# The VGF 2 pricing thread



## CastAStone

I think it would be good if the other VGF thread could focus on the resort itself and not pricing, also I’m curious what everyone thinks.


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## JETSDAD

I'm going with slightly more expensive (I think within $5-10/pt) and a higher chart on those studios than the current studios.


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## Sandisw

I think it will start out about $20 more than RIV, but definitely will have the same point chart as VGF, with the caveat that the studio prices may go up a bit across the entire resort.


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## RoseGold

I really hope they use at least some of the existing booking categories.  I'd hate to see the whole cost of VGF ratcheted up, though I fear that is what might happen.

If they make up new categories, the lockoffs will never be bookable.  They were tough before.  They will be impossible with twice the points and the cheapest bookings there.

I can totally see a new theme park view or even a close to hospitality house or club level type category.  I just hope they don't make the whole building cost more points.

And yea, I say 275 for VGF.  Cash grabs require grabbing cash.


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## Robert Stoddart

I think the price for Riviera goes up at the conclusion of these incentives, but VGF opens higher than that.  I don't know if it gets higher than $255 currently but for sure (well for sure to me) it doesn't come down to $201.  Points chart stays the same.  Probably some incentives to start, but lower than what RIV is getting now.  Pleasantly surprised at the current summer incentives to be honest.


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## 4luv2cdisney

Anyone want to go back and see who won the "what will Riviera pricing be" game?  Maybe they can weigh in?!  lol

I'm going same price as Riv (which will obv be higher than now when it hits).  I think the GF is not as popular to the general public as some think and more people are starting to favor Epcot / HS over MK plus Riv has a longer contract.  Enough people don't seem to really care about the resale restrictions. Most importantly, there is no way it will be priced above BLT, Poly and probably not CCV since it will be in active sales mode.  So, while I wouldn't be shocked at $5-10 more, I'm going to vote it opens at same but with no incentives and they adjust pricing rapidly based on sales response.

Points chart is really hard without knowing what the rooms will be like.  If we're talking no kitchenette, I don't think they can be higher just for a little square footage.  There's probably no way the bathroom is going to be upgraded with an additional shower....
I'm gonna say it will be trade-off situation.  Same points chart unless it gets a kitchenette.


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## Bjaiken77

Good thread.  I’m curious to see the voting.  I voted that I think VGF will be priced a little higher because it’s Disney’s flagship resort. I think the point chart may be higher, but with talks of a new room category, it may not justify the increase.  I don’t think the point chart will go lower.


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## sethschroeder

RIV - $215
VGF - $255 list
VGF - $245 @ 150 points (new blue card minimum)
VGF - $235 @ 200 points ($20 more than RIV)

Point charts for studios will be more than they are today at VGF. Could be new addition is more or could mean all studios are more.


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## Bjaiken77

sethschroeder said:


> RIV - $215
> VGF - $255 list
> VGF - $245 @ 150 points (new blue card minimum)
> VGF - $235 @ 200 points ($20 more than RIV)
> 
> Point charts for studios will be more than they are today at VGF. Could be new addition is more or could mean all studios are more.



Thats possible, and I have no interest in VGF at that price point.  But that’s pretty expensive to sell a lot of points.


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## Marionnette

sethschroeder said:


> Point charts for studios will be more than they are today at VGF. Could be new addition is more or could mean all studios are more.


The point chart for 2022 for VGF1 is already out. Can DVC raise the number of points needed for studios in the original building before they have even started work next spring? I ask this because I see this idea being floated out there frequently and I'm curious, since current members are booking studios in the original building for 2022, how can DVC raise the number of points required for VGF1 studios for the inaugural year of VGF2? I'm specifically focusing on those dates which fall in August thru December when VGF2 will have opened but VGF1 owners will have already booked their stays starting in September 2021.


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## Sandisw

Marionnette said:


> The point chart for 2022 for VGF1 is already out. Can DVC raise the number of points needed for studios in the original building before they have even started work next spring? I ask this because I see this idea being floated out there frequently and I'm curious, since current members are booking studios in the original building for 2022, how can DVC raise the number of points required for VGF1 studios for the inaugural year of VGF2? I'm specifically focusing on those dates which fall in August thru December when VGF2 will have opened but VGF1 owners will have already booked their stays starting in September 2021.



I think the adjustments, if any, would be only for dates that have not yet been booked.

Since there is talk that DVCM was going to be releasing revised 2022 charts for all resorts, these new rooms would need to be added.

It leads me to believe that for 2022, they will be the same as VGF1, and that only a room that is classified as a new category would be added


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## Marionnette

Sandisw said:


> I think the adjustments, if any, would be only for dates that have not yet been booked.
> 
> Since there is talk that DVCM was going to be releasing revised 2022 charts for all resorts, these new rooms would need to be added.
> 
> It leads me to believe that for 2022, they will be the same as VGF1, and that only a room that is classified as a new category would be added


That sounds reasonable to me. But taking it a step further...don't all points for the expansion have to be declared in the POS before the sale of even one point takes place? So if all studios remain the same number of points in both VGF1 and VGF2 (with the exception of any new booking categories) in 2022, would it not follow suit then that DVC could not raise VGF2 points in subsequent years without concurrently making drastic reductions in the number of points required for villas in VGF1 (given the size of VGF2 vs VGF1)? IOW, raising the 200 VGF2 studios by just 1 point per night would have to result in lowering each of the 47 VGF1 studios by 4-5 points per night.


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## Sandisw

Marionnette said:


> That sounds reasonable to me. But taking it a step further...don't all points for the expansion have to be declared in the POS before the sale of even one point takes place? So if all studios remain the same number of points in both VGF1 and VGF2 (with the exception of any new booking categories) in 2022, would it not follow suit then that DVC could not raise VGF2 points in subsequent years without concurrently making drastic reductions in the number of points required for villas in VGF1 (given the size of VGF2 vs VGF1)? IOW, raising the 200 VGF2 studios by just 1 point per night would have to result in lowering each of the 47 VGF1 studios by 4-5 points per night.



My thought is that they only need to declare the number of points they want for initial sales, like any other resort.

So, say the 200 rooms will create a total of 1 million points...made up number....and there are no new categories...they can declare 10% to start in 2022..20 rooms..

But just like new resorts, the points charts are based on total when sold out, so I think that’s why it won’t be a big deal since all points added come with the rooms.


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## davidl81

sethschroeder said:


> RIV - $215
> VGF - $255 list
> VGF - $245 @ 150 points (new blue card minimum)
> VGF - $235 @ 200 points ($20 more than RIV)
> 
> Point charts for studios will be more than they are today at VGF. Could be new addition is more or could mean all studios are more.


It’s going to be very hard to sell at those price points with a higher point requirement.  It makes it almost too close to rack rate rooms at the hotel side.  And to price it almost 20% more than another active resort is something that DVC has never done.  
I still think it will be close to RIV prices just with less incentives.  Maybe like $5 more in list price but not $40.


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## Marionnette

Sandisw said:


> My thought is that they only need to declare the number of points they want for initial sales, like any other resort.
> 
> So, say the 200 rooms will create a total of 1 million points...made up number....and there are no new categories...they can declare 10% to start in 2022..20 rooms..
> 
> But just like new resorts, the points charts are based on total when sold out, so I think that’s why it won’t be a big deal since all points added come with the rooms.


It's my understanding that points declared into the plan (i.e. total points for the resort) is different from units (and the total points that they represent) declared into the condo association for the purpose of sales and reservation inventory.

For instance, on page 2 of the VGF POS, the total number of points declared into the plan is 1,911,596 with the caveat that if accommodations are added to or subtracted from the condo association, the total number of Home Resort Points will be adjusted up or down accordingly.
https://disneyvacationclub.disney.g...ts/corecatalog/utah/UT_VGF_PropertyReport.pdf
So, it strikes me that from the moment that VGF2 is added to the VGF condo association, the total number of points that will be sold at VGF2 must be declared into the plan and added to the number of Home Resort Points in the plan. DVD can still control when and how many points/Vacation Homes are declared into use by DVC as is necessary for sales purposes.

Edited to add link to VGF POS.


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## Prince John Robin Hood

I'm hoping for the same point chart except for theme park view and club level.  Club level makes a ton of sense in my opinion and I think there would be strong demand for it.


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## Sandisw

Marionnette said:


> It's my understanding that points declared into the plan (i.e. total points for the resort) is different from units (and the total points that they represent) declared into the condo association for the purpose of sales and reservation inventory.
> 
> For instance, on page 2 of the VGF POS, the total number of points declared into the plan is 1,911,596 with the caveat that if accommodations are added to or subtracted from the condo association, the total number of Home Resort Points will be adjusted up or down accordingly.
> https://disneyvacationclub.disney.g...ts/corecatalog/utah/UT_VGF_PropertyReport.pdf
> So, it strikes me that from the moment that VGF2 is added to the VGF condo association, the total number of points that will be sold at VGF2 must be declared into the plan and added to the number of Home Resort Points in the plan. DVD can still control when and how many points/Vacation Homes are declared into use by DVC as is necessary for sales purposes.
> 
> Edited to add link to VGF POS.



It makes sense that would mean that the total has to be decided on first.  I wonder if there is info as to how it was done for the treehouses as that would probably give us an idea of how they plan to do it.

Given that the indeed to open them...at least some...next summer...means they have to be on a pretty tight timeline.


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## Paul Stupin

$235 per point with incentives. Riviera at $225. The prices will be close enough and the properties different enough that one won’t cannibalize the other.  Pure fantasy that it will be $201.

More small point contracts will be sold so the added cost won’t seem that bad to buyers.


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## cgodzyk

Prince John Robin Hood said:


> I'm hoping for the same point chart except for theme park view and club level.  Club level makes a ton of sense in my opinion and I think there would be strong demand for it.



Club level VGF is my dream!  That would be worth a $235 price point for us  We would add another 200-300 points (in 100 or 150 increment contracts) most definitely!


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## BWV Dreamin

Marionnette said:


> The point chart for 2022 for VGF1 is already out. Can DVC raise the number of points needed for studios in the original building before they have even started work next spring? I ask this because I see this idea being floated out there frequently and I'm curious, since current members are booking studios in the original building for 2022, how can DVC raise the number of points required for VGF1 studios for the inaugural year of VGF2? I'm specifically focusing on those dates which fall in August thru December when VGF2 will have opened but VGF1 owners will have already booked their stays starting in September 2021.


They could raise them for the months of June 2022 and after. I think it’s too late for May 2022.


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## RoseGold

Club level VGF makes a lot of sense to me, even if it’s only a few rooms.  They can crank up the overall points for the resort (like bungalows).  It’s not like some sodas and soup are that expensive.  I’ve only seen videos of the Jambo one, I thought it didn’t look that great, and I still wanted to give them my money to try it.

It’s an awesome selling tool now and beyond.  I’m surprised RIV didn’t add a handful of rooms with it.

I agree club level VGF is the dream, and I think it could be sold as such.


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## Marionnette

RoseGold said:


> Club level VGF makes a lot of sense to me, even if it’s only a few rooms.  They can crank up the overall points for the resort (like bungalows).  It’s not like some sodas and soup are that expensive.  I’ve only seen videos of the Jambo one, I thought it didn’t look that great, and I still wanted to give them my money to try it.
> 
> It’s an awesome selling tool now and beyond.  I’m surprised RIV didn’t add a handful of rooms with it.
> 
> I agree club level VGF is the dream, and I think it could be sold as such.


The Jambo club level DVC was created because the views from those rooms are not that great but they are located on the club floor. Club level guests who were paying a ton of money for their rooms were unhappy with those views. Pawning them off to DVC was a win for Disney. But I cannot imagine that DVC will create its own club level for a very limited number of rooms at VGF2.


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## RoseGold

Marionnette said:


> The Jambo club level DVC was created because the views from those rooms are not that great but they are located on the club floor. Club level guests who were paying a ton of money for their rooms were unhappy with those views. Pawning them off to DVC was a win for Disney. But I cannot imagine that DVC will create its own club level for a very limited number of rooms at VGF2.



I (used to) travel a lot and have status at two US chains.  Club level can vary a lot.  I don’t even consider Jambo in the top 50% of club level (though I’ve never been there).  There’s a lot of cheap solutions Disney could slap club level label on for a whole lot of points, which seems on brand for current DVC.


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## Marionnette

BWV Dreamin said:


> They could raise them for the months of June 2022 and after. I think it’s too late for May 2022.


I don't think that they can raise the total number of Home Resort Points at VGF without VGF2 being declared into the condo association. And without declaring those points into the condo association, the number of points per night at VGF1 cannot be increased for June thru December 2022.

SSR and the THVs is a good example of how DVC played fast and loose with point allocations. When the THVs were added to an almost sold out SSR, the points which were declared into the condo association in 2009 were the exact number of points needed to reserve all of the THVs for every night of the year. In 2013, DVC reallocated the points at SSR and increased the number of points needed to book THVs while decreasing the 2BR villas.

I would not be surprised if a similar reallocation of points occurs at VGF in 2023 (or later), but in a reverse fashion - overprice the 2022 points chart for VGF2 in order to add a significant number to the condo association and be able to sell more points. Then, "due to an imbalance in demand for (cheap) VGF1 studios", DVC would reallocate the points charts to increase VGF1 studios while lowering VGF2 studios to a more reasonable number.


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## Marionnette

RoseGold said:


> I (used to) travel a lot and have status at two US chains.  Club level can vary a lot.  I don’t even consider Jambo in the top 50% of club level (though I’ve never been there).  There’s a lot of cheap solutions Disney could slap club level label on for a whole lot of points, which seems on brand for current DVC.


I think that if club level at additional DVC resorts had been on their radar, RIV would have it. As it stands, club level at VGF would be an ongoing cost that would not be shared with the hotel side. Its maintenance would fall on VGF owners, whether they use the club lounge or not.

I don't see it happening.


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## RoseGold

Marionnette said:


> I think that if club level at additional DVC resorts had been on their radar, RIV would have it.



That was when the plan was to slap up another 900 rooms right on RIV’s tail.  That’s not happening.   Club level is a way to create some points and some cash right now.

I mean come on, 65 point club level theme park view studio!  Tell me you’re a bungalow without saying bungalow.


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## Marionnette

RoseGold said:


> That was when the plan was to slap up another 900 rooms right on RIV’s tail.  That’s not happening.   Club level is a way to create some points and some cash right now.
> 
> I mean come on, 65 point club level theme park view studio!  Tell me you’re a bungalow without saying bungalow.


Except bungalows go unreserved and end up being a continuing cash cow for DVC when they go for breakage. A club level studio is not likely to go unreserved and will not generate additional income like the bungalows do.


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## RoseGold

Depends on how many points it costs, I suppose.  More the better for Disney.


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## Sandisw

Marionnette said:


> I don't think that they can raise the total number of Home Resort Points at VGF without VGF2 being declared into the condo association. And without declaring those points into the condo association, the number of points per night at VGF1 cannot be increased for June thru December 2022.
> 
> SSR and the THVs is a good example of how DVC played fast and loose with point allocations. When the THVs were added to an almost sold out SSR, the points which were declared into the condo association in 2009 were the exact number of points needed to reserve all of the THVs for every night of the year. In 2013, DVC reallocated the points at SSR and increased the number of points needed to book THVs while decreasing the 2BR villas.
> 
> I would not be surprised if a similar reallocation of points occurs at VGF in 2023 (or later), but in a reverse fashion - overprice the 2022 points chart for VGF2 in order to add a significant number to the condo association and be able to sell more points. Then, "due to an imbalance in demand for (cheap) VGF1 studios", DVC would reallocate the points charts to increase VGF1 studios while lowering VGF2 studios to a more reasonable number.



What is interesting then is how they are going to open it for summer of 2022 without the declaration into the condo soon so that the point chart can be adjusted to account for those rooms?

That is why I think we will see SV and LV rooms priced at the same level of current VGF unless some of the rooms are considered TPV, like at BLT since I think I read some allow a view of MK?

Regardless, I do think that is why we will see initial pricing lower than the $255...even if it is short lived with incentives.


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## Marionnette

Sandisw said:


> What is interesting then is how they are going to open it for summer of 2022 without the declaration into the condo soon so that the point chart can be adjusted to account for those rooms?
> 
> That is why I think we will see SV and LV rooms priced at the same level of current VGF unless some of the rooms are considered TPV, like at BLT since I think I read some allow a view of MK?
> 
> Regardless, I do think that is why we will see initial pricing lower than the $255...even if it is short lived with incentives.


There are 28 rooms in Big Pine Key that Touringplans.com classifies as "theme park view". TBH, if I were a hotel guest who paid for a theme park view, I'd be pretty upset with what I could see from my balcony, especially from the 2 lower floors. It's a lovely view of CR and the lake but what you really see is the bus depot, not the castle nor Space Mountain.


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## M:SpilotISTC12

So there was a listing on one of the brokers for a small VGF contract. It was way over priced. I threw out a low ball offer of $201 thinking it wouldn't get accepted. The asking was in the $220s. The reason I put $201 was because that is what the current prices are for RIV. In the offer I put that reason in the offer notes.

Now I'm very on the fence to either buy VGF2 direct or buy more cheap points via resale to stay at VGF. My logic was VGF2 might not be priced below $201 (no incentives with small contract) so I might as well use what the price is now and throw a Hail Mary. The offer was accepted. I'm just wondering if my logic is crazy.  Should I go through with it or did I over offer?


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## Sandisw

M:SpilotISTC12 said:


> So there was a listing on one of the brokers for a small VGF contract. It was way over priced. I threw out a low ball offer of $201 thinking it wouldn't get accepted. The asking was in the $220s. The reason I put $201 was because that is what the current prices are for RIV. In the offer I put that reason in the offer notes.
> 
> Now I'm very on the fence to either buy VGF2 direct or buy more cheap points via resale to stay at VGF. My logic was VGF2 might not be priced below $201 (no incentives with small contract) so I might as well use what the price is now and throw a Hail Mary. The offer was accepted. I'm just wondering if my logic is crazy.  Should I go throw it or did I over offer?



If you want at that price keep.  I actually considered putting one in on that at $180 but wrong UY.   I think a little High if it was a larger contract but small, not bad!

But I am under contract for RIV at $152 which was about $10 more than I wanted to Pay,  but since it was I wanted, I couldn’t pass up!


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## Bjaiken77

M:SpilotISTC12 said:


> So there was a listing on one of the brokers for a small VGF contract. It was way over priced. I threw out a low ball offer of $201 thinking it wouldn't get accepted. The asking was in the $220s. The reason I put $201 was because that is what the current prices are for RIV. In the offer I put that reason in the offer notes.
> 
> Now I'm very on the fence to either buy VGF2 direct or buy more cheap points via resale to stay at VGF. My logic was VGF2 might not be priced below $201 (no incentives with small contract) so I might as well use what the price is now and throw a Hail Mary. The offer was accepted. I'm just wondering if my logic is crazy.  Should I go throw it or did I over offer?



Wow, that’s a question only you can answer. If your looking for my opinion, I’d say that the difference in price doesn’t make as big of a deal to me when the contract is small. Let’s say it’s 50 points. Even if DVC doesn’t lower the price at all, you are looking at a difference of $2,700. While I don’t want to minimize the value of money, and understand everyone is different, I feel like this is manageable when we are talking about purchases that usually start around $10K.

If you take the $2,700 as a worst case scenario on a 50 point contract (I don’t know the number but you said it was small), it likely will only improve from there.  In fact, it may improve dramatically if they offer VGF2 at a price in the $210-$215 range.  Only the future will tell. 

Of course, this assumes the price of VGF won’t increase from its current rate.  I don’t think it will, but you have to make that determination as part of your calculation.


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## M:SpilotISTC12

Sandisw said:


> But I am under contract for RIV at $152 which was about $10 more than I wanted to Pay, but since it was I wanted, I couldn’t pass up!


See I go for value as much as possible which is why I have a small SSR contract to get me 4 nights a year at SSR or OKW. My family loves the VGF but I couldn't justify the point chart and price per point. I much prefer the cheaper point charts.

But then this last trip happened where we had a great time visiting GF. My wife wanted to stay there often but because of the higher point chart we needed to buy more points. We were actually there when they announced the new addition coming. It was almost like a sign from above to get points there. :lol: Now since VGF isn't the most economical I want my purchase to at least be as economical as possible. Since the resale market is nuts right now I figured at least I won't be paying more than direct. And with it being a small contract I knew I wouldn't qualify for any direct incentives.


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## Bjaiken77

M:SpilotISTC12 said:


> See I go for value as much as possible which is why I have a small SSR contract to get me 4 nights a year at SSR or OKW. My family loves the VGF but I couldn't justify the point chart and price per point. I much prefer the cheaper point charts.
> 
> But then this last trip happened where we had a great time visiting GF. My wife wanted to stay there often but because of the higher point chart we needed to buy more points. We were actually there when they announced the new addition coming. It was almost like a sign from above to get points there. :lol: Now since VGF isn't the most economical I want my purchase to at least be as economical as possible. Since the resale market is nuts right now I figured at least I won't be paying more than direct. And with it being a small contract I knew I wouldn't qualify for any direct incentives.



If it’s just about the bottom line of price per point, then it’ll be hard to beat $201 in my opinion.  I also like how you reminded me to put in an offer and see what happens.  Worst they can tell you is no, and they may go for it.


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## dvc lover 1970

One thing to keep in mind, this is not a 50 year contract, it is almost a 40 year contract. VGF is a 2064 resort. By the time this resort goes on sale, we will be at 2022 or 2023, this brings us to almost 40 years. Price will be the same as RIV. Point chart will be the same as GF1, unless these studios have two bathrooms - which i doubt. The makeover will be cheap, cheap, it will basically be a hotel room.


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## BWV Dreamin

dvc lover 1970 said:


> One thing to keep in mind, this is not a 50 year contract, it is almost a 40 year contract. VGF is a 2064 resort. By the time this resort goes on sale, we will be at 2022 or 2023, this brings us to almost 40 years. Price will be the same as RIV. Point chart will be the same as GF1, unless these studios have two bathrooms - which i doubt. The makeover will be cheap, cheap, it will basically be a hotel room.


If so, is why I want to know I am booked in the VGF DVC building when I make my reservation. Until other details are revealed, I have no desire to stay in Pine Key ( is that the name?).


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## dvc lover 1970

BWV Dreamin said:


> If so, is why I want to know I am booked in the VGF DVC building when I make my reservation. Until other details are revealed, I have no desire to stay in Pine Key ( is that the name?).


I agree. I have no desire to stay in VGF2. I love VGF, and want to stay in the original, not the second. Disappointed they are doing another conversion into DVC.


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## davidl81

BWV Dreamin said:


> If so, is why I want to know I am booked in the VGF DVC building when I make my reservation. Until other details are revealed, I have no desire to stay in Pine Key ( is that the name?).


I mean I get what you are saying, but isn’t it a bit premature to declare you like the previous rooms to the new ones since none of us on here have any actual clue what the new ones will be like?  Lots of assumptions on the thread, but clearly no one here really knows right now.
Edit:  I see where you said until they give more details, so that is fair.


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## BWV Dreamin

davidl81 said:


> I mean I get what you are saying, but isn’t it a bit premature to declare you like the previous rooms to the new ones since none of us on here have any actual clue what the new ones will be like?  Lots of assumptions on the thread, but clearly no one here really knows right now.
> Edit:  I see where you said until they give more details, so that is fair.


I love VGF as it is. The addition of 200 studios leaves lots of questions unanswered. At this point based on what we do know ( larger studio units, building location) there is nothing driving me to stay in the new studios.


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## dvc lover 1970

I also wonder if selling 200 more studios will shift the balance and put pressure on the 2 bedrooms.


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## TroJo

I voted a little higher than RIV with same point chart.

Even if Disney drops the current VGF pricing I don’t think they’ll will have any issues selling RIV and AUL at the same time. They all have their benefits and drawbacks.

AUL typically has some decent incentives, and may continue to get better as more is offered.

RIV had a high perceived value as it will continue to give you points until 2070. Of course resale restrictions and high dues are a bummer.

VGF’s Victorian style and high end perception is a draw to some. But the high point chart and 2064 expiration might be easy to sway most guests who know little about DVC to buy elsewhere.


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## Yinn

I'm surprised one of the options isn't - Same price and points as VGF1 Direct.  

I guess  "A lot higher than Riviera ($26+ more), same point chart as VGF1" will do


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## RoseGold

In the new May report from the board sponsor, Poly and BLT are both in the 170s resale.  Disney has always held the spread.  I don’t see VGF pricing anywhere near RIV.  Prepare for sticker shock.


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## sethschroeder

RoseGold said:


> In the new May report from the board sponsor, Poly and BLT are both in the 170s resale.  Disney has always held the spread.  I don’t see VGF pricing anywhere near RIV.  Prepare for sticker shock.



If you check out the market site for DVC you have.

VGF Resale:
April Median $176
May Median $180

April Buyback $160
May Buyback $160

I can't imagine a $20 premium on VGF over its average resale price. Heck someone paid $220/point last month for VGF.


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## Cyberc1978

sethschroeder said:


> . Heck someone paid $220/point last month for VGF.


I assume that was before VGF2 was announced right?


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## sethschroeder

Cyberc1978 said:


> I assume that was before VGF2 was announced right?



I don't have dates just that it closed last month.


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## mustinjourney

I sincerely hope the point charts for the new "resort studio" rooms will be 1 or 2 points less per night than the current studios.  If they are they same or higher -- I have a bad feeling that the VGF1 studios will end up being preferred, which will end up putting even more pressure on getting those studios than before.  

The best way to alleviate the studio pressure at VGF1 is to make the new VGF2 studios more attractive to owners.  Otherwise, we're going to end up with a mess on our hands.


----------



## mustinjourney

Duckbug.Ducktales said:


> Did y'all see the Southwest Chase card offer for Jun 11? Spend $100, get 50,000 SW RR points!
> 
> I will still book my flights on Thursday but will need to figure out how to spend another $100 on Friday lol. Maybe cancel a flight and rebook if the price didn't change much.



can't you just buy a $100 SWA gift card (or amazon gift card)?


----------



## stwaldman

mustinjourney said:


> can't you just buy a $100 SWA gift card (or amazon gift card)?


the terms and conditions indicate it can be a GC if you google the promotion


----------



## DVCsloth

mustinjourney said:


> I sincerely hope the point charts for the new "resort studio" rooms will be 1 or 2 points less per night than the current studios.  If they are they same or higher -- I have a bad feeling that the VGF1 studios will end up being preferred, which will end up putting even more pressure on getting those studios than before.
> 
> The best way to alleviate the studio pressure at VGF1 is to make the new VGF2 studios more attractive to owners.  Otherwise, we're going to end up with a mess on our hands.


I agree, hoping this won't make the 1 BR harder to get as well. Sometimes I book Studios and sometimes 1BR. Kind of wish they would add 1&2 BR  at least. I would possibly like to add more points there. Hope they don't mess it up. And please bring back the Orchestra!


----------



## dvc lover 1970

I also hope they bring back the orchestra!! any chance of that happening??


----------



## hcortesis

mustinjourney said:


> I sincerely hope the point charts for the new "resort studio" rooms will be 1 or 2 points less per night than the current studios.  If they are they same or higher -- *I have a bad feeling that the VGF1 studios will end up being preferred*, which will end up putting even more pressure on getting those studios than before.
> 
> The best way to alleviate the studio pressure at VGF1 is to make the new VGF2 studios more attractive to owners.  Otherwise, we're going to end up with a mess on our hands.



I own at VGF.  I'm curious why you think that VGF1 will be preferred over 2.


----------



## stwaldman

hcortesis said:


> I own at VGF.  I'm curious why you think that VGF1 will be preferred over 2.


I'm assuming most of this sentiment is (beyond the lack of 1/2brs at vgf2, which duh that's an issue) 

1) vgf2 is unknown, and people who own VGF probably know what they love and are afraid to lose what they paid a pretty penny for if availability gets rough
2) the standard monorail view/proximity is quite nice and I think doesn't translate to the new building so much (I may be wrong, I've only stayed dvc)
3) the dvc building is a bit secluded off to the side, and has it's own nice lobby, which I think people are fond of and may not be recreated in big pine
4) the point allocation of vgf2 is unknown, and people bought contracts based on use/availability at vgf1

Just what I seem to be seeing, not even necessarily how I feel, I'm sure I forgot a good reason or two, but that's what seems to be the general concern. And yeah, there may be "upside" in other people's eyes on the same issues. Some people may like being 1000 feet closer to morning coffee, or having a pool/garden type view.


----------



## stwaldman

stwaldman said:


> I'm assuming most of this sentiment is (beyond the lack of 1/2brs at vgf2, which duh that's an issue)
> 
> 1) vgf2 is unknown, and people who own VGF probably know what they love and are afraid to lose what they paid a pretty penny for if availability gets rough
> 2) the standard monorail view/proximity is quite nice and I think doesn't translate to the new building so much (I may be wrong, I've only stayed dvc)
> 3) the dvc building is a bit secluded off to the side, and has it's own nice lobby, which I think people are fond of and may not be recreated in big pine
> 4) the point allocation of vgf2 is unknown, and people bought contracts based on use/availability at vgf1
> 
> Just what I seem to be seeing, not even necessarily how I feel, I'm sure I forgot a good reason or two, but that's what seems to be the general concern. And yeah, there may be "upside" in other people's eyes on the same issues. Some people may like being 1000 feet closer to morning coffee, or having a pool/garden type view.


I guess one other note I forgot is since VGF is all lockoffs, more people vying for the bigger units will also screwup the allocation of people that used to reserve studios in the original building, so yeah there's also a math issue that will impact demand  

I should also note, we have no clue how new owners will feel, as many of the new owners will be new buyers who never stayed dvc side. And some will buy fixed week contracts that will get tied to big pine rooms. So there are a lot of unknowns in whether or not demand will shift between one building or the other.


----------



## Nabas

hcortesis said:


> I own at VGF.  I'm curious why you think that VGF1 will be preferred over 2.


There’s also been theories that VGF2 Studios will be more points than VGF1 Studios because VGF2 Studios are larger.

Historically, the lower points-per-night Studios are the hardest to book.

You might end up with a scenario where a lot of VGF2 buyers end up trying to book Studios at VGF1


----------



## stwaldman

Nabas said:


> There’s also been theories that VGF2 Studios will be more points than VGF1 Studios because VGF2 Studios are larger.
> 
> Historically, the lower points-per-night Studios are the hardest to book.
> 
> You might end up with a scenario where a lot of VGF2 buyers end up trying to book Studios at VGF1


This is the only one I take a little issue with, because I feel like the point difference won't be all that much, keeping in mind that VGF studios already have a tough point chart that even exceeds Riviera, and will have to be justified by them presumably having enough extra sqft that it's at least noticeable and possibly making room for the well received Murphy beds. I may be wrong, maybe they'll go for 40 pts a night at Christmas and spring break, but I feel a bit like how much higher can they really go...


----------



## stwaldman

stwaldman said:


> This is the only one I take a little issue with, because I feel like the point difference won't be all that much, keeping in mind that VGF studios already have a tough point chart that even exceeds Riviera, and will have to be justified by them presumably having enough extra sqft that it's at least noticeable and possibly making room for the well received Murphy beds. I may be wrong, maybe they'll go for 40 pts a night at Christmas and spring break, but I feel a bit like how much higher can they really go...


All that said, yeah, if there is even a one point difference the lower ones will sell first


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## hcortesis

Ya, all these reasons have merit.  I'm looking forward to the the new studios because we always book lake views and it appears VGF2 will have sun from sunrise to sunset.


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## DVCsloth

Hopefully the point chart is the same or slightly lower. Also would prefer that it was not all studios but they must have researched it. I am interested in adding on though.


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## poofyo101

should just be the same. keep it easy


----------



## emmymac17

so...who's buying/what is your price limit? I own direct points at Riviera and would love a small direct contract (50-60) for a small studio trip at GFV during the fall timeframe every other year. At the size we are looking at, PPP isn't hugely impactful, but I don't think I'd buy if it opens at the current direct price


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## Nabas

The more I read, the more it makes sense for VGF2 to open at the same price as Riviera and Aulani.


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## ScarSimone

JETSDAD said:


> I'm going with slightly more expensive (I think within $5-10/pt) and a higher chart on those studios than the current studios.


Can they do that without creating a different room category?  If it is part of the existing association and its a lake view studio, doesnt it have to be the same points?


----------



## Nabas

ScarSimone said:


> Can they do that without creating a different room category?  If it is part of the existing association and its a lake view studio, doesnt it have to be the same points?


Since VGF2 represents new points, I believe they can create whatever room categories they want.

Still, making VGF2 more points per night is going to cause headaches for existing VGF1 members.  IMO, VGF1 members will really be screwed over if VGF2 rooms are more points per night.


----------



## davidl81

ScarSimone said:


> Can they do that without creating a different room category?  If it is part of the existing association and its a lake view studio, doesnt it have to be the same points?


They would just have to create a different room category.  Really that would be simple to create, it just depends if they want to do it or not.  But yeah, if they just call it a lake view studio it would have the same point requirements as the VGF1 studios do.


----------



## davidl81

Nabas said:


> The more I read, the more it makes sense for VGF2 to open at the same price as Riviera and Aulani.


I am in the same mind frame as you on this.  I think they will increase RIV base pricing but also increase RIV incentives.  VGF will open at the same base price as RIV, but with a different incentive setup.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

ScarSimone said:


> Can they do that without creating a different room category?  If it is part of the existing association and its a lake view studio, doesnt it have to be the same points?



Yes it likely would be but many are looking at the different name of the accommodation and short build out time as a sign that it will be a different type of room and different category.  Just have to wait and see.  It is easier for DVC to keep things consistent.


----------



## Nabas

davidl81 said:


> I am in the same mind frame as you on this.  I think they will increase RIV base pricing but also increase RIV incentives.  VGF will open at the same base price as RIV, but with a different incentive setup.


My guess is VGF2, RIV, AUL will all be around $210 to $220 early next year, although each will have different incentives.


----------



## ScarSimone

KAT4DISNEY said:


> Yes it likely would be but many are looking at the different name of the accommodation and short build out time as a sign that it will be a different type of room and different category.  Just have to wait and see.  It is easier for DVC to keep things consistent.


Got it and that is what I thought.  If DVC created a new room category for a new studio type that was more points that the ones at the existing VGF, and by default INCREASED demand on that small number of studios (at the current building) that would be a big ******* from DVC to the existing VGF owners.


----------



## sethschroeder

davidl81 said:


> They would just have to create a different room category.  Really that would be simple to create, it just depends if they want to do it or not.  But yeah, if they just call it a lake view studio it would have the same point requirements as the VGF1 studios do.



Is overlooking the pool a "standard" view? I think this points to at least a creation of a Pool View and Lake View being used at the new building. They can then set that Pool View how they would like for points possibly being closer to Lake View than it is Standard View.

You also are going to have rooms in the new building with likely a better view of MK than the old building as well.

I will be surprised if long term people prefer the old building more except for possibly having cheaper rooms. The question is if the new building is a big enough draw to outweigh the point difference (similar to Boardwalk View vs Garden/Pool vs Standard).

From New Building


From Old Building (all the rooms in this picture at the end of the building are Grand Villas if I am not mistaken so not Studios)


----------



## ScarSimone

sethschroeder said:


> Is overlooking the pool a "standard" view? I think this points to at least a creation of a Pool View and Lake View being used at the new building. They can then set that Pool View how they would like for points possibly being closer to Lake View than it is Standard View.


Excellent point....might cause a lot of current VGF owners that rely on studios to be doing some add ons!
They could possibly create a 'theme park view" but that might be a stretch.  However, there are not many rooms that could be a "pool view" with the current location of the pool bar, and least, not legitimately, but Pig Pine Key is going to produce a lot of lake view studios, putting more strain on the supply of standard view,  Guess I better budget for an add on after all.


----------



## Lorana

emmymac17 said:


> so...who's buying/what is your price limit? I own direct points at Riviera and would love a small direct contract (50-60) for a small studio trip at GFV during the fall timeframe every other year. At the size we are looking at, PPP isn't hugely impactful, but I don't think I'd buy if it opens at the current direct price


If they are below $200 per point, I’d seriously consider adding on, even though VGF is not high on my list as a home resort.

if they are the same as RIV, I just might, especially if incentives stacked with RIV. Though if the incentives stacked with new incentives for CCV (where I DO want to add more points), I think I’m in at that point.


----------



## Sandisw

davidl81 said:


> They would just have to create a different room category.  Really that would be simple to create, it just depends if they want to do it or not.  But yeah, if they just call it a lake view studio it would have the same point requirements as the VGF1 studios do.



Thinking about it now, I wonder if this is why they called them a “resort” studio and not deluxe?

It simply allows them to price them at a different level as it would be a new category…so the resort studio is in Big Pine Key and the deluxe studio is in the original building..they could even still have different views as well Essentially setting up a total of 4 categories for studios at the entire resort. 

Great way to keep in the same association but up the points since the rooms are bigger.


----------



## davidl81

emmymac17 said:


> so...who's buying/what is your price limit? I own direct points at Riviera and would love a small direct contract (50-60) for a small studio trip at GFV during the fall timeframe every other year. At the size we are looking at, PPP isn't hugely impactful, but I don't think I'd buy if it opens at the current direct price


I will buy 200 points if they are around $200pp after incentives.  I plan on selling my fairly recently purchased 175 point SSR contract and using that money towards the VGF points.  Wife and I like the different Run Disney events so a studio for the two of us at VFG works out great.  Then of course we take big family trips and we can do split stays in 1BR, or whatever we decide.  My other thought is I feel really good about VGF points going up in value over the long term so I have flexibility moving forward after VGF2 sells out.   If I buy it will be during the presale because that will be the very best price that direct will offer.


----------



## Nabas

sethschroeder said:


> Is overlooking the pool a "standard" view? I think this points to at least a creation of a Pool View and Lake View being used at the new building. They can then set that Pool View how they would like for points possibly being closer to Lake View than it is Standard View.


At AKV-Jambo, BCV, CCV, and BRV, overlooking the pool is the standard view.

At BWV and AKV-Kidani, a Standard View typically means you're looking at a parking lot.  Same with RIV, I think.

At SSR, aren't Preferred rooms are more about location, less about view?

As I remember, there are only a handful of rooms at Big Pine Key that have a decent view of the courtyard pool.  On that side of the building, most look onto the back of the pool bar or at another building.  Something like this:


----------



## Nabas

Lorana said:


> If they are below $200 per point, I’d seriously consider adding on, even though VGF is not high on my list as a home resort.


I was going to buy VGF resale, but if VGF2 comes in at about $210-$220 per point (where I think RIV & AUL will be next year), I'm buying direct.

But if VGF2 comes in higher than that, I'm sticking with resale.

Why the heck would someone buy VGF at (for example) $300pp when they can buy, for example, the Poly at $250pp?  Heck, they can buy CCV at $225pp.

Disney needs to sell 100,000 VGF points per month.  I just don't see them being close to that volume at $225pp or higher.  I really do think $220pp is the limit for early 2022.

It seems unlikely Disney pulled VGF direct at $255pp because they plan to sell VGF2 for more.  They were only selling about 2100 points per month at $255pp.  Instead, I believe that once VGF2 was announced, Disney did not want to create a bunch of angry buyers who purchased at $255pp, only to have Disney come in later and sell for $35-$45pp less.

Disney was quick to pull VGF1 from direct sales once they made the VGF2 announcement.  There's a reason for it.


----------



## Nabas

Another thing to consider.

Disney can quickly increase the direct VGF2 price if the first month of sales is stronger than expected, but they absolutely do not want to drop the price if sales are weak.

That precedent would only discourage future DVC buyers. (“Did you know Disney dropped prices before?”)

No, Disney needs to start VGF2 at a price where sales are strong, and then work their way up from there.

It’s easy to increase price if early sales are strong.  It’s a disaster if early sales are weak.

Note that this does not mean VGF2 will have the same incentives as RIV or AUL, only that their base prices will start off as the same.


----------



## emmymac17

Nabas said:


> Disney needs to sell 100,000 VGF points per month. I just don't see them being close to that volume at $225pp or higher. I really do think $220pp is the limit for early 2022.



Agree...margin for them on the renovation vs. having to sell after buying back via ROFR is night and day. Don't see how they don't lower the price direct with so many new points to sell


----------



## Sandisw

Nabas said:


> Another thing to consider.
> 
> Disney can quickly increase the direct VGF2 price if the first month of sales is stronger than expected, but they absolutely do not want to drop the price if sales are weak.
> 
> That precedent would only discourage future DVC buyers. (“Did you know Disney dropped prices before?”)
> 
> No, Disney needs to start VGF2 at a price where sales are strong, and then work their way up from there.
> 
> It’s easy to increase price if early sales are strong.  It’s a disaster if early sales are weak.
> 
> Note that this does not mean VGF2 will have the same incentives as RIV or AUL, only that their base prices will start off as the same.



I can see that as a good strategy to the buyer.  For example, RIV, AUL and. VGF all cost $220 but incentives will get you RIV for$195, AUL for $190.


----------



## Nabas

Sandisw said:


> I can see that as a good strategy to the buyer.  For example, RIV, AUL and. VGF all cost $220 but incentives will get you RIV for$195, AUL for $190.


That’s what I’m thinking - same base price but different incentives.

So then VGF2’s opening price becomes a matter of where RIV and AUL base prices are when VGF2 is first offered for sale.

VGF2 might start with no incentives, making it effectively more than RIV and AUL, even if their base prices are all the same.


----------



## Nutbean

emmymac17 said:


> so...who's buying/what is your price limit? I own direct points at Riviera and would love a small direct contract (50-60) for a small studio trip at GFV during the fall timeframe every other year. At the size we are looking at, PPP isn't hugely impactful, but I don't think I'd buy if it opens at the current direct price



My goal is to buy 100 sleep around points resale (currently have an offer for Copper Creek in with Disney for ROFR) and then 150 points direct for the blue card. VGF is my first choice for direct so hopefully we can get them with VGF2 at around $200/point. I'm not sure I'd buy over Riviera if the price difference is quite substantial though even with Riviera's resale restrictions.


----------



## davidl81

Nabas said:


> That’s what I’m thinking - same base price but different incentives.
> 
> So then VGF2’s opening price becomes a matter of where RIV and AUL base prices are when VGF2 is first offered for sale.
> 
> VGF2 might start with no incentives, making it effectively more than RIV and AUL, even if their base prices are all the same.


VGF2 will have some incentives when it opens as they always want to encourage larger point purchases.  Those incentives may be less than RIV, but they will have something.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

I hate to be a Debbie downer, but I am not seeing this kind of pricing. Inflation is not going away. People are spending at record rates. Prices for goods ( have you priced wood lately) are off the charts. The cost for Disney to rehab these units will be EXPENSIVE! 
No way is Disney going to price these points anywhere near RIV pricing. I see opening prices AT LEAST near $255/pt. or higher, with incentives starting at 150 points.  Maybe a $2-$3 discount.


----------



## princesscinderella

davidl81 said:


> VGF2 will have some incentives when it opens as they always want to encourage larger point purchases.  Those incentives may be less than RIV, but they will have something.


When VGF originally opened for members to buy in there was no incentives at all.  I paid $145 per point for 150 points.  I’m not sure if they ever offered incentives for VGF.


----------



## Prince John Robin Hood

The more I think about pricing, the more I think that this will be $250+ after incentives.  If it's $225 or less I'm going to add more points as long as the points chart is the same/similar as now.


----------



## Sandisw

BWV Dreamin said:


> I hate to be a Debbie downer, but I am not seeing this kind of pricing. Inflation is not going away. People are spending at record rates. Prices for goods ( have you priced wood lately) are off the charts. The cost for Disney to rehab these units will be EXPENSIVE!
> No way is Disney going to price these points anywhere near RIV pricing. I see opening prices AT LEAST near $255/pt. or higher, with incentives starting at 150 points.  Maybe a $2-$3 discount.



I guess that is why this is so fun because some of us will be on target and some will be way off base.  Young, new buyers who know very little about DVC are going to be hard to convince to pay an extra $7K to $8K more when the marketing will most certainly be that both resorts are worth it (and the more expensive one ends 6 years earlier).  DVD won't care which way they go..but if the difference is too wide, RIV will win and then VGF will sit there longer than maybe they want it to. 

Too bad we have to probably wait for a good 6 months to know!!!!! lol


----------



## JETSDAD

ScarSimone said:


> Can they do that without creating a different room category?  If it is part of the existing association and its a lake view studio, doesnt it have to be the same points?


The wording in the announcement seemed a bit strange in that they called it a resort studio rather than deluxe studio.  That alone could make them be a different category even if the views are the same. Kind of like Value Studios vs Deluxe studios at AKV and the Hotel Rooms vs Studios at Aulani. All guesses of course.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

Sandisw said:


> DVD won't care which way they go..but if the difference is too wide, RIV will win and then VGF will sit there longer than maybe they want it to.
> 
> Too bad we have to probably wait for a good 6 months to know!!!!! lol


Which may not be a bad sales tactic. Yes, with 6 more months of this debate, who knows what the price might end up being….LOL


----------



## dvc lover 1970

Will be interesting to see. I think their price will be 285 and incentives will be offered based on sales to bring cost down. I will not buy st that price point.


----------



## Nabas

A few have written that VGF2 will start at $255pp or higher.

Who on this forum is ready to say that they will be a buyer at $255pp or higher?


----------



## Lorana

Nabas said:


> A few have written that VGF2 will start at $255pp or higher.
> 
> Who on this forum is ready to say that they will be a buyer at $255pp or higher?


Ha!  Not it.  At least not for VGF2.
Build Reflections, and you have a taker here...  ;-)


----------



## Jelly563

It is so interesting to see people who think Disney is into LOWERING their prices.... (especially on their flagship resort !)  I wonder if they think Disney will offer annual passes for less than what they were selling them before too.  $275 will be the opening price for VGF2, $255 with incentives. BWV dreaming & dvc lover 1970 have it right


----------



## Nabas

Jelly563 said:


> It is so interesting to see people who think Disney is into LOWERING their prices.... (especially on their flagship resort !)  I wonder if they think Disney will offer annual passes for less than what they were selling them before too.  $275 will be the opening price for VGF2, $255 with incentives. BWV dreaming & dvc lover 1970 have it right


Does this mean you are planning to buy at $275pp?


----------



## Sandisw

Jelly563 said:


> It is so interesting to see people who think Disney is into LOWERING their prices.... (especially on their flagship resort !)  I wonder if they think Disney will offer annual passes for less than what they were selling them before too.  $275 will be the opening price for VGF2, $255 with incentives. BWV dreaming & dvc lover 1970 have it right



Except they have shown in the past to have a new resort start lower than what they were selling.

IIRC it happened with the treehouses when they were added to SSR. The opening price was a reduction.

So this concept of adding to a sold out resort hasn’t happened except once. That $255 and all of the higher sold out resort prices are there to get people to choose an active selling resort

Now you will have RIV and VGF competing abs RIV won’t be close to selling out when this goes on sale. Studios only make It are harder sell since the original building is small and 1 and 2 bedrooms are not plenty  

That doesn’t mean they won’t keep it the same but then why pull from sales now??


----------



## poofyo101

wasn't it taking VGF a long time to sell sold out points at the current price? IF thats the case it should be lower.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

poofyo101 said:


> wasn't it taking VGF a long time to sell sold out points at the current price? IF thats the case it should be lower.


There were not many points to sell. Disney actively ROFR’d points if they had someone on the waitlist. Then they closed the waitlist.


----------



## poofyo101

BWV Dreamin said:


> There were not many points to sell. Disney actively ROFR’d points if they had someone on the waitlist. Then they closed the waitlist.


Disney could have got them selves more points to sell if they were thought it was worthwhile to do it. Just my guess


----------



## davidl81

Jelly563 said:


> It is so interesting to see people who think Disney is into LOWERING their prices.... (especially on their flagship resort !)  I wonder if they think Disney will offer annual passes for less than what they were selling them before too.  $275 will be the opening price for VGF2, $255 with incentives. BWV dreaming & dvc lover 1970 have it right


I mean they are having tons of trouble selling RIV right now at $201 a point with a fairly aggressive incentives based on larger point purchases.  The idea that in 6 months they are going to raise direct prices 37% for VGF is absolute insanity.  It would be different if RIV was close to selling out with record sales etc, but that’s not at all the case.


----------



## Jelly563

I'm looking to unload some VGF points.  If VGF2 opens at $275, my resale at $180pp will look juicy. If they open at $210, I won't be able to sell my VGF at what I got them for.  The reason RIV isn't selling is because of the resale restrictions


----------



## davidl81

Nabas said:


> Does this mean you are planning to buy at $275pp?


Prices at $275-$285 a point as others have suggested would highly likely prove shall we say difficult to sell.  The only reason it was selling in small amounts at $255 a point is that was people with current contracts who wanted to add on mostly small amounts to get a few more days a year etc.  On smaller contracts the $pp is less evident.  But is DVC is trying to sell 100k points a month they will not be able to do it at those higher prices at this time IMO.


----------



## davidl81

Jelly563 said:


> I'm looking to unload some VGF points.  If VGF2 opens at $275, my resale at $180pp will look juicy. If they open at $210, I won't be able to sell my VGF at what I got them for.  The reason RIV isn't selling is because of the resale restrictions


You are making the assumption that most new DVC buyers are even familiar with resale, much less how resale restrictions may hurt the future value of their contract.  Think how many timeshares are sold direct around the world where those same timeshares can be had for free (or pennies on the new dollar)on the resale market, yet those direct sale still happen.
People in these boards may have reservations on RIV because of the restrictions (yet there are a lot who have bought direct regardless), but in the DVC tour the restrictions are not even mentioned.  I think overall RIV’s struggle come down to cost and points needed per night.  I think someone did the math and a 150 point RIV contract financed through Disney (which is the majority of their sales) is around $550 a month for 10 years when factoring in annual dues.  So about $6500 a year.  Most people think about that dollar amount and think they are not really saving any money buying DVC.  Sure they own it in 10 years, but 10 years is a long time.


----------



## emmymac17

davidl81 said:


> But is DVC is trying to sell 100k points a month they will not be able to do it at those higher prices at this time IMO.



Exactly this! They are moving a small amount monthly right now at $255pp, but this expansion may almost double the number of points at GFV, Disney will want to move them and it will be hard to do volume at $285pp when there are options like Riviera and Aulani which will be presumably significantly less


----------



## Paul Stupin

Jelly563 said:


> I'm looking to unload some VGF points.  If VGF2 opens at $275, my resale at $180pp will look juicy. If they open at $210, I won't be able to sell my VGF at what I got them for.  The reason RIV isn't selling is because of the resale restrictions


It will open at less than $210, with incentives, but resale availability will still be limited, so you might not get 180 but probably not too much less. And long term the price will still go up.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

davidl81 said:


> I mean they are having tons of trouble selling RIV right now at $201 a point with a fairly aggressive incentives based on larger point purchases.  The idea that in 6 months they are going to raise direct prices 37% for VGF is absolute insanity.  It would be different if RIV was close to selling out with record sales etc, but that’s not at all the case.


The problem with RIV may not be the pricing but restrictions.


----------



## Marionnette

davidl81 said:


> I mean they are having tons of trouble selling RIV right now at $201 a point with a fairly aggressive incentives based on larger point purchases.  The idea that in 6 months they are going to raise direct prices 37% for VGF is absolute insanity.  It would be different if RIV was close to selling out with record sales etc, but that’s not at all the case.


But are they having tons of trouble selling RIV? There are those who would argue that the data suggests that RIV is selling as expected.

OTOH, I cannot foresee DVC dropping their base price for VGF. If direct was selling at $255 before the announcement then I would expect it to be priced similarly when sales begin anew. However, I also expect incentives to bring that down somewhat to the point where the RIV - VGF differential is not that great. And I expect to see one, maybe 2, RIV price hikes between now and when VGF2 goes on sale, which will make that $255 price tag a little more plausible.


----------



## KTownRaider

davidl81 said:


> But is DVC is trying to sell 100k points a month they will not be able to do it at those higher prices at this time IMO


I think this is true for new resorts (RIV) when your trying to clear 6M pts and and anticipate 3-5 years to clear.  VGF2 is not a new resort- its joining an recognized brand, and its adding a comparatively small lot of 1.5-1.75M new points that won't carry the resale restriction burden.    Does Disney really want to have VGF2 sold out in 15-17months (100k pts/month)?  Sure- I could see that as most people here have acknowledged the cheap conversion/money grab nature of this move.   This would imply a cheaper price point which frankly, I hope is true.  I'm in the middle of a small contract VGF resale and would definitely look to add on some well priced, unrestricted points.  

Depending on how they position VGF2/RIV, I could also see them wanting the VGF2 sale cycle last a little longer to drive overall DVC buyer traffic, and therein help RIV which will inevitably take longer to sell.   That would imply a higher price point.  Riviera is a gorgeous, first class resort, but outside of these boards/ people who really follow WDW, it just doesn't get the exposure and recognition that it should with the casual park vacationer who never rides the skyliner.   A longer VGF2 sales cycle could help with that and thus potentially improve DVC's overall bottom line.

Love the respectful, thought provoking discussion here.  Just sucks that we probably have another 6 months before this debate is settled!!


----------



## drusba

VGF is currently at $255 a point through DVD. Because the new studios will be part of the original VGF Resort, the price per point will be the same as the price for VGF generally. But DVD has two ways of effectively raising prices for the new rooms before they go on sale:

1.  It can make the new rooms need higher points per night than the current studios. DVD needs a valid justification for doing that, but that appears to be a real possibility, e.g., the hotel rooms being converted are about 440 sq ft compared to the current stuios at 374 sq ft, i.e., square footage of a room is an important factor that goes into determining level of actual ownership interest and the nightly point price differences of the rooms at the DVC resorts.

2.  DVD can raise the price per point for VGF, and possibly other resorts, overall. Currently VGF is $255 per point. We are probably at least a year away, probably longer, before the points for the new rooms are offered for sale. DVD, price-wise, considers VGF its premier WDW DVC resort. For those who were around for the approximately two-year before VGF first went on sale in 2013, you may remember the numerous price increases of other resorts that occurred between late 2011 and early 2013 during that time so that VGF could be offered at a high price, e.g., BLT point price in that period increased overall close to 40%, from $120 to $165 per point, and that was during a time when the economy was still in the tank and DVD sales were down as a result of the Great Recession. An interesting factor of those increases in the period before VGF first went on sale is that those increases for BLT, that totaled about 40%, were all done after BLT was essentially sold-out, i.e., they were increases obviously manufactured so VGF could be priced very high and new purchasers would not realize that it was excessively priced.

Thus, I am guessing there is going be two or possibly three price increases before the new studios at VGF go on sale. I doubt DVD will attempt to raise them at the same percentage level it did before VGF first went on sale, but I suspect you could see a $295 per point price before sales begin, maybe somewhat less if DVD also does 1 above and makes the points needed per night higher than the current studios.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

Just for a little history - quotes from November 2012 when VGF was announced but had not gone on sale yet and no pricing nor point charts had been released.  These were from loooonggg time DISboard members and also long time DVC owners:

_"I've always said the only thing that would make me want to sell my BWV is GF. But not at the rumored price of $200 a point."  
_
Yes - back in 2012 many were convinced that VGF was finally going to be the one that DVC priced at $200/pt as it's the "flagship" resort.

_"GFV will be somewhere around $160 a point give or take with price increases and specials"_

VGF started sales 7 months later for $145/pt to current members.  A little over a month later it went on sale to everyone at $150/pt.  At the time the main marketed resorts - BLT and AKV - had a base price of $160/pt and $130/pt respectively.    The wild guesses did not come to fruition and even the guesses of it being priced the same as the highest priced current didn't either - it was priced lower to kick off sales.  There's little worse to a business to have their new product stutter out of the gate.  They want to be able to hype up what a hit it is.  Then they can go to work on raising prices if they feel they can get it.  It's not to say that DVD always jumps in with both feet on marketing the new resort although that has almost always been the case.  However when CCV went on sale they continued with PVB as the main focus.  It made a lot of people decide CCV was a bust but then the sales focus changed, PVB "sold out" and CCV took the lead in sales. 

And do not forget that even at the same or slightly lower price/pt DVC still would make more as VGF has the highest price chart.  This isn't just an apples to apples comparison.  They sell someone points to stay a week in a studio at VGF vs RIV they're getting 5%, 7% even 14% more in that sale of a week long stay.  And VGF will be all studios of some form which for square footage requires more points than including 2BR's which uses tripled the square footage but does not demand triple the points.  Plus DVC has done it's work to get the higher minimum established so new buyers will be required to purchase 150 pts or more initially which will align pretty well with VGF studio point charts.  DVD can price it the same as Riviera and if they sell the week long studio stay at each of the resorts they'll still have a larger sale to VGF buyers.


----------



## ScarSimone

drusba said:


> VGF is currently at $255 a point through DVD. Because the new studios will be part of the original VGF Resort, the price per point will be the same as the price for VGF generally. But DVD has two ways of effectively raising prices for the new rooms before they go on sale:
> 
> 1.  It can make the new rooms need higher points per night than the current studios. DVD needs a valid justification for doing that, but that appears to be a real possibility, e.g., the hotel rooms being converted are about 440 sq ft compared to the current stuios at 374 sq ft, i.e., square footage of a room is an important factor that goes into determining level of actual ownership interest and the price differences of the rooms at the DVC resorts.



Spot on.  Number 1 is what scares me some for lack of a better word.  I think its the way they will go - "resort studio", "pool view" "theme park view" etc, etc, and that is going to strain the studios in the existing building more.  I think a good portion of "old" vgf owners may end up buying small add ons, because they are having even more trouble getting the old "stardard view" rooms they had been getting in the past.

It will be interesting to see sales data when its available, but my guess is the average number of points purchased will be lower because this is going to cause a lot more 25 point add ons than normal.


----------



## Sandisw

Jelly563 said:


> I'm looking to unload some VGF points.  If VGF2 opens at $275, my resale at $180pp will look juicy. If they open at $210, I won't be able to sell my VGF at what I got them for.  The reason RIV isn't selling is because of the resale restrictions



RIV is selling at an acceptable level and the resale restrictions do not seem to be a big deterrent for new buyers.

Where it is falling short is current owners not adding on at a similar rate as previous resorts.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

drusba said:


> VGF is currently at $255 a point through DVD. Because the new studios will be part of the original VGF Resort, the price per point will be the same as the price for VGF generally. But DVD has two ways of effectively raising prices for the new rooms before they go on sale:
> 
> 1.  It can make the new rooms need higher points per night than the current studios. DVD needs a valid justification for doing that, but that appears to be a real possibility, e.g., the hotel rooms being converted are about 440 sq ft compared to the current stuios at 374 sq ft, i.e., square footage of a room is an important factor that goes into determining level of actual ownership interest and the price differences of the rooms at the DVC resorts.
> 
> 2.  DVD can raise the price per point for VGF, and possibly other resorts, overall. Currently VGF is $255 per point. We are probably at least a year away, probably longer, before the points for the new rooms are offered for sale. DVD, price-wise, considers VGF its premier WDW DVC resort. For those who were around for the approximately two-year before VGF first went on sale in 2013, you may remember the numerous price increases of other resorts that occurred between late 2011 and early 2013 during that time so that VGF could be offered at a high price, e.g., BLT point price in that period increased overall close to 40%, from $120 to $165 per point, and that was during a time when the economy was still in the tank and DVD sales were down as a result of the Great Recession. An interesting factor of those increases in the period before VGF first went on sale is that those increases for BLT, that totaled about 40%, were all done after BLT was essentially sold-out, i.e., they were increases obviously manufactured so VGF could be priced very high and new purchasers would not realize that it was excessively priced.
> 
> Thus, I am guessing there is going be two or possibly three price increases before the new studios at VGF go on sale. I doubt DVD will attempt to raise them at the same percentage level it did before VGF first went on sale, but I suspect you could see a $295 per point price before sales begin, maybe somewhat less if DVD also does 1 above and makes the points needed per night higher than the current studios.



I see a lot of the same work having gone into the higher minimum requirements and it may not be so much on the price/pt side this time.  I do expect a price increase or two between now and when sales start but I don't know that it will be at the same level that was done leading into the launching of VGF.   Back then they were dropping the minimum point requirements almost with each purchase.  This time they've got it back up to levels not seen since AKV was the focus.


----------



## Sandisw

KAT4DISNEY said:


> I see a lot of the same work having gone into the higher minimum requirements and it may not be so much on the price/pt side this time.  I do expect a price increase or two between now and when sales start but I don't know that it will be at the same level that was done leading into the launching of VGF.   Back then they were dropping the minimum point requirements almost with each purchase.  This time they've got it back up to levels not seen since AKV was the focus.



To add, 150 at $225 gives them more than selling it at $255 with the previous 125 minimum.

So I agree the strategy could play out that raising minimum purchase allows some drop in price to
be closer to RIV to make it appear competitive.

And we could very well see it 175 before that goes on sale which allows them to start lower too!


----------



## davidl81

Marionnette said:


> But are they having tons of trouble selling RIV? There are those who would argue that the data suggests that RIV is selling as expected.


RIV sold 61k points in May which is horrible for DVC active sales, but let’s give it an exception because of COVID.  But what’s more worrying is that RIV only made up about  40% of direct DVC sales which is historically poor compared to the 75-80% average.  SSR was talking a bunch of direct sales and I’m sure that is what caused the SSR price increase more than anything else.  They want RIV sales to increase.


----------



## ScarSimone

davidl81 said:


> RIV sold 61k points in May which is horrible for DVC active sales, but let’s give it an exception because of COVID.  But what’s more worrying is that RIV only made up about  40% of direct DVC sales which is historically poor compared to the 75-80% average.  SSR was talking a bunch of direct sales and I’m sure that is what caused the SSR price increase more than anything else.  They want RIV sales to increase.


They sold almost 89K RR points in April and 72K in March.  May was a steep drop,  Maybe it was just an off month, but it does raise a bit of an eyebrow.


----------



## davidl81

ScarSimone said:


> They sold almost 89K RR points in April and 72K in March.  May was a steep drop,  Maybe it was just an off month, but it does raise a bit of an eyebrow.


May also had an increase in price of $6pp (technically a reduction in the incentives).  IDK if that’s enough to move the needle, and we do need to see more months of data to make a conclusion, but with the rebound we are seeing in the economy (and the increase of people at WDW) RIV sales dropping over the last two months is the opposite of what I’m sure DVC would have expected.


----------



## Nabas

Here are the average number of points sold during the first 12 months at the most recent DVC additions:

VGF (opened in 2013): 108,000 points per month
PVB (opened in 2015): 79,400 points per month
CCV (opened in 2017): 78,300 points per month
RIV (opened in 2019): 114,400 points per month

Based on this, I don't think RIV restrictions had an impact on direct sales.


----------



## Paul Stupin

KAT4DISNEY said:


> Just for a little history - quotes from November 2012 when VGF was announced but had not gone on sale yet and no pricing nor point charts had been released.  These were from loooonggg time DISboard members and also long time DVC owners:
> 
> _"I've always said the only thing that would make me want to sell my BWV is GF. But not at the rumored price of $200 a point."
> _
> Yes - back in 2012 many were convinced that VGF was finally going to be the one that DVC priced at $200/pt as it's the "flagship" resort.
> 
> _"GFV will be somewhere around $160 a point give or take with price increases and specials"_
> 
> VGF started sales 7 months later for $145/pt to current members.  A little over a month later it went on sale to everyone at $150/pt.  At the time the main marketed resorts - BLT and AKV - had a base price of $160/pt and $130/pt respectively.    The wild guesses did not come to fruition and even the guesses of it being priced the same as the highest priced current didn't either - it was priced lower to kick off sales.  There's little worse to a business to have their new product stutter out of the gate.  They want to be able to hype up what a hit it is.  Then they can go to work on raising prices if they feel they can get it.  It's not to say that DVD always jumps in with both feet on marketing the new resort although that has almost always been the case.  However when CCV went on sale they continued with PVB as the main focus.  It made a lot of people decide CCV was a bust but then the sales focus changed, PVB "sold out" and CCV took the lead in sales.
> 
> And do not forget that even at the same or slightly lower price/pt DVC still would make more as VGF has the highest price chart.  This isn't just an apples to apples comparison.  They sell someone points to stay a week in a studio at VGF vs RIV they're getting 5%, 7% even 14% more in that sale of a week long stay.  And VGF will be all studios of some form which for square footage requires more points than including 2BR's which uses tripled the square footage but does not demand triple the points.  Plus DVC has done it's work to get the higher minimum established so new buyers will be required to purchase 150 pts or more initially which will align pretty well with VGF studio point charts.  DVD can price it the same as Riviera and if they sell the week long studio stay at each of the resorts they'll still have a larger sale to VGF buyers.


Though I’ve disagreed with you previously, your logic and DVC knowledgeability has won me over. I think you‘re exactly right. And I want to add on about 300 direct VGF points, not as much because they’re direct but more because my March UY is impossible to find resale anyway, and what’s out there is just priced too high anyway. So I’m hoping for as low a price point as posssible!


----------



## poofyo101

davidl81 said:


> RIV sold 61k points in May which is horrible for DVC active sales, but let’s give it an exception because of COVID.  But what’s more worrying is that RIV only made up about  40% of direct DVC sales which is historically poor compared to the 75-80% average.  SSR was talking a bunch of direct sales and I’m sure that is what caused the SSR price increase more than anything else.  They want RIV sales to increase.


You should not give any sales numbers an exception due to covid. If anything it should sell faster now.


----------



## sethschroeder

poofyo101 said:


> You should not give any sales numbers an exception due to covid. If anything it should sell faster now.



Ummmm no

If 65% of the homeowners had to leave your city for the last year do you think the contractors would still have too much work?

DVC is not the same as other industries. They have had restrictions on various methods of creating interest in DVC. Parks have been at 35% capacity, DL was closed, DCL was closed, no rich foreigners travel to WDW, and you have many members who might have been short and adding on not needing to because of cancelled trips.

So you absolutely need to give a pass.


----------



## TCRAIG

Nabas said:


> A few have written that VGF2 will start at $255pp or higher.
> 
> Who on this forum is ready to say that they will be a buyer at $255pp or higher?


Me - well me at 255 - I was planning on buying more points already before they announced VGF2 - and I want to stay with direct because my existing points are direct    and keeping the points the same as far as booking abilities is important to me.


----------



## Nabas

TCRAIG said:


> Me - well me at 255 - I was planning on buying more points already before they announced VGF2 - and I want to stay with direct because my existing points are direct    and keeping the points the same as far as booking abilities is important to me.


Addonitis! 

You could call them and add on right now.  Word is they are still selling if you call.  Any reason why you are waiting?


----------



## dvc lover 1970

Jelly563 said:


> It is so interesting to see people who think Disney is into LOWERING their prices.... (especially on their flagship resort !)  I wonder if they think Disney will offer annual passes for less than what they were selling them before too.  $275 will be the opening price for VGF2, $255 with incentives. BWV dreaming & dvc lover 1970 have it right



Sadly, I agree this will be the price. When VGF 1 opened at 145, I thought that was high, but that price helped to push the others upwards. Direct crossing the 200 per point range defeats the purpose of saving on vacations. I think the reason they are converting DVC 2 into studios only is to justify the high cost and lower points for studios so the sales pitch can be "for only 30,000 ($255 x 120points) you can stay in a studio every year for the next 43 years at VGF and this saves you over x amount of years" Not a bargain in my book


----------



## poofyo101

I just do not see it selling fast if the price stays at its current price. It doesn't sell fast now at that price. Not sure what would change.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

Nabas said:


> Addonitis!
> 
> You could call them and add on right now.  Word is they are still selling if you call.  Any reason why you are waiting?


That was a month ago. It is hit or miss especially if you have a preferred UY.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

poofyo101 said:


> I just do not see it selling fast if the price stays at its current price. It doesn't sell fast now at that price. Not sure what would change.


Disney may not be pricing it to sell fast. There are sales tactics in play.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

TCRAIG said:


> Me - well me at 255 - I was planning on buying more points already before they announced VGF2 - and I want to stay with direct because my existing points are direct    and keeping the points the same as far as booking abilities is important to me.


I did for these same reasons. Plus the resale prices , including stripped contracts, were just too expensive to wave the direct benefits.


----------



## davidl81

dvc lover 1970 said:


> Sadly, I agree this will be the price. When VGF 1 opened at 145, I thought that was high, but that price helped to push the others upwards. Direct crossing the 200 per point range defeats the purpose of saving on vacations. I think the reason they are converting DVC 2 into studios only is to justify the high cost and lower points for studios so the sales pitch can be "for only 30,000 ($255 x 120points) you can stay in a studio every year for the next 43 years at VGF and this saves you over x amount of years" Not a bargain in my book


But they are setting the floor for new sales at 150 points.  So at $255 it is $38,250.  That’s a lot of cash for a minimum purchase.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

davidl81 said:


> But they are setting the floor for new sales at 150 points.  So at $255 it is $38,250.  That’s a lot of cash for a minimum purchase.


And new homes have increased their prices $30,000-$40,000 in the last 3 months due to increased wood prices. But people are buying them like hot cakes.


----------



## Matty B13

davidl81 said:


> But they are setting the floor for new sales at 150 points.  So at $255 it is $38,250.  That’s a lot of cash for a minimum purchase.


Especially if you just spent $7k to $10k on a vacation at WDW, unless they let you deduct that from your current reservation.  Dropping $45K in one year for most families is a big deal.


----------



## davidl81

sethschroeder said:


> Ummmm no
> 
> If 65% of the homeowners had to leave your city for the last year do you think the contractors would still have too much work?
> 
> DVC is not the same as other industries. They have had restrictions on various methods of creating interest in DVC. Parks have been at 35% capacity, DL was closed, DCL was closed, no rich foreigners travel to WDW, and you have many members who might have been short and adding on not needing to because of cancelled trips.
> 
> So you absolutely need to give a pass.


I agree and really much of COVID time frame for direct sales I’m going to disregard.  But the big drop in RIV sales over the past two months has to be a concern to DVC.  Park capacity is constantly increasing, unemployment going down, all should lead to an increase in direct RIV sales.  Yet May was basically an all time low for RIV direct (and April was also poor).  That’s what is hard to figure out.


----------



## Marionnette

davidl81 said:


> But they are setting the floor for new sales at 150 points.  So at $255 it is $38,250.  That’s a lot of cash for a minimum purchase.


Especially when that minimum purchase only gets you a week in a standard view studio during the cheapest seasons, based on the current VGF points charts. If VGF2 studios are more points per night, that 150 buy-in won't even get you a week.


----------



## davidl81

Matty B13 said:


> Especially if you just spent $7k to $10k on a vacation at WDW, unless they let you deduct that from your current reservation.  Dropping $45K in one year for most families is a big deal.


The reality is a vast majority of direct DVC buyers finance.  Their concern is actually monthly payment/down payment.  But the increasing cost still play into this.  $255 a point for $150 points $38250.  So 10% down $3820 comes out to payments of $471 a month.  Then add annual dues on that of about $100 a month and now you are selling a $571 a month payment for the next 10 years to stay in a studio for one week a year.  That’s a lot, and that is the majority of Disney’s direct sales.


----------



## davidl81

BWV Dreamin said:


> And new homes have increased their prices $30,000-$40,000 in the last 3 months due to increased wood prices. But people are buying them like hot cakes.


Home prices are up mostly due to the fact that I can buy a new home with a 30 year note for 2.5-2.75% interest.  So a 30k jump in price although a lot of cash is almost an insignificant increase in monthly payments.  And timeshare sales just like home sales are primarily driven by monthly payments.  One thing no one is factoring here is the incredible spread Disney makes on financing DVC.  If prime rate for Disney is 2% or so, but they still charge new buyers 10.99% they are making 8-9% spread on a loan that is virtually no risk to them because in case of default they have a simple foreclosure process.  It is by far in DVCs best interest to sell as many points as they can, as quickly as they can, and get as many to finance as they can.


----------



## TCRAIG

Nabas said:


> Addonitis!
> 
> You could call them and add on right now.  Word is they are still selling if you call.  Any reason why you are waiting?


My UY for VGF is April so I’m in no rush - just in case the initial offer is less than $255…


----------



## Matty B13

TCRAIG said:


> My UY for VGF is April so I’m in no rush - just in case the initial offer is less than $255…


Ours is February, I wonder if they are going to sell 2021 UY points to existing owners, or make them wait for 2022 points.


----------



## TCRAIG

Matty B13 said:


> Ours is February, I wonder if they are going to sell 2021 UY points to existing owners, or make them wait for 2022 points.


Good question


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

Matty B13 said:


> Ours is February, I wonder if they are going to sell 2021 UY points to existing owners, or make them wait for 2022 points.



I think a lot will depend on when its actual opening date will be.  Say if it's in Oct then it might get a bit sketchy for any UY's getting 2021 points much like Riviera where it opened in Dec 2019 and Feb UY's had their first allotment of points in Feb 2020.   Since at least 1/2 of the UY's will already be in their 2022 UY that is what they will start with and a couple of them might even be in 2022 by the time sales even start.  

The points could not be used anywhere until the resort opens or the unit you have ownership in is available for occupancy anyway.


----------



## Matty B13

KAT4DISNEY said:


> I think a lot will depend on when its actual opening date will be.  Say if it's in Oct then it might get a bit sketchy for any UY's getting 2021 points much like Riviera where it opened in Dec 2019 and Feb UY's had their first allotment of points in Feb 2020.   Since at least 1/2 of the UY's will already be in their 2022 UY that is what they will start with and a couple of them might even be in 2022 by the time sales even start.
> 
> The points could not be used anywhere until the resort opens or the unit you have ownership in is available for occupancy anyway.


If we buy anymore at all...... a big if, we would then probably wait till December 2022 or January 2023 to buy.  Just the savings on MFs for most of 2022 would be better than most incentives that DVC offers.


----------



## mustinjourney

hcortesis said:


> I own at VGF.  I'm curious why you think that VGF1 will be preferred over 2.



room layout -- VGF1 has two shower areas and a kitchenette.  I do not see the hotel room having this same configuration given that they are rehabbing the rooms so quickly from hotel to DVC.  I could be wrong -- but I don't know how they could possibly gut that whole building and be done that fast.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

mustinjourney said:


> room layout -- VGF1 has two shower areas and a kitchenette.  I do not see the hotel room having this same configuration given that they are rehabbing the rooms so quickly from hotel to DVC.  I could be wrong -- but I don't know how they could possibly gut that whole building and be done that fast.



If they do 2 queen beds though or perhaps a King and a queen murphy bed plus a single murphy bed with either of those that could be of more importance than the bathroom config.  Difficult to say what will happen.   If they have better bed configs I think I'd be swayed towards that myself pretty easily.


----------



## mustinjourney

KAT4DISNEY said:


> If they do 2 queen beds though or perhaps a King and a queen murphy bed plus a single murphy bed with either of those that could be of more importance than the bathroom config.  Difficult to say what will happen.   If they have better bed configs I think I'd be swayed towards that myself pretty easily.



King with queen murphy and the fold down bed under TV would be ideal for 5 IMHO.    The kitchenette isn't as big of a deal to me as the extra shower area...but I would miss not having the microwave.  Our kids eat a lot of microwave stuff during disney vacations.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

mustinjourney said:


> King with queen murphy and the fold down bed under TV would be ideal for 5 IMHO.    The kitchenette isn't as big of a deal to me as the extra shower area...but I would miss not having the microwave.  Our kids eat a lot of microwave stuff during disney vacations.



A microwave only requires an outlet and some place to set it.  I have no doubt that will be in the room along with a coffee maker and toaster.  Just don't know about the same bathroom layout as in the existing VGF studios.


----------



## emmymac17

KAT4DISNEY said:


> A microwave only requires an outlet and some place to set it.  I have no doubt that will be in the room along with a coffee maker and toaster.  Just don't know about the same bathroom layout as in the existing VGF studios.



Agree - bed configs (especially a KING in a studio!!) would be awesome. I don't care about extra shower areas tbh. Assuming the regular hotel rooms have the mini fridge? The addition would be the microwave and/or toaster? That seems easy enough to squeeze in


----------



## Paul Stupin

mustinjourney said:


> room layout -- VGF1 has two shower areas and a kitchenette.  I do not see the hotel room having this same configuration given that they are rehabbing the rooms so quickly from hotel to DVC.  I could be wrong -- but I don't know how they could possibly gut that whole building and be done that fast.


I’m wondering if they’ll  open the building in waves, one redone floor at a time. But I don’t think we’ll see any surprise amenities that might be too pricey for Disney to include in the remodel. This is not going to be on par with the Riviera, or even in the same universe of “deluxe.” And it’s hard for me to conceive of it being sold at a premium.


----------



## davidl81

Paul Stupin said:


> I’m wondering if they’ll  open the building in waves, one redone floor at a time. But I don’t think we’ll see any surprise amenities that might be too pricey for Disney to include in the remodel. This is not going to be on par with the Riviera, or even in the same universe of “deluxe.” And it’s hard for me to conceive of it being sold at a premium.


I would expect to see something similar to the redone rooms at SSR, maybe a tad bit nicer.  That being said those new SSR rooms are very nice.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

Paul Stupin said:


> Though I’ve disagreed with you previously, your logic and DVC knowledgeability has won me over. I think you‘re exactly right. And I want to add on about 300 direct VGF points, not as much because they’re direct but more because my March UY is impossible to find resale anyway, and what’s out there is just priced too high anyway. So I’m hoping for as low a price point as posssible!



Well, in a few months we'll see how that historical perspective holds up!  lol


----------



## TCRAIG

I predict that the points for the new studios at VGF2 will be a bit higher than Std View and a bit lower than Lake View…as long as I can still get my week in a 1BR - it’s all a moot point for me…


----------



## Jelly563

2 real beds & the murphy would be awesome....  With more sq ft than VGF1, this should be an easy lay up


----------



## sethschroeder

Jelly563 said:


> 2 real beds & the murphy would be awesome....  With more sq ft than VGF1, this should be an easy lay up



The first 6 person studio is a slam dunk for money to be rolling in. They could then also price it closer to the 1BR prices to drive up the total number of points sold.


----------



## emmymac17

sethschroeder said:


> The first 6 person studio is a slam dunk for money to be rolling in. They could then also price it closer to the 1BR prices to drive up the total number of points sold.



6 people in a studio..for a week...eeeks...I guess people would squeeze to save points or if you had 4 little little kids. I read that proposal as two real beds and the twin murphy that has been popular in recent refurbs


----------



## davidl81

sethschroeder said:


> The first 6 person studio is a slam dunk for money to be rolling in. They could then also price it closer to the 1BR prices to drive up the total number of points sold.


First of all 6 people is a studio sounds horrible.  But even if that was the case cramming one more person into a studio is not going to come close to being realistic to ask to double the points per night (VGF 1BR are double the studios).  Could they add 2-3 more points per night, maybe?


----------



## sethschroeder

davidl81 said:


> First of all 6 people is a studio sounds horrible.  But even if that was the case cramming one more person into a studio is not going to come close to being realistic to ask to double the points per night (VGF 1BR are double the studios).  Could they add 2-3 more points per night, maybe?



So not the same cost as a 1BR no.

So just an example right now in the fall its 132/162 Studio vs 289/345 1BR. I think many would say the Lake Views from the old building are superior so are you going to be able to demand the higher point chart for lesser Lake Views even with a little more sq/ft?

Instead you can price these rooms all out at 200 for the week. It gets you an extra person, it is bigger, and you eliminate the view categories.

Plus you end up with 4 sleeping surface (2 queen beds, 1 fold down murphy under TV, 1 conversion daybed/ something similar). On top of that you make these connecting rooms possibly and you end up with a 400 point double room that sleeps 12 with 8 sleeping surfaces.

Not saying they will do it though just interesting thought.


----------



## Nabas

When VGF opened to members for $145pp, DVD had by far its biggest month ever, selling more than *364,000* WDW DVC resort points in July 2013.  This included 226,000 VGF points, which is the most points DVD sold at one resort in one month in more than 10 years.

For comparison, the second biggest month was *267,000* points, the first month RIV sales started.  (CCV sold 166,000 points, while RIV sold 59,000 points.)

Will DVD anticipate big numbers for the first month of VGF2 sales and price accordingly?


----------



## DianaMB333

Some questions please..
A) what is the expected date for VGF2 be available for sale?

B) if I own in other resorts (direct purchase), buying at VGF2 would be considered as a new membership ID therefore I’d have to go with the 150minimum?

C) If I buy a resale VGF today, then when VGf2 becomes available, what benefits could get me buying direct (add on or the full 150pts)…?

I assume that VGF will have access to the new studios, is that assumption correct?

thanks


----------



## davidl81

A) No firm on sale date as the opening is just “summer 2022”.  It’s likely as early as November/Dec 2020, or as late as maybe March/April 2022.  My guide thinks early next year.
B) You will not get a new membership ID as long as your new direct purchase matches your current use year.  It has not been stated the minimum purchase for VGF2 to current owners, but it’s likely a 50 point minimum 
C). If you have already bought direct (and at least the minimum amount you needed for a blue card at the time of purchase) then from a benefit standpoint you won’t lose anything buying resale right now as opposed to direct. There is a lot of debate on this board about what the direct prices will end up being.  Seems like the direct price could range anywhere from $195 a point to $255+ a point.  Very good arguments on both sides of this.  Resale seems to be in the high 180s right now, but very limited inventory so matching use years may be difficult.
D). Yes any VGF owner will have 11 month access to the new studios.


----------



## kboo

mustinjourney said:


> I sincerely hope the point charts for the new "resort studio" rooms will be 1 or 2 points less per night than the current studios.  If they are they same or higher -- I have a bad feeling that the VGF1 studios will end up being preferred, which will end up putting even more pressure on getting those studios than before.
> 
> The best way to alleviate the studio pressure at VGF1 is to make the new VGF2 studios more attractive to owners.  Otherwise, we're going to end up with a mess on our hands.


I could see a way to make VGF2 studios more attractive, for sure... whether that sells, and is attractive at whatever price point, remains to be seen. There may be some points rebalancing for the next few years ... 



stwaldman said:


> 1) vgf2 is unknown, and people who own VGF probably know what they love and are afraid to lose what they paid a pretty penny for if availability gets rough
> 2) the standard monorail view/proximity is quite nice and I think doesn't translate to the new building so much (I may be wrong, I've only stayed dvc)
> 3) the dvc building is a bit secluded off to the side, and has it's own nice lobby, which I think people are fond of and may not be recreated in big pine
> 4) the point allocation of vgf2 is unknown, and people bought contracts based on use/availability at vgf1


I could see them adding something different to VGF2 to make those studios at least as attractive, or maybe attractive to different groups of owners. Many of the views from that building are lagoon view, with some park views - even if they don't make it a separate category, it might be appealing to enter that "lottery." The GF outbuildings are considerably closer to the bus stop and the QS and the big pool, and there might be the possibility of a smaller boutique-y lobby there as well. 



ScarSimone said:


> Spot on.  Number 1 is what scares me some for lack of a better word.  I think its the way they will go - "resort studio", "pool view" "theme park view" etc, etc, and that is going to strain the studios in the existing building more.  I think a good portion of "old" vgf owners may end up buying small add ons, because they are having even more trouble getting the old "stardard view" rooms they had been getting in the past.
> 
> It will be interesting to see sales data when its available, but my guess is the average number of points purchased will be lower because this is going to cause a lot more 25 point add ons than normal.


As a person who usually books 1-br anyway, I am wondering whether this will make 1br easier to get. We've really only had trouble at Christmas, 8am at 11 mo. So we shall see if this changes availability for other rooms. 




Jelly563 said:


> 2 real beds & the murphy would be awesome....  With more sq ft than VGF1, this should be an easy lay up





sethschroeder said:


> On top of that you make these connecting rooms possibly


Even if not 2 real beds, a queen, queen murphy, and twin murphy (aka Riviera studio) with the ability to book a connecting studio?! HUGE win for large families or families staying together. This was the biggest complaint about Poly - no 1br or reasonably priced 2br. I could see booking 2 adjoining studios if we were 2 families of older kids who wanted to be in the parks most of the day - you wouldn't need a kitchen and you could sleep up to 10 for around the price of a 1br, or even somewhere less than a 2br.


----------



## sethschroeder

kboo said:


> Even if not 2 real beds, a queen, queen murphy, and twin murphy (aka Riviera studio) with the ability to book a connecting studio?! HUGE win for large families or families staying together. This was the biggest complaint about Poly - no 1br or reasonably priced 2br. I could see booking 2 adjoining studios if we were 2 families of older kids who wanted to be in the parks most of the day - you wouldn't need a kitchen and you could sleep up to 10 for around the price of a 1br, or even somewhere less than a 2br.



I sure hope as well they update the system unlike POLY where you can book a connecting studio right in the system as well. Not a request but a guarantee for a certain % of rooms and then after that its a request but not guaranteed.


----------



## kboo

sethschroeder said:


> I sure hope as well they update the system unlike POLY where you can book a connecting studio right in the system as well. Not a request but a guarantee for a certain % of rooms and then after that its a request but not guaranteed.


Yes! I was all, "this doesn't affect me except maybe make it easier to get a 1br," but then realized while typing that this might be nice when we someday will travel with another family. Also some people might not want the craziness of the feature pool and splash area.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

sethschroeder said:


> I sure hope as well they update the system unlike POLY where you can book a connecting studio right in the system as well. Not a request but a guarantee for a certain % of rooms and then after that its a request but not guaranteed.



There's no ability to book guaranteed connecting studios at PVB.  Or do you mean on the hotel side?


----------



## CarolMN

kboo said:


> I could see them adding something different to VGF2 to make those studios at least as attractive, or maybe attractive to different groups of owners. Many of the views from that building are lagoon view, with some park views - even if they don't make it a separate category, it might be appealing to enter that "lottery." The GF outbuildings are considerably closer to the bus stop and the QS and the big pool, and there might be the possibility of a smaller boutique-y lobby there as well.


What if they added a washer& dryer?  I'd happily pay a few more points per night  for that!


----------



## sethschroeder

KAT4DISNEY said:


> There's no ability to book guaranteed connecting studios at PVB.  Or do you mean on the hotel side?



Correct I am saying they need to fix the system unlike how PVB works today. Today you book 2 studios, request it, and it likely will be a request that is filled.

I am saying its 2021 they should be able to make it so you book a room category (studios connecting) and its guaranteed then to be connecting. More like DCL.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

CarolMN said:


> What if they added a washer& dryer?  I'd happily pay a few more points per night  for that!



Me too!


----------



## hcortesis

CarolMN said:


> What if they added a washer& dryer?  I'd happily pay a few more points per night  for that!





KAT4DISNEY said:


> Me too!


 Yes, agreed.  And for us, Club Level would definitely mean an add on and 100% we would choose 2 or 1.


----------



## DVCsloth

I suspect they will make the new studios really nice and worthy of Flagship status. Or I at least hope so because I really enjoy my 1BR stays at the Villas and hope that this doesn't make it harder to book a 1BR.


----------



## hcortesis

hcortesis said:


> Yes, agreed.  And for us, Club Level would definitely mean an add on and 100% we would choose 2 or 1.



Sorry, meant 2 "OVER" 1


----------



## kboo

The more I think about it, the more I would seriously consider booking adjoining studios (if that were possible) even instead of a 1br for our family of 4 - the key being the ability to shut a door between our room and theirs, and that they would have a real bed and we would still have couches to sit on.


----------



## Lexxiefern

CarolMN said:


> What if they added a washer& dryer?  I'd happily pay a few more points per night  for that!



I would love that! However, wouldnt that require additional plumbing? And if it seems unlikely they will add the kitchenette sink, it would seem even more unlikely to add plumbing for a W&D.


----------



## CarolMN

Lexxiefern said:


> I would love that! However, wouldnt that require additional plumbing? And if it seems unlikely they will add the kitchenette sink, it would seem even more unlikely to add plumbing for a W&D.


No idea what it would take or cost.  That said, they did add plumbing for the extra shower & sink and kitchenette for the Poly.   So a girl can dream!


----------



## Sandisw

CarolMN said:


> No idea what it would take or cost.  That said, they did add plumbing for the extra shower & sink and kitchenette for the Poly.   So a girl can dream!



And given the fact these rooms are bigger it seems perfect to make them have them! It’d certainly be a big draw!


----------



## AvidDisReader

kboo said:


> The more I think about it, the more I would seriously consider booking adjoining studios (if that were possible) even instead of a 1br for our family of 4 - the key being the ability to shut a door between our room and theirs, and that they would have a real bed and we would still have couches to sit on.


I did this when booked Poly with my daughters family.  The Grand Kids really loved going back and forth between the 2 rooms.  The draw back is not having a full kitchen plus no washer/dryer.  Now we do not do a lot of cooking except for breakfast, really missed a good hot breakfast to start the day.  So while we all enjoyed the stay, we all agreed for the points used it would have been better to book a one bedroom at BLT.


----------



## davidl81

Let’s go wild and say a club level and a Washer/Dryer!  That would actually get us to buy since I can justify the points chart by comparing it to 1BRs at other resorts.  Club level can help with some of the breakfast type food, and of course the washer and dryer which are lifesavers for us on vacation.


----------



## Jelly563

I'm just thinking about the ridiculous profit Disney could make off of a washer and dryer..... They prob get the pair for about $600... Then even if it is 1pt per night, guests pay $245 for that point.....for 365 days a year !!!   then if there are 2000 members, each pay $7 in dues.  I know other things are included with dues, but we easily toss around a single point like it's nothing and the cost behind that point is expensive


----------



## Lexxiefern

CarolMN said:


> No idea what it would take or cost.  That said, they did add plumbing for the extra shower & sink and kitchenette for the Poly.   So a girl can dream!



Good point! I would love the washer & dryer. It’s a huge reason why I mostly book 1 bedrooms. And I would for sure pay a few more points to have one in a studio


----------



## macman123

I do wonder if they will have resale restrictions.

Would seem strange to be selling a brand new building, but without resstrictions.

But I cant see how they can have restrictions with the existing Association.


----------



## Jelly563

Since these are all studios,  I would LOVE to see them attempt to furnish the room with a bunk bed . families with 2 kids 1 on the top 1 on the bottom.   parents in the bed and maybe even the murphy to give all 5 a real mattress


----------



## Sandisw

Jelly563 said:


> Since these are all studios,  I would LOVE to see them attempt to furnish the room with a bunk bed . families with 2 kids 1 on the top 1 on the bottom.   parents in the bed and maybe even the murphy to give all 5 a real mattress


The problem though is bunk beds do not work for adults so I’d think I’d be very limiting who would want that particular option.


----------



## DebbieB

CarolMN said:


> No idea what it would take or cost.  That said, they did add plumbing for the extra shower & sink and kitchenette for the Poly.   So a girl can dream!



They gutted the Poly buildings and started over.   With the timeframe for VGF2, I don't see them doing much.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

There could be delays so maybe they will gut it and just open a few at a time, which technically keeps them “ on schedule”.


----------



## Nabas

DebbieB said:


> They gutted the Poly buildings and started over.   With the timeframe for VGF2, I don't see them doing much.


I'm not sure how much they can get done.  The Poly took a year and (I assume) involved all of their 479 rooms and most common areas.

VGF2 has 200 rooms in one building.  Disney announced spring to summer, which could be anywhere from 3 to 6 months.

Perhaps the VGF2 conversion will be more efficient since it's all in one building?


----------



## DebbieB

I can't remember how long it took them from the time they closed the Poly buildings to DVC opening but it seemed like it was well over a year.     It depends on how many people they want to hire to get it done fast.


----------



## TT4Dis

CarolMN said:


> What if they added a washer& dryer?  I'd happily pay a few more points per night  for that!



We are a family of 3 that loves the convenience of a 1br. I love VGF and if they add a w/d to VGF 2.0 studios, well Disney can just have all of my money.


----------



## CarolMN

TT4Dis said:


> We are a family of 3 that loves the convenience of a 1br. I love VGF and if they add a w/d to VGF 2.0 studios, well Disney can just have all of my money.


LOL.  I think they already have most of my vacation $$.  But if they add a w/d to those studios, I'll find more somewhere!


----------



## jbreen2010

I’ve been interested in buying VGF. Was thinking of going resale but would hate to pay $200pp resale if they launch it for new at $205 or $210.
Has anyone heard anything new about when they will open up sales?


----------



## macman123

jbreen2010 said:


> I’ve been interested in buying VGF. Was thinking of going resale but would hate to pay $200pp resale if they launch it for new at $205 or $210.
> Has anyone heard anything new about when they will open up sales?



No. I spoke to my guide this week. They don't have any news.

But I am on the list for when they do.


----------



## fumanchu2488

I spoke with my guide this morning and they said they were starting construction in Spring 2022 and will have the resort open Summer 2022.

I don’t really know what that means for sales date or when pricing will be released, but have they ever done something like this where they open a resort with no sales?  Even if they were to open in August 2022 they would have booking available this September.  Seems like they should be selling now or at least have prices listed and details.


----------



## Nabas

jbreen2010 said:


> I’ve been interested in buying VGF. Was thinking of going resale but would hate to pay $200pp resale if they launch it for new at $205 or $210.
> Has anyone heard anything new about when they will open up sales?


DVC News published two articles this week:

"Permit Filed For Grand Floridian Construction"

And:

"Grand Floridian Timeshare License Amended For New Villas"

As stated in the second article:

The timeshare license amendment does not necessarily indicate immediate plans to begin selling points. Disney Vacation Club was issued a timeshare license for Copper Creek 314 days before its opening. The license for Disney's Riviera Resort was granted more than 500 days before its debut.​


----------



## Paul Stupin

fumanchu2488 said:


> I spoke with my guide this morning and they said they were starting construction in Spring 2022 and will have the resort open Summer 2022.
> 
> I don’t really know what that means for sales date or when pricing will be released, but have they ever done something like this where they open a resort with no sales?  Even if they were to open in August 2022 they would have booking available this September.  Seems like they should be selling now or at least have prices listed and details.


I started a thread asking this very question. Some folks say not until Spring, but I'm hoping for sometime in the Fall. Seems like they'd want to take advantage of the crowds coming in for the 50th, as well as Christmas, to start sales.


----------



## Paul Stupin

Nabas said:


> DVC News published two articles this week:
> 
> "Permit Filed For Grand Floridian Construction"
> 
> And:
> 
> "Grand Floridian Timeshare License Amended For New Villas"
> 
> As stated in the second article:
> 
> The timeshare license amendment does not necessarily indicate immediate plans to begin selling points. Disney Vacation Club was issued a timeshare license for Copper Creek 314 days before its opening. The license for Disney's Riviera Resort was granted more than 500 days before its debut.​


I think the construction timeline for VGF2 is considerably shorter, which could mean an earlier date to start sales. CCV, also a conversion, has one bedrooms, VGF2 won't...which could mean a much faster completion date.


----------



## Stargazer65

There's no options on the poll for *lo*_*wer* _price than Riviera. What's the deal with that?


----------



## Paul Stupin

Stargazer65 said:


> There's no options on the poll for *lo*_*wer* _price than Riviera. What's the deal with that?


Good point! Personally, I think they’ll be about the same.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

Stargazer65 said:


> There's no options on the poll for *lo*_*wer* _price than Riviera. What's the deal with that?


In your dreams! Just not gonna happen.


----------



## Stargazer65

BWV Dreamin said:


> In your dreams! Just not gonna happen.


Says the person with "Dreamin" in their username coincidentally lol.  What can I say...I'm all about foolish optimism.


----------



## DebbieB

fumanchu2488 said:


> I spoke with my guide this morning and they said they were starting construction in Spring 2022 and will have the resort open Summer 2022.
> 
> I don’t really know what that means for sales date or when pricing will be released, but have they ever done something like this where they open a resort with no sales?  Even if they were to open in August 2022 they would have booking available this September.  Seems like they should be selling now or at least have prices listed and details.



New construction isn’t typically 11 months, especially when they haven’t started sales.    It could be 4 or 5 months, whenever sales start.    Resort owners typically get a month lead time over non home owners.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

fumanchu2488 said:


> I spoke with my guide this morning and they said they were starting construction in Spring 2022 and will have the resort open Summer 2022.
> 
> I don’t really know what that means for sales date or when pricing will be released, but have they ever done something like this where they open a resort with no sales?  Even if they were to open in August 2022 they would have booking available this September.  Seems like they should be selling now or at least have prices listed and details.


I don’t think they need to. They’ll sell probably 1/4th of the points on offer in the first 2 weeks they’re available. I imagine that will be in the Spring but that’s a guess.


----------



## dvc lover 1970

I fear the new resort will squeeze the one and two bed units. They will have a flood of points for studios but there wont be balance for the other booking categories. Typical disney doing the renovation on the cheap


----------



## Paul Stupin

dvc lover 1970 said:


> I fear the new resort will squeeze the one and two bed units. They will have a flood of points for studios but there wont be balance for the other booking categories. Typical disney doing the renovation on the cheap


Not sure about two bedrooms, but I think the one bedrooms will be ok. Its the studios that always go first, and I think thats what the majority of buyers will want. The point chart for one and two bedrooms is very very high.


----------



## pirate33

Paul Stupin said:


> Not sure about two bedrooms, but I think the one bedrooms will be ok. Its the studios that always go first, and I think thats what the majority of buyers will want. The point chart for one and two bedrooms is very very high.



I agree.  And in addition to the cost for one and two bedrooms being high (high point cost times high point requirements), the new building is only studios and therefore one would think most new buyers will be targeting a studio stay.


----------



## RamblinWreck

pirate33 said:


> I agree.  And in addition to the cost for one and two bedrooms being high (high point cost times high point requirements), the new building is only studios and therefore one would think most new buyers will be targeting a studio stay.


Most, but not all.

You’re definitely adding at least some buyers who will want one bedroom accommodations, and you’re definitely not adding any new one bedroom units.

It’s hard to see it not having at least some effect.



But, I suppose you could argue that some of the current one bedroom bookings are made by people who would have preferred a studio, but waited too long to make their reservation. If that’s true then maybe, just maybe, it ends up being net neutral.


----------



## pirate33

RamblinWreck said:


> Most, but not all.
> 
> You’re definitely adding at least some buyers who will want one bedroom accommodations, and you’re definitely not adding any new one bedroom units.
> 
> It’s hard to see it not having at least some effect.
> 
> 
> 
> But, I suppose you could argue that some of the current one bedroom bookings are made by people who would have preferred a studio, but waited too long to make their reservation. If that’s true then maybe, just maybe, it ends up being net neutral.



All good points.


----------



## KTownRaider

When I bought into VGF right before the VGF2 announcement (bad timing), I had anticipated getting 1-2BR Standard Views.  Now, I'll be adding on next year to able to comfortably book 2BR Lake Views assuming Standard 1-2BRs will be harder to book.  I don't always plan to stay in a larger unit, but I do want relatively easy access to them during the 7-11 month period.  Otherwise, I would have bought at Poly...


----------



## Paul Stupin

RamblinWreck said:


> Most, but not all.
> 
> You’re definitely adding at least some buyers who will want one bedroom accommodations, and you’re definitely not adding any new one bedroom units.
> 
> It’s hard to see it not having at least some effect.
> 
> 
> 
> But, I suppose you could argue that some of the current one bedroom bookings are made by people who would have preferred a studio, but waited too long to make their reservation. If that’s true then maybe, just maybe, it ends up being net neutral.



The vast majority of demand across DVC lies in studios, and particularly value studios, a fact of which Disney is quite aware, considering that VGF2 is exclusively studios, and DLT is primarily studios. Sure, you’ll have outliers who want to try one and two bedrooms, but as you said it works both ways, plus there will be VGF owners who want to try the new building.
The point cost for one and two bedrooms is monumentally high, and it’s hard for me to believe that there’s going to be a sudden, massive surge in demand for some of the priciest accommodations at WDW, when the entire new building is designed for value oriented buyers.


----------



## Jelly563

Value buyers for cheap studio rooms = Yes
But.... get out your checkbooks, because they are going to make you pay for it. $275pp


----------



## Paul Stupin

Jelly563 said:


> Value buyers for cheap studio rooms = Yes
> But.... get out your checkbooks, because they are going to make you pay for it. $275pp


I guess they could price VGF2 in the stratosphere, but all the buyers would go to Riviera and no one would buy VGF2. That’s why most new DVC resorts are similarly priced, so a situation like that doesn’t happen. And the purpose of a new VGF building is not to help sales at Riviera!
I think they stopped selling VGF for $255 direct because it would have been perceived as unethical to keep selling at the sold out price when VGF2 would open lower, at Riviera level. And all those buyers at $255 would feel totally ripped off! They’d rather sell their new direct VGF2 points to buyers anyway, because their profit margin for the $255 price point is lower since they have to buy the product on resale. I still say VGF2 will open at $225-$240, with incentives taking the price lower.
Also, this is a cheap, fast remodel, not a new build, with a forty not fifty year expiration date. It cannot support an astronomical price, and is not intended to.


----------



## Paul Stupin

And one other thing! Demand for VGF at $255 was pretty low. Why would anyone think they would price it higher? It’s not a new resort…it’s the exact same product!


----------



## RoseGold

Jelly563 said:


> Value buyers for cheap studio rooms = Yes
> But.... get out your checkbooks, because they are going to make you pay for it. $275pp



Finally someone on board with me!  We will be right.


----------



## Paul Stupin

RoseGold said:


> Finally someone on board with me!  We will be right.


I love the debate...only time will tell! But I sincerely doubt that an all studio remodel of an existing hotel building, done in 6 months, will be priced more than a brand new beautifully built from the ground up resort like Riviera, which has roughly 25% more time on the contract.


----------



## RoseGold

Paul Stupin said:


> But I sincerely doubt that an all studio remodel of an existing hotel building, done in 6 months, will be priced more than a brand new beautifully built from the ground up resort like Riviera, which has roughly 25% more time on the contract.



Well, there's still a few million points left on that beautifully built resort if you are buying.

Also, a few million at another beautiful one in another lovely location...


----------



## Paul Stupin

RoseGold said:


> Well, there's still a few million points left on that beautifully built resort if you are buying.
> 
> Also, a few million at another beautiful one in another lovely location...


I thought about it. Am just not as wild about the location and dining as everyone else. But I’ve got enough direct points to stay there if rooms are available at 7 months. Am more of a VGF fan.


----------



## Paul Stupin

RoseGold said:


> Well, there's still a few million points left on that beautifully built resort if you are buying.
> 
> Also, a few million at another beautiful one in another lovely location...


And I actually do own at Aulani. We live in LA so it’s not the epic journey that it is for some folks on the east coast.


----------



## Marionnette

Paul Stupin said:


> I love the debate...only time will tell! But I sincerely doubt that an all studio remodel of an existing hotel building, done in 6 months, will be priced more than a brand new beautifully built from the ground up resort like Riviera, which has roughly 25% more time on the contract.


But they're not just selling the converted studios.  They're selling home resort access to their flagship resort, including the original studios, 1BRs, 2BRs and GVs.


----------



## Paul Stupin

Marionnette said:


> But they're not just selling the converted studios.  They're selling home resort access to their flagship resort, including the original studios, 1BRs, 2BRs and GVs.


Of course! But clearly the demand is there for studios. And if they try to price them wildly higher than their other properties currently for sale, no one will buy. There wasn’t a huge demand for direct points at $255, so I’m not exactly sure why so many folks think there will be greater demand at an even higher price.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

KTownRaider said:


> When I bought into VGF right before the VGF2 announcement (bad timing), I had anticipated getting 1-2BR Standard Views.  Now, I'll be adding on next year to able to comfortably book 2BR Lake Views assuming Standard 1-2BRs will be harder to book.  I don't always plan to stay in a larger unit, but I do want relatively easy access to them during the 7-11 month period.  Otherwise, I would have bought at Poly...


I too purchased more direct VGF points a month before the announcement. I look at it as great timing, as there is a very good chance the ppp will be MORE than what we paid direct last spring.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

Paul Stupin said:


> Of course! But clearly the demand is there for studios. And if they try to price them wildly higher than their other properties currently for sale, no one will buy. There wasn’t a huge demand for direct points at $255, so I’m not exactly sure why so many folks think there will be greater demand at an even higher price.


Inflation, inflation, inflation.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

Paul Stupin said:


> I guess they could price VGF2 in the stratosphere, but all the buyers would go to Riviera and no one would buy VGF2. That’s why most new DVC resorts are similarly priced, so a situation like that doesn’t happen. And the purpose of a new VGF building is not to help sales at Riviera!
> I think they stopped selling VGF for $255 direct because it would have been perceived as unethical to keep selling at the sold out price when VGF2 would open lower, at Riviera level. And all those buyers at $255 would feel totally ripped off! They’d rather sell their new direct VGF2 points to buyers anyway, because their profit margin for the $255 price point is lower since they have to buy the product on resale. I still say VGF2 will open at $225-$240, with incentives taking the price lower.
> Also, this is a cheap, fast remodel, not a new build, with a forty not fifty year expiration date. It cannot support an astronomical price, and is not intended to.


We have no idea what the opening price will be. Remember what ASSUME means….lol….


----------



## Paul Stupin

BWV Dreamin said:


> I too purchased more direct VGF points a month before the announcement. I look at it as great timing, as there is a very good chance the ppp will be MORE than what we paid direct last spring.


Me too, but I look at it as bad timing. But, yes, no one really knows! The reality is probably somewhere in the middle, not astronomically high, but not bargain basement either.  I too am buying more for easy access to one bedrooms with lake view from 11-7 month.


----------



## Sandisw

BWV Dreamin said:


> We have no idea what the opening price will be. Remember what ASSUME means….lol….



That’s true, but it applies to both theories.  Historically, new resorts come out lower than most think.  This is a unique case, where you have one new resort in active sales and starting sales at a sold out resort by adding rooms,

As many as said, it’s fine pricing something at $255 when you are not trying to sell millions of points, at a minimum of 150 now.  

I have said this before…raising the minimum will allow them to sell for less. 150 points at $220 makes them more than doing the old 125@ $255.  

For all we know, by the time the decide to sell, they will raise the minimum again so the price per point can stay closer to RIV.  Lots of marketing strategies to choose from.

Plus, the bulk of VGF will now be studios and rumor has it that there will be no kitchen sink…just mini fridge and microwave. If that proves true, it could impact how interested people will be.


----------



## Paul Stupin

Sandisw said:


> That’s true, but it applies to both theories.  Historically, new resorts come out lower than most think.  This is a unique case, where you have one new resort in active sales and starting sales at a sold out resort by adding rooms,
> 
> As many as said, it’s fine pricing something at $255 when you are not trying to sell millions of points, at a minimum of 150 now.
> 
> I have said this before…raising the minimum will allow them to sell for less. 150 points at $220 makes them more than doing the old 125@ $255.
> 
> For all we know, by the time the decide to sell, they will raise the minimum again so the price per point can stay closer to RIV.  Lots of marketing strategies to choose from.
> 
> Plus, the bulk of VGF will now be studios and rumor has it that there will be no kitchen sink…just mini fridge and microwave. If that proves true, it could impact how interested people will be.


The lack of kitchen sink could account for the speed with which they plan on doing the remodel. And thanx for your point of view. I think all your observations are valid, and interesting.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

Sandisw said:


> That’s true, but it applies to both theories.  Historically, new resorts come out lower than most think.  This is a unique case, where you have one new resort in active sales and starting sales at a sold out resort by adding rooms,
> 
> As many as said, it’s fine pricing something at $255 when you are not trying to sell millions of points, at a minimum of 150 now.
> 
> I have said this before…raising the minimum will allow them to sell for less. 150 points at $220 makes them more than doing the old 125@ $255.
> 
> For all we know, by the time the decide to sell, they will raise the minimum again so the price per point can stay closer to RIV.  Lots of marketing strategies to choose from.
> 
> Plus, the bulk of VGF will now be studios and rumor has it that there will be no kitchen sink…just mini fridge and microwave. If that proves true, it could impact how interested people will be.


Noooooo……. this really goes against the DVC model. How can you possibly have a home away from home with no kitchen sink?


----------



## Sandisw

BWV Dreamin said:


> Noooooo……. this really goes against the DVC model. How can you possibly have a home away from home with no kitchen sink?



It is just a rumor. But could be why it was called a resort studio??

It would definitely be a different type of room. If it proves true, it could make booking studios at VGF1 building harder.


----------



## Stargazer65

BWV Dreamin said:


> Noooooo……. this really goes against the DVC model. How can you possibly have a home away from home with no kitchen sink?





Sandisw said:


> It would definitely be a different type of room


Tower studios at the Riviera are like that, aren't they?


----------



## dvc lover 1970

Yes studios go first, followed by the two-bedroom units. Two beds are sometimes tight in 11 month window. Now 11 month will be necessary for it. Also for studios, the conversion building looks to be mostly preferred studios - lake view and pool view - so I think that will also squeeze the standard view studios in the original building. Once again creating an 11 month priority window.


----------



## dvc lover 1970

Sandisw said:


> It is just a rumor. But could be why it was called a resort studio??
> 
> It would definitely be a different type of room. If it proves true, it could make booking studios at VGF1 building harder.


Sounds like it is basically a hotel room that is DVC. Given the condensed timeline of when they expect to be finished, I think they are basically keeping the rooms as they are, changing the a few things. IF this is the route they go, then they would be better off to keep those studios with two queen beds. THAT might appeal to many families who want studios. I know when we first purchased the one thing we did not like about the studios was the pull out couch. OKW is the only resort with two queen beds in the studios. So - if they keep the two queen beds and maybe offer connecting studios like the poly, it will be a win.


----------



## davidl81

Paul Stupin said:


> I love the debate...only time will tell! But I sincerely doubt that an all studio remodel of an existing hotel building, done in 6 months, will be priced more than a brand new beautifully built from the ground up resort like Riviera, which has roughly 25% more time on the contract.


Also RIV is currently not selling at a great pace at its current pricing.  It would not be logical for Disney to spend the capital on the VGF2 project, and price it so high it has trouble selling.  If RIV was selling at a very high rate maybe, but RIVs best sales were at a lower price point.  VGF is a better location IMO but asking almost 30% more for it is not going to happen.  It’s never happened in the history of DVC that they released a new resort and had that large of a price increase versus their currently selling resort.


----------



## kanerf

Sandisw said:


> That’s true, but it applies to both theories.  Historically, new resorts come out lower than most think.  This is a unique case, where you have one new resort in active sales and starting sales at a sold out resort by adding rooms,
> 
> As many as said, it’s fine pricing something at $255 when you are not trying to sell millions of points, at a minimum of 150 now.
> 
> I have said this before…raising the minimum will allow them to sell for less. 150 points at $220 makes them more than doing the old 125@ $255.
> 
> For all we know, by the time the decide to sell, they will raise the minimum again so the price per point can stay closer to RIV.  Lots of marketing strategies to choose from.
> 
> Plus, the bulk of VGF will now be studios and rumor has it that there will be no kitchen sink…just mini fridge and microwave. If that proves true, it could impact how interested people will be.


Would not bother me.  I don't do dishes on DVC stays in a Studio.  You get all of the paper plates and such, so why would it be needed?  A real fridge with a freezer compartment would be a great improvement.


----------



## RoseGold

davidl81 said:


> It would not be logical for Disney to spend the capital on the VGF2 project, and price it so high it has trouble selling.



They don't care if it sells, it will be priced bananas.  They have nothing else planned, so they don't really want it to sell out instantly.  The point was to spend as little capital as possible to have something "new" on a small project.  This is maybe 2M points.  They aren't trying to sell a ton of VGF, just kick the can down the road a year or two.  It's clear the real money makers are the ground up, mediocre location properties like RIV, with scary charts and pricing, and that's years away.


----------



## Sandisw

kanerf said:


> Would not bother me.  I don't do dishes on DVC stays in a Studio.  You get all of the paper plates and such, so why would it be needed?  A real fridge with a freezer compartment would be a great improvement.



I make coffee and prefer not to use a bathroom sink. End of the world? No.

But it does make it different and basically a hotel room which to me means that pricing needs to reflect that to get it to sell.


----------



## kanerf

Sandisw said:


> I make coffee and prefer not to use a bathroom sink. End of the world? No.
> 
> But it does make it different and basically a hotel room which to me means that pricing needs to reflect that to get it to sell.


I make coffee as well and avoid Florida tap water like the plague.  I get a gallon of purified or spring water delivered and use that for coffee.


----------



## Paul Stupin

BWV Dreamin said:


> Noooooo……. this really goes against the DVC model. How can you possibly have a home away from home with no kitchen sink?
> 
> 
> 
> Sandisw said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is just a rumor. But could be why it was called a resort studio??
> 
> It would definitely be a different type of room. If it proves true, it could make booking studios at VGF1 building harder.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess it can go against the DVC model if it’s a remodeled hotel room that Disney wants to spend no money converting to DVC. That said, my money would still be on a kitchen sink being there.
> 
> But if the new building doesn’t have sinks, but the point chart is super low, those “resort studios” could still book fast.
Click to expand...


----------



## Jelly563

It's not about shiny new and beautiful, it's about getting a studio at the Flagship resort that u can now walk to MK.... how big is SSR and you have owners who have never spent 1 night there because they try to get into premium studios.


----------



## CarolMN

If the rumor is true and it's just a DVC Hotel room, then we may stay ONCE for a night or two, but will not be buying, and I feel badly for the current VGF owners who now have to compete with the new building's owners for the existing villas.


----------



## Sandisw

CarolMN said:


> If the rumor is true and it's just a DVC Hotel room, then we may stay ONCE for a night or two, but will not be buying, and I feel badly for the current VGF owners who now have to compete with the new building's owners for the existing villas.



I am with you as well. I am holding out to buy more points direct there next year but only if the new studios are like a really studio. I don’t want two beds. I want the Murphy bed sofa option if I am going to buy there.


----------



## davidl81

CarolMN said:


> If the rumor is true and it's just a DVC Hotel room, then we may stay ONCE for a night or two, but will not be buying, and I feel badly for the current VGF owners who now have to compete with the new building's owners for the existing villas.


We would buy just to get a VGF hotel room for the occasional couples trips the wife and I try to take each year.  Specifically for marathon weekends.  We can use current points for the full family trips.


----------



## davidl81

RoseGold said:


> They don't care if it sells, it will be priced bananas.  They have nothing else planned, so they don't really want it to sell out instantly.  The point was to spend as little capital as possible to have something "new" on a small project.  This is maybe 2M points.  They aren't trying to sell a ton of VGF, just kick the can down the road a year or two.  It's clear the real money makers are the ground up, mediocre location properties like RIV, with scary charts and pricing, and that's years away.


No one spends capital without looking at the rate of return of the project, and nothing kills rate of return more than time.  The longer it takes to sell the less profitable the project is.  Disney will not build something for it not to sell.  They will price it at a point where it will sell at the normal rate for a new DVC resort.  They will not be pricing it too high for it not to sell at a decent rate.


----------



## DVCsloth

CarolMN said:


> If the rumor is true and it's just a DVC Hotel room, then we may stay ONCE for a night or two, but will not be buying, and I feel badly for the current VGF owners who now have to compete with the new building's owners for the existing villas.


That's what I'm worried about and the fact that I like to stay in 1BR Standard view sometimes. Now there will be a lot of new owners to compete with. Hoping DVC doesn't give  us current owners a raw deal.


----------



## Sandisw

DVCsloth said:


> That's what I'm worried about and the fact that I like to stay in 1BR Standard view sometimes. Now there will be a lot of new owners to compete with. Hoping DVC doesn't give  us current owners a raw deal.



Unfortunately, adding all those new points and rooms to the same association is going to make it tough for current owners who have always booked rooms other than studios.

Not sure how this won’t impact all that choose to own there.


----------



## CaliAdventurer

As a fairly invested owner of VGF, I’ll be livid if this screws original owners over.  I didn’t pay that much to fight for rooms in the owners window.  We book 1 and 2 beds and so I’m rightfully nervous.  Then again, maybe this is the push I need to sell my contract and get a condo nearby.  The minute you tell me I have to book rooms at my home resort like dining reservations (in the middle of the night, day of) I’m out.


----------



## CarolMN

Really don't want to spend any time worrying about rumors and speculation.  I hope that DVD releases some official info soon.  Then at least we can be upset over facts, and speculate how we think it will play out for the existing VGF owners. 

I am reminded of some of the Riviera threads that got us all upset over things that haven't turned out to be true.


----------



## ngchiro

Matches Disney efforts to maximize exposure and profit with a strand holding to the past Disney Experience philosophy.  Wall Street???


----------



## Paul Stupin

CarolMN said:


> If the rumor is true and it's just a DVC Hotel room, then we may stay ONCE for a night or two, but will not be buying, and I feel badly for the current VGF owners who now have to compete with the new building's owners for the existing villas.


I do own there, but we love the one bedroom lake view, and the point charts are just so high I’m not really worried about availability decreasing, especially at 11 months. And if those new studios are in a newly created category that is the cheapest, they’ll probably be the most popular.
One other thing. Maybe Disney will freshen up some of the hotel common areas as well, which will benefit us all. We also own at CCV, and would consider staying at the “resort studios” for a night or two at the start of a longer visit to CCV just for fun.
One nice thing about VGF2 is that finally direct points (hopefully reasonably priced!) will be plentiful, at least for a little while. I bet it will sell out relatively fast.


----------



## davidl81

Paul Stupin said:


> I do own there, but we love the one bedroom lake view, and the point charts are just so high I’m not really worried about availability decreasing, especially at 11 months. And if those new studios are in a newly created category that is the cheapest, they’ll probably be the most popular.
> One other thing. Maybe Disney will freshen up some of the hotel common areas as well, which will benefit us all. We also own at CCV, and would consider staying at the “resort studios” for a night or two at the start of a longer visit to CCV just for fun.
> One nice thing about VGF2 is that finally direct points (hopefully reasonably priced!) will be plentiful, at least for a little while. I bet it will sell out relatively fast.


At $200ish a point contracts will sell fairly quickly.  A lot of the contracts may be smaller though (combination of the high price per point and low point requirement for studios) so not sure how long it will take them to sell out completely.  At 200ish per point I plan on adding on 200 points when they go on presale to members.


----------



## Paul Stupin

davidl81 said:


> At $200ish a point contracts will sell fairly quickly.  A lot of the contracts may be smaller though (combination of the high price per point and low point requirement for studios) so not sure how long it will take them to sell out completely.  At 200ish per point I plan on adding on 200 points when they go on presale to members.


I’m hoping for 200ish per point, but that will probably include the highest tier of incentives since I’m going to add on 325 points. I’d bet the smaller contracts might start around $225. It will deal a blow to the resale market, which is exactly what they’ll want to do.


----------



## davidl81

Paul Stupin said:


> I’m hoping for 200ish per point, but that will probably include the highest tier of incentives since I’m going to add on 325 points. I’d bet the smaller contracts might start around $225. It will deal a blow to the resale market, which is exactly what they’ll want to do.


Yeah $225 makes sense before incentives.  I’d guess something around $15 off for current owners at 200 points putting it at $210 a point.  That seems reasonable to me.  Slightly more than RIV, but not in a different stratosphere.


----------



## Paul Stupin

davidl81 said:


> Yeah $225 makes sense before incentives.  I’d guess something around $15 off for current owners at 200 points putting it at $210 a point.  That seems reasonable to me.  Slightly more than RIV, but not in a different stratosphere.


Agreed. That will drive the resale price down to around $160. Have no idea why people are buying VGF resale now at such inflated prices.


----------



## Sandisw

Paul Stupin said:


> Agreed. That will drive the resale price down to around $160. Have no idea why people are buying VGF resale now at such inflated prices.



I agree with you. It’s insane because it’s the same resort that it was a few years back. VGF has always been pretty stable in the $140 to $160 range. It took a jump when the walkway was announced and then settled back into the $150 to $170 range.

However, right now, everything has jumped up so the increase for VGF isn’t unique which tells me it’s not about the resort as it is the market has gone crazy.


----------



## RamblinWreck

Paul Stupin said:


> The vast majority of demand across DVC lies in studios, and particularly value studios, a fact of which Disney is quite aware, considering that VGF2 is exclusively studios, and DLT is primarily studios. Sure, you’ll have outliers who want to try one and two bedrooms, but as you said it works both ways, plus there will be VGF owners who want to try the new building.
> The point cost for one and two bedrooms is monumentally high, and it’s hard for me to believe that there’s going to be a sudden, massive surge in demand for some of the priciest accommodations at WDW, when the entire new building is designed for value oriented buyers.


I agree there likely won't be a massive surge in demand.

But people who bought maybe at SSR thinking they could get a 1 bedroom at the GF at the 7 month window might be sweating it though. It could easily have enough of an effect on availability to make that much more challenging.

Anyone who owns at VGF should still be fine when trying to book well in advance.


----------



## RamblinWreck

RoseGold said:


> Finally someone on board with me!  We will be right.


My gut reaction was that they would price it high.

But I think I've come around to believing they will price it the exact same as everything else they are selling. Any differentiation will be through incentives (or lack thereof).

Points in the world of DVC are all treated equal. VGF is more expensive to stay at because its point chart is higher than "lesser" resorts.

I don't see any good reason to price them significantly differently from other points in the ecosystem.


----------



## RamblinWreck

CaliAdventurer said:


> As a fairly invested owner of VGF, I’ll be livid if this screws original owners over.  I didn’t pay that much to fight for rooms in the owners window.  We book 1 and 2 beds and so I’m rightfully nervous.  Then again, maybe this is the push I need to sell my contract and get a condo nearby.  The minute you tell me I have to book rooms at my home resort like dining reservations (in the middle of the night, day of) I’m out.


If you own at VGF, I don't see how this would make it challenging for you to book 1 and 2 bedroom accommodations. 

I would only be worried if you like to book standard view 1 bedrooms at the 7 month window and you own elsewhere.


----------



## Sandisw

RamblinWreck said:


> If you own at VGF, I don't see how this would make it challenging for you to book 1 and 2 bedroom accommodations.
> 
> I would only be worried if you like to book standard view 1 bedrooms at the 7 month window and you own elsewhere.



I think the concern is that, just like points for bungalows and cabins, you are adding a lot of new points that come attached to studios. Those new owners are not going to be restricted to booking those so the number of potential owners now competing for 1 and 2 bedrooms will increase.


----------



## RamblinWreck

Sandisw said:


> I think the concern is that, just like points for bungalows and cabins, you are adding a lot of new points that come attached to studios. Those new owners are not going to be restricted to booking those so the number of potential owners now competing for 1 and 2 bedrooms will increase.


Absolutely. I don't think there's any doubt that you're adding some buyers who want 1 bedroom villas, but you're not adding any new 1 bedroom villas.

But the availability of those villas at present is at a point where there is absolutely no competition for them. I don't think you're going to have such a surge in demand that people are fighting for them right when the 11 month window opens up. Probably not even on the most in-demand days of the year.


----------



## dvc lover 1970

davidl81 said:


> Also RIV is currently not selling at a great pace at its current pricing.  It would not be logical for Disney to spend the capital on the VGF2 project, and price it so high it has trouble selling.  If RIV was selling at a very high rate maybe, but RIVs best sales were at a lower price point.  VGF is a better location IMO but asking almost 30% more for it is not going to happen.  It’s never happened in the history of DVC that they released a new resort and had that large of a price increase versus their currently selling resort.


I agree RIV sold better at their lower price point. VGF2 will have only 40 years left. I don't see a lot of new buyers spending over 200 per point for it.


Jelly563 said:


> Value buyers for cheap studio rooms = Yes
> But.... get out your checkbooks, because they are going to make you pay for it. $275pp


No way will they be able to sell for 275. DVC wants to sell their inventory. This is a cheap remodel of an existing building. I think presales start 185 to 225 and the price remains somewhere in that range. Good luck selling higher.it is not worth it if its higher in my opinion. I think we are going to see a few hotel conversions. Easy for disney, fills their resorts and shifts costs to dvc. I would not be surprised if we see a YC or BC conversion at some point where they take a wing of either and convert them to dvc much like wilderness lodge.


----------



## AEA1127

We own at VGF currently and were starting to think about adding more points right as this announcement came out. When we heard this we decided to take a wait and see approach and see what happens. Our family doesn't need the points this year, so not a rush on purchasing just want to do in the near future. 

Does waiting seem like the best plan for now? Figured there was a chance for incentives so holding off could save us money. We have a direct contract with blue card benefits, so if resale prices dropped enough we'd likely go that avenue and get more points.


----------



## Paul Stupin

AEA1127 said:


> We own at VGF currently and were starting to think about adding more points right as this announcement came out. When we heard this we decided to take a wait and see approach and see what happens. Our family doesn't need the points this year, so not a rush on purchasing just want to do in the near future.
> 
> Does waiting seem like the best plan for now? Figured there was a chance for incentives so holding off could save us money. We have a direct contract with blue card benefits, so if resale prices dropped enough we'd likely go that avenue and get more points.


I think waiting is totally the best plan, and will give you two options in several months, both better than buying resale now. Option #1 is to buy direct for a price not much higher than current resale, and be able to use the points at future DVC resorts, and Riviera. Option #2 is to buy resale at a price that could be 20-25% lower than it is now. Unless you’re desperate for the points, it makes zero sense to buy resale now unless, I suppose, you can get a contract for $160 per point.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

There better be booking categories, especially if the new VGF studios have no “ kitchen sink”. I don’t care how much bigger the new studios are supposed to be. That totally downgrades my stay and I will continue to book my original VGF DVC studios exactly at 11 months.


----------



## AEA1127

Paul Stupin said:


> I think waiting is totally the best plan, and will give you two options, both better than buying resale now. Option #1 is to buy direct for a price not much higher than current resale, and be able to use the points at future DVC resorts, and Riviera. Option #2 is to buy resale at a price that could be 20-25% lower than it is now. Unless you’re desperate for the points, it makes zero sense to buy resale now unless, I suppose, you can get a contract for $160 per point.



Thanks! That was what we were thinking but wanted to make sure I'm not missing something. Unless resale drops dramatically, our plan was to buy direct anyways because we'd prefer to have access to all our points at other resorts. BUT if resale dropped in response to this we could shift and go that route for the right amount of savings. I'm dying to have the official information on pricing etc to drop!


----------



## Paul Stupin

BWV Dreamin said:


> There better be booking categories, especially if the new VGF studios have no “ kitchen sink”. I don’t care how much bigger the new studios are supposed to be. That totally downgrades my stay and I will continue to book my original VGF DVC studios exactly at 11 months.


Maybe the new VGF2 studios will come with a Mickey shaped bucket and hose for the ”kitchen,” which can attach to the bathroom sink! 
Actually, I don’t think Disney, a leader in customer surveys, questionnaires, and no doubt focus groups, would proceed with this renovation unless they were absolutely convinced the product would sell. That’s why I think the new studios have got to have some version of a kitchen sink.


----------



## pirate33

Paul Stupin said:


> I think waiting is totally the best plan, and will give you two options in several months, both better than buying resale now. Option #1 is to buy direct for a price not much higher than current resale, and be able to use the points at future DVC resorts, and Riviera. Option #2 is to buy resale at a price that could be 20-25% lower than it is now. Unless you’re desperate for the points, it makes zero sense to buy resale now unless, I suppose, you can get a contract for $160 per point.



I’m in the same situation—wait to buy or not—and have given this a lot of thought.  I firmly believe waiting Is the right thing to do for reasons already explained.


----------



## pirate33

Re the kitchen sink thing (more like a bar sink IMHO), my money is that they will be included because that seems pretty core to marketing the product.  If they are gutting to the studs, which I would expect, then the marginal cost of adding the sinks should be minimal.  However, if they just redecorate the existing rooms then that would change the economics for sure.  The construction period does seem awfully short, though, and that weighs against redecoration v. gutting. Time will tell.


----------



## RamblinWreck

One thing I'm not seeing discussed as much is the annual dues.

Any chance VGF goes from being one of the best deals on annual dues to more like Riviera?


----------



## dvc lover 1970

RamblinWreck said:


> One thing I'm not seeing discussed as much is the annual dues.
> 
> Any chance VGF goes from being one of the best deals on annual dues to more like Riviera?


RIV will always be higher in my opinion because they are a complete DVC resort, and disney gave them a skyline stand, which means part of the skyline fees will be allocated to RIV, how much - do not know, but the fact they put a stand there pretty much says it all, especially since Carribean beach is literally right there


----------



## Sandisw

RamblinWreck said:


> One thing I'm not seeing discussed as much is the annual dues.
> 
> Any chance VGF goes from being one of the best deals on annual dues to more like Riviera?



I don’t think so because dues pay for the operation of the resort.  It may increase some because now the balance between hotel side and DVC side of shared expenses changes.

However, to operate that complex shouldn’t be too different overall.


----------



## DVCsloth

Paul Stupin said:


> Maybe the new VGF2 studios will come with a Mickey shaped bucket and hose for the ”kitchen,” which can attach to the bathroom sink!
> Actually, I don’t think Disney, a leader in customer surveys, questionnaires, and no doubt focus groups, would proceed with this renovation unless they were absolutely convinced the product would sell. That’s why I think the new studios have got to have some version of a kitchen sink.


I have a feeling that DVC is going to make these really nice!


----------



## Theta

.


----------



## zavandor

RamblinWreck said:


> One thing I'm not seeing discussed as much is the annual dues.
> 
> Any chance VGF goes from being one of the best deals on annual dues to more like Riviera?


It's very difficult to predict.
The new building will only be studios. In the old building there are no dedicated studios. 3x studios cost more points to book than a 2BR. So the overall number of points will be slightly higher at the new building, which should bring costs down.
However, the main cost in MF is mousekeeping. Does it take more or less time to clean 3 studios than a 2BR?
3 studios have 3 double beds, 3 sofa beds, 3 pull down beds, 3 bathrooms and 3 kitchen sinks.
One 2BR has 2 or 3 beds (dedicated vs lockoff), 2 or 1 sofa bed, one pull down bed, one full kitchen, 2 bathrooms.
If I have to guess, it takes longer to clean 3 studios, which should bring MF up.
But we don't know if the points will be the same for the studios, so this will likely have the greatest impact. If they cost more points, MF may likely come down and vice versa.

I think overall the impact on MF will be negligible, not enough to bring then in line to the more costly resorts.


----------



## Chia1974

Do they have to show what the new studio looks like/floor plan before they sell?


----------



## Sandisw

Chia1974 said:


> Do they have to show what the new studio looks like/floor plan before they sell?



Have to? Not sure but they have never not had that information available.  And, I don't believe they have even declared any inventory into the association yet so until that happens, they can not sell.

That is why the rumored date of 8/5 doesn't seem possible.  Maybe on 8/5 we will get some new news about the build!


----------



## CarolMN

Chia1974 said:


> Do they have to show what the new studio looks like/floor plan before they sell?


A reasonable person would not buy without AT LEAST that!


----------



## zavandor

CarolMN said:


> A reasonable person would not buy without AT LEAST that!


Since when DVC owners are reasonable people?


----------



## RamblinWreck

Chia1974 said:


> Do they have to show what the new studio looks like/floor plan before they sell?


I would think they would at least show a proposed design. It would be pretty silly not to.


----------



## CarolMN

zavandor said:


> Since when DVC owners are reasonable people?


Says one of those offering financial analyses  & comments re the purchase (which I always read & appreciate).


----------



## RamblinWreck

How long has Aulani been selling for now?

And Riviera is supposed to be the Epcot/HS equivalent of the Grand Floridian.

And they've been listing these points at the exact same price. I think Disney sees value in not upcharging for certain resorts in terms of $ per point, but rather through the points required to stay at different resorts. 


If Disney is going to sell Riviera at the same price point as Aulani, which expires 8 years before Riviera does, what's the logic going to be on selling VGF significantly higher, or higher by even $1 (not counting incentives)?



I just don't see it. What I can see is a bunch of made up new room categories at the VGF with higher point charts than the current DVC building that allow them to sell even more points though. When you keep the price per point lower, it's easier to sell to the people who can't really afford VGF. You can still show them the point charts for Animal Kingdom and say "look how long you can stay in an Animal Kingdom Value Villa!"


----------



## Sandisw

RamblinWreck said:


> How long has Aulani been selling for now?
> 
> And Riviera is supposed to be the Epcot/HS equivalent of the Grand Floridian.
> 
> And they've been listing these points at the exact same price. I think Disney sees value in not upcharging for certain resorts in terms of $ per point, but rather through the points required to stay at different resorts.
> 
> 
> If Disney is going to sell Riviera at the same price point as Aulani, which expires 8 years before Riviera does, what's the logic going to be on selling VGF significantly higher, or higher by even $1 (not counting incentives)?
> 
> 
> 
> I just don't see it. What I can see is a bunch of made up new room categories at the VGF with higher point charts than the current DVC building that allow them to sell even more points though. When you keep the price per point lower, it's easier to sell to the people who can't really afford VGF. You can still show them the point charts for Animal Kingdom and say "look how long you can stay in an Animal Kingdom Value Villa!"



And the raise in minimum purchase…as I have said…allows for this.


----------



## Paul Stupin

RamblinWreck said:


> How long has Aulani been selling for now?
> 
> And Riviera is supposed to be the Epcot/HS equivalent of the Grand Floridian.
> 
> And they've been listing these points at the exact same price. I think Disney sees value in not upcharging for certain resorts in terms of $ per point, but rather through the points required to stay at different resorts.
> 
> 
> If Disney is going to sell Riviera at the same price point as Aulani, which expires 8 years before Riviera does, what's the logic going to be on selling VGF significantly higher, or higher by even $1 (not counting incentives)?
> 
> 
> 
> I just don't see it. What I can see is a bunch of made up new room categories at the VGF with higher point charts than the current DVC building that allow them to sell even more points though. When you keep the price per point lower, it's easier to sell to the people who can't really afford VGF. You can still show them the point charts for Animal Kingdom and say "look how long you can stay in an Animal Kingdom Value Villa!"





Sandisw said:


> And the raise in minimum purchase…as I have said…allows for this.


Exactly!


----------



## peabody58

If the points per night for the new wanna-be deluxe studio is lower, then DW and I wouldn't mind spending some of our BLT points there.  We really enjoyed 3 nights at GFV in a Std 1 BR a few years back, waving to the Monorail while drinking our morning coffee on the balcony.   But we are not buying anymore points, regardless of the price.


----------



## Paul Stupin

peabody58 said:


> If the points per night for the new wanna-be deluxe studio is lower, then DW and I wouldn't mind spending some of our BLT points there.  We really enjoyed 3 nights at GFV in a Std 1 BR a few years back, waving to the Monorail while drinking our morning coffee on the balcony.   But we are not buying anymore points, regardless of the price.


But isn’t 7 month availability somewhat problematic?


----------



## peabody58

Paul Stupin said:


> But isn’t 7 month availability somewhat problematic?


----------



## peabody58

There have been many times when we could have booked GFV at 7 months, but the point miser in me went elsewhere.


----------



## RamblinWreck

peabody58 said:


> There have been many times when we could have booked GFV at 7 months, but the point miser in me went elsewhere.


I think you'd really only have trouble with Standard view studios booking at 7 months. Unless you're traveling during the most competitive windows for DVC rooms.


----------



## Stargazer65

peabody58 said:


> There have been many times when we could have booked GFV at 7 months, but the point miser in me went elsewhere.


Me too!  So many times we've said, "Family, get ready _because_...............................* next Disney trip we're staying at......THE GRAND FLORIDIAN!!!*" 

...and then when it comes time to book:  "Oh look, SSR will only use this many points a day..."


----------



## RoseGold

Here we are six months later, and VGF1 resale is just getting more expensive.  Resale listings holding in the 190s-200s, and so much VGF1 just sitting there!


----------



## nuhusky123

Don’t think resale pricing is a leading indicator of anything. No one knows what vgf2 will be so today it’s just supply and demand or more likely uneducated buyers unawares of vgf2

i believe boardwalk is however a leading indicator of vgf2 pricing and associated incentives. I predict near identical pricing to boardwalk for vgf2


----------



## Sandisw

RoseGold said:


> Here we are six months later, and VGF1 resale is just getting more expensive.  Resale listings holding in the 190s-200s, and so much VGF1 just sitting there!



Which may indicate buyers are deciding it is too high now with VG2 around the corner if the contracts are sitting there.


----------



## DVCsloth

Sandisw said:


> Which may indicate buyers are deciding it is too high now with VG2 around the corner if the contracts are sitting there.


I agree, why would you buy it resale right now for $180 or so when it will be available direct probably a little over $200? Still wish they would have made this a separate condo association. I like the Villas just how they are. Hoping they don't end up walking 1bR like they are doing with studios now.  If they do I guess we will end up doing studios there and moving our 1br stays to our other home CCV. I was thinking of adding on when they started selling VGF2 but probably not going to now. One other thing, I hope they make the VGF2 points chart slightly lower. I don't think I would be as disappointed if they did. I think it would keep some of the pressure off of VGF1. Fingers crossed, I may actually consider an add on then.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

RoseGold said:


> Here we are six months later, and VGF1 resale is just getting more expensive.  Resale listings holding in the 190s-200s, and so much VGF1 just sitting there!



I think more is just sitting in general although haven't been perusing too much.  And brokers might be recommending the higher pricing since VGF can't be bought direct now.


----------



## Royal Consort

KAT4DISNEY said:


> I think more is just sitting in general although haven't been perusing too much.  And brokers might be recommending the higher pricing since VGF can't be bought direct now.



I am following. A lot of contracts are sitting there for a while. Doesn't seem that sellers will budge either. Small contracts in the $220 pp range which I think is ridiculous. I am waiting for direct.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

RoseGold said:


> Here we are six months later, and VGF1 resale is just getting more expensive.  Resale listings holding in the 190s-200s, and so much VGF1 just sitting there!


With all of the prices rising in every area of Disney, it is no surprise contracts are sitting. Don’t let that fool you. Disney will absolutely price the new VGF high. They don’t care how soon it sells out. They love the fact the resale prices are high. Why not buy direct fo a little more? We should know very soon.


----------



## davidl81

Royal Consort said:


> I am following. A lot of contracts are sitting there for a while. Doesn't seem that sellers will budge either. Small contracts in the $220 pp range which I think is ridiculous. I am waiting for direct.


You also have to remember that a lot of resale buyers likely have no idea that VGF2 is even a thing.  All they know is they need/want more points, Disney direct is sold out today, and resale is the only option.


----------



## DKZB

davidl81 said:


> You also have to remember that a lot of resale buyers likely have no idea that VGF2 is even a thing.  All they know is they need/want more points, Disney direct is sold out today, and resale is the only option.



No way I would be paying $180 - $200 right now for resale with VGF2 right around the corner. 

That said, how much would you pay for resale today given the uncertainty?


----------



## davidl81

DKZB said:


> No way I would be paying $180 - $200 right now for resale with VGF2 right around the corner.
> 
> That said, how much would you pay for resale today given the uncertainty?


But if you didn’t know that VGF2 was right around the corner what would you pay?  As I said I would imagine their are a lot of current VGF owners who don’t know VGF2 is happening.


----------



## DKZB

davidl81 said:


> But if you didn’t know that VGF2 was right around the corner what would you pay?  As I said I would imagine their are a lot of current VGF owners who don’t know VGF2 is happening.


I would probably pay as high as $170-$175 as a VGF buyer if VGF2 were not in the picture. In my mind there are a couple pieces of uncertainty that an educated buyer needs to account for:

1. What will Disney sell VGF 2 for direct?
2. How will VGF 2 change secondary market VGF Pricing near term?
3. Will 2 million extra points cause supply/demand for VGF to go lower long term?

The only argument for higher VGF resale prices short term is a Direct pricing on VGF2 at $240-$275 after incentives.


----------



## RoseGold

DKZB said:


> I would probably pay as high as $170-$175 as a VGF buyer if VGF2 were not in the picture.



VGF hasn't been that low for a long time.

https://www.dvcresalemarket.com/blog/dvc-resale-average-sales-prices-for-october-2021/


----------



## BWV Dreamin

DKZB said:


> The only argument for higher VGF resale prices short term is a Direct pricing on VGF2 at $240-$275 after incentives.


Is where I suspect pricing will start around.


----------



## Sandisw

DKZB said:


> I would probably pay as high as $170-$175 as a VGF buyer if VGF2 were not in the picture. In my mind there are a couple pieces of uncertainty that an educated buyer needs to account for:
> 
> 1. What will Disney sell VGF 2 for direct?
> 2. How will VGF 2 change secondary market VGF Pricing near term?
> 3. Will 2 million extra points cause supply/demand for VGF to go lower long term?
> 
> The only argument for higher VGF resale prices short term is a Direct pricing on VGF2 at $240-$275 after incentives.



And, it doesn't make sense for DVD to start VGF that high.  But, having said that, DVD doesn't make decisions that seem to make sense for some of us anyway.  I still think what we will see is a raise of RIV to $210 base price in February and then in March or April, when they announce VGF2 sales, its base price will be around $230/point with incentives that bring both it and RIV very close in price.

I just wish they would announce soon and put all of us here on the boards out of our misery so we can see which camp is closer to its really selling price!!!  LOL


----------



## dvc lover 1970

Glad I bought when I did. I would not buy at today's prices. I would buy a condo instead. These price points are high.


----------



## kandlsutton

RoseGold said:


> VGF hasn't been that low for a long time.
> 
> https://www.dvcresalemarket.com/blog/dvc-resale-average-sales-prices-for-october-2021/


Got a 55pointer for $175 in August. Worth the risk for us since we just want a few nights every other year.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

RoseGold said:


> Here we are six months later, and VGF1 resale is just getting more expensive.  Resale listings holding in the 190s-200s, and so much VGF1 just sitting there!


I don’t think my read of the situation is that it’s getting more expensive. It’s that sellers are greedy and buyers aren’t having it.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

KAT4DISNEY said:


> I think more is just sitting in general although haven't been perusing too much.  And brokers might be recommending the higher pricing since VGF can't be bought direct now.


That’s my read. There’s almost 1100 DVC contracts for sale across all sites right now. In May there were less than 300.

Of the 52 VGF contracts on the market right now, 36 are more than 2 weeks old, 27 are over a month old, and 19 are 2+ months old.

Of the 16 posted 15 are sub $200, and 5 are  $191 or lower.


----------



## pirate33

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> It’s that sellers are greedy and buyers aren’t having it.



I don’t agree with this philosphy.  Current owners are not under an obligation to sell at a price that buyers currently want to pay; i.e., they don’t have to “make a market” if they don’t want to.  It’s perfectly fine for a seller to believe it’s only worth it to me to sell right now for $X, even if no buyer is biting at that price.


----------



## nuhusky123

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> I don’t think my read of the situation is that it’s getting more expensive. It’s that sellers are greedy and buyers aren’t having it.



I agree. Anyone with half a brain will wait for vgf2. Sellers or brokers expecting to get these crazy prices must ride Peter Pan too often


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

pirate33 said:


> I don’t agree with this philosphy.  Current owners are not under an obligation to sell at a price that buyers currently want to pay; i.e., they don’t have to “make a market” if they don’t want to.  It’s perfectly fine for a seller to believe it’s only worth it to me to sell right now for $X, even if no buyer is biting at that price.


Of course but it’s literally a commodity item so pricing significantly above the market means you’ll never sell. It’s wasting the brokers time and resources.


----------



## nuhusky123

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> Of course but it’s literally a commodity item so pricing significantly above the market means you’ll never sell. It’s wasting the brokers time and resources.



I imagine brokers are trying to milk every last $ before gfv2. Feels almost predatory


----------



## Ssplashhmtn

nuhusky123 said:


> I agree. Anyone with half a brain will wait for vgf2. Sellers or brokers expecting to get these crazy prices must ride Peter Pan too often


What’s crazy about current resale prices for VGF?  Purchasing VGF at $200 per point, if I buy enough points for a week’s stay, I’m averaging about $260/night for a studio (including dues and point purchase divided cost across the remaining 43 years).  That compares to about $800 with tax for a hotel room at Grand Floridian.  A studio and a hotel room aren’t 100% apples to apples, but close enough that I don’t consider these VGF prices high at all.


----------



## Matty B13

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> That’s my read. There’s almost 1100 DVC contracts for sale across all sites right now. In May there were less than 300.
> 
> Of the 52 VGF contracts on the market right now, 36 are more than 2 weeks old, 27 are over a month old, and 19 are 2+ months old.
> 
> Of the 16 posted 15 are sub $200, and 5 are  $191 or lower.


I wonder how many of these contracts are owned by brokers who are trying to get out of them now.  Kinda how Zillow bought up a lot of homes expecting to unload them at much higher prices...... now they are closing that department and taking a bath on those homes.


----------



## kilik64

Matty B13 said:


> I wonder how many of these contracts are owned by brokers who are trying to get out of them now.  Kinda how Zillow bought up a lot of homes expecting to unload them at much higher prices...... now they are closing that department and taking a bath on those homes.


Most likely fairly accurate, except when the main one runs a rental arm, you can rent the points and bide your time for the market conditions to be more in your favor. 

Course most of the ones they own seem to mainly come from foreclosures so they typically are getting for a decent amount cheaper PP than the current market rate.


----------



## DVChris

kilik64 said:


> Most likely fairly accurate, except when the main one runs a rental arm, you can rent the points and bide your time for the market conditions to be more in your favor.
> 
> Course most of the ones they own seem to mainly come from foreclosures so they typically are getting for a decent amount cheaper PP than the current market rate.


Do foreclosures go through the ROFR process?


----------



## JETSDAD

DVChris said:


> Do foreclosures go through the ROFR process?


No, they don't.


----------



## RoseGold

DVChris said:


> Do foreclosures go through the ROFR process?



Disney is a frequent buyer in the foreclosure process.


----------



## kilik64

RoseGold said:


> Disney is a frequent buyer in the foreclosure process.


Yup, and in essence that is their ROFR, either bidding enough to buy the foreclosure or letting someone else have it.


----------



## JETSDAD

Disney only bids to their judgment amount so they aren't really competing though.  They credit bid the judgment amount so if that judgment is lower than market value Disney will not be getting it.  If the judgment is greater than market value then Disney will get it because nobody will bid that high. It is in place of their ROFR but they aren't using that to keep prices up at all.


----------



## mort1331

Please correct me if i am wrong or it has beem talked about already and i missed it. Gfv2 being part of the current condo will have an expire sooner then Riv as well. So your also now paying a premium on a resort that will end sooner. 
They alway toot 50 years, but you will only have 41. 
Wondering if they word it different , like when the other '42 resorts came o  board and did not have 50 years left in them.


----------



## Sandisw

mort1331 said:


> Please correct me if i am wrong or it has beem talked about already and i missed it. Gfv2 being part of the current condo will have an expire sooner then Riv as well. So your also now paying a premium on a resort that will end sooner.
> They alway toot 50 years, but you will only have 41.
> Wondering if they word it different , like when the other '42 resorts came o  board and did not have 50 years left in them.



That is correct.  I just can’t imagine it won’t play a role in pricing they set.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

mort1331 said:


> Please correct me if i am wrong or it has beem talked about already and i missed it. Gfv2 being part of the current condo will have an expire sooner then Riv as well. So your also now paying a premium on a resort that will end sooner.
> They alway toot 50 years, but you will only have 41.
> Wondering if they word it different , like when the other '42 resorts came o  board and did not have 50 years left in them.


I dunno. They’re still actively selling Aulani and that has fewer years left than VGF.


----------



## Sandisw

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> I dunno. They’re still actively selling Aulani and that has fewer years left than VGF.



True but AUL is not a WDW resort so it’s competition against RIV is not the same.

I think it’s about pricing and having about 2 million points to sell. Sure, price it high and move it slowly to sell out RIV faster.

But then you have to wonder why do it at all? Just sit on the points you have, use the undeclared rooms at RIV for cash and leave VGF alone.

Just can’t see a situation where they price VGF so much higher than RIV that sales don’t occur.

Of course, we also know that figuring out the strategy of DVD is impossible at times so none of us really know!!!


----------



## davidl81

Sandisw said:


> True but AUL is not a WDW resort so it’s competition against RIV is not the same.
> 
> I think it’s about pricing and having about 2 million points to sell. Sure, price it high and move it slowly to sell out RIV faster.
> 
> But then you have to wonder why do it at all? Just sit on the points you have, use the undeclared rooms at RIV for cash and leave VGF alone.
> 
> Just can’t see a situation where they price VGF so much higher than RIV that sales don’t occur.
> 
> Of course, we also know that figuring out the strategy of DVD is impossible at times so none of us really know!!!


I’m like you, and I can’t see any way DVC prices VGF high to help “spur” RIV sales.  I still think VGF will have the same base price at launch as RIV (I also expect a small RIV base increase right before VGF launch).  And more incentives for RIV than VGF.  Although pre-sale current DVC owners for VGF may get a pretty attractive incentive package.
I also expect VGF to Increase in price pretty quickly after opening because I think demand will be high.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

I want to change my vote lol. I voted same as Riviera but now think it will be ~$10 more.


----------



## RamblinWreck

Is there any indication of when this is actually going to happen?


----------



## davidl81

RamblinWreck said:


> Is there any indication of when this is actually going to happen?


My guide told me best guess is pre sale in January-February time frame.


----------



## JETSDAD

I talked to a guide that guessed next fall for sales because "if there's anything Disney is good at, it's missing deadlines".


----------



## nuhusky123

It’s killing me not knowing the price of gfv. I have addontis bad and keep having to talk myself out of buying Polly resale and that waiting for gfv is the right thing to do

wish Disney would just put us out our misery and make an announcement


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

JETSDAD said:


> I talked to a guide that guessed next fall for sales because "if there's anything Disney is good at, it's missing deadlines".


Absolutely no way. This will be open next summer. Disney is terrible at park construction but they are exceptional at expedited room renovations.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

I wonder if concerns over the new variant Omicron will have an impact on the release date? Travel make take yet another hit. No need to rush to open up sales if occupancy takes a dive.


----------



## nuhusky123

domestic demand for Disney has remained relatively strong during covid, I’d expect most dvc buyers to be domestic. Also the reality is we are going to have variants continue to pose threats, new normal. Unless this becomes covid 1.0 I’d expect gfv to move forward.

I do think international travel is at risk again either through reduced interest or flight restrictions I’d wager fewer international visitors for a while now

all those uk punters who love Disney, may be seeing a delay to their travel plans shortly

i think this further solidifies the notion of selling dvc to international buyers. Why risk buying if you get into anther lockdown. I think for a long time people will vacation closer to home. why Risk a lock down on the other side of the world right now

dvc I am sure know their pool of buyers is now mostly domestic


----------



## nuhusky123

Without the advantage of dvc data, now that I think of it, probably explains why gfv conversion vs new building. Domestic demand is strong enough to sell an existing building but the numbers don’t support a new resort

until Disney is overrun again with Brazilians and brits there will be no new resorts built and no new dvc buildings save the conversions of existing rooms


----------



## Nabas

nuhusky123 said:


> Without the advantage of dvc data, now that I think of it, probably explains why gfv conversion vs new building.


Here is a chart of DVC direct sales at the WDW active resorts, through October 2021:


----------



## nuhusky123

Great chart, doubt this exists but how about data on domestic vs international sales?


----------



## nuhusky123

Nabas said:


> Here is a chart of DVC direct sales at the WDW active resorts, through October 2021:
> 
> View attachment 626469



its really interesting how gfv had a massive spike during the initial sale then sales really fell off to levels below Polly and copper.

im sure this chart weighs heavily on dvc execs on pricing of gfv2. this is actually why I can’t see gfv2 costing more than riv. Riv sales are depressed, gfv1 didn’t have a gang busters sale post initial launch. Overprice gfv2 and you can bet sales will under perform well below that of riv which itself is already underperforming 

those of us excited about gfv2 will create another initial wave of gfv2 sales followed by probably a near identical sales chart albeit at lower levels to account for covid. Call it a month over month sales of gfv2 in the 50k range. If gfv2 does 50,000 units a month that’s 40 months to sell out. lets say month 1 they do 100,000 units but still 40 months or so to sell out is pretty bad and that’s at riv pricing. Over price and gfv2 sits on the market for 50-100 months. No way investors are pleased with that

i expect dvc projections want avg mom sales in the 100,000 range, to achieve that pricing has to be priced accordingly.


----------



## nuhusky123

2023 point charts are out including resort rooms.

resort rooms have 3 categories 

standard, lake and theme park

standard and lake points identical to deluxe studio. Theme park more expensive



https://cdn2.parksmedia.wdprapps.disney.com/media/dvc/catalog/resorts/dvc-resorts/VGF_2023.pdf


----------



## JETSDAD

nuhusky123 said:


> 2023 point charts are out including resort rooms.
> 
> resort rooms have 3 categories
> 
> standard, lake and theme park
> 
> standard and lake points identical to deluxe studio. Theme park more expensive
> 
> 
> 
> https://cdn2.parksmedia.wdprapps.disney.com/media/dvc/catalog/resorts/dvc-resorts/VGF_2023.pdf


I think it's great that they are the same point requirement as regular studios.  There are pros and cons to each so that makes sense. Hoping for 7 month availability!!  lol


----------



## davidl81

nuhusky123 said:


> 2023 point charts are out including resort rooms.
> 
> resort rooms have 3 categories
> 
> standard, lake and theme park
> 
> standard and lake points identical to deluxe studio. Theme park more expensive
> 
> 
> 
> https://cdn2.parksmedia.wdprapps.disney.com/media/dvc/catalog/resorts/dvc-resorts/VGF_2023.pdf


This seems very …….. reasonable


----------



## nuhusky123

I was hoping standard and lake be 1 point less than deluxe but I think this is a good result


----------



## KTownRaider

nuhusky123 said:


> I was hoping standard and lake be 1 point less than deluxe but I think this is a good result


I agree.  1-2 points less would have protected the VGF1 studios since they're about to be outnumbered 4 to 1.  At the same time, I think I've been conditioned to expecting the worst, and this is (thankfully) far from that.


----------



## nuhusky123

I will say I think theme park views are insanely priced. having a view of the theme park to me is not worth the points


----------



## Paul Stupin

KTownRaider said:


> I agree.  1-2 points less would have protected the VGF1 studios since they're about to be outnumbered 4 to 1.  At the same time, I think I've been conditioned to expecting the worst, and this is (thankfully) far from that.


Agreed. Also happy that one bedrooms haven’t really changed.


----------



## nuhusky123

So now points are out when does Disney announce pricing. I’d assume since points are set they must be planning something soon


----------



## Airb330

nuhusky123 said:


> I will say I think theme park views are insanely priced. having a view of the theme park to me is not worth the points


Yeah I didn't want a third view category at all. They are very very high; I predict they'll be the last rooms to go.

Also it feels like more travel periods. I haven't looked at points charts since that debacle a few years ago...with the pandemic we've had plenty so I have just been booking things. But wow, most times we go are really far down on that list!


----------



## Nabas

nuhusky123 said:


> 2023 point charts are out including resort rooms.
> 
> resort rooms have 3 categories
> 
> standard, lake and theme park
> 
> standard and lake points identical to deluxe studio. Theme park more expensive
> 
> 
> 
> https://cdn2.parksmedia.wdprapps.disney.com/media/dvc/catalog/resorts/dvc-resorts/VGF_2023.pdf


Yay!  It looks like they went with my preference.

Quoting my earlier post:



Nabas said:


> Sure, that’s a possibility but VGF2 rooms are larger, so that’s an argument to charge more for VGF2.
> 
> My preferred solution is to do something similar to Jambo/Kidani and have 5 categories of Studios:
> 
> VGF1 Standard View (x points per night)
> VGF2 Standard View (also x points)
> VGF1 Water View (y points)
> VGF2 Water View (also y points)
> VGF2 Theme Park View (z points)
> VGF2 is closer to the main building and quiet pool.
> 
> VGF1 is closer to parking and is easier to drop off and pick up luggage.
> 
> VGF2 rooms are larger and have 2 queen beds.
> 
> VGF1 rooms have sinks and microwaves (I.e. kitchenette).
> 
> By making similar view rooms the same number of points per night, people will book what works best for them rather than book what’s cheapest, which is what happens at every other DVC resort.
> 
> Really, the closest comparison is Jambo and Kidani. Studios at Jambo tend to book first but there are fewer of them.
> 
> My guess is that if the two resorts are the same number of points, VGF1 Studios will book first.  But this primarily is because there are only 47 VGF1 Studios.
> 
> You don’t hear much complaining from AKV owners.  Emulating it just seems the way to go.


----------



## Sandisw

Airb330 said:


> Yeah I didn't want a third view category at all. They are very very high; I predict they'll be the last rooms to go.
> 
> Also it feels like more travel periods. I haven't looked at points charts since that debacle a few years ago...with the pandemic we've had plenty so I have just been booking things. But wow, most times we go are really far down on that list!



There have been 7 travel periods for the last few years.


----------



## mort1331

TP will go b4 LV,,,just like BLT views.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

mort1331 said:


> TP will go b4 LV,,,just like BLT views.



 Very likely since there ought to be fewer of them.  Standard view 1st then TPV and then LV. 

I think it's a good decision to make the requirements identical.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

davidl81 said:


> This seems very …….. reasonable


As will be the pricing


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

nuhusky123 said:


> So now points are out when does Disney announce pricing. I’d assume since points are set they must be planning something soon


I would imagine we will have pricing early in 2022. Potentially very early.


----------



## DVCsloth

Just what I didn't want to see. VGF2 same as VGF 1 and really high TPV.


----------



## nuhusky123

Yeah I’d expect news sooner than later now


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

I think it’s weird that a Contemporary Resort view sorry “theme park” view  costs extra points.


----------



## nuhusky123

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> I think it’s weird that a Contemporary Resort view sorry “theme park” view  costs extra points. View attachment 627829


im not surprised but I wouldn’t pay for it. I would prefer to save my points

the only view worth paying for is savanna at akl


----------



## nuhusky123

from another thread but the very last line of 2022 point chart in fine print

The new Resort Studio accommodations will be available for booking in Spring 2022.

this means sale will start sooner than later


----------



## Lorana

JETSDAD said:


> I think it's great that they are the same point requirement as regular studios.  There are pros and cons to each so that makes sense. Hoping for 7 month availability!!  lol


I think they are priced that way for VGF2 sales; keeping them the same is actually the easy way of not ruffling feathers in either direction.

But they ARE separate booking categories, and I recall how DVC positioned THVs at SSR during sales, and then shifted the point charts soon as they sold out.  It'll be interesting to see if they remain the same, or if we'll see some big point chart changes once it sells out.


----------



## Royal Consort

Our trip in Nov at VGF now costs 19 more points a week. Ouch that hurts.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

Lorana said:


> I think they are priced that way for VGF2 sales; keeping them the same is actually the easy way of not ruffling feathers in either direction.
> 
> But they ARE separate booking categories, and I recall how DVC positioned THVs at SSR during sales, and then shifted the point charts soon as they sold out.  It'll be interesting to see if they remain the same, or if we'll see some big point chart changes once it sells out.



The same thing crossed my mind about point reallocations which gets into the POS and if they are allowed to shift points across room types or not.  (setting aside that they have which is different than if they could/should have).   I hope the new building is very popular otherwise there will be a stink if they start shifting points off of it to the existing building.


----------



## Lorana

KAT4DISNEY said:


> The same thing crossed my mind about point reallocations which gets into the POS and if they are allowed to shift points across room types or not.  (setting aside that they have which is different than if they could/should have).   I hope the new building is very popular otherwise there will be a stink if they start shifting points off of it to the existing building.


I am in the camp of "no, they are not allowed to."  I'd have to look it up, but the POS has language around "the total number of Home Resort Vacation Points existing within a given Unit may not be increased or decreased because of any reallocation."  I'll find the exact word, but the POS strongly implies they cannot shift points between unit types (different views within the same unit type, yes).  I just think they will try again and see if they can get away with it, since they've done so in the past.


----------



## hhisc16

2022 VGF chart was redone as well...


----------



## Sandisw

Lorana said:


> I am in the camp of "no, they are not allowed to."  I'd have to look it up, but the POS has language around "the total number of Home Resort Vacation Points existing within a given Unit may not be increased or decreased because of any reallocation."  I'll find the exact word, but the POS strongly implies they cannot shift points between unit types (different views within the same unit type, yes).  I just think they will try again and see if they can get away with it, since they've done so in the past.



Units, though, are defined differently than vacation home.  So, in theory, they can definitely shift when a unit consistent of more than one room type.  However, there is debate if that is based on sales vs point charts for stays and total for the resort.

Some believe that it can't happen that way and some feel its about the totals. I have mentioned I have not done enough research on it to have a strong opinion, but my initial though is they can use total resort points for stays at the resort.  But, these will be different units from the original building so that adds another layer of complexity to the situation and mimics what happened with the treehouses.


----------



## JETSDAD

From what I have read, points can be moved around within a Unit (this may consist of multiple Vacation Homes or not depending on the Unit) but the total points within the Unit must remain the same.  So with the VGF expansion, they really wouldn't be able to move anything around between different size units other than what they can already do for the existing resort.  If Units in the new building contain different view categories (which I doubt) then they could potentially move points around between the views but otherwise they should only be able to move points around within the given Units. This is why I also wouldn't be concerned as a Poly owner about Bungalow points somehow being shifted over to Studios because I believe that each Bungalow is its own Unit (I would have to double check that on the Condo drawings but I think that's what I recall seeing).


----------



## RoseGold

The point chart released yesterday surprised me.  Equal to existing studios plus a new theme park view with a slight surcharge!

This is an excellent product at a reasonable chart. Looks like we are on track for $275 IMO.  Maybe higher.  DVC can sell the Jiminy out of this.


----------



## davidl81

RoseGold said:


> The point chart released yesterday surprised me.  Equal to existing studios plus a new theme park view with a slight surcharge!
> 
> This is an excellent product at a reasonable chart. Looks like we are on track for $275 IMO.  Maybe higher.  DVC can sell the Jiminy out of this.


What on earth makes you think $275pp is in the realm of reality when the other active resorts are priced at $201pp with various levels of discounts on top of that?  All the while the sales at those resorts has been fairly poor over the past year.  It’s not like they are selling RIV like hot cakes at $201, and sure VGF will be more desirable, but to price it at a 37% premium (just in base pricing) is something DVC has never ever done in its history.


----------



## RoseGold

davidl81 said:


> What on earth makes you think $275pp is in the realm of reality when the other active resorts are priced at $201pp with various levels of discounts on top of that?



Resale is holding in the 180-190, and resale is the market speaking.  Disney has always held its 70-ish point spread.  Add a little to take off for incentives, and here we are at $275.

If resale jumps, which it might with this awesome chart, pricing could go even higher.  Resale in the next few months will be voting with your wallet.


----------



## nuhusky123

Resale really will have zero bearing on direct for a sold out resort

resale will plummet once direct sales go on, right now there is no supply so price can be high


----------



## RoseGold

nuhusky123 said:


> Resale really will have zero bearing on direct for a sold out resort
> 
> resale will plummet once direct sales go on, right now there is no supply so price can be high



VGF won't be sold out anymore.  Of course resale impacts value.  Resale is market value.

Right now, there's plenty of supply, more than when I bought in summer 2020.  There's no resale firesale on VGF, and I don't see why there would be with this awesome chart.  This is great news for VGF.  I expected DVC to pump up this chart, I was worried Disney was building a bunch of tiny bungalows.  I was pleasantly surprised, and others might be as well.  The market will speak for itself in the next few months.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

Sandisw said:


> Units, though, are defined differently than vacation home.  So, in theory, they can definitely shift when a unit consistent of more than one room type.  However, there is debate if that is based on sales vs point charts for stays and total for the resort.
> 
> Some believe that it can't happen that way and some feel its about the totals. I have mentioned I have not done enough research on it to have a strong opinion, but my initial though is they can use total resort points for stays at the resort.  But, these will be different units from the original building so that adds another layer of complexity to the situation and mimics what happened with the treehouses.



Units have tended to vary a lot though in declarations which means no reallocation between unit sizes could be done.  So it has to go back to a base of actual villa size unit which was outlined in sales for years and years as the basis.  As we've seen from some long time members it was even written out that way in sales material.


----------



## Sandisw

RoseGold said:


> Resale is holding in the 180-190, and resale is the market speaking.  Disney has always held its 70-ish point spread.  Add a little to take off for incentives, and here we are at $275.
> 
> If resale jumps, which it might with this awesome chart, pricing could go even higher.  Resale in the next few months will be voting with your wallet.



Sorry, but if Disney decides to price the new points at $220, those resale prices will take a dive. There has been no evidence, ever, that DVD uses resale prices to decide on new pricing for new rooms.   They have to sell a lot of new points...that is different than holding a small percentage of points against resale value and keeping the spread.

Obviously, neither one of us knows what will happen, but normal DVD practices, the fact that they will be selling other resorts, does not support the notion they will keep this that high to start.


----------



## Sandisw

KAT4DISNEY said:


> Units have tended to vary a lot though in declarations which means no reallocation between unit sizes could be done.  So it has to go back to a base of actual villa size unit which was outlined in sales for years and years as the basis.  As we've seen from some long time members it was even written out that way in sales material.



That is true.  As I said, there seems to be a difference between points for sale...its a deeded unit...vs. how they are put on the points chart and spread about the total resort. Those are two different things and something I have on my list of things to research and learn more about but just have not done it yet.  It may or may not be the same.


----------



## nuhusky123

RoseGold said:


> VGF won't be sold out anymore.  Of course resale impacts value.  Resale is market value.
> 
> Right now, there's plenty of supply, more than when I bought in summer 2020.  There's no resale firesale on VGF, and I don't see why there would be with this awesome chart.  This is great news for VGF.  I expected DVC to pump up this chart, I was worried Disney was building a bunch of tiny bungalows.  I was pleasantly surprised, and others might be as well.  The market will speak for itself in the next few months.



this is basic economics. Right now the supply is finite, as in it cannot grow. THere are no new points for sale today and the only points for sale are resale there for the price is artificially high and the seller can set whatever price they see fit. If someone is willing to pay that price then that is what sellers may sell it for

when 2,000,000 new points enter the market, supply will be increased by 2,000,000. With an increase of such a size this will under the laws of economics decrease the value of existing points thereby decreasing the cost of each point

this is why you cannot look at the cost of resale today as any leading indicator to price in the future. Disney may set their price at $300 or $200 or somewhere between but price will not be driven by resale price today


----------



## RoseGold

Sandisw said:


> Sorry, but if Disney decides to price the new points at $220, those resale prices will take a dive. There has been no evidence, ever, that DVD uses resale prices to decide on new pricing for new rooms.



There's evidence all the time as DVC sets pricing for "sold out" resorts.  They keep the spread consistently for all the resorts.  But sure, if Disney decides to set VGF at $220 because they are on pixie dust, then the resale price will go down.  Heck, I'd buy direct at that.


----------



## nuhusky123

RoseGold said:


> There's evidence all the time as DVC sets pricing for "sold out" resorts.  They keep the spread consistently for all the resorts.  But sure, if Disney decides to set VGF at $220 because they are on pixie dust, then the resale price will go down.  Heck, I'd buy direct at that.



again sold out resort. Supply is limited therefore price is easier to control supply is about to explode. It could take Disney years to sell out gfv2 if they only sell 50,000 points a month which is pretty much what riv is doing


----------



## Sandisw

RoseGold said:


> There's evidence all the time as DVC sets pricing for "sold out" resorts.  They keep the spread consistently for all the resorts.  But sure, if Disney decides to set VGF at $220 because they are on pixie dust, then the resale price will go down.  Heck, I'd buy direct at that.



For sold out resorts, absolutely agree with you there.  But, these new rooms being added no longer makes VGF a sold out resort.  It will be a resort back in active sales and cant see any reason why that wont be used for DVD to set the overall price.

I just cant see any situation in which they apply the strategy used for pricing a sold out resort to determine the price for a new resort.   Who would have thought prior to the pandemic we would have ever seen incentives for a place like BWV?


----------



## RoseGold

nuhusky123 said:


> this is basic economics. Right now the supply is finite, as in it cannot grow. THere are no new points for sale today and the only points for sale are resale there for the price is artificially high and the seller can set whatever price they see fit. If someone is willing to pay that price then that is what sellers may sell it for



BLT is also in the 180-190s, and Poly is 190-200s.  There's no way DVC is going to take a $30 premium for direct points.  DVC is competing with itself in the resale market, and they are in no hurry to sell through this, because they have nothing else planned.

If this thing opens at 220, I'm going to need the name of someone's guide.


----------



## davidl81

RoseGold said:


> There's evidence all the time as DVC sets pricing for "sold out" resorts.  They keep the spread consistently for all the resorts.  But sure, if Disney decides to set VGF at $220 because they are on pixie dust, then the resale price will go down.  Heck, I'd buy direct at that.


I mean isn’t the entire point that DVC will price it at a price point that people will pay for it?  And even look at RIV right now, resale is about $155 (with the restrictions) and direct is $201 and down to like $180 with incentives.  So that’s only a $25-$30 gap.


----------



## RoseGold

davidl81 said:


> And even look at RIV right now, resale is about $155 (with the restrictions)



RIV resale is handful of contracts.  BLT/Poly/VGF resale are all holding in the 190s with a lot changing hands.


----------



## nuhusky123

RoseGold said:


> BLT is also in the 180-190s, and Poly is 190-200s.  There's no way DVC is going to take a $30 premium for direct points.  DVC is competing with itself in the resale market, and they are in no hurry to sell through this, because they have nothing else planned.
> 
> If this thing opens at 220, I'm going to need the name of someone's guide.


All sold out resorts. supply is finite for ALL of those


----------



## JETSDAD

RoseGold said:


> RIV resale is handful of contracts.  BLT/Poly/VGF resale are all holding in the 190s.


BLT and Poly aren't in the 190's.  They're averaging around $170.


----------



## nuhusky123

RoseGold said:


> RIV resale is handful of contracts.  BLT/Poly/VGF resale are all holding in the 190s with a lot changing hands.


Riv is the only resort in your list with supply. Resale is low price point and where gfv will end up

blt.poly.vgf sold out resorts with ZERO supply


----------



## RoseGold

nuhusky123 said:


> All sold out resorts. supply is finite for ALL of those



Supply is finite for all DVC points, and for swampland in Florida.  That's about 10.2M points, and VGF2 will be maybe 1.5M in the same category, maybe literally the same category as a huge amount of resale.


----------



## nuhusky123

RoseGold said:


> Supply is finite for all DVC points, and for swampland in Florida.  That's about 10.2M points, and VGF2 will be maybe 1.5M in the same category, maybe literally the same category as a huge amount of resale.



no rose thats not how economics works. Riv has supply, gfv will have supply in the form of points to sell

when those points are sold supply will be exhausted. now that said as supply dwindles prices can change and increase but with extensive supply prices must reflect realistic price points to meet supply and demand

price too low and demand is too high. price too high and demand is too low


----------



## RoseGold

RoseGold said:


> If this thing opens at 220, I'm going to need the name of someone's guide.



Scratch that.  If this thing opens at 220, I'm going to buy more resale in the 150s again.


----------



## davidl81

RoseGold said:


> Scratch that.  If this thing opens at 220, I'm going to buy more resale in the 150s again.


There is not a $70 gap between resale and direct!  RIV is not constantly selling for $130pp on resale (and RIV direct can be had at $180 or so direct).  It sells for about 150-155.  And that is even with RIV having restricted resale.  You are fixated on this $70 gap that is not a hard rule.  Some sold out resorts sure are at $70, but the active ones are not when you take into account incentives.


----------



## JETSDAD

davidl81 said:


> There is not a $70 gap between resale and direct!  RIV is not constantly selling for $130pp on resale (and RIV direct can be had at $180 or so direct).  It sells for about 150-155.  And that is even with RIV having restricted resale.  You are fixated on this $70 gap that is not a hard rule.  Some sold out resorts sure are at $70, but the active ones are not when you take into account incentives.


You mean there aren't Aulani contracts coming up at $60-70/pt right now?


----------



## RoseGold

davidl81 said:


> RIV is not constantly selling for $130pp on resale (and RIV direct can be had at $180 or so direct). It sells for about 150-155.



RIV resale is a few contracts, and yea, the spread is low.  IMO, the reason for that is the resale restrictions, which makes direct less appealing, and that the price jump for RIV most predicted hasn't happened.  Pick any other resort and Disney holds the spread.  Well, except poor Aulani, but I'm not supposed to talk about that.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

Sandisw said:


> That is true.  As I said, there seems to be a difference between points for sale...its a deeded unit...vs. how they are put on the points chart and spread about the total resort. Those are two different things and something I have on my list of things to research and learn more about but just have not done it yet.  It may or may not be the same.



On one rainy day during 2020 I did some hunting down of the units we own in.  This was thumbing thru lots of declarations and I didn't note a single resort that the units declared were all identical.


----------



## Lorana

Sandisw said:


> As I said, there seems to be a difference between points for sale...its a deeded unit...vs. how they are put on the points chart and spread about the total resort.


I might be misunderstanding what you mean here, but there should be no difference at all.  The POS makes it clear that (1) our points represent our % ownership in the resort, and (2) point charts (ie, "point price to book a room") represent the total cost of booking all rooms in the resort in a given year.  Thus, sales points = total points on charts.  That was the whole reason Disney has had to amend it's point charts... three times now in the past few years?  Because they kept trying to make changes that would inflate the total # of points on the point charts beyond the total points of the resort (beyond the normal calendar changes) and owners noticed and raised it as an issue.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

RoseGold said:


> There's evidence all the time as DVC sets pricing for "sold out" resorts.  They keep the spread consistently for all the resorts.  But sure, if Disney decides to set VGF at $220 because they are on pixie dust, then the resale price will go down.  Heck, I'd buy direct at that.



Historically the best sales tool for a direct purchase is that the price difference to resale at that resort is close or the same.  DVC will want to sell these points vs when they have a sold out resort that they really don't want to sell so they price it high enough to make it somewhat worth their while.

If VGF is priced in that $270-$280 mark then IMO it'll only be done because 1 - they want to sell Riviera  or 2 - they've raised Riviera to match it.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

Lorana said:


> I might be misunderstanding what you mean here, but there should be no difference at all.  The POS makes it clear that (1) our points represent our % ownership in the resort, and (2) point charts (ie, "point price to book a room") represent the total cost of booking all rooms in the resort in a given year.  Thus, sales points = total points on charts.  That was the whole reason Disney has had to amend it's point charts... three times now in the past few years?  Because they kept trying to make changes that would inflate the total # of points on the point charts beyond the total points of the resort (beyond the normal calendar changes) and owners noticed and raised it as an issue.



DVC managed to hit on a couple of issues with their reallocations attempts.   One as you mention is that they were increasing, sometimes substantially, the points required to book a resort compared to what was sold.  But a second question was if they could do something like allocate points from 2BR's to 1BR's etc which they also did.  Several people including myself do not feel that is allowable either.  They can shift they points within studios themselves or 1BR's themselves but not villa size to villa size.  The POS states units and that's where looking at the declarations of units starts coming up as they tend to be a combination of 2BR's, dedicated studios and 1BR's if the resort has them and then GV's or Cabins/bungalows thrown in.


----------



## JETSDAD

KAT4DISNEY said:


> DVC managed to hit on a couple of issues with their reallocations attempts.   One as you mention is that they were increasing, sometimes substantially, the points required to book a resort compared to what was sold.  But a second question was if they could do something like allocate points from 2BR's to 1BR's etc which they also did.  Several people including myself do not feel that is allowable either.  They can shift they points within studios themselves or 1BR's themselves but not villa size to villa size.  The POS states units and that's where looking at the declarations of units starts coming up as they tend to be a combination of 2BR's, dedicated studios and 1BR's if the resort has them and then GV's or Cabins/bungalows thrown in.


I think they can move between room sizes as long as the entire unit still stays within the points for the given unit.  That can get very tricky of course especially when units are made up of differing groupings of room sizes.  This also requires a resort where units do have different room sizes within them.


----------



## davidl81

RoseGold said:


> RIV resale is a few contracts, and yea, the spread is low.  IMO, the reason for that is the resale restrictions, which makes direct less appealing, and that the price jump for RIV most predicted hasn't happened.  Pick any other resort and Disney holds the spread.  Well, except poor Aulani, but I'm not supposed to talk about that.


So RIV has a smaller gap of resale to direct because RIV resale points are restricted?  That makes 0 sense.  If anything the restrictions would make resale points significantly less valuable than direct points and only increase the spread in cost between resale and direct, not shrink it.
And I just bought Aulani direct points for $133 pp.  Resale is at 125-140.  Your $70 gap is not at all consistent at active resorts.  You can’t use sold out resorts as your example as DVC prices those very high because of the very limited inventory.


----------



## RoseGold

davidl81 said:


> So RIV has a smaller gap of resale to direct because RIV resale points are restricted? That makes 0 sense. If anything the restrictions would make resale points significantly less valuable than direct points and only increase the spread in cost between resale and direct, not shrink it.



Plenty of people have had doubts or even refused to buy RIV direct because of the restrictions.  So, yea, buying it direct is a different thing.  And, well, poor Aulani...

Who cares about the active resorts.  VGF isn't in the category of struggling Aulani and locked-down RIV.  It's flagship, competing with monorail, because that's what it is.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

JETSDAD said:


> I think they can move between room sizes as long as the entire unit still stays within the points for the given unit.  That can get very tricky of course especially when units are made up of differing groupings of room sizes.  This also requires a resort where units do have different room sizes within them.



Agreed and that's the issue.  I haven't run across a resort that has the exact same villa allocation in all units.  Nor have I looked at them all so it might exist but it doesn't at BWV, VWL and BLT nor do I think it exists at VGF but am not 100%.


----------



## Lorana

JETSDAD said:


> I think they can move between room sizes as long as the entire unit still stays within the points for the given unit.  That can get very tricky of course especially when units are made up of differing groupings of room sizes.  This also requires a resort where units do have different room sizes within them.





KAT4DISNEY said:


> Agreed and that's the issue.  I haven't run across a resort that has the exact same villa allocation in all units.  Nor have I looked at them all so it might exist but it doesn't at BWV, VWL and BLT nor do I think it exists at VGF but am not 100%.


I have obviously not done a deep dive of this, but I don't think they can feasibly allocate among villa types simply because every unit is made of a different combination of villa types, and so making a shift between villa types is going to affect each unit differently.  I could be wrong about this, of course, but it does feel like a bit of a bait-and-switch to sell a resort with a specific # of points allocated per year to studios (for example) and then years later, decide to "off-load" a bunch of points from 2BRs to increase the points allocated to studios.  And maybe that's not _illegal_, and maybe it doesn't technical violate the POS (though I feel like the intention of the wording is that it is not permissible), but it certainly falls into _immoral _and _not in the best interest of owners, _in my mind, and per the POS, changes are supposed to be made in our interest.  Do FL Timeshare laws have anything to say about this topic?


----------



## RoseGold

Lorana said:


> I could be wrong about this, of course, but it does feel like a bit of a bait-and-switch to sell a resort with a specific # of points allocated per year to studios (for example) and then years later, decide to "off-load" a bunch of points from 2BRs to increase the points allocated to studios. And maybe that's not _illegal_, and maybe it doesn't technical violate the POS (though I feel like the intention of the wording is that it is not permissible), but it certainly falls into _immoral _and _not in the best interest of owners, _in my mind, and per the POS, changes are supposed to be made in our interest. Do FL Timeshare laws have anything to say about this topic?



I thought they could?  Like how the OKW GVs have been going up and up.


----------



## JETSDAD

RoseGold said:


> I thought they could?  Like how the OKW GVs have been going up and up.


They haven't been going up and up.


----------



## Sandisw

Lorana said:


> I might be misunderstanding what you mean here, but there should be no difference at all.  The POS makes it clear that (1) our points represent our % ownership in the resort, and (2) point charts (ie, "point price to book a room") represent the total cost of booking all rooms in the resort in a given year.  Thus, sales points = total points on charts.  That was the whole reason Disney has had to amend it's point charts... three times now in the past few years?  Because they kept trying to make changes that would inflate the total # of points on the point charts beyond the total points of the resort (beyond the normal calendar changes) and owners noticed and raised it as an issue.



What you own never changes, that is true.  It’s a % of a unit, not the resort though as in the case with VGF now.  More points will change % ownership across the entire resort.  It’s also why people can have the same number of points but the % is different.  When I owned by 150 BWV points, my deeded interest was actually different because the actual unit was a different size.

Since owners are not limited in a points based timeshare to staying in the exact unit your points belong to so, it is more about every unit across the entire resort having a total number of points when it comes to how to book all the rooms,

Once sold, it doesn’t really matter if the studio is 10 points a night and the 1 bedroom is 20 points a night or they change it and make it 13 and 17…it still adds to 30 points, which is how it was sold and deeded.

So, they can’t sell more than 30 points total for those two units, but I have not found in my limited research anything that says it has to stay 20 and 10.

Thar was the point I was making in reference to shifting points across room size.. So, once the VGf2 points are added to the same resort as VGF1, they may have the ability, like they did with the treehouses, to shift points between the two buildings


----------



## JETSDAD

Sandisw said:


> What you own never changes, that is true.  But, owners are not limited in a points based timeshare to staying in the exact unit your points belong to so it is about every unit across the entire resort having a total number of points to book all the rooms,
> 
> Once sold, it doesn’t really matter if the studio is 10 points a night and the 1 bedroom is 20 points a night or they change it and make it 13 and 17…it still adds to 30 points, which is how it was sold and deeded.
> 
> So, they can’t sell more than 30 points total for those two units, but I have not found in my limited research anything that says it has to stay 20 and 10.
> 
> Thar was the point I was making in reference to shifting points across room size.. So, once the VGf2 points are added to the same resort as VGF1, they may have the ability, like they did with the treehouses, to shift points between the two buildings


But those would be different units and the points within each unit aren't supposed to change (yes, they have and continue to do that).


----------



## Sandisw

Sandisw said:


> What you own never changes, that is true.  But, owners are not limited in a points based timeshare to staying in the exact unit your points belong to so it is about every unit across the entire resort having a total number of points to book all the rooms,
> 
> Once sold, it doesn’t really matter if the studio is 10 points a night and the 1 bedroom is 20 points a night or they change it and make it 13 and 17…it still adds to 30 points, which is how it was sold and deeded.
> 
> So, they can’t sell more than 30 points total for those two units, but I have not found in my limited research anything that says it has to stay 20 and 10.
> 
> Thar was the point I was making in reference to shifting points across room size.. So, once the VGf2 points are added to the same resort as VGF1, they may have the ability, like they did with the treehouses, to shift points between the two buildings





JETSDAD said:


> But those would be different units and the points within each unit aren't supposed to change (yes, they have and continue to do that).



But, that is what I am not 100% sure of In all of this.  They can’t change in terms of what has been assigned for sale.  But as my example shows, changing where they are assigned for booking doesn’t change the totals in the end.

I admit I have not done enough to find a clear cut answer within FL timeshare law, etc, but one aspect of it does discuss total points for sale and now it needs to be determined.

And, yes, the POS discusses up and down having to balance, but again, not convinced there is enough info to say for sure that means no crossing of buildings or units when creating the charts.

The good news with the 2023 charts is they have now clustered Easter back into flopping between two seasons, like it always did when there were 5 travel periods.  That makes what happened in 2022 charts less likely to occur again.


----------



## DVCsloth

Not very happy with Disney adding this to the same condo association. Not sure how they can get away with making such a drastic change to the overall balance of the resort.
I'm sure we'll make the best of it or sell our points if becomes too difficult to book 1 BR.


----------



## JETSDAD

DVCsloth said:


> Not very happy with Disney adding this to the same condo association. Not sure how they can get away with making such a drastic change to the overall balance of the resort.
> I'm sure we'll make the best of it or sell our points if becomes too difficult to book 1 BR.


I can't see many people buying VGF to specifically book 1BR's when they are already easy to book for non-owners there at 7 months. If I wanted to book 1BR's at VGF I would just buy cheaper points elsewhere.


----------



## DVCsloth

JETSDAD said:


> I can't see many people buying VGF to specifically book 1BR's when they are already easy to book for non-owners there at 7 months. If I wanted to book 1BR's at VGF I would just buy cheaper points elsewhere.


Pre Covid 1 BR standard view were not easy to book at 7 months especially early December. The resort is going to be way out of balance adding 2 million Studio points.


----------



## Sandisw

DVCsloth said:


> Not very happy with Disney adding this to the same condo association. Not sure how they can get away with making such a drastic change to the overall balance of the resort.
> I'm sure we'll make the best of it or sell our points if becomes too difficult to book 1 BR.



They expressly have the right to expand a resort as well as never build all that is planned...what happened with VB.  I do agree it changes the dynamic of things for those who bought originally knowing it was a small resort.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out but I agree it is going to put pressure on the 1 and 2 bedrooms.  However, with more studios, some owners who were forced into the 1 bedrooms because studios were gone have more options, so maybe the increased pressure will be offset with those going for the studios and it won't be so bad.


----------



## Paul Stupin

RoseGold said:


> The point chart released yesterday surprised me.  Equal to existing studios plus a new theme park view with a slight surcharge!
> 
> This is an excellent product at a reasonable chart. Looks like we are on track for $275 IMO.  Maybe higher.  DVC can sell the Jiminy out of this.


Not sure how you're equating a reasonable point chart with a monumentally high potential per point cost. But what if neither of us are right? What if the price is in the middle? (But I don't think it will be!)


----------



## Paul Stupin

RoseGold said:


> Plenty of people have had doubts or even refused to buy RIV direct because of the restrictions.  So, yea, buying it direct is a different thing.  And, well, poor Aulani...
> 
> Who cares about the active resorts.  VGF isn't in the category of struggling Aulani and locked-down RIV.  It's flagship, competing with monorail, because that's what it is.


Would it be possible to at least slightly reduce the nonstop negativity re: Aulani? Of course everyone is entitled to express their opinion, but I've found that, for me, support and enthusiasm on these boards is always more appreciated. Maybe just start an anti Aulani thread, so people who are interested can read?


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

Sandisw said:


> , they may have the ability, like they did with the treehouses, to shift points between the two buildings



Don't confuse a case of DVC doing something with having the legal ability to do it.  I'd say it's just a case of nobody bringing a legal challenge.  Without something in the POS, which is there, it would allow them to do what you are referencing with VGF.  Add on additional units, make them different and higher in points and then shift points to the existing rooms.  It benefits nobody except themselves in sales and is harmful to existing owners.


----------



## Sandisw

KAT4DISNEY said:


> Don't confuse a case of DVC doing something with having the legal ability to do it.  I'd say it's just a case of nobody bringing a legal challenge.  Without something in the POS, which is there, it would allow them to do what you are referencing with VGF.  Add on additional units, make them different and higher in points and then shift points to the existing rooms.  It benefits nobody except themselves in sales and is harmful to existing owners.



That is why I said I can't say one way or the other if what they did is legal or not.  I have not done enough research to form a definite conclusion.  It may or may not have been legal in the way it was handled with the treehouses. It may very well be that it wasn't challenged heavy enough.  However, I personally don't have enough information to say it should not have been done.


----------



## ScubaTime

when VGF2 opens will Disney offer guaranteed week options with direct sales? Just shopping around for some guaranteed week contracts but if VGF2 has them available when they launch we might go direct


----------



## Sandisw

ScubaTime said:


> when VGF2 opens will Disney offer guaranteed week options with direct sales? Just shopping around for some guaranteed week contracts but if VGF2 has them available when they launch we might go direct



I would assume so as the POS will be the same one as VGF1...they sold them there (and are selling them at RIV) when it went on sale the first time.


----------



## DVChris

ScubaTime said:


> when VGF2 opens will Disney offer guaranteed week options with direct sales? Just shopping around for some guaranteed week contracts but if VGF2 has them available when they launch we might go direct


My CM told me that there is a limit on how many GW they can sell for each week (he wouldn't say how many). When I asked about a GW for CCV last month, each of the 4 weeks that I asked about were available. I suggest checking availability for the particular week(s) you are interested in with Disney to help you decide.


----------



## Sandisw

DVChris said:


> My CM told me that there is a limit on how many GW they can sell for each week (he wouldn't say how many). When I asked about a GW for CCV last month, each of the 4 weeks that I asked about were available. I suggest checking availability for the particular week(s) you are interested in with Disney to help you decide.



They are capped at 35% of the rooms for fixed weeks.  So, no more of that can be sold for any given week.  Now, with VGF, some weeks have already been sold so that will most likely play a role in how many are actually available for certain weeks in the new rooms.


----------



## CarolynFH

Sandisw said:


> They are capped at 35% of the rooms for fixed weeks.  So, no more of that can be sold for any given week.  Now, with VGF, some weeks have already been sold so that will most likely play a role in how many are actually available for certain weeks in the new rooms.


Reaching the 35% limit for Lake View Deluxe Studio week 42 wouldn’t affect their ability to sell Lake View Resort Studio week 42, though. The limit is per room type per week, since the purchase contract specifies both of those parameters.


----------



## Sandisw

CarolynFH said:


> Reaching the 35% limit for Lake View Deluxe Studio week 42 wouldn’t affect their ability to sell Lake View Resort Studio week 42, though. The limit is per room type per week, since the purchase contract specified both of those parameters.



Great point!  I wasn't thinking about the fact that these are resort studios in relation to the fixed week.  I was just thinking about views!!!


----------



## Lorana

Sandisw said:


> What you own never changes, that is true.  It’s a % of a unit, not the resort though as in the case with VGF now.  More points will change % ownership across the entire resort.  It’s also why people can have the same number of points but the % is different.  When I owned by 150 BWV points, my deeded interest was actually different because the actual unit was a different size.
> 
> Since owners are not limited in a points based timeshare to staying in the exact unit your points belong to so, it is more about every unit across the entire resort having a total number of points when it comes to how to book all the rooms,
> 
> Once sold, it doesn’t really matter if the studio is 10 points a night and the 1 bedroom is 20 points a night or they change it and make it 13 and 17…it still adds to 30 points, which is how it was sold and deeded.
> 
> So, they can’t sell more than 30 points total for those two units, but I have not found in my limited research anything that says it has to stay 20 and 10.
> 
> Thar was the point I was making in reference to shifting points across room size.. So, once the VGf2 points are added to the same resort as VGF1, they may have the ability, like they did with the treehouses, to shift points between the two buildings


Ah, okay, I understand what you mean now. Good points. 

I think it does matter, though. Your unit might be a Studio and a 1 BR, but mine might be 2 studios. A shift from 10 and 20 to 13 and 17 would mean the point allocation in my unit is off — and as my points represent my % ownership in my unit, that can’t happen. (Now I get that it is more complicated because we’re also talking about total points for the year and different seasons come into play, but it gives the idea. Perhaps there is a way to make it balance across all unit types and shift across Home Villa types; I haven’t done the math analysis. And certainly I wouldn’t mind if 1BRs weren’t so much more expensive than Studios as I prefer 1BRs, but it doesn’t seem as if they could make those adjustments and abide by the terms of the POS. But I confess I have not spent the time trying to do the math to see if it is feasible, but if I recall in prior situations, there are those who dive into both the math and the POS and determined they could not.


----------



## Sandisw

Lorana said:


> Ah, okay, I understand what you mean now. Good points.
> 
> I think it does matter, though. Your unit might be a Studio and a 1 BR, but mine might be 2 studios. A shift from 10 and 20 to 13 and 17 would mean the point allocation in my unit is off — and as my points represent my % ownership in my unit, that can’t happen. (Now I get that it is more complicated because we’re also talking about total points for the year and different seasons come into play, but it gives the idea. Perhaps there is a way to make it balance across all unit types and shift across Home Villa types; I haven’t done the math analysis. And certainly I wouldn’t mind if 1BRs weren’t so much more expensive than Studios as I prefer 1BRs, but it doesn’t seem as if they could make those adjustments and abide by the terms of the POS. But I confess I have not spent the time trying to do the math to see if it is feasible, but if I recall in prior situations, there are those who dive into both the math and the POS and determined they could not.



So, how would you then view your ownership if they decided to create a non home resort booking chart (which is allowed)?  That adds points being used to book the unit you own.  I think that is why I see what is sold as fixed and the rest potentially not.  But, as you mention, neither one of us has done enough to know for sure.  Some day I will!!! And, the topic of a non home resort chart is a whole different can of worms!!


----------



## Lorana

Sandisw said:


> So, how would you then view your ownership if they decided to create a non home resort booking chart (which is allowed)?  That adds points being used to book the unit you own.  I think that is why I see what is sold as fixed and the rest potentially not.  But, as you mention, neither one of us has done enough to know for sure.  Some day I will!!! And, the topic of a non home resort chart is a whole different can of worms!!


But it wouldn’t affect my ability, as an owner, to book. I’d have to look at rules around how they could dk a non-home resort booking chart, but that’s entirely separate from how they would allocate points for me, as an owner, from booking.

The POS seems to clearly call they can only reallocate points to meet demand, and that the reallocation must be within Villa types (underline mine);

“_In order to meet the Club Members’ needs and expectations as evidenced by fluctuations in Use Day demand at the Condominium experienced by DVCMC during a given calendar year, DVCMC may, in its sole discretion, increase or decrease the Home resort Vacation Point requirements of a given Use Day within a given Vacation Home during the given calendar year by any amount not to exceed twenty percent (20%) of the Home Resort Vacation Points required to reserve a Use Day during the previous calendar year; provided, however, that the total number of Home Resort Vacation points existing within a given Unit at any time may not be increased or decreased because of such reallocation. The twenty percent (20%) reallocation limitation shall not apply to increases or decreases of Home Resort Vacation Point reservation requirements relating to designated periods of high demand which do not occur on the same Use Day each year. Any increase or decrease in the Home Resort Vacation point reservation requirement for a given Use Day pursuant to DVCMC’s right to make this Home resort Vacation Point adjustment must be offset by a corresponding increase or decrease for another Use Day or Use Days.”_


----------



## BWV Dreamin

Sandisw said:


> They are capped at 35% of the rooms for fixed weeks.  So, no more of that can be sold for any given week.  Now, with VGF, some weeks have already been sold so that will most likely play a role in how many are actually available for certain weeks in the new rooms.


I would assume the new fixed weeks will also have a booking category, resort studio or deluxe studio.


----------



## Nabas

Lorana said:


> But it wouldn’t affect my ability, as an owner, to book. I’d have to look at rules around how they could dk a non-home resort booking chart, but that’s entirely separate from how they would allocate points for me, as an owner, from booking.
> 
> The POS seems to clearly call they can only reallocate points to meet demand, and that the reallocation must be within Villa types (underline mine);
> 
> “_In order to meet the Club Members’ needs and expectations as evidenced by fluctuations in Use Day demand at the Condominium experienced by DVCMC during a given calendar year, DVCMC may, in its sole discretion, increase or decrease the Home resort Vacation Point requirements of a given Use Day within a given Vacation Home during the given calendar year by any amount not to exceed twenty percent (20%) of the Home Resort Vacation Points required to reserve a Use Day during the previous calendar year; provided, however, that the total number of Home Resort Vacation points existing within a given Unit at any time may not be increased or decreased because of such reallocation. The twenty percent (20%) reallocation limitation shall not apply to increases or decreases of Home Resort Vacation Point reservation requirements relating to designated periods of high demand which do not occur on the same Use Day each year. Any increase or decrease in the Home Resort Vacation point reservation requirement for a given Use Day pursuant to DVCMC’s right to make this Home resort Vacation Point adjustment must be offset by a corresponding increase or decrease for another Use Day or Use Days.”_


Thanks for posting this.

But this part bothers me:

_provided, however, that the total number of Home Resort Vacation points existing within a given Unit at any time may not be increased or decreased because of such reallocation_​
The thing is, didn't Disney do exactly this when they changed SSR to have 2 different room categories?  After all, some "units" were deemed "preferred" and their point totals were increased, while other "units" were deemed "standard" and their point totals were decreased.

Maybe I'm getting confused by what is meant by "unit", but when I bought into DVC, didn't I purchase at a specific unit?


----------



## JETSDAD

Nabas said:


> Thanks for posting this.
> 
> But this part bothers me:
> 
> _provided, however, that the total number of Home Resort Vacation points existing within a given Unit at any time may not be increased or decreased because of such reallocation_​
> The thing is, didn't Disney exactly this when they changed SSR to have 2 different room categories?  After all, some "units" were deemed "preferred" and their point totals were increased, while other "units" were deemed "standard" and their point totals were decreased.


They've done it plenty of times.  Some are just on a smaller scale.  For example, at times recently they've increased AKV Club Level rooms by decreasing Value rooms.  Value and Club rooms are not in the same units.  I think they might be getting more pushback from members now. Just because they've done it doesn't mean they should be doing it.


----------



## DVCsloth

The Theme Park Resort Studio seems to be pretty excessive to me. They will probably be relatively easy to book at 7 months.


----------



## Nabas

DVCsloth said:


> The Theme Park Resort Studio seems to be pretty excessive to me. They will probably be relatively easy to book at 7 months.


Touring Plans shows 7 rooms on floors 1 to 4 that could be considered Theme Park View, a total of 28 rooms at most.  (Based on images on Touring Plans, some of the views are not that good. It's unclear if all 28 of these rooms will be classified as Theme Park View.  Let's keep in mind what happened to some "Theme Park View" rooms at BLT several years ago.)  Since there are 200 rooms, Theme Park View rooms are going to be relatively scarce.


----------



## davidl81

Nabas said:


> Touring Plans shows 7 rooms on floors 1 to 4 that could be considered Theme Park View, a total of 28 rooms at most.  (Based on images on Touring Plans, some of the views are not that good. It's unclear if all 28 of these rooms will be classified as Theme Park View.  Let's keep in mind what happened to some "Theme Park View" rooms at BLT several years ago.)  Since there are 200 rooms, Theme Park View rooms are going to be relatively scarce.
> 
> View attachment 628132


I think even with the higher point requirement per night they will rent fairly well.  The limited inventory will help.  I will say that overall the point chart was very fair.


----------



## Lorana

Nabas said:


> Thanks for posting this.
> 
> But this part bothers me:
> 
> _provided, however, that the total number of Home Resort Vacation points existing within a given Unit at any time may not be increased or decreased because of such reallocation_​
> The thing is, didn't Disney do exactly this when they changed SSR to have 2 different room categories?  After all, some "units" were deemed "preferred" and their point totals were increased, while other "units" were deemed "standard" and their point totals were decreased.
> 
> Maybe I'm getting confused by what is meant by "unit", but when I bought into DVC, didn't I purchase at a specific unit?


They did. I’d argue that they shouldn’t have been allowed to, but there wasn’t pushback from owners or threat of a lawsuit at the time - probably because it was one resort, one category, and benefited people who wanted other categories.

But for the 2020 point charts, they attempted to reallocate points to 1BRs across the board (the lockoff premium debacle) and that is when owners took notice, dug into the details, and pushed back on DVC, who then changed course and fixed the point charts. Since then, some owners have played very close attention to the point charts, which is how the issue with 2022 charts increasing the total number of points at each resort was caught. DVC again fixed the point charts after many owners raised the issue.

So just because DVC does do something doesn’t mean they should do it, or are acting always in our best interest, which is why it’s important to analyze changes and hold them accountable when they aren’t acting in our interests.


----------



## Lorana

davidl81 said:


> I think even with the higher point requirement per night they will rent fairly well.  The limited inventory will help.  I will say that overall the point chart was very fair.


Personally, though, if I’m going to pay a lot of points for an MK Theme Park view, I’ll stay at BLT. ;-)


----------



## Sandisw

Nabas said:


> Thanks for posting this.
> 
> But this part bothers me:
> 
> _provided, however, that the total number of Home Resort Vacation points existing within a given Unit at any time may not be increased or decreased because of such reallocation_​
> The thing is, didn't Disney do exactly this when they changed SSR to have 2 different room categories?  After all, some "units" were deemed "preferred" and their point totals were increased, while other "units" were deemed "standard" and their point totals were decreased.
> 
> Maybe I'm getting confused by what is meant by "unit", but when I bought into DVC, didn't I purchase at a specific unit?



You would have to go back to the way units were declared. Not all units have the same vacation homes. A unit could have been all one section, building, or it could have been multiple rooms across multiple buildings.

Without that info there is no way to know because lock offs are based on 2 bedroom but the premium exists. Dedicated rooms muddy it in terms of easy way to figure it all out.

Once a unit is declared, can it be added to? I don’t know. For example, can the new rooms at Big Pine Key at VGF be put into a particular u it already part of the original building???


----------



## davidl81

Lorana said:


> Personally, though, if I’m going to pay a lot of points for an MK Theme Park view, I’ll stay at BLT. ;-)


BLT will have the better views of MK for sure. But VGF has a deferent vibe to the resort and some more upscale dining if you are into that.  I honestly like both resorts a lot, just they have some differences, but that’s what great about DVC, I can at 7 months pick from a lot of different styles of resorts/trips.


----------



## Sandisw

davidl81 said:


> BLT will have the better views of MK for sure. But VGF has a deferent vibe to the resort and some more upscale dining if you are into that.  I honestly like both resorts a lot, just they have some differences, but that’s what great about DVC, I can at 7 months pick from a lot of different styles of resorts/trips.



I prefer VGF to BLT as well because it’s so easy to back and forth between it and Poly and has a much nicer way to complete a walk/run!!


----------



## davidl81

Sandisw said:


> I prefer VGF to BLT as well because it’s so easy to back and forth between it and Poly and has a much nicer way to complete a walk/run!!


The new path to MK is actually a really big deal to me.  I’m am fairly big runner and I love to run while on vacation.  It does not need to be super long, but if I can get a decent 5-6 mile run every other day I’m very happy.  The new path from VGF to MK is perfect to extent some runs for me.  It’s honestly one of my biggest dislikes about AKV, there is no decent route to run (if only they would build a AKV to AK path!).


----------



## Lorana

Sandisw said:


> You would have to go back to the way units were declared. Not all units have the same vacation homes. A unit could have been all one section, building, or it could have been multiple rooms across multiple buildings.
> 
> Without that info there is no way to know because lock offs are based on 2 bedroom but the premium exists. Dedicated rooms muddy it in terms of easy way to figure it all out.
> 
> Once a unit is declared, can it be added to? I don’t know. For example, can the new rooms at Big Pine Key at VGF be put into a particular u it already part of the original building???


I believe the answer to this is no, because units are declared in the condo association declarations, and DVC contracts/deeds are sold tied to specific units.  You could add more units to the association, but you could not change the nature of the units.


----------



## Lorana

davidl81 said:


> The new path to MK is actually a really big deal to me.  I’m am fairly big runner and I love to run while on vacation.  It does not need to be super long, but if I can get a decent 5-6 mile run every other day I’m very happy.  The new path from VGF to MK is perfect to extent some runs for me.  It’s honestly one of my biggest dislikes about AKV, there is no decent route to run (if only they would build a AKV to AK path!).


That is one of my husband's biggest gripes with the AKV, much as we love it!  I certainly bemoan the lack of a good walking trial, both between Jambo and Kidani, one to AK, and even one just around some of the savannas.  If there was ever a resort that screamed "have beautiful walking trails," this is it.  This was a huge miss on Disney's part, IMHO.

Also, we hope they reopen the trail at the Wilderness Lodge soon, too.


----------



## JETSDAD

Lorana said:


> That is one of my husband's biggest gripes with the AKV, much as we love it!  I certainly bemoan the lack of a good walking trial, both between Jambo and Kidani, one to AK, and even one just around some of the savannas.  If there was ever a resort that screamed "have beautiful walking trails," this is it.  This was a huge miss on Disney's part, IMHO.
> 
> Also, we hope they reopen the trail at the Wilderness Lodge soon, too.


AKV's walking trails are just indoors lol.


----------



## Sandisw

Lorana said:


> I believe the answer to this is no, because units are declared in the condo association declarations, and DVC contracts/deeds are sold tied to specific units.  You could add more units to the association, but you could not change the nature of the units.



Thanks. Do you know where you found that info so I can look it up too? I know deeds are tied to units etc but I mean that they can’t add new rooms and amend the units already in them once declared


----------



## Lorana

Sandisw said:


> Thanks. Do you know where you found that info so I can look it up too? I know deeds are tied to units etc but I mean that they can’t add new rooms and amend the units already in them once declared



I am NOT a contractor lawyer or a lawyer of any kind, so this is just my interpretation of the law and POS.  But here is what I read to draw that conclusion:

FL Law:  http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0718/0718.html
_718.110  (4) "Unless otherwise provided in the declaration as originally recorded, no amendment may change the configuration or size of any unit in any material fashion, materially alter or modify the appurtenances to the unit, or change the proportion or percentage by which the unit owner shares the common expenses of the condominium and owns the common surplus of the condominium unless the record owner of the unit and all record owners of liens on the unit join in the execution of the amendment and unless all the record owners of all other units in the same condominium approve the amendment."_

And http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...ing=&URL=0700-0799/0721/Sections/0721.13.html
_"(8) Notwithstanding anything to the contrary in s. 718.110, s. 718.113, s. 718.114, or s. 719.1055, the board of administration of any owners’ association that operates a timeshare condominium pursuant to s. 718.111, or a timeshare cooperative pursuant to s. 719.104, shall have the power to make material alterations or substantial additions to the accommodations or facilities of such timeshare condominium or timeshare cooperative without the approval of the owners’ association. However, if the timeshare condominium or timeshare cooperative contains any residential units that are not subject to the timeshare plan, such action by the board of administration must be approved by a majority of the owners of such residential units. Unless otherwise provided in the timeshare instrument as originally recorded, no such amendment may change the configuration or size of any accommodation in any material fashion, or change the proportion or percentage by which a member of the owners’ association shares the common expenses, unless the record owners of the affected units or timeshare interests and all record owners of liens on the affected units or timeshare interests join in the execution of the amendment. "_

In the Multi-Site DVC POS, it states:
"7. Substitutions. BVTC has not reserved the right to substitute the accommodations or facilities of one component site for those of another. "

In the CCV POS, it states:
"_7.1.1.3 Not withstanding the maintenance and repair responsibilities of the Association set forth in this Section 7.1.1, prior to the commencement of any construction, reconstruction, alteration, renovation, restoration, repair or replacement of any Common Element or Limited Common Element, or any portion of any Common Element or Limited Common Element, the Association must obtain the approval of DVD, for so long as DVD owns a Unit or an Ownership Interest. Pursuant to Section721.13(8), Florida Statutes, the Board has the right, and without the approval of the Owners, to make material alterations or substantial additions to the Units, Common Elements, Limited Common Elements ,and Association-owned real property, subject to the approval of DVD, for so long as DVD owns a Unit or Ownership Interest. Furthermore, the Board has the right, and without the approval of the Owners, to maintain, repair, alter, rearrange, improve, remove, or replace any or all personal property or furnishings that are part of the Condominium Property, including such personal property including in the Units and Vacation Homes subject to the Vacation Ownership Plan, and are not the property of individual Owners from time to time, subject to the approval of DVD, for so long as DVD owns a Unit or an Ownership Interest._"

As the POS did not reserve the right to "c_hange the configuration or size of any accommodation in any material fashion, or change the proportion or percentage by which a member of the owners’ association shares the common expenses" _without consent of the owners, they therefore cannot do so without ALL of us who own in a unit consenting to the change.


