# Pandora  rides



## gap2368

I am doing the Preview for pandora and was wondering if any one else was going?
 and if any one know if the rides were wheel chair accessible or not. I might be going with a friend that uses an ECV but she can transfer if need be,


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## DisneyOma

Since the rides aren't open yet, you probably will have to wait until they are, or until CMs can ride, etc. FP+ has opened, or so it was posted on another thread - what does MDE state?


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## wilkeliza

DisneyOma said:


> Since the rides aren't open yet, you probably will have to wait until they are, or until CMs can ride, etc. FP+ has opened, or so it was posted on another thread - what does MDE state?



MDE doesn't have any information on trasnfer or anything which I found odd. They would know that information already. Hopefully they come out with the information soon.


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## gap2368

I was hopi g someone someone else was doing the preview too from this board but if I am it I will let you all know I am doing the preview on May20


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## wilkeliza

gap2368 said:


> I was hopi g someone someone else was doing the preview too from this board but if I am it I will let you all know



Do you think it would be information guest services or special services would have already? I imagine the operating manuals have already been written so they know what is up with the ride and the queue.


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## gap2368

good idea I will be down the end of April so I will ask then, I do not trust the phone CM at all. Like I said my friend can transfer but depending on how she is doing is how easy it is for her. I am thinking we will have an easey morning with little to no transfers for her. This way if she has too she should be OK. But if anyone hears anything before hand that would be great to know too.


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## SueM in MN

As far as I know, the only previews so far have been media (and probably some CMs). The first AP previews I've heard of are set for April 8 and 9.

The only things that the MDE app says so far is that Avatar Flight of Passage has a 44 inch height requirement.
There is a video from, I think Good Morning America, that doesn't show the ride itself, but does show the host on one of the attraction seats.
It looks like it is stationary for boarding and would be a fairly easy transfer. I'll see if I can find it.

Everything about the other attraction - Na'vi River Journey - indicates it will be a slow boat ride, similar in feeling to Small World. That includes the MDE app description. Pictures and videos I've seen of the boat look like there could easily be a ramped wheelchair accessible boat.
I would expect the boat to be wheelchair accessible, but not ECV accessible, so a transfer from ECV to wheelchair is very likely.


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## gap2368

there is an CM preview for the 2 weeks before May 13 then AP/ DVC preview from May 13- at lest the 20. ( The AP/DVC is already full as about 3pm EST today) I do not think there will be any previous April.

I do not think my friend can do flight ride so it is good to know that you think ( I know this is not what Disney is saying) but the river ride might be wheel chair accessible incase she is having a hard time with steps this day.


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## SueM in MN

The Disney Blog had links to some of the ABC stories. This is a link to the one of the stories.
http://thedisneyblog.com/2017/03/09/sneak-peek-pandora-world-avatar-good-morning-america/
I took some screenshots from the video and edited them to be brighter.

Apparently, there is a part in the preshow process where guests make movements that are picked up by a computer to create their own Avatar.


The ride itself is a virtual reality ride with 3D googles that were designed to fit over glasses.


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## gap2368

It looks like the flight ride has the harness that comes up on your side and my friend can not have anything touching her side ( sometimes she has to be careful of even the type of close she wears, So thank you for the pictures ( the last one exspasily ) 

 ( if anyone was wondering about the AP preview I was talking about here is the thread about it, I think it starts maybe pg20-25, but like I said it is full. https://www.disboards.com/threads/o...-of-avatar-information-thread.3587311/page-22 )


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## SueM in MN

This was the last view of the ride from the video. I don't know if there is any other part of the ride vehicle - like a back restraint.
It appeared from the video like they stepped up to the ride and swung their legs over the center part. Did not look like a very difficult movement, but it's hard to know what the space is. My assumption is that something probably comes up from below and behind the Rider to form a rear restraint. Don't know though.

The blog describes it as a "metal saddle type device that you straddle like a motorcycle".


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## SueM in MN

Please add questions or information about Pandora attractions to this thread.


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## Simba's Mom

I was wondering how many rides and/or shows there'll be in Pandora.  I heard that there are only two-a river boat cruise and a "Soarin'" type of ride.  Is that correct?


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## gap2368

Simba's Mom said:


> I was wondering how many rides and/or shows there'll be in Pandora.  I heard that there are only two-a river boat cruise and a "Soarin'" type of ride.  Is that correct?


yes


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## wilkeliza

I just saw the accessibility information is available through the mobile website (didn't check app or desktop). Based on what it says Navi river journey will require you to transfer out of wheelchairs and ecvs at the load area and Flight of Passage will require transferring to a wheelchair for the line (like POTC) and then transfer to ride vehicle at load.

I must admit I'm a little disappointed that Navi River is not using wheelchair boats. They aren't that hard and it is clear they chose theme over accessibility.


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## wilkeliza




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## zaksmom

Very disappointing if accurate. 
My son has been looking forward to this ride. Avatar is one of his favorite movies. The main character uses a wheelchair so he was confident they would consider wheelchair users when designing this new land.


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## SueM in MN

These are the website listings for the 2 Avatar attraction.

  I have been told that WDW is not ready to release any further details yet, so all we know so far is what is posted in the app and the website.

I been told both attractions WILL require a transfer to the ride vehicle, but that both will have unique transfer assist devices.
I don't know exactly what that will look like or how it will function, but it definitely means guests won't need to be able to walk a few steps if the transfer devices will work for them.


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## wilkeliza

SueM in MN said:


> These are the website listings for the 2 Avatar attraction.
> 
> View attachment 229841 View attachment 229842 I have been told that WDW is not ready to release any further details yet, so all we know so far is what is posted in the app and the website.
> 
> I been told both attractions WILL require a transfer to the ride vehicle, but that both will have unique transfer assist devices.
> I don't know exactly what that will look like or how it will function, but it definitely means guests won't need to be able to walk a few steps if the transfer devices will work for them.



I wonder if it would be like the lifts used for pools?


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## SueM in MN

wilkeliza said:


> I wonder if it would be like the lifts used for pools?


I have no idea exactly what it means. Something like that would work for some people (probably not my DD).

I can see why the Flight attraction would require transfer because of the description as 'similar to Soarin'.

I will be interested to see what about the Na'vi River Voyage makes it not able to board a wheelchair.


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## mir4mad

Very disappointed as well that the Na'vi River Journey requires a transfer! I expected that from Flight of Passage! But for a boat ride billed as a family, slow thrill ride it should have been made wheelchair accessible! The only way Disney can get around ADA is by adding a drop or hill and I'm guessing that is what they have done. My daughter can not transfer out of her wheelchair! She loves Disney because it's the only place she can go and enjoy attractions in her wheelchair and not feel left out! Avatar is about a guy in a wheelchair choosing the life and body he has in a wheelchair over a body where he is whole again! Come on Disney couldn't you let those in a wheelchair imagine Pandora the way it should be imagined? Where has the magic gone?


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## gap2368

mir4mad said:


> Very disappointed as well that the Na'vi River Journey requires a transfer! I expected that from Flight of Passage! But for a boat ride billed as a family, slow thrill ride it should have been made wheelchair accessible! The only way Disney can get around ADA is by adding a drop or hill and I'm guessing that is what they have done. My daughter can not transfer out of her wheelchair! She loves Disney because it's the only place she go and enjoy attractions in her wheelchair and not feel left out! Avatar is about a guy in a wheelchair choosing the life and body he has in a wheelchair over a body where he is whole again! Come on Disney couldn't you let those in a wheelchair imagine Pandora the way it should be imagined? Where has the magic gone?


I was thinking the same thing, There must be some type of drop. I too am disappointed that people that can not transfer will be left out


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## SueM in MN

I'm sure once it officially opens, people will start posting complete ride thru videos and we will be able to get an idea of  the type of transfer required. There will be more information about the transfer devices, probably before it officially opens. It may be something that does make transfers possible for people sho could not otherwise transfer. We just don't know yet.

I am also disappointed that there is not more accessibility, especially given that the main 'human' character is in a wheelchair.  I could see ways that they could have an alternative experience for people who must stay in wheelchairs or would otherwise not be able to ride the flight attraction. There could be some type of alternate theater experience, possibly even with a moving floor - something similar to Star Tours.
There is not enough information out yet about what features of the boat ride would make a wheelchair accessible boat not work.  I do know that message board discussions had featured a lot of complaints from people hoping it would not just be "Small World Pandora". I have also read that people wrote into Disney saying this and also there were complaints about the Little Mermaid ride in Magic Kingdom saying that it was "not interesting enough" because it was to tame.
 Unfortunately, there are large numbers of people visiting the parks that are expecting "thrills "even if it means the attraction will not be accessible to people who don't want thrills.

The ADA doesn't require ride vehicles be accessible IN a wheelchair. It just requires transfer to be available. It also details the requirements for transfer seats (height, etc) and the size and space requiremts for transfer and for wheelchair accessible spaces (mostly talking theaters).
This is from the ADA Guidelines:

*Accessible Rides*
Each newly constructed or newly designed amusement ride must provide at least one wheelchair space, or at least one ride seat designed for transfer, or a transfer device designed to transfer a person using a wheelchair from the load and unload area to a ride seat. The choice of which type of access that is provided for each ride is left up to the operator or designer.


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## gap2368

I do know some one in a wheel chair that can not transfer ( this person has no body control and the power wheel chair that they use has sids that hold this person, in and keeps them sitting up) they will be there for the AP preview I think they said the 13 or 14. and said they will let me know about the rides. So we may know more then.  But I too hope for some way for all to enjoy the ride some way or another.


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## FortForever

SueM in MN said:


> I do know that message board discussions had featured a lot of complaints from people hoping it would not just be "Small World Pandora". I have also read that people wrote into Disney saying this and also there were complaints about the Little Mermaid ride in Magic Kingdom saying that it was "not interesting enough" because it was to tame.



I cannot begin to imagine how much time a person must have on their hands to write a letter to Disney about Little Mermaid ride being too tame. First of all, it's for children! Second of all, there are plenty of thrill rides they can enjoy at Disney, without making them all scary for little ones.


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## BabyFu18

I'm sad that the boat ride will have a transfer, I would have loved an Avatar themed ride that was similar to small world! I guess people complain about the rides being to tame but those are the type,of rides my family enjoys, something fun and easy that our whole family can enjoy together and no one gets left out!

My guess is there must be a drop in the Na'Vi River Journey and that way the ride doesn't need a wheelchair accessible boat. I'm interested to see what people say about the rides once they are open, and maybe the rides will have great new ways to transfer which is awesome but that still leaves people out who can't transfer at all and I always hate that.


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## KPeveler

I spoke to a CM who walked through the new area and he said there was no drop on the boat ride, so there is little reason there should not be a wheelchair boat.

Also, there is going to be a weigh limit/body size limit for the Flights ride, it is similar to what happened with that ride in the Harry Potter World at Universal.  People must fit into the harness/seat, and be able to maintain the balance to straddle a motorcycle-type seat.  That basically keeps anyone who uses a wheelchair, many amputees, people with balance problems, and people of size will not be able to ride...  

I checked the hearing accessibility accommodations and it lists "handheld captioning" for the ride.  I am not entirely certain how that will work on something that is supposed to be a thrill-type ride.

I am hoping that after the land opens things will make a little more sense.  I would find it shocking they built a whole new land and made it basically inaccessible, especially since it is a movie about a guy in a wheelchair!


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## mir4mad

KPeveler said:


> I spoke to a CM who walked through the new area and he said there was no drop on the boat ride, so there is little reason there should not be a wheelchair boat.
> 
> Also, there is going to be a weigh limit/body size limit for the Flights ride, it is similar to what happened with that ride in the Harry Potter World at Universal.  People must fit into the harness/seat, and be able to maintain the balance to straddle a motorcycle-type seat.  That basically keeps anyone who uses a wheelchair, many amputees, people with balance problems, and people of size will not be able to ride...
> 
> I checked the hearing accessibility accommodations and it lists "handheld captioning" for the ride.  I am not entirely certain how that will work on something that is supposed to be a thrill-type ride.
> 
> I am hoping that after the land opens things will make a little more sense.  I would find it shocking they built a whole new land and made it basically inaccessible, especially since it is a movie about a guy in a wheelchair!



#beyondbelief Unbelievable! This is just even more shocking to me now! No drop and no wheelchair boat? Again... what has happened to the magic?


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## KPeveler

It could be that the CM and the information on the website was mistaken, but it seems unlikely...

I am very disappointed by everything I am hearing about Pandora.  I am hoping I am corrected in my view when I see it...


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## SueM in MN

KPeveler said:


> It could be that the CM and the information on the website was mistaken, but it seems unlikely...
> 
> I am very disappointed by everything I am hearing about Pandora.  I am hoping I am corrected in my view when I see it...


I can verify that both rides at Pandora are "must transfer" from sources at WDW who are able to confirm. 

That part of the website information is correct.


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## Hoodie

KPeveler said:


> I spoke to a CM who walked through the new area and he said there was no drop on the boat ride, so there is little reason there should not be a wheelchair boat.
> 
> Also, there is going to be a weigh limit/body size limit for the Flights ride, it is similar to what happened with that ride in the Harry Potter World at Universal.  People must fit into the harness/seat, and be able to maintain the balance to straddle a motorcycle-type seat.  That basically keeps anyone who uses a wheelchair, many amputees, people with balance problems, and people of size will not be able to ride...
> 
> I checked the hearing accessibility accommodations and it lists "handheld captioning" for the ride.  I am not entirely certain how that will work on something that is supposed to be a thrill-type ride.
> 
> I am hoping that after the land opens things will make a little more sense.  I would find it shocking they built a whole new land and made it basically inaccessible, especially since it is a movie about a guy in a wheelchair!



I know someone who actually has tested Flights.  It's very restrictive by Disney standards, but not quite as restrictive for pooh-sized as HP was.  He did not fit on HP, (not sure if he does with the expanded sizing) but does fit on this one.  It will require balance though.

Inside the Magic Twitter is there right now, posting pictures.  Haven't seen many ride vehicle ones yet though.


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## SueM in MN

Complete ride thru of the Navi River ride from Attractions Magazine. It does not show boarding,but shows unload. 
http://wdwnt.com/blog/2017/04/video-full-navi-river-journey-ride-pandora-world-avatar/


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## SueM in MN

Hoodie said:


> I know someone who actually has tested Flights.  It's very restrictive by Disney standards, but not quite as restrictive for pooh-sized as HP was.  He did not fit on HP, (not sure if he does with the expanded sizing) but does fit on this one.  It will require balance though.
> 
> Inside the Magic Twitter is there right now, posting pictures.  Haven't seen many ride vehicle ones yet though.


