planes-testing-study/ https://www.travelpulse.com/news/ai...testing-before-flights-helps-stop-spread.html The study relates to testing prior to plane travel: quote from the last of the linked articles: "_A new study found the risk of exposure to COVID-19 while traveling drops to less than 0.1 percent when all travelers test negative 72 hours before their flight.  According to data from Delta Air Lines and the Mayo Clinic Proceedings, performing a single COVID-19 molecular test within 72 hours of departure could decrease the rate of people actively infected onboard to a level significantly lower than active community infection rates._" They also have some info about the false positive and negative rates they discovered.

And the study itself: https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(21)00644-3/fulltext#relatedArticles


----------



## damo

Starwind said:


> There has been a study done for air, by Delta and Mayo Clinic
> 
> I posted the following in another thread in late September:
> 
> It appears one study using real world data has been done, by Delta Airlines, with results out just this month. There are some press articles about it if you are interested. Links to some of them: https://www.airlineratings.com/news...hows-testing-effectively-deters-covid-spread/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2021/09/17/covid-spread-on-planes-testing-study/ https://www.travelpulse.com/news/ai...testing-before-flights-helps-stop-spread.html The study relates to testing prior to plane travel: quote from the last of the linked articles: "_A new study found the risk of exposure to COVID-19 while traveling drops to less than 0.1 percent when all travelers test negative 72 hours before their flight.  According to data from Delta Air Lines and the Mayo Clinic Proceedings, performing a single COVID-19 molecular test within 72 hours of departure could decrease the rate of people actively infected onboard to a level significantly lower than active community infection rates._" They also have some info about the false positive and negative rates they discovered.
> 
> And the study itself: https://www.mayoclinicproceedings.org/article/S0025-6196(21)00644-3/fulltext#relatedArticles



In that study, there was no control group.  We don't know how people would have fared in other pre-flight testing.  There is no comparison to tests done at any other time, so we really don't know if that timing is optimal.

We also don't know how many people tested positive in that group of passengers at the 3 day mark.  It may have only been a few, it may have been lots.  That information is vital to judge if the test is really necessary. 

All that study is really showing is how many people tested positive/negative...it doesn't really study what combination of testing is optimal.


----------



## Starwind

damo said:


> In that study, there was no control group.  We don't know how people would have fared in other pre-flight testing.  There is no comparison to tests done at any other time, so we really don't know if that timing is optimal.
> 
> We also don't know how many people tested positive in that group of passengers at the 3 day mark.  It may have only been a few, it may have been lots.  That information is vital to judge if the test is really necessary.
> 
> All that study is really showing is how many people tested positive/negative...it doesn't really study what combination of testing is optimal.



There are definitely limitations to the study.

They used the community positivity rates as their comparator to extrapolate how many positives they would have expected w/o any testing. But also note that the testing itself could have served as a deterrent to travel for some people and gave some possible reasons why.

Despite the limitations it is the only study I have seen that even tries looking at the issue.


----------



## pigletto

This thread definitely deserves to be revived today. After a year and seven months, the USA land border has opened to Canadians today.


----------



## mamaofsix

FINALLY, today is the day.  I had no idea when this thread started just how long it was going to take.  

Definitely reason for celebration.


----------



## damo

Here is the wait time website....
https://travel.gc.ca/travelling/border-times-us


----------



## 2Lunds

I have a co-worker driving over today (we live about 1.5hrs from the border and he was lining up last night) so I'll be able to share his experience at least.  He's travelling to Orlando, Naples, then to Louisiana, then flying home to WPG, so we'll get a full run-down on driving and flying.


----------



## KNovacovschi

I’ve been watching wait times at Queenston-Lewiston and Peace Bridge and all things considering the wait times have not been nearly as bad as they say. The longest was at the Peace Bridge at 2am with a 155 min wait but that has dropped drastically. I’m going over for the day on Thursday to pick my stuff up from the post office so hoping border waits stay the same.


----------



## lizzyb

I hope they drop the test for day trippers. Makes no sense and is just a money grab.


----------



## ellbell

KNovacovschi said:


> I’ve been watching wait times at Queenston-Lewiston and Peace Bridge and all things considering the wait times have not been nearly as bad as they say. The longest was at the Peace Bridge at 2am with a 155 min wait but that has dropped drastically. I’m going over for the day on Thursday to pick my stuff up from the post office so hoping border waits stay the same.


I think it helped that they opened the border on a Monday.  I guessing weekend times will be a lot higher this weekend.  

What are you doing for testing?  Are you testing before you go or when you get there?


----------



## KNovacovschi

ellbell said:


> I think it helped that they opened the border on a Monday.  I guessing weekend times will be a lot higher this weekend.
> 
> What are you doing for testing?  Are you testing before you go or when you get there?



Most likely.

I’m going to a location in Milton for a PCR test tomorrow. We were going to go on Saturday for the night but we don’t want to chance the test results from Walgreens or CVS not being received in time so I’m just going to do it tomorrow and go by myself on Thursday.


----------



## archdandy

Our upcoming trip in January is a go now that the border is open!  We are flying out of Buffalo. I know I need to have the PCR test done 72 hours before departing the U.S. but what do I need to cross the border? Will we need another negative test to cross the border or to get on the flight in Buffalo? I'm just confused at this point on what needs to be done before we can leave. Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## tlcdoula

Sorry if this is posted on the thread, we have had a last minute change of plans and are not driving down.  I understand we do not need a test to drive across the border from Canada into the US but do we need to do anything else?  

I am off to look on the us site and see what I can find..


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## hdrolfe

tlcdoula said:


> Sorry if this is posted on the thread, we have had a last minute change of plans and are not driving down.  I understand we do not need a test to drive across the border from Canada into the US but do we need to do anything else?
> 
> I am off to look on the us site and see what I can find..