----------



## Sandisw

Lorana said:


> I am NOT a contractor lawyer or a lawyer of any kind, so this is just my interpretation of the law and POS.  But here is what I read to draw that conclusion:
> 
> FL Law:  http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0718/0718.html
> _718.110  (4) "Unless otherwise provided in the declaration as originally recorded, no amendment may change the configuration or size of any unit in any material fashion, materially alter or modify the appurtenances to the unit, or change the proportion or percentage by which the unit owner shares the common expenses of the condominium and owns the common surplus of the condominium unless the record owner of the unit and all record owners of liens on the unit join in the execution of the amendment and unless all the record owners of all other units in the same condominium approve the amendment."_
> 
> And http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...ing=&URL=0700-0799/0721/Sections/0721.13.html
> _"(8) Notwithstanding anything to the contrary in s. 718.110, s. 718.113, s. 718.114, or s. 719.1055, the board of administration of any owners’ association that operates a timeshare condominium pursuant to s. 718.111, or a timeshare cooperative pursuant to s. 719.104, shall have the power to make material alterations or substantial additions to the accommodations or facilities of such timeshare condominium or timeshare cooperative without the approval of the owners’ association. However, if the timeshare condominium or timeshare cooperative contains any residential units that are not subject to the timeshare plan, such action by the board of administration must be approved by a majority of the owners of such residential units. Unless otherwise provided in the timeshare instrument as originally recorded, no such amendment may change the configuration or size of any accommodation in any material fashion, or change the proportion or percentage by which a member of the owners’ association shares the common expenses, unless the record owners of the affected units or timeshare interests and all record owners of liens on the affected units or timeshare interests join in the execution of the amendment. "_
> 
> In the Multi-Site DVC POS, it states:
> "7. Substitutions. BVTC has not reserved the right to substitute the accommodations or facilities of one component site for those of another. "
> 
> In the CCV POS, it states:
> "_7.1.1.3 Not withstanding the maintenance and repair responsibilities of the Association set forth in this Section 7.1.1, prior to the commencement of any construction, reconstruction, alteration, renovation, restoration, repair or replacement of any Common Element or Limited Common Element, or any portion of any Common Element or Limited Common Element, the Association must obtain the approval of DVD, for so long as DVD owns a Unit or an Ownership Interest. Pursuant to Section721.13(8), Florida Statutes, the Board has the right, and without the approval of the Owners, to make material alterations or substantial additions to the Units, Common Elements, Limited Common Elements ,and Association-owned real property, subject to the approval of DVD, for so long as DVD owns a Unit or Ownership Interest. Furthermore, the Board has the right, and without the approval of the Owners, to maintain, repair, alter, rearrange, improve, remove, or replace any or all personal property or furnishings that are part of the Condominium Property, including such personal property including in the Units and Vacation Homes subject to the Vacation Ownership Plan, and are not the property of individual Owners from time to time, subject to the approval of DVD, for so long as DVD owns a Unit or an Ownership Interest._"
> 
> As the POS did not reserve the right to "c_hange the configuration or size of any accommodation in any material fashion, or change the proportion or percentage by which a member of the owners’ association shares the common expenses" _without consent of the owners, they therefore cannot do so without ALL of us who own in a unit consenting to the change.



That's what I was looking in terms of FL statues and had hoped you might have it already!

So thank you!!!


----------



## havoc315

davidl81 said:


> BLT will have the better views of MK for sure. But VGF has a deferent vibe to the resort and some more upscale dining if you are into that.  I honestly like both resorts a lot, just they have some differences, but that’s what great about DVC, I can at 7 months pick from a lot of different styles of resorts/trips.



BLT will have a closer view. But the rooms at VGF will be MUCH bigger.

BLT studios are tiny at 339 square feet.
GFV at 440 square feet.

Massive difference in size.

And I wouldn't say the BLT view is better. It's closer. But it's over a parking lot. From lower floors, the parking lot really dominates the view. The GF view is over water, a much nicer view, IMO.


----------



## DougEMG

Lorana said:


> I am in the camp of "no, they are not allowed to."  I'd have to look it up, but the POS has language around "the total number of Home Resort Vacation Points existing within a given Unit may not be increased or decreased because of any reallocation."  I'll find the exact word, but the POS strongly implies they cannot shift points between unit types (different views within the same unit type, yes).  I just think they will try again and see if they can get away with it, since they've done so in the past.



When I looked at my contract this was the wording that I also took to mean that they can't change the total number of points in a unit.  As owners we own a percentage of a specific unit (a combination of real rooms) which are represented by points.  If they changed the total points in a unit, then they are changing our ownership.  Hence I think they broke the rules when they reallocated the points out of the treehouses at SSR.  Unfortunately rules are only ever any good if they can be enforced and I think DVC plays pretty loose with the rules under the assumption that they will not be challenged on them.


----------



## CarolynFH

DougEMG said:


> I think DVC plays pretty loose with the rules under the assumption that they will not be challenged on them.


I think they did play loose with the rules, until the first iteration of the 2020 points charts came out and they realized that with social media, not only would they be caught, they would be seriously challenged.  I know the treehouse villas reallocation was discussed here, but I guess since it only affected those who were SSR owners at the time, it didn't get enough traction.  The 2020 points charts affected everyone, so a bigger uproar, and now they know they're being watched closely.


----------



## DonMacGregor

CarolynFH said:


> I think they did play loose with the rules, until the first iteration of the 2020 points charts came out and they realized that with social media, not only would they be caught, they would be seriously challenged.  I know the treehouse villas reallocation was discussed here, but I guess since it only affected those who were SSR owners at the time, it didn't get enough traction.  The 2020 points charts affected everyone, so a bigger uproar, and now they know they're being watched closely.


That, and I think they (somewhat arrogantly) failed to appreciate that with a great many DVC owners shelling out mid to high five-figures on contracts, there just may be a few with the appropriate education and/or experience or credentials to recognize possibly shady financial or legal shenanigans.


----------



## Lorana

CarolynFH said:


> I think they did play loose with the rules, until the first iteration of the 2020 points charts came out and they realized that with social media, not only would they be caught, they would be seriously challenged.  I know the treehouse villas reallocation was discussed here, but I guess since it only affected those who were SSR owners at the time, it didn't get enough traction.  The 2020 points charts affected everyone, so a bigger uproar, and now they know they're being watched closely.


I just looked up what units I owe in SSR, as I picked up 2 resale contracts, and it turns out one of them is the Treehouses - unit 140B, Treehouses 7015 & 7016.  Which means I *am* directly affected by the THV reallocation.  Maybe I'll dig into this more (as I don't know how many points were shifted) and send a letter to DVC to inquire whether my 100 points accurately reflects my 0.3314% ownership of that unit.  I just need to figure out how many points were required to book a THV for the entire year when it opened.


----------



## Lorana

Lorana said:


> I just looked up what units I owe in SSR, as I picked up 2 resale contracts, and it turns out one of them is the Treehouses - unit 140B, Treehouses 7015 & 7016.  Which means I *am* directly affected by the THV reallocation.  Maybe I'll dig into this more (as I don't know how many points were shifted) and send a letter to DVC to inquire whether my 100 points accurately reflects my 0.3314% ownership of that unit.  I just need to figure out how many points were required to book a THV for the entire year when it opened.


SSR actually makes this easy to figure out, from the perspective that the Treehouses were added on later, and thus we know the total number of points declared to the Treehouses:  905,250.  And in 2019, the total number of points needed to book all Treehouses in the year is 1,047,840 points, a 15.8% increase.  This would mean that my 100 points are, effectively, worth only 84.2 points after their reallocation.  I haven't done the math for the 2023 charts, but wanted to share what I found.  (Reference here:  https://web.archive.org/web/2021042...t/reallocation-impact-on-the-treehouse-villas ).

I don't suppose anyone has access to a spreadsheet or something similar that would make it easy for me to calculate the total number of points required to book THVs for the year?  If not, I'll carve out some time over my holiday break to see if I can figure it out.

Also, I came across this in Florida Statue 721.05 (25): “...No individual timeshare unit may be counted as providing more than 365 use nights per 12-month period or more than 366 use nights per 12-month period that includes February 29. The use rights of each owner shall be counted without regard to whether the owner’s use rights have been suspended for failure to pay assessments or otherwise."
As points are a representation of our % ownership of a unit, then it IS a requirement that total number of points to book a resort for the year equal the total points sold for the resort; further (though you'd really need to ask a lawyer on this), it seems to me this does imply that you cannot re-allocate points across units.


----------



## Sandisw

Lorana said:


> SSR actually makes this easy to figure out, from the perspective that the Treehouses were added on later, and thus we know the total number of points declared to the Treehouses:  905,250.  And in 2019, the total number of points needed to book all Treehouses in the year is 1,047,840 points, a 15.8% increase.  This would mean that my 100 points are, effectively, worth only 84.2 points after their reallocation.  I haven't done the math for the 2023 charts, but wanted to share what I found.  (Reference here:  https://web.archive.org/web/2021042...t/reallocation-impact-on-the-treehouse-villas ).
> 
> I don't suppose anyone has access to a spreadsheet or something similar that would make it easy for me to calculate the total number of points required to book THVs for the year?  If not, I'll carve out some time over my holiday break to see if I can figure it out.
> 
> Also, I came across this in Florida Statue 721.05 (25): “...No individual timeshare unit may be counted as providing more than 365 use nights per 12-month period or more than 366 use nights per 12-month period that includes February 29. The use rights of each owner shall be counted without regard to whether the owner’s use rights have been suspended for failure to pay assessments or otherwise."
> As points are a representation of our % ownership of a unit, then it IS a requirement that total number of points to book a resort for the year equal the total points sold for the resort; further (though you'd really need to ask a lawyer on this), it seems to me this does imply that you cannot re-allocate points across units.



I have seen that, but the only thing that I find difficult sometimes in the statues is points based vs regulsr timeshare as it not always being clear If it is different or not.

But, all good info.


----------



## Lorana

Sandisw said:


> I have seen that, but the only thing that I find difficult sometimes in the statues is points based vs regulsr timeshare as it not always being clear If it is different or not.
> 
> But, all good info.


DVC is deeded real estate, and thus falls under "Timeshare Estates" of the Vacation Club statutes (and is not a timeshare license).  Its own POS and Declaration documents, as well as the contract you sign at time of purchase, lay out the rules of points: specifically, that points represent the percentage interest of your unit ownership, and that those points were determined at the time of declaration as the points necessary to book all units in the resort for the year.  Thus, total point charts and total declared points of a resort are intrinsically linked.  And as DVC is a Timeshare Estate, statute 721.57 (1) says "In addition to meeting all the requirements of part I, timeshare estates offered in a specific multisite timeshare plan must meet the requirements of subsection (2)."  Which means that DVC must comply with these statutes.

Any DVC's owners total points must represent the % ownership of their interest in their unit, per our contract (this taken from my CCV FW contract):  "Purchaser's Ownership Interest shall be symbolized as 118 Home Resort Vacation Points for purposes of administrative convenience only and for no other purpose. Home Resort Vacation Points are merely reflective of Purchaser's Ownership Interest..."


----------



## Sandisw

Lorana said:


> DVC is deeded real estate, and thus falls under "Timeshare Estates" of the Vacation Club statutes (and is not a timeshare license).  Its own POS and Declaration documents, as well as the contract you sign at time of purchase, lay out the rules of points: specifically, that points represent the percentage interest of your unit ownership, and that those points were determined at the time of declaration as the points necessary to book all units in the resort for the year.  Thus, total point charts and total declared points of a resort are intrinsically linked.  And as DVC is a Timeshare Estate, statute 721.57 (1) says "In addition to meeting all the requirements of part I, timeshare estates offered in a specific multisite timeshare plan must meet the requirements of subsection (2)."  Which means that DVC must comply with these statutes.
> 
> Any DVC's owners total points must represent the % ownership of their interest in their unit, per our contract (this taken from my CCV FW contract):  "Purchaser's Ownership Interest shall be symbolized as 118 Home Resort Vacation Points for purposes of administrative convenience only and for no other purpose. Home Resort Vacation Points are merely reflective of Purchaser's Ownership Interest..."



Exactly. The points are way to simply represent your ownership interest and that never change#, regardless of the points chart.

As I said, my 150 BWV points did not represent the same % of the units and ultimately the resort, but I got to use them as though they did.

So, if I use 20 points in a studio and you use 20 points in a studio, we both get the same benefit for use irrespective of what % its represents in the unit  they deeded to because of the total points in the resort. Ultimately, that is what the point chart represents, does it not?


----------



## Lorana

Sandisw said:


> Exactly. The points are way to simply represent your ownership interest and that never change#, regardless of the points chart.
> 
> As I said, my 150 BWV points did not represent the same % of the units and ultimately the resort, but I got to use them as though they did.
> 
> So, if I use 20 points in a studio and you use 20 points in a studio, we both get the same benefit for use irrespective of what % its represents in the unit  they deeded to because of the total points in the resort. Ultimately, that is what the point chart represents, does it not?


I answered a similar question in a different post, so rather than post again, I'll just reference it here:
https://www.disboards.com/threads/2023-point-charts-released.3862115/post-63597719
Points represent two things, and those two things are inexplicably linked:
(1) They represent your % ownership in a unit
(2) They represent points needed in any given season to book a particular Vacation Home Villas

An important consideration is that a unit may compromise more than one Vacation Home Villas.

That consideration is important from a legal standpoint -- and to the question as to whether or not they can move points from one Vacation Villa Type to another - because when Disney balances point charts for the year, they must do two things:
(1) Ensure the total number of points required to book the entire resort remains the same as the total number of points declared in the resort
(2) Points continue to represent the % ownership interest, which means ensuring the total number of points to book a UNIT (not villa) in a given year equals the total number of points that unit represents (based on declaration).

We talk a lot in these boards, and when it comes to point charts, about #1, but #2 must also be true.

So while your 100 points and my 100 points may allow us to book the same number of nights in a specific VILLA TYPE in the year, #2 is *not* the same:  their reallocation of 2BR into THVs to raise THVs has made it so that my 100 points no longer represents my ownership interest.

I can understand why it may seem like "why does this matter?  We both can do the same thing with 100 points" it matters to settle the question of whether you can take points from high point villas and move them into, say, studios.  This is an especially important matter for owners at places like PVB and CCV, where point-hungry Cabins and Villas exist, and where it is important that, say, studios don't become a dumping ground to lower the cost of bungalows/cabins.  In the case of THV, what they did is illegal, because my points no longer reflect my ownership interest.  (And given that I bought into SSR to stay in Treehouse Villas, ensuring that the point chart for THVs represents THVs and not THVs + points used to lower 2BRs does matter to me personally, though I can get why people who may love 2BRs and love that Disney lowered 2BR costs may not be happy if this is addressed).  

Now, I believe that all of SSR units are EITHER 2x2 THVs *or* 2-BRs, and that all Studios and 1BRs at SSR are, in fact, lock-offs.  If that's true, then it may be possible in SSR to move points between Studios, 1BRs, 2BRs.  I would in fact have to go look at the master declaration to see what the unit makeups are, and if all SSR units are 3-2BRs.  However, they cannot reallocate points between THVs and 2BRs because of the requirement that points equal % ownership.

But other resorts - say, for example, CCV, where a unit might be a cabin, or in the case of some of my contracts, one unit is 2 Dedicated 2BRs; another is 1 LO 2BR and 2 Studios; and another is a Dedicated-2BR and a LO-2BR (and my % of ownership varies even when the # of points is the same, due to the size differences in units), the point allocation probably requires points to remain within vacation villa types in order to ensure that # of points = unit % ownership


----------



## Sandisw

Lorana said:


> I answered a similar question in a different post, so rather than post again, I'll just reference it here:
> https://www.disboards.com/threads/2023-point-charts-released.3862115/post-63597719
> Points represent two things, and those two things are inexplicably linked:
> (1) They represent your % ownership in a unit
> (2) They represent points needed in any given season to book a particular Vacation Home Villas
> 
> An important consideration is that a unit may compromise more than one Vacation Home Villas.
> 
> That consideration is important from a legal standpoint -- and to the question as to whether or not they can move points from one Vacation Villa Type to another - because when Disney balances point charts for the year, they must do two things:
> (1) Ensure the total number of points required to book the entire resort remains the same as the total number of points declared in the resort
> (2) Points continue to represent the % ownership interest, which means ensuring the total number of points to book a UNIT (not villa) in a given year equals the total number of points that unit represents (based on declaration).
> 
> We talk a lot in these boards, and when it comes to point charts, about #1, but #2 must also be true.
> 
> So while your 100 points and my 100 points may allow us to book the same number of nights in a specific VILLA TYPE in the year, #2 is *not* the same:  their reallocation of 2BR into THVs to raise THVs has made it so that my 100 points no longer represents my ownership interest.
> 
> I can understand why it may seem like "why does this matter?  We both can do the same thing with 100 points" it matters to settle the question of whether you can take points from high point villas and move them into, say, studios.  This is an especially important matter for owners at places like PVB and CCV, where point-hungry Cabins and Villas exist, and where it is important that, say, studios don't become a dumping ground to lower the cost of bungalows/cabins.  In the case of THV, what they did is illegal, because my points no longer reflect my ownership interest.  (And given that I bought into SSR to stay in Treehouse Villas, ensuring that the point chart for THVs represents THVs and not THVs + points used to lower 2BRs does matter to me personally, though I can get why people who may love 2BRs and love that Disney lowered 2BR costs may not be happy if this is addressed).
> 
> Now, I believe that all of SSR units are EITHER 2x2 THVs *or* 2-BRs, and that all Studios and 1BRs at SSR are, in fact, lock-offs.  If that's true, then it may be possible in SSR to move points between Studios, 1BRs, 2BRs.  I would in fact have to go look at the master declaration to see what the unit makeups are, and if all SSR units are 3-2BRs.  However, they cannot reallocate points between THVs and 2BRs because of the requirement that points equal % ownership.
> 
> But other resorts - say, for example, CCV, where a unit might be a cabin, or in the case of some of my contracts, one unit is 2 Dedicated 2BRs; another is 1 LO 2BR and 2 Studios; and another is a Dedicated-2BR and a LO-2BR (and my % of ownership varies even when the # of points is the same, due to the size differences in units), the point allocation probably requires points to remain within vacation villa types in order to ensure that # of points = unit % ownership



Except we don’t chose our units and have no rights or claim on that unit in reference to the points we own.

I do appreciate your details and it’s good for me to have for my investigation into this because they are all points I need more info on. 

The treehouse issue is questionable but can’t say one way or the other until I get more specifics from FL people who oversee alll of this.


----------



## Lorana

Sandisw said:


> Except we don’t chose our units and have no rights or claim on that unit in reference to the points we own.


From a legal standpoint, that's irrelevant, though, to your deeded interest.  You still own part of a specific unit, and your points still represent your ownership of that unit, and thus by the contract, your # of points should always represent your percentage ownership of the unit.  That we aren't required to stay in our unit is beside the point of how our ownership and the points that represent it matter.



Sandisw said:


> I do appreciate your details and it’s good for me to have for my investigation into this because they are all points I need more info on.



Glad I could help!



Sandisw said:


> The treehouse issue is questionable but can’t say one way or the other until I get more specifics from FL people who oversee alll of this.


Please do share the results of your own investigation!  I'd love to hear what you learn as well.


----------



## Sandisw

Lorana said:


> From a legal standpoint, that's irrelevant, though, to your deeded interest.  You still own part of a specific unit, and your points still represent your ownership of that unit, and thus by the contract, your # of points should always represent your percentage ownership of the unit.  That we aren't required to stay in our unit is beside the point of how our ownership and the points that represent it matter.
> 
> 
> 
> Glad I could help!
> 
> 
> Please do share the results of your own investigation!  I'd love to hear what you learn as well.



I will!  My goal is to start the real work in January!!!  As I said, I am going to start with FL timeshares division (and whomever else I need to in that realm first) and then take what I learn into conversations with DVC...no sense starting the other way around because we already know that DVC believes that the shift to the treehouses was indeed within bounds.


----------



## princesslayla

Anyone know when these go on sale? We were at VGF last week and no one knew…


----------



## Jelly563

If anyone can shed some light....I usually travel in the fall. The points I used to spend are soooo much higher now. I used to get a GV for 80pts a night during the week, 88 on weekends. 
    Now, 3 out of the 5 "time periods" are wayyy over 80 pts and only a 2 week period in sept is just 4 points less. Looks like I have to buy another contract to get what we have usually booked. Am I unreasonable ?   or is this commonly accepted ??


----------



## Doberge

Jelly563 said:


> If anyone can shed some light....I usually travel in the fall. The points I used to spend are soooo much higher now. I used to get a GV for 80pts a night during the week, 88 on weekends.
> Now, 3 out of the 5 "time periods" are wayyy over 80 pts and only a 2 week period in sept is just 4 points less. Looks like I have to buy another contract to get what we have usually booked. Am I unreasonable ?   or is this commonly accepted ??



May be able to help if you can share what you're looking at. In 2021 DVC went from 5 to 7 seasons and I've never seen a grand villa under 112 points per night.


----------



## Sandisw

Jelly563 said:


> If anyone can shed some light....I usually travel in the fall. The points I used to spend are soooo much higher now. I used to get a GV for 80pts a night during the week, 88 on weekends.
> Now, 3 out of the 5 "time periods" are wayyy over 80 pts and only a 2 week period in sept is just 4 points less. Looks like I have to buy another contract to get what we have usually booked. Am I unreasonable ?   or is this commonly accepted ??



They are allowed to adjust for demand so what has happened is that they switched around what different times of the year cost to ensure a more equal distribution of use.

So, those who were fall visitors are going to be paying more to stay and those that go in summer will now pay less for the same trip.

You personally are on the end of paying more but another owner is on the benefit end and probably happy to be able to stay for similar amount of points that you had been staying.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

Jelly563 said:


> If anyone can shed some light....I usually travel in the fall. The points I used to spend are soooo much higher now. I used to get a GV for 80pts a night during the week, 88 on weekends.
> Now, 3 out of the 5 "time periods" are wayyy over 80 pts and only a 2 week period in sept is just 4 points less. Looks like I have to buy another contract to get what we have usually booked. Am I unreasonable ?   or is this commonly accepted ??



What resort do you normally book the GV?  It doesn't sound like you're referencing VGF based on that number of points.

But yes, DVC has the right and actually the obligation to rebalance the point charts if there are times that are proving to book much more quickly than other times of the year.  For quite some time that has been most of the last 3-4 months of the year while spring and summer have not booked anywhere near as fast.  There will be people who are happy about the reallocation and will have to use fewer points and those, such as yourself, who are not and will now have to use more points for the times they normally have gone.


----------



## CaliAdventurer

Royal Consort said:


> Our trip in Nov at VGF now costs 19 more points a week. Ouch that hurts.


Agree! We go the same week each October in a standard 2 bedroom.  It was 359 for a week in 2018.  Its been going up and up.  Now it is 443.  Brutal. We have 500 points there which should get us that week we purchased for (not fixed oops) and another smaller trip but that's over apparently.  And if I cant get my room at 11 mos. I'll be selling.  It will be time to buy a condo and never look back at DVC.


----------



## BrianLo

Would the expectation be that VGF2 would carry a 50 year expiration? Or would it be linked to VGF1's.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

BrianLo said:


> Would the expectation be that VGF2 would carry a 50 year expiration? Or would it be linked to VGF1's.



It will be the same.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

I remember people asked about timing up thread; Disney’s 10K they published just last week listed “Summer 2022” as the opening for this and “2023” as the opening for Disneyland Villas. 

They wouldn’t put a date in their 10K if they didn’t firmly believe it would happen as that would be a felony.


----------



## Doberge

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> I remember people asked about timing up thread; Disney’s 10K they published just last week listed “Summer 2022” as the opening for this and “2023” as the opening for Disneyland Villas.
> 
> They wouldn’t put a date in their 10K if they didn’t firmly believe it would happen as that would be a felony.



Yes, they've been pretty firm about summer 2022 for VGF and the report saying "by Summer 2022" is unambiguous. Disneyland language is "expected to open in 2023" and that language is more hesitant and allows for Disney to blame whatever it wants if delayed to 2024.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> I remember people asked about timing up thread; Disney’s 10K they published just last week listed “Summer 2022” as the opening for this and “2023” as the opening for Disneyland Villas.
> 
> They wouldn’t put a date in their 10K if they didn’t firmly believe it would happen as that would be a felony.



Summer is June 21, 2022 to Sept 22, 2022 so still not really providing a date.


----------



## Doberge

KAT4DISNEY said:


> Summer is June 21, 2022 to Sept 22, 2022 so still not really providing a date.



Does Disney observe official summer? It's been on my mind because Guardians is supposed to open in summer and our dates are like June 10-17.


----------



## Nabas

Doberge said:


> Does Disney observe official summer? It's been on my mind because Guardians is supposed to open in summer and our dates are like June 10-17.


Right, or is Disney simply referring to the time after schools go into summer break, which is as early as May?

Another website reported that Disney executives have already taken advanced preview rides on Guardians, with WDW President Jeff Vahle stating, "I’m looking forward to seeing the finishing touches over the next several months and can’t wait for you to get a look when it opens at EPCOT next summer."


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

Doberge said:


> Does Disney observe official summer? It's been on my mind because Guardians is supposed to open in summer and our dates are like June 10-17.


Historically no. SWGE was supposed to open at DL in “summer” and opened May 31.


----------



## Nabas

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> Historically no. SWGE was supposed to open at DL in “summer” and opened May 31.


My interpretation of Disney’s “summer” is school summer recess, which typically is late May to Labor Day.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

Doberge said:


> Does Disney observe official summer? It's been on my mind because Guardians is supposed to open in summer and our dates are like June 10-17.



I'd actually say historically yes.  Basically they'll use whichever fits though and call it good.


----------



## nuhusky123

Prediction

nov direct sales were disappointing, riv sold below avg at 64k points. Only 36% of riv points have been sold to date

gfv2 sales price point will be $201 with better than riv incentives day 1 then incentives matching riv after initial sales

consequences of overpricing gfv

if dvc prices gfv above $201 I’d predict equal to lower than riv monthly sales. Let’s say they do 50k points a month. It would take dvc 40 months to sell all gfv points. Dvc will want to close gfv much faster than 40 months especially given any sales into gfv will reduce riv sales. So where riv did 64k points in nov, with gfv in play you can probably expect to half riv sale volumes.

so there it is, gfv goes on sale at an identical price point to riv


----------



## zavandor

Lorana said:


> I answered a similar question in a different post, so rather than post again, I'll just reference it here:
> https://www.disboards.com/threads/2023-point-charts-released.3862115/post-63597719
> Points represent two things, and those two things are inexplicably linked:
> (1) They represent your % ownership in a unit
> (2) They represent points needed in any given season to book a particular Vacation Home Villas
> 
> An important consideration is that a unit may compromise more than one Vacation Home Villas.
> 
> That consideration is important from a legal standpoint -- and to the question as to whether or not they can move points from one Vacation Villa Type to another - because when Disney balances point charts for the year, they must do two things:
> *(1) Ensure the total number of points required to book the entire resort remains the same as the total number of points declared in the resort*
> (2) Points continue to represent the % ownership interest, which means ensuring the total number of points to book a UNIT (not villa) in a given year equals the total number of points that unit represents (based on declaration).
> 
> We talk a lot in these boards, and when it comes to point charts, about #1, but #2 must also be true.
> 
> So while your 100 points and my 100 points may allow us to book the same number of nights in a specific VILLA TYPE in the year, #2 is *not* the same:  their reallocation of 2BR into THVs to raise THVs has made it so that my 100 points no longer represents my ownership interest.
> 
> I can understand why it may seem like "why does this matter?  We both can do the same thing with 100 points" it matters to settle the question of whether you can take points from high point villas and move them into, say, studios.  This is an especially important matter for owners at places like PVB and CCV, where point-hungry Cabins and Villas exist, and where it is important that, say, studios don't become a dumping ground to lower the cost of bungalows/cabins.  In the case of THV, what they did is illegal, because my points no longer reflect my ownership interest.  (And given that I bought into SSR to stay in Treehouse Villas, ensuring that the point chart for THVs represents THVs and not THVs + points used to lower 2BRs does matter to me personally, though I can get why people who may love 2BRs and love that Disney lowered 2BR costs may not be happy if this is addressed).
> 
> Now, I believe that all of SSR units are EITHER 2x2 THVs *or* 2-BRs, and that all Studios and 1BRs at SSR are, in fact, lock-offs.  If that's true, then it may be possible in SSR to move points between Studios, 1BRs, 2BRs.  I would in fact have to go look at the master declaration to see what the unit makeups are, and if all SSR units are 3-2BRs.  However, they cannot reallocate points between THVs and 2BRs because of the requirement that points equal % ownership.
> 
> But other resorts - say, for example, CCV, where a unit might be a cabin, or in the case of some of my contracts, one unit is 2 Dedicated 2BRs; another is 1 LO 2BR and 2 Studios; and another is a Dedicated-2BR and a LO-2BR (and my % of ownership varies even when the # of points is the same, due to the size differences in units), the point allocation probably requires points to remain within vacation villa types in order to ensure that # of points = unit % ownership


Regarding the part in bold, can you please clarify where you have found it?
The POS always talks about balancing Vacation homes and units. The Florida law always talks about Timeshare Units. I have never found a requirement regarding the whole resort.
The need to balance the whole resort was a common (I think) misconception shared on this board at the time the SSR THV reallocation was done, that's one of the reson no one complained. But I've not found it anywhere in legal documents, which doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I have always found only reference to a classic timeshare with weeks sold and for point systems just a few sentences. I have not been able to find any detailed regulation about point systems in Florida law.


----------



## eMoneyBug

nuhusky123 said:


> nov direct sales were disappointing, riv sold below avg at 64k points. Only 36% of riv points have been sold to date



So Riv has been selling for 2 years?  Do we feel they are ahead/behind or on schedule based on how many points RIV has to sell?


----------



## Nabas

nuhusky123 said:


> Prediction
> 
> nov direct sales were disappointing, riv sold below avg at 64k points. Only 36% of riv points have been sold to date
> 
> gfv2 sales price point will be $201 with better than riv incentives day 1 then incentives matching riv after initial sales
> 
> consequences of overpricing gfv
> 
> if dvc prices gfv above $201 I’d predict equal to lower than riv monthly sales. Let’s say they do 50k points a month. It would take dvc 40 months to sell all gfv points. Dvc will want to close gfv much faster than 40 months especially given any sales into gfv will reduce riv sales. So where riv did 64k points in nov, with gfv in play you can probably expect to half riv sale volumes.
> 
> so there it is, gfv goes on sale at an identical price point to riv


I suspect that when they announced VGF2 in May 2021, corporate Disney expected COVID to be winding down by now, and that there would be a surge in vacationers by now.

In May 2021, COVID rates were plunging and Disney was ending its outdoor mask mandate.

Makes me wonder if they still would have announced it if they knew there was going to be at least two more surges.


----------



## nuhusky123

Covid has changed the dvc pool of buyers dramatically. There may be the odd crazy but 99% of buyers will be domestic. Even Canadians will be questioning a dvc purchase when Canada keeps threatening to shut down the boarders. Even with Omni Canada is dangling the risk of shutting the boarders. No way would I as an international risk spending my money on a dvc timeshare that I most likely wouldn’t get to use, and if i do the effort to plan a USA trip likely being quite extensive and more expensive than usual


I think it’s safe to say they are way off their numbers, proof being the cancellation of reflections and that riv is only 36% sold

i expect dvc will move forward with gfv as it’s a cheap conversion and even depressed sales results in $. But the numbers are going from bad to worse for dvc

lets play a game and say the domestic market can support 65k points a month, going off of riv sales. Adding gfv isn’t going to increase demand per say just add more supply therefore sales if evenly split between riv and gfv that gives dvc 30k and change of sales per month at each resort

that looks terrible

so let’s now play another game and say riv stays at $201 while gfv sells for $250 as some current owners hope

riv sales stay more or less stagnant while gfv sales are pitifully low. Let’s say 50k for riv and 15k a month for gfv.

this looks even worse to Disney execs. I wouldn’t want to be the poor sod who has to present monthly sales numbers with the Premier resort selling sub 20k

this all but assures gfv price point has to be inline with riv otherwise dvc lays a big goose egg and execs get fired


----------



## davidl81

eMoneyBug said:


> So Riv has been selling for 2 years?  Do we feel they are ahead/behind or on schedule based on how many points RIV has to sell?


Oh they are way behind schedule, but that’s largely because of covid.  It was doing fairly okay before that.  I think DVC got a little ahead of itself and priced RIV too high once Covid started to slow down, but that’s just me.


----------



## Nabas

davidl81 said:


> Oh they are way behind schedule, but that’s largely because of covid.  It was doing fairly okay before that.  I think DVC got a little ahead of itself and priced RIV too high once Covid started to slow down, but that’s just me.


As you note, RIV says were on par with previous DVC sales until COVID hit.



It's hard to imagine VGF2 sales not being severely impacted if market conditions remain the same.


----------



## nuhusky123

im Going to maintain the market today supports roughly 64k a month. gfv is going to reduce sales at riv. Dvc won’t tolerate poor sales at either resort so prices have to reflect an attractive price point


nuhusky123 said:


> Covid has changed the dvc pool of buyers dramatically. There may be the odd crazy but 99% of buyers will be domestic. Even Canadians will be questioning a dvc purchase when Canada keeps threatening to shut down the boarders. Even with Omni Canada is dangling the risk of shutting the boarders. No way would I as an international risk spending my money on a dvc timeshare that I most likely wouldn’t get to use, and if i do the effort to plan a USA trip likely being quite extensive and more expensive than usual
> 
> 
> I think it’s safe to say they are way off their numbers, proof being the cancellation of reflections and that riv is only 36% sold
> 
> i expect dvc will move forward with gfv as it’s a cheap conversion and even depressed sales results in $. But the numbers are going from bad to worse for dvc
> 
> lets play a game and say the domestic market can support 65k points a month, going off of riv sales. Adding gfv isn’t going to increase demand per say just add more supply therefore sales if evenly split between riv and gfv that gives dvc 30k and change of sales per month at each resort
> 
> that looks terrible
> 
> so let’s now play another game and say riv stays at $201 while gfv sells for $250 as some current owners hope
> 
> riv sales stay more or less stagnant while gfv sales are pitifully low. Let’s say 50k for riv and 15k a month for gfv.
> 
> this looks even worse to Disney execs. I wouldn’t want to be the poor sod who has to present monthly sales numbers with the Premier resort selling sub 20k
> 
> this all but assures gfv price point has to be inline with riv otherwise dvc lays a big goose egg and execs get fired



correcting price point, just noticed riv and alu both increase to $207 in March. Willing to wager this is done for gfv, sales started at gfv shortly thereafter.

first months incentives will be high


----------



## Doberge

nuhusky123 said:


> Covid has changed the dvc pool of buyers dramatically. There may be the odd crazy but 99% of buyers will be domestic. Even Canadians will be questioning a dvc purchase when Canada keeps threatening to shut down the boarders. Even with Omni Canada is dangling the risk of shutting the boarders. No way would I as an international risk spending my money on a dvc timeshare that I most likely wouldn’t get to use, and if i do the effort to plan a USA trip likely being quite extensive and more expensive than usual
> 
> 
> I think it’s safe to say they are way off their numbers, proof being the cancellation of reflections and that riv is only 36% sold
> 
> i expect dvc will move forward with gfv as it’s a cheap conversion and even depressed sales results in $. But the numbers are going from bad to worse for dvc
> 
> lets play a game and say the domestic market can support 65k points a month, going off of riv sales. Adding gfv isn’t going to increase demand per say just add more supply therefore sales if evenly split between riv and gfv that gives dvc 30k and change of sales per month at each resort
> 
> that looks terrible
> 
> so let’s now play another game and say riv stays at $201 while gfv sells for $250 as some current owners hope
> 
> riv sales stay more or less stagnant while gfv sales are pitifully low. Let’s say 50k for riv and 15k a month for gfv.
> 
> this looks even worse to Disney execs. I wouldn’t want to be the poor sod who has to present monthly sales numbers with the Premier resort selling sub 20k
> 
> this all but assures gfv price point has to be inline with riv otherwise dvc lays a big goose egg and execs get fired



Selling Grand Floridian is a layup for Disney. Walkable Magic Kingdom resort that sells at a premium because it's popular. The "sold out" prices are higher to discourage purchases so I don't think VGF will officially sell at whatever it's been listed lately, but maybe start at that price and then have incentives to lower the price. That said, I don't remember the last time they've actively sold two resorts with different starting prices (see Aulani at samenstarting price with bigger incentives than Riviera.) Maybe while selling VGF and Riviera they just have better incentives at Riviera. 

Or they will be prices differently as a test because they'll surely want to milk every dollar our of Disneyland Hotel DVC as rhey can get.


----------



## Sandisw

zavandor said:


> Regarding the part in bold, can you please clarify where you have found it?
> The POS always talks about balancing Vacation homes and units. The Florida law always talks about Timeshare Units. I have never found a requirement regarding the whole resort.
> The need to balance the whole resort was a common (I think) misconception shared on this board at the time the SSR THV reallocation was done, that's one of the reson no one complained. But I've not found it anywhere in legal documents, which doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I have always found only reference to a classic timeshare with weeks sold and for point systems just a few sentences. I have not been able to find any detailed regulation about point systems in Florida law.



I have not yet found much regarding point based systems in FL laws yet either. Why I have it on my January to do list to try to reach out to FL timeshare or legislative people who can help.


----------



## Sandisw

eMoneyBug said:


> So Riv has been selling for 2 years?  Do we feel they are ahead/behind or on schedule based on how many points RIV has to sell?



I think it’s hard to tell because Covid hit 3 months after it opened when sales were strong.  IMO, based on the overall low numbers, I think it is holding It’s own given the climate.

 I am sure it’s behind where it would have been had 2020 not happened.  One  thing that will be interesting when VGF2 goes on sale is to see how that does in comparison to RIV.

But I agree that if sales remain down, the pricing for VGF has to come in lower if they want to sell it.


----------



## nuhusky123

Doberge said:


> Selling Grand Floridian is a layup for Disney. Walkable Magic Kingdom resort that sells at a premium because it's popular. The "sold out" prices are higher to discourage purchases so I don't think VGF will officially sell at whatever it's been listed lately, but maybe start at that price and then have incentives to lower the price. That said, I don't remember the last time they've actively sold two resorts with different starting prices (see Aulani at samenstarting price with bigger incentives than Riviera.) Maybe while selling VGF and Riviera they just have better incentives at Riviera.
> 
> Or they will be prices differently as a test because they'll surely want to milk every dollar our of Disneyland Hotel DVC as rhey can get.



dvc are showing us their hand, gfv sales start at $207 and identical to the other two resorts. Incentives are how dvc encourage sales at one resort or another and in turn create a sense of immediacy


----------



## Sandisw

nuhusky123 said:


> dvc are showing us their hand, gfv sales start at $207 and identical to the other two resorts. Incentives are how dvc encourage sales at one resort or another and in turn create a sense of immediacy



Where did you see RIV is going to $207?


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

davidl81 said:


> Oh they are way behind schedule, but that’s largely because of covid.  It was doing fairly okay before that.  I think DVC got a little ahead of itself and priced RIV too high once Covid started to slow down, but that’s just me.


The last 7 annual increases have all been between 2.9% and 3.7% - hardly a sign of unmanageable greed.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

Sandisw said:


> Where did you see RIV is going to $207?


https://disneyvacationclub.disney.go.com/savings/

You better hurry! The price-per Vacation Point increases from $201 to $207 at Aulani, Disney Vacation Club Villias, Ko Olina, Hawaiʻi and Disney’s Riveria Resort starting Febuary 3, 2022.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

I’m officially putting my opening bid for VGF 2 at $215.


----------



## nuhusky123

You better hurry! The price-per Vacation Point increases from $201 to $207 at Aulani, Disney Vacation Club Villias, Ko Olina, Hawaiʻi and Disney’s Riveria Resort starting Febuary 3, 2022.


----------



## nuhusky123

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> I’m officially putting my opening bid for VGF 2 at $215.



how does dvc support having 1 resort cost more than their other resorts. is riv less of a resort therefore worth less money?

 my money remains on $207


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

nuhusky123 said:


> how does dvc support having 1 resort cost more than their other resorts. is riv less of a resort therefore worth less money?
> 
> my money remains on $207


They’ve done it repeatedly.


----------



## nuhusky123

What resorts on sale at the same time have had different prices? I legit don’t know

not for sold out resorts but actively for sale resorts


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

nuhusky123 said:


> What resorts on sale at the same time have had different prices? I legit don’t know
> 
> not for sold out resorts but actively for sale resorts


Well for one they did it at VGF about a year after it went on sale. It was more than Aulani for the last ~10 months it was in active sales.

BLT repeatedly went through periods where it was premium prices to the other active resorts.


----------



## nuhusky123

Was blt active at the time or just having the odd sale like beach club just did?


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

nuhusky123 said:


> Was blt active at the time or just having the odd sale like beach club just did?


Active. See contemporaneous sources like https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/dvc-announces-blt-and-treehouse-villas.352739/?amp=1


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> I’m officially putting my opening bid for VGF 2 at $215.



I think they just showed what the base price will be for VGF.  Only question is what the incentives will be.


----------



## Sandisw

KAT4DISNEY said:


> I think they just showed what the base price will be for VGF.  Only question is what the incentives will be.



Can you expand on what you are thinking? Do you think it will be $207?


----------



## Ssplashhmtn

nuhusky123 said:


> how does dvc support having 1 resort cost more than their other resorts. is riv less of a resort therefore worth less money?


yes


----------



## Lorana

zavandor said:


> Regarding the part in bold, can you please clarify where you have found it?
> The POS always talks about balancing Vacation homes and units. The Florida law always talks about Timeshare Units. I have never found a requirement regarding the whole resort.
> The need to balance the whole resort was a common (I think) misconception shared on this board at the time the SSR THV reallocation was done, that's one of the reson no one complained. But I've not found it anywhere in legal documents, which doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I have always found only reference to a classic timeshare with weeks sold and for point systems just a few sentences. I have not been able to find any detailed regulation about point systems in Florida law.


@drubsa lays out the legal arguments very well in two other posts:
https://www.disboards.com/threads/f...the-point-charts.3811362/page-2#post-62278348https://www.disboards.com/threads/2023-point-charts-released.3862115/post-63603584
First, DVC marketed and sold their system based on point values never changing. There is legal precedence (if cases ruled in favor of owners) that doing so requires you to abide by those terms.

Second, the point system represents ownership to a unit (defined in pos, master declaration and your contract), which represents the amount of time you can reserve in your unit for a year. FL statues require 1-for-1, meaning that there cannot be more nights available to book in a year than 365 (nor less); your ownership must represent your ownership. The POS lays out the rules for the guaranteed minimum # of points to book a Villa type and defines that if seasons were flattened, all rooms would cost the same - thus, that guaranteed point cost must represent the flattened per night cost, which therefore represents the points to book all nights in the resort for the year. Points declared literally equals the points required to book all units for 365 days per year, per the terms of the POS, and FL statute therefore also requires that those points must be consistent year over year, as those points represent the 1-for-1 ownership. Some people argue declared points and point charts aren’t the same; legally, however, that’s not true. The POS is very explicit that points represent ownership which represents your ability to book your owned interest in the resort, and that because points represent ownership, the declared points equal the total points to book all rooms in a resort in a year. Thus, declared points must represent total points in point charts, normal calendar variations (such as leap year and number of weekend nights) as an exception. 

Note: I’m not a lawyer. I’d also recommend reading drubsa’s posts as he lays it out better than my very quick attempt at replying to explain a complicated subject.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

Sandisw said:


> Can you expand on what you are thinking? Do you think it will be $207?



Yes that is my guess at least assuming it does go on sale in the Feb-April timeframe.  And I'd expect them to do a big marketing campaign for current owners with good sized discounts to kick off the sales.


----------



## DVCPAT

nuhusky123 said:


> how does dvc support having 1 resort cost more than their other resorts. is riv less of a resort therefore worth less money?
> 
> my money remains on $207


Look at what RIV and GFV are selling for in the resale market. GFV is selling for $40-$50 more than RIV. …Thats the market speaking. Disney was also selling GFV points at approx the same level above RIV. Disney is going to price GFV2 based on its location to MK. RIV is near Bonnet Creek… it’s not a prime location.


----------



## nuhusky123

DVCPAT said:


> Look at what RIV and GFV are selling for in the resale market. GFV is selling for $40-$50 more than RIV. …Thats the market speaking. Disney was also selling GFV points at approx the same level above RIV. Disney is going to price GFV2 based on its location to MK. RIV is near Bonnet Creek… it’s not a prime location.



you can’t use resale market as an indicator of price, you are comparing a sold out resort to an active resort

the law of supply and demand are in play. Riv has lots of supply so prices reflect

gfv supply is limited to resale market only so prices can be set higher

 basic economics dude


----------



## DVCPAT

nuhusky123 said:


> you can’t use resale market as an indicator of price, you are comparing a sold out resort to an active resort
> 
> the law of supply and demand are in play. Riv has lots of supply so prices reflect
> 
> gfv supply is limited to resale market only so prices can be set higher
> 
> basic economics dude


I would say points are always available. Disney can acquire them at will. 
Keep in mind MK is the most popular theme park in the world. Disney will price the resort as if it’s walking distance to the most popular theme park in the world…dude


----------



## JETSDAD

DVCPAT said:


> I would say points are always available. Disney can acquire them at will.
> Keep in mind MK is the most popular theme park in the world. Disney will price the resort as if it’s walking distance to the most popular theme park in the world…dude


They were only selling 1000-2000 pts/month at VGF at the sold out pricing.  They will need to sell far more than that when they go live with the new building.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

DVCPAT said:


> Look at what RIV and GFV are selling for in the resale market. GFV is selling for $40-$50 more than RIV. …Thats the market speaking. Disney was also selling GFV points at approx the same level above RIV. Disney is going to price GFV2 based on its location to MK. RIV is near Bonnet Creek… it’s not a prime location.


Riviera has no ability to use at other resorts resale. VGF can be used at 14 resorts. It’s an incomparable product.

in any case, my thinking is that Disney will price to move, not price to maximize, because they have another DVC coming online ~10-15 months later, and they will almost certainly launch DHV with 3 other resorts in active sales, a situation they will want to minimize the duration of.

Because the margins are so big to begin with, DVC maximizes revenue by doing as much as possible, not by charging as high a price as possible.


----------



## nuhusky123

DVCPAT said:


> I would say points are always available. Disney can acquire them at will.
> Keep in mind MK is the most popular theme park in the world. Disney will price the resort as if it’s walking distance to the most popular theme park in the world…dude



no polite way to say this but you are wrong

disney cannot produce new supply for gfv until gfv2. Let’s say they sold 1m points in gfv1. That number is not going to get bigger, nor will it get smaller. Thereby supply is limited

price Can be set by other conditions such as location. But the biggest driver of price is supply. you have lots of supply, price will be lower.  You have less supply price can be higher


----------



## DVCPAT

JETSDAD said:


> They were only selling 1000-2000 pts/month at VGF at the sold out pricing.  They will need to sell far more than that when they go live with the new building.


Disney was not pushing GFV points and steered buyers toward active sale resorts. That won’t be the case when GFV2 goes on sale


Epcot Forever Forever said:


> Riviera has no ability to use at other resorts resale. VGF can be used at 14 resorts. It’s an incomparable product.
> 
> in any case, my thinking is that Disney will price to move, not price to maximize, because they have another DVC coming online ~10-15 months later, and they will almost certainly launch DHV with 3 other resorts in active sales, a situation they will want to minimize the duration of.
> 
> Because the margins are so big to begin with, DVC maximizes revenue by doing as much as possible, not by charging as high a price as possible.


i agree.. other factors hurt RIV. They spent a ton of money on gondolas to overcome the location. I don’t see Disney pricing GFV2 at or near what resales are selling for.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

DVCPAT said:


> Look at what RIV and GFV are selling for in the resale market. GFV is selling for $40-$50 more than RIV. …Thats the market speaking. Disney was also selling GFV points at approx the same level above RIV. Disney is going to price GFV2 based on its location to MK. RIV is near Bonnet Creek… it’s not a prime location.



The markets are not actually the same though.  VGF hasn't been for sale direct for several months so resale is the only way to get points there.  ie the supply side is restricted compared to Riviera. 

We have yet to see DVC really differentiate on base price of _current_ resorts they have for sale.   A little different incentive here and there but that's generally been it for difference the majority of the time.    They don't want to say one is better or worse than the other as all they really care about is selling points for a profit.


----------



## DVCPAT

nuhusky123 said:


> no polite way to say this but you are wrong
> 
> disney cannot produce new supply for gfv until gfv2. Let’s say they sold 1m points in gfv1. That number is not going to get bigger, nor will it get smaller. Thereby supply is limited
> 
> price Can be set by other conditions such as location. But the biggest driver of price is supply. you have lots of supply, price will be lower.  You have less supply price can be higher


We’ll see if I’m wrong. I’ve been wrong before. I’d like to be wrong and see Disney curb inflation. One thing I noticed last week in WDW is a lot of families with grandpa and grandma. They have money and love To be near the theme parks.


----------



## nuhusky123

Don’t get me wrong, price can be set higher due to location or name brand of gfv. but Using resale market as price indicator is a false metric


----------



## davidl81

Why would Disney not do the same thing they have done every other time they bring a new resort online, price it for the exact same base price as the other scribe resort they will be replacing?


----------



## DVCPAT

nuhusky123 said:


> Don’t get me wrong, price can be set higher due to location or name brand of gfv. but Using resale market as price indicator is a false metric


Can you give one example of a timeshare developer selling new contract within 5% of the resale market?


----------



## Paul Stupin

If DVC were to price GFV in a substantially higher range than Riviera, with two million points to sell, they wouldn’t sell any! And they’ll make  a ton with the 150 point minimum no matter what the price.

But since the best price will be incentive based for higher point purchases, I’m not convinced pricing will go down much for smaller point contracts on the resale market.


----------



## Paul Stupin

DVCPAT said:


> Can you give one example of a timeshare developer selling new contract within 5% of the resale market?


I don’t think the comparison is applicable here. DVC is unique in the timeshare world. Can you give me one example of a timeshare other than Disney that even has a  resale market anywhere near as robust? But the resale market volume is insignificant in comparison to the amount of points Disney will be selling. They have to price them to move.

If anything, your argument might indicate a downward trend in resale contract prices once VGF2 goes on sale.

I also don’t think there’s any timeshare out there for sale under similar circumstances.


----------



## DVCPAT

Paul Stupin said:


> If DVC were to price GFV in a substantially higher range than Riviera, with two million points to sell, they wouldn’t sell any! And they’ll make  a ton with the 150 point minimum no matter what the price.
> 
> But since the best price will be incentive based for higher point purchases, I’m not convinced pricing will go down much for smaller point contracts on the resale market.


I’m curious, when you bought into DVC, did you ask how many points remain in this resort?? I’ve bought a few contracts and that question never entered my mind.


----------



## DVCPAT

Paul Stupin said:


> I don’t think the comparison is applicable here. DVC is unique in the timeshare world. Can you give me one example of a timeshare other than Disney that even has a  resale market anywhere near as robust?
> 
> If anything, your argument might indicate a downward trend in resale contract prices once VGF2 goes on sale.
> 
> I also don’t think there’s any timeshare out there for sale under similar circumstances.


DVC price will always correlate with resort room rates. If a resort has a following and is located next to the most popular theme park in the world, people will pay a premium. Disney approves each resale… they know what people will pay.


----------



## Paul Stupin

DVCPAT said:


> DVC price will always correlate with resort room rates. If a resort has a following and is located next to the most popular theme park in the world, people will pay a premium. Disney approves each resale… they know what people will pay.


Agreed And they know what people won’t pay as well.


----------



## Paul Stupin

DVCPAT said:


> I’m curious, when you bought into DVC, did you ask how many points remain in this resort?? I’ve bought a few contracts and that question never entered my mind.


I actually did have a rough idea for my 3 home resorts…CCV, VGF and Aulani. CCV I knew was close to selling out, VGF was sold out, and Aulani then like now was a ways away.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

DVCPAT said:


> Can you give one example of a timeshare developer selling new contract within 5% of the resale market?


For a while VGC was priced below the resale market. Resale is finally falling again on that though.


----------



## TinkAgainU

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> For a while VGC was priced below the resale market. Resale is finally falling again on that though.


 
Hard to imagine direct being cheaper than resale, unless the required direct points was so high it blew people off.

(p.s. I love your tagline lol)


----------



## Paul Stupin

It might be hard to imagine but I think it’s  very possible. What a limited number of buyers are willing to pay for a limited number of available points is kind of insignificant in comparison to marketing two million available points to a far larger pool of buyers.
And the higher resale price would evaporate pretty quickly, especially for higher point contracts that could very well be more expensive than buying the same number of points direct with incentives.

Interesting how I’m reading fewer and fewer posts predicting VGF2 points will be priced unreasonably high.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

TinkAgainU said:


> Hard to imagine direct being cheaper than resale, unless the required direct points was so high it blew people off.
> 
> (p.s. I love your tagline lol)


VGC resale pricing jumped ~$120 in about a year. Disney, who presumably needs to get 27 sign-offs on every price change (if they’re like anywhere I’ve ever worked), simply couldn’t keep up.


----------



## davidl81

DVCPAT said:


> Can you give one example of a timeshare developer selling new contract within 5% of the resale market?


I literally bought 300 AUL direct points from DVC a few weeks ago for the same price as the average resale there.

And as so many other people have mentioned resale inventory and direct inventory levels are totally different animals.  At any given time there my be what 5,000-10,000 VGF points in total available for resale (and that number may be high), where DVC will need to sell 2M points.  If  DVC was to only sell 5-10k of VGF points a month it would be a huge failure.


----------



## Vulnox

I was going to ask how it could be possible for an available item on resale to match buying an available item direct, but the 150 point requirement makes a bit of sense. If you have a set budget and 100 points are it, then you would seek out the resale route. I guess it surprises me that there are that many people with a 149 or lower point requirement for their budget that would be fine paying such high prices. I wonder if part of it is that Disney is buying up so many in ROFR at a higher price and it is forcing higher bids and higher prices to try and bypass it which combined with the 150 point requirement is changing the market. Word gets out that Disney is ROFR at $150, so people are advised to post at $160, and so on.

It's fascinating whatever the driver is. It makes sense how a two year old F-150 can go for near MSRP when new F-150 inventories are scarce, because it's a scare commodity on the new market side but demand and need is high. But for something that is somewhat "virtual" like points (although with a cap of course, but I am not talking about resorts Disney won't sell direct right now).


----------



## BWV Dreamin

The 150 pt. minimum direct in and of itself makes buying VGF resale a winner, assuming you want less than 150 pts.  However, if it’s going to be an add on that’s a different story. Really it just depends on what types of buyers there are.
I just perused the resale companies ( top 4) and there are not that many for sale under 100 pts, and  only a few at 100-150. I just don’t Disney selling new points at resales prices. It’s not like VGF resales are not selling. Again, they are not going to leave money on the table.


----------



## Paul Stupin

BWV Dreamin said:


> The 150 pt. minimum direct in and of itself makes buying VGF resale a winner, assuming you want less than 150 pts.  However, if it’s going to be an add on that’s a different story. Really it just depends on what types of buyers there are.
> I just perused the resale companies ( top 4) and there are not that many for sale under 100 pts, and  only a few at 100-150. I just don’t Disney selling new points at resales prices. It’s not like VGF resales are not selling. Again, they are not going to leave money on the table.


 Current resale prices won’t factor into VGF2 pricing.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

Paul Stupin said:


> Current resale prices won’t factor into VGF2 pricing.


You have no concrete data on that. DVC indirectly affects resale pricing with their direct pricing. Oh BTW, rumor has it another price increase in February. Yep, propping up that VGF new direct pricing alright.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

BWV Dreamin said:


> You have no concrete data on that. DVC indirectly affects resale pricing with their direct pricing. Oh BTW, rumor has it another price increase in February. Yep, propping up that VGF new direct pricing alright.


Not a rumor, it’s on the DVC Website


----------



## BWV Dreamin

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> Not a rumor, it’s on the DVC Website


Wow, thanks for the update. Get ready folks.


----------



## nuhusky123

BWV Dreamin said:


> Wow, thanks for the update. Get ready folks.



read up thread new price is $207. betting This will also be the gfv price and dvc will differentiate between their 3 active resorts using incentives

also likely gfv goes on sale in the March timeframe


----------



## davidl81

BWV Dreamin said:


> Wow, thanks for the update. Get ready folks.


Get ready for what?  The price increase from $201 to $207 is one of their normal annual price increases.  I still fully expect VGF to list at that same $207 price and then Disney will adjust incentives as they see fit.


----------



## Paul Stupin

davidl81 said:


> Get ready for what?  The price increase from $201 to $207 is one of their normal annual price increases.  I still fully expect VGF to list at that same $207 price and then Disney will adjust incentives as they see fit.


Agreed.


----------



## Paul Stupin

BWV Dreamin said:


> You have no concrete data on that. DVC indirectly affects resale pricing with their direct pricing. Oh BTW, rumor has it another price increase in February. Yep, propping up that VGF new direct pricing alright.


Agreed that DVC indirectly affects resale pricing. So when the VGF2 prices are finally announced in the $207 range, probably less with incentives, resale prices for larger point contracts will go down.


----------



## nuhusky123

It’s interesting how a % of this forum want gfv pricing to be high. I can only guess because they own and want the value of their ownership to increase or at least maintain buy in value

i admit I want pricing to be as low as possible but objectively the data is pointing to $207


----------



## Paul Stupin

nuhusky123 said:


> It’s interesting how a % of this forum want gfv pricing to be high. I can only guess because they own and want the value of their ownership to increase or at least maintain buy in value
> 
> i admit I want pricing to be as low as possible but objectively the data is pointing to $207


And maybe lower with incentives.


----------



## RoseGold

I was just in the parks and almost all of the DVC kiosks are staffed up.  Obviously, they think they can sell something.  The recent BW/Aulani fire sale was confusing to me, I've never had reverse sticker shock for Disney!  DVC is confusing me with their pricing strategy, but I still say VGF will be high.

No new project has been announced.  To me, that means VGF is in no hurry to sell through.  If they sell through VGF, they'll have nothing new to show off, and they'll be stuck again with their old friends Aulani and RIV.  They don't need an army of timeshare salesmen to sell undervalued product.


----------



## Paul Stupin

RoseGold said:


> I was just in the parks and almost all of the DVC kiosks are staffed up.  Obviously, they think they can sell something.  The recent BW/Aulani fire sale was confusing to me, I've never had reverse sticker shock for Disney!  DVC is confusing me with their pricing strategy, but I still say VGF will be high.
> 
> No new project has been announced.  To me, that means VGF is in no hurry to sell through.  If they sell through VGF, they'll have nothing new to show off, and they'll be stuck again with their old friends Aulani and RIV.  They don't need an army of timeshare salesmen to sell undervalued product.


Undervalued product? Huh? They’ve established a going rate, and if they don’t stay in its general vicinity, they won’t sell it.


----------



## DVCsloth

I think they de-valued it when they announced studios only. It should sell pretty well in the $200 range, but I doubt I will be adding on.


----------



## Sandisw

DVCsloth said:


> I think they de-valued it when they announced studios only. It should sell pretty well in the $200 range, but I doubt I will be adding on.



I also think the studios becoming a major part of the rooms will temper the price As it won’t be the same small resort where you may not need home resort advantage anymore to stay there.

Unlike you, though, I will be adding on so hoping that $207 happens! LOL


----------



## DVCsloth

Sandisw said:


> I also think the studios becoming a major part of the rooms will temper the price As it won’t be the same small resort where you may not need home resort advantage anymore to stay there.
> 
> Unlike you, though, I will be adding on so hoping that $207 happens! LOL


Should be $207 for current owners with some sort of incentive I would guess. I will most likely keep my current points there but more than likely not add on. VGF is my favorite and I'm certain VGF2 will be nice. I was initially excited about VGF2 but when I found out 'Studios Only" I lost interest in adding on. I never knew that that could drastically change the balance of a resort like that. I still love the resort and will continue to stay there and I'm really looking forward to having the walking path when the monorail or boat is a long wait!


----------



## Sandisw

DVCsloth said:


> Should be $207 for current owners with some sort of incentive I would guess. I will most likely keep my current points there but more than likely not add on. VGF is my favorite and I'm certain VGF2 will be nice. I was initially excited about VGF2 but when I found out 'Studios Only" I lost interest in adding on. I never knew that that could drastically change the balance of a resort like that. I still love the resort and will continue to stay there and I'm really looking forward to having the walking path when the monorail or boat is a long wait!



I love the path.  That is my main reason for adding on there so we have an MK resort again and while my primary use will be the larger units every other year, if we have to do multiple studios for each family, that will be fine too as it won’t be more than a 3 night stay to add on to the few nights we will do at RIV too.


----------



## CarolMN

The path is a big factor in my desire to own there, too.  We walked to the GF from BLT for a breakfast at the GF Cafe, one morning.  It's a pretty walk, although I wouldn't want to do it during the warmer parts of the day.

The resort studios will be fine for the two of us.  We'd stay 2 or 3 nights before we move to our 1B at BWV .


----------



## DVCsloth

I wish they would have made it a separate association and not changed the overall balance of the resort. This will be good for people who book studios at the busy DVC times which is what we used to do in early December until the walking got to be really popular.  We ended up switching to 1br and that is my biggest concern because we like to stay 7 nights in a 1br now and are hoping that we don't start having a hard time booking. We usually book right at 11 months so hopefully we won't get shut out. We have been using our VGF points to book at Riviera and CCV which is our other home, so we haven't been to VGF since the shutdowns and used the walking path. Can't wait!


----------



## Paul Stupin

We bought VGF not only because its beautifully themed and it’s own little world, but also because of the walking path. We love it!


----------



## sethschroeder

Riviera won't even be $207 by March likely. I would expect another price increase coming by then.


----------



## nuhusky123

sethschroeder said:


> Riviera won't even be $207 by March likely. I would expect another price increase coming by then.


So you predict a late feb increase of riv to $207 followed by another in march

hogwash


----------



## DVChris

sethschroeder said:


> Riviera won't even be $207 by March likely. I would expect another price increase coming by then.


Riviera (and Aulani) increases to $207 on 2/3
https://disneyvacationclub.disney.go.com/savings/


----------



## Paul Stupin

Why do so many people want the VGF2 price so high, and seem to be rooting for Riviera  direct to go higher? For me, it runs counter to the generally amiable spirit on these boards.
If it’s to protect the resale prices of existing contracts, I truly think it’s too late. They’re going to go down. I think VGF resale prices  in particular are currently in a bit of a bubble that’s going to pop when  VGF2 direct prices are announced. Have no idea how much they’ll go down, but they will go down. We should probably come to terms with that.


----------



## Sandisw

Paul Stupin said:


> Why do so many people want the VGF2 price so high, and seem to be rooting for Riviera  direct to go higher? For me, it runs counter to the generally amiable spirit on these boards.
> If it’s to protect the resale prices of existing contracts, I truly think it’s too late. They’re going to go down. I think VGF resale prices  in particular are currently in a bit of a bubble that’s going to pop when  VGF2 direct prices are announced. Have no idea how much they’ll go down, but they will go down. We should probably come to terms with that.



TBH, I don't get it either.  I realize that direct prices have always been more than resale, but it would make little sense for DVD to price their product too high that it will have trouble selling just to make sure there is a larger spread with resale?? 

As you have mentioned several times, there is a difference to selling a few thousand points a month to wanting to sell 2 million points.  If the sales for RIV are disappointing them...I personally don't think they are...and the goal to adding VGF was to increase revenue to combat low RIV sales, then they are not going to price VGF2 too high because then they simply have two WDW resorts not selling well

VGF is a great resort and is #2 on our list after RIV.  But, I just don't think it is so much nicer that it will command the high prices that some think it will.  And, I also agree that resale will go back down to a more reasonable level, especially if getting those new studios at 7 months out becomes pretty easy.


----------



## mort1331

Its not that people want the price to be high, but the question was what do we think it will be. I am still of the thought that it will be higher than Riv even with discounts. It is the flagship.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

Paul Stupin said:


> Why do so many people want the VGF2 price so high, and seem to be rooting for Riviera  direct to go higher? For me, it runs counter to the generally amiable spirit on these boards.
> If it’s to protect the resale prices of existing contracts, I truly think it’s too late. They’re going to go down. I think VGF resale prices  in particular are currently in a bit of a bubble that’s going to pop when  VGF2 direct prices are announced. Have no idea how much they’ll go down, but they will go down. We should probably come to terms with that.



With every new resort there has been predictions that this is when DVC will bump the prices up a lot.  Before Riviera opened for sale there were many who were certain it would start at $200/pt base.   And it actually wasn't the first new resort that people predicted would finally reach that $200/pt magic mark.   I think it may have even been predicted by some way back with the first round of VGF sales.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

sethschroeder said:


> Riviera won't even be $207 by March likely. I would expect another price increase coming by then.



That would be highly unlikely just 1 month after an increase.  Actually unheard of.  I know it seems like Disney raises prices on a daily basis but it's not been quite that bad.


----------



## nuhusky123

Just noticed this text on dvc booking page under gfv section. Nothing we don’t know but now on dvc site

The new Resort Studio accommodations at the Villas at Disney’s Grand Floridian Resort & Spa will be available for booking in spring 2022.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

KAT4DISNEY said:


> That would be highly unlikely just 1 month after an increase.  Actually unheard of.  I know it seems like Disney raises prices on a daily basis but it's not been quite that bad.


It’s been once a year for 7 years now. This is the smallest % price increase in 5 years.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

nuhusky123 said:


> Just noticed this text on dvc booking page under gfv section. Nothing we don’t know but now on dvc site
> 
> The new Resort Studio accommodations at the Villas at Disney’s Grand Floridian Resort & Spa will be available for booking in spring 2022.


I mean they’re definitely going on sale on the day of the Price Increase, right?


----------



## nuhusky123

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> I mean they’re definitely going on sale on the day of the Price Increase, right?



were I a betting man I’d take the odds


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

Paul Stupin said:


> If it’s to protect the resale prices of existing contracts, I truly think it’s too late. They’re going to go down. I think VGF resale prices in particular are currently in a bit of a bubble that’s going to pop when VGF2 direct prices are announced.


I think it’s pretty likely VGF settles at a small premium to Poly. 

Like Poly it will be near MK and mostly studios, but VGF will be hurt pricewise by having slightly more points, but helped slightly by it’s more favorable room mix, and by being *the Grand Floridian*.


----------



## sethschroeder

DVChris said:


> Riviera (and Aulani) increases to $207 on 2/3
> https://disneyvacationclub.disney.go.com/savings/



Ya I thought they had just increased to $207 not that they would threaten a price increase 3 months out.


----------



## nuhusky123

Dvc advertising on Instagram showing up today

best guess this is for gfv2


----------



## pirate33

I’m at WDW now and noticed yesterday images of the Grand Floridian on some of the electronic DVC billboards here.


----------



## DKZB

In past offerings, how soon before it goes on sale does the marketing start showing up?


----------



## Paul Stupin

pirate33 said:


> I’m at WDW now and noticed yesterday images of the Grand Floridian on some of the electronic DVC billboards here.


Finally…I guess we’re getting close!


----------



## Jimmy Geppetto

RoseGold said:


> I was just in the parks and almost all of the DVC kiosks are staffed up.  Obviously, they think they can sell something.  The recent BW/Aulani fire sale was confusing to me, I've never had reverse sticker shock for Disney!  DVC is confusing me with their pricing strategy, but I still say VGF will be high.
> 
> No new project has been announced.  To me, that means VGF is in no hurry to sell through.  If they sell through VGF, they'll have nothing new to show off, and they'll be stuck again with their old friends Aulani and RIV.  They don't need an army of timeshare salesmen to sell undervalued product.



Assuming $190pp at launch, new DVC members would have to fork over $28,500 (150 point minimum) to get into the ball game.  You definitely need an army of salespeople to accomplish 2M points sold.  With the current environment and additional travel restrictions being implemented outside of the USA, that army will have their work cut out for them.


----------



## TinkAgainU

And a minimum 150 points pops that MF up too.  My plans for leaving contracts to family as a legacy has to be tempered with how high of a monthly expense they will have to commit to for the length of the lease ... for families outside of Florida there are fees like airport parking and flights (in addition to the theme park fees and food). You want to leave your family good memories, not a financial burden


----------



## Sandisw

Jimmy Geppetto said:


> Assuming $190pp at launch, new DVC members would have to fork over $28,500 (150 point minimum) to get into the ball game.  You definitely need an army of salespeople to accomplish 2M points sold.  With the current environment and additional travel restrictions being implemented outside of the USA, that army will have their work cut out for them.



I have mentioned this several times that I think that was the reason for the increase in minimum to 150 vs. 125. It allows them to offer it at a lower price which makes it "seem" like a deal when they end up with more that way anyway!!

We are only looking at 80 to 100 points so I doubt we will get incentives.  But, if they start at 125, I MAY be able to convince DH that we need to go that high!!!! LOL


----------



## gisele2

VGF will have the same expiration date than VGF1 right ? So I think they can not price it too high.


----------



## Sandisw

gisele2 said:


> VGF will have the same expiration date than VGF1 right ? So I think they can not price it too high.



Yup.


----------



## hcortesis

Sandisw said:


> I have mentioned this several times that I think that was the reason for the increase in minimum to 150 vs. 125. It allows them to offer it at a lower price which makes it "seem" like a deal when they end up with more that way anyway!


What are you suggesting they end up with more of?  Are you saying that Disney ends up with more money by increasing the minimum  point buy in but at a lower price per point?


----------



## Sandisw

hcortesis said:


> What are you suggesting they end up with more of?  Are you saying that Disney ends up with more money by increasing the minimum  point buy in but at a lower price per point?



Correct. It was $255/point.  With a 125 minimum it would gain them $31875

With a minimum of 150, they get the same amount at $212…and anything beyond that gets them more.

IMO, this helps them start sales much closer to RIV without hurting the bottom line on their end.


----------



## hcortesis

Sandisw said:


> Correct. It was $255/point.  With a 125 minimum it would gain them $31875
> 
> With a minimum of 150, they get the same amount at $212…and anything beyond that gets them more.
> 
> IMO, this helps them start sales much closer to RIV without hurting the bottom line on their end.


Ok, gotcha.  I see what you are getting at.  Just not sure that it doesn't "hurt the bottom line on their end" though.

By the way, I know it's point heavy but I'm looking forward to booking a Theme Park View for next New Years Eve.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

gisele2 said:


> VGF will have the same expiration date than VGF1 right ? So I think they can not price it too high.



All the 2042 resorts after OKW sold for less than 50 years and they even still sell some of those today with 20 years left.   I believe BCV began sales with 40 years to go.  
I do not think that it will be a factor in the pricing.


----------



## Ssplashhmtn

TinkAgainU said:


> And a minimum 150 points pops that MF up too.  My plans for leaving contracts to family as a legacy has to be tempered with how high of a monthly expense they will have to commit to for the length of the lease ... for families outside of Florida there are fees like airport parking and flights (in addition to the theme park fees and food). You want to leave your family good memories, not a financial burden


Nothing to worry about.  I don’t think Disney would force your heirs to take on a financial burden.  They would be happy to accept the contract back and sell those points to someone else.


----------



## Duckbug.Ducktales

Sandisw said:


> We are only looking at 80 to 100 points so I doubt we will get incentives.  But, if they start at 125, I MAY be able to convince DH that we need to go that high!!!! LOL


So is the current thinking that existing DVC members will be able to buy less than 150?


----------



## JETSDAD

Duckbug.Ducktales said:


> So is the current thinking that existing DVC members will be able to buy less than 150?


Probably.  So far they haven't required existing members to buy the new member minimums.


----------



## Lorana

Duckbug.Ducktales said:


> So is the current thinking that existing DVC members will be able to buy less than 150?


If past history holds true, yes. Existing members will likely have a 50-point add-on minimum (given that RIV and CCV required 50 points, not 25, while in active sales).


----------



## CarolynFH

Ssplashhmtn said:


> Nothing to worry about.  I don’t think Disney would force your heirs to take on a financial burden.  They would be happy to accept the contract back and sell those points to someone else.


No one can force heirs to accept any unwanted bequest, including a timeshare contract. Could be a reason not to add kids as owners unless (like Sandi’s kids) they truly want to be owners and accept responsibilities for MFs.


----------



## TinkAgainU

CarolynFH said:


> No one can force heirs to accept any unwanted bequest, including a timeshare contract. Could be a reason not to add kids as owners unless (like Sandi’s kids) they truly want to be owners and accept responsibilities for MFs.



What I was trying to share, more as a point to consider, is that, for younger families who are frequently struggling to make mortgage payments on first homes, etc., leaving a legacy with a high MF (ie a contract for 200 points vs 100 points) means they may feel they need to sell it off to lower monthly/annual expenses - defeating entirely the point of buying it as a legacy.  EVERY family is different, I was just sharing how more is not "always" better in a Legacy situation.  So over-or-under 150 points can push someone to direct or resale prices also.


----------



## AvidDisReader

TinkAgainU said:


> What I was trying to share, more as a point to consider, is that, for younger families who are frequently struggling to make mortgage payments on first homes, etc., leaving a legacy with a high MF (ie a contract for 200 points vs 100 points) means they may feel they need to sell it off to lower monthly/annual expenses - defeating entirely the point of buying it as a legacy.  EVERY family is different, I was just sharing how more is not "always" better in a Legacy situation.


Not trying to be rude, but there is no risk in leaving DVC points as a legacy to heirs.  Unlike other Time Shares, DVC has value and the heirs could just sell them--and for a nice piece of change.  My wife and I have already had discussion with our three adult children regarding this fact.  So if no one wants them/the financial burden, they are all aware that there is a secondary market and the points can be sold.


----------



## CarolynFH

AvidDisReader said:


> Not trying to be rude, but there is no risk in leaving DVC points as a legacy to heirs.  Unlike other Time Shares, DVC has value and the heirs could just sell them--and for a nice piece of change.  My wife and I have already had discussion with our three adult children regarding this fact.  So if no one wants them/the financial burden, they are all aware that there is a secondary market and the points can be sold.


Yes, that's the case today.  No guarantees that it will be true in the future.


----------



## hcortesis

CarolynFH said:


> Yes, that's the case today.  No guarantees that it will be true in the future.


But if you receive them for free, it's pretty difficult not to come out ahead.


----------



## Sandisw

CarolynFH said:


> No one can force heirs to accept any unwanted bequest, including a timeshare contract. Could be a reason not to add kids as owners unless (like Sandi’s kids) they truly want to be owners and accept responsibilities for MFs.



And to add, MFs will be paid for 10 years after we are gone! So, it was a no brainer for them!


----------



## BWV Dreamin

CarolynFH said:


> No one can force heirs to accept any unwanted bequest, including a timeshare contract. Could be a reason not to add kids as owners unless (like Sandi’s kids) they truly want to be owners and accept responsibilities for MFs.


We have our contracts titled in a Living Revocable Trust. Upon our death the heirs can keep them or sell them. They are not forced to take ownership.


----------



## Ssplashhmtn

TinkAgainU said:


> What I was trying to share, more as a point to consider, is that, for younger families who are frequently struggling to make mortgage payments on first homes, etc., leaving a legacy with a high MF (ie a contract for 200 points vs 100 points) means they may feel they need to sell it off to lower monthly/annual expenses - defeating entirely the point of buying it as a legacy.  EVERY family is different, I was just sharing how more is not "always" better in a Legacy situation.  So over-or-under 150 points can push someone to direct or resale prices also.


That’s a really good point to consider.  More isn’t always better.  That is another compelling reason (which I had not considered) for having multiple small contracts, rather than one large contract.  Heirs can then sell off half (for example) on the resale market if the dues burden is too much.


----------



## pirate33

BWV Dreamin said:


> We have our contracts titled in a Living Revocable Trust. Upon our death the heirs can keep them or sell them. They are not forced to take ownership.



Right.  Even for one of the toxic non-DVC timeshares, the heirs are not obligated to accept them or any other obligation/debt.  They can simply decline.  But with DVC, unless there is a monumental change, there would be no reason for them to decline.  They can either enjoy the contract or sell it.


----------



## hhisc16

$255Per Vacation Point
*The Villas at Disney's Grand Floridian Resort & Spa*

Back onto the Add On Tool.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

hhisc16 said:


> $255Per Vacation Point
> *The Villas at Disney's Grand Floridian Resort & Spa*
> 
> Back onto the Add On Tool...


Where in the DVC member website? Wow!!


----------



## hhisc16

BWV Dreamin said:


> Where in the DVC member website? Wow!!


The Add on Tool is where I found it available this morning.


----------



## hhisc16

255x150 pts=$38,250 for a new DVC member at VGF!


----------



## BWV Dreamin

hhisc16 said:


> 255x150 pts=$38,250 for a new DVC member at VGF!


Hahahahaha well I was right! They are not gonna leave money on the table. And you can bet they will increase this ppp sometime after sales open. Just the opening price. We will see some kind of incentives early on. Have to say “ I told ya so!”


----------



## TinkB278

hhisc16 said:


> $255Per Vacation Point
> *The Villas at Disney's Grand Floridian Resort & Spa*
> 
> Back onto the Add On Tool...


Does this mean vgf2 will be on sale soon? I was pretty set on adding on here but I guess not anymore at $255/ pt.


----------



## hhisc16

TinkB278 said:


> Does this mean vgf2 will be on sale soon? I was pretty set on adding on here but I guess not anymore at $255/ pt.


Who knows anymore...
But I did see the 255 add on price tool at VGF.


----------



## kdm31091

That price is just really hard to justify IMO especially with the high point chart. The points cost a lot and don’t go far.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

hhisc16 said:


> $255Per Vacation Point
> *The Villas at Disney's Grand Floridian Resort & Spa*
> 
> Back onto the Add On Tool.


ok but can you actually buy it? The site has been so buggy this week I frankly believe nothing unless someone completes a sale.


----------



## hhisc16

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> ok but can you actually buy it? The site has been so buggy this week I frankly believe nothing unless someone completes a sale.


Maybe someone on here can call their DVC guide and ask...


----------



## nuhusky123

The page specifically lists gfv as limited availability. So they are in effect selling to gfv1 a sold out resort.

still wager price for gfv2 aligns to riv


----------



## BWV Dreamin

nuhusky123 said:


> The page specifically lists gfv as limited availability. So they are in effect selling to gfv1 a sold out resort.
> 
> still wager price for gfv2 aligns to riv


Doesn’t make sense to offer the original VGF at 255/pt but the new VGF2 at a lower price? They are not going to sell points at different prices when they are all a part of the same association.


----------



## nuhusky123

I know you want gfv to be priced high to protect your investment. I don’t think Disney sells squat at $255 and I also see this price for a sold out resort.

law of supply and demand all but requires dvc to adjust the price down unless they are cool sitting on 2,000,000 points for five years


----------



## nuhusky123

At low $200 I would buy gfv, at $255 Disney can take a hike 

I won’t pay that price.  I’ll keep my current contract and augment with paid stays at swan reserve

but I will continue to maintain dvc has to price in low $200s to sell with base price at or near riv. But hey perhaps over at dvc they all failed economics class and think they can sell this.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

nuhusky123 said:


> At low $200 I would buy gfv, at $255 Disney can take a hike
> 
> I won’t pay that price.  I’ll keep my current contract and augment with paid stays at swan reserve
> 
> but I will continue to maintain dvc has to price in low $200s to sell with base price at or near riv. But hey perhaps over at dvc they all failed economics class and think they can sell this.


Well if 255/ pt ends up being the opening price, maybe then we will get microwaves and mini fridges after all


----------



## nuhusky123

For 255 toilet better be made out of gold


----------



## TinkAgainU

I don't know that this adds any useful info - but I just had this pass ROFR today. I've not heard of any VGF that Disney has Taken in the last few months (last posted was taken at $160).  I always thought they might buy one here and there just to show a buyback number?  Maybe I should "help" with their marketing lol.  Sadly, as a Buyer, I can't help but think that Disney just CLEARLY showed they think I'm paying too much ...

$185-$20209-100-VGF-Aug-0/20, 9/21, 200/22, 100/23- Split 2021 Fees 50/50- sent 12/10, passed 1/5


----------



## nuhusky123

TinkAgainU said:


> I don't know that this adds any useful info - but I just had this pass ROFR today. I've not heard of any VGF that Disney has Taken in the last few months (last posted was taken at $160).  I always thought they might buy one here and there just to show a buyback number?  Maybe I should "help" with their marketing lol.  Sadly, as a Buyer, I can't help but think that Disney just CLEARLY showed they think I'm paying too much ...
> 
> $185-$20209-100-VGF-Aug-0/20, 9/21, 200/22, 100/23- Split 2021 Fees 50/50- sent 12/10, passed 1/5



noob question, what did you pay per point?


----------



## hhisc16

nuhusky123 said:


> noob question, what did you pay per point?


185 before maintenance fees and closing costs


----------



## TinkAgainU

nuhusky123 said:


> noob question, what did you pay per point?



I "paid" $185 per point, but if you take my total of $20,209 divided by 100 you get my "real" cost.  Closing costs vary by broker (as do deposit and cancellation terms) - and since it has 100 past points "banked" some would adjust the cost, saying I could sell those extra points for $16 or more each if I'm not using them.  Who pays the management fees can vary too.  Asking prices are often adjusted according to how many points are available ... I'm a Newbie too, but pretty sure that is all correct.


----------



## nuhusky123

If dvc were really going to sell for $255 I’d assume they would have bought your contract and make a good profit flipping it

who knows what dvc is doing. We shall find out shortly though


----------



## JETSDAD

nuhusky123 said:


> If dvc were really going to sell for $255 I’d assume they would have bought your contract and make a good profit flipping it
> 
> who knows what dvc is doing. We shall find out shortly though


Even when they were selling at $255 they were only taking back VGF contracts in the 150's.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

nuhusky123 said:


> If dvc were really going to sell for $255 I’d assume they would have bought your contract and make a good profit flipping it
> 
> who knows what dvc is doing. We shall find out shortly though


Disney has only rarely bought back anything priced above 70% of direct pricing


----------



## Paul Stupin

nuhusky123 said:


> I know you want gfv to be priced high to protect your investment. I don’t think Disney sells squat at $255 and I also see this price for a sold out resort.
> 
> law of supply and demand all but requires dvc to adjust the price down unless they are cool sitting on 2,000,000 points for five years


I agree. My bet is that it’s a glitch.


----------



## nuhusky123

I noticed on dvc there is now a gfv video. Not sure if it’s new, new to me but I grabbed  this screen shot. Note fine print on typical cost. If we assume 150 point minimum buy in $31,000 is $207 a point


----------



## nuhusky123

Also gfv is no longer in the add on tool page. ill double down price is $207. Video reinforces my prediction I believe


----------



## Wedgeout

Wow! Advertising the full kitchen, washer and dryer in larger units, yet these new points are all part of the hotel studio building expansion. I’m starting to feel for owners on availability, getting one bedrooms or larger with more points use competition coming. “Could” expire in 2062. Maybe an extension in the future.


----------



## nuhusky123

The could language was interesting. For full video go to dvc home page. Scroll down for a box on gfv

clearly the add on tool today was a test in advance of gfv going on sale and the price was not updated. im Sure IT had no intention of this going into prod, but they fixed the mistake quickly


----------



## Sandisw

hhisc16 said:


> $255Per Vacation Point
> *The Villas at Disney's Grand Floridian Resort & Spa*
> 
> Back onto the Add On Tool.



Surprised…now let’s see if they add incentives to bring it down when they start official VGF2 sales.


----------



## Sandisw

nuhusky123 said:


> At low $200 I would buy gfv, at $255 Disney can take a hike
> 
> I won’t pay that price.  I’ll keep my current contract and augment with paid stays at swan reserve
> 
> but I will continue to maintain dvc has to price in low $200s to sell with base price at or near riv. But hey perhaps over at dvc they all failed economics class and think they can sell this.



Me too.  I will just add more RIV points direct and hope that I can get in to the resort at 7 months

I would pay slightly more for VGF to have a nome resort advantage…as high as $220..but not interested at $255.


----------



## nuhusky123

Sandisw said:


> Surprised…now let’s see if they add incentives to bring it down when they start official VGF2 sales.


gfv is no longer on the tool, they took it down


----------



## Sandisw

nuhusky123 said:


> I noticed on dvc there is now a gfv video. Not sure if it’s new, new to me but I grabbed  this screen shot. Note fine print on typical cost. If we assume 150 point minimum buy in $31,000 is $207 a point
> 
> View attachment 636065



Posted my other response before seeing this…this leads me to that conclusion too!

ETA:  But, at least this may mean we will see sales start soon!


----------



## TinkB278

But the 150 point minimum will be for nonmembers right?


----------



## nuhusky123

150 for non members, but one has to assume dvc wants more new members buying the 150 points vs us existing members buying smaller contracts 

also words used was typical, we are not typical


----------



## Sandisw

TinkB278 said:


> But the 150 point minimum will be for nonmembers right?



That is the minimum for new owners, or for any current owner who wants a new UY..which makes it a new membership.

Unless they change the add on rules…which currently are at 25 or 50 depending on resort.


----------



## Sandisw

nuhusky123 said:


> 150 for non members, but one has to assume dvc wants more new members buying the 150 points vs us existing members buying smaller contracts
> 
> also words used was typical, we are not typical



Where did you find the link for the video?  I can’t find.  Never mind…I found!


----------



## nuhusky123

https://disneyvacationclub.disney.go.com/villas-at-grand-floridian-resort-and-spa
video is embedded into the gfv picture at top of screen


----------



## Wedgeout

“New and refreshed accommodations”


----------



## Nabas

nuhusky123 said:


> I noticed on dvc there is now a gfv video. Not sure if it’s new, new to me but I grabbed  this screen shot. Note fine print on typical cost. If we assume 150 point minimum buy in $31,000 is $207 a point


Although promising, the fine print doesn't specify a DVC resort - this could simply be the price for the Riviera.

Any idea what the $55,000 corresponds to?  At $207pp, this represents 265 points.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

Nabas said:


> Although promising, the fine print doesn't specify a DVC resort - this could simply be the price for the Riviera.
> 
> Any idea what the $55,000 corresponds to?  At $207pp, this represents 265 points.


I don’t know but the same language is on their general disclaimers page which says it hasn’t been updated since June https://disneyvacationclub.disney.go.com/product-country-disclosures


----------



## TinkAgainU

It does say "on the shores of the magic" and shows the castle in the background - that would not be Riviera.  $55,000 would be about right for points with a little incentive, for a week with a lake view.  From a marketing perspective, always better to show a higher number TOO.  Then the $31,000 looks more reasonable ...


----------



## nuhusky123

TinkAgainU said:


> It does say "on the shores of the magic" and shows the castle in the background - that would not be Riviera.  $55,000 would be about right for points with a little incentive, for a week with a lake view.  From a marketing perspective, always better to show a higher number TOO.  Then the $31,000 looks more reasonable ...


The entire video is gfv, shows the new rooms


----------



## RoseGold

Website really on the struggle bus again.  Can't even watch the propaganda video...


----------



## Chuck96

$55,000 would be $367/point, so obviously that is another vector.  I'm seriously considering at a $31K buy in.  I wouldn't even entertain the notion at much more than that, based on resale options.


----------



## Sandisw

Nabas said:


> Although promising, the fine print doesn't specify a DVC resort - this could simply be the price for the Riviera.
> 
> Any idea what the $55,000 corresponds to?  At $207pp, this represents 265 points.



Is that the highest priced DVC resort? Like is VGC over $300 now?


----------



## nuhusky123

The language said typical contracts range from $31-$55. That makes me believe at $207 people are buying in at 150 points up to 270 points as an avg range for first time new to dvc contracts

the important thing about this language is it does set a floor for pricing


----------



## Sandisw

nuhusky123 said:


> The language said typical contracts range from $31-$55. That makes me believe at $207 people are buying in at 150 points up to 270 points as an avg range for first time new to dvc contracts
> 
> the important thing about this language is it does set a floor for pricing



I bet you are right! The fact that it is with the VGF video, it has to mean something because even RIV is not yet at $207.


----------



## nuhusky123

hard to argue with Math, kind of black and white

150 points we know is the minimum dvc will sell to new buyers

we know prices for riv and aul increase to $207 a point

the gfv video explicitly gives us the cost range of $31,000-$55,000

$207*150=$31,050

thats our base price for gfv


----------



## Nabas

Sandisw said:


> Is that the highest priced DVC resort? Like is VGC over $300 now?


VGC is (I think) $310pp direct.


----------



## zebsterama

Hi everyone, if in fact $207 is the basic per point price for GF out of the gate, what do you think the graduated incentives will look like for DVC members? For example what do you think the discount will look like for 100 points, vs. 150 points, vs. 175 points, vs. 200 points etc.?

Secondly, we are fairly recent DVC GF point holders (2020 -- GF DVC is our CoVID baby ). Traditionally, can resale DVC members (like us) also take advantage of these incentives? We would like to add on to our current allotment at GF.

Also, based on DVC history,  have the very best DVC direct pricing incentives been provided right when new points for a resort are made available? Can we assume that when the gates open, that will be the best time to buy-in if you are a DVC member vs. ...... six months down the road?

Thanks!


----------



## CarolynFH

zebsterama said:


> Hi everyone, if in fact $207 is the basic per point price for GF out of the gate, what do you think the graduated incentives will look like for DVC members? For example what do you think the discount will look like for 100 points, vs. 150 points, vs. 175 points, vs. 200 points etc.?
> 
> Secondly, we are fairly recent DVC GF point holders (2020 -- GF DVC is our CoVID baby ). Traditionally, can resale DVC members (like us) also take advantage of these incentives? We would like to add on to our current allotment at GF.
> 
> Also, based on DVC history,  have the very best DVC direct pricing incentives been provided right when new points for a resort are made available? Can we assume that when the gates open, that will be the best time to buy-in if you are a DVC member vs. ...... six months down the road?
> 
> Thanks!


I'm totally unqualified to speculate on prices, but I can tell you that once you're a member, you're entitled to member pricing, whether your ownership is direct, resale or a combination of the two.  And historically, the best prices for a new resort have been when it first went on sale.  This being a previously sold out resort means that there's no history to go by.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

zebsterama said:


> Hi everyone, if in fact $207 is the basic per point price for GF out of the gate, what do you think the graduated incentives will look like for DVC members? For example what do you think the discount will look like for 100 points, vs. 150 points, vs. 175 points, vs. 200 points etc.?
> 
> Secondly, we are fairly recent DVC GF point holders (2020 -- GF DVC is our CoVID baby ). Traditionally, can resale DVC members (like us) also take advantage of these incentives? We would like to add on to our current allotment at GF.
> 
> Also, based on DVC history,  have the very best DVC direct pricing incentives been provided right when new points for a resort are made available? Can we assume that when the gates open, that will be the best time to buy-in if you are a DVC member vs. ...... six months down the road?
> 
> Thanks!


Generally speaking the best prices are at launch, although we learned a pandemic closure can create one off exceptional offers.

All members have been treated the same in The past On intro offers.


----------



## RoseGold

zebsterama said:


> Also, based on DVC history, have the very best DVC direct pricing incentives been provided right when new points for a resort are made available? Can we assume that when the gates open, that will be the best time to buy-in if you are a DVC member vs. ...... six months down the road?



I think the answer to this depends on how the pricing opens.  I would expect adjustments quickly, if the price is too low, but not if it is too high.  Setting the price too high and holding there could be an actual strategy, because there is no new construction.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

zebsterama said:


> Hi everyone, if in fact $207 is the basic per point price for GF out of the gate, what do you think the graduated incentives will look like for DVC members? For example what do you think the discount will look like for 100 points, vs. 150 points, vs. 175 points, vs. 200 points etc.?
> 
> Secondly, we are fairly recent DVC GF point holders (2020 -- GF DVC is our CoVID baby ). Traditionally, can resale DVC members (like us) also take advantage of these incentives? We would like to add on to our current allotment at GF.
> 
> Also, based on DVC history,  have the very best DVC direct pricing incentives been provided right when new points for a resort are made available? Can we assume that when the gates open, that will be the best time to buy-in if you are a DVC member vs. ...... six months down the road?
> 
> Thanks!



No clue on the incentives.  Just have to wait.

Once you're a member then you can add on at member incentive rates.   The incentives are generally a bit better than to the general public plus you can add on less than the minimum they'll require for new members although incentives are always less for lower point add on's and increase as you add more.

Years and years ago the initial pricing was not the best but for the past 8 years or so it often has been barring some unforseen disaster where DVC decides they need to pick up the sales a bit.


----------



## Paul Stupin

KAT4DISNEY said:


> No clue on the incentives.  Just have to wait.
> 
> Once you're a member then you can add on at member incentive rates.   The incentives are generally a bit better than to the general public plus you can add on less than the minimum they'll require for new members although incentives are always less for lower point add on's and increase as you add more.
> 
> Years and years ago the initial pricing was not the best but for the past 8 years or so it often has been barring some unforseen disaster where DVC decides they need to pick up the sales a bit.


I wonder if the initial Riviera incentives might provide some kind of indication as to the opening VGF2 incentives for members. Do you remember what they were, or anyone else out there?


----------



## nuhusky123

I think the bwv incentives may be the better model to use for incentives


----------



## Deeleebaker

So if I buy 55 points at VGF direct, I can use those points at RIV?


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

Deeleebaker said:


> So if I buy 55 points at VGF direct, I can use those points at RIV?



Yes you could at 7 months if there is availability.


----------



## Deeleebaker

KAT4DISNEY said:


> Yes you could at 7 months if there is availability.


Thanks. Guess I will see where pricing lands… I was hoping to buy something to get an extra year (December use year) but most of the resale I see is stripped anyway.


----------



## UrsulaWantsYourSoul

Paul Stupin said:


> I wonder if the initial Riviera incentives might provide some kind of indication as to the opening VGF2 incentives for members. Do you remember what they were, or anyone else out there?


----------



## Prince John Robin Hood

UrsulaWantsYourSoul said:


> View attachment 636847



I'll be giving serious consideration to adding on if VGF2 points are offered under $200 after discounts.  I keep reminding myself that DLT is coming too though.


----------



## vacay77

I don’t know much about VGF (and VGF2).  Will you only be able to book studios and not 1 or 2 bedrooms?  There seems to be a lot of interest for VGF2.  Is it the location that makes it special?


----------



## Nabas

vacay77 said:


> I don’t know much about VGF (and VGF2).  Will you only be able to book studios and not 1 or 2 bedrooms?  There seems to be a lot of interest for VGF2.  Is it the location that makes it special?


Disney already released a new point chart for VGF. It shows VGF2 rooms as a new category but on the same chart, meaning those who buy at either VGF1 or VGF2 will be able to book at either.

VGF2 only has Studios, so one of the legitimate concerns of those who already own at VGF1 is that one bedrooms, two bedrooms, and Grand Villas will be harder to book.

Right now, it’s very hard to get a Studio at VGF1 for much of the year, so the situation is going to flip-flop.  Studios will become easier, other rooms will become harder.


----------



## Marionnette

vacay77 said:


> I don’t know much about VGF (and VGF2).  Will you only be able to book studios and not 1 or 2 bedrooms?  There seems to be a lot of interest for VGF2.  Is it the location that makes it special?


If VGF2 is part of the VGF condo association (which is what was broadcast by DVC when VGF2 was announced), then it will be like Jambo/Kidani at AKV and you should be able to book at either building with VGF2 points.

If they change their plans and create a separate condo association (like CCV and BRV at WL) then VGF2 owners would not have home resort benefits at the original VGF.

The interest in VGF2 lies in the fact that it's new, that VGF is a small resort and hard to book if you don't own there.


----------



## DVCsloth

vacay77 said:


> I don’t know much about VGF (and VGF2).  Will you only be able to book studios and not 1 or 2 bedrooms?  There seems to be a lot of interest for VGF2.  Is it the location that makes it special?


VGF2 will be able to book 1, 2 and 3 BR as well as studios in VGF1 building. I think part of the reason there may be so much interest is because it is an awesome resort and location and the studios have been difficult to book at 7 months. Lately almost impossible right at 11 months to the second if not walking for early December. The new building may open up availability at 7- months. But I think people may want to buy to make sure they can get a studio at their specific date. I will most likely not add any more VGF points because I think the 1 BR will be more difficult to book. I would have rather seen a separate association, but I think Disney knows that even though the studio only resort will be popular they also know how awesome VGF1 is and want that to be available option.


----------



## Nabas

Here's the new VGF point chart showing both VGF2 ("Resort Studio") and VGF1 on the same point chart.  My guess is being able to book at both will make VGF2 more appealing to new buyers which, in turn, will help justify a higher VGF2 price.


----------



## vacay77

Thank you everyone for the clarification!  I had no idea.


----------



## Sandisw

vacay77 said:


> Thank you everyone for the clarification!  I had no idea.



And to add, the term VGF2 is not an official term.  It was what its called here!

I want to buy in because I want to own there, but won’t buy resale points due to the restrictions on them. Plus, two studios…if I can not get the 2 bedroom…will work just as well.


----------



## TinkB278

I was kind of confused when I saw the new points chart. I figured at least some of the vgf2 studios would be less than the original studios due to the lack of the kitchenette. Is there something about the new studios that makes up for this and justifies the equal points usage?


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

TinkB278 said:


> I was kind of confused when I saw the new points chart. I figured at least some of the vgf2 studios would be less than the original studios due to the lack of the kitchenette. Is there something about the new studios that makes up for this and justifies the equal points usage?


They’re much larger


----------



## vacay77

Sandisw said:


> And to add, the term VGF2 is not an official term.  It was what its called here!
> 
> I want to buy in because I want to own there, but won’t buy resale points due to the restrictions on them. Plus, two studios…if I can not get the 2 bedroom…will work just as well.



I think you own at Riviera?  If so, how do you compare the 2?  I wasn't even thinking about VGF until I started to hear more about it.


----------



## vacay77

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> They’re much larger



I think I saw a diagram that shows it has 2 bathrooms instead of 1?  This is important to me as the only female among guys, lol.


----------



## TinkB278

vacay77 said:


> I think I saw a diagram that shows it has 2 bathrooms instead of 1?  This is important to me as the only female among guys, lol.


Two full bathrooms??


----------



## vacay77

TinkB278 said:


> Two full bathrooms??



It looks like it has a split bathroom.  Not with 2 separate toilets so I misunderstood.


----------



## nuhusky123

These are hotel room conversions for two queen beds

one bathroom but 440sq feet vs 374sq feet for the deluxe studios


----------



## TinkB278

I’m curious to see the new rooms in person as I still don’t understand the point costa even with the rooms being a bit larger.


----------



## nuhusky123

1- Pine key is closer to gfv proper and mk
2- much bigger rooms
3- two real queen bed

price point makes sense to me. I think this room looks fantastic


----------



## Nabas

TinkB278 said:


> I’m curious to see the new rooms in person as I still don’t understand the point costa even with the rooms being a bit larger.


The price point really depends on what you value the most.

For example, some on these threads are genuinely excited about having 2 queen beds, rather than a foldout sofa.

Some have posted that they never use the kitchenette.  For them, it's wasted space.

Certainly, VGF2 Studios are larger.

We very much prefer the kitchenette.  We'll give VGF2 a try but I have a feeling we will spend most of our stays at VGF1.

Having the old and new Studios solves one serious problem that every DVC member is aware of.  Lower points-per-night rooms tend to book first and be harder to get.  By keeping VGF1 and VGF2 Studios the same number of points, DVC members will book rooms based on their preferences, not on the number of points required.


----------



## Sandisw

vacay77 said:


> I think you own at Riviera?  If so, how do you compare the 2?  I wasn't even thinking about VGF until I started to hear more about it.



I do own at RIV and it remains my top resort with VGF my second.

I think they are both wonderful resorts and the reason we split stay almost every trip. But I do always choose more nights at RIV because we do more Epcot now than MK because trips haven’t included little ones.

The piece I do like about RIV is all one building and the atmosphere. I enjoy sitting at the edge of the water in the morning looking at CBR and getting that island vibe.

Both have wonderful rooms and for VGF, the walkway to MK is great. Both also offer me an great place to walk in the morning that is peaceful.

The charts are comparable with VGF being slightly more so for stays it works!!

IMO, they are both top of the line places to stay and worth the points it costs.  I tend to do 1 bedrooms more often than not and RIV has more of those.

Looking forward to adding VGF to the mix. We do also have SSR points so lots to get the rooms we like.

But, next week I am at RIV all 3 nights… February is one night at VGF and 2 at RIV. March is one night OKW and 2 at RIV..but waitlisted night one at BLT and VGF.


----------



## stwaldman

Nabas said:


> The price point really depends on what you value the most.
> 
> For example, some on these threads are genuinely excited about having 2 queen beds, rather than a foldout sofa.
> 
> Certainly, the square footage in VGF2 is greater.
> 
> Some have posted that they never use the kitchenette.  For them, it's wasted space.
> 
> We very much prefer the kitchenette.  We'll give VGF2 a try but I have a feeling we will spend most of our stays at VGF1.
> 
> Having the old and new Studios solves one serious problem that every DVC member is aware of.  Lower points-per-night rooms tend to book first and be harder to get.  By keeping VGF1 and VGF2 Studios the same number of points, DVC members will book rooms based on their preferences, not on the number of points required.


I kind of like the option of there being both two beds and the fold out, and maybe even quietly wonder if it would be nice to have other resorts split up a few rooms that way. I think there are travelling parties where having the "real" bed makes sense and others where the foldouts and murphys make more sense.


----------



## nuhusky123

stwaldman said:


> I kind of like the option of there being both two beds and the fold out, and maybe even quietly wonder if it would be nice to have other resorts split up a few rooms that way. I think there are travelling parties where having the "real" bed makes sense and others where the foldouts and murphys make more sense.


I would love more resorts to do a hotel conversion With real beds and bigger rooms


----------



## TinkAgainU

Even when traveling alone, I'm happy with two beds if the room size warrants it.  Only time I want a single bed is if that gets me a table and a couple of chairs that would not have fit comfortably otherwise.  I'm always a bit uncomfortable with how clean a couch is to use - sadly, Covid has not made me less germ conscious lol.


----------



## nuhusky123

TinkAgainU said:


> Even when traveling alone, I'm happy with two beds if the room size warrants it.  Only time I want a single bed is if that gets me a table and a couple of chairs that I would not have fit comfortably otherwise.  I'm always a bit uncomfortable with how clean a couch is to use - sadly, Covid has not made me less germ conscious lol.


Sofas a super gross, they never get cleaned and when they do it is at best a vacuum. I as a rule NEVER sit on a hotel sofa at least with beds you know the sheets are changed and I always do a bed bug check of the mattress when I first get into the room


----------



## dvc lover 1970

As much as I don't like the idea of resort studios, I do like the idea of connecting studios. I might consider this option to lower points over a two bedroom on some trips.


----------



## poofyo101

dvc lover 1970 said:


> As much as I don't like the idea of resort studios, I do like the idea of connecting studios. I might consider this option to lower points over a two bedroom on some trips.


does VGF 2 have connecting studios?


----------



## CarolynFH

poofyo101 said:


> does VGF 2 have connecting studios?


We don’t know yet, but being a hotel conversion, it’s likely that it will, like Poly does.


----------



## pirate33

Sandisw said:


> A Plus, two studios…if I can not get the 2 bedroom…will work just as well.



Not for me!  Need the living room, kitchen and w/d.


----------



## TinkAgainU

poofyo101 said:


> does VGF 2 have connecting studios?



I believe we do not know "for sure" yet, but since they indicated they would all be resort/studio (IE not additional bedroom suites) is seems logical they would have at least some that still have connecting doors IF they ever had them to begin with? If they are not doing connecting doors and the space is available, it seems they could have built in the microwave station that so many want in that space?  We are all VERY excited to see the final plans.... and trying to have faith the creative Disney team will make these awesome (both aesthetically and engineering/useful) so the VGF guests are really wow'd, to sell fast to make Disney lots of money 

P.S. That actually begs the question, does anyone remember SEEING connecting doors in any of the rooms in the pre-refurbished Big Pine Key building?


----------



## zebsterama

We currently have a March UY at GF and are seriously looking to add.

If by some miracle GFV2 goes on sale in Feb, and we buy March UY points, would we get 2021 points?

How does that work? - or are we out of luck?

Not a deal breaker, but curious.
Thanks


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

TinkAgainU said:


> P.S. That actually begs the question, does anyone remember SEEING connecting doors in any of the rooms in the pre-refurbished Big Pine Key building?



Here's a picture report from Big Pine Key and it shows a connecting door.   I've seen a couple other people who have stayed there report that there are connecting rooms.  
https://www.wdwmagic.com/resorts/di...ian-resort-guest-room---garden-view/34198.htm


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

zebsterama said:


> We currently have a March UY at GF and are seriously looking to add.
> 
> If by some miracle GFV2 goes on sale in Feb, and we buy March UY points, would we get 2021 points?
> 
> How does that work? - or are we out of luck?
> 
> Not a deal breaker, but curious.
> Thanks



I think it is unlikely that March UY's assigned to the #2 building at VGF would have 2021 points but it's still possible they'd have contracts from the current building that would.  It really is a wait and see though.


----------



## CaptainAmerica

Nabas said:


> Here's the new VGF point chart showing both VGF2 ("Resort Studio") and VGF1 on the same point chart.  My guess is being able to book at both will make VGF2 more appealing to new buyers which, in turn, will help justify a higher VGF2 price.
> 
> View attachment 636943


Was there ever any doubt that all VGF owners would have home resort advantage across both sets of villas? I thought we basically knew that for sure from day one.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

CaptainAmerica said:


> Was there ever any doubt that all VGF owners would have home resort advantage across both sets of villas? I thought we basically knew they for sure from day one.



The original announcement said it would become part of the current association so no, no doubt.


----------



## DVCsloth

KAT4DISNEY said:


> The original announcement said it would become part of the current association so no, no doubt.





CaptainAmerica said:


> Was there ever any doubt that all VGF owners would have home resort advantage across both sets of villas? I thought we basically knew that for sure from day one.


I was kind of hoping it was going to be a separate association. Not real big on Studios Only.


----------



## CaptainAmerica

DVCsloth said:


> I was kind of hoping it was going to be a separate association. Not real big on Studios Only.


It'll be interesting to see how guest demand shakes out. I'll be dying to get into one of these things at 7 months if they're ever available. 2 real beds is MUCH preferred for my family over a queen and a couch. And I find the kitchenettes useless. 

Now we just need to convince Disney to build a King bed studio some place.


----------



## DonMacGregor

CaptainAmerica said:


> It'll be interesting to see how guest demand shakes out. I'll be dying to get into one of these things at 7 months if they're ever available. 2 real beds is MUCH preferred for my family over a queen and a couch. And I find the kitchenettes useless.
> 
> Now we just need to convince Disney to build a King bed studio some place.


We don't even use the kitchens in the 1 and 2 BDR units we stay in, we just like the number of beds and the S P A C E !


----------



## DVCsloth

CaptainAmerica said:


> It'll be interesting to see how guest demand shakes out. I'll be dying to get into one of these things at 7 months if they're ever available. 2 real beds is MUCH preferred for my family over a queen and a couch. And I find the kitchenettes useless.
> 
> Now we just need to convince Disney to build a King bed studio some place.


I'm pretty confident they will be popular. It's an awesome resort.


----------



## CaptainAmerica

nuhusky123 said:


> 150 points we know is the minimum dvc will sell to new buyers


Is that true? I thought you could still buy small contracts, you just wouldn't qualify for membership extras.


----------



## DonMacGregor

CaptainAmerica said:


> Is that true? I thought you could still buy small contracts, you just wouldn't qualify for membership extras.


150 minimum for new members, 25 or 50 for existing, depending on the resort.


----------



## CaptainAmerica

DonMacGregor said:


> We don't even use the kitchens in the 1 and 2 BDR units we stay in, we just like the number of beds and the S P A C E !


Dude I scramble so many eggs. If my parents come with us in a 2BR we go through a dozen a day, easy. 



DVCsloth said:


> I'm pretty confident they will be popular. It's an awesome resort.


Not to mention the fact that Riviera is unavailable to resale buyers so for people who want this type of atmosphere, this will be their only option.


----------



## CaptainAmerica

DonMacGregor said:


> 150 minimum for new members, 25 or 50 for existing, depending on the resort.


I think that's going to be a problem at Disneyland. That's a week's worth of points but nobody goes to Disneyland for whole weeks.


----------



## DonMacGregor

CaptainAmerica said:


> Dude I scramble so many eggs. If my parents come with us in a 2BR we go through a dozen a day, easy.


Our owner's locker has all of the necessary kitchen supplies: a 500 count box of Sugar in the Raw packets, a Brita filter pitcher, and 2 pounds of coffee.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

CaptainAmerica said:


> I think that's going to be a problem at Disneyland. That's a week's worth of points but nobody goes to Disneyland for whole weeks.



Well, we haven't seen point charts yet.  It might be a long weekends worth.  

However people close by will go for more than one trip.  It's not uncommon for us to go for 3-5 days a couple times a year and it is a flight for us from Reno.

And of course one could purchase resale and then add on a smaller amount than 150 at DL.


----------



## CaptainAmerica

DonMacGregor said:


> Our owner's locker has all of the necessary kitchen supplies: a 500 count box of Sugar in the Raw packets, a Brita filter pitcher, and 2 pounds of coffee.


It's the weirdest thing because I'll cook breakfast just about every morning, and I've cooked lunch or dinner a combined zero times, ever.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

KAT4DISNEY said:


> Here's a picture report from Big Pine Key and it shows a connecting door.   I've seen a couple other people who have stayed there report that there are connecting rooms.
> https://www.wdwmagic.com/resorts/di...ian-resort-guest-room---garden-view/34198.htm



Actually, in looking at this picture it appears that DVC is probably following this exact same layout and furniture type.    Really stretching themselves.    And why the build can go so quickly.  Throw some paint on the walls and new floors and voila - DVC to sell!


----------



## DonMacGregor

CaptainAmerica said:


> It's the weirdest thing because I'll cook breakfast just about every morning, and I've cooked lunch or dinner a combined zero times, ever.


We probably WOULD cook breakfast if we cooked anything, but we're usually anxious to get our day started when we're on vacation. That, or we're too lazy...hahaha.


----------



## nuhusky123

I don’t know if this is representative of big pine, it probably is. But according to this blueprint rooms all seem to connect. I’d actually hope some don’t as I dislike having an adjoining door


----------



## Nabas

CaptainAmerica said:


> Was there ever any doubt that all VGF owners would have home resort advantage across both sets of villas? I thought we basically knew that for sure from day one.





KAT4DISNEY said:


> The original announcement said it would become part of the current association so no, no doubt.


Please don't assume that everyone who might join this thread is as up-to-speed as VGF2 as you are.

There was a question earlier today about this.  See:


vacay77 said:


> I don’t know much about VGF (and VGF2).  Will you only be able to book studios and not 1 or 2 bedrooms?  There seems to be a lot of interest for VGF2.  Is it the location that makes it special?


----------



## CaptainAmerica

Nabas said:


> Please don't assume that everyone who might join this thread is as up-to-speed as VGF2 as you are.


Quite the opposite. I haven't kept up on this thread and was confirming my own ignorance on the topic. I wasn't saying "lol we always knew this," I was asking "wait, did I miss something? Because I thought..."


----------



## nuhusky123

The room in red seems unique. Odd shape but it also shares a wall with an elevator. Likely very loud. Last hotel I had that shared a wall with elevator all I heard all night was the elevator going up or down. Drove me bonkers

room in blue would suck as well. I will def be avoiding these two locations


----------



## davidl81

CaptainAmerica said:


> It's the weirdest thing because I'll cook breakfast just about every morning, and I've cooked lunch or dinner a combined zero times, ever.


We are the same way, cook breakfast in the room almost every morning, but never really cook lunch or dinner (short of a frozen pizza for the kids).  Still just having breakfast in the room saves a ton of money over going eat breakfast every morning, plus we generally are not in a rush to get to a park in the morning so its pretty easy for us.


----------



## Nabas

nuhusky123 said:


> The room in red seems unique. Odd shape but it also shares a wall with an elevator. Likely very loud. Last hotel I had that shared a wall with elevator all I heard all night was the elevator going up or down. Drove me bonkers
> 
> room in blue would suck as well. I will def be avoiding these two locations


Touring Plans shows the following floorplan for the 1st floor at Big Pine Key.  I think it shows the room you identified in red as a non-bookable room. My guess is it's some sort of maintenance room.


----------



## nuhusky123

Nabas said:


> Touring Plans shows the following floorplan for the 1st floor at Big Pine Key.  I think it shows the room you identified in red as a non-bookable room. My guess is it's some sort of maintenance room.
> 
> View attachment 637129


Awesome so then just avoid the blue room


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

Nabas said:


> Please don't assume that everyone who might join this thread is as up-to-speed as VGF2 as you are.
> 
> There was a question earlier today about this.  See:



Answering a question is not being disparaging of persons knowledge.


----------



## Sandisw

zebsterama said:


> We currently have a March UY at GF and are seriously looking to add.
> 
> If by some miracle GFV2 goes on sale in Feb, and we buy March UY points, would we get 2021 points?
> 
> How does that work? - or are we out of luck?
> 
> Not a deal breaker, but curious.
> Thanks



It will all depend on how they decide to offer the points.  Points deeded to the new building won’t be usable before the rooms open there.  However, they have points deeded to the current building that can be used as soon as they are bought.

So far, there has been no info on how it might go.  When RIV sold, it went on sale in April with a December opening, and all UYs, but February got 2019 points.

I think there is a good chance we will see all UYs get current UY points when it goes on sale.   My guess is that Feb and March UY will start with 2022 since I am guessing sales don’t open until at least March..just a guess


----------



## nuhusky123

there is a wild card event that will likely impact dvc sales in the coming years. The fed will be increasing interest rates, this will make borrowing money more expensive.

now all of us here know financing isn’t the best for dvc but plenty of people will and do finance

if it costs more money to finance dvc I would be willing to bet this will impact dvc sales

the first round of fed hikes will be coming right around the time gfv is released for sales. I think this will hit dvc sales by a good couple of % points further depressing dvc ambitions


----------



## BWV Dreamin

nuhusky123 said:


> there is a wild card event that will likely impact dvc sales in the coming years. The fed will be increasing interest rates, this will make borrowing money more expensive.
> 
> now all of us here know financing isn’t the best for dvc but plenty of people will and do finance
> 
> if it costs more money to finance dvc I would be willing to bet this will impact dvc sales
> 
> the first round of fed hikes will be coming right around the time gfv is released for sales. I think this will hit dvc sales by a good couple of % points further depressing dvc ambitions


DVC direct make borrowing very easy. Does not impact one’s credit rating. Interest rate is determined by credit score, but even so, will easily lend money. May be a different story going through a bank.


----------



## nuhusky123

BWV Dreamin said:


> DVC direct make borrowing very easy. Does not impact one’s credit rating. Interest rate is determined by credit score, but even so, will easily lend money. May be a different story going through a bank.


Interest rates are set by the federal reserve. Raising the interest rates means for every $1 you borrow the more it costs

i have no idea what you are saying about making it easy or why that is even part of the conversation When I said financing Disney will cost more.

awesome that Disney financing makes it easy to borrow money. So does a bank but that doesn’t change the fact the federal reserve will increase interest rates to combat inflation thereby increasing costs to finance dvc

interest rates are not dictated by ones credit score. Again the federal reserve sets interest rates. Credit score can have a small impact by a percentage of a percent but that’s noise to a bank


----------



## Jimmy Geppetto

nuhusky123 said:


> there is a wild card event that will likely impact dvc sales in the coming years. The fed will be increasing interest rates, this will make borrowing money more expensive.
> 
> now all of us here know financing isn’t the best for dvc but plenty of people will and do finance
> 
> if it costs more money to finance dvc I would be willing to bet this will impact dvc sales
> 
> the first round of fed hikes will be coming right around the time gfv is released for sales. I think this will hit dvc sales by a good couple of % points further depressing dvc ambitions





nuhusky123 said:


> Interest rates are set by the federal reserve. Raising the interest rates means for every $1 you borrow the more it costs
> 
> i have no idea what you are saying about making it easy or why that is even part of the conversation When I said financing Disney will cost more.
> 
> awesome that Disney financing makes it easy to borrow money. So does a bank but that doesn’t change the fact the federal reserve will increase interest rates to combat inflation thereby increasing costs to finance dvc
> 
> interest rates are not dictated by ones credit score. Again the federal reserve sets interest rates. Credit score can have a small impact by a percentage of a percent but that’s noise to a bank



Feds raised the rates nominally in 2018. DVC wasn’t impacted. The last material rate hikes came between June 2004 and June 2006. I don’t have the DVC sales history during those times but I would render a guess they were not materially impacted to the point where prices dropped (or incentives increased).
Inflation is high. Canadian and USA economies are almost at full employment.
I’m no economist but I’d guess there is no impact to DVC sales.

As a potential VGF2 buyer… I hope I’m wrong.


----------



## nuhusky123

I would not expect a change in price but I would expect fewer sales that would typically be financed


----------



## davidl81

The Fed's are talking about raising interest rates to .9% by EOY 2022.  That is not going to materially impact financing rates for DVC.


----------



## nuhusky123

davidl81 said:


> The Fed's are talking about raising interest rates to .9% by EOY 2022.  That is not going to materially impact financing rates for DVC.


I disagree but that’s cool we don’t have to agree. Money has been almost free up to this point.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

nuhusky123 said:


> I disagree but that’s cool we don’t have to agree. Money has been almost free up to this point.



People used to finance at Disney's very high rates without blinking an eye lash.  As I understand they've lowered them but I'd hazard that the Disney rates are still much higher than what could be gotten elsewhere.  They heavily lean on the monthly payment amount vs the rate or even overall cost of the purchase.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

nuhusky123 said:


> Interest rates are set by the federal reserve. Raising the interest rates means for every $1 you borrow the more it costs
> 
> i have no idea what you are saying about making it easy or why that is even part of the conversation When I said financing Disney will cost more.
> 
> awesome that Disney financing makes it easy to borrow money. So does a bank but that doesn’t change the fact the federal reserve will increase interest rates to combat inflation thereby increasing costs to finance dvc
> 
> interest rates are not dictated by ones credit score. Again the federal reserve sets interest rates. Credit score can have a small impact by a percentage of a percent but that’s noise to a bank


The interest rate Disney charges is based on adequate credit score and a great one. If you have ever purchased direct, you would know this. Also Disney’s lending practices are not based on the same criteria as a home equity loan or personal loan. What the Federal Reserve does has no bearing on how Disney lends money. It only affects their interest rate they charge. Not getting into a debate with you. Have you ever purchased direct?


----------



## BWV Dreamin

davidl81 said:


> The Fed's are talking about raising interest rates to .9% by EOY 2022.  That is not going to materially impact financing rates for DVC.


Exactly.


----------



## nuhusky123

BWV Dreamin said:


> The interest rate Disney charges is based on adequate credit score and a great one. If you have ever purchased direct, you would know this. Also Disney’s lending practices are not based on the same criteria as a home equity loan or personal loan. What the Federal Reserve does has no bearing on how Disney lends money. It only affects their interest rate they charge. Not getting into a debate with you. Have you ever purchased direct?


I own direct, I pay cash though. Below is the language dvc was offering on financed contracts. This is a terrible, god awful apr. but I can guarantee if the fed raises rates so will dvc.  As you like to mention over and over Disney won’t leave money on the table so not raising rates to match the fed would mean dvc is making less profit on those poor souls who finance

this is such a horrible rate, makes me cry



INTEREST RATE – For new Members, we offer fixed rates from 9.99% (APR 10.0%) to 18.0% (APR 18.01%) – ex. a 10- year loan with a 10% down payment and a fixed annual rate of 15.0% (APR 15.01%) would require, among other criteria: (1) a 675 min. credit score, (2) current payment status on any primary residence mortgage, (3) no foreclosure history in prior 3 years, (4) no open Federal or State tax liens or judgments, (5) no active bankruptcy filings, (6) no charged-off debt or unpaid judgments greater than $3,000 each or $10,000 total within last 3 years, and (7) no active credit counseling plan. Rate is reduced by .50% if direct debit monthly payments through a U.S. bank account are selected at time of purchase and maintained. You may still qualify even if your situation doesn’t match our assumptions. Your loan’s rate will depend upon the specifics of your loan and payment history. ANNUAL PERCENTAGE RATE (APR): A measure of the cost to borrow money expressed as a yearly percentage. The APR shown assumes a first installment payment within 45 days of closing and includes closing costs and a $250 document preparation fee in the financed amount. Void where prohibited. Additional restrictions and terms may apply.
DVC-22-2300051-W2


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

One of you is saying a change in the federal funds rate will definitely impact the rate Disney charges.

The other is arguing that a change in the federal funds rate will be limited in impact to the the rate Disney charges.

You disagree on whether the amount that buyers will care will be enough to meaningfully impact sales. You do not disagree that a change in the funds rate will change interest charged by Disney.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

Anyone _truly_ financing a DVC purchase is financially cruisin for a bruisin, so I for one don’t think the interest rate will make a meaningful difference unless it goes up by like 750 basis points.


----------



## AvidDisReader

Just for clarity, the Federal Reserve Does NOT raise consumer interest rates. It raises the interest rate on funds that Banks borrower money from the Fed.  Usually they raise rates at a .25% at a time.  There is usually a reciprocal increase in prime rate/consumer rates when the Fed raises rates.  The Worst way to go to finance DVC is thru Disney using consumer rates.  Much better to use a HELOC, much better rates.  Depending on how fast you can expect to payoff the debt, it might actually be better taking a Charge Card advance that offer no interest for 12 to 18 months-but be careful as if you do not payoff in the no interest time period the interest rate becomes oppressive.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

AvidDisReader said:


> Just for clarity, the Federal Reserve Does NOT raise consumer interest rates. It raises the interest rate on funds that Banks borrower money from the Fed.  Usually they raise rates at a .25% at a time.  There is usually a reciprocal increase in prime rate/consumer rates when the Fed raises rates.  The Worst way to go to finance DVC is thru Disney using consumer rates.  Much better to use a HELOC, much better rates.  Depending on how fast you can expect to payoff the debt, it might actually be better taking a Charge Card advance that offer no interest for 12 to 18 months-but be careful as if you do not payoff in the no interest time period the interest rate becomes oppressive.


Great explanation. DVC qualifies for 6 months no interest using Chase Disney Visa when purchasing direct.


----------



## Sandisw

Has anyone looked up how many VGF points have sold on the resale market in the last 6 months or so??


----------



## KTownRaider

Sandisw said:


> Has anyone looked up how many VGF points have sold on the resale market in the last 6 months or so??


For the 3 month period of Sep-Nov, VGF had 17.4K pts sold (16.8 private party  + .6K ROFR)

https://www.dvcnews.com/dvc-program...er-2021-privates-sale-prices-and-volumes-flat


----------



## mamaofsix

CaptainAmerica said:


> It'll be interesting to see how guest demand shakes out. I'll be dying to get into one of these things at 7 months if they're ever available. 2 real beds is MUCH preferred for my family over a queen and a couch. And I find the kitchenettes useless.
> 
> Now we just need to convince Disney to build a King bed studio some place.


Is this as big a deal now that they are refurbing VGF1 with murphy beds that are the exact same size, type and quality queen mattresses as the regular beds?  To me, it's more bang for your buck.  You still get 2 "real" queen beds as well as a couch if you need it...


----------



## Sandisw

KTownRaider said:


> For the 3 month period of Sep-Nov, VGF had 17.4K pts sold (16.8 private party  + .6K ROFR)
> 
> https://www.dvcnews.com/dvc-program...er-2021-privates-sale-prices-and-volumes-flat



So, in 3 months, less than 20k sold with prices under $200….just not seeing how DVD selling at $255 or higher makes sense when they will want to sell a lot more than 20K a month.


----------



## nuhusky123

mamaofsix said:


> Is this as big a deal now that they are refurbing VGF1 with murphy beds that are the exact same size/queen mattresses as the regular beds?  To me, it's more bang for your buck.  You still get 2 "real" queen beds as well as a couch if you need it...


To be determined I guess. I want to try both rooms to see which one I like more. I do like the stand up shower in the deluxe studios but the resort rooms are bigger. Will be fun to try both locations


----------



## nuhusky123

There Are two wild cards for me in terms of buying gfv.
1- price
2- annual passes

even if prices are in the $207 range which I am aligned to buy at if Disney does not bring back annual passes I’m going to pass on buying. I think it’s ridiculous annual passes are gone, no way I’m investing another $30k if I can’t buy an annual pass


----------



## Sandisw

nuhusky123 said:


> There Are two wild cards for me in terms of buying gfv.
> 1- price
> 2- annual passes
> 
> even if prices are in the $207 range which I am aligned to buy at if Disney does not bring back annual passes I’m going to pass on buying. I think it’s ridiculous annual passes are gone, no way I’m investing another $30k if I can’t buy an annual pass



I can’t see them not bringing back when they are letting people renew them. Price though? That could be a lot. 

My newest one will be good until March of 2023, since my current expires in March 2022.


----------



## nuhusky123

I have enough points for 1 week each year. Buying gfv would be week 2 for me. 1 week I’ll buy tickets, if I own 2 weeks I will want an annual pass

disney fails to bring annual passes back in conjunction With selling gfv and that’s $30k I won’t spend at Disney and will simply take vacations else where

my money will walk


----------



## CaptainAmerica

mamaofsix said:


> Is this as big a deal now that they are refurbing VGF1 with murphy beds that are the exact same size, type and quality queen mattresses as the regular beds?  To me, it's more bang for your buck.  You still get 2 "real" queen beds as well as a couch if you need it...


The Resort Studios have a couch as well, and you don't have to choose between the couch OR the second bed.



Regardless, it's not really about the comfort for me, it's about the hassle of opening and closing a piece of furniture.  It prevents me from ever feeling settled in the room.  I dislike split stays for the same reason.


----------



## DVCbie-Jeebies

Sandisw said:


> So, in 3 months, less than 20k sold with prices under $200….just not seeing how DVD selling at $255 or higher makes sense when they will want to sell a lot more than 20K a month.


You can count the hubby and me among those missing from that number who decided after the VGF2 announcement to hold off on buying any resale. Advice all over these boards, including yours, is to hold off on buying, right? Don’t underestimate your ability to dissuade buyers Sandi!


----------



## RoseGold

Sandisw said:


> just not seeing how DVD selling at $255 or higher makes sense when they will want to sell a lot more than 20K a month.



Are they trying to sell 20K a month?  If that's the goal, just continue the Aulani firesale.

There's no construction.  If they sell through VGF, they have nothing new and shiny to sell.  All of those kiosks are staffed up for a reason.

Unless this is DVC's new plan, to keep up low effort, quick conversions of hotel rooms.  I'm sure they can take another CB building or convert a section of the Coronado.


----------



## DonMacGregor

RoseGold said:


> Are they trying to sell 20K a month?  If that's the goal, just continue the Aulani firesale.
> 
> There's no construction.  If they sell through VGF, they have nothing new and shiny to sell.  All of those kiosks are staffed up for a reason.
> 
> Unless this is DVC's new plan, to keep up low effort, quick conversions of hotel rooms.  I'm sure they can take another CB building or convert a section of the Coronado.


Well, there IS that structure emerging from the hole at Disneyland Hotel. Given that current hotel construction costs _*start *_at around $100k per room for a mid-range 3-Star facility, Disney is looking at at least a $35M minimum ROM for the new DVC tower. I'm guessing that would qualify as "new and shiny", and regardless of which coast it's located on, Disney will be looking to sell those points to Eskimos if they have to.


----------



## Sandisw

DVCbie-Jeebies said:


> You can count the hubby and me among those missing from that number who decided after the VGF2 announcement to hold off on buying any resale. Advice all over these boards, including yours, is to hold off on buying, right? Don’t underestimate your ability to dissuade buyers Sandi!



I am glad people waited! I did too! But that only supports that it could be tough to sell so much higher than resale..

If resale market isn’t brisk, then pricing direct really high seems like it will keep it depressed as well.  

I feel more confident it will be $220 or less!


----------



## Sandisw

RoseGold said:


> Are they trying to sell 20K a month?  If that's the goal, just continue the Aulani firesale.
> 
> There's no construction.  If they sell through VGF, they have nothing new and shiny to sell.  All of those kiosks are staffed up for a reason.
> 
> Unless this is DVC's new plan, to keep up low effort, quick conversions of hotel rooms.  I'm sure they can take another CB building or convert a section of the Coronado.



Why do it then if they don’t want to sell it? Wait a few years to convert.

And, if they can’t sell at least 20K VGF points a month it’d be a failure, given RIV just sold 74K in December.

Given the ease to convert, if this is priced well, and sells, they convert something else so they have something new to sell, along with continuing RIV…

Again, we have no idea their thinking, and it will surprise one of the camps for sure.


----------



## Royal Consort

Sandisw said:


> Why do it then if they don’t want to sell it? Wait a few years to convert.
> 
> Given the ease to convert, if this is priced well, and sells, they convert something else so they have something new to sell, along with continuing RIV…



I agree and think we need to take a step back to recognise why Disney are doing this sale. They are recouping during a global pandemic. They cancelled an expensive new build (Reflections) to _quickly and lightly_ spruce up an existing building at a popular resort and plonking it on an existing condo association. This is designed as nothing but a low cost (for the company) sugar hit. They want to turn this over. That's its very reason for being.


----------



## Paul Stupin

Sandisw said:


> So, in 3 months, less than 20k sold with prices under $200….just not seeing how DVD selling at $255 or higher makes sense when they will want to sell a lot more than 20K a month.


Wouldn't make much sense!


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

CaptainAmerica said:


> The Resort Studios have a couch as well, and you don't have to choose between the couch OR the second bed.
> 
> View attachment 639025
> 
> Regardless, it's not really about the comfort for me, it's about the hassle of opening and closing a piece of furniture.  It prevents me from ever feeling settled in the room.  I dislike split stays for the same reason.



It's a couch facing the beds and I think majority want to sit on the couch and watch the TV vs sitting on a bed to watch TV.  That's a big difference between a studio and a hotel room.   I think the murphy bed/sofa combo was a game changer that does make the 2 real bed model obsolete for a lot of people who wanted 2 comfortable beds.  Now studios work much better for a larger variety of people.  

Why they don't give us a King bed studio option is just crazy to me.  Disney is getting more king beds into their deluxe hotel rooms yet DVC can't figure out that would be an offering that is likely to appeal as it would be unlike any other studio option they offer.    Or make it half and half at least?  For what they are doing at VGF it's just a furniture arrangement and wouldn't change anything structural.  Simple.


----------



## Sandisw

KAT4DISNEY said:


> It's a couch facing the beds and I think majority want to sit on the couch and watch the TV vs sitting on a bed to watch TV.  That's a big difference between a studio and a hotel room.   I think the murphy bed/sofa combo was a game changer that does make the 2 real bed model obsolete for a lot of people who wanted 2 comfortable beds.  Now studios work much better for a larger variety of people.
> 
> Why they don't give us a King bed studio option is just crazy to me.  Disney is getting more king beds into their deluxe hotel rooms yet DVC can't figure out that would be an offering that is likely to appeal as it would be unlike any other studio option they offer.    Or make it half and half at least?  For what they are doing at VGF it's just a furniture arrangement and wouldn't change anything structural.  Simple.



These resort studios, because they are larger would have been the perfect room to fit them!!


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

Sandisw said:


> These resort studios, because they are larger would have been the perfect room to fit them!!



That's what I think.  It looks like a King bed and at least a double murphy/sofa, maybe even queen, would easily have gone in along the wall with the 2 queens.  And with a category of 200 rooms even splitting 100/100 would be a couple of good sized booking categories.


----------



## nuhusky123

KAT4DISNEY said:


> That's what I think.  It looks like a King bed and at least a double murphy/sofa, maybe even queen, would easily have gone in along the wall with the 2 queens.


Yes this was a big miss by dvc. they should have had a % of the new rooms, say 100 rooms be kings. Half the building

this would then make getting two studios super popular

2 queens for kids and a king split for parents. Boom winner


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

nuhusky123 said:


> Yes this was a big miss by dvc. they should have had a % of the new rooms, say 100 rooms be kings. Half the building
> 
> this would then make getting two studios super popular
> 
> 2 queens for kids and a king split for parents. Boom winner



That's taking it even a further step than I was thinking.  Ah that would have been great!


----------



## Sandisw

nuhusky123 said:


> Yes this was a big miss by dvc. they should have had a % of the new rooms, say 100 rooms be kings. Half the building
> 
> this would then make getting two studios super popular
> 
> 2 queens for kids and a king split for parents. Boom winner



Yeah, every other room that connected so you could get one side King bed and one side two queens!!

Let’s be honest two queens or a King and a queen bed, if it fit, would be just as nice!!!


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

Sandisw said:


> Yeah, every other room that connected so you could get one side King bed and one side two queens!!
> 
> Let’s be honest two queens or a King and a queen bed, if it fit, would be just as nice!!!



I'd probably give up the microwave for that room arrangement.


----------



## nuhusky123

KAT4DISNEY said:


> I'd probably give up the microwave for that room arrangement.


We have found a reason to give up the microwave, I think I just felt the ground shake


----------



## RoseGold

Remember the NBA had to rip out all the beds from Grand Floridian to bring in king size beds, haha.  Even most of cash Disney doesn't have king size beds. You have to get the Poly honeymoon suite for that.

Guess they just took all of those king size beds over to the Waldorf, where I am sure the NBA wanted to be anyway.


----------



## nuhusky123

RoseGold said:


> Remember the NBA had to rip out all the beds from Grand Floridian to bring in king size beds, haha.  Even most of cash Disney doesn't have king size beds. You have to get the Poly honeymoon suite for that.
> 
> Guess they just took all of those king size beds over to the Waldorf, where I am sure the NBA wanted to be anyway.


According to this those beds were even bigger than a king. The article did say they also installed microwaves 

https://mickeyblog.com/2020/06/27/e...g-brought-to-grand-floridian-for-nba-players/


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

nuhusky123 said:


> We have found a reason to give up the microwave, I think I just felt the ground shake



Not going as far as saying that I wouldn't still think it was a poor decision to not include them in the rooms though.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

RoseGold said:


> Remember the NBA had to rip out all the beds from Grand Floridian to bring in king size beds, haha.  Even most of cash Disney doesn't have king size beds. You have to get the Poly honeymoon suite for that.
> 
> Guess they just took all of those king size beds over to the Waldorf, where I am sure the NBA wanted to be anyway.



It appears that during the recent WL refurb that included removing bunk beds that they added King beds.  I don't know how many rooms they did that for though.


----------



## TinkB278

mamaofsix said:


> Is this as big a deal now that they are refurbing VGF1 with murphy beds that are the exact same size, type and quality queen mattresses as the regular beds?  To me, it's more bang for your buck.  You still get 2 "real" queen beds as well as a couch if you need it...


This is my thought exactly.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

mamaofsix said:


> Is this as big a deal now that they are refurbing VGF1 with murphy beds that are the exact same size, type and quality queen mattresses as the regular beds?  To me, it's more bang for your buck.  You still get 2 "real" queen beds as well as a couch if you need it...


The size is the same but the pull down mattresses are thinner than the other mattresses which probably doesn’t matter to 96% of people but for Pooh-sized individuals they may notice a difference.


----------



## DVCsloth

So far, not a big fan of VGF2. The Villas (VGF1) seem to be well planned out. Couch facing away from the TV is a poor design IMO. It's still the Grand Floridian and I'm sure it will be great for a lot of people but, I really wish they would have at least added some different room types besides all studios. Maybe this will free up studios for some of the almost impossible dates like early December. But then again, it may end up being the same thing after they sell out. Still going to love this resort but we probably won't be adding any more points here.


----------



## CarolynFH

DVCsloth said:


> So far, not a big fan of VGF2. The Villas (VGF1) seem to be well planned out. Couch facing away from the TV is a poor design IMO. It's still the Grand Floridian and I'm sure it will be great for a lot of people but, I really wish they would have at least added some different room types besides all studios. Maybe this will free up studios for some of the almost impossible dates like early December. But then again, it may end up being the same thing after they sell out. Still going to love this resort but we probably won't be adding any more points here.


That little couch is the daybed in the regular Disney deluxe hotel rooms, and so far as I know it doesn’t face the TV because its purpose is to be a sleeping space, not a couch to watch TV on. I guess the people they designed these rooms for are the ones who book hotel rooms and don’t mind sitting or lying on the beds to watch TV.


----------



## nuhusky123

CarolynFH said:


> That little couch is the daybed in the regular Disney deluxe hotel rooms, and so far as I know it doesn’t face the TV because its purpose is to be a sleeping space, not a couch to watch TV on. I guess the people they designed these rooms for are the ones who book hotel rooms and don’t mind sitting or lying on the beds to watch TV.


I watch tv exclusively while in bed when I stay at a hotel, if I even watch tv. I pretty much use my iPad for everything


----------



## DVCsloth

CarolynFH said:


> That little couch is the daybed in the regular Disney deluxe hotel rooms, and so far as I know it doesn’t face the TV because its purpose is to be a sleeping space, not a couch to watch TV on. I guess the people they designed these rooms for are the ones who book hotel rooms and don’t mind sitting or lying on the beds to watch TV.


Looks like we lost the small table and 2 chairs, gained a desk and chair, lost the refrigerator, sink and probably toaster and lost the nice shower. We usually book the 1br so I'm just hoping it doesn't make them difficult to book. We'll probably try out the new studios sometimes I'm sure they are going to be very nice.


----------



## TinkB278

DVCsloth said:


> Looks like we lost the small table and 2 chairs, gained a desk and chair, lost the refrigerator, sink and probably toaster and lost the nice shower. We usually book the 1br so I'm just hoping it doesn't make them difficult to book. We'll probably try out the new studios sometimes I'm sure they are going to be very nice.


Is there a picture of the studio bathroom somewhere?


----------



## DVCsloth

TinkB278 said:


> Is there a picture of the studio bathroom somewhere?


I haven't seen a picture yet; I did look on the DVC website and compared the rooms under where it shows "View Rooms"


----------



## Jwaire

DVCsloth said:


> So far, not a big fan of VGF2. The Villas (VGF1) seem to be well planned out. Couch facing away from the TV is a poor design IMO. It's still the Grand Floridian and I'm sure it will be great for a lot of people but, I really wish they would have at least added some different room types besides all studios. Maybe this will free up studios for some of the almost impossible dates like early December. But then again, it may end up being the same thing after they sell out. Still going to love this resort but we probably won't be adding any more points here.



My biggest concern is the noise. I've read some complaints about Big Pine Key that the walls were paper thin from multiple sources. TP gives it an F for noise! How much work is DVD really going to do on this building or is this just a cheap flip?

I personally love VGF as is. It's small, quaint and feels premium. I'm not an owner, but I've been looking at resale contracts there for about a year. I have other options, but if you are an original owner with most of your points there and like to stay in 1-bedrooms or 2-bedrooms you could have an availability problem for those room types.

The guides don't have any information yet. Mine said he expected it to start selling in Q2. I told him they were advertising booking for this summer (Aug at the latest?), which he didn't seem to know. I would expect it to be announced any minute now? People need time to plan!


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

Jwaire said:


> How much work is DVD really going to do on this building or is this just a cheap flip?


They’re doing 200 rooms in just 3 months. So we don’t know the answer to that, but, also, we know.


----------



## nuhusky123

my money is on sales starting around the price increase for riv. Feb earliest March latest


----------



## Sandisw

nuhusky123 said:


> my money is on sales starting around the price increase for riv. Feb earliest March latest



At the very least, I think we should at least get pricing once RIV and AUL go up!


----------



## gisele2

I thought they would copy the Riviera studio bathrooms.


----------



## nuhusky123

gisele2 said:


> I thought they would copy the Riviera studio bathrooms.


That would require more than A soft goods update and gfv2 is lipstick


----------



## HappyDisneyWife

Jwaire said:


> My biggest concern is the noise. I've read some complaints about Big Pine Key that the walls were paper thin from multiple sources. TP gives it an F for noise! How much work is DVD really going to do on this building or is this just a cheap flip?
> 
> …
> 
> The guides don't have any information yet. Mine said he expected it to start selling in Q2. I told him they were advertising booking for this summer (Aug at the latest?), which he didn't seem to know. I would expect it to be announced any minute now? People need time to plan!


Hmmm… I had not heard anything about noise levels being substantially different btw the 2 bldgs!! That’s surprising for a luxury resort. Ugh. I‘m strongly considering adding a fixed week- and I’d really like to be sure about which building/room type I’d rather be in. Much to my surprise, I’m currently leaning towards the resort studios (storage being a big reason), but that particular concern wasn’t even on my radar until now!!! I’m hoping to learn more when I’m there in a few weeks.

As to the when- I just received a cold call from a DVC rep just a few days ago. He was wanting to be our new guide (I haven’t heard from our original guide in over 4 years). My thought was- if he’s trying to gather up new clients now, the VGF sales must be coming soon! He said he’d email me the details as soon as they release more info. We’ll see, but DVC does seem to be gearing up:

_The 2023 points chart says, *Proposed all new Resort Studios are not yet fully registered or available for sale and are projected to open Summer 2022. The new Resort Studio accommodations will be available for booking in Spring 2022.”  And, the DVC VGF promo page states that “The Resort Studios will soon go on sale and will also be available for booking,”_


----------



## nuhusky123

I went to touring plans to look up info about noise. Everything I read said noise was great at gf. Can you post link and or quote info on pine key Noise?


----------



## Jwaire

nuhusky123 said:


> I went to touring plans to look up info about noise. Everything I read said noise was great at gf. Can you post link and or quote info on pine key Noise?



They gave it an F. I don't know what factors into their rating. I didn't look into that hard.

https://touringplans.com/walt-disney-world/hotels/sound-ratings
I first heard about it from Jen Laforge and she's a very positive Disney blogger.






But she's right, if you look on Trip Advisor (I know. They complain about everything.), people specifically complain about that building. Just search loud or noise.

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_R...idian_Resort_Spa-Orlando_Florida.html#REVIEWS


----------



## nuhusky123

Not saying she is wrong, I have not stayed at pine key but I cannot find much if anything about poor noise sound proofing at pine key


----------



## RoseGold

Jwaire said:


> My biggest concern is the noise. I've read some complaints about Big Pine Key that the walls were paper thin from multiple sources. TP gives it an F for noise! How much work is DVD really going to do on this building or is this just a cheap flip?



IMO, all the Disney hotels are loud because they are full of kids.  Reviewers who are frequent travelers (or people staying in $800/night rooms at GF and want $800/night quality) are used to nice, quiet business hotels.  All DVC will fail in that respect.

I can't think of a DVC hotel I wouldn't consider loud.  TP gives Bs to BC and BW, and I have definitely been woken by screaming babies at both with a white noise machine.  I stayed at Swan once and thought it was very quiet, but it wasn't very crowded, and I might have just lucked out being next to adults.  And yea, if you paid $800/night for Grand Floridian and you get woken up by a screaming baby, it leaves a bad taste in your mouth.

Edit to add:  Interesting that Youtube video thinks the noise level at Poly is acceptable.  I'd consider it the worst in the system.  I've been able to eavesdrop on loud conversations next door.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

DVCsloth said:


> Looks like we lost the small table and 2 chairs, gained a desk and chair, lost the refrigerator, sink and probably toaster and lost the nice shower. We usually book the 1br so I'm just hoping it doesn't make them difficult to book. We'll probably try out the new studios sometimes I'm sure they are going to be very nice.


Not having the split bath in VGF2 is also a deal breaker for me.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

RoseGold said:


> IMO, all the Disney hotels are loud because they are full of kids.  Reviewers who are frequent travelers (or people staying in $800/night rooms at GF and want $800/night quality) are used to nice, quiet business hotels.  All DVC will fail in that respect.
> 
> I can't think of a DVC hotel I wouldn't consider loud.  TP gives Bs to BC and BW, and I have definitely been woken by screaming babies at both with a white noise machine.  I stayed at Swan once and thought it was very quiet, but it wasn't very crowded, and I might have just lucked out being next to adults.  And yea, if you paid $800/night for Grand Floridian and you get woken up by a screaming baby, it leaves a bad taste in your mouth.


Didn’t hear a peep of noise in our Bay Lake Tower one bedroom.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

Jwaire said:


> They gave it an F. I don't know what factors into their rating. I didn't look into that hard.
> 
> https://touringplans.com/walt-disney-world/hotels/sound-ratings
> I first heard about it from Jen Laforge and she's a very positive Disney blogger.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But she's right, if you look on Trip Advisor (I know. They complain about everything.), people specifically complain about that building. Just search loud or noise.
> 
> https://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_R...idian_Resort_Spa-Orlando_Florida.html#REVIEWS


Why does this person’s opinion matter that much? Sound, decor, etc. are all subjective.


----------



## RoseGold

BWV Dreamin said:


> Didn’t hear a peep of noise in our Bay Lake Tower one bedroom.



Interesting, TP gives BLT an A and Poly an F (I agree with that!).  TP also gives the treehouses at SSR and A, but I am never hiking out there!  Weird that vlogger didn't seem to care about the noise level at Poly.  I guess because it's a slightly cheaper hotel?


----------



## CaptainAmerica

RoseGold said:


> Interesting, TP gives BLT an A and Poly an F (I agree with that!).  TP also gives the treehouses at SSR and A, but I am never hiking out there!  Weird that vlogger didn't seem to care about the noise level at Poly.


BLT seems to be an exception, but as a general rule, resorts with inside-access hallways are noisier than outside-access hallways because the outside-access hallways have to have weatherproofing around the doors and insulation in that wall.


----------



## Her Dotness

Huh. I wonder if noise might be an issue in the lodges at the GF. I'll be interested to hear from anyone who's stayed in Big Pine Key.

Before buying into DVC, we stayed several times in the main building and never were troubled by noise. In fact, during our first stay right after New Year's, I awoke once in the night to some muted thumps and was charmed to realize the "elves" were removing the lobby Christmas decorations. When we left our room in the morning, all those elaborate decorations were gone--magic! 

All but one of our rooms there overlooked the lobby. We could sometimes hear noise when the orchestra played, but that was it.

DH is a very light sleeper and never complained of noise in the night for any but the one room not near the lobby. That was hallway conversation by some guests who were obviously "liquidly enhanced."

The lodges might be another experience since all rooms/suites in the main are club level.


----------



## nuhusky123

RoseGold said:


> IMO, all the Disney hotels are loud because they are full of kids.  Reviewers who are frequent travelers (or people staying in $800/night rooms at GF and want $800/night quality) are used to nice, quiet business hotels.  All DVC will fail in that respect.
> 
> I can't think of a DVC hotel I wouldn't consider loud.  TP gives Bs to BC and BW, and I have definitely been woken by screaming babies at both with a white noise machine.  I stayed at Swan once and thought it was very quiet, but it wasn't very crowded, and I might have just lucked out being next to adults.  And yea, if you paid $800/night for Grand Floridian and you get woken up by a screaming baby, it leaves a bad taste in your mouth.
> 
> Edit to add:  Interesting that Youtube video thinks the noise level at Poly is acceptable.  I'd consider it the worst in the system.  I've been able to eavesdrop on loud conversations next door.


The swan reserve was church mouse quiet but the swan is anything but quiet. the hall echoes sound and it’s full of kids.

it’s Disney, it’s loud. although I would not be happy with hearing people through the walls.

universal royal pacific has paper thin walls with the guests doing rather loud adult things. Fun explaining that to kids


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

BWV Dreamin said:


> Why does this person’s opinion matter that much? Sound, decor, etc. are all subjective.



And the neighbors matter a lot.  Some people have voice tones that just carry even when speaking normally.  AKV concierge room we had neighbors move in a couple days after our arrival and we "enjoyed" every conversation they had.  Before that I couldn't have said if anyone was in that room except for that they came out on their balcony once when I was out on ours.   It was definitely the connecting door that allowed the sound to pass thru which Big Pine Key also has.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

BWV Dreamin said:


> Why does this person’s opinion matter that much? Sound, decor, etc. are all subjective.


I would be shocked if TPs sound rating is subjective. They’re definitely the kind of people who would bring a fancy sound level meter into 15 different rooms to check.


----------



## Paul Stupin

I’m wondering if DVC would ever incentivize buyers to purchase a package of points that includes contracts at both Riviera and VGF2? That way they could take advantage of the initial excitement that will surround VGF2 sales and spread a little of it over to Riviera.


----------



## stwaldman

Paul Stupin said:


> I’m wondering if DVC would ever incentivize buyers to purchase a package of points that includes contracts at both Riviera and VGF2? That way they could take advantage of the initial excitement that will surround VGF2 sales and spread a little of it over to Riviera.


I feel like it's less likely because you'd have to double the closing costs and paperwork which seems like a big headache to explain to new buyers (maybe add on for current members would be more understanding and interested).


----------



## nuhusky123

stwaldman said:


> I feel like it's less likely because you'd have to double the closing costs and paperwork which seems like a big headache to explain to new buyers (maybe add on for current members would be more understanding and interested).


this could be a big detractor were such an incentive created

lets say I can afford 100 gfv points and that costs me $20,000

unless they give me 100 gfv points plus x riv points and it still costs me $20,000 I would hard pass on anything that ends up costing me more to buy my 100 gfv points


----------



## stwaldman

nuhusky123 said:


> this could be a big detractor were such an incentive created
> 
> lets say I can afford 100 gfv points and that costs me $20,000
> 
> unless they give me 100 gfv points plus x riv points and it still costs me $20,000 I would hard pass on anything that ends up costing me more to buy my 100 gfv points


The hypothetical was phrased as an "incentive", so yes I was assuming there would actually be a discount in this whole thought experiment


----------



## Jwaire

Paul Stupin said:


> I’m wondering if DVC would ever incentivize buyers to purchase a package of points that includes contracts at both Riviera and VGF2? That way they could take advantage of the initial excitement that will surround VGF2 sales and spread a little of it over to Riviera.



I just don't know if they care about selling out Rivera. Rivera is popular and they are making money on the cash side because they haven't even declared all the rooms yet. $657 per night in September for a preferred studio. You could buy a small add-on for the cost of one visit.


----------



## Sandisw

stwaldman said:


> I feel like it's less likely because you'd have to double the closing costs and paperwork which seems like a big headache to explain to new buyers (maybe add on for current members would be more understanding and interested).



DVD could cover the extra closing costs..that’s not an issue.

But, they want people to have 150 minimum in one contract so I don’t think they would change that aspect.


----------



## Nabas

Jwaire said:


> My biggest concern is the noise. *I've read some complaints about Big Pine Key that the walls were paper thin from multiple sources. TP gives it an F for noise!*


Oh no!


----------



## Jwaire

If anyone is interested in the building of Grand Floridan, you should check out https://podcast.progresscityusa.com/e/the-progress-city-radio-hour-episode-18-town-hall-bob-holland/ around 31 minutes in Holland talks about building GF, why the balcony's have tile, fight over its budget, etc.


----------



## Lorana

Paul Stupin said:


> I’m wondering if DVC would ever incentivize buyers to purchase a package of points that includes contracts at both Riviera and VGF2? That way they could take advantage of the initial excitement that will surround VGF2 sales and spread a little of it over to Riviera.


In 2020, they did allow you to purchase points at both RIV and CCV that would "stack" incentives, because the incentives being offered were exactly the same (in terms of $$ off).  This is in fact partly why we did buy RIV -- we were _already_ purchasing CCV for 2 fixed weeks, and 64 RIV points got us the next level of incentives.  In the end, our effective cost per point for RIV was $148.34 when you factored in the lower point cost for CCV as a result of hitting the incentives ($150pp actual point cost), so it was a no-brainer for us to add on a small incentive.

Which is a long way of saying, if the incentives match *exactly* I would check to see if they will allow you to stack them!


----------



## Paul Stupin

Lorana said:


> In 2020, they did allow you to purchase points at both RIV and CCV that would "stack" incentives, because the incentives being offered were exactly the same (in terms of $$ off).  This is in fact partly why we did buy RIV -- we were _already_ purchasing CCV for 2 fixed weeks, and 64 RIV points got us the next level of incentives.  In the end, our effective cost per point for RIV was $148.34 when you factored in the lower point cost for CCV as a result of hitting the incentives ($155pp actual point cost), so it was a no-brainer for us to add on a small incentive.
> 
> Which is a long way of saying, if the incentives match *exactly* I would check to see if they will allow you to stack them!


Interesting! How many points did you buy? I’m curious because I’ll probably wind up buying enough VGF2 points to take advantage of a high discount.


----------



## Lorana

Paul Stupin said:


> Interesting! How many points did you buy? I’m curious because I’ll probably wind up buying enough VGF2 points to take advantage of a high discount.


I initially started with 2 FWs (118 points each, or 236 points) and did 2 50 point RIV contracts, but then called next day to change to 65 points each.  We have 2 sons, hence splitting the contracts, and we just felt 130 would go further than 120.  But then - about 60 days after we bought the contracts - DH learned about runDisney FWs and wanted the Wine & Dine week.  I asked my Guide about it an kind of sighed that we wouldn't get the high point discount, but our guide said because we hadn't actually closed (we were paying over 90 days), we'd still qualify.  So we did the F&W runDisney week at CCV (another 118 pts) and as that now put us at 484pts, we added on another 50pts (alas, our guide would not let us split it into 2 25-pts), to get us that additional discount at 500 points.  And now that I'm typing it out, it all seems so crazy!  But those Summer 2020 incentives WERE SO GOOD we were able to buy a lot more points than we originally intended.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

Lorana said:


> I initially started with 2 FWs (118 points each, or 236 points) and did 2 50 point RIV contracts, but then called next day to change to 65 points each.  We have 2 sons, hence splitting the contracts, and we just felt 130 would go further than 120.  But then - about 60 days after we bought the contracts - DH learned about runDisney FWs and wanted the Wine & Dine week.  I asked my Guide about it an kind of sighed that we wouldn't get the high point discount, but our guide said because we hadn't actually closed (we were paying over 90 days), we'd still qualify.  So we did the F&W runDisney week at CCV (another 118 pts) and as that now put us at 484pts, we added on another 50pts (alas, our guide would not let us split it into 2 25-pts), to get us that additional discount at 500 points.  And now that I'm typing it out, it all seems so crazy!  But those Summer 2020 incentives WERE SO GOOD we were able to buy a lot more points than we originally intended.


So envious of your fixed weeks. We only have one but definitely Disney’s best kept secret! Congrats! With the low points chart at CCV that was an phenomenal purchase!


----------



## Lorana

BWV Dreamin said:


> So envious of your fixed weeks. We only have one but definitely Disney’s best kept secret! Congrats! With the low points chart at CCV that was an phenomenal purchase!


It was!  As of 2023 point charts, our runDisney and Thanksgiving weeks are now LESS than the weekly cost of those weeks, and our Week 48 (week after Thanksgiving mist years) is the same cost.

So our per point cost was $175pp for CCV and $150pp (I made a mistake above now that I went back and looked) for RIV. I’m pretty happy with those point costs, as non-incentive costs then we’re $220 and $195, respectively, so I got $45 off per point.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

Paul Stupin said:


> I’m wondering if DVC would ever incentivize buyers to purchase a package of points that includes contracts at both Riviera and VGF2? That way they could take advantage of the initial excitement that will surround VGF2 sales and spread a little of it over to Riviera.



Back in the old days I purchased points at different resorts and the entire total was used towards incentive calculation so in a way it has been done.  Per Lorana it seems they still have done that recently.  But it's not something they marketed and I do not believe they would.  If they felt sales lagging at Riviera they'd stop mentioning VGF as much and vice versa.  Or just have a little higher incentive there vs trying to sell a package of 2 resorts to guests who don't even know a thing about DVC.


----------



## nuhusky123

question about pine key dormer Rooms vs lower floor rooms

i don’t care about a balcony and I like how dormer rooms feel more spacious due to ceiling height.

any other pros or cons to a dormer room vs regular room?


----------



## Paul Stupin

KAT4DISNEY said:


> Back in the old days I purchased points at different resorts and the entire total was used towards incentive calculation so in a way it has been done.  Per Lorana it seems they still have done that recently.  But it's not something they marketed and I do not believe they would.  If they felt sales lagging at Riviera they'd stop mentioning VGF as much and vice versa.  Or just have a little higher incentive there vs trying to sell a package of 2 resorts to guests who don't even know a thing about DVC.


Makes total sense. I’m just going to keep my fingers crossed for some solid incentives on VGF2!


----------



## nuhusky123

Paul Stupin said:


> Makes total sense. I’m just going to keep my fingers crossed for some solid incentives on VGF2!


Incentives, a good base price and a return of annual pass sales


----------



## Paul Stupin

nuhusky123 said:


> Incentives, a good base price and a return of annual pass sales


Agreed! I was lucky with annual passes for my wife and I. Being relatively new to DVC, I bought our first two sorcerer passes in October so I could make park reservations for a trip this September. They won’t get activated until we actually use them, so I won’t have to renew them until September of 2023!


----------



## DisneyMom_3

KAT4DISNEY said:


> It's a couch facing the beds and I think majority want to sit on the couch and watch the TV vs sitting on a bed to watch TV.  That's a big difference between a studio and a hotel room.   I think the murphy bed/sofa combo was a game changer that does make the 2 real bed model obsolete for a lot of people who wanted 2 comfortable beds.  Now studios work much better for a larger variety of people.
> 
> Why they don't give us a King bed studio option is just crazy to me.  Disney is getting more king beds into their deluxe hotel rooms yet DVC can't figure out that would be an offering that is likely to appeal as it would be unlike any other studio option they offer.    Or make it half and half at least?  For what they are doing at VGF it's just a furniture arrangement and wouldn't change anything structural.  Simple.


I thought the exact same thing! Why can’t they have a King bed, a Murphy queen sofa bed, and the little pull down bed? Those pull down beds are out of the way for those that don’t need them and the larger room would accommodate it.  But, maybe they want you to have to spend the points for a 1 BR or higher for a King bed.


----------



## DisneyMom_3

nuhusky123 said:


> Yes this was a big miss by dvc. they should have had a % of the new rooms, say 100 rooms be kings. Half the building
> 
> this would then make getting two studios super popular
> 
> 2 queens for kids and a king split for parents. Boom winner


This is even better than I was thinking! This is definitely the best idea I’ve heard!
They need you to help with planning!!


----------



## DisneyMom_3

Anyone know about how long before a resort goes on sale that they typically announce the price and incentives?


----------



## awatt

Haven't been able to get through all 39 pages so I apologize for asking what May already have been answered. I keep seeing $207 as a price point? Why would that be when current direct price is $255?


----------



## stwaldman

awatt said:


> Haven't been able to get through all 39 pages so I apologize for asking what May already have been answered. I keep seeing $207 as a price point? Why would that be when current direct price is $255?


255 is a sold out resort price point (not currently being marketed) based on limited inventory and the need to ROFR a contract to meet demand. 

207 is the soon to be direct sales price point and also is alluded to in the fine print of the new VGF commercial.


----------



## stwaldman

stwaldman said:


> 255 is a sold out resort price point (not currently being marketed) based on limited inventory and the need to ROFR a contract to meet demand.
> 
> 207 is the soon to be direct sales price point and also is alluded to in the fine print of the new VGF commercial.


Doesn't mean it's right, but that's why the underlying assumptions by many


----------



## awatt

stwaldman said:


> Doesn't mean it's right, but that's why the underlying assumptions by many


Thanks so much that's very helpful! At that price I will add on


----------



## CaptainAmerica

DisneyMom_3 said:


> Anyone know about how long before a resort goes on sale that they typically announce the price and incentives?


We're sort of in uncharted territory here though.  We are not "...before a resort goes on sale..." because VGF is _already _on sale and VGF2 isn't a separate thing.  This isn't a Copper Creek / Boulder Ridge situation.


----------



## Paul Stupin

CaptainAmerica said:


> We're sort of in uncharted territory here though.  We are not "...before a resort goes on sale..." because VGF is _already _on sale and VGF2 isn't a separate thing.  This isn't a Copper Creek / Boulder Ridge situation.


But is VGF currently on sale? I thought they had halted direct sales months ago.


----------



## CaptainAmerica

Paul Stupin said:


> But is VGF currently on sale? I thought they had halted direct sales months ago.


Everything is on sale if you're insistent enough.  Current direct price is $255/pt.


----------



## stwaldman

CaptainAmerica said:


> Everything is on sale if you're insistent enough.  Current direct price is $255/pt.


that said, it hasnt had direct points recorded since summer...

https://dvcnews.com/dvc-program/fin...8-direct-sales-rebound-a-bit-in-december-2021


----------



## CaptainAmerica

stwaldman said:


> that said, it hasnt had direct points recorded since summer...
> 
> https://dvcnews.com/dvc-program/fin...8-direct-sales-rebound-a-bit-in-december-2021


Is the theory that Disney is forbidding their guides from selling VGF, even if a buyer is adamant?

Non-savvy buyers don't know that there's anything available besides Riviera and Aulani.  Savvy buyers know that "VGF2" is coming, and likely with incentives.


----------



## nuhusky123

CaptainAmerica said:


> Is the theory that Disney is forbidding their guides from selling VGF, even if a buyer is adamant?
> 
> Non-savvy buyers don't know that there's anything available besides Riviera and Aulani.  Savvy buyers know that "VGF2" is coming, and likely with incentives.


You cannot buy gfv, even if you yell at the guides dvc will not sell you points


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

nuhusky123 said:


> You cannot buy gfv, even if you yell at the guides dvc will not sell you points


They won’t sell you VGC either, and that’s been the case for most of the last several years.


----------



## RoseGold

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> They won’t sell you VGC either, and that’s been the case for most of the last several years.



They sell some from time to time.  They're still foreclosing.


----------



## davidl81

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> They won’t sell you VGC either, and that’s been the case for most of the last several years.


They won’t sell VGC because they just don’t have the points to sell.  They are not selling VGF likely for one of two reasons.  1). They want more points in inventory for on sale date.  Specifically use years that are early in the year (before VGF opens) that would not be available to sell till 2023 if it was a new build resort for add on buyers.  2).  They are planning on selling lower than $255 and they don’t want people buying at $255 and within 1-2 months those same buyers being upset that new prices are significantly lower.  You could argue that people who bought 6-8 months ago may be upset, but I think there is a pretty big difference between 8 months ago and 1 month ago.


----------



## smmora

I asked a guide last week, he said that weren't selling VGF until the upcoming release


----------



## Sandisw

CaptainAmerica said:


> Everything is on sale if you're insistent enough.  Current direct price is $255/pt.



Since they stopped sales, have not read of any that were allowed, and most reports are they were told no.

Sales at RIV said they have been suspended until the new release.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

RoseGold said:


> They sell some from time to time.  They're still foreclosing.


Yes but they closed the wait list almost 2 years ago and AFAIK they haven’t reopened it.


----------



## Jimmy Geppetto

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> Yes but they closed the wait list almost 2 years ago and AFAIK they haven’t reopened it.



I bought some direct points back in August and asked if I could buy some VGF, and it was a hard No.


----------



## DisneyMom_3

davidl81 said:


> They won’t sell VGC because they just don’t have the points to sell.  They are not selling VGF likely for one of two reasons.  1). They want more points in inventory for on sale date.  Specifically use years that are early in the year (before VGF opens) that would not be available to sell till 2023 if it was a new build resort for add on buyers.  2).  They are planning on selling lower than $255 and they don’t want people buying at $255 and within 1-2 months those same buyers being upset that new prices are significantly lower.  You could argue that people who bought 6-8 months ago may be upset, but I think there is a pretty big difference between 8 months ago and 1 month ago.


I’m hoping it’s reason #2!


----------



## Royal Consort

CaptainAmerica said:


> Everything is on sale if you're insistent enough.  Current direct price is $255/pt.



Wish that philosophy worked with annual passes.


----------



## MICKIMINI

nuhusky123 said:


> You cannot buy gfv, even if you yell at the guides dvc will not sell you points


Yes, you can.  It is waitlist only.  My guide is an old timer as am I LOL!


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

MICKIMINI said:


> Yes, you can.  It is waitlist only.  My guide is an old timer as am I LOL!



I interpret what you said that you can get on a waitlist.  They did not sell you points though.


----------



## MICKIMINI

KAT4DISNEY said:


> I interpret what you said that you can get on a waitlist.  They did not sell you points though.


Correct.  I was talking to my guide about buying a different resort and I mentioned perhaps waiting for VGF2.  He offered to put me on a waitlist for VGF with my UY.  That was in November I believe.  Like everyone here, I'm waiting for the intro price on VGF2!


----------



## BWV Dreamin

RoseGold said:


> They sell some from time to time.  They're still foreclosing.


Yes. Bought some last April, but that was before the announcement.


----------



## RoseGold

BWV Dreamin said:


> Yes. Bought some last April, but that was before the announcement.



That response was about VGC.  They still sell VGC here and there when they foreclose.

Since summer, they have foreclosed and even ROFRed VGF, but haven’t been selling.


----------



## Jelly563

Now that Boardwalk is $230 pp direct, I HIGHLY doubt that VGF will be offered for the ridiculous price people here have stated ($207 - $210). Imagine that pitch...... BWV is $230 with only 20 yrs left but you can have VGF for the low low bargain price of $207 (with incentives) and it goes till 2062...... YEA RIGHT


----------



## Ssplashhmtn

Jelly563 said:


> Now that Boardwalk is $230 pp direct, I HIGHLY doubt that VGF will be offered for the ridiculous price people here have stated ($207 - $210). Imagine that pitch...... BWV is $230 with only 20 yrs left but you can have VGF for the low low bargain price of $207 (with incentives) and it goes till 2062...... YEA RIGHT



That is the pitch for shiny new RIV today, so it’s not completely crazy to think it could be said.


----------



## BrianLo

Jelly563 said:


> Now that Boardwalk is $230 pp direct, I HIGHLY doubt that VGF will be offered for the ridiculous price people here have stated ($207 - $210). Imagine that pitch...... BWV is $230 with only 20 yrs left but you can have VGF for the low low bargain price of $207 (with incentives) and it goes till 2062...... YEA RIGHT



They aren’t trying to pitch BWV.

Disney is buying BWV for up to 140$ based on ROFR and eating closing costs. They are then reselling them direct for 230$. It’s a spread of 90$ a point at the best of times.

207 is only absurd if it costs Disney >100$ Per point for VGF, which it most assuredly does not. They make far more money selling you their new DVC than an old one and even better, they have convinced everyone it’s ‘too good to be true’.


----------



## DVCsloth

Jelly563 said:


> Now that Boardwalk is $230 pp direct, I HIGHLY doubt that VGF will be offered for the ridiculous price people here have stated ($207 - $210). Imagine that pitch...... BWV is $230 with only 20 yrs left but you can have VGF for the low low bargain price of $207 (with incentives) and it goes till 2062...... YEA RIGHT


Not quite following, do you think it will be priced lower than Riviera?


----------



## Nabas

Jelly563 said:


> Now that Boardwalk is $230 pp direct, I HIGHLY doubt that VGF will be offered for the ridiculous price people here have stated ($207 - $210). Imagine that pitch...... BWV is $230 with only 20 yrs left but you can have VGF for the low low bargain price of $207 (with incentives) and it goes till 2062...... YEA RIGHT


You’re missing the point, already made on this thread, that a sold-out resort like BWV typically sells only around 2000 points per month.  People who buy at BWV buy there for very specific reasons.  Many (most?) already own there and are simply looking to add to their existing contracts.

For VGF2 to be successful, Disney will have to sell at least 80,000 points per month, 40 times that number.

There’s a reason the brand new RIV is being sold for $207 per month.  Even at that price (and with discounts for larger contracts), RIV sales are weak.  This most likely is due to reduced attendance caused by COVID.

COVID will still be with us when VGF2 is released for sale.  The reality is that Disney cannot be overly aggressive with VGF2 pricing until theme park attendance returns to normal, which doesn’t happen until everyone feels safe traveling to WDW.

Then there’s inflation, which is far outpacing income.  As a result, people have less disposable income to spend on nonessentials like DVC.

Taking into account multiple factors, $207 is not a ridiculous price at all.

Months ago, I predicted $210 to $225. Increasingly, it’s looking like my prediction is too high.


----------



## Sandisw

Jelly563 said:


> Now that Boardwalk is $230 pp direct, I HIGHLY doubt that VGF will be offered for the ridiculous price people here have stated ($207 - $210). Imagine that pitch...... BWV is $230 with only 20 yrs left but you can have VGF for the low low bargain price of $207 (with incentives) and it goes till 2062...... YEA RIGHT



They don’t price sold out resorts to sell. They price them so only a die hard for that resort will want them because they don’t keep 2 million points in stock..which is what VGF will have.  

VGF is not competing against those resorts. It will be for sale along with RIV.  So those are the two that will be discussed, not BWV or BCV. Most new buyers won’t ever know those can be bought. 

Guides want to sell and having the two main resorts close in prices allows them to do that by promoting pros of both!!

We shall see…hopefully soon. I think if it comes out near sold out prices, it will struggle to sell.

And I can’t think of a reason why they stopped sales at $255 if they plan to price close to that. They could have continued current sales and just kept ROFR up there to fill it.


----------



## DVCsloth

I'm leaning towards VGF2 being the same as Riviera $207 and they will probably add some decent incentives for larger purchases.


----------



## SleeplessInTO

I hope it does come in at $207 with some incentives to bring it down. It’ll be in active sales vs Aulani and Riviera so that doesn’t seem too unreasonable to me. 
No idea why but this is the only resort I’m tempted to buy direct via Disney. And I’ve never even stayed at Grand Floridian! Their constant efforts to make me feel like a 4th class citizen with no ability to borrow points online must be working


----------



## DVCsloth

SleeplessInTO said:


> I hope it does come in at $207 with some incentives to bring it down. It’ll be in active sales vs Aulani and Riviera so that doesn’t seem too unreasonable to me.
> No idea why but this is the only resort I’m tempted to buy direct via Disney. And I’ve never even stayed at Grand Floridian! Their constant efforts to make me feel like a 4th class citizen with no ability to borrow points online must be working


I think this will be a good time to consider a direct purchase. VGF is just a great all-around resort. Makes sense to price it the same as Riviera and offer some decent incentives to give it a good kick start. There will probably be some pretty good resale contracts available as well, but this is a good opportunity to purchase non restricted points.


----------



## Nabas

SleeplessInTO said:


> I hope it does come in at $207 with some incentives to bring it down. It’ll be in active sales vs Aulani and Riviera so that doesn’t seem too unreasonable to me.
> No idea why but this is the only resort I’m tempted to buy direct via Disney. And I’ve never even stayed at Grand Floridian! Their constant efforts to make me feel like a 4th class citizen with no ability to borrow points online must be working


We bought at VGF1 recently exactly because we decided we wanted to be able to stay there once a year, and there was no way to assure this without owning there, especially for the months that require fewer points.

We typically only spend 3 or 4 hours per day at the theme parks, so having a resort we can relax at is very important to us. We enjoy the VGF pools and think they have a decent food court.  We also like waking up there and having coffee on the balcony.


----------



## Jimmy Geppetto

Sandisw said:


> They don’t price sold out resorts to sell. They price them so only a die hard for that resort will want them because they don’t keep 2 million points in stock..which is what VGF will have.
> 
> VGF is not competing against those resorts. It will be for sale along with RIV.  So those are the two that will be discussed, not BWV or BCV. Most new buyers won’t ever know those can be bought.
> 
> Guides want to sell and having the two main resorts close in prices allows them to do that by promoting pros of both!!
> 
> We shall see…hopefully soon. I think if it comes out near sold out prices, it will struggle to sell.
> 
> And I can’t think of a reason why they stopped sales at $255 if they plan to price close to that. They could have continued current sales and just kept ROFR up there to fill it.



Agree 100%!

And the guides will also be saying “this resort was selling at $255pp last year and had a wait list!”  

And many who don’t understand the economics or don’t think supply matters will feel the new price is a great deal.

Hurry up Disney and take my money!!  Give us some news!


----------



## Sandisw

Jimmy Geppetto said:


> Agree 100%!
> 
> And the guides will also be saying “this resort was selling at $255pp last year and had a wait list!”
> 
> And many who don’t understand the economics or don’t think supply matters will feel the new price is a great deal.
> 
> Hurry up Disney and take my money!!  Give us some news!



I didn’t think of that aspect..that it can promote the reduced price…and I do think if this goes well, we will see more of this at other places..until they can build new.


----------



## Einstein509

Jelly563 said:


> Now that Boardwalk is $230 pp direct, I HIGHLY doubt that VGF will be offered for the ridiculous price people here have stated ($207 - $210). Imagine that pitch...... BWV is $230 with only 20 yrs left but you can have VGF for the low low bargain price of $207 (with incentives) and it goes till 2062...... YEA RIGHT


I know I'm in the minority here, but I agree with Jelly.  This is Disney's flagship resort, top of the line.  You can't compare it with Riviera.  Riviera doesn't even come close.  We're talking location (walk to MK, monorail), grandeur, dining options (also walk to Poly).  There's so much more at the Floridian than there's at Riviera.

So with that said, it's very likely the price will be higher than $207.  Probably not as high as the $255 direct, but certainly not the same price as Riviera.  Disney likely knows there's demand for VGF based on direct sales so they will price it accordingly.  I'm thinking it's going to be somewhere around $220.

Again, it's their flagship resort, why would they sell it at the same price as Riviera?  That would "cheapen the brand."  There's a reason VGF was the highest priced resort for direct sales.


----------



## Nabas

Einstein509 said:


> I know I'm in the minority here, but I agree with Jelly.  This is Disney's flagship resort, top of the line.  You can't compare it with Riviera.  Riviera doesn't even come close.  We're talking location (walk to MK, monorail), grandeur, dining options (also walk to Poly).  There's so much more at the Floridian than there's at Riviera.
> 
> So with that said, it's very likely the price will be higher than $207.  Probably not as high as the $255 direct, but certainly not the same price as Riviera.  Disney likely knows there's demand for VGF based on direct sales so they will price it accordingly.  I'm thinking it's going to be somewhere around $220.
> 
> Again, it's their flagship resort, why would they sell it at the same price as Riviera?  That would "cheapen the brand."  There's a reason VGF was the highest priced resort for direct sales.


The Riviera is on the Skyliner, which Disney has been marketing hard.  The Skyliner is in one of their current ads (and one that I see on TV all the time), with the RIV prominently appearing:




The Skyliner places the RIV within easy reach of two theme parks.

Look at the Riviera point chart.  It's just as expensive as VGF or PVB.  Disney is selling RIV as if it's just as good as a Monorail Resort.  Do you think they really want to position RIV as inferior by selling VGF2 for more?

Disney spent tens-of-millions tearing down Caribbean Beach Resort and building the RIV from scratch:





VGF2 is a quick turnaround of a 34 year-old building.  Based on information released so far, Big Pine Key will get a paint job and new furniture & carpeting.

Having stayed at both VGF and RIV in 2021, RIV is a nice facility, on par with the Grand Floridian.  Newer everything at RIV and no need to walk outside to reach the lobby or food court.  The RIV has a very nice pool and an excellent restaurant on the top floor.

Rumor is that the Grand Floridian may not be the flagship in a few years.  The Four Seasons already has put the Grand Floridian to shame (that's where those who want real luxury stay), and Disney is trying to determine if they can build a new resort on this plot of land to rival the Four Seasons (if they can economically solve its bedrock issues):




I just don't see VGF2 selling for more than RIV.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

Einstein509 said:


> I know I'm in the minority here, but I agree with Jelly.  This is Disney's flagship resort, top of the line.  You can't compare it with Riviera.  Riviera doesn't even come close.  We're talking location (walk to MK, monorail), grandeur, dining options (also walk to Poly).  There's so much more at the Floridian than there's at Riviera.
> 
> So with that said, it's very likely the price will be higher than $207.  Probably not as high as the $255 direct, but certainly not the same price as Riviera.  Disney likely knows there's demand for VGF based on direct sales so they will price it accordingly.  I'm thinking it's going to be somewhere around $220.
> 
> Again, it's their flagship resort, why would they sell it at the same price as Riviera?  That would "cheapen the brand."  There's a reason VGF was the highest priced resort for direct sales.


Riviera was intended to be the other flagship, at the same level as VGF. At least that’s what they told all of us.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

Nabas said:


> The Four Seasons already has put the Grand Floridian to shame


There’s no comparing the two. Grand Floridian (like all of the Deluxe resorts) is a 3-4 Star hotel (in the amenities sense), and Four Seasons is a top of the line 5 Star hotel. Disney doesn’t appear to be even trying to compete for that tier.


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## HIRyeDVC

Sandisw said:


> They don’t price sold out resorts to sell. They price them so only a die hard for that resort will want them because they don’t keep 2 million points in stock..which is what VGF will have.
> 
> VGF is not competing against those resorts. It will be for sale along with RIV.  So those are the two that will be discussed, not BWV or BCV. Most new buyers won’t ever know those can be bought.
> 
> Guides want to sell and having the two main resorts close in prices allows them to do that by promoting pros of both!!
> 
> We shall see…hopefully soon. I think if it comes out near sold out prices, it will struggle to sell.
> 
> And I can’t think of a reason why they stopped sales at $255 if they plan to price close to that. They could have continued current sales and just kept ROFR up there to fill it.


This gives me some hope for DLT


----------



## DVCsloth

Einstein509 said:


> I know I'm in the minority here, but I agree with Jelly.  This is Disney's flagship resort, top of the line.  You can't compare it with Riviera.  Riviera doesn't even come close.  We're talking location (walk to MK, monorail), grandeur, dining options (also walk to Poly).  There's so much more at the Floridian than there's at Riviera.
> 
> So with that said, it's very likely the price will be higher than $207.  Probably not as high as the $255 direct, but certainly not the same price as Riviera.  Disney likely knows there's demand for VGF based on direct sales so they will price it accordingly.  I'm thinking it's going to be somewhere around $220.
> 
> Again, it's their flagship resort, why would they sell it at the same price as Riviera?  That would "cheapen the brand."  There's a reason VGF was the highest priced resort for direct sales.


Riviera is such an awesome resort, love the Skyliner! Easy access to 2 parks, rooms seem very similar to VGF, except newer and possibly a little nicer in some ways. VGF is my home resort and my personal favorite. Not sure if I will add on though because of the Studio only option, which will be a positive for a lot of people. If we do add on it will most likely be additional CCV.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

HIRyeDVC said:


> This gives me some hope for DLT


I am far more certain that DLV will be line priced with Riviera and Aulani than I am VGF. If VGF is line priced you can take it to the bank that DLV will be.


----------



## Jwaire

Einstein509 said:


> Again, it's their flagship resort, why would they sell it at the same price as Riviera?  That would "cheapen the brand."  There's a reason VGF was the highest priced resort for direct sales.



My curmudgeon take. Grand Floridian has lost some of its luster and they're having trouble filling the rooms. The shiny new Skyliner is pushing people to want to stay at Rivera/Art of Animation and enjoy quick access to TWO parks and their new IP attractions (hello Galaxy's Edge, Guardian's of the Galaxy, Ratatouille and Frozen). I don't think they care if they sell out Rivera anytime soon. What they're getting per night on the cash side is astonishing.

Disney also wants to cut costs because of housekeeping ($17 per hour starting pay) and rising maintenance expenses (GF was built in the 80's), so they're converting it to DVC.

They're going to have to move millions of points, and from what we've seen, this is going to be a fast turnaround (otherwise known as cheap flip). I think they'll price it very similar to Rivera and maybe even lower with bonuses, add-on and minimum incentives.

Edit: Nabas beat me to it!


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

Jwaire said:


> My curmudgeon take. Grand Floridian has lost some of its luster and they're having trouble filling the rooms. The shiny new Skyliner is pushing people to want to stay at Rivera/Art of Animation and enjoy quick access to TWO parks and their new IP attractions (hello Galaxy's Edge, Guardian's of the Galaxy, Ratatouille and Frozen). I don't think they care if they sell out Rivera anytime soon. What they're getting per night on the cash side is astonishing.
> 
> Disney also wants to cut costs because of housekeeping ($17 per hour starting pay) and rising maintenance expenses (GF was built in the 80's), so they're converting it to DVC.


I don’t think that’s a curmudgeon take I think that’s basically exactly what’s happening!


----------



## HIRyeDVC

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> I am far more certain that DLV will be line priced with Riviera and Aulani than I am VGF. If VGF is line priced you can take it to the bank that DLV will be.


I don’t know. Anaheim is a different animal compared to Orlando. There are 14 resorts to choose from in Orlando. In Anaheim, there is only one. And because of the stifling politics, DLT will probably be it’s last DVC for a long time. Also, DLT is 2-3 years away, which means 2-3 more years of inflation. Maybe I‘m just girding my loins a bit too much.


----------



## Einstein509

Nabas said:


> The Riviera is on the Skyliner, which Disney has been marketing hard.  The Skyliner is in one of their current ads (and one that I see on TV all the time), with the RIV prominently appearing:
> 
> View attachment 641303
> 
> 
> The Skyliner places the RIV within easy reach of two theme parks.
> 
> Look at the Riviera point chart.  It's just as expensive as VGF or PVB.  Disney is selling RIV as if it's just as good as a Monorail Resort.  Do you think they really want to position RIV as inferior by selling VGF2 for more?
> 
> Disney spent tens-of-millions tearing down Caribbean Beach Resort and building the RIV from scratch:
> 
> View attachment 641295
> 
> 
> 
> VGF2 is a quick turnaround of a 34 year-old building.  Based on information released so far, Big Pine Key will get a paint job and new furniture & carpeting.
> 
> Having stayed at both VGF and RIV in 2021, RIV is a nice facility, on par with the Grand Floridian.  Newer everything at RIV and no need to walk outside to reach the lobby or food court.  The RIV has a very nice pool and an excellent restaurant on the top floor.
> 
> Rumor is that the Grand Floridian may not be the flagship in a few years.  The Four Seasons already has put the Grand Floridian to shame (that's where those who want real luxury stay), and Disney is trying to determine if they can build a new resort on this plot of land to rival the Four Seasons (if they can economically solve its bedrock issues):
> 
> View attachment 641301
> 
> 
> I just don't see VGF2 selling for more than RIV.


Riviera's location on the Skyliner is not a great selling point.  Have you seen the lines?  It goes down sometimes and the buses don't do the guests any favors.  I've experienced both in terms of long lines and having to bus somewhere because the system went down.  So I wouldn't term the Riviera as "easy access" to two parks.  That category is for BCV and BWV since you can walk to both parks.

Again, for me it's location.  It's a simple real estate term/idea and VGF has it.  There's a reason Riviera is not selling despite Disney pushing the exact things you mention.  People see through that......but I acknowledge that some don't or they have not experienced the location.  Again, VGF was the highest priced direct.....there's a reason for that.

I've seen these lines especially at park closing or after fireworks and they are not fun.  I thoroughly enjoy having the ability walk to my resort (BCV, BWV, VGF, Poly, BLT) and avoid the transportation lines.  We can agree to disagree and like I said, I'm in the minority here, but we'll find out soon enough what the price will be.  I'll be the first one to admit if I'm wrong.


----------



## Jwaire

HIRyeDVC said:


> I don’t know. Anaheim is a different animal compared to Orlando. There are 14 resorts to choose from in Orlando. In Anaheim, there is only one. And because of the stifling politics, DLT will probably be it’s last DVC for a long time. Also, DLT is 2-3 years away, which means 2-3 more years of inflation. Maybe I‘m just girding my loins a bit too much.



If you take them at their word for the Disneyland Forward project, Disneyland Hotel plays a huge role ($$$$+) in that expansion too. But that project could just be hype for property rights and taxes. We've heard a similar song and dance before.

https://disneylandforward.com/project/possibilities


----------



## Sandisw

Einstein509 said:


> I know I'm in the minority here, but I agree with Jelly.  This is Disney's flagship resort, top of the line.  You can't compare it with Riviera.  Riviera doesn't even come close.  We're talking location (walk to MK, monorail), grandeur, dining options (also walk to Poly).  There's so much more at the Floridian than there's at Riviera.
> 
> So with that said, it's very likely the price will be higher than $207.  Probably not as high as the $255 direct, but certainly not the same price as Riviera.  Disney likely knows there's demand for VGF based on direct sales so they will price it accordingly.  I'm thinking it's going to be somewhere around $220.
> 
> Again, it's their flagship resort, why would they sell it at the same price as Riviera?  That would "cheapen the brand."  There's a reason VGF was the highest priced resort for direct sales.



I stay at both and don't agree that VGF is heads over better than RIV.  I personally prefer RIV to VGF.   Everyone can certainly have an opinion about RIV vs. VGF, but from DVD's standpoint, and the guides standpoint, they both will be touted as fantastic options.

A new buyer has to get at least 150 points...if the price difference is $50/point more....which some are suggesting...that is over $7K difference for a resort that is studio heavy, and expires 6 years earlier...sure, it is near MK and for families with little ones, some may decide it will be worth it...but when they sell DVC, they sell the ability to trade to other resorts at 7 months.

Having two properties similar in price...one Epcot, and one MK...allows them to gear the sales pitch to the individual buyer and say "Well, since you know you want to be near MK a lot, VGF might meet your needs."...or "Oh, HS is your families favorite park?  Then RIV might be the better choice because of the Skyliner".

Vs. "Well, you want MK?  Then buy VGF even though it will cost you $7K more because getting in there at 7 months with the less expensive RIV points will be tough."  Hmmm...not sure that helps one sell the product very well.  

Again, we all are just speculating, but given the depressed sales overall right now, and the quick turnaround of the VGF building, it just seems hard to believe that the strategy will be a huge difference in price...unless they don't want to sell it..which in that case, why do it?


----------



## Sandisw

Einstein509 said:


> Riviera's location on the Skyliner is not a great selling point.  Have you seen the lines?  It goes down sometimes and the buses don't do the guests any favors.  I've experienced both in terms of long lines and having to bus somewhere because the system went down.  So I wouldn't term the Riviera as "easy access" to two parks.  That category is for BCV and BWV since you can walk to both parks.
> 
> Again, for me it's location.  It's a simple real estate term/idea and VGF has it.  There's a reason Riviera is not selling despite Disney pushing the exact things you mention.  People see through that......but I acknowledge that some don't or they have not experienced the location.  Again, VGF was the highest priced direct.....there's a reason for that.
> 
> I've seen these lines especially at park closing or after fireworks and they are not fun.  I thoroughly enjoy having the ability walk to my resort (BCV, BWV, VGF, Poly, BLT) and avoid the transportation lines.  We can agree to disagree and like I said, I'm in the minority here, but we'll find out soon enough what the price will be.  I'll be the first one to admit if I'm wrong.
> View attachment 641353View attachment 641358



I have waited in lines that long for buses and the monorail too.  The difference was that the Skyliner moved a lot faster at park closing than it did with those other options.  Granted, we only did the Skyliner at close once...we usually leave parks before closing now....but definitely have experienced long waits with the monorail when staying at VGF before the walkway...


----------



## Jwaire

Einstein509 said:


> Riviera's location on the Skyliner is not a great selling point.  Have you seen the lines?  It goes down sometimes and the buses don't do the guests any favors.  I've experienced both in terms of long lines and having to bus somewhere because the system went down.  So I wouldn't term the Riviera as "easy access" to two parks.  That category is for BCV and BWV since you can walk to both parks.



Rivera was strategically placed there. Disney could have built the Skyliner to directly connect Epcot and Hollywood Studios, but they chose to detour it to Rivera and Caribbean Beach to sell those properties. I even wonder if they don't intend to demolish Caribbean Beach someday (it's the oldest moderate resort) and fully build out Rivera Part II in its place.

I think the jury is out on Skyliner. Guests love it. People ride it just to ride it. It's the new monorail, except you get a semi-private cab. I just got back a few weeks ago and it was the one positive thing people were talking about. I saw a kid throwing a fit because he wanted to take the Skyliner to Magic Kingdom.  

Do I agree with you on BCV and BWV as being more convenient? Yeah, but they're older, "sold out" and not marketable.

The poor monorail. The monorail has more issues now than ever. Of the three days of my trip last month I was in the Magic Kingdom area, it was towed off the beams TWICE. They haven't kept up the maintenance on the trains (broke speakers, stuck doors, etc.) and the new holding safety protocols make it much less efficient. I hope they give it the love it deserves with new trains and a modern safety system soon.


----------



## HIRyeDVC

Jwaire said:


> Rivera was strategically placed there. Disney could have built the Skyliner to directly connect Epcot and Hollywood Studios, but they chose to detour it to Rivera and Caribbean Beach to sell those properties. I even wonder if they don't intend to demolish Caribbean Beach someday (it's the oldest moderate resort) and fully build out Rivera Part II in its place.
> 
> I think the jury is out on Skyliner. Guests love it. People ride it just to ride it. It's the new monorail, except you get a semi-private cab. I just got back a few weeks ago and it was the one positive thing people were talking about. I saw a kid throwing a fit because he wanted to take the Skyliner to Magic Kingdom.
> 
> Do I agree with you on BCV and BWV as being more convenient? Yeah, but they're older, "sold out" and not marketable.
> 
> The poor monorail. The monorail has more issues now than ever. Of the three days of my trip last month I was in the Magic Kingdom area, it was towed off the beams TWICE. They haven't kept up the maintenance on the trains (broke speakers, stuck doors, etc.) and the new holding safety protocols make it much less efficient. I hope they give it the love it deserves with new trains and a modern safety system soon.


You raise a good point. I too got stuck at Riviera when the skyliner shutdown because of weather. But to be honest, I saw every form of transportation go down at some point due to weather or maintenance issues. And at park closing at every park, the lines for EVERY mode of transportation are nuts! I think the skyliner receives an unfair amount of criticism compared to other modes of transport. And yeah, I saw the monorail get stuck so many times between MK and the Contemporary. That’s why nothing beats relying on your own two feet to get to and from the parks. Thats why the 3 B’s reign supreme for me.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

HIRyeDVC said:


> I don’t know. Anaheim is a different animal compared to Orlando. There are 14 resorts to choose from in Orlando. In Anaheim, there is only one. And because of the stifling politics, DLT will probably be it’s last DVC for a long time. Also, DLT is 2-3 years away, which means 2-3 more years of inflation. Maybe I‘m just girding my loins a bit too much.


GF is supposed to be the premier hotel at WDW. DLH is supposed to be the 2nd best hotel at DLR. It’s also at a resort where the majority of guests are locals, it’s also quite a walk to the parks, and the DVC tower is going to be even further still. You can stay at a dozen hotels in Anaheim that are a shorter walk to Disneyland than the Disneyland Hotel’s DVC tower will be. There’s also effectively no onsite advantages at DLR. it is a different animal but I think in the opposite of the way that you think.

And yes, there will be inflation, but it will be the same with Riviera and Aulani too. I imagine we’ll see an opening price of $213 if it opens next year (still in play) or $220 if it slips to 2024.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

HIRyeDVC said:


> And because of the stifling politics, DLT will probably be it’s last DVC for a long time


Anaheim’s zoning commission approved the Disneyland DVC project unanimously the first time Disney asked, and the city council didn’t even ask for public comment on it. Things were brutal between Anaheim and Disney circa 2015 but the entire council has turned over since then.


----------



## DisneyKim41

How will they work resale restrictions with Grand Floridian 2? Do we think it will have same restrictions as Riviera?


----------



## UrsulaWantsYourSoul

DisneyKim41 said:


> How will they work resale restrictions with Grand Floridian 2? Do we think it will have same restrictions as Riviera?


I know it’s 42 pages and no one wants to start from the beginning but this question has been asked and answered many times in this thread.

Edit: Apologize for my curtness.  It's a great question and appreciate you participating in the boards.  Thanks @HIRyeDVC for answering the general consensus below.


----------



## HIRyeDVC

DisneyKim41 said:


> How will they work resale restrictions with Grand Floridian 2? Do we think it will have same restrictions as Riviera?


The new building is part of the same condo association so the assumption is that it will not have resale restrictions. But no one knows for sure yet.


----------



## BrianLo

What if Disney spent less than 10$ a point converting Big Pine into DVC? Which is what they probably did. This is why they'll happily sell them 'for cheap' at 207$.


----------



## Nabas

BrianLo said:


> What if Disney spent less than 10$ a point converting Big Pine into DVC? Which is what they probably did. This is why they'll happily sell them 'for cheap' at 207$.


Right but DVD has to buy the building from Disney before DVD can sell points.

The Grand Floridian hotel is going to lose revenue from that building forever. Presumably, DVD will pay fair market value.


----------



## CarolMN

Nabas said:


> Right but DVD has to buy the building from Disney before DVD can sell points.
> 
> The Grand Floridian hotel is going to lose revenue from that building forever. Presumably, DVD will pay fair market value.


  It's probably going to be just an accounting adjustment between departments and not a problem.  Resorts wouldn't be willing to give up the building if the GF was filling all of its rooms.  It's not.  This is a win for the GF Resort.  They get rid of excess capacity (that they can't sell at the current rates) and they get to transfer a proportionate share of the common expenses to DVC.


----------



## Nabas

CarolMN said:


> It's probably going to be just an accounting adjustment between departments and not a problem.  Resorts wouldn't be willing to give up the building if the GF was filling all of its rooms.  It's not.  This is a win for the GF Resort.  They get rid of excess capacity (that they can't sell at the current rates) and they get to transfer a proportionate share of the common expenses to DVC.


I understand what you're saying but if Disney is like most corporations, one division doesn't just give away an asset to another division.  The Grand Floridian hotel is losing a physical asset, plus the revenue generated by that asset.  I'm guessing this has to be a formal transfer, with the cost of the transfer being registered as a cost against the points to be sold.

My point is, the "cost" of VGF2 is going to be recorded as more than the money spent on converting the building.  I believe it's also going to be the cost of DVD acquiring the building.   Yes, it's (mostly) a "bookkeeping thing", but I suspect DVD's gross margin is going to be based on the cost of the building, any improvements made during conversion, plus the overhead cost (including commission) of sale.

@BrianLo wrote:

What if Disney spent less than 10$ a point converting Big Pine into DVC? Which is what they probably did. This is why they'll happily sell them 'for cheap' at 207$.​
I'm simply saying that the cost of selling VGF2 is going to be a lot more than the cost of converting the Big Pine Key building.

Even with those additional costs, the profit margin at $207 is still going to be huge.


----------



## jbreen2010

Einstein509 said:


> I know I'm in the minority here, but I agree with Jelly.  This is Disney's flagship resort, top of the line.  You can't compare it with Riviera.  Riviera doesn't even come close.  We're talking location (walk to MK, monorail), grandeur, dining options (also walk to Poly).  There's so much more at the Floridian than there's at Riviera.
> 
> So with that said, it's very likely the price will be higher than $207.  Probably not as high as the $255 direct, but certainly not the same price as Riviera.  Disney likely knows there's demand for VGF based on direct sales so they will price it accordingly.  I'm thinking it's going to be somewhere around $220.
> 
> Again, it's their flagship resort, why would they sell it at the same price as Riviera?  That would "cheapen the brand."  There's a reason VGF was the highest priced resort for direct sales.



i agree with you both here.
I get it - RIV is supposed to also be extremely luxurious…but in comparing grand Floridian I just feel like GF is their flagship hotel. 10 min walk on newly paved walkway to MK, being on the historic monorail loop, large sized studios being added (which I believe are the hardest category to book).

initally I was thinking this would start to sell at $250…my guess is somewhere $225-$240 range with incentives. Likely higher incentives for current DVC members than new members (putting it on a more level playing field for current members trying to add on and still just a slight premium for new DVC members.)

Plus if Disney reads these boards and sees the excitement with this release (so many people saying they would easily pay $201 or $207), why would you not go in at $225 just to squeeze a few more bucks.  I’m sure it’s a delicate straddle between having 100 people say they def want it at $207/pt vs 95 saying I’ll still take it at $225.

I would think they want to sell this for a few years here so I’m also thinking they’re not trying to move all 2Million points in 2022.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

BrianLo said:


> What if Disney spent less than 10$ a point converting Big Pine into DVC? Which is what they probably did. This is why they'll happily sell them 'for cheap' at 207$.


My rough guesstimate is that it will wind up more like $15-$20/point, assuming they re-drywall and buy super durable furniture etc. Still a lot cheaper than a new build.


----------



## BrianLo

Nabas said:


> I understand what you're saying but if Disney is like most corporations, one division doesn't just give away an asset to another division.  The Grand Floridian hotel is losing a physical asset, plus the revenue generated by that asset.  I'm guessing this has to be a formal transfer, with the cost of the transfer being registered as a cost against the points to be sold.
> 
> My point is, the "cost" of VGF2 is going to be recorded as more than the money spent on converting the building.  I believe it's also going to be the cost of DVD acquiring the building.   Yes, it's (mostly) a "bookkeeping thing", but I suspect DVD's gross margin is going to be based on the cost of the building, any improvements made during conversion, plus the overhead cost (including commission) of sale.
> 
> @BrianLo wrote:
> 
> What if Disney spent less than 10$ a point converting Big Pine into DVC? Which is what they probably did. This is why they'll happily sell them 'for cheap' at 207$.​
> I'm simply saying that the cost of selling VGF2 is going to be a lot more than the cost of converting the Big Pine Key building.
> 
> Even with those additional costs, the profit margin at $207 is still going to be huge.



Yes, totally agree with you ultimately the 'cost' is not merely the refurb. But the actual Capex line item as far as shareholders will be concerned is much more minimal than say Reflections. 

The opportunity cost against Grand Floridian cash bookings is negative, but it seems like Disney struggles to fill cash rooms. It's all just shuffling chairs, but when posters feel VGF2 is too cheap, it's definitely designed to be.

They want it to be "attractive" and they want to it sell quickly because Disney wants the cash now, not in 2025 *hopefully* post pandemic or when D+ starts being profitable. They also want very minimal Capex spend to get to that cash right now, which 207$ when the resale market was nearly pushing that level achieves.

While it seems like an unbelievable price, it both isn't and Disney is highly motivated to move it. This is the context of why 207$ makes sense and if Disney is really desperate they can push some spectacular incentives.


----------



## Paul Stupin

Jelly563 said:


> Now that Boardwalk is $230 pp direct, I HIGHLY doubt that VGF will be offered for the ridiculous price people here have stated ($207 - $210). Imagine that pitch...... BWV is $230 with only 20 yrs left but you can have VGF for the low low bargain price of $207 (with incentives) and it goes till 2062...... YEA RIGHT


We’ll know in a few weeks, but with Riviera selling at that price now, and VGF2 coming on line with 2 million points Disney will need to unload, you really think they’ll start with such a high price point? The minimum 150 point purchase for new buyers at even $207 is over 31K, and that won’t even get a week in a studio during many times of the year. That’s not a “low, low bargain price.”


----------



## Paul Stupin

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> GF is supposed to be the premier hotel at WDW. DLH is supposed to be the 2nd best hotel at DLR. It’s also at a resort where the majority of guests are locals, it’s also quite a walk to the parks, and the DVC tower is going to be even further still. You can stay at a dozen hotels in Anaheim that are a shorter walk to Disneyland than the Disneyland Hotel’s DVC tower will be. There’s also effectively no onsite advantages at DLR. it is a different animal but I think in the opposite of the way that you think.
> 
> And yes, there will be inflation, but it will be the same with Riviera and Aulani too. I imagine we’ll see an opening price of $213 if it opens next year (still in play) or $220 if it slips to 2024.


Though I’m not super excited about DLT either, it won’t be “quite a walk to the parks.” Having just stayed at the Disneyland Hotel, I’d say it’s less than a ten minute walk. That’s even less than the walk from the Contemporary to the Magic Kingdom. There are some hotels on the other side of Disneyland where the walk is a bit shorter, but then it’s a longer walk to Downtown Disney, and most of them seem kind of rundown.


----------



## pinkxray

I am horrible at predicting what DVC will but I am really hoping for something closer to $207. 
I am looking to add on at an MK resort and at $207 will add on direct VGF. I don’t have direct points yet and would like some unrestricted points.
On the other hand, my DH hates GF so anything over $210ish, I‘m out. I’ll just purchase resale BLT and hope to book an MK resort at 7 months or use my savings to get a transfer once in awhile.


----------



## Ruttangel

Just wondering if anyone had heard if member adding on would be minimum of 25 or 50 pts?


----------



## dvc lover 1970

I am guessing it opens at 225 per point if sales are slow they offer incentives to bring the price down to 200 point


----------



## nuhusky123

Disney stock is in trouble as investors now question Disney+ subscriber growth given Netflix is likewise in trouble

disney+ was the golden child but now Disney cannot rely on Disney+ to prop up the stock

parks and dvc must now start looking more profitable. Where dvc may have been able to be more greedy with a good looking Disney stock I think that ship has sailed. Dvc needs the money from gfv ASAP, not in ten years. 

honestly $207 in this economy is pushing it. Riv is not selling well at $201 and and that was in somewhat good time. Inflation is going to get worse before it gets better. I’d expect dvc sales across the board decrease short term and increasing riv to $207 isn’t going to help.

alas the price will rise but I think gfv trying to get a premium above riv will simply mean gfv fails to sell well. in the current environment Disney needs the next couple of quarters to look much much better otherwise fy22 is going to be a bad one for chapek


----------



## Sandisw

Ruttangel said:


> Just wondering if anyone had heard if member adding on would be minimum of 25 or 50 pts?



I bet it’s raised to the 50 minimum they are at with RIV.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

Paul Stupin said:


> There are some hotels on the other side of Disneyland where the walk is a bit shorter, but then it’s a longer walk to Downtown Disney, and most of them seem kind of rundown.


Some are and many aren’t, but the point is they are 1/5th the price of Disneyland Hotel for an experience that isn’t particularly different in any appreciable way.


----------



## Nabas

nuhusky123 said:


> honestly $207 in this economy is pushing it. Riv is not selling well at $201 and and that was in somewhat good time. Inflation is going to get worse before it gets better. I’d expect dvc sales across the board decrease short term and increasing riv to $207 isn’t going to help.


As you note, RIV sales have been subpar since the start of the pandemic.  Increasingly, it's difficult to imagine how opening VGF2 at a high price will help Disney's revenue.


----------



## nuhusky123

given current economic and political uncertainty in the Ukraine were I dvc I’d hold on increasing riv prices and then match gfv at $201. I think increasing riv to $207 is premature and will result in further decline in sales at that resort

if the Ukraine is invaded sanctions will cripple Russia but impact to the rest of us will be higher fuel prices. the US is already discussing increased fuel production to offset Russian imports. The eu however relies overwhelmingly on Russian natural gas an fuel imports. The impact will be more expensive everything thereby making buying luxuries harder. Us and eu citizens will see their spending power decrease 

although we may view Disney as a basic need, in reality everything Disney sells is a luxury.

is the sky falling today, no, but Disney would be foolish to overprice gfv given these uncertainties


----------



## zebsterama

Obviously who knows what will happen -- it's always fun to speculate.

Some are saying $207 is too high in this inflationary economy with rising interest rates, and others are saying it's got to be $225 PP, or something in that range: this is after all Disney's flagship resort ... just look at the enthusiasm on this board alone.

My 2 cents ... I think that *WE* "DVC and all things Disney Enthusiasts" are not the primary target of DVC. Yes they will take our money, smile, and run, but its the newbie's they need, and want: if for no other reason, sheer volume alone.

Starting (and let me emphasize "starting") at $207 does a lot positive things for DVC sales IMO:

*1.* I think it's really bad optics if you start at $225, and then are forced to drop prices to say $215 or $207. It cheapens the brand, and it makes people wonder ... "if I wait long enough will DVC's GF price drop even lower??"

Start at $207 PP, and if sales pick up, raising the price is a perfectly acceptable practice in our capitalistic fun filled world. You could even announce (based on recent precedence) ... today's GF price is $207 PP, but come May 1 2022 it goes up to $215 PP. All you fence sitters, you better get it while it's hot!! 

*2.* Starting at $207, forces the sales conversation/engagement to go further/deeper: a sales persons dream , because now you are forced to compare resorts, benefits, preferences etc. There will be newbies (and people like us) who will be sitting down with their sales rep, and they will really be challenged / incentivized to chat -- i.e. "which resort is really better for me and my family --- RIV or GF?" ... as we see many examples with this thread.

How does this point have any relation to price?  Price is KING - and you need an apples to apples comparison on price, to drive that interaction/choice/sale. By starting the price at $207, you may (believe it or not) drive sales into RIV that were originally intended for GF. $207 PP provides you with that opportunity, $225 narrows your choice exponentially.

Furthermore - by executing point *1* (see price raise hype on May 1, 2022) you may drive a lot of sales into RIV for a short spurt and create an artificial demand cycle. Fear of missing out, is the great driver of western culture --- just ask my millennial children, but I digress.

*3. *DVC is super expensive. At the best of times, there's  serious sticker shock. Those DVC sales people in those kiosks, standing in the sun between Future World and World Pavilion (or whatever they call it now  ), *need a punchers chance at making a sale*. I think $225PP at the onset (or something north of $207PP to start) is a bridge too far. The 150 minimal entry point for newbie's is a real killer IMO.  I have nothing to prove this -- I just think you're excluding a huge demographic in an unfavorable time when you need to pump out 80+K points a month --- and *WE* on this board just can't buy them all. 

... but wouldn't it be great if we could? 

Anyhoo -- it's all fun and games talking about it ...  ... I guess we'll find out.
I'm likely totally wrong -- it has happened!!! ... just ask my wife 

This reply is already *too long *--- my apologies (I'm Canadian)  --- like you, I'm looking forward to seeing what's what soon!