I haven't seen photos, but I did pull off some screenshots from previous ABC videos.
They are on page one.

I also just posted a video that Attractions Magazine posted.


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## SueM in MN

wdwinfo (parent of Disboards) has posted some Avatar photos. None of the ride pictures yet, but they will probably post some.

http://www.wdwinfo.com/news-stories/a-sneak-peek-photo-tour-of-pandora-the-world-of-avatar/


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## SueM in MN

Flight of Passage ride queue and ride vehicle video from Inside the Magic:






During the preshow area, there are a variety of lights and sounds, so if you are concerned about those types of things, you will want to watch.


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## SueM in MN

Flight of Passage queue video from Attractions Magazine. This does not show the actual ride vehicles, but has very good views of the preshow process which shows video drawings of the ride vehicles.


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## SueM in MN

These are screen captures of the video drawings from the Attractions Magazine video. 
Even though they are not photos of the actual ride vehicles, they look like they probably would give a pretty good idea of what the ride vehicles would be like.


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## SueM in MN

Flight of Passage queue and preshow video from wdwinfo.com 





And screenshots of the drawings of the ride vehicles from the video.
     

This is a screenshot of the actual ride vehicle


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## Duffy2008

Looks cool thanks for sharing.  Is this more a a simulator ride rather then a ride on a track?


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## SueM in MN

Duffy2008 said:


> Looks cool thanks for sharing.  Is this more a a simulator ride rather then a ride on a track?


I have not ridden it yet (won't for a few months), but this is what I understand about Flights of Passage from what I have read.

Some spoilers - so don't read further if you don't want to know.....





It is a simulator. The preshow explains that because the banshees do not tolerate humans and the Na'vi are much larger than humans, they developed a mechanism that allows you to 'link' with a Na'vi avatar (figure representing you) and get the experience of 'riding' a banshee.
The seats I've shared pictures of are the 'linking mechanism' and guests get on like climbing onto a bicycle. The linking mechanism contains some components that allow guests to 'feel' things like the 'breathing' and some of the other movements of the banshee.

There are reportedly 3 restraints; the picture only shows 2 - a back restraint that comes up behind the rider and a leg restraint. People have also mentioned a chest restraint; I don't know if they just mean that you are leaning against a chest plate on the front of the vehicle or if it is something different. My guess is that they just mean leaning against the chest piece as a restraint and the back restraint pushes you up against it.

The seats are in 2 sections of 8 seats. Reports say:
- the seats stay in place, in a row of 8 seats on a platform
- the platform is in a room and never leaves the room (there is a wall behind the seats where you stow your belongings and people have said they stating in that same 'room' the whole time)
-  the platform apparently makes motions (fairly gentle), but the individual seats don't move independently; they all move together

- the wall in front of the seats opens and that is where you will see the experience
- the wall is right in front of you, so when it opens, there is nothing in front of you
- people have said it's nothing like other attractions, but

has some elements of Soarin' - if your seat in Soarin' didn't move up and into the screen area
and some elements of Star Tours - the whole platform moves, but without as much quick motion as the Star Tours vehicle and with the screen right in front of you, not looking out a 'window'
- multiple people have said the ride includes the sensation of wind blowing at your face as if you are flying towards a wind
- one person reported a bright light at the start
It has been described as gentle moving and some gentle swoops, but no abrupt drops. Some people who have had motion sickness on othe attractions have said they didn't on this; they felt it was because the motions of the 'banshee' matched the experience very well.


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## Duffy2008

Thank you Sue. This is helpful. Ive read some comments that this ride had a weight limit or restriction like the Harry Potter ride so i was wondering about that.  Looks like it wouldnt have a limit, but not sure yet.


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## bluecastle

Thanks for the info on this thread- and thank you Sue for putting the link on the Pandora thread! I am so glad I found this. I will be using an ECV for the first time on our October trip, due to back and knee problems, but I can walk slowly for short distances. I watched the video of the flight vehicles and at first I thought- yay! I can do this, but now I'm not so sure. My concerns are whether my body position will strain my back or hurt my knee. I am also concerned about the back support that pops up and whether that might cause any problems. I need to have control of my body position in order to avoid possible back spasms. Soarin is my favorite ride because I really can relax and enjoy it!! I have stopped going on any coasters or even my very favorite, Splash ( which will be closed anyhow..)
If the movements are smooth and not sudden, maybe I will be OK. I really want to ride it, but I also don't want to ruin my trip!
I will keep coming back to this thread to read any reports that will have more of an understanding and sensitivity to physical limitations than I might find on other threads.
Thank you!!


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## SueM in MN

bluecastle said:


> Thanks for the info on this thread- and thank you Sue for putting the link on the Pandora thread! I am so glad I found this. I will be using an ECV for the first time on our October trip, due to back and knee problems, but I can walk slowly for short distances. I watched the video of the flight vehicles and at first I thought- yay! I can do this, but now I'm not so sure. My concerns are whether my body position will strain my back or hurt my knee. I am also concerned about the back support that pops up and whether that might cause any problems. I need to have control of my body position in order to avoid possible back spasms. Soarin is my favorite ride because I really can relax and enjoy it!! I have stopped going on any coasters or even my very favorite, Splash ( which will be closed anyhow..)
> If the movements are smooth and not sudden, maybe I will be OK. I really want to ride it, but I also don't want to ruin my trip!
> I will keep coming back to this thread to read any reports that will have more of an understanding and sensitivity to physical limitations than I might find on other threads.
> Thank you!!


Thanks.
I've been watching the other threads and also things on other forums or Facebook for things to pull out.

I hope people on the disABILITIES Board will post their experiences on this thread as they go also.


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## SueM in MN

Flight of Passage is a 3D simulator ride.
These are the 3D glasses and photos of the actual ride seats  (from wdwinfo.com)


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## mir4mad

Complete POV ride through of Na'vi River Journey ride. No drop or hill noted. Some have said boats are small and would not be stable enough to support a wheelchair. Do they have to use the exact same boat? A wheelchair with companion seat would work I would think using a modified boat.


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## SueM in MN

Spoiler Alert:

This article has a lot of details, specifically about the sights and feelings of the Flight of Passage attraction.

http://www.insidethemagic.net/2017/...sive-emotional-journey-linking-guests-avatar/


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## SueM in MN

I don't know anything more than this, but just saw this information about transfer devices for the 2 Pandora rides...

"I haven't seen the one for NRJ, but the one for FOP is a wheelchair that lifts the guest up, puts them over the seat and lowers them into place"


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## KPeveler

Something I find interesting is that FOP lists the hearing accessibility as "Closed Captioning" - which I assume means the queue and pre-shows monitors... and 

"Handheld captioning"

I understand how the handheld captioning works, but are they planning on using that for the main movie/attraction?  I can't imagine holding one while wearing 3D glasses and straddling the ride vehicle...  will there just be no hearing accessibility option for the actual attraction?


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## SueM in MN

KPeveler said:


> Something I find interesting is that FOP lists the hearing accessibility as "Closed Captioning" - which I assume means the queue and pre-shows monitors... and
> 
> "Handheld captioning"
> 
> I understand how the handheld captioning works, but are they planning on using that for the main movie/attraction?  I can't imagine holding one while wearing 3D glasses and straddling the ride vehicle...  will there just be no hearing accessibility option for the actual attraction?


I have not heard any specifics about the FOP, but everything I have heard makes it sound like there would not be anything to translate during the ride (i.e. just 'flight' noises, no talking).


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## SueM in MN

SPOILER ALERT:

this article has some spoilers about what you will see and feel on the Flight of Passage attraction:
http://wdwnt.com/blog/2017/05/photo...-pandora-world-avatar-disneys-animal-kingdom/


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## SueM in MN

Good pictures of Na'vi River journey boats from a screenshot of Big Fat Panda video.
First picture is the unload area. 2nd and 3rd pictures are the empty boats.

  

SPOILER ALERT
This is the video from Big Fat Panda that the images were taken from. 
The first few seconds show the boarding area.
The entire ride is shown next and the last few seconds shows the unloading.

Na'vi River Journey in Multi Angle PandaVision
VIDEO:


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## Marshel

***Official*** Pandora: The World of Avatar Information Thread
Somebody posted in the main Pandora thread that they were allowing ECVs in the FP line for Flight of Passage  and having people either transfer for the last 2 rooms or walk it if capable, said it was about 50 feet.


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## SueM in MN

Marshel said:


> ***Official*** Pandora: The World of Avatar Information Thread
> Somebody posted in the main Pandora thread that they were allowing ECVs in the FP line for Flight of Passage  and having people either transfer for the last 2 rooms or walk it if capable, said it was about 50 feet.


thanks.
I saw that somewhere else also.

The website and app indicate ECV users must transfer from ECV to wheelchair, but doesn't say anything about when. In the past, that has meant the line was not accessible to ECVs. I didn't see anything on the walkthru videos that looked not accessible. I can see why they might not want ECVs in the last 2 rooms.


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## gap2368

I will be going this Saturday with a friend that will be in a ECV so I should be able to have some first hand informant then if someone dose not post sooner


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## BillSears

It looks like both rides require transfers.  According to the Orlando Sentinel there is a tiered transfer assist to help get in and out of the Navi River Journey.  But it's still more of a transfer than some can do.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/trav...isney-pandora-wheelchairs-20170519-story.html

"In the movie “Avatar,” the main character is a man confined to a wheelchair who can experience moving by linking his mind to a human-Na'vi hybrid.So some are finding it ironic that in Walt Disney World’s Avatar land opening May 27, boarding the two rides will require visitors to get out of their wheelchairs.

Both the Flight of Passage simulator ride and Na’vi River Journey, a slow-moving dark boat ride, require people to sit in the vehicle’s seats themselves.

Disney said the vehicles are too small to accommodate wheelchairs but did not provide details about why the boats could not have been designed differently. Disney said the ride has tiered transfer benches available for disabled riders to help them descend from their wheelchairs.

Disney has a variety of procedures for its rides.

On the Jungle Cruise at the Magic Kingdom or Journey into Imagination at Epcot, guests can sit in their own wheelchairs.

Elsewhere in the Magic Kingdom, on the Haunted Mansion guests must be able to walk into the ride vehicles. On It’s a Small World, they have to transfer into a different wheelchair.

“I'm very surprised that Disney didn't install at least a couple of boats that could accommodate wheelchairs — that should be standard practice these days for slow-moving boat rides without drops,” said Robert Niles, editor of Theme Park Insider, in an email.

“Let's not overlook the irony that the main character in Avatar was someone who used a wheelchair.”"


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## KPeveler

I understand why the "thrill" ride may not be wheelchair accessible, but there is no excuse for why a slow moving ride is not made accessible for wheelchairs.  I get that the boats are small, but I do not see why they do not make the boat for a wheelchair and jump seat.

Mostly it is the older rides that are not wheelchair accessible, but this is brand new.  And all of a sudden Disney is surprised that people want a wheelchair boat?


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## wilkeliza

gap2368 said:


> I will be going this Saturday with a friend that will be in a ECV so I should be able to have some first hand informant then if someone dose not post sooner



I posted in the other thread forgot to post here. Not sure if it is just FP queue or both queues but 2 ECV users were allowed in the FP line while I was there. One chose to walk the 50ish feet the other had her son push her. There were wheelchairs available but not many. There are stairs in the attraction so if you can not do stairs your wait time even with FP may be affected as only 1 load area (with 4 sets of 16) does not have stairs. In that specifc load area they are trying to only have ECVs and wheelchairs in 2 of the sets of 16. Something to do with those being closest to where the wheelchairs/ecv are moved to so less of a wait after riding.

The pre-show rooms have a switch back in one and you need to be on the pressure point that is your number for the effects to work. The 2nd room is straight with 8 in front and 8 behind. 

I did not see why ECV and wheelchair couldn't be in Navi queue. Its load/unload is like little mermaid where the wheelchair/ECV goes through a gate at the very very end of the line. I did not see the trasnfer device but was told it is a "step down" so people should be able to get in and out if they can transfer at all. If you can't transfer that is where issues will be.


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## SueM in MN

Once I saw the pictures of the boats, I was afraid they would have a transfer tier. The boats are too small to have a ramp (ramp needs to be 10-12 inches long for every inch you go up or down). Although a transfer tier might have worked for the character in the movie (a young, fit paraplegic) there are many people it will not work for. It will be one my daughter will very likely not be able to ride.
It DOES meet the requirements for access under the ADA, but that is a minimum and I would have hoped they would have come up with something that would be usable for more people. 
The line was listed as ECV and wheelchair accessible.


I have read the Flights of Passage will have something different- some kind of device you transfer to, but that device somehow puts you onto the 'link chair' (ride seat). I don't know anything much more, so hope it actually works for more people than the transfer tier will.


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## gap2368

SueM in MN said:


> I have read the Flights of Passage will have something different- some kind of device you transfer to, but that device somehow puts you onto the 'link chair' (ride seat). I don't know anything much more, so hope it actually works for more people than the transfer tier will.



I am Driving to Disney in less then 2 hours ( and still have not gone to sleep yet) and If I remember I will try to ask them about the  transfer device and see if I can not get some pictures of it, not sure how to post picture on here but  I am sure someone can help me.


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## gap2368

You can take an ECV in the flight ride but most move to a wheel chair where FP and stands by meet ( or very close to this point )


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## mir4mad

I would think the Na'vi River Journey could have a wheelchair boat without a ramp! Our zoo in Columbus, Ohio has a very small river ride and the wheelchair boat does not have a ramp! The floor of the boat raises up to to meet with the loading dock and then you can roll right on in and turn! It even has tie downs! I have a picture but it's too large to upload here. Disney is so hung up on safety I really think they missed the boat here! The tiered transfer system sounds very unsafe and even for those who can walk but can't step up or down this excludes even them from transferring! How does that even meet minimum ADA when most who really need a wheelchair still can't transfer? As for Flight of Passage an alternative viewing area would have been a nice idea. We watched a small part of the Tomorrowland movie at Epcot one year and the floor moved and wind blew which made it such a cool experience for my daughter who is in a wheelchair and can not transfer!