Essentially:
Driving to US - no test (if vaccinated)
Flying to US - antigen test 

Driving to Canada or Flying to Canada - PCR/Molecular Test


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## Madame

tlcdoula said:


> Sorry if this is posted on the thread, we have had a last minute change of plans and are not driving down.  I understand we do not need a test to drive across the border from Canada into the US but do we need to do anything else?
> 
> I am off to look on the us site and see what I can find..


We're driving too.  All of the instability with regards to US carriers lately and the potential for strikes (someone who works for the TSA hinted in a DVC FB group I'm in, at rotating protest strikes to come leading up to the holidays - didn't specifiy if it was Thanksgiving or Christmas.  We could fly Spirit for $2000 USD, but driving seems the better option at this point and we've done it several times before so not a huge deal.  No test required either


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## motherof4

So as I sit her in Buffalo airport, just wanted to share my experience…crossed over last night, no wait, was a ghost town, showed our passports and answered all the usually including “are you fully vaccinated?”. Did not need to show proof and away we went. Checking into airport this am was a breeze as always, did not need to show anything but our passport and boarding pass.  We did get a Walmart antigen test before we left, just in case as I wasn’t too sure what to expect at the airport!


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## KNovacovschi

I went over yesterday for just a day trip so I could pick my packages up and it was quick and easy. I crossed at Queenston-Lewiston and going to the US I showed my Nexus card and he asked what I was doing and how long I would be there, nothing about vaccinations. There was 1 other car crossing and a couple in duty free. Coming home I had about a 9 min wait and there were about 15-20 other people crossing over. He asked how long I was gone, my license plate number and if I had a negative PCR test. I sat waiting to show him my ArriveCAN QR but he didn’t ask for it as he said it showed when he scanned my Nexus card. All in all it was nice to cross over again.


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## disneyfreak89

KNovacovschi said:


> I went over yesterday for just a day trip so I could pick my packages up and it was quick and easy. I crossed at Queenston-Lewiston and going to the US I showed my Nexus card and he asked what I was doing and how long I would be there, nothing about vaccinations. There was 1 other car crossing and a couple in duty free. Coming home I had about a 9 min wait and there were about 15-20 other people crossing over. He asked how long I was gone, my license plate number and if I had a negative PCR test. I sat waiting to show him my ArriveCAN QR but he didn’t ask for it as he said it showed when he scanned my Nexus card. All in all it was nice to cross over again.



Can I ask where you got your PCR test and how much did it cost?


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## KNovacovschi

disneyfreak89 said:


> Can I ask where you got your PCR test and how much did it cost?



I used Halton Medix. They have 2 locations, 1 in Burlington and 1 in Milton. It was $100 including tax. I did my test Tuesday at 11am and received my results at 4:41am on Wednesday.


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## C&B Young

motherof4 said:


> So as I sit her in Buffalo airport, just wanted to share my experience…crossed over last night, no wait, was a ghost town, showed our passports and answered all the usually including “are you fully vaccinated?”. Did not need to show proof and away we went. Checking into airport this am was a breeze as always, did not need to show anything but our passport and boarding pass.  We did get a Walmart antigen test before we left, just in case as I wasn’t too sure what to expect at the airport!



Thank you for sharing! We'll be doing the same in 2 weeks, hope your trip back goes just as smoothly!


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## disneyfreak89

KNovacovschi said:


> I used Halton Medix. They have 2 locations, 1 in Burlington and 1 in Milton. It was $100 including tax. I did my test Tuesday at 11am and received my results at 4:41am on Wednesday.



Thanks.  Its nice to know there are places to go cheaper than $200!


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## Madame

News coming soon…
https://windsorstar.com/news/nation...Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1637157128


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## hdrolfe

Fingers crosses... if they do away with it first for those out of the country for short trips (vaccinated people I mean, I think they'll still require it for those not vaccinated but perhaps more lenience for children who can't be yet), and then the land border and then (hopefully) flights... maybe by March  that's my hope...


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## TommyJK

Madame said:


> News coming soon…
> https://windsorstar.com/news/nation...Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1637157128



This snippet from the article gives me optimism:

"..*.provincial leaders were to discuss halting the COVID-19 test requirements* *at the border with Prime Minister Justin Trudeau* during a first ministers’ conference call Tuesday evening.   “The consensus is a lot of premiers want to see that,”...... After the conference call, the Prime Minister’s Office confirmed the border testing issue was discussed and said *premiers expressed “wide support” for what the government is planning to do*. "


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## Susan2771

Ottawa nixing molecular COVID test requirement for Canadians taking short trips abroad: sources (msn.com)


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## OnceUponATime15

Happiest news of the day!  Day trip to the Buffalo area for shopping here I come!


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## KNovacovschi

I went over on the 11th and had I known they were going to lift the testing for day trips I would’ve waited so I didn’t have to pay $100 for a PCR test.  Good news though I’m going back in a couple weeks because this girl didn’t make it to Olive Garden or Trader Joes .


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## ellbell

KNovacovschi said:


> I went over on the 11th and had I known they were going to lift the testing for day trips I would’ve waited so I didn’t have to pay $100 for a PCR test.  Good news though I’m going back in a couple weeks because this girl didn’t make it to Olive Garden or Trader Joes .


I am also thinking a day trip will be happening in the next couple weeks if they drop the testing. So much good food and shopping over there.


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## Norton figment

Yikes Michigan is on another Covid wave so if you are going make sure to wear a good fitting mask. 

https://www.michigan.gov/coronavirus/0,9753,7-406-98163_98173---,00.html


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