Cheers


----------



## Sandisw

zebsterama said:


> Obviously who knows what will happen -- it's always fun to speculate.
> 
> Some are saying $207 is too high in this inflationary economy with rising interest rates, and others are saying it's got to be $225 PP, or something in that range: this is after all Disney's flagship resort ... just look at the enthusiasm on this board alone.
> 
> My 2 cents ... I think that *WE* "DVC and all things Disney Enthusiasts" are not the primary target of DVC. Yes they will take our money, smile, and run, but its the newbie's they need, and want: if for no other reason, sheer volume alone.
> 
> Starting (and let me emphasize "starting") at $207 does a lot positive things for DVC sales IMO:
> 
> *1.* I think it's really bad optics if you start at $225, and then are forced to drop prices to say $215 or $207. It cheapens the brand, and it makes people wonder ... "if I wait long enough will DVC's GF price drop even lower??"
> 
> Start at $207 PP, and if sales pick up, raising the price is a perfectly acceptable practice in our capitalistic fun filled world. You could even announce (based on recent precedence) ... today's GF price is $207 PP, but come May 1 2022 it goes up to $215 PP. All you fence sitters, you better get it while it's hot!!
> 
> *2.* Starting at $207, forces the sales conversation/engagement to go further/deeper: a sales persons dream , because now you are forced to compare resorts, benefits, preferences etc. There will be newbies (and people like us) who will be sitting down with their sales rep, and they will really be challenged / incentivized to chat -- i.e. "which resort is really better for me and my family --- RIV or GF?" ... as we see many examples with this thread.
> 
> How does this point have any relation to price?  Price is KING - and you need an apples to apples comparison on price, to drive that interaction/choice/sale. By starting the price at $207, you may (believe it or not) drive sales into RIV that were originally intended for GF. $207 PP provides you with that opportunity, $225 narrows your choice exponentially.
> 
> Furthermore - by executing point *1* (see price raise hype on May 1, 2022) you may drive a lot of sales into RIV for a short spurt and create an artificial demand cycle. Fear of missing out, is the great driver of western culture --- just ask my millennial children, but I digress.
> 
> *3. *DVC is super expensive. At the best of times, there's serious sticker shock. Those DVC sales people in those kiosks, standing in the sun between Future World and World Pavilion (or whatever they call it now  ), *need a punchers chance at making a sale*. I think $225PP at the onset (or something north of $207PP to start) is a bridge too far. The 150 minimal entry point for newbie's is a real killer IMO.  I have nothing to prove this -- I just think you're excluding a huge demographic in an unfavorable time when you need to pump out 80+K points a month --- and *WE* on this board just can't buy them all.
> 
> ... but wouldn't it be great if we could?
> 
> Anyhoo -- it's all fun and games talking about it ...  ... I guess we'll find out.
> I'm likely totally wrong -- it has happened!!! ... just ask my wife
> 
> This reply is already *too long *--- my apologies (I'm Canadian)  --- like you, I'm looking forward to seeing what's what soon!
> 
> Cheers



These are all great points. Last Spring and early Summer, the sales data did suggest that price was a factor with new buyers as points were sold at SSR when it was the lowest (and then OKW when it became the lowest).

So, those new buyers...which I also agree is the target...not the small section of owners here...could be faced with an amount where that extra buy in cost makes a difference.  My hope is 2 weeks left until we get some prices!!!


----------



## nuhusky123

Sandisw said:


> These are all great points in last Spring and early Summer, the sales data did suggest that price was a factor with new buyers as points were sold at SSR when it was the lowest (and then OKW when it became the lowest).
> 
> So, those new buyers...which I also agree is the target...not the small section of owners here...could be faced with an amount where that extra buy in cost makes a difference.  My hope is 2 weeks left until we get some prices!!!


I agree the new to dvc is the target. Given 150 point minimum thats the price of a new car. do buyers buy the new car they have been delaying due to supply shortages or pick up dvc

one is a necessity for most, the other a luxury 

I also think the value of everyone’s retirement funds will take a hit over the course of the next few weeks as we do seem to be in a correction with drum beats of war and inflation fanning the flames


----------



## Sandisw

nuhusky123 said:


> I agree the new to dvc is the target. Given 150 point minimum thats the price of a new car. do buyers buy the new car they have been delaying due to supply shortages or pick up dvc
> 
> one is a necessity for most, the other a luxury
> 
> I also think the value of everyone’s retirement funds will take a hit over the course of the next few weeks as we do seem to be in a correction with drum beats of war and inflation fanning the flames



Of course, it will all depend on the goals of DVD too...they don't always seem to do things we understand!  I would assume they want to sell the product and the magic that goes with it vs. just one resort so any level of price difference that can be seen as big.....could back fire on them for total sales.

So, initial starting price close if not the same as RIV would seem like the logical move to spark initial sales, and then raise it if its selling like hot cakes.  Also, the points from the new building will not be eligible for trips until that building opens...RIV points are available for immediate stays...for VGF, one would have to be deeded to the current building to get that and they may or may not do that before the building opens.


----------



## Einstein509

HIRyeDVC said:


> That’s why nothing beats relying on your own two feet to get to and from the parks. Thats why the 3 B’s reign supreme for me.


This.  Location, location, location.

That's my main point with VGF.  We own only at resorts that have walking access to the parks.  After standing in bus, monorail, ferry boat, etc. lines.....we were done with that.  Despite all of the other valid points being made on this forum, you can't beat VGF's location and Disney knows that.

This may not apply to Disney newbies as some of the posts alluded to, especially since Riviera's location on the Skyliner is a selling point.  Folks made some good points about the demographic DVD is targeting with VGF2 and I didn't take that into account.  However, I still think the higher price is more likely.  There's plenty of people out there with a ton of cash and with everything Disney has done lately in terms of pricing, it's clear they are targeting a higher level income demographic.  Just look at AP prices.  A few years ago, they were priced around $700-$800, which is still a lot.  Now they are around $1200.  That's a huge increase in a relatively short timeframe.....and people will buy them when they go on sale again otherwise Disney wouldn't have priced them at that price point.  So if a family of four is willing to spend $5000 on a year long annual pass, why wouldn't folks have money to buy in to VGF2 at $220?  That equates to roughly $33,000 for many, many years of use.  At $207, it would cost roughly $31,000.  At these price points, if you're already spending upwards of $30k, what's another $2k?

If it's one thing we've seen with the current regime, it's that they will squeeze every dime out of us if they can.  I think that mindset trumps everything else and they will go with a higher price point, just to make more $$$.

Disney isn't stupid.....when they see people lining up for six hours to buy a plastic popcorn bucket for $30, they know there's money out there.  Even ear headbands almost doubled in price over the last few years ($17 versus $30 now).


----------



## sndral

Nabas said:


> As you note, RIV sales have been subpar since the start of the pandemic.  Increasingly, it's difficult to imagine how opening VGF2 at a high price will help Disney's revenue.
> 
> View attachment 641564


Thank you for the chart, the difference in Riviera sales pre & post pandemic onset is an eye opener. It’d be interesting to see what happened to DVC sales in the 07-09 era since we may be poised on a similar precipice.


----------



## Sandisw

Einstein509 said:


> This.  Location, location, location.
> 
> That's my main point with VGF.  We own only at resorts that have walking access to the parks.  After standing in bus, monorail, ferry boat, etc. lines.....we were done with that.  Despite all of the other valid points being made on this forum, you can't beat VGF's location and Disney knows that.
> 
> This may not apply to Disney newbies as some of the posts alluded to, especially since Riviera's location on the Skyliner is a selling point.  Folks made some good points about the demographic DVD is targeting with VGF2 and I didn't take that into account.  However, I still think the higher price is more likely.  There's plenty of people out there with a ton of cash and with everything Disney has done lately in terms of pricing, it's clear they are targeting a higher level income demographic.  Just look at AP prices.  A few years ago, they were priced around $700-$800, which is still a lot.  Now they are around $1200.  That's a huge increase in a relatively short timeframe.....and people will buy them when they go on sale again otherwise Disney wouldn't have priced them at that price point.  So if a family of four is willing to spend $5000 on a year long annual pass, why wouldn't folks have money to buy in to VGF2 at $220?  That equates to roughly $33,000 for many, many years of use.  At $207, it would cost roughly $31,000.  At these price points, if you're already spending upwards of $30k, what's another $2k?
> 
> If it's one thing we've seen with the current regime, it's that they will squeeze every dime out of us if they can.  I think that mindset trumps everything else and they will go with a higher price point, just to make more $$$.
> 
> Disney isn't stupid.....when they see people lining up for six hours to buy a plastic popcorn bucket for $30, they know there's money out there.  Even ear headbands almost doubled in price over the last few years ($17 versus $30 now).



Isn't that extra $2K about two years worth of MF's (assuming $207 vs. $225) ?? If it comes out with a larger spread...which some have predicted it will be near sold out price...its at least $7 K.  So, how do you sell that aspect to someone who says "Can't I just buy RIV for less, and trade into it at 7 months since you are telling me that it is so easy?'  or "What makes a resort that has 6 less years cost more if I can stay at all the resorts?"

Now, the walking path was a game changer for VGF...and for some families who see wanting to be at MK and in studios, I agree those buyers will be willing to pay more for VGF...the big question is will that be the bulk of the target audience??? Or, will those new buyers be cost conscience and choose a resort that fits the budget better???


----------



## Einstein509

Sandisw said:


> the big question is will that be the bulk of the target audience??? Or, will those new buyers be cost conscience and choose a resort that fits the budget better???


I guess we'll find out soon enough!


----------



## Paul Stupin

Einstein509 said:


> This.  Location, location, location.
> 
> That's my main point with VGF.  We own only at resorts that have walking access to the parks.  After standing in bus, monorail, ferry boat, etc. lines.....we were done with that.  Despite all of the other valid points being made on this forum, you can't beat VGF's location and Disney knows that.
> 
> This may not apply to Disney newbies as some of the posts alluded to, especially since Riviera's location on the Skyliner is a selling point.  Folks made some good points about the demographic DVD is targeting with VGF2 and I didn't take that into account.  However, I still think the higher price is more likely.  There's plenty of people out there with a ton of cash and with everything Disney has done lately in terms of pricing, it's clear they are targeting a higher level income demographic.  Just look at AP prices.  A few years ago, they were priced around $700-$800, which is still a lot.  Now they are around $1200.  That's a huge increase in a relatively short timeframe.....and people will buy them when they go on sale again otherwise Disney wouldn't have priced them at that price point.  So if a family of four is willing to spend $5000 on a year long annual pass, why wouldn't folks have money to buy in to VGF2 at $220?  That equates to roughly $33,000 for many, many years of use.  At $207, it would cost roughly $31,000.  At these price points, if you're already spending upwards of $30k, what's another $2k?
> 
> If it's one thing we've seen with the current regime, it's that they will squeeze every dime out of us if they can.  I think that mindset trumps everything else and they will go with a higher price point, just to make more $$$.
> 
> Disney isn't stupid.....when they see people lining up for six hours to buy a plastic popcorn bucket for $30, they know there's money out there.  Even ear headbands almost doubled in price over the last few years ($17 versus $30 now).



Not sure that lining up for a popcorn bucket equates to plunking down a minimum of 31K that will only give you a VGF studio for a week at certain times of the year. And not sure that "there are plenty of people out there with a ton of cash" who will be willing to buy VGF2 points indiscriminately. More well off buyers are savvy ones too, and they're just as eager, if not more so, to spend their money wisely. A VGF2 price thats set too high will potentially drive them elsewhere as well.

But, as you said, we'll find out soon enough!


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

I said it several pages back but I’ll say it again:

Timeshare margins are so massive that they maximize profits more by selling quickly and moving along to the next build than they do by charging the highest price.

They’ll make way more money over the next 5 years in they price VGF to sell out VGF in 9 months and have another conversation ready to go in 2023 than they will if they price VGF to sell out in 18 months and have another conversation ready in 2024.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

If price were the sole driving indicator, logic has it that RIV would be near selling out. And it is not. There are other factors, some of which we are not aware of, that are going to determine the starting price.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

BWV Dreamin said:


> If price were the sole driving indicator, logic has it that RIV would be near selling out. And it is not. There are other factors, some of which we are not aware of, that are going to determine the starting price.


I personally think the slow sales of Riviera are a point in favor of a lower price for VGF not a higher one.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> I personally think the slow sales of Riviera are a point in favor of a lower price for VGF not a higher one.


Regardless of the environment, purchases like these follow the laws of supply and demand. Too much supply? Not enough demand? Look at the housing market. Homes are still selling like wildfire….


----------



## nuhusky123

BWV Dreamin said:


> Regardless of the environment, purchases like these follow the laws of supply and demand. Too much supply? Not enough demand? Look at the housing market. Homes are still selling like wildfire….


Right, so by the same logic of supply and demand injecting 2,000,000 new points increases supply thereby decreasing the price

homes are selling at record prices because the supply is limited

the supply has been limited at gfv hence the $255

just like housing, as supply increases and catches up with demand prices will come down

at gfv 2,000,000 new points increases supply, catching up with demand thereby dictating a price decrease


----------



## davidl81

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> I said it several pages back but I’ll say it again:
> 
> Timeshare margins are so massive that they maximize profits more by selling quickly and moving along to the next build than they do by charging the highest price.
> 
> They’ll make way more money over the next 5 years in they price VGF to sell out VGF in 9 months and have another conversation ready to go in 2023 than they will if they price VGF to sell out in 18 months and have another conversation ready in 2024.


ROI is directly correlated to the amount of time between initial capital outlay and return of capital.  That seems to be lost on a lot of people posting here.  Disney has 0 interest in “slow selling” VGF.  Each project is judged on its ROI metrics.  They won’t intentionally lower the ROI on VGF just because they have “nothing to sell next”.  They 100% will have something to sell next, we just don’t know what that is, but DVD sure does.


----------



## davidl81

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> I personally think the slow sales of Riviera are a point in favor of a lower price for VGF not a higher one.


I could get the argument for pricing VGF higher if RIV was flying off of the shelves, but it is not.


----------



## RamblinWreck

Jelly563 said:


> Now that Boardwalk is $230 pp direct, I HIGHLY doubt that VGF will be offered for the ridiculous price people here have stated ($207 - $210). Imagine that pitch...... BWV is $230 with only 20 yrs left but you can have VGF for the low low bargain price of $207 (with incentives) and it goes till 2062...... YEA RIGHT


Are you saying that sounds like a bad pitch??

That sounds like a great pitch! Especially since they have no interest in selling BWV and they’ll have WAY more VGF points to sell.

If you keep calling prices from $207-$210 “ridiculous”, it might become true someday though. Don’t lose faith!


----------



## BWV Dreamin

nuhusky123 said:


> Right, so by the same logic of supply and demand injecting 2,000,000 new points increases supply thereby decreasing the price
> 
> homes are selling at record prices because the supply is limited
> 
> the supply has been limited at gfv hence the $255
> 
> just like housing, as supply increases and catches up with demand prices will come down
> 
> at gfv 2,000,000 new points increases supply, catching up with demand thereby dictating a price decrease


So I’d love to hear your reason for the lack of sales at Riviera?


----------



## BWV Dreamin

davidl81 said:


> I could get the argument for pricing VGF higher if RIV was flying off of the shelves, but it is not.


Maybe the demand is just not there…doesn’t necessarily mean it’s the price, but maybe the restrictions…..


----------



## davidl81

BWV Dreamin said:


> Maybe the demand is just not there…doesn’t necessarily mean it’s the price, but maybe the restrictions…..


It sold decently well with restrictions at a lower price pre covid…


----------



## Nabas

davidl81 said:


> It sold decently well with restrictions at a lower price pre covid…


Yes it did.

Reposting  what I posted earlier.



The weak DVC sales started with the March 2020 shutdown due to COVID.  Sales plummeted to 0 and have not yet fully recovered.

DVC sales reflect what is happening to theme park attendance.  Nearly all new DVC sales originate at the theme parks.

Sales won’t rebound until theme park attendance rebounds.  That doesn’t happen until people feel safe traveling and the economy stabilizes.


----------



## Sandisw

BWV Dreamin said:


> So I’d love to hear your reason for the lack of sales at Riviera?



The pandemic hit DVC sales hard and it’s slow to rebound.

There is no precedent for that and the sales prior to the shut down were some of the best and restrictions existed.

Last month, 74k sold, about 66% of total sales. Not great..most were closer to 75 % but certainly not a failure given the current travel situation.

We will never know the true impact of the past 18 months until we have something to compare it to.

IIRC, many international owners can’t buy except onsite..I wonder how many buyers fell in that category? Travel just resumed not too long ago. I imagine that had to impact sales to some degree.  

Now, if VGF comes online and sells substantially better than what RIV is currently doing..then we can attribute it more to resort.

But, what if it doesn’t? What if it has similar numbers to what RIV is at now? Will people say it’s the resort?


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

Nabas said:


> Yes it did.
> 
> Reposting  what I posted earlier.
> 
> View attachment 641735
> 
> The weak DVC sales started with the March 2020 shutdown due to COVID.  Sales plummeted to 0 and have not yet fully recovered.
> 
> DVC sales reflect what is happening to theme park attendance.  Nearly all new DVC sales originate at the theme parks.
> 
> Sales won’t rebound until theme park attendance rebounds.  That doesn’t happen until people feel safe traveling and the economy stabilizes.


I wonder if the minimum increase drove some of it as well. $19000 sounds a lot more affordable than $31000


----------



## VegasDisneyMom

Ruttangel said:


> Just wondering if anyone had heard if member adding on would be minimum of 25 or 50 pts?


A CM told me 50 pts minimum for existing DVC members.


----------



## nuhusky123

BWV Dreamin said:


> So I’d love to hear your reason for the lack of sales at Riviera?


Riv is too expensive for the current economic environment. I said this up thread Too. Increasing to $207 is going to slow down sales at riv even more. Dvc should really pause the price increase

i think gfv will have an initial influx of sales from people like us who are waiting just for gfv. Thereafter sales will drop like a rock

$207 is way too expensive for the avg Americans right now


----------



## HIRyeDVC

nuhusky123 said:


> Riv is too expensive for the current economic environment. I said this up thread Too. Increasing to $207 is going to slow down sales at riv even more. Dvc should really pause the price increase
> 
> i think gfv will have an initial influx of sales from people like us who are waiting just for gfv. Thereafter sales will drop like a rock
> 
> $207 is way too expensive for the avg Americans right now


I’d agree with you but given the recent trends of price increases on just about everything, I don’t think Disney is targeting the “average” Americans anymore?


----------



## nuhusky123

100% agree Disney seems to no longer care about the avg American. They do seem to be tracking wdw to be more upscale cost wise. I’m ok with that too if it means less people are in the park. 

id still maintain a price increase right now is not prudent regardless of their target demo. Inflation and russia won’t make buyers feel the warm and fuzzies to part with their cash. Add a price increase on top of that, I’d wager riv sales will drop by half come feb and March. That’s without gfv hitting the market which will further exacerbate the situation for riv


----------



## CaptainAmerica

Jwaire said:


> My curmudgeon take. Grand Floridian has lost some of its luster and they're having trouble filling the rooms. The shiny new Skyliner is pushing people to want to stay at Rivera/Art of Animation and enjoy quick access to TWO parks and their new IP attractions (hello Galaxy's Edge, Guardian's of the Galaxy, Ratatouille and Frozen). I don't think they care if they sell out Rivera anytime soon. What they're getting per night on the cash side is astonishing.
> 
> Disney also wants to cut costs because of housekeeping ($17 per hour starting pay) and rising maintenance expenses (GF was built in the 80's), so they're converting it to DVC.
> 
> They're going to have to move millions of points, and from what we've seen, this is going to be a fast turnaround (otherwise known as cheap flip). I think they'll price it very similar to Rivera and maybe even lower with bonuses, add-on and minimum incentives.
> 
> Edit: Nabas beat me to it!


Nobody is talking about the fact that resale restrictions nuke demand for Riviera among savvy buyers who understand that sort of thing. Set aside Skyliner versus Monorail and Resort Studio versus Tower Studio and Topolino's versus Citricos. It's clear even from cash pricing that Disney considers Riviera to be equivalent accomodations to the Grand. But as a deeded real estate product, those resale restrictions make it a fundamentally different contract.

If they hadn't implemented resale restrictions, I think they'd price the two resorts exactly the same. But pricing the same with restrictions in place will make it darn near impossible to sell Riv.


----------



## dvc lover 1970

We are not comparing apples to apples.  RIV has the resale restrictions while VGF will have 10 less years on its context.


----------



## Nabas

dvc lover 1970 said:


> We are not comparing apples to apples.  RIV has the resale restrictions while VGF will have 10 less years on its context.


I’ve often wondered about this but concluded that most (not all) buyers just don’t care where they are going to be vacationing 40 years from now.

And that most (not all) direct buyers buy DVC without thinking about selling it, meaning they don’t care about the resale restrictions because they don’t see it affecting them.

Essentially, most buyers ask themselves, “how is my purchase going to affect my life for the next few years?”  As a result, cost and a hotel’s amenities & location are important. Other factors, less so.


----------



## Marionnette

dvc lover 1970 said:


> We are not comparing apples to apples.  RIV has the resale restrictions while VGF will have 10 less years on its context.


It's actually 6 fewer years. VGF expires 2064. RIV expires 2070. For some people that 6-year difference is small when the trade off is fewer restrictions on resale points.


----------



## CaptainAmerica

Nabas said:


> As a result, cost and a hotel’s amenities are important. Other factors, less so.


That's why I raised the point about cash prices being comparable between the two.  It's clear to me that Disney, at least, regards them as roughly "equal" in terms of amenities.

I don't particularly like either resort, so it's hard for me to weigh them.  But as a thought experiment, if AKV Jambo was available with a 2070 expiration and resale restrictions, and AKV Kidani was available as a separate property with a 2064 expiration and no resale restrictions, I would pick AKV Kidani in a heartbeat.  I think you're generally correct that most buyers don't care about the restrictions *or* the expiration date, but of the two, I consider the restrictions to be a much bigger deal.  I might need or want to sell in 5-10 years, even though I'm not planning on it.  A 2064 expiration wouldn't come into play until I'm 75 years old.


----------



## nuhusky123

When I bought restrictions at riv absolutely played a role in my decision to not buy there And instead I bought at a resort that expires much earlier


----------



## Sandisw

CaptainAmerica said:


> Nobody is talking about the fact that resale restrictions nuke demand for Riviera among savvy buyers who understand that sort of thing. Set aside Skyliner versus Monorail and Resort Studio versus Tower Studio and Topolino's versus Citricos. It's clear even from cash pricing that Disney considers Riviera to be equivalent accomodations to the Grand. But as a deeded real estate product, those resale restrictions make it a fundamentally different contract.
> 
> If they hadn't implemented resale restrictions, I think they'd price the two resorts exactly the same. But pricing the same with restrictions in place will make it darn near impossible to sell Riv.



IMO, I am not sure new buyers really even understand or care as many don’t go in wanting to sell short term.

I think think the restrictions have depressed sales to current owners, especially those on here who understand resale exists.

But, once VGF starts selling, we will certainly be able to draw some conclusions once sales data comes in.


----------



## Sandisw

CaptainAmerica said:


> That's why I raised the point about cash prices being comparable between the two.  It's clear to me that Disney, at least, regards them as roughly "equal" in terms of amenities.
> 
> I don't particularly like either resort, so it's hard for me to weigh them.  But as a thought experiment, if AKV Jambo was available with a 2070 expiration and resale restrictions, and AKV Kidani was available as a separate property with a 2064 expiration and no resale restrictions, I would pick AKV Kidani in a heartbeat.  I think you're generally correct that most buyers don't care about the restrictions *or* the expiration date, but of the two, I consider the restrictions to be a much bigger deal.  I might need or want to sell in 5-10 years, even though I'm not planning on it.  A 2064 expiration wouldn't come into play until I'm 75 years old.



But would you pick a resort WITH resale restrictions if it wasn’t a place you want ti stay?

So, if AKV had them but RIV did not and you had to pick one if those, would you then choose RIV?

Same with VGF…if they had made it its own association with restrictions I bet people who really want points there would buy…I still would if price was right.

ETA. I also wonder if the reason they did make it the same association is to see if it gives them info about potentially moving away from that strategy?


----------



## CaptainAmerica

Sandisw said:


> But would you pick a resort without resale restrictions if it wasn’t a place you want ti stay?


I think VGF people and RIV people _tend_ to be the same people.

Heavily themed people: Boulder Ridge, Copper Creek, Animal Kingdom, Poly

Less heavily themed people: Bay Lake Tower, Beach Club, Boardwalk, Riviera, Grand Flo, Old Key West, Saratoga

Those are the two broad "cuts" as far as I see it.


----------



## nuhusky123

CaptainAmerica said:


> I think VGF people and RIV people _tend_ to be the same people.


Fancy people made me laugh


----------



## Sandisw

CaptainAmerica said:


> I think VGF people and RIV people _tend_ to be the same people.
> 
> Heavily themed people: Boulder Ridge, Copper Creek, Animal Kingdom, Poly
> 
> Less heavily themed people: Bay Lake Tower, Beach Club, Boardwalk, Riviera, Grand Flo, Old Key West, Saratoga
> 
> Those are the two broad "cuts" as far as I see it.



I meant to say with restrictions not without.  Your example was that you would choose an AKV contract without them over a AKV with them.

But, if AKV is your favorite and it had them, would you choose someplace like RIV that you don’t like to avoid them?


----------



## Lorana

CaptainAmerica said:


> I think VGF people and RIV people _tend_ to be the same people.
> 
> Heavily themed people: Boulder Ridge, Copper Creek, Animal Kingdom, Poly
> 
> Less heavily themed people: Bay Lake Tower, Beach Club, Boardwalk, Riviera, Grand Flo, Old Key West, Saratoga
> 
> Those are the two broad "cuts" as far as I see it.





nuhusky123 said:


> Fancy people made me laugh


LOL

We are definitely the “Heavily themed people“ category, and definitely not the “fancy people.”  Yet we DO own at RIV. This is partly because my husband did like the style of the rooms (in the promo pictures and videos) and we both decided we really wanted an EPCOT area resort…. But we were a little hesitant to purchase a 2042 that BWV and BCV at the current prices (though in hindsight I wish I had picked up 50pts at either one).  I was really afraid I wouldn’t like the resort, but I got to tour it last year and feel much better about it after seeing it, even though it’s not really the kind of resort we prefer. Next month we go for our first stay!  (Split stay; 2BR LO RIV for 4 nights; 2BR BRV for 5 nights).  So I guess I’ll know then how much I love it or not, lol.


----------



## CaptainAmerica

Sandisw said:


> I meant to say with restrictions not without.  Your example was that you would choose an AKV contract without them over a AKV with them.
> 
> But, if AKV is your favorite and it had them, would you choose someplace like RIV that you don’t like to avoid them?


If there were no AKV-type places available without restrictions, I'd probably skip DVC entirely.  I'd _absolutely_ skip Direct.



Lorana said:


> Yet we DO own at RIV.


You own everywhere.


----------



## zebsterama

CaptainAmerica said:


> Nobody is talking about the fact that resale restrictions nuke demand for Riviera among savvy buyers who understand that sort of thing. Set aside Skyliner versus Monorail and Resort Studio versus Tower Studio and Topolino's versus Citricos. It's clear even from cash pricing that Disney considers Riviera to be equivalent accomodations to the Grand. But as a deeded real estate product, those resale restrictions make it a fundamentally different contract.
> 
> If they hadn't implemented resale restrictions, I think they'd price the two resorts exactly the same. But pricing the same with restrictions in place will make it darn near impossible to sell Riv.



I would agree, as I'm living proof.

Our family has been (ok, let's be honest I've been   ) eyeing to join the DVC full fledged conglomerate after years of renting (feel like a bit of a fool ... in retrospect ). I really thought "Reflections" would be our in. When that went south, we seriously considered Riviera. To put things in perspective, we think the RIV resort is beautiful; we love the look and feel; we love the pool, we love the rooms; my wife is Italian - and the food / feel is exactly what she likes -- clean / simple / sophisticated / classic-but modern. I'll be honest not a huge fan of the view - but love the gondola's and proximity to HS and Epcot.

Why did we buy resale at GF in the summer of 2020? 
Two reasons ... #1) We Love GF ... rented/stayed there, and if we could only stay at GF year after year we would be ok with it ... but a huge factor was #2) resale restrictions. 

The reality is someday/someone may want/need to sell this DVC timeshare, and that can't be ignored IMO.

Furthermore, I'm one of those crazy people that really sees value in buying direct (let's just say it's a mental-perception issue I'm still trying to work out ); the fact that we are members, but in some ways NOT real members of DVC, kind-of irks me. That being said, buying GF direct at $225 or $255 a point vs. $170ish resale helped me overcome that problem (at least temporarily).

Anyhoo - to your point, if there were no resale restrictions at RIV, I'm almost certain we would have bought there.


----------



## zebsterama

dvc lover 1970 said:


> We are not comparing apples to apples.  RIV has the resale restrictions while VGF will have 10 less years on its context.



Fair point - I was making that apples to apples argument earlier.


----------



## jacec

Thoughts on this groups POV On a VGF1 resale contract now?  I am looking at final decision on a 250 point December UY contract that has  DEC21 351 pts, of which 101 are banked from DEC 2020 and full 250 2022 points available.  Seller wants $203pp

I currently own AUL & SSR direct contracts with Dec UY.

Really want to be able to book 2BR VGF for post Christmas which is hard to do at 7 months.


----------



## Sandisw

jacec said:


> Thoughts on this groups POV On a VGF1 resale contract now?  I am looking at final decision on a 250 point December UY contract that has  DEC21 351 pts, of which 101 are banked from DEC 2020 and full 250 2022 points available.  Seller wants $203pp
> 
> I currently own AUL & SSR direct contracts with Dec UY.
> 
> Really want to be able to book 2BR VGF for post Christmas which is hard to do at 7 months.



IMO..I would not pay that much for VGF resale until you know the price of VGF direct when sales start again.

If direct comes in under $220…then you may be able to get that contract for less.  Or go direct and get a better price. 

Most think we are just a few weeks away from finding out!!


----------



## HIRyeDVC

I agree that the resale restrictions have probably impacted Rivera sales. But I think thats ok with Disney because they’re in it for the long haul. In 20-40 years, every resale contract will be restricted as more new resorts get built. And I know this has been discussed a million times before but I can’t wait to see the reactions if Disney decides to have resale restrictions on VGF2. My popcorn bucket is ready!


----------



## Sandisw

HIRyeDVC said:


> I agree that the resale restrictions have probably impacted Rivera sales. But I think thats ok with Disney because they’re in it for the long haul. In 20-40 years, every resale contract will be restricted as more new resorts get built. And I know this has been discussed a million times before but I can’t wait to see the reactions if Disney decides to have resale restrictions on VGF2. My popcorn bucket is ready!



While I don’t think they can do that, if they try  it could only apply to the new points deeded to the new building.

I do not think they can go back and apply it to all VGF points as it would be a material change to the contract. I believe the POS requires voting of owners for that?


----------



## Jimmy Geppetto

HIRyeDVC said:


> And I know this has been discussed a million times before but I can’t wait to see the reactions if Disney decides to have resale restrictions on VGF2. My popcorn bucket is ready!



If we thought scrolling through 50+ pages was difficult on this board, we won't be able to keep up with the posts if that happens.  OMG could you imagine?


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

jacec said:


> Thoughts on this groups POV On a VGF1 resale contract now?  I am looking at final decision on a 250 point December UY contract that has  DEC21 351 pts, of which 101 are banked from DEC 2020 and full 250 2022 points available.  Seller wants $203pp
> 
> I currently own AUL & SSR direct contracts with Dec UY.
> 
> Really want to be able to book 2BR VGF for post Christmas which is hard to do at 7 months.


I think that contract won’t sell for much more than $160 once VGF2 goes on sale. It’s a big contract AND they want full direct pricing for it? No thanks.


----------



## tjkraz

There's no question that the resale restrictions have cost DVC sales from a certain type of informed buyer. The question is whether those same rules have allowed DVC to add sales in other areas. Specifically, has the ability to say "you cannot stay at all 15 resorts unless you buy direct from us" become a net positive for sales? 

There seems to be a perception that the direct purchase restriction is universally bad for sales. DVC doesn't benefit from enacting policies which blindly punish those who buy resale and drive down aftermarket values. Informed buyers are likely to be more sensitive to resale pricing. Relatively uneducated buyers who tour and consider buying while at WDW will only see value in the idea that a direct purchase is necessary to maximize program flexibility. 

*IF* the policy is working as intended, there are more people choosing to buy direct because of the resort access + perks than there are people who run scared from the impact on resale value. And if it's not returning the benefits intended, DVC can always change course.


----------



## jacec

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> I think that contract won’t sell for much more than $160 once VGF2 goes on sale. It’s a big contract AND they want full direct pricing for it? No thanks.



I appreciate all of this insight,  I'm going to wait.


----------



## HIRyeDVC

Sandisw said:


> While I don’t think they can do that, if they try  it could only apply to the new points deeded to the new building.
> 
> I do not think they can go back and apply it to all VGF points as it would be a material change to the contract. I believe the POS requires voting of owners for that?


I agree. Kinda similar to subsidized dues contracts at Aulani and those without. I think it’s easily possible to deed the new points with restrictions. Honestly, I think it would be in Disney’s best interest to do so. If they didn’t, it wouldn’t be fair for Riviera and would hurt sales there even more. And if the newer points have restrictions, the older VGF1 contracts will probably retain its high resale value.


----------



## Nabas

jacec said:


> Thoughts on this groups POV On a VGF1 resale contract now?  I am looking at final decision on a 250 point December UY contract that has  DEC21 351 pts, of which 101 are banked from DEC 2020 and full 250 2022 points available.  Seller wants $203pp
> 
> I currently own AUL & SSR direct contracts with Dec UY.
> 
> Really want to be able to book 2BR VGF for post Christmas which is hard to do at 7 months.


No, definitely no.

250 points is a larger than average contract, and $203pp is more than the current market even with 101 points from 2020.

We recently bought a smaller VGF1 resale contract with all of its 2020 and 2021 points for appreciably less than $203pp, with the seller paying 2020 and 2021 Maintenance Fees.

We then quickly rented out those 2020 and 2021 points (we didn’t need them) and dropped the net price of our purchase by another $40pp.

With all that we know today, I just can’t imagine VGF2 coming in above $220pp, and I think $207pp is increasingly likely.

Even without VGF2 coming soon, $203pp is (IMO) too much for a larger VGF contract.


----------



## 808blessing

CaptainAmerica said:


> I think VGF people and RIV people _tend_ to be the same people.
> 
> Heavily themed people: Boulder Ridge, Copper Creek, Animal Kingdom, Poly
> 
> Less heavily themed people: Bay Lake Tower, Beach Club, Boardwalk, Riviera, Grand Flo, Old Key West, Saratoga


To me, Boardwalk is heavily themed with the um Boardwalk. Funky fancy!


----------



## jacec

Nabas said:


> No, definitely no.
> 
> 250 points is a larger than average contract, and $203pp is more than the current market even with 101 points from 2020.
> 
> We recently bought a smaller VGF1 resale contract with all of its 2020 and 2021 points for appreciably less than $203pp, with the seller paying 2020 and 2021 Maintenance Fees.
> 
> We then quickly rented out those 2020 and 2021 points (we didn’t need them) and dropped the net price of our purchase by another $40pp.
> 
> With all that we know today, I just can’t imagine VGF2 coming in above $220pp, and I think $207pp is increasingly likely.
> 
> Even without VGF2 coming soon, $203pp is (IMO) too much for a larger VGF contract.



Thank you

I'm so happy to have this community to take the emotion out of these back and forth. 
You have all talked some sense into my patience. 


We're in our first full year of ownership and learned quickly the importance of your home resort.  We know after a couple WDW stays that VGF is where we want to be with having younger kids and close to MK.   We also knew right away after going to AUL that we'd go every summer. Took advantage of the big direct discount in November to buy there.   Now I just need to move my SSR contract and get a couple contracts at VGF to handle our Spring Break and post Christmas vacations


----------



## zebsterama

HIRyeDVC said:


> I agree that the resale restrictions have probably impacted Rivera sales. But I think thats ok with Disney because they’re in it for the long haul. In 20-40 years, every resale contract will be restricted as more new resorts get built. *And I know this has been discussed a million times before but I can’t wait to see the reactions if Disney decides to have resale restrictions on VGF2. *My popcorn bucket is ready!



I'm definitely one of those persons that would be both torn and freaking out.


----------



## Lunchbox66

tjkraz said:


> There's no question that the resale restrictions have cost DVC sales from a certain type of informed buyer. The question is whether those same rules have allowed DVC to add sales in other areas. Specifically, has the ability to say "you cannot stay at all 15 resorts unless you buy direct from us" become a net positive for sales?
> 
> There seems to be a perception that the direct purchase restriction is universally bad for sales. DVC doesn't benefit from enacting policies which blindly punish those who buy resale and drive down aftermarket values. Informed buyers are likely to be more sensitive to resale pricing. Relatively uneducated buyers who tour and consider buying while at WDW will only see value in the idea that a direct purchase is necessary to maximize program flexibility.
> 
> *IF* the policy is working as intended, there are more people choosing to buy direct because of the resort access + perks than there are people who run scared from the impact on resale value. And if it's not returning the benefits intended, DVC can always change course.




I would have most likely bought resale instead of direct if not for the new restrictions. So they got me.


----------



## jacec

Lunchbox66 said:


> I would have most likely bought resale instead of direct if not for the new restrictions. So they got me.



They got me too ,  one of the main reasons we picked up AUL in November during the major incentives.  Can use for AUL or RIV ...


----------



## CaptainAmerica

HIRyeDVC said:


> And I know this has been discussed a million times before but I can’t wait to see the reactions if Disney decides to have resale restrictions on VGF2. My popcorn bucket is ready!


They almost certainly can't do that.


----------



## HIRyeDVC

CaptainAmerica said:


> They almost certainly can't do that.


Almost certainly?


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

jacec said:


> Thoughts on this groups POV On a VGF1 resale contract now?  I am looking at final decision on a 250 point December UY contract that has  DEC21 351 pts, of which 101 are banked from DEC 2020 and full 250 2022 points available.  Seller wants $203pp
> 
> I currently own AUL & SSR direct contracts with Dec UY.
> 
> Really want to be able to book 2BR VGF for post Christmas which is hard to do at 7 months.



People are purchasing VGF resale, smaller contracts than that, for less per point.  It is too high IMO.  Have you looked at the ROFR thread where people post what they are currently under contract for or recently closed on?  Look thru there.  And it's not crazy to offer much less per point.  They may say no but they may say yes.


----------



## CaptainAmerica

HIRyeDVC said:


> Almost certainly?


I'm not an attorney, but the lawyers around here seem to have ruled it out from a contractual perspective, but I would just add that Disney is remarkably poor at tech infrastructure.  Even if they 100% legally were permitted to do this, I don't think they could figure out how to manage it logistically.


----------



## Paul Stupin

nuhusky123 said:


> Riv is too expensive for the current economic environment. I said this up thread Too. Increasing to $207 is going to slow down sales at riv even more. Dvc should really pause the price increase
> 
> i think gfv will have an initial influx of sales from people like us who are waiting just for gfv. Thereafter sales will drop like a rock
> 
> $207 is way too expensive for the avg Americans right now


I think you’re right about all this. So many people on these boards look at the possible direct VGF price of $207 as surprisingly inexpensive because they were expecting higher, but it’s not cheap at all, especially with a 150 point minimum purchase for new buyers. And 150 points won’t get you very far even if you want studios, so I think the worry about losing one and two bedroom availability might be a bit unfounded.

Add to that inflation, Russia and current stock market/economy issues, which affect everyone one way or another, and suddenly that $207 price starts to look too high.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

CaptainAmerica said:


> I'm not an attorney, but the lawyers around here seem to have ruled it out from a contractual perspective, but I would just add that Disney is remarkably poor at tech infrastructure.  Even if they 100% legally were permitted to do this, I don't think they could figure out how to manage it logistically.



It doesn't meant they wouldn't think they could manage it just fine and give a shrug of the shoulders if there were issues for owners.  

However, unless the State of FL really lets them make up their own rules (and RIV inclusion makes me question if they do) then it can't become part of the current association AND have it's own set of rules.


----------



## RebelScum

Lunchbox66 said:


> I would have most likely bought resale instead of direct if not for the new restrictions. So they got me.


They got me too!


----------



## CaptainAmerica

Lunchbox66 said:


> I would have most likely bought resale instead of direct if not for the new restrictions. So they got me.





RebelScum said:


> They got me too!


But where did you buy direct?

I can understand "I want to be able to stay at Riviera at some point, so I'm going to buy Grand/Saratoga/Boardwalk direct instead of resale."  But I don't understand "I want to be able to stay at Riviera at some point, so I'm going to buy _Riviera_ direct instead of resale" if you're concerned about restrictions, because you're backing yourself into those restrictions.

*Most Restrictive*
Riviera resale
Riviera direct
O14 resale
O14 direct
*Least Restrictive*


----------



## HIRyeDVC

CaptainAmerica said:


> I'm not an attorney, but the lawyers around here seem to have ruled it out from a contractual perspective, but I would just add that Disney is remarkably poor at tech infrastructure.  Even if they 100% legally were permitted to do this, I don't think they could figure out how to manage it logistically.


Disney IT is ALREADY a mess. Adding this wrench won’t make a difference. My guess is VGF2 will be under the same association in terms of dues and admin. But they will be deeded differently and will have resale restrictions, leading VGF1 resale contracts to become more valuable than VGF2, kinda like how Aulani subsidized is more valuable then the rest. That’s my final answer and I’m sticking to it! Can’t wait to see what happens!


----------



## Lunchbox66

CaptainAmerica said:


> But where did you buy direct?
> 
> I can understand "I want to be able to stay at Riviera at some point, so I'm going to buy Grand/Saratoga/Boardwalk direct instead of resale."  But I don't understand "I want to be able to stay at Riviera at some point, so I'm going to buy _Riviera_ direct instead of resale" if you're concerned about restrictions, because you're backing yourself into those restrictions.
> 
> *Most Restrictive*
> Riviera resale
> Riviera direct
> O14 resale
> O14 direct
> *Least Restrictive*



We wanted RIV for our home resort but also not have those points restricted from future resorts. We are younger and so life expentency takes us past 2070, hopefully. I would not buy a 2042 resort for that reason alone due to my circumatances


----------



## CaptainAmerica

Lunchbox66 said:


> We wanted RIV for our home resort but also not have those points restricted from future resorts. We are younger and so life expentency takes us past 2070, hopefully. I would not buy a 2042 resort for that reason alone due to my circumatances


Right of course.  If you like Riviera, buy at Riviera.  My point was more for people who either don't like or are neutral on Riviera and just want to get into the club to use their points at various places.  For those people, I don't think the case for Riviera direct over O14 resale is compelling.


----------



## Lunchbox66

CaptainAmerica said:


> Right of course.  If you like Riviera, buy at Riviera.  My point was more for people who either don't like or are neutral on Riviera and just want to get into the club to use their points at various places.  For those people, I don't think the case for Riviera direct over O14 resale is compelling.



I agree RIV is not the most econimically sound way to get into DVC. My interests and decision making are usually the exceptions to the rule.


----------



## nuhusky123

Paul Stupin said:


> I think you’re right about all this. So many people on these boards look at the possible direct VGF price of $207 as surprisingly inexpensive because they were expecting higher, but it’s not cheap at all, especially with a 150 point minimum purchase for new buyers. And 150 points won’t get you very far even if you want studios, so I think the worry about losing one and two bedroom availability might be a bit unfounded.
> 
> Add to that inflation, Russia and current stock market/economy issues, which affect everyone one way or another, and suddenly that $207 price starts to look too high.


Exactly. We forget at $207 and 150 point minimum that’s $31,000 investment.

how many people can afford this? Median household income in the us is $67,000. A buy into dvc is half of your annual household income, that’s truly insane. How comfortable would anyone on this board be spending half your annual household income to buy dvc?

now let’s add in supply shortage for things like cars, so let’s say you have been putting off other big expenses like a car. Do you buy a car or dvc, both cost the same $


----------



## HIRyeDVC

nuhusky123 said:


> Exactly. We forget at $207 and 150 point minimum that’s $31,000 investment.
> 
> how many people can afford this? Median household income in the us is $67,000. A buy into dvc is half of your annual household income, that’s truly insane. How comfortable would anyone on this board be spending half your annual household income to buy dvc?
> 
> now let’s add in supply shortage for things like cars, so let’s say you have been putting off other big expenses like a car. Do you buy a car or dvc, both cost the same $


Most people can’t buy any big ticket items by their income level. It’s done through financing, which I’m sure many DVC buyers used to buy Riviera.


----------



## dvc lover 1970

HIRyeDVC said:


> Most people can’t buy any big ticket items by their income level. It’s done through financing, which I’m sure many DVC buyers used to buy Riviera.


Agree and when the economy crashes which it will at some point any contracts will be substantially cheaper resale across all resorts.


----------



## Paul Stupin

HIRyeDVC said:


> Most people can’t buy any big ticket items by their income level. It’s done through financing, which I’m sure many DVC buyers used to buy Riviera.


Sure, but 31k is still 31k no matter how you pay for it, and the payments are still a hit to a monthly budget.


----------



## HIRyeDVC

dvc lover 1970 said:


> Agree and when the economy crashes which it will at some point any contracts will be substantially cheaper resale across all resorts.


I don’t think the economy will crash


----------



## HIRyeDVC

Paul Stupin said:


> Sure, but 31k is still 31k no matter how you pay for it, and the payments are still a hit to a monthly budget.


I’m not saying it’s smart. Just saying that’s what people do.


----------



## nuhusky123

HIRyeDVC said:


> I don’t think the economy will crash


Unless there is a black swan event I agree, we are in a correction

but as per Paul, $31k is $31k whether you buy outright or finance. The point being $31k to most households is a ridiculous amount of money. Again to the avg us household $31k is 50% of their annual income


----------



## HIRyeDVC

nuhusky123 said:


> Unless there is a black swan event I agree, we are in a correction
> 
> but as per Paul, $31k is $31k whether you buy outright or finance. The point being $31k to most households is a ridiculous amount of money. Again to the avg us household $31k is 50% of their annual income


Yes. A correction is different from a crash. And I think Disney is no longer targeting “average” Americans as evidenced by all the price increases. There are a lot of young households out there with lots of money or enough to swing it through financing.


----------



## CaptainAmerica

nuhusky123 said:


> Unless there is a black swan event I agree, we are in a correction
> 
> but as per Paul, $31k is $31k whether you buy outright or finance. The point being $31k to most households is a ridiculous amount of money. Again to the avg us household $31k is 50% of their annual income


"The average household" doesn't stay in $500+ hotel rooms for a week every single year.



HIRyeDVC said:


> And I think Disney is no longer targeting “average” Americans as evidenced by all the price increases.


They never were.


----------



## Paul Stupin

HIRyeDVC said:


> I don’t think the economy will crash


I don’t think it will either, but current inflation and economic issues in my opinion  will not help sales of VGF2. All the more reason to offer generous incentives on top of the $207 starting price.
Let’s also not forget that direct sales are still languishing. Sure VGF is a flagship property, but with the current diminished demand, I don’t think it will sell if it’s not priced well.


----------



## CaptainAmerica

Paul Stupin said:


> I don’t think it will either, but current inflation and economic issues in my opinion  will not help sales of VGF2. All the more reason to offer generous incentives on top of the $207 starting price.


Inflation helps the sorts of people who buy DVC.  Many professional-class employees got a lot more than their normal 3% raises last year, and likely will again next year.  Groceries are more expensive, but these households don't spend a large percentage of their salaries on groceries to begin with.  Their mortgages haven't gotten any more expensive, and in real-dollar terms have gotten cheaper.



Paul Stupin said:


> Let’s also not forget that direct sales are still languishing. Sure VGF is a flagship property, but with the current diminished demand, I don’t think it will sell if it’s not priced well.


The great mystery, which will soon be answered, is whether there's diminished demand for DVC generally, or Riviera in particular.


----------



## nuhusky123

To shift topics slightly. What day of the week would dvc want to start sales/annouce?


----------



## smmora

HIRyeDVC said:


> I don’t think the economy will crash


My stock accounts are down 25k from Jan 1st


----------



## Paul Stupin

CaptainAmerica said:


> "The average household" doesn't stay in $500+ hotel rooms for a week every single year.
> 
> 
> They never were.


As I’ve mentioned earlier, higher income buyers are also savvy buyers. They’re not going to write a blank check for VGF2 either. They’re also more aware of stock market fluctuations which can diminish net worth.


----------



## Sandisw

CaptainAmerica said:


> I'm not an attorney, but the lawyers around here seem to have ruled it out from a contractual perspective, but I would just add that Disney is remarkably poor at tech infrastructure.  Even if they 100% legally were permitted to do this, I don't think they could figure out how to manage it logistically.



I don’t think they can do it, but I don’t think it would be hard at all to manage as DVD itself wouldn’t be the one doing it.

People would have to sell VGF as restricted and unrestricted.  As long as they have the VGF2 points to sell, then it’s easy as they don’t sell the ones deeded to the new building anymore and keep those for their own use.

Again, it makes little sense to try because it would create a challenge from owners…if that was their plan, they would have made the new association which would have kept it easy and simple. The fact they didn’t leads one to believe it’s not going to happen.


----------



## Paul Stupin

CaptainAmerica said:


> Inflation helps the sorts of people who buy DVC.  Many professional-class employees got a lot more than their normal 3% raises last year, and likely will again next year.  Groceries are more expensive, but these households don't spend a large percentage of their salaries on groceries to begin with.  Their mortgages haven't gotten any more expensive, and in real-dollar terms have gotten cheaper.
> 
> 
> The great mystery, which will soon be answered, is whether there's diminished demand for DVC generally, or Riviera in particular.


On a macro level, a high leve of inflation will not be a positive for VGF sales.


----------



## HIRyeDVC

smmora said:


> My stock accounts are down 25k from Jan 1st


Yes, the DOW is down about 2k since December. But overall, it’s up about 5k since this time last year. A correction is not the same as a “crash”


----------



## hhisc16

smmora said:


> My stock accounts are down 25k from Jan 1st


DIS stock has plummeted...
this may have an impact on DVC sales.


----------



## nuhusky123

If Russia invades the Ukraine we may have our black swan event. Fuel prices for both cars and homes will go up exponentially. The eu market gets most of their fuel from Russia and would be especially hard hit which will have knock on impacts in the USA.

markets will be flooded with sales orders and I’d say the economy will be in for a bear market especially as Russian sanction compound the fuel concerns


----------



## Sandisw

Let’s not get into a discussion about inflation and other topics on their own but stick to the pricing of VGF!


----------



## HIRyeDVC

CaptainAmerica said:


> "The average household" doesn't stay in $500+ hotel rooms for a week every single year.
> 
> 
> They never were.


Thats what I mean! I don’t know why people think Disney has some moral obligation to price DVC to the “average” American household. It’s a luxury product, situated at Disney’s most DELUXE properties. Disney will price it approximately for the right demand. If they didn’t, DVC would be overrun.


----------



## CaptainAmerica

nuhusky123 said:


> If Russia invades the Ukraine we may have our black swan event. Fuel prices for both cars and homes will go up exponentially. The eu market gets most of their fuel from Russia and would be especially hard hit which will have knock on impacts in the USA.
> 
> markets will be flooded with sales orders and I’d say the economy will be in for a bear market especially as Russian sanction compound the fuel concerns


┏┓
┃┃╱╲ in
┃╱╱╲╲ this
╱╱╭╮╲╲house
▔▏┗┛▕▔ we
╱▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔╲
╱╱┏┳┓╭╮┏┳┓ ╲╲
▔▏┗┻┛┃┃┗┻┛▕▔ 

(•_•)
<) )╯ buy
/ \
(•_•)
\( (> the
/ \
(•_•)
<) )╯ dip!
/ \ 

That's a meme-on-a-meme for the kids in the back.  Meme-ception if you will.


----------



## CaptainAmerica

Sandisw said:


> Let’s not get into a discussion about inflation and other topics on their own but stick to the pricing of VGF!


----------



## HIRyeDVC

CaptainAmerica said:


> ┏┓
> ┃┃╱╲ in
> ┃╱╱╲╲ this
> ╱╱╭╮╲╲house
> ▔▏┗┛▕▔ we
> ╱▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔▔╲
> ╱╱┏┳┓╭╮┏┳┓ ╲╲
> ▔▏┗┻┛┃┃┗┻┛▕▔
> 
> (•_•)
> <) )╯ buy
> / \
> (•_•)
> \( (> the
> / \
> (•_•)
> <) )╯ dip!
> / \
> 
> That's a meme-on-a-meme for the kids in the back.  Meme-ception if you will.


How long did it take you to type that?! Impressive. And yes, I bought the dip yesterday.


----------



## Wedgeout

Your Addonitis fogs reality so none this other stuff matters. Release the Price!


----------



## nuhusky123

Price aside, if gfv2 is successful I’d expect more hotel room conversions in the future vs new resorts

yc being one I hope for


----------



## Lunchbox66

HIRyeDVC said:


> Yes. A correction is different from a crash. And I think Disney is no longer targeting “average” Americans as evidenced by all the price increases. There are a lot of young households out there with lots of money or enough to swing it through financing.



I agree with not targeting "average" Americans as much. On a podcast I was listening to the point was made that Disney may benefit more from targeting upper level income individuals. If you get one family that pays cash for a deluxe room (especially larger than a studio), eats at table service and fine dining, and buys a lot of souveniers they could pay more than 3 very budgeted families while reducing crowd sizes.


----------



## jacec

KAT4DISNEY said:


> People are purchasing VGF resale, smaller contracts than that, for less per point.  It is too high IMO.  Have you looked at the ROFR thread where people post what they are currently under contract for or recently closed on?  Look thru there.  And it's not crazy to offer much less per point.  They may say no but they may say yes.



Thanks agree. 

This seller is valuing the banked points too high. 
Going hold and see what the Mouse has instore for direct points,  and what the new inventory may do to resale.  I'm not in a hurry.  Either way ,  I'm going to have try my luck at this point for the 7 month window to attempt New Years 2023 rez at VGF.


----------



## Lorana

zebsterama said:


> I really thought "Reflections" would be our in.


I'm with you there, at least from the perspective that I was chomping at the bit to buy there.  I'm still not over the fact that it's cancelled.  Bring back Reflections!


----------



## Lorana

CaptainAmerica said:


> You own everywhere.



Ha ha ha!  Not yet!  But we DO own at EVERY "heavily themed" resort you mentioned.  And of the two not-heavily-themed, we own RIV for Epcot/HS access and SSR for SAP... and the "heavily themed" aspect of the Treehouse Villas.  ;-)


----------



## nuhusky123

Lorana said:


> I'm with you there, at least from the perspective that I was chomping at the bit to buy there.  I'm still not over the fact that it's cancelled.  Bring back Reflections!


I think the standalone new resort model is on the back burner unfortunately. Expect more hotel conversions


----------



## Nabas

nuhusky123 said:


> I think the standalone new resort model is on the back burner unfortunately. Expect more hotel conversions


I expect Disney will add 2 to 4 more DVC resorts between about 2026 to 2038.

If they have a new DVC opening in about 2038, they should be able to milk that out until 2042, when Disney starts re-acquiring points from OKW, VB, HHI, and BWV.

After that, I just don’t see Disney building new DVC resorts since they’ll have a steady and predictable stream of points at existing resorts that they will be able to sell again.

Relating this back to VGF2, VGF2 and RIV should give DVD enough points to sell for several years, maybe 2026 or 2027?  So it would surprising if DVD opens another DVC resort before then.


----------



## HIRyeDVC

Nabas said:


> I expect Disney will add 2 to 4 more DVC resorts between about 2026 to 2038.
> 
> If they have a new DVC opening in about 2038, they should be able to milk that out until 2042, when Disney starts re-acquiring points from OKW, VB, HHI, and BWV.
> 
> After that, I just don’t see Disney building new DVC resorts since they’ll have a steady and predictable stream of points at existing resorts that they will be able to sell again.
> 
> Relating this back to VGF2, VGF2 and RIV should give DVD enough points to sell for several years, maybe 2026 or 2027?  So it would surprising if DVD opens another DVC resort before then.


Don’t forget about BCV and DLT!


----------



## nuhusky123

Nabas said:


> I expect Disney will add 2 to 4 more DVC resorts between about 2026 to 2038.
> 
> If they have a new DVC opening in about 2038, they should be able to milk that out until 2042, when Disney starts re-acquiring points from OKW, VB, HHI, and BWV.
> 
> After that, I just don’t see Disney building new DVC resorts since they’ll have a steady and predictable stream of points at existing resorts that they will be able to sell again.
> 
> Relating this back to VGF2, VGF2 and RIV should give DVD enough points to sell for several years, maybe 2026 or 2027?  So it would surprising if DVD opens another DVC resort before then.


Question is will the build new buildings or convert hotels, I think the next one at the very least will be another hotel conversion


----------



## RamblinWreck

nuhusky123 said:


> Price aside, if gfv2 is successful I’d expect more hotel room conversions in the future vs new resorts
> 
> yc being one I hope for


At some point they have to stop, right?

Once all those 2040 contracts end they’re going to have a ton of inventory to try to move.


----------



## rubybutt

jacec said:


> Thoughts on this groups POV On a VGF1 resale contract now?  I am looking at final decision on a 250 point December UY contract that has  DEC21 351 pts, of which 101 are banked from DEC 2020 and full 250 2022 points available.  Seller wants $203pp
> 
> I currently own AUL & SSR direct contracts with Dec UY.
> 
> Really want to be able to book 2BR VGF for post Christmas which is hard to do at 7 months.


wait.  Anything over 160 pp, especially a large contract would be foolish to buy resale right now.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

RamblinWreck said:


> At some point they have to stop, right?
> 
> Once all those 2040 contracts end they’re going to have a ton of inventory to try to move.


Why would they stop?

It’s not that many points. They’re probably gonna sell Hilton and Vero; Boulder Ridge and Beach Club are small (I imagine Beach Club Villas will be torn down and they will do something a little different over there), and Old Key West they’re stuck with until 2057 so  they will be figuring out ways to mitigate that point glut ahead of time.

Boardwalk is the big one. Are they going to tack another 50 years onto that things life? It’s an interesting question.


----------



## nuhusky123

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> Why would they stop?
> 
> It’s not that many points. They’re probably gonna sell Hilton and Vero; Boulder Ridge and Beach Club are small (I imagine Beach Club Villas will be torn down and they will do something a little different over there), and Old Key West they’re stuck with until 2057 so  they will be figuring out ways to mitigate that point glut ahead of time.
> 
> Boardwalk is the big one. Are they going to tack another 50 years onto that things life? It’s an interesting question.


Why would they tear down beach club?


----------



## RamblinWreck

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> Why would they stop?
> 
> It’s not that many points. They’re probably gonna sell Hilton and Vero; Boulder Ridge and Beach Club are small (I imagine Beach Club Villas will be torn down and they will do something a little different over there), and Old Key West they’re stuck with until 2057 so  they will be figuring out ways to mitigate that point glut ahead of time.
> 
> Boardwalk is the big one. Are they going to tack another 50 years onto that things life? It’s an interesting question.


Why wouldn’t they? Just update the thing and sell it all over again.


----------



## HIRyeDVC

nuhusky123 said:


> Why would they tear down beach club?


I don't think they will tear down BCV. It's such a tiny wing, it will either get absorbed with the cash side or they'll renovate it and resell new 50 year contracts.


----------



## DisneyMom_3

nuhusky123 said:


> Price aside, if gfv2 is successful I’d expect more hotel room conversions in the future vs new resorts
> 
> yc being one I hope for


I would love YC to be next!


----------



## rubybutt

CaptainAmerica said:


> But where did you buy direct?
> 
> I can understand "I want to be able to stay at Riviera at some point, so I'm going to buy Grand/Saratoga/Boardwalk direct instead of resale."  But I don't understand "I want to be able to stay at Riviera at some point, so I'm going to buy _Riviera_ direct instead of resale" if you're concerned about restrictions, because you're backing yourself into those restrictions.
> 
> *Most Restrictive*
> Riviera resale
> Riviera direct
> O14 resale
> O14 direct
> *Least Restrictive*


This makes no sense.  All direct are least restrictive.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

nuhusky123 said:


> Why would they tear down beach club?



They took almost 40 year old Poly buildings and refurbed and sold them for another 50 years.   And the Pine Key building must be at wind 30 years old?   Getting refurbed and sold for another 42 years which is approx what BCV will have on it when it expires.


----------



## CaptainAmerica

nuhusky123 said:


> Why would they tear down beach club?


Everyone keeps saying stuff like this, so much that there seems to be a consensus that they're going to "tear down and gut" all of the 2042 resorts when those contracts expire.  They didn't tear down the Contemporary in 2021 so I'm not sure why they would tear down Beach Club in 2042.


----------



## CaptainAmerica

rubybutt said:


> This makes no sense.  All direct are least restrictive.


Riviera direct leaves you pigeon-holed on the back end.


----------



## kanerf

I have always liked the atmosphere and theming  at Port Orleans.  I think that theme would make for a good DVC.


----------



## rubybutt

jacec said:


> Thanks agree.
> 
> This seller is valuing the banked points too high.
> Going hold and see what the Mouse has instore for direct points,  and what the new inventory may do to resale.  I'm not in a hurry.  Either way ,  I'm going to have try my luck at this point for the 7 month window to attempt New Years 2023 rez at VGF.


Go ahead and get a cash room.  You can always cancel.  And if you decide to buy direct have them transfer it to points.


----------



## nuhusky123

kanerf said:


> I have always liked the atmosphere and theming  at Port Orleans.  I think that theme would make for a good DVC.


An expansion of dvc into moderates would intro potentially cheaper buy in costs


----------



## nuhusky123

CaptainAmerica said:


> Everyone keeps saying stuff like this, so much that there seems to be a consensus that they're going to "tear down and gut" all of the 2042 resorts when those contracts expire.  They didn't tear down the Contemporary in 2021 so I'm not sure why they would tear down Beach Club in 2042.


Right it seems odd to tear down the building. Refurbish the rooms and resell the points like pine key and make a great profit


----------



## rubybutt

RamblinWreck said:


> At some point they have to stop, right?
> 
> Once all those 2040 contracts end they’re going to have a ton of inventory to try to move.


Not to mention at some point they will have more rooms then space available in parks.  Will Disney not allow outside stays to get tickets at some point?  That would be devious.


----------



## HIRyeDVC

DisneyMom_3 said:


> I would love YC to be next!


I think a lot of people would love this. Unfortunately, this only applies to resorts that have struggled to sell their cash rooms, i.e., a portion of WL to CCV, VGF2, etc. I think BCV and YC are probably doing just fine selling their cash rooms. I wish Grand Cal would reallocate another wing for DVC, but it's never going to happen because the demand for the cash rooms are sky high.


----------



## HIRyeDVC

rubybutt said:


> Not to mention at some point they will have more rooms then space available in parks.  Will Disney not allow outside stays to get tickets at some point?  That would be devious.


I see what you're saying, but technically, the parks division could care less if there are too many rooms being created by DVD.  They're totally separate divisions and from DVD's perspective, all they're obligated to provide are accomodations.


----------



## Paul Stupin

If DLT sells well, couldn’t they try something similar at beach club down the line?  Tear down the wing, and find a way to add a tower with a relatively small footprint, with access to the great pool, that they wouldn’t need to build because it’s already there and everyone loves it?
Or build the tower with its own stormalong bay, and we’d all buy in! There would still be alot of love for BCV but they’d have more rooms to sell.


----------



## nuhusky123

Probably means nothing and I’m reading into things too much but the gfv video on dvc site main page saying coming soon is now replaced with riv image and video

or….

video is down because sales starting very soon and new banner going up


----------



## CaptainAmerica

Paul Stupin said:


> If DLT sells well, couldn’t they try something similar at beach club down the line?  Tear down the wing, and find a way to add a tower with a relatively small footprint, with access to the great pool, that they wouldn’t need to build because it’s already there and everyone loves it?
> Or build the tower with its own stormalong bay, and we’d all buy in! There would still be alot of love for BCV but they’d have more rooms to sell.


SAB has a hard enough time absorbing crowds as it is, I don't think increasing the guest count of people using that pool would be viable.


----------



## Sandisw

nuhusky123 said:


> Probably means nothing and I’m reading into things too much but the gfv video on dvc site main page saying coming soon is now replaced with riv image and video
> 
> or….
> 
> video is down because sales starting very soon and new banner going up



 Just checked and VGF is still there for me.


----------



## nuhusky123

Sandisw said:


> Just checked and VGF is still there for me.


Interesting. I only see riv


----------



## Paul Stupin

CaptainAmerica said:


> SAB has a hard enough time absorbing crowds as it is, I don't think increasing the guest count of people using that pool would be viable.


If they put a small footprint tower there, then maybe they could add another fun pool with SAB elements, or a lazy river. I think it would be immensely popular, and enable DVC to monetize the BCV goodwill at an entirely different level.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

nuhusky123 said:


> Interesting. I only see riv



No VGF for you!    

(I also still see the new VGF coming)


----------



## nuhusky123

KAT4DISNEY said:


> No VGF for you!
> 
> (I also still see the new VGF coming)


Yup I’m on the naughty list


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

Paul Stupin said:


> If they put a small footprint tower there, then maybe they could add another fun pool with SAB elements, or a lazy river. I think it would be immensely popular, and enable DVC to monetize the BCV goodwill at an entirely different level.



Unless Disney decides to close their water parks their pretty unlikely to do anything that is close to SAB again.


----------



## Nabas

DisneyMom_3 said:


> I would love YC to be next!





HIRyeDVC said:


> I think a lot of people would love this. Unfortunately, this only applies to resorts that have struggled to sell their cash rooms, i.e., a portion of WL to CCV, VGF2, etc. I think BCV and YC are probably doing just fine selling their cash rooms. I wish Grand Cal would reallocate another wing for DVC, but it's never going to happen because the demand for the cash rooms are sky high.


YC would be great but there's no room to construct a new building, even one as small as BCV.  In addition, YC doesn't have a lot of rooms.  As you note, with the convention center connected to the YC and close location to Epcot, Disney usually fills the Y&BC.

After the Big Pine Key conversion, here's the room count at the Deluxe Resorts:

Boardwalk Inn = 372 rooms
Wilderness Lodge = 430 rooms
Polynesian = 479 rooms
Beach Club = 583 rooms
Yacht Club = 621 rooms
Contemporary = 655 rooms
Grand Floridian = 668 rooms
Animal Kingdom Lodge = 943 rooms
By far, AKL is the largest Deluxe Resort.  There are 343 rooms (nearly all Studios) on the 4th floor at AKL.  With the 5th & 6th floors already DVC, the most obvious thing to do is convert the 4th floor to DVC.  The issue with those is that the contract ends in 2057.

Another option is to convert the remaining Boardwalk Inn into DVC.  Like Wilderness Lodge, these could be treated differently than BWV, especially since it's physically separate from the existing BWV.  (Similar to how BRV and CCV are different DVC resorts.) The issue here is that the Boardwalk has a smallish conference center, and Disney likes to have a ready supply of nearby rooms available for this.


----------



## Nabas

nuhusky123 said:


> Probably means nothing and I’m reading into things too much but the gfv video on dvc site main page saying coming soon is now replaced with riv image and video
> 
> or….
> 
> video is down because sales starting very soon and new banner going up


I also see RIV now.


----------



## nuhusky123

I wonder what Disney’s contract is with the owners of swan and dolphin. That property is such a wonderful spot of land

I’d assume Disney has rofr on that land and it would make the perfect dvc complex


----------



## nuhusky123

Nabas said:


> I also see RIV now.


So not just me


----------



## HIRyeDVC

Nabas said:


> After the Big Pine Key conversion, here's the room count at the Deluxe Resorts:
> 
> Boardwalk Inn = 372 rooms
> Wilderness Lodge = 430 rooms
> Polynesian = 479 rooms
> Beach Club = 583 rooms
> Yacht Club = 621 rooms
> Contemporary = 655 rooms
> Grand Floridian = 668 rooms
> Animal Kingdom Lodge = 943 rooms


Interesting. Where'd you get these numbers from?


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

nuhusky123 said:


> Why would they tear down beach club?


Just a guess. Not the whole resort, but the Villas building. I think they could do better and I think _they know_ they could do better.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

RamblinWreck said:


> Why wouldn’t they? Just update the thing and sell it all over again.


It’s the highest value real estate at WDW. Walking distance to 2 parks. Maybe they’ll just reboot it! I wouldn’t be surprised if they use the space differently.

I certainly expect a different theme next go around.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

nuhusky123 said:


> I wonder what Disney’s contract is with the owners of swan and dolphin. That property is such a wonderful spot of land
> 
> I’d assume Disney has rofr on that land and it would make the perfect dvc complex


Disney owns the land. They lease it to a company that operates the Marriott properties. When it was announced in the mid 80s it was termed a 99 year lease. While that may have been renegotiated since, that would put the expiration of the lease in roughly 2085.


----------



## TCRAIG

CaptainAmerica said:


> Everyone keeps saying stuff like this, so much that there seems to be a consensus that they're going to "tear down and gut" all of the 2042 resorts when those contracts expire.  They didn't tear down the Contemporary in 2021 so I'm not sure why they would tear down Beach Club in 2042.


Only reason I can see that DVC would do more than just a big refurb at BCV - since the building is so small - they might want to significantly increase the # of rooms and that may be easier to accomplish if they start from scratch rather than add floors or annexes to the existing structure - but I think they’ll just update and redo the points charts…


----------



## Nabas

HIRyeDVC said:


> Interesting. Where'd you get these numbers from?


touringplans.com.  They have room maps of all the resorts.


----------



## DisDad-

Fr


nuhusky123 said:


> Price aside, if gfv2 is successful I’d expect more hotel room conversions in the future vs new resorts
> 
> yc being one I hope for



From your post to Gods ears. I’d be all for the Yacht Club conversion to DVC


----------



## nuhusky123

DisDad- said:


> Fr
> 
> 
> From your post to Gods ears. I’d be all for the Yacht Club conversion to DVC


I’d imagine yc would sell like hotcakes and just picture the debates we can have on price. Now the question, is yc worth more $ per point than gfv 

even A paltry 100 room conversion would net dvc solid profits and generate stiff competition for sales


----------



## Paul Stupin

KAT4DISNEY said:


> Unless Disney decides to close their water parks their pretty unlikely to do anything that is close to SAB again.


I think you’re right, but I’m sure Disney could come up with a smaller, fun pool that echoed the spirit of SAB, if not the size or layout. It would certainly be better than the more generic second pool they have now.


----------



## Memorymakerfor4

Nabas said:


> YC would be great but there's no room to construct a new building, even one as small as BCV.  In addition, YC doesn't have a lot of rooms.  As you note, with the convention center connected to the YC and close location to Epcot, Disney usually fills the Y&BC.
> 
> After the Big Pine Key conversion, here's the room count at the Deluxe Resorts:
> 
> Boardwalk Inn = 372 rooms
> Wilderness Lodge = 430 rooms
> Polynesian = 479 rooms
> Beach Club = 583 rooms
> Yacht Club = 621 rooms
> Contemporary = 655 rooms
> Grand Floridian = 668 rooms
> Animal Kingdom Lodge = 943 rooms
> By far, AKL is the largest Deluxe Resort.  There are 343 rooms (nearly all Studios) on the 4th floor at AKL.  With the 5th & 6th floors already DVC, the most obvious thing to do is convert the 4th floor to DVC.  The issue with those is that the contract ends in 2057.
> 
> Another option is to convert the remaining Boardwalk Inn into DVC.  Like Wilderness Lodge, these could be treated differently than BWV, especially since it's physically separate from the existing BWV.  (Similar to how BRV and CCV are different DVC resorts.)



I only started reading about 10 pages ago, so I apologize if this has already been discussed, but I wonder if Disney would ever add on to CCV like they are at GFV. They could easily take another floor from the resort and convert it into studios, which would be amazing!


----------



## Sandisw

Memorymakerfor4 said:


> I only started reading about 10 pages ago, so I apologize if this has already been discussed, but I wonder if Disney would ever add on to CCV like they are at GFV. They could easily take another floor from the resort and convert it into studios, which would be amazing!



I think if this is a success then we may very well see more hotel rooms moved into DVC before they build new resorts.


----------



## davidl81

nuhusky123 said:


> I’d imagine yc would sell like hotcakes and just picture the debates we can have on price. Now the question, is yc worth more $ per point than gfv
> 
> even A paltry 100 room conversion would net dvc solid profits and generate stiff competition for sales


YC to me has always made the most sense for a DVC conversion.  The reason I’ve heard it didn’t happen was because Disney wanted rooms for all the the various conventions.  I’d guess now with the new Swam Reserve maybe there is less demand for YC rooms.  But YC rooms that overlook the board walk would be amazing for DVC.  Would be interesting to see how the point chart would look compared to BCV or BWV though.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

davidl81 said:


> YC to me has always made the most sense for a DVC conversion.  The reason I’ve heard it didn’t happen was because Disney wanted rooms for all the the various conventions.  I’d guess now with the new Swam Reserve maybe there is less demand for YC rooms.  But YC rooms that overlook the board walk would be amazing for DVC.  Would be interesting to see how the point chart would look compared to BCV or BWV though.



The Swan is not Disney owned however.  Disney conventions use Disney rooms and vice versa.   Of course attendees can decide to not stay at a host hotel but I don't think that's extremely common.  As long as Disney is going after convention business they'll probably want to keep Yacht Club hotel rooms only.


----------



## dvc lover 1970

They are not going to tear down the old resorts when they  just update.  Maybe knock down sound walls to open up the front foyer but other than that it's not changing


----------



## dvc lover 1970

davidl81 said:


> YC to me has always made the most sense for a DVC conversion.  The reason I’ve heard it didn’t happen was because Disney wanted rooms for all the the various conventions.  I’d guess now with the new Swam Reserve maybe there is less demand for YC rooms.  But YC rooms that overlook the board walk would be amazing for DVC.  Would be interesting to see how the point chart would look compared to BCV or BWV though.


I never thought they would do a yc for the very reason you stated. Even with the swan reserve that is not disney resort. The YC books week for their conventions.


----------



## Jwaire

Nabas said:


> After the Big Pine Key conversion, here's the room count at the Deluxe Resorts:
> 
> Boardwalk Inn = 372 rooms
> Wilderness Lodge = 430 rooms
> Polynesian = 479 rooms
> Beach Club = 583 rooms
> Yacht Club = 621 rooms
> Contemporary = 655 rooms
> Grand Floridian = 668 rooms
> Animal Kingdom Lodge = 943 rooms
> By far, AKL is the largest Deluxe Resort.  There are 343 rooms (nearly all Studios) on the 4th floor at AKL.  With the 5th & 6th floors already DVC, the most obvious thing to do is convert the 4th floor to DVC.  The issue with those is that the contract ends in 2057.
> 
> Another option is to convert the remaining Boardwalk Inn into DVC.  Like Wilderness Lodge, these could be treated differently than BWV, especially since it's physically separate from the existing BWV.  (Similar to how BRV and CCV are different DVC resorts.)



I could see them eventually tearing down the convention center. Conferences are becoming a thing of the past. Businesses have so many budget friendly alternatives now like online training, Zoom, etc. Ignoring COVID concerns, they don't want to spend the money on sending their employees to conferences. You will always have the cheer/dance conferences, but they could use one of the many other conference centers on property.

I love Animal Kingdom Lodge, but it's so far away from everything. I just don't see them investing anything else into it.

They did a lot of work in front Epcot. Maybe they will finally build something there? Or tear down Caribbean Beach and expand Rivera?

I think the most likely scenario is that they redesign Reflections and build on their already prepared site.

My dream scenario is that they tear down the Polynesian Luau space and add a 1 and 2 bedroom building. They could make it a tower, similar to the original concept artwork for the resort. They've considered this before.

https://www.orlandoweekly.com/Blogs...e-coming-to-disneys-polynesian-village-resort


----------



## pinkxray

I planted the seed today in Dh’s mind to add on at GFV2. He is not a Disney person and does not like GF at all. He comes on trips now bc we have small kids but I could definitely see him stopping in a few years. My older DD17 and I love GF and would stay there every time. We are staying at VGF on a girls trip in Feb. to do the Princess 10k. I would love to add on around 50 points so we can continue our RunDisney girls trip. 
He didn’t look thrilled at the idea. Hoping I can wear him down. I am jealous of everyone who has spouses that support your addonitis. Pretty sure my husband thinks I’m crazy every time I mentioning adding on. But he wasn’t complaining when we stayed in a 2 bedroom at Copper Creek last month.


----------



## Einstein509

jacec said:


> Thoughts on this groups POV On a VGF1 resale contract now?  I am looking at final decision on a 250 point December UY contract that has  DEC21 351 pts, of which 101 are banked from DEC 2020 and full 250 2022 points available.  Seller wants $203pp
> 
> I currently own AUL & SSR direct contracts with Dec UY.
> 
> Really want to be able to book 2BR VGF for post Christmas which is hard to do at 7 months.


Recent VGF contracts have been selling (and passing ROFR) for around $175-$185.  We just bought a 105 pt contract for $180.  I would NOT pay $203.  That is nuts.


----------



## Paul Stupin

dvc lover 1970 said:


> They are not going to tear down the old resorts when they  just update.  Maybe knock down sound walls to open up the front foyer but other than that it's not changing


Why wouldn’t they consider tearing down a 40-50 year old building in 2042 and  adding more rooms in a larger structure? It’s cheaper than building a new resort from scratch, and would certainly generate a ton of interest. They’re not going to just slap a new coat of paint on it.[/QUOTE]


----------



## Sandisw

Paul Stupin said:


> Why wouldn’t they consider tearing down a 40-50 year old building in 2042 and  adding more rooms in a larger structure? It’s cheaper than building a new resort from scratch, and would certainly generate a ton of interest. They’re not going to just slap a new coat of paint on it.


[/QUOTE]

I agree that a renovation will happen.  As long as a building is structurally sound, there is no reason to tear down.  I still wonder if we won't see some level of conversion of BC and BWI rooms prior to 2042 into DVC so they can sell those and have them ready to go when BCV and BWV end...then renovate the current DVC side of the buildings..

Sort of what was done with Poly...take a few floors offline, change into DVC..and now you have your new resort in the same location being developed during those last few years!


----------



## DougEMG

DisDad- said:


> Fr
> 
> 
> From your post to Gods ears. I’d be all for the Yacht Club conversion to DVC



I'd love a DVC at the Yacht Club, but I shudder to think what the price would be.


----------



## Tbella

pinkxray said:


> I planted the seed today in Dh’s mind to add on at GFV2. He is not a Disney person and does not like GF at all. He comes on trips now bc we have small kids but I could definitely see him stopping in a few years. My older DD17 and I love GF and would stay there every time. We are staying at VGF on a girls trip in Feb. to do the Princess 10k. I would love to add on around 50 points so we can continue our RunDisney girls trip.
> He didn’t look thrilled at the idea. Hoping I can wear him down. I am jealous of everyone who has spouses that support your addonitis. Pretty sure my husband thinks I’m crazy every time I mentioning adding on. But he wasn’t complaining when we stayed in a 2 bedroom at Copper Creek last month.



I know how you feel. We just purchased our first DVC contract. I have 2 college age kids and a 12 year old. I dragged my husband to Disney for the first time when we started dating. We would go every other year when the kids were little, but then starting going every year and more when the kids got a bit older, but hubby began skipping the Disney vacations and would only go once in a while. I have been bringing up DVC to him for over a decade and have finally wore him down. I am now starting to plant the seed of adding on with a GF2 contract but don't know if this is just a futile endeavor. We are going to Disney for my birthday weekend beginning of March. Hoping to show him an unforgettable time , and then drag him to a DVC presentation .


----------



## SusieQ93

For about a week, I was seeing DVC ads on Instagram for VGF2. Now I’m seeing Aulani and “don’t miss out on the savings!” Ads for the current promos and like others said, I was seeing VGF2 on the DVC website but now just see RIV. I wonder what it all means?! I’m planning to buy in once it’s available and eagerly waiting to hand over my money to DVC  Been on the fence about it for a few years, really wanted VGF but didn’t want to buy because I knew how limited studios were. So this addition is perfect for me. And don’t tell my husband but I’m already scheming on a small add on contract at DLT. Fingers crossed the pricing really is close to the current prices. Even for a diehard fan like me, it would be hard to justify too much higher.


----------



## Sandisw

SusieQ93 said:


> For about a week, I was seeing DVC ads on Instagram for VGF2. Now I’m seeing Aulani and “don’t miss out on the savings!” Ads for the current promos and like others said, I was seeing VGF2 on the DVC website but now just see RIV. I wonder what it all means?! I’m planning to buy in once it’s available and eagerly waiting to hand over my money to DVC  Been on the fence about it for a few years, really wanted VGF but didn’t want to buy because I knew how limited studios were. So this addition is perfect for me. And don’t tell my husband but I’m already scheming on a small add on contract at DLT. Fingers crossed the pricing really is close to the current prices. Even for a diehard fan like me, it would be hard to justify too much higher.



Still have the Coming Soon and video for VGF.  Weird that some members do not.


----------



## AvidDisReader

I agree that a renovation will happen.  As long as a building is structurally sound, there is no reason to tear down.  I still wonder if we won't see some level of conversion of BC and BWI rooms prior to 2042 into DVC so they can sell those and have them ready to go when BCV and BWV end...then renovate the current DVC side of the buildings..

Sort of what was done with Poly...take a few floors offline, change into DVC..and now you have your new resort in the same location being developed during those last few years!
[/QUOTE]
I have posted this before on a different site, but when we talk about the future of the Boardwalk I just cannot help that we think big.  A total tear down and rebuild would be the greatest financial result in DVC history.  There would be no more cash rooms, the new Boardwalk would all be DVC.  You add at least 2 floors to what is there now.  By the time of 2042 we are talking north of $300 per point.  With new point charts, let us speculate over 10 million points.  Do the match, in access of 3 BILLION dollars.


----------



## RoseGold

Weird, I don't see the VGF stuff anymore either.


----------



## Sandisw

AvidDisReader said:


> I agree that a renovation will happen.  As long as a building is structurally sound, there is no reason to tear down.  I still wonder if we won't see some level of conversion of BC and BWI rooms prior to 2042 into DVC so they can sell those and have them ready to go when BCV and BWV end...then renovate the current DVC side of the buildings..
> 
> Sort of what was done with Poly...take a few floors offline, change into DVC..and now you have your new resort in the same location being developed during those last few years!


I have posted this before on a different site, but when we talk about the future of the Boardwalk I just cannot help that we think big.  A total tear down and rebuild would be the greatest financial result in DVC history.  There would be no more cash rooms, the new Boardwalk would all be DVC.  You add at least 2 floors to what is there now.  By the time of 2042 we are talking north of $300 per point.  With new point charts, let us speculate over 10 million points.  Do the match, in access of 3 BILLION dollars.
[/QUOTE]

But why tear down? Convert BWI to more studios and then make the lock offs at BWV just 2 bedrooms.   Add in some one bedrooms in the current hotel side.  

Just don’t know why you’d have to completely demolish it.


----------



## AvidDisReader

Sandisw said:


> I have posted this before on a different site, but when we talk about the future of the Boardwalk I just cannot help that we think big.  A total tear down and rebuild would be the greatest financial result in DVC history.  There would be no more cash rooms, the new Boardwalk would all be DVC.  You add at least 2 floors to what is there now.  By the time of 2042 we are talking north of $300 per point.  With new point charts, let us speculate over 10 million points.  Do the match, in access of 3 BILLION dollars.



But why tear down? Convert BWI to more studios and then make the lock offs at BWV just 2 bedrooms.   Add in some one bedrooms in the current hotel side. 

Just don’t know why you’d have to completely demolish it.
[/QUOTE]
Money and lots of it.  Again, do not think small.  You can bet your bottom dollar the Disney will not.


----------



## Sandisw

AvidDisReader said:


> Money and lots of it.  Again, do not think small.  You can bet your bottom dollar the Disney will not.



Except I don’t think tear down gets them more money. I think a good renovation will allow them to sell just as high and have less upfront costs.

I don’t think it’s about thinking big or small.   I just see that it achieves the same goal and Disney will spend the least it can to maximize profits.

If renovating gets them the same return, they will go that route.  If they need to tear down and start from scratch, they will. I just don’t think they will need to do it.

If this level of VGF is a success, I bet we see more of it.


----------



## Einstein509

RoseGold said:


> Weird, I don't see the VGF stuff anymore either.


Same here.  Back to Riviera advertising.


----------



## Nabas

AvidDisReader said:


> I have posted this before on a different site, but when we talk about the future of the Boardwalk I just cannot help that we think big.  A total tear down and rebuild would be the greatest financial result in DVC history.  There would be no more cash rooms, the new Boardwalk would all be DVC.  You add at least 2 floors to what is there now.  By the time of 2042 we are talking north of $300 per point.  With new point charts, let us speculate over 10 million points.  Do the match, in access of 3 BILLION dollars.


The greatest financial result in DVC history would be to build a large new resort that's connected directly to a theme park.  (Think Grand Californian only larger.)  For years, there's been talk of doing this at Epcot.  It still hasn't happened.

In 2042, Disney gets the BWV's 4.8 million points for free.

DVC members are responsible for BWV maintenance up till that date.

This means that Disney gets a fully restored BWV and 4.8 million points for free in 2042.

Tearing that down to spend hundreds-of-millions makes little financial sense.   It's all about ROI.  Disney gets to sell 4.8 million points (which might become 7 million points with a new point chart) with almost no investment.  Disney is going to want to spend the capex someplace else.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

As no renovations have apparently started on Big Pine there remains the possibility of DVC getting cold feet yet again.  I'm not saying they have but it could happen.  Even if they started renovations there isn't a thing I can see that is being done that wouldn't lend itself to just being a room renovations for GF hotel rooms.   Or perhaps it's just delayed for any number of reasons such as material shortage, worker shortage etc and so they are pulling back the marketing to wait until dates can be revised.


----------



## Sandisw

KAT4DISNEY said:


> As no renovations have apparently started on Big Pine there remains the possibility of DVC getting cold feet yet again.  I'm not saying they have but it could happen.  Even if they started renovations there isn't a thing I can see that is being done that wouldn't lend itself to just being a room renovations for GF hotel rooms.   Or perhaps it's just delayed for any number of reasons such as material shortage, worker shortage etc and so they are pulling back the marketing to wait until dates can be revised.



They mentioned renovations would be Spring. So, I am not surprised nothing has started,

But, I was thinking about the fact when they released the 2023 charts, they didn’t update the 2022…unless I missed it…to add resort studios as those since they are supposed to open this year.

I find that interesting.


----------



## Nabas

KAT4DISNEY said:


> As no renovations have apparently started on Big Pine there remains the possibility of DVC getting cold feet yet again.  I'm not saying they have but it could happen.  Even if they started renovations there isn't a thing I can see that is being done that wouldn't lend itself to just being a room renovations for GF hotel rooms.   Or perhaps it's just delayed for any number of reasons such as material shortage, worker shortage etc and so they are pulling back the marketing to wait until dates can be revised.


The VGF2 announcement stated, "*Starting next* *spring*" and "Projected to open in summer 2022".  Per the original announcement, renovations were scheduled to begin in the spring.

Without a formal announcement, it's too early to know if Disney is getting cold feet.


----------



## Nabas

Sandisw said:


> But, I was thinking about the fact when they released the 2023 charts, they didn’t update the 2022…unless I missed it…to add resort studios as those since they are supposed to open this year.


2022 point charts were updated to include VGF2.


----------



## Wedgeout

I’m going to enjoy this point selling excitement as people buy into an already 34 year old building. Shouldn’t take the cheap route by refreshing old structures and reselling. Even plumbing and electrical becomes worn out. Follow the Las Vegas example. Demolish and rebuild something even better.


----------



## Nabas

Wedgeout said:


> I’m going to enjoy this point selling excitement as people buy into an already 34 year old building. Shouldn’t take the cheap route by refreshing old structures and reselling. Even plumbing and electrical becomes worn out. Follow the Las Vegas example. Demolish and rebuild something even better.


Why?  Once they sell all of the VGF2 points, they can get VGF owners to pay for the renovation.


----------



## nuhusky123

Although I don’t see the big slash screen and video I still see the smaller gfv coming soon tile with a deeper overview of gfv further down the home page

if dvc was getting cold feet that tile would be gone too


----------



## hhisc16

Saw this on the main page still.
*Coming Soon!
The Villas at Disney’s Grand Floridian Resort & Spa*


----------



## AvidDisReader

Sandisw said:


> Except I don’t think tear down gets them more money. I think a good renovation will allow them to sell just as high and have less upfront costs.
> 
> I don’t think it’s about thinking big or small.   I just see that it achieves the same goal and Disney will spend the least it can to maximize profits.
> 
> If renovating gets them the same return, they will go that route.  If they need to tear down and start from scratch, they will. I just don’t think they will need to do it.
> 
> If this level of VGF is a success, I bet we see more of it.


We will just have to agree to disagree.  Your idea would net them hundreds of millions of dollars, where as my idea nets billions.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

nuhusky123 said:


> Although I don’t see the big slash screen and video I still see the smaller gfv coming soon tile with a deeper overview of gfv further down the home page
> 
> if dvc was getting cold feet that tile would be gone too



There's a place on the website that still mentions must purchase 125 points to get membership benefits.  I guess I don't count on them to be really great at pulling and updating every page.    

Again, I'm not saying they've cancelled or even delayed but it is interesting that they were starting to promote and now some of that is disappearing.


----------



## nuhusky123

Strange strategy for sure


----------



## Ruttangel

Nabas said:


> This means that Disney gets a fully restored BWV and 4.8 million points for free in 2042.


Is it really fully restored? I don’t think they can push a new roof on owners in 2041.
This issue is complicated at OKW as some owners are arguing that maintenance for big items that are scheduled to happen after 2042 should only be paid by 2057 owners.


----------



## Nabas

Ruttangel said:


> Is it really fully restored? I don’t think they can push a new roof on owners in 2041.
> This issue is complicated at OKW as some owners are arguing that maintenance for big items that are scheduled to happen after 2042 should only be paid by 2057 owners.


We are responsible for maintenance until 2042.  If BWV needs a new roof in 2041, it’s going to get a new roof in 2041.


----------



## DonMacGregor

KAT4DISNEY said:


> As no renovations have apparently started on Big Pine there remains the possibility of DVC getting cold feet yet again.  I'm not saying they have but it could happen.  Even if they started renovations there isn't a thing I can see that is being done that wouldn't lend itself to just being a room renovations for GF hotel rooms.   Or perhaps it's just delayed for any number of reasons such as material shortage, worker shortage etc and so they are pulling back the marketing to wait until dates can be revised.


It's because they're headed over to BRV (we can still fantasize).


----------



## prouddaddycdn

My understanding is that costs such roof are amortized over "useful life" so if a roof is determined to last 20 years, owners would only be responsible for 1/20th of the roof cost in 2041.   Spread over the amount of points at the resort, that cost increase would be minimal.


----------



## Sandisw

Nabas said:


> 2022 point charts were updated to include VGF2.
> 
> View attachment 642470



Thanks! I did indeed miss that!!!


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

DonMacGregor said:


> It's because they're headed over to BRV (we can still fantasize).



I almost typed that.  Then I got a grip on fantasy vs reality.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

Nabas said:


> We are responsible for maintenance until 2042.  If BWV needs a new roof in 2041, it’s going to get a new roof in 2041.



That would be a very difficult thing to justify in the lawsuits that would undoubtably follow.


----------



## Nabas

prouddaddycdn said:


> My understanding is that costs such roof are amortized over "useful life" so if a roof is determined to last 20 years, owners would only be responsible for 1/20th of the roof cost in 2041.   Spread over the amount of points at the resort, that cost increase would be minimal.


Yes, Disney uses the straight line method to  depreciate the value of assets.  From their 10K’s, physical assets (such as hotels and attractions) typically are deprecated over 25 to 40 years.  No roof will last 25 years, so presumably that deprecates faster.

But that’s not what we’re talking about here.  Rather, we DVC members in effect pay for the roof every year.  If, using your number, Disney estimates that the roof will last 20 years, then we theoretically are paying one-twentieth of that cost every year.

If BWV needs a new roof in 2041, then that cost will come out of funds that Disney has set aside every year (from our annual Maintenance Fees) to pay for maintenance such as a new roof.

Presumably, people who are still members in 2042 will be reimbursed any funds that remain in that maintenance account.  However, until 2042, we are paying 98% of all maintenance costs for BWV.

(By state law, Disney is required to maintain 2% ownership.)

At least, that’s my understanding of how it works.


----------



## Nabas

KAT4DISNEY said:


> That would be a very difficult thing to justify in the lawsuits that would undoubtably follow.


We are responsible for returning BWV to Disney in good condition.  Legally, we owners cannot stop paying for maintenance just because we know Disney gets the asset back in 2042.

Quite the opposite.  Disney can sue us if we fail to maintain BWV in good condition.

If the roof truly needs to be replaced in 2041, then we are legally responsible for replacing it.

Now if Disney finds an unscrupulous contractor who says the roof needs to be replaced when it doesn’t, then we can sue.

I’m simply saying that if the roof legitimately needs to be replaced in 2041, then we are responsible.  We continue to be responsible until ownership transfers back to Disney.


----------



## DonMacGregor

Nabas said:


> Yes, Disney uses the straight line method to  depreciate the value of assets.  From their 10K’s, physical assets (such as hotels and attractions) typically are deprecated over 25 to 40 years.  No roof will last 25 years, so pres





Nabas said:


> But that’s not what we’re talking about here.  Rather, we DVC members in effect pay for the roof every year.  If, using your number, Disney estimates that the roof will last 20 years, then we theoretically are paying one-twentieth of that cost every year.
> 
> If BWV needs a new roof in 2041, then that cost will come out of funds that Disney has set aside every year (from our annual Maintenance Fees) to pay for maintenance such as a new roof.



Exactly. Another way to look at it is the cost of the anticipated new roof collected through MF's and added to the capital reserves is broken out over 20 years (or 25 or 50) based on useful life, and we pay for every year we enjoy the use of that roof.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

Nabas said:


> We are responsible for returning BWV to Disney in good condition.  Legally, we owners cannot stop paying for maintenance just because we know Disney gets the asset back in 2042.
> 
> Quite the opposite.  Disney can sue us if we fail to maintain BWV in good condition.
> 
> If the roof truly needs to be replaced in 2041, then we are legally responsible for replacing it.
> 
> Now if Disney finds an unscrupulous contractor who says the roof needs to be replaced when it doesn’t, then we can sue.
> 
> I’m simply saying that if the roof legitimately needs to be replaced in 2041, then we are responsible.  We continue to be responsible until ownership transfers back to Disney.



Please point me to anything that states it needs to be turned over to them in good condition.  They did not build it.  They leased the land to DVC.   In the cases of AKV and PVB Disney did not turn the buildings over with new roofs or new siding.  It would be quite rare to require a property to be returned in better shape than it was turned in if it had a building on it and in most cases the development 100% was done by DVC and we purchased it.  These are not building leases.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

Nabas said:


> We are responsible for returning BWV to Disney in good condition.  Legally, we owners cannot stop paying for maintenance just because we know Disney gets the asset back in 2042.
> 
> Quite the opposite.  Disney can sue us if we fail to maintain BWV in good condition.
> 
> If the roof truly needs to be replaced in 2041, then we are legally responsible for replacing it.
> 
> Now if Disney finds an unscrupulous contractor who says the roof needs to be replaced when it doesn’t, then we can sue.
> 
> I’m simply saying that if the roof legitimately needs to be replaced in 2041, then we are responsible.  We continue to be responsible until ownership transfers back to Disney.



On another note that backs up my reply.  When OKW owners who did not extended took some sort of legal action against DVC for the extension DVC relayed to the state of FL (I believe) that they 2042 owners would not be charged for improvements that extended past their ownership.  ie they would not be paying for a new roof in 2041.


----------



## fumanchu2488

I think the thing people are missing with the tear down versus renovation is the building itself.  If they do a renovation only with another 50 year deed they are asking the major structural components to be structurally sound for over 100 years.  Early to mid 90s construction may not last that long and by relying on that is a big risk to them.  Also, a tear down would allow them to make the building itself a lot more energy efficient.  They could take the risk of the renovation to flip it quicker in any case.


----------



## Nabas

fumanchu2488 said:


> I think the thing people are missing with the tear down versus renovation is the building itself.  If they do a renovation only with another 50 year deed they are asking the major structural components to be structurally sound for over 100 years.  Early to mid 90s construction may not last that long and by relying on that is a big risk to them.  Also, a tear down would allow them to make the building itself a lot more energy efficient.  They could take the risk of the renovation to flip it quicker in any case.


Keep in mind that the Polynesian and Contemporary are now more than 50 years old.  The Poly just went through a major renovation but there’s no talk of tearing them down.


----------



## dvc lover 1970

Agree with previous post. Also by renovating verses year down they are bandaged into to whatever building codes were in place when the building was built.


----------



## nuhusky123

Back to gfv

next week feb 3 aul/riv go up in price. I’m predicting gfv pricing and or sales start feb 3


----------



## zebsterama

fumanchu2488 said:


> I think the thing people are missing with the tear down versus renovation is the building itself.  If they do a renovation only with another 50 year deed they are asking the major structural components to be structurally sound for over 100 years.  Early to mid 90s construction may not last that long and by relying on that is a big risk to them.  Also, a tear down would allow them to make the building itself a lot more energy efficient.  They could take the risk of the renovation to flip it quicker in any case.



Aside from the allure of either building something completely different, or seriously changing the foundational footprint, or deciding to take something like Beach Club and turn it into a 30 story hotel - provided Disney does a complete gut/redo [and they would], you don't need to blow it up. 

Things like structure / electrical / plumbing will all be fine for decades. HVAC would be a pain, and if they decided to do some kind of very different room configuration (that could very well change things), but as far as the structure holding up to the abuse of elements like weather/heat/cold (even hurricanes)/wear and tear, it's fine to last another cycle.

Depending on what they're doing, it may be easier/cost effective in the end to just start fresh (blow it up) but there's no pressing reason because of a fear of it not being able to hold up.


----------



## FinallyFL

Will there be a preview center for the new rooms when the GFV2 price is announced or will they attempt to sell with only drawings? I only own resale so I'm not aware of what has been done before. I'll be at GFV on Feb 6-8 so I'd love to see the new rooms in person.


----------



## stwaldman

FinallyFL said:


> Will there be a preview center for the new rooms when the GFV2 price is announced or will they attempt to sell with only drawings? I only own resale so I'm not aware of what has been done before. I'll be at GFV on Feb 6-8 so I'd love to see the new rooms in person.


There's already a tour room in the old villas, my best guess is they will use that until the newly reno'd big pine rooms are ready to stick a guide in.

Edited to acknowledge I have not kept up on the Reno of the old villas, which will have a similar style but different layout so again, probably limited need to actually tour the "new rooms"


----------



## zebsterama

If VGF1 and VGF2 are under the same association, is it reasonable to assume that if someone wanted to purchase a "guaranteed week" contract, that every room category would be available for purchase? 

For example if we wanted to buy a 1 or 2 bedroom guaranteed week contract, that option would be available for purchase when VGF2 points go on the market? 

I'm guessing the constraint is that there are a "limited" amount of GW's allocated per week/per room category .... but just wondering. 

What might I be missing? /  Thoughts?


----------



## Sandisw

nuhusky123 said:


> Back to gfv
> 
> next week feb 3 aul/riv go up in price. I’m predicting gfv pricing and or sales start feb 3



I think we will see pricing next week, but with nothing yet declared, they can not legally sell yet…unless they sell the old points on hand, but they’d have to have a decent amount to bridge between the two.

I say sales actually start in March.


----------



## Sandisw

stwaldman said:


> There's already a tour room in the old villas, my best guess is they will use that until the newly reno'd big pine rooms are ready to stick a guide in.
> 
> Edited to acknowledge I have not kept up on the Reno of the old villas, which will have a similar style but different layout so again, probably limited need to actually tour the "new rooms"



The resort studios will be different than the current studios so what has been done is not going to be the same.  The nee rooms include two beds, a daybed, and no kitchenette.


----------



## Sandisw

zebsterama said:


> If VGF1 and VGF2 are under the same association, is it reasonable to assume that if someone wanted to purchase a "guaranteed week" contract, that every room category would be available for purchase?
> 
> For example if we wanted to buy a 1 or 2 bedroom guaranteed week contract, that option would be available for purchase when VGF2 points go on the market?
> 
> I'm guessing the constraint is that there are a "limited" amount of GW's allocated per week/per room category .... but just wondering.
> 
> What might I be missing? /  Thoughts?



They can only sell you a guaranteed week in one of those if the have enough points deeded to the current building that holds them.

The points for the new rooms will be deeded to the new building so they can not sell you a guaranteed week with those points for anything but the resort studios. 

So, once sales start, it will really depend on what they own.  They did do a decent amount of ROFRing this past year, so it’s feasible they could.

But these new points won’t apply


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

Sandisw said:


> They can only sell you a guaranteed week in one of those if the have enough points deeded to the current building that holds them.
> 
> The points for the new rooms will be deeded to the new building so they can not sell you a guaranteed week with those points for anything but the resort studios.
> 
> So, once sales start, it will really depend on what they own.  They did do a decent amount of ROFRing this past year, so it’s feasible they could.
> 
> But these new points won’t apply


I will just add that Disney has been selling GWs for VGF1 over the last few years, so I imagine if you can’t get one right away you can get one eventually.


----------



## EYL

Sandisw said:


> They can only sell you a guaranteed week in one of those if the have enough points deeded to the current building that holds them.
> 
> The points for the new rooms will be deeded to the new building so they can not sell you a guaranteed week with those points for anything but the resort studios.
> 
> So, once sales start, it will really depend on what they own.  They did do a decent amount of ROFRing this past year, so it’s feasible they could.
> 
> But these new points won’t apply



I was under the impression that DVC must own at least 2% of the entire resort.  So if VGF1/VGF2 is considered under the same association and they're adding more points to the entirety, then they can own 2% of the whole without differentiating which building.  Also, since the GW is capped at 35% per room type (resort studio vs deluxe studio), if there is availability for a specific week and the points are there (even if it's in VGF1), they should be able to sell it.  I say this because if this is true, the sale of additional VGF1 GW's could hose the availability for the original owners and would be extremely "unfair."

Obviously, this is all my interpretation (and I am far from an expert with DVC) when researching GW's for RIV, and watching this all unfold is very interesting...


----------



## Sandisw

EYL said:


> I was under the impression that DVC must own at least 2% of the entire resort.  So if VGF1/VGF2 is considered under the same association and they're adding more points to the entirety, then they can own 2% of the whole without differentiating which building.  Also, since the GW is capped at 35% per room type (resort studio vs deluxe studio), if there is availability for a specific week and the points are there (even if it's in VGF1), they should be able to sell it.  I say this because if this is true, the sale of additional VGF1 GW's could hose the availability for the original owners and would be extremely "unfair."
> 
> Obviously, this is all my interpretation when researching GW's for RIV, and watching this all unfold is very interesting...





ETA:  We have confirmation from someone with a GW that points only need to be at the resort....it does not have to be in a unit of the same size.


----------



## EYL

Sandisw said:


> This is true, but they still have to have enough points deeded and in stock to sell a GW in a 1 or 2 bedroom unit.
> 
> The point was more that the new points won’t change that requirement.  Now, could they give up all points deeded to the old building and keep the 2% deeded to the new building?
> 
> I don’t think so because I thought it had to be by units. But, I am not sure and have to look at that again.
> 
> However, they can not deed someone to the new building as a GW week in anything but a resort studio.
> 
> Anyone who now wants a GW for a 1 bedroom, would have to be deeded to a 1 bedroom unit and to do that, the points must be available.



Ah!  I understand what you're saying now.  Thanks for the explanation!


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

Sandisw said:


> They can only sell you a guaranteed week in one of those if the have enough points deeded to the current building that holds them.
> 
> The points for the new rooms will be deeded to the new building so they can not sell you a guaranteed week with those points for anything but the resort studios.
> 
> So, once sales start, it will really depend on what they own.  They did do a decent amount of ROFRing this past year, so it’s feasible they could.
> 
> But these new points won’t apply



For certain?  In a traditional timeshare I'd believe that would be the case but DVC remains a point based system that sells a contract with a guaranteed _reservation _for a particular week every year for certain size unit.  The only thing I've seen outlined is that they are restricted to selling no more than 35% of reservations for any room type for any week.   They don't have to have the deed assigned to a unit with that type of accommodation I don't believe.


----------



## Sandisw

KAT4DISNEY said:


> For certain?  In a traditional timeshare I'd believe that would be the case but DVC remains a point based system that sells a contract with a guaranteed _reservation _for a particular week every year for certain size unit.  The only thing I've seen outlined is that they are restricted to selling no more than 35% of reservations for any room type for any week.   They don't have to have the deed assigned to a unit with that type of accommodation I don't believe.




ETA:  My information was not correct and people have bought FW and not been deeded to units that have those room sizes.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

Sandisw said:


> From my understanding and research it is that you are deeded to a unit that includes the room type for your fixed week.
> 
> Yes, limits to 35% per POS and prior to this it wasn’t really an issue because things were not added later. This would be the first.
> 
> I am going to have tI see if I can locate where I found it because I’d don’t want to give misinformation for sure!!



My question would be if it has to be or if that's the way it's generally happened because most units declared do have multiple types of units?  So for example every walk in shower fixed week owner is deed to a unit that has a walk in shower villa?


----------



## Sandisw

KAT4DISNEY said:


> My question would be if it has to be or if that's the way it's generally happened because most units declared do have multiple types of units?  So for example every walk in shower fixed week owner is deed to a unit that has a walk in shower villa?



ETA:  It has been clarified by @Lorana that a GW does not have to be deeded to a unit that contains that actual rooms size, so it is possible that GW will be offered with the new points being sold at VGF


----------



## zebsterama

Ok --- since I've started with the fixed week question ... I have a follow-up.

If I'm an existing VGF1 points holder without a specific guaranteed week, is there an opportunity for me to purchase a guaranteed week with my existing point total (or supplement/pay a premium to obtain a fixed week)? Are things like that allowed?

also ..... if the answer is *YES *that is possible, does it matter if I'm a direct DVC purchaser or resale?


----------



## Sandisw

zebsterama said:


> Ok --- since I've started with the fixed week question ... I have a follow-up.
> 
> If I'm an existing VGF1 points holder without a specific guaranteed week, is there an opportunity for me to purchase a guaranteed week with my existing point total (or supplement/pay a premium to obtain a fixed week)? Are things like that allowed?
> 
> also ..... if the answer is *YES *that is possible, does it matter if I'm a direct DVC purchaser or resale?



You can not convert your contract to a fixed week.

It has to be deeded as a fixed week which requires a new contract.

Now, can DVD put a policy in place to allow it to happen? Maybe, but it would most likely be them buying the current one back very cheap and selling you a brand new one.


----------



## zebsterama

Sandisw said:


> You can not convert your contract to a fixed week.
> 
> It has to be deeded as a fixed week which requires a new contract.
> 
> Now, can DVD put a policy in place to allow it to happen? Maybe, but it would most likely be them buying the current one back very cheap and selling you a brand new one.




I figured as much --- it seemed to good to be true.   

Thanks!


----------



## Lorana

KAT4DISNEY said:


> Unless Disney decides to close their water parks their pretty unlikely to do anything that is close to SAB again.


Reflections was going to have a lazy river and a pool area. Of course, Reflections is tabled for now. But one* can hope it’ll return!

*that would be me. I’m hoping!


----------



## nuhusky123

I’m sure something will be built on that land. It was cleared and graded if I’m not mistaken. That’s not cheap so Disney will want to use it eventually


----------



## Lorana

KAT4DISNEY said:


> For certain?  In a traditional timeshare I'd believe that would be the case but DVC remains a point based system that sells a contract with a guaranteed _reservation _for a particular week every year for certain size unit.  The only thing I've seen outlined is that they are restricted to selling no more than 35% of reservations for any room type for any week.   They don't have to have the deed assigned to a unit with that type of accommodation I don't believe.


I have 3 FWs/GWs at CCV in a Tub Studio.  We picked tub to have the chance at the alternate studio layouts, but have never gotten the room request - it makes me regret not getting a Walk-In Shower Studio instead, since I actually prefer those to tubs!  But that aside, all of my FWs guarantee a week in a tub studio. I just looked up my deeded contracts and none of them include a tub studio in the units I’m actually deeded to (Unit 5C for one and Unit 21C for two of them).


----------



## Sandisw

Lorana said:


> I have 3 FWs/GWs at CCV in a Tub Studio.  We picked tub to have the chance at the alternate studio layouts, but have never gotten the room request - it makes me regret not getting a Walk-In Shower Studio instead, since I actually prefer those to tubs!  But that aside, all of my FWs guarantee a week in a tub studio. I just looked up my deeded contracts and none of them include a tub studio in the units I’m actually deeded to (Unit 5C for one and Unit 21C for two of them).



Thanks for sharing and it is good to have confirmation that my interpretation of the rules was not correct.  I am going to amend all of my posts to reflect this!!!


----------



## Sandisw

So, I was looking at the 2022 chart for the resort studio for the beginning of December and it is 5 points less than in 2023.  Now I am wondering if I should get a FW even though I won't ever use it if they offer a price discount at 125 points.  With the premium, I'd have to get 137..more than I was going to do, but maybe???

Do you think the 2022 chart is what they will use for these rooms?


----------



## Lorana

Sandisw said:


> So, I was looking at the 2022 chart for the resort studio for the beginning of December and it is 5 points less than in 2023.  Now I am wondering if I should get a FW even though I won't ever use it if they offer a price discount at 125 points.  With the premium, I'd have to get 137..more than I was going to do, but maybe???
> 
> Do you think the 2022 chart is what they will use for these rooms?


I would assume they would, at least for last resorts the point chart for the year the resort went on sale was the basis for the FW cost (weekly cost +10%).


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

Sandisw said:


> So, I was looking at the 2022 chart for the resort studio for the beginning of December and it is 5 points less than in 2023.  Now I am wondering if I should get a FW even though I won't ever use it if they offer a price discount at 125 points.  With the premium, I'd have to get 137..more than I was going to do, but maybe???
> 
> Do you think the 2022 chart is what they will use for these rooms?



As I understood the fixed weeks were calculated as some sort of average over the life of the contract plus the premium so I'd think it will probably take into account the increase from the start since they already have it planned for 2023.  We might even get some idea if they have any other planned increases coming up.   They do surprise at times though.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

Lorana said:


> I have 3 FWs/GWs at CCV in a Tub Studio.  We picked tub to have the chance at the alternate studio layouts, but have never gotten the room request - it makes me regret not getting a Walk-In Shower Studio instead, since I actually prefer those to tubs!  But that aside, all of my FWs guarantee a week in a tub studio. I just looked up my deeded contracts and none of them include a tub studio in the units I’m actually deeded to (Unit 5C for one and Unit 21C for two of them).



Thanks for looking that up!  My supposition remains that it's because DVC is a point based system that now added a contract option with a guaranteed reservation.   It still doesn't matter where the points are deeded just like any other owner can book any unit no matter where their contract is deeded.    Plus that reservation isn't fixed in stone and can be cancelled with no penalty.

And someday I'm sure you'll get that alternate studio although I'm still waiting for my lakeview request at BRV to be met some year.


----------



## Sandisw

KAT4DISNEY said:


> As I understood the fixed weeks were calculated as some sort of average over the life of the contract plus the premium so I'd think it will probably take into account the increase from the start since they already have it planned for 2023.  We might even get some idea if they have any other planned increases coming up.   They do surprise at times though.



Except Most here have posted it was calculated on the points chart of the year of sale. 

That is why many who own have seen the premium paid wiped out   

Hopefully it will be the same for VGF., which means 2022 chart.  If it is and there is an incentive at 125, we may consider.

If it’s the 2023 chart then it is less likely for us since we know we won’t ever use it.  .


----------



## DL1WDW2

Have all the DVC points for the Riviera been released into the system?
I was wondering if a fixed guaranteed week was still available for this location.
Otherwise would consider for GFV2… but they are also limited, upon release , correct ?


----------



## Sandisw

DL1WDW2 said:


> Have all the DVC points for the Riviera been released into the system?
> I was wondering if a fixed guaranteed week was still available for this location.
> Otherwise would consider for GFV2… but they are also limited, upon release , correct ?



I think. about 50% has been declared at this point.

Bur, not sure if there are any rooms sizes or view that is sold out yet.

Total FW sold can not be more than 35% of that room size for the resort per use day.

Which now brings me to another wonder.  If the  points don’t have to be deeded to the room size, then I wonder if I can buy a week in a deluxe studio using the points required when it first opened??


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

DL1WDW2 said:


> Have all the DVC points for the Riviera been released into the system?
> I was wondering if a fixed guaranteed week was still available for this location.
> Otherwise would consider for GFV2… but they are also limited, upon release , correct ?


They will definitely sell you a fixed week at either property. No room type-week combo has ever sold out for a fixed week at any of the resorts that offer them.


----------



## Robert Stoddart

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> They will definitely sell you a fixed week at either property. No room type-week combo has ever sold out for a fixed week at any of the resorts that offer them.


Week 52 studios at Riviera are sold out, at least according to our guide.


----------



## EYL

Robert Stoddart said:


> Week 52 studios at Riviera are sold out, at least according to our guide.



Same for a Riviera Standard Studio for the typical week of Thanksgiving...  I think it was week 48...?


----------



## DonMacGregor

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> They will definitely sell you a fixed week at either property. No room type-week combo has ever sold out for a fixed week at any of the resorts that offer them.


I learned long ago that "ever" and "never" are two very dangerous words to use around here...


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

Robert Stoddart said:


> Week 52 studios at Riviera are sold out, at least according to our guide.


look at that! Presumably more will come with the next points declaration.


----------



## Sandisw

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> look at that! Presumably more will come with the next points declaration.



They can’t sell more than 35% for any given day but I don’t know if they are required to do that.


----------



## Robert Stoddart

Sandisw said:


> They can’t sell more than 35% for any given day but I don’t know if they are required to do that.


It makes sense that more would be released once they declare more points.  I asked that specifically though and the answer was "once they are gone, they are gone".  We shall see.


----------



## EYL

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> look at that! Presumably more will come with the next points declaration.



When I was selecting my GW and encountered weeks that were sold out, I asked about the next declaration.  My guide told me that all GW's are "declared" at RIV so what's gone is gone.  They cap it at 35%, and I was told that RIV Standard Studios have room for 3 GW per week; Preferred have 9.


----------



## Robert Stoddart

EYL said:


> When I was selecting my GW and encountered weeks that were sold out, I asked about the next declaration.  My guide told me that all GW's are "declared" at RIV so what's gone is gone.  They cap it at 35%, and I was told that RIV Standard Studios have room for 3 GW per week; Preferred have 9.


That aligns with what I've been told. Good to know.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

Sandisw said:


> Except Most here have posted it was calculated on the points chart of the year of sale.
> 
> That is why many who own have seen the premium paid wiped out
> 
> Hopefully it will be the same for VGF., which means 2022 chart.  If it is and there is an incentive at 125, we may consider.
> 
> If it’s the 2023 chart then it is less likely for us since we know we won’t ever use it.  .



I haven't noticed many posts about calculations recently. 

I recall most posts about it back when they first were offered as explaining the calculations over the years.  Since they had done very little adjusting at the time they started offering with Aulani, really nothing much beyond weekends/weekdays, it would mean the calculation would have come out as fairly similar to the week.  But you could see the effect of calculating over the years during the weeks that involved the holidays that are not fixed to a week and day within a week.  However now they've started shifting points across seasons and have added the two seasons.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

Robert Stoddart said:


> It makes sense that more would be released once they declare more points.  I asked that specifically though and the answer was "once they are gone, they are gone".  We shall see.





EYL said:


> When I was selecting my GW and encountered weeks that were sold out, I asked about the next declaration.  My guide told me that all GW's are "declared" at RIV so what's gone is gone.  They cap it at 35%, and I was told that RIV Standard Studios have room for 3 GW per week; Preferred have 9.



Perhaps you both have the same guide!  

This sort of thing was gone thru with CCV.  All sold.   And then a declaration was done and there were more available.    

Very few guides have a good understanding of fixed weeks.    I don't believe it would be possible to have the resort 50% declared and "all fixed weeks declared".  Fixed weeks actually aren't a declaration anyway - just a sales limitation -and what we saw with CCV was that they had to limit the number of weeks sold based to what had been declared.  



DL1WDW2 said:


> Have all the DVC points for the Riviera been released into the system?
> I was wondering if a fixed guaranteed week was still available for this location.
> Otherwise would consider for GFV2… but they are also limited, upon release , correct ?



DVC has never come close to selling out all fixed weeks that they could for the year.  The ones they've come closest to are later in the year - the early December/late December weeks for a few categories.   So the answer to your question somewhat depends on what week you might be interested in, what view, and perhaps when you are looking to buy if it follows CCV where declarations did make a difference in more fixed weeks being available for sale.


----------



## Sandisw

KAT4DISNEY said:


> I haven't noticed many posts about calculations recently.
> 
> I recall most posts about it back when they first were offered as explaining the calculations over the years.  Since they had done very little adjusting at the time they started offering with Aulani, really nothing much beyond weekends/weekdays, it would mean the calculation would have come out as fairly similar to the week.  But you could see the effect of calculating over the years during the weeks that involved the holidays that are not fixed to a week and day within a week.  However now they've started shifting points across seasons and have added the two seasons.



Hopefully, someone who has a fixed week can expand and share more. But I do believe @Lorana has mentioned it is for the first  year point chart?

ETA. I think this thread has the answer! I forgot about it!

https://www.disboards.com/threads/all-about-fixed-weeks-riv-ccv-aul-vgf-poly-charts.3806985/


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

Sandisw said:


> Hopefully, someone who has a fixed week can expand and share more. But I do believe @Lorana has mentioned it is for the first  year point chart?
> 
> ETA. I think this thread has the answer! I forgot about it!
> 
> https://www.disboards.com/threads/all-about-fixed-weeks-riv-ccv-aul-vgf-poly-charts.3806985/



I think you may be confusing the part that the fixed week chart is fixed from inception with the thought that it means it matches the first year of regular charts.


----------



## Sandisw

KAT4DISNEY said:


> I think you may be confusing the part that the fixed week chart is fixed from inception with the thought that it means it matches the first year of regular charts.



I Missed this response. Sounds like it’s the same chart plus the 10%.

https://www.disboards.com/threads/the-vgf-2-pricing-thread.3838921/post-63720209


----------



## Lorana

Sandisw said:


> Hopefully, someone who has a fixed week can expand and share more. But I do believe @Lorana has mentioned it is for the first  year point chart?
> 
> ETA. I think this thread has the answer! I forgot about it!
> 
> https://www.disboards.com/threads/all-about-fixed-weeks-riv-ccv-aul-vgf-poly-charts.3806985/





KAT4DISNEY said:


> I think you may be confusing the part that the fixed week chart is fixed from inception with the thought that it means it matches the first year of regular charts.


I think VGF2 is going to be our first opportunity to find out, since none of the resorts that offer FWs/GWs have had expansions declared in the same condo unit before.  However, the two typically align (inception and first year of charts) - which, presumably, means VGF2 FWs will be the same cost as the 2022 chart.  If they come in at the VGF inception rates, though, and initial price is $207 with some good incentives, even I might be tempted to buy a VGF FW!


----------



## Sandisw

Lorana said:


> I think VGF2 is going to be our first opportunity to find out, since none of the resorts that offer FWs/GWs have had expansions declared in the same condo unit before.  However, the two typically align (inception and first year of charts) - which, presumably, means VGF2 FWs will be the same cost as the 2022 chart.  If they come in at the VGF inception rates, though, and initial price is $207 with some good incentives, even I might be tempted to buy a VGF FW!



So it does sound like the points for your FW did match the chart published. 

I did look back at the VGF chart from 2015 which I think was year 1…the SV studios back then were 125 a week for early December and with the 2022 they are 127 (without the premium)

So, those would not change much if they went back to original charts? But resort studio is the same 127 so we might just do that instead

If the incentives and price are good, we may our plan and just get one since we would be buying with a Dec UY.

Gosh.. I wish they would just announce it!!


----------



## nuhusky123

I can’t imagine dvc would increase riv/aul feb 3 and fail to announce gfv

just a few more days

and if it’s not feb 3 then dvc lacks all reasonable logic and I give up on guessing a date


----------



## Lorana

Sandisw said:


> So it does sound like the points for your FW did match the chart published.


It did.  Initial point chart cost for that week + 10%.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

Sandisw said:


> I Missed this response. Sounds like it’s the same chart plus the 10%.
> 
> https://www.disboards.com/threads/the-vgf-2-pricing-thread.3838921/post-63720209



As I mentioned previously for a lot of weeks of the year that is what it can appear to be because the charts didn't have changes set for upcoming years.   If DVC did know they were going to modify the charts then it should have reflected it.

In theory, with no expected changes DVC would probably take a 6 year average for the week in question as I think it would rotate thru most seasonal changes that could occur (with easter perhaps being an exception?).

To better try and outline with an example: 

Poly's fixed week chart had both weeks 51 and 52 with contract sizes of 206 for standard view and 242 for lakeview.  In 2015 week 51 booked only on points was 175 for standard view and 205 for lakeview.  If it were only based on the 1st year charts then it should have been sold as 192/193 points and 225/226 points instead of 206 and 242.   Week 52 booked alone for 2015 was 193 standard view and 233 lakeview.  A 10% premium on that should have been 212/213 points and 256/257 points instead of 205 and 242. 

I could run thru 2015 weeks 12-16 which were sold for the same points and you'd easily see the variance there as Easter floats thru the weeks.

I have never seen where DVC actually outlined how they calculated the fixed week chart but it wasn't just based on the first years normal point charts.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

Lorana said:


> It did.  Initial point chart cost for that week + 10%.



What weeks do you own Lorana?


----------



## Lorana

KAT4DISNEY said:


> What weeks do you own Lorana?


All at CCV, weeks 44 (This is actually a runDisney week), 47, and 48, in a Studio Tub.  They were all 118 points to purchase.  I bought them in 2020 during the crazy summer incentives that year.


----------



## Lorana

Also, as a note, it was my Guide who told me it was based on opening point chart + 10%.  Whether that was just CCV or just happened to be that way for my FWs, I don't actually know.


----------



## zebsterama

We currently have a March UY at VGF1. If we wanted to buy a GW when VGF2 opens up, is there any correlation between your UY choice and your GW choice?  Can I have a March UY and a December GW?


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

Lorana said:


> All at CCV, weeks 44 (This is actually a runDisney week), 47, and 48, in a Studio Tub.  They were all 118 points to purchase.  I bought them in 2020 during the crazy summer incentives that year.



Thanks!  So in 2017 when CCV opened those weeks in a studio would have been 107 points, 116 points and 107 points respectively.  118, 128 and 118 at a 10% premium if the 1st years charts were used to determine the guaranteed week.   I'd guess the guide was just trying to relay that the fixed week charts were staying the same as when they were first released and not that they were based on the 1st years charts.


----------



## Sandisw

zebsterama said:


> We currently have a March UY at VGF1. If we wanted to buy a GW when VGF2 opens up, is there any correlation between your UY choice and your GW choice?  Can I have a March UY and a December GW?



Yes.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

zebsterama said:


> We currently have a March UY at VGF1. If we wanted to buy a GW when VGF2 opens up, is there any correlation between your UY choice and your GW choice?  Can I have a March UY and a December GW?



You can but they will probably push you to not do that and would either encourage or tell you it has to be a Dec UY.  It doesn't have to be but you might have to push back if that's what you really wanted to do.  With the possibility to cancel and bank points your banking deadlines wouldn't be ideal for it.


----------



## Sandisw

KAT4DISNEY said:


> Thanks!  So in 2017 when CCV opened those weeks in a studio would have been 107 points, 116 points and 107 points respectively.  118, 128 and 118 at a 10% premium if the 1st years charts were used to determine the guaranteed week.   I'd guess the guide was just trying to relay that the fixed week charts were staying the same as when they were first released and not that they were based on the 1st years charts.



So, if the chart in 2017 was 107 and the GW was 118, then that is the same as the chart plus 10%.

At least in that case, it did match and  I have read other reports they matched.

In the end, for VGF, we will see what happens and maybe get more info to clarify.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

Sandisw said:


> So, if the chart in 2017 was 107 and the GW was 118, then that is the same as the chart plus 10%.
> 
> At least in that case, it did match and  I have read other reports they matched.
> 
> In the end, for VGF, we will see what happens and maybe get more info to clarify.



Lorana bought 3 weeks - all of them required her to purchase 118 points.  2 of the weeks would have been 107 points but the one would have been 116 points on the 2017 charts.  That is another display that is was a calculation of averages of some sort when DVC knew the charts would change.  That particular change is Thanksgiving dates.


----------



## CarolMN

zebsterama said:


> We currently have a March UY at VGF1. If we wanted to buy a GW when VGF2 opens up, is there any correlation between your UY choice and your GW choice?  Can I have a March UY and a December GW?





Sandisw said:


> Yes.





KAT4DISNEY said:


> You can but they will probably push you to not do that and would either encourage or tell you it has to be a Dec UY.  It doesn't have to be but you might have to push back if that's what you really wanted to do.  With the possibility to cancel and bank points your banking deadlines wouldn't be ideal for it.


That would mean an additional / new membership.  Wouldn't the guaranteed week have to cost at least the minimum number of points for a new membership?  Maybe that's not a worry for VGF, though.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

CarolMN said:


> That would mean an additional / new membership.  Wouldn't the guaranteed week have to cost at least the minimum number of points for a new membership?  Maybe that's not a worry for VGF, though.



haha - you're right!  So many rules.  So many complications!   And you're also probably right that it won't be a concern for VGF weeks.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

Sandisw said:


> So, if the chart in 2017 was 107 and the GW was 118, then that is the same as the chart plus 10%.
> 
> At least in that case, it did match and  I have read other reports they matched.
> 
> In the end, for VGF, we will see what happens and maybe get more info to clarify.



Since my explanations aren't cutting it: 
https://www.dvcnews.com/index.php/r.../2295-grand-floridian-guaranteed-week-details


----------



## Sandisw

KAT4DISNEY said:


> Since my explanations aren't cutting it:
> https://www.dvcnews.com/index.php/r.../2295-grand-floridian-guaranteed-week-details



Thank you and defines it well and helps to “see” it! 

Based on this, it does  match for week 49. which I hoped it would…assuming this is what is still used!  But, I can see that not all weeks follow exaclty!

Now just need the price to see if it makes sense to purchase more than the 100 we were planning.


----------



## EYL

CarolMN said:


> That would mean an additional / new membership.  Wouldn't the guaranteed week have to cost at least the minimum number of points for a new membership?  Maybe that's not a worry for VGF, though.



We bought a new membership at RIV (new UY) and they allowed us to buy a GW that was worth 130 points.  But we had to buy (at least) another 20 points required to total 150 points for a new membership.  This was the only exception to the rule that a new membership must have 150 points in the master contract (the contract that ends with XXX.000).


----------



## rubybutt

KAT4DISNEY said:


> You can but they will probably push you to not do that and would either encourage or tell you it has to be a Dec UY.  It doesn't have to be but you might have to push back if that's what you really wanted to do.  With the possibility to cancel and bank points your banking deadlines wouldn't be ideal for it.



This is just wrong.  You can have any use year with any fixed week.  They don't care.  Why make stuff up?


----------



## Paul Stupin

rubybutt said:


> This is just wrong.  You can have any use year with any fixed week.  They don't care.  Why make stuff up?


I don’t think it’s unusual for DVC to occasionally try to steer buyers toward specific use years. There are plenty of stories on these boards.


----------



## Sandisw

Paul Stupin said:


> I don’t think it’s unusual for DVC to occasionally try to steer buyers toward specific use years. There are plenty of stories on these boards.



True but not when someone is already an owner. In those cases, they push the same UY so I think ti would be the same for someone wanting a FW.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

rubybutt said:


> This is just wrong.  You can have any use year with any fixed week.  They don't care.  Why make stuff up?



I'm uncertain if your stating I am making this up?  If so I assure you that is not my thing to use the boards to create a false story.  I am sharing what might be told to a buyer.   Fixed weeks are a weird animal to many guides.  Not all will tell a buyer that but it can happen.


----------



## Lorana

KAT4DISNEY said:


> Lorana bought 3 weeks - all of them required her to purchase 118 points.  2 of the weeks would have been 107 points but the one would have been 116 points on the 2017 charts.  That is another display that is was a calculation of averages of some sort when DVC knew the charts would change.  That particular change is Thanksgiving dates.


Actually all three weeks were 107 points in 2017. Week 47 is usually Thanksgiving, but in 2017 it was that rare year where it fell on Week 46. It’s one of the reasons we jumped on it, because it was a bargain (of course that was before the change in Annual Passes made it so that the Sorcerer Pass is not usable over Thanksgiving!).


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

Lorana said:


> Actually all three weeks were 107 points in 2017. Week 47 is usually Thanksgiving, but in 2017 it was that rare year where it fell on Week 46. It’s one of the reasons we jumped on it, because it was a bargain (of course that was before the change in Annual Passes made it so that the Sorcerer Pass is not usable over Thanksgiving!).



Nov 23, 2017 was Thanksgiving (per a google search since I don't recall the dates of Thanksgivings past).  Week 47 in 2017 should have been Nov 19-Nov 26th (using a Redweek calendar).   Week 46 was Nov 12-19th.

Certainly fair I could have confused as I had also been looking at 2015 for Poly but I just double checked and still come up with 116 for week 47 in 2017 CCV studio.


----------



## DVCRad

Sandisw said:


> True but not when someone is already an owner. In those cases, they push the same UY so I think ti would be the same for someone wanting a FW.


We have a September UY but when we bought week 49 at Riviera we had to buy a December UY. I refused and our guide talked to his supervisor and was informed that FW have recommended UY to be sold with them but it is not required. I think FW is a rarity for guides and they just aren’t as familiar with them.


----------



## stwaldman

Sorry for a dumb fw question (and I know it's slightly off topic) but can you modify a fw down to the days you need, or when your modify a fw, do you have to give up the whole reservation and start fresh. We aren't weekly travelers, but we do travel similar times of year every year, so I wasn't sure if people could "game" a fw into a fixed 5 nights, for example. 
  I would assume with the online booking tool this is possible, but I wouldn't know.


----------



## DVCRad

stwaldman said:


> Sorry for a dumb fw question (and I know it's slightly off topic) but can you modify a fw down to the days you need, or when your modify a fw, do you have to give up the whole reservation and start fresh. We aren't weekly travelers, but we do travel similar times of year every year, so I wasn't sure if people could "game" a fw into a fixed 5 nights, for example.
> I would assume with the online booking tool this is possible, but I wouldn't know.


You need to chat with a CM on the website or call in to have it cancelled as the system won't give you all of the points back. If are then within 11 months you can modify it as you need at that time. You are not forced to keep the FW at all. Approximately 12 months before your FW a CM will look at your account and if it has all of your points in it, they will automatically book the week. The week can be cancelled and the rebooked as desired at 11 months.


----------



## Lorana

KAT4DISNEY said:


> Nov 23, 2017 was Thanksgiving (per a google search since I don't recall the dates of Thanksgivings past).  Week 47 in 2017 should have been Nov 19-Nov 26th (using a Redweek calendar).   Week 46 was Nov 12-19th.
> 
> Certainly fair I could have confused as I had also been looking at 2015 for Poly but I just double checked and still come up with 116 for week 47 in 2017 CCV studio.


Oh, no, you’re right.
hmmm, I wonder if the mistake was made because of 2016?  What my guide told me is that they made a mistake when setting the FW prices, as the year they were set, Thanksgiving was Week 46 and it was not realized that was an “off” year, not the week Thanksgiving usually falls on - hence the reason why Week 46 costs 128 and Week 46 costs 118.  (He was very clear to me - though of course he could be wrong - that they didn’t average the cost of the weeks over time but based it on the inception costs. This could also be just for CCV).


----------



## Lorana

stwaldman said:


> Sorry for a dumb fw question (and I know it's slightly off topic) but can you modify a fw down to the days you need, or when your modify a fw, do you have to give up the whole reservation and start fresh. We aren't weekly travelers, but we do travel similar times of year every year, so I wasn't sure if people could "game" a fw into a fixed 5 nights, for example.
> I would assume with the online booking tool this is possible, but I wouldn't know.


You are not allowed to modify a FW. It’s all or nothing. You can within the 11 months cancel and rebook if you want a shorter stay, though there’s always a chance you could lose the booking while rebooking.


----------



## stwaldman

Lorana said:


> You are not allowed to modify a FW. It’s all or nothing. You can witching the 11 months cancel and rebook if you want a shorter stay, though there’s always a chance you could lose the booking while rebooking.


Good to know, and why a fw probably isn't for us.


----------



## DisneyMom_3

Lorana said:


> You are not allowed to modify a FW. It’s all or nothing. You can witching the 11 months cancel and rebook if you want a shorter stay, though there’s always a chance you could lose the booking while rebooking.


That stinks!  
We prefer to travel Friday/Saturday (depending on school and flight schedules) to Saturday.


----------



## Sandisw

DVCRad said:


> We have a September UY but when we bought week 49 at Riviera we had to buy a December UY. I refused and our guide talked to his supervisor and was informed that FW have recommended UY to be sold with them but it is not required. I think FW is a rarity for guides and they just aren’t as familiar with them.



Interesting that would force an owner to have a new membership. To be fair, I only know of one owner outside of these boards with FW, and it was no problem getting it to match the UY they had.  June UY for week in either late November or early December.

Even though we will add our VGF points to our December UY…if I wanted to go with a FW in my Aug UY and they wouldn’t give it to me, it would certainly be a reason to not buy it and just do points instead,,

Of course, I am not sure if I even want it.   What I am now more curious about is where do the extra 10% come from.  Is the owner is deeded that number of points and they come from total declared? Or are they “extra”?


----------



## Lorana

Sandisw said:


> Interesting that would force an owner to have a new membership. To be fair, I only know of one owner outside of these boards with FW, and it was no problem getting it to match the UY they had.  June UY for week in either late November or early December.
> 
> Even though we will add our VGF points to our December UY…if I wanted to go with a FW in my Aug UY and they wouldn’t give it to me, it would certainly be a reason to not buy it and just do points instead,,
> 
> Of course, I am not sure if I even want it.   What I am now more curious about is where do the extra 10% come from.  Is the owner is deeded that number of points and they come from total declared? Or are they “extra”?


The owner is deeded that many points (it’s on my deed), as it is the cost of your week (regardless of how many points the week costs in current points) and if you can cancel the guaranteed reservation, that’s how many points/how much ownership you have at the resort.


----------



## Lorana

stwaldman said:


> Good to know, and why a fw probably isn't for us.





DisneyMom_3 said:


> That stinks!
> We prefer to travel Friday/Saturday (depending on school and flight schedules) to Saturday.


You can always book a Friday/Saturday night and do a continuing reservation, though you’d still need to check out on a Sunday.

Depending on when you go, CCV at least offers runDisney event weeks. So long as runDisney continues operating, you can modify the check-in and check-out days around the special event. That’s why we picked up Week 44/Wine & Dine week. Partly as my husband wants to run the events some day, but also so we could have the flex week over Wine & Food Festival.


----------



## rubybutt

KAT4DISNEY said:


> I'm uncertain if your stating I am making this up?  If so I assure you that is not my thing to use the boards to *create* a false story.  I am sharing what *might be told* to a buyer.   Fixed weeks are a weird animal to many guides.  Not all will tell a buyer that but it can happen.


----------



## rubybutt

Sandisw said:


> Interesting that would force an owner to have a new membership. To be fair, I only know of one owner outside of these boards with FW, and it was no problem getting it to match the UY they had.  June UY for week in either late November or early December.
> 
> Even though we will add our VGF points to our December UY…if I wanted to go with a FW in my Aug UY and they wouldn’t give it to me, it would certainly be a reason to not buy it and just do points instead,,
> 
> Of course, I am not sure if I even want it.   What I am now more curious about is where do the extra 10% come from.  Is the owner is deeded that number of points and they come from total declared? Or are they “extra”?



I always wondered about the extra 10% also.  My best guess (and is a complete guess) is they are deeded points held back in case there is a change in the point structure in the future(now) compared to original.  If not all 10% are needed they would then just go to the forfeit pile and Disney makes some money off of them.  I would say the chances of someone giving up that 10% would be pretty low.  Most would cancel and rebook unless the point chart is favorable to them.


----------



## rubybutt

Lorana said:


> You can always book a Friday/Saturday night and do a continuing reservation, though you’d still need to check out on a Sunday.
> 
> Depending on when you go, CCV at least offers runDisney event weeks. So long as runDisney continues operating, you can modify the check-in and check-out days around the special event. That’s why we picked up Week 44/Wine & Dine week. Partly as my husband wants to run the events some day, but also so we could have the flex week over Wine & Food Festival.


If VGF did the run disney GW I would be all over the new points.  I tried to talk them into it with RIV but it was a no go.  It will probably be the same with VGF.


----------



## Lorana

rubybutt said:


> I always wondered about the extra 10% also.  My best guess (and is a complete guess) is they are deeded points held back in case there is a change in the point structure in the future(now) compared to original.  If not all 10% are needed they would then just go to the forfeit pile and Disney makes some money off of them.  I would say the chances of someone giving up that 10% would be pretty low.  Most would cancel and rebook unless the point chart is favorable to them.


Admittedly, the changes in the point charts have been in my favor, making 2 of my weeks less than the initial cost and the third the same as the initial cost, but I had been willing to "lose" those extra points because the weeks I have our prime holiday season, and I did not want to have the hassle of walking, or chance not getting the week I wanted at 8am 11 months out.  It's partly why if Reflections comes out, we'll probably pick up week 49.  We like visiting in the holiday season, but I really like not having the hassle of trying to get that reservation and being guaranteed to get it year after year.  Now, of course, it's even more worthwhile to keep it, since I am no longer paying a premium for those weeks.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

zebsterama said:


> We currently have a March UY at VGF1. If we wanted to buy a GW when VGF2 opens up, is there any correlation between your UY choice and your GW choice?  Can I have a March UY and a December GW?


You can pick any guarnteed week but if you choose to convert your week into points, they will revert back to your UY.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

Lorana said:


> Oh, no, you’re right.
> hmmm, I wonder if the mistake was made because of 2016?  What my guide told me is that they made a mistake when setting the FW prices, as the year they were set, Thanksgiving was Week 46 and it was not realized that was an “off” year, not the week Thanksgiving usually falls on - hence the reason why Week 46 costs 128 and Week 46 costs 118.  (He was very clear to me - though of course he could be wrong - that they didn’t average the cost of the weeks over time but based it on the inception costs. This could also be just for CCV).



I used to give guides the benefit of the doubt that they actually know about all this stuff as I started with a knowledgeable one.  But I've had a few now over the years and talked with a few more at open houses and it can be surprising what even some long time guides don't know.  In most cases it isn't critical but does mean you can get some incorrect info.  I have no doubt that the charts were not calculated on the basis of the first year but instead that an average was used.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

DVCRad said:


> We have a September UY but when we bought week 49 at Riviera we had to buy a December UY. I refused and our guide talked to his supervisor and was informed that FW have recommended UY to be sold with them but it is not required. I think FW is a rarity for guides and they just aren’t as familiar with them.



100% what I've been saying the whole time.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

That's pretty sad.   You need to reread the post you originally referred to.

DVC boards now just allow people to call others liars?


----------



## DVChris

KAT4DISNEY said:


> DVC boards now just allow people to call others liars?


You're not a liar. My experience when I looked into getting a FW at Copper Creek two months ago was consistent with what you described in your post. I have a March UY and the CM definitely encouraged getting a second UY to match the FW. He was familiar with FW and I believe he was trying to help so that we would have enough time to bank the points if we needed to.


----------



## princesscinderella

zebsterama said:


> We currently have a March UY at VGF1. If we wanted to buy a GW when VGF2 opens up, is there any correlation between your UY choice and your GW choice?  Can I have a March UY and a December GW?


Here’s my experience buying a fixed week.  We have FW 52 at RIV in a standard studio.  They wanted me to have a Dec UY to buy it.  I have a Feb UY but I was in the process of inheriting OKW points with an April UY.  I had to go back and forth with the guide and insist that I wanted the fixed week added to my April UY as I really didn’t want 3 UYs.  I had to give my reasoning that I understand that it is outside my banking window for April UY (Nov 30th) if I needed to cancel it but if I canceled it after my banking window those points would go into holding any way and it wouldn’t matter.  They accepted that I understood exactly how managing the reservation within my April UY would work and agreed to sell it to me.  I did have to fight for it though with about 5 calls back and forth with my guide who didn’t really understand how a fixed week worked, I did however thanks to all the wonderful posters on the DISboards . I also added a small 34 point contract so I could add a Saturday night stay to it if I wanted to or maybe two nights in a tower studio,  I think its 32 points right now for a Saturday night so I added two more points just in case.  We won’t use the FW for probably 7 more years until the kids have flown the coop, but I love that it’s there when I want to use it.  We are thinking of getting a FW too for VGF when they go back on sale maybe for 4th of July week.


----------



## Lorana

KAT4DISNEY said:


> I used to give guides the benefit of the doubt that they actually know about all this stuff as I started with a knowledgeable one.  But I've had a few now over the years and talked with a few more at open houses and it can be surprising what even some long time guides don't know.  In most cases it isn't critical but does mean you can get some incorrect info.  I have no doubt that the charts were not calculated on the basis of the first year but instead that an average was used.


I agree that guides don’t always have the correct information and certainly many don’t understand UY. But the average doesn’t make sense for CCV’s week 47 cost. That is the same cost as weeks that cost 107. Over 50 years, from 2017 to 2067, Week 47 is Thanksgiving 42 times. It makes more sense that it would cost 128 points as week 46 days (which is Thanksgiving week only 8 times). While the reasoning why they made a mistake might be wrong, I think it’s safe to say that with CCV, they did make a mistake on Week 47’s FW cost and priced it as if it were the week after Thanksgiving, not the week of.


----------



## DVCbie-Jeebies

rubybutt said:


> This is just wrong.  You can have any use year with any fixed week.  They don't care.  Why make stuff up?


They do care, and a lot actually. Enough that my guide pushed back something awful when I was wanted a fixed week with my same use year. First he said no because a use year has to be a certain month for a certain week. After I pushed back he said it was because I couldn’t bank if I wanted to cancel so DVC was bein’ oh so nice to look out for me! Finally after some back and forth he got “special permission” from his big boss to get me the same use year. Too many hoops and we told him the process was ridiculous.  Kinda like your post.


----------



## jacec

nuhusky123 said:


> Back to gfv
> 
> next week feb 3 aul/riv go up in price. I’m predicting gfv pricing and or sales start feb 3



I am hoping Feb 3 good news (along with annual passes back for DVC members)


----------



## nuhusky123

jacec said:


> I am hoping Feb 3 good news (along with annual passes back for DVC members)


God yes and annual dvc passes


----------



## DisneyMom_3

jacec said:


> I am hoping Feb 3 good news (along with annual passes back for DVC members)


----------



## RoseGold

FW UY doesn't seem to matter.  There are lots of FW resale with UYs all over the place, even not what you would expect.  There's a week 26 VGF GV, 1,291 points with Feb UY for sale right now on Fidelity haha.


----------



## SusieQ93

Scrolling Instagram and the VGF2 ad is back on my feed (it had switched back to Aulani and Riviera). What does this mean??  grabbing onto any clues as signs of sales starting soon.


----------



## Sandisw

RoseGold said:


> FW UY doesn't seem to matter.  There are lots of FW resale with UYs all over the place, even not what you would expect.  There's a week 26 VGF GV, 1,291 points with Feb UY for sale right now on Fidelity haha.



That might be old. II saw a report on www.DVC news.com that it was taken in ROFR.


----------



## Bjaiken77

I don’t look at this thread much, but now that we are getting closer, does anyone have an updated price prediction?  The poll has been closed for months now.  We now know RIV will go to $207.  Does that give us any more clarity with respect to VGF2?  I know it’s all a guess, but I’m curious.


----------



## Nabas

Bjaiken77 said:


> I don’t look at this thread much, but now that we are getting closer, does anyone have an updated price prediction?  The poll has been closed for months now.  We now know RIV will go to $207.  Does that give us any more clarity with respect to VGF2?  I know it’s all a guess, but I’m curious.


There seems to be 2 camps.

One suggests that as WDW’s flagship hotel, VGF2 will open higher than RIV, maybe as high as $255pp.  But I don’t see anyone predicting $300pp any more.

The other suggests the price will open the same as RIV, $207pp.

I don’t think there’s anyone suggesting VGF2 will open below RIV.

Some have suggested there might be early discounts to encourage strong initial sales but, if offered, these probably won’t be around for long.

Many months ago, my guess was $210 to $225.  I’m now thinking it will open below that.


----------



## Bjaiken77

I guess it all depends on incentives, too.  I don’t want to buy a ton of points, but sometimes the incentives make you feel crazy for not doing it.  I passed on higher incentives at RIV had I bought more points, and I regret doing it.  Of course, that’s always easy to say after you’ve financially recovered from dropping a ton of money.

I need it to be in the $210-$225 range.  At that price point, I’m probably a buyer.  I’m out at $255.


----------



## DKZB

Bjaiken77 said:


> I guess it all depends on incentives, too.  I don’t want to buy a ton of points, but sometimes the incentives make you feel crazy for not doing it.  I passed on higher incentives at RIV had I bought more points, and I regret doing it.  Of course, that’s always easy to say after you’ve financially recovered from dropping a ton of money.
> 
> I need it to be in the $210-$225 range.  At that price point, I’m probably a buyer.  I’m out at $255.



It’s interesting that the ONLY time I felt that was during the recent AUL / RIV / BWV deal in December but I won’t buy RIV because of the resale restrictions, I won’t buy BWV because of the 2042 expiration and I’m concerned AUL as SAP is a bad idea because we will ALWAYS have to wait to 7 months. If we get decent incentives for VGF and no resale restrictions, I may buy more points than I originally intended.


----------



## Bjaiken77

RIV is our hold at all costs contract.  It’s connected to our blue cards at 125 points.  We’ve been lifelong Disney fans, and I can’t see us ever selling that one.  Plus, I love the resort.

VGF2 seems like a pretty safe investment.  I didn’t have the best experience at VGF on my first and only stay, but I’m hoping that was just an anomaly.  At this point in the game, there are only a handful of resorts that even make sense for us.  VGF2 is one of them if it’s priced competitively.


----------



## SusieQ93

Bjaiken77 said:


> I guess it all depends on incentives, too.  I don’t want to buy a ton of points, but sometimes the incentives make you feel crazy for not doing it.  I passed on higher incentives at RIV had I bought more points, and I regret doing it.  Of course, that’s always easy to say after you’ve financially recovered from dropping a ton of money.
> 
> I need it to be in the $210-$225 range.  At that price point, I’m probably a buyer.  I’m out at $255.


I agree. I am very excited about the addition, but no way would I pay $255. I don’t see how they could do that when that was the sold out price. Now that there will be about 2m points for them to sell, seems like that price is unlikely. And I think the people on these boards are probably a group that would pay more than the average Joe. Most of their consumers aren’t super fans on boards, etc. I don’t think those buyers would pay 255 pp. The minimum buy in of 150 pts for new contracts would be almost $40k. That’s a tough sell.


----------



## rubybutt

just got a call from my rep that it should be soon.  It was an unsolicited call saying to expect an email later this week that will gauge interest.  He doesn't know exact sale date.  He doesn't know price.


----------



## DKZB

rubybutt said:


> just got a call from my rep that it should be soon.  It was an unsolicited call saying to expect an email later this week that will gauge interest.  He doesn't know exact sale date.  He doesn't know price.



I heard the guys on the bus were letting people know! I’m surprised it was a guide this time.


----------



## jacec

DKZB said:


> It’s interesting that the ONLY time I felt that was during the recent AUL / RIV / BWV deal in December but I won’t buy RIV because of the resale restrictions, I won’t buy BWV because of the 2042 expiration and I’m concerned AUL as SAP is a bad idea because we will ALWAYS have to wait to 7 months. If we get decent incentives for VGF and no resale restrictions, I may buy more points than I originally intended.



I bought into the AUL deals as we intend to stay at AUL at least every other year,  but yes … they are tough on the 7 months for everything else.  Was a hard incentive to pass on.  Ended up doing a 500 pt contract, wish I split it up into 250 point agreements.


----------



## Paul Stupin

I wish DVC would just put us all out of our misery and release the VGF2 prices!


----------



## nuhusky123

Paul Stupin said:


> I wish DVC would just put us all out of our misery and release the VGF2 prices!


1 more day


----------



## SusieQ93

nuhusky123 said:


> 1 more day


Do you know how the releases typically work? Do they announce a price and date that sales will start? Or does it all happen on one day (announcement and sales start)? Excuse my ignorance. We’re going to be new owners and I haven’t really followed new property releases in the past..


----------



## Sandisw

SusieQ93 said:


> Do you know how the releases typically work? Do they announce a price and date that sales will start? Or does it all happen on one day (announcement and sales start)? Excuse my ignorance. We’re going to be new owners and I haven’t really followed new property releases in the past..



At this point, I have not seen any declaration of rooms so sales can not begin until that happens.

I think we will see price and starting date first. And hopefully it will be this week!!


----------



## SusieQ93

Sandisw said:


> At this point, I have not seen any declaration of rooms so sales can not begin until that happens.
> 
> I think we will see price and starting date first. And hopefully it will be this week!!


Thanks!!


----------



## princesscinderella

nuhusky123 said:


> 1 more day


----------



## Bjaiken77

Just to be clear - we are hoping that we get a VGF2 announcement tomorrow, right?  We don’t know that will happen.  I just was curious if this has moved beyond speculation.


----------



## Nabas

Bjaiken77 said:


> Just to be clear - we are hoping that we get a VGF2 announcement tomorrow, right?  We don’t know that will happen.  I just was curious if this has moved beyond speculation.


Refer to this post:


rubybutt said:


> just got a call from my rep that it should be soon.  It was an unsolicited call saying to expect an email later this week that will gauge interest.  He doesn't know exact sale date.  He doesn't know price.


----------



## DonMacGregor

As has been said about a jillion times now: don't the units need to be declared before they can start selling them?


----------



## Bjaiken77

I think people (I can speak for myself) are just hoping for some information.


----------



## SusieQ93

DonMacGregor said:


> As has been said about a jillion times now: don't the units need to be declared before they can start selling them?


Sounds like that is the correct process. But no need to get rude about it. I’m a novice to purchasing DVC and was simply asking. I haven’t read every single page of this thread.


----------



## DonMacGregor

SusieQ93 said:


> Sounds like that is the correct process. But no need to get rude about it. I’m a novice to purchasing DVC and was simply asking. I haven’t read every single page of this thread.


I wasn't being rude, and I didn't direct the comment at anyone in particular (and definitely not you). This is page 58 of this thread, this discussion has been going on for months, , and my post was #1,154, so I'm not sure why you think I was speaking directly to you (I certainly didn't quote you).


----------



## Nabas

DonMacGregor said:


> As has been said about a jillion times now: don't the units need to be declared before they can start selling them?


I think Disney could announce a starting sales date and an opening price without actually declaring units.


----------



## Sandisw

Bjaiken77 said:


> Just to be clear - we are hoping that we get a VGF2 announcement tomorrow, right?  We don’t know that will happen.  I just was curious if this has moved beyond speculation.



Still speculation that we will hear but the info from a guide saying an email would be coming this week does seem to indicate at least we might get at least something like a price and when they will start.


----------



## nuhusky123

Will sales start Thur, probably not.  Perhaps but probably not for reasons stated

could they announce pricing and a sales date. Yes more likely than sales starting, may not happen but sure would make a ton of sense given aul/riv goes up in price and new pricing sheets will be published. publishing something more concrete about gfv makes all kinds of sense Thursday 

could dvc do none of the above, sure


----------



## TinkAgainU

Do you think they want to release prices BEFORE or AFTER the current excitement in Eastern Europe.  Man, I bet somebody is sad to have to make that decision ...


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

TinkAgainU said:


> Do you think they want to release prices BEFORE or AFTER the current excitement in Eastern Europe.  Man, I bet somebody is sad to have to make that decision ...


I doubt it will change their pricing plans. Their sales expectations perhaps, but not their pricing plans.


----------



## Bjaiken77

I think DVC would release information if they heard some of the conversations around our house.  I’ve come to realize we have no convictions at all.  The following has been thrown about:

1.  “We aren’t going to buy if the price is above $225.”

2.  “Well, maybe we’ll buy at a higher price, but just not as many points.”

3.  “Let’s buy as many points as we can to capitalize on those incentives.”

We apparently have no code, so at this point, I just want DVC to ease my neurotic tendencies.


----------



## nuhusky123

Bjaiken77 said:


> I think DVC would release information if they heard some of the conversations around our house.  I’ve come to realize we have no convictions at all.  The following has been thrown about:
> 
> 1.  “We aren’t going to buy if the price is above $225.”
> 
> 2.  “Well, maybe we’ll buy at a higher price, but just not as many points.”
> 
> 3.  “Let’s buy as many points as we can to capitalize on those incentives.”
> 
> We apparently have no code, so at this point, I just want DVC to ease my neurotic tendencies.


By chance do have to run away from the dvc sales kiosk people so you don’t give them Your wallet?


----------



## DisneyMom_3

Bjaiken77 said:


> I think DVC would release information if they heard some of the conversations around our house.  I’ve come to realize we have no convictions at all.  The following has been thrown about:
> 
> 1.  “We aren’t going to buy if the price is above $225.”
> 
> 2.  “Well, maybe we’ll buy at a higher price, but just not as many points.”
> 
> 3.  “Let’s buy as many points as we can to capitalize on those incentives.”
> 
> We apparently have no code, so at this point, I just want DVC to ease my neurotic tendencies.


This sounds like the conversations I have with myself!  (My hubby already thinks I’m crazy when it comes to Disney, so I have to keep these thoughts to myself!)


----------



## SusieQ93

DisneyMom_3 said:


> This sounds like the conversations I have with myself!  (My hubby already thinks I’m crazy when it comes to Disney, so I have to keep these thoughts to myself!)


Sounds like me! My husband has agreed we’ll get VGF2. He has no idea the small contract I’m already plotting for the Disneyland Hotel Tower. Or that I’ve already upped what I think we need for VGF2 in my head to 175 from 150. One bridge at a time.


----------



## DonMacGregor

Nabas said:


> I think Disney could announce a starting sales date and an opening price without actually declaring units.


Oh they could definitely do that and I’m sure they will.


----------



## MICKIMINI

nuhusky123 said:


> By chance do have to run away from the dvc sales kiosk people so you don’t give them Your wallet?


My DH's paycheck goes directly into Disney's account LOL!


----------



## MICKIMINI

DisneyMom_3 said:


> This sounds like the conversations I have with myself!  (My hubby already thinks I’m crazy when it comes to Disney, so I have to keep these thoughts to myself!)


That is why we are here...we understand!


----------



## Sandisw

VGF is back up in the website. It allows you to join the interest list.  

So, hopefully it really is soon we get info!


----------



## DeeBee3

Sandisw said:


> VGF is back up in the website. It allows you to join the interest list.
> 
> So, hopefully it really is soon we get info!




How do you find the interest list???


----------



## Sandisw

DeeBee3 said:


> How do you find the interest list???



Go to the add on tool on the website. The graphic is back and it said to click to join.

So I did and it said I’d hear from a guide in the next day or so!


----------



## DisneyMom_3

Sandisw said:


> Go to the add on tool on the website. The graphic is back and it said to click to join.
> 
> So I did and it said I’d hear from a guide in the next day or so!


I was just coming here to say the same thing!


----------



## Bjaiken77

I just signed up.  Hopefully, we get some answers soon!


----------



## Nabas

I’m I the only one who thinks the more interest we show, the higher the starting price will be?


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

Don’t expect pricing today. The official pricing document was updated and Grand Floridian did not change


----------



## Wedgeout

The more the “interest” the higher the price.  lol


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

Nabas said:


> I’m I the only one who thinks the more interest we show, the higher the starting price will be?


I don’t know about the higher the starting price, but definitely the worse the incentive


----------



## fumanchu2488

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> Don’t expect pricing today. The official pricing document was updated and Grand Floridian did not change
> View attachment 644167


Or...... The price is going to be $255/point.

I am skeptical because they are showing the new VGF in the 'limited availability' section on the website and not on the top.  

My last second price guess is $225.


----------



## Sandisw

Nabas said:


> I’m I the only one who thinks the more interest we show, the higher the starting price will be?



I plan to let them know I am interested but not if the price is still $255 but if it’s similar to RIV, sign me up!!

Plus, we diehards here are not the target group. They need the new buyers to sell all those points!


----------



## Sandisw

fumanchu2488 said:


> Or...... The price is going to be $255/point.
> 
> I am skeptical because they are showing the new VGF in the 'limited availability' section on the website and not on the top.
> 
> My last second price guess is $225.



Except the put the graphic out and left out the pricing on purpose.

If it is going to be $255, it would have been left there…I think it will be lower and really hope it’s similar to RIV.

I want more points and DH is on board with VGF!!


----------



## Chuck96

I don't see the internet list option.  Probably for the better.


----------



## Sandisw

I got the call from the guide. No news today but will now call as soon as he gets info.  Didn’t have any idea when.

Let him know our interest will be based on price and incentives as we love RIV and will consider more there if the price difference is large.


----------



## hhisc16

Sandisw said:


> I got the call from the guide. No news today but will now call as soon as he gets info.  Didn’t have any idea when.
> 
> Let him know our interest will be based on price and incentives as we love RIV and will consider more there if the price difference is large.


Wow that was fast!
I wonder if they are using the interest to see where to gauge the starting price...


----------



## nuhusky123

hhisc16 said:


> Wow that was fast!
> I wonder if they are using the interest to see where to gauge the starting price...


Correct if wrong but isn’t the add on tool for existing members only?

i dont think dvc has any expectation to sell 2,000,000 points to existing members. The primary sales target will be new to dvc buyers and they have no way to express an interest via the tool


----------



## stwaldman

nuhusky123 said:


> Correct if wrong but isn’t the add on tool for existing members only?
> 
> i dont think dvc has any expectation to sell 2,000,000 points to existing members. The primary sales target will be new to dvc buyers and they have no way to express an interest via the tool


I would guess they are not basing pricing for a half billion dollar's worth of points based on how many existing members stalked the site quickly enough to submit an add on request. We're all just doing their marketing for them by sending a bunch of people to the website to create their call list for them


----------



## SusieQ93

nuhusky123 said:


> Correct if wrong but isn’t the add on tool for existing members only?
> 
> i dont think dvc has any expectation to sell 2,000,000 points to existing members. The primary sales target will be new to dvc buyers and they have no way to express an interest via the tool


Yeah, I’m not currently a member. When I look at the DVC site today, it looks exactly the same as yesterday. Although I did already reach out a while back requesting info once it’s available so they’ve got their market research from me too I suppose  I still just see Riviera and Aulani on the main page.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

SusieQ93 said:


> Yeah, I’m not currently a member. When I look at the DVC site today, it looks exactly the same as yesterday. Although I did already reach out a while back requesting info once it’s available so they’ve got their market research from me too I suppose  I still just see Riviera and Aulani on the main page.


Interesting. I see a general public VGF page that was there and then was gone and is now back again.

https://disneyvacationclub.disney.go.com/villas-at-grand-floridian-resort-and-spa


----------



## Sandisw

hhisc16 said:


> Wow that was fast!
> I wonder if they are using the interest to see where to gauge the starting price...



No I don’t think this will make a difference in price. What I am thinking. And just a guess here.. that they may be trying to see how many existing owners want points so they can compare to what they already have deeded to the current building

Remember, new points for VGf2 can not be used for any reservations before the opening date of rooms but the current points can.

So, if the demand from current owners is a lot more than what they could sell immediately, they might just wait until they declare new rooms and new points to sell to anyone.

But, if they can make it work, what a great way to spark some initial sales with current owners!!

And before anyone asks, IMO, it won’t come with a higher price for the privilege.


----------



## SusieQ93

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> Interesting. I see a general public VGF page that was there and then was gone and is now back again.
> 
> https://disneyvacationclub.disney.go.com/villas-at-grand-floridian-resort-and-spa


I do see that page again! You just have to navigate to it. For a few days on the main page, it was showing VGF2 coming soon. And I was getting Instagram ads. Then it switched back to Rivera and Aulani on the main page and the Instagram ads switched too. I now see VGF2 on Instagram ads again but main web page still shows Riveria/Aulani. I have a 7- month old who only contact naps, lol. So this is my hobby because scrolling through the news on my phone for hours a day turns out to be bad for one’s mental health


----------



## TinkAgainU

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> Interesting. I see a general public VGF page that was there and then was gone and is now back again.
> 
> https://disneyvacationclub.disney.go.com/villas-at-grand-floridian-resort-and-spa



This link works for non-DVC members to get on the "sell it to me" list


----------



## Wedgeout

Fight your Add On Fever. Don’t show interest. Even if you are going to buy. Beat them at their own marketing ploy. Doubt they care much about current members. Just sales stats.


----------



## RoseGold

I've been sticking to my $275 prediction, but the new BLT pricing today (2/3) is the first sign I've seen of prices lowering.  $197 for 300 points, existing members!  That's crazy disruptive to the whole resale market.  Why buy VGF resale for $190 or Poly resale for $180 when BLT direct is $197.  And it makes no sense because Disney just did buybacks for BLT in the 170s and 180s.  Maybe y'all were right and VGF is coming in near to RIV.

Disney is coming in hot with the competitive pricing, resale is going to have to dive to keep up.


----------



## nuhusky123

RoseGold said:


> I've been sticking to my $275 prediction, but the new BLT pricing today (2/3) is the first sign I've seen of prices lowering.  $197 for 300 points, existing members!  That's crazy disruptive to the whole resale market.  Why buy VGF resale for $190 or Poly resale for $180 when BLT direct is $197.  And it makes no sense because Disney just did buybacks for BLT in the 170s and 180s.  Maybe y'all were right and VGF is coming in near to RIV.
> 
> Disney is coming in hot with the competitive pricing, resale is going to have to dive to keep up.



where can I see these blt incentives/pricing?

just in case gfv is a flop blt may be a nice option


----------



## rubybutt

RoseGold said:


> I've been sticking to my $275 prediction, but the new BLT pricing today (2/3) is the first sign I've seen of prices lowering.  $197 for 300 points, existing members!  That's crazy disruptive to the whole resale market.  Why buy VGF resale for $190 or Poly resale for $180 when BLT direct is $197.  And it makes no sense because Disney just did buybacks for BLT in the 170s and 180s.  Maybe y'all were right and VGF is coming in near to RIV.
> 
> Disney is coming in hot with the competitive pricing, resale is going to have to dive to keep up.


Where did you see that pricing for BLT ?!?!?


----------



## stwaldman

rubybutt said:


> Where did you see that pricing for BLT ?!?!?


dvcnews.com


----------



## BWV Dreamin

Is that price only if purchasing 300 or more points? What is it if you want less than 300?


----------



## stwaldman

BWV Dreamin said:


> Is that price only if purchasing 300 or more points? What is it if you want less than 300?


there are tiered incentives. the 200 point one and 250 are actually pretty significant too. clearly a change in approach from disney right now on the sales side.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

stwaldman said:


> there are tiered incentives. the 200 point one and 250 are actually pretty significant too. clearly a change in approach from disney right now on the sales side.


Thanks. Still that is a hefty number to initially purchase. Will be fun to see how it all plays out.


----------



## Sandisw

BWV Dreamin said:


> Thanks. Still that is a hefty number to initially purchase. Will be fun to see how it all plays out.



True, but even for existing members, 200 points is now down to $202.

That is huge and brings RIV and it’s a sold out resort without a new 2 million points to sell.

Definitely going to be interesting going forward !!


----------



## Bjaiken77

I still think this should be happening today.  What’s the point of posting that a cast member will call you in the next 48 hours if they have nothing to say?  First thing people are going to want to know is the price.


----------



## TinkB278

Bjaiken77 said:


> I still think this should be happening today.  What’s the point of posting that a cast member will call you in the next 48 hours if they have nothing to say?  First thing people are going to want to know is the price.


I don’t understand this either. Any other information I would want to know is already available online. A guide already called me in response to putting my name on the interest list but I’m working and am not planning on calling back until more details come out because until then, what is there to discuss?


----------



## fumanchu2488

Exactly. I need three things answered.

What is the price?
When can I buy?
When can I stay?

We are planning an early 2023 trip and would like more points.  If I don’t get more info soon then I will have to buy more RIV points so I can get them loaded and used in the next month.


----------



## zebsterama

A little off topic .... we are currently VGF points holders .... we do not have "a guide".
We bought resale, never talked to one.

If/when VGF opens up, do we already have a guide associated with our current contract somehow, or is it whoever picks up the phone that day wins our business? Seriously ... does it really matter???

If yes, it does really matter -- can someone please PM me a guide that they would recommend?

Thanks!


----------



## DonMacGregor

Bjaiken77 said:


> I still think this should be happening today.  What’s the point of posting that a cast member will call you in the next 48 hours if they have nothing to say?  First thing people are going to want to know is the price.


So they can pitch you on another resort? You showed interest, that's all a salesman cares about. They'll sell you what they have, not what you need or want.


----------



## tidefan

All this is actually pushing us to think about unloading our VGF points.  We are VGF1 owners and primary book studios every couple of years.  However, we want the dedicated VGF building and not the new Big Pine Key renos.  Our feeling is that competition will be so high for the 47 original VGF studios by adding all these new points into the existing Association that it will be difficult to get into the original building, and if we can't do that.  What's the point. 

Wonder if they'd trade our VGF points for more BLT points


----------



## KVacc

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> Don’t expect pricing today. The official pricing document was updated and Grand Floridian did not change
> View attachment 644167


Where is this document located?


----------



## SusieQ93

tidefan said:


> All this is actually pushing us to think about unloading our VGF points.  We are VGF1 owners and primary book studios every couple of years.  However, we want the dedicated VGF building and not the new Big Pine Key renos.  Our feeling is that competition will be so high for the 47 original VGF studios by adding all these new points into the existing Association that it will be difficult to get into the original building, and if we can't do that.  What's the point.
> 
> Wonder if they'd trade our VGF points for more BLT points


That could definitely be true. I don’t know what other buyer’s preferences would be. But one of the reasons I am personally so excited about this addition is that these studios are different in that there’s two real queen beds and the square footage is bigger than the other studios. Granted now that the Murphy beds are being added that’s not quite such a big deal. But I found the idea of the pullout sofas in the original studios off-putting and since I envision us typically booking studios that was a big deal to me. I know some are upset about the loss of the kitchenettes, but that doesn’t matter to me personally so much. Plenty of easy things that don’t need heated for breakfast which is the only meal we’ll ever do in the room. I could totally be the minority, but just food for thought. You could always wait and see what the impact is before you dump your points.


----------



## DVCbie-Jeebies

All y’all folks talkin’ ‘bout how hard deluxe studios will be to book, but honestly if I’m into studios is a mini fridge and microwave really that big a selling point/draw? My husband and me just came back from a week in a VGF studio and the new building is so much more centrally located, closer to bigger pool which we spent more time at then the slide/kiddie one, restaurants, main lobby, the old building felt a little set off from all the happenings. Not a giant distance but if given the choice, I’m guessin’ most folks will want “location, location, location” as VGF owners/fans who like to poo-poo the Riviera like to remind us. When we buy in it’ll be to stay at then new rooms.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

zebsterama said:


> A little off topic .... we are currently VGF points holders .... we do not have "a guide".
> We bought resale, never talked to one.
> 
> If/when VGF opens up, do we already have a guide associated with our current contract somehow, or is it whoever picks up the phone that day wins our business? Seriously ... does it really matter???
> 
> If yes, it does really matter -- can someone please PM me a guide that they would recommend?
> 
> Thanks!


If you call the person who answers will (usually) become your guide.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

tidefan said:


> Our feeling is that competition will be so high for the 47 original VGF studios by adding all these new points into the existing Association that it will be difficult to get into the original building, and if we can't do that.


I’m guessing that’s correct.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

KVacc said:


> Where is this document located?


It’s linked at the bottom of every page of the DVC site, look for the one that says “UK Purchasers”


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

DVCbie-Jeebies said:


> All y’all folks talkin’ ‘bout how hard deluxe studios will be to book, but honestly if I’m into studios is a mini fridge and microwave really that big a selling point/draw? My husband and me just came back from a week in a VGF studio and the new building is so much more centrally located, closer to bigger pool which we spent more time at then the slide/kiddie one, restaurants, main lobby, the old building felt a little set off from all the happenings. Not a giant distance but if given the choice, I’m guessin’ most folks will want “location, location, location” as VGF owners/fans who like to poo-poo the Riviera like to remind us. When we buy in it’ll be to stay at then new rooms.


I personally think there are going to be lots of people in both camps but there will be 4X as many of the new studios as the old ones and that’s why I think the old ones will sell out faster.

A lot of people prefer Kidani to Jambo but Jambo sells out way faster because it has far fewer rooms.


----------



## tidefan

SusieQ93 said:


> That could definitely be true. I don’t know what other buyer’s preferences would be. But one of the reasons I am personally so excited about this addition is that these studios are different in that there’s two real queen beds and the square footage is bigger than the other studios. Granted now that the Murphy beds are being added that’s not quite such a big deal. But I found the idea of the pullout sofas in the original studios off-putting and since I envision us typically booking studios that was a big deal to me. I know some are upset about the loss of the kitchenettes, but that doesn’t matter to me personally so much. Plenty of easy things that don’t need heated for breakfast which is the only meal we’ll ever do in the room. I could totally be the minority, but just food for thought. You could always wait and see what the impact is before you dump your points.


I just wish that they would have done this similar to BRV and CCV and created a separate condo association.  I bet they didn't want to do this as they could sell for less years with the new contracts...


----------



## Nabas

DVCbie-Jeebies said:


> All y’all folks talkin’ ‘bout how hard deluxe studios will be to book, but honestly if I’m into studios is a mini fridge and microwave really that big a selling point/draw?


A microwave and minifridge are very important for us.

How else are we going to refrigerate and reheat our leftover Giordano's pizza!


----------



## Sandisw

tidefan said:


> I just wish that they would have done this similar to BRV and CCV and created a separate condo association.  I bet they didn't want to do this as they could sell for less years with the new contracts...



I do think that they did it this way because it is probably an easier process to get going as the current POS allows for additional builds vs. setting up a brand new one.  And, by having it the same, they can sell by touting all the the current VGF can offer folks.

When they added CCV as new, it had all room sizes so they didn't need to relate it to BRV...not to mention, the end dates of those two resorts were vastly different.


----------



## SusieQ93

tidefan said:


> I just wish that they would have done this similar to BRV and CCV and created a separate condo association.  I bet they didn't want to do this as they could sell for less years with the new contracts...


Totally get your concerns! If you already own points, I can understand why you’d feel slighted to have a bunch of new competition for the existing rooms or even just anxiety about what changes this could bring. However, playing devil’s advocate one of the reasons I didn’t buy VGF resale before was I heard how hard it could be for owners to book studios even 11 months out during certain times (fall - December which happen to be my favorite times to go). Now I have no idea if that’s true or if it was that big of a problem, but the plus side for original owners who want studios is that there could potentially be more availability and less anxiety with booking 11 months out. I was never going to be the person walking a reservation or something like that. Spending all that money to have to deal with that stress was also off-putting to me.


----------



## KTownRaider

DVCbie-Jeebies said:


> All y’all folks talkin’ ‘bout how hard deluxe studios will be to book, but honestly if I’m into studios is a mini fridge and microwave really that big a selling point/draw?


It's not just the mini fridge/microwave that make the original deluxe studios more attractive to me over the new 'resort studios', it's the split bathroom too.   As a current owner though, I hope most people feel like you do.


----------



## nuhusky123

KTownRaider said:


> It's not just the mini/fridge/microwave that make the original deluxe studios more attractive to me over the new 'resort studios', it's the split bathroom too.   As a current owner though, I hope most people feel like you do.


I will say the deluxe shower situation is much better than resort studios


----------



## SusieQ93

nuhusky123 said:


> I will say the deluxe shower situation is much better than resort studios


Totally forgot about the showers. That is a big plus for the deluxe studios vs resort. Although whenever I talked about that before like for poly which we considered buying, my husband didn’t get why I thought that was so great. We also have a baby and it will be a very, very long time before we can both get ready at the same time anyway.


----------



## nuhusky123

It’s not just having two showers it’s that the deluxe rooms have a standing shower vs just a tub shower. I’m not a fan of tub showers


----------



## Nabas

SusieQ93 said:


> However, playing devil’s advocate one of the reasons I didn’t buy VGF resale before was I heard how hard it could be for owners to book studios even 11 months out during certain times (fall - December which happen to be my favorite times to go). Now I have no idea if that’s true or if it was that big of a problem, but the plus side for original owners who want studios is that there could potentially be more availability and less anxiety with booking 11 months out.


Yes, getting a VGF1 Studio reservation is very difficult.

Having access to 200 new studios at VGF2 should completely change the situation for December.  Just look at PVB, which still has studios available for most of December.

But I understand the trepidation of those who prefer 1BR and 2BR.


----------



## Bjaiken77

So I take it today was a big womp-womp in terms of pricing.


----------



## nuhusky123

Bjaiken77 said:


> So I take it today was a big womp-womp in terms of pricing.


Yup


----------



## kdm31091

It’s kind of weird they posted the link to get a call when there really is no information to receive


----------



## KTownRaider

Bjaiken77 said:


> So I take it today was a big womp-womp in terms of pricing.


It was an exciting day, just at the wrong property- BLT.  This anticipation for VGF2 pricing feels a bit like Waiting for Godot...


----------



## SusieQ93

KTownRaider said:


> It's not just the mini fridge/microwave that make the original deluxe studios more attractive to me over the new 'resort studios', it's the split bathroom too.   As a current owner though, I hope most people feel like you do.


I have to say as an owner who prefers the deluxe studios, you should be on here using some reverse psychology talking up the resort studios  you’re making good points for the deluxe studios when I thought the resort studios were preferable


----------



## TinkB278

I’m still surprised the point cost is the same between the two types of studios given the lack of kitchenette and split bathroom. I know the resort studios are a bit larger but it still doesn’t seem like enough to justify the high points chart.


----------



## nuhusky123

TinkB278 said:


> I’m still surprised the point cost is the same between the two types of studios given the lack of kitchenette and split bathroom. I know the resort studios are a bit larger but it still doesn’t seem like enough to justify the high points chart.


I’d agree with that. I think 1 point less for resorts would have been more appropriate. could argue two queens and bigger room makes up for one of those amenities not being there


----------



## TinkB278

nuhusky123 said:


> I’d agree with that. I think 1 point less for resorts would have been more appropriate. could argue two queens and bigger room makes up for one of those amenities not being there


Are the beds bigger? I thought all dvc studios had queens?


----------



## SusieQ93

TinkB278 said:


> Are the beds bigger? I thought all dvc studios had queens?


Only the studios at OKW have two real queen beds. At the other studios, there’s one real queen bed plus a pullout sofa or the ones being refurbished and riviera have a Murphy bed instead of the pullout sofa. I think two real queen beds is way better than a pullout sofa. I wouldn’t want anyone spending the vacation sleeping on a pullout sofa really. But if you are traveling with only 2 people and staying in studios, it’s likely that this doesn’t matter to you.


----------



## DisneyMom_3

TinkB278 said:


> Are the beds bigger? I thought all dvc studios had queens?


The Resort Studios have two actual queen beds (like the hotel room) where the Deluxe Studios have one queen bed and a queen-size Murphy sofa bed.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

The best way to explain the difference in the beds IMO is that the Resort studios will always have 2 beds and a couch available where the Deluxe studios you have to pick the 2nd bed or the couch at any given moment.

Also Disney uses 2” thicker mattresses on dedicated beds then they do on wall beds.


----------



## Wedgeout

As we wait for pricing. Sorry,  I still can’t understand why these DVC Hotel Rooms are being called “Studios”. Without the kitchenette they are just Hotel Rooms that are booked with DVC points. Two “Real” beds doesn’t make it a Studio. What’s next.? Perhaps DVC Pop Century Hotel Studios?


----------



## Matty B13

Wedgeout said:


> As we wait for pricing. Sorry,  I still can’t understand why these DVC Hotel Rooms are being called “Studios”. Without the kitchenette they are just Hotel Rooms that are booked with DVC points. Two “Real” beds doesn’t make it a Studio. What’s next.? Perhaps DVC Pop Century Hotel Studios?


It will be "The Deluxe Villas at Pop Century".........


----------



## Einstein509

DVCbie-Jeebies said:


> I’m guessin’ most folks will want “location, location, location” as VGF owners/fans who like to poo-poo the Riviera like to remind us.


LOL!  That has been my mantra.....poo-poo the Riviera as much as possible.


----------



## Jelly563

along those lines,  I fear that most contracts will be 100pts or less. That means more contract owners and mostly studio people.


----------



## Nabas

Jelly563 said:


> along those lines,  I fear that most contracts will be 100pts or less. That means more contract owners and mostly studio people.


My guess is that VGF2, like other new DVC resorts, will mostly be bought by first-time direct buyers.  They will be motivated (by Disney) to buy 150 points.

But since VGF2 is nothing but studios, it makes sense that these will be mostly studio people.


----------



## Marionnette

Nabas said:


> My guess is that VGF2, like other new DVC resorts, will mostly be bought by first-time direct buyers.  They will be motivated (by Disney) to buy 150 points.
> 
> But since VGF2 is nothing but studios, it makes sense that these will be mostly studio people.


I don't think that VGF2 will be marketed as "studios only". They're going to present it as the full complement of VGF options from resort studio to grand villa. There will surely be people purchasing enough VGF2 points to book those larger villas. My concern is that there will be just enough of them to make booking the limited number of larger villas a real challenge.


----------



## DisneyMom_3

Nabas said:


> My guess is that VGF2, like other new DVC resorts, will mostly be bought by first-time direct buyers.  They will be motivated (by Disney) to buy 150 points.
> 
> But since VGF2 is nothing but studios, it makes sense that these will be mostly studio people.


I hope so!  Being a VGF owner, I’m nervous about the 1 bedroom and 2 bedroom availability.


----------



## TinkB278

oh okay, I didn’t know if the other studios just had full sized beds and I didn’t realize it. With them putting in queen sized Murphy beds in all resorts going forward I still don’t see how the two real beds is a huge perk.


----------



## HIRyeDVC

DisneyMom_3 said:


> I hope so!  Being a VGF owner, I’m nervous about the 1 bedroom and 2 bedroom availability.


This is why there’s BLT!


----------



## KayKayJS

DisneyMom_3 said:


> I hope so!  Being a VGF owner, I’m nervous about the 1 bedroom and 2 bedroom availability.



If we bought, we would be buying VGF just for studio purposes. Would be first time buyer. Made a mistake in not buying resale during 2020.


----------



## DisneyMom_3

HIRyeDVC said:


> This is why there’s BLT!


That makes the most sense! For those that want to be able to book something other than studios, the guides can steer them to BLT if they are concerned like I am about securing larger rooms. 
The new incentives are good, but BLT is my least favorite monorail resort. (They did have me contemplating it though if VGF2 comes in as high as some think.) The extra bathroom is definitely a plus as are those theme park views, but the ambiance just isn't the same as VGF or PVB in my opinion. I will gladly stay there if that is what is available, but don't feel like I need the 11 month advantage since it wouldn't be my first choice. I'm sure as owner, you feel differently about BLT though!


----------



## DisneyMom_3

fumanchu2488 said:


> Exactly. I need three things answered.
> 
> What is the price?
> When can I buy?
> When can I stay?
> 
> We are planning an early 2023 trip and would like more points.  If I don’t get more info soon then I will have to buy more RIV points so I can get them loaded and used in the next month.


Exactly what I asked when they called me yesterday. "Soon" was all the guide could say.

I just booked a December trip a few weeks ago and NEED more points to complete my stay! Just take my money already!!! HAHA!


----------



## HIRyeDVC

DisneyMom_3 said:


> That makes the most sense! For those that want to be able to book something other than studios, the guides can steer them to BLT if they are concerned like I am about securing larger rooms.
> The new incentives are good, but BLT is my least favorite monorail resort. (They did have me contemplating it though if VGF2 comes in as high as some think.) The extra bathroom is definitely a plus as are those theme park views, but the ambiance just isn't the same as VGF or PVB in my opinion. I will gladly stay there if that is what is available, but don't feel like I need the 11 month advantage since it wouldn't be my first choice. I'm sure as owner, you feel differently about BLT though!


I live in Hawaii so the Poly is an automatic NO for me. VGF is nice but the points chart is way too high and the room options too low. And the walk to MK is farther. BLT, while some consider sterile, is perfect in terms of room layout. I’m hoping that the upcoming refurb will blow away the new Riviera rooms. As an owner, the biggest advantage is securing the lower point standard view rooms, which sometimes gives both lake and theme park views.


----------



## Bjaiken77

DisneyMom_3 said:


> Exactly what I asked when they called me yesterday. "Soon" was all the guide could say.
> 
> I just booked a December trip a few weeks ago and NEED more points to complete my stay! Just take my money already!!! HAHA!



So you got a call already?  I still have not, but I’m guessing it’ll be in the next 24 hours now. If there isn’t a price or on sale date, I think the call will be pretty quick.


----------



## Jelly563

We stayed in a BLT gv. Best trip yet. watching the electric water parade from the balcony, that view and same floor as the lounge (when it was open / functional pre covid) unbeatable. Idk why they say it is sterile, it's so close to the magic how can u not feel it. Slight voyage to contemporary for provisions or whatever and u feel like your in the parks.


----------



## DisneyMom_3

HIRyeDVC said:


> I live in Hawaii so the Poly is an automatic NO for me. VGF is nice but the points chart is way too high and the room options too low. And the walk to MK is farther. BLT, while some consider sterile, is perfect in terms of room layout. I’m hoping that the upcoming refurb will blow away the new Riviera rooms. As an owner, the biggest advantage is securing the lower point standard view rooms, which sometimes gives both lake and theme park views.


Hawaii - how fun!! I can see how Poly wouldn't appeal to you. We are a family of 5, so I like having the option to squeeze into a studio if needed for a quick trip. We did this our last trip to save points for the Grand Villa for our next trip. We stayed at Poly and it was tight, but doable.  
I love how DVC offers something for everyone though! And, each vacation can feel so different just by booking at a different property. If the refurbishment blows away the Riviera rooms, hopefully I can still get a room there now and then.


----------



## HIRyeDVC

Jelly563 said:


> We stayed in a BLT gv. Best trip yet. watching the electric water parade from the balcony, that view and same floor as the lounge (when it was open / functional pre covid) unbeatable. Idk why they say it is sterile, it's so close to the magic how can u not feel it. Slight voyage to contemporary for provisions or whatever and u feel like your in the parks.


I couldn’t agree more! Other resorts give you a great view of MK. BLT and the Contemporary makes you feel like you’re still in it!


----------



## DisneyMom_3

Bjaiken77 said:


> So you got a call already?  I still have not, but I’m guessing it’ll be in the next 24 hours now. If there isn’t a price or on sale date, I think the call will be pretty quick.


You haven't missed much. LOL! I'm not really sure why the guide called. (My guide was off yesterday, so another guide called instead.) He didn't have any new information and just kept repeating "Soon" (with excitement). When I asked how soon, he said they should be available for booking in Spring 2022 (which we've known since they made the announcement over 9 months ago). Hopefully, we get more information "soon"! LOL!


----------



## DonMacGregor

Marionnette said:


> I don't think that VGF2 will be marketed as "studios only". They're going to present it as the full complement of VGF options from resort studio to grand villa. There will surely be people purchasing enough VGF2 points to book those larger villas. My concern is that there will be just enough of them to make booking the limited number of larger villas a real challenge.


That's what I've said several times, but people keep telling me I'm wrong. I think if I were a current VGF owner, I'd be worried about new owners bleeding into existing larger villas far more than I'd be welcoming more studio sized units.


----------



## SusieQ93

HIRyeDVC said:


> I couldn’t agree more! Other resorts give you a great view of MK. BLT and the Contemporary makes you feel like you’re still in it!


My only issue with BLT is I’ve heard such bad things about studios there. Once I buy in though for the trips where we want a one or two bedroom, I will try to get BLT at the 7 month window since it’s a better value than VGF.


----------



## DisneyMom_3

Jelly563 said:


> We stayed in a BLT gv. Best trip yet. watching the electric water parade from the balcony, that view and same floor as the lounge (when it was open / functional pre covid) unbeatable. Idk why they say it is sterile, it's so close to the magic how can u not feel it. Slight voyage to contemporary for provisions or whatever and u feel like your in the parks.


Well, I've never stayed in the BLT GV, but I toured it and it was beautiful. I'm sure I would feel the same as you had I had the opportunity to stay there! We will only stay in a GV if we have extended family with us and they can't really do the stairs so not sure it will ever happen for us. 
I just don't get the same feeling getting off the monorail at the Contemporary as I do at Poly and GF. My family all enjoy riding the monorail, so the shorter walk doesn't really matter to us. I'm sure watching the electric water parade through those huge windows would be amazing though!


----------



## HIRyeDVC

SusieQ93 said:


> My only issue with BLT is I’ve heard such bad things about studios there. Once I buy in though for the trips where we want a one or two bedroom, I will try to get BLT at the 7 month window since it’s a better value than VGF.


Yes, BLT studios suck for a family of 4. Personally, I try to avoid studios at all costs. It’s why I bought into DVC. For the location, laundry, and kitchen.


----------



## DisneyMom_3

DonMacGregor said:


> That's what I've said several times, but people keep telling me I'm wrong. I think if i were a current VGF owner, I'd be worried about new owners bleeding into existing larger villas far more than I'd be welcoming more studio sized units.


As a VGF owner, I'm hoping you are wrong! I'm definitely concerned about it, but still wanting to buy more points! (The first step is admitting I have a problem.  )


----------



## Jwaire

Marionnette said:


> I don't think that VGF2 will be marketed as "studios only". They're going to present it as the full complement of VGF options from resort studio to grand villa. There will surely be people purchasing enough VGF2 points to book those larger villas. My concern is that there will be just enough of them to make booking the limited number of larger villas a real challenge.



I think that's a real concern too especially considering the ability to bank and borrow. You're going to have people who skip a year, bank their points and decide to upgrade the next year. And there's only something like 47 dedicated 2- bedrooms and 47 lock offs. I think it's going to be like Copper Creek studios all over again except with 1 and 2 bedrooms (after the new addition sells out). This isn't like if they added to Polynesian, where you bought in knowing there's no other room types. GFV1 owners didn't expect an expansion some 9 years later. 

They should have made the resort studios a few points lower per night to entice people to book them instead.


----------



## Nabas

Jwaire said:


> They should have made the resort studios a few points lower per night to entice people to book them instead.


No doubt, Disney put Disney first.

First, making the new resort studios a point or two lower per night could make new buyers question them.  "What, aren't the new rooms as good as the old rooms?" This could cause headaches for guides and hurt sales. 

Second, fewer points per night means money that Disney doesn't collect.

When it announced VGF2, Disney did not seem particularly concerned with the headaches VGF2 creates for existing VGF1 owners.  The point charge reenforces this.


----------



## Bjaiken77

Nabas said:


> No doubt, Disney put Disney first.
> 
> First, making the new resort studios a point or two lower per night could make new buyers question them.  "What, aren't the new rooms as good as the old rooms?" This could cause headaches for guides and hurt sales.
> 
> Second, fewer points per night means money that Disney doesn't collect.
> 
> When it announced VGF2, Disney did not seem particularly concerned with the headaches VGF2 creates for existing VGF1 owners.  The point charge reenforces this.



Yeah, I do have an interest in buying VGF2, but I do feel bad about this.  I feel like it could have been handled better to make VGF1 owners still feel like they have some unique advantage.


----------



## DKZB

HIRyeDVC said:


> This is why there’s BLT!



Am I the only one seriously considering ditching any plans to buy VGF2 in favor of BLT?
If I didn't have points transferred in and vacations booked with my VGF contract, I think I would sell now before the announcement and buy BLT!


----------



## Jwaire

Nabas said:


> When it announced VGF2, Disney did not seem particularly concerned with the headaches VGF2 creates for existing VGF1 owners.  The point charge reenforces this.



As we've seen the last few years with the point chart debacles, they don't seem to put much thought into some of their decisions. If this becomes a problem for VGF1 owners, can they reclassify the regular studios and only offer 1 bedrooms and 2 bedrooms in the original building?

I know they can reallocate points to different room categories. So, they could do what I was suggesting earlier (resort studios become less points) in point chart 2024. I'm not sure in the history of DVC they've ever did anything as dramatic as reclassifying a room category. However, they have done small things like creating preferred rooms at Saratoga Springs five or six years ago.


----------



## SusieQ93

DKZB said:


> Am I the only one seriously considering ditching any plans to buy VGF2 in favor of BLT?
> If I didn't have points transferred in and vacations booked with my VGF contract, I think I would sell now before the announcement and buy BLT!


The new BLT incentives are just for current owners looking to add on right? Or can new owners get that deal too?


----------



## DKZB

SusieQ93 said:


> The new BLT incentives are just for current owners looking to add on right? Or can new owners get that deal too?



There are different incentives for current owners and new members but they are both pretty good...

https://dvcfan.com/2022/02/03/significant-new-bay-lake-tower-dvc-incentives-announced/


----------



## BWV Dreamin

So another angle DVC could be looking at regarding VGF2 pricing. Piggybacking off of what they just did with BLT, offer VGF2 at $255/pt (current price posted) but offer a very large incentive to bring the PPP down near or just above Riviera. And only offer it for a specified time (like they are with BLT ending in March). That would still keep small point add-ons (less than 150 pts) at $255/pt, but offer the promo to compete with Aulani and Riviera.

I have a hunch pricing will be released in March right after all of the other promos end.


----------



## awatt

BWV Dreamin said:


> So another angle DVC could be looking at regarding VGF2 pricing. Piggybacking off of what they just did with BLT, offer VGF2 at $255/pt (current price posted) but offer a very large incentive to bring the PPP down near or just above Riviera. And only offer it for a specified time (like they are with BLT ending in March). That would still keep small point add-ons (less than 150 pts) at $255/pt, but offer the promo to compete with Aulani and Riviera.
> 
> I have a hunch pricing will be released in March right after all of the other promos end.



I think you may be right  but I hope not.

Want a small add on. If it comes in at $255 direct, I will go resale route.


----------



## RichVIII

I talked to my guide yesterday and I joked that everything leaks out from Disney...except this. She said, they don't tell us until they absolutely have to do it. She, like others, based on the time they become available said it should be "soon." I guess it is a double edged sword for guides, you have a reason to talk to your folks but you have no information. She certainly was making sure I didn't want RIV.


----------



## Jwaire

RichVIII said:


> I talked to my guide yesterday and I joked that everything leaks out from Disney...except this. She said, they don't tell us until they absolutely have to do it. She, like others, based on the time they become available said it should be "soon." I guess it is a double edged sword for guides, you have a reason to talk to your folks but you have no information. She certainly was making sure I didn't want RIV.



Yeah my guide didn't even know they had already announced the resort studios would be available for booking this summer. He said the Internet usually knows before they are told.


----------



## HIRyeDVC

DKZB said:


> Am I the only one seriously considering ditching any plans to buy VGF2 in favor of BLT?
> If I didn't have points transferred in and vacations booked with my VGF contract, I think I would sell now before the announcement and buy BLT!


If you like 1 & 2 BRs, then yes, BLT is now king out the monorail resorts. I feel bad for VGF1 owners that now must compete at the 11 month window with this influx of studios.


----------



## Jwaire

HIRyeDVC said:


> If you like 1 & 2 BRs, then yes, BLT is now king out the monorail resorts. I feel bad for VGF1 owners that now must compete at the 11 month window with this influx of studios.



And BLT is scheduled for a full refurb in 2023. I can't wait to see the design. I'm hoping it's Mary Blair inspired like the recently refreshed lobby.


----------



## HIRyeDVC

Jwaire said:


> And BLT is scheduled for a full refurb in 2023. I can't wait to see the design. I'm hoping it's Mary Blair inspired like the recently refreshed lobby.


I’m excited too. Murphy beds and brand new everything that comes with a hard refurb? Maybe even some subtle incredibles theming? I think it will be nicer than Riviera rooms. All at the doorsteps of MK!! Can’t wait.


----------



## Sandisw

Jwaire said:


> I think that's a real concern too especially considering the ability to bank and borrow. You're going to have people who skip a year, bank their points and decide to upgrade the next year. And there's only something like 47 dedicated 2- bedrooms and 47 lock offs. I think it's going to be like Copper Creek studios all over again except with 1 and 2 bedrooms (after the new addition sells out). This isn't like if they added to Polynesian, where you bought in knowing there's no other room types. GFV1 owners didn't expect an expansion some 9 years later.
> 
> They should have made the resort studios a few points lower per night to entice people to book them instead.



This is our current plan…every other year trips in December in a 1 or 2 bedroom.


----------



## Jwaire

HIRyeDVC said:


> I’m excited too. Murphy beds and brand new everything that comes with a hard refurb? Maybe even some subtle incredibles theming? I think it will be nicer than Riviera rooms. All at the doorsteps of MK!! Can’t wait.



By Incredibles you meant Monorail and Space Mountain.


----------



## DisneyMom_3

BWV Dreamin said:


> I have a hunch pricing will be released in March right after all of the other promos end.



I’m not sure I can wait another month! 
I was hoping I could get a new contract as a Christmas present, then I thought maybe Valentine’s Day. I’m not sure what leverage I’m going to have on my hubby in March   (Mother’s Day in May is way too far away!)


----------



## KTownRaider

DisneyMom_3 said:


> I’m not sure I can wait another month!


I hear you.  Hearing the guides tell us info is coming 'soon' is of little help.  I recall back in November, some on this board were speculating we'd hear surprise announcement on Black Friday!    

It's not much, but I'm trying my best to focus on the silver lining that each day that sales do not start is one less day I'll pay in my eventual prorated VGF2 2022 dues...


----------



## DisneyMom_3

KTownRaider said:


> It's not much, but I'm trying my best to focus on the silver lining that each day that sales do not start is one less day I'll pay in my eventual prorated VGF2 2022 dues...


Thanks, Pollyanna!  I needed that silver lining!


----------



## HIRyeDVC

KTownRaider said:


> I hear you.  Hearing the guides tell us info is coming 'soon' is of little help.  I recall back in November, some on this board were speculating we'd hear surprise announcement on Black Friday!
> 
> It's not much, but I'm trying my best to focus on the silver lining that each day that sales do not start is one less day I'll pay in my eventual prorated VGF2 2022 dues...


DLT! Stick to the plan!


----------



## KTownRaider

HIRyeDVC said:


> DLT! Stick to the plan!


Plans are subject to change


----------



## Bjaiken77

This is one of the things that is exhausting for me in my interactions with Disney: We usually aren’t even close on our definition of what “soon” means?


----------



## Redheadprincess

Jelly563 said:


> along those lines,  I fear that most contracts will be 100pts or less. That means more contract owners and mostly studio people.


Direct owners adding can do 100 pts, but new owners will have to purchase 150pt minimums.


----------



## HIRyeDVC

Not to kill you all with more anticipation but.....

Looks like half of the proposed resort studios at the new Big Pine Key building has been declared to the Comptroller, "paving the way for sales to begin soon...."

https://dvcnews.com/resorts/grand-f...oridian-units-declared-into-condo-association


----------



## Paul Stupin

Marionnette said:


> I don't think that VGF2 will be marketed as "studios only". They're going to present it as the full complement of VGF options from resort studio to grand villa. There will surely be people purchasing enough VGF2 points to book those larger villas. My concern is that there will be just enough of them to make booking the limited number of larger villas a real challenge.


The larger villas are some of the highest point accommodations at WDW. Though there might be some additional pressure on VGF one and two bedrooms, I think their very very high price is not going to create a monumental surge in demand. At least I hope!


----------



## DL1WDW2

Those room chart descriptions and floor plan w/ No balcony…. 
losing interest In VGF2. 
Will that help with lower price?


----------



## RoseGold

DL1WDW2 said:


> Those room chart descriptions and floor plan w/ No balcony….
> losing interest In VGF2.
> Will that help with lower price?



We already knew that.  I mean, the building already exists and you can see most of them don't have balconies.  It's not like they're going to add on balconies in a moneygrab flip.


----------



## KVacc

Jwaire said:


> And BLT is scheduled for a full refurb in 2023. I can't wait to see the design. I'm hoping it's Mary Blair inspired like the recently refreshed lobby.


I read this at first glance as Mary Poppins inspired…lol


----------



## SusieQ93

This is off topic on pricing, but does anyone have any speculation on if you’ll be able to get adjoining resort studios? Already planning out my first trip in my head.


----------



## HIRyeDVC

SusieQ93 said:


> This is off topic on pricing, but does anyone have any speculation on if you’ll be able to get adjoining resort studios? Already planning out my first trip in my head.


you can request it, but the article says "DVC does not guarantee such a room assignment."


----------



## DisneyMom_3

Paul Stupin said:


> The larger villas are some of the highest point accommodations at WDW. Though there might be some additional pressure on VGF one and two bedrooms, I think their very very high price is not going to create a monumental surge in demand. At least I hope!


I sure hope you are right!


----------



## HIRyeDVC

KVacc said:


> I read this at first glance as Mary Poppins inspired…lol


At first, I was like who is Mary Blair? I had to google it.


----------



## SusieQ93

HIRyeDVC said:


> you can request it, but the article says "DVC does not guarantee such a room assignment."


Geez, right there in the article. I should read more thoroughly


----------



## DisneyMom_3

HIRyeDVC said:


> Not to kill you all with more anticipation but.....
> 
> Looks like half of the proposed resort studios at the new Big Pine Key building has been declared to the Comptroller, "paving the way for sales to begin soon...."
> 
> https://dvcnews.com/resorts/grand-f...oridian-units-declared-into-condo-association


According to the article, “With Disney's Riviera Resort, sales began about one month after similar declarations were filed. Copper Creek Villas & Cabins at Disney's Wilderness Lodge opened sales just 15 days after such filings.”

15 days to 1 month  
Hoping it’s ‘soon’er than that!  
Probably wishful thinking!


----------



## KTownRaider

HIRyeDVC said:


> At first, I was like who is Mary Blair? I had to google it.



Beyond the giant concourse murals, they've really incorporated her/her work into the remodeled Contemporary lobby.  Would love if some of this motif bled into the upcoming BLT refurb.  Definitely check it out the next time your'e in the neighborhood...

https://www.laughingplace.com/w/new...r-inspired-lobby-disneys-contemporary-resort/


----------



## J-Dog

NM, I got beat to it..


----------



## TinkB278

DL1WDW2 said:


> Those room chart descriptions and floor plan w/ No balcony….
> losing interest In VGF2.
> Will that help with lower price?


I didn’t realize there weren’t balconies either! I think I’m officially out for VGF2.  I’ll add on at RIV or get some AKV points. For me, coffee on the balcony is one of my favorite parts of my trip.


----------



## Ruttangel

DVC News is much quicker to everything, great people over there and friendly too


----------



## nuhusky123

I am really interested to see room D. Seems like it could be unique

edit
82 out of the 101 rooms have connecting doors

i will be sure to be making requests for no connecting doors


----------



## Sandisw

DisneyMom_3 said:


> According to the article, “With Disney's Riviera Resort, sales began about one month after similar declarations were filed. Copper Creek Villas & Cabins at Disney's Wilderness Lodge opened sales just 15 days after such filings.”
> 
> 15 days to 1 month
> Hoping it’s ‘soon’er than that!
> Probably wishful thinking!



They started sales for RIV 8 months prior to opening though so given the short time between now and when these are bookable, hopefully the start sales sometime this month!!

I do like there will be connecting rooms and while not guaranteed, at least it’s possible.


----------



## KVacc

Sandisw said:


> They started sales for RIV 8 months prior to opening though so given the short time between now and when these are bookable, hopefully the start sales sometime this month!!
> 
> I do like there will be connecting rooms and while not guaranteed, at least it’s possible.


What are declarations?


----------



## Sandisw

KVacc said:


> What are declarations?



In order to sell a timeshare, you have to declare that the rooms are part of the condo association and have become timeshare units.

Once declared, they can  be sold!


----------



## nuhusky123

So on timing it’s possible

1- dvc waiting until March 3 when current riv incentives expire so they can offer gfv and riv incentives
2- dvc will announce gfv prior to March 3 with super short incentives that also expire March 3 but these will offer the likeliest best incentives to drive early sales
3- dvc will announce prior to March 3 and do whatever they like with no connected dates to riv dates
4- I have covid brain and dvc does none of the above

i do hope for #2


----------



## DisneyMom_3

Sandisw said:


> They started sales for RIV 8 months prior to opening though so given the short time between now and when these are bookable, hopefully the start sales sometime this month!!
> 
> I do like there will be connecting rooms and while not guaranteed, at least it’s possible.



I hope so! 
Connecting rooms are guaranteed if traveling with only two adults and children, correct? Thinking two full bathrooms may be worth the tradeoff if we don't have enough points for a 2 bedroom (or are wanting to save points for another trip). Points are comparable for 2 studios vs 1 bedroom. Something to consider. Maybe others will feel the same and want two studios as well. 

I would be tempted to book the resort studio just for those tower rooms! (not that they have connecting rooms though) I wish they would've made them a separate booking category, but I guess there aren't enough of them to justify it.


----------



## wdrl

RoseGold said:


> We already knew that.  I mean, the building already exists and you can see most of them don't have balconies.  It's not like they're going to add on balconies in a moneygrab flip.





TinkB278 said:


> I didn’t realize there weren’t balconies either! I think I’m officially out for VGF2.  I’ll add on at RIV or get some AKV points. For me, coffee on the balcony is one of my favorite parts of my trip.


FYI:  Of the 101 resort studios included in this declaration, it appears that 98 will have balconies.  The three studios that probably won't have balconies are located on the 5th floor, including the Tower studio on that floor.


----------



## DisneyMom_3

nuhusky123 said:


> So on timing it’s possible
> 
> 1- dvc waiting until March 3 when current riv incentives expire so they can offer gfv and riv incentives
> 2- dvc will announce gfv prior to March 3 with super short incentives that also expire March 3 but these will offer the likeliest best incentives to drive early sales
> 3- dvc will announce prior to March 3 and do whatever they like with no connected dates to riv dates
> 4- I have covid brain and dvc does none of the above
> 
> i do hope for #2



Hoping for #2 as well!


----------



## Sandisw

DisneyMom_3 said:


> I hope so!
> Connecting rooms are guaranteed if traveling with only two adults and children, correct? Thinking two full bathrooms may be worth the tradeoff if we don't have enough points for a 2 bedroom (or are wanting to save points for another trip). Points are comparable for 2 studios vs 1 bedroom. Something to consider. Maybe others will feel the same and want two studios as well.
> 
> I would be tempted to book the resort studio just for those tower rooms! (not that they have connecting rooms though) I wish they would've made them a separate booking category, but I guess there aren't enough of them to justify it.



No. They will not guarantee them but I know at Poly there have been very few reports that it did not happen.


----------



## Sandisw

nuhusky123 said:


> So on timing it’s possible
> 
> 1- dvc waiting until March 3 when current riv incentives expire so they can offer gfv and riv incentives
> 2- dvc will announce gfv prior to March 3 with super short incentives that also expire March 3 but these will offer the likeliest best incentives to drive early sales
> 3- dvc will announce prior to March 3 and do whatever they like with no connected dates to riv dates
> 4- I have covid brain and dvc does none of the above
> 
> i do hope for #2



I think it will be #1 with sales starting March 3rd but price given next two weeks!!

But I’d be happy with 2!


----------



## HIRyeDVC

KTownRaider said:


> Beyond the giant concourse murals, they've really incorporated her/her work into the remodeled Contemporary lobby.  Would love if some of this motif bled in upcoming BLT refurb.  Definitely check it out the next time your'e in the neighborhood...
> 
> https://www.laughingplace.com/w/new...r-inspired-lobby-disneys-contemporary-resort/View attachment 644769


It’s cute, but it’s kinda lost on me. Would it be terrible for me to prefer the Incredibles theming


----------



## stwaldman

HIRyeDVC said:


> It’s cute, but it’s kinda lost on me. Would it be terrible for me to prefer the Incredibles theming


Imma say it is  just one person's opinion tho


----------



## Jwaire

HIRyeDVC said:


> It’s cute, but it’s kinda lost on me. Would it be terrible for me to prefer the Incredibles theming



 

It's all subjective. I just don't associate The Incredibles with the Contemporary's motif.

When I walk into the A frame I'm expecting Tomorrowland-like retro modern. But it's current theming is all over the place. The Grand Canyon Concourse is 90's style blue, red, purple and black. The lobby and Steakhouse 71 is mid-century modern with Mary Blair-like monorail and Tomorrowland murals. The cash rooms are retro futuristic with The Incredibles theming. Bay Lake Tower has a pop art element to it.

You can say the same thing about VGF though with its Victorian old Floridian-style, but also Mary Poppins, Dumbo, The Happiest Millionaire (whatever that is), Alice in Wonderland (Splashpad) and Beauty & the Beast (Enchanted Rose).


----------



## CarolMN

HIRyeDVC said:


> Would it be terrible for me to prefer the Incredibles theming


I would be thrilled to see the Incredibles theming carried over to the BLT rooms from the Contemporary.  Ms Blair can have the lobby.


----------



## Jelly563

Dont forget Duffy at VGF


----------



## HIRyeDVC

CarolMN said:


> I would be thrilled to see the Incredibles theming carried over to the BLT rooms from the Contemporary.  Ms Blair can have the lobby.


Yes! I have support from the super moderator!


----------



## davidl81

I’m reading a lot of post on here about how people want VGF2 to be lees points per night than VGF1.  I mean look there are a lot of DVC members that want two real queen beds, not a sleeper sofa.  Plus the extra square footage.  I would bet there are a lot of VGF1 buyers who now book VGF2 rooms.  I think it’s perfectly fair for DVC to price it the same.


----------



## DisneyMom_3

davidl81 said:


> I’m reading a lot of post on here about how people want VGF2 to be lees points per night than VGF1.  I mean look there are a lot of DVC members that want two real queen beds, not a sleeper sofa.  Plus the extra square footage.  I would bet there are a lot of VGF1 buyers who now book VGF2 rooms.  I think it’s perfectly fair for DVC to price it the same.


I think it’s fair, but I think it’s more of the fact that lower point rooms book up faster, so if they were lower points, then those just looking for the cheaper rooms would book there leaving the already small number of deluxe studios available for those that really want them (like the original owners).
But, I’m happy they didn’t make the new resort studios more points making the deluxe studios more enticing with the lower points.


----------



## dvc lover 1970

Sandisw said:


> They started sales for RIV 8 months prior to opening though so given the short time between now and when these are bookable, hopefully the start sales sometime this month!!
> 
> I do like there will be connecting rooms and while not guaranteed, at least it’s possible.