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## SueM in MN

mir4mad said:


> I would think the Na'vi River Journey could have a wheelchair boat without a ramp! Our zoo in Columbus, Ohio has a very small river ride and the wheelchair boat does not have a ramp! The floor of the boat raises up to to meet with the loading dock and then you can roll right on in and turn! It even has tie downs! I have a picture but it's too large to upload here. Disney is so hung up on safety I really think they missed the boat here! _*The tiered transfer system sounds very unsafe and even for those who can walk but can't step up or down this excludes even them from transferring! How does that even meet minimum ADA when most who really need a wheelchair still can't transfer? As for Flight of Passage an alternative viewing area would have been a nice idea. *_We watched a small part of the Tomorrowland movie at Epcot one year and the floor moved and wind blew which made it such a cool experience for my daughter who is in a wheelchair and can not transfer!


It may not seem like a transfer tier would meet the ADA, but it does. There is a very narrow list of people it will work for though.

I have heard 2 other rumors - I can't say they are confirmed in any way, but they are rumors about access for both attractions. Since they are just rumors, take them with a grain of salt. 

Na'vi River Ride - one rumor says there is work being done on a seat that lifts up, swings out for loading and then swings back into the seat and lowers. That would still require a transfer, but would be accessible to many who could not do the transfer tier. That fits the information I was given that each attraction would have a 'unique' transfer device. 

Flights of Passage - someone posted on the Theme Parks Board thread that there is some kind of transfer device that you transfer from a wheelchair to, then the device is rolled over the seat to 'deliver' you to it. You still would need to transfer, but the transfer itself would be easier.
There is also a recent post on the Theme Parks Pandora thread that indicates some kind of viewing area for those who can't ride was planned, but not ready. Again, a rumor.

Keep in mind that some of the more specialized transfer solutions seem like they will work, but take time to perfect. I was friends with a CM who worked at the Jungle Cruise while they were developing the lift for the Jungls Cruise boats. It took much longer to create than they thought and the first ones delivered for testing sunk the boats because they had too much downward force. When they decreased the force, it didn't work at all. They finally got it sorted out, but it took WAY longer than they thought.


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## zaksmom

I guess we just need to give it time. The Jungle Cruise was a "no go" for a long time, now it's our "go to" at the MK. Who knows, if they perfect a transfer to the Na'vi River boat, maybe they can be creative with the Pirates or Frozen boats. Or maybe their work to find a solution for this will help them open the Star Wars land with easy transfers. 'We'll be there is October and just see what we can do. Thanks for creating and keeping this thread up. My son is so excited for River Journey. I want to prepare him for maybe not doing it this time. Your work here really is helpful.


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## BillSears

SueM in MN said:


> Na'vi River Ride - one rumor says there is work being done on a seat that lifts up, swings out for loading and then swings back into the seat and lowers.



I'm pretty sure they have something like this over at Universal for the Jurassic Park River Adventure.  You transfer to a seat that is then lowered into the boat, when you unload the seat is raised and you transfer back.


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## SueM in MN

BillSears said:


> I'm pretty sure they have something like this over at Universal for the Jurassic Park River Adventure.  You transfer to a seat that is then lowered into the boat, when you unload the seat is raised and you transfer back.


yes
I have not seen it, but have heard about it it.


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## Kaytie

Don't know about Jurassic, but last time I was on Tips as* Falls, I had a seat that lifted so I could access the log, then lowered so I could ride.

*Ripsaw Falls, even.


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## gap2368

SueM in MN said:


> Flights of Passage - someone posted on the Theme Parks Board thread that there is some kind of transfer device that you transfer from a wheelchair to, then the device is rolled over the seat to 'deliver' you to it. You still would need to transfer, but the transfer itself would be easier.



Yes I saw this Device I was not able to take a picture of it or get a good idea of what  it was ( I was back stage since I had to leave the line rather fast due to an emergence 

but it looked very similar to This device http://www.spinlife.com/Invacare-Divided-Leg-Sling-Universal-Slings/spec.cfm?productID=2346&adv=googlepla&utm_medium=CSE&utm_source=googlepla&default=1&utm_term=&utm_campaign=610148043 ( but the back meter and top metal part where more straight and the cloth part was just two cloth straps  you would put your lags in. There might have been another strap and it looked like they had at lest 3 or 4 of them in this room. 

Now just because I saw these dose not mean Disney is ready to use them for guest. like sueM said they may still be perfecting the use of them. as I never saw it on stage just back stage


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## SueM in MN

Thanks.
I was thinking of a lift of some type.
The cloth part is called a SLING and there are various types of slings, depending on what you are transferring to.
The slings with separate leg parts are for situations where you need the legs to be apart. So, that kind would work for this attraction.

Here are 2 lift photos with divided slings. The position of the person operating the lift would need to be different because you can't get in front of the ride vehicle.


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## gap2368

SueM in MN said:


> Thanks.
> I was thinking of a lift of some type.
> The cloth part is called a SLING and there are various types of slings, depending on what you are transferring to.
> The slings with separate leg parts are for situations where you need the legs to be apart. So, that kind would work for this attraction.


yep I am so tired from my trip that I could not think of the words I wanted to use or even describe what I saw until I googled a picture of it. I will be down again next weekend for opening and will let you know if I see this on stage and being used for any guest


also there are 4 theaters for this ride

each one as 3 floors the top 2 you have to go up steps ( I never did but I would guess it would be like walking up 1 or 2 flight of stars) each floor holds 16 people) they use the bottom for people in wheel chair or other mobility decides so if you do need a mobility device you are not really having to wait any longer, I guest the only time would be if the bottom floor was full and you had to wait one more time but it looked like they loaded top to bottom). you can take your wheel chair into the room with you and have it very close to the back of the ride and kind of slide you self on ( you might have to take a step of two, unless the trasfer device is used. then the CM have to move your device out of the room and well bing it back after the ride. All bags must fit in the cubby and all the way nothing can be out side of the cubbies ( the ride will not start even if something the size of a paper is out. But I had no problems with putting my very big bag in. You are not allowed to have anything on the ride with you. 

oh and I think I sad this before you can take ECV in line with you and when you get to the point of them putting you in the room ( just before) you will have to use a wheel chair or walk ( it was kind of like sarin where you go in one room watch a video. This is where you get your avatar then you go in another room watch another video on the ride it self then walk in the roomful the ride. If you can not easily do a FP line walking and standing for 10 minutes I would ask for a wheel chair I want to say the line would be about 50 to 100 steps ( I did not count but where some walking after my friend had to leave her ECV) but you will be standing.

like I said before I am very tired but wanted to do this before I forgot so if there are spelling grammar mistakes I am sorry


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## gap2368

SueM in MN said:


> View attachment 238399 View attachment 238400 Thanks.
> 
> Here are 2 lift photos with divided slings. The position of the person operating the lift would need to be different because you can't get in front of the ride vehicle.



from what I saw it looked like the CM would stand behind the transfer device. and the person using the device  would get in the sling facing the metal part and then the sling part would turn so now the metal  frame is behind the person getting on the ride. then  they can be lowered on the ride vehicle it self. This would be my guess from what I saw the device to look like and on the little I know about the transfer devices ( I do have a friend that has one and uses it, I have only seen them use it a hand full of times.


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## zaksmom

There is also a report today on another website. One that doesn't have a forum. I don't know if I can say the name of the site. He has a report on the accommodations. He has pictures of a wheelchair that guests would transfer into that can be pumped up like a barber chair and rolled over the ride seat. I guess then the person would slide forward and onto the seat? Harder to get back into the chair I'm sure. Anyway some good pictures. The name of the article can be searched "Special wheelchair and other accommodations allow guests with disabilities to ride Flight of passage." The writer of the article doesn't have a great understanding of transfer needs, but he did get a look at the accommodations. Maybe a moderator can find this and link to the pictures.


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## SueM in MN

zaksmom said:


> There is also a report today on another website. One that doesn't have a forum. I don't know if I can say the name of the site. He has a report on the accommodations. He has pictures of a wheelchair that guests would transfer into that can be pumped up like a barber chair and rolled over the ride seat. I guess then the person would slide forward and onto the seat? Harder to get back into the chair I'm sure. Anyway some good pictures. The name of the article can be searched "Special wheelchair and other accommodations allow guests with disabilities to ride Flight of passage." The writer of the article doesn't have a great understanding of transfer needs, but he did get a look at the accommodations. Maybe a moderator can find this and link to the pictures.


Thanks, I'll look it up and see whether it can be posted.

I had heard a description like that earlier, but had not seen pictures.


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## BillSears

A solid seat instead of a swing seat sounds easier to transfer into.  I know I have trouble with a seat that moves away from me as I try to transfer.


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## wilkeliza

BillSears said:


> A solid seat instead of a swing seat sounds easier to transfer into.  I know I have trouble with a seat that moves away from me as I try to transfer.



The photo I saw was of a solid seat. Here is the link if it is allowed http://wdwnt.com/blog/2017/05/photo...ies-ride-flight-passage-pandora-world-avatar/


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## BillSears

That doesn't look too bad.  It's a straight wheelchair to wheelchair transfer.  The transfer chair they provide looks like it is height adjustable so that it will rise to the correct level for the ride.


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## old lady

This is shocking that Disney didn't make this boat ride accessible to wheelchairs.


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## KYMickey

Here's a solution that hasn't even been discussed yet and is very handy and useful. I've had one for about 8 years and they are marvelous.

https://www.surehands.com/products/surehands-body-support/

They can be mounted to a ceiling system, portable system like shown earlier with the sling or even to a wall-mounted arm. They certainly would be very easy to use to load somebody into either the boats or 1 of the seats on the banshee. They are used many places to load patients under horseback for therapy so loading someone onto a ride that is stationary wouldn't be in very big issue at all!


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## wilkeliza

KYMickey said:


> Here's a solution that hasn't even been discussed yet and is very handy and useful. I've had one for about 8 years and they are marvelous.
> 
> https://www.surehands.com/products/surehands-body-support/
> 
> They can be mounted to a ceiling system, portable system like shown earlier with the sling or even to a wall-mounted arm. They certainly would be very easy to use to load somebody into either the boats or 1 of the seats on the banshee. They are used many places to load patients under horseback for therapy so loading someone onto a ride that is stationary wouldn't be in very big issue at all!



I wonder if that is what they may be working on for Navi River but just haven't installed yet. Would need some themeing of course.


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## SueM in MN

Even with the things we've seen already, I don't think we've seen everything yet.


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## SueM in MN

This is the article about accessibility mentioned in another post:

*21*
*May 2017*
*PHOTOS: Special Wheelchair & Other Accommodations Allow Guests with Disabilities to Ride Flight of Passage in Pandora – The World of AVATAR*
*By Tom Corless -- Posted in: Parks & Resorts, Walt Disney World Resort-- No comments -- Leave comment*
This post may contain affiliate links; please read the disclosure for more info.



For the last few days, the internet has been abuzz with talk about how “unaccommodating” the attractions in Pandora: The World of AVATAR are for guests in wheelchairs. Well, after doing some research during our last visit to the planet, it appears that they are just as accommodating as other rides at Walt Disney World.

After reading more than enough pieces about these issues, I decided I wanted to see what was actually going on at the attraction, rather than speculation without first-hand experience. We spoke to cast members at the attractions to get all of the following information, so it should be as accurate as possible.




The link chair vehicles for the AVATAR Flight of Passage attraction in Pandora

The AVATAR Flight of Passage ride system is unique and simply could not accommodate a wheelchair, but wheelchair guests can transfer to ride. Transferring to ride a thrill ride at Walt Disney World is far from uncommon, as less-intense thrill rides such as Soarin’, the Seven Dwarfs Mine Train, and Test Track all require such practices. Mind you, these are not decades-old attractions, but all rides that have opened since 1999, in a more modern age where theme parks often have guests requiring accommodation in mind.

At Flight of Passage, guests in a manual wheelchair can stay in their chair until they get to the ride vehicle, as the queue and pre-show experiences are fully accessible. The wheelchair can then pull right beside the Flight of Passage “link chair” seat and transferring will require 1-2 steps.

Those who need additional assistance transferring can also make use of a special wheelchair that is available. This wheelchair has the ability to elevate the guest in the seat via manual foot pump, similar to a barber’s chair. Cast members we spoke to at the attraction said they were able to load guests from this wheelchair effectively with little problem.




Special wheelchair to aid guests in transferring onto the Flight of Passage attraction in Pandora




Special wheelchair to aid guests in transferring onto the Flight of Passage attraction in Pandora

As with other attractions, guests needing to transfer are brought in before other guests are loaded so that they can take their time and have privacy as they move from their chair into the ride vehicle.

Guests in ECVs or motorized scooters will leave their ECVs before the pre-show areas and have the option of walking the rest of the way or using a manual wheelchair (or again, the special one pictured above, if need be). The distance from the door of the first pre-show room to the ride vehicle is about 50 steps, but also requires several minutes of standing.

Meanwhile, at the Na’vi River Journey ride, while there are no “wheelchair boats” that such a device could simply roll right onto, they do have a multi-tiered set of steps that allow guests to more easily descend into the boat. The rows on the boat are quite large as well, making it easier to assist a guest who must transfer into the vehicle. It’s not perfect, but it isn’t terribly complicated either. Transferring from a wheelchair is a necessity at many slow-moving Walt Disney World attractions, including The Haunted Mansion, Pirates of the Caribbean, and Spaceship Earth.

We hope this helps to clarify the process with factual information rather than vague, broad statements about the process at either attraction. As for concerns about guests with larger dimensions fitting on AVATAR Flight of Passage, we will address those in a separate story later this week.


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## gap2368

not sure if any one has said this yet, but the part that you lean agenst dose vibrate some dunning the ride and a little before hand. just incase someone has a problem with this. I was able to push my self back some so I did not feel it,


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## SueM in MN

There is now a trial ride seat outside of Flights if Passage and a twitter account named onthegoinmco posted this picture of a suggested transfer.


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## BillSears

That looks possible.  Maybe within 30 seconds, although why that requirement when the ride doesn't start until everyone is loaded and isn't time dependent.  I think the hard part for me will be getting back off.  Backing up onto my seat can be hard if I have to go back while raising myself up.  So it'll depend a lot on the seat height of the Banshee.

I do know that practicing outside would just wear me out and then the actual transfer would be tougher since I'm now tired from doing multiple transfers outside.

I really would like to see that tiered bump steps(?) for the Na'vi River Journey.  Are they meant as real steps or as a sit and bump up/down steps?  Do the have a good spot to grab onto something so you can lift yourself?


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## wilkeliza

BillSears said:


> That looks possible.  Maybe within 30 seconds, although why that requirement when the ride doesn't start until everyone is loaded and isn't time dependent.
> 
> I do know that practicing outside would just wear me out and then the actual transfer would be tougher since I'm now tired from doing multiple transfers outside.
> 
> I really would like to see that tiered bump steps(?) for the Na'vi River Journey.  Are they meant as real steps or as a sit and bump up/down steps?  Do the have a good spot to grab onto something so you can lift yourself?



I know they are trying to get load down that fast but it def was not 30 seconds for us to load.


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## bluecastle

I have an inflatable cushion that I use for my back. It can be worn, like a fanny pack in reverse, and it can be inflated with just a few breaths so that it will not take up too much room- just enough to give me a little support when the vehicle moves. I still have to do lots of research on the ride vehicle's movements before I decide whether to take a chance, but I think the cushion would really help prevent the kind of motion that causes me issues with my back. Sudden movements forward which cause the small of my back to move back in a seat can be a problem. ( sadly, I no longer ride any coasters) Soarin' is now my favorite ride because I can relax!! 

Thanks to everyone for posting on this thread!


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## KPeveler

I am wondering about what kind of cushioning might be allowed for safety reasons.  I know that my friend was told to move her sweatshirt from under her when she was on Space Mountain.  I know my husband, even as a paraplegic, could ride it with a small cushion under him, but this may not be allowed.


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## bluecastle

KPeveler said:


> I am wondering about what kind of cushioning might be allowed for safety reasons.  I know that my friend was told to move her sweatshirt from under her when she was on Space Mountain.  I know my husband, even as a paraplegic, could ride it with a small cushion under him, but this may not be allowed.



I am hoping it will be allowed since it is strapped to my body and can't fly out during the ride.


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## SueM in MN

I'm guessing nothing can be put between the rider and the seat, but I don't know for sure.

I found this video demonstrating the trial seat on the large Theme Parks Pandora thread:


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## SueM in MN

Here are some other recent pictures of the test ride seat. The top picture shows the back restraint. 
If the back is in the green area on the picture, both the back and leg/thigh restraints will engage and you are good to go.

The other picture shows a rider in the restraint as it would be when riding. It does show the location of the leg/thigh restraints. From descriptions I've seen posted, exactly where the leg restraint fits depends on the rider's height, thigh size, length of leg and exact position.
Someone posted they had seen a young woman who was in a wheelchair and could not totally straighten her leg who was able to fit correctly in the test vehicle.


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## SueM in MN

And a couple of pictures from the video.


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## LadyD

gap2368 said:


> not sure if any one has said this yet, but the part that you lean agenst dose vibrate some dunning the ride and a little before hand. just incase someone has a problem with this. I was able to push my self back some so I did not feel it,



There are definitely vibrations along your chest and back where you're pressed up against the ride vehicle before and during the ride. During the ride there is also rhythmic pressure on your legs. The vibrations totally took me by surprise and almost overwhelmed me. 

However, vibrations aside, I did find this ride exceptionally soothing. The rhythmic pressure was super calming for me.


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## gap2368

Just a little more about the lines for FOP if any one is wondering.


where the FP and stand by merge there are (  3 or 4  lines) that go down a ramp and 3 or 4 lines that goes up a ramp.

If you are using a mobility device they will put you in the  Right line going down the ramp every one else it really depends ( it looked like they were having single riders in the center line) all the line going down would put you on the bottom floor, and if you went up the ramp you were either on the second or 3 floor ( the 3 floor you would go thought a door, and up one flight of stars).

after you get out you will go either down one or two flight of stars, or if you are at the bottom floor just straight out and then down a long ramp with a cut off of more ramps or stars. then you will wind op in wind treader ( unless they have it blocked off like they did opening day)

The stand by lines very long with a lot of swish backs, a few different rooms and a ramp that goes back and forth ( the bottom floor of the ride is really the 3 floor, of the building)

The FP line is still kind of long half out side and half inside, and up a good incline .



I only did the river one one time and they let my friend stay in her ECV and ask if she needed more time to get in and out of the boat she did not so we just went with every one else there was another guest right infant of us that did and they brought that guest to where they were unloading and let them load there, ( I think this is what happened)


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## SueM in MN

gap2368 said:


> I only did the river one one time and they let my friend stay in her ECV and ask if she needed more time to get in and out of the boat she did not so we just went with every one else there was another guest right infant of us that did and they brought that guest to where they were unloading and let them load there, ( I think this is what happened)


They do that for a lot of attractions where people with mobility devices need to transfer because the loading and unloading points are usually not in the same spot. It puts the mobility device at the exit so the CMs don't have to move it.


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## Disneykidsdad

Has anyone seen how a person in a wheelchair who needs help getting into the boat does it?


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## poison ivy

SueM in MN said:


> Meanwhile, at the Na’vi River Journey ride, while there are no “wheelchair boats” that such a device could simply roll right onto, they do have a multi-tiered set of steps that allow guests to more easily descend into the boat. The rows on the boat are quite large as well, making it easier to assist a guest who must transfer into the vehicle. It’s not perfect, but it isn’t terribly complicated either. Transferring from a wheelchair is a necessity at many slow-moving Walt Disney World attractions, including The Haunted Mansion, Pirates of the Caribbean, and Spaceship Earth.



Does anyone have any idea of what "a multi-tiered set of steps" is?  Hoping to take my dad on this in Sept.  He's 80, diabetic, and a recent stroke victim with balance problems.  There will be a few strong men in our family to assist but I'm worried he can't step into the boats without a railing or something similar to grab to steady himself.


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## SueM in MN

poison ivy said:


> Does anyone have any idea of what "a multi-tiered set of steps" is?  Hoping to take my dad on this in Sept.  He's 80, diabetic, and a recent stroke victim with balance problems.  There will be a few strong men in our family to assist but I'm worried he can't step into the boats without a railing or something similar to grab to steady himself.


They are not what they sound like. First of all, they are not meant for walking on. A lot of people call them 'bump steps' because the user basically bumps up or down them on their butt. 

I don't have a picture of the ones for the boat, but transfer tiers are a set of stairs made for people to move to and from their wheelchair in a seated position. The first step would usually be the height of a wheelchair seat and the person transfers to that step. The next steps would be down or up depending on which direction you need to go. 
Last, there would be a surface to slide over to the seat you are transferring to.


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## SueM in MN

I just found a picture of one of the transfer devices for the Na'vi River Ride. 
This would be the step one. The article didn't explain how it is used, but I can make an educated guess.....
Even though the device is sitting on the ground, that is not how it would be used. You can see a leg to the left of the picture and a shaped cutout under the top step. That area would be placed on the side of the boat with one side of the steps inside and the other side outside of the boat. 
One part would be 'wheelchair seat' height so a person seated in a wheelchair could easily move over to it. Then it's a matter of transferring to each step and swinging legs over the side of the boat. 
That kind of device might also be useful for someone who is not using a wheelchair, but would feel more secure transferring that way.


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## BillSears

Looking at that picture I'm beginning to think those might actually be steps.  The top step there doesn't look close to wheelchair seat height.  Maybe those steps are used for inside the boat and one step out, then an additional set for going up the rest of the way to seat height?  Or maybe the whole thing was really just designed as an aid to step into/out of the boat for those who can walk but can't do the big step?


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## SueM in MN

BillSears said:


> Looking at that picture I'm beginning to think those might actually be steps.  The top step there doesn't look close to wheelchair seat height.  Maybe those steps are used for inside the boat and one step out, then an additional set for going up the rest of the way to seat height?  Or maybe the whole thing was really just designed as an aid to step into/out of the boat for those who can walk but can't do the big step?


I wish we had more info. The one picture here is the boat with the step from the original photos. 
The other photo is a combination of the 2 - obviously, not exactly to scale with the cutout over the side of the boat and the 'legs' inside the boat on the seat. It looks like it wouldn't work for steps. The bottom step would only be a few inches off the ground. And, the top step would would be a really big step down to the seat.

My thought for if it was a wheelchair transfer device would be it go the other way, with the steps going into the boat down to seat. The 'top' step would be one 'transfer down' from the wheelchair seat, so it would not be as high as the wheelchair seat. The holes on the sides could be handholds.

I guess we shall see.


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## BillSears

Yea Sue, it'll be tough to figure out how that works until we see it in use.  I think the metal legs slide down between the boat and the dock.  The black notch under the steps goes on the side of the boat.  That would get you across the gap and down onto the seat.  But when you come back that top step would still be about a foot below most wheelchair seats.  But I may be way off on the scale of the steps.


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## SueM in MN

BillSears said:


> Yea Sue, it'll be tough to figure out how that works until we see it in use.  I think the metal legs slide down between the boat and the dock.  The black notch under the steps goes on the side of the boat.  That would get you across the gap and down onto the seat.  But when you come back that top step would still be about a foot below most wheelchair seats.  But I may be way off on the scale of the steps.


yes, that was the way I was thinking.
It's really hard without scale. It's also possible there is another piece that goes with it that is behind the pillar on the first photo.
I always try to get pictures of people getting in so at least there is some scale (not perfect since you don't know the height of the person).


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## SueM in MN

Here are some more pictures of the boats at the boarding and unload area that may/may not help.


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## poison ivy

BillSears said:


> Yea Sue, it'll be tough to figure out how that works until we see it in use.  I think the metal legs slide down between the boat and the dock.  The black notch under the steps goes on the side of the boat.  That would get you across the gap and down onto the seat.





SueM in MN said:


> yes, that was the way I was thinking.
> It's really hard without scale. It's also possible there is another piece that goes with it that goes behind the pillar on the first photo.
> I always try to get pictures of people getting in so at least there is some scale (not perfect since you don't know the height of the person).



Thank you both for assisting with this and thanks SueM for the pics so far.  great find.

I wish I had taken notice or inquired when we were there.  Unfortunately, these are the only pics I have of the loading area.
It does not appear anyone was being assisted when we rode.






















There is a definite step up and over to enter the boats.





The unload takes place right with the loading area but I read this is also where they direct and assist disabled guests in getting into the boats.






 All guests seem to be merged together in the queue at the point where you see the CM holding up the standby line in this photo. (the FP enters from the opening)






and we stay together to the loading platform.











It's not the best setup IMO.


----------



## SueM in MN

A poster named Spridell posted this video on the large Pandora thread on the Theme Parks board.
Someone apparently left a camera running in the storage area for guest's belongings at back of the ride room.
The camera captured the light flashes (random light flashes) at the beginning of the ride and also the motion of the area of the room the seats are in compared to the stationary portion at the back of the room.

FF video to actual ride starts at 11:02



Spoiler











If you actually watch the heads of the riders, some of the motion might not seem as extreme as it does from watching the 'roof' over the rider's heads. I have not seen any posts from people who reported they actually got sick from riding, but I have seen posts where people with motion sickness said they felt 'off' after riding, but did not actually get sick. I've also seen posts from people who said CMs have told them some people did get sick.
Many people with motion sickness have reported the motion on the screen is very well snyched with the action of the seat. That can greatly assist someone with motion sickness becAuse a large part of the 'sick' feeling is due to mismatch between information coming into the brain from the eyes and sensations related to movedment coming into the brain from other parts of the body.


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## poison ivy

I saw that video when it first posted on youtube.  It was unbelievable to see how much actual movement the ride had.  When we were on FoP, we felt the experience of flying but felt very little movement of the platform.  This has never been the case with Star Tours (which I would not compare this to) or Soarin'.

Someone mentioned the tech having the capability of drawing your attention to the center of the screen with a more personalized visual provided thru the 3-D glasses.  This may contribute to not feeling as much motion sickness.  With the other attractions, it's an open widescreen view where you can see and feel yourself with everyone moving up and down in the chamber while trying to concentrate on the projection. FoP isolates you away from the other riders to fully immerse into the film.


----------



## SueM in MN

blogger called Rolling With Magic wrote a great description and review of access for Pandora Flight of Passage. This is a link to her blog and I am posting some of her pictures.

http://www.rollingwiththemagicblog.com/avatar-flight-of-passage/

This is the transfer wheelchair. On her first ride, she said it was brought out to her. 
 She indicated that on her second ride, she was brought to the area where the transfer chairs are stored. 


This is the test chair outside of the attraction where you can try a transfer. 



If you are planning to use the transfer wheelchair, you will want to check out her description of transferring from the blog. 

  A


----------



## BillSears

Thanks Sue.  From the article it looks like the Flight of Passage will probably work for me.

There is also an article on that sight showing the Navi River Journey transfer device in use.  I still have no idea what they were thinking about that.  It looks like the device slants down into the boat so the seats/steps are not level.  Also looking at the pictures when it's in the boat that top step looks to be about 10 inches off the ground.  No where close to a standard wheelchair seat height.

http://www.rollingwiththemagicblog....River-Journey-ADA-Transfer-Device-768x583.jpg

http://www.rollingwiththemagicblog.com/navi-river-journey/


----------



## SueM in MN

BillSears said:


> Thanks Sue.  From the article it looks like the Flight of Passage will probably work for me.
> 
> There is also an article on that sight showing the Navi River Journey transfer device in use.  I still have no idea what they were thinking about that.  It looks like the device slants down into the boat so the seats/steps are not level.  Also looking at the pictures when it's in the boat that top step looks to be about 10 inches off the ground.  No where close to a standard wheelchair seat height.
> 
> http://www.rollingwiththemagicblog....River-Journey-ADA-Transfer-Device-768x583.jpg
> 
> http://www.rollingwiththemagicblog.com/navi-river-journey/


Thanks for the heads up. She hadn't completed writing that part yet when I saw the other. 

I've heard, but not confirmed, that they are working on something to lift a seat up, the guest can transfer in and then the seat will lower back into the boat. 
I've also heard rumors that the ride path was shortened from the original plan, which made some of the turns tighter. That made it not possible to have a ramped boat similar to Small World. I don't know if they would be able to do a lift like Jungle Cruise. From the pictures it appears the boat is too small for a lift like that.


----------



## jiifigment

Looking at the ride vehicle for flight of passage I have some concerns.  Does either the vehicle itself, or the ride require ankle movement?  I have NO dorsiflexion (I can't move my ankle up and down).  If this vehicle either before or during the ride forces your leg to do this, I will be in real trouble.  I can not put my lower leg behind my knee and put my foot flat on the floor...AT ALL.  I'm concerned that the leg restraint requires exactly this.  Can anyone explain the leg position here?  Thanks!!!


----------



## KPeveler

My husband and I (he is a complete para) both think they are using the bump steps improperly in the River ride.  We think the last step is supposed to rest on the side of the boat, so the top step is higher and doesnt slant.  As it is, those look more dangerous than trying to do a floor to chair transfer.  Neither of us can use them - we will just slide on the incline.