I tend to think if you request it you will morelikely get it especially since 82 of the 100 rooms are connecting. Unless you book in a 30 day window where availability is already limited


----------



## DebbieB

davidl81 said:


> I’m reading a lot of post on here about how people want VGF2 to be lees points per night than VGF1.  I mean look there are a lot of DVC members that want two real queen beds, not a sleeper sofa.  Plus the extra square footage.  I would bet there are a lot of VGF1 buyers who now book VGF2 rooms.  I think it’s perfectly fair for DVC to price it the same.



I only stayed at VGF once but it seemed a hike to the bus stop and quick service.  I think VGF2 has a better location.

Has anyone been there lately?  Have they started renovating?


----------



## Sandisw

dvc lover 1970 said:


> I tend to think if you request it you will morelikely get it especially since 82 of the 100 rooms are connecting. Unless you book in a 30 day window where availability is already limited



I agree that is is almost all but guaranteed because it’s not been an issue at Poly.


----------



## Sandisw

DebbieB said:


> I only stayed at VGF once but it seemed a hike to the bus stop and quick service.  I think VGF2 has a better location.
> 
> Has anyone been there lately?  Have they started renovating?



ill be there Monday for one night. I’ll report back!


----------



## Cfrone

DebbieB said:


> I only stayed at VGF once but it seemed a hike to the bus stop and quick service.  I think VGF2 has a better location.
> 
> Has anyone been there lately?  Have they started renovating?


We were at VGF in December. The walk to the buses and quick service food isn't short but certainly not unbearable. I'd say probably relatively equivalent to the walk from BLT to the Contemporary lobby for food. 

In terms of VGF2, the location is probably "better" but I guess it all depends on what's most important to you - i.e., do you need a kitchenette? What type of bed(s) do you prefer? etc.


----------



## Sandisw

Cfrone said:


> We were at VGF in December. The walk to the buses and quick service food isn't short but certainly not unbearable. I'd say probably relatively equivalent to the walk from BLT to the Contemporary lobby for food.
> 
> In terms of VGF2, the location is probably "better" but I guess it all depends on what's most important to you - i.e., do you need a kitchenette? What type of bed(s) do you prefer? etc.



To add to what you said, you can get to the buses and Gasprillas from VGF1 under covered walkways if raining. Can’t do that from Big Pone Key!


----------



## BWV Dreamin

Cfrone said:


> We were at VGF in December. The walk to the buses and quick service food isn't short but certainly not unbearable. I'd say probably relatively equivalent to the walk from BLT to the Contemporary lobby for food.
> 
> In terms of VGF2, the location is probably "better" but I guess it all depends on what's most important to you - i.e., do you need a kitchenette? What type of bed(s) do you prefer? etc.


Obviously you have not stayed at BWV, or AKV. Now those hallways are longgggg. VGF1 has a covered walkway. Really a piece of cake walk. But I guess that is all relative….


----------



## dvc lover 1970

nuhusky123 said:


> I am really interested to see room D. Seems like it could be unique
> 
> edit
> 82 out of the 101 rooms have connecting doors
> 
> i will be sure to be making requests for no connecting doors
> 
> View attachment 644771


Room D is very interesting. I wonder if that is similar to the alt studios at CCV? Also, I would be really upset if I got a room without a balcony. I wonder if they will hold the non-balcony rooms for cash reservations?


----------



## Sandisw

dvc lover 1970 said:


> Room D is very interesting. I wonder if that is similar to the alt studios at CCV? Also, I would be really upset if I got a room without a balcony. I wonder if they will hold the non-balcony rooms for cash reservations?



That is a good thought but not sure they can do that when all 100% of the rooms, once totally declared, have to be available for DVC bookings so someone is going to get a no balcony room or one of these rooms.

While it won't thrill me either to have one, I will still book there and hope for the best.  Anyone who would be really upset about it, probably shouldn't buy or book there because no way to prevent that happening.


----------



## Jwaire

BWV Dreamin said:


> Obviously you have not stayed at BWV, or AKV. Now those hallways are longgggg. VGF1 has a covered walkway. Really a piece of cake walk. But I guess that is all relative….



Or the 1.5 miles my room was at Saratoga from Artist's Palette.   VGF is nothing!


----------



## dvc lover 1970

Sandisw said:


> That is a good thought but not sure they can do that when all 100% of the rooms, once totally declared, have to be available for DVC bookings so someone is going to get a no balcony room or one of these rooms.
> 
> While it won't thrill me either to have one, I will still book there and hope for the best.  Anyone who would be really upset about it, probably shouldn't buy or book there because no way to prevent that happening.


i thought DVC holds back/owns something like 5%-10% of the points so they can use them for cash bookings. A room with no balcony will make for a very unhappy DVC owner, it should be a separate booking category for less points. otherwise they may have many unhappy owners-myself included.


----------



## Sandisw

dvc lover 1970 said:


> i thought DVC holds back/owns something like 5%-10% of the points so they can use them for cash bookings. A room with no balcony will make for a very unhappy DVC owner, it should be a separate booking category for less points. otherwise they may have many unhappy owners-myself included.



They don’t hold back for using for cash. They can not legally sell all points per timeshare law.

However, they are still bound by the same rules for booking as us so all rooms become 100% available for booking.

Aside from making it it’s own category, there will be a chance that one gets it.

It doesn’t appear they plan to do that at this point so I think everyone should expect it could happen unless we see DVD announce the change.


----------



## Nabas

dvc lover 1970 said:


> i thought DVC holds back/owns something like 5%-10% of the points so they can use them for cash bookings. A room with no balcony will make for a very unhappy DVC owner, it should be a separate booking category for less points. otherwise they may have many unhappy owners-myself included.


As I understand it, Florida law requires them to retain 2% ownership.


----------



## nuhusky123

dvc lover 1970 said:


> Room D is very interesting. I wonder if that is similar to the alt studios at CCV? Also, I would be really upset if I got a room without a balcony. I wonder if they will hold the non-balcony rooms for cash reservations?


I don’t think I would mind no balcony if it mean slightly more interior space

only exception to this would be akv savanna view. Pretty much required there


----------



## SusieQ93

nuhusky123 said:


> I don’t think I would mind no balcony if it mean slightly more interior space
> 
> only exception to this would be akv savanna view. Pretty much required there


Yeah, I think the idea of a balcony is better than actually having a balcony. I’ve only ever really used my balcony at AKL and then a bit at Aulani too. Otherwise even though I like the idea of a balcony, we usually go out there once for a brief moment and look and then never use it again. But that’s just me.


----------



## Matty B13

The balconies at VGF 1.0 are very nice, I love sitting out watching the monorail fly by while have a drink after a long day at the parks.


----------



## SusieQ93

Matty B13 said:


> The balconies at VGF 1.0 are very nice, I love sitting out watching the monorail fly by while have a drink after a long day at the parks.


That sounds lovely. I probably need to take more time in my life to stop and enjoy the balconies.


----------



## sndral

I always use my balconies, in the a.m. drinking my coffee at AKV to look for animals & at VGF to watch the monorail or the boats & in the evenings w/ a beverage to do the same, or if I’m lucky to watch the fireworks. I will say that I rarely see others out on their balconies so I suspect I’m in the minority.


----------



## nuhusky123

Balcony’s are like bath tubs. Everyone thinks they are a must have and they will use them All the time

reality is more the opposite 

give me a standing shower and more interior space


----------



## stwaldman

sndral said:


> I always use my balconies, in the a.m. drinking my coffee at AKV to look for animals & at VGF to watch the monorail or the boats & in the evenings w/ a beverage to do the same, or if I’m lucky to watch the fireworks. I will say that I rarely see others out on their balconies so I suspect I’m in the minority.


I definitely have heard the spousal shout of "hey you realize you're drinking your coffee in your boxers out there, right?" -____-


----------



## SusieQ93

nuhusky123 said:


> Balcony’s are like bath tubs. Everyone thinks they are a must have and they will use them All the time
> 
> reality is more the opposite
> 
> give me a standing shower and more interior space


I agree a standing shower is definitely preferable for adults. But I’m not a bath person. Not a bath person, not really a balcony person, perhaps I’m bad at relaxing?  but bath tubs are a necessity for people with small children.


----------



## DenLo

stwaldman said:


> I definitely have heard the spousal shout of "hey you realize you're drinking your coffee in your boxers out there, right?" -____-



Evidently someone doesn't believe the signs on the balcony doors saying security cameras are constantly operating.  

DH and I use our balconies at AKV, or for that matter any DVC resort, for a light breakfast and in the evenings wine with snacks. But most of the balconies at AKV are unoccupied with a few children coming out to "talk" to the animals.


----------



## JETSDAD

Nabas said:


> As I understand it, Florida law requires them to retain 2% ownership.


I haven't read through the legal stuff recently but I believe it is contractual rather than legal.  In the POS it will state something to the effect that developer will retain a minimum of x% (generally 2 I believe).


----------



## Sandisw

JETSDAD said:


> I haven't read through the legal stuff recently but I believe it is contractual rather than legal.  In the POS it will state something to the effect that developer will retain a minimum of x% (generally 2 I believe).



Pretty sure it is there because of the way FL timeshare code is written. I will see if I can find where I read it.


----------



## Nabas

Matty B13 said:


> The balconies at VGF 1.0 are very nice, I love sitting out watching the monorail fly by while have a drink after a long day at the parks.





sndral said:


> I always use my balconies, in the a.m. drinking my coffee at AKV to look for animals & at VGF to watch the monorail or the boats & in the evenings w/ a beverage to do the same, or if I’m lucky to watch the fireworks. I will say that I rarely see others out on their balconies so I suspect I’m in the minority.


We are "coffee on the balcony" people every morning! 

Beach Club:


Boardwalk:


Old Key West:


Copper Creek:


Grand Floridian:


Sarasota Spring:


Vero Beach:


Riviera:


And these are just from the last 16 months! 

Morning coffee on the balcony and Baseline Tap House are pretty much the top reasons we still go WDW:



So yeah, we pretty much never want one of the VGF2 rooms without a balcony.


----------



## Brian Noble

SusieQ93 said:


> I probably need to take more time in my life to stop and enjoy the balconies.


I've enjoyed the balcony at every resort I've stayed at. But, the place to really live this life is Old Key West.


----------



## dvc lover 1970

We use our balconies every morning. I will often sit on the balcony in the afternoon and early evening. I know DVC owns a certain amount of points, because, A couple times when I rearranged my dates, I had to book on cash at my resort because there were no rooms on points. When I asked member services about this, they told me disney owns a certain amount of points that they rent for cash. This was pretty far out-I believe still in the 11 month booking or maybe just into the 7 month


----------



## npatellye

Brian Noble said:


> But, the place to really live this life is Old Key West.


100% agree. That balcony is my favorite.


----------



## DougEMG

BWV Dreamin said:


> Obviously you have not stayed at BWV, or AKV. Now those hallways are longgggg. VGF1 has a covered walkway. Really a piece of cake walk. But I guess that is all relative….



That covered walk is a awesome when it is raining out.  It has kept me dry so many times, love it.


----------



## CookieandOatmeal

I think the only time I didn't use my balcony was when I got parking lot view at Pago Pago. Didn't want to be gawked at by people getting into/out of their car. Just wasn't relaxing.


----------



## Jwaire

CookieandOatmeal said:


> I think the only time I didn't use my balcony was when I got parking lot view at Pago Pago. Didn't want to be gawked at by people getting into/out of their car. Just wasn't relaxing.



They need to fix Pago Pago. Add some additional landscaping or something. The parking lot is never full I'd almost rather stay at Saratoga than Pago Pago. I don't usually make room requests, but I always ask for Tokelau.


----------



## CookieandOatmeal

Jwaire said:


> They need to fix Pago Pago. Add some additional landscaping or something. The parking lot is never full I'd almost rather stay at Saratoga than Pago Pago. I don't usually make room requests, but I always ask for Tokelau.


I tried to tell myself it was monorail view but the parking lot is literally right outside my window. People were annoyingly loud getting into/out of their cars early in the morning/late at night. I think my request was for Tokelau or Moorea, higher floors which obviously I didn't get.

I really enjoy my balcony when there is something to look at. Last time we stayed at VGF in a 1 bedroom, my little guy loved going back and forth on the balcony people watching and seeing the monorail drive in. I loved being able to pop out at night to catch the fireworks too.


----------



## rubybutt

The standard view balcony at RIV that can see both firework shows is awesome!  Also have you really lived if you haven't woken up to a giraffe 20 feet away from your balcony?


----------



## DisneyMom_3

DougEMG said:


> That covered walk is a awesome when it is raining out.  It has kept me dry so many times, love it.


Agreed! We stayed at Poly our last trip and it rained almost every day. We were definitely missing that covered walkway at VGF!


----------



## tidefan

DisneyMom_3 said:


> Agreed! We stayed at Poly our last trip and it rained almost every day. We were definitely missing that covered walkway at VGF!


Especially if you are trying to get your laundry back from Moorea to Tokelau…


----------



## TCRAIG

Well - since Feb 3/4 has passed and no new GF pricing info (although we did get some surprises on other resorts - BLT) - anybody making any new guesses?  I’m really to the point where I don’t care how much points will cost - I just wanna know so I can make my plans!


----------



## Nabas

TCRAIG said:


> Well - since Feb 3/4 has passed and no new GF pricing info (although we did get some surprises on other resorts - BLT) - anybody making any new guesses?  I’m really to the point where I don’t care how much points will cost - I just wanna know so I can make my plans!


March 4.

Disney would benefit by getting this out for sale to the general public for the start of the spring break crunch.

So maybe early sales to existing DVC members before March 4, perhaps later this month (February)?


----------



## Bjaiken77

TCRAIG said:


> Well - since Feb 3/4 has passed and no new GF pricing info (although we did get some surprises on other resorts - BLT) - anybody making any new guesses?  I’m really to the point where I don’t care how much points will cost - I just wanna know so I can make my plans!


This is me exactly!!!  Just let me know.


----------



## Sandisw

TCRAIG said:


> Well - since Feb 3/4 has passed and no new GF pricing info (although we did get some surprises on other resorts - BLT) - anybody making any new guesses?  I’m really to the point where I don’t care how much points will cost - I just wanna know so I can make my plans!



Now that they have declared the rooms, I think we see base pricing in two weeks with sales starting first week in March.


----------



## SusieQ93

Nabas said:


> March 4.
> 
> Disney would benefit by getting this out for sale to the general public for the start of the spring break crunch.
> 
> So maybe early sales to existing DVC members later this month?


Oh! Great point about spring break! I like your prediction.


----------



## kungaloosh22

CookieandOatmeal said:


> I think the only time I didn't use my balcony was when I got parking lot view at Pago Pago. Didn't want to be gawked at by people getting into/out of their car. Just wasn't relaxing.



The chance of getting Pago Pago parking lot view is why we usually book Lake View studios at Poly. For a lot of people it's not worth the extra points because you might end up with 1st floor and not see too much lake, but for us that's much preferable than ending up with parking lot at the Poly. But that's because we definitely do use the balcony/patio, and parking lot just doesn't carry that tropical theme. I still wish they'd do 3 room categories for Poly studios: standard, garden, and preferred.

The theme park balconies of VGF are the most appealing aspect of the new studios, for me. I also think the rooms are gorgeous! That said, I'm in the skeptical camp about VGF2 because of fears that it will make larger units hard to get at GFV. We typically use our Poly points when we want studios, and prefer 1 bedrooms+ at VGF.

I really like tubs, too, though more so the DVC master bathroom style tub than the standard tub/shower combo type.


----------



## DKZB

Bjaiken77 said:


> This is me exactly!!!  Just let me know.



I really just want to know the VGF pricing and restrictions while the BLT promo is still going on. Would hate for it to end before we find out!


----------



## M:SpilotISTC12

Seen on the add on tool page.


----------



## nuhusky123

M:SpilotISTC12 said:


> View attachment 645543Seen on the add on tool page.


Yes this was added feb 3


----------



## M:SpilotISTC12

nuhusky123 said:


> Yes this was added feb 3


My bad! Don’t get to read every page as often as I’d like.


----------



## nuhusky123

M:SpilotISTC12 said:


> My bad! Don’t get to read every page as often as I’d like.


No worries, have a great one


----------



## AdamsMum

sndral said:


> I always use my balconies, in the a.m. drinking my coffee at AKV to look for animals & at VGF to watch the monorail or the boats & in the evenings w/ a beverage to do the same, or if I’m lucky to watch the fireworks. I will say that I rarely see others out on their balconies so I suspect I’m in the minority.


I'm also one who uses my balcony daily, no matter the view.  Every morning with coffee, and evenings before going to bed.  I agree though, I rarely see other people out on their balconies.  I guess we're a small group.  I wonder if requesting a balcony room would help. Then again, in 15 years as a DVC member I rarely have had a request fulfilled.  They seem to delight in giving me the opposite.


----------



## Sandisw

AdamsMum said:


> I'm also one who uses my balcony daily, no matter the view.  Every morning with coffee, and evenings before going to bed.  I agree though, I rarely see other people out on their balconies.  I guess we're a small group.  I wonder if requesting a balcony room would help. Then again, in 15 years as a DVC member I rarely have had a request fulfilled.  They seem to delight in giving me the opposite.



I have a feeling that requesting one will become very popular to those who want it.  I do love it and use it as well, but honestly, if I end up without one, it won't be the end of the world as staying here will always be part of a split stay!


----------



## Lorana

Nabas said:


> March 4.
> 
> Disney would benefit by getting this out for sale to the general public for the start of the spring break crunch.
> 
> So maybe early sales to existing DVC members before March 4, perhaps later this month (February)?


I tend to agree with you, but as President’s Day Week is winter break week for a lot of New England and I believe some other states, I was thinking they might announce to catch the hordes of us descending during that week. (We have a large friend and family group of 50 people going that week).


----------



## hhisc16

Sandisw said:


> Now that they have declared the rooms, I think we see base pricing in two weeks with sales starting first week in March.


How many rooms were declared?


----------



## The Jackal

hhisc16 said:


> How many rooms were declared?


From what I heard, 1/2 of the rooms were declared. Not sure if it is true.


----------



## Sandisw

hhisc16 said:


> How many rooms were declared?



101 of the 202...half the new building.  That is higher than normal, but my feeling is it is because of it being part of the same condo association and all current points are valid for those rooms.  So, while it is 50% of the new rooms, it is not 50% of the entire resort.

The good news is that this gives current and new owners a lot of rooms from the start to book!!!


----------



## RoseGold

The balconies will be a non-issue.  Just request a balcony.  I had thought the whole top floor or two had no balconies, but looks like it's just a few rooms. 

I got a Pago Pago ground floor once and hates the little shrub prison, especially with a toddler, so I request an upper floor and always got it, even lakeview.  Poly also fills the adjacent room requests, with maybe a handful of exceptions.  I don't see balconies or adjacent rooms being challenging to get in such a big building.


----------



## Bjaiken77

Not that I was expecting a ton to talk about without a price or on sale date, but I was supposed to hear from a DVC guide within 48 business hours.  That hasn’t happened yet.  How are those VGF2 calls coming along?  Any more information provided by the guides?


----------



## stwaldman

Bjaiken77 said:


> Not that I was expecting a ton to talk about without a price or on sale date, but I was supposed to hear from a DVC guide within 48 business hours.  That hasn’t happened yet.  How are those VGF2 calls coming along?  Any more information provided by the guides?


No more info from my call, and per mine and others on the boards, the calls seem to be just "hey you're on my list to call once I know more". I would imagine some sales guides were proactive in making this "I don't know anything yet" call and other probably are letting the dust settle a few days to see if they can call w. More info.


----------



## DonMacGregor

stwaldman said:


> No more info from my call, and per mine and others on the boards, the calls seem to be just "hey you're on my list to call once I know more". I would imagine some sales guides were proactive in making this "I don't know anything yet" call and other probably are letting the dust settle a few days to see if they can call w. More info.


Those are 100% "Hey, while I have you on the phone..." calls.


----------



## Bjaiken77

stwaldman said:


> No more info from my call, and per mine and others on the boards, the calls seem to be just "hey you're on my list to call once I know more". I would imagine some sales guides were proactive in making this "I don't know anything yet" call and other probably are letting the dust settle a few days to see if they can call w. More info.



ok, good to know.  I’m just going to kindly ask my rep to give me a call back when she knows more.  I feel like people on this board are probably more informed than most.  The call letting me know it’s coming “soon” is something I already know.


----------



## stwaldman

DonMacGregor said:


> Those are 100% "Hey, while I have you on the phone..." calls.


Agree, I usually screen them anyway for this reason.  my guide has always been respectful of having notes from past calls, so he hasn't tried to trap me on the phone to try and get me to buy aulani points to take my one year old on a 10 hour flight :-D


----------



## MICKIMINI

Lorana said:


> I tend to agree with you, but as President’s Day Week is winter break week for a lot of New England and I believe some other states, I was thinking they might announce to catch the hordes of us descending during that week. (We have a large friend and family group of 50 people going that week).


Wowza...I must have missed the invite LOL!  Have a blast!


----------



## Lorana

MICKIMINI said:


> Wowza...I must have missed the invite LOL!  Have a blast!


This trip was postponed twice!  We’re all determined to go, though crowd reports have me worried. All rooms except for 11 people we are providing with our points (though in fairness 6 people are renting from us).
I’d love to invite everyone here but my budget - and points! - only go so far. . Though if you’re in Disney at the time, we should meet up!


----------



## MICKIMINI

Lorana said:


> This trip was postponed twice!  We’re all determined to go, though crowd reports have me worried. All rooms except for 11 people we are providing with our points (though in fairness 6 people are renting from us).
> I’d love to invite everyone here but my budget - and points! - only go so far. . Though if you’re in Disney at the time, we should meet up!


Wouldn't that be a hoot!  You are amazing to coordinate that many people!  Our largest crowd was 9 and we were six (a 1 BR and 2 studios) in October.  It's like herding cats...


----------



## Lorana

MICKIMINI said:


> Wouldn't that be a hoot!  You are amazing to coordinate that many people!  Our largest crowd was 9 and we were six (a 1 BR and 2 studios) in October.  It's like herding cats...


IT. IS. I am very excited for this trip but will be so glad when I no longer have to plan it, LOL.

Also; we usually take very casual trips, partly because we’ve been so often and will be again. But for many of our friends and family, this is a first or second trip and they don’t necessarily plan to come again (unless we drag them), which means the schedule is PACKED. I told DH that I’m afraid I’ll fall asleep when we see the new Cirque show half way through, and that I’ll need like another week off to recover!


----------



## Sandisw

No sign of construction yet.  They did say Spring but nothing to even suggest work is being done.


----------



## TCRAIG

Sandisw said:


> No sign of construction yet.  They did say Spring but nothing to even suggest work is being done.


This is so weird - wonder if DVC is rethinking the room layout or amenities…


----------



## BWV Dreamin

TCRAIG said:


> This is so weird - wonder if DVC is rethinking the room layout or amenities…


One can only hope that they are rethinking the amenities. Don’t know if it’s feasible to create a split bath in those new units. But if all of this could be done, it will bring the new units up to par with the original VGF units. Since they are the same points per night, they may even need to rename them as “deluxe”. Then that would definitely create a demand for the newer units. Maybe only have a handful of “resort” studios where the structure would not allow for the conversions, and those with no balconies.


----------



## tjkraz

TCRAIG said:


> This is so weird - wonder if DVC is rethinking the room layout or amenities…



Changes to Big Pine Key don't appear to be more involved than the typical "soft goods" refurb. In 2021, they refurbed entire Poly longhouses in about 3-4 weeks apiece.


----------



## The Jackal

BWV Dreamin said:


> One can only hope that they are rethinking the amenities. Don’t know if it’s feasible to create a split bath in those new units. But if all of this could be done, it will bring the new units up to par with the original VGF units. Since they are the same points per night, they may even need to rename them as “deluxe”. Then that would definitely create a demand for the newer units. Maybe only have a handful of “resort” studios where the structure would not allow for the conversions, and those with no balconies.


The whole reason for the resort studio is cost.  If they split the bath, then it’s not much harder to add a sink for a deluxe studio. They do not want to spend the money on renovating, when they can do a soft goods refurbishment and sell it for over $200 pp.


----------



## Sandisw

TCRAIG said:


> This is so weird - wonder if DVC is rethinking the room layout or amenities…



I don’t think it’s that.  The rooms were just declared maybe that had to happen first before they can renovate.  

Plus, this change is an update and honestly, I don’t think they need all that time to simply do what they have proposed. They could start in April with an August opening and get at least half that building done because that is all that is needed right now based on the declaration.

I bet they finish it all of it by then.  Look how quickly they got both Poly and VGF done. I know this is slightly more work, but I think It’s doable even with nothing started yet.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

I feel like the original intel was March/April construction start for a Juneish opening?


----------



## TinkB278

Will they have a preview room available for viewing for prospective buyers prior to the rooms actually being ready? When I first heard about the new rooms I was all in but I’m starting to feel more Leary by the day. I’m also concerned with the potential noise in that building, although a preview room won’t help solve that one.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

TinkB278 said:


> Will they have a preview room available for viewing for prospective buyers prior to the rooms actually being ready?


I doubt it, but it will take 12-24 months to sell out, so you’ll have time to check it.


----------



## Nabas

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> I feel like the original intel was March/April construction start for a Juneish opening?


Origin announcement was for a spring opening and summer availability.

Depending on how Disney defines this, it could be 3 to 6 months from the beginning of construction to the end.


----------



## Sandisw

TinkB278 said:


> Will they have a preview room available for viewing for prospective buyers prior to the rooms actually being ready? When I first heard about the new rooms I was all in but I’m starting to feel more Leary by the day. I’m also concerned with the potential noise in that building, although a preview room won’t help solve that one.



I think what they will do is keep one of the first floor rooms as a model.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

Nabas said:


> Origin announcement was for a spring opening and summer availability.


“Projected to open Summer 2022” was the original phrasing. They never announced a construction timing.


----------



## Matty B13

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> “Projected to open Summer 2022” was the original phrasing. They never announced a construction timing.


So in Disney speak..... it means just before September 2022, possibly October 2022.


----------



## Nabas

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> “Projected to open Summer 2022” was the original phrasing. They never announced a construction timing.


The original announcement from Disney was:

We are excited to share plans to reimagine one building of existing hotel rooms at Disney’s Grand Floridian Resort & Spa into Disney Vacation Club Villas.​​*Starting next spring*, we plan to convert Big Pine Key (Building 9) at Disney’s Grand Floridian Resort & Spa into approximately 200 Resort Studios, each accommodating up to five people. Featuring the Victorian elegance and charm of Disney’s Grand Floridian Resort, these new Villas will offer Members luxury accommodations and amenities, with some Villas boasting stunning views of Bay Lake and Magic Kingdom. *Projected to open in summer 2022*, these new Villas are an expansion of The Villas at Disney’s Grand Floridian Resort and will be a part of its current condominium association.​​We look forward to sharing more information about the start of sales and rental bookings with our Members at a later date.​


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

Matty B13 said:


> So in Disney speak..... it means just before September 2022, possibly October 2022.


I dunno they said Summer 2019 for SWGE at Disneyland and it opened in May.


----------



## js

Do you guys know will this be under the regular bookings as GFV studio  or will this be it's own booking, 
kind of like WL with CC and BR.

We have stayed at GFVs many times, but it is getting harder to book the studios at 7 months so they may help, even a little once more studios open I'm guessing.

Thank you so much!


----------



## FinallyFL

js said:


> Do you guys know will this be under the regular bookings as GFV studio  or will this be it's own booking,
> kind of like WL with CC and BR.


It is it's own booking as a resort studio.


----------



## DonMacGregor

js said:


> Do you guys know will this be under the regular bookings as GFV studio  or will this be it's own booking,
> kind of like WL with CC and BR.


You're asking two separate questions (I think). It's its own booking _category _(resort studio versus studio), but it's in the same association as VGF (it's an add-on to VGF). CC and VWL are totally separate associations, even though they are both in WL.


----------



## Bjaiken77

So I got my DVC sales rep call on the Grand Floridian today….telling me they know nothing.  I wish it couldn’t have been a more productive call, but based on what I’ve been reading, I’m not surprised.


----------



## js

FinallyFL said:


> It is it's own booking as a resort studio.





DonMacGregor said:


> You're asking two separate questions (I think). It's its own booking _category _(resort studio versus studio), but it's in the same association as VGF (it's an add-on to VGF). CC and VWL are totally separate associations, even though they are both in WL.



Thank you both.
I'm sorry I didn't explain it correctly.
When I go to book GFVs, studio, will I just see studio and book or will there be two separate studios to chose from (in the DVC building or smaller one that is not in the DVC building). Will it just mean there will be 200 more GFV studios to book at any given time?

Thank you.


----------



## AGP

Does anyone know how many of these new  studios are being added versus how many there are of the existing studios, 1br, and 2brs there are?  I am trying to understand how much of VGF will there be of the 4 room types.  I think I saw like 200 “new” studios or so, but I’m not sure how large VGF is before those… will it be over half studios now?


----------



## KTownRaider

js said:


> When I go to book GFVs, studio, will I just see studio and book or will there be two separate studios to chose from (in the DVC building or smaller one that is not in the DVC building).



When you book VGF going forward, you'll see 2 separate studios options:

'Resort' Studios- 202 in Big Pine Key- subdivided by view: Std, Lake, Theme Park

'Deluxe' Studios- 47 in the current DVC building- subdivided by Std and Lake

This is how it's laid out on the point chart which should translate when you actually book.


----------



## CarolMN

js said:


> Thank you both.
> I'm sorry I didn't explain it correctly.
> When I go to book GFVs, studio, will I just see studio and book or will there be two separate studios to chose from (in the DVC building or smaller one that is not in the DVC building). Will it just mean there will be 200 more GFV studios to book at any given time?
> 
> Thank you.


You'll have 4 choices when booking a studio at VGF after the new resort studios are ready for occupancy:

Resort Studio Standard View (all in former Pine Key Bldg of GF)
Resort Studio Lake View (all in former Pine Key Bldg of GF)
Deluxe Studio Standard View (original DVC Bldg)
Deluxe Studio Lake View (original DVC Bldg)
ETA:
      5.  Deluxe Resort Studio Theme Park View  (all in former Pine Key Bldg of GF)


----------



## KTownRaider

AGP said:


> Does anyone know how many of these new studios are being added versus how many there are of the existing studios, 1br, and 2brs there are?


There are 202 new 'resort' studios being added.    The original DVC building accommodations are outlined below:



https://www.***********/page/villas-at-grand-floridian


----------



## KTownRaider

CarolMN said:


> You'll have 4 choices when booking a studio at VGF after the new resort studios are ready for occupancy:
> 
> Resort Studio Standard View (all in former Pine Key Bldg of GF)
> Resort Studio Lake View (all in former Pine Key Bldg of GF)
> Deluxe Studio Standard View (original DVC Bldg)
> Deluxe Studio Lake View (original DVC Bldg)


Don't forget Resort Studio Theme Park View


----------



## CarolMN

KTownRaider said:


> Don't forget Resort Studio Theme Park View


You're right!  We'll have 5 choices.


----------



## AGP

KTownRaider said:


> There are 202 new 'resort' studios being added.    The original DVC building accommodations are outlined below:
> 
> View attachment 646197
> 
> https://www.***********/page/villas-at-grand-floridian


Oh wow-  so there are only 100 total units right now?  So VGF will be heavily weighted to studios…over 80% (247 out of 300 if I’m reading this right).  So getting a 1 br will be very tough I’m guessing


----------



## KTownRaider

AGP said:


> So getting a 1 br will be very tough I’m guessing


Yes, future availability of 1 & 2 BRs is concern for some some current owners (including me)


----------



## Wedgeout

AGP said:


> Oh wow-  so there are only 100 total units right now?  So VGF will be heavily weighted to studios…over 80% (247 out of 300 if I’m reading this right).  So getting a 1 br will be very tough I’m guessing


Plus figure in that these are imitation studios. The actual studios with kitchenettes may disappear very quick with all the new booking competition. Smoke and mirrors calling these studios.


----------



## RoseGold

Wedgeout said:


> Plus figure in that these are imitation studios. The actual studios with kitchenettes may disappear very quick with all the new booking competition. Smoke and mirrors calling these studios.



But the new studios will be connecting.  I'll be there, booking a room for me and a room for grandma.  That wasn't possible at VGF1.  I had to put her on a sleeper sofa in the 1BR, or book two studios across the building from each other, which was impossible to get.  Two real beds, connecting rooms is big.  There are plenty of people who care more about that than the microwave.

The question is how many of the new points are going to want the bigger rooms, and we just don't know that yet.  The new studios might be in big demand, even for bigger parties.


----------



## Bjaiken77

I’m going to prefer the new studios to the one in VGF1.  More room and an additional bed.  We eat out most meals anyhow, so the kitchenette  only benefits is marginally.


----------



## DVCRad

Bjaiken77 said:


> I’m going to prefer the new studios to the one in VGF1.  More room and an additional bed.  We eat out most meals anyhow, so the kitchenette  only benefits is marginally.


I agree. The studio kitchenettes are tiny anyway. It’s not like you can easily cook full meals in them. I’d rather have the extra space and a connecting room. Now a 1 or 2 BR I’d expect a full kitchen.


----------



## AGP

I am choosing between new VGF or BLT..  I just love the atmosphere at VGF and have always wanted to buy there.. and at first I was thinking two studios would be great or just as good as a 1br (we don’t typically cook anyway at Disney)…. But then there is no washer/dryer, no king bed, sounds like no real refridgerator,  and what if they don’t honor my connecting room request- I wouldn’t want to have my kids away from us or have to split up from my husband…. So much to consider…. I would be one of the new buyers that would want to get 1brs. (Sorry to the existing owners- I would be mad as well!)


----------



## Nabas

AGP said:


> So getting a 1 br will be very tough I’m guessing


Maybe.

The unknowns are:

How many are booking a VGF1 1-Bedroom today when what they really wanted was a VGF1 Studio?
How many are buying into a VF2 Studio but actually want a VGF1 1-Bedroom?
We all know that Studios book up first, and 1-Bedrooms book up last.  Will the number of DVC members in Category #1 offset the number of DVC members in Category #2?


----------



## js

KTownRaider said:


> When you book VGF going forward, you'll see 2 separate studios options:
> 
> 'Resort' Studios- 202 in Big Pine Key- subdivided by view: Std, Lake, Theme Park
> 
> 'Deluxe' Studios- 47 in the current DVC building- subdivided by Std and Lake
> 
> This is how it's laid out on the point chart which should translate when you actually book.



Thank you very much for this!



CarolMN said:


> You'll have 4 choices when booking a studio at VGF after the new resort studios are ready for occupancy:
> 
> Resort Studio Standard View (all in former Pine Key Bldg of GF)
> Resort Studio Lake View (all in former Pine Key Bldg of GF)
> Deluxe Studio Standard View (original DVC Bldg)
> Deluxe Studio Lake View (original DVC Bldg)



Wow. Thank you!  I appreciate your breaking it down.


----------



## Bjaiken77

I know I shouldn’t be upset by this.  I know how Disney works.  But if they are going to have bookings in the Summer, why are we this far into the year without a single detail?

it drives people who are planners, like myself, crazy.  I suspect it drives most people on here crazy, as DVC is mostly about being an advanced planner (ie 11 months out).  Ok, that felt good to vent.


----------



## KTownRaider

AGP said:


> I would be one of the new buyers that would want to get 1brs.


If I were looking to book predominantly 1 BRs, I would take BLT for the win.  VGF (and DVC in general) is a lot of $$$ to still stress over getting the accommodations you want during your 7-11 month owner period.  Beyond better availability than VGF (there are ~147 1 BRs in BLT), the shorter walk to MK, and much better point chart-  the extra bathroom is a game changer.  When BLT eventually gets refurbed in 2023/2024 and replaces the 1 BR sofa bed with a murphy bed, the living room will become essentially a second pseudo bedroom/super studio with it's own full bathroom.    

Good luck with whatever you decide!


----------



## davidl81

Wedgeout said:


> Plus figure in that these are imitation studios. The actual studios with kitchenettes may disappear very quick with all the new booking competition. Smoke and mirrors calling these studios.


I tend to think the new rooms will be more popular than the VGF1 studios.  Basically trading a small bar sink and a microwave for a room with two queen beds, more square footage, potentially connecting rooms, all for the same points as VGF1.  Sure there will be some people who only travel with two people that will want to older setup, but of coupes traveling with kids I’d bet the two queen beds and more square footage wins out.


----------



## rubybutt

RoseGold said:


> But the new studios will be connecting.  I'll be there, booking a room for me and a room for grandma.  That wasn't possible at VGF1.  I had to put her on a sleeper sofa in the 1BR, or book two studios across the building from each other, which was impossible to get.  Two real beds, connecting rooms is big.  There are plenty of people who care more about that than the microwave.
> 
> The question is how many of the new points are going to want the bigger rooms, and we just don't know that yet.  The new studios might be in big demand, even for bigger parties.


You are supposed to take the sleeper sofa when you are with grandma.... everyone knows that!


----------



## DVCsloth

I think the 1br will be a lot more difficult to book at 7 months, especially standard view. We usually book 1br at 11 months so hoping VGF 2 doesn't upset the 11-month availability too much.
Not very excited about studios only and would have liked to have seen the new rooms be slightly less or a separate association altogether. Only good thing is we may be able to book early December studios again, at least until they sell out.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

DVCsloth said:


> I think the 1br will be a lot more difficult to book at 7 months, especially standard view. We usually book 1br at 11 months so hoping VGF 2 doesn't upset the 11-month availability too much.
> Not very excited about studios only and would have liked to have seen the new rooms be slightly less or a separate association altogether. Only good thing is we may be able to book early December studios again, at least until they sell out.


I added on last April to alternate studios and one bedrooms. Will see just how bad the demand for 1 bedrooms are when I go to book next fall.


----------



## zebsterama

Depending on the price (let me repeat that -- depending on the price  ), our plan will likely be to  purchase (if available) a FW studio (even a lake view would work for us) in VGF1, and combine with our non-direct points to book a 1 bedroom going forward with our direct/non-direct points.
The FW would be our back-up.

I guess we'll see when it's time to put the $$ on the table, how serious we really are.

I'm hoping 11 months out will not be overly difficult to get a 1 bedroom at VGF going forward.
Think happy thoughts!


----------



## Marionnette

zebsterama said:


> Depending on the price (let me repeat that -- depending on the price  ), our plan will likely be to  purchase (if available) a FW studio (even a lake view would work for us) in VGF1, and combine with our non-direct points to book a 1 bedroom going forward with our direct/non-direct points.
> The FW would be our back-up.
> 
> I guess we'll see when it's time to put the $$ on the table, how serious we really are.
> 
> I'm hoping 11 months out will not be overly difficult to get a 1 bedroom at VGF going forward.
> Think happy thoughts!


Could you purchase a FW in VGF1? Because technically, all of those units are deeded out to existing owners. I'm curious to see how that might play out.


----------



## RoseGold

Marionnette said:


> Could you purchase a FW in VGF1? Because technically, all of those units are deeded out to existing owners. I'm curious to see how that might play out.



The FW are contractual, not deeded.  They are allowed to sell a percentage by room count.  You don't have to have a deed on the unit that you have a FW for.  VGF has surprisingly few FW out.

I would bet most, if not all VGF FW, are still available, even in the VGF1 booking categories.  It was such a new product when it was being sold, and at the time, it had a surcharge.  I'd be interested in the math of the FW.  From CCV, it seems like the math is based on the chart at the time the resort opened, which is an interesting wrinkle in time for this.


----------



## Robert Stoddart

RoseGold said:


> The FW are contractual, not deeded.  They are allowed to sell a percentage by room count.  You don't have to have a deed on the unit that you have a FW for.  VGF has surprisingly few FW out.
> 
> I would bet most, if not all VGF FW, are still available, even in the VGF1 booking categories.  It was such a new product when it was being sold, and at the time, it had a surcharge.  I'd be interested in the math of the FW.  From CCV, it seems like the math is based on the chart at the time the resort opened, which is an interesting wrinkle in time for this.


There is a "resort inception chart" that the fixed weeks are based off.  In some cases, especially later in the year - the math works well in favour for fixed weeks.  I wish we'd known a bit more about them when buying VGF, but was a super new offering to be sure.


----------



## RebelScum

I have an April Use Year . . . So hoping sales start before then.  Would love to get the added points from this year and next, which is less than 2 months away.  Of course, all this assumes it is priced right!


----------



## BWV Dreamin

FYI, Disney beat earnings estimates as reported yesterday. No reason DVC needs to sell VGF cheap. They ain't hurtin one bit.


----------



## Ssplashhmtn

Wedgeout said:


> Plus figure in that these are imitation studios. The actual studios with kitchenettes may disappear very quick with all the new booking competition. Smoke and mirrors calling these studios.



I much prefer the new (aka vgf2) studios.   Not sure what’s ”imitation” about them, but I definitely like them better from the floor plan, drawings, layout, and location.


----------



## Jwaire

BWV Dreamin said:


> FYI, Disney beat earnings estimates as reported yesterday. No reason DVC needs to sell VGF cheap. They ain't hurtin one bit.



Was it expected to be cheap? I thought most of the discussion was whether or not it's going to come in below or above Riviera's current pricing.



Ssplashhmtn said:


> I much prefer the new (aka vgf2) studios.   Not sure what’s ”imitation” about them, but I definitely like them better from the floor plan, drawings, layout, and location.



I'm not sure I prefer it, but I do like that we will now have an additional option in the collection. I know they did it primarily to save costs, but it's nice to have other room configurations other than 1 bed, 1 murphy available. I think they'll be popular with families that travel with older children, grandparents, etc.


----------



## zebsterama

RebelScum said:


> I have an April Use Year . . . So hoping sales start before then.  Would love to get the added points from this year and next, which is less than 2 months away.  Of course, all this assumes it is priced right!




We've got a March UY .... not looking good  .... oh well -- first world problems.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

Jwaire said:


> Was it expected to be cheap? I thought most of the discussion was whether or not it's going to come in below or above Riviera's .


Much speculation as to the opening price. Opening up at the current Riviera price is considered "cheap". IMO, Riviera is not on par with VGF and DVC could( and maybe will) get much more for VGF. As Ive said all along Disney is not gonna leave money on the table. YMMV.


----------



## Nabas

Jwaire said:


> Was it expected to be cheap? I thought most of the discussion was whether or not it's going to come in below or above Riviera's current pricing.


I think most of the guesses are that it will be at RIV prices or slightly above it, maybe 10% above.

But strong earnings could embolden Disney management.

My opinion is that it’s easy to quickly raise prices if demand is hot.  It’s a lot tougher to offer meaningful discounts if sales are weak.  (Deep discounts call into question the entire product. “Gee, no one wants to buy it.  What’s wrong with it?”)

RIV sales have not been particularly strong for a long time now. I’m not sure it makes sense for Disney to jump in with both feet right away with VGF2.  Maybe see how the first month of sales go and make a decision from there?

Disney announcing, “Due to incredible demand, we are increasing the price of VGF2 by $20pp” is one thing.  Reporting poor first month sales requires an entirely different spin.


----------



## Royal Consort

BWV Dreamin said:


> FYI, Disney beat earnings estimates as reported yesterday. No reason DVC needs to sell VGF cheap. They ain't hurtin one bit.



Disney is a large company containing a number of different divisions. Some divisions can perform well but that doesn't mean all divisions will. It's unknown whether DVD is performing to internal targets and profit margins. That directs the price, not the success of the company as a whole.


----------



## RamblinWreck

BWV Dreamin said:


> FYI, Disney beat earnings estimates as reported yesterday. No reason DVC needs to sell VGF cheap. They ain't hurtin one bit.


I don't think any of the pricing guesses had anything to do with Disney's current financials.

They will price it in the way that they think will work out best for them.

Which will most likely be in line with RIV, in my opinion.


----------



## macman123

I really think they will be the current direct rate, but with some incentives.......


----------



## PinkPixel

macman123 said:


> I really think they will be the current direct rate, but with some incentives.......


You can’t buy VGF, I tried multiple times this year.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

PinkPixel said:


> You can’t buy VGF, I tried multiple times this year.


Which begs the question. If Disney plans on an opening price near Riviera’s direct price, why not capitalize on those that want to purchase at $255/pt, ? I think it has nothing to do with caring about our feelings if they come in lower at the open ( finances are non-emotional with businesses).


----------



## Nabas

BWV Dreamin said:


> Which begs the question. If Disney plans on an opening price near Riviera’s direct price, why not capitalize on those that want to purchase at $255/pt? I think it has nothing to do with caring about our feelings if they come in lower at the open (finances are non-emotional with businesses).


The guess is that Disney does not want to sell a relatively small number of VGF1 points at $255pp and anger a bunch of DVC members once they start selling VGF2 at a much lower price.

At $255pp, VGF was selling on average about 2200 points per month.  At $255 per point, there are a small number of buyers.

An actively marketed (and lower priced) DVC resort frequently sells over 100,000 points per month.

From Disney's perspective (and looking at this simplistically):

$255 per point X 2200 points per month = $561,000 per month
$207 per point X 100,000 points per month = $20,700,000 per month
So even 12 months of VGF1 sales ($561,000 X 12 = $6,732,000) is a fraction of a single month of VGF2 sales.

In fact, the actual amount of lost revenue is really the difference: ($255 - $207) X 2200 X 12 = $1,267,200.

So for about $100K per month, avoid the headache, build up the reserve of VGF1 points, and wait for VGF2 to go for sale.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

I still think it has nothing to do about angering any members ( plenty of that going on already, ie: no annual passes, 50% borrowing rule, etc). There is some other logic that we just don’t have privy to.


----------



## Nabas

BWV Dreamin said:


> I still think it has nothing to do about angering any members ( plenty of that going on already, ie: no annual passes, 50% borrowing rule, etc). There is some other logic that we just don’t have privy to.


Right, create a backlog of demand so that VGF2 sells like gangbusters right out of the gate.  Impress your boss with strong sales rather than go through gyrations explaining why sales did not meet expectations.

Behind closed doors, business is very emotional, even if everyone in the room pretends that it is not.  It's all about perception.  You sure as heck want to impress The Powers That Be.

Internal expectations almost certainly are that VGF2 will be a cash cow.  That's a high bar to have to meet.


----------



## mort1331

BWV Dreamin said:


> I still think it has nothing to do about angering any members ( plenty of that going on already, ie: no annual passes, 50% borrowing rule, etc). There is some other logic that we just don’t have privy to.


This is true about the collective here...but we are a small minority...the majority dont know the ins and outs even after owning for years. But if it gets out that they bought a product $40 more per point just a couple of months before, well then they could be very vocal as to why were they not told to wait for the reduction in price,,or want that lower price now.
Just messy for min payout.


----------



## SusieQ93

Nabas said:


> At $255pp, VGF was selling on average about 2200 points per month.  At $255 per point, there are a small number of buyers.
> 
> An actively marketed (and lower priced) DVC resort frequently sells over 100,000 points per month.
> association.


That’s really interesting. Curious, how do you find that sales data? I assume maybe there’s some kind of public record with it being tied to a condo


----------



## Sandisw

BWV Dreamin said:


> Which begs the question. If Disney plans on an opening price near Riviera’s direct price, why not capitalize on those that want to purchase at $255/pt, ? I think it has nothing to do with caring about our feelings if they come in lower at the open ( finances are non-emotional with businesses).



I think the fact that they have not continued to sell supports the lower price.

I also think that the new sales for January might help to to see how things are going.


----------



## Nabas

SusieQ93 said:


> That’s really interesting. Curious, how do you find that sales data? I assume maybe there’s some kind of public record with it being tied to a condo association.


dvcnews.com reports monthly direct sales data.

Here's a graph of sales for the actively marketed WDW DVC resorts since 2013:


----------



## SusieQ93

Nabas said:


> dvcnews.com reports monthly direct sales data.
> 
> Here's a graph of sales for the actively marketed WDW DVC resorts since 2013:
> 
> View attachment 646572


 Cool! Thanks for sharing!


----------



## Sandisw

BWV Dreamin said:


> I still think it has nothing to do about angering any members ( plenty of that going on already, ie: no annual passes, 50% borrowing rule, etc). There is some other logic that we just don’t have privy to.



I also think it’s so they can sell points from the start that new buyers can book in the short term and not wait for the new studios to open.

Current VGF points will be available for that use.

As a side note, I talked to one of the DVC people at RIV this week and mentioned VGF and my interest vs more RIV.

He was very neutral when talking the two up and played up how both are great resorts and that when they start sales there will be both an MK and Epcot option.

Now, I don’t think that means anything regarding price but I do think trying to sell DVC won’t be easy if you have a huge price difference between the two.


----------



## Lorana

VGF1 still had FWs available weeks 48 through 52 in early 2021 when we debated whether to get another FW. 

What I’d be on the watch for in a couple years time is if they’ll pull the shenanigans here that they did at SSR with treehouses, and raise VGF1 studios To lower VGF2 studios, or vice-versa. (Note, they can’t do that - VGF1 and VGF2 are separately deeded units and their point totals for the year cannot increase. That, however, did not stop DVC from illegally raising THVs to lower 2BRs).


----------



## Bjaiken77

Do you think maybe we get a Friday announcement?  On something?


----------



## DVChris

Bjaiken77 said:


> Do you think maybe we get a Friday announcement?  On something?


I spoke with a CM this week and they hinted that GF2 would not be announced in the next week. I inferred that it would be much longer (since it seemed like they knew when but couldn't tell me) so my guess now is when Disney announces the next round of incentives after 3/2 - - so after the BLT promo ends.


----------



## nuhusky123

DVChris said:


> I spoke with a CM this week and they hinted that GF2 would not be announced in the next week. I inferred that it would be much longer (since it seemed like they knew when but couldn't tell me) so my guess now is when Disney announces the next round of incentives after 3/2 - - so after the BLT promo ends.


At this point I want them to delay until annual passes are back. So let this sit


----------



## Jimmy Geppetto

DVChris said:


> I spoke with a CM this week and they hinted that GF2 would not be announced in the next week. I inferred that it would be much longer (since it seemed like they knew when but couldn't tell me) so my guess now is when Disney announces the next round of incentives after 3/2 - - so after the BLT promo ends.



Which leaves me to believe the VGF2 price will be the same if not lower.


----------



## DVChris

Jimmy Geppetto said:


> Which leaves me to believe the VGF2 price will be the same if not lower.


Same if not lower than RIV? Or the current VG1 of $255? 
My guess is that the base will stay at $255 and they will have incentives from there.


----------



## Jimmy Geppetto

DVChris said:


> Same if not lower than RIV? Or the current VG1 of $255?
> My guess is that the base will stay at $255 and they will have incentives from there.



I think they will keep the base price of $255 the same, and just play with incentives.  I'm predicting the discount will be the same if not better than BLTs promotion ($48+pp), along with a new RIV promotion that prices it equally.


----------



## CarolMN

Jimmy Geppetto said:


> I think they will keep the base price of $255 the same, and just play with incentives.  I'm predicting the discount will be the same if not better than BLTs promotion ($48+pp), along with a new RIV promotion that prices it equally.


That would be disappointing to those of us who would like an add-on contract of less than 100 points.  I'm hoping the price will be much less than the current $255 and a lot closer to to the Riviera's $207.


----------



## Bjaiken77

CarolMN said:


> That would be disappointing to those of us who would like an add-on contract of less than 100 points.  I'm hoping the price will be much less than the current $255 and a lot closer to to the Riviera's $207.


I find that unfortunate as well.  I’d prefer a low base price.  However, if the incentives are similar to BLT (a good price break at 200 points), I’ll still likely do it.  I’m just waiting on those numbers.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

Jimmy Geppetto said:


> I think they will keep the base price of $255 the same, and just play with incentives.  I'm predicting the discount will be the same if not better than BLTs promotion ($48+pp), along with a new RIV promotion that prices it equally.


I am thinking this is the path they will take as well.


----------



## Paul Stupin

Jimmy Geppetto said:


> I think they will keep the base price of $255 the same, and just play with incentives.  I'm predicting the discount will be the same if not better than BLTs promotion ($48+pp), along with a new RIV promotion that prices it equally.


Hadn‘t thought of that possibility, but in that case the incentive for new buyers of 150 point contracts might not get the price low enough to ignite sales. I’m still thinking the base price will be equivalent to Riviera’s. Am worried, though. What will we all have to debate when the price is finally announced??


----------



## smmora

Paul Stupin said:


> Hadn‘t thought of that possibility, but in that case the incentive for new buyers of 150 point contracts might not get the price low enough to ignite sales. I’m still thinking the base price will be equivalent to Riviera’s. Am worried, though. What will we all have to debate when the price is finally announced??


DLT pricing and point chart


----------



## Jimmy Geppetto

Paul Stupin said:


> Hadn‘t thought of that possibility, but in that case the incentive for new buyers of 150 point contracts might not get the price low enough to ignite sales. I’m still thinking the base price will be equivalent to Riviera’s.



$255 minus $65pp is a lot easier to sell than $207 minus $17pp.  But it would insinuate that VGF is superior to RIV.  



Paul Stupin said:


> What will we all have to debate when the price is finally announced??



That's easy!  DLT's starting price and whether Disney will sell Aulani!


----------



## Paul Stupin

Jimmy Geppetto said:


> $255 minus $65pp is a lot easier to sell than $207 minus $17pp.  But it would insinuate that VGF is superior to RIV.
> 
> 
> 
> That's easy!  DLT's starting price and whether Disney will sell Aulani!


$65 off seems like it would apply more to large point purchases, but who knows! And you’re right, DLT can keep us going for a good year or two! And, yeah, that whole selling Aulani topic is always lurking around somewhere.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

smmora said:


> DLT pricing and point chart


Hopefully after VGF comes out with a price the crazy expectations on DHV pricing will subside.


----------



## CarolynFH

Lorana said:


> VGF1 still had FWs available weeks 48 through 52 in early 2021 when we debated whether to get another FW.
> 
> What I’d be on the watch for in a couple years time is if they’ll pull the shenanigans here that they did at SSR with treehouses, and raise VGF1 studios To lower VGF2 studios, or vice-versa. (Note, they can’t do that - VGF1 and VGF2 are separately deeded units and their point totals for the year cannot increase. That, however, did not stop DVC from illegally raising THVs to lower 2BRs).


Knowing how many owners analyze every new point chart in such depth now, they might try it, but I’m not sure they’d get away with it like they did with SSR.


----------



## Sandisw

Jimmy Geppetto said:


> $255 minus $65pp is a lot easier to sell than $207 minus $17pp.  But it would insinuate that VGF is superior to RIV.
> 
> 
> 
> That's easy!  DLT's starting price and whether Disney will sell Aulani!



Any big difference in price would make it much harder to sell because they just want to sell and want both products to be equally great.

Plus every resort has its pluses and VGF being superior to RIV is subjective.

That is not something a sales person is going to want to have to try and explain.

I really hope we see similar pricing.


----------



## Nabas

Sandisw said:


> Any big difference in price would make it much harder to sell because they just want to sell and want both products to be equally great.
> 
> Plus every resort has its pluses and VGF being superior to RIV is subjective.
> 
> That is not something a sales person is going to want to have to try and explain.
> 
> I really hope we see similar pricing.


Based on previous offerings, I suspect Guides are going to want to sell VGF2 and RIV as equally wonderful.  One gets you on the Monorail to the Magic Kingdom and Epcot. The other gets you on the Skyliner to DHS an Epcot.  (And Disney really has been pushing the Skyliner.)

VGF is at the flagship resort (for now).  RIV is the newest resort.

As we've seen on these threads, there's definitely a group of existing DVC members who think RIV is better than VGF.

Offering them at the same price, at least initially, makes a great deal of sense.


----------



## Sandisw

Nabas said:


> Based on previous offerings, I suspect Guides are going to want to sell VGF2 and RIV as equally wonderful.  One gets you on the Monorail to the Magic Kingdom and Epcot. The other gets you on the Skyliner to DHS an Epcot.  (And Disney really has been pushing the Skyliner.)
> 
> VGF is at the flagship resort (for now).  RIV is the newest resort.
> 
> As we've seen on these threads, there's definitely a group of existing DVC members who think RIV is better than VGF.
> 
> Offering them at the same price, at least initially, makes a great deal of sense.



And that was the experience I had this week with the person at the desk at RIV.  Promoting both to me as unique and that each will offer something wonderful!


----------



## BWV Dreamin

Sandisw said:


> Any big difference in price would make it much harder to sell because they just want to sell and want both products to be equally great.
> 
> Plus every resort has its pluses and VGF being superior to RIV is subjective.
> 
> That is not something a sales person is going to want to have to try and explain.
> 
> I really hope we see similar pricing.


All the sales person has to mention ( and they should) is VGF2 comes with no restrictions ( if you want to make all else equal). That right there makes VGF2 a more superior product.


----------



## Sandisw

BWV Dreamin said:


> All the sales person has to mention ( and they should) is VGF2 comes with no restrictions ( if you want to make all else equal). That right there makes VGF2 a more superior product.



I am not sure most buyers care about that when buying or that is going to be worth buying something for $7k more at a minimum, for a studio heavy resort that lasts 6 years left, and will cost more points to stay at. 

Again, they want to sell and don’t care which resort it is.  Not sure that they are going to phrase anything as a negative to pit one against the other.  

As I shared, my current experience seems to indicate that as the goal. To sell each as a great choice. 

I guess we will see soon!


----------



## BWV Dreamin

Sandisw said:


> I am not sure most buyers care about that when buying or that is going to be worth buying something for $7k more at a minimum, for a studio heavy resort that lasts 6 years left, and will cost more points to stay at.
> 
> Again, they want to sell and don’t care which resort it is.  Not sure that they are going to phrase anything as a negative to pit one against the other.
> 
> As I shared, my current experience seems to indicate that as the goal. To sell each as a great choice.
> 
> I guess we will see soon!


Mentioning restrictions is not negative. It is the responsibility of the sales agent to act in a fiduciary manor by informing the potential buyer all the facts. It’s not a subjective matter.


----------



## Nabas

BWV Dreamin said:


> All the sales person has to mention ( and they should) is VGF2 comes with no restrictions ( if you want to make all else equal). That right there makes VGF2 a more superior product.


Depends on how they want to spin it.

They also could mention VGF2 is a 35 year old building while RIV is less than 3 years old.

Or they could mention the VGF2 rooms are larger.

Or they could mention that RIV has the fold down bed plus the Murphy bed under the tv.

Or they could mention VGF2 has 2 queen beds.

Or they could mention how much nicer the RIV bathrooms are.

Or they could…

My point is, VGF2 and RIV each have their pluses and minuses.  What one person values could be different than what someone else values.

Personally, I don’t put much weight on the booking restrictions *when* *buying* *direct from Disney.  *I suspect most direct buyers don’t plan to sell at the time of their purchase.  They are just so excited about their purchase!  Most (not all) are not particularly concerned about how resale restrictions will impact the price if and when they decide to sell many years from now.

There are always exceptions but I suspect most buy into DVC with no intention of selling.  So resale restrictions simply don’t matter to the vast majority at the time of purchase.


----------



## Royal Consort

BWV Dreamin said:


> All the sales person has to mention ( and they should) is VGF2 comes with no restrictions ( if you want to make all else equal). That right there makes VGF2 a more superior product.



Don't know if the average buyer has the mentality of the Disboards. Whenever I was signing at the preview centre they were selling a few contracts to people who didn't appear to be asking many questions. Restrictions are a big thing _here_. As for a superior product, I think that is subjective. There's an argument to be made for more years and an increased option of room sizes vs a heavy studio focus. YMMV.

They're also not going to market one of their resorts as a poor option. Just ain't happening. Buyers will be informed of the restrictions after they have emotionally bought in when they are signing the paperwork. Guides will assess the consumer and sell either of these two great resorts accordingly. If the consumer is already wedded to VGF, then they will make this sound like a superior option _for that customer._

When we were buying, they asked us our favourite park (MK) and we were escorted to a room with a MK wallpaper - bingo, great candidate for VGF. A customer prefers EP or HS? Boom, RVA.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

Royal Consort said:


> Don't know if the average buyer has the mentality of the Disboards. Whenever I was signing at the preview centre they were selling a few contracts to people who didn't appear to be asking many questions. Restrictions are a big thing _here_. As for a superior product, I think that is subjective. There's an argument to be made for more years and an increased option of room sizes vs a heavy studio focus. YMMV.
> 
> They're also not going to market one of their resorts as a poor option. Just ain't happening. Buyers will be informed of the restrictions after they have emotionally bought in when they are signing the paperwork. Guides will assess the consumer and sell either of these two great resorts accordingly. If the consumer is already wedded to VGF, then they will make this sound like a superior option _for that customer._
> 
> When we were buying, they asked us our favourite park (MK) and we were escorted to a room with a MK wallpaper - bingo, great candidate for VGF. A customer prefers EP or HS? Boom, RVA.


Omitting a fact such as restrictions is a violation and if it is not mentioned, at least in writing, there would be cause to file suit against the salesperson ( DVC agent and broker Disney). So, this is a material fact that must be presented prior to signing. Restrictions are not on par with the various wallpaper in the rooms. DVC agents have to do due diligence and present the fact. How it is perceived ( negative, etc) is subjective.


----------



## Sandisw

BWV Dreamin said:


> Mentioning restrictions is not negative. It is the responsibility of the sales agent to act in a fiduciary manor by informing the potential buyer all the facts. It’s not a subjective matter.



I was responding to your post where you said no restrictions made it a superior product and that a guide could use that to help justify a higher price.

In that respect, guides would then be forced to choose how to sell one over the other.

Similar pricing prevents that and as you say, they say one has X and the other has Y.

Of course, regardless of whether it’s mentioned, all owners are given a specific document that outlines it so they can’t buy RIV without being informed.  That document must be signed as part of the purchase so you can’t buy RIV without knowing it is part of the contract.

It just makes little sense to me for DVD to have the point of view that they believe one resort is worth more than the other and any huge piece difference does that.

Like I said, how does a guide answer the new buyers question  of “ What makes VGF worth so much more than RIV when you just said I can trade anywhere at 7 months?”


----------



## Bjaiken77

Sandisw said:


> I was responding to your post where you said no restrictions made it a superior product and that a guide could use that to help justify a higher price.
> 
> In that respect, guides would then be forced to choose how to sell one over the other.
> 
> Similar pricing prevents that and as you say, they say one has X and the other has Y.
> 
> Of course, regardless if whether it’s mentioned, all owners are given a specific document that outlines it so they can’t buy RIV without being informed.  That document must be signed as part of the purchase so you can’t buy RIV without knowing it is part of the contract.
> 
> It just makes little sense to me for DVD to have the point of view that they believe one resort is worth more than the other and any huge piece difference does that.
> 
> Like I said, how does a guide answer the new buyers question  of “ What makes VGF worth so much more than RIV when you just said it can trade anywhere at 7 months?”



yeah, I don’t know if this is more of my own personal hope or if it’s Disney’s logic.  If they are going to sell multiple properties at once, it would seem odd for one to be disproportionally out of line with the others.  That is, of course, until they sell out.  Then, anything is fair game.

I’ve been to Aulani, VGF, and RIV.  To me, I can’t say any one resort is “better” than the others.  It comes down to personal preference.  I think all three are excellent.


----------



## Brian Noble

BWV Dreamin said:


> It is the responsibility of the sales agent to act in a fiduciary manor by informing the potential buyer all the facts





BWV Dreamin said:


> Omitting a fact such as restrictions is a violation and if it is not mentioned, at least in writing, there would be cause to file suit against the salesperson


There is a big difference between the sales patter---which may not cover RIV restrictions unless directly asked*---and the Big Pile of Paper that buyers initial stating that they have read and understood each one. Every sale will include the Big Pile of Paper, and the buyer will have to sign/initial. Usually, those initals are inscribed without the buyer actually reading them, let alone understanding them, but c'est la vie. And, for what it's worth the Big Pile of Paper might well now be distributed via docusign.

Also I'd be surprised if a sales agent has a fiduciary duty to the buyer, which is not the same thing as having a duty to disclose certain facts.

-------
*: I suppose the most likely reason it might come up is if the prospect mentions any awareness of the resale market.


----------



## davidl81

BWV Dreamin said:


> Omitting a fact such as restrictions is a violation and if it is not mentioned, at least in writing, there would be cause to file suit against the salesperson ( DVC agent and broker Disney). So, this is a material fact that must be presented prior to signing. Restrictions are not on par with the various wallpaper in the rooms. DVC agents have to do due diligence and present the fact. How it is perceived ( negative, etc) is subjective.


You 100% have to sign a document about the resale restrictions, and your guide has no obligation to talk about resale restrictions during their presentation.  It makes all of the sense in the world that RIV and VGF2 are priced the same based on every other time Disney has offered a new resort it was priced in line with the current on sale resort, and the pitch that RIV is the Epcot lovers resort and VGF is the MK lovers resort.
Pricing VGF higher than RIV makes absolutely no logical sense and would be counter to anything DVC has done in the past.


----------



## DVCsloth

I did prefer VGF over Riviera, but now with the studio only VGF2 I would probably give the edge to Riviera over VGF.


----------



## DVCsloth

Still love my VGF though! Still get excited every time I book it and check in. Loved being able to book Riviera right at 7 months for an SV studio for 4 days and an SV 1BR for a week! Probably won't be able to do that very often in the future no that we are hopefully getting back to normal. Still get to book VGF and CCV at 11 months every year!


----------



## SusieQ93

Sandisw said:


> I also think it’s so they can sell points from the start that new buyers can book in the short term and not wait for the new studios to open.
> 
> Current VGF points will be available for that use.
> 
> As a side note, I talked to one of the DVC people at RIV





Sandisw said:


> Any big difference in price would make it much harder to sell because they just want to sell and want both products to be equally great.
> 
> Plus every resort has its pluses and VGF being superior to RIV is subjective.
> 
> That is not something a sales person is going to want to have to try and explain.
> 
> I really hope we see similar pricing.


I agree with you. Also haven’t been to Riviera but was looking at photos and I think it’s a truly beautiful resort and brand new. I don’t think they want to or should sell it as an inferior product.


----------



## nuhusky123

Am I alone having second thoughts about buying gfv regardless of price?

disney just had a banner quarter, predictions being 2022 will be a great year for park attendance meaning Disney continues to have a great fiscal.

why does this matter. Well disney has taken away perks and raised prices on everything. Despite this revenue is up.

chapek knows what he has and has even announced he expects prices to go up even more in 23.

perks will continue to be removed, prices will go up and up. Disney clearly prefers ticket holders over annual so what if they remove annual passes and stop renewals. They could, they would make more money and the punters will continue to go. More money, higher stock prices

i love Disney world, truly it’s my happy place. But buying into dvc given this, I’m really on the fence


----------



## SusieQ93

nuhusky123 said:


> Am I alone having second thoughts about buying gfv regardless of price?
> 
> disney just had a banner quarter, predictions being 2022 will be a great year for park attendance meaning Disney continues to have a great fiscal.
> 
> why does this matter. Well disney has taken away perks and raised prices on everything. Despite this revenue is up.
> 
> chapek knows what he has and has even announced he expects prices to go up even more in 23.
> 
> perks will continue to be removed, prices will go up and up. Disney clearly prefers ticket holders over annual so what if they remove annual passes and stop renewals. They could, they would make more money and the punters will continue to go. More money, higher stock prices
> 
> i love Disney world, truly it’s my happy place. But buying into dvc given this, I’m really on the fence


I’ve definitely had some second thoughts. But ultimately think I want to buy in still. I’ve wanted DVC for a long time (not a current owner) and I think I will regret passing it up. If I change my mind in the future, I know I can sell or rent my points. Or even just take a year off and bank. I will always love Disney. There will always be ups and downs and changes, but I’ll keep going back. And I actually prefer Genie+ to free fast pass. I know the horror!


----------



## Sandisw

nuhusky123 said:


> Am I alone having second thoughts about buying gfv regardless of price?
> 
> disney just had a banner quarter, predictions being 2022 will be a great year for park attendance meaning Disney continues to have a great fiscal.
> 
> why does this matter. Well disney has taken away perks and raised prices on everything. Despite this revenue is up.
> 
> chapek knows what he has and has even announced he expects prices to go up even more in 23.
> 
> perks will continue to be removed, prices will go up and up. Disney clearly prefers ticket holders over annual so what if they remove annual passes and stop renewals. They could, they would make more money and the punters will continue to go. More money, higher stock prices
> 
> i love Disney world, truly it’s my happy place. But buying into dvc given this, I’m really on the fence



If price is close to RIV, we will still buy VGF. We won’t go resale because we want unrestricted points.

If we have to do tickets vs AP, we will adjust. If the price is near the sold out price? Then we will add on more RIV and hope to get rooms at VGF like we do now.


----------



## BrianLo

BWV Dreamin said:


> All the sales person has to mention ( and they should) is VGF2 comes with no restrictions ( if you want to make all else equal). That right there makes VGF2 a more superior product.



Riv also comes with no restrictions (when you buy from Disney). It's kind of meaningless in the sales pitch for a direct buyer, they aren't impacted.

It of course MAY effect resale price, but guides are hardly pushing this one might be worth more than that one 10 years from now. They make no promises and they aren't investments. Both could also be worth far less in 10 years than the market would dictate.

The genius on Disney's part is not that restrictions are bad for direct, they are bad for resale.


----------



## New Mouse

BrianLo said:


> The genius on Disney's part is not that restrictions are bad for direct, they are bad for resale.



If you buy an audi, would you hesitate if they told you that when you sell it, 90% of the features would be removed?

Resale restrictions are very bad for direct sales in any sectors.   Very few people are coming in dropping $30k plus without wondering about the future.


----------



## Jimmy Geppetto

New Mouse said:


> If you buy an audi, would you hesitate if they told you that when you sell it, 90% of the features would be removed?
> 
> Resale restrictions are very bad for direct sales in any sectors.   Very few people are coming in dropping $30k plus without wondering about the future.



While I agree that the restrictions are bad for both resale and direct, unfortunately there are quite a few people dropping $30k without worrying about the restrictions in the future. The monthly sales data for direct RIV sales proves that.
What if the slack in RIV sales (compared to other resorts sales history when they were launched) was primarily due to the pandemic?  If sales take off shortly after the pandemic eases will we still say restrictions are causing people to think twice?


----------



## New Mouse

Jimmy Geppetto said:


> While I agree that the restrictions are bad for both resale and direct, unfortunately there are quite a few people dropping $30k without worrying about the restrictions in the future. The monthly sales data for direct RIV sales proves that.
> What if the slack in RIV sales (compared to other resorts sales history when they were launched) was primarily due to the pandemic?  If sales take off shortly after the pandemic eases will we still say restrictions are causing people to think twice?



Yes because there is no metric to say where sales would have been if they didn't have restrictions.     I was one sale they didn't get because of them.   I'm sure there are many others.


----------



## SusieQ93

New Mouse said:


> If you buy an audi, would you hesitate if they told you that when you sell it, 90% of the features would be removed?
> 
> Resale restrictions are very bad for direct sales in any sectors.   Very few people are coming in dropping $30k plus without wondering about the future.


I do see what you’re saying, but there still is a resale market for Riviera. I see people talking about purchasing Riviera resale in other groups, so there is a market of resale buyer who don’t care about the restrictions and would be happy to just stay at Riviera.

Currently I see a few listing around $150pp. So about 75% of the purchase price. After fees, probably more like 70%. Once you hit your break even point, even if you only could sell your contract for 50% of the original purchase price, you’ve still vacationed at a deep discount for several years.

If you try to sell that Audi in 7 or 8 years, you’re going to get far less than what you paid for it. Just like cars aren’t an investment, I don’t think people should look at DVC as an investment - you potentially can make money by selling later, but I don’t think you should count on it. DVC to me, is prepaid vacationing with a guaranteed discount. I feel better purchasing knowing I do have an out if I absolutely have to sell. But I much better like the idea of going to Disney for years and years in the future and if I tire of going later in life I plan to give it to my son. I don’t plan to sell unless there is financial trouble and I’m forced to sell.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

New Mouse said:


> If you buy an audi, would you hesitate if they told you that when you sell it, 90% of the features would be removed?
> 
> Resale restrictions are very bad for direct sales in any sectors.   Very few people are coming in dropping $30k plus without wondering about the future.





New Mouse said:


> Yes because there is no metric to say where sales would have been if they didn't have restrictions.     I was one sale they didn't get because of them.   I'm sure there are many others.


Myself as well. If the restrictions had no affect on the product, they would have continued it with VGF. Maybe because it’s part of the same association they couldn’t. But what about future resorts?  It creates a divide and degrades the “ club” model.


----------



## rubybutt

New Mouse said:


> If you buy an audi, would you hesitate if they told you that when you sell it, 90% of the features would be removed?
> 
> Resale restrictions are very bad for direct sales in any sectors.   Very few people are coming in dropping $30k plus without wondering about the future.


Tesla already does that with full self driving.  If they buy back the car they strip it off and make the new owner rebuy it.


----------



## Einstein509

Jimmy Geppetto said:


> But it would insinuate that VGF is superior to RIV.


Because it is.....



BWV Dreamin said:


> All the sales person has to mention ( and they should) is VGF2 comes with no restrictions ( if you want to make all else equal). That right there makes VGF2 a more superior product.


Restrictions are one of the main reasons I won't buy Riviera.


----------



## Nabas

New Mouse said:


> If you buy an audi, would you hesitate if they told you that when you sell it, 90% of the features would be removed?
> 
> Resale restrictions are very bad for direct sales in any sectors.   Very few people are coming in dropping $30k plus without wondering about the future.


Actual sales data from DVC Resale Market does not support what you suggest.  RIV resales are doing extremely well compares to other DVC resorts.


----------



## DonMacGregor

SusieQ93 said:


> If you try to sell that Audi in 7 or 8 years, you’re going to get far less than what you paid for it.


I think the point being made isn’t the difference in value between a 7 year old Audi and a new one, as we all know the car will depreciate, but rather the difference in value between a 7 year car with full options and accessories, versus that exact same 7 year old car with with all of those options and accessories removed.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

Nabas said:


> Actual sales data from DVC Resale Market does not support what you suggest.  RIV resales are doing extremely well compares to other DVC resorts.
> 
> View attachment 646887


Not really an accurate reflection of VGF sales as they were sold out ( not in active sales) and doesn’t account for those that would have purchased but couldn’t. Not apples to apples comparison.


----------



## Sandisw

New Mouse said:


> Yes because there is no metric to say where sales would have been if they didn't have restrictions.     I was one sale they didn't get because of them.   I'm sure there are many others.



Except sales for the three months after RIV opened but before the shut down were some of the highest monthly sales for any resort.

I agree we will never know how restrictions truly impacted the resort, it sold really well prior to the shut down for being such a different product.

I just do not believe that the average DVC buyer knows or thinks about resale value. 

And, to be fair, the resale value of RIV right now is doing pretty well. Granted, not many have been sold, but if a person is concerned, thr current data supports it’s not a huge loss over what they’d be looking at for VGF..and that is all they have right now.

None of us know what will happen in the future as many of us never imagined it would sell for what it has.

Think of the direct buyer.  Pay $255 for VGF, knowing the resale market is currently selling…not asking…around $180…losing $75/point.

Or, buying RIV at $207 and selling around $140/point…losing $67/point.  Pretty much a wash from a sale perspective for the guide to share.

If DVDs goal is to increase overall sales, then pricing the resorts close will do that…and, IMO, actually give them more data to the impact of restrictions.


----------



## Sandisw

BWV Dreamin said:


> Myself as well. If the restrictions had no affect on the product, they would have continued it with VGF. Maybe because it’s part of the same association they couldn’t. But what about future resorts?  It creates a divide and degrades the “ club” model.



IMO, they chose to add it to the current association because it was easier and faster to get it up and running vs. making it a brand new association that did not have trading rights into the larger units at the current VGF.

As long at it was the same association, I don’t think they could add those restrictions.


----------



## Sandisw

Einstein509 said:


> Because it is.....
> 
> 
> Restrictions are one of the main reasons I won't buy Riviera.



But saying it is superior is an opinion and not a fact.  But, from the sale perspective, they need to both be superior products that can easily be sold to the buyer depending on that persons travel patterns.

I personally think RIV is a much better resort than VGF…and pretty much try to stay at the two every trip…I would have the same thought that you can’t sell two resorts at the same time and have the price difference huge IF the goal is to actually sell both of them.


----------



## Nabas

BWV Dreamin said:


> Not really an accurate reflection of VGF sales as they were sold out (not in active sales) and doesn’t account for those that would have purchased but couldn’t. Not apples to apples comparison.


The chart is an extremely good reflection of the market since it is actual sales data.  Once Disney classifies RIV as "sold out", Disney is sure to raise RIV's direct price and more RIV buyers will be forced onto the resale market, increasing the resale cost.  *This has been the pattern for all previous DVC sales.*

Sorting by absolute price, you'll see a clear pattern: *location is king.*

The lone Disneyland DVC stands heads and shoulders above the rest.  This is then followed by the 3 Monorail DVCs.  CCV, which is close to MK, follows the 3 Monorail DVCs.

Somewhere in the middle are the 3 DHS/Epcot resorts: BCV, RIV, and BWV.

AKV, SSR, and OKW, which are perceived as being farther from the parks, are closer to the bottom.  While the 3 DVC resorts not associated with any theme park (Aulani, HHI, VB) are at the bottom.

Only BRV deviates from this pattern.  BRV is co-located with CCV but has only 20 years left on its contract, compared to CCV's 46 years.

Again, when it comes to DVC resales, location is king.



(Chart updated to include "End Date" column.)


----------



## Sandisw

BWV Dreamin said:


> Not really an accurate reflection of VGF sales as they were sold out ( not in active sales) and doesn’t account for those that would have purchased but couldn’t. Not apples to apples comparison.



But this still supports there is a market for RIV resale right now. 

So, when choosing between the two resorts, the direct buyer may not be willing to spend a ton more for VGF simply because it comes without restrictions which play no role in that buyers use of the product. .


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## DVCsloth

I tend to think VGF and Riviera are pretty close. Riviera is probably #3 for me. If I were to add on at either VGF or Riviera right now I would probably choose Riviera because of the VGF2 imbalance created by the Studio Only VGF2. I am interested in adding on a small number of direct points, but it will most likely be CCV since I already own there. I like the way the Villas are a separate building and being located next to GF hotel with all the amenities really make it a very special resort, but we also feel that way about CCV.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

Nabas said:


> The chart is an extremely good reflection of the market since it is actual sales data.  Once Disney classifies RIV as "sold out", Disney is sure to raise RIV's direct price and more RIV buyers will be forced onto the resale market, increasing the resale cost.  *This has been the pattern for all previous DVC sales.*
> 
> Sorting by absolute price, you'll see a clear pattern: *location is king.*
> 
> The lone Disneyland DVC stands heads and shoulders above the rest.  This is then followed by the 3 Monorail DVCs.  CCV, which is close to MK, follows the 3 Monorail DVCs.
> 
> Somewhere in the middle are the 3 DHS/Epcot resorts: BCV, RIV, and BWV.
> 
> AKV, SSR, and OKW, which are perceived as being farther from the parks, are closer to the bottom.  While the 3 DVC resorts not associated with any theme park (Aulani, HHI, VB) are at the bottom.
> 
> Only BRV deviates from this pattern.  BRV is co-located with CCV but has only 20 years left on its contract, compared to CCV's 46 years.
> 
> Again, when it comes to DVC resales, location is king.
> 
> View attachment 646900


So apologies, I miss read the chart to be direct sales and not resales data. Location, location, location. Has been the real estate mantra for decades.


----------



## BeachClub2014

New Mouse said:


> If you buy an audi, would you hesitate if they told you that when you sell it, 90% of the features would be removed?
> 
> Resale restrictions are very bad for direct sales in any sectors.   Very few people are coming in dropping $30k plus without wondering about the future.



I am one of the very few then, having recently purchased RIV direct. We've been in and around DVC for many years and have a pretty good handle on how it works and the restrictions on any potential resale don't concern me at all.


----------



## SusieQ93

DonMacGregor said:


> I think the point being made isn’t the difference in value between a 7 year old Audi and a new one, as we all know the car will depreciate, but rather the difference in value between a 7 year car with full options and accessories, versus that exact same 7 year old car with with all of those options and accessories removed.


My main point is just like cars are not a good investment, neither is DVC. If you’re looking to invest, you can do a lot better with $30k than DVC.

As Nabas points out and as my post mentioned, there is a market for DVC resale for Riviera and the pp price is higher than most other resorts which have fewer restrictions (all resale has restrictions now, as you can’t use points from the original 14 properties at new properties). You also do not get a blue card with resale, so no matter which property you buy direct, not all benefits/features will be available to resale.

Those purchasing resale have decided that the discounted price of resale offsets the restrictions for them. But again, resale should be looked at as an out if financially you cannot afford to keep your contract, you die and your heirs wish to sell, etc. it’s not an investment. Most time shares have zero resale value so the fact that DVC has a strong resale market sets it apart.


----------



## Ruttangel

I was actually a doomsayer about RIV resale but it is out performing forecasts.
Whether this is because of small inventory, who knows? Maybe it’s just because SSR/AKV/OKW now sitting around $130 and not the $100 they were at when RIV opened 
Maybe we underestimate the buyers that are

Not aware that resale restrictions are at RIV only
Resale post 2019 owners who want a RIV contract
RIV owners adding on at lower price
Will this all change when RIV is sold out or when new DVC properties come online?
Possibly, but I am surprised it’s not sitting around $140 at most


----------



## CarolMN

@Nabas, thanks for the chart.   

 IMO, it suggests resale prices for VGF will decrease significantly if the opening price for VGF2 direct is the same as Riviera.  At $210 pp, I'd be bidding $155-$160 for resale.  It will be interesting to see how quickly we see the change.


----------



## Nabas

CarolMN said:


> @Nabas, thanks for the chart.
> 
> IMO, it suggests resale prices for VGF will decrease significantly if the opening price for VGF2 direct is the same as Riviera.  At $210 pp, I'd be bidding $155-$160 for resale.  It will be interesting to see how quickly we see the change.


With Poly resale at $173pp and BLT $169pp, any VGF resale price below about $175pp is going to have a ripple effect throughout all DVC resales.


----------



## Jimmy Geppetto

Einstein509 said:


> Because it is.....
> 
> 
> Restrictions are one of the main reasons I won't buy Riviera.



Ill agree that VGF is superior to RIV. But that’s just our opinion.
And I can understand why people don’t buy RIV because of the restrictions but to think this perspective occurs frequently… the direct sales say otherwise.

My opinion only… restrictions are here to stay. It’s Disney’s way of disrupting the resale market and it’s working. The data speaks for itself.


----------



## davidl81

Jimmy Geppetto said:


> Ill agree that VGF is superior to RIV. But that’s just our opinion.
> And I can understand why people don’t buy RIV because of the restrictions but to think this perspective occurs frequently… the direct sales say otherwise.
> 
> My opinion only… restrictions are here to stay. It’s Disney’s way of disrupting the resale market and it’s working. The data speaks for itself.


Oh yeah, restrictions are not going away on actual new resorts.  They are a long term play.


----------



## Jimmy Geppetto

New Mouse said:


> Yes because there is no metric to say where sales would have been if they didn't have restrictions.     I was one sale they didn't get because of them.   I'm sure there are many others.



There are many others.  No doubt at all.  But there are more.... way more who chose to still buy.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

Nabas said:


> Actual sales data from DVC Resale Market does not support what you suggest.  RIV resales are doing extremely well compares to other DVC resorts.
> 
> View attachment 646887


If you look at someone whose not trying to sell you something’s data across the whole market you see that the average sales price has fallen for 3 straight months for Riviera and that all but 3 of the 17 contracts currently for sale have been listed for over a month, and half for over 2 months. They’re just sitting there.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

Ruttangel said:


> I was actually a doomsayer about RIV resale but it is out performing forecasts.
> Whether this is because of small inventory, who knows? Maybe it’s just because SSR/AKV/OKW now sitting around $130 and not the $100 they were at when RIV opened
> Maybe we underestimate the buyers that are
> 
> Not aware that resale restrictions are at RIV only
> Resale post 2019 owners who want a RIV contract
> RIV owners adding on at lower price
> Will this all change when RIV is sold out or when new DVC properties come online?
> Possibly, but I am surprised it’s not sitting around $140 at most


I am certain it will drop into the SSR/OKW range sooner than later. Inventory matters.


----------



## BeachClub2014

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> I am certain it will drop into the SSR/OKW range sooner than later. Inventory matters.



You could be correct but I'm not sure anyone can accurately predict where costs per point for any resort will end up over the long haul. We originally purchased Boardwalk at something like $65 per point and would have never guessed that it would be selling resale north of $140 today.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

BeachClub2014 said:


> You could be correct but I'm not sure anyone can accurately predict where costs per point for any resort will end up over the long haul. We originally purchased Boardwalk at $65 per point and would have never guessed that it would be selling resale north of $140 today.


I am only predicting relative to other resorts; as you point out trying to predict absolute pricing is basically predicting the economy.

I’m not sure how one can look at how Riviera is selling relative to all of the other DVCs ever and be optimistic about its resale value once the property reaches maturity.


----------



## thank_the_phoenicians88

New Mouse said:


> Yes because there is no metric to say where sales would have been if they didn't have restrictions.     I was one sale they didn't get because of them.   I'm sure there are many others.


I contemplated adding on at RIV (it’s a beautiful resort!), but didn’t due to the resale restrictions. If I want to stay at Riviera, I’ll rent out my resale points and will use the cash to go towards a riviera stay. More work? Yes. But at least my resale will hold its value well for the short-to-medium term since these points can be used across the platform of dvc resorts. I feel like holding all else equal, people will prefer an “unrestricted” resale versus a restricted resale that limits you solely to one property.


----------



## DKZB

BrianLo said:


> Riv also comes with no restrictions (when you buy from Disney). It's kind of meaningless in the sales pitch for a direct buyer, they aren't impacted.
> 
> It of course MAY effect resale price, but guides are hardly pushing this one might be worth more than that one 10 years from now. They make no promises and they aren't investments. Both could also be worth far less in 10 years than the market would dictate.
> 
> The genius on Disney's part is not that restrictions are bad for direct, they are bad for resale.


This may be blasphemy here but I am not a huge Disney fan. I like Disney service, I know I have things to do at Disney, and I have young kids but if there wasn’t a strong resale market the is a 0% chance I would’ve bought DVC. I wouldn’t buy any other timeshare, especially not at DVC prices and especially not one that I can only stay at one hotel!

I didn’t buy direct because i didn’t want Aulani and I think resale restrictions are bad for the buyer. I don’t think current prices from the relatively low supply of RIV resale points on a shiny new resort is indicative of the long term value. Just wait until it’s not shiny and new and it is in need of an update!

Just my $0.02


----------



## BeachClub2014

thank_the_phoenicians88 said:


> I contemplated adding on at RIV (it’s a beautiful resort!), but didn’t due to the resale restrictions. If I want to stay at Riviera, I’ll rent out my resale points and will use the cash to go towards a riviera stay. More work? Yes. But at least my resale will hold its value well for the short-to-medium term since these points can be used across the platform of dvc resorts. I feel like holding all else equal, people will prefer an “unrestricted” resale versus a restricted resale that limits you solely to one property.



I am sure you're spot-on in thinking that most people prefer more flexibility in their use of points, including resale. I know that I prefer flexibility in using my points which were one of the factors in buying direct. I suspect as new resorts are brought online, with likely restrictions, people will have to continue to make these value decisions.


----------



## Sandisw

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> I am only predicting relative to other resorts; as you point out trying to predict absolute pricing is basically predicting the economy.
> 
> I’m not sure how one can look at how Riviera is selling relative to all of the other DVCs ever and be optimistic about its resale value once the property reaches maturity.



Because in 20 years when those 2042 resorts come back with those restrictions, then what RIV has won't be unique.  Assuming more resorts are built with them between now and then, it will play a role.  I don't think anyone can argue that almost 3 years since it went on sale, that the resale for this resort has not tanked to the level that most of us...including me...thought it would right out of the gate.

It has not because people do love the resort and are willing to own points there to use there as part of what they own.  I definitely think the resale restrictions have put off many current buyers who already own...but, the vast majority of new sales for DVD are people buying into RIV.

Those restrictions are simply not turning people off right now.  So, for VGF, I just don't see the resale restriction that RIV will carry being enough for DVD to say we can price it that much higher.  Remember, DVD has the power to simply remove the restrictions from RIV.  And, who knows, once VGF goes on sale, maybe they will decide to do it.  With the incentives for BLT, they now have an MK resort without restrictions competing against RIV with those restrictions for very similar prices.  It will be very interesting to see what this does to sales numbers for RIV.  It will be the same when VGF goes for sale.


----------



## tjkraz

New Mouse said:


> Resale restrictions are very bad for direct sales in any sectors.   Very few people are coming in dropping $30k plus without wondering about the future.



They've sold 2.6 million riviera points with the restrictions. And they could undo the restrictions if they felt it wasn't serving a useful purpose. The fact that they haven't speaks volumes.


----------



## tjkraz

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> If you look at someone whose not trying to sell you something’s data across the whole market you see that the average sales price has fallen for 3 straight months for Riviera and that all but 3 of the 17 contracts currently for sale have been listed for over a month, and half for over 2 months. They’re just sitting there.





Epcot Forever Forever said:


> I am only predicting relative to other resorts; as you point out trying to predict absolute pricing is basically predicting the economy.
> 
> I’m not sure how one can look at how Riviera is selling relative to all of the other DVCs ever and be optimistic about its resale value once the property reaches maturity.



Reselling an active resort has always been difficult because you're competing directly with DVC. Resale prices ~25-30% lower than direct is pretty standard across the board. 

The best advice I would give Riviera buyers is to split their purchase into smaller contracts. Riviera is likely to sell for less than others as resale volume rises, but 50-75 point contracts will go faster, for higher rates. Small contracts will be very palatable to the Riviera fan, banking and borrowing for longer, less frequent stays.

I definitely wouldn't want to be the seller of a 435-point contract. At the same time, I don't think its selling price + timeline will say much about the typical Riviera resale. Certainly not a 50-point contract. 

It will be interesting to see if DVC follows the lead of other timeshare developers and allows resale purchasers to buy-up to full benefits. It would be another revenue stream. We just haven't reached a point where it's particularly valuable. Yet.


----------



## Jwaire

RIV's restrictions tend to get overblown on this board because members here (including me) are very invested and informed about DVC.

I'd argue the vast majority of DVC members aren't. If you join any DVC Facebook group, the same basic questions are asked and answered constantly. A member who doesn't understand the difference between booking window and use year isn't going to understand the ramifications of resale restrictions. You purchase DVC in the "magic" of the moment, not to sell it in 5, 7 or 10+ years. So, it's just not a serious concern for most buyers (whether they were told or not).

New buyers will purchase VGF2 over RIV because they like the resort and location.

I was very skeptical about Riviera. I think the resale restrictions are unnecessary and against the spirit of DVC (lol, I know). But I've noticed the resort gets nothing but positive praise on social media (which apparently is the most important thing ever at the moment). So, I made some time to check it out on my latest trip. 

After visiting, I understand why it's popular. I dropped by twice on my recent trip, once using the bus and once using the Skyliner. I heard nothing but positive comments from guests about the resort both times before I even arrived at the resort.

The lady I shared the Skyliner with was raving about her stay there. She wasn't even a DVC member (Who pays cash for these rooms through Disney?).  The resort itself was immaculate—very clean and fresh. I was greeted immediately by concierge-level cast members (and lobby security—which I was a little taken back by). My lunch at Primo Piatto was the best on-property quick service I've had other than Geyser Point.

Did they round up the best-of-the-best cast members from the other resorts or what? Because everyone I interacted with from the gift shop to housekeeping was friendly and asked if they could help me. I got a little lost exploring all the art on the walls and a member of housekeeping walked me back to the elevator that you go down to enter Primo Piatto.

It wouldn't surprise if this is the future of resorts at World, at least under Chapek. Why build another sprawling Grand Floridan with 800+ rooms when you can build a smaller, boutique-style, "luxurious" resort with 300 rooms and have most of the maintenance paid for by DVC members? Then you can slow sell it and charge upwards of $650-950+ per night to stay in a studio on the cash side.


----------



## Paul Stupin

CarolMN said:


> @Nabas, thanks for the chart.
> 
> IMO, it suggests resale prices for VGF will decrease significantly if the opening price for VGF2 direct is the same as Riviera.  At $210 pp, I'd be bidding $155-$160 for resale.  It will be interesting to see how quickly we see the change.



Originally I thought that the VGF resale price would go down to the level you’re suggesting as well if the opening price for VGF2 is the same as Riviera, but now I’m not so sure. Assuming a resale price of about $180, that’s still a $27 savings per point over direct, with the only restriction being that buyers cannot book at Riviera or DLT in a few years, or some other unknown new build way in the future. Will new resale buyers, understanding that they can book at the original 14 for years to come, even with some diminishment at 2042, really care? I don’t think they will. I know I didn’t initially when I bought resale, at least not until I stayed at Riviera, became way more familiar with DVC, and switched to buying direct.

The direct VGF2 price will also no doubt go up after a few months, giving resale another boost, and let’s not forget new buyers who want to purchase less than the 150 point minimum having no other option but to buy resale. The huge Aulani incentives offered a few months ago didn’t really seem to impact the relatively high Aulani resale prices either.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

Jwaire said:


> RIV's restrictions tend to get overblown on this board because members here (including me) are very invested and informed about DVC.
> 
> I'd argue the vast majority of DVC members aren't. If you join any DVC Facebook group, the same basic questions are asked and answered constantly. A member who doesn't understand the difference between booking window and use year isn't going to understand the ramifications of resale restrictions. You purchase DVC in the "magic" of the moment, not to sell it in 5, 7 or 10+ years. So, it's just not a serious concern for most buyers (whether they were told or not).
> 
> New buyers will purchase VGF2 over RIV because they like the resort and location.
> 
> I was very skeptical about Riviera. I think the resale restrictions are unnecessary and against the spirit of DVC (lol, I know). But I've noticed the resort gets nothing but positive praise on social media (which apparently is the most important thing ever at the moment). So, I made some time to check it out on my latest trip.
> 
> After visiting, I understand why it's popular. I dropped by twice on my recent trip, once using the bus and once using the Skyliner. I heard nothing but positive comments from guests about the resort both times before I even arrived at the resort.
> 
> The lady I shared the Skyliner with was raving about her stay there. She wasn't even a DVC member (Who pays cash for these rooms through Disney?).  The resort itself was immaculate—very clean and fresh. I was greeted immediately by concierge-level cast members (and lobby security—which I was a little taken back by). My lunch at Primo Piatto was the best on-property quick service I've had other than Geyser Point.
> 
> Did they round up the best-of-the-best cast members from the other resorts or what? Because everyone I interacted with from the gift shop to housekeeping was friendly and asked if they could help me. I got a little lost exploring all the art on the walls and a member of housekeeping walked me back to the elevator that you go down to enter Primo Piatto.
> 
> It wouldn't surprise if this is the future of resorts at World, at least under Chapek. Why build another sprawling Grand Floridan with 800+ rooms when you can build a smaller, boutique-style, "luxurious" resort with 300 rooms and have most of the maintenance paid for by DVC members? Then you can slow sell it and charge upwards of $650-950+ per night to stay in a studio on the cash side.


Resale RIV owners may say they dont care about the restrictions until they do. Way to early to get any valid data.


----------



## Duckbug.Ducktales

nuhusky123 said:


> Am I alone having second thoughts about buying gfv regardless of price?
> 
> disney just had a banner quarter, predictions being 2022 will be a great year for park attendance meaning Disney continues to have a great fiscal.
> 
> why does this matter. Well disney has taken away perks and raised prices on everything. Despite this revenue is up.
> 
> chapek knows what he has and has even announced he expects prices to go up even more in 23.
> 
> perks will continue to be removed, prices will go up and up. Disney clearly prefers ticket holders over annual so what if they remove annual passes and stop renewals. They could, they would make more money and the punters will continue to go. More money, higher stock prices
> 
> i love Disney world, truly it’s my happy place. But buying into dvc given this, I’m really on the fence


Another way to look at this is that, given the many Disney fans who are giving the company great fiscal marks despite the loss of perks, it's not like you'd be stuck with a worthless timeshare if you later decided WDW was no longer your happy place.

ETA: I totally share your unhappiness about the loss of perks. Still my happy place as well, but I wonder when they'll push too much for me and my family to stop going.
Meanwhile, we're considering adding on at BLT and DL tower (already own at RVA and SSR), knowing that we can turn around and sell it all off if in a few years we decide Disney Parks aren't for us anymore (I specify parks because we're still in love with what the Animation divisions are producing).


----------



## sethschroeder

BWV Dreamin said:


> Resale RIV owners may say they dont care about the restrictions until they do. Way to early to get any valid data.



If RIV follows other resorts it will have about 1% turnover per year to resale. 

In the end resale is always going to be a tiny majority for a long long time. 

Additonally for someone who buys RIV if they end up not being able to get a room like you can at SSR it just means they have to use the exchange to use up the points and it's the trade off for not buying direct.


----------



## sethschroeder

It's interesting VGF still hasn't went on sale. Interested to see how well it sells and that final price.


----------



## BrianLo

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> I’m not sure how one can look at how Riviera is selling relative to all of the other DVCs ever and be optimistic about its resale value once the property reaches maturity.



They struggled to sell Grand Californian too!


----------



## RamblinWreck

macman123 said:


> I really think they will be the current direct rate, but with some incentives.......


That will certainly help sell out RIV if so.


----------



## Marionnette

RamblinWreck said:


> That will certainly help sell out RIV if so.


And that would be a bad thing?


----------



## RamblinWreck

Paul Stupin said:


> Originally I thought that the VGF resale price would go down to the level you’re suggesting as well if the opening price for VGF2 is the same as Riviera, but now I’m not so sure. Assuming a resale price of about $180, that’s still a $27 savings per point over direct, with the only restriction being that buyers cannot book at Riviera or DLT in a few years, or some other unknown new build way in the future. Will new resale buyers, understanding that they can book at the original 14 for years to come, even with some diminishment at 2042, really care? I don’t think they will. I know I didn’t initially when I bought resale, at least not until I stayed at Riviera, became way more familiar with DVC, and switched to buying direct.
> 
> The direct VGF2 price will also no doubt go up after a few months, giving resale another boost, and let’s not forget new buyers who want to purchase less than the 150 point minimum having no other option but to buy resale. The huge Aulani incentives offered a few months ago didn’t really seem to impact the relatively high Aulani resale prices either.


One other factor, though, is that Disney will be actively trying to sell VGF points.

That artificial ROFR price floor won’t exist anymore. So buyers won’t be targeting any specific number in hopes of getting past ROFR. That alone should cause a price drop.


----------



## RamblinWreck

Marionnette said:


> And that would be a bad thing?


For VGF sales, yes. Until RIV is sold out, anyway. Then they might pick up some.


----------



## DVCsloth

The only trouble I see is the 150-point minimum. Other than that, both of these resorts should sell pretty easily. I'm personally not happy with VGF2 Studio only, but I think DVC feels the demand is there for Studios that have walking, monorail and boat access to MK and Monorail access to Epcot. Riviera is another great resort with awesome access to Epcot and HS.


----------



## DKZB

RamblinWreck said:


> One other factor, though, is that Disney will be actively trying to sell VGF points.
> 
> That artificial ROFR price floor won’t exist anymore. So buyers won’t be targeting any specific number in hopes of getting past ROFR. That alone should cause a price drop.



ROFR hasn’t been an issue with VGF. Maybe if you were looking to pay $150-$160pp but not many sellers were looking to sell there. VGF is one of the few that is not artificially propped up by ROFR. 

We will see what happens in a few years when there is 2 Million additional points but for now, resale is governed by supply and demand.


----------



## Nabas

Here are updated RIV direct sales through January 2022.  Keep in mind that these numbers are contract closings and typically reflect purchases that were mostly initiated the month before.  In this case, this means during the busy Christmas season.



DVC News is reporting it positively but as you can see on the chart, there have been other recent upticks only to have RIV sales slide backwards.

DVC News notes "a 42.9% increase year-over-year" but December 2020 was a terrible month at WDW.  COVID was spiking and vaccines were not available.  We booked a *last-minute stay at BWV in a Standard Room Studio in mid-December* when DVCs are in peak demand!  That's normally a difficult room to get at 11 months.  When we booked, difficult-to-get rooms like VGF Studio, BCV Studio, and AKV Value Studio were available.  Guests were cancelling left, right, and center.

We experienced incredibly light crowds at the theme parks in December 2020.  Just have a look at how few Guests are standing about at the DHS central hub for Santa!




In Disney's most recent earnings call, Chapek suggested the primary drag on attendance was food staffing.  He seemed pleased with theme park attendance.  There should be tons of people buying RIV right now, if consumer confidence was there.  All things considered, I cannot interpret recent DVC sales as positively as DVC News does.  At least, not yet.

After nearly 3 years (April 2019), RIV is 39% sold out.  Obviously, COVID has had a devastating impact on sales but it's not exactly a blistering pace.

What is offering VGF2 at the same time going to do for RIV sales?  Strategically, does it make sense to delay VGF2 sales?  (Disney won't.) Remember, VGF2 was announced when COVID was declining and even WDW was changing to a no-mask-indoors policy. Disney had every reason to be optimistic.  Now we are facing COVID fatigue, inflation is up, and consumer confidence is down.

Will offering VGF2 at the same price as RIV hurt RIV sales?  Will offering VGF2 for more than RIV cause VGF2 sales to stagnant?  It just seems like a bad time to start selling VGF2.


----------



## Einstein509

DKZB said:


> This may be blasphemy here but I am not a huge Disney fan. I like Disney service, I know I have things to do at Disney, and I have young kids but if there wasn’t a strong resale market the is a 0% chance I would’ve bought DVC. I wouldn’t buy any other timeshare, especially not at DVC prices and especially not one that I can only stay at one hotel!
> 
> I didn’t buy direct because i didn’t want Aulani and I think resale restrictions are bad for the buyer. I don’t think current prices from the relatively low supply of RIV resale points on a shiny new resort is indicative of the long term value. Just wait until it’s not shiny and new and it is in need of an update!
> 
> Just my $0.02


I agree with your assessment.  We bought direct to get the blue card a while ago, but if it wasn't for resale, we wouldn't have bought again.  Additionally, I like the fact that I can unload my contracts at or above the price I paid for them in the near to mid-future.  I like having that option knowing I won't take a loss.

I was a huge Disney fan a few years ago, but the changes at the parks, resorts, and the company are pushing me away.  So it's nice not to be stuck with timeshares that you can't unload or if you do, will do so with a loss.

I know some people don't think like this and want to keep their contracts for the life of the contract, but change is inevitable and the only constant.  I may not want to visit Disney in a few years so having issues unloading the timeshares or unloading them at a lower price because of restrictions or other things come into play in my thinking.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

Nabas said:


> Will offering VGF2 at the same price as RIV hurt RIV sales?  Will offering VGF2 for more than RIV cause VGF2 sales to stagnant?  It just seems like a bad time to start selling VGF2.


That depends on your goals. If DVC senior management is bonused mainly on how many dollars of revenue and dollars of gross profit they bring in on a year to year basis (rather than on margin or specific goals related to a project or resort), it makes all the sense in the world to open additional resorts despite having 2 already actively for sale. 

If that’s how they’re bonused, It makes sense to turn on the ROFR jets for the least expensive resorts and sell them as starter offerings. 

If that’s how they’re bonused, It makes sense to offer deep discounts on sold out resorts to try to lure existing owners to part with more of their money direct rather than resale. 

And if that’s how they’re bonused, it makes sense to line price VGF or at least keep it close to maximize dollars of sales in 2022 as opposed to dollars over time. 

/speculation


----------



## Einstein509

DKZB said:


> ROFR hasn’t been an issue with VGF. Maybe if you were looking to pay $150-$160pp but not many sellers were looking to sell there. VGF is one of the few that is not artificially propped up by ROFR.
> 
> We will see what happens in a few years when there is 2 Million additional points but for now, resale is governed by supply and demand.


I respectfully disagree with this statement.  Last year, about this time, I had three VGF contracts taken in ROFR in a row.  Each time I settled on more with the seller beginning with $160 per point for the first one and finally at $165 for the last one trying to beat the ROFR monster.  Over the year, the prices kept rising on VGF and I finally bought one at $180 per point recently.  So yes, ROFR did prop up the prices for VGF.

DVD stopped ROFR'ing VGF recently, but the price was pushed up over the course of a year prior to them not taking any more.


----------



## Einstein509

Nabas said:


> Sorting by absolute price, you'll see a clear pattern: *location is king.*





BWV Dreamin said:


> So apologies, I miss read the chart to be direct sales and not resales data. Location, location, location. Has been the real estate mantra for decades.


This has been my main argument about VGF or VGF2.....location, location, location.


----------



## nuhusky123

Nabas said:


> Here are updated RIV direct sales through January 2022.  Keep in mind that these numbers are contract closings and typically reflect purchases that were mostly initiated the month before.  In this case, this means during the busy Christmas season.
> 
> View attachment 647085
> 
> DVC News is reporting it positively but as you can see on the chart, there have been other recent upticks only to have RIV sales slide backwards.
> 
> DVC News notes "a 42.9% increase year-over-year" but December 2020 was a terrible month at WDW.  COVID was spiking and vaccines were not available.  We booked a *last-minute stay at BWV in a Standard Room Studio in mid-December* when DVCs are in peak demand!  That's normally a difficult room to get at 11 months.  When we booked, difficult-to-get rooms like VGF Studio, BCV Studio, and AKV Value Studio were available.  Guests were cancelling left, right, and center.
> 
> We experienced incredibly light crowds at the theme parks in December 2020.  Just have a look at how few Guests are standing about at the DHS central hub for Santa!
> 
> View attachment 647087
> 
> 
> In Disney's most recent earnings call, Chapek suggested the primary drag on attendance was food staffing.  He seemed pleased with theme park attendance.  There should be tons of people buying RIV right now, if consumer confidence was there.  All things considered, I cannot interpret recent DVC sales as positively as DVC News does.  At least, not yet.
> 
> After nearly 3 years (April 2019), RIV is 39% sold out.  Obviously, COVID has had a devastating impact on sales but it's not exactly a blistering pace.
> 
> What is offering VGF2 at the same time going to do for RIV sales?  Strategically, does it make sense to delay VGF2 sales?  (Disney won't.) Remember, VGF2 was announced when COVID was declining and even WDW was changing to a no-mask-indoors policy. Disney had every reason to be optimistic.  Now we are facing COVID fatigue, inflation is up, and consumer confidence is down.
> 
> Will offering VGF2 at the same price as RIV hurt RIV sales?  Will offering VGF2 for more than RIV cause VGF2 sales to stagnant?  It just seems like a bad time to start selling VGF2.



I don’t understand how anyone claims victory on riv sales. I see nothing but flat sales if you avg the peaks and valleys

my personal opinion is there are x number of dvc buyers in the market right now. adding gfv to the inventory isn’t going to create x+y, it’s still just x

If x have to pick between riv and gfv then the only logical expectation is that riv sales decrease to compensate for whatever gfv sells. Until those y customers show up in this market sales will be bad for dvc


----------



## Sandisw

nuhusky123 said:


> I don’t understand how anyone claims victory on riv sales. I see nothing but flat sales if you avg the peaks and valleys
> 
> my personal opinion is there are x number of dvc buyers in the market right now. adding gfv to the inventory isn’t going to create x+y, it’s still just x
> 
> If x have to pick between riv and gfv then the only logical expectation is that riv sales decrease to compensate for whatever gfv sells. Until those y customers show up in this market sales will be bad for dvc



I read the sales as moving in the right direction for RIV finally after Covid hit.  They represent about 66% of total sales which is not quite what others have done but certainly not bad.  The problem is that you are never going to be able to take out what happened.  Sales were pretty strong just prior to the shut down and there will never be a way to know the true impact. 

What will be interesting in the next few months is to see the impact of VGF and BLT on the sales for the resort.   BLT pricing is similar for 200 points and hopefully so will VGF.

Once that data comes in, we will have other resorts to compare it to in the same market and price range.

Given 2 months of over 100k in sales, DVD has to be happy with that right now.


----------



## SusieQ93

nuhusky123 said:


> I don’t understand how anyone claims victory on riv sales. I see nothing but flat sales if you avg the peaks and valleys
> 
> my personal opinion is there are x number of dvc buyers in the market right now. adding gfv to the inventory isn’t going to create x+y, it’s still just x
> 
> If x have to pick between riv and gfv then the only logical expectation is that riv sales decrease to compensate for whatever gfv sells. Until those y customers show up in this market sales will be bad for dvc


So I am just one person, and probably not representative of the market as a whole, but I only became interested in buying DVC direct from Disney with the release of VGF2. I’m not interested in Riviera. Not because of resale. It’s because of the location. I’m a Disneyland fan first because that’s where I grew up going. I love that it’s a walking resort. I want to be able to walk to at least one park and Magic Kingdom is my favorite park and the park where I find walking most valuable (at the end of a long night when you don’t want to wait for a bus). Plus you can’t get dropped off direct by Uber to magic kingdom. I also love the Grand Floridian style. However, if Riviera was near the Boardwalk area, and walking distance to those two parks, I would be more interested in Riviera because it’s brand new and beautiful. I think they did a great job. It’s just the location for me. I’ll buy DLT when it comes out as an add-on but I don’t want 150 pts at DLT.


----------



## tjkraz

nuhusky123 said:


> I don’t understand how anyone claims victory on riv sales.



The numbers are what they are, and can be viewed without emotion or bias if one chooses to do so.

This entire thread (and dozens of others) are filled with people attaching their own conclusions: DVC is overpriced, Disney is too expensive, inflation, pandemic, Chapek, Genie+, no APs, riviera sucks, resale restrictions…and on, and on, and on. It’s mostly a futile exercise. The only thing we know for certain are the sales numbers themselves. And the current volume may prove to be the new normal for DVC. If they don’t respond with lower prices, better member perks, eliminating restrictions or other moves which could help boost interest, maybe…just maybe, they’re content with the present course.


----------



## SleeplessInTO

I have zero interest in purchasing Riviera. But I am very interested in VGF2. So disney actually is attracting x+y buyers by offering both. Yes VGF2 sales may cannibalize some RIV sales but overall it will increase the number of buyers of DVC direct in 2022.


----------



## BeachClub2014

SleeplessInTO said:


> I have zero interest in purchasing Riviera. But I am very interested in VGF2. So disney actually is attracting x+y buyers by offering both. Yes VGF2 sales may cannibalize some RIV sales but overall it will increase the number of buyers of DVC direct in 2022.



Exactly. That's the beauty of DVC and the variety of options. There is literally something for everyone. I had zero interest in GFV, either 1 or 2, so bought RIV. I have no desire to stay at GFV. I'm sure it's a spectacular resort, just not for me. Some prefer BCV over AKL, or OKW over BWV. Which resort is the best, and which is priced as a value, is truly a matter of perspective and frame of reference.


----------



## SusieQ93

BeachClub2014 said:


> Exactly. That's the beauty of DVC and the variety of options. There is literally something for everyone. I had zero interest in GFV, either 1 or 2, so bought RIV. I have no desire to stay at GFV. I'm sure it's a spectacular resort, just not for me. Some prefer BCV over AKL, or OKW over BWV. Which resort is the best, and which is priced as a value, is truly a matter of perspective and frame of reference.


Totally. Which is why I don’t buy into the narrative that VGF is the superior resort and should be priced higher. Riviera is a very nice resort and I don’t think it behooves them to cheapen it and imply it’s inferior through pricing. It’s all so subjective.


----------



## DVCsloth

SusieQ93 said:


> Totally. Which is why I don’t buy into the narrative that VGF is the superior resort and should be priced higher. Riviera is a very nice resort and I don’t think it behooves them to cheapen it and imply it’s inferior through pricing. It’s all so subjective.


I think some people look at the historic resale prices of the different resorts. I believe that VGF has always been at the top of the WDW resale prices. I'm not saying one is better than the other, but that may be part of the reason.


----------



## SusieQ93

DVCsloth said:


> I think some people look at the historic resale prices of the different resorts. I believe that VGF has always been at the top of the WDW resale prices. I'm not saying one is better than the other, but that may be part of the reason.


I’d be curious whether that factors into Disney’s strategy at all. I doubt it, but who knows. I think the average buyer is completely unaware of the resale market. If you do good research, you should quickly learn about it, but I don’t think many people research to the level of us on this board. Personally, I would never drop $30k on something without lots of research, but seems like lots of people do


----------



## tjkraz

Nabas said:


> All things considered, I cannot interpret recent DVC sales as positively as DVC News does.



All of the sales numbers and percentages were accurately reported. Along with mention of the fact that DVC still had better sales more than 100 times over the last 9+ years. There was no attempt to spin the numbers in any fashion. They are what they are.

You're entitled to be skeptical of the future. DVCNews isn't trying to predict the future. In a message board post, folks can say "hey guys, check out my photo of how empty the parks were last year." DVCNews doesn't view that as a valid data point for comparing the two periods. (Also, see below for a starkly different pic from December 13, 2020.)

Whatever happens in February, March and beyond will be reported in the same manner. Readers are free to draw their own conclusions. DVCNews isn't trying to frame the information either "positively" or negatively. We'll leave it to you to do that...


----------



## DVCsloth

SusieQ93 said:


> I’d be curious whether that factors into Disney’s strategy at all. I doubt it, but who knows. I think the average buyer is completely unaware of the resale market. If you do good research, you should quickly learn about it, but I don’t think many people research to the level of us on this board. Personally, I would never drop $30k on something without lots of research, but seems like lots of people do


I was sweating bullets when I bought VGF in late 2014. The minimum was 100pts at $165 and they wouldn't let me buy a smaller contract. So, 150pts at $200 is a pretty good size purchase. I didn't know anything about DVC, and I initially wanted Wilderness lodge, but VGF was what they were offering. They only told me it was sold out and I didn't know about resale. Very happy with our purchase and never looked back. Bought CCV direct instead of Riviera though because of the resale restrictions. We have stayed at Riviera a few times and totally fell in love with it. Now we own 2 resorts and love them both equally well.


----------



## SusieQ93

DVCsloth said:


> I was sweating bullets when I bought VGF in late 2014. The minimum was 100pts at $165 and they wouldn't let me buy a smaller contract. So, 150pts at $200 is a pretty good size purchase. I didn't know anything about DVC, and I initially wanted Wilderness lodge, but VGF was what they were offering. They only told me it was sold out and I didn't know about resale. Very happy with our purchase and never looked back. Bought CCV direct instead of Riviera though because of the resale restrictions. We have stayed at Riviera a few times and totally fell in love with it. Now we own 2 resorts and love them both equally well.


I first went to a DVC presentation at California Adventure just because we wanted the three fastpasses they were offering, we thought “why not?” But had no intention of purchasing. At the time, they were offering, Aulani and CCV. I didn’t know anything about resale. Many months later at the beginning of the pandemic, I started researching and learned about resale. I have no idea why I started the research, most likely boredom and something to distract me from the fact that the world appeared to be ending. At the time, VGF really appealed to me but the lack of studios didn’t. Wish I would’ve bought in two years ago if I’d known more studios were coming! Hindsight is always 20/20.


----------



## DVCsloth

SusieQ93 said:


> I first went to a DVC presentation at California Adventure just because we wanted the three fastpasses they were offering, we thought “why not?” But had no intention of purchasing. At the time, they were offering, Aulani and CCV. I didn’t know anything about resale. Many months later at the beginning of the pandemic, I started researching and learned about resale. I have no idea why I started the research, most likely boredom and something to distract me from the fact that the world appeared to be ending. At the time, VGF really appealed to me but the lack of studios didn’t. Wish I would’ve bought in two years ago if I’d known more studios were coming! Hindsight is always 20/20.


I think VGF resale may drop some when they start selling VGF2 so it may be a good time to buy a resale if the restrictions don't bother you. I'm probably going to add another small direct contract at CCV because we like to book 1BR and since VGF2 is all studios it will not be very well balanced potentially making 1BR and larger harder to book. If it does, we'll just use VGF for studios and CCV for 1BR or see what others are open at 7 months.


----------



## SusieQ93

DVCsloth said:


> I think VGF resale may drop some when they start selling VGF2 so it may be a good time to buy a resale if the restrictions don't bother you. I'm probably going to add another small direct contract at CCV because we like to book 1BR and since VGF2 is all studios it will not be very well balanced potentially making 1BR and larger harder to book. If it does, we'll just use VGF for studios and CCV for 1BR or see what others are open at 7 months.


I think resale will dip too depending on the price Disney offers. But, it would have to dip quite a bit for me to think resale is worth it on VGF. The way I see it, the biggest cost is actually the maintenance fees over the life of the contract. So if over the life of the contract direct is $80k and resale is $75k, it’s just not with it to me to save $5k to have a contract that I can’t use at new resorts (especially DLT) and no blue card.


----------



## DVCsloth

SusieQ93 said:


> I think resale will dip too depending on the price Disney offers. But, it would have to dip quite a bit for me to think resale is worth it on VGF. The way I see it, the biggest cost is actually the maintenance fees over the life of the contract. So if over the life of the contract direct is $80k and resale is $75k, it’s just not with it to me to save $5k to have a contract that I can’t use at new resorts (especially DLT) and no blue card.


I agree!


----------



## SusieQ93

SusieQ93 said:


> I think resale will dip too depending on the price Disney offers. But, it would have to dip quite a bit for me to think resale is worth it on VGF. The way I see it, the biggest cost is actually the maintenance fees over the life of the contract. So if over the life of the contract direct is $80k and resale is $75k, it’s just not with it to me to save $5k to have a contract that I can’t use at new resorts (especially DLT) and no blue card.


Oh plus, when you buy resale, you have to wait such a long time for points and everything and your contract might be stripped. It’s my understanding when you buy direct, you immediately get points, then you get points at your use year. So I believe if we buy 150 pts in the spring, we get 150 pts immediately, then 150 more in September if I choose that use year. I believe that makes any savings on resale a total wash. Correct me if I’m wrong on how I understand points are given when you buy direct.


----------



## DVCsloth

SusieQ93 said:


> Oh plus, when you buy resale, you have to wait such a long time for points and everything and your contract might be stripped. It’s my understanding when you buy direct, you immediately get points, then you get points at your use year. So I believe if we buy 150 pts in the spring, we get 150 pts immediately, then 150 more in September if I choose that use year. I believe that makes any savings on resale a total wash. Correct me if I’m wrong on how I understand points are given when you buy direct.


Yes, as long as they have the points available you will get current years points. I have a March use year and I bought in January or February, so I got the current use years points. I was so close to the next years points that I don't think I had to pay any dues for it either. I thought they would prorate a month or 2 but I didn't see it.


----------



## Sandisw

DVCsloth said:


> Yes, as long as they have the points available you will get current years points. I have a March use year and I bought in January or February, so I got the current use years points. I was so close to the next years points that I don't think I had to pay any dues for it either. I thought they would prorate a month or 2 but I didn't see it.



Dues go on calendar year and have nothing to do with which points you get. Buying today will generate the same dues for a resort, even if some UYs get 2021 and Feb UY starts with 2022.

That is why some with a March UY hope to see VGF for sale before that date.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

SusieQ93 said:


> Totally. Which is why I don’t buy into the narrative that VGF is the superior resort and should be priced higher. Riviera is a very nice resort and I don’t think it behooves them to cheapen it and imply it’s inferior through pricing. It’s all so subjective.


But price does follow demand. Disney does not price all of their properties at the same price. There is a reason for that.


----------



## DVCsloth

Sandisw said:


> Dues go on calendar year and have nothing to do with which points you get. Buying today will generate the same dues for a resort, even if some UYs get 2021 and Feb UY starts with 2022.
> 
> That is why some with a March UY hope to see VGF for sale before that date.


So, if I bought in April 2021 I would pay the same dues if I bought February 2022 for my 2021 points?


----------



## SusieQ93

Aulani and Riveria are priced the same but with different incentives. I don’t think demand for Aulani is anything close to Riveria and the prices really aren’t that different. Once there’s two million more points on the market for VGF, I’m not sure demand for the two will be hugely different.


----------



## CarolynFH

DVCsloth said:


> So, if I bought in April 2021 I would pay the same dues if I bought February 2022 for my 2021 points?


Someone who buys in April will pay 9/12 of the dues for that calendar year.  It won't matter what their UY is.  So someone who buys in April 2022 and has a February, March or April UY will get 2022 UY points while someone who buys in April 2022 and has an June or later UY will get 2021 UY points.  But they will all pay the same dues because dues are based on calendar year.


----------



## Sandisw

DVCsloth said:


> So, if I bought in April 2021 I would pay the same dues if I bought February 2022 for my 2021 points?



you buy in 2021, you pay 2021 dues. If you buy on Feb 2022, you pay 2022 dues.

If you have an April UY, and buy today, you get 2021 points because you are still in your April 2021 UY. 

So dues are not technically tied to the exact points but rather from date you become an owner.


----------



## Jimmy Geppetto

CarolynFH said:


> Someone who buys in April will pay 9/12 of the dues for that calendar year.  It won't matter what their UY is.  So someone who buys in April 2022 and has a February or March UY will get 2022 UY points while someone who buys in April 2022 and has an April or later UY will get 2021 UY points.  But they will all pay the same dues because dues are based on calendar year.



If someone buys in April 2022 and has an April UY they will only get 2022 points. Have to buy before April to get the 2021 points.


----------



## CarolynFH

Jimmy Geppetto said:


> If someone buys in April 2022 and has an April UY they will only get 2022 points. Have to buy before April to get the 2021 points.


Woops, thanks, have to stop posting while watching TV!


----------



## DVCsloth

Sandisw said:


> you buy in 2021, you pay 2021 dues. If you buy on Feb 2022, you pay 2022 dues.
> 
> If you have an April UY, and buy today, you get 2021 points because you are still in your April 2021 UY.
> 
> So dues are not technically tied to the exact points but rather from date you become an owner.





CarolynFH said:


> Woops, thanks, have to stop posting while watching TV!





Sandisw said:


> you buy in 2021, you pay 2021 dues. If you buy on Feb 2022, you pay 2022 dues.
> 
> If you have an April UY, and buy today, you get 2021 points because you are still in your April 2021 UY.
> 
> So dues are not technically tied to the exact points but rather from date you become an owner.


Maybe I'm not saying it correctly. If I have a march use year and I buy now February, I won't pay the entire 2021 dues even though I received the 2021 points. If I bought the same points in March or later 2021, I would pay the prorated 2021 points.


----------



## Sandisw

DVCsloth said:


> Maybe I'm not saying it correctly. If I have a march use year and I buy now February, I won't pay the entire 2021 dues even though I received the 2021 points. If I bought the same points in March or later 2021, I would pay the prorated 2021 points.



Correct because you pay for operation of the resort as an owner, and not which points you get when buying direct.

That’s why UY and points for dues purposes doesn’t matter.  It’s only based on the date you buy.


So, if you buy today, you are not paying 2021 dues because we are no longer in 2021. It is 2022.


----------



## Nabas

tjkraz said:


> In a message board post, folks can say "hey guys, check out my photo of how empty the parks were last year." DVCNews doesn't view that as a valid data point for comparing the two periods. (Also, see below for a starkly different pic from December 13, 2020.)


For the fiscal quarter ending January 1, 2022, Disney reported that Domestic theme park attendance increased by "*>100%*" compared to the quarter ending January 2, 2021.

Disney didn't say exactly what ">100%" is but they also reported that year-to-year Domestic theme park revenue for that same quarter grew from $1.489 billion to $4.800 billion, an increase of *222%*!  Domestic hotel occupancy grew from 28% to 73%, an increase of *161%.*  Together, these give us some idea that the ">100%" increase in attendance probably was a lot greater than 100%.

Assuming that data posted by DVCNews represents closings (and thus trails theme park attendance by roughly a month), DVCNews reported DVC sales of 253,618 points in the 3 months corresponding from October to December 2020.  In 2021, that number was 336,874, an increase of *33%*.  (BYW, if I use DVCNews' October-to-December data for 2020 and 2021, the numbers are 279,474 and 311,466, only an 11% increase.)

DVC sales are not rebounding as quickly as theme park attendance.


----------



## tjkraz

Nabas said:


> For the fiscal quarter ending January 1, 2022, Disney reported that Domestic theme park attendance increased by "*>100%*" compared to the quarter ending January 2, 2021.
> 
> (snip)
> 
> DVC sales are not rebounding as quickly as theme park attendance.



Possibly true. Certainly not back to pre-pandemic levels by any stretch. 

Disneyland did not reopen until April 2021. So that "domestic parks" figure includes 0 attendance, guest spending, hotel revenue for DL and DCA in 2020 vs ....a lot in 2021. I'm sure WDW numbers did grow, we just don't know the extent. (And it happened amid no APs / Genie / Chapek / etc)

Other extenuating factors could include things like were the 2020 sales actually boosted by pent up demand, stimulus funds, good incentives? How did the Aulani specials impact other locations in 1Q fy 2022? How were 2021 sales impacted by people waiting for VGF (which was announced May '21)?

Again, the numbers are what they are. Trying to make sense of it often be like....


----------



## SusieQ93

Nabas said:


> DVC sales are not rebounding as quickly as theme park attendance.


That seems right and I don’t find it terribly surprising. I think there’s a huge pent up demand for vacationing, but do consumers have the level of confidence to put down $30k and sign a 50 year contract? I get freaked out thinking about it myself sometimes. We’ve just all been through a really traumatic time period unlike anything else in our lifetime. I think consumer confidence still needs to come back up and we need to get to a more stable place with Covid before DVC sales fully rebound.


----------



## Nabas

SusieQ93 said:


> That seems right and I don’t find it terribly surprising. I think there’s a huge pent up demand for vacationing, but do consumers have the level of confidence to put down $30k and sign a 50 year contract? I get freaked out thinking about it myself sometimes. We’ve just all been through a really traumatic time period unlike anything else in our lifetime. I think consumer confidence still needs to come back up and we need to get to a more stable place with Covid before DVC sales fully rebound.


Yeah, I have the same read of the current market.  After a year or two at home, people are ready to spend on a nice vacation.  "I've earned it."

But when it comes to plopping down $30K or more on a timeshare, consumer confidence is not yet there.


----------



## BrianLo

SleeplessInTO said:


> I have zero interest in purchasing Riviera. But I am very interested in VGF2. So disney actually is attracting x+y buyers by offering both. Yes VGF2 sales may cannibalize some RIV sales but overall it will increase the number of buyers of DVC direct in 2022.



+1. I spent about 3 years 'researching' and had absolutely zero desire to ever buy direct. The combo of VGF2, what has happened to the resale prices and the resort restrictions on resale contracts has somehow lead me to deciding I will add on a small amount.

Yes I definitely expect RIV will be depressed, but overall I foresee total point sales rebounding significantly with the added option. If DLT overlaps there will be a further boom.


----------



## Paul Stupin

RamblinWreck said:


> One other factor, though, is that Disney will be actively trying to sell VGF points.
> 
> That artificial ROFR price floor won’t exist anymore. So buyers won’t be targeting any specific number in hopes of getting past ROFR. That alone should cause a price drop.


True, but then how do you explain Aulani’s rise in resale prices in spite of last month’s huge incentives? Also, the VGF resale price has sustained in spite of a very low percentage of any contracts being taken through ROFR for a while now.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

Paul Stupin said:


> True, but then how do you explain Aulani’s rise in resale prices in spite of last month’s huge incentives? Also, the VGF resale price has sustained in spite of a very low percentage of any contracts being taken through ROFR for a while now.


I am genuinely confused by your statement. Aulani prices rose prior to the huge incentives, last spring, when the resale market was crazy tight. They’ve dropped slightly since last summer. When the incentives were live they basically didn’t budge but also very few contracts sold.


----------



## Paul Stupin

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> I am genuinely confused by your statement. Aulani prices rose prior to the huge incentives, last spring, when the resale market was crazy tight. They’ve dropped slightly since last summer. When the incentives were live they basically didn’t budge but also very few contracts sold.


Though I don’t know what they’re actually selling for, all I’m saying, as you mentioned, is that the incentives do not appear to have exerted much lasting downward pressure on Aulani resale, even though they were close, even lower in some instances, to the resale price.


----------



## davidl81

Paul Stupin said:


> Though I don’t know what they’re actually selling for, all I’m saying, as you mentioned, is that the incentives do not appear to have exerted much lasting downward pressure on Aulani resale, even though they were close, even lower in some instances, to the resale price.


I think since the incentives were so short lived it really didn’t hurt Aulani resale prices.  If those incentives would have stayed for a longer time or if they have become the new de facto price for Aulani direct then it would have hurt resale prices.  But since it was basically a 45 day offer it didn’t really change resale pricing much.


----------



## Duckbug.Ducktales

davidl81 said:


> I think since the incentives were so short lived it really didn’t hurt Aulani resale prices.  If those incentives would have stayed for a longer time or if they have become the new de facto price for Aulani direct then it would have hurt resale prices.  But since it was basically a 45 day offer it didn’t really change resale pricing much.


Yeah, plus I think very few people even knew about it. Unless you happen to be a regular on these sites, many buyers wouldn't have known. I know of people who are generally attuned to DCC matters and missed the sale because they never heard about it until way after; they would have bought. I assume the same will happen with the current BLT fire sale. Nothing about it on the DVC site.


----------



## RamblinWreck

SusieQ93 said:


> Totally. Which is why I don’t buy into the narrative that VGF is the superior resort and should be priced higher. Riviera is a very nice resort and I don’t think it behooves them to cheapen it and imply it’s inferior through pricing. It’s all so subjective.


The thing is that even if VGF is priced the same as Riviera, it's still being priced higher. It takes more points to stay at VGF than it does at RIV.

The point charts are how the resorts tend to be differentiated from each other, not by the cost of each point. Since each point is treated equally in the DVC ecosystem, it's the sensible way to do it.


----------



## SusieQ93

RamblinWreck said:


> The thing is that even if VGF is priced the same as Riviera, it's still being priced higher. It takes more points to stay at VGF than it does at RIV.
> 
> The point charts are how the resorts tend to be differentiated from each other, not by the cost of each point. Since each point is treated equally in the DVC ecosystem, it's the sensible way to do it.


Good point! I just don’t think we’re going to see the $255 pp sales price that some are predicting. That doesn’t make any sense to me as that was the sold out resort price. I think it would be a bizarre strategy to bring it online at a significantly higher pp cost. I think it will be $207 pp, possibly different incentives from Riviera making it technically priced higher but it won’t really look that way, and as you say we already know the point chart is a bit higher (though not significantly).


----------



## nuhusky123

SusieQ93 said:


> Good point! I just don’t think we’re going to see the $255 pp sales price that some are predicting. That doesn’t make any sense to me as that was the sold out resort price. I think it would be a bizarre strategy to bring it online at a significantly higher pp cost. I think it will be $207 pp, possibly different incentives from Riviera making it technically priced higher but it won’t really look that way, and as you say we already know the point chart is a bit higher (though not significantly).


So this is a really great statement, gfv is more expensive than riv due to points chart irregardless of actual point cost.

if some predict gfv costs more points than riv will dvc offer super compelling incentives for riv to push sales?

for the right price I’d be tempted to buy riv vs gfv


----------



## BeachClub2014

RamblinWreck said:


> The point charts are how the resorts tend to be differentiated from each other, not by the cost of each point. Since each point is treated equally in the DVC ecosystem, it's the sensible way to do it.



This is an interesting approach.


----------



## stwaldman

BeachClub2014 said:


> This is an interesting approach.


this feels like a little bit of a half truth, because the monorail loop resorts all came online when the point charts were shifting away from the "timeshare resort" model and more towards the "buy an interest in our best hotel rooms" model. The riviera point chart itself is very distinct from the other epcot resorts that went online 15-20 years earlier, much like how BLT is even distinct from VGF and poly which only came shortly after. None of us know what a poly/VGF point chart would look like if it was converted 20 years earlier, but the "epcot loop" kinda shows the point charts have some basis in timing as much as distinguishing value (that said, CCV is kinda an argument in the other direction).


----------



## DVChris

stwaldman said:


> (that said, CCV is kinda an argument in the other direction).


I consider CCV as a one-off because they matched the point chart to BRV. If it was a standalone, separate resort then I think it would have a higher point chart.


----------



## Paul Stupin

davidl81 said:


> I think since the incentives were so short lived it really didn’t hurt Aulani resale prices.  If those incentives would have stayed for a longer time or if they have become the new de facto price for Aulani direct then it would have hurt resale prices.  But since it was basically a 45 day offer it didn’t really change resale pricing much.



Whatever the initial direct price for VGF, it‘s almost a certainty that it will start rising on a somewhat regular basis, which will only help resale. And, of course, contracts with less than 150 points will only be available resale for new buyers, potentially maintaining their price.

Anecdotally, even informed DVC members on these boards continue to add on at prices around $180, even though they’re well aware of the potential $207 starting price.


----------



## Ruttangel

Just put this chart together which is based on latest information.
You are now much more likely to be in a preferred room rather than Standard, new buyers will need to factor in a points buffer for this.


----------



## Jwaire

Ruttangel said:


> Just put this chart together which is based on latest information.
> You are now much more likely to be in a preferred room rather than Standard, new buyers will need to factor in a points buffer for this.
> View attachment 647369



SSR looks off, but interesting chart nonetheless. They really stuck it to RIV owners with preferred rooms and high points charts.


----------



## tjkraz

Jwaire said:


> SSR looks off, but interesting chart nonetheless.



SSR info looks correct to me.



> They really stuck it to RIV owners with preferred rooms and high points charts.



Riviera rooms are cheaper than Poly and GF. IMO, Skyliner access to Epcot and HS is more efficient than monorail to MK/EP.


----------



## Cyberc1978

RamblinWreck said:


> The thing is that even if VGF is priced the same as Riviera, it's still being priced higher. It takes more points to stay at VGF than it does at RIV.
> 
> The point charts are how the resorts tend to be differentiated from each other, not by the cost of each point. Since each point is treated equally in the DVC ecosystem, it's the sensible way to do it.


That’s correct however vgf2 have at least one huge advantage over Rivera. Whenever a direct owner sells, the new owner won’t have the same ridiculous restrictions as a resale owner will with Rivera.

To me that is worth a premium.


----------



## BeachClub2014

stwaldman said:


> this feels like a little bit of a half truth, because the monorail loop resorts all came online when the point charts were shifting away from the "timeshare resort" model and more towards the "buy an interest in our best hotel rooms" model. The riviera point chart itself is very distinct from the other epcot resorts that went online 15-20 years earlier, much like how BLT is even distinct from VGF and poly which only came shortly after. None of us know what a poly/VGF point chart would look like if it was converted 20 years earlier, but the "epcot loop" kinda shows the point charts have some basis in timing as much as distinguishing value (that said, CCV is kinda an argument in the other direction).


Okay, but it's still an interesting approach.


----------



## Jwaire

tjkraz said:


> SSR info looks correct to me.



Saratoga has 264 standard and 168 preferred, not the other way around.

Edit: Post came off as snarky and didn't intend for it to be.   I just knew Saratoga was a better value (point wise) than the chart shown.


----------



## RoseGold

stwaldman said:


> The riviera point chart itself is very distinct from the other epcot resorts that went online 15-20 years earlier, much like how BLT is even distinct from VGF and poly which only came shortly after. None of us know what a poly/VGF point chart would look like if it was converted 20 years earlier



This is like saying a Mickey bar from 2019 costs more than one from 2002 and we have no idea what they would price it at in 2002.  Sure we do, they already did.  Prices go one way at Disney.  Points go one way.  The point inflation is pretty obvious starting at BLT, which already looks retro.

The RIV chart is a bit of an outlier because it scrapes against the VGF chart for a property I would argue is nowhere near VGF level location and value.  RIV's chart is just below VGF, in many places by only a couple points.  So, yea, I think it's pretty obvious the next property will exceed VGF, even if it isn't VGF level.

The reason this strategy could be modified is if point inflation combined with escalating point costs have just made overall buy in too high, which is what RIV (and AUL) might be showing.  I guess we will see if Disney believes that with the VGF2 pricing.


----------



## SusieQ93

Paul Stupin said:


> Anecdotally, even informed DVC members on these boards continue to add on at prices around $180, even though they’re well aware of the potential $207 starting price.


I think it just depends what camp you’re in. There’s one group who thinks VGF2 is going to be priced really high and thus resale could drive up even higher. So they want to get in now. We know Disney isn’t going to offer VGF for less than $180. 

Then I think there’s another group who wants to wait and see what Disney offers. It also depends on if the perks of buying direct matter to you or not. If you already have direct points and a blue card, the restrictions on resale (not being able to use at future resorts) maybe don’t matter. For a new buyer like me, a $4k discount (150 pts at 180 vs 207) isn’t worth it to me because I want to be able to use my points at any future DVC resorts, and I want the blue card. The total cost of owning a 150 pt contact is about $80k (truly hirer because maintenance fees will increase but I’m not going to do an estimate that includes inflation), so when I look at it that way, with how much you’re spending, the discount isn’t worth it to me personally.

I think it really just depends on the individual and your preferences. And while I have my speculations on price and everyone on here has done their research, at the end of the day, none of us know what Disney is going to do. We’re all just guessing and hoping it pays off.


----------



## stwaldman

RoseGold said:


> This is like saying a Mickey bar from 2019 costs more than one from 2002 and we have no idea what they would price it at in 2002.  Sure we do, they already did.  Prices go one way at Disney.  Points go one way.  The point inflation is pretty obvious starting at BLT, which already looks retro.
> 
> The RIV chart is a bit of an outlier because it scrapes against the VGF chart for a property I would argue is nowhere near VGF level location and value.  RIV's chart is just below VGF, in many places by only a couple points.  So, yea, I think it's pretty obvious the next property will exceed VGF, even if it isn't VGF level.
> 
> The reason this strategy could be modified is if point inflation combined with escalating point costs have just made overall buy in too high, which is what RIV (and AUL) might be showing.  I guess we will see if Disney believes that with the VGF2 pricing.


Lol, you literally cut off my post before I made the exact same point by saying the Epcot loop kinda shows us what we'd expect


----------



## tjkraz

Cyberc1978 said:


> That’s correct however vgf2 have at least one huge advantage over Rivera. Whenever a direct owner sells, the new owner won’t have the same ridiculous restrictions as a resale owner will with Rivera.
> 
> To me that is worth a premium.



Lot of variables to parse, obviously. Personally, I think smaller contracts at Riviera are pretty safe. Split a purchase into 50-75 point increments. There'll be people willing to make that sort of resale commitment to Riviera, even with the restriction. 

Plus the restrictions are something of a double edged sword. People can continue buying resales at SSR, OKW, AKV and others for decades to come, freely accessing VGF at 7 months. Those same resale buyers won't have access to Riviera availability. 

GF costs more points to stay, has 8 fewer years and may even cost more on the front end. That's a lot of concessions to trade over resale value concerns. Plus the number of studios they're adding at VGF reduces some of the benefit of owning there. Number of studios is growing more than 5-fold. There will be availability at 7 months out of the year.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

tjkraz said:


> Lot of variables to parse, obviously. Personally, I think smaller contracts at Riviera are pretty safe. Split a purchase into 50-75 point increments. There'll be people willing to make that sort of resale commitment to Riviera, even with the restriction.
> 
> Plus the restrictions are something of a double edged sword. People can continue buying resales at SSR, OKW, AKV and others for decades to come, freely accessing VGF at 7 months. Those same resale buyers won't have access to Riviera availability.
> 
> GF costs more points to stay, has 8 fewer years and may even cost more on the front end. That's a lot of concessions to trade over resale value concerns. Plus the number of studios they're adding at VGF reduces some of the benefit of owning there. Number of studios is growing more than 5-fold. There will be availability at 7 months out of the year.


I sure hope your right. I'll get back to you when I go to book at 7 months for December.......


----------



## Nabas

tjkraz said:


> Plus the restrictions are something of a double edged sword. People can continue buying resales at SSR, OKW, AKV and others for decades to come, freely accessing VGF at 7 months. Those same resale buyers won't have access to Riviera availability.





BWV Dreamin said:


> I sure hope your right. I'll get back to you when I go to book at 7 months for December.......


7 months for December at VGF?

We're 9 1/2 months from the start of December.  At the moment, VGF Standard View only shows 2 non-consecutive nights available for the 31 nights in December.  VGF has 7 nights available, but only 2 are consecutive nights.  People like VGF's easy access to the Grand Floridian lobby and Magic Kingdom for Christmas decorations.

202 new VGF Studios will change things a bit but many new VGF2 owners will still want December.  December probably is the single most popular month for DVC members.  Booking any Studio other than your Home Resort is problematic for December.  Even if the room you want is available at 7 months + 1 day, chances are there's a bunch of other DVC members trying for the same room at 8 AM the next morning.


----------



## Matty B13

Nabas said:


> 202 new VGF Studios will change things a bit but many new VGF2 owners will still want December.  December probably is the single most popular month for DVC members.  Booking any Studio other than your Home Resort is problematic for December.  Even if the room you want is available at 7 months + 1 day, chances are there's a bunch of other DVC members trying for the same room at 8 AM the next morning.



I hope so, we go in February and April......


----------



## BWV Dreamin

Nabas said:


> 7 months for December at VGF?
> 
> We're 9 1/2 months from the start of December.  At the moment, VGF Standard View only shows 2 non-consecutive nights available for the 31 nights in December.  VGF has 7 nights available, but only 2 are consecutive nights.  People VGF's easy access to the Grand Floridian lobby and Magic Kingdom for December.
> 
> 202 new VGF Studios will change things a bit but many new VGF2 owners will still want December.  December probably is the single most popular month for DVC members.  Booking any Studio other than your Home Resort is problematic for December.  Even if the room you want is available at 7 months + 1 day, chances are there's a bunch of other DVC members trying for the same room at 8 AM the next morning.


Yes, and my point is to make a blanket statement that there will all of a sudden be all this VGF availability at 7 months is unrealistic. Even in other months ( Oct, Nov, May, June) I hardly believe there will be much if any 7 month availability at VGF. Demand is huge at all DVC resorts right now.


----------



## Sandisw

Cyberc1978 said:


> That’s correct however vgf2 have at least one huge advantage over Rivera. Whenever a direct owner sells, the new owner won’t have the same ridiculous restrictions as a resale owner will with Rivera.
> 
> To me that is worth a premium.



That is true but buyers are the ones who decide if they want to buy it.  And right now, people are.

As soon as we get a few more resorts with restrictions…it won’t be a big deal.  Of course, DVD could decide to remove them as well if they want.

I think RIV will remain a resort that people buy on resale…like I did…to add to the other points they own which are good elsewhere.


----------



## sndral

Based on the email I got today urging me to lock in savings on a direct purchase before they disappear 3/2, I’m predicting that VGF2 pricing & terms will be revealed 3/3/22


----------



## tjkraz

BWV Dreamin said:


> I sure hope your right. I'll get back to you when I go to book at 7 months for December.......





BWV Dreamin said:


> Yes, and my point is to make a blanket statement that there will all of a sudden be all this VGF availability at 7 months is unrealistic. Even in other months ( Oct, Nov, May, June) I hardly believe there will be much if any 7 month availability at VGF. Demand is huge at all DVC resorts right now.



Until proven otherwise, December will continue to be very difficult to book. No, I am not predicting plentiful December availability anywhere, simply because the two weeks in early December are still a period where there's demand from more than 2/52nds of owners. 

Poly is the obvious parallel.  Right now, Poly has availability on 26 nights in July, 30 nights in August and 9 of the 14 September nights which currently fall inside of 7 months. 

Resorts only fill at 11 months when a large percentage of owners are booking that far out. It's not difficult to fill 47 studios at VGF when they represent only 32% of the total rooms (and far less than 32% of all points.) After VGF2, the resort will be 72% studio. Big difference, and much less likely that those rooms are consistently filled by owners.


----------



## HairyChest

Would I be correct in assuming us resale owners can’t book here? Or maybe we can since it’ll be part of the original Grand Floridian and not a new resort?


----------



## Duckbug.Ducktales

HairyChest said:


> Would I be correct in assuming us resale owners can’t book here? Or maybe we can since it’ll be part of the original Grand Floridian and not a new resort?


The latter. It'll be part of the original condo association, so resale points can be used to book VGF2 rooms.


----------



## smmora

If it goes on sale 3/3 .... on whatever date it starts

Does that mean there will be a mad dash to buy and book Dec or will VGF2 rooms be available to current VGF owners as soon as it goes on sale?


----------



## Sandisw

smmora said:


> If it goes on sale 3/3 .... on whatever date it starts
> 
> Does that mean there will be a mad dash to buy and book Dec or will VGF2 rooms be available to current VGF owners as soon as it goes on sale?



The rooms for December should be bookable as soon as they open up bookings for all VGF owners.


----------



## SusieQ93

Nabas said:


> 202 new VGF Studios will change things a bit but many new VGF2 owners will still want December.  December probably is the single most popular month for DVC members.  Booking any Studio other than your Home Resort is problematic for December.  Even if the room you want is available at 7 months + 1 day, chances are there's a bunch of other DVC members trying for the same room at 8 AM the next morning.


One of the biggest reasons I want to buy VGF is to ensure I can stay in December. The resort is gorgeous in December and walking distance to Magic Kingdom is extra valuable for the Christmas party. One of the worst things about the Christmas party is waiting for transportation at the end of the night when you’re tired. Grand Floridian just feels Christmassy too. So yes, I think it will remain very popular and probably still hard to book at 7 months out. It seems like it’s pretty hard to get anything 7 months out in December. Maybe SSR? October - December I don’t plan on being able to stay anywhere but VGF with the 11 month advantage.


----------



## tjkraz

smmora said:


> If it goes on sale 3/3 .... on whatever date it starts
> 
> Does that mean there will be a mad dash to buy and book Dec or will VGF2 rooms be available to current VGF owners as soon as it goes on sale?



It will be interesting to see how they do it. Usually when bookings open for brand new resorts, there isn't enough time to give owners the normal 11 month priority window. In the past, they've given buyers at least 2-3 weeks before opening reservations to other members. 

Here, we're already inside of 7 months for almost the entire "summer 2022" opening window. At a minimum, I would hope they process a few weeks' worth of Phase 2 sales before they open bookings for Resort Studios. They may--and some would argue should--open Resort Studios ALL VGF owners immediately. But at least the Phase 2 buyers will have a fighting chance to get rooms before they are gobbled up. Some new buyers will undoubtedly want 1, 2 and 3 bedroom villas in the original building. It's a 2-way street.


----------



## princesscinderella

Is there any advantage any more to buying while on a Disney cruise?  We are sailing on 4/16 and if they go on sale before we cruise is it worth it it wait to buy onboard?


----------



## RoseGold

princesscinderella said:


> Is there any advantage any more to buying while on a Disney cruise?  We are sailing on 4/16 and if they go on sale before we cruise is it worth it it wait to buy onboard?



Historically, the best pricing is always when it first goes on sale.  Aulani and Riviera have messed that up a bit, and who knows what DVC is doing with pricing all over the place lately.  I think it will be obvious immediately if VGF2 is priced low or high.  If it's low, I wouldn't wait until April.  If it's high, you could get a quote and take it on board with you.  There are stories of the cruise DVC salesmen beating it by a little or throwing in some cruise stuff to get it closed.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

princesscinderella said:


> Is there any advantage any more to buying while on a Disney cruise?  We are sailing on 4/16 and if they go on sale before we cruise is it worth it it wait to buy onboard?


Personally I would wait. Often times there’s a little better incentive on the ship. You will have time to make that decision as we still don’t know the opening date.


----------



## princesscinderella

RoseGold said:


> Historically, the best pricing is always when it first goes on sale.  Aulani and Riviera have messed that up a bit, and who knows what DVC is doing with pricing all over the place lately.  I think it will be obvious immediately if VGF2 is priced low or high.  If it's low, I wouldn't wait until April.  If it's high, you could get a quote and take it on board with you.  There are stories of the cruise DVC salesmen beating it by a little or throwing in some cruise stuff to get it closed.





BWV Dreamin said:


> Personally I would wait. Often times there’s a little better incentive on the ship. You will have time to make that decision as we still don’t know the opening date.


Thanks!  I guess we will wait and see


----------



## Frugal Fairy Tales

So what if when VGF2 goes on sale, Disney increases RIV prices up closer to whatever the VGF2 sale price will be, instead of lowering the initial VGF2 price to closer to the current RIV price? Can they increase RIV at anytime even though it just went up to $207?


----------



## nuhusky123

Frugal Fairy Tales said:


> So what if when VGF2 goes on sale, Disney increases RIV prices up closer to whatever the VGF2 sale price will be, instead of lowering the initial VGF2 price to closer to the current RIV price? Can they increase RIV at anytime even though it just went up to $207?


They can price riv at whatever price point they want without notice

and sure they could price riv at $300. Doesn’t mean they will sell anything though


----------



## Frugal Fairy Tales

BC is $265 direct (which is insane) so why wouldn't they increase the pricing for the other resorts as well by the end of this month, and then sell VGF2 and RIV lower than the higher pricing of all the other "sold out" resorts?


----------



## tjkraz

Frugal Fairy Tales said:


> BC is $265 direct (which is insane) so why wouldn't they increase the pricing for the other resorts as well by the end of this month, and then sell VGF2 and RIV lower than the higher pricing of all the other "sold out" resorts?



Older resorts are priced at what the market will bear. It's often a function of supply and demand. DVC gets back a trickle of points from all resorts via ROFR and foreclosures. Most of the older properties already are priced higher. They aren't going to raise the likes of Hilton Head and Vero to $220 each just to make Riviera and VGF look good. And they also aren't going to lose many RIV/VGF sales to people who insist on buying VB or HHI at lower prices.


----------



## Frugal Fairy Tales

I still think some of the direct pricing for some of the "sold out" resorts at WDW seem out of alignment compared with the others and we'll likely see price increases for those.  It would also allow Disney not to have to come in as low with VGF2.  I can't see them selling this for near Riviera's current $207.


----------



## nuhusky123

I’m still going off the video promoting vgf on dvc. Typically ranges in Price from $31,000-$55,000

ignore everything other than $31,000 as this sets the floor

if the minimum buy in is 150 point for new members and dvc sell gfv for $207

150*207=$31,050

if gfv is more than $207 dvc would not promote the typical buy in at $31,000


----------



## Nabas

nuhusky123 said:


> I’m still going off the video promoting vgf on dvc. Typically ranges in Price from $31,000-$55,000
> 
> ignore everything other than $31,000 as this sets the floor
> 
> if the minimum buy in is 150 point for new members and dvc sell gfv for $207
> 
> 150*207=$31,050
> 
> if gfv is more than $207 dvc would not promote the typical buy in at $31,000


I recall seeing this discussed, although I don't recall on which thread.

The general consensus seemed to be that pricing applied to the generic DVC product.  In other words, it was not specific to VGF.  This means that RIV would be lumped into this pricing.


----------



## Sandisw

Frugal Fairy Tales said:


> So what if when VGF2 goes on sale, Disney increases RIV prices up closer to whatever the VGF2 sale price will be, instead of lowering the initial VGF2 price to closer to the current RIV price? Can they increase RIV at anytime even though it just went up to $207?



They just raised RIV to $207. If the point was to raise it higher to make it closer to VGF, they would have done so.

But they can raise prices every day if they wanted. I just think the raise they just did is what will stay for the time being and why many think VGF will be close to that..if not the same.


----------



## Einstein509

tjkraz said:


> SSR info looks correct to me.
> 
> 
> 
> Riviera rooms are cheaper than Poly and GF. IMO, Skyliner access to Epcot and HS is more efficient than monorail to MK/EP.


Can't walk to Epcot and HS from Riviera.  You can walk to MK from VGF.


----------



## nuhusky123

Nabas said:


> I recall seeing this discussed, although I don't recall on which thread.
> 
> The general consensus seemed to be that pricing applied to the generic DVC product.  In other words, it was not specific to VGF.  This means that RIV would be lumped into this pricing.


True but it’s on the gfv video. any normal person would then assume it’s specific to gfv especially the avg buyer less educated on dvc world

Not having a minimum buy in at the $31k price point could be considered deceptive advertising and run afoul of legal consequences


----------



## Sandisw

Einstein509 said:


> Can't walk to Epcot and HS from Riviera.  You can walk to MK from VGF.



True, but it is only a benefit for those groups who actually want to walk to the MK.

Overall, I think both resorts ofter great benefits. It is why they are my top two! Though I much prefer RIV.


----------



## nuhusky123

Sandisw said:


> True, but it is only a benefit for those groups who actually want to walk to the MK.
> 
> Overall, I think both resorts ofter great benefits. It is why they are my top two! Though I much prefer RIV.


I think I’d love riv, my wife however is terrified of cable cars so that really kills riv for me


----------



## nuhusky123

I do think this is bad timing to put gfv on sale given Ukraine. When Russia invades sanctions will result in increased costs on food, fuel, compounding  inflation. Markets didn’t like the us embassy closing in Kiev as it continues to point to invasion, stocks will be taking a beating

it makes me nervous to put $31k into dvc given increasing financial headwinds. Perhaps best to sit on cash


----------



## Jimmy Geppetto

nuhusky123 said:


> I’m still going off the video promoting vgf on dvc. Typically ranges in Price from $31,000-$55,000
> 
> ignore everything other than $31,000 as this sets the floor
> 
> if the minimum buy in is 150 point for new members and dvc sell gfv for $207
> 
> 150*207=$31,050
> 
> if gfv is more than $207 dvc would not promote the typical buy in at $31,000



And to continue on this logic… if you take the BLT promotion ($48 off pp) and apply it to a price of $255 (GFV) you get $207pp.


----------



## nuhusky123

*New Member Discounts - Bay Lake Tower*

150-174 points: $14 off per point
175-199 points: $16 off
200-249 points: $26 off
250-299 points: $30 off
300-499 points: $35 off
500-999 points: $40 off
1000+ points: $42 off

new Members must buy 150 points which nets $14 off. You need to help me with the math. you only get to $207 if you buy 1000 points
1000*207=$207,000

im trying to work with you jimmy but not following your logic

how is buying 1000 points $31,000 which is the only way you get to $207


----------



## CaptainAmerica

Jimmy Geppetto said:


> And to continue on this logic… if you take the BLT promotion ($48 off pp) and apply it to a price of $255 (GFV) you get $207pp.


Not to drift too far off topic, but I don't understand why they don't get super aggressive with an Aulani promotion to sell that resort out. Sell it for $150 direct. I know at least one resale buyer who would take 150 at $150 to get the blue card. 

Me. It's me. I would do that.


----------



## CaptainAmerica

nuhusky123 said:


> *New Member Discounts - Bay Lake Tower*
> 
> 150-174 points: $14 off per point
> 175-199 points: $16 off
> 200-249 points: $26 off
> 250-299 points: $30 off
> 300-499 points: $35 off
> 500-999 points: $40 off
> 1000+ points: $42 off
> 
> new Members must buy 150 points which nets $14 off. You need to help me with the math. 1000*207=$207,000
> 
> im trying to work with you jimmy but not following your logic


Incentives for existing members are better.


----------



## nuhusky123

CaptainAmerica said:


> Incentives for existing members are better.


Yes but dvc won’t sell 2,000,000 points to just existing members


the majority of sales will be to non members


----------



## BWV Dreamin

Jimmy Geppetto said:


> And to continue on this logic… if you take the BLT promotion ($48 off pp) and apply it to a price of $255 (GFV) you get $207pp.


My point as well about 4 pages back....


----------



## Jimmy Geppetto

nuhusky123 said:


> *New Member Discounts - Bay Lake Tower*
> 
> 150-174 points: $14 off per point
> 175-199 points: $16 off
> 200-249 points: $26 off
> 250-299 points: $30 off
> 300-499 points: $35 off
> 500-999 points: $40 off
> 1000+ points: $42 off
> 
> new Members must buy 150 points which nets $14 off. You need to help me with the math. you only get to $207 if you buy 1000 points
> 1000*207=$207,000
> 
> im trying to work with you





nuhusky123 said:


> *New Member Discounts - Bay Lake Tower*
> 
> 150-174 points: $14 off per point
> 175-199 points: $16 off
> 200-249 points: $26 off
> 250-299 points: $30 off
> 300-499 points: $35 off
> 500-999 points: $40 off
> 1000+ points: $42 off
> 
> new Members must buy 150 points which nets $14 off. You need to help me with the math. you only get to $207 if you buy 1000 points
> 1000*207=$207,000
> 
> im trying to work with you jimmy but not following your logic
> 
> how is buying 1000 points $31,000 which is the only way you get to $207



No logic. Just pointing out the coincidence between the BLT promo discount and the math to get to $207 for existing members.


----------



## nuhusky123

BWV Dreamin said:


> My point about 4 pages back....


Someone has to explain how blt incentives gets someone 150 points for $31,000


----------



## Sandisw

nuhusky123 said:


> Someone has to explain how blt incentives gets someone 150 points for $31,000



I think the point was more that if DVD put These big incentives on a sold out resort at BLT..when they don’t need to sell 2 million points, then it’s a pretty great sign that VGF could come out closer to the RIV base price.

If they are willing to sell BLT close to $200/point..not for 150 points but 200 for existing owners…I think they will be willing to price VGF that way too.


----------



## nuhusky123

Sandisw said:


> I think the point was more that if DVD put These big incentives on a sold out resort at BLT..when they don’t need to sell 2 million points, then it’s a pretty great sign that VGF could come out closer to the RIV base price.
> 
> If they are willing to sell BLT close to $200/point..not for 150 points but 200 for existing owners…I think they will be willing to price VGF that way too.



yeah I agree I see no scenario where dvc sells gfv for more than riv


----------



## Jimmy Geppetto

CaptainAmerica said:


> Not to drift too far off topic, but I don't understand why they don't get super aggressive with an Aulani promotion to sell that resort out. Sell it for $150 direct. I know at least one resale buyer who would take 150 at $150 to get the blue card.
> 
> Me. It's me. I would do that.



One perspective is they enjoy collecting top dollar on the cash rooms.  Not sure I fully buy that, but it could make sense.  Without knowing how much of Aulani is sold to date, it's tough to predict.


----------



## HIRyeDVC

CaptainAmerica said:


> Not to drift too far off topic, but I don't understand why they don't get super aggressive with an Aulani promotion to sell that resort out. Sell it for $150 direct. I know at least one resale buyer who would take 150 at $150 to get the blue card.
> 
> Me. It's me. I would do that.


I think Disney is fine with not ever selling out Aulani.  I think they have no issues selling the remaining inventory as cash rooms and make their profits that way, probably forever.


----------



## CaptainAmerica

Jimmy Geppetto said:


> One perspective is they enjoy collecting top dollar on the cash rooms.  Not sure I fully buy that, but it could make sense.  Without knowing how much of Aulani is sold to date, it's tough to predict.





HIRyeDVC said:


> I think Disney is fine with not ever selling out Aulani.  I think they have no issues selling the remaining inventory as cash rooms and make their profits that way, probably forever.


I thought they had trouble selling cash rooms, which is why they do aggressive discounting for locals.


----------



## kandlsutton

Einstein509 said:


> Can't walk to Epcot and HS from Riviera.  You can walk to MK from VGF.


Only have to take a bus from RIV to 2 parks and bus rides aren't bad since RIV is more centrally located than VGF.  From VGF, you need to take bus to 3 parks, unless you deem the 2 monorails, including wait times, to get to Epcot as more efficient than a bus.

VGF proximity to MK, now with walking path, can only be beat by BLT.  Yes, BCV and BWV owners can walk to Epcot and Studios, but RIV has Skyliner to those parks and I (or my family) will still be a RIV owner in 2042 after BCV and BWV expire.  

I own at both RIV and VGF and will do split stays to avoid bus transportation as much as I can.  The Skyliner, even with its issues, still beats the bus and is our favorite transportation option because the line moves quickly and you don't have to wonder WHEN the next bus or monorail will pull up.


----------



## SusieQ93

kandlsutton said:


> Only have to take a bus from RIV to 2 parks and bus rides aren't bad since RIV is more centrally located than VGF.  From VGF, you need to take bus to 3 parks, unless you deem the 2 monorails, including wait times, to get to Epcot as more efficient than a bus.
> 
> VGF proximity to MK, now with walking path, can only be beat by BLT.  Yes, BCV and BWV owners can walk to Epcot and Studios, but RIV has Skyliner to those parks and I (or my family) will still be a RIV owner in 2042 after BCV and BWV expire.
> 
> I own at both RIV and VGF and will do split stays to avoid bus transportation as much as I can.  The Skyliner, even with its issues, still beats the bus and is our favorite transportation option because the line moves quickly and you don't have to wonder WHEN the next bus or monorail will pull up.


How often (if ever) have you been staying and had the skyliner unavailable to you? This is my biggest concern with the skyliner. But it might seem like there’s more problems than there are. Not like anyone is going to post a story saying “the skyliner ran perfectly today with no problems!”

One thing I do like about the skyliner is that the stop at Epcot is at the international gateway which I much prefer to use for an Epcot entrance. You all have me second guessing my upcoming VGF2 purchase  and are making me consider Riviera


----------



## HIRyeDVC

CaptainAmerica said:


> I thought they had trouble selling cash rooms, which is why they do aggressive discounting for locals.


who knows. Disney and the State of Hawaii has never been transparent about Aulani sales and occupancy rate.  All I know is, everytime I stay at the resort, and I've stayed there 2-3 times a year, the CMs always tell me that the resort is 90-100% booked.


----------



## Sandisw

CaptainAmerica said:


> I thought they had trouble selling cash rooms, which is why they do aggressive discounting for locals.



Even discounted, they make the money off the points. And in exchange for the guarantee on dues they provide, they don’t pay MFs on points they own so what’s been declared but not sold really doesn’t cost them.


----------



## davidl81

HIRyeDVC said:


> who knows. Disney and the State of Hawaii has never been transparent about Aulani sales and occupancy rate.  All I know is, everytime I stay at the resort, and I've stayed there 2-3 times a year, the CMs always tell me that the resort is 90-100% booked.


We own AUL after the big discount they did a few months ago and we just got back Sunday from a trip there.  It was our 4th trip overall.  It is always full there (but oddly less so this trip, but that may be due to an occupancy restriction from Hawaii).  Overall though I think Aulani has no issues selling cash rooms thus they are in no rush to fire sale DVC points just to sell out the resort.  They may offer some short term prices like they did a few months ago from time to time just to spark some sales, but overall I think they are happy as is.


----------



## HIRyeDVC

Sandisw said:


> Even discounted, they make the money off the points. And in exchange for the guarantee on dues they provide, they don’t pay MFs on points they own so what’s been declared but not sold really doesn’t cost them.


And the house always wins!


----------



## sndral

kandlsutton said:


> Only have to take a bus from RIV to 2 parks and bus rides aren't bad since RIV is more centrally located than VGF.  From VGF, you need to take bus to 3 parks, unless you deem the 2 monorails, including wait times, to get to Epcot as more efficient than a bus.
> …


Unless there’s an issue w/ the monorail you can’t take a bus to/from VGF/Epcot, you have to monorail hop, unless things have changed? 
GF walk (or monorail or boat) to MK, bus to AK & DHS (2 parks bus only,) & monorail hop to Epcot.
Riviera walk to 0 parks, bus to AK & MK (2 parks bus only,) direct Skyliner to Epcot & Skyliner hop via CBR to DHS.
I personally enjoy riding the monorail, the Skyliner, & even the boats, the buses not so much.


----------



## awatt

A thought.

If from what I've read on this thread, Riv sales are not as robust as they want, and there are more Riv points yet to sell than VGF2, if they price VGF2 much higher then it makes Riv look like a relative bargain. Sells more Riv points, and there will still be those who want the smaller pool of VGF2 points anyway.

BTW I hope I am wrong.


----------



## SusieQ93

sndral said:


> Unless there’s an issue w/ the monorail you can’t take a bus to/from VGF/Epcot, you have to monorail hop, unless things have changed?
> GF walk (or monorail or boat) to MK, bus to AK & DHS (2 parks bus only,) & monorail hop to Epcot.
> Riviera walk to 0 parks, bus to AK & MK (2 parks bus only,) direct Skyliner to Epcot & Skyliner hop via CBR to DHS.
> I personally enjoy riding the monorail, the Skyliner, & even the boats, the buses not so much.


I don’t like the busses at all. When it was just me and my husband, we would Uber (except Magic Kingdom you’d need to get dropped off at contemporary and walk and I’m sure they’ve really cracked down on that). Now with a baby, busses are in our future for the foreseeable future. I don’t know why I hate the busses so much. I think I just have been spoiled by walking at Disneyland since I consider that my “home” resort.


----------



## Sandisw

awatt said:


> A thought.
> 
> If from what I've read on this thread, Riv sales are not as robust as they want, and there are more Riv points yet to sell than VGF2, if they price VGF2 much higher then it makes Riv look like a relative bargain. Sells more Riv points, and there will still be those who want the smaller pool of VGF2 points anyway.
> 
> BTW I hope I am wrong.



I think the notion that RIV is not where they want is an assumption made here by some.

Pretty easy for DVD to have added better incentives  if they wanted. I think when Covid hit their whole plan and goals changed..why IMO we are seeing this quick flip at VGF…

DVD doesn’t care what they sell. They just want to sell and if having an MK and Epcot/HS resort close in price, they guide new buyers to whichever resort fits their needs.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

Frugal Fairy Tales said:


> So what if when VGF2 goes on sale, Disney increases RIV prices up closer to whatever the VGF2 sale price will be, instead of lowering the initial VGF2 price to closer to the current RIV price? Can they increase RIV at anytime even though it just went up to $207?


As others have pointed out, they could, but for six years in a row they’ve increased the price of DVC approximately 3%. It seems like they’re very happy with that rate.


nuhusky123 said:


> True but it’s on the gfv video. any normal person would then assume it’s specific to gfv especially the avg buyer less educated on dvc world
> 
> Not having a minimum buy in at the $31k price point could be considered deceptive advertising and run afoul of legal consequences


If you remember, upon further investigation, they been using that dollar figure in their ads for over a year.


nuhusky123 said:


> it makes me nervous to put $31k into dvc given increasing financial headwinds. Perhaps best to sit on cash


If you think a recession is coming, I absolutely would not put money into DVC. DVC prices will not hold up well in a true extended recession. Buy at the bottom though! No reason to think they won’t rebound when the market turns back positive! They did the last 2 times!


HIRyeDVC said:


> who knows. Disney and the State of Hawaii has never been transparent about Aulani sales and occupancy rate.  All I know is, everytime I stay at the resort, and I've stayed there 2-3 times a year, the CMs always tell me that the resort is 90-100% booked.


you can see all the Aulani sales you want, you just have to pay crazy amounts of money to see them online, or spend your vacation in Hawaii looking at horrible paper volumes of deeds. Orange County Florida makes the same data available for free online.

It wasn’t always like this with Aulani! You used to be able to see their sales online too! Been a bit though.

As for occupancy, Disney has historically never commented on that, and only recently has started putting total domestic hotel occupancy rates in their quarterly reports. Probably not gonna parse out Aulani hotel side occupancy from that.

Anyone who works at the front desk should have a pretty damn good sense of typical occupancy though, and I’m pretty sure some of those people post on the Aulani board here.


----------



## Einstein509

SusieQ93 said:


> How often (if ever) have you been staying and had the skyliner unavailable to you?


This has happened to us several times and it was not pleasant.


----------



## Nabas

Einstein509 said:


> This has happened to us several times and it was not pleasant.


We’ve also been stranded a few times when the Skyliner shuts down due to a thunderstorm.  The worst occurred at around 7 pm at Epcot when we waited 90 minutes in the pouring rain for a bus back to RIV. 

A steady stream of buses for other hotels showed up during these 90 minutes. For example, I counted 6 POP buses, another Skyliner hotel.  It seemed as if Disney had forgotten about RIV.  The line for a RIV bus  was incredibly long by the time a bus came. We spoke with a RIV supervisor when we finally got back.  She apologized and said they were aware of the screw-up.  They were dispatching multiple buses to get everyone back.

The Skyliner shuts down for thunderstorms, which happens frequently during the stormy summer months.


----------



## nuhusky123

Nabas said:


> We’ve also been stranded a few times when the Skyliner shuts down due to a thunderstorm.  The worst occurred at around 7 pm at Epcot when we waited 90 minutes in the pouring rain for a bus back to RIV.
> 
> A steady stream of buses for other hotels showed up during these 90 minutes. For example, I counted 6 POP buses, another Skyliner hotel.  It seemed as if Disney had forgotten about RIV.  The line for a RIV bus  was incredibly long by the time a bus came. We spoke with a RIV supervisor when we finally got back.  She apologized and said they were aware of the screw-up.  They were dispatching multiple buses to get everyone back.
> 
> The Skyliner shuts down for thunderstorms, which happens frequently during the stormy summer months.


Disney should build a walkway that connects directly to the backside of world showcase from riv

this would increase the value of riv exponentially and I’d argue make riv one of the best hotels location wise in wdw

of course won’t happen but Disney really should make walkways to all hotels given transit really sucks at wdw as a whole


----------



## DVCRad

nuhusky123 said:


> Disney should build a walkway that connects directly to the backside of world showcase from riv
> 
> this would increase the value of riv exponentially and I’d argue make riv one of the best hotels location wise in wdw
> 
> of course won’t happen but Disney really should make walkways to all hotels given transit really sucks at wdw as a whole


I think a walkway would be fantastic. It would also service caribbean beach. They could even build one over to DHS. But I agree they will never do it. I wonder if it would have been cheaper to build a walkway to those two parks and then one down to AoA. It certainly would be more reliable but then people with mobility issues couldnt use it.


----------



## DVCRad

Nabas said:


> We’ve also been stranded a few times when the Skyliner shuts down due to a thunderstorm.  The worst occurred at around 7 pm at Epcot when we waited 90 minutes in the pouring rain for a bus back to RIV.
> 
> A steady stream of buses for other hotels showed up during these 90 minutes. For example, I counted 6 POP buses, another Skyliner hotel.  It seemed as if Disney had forgotten about RIV.  The line for a RIV bus  was incredibly long by the time a bus came. We spoke with a RIV supervisor when we finally got back.  She apologized and said they were aware of the screw-up.  They were dispatching multiple buses to get everyone back.
> 
> The Skyliner shuts down for thunderstorms, which happens frequently during the stormy summer months.


I’ve thought about this before and I wonder if just walking over to Beach Club or Boardwalk and grabbing an Uber would be a good alternative. You could wait in the lobby or eat/shop if it was going to be a long wait.


----------



## New Mouse

Skyliner has major capacity issues at peak times.  Other than that, when it works it's great when it doesn't it's not.   Disney will never be dynamic enough because they will not eat the costs of what it takes to staff just in case of a closure.   They'd rather just apologize and thank you for your kind donation.   Even the token pixie dust has been going away with the amount of recent service failures.


----------



## Lorana

Nabas said:


> DVC sales are not rebounding as quickly as theme park attendance.





SusieQ93 said:


> That seems right and I don’t find it terribly surprising. I think there’s a huge pent up demand for vacationing, but do consumers have the level of confidence to put down $30k and sign a 50 year contract? I get freaked out thinking about it myself sometimes. We’ve just all been through a really traumatic time period unlike anything else in our lifetime. I think consumer confidence still needs to come back up and we need to get to a more stable place with Covid before DVC sales fully rebound.


I agree with this. The demand to vacation is there, but the demand to spend a lot of money on a timeshare?  Not so much.

Also… for new-to-Disney/DVC guests, the question will also be: is Disney worth it?

I’m a huge Disney fan. We were engaged there then married there. Our kids first vacation was there. We’re about to take 50 people down to celebrate our 20th anniversary.

But… this Disney is not the same Disney we fell in love with. I have a lot of friends who have been taking trips to Disney this year, and a lot of them are not coming back wowed. A lot of entertainment is still missing. Things that were free are costing money (and a lot of it). Food prices have gone up, portion sizes gone down. Crowds are crazy. Chapek may be crowing at the earnings meeting about how much money the parks are making now, but it’s a short-sighted view. How many of these people will be *back* after the experience you delivered them?

That’s one signal I think DVC sales is sending: they won’t be. Yes, consumer confidence is low. But I also think Disney isn’t giving that same magical experience that made us all want to buy in to the Magic. And quite honestly, while my husband and I wanted for decades to buy into DVC, we could afford to for so long… and when we finally did, it was partly because we felt Disney was pricing us out and DVC (with the AP discounts) was the way for us to keep going. And now we’re DVC and feel they’re still pricing us out, lol.

I love Disney, and we’ll keep coming back. But our trip in December felt like we were being nickled and dimed around every corner. We used to tell friends and family that Disney may be expensive but you get your money’s worth - good food and large portions, great entertainment and service, great experiences and memories. But lately we haven’t felt that you get your moneys worth. Sometimes it feels like Chapek is banking on nostalgia. And he’s not wrong. It’s one of the things that keeps us coming back. And the thing that makes us keep holding out in the hopes that this is temporary and Disney will be back to making Magic the way they used to in a year or two.

And I think - aside from consumer confidence - that’s one reason why sales aren’t doing better.

And when I land on Friday, I hope Disney proves me wrong and the Magic is alive and well.


----------



## Sandisw

SusieQ93 said:


> How often (if ever) have you been staying and had the skyliner unavailable to you? This is my biggest concern with the skyliner. But it might seem like there’s more problems than there are. Not like anyone is going to post a story saying “the skyliner ran perfectly today with no problems!”
> 
> One thing I do like about the skyliner is that the stop at Epcot is at the international gateway which I much prefer to use for an Epcot entrance. You all have me second guessing my upcoming VGF2 purchase  and are making me consider Riviera



I have stayed at RIV more than half a dozen times in the last year. It went down once for a few hours on one trip. The rest of the trips had no issues.

So, I have not experienced the down time  But when it was down, they had buses coming ever 5 minutes for those two parks while we waited for an MK bus.


----------



## Ruttangel

Lorana said:


> And when I land on Friday, I hope Disney proves me wrong and the Magic is alive and well.


We haven't been able to travel since Aug 2019 and I'm worried that Aug 2022 could be nowhere near as good. I hope I find some magic still left, hope you do too


----------



## SusieQ93

nuhusky123 said:


> of course won’t happen but Disney really should make walkways to all hotels given transit really sucks at wdw as a whole


As someone who loves walking, I agree. Any time I can rely on my own two feet is a huge plus.


----------



## SusieQ93

DVCRad said:


> I’ve thought about this before and I wonder if just walking over to Beach Club or Boardwalk and grabbing an Uber would be a good alternative. You could wait in the lobby or eat/shop if it was going to be a long wait.


That would normally be what I would do 100%. Now that we have a baby, the Uber solution (which we used to rely on frequently) isn’t so feasible. I know you can get Ubers with car seats, but I don’t know how often they’re available or if I’d feel comfortable with that. So we’re going to be reliant on Disney transportation for some time now.


----------



## BeachClub2014

nuhusky123 said:


> Disney should build a walkway that connects directly to the backside of world showcase from riv
> 
> this would increase the value of riv exponentially and I’d argue make riv one of the best hotels location wise in wdw
> 
> of course won’t happen but Disney really should make walkways to all hotels given transit really sucks at wdw as a whole



This would be awesome.


----------



## nuhusky123

BeachClub2014 said:


> This would be awesome.


Put the entrance next to Germany, looks like space on either side. Would be such an amazing amenity


----------



## Jwaire

nuhusky123 said:


> Put the entrance next to Germany, looks like space on either side. Would be such an amazing amenity



They spent a fortune to build the walking path between Grand Floridian and Magic Kingdom, so it's not out of the realm of possibility. But I don't think it's coming anytime soon. The road leading into Riviera is Esplanade Ave. Maybe they considered it?


----------



## BeachClub2014

Jwaire said:


> They spent a fortune to build the walking path between Grand Floridian and Magic Kingdom, so it's not out of the realm of possibility. But I don't think it's coming anytime soon. The road leading into Riviera is Esplanade Ave. Maybe they considered it?



They could offset the cost by selling all of us RIV owners special paver bricks!


----------



## nuhusky123

They would need to build a bridge, security station and walking path plus a ticket entrance

wouldnt be cheap but wow this would result in a quick sell out of riv. Would also allow dis to increase cash rates in my view five min walking path into Epcot. Wow

major selling point in my view.


----------



## Chuck96

If my wife could walk from RIV into Germany (her favorite WS location), we'd be buying RIV direct tonight.  And one of BeachClub2014's bricks!  For each of us.


----------



## Lorana

BeachClub2014 said:


> They could offset the cost by selling all of us RIV owners special paver bricks!


I laugh, but I totally would buy one...


----------



## RoseGold

At the time RIV was being built, there were a lot of rumblings about an on-site, luxury Epcot hotel.  That makes more sense to me than insanely expensive bridges over a major road and an extra entrance mostly for CB, a moderate resort.


----------



## BeachClub2014

RoseGold said:


> At the time RIV was being built, there were a lot of rumblings about an on-site, luxury Epcot hotel.  That makes more sense to me than insanely expensive bridges over a major road and an extra entrance mostly for CB, a moderate resort.



I guess if we had to settle for a whole new luxury resort attached to Epcot then that wouldn't be the worst thing that we had to endure.


----------



## SusieQ93

Lorana said:


> I’m a huge Disney fan. We were engaged there then married there. Our kids first vacation was there. We’re about to take 50 people down to celebrate our 20th anniversary.


 
we got engaged and married at Disney World too! And our son’s first vacation will be Disneyland in November. Congratulations on your 20th anniversary! I hope you guys have a wonderful time!


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

DVCRad said:


> I’ve thought about this before and I wonder if just walking over to Beach Club or Boardwalk and grabbing an Uber would be a good alternative. You could wait in the lobby or eat/shop if it was going to be a long wait.



We ubered from Riv to Boardwalk one evening.  Upcharge as there happened to be few around then which would happen during a busy time.  Almost $30.


----------



## Lorana

SusieQ93 said:


> we got engaged and married at Disney World too! And our son’s first vacation will be Disneyland in November. Congratulations on your 20th anniversary! I hope you guys have a wonderful time!


Thank you!!  This will technically be our midpoint between our 20th and our 21st (this trip was postponed twice!), but we're so excited to be going.  Especially given the snow and single digit temps outside my house right now, lol.

Congrats to you as well!


----------



## sndral

Nabas said:


> We’ve also been stranded a few times when the Skyliner shuts down due to a thunderstorm.  The worst occurred at around 7 pm at Epcot when we waited 90 minutes in the pouring rain for a bus back to RIV.
> 
> A steady stream of buses for other hotels showed up during these 90 minutes. For example, I counted 6 POP buses, another Skyliner hotel.  It seemed as if Disney had forgotten about RIV.  The line for a RIV bus  was incredibly long by the time a bus came. We spoke with a RIV supervisor when we finally got back.  She apologized and said they were aware of the screw-up.  They were dispatching multiple buses to get everyone back.
> 
> The Skyliner shuts down for thunderstorms, which happens frequently during the stormy summer months.


If when you arrive at the Skyliner it’s shut down do you have to walk through Epcot in the rain back to the front & then out to the bus stops? If so it’s too bad they didn’t build a temporary/emergency use bus stop somewhere nearer.
The few times I’ve been at VGF & they’ve had to use buses to/from Epcot because the monorail unexpectedly shut down it’s been confusing chaos IME.


----------



## Nabas

sndral said:


> If when you arrive at the Skyliner it’s shut down do you have to walk through Epcot in the rain back to the front & then out to the bus stops? If so it’s too bad they didn’t build a temporary/emergency use bus stop somewhere nearer.
> The few times I’ve been at VGF & they’ve had to use buses to/from Epcot because the monorail unexpectedly shut down it’s been confusing chaos IME.


In this particular instance, there was a sign at the top of the hill near the International Gateway exit instructing us to walk back to the front of Epcot.  Obviously, we were not happy about this as it had started to rain.

Another time, we were directed to walk to the Beach Club to get a bus from there.  After waiting more than 30 minutes at the Beach Club, we were informed that the Skyliner was back open so we walked back to that.

Disney really needs to get its act together about what to do when the Skyliner is closed.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

NEWS: TAs have been notified that construction will be beginning at GF and to expect noise.


----------



## deannaf87

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> NEWS: TAs have been notified that construction will be beginning at GF and to expect noise.



They haven't started on construction yet?


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

deannaf87 said:


> They haven't started on construction yet?


Correct. Based on how long recent whole building hard goods refurbishments of a similar size have taken, I think it’s safe to estimate 90-120 days from the day the building closes to the day it’s ready for the first guest.


----------



## Jimmy Geppetto

We're staying at VGF in March and I just got an email advising us that renovations will be taking place during our stay.  It was very vague.  

Looks like VGF2 is starting!  Just my guess.


----------



## nuhusky123

Jimmy Geppetto said:


> We're staying at VGF in March and I just got an email advising us that renovations will be taking place during our stay.  It was very vague.
> 
> Looks like VGF2 is starting!  Just my guess.


Isn’t the splash pad closing late February, so announcement could be specific to that too

edit looks like splash pad is open as of March 1 so yes likely gfv2 related


----------



## Jimmy Geppetto

nuhusky123 said:


> Isn’t the splash pad closing late February, so announcement could be specific to that too
> 
> edit looks like splash pad is open as of March 1 so yes likely gfv2 related


No. That’s Feb 21-28.
Well before our travel dates.


----------



## Matty B13

We are going in April and got the same notification, so I'm guessing it is about the start of VGF 2.0.


----------



## Sandisw

Jimmy Geppetto said:


> We're staying at VGF in March and I just got an email advising us that renovations will be taking place during our stay.  It was very vague.
> 
> Looks like VGF2 is starting!  Just my guess.



I saw  a report that TAs were told that the construction was starting so I think March is going to be THE month!


----------



## lowlight

Sandisw said:


> I saw  a report that TAs were told that the construction was starting so I think March is going to be THE month!


Guide said he’d be calling everyone in 2 weeks with pricing info and dates of sale.


----------



## Jimmy Geppetto

Sandisw said:


> I saw  a report that TAs were told that the construction was starting so I think March is going to be THE month!



I called Vegas and said “put $5000 on March 3rd”.  Oddly they had no idea what I was talking about.

Vegas rarely takes a losing bet.


----------



## DVCsloth

kandlsutton said:


> Only have to take a bus from RIV to 2 parks and bus rides aren't bad since RIV is more centrally located than VGF.  From VGF, you need to take bus to 3 parks, unless you deem the 2 monorails, including wait times, to get to Epcot as more efficient than a bus.
> 
> VGF proximity to MK, now with walking path, can only be beat by BLT.  Yes, BCV and BWV owners can walk to Epcot and Studios, but RIV has Skyliner to those parks and I (or my family) will still be a RIV owner in 2042 after BCV and BWV expire.
> 
> I own at both RIV and VGF and will do split stays to avoid bus transportation as much as I can.  The Skyliner, even with its issues, still beats the bus and is our favorite transportation option because the line moves quickly and you don't have to wonder WHEN the next bus or monorail will pull up.


We walk from VGF to Polynesian and have a QS lunch or breakfast, then off to TTC for the Monorail when we visit Epcot. Skyliner and Riviera are pretty awesome as well!


----------



## DVCsloth

Sandisw said:


> I have stayed at RIV more than half a dozen times in the last year. It went down once for a few hours on one trip. The rest of the trips had no issues.
> 
> So, I have not experienced the down time  But when it was down, they had buses coming ever 5 minutes for those two parks while we waited for an MK bus.


Our first trip to Riviera was when the skyliner was only a couple months old. We had it shut down quite a few times during our stay. I think they were being overly cautious because of the lightning. Busses were up and running right away and run like clockwork. We were trying to leave Epcot once and it started to storm, we were all the way near the International Gateway, so we walked all the way to the front for a bus back to Riviera. We just guessed that the Skyliner would be down, and we were right, but they need to figure a way to let people know.


----------



## js

On FB, someone said their guide called them and was in a meeting today and said they cant say much but sales will be soon.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

Sandisw said:


> I saw  a report that TAs were told that the construction was starting so I think March is going to be THE month!


was it my post above? 


Epcot Forever Forever said:


> NEWS: TAs have been notified that construction will be beginning at GF and to expect noise.


----------



## Sandisw

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> was it my post above?



Could be!!


----------



## nuhusky123

Dvc is starting a sweepstake for gfv giving away what looks like a free stay in the new studios. Link is up but sweepstake not yet live, starts noon est today

https://disneyvacationclub.disney.go.com/villas-at-grand-floridian-resort-and-spa


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

nuhusky123 said:


> Dvc is starting a sweepstake for gfv giving away what looks like a free stay in the new studios. Link is up but sweepstake not yet live, starts noon est today
> 
> https://disneyvacationclub.disney.go.com/villas-at-grand-floridian-resort-and-spa


I think it’s very strange that they are still calling them “proposed”. Did we ever sort out why that language?


----------



## lowlight

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> I think it’s very strange that they are still calling them “proposed”. Did we ever sort out why that language?



Think it’s just CYA legalese since it leads to this.  
“Proposed all new Resort Studios are not yet fully registered or available for sale. Projected to open summer 2022. Actual inventory offered may vary by state of residence.”


----------



## RoseGold

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> I think it’s very strange that they are still calling them “proposed”. Did we ever sort out why that language?



It's CYA, the same reason Reflections is still in all the paperwork.  They have advertised it, but until it's done, it's not done.


----------



## Sandisw

My guide just confirmed that first week of March is when sales will begin.  No other details to share yet.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

Best of luck to all who are planning on purchasing. Given all that we know, I say put in your final price for the open at VGF2.
I’ll start….opens at $255/pt.  with incentives that bring it down to $214/pt.  Lets have some final fun on this thread.


----------



## nuhusky123

$207 base plus incentives


----------



## DisneyMom_3

I was hoping for the same price as Riviera, but their wording is making me a little nervous - "As the crown jewel of Disney Vacation Club". Sounds to me like they are saying VGF *is* superior to Riviera.


----------



## Sandisw

My final price is $215 with incentives bringing it down to BLT and RIV pricing.

Minimum buy in for current members raises to 50 points.


----------



## DisneyMom_3

nuhusky123 said:


> $207 base plus incentives


I sure hope you are correct!


----------



## lowlight

212 pt plus incentives.


----------



## DisneyMom_3

Interesting that the sweepstakes is for a 1 Bedroom!


----------



## Duckbug.Ducktales

This much-discussed disclaimer was again on the sweepstakes video. But it makes me think once again that they expect it to start at $207 (for 150 min for new members). So $207 is my vote! I think they can simply have different incentives compared to RVA if they want to differentiate.


----------



## Nabas

DisneyMom_3 said:


> I was hoping for the same price as Riviera, but their wording is making me a little nervous - "As the crown jewel of Disney Vacation Club". Sounds to me like they are saying VGF *is* superior to Riviera.


That wording also made me second-guess my recent pricing assumptions. That wording makes me think $207 is not the lock I thought it was the past week or two.

Months ago, I guessed $210 to $225, so I’ll stick with that.


----------



## Duckbug.Ducktales

Nabas said:


> That wording also made me second-guess my recent pricing assumptions. That wording makes me think $207 is not the lock I thought it was the past week or two.
> 
> Months ago, I guessed $210 to $225, so I’ll stick with that.


Was that on the Sweepstakes video? I missed it


----------



## BeachClub2014

I'm guessing somewhere in the $215 to $220 range with incentives proportional to the incentives that are being offered for other resorts.


----------



## thank_the_phoenicians88

My vote is that it will match Aulani pricing. 150 points today at $207 a point plus incentives put Aulani at $30,029.  325 points (the top of DVC price calculator) puts the cost at $55,983, or $172 a point. This falls pretty close to the range they are listing between $31K and $55K.


----------



## rubybutt

$207 with incentives at 300 points of $25.  300 points at $282 pp


----------



## Nabas

Duckbug.Ducktales said:


> Was that on the Sweepstakes video? I missed it


Refer to this page announcing the Sweepstakes ("As the crown jewel of the Disney Vacation Club"):

Studio Villas at Grand Floridian Resort & Space | Disney Vacation Club (go.com)




What, the Grand Californian isn't good enough?


----------



## zebsterama

I have no idea where pricing lands, but I'm hopeful, with incentives it's closer to the $200 mark than the $220 mark.

My guess it's $207 with incentives to start, and within a month it jumps to $215.

 Godspeed my DVC point buying friends!!


----------



## tidefan

To think that I bought VGF1 when it went on sale for $145/pt...


----------



## Nabas

tidefan said:


> To think that I bought VGF1 when it went on sale for $145/pt...


To think I bought BWV at $55/pt.


----------



## tidefan

Nabas said:


> To think I bought at BWV at $55/pt.


Our first SSR ones were at $94, BLT was $110, GFV was $145 and I can't remember what Poly was...


----------



## zebsterama

tidefan said:


> To think that I bought VGF1 when it went on sale for $145/pt...





Nabas said:


> To think I bought at BWV at $55/pt.



Stop it, you're killing me!


----------



## Frugal Fairy Tales

It’s amazing how Disney has everyone excited about spending tens of thousands of dollars


----------



## BWV Dreamin

Frugal Fairy Tales said:


> It’s amazing how Disney has everyone excited about spending tens of thousands of dollars


Well the next thread will be about the starting price at Storyliving...LOL


----------



## lowlight

Frugal Fairy Tales said:


> It’s amazing how Disney has everyone excited about spending tens of thousands of dollars



i don’t know if excited is the right term.  I feel pretty guilty about rewarding Disney for taking the dirty and cheap way out of renovating those new rooms without a kitchenette or microwave, but I’m just one man, and my wife really wants VGF add on…


----------



## Frugal Fairy Tales

BWV Dreamin said:


> Well the next thread will be about the starting price at Storyliving...LOL


And then it will be HUNDREDS of thousands of dollars and more! LOL


----------



## Duckbug.Ducktales

Nabas said:


> Refer to this page announcing the Sweepstakes ("As the crown jewel of the Disney Vacation Club"):
> 
> Studio Villas at Grand Floridian Resort & Space | Disney Vacation Club (go.com)
> 
> View attachment 647947
> 
> 
> What, the Grand Californian isn't good enough?


Hahaha. If prevailing rate is any indication, that's really the crown jewel!


----------



## mrsap

This was posted this morning on DVC News…

*Grand Floridian Big Pine Key Villa Conversion To Begin March 1*

On March 1, 2022, crews will begin work to add 202 new Disney Vacation Club Villas to Disney's Grand Floridian Resort & Spa.

Similar notices have been provided to travel agents, confirming that work largely impacts the Big Pine Key building. Construction barriers, equipment and materials should be expected on-site during the conversion.

The Big Pine Key Resort Studios are expected to open in summer 2022. Sales may begin at any time, however exact dates and prices have not been revealed.


----------



## PinkPixel

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> NEWS: TAs have been notified that construction will be beginning at GF and to expect noise.


Is the construction only in the Pine Key conversion or other non DVC resort areas?


----------



## Ruttangel

Duckbug.Ducktales said:


> View attachment 647914
> This much-discussed disclaimer was again on the sweepstakes video. But it makes me think once again that they expect it to start at $207 (for 150 min for new members). So $207 is my vote! I think they can simply have different incentives compared to RVA if they want to differentiate.


Remember that disclaimer says 2062, which is AUL not VGF


----------



## Duckbug.Ducktales

Ruttangel said:


> Remember that disclaimer says 2062, which is AUL not VGF


Right! Okay, amendment: $220
Maybe I'll be closest without going over


----------



## nuhusky123

Ruttangel said:


> Remember that disclaimer says 2062, which is AUL not VGF


So Disney is promoting a price in an ad they are using to get sales. Legally Disney will be at risk of breaking laws by presenting inaccurate prices which is then misleading. dvc risks running afoul of FTC truth in advertising


----------



## lowlight

nuhusky123 said:


> So Disney is promoting a price in an ad they are using to get sales. Legally Disney will be at risk of breaking laws by presenting inaccurate prices which is then misleading. dvc risks running afoul of FTC truth in advertising



I think you’re correct, but the caveat is they haven’t started selling yet and the asterisk is there with the legalese.  Disney knows how to CYA.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

BWV Dreamin said:


> Best of luck to all who are planning on purchasing. Given all that we know, I say put in your final price for the open at VGF2.
> I’ll start….opens at $255/pt.  with incentives that bring it down to $214/pt.  Lets have some final fun on this thread.


$215 with crappy incentives that are different from Riviera and Aulani.


----------



## nuhusky123

lowlight said:


> I think you’re correct, but the caveat is they haven’t started selling yet and the asterisk is there with the legalese.  Disney knows how to CYA.


Oh they know how to cya but it’s borderline intentionally misleading


----------



## Ruttangel

nuhusky123 said:


> So Disney is promoting a price in an ad they are using to get sales. Legally Disney will be at risk of breaking laws by presenting inaccurate prices which is then misleading. dvc risks running afoul of FTC truth in advertising


The ad says the cost of DVC ownership starts at $31k, which is consistent with active sales. I'm sure they have this angle covered but it has certainly caused confusion, could still be $207 though. I guess $225 with stronger incentives to RIV. Based on previous sales Members will get about 30 day window before General Public


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

PinkPixel said:


> Is the construction only in the Pine Key conversion or other non DVC resort areas?


For now Pine Key but we are expecting the rest of the hotel side of the resort to get a refurbishment this year as well.


----------



## smmora

BWV Dreamin said:


> Well the next thread will be about the starting price at Storyliving...LOL



I told my mom she should buy a condo there =D


----------



## davidl81

$207 with actually pretty good incentives during presale first for existing members.  Prices will rise fairly quickly after that though.


----------



## RoseGold

nuhusky123 said:


> So Disney is promoting a price in an ad they are using to get sales. Legally Disney will be at risk of breaking laws by presenting inaccurate prices which is then misleading. dvc risks running afoul of FTC truth in advertising



I don't see what's misleading about the ad, no matter how high they price.  You can buy Aulani for that now.


----------



## SusieQ93

I am guessing $207 for the pp cost. But that might just be because that’s what I want it to be


----------



## SusieQ93

Ruttangel said:


> Based on previous sales Members will get about 30 day window before General Public


Non member here, does the price usually go up from what they offer to members in pre-sale?


----------



## Ruttangel

SusieQ93 said:


> Non member here, does the price usually go up from what they offer to members in pre-sale?


I would assume the base price will be the same but members get better discount as per all current incentives but all to be confirmed


----------



## nuhusky123

Chapeak grows a heart and gives gfv away for free  new prediction


----------



## DVCsloth

tidefan said:


> Our first SSR ones were at $94, BLT was $110, GFV was $145 and I can't remember what Poly was...


I think Poly was $165 because we bought VGF for $165 before Poly went on sale and I kind of remember it being the same price.


----------



## DVCsloth

Sandisw said:


> My guide just confirmed that first week of March is when sales will begin.  No other details to share yet.


Probably wasn't going to buy anyways, but since I have a March use year it will definitely be a no.


----------



## lowlight

nuhusky123 said:


> Chapeak grows a heart and gives gfv away for free  new prediction


He’s got a heart it’s just two sizes too small.


----------



## nuhusky123

lowlight said:


> He’s got a heart it’s just two sizes too small.


I think you just cracked it, he’s a Universal stooge in disguise sent to Disney to ruin our Christmas. Explains everything. Quick look for green fur


----------



## sethschroeder

SleeplessInTO said:


> I have zero interest in purchasing Riviera. But I am very interested in VGF2. So disney actually is attracting x+y buyers by offering both. Yes VGF2 sales may cannibalize some RIV sales but overall it will increase the number of buyers of DVC direct in 2022.



Why? 

You could already get VGF if you wanted? 

They just need to market it they didn't need a whole new resort for it to sell. Also the refurb was happening as well regardless.


----------



## sethschroeder

nuhusky123 said:


> this would increase the value of riv exponentially and I’d argue make riv one of the best hotels location wise in wdw



Not just RIV which they will sell regardless but also all of CBR as they could flip it all to deluxe in that area. 

Also include a path to HS as well under the Skyliner itself.


----------



## sethschroeder

RoseGold said:


> extra entrance mostly for CB, a moderate resort.



Thing is they can rip down and replace all of CBR or at least flip it. Turn it in to Europe as an extension of the World Showcase with it being like a town in the alps or oh the Rhine ect. They could even turn each section of CBR in to a country themed resort.

It will come at some point if the goal of Disney is to extract max money primary from middle-upper/upper class.


----------



## DVCsloth

sethschroeder said:


> Thing is they can rip down and replace all of CBR or at least flip it. Turn it in to Europe as an extension of the World Showcase with it being like a town in the alps or oh the Rhine ect. They could even turn each section of CBR in to a country themed resort.
> 
> It will come at some point if the goal of Disney is to extract max money primary from middle-upper/upper class.


CBR near the main gondola seems to me that is a better location than Riviera.


----------



## lowlight

sethschroeder said:


> Thing is they can rip down and replace all of CBR or at least flip it. Turn it in to Europe as an extension of the World Showcase with it being like a town in the alps or oh the Rhine ect. They could even turn each section of CBR in to a country themed resort.
> 
> It will come at some point if the goal of Disney is to extract max money primary from middle-upper/upper class.



Disney hire this man as an idea guy please.


----------



## nuhusky123

sethschroeder said:


> Thing is they can rip down and replace all of CBR or at least flip it. Turn it in to Europe as an extension of the World Showcase with it being like a town in the alps or oh the Rhine ect. They could even turn each section of CBR in to a country themed resort.
> 
> It will come at some point if the goal of Disney is to extract max money primary from middle-upper/upper class.


That’s a really cool idea, let’s take it one step further. Epcot world showcase has all the different countries. Let’s create one hotel building where CBC used to be to reflect the same countries in Epcot 

a livable version of Epcot


----------



## sethschroeder

DVCsloth said:


> CBR near the main gondola seems to me that is a better location than Riviera.



I have never had a long wait (we even had a party of 6 last time) simply because at the main terminal everyone is there and only handicap go in the accessible gondolas. At Riviera anyone waiting would go in the accessible gondolas as well. 

Prefer the much shorter wait to Epcot since end up there almost daily in the evening.


----------



## sethschroeder

Caught up on the thread and I am locking in my price. 

$220

Incentive of $13 off at 150 points good through May 12th

Lower than I thought but those point charts for that room type makes up for it I think.


----------



## RoseGold

Im coming in $275.  Maybe heavy incentives at the drop.

DVC’s recent price shenanigans have me baffled.  But VGF is still the crown jewel and once they sell it though it, there’s nothing else even announced.


----------



## UrsulaWantsYourSoul

RoseGold said:


> DVC’s recent price shenanigans have me baffled.  But VGF is still the crown jewel and once they sell it though it, there’s nothing else even announced.



I’ve heard tale of a tower being erected in Anaheim. . With VGF2 about to launch with 2 million points along with Riviera’s tons of points and the never-sell-out Aulani - I bet they have plans for what comes next but aren’t in any rush to even announce. I wonder what’s the record for simultaneous actively selling (not sold out) resorts. Even announcing another might make some people wait (much like we are for DLTower).  That would be a fascinating hypothetical: if they were to announce Reflections opening 2026 how many would reduce or eliminate their planned purchase of VGF?


----------



## RoseGold

UrsulaWantsYourSoul said:


> Even announcing another might make some people wait (much like we are for DLTower). That would be a fascinating hypothetical: if they were to announce Reflections opening 2026 how many would reduce or eliminate their planned purchase of VGF?



There's no permits filed for anything outside what we know.  The pre-Covid resort projects at Epcot and Reflections have been scrapped. Only Star Wars hotel survived.

DLT will have no trouble selling, and is targeted at a different buyer.  I guess DVC could be flipping a Vero2 right now and we wouldn't even know. I bet everyone would be thrilled with that...


----------



## nuhusky123

UrsulaWantsYourSoul said:


> I’ve heard tale of a tower being erected in Anaheim. . With VGF2 about to launch with 2 million points along with Riviera’s tons of points and the never-sell-out Aulani - I bet they have plans for what comes next but aren’t in any rush to even announce. I wonder what’s the record for simultaneous actively selling (not sold out) resorts. Even announcing another might make some people wait (much like we are for DLTower).  That would be a fascinating hypothetical: if they were to announce Reflections opening 2026 how many would reduce or eliminate their planned purchase of VGF?


Only problem is that’s four years away. By that point base price could be approaching $300. Better to buy in now and use your points at 7 months


----------



## DVChris

nuhusky123 said:


> Only problem is that’s four years away. By that point base price could be approaching $300. Better to buy in now and use your points at 7 months


4 years away? I heard Pete say on a recent show that DLT is expected to open in 2023 with sales starting towards the end of this year.


----------



## nuhusky123

DVChris said:


> 4 years away? I heard Pete say on a recent show that DLT is expected to open in 2023 with sales starting towards the end of this year.


Referring to above posters reflections comment in 2026


----------



## DVChris

nuhusky123 said:


> Referring to above posters reflections comment in 2026


My bad, thanks for the clarification!


----------



## jbreen2010

I talked to a guide today.
On the “add on tool” I saw grand Floridian listed as coming soon so I filled out the box and got a call from a guide. I own 3 resale contracts so did not have a guide.

The guide told me she didn’t have pricing, deals, or know exactly when sales would start but that she was told very soon. She told me she would keep me on her list when they do open up.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

RoseGold said:


> Im coming in $275.  Maybe heavy incentives at the drop.
> 
> DVC’s recent price shenanigans have me baffled.  But VGF is still the crown jewel and once they sell it though it, there’s nothing else even announced.


They’re going to have 4 resorts for sale at once at some point next year. I’m not holding my breath for an announcement of a brand new resort at WDW until Riviera is 75%+ sold, they won’t want to step on sales. Especially if the rumors of a second CR DVC come true.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

nuhusky123 said:


> Only problem is that’s four years away. By that point base price could be approaching $300. Better to buy in now and use your points at 7 months


Base prices aren’t going up anywhere near that much unless they can start moving the resorts they have. They’ve done ~3% a year for 6 years in a row.


----------



## Paul Stupin

RoseGold said:


> Im coming in $275.  Maybe heavy incentives at the drop.
> 
> DVC’s recent price shenanigans have me baffled.  But VGF is still the crown jewel and once they sell it though it, there’s nothing else even announced.


At least you’re sticking to your guns! I hope you’re way off, but who knows…


----------



## Jelly563

Paul Stupin said:


> At least you’re sticking to your guns! I hope you’re way off, but who knows…



I was also in the $275 camp. I'm willing to dip down a little bit but not to the extent of most on here. They are not going to give away VGF point people, you are going to have to PAY.   $250


----------



## Paul Stupin

Jelly563 said:


> I was also in the $275 camp. I'm willing to dip down a little bit but not to the extent of most on here. They are not going to give away VGF point people, you are going to have to PAY.   $250


I think you’re wrong for all the reasons we’ve discussed a million times. But your pov is basically that VGF is the signature property of WDW, and as a result it transcends any pricing strategy that DVC has ever used, in its history, in the last 30 years, to launch sales for any kind of new DVC offering. It exists in a world of its own, and cannot be compared in any way, shape or form to any other DVC resort that has initially sold for far less.

Thats a pretty grand view of an older hotel wing going through a quick refurb with pretty much zero actual remodeling, and a truncated expiration date.  Granted, I love it, and can’t wait to buy more points, but if the pricing is monumentally high, I’ll look elsewhere, along with most everyone else. Thats why I think it’ll be priced reasonably.


----------



## Marionnette

Paul Stupin said:


> I think you’re wrong for all the reasons we’ve discussed a million times. But your pov is basically that VGF is the signature property of WDW, and as a result it transcends any pricing strategy that DVC has ever used, in its history, in the last 30 years, to launch sales for any kind of new DVC offering. It exists in a world of its own, and cannot be compared in any way, shape or form to any other DVC resort that has initially sold for far less.
> 
> Thats a pretty grand view of an older hotel wing going through a quick refurb with pretty much zero actual remodeling, and a truncated expiration date.  Granted, I love it, and can’t wait to buy more points, but if the pricing is monumentally high, I’ll look elsewhere, along with most everyone else. Thats why I think it’ll be priced reasonably.


Except that DVC is not selling a new resort. They're selling more points at an existing resort that has been listed at a base price of $255/point for quite some time now. They won't be marketing just the "resort studios". They'll be flashing those 6 grand villas with their steam showers and media rooms to potential buyers. Guides will be sharing a points chart that includes the 1BR and 2BR options that buyers can reserve. Why do you think that VGF got a refurb ahead of schedule this past December? 

Historically speaking, when was the last time you saw DVC reduce the base price of any of their existing resorts? Yes. They offer incentives that drop that out of pocket cost down, but they have never reduced the base price. I fully expect that VGF2 will open sales at the $255 base price with significant incentives that bring the actual cost closer to, but still slightly higher than, RIV.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> They’re going to have 4 resorts for sale at once at some point next year. I’m not holding my breath for an announcement of a brand new resort at WDW until Riviera is 75%+ sold, they won’t want to step on sales. Especially if the rumors of a second CR DVC come true.


What is a CR DVC?


----------



## BWV Dreamin

Marionnette said:


> Except that DVC is not selling a new resort. They're selling more points at an existing resort that has been listed at a base price of $255/point for quite some time now. They won't be marketing just the "resort studios". They'll be flashing those 6 grand villas with their steam showers and media rooms to potential buyers. Guides will be sharing a points chart that includes the 1BR and 2BR options that buyers can reserve. Why do you think that VGF got a refurb ahead of schedule this past December?
> 
> Historically speaking, when was the last time you saw DVC reduce the base price of any of their existing resorts? Yes. They offer incentives that drop that out of pocket cost down, but they have never reduced the base price. I fully expect that VGF2 will open sales at the $255 base price with significant incentives that bring the actual cost closer to, but still slightly higher than, RIV.


Absolutely, well said.


----------



## Nabas

I wonder, could the recent BLT deep discount from a sold out resort price be a test run for using the same strategy at VGF2?


----------



## BWV Dreamin

Nabas said:


> I wonder, could the recent BLT deep discount from a sold out resort price be a test run for using the same strategy for VGF2?


Yes. Thats why I don’t think it’s coming in at the same price as Riviera. If sales go well with VGF, expect this same strategy to happen at other DVC’s ( Boardwalk Inn, Yacht Club, etc).


----------



## SleeplessInTO

BWV Dreamin said:


> Yes. Thats why I don’t think it’s coming in at the same price as Riviera. If sales go well with VGF, expect this same strategy to happen at other DVC’s ( Boardwalk Inn, Yacht Club, etc).


Oh I hope you’re right. I would love to own at Yacht Club. Even if it expires in 15 years from when I buy. (I know it’s unlikely but a girl can dream!!)


----------



## nuhusky123

SleeplessInTO said:


> Oh I hope you’re right. I would love to own at Yacht Club. Even if it expires in 15 years from when I buy. (I know it’s unlikely but a girl can dream!!)