Small World in Disneyland has a small boat as well (I think it has 3 rows) and they have a wheelchair boat with a lift like Jungle Cruise.  There would only be room for the lift and a jump seat for one other person, but that would be better than those awful steps they are using now.


----------



## BillSears

KPeveler said:


> My husband and I (he is a complete para) both think they are using the bump steps improperly in the River ride.  We think the last step is supposed to rest on the side of the boat, so the top step is higher and doesnt slant.  As it is, those look more dangerous than trying to do a floor to chair transfer.  Neither of us can use them - we will just slide on the incline.
> 
> Small World in Disneyland has a small boat as well (I think it has 3 rows) and they have a wheelchair boat with a lift like Jungle Cruise.  There would only be room for the lift and a jump seat for one other person, but that would be better than those awful steps they are using now.



I agree!  There is a slot on the bottom of the first step that looks like it would fit right on the side of the boat.  That would level out the steps and make it easier.  I still would like to see something to grab hold of other than the steps themselves.  If I'm sitting on them it's hard to get a grip on something to lift myself up.


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## SueM in MN

KPeveler said:


> My husband and I (he is a complete para) both think they are using the bump steps improperly in the River ride.  We think the last step is supposed to rest on the side of the boat, so the top step is higher and doesnt slant.  As it is, those look more dangerous than trying to do a floor to chair transfer.  Neither of us can use them - we will just slide on the incline.
> 
> Small World in Disneyland has a small boat as well (I think it has 3 rows) and they have a wheelchair boat with a lift like Jungle Cruise.  There would only be room for the lift and a jump seat for one other person, but that would be better than those awful steps they are using now.





BillSears said:


> I agree!  There is a slot on the bottom of the first step that looks like it would fit right on the side of the boat.  That would level out the steps and make it easier.  I still would like to see something to grab hold of other than the steps themselves.  If I'm sitting on them it's hard to get a grip on something to lift myself up.


Having tried to take a lot of accessibility photos, I think it's more the angle of the picture than anything else.
It looks to me like it is actually straight, but just looks higher and as if it slants.
The reviewer says it was an easy transfer (although it was 4 lifts). She also said in the comments that the height of the first step would have been fairly even with her manual wheelchair.
I straightened the pictures a bit so you can see better
.(I think the right 'leg' on the 2nd picture is not down yet. It looks like the CM was in the act of placing it).


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## Orangeandwild

I ride my own ECV in the parks, do they allow you to bring it into the River Journey Line and up to the boats or do you need to transfer to a manual wheelchair? Thanks..


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## SueM in MN

Orangeandwild said:


> I ride my own ECV in the parks, do they allow you to bring it into the River Journey Line and up to the boats or do you need to transfer to a manual wheelchair? Thanks..


yes, people have posted that they were able to use an ECV or wheelchair all the way to boarding.


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## Toffeewoffy

This is an extremely interesting and informative thread.  Thanks for posting the most recent photos.  I'm not worried about the transfer in and out of the boat (while I have some limited flexion of my joints I am totally weight-bearing and won't have a problem there), I admit that I was a little concerned about the FoP ride.  By the looks of it I'll be fine.  I can leave my scooter outside the ride rooms and transfer with only a little mobility difficulty.

One question, though - has anyone considered the *ahem* more well endowed of us and pressing as far forward as we can go against that chest restraint?  Am I likely to be in discomfort from having my boobies squished?!


----------



## Pawpsicle

Toffeewoffy said:


> This is an extremely interesting and informative thread.  Thanks for posting the most recent photos.  I'm not worried about the transfer in and out of the boat (while I have some limited flexion of my joints I am totally weight-bearing and won't have a problem there), I admit that I was a little concerned about the FoP ride.  By the looks of it I'll be fine.  I can leave my scooter outside the ride rooms and transfer with only a little mobility difficulty.
> 
> One question, though - has anyone considered the *ahem* more well endowed of us and pressing as far forward as we can go against that chest restraint?  Am I likely to be in discomfort from having my boobies squished?!



So this will depend a little on how you are shaped. I have long legs and a bad knee that doesn't bend very well. To lean against the chest pad, I had to bend forward more at the waist, which meant it was more at boob level. I'm not very  well endowed so wasn't super uncomfortable, but it was a strange position to hold. Once the ride started though I was so engrossed in it that the seating was an afterthought!

Also as a side note, I sat in the test seat to make sure I could fit with my knee. It seemed like the test seat had more leg room than the actual seat.


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## lovethattink

I rode FoP yesterday for the first time!! It was awesome!! 

Just a couple notes.  My left, inside arm from arm pit to elbow is numb from nerve damage from surgery. That part of my arm rested on the ride. Since I couldn't feel, it didn't seem like I had good control of that side of myself on the ride.  I was clinging tight with my right hand and arm.

I'm very claustrophobic,  and surprisingly didn't have any issues. I was seat 1. So mine was first to be checked and I had to wait for all other 14 seats to be checked before the it started.  At the end, the seats automatically release the back lock. I leaned on the back lock during the ride and found it comfortable.  I didn't really lean forward. I was more upright.

I minded the flashing lights at the beginning and closed my eyes. They didn't seem like strobe speed, but they were very bright. 

My son has sensory issues. He can't stand the feeling of the rollers on Bugs Life, but didn't mind the sensations from the seat. The flashing lights didn't bother him at all. This was the first that 3D glasses didn't bother him.  He loved It! We Have a FP again for today!


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## kms234

BillSears said:


> I agree!  There is a slot on the bottom of the first step that looks like it would fit right on the side of the boat.  That would level out the steps and make it easier.  I still would like to see something to grab hold of other than the steps themselves.  If I'm sitting on them it's hard to get a grip on something to lift myself up.




Bill- I am new to this site and cant figure out how to private message. Could you email me kms234@aol.com? We will be taking my father para T10 to Disney for the first time next week... I am starting to get nervous and have lots of questions. Thanks!! Kimberly


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## lanejudy

@kms234. You need to have 10 posts to send or receive PM.  You can head to the Test Board and up your post count:  https://www.disboards.com/forums/test-board.88/

But we have many others on the disABILITIES Forum who may also be able to help.  Feel free to post your questions.

Enjoy your vacation!


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## BillSears

kms234 said:


> Bill- I am new to this site and cant figure out how to private message. Could you email me kms234@aol.com? We will be taking my father para T10 to Disney for the first time next week... I am starting to get nervous and have lots of questions. Thanks!! Kimberly



Hi Kim, I'd be happy to answer any of your questions.  It might be best to post a new thread and we can all join in.  But if you feel better asking privately I can do that too.


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## DragonMomma

Hi there. My question relates to the wait times for the FP line. I've heard plenty reports of the length of the stand by line, but even with DAS return times, I was curious how long the FP line usually is from start to finish. I have panic disorder and I'm trying to access if I can do this EVEN with a fp or DAS. Anyone who rides in the future, can you note faspass line duration for me(along with time of day)?   

My second question is concerning DAS. Let's say I got in line with my family, started to panic, and had to bail. Would they still let my family line stay in line, or would they eject them with me after they waited? Is that something I can discuss with Guest Services as a possible scenario that they can accomadate? I also (years ago) remember hearing about an add-on accomadation to the DAS, where if a person had to leave the line, there was a way to return to the line after they recovered or am I misremembering?
Anxiety/panic rules my world and I'm trying not to let it rule my family's world too. Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask.


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## DisneyOma

We waited 30 minutes from entering the FP+ queue to getting through the first room. There were breakdowns and they had to reload those people before they would let us on. Then our room took forever to scan us. We thought we'd be sent to another station as well, but we finally got moved to the second room. But there was at least 30 minutes of standing around before the second room (which was quick) and then on the ride.


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## DisneyOma

DragonMomma said:


> My second question is concerning DAS. Let's say I got in line with my family, started to panic, and had to bail. Would they still let my family line stay in line, or would they eject them with me after they waited? Is that something I can discuss with Guest Services as a possible scenario that they can accomadate? I also (years ago) remember hearing about an add-on accomadation to the DAS, where if a person had to leave the line, there was a way to return to the line after they recovered or am I misremembering?
> Anxiety/panic rules my world and I'm trying not to let it rule my family's world too. Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask.



If you bail, they are supposed to go with you. There is a second FP check for this queue, and you would need to be there for the tap as well.


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## mamabunny

FYI - new changes to entering Pandora at rope drop: (via The DIS)

*Pandora entrance policies have changed*


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## gap2368

DragonMomma said:


> Hi there. My question relates to the wait times for the FP line. I've heard plenty reports of the length of the stand by line, but even with DAS return times, I was curious how long the FP line usually is from start to finish. I have panic disorder and I'm trying to access if I can do this EVEN with a fp or DAS. Anyone who rides in the future, can you note faspass line duration for me(along with time of day)?
> 
> My second question is concerning DAS. Let's say I got in line with my family, started to panic, and had to bail. Would they still let my family line stay in line, or would they eject them with me after they waited? Is that something I can discuss with Guest Services as a possible scenario that they can accomadate? I also (years ago) remember hearing about an add-on accomadation to the DAS, where if a person had to leave the line, there was a way to return to the line after they recovered or am I misremembering?
> Anxiety/panic rules my world and I'm trying not to let it rule my family's world too. Sorry if this is the wrong place to ask.



There is just no way to tell how long the line will take, I have been on FOP ( either with a DAS or FP) maybe 7-9 times and some times it takes 10 minutes to get to the first room sometimes 30, and then when you are in the first room thing can happen and you can be stopped and some times just getting on the ride can take some time, ( one time it took about 15 minutes). I would come up with some coping skills and make sure you are having a good day before I would get in line. I have asked the CM before and this is a 50/50 chance they will know about the lines inside ( some times they do and some times they guess). 

as far as leaving the line your group should exit with you, on your way out have a member of your group tell the people at the FP entrance that you had to leave due to a disability ( or what ever you think) and ask them if you can reenter when you regroup. for most rides, this has always worked for me, not sure about FOP, some how I have never needed to leave the line ( but for once to use the bathroom).  There is away to add other accommodation to your DAS ( I have one,) but it was just at the begging and it was not easy to get, ( I had a long meeting with a CM, manager about it and I think they have taken it away) but to be able to leave the line and come back is not something they can add to the DAS as there would be no way for the CM to know you had this.  

If you would like some help with coping strategies I would be glad to help you out, but I understand if not.


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## pooh4me

I would like to know how long the que line is? I use a walker because I can only go so long then I have to sit to relive back pain.Is it as long as Soring? I let people pass me is it possible for them to get by me?


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## gap2368

pooh4me said:


> I would like to know how long the que line is? I use a walker because I can only go so long then I have to sit to relive back pain.Is it as long as Soring? I let people pass me is it possible for them to get by me?



The line is long like soring. there are places where people can pass you. but the wait is also long and there are a lot of things to look at so if you do stand by you may not find a lot of people want to pass you, or there may not be a need to pass you. FP is shorter the first part is up a hill and not really any room to pass someone once inside it is not that fair at all. Since you have a mobility device you will be put in a separate line after the FP standby merge.


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## mamabunny

pooh4me said:


> I would like to know how long the que line is? I use a walker because I can only go so long then I have to sit to relive back pain.Is it as long as Soring? I let people pass me is it possible for them to get by me?



If you haven't already, you might want to consider a Rollator, which is essentially a walker with a built-in seat.  Many of them also have a handy basket under the seat as well.  Rollators are generally relatively inexpensive, and can be rented from local Orlando vendors if you want to try before you buy.


----------



## Luke A

I HAVE A CUSTOM FITTED WHEELCHAIR & CAN'T TRANSFER TO ANOTHER CHAIR, CAN I GO IN THE PRE SHOW WATCH IT THEN EXIT? I'M SO DISAPPOINTED WITH THE NA'VI RIVER JOURNEY NOT BEING ACCESSIBLE, IT'S A BOAT RIDE, DISNEY CONVERTED 'IT'S A SMALL WORLD"  'THE JUNGLE CRUISE' SO THEY'RE WHEELCHAIR ACCESSIBLE, I FIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE THEY COULD ADAPT 1 BOAT TO BE WHEELCHAIR ACCESSIBLE.


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## luvmarypoppins

Just wanted to share my experience. Ds and I had a fastpass and he is a nurse so he knew how to handle me. I use a wheelchair mostly as a walker. My other issues are bad knee, back, l eye issues and can't turn my neck well due to two cancer surgeries. 

It was easy getting into the boat. I stepped on the seat and we had the front seat. The seats are very roomy. Getting out was a huge issue. I asked for that stair step. I dont know how its suppose to work, but I ended up on the top of the largest step and it was a huge drop down. By this time I was holding up the loading line. Two male managers came over and each took an arm and got me off that thing.

Ds and i both agreed that next time it would be better if he tried to just pull me out if the boat.

I don't know if I used the stepper correctly or the cast member didn't set it up correctly? But coming out was as bad experience.


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## gap2368

Luke A said:


> I HAVE A CUSTOM FITTED WHEELCHAIR & CAN'T TRANSFER TO ANOTHER CHAIR, CAN I GO IN THE PRE SHOW WATCH IT THEN EXIT? I'M SO DISAPPOINTED WITH THE NA'VI RIVER JOURNEY NOT BEING ACCESSIBLE, IT'S A BOAT RIDE, DISNEY CONVERTED 'IT'S A SMALL WORLD"  'THE JUNGLE CRUISE' SO THEY'RE WHEELCHAIR ACCESSIBLE, I FIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE THEY COULD ADAPT 1 BOAT TO BE WHEELCHAIR ACCESSIBLE.


 You should be able to take a wheelchair through the line and pre-show.

by the way using all caps is considered yelling when typing.


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## SueM in MN

luvmarypoppins said:


> Just wanted to share my experience. Ds and I had a fastpass and he is a nurse so he knew how to handle me. I use a wheelchair mostly as a walker. My other issues are bad knee, back, l eye issues and can't turn my neck well due to two cancer surgeries.
> 
> It was easy getting into the boat. I stepped on the seat and we had the front seat. The seats are very roomy. Getting out was a huge issue. I asked for that stair step. I dont know how its suppose to work, but I ended up on the top of the largest step and it was a huge drop down. By this time I was holding up the loading line. Two male managers came over and each took an arm and got me off that thing.
> 
> Ds and i both agreed that next time it would be better if he tried to just pull me out if the boat.
> 
> I don't know if I used the stepper correctly or the cast member didn't set it up correctly? But coming out was as bad experience.


The stair is not meant for stepping out, it is meant to transfer to and from a wheelchair. 
To get in, the wheelchair is parked next to the step; the height of the wheelchair seat is about even with the wheelchair seat. Then, you transfer to sit on the closest step and ‘bump’ your butt on each step to get into the boat.