Why would it expire in 15 years. yc would be a new association with its own date of expiration


----------



## nuhusky123

Marionnette said:


> Except that DVC is not selling a new resort. They're selling more points at an existing resort that has been listed at a base price of $255/point for quite some time now. They won't be marketing just the "resort studios". They'll be flashing those 6 grand villas with their steam showers and media rooms to potential buyers. Guides will be sharing a points chart that includes the 1BR and 2BR options that buyers can reserve. Why do you think that VGF got a refurb ahead of schedule this past December?
> 
> Historically speaking, when was the last time you saw DVC reduce the base price of any of their existing resorts? Yes. They offer incentives that drop that out of pocket cost down, but they have never reduced the base price. I fully expect that VGF2 will open sales at the $255 base price with significant incentives that bring the actual cost closer to, but still slightly higher than, RIV.


who on this board will buy at $255 or above? I won’t, that’s a crazy high price

$207 and I’ll buy but on 100 points $255 vs $207 is a delta of $5000. That’s a lot of money

if dvc lists gfv at $255 sales will be garbage


----------



## DisneyMom_3

nuhusky123 said:


> Dvc is starting a sweepstake for gfv giving away what looks like a free stay in the new studios. Link is up but sweepstake not yet live, starts noon est today
> 
> https://disneyvacationclub.disney.go.com/villas-at-grand-floridian-resort-and-spa



Anyone else having trouble entering? My email address has an underscore and it won’t let me type it into my email to enter. 
I tried yesterday and today on my computer and phone.


----------



## DKZB

I own multiple re-sale contracts at various resorts. I will not buy RIV or AUL, RIV for resale restrictions and AUL because of dues and not being able to get anything until 7 months (Although the December sales had me tempted!). Both VGF and the sold out offer on BLT is tempting me into "upgrading" some of my points because I want to be able to stay at RIV, DLT and anything else that comes afterward. The only reason I am considering this now is a fear that these are the last really good deals on 2060+ resorts (Not AUL) without resale restrictions. A couple things come to mind:

- $200/pp IS NOT cheap even if it is less than they have been selling
- If Direct prices go up, resale prices likely will too making the likely spread to upgrade about the same in the future
- I already own a lot of resale points (SSR / VGF / BLT) and owning more means I will likely start renting some
- I have friends and co-workers with "Direct" points that I could swap with if I wanted to stay at RIV

Part of me wants to sign a contract on 200-250 BLT points on nearly the last day of the sale to have 10 days to see where VGF comes in. Someone please talk me out of this!


----------



## SleeplessInTO

nuhusky123 said:


> Why would it expire in 15 years. yc would be a new association with its own date of expiration


It’s a hypothetical. I could have said 15 years. Or 50 years. Or 100 years. Or 14.56391 + e^4 years. The point is I would buy YC.


----------



## New Mouse

lowlight said:


> I think you’re correct, but the caveat is they haven’t started selling yet and the asterisk is there with the legalese.  Disney knows how to CYA.




Not really, they wind up settling on more lawsuits than you'd imagine.


----------



## Nabas

nuhusky123 said:


> who on this board will buy at $255 or above? I won’t, that’s a crazy high price
> 
> $207 and I’ll buy but on 100 points $255 vs $207 is a delta of $5000. That’s a lot of money
> 
> if dvc lists gfv at $255 sales will be garbage


I think the idea being bounced about is offering VGF2 at a higher price but then having deep discounts for larger contracts, like what’s happening at BLT at the moment.

BLT is still listed at $245pp but a contract of 1000 points includes an existing member discount of $48pp.

I still think $255pp is too high for Disney to sell in volume, but maybe a number somewhere in between $207pp and $255pp is what Disney has in mind.

Remember, the typical sold-out resort sells only about 1000 to 4000 points per month (VGF1 was selling about 2000 per month) while an actively marketed resort typically sells over 100,000 points per month.

But we are talking about the Disney under the control of Chapek, who has made it abundantly clear that he feels no obligation to follow the old rules.  Undoubtedly, those under him are being directed to be more “creative” when it comes to pricing.

With Chapek’s background in merchandising, setting the price high and then offering discounts might seem normal to him.

The point is, just because Disney did something in the past doesn’t mean the Chapek administration is going to follow the same playbook.


----------



## Jimmy Geppetto

I’m going with $255 base price with incentives starting at $15pp plus an additional $10 off for existing members.

So $230pp for existing members.

And for the record… I hope I am wrong.


----------



## lowlight

Anything over 220 before incentives is a non starter for me.  I honestly do not like the new resort rooms and I can’t imagine most do, which means the competition for deluxe studio and 1br will be fierce.  Why pay top dollar for that?


----------



## Einstein509

Nabas said:


> I think the idea being bounced about is offering VGF2 at a higher price but then having deep discounts for larger contracts, like what’s happening at BLT at the moment.
> 
> BLT is still listed at $245pp but a contract of 1000 points includes an existing member discount of $48pp.
> 
> I still think $255pp is too high for Disney to sell in volume, but maybe a number somewhere in between $207pp and $255pp is what Disney has in mind.
> 
> Remember, the typical sold-out resort sells only about 1000 to 4000 points per month (VGF1 was selling about 2000 per month) while an actively marketed resort typically sells over 100,000 points per month.
> 
> But we are talking about the Disney under the control of Chapek, who has made it abundantly clear that he feels no obligation to follow the old rules.  Undoubtedly, those under him are being directed to be more “creative” when it comes to pricing.
> 
> With Chapek’s background in merchandising, setting the price high and then offering discounts might seem normal to him.
> 
> The point is, just because Disney did something in the past doesn’t mean the Chapek administration is going to follow the same playbook.


Exactly!  The Cheapek regime is in control now.  Starting price $255 with incentives to bring it into the $210-$230 range the more points you buy.

Cheapek will make you pay for VGF2, just like everything else.


----------



## Einstein509

DisneyMom_3 said:


> Sounds to me like they are saying VGF *is* superior to Riviera.


Cause it is.....


----------



## Nabas

lowlight said:


> Anything over 220 before incentives is a non starter for me.  I honestly do not like the new resort rooms and I can’t imagine most do, which means the competition for deluxe studio and 1br will be fierce.  Why pay top dollar for that?


The VGF2 sales video pushes VGF1 rooms just as much as VGF2 rooms.

These boards aside, I suspect most VGF2 members will be first-time buyers.  They most likely will have no clue of what you’re talking about which, I suspect, is exactly what Disney wants.


----------



## Her Dotness

lowlight said:


> I honestly do not like the new resort rooms and I can’t imagine most do, which means the competition for deluxe studio and 1br will be fierce.  Why pay top dollar for that?



I'm wondering if we current owners aren't blinded by experience and not seeing some definite advantages to the resort studios for more people than we think.

While 2023 points can certainly change in succeeding years, they'll be terrific for a family of 5 who find the current studio feeling cramped--book two resort studios at about the same points as a 1br. That's particularly so if Kid #6 comes along. In a short few years, they'll be too many for a 1br but room-to-grow in 2 resort studios.

Both some owners and prospective ones may actually prefer the resort studios. They don't eat in the room and don't want anything "kitcheny," may not use mini-fridge or coffeemaker at all. This IS the Grand with how many great restaurants?

There are other reasons two resort studios may appeal more than a 1br. In 2023, points cost alone plus more bodies in the space could be a biggie, IMO.


----------



## lowlight

Einstein509 said:


> Cause it is.....



In my opinion, VGF is the best monorail resort and Riviera is the best Epcot resort.  If you are not a MK fan I can’t imagine you’d love staying at VGF for park days.   But preferences are unique to everyone and I imagine a lot of people hate both and would rather something like OKW.


----------



## lowlight

Her Dotness said:


> I'm wondering if we current owners aren't blinded by experience and not seeing some definite advantages to the resort studios for more people than we think.
> 
> While 2023 points can certainly change in succeeding years, they'll be terrific for a family of 5 who find the current studio feeling cramped--book two resort studios at about the same points as a 1br. That's particularly so if Kid #6 comes along. In a short few years, they'll be too many for a 1br but room-to-grow in 2 resort studios.
> 
> Both some owners and prospective ones may actually prefer the resort studios. They don't eat in the room and don't want anything "kitcheny," may not use mini-fridge or coffeemaker at all. This IS the Grand with how many great restaurants?
> 
> There are other reasons two resort studios may appeal more than a 1br. In 2023, points cost alone plus more bodies in the space could be a biggie, IMO.



I only glanced at the point charts for my usual weeks at WDW and the points were the same for resort studio and deluxe studio.  Are they different at some times or the year?  
I do agree it will be better for some people to have more room, but to pitch DVC as a second home is tough when you don’t have a microwave, sink and fridge.


----------



## SusieQ93

nuhusky123 said:


> who on this board will buy at $255 or above? I won’t, that’s a crazy high price
> 
> $207 and I’ll buy but on 100 points $255 vs $207 is a delta of $5000. That’s a lot of money
> 
> if dvc lists gfv at $255 sales will be garbage


No way will I buy at $255. And these are the diehards on these boards. I love Disney but even I have my limits. $255 was a sold out price that isn’t even marketed to new buyers. I don’t think most people realize you can buy the sold out resorts. Also watched the VGF promo video last night and I believe it was you who mentioned the pricing on the bottom. 31k - 55k. Now, I see other’s argument that you can buy DVC for $31k, however, I do think that putting that pricing on the bottom of a video that is solely marketing VGF is misleading if it comes in over $7k higher as the bottom price for new buyers. Granted it does have the asterisk that pricing is subject to change. Coming in that high is a gamble. In my experience Disney has always raised prices, much easier to raise than lower. Raising makes the product look hot, lowering signifies a problem. Maybe it won’t be $207, but $255 plus to me is over the top.


----------



## nuhusky123

Nabas said:


> I think the idea being bounced about is offering VGF2 at a higher price but then having deep discounts for larger contracts, like what’s happening at BLT at the moment.
> 
> BLT is still listed at $245pp but a contract of 1000 points includes an existing member discount of $48pp.
> 
> I still think $255pp is too high for Disney to sell in volume, but maybe a number somewhere in between $207pp and $255pp is what Disney has in mind.
> 
> Remember, the typical sold-out resort sells only about 1000 to 4000 points per month (VGF1 was selling about 2000 per month) while an actively marketed resort typically sells over 100,000 points per month.
> 
> But we are talking about the Disney under the control of Chapek, who has made it abundantly clear that he feels no obligation to follow the old rules.  Undoubtedly, those under him are being directed to be more “creative” when it comes to pricing.
> 
> With Chapek’s background in merchandising, setting the price high and then offering discounts might seem normal to him.
> 
> The point is, just because Disney did something in the past doesn’t mean the Chapek administration is going to follow the same playbook.



disney has every right to price gfv however they wish and they may not care about quickly selling gfv.

for me if the price is much higher than $207 on 150 points I will pass I’ll keep my current contract and either reduce the amount of wdw vacations I take or augment my spend at the swan reserve which is a fantastic hotel

dvc needs to convince me to buy, not the otherway around


----------



## Her Dotness

lowlight said:


> I only glanced at the point charts for my usual weeks at WDW and the points were the same for resort studio and deluxe studio.  Are they different at some times or the year?



I'm talking 2 resort studios going for less than 1-1br. I think 2 resort studios could actually be very much more appealing for the fact that you could put 10 bodies total in them for about the same points as a 1br in 2023, fewer points for lake view.



> I do agree it will be better for some people to have more room, but to pitch DVC as a second home is tough when you don’t have a microwave, sink and fridge.



Not for people who don't care that the resort studios haven't the kitchenette. With the DxDDP, that was DH and I. We rarely ate in the room, didn't use the microwave at all, only used the kitchen sink to wash reusable mugs.

My point is that a lot of us are projecting our own experience in DVC onto newcomers. WE want the kitchenette or full kitchen. A lot buying in may not or may not care the resort studio is like a regular room, might prefer it that way, in fact.


----------



## Einstein509

SusieQ93 said:


> Maybe it won’t be $207, but $255 plus to me is over the top.


It is, but Cheapskate is in charge.  AP prices are now $1200 without photopass and that's over the top for me.  They used to be $800 pre-COVID, pre-Cheapskate.


----------



## nuhusky123

SusieQ93 said:


> No way will I buy at $255. And these are the diehards on these boards. I love Disney but even I have my limits. $255 was a sold out price that isn’t even marketed to new buyers. I don’t think most people realize you can buy the sold out resorts. Also watched the VGF promo video last night and I believe it was you who mentioned the pricing on the bottom. 31k - 55k. Now, I see other’s argument that you can buy DVC for $31k, however, I do think that putting that pricing on the bottom of a video that is solely marketing VGF is misleading if it comes in over $7k higher as the bottom price for new buyers. Granted it does have the asterisk that pricing is subject to change. Coming in that high is a gamble. In my experience Disney has always raised prices, much easier to raise than lower. Raising makes the product look hot, lowering signifies a problem. Maybe it won’t be $207, but $255 plus to me is over the top.


I’d be tempted to file a false advertising complaint with the FTC if they come in above $207 for 150 points

they have the numbers on their marketing videos, the avg buyer has no clue when gfv expires so the argument the text is applicable to aul or riv is moot. Disney has a video being promoted to sell gfv and it has a minimum price on it. To me that means Disney has to offer a contract at $31,000


----------



## Chuck96

Doing some quick math, $31,500 divided by 150 (points) = $210.

My guess is that the base price will be higher than that, with short term incentives that drive it down to $210 if you purchase at least 150 points.  I believe it has to be priced cheaper than $255, but it doesn't necessarily have to be a lot cheaper.  I also think it has to be more than $207, to capture the flagship resort narrative.  I myself have no interest if it is above $220, but am ready to have the conversation with my wife if it is that or below.


----------



## Marionnette

nuhusky123 said:


> I’d be tempted to file a false advertising complaint with the FTC if they come in above $207 for 150 points
> 
> they have the numbers on their marketing videos, the avg buyer has no clue when gfv expires so the argument the text is applicable to aul or riv is moot. Disney has a video being promoted to sell gfv and it has a minimum price on it. To me that means Disney has to offer a contract at $31,000


I think that the language in the promo video stated that typical purchases range from $31K - $55K. As long as the price for a new owner falls in that range for a minimum purchase of 150 points, they've covered their butts.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

BWV Dreamin said:


> What is a CR DVC?


CR = Contemporary Resort


----------



## Sandisw

DVCsloth said:


> CBR near the main gondola seems to me that is a better location than Riviera.



The walk is not that bad from RIV to main station at CBR. And there are sections there that are probably just as far. I have actually seen some CBR guests in the sections closet to RIV take the Skyliner from there to CBR to transfer to HS.


----------



## Duckbug.Ducktales

Her Dotness said:


> I'm wondering if we current owners aren't blinded by experience and not seeing some definite advantages to the resort studios for more people than we think.
> 
> While 2023 points can certainly change in succeeding years, they'll be terrific for a family of 5 who find the current studio feeling cramped--book two resort studios at about the same points as a 1br. That's particularly so if Kid #6 comes along. In a short few years, they'll be too many for a 1br but room-to-grow in 2 resort studios.
> 
> Both some owners and prospective ones may actually prefer the resort studios. They don't eat in the room and don't want anything "kitcheny," may not use mini-fridge or coffeemaker at all. This IS the Grand with how many great restaurants?
> 
> There are other reasons two resort studios may appeal more than a 1br. In 2023, points cost alone plus more bodies in the space could be a biggie, IMO.


Maybe if the connecting rooms are a bookable guarantee--otherwise, one would worry that the kids will be on a different floor!


Her Dotness said:


> I'm talking 2 resort studios going for less than 1-1br. I think 2 resort studios could actually be very much more appealing for the fact that you could put 10 bodies total in them for about the same points as a 1br in 2023, fewer points for lake view.
> 
> 
> 
> Not for people who don't care that the resort studios haven't the kitchenette. With the DxDDP, that was DH and I. We rarely ate in the room, didn't use the microwave at all, only used the kitchen sink to wash reusable mugs.
> 
> My point is that a lot of us are projecting our own experience in DVC onto newcomers. WE want the kitchenette or full kitchen. A lot buying in may not or may not care the resort studio is like a regular room, might prefer it that way, in fact.


I don't care for the microwave or sink, but I would still prefer 1BR over 2 connecting studios, especially now that the murphy bed is there. But, again, if connecting studios can be guaranteed, that's a game changer--2 bathrooms! It would be like when we try to decide whether to squeeze into one or 2 cabins on a cruise ship. When I mention we'd have a 2nd bathroom, decision made lol


----------



## nuhusky123

Marionnette said:


> I think that the language in the promo video stated that typical purchases range from $31K - $55K. As long as the price for a new owner falls in that range for a minimum purchase of 150 points, they've covered their butts.


Correct must fall into range, but min price has to be $31k for 150 points


----------



## TCRAIG

nuhusky123 said:


> who on this board will buy at $255 or above? I won’t, that’s a crazy high price
> 
> $207 and I’ll buy but on 100 points $255 vs $207 is a delta of $5000. That’s a lot of money
> 
> if dvc lists gfv at $255 sales will be garbage


I would - I was planning on buying before the freeze and VGF2 announcement…but I’ll be adding to my VGF points so I’m only planning on @100 points…


----------



## Her Dotness

Duckbug.Ducktales said:


> Maybe if the connecting rooms are a bookable guarantee--otherwise, one would worry that the kids will be on a different floor!
> 
> I don't care for the microwave or sink, but I would still prefer 1BR over 2 connecting studios, especially now that the murphy bed is there. But, again, if connecting studios can be guaranteed, that's a game changer--2 bathrooms! It would be like when we try to decide whether to squeeze into one or 2 cabins on a cruise ship. When I mention we'd have a 2nd bathroom, decision made lol



Nevermind my brilliant idea for anyone but adult groups or families with older kids they'd trust in non-connecting rooms.

I found out on another DVC site that only 41 of the declared 101 villas are connecting.

And like everywhere else, no guarantees you'll get connecting.

Still, might be a good setup for a max-5 family that wants to add relatives or friends in a 2nd resort studio. They wouldn't necessarily need connecting studios and could save a wad of points.


----------



## DonMacGregor

Her Dotness said:


> I'm talking 2 resort studios going for less than 1-1br. I think 2 resort studios could actually be very much more appealing for the fact that you could put 10 bodies total in them for about the same points as a 1br in 2023, fewer points for lake view.
> 
> Not for people who don't care that the resort studios haven't the kitchenette. With the DxDDP, that was DH and I. We rarely ate in the room, didn't use the microwave at all, only used the kitchen sink to wash reusable mugs



I'm getting some serious cognitive dissonance trying to reconcile these two ideas. It seems to me that if, on the one hand, you're trying to save money/points on a stay at VGF by shoe-horning nearly a dozen people into what are inarguably two hotel rooms, then on the other hand you're not likely to be financially motivated to feed that horde VGF-priced food (even quick service) at every single meal.


----------



## Duckbug.Ducktales

Her Dotness said:


> I found out on another DVC site that only 41 of the declared 101 villas are connecting.


Darn. It would have been a game changer for sure!
We like to relax at the villa and play a board game, etc, with whatever family we have in tow so that;s why 1BRs work better for us.


----------



## Paul Stupin

Marionnette said:


> Except that DVC is not selling a new resort. They're selling more points at an existing resort that has been listed at a base price of $255/point for quite some time now. They won't be marketing just the "resort studios". They'll be flashing those 6 grand villas with their steam showers and media rooms to potential buyers. Guides will be sharing a points chart that includes the 1BR and 2BR options that buyers can reserve. Why do you think that VGF got a refurb ahead of schedule this past December?
> 
> Historically speaking, when was the last time you saw DVC reduce the base price of any of their existing resorts? Yes. They offer incentives that drop that out of pocket cost down, but they have never reduced the base price. I fully expect that VGF2 will open sales at the $255 base price with significant incentives that bring the actual cost closer to, but still slightly higher than, RIV.



Agreed, it’s not a new resort, but it’s no longer a sold out resort either, so I don’t think your logic works. You’re doing an apples to oranges comparison!  The $255 price was meant to discourage buyers and direct them elsewhere because their point pool was limited. Now they’ve got two million points to sell and if the new direct price is anywhere near $255 they wont’t get anywhere near the sales volume they need. And DVC is raising prices a different way with the 150 point new buyer minimum purchase, where they’ll have to fork over extra $1000s they didn’t have to before.

Looking at the current BLT incentives, and the recent Riviera and crazy good Aulani ones as well, the new DVC regime has certainly proved that they’ll price the product to sell. And there’s no world where a $207 price point is cheap. It might seem that way to us but it’s not. And, as you’ve pointed out, it’s not new, it’s an old, minimally converted hotel wing.

Anyway, maybe I’m wrong! But maybe you are too. We’ll know in a few weeks. One thing we can agree on is that when the prices for new DVC members are announced, they’ll never be any cheaper with incentives. But if they’re too pricey Riviera will be a better deal, and I think that’s where many of us would buy.


----------



## RoseGold

DonMacGregor said:


> I'm getting some serious cognitive dissonance trying to reconcile these two ideas. It seems to me that if, on the one hand you're trying to save money on a stay at VGF by shoe-horning nearly a dozen people into what are inarguably two hotel rooms, then on the other hand you're not likely to be financially motivated to feed that horde VGF-priced food (even quick service) at every single meal.



This is pretty standard on the cash hotel forums.  Cram people in the hotel rooms.  It's the natural outcome of such expensive hotel rooms and expensive tickets for fun things to do outside the hotel rooms -- and food everywhere at Disney.  Maybe not the way legacy Disney worked with reasonable tickets or APs, but that was then.


----------



## RamblinWreck

Her Dotness said:


> Nevermind my brilliant idea for anyone but adult groups or families with older kids they'd trust in non-connecting rooms.
> 
> I found out on another DVC site that only 41 of the declared 101 villas are connecting.
> 
> And like everywhere else, no guarantees you'll get connecting.
> 
> Still, might be a good setup for a max-5 family that wants to add relatives or friends in a 2nd resort studio. They wouldn't necessarily need connecting studios and could save a wad of points.


I'm really curious as to why there is an odd number of connecting rooms.

Do some rooms connect to more than one other room??


----------



## stwaldman

RamblinWreck said:


> I'm really curious as to why there is an odd number of connecting rooms.
> 
> Do some rooms connect to more than one other room??



EDIT I read the post as 41 connected (i.e. 82 total rooms). I must be wrong, rereading your post. Sorry!!


----------



## nuhusky123

confirmed March 3 for dvc members


----------



## Her Dotness

DonMacGregor said:


> I'm getting some serious cognitive dissonance trying to reconcile these two ideas. It seems to me that if, on the one hand, you're trying to save money/points on a stay at VGF by shoe-horning nearly a dozen people into what are inarguably two hotel rooms, then on the other hand you're not likely to be financially motivated to feed that horde VGF-priced food (even quick service) at every single meal.



Probably not for most people, most stays.

But, for a small family get-together of confirmed GF lovers anyway? That was us a mere 6 years ago--nowhere else at WDW measured up. We stayed at the nearby Hilton once. Preferred that GF grandness by far.

Who says the DVC member who booked the two studios isn't savvy enough to say, "I got you all your room for no cost to you. You buy our food, deal?"? 

DH and I were just thinking about some relatives we've been talking up DVC to. We'd book a VG1 studio and book them into "a lovely new" VGF2. (Yeah, we really don't get along well enough for same building. Two buildings? Terrific!)


----------



## Her Dotness

RamblinWreck said:


> I'm really curious as to why there is an odd number of connecting rooms.
> 
> Do some rooms connect to more than one other room??



It's 41 pairs that are connecting rooms, I think, if I read it right.

ETA: Yeah, 82 rooms that are connecting for 41 pairs. Hmmmmm, that's not such bad odds you'd get a connected pair at 11 mo., I'm thinking, with 101 declared rooms.

Well, wait a mo, declared rooms doesn't mean a bloc of rooms, so points-stays could be anywhere in BPC. Odds aren't that good after all.


----------



## DKZB

nuhusky123 said:


> confirmed March 3 for dvc members
> 
> View attachment 648123


Finally Confirmation of a date. Will we know pricing before the on-sale date?


----------



## CarolMN

DKZB said:


> Finally Confirmation of a date. Will we know pricing before the on-sale date?


Maybe, but I don't think they've told the guides (sales people) yet.  If they had, it would have already leaked.  I' m not expecting price info until 3/3 or just before.  JMHO. YMMV.


----------



## SusieQ93

Einstein509 said:


> It is, but Cheapskate is in charge.  AP prices are now $1200 without photopass and that's over the top for me.  They used to be $800 pre-COVID, pre-Cheapskate.


Yeah, but I don’t think you can really compare the demand for those two things. I think they honestly had to raise ticket and AP prices because of the demand. I think the #1 universal complaint about Disney parks is crowds. The only way to reduce crowds is up prices. I guess they could limit capacity further, but they are a business and it behooves them to charge what people will pay. I actually still think APs are a good price at $1200. If you have an AP and go once a month, that’s $100/day. A lot of APs go much more than 12 days per year. If you go to a play, ballet, concert, sporting event, etc. you get a few hours of entertainment (not a full day) and will probably pay the same price or more - maybe less if you buy bargain seats. I know this is an extremely unpopular opinion.

I’m not saying I don’t think the price will be $255 out of the goodness of their hearts. I don’t think it will be $255 because I don’t think they can sell the volume of points they need to sell at that price. If they can and I’m wrong, then I’m priced out and clearly the product isn’t for me. And that’s ok too. I want to buy a DVC contract, but I don’t need a DVC contract. There’s plenty of other accommodation options available.


----------



## Tbella

We will be staying at Boardwalk the week GFV2 go on sale. Do you think I need an appointment with a guide?


----------



## RoseGold

Tbella said:


> We will be staying at Boardwalk the week GFV2 go on sale. Do you think I need an appointment with a guide?



An appointment to what?  They have nothing new to show you.  If you want to buy, you can probably do that at the BW kiosk on the way to breakfast.


----------



## Tbella

RoseGold said:


> An appointment to what?  They have nothing new to show you.  If you want to buy, you can probably do that at the BW kiosk on the way to breakfast.



Plenty to talk about. Such as use years, splitting contracts, etc.


----------



## RoseGold

Tbella said:


> Plenty to talk about. Such as use years, splitting contracts, etc.



I would go to RIV if you want some actual service and have something to talk about.  The DVC sales offices are there, they just took over a bunch of rooms near the desk.  Easy to get there from Boardwalk.  I'd make an appointment.  Sometimes they pick you up, and they can validate your parking.

You could also do it on the phone in a few days, depending on where you are traveling from. In some states, they can't talk to you over the phone.


----------



## stwaldman

Tbella said:


> Plenty to talk about. Such as use years, splitting contracts, etc.


I reached out to my guide last time i was travelling to WDW (last December, so post covid), he effectively said they are converted to remote work for selling and that "in-person" visits are pretty much limited to the villa tours and kiosks that you don't need an appointment for. I'm sure if it means something to you and they smelled a sale, you can get ahold of somebody and they can walk through some info with you, but there is no appointment tour like there used to be and no shiny incentives for taking that tour like there used to be (unless they literally bring it back for this, which doesn't seem overly likely, but we've all be wrong before).

edited to acknowledge the above post, it sounds like there is more infrastructure at Riviera, I was staying on the monorail loop last time so my info was all via email.


----------



## SusieQ93

You could just use the chat feature on the DVC website to find out really quick. I used that before with no wait and it was helpful. I doubt you need an appointment. I feel like the people at those kiosks never have much to do and would be happy to help.


----------



## Chuck96

I'm not a DVC member, considering getting in with this.  If it is March 3rd for DVC, what's the date for the unwashed plebians?


----------



## RoseGold

I can't wait to hear what's up with these points on the ground!  If we are selling in March for a product that doesn't exist until, say August, it doesn't have any 2022 points for, say an April UY.  So, what's the play here?  Buy VGF1 points for the April UY?  But October UY to make sure you get 2022 points!?

Buy VGF1 points, April UY, with a VGF2 fixed week?


----------



## lowlight

I’m sure someone floated this idea somewhere in the thread, but what if this is a test balloon for future expansions?   DVC really saved Disney’s hide during COVID lockdowns, even if the money went to different divisions.  Their financial liability with DVC vs hotel side, I imagine, looks wildly different in a pandemic (or any other disaster) scenario.  They see how cheaply and profitably they can turn a hotel side building into a DVC villa building, now they are more covered in shutdowns and breakage still allows them to rent out for cash, it’s a win win for them unless I’m missing something.


----------



## SusieQ93

Chuck96 said:


> I'm not a DVC member, considering getting in with this.  If it is March 3rd for DVC, what's the date for the unwashed plebians?


In the same boat. All these members on here have me jealous. Like when can Disney take MY money  your post made me laugh.


----------



## CarolynFH

lowlight said:


> I’m sure someone floated this idea somewhere in the thread, but what if this is a test balloon for future expansions?   DVC really saved Disney’s hide during COVID lockdowns, even if the money went to different divisions.  Their financial liability with DVC vs hotel side, I imagine, looks wildly different in a pandemic (or any other disaster) scenario.  They see how cheaply and profitably they can turn a hotel side building into a DVC villa building, now they are more covered in shutdowns and breakage still allows them to rent out for cash, it’s a win win for them unless I’m missing something.


Disney figured that out long ago. NOT in chronological order: DVD (the developer and sales for DVC) converted 3 buildings at Poly and built bungalows for DVC. DVD converted half the hotel rooms at WL into DVC. They converted some AKL rooms in Jambo House to DVC villas. They tore down a wing at CR and a neighborhood at CBR and built new DVC buildings. Now the DVC owners pay the maintenance for all of those buildings and rooms, and Disney, as the single biggest owner (at any given time they own 2-5% of all points), can rent its own points as well as extra points it gets from owners exchanging into RCI/II/cruises/ABD, not to mention breakage. Yes, that idea has been floated around here for many years, and the only question is, what’s next?


----------



## lowlight

CarolynFH said:


> Disney figured that out long ago. NOT in chronological order: DVD (the developer and sales for DVC) converted 3 buildings at Poly and built bungalows for DVC. DVD converted half the hotel rooms at WL into DVC. They converted some AKL rooms in Jambo House to DVC villas. They tore down a wing at CR and a neighborhood at CBR and built new DVC buildings. Now the DVC owners pay the maintenance for all of those buildings and rooms, and Disney, as the single biggest owner (at any given time they own 2-5% of all points), can rent its own points as well as extra points it gets from owners exchanging into RCI/II/cruises/ABD, not to mention breakage. Yes, that idea has been floated around here for many years, and the only question is, what’s next?



That was the point I was trying to make, but I didn’t articulate it well.  They at least converted (as in tore down and redid) units in previous hotel takeover expansions, now they’ve gone the extra mile of “what if we don’t even need to tear it down and add a kitchenette, just a new coat of paint?”.  I think VGF2 IS what’s next and it saddens me. I think as owners we should have a say.


----------



## Her Dotness

SusieQ93 said:


> In the same boat. All these members on here have me jealous. Like when can Disney take MY money  your post made me laugh.



Oh, they'll gladly take your money ANY time.

We bought into VGF several years ago at sold-out resort price per point. I don't recall how much it was. It was VGF and no other for us.

Guide tried like crazy to get us to buy Aulani or Poly, the current sellers then. I know Aulani was one--fat chance we'd have bought that!

We had to wait for a few weeks to get as many points as we wanted.

All ya gotta do is insist, have the needed funds--and patience. ETA: And be that dumb!


----------



## CarolMN

Tbella said:


> We will be staying at Boardwalk the week GFV2 go on sale. Do you think I need an appointment with a guide?





RoseGold said:


> An appointment to what?  They have nothing new to show you.  If you want to buy, you can probably do that at the BW kiosk on the way to breakfast.





RoseGold said:


> I would go to RIV if you want some actual service and have something to talk about.  The DVC sales offices are there, they just took over a bunch of rooms near the desk.  Easy to get there from Boardwalk.  I'd make an appointment.  Sometimes they pick you up, and they can validate your parking.
> 
> You could also do it on the phone in a few days, depending on where you are traveling from. In some states, they can't talk to you over the phone.


Just visit the DVC location on the Boardwalk, just past the Big Rivet Grill. You can walk in. I'm sure they would be happy to sell you VGF or any other DVC resort.  I visited with them in December about VGF.  They had no info to share then, but were
very nice & personable.


----------



## pkrieger2287

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1494375315354882059


----------



## stwaldman

I'm sure others saw, but this is in the email that just went out, and based on the ending year is clearly specific to VGF:


Proposed Resort Studios at _The Villas at Disney’s Grand Floridian_ Resort & Spa are under construction and are projected to open Summer 2022. Actual room views will vary. Fixtures and furnishings are subject to change. All accommodations are subject to availability. Membership in _The Villas at Disney’s Grand Floridian_ Resort & Spa requires purchasing a deeded ownership interest that expires January 31, 2064, and typically ranges in price from $32,000 to $58,000 (subject to change). Not an offer where registration or other legal requirements for timeshare solicitation have not been met. For additional information, please visit the General Product, State, & Country Disclosures.​


----------



## hhisc16

stwaldman said:


> I'm sure others saw, but this is in the email that just went out, and based on the ending year is clearly specific to VGF:
> 
> ​
> 
> Proposed Resort Studios at _The Villas at Disney’s Grand Floridian_ Resort & Spa are under construction and are projected to open Summer 2022. Actual room views will vary. Fixtures and furnishings are subject to change. All accommodations are subject to availability. Membership in _The Villas at Disney’s Grand Floridian_ Resort & Spa requires purchasing a deeded ownership interest that expires January 31, 2064, and typically ranges in price from $32,000 to $58,000 (subject to change). Not an offer where registration or other legal requirements for timeshare solicitation have not been met. For additional information, please visit the General Product, State, & Country Disclosures.​


So 213 a point for 150 points? 32k


----------



## stwaldman

hhisc16 said:


> So 213 a point for 150 points?


based on the rest of this thread, I'm sure everybody will find their own way to interpret this into a price range of $207-$280 pp


----------



## nuhusky123

Ok so now it’s in email marketing. How does dvc not run afoul of the FTC if they sell this for $255 as some predict

I will concede $207 is not the price now given the email says $32,000. id say $214 is the number

edit it is very bad business to be promoting $31,000 in videos and a different price of $32,000 in an email

even the video in the email says $31,000


----------



## stwaldman

nuhusky123 said:


> Ok so now it’s in email marketing. How does dvc not run afoul of the FTC if they sell this for $255 as some predict
> 
> I will concede $207 is not the price now given the email says $32,000. id say $214 is the number
> 
> edit it is very bad business to be promoting $31,000 in videos and a different price of $32,000 in an email


to be entirely fair, you can argue that 32K is just 207 per point plus 500-1000 for closing costs, fees, and initial dues. We all still don't know anything, its just fun to chase our tails.


----------



## nuhusky123

stwaldman said:


> to be entirely fair, you can argue that 32K is just 207 per point plus 500-1000 for closing costs, fees, and initial dues. We all still don't know anything, its just fun to chase our tails.


Ah good point or $32,000 is a typo fat finger as $31,000 is everywhere


----------



## Marionnette

nuhusky123 said:


> Ok so now it’s in email marketing. How does dvc not run afoul of the FTC if they sell this for $255 as some predict
> 
> I will concede $207 is not the price now given the email says $32,000. id say $214 is the number


Because it still says "typically ranges in price" from $32K-$58K. That means the cost for a typical purchase will fall within that range. How do you define "typical"? It's a pretty nebulous term. The base price could be $255 with incentives that bring a 150-point contract down to $213 for a current member but not a new member. Or it could mean that the "typical" contract is around 125 points, which comes out to $31,875 @$255 per point.


----------



## lowlight

Marionnette said:


> Because it still says "typically ranges in price" from $32K-$58K. That means the cost for a typical purchase will fall within that range. How do you define "typical"? It's a pretty nebulous term. The base price could be $255 with incentives that bring a 150-point contract down to $213 for a current member but not a new member. Or it could mean that the "typical" contract is around 125 points, which comes out to $31,875 @$255 per point.


I agree it’s vague, but current members can buy a 50 point contract so if they were advertising current member price it would be much lower.


----------



## sndral

sndral said:


> Based on the email I got today urging me to lock in savings on a direct purchase before they disappear 3/2, I’m predicting that VGF2 pricing & terms will be revealed 3/3/22


& based on the email I got today looks like sales to existing members will start 3/3/22 - I tried finding details by following the email link, but only ended up entered in the sweepstakes 


nuhusky123 said:


> confirmed March 3 for dvc members
> 
> View attachment 648123


----------



## Bjaiken77

Haha…look at all the speculative math we have to do because they won’t just say the price.


----------



## JasonBG

I would not read into those $32k-$58k prices because they relate to sales ongoing on Aulani.


----------



## nuhusky123

Bjaiken77 said:


> Haha…look at all the speculative math we have to do because they won’t just say the price.


I’m about to break out the chalk board and channel Einstein


----------



## nuhusky123

JasonBG said:


> I would not read into those $32k-$58k prices because they relate to sales ongoing on Aulani.


Perhaps but Disney is attaching that message to marketing specific to gfv which typical person would take as specific to gfv. Disney is in illegal territory and subject to FTC fines if they are using deceptive marketing tactics or


----------



## tidefan

stwaldman said:


> I'm sure others saw, but this is in the email that just went out, and based on the ending year is clearly specific to VGF:
> 
> ​
> Proposed Resort Studios at _The Villas at Disney’s Grand Floridian_ Resort & Spa are under construction and are projected to open Summer 2022. Actual room views will vary. Fixtures and furnishings are subject to change. All accommodations are subject to availability. Membership in _The Villas at Disney’s Grand Floridian_ Resort & Spa requires purchasing a deeded ownership interest that expires January 31, 2064, and typically ranges in price from $32,000 to $58,000 (subject to change). Not an offer where registration or other legal requirements for timeshare solicitation have not been met. For additional information, please visit the General Product, State, & Country Disclosures.​


So, one thing here that I don't think people are considering is the time value of the points.  I paid $145/pt for 100 points when it went on sale to DVC members the first time.  So a total of 5,000 points over the life of the contract for a total of $14,500.  That works out to $2.90 per point over the life of the contract.

Fast forward to this announcement.  The association ends in Jan 2064, so that leaves 40 years on the contract.  Let's say pricing is $210 a point (just for argument's sake).  For 100 points, that's a total of 4,000 points over the life of the contract for a total of $21,000.  That works out to $5.25 per point over the life of the contract.


----------



## Marionnette

lowlight said:


> I agree it’s vague, but current members can buy a 50 point contract so if they were advertising current member price it would be much lower.


50 points may not be a "typical" contract size. They aren't advertising a price per point. They're advertising a range that represents what their statics show to be typical contract sizes.


----------



## Bjaiken77

Has anyone called their guide?  They present that as an option for getting more information.  It probably won’t help, but curious if anyone tried.


----------



## stwaldman

Bjaiken77 said:


> Has anyone called their guide?  They present that as an option for getting more information.  It probably won’t help, but curious if anyone tried.


a few folks have and have been told sales guides are still in the dark, although if you're asking "has anybody done it in the last 15 minutes", well, probz not


----------



## nuhusky123

Bjaiken77 said:


> Has anyone called their guide?  They present that as an option for getting more information.  It probably won’t help, but curious if anyone tried.


My guide called me today and we discussed March 3. They have no info willing to share on price

she Will be calling again March 3

I said over and over price is king and it needs to be low $200 for me to buy she kept saying she hopes so too as she wants to buy. Let’s see


----------



## Bjaiken77

stwaldman said:


> a few folks have and have been told sales guides are still in the dark, although if you're asking "has anybody done it in the last 15 minutes", well, probz not



That is what I expected.  It’s just so sad how they roll things out.  It seems like they choose to leave people in the dark as long as possible.  If they are starting to sell March 3, I refuse to believe they haven’t established a price.


----------



## SusieQ93

Bjaiken77 said:


> Haha…look at all the speculative math we have to do because they won’t just say the price.


But as someone said, what the heck will we all talk about once price is released?


----------



## lowlight

Bjaiken77 said:


> That is what I expected.  It’s just so sad how they roll things out.  It seems like they choose to leave people in the dark as long as possible.  If they are starting to sell March 3, I refuse to believe they haven’t established a price.


I think it’s because they don’t want to kill interest on BLT incentives until they are over.


----------



## Sandisw

I think the newest email supports that we are looking around $213/pt as baseprice for VGF as it mentions it in relation to the resort.

So, I am definitely feeling confident with my $215 guess from yesterday!


----------



## Bjaiken77

lowlight said:


> I think it’s because they don’t want to kill interest on BLT incentives until they are over.



Maybe, but it’s hard when you are talking about the dollar amounts.  I know that Disney is going to do what’s best for Disney, but a lot of us are seeing if this can be in our budget.


----------



## SusieQ93

Sandisw said:


> I think the newest email leads that we are looking around $213/pt as base
> price for VGF as it mentions it in relation to the resort.
> 
> So, I am definitely feeling confident with my $215 guess from yesterday


That sounds like a reasonable assumption. I hope you’re right! I’m in at that price. It sets VGF slightly above as the “crown jewel” in their words but not so high that they won’t be able to sell it. Could help boost Riviera sales too if a potential buyer isn’t married to either resort and wants to save a bit.


----------



## lowlight

My other question besides price is will the new rooms be available to current VGF owners immediately, or will there be some way they give new purchasers a head start to book?  It would feel crummy to buy 150 points and all new studios are booked immediately by existing members. This doesn’t happen with new resorts because there are no current owners, but I don’t know what happens with villa add ons.


----------



## nuhusky123

SusieQ93 said:


> But as someone said, what the heck will we all talk about once price is released?


That’s easy, we will debate vgf is either under or overpriced


----------



## Bjaiken77

Yeah, $213 puts it in range for us too!  It’s also going to be interesting to see incentives because that may determine the points we buy.  That’s why we are trying to save as much as possible.  We want to make sure we have enough money to buy the amount of points that makes most sense based on price break.


----------



## lowlight

nuhusky123 said:


> That’s easy, we will debate vgf is either under or overpriced



Or whether Riviera or VGF is really the crown jewel based on price. If they are exactly the same heads will explode.


----------



## nuhusky123

lowlight said:


> Or whether Riviera or VGF is really the crown jewel based on price. If they are exactly the same heads will explode.


Let’s start

@$214 dvc just made clear riv is inferior to gfv

too bad universal owns rights to dr seuss, Disney could make a killing selling sneetches shirts at gfv gift shop


----------



## Sandisw

lowlight said:


> My other question besides price is will the new rooms be available to current VGF owners immediately, or will there be some way they give new purchasers a head start to book?  It would feel crummy to buy 150 points and all new studios are booked immediately by existing members. This doesn’t happen with new resorts because there are no current owners, but I don’t know what happens with villa add ons.



I do not think they can’t legally hold back inventory for the new rooms from current VGF owners as it’s the same resort.  As part of the same association, all points are eligible for booking.

Now, new points deeded to the new rooms won’t be eligible for use anywhere until these rooms open.  But, once these rooms are set for booking, it will be everyone with points there.

Since summer is less than 7 months, they will most likely give allVgF owners some time to book before non resort owners for those dates.


----------



## stwaldman

nuhusky123 said:


> Let’s start
> 
> @$214 dvc just made clear riv is inferior to gfv
> 
> too bad universal owns rights to dr seuss, Disney could make a killing selling sneetches shirts at gfv gift shop


yes, but how many $pp is the 6 years fewer on the contract worth. That might be worth *TWO CROWN JEWELS*


----------



## Sandisw

nuhusky123 said:


> Let’s start
> 
> @$214 dvc just made clear riv is inferior to gfv
> 
> too bad universal owns rights to dr seuss, Disney could make a killing selling sneetches shirts at gfv gift shop



I am not sure if you have a $7/difference it can be seen as a huge statement…a $20/ or more difference might.

They may decide to offer better VGF incentives for nee buyers that puts them the same.

Since they just raised RIV to $207, it could be a short term difference…it may have been hard to raise RIV $13/pt as it has not been the typical norm,


----------



## nuhusky123

Sandisw said:


> I am not sure if you have a $7/difference it can be seen as a huge statement…a $20/ or more difference might.
> 
> They may decide to offer better VGF incentives for nee buyers that puts them the same.
> 
> Since they just raised RIV to $207, it could be a short term difference…it may have been hard to raise RIV $13/pt as it has not been the typical norm,


I’d love getter incentives


----------



## Her Dotness

Bjaiken77 said:


> It’s just so sad how they roll things out.  It seems like they choose to leave people in the dark as long as possible.  If they are starting to sell March 3, I refuse to believe they haven’t established a price.



They more than likely have a price. But, they're hardly going to tell us yet.

Nearly 2000 posts on this thread alone tells you how effective keeping thousands of people in suspense is--current owners and aspiring ones alike.


----------



## Sandisw

Pricing will not be released until March 3rd when sales start.  Confirmed from my guide.


----------



## Splashboat

*Edit: Sorry, found this earlier in the thread


----------



## Chuck96

Any notion, based on historical data (such as RIV), when VGF2 sales might open up to non-DVC members?  Two days later, seven days later, thirty days later?  Just trying to factor in my "wait" to have to make a decision?


----------



## dfan_welcomehomeall_19

I got an email with a video today. Looks like 3/3/22 is the date VGF will go on sale. called my guide they don’t know pricing or point min yet


----------



## SusieQ93

Chuck96 said:


> Any notion, based on historical data (such as RIV), when VGF2 sales might open up to non-DVC members?  Two days later, seven days later, thirty days later?  Just trying to factor in my "wait" to have to make a decision?


I asked this a bit ago, and I’m pretty sure the person who responded said it’s usually 30 days. Too many posts to scroll through at this point to look back, but it sounded to me like that’s what they’ve done in the past. Seems like kind of a long time though….


----------



## nuhusky123

I have an April use year, if I buy March 3 I should get 2021 points and the 2022 points come April 1, 2022 right?

timing on this couldn’t be better as long as they price it right


----------



## dfan_welcomehomeall_19

Sandisw said:


> Pricing will not be released until March 3rd when sales start.  Confirmed from my guide.


The only tea leaf I saw (and this is pure speculation) was at the bottom of the promo video….it said “typically ranges from $31000-$55000” based on 150 new direct min the floor could be $207 (31000 divided by 150) BUT that is assuming 150 points. That probably doesn’t tell us much of anything because I don’t think anyone was expecting it to be less than AUL or RIV


----------



## Sandisw

nuhusky123 said:


> I have an April use year, if I buy March 3 I should get 2021 points and the 2022 points come April 1, 2022 right?
> 
> timing on this couldn’t be better as long as they price it right



Assuming they offer April UY with 2021 points.  When RIV went on sale in April 2019, Feb UY was excluded from 2019 points as the resort opened in December…but I think that had more to do with timing.

In this case, I don’t think we will see any UY excluded.


----------



## RoseGold

SusieQ93 said:


> But as someone said, what the heck will we all talk about once price is released?



We can talk about the real crown jewel of the Polynesian, the microwaves.


----------



## AGP

Can someone confirm how many rooms are connecting of the 200?  I thought that was in here somewhere but this thread has gotten really long and I can’t find it.  I just saw someone say on a different thread that it is only 82 of the 200 (well they said 41 of the first 100 rooms declared)…. Is that right? I thought it was a higher percentage of the total…


----------



## CarolynFH

AGP said:


> Can someone confirm how many rooms are connecting of the 200?  I thought that was in here somewhere but this thread has gotten really long and I can’t find it.  I just saw someone say on a different thread that it is only 82 of the 200 (well they said 41 of the first 100 rooms declared)…. Is that right? I thought it was a higher percentage of the total…


Of the 101 rooms declared, 82 have connecting doors, making 41 pairs of studios in that 101 rooms. https://www.dvcnews.com/resorts/gra...oridian-units-declared-into-condo-association


----------



## AGP

CarolynFH said:


> Of the 101 rooms declared, 82 have connecting doors, making 41 pairs of studios in that 101 rooms. https://www.dvcnews.com/resorts/gra...oridian-units-declared-into-condo-association


Ok great thank you- that makes more sense


----------



## MurphyL

I received an email from Disney today regarding Grand Floridian.  The fine print specifies the typical cost range.  The lower end of the range at 150 points(minimum buy in for new blue cards) equals approximately $213 per point without discounts. I asked my guide and he couldn’t provide any more information.  I have attached a copy of the image.  Hopefully there will be some discounts. That is only a $6 bump. I am considering buying  a fixed week contract


----------



## nuhusky123

I have a feeling dvc member incentives for a limited period are going to be pretty decent. Ground on no data, just a gut feeling dvc wants to make a splash with gfv


----------



## smmora

MurphyL said:


> I received an email from Disney today regarding Grand Floridian.  The fine print specifies the typical cost range.  The lower end of the range at 150 points(minimum buy in for new blue cards) equals approximately $213 per point without discounts. I asked my guide and he couldn’t provide any more information.  I have attached a copy of the image.  Hopefully there will be some discounts. That is only a $6 bump. I am considering buying  a fixed week contract



Haven't the $31k amount advertisements been since the price was $201
201 * 150 = 30,150 + plus closing costs

207 * 150 = 31,150 + plus closing costs


----------



## nuhusky123

smmora said:


> Haven't the $31k amount advertisements been since the price was $201
> 201 * 150 = 30,150 + plus closing costs
> 
> 207 * 150 = 31,150 + plus closing costs


No $31k crept into videos after $207 was announced for riv/aul


----------



## jbreen2010

With the amount of people on this thread ready to buy at $213 (if that was the imputed price from todays March 3rd announcement), I would think Disney releases at $225. Heck they might not have even finalized pricing yet ans are waiting to read these boards to see how thirsty people are! LOL. Would be spectacular if it was like $225 but only $200 for current members to add on!


----------



## DVCsloth

I still think it will be the same as Riviera with some decent current member incentives. I also wouldn't be surprised if they made it more expensive as well.
Love DVC and love VGF, but we'll probably increase our CCV points instead of VGF because of the studio only VGF2. Or I'll hold onto the cash and wait and see how VGF2 ends up.
No hurry for me especially since I have a March use year.


----------



## nuhusky123

jbreen2010 said:


> With the amount of people on this thread ready to buy at $213 (if that was the imputed price from todays March 3rd announcement), I would think Disney releases at $225. Heck they might not have even finalized pricing yet ans are waiting to read these boards to see how thirsty people are! LOL. Would be spectacular if it was like $225 but only $200 for current members to add on!


We are all a vocal but very small minority. We are not who will buy 2,000,000 points, to Sell out they need to appeal to the non dvc members who know nothing about dvc

we may pick up a few points but whatever price dvc sets has to appeal to the avg Disney park goer and be tantalizing enough to capture a sale. every Additional $1,000 they add to the price decreases the pool of potential buyers


----------



## Sandisw

jbreen2010 said:


> With the amount of people on this thread ready to buy at $213 (if that was the imputed price from todays March 3rd announcement), I would think Disney releases at $225. Heck they might not have even finalized pricing yet ans are waiting to read these boards to see how thirsty people are! LOL. Would be spectacular if it was like $225 but only $200 for current members to add on!



My guide is already aware that price determines number of points I will be getting.

Come in close to RIV and it will be 80 to 100.  Come higher and in the $220s, then max is 50…

Come at $255 and we wont be in any rush to get more points.


----------



## nuhusky123

Sandisw said:


> My guide is already aware that price determines number of points I will be getting.
> 
> Come in close to RIV and it will be 80 to 100.  Come higher and in the $220s, then max is 50…
> 
> Come at $255 and we wont be in any rush to get more points.


I told my guide something similar. although if price is north of $220 I’ll probably just pass and augment stays at swan reserve 

told her cash is ready and I’ll buy March 3 first thing prices announced if we are talking low $200s


----------



## SusieQ93

Sandisw said:


> My guide is already aware that price determines number of points I will be getting.
> 
> Come in close to RIV and it will be 80 to 100.  Come higher and in the $220s, then max is 50…
> 
> Come at $255 and we wont be in any rush to get more points.


Price will definitely be a factor for me with number of points. I want 175 and will buy that many if it is $207. I will buy at up to 220, but fewer points depending on price. Above $220, I’m out.


----------



## Littlelulu01

A higher price than Riviera or Aulani makes no sense unless they really want to capitalize on the Rivera resale restrictions-  “pay x $ more and no resale restrictions?”  I don’t think they want to market gfv as the work around resale value or as a much nicer and desirable place to stay thus worth more $ per point.   Point chart difference is negligible especially when you factor gfv lower mf.  Cash room prices are also similar.   Seems silly enough to be offered $207 pp for the same contract I could have purchased several use years ago for $145.
As a current dvc owner, I’m only in if they offer me a “pre sale” price discount like they used to do. If I remember correctly they offered up poly and gfv for a week or so at something like $10 less per point to existing members.   I’ll wait for Disneyland hotel before I add on if they want more than Riv. 
I figure the price paid for not purchasing a “new” “old” gfv contract is theme park view studio at 7 months as the only rooms available.


----------



## 808blessing

Where do you think they came up with their max figure?  55k/150= 366 pp
DLT? More average points? Larger rooms? Peak season?


----------



## DVCRad

808blessing said:


> Where do you think they came up with their max figure?  55k/150= 366 pp
> DLT? More average points? Larger rooms? Peak season?


More points than 150.


----------



## SusieQ93

DVCRad said:


> More points than 150.


Yep. But I do think it’s weird they put it to max at $55k. I literally just watched the long promotional video to enter the sweepstakes last night and it showed 4,000 pts as the max. 55k/207 = 265. So I don’t really get what the $55k represents. Even Grand Californian direct for 150 pts is $46,500.


----------



## KimMcGowan

I do not really love GF.  I also have no plans to add any points when they go on sale. (One wonders why in the world I have read every page of this thread then ). However, I think in the current climate (possible recession be damned) there is little chance that Bob allows the price to be close to Riv.  He is ALL about getting EVERY dollar. I am not going to be surprised at all if the price is exactly in the middle of Riv. and the current sold out price, so $231, right?  Then incentives pull it down around $220 (which is what people are saying they will pay). I could be totally off base…


----------



## KimMcGowan

All of that to say that I have a bad feeling that a lot of people are going to be disappointed if they plan on the lower 200’s.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

I have no problem sticking with the guess of it being priced the same base as Riviera with perhaps a little greater discount to start to kick up the sales volume and then settling in to be the similar or identical discounts too.  Historically it is what happens and DVC places far less "it's better than" or "it's the flagship" than buyers and owners do.   They just want to sell.  Also I think the new BLT promotion supports the probability of this pricing.


----------



## KimMcGowan

But Chapekonomics do not seem to be following any rules of the past.


----------



## DisneyMom_3

I saw where someone commented on FB - 
“Heard from a cast member from
Dvc today $207 per point”
Let’s hope they actually heard accurate information.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

KimMcGowan said:


> But Chapekonomics do not seem to be following any rules of the past.



That would just mean they bump up Riviera if they want to sell VGF at a higher price than they currently are selling.  I don't think that will happen immediately though.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

Also the Chapek hand is already in this on the side he's better known for - cutting.  They are going to offer for sale hotel rooms in a 30+ year old building that they are doing a refurb of and selling it for a little over 40 years vs the recent resort length of 50 years.   It may be their biggest profit earner to date.


----------



## SusieQ93

Chuck96 said:


> Any notion, based on historical data (such as RIV), when VGF2 sales might open up to non-DVC members?  Two days later, seven days later, thirty days later?  Just trying to factor in my "wait" to have to make a decision?


FYI someone on FB told me that they got a call from DVC today and were told March 31st for non owners. A few people told me about 30 days, so that seems in line with what has been done in the past…


----------



## zavandor

tjkraz said:


> There's no question that the resale restrictions have cost DVC sales from a certain type of informed buyer. The question is whether those same rules have allowed DVC to add sales in other areas. Specifically, has the ability to say "you cannot stay at all 15 resorts unless you buy direct from us" become a net positive for sales?
> 
> There seems to be a perception that the direct purchase restriction is universally bad for sales. DVC doesn't benefit from enacting policies which blindly punish those who buy resale and drive down aftermarket values. Informed buyers are likely to be more sensitive to resale pricing. Relatively uneducated buyers who tour and consider buying while at WDW will only see value in the idea that a direct purchase is necessary to maximize program flexibility.
> 
> *IF* the policy is working as intended, there are more people choosing to buy direct because of the resort access + perks than there are people who run scared from the impact on resale value. And if it's not returning the benefits intended, DVC can always change course.



What I think that resale restrictions are currently not doing a lot to increase sales, currently only one resort cannot be booked with a resale contract and it's in WDW, with many other options. But DVC is in this long term. The new DL tower will start changing things quite a bit, because VGC is so small and so difficult to book at 7 months. And of course, when 2042 draws nearer, so many beloved resorts will get out of reach, at that point buying direct just for the flexibility will have a huge impact.
Long story short, I think at the moment it's hurting sales (maybe less than we think, in our well informed bubble), but that doesn't worry DVC, in the long term it'll be a big boost.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

DVCsloth said:


> I still think it will be the same as Riviera with some decent current member incentives. I also wouldn't be surprised if they made it more expensive as well.
> Love DVC and love VGF, but we'll probably increase our CCV points instead of VGF because of the studio only VGF2. Or I'll hold onto the cash and wait and see how VGF2 ends up.
> No hurry for me especially since I have a March use year.


Bang for your buck will go a lot further at CCV. We will never see those point charts again!


----------



## Bjaiken77

I know this is a hypothetical, but that hasn’t stopped us from guessing before.  Do you think it’s possible VGF drops below $200/pp with incentives?  I know that likely means Riviera gets some good incentives too, but that doesn’t seem outside the realm of possibility.


----------



## davidl81

Bjaiken77 said:


> I know this is a hypothetical, but that hasn’t stopped us from guessing before.  Do you think it’s possible VGF drops below $200/pp with incentives?  I know that likely means Riviera gets some good incentives too, but that doesn’t seem outside the realm of possibility.


I honestly think it is more likely than not that pre-sale offers will get below $200pp at a certain purchase volume level.


----------



## nuhusky123

Bjaiken77 said:


> I know this is a hypothetical, but that hasn’t stopped us from guessing before.  Do you think it’s possible VGF drops below $200/pp with incentives?  I know that likely means Riviera gets some good incentives too, but that doesn’t seem outside the realm of possibility.


I don’t see why not. I’m personally hoping for some pretty darn good dvc member incentives for the first 30 days

my guide was all excited and something about the call made me feel optimistic about the price given I was clear what the price has to be for me to buy in


----------



## Kaufeegurl

We have decided to purchase *if prices are in line (or slightly higher) with RIV* and not the former sold out price. We own at BCV and SSR, August UY. We are planning on purchasing 2 contracts, which we have never done before. I think it's better to have 2 smaller contracts than one larger one.

1. Will we be able to purchase August UY in March? And if we can't, with different UY, do all your contracts show up in the same DVC account umbrella or will you have a separate login?

2. We want (2) 150 point contracts. Will we be able to use the 300 points together for one booking (as if you have one 300 point contract)?

3. What happens to booking capability for us if we add adult DD to one contract with us, and adult DS with us on the second contract? Assuming yes to #2 above, would we still be able to book 300 points together if the deed titles differ as long as we are on both deeds? I know each child will only be able to see and manage the contract with their deeded name.

Help oh wise veterans!


----------



## dfan_welcomehomeall_19

I like to add on another 30-35 points at VGF. Wondering everyone’s thoughts on minimums…since part of existing condo assoc you think it will be 25 min like most resorts or 50 like RIV? I don’t think the condo assoc status would impact but curious your thoughts. Thanks!


----------



## RoseGold

Kaufeegurl said:


> What happens to booking capability for us if we add adult DD to one contract with us, and adult DS with us on the second contract? Assuming yes to #2 above, would we still be able to book 300 points together if the deed titles differ as long as we are on both deeds? I know each child will only be able to see and manage the contract with their deeded name.



You can't just "add" people to a contract.  You are buying joint real estate with another adult.  There are a lot of reasons not to do this.  Divorce, bankruptcy, lawsuits, I can keep going.  I would never do this with an adult I was not married to.  

If you hold title as different people or configurations of people they are different membership numbers.  There have been some stories of DVC correcting Mickey Mouse and Mickey A. Mouse.  But Mickey Mouse and Goofy will always be a different member number than Mickey and Minnie.  Different member numbers are like different people as far as DVC is concerned.

The other option is to buy as something like an LLC or trust.  Lots of people do this as part of their estate planning.  If this is part of your estate plan, maybe smart to get local legal advice and do this right from the jump.


----------



## Bjaiken77

That’s why I’m so curious about the price and incentives.  If it’s just a good base price with low incentives, we’ll buy what we need.  If it has good incentives, we might spend more than we are comfortable with and just eat soup and bread the rest of the year.

That’s why I need to know.  I need to know if I should be stocking up on Spaghetti-Os or not.


----------



## RoseGold

dfan_welcomehomeall_19 said:


> I like to add on another 30-35 points at VGF. Wondering everyone’s thoughts on minimums…since part of existing condo assoc you think it will be 25 min like most resorts or 50 like RIV?



The VGF chart is higher than RIV.  25 points doesn't get you anywhere.  IMO, it has to be at least 50, maybe more.


----------



## Sandisw

SusieQ93 said:


> Yep. But I do think it’s weird they put it to max at $55k. I literally just watched the long promotional video to enter the sweepstakes last night and it showed 4,000 pts as the max. 55k/207 = 265. So I don’t really get what the $55k represents. Even Grand Californian direct for 150 pts is $46,500.



It says the typical purchase ranges...to me, that means the average size contract that people are buying...they put the minimum, but that 265 may be more the average of what people who are new end up purchasing...

At least that is how I view it....


----------



## dfan_welcomehomeall_19

RoseGold said:


> The VGF chart is higher than RIV.  25 points doesn't get you anywhere.  IMO, it has to be at least 50, maybe more.


Thanks for the insight. Sorry should have clarified…It’s an add on to 100 VGF existing contract. That’s why I only want another night or 2 in a studio.


----------



## Sandisw

Bjaiken77 said:


> I know this is a hypothetical, but that hasn’t stopped us from guessing before.  Do you think it’s possible VGF drops below $200/pp with incentives?  I know that likely means Riviera gets some good incentives too, but that doesn’t seem outside the realm of possibility.



Yes, I do.  They are doing it with BLT and to do that, an MK area resort, leads me to believe the initial sales for VGF will allow for something similar, even if it is a short term sale.


----------



## Sandisw

dfan_welcomehomeall_19 said:


> Thanks for the insight. Sorry should have clarified…It’s an add on to 100 VGF existing contract. That’s why I only want another night or 2 in a studio.



I think they will make it 50 like RIV and CCV.  I see this is as the new way forward for them with sales.


----------



## dfan_welcomehomeall_19

Sandisw said:


> I think they will make it 50 like RIV and CCV.  I see this is as the new way forward for them with sales.


I agree and that is what I’m afraid of! PP will dictate if I add on or not. Probably not comfortable at 255 * 50 if thats what it ends up being but the other side is it’s always better to have more than less and could always rent out unused pts I guess


----------



## Kaufeegurl

RoseGold said:


> You can't just "add" people to a contract.  You are buying joint real estate with another adult.  There are a lot of reasons not to do this.  Divorce, bankruptcy, lawsuits, I can keep going.  I would never do this with an adult I was not married to.
> 
> If you hold title as different people or configurations of people they are different membership numbers.  There have been some stories of DVC correcting Mickey Mouse and Mickey A. Mouse.  But Mickey Mouse and Goofy will always be a different member number than Mickey and Minnie.  Different member numbers are like different people as far as DVC is concerned.
> 
> The other option is to buy as something like an LLC or trust.  Lots of people do this as part of their estate planning.  If this is part of your estate plan, maybe smart to get local legal advice and do this right from the jump.


Thank you for your input! We are not 'adding' people to a contract - we are *choosing* to title a DVC purchase that fits our present and future needs. You may choose not to do it, but there are a variety of reasons others may. We are well aware of the legal ramifications of contract ownership beyond ourselves. We are also well-versed in estate planning and trusts.  Those opinions were not part of my questions. My questions related to UY and how 2 differently titled contracts for the same resort can affect booking capability.


----------



## tjkraz

SusieQ93 said:


> Yep. But I do think it’s weird they put it to max at $55k. I literally just watched the long promotional video to enter the sweepstakes last night and it showed 4,000 pts as the max. 55k/207 = 265. So I don’t really get what the $55k represents. Even Grand Californian direct for 150 pts is $46,500.



265 points is very close to the average DVC point ownership level. (It's actually right around 275.)


----------



## SusieQ93

tjkraz said:


> 265 points is very close to the average DVC point ownership level. (It's actually right around 275.)


Makes sense! I missed the wording of “typical” contract.


----------



## RamblinWreck

lowlight said:


> That was the point I was trying to make, but I didn’t articulate it well.  They at least converted (as in tore down and redid) units in previous hotel takeover expansions, now they’ve gone the extra mile of “what if we don’t even need to tear it down and add a kitchenette, just a new coat of paint?”.  I think VGF2 IS what’s next and it saddens me. I think as owners we should have a say.


I think there is a market for DVC that more closely resembles traditional hotel rooms.

If this were 5-10 years ago, I would have even preferred it. Now that I have little kids, I need something more. 

But as they get a little bigger, the idea of connecting hotel rooms actually sounds pretty good.


----------



## Marionnette

Kaufeegurl said:


> Thank you for your input! We are not 'adding' people to a contract - we are *choosing* to title a DVC purchase that fits our present and future needs. You may choose not to do it, but there are a variety of reasons others may. We are well aware of the legal ramifications of contract ownership beyond ourselves. We are also well-versed in estate planning and trusts.  Those opinions were not part of my questions. My questions related to UY and how 2 differently titled contracts for the same resort can affect booking capability.


Two differently titled contracts will have 2 different memberships. As such, the only way to combine points in order to make a reservation is to call Member Services and transfer points from Membership A to Membership B. There is no way to do this online.


----------



## CarolMN

Kaufeegurl said:


> My questions related to UY and how 2 differently titled contracts for the same resort can affect booking capability.


You will have two different memberships.  To combine points for the same vacation, you will need to book some nights with Contract 1 and the rest with Contract 2 and have MS link them, or you will have to transfer points from one membership to the other.  That will require a call to MS.  AFAIK, using transferred points during the priority booking period requires a call to MS.  (I assume he points are for the same resort and if not, of course, you cannot use non-home resort points to book a hoe resort during the prioirty period.

The only way to combine points from two contracts to pay for the same night is to do it with transferred points.

FWIW, I would not do this UNLESS you use the contracts separately and seldom, if ever,  for the same vacation.  In addition to the booking issues, Members will multiple memberships (as opposed to one membership with a Master & add-on contract both purchased directly), report far more problems with the website. (That's not fair/right, but it is, what it is, right now) With current MS hold times and the plethora of new CMs, it's just not worth it.  But that's JMHO.  YMMV.


----------



## DonMacGregor

Kaufeegurl said:


> Thank you for your input! We are not 'adding' people to a contract - we are *choosing* to title a DVC purchase that fits our present and future needs. You may choose not to do it, but there are a variety of reasons others may. We are well aware of the legal ramifications of contract ownership beyond ourselves. We are also well-versed in estate planning and trusts.  Those opinions were not part of my questions. My questions related to UY and how 2 differently titled contracts for the same resort can affect booking capability.


Sometimes you get the answer you're looking for, other times you get the "answer" someone wants to give.


----------



## HickoryDickory

Kaufeegurl said:


> Thank you for your input! We are not 'adding' people to a contract - we are *choosing* to title a DVC purchase that fits our present and future needs. You may choose not to do it, but there are a variety of reasons others may. We are well aware of the legal ramifications of contract ownership beyond ourselves. We are also well-versed in estate planning and trusts.  Those opinions were not part of my questions. My questions related to UY and how 2 differently titled contracts for the same resort can affect booking capability.



Even if the same resort and UY, if the contracts are titled differently (as it would be in your case with different owners listed) it's considered an entirely separate membership with different membership numbers and booking screens. So you would have 3 different membership numbers; The first number associated with your two current contracts, the second for VGF with DD, and a third for VGF with DS. Each of your kids would only have one membership number, the one associated with the contract in which they are listed as an owner. 

You will be able to add the additional membership numbers to your current account, but you need to toggle back and forth between the three different memberships, or even just between the two VGF memberships. You won't be able to pool the points between any 2 or 3 of the memberships at either 11 or 7 months like you currently can with your BCV and SSR at 7 months. You'll have to get creative with using the memberships separately. A few ways this can be done is you could alternate years you're using each VGF contract with banking/borrowing to have 300 points on one contract for easier booking, transfer points between 2 of your memberships, or book half your stay with one contract and book the second half with the other contract.


----------



## RoseGold

Kaufeegurl said:


> My questions related to UY and how 2 differently titled contracts for the same resort can affect booking capability.



Well, the trust is the solution to this.  The trust/LLC can be one membership number with any number of contracts as far as Disney is concerned (keep the same UY), and the backend ownership is done with legal advice and is much more flexible than deeds with the comptroller.  This is also more flexible as to who gets Blue Card benefits.   This is how I would structure my contracts if I were buying direct.  Who Disney considers an owner and who is an owner are not necessarily the same thing.


----------



## bobbiwoz

Do we have the price yet?


----------



## nuhusky123

bobbiwoz said:


> Do we have the price yet?


no


----------



## Sandisw

bobbiwoz said:


> Do we have the price yet?



Nope.  And my guide told me it will not be shared until sales start March 3rd.


----------



## bobbiwoz

Sandisw said:


> Nope.  And my guide told me it will not be shared until sales start March 3rd.





nuhusky123 said:


> no


Thank you.


----------



## MICKIMINI




----------



## UrsulaWantsYourSoul

bobbiwoz said:


> Do we have the price yet?


Yes - and the answer is: you're priceless, @bobbiwoz !
Appreciate the ever-knowledgeable and entertaining members of disboards.


----------



## HappyDisneyWife

MICKIMINI said:


>


Oh man… this is going to be a looong 2 weeks  

Like everyone else here, I’ve got my “if” scenarios: IF incentives are really good (& combinable with RIV)- I would like to buy at both resorts, so that I can get ditch my current lonely RIV UY & be left with just the 2 UY that I want. If they are just good, I will buy at VGF only. If priced too high- I’ll just wait for the perfect resale.

SHOW US THE NUMBERS ALREADY!!!!! 

_& I feel that I’m in the minority here, but if DVC is going to try to actively sell 2 resorts at/near the same price and they have a 10-yr different shelf life, the 40-yr resort would be a hard sell to your average buyer. VGF has got to be under RIV (whether by incentives or what have you) to make it palatable to your average vacationer looking at DVC, IMO… we’ll see!_


----------



## nuhusky123

HappyDisneyWife said:


> Oh man… this is going to be a looong 2 weeks
> 
> Like everyone else here, I’ve got my “if” scenarios: IF incentives are really good (& combinable with RIV)- I would like to buy at both resorts, so that I can get ditch my current lonely RIV UY & be left with just the 2 UY that I want. If they are just good, I will buy at VGF only. If priced too high- I’ll just wait for the perfect resale.
> 
> SHOW US THE NUMBERS ALREADY!!!!!
> 
> _& I feel that I’m in the minority here, but if DVC is going to try to actively sell 2 resorts at/near the same price and they have a 10-yr different shelf life, the 40-yr resort would be a hard sell to your average buyer. VGF has got to be under RIV (whether by incentives or what have you) to make it palatable to your average vacationer looking at DVC, IMO… we’ll see!_


This is why I think price will be the same as riv

riv is longer but as we keep hearing gfv is the premier crown jewel. the shorter timeframe offsets location creating an opportunity for sales

i kind of view this as the pitch by dvc

for $207 you can get riv and more ownership years, or for $207 you can get walking distance to mk and our best resort but shorter ownership


----------



## RamblinWreck

nuhusky123 said:


> This is why I think price will be the same as riv
> 
> riv is longer but as we keep hearing gfv is the premier crown jewel. the shorter timeframe offsets location creating an opportunity for sales
> 
> i kind of view this as the pitch by dvc
> 
> for $207 you can get riv and more ownership years, or for $207 you can get walking distance to mk and our best resort but shorter ownership


My hunch is you've pretty much nailed it here. We may see incentives come and go that make one lower than the other for a time, but I think you're spot on.


----------



## Her Dotness

I think RIV's newness will be a big advantage. New, sleek, European flair, that wild walkway tunnel going under the building--those are exciting!

That'd be my push if selling the two.


----------



## Bjaiken77

I don’t think it’s crazy for VGF and RIV to be the same price.  I bought RIV knowing VGF was going to be selling soon.  I love RIV.  Obviously, I like VGF, as I’m looking to add points there, too.  For me, the big drawback to RIV are the resale restrictions. 

But I think to price them the same with the assumption that they are going to be used over the lifetime of the contract is fair.  I probably even give the nod to RIV because of the additional years.  This is actually a pro-VGF statement, as I hope the prices for a resort I also want to buy are comparable.


----------



## MICKIMINI

Well, since DVC will probably take the two 40 point AKV's in ROFR we need a plan B...got an eye roll last night from DH when I mentioned GFV2.  Just got a check today for a small, stripped OKW we flipped for a nice, little profit burning a hole in my pocket...

Great!  I can celebrate my 103th birthday at GFV2!


----------



## Bjaiken77

MICKIMINI said:


> Well, since DVC will probably take the two 40 point AKV's in ROFR we need a plan B...got an eye roll last night from DH when I mentioned GFV2.  Just got a check today for a small, stripped OKW we flipped for a nice, little profit burning a hole in my pocket...
> 
> Great!  I can celebrate my 103th birthday at GFV2!


Thats the thing - based on our age, the 2060-2070 resorts are pretty appealing to us.  I’d like to sell our SSR points and buy Poly, BLT, or CCV just to put all our contracts in that range, but if it doesn’t happen, the SSR end date still gives us a lot of years.


----------



## DVCsloth

BWV Dreamin said:


> Bang for your buck will go a lot further at CCV. We will never see those point charts again!


Agree, the only thing they did was add the Cabins making the Studios harder to book, but we usually book the 1br's.


----------



## fumanchu2488

If you purchase GFV do you think we will get 2021 UY points like we would if we purchased RIV?


----------



## RoseGold

fumanchu2488 said:


> If you purchase GFV do you think we will get 2021 UY points like we would if we purchased RIV?



DVC hasn’t been selling VGF directly in a long time, and they keep ROFR and foreclosing. They have at least some VGF1 points, which will have points.

It’s interesting to think about what 2021 points they will sell for VGF2.  Maybe limiting to something like October UY?  No one knows yet!


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

It’s hard for me to imagine that for existing owners you wouldn’t just get whatever points your current UY entitles you too. 

For new owners I could see them pushing February to start.


----------



## macman123

fumanchu2488 said:


> If you purchase GFV do you think we will get 2021 UY points like we would if we purchased RIV?



Of course - you would have points that are current assuming your UY isn't after the date you buy.


----------



## Sandisw

fumanchu2488 said:


> If you purchase GFV do you think we will get 2021 UY points like we would if we purchased RIV?



I think the only UY in question at this point is April UY.  The rest should get 2021 points with a summer opening and IMO, I think they will get them as well.

The only UY left out of RIV for 2019 points was Feb and that was a new resort

VGF points already exist so there is no reason not to include all UY.  They have points already from the current building and can’t see why the new building would not have all UYs available.

The thing we don’t know yet is which points will be for sale to start. Points deeded to the new building wont be eligible for any bookings until the new rooms open for occupancy.

Points deeded to the current building won’t be restricted in that way.


----------



## Wedgeout

Just a thought. Didn’t Aulani recently offer a rebate for first year point allotment? Couldn’t they initially offer the new VGF points to owners for every UY match, but starting with just 2022 UY points, reducing the purchase price even lower for all?


----------



## nuhusky123

Sandisw said:


> I think the only UY in question at this point is April UY.  The rest should get 2021 points with a summer opening and IMO, I think they will get them as well.
> 
> The only UY left out of RIV for 2019 points was Feb and that was a new resort
> 
> VGF points already exist so there is no reason not to include all UY.  They have points already from the current building and can’t see why the new building would not have all UYs available.
> 
> The thing we don’t know yet is which points will be for sale to start. Points deeded to the new building wont be eligible for any bookings until the new rooms open for occupancy.
> 
> Points deeded to the current building won’t be restricted in that way.


I’m an April uy. If I don’t get 2021 points while others do I’d expect something back from dvc especially if I buy in March 3

im not going to change my use year nor would it stop me from buying (price is king in my plans) but I’ll be pretty annoyed


----------



## macman123

Wedgeout said:


> Just a thought. Didn’t Aulani recently offer a rebate for first year point allotment? Couldn’t they initially offer the new VGF points to owners for every UY match, but starting with just 2022 UY points, reducing the purchase price even lower for all?



Yes, it was the whole $10 a point when you 'rent' back to Disney.

They can't sell you something which they won't give you. So I cant imagine you could buy a timeshare that you were prevented form using.

They will just do what they do now.


----------



## Wedgeout

macman123 said:


> Yes, it was the whole $10 a point when you 'rent' back to Disney.
> 
> They can't sell you something which they won't give you. So I cant imagine you could buy a timeshare that you were prevented form using.
> 
> They will just do what they do now.


Until it actually starts, we speculate on the price and what they might actually try to do with a new sale in the same association instead a whole new one lol.


----------



## Sandisw

nuhusky123 said:


> I’m an April uy. If I don’t get 2021 points while others do I’d expect something back from dvc especially if I buy in March 3
> 
> im not going to change my use year nor would it stop me from buying (price is king in my plans) but I’ll be pretty annoyed



In the past, when a UY was left out, there was no concession for it.  The big difference was a new resort and when it opened.

For example, IIRC when BLT opened, June UY was the first UY to get points…2009.  Anyone buying with Feb to April UY started with 2010 points because nothing could be used until August.  

VGF does already exist so technically, they can offer anything but could treat it like they do now.  If you try to buy and the don’t have the points, they won’t sell you.

Until sales start, we really just don’t know because I can’t remember how it worked with SSR and the treehouses, or if they have a completely different plan.

March 3rd will be the day to find it all out!


----------



## nuhusky123

Sandisw said:


> In the past, when a UY was left out, there was no concession for it.  The big difference was a new resort and when it opened.
> 
> For example, IIRC when BLT opened, June UY was the first UY to get points…2009.  Anyone buying with Feb to April UY started with 2010 points because nothing could be used until August.
> 
> VGF does already exist so technically, they can offer anything but could treat it like they do now.  If you try to buy and the don’t have the points, they won’t sell you.
> 
> Until sales start, we really just don’t know because I can’t remember how it worked with SSR and the treehouses, or if they have a completely different plan.
> 
> March 3rd will be the day to find it all out!


I may be both grumpy and happy March 3

happy if the price is right, grumpy if I don’t get my 2021 points.

 Hoping for only good vibes March 3

all of that said given vgf already has an association, those who buy early should get 2021 points. Perhaps that will be one of the special Offers by buying close to March 3


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

Sandisw said:


> Until sales start, we really just don’t know because I can’t remember how it worked with SSR and the treehouses, or if they have a completely different plan.


SSR went back on sale in January (of 2009) so it’s a bit of a moot point; all UY would have started with 2008 points initially.


----------



## Sandisw

nuhusky123 said:


> I may be both grumpy and happy March 3
> 
> happy if the price is right, grumpy if I don’t get my 2021 points.
> 
> Hoping for only good vibes March 3
> 
> all of that said given vgf already has an association, those who buy early should get 2021 points. Perhaps that will be one of the special Offers by buying close to March 3



Like I said, I think all will get them…except of course, Feb and March which will already be in the 2022 UY!

They could offer developer points as an incentive and have done that before but it’s applied to all  buying based on point totals!


----------



## Sandisw

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> SSR went back on sale in January (of 2009) so it’s a bit of a moot point; all UY would have started with 2008 points initially.



So, they didn’t leave out any UYs like they did for BLT and RIV? That leads to them not doing it for VGF either.


----------



## DeeBee3

Also spoke to my guide and she did lead me to believe they will have some good deals March 3. She did also mention the great deal at BLT, if that's your cup of tea. Of course that expires March 2!


----------



## UrsulaWantsYourSoul

DeeBee3 said:


> Also spoke to my guide and she did lead me to believe they will have some good deals March 3. She did also mention the great deal at BLT, if that's your cup of tea. Of course that expires March 2!


Of course you know the usual trick there if you're sitting on the fence... you can buy in toward the end of that promotion and have 10 days to change your mind (while you see what the VGF promotions are the next day .


----------



## DisneyMom_3

UrsulaWantsYourSoul said:


> Of course you know the usual trick there if you're sitting on the fence... you can buy in toward the end of that promotion and have 10 days to change your mind (while you see what the VGF promotions are the next day .


My guide did this when I was on the fence. She made me a quote that was good for 10 days just in case.


----------



## Paul Stupin

Sandisw said:


> I think the only UY in question at this point is April UY.  The rest should get 2021 points with a summer opening and IMO, I think they will get them as well.
> 
> The only UY left out of RIV for 2019 points was Feb and that was a new resort
> 
> VGF points already exist so there is no reason not to include all UY.  They have points already from the current building and can’t see why the new building would not have all UYs available.
> 
> The thing we don’t know yet is which points will be for sale to start. Points deeded to the new building wont be eligible for any bookings until the new rooms open for occupancy.
> 
> Points deeded to the current building won’t be restricted in that way.


I have a March UY, and didn’t anticipate I’d get any 2021 points. But you think otherwise?


----------



## CarolynFH

Paul Stupin said:


> I have a March UY, and didn’t anticipate I’d get any 2021 points. But you think otherwise?


You’d have to buy no later than February 28 to get March 2021 points. March 1 and later is in the 2022 UY.


----------



## Sandisw

Paul Stupin said:


> I have a March UY, and didn’t anticipate I’d get any 2021 points. But you think otherwise?



Sorry, I wasn't clear.  Feb and March would not get them because those UY's will already have started the 2022 UY.  I meant all the UY's that are still in their 2021 UYs...so April to December.  When RIV went on sale in April 2019, those with a Feb UY did not get 2019 points.  Their first set was Feb 2020, because the resort was not opening until December 2019.


----------



## Paul Stupin

Sandisw said:


> Sorry, I wasn't clear.  Feb and March would not get them because those UY's will already have started the 2022 UY.  I meant all the UY's that are still in their 2021 UYs...so April to December.  When RIV went on sale in April 2019, those with a Feb UY did not get 2019 points.  Their first set was Feb 2020, because the resort was not opening until December 2019.


Yeah, that’s what I feared. Not a deal breaker.


----------



## DisneyMom_3

Does anyone think we will know the price before March 3rd? (via Announcement or Leaked) I would like to be ready to buy as soon as it goes on sale, but the price will determine how many points I purchase. I feel like I need a little time to crunch numbers.


----------



## DVCRad

DisneyMom_3 said:


> Does anyone think we will know the price before March 3rd? (via Announcement or Leaked) I would like to be ready to buy as soon as it goes on sale, but the price will determine how many points I purchase. I feel like I need a little time to crunch numbers.


You should have time to crunch numbers. They have a lot of points to sell and the initial discount will likely last for more than just a week or two. There is no rush despite the excitement that comes from reading this board produces.


----------



## DVCsloth

DisneyMom_3 said:


> Does anyone think we will know the price before March 3rd? (via Announcement or Leaked) I would like to be ready to buy as soon as it goes on sale, but the price will determine how many points I purchase. I feel like I need a little time to crunch numbers.


No one knows, I would figure on Riviera pricing.


----------



## Sandisw

DisneyMom_3 said:


> Does anyone think we will know the price before March 3rd? (via Announcement or Leaked) I would like to be ready to buy as soon as it goes on sale, but the price will determine how many points I purchase. I feel like I need a little time to crunch numbers.



My guide said the price will not be announced before sales start so offically, we won’t know until March 3rd.

I did my number crunching using a few different situations since the max we will go is 125.

So, close to $200, will do anywhere 80 to 125.  In the $220s, then it’s 50.  At $255, in no rush.

Personally, I think we will be able to purchase what I want because it will be similar to RIV.  I will be sad if it is not.  At least we are only 10 days away!


----------



## nuhusky123

Sandisw said:


> My guide said the price will not be announced before sales start so offically, we won’t know until March 3rd.
> 
> I did my number crunching using a few different situations since the max we will go is 125.
> 
> So, close to $200, will do anywhere 80 to 125.  In the $220s, then it’s 50.  At $255, in no rush.
> 
> Personally, I think we will be able to purchase what I want because it will be similar to RIV.  I will be sad if it is not.  At least we are only 10 days away!


If the price is in the $255 range ill be fascinated to see sales over next six months. I’d expect pathetic sales numbers but also open to dvc surprising me

sales In March which will likely all be from dvc members won’t reflect true interest in gfv. Not until the dvc buyers drop off and non members get a crack at this will we really know how successful gfv is going to be


----------



## davidl81

nuhusky123 said:


> If the price is in the $255 range ill be fascinated to see sales over next six months. I’d expect pathetic sales numbers but also open to dvc surprising me
> 
> sales In March which will likely all be from dvc members won’t reflect true interest in gfv. Not until the dvc buyers drop off and non members get a crack at this will we really know how successful gfv is going to be


At $255 base (assuming no huge incentive to bring it down to $190 etc) the sales for VGF will be pathetic.  It would be a 25% premium to RIV, and very few people would buy that.  Sure there would be a few current VGF owners who need an extra 100 points etc that would buy them, but basically there would be no brand new DVC buyers for VGF when they can get RIV at 25% less.  And no, DVC is not spending the money buying the property from Disney, and refurbishing it just for it not to sell and make RIV look more attractive .


----------



## nuhusky123

does anyone have handy the incentives they offered to dvc members when riv went live?


----------



## UrsulaWantsYourSoul

For Riviera in 2019….
Initial per point cost was $188, “with some attractive incentives available for existing Disney Vacation Club members who add on. For a 125 point purchase, the incentive will be $500. For 150 points, $1,750. 175 points gets you $3,150. 300 points equals $6,750. If you do 1,000 points, the incentive is $30,500! “


----------



## nuhusky123

UrsulaWantsYourSoul said:


> For Riviera in 2019….
> Initial per point cost was $188, “with some attractive incentives available for existing Disney Vacation Club members who add on. For a 125 point purchase, the incentive will be $500. For 150 points, $1,750. 175 points gets you $3,150. 300 points equals $6,750. If you do 1,000 points, the incentive is $30,500! “


That’s interesting thanks. The delta between 125 and 150 is pretty big. They really pushed going for 150 or more


----------



## UrsulaWantsYourSoul

https://dvcnews.com/index.php/resor...-pricing-revealed-for-disney-s-riviera-resort


----------



## Ssplashhmtn

nuhusky123 said:


> sales In March which will likely all be from dvc members won’t reflect true interest in gfv. Not until the dvc buyers drop off and non members get a crack at this will we really know how successful gfv is going to be



Alternatively I think sales will be directed at the steady supply of Grand Floridian hotel guests that just dropped nearly $1000/ night (with hotel tax) for an unrenovated room in one of the other buildings.  If I were shown the DVC math (VGF point chart for the same room, and cost/point + dues), plus pics of the newly renovated rooms, I’d sign right up.


----------



## SusieQ93

Ssplashhmtn said:


> Alternatively I think sales will be directed at the steady supply of Grand Floridian hotel guests that just dropped nearly $1000/ night (with hotel tax) for an unrenovated room in one of the other buildings.  If I were shown the DVC math (VGF point chart for the same room, and cost/point + dues), plus pics of the newly renovated rooms, I’d sign right up.


That math is what convinced my husband it was a good idea. If you’re going to go anyway and like to stay in the best deluxe properties there, it honestly is a no-brainer.


----------



## DisneyMom_3

Ssplashhmtn said:


> Alternatively I think sales will be directed at the steady supply of Grand Floridian hotel guests that just dropped nearly $1000/ night (with hotel tax) for an unrenovated room in one of the other buildings.  If I were shown the DVC math (VGF point chart for the same room, and cost/point + dues), plus pics of the newly renovated rooms, I’d sign right up.





SusieQ93 said:


> That math is what convinced my husband it was a good idea. If you’re going to go anyway and like to stay in the best deluxe properties there, it honestly is a no-brainer.


Good point!
We stayed Moderate due to price, but I always wanted to stay at the Deluxe resorts. When I realized I could stay Deluxe for the same price as a Moderate, it was a No-brainer for us too!


----------



## davidl81

SusieQ93 said:


> That math is what convinced my husband it was a good idea. If you’re going to go anyway and like to stay in the best deluxe properties there, it honestly is a no-brainer.


I wonder how many people who stay at the Grand Floridian Hotel are typical DVC buyers?  IE how many of those guest tend to do Disney once every 5 years or so as opposed to those who go every single year?
I have no idea on the breakdown, but I’m sure Disney knows 100%.


----------



## mort1331

what would be more enticing to them is if they were able to put the price of the room they just paid for towards their new dvc purchase. Nice down payment.


----------



## Sandisw

mort1331 said:


> what would be more enticing to them is if they were able to put the price of the room they just paid for towards their new dvc purchase. Nice down payment.



Years ago, they used to do this. I believe they charged you the points instead.


----------



## Her Dotness

Ssplashhmtn said:


> Alternatively I think sales will be directed at the steady supply of Grand Floridian hotel guests that just dropped nearly $1000/ night (with hotel tax) for an unrenovated room in one of the other buildings.  If I were shown the DVC math (VGF point chart for the same room, and cost/point + dues), plus pics of the newly renovated rooms, I’d sign right up.



I disagree.

I suspect that very few people who spend that much for a GF room would buy VGF points at all.

Those who do buy into DVC and want VGF are probably more like us, can't pop off for a GF stay any old time because they simply don't have that much money.

We loved staying at the GF and finally decided that it was ridiculous to keep laying out wads of money for a week there every year when we could break even on VGF in a few years--and then feel like our room cost nothing.

Neither you nor we are typical GF hotel guests. 

I truly don't think the majority of GF guests are interested in VGF. They don't need to be.


----------



## AvidDisReader

davidl81 said:


> At $255 base (assuming no huge incentive to bring it down to $190 etc) the sales for VGF will be pathetic.  It would be a 25% premium to RIV, and very few people would buy that.  Sure there would be a few current VGF owners who need an extra 100 points etc that would buy them, but basically there would be no brand new DVC buyers for VGF when they can get RIV at 25% less.  And no, DVC is not spending the money buying the property from Disney, and refurbishing it just for it not to sell and make RIV look more attractive .


Actually, this will be a chance for those like me to finally see the effect of the resale restriction.  IF (that is a big if), there is NO resale restriction on VGF and the price is higher than RIV, yet the sales are more brisk will those nay sayers finally admit how negative the resale restriction is perceived by the public.  On the other hand, if the price is close to RIV but the sales are relatively the same between the 2, I will be forced to admit that the resale restriction really is not that big a deal.


----------



## CarolynFH

mort1331 said:


> what would be more enticing to them is if they were able to put the price of the room they just paid for towards their new dvc purchase. Nice down payment.


That was exactly the incentive when we bought, so many years ago. We were staying 7 nights in a standard room at Poly, which at the time would have cost 97 points. We bought 300 points, paid for 203. The 97 points counted as our down payment.


----------



## Sandisw

AvidDisReader said:


> Actually, this will be a chance for those like me to finally see the effect of the resale restriction.  IF (that is a big if), there is NO resale restriction on VGF and the price is higher than RIV, yet the sales are more brisk will those nay sayers finally admit how negative the resale restriction is perceived by the public.  On the other hand, if the price is close to RIV but the sales are relatively the same between the 2, I will be forced to admit that the resale restriction really is not that big a deal.



We may be able to see it with what happens with BLT because those carry no restrictions and have an incentive now bringing it close to RIV. 

So, it’s possible we could get insight sooner because of that.  I think we Do know that many current owners haven’t bought RIV because of restrictions  so I imagine sales for VGF when it just owners will do well, especially if it is close to  RIV.

I think it will be an exciting few months to see how the numbers shake out. If it ends up that VGF takes a big portion away from RIV, then it s very possible DVD could choose to remove them.


----------



## tidefan

AvidDisReader said:


> Actually, this will be a chance for those like me to finally see the effect of the resale restriction.  IF (that is a big if), there is NO resale restriction on VGF and the price is higher than RIV, yet the sales are more brisk will those nay sayers finally admit how negative the resale restriction is perceived by the public.  On the other hand, if the price is close to RIV but the sales are relatively the same between the 2, I will be forced to admit that the resale restriction really is not that big a deal.


VGF2 has its own drawbacks, however, most notably that there are only 40 years on the contract.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

tidefan said:


> VGF2 has its own drawbacks, however, most notably that there are only 40 years on the contract.



Actually 42 years.  I believe it's the exact same number that BCV had when it was sold new.


----------



## Bjaiken77

Sandisw said:


> We may be able to see it with what happens with BLT because those carry no restrictions and have an incentive now bringing it close to RIV.
> 
> So, it’s possible we could get insight sooner because of that.  I think we Do know that many current owners haven’t bought RIV because of restrictions  so I imagine sales for VGF when it just owners will do well, especially if it is close to  RIV.
> 
> I think it will be an exciting few months to see how the numbers shake out. If it ends up that VGF takes a big portion away from RIV, then it s very possible DVD could choose to remove them.



I know this has been discussed before, but do you really think the sales guides are going to mention the resale restrictions?  People on here are savvy, but we probably delete sent a small portion of total sales.


----------



## Her Dotness

tidefan said:


> VGF2 has its own drawbacks, however, most notably that there are only 40 years on the contract.



Yet another reason why I'm not so sure it'll attract buyers in the droves I keep seeing people say they expect.

If I were 25-35ish, I doubt I'd want to have my contract run out just as I was about to retire and have more time to loll about at VGF.


----------



## SleeplessInTO

Sandisw said:


> We may be able to see it with what happens with BLT because those carry no restrictions and have an incentive now bringing it close to RIV.
> 
> So, it’s possible we could get insight sooner because of that.  I think we Do know that many current owners haven’t bought RIV because of restrictions  so I imagine sales for VGF when it just owners will do well, especially if it is close to  RIV.
> 
> I think it will be an exciting few months to see how the numbers shake out. If it ends up that VGF takes a big portion away from RIV, then it s very possible DVD could choose to remove them.


I’m not sure the BLT sale will be indicative - it is not being advertised the way RIV and VGF2 are. I wouldn’t have known about it without reading these boards.
I do think the comparison of RIV and VGF2 sales will be interesting. But if Disney prices Grand Floridian significantly higher than $200/point, I’d probably go with a resale contract instead of buying direct at Riviera.


----------



## Sandisw

Bjaiken77 said:


> I know this has been discussed before, but do you really think the sales guides are going to mention the resale restrictions?  People on here are savvy, but we probably delete sent a small portion of total sales.



No, they don’t unless someone asks. Personally I don’t think it’s making a dent in sales for new owners, but some who own already or people like these boards have definitely decided it’s an issue.

I think it was more that with BLT going close to RIV..one with and one without the restrictions..at least we can have something to compare and see if it leads to any meaningful info!!!


----------



## Sandisw

SleeplessInTO said:


> I’m not sure the BLT sale will be indicative - it is not being advertised the way RIV and VGF2 are. I wouldn’t have known about it without reading these boards.
> I do think the comparison of RIV and VGF2 sales will be interesting. But if Disney prices Grand Floridian significantly higher than $200/point, I’d probably go with a resale contract instead of buying direct at Riviera.



True but when buyers go to buy and are hesitant right now, it may come up. So if we see a larger than normal BLT sales it could indicate something.

But I do think that the VGF vs RIV battle will be a good one if priced close to each other.


----------



## SleeplessInTO

Sandisw said:


> True but when buyers go to buy and are hesitant right now, it may come up. So if we see a larger than normal BLT sales it could indicate something.
> 
> But I do think that the VGF vs RIV battle will be a good one if priced close to each other.


Yes I’m getting my popcorn ready! Can’t wait to see the sales numbers for March and April (first month for existing members, first month for new members).


----------



## Bjaiken77

Sandisw said:


> No, they don’t unless someone asks. Personally I don’t think it’s making a dent in sales for new owners, but some who own already or people like these boards have definitely decided it’s an issue.
> 
> I think it was more that with BLT going close to RIV..one with and one without the restrictions..at least we can have something to compare and see if it leads to any meaningful info!!!



I wish more sales guides would mention it so we could possibly see that skewing to VGF that would get them to drop these restrictions.


----------



## UrsulaWantsYourSoul

In theory VGF2 sales should crush Riviera for the first several months since there's likely a lot of pent up demand and hype for it and it's the shiny new thing.  Ho hum.  I'm more interested to see several months down the line how their sales compare once the beginning rush has subdued.


----------



## RichVIII

My guide said they were coming in early on the 3rd to handle demand.


----------



## stwaldman

RichVIII said:


> My guide said they were coming in early on the 3rd to handle demand.


I certainly would be in early if being late meant risking losing my commission to somebody picking up off the dial tree rather than buying their own guide


----------



## Sandisw

RichVIII said:


> My guide said they were coming in early on the 3rd to handle demand.



Which I hope is a hint that the price will be low $200/s

My guide did say he was looking forward to talking to me on the 3rd so I am trying To infer that means I’ll be happy with the price!!!


----------



## lowlight

Sandisw said:


> Which I hope is a hint that the price will be low $200/s
> 
> My guide did say he was looking forward to talking to me on the 3rd so I am trying To infer that means I’ll be happy with the price!!!



I would think if any guides knew the price we’d all know by now.  Maybe it will be like a bad Xmas morning. Imagine how excited they are thinking how much 200/pt VGF they could sell and then they sit down at their desk at 5 am March 3 with their grande mocha Frappuccino ready to make some cash, open their e-mail and bam, 245 a pt.


----------



## Sandisw

lowlight said:


> I would think if any guides knew the price we’d all know by now.  Maybe it will be like a bad Xmas morning. Imagine how excited they are thinking how much 200/pt VGF they could sell and then they sit down at their desk at 5 am March 3 with their grande mocha Frappuccino ready to make some cash, open their e-mail and bam, 245 a pt.



I am pretty confident he knows the price based on our conversations and some of what we discussed.  

But didn’t give any information that would allude to where it will fall.  I’m grasping at that comment!!!! Lol


----------



## nuhusky123

stwaldman said:


> I certainly would be in early if being late meant risking losing my commission to somebody picking up off the dial tree rather than buying their own guide


March 3 be making money month for dvc guides


----------



## nuhusky123

Sandisw said:


> I am pretty confident he knows the price based on our conversations and some of what we discussed.
> 
> But didn’t give any information that would allude to where it will fall.  I’m grasping at that comment!!!! Lol


based on my last call with my guide something tells me they know something, perhaps not exact price but range


----------



## Yinn

Sandisw said:


> We may be able to see it with what happens with BLT because those carry no restrictions and have an incentive now bringing it close to RIV.
> 
> So, it’s possible we could get insight sooner because of that.  I think we Do know that many current owners haven’t bought RIV because of restrictions  so I imagine sales for VGF when it just owners will do well, especially if it is close to  RIV.
> 
> I think it will be an exciting few months to see how the numbers shake out. If it ends up that VGF takes a big portion away from RIV, then it s very possible DVD could choose to remove them.



We took a look at just that as we've been looking to get rid of our CCV for RIV.  The problem is the 10 year difference.  We like BLT more than we like RIV, so we kind of went for $9/pt - $2,250 total we could get BLT instead of RIV.  But then we thought about it and we'd have 10 years less.  To pay more to get less was a bit worrisome.  

That being said, we're also wondering why we worried about resale restrictions if we're thinking about getting that last 10 years...


----------



## lowlight

Yinn said:


> We took a look at just that as we've been looking to get rid of our CCV for RIV.  The problem is the 10 year difference.  We like BLT more than we like RIV, so we kind of went for $9/pt - $2,250 total we could get BLT instead of RIV.  But then we thought about it and we'd have 10 years less.  To pay more to get less was a bit worrisome.
> 
> That being said, we're also wondering why we worried about resale restrictions if we're thinking about getting that last 10 years...


Just get both!


----------



## Yinn

lowlight said:


> Just get both!



Unfortunately that seems to be the way my addiction is going.  I just made an offer on SSR in the time that I posted to this reply...


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

If the guides knew the price, we’d know the price.

First day of a “new” offering and new incentives should certainly have big demand


----------



## nuhusky123

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> If the guides knew the price, we’d know the price.
> 
> First day of a “new” offering and new incentives should certainly have big demand


I don’t think they know a price, but I believe they may have been told a price range


----------



## DVChris

My CM told me last week that he knew pricing but could not risk losing his job since all calls are recorded.


----------



## DKZB

Sandisw said:


> We may be able to see it with what happens with BLT because those carry no restrictions and have an incentive now bringing it close to RIV.
> 
> So, it’s possible we could get insight sooner because of that.  I think we Do know that many current owners haven’t bought RIV because of restrictions  so I imagine sales for VGF when it just owners will do well, especially if it is close to  RIV.
> 
> I think it will be an exciting few months to see how the numbers shake out. If it ends up that VGF takes a big portion away from RIV, then it s very possible DVD could choose to remove them.



The difference is BLT is not being actively marketed. No matter what, those sales will be small relative to DVC as a whole.


----------



## Sandisw

DKZB said:


> The difference is BLT is not being actively marketed. No matter what, those sales will be small relative to DVC as a whole.



They will be but if we see a spike in sales compare to previous it may give us a hint on what to expect.


----------



## Ssplashhmtn

Her Dotness said:


> I disagree.
> 
> I suspect that very few people who spend that much for a GF room would buy VGF points at all.
> 
> Those who do buy into DVC and want VGF are probably more like us, can't pop off for a GF stay any old time because they simply don't have that much money.
> 
> We loved staying at the GF and finally decided that it was ridiculous to keep laying out wads of money for a week there every year when we could break even on VGF in a few years--and then feel like our room cost nothing.
> 
> Neither you nor we are typical GF hotel guests.
> 
> I truly don't think the majority of GF guests are interested in VGF. They don't need to be.



I feel sure I’m a typical GF guest after spending weeks there, annually, typically in RP, but why wouldn’t I take more (and better) space for less cost, all as hotel side rack rates increase every year.  I don’t at all understand the thinking that the majority of DVC guests are such because they “need to be” and if they could pay rack rates, they would.   Not at GF or otherwise.


----------



## BeachClub2014

Sandisw said:


> Which I hope is a hint that the price will be low $200/s
> 
> My guide did say he was looking forward to talking to me on the 3rd so I am trying To infer that means I’ll be happy with the price!!!



My guide did something similar. She emailed me the other day with the "news" and wanted to schedule time for us to connect on the 3rd as her availability was booking up already.


----------



## SusieQ93

Ssplashhmtn said:


> I feel sure I’m a typical GF guest after spending weeks there, annually, typically in RP, but why wouldn’t I take more (and better) space for less cost, all as hotel side rack rates increase every year.  I don’t at all understand the thinking that the majority of DVC guests are such because they “need to be” and if they could pay rack rates, they would.   Not at GF or otherwise.


I know that you can finance, but I think if you have the money to buy a DVC contract, you prob have the money to stay deluxe. We never stay at moderates. We are going to be new owners. With the math, I convinced my husband it was a good way to use cash because with what we’re already paying, we’ll break even in 6 or 7 years.


----------



## nuhusky123

SusieQ93 said:


> I know that you can finance, but I think if you have the money to buy a DVC contract, you prob have the money to stay deluxe. We never stay at moderates. We are going to be new owners. With the math, I convinced my husband it was a good way to use cash because with what we’re already paying, we’ll break even in 6 or 7 years.


Going into debt to go on vacation isn’t a great decision. I’d think most people who are buying dvc today given min buy in is around $31k can afford deluxe. Perhaps back in the day when dvc was affordable this may not have been the case but let’s not forget today the minimum you have to set down is $31,000.

That’s a car, a large mortgage payment etc  I find it hard to believe most who can afford this are not already deluxe clientele or used to four star accommodations


----------



## Bjaiken77

DVChris said:


> My CM told me last week that he knew pricing but could not risk losing his job since all calls are recorded.



I’m surprised this never leaks out!  Disney does such a good job keeping things under wraps.


----------



## Bjaiken77

nuhusky123 said:


> Going into debt to go on vacation isn’t a great decision. I’d think most people who are buying dvc today given min buy in is around $31k can afford deluxe. Perhaps back in the day when dvc was affordable this may not have been the case but let’s not forget today the minimum you have to set down is $31,000.
> 
> That’s a car, a large mortgage payment etc  I find it hard to believe most who can afford this are not already deluxe clientele or used to four star accommodations



My personal feeling is that everyone is different.  We have 350 points and have paid for them in cash.  However, I would not be opposed to taking a loan.  This is our hobby.  I get extreme joy and pride out of being a DVC member that serves me even when I’m not at the parks.  We don’t have RVs, boats, recreational vehicles, etc.  As a couple, this is our thing.

The math might not work out as well in terms of savings  if you finance, but that’s simply dollar and cents.  That removes the emotional tie from the equation.  Let’s face it, we all overpay for the magic.  Don’t believe me?  Go by a Coke at a Disney concession stand and tell me you are getting a good value.  I pay the over priced mark up because I’m at the parks, on vacation, and want to enjoy my time away from the grind that is life.

To be clear, this not an endorsement for financing.  I’m just saying everyone is different and everyone values things differently.  Make the best decision for you.  Know your budget and at least know the numbers.  From there, make your own choice.  To me, financing is a fine decision for some, especially if you can pay it off early.


----------



## stwaldman

nuhusky123 said:


> Going into debt to go on vacation isn’t a great decision. I’d think most people who are buying dvc today given min buy in is around $31k can afford deluxe. Perhaps back in the day when dvc was affordable this may not have been the case but let’s not forget today the minimum you have to set down is $31,000.
> 
> That’s a car, a large mortgage payment etc  I find it hard to believe most who can afford this are not already deluxe clientele or used to four star accommodations


i'll disagree on this one from personal experience, not necessarily the debt part, but the part about people who are buying dvc are used to being deluxe clientele. DVC is still a product marketed heavily (not exclusively) to young families who probably aren't used to staying at deluxes that (rightfully or wrongfully) can be sold/upsold on more premium experience for some modest financing or through a year or two of heavy saving up (we ended up joining a couple of years after actually doing the live tour). Sure, there are plenty of DVC owners who fall into the category you describe, but there are a substantial amount who don't too. 

I think comparing the mentality of cash stays to DVC (and the cash vs. dvc populations of the resorts) is a bit apples to oranges in my eyes. When I booked cash stays, I would sit on the disney or costco website and have to stare at the difference between GF and coronado or a marriott property and really ask myself honestly if the 300+/night (pre-tax, to boot) savings was really worth staying at GF or poly vs. staying elsewhere, and typically i decided it wasnt. This was effectively the exact and very honest pitch from my sales guide, it was "I'm not here to save you money, I'm here to take the money you spent staying at the marriott on I4 and turn it into staying on the monorail loop, with a little loss upfront and a little gain on the back end." 

DVC is a capital purchase and is an understanding that "hey, i'm not going to reap this benefit today, i'm either going to reap the benefit upon disposal or upon long term usage". There are certainly different demographics that buy into DVC, but the primary sales pitch is and typically has been to tell families "take the money you were spending on moderates and turn it into deluxes, and the math works out if you stick with it for enough years". Sure, there are also people that are used to spending $4K per trip on hotels and get sold on DVC too, but it only took 5 minutes in the SSR sales center when I was there to see what the demographic of buyer was, and lets just say most of the lovely young couples were brought from other resorts in the minnie vans : -)


----------



## EYL

Bjaiken77 said:


> I’m surprised this never leaks out!  Disney does such a good job keeping things under wraps.



I think they only tell the guides the exact details the day before.  I called my guide the last day of an incentive, and he implied that I should wait until the next day.  Until then, he was contacting me quite often to convince me to pull the trigger.


----------



## SleeplessInTO

If a guide really wanted to tell you the price in advance, they would manage it. Call from a personal cell phone, next-day delivery mail, hiring a skywriter to put the price above your house, carrier pigeon, message in a bottle. I've seen enough movies to know the unrealistic measures that can be taken. But I hope nobody leaks it. I'm enjoying the anticipation and build up. It's like lining up for Harry Potter book release day, except I'm adding several 0's to the amount I'm planning to spend.


----------



## Leight19

I don’t recall seeing this in thread but if VGF2 opens at $207 a point what are predictions for average resale price once things settle? I was tempted to buy once this was announced but with recent changes at Disney I hesitate to give them more money. However, if we see decent discount of resale vs direct once market adjusts I would have hard time not buying a resale contract.


----------



## stwaldman

Leight19 said:


> I don’t recall seeing this in thread but if VGF2 opens at $207 a point what are predictions for average resale price once things settle? I was tempted to buy once this was announced but with recent changes at Disney I hesitate to give them more money. However, if we see decent discount of resale vs direct once market adjusts I would have hard time not buying a resale contract.


I would think that resale might fall into a "just below" copper creek or BLT if they are selling it at $207 (and no huge incentives) The comparative direct price (assuming no big incentives on the other resorts as well) will drive it below those two, but I'm not sure it would drop much below that because the location and contract length still gives it a leg up on the resort selling generally below $150pp.

edited to note i'm using the board sponsor for average resale price, which puts BLT and CCV in the high 160s right now.


----------



## Sandisw

Bjaiken77 said:


> I’m surprised this never leaks out!  Disney does such a good job keeping things under wraps.



CMs are a loyal bunch!  They don’t share things even when they leave!!!


----------



## nuhusky123

Sandisw said:


> CMs are a loyal bunch!  They don’t share things even when they leave!!!


Who wants to get fired and sued by Disney, I wouldn’t break my nda and risk my income


----------



## Sandisw

Leight19 said:


> I don’t recall seeing this in thread but if VGF2 opens at $207 a point what are predictions for average resale price once things settle? I was tempted to buy once this was announced but with recent changes at Disney I hesitate to give them more money. However, if we see decent discount of resale vs direct once market adjusts I would have hard time not buying a resale contract.



I think it will tremd down especially for the larger contrasts. Under 100 points may not be impacted.

But for 150 or higher? It could be worth the extra to have unrestricted points and be eligible for whatever membership extras that exist from time to time.


----------



## Sandisw

nuhusky123 said:


> Who wants to get fired and sued by Disney, I wouldn’t break my nda and risk my income



But even after they stay loyal.  My DD was part of the groups involved in sending out those elusive pin codes to cash guests and to this day still won’t spill!!!!! Lol


----------



## nuhusky123

Sandisw said:


> But even after they stay loyal.  My DD was part of the groups involved in sending out those elusive pin codes to cash guests and to this day still won’t spill!!!!! Lol


An NDA extends post employment, being on the hook for millions in damages can put the fear of god in you


----------



## Sandisw

nuhusky123 said:


> An NDA extends post employment, being on the hook for millions in damages can put the fear of god in you



My DD did not sign an NDA…that I know for sure…and before you say it..she would have said if that is the reason…she said it’s just an unwritten commitment to the magic.


----------



## rubybutt

Sandisw said:


> But even after they stay loyal.  My DD was part of the groups involved in sending out those elusive pin codes to cash guests and to this day still won’t spill!!!!! Lol


I don't know what the pin codes were.  Care to tell me?


----------



## nuhusky123

Sandisw said:


> My DD did not sign an NDA…that I know for sure…and before you say it..she would have said if that is the reason…she said it’s just an unwritten commitment to the magic.


I’d be shocked, fall off chair shocked if Disney doesn’t have NDA language in their employment docs. It might not be an explicit NDA as a separate doc but likely in the employment docs she signed

no public large company in the USA doesn’t have an NDA in place with their employees


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

nuhusky123 said:


> I’d be shocked, fall off chair shocked if Disney doesn’t have NDA language in their employment docs. It might not be an explicit NDA as a separate doc but likely in the employment docs she signed
> 
> no public large company in the USA doesn’t have an NDA in place with their employees


I work for a Fortune 500 company in a management role and I’ve never signed an NDA.


----------



## nuhusky123

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> I work for a Fortune 500 company in a management role and I’ve never signed an NDA.


Again would be shocked if your on boarding docs didn’t have a non disclosure clause


----------



## Redheadprincess

nuhusky123 said:


> Going into debt to go on vacation isn’t a great decision. I’d think most people who are buying dvc today given min buy in is around $31k can afford deluxe. Perhaps back in the day when dvc was affordable this may not have been the case but let’s not forget today the minimum you have to set down is $31,000.
> 
> That’s a car, a large mortgage payment etc  I find it hard to believe most who can afford this are not already deluxe clientele or used to four star accommodations


We are trying to get a BCV resale right now, I know less than 20 years left, we have been rofrd twice already. We go to Disney on average 3 times a year, half the time staying off property or at value and moderates. I've rented DVC points a few times and loved the deluxe. I can afford but can't justify a $700 a night hotel room. But even buying a less than 20 year dvc, with maintenance fees just took that $700 hotel room down to $280-$340 during the times of that that we go to Disney. We'll be 71 in 2042 so the 20 years does not bother us.


----------



## SusieQ93

Redheadprincess said:


> We are trying to get a BCV resale right now, I know less than 20 years left, we have been rofrd twice already. We go to Disney on average 3 times a year, half the time staying off property or at value and moderates. I've rented DVC points a few times and loved the deluxe. I can afford but can't justify a $700 a night hotel room. But even buying a less than 20 year dvc, with maintenance fees just took that $700 hotel room down to $280-$340 during the times of that that we go to Disney. We'll be 71 in 2042 so the 20 years does not bother us.


That’s the same reason 42 years on VGF doesn’t bother me. I’ll be in my late 70s by the time it expires. 42 years (or even 20) is a REALLY long time. Plus VGF expires in 2064. Riviera in 2070, so it’s actually only 6 years between the two.  Expiration dates really have never factored into which resort I would buy. For me, buying where I want to own is far more important. The math still works on any of them.


----------



## CarolMN

Leight19 said:


> I don’t recall seeing this in thread but if VGF2 opens at $207 a point what are predictions for average resale price once things settle? I was tempted to buy once this was announced but with recent changes at Disney I hesitate to give them more money. However, if we see decent discount of resale vs direct once market adjusts I would have hard time not buying a resale contract.


I'm waiting to see the March 3 prices.  No way I will  pay the current asking price for the small VGF contracts if Disney sells for the same price as Riviera ($207).    Most of them seem to be stripped, too.


----------



## Sandisw

nuhusky123 said:


> I’d be shocked, fall off chair shocked if Disney doesn’t have NDA language in their employment docs. It might not be an explicit NDA as a separate doc but likely in the employment docs she signed
> 
> no public large company in the USA doesn’t have an NDA in place with their employees



Nope…not Disney, and not with with current company either..so I am going to leave it there.


----------



## SusieQ93

CarolMN said:


> I'm waiting to see the March 3 prices.  No way I will  pay the current asking price for the small VGF contracts if Disney sells for the same price as Riviera ($207).    Most of them seem to be stripped, too.


That’s my thoughts too. There would have to be a pretty large spread to get me to ever consider resale if they sell at $207 because you will most likely get 21 UY pts and most contracts I’ve seen on resale are stripped like you say. So just that alone negates any savings in my opinion. Not to mention the unrestricted points buying direct and other member benefits. And not having to deal with the hassle of resale, ROFR, time to close, etc.


----------



## SusieQ93

Sandisw said:


> Nope…not Disney, and not with with current company either..so I am going to leave it there.


The level of loyalty your daughter has is impressive! I would tell my mom anything without her even asking  probably good I don’t work anywhere with interesting secrets. I struggle to keep bday and Christmas gifts a secret.


----------



## Sandisw

rubybutt said:


> I don't know what the pin codes were.  Care to tell me?



Not sure if they still send them but they were special deals given to certain guests via email that allowed for discounts not open to the general public.

They could not be transferred to others and were for cash rooms. it was like  winning the lottery when people got them!,,


----------



## Sandisw

SusieQ93 said:


> The level of loyalty your daughter has is impressive! I would tell my mom anything without her even asking  probably good I don’t work anywhere with interesting secrets. I struggle to keep bday and Christmas gifts a secret.



Tell me about it! I even tried to bribe her!  Nope…didn’t spill even then!


----------



## Her Dotness

Sandisw said:


> Not sure if they still send them but they were special deals given to certain guests via email that allowed for discounts not open to the general public.
> 
> They could not be transferred to others and were for cash rooms. it was like  winning the lottery when people got them!,,



Yup, those were great.

Nearly caused marital strife, though, when I decided to send Disney my email and got 3 pretty nice ones 3 years in succession. Used them for sweet discounts on GF CL.

DH's had been the email address for us previously, so he was somewhat chapped by my luck as he had gotten 1 piddly one for a time of year we couldn't go.

Those were the days.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

nuhusky123 said:


> Again would be shocked if your on boarding docs didn’t have a non disclosure clause


I just checked. They didn’t. I’m remote so I have them all in my email.


----------



## nuhusky123

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> I just checked. They didn’t. I’m remote so I have them all in my email.


I’ve always found myself signing a couple NDA’s while employed, the couple coming in when a special project gets its own NDA


----------



## wnielsen1

I found the pricing:
$100/pt for blue card members
$200/pt for new members
$300/pt for white card members


----------



## nuhusky123

wnielsen1 said:


> I found the pricing:
> $100/pt for blue card members
> $200/pt for new members
> $300/pt for white card members


If only this were true I’d be in hog heaven


----------



## RamblinWreck

wnielsen1 said:


> I found the pricing:
> $100/pt for blue card members
> $200/pt for new members
> $300/pt for white card members


I can confirm.

The bus driver that took me to Disney Springs told me.


----------



## Her Dotness

wnielsen1 said:


> I found the pricing:
> $100/pt for blue card members
> $200/pt for new members
> $300/pt for white card members



And then, there's that prime oceanfront property in Arizona...


----------



## AvidDisReader

Her Dotness said:


> Yup, those were great.
> 
> Nearly caused marital strife, though, when I decided to send Disney my email and got 3 pretty nice ones 3 years in succession. Used them for sweet discounts on GF CL.
> 
> DH's had been the email address for us previously, so he was somewhat chapped by my luck as he had gotten 1 piddly one for a time of year we couldn't go.
> 
> Those were the days.


My wife had just booked a cash room when we received one of these.  Immediately canceled the cash reservation and took the special.  As I recall it was quite a savings at a Moderate resort instead of Value resort.


----------



## DaveNan

I'm hoping the launch of the new resort will drive them to open up AP sales.  (rebellions are built on hope)


----------



## DisneyMom_3

Her Dotness said:


> Yup, those were great.
> 
> Nearly caused marital strife, though, when I decided to send Disney my email and got 3 pretty nice ones 3 years in succession. Used them for sweet discounts on GF CL.
> 
> DH's had been the email address for us previously, so he was somewhat chapped by my luck as he had gotten 1 piddly one for a time of year we couldn't go.
> 
> Those were the days.


I got one recently but it was for my mom!  She’s never been to Disney except when I take her. This is the fourth one I’ve received for her in the last few years, but when I try to use it, it is tied to her name. Of course, she doesn’t go every time with us and the dates never seem to work out! 
I have no idea why they send hers to my email. To add insult to injury, I’ve NEVER received one!


----------



## DisneyMom_3

wnielsen1 said:


> I found the pricing:
> $100/pt for blue card members
> $200/pt for new members
> $300/pt for white card members


 I hope not! I’m trying to fix my No Blue Card Blues!


----------



## lowlight

wnielsen1 said:


> I found the pricing:
> $100/pt for blue card members
> $200/pt for new members
> $300/pt for white card members


Preceded by the immediate suspension of blue card benefits.


----------



## CarolynFH

DisneyMom_3 said:


> I got one recently but it was for my mom!  She’s never been to Disney except when I take her. This is the fourth one I’ve received for her in the last few years, but when I try to use it, it is tied to her name. Of course, she doesn’t go every time with us and the dates never seem to work out!
> I have no idea why they send hers to my email. To add insult to injury, I’ve NEVER received one!


I've gotten one, in all my Disney years.  It wouldn't work online no matter what permutations of our names I put in, so I called.  It turned out that PIN was linked to someone we don't even know!


----------



## SleeplessInTO

My guide just called me to tell me that 1/ this phone call is monitored and recorded and 2/ he will call me on March 3 with ALL the GFV2 information. He’s never mentioned the monitored and recorded bit before…


----------



## SusieQ93

Thanks


SleeplessInTO said:


> My guide just called me to tell me that 1/ this phone call is monitored and recorded and 2/ he will call me on March 3 with ALL the GFV2 information. He’s never mentioned the monitored and recorded bit before…


please share ALL the VGF2 information on the 3rd with us non-member peons  can’t wait to hear what you all find out.


----------



## Her Dotness

SusieQ93 said:


> please share ALL the VGF2 information on the 3rd with us non-member peons  can’t wait to hear what you all find out.



Ohhhh, no need whatsoever to fear that we won't be talking about these prices within seconds of anyone finding out how much.

In fact, being first to post the price will be both a race and status symbol for the first with The REALLY *REALLY* BIG News.


----------



## Sandisw

Her Dotness said:


> Ohhhh, no need whatsoever to fear that we won't be talking about these prices within seconds of anyone finding out how much.
> 
> In fact, being first to post the price will be both a race and status symbol for the first with The REALLY *REALLY* BIG News.



Going to be liked Xmas eve as a kid.  DH just gave me the go ahead to buy what I want so I am so ready!  I may even push to 125 to 150 if the price is right!


----------



## DonMacGregor

Sandisw said:


> Going to be liked Xmas eve as a kid.  DH just gave me the go ahead to buy what I want so I am so ready!  I may even push to 125 to 150 if the price is right!


----------



## Matty B13

I'm surprised that someone here hasn't put up a count down clock......


----------



## SleeplessInTO

SusieQ93 said:


> Thanks
> 
> please share ALL the VGF2 information on the 3rd with us non-member peons  can’t wait to hear what you all find out.


I will!! I asked him to call me in the morning, not the afternoon lol.


----------



## Sandisw

Matty B13 said:


> I'm surprised that someone here hasn't put up a count down clock......



I was going to but knew it’d get buried so I figured we could on the 2nd!


----------



## DKZB

stwaldman said:


> i'll disagree on this one from personal experience, not necessarily the debt part, but the part about people who are buying dvc are used to being deluxe clientele. DVC is still a product marketed heavily (not exclusively) to young families who probably aren't used to staying at deluxes that (rightfully or wrongfully) can be sold/upsold on more premium experience for some modest financing or through a year or two of heavy saving up (we ended up joining a couple of years after actually doing the live tour). Sure, there are plenty of DVC owners who fall into the category you describe, but there are a substantial amount who don't too.
> 
> I think comparing the mentality of cash stays to DVC (and the cash vs. dvc populations of the resorts) is a bit apples to oranges in my eyes. When I booked cash stays, I would sit on the disney or costco website and have to stare at the difference between GF and coronado or a marriott property and really ask myself honestly if the 300+/night (pre-tax, to boot) savings was really worth staying at GF or poly vs. staying elsewhere, and typically i decided it wasnt. This was effectively the exact and very honest pitch from my sales guide, it was "I'm not here to save you money, I'm here to take the money you spent staying at the marriott on I4 and turn it into staying on the monorail loop, with a little loss upfront and a little gain on the back end."
> 
> DVC is a capital purchase and is an understanding that "hey, i'm not going to reap this benefit today, i'm either going to reap the benefit upon disposal or upon long term usage". There are certainly different demographics that buy into DVC, but the primary sales pitch is and typically has been to tell families "take the money you were spending on moderates and turn it into deluxes, and the math works out if you stick with it for enough years". Sure, there are also people that are used to spending $4K per trip on hotels and get sold on DVC too, but it only took 5 minutes in the SSR sales center when I was there to see what the demographic of buyer was, and lets just say most of the lovely young couples were brought from other resorts in the minnie vans : -)



I can’t speak for most but thankfully I’m fortunate to have been able to buy lots of points this year cash. That said, if it weren’t points and dues I KNOW I would travel less and would never pay $600+/night for a Savannah View room at AKV if I had to shell out the cash. It’s not that I couldn’t afford it, it’s just I know myself. DVC helps me do things I wouldn’t otherwise do. We all have our reasons and it is OK that everyone is a bit different.


----------



## jbreen2010

So on March 3rd when they officially start selling more points, can we immediately begin booking the resort studios too?


----------



## Duckbug.Ducktales

Bjaiken77 said:


> To me, financing is a fine decision for some, especially if you can pay it off early.


Yeah, especially if paid within, maybe, 2 years or less because at least you can say you stayed ahead of price pp increases. But the interest really starts to pile up and outpace increases after that.


AvidDisReader said:


> My wife had just booked a cash room when we received one of these.  Immediately canceled the cash reservation and took the special.  As I recall it was quite a savings at a Moderate resort instead of Value resort.





DisneyMom_3 said:


> I got one recently but it was for my mom!


Just when you think you've at least heard about most everything Disney... what a cool thing it would be to get one such offer, we love trying out new resorts. Is there a specific email list one has to join?


----------



## Her Dotness

Duckbug.Ducktales said:


> Just when you think you've at least heard about most everything Disney... what a cool thing it would be to get one such offer, we love trying out new resorts. Is there a specific email list one has to join?



Nope. It seemingly was luck...or no luck.

All I did was send Disney my email address to start getting promotional emails. Might even have been requesting the DVC dvd. 

We started talking about getting into DVC a couple years before we decided to buy in, around the time I began getting them. That may have been what got me on the pin code list. Don't actually know other than hearing you had to give Disney your email addy for something to have a chance of getting a code.


----------



## TinkB278

So are they not going to release pricing prior to 3/3? It would be nice to start planning and reviewing finances so we are ready on the third.


----------



## Sandisw

TinkB278 said:


> So are they not going to release pricing prior to 3/3? It would be nice to start planning and reviewing finances so we are ready on the third.



Not according to my guide.  No details before sales start. It’s why I made three plans based on what I hope to buy and potential pricing.

Did the best case scenario using RIV price of $207 and went from there.  We know we will not buy right now if it comes out at $255 because we won’t be buying enough for any incentives..

However, I will be SHOCKED…to see that as base price.


----------



## Einstein509

Sandisw said:


> Nope…not Disney, and not with with current company either..so I am going to leave it there.


I've said this before and I'll say it again.  I have a hard time believing that if Disney has so many secrets on the way they do things (including DVD) that these things have not been spilled somewhere by this point.  There are leaks everywhere, in government, in business, so why are folks not talking?  There are so many anonymous forums out there today and they are certainly being used.

I get the loyalty piece, but not everyone is loyal and certainly some are disgruntled.  Just weird that the information is not out there.

I tend to side with NuHusky123 in that there must be some sort of agreement that CMs are part of that will bring the wrath of god upon them if they spill the beans......and maybe they're also not allowed to talk about the agreement.....we don't talk about Bruno.


----------



## DonMacGregor

Einstein509 said:


> There are leaks everywhere, in government, in business, so why are folks not talking?



But by your own logic, NDA’s in government and business don’t keep secrets either, so the argument that an NDA is keeping Disney airtight is somewhat contradictory to those facts.


----------



## SusieQ93

Einstein509 said:


> I've said this before and I'll say it again.  I have a hard time believing that if Disney has so many secrets on the way they do things (including DVD) that these things have not been spilled somewhere by this point.  There are leaks everywhere, in government, in business, so why are folks not talking?  There are so many anonymous forums out there today and they are certainly being used.
> 
> I get the loyalty piece, but not everyone is loyal and certainly some are disgruntled.  Just weird that the information is not out there.
> 
> I tend to side with NuHusky123 in that there must be some sort of agreement that CMs are part of that will bring the wrath of god upon them if they spill the beans......and maybe they're also not allowed to talk about the agreement.....we don't talk about Bruno.


I don’t think the CMs who work for DVC really care to divulge the information on the internet. I mean why would they? To what end? Just to gossip? I’m going to guess that most of them are doing their jobs and living their lives and not really thinking about this as hot gossip that they need to spill. Aside from people on these boards, are there that many people out there who really care about the details of DVC’s next release? And why would someone risk their job just to leak some relatively minor info on a board to super fans?


----------



## Her Dotness

SusieQ93 said:


> Aside from people on these boards, are there that many people out there who really care about the details of DVC’s next release?



Nope. Next to none at all, in fact.

I'll go one step further and assert there aren't even that many on these boards who care that the forthcoming resort is VGF.


----------



## Einstein509

DonMacGregor said:


> But by your own logic, NDA’s in government and business don’t keep secrets either, so the argument that an NDA is keeping Disney airtight is somewhat contradictory to those facts.


Good point.....maybe it's something other than an NDA.  I don't know.  All I'm pointing out is that it's weird that we're not hearing more.


----------



## Einstein509

SusieQ93 said:


> I don’t think the CMs who work for DVC really care to divulge the information on the internet. I mean why would they? To what end? Just to gossip? I’m going to guess that most of them are doing their jobs and living their lives and not really thinking about this as hot gossip that they need to spill. Aside from people on these boards, are there that many people out there who really care about the details of DVC’s next release? And why would someone risk their job just to leak some relatively minor info on a board to super fans?


I don't agree.  First, every time there is a Reddit dish on Disney, it actually makes it to main stream media.  Disney is a big deal and it touches a lot of people.  So if there is a spill of information, it actually does make the news.  Just do a search and you'll see.

Second, as far as people losing their jobs, Disney is a huge company with a revolving door for employees.  So there are plenty of people that worked in different departments or divisions that are no longer employees.  So they're not losing anything by talking.

We have all sorts of information on how other companies do business.  The most recent example is Tik Tok videos on how McDonald's prepares certain foods (just an example).  Those videos have gone viral.  Whenever you attach the word "secret" to a company and post information, it gets attention.  So again, why are more people not talking?  It's just weird.


----------



## nuhusky123

Einstein509 said:


> Good point.....maybe it's something other than an NDA.  I don't know.  All I'm pointing out is that it's weird that we're not hearing more.


i always suspected the tunnels under wdw were used for more than moving cast members out of sight.

everyone who works for Disney have to surrender their first born as collateral and stored in the tunnels for safe keeping


----------



## DonMacGregor

My entire family, with the exception of DW, has worked for or currently works for Disney, myself included (11 years with the Mouse in the 80's and 90's). Both my sisters worked for Disney (one still does, going on 32 years), my son did while in college, and my dad did too after he retired (loved the parks and worked Steam Trains and Main Street Vehicles part time). None of us ever had anything even remotely resembling an NDA. I've had several since of course.

To this day, if I share some exciting news I found on WDWNews, MiceChat, or some other site with the group, my sister invariably already knows about it, but just didn't bother to tell us. Even the return of the Electrical Parade with its new final float didn't get a heads-up from her, and we LOVE us some Electrical Parade.

I don't know what it is, whether it's just the culture of being part of the magic and wanting to maintain the surprise and wonder, general disinterest in sharing with outsiders (because CM's are a tight bunch like few others) or what, but I think for the rank and file CM's who aren't feeding a blogger or some other social media, they just aren't interested in blabbing. Especially if they've been asked not to. For many, having knowledge of what's behind the curtain and knowing few others have that knowledge is special, and an understood and cherished privilege.


----------



## SusieQ93

Einstein509 said:


> I don't agree.  First, every time there is a Reddit dish on Disney, it actually makes it to main stream media.  Disney is a big deal and it touches a lot of people.  So if there is a spill of information, it actually does make the news.  Just do a search and you'll see.
> 
> Second, as far as people losing their jobs, Disney is a huge company with a revolving door for employees.  So there are plenty of people that worked in different departments or divisions that are no longer employees.  So they're not losing anything by talking.
> 
> We have all sorts of information on how other companies do business.  The most recent example is Tik Tok videos on how McDonald's prepares certain foods (just an example).  Those videos have gone viral.  Whenever you attach the word "secret" to a company and post information, it gets attention.  So again, why are more people not talking?  It's just weird.


Yes, but you’re talking about bigger things than pricing on DVC. I’ve seen the many Buzzfeed type articles of like “Former Cast Members Spill Secrets!” (Spoiler they’re never that interesting). I agree there is an appetite for that stuff. It sounds like we’re not referring to the same type of thing. Im specifically referring to pricing for the new VGF. I don’t think there is a big appetite for that information to be spilled. Buzzfeed certainly isn’t going to do an article on that. I just don’t think there’s any reason for a CM to dish that info. It’s just not that exciting except to the few on this board. But that’s just my perspective.


----------



## Bjaiken77

SusieQ93 said:


> Yes, but you’re talking about bigger things than pricing on DVC. I’ve seen the many Buzzfeed type articles of like “Former Cast Members Spill Secrets!” (Spoiler they’re never that interesting). I agree there is an appetite for that stuff. It sounds like we’re not referring to the same type of thing. Im specifically referring to pricing for the new VGF. I don’t think there is a big appetite for that information to be spilled. Buzzfeed certainly isn’t going to do an article on that. I just don’t think there’s any reason for a CM to dish that info. It’s just not that exciting except to the few on this board. But that’s just my perspective.



This news wouldn’t exactly land on TMZ, but there are at least enough people interested to where several webpages, podcasts, and social media pages have done well and gained a fairly substantial number of followers.  I’m just surprised given the times.  I mean, people on these boards are also the most likely to know a CM with the insider information.  Still, it does not get pulled and/or posted.  It’s just impressive how they keep it under wraps.


----------



## SusieQ93

Einstein509 said:


> Second, as far as people losing their jobs, Disney is a huge company with a revolving door for employees.  So there are plenty of people that worked in different departments or divisions that are no longer employees.  So they're not losing anything by talking.


Also, on this piece, depending on the information a former CM shares, like say about things in development, Disney could actually sue that person. Not saying they would, but they could. Even as a former CM, I wouldn’t want to play with that. Now if it’s something small, like where they buy their churros, probably not. But something big like unreleased information from imagineering, I think it’s entirely possible. I work for a small financial firm. An employee came over from a different firm and continued using spreadsheets that were proprietary to their former employer. Somehow the former employer found out and our office received a cease and desist notice and threat of legal action. It can happen. Not saying it will, but it can.


----------



## SusieQ93

Bjaiken77 said:


> This news wouldn’t exactly land on TMZ, but there are at least enough people interested to where several webpages, podcasts, and social media pages have done well and gained a fairly substantial number of followers.  I’m just surprised given the times.  I mean, people on these boards are also the most likely to know a CM with the insider information.  Still, it does not get pulled and/or posted.  It’s just impressive how they keep it under wraps.


Oh yes, I follow lots of the IG accounts, podcasts, etc. there’s definitely an interest in Disney and Disney news. My comment must have been unclear, I’m not saying people aren’t interested in Disney, this is just a bit of obscure news that I don’t know why anyone would care enough to leak it. Most of the reputable Disney news sites and influencer accounts avoid publishing rumors and wait until things are
 Disney official. There is at least one pretty popular site that I will not name that doesn’t have a great deal of credibility because they’re always posting rumors that come to be false. It kills their credibility and loses followers I think.


----------



## BeachClub2014

I'm only interested because of this thread. We are now into page 103 of the "Great VGF2 Pricing Debate" and I've read every doggone message. Heck, I think I even made a prediction on the price 30 or 40 pages ago. All of this and I have no real interest in VGF, either one or two (no offense to those that do, it's a marvelous resort). 

I need a hobby other than DVC!


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

BeachClub2014 said:


> I'm only interested because of this thread. We are now into page 103 of the "Great VGF2 Pricing Debate" and I've read every doggone message. Heck, I think I even made a prediction on the price 30 or 40 pages ago. All of this and I have no real interest in VGF, either one or two (no offense to those that do, it's a marvelous resort).
> 
> I need a hobby other than DVC!


I’m only interested because of the implications for the Disneyland one next year. I am not buying VGF unless it’s priced so absurdly low it would sell out in a week.


----------



## Nutbean

SusieQ93 said:


> My comment must have been unclear, I’m not saying people aren’t interested in Disney, this is just a bit of obscure news that I don’t know why anyone would care enough to leak it.



You must not frequent the Disney Dining page where people are foaming at the mouth to know the details of “free” dining before it drops and the ones with the scoop are treated like Gods!


----------



## SusieQ93

Nutbean said:


> You must not frequent the Disney Dining page where people are foaming at the mouth to know the details of “free” dining before it drops and the ones with the scoop are treated like Gods!


 nope! I don’t. I’ll obviously take the dining plan if it’s free, but it’s too much food and too much thought. I like the lounges, sometimes I want an app for dinner, not an entree, etc. something for everyone. But my focus is all on DVC at the minute.


----------



## Jimmy Geppetto

Einstein509 said:


> Good point.....maybe it's something other than an NDA.  I don't know.  All I'm pointing out is that it's weird that we're not hearing more.



If one guide spills the beans… it makes every other guide’s job hell.  The endless calls without being able to veer from the script. I mean they are probably dealing with this now… can only imagine how exhausting it would be if it got out.  And what do they gain from spilling?  Not a thing but a headache.


----------



## Einstein509

Bjaiken77 said:


> This news wouldn’t exactly land on TMZ, but there are at least enough people interested to where several webpages, podcasts, and social media pages have done well and gained a fairly substantial number of followers.  I’m just surprised given the times.  I mean, people on these boards are also the most likely to know a CM with the insider information.  Still, it does not get pulled and/or posted.  It’s just impressive how they keep it under wraps.


Exactly!  There is interest.  We are talking about VGF2 pricing on this thread and I know some believe it's a small group out there that's interested, but there are similar venues mentioned above for information dedicated to just DVC with lots of followers.

That said, there are even more people interested in the resale ROFR process and how that works since that's broader than just VGF2, but no one really understands why Disney takes some contracts and doesn't others.  I mentioned this in another post, that all the speculation on our part never resulted in someone who actually worked in that department sharing how the process works.


----------



## macman123

I think they are likely to be the same price as RIV $207pp with incentives.


----------



## DKZB

Wow! What a time to launch a high priced luxury product into the market as geopolitical tensions are rising quickly. I think that DVC has set the price and is unlikely to change it as a result but curious on thoughts...


----------



## SusieQ93

DKZB said:


> Wow! What a time to launch a high priced luxury product into the market as geopolitical tensions are rising quickly. I think that DVC has set the price and is unlikely to change it as a result but curious on thoughts...


Yeah, not gonna lie, it gives me pause….it will be a little longer before we can buy because we’re not current owners. I’ll definitely be watching closely in the next month.


----------



## kdm31091

I feel like the base price will be higher than RIV but incentives will bring it down, if you buy enough points. That said I think you are getting a lot less flexibility for your money with VGF due to studios only. The original building has more than that but it will be harder to get them with so many more owners.


----------



## nuhusky123

kdm31091 said:


> I feel like the base price will be higher than RIV but incentives will bring it down, if you buy enough points


No way, inflation is about to go off the charts


----------



## dfan_welcomehomeall_19

One week to go!


----------



## SleeplessInTO

I am both fearful and greedy. Do I buy!!?? 

Got the go ahead from DH to buy 150 points at GFV if the price is below $255/pt.


----------



## Jelly563

So if VGF2 comes in at $207 (as this thread believes) what does that do to ALL of the resale contracts listed above that price ?   I would think they get taken down / dropped. Then all of the other contracts will also have to dip because so many of them arent too far behind VGF in their inflated price. The whole resale system will blow up. And all those pretentious sales guides will be pissed off over their reduced commissions.    Armageddon ensues


----------



## nuhusky123

Jelly563 said:


> So if VGF2 comes in at $207 (as this thread believes) what does that do to ALL of the resale contracts listed above that price ?   I would think they get taken down / dropped. Then all of the other contracts will also have to dip because so many of them arent too far behind VGF in their inflated price. The whole resale system will blow up. And all those pretentious sales guides will be pissed off over their reduced commissions.    Armageddon ensues


Any resale contract price will adjust up or down based on where direct ends up. If direct is $207 I’d expect gfv resale belongs in the $160 and below range

As to other resorts, no, resale prices will not be impacted. Those are sold out resorts or in the case of riv already priced accordingly


----------



## SleeplessInTO

Jelly563 said:


> So if VGF2 comes in at $207 (as this thread believes) what does that do to ALL of the resale contracts listed above that price ?   I would think they get taken down / dropped. Then all of the other contracts will also have to dip because so many of them arent too far behind VGF in their inflated price. The whole resale system will blow up. And all those pretentious sales guides will be pissed off over their reduced commissions.    Armageddon ensues


I don’t know about that. Resale seems like a volume business to me. Assuming commission is 9%, if the price of a contract drops by $5,000 that’s only a change of $450 in the commission. But a lower price may attract more buyers, increasing the number of people able to afford a resale contract.

I have no knowledge at all of the resale side of being a guide. I just feel like moving inventory is more important than selling it for as high a price as possible.


----------



## Paul Stupin

Jelly563 said:


> So if VGF2 comes in at $207 (as this thread believes) what does that do to ALL of the resale contracts listed above that price ?   I would think they get taken down / dropped. Then all of the other contracts will also have to dip because so many of them arent too far behind VGF in their inflated price. The whole resale system will blow up. And all those pretentious sales guides will be pissed off over their reduced commissions.    Armageddon ensues


Remember, for new buyers, it’s a 150 point minimum. So a smaller point contract could retain a higher price and still represent a savings. And even higher point contracts around $180 will save $27 pp, which isn’t small change either. We might not see as much downward pressure in resale as we all initially anticipated.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

There was speculation previously about the guides being trained already vs not being trained already.

I have confirmed that guides are being trained on 3/2. I imagine we will know pricing before we go to bed that night.


----------



## Bjaiken77

Does anyone have a guess at the incentive dollar amounts and where those point breaks will be at?  I know we don’t know, but how about those guesses?

When I added on at RIV, it was $9 off at 125 points.  So that’s my guess at that point quantity.  If we go with RIV’s current pricing structure, that comes to $198/point ($207-$9=$198).  I’d be all over 125 points at $198/point direct.


----------



## SusieQ93

Bjaiken77 said:


> Does anyone have a guess at the incentive dollar amounts and where those point breaks will be at?  I know we don’t know, but how about those guesses?
> 
> When I added on at RIV, it was $9 off at 125 points.  So that’s my guess at that point quantity.  If we go with RIV’s current pricing structure, that comes to $198/point ($207-$9=$198).  I’d be all over 125 points at $198/point direct.


I have no clue. But I like your guess! Although I assume member incentives are going to be better than non-member by at least a couple dollars. Oh well, maybe when I add on at DLT later there will be good incentives


----------



## UrsulaWantsYourSoul

SusieQ93 said:


> I have no clue. But I like your guess! Although I assume member incentives are going to be better than non-member by at least a couple dollars. Oh well, maybe when I add on at DLT later there will be good incentives


I posted a few pages back what the incentives were at opening for current members for Riviera
I'm betting it will be similar.  But... we shall see!


----------



## Jelly563

I have a hard time thinking that Boardwalk or other Legacy hotels could be listed for sale higher than VGF.


----------



## LAX

dfan_welcomehomeall_19 said:


> One week to go!



Is it official that sale price will be announced a week from today?

LAX


----------



## SleeplessInTO

LAX said:


> Is it official that sale price will be announced a week from today?
> 
> LAX


Points available for purchase for current DVC members as of March 3.


----------



## DVCsloth

Best Guess $207 before incentives for current members, maybe $198 for 150 points.


----------



## Ruttangel

DKZB said:


> Wow! What a time to launch a high priced luxury product into the market as geopolitical tensions are rising quickly. I think that DVC has set the price and is unlikely to change it as a result but curious on thoughts...


I struggled to sleep last night thinking of those poor Ukrainian families, some probably Disney fans just like us. DVC seems irrelevant right now to me


----------



## nuhusky123

Jelly563 said:


> I have a hard time thinking that Boardwalk or other Legacy hotels could be listed for sale higher than VGF.


Sold out resort vs 2,000,000 new points. Apples to oranges


----------



## nuhusky123

DKZB said:


> Wow! What a time to launch a high priced luxury product into the market as geopolitical tensions are rising quickly. I think that DVC has set the price and is unlikely to change it as a result but curious on thoughts...


Inflation is the biggest risk here for dvc. Life will go on in other parts of the world. We will numb to the senseless violence in a month or two I’m afraid

sanctions will devastate the Russian economy and prices around the globe for fuel and foodstuff will increase. All of this being manageable but inflation could balloon and it’s inflation that will worry dvc and make them pause

they may try to be greedy and price gfv high as some wish. Personally I think these events solidified a low price of $207

selling gfv at $255 was going to be hard before Russian events, I’d call it impossible now as inflation increases and prices for everyday items goes up

I would not expect a base price lower than $207 as that’s the floor for dvc now. But I fully expect a base price of $207 with massive incentives


----------



## DisneyMom_3

nuhusky123 said:


> I would not expect a base price lower than $207 as that’s the floor for dvc now. But I fully expect a base price of $207 with massive incentives



I hope you are right! 
I’m struggling to decide if I’m going to add on and if so, how many points to purchase. (I wish they would just tell us the price already! I need time to think/plan!)
If it’s $255 as some think, I’m out. If it’s $207, then I’ll add. If there are massive discounts, then I’ll add even more. I’ve tried to set a dollar amount in my head to determine how many points I buy, but I’m concerned that I might not stick to it next week with all of my excitement!


----------



## DKZB

DisneyMom_3 said:


> I would not expect a base price lower than $207 as that’s the floor for dvc now. But I fully expect a base price of $207 with massive incentives



I hope you are right! 
I’m struggling to decide if I’m going to add on and if so, how many points to purchase. (I wish they would just tell us the price already! I need time to think/plan!)
If it’s $255 as some think, I’m out. If it’s $207, then I’ll add. If there are massive discounts, then I’ll add even more. I’ve tried to set a dollar amount in my head to determine how many points I buy, but I’m concerned that I might not stick to it next week with all of my excitement! 
[/QUOTE]

Personally, I think there is too much risk and uncertainty to justify a price higher that $207 less incentives at this point. I think I am not alone in suddenly having second thoughts as to whether I want to buy more points at this time!


----------



## nuhusky123

DKZB said:


> I hope you are right!
> I’m struggling to decide if I’m going to add on and if so, how many points to purchase. (I wish they would just tell us the price already! I need time to think/plan!)
> If it’s $255 as some think, I’m out. If it’s $207, then I’ll add. If there are massive discounts, then I’ll add even more. I’ve tried to set a dollar amount in my head to determine how many points I buy, but I’m concerned that I might not stick to it next week with all of my excitement!



Personally, I think there is too much risk and uncertainty to justify a price higher that $207 less incentives at this point. I think I am not alone in suddenly having second thoughts as to whether I want to buy more points at this time!
[/QUOTE]
Given world events and inflation I am planning on making sure I have plenty of cash on hand and any dvc purchase coming from excess funds

squeaking by on fumes to buy dvc would be a really bad idea as who knows what prices for basic necessities will be in six months


----------



## lowlight

Jelly563 said:


> I have a hard time thinking that Boardwalk or other Legacy hotels could be listed for sale higher than VGF.



I think with what we’ve seen with BLT, I’d imagine they are going to pick a different sold out resort every quarter to ROFR and sell at a discount.


----------



## Bjaiken77

UrsulaWantsYourSoul said:


> I posted a few pages back what the incentives were at opening for current members for Riviera
> I'm betting it will be similar.  But... we shall see!



Thanks!  I went back and found it.  I did the math because I’m more of a price per point guy.  If I were to add on at Riviera, based on their incentives and the amount of points I want to buy, 175 would have been my sweet spot.

That’s what makes me nervous and keep saving for VGF.  If I end up buying, I want to buy at a good point level that allows me to maximize incentives.  That may end up being slightly more points than I originally wanted or intended.


----------



## Bjaiken77

Jelly563 said:


> I have a hard time thinking that Boardwalk or other Legacy hotels could be listed for sale higher than VGF.



I agree, which is why I think so many people are excited about VGF. I wasn’t in DVC when VGF went on sale. CCV and RIV were the two on sale at the time. Fortunately, I really like RIV.

I would have been interested in buying VGF if it were on sale as the promoted property at the time of my buy in.  It wasn’t, so it didn’t make sense financially.  This is like a 2nd chance for those who missed out.


----------



## harmon54

My guide just told me to keep an open mind! . Not sure what that means!


----------



## Marionnette

harmon54 said:


> My guide just told me to keep an open mind! . Not sure what that means!


That's an interesting caveat.


----------



## Sandisw

harmon54 said:


> My guide just told me to keep an open mind! . Not sure what that means!



Hmmm, me either.  Have you discussed with them your hope for price? Or do you have an April UY?

Trying to think about all it could be.  6 days to go!!!


----------



## harmon54

Sandisw said:


> Hmmm, me either.  Have you discussed with them your hope for price? Or do you have an April UY?
> 
> Trying to think about all it could be.  6 days to go!!!


Nope didn’t discuss price - discussed purchasing BLT and have a March use year so needed to purchase soon to get the extra points but we decided that was not the resort for us.  I wanted to look at resorts that have studios that sleep 5 - we already own SSR and AKV for 1 bedrooms- and I guess Grand Floridian fits that but since I passed on BLT she probably knows I wouldn’t pay $255!


----------



## Bjaiken77

harmon54 said:


> My guide just told me to keep an open mind! . Not sure what that means!


Ha…that’s funny.  I tend to be pretty closed minded when it comes to spending the level of money associated with DVC.


----------



## Sandisw

harmon54 said:


> Nope didn’t discuss price - discussed purchasing BLT and have a March use year so needed to purchase soon to get the extra points but we decided that was not the resort for us.  I wanted to look at resorts that have studios that sleep 5 - we already own SSR and AKV for 1 bedrooms- and I guess Grand Floridian fits that but since I passed on BLT she probably knows I wouldn’t pay $255!



Interesting for sure.  Sounds like some level of a surprise. Could it be price? Could it be not all UYs will get points?

One more statement to try and dissect!! Lol


----------



## Her Dotness

harmon54 said:


> My guide just told me to keep an open mind! . Not sure what that means!



My guess is Disney is seeing the dismay expressed on various forums that the price may be higher than RIV's.

They're undoubtedly also aware that people are everything from unhappy to outraged by the recent push to charge more for lots less.

We live in interesting times.


----------



## Bjaiken77

One way or the other, I think I can speak for a lot of people and say we can’t wait for this to be over.


----------



## SusieQ93

harmon54 said:


> My guide just told me to keep an open mind! . Not sure what that means!


Interesting comment. Wonder what it means. At this point with everything going on, if it’s higher than $207 pp, I’m going to wait on DLT. I’ve been on the fence anyway. I’ve been thinking of buying a small DLT add on later, but if VGF is priced too high, I’ll just buy at DLT. Of course people have crazy price predictions for that too (that could be true idk). All that to say DVC is a want not a need. I’ll continue to go on Disney vacations even it I never purchase. For me personally it still needs to be priced right to interest me. I don’t think I’m very open minded about it


----------



## Bjaiken77

SusieQ93 said:


> Interesting comment. Wonder what it means. At this point with everything going on, if it’s higher than $207 pp, I’m going to wait on DLT. I’ve been on the fence anyway. I’ve been thinking of buying a small DLT add on later, but if VGF is priced too high, I’ll just buy at DLT. Of course people have crazy price predictions for that too (that could be true idk). All that to say DVC is a want not a need. I’ll continue to go on Disney vacations even it I never purchase. For me personally it still needs to be priced right to interest me. I don’t think I’m very open minded about it



I may not end up buying either.  It’s too hard to conduct a financial analysis and determine value without a price.  I remain hopeful and interested, but I really have no clue what it’s going to be.


----------



## lowlight

harmon54 said:


> My guide just told me to keep an open mind! . Not sure what that means!



Yes, I’m very open to not purchasing.  They can either bolster the resale market or give it a direct hit with pricing.  At least we will know some of their long term strategy after this.


----------



## RoseGold

Oh boy.  Open-minded, eh?

I guess all those kiosks are going to open the people's minds to the possibilities...

I think it will be interesting to have a new element that hasn't been in the DVC pitch in a long time, which is nothing new announced.  Maybe they can pitch this as FOMO.  Better buy now before we have nothing...


----------



## Sandisw

SusieQ93 said:


> Interesting comment. Wonder what it means. At this point with everything going on, if it’s higher than $207 pp, I’m going to wait on DLT. I’ve been on the fence anyway. I’ve been thinking of buying a small DLT add on later, but if VGF is priced too high, I’ll just buy at DLT. Of course people have crazy price predictions for that too (that could be true idk). All that to say DVC is a want not a need. I’ll continue to go on Disney vacations even it I never purchase. For me personally it still needs to be priced right to interest me. I don’t think I’m very open minded about it



I am still holding firm that I will be happy and adding on the 100 to 125!


----------



## SusieQ93

Bjaiken77 said:


> I may not end up buying either.  It’s too hard to conduct a financial analysis and determine value without a price.  I remain hopeful and interested, but I really have no clue what it’s going to be.


Yeah, I think all the waiting has gotten old too, lol. I’m tired of wondering about the details. But I’ve done that to myself by reading this board as a hobby


----------



## Her Dotness

SusieQ93 said:


> But I’ve done that to myself by reading this board as a hobby



I like that label better than fixation, attachment or addiction.

That one's for me--it's just a hobby.


----------



## Bjaiken77

SusieQ93 said:


> Yeah, I think all the waiting has gotten old too, lol. I’m tired of wondering about the details. But I’ve done that to myself by reading this board as a hobby



I did a REALLY good job of staying off this thread until it got close.  Then, all my neurotic tendencies were released


----------



## Bjaiken77

Sandisw said:


> I am still holding firm that I will be happy and adding on the 100 to 125!


This is a good way to be, and I wish I could be more like you.  At 100-125 points, it’s not going to matter a whole lot.  And it’ll be my 3rd DVC contract, so I have points.  I’m just a sucker for a deal.  I keep thinking: What happens if they have a major price break at 200 points?  What will I do?


----------



## lowlight

Bjaiken77 said:


> This is a good way to be, and I wish I could be more like you.  At 100-125 points, it’s not going to matter a whole lot.  And it’ll be my 3rd DVC contract, so I have points.  I’m just a sucker for a deal.  I keep thinking: What happens if they have a major price break at 200 points?  What will I do?


This is the argument I have with my wife all the time.  “But if I spend 100 dollars more I get 25 percent off”.  If you don’t spend anymore, you get 100% off what you didn’t want to spend.


----------



## SleeplessInTO

If my mind was any more open, my brains would fall out. Maybe that’s what my guide is counting on lol.


----------



## Sandisw

Bjaiken77 said:


> This is a good way to be, and I wish I could be more like you.  At 100-125 points, it’s not going to matter a whole lot.  And it’ll be my 3rd DVC contract, so I have points.  I’m just a sucker for a deal.  I keep thinking: What happens if they have a major price break at 200 points?  What will I do?



My guide knows I am only buying that high if it’s comparable to RIV so again, feeling good that things will break my way!


----------



## RamblinWreck

Jelly563 said:


> I have a hard time thinking that Boardwalk or other Legacy hotels could be listed for sale higher than VGF.


Weren’t they all listed higher than VGF the last time VGF was on sale?


----------



## mort1331

SleeplessInTO said:


> I am both fearful and greedy. Do I buy!!??
> 
> Got the go ahead from DH to buy 150 points at GFV if the price is below $255/pt.


so does that include the exchange rate? or dont mention it to DH.


----------



## SleeplessInTO

mort1331 said:


> so does that include the exchange rate? or dont mention it to DH.


Hoping the exchange stays around 1.28. But I won’t be the one to mention it first  

Hope you and your fam are doing well!


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

RamblinWreck said:


> Weren’t they all listed higher than VGF the last time VGF was on sale?



They might have been.  Can't recall exactly when DVC went to the really high pricing on sold out resorts to encourage purchase of the resorts they had in active sales.   It could have happened a little later when Poly was selling though,


----------



## Paul Stupin

Sandisw said:


> My guide knows I am only buying that high if it’s comparable to RIV so again, feeling good that things will break my way!


I think the new DVC regime has demonstrated over the last few months that they know how to price a product to sell. Am considering buying as many as 400 points if the incentives are good enough!


----------



## Frugal Fairy Tales

Bjaiken77 said:


> One way or the other, I think I can speak for a lot of people and say we can’t wait for this to be over.



"harmon54 said:
My guide just told me to keep an open mind! . Not sure what that means!"


Maybe it means ALL resorts will have huge incentives on March 3rd!


----------



## Bjaiken77

Paul Stupin said:


> I think the new DVC regime has demonstrated over the last few months that they know how to price a product to sell. Am considering buying as many as 400 points if the incentives are good enough!


This is exactly how I feel, and the reason I have some stress.  If DVC is willing to play ball, I may go to some great lengths to buy more points, even if that includes selling off an SSR contract I own.  That’s not what I’m intending to do, but if they are super motivated to sell, then I’ll be motivated to buy.  I don’t want to look back at this as a missed opportunity.


----------



## nuhusky123

Paul Stupin said:


> I think the new DVC regime has demonstrated over the last few months that they know how to price a product to sell. Am considering buying as many as 400 points if the incentives are good enough!


Damn that’s a lot of points, good for you!


----------



## nuhusky123

If the price is $207 do I get to say I told ya so? It is interesting there are more predictions in the low $200s as we get closer the March 3

by the same vein if it’s $255 I shall bow down to superior intellect


----------



## Sandisw

nuhusky123 said:


> If the price is $207 do I get to say I told ya so? It is interesting there are more predictions in the low $200s as we get closer the March 3
> 
> by the same vein if it’s $255 I shall bow down to superior intellect



At least in 6 days, we will know! All I know is my Disney Visas are ready to go!


----------



## DKZB

nuhusky123 said:


> If the price is $207 do I get to say I told ya so? It is interesting there are more predictions in the low $200s as we get closer the March 3
> 
> by the same vein if it’s $255 I shall bow down to superior intellect



I think the thread has accepted $207 plus incentives as the base case price prediction anything higher will be a negative surprise!


----------



## nuhusky123

DKZB said:


> I think the thread has accepted $207 plus incentives as the base case price prediction anything higher will be a negative surprise!


There have been many vocal opinions saying well north of $207. Lively but polite debate


----------



## Bjaiken77

Sandisw said:


> At least in 6 days, we will know! All I know is my Disney Visas are ready to go!



ha…me too!  I just upped the limit today by $15K in preparation.


----------



## nuhusky123

When do we expect the resort studios to be bookable?


----------



## kmedina

nuhusky123 said:


> If the price is $207 do I get to say I told ya so? It is interesting there are more predictions in the low $200s as we get closer the March 3
> 
> by the same vein if it’s $255 I shall bow down to superior intellect


My DVC guide reminded me that VGF was selling at $255 when I asked if he had any idea what the VGF2 pricing would be. Then, he said we'd have to wait and see. Sounded to me like he was hinting it would be closer to $255.


----------



## Sandisw

DKZB said:


> I think the thread has accepted $207 plus incentives as the base case price prediction anything higher will be a negative surprise!



I definitely think we have more people on the thread who have softened and willing to accept we could be looking at a comparable price to RIV.


----------



## Sandisw

kmedina said:


> My DVC guide reminded me that VGF was selling at $255 when I asked if he had any idea what the VGF2 pricing would be. Then, he said we'd have to wait and see. Sounded to me like he was hinting it would be closer to $255.



Hmm...my guide mentioned he couldn't wait to call me next week and knows I am not buying at that price.  So, I am going with closer to RIV.


----------



## DVCsloth

Sandisw said:


> Hmm...my guide mentioned he couldn't wait to call me next week and knows I am not buying at that price.  So, I am going with closer to RIV.


That makes sense, they want to sell as an alternative to Riviera. Pretty comparable resorts IMO. I do prefer VGF though.


----------



## Brian Noble

Her Dotness said:


> They're undoubtedly also aware that people are everything from unhappy to outraged by the recent push to charge more for lots less.


They do. not. care. The parks are full-to-bursting, and according to comments made during the most recent earnings call, the uptake rate of G+/ILL is higher than expected. The per-capita revenue (the amount each guest spends in the park each day, on average) was up *40%* compared to the same quarter in 2019. That's just a _phenomenal _result, and suggests that they were completely correct to further monetize the theme parks.


----------



## nuhusky123

kmedina said:


> My DVC guide reminded me that VGF was selling at $255 when I asked if he had any idea what the VGF2 pricing would be. Then, he said we'd have to wait and see. Sounded to me like he was hinting it would be closer to $255.


My read of this is the guide has no dang clue


----------



## kmedina

Sandisw said:


> Hmm...my guide mentioned he couldn't wait to call me next week and knows I am not buying at that price.  So, I am going with closer to RIV.


That would be nice. Could have been his way of underpromising and overdelivering, because I will buy VGF resale if VGF2 comes in at $255 or higher.


----------



## nuhusky123

Brian Noble said:


> They do. not. care. The parks are full-to-bursting, and according to comments made during the most recent earnings call, the uptake rate of G+/ILL is higher than expected. The per-capita revenue (the amount each guest spends in the park each day, on average) was up *40%* compared to the same quarter in 2019. That's just a _phenomenal _result, and suggests that they were completely correct to further monetize the theme parks.


What will be very interesting is how are the parks doing in two years.

I argue the parks are full because of massive never seen before pent up demand where many people didn’t take vacations due to covid. I count myself in that list and will do three trips to wdw this year when ive not gone once since covid

there Are of course those doing their once in a lifetime wdw spend all my money trips

and the final camp are those doing wdw because they want a vacation and typically go to Europe or some such locatio but for covid reasons don’t want to travel overseas

when these conditions subside will wdw demand remain, will all these non Disney fans continue to go post covid or have they been turned off because of all the penny pinching

ive got my popcorn for the 2024 fiscal year report


----------



## Her Dotness

I said: "They're undoubtedly also aware that people are everything from unhappy to outraged by the recent push to charge more for lots less."

The reply:





Brian Noble said:


> They do. not. care.



Ummm, that's what I meant in saying this in reference to the guide suggesting to "keep an open mind."

We must do that because Disney freakin' well isn't keeping one about our concerns.

And undoubtedly, we should keep an open mind as opposed to shutting off the prospect of buying more points, because the guide's job is to...well, you know.

Innerestin' times, as I said--that only Disney is really enjoying, given recent financial reports.


----------



## Nabas

Brian Noble said:


> They do. not. care. The parks are full-to-bursting, and according to comments made during the most recent earnings call, the uptake rate of G+/ILL is higher than expected. The per-capita revenue (the amount each guest spends in the park each day, on average) was up *40%* compared to the same quarter in *2019*. That's just a _phenomenal _result, and suggests that they were completely correct to further monetize the theme parks.


To be clear, for Disney's first fiscal quarter, Domestic Per Capita Guest Spending increased by *10%* from 2018 to 2019, *1%* from 2019 to 2020, and *30%* from 2020 to 2021.

So yes, it's up by more than *40%* (!!!) but it's up from 2018, not 2019.

Sorry in advance if I come across as a know-it-all.  That is not my intention.  But I did want to clarify for anyone who might be interested in the details. 

And yes, that is a phenomenal result.

What's really interesting is that Domestic hotel occupancy is still sitting at only 73%, a historically terrible number for Disney.   (In the last quarter before COVID, it was 92%.)

I'm not sure what this means for DVC, other than it might explain why VGF2 is being converted any why we might see more DVC conversions in the future.


----------



## Brian Noble

Her Dotness said:


> that's what I meant in saying this in reference to the guide suggesting to "keep an open mind."


My bad! Time to work on my reading comprehension.




Nabas said:


> yes, it's up by more than *40%* (!!!) but it's up from 2018, not 2019.


Also my bad. I either misread the quote or it was mis-transcribed.


----------



## Brian Noble

Nabas said:


> What's really interesting is that Domestic hotel occupancy is still sitting at only 73%, a historically terrible number for Disney


That could be down to staffing limitations.


----------



## Nabas

Brian Noble said:


> That could be down to staffing limitations.


I think staffing is part of it.

In addition, Disney under Chapek seems determined to stop offering hotel discounts.  So we've had big price increases and few discounts, encouraging more offsite stays.

And no doubt COVID hindered hotel occupancy in a quarter when Omicron started to spike.

Still, I really think Chapek is directing his staff to push through aggressive price increases while simultaneously pushing to reduce room discounts.

Once we are past staffing and COVID issues, much, much higher hotel prices will continue to impact hotel occupancy.

I suspect that VGF2 is simply the first of several post-COVID DVC conversions.


----------



## DisneyMom_3

Nabas said:


> I'm not sure what this means for DVC, other than it might explain why VGF2 is being converted any why we might see more DVC conversions in the future.


If they would convert some rooms at Yacht, I would definitely consider adding on there! Of course, I want larger villas than just studios. So probably highly unlikely, but a girl can dream!


----------



## nuhusky123

Nabas said:


> I think staffing is part of it.
> 
> In addition, Disney under Chapek seems determined to stop offering hotel discounts.  So we've had big price increases and no discounts, encouraging more offsite stays.
> 
> And no doubt COVID hindered hotel occupancy in a quarter when Omicron started to spike.
> 
> Still, I really think Chapek is directing his staff to push through aggressive price increases while simultaneously pushing to reduce room discounts.
> 
> Once we are past staffing and COVID issues, much, much higher hotel prices will continue to impact occupancy.
> 
> I suspect that VGF2 is simply the first of several post-COVID DVC conversions.


There is our next great debate. Which hotel converts rooms to become the next resort studios. And yes this means rooms with no microwave or fridge

I’ll maintain resort studios will be the future expansion opportunity for dvc in the near term

resort studios are nothing but money makers for Disney. They can sell them as dvc and when not used by dvc members sell them for cash rates and it’s an identical setup to a hotel room. It’s literally printing cash for Disney with almost no cost. Executives must be salivating at their capex sheets and can only imagine there is a line a mile long of executives begging to be the next gfv resort studio conversion 

my vote - YC is next


----------



## SusieQ93

nuhusky123 said:


> and the final camp are those doing wdw because they want a vacation and typically go to Europe or some such locatio but for covid reasons don’t want to travel overseas
> 
> when these conditions subside will wdw demand remain, will all these non Disney fans continue to go post covid or have they been turned off because of all the penny pinching


That’s a really good point about domestic travel. I’d thought of all the other reasons you listed for why it’s so popular right now, but for some reason this last point hasn’t occurred to me. 

it will definitely be interesting to see what happens in a few years and I think we’ll see at least a bit of a leveling in demand. I do think that Disney just continues to grow in popularity. Even before all this it had become “there’s no slow time at Disney World anymore.”  My generation grew up during the Disney renaissance when Disney was insanely popular. Disney was of course popular with generations before, I just think it’s super popular with adults in the millennial/gen Z generations and more accepted that it’s not just for kids among us. I tend to find the “Disney is for kids” comments I get when I talk about going on Disney trips always come from the older age groups. I don’t want to offend anyone! I of course know there’s lots of avid Disney fans of all ages, that’s just been my personal experience. My in-laws I know find my Disney fandom (and I’m sure the fact that we got married at Disney World) ridiculous. 

As for the nickel and diming, I wonder if newer guests even realize what all was included before? Most of the time when I help coworkers and friends with trips, they have zero clue about any of the benefits/programs (like old fast pass), so maybe new guests won’t really know any better to be dissatisfied with paying for thing like Genie+ and IAS  Or about magical express, etc.


----------



## Brian Noble

Nabas said:


> Disney under Chapek seems determined to stop offering hotel discounts. So we've had big price increases and no discounts, encouraging more offsite stays.


All of his time at the helm has been during the pandemic. I wouldn’t read too much intent into anything just yet…particularly given the fact that there is a discount out right now. It’s a flat rate off so not quite as generous as the last but again…pandemic.


----------



## nuhusky123

SusieQ93 said:


> That’s a really good point about domestic travel. I’d thought of all the other reasons you listed for why it’s so popular right now, but for some reason this last point hasn’t occurred to me.
> 
> it will definitely be interesting to see what happens in a few years and I think we’ll see at least a bit of a leveling in demand. I do think that Disney just continues to grow in popularity. Even before all this it had become “there’s no slow time at Disney World anymore.”  My generation grew up during the Disney renaissance when Disney was insanely popular. Disney was of course popular with generations before, I just think it’s super popular with adults in the millennial/gen Z generations and more accepted that it’s not just for kids among us. I tend to find the “Disney is for kids” comments I get when I talk about going on Disney trips always come from the older age groups. I don’t want to offend anyone! I of course know there’s lots of avid Disney fans of all ages, that’s just been my personal experience. My in-laws I know find my Disney fandom (and I’m sure the fact that we got married at Disney World) ridiculous.
> 
> As for the nickel and diming, I wonder if newer guests even realize what all was included before? Most of the time when I help coworkers and friends with trips, they have zero clue about any of the benefits/programs (like old fast pass), so maybe new guests won’t really know any better to be dissatisfied with paying for thing like Genie+ and IAS  Or about magical express, etc.


I would like go to Asia, I have plans to do all the other Disney parks around the world and I have my hotel loyalty points set aside to afford ritz Carlton luxury for the duration of my travels. But I’m not traveling overseas until there is more certainty I won’t get stuck there

so until then, all my money goes to wdw


----------



## Nabas

Brian Noble said:


> All of his time at the helm has been during the pandemic. I wouldn’t read too much intent into anything just yet…particularly given the fact that there is a discount out right now. It’s a flat rate off so not quite as generous as the last but again…pandemic.


Chapek's reputation predates his tenure as Disney CEO.


----------



## Her Dotness

SusieQ93 said:


> As for the nickel and diming, I wonder if newer guests even realize what all was included before? Most of the time when I help coworkers and friends with trips, they have zero clue about any of the benefits/programs (like old fast pass), so maybe new guests won’t really know any better to be dissatisfied with paying for thing like Genie+ and IAS  Or about magical express, etc.



They more than likely haven't a clue what a ripoff the rest of us tend to feel Genie+, etc. are.

That's the market Disney aims for to replace us old grouches who keep moaning, "It just ain't no more what it wuz back in ol' Walt's day. Nosirree."

The newcomers and one-and-dones are likely to be better moneymakers for Disney because everything is cool and exciting, so they're a lot more eager/willing to hand over mega-bucks. Particularly if your trip will likely be the only one you can manage, you'll risk spending more than you planned or perhaps should.

People do things they know aren't smart--and that's how Disney makes money.


----------



## RamblinWreck

I called my guide to ask if she knew anything about pricing.

She told me that if I have to ask, I can’t afford it.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

Brian Noble said:


> They do. not. care. The parks are full-to-bursting, and according to comments made during the most recent earnings call, the uptake rate of G+/ILL is higher than expected. The per-capita revenue (the amount each guest spends in the park each day, on average) was up *40%* compared to the same quarter in 2019. That's just a _phenomenal _result, and suggests that they were completely correct to further monetize the theme parks.



The cautionary part is that there was almost certainly a large pent up demand.  People planned and then Disney started pricing things astronomically.  People still went because they had the plans, were fed up with staying at home or were surprised at the increases once they showed up.  But people planning in the next few years now where the pricing will be better known?  That is going to be the gauge of how smart they were.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

RamblinWreck said:


> I called my guide to ask if she knew anything about pricing.
> 
> She told me that if I have to ask, I can’t afford it.



Time for a new guide????


----------



## Her Dotness

RamblinWreck said:


> I called my guide to ask if she knew anything about pricing.
> 
> She told me that if I have to ask, I can’t afford it.



Holy Guacamole! I'd be hoping that call was monitored and recorded.

Is this a guide you've had for a while or a layoff's replacement?

They must be scraping the proverbial if she's representative of the new crop.


----------



## RamblinWreck

KAT4DISNEY said:


> Time for a new guide????


Haha sorry, I didn’t make it obvious enough that I was just joking!


----------



## DVCsloth

Her Dotness said:


> Holy Guacamole! I'd be hoping that call was monitored and recorded.
> 
> Is this a guide you've had for a while or a layoff's replacement?
> 
> They must be scraping the proverbial if she's representative of the new crop.


I would guess that it is a joke. A guide wouldn't say that.


----------



## Her Dotness

RamblinWreck said:


> Haha sorry, I didn’t make it obvious enough that I was just joking!



Kindly give the more dense of us <pointing to self> an emoji, then, please.

Frankly, believing that a guide might say that these days isn't a stretch.


----------



## SusieQ93

RamblinWreck said:


> I called my guide to ask if she knew anything about pricing.
> 
> She told me that if I have to ask, I can’t afford it.


Uh, what? That’s really rude. I can’t believe she said that…. But maybe I’m missing context. Doesn’t sound like a nice thing to say.


----------



## Redheadprincess

This is true, but how long will it last? We knot


Brian Noble said:


> They do. not. care. The parks are full-to-bursting, and according to comments made during the most recent earnings call, the uptake rate of G+/ILL is higher than expected. The per-capita revenue (the amount each guest spends in the park each day, on average) was up *40%* compared to the same quarter in 2019. That's just a _phenomenal _result, and suggests that they were completely correct to further monetize the theme parks.


This is true, but how long will it last?  Inflation is high, but at sometime it will burst.  Also, this extra spending could be contributed to covid fatigue and pent up demand for vacations.  Will it still be like this in 2 years?


----------



## SusieQ93

RamblinWreck said:


> Haha sorry, I didn’t make it obvious enough that I was just joking!


Lol. Ooooh. Ok. I was a bit shocked


----------



## SusieQ93

nuhusky123 said:


> I would like go to Asia, I have plans to do all the other Disney parks around the world and I have my hotel loyalty points set aside to afford ritz Carlton luxury for the duration of my travels. But I’m not traveling overseas until there is more certainty I won’t get stuck there
> 
> so until then, all my money goes to wdw


Asian parks are on my list too. We were planning a trip, then the pandemic happened, then we decided to have a baby  so now it’s going to be a minute before we can get to Asia. At least a lot of the new development like at the Tokyo parks will be all done. Although there’s always something new coming. I agree nightmare scenario to be stuck overseas.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

Redheadprincess said:


> This is true, but how long will it last? We knot
> 
> This is true, but how long will it last?  Inflation is high, but at sometime it will burst.  Also, this extra spending could be contributed to covid fatigue and pent up demand for vacations.  Will it still be like this in 2 years?


Europe is still off the table for most. Disney will be booming for the next couple of years, at least.


----------



## Sandisw

5 days to go!!!!!


----------



## nuhusky123

Sandisw said:


> 5 days to go!!!!!


next week will be very interesting. I was able to grab a gfv studio for five nights in sept this am.  Its not the resort studio but at least it’s gfv


----------



## Brian Noble

Redheadprincess said:


> This is true, but how long will it last?


Every time prices go up, the refrain is the same: "This time they've gone too far!" Obviously there is a breaking point somewhere, but so far Disney has been very adept at staying under it.

And, we know what will happen if things cool off due to external factors, because we've seen it before---after 9/11 and during the Great Recession the discounts and promotions came out in full force. I remember the "good old days" (I think post-9/11) when they offered buy-four-get-seven on resort packages.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

Brian Noble said:


> That could be down to staffing limitations.


It’s *absolutely* staffing. Even at open resorts they don’t have enough housekeepers to open all the rooms. It’s why they have minimum stays for cash rooms even when calling right now (BVTC agents could historically override online/TA limits).

That’s not speculation or a guess, that is knowledge of what’s happening from people who work there.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

Nabas said:


> Once we are past staffing and COVID issues, much, much higher hotel prices will continue to impact hotel occupancy.


Disney Hotel prices writ large have increased about 4% a year the last several years. Significant, but not the outrageous double digit annual leaps they took in the 2007-2015 era.

The problem now is

1) that’s an average, but specific seasons (fall and late spring) are increasing a LOT while summer is basically flat, so some people are seeing 10% increases and you hear a lot about them

2) most people don’t go every year, and 3 years of 4% increases on an $800 base is $100. Combine that with a smaller discount due to the lack of housekeepers keeping rooms closed and suddenly you’re paying $1400 more for a 7 night stay that you’re booking maybe 26 months after your last one and it feels crazy.


----------



## nuhusky123

I’ve found something we can all agree on….

4 more sleeps


----------



## rubybutt

nuhusky123 said:


> I’ve found something we can all agree on….
> 
> 4 more sleeps


Thats more like 7 more sleeps for me.  Gots to have me naps.


----------



## lowlight

Brian Noble said:


> Every time prices go up, the refrain is the same: "This time they've gone too far!" Obviously there is a breaking point somewhere, but so far Disney has been very adept at staying under it.
> 
> And, we know what will happen if things cool off due to external factors, because we've seen it before---after 9/11 and during the Great Recession the discounts and promotions came out in full force. I remember the "good old days" (I think post-9/11) when they offered buy-four-get-seven on resort packages.



I don't think anyone has ever accused Disney of being stupid.  Short-sighted and greedy, yes, but definitely not stupid.


----------



## DisDad-

KAT4DISNEY said:


> Time for a new guide????



i have to agree. I don’t think that guides response was appropriate. I’d look for a new one.


----------



## Sandisw

DisDad- said:


> i have to agree. I don’t think that guides response was appropriate. I’d look for a new one.



It was a joke!! Lol


----------



## SusieQ93

Sandisw said:


> It was a joke!! Lol


 I didn’t get it was a joke either until I saw later on the thread. Then I was like “of course it was a joke, no employee would say such a thing.”  sarcasm tends to get lost in translation via text…I’m also just gullible.


----------



## Her Dotness

Sandisw said:


> It was a joke!! Lol



Maybe we need one of those little sign emoji saying, "Joke Alert!"

I sure did on that one. Oh, well...won't be the last time.


----------



## nuhusky123

All joking aside anyone second guessing buying due to russia potentially expanding the war beyond ukraine?

is The money better served as cash reserve and what will happen to prices if this becomes more than it is. To say there is an extreme amount of uncertainty is an understatement


----------



## Sandisw

nuhusky123 said:


> All joking aside anyone second guessing buying due to russia potentially expanding the war beyond ukraine?
> 
> is The money better served as cash reserve and what will happen to prices if this becomes more than it is. To say there is an extreme amount of uncertainty is an understatement



Nope! Cant wait for my call!


----------



## SusieQ93

nuhusky123 said:


> All joking aside anyone second guessing buying due to russia potentially expanding the war beyond ukraine?
> 
> is The money better served as cash reserve and what will happen to prices if this becomes more than it is. To say there is an extreme amount of uncertainty is an understatement


Two things. What is happening in Ukraine is devastating and horrible. I feel so badly for the people there and worried for them. And as always when various horrors are going on in the world, completely helpless. Even talking about DVC feels a bit gauche. But what are we supposed to do? 

Second, yes. What is happening is extremely scary and I have no idea how it ends at this point. Of course, I’m no foreign policy expert either. So yes, I have pause. I won’t rush to just spend my money. There will be time. It doesn’t need to be purchased the day it comes out. I don’t think there’s ever one day only incentives or pricing. As excited as we all are, I’m perfectly comfortable to wait a bit to see how things play out.


----------



## Her Dotness

Not excited much at all myself. We weren't planning to buy direct.

Got a resale in process and will see how that turns out.


----------



## Skicks35

Question for Existing Blue card members: 

The current rationale to buy more direct points Thursday is that (with the assumption that the price comes in at $207) it is relatively not much higher than current resale prices, so it makes it worth it.  That said, wouldn't we expect resale prices to fall if the direct price is in fact $207?  Therefore, if you are already a blue card member, wouldn't the only true advantage of adding direct would be to be able to use these points at Riviera (and at any future resorts) since we already have blue card benefits?  Again, this assumes that resale prices do decrease over time.  I suppose there's also something to be said about having your points quicker and not having to worry about ROFR or the unknowns of resale (when the "right" contract will come along, etc).

Just random musings while we wait for Thursday..


----------



## Sandisw

Skicks35 said:


> Question for Existing Blue card members:
> 
> The current rationale to buy more direct points Thursday is that (with the assumption that the price comes in at $207) it is relatively not much higher than current resale prices, so it makes it worth it.  That said, wouldn't we expect resale prices to fall if the direct price is in fact $207?  Therefore, if you are already a blue card member, wouldn't the only true advantage of adding direct would be to be able to use these points at Riviera (and at any future resorts) since we already have blue card benefits?  Again, this assumes that resale prices do decrease over time.  I suppose there's also something to be said about having your points quicker and not having to worry about ROFR or the unknowns of resale (when the "right" contract will come along, etc).
> 
> Just random musings while we wait for Thursday..



That is exactly why my resale days are done. I love RIV and want the unrestricted points.

I bought BLT in 2020 with those restrictions and sold this past summer because it just didn’t work for us.

While short term it is only RIv, in less than 20 years there is a good chance that it will also include places like BWV and BCV  that will have expired and most likely will come back as new and off limits.


----------



## SusieQ93

Sandisw said:


> That is exactly why my resale days are done. I love RIV and want the unrestricted points.
> 
> I bought BLT in 2020 with those restrictions and sold this past summer because it just didn’t work for us.
> 
> While short term it is only RIv, in less than 20 years there is a good chance that it will also include places like BWV and BCV  that will have expired and most likely will come back as new and off limits.


Yeah, plus the new Disneyland tower in the next year or two. Which I hope provides more opportunity to get into Disneyland since Grand Californian is quite difficult at 7 months.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

SusieQ93 said:


> Yeah, plus the new Disneyland tower in the next year or two. Which I hope provides more opportunity to get into Disneyland since Grand Californian is quite difficult at 7 months.



Assuming they have decided to add the same restrictions.  It's a good assumption but not a given until announced.


----------



## Skicks35

Sandisw said:


> That is exactly why my resale days are done. I love RIV and want the unrestricted points.
> 
> I bought BLT in 2020 with those restrictions and sold this past summer because it just didn’t work for us.
> 
> While short term it is only RIv, in less than 20 years there is a good chance that it will also include places like BWV and BCV  that will have expired and most likely will come back as new and off limits.


Yea, that's a good point about the longer term view.  And like I said, there's something to be said about completely unrestricted points and the ease of purchase vs resale.


----------



## Paul Stupin

Sandisw said:


> That is exactly why my resale days are done. I love RIV and want the unrestricted points.
> 
> I bought BLT in 2020 with those restrictions and sold this past summer because it just didn’t work for us.
> 
> While short term it is only RIv, in less than 20 years there is a good chance that it will also include places like BWV and BCV  that will have expired and most likely will come back as new and off limits.


Totally agree. I love Riviera also and want the ability not only to book there, but future resorts too. That's why my resale days are over as well. And re the geopolitical uncertainty, I'm not going to let short term market fluctuations stop me from buying either. I don't believe an economic apocalypse is coming. But, again, thats just my opinion. 

Ok, I have a guide question. My guide emailed me several weeks ago and told me "he'd be calling me soon," which I took to mean when sales started, which we now know is March 3.  Over the past several months I've repeatedly checked in with him expressing VGF2 interest. Rather than just wait, I emailed him last week and asked to set up a time for us to talk on March 3. He emailed me back saying that it was going to be one of the busiest days of the year, and that I should call him that day and he'd call me back. I'm a little annoyed because A), he's changing his tune, and B), I've bought hundreds of points from him, including the monumentally pricey VGF points at the sold out price of $255. He's a very nice guy, but considering that I might very well be giving him a lot of business, it didn't seem unreasonable to ask for him to call me. 

Since we're friendly but hardly best buddies, I'm wondering if I should just speak to another guide in advance who will in fact call me. Or do you think I'm being a big baby, totally overreacting, and I should just give him a buzz, which is what I will probably do anyway?


----------



## nuhusky123

Paul Stupin said:


> Totally agree. I love Riviera also and want the ability not only to book there, but future resorts too. That's why my resale days are over as well. And re the geopolitical uncertainty, I'm not going to let short term market fluctuations stop me from buying either. I don't believe an economic apocalypse is coming. But, again, thats just my opinion.
> 
> Ok, I have a guide question. My guide emailed me several weeks ago and told me "he'd be calling me soon," which I took to mean when sales started, which we now know is March 3.  Over the past several months I've repeatedly checked in with him expressing VGF2 interest. Rather than just wait, I emailed him last week and asked to set up a time for us to talk on March 3. He emailed me back saying that it was going to be one of the busiest days of the year, and that I should call him that day and he'd call me back. I'm a little annoyed because A), he's changing his tune, and B), I've bought hundreds of points from him, including the monumentally pricey VGF points at the sold out price of $255. He's a very nice guy, but considering that I might very well be giving him a lot of business, it didn't seem unreasonable to ask for him to call me.
> 
> Since we're friendly but hardly best buddies, I'm wondering if I should just speak to another guide in advance who will in fact call me. Or do you think I'm being a big baby, totally overreacting, and I should just give him a buzz, which is what I will probably do anyway?


I’d call him first thing and leave a message. I’d then call dvc and get the first guide who picks up to send you a contract

fastest fingers win. the Guide you used in past purchase won’t get you any special benefits so do what is best for you. Because you are right, you are sending him $ and it’s his commission to lose

i have zero loyalty to my guide and will look out for my own interests as I am sure my guide will do the same


----------



## Sandisw

Paul Stupin said:


> Totally agree. I love Riviera also and want the ability not only to book there, but future resorts too. That's why my resale days are over as well. And re the geopolitical uncertainty, I'm not going to let short term market fluctuations stop me from buying either. I don't believe an economic apocalypse is coming. But, again, thats just my opinion.
> 
> Ok, I have a guide question. My guide emailed me several weeks ago and told me "he'd be calling me soon," which I took to mean when sales started, which we now know is March 3.  Over the past several months I've repeatedly checked in with him expressing VGF2 interest. Rather than just wait, I emailed him last week and asked to set up a time for us to talk on March 3. He emailed me back saying that it was going to be one of the busiest days of the year, and that I should call him that day and he'd call me back. I'm a little annoyed because A), he's changing his tune, and B), I've bought hundreds of points from him, including the monumentally pricey VGF points at the sold out price of $255. He's a very nice guy, but considering that I might very well be giving him a lot of business, it didn't seem unreasonable to ask for him to call me.
> 
> Since we're friendly but hardly best buddies, I'm wondering if I should just speak to another guide in advance who will in fact call me. Or do you think I'm being a big baby, totally overreacting, and I should just give him a buzz, which is what I will probably do anyway?



My guide did put me on his list to call but we did not set up a time. He just said he’d be in touch that day.  If I don’t hear from him by 11 am I of course will call anyway!!! Lol

I would just call him first thing and go from there. When you are assigned a guide, they pretty much keep them with you unless you call and expressly ask to me given someone new.


----------



## Skicks35

nuhusky123 said:


> I’d call him first thing and leave a message. I’d then call dvc and get the first guide who picks up to send you a contract
> 
> fastest fingers win. the Guide you used in past purchase won’t get you any special benefits so do what is best for you. Because you are right, you are sending him $ and it’s his commission to lose
> 
> i have zero loyalty to my guide and will look out for my own interests as I am sure my guide will do the same


I'm just curious: is there some sort of rush to make sure points are purchased ON March 3rd?  What do you mean by "fastest fingers win"?


----------



## davidl81

nuhusky123 said:


> All joking aside anyone second guessing buying due to russia potentially expanding the war beyond ukraine?
> 
> is The money better served as cash reserve and what will happen to prices if this becomes more than it is. To say there is an extreme amount of uncertainty is an understatement


Could always hedge your bets and buy a ton of Boeing and Raytheon stock.


----------



## nuhusky123

Skicks35 said:


> I'm just curious: is there some sort of rush to make sure points are purchased ON March 3rd?  What do you mean by "fastest fingers win"?


As in first guide to respond and get a contract sent over 

if my guide delays in any way I’ll not hesitate to find another guide


----------



## nuhusky123

davidl81 said:


> Could always hedge your bets and buy a ton of Boeing and Raytheon stock.


Thinking more like building a bunker


----------



## Skicks35

nuhusky123 said:


> As in first guide to respond and get a contract sent over
> 
> if my guide delays in any way I’ll not hesitate to find another guide


Ah, gotcha - good luck!


----------



## Sandisw

Skicks35 said:


> I'm just curious: is there some sort of rush to make sure points are purchased ON March 3rd?  What do you mean by "fastest fingers win"?



Not really but I am hoping to use them to upgrade a July night with them and then put back all the borrowed points I have for that trip.

The room I want is still there so buying soon helps with that. And, my CC statement date is the 2nd so waiting doesn’t need to happen for that first charge!! Lol


----------



## Skicks35

Sandisw said:


> Not really but I am hoping to use them to upgrade a July night with them and then put back all the borrowed points I have for that trip.
> 
> The room I want is still there so buying soon helps with that. And, my CC statement date is the 2nd so waiting doesn’t need to happen for that first charge!! Lol


Ah, that makes sense - obviously the quicker you could buy, the quicker you can use.  Ha, good luck!


----------



## Paul Stupin

nuhusky123 said:


> I’d call him first thing and leave a message. I’d then call dvc and get the first guide who picks up to send you a contract
> 
> fastest fingers win. the Guide you used in past purchase won’t get you any special benefits so do what is best for you. Because you are right, you are sending him $ and it’s his commission to lose
> 
> i have zero loyalty to my guide and will look out for my own interests as I am sure my guide will do the same


Good advice! I'll add one small, additional courtesy. I'll give him an hour after I call. That seems fair.


----------



## RamblinWreck

SusieQ93 said:


> I didn’t get it was a joke either until I saw later on the thread. Then I was like “of course it was a joke, no employee would say such a thing.”  sarcasm tends to get lost in translation via text…I’m also just gullible.


It was definitely my fault!

In hindsight I definitely should have made it absolutely clear.


----------



## nuhusky123

Seeing this posted on Facebook for dvc members staying onsite in march. Note this is not mine and I copy pasted from facebook, I have however seen at least two posts today on same topic so seems like this is going out to a few people


----------



## Sandisw

nuhusky123 said:


> Seeing this posted on Facebook for dvc members staying onsite in march. Note this is not mine and I copy pasted from facebook, I have however seen at least two posts today on same topic so seems like this is going out to a few people
> 
> View attachment 650664



Emailed my guide about it as I arrive March 8th!


----------



## KimMcGowan

RamblinWreck said:


> It was definitely my fault!
> 
> In hindsight I definitely should have made it absolutely clear.


For what it is worth, I immediately knew it was a joke .


----------



## Paul Stupin

nuhusky123 said:


> Seeing this posted on Facebook for dvc members staying onsite in march. Note this is not mine and I copy pasted from facebook, I have however seen at least two posts today on same topic so seems like this is going out to a few people
> 
> View attachment 650664


I want some Elderflower Limonata!


----------



## SusieQ93

RamblinWreck said:


> It was definitely my fault!
> 
> In hindsight I definitely should have made it absolutely clear.


Nah, no worries. Like I said, gullible.


----------



## Ssplashhmtn

Sandisw said:


> Emailed my guide about it as I arrive March 8th!


Please let us know what you find out?  I arrive the same week as you and also no such email…


----------



## SleeplessInTO

My guide promised to call me in the morning when sales go live. We will see if he does.


----------



## Matty B13

Unless you need the points right away to book a reservation, why would you want to buy any points on the 3rd????  Dues are prorated by the calendar year, so you would end up paying more in dues for points that you can't use till next year.  Usually for any of the discounts on points they have a timeline and DVC let you know when that is.  There is no reason except for what Sandisw has planned to buy points on the 3rd.


----------



## lowlight

Matty B13 said:


> Unless you need the point right away to book a reservation, why would you want to buy any points on the 3rd????  Dues are prorated by the calendar year, so you would end up paying more in dues for points that you can't use till next year.  Usually for any of the discounts on points they have a timeline and DVC let you know when that is.  There is no reason except for what Sandisw has planned to buy points on the 3rd.



DVC ownership is at least 50 percent emotion.


----------



## CarolMN

Paul Stupin said:


> Since we're friendly but hardly best buddies, I'm wondering if I should just speak to another guide in advance who will in fact call me. Or do you think I'm being a big baby, totally overreacting, and I should just give him a buzz, which is what I will probably do anyway?





nuhusky123 said:


> I’d call him first thing and leave a message. I’d then call dvc and get the first guide who picks up to send you a contract
> 
> fastest fingers win. the Guide you used in past purchase won’t get you any special benefits so do what is best for you. Because you are right, you are sending him $ and it’s his commission to lose
> 
> i have zero loyalty to my guide and will look out for my own interests as I am sure my guide will do the same





Matty B13 said:


> Unless you need the points right away to book a reservation, why would you want to buy any points on the 3rd????  Dues are prorated by the calendar year, so you would end up paying more in dues for points that you can't use till next year.  Usually for any of the discounts on points they have a timeline and DVC let you know when that is.  There is no reason except for what Sandisw has planned to buy points on the 3rd.


Completely agree with MattyB13!   It's not like 2 million points or any incentives are going to disappear the first day!.  Unless you need the points to book something (a studio) in VGF1, there's no reason to panic.   (And that's how these type of posts look to me).  

Better to cut the guides some slack.  It's not like they don't WANT to help everyone as soon as they can.


----------



## TCRAIG

My guide added me to her list and said she had so many she was going to send out an email with the $$ info rather than call individually.


----------



## EilonwyWanderer

nuhusky123 said:


> Seeing this posted on Facebook for dvc members staying onsite in march. Note this is not mine and I copy pasted from facebook, I have however seen at least two posts today on same topic so seems like this is going out to a few people
> 
> View attachment 650664



We got this and don't arrive till the 18th! On the one hand I was like 'oh that's nice' and on the other hand I was like '$25 does not make up for APs still not being available guys'


----------



## nuhusky123

I’m an April use year, if I can’t get 2021 points then i May not buy March 3. If I do get 2021 points that’s my urgency


----------



## Nutbean

Same. If I can’t get 2021 points, I very well may not buy at all.


----------



## Sandisw

Nutbean said:


> Same. If I can’t get 2021 points, I very well may not buy at all.



Unless you have a Feb or March UY, which will already have started their 2022 UY, you should get them.


----------



## Leight19

For those saying they want to buy day one so points available to book I was wondering how that works? If the rooms are not available in inventory at time of booking can you use the points to book other rooms? Wouldn’t this create scenario for 2022 where there is way more points in system then bookable rooms if most use years get full 2021 and 2022 points when rooms don’t exist until summer 2022?


----------



## Sandisw

Leight19 said:


> For those saying they want to buy day one so points available to book I was wondering how that works? If the rooms are not available in inventory at time of booking can you use the points to book other rooms? Wouldn’t this create scenario for 2022 where there is way more points in system then bookable rooms if most use years get full 2021 and 2022 points when rooms don’t exist until summer 2022?



The points deeded to the new building can’t be used for stays anywhere until the new rooms open for occupancy.  Any points sold that are deeded to the current building can be used immediately. 

So, nothing before summer.  Now, I am going at the end of July and based on my conversation with the guide, there is a good chance these rooms will be in inventory by then, or there is going to be a way for me to have points I can use for that trip to put back my borrowed points.

It sounded like we will not only get sales info Thursday but also the opening date for the rooms.


----------



## Nutbean

Sandisw said:


> Unless you have a Feb or March UY, which will already have started their 2022 UY, you should get them.



I have an April use year and I agree, I should get them. If, for whatever reason, I don’t, I think I would take that as a sign not to buy at all.


----------



## Paul Stupin

Nutbean said:


> I have an April use year and I agree, I should get them. If, for whatever reason, I don’t, I think I would take that as a sign not to buy at all.


I have a March UY, and I wouldn’t pass on buying just because I don’t get last year‘s points. I don’t need them and I don’t want to pay dues on them either.


----------



## CarolynFH

Paul Stupin said:


> I have a March UY, and I wouldn’t pass on buying just because I don’t get last year‘s points. I don’t need them and I don’t want to pay dues on them either.


Dues are assessed on a calendar year basis, not on UY.  No one who buys VGF direct from DVD will be paying 2021 dues, even if they're still in their 2021 UY when they buy.  Everyone who buys VGF will pay 2022 dues, prorated from the date they buy, without regard to UY.  Paying dues on "last year's points" is an issue in resale price negotiations only.


----------



## SleeplessInTO

I have a March UY also. I am willing to get a new UY in order to get 2021 points. When I do my mental Disney math, I knock $18/point off the purchase price by factoring in my “free” points and thereby justifies this endeavour.


----------



## Her Dotness

INNNteresting! Just finished watching The DIS Unplugged with segment speculating what the price will be.

Pete says has to come in higher than $255. He proposed $270 with incentives.
Amy said $260 with incentives.
Paul $225, saying higher than RIV & AUL
Marissa $255 with tiered incentives

Paul mentioned this thread's poll figures, though not the title. We're famous!


----------



## nuhusky123

Her Dotness said:


> INNNteresting! Just finished watching The DIS Unplugged with segment speculating what the price will be.
> 
> Pete says has to come in higher than $255. He proposed $270 with incentives.
> Amy said $260 with incentives.
> Paul $225, saying higher than RIV & AUL
> Marissa $255 with tiered incentives
> 
> Paul mentioned this thread's poll figures. We're famous!


They are smoking something


----------



## stwaldman

Her Dotness said:


> INNNteresting! Just finished watching The DIS Unplugged with segment speculating what the price will be.
> 
> Pete says has to come in higher than $255. He proposed $270 with incentives.
> Amy said $260 with incentives.
> Paul $225, saying higher than RIV & AUL
> Marissa $255 with tiered incentives
> 
> Paul mentioned this thread's poll figures. We're famous!


gotta keep those resale prices high as possible up until the last minute!


----------



## Ruttangel

stwaldman said:


> gotta keep those resale prices high as possible up until the last minute!


DVCRM have some very ambitious VGF listings that might need a correction next week


----------



## CarolMN

nuhusky123 said:


> They are smoking something





Ruttangel said:


> DVCRM have some very ambitious VGF listings that might need a correction next week


Same reaction to both:  I hope so!


----------



## Her Dotness

stwaldman said:


> gotta keep those resale prices high as possible up until the last minute!



Yup, a likely motivation since DVCRM just happens to be the sponsor currently.

Kinda interesting nevertheless.

Pete was also saying it's a stepping stone for pricing DLT. Which...not like that necessarily means anything. As he pointed out, Californians will buy DLT at whatever price. Bet California won't be tremendously thrilled when he and the crew land at the Grand there soon.


----------



## Paul Stupin

Her Dotness said:


> Yup, a likely motivation since DVCRM just happens to be the sponsor currently.
> 
> Kinda interesting nevertheless.
> 
> Pete was also saying it's a stepping stone for pricing DLT. Which...not like that necessarily means anything. As he pointed out, Californians will buy DLT at whatever price. Bet California won't be tremendously thrilled when he and the crew land at the Grand there soon.



I disagree that Californians will buy DLT at any cost. I live in LA, and love Disneyland, but aside from the occasional stay at VGC I’d rather own points at WDW and Aulani, which for us are more vacation destinations.


----------



## nuhusky123

Her Dotness said:


> Yup, a likely motivation since DVCRM just happens to be the sponsor currently.
> 
> Kinda interesting nevertheless.
> 
> Pete was also saying it's a stepping stone for pricing DLT. Which...not like that necessarily means anything. As he pointed out, Californians will buy DLT at whatever price. Bet California won't be tremendously thrilled when he and the crew land at the Grand there soon.


Dlt to gfv is apples to oranges. Two different parks on opposites sides of the country

sounds like an attempt to get nervous buyers to pick up a contract before the 3rd and the resale market crashes

then they get to say whoops who could have seen this coming


----------



## Sandisw

SleeplessInTO said:


> I have a March UY also. I am willing to get a new UY in order to get 2021 points. When I do my mental Disney math, I knock $18/point off the purchase price by factoring in my “free” points and thereby justifies this endeavour.



To get a new UY they will make you buy 150 points as it’s a new membership.


----------



## stwaldman

nuhusky123 said:


> Dlt to gfv is apples to oranges. Two different parks on opposites sides of the country
> 
> sounds like an attempt to get nervous buyers to pick up a contract before the 3rd and the resale market crashes
> 
> then they get to say whoops who could have seen this coming


the discussion on backpacks and popsockets is super cringe...


----------



## Sandisw

nuhusky123 said:


> They are smoking something



All I will add is that my guide knows what I want to pay and my top number of points and thinks I am going to be happy come Thursday.

I take that to mean close to RIV!


----------



## nuhusky123

stwaldman said:


> the discussion on backpacks and popsockets is super cringe...


Not to veer too far off topic who cares about the dvc backpack. I didn’t spend $30k for a cheap backpack, in fact when mine came I found it so poorly made I tossed it directly into the trash can


----------



## BeachClub2014

nuhusky123 said:


> Not to veer too far off topic who cares about the dvc backpack. I didn’t spend $30k for a cheap backpack, in fact when mine came I found it so poorly made I tossed it directly into the trash can



I do. I want mine for my recent direct purchase.


----------



## nuhusky123

So new rumor is the poly fridges are being replaced with beverage coolers in the studios. looks like the gfv fridge is here to stay and move into all studios

Cue end of world music and screaming


----------



## pkrieger2287

Her Dotness said:


> INNNteresting! Just finished watching The DIS Unplugged with segment speculating what the price will be.
> 
> Pete says has to come in higher than $255. He proposed $270 with incentives.
> Amy said $260 with incentives.
> Paul $225, saying higher than RIV & AUL
> Marissa $255 with tiered incentives
> 
> Paul mentioned this thread's poll figures, though not the title. We're famous!




Here's the link for anyone interested:  



__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498423924316676103
I've also updated the show notes to include a link to this forum.

Thanks to everyone in this thread for your insight... We will get our answers in two short days!


----------



## HIRyeDVC

pkrieger2287 said:


> Here's the link for anyone interested:
> 
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1498423924316676103
> I've also updated the show notes to include a link to this forum.
> 
> Thanks to everyone in this thread for your insight... We will get our answers in two short days!


Boy you sure got Pete fired up about this rumor. And congrats on VGC! You guys are going to love being owners there!


----------



## pkrieger2287

HIRyeDVC said:


> Boy you sure got Pete fired up about this rumor. And congrats on VGC! You guys are going to love being owners there!



I would use the word "rumor" in a very loose sense.  I can't say confirmed because DVC will never admit to this stuff... Let's just see if there are backpacks around a few months from now.  If so... someone can make me a dress out of backpacks and I'll wear it around the parks.

I can also tell you that direct guides have been fighting this decision tooth and nail.


----------



## AGP

Sandisw said:


> Not really but I am hoping to use them to upgrade a July night with them and then put back all the borrowed points I have for that trip.
> 
> The room I want is still there so buying soon helps with that. And, my CC statement date is the 2nd so waiting doesn’t need to happen for that first charge!! Lol


They will let you put back borrowed points if you buy direct?


----------



## lowlight

pkrieger2287 said:


> I would use the word "rumor" in a very loose sense.  I can't say confirmed because DVC will never admit to this stuff... Let's just see if there are backpacks around a few months from now.  If so... someone can make me a dress out of backpacks and I'll wear it around the parks.
> 
> I can also tell you that direct guides have been fighting this decision tooth and nail.


Those are 20k backpacks, that dress would be worth millions.


----------



## CarolynFH

AGP said:


> They will let you put back borrowed points if you buy direct?


No.  Sandi can modify her existing reservation to use her new VGF points.  That would free up points borrowed from other contracts (maybe different home resort), and those borrowed points would go back to the same UY as the reservation, which is normal for borrowed points.


----------



## nuhusky123

I watched the video and the argument that gfv can’t be less than pre gfv sales price is insane. they all totally fail to understand basic laws of economics and the dlt argument is 100% daft 

they all fail to acknowledge this is creating 2,000,000 new unsold points vs a sold out resort


----------



## AGP

CarolynFH said:


> No.  Sandi can modify her existing reservation to use her new VGF points.  That would free up points borrowed from other contracts (maybe different home resort), and those borrowed points would go back to the same UY as the reservation, which is normal for borrowed points.


Oh I thought once you borrowed they were stuck in this year- I didn’t realize that if you modify using different points then they would go back to the future year that you borrowed from.  I guess I don’t understand how this works!


----------



## kandlsutton

I’m counting on Sandisw and others on this thread to update the rest of us on March 3rd. Saves me a call to my guide, who is based in Hawaii.


----------



## Sandisw

AGP said:


> They will let you put back borrowed points if you buy direct?



Yes. Normally they can’t be moved back but in this case, they will since I have added on new points. The rules can be found in the Home Resort Rules and Regulations  document


----------



## Sandisw

CarolynFH said:


> No.  Sandi can modify her existing reservation to use her new VGF points.  That would free up points borrowed from other contracts (maybe different home resort), and those borrowed points would go back to the same UY as the reservation, which is normal for borrowed points.



No, they will put back my borrowed points to their original UY.  I will use my 2021 VGF points to replace the RIV and SSR points I borrowed and those will be returned to my Dec 2022 UY 

It is a benefit when you add on and have new points.  I confirmed this was still the practice the other day as well.


----------



## AGP

Sandisw said:


> No, they will put back my borrowed points to their original UY.  I will use my 2021 VGF points to replace the RIV and SSR points I borrowed and those will be returned to my Dec 2022 UY
> 
> It is a benefit when you add on and have new points.  I confirmed this was still the practice the other day as well.





Sandisw said:


> Yes. Normally they can’t be moved back but in this case, they will since I have added on new points. The rules can be found in the Home Resort Rules and Regulations  document


This is great news!  I also have some points in holding that I’d love them to let me use or take out of holding, that’d be even better but happy to at least know I could put some borrowed back


----------



## Sandisw

AGP said:


> This is great news!  I also have some points in holding that I’d love them to let me use or take out of holding, that’d be even better but happy to at least know I could put some borrowed back



I have never had holding I couldn’t use so I don’t know about that but it’s a nice benefit when getting new points!


----------



## Prince John Robin Hood

I received a survey today and the final question was whether or not I'll be adding on.  Made it clear that we may have if there were AP's still available but without there's no chance.  If the price ends up being $275+ pp then there's definitely no chance.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

I’ll repeat, my final price is $255/pt. With incentives bringing it down to $224/pt. Two days to go! DVC is not gonna leave money on the table.


----------



## bobbiwoz

Paul Stupin said:


> I have a March UY, and I wouldn’t pass on buying just because I don’t get last year‘s points. I don’t need them and I don’t want to pay dues on them either.


I have a March UY, and when VGF first went on sale, I didn’t buy as many because we did not get last years points.


----------



## DisneyMom_3

nuhusky123 said:


> Seeing this posted on Facebook for dvc members staying onsite in march. Note this is not mine and I copy pasted from facebook, I have however seen at least two posts today on same topic so seems like this is going out to a few people
> 
> View attachment 650664


Did anyone get the email that can tell me what the asterisks after Resort Studios ** and Click Here say?


----------



## SleeplessInTO

Sandisw said:


> To get a new UY they will make you buy 150 points as it’s a new membership.


I understand  Am fully prepared to buy 150 if the math works out. I’m ready for my blue card.


----------



## SleeplessInTO

I’m not terribly fussed about the backpacks. Someone’s selling two of them for $20 CAD each near me.


----------



## Her Dotness

DUH! I'm glad Paul was so gracious. I can never keep The DVC Show and The DIS Unplugged straight. 

Oh,well...they got a plug, such as it was,  and we got a visit from one of my faves. Thanks, Paul!


----------



## DebbieB

CarolynFH said:


> Dues are assessed on a calendar year basis, not on UY.  No one who buys VGF direct from DVD will be paying 2021 dues, even if they're still in their 2021 UY when they buy.  Everyone who buys VGF will pay 2022 dues, prorated from the date they buy, without regard to UY.  Paying dues on "last year's points" is an issue in resale price negotiations only.



For the new rooms, dues should be prorated from the date they open.

I doubt there will be 2021 points because the rooms did not exist as DVC in 2021.


----------



## davidl81

BWV Dreamin said:


> I’ll repeat, my final price is $255/pt. With incentives bringing it down to $224/pt. Two days to go! DVC is not gonna leave money on the table.


$207 with incentives brining it down to under $200 and maybe even lower than RIV right at first.  It’s not like RIV is selling like hotcakes, DVC is not leaving money on the table by pricing it correctly.


----------



## nuhusky123

davidl81 said:


> $207 with incentives brining it down to under $200 and maybe even lower than RIV right at first.  It’s not like RIV is selling like hotcakes, DVC is not leaving money on the table by pricing it correctly.


This is what I expect as well. If it’s $255 I’ll keep my money thank you very much Disney


----------



## CarolynFH

Sandisw said:


> No, they will put back my borrowed points to their original UY.  I will use my 2021 VGF points to replace the RIV and SSR points I borrowed and those will be returned to my Dec 2022 UY
> 
> It is a benefit when you add on and have new points.  I confirmed this was still the practice the other day as well.


Thanks - I had not heard of that benefit of buying direct. Very nice!


----------



## DonMacGregor

DebbieB said:


> For the new rooms, dues should be prorated from the date they open.
> 
> I doubt there will be 2021 points because the rooms did not exist as DVC in 2021.


That's what I've been wondering. How do they give you (for example) 150 2021 points, which represent your .XXXX% ownership in brand new, freshly minted VGF2 Unit XYZ, when Unit XYZ didn't even exist in 2021?

I mean, hypothetically, if DLT were to start selling in January 2023, then every single direct buyer asking for any UY after January would still be in their 2022 UY and entitled to 2022 points. Disney would, in effect, already have almost an entire year (or potentially hundreds of thousands) of banked points to deal with, right?


----------



## CarolynFH

DebbieB said:


> For the new rooms, dues should be prorated from the date they open.
> 
> I doubt there will be 2021 points because the rooms did not exist as DVC in 2021.


Thanks for the further clarification. I was concentrating on the issue of calendar year vs. UY for dues.


----------



## Sandisw

DonMacGregor said:


> That's what I've been wondering. How do they give you 150 2021 points, which represent your .XXXX% ownership in Unit XYZ, when Unit XYZ didn't even exist in 2021.
> 
> I mean, hypothetically, if DLT were to start selling in February 2023, then every single direct buyer asking for any UY after February would still be in their 2022 UY and entitled to 2022 points. Disney would, in effect already have an entire year (or hundreds of thousands) of banked points to deal with, right?



The points are based on UY so you are getting them for that and the new rooms will open during many UYs.

But also remember the points deeded to the new building won’t be eligible for use until the rooms open so that is how it doesn’t overload the system.

And I forgot about the dues. You won’t pay them until the opening date unless you are deeded to the current building.

I guess we will see come Thursday if they leave any UYs out.  From my conversation with my guide, who knows my UY is December it certainly sounded like I’m getting them because the majority of my 2021 UY is in 2022 when the resort opens since I want them for July.

These are also part of the same association so the resort does exist..just not the new rooms.


----------



## Marionnette

Sandisw said:


> The points are based on UY so you are getting them for that and the new rooms will open during many UYs.
> 
> But also remember the points deeded to the new building won’t be eligible for use until the rooms open so that is how it doesn’t overload the system.
> 
> And I forgot about the dues. You won’t pay them until the opening date unless you are deeded to the current building.
> 
> I guess we will see come Thursday if they leave any UYs out.  From my conversation with my guide, who knows my UY is December it certainly sounded like I’m getting them because the majority of my 2021 UY is in 20222 when the resort opens.


So if I'm understanding this correctly, if VGF2 opens in let's say August 2022, then only September, October and December UYs would get 2021 points and all others would only get 2022 points?


----------



## DonMacGregor

Sandisw said:


> The points are based on UY so you are getting them for that and the new rooms will open during many UYs.
> 
> But also remember the points deeded to the new building won’t be eligible for use until the rooms open so that is how it doesn’t overload the system.
> 
> And I forgot about the dues. You won’t pay them until the opening date unless you are deeded to the current building.
> 
> I guess we will see come Thursday if they leave any UYs out.  From my conversation with my guide, who knows my UY is December it certainly sounded like I’m getting them because the majority of my 2021 UY is in 20222 when the resort opens.


Right, I was using a brand new resort and a January opening as an extreme example. Many are speculating that DLT sales will begin sometime at the end of this year. That tower won't be ready then and there won't be any declared rooms when sales begin, so none of the points will be eligible for use, regardless of UY.


----------



## Sandisw

Marionnette said:


> So if I'm understanding this correctly, if VGF2 opens in let's say August 2022, then only September, October and December UYs would get 2021 points and all others would only get 2022 points?



I don’t know for sure but I think because the current resort exists and these rooms are the same association as the current resort it would not sense to me that 2021 points won’t be given. I have wondered about April but everything else.

I got the sense this will open earlier than later in summer too, like July so really, not sure why everyone wouldn’t get current UY points.


----------



## DonMacGregor

DonMacGregor said:


> Right, I was using a brand new resort and a January opening as an extreme example. Many are speculating that DLT sales will begin sometime at the end of this year. That tower won't be ready then and there won't be any declared rooms when sales begin, so none of the points will be eligible for use, regardless of UY.
> 
> I still don't see how they can give you 2021 points for a unit that didn't exist in 2021.


----------



## Sandisw

DonMacGregor said:


> Right, I was using a brand new resort and a January opening as an extreme example. Many are speculating that DLT sales will begin sometime at the end of this year. That tower won't be ready then and there won't be any declared rooms when sales begin, so none of the points will be eligible for use, regardless of UY.



But that is a new resort. This is not so I think it could make a difference.

I think they can because the units will exist in the 2021 UY for many so not sure why they would not exist.

Now, maybe April and June could be at risk?


----------



## DonMacGregor

Sandisw said:


> I don’t know for sure but I think because the current resort exists and these rooms are the same association as the current resort it would not sense to me that 2021 points won’t be given.


Right, but regardless of the fact that the association already exists, the deed of ownership is specific to a unit that does not exist (yet). Our points are representative of our specific ownership in that specific unit.

You're entitled to a certain number of points which represent your ownership in a specific Unit. If there is no unit, then there is no percentage of ownership.

NOTE: I do understand the difference between a calendar year for purposes of date of construction/conversion, and a UY.


----------



## Sandisw

DonMacGregor said:


> Right, but regardless of the fact that the association already exists, the deed of ownership is specific to a unit that does not exist (yet). Our points are representative of our specific ownership in that specific unit.
> 
> You're entitles to a certain number of points which represent your ownership in a Unit. If there is no unit, then there is no percentage of ownership.



Correct. But they gave March 2019 UY points to someone for RIV when that resort did not open until Dec 2019. Yes, same calendar year, but those points couldn’t be used until Dec so they had points for 9 months before opening.

Same with when I got August 2019  points when the resort didn’t open until months later.

I guess we will see!  The other possibility is that the first set of sales will be deeded to the current building for those UYs until the rooms open?

But say they open in July 2022…why would someone with a Sept UY not get 2021 points? It’s the current UY and the rooms are open.


----------



## DonMacGregor

Sandisw said:


> Correct. But they gave March 2019 UY points to someone for RIV when that resort did not open until Dec 2019. Yes, same calendar year, but those points couldn’t be used until Dec so they had points for 9 months before opening.
> 
> Same with when I got August 2019  points when the resort didn’t open until months later.
> 
> I guess we will see!


So if DLT opens the last week of November 2023 and you walk into the sales office on November 30 and tell them you want a December UY, they will give you full 2022 points representing your ownership in a unit that didn't even exist for 90+% of 2023 and not at all in 2022?

As you said, I guess we'll see.


----------



## Bjaiken77

What do you guys think of the price ends up being $225-235ish?  Is that still a buy for you?  It’s lower than the $255 but higher than the other resorts at $207.


----------



## kdm31091

CCV is $225 and in the MK area, but not on the monorail loop. So I really cannot see how they'd price VGF below $225 (at a base price, at least). It wouldn't make a lot of sense.


----------



## nuhusky123

kdm31091 said:


> CCV is $225 and in the MK area, but not on the monorail loop. So I really cannot see how they'd price VGF below $225 (at a base price, at least). It wouldn't make a lot of sense.


Sold out resort vs 2,000,000 new points. law of supply and demand


----------



## Bjaiken77

There are all kinds of arguments you can make for a wide variety of price points.  It’ll be interesting to see which one wins out.  $225-235 is a little steep for me.  I’m not super comfortable at that price.


----------



## Sandisw

DonMacGregor said:


> So if DLT opens the last week of November 2023 and you walk into the sales office on November 30 and tell them you want a December UY, they will give you full 2022 points representing your ownership in a unit that didn't even exist for 90+% of 2023 and not at all in 2022?



I believe so, yes…unless they decide that the first year to receive points for December was 2023 UY…they did do that with Feb UY for RIV.  They announced those would start with 2020. 

But, as I said, those with a March UY get a full set of 2019 points for use at RIV when the resort was only open for 2 weeks in 2019.


----------



## nuhusky123

Bjaiken77 said:


> What do you guys think of the price ends up being $225-235ish?  Is that still a buy for you?  It’s lower than the $255 but higher than the other resorts at $207.


given Inflation is about to go nuts, harder buy at that price and swan reserve may get my $


----------



## Sandisw

Bjaiken77 said:


> What do you guys think of the price ends up being $225-235ish?  Is that still a buy for you?  It’s lower than the $255 but higher than the other resorts at $207.



I think it will be close to RIV because I’m positive my talks with my guide would have been different. 

Plus, if it was going to be the $255 like before why would there be a need to not have leaked that with the notion of incentives to come.

Lets put it this way, if I am wrong, and it’s not close to RIV, I will be in total shock at this point.


----------



## Bjaiken77

Sandisw said:


> I think it will be close to RIV because I’m positive my talks with my guide would have been different.
> 
> Plus, if it was going to be the $255 like before why would there be a need to not have leaked that with the notion of incentives to come.


Yeah, that’s why I posed it that way.  At $207-215 I’m for sure in.  For $255 or higher I’m for sure out.  It’s that middle price point that bugs me.


----------



## Sandisw

Bjaiken77 said:


> Yeah, that’s why I posed it that way.  At $207-215 I’m for sure in.  For $255 or higher I’m for sure out.  It’s that middle price point that bugs me.



I will only do 50 if it’s $220s. Out for sure at $255.  Up to 125 if low $200s

Pixie dust price for me would be $204 for 125…thinking $214 base with $10/off for March for current owners starting at 125.


----------



## Bjaiken77

Sandisw said:


> I will only do 50 if it’s $220s. Out for sure at $255.  Up to 125 if low $200s
> 
> Pixie dust price for me would be $204 for 125…thinking $214 base with $10/off for March for current owners starting at 125.


Well, that would be amazing.  I would like some more direct points, so I may do 75 at $225.  I’ve always said the higher price points aren’t as big of a deal when buying direct and a low number of points.  If it’s $204 for 125 they can take my money.  I may buy more.


----------



## RamblinWreck

nuhusky123 said:


> given Inflation is about to go nuts, harder buy at that price and swan reserve may get my $


Am I wrong, or is buying a DVC contract actually a hedge against inflation?

Buying a timeshare is a bet that prices will rise significantly over time. If they don't, the NPV of your initial purchase is in the red.


----------



## stwaldman

RamblinWreck said:


> Am I wrong, or is buying a DVC contract actually a hedge against inflation?
> 
> Buying a timeshare is a bet that prices will rise significantly over time. If they don't, the NPV of your initial purchase is in the red.


I may be putting words in their mouth, but I read this post as "inflation would create other issues that would restrict my personal budget for DVC" but long term yeah your comment is correct (assuming price increases to resorts outpace price increases in dues sufficiently).


----------



## RamblinWreck

stwaldman said:


> I may be putting words in their mouth, but I read this post as "inflation would create other issues that would restrict my personal budget for DVC" but long term yeah your comment is correct (assuming price increases to resorts outpace price increases in dues sufficiently).


I guess that makes sense, but if you are sweating a few thousand dollars one way or another on a purchase right now because of some uncertainty (not to downplay the severity of the uncertainty here) in the markets, then you may not have enough financial flexibility for a frivolous purchase like a timeshare to make sense in the first place.

I say this as a very risk-averse person though. Generally speaking, even people who have financed DVC contracts so far have come out pretty well in the long run. I still wouldn't do it myself.


----------



## stwaldman

RamblinWreck said:


> I guess that makes sense, but if you are sweating a few thousand dollars one way or another on a purchase right now because of some uncertainty (not to downplay the severity of the uncertainty here) in the markets, then you may not have enough financial flexibility for a frivolous purchase like a timeshare to make sense in the first place.
> 
> I say this as a very risk-averse person though. Generally speaking, even people who have financed DVC contracts so far have come out pretty well in the long run. I still wouldn't do it myself.


Half agree - i think its been beaten to death on these boards that with annual price increases and short term incentives, there are instances where it makes sense to purchase a few months or years earlier than somebody would prefer, because it is entirely plausible that the VGF price for initial pricing might be $20-30pp higher than it will be 18 months from now after incentives (if they exist) expire, plus the now seemingly annual minimum price increase.

Every financial decision is personal, but the difference between pricing at $207 vs. $230pp is almost $5,000 on a 200 point contract. That's not an immaterial amount to push someone over their budget if they were at the top range at $207pp.

Edit: lower, not higher is what i meant...


----------



## Bjaiken77

If it comes out at $255 or higher, I just saved myself a lot of money.  I’m hoping it’s low, and if it is, I look at it as an opportunity that may not come around again.  It isn’t that great of an opportunity if the price is high.


----------



## HIRyeDVC

Man. 3/3 could not come soon enough so that this debate can finally be put to rest.


----------



## SusieQ93

Bjaiken77 said:


> If it comes out at $255 or higher, I just saved myself a lot of money.  I’m hoping it’s low, and if it is, I look at it as an opportunity that may not come around again.  It isn’t that great of an opportunity if the price is high.


Totally agree! No big rush to buy or anything at $255 pp. at that price, plenty Of other options. Or just not. I also do not think VGF is $48 pp nicer than RIV. RIV doesn’t have as good of location IMO (I think it’s subjective depending on what you want). But RIV is brand new and extremely nice. I think every bit as nice if not nicer than VGF. And most DVC buyers I believe are new owners. At the minimum purchase of 150 pts, that’s $7200 more than RIV. I just can’t see it.


----------



## RamblinWreck

stwaldman said:


> Half agree - i think its been beaten to death on these boards that with annual price increases and short term incentives, there are instances where it makes sense to purchase a few months or years earlier than somebody would prefer, because it is entirely plausible that the VGF price for initial pricing might be $20-30pp higher than it will be 18 months from now after incentives (if they exist) expire, plus the now seemingly annual minimum price increase.
> 
> Every financial decision is personal, but the difference between pricing at $207 vs. $230pp is almost $5,000 on a 200 point contract. That's not an immaterial amount to push someone over their budget if they were at the top range at $207pp.
> 
> Edit: lower, not higher is what i meant...


Oh I agree.

I just don't think that the threat of impending inflation or other economic woes should make you rethink the $5,000 difference, if you are already planning on shelling out $40,000. If anything, it should be making you rethink the $40,000!


----------



## RamblinWreck

HIRyeDVC said:


> Man. 3/3 could not come soon enough so that this debate can finally be put to rest.


I'm already trying to brainstorm what to argue about next!


----------



## stwaldman

RamblinWreck said:


> Oh I agree.
> 
> I just don't think that the threat of impending inflation or other economic woes should make you rethink the $5,000 difference, if you are already planning on shelling out $40,000. If anything, it should be making you rethink the $40,000!


we need to start a board for #DVCnihilism


----------



## SusieQ93

RamblinWreck said:


> I'm already trying to brainstorm what to argue about next!


I’ve become quite entertained by this board. Never really was active on the boards before. But this has become my hobby as I rock my infant son to sleep or when he gets me up in the middle of the night but refuses to sleep anywhere but on me in a rocking chair  and when I’m especially tired, I say to myself “grand Floridian, grand Floridian, grand Floridian,”  I’m pretty sure the only reason my husband has agreed to finally purchase DVC is because of how exhaustingly hard being a new mom is.  I’m going to need to find something new to preoccupy my middle of the night musings when the world is quiet and a little bit lonely.


----------



## HIRyeDVC

RamblinWreck said:


> I'm already trying to brainstorm what to argue about next!


Definitely a DLT pricing thread. I can and cannot wait at the same time!


----------



## BWV Dreamin

SusieQ93 said:


> Totally agree! No big rush to buy or anything at $255 pp. at that price, plenty Of other options. Or just not. I also do not think VGF is $48 pp nicer than RIV. RIV doesn’t have as good of location IMO (I think it’s subjective depending on what you want). But RIV is brand new and extremely nice. I think every bit as nice if not nicer than VGF. And most DVC buyers I believe are new owners. At the minimum purchase of 150 pts, that’s $7200 more than RIV. I just can’t see it.


But RIV has those restrictions. That right there may be a $48 difference.


----------



## SusieQ93

BWV Dreamin said:


> But RIV has those restrictions. That right there may be a $48 difference.


That’s true. I forget about the restrictions. They don’t matter quite so much to me only because I don’t envision myself selling (but who of us can predict the future, I sure can’t!). But I know they really bother some people. Although are new buyers savvy enough to understand that? I’m kind of surprised by some posts I see on FB where people have bought resale and had zero clue about the restrictions or that they wouldn’t be able to use their resale pts at Riviera. And I’m positive their resale reps would’ve told them. Sometimes I’m just surprised by what owners seem to not know - as someone who obsessively researches purchases.


----------



## UrsulaWantsYourSoul

On the DVC Show episode today they quoted the percentages from the poll.  But it closed July 26, 2021.  If it were still open, how much do you think percentages would have changed?  My response would have shifted slightly.


----------



## SleeplessInTO

After we get pricing for VGF2, I’d love to speculate which resort Disney will offer steep incentives for next. Have fallen a little in love with OKW and would love to buy those at $40 off per point. I know, I know, I’m dreaming.


----------



## Bjaiken77

I’d love for them to drop those resale restrictions at RIV.  I bought enough points that I was comfortable with on a resort that has resale restrictions.  Without resale restrictions, I’d just buy more points there if VGF is high priced.  I love RIV.


----------



## nuhusky123

Main concern I have about inflation because I do agree buying gfv is a hedge is that the economy takes a hit, dvc sales decrease and we actually see a price decrease of dvc

say inflation in the us gets so bad the fed has to increase interest rates to 10%. Dvc likely has to decrease prices not increase them

im still in the no way am I buying at $255 but I’ve got a nagging feeling could prices go down if the economy hits a speed bump and Russia goes to the next level


----------



## nuhusky123

BWV Dreamin said:


> But RIV has those restrictions. That right there may be a $48 difference.


And gfv has a shorter lifespan which further equalizes riv and gfv


----------



## Marionnette

nuhusky123 said:


> And gfv has a shorter lifespan which further equalizes riv and gfv


And yet AUL, with even fewer years remaining and still in active sales, has the same base price as RIV.


----------



## nuhusky123

Marionnette said:


> And yet AUL, with even fewer years remaining and still in active sales, has the same base price as RIV.


I don’t think we can compare aul against either riv or gfv.
1- in in Hawaii 
2- beach
3- no wdw

it has no comps.

riv and gfv compete. Aul doesn’t compete against any wdw resort. aul Might compete against a Disneyland resort, might and really emphasize might. But not wdw, geographic distance is too far

heck it’s faster to get to Disneyland Paris from the east coast than it is aul


----------



## Sandisw

BWV Dreamin said:


> But RIV has those restrictions. That right there may be a $48 difference.



For current owners on these boards? Sure. For the average new owner?

Just have a hard time seeing how a DVC guide sells that


----------



## Marionnette

nuhusky123 said:


> I don’t think we can compare aul against either riv or gfv.
> 1- in in Hawaii
> 2- beach
> 3- no wdw
> 
> it has no comps.
> 
> riv and gfv compete. Aul doesn’t compete against any wdw resort. aul Might compete against a Disneyland resort, might and really emphasize might. But not wdw, geographic distance is too far
> 
> heck it’s faster to get to Disneyland Paris from the east coast than it is aul


We're comparing DVC to DVC.

AUL, which has been in direct sales since July 2010 and is hands-down the slowest DVC resort to ever sell, is priced the same as RIV because...Hawaii? 

Yet you will argue in circles that VGF2, the second phase of DVC's fastest selling resort with more years on its contract, should sell for the same price because...not Hawaii?


----------



## nuhusky123

Sandisw said:


> For current owners on these boards? Sure. For the average new owner?
> 
> Just have a hard time seeing how a DVC guide sells that


That comes down to an extra $8 a point per year just for the longer contract. i don’t know what I’m having for lunch most days let alone past 2060

as a buyer I’ll just go with whatever is cheaper


----------



## Sandisw

nuhusky123 said:


> That comes down to an extra $8 a point per year just for the longer contract. i don’t know what I’m having for lunch most days let alone past 2060
> 
> as a buyer I’ll just go with whatever is cheaper



It will be interesting to see the BLT sales numbers too. While it wasn’t promoted like VGF will be , if we see a nice jump in it, it could be a bit telling on what it takes to drive sales, which, IMO, is all DVD cares about in the end.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

RamblinWreck said:


> Am I wrong, or is buying a DVC contract actually a hedge against inflation?
> 
> Buying a timeshare is a bet that prices will rise significantly over time. If they don't, the NPV of your initial purchase is in the red.


Correct. Steeper inflation (vs your personal IRR) improves the value of your purchase.

That said I wouldn’t want to hold DVC if I had an intention of selling someday during a recession (which typically but not always go hand in hand with inflation). Luxury good prices don’t do well in recessions. If you plan to use the contract until it expires (or until you do), than it doesn’t matter.


----------



## Bjaiken77

My thought is that VGF should still be priced as a promoted resort with lots of points.  Some people hate VGF.  They love the vibe of Poly or WL.  I, personally, think RIV is just as nice, if not nicer, than VGF.  There are people on here that will wildly disagree with me.

I just hope it comes down to VGF is the on sale resort now, and it’s going to be priced aggressively to sell points.  If so, I’ll be ready to buy.  I might personally choose Poly over VGF if they had more than studios with queen sized beds and no murphy beds.  I just want to be on the monorail loop with a few more years and flair than BLT.


----------



## davidl81

When VGF first went on sale BLT was the other “active” resort.  Everyone in the board speculated that VGF would be so expensive etc, and it opened at a LOWER base price than BLT.  VGF let the point chart do the work (more points per night needed) rather than a straight top line $pp.  That has not changed, VGF rooms are still more points per night than any other DVC resort (although RIV does give it a run).  That point chart is why IMO VGF2 opens at the same price that both other active DVC resorts are at ($207).


----------



## nuhusky123

davidl81 said:


> When VGF first went on sale BLT was the other “active” resort.  Everyone in the board speculated that VGF would be so expensive etc, and it opened at a LOWER base price than BLT.  VGF let the point chart do the work (more points per night needed) rather than a straight top line $pp.  That has not changed, VGF rooms are still more points per night than any other DVC resort (although RIV does give it a run).  That point chart is why IMO VGF2 opens at the same price that both other active DVC resorts are at ($207).


just for fun new Prediction. Vgf opens lower than riv base price with awesome incentives and the point chart is the great equalizer

vgf sells like hot cakes because dvc prices vgf appropriately


----------



## BWV Dreamin

Sandisw said:


> It will be interesting to see the BLT sales numbers too. While it wasn’t promoted like VGF will be , if we see a nice jump in it, it could be a bit telling on what it takes to drive sales, which, IMO, is all DVD cares about in the end.


They did mention on Pete Werner’s show that the last promo with BLT did amazingly well. And IMO, was a test for VGF2.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

nuhusky123 said:


> just for fun new Prediction. Vgf opens lower than riv base price with awesome incentives and the point chart is the great equalizer


Lower than RIV? Dream on…….


----------



## lowlight

Sandisw said:


> It will be interesting to see the BLT sales numbers too. While it wasn’t promoted like VGF will be , if we see a nice jump in it, it could be a bit telling on what it takes to drive sales, which, IMO, is all DVD cares about in the end.



I still think they are going to have quarterly/seasonal fire sales like they did with Aulani and BLT. Maybe based off what they’ve done heavy ROFRs on previously.


----------



## DeeBee3

pkrieger2287 said:


> I would use the word "rumor" in a very loose sense.  I can't say confirmed because DVC will never admit to this stuff... Let's just see if there are backpacks around a few months from now.  If so... someone can make me a dress out of backpacks and I'll wear it around the parks.
> 
> I can also tell you that direct guides have been fighting this decision tooth and nail.
> [/Q
> 
> I will offer my backpack for part of the dress.


----------



## Sandisw

BWV Dreamin said:


> They did mention on Pete Werner’s show that the last promo with BLT did amazingly well. And IMO, was a test for VGF2.



I think so too and that is why I am getting the hints that VGF will open close to RIV because the incentives of BLT in essence did that.


----------



## Sandisw

davidl81 said:


> When VGF first went on sale BLT was the other “active” resort.  Everyone in the board speculated that VGF would be so expensive etc, and it opened at a LOWER base price than BLT.  VGF let the point chart do the work (more points per night needed) rather than a straight top line $pp.  That has not changed, VGF rooms are still more points per night than any other DVC resort (although RIV does give it a run).  That point chart is why IMO VGF2 opens at the same price that both other active DVC resorts are at ($207).



And, I will add that shortly after the announcement, DVD raised the minimum from 125 for new buyers to 150…allows for a lower start price to pick it up in volume.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

BWV Dreamin said:


> They did mention on Pete Werner’s show that the last promo with BLT did amazingly well. And IMO, was a test for VGF2.


How would they know that? There’s barely any February sales in the OC database yet.


----------



## DeeBee3

Happy March 1! 2 more days for all the interested parties.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

DeeBee3 said:


> Happy March 1! 2 more days for all the interested parties.


I think we’ll know tomorrow…


----------



## lowlight

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> How would they know that? There’s barely any February sales in the OC database yet.


I’m certain they personally know several guides.  A few people on the show used to work for DVC.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> How would they know that? There’s barely any February sales in the OC database yet.


That would be a question for Paul Kreiger….Paul are you reading this?


----------



## DKZB

nuhusky123 said:


> I don’t think we can compare aul against either riv or gfv.
> 1- in in Hawaii
> 2- beach
> 3- no wdw
> 
> it has no comps.
> 
> riv and gfv compete. Aul doesn’t compete against any wdw resort. aul Might compete against a Disneyland resort, might and really emphasize might. But not wdw, geographic distance is too far
> 
> heck it’s faster to get to Disneyland Paris from the east coast than it is aul



Just Checked out Airfare from the NYC area to Hawaii for January 2023 AUL trip. It is close to $1000/seat! With 4 tickets for 5 people (infant on the lap). That is EXPENSIVE before you factor in the room/food/excursions etc. This was always my hesitation about buying AUL points even at December firesale prices. Might work for single people, couples without kids and older individuals but hard to make a case for AUL with a family unless you are a west coaster. DLT is an easier story because you can get a flight from NYC for 1/3 of that price!


----------



## stwaldman

DKZB said:


> Just Checked out Airfare from the NYC area to Hawaii for January 2023 AUL trip. It is close to $1000/seat! With 4 tickets for 5 people (infant on the lap). That is EXPENSIVE before you factor in the room/food/excursions etc. This was always my hesitation about buying AUL points even at December firesale prices. Might work for single people, couples without kids and older individuals but hard to make a case for AUL with a family unless you are a west coaster. DLT is an easier story because you can get a flight from NYC for 1/3 of that price!


Yeah, it's just such a nonstarter for a lot of the east coast wdw crowd. If I'm getting on that long a flight, I'll go to Europe just as often as Hawaii.


----------



## Jimmy Geppetto

lowlight said:


> I’m certain they personally know several guides.  A few people on the show used to work for DVC.



Let’s carry this assumption to pricing.  The same people who “know several guides” also predicted prices north of $255.


----------



## Jimmy Geppetto

DKZB said:


> Just Checked out Airfare from the NYC area to Hawaii for January 2023 AUL trip. It is close to $1000/seat! With 4 tickets for 5 people (infant on the lap). That is EXPENSIVE before you factor in the room/food/excursions etc. This was always my hesitation about buying AUL points even at December firesale prices. Might work for single people, couples without kids and older individuals but hard to make a case for AUL with a family unless you are a west coaster. DLT is an easier story because you can get a flight from NYC for 1/3 of that price!



Long time vacationer to Hawaii here (not AUL yet…but we frequent the Hawaiian islands pre-pandemic) and I noticed the same high flight prices, however, prior to the pandemic I could easily fly from Toronto to Maui for under $650 CAD per ticket if I was ok connecting in Denver, or SFO/LAX.  From what I gather, the high prices are a combination of airlines shrinking their schedules which reduces the supply of flights available and airlines trying to recoup losses.  We should see this normalize in 2023 if things continue to improve pandemic wise and as airlines expand their routes.


----------



## CarolMN

Jimmy Geppetto said:


> Let’s carry this assumption to pricing.  The same people who “know several guides” also predicted prices north of $255.


But if those DVD guides actually knew, the price would have already leaked.  I don't think the  DVCFan group has any inside info.  I've watched and enjoyed the shows & articles, but they don't always get things right, either.   

If the info is provided to the guides tomorrow (3/2), I predict it will leak a few minutes after that.  Stay tuned!


----------



## stwaldman

Jimmy Geppetto said:


> Long time vacationer to Hawaii here (not AUL yet…but we frequent the Hawaiian islands pre-pandemic) and I noticed the same high flight prices, however, prior to the pandemic I could easily fly from Toronto to Maui for under $650 CAD per ticket if I was ok connecting in Denver, or SFO/LAX.  From what I gather, the high prices are a combination of airlines shrinking their schedules which reduces the supply of flights available and airlines trying to recoup losses.  We should see this normalize in 2023 if things continue to improve pandemic wise and as airlines expand their routes.


airlines reducing their prices after finding an excuse to raise them? Ha!

edited the note this is entirely meant in good fun, i know jokes sometimes get lost here :-D


----------



## Bjaiken77

I, personally, love these debates and scenarios.  Yes, I’m going to be happy when it’s over, but I’ve never had a situation where I’ve been informed of the price of a $20-$40K purchase, the rules associated with it, and then asked if I want to buy.  I’m the type that’s asks a million questions, and mulls over the possibilities, before buying a $50 pillow to decide if it’s worth it.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

CarolMN said:


> But if those DVD guides actually knew, the price would have already leaked.  I don't think the  DVCFan group has any inside info.  I've watched and enjoyed the shows & articles, but they don't always get things right, either.


Blasphemy!!


----------



## DKZB

Jimmy Geppetto said:


> Long time vacationer to Hawaii here (not AUL yet…but we frequent the Hawaiian islands pre-pandemic) and I noticed the same high flight prices, however, prior to the pandemic I could easily fly from Toronto to Maui for under $650 CAD per ticket if I was ok connecting in Denver, or SFO/LAX.  From what I gather, the high prices are a combination of airlines shrinking their schedules which reduces the supply of flights available and airlines trying to recoup losses.  We should see this normalize in 2023 if things continue to improve pandemic wise and as airlines expand their routes.



I hope you are right! I am actually second guessing whether we will go to AUL at that price! We could fly to WDW and spend the other $3200 on the parks....better deal to me!


----------



## lowlight

Bjaiken77 said:


> I, personally, love these debates and scenarios.  Yes, I’m going to be happy when it’s over, but I’ve never had a situation where I’ve been informed of the price of a $20-$40K purchase, the rules associated with it, and then asked if I want to buy.  I’m the type that’s asks a million questions, and mulls over the possibilities, before buying a $50 pillow to decide if it’s worth it.


Look at this rich guy with his fancy $50 pillows.  Hah, I’m the same way.  I get stuck in analysis paralysis weekly.


----------



## Bjaiken77

I watched those talks too, and I think they said they are just giving their best prediction. They are guessing just like we are.


----------



## Bjaiken77

lowlight said:


> Look at this rich guy with his fancy $50 pillows.  Hah, I’m the same way.  I get stuck in analysis paralysis weekly.



haha…hey, sleep is important to the body.  I’d pay double to make sure I sleep like a baby.


----------



## lowlight

Jimmy Geppetto said:


> Let’s carry this assumption to pricing.  The same people who “know several guides” also predicted prices north of $255.


I see what you’re saying, but guides know for sure how BLT sold on sale, it’s not an assumption.  Whereas I’m pretty sure guides have only a feeling of where VGF2 will be.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

If you watch Pete Werner’s shows on a regular basis ( and you should btw) his predictions about several things have come true. Don’t know the percentages ( maybe 90%), but when Pete speaks, I am listening! Would be fun to see where his predictions fall with the VGF opening price along with ours.


----------



## nuhusky123

BWV Dreamin said:


> If you watch Pete Werner’s shows on a regular basis ( and you should btw) his predictions about several things have come true. Don’t know the percentages ( maybe 90%), but when Pete speaks, I am listening!


The dude uses the same argument others have, gfv as a sold out resort cost $255 so therefore gfv2 has to be $255 or more

compeltly fails to understand basic economics given 2,000,000 new points are injected into the system

he may know his stuff in general and had He addressed the 2,000,000 points I might consider his opinion. But given the total failure to address this massive infusion of points he lost me


----------



## BWV Dreamin

nuhusky123 said:


> The dude uses the same argument others have, gfv as a sold out resort cost $255 so therefore gfv2 has to be $255 or more
> 
> compeltly fails to understand basic economics given 2,000,000 new points are injected into the system
> 
> he may know his stuff in general and had He addressed the 2,000,000 points I might consider his opinion. But given the total failure to address this massive infusion of points he lost me


…..oh no……


----------



## nuhusky123

BWV Dreamin said:


> …..oh no……


One of us gets to say told you so in a day or two


----------



## Bjaiken77

nuhusky123 said:


> One of us gets to say told you so in a day or two


And this will be the fun part!!!  Haha


----------



## RoseGold

BWV Dreamin said:


> They did mention on Pete Werner’s show that the last promo with BLT did amazingly well. And IMO, was a test for VGF2.



This seems like a stretch to me.  I mean just in volume.  DVC had some from buybacks and foreclosures, but they didn't have a whole building worth of points to sell.  But it was (is?) a screaming deal.  I would have done it if I wanted more points.


----------



## Sandisw

Bjaiken77 said:


> And this will be the fun part!!!  Haha



Can you imagine if both camps are correct? Base price of $255 but incentives for all levels bring it down close to RiV???

Again, not the sense I am taking from my chats so I’m sticking with $214 base price with incentives at 100 points and above.


----------



## Bjaiken77

Sandisw said:


> Can you imagine if both camps are correct? Base price of $255 but incentives for all levels bring it down close to RiV???
> 
> Again, not the sense I am taking from my chats so I’m sticking with $214 base price.



I’m just looking forward to all the “I knew it all along - in your face” comments when, at best, all anyone can do is put forth their most educated guess.  I know those posts are coming though!  The $255 with incentives down to $214 might be the only way of keeping peace within the online community.


----------



## Sandisw

Bjaiken77 said:


> I’m just looking forward to all the “I knew it all along - in your face” comments when, at best, all anyone can do is put forth their most educated guess.  I know those posts are coming though!  The $255 with incentives down to $214 might be the only way of keeping peace within the online community.



I still want it closer to $200s!!! But it certainly seems like this week is dragging!!!!

I am confident it will be kept all in the fun this thread has produced!!


----------



## Bjaiken77

Sandisw said:


> I still want it closer to $200s!!! But it certainly seems like this week is dragging!!!!



I agree. For me, this has the possibility of being the foundation of how I vacation over the next 40+ years. I would totally be happy with direct contracts at VGF and RIV. However, this is all on hold until we get that pricing information. Also, it needs to be affordable enough where I can buy enough points to make a difference. I’m looking at at least 100 just so that I can get a few days a year.


----------



## Nabas

Jimmy Geppetto said:


> Long time vacationer to Hawaii here (not AUL yet…but we frequent the Hawaiian islands pre-pandemic) and I noticed the same high flight prices, however, prior to the pandemic I could easily fly from Toronto to Maui for under $650 CAD per ticket if I was ok connecting in Denver, or SFO/LAX.  From what I gather, the high prices are a combination of airlines shrinking their schedules which reduces the supply of flights available and airlines trying to recoup losses.  We should see this normalize in 2023 if things continue to improve pandemic wise and as airlines expand their routes.


Airlines are experiencing higher fuel costs, higher labor costs, and higher parts replacement costs.  (You might be surprised how much it costs to keep an airliner up to FAA/CAA safety standards.)

Pretty much all manufacturers and service providers are passing on their higher operating costs to consumers.

Disney also is experiencing higher labor and operating costs.  The difference is, pre-pandemic, Disney had plans to increase theme park prices even further beyond their increased costs.

VGF2 will be priced the highest Disney leadership thinks the market will bear, not based on how much it costs to convert Big Pine Key.


----------



## RamblinWreck

Sandisw said:


> Can you imagine if both camps are correct? Base price of $255 but incentives for all levels bring it down close to RiV???
> 
> Again, not the sense I am taking from my chats so I’m sticking with $214 base price with incentives at 100 points and above.


A high base price with "incentives" that never really go away would be an interesting sales tactic for sure.

Get it now before the price goes way up! (which it may never do!)


----------



## rubybutt

nuhusky123 said:


> Sold out resort vs 2,000,000 new points. law of supply and demand



I really don't understand how this is hard to understand.


----------



## nuhusky123

rubybutt said:


> I really don't understand how this is hard to understand.


Apparently very hard


----------



## Bjaiken77

RamblinWreck said:


> A high base price with "incentives" that never really go away would be an interesting sales tactic for sure.
> 
> Get it now before the price goes way up! (which it may never do!)



The funny thing is I don’t care how they do the math.  Whatever allows them to justify a low cost is what I support.


----------



## Sandisw

rubybutt said:


> I really don't understand how this is hard to understand.



To be fair, when Disney, DVC, and DVD are involved in decisions, it is easy to see how they could do things that make no sense to the rest of us.

So, while many of us think we know the way they will go, based on what has happened in the past and having so many new points to sell, and what seems to be common sense, nothing would surprise me!!!!


----------



## sethschroeder

rubybutt said:


> I really don't understand how this is hard to understand.



Whats hard to understand about the opposite point of view though? They have RIV and AUL at a lower price if people want a less expensive resort. They don't need to instantly sell out their "premium" resort on property.

The real question is how many buyers do you lose if VGF is $255 that won't buy RIV/AUL at $207 instead? That is the target group where the analysis kicks in to figure out what to do. Another target group is how many people will pass on DVC all together because having VGF and RIV at seperate price points or a $40 delta makes then turned off to notion?

Everyone likes to say "supply and demand" but just like cuts of beef it doesn't mean everything needs to be the same price. You might throw that brisket flat cut in the freezer until you can mark it up at Saint Patrick's day for Corned Beef.


----------



## stwaldman

sethschroeder said:


> Whats hard to understand about the opposite point of view though? They have RIV and AUL at a lower price if people want a less expensive resort. They don't need to instantly sell out their "premium" resort on property.
> 
> The real question is how many buyers do you lose if VGF is $255 that won't buy RIV/AUL at $207 instead? That is the target group where the analysis kicks in to figure out what to do. Another target group is how many people will pass on DVC all together because having VGF and RIV at seperate price points or a $40 delta makes then turned off to notion?
> 
> Everyone likes to say "supply and demand" but just like cuts of beef it doesn't mean everything needs to be the same price. You might throw that brisket flat cut in the freezer until you can mark it up at Saint Patrick's day for Corned Beef.


I think there is an unresolvable quibble here between those who think DVD will be happy to market VGF as a premier property and Riviera as effectively a bargain property (sold at the same price as the "unselloutable aulani), and those who think that DVC will throw up pixie dust before writing off riviera as some sort of discount option, because of what they invested in the property and how its been marketed to date. If you don't agree on that point, then you won't agree on any other points.


----------



## sethschroeder

stwaldman said:


> If you don't agree on that point, then you won't agree on any other points.



DVC could do anything and marketing will do what they can to try and push sales. What marketing has done historically to market a property has little to do with what the business leaders will decide needs to happen based on the data.


----------



## Bjaiken77

stwaldman said:


> I think there is an unresolvable quibble here between those who think DVD will be happy to market VGF as a premier property and Riviera as effectively a bargain property (sold at the same price as the "unselloutable aulani), and those who think that DVC will throw up pixie dust before writing off riviera as some sort of discount option, because of what they invested in the property and how its been marketed to date. If you don't agree on that point, then you won't agree on any other points.



I agree 100%.  If DVC is not vocal about the resale restrictions, I’d buy RIV before VGF if VGF is more expensive.  I’d likely buy RIV before VGF if they were the same price.  6 more years and my preference as a resort and proximity to parks I prefer.

I don’t see RIV as a step down at all.  I have no clue how many other people feel that way, but I hear several others who have vocalized the same.


----------



## DeeBee3

My guide called today and said to call back at the end of the week (after announcement) SOONER rather than later. haha...the optimistic part of me wants to interpret this as good news for those of us looking at a decent price and incentives.


----------



## Bjaiken77

DeeBee3 said:


> My guide called today and said to call back at the end of the week (after announcement) SOONER rather than later. haha...the optimistic part of me wants to interpret this as good news for those of us looking at a decent price and incentives.



haha…I’m so sick of these cryptic messages.  Just release the price and details…Ahhhh!!!!


----------



## Bjaiken77

If you want to know the price of VGF, go to the Magic Kingdom.  There, you will find a flower that looks out of place.  Walk to it.  Take 5 steps backwards and turn around.  Look up, count the number of birds in the sky and multiply by 20 and divide by 4.  You will then know the price of VGF.


----------



## lowlight

Bjaiken77 said:


> If you want to know the price of VGF, go to the Magic Kingdom.  There, you will find a flower that looks out of place.  Walk to it.  Take 5 steps backwards and turn around.  Look up, count the number of birds in the sky and multiply by 20 and divide by 4.  You will then know the price of VGF.



5 steps backwards in MK!  Do you know how crowded that place is!  Impossible!


----------



## Bjaiken77

lowlight said:


> 5 steps backwards in MK!  Do you know how crowded that place is!  Impossible!



Sorry, that’s the game, homey!  Take it or leave it.


----------



## smmora

Wouldn't it be fun if they had a trivia game you played and when you finally beat you got to find out the price like an hour early or something


----------



## Sandisw

One new tidbit. I am from NY and my guide did mention that they are waiting on the state to give some level of approval to send info for this new property. So far, only one left of the 48 continuous states.

He is hoping it won’t be an issue come Thursday but wanted me to know in case I didn’t get the email..he said will go out right at 9:00 am..or the call.

Worse Case I buy on site next week when I arrive!


----------



## nuhusky123

Sandisw said:


> One new tidbit. I am from NY and my guide did mention that they are waiting on the state to give some level of approval to send info for this new property. So far, only one left of the 48 continuous states.
> 
> He is hoping it won’t be an issue come Thursday but wanted me to know in case I didn’t get the email..he said will go out right at 9:00 am..or the call.
> 
> Worse Case I buy on site next week when I arrive!


Sorry ny no soup for you


----------



## rubybutt

I am going on record to say price at 300 points is south of $190pp.

Also I am rethinking my purchase.  I was going to do a guaranteed 1 bedroom week.  NO GW in VGF1.  Only GW in VGF2 building.


----------



## jkips

Is the general expectation that the initial price plus whatever incentives there might be will the lowest price for the next couple of years?   I didn't follow the RIV opening closely but is that what happened there?


----------



## Sandisw

jkips said:


> Is the general expectation that the initial price plus whatever incentives there might be will the lowest price for the next couple of years?   I didn't follow the RIV opening closely but is that what happened there?



I think most expect the initial price with incentives to be the best, which is normal practice.

Now, RIV had some slightly better incentives at the higher point level right after the pandemic.

I think if it comes out with a higher base price like it was before sales stopped, then maybe not.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

sethschroeder said:


> Whats hard to understand about the opposite point of view though? They have RIV and AUL at a lower price if people want a less expensive resort. They don't need to instantly sell out their "premium" resort on property.
> 
> The real question is how many buyers do you lose if VGF is $255 that won't buy RIV/AUL at $207 instead? That is the target group where the analysis kicks in to figure out what to do. Another target group is how many people will pass on DVC all together because having VGF and RIV at seperate price points or a $40 delta makes then turned off to notion?
> 
> Everyone likes to say "supply and demand" but just like cuts of beef it doesn't mean everything needs to be the same price. You might throw that brisket flat cut in the freezer until you can mark it up at Saint Patrick's day for Corned Beef.


If people were going to buy RIV they would have done so.


----------



## Sandisw

BWV Dreamin said:


> If people were going to buy RIV they would have done so.



People have bought it…closing in on almost 3 million points sold.

But, VGF sales will be a big test against it and I bet DVD is counting on this to help guide its path forward because I do not believe this was on the radar for them when Reflections was in play.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

jkips said:


> Is the general expectation that the initial price plus whatever incentives there might be will the lowest price for the next couple of years?   I didn't follow the RIV opening closely but is that what happened there?


I certainly think that, barring a massive economic setback, that will be true.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

BWV Dreamin said:


> If people were going to buy RIV they would have done so.


That’s not how timeshare sales work at all. New targets every week!


----------



## Frugal Fairy Tales

Sandisw said:


> People have bought it…closing in on almost 3 million points sold.
> 
> But, VGF sales will be a big test against it and I bet DVD is counting on this to help guide its path forward because I do not believe this was on the radar for them when Reflections was in play.


Wow, 3 million Riviera points sold already. That seems pretty good. How many total points will Riviera have?


----------



## HIRyeDVC

Frugal Fairy Tales said:


> Wow, 3 million Riviera points sold already. That seems pretty good. How many total points will Riviera have?


https://dvcnews.com/dvc-program/fin...ect-sales-continue-to-improve-in-january-2022
This article says that Riviera has a total 6.7 million points.  39% of the resort has been sold so far.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

The point I was trying to make was that it is not going to be a high opening price at VGF that drives people buy at RIV. Either they want it or they dont.


----------



## Sandisw

Frugal Fairy Tales said:


> Wow, 3 million Riviera points sold already. That seems pretty good. How many total points will Riviera have?



Over 6 million..so only about 39% sold. That is why I think VGF is going to be a good test.

It will be interesting to see what new buyers do with these two choices.


----------



## Nabas

Frugal Fairy Tales said:


> Wow, 3 million Riviera points sold already. That seems pretty good. How many total points will Riviera have?


Some recent numbers:

VGF sold 2,442,998 points in 24 months, an average of *101,792* points per month.
PVB sold 3,916,573 points in 37 months, an average of *105,853 *points per month.
CCV sold 3,025,762 points in 28 months, an average of *108,063 *points per month.
In its first 12 months prior to the COVID shutdown, RIV sold 1,372,787 points, an average of *114,399 *points per month.  In the most recent 12 months, RIV has averaged *72,288 *points per month.
RIV has a total of *6,739,966* points.


----------



## Sandisw

BWV Dreamin said:


> The point I was trying to make was that it is not going to be a high opening price at VGF that drives people buy at RIV. Either they want it or they dont.



I think there are a lot of new buyers who do consider overall price.  We saw that with some of the data last summer with the 2nd place resorts.

It was SSR until that became more expensive than OKW, and then that was the choice.

I do think those that really want VGF will be willing to pay more for it.  But, will the new buyer who is being sold on the magic of DVC and doesn’t have a clear favorite do it?

Like I said, the sale figures for April will be interesting to see how things shake out!  Not counting March because that is current owners Only.


----------



## tjkraz

BWV Dreamin said:


> The point I was trying to make was that it is not going to be a high opening price at VGF that drives people buy at RIV. Either they want it or they dont.



Many people who buy DVC had barely heard of DVC a month prior. Others have probably been on the fence for almost a year since the VGF expansion was announced.

I don't expect prices to be identical once incentives are taken into account. The high point charts + shorter contract of VGF will be a turn off for some buyers, especially if combined with a higher buy-in price.


----------



## Bjaiken77

RIV is awesome.  I can’t lie, those resale restrictions scare me, so I don’t own a ton of points.  But if VGF ends up to be a bad price, I may just add more points there.  I want more direct points for future resorts (assuming these dumb resale restrictions persist).


----------



## RamblinWreck

sethschroeder said:


> Whats hard to understand about the opposite point of view though? They have RIV and AUL at a lower price if people want a less expensive resort. They don't need to instantly sell out their "premium" resort on property.
> 
> The real question is how many buyers do you lose if VGF is $255 that won't buy RIV/AUL at $207 instead? That is the target group where the analysis kicks in to figure out what to do. Another target group is how many people will pass on DVC all together because having VGF and RIV at seperate price points or a $40 delta makes then turned off to notion?


I do think pricing different resorts differently will hurt their sales pitch.

They don’t sell you on just Riviera. They sell you on being able to book anywhere. Since all the points count the same, are people really going to buy that the home resort booking window is worth even $1 per point premium?

And how do you explain that premium without confessing that booking at other resorts might not be quite as easy as they just told you it was?

People who know DVC and are already owners might buy the value of it. But we are in the minority and not primarily who they are pitching these products to.


----------



## Frugal Fairy Tales

HIRyeDVC said:


> https://dvcnews.com/dvc-program/fin...ect-sales-continue-to-improve-in-january-2022
> This article says that Riviera has a total 6.7 million points.  39% of the resort has been sold so far.


Thank you!


----------



## Marionnette

tjkraz said:


> Many people who buy DVC had barely heard of DVC a month prior. Others have probably been on the fence for almost a year since the VGF expansion was announced.
> 
> I don't expect prices to be identical once incentives are taken into account. The high point charts + shorter contract of VGF will be a turn off for some buyers, especially if combined with a higher buy-in price.


I think a lot of people, maybe not the savvy buyers on this board, but a lot of people will only look at what their monthly payments will be on their loan. They'll look at all of the points charts and imagine themselves trading out to AKV Club level or BWV standard views. 

New members have to join in with a minimum of 150 points (unless it gets raised again). So their guide will be showing them what 150 points will get them at every DVC resort. And then the financing math comes out.

Has anyone done the math on the difference between monthly payments on150 points at RIV and a higher estimate for VGF2? RIV @$207 without incentives, 10% down and 10-year financing @9.99% comes out to $455 per month plus dues (about another $105 per month in 2022). VGF2 @$225 per point without incentives, same financing terms, comes to $489 per month (plus dues of about $90 in 2022). That would make VGF2 payments $19 per month higher than the same number of points at RIV. If someone really loves VGF and either of those monthly payment estimates didn't make them choke on their Mickey bar, do you think that they will buy RIV because it is $19 less per month?

My point is that Disney will have crunched their numbers, added incentives for all resorts that are in active sales, and they will have set VGF2's price at a sweet spot where, with incentives, that monthly payment is a bit higher than RIV but not high enough to discourage VGF2 sales. They have to raise the floor somewhat because, as Pete pointed out, DLT is next out of the box. DVC needs to slowly boil us frogs in anticipation of an even higher base price for DLT.


----------



## RamblinWreck

Marionnette said:


> I think a lot of people, maybe not the savvy buyers on this board, but a lot of people will only look at what their monthly payments will be on their loan. They'll look at all of the points charts and imagine themselves trading out to AKV Club level or BWV standard views.
> 
> New members have to join in with a minimum of 150 points (unless it gets raised again). So their guide will be showing them what 150 points will get them at every DVC resort. And then the financing math comes out.
> 
> *Has anyone done the math on the difference between monthly payments on150 points at RIV and a higher estimate for VGF2? RIV @$207 without incentives, 10% down and 10-year financing @9.99% comes out to $455 per month plus dues (about another $105 per month in 2022). VGF2 @$225 per point without incentives, same financing terms, comes to $489 per month (plus dues of about $90 in 2022). That would make VGF2 payments $19 per month higher than the same number of points at RIV. If someone really loves VGF and either of those monthly payment estimates didn't make them choke on their Mickey bar, do you think that they will buy RIV because it is $19 less per month?*


Yes. Like you said, people are looking at the point charts and imagining themselves trading into other resorts.

Why pay more for VGF when the contract ends 6 years sooner and I can save $270 on my down payment by going with Riviera, plus $19 per month on my future payments by buying into Riviera, and then I can just stay at VGF with my Riviera points if I want to anyway?


And also, pricing the resorts differently is going to encourage people to actually dive into the numbers. Because you kind of have to in order to make a decision between two differently priced products. I imagine that's about the last thing someone trying to sell a timeshare ever wants anyone to do.


----------



## Nabas

When many buy a car, they find a car they like and then back into reasons to justify why they like it.

RIV and VGF2 are no different.

Someone who wants to buy at RIV is going to tell themselves: "new resort", "Skyliner", "microwave", "bar sink", "split bathroom", "longer contract", etc.

Someone who wants to buy at VGF2 is going to tell themselves: "flagship resort", "close to Magic Kingdom", "two queen beds", "fewer resale restrictions", etc.

All this talk of why VGF2 is "better" than RIV simply reflects opinions that are looking for justifications.

The real question is, does Disney want to sell VGF2 as "better" than RIV, or does Disney want to sell VGF2 and RIV as equally wonderful resorts?


----------



## nuhusky123

Nabas said:


> When many buy a car, they find a car they like and then back into reasons to justify why the like it.
> 
> RIV and VGF2 are no different.
> 
> Someone who wants to buy at RIV is going to tell themselves: "new resort", "Skyliner", "microwave", "bar sink", "split bathroom", "longer contract", etc.
> 
> Someone who wants to buy at VGF2 is going to tell themselves: "flagship resort", "close to Magic Kingdom", "two queen beds", "fewer resale restrictions", etc.
> 
> All this talk of why VGF2 is "better" than RIV simply reflects opinions that are looking for justifications.
> 
> The real question is, does Disney want to sell VGF2 as being "better" than RIV, or does Disney want to sell VGF2 and RIV as equally wonderful resorts?


I think the latter. Vgf and riv as equally wonderful


----------



## Marionnette

RamblinWreck said:


> Yes. Like you said, people are looking at the point charts and imagining themselves trading into other resorts.
> 
> Why pay more for VGF when the contract ends 6 years sooner and I can save $270 on my down payment by going with Riviera, plus $19 per month on my future payments by buying into Riviera, and then I can just stay at VGF with my Riviera points if I want to anyway?
> 
> 
> And also, pricing the resorts differently is going to encourage people to actually dive into the numbers. Because you kind of have to in order to make a decision between two differently priced products. I imagine that's about the last thing someone trying to sell a timeshare ever wants anyone to do.


Ah! But you're talking like an educated DVC owner. You are a guide's worst nightmare. Okay, maybe not the worst but definitely not the preferred buyer.

The easiest sale is going to be for the newbie with pixie dust in their eyes, who loves the idea of being that close to the MK and who cares about 6 fewer years when we're still talking about 42 vs 48 years? Let the kids worry about that 'cause we'll be dead! Don't forget that the majority of luxury sales appeal to a buyer's emotions and not their heads.

And so what if the price difference drives sales to RIV instead of VGF2 as long as a sale is made? It's not as if RIV is a second-tier resort by comparison. RIV will still have more points to sell than VGF2 when sales begin, so that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing for any buyers on the fence to gravitate to RIV.


----------



## Jelly563

For those of you who are not willing to pay more than $250 a point...... please move out of the way and stand on the side while the people with real money make their purchases.  Don't worry, the rest will be able to bid on availability at the 7month mark.


----------



## nuhusky123

Jelly563 said:


> For those of you who are not willing to pay more than $250 a point...... please move out of the way and stand on the side while the people with real money make their purchases.  Don't worry, the rest will be able to bid on availability at the 7month mark.


Then there are those with smart money who know when to spend and not to spend based on what is a sound investment or not


----------



## Jelly563

you want a sound purchase, buy SSR


----------



## Sandisw

Marionnette said:


> Ah! But you're talking like an educated DVC owner. You are a guide's worst nightmare. Okay, maybe not the worst but definitely not the preferred buyer.
> 
> The easiest sale is going to be for the newbie with pixie dust in their eyes, who loves the idea of being that close to the MK and who cares about 6 fewer years when we're still talking about 42 vs 48 years? Let the kids worry about that 'cause we'll be dead! Don't forget that the majority of luxury sales appeal to a buyer's emotions and not their heads.
> 
> And so what if the price difference drives sales to RIV instead of VGF2 as long as a sale is made? It's not as if RIV is a second-tier resort by comparison. RIV will still have more points to sell than VGF2 when sales begin, so that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing for any buyers on the fence to gravitate to RIV.



I think for those who know what they want…being near MK, and Indicate they are financing, it could be an easy sell  and that monthly payment being slightly more won’t deter them

But, what about the buyer who doesn’t know yet much and has to be sold on the idea of DVC?  Wont Guides still need to be able to explain why one is more than the other without disparaging the program?

I think the hard part about all of this is that normally, when a new resort is introduced, the current resort is closer to being sold out so the sell of the new resort would seem easier.

This is the first time you will have two resorts at WDW in the midst of full active sales At the same time.

I can imagine it was an lively discussion to decide which way to go because pricing close to each other seems like you can gear sales to the buyer by presenting both and the other seems like you could capitalize on the location in relation to MK and push the envelope by asking more and hope more buyers don’t care. 

37 hours to go to find out what those at DVD decided!


----------



## Sandisw

Jelly563 said:


> For those of you who are not willing to pay more than $250 a point...... please move out of the way and stand on the side while the people with real money make their purchases.  Don't worry, the rest will be able to bid on availability at the 7month mark.



What do you mean?


----------



## Paul Stupin

Jelly563 said:


> For those of you who are not willing to pay more than $250 a point...... please move out of the way and stand on the side while the people with real money make their purchases.  Don't worry, the rest will be able to bid on availability at the 7month mark.


Don’t understand your point. Can you clarify?


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

Jelly563 said:


> For those of you who are not willing to pay more than $250 a point...... please move out of the way and stand on the side while the people with real money make their purchases.  Don't worry, the rest will be able to bid on availability at the 7month mark.


People with infinite money should just keep their flexibility to book whenever and cancel late and pay cash.


----------



## Nabas

Jelly563 said:


> Don't worry, the rest will be able to bid on availability at the 7month mark.


The addition of 202 dedicated Studios is going to radically change VGF availability, which currently has only 47 lock-off Studios.

Booking a Studio at VGF is going to become more like booking a Studio at PVB.


----------



## kmedina

Bjaiken77 said:


> I agree 100%.  If DVC is not vocal about the resale restrictions, I’d buy RIV before VGF if VGF is more expensive.  I’d likely buy RIV before VGF if they were the same price.  6 more years and my preference as a resort and proximity to parks I prefer.
> 
> I don’t see RIV as a step down at all.  I have no clue how many other people feel that way, but I hear several others who have vocalized the same.


I'll never buy RIV no matter what it's priced at. In the event I have to sell it off, I know I am selling to people who can only stay there. If VGF2 comes in with the same stupid rules, I will not buy there either no matter the cost. While I plan to hold onto my contracts forever, you just never know what the future holds. I guess Disney assigning that stupid rule to VGF2 would make it an easy decision for me to purchase VGF resale.


----------



## Sandisw

kmedina said:


> I'll never buy RIV no matter what it's priced at. In the event I have to sell it off, I know I am selling to people who can only stay there. If VGF2 comes in with the same stupid rules, I will not buy there either no matter the cost. While I plan to hold onto my contracts forever, you just never know what the future holds. I guess Disney assigning that stupid rule to VGF2 would make it an easy decision for me to purchase VGF resale.



Being part of the same association, its a pretty safe bet that it won't have those restrictions.  I think if they were going to try and do that, it would be known at this point.


----------



## kmedina

Sandisw said:


> Being part of the same association, its a pretty safe bet that it won't have those restrictions.  I think if they were going to try and do that, it would be known at this point.


My guide does not think it will either (which is all the more reason to avoid Riviera). He also hinted toward a $255 price though, which would also push me into VGF resale. Based on what your guide said, he still could be underpromising to overdeliver. I just can't wait until the 3rd when we find out. I want to buy direct, and I am still considering waiting for DLT direct and purchasing VGF resale unless VGF2 comes in the low 200s and without restrictions. Of course, I am not buying DLT direct if it comes in with the stupid restrictions and will start looking into VGC resale at that point. So, I could end up with no direct contracts or two depending on the details.


----------



## nuhusky123

imagine how much money we will all save if vgf costs more than $255 and has restrictions

our banks will be thrilled


----------



## Frugal Fairy Tales

BLT anyone!?!  (last call)


----------



## BWV Dreamin

I feel kinda like it’s a “ New Years Eve” type of night. Wish there was a DVC ball that dropped at midnight and cracked open with the opening sales price ! Hahaha…….But alas we have to wait until 9am on 3/3. Ugg….


----------



## stwaldman

Frugal Fairy Tales said:


> BLT anyone!?!  (last call)


*Calls guide at 1159*


----------



## Sandisw

kmedina said:


> My guide does not think it will either (which is all the more reason to avoid Riviera). He also hinted toward a $255 price though, which would also push me into VGF resale. Based on what your guide said, he still could be underpromising to overdeliver. I just can't wait until the 3rd when we find out. I want to buy direct, and I am still considering waiting for DLT direct and purchasing VGF resale unless VGF2 comes in the low 200s and without restrictions. Of course, I am not buying DLT direct if it comes in with the stupid restrictions and will start looking into VGC resale at that point. So, I could end up with no direct contracts or two depending on the details.



I love RIV so I do own both direct and resale as the restrictions are no big deal for us.

it is funny how we all have tried to take the hints of our guides to figure it out. I was really hoping today he was going to tell me it would be shared before Thursday but doesn’t sound like it.

Its the longest waiting game ever!!!


----------



## SpaceMountain77

Jelly563 said:


> you want a sound purchase, buy SSR



The sound purchase was OKW @ $100 per point in May 2012.  If only I knew then what I know now.


----------



## Sandisw

BWV Dreamin said:


> I feel kinda like it’s a “ New Years Eve” type of night. Wish there was a DVC ball that dropped at midnight and cracked open with the opening sales price ! Hahaha…….But alas we have to wait until 9am.



I know! I even asked my guide today what time it would drop on the website!


----------



## Bing Showei

Luggage promotion: First 500 owners to buy in at 125 points or higher will get gift luggage. 

Owners will have first dibs until sales open publicly on March 31. 

Confirmed that only VGF2 GWs will be available.

Apparently price will be something I'll be "happy" with. I swear I didn't crib that line from Sandisw; guide legit said the same thing. In my case, it's much less affirming considering I never discussed price with them. Maybe they mixed me up with one of the five billion other people on their spreadsheet to call? 

Everyone at the Mouse's timeshare office is anticipating pointocalypse come Thursday.... as in all hands on deck. Lots of points will be sold.

I understand the economic fundamentals of supply and demand, so can't argue on that basis with those who are chomping at the bit to gloat about how they 'nailed it' by predicting Riviera-level "cheap," but given the preponderance of Mickey Math that drives the Disney timeshare machine...

- depreciating assets who's value increases apparently in perpetuity
- timeshare financing practices that will negate savings
- the sheer number of people who will buy a five-figure real estate interest that they didn't even know existed when they scanned their magic band that morning
- "If they price too high, I'll just buy Riviera instead. That'll show DVD!"
- BCV direct

... I'm hard pressed to say anything with certainty when it comes to Disney timeshare pricing no matter how much it might make sense.


----------



## nuhusky123

Bing Showei said:


> Luggage promotion: First 500 owners to buy in at 125 points or higher will get gift luggage.
> 
> Owners will have first dibs until sales open publicly on March 31.
> 
> Confirmed that only VGF2 GWs will be available.
> 
> Apparently price will be something I'll be "happy" with. I swear I didn't crib that line from Sandisw; guide legit said the same thing. In my case, it's much less affirming considering I never discussed price with them. Maybe they mixed me up with one of the five billion other people on their spreadsheet to call?
> 
> Everyone at the Mouse's timeshare office is anticipating pointocalypse come Thursday.... as in all hands on deck. Lots of points will be sold.
> 
> I understand the economic fundamentals of supply and demand, so can't argue on that basis with those who are chomping at the bit to gloat about how they 'nailed it' by predicting Riviera-level "cheap," but given the preponderance of Mickey Math that drives the Disney timeshare machine...
> 
> - depreciating assets who's value increases apparently in perpetuity
> - timeshare financing practices that will negate savings
> - the sheer number of people who will buy a five-figure real estate interest that they didn't even know existed when they scanned their magic band that morning
> - "If they price too high, I'll just buy Riviera instead. That'll show DVD!"
> - BCV direct
> 
> ... I'm hard pressed to say anything with certainty when it comes to Disney timeshare pricing no matter how much it might make sense.


My guide said first 500 buyers get a gift. What’s the luggage you are hearing about?


----------



## rubybutt

Frugal Fairy Tales said:


> BLT anyone!?!  (last call)



Put in my deposit today.  SO I can decide BLT, VGF2, or nothing in the next 10 days.


----------



## sethschroeder

RamblinWreck said:


> They don’t sell you on just Riviera. They sell you on being able to book anywhere. Since all the points count the same, are people really going to buy that the home resort booking window is worth even $1 per point premium?



They already do. During the covid age at WDW they were showing, discounting, and selling all the resorts.


----------



## sethschroeder

BWV Dreamin said:


> If people were going to buy RIV they would have done so.



They have since the start as before Covid it was actually trending towards a fairly quick sell out. 

At this point DVC is just selling slower in general partly due to price increases likely.

My though is if we are selling less regardless we might as well sell for a higher price point and get the most out of the lesser number of sales. 

Who knows what will happen.


----------



## tidefan

Just had another thought that I hadn't seen discussed.  Any thoughts on what affect this will have on maintenance?  Positive, negative, or neutral?


----------



## Royal Consort

Marionnette said:


> They have to raise the floor somewhat because, as Pete pointed out, DLT is next out of the box. DVC needs to slowly boil us frogs in anticipation of an even higher base price for DLT.



I don't buy this reasoning. The Florida product and the California product are two different markets. Sure, there are many East Coast owners who want DL but the majority of points sold will be on the West Coast. They need to price DLT competitively at the same time reintroduce the DVC product which has had almost no presence in California in some time. VGF2 pricing is going to be independent of DLT.


----------



## Bjaiken77

Royal Consort said:


> I don't buy this reasoning. The Florida product and the California product are two different markets. Sure, there are many East Coast owners who want DL but the majority of points sold will be on the West Coast. They need to price DLT competitively at the same time reintroduce the DVC product which has had almost no presence in California in some time. VGF2 pricing is going to be independent of DLT.



I look at it the same as you.  That’s my guess, at least!


----------



## Ruttangel

On DVC website 
“Experience unmatched luxury at The Villas at Disney’s Grand Floridian Resort & Spa, located at Walt Disney World Resort in Florida. As the* crown jewel* of Disney Vacation Club, this beloved Resort offers relaxing stays in accommodations featuring a harmonious blend of Victorian elegance and modern comforts.”
Would you price a crown jewel the same as other on sale resorts?
I will be shocked if not $220 at least


----------



## Sandisw

Bing Showei said:


> Luggage promotion: First 500 owners to buy in at 125 points or higher will get gift luggage.
> 
> Owners will have first dibs until sales open publicly on March 31.
> 
> Confirmed that only VGF2 GWs will be available.
> 
> Apparently price will be something I'll be "happy" with. I swear I didn't crib that line from Sandisw; guide legit said the same thing. In my case, it's much less affirming considering I never discussed price with them. Maybe they mixed me up with one of the five billion other people on their spreadsheet to call?
> 
> Everyone at the Mouse's timeshare office is anticipating pointocalypse come Thursday.... as in all hands on deck. Lots of points will be sold.
> 
> I understand the economic fundamentals of supply and demand, so can't argue on that basis with those who are chomping at the bit to gloat about how they 'nailed it' by predicting Riviera-level "cheap," but given the preponderance of Mickey Math that drives the Disney timeshare machine...
> 
> - depreciating assets who's value increases apparently in perpetuity
> - timeshare financing practices that will negate savings
> - the sheer number of people who will buy a five-figure real estate interest that they didn't even know existed when they scanned their magic band that morning
> - "If they price too high, I'll just buy Riviera instead. That'll show DVD!"
> - BCV direct
> 
> ... I'm hard pressed to say anything with certainty when it comes to Disney timeshare pricing no matter how much it might make sense.



I didn’t hear about the potential luggage gift! Lol

Let’s hope my state gets its act together and my being happy means I will!!


----------



## DisneyMom_3

Sandisw said:


> I didn’t hear about the potential luggage gift! Lol
> 
> Let’s hope my state gets its act together and my being happy means I will!!


Now, I want to see the luggage gift and know the price! My guide is calling me in the afternoon and I’m wondering if I should have him call earlier.


----------



## nuhusky123

DisneyMom_3 said:


> Now, I want to see the luggage gift and know the price! My guide is calling me in the afternoon and I’m wondering if I should have him call earlier.


Watch it be some cheap Fanny pack 

however on the flip side if it’s some cool limited edition roller bag with the gfv picture on it, that would be very cool


----------



## DisneyMom_3

nuhusky123 said:


> Watch it be some cheap Fanny pack
> 
> however on the flip side if it’s some cool limited edition roller bag with the gfv picture on it, that would be very cool


You’re probably right! 
But, I’ll be bummed if I miss out on a limited edition bag because of work!


----------



## Bjaiken77

nuhusky123 said:


> Watch it be some cheap Fanny pack
> 
> however on the flip side if it’s some cool limited edition roller bag with the gfv picture on it, that would be very cool



Sounds like another secret that DVC won’t reveal until tomorrow.  That list keeps growing


----------



## princesscinderella

RIV has really cute luggage for sale I got the small beauty one it’s so cute!  Here’s what it looks like.  https://www.ebay.com/itm/234438627047
Maybe the luggage gift will be something similar.


----------



## dfan_welcomehomeall_19

One to go!

It’s been great reading and participating in all the speculation but I’m ready and hoping for Xmas morning


----------



## lowlight

It’s been fun chatting about it, but I’m one of those people FOMO has the opposite effect on.  Playing hard to get doesn’t make me want it more, it actually kills my desire.  I almost placed a bid on a resale Poly contract last night out of spite, but got talked out of it.


----------



## CaptainAmerica

I haven't 100% kept up on this thread, but do we expect them to drop some new incentives at other resorts tomorrow to give their guides some different price points to work with?



lowlight said:


> I almost placed a bid on a resale Poly contract last night out of spite...


That's the spirit!


----------



## Sandisw

CaptainAmerica said:


> I haven't 100% kept up on this thread, but do we expect them to drop some new incentives at other resorts tomorrow to give their guides some different price points to work with?
> 
> 
> That's the spirit!



I think just RIV and AUL with VGF tomorrow and potentially other resorts later

If this comes out with similar costs like BLT just did it could be seen as the new/old resort being lowered.

Hmmm…maybe that is why they just did BLT…so they can do VGF lower on its heels and it won’t seem so out of the norm.

24 hours to go!!


----------



## DonMacGregor

nuhusky123 said:


> My guide said first 500 buyers get a gift. What’s the luggage you are hearing about?


I think we now know where the DVC backpacks went…


----------



## CaptainAmerica

Sandisw said:


> I think just RIV and AUL with VGF tomorrow and potentially other resorts later
> 
> If this comes out with similar costs like BLT just did it could be seen as the new/old resort being lowered.
> 
> Hmmm…maybe that is why they just did BLT…so they can do VGF lower on its heels and it won’t seem so out of the norm.
> 
> 24 hours to go!!


BLT wasn't cheap though, because it was starting at such a high "sold out" price.  The incentives brought it down closer to the Riviera neighborhood, but it was much higher to begin with.


----------



## DisneyMom_3

princesscinderella said:


> RIV has really cute luggage for sale I got the small beauty one it’s so cute!  Here’s what it looks like.  https://www.ebay.com/itm/234438627047
> Maybe the luggage gift will be something similar.


That’s adorable! Thanks for sharing!


----------



## CaptainAmerica

DonMacGregor said:


> I think we now know where the DVC backpacks went…


I wonder how many backpacks you could buy with the savings from going resale.


----------



## Nabas

DonMacGregor said:


> I think we now know where the DVC backpacks went…


“Gee, these backpacks are not selling.  What are we going to do with them?”

“I know! Let’s offer them as an incentive to the first 500 Grand Floridian buyers! We can charge the cost to DVD and write them off!”


----------



## Sandisw

CaptainAmerica said:


> BLT wasn't cheap though, because it was starting at such a high "sold out" price.  The incentives brought it down closer to the Riviera neighborhood, but it was much higher to begin with.



I know but my point was that it could have been a strategy to allow the start price of VGF closer to RIV to begin with..which is what I think will happen.

Regardless, it still brought BLT down and could help them if VGF comes in lower than the $255 base it had.

200 points was $202. They can come in with VGF at that level now and it won’t be seen so out of whack given what they just did for BLT.


----------



## CaptainAmerica

Sandisw said:


> I know but my point was that it could have been a strategy to allow the start price of VGF closer to RIV to begin with..which is what I think will happen.
> 
> Regardless, it still brought BLT down and could help them if VGF comes in lower than the $255 base it had.
> 
> 200 points was $202. They can come in with VGF at that level now and it won’t be seen so out of whack given what they just did for BLT.


Oh I don't think there was any need for them to do that.  VGF was sold out, now it isn't.  So it used to be priced like a sold out resort, and now it'll be priced like a not-sold-out resort.


----------



## Sandisw

CaptainAmerica said:


> Oh I don't think there was any need for them to do that.  VGF was sold out, now it isn't.  So it used to be priced like a sold out resort, and now it'll be priced like a not-sold-out resort.



I agree. But just saying maybe they decided they wanted to find a way to ease in to the strategy…lol


----------



## Einstein509

Nabas said:


> The difference is, pre-pandemic, Disney had plans to increase theme park prices even further beyond their increased costs.


Wait, what?!?

Where did you hear this?  And if so, why didn't they already?  The parks are packed so strategically it makes sense to increase prices even more.


----------



## CaptainAmerica

Nabas said:


> The difference is, pre-pandemic, Disney had plans to increase theme park prices even further beyond their increased costs.


Genie+ has been the single biggest price increase in park history.


----------



## tidefan

CaptainAmerica said:


> BLT wasn't cheap though, because it was starting at such a high "sold out" price.  The incentives brought it down closer to the Riviera neighborhood, but it was much higher to begin with.


I bought BLT for $110 / point...


----------



## LisaDKG

CaptainAmerica said:


> BLT wasn't cheap though, because it was starting at such a high "sold out" price.



We were looking at adding on 100 points at BLT before this promo ends which would have brought the price down to $233 for us.  Then to hedge our bets we'd watch the price reveal on March 3rd, and 'hopefully' seeing that VGF would be the cheaper one, we'd switch the paperwork.  
Our guide thought this was a good strategy but when we really did the math and looked again at resale prices (we have 1 direct BLT contract and 1 resale VGC contract) we realized we aren't even willing to pay the promo'd direct price for more BLT.  So then we told him we'd more than likely add on 100 on Thursday at VGF as long as the price was right.  

The past few days I too was thinking that the price will be slightly higher than RIV and AUL and not near the high prices discussed on DVC Fan - I am guessing $225.  Further incentives would definitely make me buy. 

BUT when relaying my new plan to just go with GVF,  my guide said "Great! Now no firm details but plan on saving space on your credit card for the 10% down payment and closing costs, which could be in the ballpark of $3500."
 
I didn't really like this comment - correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't that make the price for 100 pts work out to around $250 - if we assume closing to be $1000?  
It's been running through my head ever since and I'll be so sad if that's true (or at least I'll forget about adding on direct and look at resale for different resorts)
Maybe he was planning for lots of cushioning as we'd easily be convinced to add more points when seeing the low price?  Maybe he was taking into account that I'm Canadian and would be using a Cdn credit card??? 
I think I need another hobby.


----------



## LisaDKG

tidefan said:


> I bought BLT for $110 / point...


We bought BLT in 2011 for $112.  That seemed sooo high then!  
We don't speak aloud what we paid resale for our VGC last October.   
But we live in western Canada and love Disneyland too.


----------



## RamblinWreck

LisaDKG said:


> We were looking at adding on 100 points at BLT before this promo ends which would have brought the price down to $233 for us.  Then to hedge our bets we'd watch the price reveal on March 3rd, and 'hopefully' seeing that VGF would be the cheaper one, we'd switch the paperwork.
> Our guide thought this was a good strategy but when we really did the math and looked again at resale prices (we have 1 direct BLT contract and 1 resale VGC contract) we realized we aren't even willing to pay the promo'd direct price for more BLT.  So then we told him we'd more than likely add on 100 on Thursday at VGF as long as the price was right.
> 
> The past few days I too was thinking that the price will be slightly higher than RIV and AUL and not near the high prices discussed on DVC Fan - I am guessing $225.  Further incentives would definitely make me buy.
> 
> BUT when relaying my new plan to just go with GVF,  my guide said "Great! Now no firm details but plan on saving space on your credit card for the 10% down payment and closing costs, which could be in the ballpark of $3500."
> 
> I didn't really like this comment - correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't that make the price for 100 pts work out to around $250 - if we assume closing to be $1000?
> It's been running through my head ever since and I'll be so sad if that's true (or at least I'll forget about adding on direct and look at resale for different resorts)
> Maybe he was planning for lots of cushioning as we'd easily be convinced to add more points when seeing the low price?  Maybe he was taking into account that I'm Canadian and would be using a Cdn credit card???
> I think I need another hobby.


Maybe it's coming in high.

Or maybe these guys really haven't heard anything about what the price will be, and everything they tell you is based on the fact that they knew it used to be $255.


----------



## AvidDisReader

My fearless prediction, minimum of 150,000 points will be sold in first month (and quite frankly it would not surprise me is it comes close to 200,000).


----------



## Chuck96

I think it will easily be that.  I don't have to make a decision until 1 April, so no rush here.


----------



## HIRyeDVC

Sandisw said:


> I think just RIV and AUL with VGF tomorrow and potentially other resorts later
> 
> If this comes out with similar costs like BLT just did it could be seen as the new/old resort being lowered.
> 
> Hmmm…maybe that is why they just did BLT…so they can do VGF lower on its heels and it won’t seem so out of the norm.
> 
> 24 hours to go!!


OMG, tomorrow is going to be the day of days! Move aside Y2K, or 2012! It’s the most anticipated day in MY short DVC life!


----------



## CarolMN

Wonder if the Member Add-On tool will be available for VGF2 tomorrow?  If so, that might be the easiest / fastest way to go for those of us prepared to pay cash.    (I'm not really interested in joining the 'crowd' tomorrow, though).


----------



## DeeBee3

Unless it's the deal of a lifetime, I'm not buying anything, but I have been enjoying this festive spirit with everyone!

I'll still be anxiously checking the site and the emails from my guide. I guess it's just FOMO.


----------



## davidl81

AvidDisReader said:


> My fearless prediction, minimum of 150,000 points will be sold in first month (and quite frankly it would not surprise me is it comes close to 200,000).


I don’t know if sales will be that high.  Park attendance still drives most DVC sales and I’d think you need park attendance back to pre covid levels to get 150k+ points.


----------



## SusieQ93

lowlight said:


> It’s been fun chatting about it, but I’m one of those people FOMO has the opposite effect on.  Playing hard to get doesn’t make me want it more, it actually kills my desire.  I almost placed a bid on a resale Poly contract last night out of spite, but got talked out of it.


Right?! I’m so the same! I’m second guessing now like “am I sure I want this?”


----------



## HappyThoughtsTees

I haven't been following this thread for long as I have no skin in this game, but I'm surprised by the number of people who believe that Disney follows the logic of supply and demand. Disney and logic have not always had a working relationship. Grand Floridian is touted as the most luxurious WDW DVC property. Who cares if they have 2M points to move, they'll sit on those points and run incentives the future if they must. If that price per point is under $255 (before incentives) I'll be shocked...especially if it's introduced without restrictions. You want unrestricted points that aren't in Hawaii? You are going to pay the premium for them. Can't wait for tomorrow.


----------



## Marionnette

tidefan said:


> I bought BLT for $110 / point...





LisaDKG said:


> We bought BLT in 2011 for $112.  That seemed sooo high then!
> We don't speak aloud what we paid resale for our VGC last October.
> But we live in western Canada and love Disneyland too.


I bought VGF resale @$141 in 2017. The resort was sold out in 2015 at a base price of $165 pp. These predicted prices for VGF2 make my head spin!


----------



## kdm31091

DVC creates a lot of FOMO and emotion but on a practical level, to be honest I don't see the huge appeal of this particular resort/expansion, considering BLT offers most of the same advantages of VGF and more flexibility in room choices, along with a far better points chart so your money goes further. If you have an attachment to VGF, I get it, but there's really not a huge selling point for this flip unless you really want studios near MK and don't like BLT (or even Poly for that matter). Keep in mind you can still enjoy VGF's dining and shopping, vibe, etc without owning there.

Because the product offers only pretty basic studios in the new building, you'd think the price should be lower to reflect that, but I really doubt it will be. Yes, you have options in the VGF1 building but now you have that many more people fighting for them. If it's priced at $255 a point I just can't see the reason to spend it when you have several others options in the MK area that cost less and offer essentially the same location.

I have no problem with VGF and we'd like to try it out and stay there someday but I don't see much reason to own there because the point chart is very high and BLT is a considerably less expensive option (in initial price and point chart) for basically the same location.


----------



## RoseGold

I just listened to a podcast defend pricing at $207, and I have to say I was tempted for a minute.

But I don't trust DVC's future construction plans.  If they're willing to sell VGF that low, then who knows what they will do next?  No reason they couldn't print points by slapping up another loser, off site property.  Or worse, convert a failed one somewhere.  VGF pricing low is a bad sign.  It means DVC isn't holding its spread against resale, and is desperate enough to be competing in resale.  The extensive ROFR has shown they are already moving towards this strategy.

DVC has shown no loyalty to Blue Cards.  They couldn't be bothered to slap a $100 discount on the Incredipass, and now they have really let DVC down, by not fighting for Blue Cards to buy APs at all, even Pixie Dust passes.  I can buy my own evening ticket when the year-round party, hard-ticket strategy returns, which I don't think will take long.

If VGF opens at $207, it will send shockwaves through resale.  Maybe I'll be ready to buy a resale Poly contract or a resale BLT.  Maybe I'll be chilling at the July Halloween party at resale Poly instead.


----------



## davidl81

RoseGold said:


> I just listened to a podcast defend pricing at $207, and I have to say I was tempted for a minute.
> 
> But I don't trust DVC's future construction plans.  If they're willing to sell VGF that low, then who knows what they will do next?  No reason they couldn't print points by slapping up another loser, off site property.  Or worse, convert a failed one somewhere.  VGF pricing low is a bad sign.  It means DVC isn't holding its spread against resale, and is desperate enough to be competing in resale.  The extensive ROFR has shown they are already moving towards this strategy.
> 
> DVC has shown no loyalty to Blue Cards.  They couldn't be bothered to slap a $100 discount on the Incredipass, and now they have really let DVC down, by not fighting for Blue Cards to buy APs at all, even Pixie Dust passes.  I can buy my own evening ticket when the year-round party, hard-ticket strategy returns, which I don't think will take long.
> 
> If VGF opens at $207, it will send shockwaves through resale.  Maybe I'll be ready to buy a resale Poly contract or a resale BLT.  Maybe I'll be chilling at the July Halloween party at resale Poly instead.


I love how DVC has manufactured the idea in peoples head that $207pp is “low”.  That is the pixie dust magic right there, they can list VGF at $207 and a majority of people on here will consider that a steal.  When 2.5 years ago RIV opened at $188.
Remember VGF opened in 2013 at $145 and factoring inflation that would be $175 in today dollars.  So even opening at $207 would be an actual 18% increase in opening prices when factoring for inflation.  Yet DVC has made people think that’s a “low” price.


----------



## RamblinWreck

RoseGold said:


> I just listened to a podcast defend pricing at $207, and I have to say I was tempted for a minute.
> 
> But I don't trust DVC's future construction plans.  If they're willing to sell VGF that low, then who knows what they will do next?  No reason they couldn't print points by slapping up another loser, off site property.  Or worse, convert a failed one somewhere.  VGF pricing low is a bad sign.  It means DVC isn't holding its spread against resale, and is desperate enough to be competing in resale.  The extensive ROFR has shown they are already moving towards this strategy.
> 
> DVC has shown no loyalty to Blue Cards.  They couldn't be bothered to slap a $100 discount on the Incredipass, and now they have really let DVC down, by not fighting for Blue Cards to buy APs at all, even Pixie Dust passes.  I can buy my own evening ticket when the year-round party, hard-ticket strategy returns, which I don't think will take long.
> 
> If VGF opens at $207, it will send shockwaves through resale.  Maybe I'll be ready to buy a resale Poly contract or a resale BLT.  Maybe I'll be chilling at the July Halloween party at resale Poly instead.


I don't think DVC direct maintains a spread vs resale. Resale maintains a spread vs direct prices.

And really, DVC sets both of those prices.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

DisneyMom_3 said:


> Now, I want to see the luggage gift and know the price! My guide is calling me in the afternoon and I’m wondering if I should have him call earlier.


Didnt you hear? Its a backpack....LOL


----------



## BWV Dreamin

CarolMN said:


> Wonder if the Member Add-On tool will be available for VGF2 tomorrow?  If so, that might be the easiest / fastest way to go for those of us prepared to pay cash.    (I'm not really interested in joining the 'crowd' tomorrow, though).


You sure no how to kill a party! Will miss you....


----------



## Sandisw

CarolMN said:


> Wonder if the Member Add-On tool will be available for VGF2 tomorrow?  If so, that might be the easiest / fastest way to go for those of us prepared to pay cash.    (I'm not really interested in joining the 'crowd' tomorrow, though).



You mean you are not going to check the website after midnight like me??

Just kidding. I won’t be doing that!!


----------



## Nabas

RoseGold said:


> If VGF opens at $207, it will send shockwaves through resale.


Maybe that’s exactly what Disney wants.

Disney keeps taking away resale benefits and adding restrictions, yet resale prices remain high.  Disney seems determined to crush the resale market.


----------



## RamblinWreck

Nabas said:


> Maybe that’s exactly what Disney wants.
> 
> Disney keeps taking away resale benefits and adding restrictions, yet resale prices remain high.  Disney seems determined to crush the resale market.


If they were that determined to crush resale, you'd think they would actually have some blue card benefits.


----------



## smmora

Sandisw said:


> You mean you are not going to check the website after midnight like me??
> 
> Just kidding. I won’t be doing that!!



I will, but technically that's only 9pm for me


----------



## Frugal Fairy Tales

I have to confess that after reading this thread I am actually surprised how tight some of you seem to be with your guide.  I have a very nice guide but I really don't have much contact with him.  If only he knew how easy it would be to persuade me to buy more points    Thank goodness he isn't reaching out and pushing me over the fence. LOL.


----------



## CaptainAmerica

RoseGold said:


> No reason they couldn't print points by slapping up another loser, off site property.


I mean, other than the fact that nobody would buy it.

They have a winner off-site property in Ko Olina and they still can't sell the damn thing.


----------



## DonMacGregor

Frugal Fairy Tales said:


> I have to confess that after reading this thread I am actually surprised how tight some of you seem to be with your guide.  I have a very nice guide but I really don't have much contact with him.  If only he knew how easy it would be to persuade me to buy more points    Thank goodness he isn't reaching out and pushing me over the fence. LOL.


For some, I think the relationship is more akin to that with a clergyman or recovery sponsor...but with an enabling/codependence component.


----------



## Nabas

RamblinWreck said:


> If they were that determined to crush resale, you'd think they would actually have some blue card benefits.


Adding blue card benefits costs them money.

Taking away white card benefits saves them money.


----------



## Marionnette

Nabas said:


> Maybe that’s exactly what Disney wants.
> 
> Disney keeps taking away resale benefits and adding restrictions, yet resale prices remain high.  Disney seems determined to crush the resale market.


There are other ways to crush the resale market. The most current restriction was probably the most effective to date but still isn't draconian enough to kill resales. And I think it may have had a small impact on RIV sales, otherwise we would have seen a VGF2 conversion to a brand new condo association like CCV. I won't list my thoughts on other methods to discourage resale purchases because I don't want to give Disney any ideas.

But OTOH, DVC needs a robust resale industry to lend legitimacy to its high purchase price. I believe that ROFR helps to keep the resale prices artificially high in order the keep the margin between direct and resale as small as possible.


----------



## CaptainAmerica

Frugal Fairy Tales said:


> I have to confess that after reading this thread I am actually surprised how tight some of you seem to be with your guide.  I have a very nice guide but I really don't have much contact with him.  If only he knew how easy it would be to persuade me to buy more points    Thank goodness he isn't reaching out and pushing me over the fence. LOL.


Having never purchased direct, I didn't even realize I HAD a guide, as in "any DVC person you speak to becomes your guide and if you go speak to some new DVC person, that person replaces the first person as your guide."

I talked to a woman on the Magic in December and she was asking me about my guide Brian, or whatever his name was.  I hadn't the foggiest idea what she was talking about, until I figured out that I had spoken to some guy Brian on live chat two years prior and he had apparently become "my guide" at that time.


----------



## DisneyMom_3

kdm31091 said:


> DVC creates a lot of FOMO and emotion but on a practical level, to be honest I don't see the huge appeal of this particular resort/expansion, considering BLT offers most of the same advantages of VGF and more flexibility in room choices, along with a far better points chart so your money goes further. If you have an attachment to VGF, I get it, but there's really not a huge selling point for this flip unless you really want studios near MK and don't like BLT (or even Poly for that matter). Keep in mind you can still enjoy VGF's dining and shopping, vibe, etc without owning there.
> 
> Because the product offers only pretty basic studios in the new building, you'd think the price should be lower to reflect that, but I really doubt it will be. Yes, you have options in the VGF1 building but now you have that many more people fighting for them. If it's priced at $255 a point I just can't see the reason to spend it when you have several others options in the MK area that cost less and offer essentially the same location.
> 
> I have no problem with VGF and we'd like to try it out and stay there someday but I don't see much reason to own there because the point chart is very high and BLT is a considerably less expensive option (in initial price and point chart) for basically the same location.


We are a family of 5, so studios at BLT are not an option. VGF is the only monorail resort that offers Studios that sleep 5 AND larger 1 and 2 BR villas.


----------



## SusieQ93

davidl81 said:


> I love how DVC has manufactured the idea in peoples head that $207pp is “low”.  That is the pixie dust magic right there, they can list VGF at $207 and a majority of people on here will consider that a steal.  When 2.5 years ago RIV opened at $188.
> Remember VGF opened in 2013 at $145 and factoring inflation that would be $175 in today dollars.  So even opening at $207 would be an actual 18% increase in opening prices when factoring for inflation.  Yet DVC has made people think that’s a “low” price.


I know! Was just thinking that. We all are brainwashed. $207 pp is a big buy in at 150 pts. And you have to remember most people buying are going to be new members. They likely never heard that $255 Pp price. That’s who guides will mostly have to convince it’s worth it. What do you all do for work who think $31k on a non-essential luxury purchase is cheap? I’m in the wrong line of work clearly


----------



## Bjaiken77

There is one thing you all can know for certain: I don’t work for DVC.  If I did, I would have blabbed the price all over the message boards today.  I can’t keep a secret like that.


----------



## SusieQ93

Bjaiken77 said:


> There is one thing you all can know for certain: I don’t work for DVC.  If I did, I would have blabbed the price all over the message boards today.  I can’t keep a secret like that.


Same. I said it before, but my job is fairly boring and I don’t hold any interesting secrets. Probably a good thing.


----------



## DisneyMom_3

Sandisw said:


> You mean you are not going to check the website after midnight like me??
> 
> Just kidding. I won’t be doing that!!


I would if I thought there was any chance the price would be listed!


----------



## Paul Stupin

My guide has a smart plan for tomorrow. He’s going to be emailing all of his buyers who have expressed interest all the info, including pricing sheets, point charts, incentives, etc, as soon as he gets it early in the morning, so that when he calls everyone will know the specific financials.


----------



## lowlight

RoseGold said:


> I just listened to a podcast defend pricing at $207, and I have to say I was tempted for a minute.
> 
> But I don't trust DVC's future construction plans.  If they're willing to sell VGF that low, then who knows what they will do next?  No reason they couldn't print points by slapping up another loser, off site property.  Or worse, convert a failed one somewhere.  VGF pricing low is a bad sign.  It means DVC isn't holding its spread against resale, and is desperate enough to be competing in resale.  The extensive ROFR has shown they are already moving towards this strategy.



I said earlier I’m really interested to see their pricing strategy because it will reveal some of their future plans. The parks and resorts are so busy, I’m shocked Reflections isn’t back in the cards, but a competitive price at VGF2 tomorrow will almost certainly prove they’ve abandoned new resorts for these cheap flips.  Most here are going to be happy with cheap VGF2 tomorrow, but to me it’s a sign that the glory days are over for DVC.  I’ll likely buy if it’s low just to get a good 3 resort contract spread and that will be my third and final contract.


----------



## SJFSTravelMatt

We just bought in last November.  Our guide just emailed this morning to gauge our interest in adding on tomorrow.


----------



## HappyThoughtsTees

Marionnette said:


> There are other ways to crush the resale market. The most current restriction was probably the most effective to date but still isn't draconian enough to kill resales. And I think it may have had a small impact on RIV sales, otherwise we would have seen a VGF2 conversion to a brand new condo association like CCV. I won't list my thoughts on other methods to discourage resale purchases because I don't want to give Disney any ideas.
> 
> But OTOH, DVC needs a robust resale industry to lend legitimacy to its high purchase price. I believe that ROFR helps to keep the resale prices artificially high in order the keep the margin between direct and resale as small as possible.



I agree that DVC needs robust resale industry to thrive. One of the reasons I purchased points instead of continuing to rent is that in a pinch I could sell and not be completely underwater. Other timeshares don't offer that possibility, as far as I know. Take away the safety net of the resale market and you have a less enticing product.


----------



## Sandisw

Frugal Fairy Tales said:


> I have to confess that after reading this thread I am actually surprised how tight some of you seem to be with your guide.  I have a very nice guide but I really don't have much contact with him.  If only he knew how easy it would be to persuade me to buy more points    Thank goodness he isn't reaching out and pushing me over the fence. LOL.



My contact with him is when I know I am adding on.  Other than that, I don't talk to him or hear from him and that is cool.  I reached out to him in the last month because I knew that I was going to add VGF, assuming the price is right for me.

It is just the last week that I have talked to him a lot to get answers to questions or for him to update me (like yesterday about the whole potential NY issue)....once I buy, it will be radio silence again until the next time!  LOL


----------



## Paul Stupin

RoseGold said:


> I just listened to a podcast defend pricing at $207, and I have to say I was tempted for a minute.
> 
> But I don't trust DVC's future construction plans.  If they're willing to sell VGF that low, then who knows what they will do next?  No reason they couldn't print points by slapping up another loser, off site property.  Or worse, convert a failed one somewhere.  VGF pricing low is a bad sign.  It means DVC isn't holding its spread against resale, and is desperate enough to be competing in resale.  The extensive ROFR has shown they are already moving towards this strategy.
> 
> DVC has shown no loyalty to Blue Cards.  They couldn't be bothered to slap a $100 discount on the Incredipass, and now they have really let DVC down, by not fighting for Blue Cards to buy APs at all, even Pixie Dust passes.  I can buy my own evening ticket when the year-round party, hard-ticket strategy returns, which I don't think will take long.
> 
> If VGF opens at $207, it will send shockwaves through resale.  Maybe I'll be ready to buy a resale Poly contract or a resale BLT.  Maybe I'll be chilling at the July Halloween party at resale Poly instead.



So you’re switching from one apocalyptic vision to another now. First, the VGF2 price was going to be “sky high,” I believe higher than $275. Now you’re leaning toward $207, but apparently that’s an equally horrible option, because it’s just way too low and will upend resale and is thus a “very bad sign.” Uh, ok. First, $207 is hardly a fire sale…it’s also the current price of other equally high quality properties, Riviera and of course your favorite, Aulani. It’s the current going rate for non sold out resorts, plain and simple. And now, somehow, you regard this as a sign of the entire system breaking down.

I actually don’t think it will be the end of the world for VGF resale either. At $180 it’s still a $30 pp savings. In the immediate term, VGF direct prices will go up, and in the long term it will sell out in a couple years and resale prices will be right back where they are now.


----------



## RoseGold

Paul Stupin said:


> So you’re switching from one apocalyptic vision to another now. First, the VGF2 price was going to be “sky high,” I believe higher than $275. Now you’re leaning toward $207, but apparently that’s an equally horrible option, because it’s just way too low and will upend resale and is thus a “very bad sign.” Uh, ok. First, $207 is hardly a fire sale…it’s also the current price of other equally high quality properties, Riviera and of course your favorite, Aulani. It’s the current going rate for non sold out resorts, plain and simple. And now, somehow, you regard this as a sign of the entire system breaking down.



LOL, you're in a speculation thread right now.  I don't have any more information than anybody else.  

But yes, I'm an owner.  Of VGF1 in particular.   I care about the value of my points.  Devaluing my points, like the Aulani fire sale, like the BLT fire sale, which I still don't understand, and selling VGF2 for slightly over what resale has been for the last year, is what I consider a bad sign for the value of the product I own.  And it's a bad sign about the kind of decision making DVC could do, because they have a lot of options that don't line up with the interests of owners if they really need cash.

Great news for Disney though.  Printing points with cheap flips, hooray!  Sell it out!


----------



## Sandisw

Paul Stupin said:


> My guide has a smart plan for tomorrow. He’s going to be emailing all of his buyers who have expressed interest all the info, including pricing sheets, point charts, incentives, etc, as soon as he gets it early in the morning, so that when he calls everyone will know the specific financials.



Mine will be doing the same, providing they get the approval needed for NY buyers today to get it.  That will be the killer if they do not!


----------



## Bjaiken77

RoseGold said:


> I just listened to a podcast defend pricing at $207, and I have to say I was tempted for a minute.
> 
> But I don't trust DVC's future construction plans.  If they're willing to sell VGF that low, then who knows what they will do next?  No reason they couldn't print points by slapping up another loser, off site property.  Or worse, convert a failed one somewhere.  VGF pricing low is a bad sign.  It means DVC isn't holding its spread against resale, and is desperate enough to be competing in resale.  The extensive ROFR has shown they are already moving towards this strategy.
> 
> DVC has shown no loyalty to Blue Cards.  They couldn't be bothered to slap a $100 discount on the Incredipass, and now they have really let DVC down, by not fighting for Blue Cards to buy APs at all, even Pixie Dust passes.  I can buy my own evening ticket when the year-round party, hard-ticket strategy returns, which I don't think will take long.
> 
> If VGF opens at $207, it will send shockwaves through resale.  Maybe I'll be ready to buy a resale Poly contract or a resale BLT.  Maybe I'll be chilling at the July Halloween party at resale Poly instead.



You make a lot of good points, but even if it starts that low, they can raise the price quickly.  I think that’s where a lot of the enthusiasm lies - get in before they do that.

I do think about selling contracts if I get in a bind - I can’t say I don’t.  But otherwise, even if the price drops off the table, I’m “stuck” going to VGF, RIV, and other DVC resorts for a long time.  It could be worse.


----------



## EYL

davidl81 said:


> I love how DVC has manufactured the idea in peoples head that $207pp is “low”.  That is the pixie dust magic right there, they can list VGF at $207 and a majority of people on here will consider that a steal.  When 2.5 years ago RIV opened at $188.
> Remember VGF opened in 2013 at $145 and factoring inflation that would be $175 in today dollars.  So even opening at $207 would be an actual 18% increase in opening prices when factoring for inflation.  Yet DVC has made people think that’s a “low” price.



Which is quite interesting to think about...  I mean, at $145 for 50 years, it's $2.90 per point per year.  If it's $207 for 42 years, it works out to $4.93 per point per year.  A 70% increase without factoring in inflation, and 41% if you do!  I guess it all boils down to marketing and it's no wonder Chapek earns that nice hefty paycheck...


----------



## sethschroeder

Paul Stupin said:


> $207 is hardly a fire sale



To be fair the resale price has been hovering between $180-$199 for the top and bottom 25% limit on resold contracts. That will impact those reselling if points directly from Disney are $207. For 150 points you are looking at a $1200-$4050 premium to get direct points or just 4%-13% premium which is not much honestly.


Edit to add: My information is collected directly from Orange County Deed Filings, so it will not map up to the ROFR thread on this site which is only a subset of sales.


----------



## Frugal Fairy Tales

RoseGold said:


> I just listened to a podcast defend pricing at $207, and I have to say I was tempted for a minute.
> 
> But I don't trust DVC's future construction plans.  If they're willing to sell VGF that low, then who knows what they will do next?  No reason they couldn't print points by slapping up another loser, off site property.  Or worse, convert a failed one somewhere.  VGF pricing low is a bad sign.  It means DVC isn't holding its spread against resale, and is desperate enough to be competing in resale.  The extensive ROFR has shown they are already moving towards this strategy.
> 
> DVC has shown no loyalty to Blue Cards.  They couldn't be bothered to slap a $100 discount on the Incredipass, and now they have really let DVC down, by not fighting for Blue Cards to buy APs at all, even Pixie Dust passes.  I can buy my own evening ticket when the year-round party, hard-ticket strategy returns, which I don't think will take long.
> 
> If VGF opens at $207, it will send shockwaves through resale.  Maybe I'll be ready to buy a resale Poly contract or a resale BLT.  Maybe I'll be chilling at the July Halloween party at resale Poly instead.


Which are the "loser, off site properties"? (seriously curious; looking for resorts to avoid) thanks.


----------



## sethschroeder

EYL said:


> $145 for 50 years



Makes me feel good that I bought in at RIV for $155/point

I am interested to see how this threat unfolds tomorrow when price is announced.


----------



## sethschroeder

Frugal Fairy Tales said:


> Which are the loser, off site properties?



It would be current owners at VGF looking to sell their contract in the coming time period where VGF has this new price point.

VGF resale pricing has be partly held back because of the VGF2 announcement. If pricing were to drop sub $210 it would impact the top end of what a VGF seller could get for their contract. It will hold back the rate in which VGF resale pricing goes up for at least the short term.


----------



## nuhusky123

sethschroeder said:


> It would be current owners at VGF looking to sell their contract in the coming time period where VGF has this new price point.
> 
> VGF resale pricing has be partly held back because of the VGF2 announcement. If pricing were to drop sub $210 it would impact the top end of what a VGF seller could get for their contract. It will hold back the rate in which VGF resale pricing goes up for at least the short term.


The biggest losers would be anyone who bought vgf at sold out resort prices $255. These buyers are going to be in the red

anyone who bought vgf1 while an active resort are still in the black


----------



## lowlight

Paul Stupin said:


> So you’re switching from one apocalyptic vision to another now. First, the VGF2 price was going to be “sky high,” I believe higher than $275. Now you’re leaning toward $207, but apparently that’s an equally horrible option, because it’s just way too low and will upend resale and is thus a “very bad sign.” Uh, ok. First, $207 is hardly a fire sale…it’s also the current price of other equally high quality properties, Riviera and of course your favorite, Aulani. It’s the current going rate for non sold out resorts, plain and simple. And now, somehow, you regard this as a sign of the entire system breaking down.
> 
> I actually don’t think it will be the end of the world for VGF resale either. At $180 it’s still a $30 pp savings. In the immediate term, VGF direct prices will go up, and in the long term it will sell out in a couple years and resale prices will be right back where they are now.


I know you weren’t responding to me, but I agree with her and don’t feel it is apocalyptic.  It’s just a sign of their direction.  On one hand, develop new  exciting properties to grow your sales, on the other hand, cheap flips of existing resorts.  Same with the parks- fifth gate to increase business, or genie + and other increases to charge more to existing. One way shows commitment, the other a desire for an easy buck.


----------



## Airb330

I am still not happy with the new building and the flood of studios that don't work well for couples. I really wish there was a studio King and murphy bed option. Frankly I am not happy with Disney CS, ticket/AP pricing, and the crowded parks either. The magic has worn off for me lately. It's funny to think when this was originally announced I was excited and was considering buying points. A lot has changed since then.

I am not buying tomorrow and may even sell my VGF points if in a year or two the main/old DVC building is impossible to book. We bought VGF from Disney in 2013 for $145 and resale in 2018 for $145, so if we do sell, we'll make out OK. I do think the resale market has been a little crazy lately and realize if we sell in 1-3 years we may not get today's resale pricing of $190-210 a point. I am willing to take the risk and maybe my fears of studios being gone at 11 months (via walking) will be unfounded.

I hope everyone gets what they want tomorrow


----------



## CarolMN

BWV Dreamin said:


> You sure no how to kill a party! Will miss you....


If the price is right, I'll just be fashionably late, LOL.


Paul Stupin said:


> My guide has a smart plan for tomorrow. He’s going to be emailing all of his buyers who have expressed interest all the info, including pricing sheets, point charts, incentives, etc, as soon as he gets it early in the morning, so that when he calls everyone will know the specific financials.


 And of course, you will immediately post all that info here, right?   Feel free to start a new thread!


nuhusky123 said:


> The biggest losers would be anyone who bought vgf at sold out resort prices $255. These buyers are going to be in the red
> 
> anyone who bought vgf1 while an active resort are still in the black



Maybe not for long, though. 

FWIW, that $255 ppp was in effect quite a while before VGF2 was even announced.    It wouldn't be the first time incentives brought prices down after some people bought at a higher price.


----------



## Frugal Fairy Tales

Airb330 said:


> I am still not happy with the new building and the flood of studios that don't work well for couples. I really wish there was a studio King and murphy bed option. Frankly I am not happy with Disney CS, ticket/AP pricing, and the crowded parks either. The magic has worn off for me lately. It's funny to think when this was originally announced I was excited and was considering buying points. A lot has changed since then.
> 
> I am not buying tomorrow and may even sell my VGF points if in a year or two the main/old DVC building is impossible to book. We bought VGF from Disney in 2013 for $145 and resale in 2018 for $145, so if we do sell, we'll make out OK. I do think the resale market has been a little crazy lately and realize if we sell in 1-3 years we may not get today's resale pricing of $190-210 a point. I am willing to take the risk and maybe my fears of studios being gone at 11 months (via walking) will be unfounded.
> 
> I hope everyone gets what they want tomorrow


I agree.  They should have differentiated these new "resort studios" with a King Bed and pull down queen.  The pull down queens are very comfortable and provide versatility.  Studios with king beds would be a very nice option.


----------



## Ruttangel

DVCRM has a new VGF listing for 50 points at $220pp, they don't seem concerned about this being over-priced. They also have 30% of VGF listings sitting over 30 days and 70% of listings are at $195 and over.
Let's see if these reduce at all next week.


----------



## CarolMN

Ruttangel said:


> DVCRM has a new VGF listing for 50 points at $220pp, they don't seem concerned about this being over-priced. They also have 30% of VGF listings sitting over 30 days and 70% of listings are at $195 and over.
> Let's see if these reduce at all next week.


  Agree & not a surprise.  I'm sure most buyers are waiting to see the pricing for direct.   Can't think of a good reason not to wait.    I will also be interested to see what happens with resale pricing after this week.


----------



## kilik64

Ruttangel said:


> DVCRM has a new VGF listing for 50 points at $220pp, they don't seem concerned about this being over-priced. They also have 30% of VGF listings sitting over 30 days and 70% of listings are at $195 and over.
> Let's see if these reduce at all next week.


Smalls always carry a premium, easier to drop 11k vs if 207 is accurate and you're a first time buyer having to drop 30k.

Will be interesting to watch what happens with resale though for sure.


----------



## RoseGold

nuhusky123 said:


> The biggest losers would be anyone who bought vgf at sold out resort prices $255. These buyers are going to be in the red
> 
> anyone who bought vgf1 while an active resort are still in the black



Yes, VGF direct buyers are $255 wouldn't be thrilled.  But also anyone who bought a high priced sold out resort in the recent couple pricing schemes.  I mean, Poly at $250 wouldn't feel good either if VGF2 comes in at $207.  I'd even say AKL at $186.


----------



## Ruttangel

kilik64 said:


> Smalls always carry a premium, easier to drop 11k vs if 207 is accurate and you're a first time buyer having to drop 30k.
> 
> Will be interesting to watch what happens with resale though for sure.


Also a 200pt at $201, I think this will be spot on the 200pt Direct price tomorrow.


----------



## HIRyeDVC

RoseGold said:


> Yes, VGF direct buyers are $255 wouldn't be thrilled.  But also anyone who bought a high priced sold out resort in the recent couple pricing schemes.  I mean, Poly at $250 wouldn't feel good either if VGF2 comes in at $207.  I'd even say AKL at $186.


I think AKL buyers is reaching a bit.  I agree about those that might have bought Poly or VGF direct prior to VGF2 announcement.  But I'm guessing we're talking about a very few people, if at all.


----------



## tidefan

When VGF1 went on sale, it went out to members first for a week or two at $145/pt, then went on sale to the general public at $155/pt.  I wouldn't be surprised to see something similar here (not in terms of pricing, but a delta from an initial period vs. the main sales period in order to try to drive a bunch of immediate sales).


----------



## Ruttangel

RoseGold said:


> Yes, VGF direct buyers are $255 wouldn't be thrilled.  But also anyone who bought a high priced sold out resort in the recent couple pricing schemes.  I mean, Poly at $250 wouldn't feel good either if VGF2 comes in at $207.  I'd even say AKL at $186.


Not many sales at PVB but yes I get your point. It's just as well they suspended VGF sales in Aug 2021.


----------



## CaptainAmerica

RoseGold said:


> I'd even say AKL at $186.


AKV has a very friendly points chart compared to VGF.  Even if they were priced exactly the same in dollars-per-point, you're still getting a lot more nights-per-contract.



Ruttangel said:


> Not many sales at PVB but yes I get your point. It's just as well they suspended VGF sales in Aug 2021.
> View attachment 651455


These people buying contracts with points that end in "3" give me anxiety.

Could you imagine that?  Logging into your account and seeing your 173 point Copper Creek contract?

Serial killer behavior.


----------



## nuhusky123

RoseGold said:


> Yes, VGF direct buyers are $255 wouldn't be thrilled.  But also anyone who bought a high priced sold out resort in the recent couple pricing schemes.  I mean, Poly at $250 wouldn't feel good either if VGF2 comes in at $207.  I'd even say AKL at $186.


I bought in at akl with base price $186, incentives of course were offered

i don’t expect any impact whatsoever to akl prices in either direct or resale Because of gfv. Akl is really buyer friendly on price and points chart


----------



## sethschroeder

nuhusky123 said:


> I bought in at akl with base price $186, incentives of course were offered
> 
> i don’t expect any impact whatsoever to akl prices in either direct or resale Because of gfv. Akl is really buyer friendly on price and points chart



Its buyer friendly because its cheaper. Its why its pointed to so if the math changes on other resorts it could have a spill over impact to AKV resale but we will have to wait to see.




CaptainAmerica said:


> AKV has a very friendly points chart compared to VGF.



And VGF has lower MFs.

Random week in October:
AKV Std - 107 Points - $881.30
VGF Std - 158 Points - $1107.22
AKV Sv - 135 Points - $1111.93
VGF Lake - 188 Points - $1317.45

Flip side if you bought at VGF then stayed at AKV:
AKV Std - $749.82
AKV Sv - $946.04

We will see how the 7 month window changes but AKV likely will still be easy to get most times of the year in either normal view category while VGF will likely remain slightly harder to get with cheaper views possibly going before 7 months now but its a guess.


----------



## ninafeliz

I talked to our guide today and he told me that I would get an email from him with details tomorrow morning by 8-9:00, and he would follow up with a call in the afternoon.  He made some cryptic comments when I was saying that we were definitely interested but of course needed to know the price and any incentives for certain point amounts that we would be very happy, whatever that means.  He knows we are thinking about 250-300 points, and he knows we bought 250 at Riviera when incentives got it down to 179 (I think it was) for 250 points, so I hope he is legit and not full of crap and I find out its 255 a point with no incentives or something like that - because that would no make me very happy lol.  He also commented about recommending sooner rather than later when I said at least this isn't like a limited release merch item that I have to decide on as soon as it comes out - but he's a salesman so I suppose he would say that no matter what.


----------



## nuhusky123

sethschroeder said:


> Its buyer friendly because its cheaper. Its why its pointed to so if the math changes on other resorts it could have a spill over impact to AKV resale but we will have to wait to see.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And VGF has lower MFs.
> 
> Random week in October:
> AKV Std - 107 Points - $881.30
> VGF Std - 158 Points - $1107.22
> AKV Sv - 135 Points - $1111.93
> VGF Lake - 188 Points - $1317.45
> 
> Flip side if you bought at VGF then stayed at AKV:
> AKV Std - $749.82
> AKV Sv - $946.04


One has to expect gfv monthly fees to adjust next year now big pine key is attached


----------



## nuhusky123

ninafeliz said:


> I talked to our guide today and he told me that I would get an email from him with details tomorrow morning by 8-9:00, and he would follow up with a call in the afternoon.  He made some cryptic comments when I was saying that we were definitely interested but of course needed to know the price and any incentives for certain point amounts that we would be very happy, whatever that means.  He knows we are thinking about 250-300 points, and he knows we bought 250 at Riviera when incentives got it down to 179 (I think it was) for 250 points, so I hope he is legit and not full of crap and I find out its 255 a point with no incentives or something like that - because that would no make me very happy lol.  He also commented about recommending sooner rather than later when I said at least this isn't like a limited release merch item that I have to decide on as soon as it comes out - but he's a salesman so I suppose he would say that no matter what.


I’d expect very different dvc member incentives vs when this goes public probably later in March


----------



## sethschroeder

nuhusky123 said:


> One has to expect gfv monthly fees to adjust next year now big pine key is attached



Its not going to be anything significant likely. They already pay proportionate dues for the resort. Also since there was just a refurb of all rooms they won't need to play "catch-up" in trying to put away money for capital reserves for future updates.

So possibly you add an extra 1% increase but not close to closing any sort of gap in the MF delta which is drastically driven up at AKV because of the size, ground work, animals, and transportation.


----------



## ninafeliz

Paul Stupin said:


> My guide has a smart plan for tomorrow. He’s going to be emailing all of his buyers who have expressed interest all the info, including pricing sheets, point charts, incentives, etc, as soon as he gets it early in the morning, so that when he calls everyone will know the specific financials.


That's exactly what my guide said.  He said he has around 20 people on his list, he will email them all by 8-9 AM, and call in the afternoon.  Do you have Manny by chance lol?


----------



## ninafeliz

kdm31091 said:


> DVC creates a lot of FOMO and emotion but on a practical level, to be honest I don't see the huge appeal of this particular resort/expansion, considering BLT offers most of the same advantages of VGF and more flexibility in room choices, along with a far better points chart so your money goes further. If you have an attachment to VGF, I get it, but there's really not a huge selling point for this flip unless you really want studios near MK and don't like BLT (or even Poly for that matter). Keep in mind you can still enjoy VGF's dining and shopping, vibe, etc without owning there.
> 
> Because the product offers only pretty basic studios in the new building, you'd think the price should be lower to reflect that, but I really doubt it will be. Yes, you have options in the VGF1 building but now you have that many more people fighting for them. If it's priced at $255 a point I just can't see the reason to spend it when you have several others options in the MK area that cost less and offer essentially the same location.
> 
> I have no problem with VGF and we'd like to try it out and stay there someday but I don't see much reason to own there because the point chart is very high and BLT is a considerably less expensive option (in initial price and point chart) for basically the same location.



I have always loved the MK resort area, particularly the GF and Poly.  But BLT had a walking path, so that drew me there.  I just hesitated because I have never loved the CR - It was great for some trips, but not for me to own there for decades.  The only thing I loved was the view- and those rooms do have the higher points chart.  We have 6 people, so Poly is out.  Now that they added the walking path to the GF I feel like it's the perfect MK resort for us.  I do know the points charts are high, but instead of comparing it to the cheaper resorts I just looked at what we need there and will decide based on price when it's released tomorrow.  Our other home resort is Riviera, so to have one Epcot and on MK, and both my favorite resorts of the respective areas (I just wish you could walk to the parks from the RR lol), would be amazing.  




Frugal Fairy Tales said:


> I have to confess that after reading this thread I am actually surprised how tight some of you seem to be with your guide.  I have a very nice guide but I really don't have much contact with him.  If only he knew how easy it would be to persuade me to buy more points    Thank goodness he isn't reaching out and pushing me over the fence. LOL.



I hadn't talked to our guide since we made our initial purchase in Feb 2020.  Then I emailed him a week or so ago telling him we were interested in the new VGF and he called within 5 min haha.


----------



## Paul Stupin

RoseGold said:


> LOL, you're in a speculation thread right now.  I don't have any more information than anybody else.
> 
> But yes, I'm an owner.  Of VGF1 in particular.   I care about the value of my points.  Devaluing my points, like the Aulani fire sale, like the BLT fire sale, which I still don't understand, and selling VGF2 for slightly over what resale has been for the last year, is what I consider a bad sign for the value of the product I own.  And it's a bad sign about the kind of decision making DVC could do, because they have a lot of options that don't line up with the interests of owners if they really need cash.
> 
> Great news for Disney though.  Printing points with cheap flips, hooray!  Sell it out!


I’m hoping VGF resale will hold up. Assuming the opening price is $207, which of course could be wrong but I hope not, two $7 price jumps would take it up to $221, which would give it some space from a $180 ppp on resale. I think any current asking prices for resale over $195 are just sellers being unrealistic. 
Believe me, I care about my point value too!


----------



## dfan_welcomehomeall_19

One CONFIRMED item…

min cash add-on will be 25 points!!


----------



## Bjaiken77

dfan_welcomehomeall_19 said:


> One CONFIRMED item…
> 
> min cash add-on will be 25 points!!



That will get you 1 night in the janitor’s closet every two years.


----------



## dfan_welcomehomeall_19

Bjaiken77 said:


> That will get you 1 night in the janitor’s closet every two years.


True! But everyone’s needs are different  if adding onto existing VGF or looking to bank/borrow for a short stay it’s good news


----------



## Mskatietink

Are the pricing incentives usually different for presale to members vs when sales open up? This will be my first contract so I don’t want to get my hopes up if the price increases after member pre sale!


----------



## SleeplessInTO

My guide calls a lot. I’ve never bought from him (we met with him at BWV when we stayed there in a 1 bedroom on cash, watched him struggle to make the math work since it’s really hard to make the math work for a 1 bedroom pool/garden view lol), and when he offered us CCV points, we were not impressed. Went out and bought BWV resale a month later.
But he’s never given up. He calls me every time we have a stay to say “welcome home”. He’s called me twice so far to tell me he will call me tomorrow morning to talk about VGF2. I really hope the math works out tomorrow and I can finally get him a commission after 3-4 years of calling me! I wouldn’t say no to some nifty luggage either.


----------



## davidl81

Paul Stupin said:


> I’m hoping VGF resale will hold up. Assuming the opening price is $207, which of course could be wrong but I hope not, two $7 price jumps would take it up to $221, which would give it some space from a $180 ppp on resale. I think any current asking prices for resale over $195 are just sellers being unrealistic.
> Believe me, I care about my point value too!


I know we are all debating opening price (and I tend to be on the $207 side), but my gut is price increases will come quickly on VGF especially if it really impacts RIV sales.  Don’t get me wrong DVC will take the win of having a big points month or two, but they still have 3M+ points to sell at RIV and they won’t let VGF vulture those sales for extremely long.


----------



## jacec

I’m fairly set on buying 3 (150 point) contracts ,  making it easier for resale when needed.  Don’t really care about the price.  I also have 150 points in ROFR ,  but for December use year I’m fairly certain they’ll offer all the prior year points.  Let’s hope for 207 with GREAT incentives


----------



## Frugal Fairy Tales

davidl81 said:


> I know we are all debating opening price (and I tend to be on the $207 side), but my gut is price increases will come quickly on VGF especially if it really impacts RIV sales.  Don’t get me wrong DVC will take the win of having a big points month or two, but they still have 3M+ points to sell at RIV and they won’t let VGF vulture those sales for extremely long.


Any reduction in VGF resale price will be short-lived.  VGF2 won't be on sale forever.  There is plenty of time for the resale price to increase between now and 2064.  It's THE GRAND FLORIDIAN.  It's NEXT TO THE MAGIC KINGDOM!  For the long-term,  the only way for the price to go is up!  (my 2 cents... or several grand )


----------



## kdm31091

25 points is a nice minimum as opposed to the 50 they’ve done for RIV and CCV. But sadly it really will get you almost nothing at VGF


----------



## Ruttangel

kdm31091 said:


> 25 points is a nice minimum as opposed to the 50 they’ve done for RIV and CCV. But sadly it really will get you almost nothing at VGF


It would be ok if you could borrow 100% but otherwise only good for a short stay every 2 years


----------



## CaptainAmerica

davidl81 said:


> I know we are all debating opening price (and I tend to be on the $207 side), but my gut is price increases will come quickly on VGF especially if it really impacts RIV sales.  Don’t get me wrong DVC will take the win of having a big points month or two, but they still have 3M+ points to sell at RIV and they won’t let VGF vulture those sales for extremely long.


I'm actually much more interested in what, if anything, we learn about Riviera based on Disney's approach here than whatever we learn about VGF.  Throughout its sales cycle, they've been sort of positioning RIV as "Flagship 2," and we're about to learn whether they ever actually believed it or if it was just marketing BS.  They absolutely persuaded me that the Skyliner is as good as or better than the Monorail (though that was the result of a stay at Caribbean Beach, not Riviera), and I think Riviera is a _better quality _resort than the Grand, but it'll be very interesting to see how they position the two side-by-side.  We know that sales of RIV might not have been as fast or strong as they wanted, but we don't really have a good sense of whether resale restrictions, COVID, or general lackluster feelings towards the resort itself are to blame.


----------



## ReecesPieces

A picture of luggage looks like it came out.  This was posted on the DVC Fan Facebook page. I am not able to embed the image for some reason, but you can see it here:


----------



## SusieQ93

Bjaiken77 said:


> That will get you 1 night in the janitor’s closet every two years.


I just pictured that Seinfeld episode when Elaine is pretending to live in the janitors closet of an apartment building to order Chinese delivery from the place she likes


----------



## SusieQ93

Mskatietink said:


> Are the pricing incentives usually different for presale to members vs when sales open up? This will be my first contract so I don’t want to get my hopes up if the price increases after member pre sale!


Same!


----------



## nuhusky123

ReecesPieces said:


> A picture of luggage looks like it came out.  This was posted on the DVC Fan Facebook page. I am not able to embed the image for some reason, but you can see it here:


Wow that set looks cheap and lame. They could have done a roller bag with a nice gfv picture


----------



## kdm31091

That set is, at least IMO, ugly


----------



## CaptainAmerica

nuhusky123 said:


> Wow that set looks cheap and lame. They could have done a roller bag with a nice gfv picture


If it's real canvas and high quality leather, I think it looks awesome.

But it's almost certainly neither.

It reminds me of Steele Canvas.  (If you're ever in the market for a $300 laundry basket, Steele Canvas is amazing.)

https://www.steelecanvas.com/


----------



## lowlight

ReecesPieces said:


> A picture of luggage looks like it came out.  This was posted on the DVC Fan Facebook page. I am not able to embed the image for some reason, but you can see it here:



Rumor has it, looks like this.


----------



## Wedgeout

I’m sorry. That luggage sure fits the theming..antique. Should come with a free jungle cruise.


----------



## SleeplessInTO

That luggage does not scream “I paid $30k at the flagship resort and all I got was this luggage set” to me. Come on Disney.


----------



## Bjaiken77

dfan_welcomehomeall_19 said:


> True! But everyone’s needs are different  if adding onto existing VGF or looking to bank/borrow for a short stay it’s good news



Oh, I know.  I’m just messing around because VGF is so expensive on the point chart.  It actually is good information to know.  Thank you!


----------



## CaptainAmerica

I think this is the vibe they were going for.

https://www.steelecanvas.com/collections/newin2022/products/weekender-bags-holiday


----------



## jacec

I wonder if inside that luggage holds all the details to VGF2 pricing


----------



## SleeplessInTO

jacec said:


> I wonder if inside that luggage holds all the details to VGF2 pricing


My firstborn won’t fit in it, unless it’s much bigger than it looks.


----------



## jacec

We need a countdown clock to 8 AM EST ….  I want to get these purchased and book my end of December 2022 trip. The wait is killing me.


----------



## Sandisw

I just hope that I get my call and NY sends what they need


----------



## Marionnette

ReecesPieces said:


> A picture of luggage looks like it came out.  This was posted on the DVC Fan Facebook page. I am not able to embed the image for some reason, but you can see it here:


Army surplus? I don't see anything special on it that says "I'm a DVC member and spent a wheelbarrow full of money to get these bags".


----------



## Bjaiken77

ReecesPieces said:


> A picture of luggage looks like it came out.  This was posted on the DVC Fan Facebook page. I am not able to embed the image for some reason, but you can see it here:


 
This makes me feel better about the price being closer to $207.  It’s clear they didn’t blow a bunch of their budget on this luggage.  Keep the luggage - give me $207!


----------



## jacec

Bjaiken77 said:


> This makes me feel better about the price being closer to $207.  It’s clear they didn’t blow a bunch of their budget on this luggage.  Keep the luggage - give me $207!


Maybe we’ll get founders day “VGF2” luggage for the first 100 buyers


----------



## KVacc

I cant wait to read the reactions tomorrow morning when the info or lack of info comes out!


----------



## TCRAIG

CaptainAmerica said:


> AKV has a very friendly points chart compared to VGF.  Even if they were priced exactly the same in dollars-per-point, you're still getting a lot more nights-per-contract.
> 
> 
> These people buying contracts with points that end in "3" give me anxiety.
> 
> Could you imagine that?  Logging into your account and seeing your 173 point Copper Creek contract?
> 
> Serial killer behavior.


Probably - my current VGF contracts are 103 points and 51 points…my BLT are 59, 55 and 67…my WL/BRV are 87, 54 and 83, my one little BWV contract is 37 points and my ‘oddest’  BCV at 109, 17 and 15 points (yup - that’s right - 2 less than 25 point contracts - bought direct in 2012).  It’s why my husband sleeps with 1 eye open…his wife is CRAZY!!!  I should add - I’m looking for 118 VGF points tomorrow…another odd number!


----------



## lowlight

TCRAIG said:


> Probably - my current VGF contracts are 103 points and 51 points…my BLT are 59, 55 and 67…my WL/BRV are 87, 54 and 83, my one little BWV contract is 37 points and my ‘oddest’  BCV at 109, 17 and 15 points (yup - that’s right - 2 less than 25 point contracts - bought direct in 2012).  It’s why my husband sleeps with 1 eye open…his wife is CRAZY!!!  I should add - I’m looking for 118 VGF points tomorrow…another odd number!


“Honey, what do you want for your birthday?”
“Same as the past 10 years. Closing costs!”


----------



## CaptainAmerica

TCRAIG said:


> Probably - my current VGF contracts are 103 points and 51 points…my BLT are 59, 55 and 67…my WL/BRV are 87, 54 and 83, my one little BWV contract is 37 points and my ‘oddest’  BCV at 109, 17 and 15 points (yup - that’s right - 2 less than 25 point contracts - bought direct in 2012).  It’s why my husband sleeps with 1 eye open…his wife is CRAZY!!!  I should add - I’m looking for 118 VGF points tomorrow…another odd number!


----------



## SusieQ93

CaptainAmerica said:


> Damn! That adds up to a whole lot of points!


----------



## SusieQ93

TCRAIG said:


> Probably - my current VGF contracts are 103 points and 51 points…my BLT are 59, 55 and 67…my WL/BRV are 87, 54 and 83, my one little BWV contract is 37 points and my ‘oddest’  BCV at 109, 17 and 15 points (yup - that’s right - 2 less than 25 point contracts - bought direct in 2012).  It’s why my husband sleeps with 1 eye open…his wife is CRAZY!!!  I should add - I’m looking for 118 VGF points tomorrow…another odd number!


Damn! That adds up to a lot of points!


----------



## HIRyeDVC

jacec said:


> We need a countdown clock to 8 AM EST ….  I want to get these purchased and book my end of December 2022 trip. The wait is killing me.


I don't think I'll be able to sleep tonight.  And I don't even want to buy VGF2!!


----------



## dfan_welcomehomeall_19

Anyone know if you still get 6 mo 0% if putting on Disney visa?


----------



## Sandisw

dfan_welcomehomeall_19 said:


> Anyone know if you still get 6 mo 0% if putting on Disney visa?



Yes! I have my Disney Visa ready to go!


----------



## DisneyMom_3

nuhusky123 said:


> Wow that set looks cheap and lame. They could have done a roller bag with a nice gfv picture





kdm31091 said:


> That set is, at least IMO, ugly



If that’s the set, I’m fine with a call later in the day. I won’t miss that luggage!


----------



## HIRyeDVC

CaptainAmerica said:


> I'm actually much more interested in what, if anything, we learn about Riviera based on Disney's approach here than whatever we learn about VGF.  Throughout its sales cycle, they've been sort of positioning RIV as "Flagship 2," and we're about to learn whether they ever actually believed it or if it was just marketing BS.  They absolutely persuaded me that the Skyliner is as good as or better than the Monorail (though that was the result of a stay at Caribbean Beach, not Riviera), and I think Riviera is a _better quality _resort than the Grand, but it'll be very interesting to see how they position the two side-by-side.  We know that sales of RIV might not have been as fast or strong as they wanted, but we don't really have a good sense of whether resale restrictions, COVID, or general lackluster feelings towards the resort itself are to blame.


A lot to chew on here.  I agree that RIV has been positioned as a "Flagship 2", but I think they're apples and oranges.  One is close to MK, the other is close to Epcot/HS.  The sales of ALL resorts and not just RIV were impacted during the pandemic, though it seems RIV was especially impacted more because of the resale restrictions and that it's really the only "featured" or "actively selling" resort (I don't count Aulani) since 2020.  I agree that VGF2 will be a real litmus test for Riviera's resale experiment.  This is why I believe VGF2 contracts will have have resale restrictions, even though they fall under the same condo association.  If Disney is fully onboard with this resale restriction for the future of DVC, VGF2 not having restrictions would be a huge step backward for Disney.  I can't wait for tomorrow morning to finally find out the details!


----------



## DisneyMom_3

jacec said:


> We need a countdown clock to 8 AM EST ….  I want to get these purchased and book my end of December 2022 trip. The wait is killing me.


Me too! I need more points so I can book my last two nights.


----------



## chicagodisneyguy

Sandisw said:


> Yes! I have my Disney Visa ready to go!


For anyone about to buy VGF2 I'd head over to the budget board and check out the "we love credit cards" thread.  While 0% is nice for 6 months, you can get WAAAYYY more value by opening  few credit cards and using those to purchase your points.  For instance several cards right now have 100k+ bonus offers.  When I bought BLT direct in 2009 I ended up with a companion pass along with 70k UA points.  Instead of giving DVC a check I used a couple credit cards and then paid it off that month.  For people going big points-wise,  the Capital1 Spark business card has a spend $50,000 in 3 months and get $3k statement credit.    

This advice comes with the standard disclaimer not to open credit cards if you can't afford to. But if you are buying VGF2 I am assuming you can.


----------



## Nabas

VGF 150-to-160 point resale contracts on eight DVC resale websites are listed at an average of $194.60 per point.

I'll let you know what they look like in a couple of days.


----------



## princesscinderella

DisneyMom_3 said:


> If that’s the set, I’m fine with a call later in the day. I won’t miss that luggage!


However maybe you can turn around and sell it for 30k on eBay


----------



## CaptainAmerica

HIRyeDVC said:


> This is why I believe VGF2 contracts will have have resale restrictions, even though they fall under the same condo association.


I thought we already knew that wasn't the case.


----------



## Chovy

Here's a question I haven't seen asked or answered. We have a use year of Dec.  On prior purchases we received the current use year pts.- meaning right now we would receive 2021's, but for Riviera (because it wasn't actually available yet) we didn't.    Anyone hear from their guide if this would be the case with VGF2?


----------



## HIRyeDVC

CaptainAmerica said:


> I thought we already knew that wasn't the case.


Disney has never officially said anything about resale restrictions.  Everyone is assuming it will not have the restrictions based on it being under the same condo association.


----------



## ninafeliz

Chovy said:


> Here's a question I haven't seen asked or answered. We have a use year of Dec.  On prior purchases we received the current use year pts.- meaning right now we would receive 2020's, but for Riviera (because it wasn't actually available yet) we didn't.    Anyone hear from their guide if this would be the case with VGF2?


We also have a Dec UY, and honestly I find it confusing!  You almost always, unless you travel in December, are using the previous calendar years points, right?  But still
I assumed we would just get the Dec 2021 points, why would we also get Dec 2020 if we bought VGF tomorrow (or soon)?  It’s well into 2021 points now.  Don’t get me wrong, I would love the points, but I can’t see how they would give that many to start.


----------



## SleeplessInTO

Chovy said:


> Here's a question I haven't seen asked or answered. We have a use year of Dec.  On prior purchases we received the current use year pts.- meaning right now we would receive 2020's, but for Riviera (because it wasn't actually available yet) we didn't.    Anyone hear from their guide if this would be the case with VGF2?


I’m fairly confident you won’t get 2020 points. I have not heard anything about 2021 points.


----------



## Chovy

SleeplessInTO said:


> I’m fairly confident you won’t get 2020 points. I have not heard anything about 2021 points.


LOl I wrote 2020 instead of 2021.  Maybe I forgot it was the new year 3 months later???


----------



## SleeplessInTO

Chovy said:


> LOl I wrote 2020 instead of 2021.  Maybe I forgot it was the new year 3 months later???


I'm still writing 2021 on half of my work files, despite it being 2022. Oops! (I also wrote 2011 on something recently... )


----------



## Sandisw

Chovy said:


> Here's a question I haven't seen asked or answered. We have a use year of Dec.  On prior purchases we received the current use year pts.- meaning right now we would receive 2021's, but for Riviera (because it wasn't actually available yet) we didn't.    Anyone hear from their guide if this would be the case with VGF2?



Right now, we are in the Dec 2021 UY and from my conversations with my guide, I should be getting these without an issue and even be able to use them for my end of July trip (so my SSR and RIV borrowed points can go back).

The new studios will be opening this summer but he didn't mention any UY's not getting current UY points.  There are two things that can happen though.  Points deeded to the new rooms can not be used until the rooms open and these points could be withheld from some UY's since the rooms were not open prior to the 2022 UY starting for them.

However, they do have points that are deeded to current VGF building and therefore could, for those owners being left out of the 2021 UY points, could be given these and then it doesn't matter as all those rooms exist in the system already.

Once the rooms actually open, then they can sell al the UY's with points from the new units.


----------



## nuhusky123

I’ve been thinking about the luggage gift and it’s a little big farcical. Does dvc think that junk is going to be what convinces someone to buy 125 points instead of something less?

for me $ is king and the idea of well I could spend an extra $5k and get some junky luggage so sure that sounds like a great deal. Please dvc here is $5k extra now give me some bags you spent $0.30 making


----------



## jacec

My guide just emailed me.  You’re on my “first of the list to call tomorrow. I expect we will make each other’s day” 

god I love Disney


----------



## CaptainAmerica

HIRyeDVC said:


> Disney has never officially said anything about resale restrictions.  Everyone is assuming it will not have the restrictions based on it being under the same condo association.


If they wanted to impose resale restrictions, why wouldn't they have turned them on at Aulani or with any of the sold out resorts they've been ROFRing and reselling?


----------



## Sandisw

nuhusky123 said:


> I’ve been thinking about the luggage gift and it’s a little big farcical. Does dvc think that junk is going to be what convinces someone to buy 125 points instead of something less?
> 
> for me $ is king and the idea of well I could spend an extra $5k and get some junky luggage so sure that sounds like a great deal. Please dvc here is $5k extra now give me some bags you spent $0.30 making



See, I look at it differently. I like the fact that they may be adding some special things for early buyers.

I am excited and hope I end up being one who qualifies.  I want close to my pixie dust price…and if I get that, I am thrilled.. the rest is just the cherry on the top.


----------



## jacec

Sandisw said:


> See, I look at it differently. I like the fact that they may be adding some special things for early buyers.
> 
> I am excited and hope I end up being one who qualifies.  I want close to my pixie dust price…and if I get that, I am thrilled.. the rest is just the cherry on the top.



What would make me more excited is DVC convincing DW to bring back the Sorcerer pass. I need annual passes to go with all these damn trips we’re taking.


----------



## MurphyL

Anyone know if you can use Disney Gift Cards to pay for a portion of the DVC purchase?


----------



## Sandisw

CaptainAmerica said:


> If they wanted to impose resale restrictions, why wouldn't they have turned them on at Aulani or with any of the sold out resorts they've been ROFRing and reselling?



I don’t think they will, and the fact they left the add on at 25 points leads me to believe they would not attempt to rock the boat.

But, if they wanted to try, this would be the place to start because it’s a new addition to the resort.  

IMO, I think the plan is to have the two resorts priced close so they can gather data about RIV sales and whether they need to change tactics.

While it did sell well prior to the pandemic, and it is starting to rebound a bit, they may have decided they need to try something else to boost sale vs. waiting it out.

What would be sweet Is if  they decide to lift the restrictions because this goes well.  While they don’t bother me at all, it would be a great change!


----------



## nuhusky123

jacec said:


> What would make me more excited is DVC convincing DW to bring back the Sorcerer pass. I need annual passes to go with all these damn trips we’re taking.


100% right there with you. If I buy gfv I now have enough points for two weeks and dang it I need an ap

to the luggage yes this is way better than some crummy backpack but come on they could have done so much better


----------



## stwaldman

nuhusky123 said:


> I’ve been thinking about the luggage gift and it’s a little big farcical. Does dvc think that junk is going to be what convinces someone to buy 125 points instead of something less?
> 
> for me $ is king and the idea of well I could spend an extra $5k and get some junky luggage so sure that sounds like a great deal. Please dvc here is $5k extra now give me some bags you spent $0.30 making


That's the point of the promotion though, cash is king to them too, but a few bucks of promotional goodies makes everybody whole and might make a buyer or two feeling special (and the rest will sell it on eBay).


----------



## Sandisw

jacec said:


> What would make me more excited is DVC convincing DW to bring back the Sorcerer pass. I need annual passes to go with all these damn trips we’re taking.



That would be great news too! Just don’t get the criticism


----------



## DVCsloth

sethschroeder said:


> Makes me feel good that I bought in at RIV for $155/point
> 
> I am interested to see how this threat unfolds tomorrow when price is announced.


Awesome price!


----------



## jacec

nuhusky123 said:


> 100% right there with you. If I buy gfv I now have enough points for two weeks and dang it I need an ap
> 
> to the luggage yes this is way better than some crummy backpack but come on they could have done so much better


On our trip in Feb DD & DD bought APs to Universal and hired a nanny for the kids to just enjoy the pool.


----------



## nuhusky123

jacec said:


> On our trip in Feb DD & DD bought APs to Universal and hired a nanny for the kids to just enjoy the pool.


Oh I’ve got the universal ap too, if only Disney can get their act together.

im not much of a universal fan to be honest, although the new park looks really interesting when complete


----------



## CaptainAmerica

Sandisw said:


> But, if they wanted to try, this would be the place to start because it’s a new addition to the resort.


It doesn't make sense. Put yourself 10 years from now, when the resort is sold out (again) but they're still selling the points they've acquired through ROFR. There's zero chance they're going to have their guides selling two different classes of VGF points based on whatever unit the deed is tied to.


----------



## sethschroeder

HIRyeDVC said:


> though it seems RIV was especially impacted



I wouldn't say that it's been running like 65% of points sold and past resorts typically were at 70-75%.

So some impact but the larger impact is Covid. I think it will take until June/July before the balance normalizes of VGF vs RIV purchases since there is a backlog of buyers. 



chicagodisneyguy said:


> While 0% is nice for 6 months, you can get WAAAYYY more value by opening few credit cards and using those to purchase your points.



People talk about CC churn all the time. 

I will just say you can spread out the purchase over 3 months, then add on 6 months of 0%, and you get 2% back on the Disney Visa Premium card which can be used on DVC fees or tickets or food.

As far as 100k points you would have to equate that to actual dollars to figure out what the value is and if its worth the hoops and if you even will be approved for that large of a credit line.


----------



## Sandisw

CaptainAmerica said:


> It doesn't make sense. Put yourself 10 years from now, when the resort is sold out (again) but they're still selling the points they've acquired through ROFR. There's zero chance they're going to have their guides selling two different classes of VGF points based on whatever unit the deed is tied to.



Sorry, I meant they would try the entire resort, not just the new building. Remember, they can change terms of the POS without owner approval unless it’s a material change.

Most would argue, and I agree that would have to count as one, but that would be the only way DVD could attempt it.

That is why I said I don’t think they would because it would cause a huge issue.


----------



## lowlight

I’m calling it now- it will be a new condo association, resale restrictions, 270 per point, and the special gift for the first 500 buyers is a semi nude painting of Chapek in his tighty whities on a black sofa.


----------



## nuhusky123

lowlight said:


> I’m calling it now- it will be a new condo association, resale restrictions, 270 per point, and the special gift for the first 500 buyers is a semi nude painting of Chapek in his tighty whities on a black sofa.


Deal, I’ll only buy though if chapek signs the painting


----------



## sethschroeder

Sandisw said:


> Sorry, I meant they would try the entire resort, not just the new building. Remember, they can change terms of the POS without owner approval unless it’s a material change.
> 
> Most would argue, and I agree that would have to count as one, but that would be the only way DVD could attempt it.
> 
> That is why I said I don’t think they would because it would cause a huge issue.



Ya they could make it that if you bought when it was O14 then you can sell it as O14 but if you buy once VGF 2.0 goes on sale it's restricted. When they buy points back it goes restricted doesn't matter which unit it came from.

Not saying they will but they wouldnt look to have two sets of rules.

It would be harder to argue it has a impact on contract value as well if someone did want to sue over. 

We will see tomorrow if Disney pulls a fast one.


----------



## tidefan

Sandisw said:


> Sorry, I meant they would try the entire resort, not just the new building. Remember, they can change terms of the POS without owner approval unless it’s a material change.
> 
> Most would argue, and I agree that would have to count as one, but that would be the only way DVD could attempt it.
> 
> That is why I said I don’t think they would because it would cause a huge issue.


But wouldn't changing resale restrictions 6 years down the road after purchase represent a large material change to those that own?  I sure would consider it a material change...


----------



## Sandisw

chicagodisneyguy said:


> For anyone about to buy VGF2 I'd head over to the budget board and check out the "we love credit cards" thread.  While 0% is nice for 6 months, you can get WAAAYYY more value by opening  few credit cards and using those to purchase your points.  For instance several cards right now have 100k+ bonus offers.  When I bought BLT direct in 2009 I ended up with a companion pass along with 70k UA points.  Instead of giving DVC a check I used a couple credit cards and then paid it off that month.  For people going big points-wise,  the Capital1 Spark business card has a spend $50,000 in 3 months and get $3k statement credit.
> 
> This advice comes with the standard disclaimer not to open credit cards if you can't afford to. But if you are buying VGF2 I am assuming you can.



Thanks for sharing.  I really don’t want another card but I also have a reason to have the 7 to 8 months free before I pay it all.

So, for me, that’s the best deal! I’ll still get my 1% back…don’t carry the premier card.


----------



## sethschroeder

tidefan said:


> But wouldn't changing resale restrictions 6 years down the road after purchase represent a large material change to those that own?  I sure would consider it a material change...



If you can still resell your points as O14 it doesn't change much from today for you personally. 

It's not far off from RIV being restricted in the system from your points which almost a larger deal when you sell your contract.


----------



## Sandisw

tidefan said:


> But wouldn't changing resale restrictions 6 years down the road after purchase represent a large material change to those that own?  I sure would consider it a material change...



I would too but just sharing the only way I see they could attempt it because not everyone even knows that language exists.

They’d have to say it’s not material because the documents are filled with don’t buy for resale value, etc. etc. and force people to fight them.

But, honestly, I don’t think they are that crazy to try.

ETA.  If I am not mistaken, the new POS and membership agreements were filed and I think it would have been there.


----------



## Sandisw

We are down to 12 or 13 hours my friends!


----------



## tidefan

Sandisw said:


> I would too but just sharing the only way I see they could attempt it because not everyone even knows that language exists.
> 
> They’d have to say it’s not material because the documents are filled with don’t buy for resale value, etc. etc. and force people to fight them.
> 
> But, honestly, I don’t think they are that crazy to try.
> 
> ETA.  If I am not mistaken, the new POS and membership agreements were filed and I think it would have been there.



I think they'd be opening a pandora's box if they did that.



sethschroeder said:


> If you can still resell your points as O14 it doesn't change much from today for you personally.
> 
> It's not far off from RIV being restricted in the system from your points which almost a larger deal when you sell your contract.



But would it affect their resale value?


----------



## Sandisw

tidefan said:


> I think they'd be opening a pandora's box if they did that.
> 
> 
> 
> But would it affect their resale value?



I am going to add that when you look up the definition of material change, adding resale restrictions would certainly seem to fit.


----------



## Wedgeout

Tomorrow the whole new 100+ page Shocker thread and finding out who bought first as the Ribbon Cutter!


----------



## Skicks35

chicagodisneyguy said:


> For anyone about to buy VGF2 I'd head over to the budget board and check out the "we love credit cards" thread.  While 0% is nice for 6 months, you can get WAAAYYY more value by opening  few credit cards and using those to purchase your points.  For instance several cards right now have 100k+ bonus offers.  When I bought BLT direct in 2009 I ended up with a companion pass along with 70k UA points.  Instead of giving DVC a check I used a couple credit cards and then paid it off that month.  For people going big points-wise,  the Capital1 Spark business card has a spend $50,000 in 3 months and get $3k statement credit.
> 
> This advice comes with the standard disclaimer not to open credit cards if you can't afford to. But if you are buying VGF2 I am assuming you can.


FYI - for anyone that regularly flies on Southwest: I believe each one of the Chase rapid rewards Visas (at least the ones with annual fees) are currently offering a 30k rapid rewards sign up bonus PLUS a complimentary companion pass good through 2/28/23 with $5k in purchases in the first 3 months.  I signed up for mine on Feb 13, put a large medical procedure purchase on it on Feb 23, and the companion pass was linked to my account today!  The $5k limit would certainly hit with any addition to VGF2.


----------



## jacec

Wedgeout said:


> Tomorrow the whole new 100+ page Shocker thread and finding out who bought first as the Ribbon Cutter!



I’ll be our ribbon cutter ,  will post right after I finalize the purchase.


----------



## SusieQ93

Sandisw said:


> Thanks for sharing.  I really don’t want another card but I also have a reason to have the 7 to 8 months free before I pay it all.
> 
> So, for me, that’s the best deal! I’ll still get my 1% back…don’t carry the premier card.


You can spread your DVC purchase over 3 months without financing? I plan to use Disney visa too.


----------



## dfan_welcomehomeall_19

MurphyL said:


> Anyone know if you can use Disney Gift Cards to pay for a portion of the DVC purchase?


You can’t use gift cards or Disney reward dollars from Disney Visa card


----------



## Sandisw

SusieQ93 said:


> You can spread your DVC purchase over 3 months without financing? I plan to use Disney visa too.



Yes, they have allowed people to spread out the payment to the card over 90 days.  I have heard some guides give buyers a hard time and some will only do 30...I want the 60 days and mentioned that to my guide yesterday, and he didn't say he couldn't do it, but let's see what happens.

My plan is to put down the 10% down payment, and then ask for $8K in 30 days, and the balance in another 30 days after that!  This all assumes I end up with the 125 I really want if the pixie dust price comes through for me...well, it comes in under $210!  Feeling really good it will be close!!!

IF that happens, I am not paying the bulk of it off until October/November which is exactly when I want it to come due!!!


----------



## SusieQ93

Sandisw said:


> Yes, they have allowed people to spread out the payment to the card over 90 days.  I have heard some guides give buyers a hard time and some will only do 30...I want the 60 days and mentioned that to my guide yesterday, and he didn't say he couldn't do it, but let's see what happens.
> 
> My plan is to put down the 10% down payment, and then ask for $8K in 30 days, and the balance in another 30 days after that!  This all assumes I end up with the 125 I really want if the pixie dust price comes through for me...well, it comes in under $210!  Feeling really good it will be close!!!
> 
> IF that happens, I am not paying the bulk of it off until October/November which is exactly when I want it to come due!!!


Thanks for explaining! Yes, if it’s interest free why not take advantage (unless you didn’t want it on your credit report for a home or car purchase or something), but otherwise why not take the time?


----------



## HIRyeDVC

CaptainAmerica said:


> If they wanted to impose resale restrictions, why wouldn't they have turned them on at Aulani or with any of the sold out resorts they've been ROFRing and reselling?


I’m not saying it’s probable, but it’s possible and not difficult for Disney to do. VGF2 is a separate building. VGF1 contracts would fall under O14 without restrictions except for Riviera. VGF2 contracts that start selling tomorrow will be restricted for the next resale buyer. It will probably cause some headaches. But it would also help to maintain VGF1 resale contract value while VGF2 contracts will have similar value to Riviera. Again, I’m only speculating the possibility. So much will be revealed in 12 hours!!!


----------



## sethschroeder

tidefan said:


> But would it affect their resale value?



I think it would long term if people saw more people stuck there taking up rooms but I think initially it was have little impact to such a point it would be hard to argue any impact except in theory 15-20 years from now. 

Thing with DVC is they already have done things that impact resale value at VGF:
Removal of blue card when you resell
Increase room total of only studios
Removal of access to future resorts

I would suspect those changes likely impact value for historical owners more than moving forward direct buyers have restricted points.


----------



## BruinEd03

dfan_welcomehomeall_19 said:


> You can’t use gift cards or Disney reward dollars from Disney Visa card



Not for the purchase price, but you can pay for the annual dues (that are immediately due) online using Disney GC.  This was true at least as of 2020.


----------



## Sandisw

BruinEd03 said:


> Not for the purchase price, but you can pay for the annual dues (that are immediately due) online using Disney GC.  This was true at least as of 2020.



You can pay dues with GC and reward dollars!  I just did that this week!


----------



## rubybutt

Sandisw said:


> Yes, they have allowed people to spread out the payment to the card over 90 days.  I have heard some guides give buyers a hard time and some will only do 30...I want the 60 days and mentioned that to my guide yesterday, and he didn't say he couldn't do it, but let's see what happens.
> 
> My plan is to put down the 10% down payment, and then ask for $8K in 30 days, and the balance in another 30 days after that!  This all assumes I end up with the 125 I really want if the pixie dust price comes through for me...well, it comes in under $210!  Feeling really good it will be close!!!
> 
> IF that happens, I am not paying the bulk of it off until October/November which is exactly when I want it to come due!!!


How many are you going to buy if it is 180?


----------



## Sandisw

rubybutt said:


> How many are you going to buy if it is 180?



Do not tempt me!!  But, if it is that???I would up to 150 for sure!!!


----------



## BeachClub2014

Holy smokes! I step away for a few hours and come back to the thread and have six new pages of reading to catch up on. Don't you people have jobs, or family, or eat? LOL


----------



## dfan_welcomehomeall_19

Sandisw said:


> You can pay dues with GC and reward dollars!  I just did that this week!


Sorry should have clarified! Yes I’ve done the same  I buy gift cards at 4%-6% discount at a warehouse club for dues. I was referring only towards purchase


----------



## ninafeliz

Sandisw said:


> Yes, they have allowed people to spread out the payment to the card over 90 days.  I have heard some guides give buyers a hard time and some will only do 30...I want the 60 days and mentioned that to my guide yesterday, and he didn't say he couldn't do it, but let's see what happens.
> 
> My plan is to put down the 10% down payment, and then ask for $8K in 30 days, and the balance in another 30 days after that!  This all assumes I end up with the 125 I really want if the pixie dust price comes through for me...well, it comes in under $210!  Feeling really good it will be close!!!
> 
> IF that happens, I am not paying the bulk of it off until October/November which is exactly when I want it to come due!!!


I’m don’t remember all of the details, it was 2 years ago, but I’m pretty sure our guide said he had to put the total amount onto our Disney visa within 30 days.  So he put 1/4 of what remained after our initial payment at the time we bought on every 7 days.  We then paid off what we wanted to in that time period between the 7 day increments, and then let the amount that we wanted to carry with the 0% interest ride until we paid it off at 5 months.  I will also add that letting a large amount carry over on my cc at 0% interest made our credit score take a decent hit.  I can’t remember what we let sit for 5 months- I’m thinking in the range of $20,000?  Luckily our credit scores were good enough that they stayed good, but it was a noticeable drop that did recover after we paid it.


----------



## Sandisw

ninafeliz said:


> I’m don’t remember all of the details, it was 2 years ago, but I’m pretty sure our guide said he had to put the total amount onto our Disney visa within 30 days.  So he put 1/4 of what remained after our initial payment at the time we bought on every 7 days.  We then paid off what we wanted to in that time period between the 7 day increments, and then let the amount that we wanted to carry with the 0% interest ride until we paid it off at 5 months.  I will also add that letting a large amount carry over on my cc at 0% interest made our credit score take a decent hit.  I can’t remember what we let sit for 5 months- I’m thinking in the range of $20,000?  Luckily our credit scores were good enough that they stayed good, but it was a noticeable drop that did recover after we paid it.



I have two Disney Visas so I will most likely put part on one, and part on the other to keep each of them lower but still take advantage of whatever free time I get!


----------



## SusieQ93

ninafeliz said:


> I’m don’t remember all of the details, it was 2 years ago, but I’m pretty sure our guide said he had to put the total amount onto our Disney visa within 30 days.  So he put 1/4 of what remained after our initial payment at the time we bought on every 7 days.  We then paid off what we wanted to in that time period between the 7 day increments, and then let the amount that we wanted to carry with the 0% interest ride until we paid it off at 5 months.  I will also add that letting a large amount carry over on my cc at 0% interest made our credit score take a decent hit.  I can’t remember what we let sit for 5 months- I’m thinking in the range of $20,000?  Luckily our credit scores were good enough that they stayed good, but it was a noticeable drop that did recover after we paid it.


Yeah, if you want to finance anything in the near future it’s a bad idea. But your score should recover as soon as your zero balance is reported to the credit agencies at the end of your billing cycle. Obviously not a good idea either if you are maxing out your only card or something. Credit is a tricky business. All about monitoring ratios, keeping balances low, etc. but yeah, if you’re carrying a 20k balance for several months you’re going to have a temporary hit no matter what.


----------



## jbreen2010

MurphyL said:


> Anyone know if you can use Disney Gift Cards to pay for a portion of the DVC purchase?



you cannot use gift cards


----------



## jbreen2010

My guide told me you can pay with credit card for the full amount. While the target red card 5% discount would be nice, I think my Costco Vito card marks Disney as “travel” related and 3% cash back.  
Guide also told me she can break up payments over 30-days…so put some on cc this week, pay it off, some next week, etc.


----------



## sethschroeder

jbreen2010 said:


> Costco Vito card marks Disney as “travel” related and 3% cash back.



I don't think that is accurate. Lots of codes have been updated and think it gets marked as a timeshare purchase. 

You can have DVC put through a down-payment that is smaller to test it so you could always pick a different card then.


----------



## MurphyL

I got confirmation that guaranteed weeks will be sold. That’s what I was hoping to be able to buy. Now hopefully the price will be in my budget so I actually can buy.


----------



## jacec

MurphyL said:


> I got confirmation that guaranteed weeks will be sold. That’s what I was hoping to be able to buy. Now hopefully the price will be in my budget so I actually can buy.



Not worth the premium for me.


----------



## tidefan

MurphyL said:


> I got confirmation that guaranteed weeks will be sold. That’s what I was hoping to be able to buy. Now hopefully the price will be in my budget so I actually can buy.


In BPK or the original building?


----------



## HIRyeDVC

sethschroeder said:


> I don't think that is accurate. Lots of codes have been updated and think it gets marked as a timeshare purchase.
> 
> You can have DVC put through a down-payment that is smaller to test it so you could always pick a different card then.


This would be interesting to know. I know that annual dues codes as travel but not sure about purchasing a contract


----------



## Skicks35

HIRyeDVC said:


> This would be interesting to know. I know that annual dues codes as travel but not sure about purchasing a contract


I have an Amex green card (3x points on travel) and am 100% certain that the annual dues are not coded as travel in Amex’s eyes.  I’m sure the actual purchase is coded similar.  Other card companies could code it differently though.


----------



## Wedgeout

HIRyeDVC said:


> This would be interesting to know. I know that annual dues codes as travel but not sure about purchasing a contract


Last year January 2021 my direct purchase was entered as “dvc escrow pymts” - travel (Chase).


----------



## MurphyL

tidefan said:


> In BPK or the original building?


Only the new building not the previously sold out resort.


----------



## Redheadprincess

lowlight said:


> I’m calling it now- it will be a new condo association, resale restrictions, 270 per point, and the special gift for the first 500 buyers is a semi nude painting of Chapek in his tighty whities on a black sofa.


I really don't think there will be resale restrictions other than what there already is with VGF. It is all the same resort  otherwise, people buying new points would be restricted to 11 month priority at Big Pine Key only. 2023 point charts have already come out and there is not a separate resort of VGF2/Big Pine Key. These points and condo associations are the same. The resale restrictions will still be limited to the 14 original resorts.


----------



## rubybutt

add on tooll showing $207.  Now lets wait for incentive numbers.


----------



## sethschroeder

jacec said:


> Not worth the premium for me.



Depends when. 

You don't have to use it and plenty of people around here actually have GW that actually save them points over booking normal now. 

Early December I still think will keep going up in points.


----------



## Skicks35

This is interesting.. Glitch or real??


----------



## DisneyMom_3

rubybutt said:


> add on tooll showing $207.  Now lets wait for incentive numbers.


VGF - Save up to $1500 
AUL - Save up to $2550
RIV - Save up to $2100
I’m excited for the $207 price, but surprised incentives aren’t higher for the newest resort. 
I stand corrected - $179 for 300 is not too shabby!


----------



## Jwaire

https://dvcexplorer.com/fin/m/GrandFloridian_Member_DeveloperCredit.pdf
it’s up.


----------



## rubybutt

VACATION POINTS
x*$207* Per Vacation Point
+*$250.00* Document Preparation Fee
+*$810.28* Estimated Closing Costs
-$8,400 Savings (Offer Ends Mar 30, 2022)3
Total Purchase Price
__ $54,760.28


----------



## rubybutt

$179pp at 300!


----------



## DVChris

https://dvcexplorer.com/fin/m/GrandFloridian_Member_DeveloperCredit.pdf


----------



## Jwaire

Priced perfectly. Gets DVD quick cash, offloads hotel inventory for Resorts, adds additional studio inventory for members and doesn’t harm the current sales focus, Riviera.


----------



## sethschroeder

$199 at 125
$197 at 150
$194 at 175
$186 at 200
$185 at 250
$179 at 300
$176 at 500
$174 at 1000

RIV - $171 at 300
AUL - $163 at 300


----------



## rubybutt

RIV has great incentives too.  Cheapest it has been in a while.


----------



## sethschroeder

VGF resale has to take a hit unless there is some funny business with these contracts. 

People could right now buy 300 points split and just sell off the 150 point contract for a profit at today's prices. No way that holds.


----------



## SusieQ93

sethschroeder said:


> VGF resale has to take a hit unless there is some funny business with these contracts.
> 
> People could right now buy 300 points split and just sell off the 150 point contract for a profit at today's prices. No way that holds.


It definitely has to go down for the time being. Who would buy resale priced virtually the same as direct? That would be insane. It will go back up again once it’s sold out again.


----------



## JoeDisney247365

rubybutt said:


> RIV has great incentives too.  Cheapest it has been in a while.


I just purchased 150 points a week ago and am actually considering adding on 200 more for a $25 dollar discount...somebody take my internet away lol


----------



## rubybutt

JoeDisney247365 said:


> I just purchased 150 points a week ago and am actually considering adding on 200 more for a $25 dollar discount...somebody take my internet away lol


you have 10 days to back out and get the better price!


----------



## tidefan

rubybutt said:


> you have 10 days to back out and get the better price!


Where are you seeing these?  I still don't see any of the incentives on the DVC Member site.


----------



## JoeDisney247365

First 500 add-on contracts at VGF get a duffel bag set that retails for $350. 125 point minimum.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

tidefan said:


> Where are you seeing these?  I still don't see any of the incentives on the DVC Member site.


There’s links on the last page


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

.


----------



## JoeDisney247365

rubybutt said:


> you have 10 days to back out and get the better price!


So far those prices are add-on incentives.  My contract was new.  I think add-on incentives are usually better?


----------



## rubybutt

rubybutt said:


> $207 with incentives at 300 points of $25.  300 points at $282 pp


missed it by $3.  Do I get a prize?  Yes I do, 300 VGF points!!!!!  Already emailed in my order!


----------



## DisneyMom_3

DVChris said:


> https://dvcexplorer.com/fin/m/GrandFloridian_Member_DeveloperCredit.pdf


What does “with Developer Credit” mean?
Does that mean I have to give up 2021 points in order to get incentives?


----------



## rubybutt

JoeDisney247365 said:


> So far those prices are add-on incentives.  My contract was new.  I think add-on incentives are usually better?


yeah.... Never hurts to call and ask though.


----------



## tidefan

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> There’s links on the last page


Those only go to the Grand Floridian incentives for me.  Where are people seeing the other properties?


----------



## rubybutt

DisneyMom_3 said:


> What does “with Developer Credit” mean?
> Does that mean I have to give up 2021 points in order to get incentives?


thats just what they call the incentives.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

DisneyMom_3 said:


> What does “with Developer Credit” mean?
> Does that mean I have to give up 2021 points in order to get incentives?


Developer credit is what DVC sometimes calls incentives. You don’t need to “give up” 2021 points to get them.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

tidefan said:


> Those only go to the Grand Floridian incentives for me.  Where are people seeing the other properties?


Just change the resort name in the URL https://dvcexplorer.com/fin/m/Riviera_Member_DeveloperCredit.pdf


----------



## tidefan

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> Just change the resort name in the URL https://dvcexplorer.com/fin/m/Riviera_Member_DeveloperCredit.pdf


Thanks!

Was interested to see what BLT would be.  Looks like its back to $245/pt and not much on the incentives


----------



## DonMacGregor

But it's going to be at least $275 per point!


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

JoeDisney247365 said:


> So far those prices are add-on incentives.  My contract was new.  I think add-on incentives are usually better?


VGF is unavailable for new owners until 3/31.


----------



## DisneyMom_3

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> Developer credit is what DVC sometimes calls incentives. You don’t need to “give up” 2021 points to get them.


Thanks! That is what I thought, but then I started second guessing myself when I read "Eligible purchasers may exchange their full allotment of Vacation Points from the first Use Year for a cash rebate to be determined by Developer"

With incentives at 300, I'm trying to justify buying more but wanted to make sure I was figuring everything correctly.


----------



## rubybutt

Epcot Forever Forever said:


> VGF is unavailable for new owners until 3/31.


He was talking about RIV.


----------



## rubybutt

DisneyMom_3 said:


> Thanks! That is what I thought, but then I started second guessing myself when I read "Eligible purchasers may exchange their full allotment of Vacation Points from the first Use Year for a cash rebate to be determined by Developer"
> 
> With incentives at 300, I'm trying to justify buying more but wanted to make sure I was figuring everything correctly.


Yeah, don't do that exchange.  You can rent them for 50% more than that.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

DisneyMom_3 said:


> Thanks! That is what I thought, but then I started second guessing myself when I read "Eligible purchasers may exchange their full allotment of Vacation Points from the first Use Year for a cash rebate to be determined by Developer"
> 
> With incentives at 300, I'm trying to justify buying more but wanted to make sure I was figuring everything correctly.


That is in addition to. Listen to @rubybutt though and just say no to that.


----------



## OnThisMagicNight

Speculation on incentives for those of us who aren’t members yet…




UrsulaWantsYourSoul said:


> View attachment 649086
> 
> https://dvcnews.com/index.php/resor...-pricing-revealed-for-disney-s-riviera-resort



Are the above opening incentives for RIV generally how they handle the difference between members and new buyers? It looks as if the higher you go, the less the difference is. I’m specifically thinking of 300 points and wondering if $26-$24 pp is where the incentive for new buyers will land.

Or maybe new buyer incentives will match the lower incentives that start on 3/31?

*Grand Floridian Add-On Discounts Effective March 31*
 125-149 points: $5 off per point
150-174 points: $6 off
175-199 points: $9 off
200-249 points: $17 off
250-299 points: $18 off
300-499 points: $24 off
500-999 points: $26 off
1000+ points: $28 off

https://dvcnews.com/dvc-program/financial/news-34867/5242-grand-floridian-pricing-debuts


----------



## Sandisw

I guess my guide hinted well! These are better than I thought!  I can’t wait until I get the call!


----------



## tidefan

I think we will pass on these.  We have enough points and quite honestly, perhaps more than we need (though I wouldn't mind just a few more at BLT)

I do think these will sell fairly quickly, however.  Good luck to all of you tomorrow!


----------



## DisneyMom_3

rubybutt said:


> Yeah, don't do that exchange.  You can rent them for 50% more than that.


I wouldn’t!  
But, I wanted to make sure that I could have both - the incentives and the option to rent out a few points if needed to make up the difference. I had said my max was $50k, so trying to justify the extra $4-5k.


----------



## rubybutt

DisneyMom_3 said:


> I wouldn’t!
> But, I wanted to make sure that I could have both - the incentives and the option to rent out a few points if needed to make up the difference. I had said my max was $50k, so trying to justify the extra $4-5k.


as a wise man once said:  "silencio bruno"


----------



## DisneyMom_3

Sandisw said:


> You mean you are not going to check the website after midnight like me??
> 
> Just kidding. I won’t be doing that!!


So glad we stayed up for this!


----------



## davidl81

There is no way DVC prices it under $255, this is a flagship.  Past history be damned, there is a new CEO…


----------



## Helvetica

I am really temped to buy a small 50 point add-on contract. With my 200 at Riviera, it would put me at 250 points total with contracts at two of my favorite resorts. 

I was originally going to buy 250 points at Riviera, but I settled with 200 when they did the resale restrictions. 

...I may have already sent in a request. I guess we'll see what they tell me tomorrow. I have so many questions.


----------



## Sandisw

DisneyMom_3 said:


> So glad we stayed up for this!



I actually did go to bed at 10:45 but popped awake! Now I am glad I did.


----------



## HIRyeDVC

Let the “I told you so“ begin! On a side note, this bodes really well for DLT pricing. So excited!!


----------



## davidl81

sethschroeder said:


> VGF resale has to take a hit unless there is some funny business with these contracts.
> 
> People could right now buy 300 points split and just sell off the 150 point contract for a profit at today's prices. No way that holds.


Anyone buying VGF resale over the past few months was not making a great decision unless they got a great deal IMO.  There was always at least a 50% chance VGF would be priced on par with RIV.


----------



## Sandisw

HIRyeDVC said:


> Let the “I told you so“ begin! On a side note, this bodes really well for DLT pricing. So excited!!



I think k it does! I wonder if DVD realized that the current market just can’t bear more right now!


----------



## DonMacGregor

davidl81 said:


> There is no way DVC prices it under $255, this is a flagship.  Past history be damned, there is a new CEO…


Now we get to see it "totally destabilize the resale market"...


----------



## davidl81

HIRyeDVC said:


> Let the “I told you so“ begin! On a side note, this bodes really well for DLT pricing. So excited!!


DLT pricing will fall in line with current WDW active prices at the time.  They will let the point chart do the heavy lifting over there.


----------



## HIRyeDVC

davidl81 said:


> Anyone buying VGF resale over the past few months was not making a great decision unless they got a great deal IMO.  There was always at least a 50% chance VGF would be priced on par with RIV.


This is unfair especially in hindsight. There was no way to know what Disney was going to do. Speculation has been all over the place.


----------



## davidl81

Sandisw said:


> I think k it does! I wonder if DVD realized that the current market just can’t bear more right now!


I’ve always felt that if RIV was selling 120k points a month VGF would be priced higher.  But with RIV barely selling 70k the market was telling DVC that pricing was already too high.


----------



## Sandisw

HIRyeDVC said:


> This is unfair especially in hindsight. There was no way to know what Disney was going to do. Speculation has been all over the place.



I think anyone buying since the sales date was announced probably should have waited, but honestly, buyers knew it was possibly to be more too.


----------



## davidl81

DonMacGregor said:


> Now we get to see it "totally destabilize the resale market"...


It will effect VGF resale, but nothing else really.


----------



## rubybutt

davidl81 said:


> Anyone buying VGF resale over the past few months was not making a great decision unless they got a great deal IMO.  There was always at least a 50% chance VGF would be priced on par with RIV.



And I know myself and others tried to warn them out of it.... so it goes


----------



## Sandisw

davidl81 said:


> I’ve always felt that if RIV was selling 120k points a month VGF would be priced higher.  But with RIV barely selling 70k the market was telling DVC that pricing was already too high.



I think in a few months we will get to finally have some real info to see if features of RIV, like resale restrictions, are playing a role, with this resort priced similar.

I am not surprised about the 50 point minimum either.


----------



## rubybutt

Sandisw said:


> I think in a few months we will get to finally have some real info to see if features of RIV, like resale restrictions, are playing a role, with this resort priced similar.
> 
> I am not surprise about the 50 point minimum either.


I think we need to give it 90 days and then look at it.  There was obvious pent up demand and VGF will blow RIV out this month.  Especially since new members can't buy yet.


----------



## Sandisw

rubybutt said:


> I think we need to give it 90 days and then look at it.  There was obvious pent up demand and VGF will blow RIV out this month.  Especially since new members can't buy yet.



Yeah…March won’t count because it’s owners. But come sales data for April and May should lead us somewhere.

Now, wouldn’t the icing on the cake be to find out they will be removing restrictions!

Okay…that may be a little too much pixie dust.


----------



## davidl81

Sandisw said:


> I think in a few months we will get to finally have some real info to see if features of RIV, like resale restrictions, are playing a role, with this resort priced similar.
> 
> I am not surprise about the 50 point minimum either.


It will be interesting.  I think the idea is to market an Epcot resort and a MK resort.  Both premium products.  VGF just has a name advantage .  People have heard about Grand Floridian for years, since they were kids maybe. RIV doesn’t have that going for it.


----------



## Sandisw

davidl81 said:


> It will be interesting.  I think the idea is to market an Epcot resort and a MK resort.  Both premium products.  VGF just has a name advantage .  People have heard about Grand Floridian for years, since they were kids maybe. RIV doesn’t have that going for it.



I had said you may get people to buy both If similar!


----------



## davidl81

Sandisw said:


> Yeah…March won’t count because it’s owners. But come sales data for April and May should lead us somewhere.
> 
> Now, wouldn’t the icing on the cake be to find out they will be removing restrictions!
> 
> Okay…that may be a little too much pixie dust.


It more likely that restriction get added to VGF2 somehow than restriction go away.  I think the restrictions are a long term strategy unfortunately.


----------



## Sandisw

davidl81 said:


> It more likely that restriction get added to VGF2 somehow than restriction go away.  I think the restrictions are a long term strategy unfortunately.



Me too and they don’t bother me! I’m just so darn happy I emailed my guide to say I changed my mind to 150!   Woohoo!


----------



## tjkraz

HIRyeDVC said:


> This is unfair especially in hindsight. There was no way to know what Disney was going to do. Speculation has been all over the place.



For more than 10 years, every new DVC resort debuted at the same prevailing price as other active properties. GF was a little different in that it was moving from a higher “sold out” price back to active. Nevertheless, in order to predict what DVC was going to do, all we had to do was look at past practices. Those who thought VGF would break the mold were betting against history.


----------



## smmora

Sandisw said:


> Me too and they don’t bother me! I’m just so darn happy I emailed my guide to say I changed my mind to 150!   Woohoo!


I went from 100 to 125 to get a lil discount, but really want DLT


----------



## DisneyMom_3

davidl81 said:


> It will be interesting.  I think the idea is to market an Epcot resort and a MK resort.  Both premium products.  VGF just has a name advantage .  People have heard about Grand Floridian for years, since they were kids maybe. RIV doesn’t have that going for it.


True!
Riviera is absolutely beautiful, but you can’t see Cinderella Castle from there (you see Caribbean Beach instead). 
I would love the rooms at RIV in the VGF building. I was really hoping this would happen with the recent refurbishment.


----------



## HIRyeDVC

Sandisw said:


> I think in a few months we will get to finally have some real info to see if features of RIV, like resale restrictions, are playing a role, with this resort priced similar.
> 
> I am not surprised about the 50 point minimum either.


So you think resale restriction is still possible? I can’t see how they can start selling these tomorrow without disclosing that little detail


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

So, the same base as other current resorts less incentives.  Never heard any predictions of that.


----------



## HIRyeDVC

I love all this chatter at this hour! Usually, I feel like the only one on these boards at this hour since I’m in Hawaii time!


----------



## dvc lover 1970

HIRyeDVC said:


> So you think resale restriction is still possible? I can’t see how they can start selling these tomorrow without disclosing that little detail


I cannot see how they can implement restrictions when it is part of the original resort.


----------



## Sandisw

HIRyeDVC said:


> So you think resale restriction is still possible? I can’t see how they can start selling these tomorrow without disclosing that little detail



They would disclose it but I don’t think they will. I will for sure ask my guide as it won’t matter to me rega4dless.

Ax I mentioned, it would have been in updated documents filed and we would know. By now.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

davidl81 said:


> It will effect VGF resale, but nothing else really.



Yes.  Just back to levels that it was a year or two ago.


----------



## DisneyMom_3

Not to change the subject (I realize I’m probably on the wrong thread), but with these new points I’m buying tomorrow (tied it back in ), what would you do?
I didn’t have enough points for our last two nights in a GV at VGF and it’s no longer available, so would you book 2 - 2 bedrooms (waitlisting the GV)? Or, try to get RIV GV at 7 months? It will be my extended family’s first trip, so I don’t want to overwhelm them with switching resorts, but the GV at RIV..


----------



## Sandisw

DisneyMom_3 said:


> Not to change the subject (I realize I’m probably on the wrong thread), but with these new points I’m buying tomorrow (tied it back in ), what would you do?
> I didn’t have enough points for our last two nights in a GV at VGF and it’s no longer available, so would you book 2 - 2 bedrooms (waitlisting the GV)? Or, try to get RIV GV at 7 months? It will be my extended family’s first trip, so I don’t want to overwhelm them with switching resorts, but the GV at RIV..



RIV GV!


----------



## rubybutt

I hope Rosegold didn't have a heart attack.


----------



## HIRyeDVC

Sandisw said:


> RIV GV!


You are so excited! you really should get some sleep before you start spending all that money in a few hours


----------



## WestCoastDVC

Anyone know when the refurbishments will be done and if purchasing now, for what date can one start making reservations?


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

WestCoastDVC said:


> Anyone know when the refurbishments will be done and if purchasing now, for what date can one start making reservations?



I saw somewhere opening in late June.  Details on making reservations I haven't seen if it's even known yet.


----------



## DonMacGregor

davidl81 said:


> It will effect VGF resale, but nothing else really.


Exactly, but it's yet another rampant speculation that will be interesting to watch the backpedaling on too.


----------



## Sandisw

DonMacGregor said:


> Exactly, but it's yet another rampant speculation that will be interesting to watch the backpedaling on too.



Unless you have more aggressive buyers and antsy sellers at BLT and Poly and we see a slight dip there temporarily?


----------



## HIRyeDVC

Sandisw said:


> Unless you have more aggressive buyers and antsy sellers at BLT and Poly and we see a slight dip there temporarily?


Hasn’t BLT and Poly resale dipped already the past few months before any of this VGF2 hoopla?


----------



## Sandisw

HIRyeDVC said:


> Hasn’t BLT and Poly resale dipped already the past few months before any of this VGF2 hoopla?



Not really. I was thinking  back into the 140s


----------



## Ruttangel

Ruttangel said:


> DVCRM has a new VGF listing for 50 points at $220pp, they don't seem concerned about this being over-priced. They also have 30% of VGF listings sitting over 30 days and 70% of listings are at $195 and over.
> Let's see if these reduce at all next week.


Heh @pkrieger2287, there’s a DVC show for you. How does resale market react to these pricings.?
DVCRM have a 200pt listing at $201 but direct is $186, I appreciate its member only so far but it will be $190 for new members on 31st March. Unsustainable for VGF listings But also what impact on other resorts?


----------



## Cyberc1978

If will for sure impact VGF resale pricing. Questions is how much? Maybe I can pick up some cheap SAP points  

Also will it impact BLT and Poly too and if so how much?


----------



## Duckbug.Ducktales

DisneyMom_3 said:


> True!
> Riviera is absolutely beautiful, but you can’t see Cinderella Castle from there (you see Caribbean Beach instead).
> I would love the rooms at RIV in the VGF building. I was really hoping this would happen with the recent refurbishment.


From the VGF rooms, Cinderella's castle looks quite small and distant, if you can see it. Still charming, but from the standard view rooms and some preferred at RVA, you can see Spaceship Earth and it's beautiful now all lit up at night. Really special and fewer points.


----------



## Nabas

Sandisw said:


> I think anyone buying since the sales date was announced probably should have waited, but honestly, buyers knew it was possibly to be more too.


People who recently bought smaller resale contracts below $207pp still come out ahead, especially if they included 2020 points.


----------



## Nabas

150-to-160 point resale contracts currently are averaging *$195* per point.

For comparison, the $10 discount brings todays direct price for existing members to *$197* per point.

100-point VGF resale contracts currently are averaging *$199* per point.

For comparison, the direct price for a 100-point contract for an existing member is *$207* per point.

Keeping in mind that new buyers have a 150-point minimum requirement and discounts are being reduced on March 31, resale prices are still cheaper, but only just.

This should ripple through resale prices.

It will be fun to see where resale prices are next week!


----------



## Duckbug.Ducktales

This is all so exciting, lol. Now we speculate and wait about the impact to the resale market. VGF2 just keeps on giving, lol

Looking forward to the DLT discussions when that draws near. DVD, just take my money already!


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

VGF resale prices really only jumped with 2 things happening - 1st the overall increase in the resale market that pretty much every resort saw in the past 10-12 months and 2nd - all direct VGF sales stopping.  15 months ago I purchased 100 pts for $152/pt so it's not as if it spent a long time around the $200/pt mark.  A little more than a year before that I had a seller come back to me after declining an offer I made of $155/pt.  There have always been a few outliers here and there of course.  And in the meantime those who did purchase resale have had more time with it and depending on what they received most likely an extra year or two of points, maybe 3 with certain UY's and banked/expiring points which could potentially equate to $20-$22 for every point on the rental market.  And certainly a savings if they were used by the owner for a trip given the lack of discounts and often lack of Disney rooms during the past year and a half.  

Keeping things in perspective the fact that a timeshare could sell 8 years later for the same as it did initially, is an easy rental and also gives owners the location when they stay at WDW there shouldn't be anything to be all that sad about no matter when someone purchased VGF resale or direct.  All assuming DVC made sense for them to start with.


----------



## Samita

WestCoastDVC said:


> Anyone know when the refurbishments will be done and if purchasing now, for what date can one start making reservations?


3/14 for owners at GF and 5/13 for all members


----------



## RoseGold

OMG CHEAP is not a good thing IMO.  If DVC is willing to fling points this low, they need cash.  I wouldn't be surprised to see a flip of a failed beach resort or some bungalows now.  RIP everyone's point value.  DVC kept going up and up and up because DVC held value, even Aulani.  If Disney is trying to undercut owners with cheap points, resale has no chance.

Just another example of DVC hosing existing members.  We should know by now, the mouse always wins.

Heck, I bet even Pete regrets buying Aulani in the fire sale with pricing this low.


----------



## nuhusky123

HIRyeDVC said:


> Let the “I told you so“ begin! On a side note, this bodes really well for DLT pricing. So excited!!


Oh I told ya so


----------



## nuhusky123

RoseGold said:


> OMG CHEAP is not a good thing IMO.  If DVC is willing to fling points this low, they need cash.  I wouldn't be surprised to see a flip of a failed beach resort or some bungalows now.  RIP everyone's point value.  DVC kept going up and up and up because DVC held value, even Aulani.  If Disney is trying to undercut owners with cheap points, resale has no chance.
> 
> Just another example of DVC hosing existing members.  We should know by now, the mouse always wins.
> 
> Heck, I bet even Pete regrets buying Aulani in the fire sale with pricing this low.


goes to show the dvc show folks should take an Economics Class, their $260 and above predictions. they were not even close to reality


----------



## vnovabri

RoseGold said:


> OMG CHEAP is not a good thing IMO.  If DVC is willing to fling points this low, they need cash.  I wouldn't be surprised to see a flip of a failed beach resort or some bungalows now.  RIP everyone's point value.  DVC kept going up and up and up because DVC held value, even Aulani.  If Disney is trying to undercut owners with cheap points, resale has no chance.
> 
> Just another example of DVC hosing existing members.  We should know by now, the mouse always wins.
> 
> Heck, I bet even Pete regrets buying Aulani in the fire sale with pricing this low.



I think it's important to remember that DVC isn't an investment It's not Disney's job to inflate the resale market. I see this as a positive that DVC isnt trying to price gouge and providing a better point of entry for people who want to buy direct.

This is also an existing resort so it was hard for me to understand why people thought a shorter term contract than RIV should cost so much more.


----------



## RoseGold

WOW.  Resale already adjusting.  It's 6AM!!!


----------



## kdm31091

I think the price makes sense in that the new building consists of studios with fewer amenities. Obviously it’s a great deal though for using for 11 months at the original building.


----------



## DKZB

Wow! 200 points is $186, over 250 is $185….I fear I may spend more than I want to over the next month!


----------



## CaptainAmerica

Any volunteers to come kick me in the shins every 15-20 minutes today to stop me from buying Aulani?


----------



## CaptainAmerica

RoseGold said:


> OMG CHEAP is not a good thing IMO.  If DVC is willing to fling points this low, they need cash.  I wouldn't be surprised to see a flip of a failed beach resort or some bungalows now.  RIP everyone's point value.  DVC kept going up and up and up because DVC held value, even Aulani.  If Disney is trying to undercut owners with cheap points, resale has no chance.
> 
> Just another example of DVC hosing existing members.  We should know by now, the mouse always wins.
> 
> Heck, I bet even Pete regrets buying Aulani in the fire sale with pricing this low.


If they were desperate for cash, they wouldn't be ROFRing Beach Club and elsewhere left and right.


----------



## jbreen2010

I really thought this was going to be higher. Buying 300 points at GF direct is now same as if you wanted to add on other resorts. But I’ll take it!


----------



## CaptainAmerica

jbreen2010 said:


> I really thought this was going to be higher. Buying 300 points at GF direct is now same as if you wanted to add on other resorts. But I’ll take it!


I just wish there was some Direct resort in the pipeline that I actually LIKED. I'm very encouraged by the pricing and incentives, but I still don't really love GFV or Riviera, and Aulani is too far to get to regularly.


----------



## vacay77

I'm on the DVC website - where is everyone finding the new info for Grand Floridian?  I see the incentives for Aulani and Riviera - are they better, the same, or worse than the previous incentives that were recently advertised?  Asking for a friend (lol, maybe).


----------



## stwaldman

vacay77 said:


> I'm on the DVC website - where is everyone finding the new info for Grand Floridian?  I see the incentives for Aulani and Riviera - are they better, the same, or worse than the previous incentives that were recently advertised?  Asking for a friend (lol, maybe).


Are you a member? If so, it's in the "add on tool". If not it may still be waiting for non member sales.


----------



## vacay77

stwaldman said:


> Are you a member? If so, it's in the "add on tool". If not it may still be waiting for non member sales.



I am - thank you!  I just logged in and did what you suggested and voila, it's there


----------



## lowlight

CaptainAmerica said:


> If they were desperate for cash, they wouldn't be ROFRing Beach Club and elsewhere left and right.



No, but maybe they are opening room space at BCV to house people when they do a quick flip of Yacht club to DVC with“resort style rooms”.  I don’t think they are desperate, I think they’re greedy and will go for the easy money from now on, which means these quick conversions from hotel to DVC.


----------



## RoseGold

It's Home > My DVC > Add On Tool.  It's not in the Cost of Membership yet.  Disney IT will add that later, I'm sure, after they fix the other website issues.


----------



## SusieQ93

Ruttangel said:


> Heh @pkrieger2287, there’s a DVC show for you. How does resale market react to these pricings.?
> DVCRM have a 200pt listing at $201 but direct is $186, I appreciate its member only so far but it will be $190 for new members on 31st March. Unsustainable for VGF listings But also what impact on other resorts?


Even if you’re a non member and have to wait, it would be a poor choice to buy resale right now (unless you want under 150 pts), you might not even make it through ROFR by March 31 and you def wouldn’t close by then, then more waiting for the points to actually show up.


----------



## CaptainAmerica

lowlight said:


> No, but maybe they are opening room space at BCV to house people when they do a quick flip of Yacht club to DVC with“resort style rooms”.  I don’t think they are desperate, I think they’re greedy and will go for the easy money from now on, which means these quick conversions from hotel to DVC.


Flipping Yacht Club wouldn't be easy like GFV was easy because there's no existing Condo Association to roll the points into. It would save them a few bucks on the construction side but Legal would be the same as building a new resort from scratch.


----------



## RoseGold

CaptainAmerica said:


> Flipping Yacht Club wouldn't be easy like GFV was easy because there's no existing Condo Association to roll the points into. It would save them a few bucks on the construction side but Legal would be the same as building a new resort from scratch.



They could add the RIV restrictions.  Convert the lousy view rooms.  Win-win for DVC.


----------



## Nabas

RoseGold said:


> OMG CHEAP is not a good thing IMO.  If DVC is willing to fling points this low, they need cash.  I wouldn't be surprised to see a flip of a failed beach resort or some bungalows now.  RIP everyone's point value.  DVC kept going up and up and up because DVC held value, even Aulani.  If Disney is trying to undercut owners with cheap points, resale has no chance.
> 
> Just another example of DVC hosing existing members.  We should know by now, the mouse always wins.
> 
> Heck, I bet even Pete regrets buying Aulani in the fire sale with pricing this low.


Please keep in mind that this is an introductory price designed to encourage sales in the first month.

Sales almost certainly will be strong at this price, which will allow Disney to increase prices in the near future.

If you are going to buy, then buy now.


----------



## CaptainAmerica

RoseGold said:


> They could add the RIV restrictions.  Convert the lousy view rooms.  Win-win for DVC.


I'm not convinced they WANT to add the RIV restrictions. I think it backfired and I speculate that they're just as likely to abandon them, even at RIV, than expand them further.


----------



## Sandisw

CaptainAmerica said:


> I'm not convinced they WANT to add the RIV restrictions. I think it backfired and I speculate that they're just as likely to abandon them, even at RIV, than expand them further.



I think when things had to change because of Covid, the strategy had to change.

If Reflections had been kept a go, this would not have happened right now. 

But, they had to come up with a back up plan and these hotel conversions was it. If it does well..think it will…it will be the way forward.

My guess…new condo association to BWI or BC to convert some rooms to DVC with a 60 year contract so that they absorb in BCV or BWV into them when they expire.

If that were to  happen,  I can see the restrictions  sticking around


----------



## CaptainAmerica

Sandisw said:


> But, they had to come up with a back up plan and these hotel conversions was it. If it does well..think it will…it will be the way forward.


Here and there, and for a period of time, sure. But it can't be "the way forward." They still have a cash business where they're able to rent the vast majority of these rooms at huge nightly rates to people who are never in a million years going to buy DVC. They can nibble at the edges to get through a weird few years, but "gobble up all of the cash inventory" isn't viable long-term.


----------



## hcortesis

RoseGold said:


> It's Home > My DVC > Add On Tool.  It's not in the Cost of Membership yet.  Disney IT will add that later, I'm sure, after they fix the other website issues.


Add on Tool cannot be viewed from Canada.  At least Ontario.


----------



## Marionnette

Woke up this morning to the news. I admit that I was wrong about the base price but I'm very surprised that the incentives are much better for RIV. I really didn't expect that. I thought that VGF2's base would be higher with better incentives to bring it close to RIV.

Welcome to the VGF Family to all you new owners at the resort. I hope that you love it as much as we do!


----------



## Marionnette

Samita said:


> 3/14 for owners at GF and 5/13 for all members
> View attachment 651685


I guess this means that we should have an opening date soon? Shall we start speculating on when it will be?

I can envision long waits for MS on 3/14 when everyone tries to book a fall stay in one of the 100 studios that have been declared.


----------



## BeachClub2014

.....and now we know. Congrats to all you eager GFV buyers, this is a great price with good incentives. Your wish has come true! I will miss this thread with the building excitement and anticipation.


----------



## Frugal Fairy Tales

rubybutt said:


> add on tooll showing $207.  Now lets wait for incentive numbers.


HOLY WOW! All of you Grand Floridian buyers must have been very very good this year.! Merry $207!


----------



## Mike9865

nuhusky123 said:


> goes to show the dvc show folks should take an Economics Class, their $260 and above predictions. they were not even close to reality



Or perhaps they are motivated to push people to buy resale instead of direct because it personally benefits them?


----------



## TT4Dis

RoseGold said:


> WOW.  Resale already adjusting.  It's 6AM!!!


I’m just over here waiting with anticipation to see how resale prices may drop. I’d love to see a VGF drop force a little dip in other MK area resorts. We would love some CC points but if it stays above VGF we may use VGF as sleep around points for other MK area resorts.


----------



## ninafeliz

Woo hoo, what great news to wake up to!  $179 a point for 300 points.  I was going to wait until my guide emailed me but caved and checked this thread.  I think as long as there are no surprises we’re going to go ahead with two 150 point contracts.  We still get the 300 point price doing that, right?  I’m so happy we didn’t buy resale in the past year, it briefly crossed our minds but prices seemed high to me knowing this was coming.  Even if it had been less, not lower enough to justify IMO.


----------



## nuhusky123

Mike9865 said:


> Or perhaps they are motivated to push people to buy resale instead of direct because it personally benefits them?


highly possible but look what they did to their brand. Did they try to create fomo and a rush on contracts to benefit them or are they just really that bad at this?


----------



## Nutbean

ninafeliz said:


> Woo hoo, what great news to wake up to!  $179 a point for 300 points.  I was going to wait until my guide emailed me but caved and checked this thread.  I think as long as there are no surprises we’re going to go ahead with two 150 point contracts.  We still get the 300 point price doing that, right?  I’m so happy we didn’t buy resale in the past year, it briefly crossed our minds but prices seemed high to me knowing this was coming.  Even if it had been less, not lower enough to justify IMO.



I believe so, will just have to pay two closing costs (maybe skip title search fees?)

I’m thinking of doing the same thing actually. Was originally just considering 150 points to get the blue card (we own 100 resale points at CC) but $179/point for 300 is very tempting.

Now if can get 2021 points with my April use year, I will be ecstatic!


----------



## BWV Dreamin

Congrats everyone who bid $207!! What is the special incentive listed for Bay Lake and Polynesian?


----------



## BWV Dreamin

Ruttangel said:


> Heh @pkrieger2287, there’s a DVC show for you. How does resale market react to these pricings.?
> DVCRM have a 200pt listing at $201 but direct is $186, I appreciate its member only so far but it will be $190 for new members on 31st March. Unsustainable for VGF listings But also what impact on other resorts?


I think small resale contracts may only have to adjust slightly. If you are not a member, this will still be the only way to get in under 150 points.


----------



## AGP

If anyone gets confirmation of any restrictions please post!  At this price I want to buy VGF but will not buy if I can only use the points there…. Isn’t that how RIV works?  You can only stay at RIV with them, right?


----------



## Helvetica

AGP said:


> If anyone gets confirmation of any restrictions please post!  At this price I want to buy VGF but will not buy if I can only use the points there…. Isn’t that how RIV works?  You can only stay at RIV with them, right?



The Resale Restrictions at Riviera only apply to resale contracts. If you buy Riviera from Disney, you can stay anywhere. VGF shouldn't have those restrictions since it's the same condo association, but we'll have to wait and see if that's the case or not.


----------



## RebelScum

Yes - Confirmation that there are no resale restrictions is key.  I am probably in the minority that actually likes Riviera better than GF.  So with the price nearly at par, I will let the restrictions decide.  Basically, if there are restrictions on VGF2, then I will be adding on at RIV.


----------



## JoeDisney247365

RebelScum said:


> I am probably in the minority that actually likes Riviera better than GF.  So with the price nearly at par, I will let the restrictions decide.  Basically, if there are restrictions on VGF2, then I will be adding on at RIV.


Count me in this group as well.


----------



## pkrieger2287




----------



## hayesdvc

Another great Disney decision I made.  Deed recorded last week for 100 VGF @ $185.

I assume with the $207 (less incentives price), I overspent by $2500 once the resale prices are changed.

I never thought for the "flagship" Disney resort direct price would:  1.drop  2. drop by $50

To feel the love even more, I assume with all the increased direct sales DVC will receive beginning today for the next couple of weeks, getting these additional resale points added to my membership will be at the bottom of their list to do.


----------



## pkrieger2287

Ruttangel said:


> Heh @pkrieger2287, there’s a DVC show for you. How does resale market react to these pricings.?
> DVCRM have a 200pt listing at $201 but direct is $186, I appreciate its member only so far but it will be $190 for new members on 31st March. Unsustainable for VGF listings But also what impact on other resorts?



I think we need to watch Grand Floridian closely over the next year... This is a huge sales tactic and will bring historic numbers to DVC Direct Sales, but they will not undercut the value of their product like this for long.  Current incentives expire March 30th... let's see what the price is after that date.  I think we will see a gradual increase.  This is the honeymoon stage.


----------



## pkrieger2287

nuhusky123 said:


> goes to show the dvc show folks should take an Economics Class, their $260 and above predictions. they were not even close to reality



Did you watch that show?  Pretty sure I said $225 and had some sound logic behind that thought process... Thanks for watching though!!


----------



## Dis Runner

Just spoke to my guide and picked up 300 points at VGF2! Was expecting the Riviera price range but did not expect the great incentives, super stoked!


----------



## Wedgeout

pkrieger2287 said:


> Did you watch that show?  Pretty sure I said $225 and had some sound logic behind that thought process... Thanks for watching though!!


Yes! Love the show. Should be an awesome one coming from this event.


----------



## nuhusky123

pkrieger2287 said:


> Did you watch that show?  Pretty sure I said $225 and had some sound logic behind that thought process... Thanks for watching though!!


You were the most logical of the bunch Hands down, no contest there

The $260 numbers won’t age well. Arguments about dlt and how sold out prices were $255 and therefore gfv2 can’t be lower


----------



## Redheadprincess

CaptainAmerica said:


> If they were desperate for cash, they wouldn't be ROFRing Beach Club and elsewhere left and right.


They have been for the last 2 months. Buying almost 50% of BCV, BWV  and OKW.


----------



## gisele2

Can someone tell us the poor Canadian member what the prices are ? I cannot see any direct prices from my province.


----------



## SleeplessInTO

Redheadprincess said:


> They have been for the last 2 months. Buying almost 50% of BCV, BWV  and OKW.


I wonder if these will be the new fire sale properties.  Shame the incentives at 300 points are so good for VGF2, I won’t have any funds left to buy these even at good prices. Oh well.


----------



## SleeplessInTO

gisele2 said:


> Can someone tell us the poor Canadian member what the prices are ? I cannot see any direct prices from my province.


https://dvcexplorer.com/fin/m/GrandFloridian_Member_DeveloperCredit.pdf


----------



## Matty B13

I'm waiting on a VGF contract to pass ROFR right now at $185/point..... kinda hoping they take it.


----------



## RamblinWreck

davidl81 said:


> Anyone buying VGF resale over the past few months was not making a great decision unless they got a great deal IMO.  There was always at least a 50% chance VGF would be priced on par with RIV.


I agree. I sold my resale VGF contract for $205 pp late last year.

I could buy back the same thing for $2 more now and actually be able to combine it with my RIV points.

Obviously that’s not factoring in the costs of selling, and closing costs for buying the new one. But I’d still easily make that trade.

The question is, does my wife agree or does she think we have enough?


----------



## Sandisw

CaptainAmerica said:


> Here and there, and for a period of time, sure. But it can't be "the way forward." They still have a cash business where they're able to rent the vast majority of these rooms at huge nightly rates to people who are never in a million years going to buy DVC. They can nibble at the edges to get through a weird few years, but "gobble up all of the cash inventory" isn't viable long-term.



I don't mean that the hotel conversions has to mean hotel rooms and only resort studios or they take all of the hotel.

  I just mean they will take existing properties and rooms (not all) and make them DVC without having to develop an entire new property.

So, instead of BCV being it at BC, some of that hotel becomes DVC as well and it rebalances the resort between cash and DVC.


----------



## Ruttangel

pkrieger2287 said:


> I think we need to watch Grand Floridian closely over the next year... This is a huge sales tactic and will bring historic numbers to DVC Direct Sales, but they will not undercut the value of their product like this for long.  Current incentives expire March 30th... let's see what the price is after that date.  I think we will see a gradual increase.  This is the honeymoon stage.


You have to remember this was a very cheap cost refit. Selling at $207 will still get a massive profit. I can't see the price changing until the second set of incentives end on 1st June. Those resale listings look insane right now across all brokers.


----------



## Sandisw

Marionnette said:


> I guess this means that we should have an opening date soon? Shall we start speculating on when it will be?
> 
> I can envision long waits for MS on 3/14 when everyone tries to book a fall stay in one of the 100 studios that have been declared.



When we were discussing things the other day, my guide seemed to indicate that earlier summer, prior to my July 20th trip, was more likely than not.

Someone posted they read end of June...I will ask today when I get my call!


----------



## DisneyMom_3

Dis Runner said:


> Just spoke to my guide and picked up 300 points at VGF2! Was expecting the Riviera price range but did not expect the great incentives, super stoked!


 
Are there any resale restrictions?


----------



## DeeBee3

I've been on this thread for quite a while, but still curious - if you already own direct, and you are not in love with VGF, is resale still a good deal? I do check out the listings but it's unfamiliar to me.


----------



## Bjaiken77

How much extra does it cost to split a contract?  Let’s say I want 200 points.  What do I have to do to get 2 contracts at 100 and the promo price associated with 200?


----------



## nlenguyen

pkrieger2287 said:


> Did you watch that show?  Pretty sure I said $225 and had some sound logic behind that thought process... Thanks for watching though!!


I am just so surprised to have priced it the same as riveria. That gives some hope for Disneyland Tower


----------



## princesscinderella

Matty B13 said:


> I'm waiting on a VGF contract to pass ROFR right now at $185/point..... kinda hoping they take it.


Might be worth canceling and losing your deposit if you don’t already own direct points.


----------



## nlenguyen

Matty B13 said:


> I'm waiting on a VGF contract to pass ROFR right now at $185/point..... kinda hoping they take it.


I’m sure they won’t take it with them currently selling it


----------



## Marionnette

Bjaiken77 said:


> How much extra does it cost to split a contract?  Let’s say I want 200 points.  What do I have to do to get 2 contracts at 100 and the promo price associated with 200?


You pay the document prep and closing costs for two deeds but the incentives would be at the 200-point level as long as both are the same UY.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

CaptainAmerica said:


> Any volunteers to come kick me in the shins every 15-20 minutes today to stop me from buying Aulani?


I would love to.


----------



## princesscinderella

I definitely recommend paying the extra closing to have multiple small contracts so if you did want to downsize points you easily can.  We bought VGF1 in 3-50 point contracts so we could give one to each kid later


----------



## CarolMN

gisele2 said:


> Can someone tell us the poor Canadian member what the prices are ? I cannot see any direct prices from my province.


I assume that DVD has not yet received permission from your province to market VGF2 there, and that's why you can't see the prices.  You can see prices on DVCNews, though:

https://www.dvcnews.com/dvc-program/financial/news-34867/5242-grand-floridian-pricing-debuts


----------



## BWV Dreamin

Matty B13 said:


> I'm waiting on a VGF contract to pass ROFR right now at $185/point..... kinda hoping they take it.


Don’t beat yourself up over this. I was one who bought last April at $255/pt (60 pts) before the announcement. I got previous years points. I gave my son and new bride a VGF honeymoon. I rented out next 2021 points. I do not consider my extra $2300 points waisted as I have recouped this and more. We can not predict the future. You still got a great price. Stop worrying and enjoy those points!!!


----------



## Kaufeegurl

Can anyone confirm how the charge appears on a CC? I need to let my CC company know about a forthcoming big purchase


----------



## TinkB278

No new concept art was released with the pricing was it? Really want to buy but also a bit nervous about how the rooms actually turn out. I was disappointed in the main VGF refurb, the concept art made it look much nicer. Also I’m not trusting their judgment ever since they decided to go with plaid headboards


----------



## TCRAIG

just called mine in - ended up getting 125 instead of my planned 118 since the discount gave me 7 extra points for $450.  One thing my guide did say - even with an April UY - I won’t get my points til 2022 and they won’t be usable til VGF2 opens - even on other properties.


----------



## peabody58

Yeah those points may look tempting to some, but you also have to factor in the Point Chart. 

Personally I'll stick with my recent 100 BWV points at $200/pt and enjoy some of the cheapest room points on site. Yes it's a 2014 resort, but I'll be well on my way to 6 ft under by then. DW surprised me this morning by saying our previous GFV stay in 2014 was good enough for her and we didn't really need to go back as long as we could stay at BWV/BLT.  

To all those buying VGF2, good for you and here's to many happy stays at your new home.


----------



## DisneyMom_3

princesscinderella said:


> I definitely recommend paying the extra closing to have multiple small contracts so if you did want to downsize points you easily can.  We bought VGF1 in 3-50 point contracts so we could give one to each kid later


This is my plan! I have 3 kids that are still minors.


----------



## TinkB278

TCRAIG said:


> just called mine in - ended up getting 125 instead of my planned 118 since the discount gave me 7 extra points for $450.  One thing my guide did say - even with an April UY - I won’t get my points til 2022 and they won’t be usable til VGF2 opens - even on other properties.


So no double points?


----------



## dfan_welcomehomeall_19

Anyone know if they are prorating dues?


----------



## zebsterama

Well I woke up this morning .... and let me say after looking at the chart  ... that's a pleasant surprise


----------



## gisele2

CarolMN said:


> I assume that DVD has not yet received permission from your province to market VGF2 there, and that's why you can't see the prices.  You can see prices on DVCNews, though:
> 
> https://www.dvcnews.com/dvc-program/financial/news-34867/5242-grand-floridian-pricing-debuts


They would have to promote in french too. Because we are a really small market , I do not see them going down that way. Thank you for the link.


----------



## Matty B13

BWV Dreamin said:


> Don’t beat yourself up over this. I was one who bought last April at $255/pt (60 pts) before the announcement. I got previous years points. I gave my son and new bride a VGF honeymoon. I rented out next 2021 points. I do not consider my extra $2300 points waisted as I have recouped this and more. We can not predict the future. You still got a great price. Stop worrying and enjoy those points!!!


Yeah it's a tough call right now, it is a fully loaded contract (2021 points and 2022 points) and only paying for the 2022 MF's.  So if I rent the 2021 points it would bring the contract down to about $165/point.  I'm a blue card member so that isn't a huge consideration, but I do like the idea of breaking it up into 50 & 25 point contracts to reach 175 points instead of having a 170 point contract.


----------



## DonMacGregor

TCRAIG said:


> just called mine in - ended up getting 125 instead of my planned 118 since the discount gave me 7 extra points for $450.  One thing my guide did say - even with an April UY - I won’t get my points til 2022 and they won’t be usable til VGF2 opens - even on other properties.


This was another point of debate: would they give 2021 points for UY’s still in 2021, even though none of the units were deeded in 2021.


----------



## JETSDAD

So from the original post on the expansion, I was off a bit on the pts and the incentives but starting price and room info was good. I just couldn't see how they would expect to sell so many points when they didn't have a lot of demand as it was for the sold out price.



JETSDAD said:


> Ok, here are my predictions....I'd love to see what others predict (all in good fun).
> 
> Layouts stay essentially the same as the current hotel rooms.  A quick refresh more than a renovation just based on the timeline they're working under.
> 
> Price starting at $205-210/pt with incentives bringing it into the 190's.
> 
> Standard Resort Studios starting at 18 pts/night low season, Lakeview starting at 21 pts/night, Theme Park View starting at 25 pts/night.


----------



## kilik64

Unless im completely wrong, the points for 2021 dont exist, so how could they give you those?


----------



## TinkB278

If we are planning to buy less points than the 125 required to get an incentive is there any reason to hurry up and buy right now?


----------



## sethschroeder

nuhusky123 said:


> goes to show the dvc show folks should take an Economics Class, their $260 and above predictions. they were not even close to reality



Lets not at like $179 for 300 points was reality either. Disney is doing this it would seem to cash in quick which is opposite of what some of us thought. Those projecting higher starting price were expecting Disney to leverage this longer.

I think this just signals Disney is trying to quickly sell out possibly as they have plans for future hotel flips before other rooms come up to refurbs.

So if we think a 2-3 year sell out it would be 2024-25 resort refurbishments. We would be at 8-9 years since the Beach Club refurbishment so possibly they focus there. Which would be when RIV is possibly winding down. Who knows though.


----------



## sethschroeder

TinkB278 said:


> If we are planning to buy less points than the 125 required to get an incentive is there any reason to hurry up and buy right now?



Not really unless Disney were to raise the price once the initial presale is done but I would be surprised by that but it wouldn't be the first time I was shocked.