To get out, the wheelchair is placed near the last step (the one that was a huge drop). You bump on the steps out of the boat and when you get to the last one, you transfer to the wheelchair.


----------



## bigmac5

My hubby has a knee and hip replacement.  I am worried that he will not be able to do FOP.  Any one here been on with hip and knee replacement


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## gap2368

bigmac5 said:


> My hubby has a knee and hip replacement.  I am worried that he will not be able to do FOP.  Any one here been on with hip and knee replacement




If he can sit on a motorcycle then he should be able to do this ride ( the movement is smooth). There is a test set outside the ride that he can try before he gets in line.


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## bigmac5

gap2368 said:


> If he can sit on a motorcycle then he should be able to do this ride ( the movement is smooth). There is a test set outside the ride that he can try before he gets in line.



While at disney he will be celebrating his 66th birthday and hasn't been on a motorcycle in years.  He will have to try the test one!  Thanks


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## SueM in MN

bigmac5 said:


> While at disney he will be celebrating his 66th birthday and hasn't been on a motorcycle in years.  He will have to try the test one!  Thanks


there are pictures of the actual attraction seating and the test seat on one of the earlier pages of this thread.


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## Toffeewoffy

Just wanted to report back on our recent trip (been home 8 days  ).

Anyway, I took my scooter right through the queue on the Na'vi River ride, and it was extremely easy to step down first onto the seat and then onto the floor of the boat.  Getting up out of the boat was a bit harder: because I'm sort it was a long stretch for me to reach the barriers to haul myself up.  However, it wasn't difficult for me, personally.

I took my scooter right to the entrance of the 'sorting' room at FoP, and they then took it to the exit.  I found no problem in perching on the back of the seat and then shuffling myself forwards until I got as far as I could.  Word of warning - don't push yourself hard against the chest restraint, otherwise you may have breathing problems when the back restraint comes up and presses against your back.

The woman just ahead of me in the queue was on a rollator, and she managed fine with the ride, as well.  She was offered the choice of taking her rollator right to the ride itself but declined.

Absolutely LOVED the ride, and if it hadn't been for the technical issues which resulted in only 2 out of the 3 levels working that day, we may well have gone back and ridden it again using DD's DAS pass.  As it was, even with a FP we were queuing for upwards of 50 minutes with the stand by queue being nearly 4 hours.  We were all given a FP for Na'vi River Journey to make up for the wait, but we'd rather have had the option of doing FoP again!


----------



## BeerMe

Looking for opinions:  We have FP for FoP in early December.  My wife has all sorts of apparatus in her back and uses a WC at WDW.  She loves Soarin and Splash Mountain but not any of the other mountains in MK.  She would like to try FoP but abrupt motion like Gringots and Forbidden Journey in Universal are not things she can ride.  I guess my question is do you think she would  be OK on FoP?  TIA


----------



## mamabunny

BeerMe said:


> Looking for opinions:  We have FP for FoP in early December.  My wife has all sorts of apparatus in her back and uses a WC at WDW.  She loves Soarin and Splash Mountain but not any of the other mountains in MK.  She would like to try FoP but abrupt motion like Gringots and Forbidden Journey in Universal are not things she can ride.  I guess my question is do you think she would  be OK on FoP?  TIA



I would suggest having her watch some of the POV ride videos (Big Fat Panda on YouTube usually has great ones) for FoP to see if it looks like something she might have trouble with.  Back issues, and back pain are *so* subjective; what hurts or bothers me might not even cause her to blink, and vice-versa.

Additionally, FoP does have a "tester" vehicle outside the ride so she can practice sitting on it prior to riding.


----------



## bluecastle

I just got back and I loved it!! After all the research I did, I was actually more concerned about motion sickness than my back. I took Bonine, wore patches, and sea bands that I bought just for this! Anyhow, my back was more affected by the bus rides than FoP! I use an inflatable back cushion and I actually hid it under my shirt, very lightly inflated, just enough to cushion me. It comes with a strap so I knew it wouldn't dislodge during the ride. The back restraint comes up suddenly when you board, but I just sat slightly forward and eased against it. Between the leg and back restraints, holding the handlebars, and squeezing my knees together on the middle section where you feel it "breathing", I hardly moved at all and felt very secure even while the "motion" perceived is swooping, accelerating, diving, and flying. The vehicle itself does not move that much, or at least it does so very smoothly. My DD couldn't believe that the vehicle never actually went anywhere! ( she didn't do any research, she wanted it to be a surprise)
I felt exhilarated and so happy when it was done. I screamed the whole time! Good, fun screaming!
That being said, I agree with the PP that back issues are all different. Good luck! I completely sympathize with the indecision and apprehension that many of us feel.
ETA: What surprised me was PotC! I have always been able to ride that, but on the drop near the beginning, it seemed steeper and faster and landed with more force than I remember. That hurt. Lots of Advil that night.


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## SueM in MN

Our experience at Na’vi River ride was definitely mixed. 
From the boarding area, you can also see the unload area. Each area holds 2 boats at a time, which come to a complete stop for loading and unloading. The photo shows the unload area. The loading area is to the left of the photo.
As we were waiting, we saw one group park a wheelchair, the person walked to the boarding area and got on there while the CM took the wheelchair thru a gate into the unload area. 

A little about my DD - she is about 5 feet tall and weighs about 80 pounds. She has cerebral palsy, which is a movement disorder. She has mixed type, which means she has elements of different types of CP. Her predominant is spastic quad, which means she has very tight and stiff muscles. But, she can switch quickly from being as stiff as a Barbie doll to as loose as a rag doll. When she get excited, everything straightens (goes into extension) . This makes sitting unsupported difficult because she is straighter at the hips than she should be. 

We told the CM who was sending people to boarding that we did not know if we would be able to get our daughter  into the boat. The CM asked if she could walk a few steps. We said no and she asked if it would help us to be able to park her wheelchair closer to the boat. We said that should be helpful and she directed us through the gate to the unload area.

We had a party of 5 and were told that our entire party would fit in this boat. It looks small, but actually would have been comfortable for 4 seated in the back. 
We were told to take our time and load DD in either row - whatever worked best for us.
We chose the back row and loading was actually not that difficult. We parked her wheelchair close to the boat and had one person inside the boat standing on the boat floor to ‘receive’ her. My DH was outside and lifted her in a seated position to the ‘receiver’, who set her on the seat.

The ride itself was good, until it wasn’t.
About halfway through the ride, she got excited and went into extension. The ride seat is not very deep, so when she went into extension, her bottom was partly off the edge of the seat. She tried to push herself back on and we tried to pull her back, but the seat has a rough, non slip texture - kind of like sand was put into the paint. I don’t know if the rough texture hurt her back and bottom where she was pressing against it or not, but she was definitely afraid of her bottom slipping off (she told me later).

Getting off was not bad. I stood on the floor of the boat and stood her up. My DH ‘received’ her and put her in her wheelchair, which was parked a few feet away.

 

So, our experience on Na’vi River ride was definitely mixed. Getting on and off was not as difficult as we thought it would be and she said afterward that she liked the ride. She does not want to go on again though because of the ‘sitting’ issue.


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## mamabunny

Dang.  I'm sorry she didn't have a good experience  

I wish more of the ride vehicles at WDW would allow for the Guest to use their own personal mobility equipment.


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## SueM in MN

We had a mixed experience on Flight of Passage also.

Getting our daughter onto the ride vehicle was pretty easy. 
We parked her wheelchair directly behind her assigned seat. DH and I were each on one side of her holding an arm and a leg to lift her out of her wheelchair and place her on the ride seat. That allowed us to have her legs in the correct position to straddle the seat and get her legs into the leg spots. She held onto the arm holds and we lifted her again to get her slid up far enough in the seat. The CM was helpful in getting the backrest restraint engaged. 
The restraints did hold DD very securely. 

She loved the first minute or so, but when the ride was swooping and moving more quickly, she did not like it. She let go of the handholds and then wasn’t sitting straight.

Some of the things that might have affected her enjoyment:
- she was not wearing the 3D glasses, so everything would have been blurry. They were loose enough on her face (she is a small adult) that we did not think they would stay in place.
- she had a very short seizure just after we got into line. It was very short and she seemed recovered after a few minutes of staying in place in line, and she wanted to go. We had Fastpasses, but possibly could have gone back to the CM at the entrance and gotten some accommodation to come back. We did not use DAS because we were not sure we could get her onto the ride vehicle. 
- she absolutely loves Soarin’ and even wilder things like Test Track and Tower of Terror, so we did not think this would be an issue for her. It might have just been too much stimulation or it could have been the stimulation plus the other things I mentioned.

She is undecided about whether she wants to go again.


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## mamabunny

SueM in MN said:


> We had a mixed experience on Flight of Passage also.
> 
> Getting our daughter onto the ride vehicle was pretty easy.
> We parked her wheelchair directly behind her assigned seat. DH and I were each on one side of her holding an arm and a leg to lift her out of her wheelchair and place her on the ride seat. That allowed us to have her legs in the correct position to straddle the seat and get her legs into the leg spots. She held onto the arm holds and we lifted her again to get her slid up far enough in the seat. The CM was helpful in getting the backrest restraint engaged.
> The restraints did hold DD very securely.
> 
> She loved the first minute or so, but when the ride was swooping and moving more quickly, she did not like it. She let go of the handholds and then wasn’t sitting straight.
> 
> Some of the things that might have affected her enjoyment:
> - she was not wearing the 3D glasses, so everything would have been blurry. They were loose enough on her face (she is a small adult) that we did not think they would stay in place.
> - she had a very short seizure just after we got into line. It was very short and she seemed recovered after a few minutes of staying in place in line, and she wanted to go. We had Fastpasses, but possibly could have gone back to the CM at the entrance and gotten some accommodation to come back. We did not use DAS because we were not sure we could get her onto the ride vehicle.
> - she absolutely loves Soarin’ and even wilder things like Test Track and Tower of Terror, so we did not think this would be an issue for her. It might have just been too much stimulation or it could have been the stimulation plus the other things I mentioned.
> 
> She is undecided about whether she wants to go again.



Gosh, I wish she had been able to really enjoy that; having anticipated it, and been so excited to ride must have made the disappointment that much stronger.

To help mitigate the issue with the glasses, could you take a length of elastic, and sew down a loop on either end, so that when she is wearing the 3D ride glasses, the ends of the temples would go through the loops, and help hold the glasses on?  You would have to kind of eyeball the length, and make sure the elastic wouldn't be so tight that it would cause discomfort, but you could even achieve the same effect with safety pins to hold the loops if you don't have easy access to a sewing machine (and safety pins would allow you to make adjustments if needed).  It's just a thought...

I hope if she decides to try again, she has a much better experience!


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## zaksmom

I wonder if they will ever add a ride vehicle to NRJ that can handle a wheelchair or with a lift seat of some type. I know the population it would serve is small, but it well represented at Disney. We had to cancel our fall trip and had gotten fast passes, but I doubt we'd been able to get our son on and off. This was the main attraction he wanted to see this time and is hoping they might make some changes before we go back.


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## DisneyOma

SueM in MN said:


> So, our experience on Na’vi River ride was definitely mixed. Getting on and off was not as difficult as we thought it would be and she said afterward that she liked the ride. She does not want to go on again though because of the ‘sitting’ issue.



Does she stay in her wheelchair for all the other bench seat type attractions? The seats on Na'vi seemed just like the ones for PotC, Maelstrom (haven't gone on FEA yet) etc. What do you think it was about this one bench seat that was off for her?


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## SueM in MN

DisneyOma said:


> Does she stay in her wheelchair for all the other bench seat type attractions? The seats on Na'vi seemed just like the ones for PotC, Maelstrom (haven't gone on FEA yet) etc. What do you think it was about this one bench seat that was off for her?


She used to go on Pirates and has been on Maelstrom, but her last time on Pirates was a few years ago and Maelstrom was even longer ago.

Pirates is too low for us to easily lift her on and off and the high sides on Maelstrom were too hard to lift her over and clear her legs over the side.
Frozen Ever After uses the same boats as Maelstrom.

If a boat ride has a wheelchair boat, we use it (Mexico, Small World).

I think part of the issue with Na’vi River Ride was that my DH and a friend were putting her on. Normally, it would be DH handing her over to me. But, we were with a male friend who ‘received’ her. He wasn’t used to it and may not have set her down straight.


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## DemonLlama

so, I'm reading the motion on FoP is very smooth. Any jerky drops and twists to speak of? Fractured pelvis is asking. 

After 2 years planning, and scoring FoP FPs at 5:00 a.m. my time at the 60 day mark, I'm loathe to consider ditching the experience.


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## SueM in MN

zaksmom said:


> I wonder if they will ever add a ride vehicle to NRJ that can handle a wheelchair or with a lift seat of some type. I know the population it would serve is small, but it well represented at Disney. We had to cancel our fall trip and had gotten fast passes, but I doubt we'd been able to get our son on and off. This was the main attraction he wanted to see this time and is hoping they might make some changes before we go back.


I had heard rumors that there was going to be some kind of a custom accessible device - possibly a transfer boat with a seat that lifts and pivots out and back into the boat for easier transfer.
Obviously, there was nothing available when we got there.


DemonLlama said:


> so, I'm reading the motion on FoP is very smooth. Any jerky drops and twists to speak of? Fractured pelvis is asking.
> 
> After 2 years planning, and scoring FoP FPs at 5:00 a.m. my time at the 60 day mark, I'm loathe to consider ditching the experience.


It is pretty smooth, but very intense. There were times when i was leaned far forward and there were some changes of direction. Those motions would likely put pressure on different areas of your pelvis.

There is a practice ride vehicle close the ride entrance. I would suggest trying it to see if you can even comfortably get into position and sit for a few minutes for the ride car.
The other thing I’d suggest (but, no guarantee they would allow) would be to quickly explain your situation and ask at the ride entrance if a member of your group could ride so they can give you an idea of how rough it might be before you decide whether or not you can ride.


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## bluecastle

DemonLlama said:


> so, I'm reading the motion on FoP is very smooth. Any jerky drops and twists to speak of? Fractured pelvis is asking.
> 
> After 2 years planning, and scoring FoP FPs at 5:00 a.m. my time at the 60 day mark, I'm loathe to consider ditching the experience.