----------



## nuhusky123

TinkB278 said:


> If we are planning to buy less points than the 125 required to get an incentive is there any reason to hurry up and buy right now?


there Is always a chance dvc increases the base price in April


----------



## DonMacGregor

kilik64 said:


> Unless im completely wrong, the points for 2021 dont exist, so how could they give you those?


Exactly. These are new Units, which didn’t exist in 2021, and their initial deed inception date is 2022.


----------



## dfan_welcomehomeall_19

Just added on! So I have multiple UYs (CCV, BLT, and VGF). I added to my Dec UY. No 2021 points as other members stated however dues prorated (only pay one mo of 2022 dues)


----------



## Sandisw

DisneyMom_3 said:


> Are there any resale restrictions?



No changes to the resale restrictions for these points, so same as current. Only good at 014.


----------



## Sandisw

kilik64 said:


> Unless im completely wrong, the points for 2021 dont exist, so how could they give you those?



My thought was not the new units but for the current building and those are what would be sold from what is in stock for the UYs in 2021 once opening happened.

But obviously they are only just selling new points deeded to the BPK.


----------



## TinkB278

dfan_welcomehomeall_19 said:


> Just added on! So I have multiple UYs (CCV, BLT, and VGF). I added to my Dec UY. No 2021 points as other members stated however dues prorated (only pay one mo of 2022 dues)


So they are prorating dues based on your UY?


----------



## hhisc16

How long do we think before VGF2 sells out now?


----------



## RebelScum

We just added on 200 pts.  Guide confirmed that there are no resale restrictions, similar to RIV.  So, moving forward.  However, when I get the DocuSign I will be scouring them to be sure nothing is hiding.


----------



## sndral

Sandisw said:


> No changes to the resale restrictions for these points, so same as current. Only good at 014.


To be clear - if I buy direct at VGF2 I can reserve at VGF1 & VGF2 at 11 months & at all resorts including Riv at 7 months?
If I sell my VGF2 points my resale buyer is in a better position than a Riv resale buyer - who is limited to Riv @ 7 months - a VGF2 resale buyer can reserve at O14 @ 7 months?


----------



## RebelScum

Guide also said June for a planned opening date.


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

One way to think about it is that they are selling you, today, an ownership that starts when your UY starts, rather than immediately.


----------



## LisaDKG

I am happy to be wrong at predicting a PP price of $225 and we just purchased 2 contracts of 75 each to add VGF to our home resorts of BLT and VGC!


----------



## AGP

Sandisw said:


> No changes to the resale restrictions for these points, so same as current. Only good at 014.


What do you mean by “only good at 014”? Thanks


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

sndral said:


> To be clear - if I buy direct at VGF2 I can reserve at VGF1 & VGF2 at 11 months & at all resorts including Riv at 7 months?
> If I sell my VGF2 points my resale buyer is in a better position than a Riv resale buyer - who is limited to Riv @ 7 months - a VGF2 resale buyer can reserve at O14 @ 7 months?


Yes


----------



## RebelScum

sndral said:


> To be clear - if I buy direct at VGF2 I can reserve at VGF1 & VGF2 at 11 months & at all resorts including Riv at 7 months?
> If I sell my VGF2 points my resale buyer is in a better position than a Riv resale buyer - who is limited to Riv @ 7 months - a VGF2 resale buyer can reserve at O14 @ 7 months?


That is what my guide said.  However, I will verify that when I get the paperwork.


----------



## cgodzyk

I was all set to pass on this.  DH said we don't need any more points.  (We already have 3 200 point CC contracts, 1 200 point RIV and 1 200 point VGF contract).  But, $207 plus incentives?  This makes easy math for someone with 3 kids!  2 contracts per kid!  

I guess I have to figure out how many points do I want!


----------



## stwaldman

sorry if this was already answered, many posts. For those buying today, i understand that booking for *new* resort villas begins on 3.14, but are points available to be used in existing VGF rooms before then, or is it simply "all of your new points aren't available until 3/14"


----------



## Duckbug.Ducktales

nuhusky123 said:


> goes to show the dvc show folks should take an Economics Class, their $260 and above predictions. they were not even close to reality


Well, I don't think they are claiming to be economists anyway. Just people giving their opinions same as everyone. 

But I was surprised that nobody on the show brought up the point that me and other here kept coming back to: 255 was a sold out price. Now it's going to be an active-sales resort, that's a big difference. They need to sell a whole lotta points, plus historically new resorts come in at the same price as existing for sale resorts. No matter now, now we know!


----------



## Ruttangel

WOW I just spoke to a DVC broker that insist they have information from a DVC rep that price will be $250 from 1st April

EDIT - pushed a lot back at them and I'm not following their logic and therefore not agreeing with it


----------



## Jwaire

So, now that we know their strategy, is it going to be Yacht Club, Coronado or Polynesian next?


----------



## CarolMN

TinkB278 said:


> So they are prorating dues based on your UY?


More likely to be from date VGF2 opens.  Current estimate for that is late June.


----------



## Sandisw

sndral said:


> To be clear - if I buy direct at VGF2 I can reserve at VGF1 & VGF2 at 11 months & at all resorts including Riv at 7 months?
> If I sell my VGF2 points my resale buyer is in a better position than a Riv resale buyer - who is limited to Riv @ 7 months - a VGF2 resale buyer can reserve at O14 @ 7 months?



Correct!


----------



## VdoesDisney

I am planning to add 85 points, is there any reason to rush to get this done today? Obviously need to do it while the price is at $207 (so before April 1st presumably), I am seeing a lot of eagerness from people here to add ASAP, am I missing something?


----------



## Sandisw

AGP said:


> What do you mean by “only good at 014”? Thanks



Any one who purchases resale is limited to be O14 resorts

So matter where VGF is deeded, new or old, those points when sold are treated the same.

As direct points, owners can use anywhere


----------



## TinkB278

CarolMN said:


> More likely to be from date VGF2 opens.  Current estimate for that is late June.


Even though those of us with late year UYs won’t have access to the points for most of the year?


----------



## VdoesDisney

Jwaire said:


> So, now that we know their strategy, is it going to be Yacht Club, Coronado or Polynesian next?


My vote goes to YC, I bet it would sell even faster than VGF2.


----------



## Sandisw

VdoesDisney said:


> I am planning to add 85 points, is there any reason to rush to get this done today? Obviously need to do it while the price is at $207 (so before April 1st presumably), I am seeing a lot of eagerness from people here to add ASAP, am I missing something?



Now that we know there are no 2021 points, and no incentives under 100, I’d only rush if I wanted to use them for any trips that take place in the 2022 UY


----------



## Bali2012

In case it helps others as just of the phone from my guide who said he was calling UK contacts first as we are well into the day. Then east coast.
For UK (contract information may vary for those in USA)
- no finance so no deposit taken; 
- contracts done electronically via docusign, 
- payment can be made by credit card or wired 
- credit card payment can be taken in more than one chunk over a few days
- points will likely be in account by the end of the US working day today even though not yet paid 
- Reservations cannot be made for dates before June at the moment as that is the expected opening.
-  Dues will be prorated once open.
-  Use Year matched - so for me that means Feb use year 2022 points added.
- No restrictions for me as direct member, but if sold then the restriction would be that the points could not be used at Riviera which is the same as the existing VGF1.


----------



## DonMacGregor

Sandisw said:


> Any one who purchases resale is limited to be O14 resorts
> 
> So matter where VGF is deeded, new or old, those points when sold are treated the same.
> 
> As direct points, owners can use anywhere


Also, “O14” is DVC shorthand for “Original 14”.


----------



## Sandisw

TinkB278 said:


> So they are prorating dues based on your UY?



You will pay dues based on date of resort opening or start of your 2022 UY points…whichever is later.

For me, I switched to June UY. I’ll pay from resort open.  If I had kept Dec UY, I’d pay for just one month.


----------



## Bali2012

Sandisw said:


> They would disclose it but I don’t think they will. I will for sure ask my guide as it won’t matter to me rega4dless.
> 
> Ax I mentioned, it would have been in updated documents filed and we would know. By now.


I asked - if sold on then the points could not be used at Riviera by the new owner - told it was the same restriction if someone had sold their VGF1 contract.


----------



## VdoesDisney

Sandisw said:


> Now that we know there are no 2021 points, and no incentives under 100, I’d only rush if I wanted to use them for any trips that take place in the 2022 UY


Thanks, I have a VGF trip planned in August and want to swap the points to use my new VGF2 points, that should be fine regardless of when I buy this month, right?


----------



## Epcot Forever Forever

Ruttangel said:


> WOW I just spoke to a DVC broker that insist they have information from a DVC rep that price will be $250 from 1st April


Given the source (the broker, not you) I’m going to say that’s just a flat out lie.


----------



## DVCRad

Matty B13 said:


> I'm waiting on a VGF contract to pass ROFR right now at $185/point..... kinda hoping they take it.


They won’t take it now that GFV is being actively sold again. If the penalty for you breaking the contract is just the deposit, that might be an option for you.


----------



## Sandisw

VdoesDisney said:


> Thanks, I have a VGF trip planned in August and want to swap the points to use my new VGF2 points, that should be fine regardless of when I buy this month, right?



Assuming you have a UY that starts before the August trip and will have the 2022 points

I added on a new UY so I won’t be able to move my Dec UY borrowed points back. But that is okay.


----------



## CarolMN

Sandisw said:


> You will pay dues based on date of resort opening or start of your 2022 UY points…whichever is later.
> 
> For me, I switched to June UY. I’ll pay from resort open.  If I had kept Dec UY, I’d pay for just one month.



Finding that hard to believe.  That would mean one couldn't borrow late use year 2022 VGF points to reserve anything, anywhere, even though other Members with points from other resorts could.  Makes more sense to pay from open.


----------



## Jwaire

VdoesDisney said:


> My vote goes to YC, I bet it would sell even faster than VGF2.



I agree. I'd rather they do YC the right way though, like Copper Creek as I want 1 and 2 bedroom options. 



Epcot Forever Forever said:


> Given the source (the broker, not you) I’m going to say that’s just a flat out lie.



Yeah, I agree. I could see the base price rising for all currently selling resorts. So $210, $215, etc but not $250 just for GFV.


----------



## dfan_welcomehomeall_19

TinkB278 said:


> So they are prorating dues based on your UY?


Yes. I THINK (not 100%on this since mine fell after this date) but prorated to opening date (June) if UY falls before or if UY after you pay prorated based on UY


----------



## Redheadprincess

Ruttangel said:


> WOW I just spoke to a DVC broker that insist they have information from a DVC rep that price will be $250 from 1st April


I'm gonna wait to see that, too big of an increase. They still need to sell  first to  new owners.


----------



## Bali2012

davidl81 said:


> Anyone buying VGF resale over the past few months was not making a great decision unless they got a great deal IMO.  There was always at least a 50% chance VGF would be priced on par with RIV.


I nearly put in an offer for resale - it was circa $189 I think but it went quickly. My sister pointed me at this thread and advised I read it before making a call. I decided to wait, as with restrictions and the seemingly never ending trend of price increases and minimum points increase, it felt for me personally the right time to move add direct, as my other contract is resale BWV. 
Very glad for this thread!


----------



## VdoesDisney

Sandisw said:


> Assuming you have a UY that starts before the August trip and will have the 2022 points
> 
> I added on a new UY so I won’t be able to move my Dec UY borrowed points back. But that is okay.


Got it, thanks so much, you always have all the info we need!


----------



## Bjaiken77

Just added on 200 points.  Congrats to everyone who had this work out well for them.  It’s exciting!!!


----------



## VdoesDisney

Jwaire said:


> I agree. I'd rather they do YC the right way though, like Copper Creek as I want 1 and 2 bedroom options.



Agreed, I would need those options to buy at YC, but seeing what they did with VGF2 I think they are seeing these “resort” room conversions are cash generating machines


----------



## tjkraz

Sandisw said:


> You will pay dues based on date of resort opening or start of your 2022 UY points…whichever is later.
> 
> For me, I switched to June UY. I’ll pay from resort open.  *If I had kept Dec UY, I’d pay for just one month.*



...and wouldn't be able to use the first set of points for stays occurring before December 2022 unless borrowed into the 2021 Use Year. With borrowing currently limited to 50%.


----------



## Jwaire

VdoesDisney said:


> Agreed, I would need those options to buy at YC, but seeing what they did with VGF2 I think they are seeing these “resort” room conversions are cash generating machines



I think it's less about cash and more about getting those empty rooms, rising maintenance costs on those older buildings and rising housekeeping costs off their resort balance sheets.


----------



## tjkraz

VdoesDisney said:


> Agreed, I would need those options to buy at YC, but seeing what they did with VGF2 I think they are seeing these “resort” room conversions are cash generating machines



It plays into the profitability, for sure.

If DVC can renovate rooms much cheaper than building new and pass those savings along to buyers, it's sort of a win/win.


----------



## Bjaiken77

Jelly563 said:


> For those of you who are not willing to pay more than $250 a point...... please move out of the way and stand on the side while the people with real money make their purchases.  Don't worry, the rest will be able to bid on availability at the 7month mark.



I feel a little bad that you might bump into riff-raff like me at the GF.  There goes the neighborhood!


----------



## lowlight

Nobody seems to be bothered by not getting 2021 points.  I understand why it happened, but it still adjusts the balance sheet when it comes down to it and makes the price less appealing.  For 300 points, that’s about 6k.  Not only is resale less, but if you find a contract that isn’t stripped, you can get previous UY points as well.  Am I calculating this incorrectly?


----------



## nuhusky123

I’m just glad that they made the call no 2021 points. I’m April and would have been bummed if some got points and I didn’t


----------



## Duckbug.Ducktales

lowlight said:


> Nobody seems to be bothered by not getting 2021 points.  I understand why it happened, but it still adjusts the balance sheet when it comes down to it and makes the price less appealing.  For 300 points, that’s about 6k.  Not only is resale less, but if you find a contract that isn’t stripped, you can get previous UY points as well.  Am I calculating this incorrectly?


You're definitely right that it makes a difference. But the delta is still too narrow to be able to buy direct and have unrestricted points. If that is of no interest to you, then a loaded resale contract at the right price makes sense. I think it does make a difference for a lot of buyers.


----------



## DonMacGregor

Bjaiken77 said:


> I feel a little bad that you might bump into riff-raff like me at the GF.  There goes the neighborhood!


I'd almost be tempted to buy the minimum, just to walk around in ratty cut-off jeans and a sweat-stained wife beater (John Deere cap optional).


----------



## SleeplessInTO

I have March UY and was debating between getting a new UY or foregoing 2021 points. Now I don’t have to decide.


----------



## Duckbug.Ducktales

nuhusky123 said:


> I’m just glad that they made the call no 2021 points. I’m April and would have been bummed if some got points and I didn’t


Lol, misery loves company?


----------



## wnielsen1

CarolMN said:


> Finding that hard to believe.  That would mean one couldn't borrow late use year 2022 VGF points to reserve anything, anywhere, even though other Members with points from other resorts could.  Makes more sense to pay from open.


Unless things have changed, Sandi is absolutely correct.  Dues in the initial year will be the later of your UY or the resort opening date.  If they were providing 2021 points, then everyone would pay from resort opening date.


----------



## lowlight

Duckbug.Ducktales said:


> You're definitely right that it makes a difference. But the delta is still too narrow to be able to buy direct and have unrestricted points. If that is of no interest to you, then a loaded resale contract at the right price makes sense. I think it does make a difference for a lot of buyers.


But after the resale market inevitably bumps down,  the delta would likely be where it was at pre stop of sales, no?  To me the a main equalizer of buying direct is previous use year points.  It’s really hard to make the math of direct vs resale make sense otherwise.


----------



## Bjaiken77

DonMacGregor said:


> I'd almost be tempted to buy the minimum, just to walk around in ratty cut-off jeans and a sweat-stained wife beater (John Deere cap optional).



I know, right?  I can just hear it: “Martha, move all our reservations to the Yacht Club.  Have you seen the savages at GF?  Ghastly!”


----------



## TinkB278

Bjaiken77 said:


> I feel a little bad that you might bump into riff-raff like me at the GF.  There goes the neighborhood!


Yikes I really hope that person wasn’t being serious.


----------



## DonMacGregor

lowlight said:


> Nobody seems to be bothered by not getting 2021 points.  I understand why it happened, but it still adjusts the balance sheet when it comes down to it and makes the price less appealing.  For 300 points, that’s about 6k.  Not only is resale less, but if you find a contract that isn’t stripped, you can get previous UY points as well.  Am I calculating this incorrectly?


Very true, but I don't see how they could have done it differently. The issue, ostensibly, would be that you have only the VGF1 units available to book, but are selling additional points that can also be used there at 11 months (if you load VGF2 with 2021 UY points). With VGF1 sold out and therefore balancing out  (hypothetically VGF1 requiring 1million points to fully book with 1 million points sold), you'd be adding, at least initially, several hundred thousand points also free to book at VGF1 immediately since they would be within their 2021 UY (same association) creating an imbalance.

Granted, DVC may hold some points (beyond their legally required 2% stake), so VGF1 is never really "sold out", but really how many points would they have for wriggle room? The booking capacity just wouldn't be there to absorb the influx of new points before VGF2 units came online.

Until VGF2 was online with villas to book, you could potentially have 1.2 million (or whatever the number might be) combined VGF1 and VGF2 11-month points trying to book strictly VGF1 rooms that equal 1 million points when fully booked. It would be like selling 300 seats on a 250 seat plane.

Definitely not great for the metrics, but unavoidable.


----------



## jacec

Just closed a 300 point contract at VGF!    Now time to sell my SSR contract.

Thanks for the tip on the $4k back on Capital One,   Total price after cash back will be $49.7k or about $165.6 per point.   I'm a bit ticked at myself for jumping on a resale 100 point agreement in ROFR at $186/point.  At least that contract has all the 2021 points so maybe can make it up in rental.   (who am I kidding,  I know I'll burn them). 

Congrats all !


----------



## ninafeliz

Well, I just bought 2 150 point contracts!  We have a December use year, so it was kind of hard to wrap my head around the fact that we won’t have any points for 10 months.  I guess at least we won’t pay any fees until then, but I would have rather had the fees and the points!  The way my guide explained it was that we are actually buying a presale, since it isn’t open yet.  It just doesn’t feel like it since GF1 is open.  It was in the ballpark of $350 more for us to split into 2 contracts rather than one 300 point contract; well worth it I think.  I paid the 10% plus closing today and will call tomorrow after deciding on the next exact plan to have our guide divide the remaining amount into 4 payments and put one on a cc weekly (so we can pay off in between, but still get the cc points).  The balance has to be paid in 30 days- we could wire it, mail a check, or cc.  For cc they will divide it up and do chunks or put it all on at once.  We have an available HELOC, so we have to decide if we want to use some of it vs all cash, etc.  but I wanted to get it bought.  If I know we’re getting it I wanted the darned luggage lol.


----------



## DisneyMom_3

lowlight said:


> Nobody seems to be bothered by not getting 2021 points.  I understand why it happened, but it still adjusts the balance sheet when it comes down to it and makes the price less appealing.  For 300 points, that’s about 6k.  Not only is resale less, but if you find a contract that isn’t stripped, you can get previous UY points as well.  Am I calculating this incorrectly?


I agree! I have a December UY, so I’m a little bummed and second guessing purchasing 300.


----------



## Frugal Fairy Tales

RamblinWreck said:


> I agree. I sold my resale VGF contract for $205 pp late last year.
> 
> I could buy back the same thing for $2 more now and actually be able to combine it with my RIV points.
> 
> Obviously that’s not factoring in the costs of selling, and closing costs for buying the new one. But I’d still easily make that trade.
> 
> The question is, does my wife agree or does she think we have enough?


Is there such thing as enough?


----------



## Jwaire

Just in case anyone is new and this is going to be your first direct purchase (of a minimum of 150 points), be sure to find a direct member to send you a referral link so you can save an additional $500. I know we don't promote that, but it's free money and hardly anyone knows about it. The member doesn't get much (like a dining gift card, maybe?), but $500 at least helps with closing.

Edit: Apparently, it's only for newbies, not current resale members.


----------



## ninafeliz

jacec said:


> Just closed a 300 point contract at VGF!    Now time to sell my SSR contract.
> 
> Thanks for the tip on the $4k back on Capital One,   Total price after cash back will be $49.7k or about $165.6 per point.   I'm a bit ticked at myself for jumping on a resale 100 point agreement in ROFR at $186/point.  At least that contract has all the 2021 points so maybe can make it up in rental.   (who am I kidding,  I know I'll burn them).
> 
> Congrats all !


Do you already have capital one, or did you apply to use for this?  We just bought the same amount, and will get roughly $1000 for using the Disney visa.  Might be worth looking into for $3000, but we don’t currently have capital one and I don’t really know if I want another cc or not.  Plus we would have to apply immediately.


----------



## ifraha

If I did two 75 point contracts, would I still have direct member benefits since it total to 150?


----------



## tidefan

Jwaire said:


> So, now that we know their strategy, is it going to be Yacht Club, Coronado or Polynesian next?


My guess is that they will tear down Aruba at CBR and build high point "Mediterranean Suites" to add to the existing RIV condo association.  Then, when they are in a few years, they rebalance points and the regular rooms become more expensive point wise...


----------



## BeachClub2014

DonMacGregor said:


> I'd almost be tempted to buy the minimum, just to walk around in ratty cut-off jeans and a sweat-stained wife beater (John Deere cap optional).


 We'd be twins. That image is almost enough to tempt me to buy. Almost.  LOL


----------



## lowlight

DonMacGregor said:


> Very true, but I don't see how they could have done it differently. The issue, ostensibly, would be that you have only the VGF1 units available to book, but are selling additional points that can also be used there at 11 months (if you load VGF2 with 2021 UY points). With VGF1 sold out and therefore balancing out  (hypothetically VGF1 requiring 1million points to fully book with 1 million points sold), you'd be adding, at least initially, several hundred thousand points also free to book at VGF1 immediately since they would be within their 2021 UY (same association) creating an imbalance.
> 
> Granted, DVC may hold some points (beyond their legally required 2% stake), so VGF1 is never really "sold out", but really how many points would they have for wriggle room? The booking capacity just wouldn't be there to absorb the influx of new points before VGF2 units came online.
> 
> Until VGF2 was online with villas to book, you could potentially have 1.2 million (or whatever the number might be) combined VGF1 and VGF2 11-month points trying to book strictly VGF1 rooms that equal 1 million points when fully booked. It would be like selling 300 seats on a 250 seat plane.
> 
> Definitely not great for the metrics, but unavoidable.


 
It does make sense, and I think you were the one who initially predicted no previous use year points.   I was just holding out hope they would use some from ROFR buybacks or breakage or whatever to give that extra incentive to buy direct.  Because what it looks like to me now is 227 per point (valuing points at 20$ per for rental purposes) plus incentives, which for most people was a solid no, but nobody is batting an eye at it now.


----------



## Nutbean

ifraha said:


> If I did two 75 point contracts, would I still have direct member benefits since it total to 150?



Yes you would. If you ever sold one of the contracts, you would lose your blue club membership though.


----------



## DonMacGregor

lowlight said:


> It does make sense, and I think you were the one who initially predicted no previous use year points.   I was just holding out hope they would use some from ROFR buybacks or breakage or whatever to give that extra incentive to buy direct.  Because what it looks like to me now is 227 per point (valuing points at 20$ per for rental purposes) plus incentives, which for most people was a solid no, but nobody is batting an eye at it now.


I think that was the hope of @Sandisw, but given that they weren't hauling in a ton of VGF1 points through ROFR, and VGF1 IS "sold out", at some point they would have run out of surplus VGF1 points. They'd have to do something like literally "while supplies last" as an incentive, which I think is way too fluid and unpredictable for Disney.


----------



## Nutbean

Just purchased two 150 point memberships. A little bummed that we don’t get 2021 points but the $179/point still makes it worth it to me. I was genuinely not expecting it to be less than the BLT promotion that just expired.


----------



## ffindis

jacec said:


> Just closed a 300 point contract at VGF!    Now time to sell my SSR contract.
> 
> Thanks for the tip on the $4k back on Capital One,   Total price after cash back will be $49.7k or about $165.6 per point.   I'm a bit ticked at myself for jumping on a resale 100 point agreement in ROFR at $186/point.  At least that contract has all the 2021 points so maybe can make it up in rental.   (who am I kidding,  I know I'll burn them).
> 
> Congrats all !


I just looked but couldn't find the tip about $4000 back with Capital One.  I already have a Capital One card.  How can I get money back with a DVC purchase?  If you could post the link I would really appreciate it.  Thanks.


----------



## SleeplessInTO

I'm pretty happy with my 150+50 point purchase. Waiting on paperwork but am absurdly happy... to be giving Disney this much money. Will really miss this thread though.


----------



## nuhusky123

SleeplessInTO said:


> I'm pretty happy with my 150+50 point purchase. Waiting on paperwork but am absurdly happy... to be giving Disney this much money. Will really miss this thread though.


I changed my paperwork to reflect 150-50 after seeing your post so thanks for that


----------



## SleeplessInTO

nuhusky123 said:


> I changed my paperwork to reflect 150-50 after seeing your post so thanks for that


Awesome! Just be aware closing costs will probably be an additional $400 or so because of the two separate contracts. But hopefully removing title insurance offsets that extra cost.


----------



## hcortesis

ffindis said:


> I just looked but couldn't find the tip about $4000 back with Capital One.  I already have a Capital One card.  How can I get money back with a DVC purchase?  If you could post the link I would really appreciate it.  Thanks.


Ya, I'm trying to figure this one out also.  I too have a Capital One card but I can't figure out how someone is getting such a high % back


----------



## ninafeliz

SleeplessInTO said:


> I'm pretty happy with my 150+50 point purchase. Waiting on paperwork but am absurdly happy... to be giving Disney this much money. Will really miss this thread though.





nuhusky123 said:


> I changed my paperwork to reflect 150-50 after seeing your post so thanks for that


Just curious, why 150 and 50?  Just for easier potential resale or is there something else?  We did 150 and 150 instead of 300, but for 200 I think we would have just bought 200
So I’m just wondering if there is some other nuance I might be missing!


----------



## ninafeliz

hcortesis said:


> Ya, I'm trying to figure this one out also.  I too have a Capital One card but I can't figure out how someone is getting such a high % back


I’m wondering if it’s a new card member incentive?  Like sometimes you get 100,000 points for opening an AmEx platinum?


----------



## TinkB278

So title insurance is automatically included but is not necessary and can be taken off?
 If so, what could one expect to save by removing this?


----------



## MRO2306

Has anyone seen if the are offering a Military Developer Credit with VG2?


----------



## SleeplessInTO

ninafeliz said:


> Just curious, why 150 and 50?  Just for easier potential resale or is there something else?  We did 150 and 150 instead of 300, but for 200 I think we would have just bought 200
> So I’m just wondering if there is some other nuance I might be missing!


Yes, its just in case we want to downsize in the future and keep the blue card. It seems like small point contracts go for a higher price on the resale market, and gives us the option of retaining just the 150 instead of debating if we want to sell all 200 at once. Paying more in extra closing costs today for some flexibility that we may or may not want in the future.


----------



## CarolMN

wnielsen1 said:


> Unless things have changed, Sandi is absolutely correct.  Dues in the initial year will be the later of your UY or the resort opening date.  If they were providing 2021 points, then everyone would pay from resort opening date.


 I don't think she is wrong,  maybe her guide has misinformation.  It just seems wrong that someone could borrow (for example) 2022 points from a December use year if they owned BLT and use those to book a stay at VGF2 in October, but a VGF2 owner with December couldn't do the same.


----------



## mort1331

As tempting as it is to add on,,,we would still be paying 30% on top of that with where our Can$ is now. Cant do it. Glad we bought when dollar was par, sad we did not buy more. But will wait and see.


----------



## ninafeliz

SleeplessInTO said:


> Yes, its just in case we want to downsize in the future and keep the blue card. It seems like small point contracts go for a higher price on the resale market, and gives us the option of retaining just the 150 instead of debating if we want to sell all 200 at once. Paying more in extra closing costs today for some flexibility that we may or may not want in the future.


Ok makes sense.  I don’t pay that much attention, but I do know small contracts go for more.  We need 2 BRs so small contracts do nothing for us- a 150 point contract is small in our case lol (but it really isn’t funny, when I see how much more we could go with studios I could cry.  I just don’t look at that because it doesn’t matter.  Same reason that I don’t look at the points per night anywhere but VGF and Riviera, since those are where we now own !).


----------



## ninafeliz

TinkB278 said:


> So title insurance is automatically included but is not necessary and can be taken off?
> If so, what could one expect to save by removing this?


What is this about?  My guide just quoted me closing costs, nothing about specifics or options.  This is the first I’ve read anything g about this.


----------



## SusieQ93

lowlight said:


> Nobody seems to be bothered by not getting 2021 points.  I understand why it happened, but it still adjusts the balance sheet when it comes down to it and makes the price less appealing.  For 300 points, that’s about 6k.  Not only is resale less, but if you find a contract that isn’t stripped, you can get previous UY points as well.  Am I calculating this incorrectly?


It’s a huge bummer. I kind of had my trips planned out in my head and now I need to change my plans. I mean that’s my fault for getting too attached to an idea without having confirmation that is how it would work. I guess that would be one reason to purchase RIV vs VGF. Anyway was planning on doing two special trips including my mom, she’s done a lot to help me with childcare during the pandemic so taking her on both trips was going to be my thank you to her.


----------



## Dyefrog

ninafeliz said:


> Do you already have capital one, or did you apply to use for this?  We just bought the same amount, and will get roughly $1000 for using the Disney visa.  Might be worth looking into for $3000, but we don’t currently have capital one and I don’t really know if I want another cc or not.  Plus we would have to apply immediately.


Can you put the entire contract amount on the Disney Visa?


----------



## DVChris

My CM confirmed there is a military discount available.
https://dvcexplorer.com/fin/wm/GrandFloridian_Member_MilitaryDiscount_TravelSet.pdf


----------



## sethschroeder

Bali2012 said:


> - credit card payment can be taken in more than one chunk over a few days



You likely can push them on this to get it extended. I have done payments every 30 days over a 90 day period in the past. This might be different now but you can always ask.



lowlight said:


> Nobody seems to be bothered by not getting 2021 points.



You never were getting 2021 points because the resort didn't exist in 2021. If you want wait until right before your UY in 2023 and then you will get the 2022 points for "free" but the price likely will end up being more.


----------



## sethschroeder

Dyefrog said:


> Can you put the entire contract amount on the Disney Visa?



You can charge it however you want. If you have the limit you can do it.


----------



## DVCRad

MRO2306 said:


> Has anyone seen if the are offering a Military Developer Credit with VG2?


Yes, they are.

https://dvcexplorer.com/fin/wm/GrandFloridian_Member_MilitaryDiscount_TravelSet.pdf


----------



## ninafeliz

Dyefrog said:


> Can you put the entire contract amount on the Disney Visa?


Yes, as long as your credit limit is high enough- that’s your limiting factor.  But they will also divide up your balance and put it on a portion  at a time over the 30 days you have to pay the balance.  For example, put 1/4 of the remaining balance on weekly for 4 weeks, so you can pay it off in between but still get the points.  And then leave on the amount you want to carry with 0% balance for 6 months (or just pay it all, whichever is your plan).  

It will affect your credit score though, when you carry a balance even at 0%.  When we did it last time it dropped ours a decent amount- luckily we have very good credit so we were ok but definitely something to keep in mind!  I hadn’t realized and was kind of upset to see my score dip lol.  We don’t normally carry any balances, so it was a change for us.


----------



## TinkB278

Has anyone seen the virtual tour yet? My guide just sent it over and all my doubts about the rooms are gone. It’s absolutely beautiful!


----------



## Sandisw

CarolMN said:


> Finding that hard to believe.  That would mean one couldn't borrow late use year 2022 VGF points to reserve anything, anywhere, even though other Members with points from other resorts could.  Makes more sense to pay from open.



They told me I would have been allowed to borrow even though my MFs would only be one month if I kept Dec UY.

Since I didn’t, I won’t be able to confirm if that turned out to be accurate, but definitely MFs go from resort open or UY, whichever is later.


----------



## Jwaire

CarolMN said:


> I don't think she is wrong,  maybe her guide has misinformation.  It just seems wrong that someone could borrow (for example) 2022 points from a December use year if they owned BLT and use those to book a stay at VGF2 in October, but a VGF2 owner with December couldn't do the same.



But there's no points available yet to borrow. That's the problem. If you have a Dec 2022 use year, there's no points until December to borrow. There's points available for the units sold with GFV1, but not GFV2. GFV2's points don't appear until use year 2022 as it didn't exist in use year 2021 (via declared rooms).

December use year is so confusing. I'm sure they regret even creating it.


----------



## nuhusky123

ninafeliz said:


> Just curious, why 150 and 50?  Just for easier potential resale or is there something else?  We did 150 and 150 instead of 300, but for 200 I think we would have just bought 200
> So I’m just wondering if there is some other nuance I might be missing!


I have an akl blue card contract so if I sell that I keep blue card with gfv 150 and smaller contracts if I ever want to sell easier than 200


----------



## SleeplessInTO

TinkB278 said:


> Has anyone seen the virtual tour yet? My guide just sent it over and all my doubts about the rooms are gone. It’s absolutely beautiful!


I have not! Is there a link to it that you can share? Might be a lovely way to spend my lunch break.


----------



## TinkB278

SleeplessInTO said:


> I have not! Is there a link to it that you can share? Might be a lovely way to spend my lunch break.


I don’t know if it will work because it has a log in. Does anyone else who has seen it know? I don’t know why it’s not on the website! Totally sold me!


----------



## Sandisw

Jwaire said:


> But there's no points available yet to borrow. That's the problem. If you have a Dec 2022 use year, there's no points until December to borrow. There's points available for the units sold with GFV1, but not GFV2. GFV2's points don't appear until use year 2022 as it didn't exist in use year 2021 (via declared rooms).
> 
> December use year is so confusing. I'm sure they regret even creating it.



They said that normal borrowing would be allowed so if you had a Dec UY, the would allow you to borrow back 50% to travel prior to Dec 1st, but after rooms open even though the MFs don’t officially start because the rooms will be open

Well, that’s what I was told.


----------



## SusieQ93

TinkB278 said:


> I don’t know if it will work because it has a log in. Does anyone else who has seen it know? I don’t know why it’s not on the website! Totally sold me!


Oh I want to see! That’s exciting! I’m a non member so probably won’t be available to me to view for a while.


----------



## zebsterama

I apologize - this thread is really taking off. The question might have been answered.

My question is this ... is anyone *who adds on this month *receiving 2021 points for a particular use year? 

Or is the only difference the "due" proration? 

I currently have a March UY. For a few minutes I considered getting a different UY to take advantage of a 2021 point bonus -- but obviously not that thrilled with the idea due to the downsides. 

Thanks!


----------



## ninafeliz

zebsterama said:


> I apologize - this thread is really taking off. The question might have been answered.
> 
> My question is this ... is anyone *who adds on this month *receiving 2021 points for a particular use year?
> 
> Or is the only difference the "due" proration?
> 
> I currently have a March UY. For a few minutes I considered getting a different UY to take advantage of a 2021 point bonus -- but obviously not that thrilled with the idea due to the downsides.
> 
> Thanks!


I’m not completely sure I understand your question (which I’m sure is me, not you!), but my understanding is no one gets 2021 points.  No matter what your use year, you don’t get points until 2022.  So I have a December UY and won’t get any points until Dec 2022.


----------



## SleeplessInTO

zebsterama said:


> I apologize - this thread is really taking off. The question might have been answered.
> 
> My question is this ... is anyone *who adds on this month *receiving 2021 points for a particular use year?
> 
> Or is the only difference the "due" proration?
> 
> I currently have a March UY. For a few minutes I considered getting a different UY to take advantage of a 2021 point bonus -- but obviously not that thrilled with the idea due to the downsides.
> 
> Thanks!


No. No one adding on this month is receiving 2021 points for any use year. My guide confirmed that to me, absolutely no one is getting 2021 points. I asked twice. (I also have a March UY and wanted to know if its everyone or just me. Its everyone.)


----------



## Rcfins13

Hey Everyone, sorry that this has probably been posted already but when does VGF2 go out to the public? My wife and I are not current members and are looking to get into DVC but were waiting to see what happen with this. Now with the current incentives being offered we are seriously considering buying direct instead of resale.


----------



## Marionnette

.


Rcfins13 said:


> Hey Everyone, sorry that this has probably been posted already but when does VGF2 go out to the public? My wife and I are not current members and are looking to get into DVC but were waiting to see what happen with this. Now with the current incentives being offered we are seriously considering buying direct instead of resale.


Sales open to non-members on March 31 but the current incentives only last until March 30. 

According to DVCNews.com, incentives will change to the following on March 31.
*Grand Floridian Add-On Discounts Effective March 31*

125-149 points: $5 off per point
150-174 points: $6 off
175-199 points: $9 off
200-249 points: $17 off
250-299 points: $18 off
300-499 points: $24 off
500-999 points: $26 off
1000+ points: $28 off


----------



## TCRAIG

TinkB278 said:


> So no double points?


Nope


----------



## DKZB

SleeplessInTO said:


> No. No one adding on this month is receiving 2021 points for any use year. My guide confirmed that to me, absolutely no one is getting 2021 points. I asked twice. (I also have a March UY and wanted to know if its everyone or just me. Its everyone.)



I literally just had the same conversation and said I would call them back because I wanted to check with others.

What are they doing with the points that they picked up via ROFR? They told me they are not selling ANYTHING deeded to the old building, no fixed weeks, no 2021 points. I asked a couple times. Anyone else get a different answer?


----------



## TCRAIG

dfan_welcomehomeall_19 said:


> Anyone know if they are prorating dues?


That’s what my guide said - prorated to resort opening


----------



## rubybutt

hhisc16 said:


> How long do we think before VGF2 sells out now?


years


----------



## lowlight

DKZB said:


> I literally just had the same conversation and said I would call them back because I wanted to check with others.
> 
> What are they doing with the points that they picked up via ROFR? They told me they are not selling ANYTHING deeded to the old building, no fixed weeks, no 2021 points. I asked a couple times. Anyone else get a different answer?


What are they doing with them?  Fattening their bottom line, apparently.


----------



## ninafeliz

TCRAIG said:


> That’s what my guide said - prorated to resort opening


Or to your use year.  For a December use year you will only have 1 month of does this year.


----------



## Jwaire

Sandisw said:


> They said that normal borrowing would be allowed so if you had a Dec UY, the would allow you to borrow back 50% to travel prior to Dec 1st, but after rooms open even though the MFs don’t officially start because the rooms will be open
> 
> Well, that’s what I was told.



That’s interesting. Maybe they’re going to use developer points? I’m all for it, but I’d like to know the details. Not that I guess it matters, just for curiously sake.


----------



## RoseGold

They have VGF1 points.  ROFR and foreclosure have been trucking along all this time, and they haven't sold any.  Interesting to hear they aren't selling VGF1 at this price.  Or maybe you had to be really special to get those...


----------



## Marionnette

Jwaire said:


> That’s interesting. Maybe they’re going to use developer points? I’m all for it, but I’d like to know the details. Not that I guess it matters, just for curiously sake.


????

December 2022 points are still 2022 points. Just because the contract would be in its 2021 UY doesn't mean that those points cannot be borrowed for a summer or fall 2022 reservation.


----------



## davidl81

RoseGold said:


> OMG CHEAP is not a good thing IMO.  If DVC is willing to fling points this low, they need cash.  I wouldn't be surprised to see a flip of a failed beach resort or some bungalows now.  RIP everyone's point value.  DVC kept going up and up and up because DVC held value, even Aulani.  If Disney is trying to undercut owners with cheap points, resale has no chance.
> 
> Just another example of DVC hosing existing members.  We should know by now, the mouse always wins.
> 
> Heck, I bet even Pete regrets buying Aulani in the fire sale with pricing this low.


This is literally the highest $pp that DVC has ever opened a resort at and yet we still have people saying this is too cheap and it is devaluing the DVC brand.  I just can’t get behind this logic.


----------



## Rcfins13

Marionnette said:


> .
> 
> Sales open to non-members on March 31 but the current incentives only last until March 30.
> 
> According to DVCNews.com, incentives will change to the following on March 31.
> *Grand Floridian Add-On Discounts Effective March 31*
> 
> 125-149 points: $5 off per point
> 150-174 points: $6 off
> 175-199 points: $9 off
> 200-249 points: $17 off
> 250-299 points: $18 off
> 300-499 points: $24 off
> 500-999 points: $26 off
> 1000+ points: $28 off




They state that it is add-on incentives. So do you think it would be the same for new members like we would be?


----------



## Marionnette

Rcfins13 said:


> They state that it is add-on incentives. So do you think it would be the same for new members like we would be?


Member incentives are almost always better than they are for new buyers.


----------



## DonMacGregor

davidl81 said:


> This is literally the highest $pp that DVC has ever opened a resort at and yet we still have people saying this is too cheap and it is devaluing the DVC brand.  I just can’t get behind this *logic*.


There's your problem...


----------



## Duckbug.Ducktales

davidl81 said:


> This is literally the highest $pp that DVC has ever opened a resort at and yet we still have people saying this is too cheap and it is devaluing the DVC brand.  I just can’t get behind this logic.


My thoughts exactly!


----------



## sethschroeder

davidl81 said:


> This is literally the highest $pp that DVC has ever opened a resort at and yet we still have people saying this is too cheap and it is devaluing the DVC brand.  I just can’t get behind this logic.



Correct but you had this exact resort at $255 a few months ago, they did a massive decrease in the price, and they put on fairly aggressive incentives as well. At 300 points you are down to $179/point which is down where RIV started at $165.50/point for 300 points. $207 for VGF and $188 for RIV at base price as well.

Disney essentially is pricing direct VGF at resale pricing over the past few months. So if they are going to do that with VGF people could see this occurring at a variety of other resorts as well.

Its pretty straightforward why some might be nervous if they own at a resort that has cash rooms that would be easy to flip in to these resort studios.


----------



## zebsterama

SleeplessInTO said:


> No. No one adding on this month is receiving 2021 points for any use year. My guide confirmed that to me, absolutely no one is getting 2021 points. I asked twice. (I also have a March UY and wanted to know if its everyone or just me. Its everyone.)



Thank you for getting back to me ... appreciate it!

Well I guess we're keeping our March UY. 
Cheers


----------



## Rcfins13

Marionnette said:


> Member incentives are almost always better than they are for new buyers.



Thanks for info!


----------



## Frugal Fairy Tales

TinkB278 said:


> Has anyone seen the virtual tour yet? My guide just sent it over and all my doubts about the rooms are gone. It’s absolutely beautiful!


Can you share?


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

pkrieger2287 said:


> I think we need to watch Grand Floridian closely over the next year... This is a huge sales tactic and will bring historic numbers to DVC Direct Sales, but they will not undercut the value of their product like this for long.  Current incentives expire March 30th... let's see what the price is after that date.  I think we will see a gradual increase.  This is the honeymoon stage.



A newly opened resort has historically given a bump in sales volume with the few that have been waiting and the additional "look, shiny new" marketing they'll be able to do for awhile.  But then things level off.  The price was not a surprise because it's what they've done for all new resorts - matched up close to the existing and usually a greater discount to kick off sales.  And eventually everything rises as long as there aren't unusual outside circumstances.  We saw those influences a couple of times in the past two years with larger discounts that surprised people so I wouldn't write it off as a possibility going forward.  DVC tends to sell at a fairly consistent level no matter what the resorts have been that they are selling.


----------



## Duckbug.Ducktales

sethschroeder said:


> Correct but you had this exact resort at $255 a few months ago, they did a massive decrease in the price, and they put on fairly aggressive incentives as well. At 300 points you are down to $179/point which is down where RIV started at $165.50/point for 300 points. $207 for VGF and $188 for RIV at base price as well.
> 
> Disney essentially is pricing direct VGF at resale pricing over the past few months. So if they are going to do that with VGF people could see this occurring at a variety of other resorts as well.
> 
> Its pretty straightforward why some might be nervous if they own at a resort that has cash rooms that would be easy to flip in to these resort studios.


Don't lose sight of the fact that they had this at $255 for a sold-out resort. It's a different ballgame selling so many more points via active sales. Historically, new resorts come in at the current price of other active-sale resorts.


----------



## lowlight

We need new polls now.  1) Do you think they will keep VGF2 priced competitively with Riv past the initial sales season?  and 2) Does Reflections ever rear it's ugly head again, or is it resort flips only for the extended future?


----------



## TCRAIG

My April 2022 points are already available and I was able to use them to book Hilton Head for Sept…so that’s making me happy - I’ll call later and get them to swap out any borrowed points and restore those.


----------



## sethschroeder

Duckbug.Ducktales said:


> Don't lose sight of the fact that they had this at $255 for a sold-out resort. It's a different ballgame selling so many more points via active sales. Historically, new resorts come in at the current price of other active-sale resorts.



Thats fine but everything but RIV, AUL, and now VGF are sold out. So if in another 18 months there is rumors on BCV being the next resort to have cash rooms flipped it will have impacts on the resale market. Additionally RIV while at $207 did not interact as much with resale because of the resale restrictions.

So there should be a worry from other resorts with cash rooms about the next flip being at their resort and how those rumors or actual selling would impact their DVC value.

Many won't worry about it but some do as they view DVC as a short term expenditure they plan on selling again in 5-10 years.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

DonMacGregor said:


> Exactly. These are new Units, which didn’t exist in 2021, and their initial deed inception date is 2022.



The correct term is actually current points.  

This I find shocking - no current points for 1/2 of the UY's?  That I think is unprecedented.   Once the entire resort is open then the points exist.   That Feb-June wouldn't get points until the resort opens is understandable.  That the 2nd half of the year would not?  It defies the system.   I'll have to roll this around in my head a bit more but first reaction is that it gives DVD/DVC several months of inventory.


----------



## sethschroeder

lowlight said:


> 2) Does Reflections ever rear it's ugly head again, or is it resort flips only for the extended future?



I think this is the next big general question for DVC (besides point charts and AP discount sales which have been talked about a ton).


----------



## Sandisw

DKZB said:


> I literally just had the same conversation and said I would call them back because I wanted to check with others.
> 
> What are they doing with the points that they picked up via ROFR? They told me they are not selling ANYTHING deeded to the old building, no fixed weeks, no 2021 points. I asked a couple times. Anyone else get a different answer?



Same answer.  The points they currently have are not being sold.  Only those that come with the new building.   It is why I decided to switch UYs and now have 3 (again)....I wanted points for summer.


----------



## lowlight

I haven't heard a peep from my guide, they must be pretty busy.


----------



## UrsulaWantsYourSoul

lowlight said:


> I haven't heard a peep from my guide, they must be pretty busy.


They may owe you luggage


----------



## SleeplessInTO

My 200 VGF2 points have been loaded. Wow. I'm not sure I can do resale again...

(Edited to add: March UY here.)


----------



## Sandisw

RoseGold said:


> They have VGF1 points.  ROFR and foreclosure have been trucking along all this time, and they haven't sold any.  Interesting to hear they aren't selling VGF1 at this price.  Or maybe you had to be really special to get those...



I think once we get to each UY, they will use either new or old points.  For example, those with Feb and March UY could be deeded to new or old because they have started their 2022 UY.  Come April 1st, they can sell you either, etc.

But, until someone is in their 2022 UY, they will not use the points they have from VGF1.  While I had hoped they would, it probably was so that they didn't run out of points and then have to deal with unequal issues..


----------



## TCRAIG

Anybody else get an email about getting  the luggage for first 500 promo?


----------



## Sandisw

SleeplessInTO said:


> My 200 VGF2 points have been loaded. Wow. I'm not sure I can do resale again...
> 
> (Edited to add: March UY here.)



Didnt get mine yet but this is going to be a new UY so he said it might take a little longer since they are setting it up as a new account..


----------



## hhisc16

lowlight said:


> We need new polls now.  1) Do you think they will keep VGF2 priced competitively with Riv past the initial sales season?  and 2) Does Reflections ever rear it's ugly head again, or is it resort flips only for the extended future?


Start a new thread with this poll...
I think DVC is watching these sales and looking at where they can convert cash room at deluxe to DVC.


----------



## SleeplessInTO

FYI I got my docs. The estimated date unit is available for occupancy is June 19, 2022.


----------



## Sandisw

sethschroeder said:


> Correct but you had this exact resort at $255 a few months ago, they did a massive decrease in the price, and they put on fairly aggressive incentives as well. At 300 points you are down to $179/point which is down where RIV started at $165.50/point for 300 points. $207 for VGF and $188 for RIV at base price as well.
> 
> Disney essentially is pricing direct VGF at resale pricing over the past few months. So if they are going to do that with VGF people could see this occurring at a variety of other resorts as well.
> 
> Its pretty straightforward why some might be nervous if they own at a resort that has cash rooms that would be easy to flip in to these resort studios.



I do get this but what happened still matched what DVD has always done....they start a new property at the same rate as the current property.....the difference is they never had a property that go back into active sales so much later than it was sold out....

Of course, anyone who saw resale value as a big piece of the puzzle may be worried, but it still doesn't mean they devalued the product from a price point., IMO.  It just means that they priced direct at the rate they need to to sell the points and that they don't use resale to set their pricing....they set it based on their own goals.


----------



## RebelScum

SleeplessInTO said:


> My 200 VGF2 points have been loaded. Wow. I'm not sure I can do resale again...
> 
> (Edited to add: March UY here.)


I also bought 200 and our points are also loaded already.  When I spoke to the guide this morning (9:45), she did indicate that we would be getting the luggage.


----------



## sethschroeder

Sandisw said:


> I do get this but what happened still matched what DVD has always done....they start a new property at the same rate as the current property.....the difference is they never had a property that go back into active sales so much later than it was sold out....
> 
> Of course, anyone who saw resale value as a big piece of the puzzle may be worried, but it still doesn't mean they devalued the product from a price point., IMO.  It just means that they priced direct at the rate they need to to sell the points and that they don't use resale to set their pricing....they set it based on their own goals.



Eh can talk about what happened all we want. In the end VGF did lose value already and we will see if other resorts are impacted by this as well.

DVC can do whatever they want though in the end just a new wrinkle for people to be mindful of when buying and thinking about only holding for a "shorter" period of time 5/10/15 years.


----------



## RebelScum

sethschroeder said:


> Eh can talk about what happened all we want. In the end VGF did lose value already and we will see if other resorts are impacted by this as well.
> 
> DVC can do whatever they want though in the end just a new wrinkle for people to be mindful of when buying and thinking about only holding for a "shorter" period of time 5/10/15 years.


Classic demand and supply dynamics at play.  Lots more supply just came to market and will be there until GFV2 sells out.  Once sold out, and we revert to having more buyers than sellers, at current prices, the price will move back up.  We just don't know where that equilibrium will be until it happens.


----------



## DKZB

Still waiting on a call back from the guide but I wanted to poll all of you. My VGF UY is December. Since I won't get my points until December 2022, I will only pay 1 month of 2022 dues correct?


----------



## SleeplessInTO

RebelScum said:


> I also bought 200 and our points are also loaded already.  When I spoke to the guide this morning (9:45), she did indicate that we would be getting the luggage.


I need to read the documents properly tonight, but based upon a quick skim, it looks like the luggage set is actually part of my contract documents.


----------



## davidl81

RebelScum said:


> Classic demand and supply dynamics at play.  Lots more supply just came to market and will be there until GFV2 sells out.  Once sold out, and we revert to having more buyers than sellers, at current prices, the price will move back up.  We just don't know where that equilibrium will be until it happens.


And really the only reason VGF is “losing” value is because resale prices were already so high compared to the rest of DVC.  If they convert two floors of Jambo and offer them at $179pp after incentives that will not effect resale prices.  BCV is the one where if they built rooms at YC then it would hurt BCV resale, but that would be a matter of getting more years than the 2042 resorts.


----------



## ChipNdale8887

sethschroeder said:


> Correct but you had this exact resort at $255 a few months ago, they did a massive decrease in the price, and they put on fairly aggressive incentives as well. At 300 points you are down to $179/point which is down where RIV started at $165.50/point for 300 points. $207 for VGF and $188 for RIV at base price as well.
> 
> Disney essentially is pricing direct VGF at resale pricing over the past few months. So if they are going to do that with VGF people could see this occurring at a variety of other resorts as well.
> 
> Its pretty straightforward why some might be nervous if they own at a resort that has cash rooms that would be easy to flip in to these resort studios.


Not necessarily. Your forgetting there were incentives on top of the base price of $188 for Riv. We bought RIV and the incentives brought it down to $148 per point. (we bought 300 points with a $12,000 off incentive, we got 150 at RIV and 150 at CCV and $6000 off of 150 points at each back in August 2020)


----------



## The Jackal

TCRAIG said:


> Anybody else get an email about getting  the luggage for first 500 promo?


Yes, luggage if 125 points or higher.


----------



## davidl81

sethschroeder said:


> Correct but you had this exact resort at $255 a few months ago, they did a massive decrease in the price, and they put on fairly aggressive incentives as well. At 300 points you are down to $179/point which is down where RIV started at $165.50/point for 300 points. $207 for VGF and $188 for RIV at base price as well.
> 
> Disney essentially is pricing direct VGF at resale pricing over the past few months. So if they are going to do that with VGF people could see this occurring at a variety of other resorts as well.
> 
> Its pretty straightforward why some might be nervous if they own at a resort that has cash rooms that would be easy to flip in to these resort studios.


Disney is not using resale prices to base their direct sale pricing.  They are simply doing what they have done for the past 20 years and opened a new resort at the same price as the current active resort.  If they build more rooms at Poly for instance they will price them at whatever active sales pricing is.  Same thing if they made some Contemporary rooms into a BLT2.  It gets trickier with the 2042 resorts because I can’t see them converting BC rooms and selling them into the same association with the 2042 expiration date.


----------



## sethschroeder

ChipNdale8887 said:


> Not necessarily. Your forgetting there were incentives on top of the base price of $188 for Riv. We bought RIV and the incentives brought it down to $148 per point. (we bought 300 points with a $12,000 off incentive, we got 150 at RIV and 150 at CCV and $6000 off of 150 points at each back in August 2020)



1) I was talking about the price it was launch at: $188 with incentives for 300 brought it down to $165.50 
2) In August 2020 you would have bought RIV at $155 not at $150/point when you bought 300 points total

I bought in on that promo back in August 2020 as well.


----------



## sethschroeder

davidl81 said:


> Disney is not using resale prices to base their direct sale pricing.



Thats fine did I say they were? Some are nervous on how this will impact the value of their DVC contracts on the resale market. I can see why when VGF is selling at $179 for 300 points.

I was simply pointing out a dramatic price shift on the VGF offering from DVC and why some people will now be nervous or frustrated with the pricing structure. This essentially wiped off $15-$30+ per point on resale VGF overnight.

DVC can do what they want but just calling it how I see it.


----------



## lopo

Anyone know what the US military discount for new points at The Villas at Disney’s Grand Floridian Resort & Spa is?


----------



## Dyefrog

Marionnette said:


> .
> 
> Sales open to non-members on March 31 but the current incentives only last until March 30.
> 
> According to DVCNews.com, incentives will change to the following on March 31.
> *Grand Floridian Add-On Discounts Effective March 31*
> 
> 125-149 points: $5 off per point
> 150-174 points: $6 off
> 175-199 points: $9 off
> 200-249 points: $17 off
> 250-299 points: $18 off
> 300-499 points: $24 off
> 500-999 points: $26 off
> 1000+ points: $28 off


I thought I read upstream that the $207pp base price may also revert back to some higher number after 3/31/22. Have you heard anything on that front or will they keep the base price the same so that all 3 current for sale resorts are the same to simplify things and then just use incentives to spot stimulate?


----------



## sethschroeder

lopo said:


> Anyone know what the US military discount for new points at The Villas at Disney’s Grand Floridian Resort & Spa is?



This post had a link to it.

https://www.disboards.com/threads/the-vgf-2-pricing-thread.3838921/page-143#post-63815058

Direct link:
https://dvcexplorer.com/fin/wm/GrandFloridian_Member_MilitaryDiscount_TravelSet.pdf


----------



## ninafeliz

DKZB said:


> Still waiting on a call back from the guide but I wanted to poll all of you. My VGF UY is December. Since I won't get my points until December 2022, I will only pay 1 month of 2022 dues correct?


Yes.  We have a Dec use year, and my guide was very clear that we would pay prorated dues this calendar year, which would only be December.


----------



## Sandisw

sethschroeder said:


> Eh can talk about what happened all we want. In the end VGF did lose value already and we will see if other resorts are impacted by this as well.
> 
> DVC can do whatever they want though in the end just a new wrinkle for people to be mindful of when buying and thinking about only holding for a "shorter" period of time 5/10/15 years.



Very true for those who do have short term goals.

But given the historic policy of DVD to price new resorts at the same price as other active resorts, this should not have been a big surprise it would happen.


----------



## RamblinWreck

DVChris said:


> My CM confirmed there is a military discount available.
> https://dvcexplorer.com/fin/wm/GrandFloridian_Member_MilitaryDiscount_TravelSet.pdf


Does this stack with other incentives?


----------



## BWV Dreamin

Dyefrog said:


> Can you put the entire contract amount on the Disney Visa?


Yes if you have the credit limit.


----------



## eticketplease

Kaufeegurl said:


> Can anyone confirm how the charge appears on a CC? I need to let my CC company know about a forthcoming big purchase


The card I used was from Chase not sure if that matters..

DVC ESCROW PAYMENT
FL 34747
(800) 800-9800

Description: DVC ESCROW PAYMENT
Also known as: DVC ESCROW PAYMENT
Merchant type: Timeshares
Method: In person
Card number: (...XXXX)
Category: Travel

I did the transaction over the phone but it stated in person


----------



## DVChris

RamblinWreck said:


> Does this stack with other incentives?


I think I misunderstood your question. Yes, you get the extra military incentive on top of the current incentives. My link to the pricing chart shows the all inclusive price for military. Thank you for your service!


----------



## hbg1

Thanks for sharing that it falls into the travel category, you just made my day  
Now to figure out which card makes the most sense to use.

Also wanted to say thanks for all of the valuable information that everyone has been posting today. 
I lurk here a lot but had some great interactions with folks while buying a PVB resale last year (got in at $149) and it’s great to have such a helpful and knowledgeable group here.
Going to sleep on it tonight but thinking I’ll be adding on 200 tomorrow (150/50 per another earlier user)
Already have my blue card with an  AKV add on from 2006 but having that flexibility of the 50 point contract is great.


----------



## sethschroeder

eticketplease said:


> The card I used was from Chase not sure if that matters..
> 
> DVC ESCROW PAYMENT
> FL 34747
> (800) 800-9800
> 
> Description: DVC ESCROW PAYMENT
> Also known as: DVC ESCROW PAYMENT
> Merchant type: Timeshares
> Method: In person
> Card number: (...XXXX)
> Category: Travel
> 
> I did the transaction over the phone but it stated in person



Did you check your rewards you got off of it though?

Its market "travel" but timeshare travel which is the excluded on some cards from bonus incentives regarding travel.


----------



## sethschroeder

hbg1 said:


> Thanks for sharing that it falls into the travel category, you just made my day



You need to verify for your specific card. Additionally you need to verify for your specific card they don't have language to exclude Timeshares from any additional benefits.


----------



## sethschroeder

Okay it seems Chase might have changed to categorically make Timeshares Travel at this point. So I think I was wrong on that.

https://www.chase.com/personal/credit-cards/rewards-category-faq


----------



## hbg1

sethschroeder said:


> You need to verify for your specific card. Additionally you need to verify for your specific card they don't have language to exclude Timeshares from any additional benefits.


Yep just saw your post above, will look into it before tomorrow.
If it will work as 2x, would  be worth getting a chase card with the 60k signup bonus.
Would be incredible if it does.


----------



## eticketplease

sethschroeder said:


> Did you check your rewards you got off of it though?
> 
> Its market "travel" but timeshare travel which is the excluded on some cards from bonus incentives regarding travel.


Yes I used my Chase Reserve and received the full 3 points per dollar.


----------



## eticketplease

Chase is pretty good about redeeming anything for travel.  Which is also sometimes not good like when you pay for parking or renew ez-pass and it eats into you $300 credit


----------



## Deeleebaker

DKZB said:


> Still waiting on a call back from the guide but I wanted to poll all of you. My VGF UY is December. Since I won't get my points until December 2022, I will only pay 1 month of 2022 dues correct?


Yes. That made me go back and start my calculus all over again. Now I'm trying to decide between 60 GF, 60 more at AKL which is my home resort already, or 125 GF.


----------



## eticketplease

Deeleebaker said:


> Yes. That made me go back and start my calculus all over again. Now I'm trying to decide between 60 GF, 60 more at AKL which is my home resort already, or 125 GF.


Not sure if it matters to you but 1 dues are cheaper at VGF and 2 contract is 7 years longer


----------



## Bali2012

sethschroeder said:


> You likely can push them on this to get it extended. I have done payments every 30 days over a 90 day period in the past. This might be different now but you can always ask.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks!


----------



## TinkB278

Deeleebaker said:


> Yes. That made me go back and start my calculus all over again. Now I'm trying to decide between 60 GF, 60 more at AKL which is my home resort already, or 125 GF.


I’ve been considering AKL also. 75 points there would get us a much longer stay than at VGF.


----------



## SpaceMountain77

TinkB278 said:


> No new concept art was released with the pricing was it? Really want to buy but also a bit nervous about how the rooms actually turn out. I was disappointed in the main VGF refurb, the concept art made it look much nicer. Also I’m not trusting their judgment ever since they decided to go with plaid headboards



Due to supply chain issues, much of what was planned for the studios did not come to pass.  The curtains and wall sconces, for example, remain unchanged, which, to me, is disappointing because the plaid carpet, curtains, and headboard were intended to compliment each other.


----------



## nuhusky123

Title insurance question. Has anyone not been able to remove title insurance? My guide is still in the asking can she do it phase


----------



## SpaceMountain77

TCRAIG said:


> just called mine in - ended up getting 125 instead of my planned 118 since the discount gave me 7 extra points for $450.  One thing my guide did say - even with an April UY - I won’t get my points til 2022 and they won’t be usable til VGF2 opens - even on other properties.



Does anyone know which use years did receive 2021 points?


----------



## nuhusky123

SpaceMountain77 said:


> Does anyone know which use years did receive 2021 points?


No years will be getting 2021 points


----------



## TinkB278

SpaceMountain77 said:


> Due to supply chain issues, much of what was planned for the studios did not come to pass.  The curtains and wall sconces, for example, remain unchanged, which, to me, is disappointing because the paid carpet, curtains, and headboard were intended to compliment each other.


The virtual tour shows new curtains and wall sconces though.


----------



## rubybutt

lowlight said:


> It does make sense, and I think you were the one who initially predicted no previous use year points.   I was just holding out hope they would use some from ROFR buybacks or breakage or whatever to give that extra incentive to buy direct.  Because what it looks like to me now is 227 per point (valuing points at 20$ per for rental purposes) plus incentives, which for most people was a solid no, but nobody is batting an eye at it now.


I'm batting an eye.


----------



## SpaceMountain77

sethschroeder said:


> I think this just signals Disney is trying to quickly sell out possibly as they have plans for future hotel flips before other rooms come up to refurbs.



An insider, who regularly posts on another site, stated that this conversion had two aims: (1) reduce the room occupancy at Disney's Grand Floridian Resort and Spa because the rate has been falling, and (2) provide DVC with a much needed booster because of the pandemic and depressed Riviera sales.


----------



## SpaceMountain77

TinkB278 said:


> The virtual tour shows new curtains and wall sconces though.



We experienced a refurbished studio in December 2021 and the curtains were the original floral and ivy, chairs were still upholstered in sage, and the sconces were not the cylindrical flush mounts.


----------



## Marionnette

SpaceMountain77 said:


> Does anyone know which use years did receive 2021 points?


None. No UY will receive 2021 points.


----------



## TinkB278

SpaceMountain77 said:


> We experienced a refurbished studio in December 2021 and the curtains were the original floral and ivy, chairs were still upholstered in sage, and the sconces were not the cylindrical flush mounts.


Oh I see, you are talking about the VGF1 rooms. I was very disappointed in the refurb on those. It looks like no corners were cut on the resort studios though!


----------



## davidl81

SpaceMountain77 said:


> An insider, who regularly posts on another site, stated that this conversion had two aims: (1) reduce the room occupancy at Disney's Grand Floridian Resort and Spa because the rate has been falling, and (2) provide DVC with a much needed booster because of the pandemic and depressed Riviera sales.


That seems very logical to me.


----------



## smmora

TinkB278 said:


> The virtual tour shows new curtains and wall sconces though.



Is there a link to see it?


----------



## TinkB278

smmora said:


> Is there a link to see it?


My guide sent me a link that required a login. I’m not sure it works to share the link. I would ask your guide for a link to the virtual tour!


----------



## lowlight

TinkB278 said:


> My guide sent me a link that required a login. I’m not sure it works to share the link. I would ask your guide for a link to the virtual tour!


You’re only person I’ve seen mention it.  My guide has no idea.  Try sharing the link and we can login ourselves.


----------



## TinkB278

lowlight said:


> You’re only person I’ve seen mention it.  My guide has no idea.  Try sharing the link and we can login ourselves.



Its odd your guide doesn’t know about it.

https://dvcexplorer.com/refAtHome


----------



## BuzzyBelle

lowlight said:


> You’re only person I’ve seen mention it.  My guide has no idea.  Try sharing the link and we can login ourselves.


We received an email with the link after we made our purchase today. Seems to be something they send out after you buy 
Eta: I see @TinkB278 was able to link it above


----------



## lowlight

TinkB278 said:


> Its odd your guide doesn’t know about it.
> 
> https://dvcexplorer.com/refAtHome


Thanks it worked!  He sent me a bunch of stuff from dvc explorer.com, but not the one you sent.


----------



## tidefan

I had never heard of dvcexplorer.com until yesterday!


----------



## HappyThoughtsTees

Anyone else get an email notifying them of an unsolicited credit limit raise on their Chase Disney Visa today??  Awfully convenient timing...only an hour after receiving the DVC VGF2 promo email....


----------



## Grumpy by Birth

HappyThoughtsTees said:


> Anyone else get an email notifying them of an unsolicited credit limit raise on their Chase Disney Visa today??  Awfully convenient timing...only an hour after receiving the DVC VGF2 promo email....


Coincidence?  Or a covert plot for the purpose of luring us into succumbing to the temptation of addonitis?


----------



## Jwaire

TinkB278 said:


> Its odd your guide doesn’t know about it.
> 
> https://dvcexplorer.com/refAtHome



These 3D tours are so neat. They need to offer these Matterport 3D tours for every single DVC accommodation on the booking Web site. I know the board sponsor's rental store has them (thanks to Pete & company).


----------



## Sandisw

TinkB278 said:


> Its odd your guide doesn’t know about it.
> 
> https://dvcexplorer.com/refAtHome



The one thing you can see is the different refrigerator/ cooler between the deluxe studio and the resort studio.

What is interesting is they are referring to it in the resort studio video as a refrigerator.


----------



## mort1331

Sandisw said:


> The one thing you can see is the different refrigerator/ cooler between the deluxe studio and the resort studio.
> 
> What is interesting is they are referring to it in the resort studio video as a refrigerator.


and the keurg,,,not buying because i dont like any keurg,,,should have had nespresso if you want upscale,,,lol,,,,ya thats why I'm not buying.


----------



## mort1331

now I know why all other direct sales are just getting popsockets and not the backpack,,,,all you lucky 125+ are getting luggage....but I can still get to my genie+ easier with a popsocket on my phone,,,not sure how to attach it to my flip? hmm


----------



## Sandisw

mort1331 said:


> and the keurg,,,not buying because i dont like any keurg,,,should have had nespresso if you want upscale,,,lol,,,,ya thats why I'm not buying.



I didn’t notice the Keurig.  I don’t like those either.


----------



## Wedgeout

The luggage is because they just emptied your bank account so now you have something to put your stuff into and hitch hike to the Magic.


----------



## mort1331

Sandisw said:


> I didn’t notice the Keurig.  I don’t like those either.


as per the 3d tour,,thats what it looked like


----------



## TinkB278

Are they done giving out the backpacks already?


----------



## DonMacGregor

Wedgeout said:


> The luggage is because they just emptied your bank account so now you have something to put your stuff into and hitch hike to the Magic.


My Man, if you're going to stay at the "premier, flagship resort", you gotta be a Playa!



Or at least pretend to be...


----------



## SpaceMountain77

TinkB278 said:


> Are they done giving out the backpacks already?



I have wondered how long it will take to distribute the 500 luggage sets to eligible buyers. Two or three days, maybe?


----------



## sethschroeder

Jwaire said:


> These 3D tours are so neat. They need to offer these Matterport 3D tours for every single DVC accommodation on the booking Web site. I know the board sponsor's rental store has them (thanks to Pete & company).



They exist there are matter port tours for every single resort room category.


----------



## DonMacGregor

SpaceMountain77 said:


> I have wondered how long it will take to distribute the 500 luggage sets to eligible buyers. Two or three days, maybe?


It took them 2 months to get me my last sweet sweet DVC backpack so...


----------



## Wedgeout

SpaceMountain77 said:


> I have wondered how long it will take to distribute the 500 luggage sets to eligible buyers. Two or three days, maybe?


Only if they came in with the last shipment of Figment popcorn buckets.


----------



## Littlelulu01

Well the price per point came in right where I was willing to purchase. I’m not going to add on here though.  I have a later month uy and won’t get 2021 points. So for our stay I was planning on this year will need to borrow our 2022 points just to make a reservation.  That starts off the contract in borrow mode and with all the restrictions on borrowing only half and that borrowing is a final transaction, I’m just not willing to pay that kind of money to start off upside down on points.  Too bad- I liked the luggage and was all set up to add on today. I’m sure it’ll be a big money maker for Disney but just a little too much hair on it for me. Pretty bummed.


----------



## Sandisw

SpaceMountain77 said:


> I have wondered how long it will take to distribute the 500 luggage sets to eligible buyers. Two or three days, maybe?



Its first 500 contracts at 125 minimum. That equate to at least 62k points. Nothing has sold that fast so I say they last awhile.


----------



## The Jackal

Sandisw said:


> Its first 500 contracts at 125 minimum. That equate to at least 62k points. Nothing has sold that fast so I say they last awhile.


Yes I agree, in January reports RIV had around 466 or so contracts sold. So 500 over 125 will take some time.


----------



## DisneyMom_3

Sandisw said:


> Its first 500 contracts at 125 minimum. That equate to at least 62k points. Nothing has sold that fast so I say they last awhile.


And, I don’t qualify for the luggage because I broke mine up into 100 point contracts. I wasn’t going to add more points to make them 125 each (and I don’t want to have uneven contracts since I want to have one for each of my kids). Oh well! I didn’t really care that much for the luggage anyway!


----------



## TinkB278

I was tempted to bump up my 80 points to 125 points just for the luggage, then my husband reminded me of how much luggage I could buy with the price difference lol.


----------



## SleeplessInTO

TinkB278 said:


> I was tempted to bump up my 80 points to 125 points just for the luggage, then my husband reminded me of how much luggage I could buy with the price difference lol.


My husband wants to know what I think we can sell the luggage for on eBay.  I kind of want to keep it but I’m sure they’ll be popping up soon!!


----------



## RamblinWreck

DisneyMom_3 said:


> And, I don’t qualify for the luggage because I broke mine up into 100 point contracts. I wasn’t going to add more points to make them 125 each (and I don’t want to have uneven contracts since I want to have one for each of my kids). Oh well! I didn’t really care that much for the luggage anyway!


It’s kind of lame that you don’t qualify just because you split the contracts.

Don’t you still get the other incentives?


----------



## Sandisw

Wanted to add that I did get the permission for 90 days. My final payment is due June 1st, which means not having to pay it off until Dec!


----------



## Cyberc1978

I'm from Europe(not UK) how do I add on direct? Do I call or chat with DVC ? and is it even possible to add on direct if you are not located in the US or the UK?


----------



## SleeplessInTO

Cyberc1978 said:


> I'm from Europe(not UK) how do I add on direct? Do I call or chat with DVC ? and is it even possible to add on direct if you are not located in the US or the UK?


Call your guide or email her/him. (If you don't know who your guide is, I think the website has contact info and someone will reach out to you.) They'll let you know if they're able to sell you points. I'm in Canada and was able to purchase with no issues today.


----------



## Cyberc1978

SleeplessInTO said:


> Call your guide or email her/him. (If you don't know who your guide is, I think the website has contact info and someone will reach out to you.) They'll let you know if they're able to sell you points. I'm in Canada and was able to purchase with no issues today.


thanks I'll give it a try.


----------



## DebbieB

KAT4DISNEY said:


> The correct term is actually current points.
> 
> This I find shocking - no current points for 1/2 of the UY's?  That I think is unprecedented.   Once the entire resort is open then the points exist.   That Feb-June wouldn't get points until the resort opens is understandable.  That the 2nd half of the year would not?  It defies the system.   I'll have to roll this around in my head a bit more but first reaction is that it gives DVD/DVC several months of inventory.



VGC opened in September 2009, the first use year was June 2009.  I have April at BWV and it soured me on it.   Of course, I regret it now when I paid $180 for resale 2 years ago.


----------



## Deeleebaker

eticketplease said:


> Not sure if it matters to you but 1 dues are cheaper at VGF and 2 contract is 7 years longer


Yeah. It’s $1k less now but 400 more a year. More years (I’m already 55 so really not a concern for me so much as my daughter) but not getting 2021 points is more than a little annoying, especially since I messed up with 2020 points. I’m also a little afraid of keeping Track of points I can only use at AKL value/club and points I cant use at Riv. I really like being close to Epcot and HS.

If I got 125 at VGF and then banked to use 250 alternating at VGF and Riviera, I would have my resale to use the other years at any 1br, including value or club. But I think I could still do that, just without home resort advantage, by getting 125 at AKV.

Am I missing something? Will I end up with small amounts of points I can’t use or bank if I have two separate resorts?


----------



## Deeleebaker

SpaceMountain77 said:


> I have wondered how long it will take to distribute the 500 luggage sets to eligible buyers. Two or three days, maybe?


My guide said there were 100 guides  got 5 each. He’s made one sale and had 3 maybes and I was call number 18 for him today.


----------



## Royal Consort

Cyberc1978 said:


> I'm from Europe(not UK) how do I add on direct? Do I call or chat with DVC ? and is it even possible to add on direct if you are not located in the US or the UK?



I dont believe you can add unless you're physically in the USA. DVC needs to be registered to sell within your country (and particular Canadian provinces). We are in Australia and I have to be physically present to add on.

Go into your dashboard and select the add on tool. If you get Rex, you won't be able to add.


----------



## Soap_1984

I added on and got a fedex notification already from dvc; it looked like a return label so perhaps they ship the luggage sooner than expected? I'll never use it, maybe the backpack only.


----------



## Soap_1984

Royal Consort said:


> I dont believe you can add unless you're physically in the USA. DVC needs to be registered to sell within your country (and particular Canadian provinces). We are in Australia and I have to be physically present to add on.
> 
> Go into your dashboard and select the add on tool. If you get Rex, you won't be able to add.


I added on in Canada they have a service for notary online even. Not sure if UK is different but all my docs came through docusign so it is possible while not in US


----------



## Royal Consort

Soap_1984 said:


> I added on in Canada they have a service for notary online even. Not sure if UK is different but all my docs came through docusign so it is possible while not in US



Some Canadian provinces are registered to sell DVC.


----------



## Soap_1984

Yeah I figured that I was responding to someone who said you cannot buy outside the US; the UK must be different I guess?


----------



## Cyberc1978

Royal Consort said:


> I dont believe you can add unless you're physically in the USA. DVC needs to be registered to sell within your country (and particular Canadian provinces). We are in Australia and I have to be physically present to add on.
> 
> Go into your dashboard and select the add on tool. If you get Rex, you won't be able to add.


I get rexed when I try. You should think that DVC could sell to anyone anywhere just like the brokers


----------



## Royal Consort

Cyberc1978 said:


> I get rexed when I try. You should think that DVC could sell to anyone anywhere just like the brokers



Yeh resale can be done anywhere. If I recall we were both buying resale VGF contracts in 2020... 

Guides have chatted to me about many guests taking Disney cruises in Europe to buy onboard and save the flight time. I will be at WDW in May so will decide if I'm going to add on then.


----------



## lowlight

Soap_1984 said:


> I added on and got a fedex notification already from dvc; it looked like a return label so perhaps they ship the luggage sooner than expected? I'll never use it, maybe the backpack only.


There’s no way Disney is sending you anything until the ink is dry and you are past your 10 days.  Most likely not even until your deed is recorded.  I think the luggage small text said 8 weeks to ship and 3-4 weeks from shipment to arrival.


----------



## nuhusky123

lowlight said:


> There’s no way Disney is sending you anything until the ink is dry and you are past your 10 days.  Most likely not even until your deed is recorded.  I think the luggage small text said 8 weeks to ship and 3-4 weeks from shipment to arrival.


The fedex notice is for the paperwork and other stuff Disney sends you.


----------



## Soap_1984

You're right I have not bought direct in a while and haven't done it remote; definitely just documents.


----------



## SleeplessInTO

Soap_1984 said:


> You're right I have not bought direct in a while and haven't done it remote; definitely just documents.


Interesting. I do not have a FedEx notification. Am also in Canada. We are doing DocuSign. I was not expecting anything.


----------



## CarolMN

Anyone know when the dues for 2022 will show up in our accounts?  They don't seem to be included in the initial price.


----------



## Sandisw

CarolMN said:


> Anyone know when the dues for 2022 will show up in our accounts?  They don't seem to be included in the initial price.



This is what I see.


----------



## wnielsen1

CarolMN said:


> Anyone know when the dues for 2022 will show up in our accounts?  They don't seem to be included in the initial price.


They will bill you after the resort opens.


----------



## ninafeliz

Sandisw said:


> Wanted to add that I did get the permission for 90 days. My final payment is due June 1st, which means not having to pay it off until Dec!



Interesting.  My guide definitely said I had to have final payment within 30 days, all money due by April 1st.  I will say I didn’t ask if there was an alternative, it never would have occurred to me since I assumed he was telling me the actual requirement.  I imagine it’s too late now, I’ve signed the papers.  I don’t know that it would really be something we would want anyway, it’s just annoying to find out he didn’t give me an option that was available.  


Deeleebaker said:


> My guide said there were 100 guides  got 5 each. He’s made one sale and had 3 maybes and I was call number 18 for him today.



That doesn’t make sense.  What if one guide sold 15 of the first 500 contracts?  It says first 500 contracts overall, nothing about per guide.


----------



## jacec

Just booked my 2-bedroom Lake View stay Dec 30 2022 - Jan 7 2023 using our newly minted VGF contracts (Dec. UY)-- these are rooms I would NEVER have been able to get at 7 month mark.  So happy to be calling Grand Floridian our new home.

I realized 300 was not enough. I think I made my Guide's day when I called back and added 2 more 200 point contracts for a total buy today of 700.


----------



## smmora

ninafeliz said:


> That doesn’t make sense.  What if one guide sold 15 of the first 500 contracts?  It says first 500 contracts overall, nothing about per guide.


I wonder if they had a contest which guide sold the most today 

Pretty sure it would have had to been more than 5 per guide... I called at 6:30am PST and my guide said I was the 4th West Coast buyer he had call him.


----------



## nuhusky123

jacec said:


> Just booked my 2-bedroom Lake View stay Dec 30 2022 - Jan 7 2023 using our newly minted VGF contracts (Dec. UY)-- these are rooms I would NEVER have been able to get at 7 month mark.  So happy to be calling Grand Floridian our new home.
> 
> I realized 300 was not enough. I think I made my Guide's day when I called back and added 2 more 200 point contracts for a total buy today of 700.


700, damn good for you. That’s quite the total. Just don’t look at the bank account for a few days


----------



## jacec

nuhusky123 said:


> 700, damn good for you. That’s quite the total. Just don’t look at the bank account for a few days



Too make up for the buy, I listed our 300 point SSR contract.  (that's how I tried to justify it in my mind) ...  I'm giving Pete Werner a run for his money on my insanity today


----------



## SleeplessInTO

jacec said:


> Just booked my 2-bedroom Lake View stay Dec 30 2022 - Jan 7 2023 using our newly minted VGF contracts (Dec. UY)-- these are rooms I would NEVER have been able to get at 7 month mark.  So happy to be calling Grand Floridian our new home.
> 
> I realized 300 was not enough. I think I made my Guide's day when I called back and added 2 more 200 point contracts for a total buy today of 700.


So you're the VGF2 bogeyman that was prophesied, coming to steal all those VGF1 owners' 1 and 2 bedroom units. But wow, 700 points! 

I came to the same realization, but instead of buying more points I'm... booking a studio for Jan 6 and 7.


----------



## tidefan

jacec said:


> Just booked my 2-bedroom Lake View stay Dec 30 2022 - Jan 7 2023 using our newly minted VGF contracts (Dec. UY)-- these are rooms I would NEVER have been able to get at 7 month mark.  So happy to be calling Grand Floridian our new home.
> 
> I realized 300 was not enough. I think I made my Guide's day when I called back and added 2 more 200 point contracts for a total buy today of 700.


I didn't think you could book with new points until March 14th, or am I incorrect about that?


----------



## SleeplessInTO

tidefan said:


> I didn't think you could book with new points until March 14th, or am I incorrect about that?


You can't book the resort studios until March 14. But the points are good to use right now.


----------



## jacec

SleeplessInTO said:


> So you're the VGF2 bogeyman that was prophesied, coming to steal all those VGF1 owners' 1 and 2 bedroom units. But wow, 700 points!
> 
> I came to the same realization, but instead of buying more points I'm... booking a studio for Jan 6 and 7.



I'm leaving the new studios for the VGF1 crew to check out.  We're a 2-bedroom fam with 4yr & 8yr kids that LOVE the MK.  This is the absolutely perfect home!


----------



## Duckbug.Ducktales

Sandisw said:


> Didnt get mine yet but this is going to be a new UY so he said it might take a little longer since they are setting it up as a new account..


What have you decide to do a new UY? Are these points destined for something specific?
I want to buy DLT later on and we seem to like to go to DL in Sep but we have Oct UY. Been thinking it's worth setting up a new membership.


----------



## DisneyMom_3

RamblinWreck said:


> It’s kind of lame that you don’t qualify just because you split the contracts.
> 
> Don’t you still get the other incentives?


Well, I didn’t even make a purchase after all! My original contract doesn’t have my husband on it and I want him on the new ones. Apparently, that can’t be done unless one contract is 150 points because it’s considered a new membership!  
So, now I have to have 150 - 100 - 50 or 150 - 75 -75. How do I pick which child gets which?!   I would qualify for the luggage, but I’d rather not have to pick favorites! 
I told my guide that I needed to think about it. 
I’m disappointed that I have a December UY and basically won’t have any points this year until December AND now this! 
He had already taken my credit card information and everything!


----------



## ninafeliz

jacec said:


> Just booked my 2-bedroom Lake View stay Dec 30 2022 - Jan 7 2023 using our newly minted VGF contracts (Dec. UY)-- these are rooms I would NEVER have been able to get at 7 month mark.  So happy to be calling Grand Floridian our new home.
> 
> I realized 300 was not enough. I think I made my Guide's day when I called back and added 2 more 200 point contracts for a total buy today of 700.


Holy cow!  We now have enough for 8 nights in a 2BR at Riviera every 2 years and 8 nights in a 2 BR at the VGF every 2 years, and I thought we were doing pretty well lol!  My DH wasn’t thrilled with an additional 300 points but agreed because we will spend it at Disney anyway, no way could I have convinced him to buy 700 (actually I wouldn’t have wanted to spend that much today either, to be fair!).


----------



## SleeplessInTO

DisneyMom_3 said:


> Well, I didn’t even make a purchase after all! My original contract doesn’t have my husband on it and I want him on the new ones. Apparently, that can’t be done unless one contract is 150 points because it’s considered a new membership!
> So, now I have to have 150 - 100 - 50 or 150 - 75 -75. How do I pick which child gets which?!   I would qualify for the luggage, but I’d rather not have to pick favorites!
> I told my guide that I needed to think about it.
> I’m disappointed that I have a December UY and basically won’t have any points this year until December AND now this!
> He had already taken my credit card information and everything!


If you're getting a new membership, you can choose a different UY. Its not much of a consolation.

How about 150, 50, 50, 50? Each kid gets 50?


----------



## DonMacGregor

smmora said:


> I wonder if they had a contest which guide sold the most today



 “We’re adding a little something to this month’s sales contest. As you all know, first prize is a Cadillac Eldorado. Anybody wanna see second prize? Second prize is a set of steak knives. Third prize is, you’re fired.”


----------



## Nabas

For what it's worth, on one well-known DVC resale website, six 50-point VGF contracts dropped by an average of $35 per point today.  A 130-point VGF contract dropped by $28 per point.

Beyond these, I did not see movement in VGF contracts, but I was only following contracts of 160 points and below.


----------



## DisneyMom_3

SleeplessInTO said:


> If you're getting a new membership, you can choose a different UY. Its not much of a consolation.
> 
> How about 150, 50, 50, 50? Each kid gets 50?


I hadn’t thought of that!  
It will increase the closing cost a little having 4 contracts, but at least I’m not picking favorites! Of course, what do I do with the 150?


----------



## SleeplessInTO

jacec said:


> I'm leaving the new studios for the VGF1 crew to check out.  We're a 2-bedroom fam with 4yr & 8yr kids that LOVE the MK.  This is the absolutely perfect home!


Makes perfect sense! DD6 loves the concept art for the resort studios, so I'll be on the phone on March 14 with MS, trying to book a stay. Looking forward to it for both of us!!!!


----------



## SleeplessInTO

DisneyMom_3 said:


> I hadn’t thought of that!
> It will increase the closing cost a little having 4 contracts, but at least I’m not picking favorites! Of course, what do I do with the 150?


First one to give you a grandkid gets the 150? 
Kidding, kidding!


----------



## SleeplessInTO

DisneyMom_3 said:


> I hadn’t thought of that!
> It will increase the closing cost a little having 4 contracts, but at least I’m not picking favorites! Of course, what do I do with the 150?


A more serious suggestion - you could always sell the 150 point contract, and split the proceeds 3 ways, so that when you leave the 50 point contracts to each kid you also give them something to help cover the future dues.


----------



## jacec

ninafeliz said:


> Holy cow!  We now have enough for 8 nights in a 2BR at Riviera every 2 years and 8 nights in a 2 BR at the VGF every 2 years, and I thought we were doing pretty well lol!  My DH wasn’t thrilled with an additional 300 points but agreed because we will spend it at Disney anyway, no way could I have convinced him to buy 700 (actually I wouldn’t have wanted to spend that much today either, to be fair!).



We do 3 trips a year,  7 nights over Spring Break in any 2-bedroom ... use our SAP.  7-9 nights after Christmas where VGF will be our new tradition for home,  and 8 nights at Aulani just before school starts.  Sometimes have a enough to do Presidents Day weekend or some other "need to get away" trip.


----------



## ninafeliz

DisneyMom_3 said:


> Well, I didn’t even make a purchase after all! My original contract doesn’t have my husband on it and I want him on the new ones. Apparently, that can’t be done unless one contract is 150 points because it’s considered a new membership!
> So, now I have to have 150 - 100 - 50 or 150 - 75 -75. How do I pick which child gets which?!   I would qualify for the luggage, but I’d rather not have to pick favorites!
> I told my guide that I needed to think about it.
> I’m disappointed that I have a December UY and basically won’t have any points this year until December AND now this!
> He had already taken my credit card information and everything!


You know; just as food for thought, we have 4 kids and aren’t really worrying too awful much about them as we do this.  They are young, and who knows what will happen over the years and decades.  Chances are not all of them will want to have to pay yearly fees on a  contract- they are not inconsequential.  It’s possible that some might choose paths or careers where they wouldn’t be able to afford that easily, or wouldn’t have the time to travel regularly.  Some might not like Disney that much as they get older (gasp!), some might marry and have a spouse who isn’t interested in Disney or even hates the idea (again, gasp, but it could happen).  So we are buying what works for us (but obviously not completely ignoring them lol).  I was initially thinking like you were, and it was my husband who didn’t think we should worry about it, and I now agree with him.  We have 4 kids and now 3 contracts- 250 at Riviera, 150 at GF and 150 at GF. But we split the GF not because we wanted to give them to 2 kids but because if as they get older we find we don’t take all 4 and could downsize from having to have 2 BRs we would have the option of selling off 150.  I personally don’t want to and don’t plan on it, but it gives us the option.


----------



## Helvetica

I talked to my guide today. I’m really tempted to buy a small add-on contract of 50 points. I already have 200 points at Riviera and the additional 50 points would help out.

I’ve been doing two trips a year at a studio, but now I’m thinking about doing one trip a year at a one bedroom.

I just need to hear from the girlfriend to see what she thinks.


----------



## ninafeliz

SleeplessInTO said:


> So you're the VGF2 bogeyman that was prophesied, coming to steal all those VGF1 owners' 1 and 2 bedroom units. But wow, 700 points!
> 
> I came to the same realization, but instead of buying more points I'm... booking a studio for Jan 6 and 7.


That’s going to be us too!  We have 4 kids, so we can only do 2BRs.  We already own at RR so I wanted a MK resort (I love the MK area).  Poly is out b/c only studios (that matter to us lol), and I was hesitant about BLT because I love the views from the CR  and really loved that you could walk to the Mk but am just not a huge CR fan.  When they added the GF walkway I was definitely interested but didn’t want resale.  When they announced new GF points I figured it was a sign from somewhere that it was meant to be lol.  So here we are, but we can only use the original building unless we leave at least one person behind!


----------



## kandlsutton

SleeplessInTO said:


> How about 150, 50, 50, 50? Each kid gets 50?


50 points doesn't go far at VGF.  I have a 55pt resale contract and so far have resisted the urge to call my guide.


----------



## tidefan

jacec said:


> I'm leaving the new studios for the VGF1 crew to check out.  We're a 2-bedroom fam with 4yr & 8yr kids that LOVE the MK.  This is the absolutely perfect home!


So (and, BTW, nothing against you by this), this is EXACTLY, I believe what most of us VGF1 owners were afraid of.  I had never considered selling points off before, but this is really pushing me towards it (once resale comes back up, that is, until then, I can rent them if I have to, I suppose).


----------



## ninafeliz

jacec said:


> We do 3 trips a year,  7 nights over Spring Break in any 2-bedroom ... use our SAP.  7-9 nights after Christmas where VGF will be our new tradition for home,  and 8 nights at Aulani just before school starts.  Sometimes have a enough to do Presidents Day weekend or some other "need to get away" trip.


Wow.  I’m kind of jealous, but also don’t think I would want to pack, plan, travel, and be away from home with all 4 kids quite that much, and only Disney related!  As much as we usually go to Disney, we do have some other traditions that I don’t want to give up and as the kids get older we want to add a few more.  Not to mention the pain every January lol.  But good for you!


----------



## tidefan

jacec said:


> We do 3 trips a year,  7 nights over Spring Break in any 2-bedroom ... use our SAP.  7-9 nights after Christmas where VGF will be our new tradition for home,  and 8 nights at Aulani just before school starts.  Sometimes have a enough to do Presidents Day weekend or some other "need to get away" trip.


You need those APs to come back!!!


----------



## SleeplessInTO

ninafeliz said:


> That’s going to be us too!  We have 4 kids, so we can only do 2BRs.  We already own at RR so I wanted a MK resort (I love the MK area).  Poly is out b/c only studios (that matter to us lol), and I was hesitant about BLT because I love the views from the CR  and really loved that you could walk to the Mk but am just not a huge CR fan.  When they added the GF walkway I was definitely interested but didn’t want resale.  When they announced new GF points I figured it was a sign from somewhere that it was meant to be lol.  So here we are, but we can only use the original building unless we leave at least one person behind!


Agree with all of this! We have BWV, and wanted to add on at an MK resort. BLT is great, especially with the last round of incentives, but it felt too... efficient... for me. I needed something whimsical. Like a penguin fountain. All the stars aligned for this VGF2 purchase, including a timely offer from my credit card company to increase my credit limit to the exact amount I needed. Thank you universe!

I plan to book our first trip on these points to the resort studios, but mainly because my 6 year old has decided that these rooms are "fit for a princess" and wants to stay there for her birthday. We used to do 1 bedrooms, but she currently wants to sleep in the same room with us while we're on vacation. Will see how long our studio phase lasts.


----------



## SleeplessInTO

kandlsutton said:


> 50 points doesn't go far at VGF.  I have a 55pt resale contract and so far have resisted the urge to call my guide.


Totally agree with this. I'm finding even 200 points don't go far at VGF... ! Was just trying to make the math work


----------



## DisneyMom_3

kandlsutton said:


> 50 points doesn't go far at VGF.  I have a 55pt resale contract and so far have resisted the urge to call my guide.


That’s my concern! I know 100 isn’t a lot either, but hopefully they could get a few nights or go every couple of years. I’ll only be in my 80’s when the contract expires so who knows, maybe I’ll keep them all!  
I know that it’s 40 years and who knows what could happen in that time, but frustrating to buy knowing that giving them each an equal contract isn’t an option. 
I know there are lots of options. It’s just frustrating that they priced everything out and we were ready to go but it wouldn’t take the payment. Then to come back and say oh that won’t work. Do you want equal contracts for your kids or your husband on there? You can’t have both!
My guide is off the next two days, so I guess I’ll have a couple of days to think about it.


----------



## Paul Stupin

BWV Dreamin said:


> Yes if you have the credit limit.


You don't have to pay the full amount in one installment.


----------



## jacec

tidefan said:


> You need those APs to come back!!!


Very much so.  Anyone have some magic to make that happen ?


----------



## CarolMN

ninafeliz said:


> Interesting.  My guide definitely said I had to have final payment within 30 days, all money due by April 1st.  I will say I didn’t ask if there was an alternative, it never would have occurred to me since I assumed he was telling me the actual requirement.  I imagine it’s too late now, I’ve signed the papers.  I don’t know that it would really be something we would want anyway, it’s just annoying to find out he didn’t give me an option that was available.



My guide was perfectly willing to spread my cost out over several payments.  There wasn't any push to have them all made by April 1.  But then he also said dues would be prorated from resort open (not use year if later), so I suspect not all guides absorbed all the info equally.  

Anyway, I have the cash & will pay by 4/1.  Just want to use a credit card for the rewards and not exceed credit limit.


----------



## stwaldman

CarolMN said:


> My guide was perfectly willing to spread my cost out over several payments.  There wasn't any push to have them all made by April 1.  But then he also said dues would be prorated from resort open (not use year if later), so I suspect not all guides absorbed all the info equally.
> 
> Anyway, I have the cash & will pay by 4/1.  Just want to use a credit card for the rewards and not exceed credit limit.


yeah, i told my guide i "was still working on getting the funding together" and he basically volunteered a stretched out plan because he knew i was using the disney cc and was going to backload a chunk for the 6 months.


----------



## Paul Stupin

ninafeliz said:


> Interesting.  My guide definitely said I had to have final payment within 30 days, all money due by April 1st.  I will say I didn’t ask if there was an alternative, it never would have occurred to me since I assumed he was telling me the actual requirement.  I imagine it’s too late now, I’ve signed the papers.  I don’t know that it would really be something we would want anyway, it’s just annoying to find out he didn’t give me an option that was available.
> 
> 
> That doesn’t make sense.  What if one guide sold 15 of the first 500 contracts?  It says first 500 contracts overall, nothing about per guide.


They can extend the payment schedule beyond thirty days but they have to go to their supervisor for approval.


----------



## Paul Stupin

All points bought and loaded! Of course as an existing owner, mostly resale but even some direct last year at $255, I’m still happy to take advantage of that $179 price. And at least I didn’t buy any points during the recent VGF bubble.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

tidefan said:


> So (and, BTW, nothing against you by this), this is EXACTLY, I believe what most of us VGF1 owners were afraid of.  I had never considered selling points off before, but this is really pushing me towards it (once resale comes back up, that is, until then, I can rent them if I have to, I suppose).


Exactly what I was going to say. So much for all these new purchases wanting to stay in the resort studios.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

Paul Stupin said:


> You don't have to pay the full amount in one installment.


No but you have to have the available credit.


----------



## stwaldman

BWV Dreamin said:


> Exactly what I was going to say. So much for all these new purchases wanting to stay in the resort studios.


for what its worth, i'm still on team 2 studios, especially if adjoining,  suits me about as well as a 2BR (when i need the space), but admittedly that won't be the case for all.


----------



## ninafeliz

CarolMN said:


> My guide was perfectly willing to spread my cost out over several payments.  There wasn't any push to have them all made by April 1.  But then he also said dues would be prorated from resort open (not use year if later), so I suspect not all guides absorbed all the info equally.
> 
> Anyway, I have the cash & will pay by 4/1.  Just want to use a credit card for the rewards and not exceed credit limit.


That’s our plan, and why I don’t think I care about the extra time.  But had we needed it I would be annoyed to have not been given the option.   We are going to split it into 4 cc payments, one a week, and pay it off in between instead of maxing out my limit- it’s already bad enough for the credit score, using the max even for a short period would surely be worse lol.  I actually think the entire amount is still a bit over my limit without asking them to raise it or shift it between chase cards anyway.  The splitting worked last time, and should work well again.


----------



## Disneycouple99

So, is it worth the time and effort to sell my 230 BLT points (4x50 and 1x30) to rebuy 230 GFV2?  My math is showing it to be close to a wash, roughly 2,000 more.  My wife has never been a huge fan of BLT but I have always loved the proximity of the walk, but now with the walkway to GF I just unsure.  Thoughts or am I just off on what I could get for my BLT contracts now.


----------



## ninafeliz

stwaldman said:


> for what its worth, i'm still on team 2 studios, especially if adjoining,  suits me about as well as a 2BR (when i need the space), but admittedly that won't be the case for all.


I don’t have any interest in 2 studios instead of a 2BR unless it was all I could get or if the points were a ton lower and that was my incentive.  As much as I always say we can stay in small rooms without an issue, if we have 6 people and Disney won’t let us squeeze into one room I want the living space, kitchen, and W/D rather than just 2 rooms.  I always said I didn’t care about having a W/D on vacation until we had one and I was amazed at how many times I just threw a few things in for one reason or another.


----------



## Wedgeout

Disneycouple99 said:


> So, is it worth the time and effort to sell my 230 BLT points (4x50 and 1x30) to rebuy 230 GFV2?  My math is showing it to be close to a wash, roughly 2,000 more.  My wife has never been a huge fan of BLT but I have always loved the proximity of the walk, but now with the walkway to GF I just unsure.  Thoughts or am I just off on what I could get for my BLT contracts now.


Doesn’t seem worth that to me. Unless you had funds and planned to buy the 230 now and then start the sell offs. I think you are still better off keeping your BLT contracts. Plus not yet knowing how these new resort studio points will affect future bookings and availability. There is the walkway over there now but it’s longer then the one you have now.


----------



## RamblinWreck

I generally just kind of goof off around here, but I would like to make one small commentary about this thread.

When I first opened the thread, I immediately voted that the points would be much more expensive than Riviera. It was an uneducated guess.

I then read the first 10 or so pages (I was late to join in the fun I guess!) and saw a lot of really well reasoned, evidenced based guesses that all suggested VGF would start sales at a price nearly identical to RIV. These people all tended to be respectful of everyone else’s opinions.

While I don’t recall seeing anyone outright insulting anyone. What I saw from the side of people who thought it would come in much higher was actually no supporting arguments or evidence at all. But they would frequently refer to anything within the realm of RIV pricing as “crazy”, “a fantasy”, etc

These are direct quotes but I have no desire to name names here.

Compared to other online forums, this place is a lot more cordial than most corners of the internet. But it might behoove all of us to remember that everyone else here is also a human being, and it doesn’t do any of us any good to belittle someone else’s opinion.

I was convinced in those first 10 pages that my gut reaction was wrong. Partly because the evidence was very convincing. And partly because when one side of an argument sticks to facts while another one just tries to act confident, you can almost be sure that the confidence without evidence side is wrong.

And this really isn’t to single anyone out. It’s a natural human tendency. If you believe (or want to believe) something is true, and the evidence says otherwise, you (and I) will be tempted to be dismissive of well reasoned arguments to the contrary.

Everyone will be better off if we can all remain cognizant of that and spot it in ourselves when it happens.

That’s all I got


----------



## SusieQ93

eticketplease said:


> The card I used was from Chase not sure if that matters..
> 
> DVC ESCROW PAYMENT
> FL 34747
> (800) 800-9800
> 
> Description: DVC ESCROW PAYMENT
> Also known as: DVC ESCROW PAYMENT
> Merchant type: Timeshares
> Method: In person
> Card number: (...XXXX)
> Category: Travel
> 
> I did the transaction over the phone but it stated in person


This is super helpful, thanks! Half of our purchase will go on my card and half on my husband’s. He gets 3% back on travel purchases and we were wondering if it would be coded as travel.


----------



## Duckbug.Ducktales

Wedgeout said:


> Doesn’t seem worth that to me. Unless you had funds and planned to buy the 230 now and then start the sell offs. I think you are still better off keeping your BLT contracts. Plus not yet knowing how these new resort studio points will affect future bookings and availability. There is the walkway over there now but it’s longer then the one you have now.


Do you go first 2 weeks of Dec? If not, maybe you could stay at VGF some of the nights and do split stays using your BLT pts.


----------



## tidefan

Disneycouple99 said:


> So, is it worth the time and effort to sell my 230 BLT points (4x50 and 1x30) to rebuy 230 GFV2?  My math is showing it to be close to a wash, roughly 2,000 more.  My wife has never been a huge fan of BLT but I have always loved the proximity of the walk, but now with the walkway to GF I just unsure.  Thoughts or am I just off on what I could get for my BLT contracts now.


I wish we could do an even-ish trade for our 100 VGF1 points for 100 or so of your BLT points!


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

DebbieB said:


> VGC opened in September 2009, the first use year was June 2009.  I have April at BWV and it soured me on it.   Of course, I regret it now when I paid $180 for resale 2 years ago.



Yes, I was in the same position with VGC.  I really wanted it in my April UY but got contracts for my Oct UY because of that (which did get the points unlike what they are doing with VGF).  But did decide to stick with my original decision and got the April.  As I recall VGC was originally estimated to open a bit later in the year.  I had written that off to some CA timeshare rule especially since I believe the next WDW resort sold all UY's with current points.


----------



## DisneyMom_3

KAT4DISNEY said:


> Yes, I was in the same position with VGC.  I really wanted it in my April UY but got contracts for my Oct UY because of that (which did get the points unlike what they are doing with VGF).  But did decide to stick with my original decision and got the April.


I really don’t understand the reasoning for not giving 2021 points to anyone still in their 2021 UY. If they are available to book in June, then why wouldn’t at least August and later get them? The studios would be available to book in their 2021 UY.
(They will let you borrow 50% and book at VGF1 before then.)


----------



## DebbieB

KAT4DISNEY said:


> Yes, I was in the same position with VGC.  I really wanted it in my April UY but got contracts for my Oct UY because of that (which did get the points unlike what they are doing with VGF).  But did decide to stick with my original decision and got the April.  As I recall VGC was originally estimated to open a bit later in the year.  I had written that off to some CA timeshare rule especially since I believe the next WDW resort sold all UY's with current points.



so you would have got October 2008 points?


----------



## Skicks35

I know it hasn't even been a full day just yet, but has the general consensus been that everyone who purchased has received their points in their account within 24 hours?  Trying to decide how much time I have to decide in order to be able to use them on 3/14.


----------



## eticketplease

Wedgeout said:


> Doesn’t seem worth that to me. Unless you had funds and planned to buy the 230 now and then start the sell offs. I think you are still better off keeping your BLT contracts. Plus not yet knowing how these new resort studio points will affect future bookings and availability. There is the walkway over there now but it’s longer then the one you have now.


I totally agree especially if you value the larger accommodations as none were added to VGF.  If you are a studio only family I might roll the dice but our family demands to be separated at night by at least 1 door if not 2! We do laundry daily as well so that is why we would not do the swap as it will be much easier to book the 1 and 2 bedroom units at BLT.


----------



## Duckbug.Ducktales

Skicks35 said:


> I know it hasn't even been a full day just yet, but has the general consensus been that everyone who purchased has received their points in their account within 24 hours?  Trying to decide how much time I have to decide in order to be able to use them on 3/14.


It's usually the case that you get your points within a day or two loaded and ready with direct purchases. One of the remaining perks.


----------



## Paul Stupin

KAT4DISNEY said:


> Yes, I was in the same position with VGC.  I really wanted it in my April UY but got contracts for my Oct UY because of that (which did get the points unlike what they are doing with VGF).  But did decide to stick with my original decision and got the April.  As I recall VGC was originally estimated to open a bit later in the year.  I had written that off to some CA timeshare rule especially since I believe the next WDW resort sold all UY's with current points.


Just a brief congratulations, and thank you, for being so dead on right regarding the VGF2 pricing from the moment it was announced. Having just bought some points for $255, I was initially disbelieving but your arguments convinced me pretty quickly. You clearly know what you’re talking about!


----------



## Sandisw

ninafeliz said:


> Interesting.  My guide definitely said I had to have final payment within 30 days, all money due by April 1st.  I will say I didn’t ask if there was an alternative, it never would have occurred to me since I assumed he was telling me the actual requirement.  I imagine it’s too late now, I’ve signed the papers.  I don’t know that it would really be something we would want anyway, it’s just annoying to find out he didn’t give me an option that was available.
> 
> 
> That doesn’t make sense.  What if one guide sold 15 of the first 500 contracts?  It says first 500 contracts overall, nothing about per guide.



It isn’t something that is ever offered. Even my guide went through the due in 30 days which is when I asked if he could get permission for the 90 days.

He said he would check and then said it was allowed.


----------



## Sandisw

Duckbug.Ducktales said:


> What have you decide to do a new UY? Are these points destined for something specific?
> I want to buy DLT later on and we seem to like to go to DL in Sep but we have Oct UY. Been thinking it's worth setting up a new membership.



Once I found out we were not getting 2021 points, I decided to change things up and realized it might not be bad to have the VGF points for use in the fall.. Dec UY would have not been good for that.

My Aug UY is owned with my 3 adult children and these were just going to be me and my husband.

I will be using those exclusively for VGF and since I book split stays almost every trip, not an issue!

It worked out too. I was able to use them to replace my one July night, book a friend a July, free up some Dec points from RIV that could be banked, and got my Dec nights booked in a 2 bedroom!!!


----------



## Sandisw

Disneycouple99 said:


> So, is it worth the time and effort to sell my 230 BLT points (4x50 and 1x30) to rebuy 230 GFV2?  My math is showing it to be close to a wash, roughly 2,000 more.  My wife has never been a huge fan of BLT but I have always loved the proximity of the walk, but now with the walkway to GF I just unsure.  Thoughts or am I just off on what I could get for my BLT contracts now.



This would be me and I have done it. I sold BWV to buy RIV.

To be honest, I almost added more with the thought of selling off some SSR.

But, in the end, my SSR are usable everywhere and since I stay in 1 bedrooms a lot, they have worked well for sleep around points.

Who knows, the month is long and I could change my mind before it’s over!!


----------



## TCRAIG

Skicks35 said:


> I know it hasn't even been a full day just yet, but has the general consensus been that everyone who purchased has received their points in their account within 24 hours?  Trying to decide how much time I have to decide in order to be able to use them on 3/14.


Made my purchase at @9:20 am eastern - when I checked around noon - points were already loaded in my April 2022 UY


----------



## DVCSunDevil

Just curious if anyone on here bought VGF direct at $255/point before DVC stopped selling them. I was a little shocked to see the lower pricing for VGF2, and with incentives the price gets much lower. I would be pretty mad if I bought 200 VGF points at $255 just before sales on VGF were paused, because now those 200 direct points would be $186. That is almost $70/point! On a 200 point contract that would be a difference of $14,000!! I don't know how many people would be affected by this, so I am curios if anyone on here fell into that category.


----------



## stwaldman

DVCSunDevil said:


> Just curios if anyone on here bought VGF direct at $255/point before DVC stopped selling them. I was a little shocked to see the lower pricing for VGF2, and with incentives the price gets much lower. I would be pretty mad if I bought 200 VGF points at $255 just before sales on VGF were paused, because now those 200 direct points would be $186. That is almost $70/point! On a 200 point contract that would be a difference of $14,000!! I don't know how many people would be affected by this, so I am curios if anyone on here fell into that category.


Not entirely an offset, but if you bought 200 points at this price the last time it was available for direct sale (spring last year), you would have likely had 2020 and 2021 points on that contract. I know it could feel bad if you didn't need those points in hindsight, but there's a lot of value in those 400 points!


----------



## princesscinderella

Duckbug.Ducktales said:


> What have you decide to do a new UY? Are these points destined for something specific?
> I want to buy DLT later on and we seem to like to go to DL in Sep but we have Oct UY. Been thinking it's worth setting up a new membership.


. 
We own at VGC a small contract and with banking and borrowing we used them exclusively for stays there so if that’s your preferred travel time I think it’s worth it to set up a new UY if you plan to use them only there.  If you want to combine them to use at WDW with what you own currently it might get annoying that they are stuck in their own contract UY.


----------



## TinkB278

Has anyone with a late UY heard from their guide heard if they will allow us to borrow 50% to use for booking a June 2022 trip this year? I’m October UY but would love to add a couple nights on to our June stay this year! Not sure if that’s possible or not.


----------



## stwaldman

TinkB278 said:


> Has anyone with a late UY heard from their guide heard if they will allow us to borrow 50% to use for booking a June 2022 trip this year? I’m October UY but would love to add a couple nights on to our June stay this year! Not sure if that’s possible or not.


My guide said that. I'm dec uy and he was very upfront that my only points until December will be borrowed points.


----------



## Kaufeegurl

Skicks35 said:


> I know it hasn't even been a full day just yet, but has the general consensus been that everyone who purchased has received their points in their account within 24 hours?  Trying to decide how much time I have to decide in order to be able to use them on 3/14.


Ours were loaded same day.  Purchased yesterday morning, in our account by late afternoon as soon as the first person signed the docusign paperwork.


----------



## Kaufeegurl

Sandisw said:


> To be honest, I almost added more with the thought of selling off some SSR.
> 
> But, in the end, my SSR are usable everywhere and since I stay in 1 bedrooms a lot, they have worked well for sleep around points.


This exactly. We initially were set on selling our SSR after purchasing VGF2. But we use them a lot as sleep around points and would hate to use our more valuable BCV and now VGF2 elsewhere.


----------



## The Jackal

ninafeliz said:


> Interesting.  My guide definitely said I had to have final payment within 30 days, all money due by April 1st.  I will say I didn’t ask if there was an alternative, it never would have occurred to me since I assumed he was telling me the actual requirement.  I imagine it’s too late now, I’ve signed the papers.  I don’t know that it would really be something we would want anyway, it’s just annoying to find out he didn’t give me an option that was available.
> 
> 
> That doesn’t make sense.  What if one guide sold 15 of the first 500 contracts?  It says first 500 contracts overall, nothing about per guide.


It says first 500 contracts with minimum 125 points. But who can keep track of this number?  Just DVC. It seems that the cost is built into the contract, so they could continue to give it on all contracts that meet the minimum.


----------



## lowlight

There was small print saying the offer could be shortened or extended etc., which leads me to believe it will be more than 500.


----------



## Bali2012

Cyberc1978 said:


> I'm from Europe(not UK) how do I add on direct? Do I call or chat with DVC ? and is it even possible to add on direct if you are not located in the US or the UK?


Hi  from UK.
Easy to arrange from uk so I aomagine rest of Europe the same. Call or use DVC chat and ask to be out in contact with a guide.
There is no Disney finance loan available to Europe, or not UK at least, but wire transfer or credit card is doable.
Contract is sent via docusign so no problem there either. The website does not work for the add on tool thought so it does all need to be done via phone / email with the guide.
The contracts can be translated into another language but takes more time to come thought.


----------



## Sandisw

TinkB278 said:


> Has anyone with a late UY heard from their guide heard if they will allow us to borrow 50% to use for booking a June 2022 trip this year? I’m October UY but would love to add a couple nights on to our June stay this year! Not sure if that’s possible or not.



They will allow you to borrow up to 50% for trips prior to your UY starting.

I understand and I don’t about the move to not give current points to anyone but to those with Aug to Dec UY?  It seems like they should have been.

In hindsight, I am happy with my new UY, but I would have more than likely rented out some of the 2021 had I gotten them.


----------



## Sandisw

Kaufeegurl said:


> This exactly. We initially were set on selling our SSR after purchasing VGF2. But we use them a lot as sleep around points and would hate to use our more valuable BCV and now VGF2 elsewhere.



I figured it out last night and to be honest, I’d be selling 200 just to get back around 125?

So, for now, I won’t jump to change it but I am emailing my guide to ask what would happen if I decided to sell this and add on another 150 for my Dec UY along with the 150 I got in June UY.  If I qualify for the 300 point incentive it might tip the scales.


----------



## davidl81

Disneycouple99 said:


> So, is it worth the time and effort to sell my 230 BLT points (4x50 and 1x30) to rebuy 230 GFV2?  My math is showing it to be close to a wash, roughly 2,000 more.  My wife has never been a huge fan of BLT but I have always loved the proximity of the walk, but now with the walkway to GF I just unsure.  Thoughts or am I just off on what I could get for my BLT contracts now.


My gut is your actual difference in cost will be more than just $2,000.  Let's say you average $175 for BLT (granted you may get more because of those small contracts) and the buyer pays all closing cost etc, you will net $36,225 after paying commission.  VGF2 will cost you $42,780+closing cost for the 230 points.  So call the VGF2 purchase $43,500 after closing.  That is a $6500 difference.  Still really close and of course  if you get say 190 a point for your BLT points then the math gets closer to your 2k delta.  I like BLT but at that close of a price difference I personally would get the VGF points (assuming you are okay floating that extra 40k for a few months while your BLT points sell).  I just think once VGF sells out those points will have more value than the BLT point do.


----------



## Disneycouple99

davidl81 said:


> My gut is your actual difference in cost will be more than just $2,000.  Let's say you average $175 for BLT (granted you may get more because of those small contracts) and the buyer pays all closing cost etc, you will net $36,225 after paying commission.  VGF2 will cost you $42,780+closing cost for the 230 points.  So call the VGF2 purchase $43,500 after closing.  That is a $6500 difference.  Still really close and of course  if you get say 190 a point for your BLT points then the math gets closer to your 2k delta.  I like BLT but at that close of a price difference I personally would get the VGF points (assuming you are okay floating that extra 40k for a few months while your BLT points sell).  I just think once VGF sells out those points will have more value than the BLT point do.


I really hoping to get close to 195 each, two of the contracts has 2021 points.  Additional, 4 more years on the contract. All direct points vs some resale after the restriction was put in place.  We are a 1- and 2-bedrooms kind of a family but do like studios for me and the wife around runDisney weekends.  I'm leaning towards doing it.  Thanks for your thoughts.


----------



## MISCdisney21

I’m officially in for 150 points!!! Super excited. Now get my blue card too. Bought 150 poly points resale last year for first contract


----------



## TinkB278

Sandisw said:


> They will allow you to borrow up to 50% for trips prior to your UY starting.
> 
> I understand and I don’t about the move to not give current points to anyone but to those with Aug to Dec UY?  It seems like they should have been.
> 
> In hindsight, I am happy with my new UY, but I would have more than likely rented out some of the 2021 had I gotten them.


I didn’t think anyone was getting 2021 points? Did that change?


----------



## ninafeliz

TinkB278 said:


> I didn’t think anyone was getting 2021 points? Did that change?


No one is getting 2021 points.  I think the poster was discussing borrowing 2022, that people with UYs after the new building opened should have gotten 2021 points (with a Dec UY I agree with that lol!), and that had she gotten 2021 points she would have rented some out instead of using them.


----------



## krysib

Skicks35 said:


> I know it hasn't even been a full day just yet, but has the general consensus been that everyone who purchased has received their points in their account within 24 hours?  Trying to decide how much time I have to decide in order to be able to use them on 3/14.



I called in yesterday lunch time and have not yet received any paperwork. When I asked this morning on status I was told there was a backlog of 250 contracts from yesterday that they will be working through today. 

Hoping to get it today!


----------



## Kaufeegurl

Sandisw said:


> I understand and I don’t about the move to not give current points to anyone but to those with Aug to Dec UY?  It seems like they should have been.


Wait, what? We purchased August UY and are not getting current points. I was told that everyone will be getting 2022 points, no one is getting current points.


----------



## Sandisw

Kaufeegurl said:


> Wait, what? We purchased August UY and are not getting current points. I was told that everyone will be getting 2022 points, no one is getting current points.



Yes, you will get 2022 points.  But, right now, August is in its 2021 UY so current points should be 2021...but they are not giving them because the resort is not yet open.


----------



## Paul Stupin

DVCSunDevil said:


> Just curios if anyone on here bought VGF direct at $255/point before DVC stopped selling them. I was a little shocked to see the lower pricing for VGF2, and with incentives the price gets much lower. I would be pretty mad if I bought 200 VGF points at $255 just before sales on VGF were paused, because now those 200 direct points would be $186. That is almost $70/point! On a 200 point contract that would be a difference of $14,000!! I don't know how many people would be affected by this, so I am curios if anyone on here fell into that category.


I bought some $255 points the months before sales were paused because at the time supply was limited and there were no March UY resale contracts available. You’re right, at first I was really annoyed, but I did want to add on, and with limited availability I was ultimately glad to pick up more at a lower price. 

There’s also another way of looking at it. Had I decided to sell one of the $255 contracts shortly after purchasing, I would have probably sold it for around $180-190. That‘s about a $70 pp loss anyway. So I bought well aware that the points’ resale price would be nowhere near what I paid. Am curious to see where VGF will settle now in the resale market.


----------



## ninafeliz

krysib said:


> I called in yesterday lunch time and have not yet received any paperwork. When I asked this morning on status I was told there was a backlog of 250 contracts from yesterday that they will be working through today.
> 
> Hoping to get it today!


I talked to our guide yesterday around 10:00 am and he had a little trouble getting into our account, but was able to within 5-10 min.  He said there must have just been too many guides trying at the time and it wasn’t letting him in- just like using the regular Disney site I guess . But after he got in we did what we could over the phone and he took my cc for a down payment. My husband and I got our docuSign emails by 1:00, and we filled them out last night. I looked yesterday afternoon and both of our new contracts are there and points are showing. Since all we can do is borrow until Dec and I don’t intend to do that it doesn’t matter, but I still liked seeing all of the available pints for 2022 and beyond .

Edited  for many typos and autocorrects!  I hope I got them all but doubt it.


----------



## DVChris

Disneycouple99 said:


> So, is it worth the time and effort to sell my 230 BLT points (4x50 and 1x30) to rebuy 230 GFV2?


Will you regret not making the switch or will you regret spending the extra to make the switch? Only you know the answer. If VGF is better for your family then go for it and don't look back. Now is the time IF you want to do it.


----------



## Paul Stupin

ninafeliz said:


> I talked to put guide yesterday around 10:00 am and he had a little trouble getting into our account, but was able to within 5-10 min.  He said there mist have just been too many giude trying at the time and it wasn’t letting him in- just like using the regular Disney site I guess . But after he got in we did what we could over the phone and he took my cc for a down payment. My husband and I got our docuSign emails by 1:00, and we filled them out last night. I looked yesterday afternoon and both of our new contracts are there and points are showing. Since all we can do is borrow until Dec and I don’t intend to do that it doesn’t matter, but I still liked seeing all of the available points for 2022 and beyond .


Yes, our new contracts showed up yesterday afternoon before we even signed the eDocs.


----------



## krysib

ninafeliz said:


> I looked yesterday afternoon and both of our new contracts are there and points are showing.





Paul Stupin said:


> Yes, our new contracts showed up yesterday afternoon before we even signed the eDocs.



Good to hear-I keep checking my cc for pending transactions, but I'll look on my dashboard as well. Seems like everyone say either cc or points prior to docs. 

Haven't heard of anyone from the afternoon receiving docs/points, so all of the 250 backlogged must be from after lunch. 

Does seem like its selling faster than I've heard of any the past. Anyone with more historical knowledge for comparison? 250+ in first day seems fantastic!


----------



## ninafeliz

Paul Stupin said:


> Yes, our new contracts showed up yesterday afternoon before we even signed the eDocs.


I never even thought to check, I saw them when I followed the link from our docuSign email to read something and clicked over to my dashboard from there. My guide told me that I would get the email with the documents after they charged my cc for the down payment, and they didn’t charge it for a couple of hours after I talked to him - I assume the documents came soon after, I wasn’t checking that regularly right then.


----------



## krysib

krysib said:


> Does seem like its selling faster than I've heard of any the past. Anyone with more historical knowledge for comparison? 250+ in first day seems fantastic!




Researching my own question, and it looks like when VGF1 opened in 2013, its first month of sales were:
-689 deeds recorded
-totaling 85,994 points
-all purchases the first month from existing DVC members

*So yes, in the first day of VGF2 with deed sales over 250 it looks to be a popular add-on choice.


----------



## Sandisw

Sandisw said:


> I figured it out last night and to be honest, I’d be selling 200 just to get back around 125?
> 
> So, for now, I won’t jump to change it but I am emailing my guide to ask what would happen if I decided to sell this and add on another 150 for my Dec UY along with the 150 I got in June UY.  If I qualify for the 300 point incentive it might tip the scales.



I just wanted to follow up on this.  I did talk to my guide and he said that I can absolutely qualify for the 300 point incentive level even though each 150 contract would be in a different UY because my DH and I are the same owners of both.

I was NOT expecting that answer and now is time to crunch numbers....again...but I am sure you can all figure out which way I am leaning!!! LOL


----------



## ninafeliz

krysib said:


> Researching my own question, and it looks like with VGF1 opened in 2013, its first month of sales were:
> -689 deeds recorded
> -totaling 85,994 points
> -all purchases the first month from existing DVC members
> 
> *So yes, in the first day of VGF2 with deed sales over 250 it looks to be a popular add-on choice.


How did you find out how many sales there were yesterday?  I love random stats like that!


----------



## lowlight

Sandisw said:


> I just wanted to follow up on this.  I did talk to my guide and he said that I can absolutely qualify for the 300 point incentive level even though each 150 contract would be in a different UY because my DH and I are the same owners of both.
> 
> I was NOT expecting that answer and now is time to crunch numbers....again...but I am sure you can all figure out which way I am leaning!!! LOL


Let’s be honest, “crunching numbers” just means “making them show that this is a good financial idea even if it isn’t” haha.  You should have just told your guide “sold!”.


----------



## Sandisw

ninafeliz said:


> How did you find out how many sales there were yesterday?  I love random stats like that!



I think those stats were from the original sale. But my guide said he sold more contracts yesterday than all of February. So it was a very brisk day!!


----------



## ninafeliz

Sandisw said:


> I think those stats were from the original sale. But my guide said he sold more contracts yesterday than all of February. So it was a very brisk day!!


She said over 250 deeds sold yesterday, though, that’s what I found interesting to know.


----------



## Sandisw

lowlight said:


> Let’s be honest, “crunching numbers” just means “making them show that this is a good financial idea even if it isn’t” haha.  You should have just told your guide “sold!”.



Financial decision would have been to do nothing!

That may or may not have been my answer already and I may or may not have already contacted the broker.


----------



## sethschroeder

Sounds like Disney was smart to pause VGF sales to help push all that pent up demand in to a nice kickstart for the new rollout. Have to think a number of people ended up with more points than they originally planned as well.


----------



## krysib

ninafeliz said:


> How did you find out how many sales there were yesterday?  I love random stats like that!



I called in yesterday to purchase and have not yet received my contract/docusign. I called for a status update this morning and my guide told me I was one of 250 pending contracts backlogged from yesterday. So while I don't know total number from yesterday, I do know its higher than 250!


----------



## MinBz

krysib said:


> Researching my own question, and it looks like with VGF1 opened in 2013, its first month of sales were:
> -689 deeds recorded
> -totaling 85,994 points
> -all purchases the first month from existing DVC members
> 
> *So yes, in the first day of VGF2 with deed sales over 250 it looks to be a popular add-on choice.



How many total points does VGF2 have?  I’m curious how fast it will take to sell out.  What prior resort sold the fastest and will this beat it?


----------



## DonMacGregor

Sandisw said:


> I think those stats were from the original sale. But my guide said he sold more contracts yesterday than all of February. So it was a very brisk day!!


I have a feeling it's all hands on deck and the ripple effect is moving out through other teams at DVC. I called this morning after getting no love via chat, asking to get some points loaded from a resale contract that showed up on my account on Sunday, and was basically told they would show "eventually".


----------



## Wedgeout

Sounds like this new points idea is going very very well. This is just the current members. They may get no rest for months.


----------



## Sandisw

krysib said:


> I called in yesterday to purchase and have not yet received my contract/docusign. I called for a status update this morning and my guide told me I was one of 250 pending contracts backlogged from yesterday. So while I don't know total number from yesterday, I do know its higher than 250!



I was told this morning that there is a backlog as well, at least 200 at the time I discussed options.


----------



## ninafeliz

I’m wondering if all of these sales are abnormal, or if it’s common when a new resort goes on sale?  This frenzy seems unusual to me, but I haven’t been a member through other new properties so I don’t know.  Is this selling faster or does it just feel
like it to those of us following online?


----------



## Sandisw

sethschroeder said:


> Sounds like Disney was smart to pause VGF sales to help push all that pent up demand in to a nice kickstart for the new rollout. Have to think a number of people ended up with more points than they originally planned as well.



I completely agree.  My original plan was 80 for every other year in December for a few nights to split with my RIV nights.  Then I said maybe 100...then the prices came out and boom...it was 150 at 12:20 am yesterday!!!!!  LOL


----------



## tidefan

ninafeliz said:


> I’m wondering if all of these sales are abnormal, or if it’s common when a new resort goes on sale?  This frenzy seems unusual to me, but I haven’t been a member through other new properties so I don’t know.  Is this selling faster or does it just feel
> like it to those of us following online?


Last time I remember something like this was when VGF1 went on sale.  There was like a 2 week period where existing members got a $10 discount ($145 vs $155) per point.


----------



## krysib

MinBz said:


> How many total points does VGF2 have?  I’m curious how fast it will take to sell out.  What prior resort sold the fastest and will this beat it?




Not sure-but that line of questioning is right up my alley!

Another forum member estimated the total points of VGF2 at 1,779,844 points (+71% to VGF). Not sure how accurate or not that is.....

I can't seem to find stats on points per month by resort, but I did find that VGF1 highest month was its second full month (makes sense as non-members could start purchasing) and it sold 226,439 points across 1,642 deeds.

For comparison-when Poly opened to DVC, its highest month was 6 months into sales in June 2015 and sold 107,067 points across 853 deeds.

Edited to add: This is deeds recorded which is a lagging indicator of when a member might have signed the contract (good call out @sethschroeder)


----------



## sethschroeder

krysib said:


> Not sure-but that line of questioning is right up my alley!
> 
> Another forum member estimated the total points of VGF2 at 1,779,844 points (+71% to VGF). Not sure how accurate or not that is.....
> 
> I can't seem to find stats on points per month by resort, but I did find that VGF1 highest month was its second month (makes sense as non-members could start purchasing) and it sold 226,439 points across 1,642 deeds.



Some of those numbers are "off" because of how deeds are recorded. So while members could purchase in May and non-members in June you had a huge spike in sales in July when a large number of deeds were recorded regarding that 2 month period.

Still a really good month but something to keep in mind.

VGF2 is a little different though since normally new resorts go on sale in the middle of the month from what I saw in the past but this one went on sale to start the month.


----------



## macman123

So you don’t get 2021 points.

i am Aug UY and would pay dues from June opening for 2 months whilst not having those points

RIV you would get 2021 points. Yes I get restrictions but that only applies when you sell…..

I also don’t get luggage as from the Uk. It’s just paying 2 months of dues when you can’t use points ……


----------



## Sandisw

macman123 said:


> So you don’t get 2021 points.
> 
> i am Aug UY and would pay dues from June opening for 2 months whilst not having those points
> 
> RIV you would get 2021 points. Yes I get restrictions but that only applies when you sell…..
> 
> I also don’t get luggage as from the Uk. It’s just paying 2 months of dues when you can’t use points ……



That is not correct.  You pay dues from resort opening or when you get your first set of points, whichever is later.  So, for an Aug UY, you will pay 5 months of dues, not 6 1/2 months.


----------



## macman123

Sandisw said:


> That is not correct.  You pay dues from resort opening or when you get your first set of points, whichever is later.  So, for an Aug UY, you will pay 5 months of dues, not 6 1/2 months.



Ah. I had specifically asked my guide that and he confirmed by text. I said so I paid dues for June and July but don’t get points until August. He said yes ……..


----------



## CarolMN

krysib said:


> I called in yesterday lunch time and have not yet received any paperwork. When I asked this morning on status I was told there was a backlog of 250 contracts from yesterday that they will be working through today.
> 
> Hoping to get it today!


Thanks for posting this.  I didn't talk to my guide until about 8 PM Eastern last night.  He thought I'd have the docs to sign sometime today.   But now I won't  worry if I don't see them until sometime on Monday.   I'm OK with that as long as the points show up before 3/14.  I want to book a few night in a resort studio to begin our annual Holiday trip in early December.



macman123 said:


> Ah. I had specifically asked my guide that and he confirmed by text. I said so I paid dues for June and July but don’t get points until August. He said yes ……..



My guide said the same thing  - I pay dues as of resort opening even though I don't get 2021 points.   I also have an August  use year.    I did push back a bit, but he said he was sure.   I know that conflicts with what some others have said, so it will be interesting to see what actually happens.    2022 dues weren't included in the initial package, and IIRC, those won't show up until sometime after VGF2 opens.

In the overall scheme of things, it won't matter too much to me, either way.


----------



## MISCdisney21

Think I was on phone around 10AM locking in my deal. Guide did say I was in first 500 to get the luggage but there was a backlog and not to expect documents until this evening if they get to it today.


----------



## lowlight

My guide very specifically said "and the good news is, you only pay dues from your use year, not resort opening" in response to my dismay that 2021 UY points weren't included.  It was a "yeah that sucks, but this is good" part of it.  I hope I didn't get bad news, my guide has been there almost 20 years so I believe him.


----------



## ninafeliz

T


lowlight said:


> My guide very specifically said "and the good news is, you only pay dues from your use year, not resort opening" in response to my dismay that 2021 UY points weren't included.  It was a "yeah that sucks, but this is good" part of it.  I hope I didn't get bad news, my guide has been there almost 20 years so I believe him.


That’s what my guide said.  No points, but also prorated dues so I’ll only pay 1 month this year with a December UY.  I would have rather paid the dues and had the points, but since I don’t get a choice it doesn’t matter what I would rather get.


----------



## Lorrie7249

krysib said:


> I called in yesterday to purchase and have not yet received my contract/docusign. I called for a status update this morning and my guide told me I was one of 250 pending contracts backlogged from yesterday. So while I don't know total number from yesterday, I do know its higher than 250!



I am in this boat as well...my guide didn't get back to me yesterday until around 5:45 which is when I made the purchase...docs just arrived 2:30pm via email


----------



## krysib

Lorrie7249 said:


> I am in this boat as well...my guide didn't get back to me yesterday until around 5:45 which is when I made the purchase...docs just arrived 2:30pm via email



Ugh-well you've beat me! I'm still (not so) patiently waiting!! 

Congrats on your newest addition, nice collection!


----------



## DisneyMom_3

TinkB278 said:


> Has anyone with a late UY heard from their guide heard if they will allow us to borrow 50% to use for booking a June 2022 trip this year? I’m October UY but would love to add a couple nights on to our June stay this year! Not sure if that’s possible or not.


My guide yesterday confirmed that I would be able to borrow 50% of my 2022 points. I have  a December UY.


----------



## DisneyMom_3

macman123 said:


> So you don’t get 2021 points.
> 
> i am Aug UY and would pay dues from June opening for 2 months whilst not having those points
> 
> RIV you would get 2021 points. Yes I get restrictions but that only applies when you sell…..
> 
> I also don’t get luggage as from the Uk. It’s just paying 2 months of dues when you can’t use points ……


Your dues would be prorated from your August UY. My guide confirmed yesterday that I would only have to pay one month since I have a December UY.


----------



## Lorrie7249

krysib said:


> Ugh-well you've beat me! I'm still (not so) patiently waiting!!
> 
> Congrats on your newest addition, nice collection!



I'm sure yours won't be far behind   Congrats to you as well


----------



## JoeDisney247365

JoeDisney247365 said:


> I just purchased 150 points a week ago and am actually considering adding on 200 more for a $25 dollar discount...somebody take my internet away lol





rubybutt said:


> you have 10 days to back out and get the better price!



Thank you for this info! I called my rep to add on the extra points and ask if there was anything they could do about getting me the better incentives on the first contract and he suggested this since we were within 10 days.  Instead of adding on points we just void the first 150 point contract where I received $4 off per point and buy one bigger 300 point contract at $26 off per point. We divided that into two 150 point contracts.  Went from $600 off of 150 points to $7800 off of 300 points!  Pretty happy   Although this does mean starting over with paperwork and a new digital membership card that will show ND again haha. But the savings and extra points makes it worth it.


----------



## Paul Stupin

Lorrie7249 said:


> I am in this boat as well...my guide didn't get back to me yesterday until around 5:45 which is when I made the purchase...docs just arrived 2:30pm via email


Maybe check with guide to make sure you get the luggage, if you bought the required points?


----------



## Lorrie7249

He did mention last night that we'd be getting the luggage... we did a 150 contract and a 50 contract for 200 total pts.


----------



## Bali2012

In case anyone wondering the luggage set was only for US and Canada - others not eligible


----------



## ninafeliz

Paul Stupin said:


> Maybe check with guide to make sure you get the luggage, if you bought the required points?





Lorrie7249 said:


> He did mention last night that we'd be getting the luggage... we did a 150 contract and a 50 contract for 200 total pts.


We had a separate docuSign document that we had to sign for each contract that was just about the luggage.  We bought 2 150 point contracts, and I got 4 emails with documents.  I thought they just have just sent my husbands to me as well or something, but it turned out that we had to sign the usual 32 page document with all of the info and a 2 page document just about the luggage for each contract!  So I would just look for that, and if you had to sign and finish it then you definitely got the luggage.


----------



## SleeplessInTO

ninafeliz said:


> We had a separate docuSign document that we had to sign for each contract that was just about the luggage.  We bought 2 150 point contracts, and I got 4 emails with documents.  I thought they just have just sent my husbands to me as well or something, but it turned out that we had to sign the usual 32 page document with all of the info and a 2 page document just about the luggage for each contract!  So I would just look for that, and if you had to sign and finish it then you definitely got the luggage.


Interesting - my luggage paperwork was included in the contract (last page or so).


----------



## ninafeliz

SleeplessInTO said:


> Interesting - my luggage paperwork was included in the contract (last page or so).


Weird.  I had been wondering about the luggage, then opened the two emails that I had though were either duplicates or my husband’s, and there they were - a separate 2 pages that needed signed.


----------



## joerohdesearring

Just bought 175 points for our first direct contract!  

Guide confirmed I will only pay 3 months of dues, since we have an October UY. No luggage for us though, apparently they got an email saying it was "sold out" today because of all the buyers yesterday.


----------



## Sandisw

joerohdesearring said:


> Just bought 175 points for our first direct contract!
> 
> Guide confirmed I will only pay 3 months of dues, since we have an October UY. No luggage for us though, apparently they got an email saying it was "sold out" today because of all the buyers yesterday.



Wow!  That means they had to sell at least 60K points in one day!!!  But congrats on the new points!!!!


----------



## joerohdesearring

Sandisw said:


> Wow!  That means they had to sell at least 60K points in one day!!!  But congrats on the new points!!!!


Thank you!


----------



## SusieQ93

Sandisw said:


> Wow!  That means they had to sell at least 60K points in one day!!!  But congrats on the new points!!!!


Can you explain to me the 60k math? I thought the minimum for current owners was 50 pts, 50 x 500 = 25,000 (I know tons of people bought well over 50 pts) 

Not trying to be argumentative, just curious about how you arrived at 60k. Seems like this resort is going to sell out quicker than normal at this pace!


----------



## stwaldman

SusieQ93 said:


> Can you explain to me the 60k math? I thought the minimum for current owners was 50 pts, 50 x 500 = 25,000 (I know tons of people bought well over 50 pts)
> 
> Not trying to be argumentative, just curious about how you arrived at 60k. Seems like this resort is going to sell out quicker than normal at this pace!


the promo for the giveaway was 125 points min, so 500*125 = min 62,500 from just those purchases, not including any smaller purchases or people that added on in excess of 125


----------



## SusieQ93

stwaldman said:


> the promo for the giveaway was 125 points min, so 500*125 = min 62,500 from just those purchases, not including any smaller purchases or people that added on in excess of 125


Duh! Thank you!!


----------



## stwaldman

SusieQ93 said:


> Duh! Thank you!!


i have no clue if i'm in this population, since I deposited last night and am in contract limbo like a bunch of other suckers :-D


----------



## SusieQ93

stwaldman said:


> i have no clue if i'm in this population, since I deposited last night and am in contract limbo like a bunch of other suckers :-D


I hope you get your luggage! But congrats anyway! The big prize is the points.


----------



## krysib

stwaldman said:


> i have no clue if i'm in this population, since I deposited last night and am in contract limbo like a bunch of other suckers :-D



Maybe we should make our own thread of “suckers in contract limbo” 

I’m dying here-seems like there is no rhyme or reason to the order things are begging processed right now. (Not complaining just excited!!!)

I called and was added via phone at 12:35 CST yesterday but I’ve seen others who called later in the day already have their points. 

It must be factors like:
previous direct vs. resale
Cash vs. finance
Same UY or new UY

FWIW, my guide DID say that luggage gift was based on position in queue.


----------



## MISCdisney21

Didn’t buy for luggage but hope I get it. Guide said this morning I would but could’ve been before all the contracts got loaded


----------



## Paul Stupin

Quick question. When will I be able to use these new VGF2 points (March UY) to book a vacation in 2023? Was planning on taking advantage of the 11 month window and booking in early June for early May 2023, but is this dependent on the actual opening date this summer?


----------



## davidl81

FWIW talking to my guide today he said that off the charts sales would be an understatement and it was by far the best opening day ever for DVC.  Who knows what to make out of that though.


----------



## smmora

Paul Stupin said:


> Quick question. When will I be able to use these new VGF2 points (March UY) to book a vacation in 2023? Was planning on taking advantage of the 11 month window and booking in early June for early May 2023, but is this dependent on the actual opening date this summer?


I think you can book anytime after June 19th - I was playing around with mine and I could use mine to book in July 2022 (I have Feb UY)


----------



## Sandisw

Paul Stupin said:


> Quick question. When will I be able to use these new VGF2 points (March UY) to book a vacation in 2023? Was planning on taking advantage of the 11 month window and booking in early June for early May 2023, but is this dependent on the actual opening date this summer?



I have already booked with mine. Four nights in July! And 2 in December.


----------



## zapple

Does anyone know how much the closing costs are for a 50 point contract?


----------



## eccobleu

zapple said:


> Does anyone know how much the closing costs are for a 50 point contract?



It's around $401 for a cash purchase


----------



## zapple

eccobleu said:


> It's around $401 for a cash purchase


Yes, a cash purchase, I should have specified! Thank you!


----------



## CarolMN

Just got my docs & points a few minutes ago..  Bought last night around 8 pm Eastern.

I'll be calling MS on 3/14 to book one of the new resort studios for the last few nights of November.


----------



## DisneyMom_3

zapple said:


> Does anyone know how much the closing costs are for a 50 point contract?


----------



## DisneyMom_3

DisneyMom_3 said:


> View attachment 652113


What exactly is the document prep fee?
How is it different from closing costs?
Splitting contracts is a minimal difference in closing costs, but adding an extra $250 for each adds up.


----------



## Sandisw

DisneyMom_3 said:


> What exactly is the document prep fee?
> How is it different from closing costs?
> Splitting contracts is a minimal difference in closing costs, but adding an extra $250 for each adds up.



The $250 is part of the closing costs but the same no matter size of contract. The other closing costs change based on side of contract And include things like mortgage tax, title insurance, etc. that are paid out.  

The fee is basically what Disney charges for their work.


----------



## Jwaire

My guide finally got around to promoting it.

“The time is here! We’re so excited to announce the sale of The Villas at Disney’s Grand Floridian Resort & Spa beginning today!

As the *crown jewel* of Disney Vacation Club, this beloved Resort offers relaxing stays in accommodations featuring a harmonious blend of Victorian elegance and modern comforts.”

They are excited to say the least.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

DebbieB said:


> so you would have got October 2008 points?



I still have that paperwork.  Need to find that file and take a look.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

Paul Stupin said:


> Just a brief congratulations, and thank you, for being so dead on right regarding the VGF2 pricing from the moment it was announced. Having just bought some points for $255, I was initially disbelieving but your arguments convinced me pretty quickly. You clearly know what you’re talking about!



lol - thanks.  Just have consistently seen it being done the same way.  I think every resort has the predictions that it is the one that will break that mold.  Maybe the next one.


----------



## SleeplessInTO

zapple said:


> Does anyone know how much the closing costs are for a 50 point contract?


Doc prep fee 250
Recording fee 18.50
City/county stamp/tax 72.80
Title insurance 60.10 (I think?)

The doc prep fee and recording fee appear to be fixed regardless of contract size. The stamp/tax and title insurance vary.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

ninafeliz said:


> I’m wondering if all of these sales are abnormal, or if it’s common when a new resort goes on sale?  This frenzy seems unusual to me, but I haven’t been a member through other new properties so I don’t know.  Is this selling faster or does it just feel
> like it to those of us following online?



It's common.  Also fairly common when they do an announcement that a resort is about to sell out and it's the last chance.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

davidl81 said:


> FWIW talking to my guide today he said that off the charts sales would be an understatement and it was by far the best opening day ever for DVC.  Who knows what to make out of that though.



Better than BLT?  Guides were declaring it would sell out before it even made it to general sales.


----------



## Paul Stupin

smmora said:


> I think you can book anytime after June 19th - I was playing around with mine and I could use mine to book in July 2022 (I have Feb UY)
> 
> 
> Sandisw said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have already booked with mine. Four nights in July! And 2 in December.
> 
> Ahhh. Good to know! Thanks you guys!
Click to expand...


----------



## Paul Stupin

The luggage set is now no longer available.


----------



## DKZB

Bought yesterday but didn‘t get my docs til today. A couple things:

1. I saw a line in there that sort of looked like a resale use restriction. Has anyone else seen this? This may be standard and I am not familiar with the resale restriction language on RIV. Anyone know?

2. I asked them to not include the title insurance per comments on the board but I see it anyway. It  is optional, correct? Major downside to turning it down (if I can) since I’m buying direct anyway?


----------



## ninafeliz

Paul Stupin said:


> Quick question.





Paul Stupin said:


> The luggage set is now no longer available.


Just curious how you found out?


----------



## New Mouse

Jwaire said:


> My guide finally got around to promoting it.
> 
> “The time is here! We’re so excited to announce the sale of The Villas at Disney’s Grand Floridian Resort & Spa beginning today!
> 
> As the *crown jewel* of Disney Vacation Club, this beloved Resort offers relaxing stays in accommodations featuring a harmonious blend of Victorian elegance and modern comforts.”
> 
> They are excited to say the least.



Crown Jewel? Man poly and grand cal are both better


----------



## Paul Stupin

ninafeliz said:


> Just curious how you found out?


It’s on the DVC website if you navigate to the Grand Floridian page after clicking on special offers. I wanted to get more information on exactly what the luggage set was, since after buying yesterday I’m going to be receiving it, and if you click on the little picture of the luggage set an announcement comes up saying that it’s no longer available.


----------



## Paul Stupin

New Mouse said:


> Crown Jewel? Man poly and grand cal are both better


I think you’ll find that there are a lot of folks who might disagree with you.


----------



## New Mouse

Paul Stupin said:


> I think you’ll find that there are a lot of folks who might disagree with you.



It's ok they are allowed to be wrong.  The Grand Floridian is nothing special these days.  Maybe it was wow back in the 80s, but even Riviera is nicer.  Top 4 or 5 maybe?


----------



## Cyberc1978

If Disney will take my money for 200 VGF points how much should I expect in closing costs? 
I’m thinking about either 4 x 50 contracts or 2 x 75 + 1 x 50 maybe even 2 x 100.
I already have the blue card so no need for doing 1 x 150 plus 1x50.


----------



## DisneyMom_3

Cyberc1978 said:


> If Disney will take my money for 200 VGF points how much should I expect in closing costs?
> I’m thinking about either 4 x 50 contracts or 2 x 75 + 1 x 50 maybe even 2 x 100.
> I already have the blue card so no need for doing 1 x 150 plus 1x50.


I am considering this myself so I used the add-on tool to find the prices. (The final cost won’t be correct, because it won’t take into account the incentives that you qualify for at 200.) The closing cost difference is minimal, but each contract has a $250 doc preparation fee.


----------



## Cyberc1978

DisneyMom_3 said:


> I am considering this myself so I used the add-on tool to find the prices. (The final cost won’t be correct, because it won’t take into account the incentives that you qualify for at 200.) The closing cost difference is minimal, but each contract has a $250 doc preparation fee.
> 
> View attachment 652168View attachment 652169View attachment 652170


Thanks a lot.
I don’t have access the to tool so I can’t use it but this is very help full.


----------



## Cyberc1978

Btw have anyone gotten a discount or similar on the documents preparation fee? I mean printing 4 of the same documents shouldn’t cost $1,000


----------



## DisneyMom_3

Cyberc1978 said:


> Thanks a lot.
> I don’t have access the to tool so I can’t use it but this is very help full.


Glad I could help!  
(I apologize if it came off like I was saying you could’ve done it yourself. I was just wanting to let you to know how I figured it. )


----------



## Nabas

Cyberc1978 said:


> Btw have anyone gotten a discount or similar on the documents preparation fee? I mean printing 4 of the same documents shouldn’t cost $1,000


Typical doc prep is more complex but it is obnoxious to add on something that long ago used to be included in the price (reference hotel parking and Genie+).


----------



## DisneyMom_3

Nabas said:


> Typical doc prep is more complex but it is obnoxious to add on something that long ago used to be included in the price (reference hotel parking and Genie+).


When I asked about 3 - 100 point contracts, it was going to be a difference of a little over $500 (extra $250 each plus minimal difference in closing cost) versus 1 - 300 point contract.
When I said that extra $500 made it so the price was above my budget (paying cash), they offered to extend payments out over 60 days but couldn’t change the fees.


----------



## mort1331

Paul Stupin said:


> The luggage set is now no longer available.


that was quick


----------



## krysib

Still waiting on my docs since calling mid day on Thursday. Anybody else still waiting for docs from a day one call? 

At this point should I expect anything over the weekend or will it be Monday?


----------



## stwaldman

krysib said:


> Still waiting on my docs since calling mid day on Thursday. Anybody else still waiting for docs from a day one call?
> 
> At this point should I expect anything over the weekend or will it be Monday?


I got mine *late* yesterday after depositing Thursday after dinner time. I would assume the only other variables that might change things would be financing options or fixed week stuff which might take more processing


----------



## joerohdesearring

stwaldman said:


> I got mine *late* yesterday after depositing Thursday after dinner time. I would assume the only other variables that might change things would be financing options or fixed week stuff which might take more processing


True. Do they send out docs on the weekend? I bought yesterday afternoon and I have been stalking my inbox after my guide said I would get the email the same day.


----------



## Deeleebaker

stwaldman said:


> I got mine *late* yesterday after depositing Thursday after dinner time. I would assume the only other variables that might change things would be financing options or fixed week stuff which might take more processing


I bought AKL to get 2021 points (December use year) and used my Disney card to make the deposit and I haven’t seen a hold or gotten documents yet. I bought at 1030am yesterday and then at 1215 asked to have the points at Jambo house not Kidani like my other points. I haven’t felt like this since I was waiting for ROFR, or points loading, LOL.


----------



## DisneyMom_3

Deeleebaker said:


> I bought AKL to get 2021 points (December use year) and used my Disney card to make the deposit and I haven’t seen a hold or gotten documents yet. I bought at 1030am yesterday and then at 1215 asked to have the points at Jambo house not Kidani like my other points. I haven’t felt like this since I was waiting for ROFR, or points loading, LOL.


I hear ya! I spoke to my guide first thing Thursday morning, but my phone dropped the call and I wasn’t able to get back in touch with him until the end of the day. He was finalizing everything (already had my credit card information) when he realized there was a problem and it wouldn’t actually create the contracts.  
(I wanted 3 - 100 point contracts with my husband’s name included. It’s considered a new membership since his name isn’t on the current one, so one had to be at least 150. I wanted equal contracts because I have 3 kids. Between that and the fact that I wouldn’t be getting 2021 points as hoped, I told him I needed to think about it before I decided if I wanted equal contracts or my husband on the membership.)
But, he was off yesterday and today! I’m hoping today doesn’t seem to drag on like yesterday did!


----------



## DisneyMom_3

Anyone know if I still qualify for incentives if I split my contracts and the memberships have different names? (One in just my name that ties to the existing one I already have AND one in my name and my husband’s so he gets a blue card too.)


----------



## Deeleebaker

DisneyMom_3 said:


> I hear ya! I spoke to my guide first thing Thursday morning, but my phone dropped the call and I wasn’t able to get back in touch with him until the end of the day. He was finalizing everything (already had my credit card information) when he realized there was a problem and it wouldn’t actually create the contracts.
> (I wanted 3 - 100 point contracts with my husband’s name included. It’s considered a new membership since his name isn’t on the current one, so one had to be at least 150. I wanted equal contracts because I have 3 kids. Between that and the fact that I wouldn’t be getting 2021 points as hoped, I told him I needed to think about it before I decided if I wanted equal contracts or my husband on the membership.)
> But, he was off yesterday and today! I’m hoping today doesn’t seem to drag on like yesterday did!


I spoke to my guide Thursday too and then did hours of math to see whether I should get 60 or 125 VGF or AKL. I was all ready to get 60 VGF until he said no 2021 points. I did a lot of math and sample vacation planning over 10 years and Landed on 80 points AKL. The extra banked 2021 points keep me in 1 BR pretty much forever, just not as often at VGF and RIV and I can keep trying out all the resorts until addonitis gets me another small add on.

I loved VGF even though the studio was cramped for 3, and hope I can still get a 1br someday in February. If not, AKL and animal watching is fine with me.


----------



## TinkB278

Deeleebaker said:


> I spoke to my guide Thursday too and then did hours of math to see whether I should get 60 or 125 VGF or AKL. I was all ready to get 60 VGF until he said no 2021 points. I did a lot of math and sample vacation planning over 10 years and Landed on 80 points AKL. The extra banked 2021 points keep me in 1 BR pretty much forever, just not as often at VGF and RIV and I can keep trying out all the resorts until addonitis gets me another small add on.
> 
> I loved VGF even though the studio was cramped for 3, and hope I can still get a 1br someday in February. If not, AKL and animal watching is fine with me.


I’m in this exact same predicament! Trying to decide between 80ish points direct at AKL or VGF. I like the cheaper rooms at AKL but the contract is 7 years shorter. I just don’t know what to do. The double points is what tipped the scale for you?


----------



## Sandisw

DKZB said:


> Bought yesterday but didn‘t get my docs til today. A couple things:
> 
> 1. I saw a line in there that sort of looked like a resale use restriction. Has anyone else seen this? This may be standard and I am not familiar with the resale restriction language on RIV. Anyone know?
> 
> 2. I asked them to not include the title insurance per comments on the board but I see it anyway. It  is optional, correct? Major downside to turning it down (if I can) since I’m buying direct anyway?



The contract when sold is restricted to only the original resorts and can’t be used for RIV. So that is what it is referring to.


----------



## Deeleebaker

TinkB278 said:


> I’m in this exact same predicament! Trying to decide between 80ish points direct at AKL or VGF. I like the cheaper rooms at AKL but the contract is 7 years shorter. I just don’t know what to do. The double points is what tipped the scale for you?


Yep. I’ll be 90 when akl expires so that didn’t factor into it. I have a 110 AKL resale.  I was choosing between 60 and 125, and VGF and AKL. 80 AKL gave me similar trips to 125 VGF over the next 10 years with the banked points. After 10 years I’m back to a studio or value 1br every other year, but by then I might have another 50 points somewhere.


----------



## Deeleebaker

TinkB278 said:


> I’m in this exact same predicament! Trying to decide between 80ish points direct at AKL or VGF. I like the cheaper rooms at AKL but the contract is 7 years shorter. I just don’t know what to do. The double points is what tipped the scale for you?


Head to head, it might come down to home resort advantage, or dues. I love everything about AKL except driving distance and the pool is just meh. Maybe Kidani is better? I’ve never seen it.


----------



## TinkB278

Deeleebaker said:


> Head to head, it might come down to home resort advantage, or dues. I love everything about AKL except driving distance and the pool is just meh. Maybe Kidani is better? I’ve never seen it.


This is where im stuck. I’d love the home advantage at AK for the value and club level rooms but don’t like the bus only transportation with little kids. If it werent for the bad transportation I’d definitely buy and stay at AKV almost exclusively.


----------



## ninafeliz

Why are so many people changing their minds solely because you don’t get 2021 points?  I’m not being snarky, I genuinely want to know because I don’t understand.  I was disappointed to not get 2021 points, but it didn’t make me think twice at all about what I was going to buy.  I saw the price they came in at and planned on 300 points, when my guide said no points until Dec 2022 I was surprised with some disappointment and mild  annoyance, but never did it cross my mind to change anything because of it.


----------



## DKZB

Sandisw said:


> The contract when sold is restricted to only the original resorts and can’t be used for RIV. So that is what it is referring to.


So it is restricted to the Original 14. Exactly the same as other VGF resales currently


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

ninafeliz said:


> Why are so many people changing their minds solely because you don’t get 2021 points?  I’m not being snarky, I genuinely want to know because I don’t understand.  I was disappointed to not get 2021 points, but it didn’t make me think twice at all about what I was going to buy.  I saw the price they came in at and planned on 300 points, when my guide said no points until Dec 2022 I was surprised with some disappointment and mild  annoyance, but never did it cross my mind to change anything because of it.



I agree unless it was a strong debate about VGF vs a different resort.  The UY I planned to purchase at VGC way back came without the current points so at 1st I decided I'd add on my other UY which wasn't the most ideal.  But then I switched back recognizing it should be the best over the long haul.   The initial annoyance was great when they announced sales and what points they were giving but it quickly became a little blip on the radar.


----------



## DisneyMom_3

ninafeliz said:


> Why are so many people changing their minds solely because you don’t get 2021 points?  I’m not being snarky, I genuinely want to know because I don’t understand.  I was disappointed to not get 2021 points, but it didn’t make me think twice at all about what I was going to buy.  I saw the price they came in at and planned on 300 points, when my guide said no points until Dec 2022 I was surprised with some disappointment and mild  annoyance, but never did it cross my mind to change anything because of it.


These points were basically worth $20 per point or $6,000 (on my 300 point contract). I think that’s why it is a big deal! I already had “plans” for what I was going to do with them! I’ll have to rent points from another member to complete my reservation or shorten my vacation or choose a smaller Villa. (Not meant to be snarky either.  )


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

DisneyMom_3 said:


> These points were basically worth $20 per point or $6,000. I think that’s why it is a big deal! I already had “plans” for what I was going to do with them! I’ll have to rent points from another member to complete my reservation or shorten my vacation or choose a smaller Villa. (Not meant to be snarky either.  )



For years it's been said here to not buy based on one trip.  Just be certain to consider the entire life of the contract.  
As I mentioned though if it was always a debate between a couple of locations then use whatever factors sway you one way or the other.


----------



## tjkraz

KAT4DISNEY said:


> For years it's been said here to not buy based on one trip.  Just be certain to consider the entire life of the contract.
> As I mentioned though if it was always a debate between a couple of locations then use whatever factors sway you one way or the other.



By July 2023 there may be some perceived benefit to buying and still getting October 2022 points. Of course, it will likely cost $15-20 more per point, assuming DVC is still selling. And in the end, you get the same number of points. The only real benefit to waiting is a modest dues savings, which has no chance of exceeding the higher acquisition cost.


----------



## sndral

Well I chatted online early morning 2 days ago when sales opened. Tried calling my guide that night - left a voice message & also replied to the email he’d sent. Yesterday he called at 9:25 am my time (west coast) & it took exactly half an hour to arrange my purchase - he said the docs would arrive w/in 24 hours, they haven’t yet - I’m still waiting, also waiting for the first of the 3 payments I scheduled for my Chase visa to show up. Anyone else in the same boat? I’m wondering now if I won’t see any docs until Monday.
BTW, I didn’t ask - but he mentioned that the luggage was gone


----------



## DKZB

I think this has been discussed but what is the risk in not taking the title insurance since we are buying direct?


----------



## DisneyMom_3

KAT4DISNEY said:


> For years it's been said here to not buy based on one trip.  Just be certain to consider the entire life of the contract.
> As I mentioned though if it was always a debate between a couple of locations then use whatever factors sway you one way or the other.


It didn’t sway my decision to a different resort. I wasn’t planning to buy another 300 points (I was thinking 200-250, but when I saw the incentives I started thinking how the extra $6000 worth of points could justify my extra spending.) I was thinking I would be getting a minimum of 400-500 points at the start of my contract, so paying more and getting less than I initially had thought I would get is disappointing. But, I decided one year/trip wasn’t worth missing out on another 300 point contract.


----------



## DonMacGregor

DKZB said:


> So it is restricted to the Original 14. Exactly the same as other VGF resales currently


Exactly the same as buying any other direct points from any other resort (except Riviera). You can use them to book at RR, but anyone you sell them to down the road cannot.


----------



## CaptainAmerica

KAT4DISNEY said:


> For years it's been said here to not buy based on one trip.  Just be certain to consider the entire life of the contract.
> As I mentioned though if it was always a debate between a couple of locations then use whatever factors sway you one way or the other.


But in the discounted cash flow model of total cost/benefit of ownership, Year 0 points should be valued dollar-for-dollar.


----------



## Kjdisney

tjkraz said:


> By July 2023 there may be some perceived benefit to buying and still getting October 2022 points. Of course, it will likely cost $15-20 more per point, assuming DVC is still selling. And in the end, you get the same number of points. The only real benefit to waiting is a modest dues savings, which has no chance of exceeding the higher acquisition cost.


This is why I decided to wait.  I was originally planning on purchasing 125 points.  But my first resale contract came loaded with 20/21 points easily rented out for a couple of thousand dollars, so if I wait till 2023 it’s basically a wash if the price isn’t over $220.  If I hadn’t been successful renting points out, it probably wouldn’t have bothered me as much. 

It’s just with an Oct UY I should be getting 2021 points, and don’t understand how DVD is allowed to not to give them.  DVD knows the value since they offer to ”buy back” these points for $10 on other promotions.  I hope this isn’t going to be some new policy with direct sales.  

So I’ll wait and see what happens to resale prices, as well as pricing/charts for DLT, before making any commitments.  I might regret it though if this sales pace keeps up and it’s sold out before 2023!


----------



## Littlelulu01

KAT4DISNEY said:


> For years it's been said here to not buy based on one trip.  Just be certain to consider the entire life of the contract.
> As I mentioned though if it was always a debate between a couple of locations then use whatever factors sway you one way or the other.


If looking at the entire life of the contract it looks even worse of a deal. Gfv will net 41 more sets of points. Rivera will net 48 more sets of points before expiration. At $207 a point one can factor a per year cost for gfv at $5.05 a point just in purchase prices.  Long term maintenance fees can be expected to far outpace Riviera’s.  The grand Floridian hotel building is already 30 + years old.  The monorail is already 50+ years old.  
When I purchased my Riviera contract I factored in the free set of current UY points, discount on next UY points and I used all the points to book a deal Aulani was running for 2 free nights on my 10 night stay. I literally had the initial contract paid for compared to cash rates within the first year.
Grand Floridian villas were our favorite resort until we stayed at Riviera which now rates far above any dvc property.
Grand Floridian will sell well and if that’s the resort someone loves as much as we love Riviera then it’s worth the price.  The missing current UY points was a big deal for me and definitely the dealbreaker.  In a few more months people won’t be faced with purchasing a stripped contract so the decision to omit current UY points was a smart calculation on their part. For someone like me who already had those points factored into expenditure justification, the free luggage could not make up for the lost points.


----------



## MISCdisney21

Talked with guide yesterday around 10am eat to make purchase. E-sign documents received about 11am today.


----------



## joerohdesearring

MISCdisney21 said:


> Talked with guide yesterday around 10am eat to make purchase. E-sign documents received about 11am today.


Nice! Still waiting on mine about 23 hours later.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

Littlelulu01 said:


> If looking at the entire life of the contract it looks even worse of a deal. Gfv will net 41 more sets of points. Rivera will net 48 more sets of points before expiration. At $207 a point one can factor a per year cost for gfv at $5.05 a point just in purchase prices.  Long term maintenance fees can be expected to far outpace Riviera’s.  The grand Floridian hotel building is already 30 + years old.  The monorail is already 50+ years old.
> When I purchased my Riviera contract I factored in the free set of current UY points, discount on next UY points and I used all the points to book a deal Aulani was running for 2 free nights on my 10 night stay. I literally had the initial contract paid for compared to cash rates within the first year.
> Grand Floridian villas were our favorite resort until we stayed at Riviera which now rates far above any dvc property.
> Grand Floridian will sell well and if that’s the resort someone loves as much as we love Riviera then it’s worth the price.  The missing current UY points was a big deal for me and definitely the dealbreaker.  In a few more months people won’t be faced with purchasing a stripped contract so the decision to omit current UY points was a smart calculation on their part. For someone like me who already had those points factored into expenditure justification, the free luggage could not make up for the lost points.



If you're intent was to just buy something right now then yes, you are correct that it makes a difference and becomes part of the factor I mentioned of where you purchase.  As Tim noted though in another year people won't have an issue AND they'll be paying more.   My point is there's an initial sting for this unexpected twist but it maybe shouldn't be weighted so heavily in the decision.

FWIW I didn't like it with VGC and I understand not liking it but I moved forward with my plan anyway and really don't think about it.  For staying at VGC the deal of not having the points was a pittance and VGF probably works out very similar if that is where you most want to stay.    I have no idea why they wouldn't be selling with 2021 points for at least the Aug-Dec UY's.  I can reasonably understand Feb-June since the units won't be open until June.


----------



## Anthony Vito

DKZB said:


> Bought yesterday but didn‘t get my docs til today. A couple things:
> 
> . . .
> 2. I asked them to not include the title insurance per comments on the board but I see it anyway. It  is optional, correct? Major downside to turning it down (if I can) since I’m buying direct anyway?





DKZB said:


> I think this has been discussed but what is the risk in not taking the title insurance since we are buying direct?



So I'm curious what others have to say about this.  We bought our first contract in 2019 and our 2nd in August 2020 (those Riviera incentives were just too good at the time).  I didn't really know anything and got title insurance the first time.  For the 2nd one, I had them remove it.  I want to say it saved about $130.  I had a slight understanding of title insurance by then (I was in the middle of working at a real estate law firm for essentially 6 months or so - never had it fully described or discussed, like many things there).  As I understand it, title insurance would protect against losing the property because someone brought a claim that they had an ownership interest in the property, e.g., their grandfather should have inherited an interest in the property but non one ever realized or a lien was never satisfied against the property so that lien is still there, etc.  The way I look at it, if you're buying from Disney, if there was some issue with the title to the property then it would likely be with the entire property (i.e., resort) and there would be thousands of people with a title issue as well as Disney, so I would think it would all get resolved and my tiny fractional ownership interest wouldn't be the main impetus for doing so.



Cyberc1978 said:


> Btw have anyone gotten a discount or similar on the documents preparation fee? I mean printing 4 of the same documents shouldn’t cost $1,000



I would assume the "document prep" would be for each separate deed, which would each be a separate document and not just a copy of the same document.  I'm not necessarily saying it should cost anywhere near that much and agree it's simple, but that's probably why it's a non-waivable fee.  They may even be paying an outside law firm for those documents (I feel like I remember seeing something in the closing documents about a FL firm).


----------



## Sandisw

DKZB said:


> So it is restricted to the Original 14. Exactly the same as other VGF resales currently



Correct.  There is nothing new in terms of restrictions than what already changed in January 2019.  So, just like before, all direct contracts that are sold on the resale market can only be used at the original resorts, except for RIV which is restricted to just that resort.


----------



## Sandisw

Cyberc1978 said:


> Btw have anyone gotten a discount or similar on the documents preparation fee? I mean printing 4 of the same documents shouldn’t cost $1,000



I had to pay it for both the contracts I am now buying....I did ask but they said it is standard?


----------



## Sandisw

DisneyMom_3 said:


> Anyone know if I still qualify for incentives if I split my contracts and the memberships have different names? (One in just my name that ties to the existing one I already have AND one in my name and my husband’s so he gets a blue card too.)



I was able to combine the incentives, but he did say it was because the owners were the same on both the contracts we bought.


----------



## Sandisw

sndral said:


> Well I chatted online early morning 2 days ago when sales opened. Tried calling my guide that night - left a voice message & also replied to the email he’d sent. Yesterday he called at 9:25 am my time (west coast) & it took exactly half an hour to arrange my purchase - he said the docs would arrive w/in 24 hours, they haven’t yet - I’m still waiting, also waiting for the first of the 3 payments I scheduled for my Chase visa to show up. Anyone else in the same boat? I’m wondering now if I won’t see any docs until Monday.
> BTW, I didn’t ask - but he mentioned that the luggage was gone



I just got my updated documents from yesterday mornings call...so they work weekend.  My guide mentioned they were far behind.  All new points have now been loaded into my account.


----------



## Skicks35

DisneyMom_3 said:


> I hear ya! I spoke to my guide first thing Thursday morning, but my phone dropped the call and I wasn’t able to get back in touch with him until the end of the day. He was finalizing everything (already had my credit card information) when he realized there was a problem and it wouldn’t actually create the contracts.
> (I wanted 3 - 100 point contracts with my husband’s name included. It’s considered a new membership since his name isn’t on the current one, so one had to be at least 150. I wanted equal contracts because I have 3 kids. Between that and the fact that I wouldn’t be getting 2021 points as hoped, I told him I needed to think about it before I decided if I wanted equal contracts or my husband on the membership.)
> But, he was off yesterday and today! I’m hoping today doesn’t seem to drag on like yesterday did!


Just curious: is your guide Bernard??  I know he doesn't work Friday/Saturdays too and by being the "nice guy" and waiting for him, I missed out on the luggage..  peanuts in the grand scheme of things, but I'll be loyal and call him tomorrow.


----------



## DisneyMom_3

Skicks35 said:


> Just curious: is your guide Bernard??  I know he doesn't work Friday/Saturdays too and by being the "nice guy" and waiting for him, I missed out on the luggage..  peanuts in the grand scheme of things, but I'll be loyal and call him tomorrow.


No. My original guide is temporarily away from her role, so my new guide is named Roderick. He’s been great (other than not knowing that I couldn’t have 3-100 point contracts if I’m wanting my husband on the contracts). It was my fault that I had to talk to him late. I had a busy day and my phone wouldn’t work when I did have time in the afternoon. He actually stayed late to try to make it happen on the first day.
I’m actually surprised that they wouldn’t go ahead and work those two days this week though. I would think it would probably be worth it.
Sorry you missed out on the luggage!


----------



## Cyberc1978

Anthony Vito said:


> So I'm curious what others have to say about this.  We bought our first contract in 2019 and our 2nd in August 2020 (those Riviera incentives were just too good at the time).  I didn't really know anything and got title insurance the first time.  For the 2nd one, I had them remove it.  I want to say it saved about $130.  I had a slight understanding of title insurance by then (I was in the middle of working at a real estate law firm for essentially 6 months or so - never had it fully described or discussed, like many things there).  As I understand it, title insurance would protect against losing the property because someone brought a claim that they had an ownership interest in the property, e.g., their grandfather should have inherited an interest in the property but non one ever realized or a lien was never satisfied against the property so that lien is still there, etc.  The way I look at it, if you're buying from Disney, if there was some issue with the title to the property then it would likely be with the entire property (i.e., resort) and there would be thousands of people with a title issue as well as Disney, so I would think it would all get resolved and my tiny fractional ownership interest wouldn't be the main impetus for doing so.
> 
> 
> 
> I would assume the "document prep" would be for each separate deed, which would each be a separate document and not just a copy of the same document.  I'm not necessarily saying it should cost anywhere near that much and agree it's simple, but that's probably why it's a non-waivable fee.  They may even be paying an outside law firm for those documents (I feel like I remember seeing something in the closing documents about a FL firm).





Sandisw said:


> I had to pay it for both the contracts I am now buying....I did ask but they said it is standard?


Thanks

What about title insurance is that included and could it be left out? I mean I dont expect anything to be wrong when buying direct.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

CaptainAmerica said:


> But in the discounted cash flow model of total cost/benefit of ownership, Year 0 points should be valued dollar-for-dollar.


I love your economic speak…….


----------



## Sandisw

Cyberc1978 said:


> Thanks
> 
> What about title insurance is that included and could it be left out? I mean I dont expect anything to be wrong when buying direct.



Yes, the will remove that…if you tell them you want it removed.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

KAT4DISNEY said:


> If you're intent was to just buy something right now then yes, you are correct that it makes a difference and becomes part of the factor I mentioned of where you purchase.  As Tim noted though in another year people won't have an issue AND they'll be paying more.   My point is there's an initial sting for this unexpected twist but it maybe shouldn't be weighted so heavily in the decision.
> 
> FWIW I didn't like it with VGC and I understand not liking it but I moved forward with my plan anyway and really don't think about it.  For staying at VGC the deal of not having the points was a pittance and VGF probably works out very similar if that is where you most want to stay.    I have no idea why they wouldn't be selling with 2021 points for at least the Aug-Dec UY's.  I can reasonably understand Feb-June since the units won't be open until June.


I think it affects inventory…


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

BWV Dreamin said:


> I think it affects inventory…



That is the main thought I've had as well.


----------



## ninafeliz

Sandisw said:


> Yes, the will remove that…if you tell them you want it removed.


Kind of annoying that we don’t need it but they charge it anyway.  I didn’t know anything about it when we bought any of our three contracts, so we paid it three times (two being 2 days ago).  I don’t think it was that much in the grand scheme, but still stinks to lay something we didn’t have to.


----------



## CaptainAmerica

ninafeliz said:


> Kind of annoying that we don’t need it but they charge it anyway.  I didn’t know anything about it when we bought any of our three contracts, so we paid it three times (two being 2 days ago).  I don’t think it was that much in the grand scheme, but still stinks to lay something we didn’t have to.


It doesn't make them any richer, if that makes you feel any better. It goes to a third party.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

ninafeliz said:


> Kind of annoying that we don’t need it but they charge it anyway.  I didn’t know anything about it when we bought any of our three contracts, so we paid it three times (two being 2 days ago).  I don’t think it was that much in the grand scheme, but still stinks to lay something we didn’t have to.


In any real estate transaction, title insurance is suggested. While there may not be a claim where someone else owned the land ( just an example) it will protect you from faulty practices with the purchase ( title company screwed up, wrong title produced, etc).


----------



## sndral

Sandisw said:


> I just got my updated documents from yesterday mornings call...so they work weekend.  My guide mentioned they were far behind.  All new points have now been loaded into my account.


Thanks for the information. My documents showed up mid day today so about 26 hours after I’d spoken w/ my guide. 
They included the pages to sign for the travel set - wonder if my guide was wrong & I was one of the ones who’ll get a set or if my ‘travel set’ will be a backpack


----------



## Matty B13

BWV Dreamin said:


> In any real estate transaction, title insurance is suggested. While there may not be a claim where someone else owned the land ( just an example) it will protect you from faulty practices with the purchase ( title company screwed up, wrong title produced, etc).


I love how the real-estate industry makes you buy insurance to cover their mistakes???????


----------



## BWV Dreamin

Matty B13 said:


> I love how the real-estate industry makes you buy insurance to cover their mistakes???????


I have seen this  excersised once by a purchaser. Now I may be wrong on this, but I am pretty sure ( as Tracy Morgan would say) once you use your “title” insurance, you no longer have it to use anymore.


----------



## SusieQ93

So I know it seems like most people on here are already members but for us poor unfortunate non-members, any idea what the incentives will be when it goes on sale for us on March 31st? And how long incentives will last? I read the DVC news article saying $3 - $5 less than current incentives with expiration of June 1st. What do all you DVC veterans think?


----------



## BWV Dreamin

SusieQ93 said:


> So I know it seems like most people on here are already members but for us poor unfortunate non-members, any idea what the incentives will be when it goes on sale for us on March 31st? And how long incentives will last? I read the DVC news article saying $3 - $5 less than current incentives with expiration of June 1st. What do all you DVC veterans think?


Incentives will only get less and the base price will increase.


----------



## Dyefrog

BWV Dreamin said:


> Incentives will only get less and the base price will increase.


Do you have a source for the base price increasing or is this just what has happened historically?


----------



## ninafeliz

CaptainAmerica said:


> It doesn't make them any richer, if that makes you feel any better. It goes to a third party.





BWV Dreamin said:


> In any real estate transaction, title insurance is suggested. While there may not be a claim where someone else owned the land ( just an example) it will protect you from faulty practices with the purchase ( title company screwed up, wrong title produced, etc).



Eh, it’s probably fine or even better that I just got it like suggested.  Heaven forbid I made a stink and they removed it, and then I needed it.  Over a couple of hundred dollars on a transaction of over $50,000.  I do feel better now, it was just annoying to read so many people saying make sure you remove title insurance and I didn’t do it.


----------



## Marionnette

SusieQ93 said:


> So I know it seems like most people on here are already members but for us poor unfortunate non-members, any idea what the incentives will be when it goes on sale for us on March 31st? And how long incentives will last? I read the DVC news article saying $3 - $5 less than current incentives with expiration of June 1st. What do all you DVC veterans think?


That article refers to add-on incentives for current DVC members who purchase after March 30. Typically, new member prices are not as attractive as the ones for existing members. Also, new members must purchase a minimum of 150 points.


----------



## SusieQ93

Marionnette said:


> That article refers to add-on incentives for current DVC members who purchase after March 30. Typically, new member prices are not as attractive as the ones for existing members. Also, new members must purchase a minimum of 150 points.


Yeah, I’m planning for the 150 minimum - that’s been in place for a while now.


----------



## Jimmy Geppetto

MISCdisney21 said:


> Didn’t buy for luggage but hope I get it. Guide said this morning I would but could’ve been before all the contracts got loaded



If you received it, it will be in your documents.


----------



## SusieQ93

BWV Dreamin said:


> Incentives will only get less and the base price will increase.


I doubt they will increase base price right away, they just increased to $207 and seems like the plan is to price all the currently on sale resorts the same just based on what they just did.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

SusieQ93 said:


> I doubt they will increase base price right away, they just increased to $207 and seems like the plan is to price all the currently on sale resorts the same just based on what they just did.


Demand will determine that.


----------



## Cyberc1978

Matty B13 said:


> I love how the real-estate industry makes you buy insurance to cover their mistakes???????





BWV Dreamin said:


> I have seen this  excersised once by a purchaser. Now I may be wrong on this, but I am pretty sure ( as Tracy Morgan would say) once you use your “title” insurance, you no longer have it to use anymore.


Title insurance or not if the title company screws up I would expect them to make it right at no additional charge to me.


----------



## krysib

joerohdesearring said:


> Nice! Still waiting on mine about 23 hours later.



Still waiting on mine over 48 hrs later.

 Not sure why mine is taking so much longer but I have several resale contracts so maybe that’s why?

Glad to hear they are still working over the weekend though!


----------



## Sandisw

ninafeliz said:


> Kind of annoying that we don’t need it but they charge it anyway.  I didn’t know anything about it when we bought any of our three contracts, so we paid it three times (two being 2 days ago).  I don’t think it was that much in the grand scheme, but still stinks to lay something we didn’t have to.



I discussed it with my guide and he said they just don't recommend it because it is still a real estate transaction...I decided to just pay it.


----------



## sndral

krysib said:


> Still waiting on mine over 48 hrs later.
> 
> Not sure why mine is taking so much longer but I have several resale contracts so maybe that’s why?
> 
> Glad to hear they are still working over the weekend though!


You might try calling the QA no. your guide gave you - when I called w/ a question while I was signing the documents I learned that they had my son’s email entered incorrectly & thus the documents weren’t delivered to him until after they corrected the email address typo.


----------



## Sandisw

SusieQ93 said:


> So I know it seems like most people on here are already members but for us poor unfortunate non-members, any idea what the incentives will be when it goes on sale for us on March 31st? And how long incentives will last? I read the DVC news article saying $3 - $5 less than current incentives with expiration of June 1st. What do all you DVC veterans think?



 I do not see the base price going up until after non members have had a chance to buy, especially since it seems that this has really sparked sales.  DVD needed it and I would think they want to capitalize on it for a least a few months, if not more, to make up for the lost ground of the past few years.

What new members won't see is any incentive under 150 like we have as owners, and I would be surprised to see the special gift like luggage brought back for new owners...but then again, who knows!!!

So, I think you will see the new member incentives a bit less than what we current owners got, but still a nice incentive for purchasing.


----------



## Deeleebaker

Just got my docs and signed now. Yippee! 190 points a year and 80 to bank. Losing 2021 points is a big deal because I bought the minimum to get the vacation I want. I’m spreading them out over 10 years.


----------



## Sandisw

MISCdisney21 said:


> Didn’t buy for luggage but hope I get it. Guide said this morning I would but could’ve been before all the contracts got loaded



The documents included a page with the luggage listed.  It was in my first set of contracts in the same email.  When I had to re-do things, when I added on the second 150 to get to 300, and I got the new contracts today, they sent it as an additional document to be signed.  So, it could come in two different emails.


----------



## krysib

sndral said:


> You might try calling the QA no. your guide gave you - when I called w/ a question while I was signing the documents I learned that they had my son’s email entered incorrectly & thus the documents weren’t delivered to him until after they corrected the email address typo.



i don’t have a QA number. They took my credit card, verified address phone and email on file and sent it off for processing.


----------



## Sandisw

krysib said:


> i don’t have a QA number. They took my credit card, verified address phone and email on file and sent it off for processing.



I was told yesterday morning when we re-did things (around 10:00 am ish)  I would get them yesterday afternoon, but later...they didn't arrive until sometime this afternoon, so about 30 hours later.  At that time, they were backed up by 200 + contracts.


----------



## sethschroeder

Have to be honest luggage selling out is weird. As an example we just got a mailing today about VGF being offered and it's already sold out. 

By the way I laughed at the mailing since the main photo is of the 3BR and not of the new building.


----------



## krysib

Sandisw said:


> I was told yesterday morning when we re-did things (around 10:00 am ish)  I would get them yesterday afternoon, but later...they didn't arrive until sometime this afternoon, so about 30 hours later.  At that time, they were backed up by 200 + contracts.



I called Thursday at 1:30pm EST so I’m at about 54 hours now. Definitely sounds like something’s wrong. My guide emailed me Friday morning verifying I was in the queue, they had a backlog of 250+ contracts, and qualified for luggage as it was based on entry into queue. So who knows at this point.


----------



## Sandisw

krysib said:


> I called Thursday at 1:30pm EST so I’m at about 54 hours now. Definitely sounds like something’s wrong. My guide emailed me Friday morning verifying I was in the queue, they had a backlog of 250+ contracts, and qualified for luggage as it was based on entry into queue. So who knows at this point.



I'd give your guide a call tomorrow or email them to see if they can double check things for you....just to make sure the email is correct?


----------



## davidl81

ninafeliz said:


> Why are so many people changing their minds solely because you don’t get 2021 points?  I’m not being snarky, I genuinely want to know because I don’t understand.  I was disappointed to not get 2021 points, but it didn’t make me think twice at all about what I was going to buy.  I saw the price they came in at and planned on 300 points, when my guide said no points until Dec 2022 I was surprised with some disappointment and mild  annoyance, but never did it cross my mind to change anything because of it.


I think the current UY points help if someone is kinda on the edge of buying/not buying.  I have a December UY and I bought the AUL fire sale (300 points at $133) on Nov 31st.  Getting the 2020 points (and Disney banking them for me) is what made me decide it was worth it.  I basically said those points were worth $15pp and it made AUL a deal that was too hard to pass up.  In the super long term the one years worth of points is not a huge deal, but one of the perks of normally buying direct is getting all current UY points and that is taken away on VGF.


----------



## Paul Stupin

sethschroeder said:


> Have to be honest luggage selling out is weird. As an example we just got a mailing today about VGF being offered and it's already sold out.
> 
> By the way I laughed at the mailing since the main photo is of the 3BR and not of the new building.


Well, they said the luggage would be available for the first 500 buyers. I guess it sold out quickly. It might be annoying, but it’s not weird.


----------



## Paul Stupin

Sandisw said:


> I discussed it with my guide and he said they just don't recommend it because it is still a real estate transaction...I decided to just pay it.


Me too. Though rare, I’m sure there are situations where we’d be glad we have it.


----------



## Sandisw

Paul Stupin said:


> Well, they said the luggage would be available for the first 500 buyers. I guess it sold out quickly. It might be annoying, but it’s not weird.



I was surprised it went as fast as it did because you were only eligible for it at 125 and up.  I figured it would last a few days at least.  500 contracts of at least 125 is a lot for 24 hours!


----------



## Sandisw

Paul Stupin said:


> Me too. Though rare, I’m sure there are situations where we’d be glad we have it.



I figured I spent what I did, what is a few hundred more...my luck, I would not get it and I'd be the one with the issue!!!  LOL


----------



## Paul Stupin

Sandisw said:


> I figured I spent what I did, what is a few hundred more...my luck, I would not get it and I'd be the one with the issue!!!  LOL


That’s exactly what I thought, and then I’d be kicking myself for being penny wise and dollar foolish!


----------



## SleeplessInTO

I waived title insurance. I figured these are new points, if there’s an issue with title to them… well, yikes. We all have an issue.
The title company is not a third party as far as I know. It’s a Disney owned entity. Depending on how badly things went that I need title insurance, well, let’s just say that if I was going to obtain title insurance, I’d buy it from a true third party vs the Disney entity.


----------



## SusieQ93

Sandisw said:


> I do not see the base price going up until after non members have had a chance to buy, especially since it seems that this has really sparked sales.  DVD needed it and I would think they want to capitalize on it for a least a few months, if not more, to make up for the lost ground of the past few years.
> 
> What new members won't see is any incentive under 150 like we have as owners, and I would be surprised to see the special gift like luggage brought back for new owners...but then again, who knows!!!
> 
> So, I think you will see the new member incentives a bit less than what we current owners got, but still a nice incentive for purchasing.


Honestly, I’m just thrilled with the $207 price point. I think if they raised the base price before new members had a chance, I might be too salty and walk away  as for things like luggage, I don’t really care about stuff like that. I know people are mad about the backpacks. I’m a total minimalist, so I’m really choosy about what material things I let take up real estate in my home. A nice little dollar incentive though would make me happy.


----------



## SusieQ93

ninafeliz said:


> Why are so many people changing their minds solely because you don’t get 2021 points?  I’m not being snarky, I genuinely want to know because I don’t understand.  I was disappointed to not get 2021 points, but it didn’t make me think twice at all about what I was going to buy.  I saw the price they came in at and planned on 300 points, when my guide said no points until Dec 2022 I was surprised with some disappointment and mild  annoyance, but never did it cross my mind to change anything because of it.


Yeah, I was disappointed. It changed plans I’d come up with in my head, but I still plan to buy when it opens to non-members. It’s disappointing but definitely not a deal breaker. I mean you’re buying a 42 year contract, it’s just one year’s worth of points. But that’s me personally. Definitely was bummed though!


----------



## Song of the South

Y'all.  I read this thread last night.  Just to find the scoop, nothing else.  I had no plans to buy.

Paid my deposit at 10am. I had not followed this too much because I figured the "discount" price out of the gate would exceed my threshold. Boy, was I pleasantly surprised.

Trouble.


----------



## rubybutt

So I got a little peeved off that there were no 2021 points and not allowed fixed week in the 1 bedrooms.  I decided to try the resale market and see what was going on there.  I put in some offers for BLT at 150ish and no-one was biting.  So I went ahead and got 314 points today (I was going to get 300 so decided to just get 2 of the 157 point fixed weeks).  Guide says I have 10 days after we SIGN the documents so I will drag my feet a little with that and see if there is a resale that will play ball between now and then.  I do think that in 3 years these points will resale more than they are currently selling for, so I think the downside is minimal.  Maybe 20% haircut if I have to sell in 3-4 months (which means I would have much greater worries than DVC at that point).  Hesitating did cost me the luggage.  If anybody doesn't want there set or is getting 2 and wants to sell me a set drop me a PM.


----------



## DVCRad

DKZB said:


> I think this has been discussed but what is the risk in not taking the title insurance since we are buying direct?


None. You just don't pad Disney's bottom line.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

SleeplessInTO said:


> I waived title insurance. I figured these are new points, if there’s an issue with title to them… well, yikes. We all have an issue.
> The title company is not a third party as far as I know. It’s a Disney owned entity. Depending on how badly things went that I need title insurance, well, let’s just say that if I was going to obtain title insurance, I’d buy it from a true third party vs the Disney entity.



That is also my understanding - the title company is a Disney entity.  Title insurance protects you against the seller not holding title properly or some previous issue.  If that is happening with any direct sale from DVC then there's a whole lot of other things to worry about.


----------



## Paul Stupin

rubybutt said:


> So I got a little peeved off that there were no 2021 points and not allowed fixed week in the 1 bedrooms.  I decided to try the resale market and see what was going on there.  I put in some offers for BLT at 150ish and no-one was biting.  So I went ahead and got 314 points today (I was going to get 300 so decided to just get 2 of the 157 point fixed weeks).  Guide says I have 10 days after we SIGN the documents so I will drag my feet a little with that and see if there is a resale that will play ball between now and then.  I do think that in 3 years these points will resale more than they are currently selling for, so I think the downside is minimal.  Maybe 20% haircut if I have to sell in 3-4 months (which means I would have much greater worries than DVC at that point).  Hesitating did cost me the luggage.  If anybody doesn't want there set or is getting 2 and wants to sell me a set drop me a PM.


That’s a good plan. And I do agree that in three years the points will resale more than they are currently selling for. I bought 454 points, 2 contracts for 150 and one for 154 to even things up point total wise. I checked the fine print, under the hope that I might have an extra luggage set to give you, but the contract says that you’re only entitled to one if you buy multiple contracts in one day of 125 or over. Seems fair.

I would think now is also the time to try lowballing an offer on all those overpriced VGF resales out there.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

rubybutt said:


> So I got a little peeved off that there were no 2021 points and not allowed fixed week in the 1 bedrooms.  I decided to try the resale market and see what was going on there.  I put in some offers for BLT at 150ish and no-one was biting.  So I went ahead and got 314 points today (I was going to get 300 so decided to just get 2 of the 157 point fixed weeks).  Guide says I have 10 days after we SIGN the documents so I will drag my feet a little with that and see if there is a resale that will play ball between now and then.  I do think that in 3 years these points will resale more than they are currently selling for, so I think the downside is minimal.  Maybe 20% haircut if I have to sell in 3-4 months (which means I would have much greater worries than DVC at that point).  Hesitating did cost me the luggage.  If anybody doesn't want there set or is getting 2 and wants to sell me a set drop me a PM.



Did you see the 1BR fixed week resale contract?  Not certain if it's the week you'd be looking for but there was one yesterday.


----------



## DVChris

KAT4DISNEY said:


> Did you see the 1BR fixed week resale contract?


Looks like it’s a 1 bed standard FW 42 with October UY.


----------



## Nabas

ninafeliz said:


> Why are so many people changing their minds solely because you don’t get 2021 points?  I’m not being snarky, I genuinely want to know because I don’t understand.  I was disappointed to not get 2021 points, but it didn’t make me think twice at all about what I was going to buy.  I saw the price they came in at and planned on 300 points, when my guide said no points until Dec 2022 I was surprised with some disappointment and mild  annoyance, but never did it cross my mind to change anything because of it.


For VGF, you typically can get $20 per point on the DVC rental market.  When we bought VGF1 resale, we had enough points for our already-planned vacations.  So we rented our VGF1 2020 and 2021 points, while the seller paid the Maintenance Fee for these 2 years.  In effect, we dropped the price of what we paid by $40 per point.

Since VGF2 is not yet open, it’s completely understandable why there are no 2021 points.  But not having 2021 points does change the financial math.


----------



## jacec

Anyone get their luggage yet?


----------



## Matty B13

Cyberc1978 said:


> Title insurance or not if the title company screws up I would expect them to make it right at no additional charge to me.


Ha ha ha..... you would have to sue the title company to get them to make it right.  That is what the insurance is for, to pay for another lawyer to sue the other lawyer who screwed up and get your money back on the property that you really don't own because the first lawyer did a crappy job.


----------



## rubybutt

KAT4DISNEY said:


> Did you see the 1BR fixed week resale contract?  Not certain if it's the week you'd be looking for but there was one yesterday.


I didn't.  I will look for it.  Thanks for the heads up!


----------



## rubybutt

DVChris said:


> Looks like it’s a 1 bed standard FW 42 with October UY.


I found it.  I would have definitely put a bid in, but they stripped it.  I don't know who is buying stripped contracts, but it ain't me.


----------



## ninafeliz

Nabas said:


> For VGF, you typically can get $20 per point on the DVC rental market.  When we bought VGF1 resale, we had enough points for our already-planned vacations.  So we rented our VGF1 2020 and 2021 points, while the seller paid the Maintenance Fee for these 2 years.  In effect, we dropped the price of what we paid by $40 per point.
> 
> Since VGF2 is not yet open, it’s completely understandable why there are no 2021 points.  But not having 2021 points does change the financial math.


I guess for us I just wanted VGF points and didn’t want to buy resale, so I was buying as long as the price point didn’t come in at something ridiculous.  We hadn’t been counting on the points- had we gotten more we would have probably tried to take another trip (which would have been nice, don’t get me wrong), but when we got our points wasn’t important to us.  I wasn’t crunching numbers and doing calculations, I was just waiting to see the price per point.  Honestly since we have a December use year after I thought about it it did seem as if we should have gotten points, since it opens with half of our 2021 use year left, but since it’s take it or leave it we took it.


----------



## The Jackal

jacec said:


> Anyone get their luggage yet?


I think it says something like 12 weeks to arrive.


----------



## ninafeliz

The Jackal said:


> I think it says something like 12 weeks to arrive.


After reading this I checked my paperwork because I was curious.  It says it will be sent 45 days after purchase and could take 30 days to arrive.


----------



## HappyDisneyWife

Sandisw said:


> I just wanted to follow up on this.  I did talk to my guide and he said that I can absolutely qualify for the 300 point incentive level even though each 150 contract would be in a different UY because my DH and I are the same owners of both.
> 
> I was NOT expecting that answer and now is time to crunch numbers....again...but I am sure you can all figure out which way I am leaning!!! LOL


Really?!?!! That’s great! I’m wondering if they’d let me combine incentives for RIV & VGF across 2 UY (& I’d even agree to the paying VGF price for the RIV points since they’re currently under different incentives!)


----------



## Sandisw

HappyDisneyWife said:


> Really?!?!! That’s great! I’m wondering if they’d let me combine incentives for RIV & VGF across 2 UY (& I’d even agree to the paying VGF price for the RIV points since they’re currently under different incentives!)



Since incentives are different, I don't think they would allow that.  But, doesn't hurt to ask.  I wasn't expecting the yes but its making much so much happier to now have more VGF and less SSR!!! LOL


----------



## Yinn

This thread is massive....

I found resale information.  Which leads me to believe these are similar to Kidani/Jambo treatment.  But just to confirm.

Are the points on these basically the same as Kidani/Jambo?  Or will VGF-2 be locked into a separate bucket like BR/CCV?


----------



## disneyfan123

Yinn said:


> This thread is massive....
> 
> I found resale information.  Which leads me to believe these are similar to Kidani/Jambo treatment.  But just to confirm.
> 
> Are the points on these basically the same as Kidani/Jambo?  Or will VGF-2 be locked into a separate bucket like BR/CCV?


It’s the same as AKL, as the condo association is the same as VGF1.


----------



## sndral

Yinn said:


> This thread is massive....
> 
> I found resale information.  Which leads me to believe these are similar to Kidani/Jambo treatment.  But just to confirm.
> 
> Are the points on these basically the same as Kidani/Jambo?  Or will VGF-2 be locked into a separate bucket like BR/CCV?


Exactly like booking @ AKV - we own Kidani & have always booked Jambo at 11 months - we’ve never stayed at Kidani . Folks who’ve bought VGF2 have reported already using those points to book in VGF1 & my guide told me I could use my VGF1 points on 3/14 to book in VGF2 if I wanted.


----------



## MinBz

krysib said:


> I called Thursday at 1:30pm EST so I’m at about 54 hours now. Definitely sounds like something’s wrong. My guide emailed me Friday morning verifying I was in the queue, they had a backlog of 250+ contracts, and qualified for luggage as it was based on entry into queue. So who knows at this point.


Purchased 125 VGF2 on Friday at 1:30pm eastern time.  A little concerned that I haven’t seen the e-documents yet but so glad we have this board so I can see that I am not alone waiting.  They only charged a $1 on my credit card on Friday (placeholder).. do they actually charge the card when the paper work is ready?


----------



## nuhusky123

MinBz said:


> Purchased 125 VGF2 on Friday at 1:30pm eastern time.  A little concerned that I haven’t seen the e-documents yet but so glad we have this board so I can see that I am not alone waiting.  They only charged a $1 on my credit card on Friday (placeholder).. do they actually charge the card when the paper work is ready?


I am still waiting for updated contracts. Put my order in Thur and did 10% deposit and I then I asked them on Friday to remove title insurance which started things over for me unfortunately. They look backed up


----------



## ninafeliz

MinBz said:


> Purchased 125 VGF2 on Friday at 1:30pm eastern time.  A little concerned that I haven’t seen the e-documents yet but so glad we have this board so I can see that I am not alone waiting.  They only charged a $1 on my credit card on Friday (placeholder).. do they actually charge the card when the paper work is ready?


My guide told me that first they would charge my cc, and when that happened it would trigger the email with the documents in it.
 That’s how it happened for me, no documents and then I got a text that I had a charge in my cc a couple of hours after I talked to him, and when I next checked my email the docuSign emails were there.  I do t recall a test charge for mine though.


----------



## sndral

MinBz said:


> Purchased 125 VGF2 on Friday at 1:30pm eastern time.  A little concerned that I haven’t seen the e-documents yet but so glad we have this board so I can see that I am not alone waiting.  They only charged a $1 on my credit card on Friday (placeholder).. do they actually charge the card when the paper work is ready?


I also purchased Friday finished the call at 10 am west coast time so 1 pm east coast time. Yesterday/Saturday my edocuments arrived just before noon my time so 3 pm east coast time. I’m still waiting for the charge to show on my credit card account (so I can pay it) although my available credit is down by the amount the charge will be - so I suspect everything is progressing. We finished signing our docs last night & I’m hoping we did that correctly. My new points already show on my member dashboard, so there’s that.
I’m wondering if some take more paperwork - we’re paying cash so no need for any loan documents.


----------



## DaveNan

Yinn said:


> This thread is massive....
> 
> I found resale information.  Which leads me to believe these are similar to Kidani/Jambo treatment.  But just to confirm.
> 
> Are the points on these basically the same as Kidani/Jambo?  Or will VGF-2 be locked into a separate bucket like BR/CCV?


I know others have answered, but even “more the same” than kidani and jambo.  There will only be one option when selecting the resort, VGF, then under room types there will be deluxe studios, with 2 views (VGF1) and resort studios with 3 different views (VGF2).


----------



## TinkB278

Has anyone heard or have any guesses on when they will announce the actual vgf2 opening date?


----------



## ninafeliz

TinkB278 said:


> Has anyone heard or have any guesses on when they will announce the actual vgf2 opening date?


The paperwork had a date of mid June- maybe the 17th or 14th?  I can’t check right now but I imagine someone else knows exactly.  I think it’s a best guess at this point though?


----------



## TinkB278

ninafeliz said:


> The paperwork had a date of mid June- maybe the 17th or 14th?  I can’t check right now but I imagine someone else knows exactly.  I think it’s a best guess at this point though?


Okay, I think I do remember someone else mentioning 6/17 or so in the contract. I just don’t know it’s not solidified and public yet since booking starts next Monday.


----------



## joerohdesearring

TinkB278 said:


> Okay, I think I do remember someone else mentioning 6/17 or so in the contract. I just don’t know it’s not solidified and public yet since booking starts next Monday.


Approximate date is June 19th of this year.


----------



## Ssplashhmtn

The Jackal said:


> I think it says something like 12 weeks to arrive.


I did not think I bought my contract in time Friday to qualify for the travel set.   But the last 2 pages of my contract include a “Travel set add on acknowledgement”.  I wonder if all contracts have that?, even if you did not make the cutoff?


----------



## joerohdesearring

Ssplashhmtn said:


> I did not think I bought my contract in time Friday to qualify for the travel set.   But the last 2 pages of my contract include a “Travel set add on acknowledgement”.  I wonder if all contracts have that?, even if you did not make the cutoff?


I think so-mine included this but I didn't make the cutoff.


----------



## TinkB278

joerohdesearring said:


> Approximate date is June 19th of this year.


We’re going to be there 6/16 - 6/20 so I just want to know how approximate “approximate” is


----------



## gkrykewy

joerohdesearring said:


> I think so-mine included this but I didn't make the cutoff.



That would be weird, if they include the acknowledgement even for folks who missed the cutoff, since the language in the acknowledgment says they they are committing to send the luggage as long as you follow through with the purchase.


----------



## joerohdesearring

gkrykewy said:


> That would be weird, if they include the acknowledgement even for folks who missed the cutoff, since the language in the acknowledgment says they they are committing to send the luggage as long as you follow through with the purchase.


It does seem weird. I'm hopeful that somehow I get them but not too hopeful.


----------



## ninafeliz

Ssplashhmtn said:


> I did not think I bought my contract in time Friday to qualify for the travel set.   But the last 2 pages of my contract include a “Travel set add on acknowledgement”.  I wonder if all contracts have that?, even if you did not make the cutoff?


I  assumed that if you got the paperwork that included the 2 pages about the luggage you got the luggage. But no one told me that, so maybe I assumed wrong?  My guide said we did get the luggage both when we did our down payment and when I called yesterday to finalize the rest of the balance, and I got my edocs on Thursday early afternoon, so I do think we got it:


----------



## rubybutt

HappyDisneyWife said:


> Really?!?!! That’s great! I’m wondering if they’d let me combine incentives for RIV & VGF across 2 UY (& I’d even agree to the paying VGF price for the RIV points since they’re currently under different incentives!)


They told me know, but please let us know if it works!


----------



## Boardwalk III

CarolMN said:


> Just got my docs & points a few minutes ago..  Bought last night around 8 pm Eastern.
> 
> I'll be calling MS on 3/14 to book one of the new resort studios for the last few nights of November.



Quick question - if I want to do the same (book a resort studio for Fall) but don’t want to borrow my new VGF points from next year to do so (I’m a Dec use year), can I use current use points from my BWV contract to book a resort studio beginning March 14th (not sure which month yet, Oct or Nov, so might be 7 mos, might be 8). Also, can all DVC members begin booking Resort studios beginning March 14th?


----------



## sndral

Boardwalk III said:


> Quick question - if I want to do the same (book a resort studio for Fall) but don’t want to borrow my new VGF points from next year to do so (I’m a Dec use year), can I use current use points from my BWV contract to book a resort studio beginning March 14th (not sure which month yet, Oct or Nov, so might be 7 mos, might be 8). Also, can all DVC members begin booking Resort studios beginning March 14th?


I think not, it’s not entirely clear, but I interpret the booking announcement to mean that 3/14 is only open to booking VGF2 w/ VGF points, & that to use other resort points like your BWV points you’ll be able to book starting mid May. https://dvcnews.com/resorts/grand-floridian/news/5244-resort-studio-reservations-open-march-14-2022


----------



## CarolMN

Boardwalk III said:


> Quick question - if I want to do the same (book a resort studio for Fall) but don’t want to borrow my new VGF points from next year to do so (I’m a Dec use year), can I use current use points from my BWV contract to book a resort studio beginning March 14th (not sure which month yet, Oct or Nov, so might be 7 mos, might be 8). Also, can all DVC members begin booking Resort studios beginning March 14th?


No.  Only VGF owners (of both buildings) can book resort studios on March 14.   Non-owners have to wait until May 13.

Not positive, but I think everyone will be able to book online as of May 13.  As mentioned, owners booking the resort studios before then have to call MS to do it.

FWIW, I don't think all of the resort studios will be booked by owners before booking opens for all members on May 13, so it's probably a good gamble to wait and use your BWV points.    But YMMV.

Here's the official info from the DVC Website:

https://disneyvacationclub.disney.g...ida/villas-at-grand-floridian-resort-and-spa/


----------



## DisneyMom_3

DisneyMom_3 said:


> Anyone know if I still qualify for incentives if I split my contracts and the memberships have different names? (One in just my name that ties to the existing one I already have AND one in my name and my husband’s so he gets a blue card too.)



In case anyone else is wanting to do something similar, I WAS able to get the incentives even though I am splitting my contracts with some in just my name and some with my husband (a new member).


----------



## TinkB278

DisneyMom_3 said:


> In case anyone else is wanting to do something similar, I WAS able to get the incentives even though I am splitting my contracts with some in just my name and some with my husband (a new member).


How did it work?


----------



## DisneyMom_3

TinkB278 said:


> How did it work?


I did a 150 point contract with my husband (minimum for a new member) and then 3 - 50 points in just my name that I will add my kids to as they get older. (I had originally tried to do 3 - 100 point contracts in mine and my husband’s name, but couldn’t because one contract needs to be a minimum of 150 with a new member.)


----------



## TinkB278

DisneyMom_3 said:


> I did a 150 point contract with my husband (minimum for a new member) and then 3 - 50 points in just my name that I will add my kids to as they get older. (I had originally tried to do 3 - 100 point contracts in mine and my husband’s name, but couldn’t because one contract needs to be a minimum of 150 with a new member.)


But I mean, how did they determine which incentive level you were at since  you bought multiple resorts?

oh sorry, just realized I think you had multiple contracts at the same resort.


----------



## Cyberc1978

In search of opinions.

I already hold contracts in multiple UY’s April and June. im thinking about adding on 200 VGF In either April or June UY. Either 4 x 50 or 2 x75 and 1 x 50. I’m already a blue card member so if i need to downsize I don’t need to worry about that and smaller contracts tend to sell at a higher price. 

My April UY hold my unrestricted points and my June UY my restricted points which include my current 125 points VGF contract. This wasn’t intentional but just ended up like this. 

it would be nice to have my unrestricted points in the same membership as I then don’t need to worry about booking Rivera or future resorts From that particular membership. OTOH having all my VGF points under the same membership is also good to be able to book larger rooms without having to move points around.

im leaning towards having them in my April UY and should I ever need to book a 2br I can move the points by calling MS Same goes if I’m a few points short in either UY.


What do you think?


----------



## Marionnette

Cyberc1978 said:


> In search of opinions.
> 
> I already hold contracts in multiple UY’s April and June. im thinking about adding on 200 VGF In either April or June UY. Either 4 x 50 or 2 x75 and 1 x 50. I’m already a blue card member so if i need to downsize I don’t need to worry about that and smaller contracts tend to sell at a higher price.
> 
> My April UY hold my unrestricted points and my June UY my restricted points which include my current 125 points VGF contract. This wasn’t intentional but just ended up like this.
> 
> it would be nice to have my unrestricted points in the same membership as I then don’t need to worry about booking Rivera or future resorts From that particular membership. OTOH having all my VGF points under the same membership is also good to be able to book larger rooms without having to move points around.
> 
> im leaning towards having them in my April UY and should I ever need to book a 2br I can move the points by calling MS Same goes if I’m a few points short in either UY.
> 
> 
> What do you think?


I would add VGF2 to the existing VGF membership. This would confer blue card status to that membership, which could be important if booking Moonlight Magic during a VGF stay. It will also make booking VGF at 11 months easier if you want larger accommodations. If you feel the need to book RIV using the April UY, you can easily call MS ahead of your 7-month window to make the transfer. You just have to be very clear that the points to be transferred come from the contract with unrestricted points.


----------



## sethschroeder

CarolMN said:


> owners booking the resort studios before then have to call MS to do it.



Great another time where DVC screws up the phone lines for everyone because of something for a small group.


----------



## DisneyMom_3

TinkB278 said:


> But I mean, how did they determine which incentive level you were at since  you bought multiple resorts?
> 
> oh sorry, just realized I think you had multiple contracts at the same resort.


Yes. Multiple contracts at the same resort.


----------



## Frugal Fairy Tales

Does anyone have the VGF2 room breakdown stats handy (how many of each room... standard, lake view, theme park view)?  Thanks.


----------



## RoseGold

Cyberc1978 said:


> I already hold contracts in multiple UY’s April and June.



I'd add to the UY you don't plan on selling first.  I don't see any advantage to two UYs that close to each other and I would be moving toward consolidating.


----------



## CarolynFH

Frugal Fairy Tales said:


> Does anyone have the VGF2 room breakdown stats handy (how many of each room... standard, lake view, theme park view)?  Thanks.


This article from *DVC News *might have the information you want.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

DisneyMom_3 said:


> In case anyone else is wanting to do something similar, I WAS able to get the incentives even though I am splitting my contracts with some in just my name and some with my husband (a new member).



So DVC has flipped on that again.  I went round and round with them a few years ago.  Spoke to a manager for an hour, covered a lot of DVC selling history, and he stated the law said they couldn't do it and in the past they had been mistaken to allow it.   Now they were getting much more strict about following "the law".  Of course law doesn't determine pricing but it wasn't going to happen.  He was otherwise very up DVC.  

FWIW - my guide had said no problem.  Then the contract people came back and said no.