I don't have a fractured pelvis, but I have multiple back issues. Sometimes my pain increases with the slightest movement, like a car accelerating, and sometimes I am fine. The ride that hurt me the most this trip was Pirates! The short drop at the beginning had a harder landing than I ever remembered before and it really hurt. But, on FoP I was fine! I hid a slightly inflated back cushion under my shirt ( it was tied securely) to give me a little extra soft support between my back and the ride support. The ride starts very quickly when the white lights flash so be ready for that. Once it started, I leaned forward and moved with the vehicle in the direction that I felt like I was flying judging by what I saw on the screen. I whooped and hollered the whole time which helped me to relax and enjoy it. I also had motion sickness concerns, so I took Bonine, and bought SeaBands and patches! No problems! I loved this ride so much and I am so glad I tried it. But, every back problem is different. I can only tell you my experience.  Keep researching! I agonized over my decision for months and didn't decide until I got on the vehicle! ( we had FP so it didn't take too long to get to the ride)  Good luck!
ETA: I had forgotten that I posted on p.7! Sorry for the duplicate information.


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## Absimilliard

I rode both Pandora rides two weeks ago and I had some observations: 

- For Nav'i River Journey, my mom was able to do an easy transfer to the boat. I know the tech behind the ride and its a lot more advanced than it appears: think of it of the Peoplemover in water. Magnets under the water push the boats along and this is probably one of the two reasons why a wheelchair boat could not be designed for the ride. Due to all the tech located under the boat and the fact the boats are so short due to the tight curves, a traditional wheelchair boat with a ramp or slope inside won't work. Perhaps a pool style lift could be installed at unload, but you then run into the challenge that you would stop a boat 1-2 minutes at the minimum, destroying capacity and forcing a lot of boats to wait at the end. 

- For Flight of Passage, I had concerns since I am 6'3, 270 lbs. I was able to push my legs all the way forward and the restraints did not feel tight at all. If this is considered tight, I am scared to think of what will happen when TRON Lightcycle Power Run opens at the Magic Kingdom. Those TAV's will see a ton of use! For people who can't navigate stairs or use an ECV or wheelchair, level 1 it will be for you. Level 2 and 3 all have stairs to go back down to the ground floor. Thankfully, the screens are so big that even on Level 1, it does not break the illusion like it does on Soarin'.


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## Absimilliard

DemonLlama said:


> so, I'm reading the motion on FoP is very smooth. Any jerky drops and twists to speak of? Fractured pelvis is asking.
> 
> After 2 years planning, and scoring FoP FPs at 5:00 a.m. my time at the 60 day mark, I'm loathe to consider ditching the experience.



Without going into spoilers, expect two startling drops: one at the start and another halfway through the experience after a break. Even with those drops, the ride motions are very smooth and there were no jerky movements. My mother with severe back issues was able to ride with no issues and I was scared about the back rest, but I kept an eye on it when it lifted and warned her when it touched her.


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## mamabunny

Absimilliard said:


> I rode both Pandora rides two weeks ago and I had some observations:
> 
> - For Nav'i River Journey,...  ...I know the tech behind the ride and its a lot more advanced than it appears: think of it of the Peoplemover in water. Magnets under the water push the boats along and this is probably one of the two reasons why a wheelchair boat could not be designed for the ride. Due to all the tech located under the boat and the fact the boats are so short due to the tight curves, a traditional wheelchair boat with a ramp or slope inside won't work. Perhaps a pool style lift could be installed at unload, but you then run into the challenge that you would stop a boat 1-2 minutes at the minimum, destroying capacity and forcing a lot of boats to wait at the end.




Why couldn't a "gate" be made in the side of the boat, a ramp that flips out, and a turntable that the mobility device sits on installed?  (if engineered correctly, the "gate" could also be the ramp... but I digress)

Solutions *could* be found - but just like with POC and many other rides at WDW, no one has taken the time to consider it from the viewpoint of the mobility device user.  I can't make the steps into or out of any boat ride at WDW, even with assistance; unless there is a wheelchair or ECV friendly vehicle, I can't ride.  

Although WDW is one of the most "friendly" places for me to vacation, the reality is that access is NOT equal across the Parks; there remain many rides where there is virtually no access for many full-time mobility device users like myself.

WDW knows better; I personally feel that by designing these most recent rides in such an exclusionary fashion they have no one to blame but themselves if a ride has to be stopped or slowed because someone requires more time to load or unload.  They know better.


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## Absimilliard

mamabunny said:


> Why couldn't a "gate" be made in the side of the boat, a ramp that flips out, and a turntable that the mobility device sits on installed?  (if engineered correctly, the "gate" could also be the ramp... but I digress)
> 
> Solutions *could* be found - but just like with POC and many other rides at WDW, no one has taken the time to consider it from the viewpoint of the mobility device user.  I can't make the steps into or out of any boat ride at WDW, even with assistance; unless there is a wheelchair or ECV friendly vehicle, I can't ride.
> 
> Although WDW is one of the most "friendly" places for me to vacation, the reality is that access is NOT equal across the Parks; there remain many rides where there is virtually no access for many full-time mobility device users like myself.
> 
> WDW knows better; I personally feel that by designing these most recent rides in such an exclusionary fashion they have no one to blame but themselves if a ride has to be stopped or slowed because someone requires more time to load or unload.  They know better.



Vertical clearances. The ride is at the bottom of a crowded building and if you add the solution that you mention, you're going into rider's enveloppe issues. Think about Its a Small World: whoever is using the accessible boat is in a much higher position than the regular riders. On Nav'i River Journey, there are theme elements hanging from a lower than usual ceiling and if you sat any higher, you could touch the scenery and other things. I won't go into backstage details, but let's just say they could not make the ceiling any higher than it was.


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## BeerMe

My wife has serious back issues and has had several disks fused and lots of instrumentation in her back  We use WC and/or ECV in the parks.  She really wanted to go on FoP especially after hearing it was similar to Soarin.  Well, long story short, she went on it and loved it.  Everyone is different, so take this with a grain of salt if you have back problems/


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## blondietink

We are going to WDW in October and should be able to ride the river journey, but my adult son with low muscle tone will never to able to ride Flights I'm afraid.  He would need support all along his torso to keep himself on the ride and it doesn't sound like the back support would do it for him, especially when you have to lean forward (he's considered a vertical child).  Also, his general fears of new things and inability to wear/use 3D glasses would make it a waste of time even waiting in line.  So, it looks like me (mom) will have to find something else to do with him while Dad and other son go on Flights. So disappointed that WDW did not make truly accessible rides in Pandora, especially when the main character in the movie has a disability.


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## SueM in MN

blondietink said:


> We are going to WDW in October and should be able to ride the river journey, but my adult son with low muscle tone will never to able to ride Flights I'm afraid.  He would need support all along his torso to keep himself on the ride and it doesn't sound like the back support would do it for him, especially when you have to lean forward (he's considered a vertical child).  Also, his general fears of new things and inability to wear/use 3D glasses would make it a waste of time even waiting in line.  So, it looks like me (mom) will have to find something else to do with him while Dad and other son go on Flights. So disappointed that WDW did not make truly accessible rides in Pandora, especially when the main character in the movie has a disability.


there is a trial seat outside of the attraction that you can try if you want to make sure whether or not he could ride.
We did not think our daughter would be able to ride, but after seeing the trial vehicle, we were sure she could. The ride vehicle itself was a fairly easy transfer and she did feel secure.
I think the issue was just too much sensory input for her.


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## dizneefan13

Does Nav'i River Journey have supports you can grab onto to help you out of the boat?  If so, I'll be fine. I have no problem with
Pirates because I can grab onto those bars/dividers when getting out.
And, are the Nav'i boats as low as the ones on Pirates?  I have to step onto the seat and then the floor to get in. I see lots of people who have to do the same thing.


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## GranJan1

dizneefan13 said:


> Does Nav'i River Journey have supports you can grab onto to help you out of the boat?  If so, I'll be fine. I have no problem with
> Pirates because I can grab onto those bars/dividers when getting out.
> And, are the Nav'i boats as low as the ones on Pirates?  I have to step onto the seat and then the floor to get in. I see lots of people who have to do the same thing.


I rode Nav'i River Journey with no problems & I cannot climb in or out of boats. They have a step thing that you can sit on then slide down a few steps to get down to the boat. We spoke with a CM at the entrance to the ride who almost discouraged me from trying it. She said the step thing was too low & most people had difficulty with it. I'm glad I didn't listen to her. It was the perfect height for me to slide from my chair onto then down to the boat. They let me drive my chair right up to it then they moved my chair out of the way & brought it back after the ride was over. The only issue was the CM who brought my chair back left it turned on & I didn't realize until after I got back in it. Luckily I didn't bump the joystick as I was transferring. I always remember to turn the chair off but this was my 1st time bringing it instead of my ECV to WDW. I need to always check it if a CM has just brought it to me...that joystick is so easy to bump. I really don't remember supports on the boat. I think I just held the armrest of my chair & maybe the back of the boat as I slid down the steps. I think Sue posted some photos of the step thing a few posts up. Actually, her photos & description of how it was to be used gave me an idea of how I could easily get in & out of our pool. I bought a plastic step intended for hot tubs & I'm able to scoot up the pool steps then up the plastic step to a perfect height to get in my chair. This does take some arm strength as does the step assist thing at the Nav'i River Journey. I don't have normal arm strength but I was able to do it. Someone whose not in a chair but just can't climb in & out of boats may have a different experience with the step assist thing. They may find it too low to sit down on from a standing position. That may be the reason the CM at the ride entrance told us it didn't work for some people but it wasn't near as low as she described. We told her after we rode that it worked great & she should let the guests try it & not discourage them. We had a FP so it was worth a try. I guess it would be bad to wait in line & then find it wouldn't work for you. Look for Sue's photos up a few posts so you'll get a better idea than my description.


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## dizneefan13

Thanks, GranJan, glad you didn't listen to CM who said the steps might not work for you. We never know if something will work unless we try it.

 I don't need the steps so maybe I'll just have my DH give me a good pull helping me get out if need be. Getting in will be fine.


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## GranJan1

dizneefan13 said:


> Thanks, GranJan, glad you didn't listen to CM who said the steps might not work for you. We never know if something will work unless we try it.
> 
> I don't need the steps so maybe I'll just have my DH give me a good pull helping me get out if need be. Getting in will be fine.


It looks like in Sue's photos in post 102 there are handrails so that would probably be all you need.


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## dizneefan13

Thanks GranJan, I see in the photo that each row has only one rail, probably so they can fit a wheelchair as close to the boat as
possible. I think that will work, if the boats aren't real low. Kinda looks like they aren't as low as the ones on Pirates.


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## SueM in MN

dizneefan13 said:


> Thanks GranJan, I see in the photo that each row has only one rail, probably so they can fit a wheelchair as close to the boat as
> possible. I think that will work, if the boats aren't real low. Kinda looks like they aren't as low as the ones on Pirates.


The picture in my post about our experience was the handicapped/wheelchair boarding area, which is actually the unload area for everyone.
You are correct that the rails are arranged to make it easier to get close with a wheelchair.

The pictures in this post are the regular boarding area, which might give you a better idea of the rails. The load and unload areas are right next to each other.
If you have a mobility device, you will park it at the unload area. But, you can choose to load at the ‘regular’ area if it would work out better for you. Just let the CM know.

PS - I copied these from another post and they don’t show unless you click on each one.
View attachment 241768 View attachment 241769 View attachment 241770 View attachment 241771


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## desl10

gap2368 said:


> I am doing the Preview for pandora and was wondering if any one else was going?
> and if any one know if the rides were wheel chair accessible or not. I might be going with a friend that uses an ECV but she can transfer if need be,



My grandma will be 8 months post op from a knee replacement. How comfortable knee room is this ride?


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## gap2368

desl10 said:


> My grandma will be 8 months post op from a knee replacement. How comfortable knee room is this ride?


can she bind her knee 90 degrees? this wil tell you if she can go also there is a test set out front of the ride


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## desl10

gap2368 said:


> can she bind her knee 90 degrees? this wil tell you if she can go also there is a test set out front of the ride


Oh wow! I had no idea about the test. I haven't Been to Disney in 4-5 years. I will read up on it. She is currently stilling doing PT so I will have to check in with her. Hopefully by December she will have all the motion she is suppose to have.


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## mamabunny

desl10 said:


> Oh wow! I had no idea about the test. I haven't Been to Disney in 4-5 years. I will read up on it. She is currently stilling doing PT so I will have to check in with her. Hopefully by December she will have all the motion she is suppose to have.



Disney has a lot fewer test seats than Universal, but both of the rides in Pandora have them, luckily!

She has lots of time to get ready - I'm sure everyone will join me in wishing her a full recovery!


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## desl10

mamabunny said:


> Disney has a lot fewer test seats than Universal, but both of the rides in Pandora have them, luckily!
> 
> She has lots of time to get ready - I'm sure everyone will join me in wishing her a full recovery!


Thanks . She is 81 and has wanted to go back to Disney for years. Seeing her great grandkids in Disney is her goal she said. She scheduled her surgery around having enough time to recover. I cant wait to experience the magic with both my kids and my Grandma! She is a trooper and said she doesn’t mind not going on the rides she just wants to see the kids experience it for the first time! It’s been 20 plus years since she went.


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## mamabunny

Wow! I hope she has the best possible trip!


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## GraceLuvsWDW

Last year my (then 14yo) daughter with HFA and other chronic health issues had problems riding FoP. Her issues were with the Back and leg restraints and sensory/anxiety issues. She stated the restraints were too tight and I think due to her anxiety she struggled to get free of them which caused bruising on her back. We spent a good amount of time in first aid allowing her to lie down in a dark room and recover from the experience. 

She says she wants to try to ride it this year. This has me pretty concerned. I was wondering if there’s any way to get her into the restraints carefully BEFORE I get situated. I know this is probably a long shot but I’d like for her to be able to do this without the threat of a repeat of last year. If anyone has any ideas on how we could approach this I’d greatly appreciate any input. Thank you!


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## mamabunny

GraceLuvsWDW said:


> Last year my (then 14yo) daughter with HFA and other chronic health issues had problems riding FoP. Her issues were with the Back and leg restraints and sensory/anxiety issues. She stated the restraints were too tight and I think due to her anxiety she struggled to get free of them which caused bruising on her back. We spent a good amount of time in first aid allowing her to lie down in a dark room and recover from the experience.
> 
> She says she wants to try to ride it this year. This has me pretty concerned. I was wondering if there’s any way to get her into the restraints carefully BEFORE I get situated. I know this is probably a long shot but I’d like for her to be able to do this without the threat of a repeat of last year. If anyone has any ideas on how we could approach this I’d greatly appreciate any input. Thank you!



There is a test seat outside of FOP - did she try it last year before riding?

I would recommend making sure that she can (quickly and easily) get comfortable using the test seat. As I know you already know all too well, a year can make a difference in sensory and anxiety issues; maybe having the year to think about it has allowed her to prepare mentally for this next trip!  I hope she gets to ride if the test seat proves comfortable - and I hope it's everything she wants it to be!


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## Huff

I'm another wondering if I can ride Flight of Passage.  As I understand you must sit leaning slightly forward with a restraint that presses against the lower back.  I have a bad lower back.  Most rides I'm fine on but that restraint could be a problem.  Does this restraint style pose problems for others with lower back pain?


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## SueM in MN

GraceLuvsWDW said:


> Last year my (then 14yo) daughter with HFA and other chronic health issues had problems riding FoP. Her issues were with the Back and leg restraints and sensory/anxiety issues. She stated the restraints were too tight and I think due to her anxiety she struggled to get free of them which caused bruising on her back. We spent a good amount of time in first aid allowing her to lie down in a dark room and recover from the experience.
> 
> She says she wants to try to ride it this year. This has me pretty concerned. I was wondering if there’s any way to get her into the restraints carefully BEFORE I get situated. I know this is probably a long shot but I’d like for her to be able to do this without the threat of a repeat of last year. If anyone has any ideas on how we could approach this I’d greatly appreciate any input. Thank you!


The ride doesn’t start until everyone is safely in place and restrained.
When we took our daughter on, we needed to lift her on and get her situated before my husband and I could get settled in our seats. We had plenty of time to do that.
In our case, it was obvious that we needed to help her, but I’m sure other people help a member of their party to get situated also - especially smaller children or people who are concerned about being flexible enough or unsteady getting into the somewhat unusual ride vehicles. Tell the CM as you get to the ‘ride’ room.

You might be able to help her get desensitized by trying out the ride seat outside of the attraction multiple times.

If worse comes to worse, guests can exit the ride room at any time until everyone is secured. The last time I rode, 2 people sat down and then got up and walked thru to the exit because they got scared. One of them had actually been secured and asked the CM to loosen her restraints so she could get out. Obviously, there is a point where that is no longer an option, but it does help some people to know . 
It might also help her to know that the ride itself is about 4 minutes 30 seconds. 


Huff said:


> I'm another wondering if I can ride Flight of Passage.  As I understand you must sit leaning slightly forward with a restraint that presses against the lower back.  I have a bad lower back.  Most rides I'm fine on but that restraint could be a problem.  Does this restraint style pose problems for others with lower back pain?


I’d suggest trying the test seat outside the attraction. That way, you can see just how far you would need to lean forward and where the back restraint would come on you - it will vary depending on the rider. There is also a CM out there who can answer questions and give hints. The CM can put the restraints up, but not lock them.

One hint I’ve seen and used (because I don’t like being held tightly) is to sit forward, but not all the way tight to the front part - give yourself about an 3/4 to 1 inch of space. That way, when the restraints come up, they will be tight, but not too tight.


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## gap2368

GraceLuvsWDW said:


> Last year my (then 14yo) daughter with HFA and other chronic health issues had problems riding FoP. Her issues were with the Back and leg restraints and sensory/anxiety issues. She stated the restraints were too tight and I think due to her anxiety she struggled to get free of them which caused bruising on her back. We spent a good amount of time in first aid allowing her to lie down in a dark room and recover from the experience.
> 
> She says she wants to try to ride it this year. This has me pretty concerned. I was wondering if there’s any way to get her into the restraints carefully BEFORE I get situated. I know this is probably a long shot but I’d like for her to be able to do this without the threat of a repeat of last year. If anyone has any ideas on how we could approach this I’d greatly appreciate any input. Thank you!


I have the same problems with the back being too tight.  One thing I do is I sit up straight and leave some room between me and the part In front it will push you a little bit once it is locked it will not move


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## bluecastle

I have an inflatable back cushion that comes with a belt. I blew it up slightly, just enough to fit between my back and the restraint when it came up. I wore it under my shirt. I also leaned forward a bit. I don't know if it was psychological, knowing that I had comfy support, or if it really helped, but I was fine. I also took Bonine, wore seabands, and some other patches to prevent motion sickness. I leaned into the ride and whooped and hollered. I also did not eat a heavy meal before it. I might have taken some Advil too, I don't remember! I just know that I loved it and my back was fine! OTOH, when I rode Pirates the next night, I was totally surprised by my back's reaction to the small drop in the beginning. When the boat hit the water I had what I call my scary back pain. Another ride to put on my Do Not Ride list. 
Anyhow, there is no way to predict how each person who deals with chronic pain will react to this ride. I posted frequently early on in this thread as I was trying to make up my mind whether to try it or not. I'm glad I did try it, but I may not ride it again on future trips because it involved so much preparation! ( plus my back can be unpredictable) Good luck!


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## katmittens

bluecastle said:


> I have an inflatable back cushion that comes with a belt. I blew it up slightly, just enough to fit between my back and the restraint when it came up. I wore it under my shirt. I also leaned forward a bit. I don't know if it was psychological, knowing that I had comfy support, or if it really helped, but I was fine. I also took Bonine, wore seabands, and some other patches to prevent motion sickness. I leaned into the ride and whooped and hollered. I also did not eat a heavy meal before it. I might have taken some Advil too, I don't remember! I just know that I loved it and my back was fine! OTOH, when I rode Pirates the next night, I was totally surprised by my back's reaction to the small drop in the beginning. When the boat hit the water I had what I call my scary back pain. Another ride to put on my Do Not Ride list.
> Anyhow, there is no way to predict how each person who deals with chronic pain will react to this ride. I posted frequently early on in this thread as I was trying to make up my mind whether to try it or not. I'm glad I did try it, but I may not ride it again on future trips because it involved so much preparation! ( plus my back can be unpredictable) Good luck!


H


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## katmittens

[QUOTE="katmittens, post: 59580986, member: 1433

 but has anyone rode this ride who has had back fusion surgery. I had surgery 8 months ago and when we were there in May I did not go on it, but will be back in Nov. so it will be one year, just curious if anyone has done it. I did try the one outside but I was unaware that the one outside did not lock you into place.


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## smidgy

katmittens said:


> [QUOTE="katmittens, post: 59580986, member: 1433
> 
> but has anyone rode this ride who has had back fusion surgery. I had surgery 8 months ago and when we were there in May I did not go on it, but will be back in Nov. so it will be one year, just curious if anyone has done it. I did try the one outside but I was unaware that the one outside did not lock you into place.



I'm also interested as my hubby had back fusion surgery a couple years ago.   when are you going? we are going mid sept.  if he chooses to ride it I'll try to post.


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## blondietink

I have secured FP's for the ride for our stay in late October for the 4 of us, but only 2 of us will ride.  My son has Down syndrome and has had scoliosis surgery, so we are not chancing it.  He has a lot of fears about being restrained, so it just isn't worth the anxiety of trying to get him on it. Lastly, he has vision problems and cannot wear any 3d glasses so again, not worth it..  I figure as long as we have the FP's, at least we can walk through the ride and see all of the decorations and then just wait a few minutes for the others to get off the ride.


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## gap2368

blondietink said:


> I have secured FP's for the ride for our stay in late October for the 4 of us, but only 2 of us will ride.  My son has Down syndrome and has had scoliosis surgery, so we are not chancing it.  He has a lot of fears about being restrained, so it just isn't worth the anxiety of trying to get him on it. Lastly, he has vision problems and cannot wear any 3d glasses so again, not worth it..  I figure as long as we have the FP's, at least we can walk through the ride and see all of the decorations and then just wait a few minutes for the others to get off the ride.


You miss every thing when you go though the FP line


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## BillSears

I rode Flight of Passage yesterday!  As a paraplegic with no use of my lower half but good arm strength I had no issue getting onto/off of the ride.  I took my front foot rests off, brought my wheelchair straight in to the ride seat, slid my feet into the side slots, and then slid my butt forward onto the ride seat.  Going back was even easier I just slid back into my wheelchair seat.

The part that will decide whether I will ever ride this ride again is the hill going up to the ride.  It's steep and VERY long.  I was early for my FP and I was talking about it to the CM at the test seat.  I asked her about how long it really was compared to TOT and she said it was much longer.  But I got a lot of Pixie Dust when she offered to push me up the hill.  After traveling the queue myself I can see it would not be worth it for me to push up that by myself.  I'd be sore and worn out from just one ride.  So in the future I'll only book the FP for this ride if I'm traveling with others who can help push.


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## Kim in PA

BillSears said:


> I rode Flight of Passage yesterday!  As a paraplegic with no use of my lower half but good arm strength I had no issue getting onto/off of the ride.  I took my front foot rests off, brought my wheelchair straight in to the ride seat, slid my feet into the side slots, and then slid my butt forward onto the ride seat.  Going back was even easier I just slid back into my wheelchair seat.
> 
> The part that will decide whether I will ever ride this ride again is the hill going up to the ride.  It's steep and VERY long.  I was early for my FP and I was talking about it to the CM at the test seat.  I asked her about how long it really was compared to TOT and she said it was much longer.  But I got a lot of Pixie Dust when she offered to push me up the hill.  After traveling the queue myself I can see it would not be worth it for me to push up that by myself.  I'd be sore and worn out from just one ride.  So in the future I'll only book the FP for this ride if I'm traveling with others who can help push.



Thank you so much for this info! My daughter has spina bifida and we were wondering about this ride.


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## gap2368

Kim in PA said:


> Thank you so much for this info! My daughter has spina bifida and we were wondering about this ride.


They do have a test set out front she could try first to see if it will work


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## Kim in PA

I can tell from your description that she will be fine.


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## bigmac5

BillSears said:


> The part that will decide whether I will ever ride this ride again is the hill going up to the ride.  It's steep and VERY long.  I was early for my FP and I was talking about it to the CM at the test seat.  I asked her about how long it really was compared to TOT and she said it was much longer.  But I got a lot of Pixie Dust when she offered to push me up the hill.  After traveling the queue myself I can see it would not be worth it for me to push up that by myself.  I'd be sore and worn out from just one ride.  So in the future I'll only book the FP for this ride if I'm traveling with others who can help push.



My hubby and I we there Oct 2017 and he was walking with a cane.  We were shown an elevator and that is how we were able to do that ride...I know my hubby would not have made it without using the elevator.  I am surprised you weren't told about that


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## ArianaReyes92

I am so excited to go ride this at AK in 2 weeks!!!


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## BroganMc

Pandora is a huge disappointment to me because neither of the rides is accessible. Navi River should have a wheelchair vehicle but it doesn't. It is a very difficult lift down into the boat and out again for a very short ride that has no relevant story. Pretty animatronics and scenery but it's not worth it. Neither for the wait nor the difficulty of getting on and off.

Flight of passage is not accessible to anyone who cannot ride astride.  If you cannot separate your legs enough to get on a horse or a motorcycle, there is absolutely no other way to experience this attraction. No stationary seats to watch the movie. No way to park a wheelchair to seat. No way to sit side saddle or anything else. Completely inaccessible. It is also affecting people who are pooh-sized or have trouble bending their knees.

The only positive thing I can say about Pandora is that the landscaping around that area of the park is very pretty after dark. But other than that it's a huge waste of time for me. At least I don't have to waste my resources on it. I have complained many times to guest relations. Disney doesn't care.

Every other new attraction Disney built since Pandora has been accessible. They actually took the time to give alternate ways of people experiencing the attractions. And the only lifts I have to deal with are for thrill rides like Guardians of the Galaxy and Slinky Dog.


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## SueM in MN

BroganMc said:


> *Navi River should have a wheelchair vehicle but it doesn't. It is a very difficult lift down into the boat and out again for a very short ride that has no relevant story. *Pretty animatronics and scenery but it's not worth it. Neither for the wait nor the difficulty of getting on and off.
> 
> *Flight of passage is not accessible to anyone who cannot ride astride.  If you cannot separate your legs enough to get on a horse or a motorcycle, there is absolutely no other way to experience this attraction. No stationary seats to watch the movie. No way to park a wheelchair to seat. No way to sit side saddle or anything else.
> 
> Every other new attraction Disney built since Pandora has been accessible. They actually took the time to give alternate ways of people experiencing the attractions*. And the only lifts I have to deal with are for thrill rides like Guardians of the Galaxy and Slinky Dog.


I’ve been told the reason that Navi River is not accessible is the size of the boats - they are too small to include a ramp similar to Small World and can’t have a ride vehicle with an integrated ramp similar to Buzz Lightyear, Imagination or Finding Nemo because of the real water.
*And, the reason I’ve heard the boats couldn’t be bigger was budget cuts to the attraction. *The size of the attraction was apparently cut meaning they also had to cut the size of the boats to fit turns and spacing. Another casualty of bean counters versus show.

My family found Flight of Passage to be an easy transfer for our daughter, but that’s only part of it.
My DH lifted her leg and arm from one side and I lifted from the other. They also have a clever transfer wheelchair. BUT, as you pointed out, transfer is only part of it - guests need to be able to separate their legs enough to sit astride it _and stay in that position _for about 4 minutes to ride. My DD did fine and enjoyed it for the first 30 seconds or so, then wanted off. 
I can see why they couldn’t safely have a side saddle position, given the motions during the ride. But, they could have made an alternate experience in a stable theater. For example, the movies in China and Canada (and even France) give the illusion of moving while you stay firmly on the ground. 

Many of the newest attractions - Slinky Dog, Mickey & Minnie’s Runaway Railroad, Guardians of the Galaxy and the upcoming TRON ride all have alternate ways to board. But, because of their motion, they shut out a lot of guests. They are not safe for my DD and since Guardians made me very sick, I’m not likely to try TRON.
The Runaway Railroad doesn’t have a wheelchair car like Remy’s Ratatouille Adventure. It does have a nice, dedicated accessible loading area, but the small opening on the side of the vehicle makes it a challenge to get in and out.
My DD rode it once and enjoyed part of the ride, but because it has a slippery bench seat and a grab bar instead of seat belts, she felt very insecure and needed support from DH and I to keep from sliding around. Remy is a pretty similar ride, but Remy has a very nice wheelchair accessible ride car.

She’s not a fragile person and loves thrill rides - if she feels safe. She loves Tower of Terror, Mission Space Green, Test Track and especially loves Rise of the Resistance. I think she would also like Smuggler’s Run, but because the individual seats have no side support, we don’t think it would be safe for her - that’s another situation where a small change in the ride seats could have made it more accessible to more people.


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