----------



## SleeplessInTO

Cyberc1978 said:


> In search of opinions.
> 
> I already hold contracts in multiple UY’s April and June. im thinking about adding on 200 VGF In either April or June UY. Either 4 x 50 or 2 x75 and 1 x 50. I’m already a blue card member so if i need to downsize I don’t need to worry about that and smaller contracts tend to sell at a higher price.
> 
> My April UY hold my unrestricted points and my June UY my restricted points which include my current 125 points VGF contract. This wasn’t intentional but just ended up like this.
> 
> it would be nice to have my unrestricted points in the same membership as I then don’t need to worry about booking Rivera or future resorts From that particular membership. OTOH having all my VGF points under the same membership is also good to be able to book larger rooms without having to move points around.
> 
> im leaning towards having them in my April UY and should I ever need to book a 2br I can move the points by calling MS Same goes if I’m a few points short in either UY.
> 
> 
> What do you think?


I vote for June UY.


----------



## Frugal Fairy Tales

CarolynFH said:


> This article from *DVC News *might have the information you want.


Thanks. The answer isn't in here, but I appreciate the effort


----------



## CarolynFH

Frugal Fairy Tales said:


> Thanks. The answer isn't in here, but I appreciate the effort


I thought maybe you could count the number of rooms in each colored circle (= view) and then multiply by the number of floors to get a rough number.  Until DVD declares all the rooms into the condominium association (which includes filing the floor plans as shown in the article), I'm not sure that anyone of us will know all the numbers that you want.


----------



## DisneyMom_3

KAT4DISNEY said:


> So DVC has flipped on that again.  I went round and round with them a few years ago.  Spoke to a manager for an hour, covered a lot of DVC selling history, and he stated the law said they couldn't do it and in the past they had been mistaken to allow it.   Now they were getting much more strict about following "the law".  Of course law doesn't determine pricing but it wasn't going to happen.  He was otherwise very up DVC.
> 
> FWIW - my guide had said no problem.  Then the contract people came back and said no.


I signed my documents already, so hopefully I am in the clear. 
My guide did say originally that I could have 3 - 100 point contracts, but that wasn't allowed since my husband is a new member (so one contract had to be at least 150). 
A little bummed because I would have received the luggage if I had been able to purchase on Thursday like I tried, but I'm happy to see the points in my account.


----------



## Sandisw

DisneyMom_3 said:


> I signed my documents already, so hopefully I am in the clear.
> My guide did say originally that I could have 3 - 100 point contracts, but that wasn't allowed since my husband is a new member (so one contract had to be at least 150).
> A little bummed because I would have received the luggage if I had been able to purchase on Thursday like I tried, but I'm happy to see the points in my account.



I signed both my contracts for my June UY and Dec UY that showed I got the 300 point discount as well so I think we are both good!

Congrats!


----------



## Skicks35

Called my guide today at about noon local time and received my eDocs around 8pm with the points loaded.

Weird thing is that beginning in 2025, this new contract is the only one showing in my Dashboard (this should be the third)..  Has this happened to anyone else?  Maybe the system just needs time to refresh..?  I'll call MS if it doesn't correct itself soon, but the important part is the 2022 points being loaded before 3/14.


----------



## stwaldman

Skicks35 said:


> Called my guide today at about noon local time and received my eDocs around 8pm with the points loaded.
> 
> Weird thing is that beginning in 2025, this new contract is the only one showing in my Dashboard (this should be the third)..  Has this happened to anyone else?  Maybe the system just needs time to refresh..?  I'll call MS if it doesn't correct itself soon, but the important part is the 2022 points being loaded before 3/14.
> 
> View attachment 652794
> View attachment 652795


I don't have quite the same issue, but I did notice my 2025 points were misaligned compared to my existing points. I assume it will correct itself over time, but it probably will require a call to MS to fix if you have a more pressing need since I'm not sure they'd have a system in place to catch an issue like that.


----------



## Redheadprincess

DisneyMom_3 said:


> I did a 150 point contract with my husband (minimum for a new member) and then 3 - 50 points in just my name that I will add my kids to as they get older. (I had originally tried to do 3 - 100 point contracts in mine and my husband’s name, but couldn’t because one contract needs to be a minimum of 150 with a new member.)


Do you have to pay for 4 separate closing costs when you do this?


----------



## Cyberc1978

Redheadprincess said:


> Do you have to pay for 4 separate closing costs when you do this?


Yes you do and 4 separate document fees


----------



## DisneyMom_3

Redheadprincess said:


> Do you have to pay for 4 separate closing costs when you do this?


Yes. The difference in the closing cost was minimal though. I asked for the total cost with one 300 point contract and then broken up into the multiple contracts. It was less than $60 more in closing costs. However, there is a $250 document preparation fee for each contract so that adds up. In total, it cost me a little more than $800 extra to have the four contracts instead of one. 
But, this offers me more flexibility in the future, so I think it was definitely worth it.


----------



## DisneyMom_3

Skicks35 said:


> Called my guide today at about noon local time and received my eDocs around 8pm with the points loaded.
> 
> Weird thing is that beginning in 2025, this new contract is the only one showing in my Dashboard (this should be the third)..  Has this happened to anyone else?  Maybe the system just needs time to refresh..?  I'll call MS if it doesn't correct itself soon, but the important part is the 2022 points being loaded before 3/14.
> 
> View attachment 652794
> View attachment 652795


It’s the same for me. My new VGF direct contracts show the 2025 points but my original VGF contract does not.


----------



## Sandisw

Skicks35 said:


> Called my guide today at about noon local time and received my eDocs around 8pm with the points loaded.
> 
> Weird thing is that beginning in 2025, this new contract is the only one showing in my Dashboard (this should be the third)..  Has this happened to anyone else?  Maybe the system just needs time to refresh..?  I'll call MS if it doesn't correct itself soon, but the important part is the 2022 points being loaded before 3/14.
> 
> View attachment 652794
> View attachment 652795



All my other ones are like that.  The new VGF are the only ones showing to 2025.


----------



## Lorrie7249

Skicks35 said:


> Called my guide today at about noon local time and received my eDocs around 8pm with the points loaded.
> 
> Weird thing is that beginning in 2025, this new contract is the only one showing in my Dashboard (this should be the third)..  Has this happened to anyone else?  Maybe the system just needs time to refresh..?  I'll call MS if it doesn't correct itself soon, but the important part is the 2022 points being loaded before 3/14.



i have this same issue.  I have 4 other contracts (2 each for 2 other home resorts).  My new VGF are the only ones showing points in 2025.  I figured perhaps the system only shows a set # of use years worth of points?  And since VGF doesn't have current points it would go farther?  This was what i could come up with in my mind as a potential (logical?) explanation as I stared at the screen


----------



## krysib

If paying cash-is there a deposit/earnest required?


----------



## Sandisw

krysib said:


> If paying cash-is there a deposit/earnest required?



Yes, you must pay 10% plus closing costs down.  Then the balance in 30 days, unless you ask them to spread it out for you.  They have to get approval, but mine will be split to 90 days with final payment due 6/1


----------



## stwaldman

Sandisw said:


> Yes, you must pay 10% plus closing costs down.  Then the balance in 30 days, unless you ask them to spread it out for you.  They have to get approval, but mine will be split to 90 days with final payment due 6/1


I'd just reiterate too, the deposit can be on your credit card so it's not necessarily cash out the door on day one.


----------



## Sandisw

stwaldman said:


> I'd just reiterate too, the deposit can be on your credit card so it's not necessarily cash out the door on day one.



Thanks for adding that.  I assumed people would use CC for cash.  Lol


----------



## sndral

Sandisw said:


> Yes, you must pay 10% plus closing costs down.  Then the balance in 30 days, unless you ask them to spread it out for you.  They have to get approval, but mine will be split to 90 days with final payment due 6/1





stwaldman said:


> I'd just reiterate too, the deposit can be on your credit card so it's not necessarily cash out the door on day one.


& if you have a Chase Disney Visa you get 6 months free interest on whatever balance from your DVC purchase you decide to carry.


----------



## Frugal Fairy Tales

At these prices, does VGF work for SAP?


----------



## rubybutt

Frugal Fairy Tales said:


> At these prices, does VGF work for SAP?


I think it probably does, if you buy 300.  Personally I would like to see SAP under $3.5 per year left on contract, but those are early 2021 prices.... lol.  Also the MF are the cheapest out there, or really close to the cheapest.


----------



## tidefan

Frugal Fairy Tales said:


> At these prices, does VGF work for SAP?


It still astonishes me how people are thinking this is good pricing!  Again, below is what I paid pp for our contracts:

SSR - $94
BLT - $110
GFV - $145
PVB - $160 (a bit less with incentives)


----------



## rubybutt

tidefan said:


> It still astonishes me how people are thinking this is good pricing!  Again, below is what I paid pp for our contracts:
> 
> SSR - $94
> BLT - $110
> GFV - $145
> PVB - $160 (a bit less with incentives)


I used to buy gas for less than a dollar a gallon.


----------



## tidefan

rubybutt said:


> I used to buy gas for less than a dollar a gallon.


Gas hasn't been a dollar per gallon in probably 30 years.  I bought all those listed (except for SSR, which was in 2007) within the last 10 years...

GFV has gone up $62 pp in just 8 years.


----------



## stwaldman

tidefan said:


> Gas hasn't been a dollar per gallon in probably 30 years.  I bought all those listed (except for SSR, which was in 2007) within the last 10 years...
> 
> GFV has gone up $62 pp in just 8 years.


yes, and SSR resale went up $50pp since 2015, the same timeframe, based on readily available info from the board sponsor ( i guess you can dispute their data, i'm not auditing it).  Everything is relative, and nobody can go back and buy 1500 points at OKW in 1994.

editing to add links...

https://www.dvcresalemarket.com/blog/analysis-of-dvc-resale-price-changes-2014-2016/ 

https://www.dvcresalemarket.com/blog/dvc-resale-average-sales-prices-for-february-2022/


----------



## tidefan

stwaldman said:


> yes, and SSR resale went up $50pp since 2015, the same timeframe, based on readily available info from the board sponsor ( i guess you can dispute their data, i'm not auditing it).  Everything is relative, and nobody can go back and buy 1500 points at OKW in 1994.
> 
> editing to add links...
> 
> https://www.dvcresalemarket.com/blog/analysis-of-dvc-resale-price-changes-2014-2016/
> 
> https://www.dvcresalemarket.com/blog/dvc-resale-average-sales-prices-for-february-2022/


The point I am trying to make (and apparently not very well) is that the DVC price increases are well outpacing inflation, even at today's high rates.  Granted, Disney cash rooms are the same way...


----------



## krysib

Sandisw said:


> Yes, you must pay 10% plus closing costs down.  Then the balance in 30 days, unless you ask them to spread it out for you.  They have to get approval, but mine will be split to 90 days with final payment due 6/1



thank you!
And for your payments-that is cc too?


----------



## Frugal Fairy Tales

tidefan said:


> It still astonishes me how people are thinking this is good pricing!  Again, below is what I paid pp for our contracts:
> 
> SSR - $94
> BLT - $110
> GFV - $145
> PVB - $160 (a bit less with incentives)


Unfortunately, that ship has sailed.


----------



## SleeplessInTO

Frugal Fairy Tales said:


> At these prices, does VGF work for SAP?


Thats what I'm using them for. Plus, worst case scenario I have to stay at the Grand Floridian. Such hardship!


----------



## stwaldman

tidefan said:


> The point I am trying to make (and apparently not very well) is that the DVC price increases are well outpacing inflation, even at today's high rates.  Granted, Disney cash rooms are the same way...


yeah, i mean, your last point is kinda that one that drives it though. No, disney isn't reflective of the CPI, but DVC prices rise and fall with each other and within the context of the cost of staying at a disney resort to do an on property disney vacation. I4 is always going to be full of options for people who need the economic realities outside of disney to be reflected properly.


----------



## lowlight

tidefan said:


> It still astonishes me how people are thinking this is good pricing!  Again, below is what I paid pp for our contracts:
> 
> SSR - $94
> BLT - $110
> GFV - $145
> PVB - $160 (a bit less with incentives)


Not gonna lie that BLT price makes me jealous.


----------



## Dyefrog

stwaldman said:


> yes, and SSR resale went up $50pp since 2015, the same timeframe, based on readily available info from the board sponsor ( i guess you can dispute their data, i'm not auditing it).  Everything is relative, and nobody can go back and buy 1500 points at OKW in 1994.
> 
> editing to add links...
> 
> https://www.dvcresalemarket.com/blog/analysis-of-dvc-resale-price-changes-2014-2016/
> 
> https://www.dvcresalemarket.com/blog/dvc-resale-average-sales-prices-for-february-2022/


That's interesting comparing the chart with what we are seeing currently. 3/2016 shows the average ppp at $153. Members can get direct at $179, 6 years later, effectively a 10% price increase which is far less than inflation.
I'm surprised that the resales for VGF haven't really dropped accordingly. I would have thought that they would take at least a $20 drop just considering base price alone, ignoring the incentives. Why would anyone buy a 130 point half-stripped contract for $195 on the resale market? Even if you're not a member, in a few weeks, it's quite possible you can still get direct for less.


----------



## tidefan

lowlight said:


> Not gonna lie that BLT price makes me jealous.


Our biggest regret is not buying more BLT points when we first had the chance.  In fact, DW had to talk me up to 100.  I wish we would have bought 300 back then!


----------



## tidefan

Dyefrog said:


> That's interesting comparing the chart with what we are seeing currently. 3/2016 shows the average ppp at $153. Members can get direct at $179, 6 years later, effectively a 10% price increase which is far less than inflation.
> I'm surprised that the resales for VGF haven't really dropped accordingly. I would have thought that they would take at least a $20 drop just considering base price alone, ignoring the incentives. Why would anyone buy a 130 point half-stripped contract for $195 on the resale market? Even if you're not a member, in a few weeks, it's quite possible you can still get direct for less.


But you can only get $179 at a large number of points.  Anything under 125 is still $207...


----------



## Frugal Fairy Tales

Okay, next question, does RIV work for SAP???


----------



## rubybutt

Frugal Fairy Tales said:


> Okay, next question, does RIV work for SAP???


Not really.  To high of MF.


----------



## DisneyMom_3

krysib said:


> thank you!
> And for your payments-that is cc too?


Yes! I did this same thing. My final payment is due in 90 days and it will go on my credit card that has no interest for 12 months. (Disney Visa offers 6 months, but my card through my bank earns higher rewards and has 12 months no interest.)


----------



## Redheadprincess

Dyefrog said:


> That's interesting comparing the chart with what we are seeing currently. 3/2016 shows the average ppp at $153. Members can get direct at $179, 6 years later, effectively a 10% price increase which is far less than inflation.
> I'm surprised that the resales for VGF haven't really dropped accordingly. I would have thought that they would take at least a $20 drop just considering base price alone, ignoring the incentives. Why would anyone buy a 130 point half-stripped contract for $195 on the resale market? Even if you're not a member, in a few weeks, it's quite possible you can still get direct for less.


I think I saw someone said that they were actually putting in offers for most of the Grand Floridian resale contracts and  the ones that were left the owners would not go below the 180s.  Even if the value fell, and we know it is worth much less, some owners may not be willing to sell at a lower value. I would not be surprised if people pull the contracts of the market and just rent points.


----------



## sndral

tidefan said:


> It still astonishes me how people are thinking this is good pricing!  Again, below is what I paid pp for our contracts:
> 
> SSR - $94
> BLT - $110
> GFV - $145
> PVB - $160 (a bit less with incentives)





tidefan said:


> …I bought all those listed (except for SSR, which was in 2007) within the last 10 years...
> …





lowlight said:


> Not gonna lie that BLT price makes me jealous.


Especially since (per the DVC direct price charts on Dis - https://www.disboards.com/threads/so-youve-decided-to-buy-dvc.3567366/#post-56896794) BLT opened in 2008 at $112 & by Jan. 2012 the BLT direct price was $155. I don’t know whether incentives are reflected in the historical DVC price chart.
VGF1 opened at $145 in 2013 - roughly 9 years ago & it never got any cheaper -
the $199 per point that I paid for the 125 point contract I just bought averages to a 3.6% price increase per year over 9 years. Which is higher than the very low inflation we’ve experienced over the last 9 years, but lower than the Disney inflation of the last several years IMO.
I used this calculator to determine what the current price would be if only inflation was added over the last 9 years https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/ and the result was $175.
Of course the 2013 price was for a 50 year contract and the 2022 price is for a 42 year contract - so the 2022 product has less value than the 2013 version. Also, assuming demand impacts price, VGF was very small & you really needed home resort booking to reliably stay there - doubling the size will increase the supply of studios at least & thus could lower demand going forward, so perhaps less valuable in that sense as well.
While playing with the numbers is interesting, my VGF2 points purchase like my VGF1 purchase was an emotional rather than financial decision, if numbers were driving my DVC decisions I would have bought SSR several years ago w/ it’s cheap price & at the time cheapest MFs.


----------



## DKZB

Redheadprincess said:


> I think I saw someone said that they were actually putting in offers for most of the Grand Floridian resale contracts and  the ones that were left the owners would not go below the 180s.  Even if the value fell, and we know it is worth much less, some owners may not be willing to sell at a lower value. I would not be surprised if people pull the contracts of the market and just rent points.



I spoke with a broker yesterday about this. Apparently they had a contract SELL at over $180/pp in the last few days. No idea how big it was but it seems that since this is existing members only, it hasn't impacted resale as much just yet, especially on smaller contracts. 

Ultimately, we will have to see if there is a significant reduction in incentives for new members post the initial 30 days to get a real sense of resale. Personally, I am not selling my VGF resale contract since I use that for all of my bookings .


----------



## tidefan

sndral said:


> Especially since (per the DVC direct price charts on Dis - https://www.disboards.com/threads/so-youve-decided-to-buy-dvc.3567366/#post-56896794) BLT opened in 2008 at $112 & by Jan. 2012 the BLT direct price was $155. I don’t know whether incentives are reflected in the historical DVC price chart.
> VGF1 opened at $145 in 2013 - roughly 9 years ago & it never got any cheaper -
> the $199 per point that I paid for the 125 point contract I just bought averages to a 3.6% price increase per year over 9 years. Which is higher than the very low inflation we’ve experienced over the last 9 years, but lower than the Disney inflation of the last several years IMO.
> I used this calculator to determine what the current price would be if only inflation was added over the last 9 years https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/ and the result was $175.
> Of course the 2013 price was for a 50 year contract and the 2022 price is for a 42 year contract - so the 2022 product has less value than the 2013 version. Also, assuming demand impacts price, VGF was very small & you really needed home resort booking to reliably stay there - doubling the size will increase the supply of studios at least & thus could lower demand going forward, so perhaps less valuable in that sense as well.
> While playing with the numbers is interesting, my VGF2 points purchase like my VGF1 purchase was an emotional rather than financial decision, if numbers were driving my DVC decisions I would have bought SSR several years ago w/ it’s cheap price & at the time cheapest MFs.


I wasn't sure that was correct, because we bought later at $110/pt, but then I found this:

"Although Bay Lake Tower was the first DVC resort to break the $100 per point mark, several promotions were offered that could reduce the cost of Bay Lake Tower points to the low $90s. At various times over the coming months, Disney offered cash discounts, referral incentives, developer points, and even free *Disney Cruise Line* cruises to attract buyers"

I forgot they gave away the free cruises!!!


----------



## zebsterama

Well, we bought in today -- the points are in the account.
We're official Blue Card members.

Now we've got way too many (VGF) points than we know what to do with. 
I'm sure that will change. DW is pushing for a trip to Aulani in early Jan --- and so .... it begins.
There are definitely worse things in life.

Anyhoo --  thank you very much to the many persons (and moderators) on the boards who answered all of our questions via this thread. 

We very much appreciate it!
Cheers


----------



## sndral

tidefan said:


> I wasn't sure that was correct, because we bought later at $110/pt, but then I found this:
> 
> "Although Bay Lake Tower was the first DVC resort to break the $100 per point mark, several promotions were offered that could reduce the cost of Bay Lake Tower points to the low $90s. At various times over the coming months, Disney offered cash discounts, referral incentives, developer points, and even free *Disney Cruise Line* cruises to attract buyers"
> 
> I forgot they gave away the free cruises!!!


Likely because you didn’t take one of those free cruises   Along those lines everything I’ve read says VGF opened at $145, but I thought I remembered $135 for existing members w/ incentives & kicking myself for not buying then - but maybe I’ve misremembered.


----------



## tidefan

sndral said:


> Likely because you didn’t take one of those free cruises   Along those lines everything I’ve read says VGF opened at $145, but I thought I remembered $135 for existing members w/ incentives & kicking myself for not buying then - but maybe I’ve misremembered.


Could have been for higher point values.  We only bought 100, so it was the going rate for existing members ($145).


----------



## Marionnette

tidefan said:


> Could have been for higher point values.  We only bought 100, so it was the going rate for existing members ($145).


According to DVC News:
*05/20/2013* - DVC makes an announcement on Facebook that _Grand Floridian_ sales will commence on May 23, 2013. Existing DVC members can begin buying points immediately. Price is $145/point and no incentives are offered. Non-members can start buying _Grand Floridian_ on June 19, 2013. Price will increase from $145 to $150 on June 19, 2013 for all buyers. Point charts also released on this date.​​So no break for members when VGF1 went on sale.


----------



## stlrod

That's really interesting.  According to an inflation calculator I found online $145 in 2013 would be equal to $176.07 in 2022.


----------



## Sandisw

krysib said:


> thank you!
> And for your payments-that is cc too?



Yes. They will bill my CC. I am splitting between 2 Disney visas.


----------



## princesscinderella

sndral said:


> Likely because you didn’t take one of those free cruises   Along those lines everything I’ve read says VGF opened at $145, but I thought I remembered $135 for existing members w/ incentives & kicking myself for not buying then - but maybe I’ve misremembered.


I bought VGF on day one and it was $145 with no incentives, not even a free backpack.  I have a Feb UY and didn’t get points until the following UY because it was presale before the resort was open.


----------



## tidefan

princesscinderella said:


> I bought VGF on day one and it was $145 with no incentives, not even a free backpack.  I have a Feb UY and didn’t get points until the following UY because it was presale before the resort was open.


Same.  Fortunately, we had a December UY, so we were able to book for NYE that first year.  Of course, they put us in 1221.  I learned very early on to request ANY room other than 1221...


----------



## DisneyMom_3

tidefan said:


> Same.  Fortunately, we had a December UY, so we were able to book for NYE that first year.  Of course, they put us in 1221.  I learned very early on to request ANY room other than 1221...


What’s wrong with 1221?!


----------



## ninafeliz

DisneyMom_3 said:


> What’s wrong with 1221?!


I want to know also lol!


----------



## tidefan

DisneyMom_3 said:


> What’s wrong with 1221?!


It is the infamous "Porte Cochere View" room.  This is the balcony view:


----------



## ninafeliz

tidefan said:


> It is the infamous "Porte Cochere View" room.  This is the balcony view:
> View attachment 652976


Oh my, that isn’t the best lol.  What type of room is that again?


----------



## tidefan

ninafeliz said:


> Oh my, that isn’t the best lol.  What type of room is that again?


Deluxe Studio, standard view.  We have learned to request "High Floor"...


----------



## RebelScum

Matty B13 said:


> Ha ha ha..... you would have to sue the title company to get them to make it right.  That is what the insurance is for, to pay for another lawyer to sue the other lawyer who screwed up and get your money back on the property that you really don't own because the first lawyer did a crappy job.


I can think of better things to save money on. . . Glad I opted for title insurance.


----------



## DisneyMom_3

tidefan said:


> It is the infamous "Porte Cochere View" room.  This is the balcony view:
> View attachment 652976


I looked on touringplans and there wasn’t a photo for that room, but you could see the top from the room above it, so I thought that might be the issue, but that is worse than I suspected. You really can’t see anything else!


----------



## stwaldman

related topic (but DVC general, not just VGF), how early is appropriate for room requests to member services? we loved our room from last trip and would request a similar room if possible for our next visit (same category and time of year).


----------



## CarolynFH

stwaldman said:


> related topic (but DVC general, not just VGF), how early is appropriate for room requests to member services? we loved our room from last trip and would request a similar room if possible for our next visit (same category and time of year).


I submit my requests as soon as I know what they are, which is usually shortly after our reservation is made.  I don't know whether it makes a difference, but at least I know it's done.


----------



## thank_the_phoenicians88

I'm sure I missed this in my search so I apologize for asking this again. I have a December UY. If I bought into the Floridian, would I have the 22UY points available now to book for next year? Or do I need to wait until the new rooms open in the summer to actually use those points?


----------



## Boardwalk III

thank_the_phoenicians88 said:


> I'm sure I missed this in my search so I apologize for asking this again. I have a December UY. If I bought into the Floridian, would I have the 22UY points available now to book for next year? Or do I need to wait until the new rooms open in the summer to actually use those points?



Yes, and you can also borrow them back into 2021 if you’d like (subject to the 50% borrowing rule I assume).


----------



## CarolMN

thank_the_phoenicians88 said:


> I'm sure I missed this in my search so I apologize for asking this again. I have a December UY. If I bought into the Floridian, would I have the 22UY points available now to book for next year? Or do I need to wait until the new rooms open in the summer to actually use those points?


You can book VGF1 rooms as soon as the points are in your account.  You only have to wait if you want to book one of the new resort studios.  Those can be booked for dates after mid June beginning on 3/14/22 by calling MS.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

sndral said:


> Especially since (per the DVC direct price charts on Dis - https://www.disboards.com/threads/so-youve-decided-to-buy-dvc.3567366/#post-56896794) BLT opened in 2008 at $112 & by Jan. 2012 the BLT direct price was $155. I don’t know whether incentives are reflected in the historical DVC price chart.
> VGF1 opened at $145 in 2013 - roughly 9 years ago & it never got any cheaper -
> the $199 per point that I paid for the 125 point contract I just bought averages to a 3.6% price increase per year over 9 years. Which is higher than the very low inflation we’ve experienced over the last 9 years, but lower than the Disney inflation of the last several years IMO.
> I used this calculator to determine what the current price would be if only inflation was added over the last 9 years https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/ and the result was $175.
> Of course the 2013 price was for a 50 year contract and the 2022 price is for a 42 year contract - so the 2022 product has less value than the 2013 version. Also, assuming demand impacts price, VGF was very small & you really needed home resort booking to reliably stay there - doubling the size will increase the supply of studios at least & thus could lower demand going forward, so perhaps less valuable in that sense as well.
> While playing with the numbers is interesting, my VGF2 points purchase like my VGF1 purchase was an emotional rather than financial decision, if numbers were driving my DVC decisions I would have bought SSR several years ago w/ it’s cheap price & at the time cheapest MFs.



That list just shows the base price.  Incentives changed so much it would have gone on and on and on if they had tried to include that!

Let's see - there were cash discounts off purchases - I even purchased at a couple different resorts including "sold out" to reach the levels for discounts - it wasn't quite as specific as it is now obviously.  Need 25 more points?  Oh, lets tack on a small BCV contract.     The discounted price at BLT was higher when sales started than what it would later.  Cash discounts, developer points, annual passes and cruises were all things up for grabs.  At one point they wanted to sell VGC so badly it had discounts that got it down to $88/pt!   Not certain if BLT dipped quite that low but it got down in the low 90's anyway.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

thank_the_phoenicians88 said:


> I'm sure I missed this in my search so I apologize for asking this again. I have a December UY. If I bought into the Floridian, would I have the 22UY points available now to book for next year? Or do I need to wait until the new rooms open in the summer to actually use those points?



Right now you could use them to book dates after the mid-June VGF2 opening.  You cannot use them for stays prior to that mid-June date.   You'd borrow for any dates between the mid-June opening and Dec 1, 2022 and would be restricted to borrowing up to 50% of the points.  Good to go for anything after Dec 1st.


----------



## sndral

KAT4DISNEY said:


> That list just shows the base price.  Incentives changed so much it would have gone on and on and on if they had tried to include that!
> 
> Let's see - there were cash discounts off purchases - I even purchased at a couple different resorts including "sold out" to reach the levels for discounts - it wasn't quite as specific as it is now obviously.  Need 25 more points?  Oh, lets tack on a small BCV contract.     The discounted price at BLT was higher when sales started than what it would later.  Cash discounts, developer points, annual passes and cruises were all things up for grabs.  At one point they wanted to sell VGC so badly it had discounts that got it down to $88/pt!   Not certain if BLT dipped quite that low but it got down in the low 90's anyway.


I remember when they were giving away cruises - & giving extra points - developer points, w/ SSR for example, so kind of the opposite of VGF right now, because that’s when I first started to seriously think about buying, although it took me a few years & I started w/ resale, which wasn’t as restricted then as it is now.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

Sandisw said:


> In the past, when a UY was left out, there was no concession for it.  The big difference was a new resort and when it opened.
> 
> For example, IIRC when BLT opened, June UY was the first UY to get points…2009.  Anyone buying with Feb to April UY started with 2010 points because nothing could be used until August.
> 
> VGF does already exist so technically, they can offer anything but could treat it like they do now.  If you try to buy and the don’t have the points, they won’t sell you.
> 
> Until sales start, we really just don’t know because I can’t remember how it worked with SSR and the treehouses, or if they have a completely different plan.
> 
> March 3rd will be the day to find it all out!



I finally remembered what they used to do that compensated for UY's that weren't going to receive current points.  At least for BLT and a couple others.  Developers points.   Sometimes they were an incentive but they also were a compensation for not getting the resort points.  It varied - once we got DP's that were good everywhere.  The other time they were restricted to SSR which was still in sales so DVC dipped into that pool.


----------



## sndral

thank_the_phoenicians88 said:


> I'm sure I missed this in my search so I apologize for asking this again. I have a December UY. If I bought into the Floridian, would I have the 22UY points available now to book for next year? Or do I need to wait until the new rooms open in the summer to actually use those points?


I also have a December use year, on March 14 (when booking for VGF2 will open) I can call MS & book a stay at VGF2. For stays from opening June 19, 2022 - Nov. 30, 2022, I can borrow up to 50% of my new VGF2 points. For stays between Dec. 1, 2022 - Feb. 14, 2023 + 7 days (11 months) I can use 100% of those 2022 points plus if needed I can borrow up to 50% of my 2023 points.
I already own VGF1 points, so I can dip into that pool of points on 3/14 to book VGF2 if I need (although I’m in borrowing mode w/ those so I have no 2021 points left, hence the need for more points.)
If you want to book at VGF1 you can do so as soon as your new VGF2 points load & no need to call to book - again borrowing up to 50% of your 2022 points for stays before 12/1/22 or for stays after 12/1/22 using 100% + borrowing 50%.


----------



## JoeyPeligroso

SleeplessInTO said:


> Thats what I'm using them for. Plus, worst case scenario I have to stay at the Grand Floridian. Such hardship!



GFSAP


----------



## Cyberc1978

Have Rivera pricing been better at anytime after they opened or was the best you could ever get before the opening when they had the presale for members?


----------



## Sandisw

Cyberc1978 said:


> Have Rivera pricing been better at anytime after they opened or was the best you could ever get before the opening when they had the presale for members?



The incentives right after they opened back up at the closure may have been slightly better but for the most part, early incentives are usually the best.


----------



## Paul Stupin

Redheadprincess said:


> I think I saw someone said that they were actually putting in offers for most of the Grand Floridian resale contracts and  the ones that were left the owners would not go below the 180s.  Even if the value fell, and we know it is worth much less, some owners may not be willing to sell at a lower value. I would not be surprised if people pull the contracts of the market and just rent points.


But the $180 price point still represents a $27 savings over direct. For people who don’t care about Riviera and are looking to save money on smaller point contracts, it could still be a viable option. And that $207 direct price will not last for long.


----------



## Cyberc1978

Sandisw said:


> The incentives right after they opened back up at the closure may have been slightly better but for the most part, early incentives are usually the best.


Asking because I’m still considering VGF.


----------



## thank_the_phoenicians88

I asked a broker about the GVF resale market, and he noted that most owners are waiting out to see how things unfold when the resort goes on sale to the public. There was a family selling a contract for $190 a point compared to the direct pricing of $199. I made an offer and they countered with $195 a point haha. The broker agreed they are unrealistic, but it's within their right to wait and see, which I understand!


----------



## Chuck96

I too am waiting to see how things unfold when VGF2 goes on sale to the public (me).


----------



## krysib

krysib said:


> I called Thursday at 1:30pm EST so I’m at about 54 hours now. Definitely sounds like something’s wrong. My guide emailed me Friday morning verifying I was in the queue, they had a backlog of 250+ contracts, and qualified for luggage as it was based on entry into queue. So who knows at this point.




OK-officially waiting a full week now. Guide was out over the majority of the weekend, turns out paperwork the guide filed Thursday had errors and needed more info. Got that resolved Monday and asked for title insurance removal. Can't seem to get a set of docs without errors (awaiting my third set). 

*Is this a guide problem or a QA problem?*

And now my guide is going on vacation. Beyond frustrated to go from first day purchase to having to chase down correct paperwork.


----------



## sndral

krysib said:


> OK-officially waiting a full week now. Guide was out over the majority of the weekend, turns out paperwork the guide filed Thursday had errors and needed more info. Got that resolved Monday and asked for title insurance removal. Can't seem to get a set of docs without errors (awaiting my third set). Is this a guide problem or a QA problem?
> 
> And now my guide is going on vacation.
> 
> Beyond frustrated to go from first day purchase to having to chase down correct paperwork.


Ouch, hopefully third times a charm. As irritating as it is at least QA caught the mistakes. 
I think they have been crushed, the early Thursday buyers were getting paperwork in a couple of hours, mine took over 24 hours to arrive when I bought Friday, people buying now are being told it may take 48 hours. As long as I can book a couple nights in the new building when booking opens on 3/14 I’m good.


----------



## ninafeliz

krysib said:


> OK-officially waiting a full week now. Guide was out over the majority of the weekend, turns out paperwork the guide filed Thursday had errors and needed more info. Got that resolved Monday and asked for title insurance removal. Can't seem to get a set of docs without errors (awaiting my third set).
> 
> *Is this a guide problem or a QA problem?*
> 
> And now my guide is going on vacation. Beyond frustrated to go from first day purchase to having to chase down correct paperwork.


Wow, I hope you get it sorted out and the wait isn’t impacting you-ie you weren’t planning on booking the new rooms as soon as they opened up. I also hope your guide finished it before leaving for vacation?? It sounds like just a run of bad luck combined with timing?  I talked to my guide Thursday morning around 10:15 ET, my cc was charged my down payment at about 1:00 PM, I got my edocs shortly after that, I got my points sometime between when my cc was charged and evening, we signed all of the contracts Thursday evening, I talked to my guide again friday am to let him know how to break up the remaining amount to charge and when to charge it, and then Monday I got separate emails letting me know that my documents were all final and complete- they came in over a few hours (I had 4 because we split into two 150 point contracts and had a separate one for the luggage for each set of points).  So it was very smooth and timely, I think I just snuck in before things got crazy and backed up!


----------



## krysib

sndral said:


> Ouch, hopefully third times a charm. As irritating as it is at least QA caught the mistakes.
> I think they have been crushed, the early Thursday buyers were getting paperwork in a couple of hours, mine took over 24 hours to arrive when I bought Friday, people buying now are being told it may take 48 hours. As long as I can book a couple nights in the new building when booking opens on 3/14 I’m good.



Nope- *I* caught the mistakes and had to explain it to QA. Currently awaiting the fourth revision as I caught the same issue later in the paperwork--they are saying now that they may have to void the whole contract and start over with an '002' number.


----------



## ninafeliz

krysib said:


> Nope*-I* caught the mistakes. Onto the fourth revision as I caught another--they are saying now that they may have to void the whole contract and start over with an '002' number.


What mistakes are you finding?? I did read/skim all 32 pages of the contract, but I have to admit that I pretty much assumed any contract Disney gave us would be correct!  When we did our first contract in person they just handed us an iPad and told us where to sign, we would have had to make an issue to even read the thing.  Our guide (or maybe someone else came in with the iPad for the contract part, I can’t remember for sure) just summarized what each signature was for.


----------



## krysib

ninafeliz said:


> What mistakes are you finding?? I did read/skim all 32 pages of the contract, but I have to admit that I pretty much assumed any contract Disney gave us would be correct!  When we did our first contract in person they just handed us an iPad and told us where to sign, we would have had to make an issue to even read the thing.  Our guide (or maybe someone else came in with the iPad for the contract part, I can’t remember for sure) just summarized what each signature was for.



The closing costs, deposit amount and remaining due amount are incorrect. I also asked for the final due date to reflect the payment schedule agreed to and approved. 
(I have final payment scheduled in May but the contract stated final payment due a month earlier in April).

Interestingly the dollar amounts were correct in the settlement statement but NOT in the purchase agreement.


----------



## ninafeliz

krysib said:


> The closing costs, deposit amount and remaining due amount are incorrect. I also asked for the final due date to reflect the payment schedule agreed to and approved.
> (I have final payment scheduled in May but the contract stated final payment due a month earlier in April).
> 
> Interestingly the dollar amounts were correct in the settlement statement but NOT in the purchase agreement.


Hmmm.  I did find it difficult to follow all of the pricing numbers, since they had the original price, discounts, closing costs, etc all listed and in a confusing way, and in two different locations in the contract.  However, I did see all of the numbers my guide had given me scattered throughout, and the remaining balance was correct, so I figured it was all right.  I sure hope I didn’t miss something despot looking at all of those numbers.


----------



## krysib

ninafeliz said:


> Hmmm.  I did find it difficult to follow all of the pricing numbers, since they had the original price, discounts, closing costs, etc all listed and in a confusing way, and in two different locations in the contract.  However, I did see all of the numbers my guide had given me scattered throughout, and the remaining balance was correct, so I figured it was all right.  I sure hope I didn’t miss something despot looking at all of those numbers.



I'm sure yours were-my guide didn't remove title insurance per my request and all of the numbers are off by the exact amount of title insurance. It's just been a domino effect in multiple places on the contract.

I'm sure it'll get resolved eventually and the points have been in my account since yesterday so no issue there.


----------



## Sandisw

I just toured the VGF resort studio. It is bigger than it looked in the video. It definitely would be large enough for a family without feeling cramped.

While I love a walk in shower, the bathroom could work without issue.

Still not a fan of the couch not facing the TV but on a solo trip the second bed would do as it just is a spacious room.

Definitely silly to not have put in the small microwave as the shelf would have been big enough for it.

But, I realize that with the way I do my split stays, I could book two of these and if guests don’t join me, cancel one and not spend the points for the 1 bedroom which I do t need when I am only doing one night.

I plan to try it in July! Honestly, compared to the 1 bedroom, unless you will really use the kitchen, getting connecting rooms is a nice option for a family and give lots of sleeping space.

Oh, and a new print!


----------



## dvc lover 1970

Sandisw said:


> I just toured the VGF resort studio. It is bigger than it looked in the video. It definitely would be large enough for a family without feeling cramped.
> 
> While I love a walk in shower, the bathroom could work without issue.
> 
> Still not a fan of the couch not facing the TV but on a solo trip the second bed would do as it just is a spacious room.
> 
> Definitely silly to not have put in the small microwave as the shelf would have been big enough for it.
> 
> But, I realize that with the way I do my split stays, I could book two of these and if guests don’t join me, cancel one and not spend the points for the 1 bedroom which I do t need when I am only doing one night.
> 
> I plan to try it in July! Honestly, compared to the 1 bedroom, unless you will really use the kitchen, getting connecting rooms is a nice option for a family and give lots of sleeping space.
> 
> Oh, and a new print!


Agree that the two connecting studios should give plenty of space for a family.


----------



## DisneyMom_3

Sandisw said:


> I just toured the VGF resort studio. It is bigger than it looked in the video. It definitely would be large enough for a family without feeling cramped.
> 
> While I love a walk in shower, the bathroom could work without issue.
> 
> Still not a fan of the couch not facing the TV but on a solo trip the second bed would do as it just is a spacious room.
> 
> Definitely silly to not have put in the small microwave as the shelf would have been big enough for it.
> 
> But, I realize that with the way I do my split stays, I could book two of these and if guests don’t join me, cancel one and not spend the points for the 1 bedroom which I do t need when I am only doing one night.
> 
> I plan to try it in July! Honestly, compared to the 1 bedroom, unless you will really use the kitchen, getting connecting rooms is a nice option for a family and give lots of sleeping space.
> 
> Oh, and a new print!


Yay! I have the GV waitlisted for our two other nights and booked a 2 bedroom for the rest of my family for those nights, but only one was available. I’ve been trying to decide if we want to squeeze into a 1 BR or book two resort studios. My parents and sister will have a refrigerator if we need it to hold any leftover food from our GV days. I was leaning towards the resort studios just to try something new.  You’ve convinced me to go for it! Looks like I will be among those calling in on the 14th.


----------



## DisneyMom_3

Sandisw said:


> I just toured the VGF resort studio. It is bigger than it looked in the video. It definitely would be large enough for a family without feeling cramped.
> 
> While I love a walk in shower, the bathroom could work without issue.
> 
> Still not a fan of the couch not facing the TV but on a solo trip the second bed would do as it just is a spacious room.
> 
> Definitely silly to not have put in the small microwave as the shelf would have been big enough for it.
> 
> But, I realize that with the way I do my split stays, I could book two of these and if guests don’t join me, cancel one and not spend the points for the 1 bedroom which I do t need when I am only doing one night.
> 
> I plan to try it in July! Honestly, compared to the 1 bedroom, unless you will really use the kitchen, getting connecting rooms is a nice option for a family and give lots of sleeping space.
> 
> Oh, and a new print!


Is that the actual print or is it the same as the VGF1 print?


----------



## Boardwalk III

ninafeliz said:


> Hmmm.  I did find it difficult to follow all of the pricing numbers, since they had the original price, discounts, closing costs, etc all listed and in a confusing way, and in two different locations in the contract.  However, I did see all of the numbers my guide had given me scattered throughout, and the remaining balance was correct, so I figured it was all right.  I sure hope I didn’t miss something despot looking at all of those numbers.



Agreed! I haven’t purchased  a DVC contract in over 20 years but was a banker for most of my career, and the way they broke down the purchase by adding an extra $1000 dollars onto the purchase price and then subtracting it back throughout different categories in random amounts  (listed as developer credits) was super confusing. I actually emailed quality assurance and called my guide when I thought it was incorrect, but then I figured out the logic, and realized total amt due was correct. When I called my guide about it he didn’t even have a breakdown to be able to go through it with me. Am thinking they should have filled the guides in on the method so they could explain to members. Asking too much?


----------



## Boardwalk III

Sandisw said:


> I just toured the VGF resort studio. It is bigger than it looked in the video. It definitely would be large enough for a family without feeling cramped.
> 
> While I love a walk in shower, the bathroom could work without issue.
> 
> Still not a fan of the couch not facing the TV but on a solo trip the second bed would do as it just is a spacious room.
> 
> Definitely silly to not have put in the small microwave as the shelf would have been big enough for it.
> 
> But, I realize that with the way I do my split stays, I could book two of these and if guests don’t join me, cancel one and not spend the points for the 1 bedroom which I do t need when I am only doing one night.
> 
> I plan to try it in July! Honestly, compared to the 1 bedroom, unless you will really use the kitchen, getting connecting rooms is a nice option for a family and give lots of sleeping space.
> 
> Oh, and a new print!



This is the exact reason why I canceled the contract that I bought on Saturday and re-wrote for more points on Monday! Having the flexibility of canceling one of those two rooms if travel mates fall through is genius. 

Don’t get me wrong, we’ve had more than 20 years of DVC @ BWV and almost always get a 2BR. Love having the kitchen, laundry and LR with the right group of people. But it’s not always needed now that I’m older, or for a shorter or a split stay. And to have the flexibility of booking 2 rooms with 4 real beds (for less points than a 2BR), and the ability to cancel one if plans change is a big advantage for me.


----------



## TinkB278

Sandisw said:


> I just toured the VGF resort studio. It is bigger than it looked in the video. It definitely would be large enough for a family without feeling cramped.
> 
> While I love a walk in shower, the bathroom could work without issue.
> 
> Still not a fan of the couch not facing the TV but on a solo trip the second bed would do as it just is a spacious room.
> 
> Definitely silly to not have put in the small microwave as the shelf would have been big enough for it.
> 
> But, I realize that with the way I do my split stays, I could book two of these and if guests don’t join me, cancel one and not spend the points for the 1 bedroom which I do t need when I am only doing one night.
> 
> I plan to try it in July! Honestly, compared to the 1 bedroom, unless you will really use the kitchen, getting connecting rooms is a nice option for a family and give lots of sleeping space.
> 
> Oh, and a new print!


So overall you liked it?!


----------



## Kaufeegurl

Sandisw said:


> getting connecting rooms is a nice option for a family and give lots of sleeping space.



Are families with children (or anyone) guaranteed connecting rooms if u book 2 and request?


----------



## dvc lover 1970

Kaufeegurl said:


> Are families with children (or anyone) guaranteed connecting rooms if u book 2 and request?


I think most of the rooms there are connecting - of the 101 declared in think 82 were connecting, carrying that logic to the other 100, that would mean that around 164 of 200 rooms - so that is most of the rooms


----------



## ninafeliz

Kaufeegurl said:


> Are families with children (or anyone) guaranteed connecting rooms if u book 2 and request?


No, I saw it said there would be a lot of connecting rooms available but not guaranteed.


----------



## Marionnette

dvc lover 1970 said:


> I think most of the rooms there are connecting


Of the 101 rooms that have been declared into DVC, 82 will have connecting doors according to DVCNews.com. Judging from the floor plan that they posted on their website, the "tower" rooms and "bay window" rooms will be dedicated studios with no doors connecting to another studio.


----------



## ninafeliz

Sandisw said:


> I just toured the VGF resort studio. It is bigger than it looked in the video. It definitely would be large enough for a family without feeling cramped.
> 
> While I love a walk in shower, the bathroom could work without issue.
> 
> Still not a fan of the couch not facing the TV but on a solo trip the second bed would do as it just is a spacious room.
> 
> Definitely silly to not have put in the small microwave as the shelf would have been big enough for it.
> 
> But, I realize that with the way I do my split stays, I could book two of these and if guests don’t join me, cancel one and not spend the points for the 1 bedroom which I do t need when I am only doing one night.
> 
> I plan to try it in July! Honestly, compared to the 1 bedroom, unless you will really use the kitchen, getting connecting rooms is a nice option for a family and give lots of sleeping space.
> 
> Oh, and a new print!


Oh Man, I want the new print!  When we toured 2 weeks ago we got the same Riviera one we already had.


----------



## eMoneyBug

How many new VGF2 points will be sold?

I recently read RIV has sold 2.6M of the 6.7M and is about 80K per month, so of course assuming that continues will be 4+ years.  I'm sure the pace will slow down though.

Aulani has 11.5M points, does anyone know approximately how many have sold and the approx month sold is?


----------



## ninafeliz

Marionnette said:


> Of the 101 rooms that have been declared into DVC, 82 will have connecting doors according to DVCNews.com. Judging from the floor plan that they posted on their website, the "tower" rooms and "bay window" rooms will be dedicated studios with no doors connecting to another studio.


Someone posted a link in this thread to the article not too long ago, it showed the floor plan of one of the floors and which rooms were connecting, non connecting, old turret rooms, and the ones without balconies (at least on the top floor a couple didn’t have balconies).  I think there were 4 or 5 different floor plans for the new rooms.


----------



## DKZB

krysib said:


> I'm sure yours were-my guide didn't remove title insurance per my request and all of the numbers are off by the exact amount of title insurance. It's just been a domino effect in multiple places on the contract.
> 
> I'm sure it'll get resolved eventually and the points have been in my account since yesterday so no issue there.



I had a similar issue. When I asked AGAIN to have the title insurance removed, he told me that he never knew it was optional! They also messed up the developer credits. I’m now 24 hours and no revised docs. Personally I’m not in a hurry so they will get here when they get here.


----------



## ninafeliz

DKZB said:


> I had a similar issue. When I asked AGAIN to have the title insurance removed, he told me that he never knew it was optional! They also messed up the developer credits. I’m now 24 hours and no revised docs. Personally I’m not in a hurry so they will get here when they get here.


I had been slightly regretting not having them take title insurance off after reading a bit here.    I ended up being happy I left it alone since it really wasn’t that much, and you just never know.  After reading the issues a couple of you have had removing it I’m doubly glad I just left well enough alone!


----------



## JoeyPeligroso

DKZB said:


> I had a similar issue. When I asked AGAIN to have the title insurance removed, he told me that he never knew it was optional! They also messed up the developer credits. I’m now 24 hours and no revised docs. Personally I’m not in a hurry so they will get here when they get here.



My developer credits were not properly allocated between my multiple contracts either, but apparently QC caught it and rewrote the contracts prior to sending them to me.  This resulted in a delay in the delivery of the contracts.  My guide did a good job of letting me know about the error.


----------



## JoeyPeligroso

Boardwalk III said:


> Agreed! I haven’t purchased  a DVC contract in over 20 years but was a banker for most of my career, and the way they broke down the purchase by adding an extra $1000 dollars onto the purchase price and then subtracting it back throughout different categories in random amounts  (listed as developer credits) was super confusing. I actually emailed quality assurance and called my guide when I thought it was incorrect, but then I figured out the logic, and realized total amt due was correct. When I called my guide about it he didn’t even have a breakdown to be able to go through it with me. Am thinking they should have filled the guides in on the method so they could explain to members. Asking too much?



Not asking too much at all!

It was very hard to read the contracts and confirm the numbers as they way that the allocated developer credits does not seem correct at first glance.  Also agree, the amount I ultimately paid for the contracts was correct on each of my contracts despite the unusual way the numbers were documented.  I'm waiting on a callback from my guide to confirm that the unusual way of documenting credits is indeed proper.


----------



## smmora

JoeyPeligroso said:


> My developer credits were not properly allocated between my multiple contracts either, but apparently QC caught it and rewrote the contracts prior to sending them to me.  This resulted in a delay in the delivery of the contracts.  My guide did a good job of letting me know about the error.


What are the developer credits?


----------



## JoeyPeligroso

smmora said:


> What are the developer credits?



For these contracts, they are essentially the discounts applied to the current advertised price of $207 per point.


----------



## Einstein509

Sandisw said:


> I just toured the VGF resort studio. It is bigger than it looked in the video. It definitely would be large enough for a family without feeling cramped.
> 
> While I love a walk in shower, the bathroom could work without issue.
> 
> Still not a fan of the couch not facing the TV but on a solo trip the second bed would do as it just is a spacious room.
> 
> Definitely silly to not have put in the small microwave as the shelf would have been big enough for it.
> 
> But, I realize that with the way I do my split stays, I could book two of these and if guests don’t join me, cancel one and not spend the points for the 1 bedroom which I do t need when I am only doing one night.
> 
> I plan to try it in July! Honestly, compared to the 1 bedroom, unless you will really use the kitchen, getting connecting rooms is a nice option for a family and give lots of sleeping space.
> 
> Oh, and a new print!


Is the print the "gift" they give you for coming to take a look at the room?


----------



## Nabas

Einstein509 said:


> Is the print the "gift" they give you for coming to take a look at the room?


Yes, this is it:



We went because we genuinely wanted to see the room, didn't even think to ask for this as we were leaving.  But the guide handed these to us anyway.


----------



## DKZB

I spoke with my guide 3 days ago to correct the documents to remove the title insurance and correct the credits. I emailed yesterday to confirm it was actually submitted. I got an email back today saying it was submitted but would take a few more days for me to receive revised docs!

I'm not in a rush but is it really taking 5 days to get docs?


----------



## tidefan

Nabas said:


> Yes, this is it:
> 
> View attachment 653332
> 
> We went because we genuinely wanted to see the room, didn't even think to ask for this as we were leaving.  But the guide handed these to us anyway.


Yep.  We got them when we walked through as well.  Wasn’t overly impressed with the new rooms.


----------



## lorie13

For smaller contracts under 125 points the the $27 savings might be worth it, but there are two other factors to look at that will reduce that amount. Resale closing costs are higher than direct contracts by $2 - $3 per point and most sellers want to be reimbursed for dues for the 2022 year if the contract is coming with 2022 points, which is $7.01 per point. With a direct purchase your 2022 dues are pro-rated to when the new rooms open (middle of June) or if your UY is later, say August, you only pay for 5 months of the 12 months. So at maximum you will only pay half of this years dues, that is another $3.50 per point. The $27 now could be reduced to $20 a point. Staying at Riviera my not be a care at this time, but it is every new resort going forward, this would include the new Disneyland resort for next year and what ever else is in the future plans. A person than must ask themselves is a less than 10% savings worth it for a resale purchase? Making a choice to buy direct or resale just takes doing ones due diligence and then making the best decision for oneself and family. 



Paul Stupin said:


> But the $180 price point still represents a $27 savings over direct. For people who don’t care about Riviera and are looking to save money on smaller point contracts, it could still be a viable option. And that $207 direct price will not last for long.


----------



## Disneycouple99

Just received documents from Disney 6 days after talking to our guide.


----------



## TinkB278

Can someone who has toured the new rooms comment on how blue the walls are? Some photos show them as a nice grey blue, but others show robin egg blue. I don’t know if I can stomach the rooms if it is robins egg.


----------



## JoeyPeligroso

DKZB said:


> I spoke with my guide 3 days ago to correct the documents to remove the title insurance and correct the credits. I emailed yesterday to confirm it was actually submitted. I got an email back today saying it was submitted but would take a few more days for me to receive revised docs!
> 
> I'm not in a rush but is it really taking 5 days to get docs?



5 days seems a bit long. It may be good to get in touch with someone from Quality Assurance if you are not confident that the documents are being prepared appropriately.


----------



## Paul Stupin

lorie13 said:


> For smaller contracts under 125 points the the $27 savings might be worth it, but there are two other factors to look at that will reduce that amount. Resale closing costs are higher than direct contracts by $2 - $3 per point and most sellers want to be reimbursed for dues for the 2022 year if the contract is coming with 2022 points, which is $7.01 per point. With a direct purchase your 2022 dues are pro-rated to when the new rooms open (middle of June) or if your UY is later, say August, you only pay for 5 months of the 12 months. So at maximum you will only pay half of this years dues, that is another $3.50 per point. The $27 now could be reduced to $20 a point. Staying at Riviera my not be a care at this time, but it is every new resort going forward, this would include the new Disneyland resort for next year and what ever else is in the future plans. A person than must ask themselves is a less than 10% savings worth it for a resale purchase? Making a choice to buy direct or resale just takes doing ones due diligence and then making the best decision for oneself and family.



I actually agree with you.  For me, at these current direct prices, the relatively small resale savings isn’t worth it. I love staying at Riviera, and that ability alone is for me worth the direct price. I also value the ability to stay at future DVC resorts, and don’t want to get shut out of the 2042 resorts when they’re remodeled and resold in twenty years either.


----------



## Sandisw

TinkB278 said:


> Can someone who has toured the new rooms comment on how blue the walls are? Some photos show them as a nice grey blue, but others show robin egg blue. I don’t know if I can stomach the rooms if it is robins egg.



I thought it had a grayish hint to it as I have a lighter blue in my own home and  it’s not that.


----------



## TinkB278

Paul Stupin said:


> I actually agree with you.  For me, at these current direct prices, the relatively small resale savings isn’t worth it. I love staying at Riviera, and that ability alone is for me worth the direct price. I also value the ability to stay at future DVC resorts, and don’t want to get shut out of the 2042 resorts when they’re remodeled and resold in twenty years either.


I also agree with this. Resale prices have gotten so high that it’s not worth saving just a few thousand to me and having restricted points.


----------



## Red Dog Run

thank_the_phoenicians88 said:


> I asked a broker about the GVF resale market, and he noted that most owners are waiting out to see how things unfold when the resort goes on sale to the public. There was a family selling a contract for $190 a point compared to the direct pricing of $199. I made an offer and they countered with $195 a point haha. The broker agreed they are unrealistic, but it's within their right to wait and see, which I understand!


I offered 175 on a GF March for 100 pts.  Was told the owner was not interested in reducing the contract at this time.  
I then went direct for 125 before the incentives are gone.  At least these direct are usable at RIV and new resorts.  Already had a blue card from OKW direct when 100 pts was the requirement.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

TinkB278 said:


> I also agree with this. Resale prices have gotten so high that it’s not worth saving just a few thousand to me and having restricted points.



Resale has always been about about saving "a few thousand".  If it's important then it remains the same.   I'd actually say it's more important as DVC direct has gotten higher and higher.   There are contributing factors about where you want to stay etc but the savings part has not changed.


----------



## gkrykewy

Went back to our guide today and updated our purchase from 150 points to 200 points for the stronger incentive, since he said we would still keep our travel set .


----------



## lorie13

Are they re drafting the contract, or adding another contract.  We did 125 point contract this week and now I am thinking should have gone to 200 points.



gkrykewy said:


> Went back to our guide today and updated our purchase from 150 points to 200 points for the stronger incentive, since he said we would still keep our travel set .


----------



## TinkB278

KAT4DISNEY said:


> Resale has always been about about saving "a few thousand".  If it's important then it remains the same.   I'd actually say it's more important as DVC direct has gotten higher and higher.   There are contributing factors about where you want to stay etc but the savings part has not changed.


Well if I remember right, a lot of brokers advertise a savings of around 40% on resale. For the resorts I’ve been looking at, the savings is nowhere close to 40%. A few years ago the difference between resale and direct seemed to be much larger.


----------



## gkrykewy

lorie13 said:


> Are they re drafting the contract, or adding another contract.  We did 125 point contract this week and now I am thinking should have gone to 200 points.



They are voiding and redoing the contract.


----------



## SleeplessInTO

TinkB278 said:


> Well if I remember right, a lot of brokers advertise a savings of around 40% on resale. For the resorts I’ve been looking at, the savings is nowhere close to 40%. A few years ago the difference between resale and direct seemed to be much larger.


I believe they come up with the 40% based on the direct price from Disney, with no incentives. This is based on one broker's Feb 2022 average sale prices. 
https://www.dvcresalemarket.com/blog/dvc-resale-average-sales-prices-for-february-2022/


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

TinkB278 said:


> Well if I remember right, a lot of brokers advertise a savings of around 40% on resale. For the resorts I’ve been looking at, the savings is nowhere close to 40%. A few years ago the difference between resale and direct seemed to be much larger.



I guess that's the difference as I have never looked at brokers marketing or taken that as my guide of what's of value or not.  If that's what they said they may be better at marketing than DVC.  Or just stole it from DVC since a lot of them are past "guides".   If that ever was true it would have been on a select resort. Maybe two. The only 40% marketing I ever noted over and over came from DVC marketing- - save 40% over hotel cash prices. Even that varied from resort to resort and of course villa size comparison.

In the end the % doesn't really matter because as prices get higher the same percentage just means an even larger $$$ savings so the % can go lower and still save the same actual amount.  That is what I look at.  The actual $$$ savings.  A couple thousand is still significant IMO especially if you plan on the same resort most of the time.

I see next to no change in evaluating resale to direct. If it's a resort in current sales it's going to be close and probably better to buy direct but still do the calculations as the longer the resorts been in active sales it may still be a significant savings.
For most other resorts not in active sales - looking purely at the financial side - you're going to have some decent to significant savings over direct on large contracts.  Especially since DVC started pricing certain resorts with their "we really don't want to sell these to you" prices.  And small contracts can make sense direct vs resale but I'd still compare the savings.


----------



## thank_the_phoenicians88

I think it all depends on the resort in question. I just added to my membership with 175 points at PVB. I paid $175 a point for a fully loaded contract. Direct is $250 a point. So I saved 43% going resale over direct. The resale I had for BCV was a 59% savings. The savings definitely exist, I think the messaging gets lost when the resort is in active direct sales and you have owners selling who are holding strong to the pre-direct pricing (e.g. GFV1 sellers who started pre sales).


----------



## TinkB278

thank_the_phoenicians88 said:


> I think it all depends on the resort in question. I just added to my membership with 175 points at PVB. I paid $175 a point for a fully loaded contract. Direct is $250 a point. So I saved 43% going resale over direct. The resale I had for BCV was a 59% savings. The savings definitely exist, I think the messaging gets lost when the resort is in active direct sales and you have owners selling who are holding strong to the pre-direct pricing (e.g. GFV1 sellers who started pre sales).


Exactly. The only resort I’ve had interest in buying resale was AKV and want a smaller contract between 75-100 points. Some small AKV contracts are going for between $150-160 a point. Direct is $186 per point. So to me, on a small contract, saving that few thousand is not worth losing unrestricted access to my points.


----------



## gkrykewy

thank_the_phoenicians88 said:


> I think it all depends on the resort in question. I just added to my membership with 175 points at PVB. I paid $175 a point for a fully loaded contract. Direct is $250 a point. So I saved 43% going resale over direct. The resale I had for BCV was a 59% savings. The savings definitely exist, I think the messaging gets lost when the resort is in active direct sales and you have owners selling who are holding strong to the pre-direct pricing (e.g. GFV1 sellers who started pre sales).



175 vs 250 is a 30% savings. Still decent though if you don’t value being able to stay at Riviera! For us, we love Riviera, so that’s the ultimate direct perk.


----------



## wnielsen1

thank_the_phoenicians88 said:


> I think it all depends on the resort in question. I just added to my membership with 175 points at PVB. I paid $175 a point for a fully loaded contract. Direct is $250 a point. So I saved 43% going resale over direct. The resale I had for BCV was a 59% savings. The savings definitely exist, I think the messaging gets lost when the resort is in active direct sales and you have owners selling who are holding strong to the pre-direct pricing (e.g. GFV1 sellers who started pre sales).


Poly is currently $241 if you add-on 175 points.  So roughly a 27% savings ($66/$241) vs direct before considering closing costs which tend to be a little higher with resale.  Still, a significant savings.


----------



## thank_the_phoenicians88

wnielsen1 said:


> Poly is currently $241 if you add-on 175 points.  So roughly a 27% savings ($66/$241) vs direct before considering closing costs which tend to be a little higher with resale.  Still, a significant savings.


Your math is wrong, but I didn’t know it’s $241. (241-175)/175 = 38% - so close to the 40% they advertise!


----------



## wnielsen1

thank_the_phoenicians88 said:


> Your math is wrong, but I didn’t know it’s $241. (241-175)/175 = 38%.


Take 38% of 241 and then subtract that result from 241.  You sure don't get 175.  I do this for a living.


----------



## thank_the_phoenicians88

wnielsen1 said:


> Take 38% of 241 and then subtract that result from 241.  You sure don't get 175.  I do this for a living.


 Then you’re doing it wrong haha. Take $175 and multiple by 1.38. What do you get?


----------



## Paul Stupin

thank_the_phoenicians88 said:


> I think it all depends on the resort in question. I just added to my membership with 175 points at PVB. I paid $175 a point for a fully loaded contract. Direct is $250 a point. So I saved 43% going resale over direct. The resale I had for BCV was a 59% savings. The savings definitely exist, I think the messaging gets lost when the resort is in active direct sales and you have owners selling who are holding strong to the pre-direct pricing (e.g. GFV1 sellers who started pre sales).



As some rumors suggest, Disney could very well decide to build a new DLT-esque Poly tower (pricier than a hotel conversion but still cheaper than an entirely new resort) with an opening price close to VGF’s $179 pp. Personally, I think it’s going to happen, especially considering the sales of VGF2 and buyers’ enthusiasm surrounding new rooms at a beloved monorail resort. Seems like kind of a no brainer to me.

The $241 Poly direct price point is meant to discourage buyers and direct them elsewhere, just like last year’s $255 price point for VGF when it was sold out. I think the Poly expansion will be announced in a year or two when VGF sells out, so, for me, I’d rather wait and buy direct.


----------



## thank_the_phoenicians88

wnielsen1 said:


> Take 38% of 241 and then subtract that result from 241.  You sure don't get 175.  I do this for a living.


Let’s say the price was $2 last year and $4 today. Your math suggests the percent change is 50% ((4-2)/4). It’s not. It’s 100% ((4-2)/2). $4 is a 100% increase compared to $2. Not trying to argue, just saying that resale has good savings!


----------



## wnielsen1

thank_the_phoenicians88 said:


> Let’s say the price was $2 last year and $4 today. Your math suggests the percent change is 50% ((4-2)/4). It’s not. It’s 100% ((4-2)/2). $4 is a 100% increase compared to $2. Not trying to argue, just saying that resale has good savings!


Direct DVC is $4.  Resale DVC is $2.  What is your savings?  100%?  I don't think so.  A 100% discount implies you get it for free.


----------



## thank_the_phoenicians88

wnielsen1 said:


> Direct DVC is $4.  Resale DVC is $2.  What is your savings?  100%?  I don't think so.  A 100% discount implies you get it for free.


Good point. So todays prices are 100% more today than yesterday. So your formula is partially correct, but it’s ((2-4)/4 = -50%. A 50% savings relative to direct prices. Right?


----------



## wnielsen1

thank_the_phoenicians88 said:


> Good point. So todays prices are 100% more today than yesterday. So your formula is partially correct, but it’s ((2-4)/4 = -50%. A 50% savings relative to direct prices. Right?


Both of these statements are true (let's use our easy $4 vs. $2 example above):
A - The savings for buying resale vs direct is 50%
B - Direct costs 100% more than resale

When the brokers advertise savings, they are using A (and they put it this way to stay out of trouble: "*up to *x% savings").


----------



## thank_the_phoenicians88

wnielsen1 said:


> Both of these statements are true (let's use our easy $4 vs. $2 example above):
> A - The savings for buying resale vs direct is 50%
> B - Direct costs 100% more than resale
> 
> When the brokers advertise savings, they are using A (and they put it this way to stay out of trouble: "*up to *x% savings").


Now we just need to convince Disney to execute on these price strategies haha.


----------



## rubybutt

wnielsen1 said:


> Both of these statements are true (let's use our easy $4 vs. $2 example above):
> A - The savings for buying resale vs direct is 50%
> B - Direct costs 100% more than resale
> 
> When the brokers advertise savings, they are using A (and they put it this way to stay out of trouble: "*up to *x% savings").


You were very nice to explain it to him/her instead of name calling.


----------



## thank_the_phoenicians88

rubybutt said:


> You were very nice to explain it to him/her instead of name calling.


Luckily most on this group are kind. I watch Facebook DVC and other Disney groups and some people there can be awful.


----------



## Theta

wnielsen1 said:


> Poly is currently $241 if you add-on 175 points.  So roughly a 27% savings ($66/$241) vs direct before considering closing costs which tend to be a little higher with resale.  Still, a significant savings.



This math is correct




thank_the_phoenicians88 said:


> Your math is wrong, but I didn’t know it’s $241. (241-175)/175 = 38% - so close to the 40% they advertise!



This math is incorrect.

************

The calculate the percentage of savings off the *original amount* it is the difference/*original amount* (241-175)/*241* which is 27% savings off the* original amount of 241.*


----------



## sndral

Paul Stupin said:


> As some rumors suggest, Disney could very well decide to build a new DLT-esque Poly tower (pricier than a hotel conversion but still cheaper than an entirely new resort) with an opening price close to VGF’s $179 pp. Personally, I think it’s going to happen, especially considering the sales of VGF2 and buyers’ enthusiasm surrounding new rooms at a beloved monorail resort. Seems like kind of a no brainer to me.
> 
> The $241 Poly direct price point is meant to discourage buyers and direct them elsewhere, just like last year’s $255 price point for VGF when it was sold out. I think the Poly expansion will be announced in a year or two when VGF sells out, so, for me, I’d rather wait and buy direct.


When rumors were flying about a Poly DVC I remember seeing diagrams somewhere (Tikiman maybe?) showing a tower & a winding River/lagoon like pool throughout the grounds as part of the plan, instead they went all studio hotel room conversions + bungalows, so I wouldn’t say it was impossible, but I can think of lots of reasons that they won’t, starting w/ quick hotel room flips are a lot cheaper than new construction.

edited to add link showing plans w/ 2 towers & much bigger pool never built @ Poly http://www.bigfloridacountry.com/polynesianDVC/DVCconcept.jpg


----------



## thank_the_phoenicians88

Theta said:


> This math is correct
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This math is incorrect.
> 
> ************
> 
> The calculate the percentage of savings off the *original amount* it is the difference/*original amount* (241-175)/*241* which is 27% savings off the* original amount of 241.*


Thanks! My math is right, but used in the wrong context as it’s the percent more paid for direct vs. resale. Your formula is close, but it should be (175-241)/241. The negative indicates savings.


----------



## thank_the_phoenicians88

sndral said:


> When rumors were flying about a Poly DVC I remember seeing diagrams somewhere (Tikiman maybe?) showing a tower & a winding River/lagoon like pool throughout the grounds as part of the plan, instead they went all studio hotel room conversions + bungalows, so I wouldn’t say it was impossible, but I can think of lots of reasons that they won’t, starting w/ quick hotel room flips are a lot cheaper than new construction.


 I'd think it's possible, but not likely. I would think we would see Reflections come back into the picture before Disney would develop a new building on Polynesian.


----------



## Paul Stupin

sndral said:


> When rumors were flying about a Poly DVC I remember seeing diagrams somewhere (Tikiman maybe?) showing a tower & a winding River/lagoon like pool throughout the grounds as part of the plan, instead they went all studio hotel room conversions + bungalows, so I wouldn’t say it was impossible, but I can think of lots of reasons that they won’t, starting w/ quick hotel room flips are a lot cheaper than new construction.
> 
> edited to add link showing plans w/ 2 towers & much bigger pool never built @ Poly http://www.bigfloridacountry.com/polynesianDVC/DVCconcept.jpg


Interesting plans! For me, it’s hard to imagine additional hotel room flips that would generate the sales and excitement of VGF2. It won’t be a 2042 resort. A Wilderness Lodge conversion would be boring. Animal Kingdom doesn’t need more rooms. VGF was perfect because the original building was small, there was pent up demand, and Grand Floridian is iconic. I guess they could do Yacht Club, but it would be a lesser sibling to Boardwalk. And building an entirely new resort, or resurrecting Reflections, would be monumentally expensive.

Cheaper to add a tower to an existing, beloved resort, a la what is happening with DLT.   So that’s why I think DVC will take a close look at Poly.


----------



## DisneyMom_3

Paul Stupin said:


> Interesting plans! For me, it’s hard to imagine additional hotel room flips that would generate the sales and excitement of VGF2. It won’t be a 2042 resort. A Wilderness Lodge conversion would be boring. Animal Kingdom doesn’t need more rooms. VGF was perfect because the original building was small, there was pent up demand, and Grand Floridian is iconic. I guess they could do Yacht Club, but it would be a lesser sibling to Boardwalk. And building an entirely new resort, or resurrecting Reflections, would be monumentally expensive.
> 
> Cheaper to add a tower to an existing, beloved resort, a la what is happening with DLT.   So that’s why I think DVC will take a close look at Poly.


My vote is for Yacht Club! Although I wouldn’t mind larger villas that aren’t a ridiculous amount of points at Poly either.
I think the main reason for the GF conversion was that those rooms weren’t being booked anywhere close to capacity along with the fact that the original VGF was so small. As the parks opened back up, people were being upgraded from the Values to GF!
I don’t think Poly and Yacht have the same issue because they didn’t seem to always have availability when GF did, but I don’t really know. I do hope they decide to convert at least part of Yacht Club though. It seems like an easy choice and they wouldn’t have to add it to the same association as BCV so the end date could be more in line with the later resorts. 
A split stay at a MK resort and Epcot resort that are within walking distance to the parks would be my preference probably almost every trip!


----------



## Red Dog Run

DKZB said:


> I spoke with my guide 3 days ago to correct the documents to remove the title insurance and correct the credits. I emailed yesterday to confirm it was actually submitted. I got an email back today saying it was submitted but would take a few more days for me to receive revised docs!
> 
> I'm not in a rush but is it really taking 5 days to get docs?


I got my docs this morn from Thursday sales. 3 days


----------



## thank_the_phoenicians88

My guide said they are getting caught up on the new contracts, so hopefully they move quickly! I did find out that you have to be in the system for 48 hours prior to booking at the new building - so anyone buying today won’t be able to make a reservation until Tuesday at the earliest.


----------



## DKZB

DKZB said:


> I spoke with my guide 3 days ago to correct the documents to remove the title insurance and correct the credits. I emailed yesterday to confirm it was actually submitted. I got an email back today saying it was submitted but would take a few more days for me to receive revised docs!
> 
> I'm not in a rush but is it really taking 5 days to get docs?


Today will be 6 days since I requested new docs. I’ve received several reminders to sign the old incorrect ones but no new docs!


----------



## mrsap

*Resort Studio Opening Date JUNE 20, 2022*

*The newest rooms at Villas at Disney's Grand Floridian Resort & Spa are now available for booking with an anticipated grand opening of June 20, 2022.*

Beginning *March 14, 2022*, owners at the Grand Floridian can book the Resort Studios for any check in date from June 20 through February 14, 2023, with the 11-month booking window applicable going forward. Owners can also book any other DVC resort up to 7 months prior to arrival. This applies to both DVC members who recently added points at the Grand Floridian and to those who have owned the resort dating back to its 2013 inception. The original stand-alone DVC building and the new Resort Studios located in Big Pine Key are all part of the same condo association with owners having equal rights to reserve all rooms.

Beginning on *May 13, 2022*, reservations for the Resort Studios will move online with access open to all DVC members. On that date, owners of other DVC properties will be able to Resort Studios for arrival dates between June 20 and December 13, with future dates subject to the 7 month window.


----------



## SL6827

So Riveria and the Grand (direct) are the same price?  Or not?  If so, is this unprecedented?


----------



## stwaldman

SL6827 said:


> So Riveria and the Grand (direct) are the same price?  Or not?  If so, is this unprecedented?


they are the same with slightly different incentives, which is pretty consistent with their pricing for scheme for non-sold out resorts for a little while now


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

SL6827 said:


> So Riveria and the Grand (direct) are the same price?  Or not?  If so, is this unprecedented?



There are same base and very close on incentives and is completely normal with past history.


----------



## BrianLo

It seems they are on top of direct purchases again. I initiated the phone call less than two hours ago (recent resale so never had a guide). Phone call was about 20 minutes total. Contract Docusign about 90 minutes after hanging up. Points are loaded and I'm still under 2 hours from 'cold calling'.

I had a very pleasant 45 day turnaround resale purchase for SSR points over the holidays, but obviously this was also exceedingly smooth.


----------



## Tbella

thank_the_phoenicians88 said:


> My guide said they are getting caught up on the new contracts, so hopefully they move quickly! I did find out that you have to be in the system for 48 hours prior to booking at the new building - so anyone buying today won’t be able to make a reservation until Tuesday at the earliest.



I purchased a GF2 contract yesterday and was able to call and book the GF2 studios today.


----------



## hbg1

Talked to my guide over the weekend and bought our 200 point add on 
Going to call MS tomorrow morning and try to get a resort studio for the summer, can't wait!


----------



## DGbuckeye

I recently bought a small resale DVC contract (50 points at BLT) will I be able to buy a small (25-50points) direct VGF2 contract once my membership is activated? Or do you have to be a full direct member?


----------



## Sandisw

DGbuckeye said:


> I recently bought a small resale DVC contract (50 points at BLT) will I be able to buy a small (25-50points) direct VGF2 contract once my membership is activated? Or do you have to be a full direct member?



Once you are an owner, you can add on the minimum for owners, which is 50 points for VGF.

You won’t be eligible for membership extras until you reach 150 direct points, but can definitely buy less than that.

Those 50 points would be eligible for booking RIV and future resorts, even though your resale points can not.


----------



## Marionnette

DGbuckeye said:


> I recently bought a small resale DVC contract (50 points at BLT) will I be able to buy a small (25-50points) direct VGF2 contract once my membership is activated? Or do you have to be a full direct member?


The minimum purchase for VGF2 is 50 points for any member regardless of whether your existing points are resale or direct.


----------



## nuhusky123

So with poly2 I will want to be as far away from construction as I can get. In my view while poly2 is being built. Big pine key is the far superior building


----------



## Paul Stupin

nuhusky123 said:


> So with poly2 I will want to be as far away from construction as I can get. In my view while poly2 is being built. Big pine key is the far superior building
> 
> 
> 
> You‘re probably right! On the plus side, it looks to me that the construction won’t be visible from the lake view side, which we love.
> 
> Though I way prefer VGF over Poly, an argument can be made that Disney should have given DVC owners the same courtesy that they’re giving the general public / new buyers, and should have announced the Poly expansion before VGF2 sales. For owners who bought that first week, the ten day window to nullify the deal has already passed. It doesn’t seem either fair or right for those VGF buyers who would have rather waited for Poly.
Click to expand...


----------



## nuhusky123

poly2 probably is going to decrease the resale value of gfv for quite sometime if not permanently


----------



## Paul Stupin

nuhusky123 said:


> poly2 probably is going to decrease the resale value of gfv for quite sometime if not permanently


Why?


----------



## nuhusky123

Paul Stupin said:


> Why?


Couple reasons from my perspective

big draw of vgf was location and walkable to mk. Poly2 is close enough to vgf1 to be considered a sister building. Location now a wash

big draw of vgf was the better mix of rooms over poly which pretty much just had studios as the water bungalow required millionaire owners 

poly2 will be brand new, vgf isn’t 

vgf2 will be on sale for a few years and until sold out resale prices have to be below direct 

vgf resale points cannot be priced above vgf direct or poly2 direct

. For the reasons stated above as a new buyer will you buy pol2 or vgf resale. Either way resale prices will be directly controled by both gfv2 and then eventually poly2 direct pricing


----------



## Paul Stupin

nuhusky123 said:


> Couple reasons from my perspective
> 
> big draw of vgf was location and walkable to mk. Poly2 is close enough to vgf1 to be considered a sister building. Location now a wash
> 
> big draw of vgf was the better mix of rooms over poly which pretty much just had studios as the water bungalow required millionaire owners
> 
> poly2 will be brand new, vgf isn’t
> 
> vgf2 will be on sale for a few years and until sold out resale prices have to be below direct
> 
> vgf resale points cannot be priced above vgf direct or poly2 direct
> 
> . For the reasons stated above as a new buyer will you buy pol2 or vgf resale. Either way resale prices will be directly controled by both gfv2 and then eventually poly2 direct pricing


If VGF is sold out by then, it’ll be the most economical choice by far. It’s also kind of an apples to oranges thing I think.


----------



## iluvthsgam

If you are a member already with a blue card from buying points long ago, and considering the VGF2 points are the same association as VGF1, is there any reason to buy direct? If you can get a resale contract at better or lower rates now? Or guess to wait to see if resale goes lower? Either way, if I can find a resale which is lower price there is no reason to go direct, right?


----------



## stwaldman

iluvthsgam said:


> If you are a member already with a blue card from buying points long ago, and considering the VGF2 points are the same association as VGF1, is there any reason to buy direct? If you can get a resale contract at better or lower rates now? Or guess to wait to see if resale goes lower? Either way, if I can find a resale which is lower price there is no reason to go direct, right?


the only reason would be having all of your points be "unrestricted" rather than a mix of restricted and unrestricted. How much value you place on that is entirely personal and based on your usage/travel plans


----------



## Sandisw

iluvthsgam said:


> If you are a member already with a blue card from buying points long ago, and considering the VGF2 points are the same association as VGF1, is there any reason to buy direct? If you can get a resale contract at better or lower rates now? Or guess to wait to see if resale goes lower? Either way, if I can find a resale which is lower price there is no reason to go direct, right?



Thetwo different things. The blue card and use of points.

Blue card only gets you membership extras. It does not impact where the points can be used.

Resale points are restricted from use at RIV and future resorts, which could include the new Poly building.

So, if you don’t care about using these new points anywhere but the L14 resorts, resale makes sense.

If you want the option to use them, along with the ones you own, for RIV and future, then direct makes sense.

I didn’t like restricted points so I sold because we do enjoy RIV and want the option for the future.


----------



## iluvthsgam

@Sandisw and @stwaldman - many thanks! Both excellent points and something I did not remember to consider. So essentially it matters for just Riviera and (possibly/likely) future resorts, including Poly2.


----------



## DKZB

DKZB said:


> Today will be 6 days since I requested new docs. I’ve received several reminders to sign the old incorrect ones but no new docs!



Finally got my revised docs yesterday (7 days after I requested them)...They corrected one issue and made another mistake. Back to the drawing board!


----------



## DKZB

iluvthsgam said:


> @Sandisw and @stwaldman - many thanks! Both excellent points and something I did not remember to consider. So essentially it matters for just Riviera and (possibly/likely) future resorts, including Poly2.



MAYBE Poly 2 and LIKELY Disney Land Tower. 

Speculation on Poly 2 is that it may be the same condo association (Like VGF and VGF2). If that is the case, there probably won't be restrictions on resale points.


----------



## iluvthsgam

stwaldman said:


> the only reason would be having all of your points be "unrestricted" rather than a mix of restricted and unrestricted. How much value you place on that is entirely personal and based on your usage/travel plans



Also, this only matters for me, right? Because if I sell the points (whether I buy points direct or resale) then the new owner is considered resale and the restrictions will apply to them no matter what, yes?


----------



## Sandisw

DKZB said:


> MAYBE Poly 2 and LIKELY Disney Land Tower.
> 
> Speculation on Poly 2 is that it may be the same condo association (Like VGF and VGF2). If that is the case, there probably won't be restrictions on resale points.



Very true, but those considering resale may be better off assuming the worst and deciding based on that.

Of course, DVC vague announcement is stirring things up just like they wanted! Lol


----------



## Sandisw

iluvthsgam said:


> Also, this only matters for me, right? Because if I sell the points (whether I buy points direct or resale) then the new owner is considered resale and the restrictions will apply to them no matter what, yes?



The resale points bought now would be restricted to L14 for your use.  If you go to sell them, the new buyer will be under whatever restrictions are in place at that time.

Right now, we know for sure you can’t use them at RIV and any future resorts.

What we don’t know for sure is how DVD will define DLT and the new Poly tower.  We assume DLT will be considered new and restricted to resale contracts bought since 2019.

The new Poly tower is a mystery and it could go either way.  So, as I said, IMO, assume it will be new and restricted from use with the new points.

This way, if it ends up in the same association as the current Poly, resale points will be eligible there!


----------



## iluvthsgam

Sandisw said:


> The resale points bought now would be restricted to L14 for your use.  If you go to sell them, the new buyer will be under whatever restrictions are in place at that time.
> 
> Right now, we know for sure you can’t use them at RIV and any future resorts.
> 
> What we don’t know for sure is how DVD will define DLT and the new Poly tower.  We assume DLT will be considered new and restricted to resale contracts bought since 2019.
> 
> The new Poly tower is a mystery and it could go either way.  So, as I said, IMO, assume it will be new and restricted from use with the new points.
> 
> This way, if it ends up in the same association as the current Poly, resale points will be eligible there!



Thanks! Just for clarity. Assuming in 2 years no changes are made to resale restrictions, if I go to sell a direct contract I bought versus a resale contract I bought - the person I sell to is in the same boat. It doesn't matter whether I am selling to them a direct contract or resale contract. Yes?


----------



## Sandisw

iluvthsgam said:


> Thanks! Just for clarity. Assuming in 2 years no changes are made to resale restrictions, if I go to sell a direct contract I bought versus a resale contract I bought - the person I sell to is in the same boat. It doesn't matter whether I am selling to them a direct contract or resale contract. Yes?



Correct!  Any contract bought resale, no matter how the current owner acquired it, will carry whatever restrictions are in place at that time?

So, my direct RIV and resale RIV would both sell with the exact same restrictions, only good at RIV, even though for me, I get to use the direct at all.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

iluvthsgam said:


> @Sandisw and @stwaldman - many thanks! Both excellent points and something I did not remember to consider. So essentially it matters for just Riviera and (possibly/likely) future resorts, including Poly2.



My bet is the new building at Poly will roll into the existing association so it won't have the distinction.
DLH maybe - depending on if they decide to continue down the path they selected with Riviera.


----------



## redboat45

Are the new studios the same points as the current studios?


----------



## Nabas

redboat45 said:


> Are the new studios the same points as the current studios?


Yes, with the caveat that in addition to having standard and lake view rooms (like VGF1), the new building includes a “theme park view” category of room, which is more points per night than a lake view room.


----------



## Royal Consort

Sandisw said:


> What we don’t know for sure is how DVD will define DLT and the new Poly tower.  We assume DLT will be considered new and restricted to resale contracts bought since 2019.
> 
> The new Poly tower is a mystery and it could go either way.  So, as I said, IMO, assume it will be new and restricted from use with the new points.



I find it ridiculous that DVC is having a bet either way on restrictions. It blows my mind they are selling two completely different products simultaneously. They need to sort this out but I am not convinced _they _even know what they're doing. They're going to have to make a concrete decision soon. The flip flopping inconsistency belies bureaucratic chaos.


----------



## Sandisw

Royal Consort said:


> I find it ridiculous that DVC is having a bet either way on restrictions. It blows my mind they are selling two completely different products simultaneously. They need to sort this out but I am not convinced _they _even know what they're doing. They're going to have to make a concrete decision soon. The flip flopping inconsistency belies bureaucratic chaos.



I do agree they may need to give an answer soon. I am not sure that I see any flip flopping because the VGF was a quick turn around that made sense to keep the same.

I am not saying this won’t be the same but based on what appeared to be their long game prior to the pandemic, this being new would seem to get that plan back on track.

But they definitely wanted to cause chaos by not clearly defining it yesterday..whether because they have not yet decided or want the option to change it if they have.


----------



## Paul Stupin

Sandisw said:


> I do agree they may need to give an answer soon. I am not sure that I see any flip flopping because the VGF was a quick turn around that made sense to keep the same.
> 
> I am not saying this won’t be the same but based on what appeared to be their long game prior to the pandemic, this being new would seem to get that plan back on track.
> 
> But they definitely wanted to cause chaos by not clearly defining it yesterday..whether because they have not yet decided or want the option to change it if they have.


I think they'll stay on track with the resale restrictions, especially on big fancy new construction. Why wouldn't they? (Rhetorical question!)


----------



## DKZB

Paul Stupin said:


> I think they'll stay on track with the resale restrictions, especially on big fancy new construction. Why wouldn't they? (Rhetorical question!)



Only reason is if they think Riviera isn't selling well because of it!


----------



## Paul Stupin

DKZB said:


> Only reason is if they think Riviera isn't selling well because of it!


Of course there are different points of view on this, but I truly don’t think the restrictions are a factor in Riviera sales.


----------



## krysib

krysib said:


> OK-officially waiting a full week now. Guide was out over the majority of the weekend, turns out paperwork the guide filed Thursday had errors and needed more info. Got that resolved Monday and asked for title insurance removal. Can't seem to get a set of docs without errors (awaiting my third fifth set).




two weeks in and just found out they have to rewrite my contract and start over. So just FYI-if anyone else's guide neglected to remove title insurance they will have to rewrite. Sounds like others are having issues as well so wanted to share my experience.


----------



## Paul Stupin

krysib said:


> two weeks in and just found out they have to rewrite my contract and start over. So just FYI-if anyone else's guide neglected to remove title insurance they will have to rewrite. Sounds like others are having issues as well so wanted to share my experience.


All this hassle to remove title insurance doesn‘t seem worth it.


----------



## ninafeliz

Paul Stupin said:


> All this hassle to remove title insurance doesn‘t seem worth it.


I have to agree. I know every penny counts, but wasn’t it like $170 on a ~$55,000 contract (on our case)?  I’m very glad I read about removing it too late to even try to do so.  We are long paid and done, and got the luggage as well lol.


----------



## krysib

ninafeliz said:


> I have to agree. I know every penny counts, but wasn’t it like $170 on a ~$55,000 contract (on our case)?  I’m very glad I read about removing it too late to even try to do so.  We are long paid and done, and got the luggage as well lol.



Yep! Had I read someone’s experience like this I would probably feel the same. Live and learn…
Oh well-I’ve got the luggage set and have had points in the account for a week. Eventually they will figure out how to bill me for it!


----------



## gkrykewy

krysib said:


> Yep! Had I read someone’s experience like this I would probably feel the same. Live and learn…
> Oh well-I’ve got the luggage set and have had points in the account for a week. Eventually they will figure out how to bill me for it!



did you receive the luggage already??


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

Paul Stupin said:


> All this hassle to remove title insurance doesn‘t seem worth it.



And Disney loves every extra penny that people fling their way. 

Intentional or not one of the simplest thing for a business to do to get a few extra bucks is make something a little difficult for a customer to change that in the grand scheme of things "is not much".  

In that regard it's well worth it to have them do what you have asked.


----------



## ninafeliz

KAT4DISNEY said:


> And Disney loves every extra penny that people fling their way.
> 
> Intentional or not one of the simplest thing for a business to do to get a few extra bucks is make something a little difficult for a customer to change that in the grand scheme of things "is not much".
> 
> In that regard it's well worth it to have them do what you have asked.


So true.  Didn't one of the fast food chains get in trouble a long time ago because they were shorting each burger patty by something tiny like 0.25 oz, and it saved them million?  However, I'm going to try to believe that this is on there for a reason, not that they are trying to rip everyone off.  I do tend to be someone who over insures, so it fits me that I wouldn't fight to get an insurance off of my bill lol.  I always think I'll be the one who has a problem and needs whatever I chose not to pay for...


----------



## Paul Stupin

KAT4DISNEY said:


> And Disney loves every extra penny that people fling their way.
> 
> Intentional or not one of the simplest thing for a business to do to get a few extra bucks is make something a little difficult for a customer to change that in the grand scheme of things "is not much".
> 
> In that regard it's well worth it to have them do what you have asked.


Normally I’d agree, but if I wanted the luggage (which I do) and needed the points relatively quickly to book a vacation, I’d sooner pay the fee rather than have the entire process delayed for weeks.


----------



## krysib

gkrykewy said:


> did you receive the luggage already??



Caught me-poor choice of words. I have signed the “travel set” addendum within the contract documents and have been assured I was one of the first 500.

Time will tell!


----------



## Redheadprincess

Paul Stupin said:


> I think they'll stay on track with the resale restrictions, especially on big fancy new construction. Why wouldn't they? (Rhetorical question!)


There is the thing about those bungalows not getting used. If they roll the points into the original Poly association they can redistribute them.


----------



## Sandisw

Redheadprincess said:


> There is the thing about those bungalows not getting used. If they roll the points into the original Poly association they can redistribute them.



There are some who believe they can not.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

ninafeliz said:


> So true.  Didn't one of the fast food chains get in trouble a long time ago because they were shorting each burger patty by something tiny like 0.25 oz, and it saved them million?  However, I'm going to try to believe that this is on there for a reason, not that they are trying to rip everyone off.  I do tend to be someone who over insures, so it fits me that I wouldn't fight to get an insurance off of my bill lol.  I always think I'll be the one who has a problem and needs whatever I chose not to pay for...



It doesn't take much for a large corporation to squeeze out a lot of extra income.  The title insurance is part of most real estate transactions but not necessary in this case when purchase a timeshare from the developer that is eventually going to get it all back.   What shouldn't be difficult is for them to remove it.  Some of the resale brokers used to have you opt in on it but it seems like recently it's more of an opt out.



Paul Stupin said:


> Normally I’d agree, but if I wanted the luggage (which I do) and needed the points relatively quickly to book a vacation, I’d sooner pay the fee rather than have the entire process delayed for weeks.



It won't be risking or removing the luggage to get it corrected.   

DVC needs to do better at something like this.


----------



## SleeplessInTO

Paul Stupin said:


> Normally I’d agree, but if I wanted the luggage (which I do) and needed the points relatively quickly to book a vacation, I’d sooner pay the fee rather than have the entire process delayed for weeks.


The rewrite of the contract did not impact luggage or points. They messed up the title insurance on mine and sent me new documents 4 or 5 days later. I still get the luggage and my points were in my account all along.


----------



## Matty B13

When do current direct purchase incentives expire?


----------



## Nabas

Matty B13 said:


> When do current direct purchase incentives expire?


March 30


----------



## CarolMN

KAT4DISNEY said:


> The title insurance is part of most real estate transactions but not necessary in this case when purchase a timeshare from the developer that is eventually going to get it all back.


I'm not so sure this is a true statement.   There is still risk involved with a developer sale.

Title insurance also protects against things like clerical errors and mistakes, i.e., a typo in the unit number or processing errors by the registering county.  Perhaps those would not be so hard to correct if caught right away, but as time passes, it could make for a lengthy and possibly expensive process.  For me, it's worth the relatively small extra $$ amount for peace of mind.


----------



## Sandisw

CarolMN said:


> I'm not so sure this is a true statement.   There is still risk involved with a developer sale.
> 
> Title insurance also protects against things like clerical errors and mistakes, i.e., a typo in the unit number or processing errors by the registering county.  Perhaps those would not be so hard to correct if caught right away, but as time passes, it could make for a lengthy and possibly expensive process.  For me, it's worth the relatively small extra $$ amount for peace of mind.



Exactly why I decided against removing it.  In the end, it would be my luck to have issues!

Given what I spent, over time, that extra $340 (for the two different contracts) wasn't enough for me to worry.  That worked out to about $1/point extra.


----------



## Chuck96

I think I'll lean towards the title insurance for the same reason.  If I get it, it will be a waste of money and go unused.  If I don't, inevitably something will happen and I'll wish I had it a few years from now.

I do have a few questions for the diligent group that continues to examine this thread.  I'll be purchasing when the opportunity makes its way to the non-members, at the end of the month.  I've asked these questions in years past, but as the rubber is about to meet the proverbial road, I'm going to review my thinking with smarter and more experienced members.

1) I'm buying in at 150-160.  Been looking at resale for years, but wife wanted direct and we'd already planned (but not reserved) a vacation this December (pre-Christmas).  Getting in VGF with "reasonable" direct pricing is a great opportunity.  We plan about 5-6 days every year, or a nicer room every other year (if banked points allow).  DS headed to college in the fall (only child), so some trips may be just us, and some will be with him and whoever he eventually cons into participation.  150-160 gets me 5 days (and change) in Travel Periods 1-5.  

2) I think a September USE YEAR makes the most sense.  We typically go in SEPT/OCT (and maybe NOV, going forward) or after Christmas (JAN/early FEB).  I expect in the years to come that a few summer trips will happen, but never late JUL or AUG.  I'd rather eat points than walk around Orlando in AUG.  SEPT allows me to bank points as late as 30 APRIL, correct?  Still some risk for summer trips, but that's ok.

3) Wife is travelling starting on 1 April, so paperwork may take a few days on our end.  Is that any sort of issue?  I'll just have to fax or email.  Do they allow digital signatures, or is it pen and paper and snail mailing manually signed documents?  Not a big deal, just planning out.

4) Base price point.  I am in at $207/point base.  That's what is is this month.  Do they typically raise prices when points go on sale to new members?  I understand the incentives will change (and not be quite a good), but I'm sort of counting on that $207.  Should I be more wary?

Thanks for any advice or suggestions.

Very Respectfully,
Chuck


----------



## smmora

Chuck96 said:


> 3) Wife is travelling starting on 1 April, so paperwork may take a few days on our end.  Is that any sort of issue?  I'll just have to fax or email.  Do they allow digital signatures, or is it pen and paper and snail mailing manually signed documents?  Not a big deal, just planning out.



Was completely digital with DocuSign


----------



## wnielsen1

Sandisw said:


> There are some who believe they can not.


I'm one of those, but they'll do what they want (treehouses).


----------



## AvidDisReader

wnielsen1 said:


> I'm one of those, but they'll do what they want (treehouses).


There is a nice post on another site that goes into this issue.  The poster clearly believes that they need to "dilute" the points on the bungalows, so this new tower will definitely be part of existing Poly DVC.   I originally felt that this would be a good way to kick the decision on future resorts having restrictions down the road, and still do (yes I am aware of the new Disneyland tower, but in my opinion that is a totally different circumstance since there are so few DVC rooms available in California).


----------



## DVChris

Chuck96 said:


> 4) Base price point.  I am in at $207/point base.  That's what is is this month.  Do they typically raise prices when points go on sale to new members?  I understand the incentives will change (and not be quite a good), but I'm sort of counting on that $207.  Should I be more wary?


My CM told me the base price will stay the same at $207 when it goes on sale to non-members. Incentives will differ.


----------



## hbg1

Getting caught up on the thread but figured I'd also add in that I booked our first stay for July 

Going to try and go to Moonlight Magic, we'll see if we luck out with getting in but if not we've got a lake view resort studio to look forward to.


----------



## sndral

Chuck96 said:


> …
> 3) Wife is travelling starting on 1 April, so paperwork may take a few days on our end.  Is that any sort of issue?  I'll just have to fax or email.  Do they allow digital signatures, or is it pen and paper and snail mailing manually signed documents?  Not a big deal, just planning out.
> 
> 4) Base price point.  I am in at $207/point base.  That's what is is this month.  Do they typically raise prices when points go on sale to new members?  I understand the incentives will change (and not be quite a good), but I'm sort of counting on that $207.  Should I be more wary?
> 
> Thanks for any advice or suggestions.
> 
> Very Respectfully,
> Chuck


You will receive the documents via email & can sign them electronically w/ DocuSign. My son who is on the title of my DVC contracts lives in Massachusetts, I live in California & we each got a set of DocuSign documents sent to our individual emails, we each signed in our respective states & returned the documents electronically. Assuming your wife has email access on her travels she’ll have no problem signing while traveling, just make sure your guide notes both email addresses. I paid cash & thus didn’t have to notarize a mortgage document, although I understand you can do that online as well if you’re using Disney financing.
The member add on incentives effective 3/31 will be $6 off at the 150 point level https://dvcnews.com/dvc-program/financial/news-34867/5242-grand-floridian-pricing-debuts but I don’t know whether they’ll raise the base price or offer different incentives to new members.
I’d probably go ahead and make contact w/ DVC now & have a preliminary conversation w/ whichever guide they assigned to me letting them know that I was ready to buy when sales open to the public.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

CarolMN said:


> I'm not so sure this is a true statement.   There is still risk involved with a developer sale.
> 
> Title insurance also protects against things like clerical errors and mistakes, i.e., a typo in the unit number or processing errors by the registering county.  Perhaps those would not be so hard to correct if caught right away, but as time passes, it could make for a lengthy and possibly expensive process.  For me, it's worth the relatively small extra $$ amount for peace of mind.



In my experience, typically the most difficult part about a title correction is finding the party again.   IF they can't be found or are unresponsive then the process gets lengthier.   There may also a difference with DVC in the representative use (points) vs actual unit occupancy.   Any clerical error beyond names are likely to just continue to the end of life of the product and it never will actually matter.  There are various forms of title issues - encumbered ownership too which won't be applicable here.  What you mention is a technicality that is an easy fix and would likely just be DVC's responsibility as developer (and their own title company subsidiary).  Dean used to be particularly keen on not requiring title insurance from the Developer and that one could even do their own search for resale.  I had not considered previously but I do agree with his reasoning and with my own experience with a couple of title issues.  Online access has changed the ability to search down title info as well.

Then consider the odds.  Pretty small.  You know who they are.  You will know where they are.  They are the ones who would have made the mistake as it is their own subsidiary title company.

And I've _never_ seen a report from anyone of having issues with or needing to correct a title with DVC that wasn't done immediately when they purchased.  Have you?  So at this point I still don't consider it to be false info because of the overall Disney control of the DVC timeshare.  Property ownership, sales, titling.


----------



## nuhusky123

I’d wager if the first month or two of gfv sales to the public goes well base price will go up


----------



## KTownRaider

Chuck96 said:


> SEPT allows me to bank points as late as 30 APRIL, correct?


Correct.  Banking date is always 8 months after the start of your use year.


----------



## Chuck96

Thanks for that advice.  I have reached out to a guide we discussed DVC with in the past, so we are lined up and on his call list.


----------



## CarolynFH

Chuck96 said:


> 2) I think a September USE YEAR makes the most sense. We typically go in SEPT/OCT (and maybe NOV, going forward) or after Christmas (JAN/early FEB). I expect in the years to come that a few summer trips will happen, but never late JUL or AUG. I'd rather eat points than walk around Orlando in AUG. SEPT allows me to bank points as late as 30 APRIL, correct? Still some risk for summer trips, but that's ok.


We have a September UY and in 20+ years have booked exactly one DVC stay in May-August.  When we bought, we were routinely traveling in November, then it was mostly March, due to kids' school schedules.  Now we're empty nesters, we like January and February for low point costs and (relatively) low park attendance, although we sometimes book October through early December.  So I think September would be an excellent UY for you.


----------



## iluvthsgam

AvidDisReader said:


> There is a nice post on another site that goes into this issue.  The poster clearly believes that they need to "dilute" the points on the bungalows, so this new tower will definitely be part of existing Poly DVC.   I originally felt that this would be a good way to kick the decision on future resorts having restrictions down the road, and still do (yes I am aware of the new Disneyland tower, but in my opinion that is a totally different circumstance since there are so few DVC rooms available in California).



Any chance you can share that link? Be curious to read more about it.


----------



## Paul Stupin

Sandisw said:


> Exactly why I decided against removing it.  In the end, it would be my luck to have issues!
> 
> Given what I spent, over time, that extra $340 (for the two different contracts) wasn't enough for me to worry.  That worked out to about $1/point extra.


Totally agree.


----------



## mamaofsix

Just got back from a 2 week trip and did the DVC tour of both VGF and RIV.   We have never been at either resort. Grand Floridian was FAR and away our favorite of the two.  Better location/transportation options and way more dining/shopping options.  We also liked the "vibe," lobby and grounds much more.    We would be one of those families who would buy in only wanting to use the 1 or 2 bedrooms, though, not the new Resort Studios unless we were desperate.   So, current owners who are concerned that the added Resort Studios will make the deluxe and multi-bedroom suites more scarce are likely correct.  We'd be buying in with no intention of ever booking the resort studios.

I'm glad we toured them both, as going into it I was sure I would like RIV better.  However, the rooms and grounds didn't "wow" us like the refurbished rooms at GFV.  We rode the Skyliner and were surprised how often it stopped and how long the short trip to Epcot took.   

Now to convince my husband to jump on board by the time sales open to the public.  We would be new owners, so a few weeks to decide yet.


----------



## GoingSince1990

mamaofsix said:


> Just got back from a 2 week trip and did the DVC tour of both VGF and RIV.   We have never been at either resort. Grand Floridian was FAR and away our favorite of the two.  Better location/transportation options and way more dining/shopping options.  We also liked the "vibe," lobby and grounds much more.    We would be one of those families who would buy in only wanting to use the 1 or 2 bedrooms, though, not the new Resort Studios unless we were desperate.   So, current owners who are concerned that the added Resort Studios will make the deluxe and multi-bedroom suites more scarce are likely correct.  We'd be buying in with no intention of ever booking the resort studios.
> 
> I'm glad we toured them both, as going into it I was sure I would like RIV better.  However, the rooms and grounds didn't "wow" us like the refurbished rooms at GFV.  We rode the Skyliner and were surprised how often it stopped and how long the short trip to Epcot took.
> 
> Now to convince my husband to jump on board by the time sales open to the public.  We would be new owners, so a few weeks to decide yet.


The Grand Floridian is magical and I have loved it since our first trip there in 1994. And it’s only gotten better since then, with the walking path to MK, new pool, and the water play area (which was sadly built too late for our children to enjoy but hoping to watch our grandchildren play in it!) Personally I think the new VGF sale is a wonderful opportunity, and an absolute bargain, and many who pass it up will be kicking themselves in years to come.


----------



## mamaofsix

GoingSince1990 said:


> The Grand Floridian is magical and I have loved it since our first trip there in 1994. And it’s only gotten better since then, with the walking path to MK, new pool, and the water play area (which was sadly built too late for our children to enjoy but hoping to watch our grandchildren play in it!) Personally I think the new VGF sale is a wonderful opportunity, and an absolute bargain, and many who pass it up will be kicking themselves in years to come.


Was thinking the same thing . . . I believe it will sell out quickly and don't want to regret in the future that we didn't go for it when it was available.


----------



## ninafeliz

mamaofsix said:


> Just got back from a 2 week trip and did the DVC tour of both VGF and RIV.   We have never been at either resort. Grand Floridian was FAR and away our favorite of the two.  Better location/transportation options and way more dining/shopping options.  We also liked the "vibe," lobby and grounds much more.    We would be one of those families who would buy in only wanting to use the 1 or 2 bedrooms, though, not the new Resort Studios unless we were desperate.   So, current owners who are concerned that the added Resort Studios will make the deluxe and multi-bedroom suites more scarce are likely correct.  We'd be buying in with no intention of ever booking the resort studios.
> 
> I'm glad we toured them both, as going into it I was sure I would like RIV better.  However, the rooms and grounds didn't "wow" us like the refurbished rooms at GFV.  We rode the Skyliner and were surprised how often it stopped and how long the short trip to Epcot took.
> 
> Now to convince my husband to jump on board by the time sales open to the public.  We would be new owners, so a few weeks to decide yet.


We love them both, our two home resorts are Riviera and VGF.  We toured the original VGF on our last trip, prior to buying in, and commented on how similar the room were between the two resorts.  Essentially the same setup, and they both had the same upscale, airy, light feel to me.


----------



## SleeplessInTO

We probably saw 4 or 5 DVC tours happening today between walking from the Villas to Gasparilla’s around noon. Sitting in the lobby, the Enchanted Rose DVC event drew a lot of interest. This is making me want to buy more points.


----------



## ninafeliz

SleeplessInTO said:


> We probably saw 4 or 5 DVC tours happening today between walking from the Villas to Gasparilla’s around noon. Sitting in the lobby, the Enchanted Rose DVC event drew a lot of interest. This is making me want to buy more points.


What is the Enchanted Rose DVC event?


----------



## SleeplessInTO

ninafeliz said:


> What is the Enchanted Rose DVC event?


I didn’t go in but it looked like there were drinks. The lounge event was until 2pm for DVC and then went back to regular operations at 3:30 or so. I might drop by tomorrow and check it out. Have been meaning to try that elderflower drink.


----------



## Nabas

mamaofsix said:


> Just got back from a 2 week trip and did the DVC tour of both VGF and RIV.   We have never been at either resort. Grand Floridian was FAR and away our favorite of the two.  Better location/transportation options and way more dining/shopping options.  We also liked the "vibe," lobby and grounds much more.    We would be one of those families who would buy in only wanting to use the 1 or 2 bedrooms, though, not the new Resort Studios unless we were desperate.   So, current owners who are concerned that the added Resort Studios will make the deluxe and multi-bedroom suites more scarce are likely correct.  We'd be buying in with no intention of ever booking the resort studios.
> 
> I'm glad we toured them both, as going into it I was sure I would like RIV better.  However, the rooms and grounds didn't "wow" us like the refurbished rooms at GFV.  We rode the Skyliner and were surprised how often it stopped and how long the short trip to Epcot took.
> 
> Now to convince my husband to jump on board by the time sales open to the public.  We would be new owners, so a few weeks to decide yet.


Did you get a chance to tour the Grand Villa at the Riviera?

We also think the Grand Floridian is a better resort but the living room and kitchen in the Riviera’s Grand Villa is the single best layout we have seen at any DVC resort.  It’s a great space to entertain a large group. I searched online but cannot find a picture that does it justice.


----------



## mamaofsix

Nabas said:


> Did you get a chance to tour the Grand Villa at the Riviera?
> 
> We also think the Grand Floridian is a better resort but the living room and kitchen in the Riviera’s Grand Villa is the single best layout we have seen at any DVC resort.  It’s a great space to entertain a large group. I searched online but cannot find a picture that does it justice.


Yes, we toured both Grand Villas.  The kitchen area was awesome at the Riviera.  However, that bonus home theater room that doubles as a 4th Bedroom at the Grand Floridian was also pretty great for a big family like our's...


----------



## BrianLo

Royal Consort said:


> I find it ridiculous that DVC is having a bet either way on restrictions. It blows my mind they are selling two completely different products simultaneously. They need to sort this out but I am not convinced _they _even know what they're doing. They're going to have to make a concrete decision soon. The flip flopping inconsistency belies bureaucratic chaos.



The resale market is selling vastly different products. DVC is essentially selling the same thing.

The ONLY reason it sucks for direct buyers is if it detrimentally effects resale values. Which I think is overblown. 

DVC is very effectively eroding the resale market in favour of their product. It sucks of course, but if RIV resale for some reason lines up with the likes to CCV, was it really a worse product?


----------



## OlieRow

For the current add-on incentives, is there any requirements regarding # of points, direct vs resale, etc or does any current DVC membership count?


----------



## SleeplessInTO

OlieRow said:


> For the current add-on incentives, is there any requirements regarding # of points, direct vs resale, etc or does any current DVC membership count?


Any current membership counts to qualify for current member incentives. The incentives get better as you buy more points. But what you own or how you bought it prior to purchasing VGF2 doesn’t matter, as long as you already own something.


----------



## pinkxray

I am starting to have major FOMO. I wouldn’t buy enough to qualify for the incentives. I know those go away March 31. The regular price for under 100pts is staying the same correct? Thinking I might sell my BWV tiny contract to get 50 GFV. I really want a few direct points and VGF is my favorite resort. Dh hates it though so I don’t want to commit to to many points there. 
We will be going to Aulani in April and I think I might add on 50 pts at GFV where I can talk to a guide. Any reason not to wait a month? I feel like I need some time to think about this.


----------



## JoeyPeligroso

pinkxray said:


> I am starting to have major FOMO. I wouldn’t buy enough to qualify for the incentives. I know those go away March 31. The regular price for under 100pts is staying the same correct? Thinking I might sell my BWV tiny contract to get 50 GFV. I really want a few direct points and VGF is my favorite resort. Dh hates it though so I don’t want to commit to to many points there.
> We will be going to Aulani in April and I think I might add on 50 pts at GFV where I can talk to a guide. Any reason not to wait a month? I feel like I need some time to think about this.



It sounds like waiting and taking the time make the best choice is the way to go?  I understand the FOMO and some of the stresses this can bring, but I wonder if the other stresses are better managed with time and more information irrespective of price.


----------



## Nabas

pinkxray said:


> I am starting to have major FOMO. I wouldn’t buy enough to qualify for the incentives. I know those go away March 31. The regular price for under 100pts is staying the same correct? Thinking I might sell my BWV tiny contract to get 50 GFV. I really want a few direct points and VGF is my favorite resort. Dh hates it though so I don’t want to commit to too many points there.
> We will be going to Aulani in April and I think I might add on 50 pts at GFV where I can talk to a guide. Any reason not to wait a month? I feel like I need some time to think about this.


Someone posted that their guide told them that the VGF2 price will remain at $207pp after March 30, although incentives will change. So if you are buying only 50 points (i.e. no pricing incentives), then you should have time.


----------



## CarolMN

IMO, the only risk is a price increase before you make your decision to buy.  Based on what we know now (anecdotal evidence), that risk is small.  Even if the price goes up, the total extra for 50 points may not be enough for you to rush your decision.  Good luck!


----------



## Sandisw

BrianLo said:


> The resale market is selling vastly different products. DVC is essentially selling the same thing.
> 
> The ONLY reason it sucks for direct buyers is if it detrimentally effects resale values. Which I think is overblown.
> 
> DVC is very effectively eroding the resale market in favour of their product. It sucks of course, but if RIV resale for some reason lines up with the likes to CCV, was it really a worse product?



I agree.  I was one who thought RIV resale would tank right out of the gate because there would be no market for it at all.

Turns out many of us were wrong. I myself paid $152/point. Now, current sales, being there have been less than 100, does not mean it will always remain this strong…but, two years after the resort opened, people are paying a decent clip for a one resort only contract,

I think the resort sells itself and those that enjoy it are okay with owning some points that are good in one place.  

You also wonder if the percentage of RIV owners who end up selling will be less than traditional if the market takes a dive.  

I agree it’s about ones own use of the contract and less worry about selling than the group of us here.


----------



## Sandisw

pinkxray said:


> I am starting to have major FOMO. I wouldn’t buy enough to qualify for the incentives. I know those go away March 31. The regular price for under 100pts is staying the same correct? Thinking I might sell my BWV tiny contract to get 50 GFV. I really want a few direct points and VGF is my favorite resort. Dh hates it though so I don’t want to commit to to many points there.
> We will be going to Aulani in April and I think I might add on 50 pts at GFV where I can talk to a guide. Any reason not to wait a month? I feel like I need some time to think about this.



I do not see the price rising but one thing you could do is agree to buy before the end of the month,  and then cancel it within the 10 days if nothing changes.

This way, you hedge your bets either way.


----------



## DVChris

pinkxray said:


> I am starting to have major FOMO. I wouldn’t buy enough to qualify for the incentives. I know those go away March 31. The regular price for under 100pts is staying the same correct? Thinking I might sell my BWV tiny contract to get 50 GFV. I really want a few direct points and VGF is my favorite resort. Dh hates it though so I don’t want to commit to to many points there.
> We will be going to Aulani in April and I think I might add on 50 pts at GFV where I can talk to a guide. Any reason not to wait a month? I feel like I need some time to think about this.


If you stay at studios, my guess is with so many new studios added at GF2, your current points would still work to grab one at 7 months. Just another idea to consider.


----------



## SleeplessInTO

ninafeliz said:


> What is the Enchanted Rose DVC event?


I just stopped by. It’s a DVC event where you can take a tour and get the elderflower limonata drink (free). If you’re a current member you can just get the drink if you don’t want the tour. The limonata can be alcoholic or not based on your preference. The lounge is lovely - themed to the library, the chandelier is based on belle’s dress, and there’s an enchanted forest section. Also has an outdoor area overlooking the lake. There’s pictures of the new resort studio and DVC execs hanging around.


----------



## Sandisw

SleeplessInTO said:


> I just stopped by. It’s a DVC event where you can take a tour and get the elderflower limonata drink (free). If you’re a current member you can just get the drink if you don’t want the tour. The limonata can be alcoholic or not based on your preference. The lounge is lovely - themed to the library, the chandelier is based on belle’s dress, and there’s an enchanted forest section. Also has an outdoor area overlooking the lake. There’s pictures of the new resort studio and DVC execs hanging around.



I realize now that I don’t think that is what I got when I visited because I went at night and it was not free!

It was tasty for sure but sounds like it wasn’t this!


----------



## SleeplessInTO

Sandisw said:


> I realize now that I don’t think that is what I got when I visited because I went at night and it was not free!
> 
> It was tasty for sure but sounds like it wasn’t this!


Argh it’s sideways but the drink is the yellow beverage. If you went after 3:30 you may have gotten the same drink but it was the regular lounge (vs DVC only?)


----------



## Sandisw

SleeplessInTO said:


> View attachment 656036Argh it’s sideways but the drink is the yellow beverage. If you went after 3:30 you may have gotten the same drink but it was the regular lounge (vs DVC only?)



Mine was not the same!


----------



## SleeplessInTO

Sandisw said:


> Mine was not the same!


I’ll have to visit that lounge more often. Someone else posted a Lavender Fog which looked fabulous and I need to try it next time! (Preferably closer to 5 so I don’t feel so guilty haha.)


----------



## RamblinWreck

pinkxray said:


> I am starting to have major FOMO. I wouldn’t buy enough to qualify for the incentives. I know those go away March 31. The regular price for under 100pts is staying the same correct? Thinking I might sell my BWV tiny contract to get 50 GFV. I really want a few direct points and VGF is my favorite resort. Dh hates it though so I don’t want to commit to to many points there.
> We will be going to Aulani in April and I think I might add on 50 pts at GFV where I can talk to a guide. Any reason not to wait a month? I feel like I need some time to think about this.


The FOMO for me finally set in.

I’m not buying direct though.

VGF is far and away our favorite resort. I’ve been low balling some resale contracts in our use year and someone agreed to $144 per point… so… I guess this is happening.


----------



## krysib

RamblinWreck said:


> The FOMO for me finally set in.
> 
> I’m not buying direct though.
> 
> VGF is far and away our favorite resort. I’ve been low balling some resale contracts in our use year and someone agreed to $144 per point… so… I guess this is happening.



wow! What’s the ROFR been like lately? Will that have a risk of being taken or no risk now that there are plenty of points for Disney to sell.


----------



## RamblinWreck

krysib said:


> wow! What’s the ROFR been like lately? Will that have a risk of being taken or no risk now that there are plenty of points for Disney to sell.


I really have no idea.

I guess we’ll find out!


----------



## SleeplessInTO

RamblinWreck said:


> The FOMO for me finally set in.
> 
> I’m not buying direct though.
> 
> VGF is far and away our favorite resort. I’ve been low balling some resale contracts in our use year and someone agreed to $144 per point… so… I guess this is happening.


That’s an amazing price. Good luck!!


----------



## Sandisw

RamblinWreck said:


> The FOMO for me finally set in.
> 
> I’m not buying direct though.
> 
> VGF is far and away our favorite resort. I’ve been low balling some resale contracts in our use year and someone agreed to $144 per point… so… I guess this is happening.



Such an awesome price and with all the new points needs to sell, I bet it sneaks on through!!

Good luck!!


----------



## RamblinWreck

Sandisw said:


> Such an awesome price and with all the new points needs to sell, I bet it sneaks on through!!
> 
> Good luck!!


Thanks!

I have no idea what to expect really. Has there been much of a precedent for resorts getting ROFR’d during active sales?


----------



## Sandisw

RamblinWreck said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I have no idea what to expect really. Has there been much of a precedent for resorts getting ROFR’d during active sales?



The precedent is they do not take them. There have been RIV contracts that have gone through in the $100 to $110 range so if this got taken it’d Be the first one I have every seen.


----------



## lorie13

Congratulations on getting an accepted offer for that price.  I scoured the resale boards and everything was so high, plus stripped and I could not find our UY, so we went direct with 125 points, thinking we could add some more resale down the road, but after thinking about it more and with the $21 discount with 200 point purchase, we added more points and settled at 200 for $186.  
What did you get for $144, that is actually less than I thought it would every see it go, but a 30% discount is awesome. That is a dollar less than the original release price back in 2013, it  was $145 for members during the pre purchase period. 



RamblinWreck said:


> The FOMO for me finally set in.
> 
> I’m not buying direct though.
> 
> VGF is far and away our favorite resort. I’ve been low balling some resale contracts in our use year and someone agreed to $144 per point… so… I guess this is happening.


----------



## RamblinWreck

lorie13 said:


> Congratulations on getting an accepted offer for that price.  I scoured the resale boards and everything was so high, plus stripped and I could not find our UY, so we went direct with 125 points, thinking we could add some more resale down the road, but after thinking about it more and with the $21 discount with 200 point purchase, we added more points and settled at 200 for $186.
> What did you get for $144, that is actually less than I thought it would every see it go, but a 30% discount is awesome. That is a dollar less than the original release price back in 2013, it  was $145 for members during the pre purchase period.


Thanks!

This one is definitely on the stripped side, to be fair!

It's an April UY, and we can't close until May because they're using it in May. And on that May trip they're using all of the 2022 points and a small chunk of the 2023 points. But this actually works out perfectly with our plans, so it wasn't a problem for us!


----------



## RoseGold

42 minutes on the phone, but I did it!  I booked a VGF2 room for this summer!


----------



## Paul Stupin

RoseGold said:


> 42 minutes on the phone, but I did it!  I booked a VGF2 room for this summer!


Congrats! Does the 42 minutes include waiting on hold? If so, congrats as well!


----------



## RoseGold

Paul Stupin said:


> Congrats! Does the 42 minutes include waiting on hold? If so, congrats as well!



Yes, my quickest DVC call since Covid.


----------



## BeBopaSaurus

RoseGold said:


> 42 minutes on the phone, but I did it!  I booked a VGF2 room for this summer!



We did it too!

Called my guide last night, points were in my account this am, dialed member services at 9:00, mashed #1 a couple of times, and got straight through! No wait time at all! And she was so friendly and pleasant! And now we have our VGF2 room booked for Thanksgiving! Phone log says “8 minutes”. It was all incredibly pleasant, and now I am super excited!  

(But now my expectations for calling member services have been raised!!)


----------



## smmora

I left my guide a voicemail Saturday night saying I wanted to go from 125 to 150.
His vm message said he doesn't work Sunday or Monday, to my shock he called yesterday, 
Let me know he had done the draft contract, but he had to have IT add the luggage in (since its not offered now and I had it) to finalize it
and once that was done he would call me today.


----------



## pianomanzano

Slightly related to this thread, but how much would you value a fixed week (a fixed week in the fall) deluxe studio resale for VGF1? I see value in it since it guarantees one of the VGF1 studios.


----------



## rubybutt

pianomanzano said:


> Slightly related to this thread, but how much would you value a fixed week (a fixed week in the fall) deluxe studio resale for VGF1? I see value in it since it guarantees one of the VGF1 studios.


I was going to get 2 150 point contracts so I bit the bullet and got 2 of the 157 point contracts for a fw.  I don't think I would have bought much more extra than that though.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

pianomanzano said:


> Slightly related to this thread, but how much would you value a fixed week (a fixed week in the fall) deluxe studio resale for VGF1? I see value in it since it guarantees one of the VGF1 studios.



Difficult to really predict until we see how the resort studios vs deluxe studios are favored but IMO you still need to find a buyer who wants to use that particular week quite a bit of the time to give it added value.   That may make it more difficult.


----------



## iluvthsgam

pianomanzano said:


> Slightly related to this thread, but how much would you value a fixed week (a fixed week in the fall) deluxe studio resale for VGF1? I see value in it since it guarantees one of the VGF1 studios.


I was looking at fixed weeks but ultimately concluded it didn’t get much benefit. It’s great for very busy times to get a guarantee. Or if you travel the exact same week every year.  But the great thing about DVC is that it’s not fixed weeks. I can’t remember ever going on a Sunday to Sunday. So I wouldn’t get really any value out of it. It’s all or nothing. You have to take the entire week or nothing. If you could trim days it might be worth something to me though!


----------



## TinkB278

RamblinWreck said:


> The FOMO for me finally set in.
> 
> I’m not buying direct though.
> 
> VGF is far and away our favorite resort. I’ve been low balling some resale contracts in our use year and someone agreed to $144 per point… so… I guess this is happening.


Wow! How many points was it?


----------



## got4boys

iluvthsgam said:


> I was looking at fixed weeks but ultimately concluded it didn’t get much benefit. It’s great for very busy times to get a guarantee. Or if you travel the exact same week every year.  But the great thing about DVC is that it’s not fixed weeks. I can’t remember ever going on a Sunday to Sunday. So I wouldn’t get really any value out of it. It’s all or nothing. You have to take the entire week or nothing. If you could trim days it might be worth something to me though!


Fixed weeks protects from points inflation if DVC reallocates seasons. Also you do not have to worry about booking exactly 11 months out if the time you want to go is a high demand time, like New Years Eve, Christmas, etc.


----------



## pianomanzano

got4boys said:


> Fixed weeks protects from points inflation if DVC reallocates seasons. Also you do not have to worry about booking exactly 11 months out if the time you want to go is a high demand time, like New Years Eve, Christmas, etc.


One I’m seeing now is exactly that. 138 point contact but the week currently is worth 158 points. That couple with a guaranteed deluxe studio might make it worth it.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

got4boys said:


> Fixed weeks protects from points inflation if DVC reallocates seasons. Also you do not have to worry about booking exactly 11 months out if the time you want to go is a high demand time, like New Years Eve, Christmas, etc.



Yes, IF you go that same week all the time.  And other than the few race weeks you also need to want to go Sun-Sun which I also think it a little rare.  That is the part that is important.  It must be a popular week to easily find a buyer who will benefit because they also plan to go that particular week.  Once you don't use that week then itj's really just another contract with points.


----------



## lorie13

I saw his ad, but it looks like it is gone now, asking $200 per point for week 41 in a Standard View Studio. October is 139 points for the week in a Standard View, 19 points per night Sun - Thur and 22 points a night Fri & Sat. 



pianomanzano said:


> One I’m seeing now is exactly that. 138 point contact but the week currently is worth 158 points. That couple with a guaranteed deluxe studio might make it worth it.


----------



## lorie13

That is our UY too, but I would not have considered such a stripped contract, we need mega points for a stay next year. 
Good Luck



RamblinWreck said:


> Thanks!
> 
> This one is definitely on the stripped side, to be fair!
> 
> It's an April UY, and we can't close until May because they're using it in May. And on that May trip they're using all of the 2022 points and a small chunk of the 2023 points. But this actually works out perfectly with our plans, so it wasn't a problem for us!


----------



## pianomanzano

lorie13 said:


> I saw his ad, but it looks like it is gone now, asking $200 per point for week 41 in a Standard View Studio. October is 139 points for the week in a Standard View, 19 points per night Sun - Thur and 22 points a night Fri & Sat.


Sorry meant it was 158 in 2023. They DMed after they took down the listing saying they could potentially go lower, we’ll see what happens with the one I have in ROFR right now first I guess haha.


----------



## RamblinWreck

TinkB278 said:


> Wow! How many points was it?


230.

More than I thought I ever wanted, but somehow costs less than most smaller contracts I ever considered purchasing, and also the VGF dues are super low. So I love it!


----------



## sjdrr1313

RamblinWreck said:


> The FOMO for me finally set in.
> 
> I’m not buying direct though.
> 
> VGF is far and away our favorite resort. I’ve been low balling some resale contracts in our use year and someone agreed to $144 per point… so… I guess this is happening.


What was their original asking price if you don't mind sharing? I keep seeing all these listings that are still at $210/point. Is it worth it to make a low offer? How many times did you get turned down before someone accepted?


----------



## RamblinWreck

sjdrr1313 said:


> What was their original asking price if you don't mind sharing? I keep seeing all these listings that are still at $210/point. Is it worth it to make a low offer? How many times did you get turned down before someone accepted?


I’ve only been targeting ones that are listed a little on the low side. I figure it means they recognize the current direct sales situation and that they don’t want to wait a long time to be able to move it.

This particular contract was listed at $165. Already a decent price. I think it was the 2nd lowest list price I’ve seen since VGF went on sale.

I offered $140, and included in my offer an explanation of how I understood it was a little below asking but for a stripped contract to make sense over a direct contract I could buy at $186 that it was going to be the only way for it to make sense for me.

In less than an hour they came back at $150, which I was very pleasantly surprised by. Originally I thought I’d be lucky to get them down that low at all. But now I was guessing I may get them down to $145-$147.

I countered with $144, expecting another counter from them or just a rejection. But to my shock, they accepted.

And now we are off and running!

In my opinion you’ll probably need to be willing to take stripped contracts to get a crazy good deal. Most people want to use contracts as soon as they get them and resellers competing directly with direct sales is tough if you’re peddling something stripped.


----------



## sjdrr1313

RamblinWreck said:


> I’ve only been targeting ones that are listed a little on the low side. I figure it means they recognize the current direct sales situation and that they don’t want to wait a long time to be able to move it.
> 
> This particular contract was listed at $165. Already a decent price. I think it was the 2nd lowest list price I’ve seen since VGF went on sale.
> 
> I offered $140, and included in my offer an explanation of how I understood it was a little below asking but for a stripped contract to make sense over a direct contract I could buy at $186 that it was going to be the only way for it to make sense for me.
> 
> In less than an hour they came back at $150, which I was very pleasantly surprised by. Originally I thought I’d be lucky to get them down that low at all. But now I was guessing I may get them down to $145-$147.
> 
> I countered with $144, expecting another counter from them or just a rejection. But to my shock, they accepted.
> 
> And now we are off and running!
> 
> In my opinion you’ll probably need to be willing to take stripped contracts to get a crazy good deal. Most people want to use contracts as soon as they get them and resellers competing directly with direct sales is tough if you’re peddling something stripped.


In my case I have plenty of points to use or bank currently. We just closed on our first DVC contract in december, so I am not really in any rush.. more just keeping an eye out for a deal that is too good to pass up... $144 is an awesome deal for VGF!


----------



## RamblinWreck

sjdrr1313 said:


> In my case I have plenty of points to use or bank currently. We just closed on our first DVC contract in december, so I am not really in any rush.. more just keeping an eye out for a deal that is too good to pass up... $144 is an awesome deal for VGF!


Good luck! Just keep checking for new listings everyday!

And don’t be embarrassed to offer what you’re willing to pay. The worst thing that can happen is someone says no.

Because of this deal I’m pretty sure I went from thinking we’d do a 1-bedroom for a week with our kids every couple of years, to thinking that while they’re small we can now do even longer or more frequent trips, and when they’re bigger and we want more space, we can do a 2-bedroom for a week every couple of years! I think future me is going to be thanking me for that one!


----------



## sjdrr1313

RamblinWreck said:


> Good luck! Just keep checking for new listings everyday!
> 
> And don’t be embarrassed to offer what you’re willing to pay. The worst thing that can happen is someone says no.
> 
> Because of this deal I’m pretty sure I went from thinking we’d do a 1-bedroom for a week with our kids every couple of years, to thinking that while they’re small we can now do even longer or more frequent trips, and when they’re bigger and we want more space, we can do a 2-bedroom for a week every couple of years! I think future me is going to be thanking me for that one!


I bought 200, knowing that within the next few years I'll probably need another 75-100 but we got a loaded contract to start with so we have some extra points to play with for awhile until we decide how/where/how much we want to add on. I say "we" but really it's "me" because my husband just kinda lets me figure all this stuff out, lol. We like a 1BR for our longer stays, but I like to do a long weekend here and there too, and a studio with a 5th sleeper would be fine for those.


----------



## Oscar923

I took the plunge, and bought 300 points today.  The incentives are just too good to ignore.  The points are already in my account this afternoon.  It is a lot of money, but strangely I feel great after buying.


----------



## RamblinWreck

Oscar923 said:


> I took the plunge, and bought 300 points today.  The incentives are just too good to ignore.  The points are already in my account this afternoon.  It is a lot of money, but strangely I feel great after buying.


The incentives at that level are pretty great!

congrats!


----------



## anthrax13

I am a long time lurker and someone who is planning on adding a DVC for VGF when new members can add on April 1. 

However, I have a friend who just went and stayed at VGF and he and his wife took a tour of the VGF. He has a contract drawn up for $240.00 a point that will be executed on April 1 when new members can sign up for VGF DVCs.

So it seems that the price for VGF might jump considerably from the 207 a point. His incentives are 350 extra points and he bought 300 points. All points will be available to him on April 1/2.


----------



## Red Dog Run

anthrax13 said:


> I am a long time lurker and someone who is planning on adding a DVC for VGF when new members can add on April 1.
> 
> However, I have a friend who just went and stayed at VGF and he and his wife took a tour of the VGF. He has a contract drawn up for $240.00 a point that will be executed on April 1 when new members can sign up for VGF DVCs.
> 
> So it seems that the price for VGF might jump considerably from the 207 a point. His incentives are 350 extra points and he bought 300 points. All points will be available to him on April 1/2.


197 and no extra points for direct.  350 extra points sounds odd-it's more than the contract.


----------



## rubybutt

anthrax13 said:


> I am a long time lurker and someone who is planning on adding a DVC for VGF when new members can add on April 1.
> 
> However, I have a friend who just went and stayed at VGF and he and his wife took a tour of the VGF. He has a contract drawn up for $240.00 a point that will be executed on April 1 when new members can sign up for VGF DVCs.
> 
> So it seems that the price for VGF might jump considerably from the 207 a point. His incentives are 350 extra points and he bought 300 points. All points will be available to him on April 1/2.


Could you clarify the incentives?


----------



## anthrax13

rubybutt said:


> Could you clarify the incentives?


I can try and confirm the details tomorrow.

It seemed there is some incentive off maybe off the base of 255 and additional points added to his contract one time.

He said his price was 240. He said in total his contract total value is 72k and he already put 6k down on it. He is financing it over three years.

He can't sign his contract until April 1, but worked into the contract is the extra bonus points of 350. I am not sure if those are normal incentives or incentives because he toured?

He is getting 300 points + bonus points of 350 (this is a 1x incentive) = 72k with currently 6k down. And he specifically mentioned his contract is without a signature until April 1 because they can't not sell them the points as non members.


----------



## TinkB278

anthrax13 said:


> I can try and confirm the details tomorrow.
> 
> It seemed there is some incentive off maybe off the base of 255 and additional points added to his contract one time.
> 
> He said his price was 240. He said in total his contract total value is 72k and he already put 6k down on it. He is financing it over three years.
> 
> He can't sign his contract until April 1, but worked into the contract is the extra bonus points of 350. I am not sure if those are normal incentives or incentives because he toured?


This doesn’t seem like an actual contract/situation.


----------



## anthrax13

TinkB278 said:


> This doesn’t seem like an actual contract/situation.



He is going to send me his sales guys information, Ricardo, and I will see if I can work up a contract as a new member only to have it signed by April 1. I will report back once I firm up his details. Although 240 is likely too rich for my blood


----------



## DVChris

I wonder if they are raising the base back up to $255 and giving incentives from there plus 2021 points for free, depending on UY? 

I’m shocked that new members are allowed to know pricing, sign a contract and put down a deposit for a 4/1 start date. If true, Disney should have released pricing already.


----------



## DisneyMom_3

anthrax13 said:


> I can try and confirm the details tomorrow.
> 
> It seemed there is some incentive off maybe off the base of 255 and additional points added to his contract one time.
> 
> He said his price was 240. He said in total his contract total value is 72k and he already put 6k down on it. He is financing it over three years.
> 
> He can't sign his contract until April 1, but worked into the contract is the extra bonus points of 350. I am not sure if those are normal incentives or incentives because he toured?
> 
> He is getting 300 points + bonus points of 350 (this is a 1x incentive) = 72k with currently 6k down. And he specifically mentioned his contract is without a signature until April 1 because they can't not sell them the points as non members.




I am not a new member, but I just purchased 300 points and it was nearly $20k less than that! I was bummed that I wouldn’t get 2021 points since I have a December UY, but the one time extra points definitely are not worth $20k! 
My guide said “no one is getting 2021 points”, so if they decide to start giving out 2021 points next month, I’ll probably be giving him a call.


----------



## DisneyMom_3

anthrax13 said:


> He is going to send me his sales guys information, Ricardo, and I will see if I can work up a contract as a new member only to have it signed by April 1. I will report back once I firm up his details. Although 240 is likely too rich for my blood


Please report back because this sounds rather strange! (Any chance he’s buying 350 points? That’s much closer to the $207 price.)


----------



## poofyo101

that not correct


----------



## OnThisMagicNight

I am not yet a DVC member but spoke to our guide on Friday. He said he could now confirm the base price would be $207 but he would not have information on potential incentives to share until 3/31.


----------



## pianomanzano

TinkB278 said:


> This doesn’t seem like an actual contract/situation.


Agreed, especially coming from an account that was just created. I'd want to see more proof before believing this.


----------



## DVChris

OnThisMagicNight said:


> I am not yet a DVC member but spoke to our guide on Friday. He said he could now confirm the base price would be $207 but he would not have information on potential incentives to share until 3/31.


My CM told me last week that the base would stay the same at $207. Glad that your CM is saying the same!


----------



## Sandisw

anthrax13 said:


> I can try and confirm the details tomorrow.
> 
> It seemed there is some incentive off maybe off the base of 255 and additional points added to his contract one time.
> 
> He said his price was 240. He said in total his contract total value is 72k and he already put 6k down on it. He is financing it over three years.
> 
> He can't sign his contract until April 1, but worked into the contract is the extra bonus points of 350. I am not sure if those are normal incentives or incentives because he toured?
> 
> He is getting 300 points + bonus points of 350 (this is a 1x incentive) = 72k with currently 6k down. And he specifically mentioned his contract is without a signature until April 1 because they can't not sell them the points as non members.



This is pretty odd and an extreme departure from anything that has ever happened.  Guides are not usually allowed to share data ahead of them and in essence they did sell him points, signature or not

We have heard that come April 1st the incentives for current members are reducing but base price was to stay the same.

DVD always gives notice if they will be raising the base price so something is just not correct here. 

Looking forward to getting more specifics.


----------



## mamaofsix

Sandisw said:


> This is pretty odd and an extreme departure from anything that has ever happened.  Guides are not usually allowed to share data ahead of them and in essence they did sell him points, signature or not
> 
> We have heard that come April 1st the incentives for current members are reducing but base price was to stay the same.
> 
> DVD always gives notice if they will be raising the base price so something is just not correct here.
> 
> Looking forward to getting more specifics.


I agree.  We were just there last week and got a tour of the grounds.  We would be new owners.  Our guide was very specific that it would be $207 pp with possible incentives, but that she could not give an official quote or draw up paperwork until after March 31st.  

This report just doesn't sound true.


----------



## got4boys

It will be interesting on whether the pricing stays at $207. It is definitely underpriced currently. Having the flagship resort lower than Polynesian and Bay Lake is a very interesting business move unless it was the timing of what is going on in the world that had them priced this low. With what happened in 2008 after they built Bay Lake and had to offer Black Friday Specials.

People are still buying Beach Club and Boardwalk at the higher prices (even with the shorter expiration dates). Having a monorail resort and can walk to the Magic Kingdom - the same price as Riviera Resort, at this price, it is priced very well.


----------



## krysib

anthrax13 said:


> I can try and confirm the details tomorrow.
> 
> It seemed there is some incentive off maybe off the base of 255 and additional points added to his contract one time.
> 
> He said his price was 240. He said in total his contract total value is 72k and he already put 6k down on it. He is financing it over three years.
> 
> He can't sign his contract until April 1, but worked into the contract is the extra bonus points of 350. I am not sure if those are normal incentives or incentives because he toured?
> 
> He is getting 300 points + bonus points of 350 (this is a 1x incentive) = 72k with currently 6k down. And he specifically mentioned his contract is without a signature until April 1 because they can't not sell them the points as non members.




I would guess this might be a sales tactic in the way the sales guide is pitching:

300 points at $240 is $72,000, but a 350 point contract at $207 is $72,450. 

I would guess the guide said "with pricing this low its 'like' getting 50 points free" compared to another resort/higher price of $240.


----------



## lorie13

This makes sense and then waiting for the 1st to sign the contract and if there are incentives, then adjusting the amount owed. DVD contracts look funny when you first look at it, making you think the numbers are wrong. We just signed two for the new VGF and they actually list the purchase price as $207, then a line which gives the developers credit in the initial down payment. 



krysib said:


> I would guess this might be a sales tactic in the way the sales guide is pitching:
> 
> 300 points at $240 is $72,000, but a 350 point contract at $207 is $72,450.
> 
> I would guess the guide said "with pricing this low its 'like' getting 50 points free" compared to another resort/higher price of $240.


----------



## lorie13

Also suggest to your friend to break that amount into two or three smaller contracts.  Cost a bit more in closing costs but if down the road he want to sell some points, it is easier to sell smaller contracts than a large one, plus smaller contracts go for more.  One of our regrets was our first purchase direct and we bought 270 AKV points in one contract. 



anthrax13 said:


> I can try and confirm the details tomorrow.
> 
> It seemed there is some incentive off maybe off the base of 255 and additional points added to his contract one time.
> 
> He said his price was 240. He said in total his contract total value is 72k and he already put 6k down on it. He is financing it over three years.
> 
> He can't sign his contract until April 1, but worked into the contract is the extra bonus points of 350. I am not sure if those are normal incentives or incentives because he toured?
> 
> He is getting 300 points + bonus points of 350 (this is a 1x incentive) = 72k with currently 6k down. And he specifically mentioned his contract is without a signature until April 1 because they can't not sell them the points as non members.


----------



## Sandisw

lorie13 said:


> This makes sense and then waiting for the 1st to sign the contract and if there are incentives, then adjusting the amount owed. DVD contracts look funny when you first look at it, making you think the numbers are wrong. We just signed two for the new VGF and they actually list the purchase price as $207, then a line which gives the developers credit in the initial down payment.



Except taking a deposit is the same thing as a sale.  You don’t have to actual sign.

It would have been like a guide allowing current owners to get things started before March 3rd…

Something was misunderstood.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

got4boys said:


> It will be interesting on whether the pricing stays at $207. It is definitely underpriced currently. Having the flagship resort lower than Polynesian and Bay Lake is a very interesting business move unless it was the timing of what is going on in the world that had them priced this low. With what happened in 2008 after they built Bay Lake and had to offer Black Friday Specials.
> 
> People are still buying Beach Club and Boardwalk at the higher prices (even with the shorter expiration dates). Having a monorail resort and can walk to the Magic Kingdom - the same price as Riviera Resort, at this price, it is priced very well.



It's the norm for the past decade to have resorts that are not in active sales priced higher.  It directs the buyers towards the resort that DVC actually wants to sell.  Nothing strange and nothing different and nothing to do with timing of sales starting.


----------



## RamblinWreck

KAT4DISNEY said:


> It's the norm for the past decade to have resorts that are not in active sales priced higher.  It directs the buyers towards the resort that DVC actually wants to sell.  Nothing strange and nothing different and nothing to do with timing of sales starting.


It does seem a little odd that there's so much resistance to this concept for VGF.

It wasn't odd that Saratoga Springs was more expensive than Riviera. Or that Riviera was the same price as Aulani. But now so many people think it's weird that VGF is the same price as Riviera per point? Why?

I guess it's just because VGF was previously sold out and selling at really elevated levels in the secondary market?


----------



## sndral

anthrax13 said:


> He is going to send me his sales guys information, Ricardo, and I will see if I can work up a contract as a new member only to have it signed by April 1. I will report back once I firm up his details. Although 240 is likely too rich for my blood


I’m not sure I’d want Ricardo as my guide since he’s selling VGF at $240, while other guides are saying the price will be $207 
I think I’ve figured the price out, though, if you finance $207 over 36 months like your friend is doing at 10% interest (which I think is around what Disney financing is) your total cost would be about $240 - so my guess is that’s where the $240 number comes from.
The 350 points for a 300 point contract makes less sense. Could your friend be confusing how use years & borrowing points work? What use year did your friend get? In addition to using all of your current use year allotment of points you can borrow up to 50% of next years which would in his case be 450 points available to use for trips in his 2022 use year.
Back when they were selling SSR (I think it was SSR) they did offer one time developer points - so it’s possible they’ll do so w/ VGF when sales open to nonmembers, but it would surprise me if they put more points into circulation because they are still limiting borrowing claiming the closure/pandemic has resulted in too many points to work through the system.
My final theory on the mysterious ‘extra’ points is that maybe DVC has a stash of VGF1 points which before they stopped selling VGF1 used to be priced in the $250s - if they were using VGF1 points, depending on his use year they might come w/ 2021 points - but this scenario seems less likely since then your friend would get 2x300 points=600 points rather than 350.


----------



## disneyforsix

If the one time points bonus incentive for new members is true - Are there any legal ramifications for offering 2021UY points to new DVC members, but not allowing the option to choose for current sales?  Not saying I would have taken them over current incentives, but I would think legally they would have to offer them vs saying no one is getting 2021 UY points, and then offering after the restricted sales period.


----------



## wnielsen1

disneyforsix said:


> If the one time points bonus incentive for new members is true - Are there any legal ramifications for offering 2021UY points to new DVC members, but not allowing the option to choose for current sales?  Not saying I would have taken them over current incentives, but I would think legally they would have to offer them vs saying no one is getting 2021 UY points, and then offering after the restricted sales period.


They would not give them 2021 UY points, they would give them developer points.


----------



## sndral

wnielsen1 said:


> They would not give them 2021 UY points, they would give them developer points.


Correct, they could be points from unsold Riv or Aulani or anywhere really, and could be any number of points & could come w/ strings attached.
Examples:
2014 https://dvcnews.com/index.php/dvc-p...-dvc-incentives-discount-or-developers-points
2007 https://dvcnews.com/index.php/dvc-program/financial/168-double-developers-points-incentive
And here’s a link to a 2007 discussion about the history of incentives offered https://www.disboards.com/threads/h...eveloper-points-when-a-new-dvc-opens.1884789/
In some ways I can see the attraction w/ a not yet open resort for a new buyer, here’s some points to use while you wait for your first allotment of points to load, or if you don’t mind waiting you can get $X off per point.


----------



## disneyforsix

sndral said:


> Correct, they could be points from unsold Riv or Aulani or anywhere really, and could be any number of points & could come w/ strings attached.
> Examples:
> 2014 https://dvcnews.com/index.php/dvc-p...-dvc-incentives-discount-or-developers-points
> 2007 https://dvcnews.com/index.php/dvc-program/financial/168-double-developers-points-incentive
> And here’s a link to a 2007 discussion about the history of incentives offered https://www.disboards.com/threads/h...eveloper-points-when-a-new-dvc-opens.1884789/
> In some ways I can see the attraction w/ a not yet open resort for a new buyer, here’s some points to use while you wait for your first allotment of points to load, or if you don’t mind waiting you can get $X off per point.



Gotcha - thank you for answering with examples   We just purchased Riviera in May 2021, and are now sitting on 4 more contracts at CC, SSR, and VGF2.  We love DVC and appreciate everyone's knowledge sharing!


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

sndral said:


> I’m not sure I’d want Ricardo as my guide since he’s selling VGF at $240, while other guides are saying the price will be $207


----------



## robinsce

Not sure if this is the right place to ask or not, but there is a lot of knowledge in this thread so thought I would throw it out there. We just closed on a VGF add on contract with a December use year. Should we have received 2021 points? Thanks!


----------



## disneyforsix

robinsce said:


> Not sure if this is the right place to ask or not, but there is a lot of knowledge in this thread so thought I would throw it out there. We just closed on a VGF add on contract with a December use year. Should we have received 2021 points? Thanks!


Nope - not if you purchased VGF2.   We also have a December UY and did not get 2021 points.  No one did.


----------



## KTownRaider

robinsce said:


> We just closed on a VGF add on contract with a December use year. Should we have received 2021 points? Thanks!


You won't receive 2021 points.   Conversely, you'll only pay one months worth of dues with your December UY.   Normally, if you received the current year's points (2021 in this example), you'd pay prorated dues from the time you purchased through the rest of the calendar year regardless of UY.


----------



## SusieQ93

I can confirm, I just received an email from my guide telling me price on March 31st will be $207 pp. no mention of incentives and I didn’t ask because I figure she can’t tell me so what’s the point?


----------



## RamblinWreck

SusieQ93 said:


> I can confirm, I just received an email from my guide telling me price on March 31st will be $207 pp. no mention of incentives and I didn’t ask because I figure she can’t tell me so what’s the point?


You need to talk to Ricardo.

He’ll get you 2021 points plus a few extra, and all you’ll have to do is pay $33 extra per point!


----------



## RoseGold

What on earth happened to VGF resale?  There's almost nothing on the market now!  Listing prices from the 170s all the way up to 220s.

This is all over the place!  Obviously, there are some unrealistic sellers out there, but I bet a lot of VGF resellers just left the market for now.  I know I'd rent points for a year and then try again, if I could.  Can't compete with $179 direct.


----------



## stwaldman

RoseGold said:


> What on earth happened to VGF resale?  There's almost nothing on the market now!  Listing prices from the 170s all the way up to 220s.
> 
> This is all over the place!  Obviously, there are some unrealistic sellers out there, but I bet a lot of VGF resellers just left the market for now.  I know I'd rent points for a year and then try again, if I could.  Can't compete with $179 direct.


I would think you had some people who listed in the last month or few, hoping the opening price would be in that 220-250 range a lot of people expected and they'd be first to market to get a good offer, and when it was 207 they either immediately exited (like you suggest, either to use or rent), or left it up at the same high price hoping maybe the new owner price (still technically unconfirmed) would see a hike. 

Anybody truly in a need to sell probably let their price go through the floor and already took the first acceptable offer than came in for their financial needs, and what's left is either people hoping for a near term direct price hike or just people who havent bothered adjusting their asking price yet. I know elsewhere on the boards people have mentioned getting points in the 150s or 160s right at the time the resort went back on sale.


----------



## Matty B13

RoseGold said:


> This is all over the place!  Obviously, there are some unrealistic sellers out there, but I bet a lot of VGF resellers just left the market for now.  I know I'd rent points for a year and then try again, if I could.  Can't compete with $179 direct.


This is what we are doing right now, waiting to list our June UY contract, while we are adding to our February UY.  Going to rent out our 2022 & 2023 points and maybe list them for sale in late 2023.


----------



## sndral

RoseGold said:


> What on earth happened to VGF resale?  There's almost nothing on the market now!  Listing prices from the 170s all the way up to 220s.
> 
> This is all over the place!  Obviously, there are some unrealistic sellers out there, but I bet a lot of VGF resellers just left the market for now.  I know I'd rent points for a year and then try again, if I could.  Can't compete with $179 direct.


For smaller contracts you aren’t competing w/ $179 direct, under 125 points you’re competing w/ $207 & if you aren’t already a member you can’t buy fewer than 150 points direct.
I’d been wanting to add on to my VGF points for a couple of years & thus casually kept an eye on VGF resale listings & IME VGF resale listings have always been pretty sparse which makes sense when you compare VGF1‘s 2.5M points w/ the bigger resorts like SSR w/ its’ 14M points & always abundant resale listings.
When VGF2 sells out I expect there to be more VGF resale contracts listed because there’ll be more points - 4.3M, so more like current Poly listings - w/ its’ 4M points.
In the short term w/ a robust rental market & w/ VGF being an in demand resort on that market why would an owner compete w/ DVC direct sales prices when more than likely if they hold on until VGF sells out they’ll see higher resale prices?


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

RoseGold said:


> What on earth happened to VGF resale?  There's almost nothing on the market now!  Listing prices from the 170s all the way up to 220s.
> 
> This is all over the place!  Obviously, there are some unrealistic sellers out there, but I bet a lot of VGF resellers just left the market for now.  I know I'd rent points for a year and then try again, if I could.  Can't compete with $179 direct.



It's a small association that has always had minimal resale contracts available.  I think there may have been a few that thought what the heck when they saw the prices.  It was crossing my mind.  It would have been a high price with no negotiating.


----------



## Paul Stupin

As others have commented, I’d just wait a year or two for VGF2 to sell out then put my resale back on the market at the same high price contracts were going for last month.


----------



## RamblinWreck

Paul Stupin said:


> As others have commented, I’d just wait a year or two for VGF2 to sell out then put my resale back on the market at the same high price contracts were going for last month.


But in the meantime, if you are on the hunt for a resale contract, keep your eye out for new listings from people who may not feel like they can wait that long!


----------



## Paul Stupin

RamblinWreck said:


> But in the meantime, if you are on the hunt for a resale contract, keep your eye out for new listings from people who may not feel like they can wait that long!


True! I just bought, though, several VGF2 contracts direct. I have quite a few resale points, but the resale process for me is now just too much of a drag, and I want the direct points to stay at Riviera and all the exciting new resorts going forward!


----------



## RamblinWreck

Paul Stupin said:


> True! I just bought, though, several VGF2 contracts direct. I have quite a few resale points, but the resale process for me is now just too much of a drag, and I want the direct points to stay at Riviera and all the exciting new resorts going forward!


Makes sense!

I am 100% going to be kicking myself if this ridiculous deal I got on a VGF resale contract gets ROFR'd and then I'm not able to take full advantage of the direct incentives anymore.


----------



## DVChris

RamblinWreck said:


> I am 100% going to be kicking myself if this ridiculous deal I got on a VGF resale contract gets ROFR'd and then I'm not able to take full advantage of the direct incentives anymore.


Speak with a CM about your situation. I spoke with mine recently and we have a good timeline plan for GF2 since I am adding a new UY and in the process of adding a resale to it first.


----------



## RamblinWreck

DVChris said:


> Speak with a CM about your situation. I spoke with mine recently and we have a good timeline plan for GF2 since I am adding a new UY and in the process of adding a resale to it first.


The cynic in me says that if I tell a CM that I would likely buy direct if a resale contract I just sent to ROFR gets taken... that nothing good can come from that.


----------



## Sandisw

RamblinWreck said:


> The cynic in me says that if I tell a CM that I would likely buy direct if a resale contract I just sent to ROFR gets taken... that nothing good can come from that.



Or, just agree to buy right before end of the month and hope you hear within the 10 day cancel window.

Worst case, you don’t have ROFR info and cancel, and miss the incentives.   

Honestly, I will be shocked for them to ROFR VGF with close the millions of points they have to sell now.


----------



## iluvthsgam

Sandisw said:


> Or, just agree to buy right before end of the month and hope you hear within the 10 day cancel window.
> 
> Worst case, you don’t have ROFR info and cancel, and miss the incentives.
> 
> Honestly, I will be shocked for them to ROFR VGF with close the millions of points they have to sell now.



This is a good plan. When you cancel in the 10-day window - has anyone heard of trying to get them to do a new contract with the pre 3/31 incentives? I doubt they would, but maybe?


----------



## Sandisw

iluvthsgam said:


> This is a good plan. When you cancel in the 10-day window - has anyone heard of trying to get them to do a new contract with the pre 3/31 incentives? I doubt they would, but maybe?



If you do the contract before the 31st to lock in the incentives, and then cancel that contract during the 10 day window, they won’t let you get those incentives still in a new contract.


Now, the incentives are better after the 31st, they will redo the contract for you to get the better incentives.


----------



## BWV Dreamin

sndral said:


> For smaller contracts you aren’t competing w/ $179 direct, under 125 points you’re competing w/ $207 & if you aren’t already a member you can’t buy fewer than 150 points direct.
> I’d been wanting to add on to my VGF points for a couple of years & thus casually kept an eye on VGF resale listings & IME VGF resale listings have always been pretty sparse which makes sense when you compare VGF1‘s 2.5M points w/ the bigger resorts like SSR w/ its’ 14M points & always abundant resale listings.
> When VGF2 sells out I expect there to be more VGF resale contracts listed because there’ll be more points - 4.3M, so more like current Poly listings - w/ its’ 4M points.
> In the short term w/ a robust rental market & w/ VGF being an in demand resort on that market why would an owner compete w/ DVC direct sales prices when more than likely if they hold on until VGF sells out they’ll see higher resale prices?


If they are a small point owner, those contracts should still command a premium. New owners must purchase 150 points.


----------



## pianomanzano

RoseGold said:


> What on earth happened to VGF resale?  There's almost nothing on the market now!  Listing prices from the 170s all the way up to 220s.
> 
> This is all over the place!  Obviously, there are some unrealistic sellers out there, but I bet a lot of VGF resellers just left the market for now.  I know I'd rent points for a year and then try again, if I could.  Can't compete with $179 direct.


I was on the hunt for cheap VGF1 resale points right when VGF2 went on sale. A handful of sellers pulled their contracts as I was making offers in the $150-160pp range.


----------



## AmyPK

nuhusky123 said:


> They are smoking something



I guess you never know…


----------



## nuhusky123

I know this has been answered but I couldn’t find it

when can we book resort studios via the online tool?


----------



## stwaldman

nuhusky123 said:


> I know this has been answered but I couldn’t find it
> 
> when can we book resort studios via the online tool?


Edited, I thought the post said where,not when. Nevermind.


----------



## nuhusky123

stwaldman said:


> Edited, I thought the post said where,not when. Nevermind.


I’d be really daft if asking where


----------



## The Jackal

SleeplessInTO said:


> View attachment 656036Argh it’s sideways but the drink is the yellow beverage. If you went after 3:30 you may have gotten the same drink but it was the regular lounge (vs DVC only?)


The Dis website puts the picture in landscape. Must be the program, other forums do not do this. So to stop this issue, turn phone sideways when taking pics.


----------



## Sandisw

nuhusky123 said:


> I’d be really daft if asking where



Bookings open for all on May 13th.  It should be available online then.


----------



## nuhusky123

Sandisw said:


> Bookings open for all on May 13th.  It should be available online then.


Thanks


----------



## SleeplessInTO

The Jackal said:


> The Dis website puts the picture in landscape. Must be the program, other forums do not do this. So to stop this issue, turn phone sideways when taking pics.


Thanks!


----------



## Tbella

Sandisw said:


> Bookings open for all on May 13th.  It should be available online then.



What time can you start booking?


----------



## CarolMN

Tbella said:


> What time can you start booking?


Online booking opens at 8 am Eastern.    MS opens at 9 am Eastern.


----------



## Cyberc1978

Cyberc1978 said:


> Title insurance or not if the title company screws up I would expect them to make it right at no additional charge to me.


So I just got my contracts to sign and the closing costs on a 50 points contract is $91 plus document fee of $250. A total of $341. This is without title insurance.

Is it just me or is the amounts listed in the contracts confusing as there are totals with and without the developer incentives


----------



## Sandisw

Cyberc1978 said:


> So I just got my contracts to sign and the closing costs on a 50 points contract is $91 plus document fee of $250. A total of $341. This is without title insurance.
> 
> Is it just me or is the amounts listed in the contracts confusing as there are totals with and without the developer incentives



It was to me as I saw he initial part and thought it was wrong until I went further and realized why they did it the way that they did.

I think the paper that showed the developer credit should have been first!  LOL


----------



## ValW

Anyone else wait until the last minute?  I just purchased 125pts!!  Couldn't let it pass.


----------



## miTnosnhoJ

ValW said:


> Anyone else wait until the last minute?  I just purchased 125pts!!  Couldn't let it pass.


Heh! We bought an additional 125 points today, too.  We thought hard about getting a favorite week, but we’ll have plenty of points without it.


----------



## najgreen

Cyberc1978 said:


> So I just got my contracts to sign and the closing costs on a 50 points contract is $91 plus document fee of $250. A total of $341. This is without title insurance.
> 
> Is it just me or is the amounts listed in the contracts confusing as there are totals with and without the developer incentives


I thought it was confusing, too! I initially thought it was wrong but then I figured it out. Up until now, I had only purchased resale, it was amazing how quickly they load the points, absolutely loved that part!!


----------



## Bali2012

DisneyMom_3 said:


> My vote is for Yacht Club!
> 
> I do hope they decide to convert at least part of Yacht Club
> 
> A split stay at a MK resort and Epcot resort that are within walking distance to the parks would be my preference probably almost every trip!



me too , I would love Yacht club.

I enjoy split stays ( my trips are always two weeks) and with BWV and now VGF2 I will own both to do MK and Epcot split stay every time. I am really looking forward to the years ahead!


----------



## Soap_1984

Someone may have brought this up but I think the pricing of vgf2 may have been driven by the analysis of how long it has taken to sell out many of the other new resorts. I have not done the math but with the way inflation has been and will continue to be, and with the basic idea that the longer a hotel sits with unsold points the less money is being spent at parks, restaurants etc. I'm sure you could figure out an optimal price that will maximize revenue. I know dvc operates as it's own entity but I'm sure they also want to build new resorts (I.e. Poly2) and you cannot keep doing that if you have resorts that, practically speaking, never sell out. 

Again I haven't done the math, but there must be a $ amount per point to account for selling a point today vs in two years.


----------



## qwerty2k

So is March 31st when new members will be able to see pricing/get quotes etc from a sales guide? Im looking to make my first dvc purchase and im fairly certain i want it to be VGF! Havent setup any sales calls etc as i wanted to wait until it was available to new members...


----------



## hglenn

qwerty2k said:


> So is March 31st when new members will be able to see pricing/get quotes etc from a sales guide? Im looking to make my first dvc purchase and im fairly certain i want it to be VGF! Havent setup any sales calls etc as i wanted to wait until it was available to new members...


Yes! I spoke with my guide yesterday. She's going to email me on the 31st! This might be our shot!


----------



## qwerty2k

hglenn said:


> Yes! I spoke with my guide yesterday. She's going to email me on the 31st! This might be our shot!


Great thank you! Will have to setup a call


----------



## Chuck96

Yeah, this is my week to join the fun (both DVC and the VGF2 ride).  Looking forward to spending a lot of money on delayed gratification.  Just like a wedding.


----------



## sndral

Chuck96 said:


> Yeah, this is my week to join the fun (both DVC and the VGF2 ride).  Looking forward to spending a lot of money on delayed gratification.  Just like a wedding.


Well, the new building opens in June & you can borrow half of your new points to stay anywhere w/ openings as soon as they load so you don’t _have_ to delay gratification too long 
I borrowed some of my add on 2022 points (Dec. use year) to add a couple nights in a resort studio to extend my already scheduled visit this fall.


----------



## pirate33

ValW said:


> Anyone else wait until the last minute?  I just purchased 125pts!!  Couldn't let it pass.


I have also been procrastinating and just pulled the trigger on 300 points direct.  I have about 400 points in resale contracts and am about to close on selling one of those, representing a bit less than half my current points at VGF.  This price point for direct seemed attractive.  I’m deciding what to do with the second resale contract, because now I have significantly more points than I really need because I have substantial points at other resorts.  Based on some comments here, I may hold my second VGF resale contract for awhile before attempting to sell.


----------



## MickeyMice

ValW said:


> Anyone else wait until the last minute?  I just purchased 125pts!!  Couldn't let it pass.



i just added on 200pts. i blame all of you....


----------



## Frugal Fairy Tales

MickeyMice said:


> i just added on 200pts. i blame all of you....


The peer pressure and FOMO is real! I sometimes wonder if Disney has planted people to post on this site. LOL. Kidding, not kidding.


----------



## tidefan

No peer pressure here.  The way DVC has handled this has actually made us think of selling our VGF1 points and makes us wonder how they can penalize current owners at other properties they way they have at VGF…


----------



## Sandisw

tidefan said:


> No peer pressure here.  The way DVC has handled this has actually made us think of selling our VGF1 points and makes us wonder how they can penalize current owners at other properties they way they have at VGF…



What do you mean penalize?


----------



## tidefan

Sandisw said:


> What do you mean penalize?


DVC has now made it more difficult for original VGF owners to get reservations in the main building, which is what we bought.  We have no interest in the resort studios.  All this expansion has done is increase competition for the new building.  I'll see how it shakes out, but if we have perpetual difficulty in getting Deluxe Studios or 1-bedrooms, we will probably move our VGF1 points and perhaps get more BLT.


----------



## Sandisw

tidefan said:


> DVC has now made it more difficult for original VGF owners to get reservations in the main building, which is what we bought.  We have no interest in the resort studios.  All this expansion has done is increase competition for the new building.  I'll see how it shakes out, but if we have perpetual difficulty in getting Deluxe Studios or 1-bedrooms, we will probably move our VGF1 points and perhaps get more BLT.



That is what I thought you were referring to, but didn't want to assume.  Yeah, it was always something that they gave themselves the right to do, but one of those things you never think about them actually doing.


----------



## MickeyMice

tidefan said:


> DVC has now made it more difficult for original VGF owners to get reservations in the main building, which is what we bought.  We have no interest in the resort studios.  All this expansion has done is increase competition for the new building.  I'll see how it shakes out, but if we have perpetual difficulty in getting Deluxe Studios or 1-bedrooms, we will probably move our VGF1 points and perhaps get more BLT.



agreed, it's a little bait-and-switchy for VGF1 owners


----------



## Sandisw

MickeyMice said:


> agreed, it's a little bait-and-switchy for VGF1 owners


I wouldn't call it that because it was clear they could add more phases to the resort if they wanted to.  But, as I said, its something that owners probably never really thought about it happening...though it did when they added the treehouses to SSR...so it is not the first time but certainly the first time this change could have an impact on owners who bought prior to these new rooms.


----------



## buzlite

Does anyone have any idea of how fast it will sell out? I have a call set up for day 1. Not sure if we will be ready to pull the trigger though. I wonder if people expect this to sell out in 1 day, 1 month 1 year?


----------



## CarolynFH

buzlite said:


> Does anyone have any idea of how fast it will sell out? I have a call set up for day 1. Not sure if we will be ready to pull the trigger though. I wonder if people expect this to sell out in 1 day, 1 month 1 year?


I think most forecast a year or more.  So gather your information on day 1 when you receive your call, but if you need more time to think about it, you can do so.  To me, the only time limit would be whatever the end date is for the new incentives, since the best incentives/lowest total prices tend to be when the resort first goes on sale.


----------



## tidefan

Sandisw said:


> I wouldn't call it that because it was clear they could add more phases to the resort if they wanted to.  But, as I said, its something that owners probably never really thought about it happening...though it did when they added the treehouses to SSR...so it is not the first time but certainly the first time this change could have an impact on owners who bought prior to these new rooms.


I'll agree with this, but I think that the issue with the VGF2 addendum is that SO many rooms of only 1 type were added to the association that it has completely changed the makeup of the resort overnight.  If they would have A) added more room types to stay somewhat in line with what existed before and B) did not create a new room type that is over double the number of original rooms, then I would not be as critical of this move.  Also, if they would have just made VGF2 a separate association, that would have been better, IMHO.


----------



## Sandisw

tidefan said:


> I'll agree with this, but I think that the issue with the VGF2 addendum is that SO many rooms of only 1 type were added to the association that it has completely changed the makeup of the resort overnight.  If they would have A) added more room types to stay somewhat in line with what existed before and B) did not create a new room type that is over double the number of original rooms, then I would not be as critical of this move.  Also, if they would have just made VGF2 a separate association, that would have been better, IMHO.



It did and I can understand those who bought liking it’s make up being upset that it was changed in such an unbalanced way.  

I think that the whole new association didn’t happen here because of the complaints that Poly was only studios and DVD not wanting to make that mistake again and because it was easier to make it all one for the quick turn around.


----------



## Sandisw

buzlite said:


> Does anyone have any idea of how fast it will sell out? I have a call set up for day 1. Not sure if we will be ready to pull the trigger though. I wonder if people expect this to sell out in 1 day, 1 month 1 year?



I think 18 months to 2 years.


----------



## past_or

miTnosnhoJ said:


> Heh! We bought an additional 125 points today, too.  We thought hard about getting a favorite week, but we’ll have plenty of points without it.


When is your fixed week? We have weeks 49 in VGF1 and 50 in VGF2.


----------



## New Mouse

Frugal Fairy Tales said:


> The peer pressure and FOMO is real! I sometimes wonder if Disney has planted people to post on this site. LOL. Kidding, not kidding.



They do.


----------



## iluvthsgam

tidefan said:


> I'll agree with this, but I think that the issue with the VGF2 addendum is that SO many rooms of only 1 type were added to the association that it has completely changed the makeup of the resort overnight.  If they would have A) added more room types to stay somewhat in line with what existed before and B) did not create a new room type that is over double the number of original rooms, then I would not be as critical of this move.  Also, if they would have just made VGF2 a separate association, that would have been better, IMHO.



Like you said only time will tell, but there was already a very small number of studios at VGF1, right? (Only 47 I believe.) So by adding this many more studios, could it also be looked at that VGF1 owners will have a much better chance to get a studio now? You may or might not like the new studios, but presumably some percentage of VGF1 owners will. VGF1 owners who like studios only will now have a huge pool to choose from. The new studios are  bigger, sleep 5 over 4, have two queen beds instead of 1 king.

And if the VGF1 owners who couldn't get a studio settled for a 1 bedroom, now move to the resort studio, that leaves more opportunity for you to get the 1-bedroom. 

Just some other thoughts to consider as we watch this all play out.


----------



## tidefan

iluvthsgam said:


> Like you said only time will tell, but there was already a very small number of studios at VGF1, right? (Only 47 I believe.) So by adding this many more studios, could it also be looked at that VGF1 owners will have a much better chance to get a studio now? You may or might not like the new studios, but presumably some percentage of VGF1 owners will. VGF1 owners who like studios only will now have a huge pool to choose from. The new studios are  bigger, sleep 5 over 4, have two queen beds instead of 1 king.
> 
> And if the VGF1 owners who couldn't get a studio settled for a 1 bedroom, now move to the resort studio, that leaves more opportunity for you to get the 1-bedroom.
> 
> Just some other thoughts to consider as we watch this all play out.


But this is going to assume that the same number of VGF1 owners wanting to try VGF2 is the same as those numbers of VGF2 owners wanting to go to VGF1.  And… the pool of VGF2 points is larger.

Could it be OK?  Sure, but why even take the chance that it does?  IMHO, VGF2 should have been a separate association, like Copper Creek was.  I would not have bought VGF originally if it had only the resort studios.  I still think it’s going to be a lot harder to get a unit with 2 showers…


----------



## iluvthsgam

tidefan said:


> But this is going to assume that the same number of VGF1 owners wanting to try VGF2 is the same as those numbers of VGF2 owners wanting to go to VGF1.  And… the pool of VGF2 points is larger.
> 
> Could it be OK?  Sure, but why even take the chance that it does?  IMHO, VGF2 should have been a separate association, like Copper Creek was.  I would not have bought VGF originally if it had only the resort studios.  I still think it’s going to be a lot harder to get a unit with 2 showers…



I thought VGF1 was 2.3 million points and VGF2 was 1.8 million ? I don't recall where I saw that.


----------



## Nabas

iluvthsgam said:


> I thought VGF1 was 2.3 million points and VGF2 was 1.8 million ? I don't recall where I saw that.


It's 2.5 million and 1.8 million.


----------



## tidefan

Nabas said:


> It's 2.5 million and 1.8 million.


I stand corrected!  Should be 0 problem to get a deluxe studio then…


----------



## Sandisw

tidefan said:


> I stand corrected!  Should be 0 problem to get a deluxe studio then…



I think they were showing that the current building has more points than the new building..you mentioned it being the other way around.

It will certainly have an impact on booking,,but no one will know until we see what happens and enough new points are sold.


----------



## tidefan

Sandisw said:


> I think they were showing that the current building has more points than the new building..you mentioned it being the other way around.
> 
> It will certainly have an impact on booking,,but no one will know until we see what happens and enough new points are sold.


Yes.  That is why I said that “I stand corrected”.

I don’t think it behooves anyone here to me to carry on with my grievances on this, so I’ll demur with just stating this.  I think that this sets a dangerous precedent (well, as you pointed out, the Treehouses did too) that DVD can just change things in the program on a whim in their best interests, not necessarily in the best interests of the association.  Was it in the contracts that they could?  Yes, but until these 2 instances, they hadn’t done that.  I’d say that this is an even more fundamental change to the association than the treehouses were.  It makes me think twice about DVC as I haven’t in the 15 years that we’ve been owners.  My biggest fear is that they’ll just slap new crazy point units into an association to “re-allocate” at a later date.  That makes me think…

OTOH, I can always just sell my VGF interest for what I paid, if not more on the resale market and we’ve had some good years there, so, yes, this is a “first world problem”.


----------



## iluvthsgam

tidefan said:


> I stand corrected!  Should be 0 problem to get a deluxe studio then…


not sure if this is sarcasm or not, but I don't think you are wrong. Like you said before it will matter if the VGF2 points are being used at VGF1 in the same or similar proportion as the VGF1 points are being used at VGF2. I would imagine there is an appeal to going from 47 studios to 247 studios for a good number of VGF1 owners? We shall see!


----------



## tidefan

iluvthsgam said:


> not sure if this is sarcasm or not, but I don't think you are wrong. Like you said before it will matter if the VGF2 points are being used at VGF1 in the same or similar proportion as the VGF1 points are being used at VGF2. I would imagine there is an appeal to going from 47 studios to 247 studios for a good number of VGF1 owners? We shall see!


Yeah, my sense of humor needs some work 

I admit.  I was off on my numbers.  I had thought it was the other way around…


----------



## Sandisw

iluvthsgam said:


> not sure if this is sarcasm or not, but I don't think you are wrong. Like you said before it will matter if the VGF2 points are being used at VGF1 in the same or similar proportion as the VGF1 points are being used at VGF2. I would imagine there is an appeal to going from 47 studios to 247 studios for a good number of VGF1 owners? We shall see!


And I think if they add microwaves to the Resort studios, it might help as it brings the two much closer and owners may not care as much.


----------



## RKS03

Sandisw said:


> And I think if they add microwaves to the Resort studios, it might help as it brings the two much closer and owners may not care as much.


And I didn’t look closely when I visited but I hope the resort studios will fit a half gallon of milk for little ones.


----------



## Sandisw

RKS03 said:


> And I didn’t look closely when I visited but I hope the resort studios will fit a half gallon of milk for little ones.



They are beverage coolers and people have mentioned that the temperature may not get cold enough for milk to last for long. Don’t know how accurate that is.

There are only shelves so things may need to be on their sides.


----------



## KVacc

So after much debate we finally bought VGF tonight. Our first direct contract. Super easy, our resale took so long! As we were getting off the phone our guide said Welcome Home! And if come tomorrow you like the incentives better we can change it, don’t worry. 
So now I’m wondering what he was talking about for tomorrow since I figured the better incentives were ending today.


----------



## hglenn

KVacc said:


> So after much debate we finally bought VGF tonight. Our first direct contract. Super easy, our resale took so long! As we were getting off the phone our guide said Welcome Home! And if come tomorrow you like the incentives better we can change it, don’t worry.
> So now I’m wondering what he was talking about for tomorrow since I figured the better incentives were ending today.


Yeah! We have a contract in ROFR. I’m looking forward to seeing what is released tomorrow since I’m not a member yet. We can hope it’ll be better than todays but I doubt it….


----------



## The Jackal

Sandisw said:


> And I think if they add microwaves to the Resort studios, it might help as it brings the two much closer and owners may not care as much.


Microwave, toaster and fridge and all will be happy.


----------



## Sandisw

The Jackal said:


> Microwave, toaster and fridge and all will be happy.


Wait..there is no toaster???


----------



## wnielsen1

Sandisw said:


> Wait..there is no toaster???


Why would there be a toaster?  There is no toaster in the regular hotel rooms.  A coffee maker and a beverage cooler.  That's it.


----------



## Cyberc1978

The Jackal said:


> Microwave, toaster and fridge and all will be happy.





Sandisw said:


> Wait..there is no toaster???





wnielsen1 said:


> Why would there be a toaster?  There is no toaster in the regular hotel rooms.  A coffee maker and a beverage cooler.  That's it.



My understanding is that you can ask for a toaster and a microwave and they will bring it. 

If enough people keep asking for them then they will eventually add them.


----------



## Sandisw

wnielsen1 said:


> Why would there be a toaster?  There is no toaster in the regular hotel rooms.  A coffee maker and a beverage cooler.  That's it.


Because these are not hotel rooms?


----------



## Paul Stupin

tidefan said:


> But this is going to assume that the same number of VGF1 owners wanting to try VGF2 is the same as those numbers of VGF2 owners wanting to go to VGF1.  And… the pool of VGF2 points is larger.
> 
> Could it be OK?  Sure, but why even take the chance that it does?  IMHO, VGF2 should have been a separate association, like Copper Creek was.  I would not have bought VGF originally if it had only the resort studios.  I still think it’s going to be a lot harder to get a unit with 2 showers…


I think it will be ok. We only like to book one bedrooms as well. The point chart is so high for them that its hard for me to believe that they're all going to be gone on the first day of the 11 month booking window, for most times of the year. Maybe they'll be impossible to book at 7 months, but thats not an issue for those of us who own there. 
I took the chance and added on to my VGF1 points because VGF, aside from CCV and Aulani, where I also own, is the only other home resort I want. I love Riviera, and plan to use my points occasionally to stay there, but I love VGF more.


----------



## Sandisw

Cyberc1978 said:


> My understanding is that you can ask for a toaster and a microwave and they will bring it.
> 
> If enough people keep asking for them then they will eventually add them.


I guess I will be doing that for sure.  I thought the micro was all that was missing.

Toaster is a big deal for me.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

Sandisw said:


> I guess I will be doing that for sure.  I thought the micro was all that was missing.
> 
> Toaster is a big deal for me.


It's all missing.   It's a hotel room.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

tidefan said:


> I stand corrected!  Should be 0 problem to get a deluxe studio then…


I toured the Resort Studio yesterday.  First I asked why no kitchenette and was pointed out that they are converted hotel rooms and it made no sense to add a sink when the bathroom was right there.   Ok, so that's the sales pitch their following.   
Asked about a microwave.   "Oh, well if you want one of those then just book the Deluxe studio" (as if that's easy as pie).  
Then when I asked about the beverage cooler (which doesn't get cold enough to store milk safely)  he said, well I don't recall exactly what the response was other than not necessary.  It prompted me to point out this is Disney and lots if people visit with young kids.  The answer to that?   "Well,  just book one of the Deluxe Studios then". 

I remain just as concerned now as before that this will make the booking more difficult for the full amenity rooms.  No mention was made of being able to request microwaves - or toasters.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

RKS03 said:


> And I didn’t look closely when I visited but I hope the resort studios will fit a half gallon of milk for little ones.


Beverage coolers get to a temp in the 40's.  Milk needs to be stored in the 30's.


----------



## kmedina

Well, the price is still $207, but the incentives are worse (as expected). Wonder how it will change throughout the year.


----------



## Ruttangel

Just about to post that, incentives start at $4, were $8 for 125 points and down from $21 to $12 for 200 points


----------



## Nabas

tidefan said:


> Yes.  That is why I said that “I stand corrected”.
> 
> I don’t think it behooves anyone here to me to carry on with my grievances on this, so I’ll demur with just stating this.  I think that this sets a dangerous precedent (well, as you pointed out, the Treehouses did too) that DVD can just change things in the program on a whim in their best interests, not necessarily in the best interests of the association.  Was it in the contracts that they could?  Yes, but until these 2 instances, they hadn’t done that.  I’d say that this is an even more fundamental change to the association than the treehouses were.  It makes me think twice about DVC as I haven’t in the 15 years that we’ve been owners.  My biggest fear is that they’ll just slap new crazy point units into an association to “re-allocate” at a later date.  That makes me think…
> 
> OTOH, I can always just sell my VGF interest for what I paid, if not more on the resale market and we’ve had some good years there, so, yes, this is a “first world problem”.


We have toured the VGF2 model room and don’t like it as much as the VGF1 Studio for the following reasons:

We want a microwave.
We want a real mini fridge.
We are a couple and prefer a sofa over 2 queen beds.
The VGF1 bathroom (with its 2 showers) is better.
VGF1 is much closer to its parking lot (we always have a car).
We prefer being able to pull up and drop off or pick up our luggage right at the building.
We prefer the coffee pot at VGF1 over the individual pods at VGF2.
Most of what we like above is subjective. Based on your party’s mix and how you vacation, you might feel differently about some or most of these.

However, there’s no question that the VGF1 bathroom is far superior for pretty much everyone.

We always will try to book a VGF1 Studio first, but VGF2 means that it likely will become more difficult to get a VGF1 Studio but easier to get any Studio.

As current VGF owners, we are in the camp that VGF2 offers us more negatives than positives.

It did not have to be this way.  Really, VGF2 only needs a microwave and real mini fridge to balance things out for us. We can tolerate the rest.


----------



## Nabas

Sandisw said:


> Wait..there is no toaster???


 No toaster.


----------



## Nabas

wnielsen1 said:


> Why would there be a toaster?  There is no toaster in the regular hotel rooms.  A coffee maker and a beverage cooler.  That's it.


The coffee maker in VGF2 is the individual pod type.

We much prefer the coffee pot in VGF1. We like making a pot of coffee in the morning.


----------



## Ruttangel

Wow, not very generous fr new members, starts $207, then $205 for 175 points, must have sold very well. Also 175? Makes you think minimum is going up


----------



## hglenn

Ruttangel said:


> Wow, not very generous fr new members, starts $207, then $205 for 175 points, must have sold very well. Also 175? Makes you think minimum is going up
> 
> View attachment 658802


Yea, guess I won't be getting my "Welcome Home" email today...  bummer.  RIV isn't terrible but I was hoping for better at VGF.


----------



## qwerty2k

whilst as a potential new owner i was hoping for 'better' (im only going to potentially purchase 150pts) - the new pricing is still much cheaper than before the new units opened up, so overall fairly happy still.


----------



## Ruttangel

qwerty2k said:


> whilst as a potential new owner i was hoping for 'better' (im only going to potentially purchase 150pts) - the new pricing is still much cheaper than before the new units opened up, so overall fairly happy still.


If you stepped up to 175 then the rate for those extra 25pts is $193 as you would then get a discount on all points but yeah still not too generous.


----------



## Marionnette

Ruttangel said:


> Wow, not very generous fr new members, starts $207, then $205 for 175 points, must have sold very well. Also 175? Makes you think minimum is going up
> 
> View attachment 658802


Wow! Those are some pretty stingy incentives. I guess anyone who sold for a song on the resale market recently is kicking themselves for not waiting. Resale doesn't look so bad compared to these prices.


----------



## Dyefrog

Ruttangel said:


> If you stepped up to 175 then the rate for those extra 25pts is $193 as you would then get a discount on all points but yeah still not too generous.


If they are a new owner, wouldn't their discount only bring it to $205?


----------



## mamaofsix

Ruttangel said:


> If you stepped up to 175 then the rate for those extra 25pts is $193 as you would then get a discount on all points but yeah still not too generous.


Can you explain further what you mean?  How would it be $193 for VGF2?


----------



## MiraclesTakeTime

Ruttangel said:


> Wow, not very generous fr new members, starts $207, then $205 for 175 points, must have sold very well. Also 175? Makes you think minimum is going up
> 
> View attachment 658802



This was my thought this morning too. The June deadline doesn't seem like that much of a deal. If we buy 200 points, it's only $800.00 loss. Not really a lot when you are spending that kind of cash.


----------



## Ruttangel

Dyefrog said:


> If they are a new owner, wouldn't their discount only bring it to $205?


Yes, but You pay $207 for first 150 points and then $193 for next 25 giving a total of $205 for all points


----------



## Dyefrog

Ruttangel said:


> Yes, but You pay $207 for first 150 points and then $193 for next 25 giving a total of $205 for all points


It's too bad a new owner can't buy a 25 point contract at full price and once closed buy the rest at members discount. Not sure at what point count members discount start so you may end up having to buy more than you want to make it worthwhile.


----------



## eticketplease

Dyefrog said:


> It's too bad a new owner can't buy a 25 point contract at full price and once closed buy the rest at members discount. Not sure at what point count members discount start so you may end up having to buy more than you want to make it worthwhile.


No one is able to purchase only 25 points for this resort.  They may have in the past but I believe the minimum add-on was raised to 50.

As far as getting the points at a discount, as soon as you become a member you would qualify.

So if you purchased a small point contract at any resort on the resale market and it passed ROFR then you would become a member and be eligible for member pricing.


----------



## Marionnette

Dyefrog said:


> It's too bad a new owner can't buy a 25 point contract at full price and once closed buy the rest at members discount. Not sure at what point count members discount start so you may end up having to buy more than you want to make it worthwhile.


Not that it would help now, but a new member who wants to get in on current member pricing in the future only needs to purchase a small resale contract anywhere and voila! They become a member.


----------



## eticketplease

Ruttangel said:


> Yes, but You pay $207 for first 150 points and then $193 for next 25 giving a total of $205 for all points


I'm a little confused on this math.  

I thought all points are at a discounted rate once you meet the published criteria.

If someone was purchasing 175-199 points Price Per Point is $205
200-249 would be $203
250-299 Points be $201
300-499 points come in at $199 a point.

Is this wrong?


----------



## Sandisw

Ruttangel said:


> Wow, not very generous fr new members, starts $207, then $205 for 175 points, must have sold very well. Also 175? Makes you think minimum is going up
> 
> View attachment 658802



How did they adjust RIV? Did those go down too?


----------



## Ruttangel

eticketplease said:


> I'm a little confused on this math.
> 
> I thought all points are at a discounted rate once you meet the published criteria.
> 
> If someone was purchasing 175-199 points Price Per Point is $205
> 200-249 would be $203
> 250-299 Points be $201
> 300-499 points come in at $199 a point.
> 
> Is this wrong?


No, you are correct
But if you were going to buy 150 points always worth looking at what the step cost would be to next incentive bracket.
You are only effectively paying $193 for the extra points stretching to 175 from 150. ($35,875 - $31,050)/25.


----------



## Ruttangel

Sandisw said:


> How did they adjust RIV? Did those go down too?


Yes, they removed the limited time discounts


----------



## Sandisw

eticketplease said:


> I'm a little confused on this math.
> 
> I thought all points are at a discounted rate once you meet the published criteria.
> 
> If someone was purchasing 175-199 points Price Per Point is $205
> 200-249 would be $203
> 250-299 Points be $201
> 300-499 points come in at $199 a point.
> 
> Is this wrong?


No. But the notion is that if you are buying one 150 anyway, if you apply the difference in total between the two, it’s like getting the extra 25 for a lower price because your applying the discount only to those. 

It’s just another way of looking at it. Think of it as a buy 150, get another 25 at a discount. End result is is still $205 when applying to all.


----------



## OnThisMagicNight

I'm very disappointed in the new member incentives.  We've been waiting since they first announced the VGF expansion and I had everything ready to go to purchase direct today, but now I'm having 2nd thoughts and wondering if I should attempt making some offers on resale instead.  We want 300-325 points.  If I'm being honest, it's probably not just the price, but all the bad press about Disney these past few days is starting to get to me too.  Disney has always been our happy place, our escape from the "real world" and now it's become yet another divisive topic for people to argue about - I'm worried about that attitude spilling into the parks.  Hopefully that worry is unfounded but I can't get it out of my head either way.

What would you offer resale for a contract in the 250-300+ points range?


----------



## MiraclesTakeTime

eticketplease said:


> No one is able to purchase only 25 points for this resort.  They may have in the past but I believe the minimum add-on was raised to 50.
> 
> As far as getting the points at a discount, as soon as you become a member you would qualify.
> 
> So if you purchased a small point contract at any resort on the resale market and it passed ROFR then you would become a member and be eligible for member pricing.


This could possibly be a better option. Does anyone know what add-on price is for members?


----------



## Sandisw

MiraclesTakeTime said:


> This could possibly be a better option. Does anyone know what add-on price is for members?



Incentives start at 125 points…currently $4 off…minimum when a member is 50 points which is full price at $207

200 is $12 off.  But these go only until June.  Buying and closing on resale by then would be difficult.


----------



## eticketplease

Sandisw said:


> Incentives start at 125 points…currently $4 off…minimum when a member is 50 points which is full price at $207
> 
> 200 is $12 off.  But these go only until June.  Buying and closing on resale by then would be difficult.


I agree it would be difficult but they will most likely offer more incentives after this.

However you never know if the incentive will be better and if does turn out to be better if they will raise the price per point so that they are still making their $$.


----------



## Sandisw

eticketplease said:


> I agree it would be difficult but they will most likely offer more incentives after this.
> 
> However you never know if the incentive will be better and if does turn out to be better if they will raise the price per point so that they are still making their $$.



Most often, incentives don’t get better for a resort over time. I think best case would be they keep them the same.

I would be shocked to see base price rise. It’s never happened thst fast and I don’t see this being an exception.

But, no matter what, once a member, your incentives will be better than whatever is being offered at the time for new members,  assuming you add on at a level for them. 

if resale points work for you, then it’s a good plan.


----------



## lorie13

OnThisMagicNight said:


> I'm very disappointed in the new member incentives.  We've been waiting since they first announced the VGF expansion and I had everything ready to go to purchase direct today, but now I'm having 2nd thoughts and wondering if I should attempt making some offers on resale instead.  We want 300-325 points.  If I'm being honest, it's probably not just the price, but all the bad press about Disney these past few days is starting to get to me too.  Disney has always been our happy place, our escape from the "real world" and now it's become yet another divisive topic for people to argue about - I'm worried about that attitude spilling into the parks.  Hopefully that worry is unfounded but I can't get it out of my head either way.
> 
> What would you offer resale for a contract in the 250-300+ points range?


IMO if you are not receiving at least a 20% - 30% discount on a large contract, then I would go direct. 
One of the best things about going direct is splitting the contract into smaller contracts. If you are looking for 300 points, you could do 3 100 point contracts and you can pick your UY. 

Two other items to consider is that closing costs are higher on resale than direct (on direct you can ask for no title insurance if you want for more of a savings), direct purchase dues for 2022 on VGF will be prorated after the resort opens or once your UY starts. Most resale contracts if they come with 2022 points want you to reimburse them for this year.
Many resale contracts are stripped, no points until 2023, direct you will receive 2022 points.

You definitely have time to shop around as the new pricing is good until June 1st.  Good Luck.


----------



## hglenn

lorie13 said:


> IMO if you are not receiving at least a 20% - 30% discount on a large contract, then I would go direct.
> One of the best things about going direct is splitting the contract into smaller contracts. If you are looking for 300 points, you could do 3 100 point contracts and you can pick your UY.
> 
> Two other items to consider is that closing costs are higher on resale than direct (on direct you can ask for no title insurance if you want for more of a savings), direct purchase dues for 2022 on VGF will be prorated after the resort opens or once your UY starts. Most resale contracts if they come with 2022 points want you to reimburse them for this year.
> Many resale contracts are stripped, no points until 2023, direct you will receive 2022 points.
> 
> You definitely have time to shop around as the new pricing is good until June 1st.  Good Luck


Is it just the title insurance that reduces the closing costs on direct? Any idea how much that is?


----------



## MiraclesTakeTime

Sandisw said:


> Incentives start at 125 points…currently $4 off…minimum when a member is 50 points which is full price at $207
> 
> 200 is $12 off.  But these go only until June.  Buying and closing on resale by then would be difficult. I was just comparing RIV and VGF2 discounts for buying direct.



That is true. Doing some calculations, if I compare incentives at RIV and VGF on 200 points, it is only $1400.00 difference and GF has a lower MF.


----------



## RKS03

KAT4DISNEY said:


> Beverage coolers get to a temp in the 40's.  Milk needs to be stored in the 30's.


That’s a bummer.  How much extra could a regular mini fridge have cost?


----------



## wnielsen1

Sandisw said:


> Because these are not hotel rooms?


Good one Sandi!  You have a future career as a DVC guide if you want it.  These are hotel rooms no matter how DVC markets them.  In fact, the hotel rooms in the other GF buildings (except for VGF1) are going to look exactly the same as these "resort studios".  I guess the only way to tell them apart is that housekeeping will only be cleaning the "resort studios" every 8 days.


----------



## Sandisw

MiraclesTakeTime said:


> That is true. Doing some calculations, if I compare incentives at RIV and VGF on 200 points, it is only $1400.00 difference and GF has a lower MF.



It does have 6 years less and a slightly higher points chart  but for many it may not matter, especially if VGF is preferred over RIV.


----------



## Sandisw

wnielsen1 said:


> Good one Sandi!  You have a future career as a DVC guide if you want it.  These are hotel rooms no matter how DVC markets them.  In fact, the hotel rooms in the other GF buildings (except for VGF1) are going to look exactly the same as these "resort studios".  I guess the only way to tell them apart is that housekeeping will only be cleaning the "resort studios" every 8 days.



You asked why I expected it and that is my answer.  They are supposed to be a resort studio.

To me, the failure to put in the kitchenette was what made the big difference to being more as a hotel room..not that they didn’t have a toaster….

Another email has been sent…that is really a silly exclusion.

ETA: They are going to love me when I try it for one night in JUly..please send me a real coffee pot, a toaster, and a microwave!


----------



## lorie13

hglenn said:


> Is it just the title insurance that reduces the closing costs on direct? Any idea how much that is?


Just an example on a 100 point contract (we just did 2 100 point contracts).  Direct without title insurance $413.40, with title insurance $502.43, from a resale brokers site $665.


----------



## wnielsen1

Sandisw said:


> You asked why I expected it and that is my answer.  They are supposed to be a resort studio.
> 
> To me, the failure to put in the kitchenette was what made the big difference to being more as a hotel room..not that they didn’t have a toaster….
> 
> Another email has been sent…that is really a silly exclusion.


It will be interesting to see if the room amenities evolve over time.  Certainly they can fit a microwave and a toaster somewhere.  I guess we'll find out when it opens and they start getting regular feedback.


----------



## pianomanzano

OnThisMagicNight said:


> I'm very disappointed in the new member incentives.  We've been waiting since they first announced the VGF expansion and I had everything ready to go to purchase direct today, but now I'm having 2nd thoughts and wondering if I should attempt making some offers on resale instead.  We want 300-325 points.  If I'm being honest, it's probably not just the price, but all the bad press about Disney these past few days is starting to get to me too.  Disney has always been our happy place, our escape from the "real world" and now it's become yet another divisive topic for people to argue about - I'm worried about that attitude spilling into the parks.  Hopefully that worry is unfounded but I can't get it out of my head either way.
> 
> What would you offer resale for a contract in the 250-300+ points range?


Most of the good "deals" in resale are most likely gone, since most sellers either went on board and lowered their listings (and got offers right away) or took their listings off the market when VGF2 started. There's only 5 or so listings across all the resale sites in that point range that have prices reflecting pre-VGF2. Doesn't hurt to try though! On the ROFR board, someone got a 200+ contract at $144pp and there were two recent passes at $158pp and $170pp for smaller contracts, so they're not taking any VGF right now. Good luck!


----------



## Aela

I was planning on buying VGF today, and now.. ugh…. I wish we could buy small on resale, but agree that it would be tight to close before the member deals expire.


----------



## hglenn

Sandisw said:


> Incentives start at 125 points…currently $4 off…minimum when a member is 50 points which is full price at $207
> 
> 200 is $12 off.  But these go only until June.  Buying and closing on resale by then would be difficult.


Sandi do you know the incentives for members for Riviera?  I'm now thinking that might be a better option for us if we choose to go direct. And I think it would be a better fit for us than VGF.


----------



## OnThisMagicNight

lorie13 said:


> IMO if you are not receiving at least a 20% - 30% discount on a large contract, then I would go direct.
> One of the best things about going direct is splitting the contract into smaller contracts. If you are looking for 300 points, you could do 3 100 point contracts and you can pick your UY.
> 
> Two other items to consider is that closing costs are higher on resale than direct (on direct you can ask for no title insurance if you want for more of a savings), direct purchase dues for 2022 on VGF will be prorated after the resort opens or once your UY starts. Most resale contracts if they come with 2022 points want you to reimburse them for this year.
> Many resale contracts are stripped, no points until 2023, direct you will receive 2022 points.
> 
> You definitely have time to shop around as the new pricing is good until June 1st.  Good Luck.





pianomanzano said:


> Most of the good "deals" in resale are most likely gone, since most sellers either went on board and lowered their listings (and got offers right away) or took their listings off the market when VGF2 started. There's only 5 or so listings across all the resale sites in that point range that have prices reflecting pre-VGF2. Doesn't hurt to try though! On the ROFR board, someone got a 200+ contract at $144pp and there were two recent passes at $158pp and $170pp for smaller contracts, so they're not taking any VGF right now. Good luck!



Thank you both, lots to think about it.

By the way, haven't seen it mentioned here yet, but new members can't make a reservation with their new points until April 11th (and it has to be after the BPK opening date, regardless of where you're trying to reserve.)


----------



## MiraclesTakeTime

Sandisw said:


> It does have 6 years less and a slightly higher points chart  but for many it may not matter, especially if VGF is preferred over RIV.



Definitely another consideration. Why does this have to be so hard...


----------



## RoseGold

OnThisMagicNight said:


> If I'm being honest, it's probably not just the price, but all the bad press about Disney these past few days is starting to get to me too. Disney has always been our happy place, our escape from the "real world" and now it's become yet another divisive topic for people to argue about



I agree the math (before today) was excellent, but I can't get behind a lot of the recent decisions.  Holding DVC feels too risky to me to buy direct.  And I seriously considered selling and buying developer VGF points.

I think even the new incentives are very good mathematically, but that's with a lot of assumptions with the way Disney and DVC hold value. I'm not sure those are as true as they once were.


----------



## Sandisw

MiraclesTakeTime said:


> Definitely another consideration. Why does this have to be so hard...



I think this is going to be a good match up for new buyers to decide. 

IMO, it’s still about where you want to be. I will add that SV rooms at RIV will be harder to get as a non owner so if you want to stay you need to consider the charts for PV as those are more likely at 7 months.


----------



## Chuck96

I'm a bit frustrated myself, having recently committed (mentally) to finally buying in at DVC.  I was vacillating between 150 and 175 points.  With the recent bad press (which will only worsen for a while), and the fiscal uncertainty, I am wavering a bit.

That said, it's a long term proposition.  Disney will eventually have another renaissance (artistically and in terms of customer experience) - it is in their DNA.  I just have to accept that may be a few years (and years) away.  I'm 96% certain I will still purchase 150 points at VGF, because if I'm truly going to join DVC, now is the best time in terms of value proposition with VGF2.  Even with these mediocre incentives for new members.


----------



## sndral

lorie13 said:


> IMO if you are not receiving at least a 20% - 30% discount on a large contract, then I would go direct.
> One of the best things about going direct is splitting the contract into smaller contracts. If you are looking for 300 points, you could do 3 100 point contracts and you can pick your UY.
> …


People keep recommending that new direct buyers split their contracts like this - but I thought w/ the 150 minimum a non member must buy at least one 150 point contract - am I understanding the current rules correctly?
That said 2X 150 makes sense if you don’t mind doubling the closing costs & want an exit/downsizing strategy.
Have there been any reports about which use years they are offering? I know in the recent past new buyers have sometimes had to push to get a use year that was different than what was offered.


----------



## Sandisw

sndral said:


> People keep recommending that new direct buyers split their contracts like this - but I thought w/ the 150 minimum a non member must buy at least one 150 point contract - am I understanding the current rules correctly?
> That said 2X 150 makes sense if you don’t mind doubling the closing costs & want an exit/downsizing strategy.
> Have there been any reports about which use years they are offering? I know in the recent past new buyers have sometimes had to push to get a use year that was different than what was offered.



New buyers must have one at 150.  The rest can then be split as low as 50.


----------



## Dyefrog

Chuck96 said:


> I'm a bit frustrated myself, having recently committed (mentally) to finally buying in at DVC.  I was vacillating between 150 and 175 points.  With the recent bad press (which will only worsen for a while), and the fiscal uncertainty, I am wavering a bit.
> 
> That said, it's a long term proposition.  Disney will eventually have another renaissance (artistically and in terms of customer experience) - it is in their DNA.  I just have to accept that may be a few years (and years) away.  I'm 96% certain I will still purchase 150 points at VGF, because if I'm truly going to join DVC, now is the best time in terms of value proposition with VGF2.  Even with these mediocre incentives for new members.


I'm in a similar dilemma. Was hoping to get new member incentives that brought the pp cost to the mid $190's for 200 points. Where I ended up, using my $500 dream in forward credit (thank you to you know who), it works out to $200.50pp. Bumps my budget about $1,800 more for the blue card.
There's so much subjective reasoning between justifying the blue card premium and of course, the unknowns down the road concerning perks. What keeps pulling at the FOMO for me is that the minimum points for blue card IMO will continue to rise. It could stay flat for years but inflation being what it is, I'm betting it goes up before it goes down. I'm fairly certain years from now, that $6k-$8k premium over a comparable resale for the blue card will be forgotten. And when you factor in all the conveniences buying direct, there's a value to that, just how much depends on each individual.
Once I have the blue card (one contract will be 150 points and the other 50), that qualifying contract will never be sold until the family wants out. All future addonitis contracts most likely would be resale for me.


----------



## Cyberc1978

Sandisw said:


> I guess I will be doing that for sure.  I thought the micro was all that was missing.
> 
> Toaster is a big deal for me.


As long as they will bring it when you ask for it it’s no problem. However the cooler is another animal. If It can’t hold my milk cold then it’s an issue. 

I guess I can’t ask for a fridge


----------



## Cyberc1978

hglenn said:


> Is it just the title insurance that reduces the closing costs on direct? Any idea how much that is?


I got 50 points contracts and the closing without title insurance was $91 on each.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

wnielsen1 said:


> It will be interesting to see if the room amenities evolve over time.  Certainly they can fit a microwave and a toaster somewhere.  I guess we'll find out when it opens and they start getting regular feedback.



There is a gigantic space just across from the bathroom.  You know - where the kitchenettes normally go.   Instead they put a credenza type table there with a little seat underneath that you can pull out.  Since there's no other table like studios normally have I imagine that was the purpose although it's more like a makeup table if you recall those only without the mirrors.   Plenty well sized for microwave, toaster and coffee pot and fridge underneath vs the little cubby they are building in.  

Instead of outfitting it like DVC they are just redecorating a hotel room and selling them as DVC.  

Twice I was told if certain kitchenette amenities were deal breakers then just book the Deluxe studio.  At that point the guide knew I owned DVC but did not know I already owned at VGF so that is what prospective buyers are being told.


----------



## MickeyMice

as a proud "i-don't-need-no-stinkin-blue-card" resale owner, i just bought 200 direct (split 150/50) yesterday. i waived title insurance, but paid the $250 doc fee 2x over. anyone know of any success haggling DVD down to one doc fee for this, or is paying it 2x standard?

bad deal for all the prospective first time direct buyers today. i'm not sure i understand the grand strategy here - the incentive for add-on was so good that i bought in when i really wasn't considering it, but now so disappointing for prospective new owners who otherwise were chomping at the bit.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

RKS03 said:


> That’s a bummer.  How much extra could a regular mini fridge have cost?



I doubt it would have cost anymore actually.


----------



## KAT4DISNEY

MickeyMice said:


> as a proud "i-don't-need-no-stinkin-blue-card" resale owner, i just bought 200 direct (split 150/50) yesterday. i waived title insurance, but paid the $250 doc fee 2x over. anyone know of any success haggling DVD down to one doc fee for this, or is paying it 2x standard?
> 
> bad deal for all the prospective first time direct buyers today. i'm not sure i understand the grand strategy here - the incentive for add-on was so good that i bought in when i really wasn't considering it, but now so disappointing for prospective new owners who otherwise were chomping at the bit.



Doc fees you aren't going to get taken off.


----------



## wnielsen1

MickeyMice said:


> as a proud "i-don't-need-no-stinkin-blue-card" resale owner, i just bought 200 direct (split 150/50) yesterday. i waived title insurance, but paid the $250 doc fee 2x over. anyone know of any success haggling DVD down to one doc fee for this, or is paying it 2x standard?
> 
> bad deal for all the prospective first time direct buyers today. i'm not sure i understand the grand strategy here - the incentive for add-on was so good that i bought in when i really wasn't considering it, but now so disappointing for prospective new owners who otherwise were chomping at the bit.


Paying it is standard now.  It wasn't always like that.  When I bought CCV in 2017, I paid $100 for a doc fee on the 1st contract and $0 on the 2nd contract.


----------



## RoseGold

KAT4DISNEY said:


> Twice I was told if certain kitchenette amenities were deal breakers then just book the Deluxe studio. At that point the guide knew I owned DVC but did not know I already owned at VGF so that is what prospective buyers are being told.



If you look at availability right now, that seems to be the case.  VGF1 studios are wide open -- that's crazy!  It looks like everyone booked in VGF2, like I did.


----------



## wnielsen1

KAT4DISNEY said:


> There is a gigantic space just across from the bathroom.  You know - where the kitchenettes normally go.   Instead they put a credenza type table there with a little seat underneath that you can pull out.  Since there's no other table like studios normally have I imagine that was the purpose although it's more like a makeup table if you recall those only without the mirrors.   Plenty well sized for microwave, toaster and coffee pot and fridge underneath vs the little cubby they are building in.
> 
> Instead of outfitting it like DVC they are just redecorating a hotel room and selling them as DVC.
> 
> Twice I was told if certain kitchenette amenities were deal breakers then just book the Deluxe studio.  At that point the guide knew I owned DVC but did not know I already owned at VGF so that is what prospective buyers are being told.


Thanks Kathy.  I was going to tour VGF in July during a stay at the Poly, but I think I will just save the time.


----------



## eticketplease

Sandisw said:


> I will add that SV rooms at RIV will be harder to get as a non owner so if you want to stay you need to consider the charts for PV as those are more likely at 7 months.



This is so true and one of the main reasons to own there.
Based on a week stay on 2023 chart, the point costs increase by a minimum of 22% for Studios, 18% for a 1 Bedroom and 14% for a 2 Bedroom.


----------



## rick1zoo2

So today we bought 200 points at VGF2 in person at the GF. And added some points to our AKL. Since we got the quote before the price increase was announced for AKL, they honored the old price. Two years ago we bought 117 points at AKL (was all they had), so now we are buying 33 to get to an even 150.


----------



## poofyo101

Cyberc1978 said:


> I got 50 points contracts and the closing without title insurance was $91 on each.


Recently? I think mine was like 250?


----------



## Dyefrog

Cyberc1978 said:


> I got 50 points contracts and the closing without title insurance was $91 on each.


I'm curious why your closing cost is so much lower than what I was quoted. My agent quoted $487.20 each for a 150 point and a 50 point contract. Total closing costs for both were $974.40. He was baffled why they were both the same so I'm waiting to see the paperwork before I sign anything.
Edit: agent just called with corrected numbers and it's $829.50 closing costs for both. I'd be curious what others are being quoted as some did the same breakdown. I also opted out of title insurance.


----------



## Chuck96

All that is left is the screaming and crying.  And signing and payment.  Spoke with my DVC rep, and I'm about to join the cult.  Appreciate the advice and insight in the thread.  Nothing is done until it's done (money gone, points in, first stay booked), of course.  But the promise has been made.


----------



## wnielsen1

Chuck96 said:


> All that is left is the screaming and crying.  And signing and payment.  Spoke with my DVC rep, and I'm about to join the cult.  Appreciate the advice and insight in the thread.  Nothing is done until it's done (money gone, points in, first stay booked), of course.  But the promise has been made.


Welcome home (soon) and start socking money away for the inevitable add-ons.


----------



## KTownRaider

KAT4DISNEY said:


> There is a gigantic space just across from the bathroom. You know - where the kitchenettes normally go. Instead they put a credenza type table there with a little seat underneath that you can pull out.


Missed opportunity for DVC room tour guides to feature that doorway 'credenza type table' as a 'kitchenette-staging surface' since that is essentially what it'll become when guests (like our esteemed moderator) start requesting a microwave, and/or toaster, and/or coffee pot...

Congrats to all members who got in before the opening incentives expired yesterday!


----------



## OnThisMagicNight

Chuck96 said:


> All that is left is the screaming and crying.  And signing and payment.  Spoke with my DVC rep, and I'm about to join the cult.  Appreciate the advice and insight in the thread.  Nothing is done until it's done (money gone, points in, first stay booked), of course.  But the promise has been made.



Congrats and Welcome Home!  I'll probably still move forward also but we decided to take a few days and think it over now.


----------



## Docwheeze

Wow!  This is the best board for novices to learn about the DVC!  Thanks to all of you for your help.  Just bought two contracts at VGF for 200, split 150 and 50 per your suggestions.  Offered Feb UY.  Not crazy about the reduced incentives for new members but now part of the club.  We have a 4 y/o son and figure this will be ideal for him to be close to MK and ride the monorail.  Plan to add-on at some point for an Epcot centric resort.  Any suggestions?  Thanks again.


----------



## Sandisw

Docwheeze said:


> Wow!  This is the best board for novices to learn about the DVC!  Thanks to all of you for your help.  Just bought two contracts at VGF for 200, split 150 and 50 per your suggestions.  Offered Feb UY.  Not crazy about the reduced incentives for new members but now part of the club.  We have a 4 y/o son and figure this will be ideal for him to be close to MK and ride the monorail.  Plan to add-on at some point for an Epcot centric resort.  Any suggestions?  Thanks again.



I love RIV so IMO owning that and VGF gives you both without having to choose one of the 2042 resorts.


----------



## Cyberc1978

Dyefrog said:


> I'm curious why your closing cost is so much lower than what I was quoted. My agent quoted $487.20 each for a 150 point and a 50 point contract. Total closing costs for both were $974.40. He was baffled why they were both the same so I'm waiting to see the paperwork before I sign anything.
> Edit: agent just called with corrected numbers and it's $829.50 closing costs for both. I'd be curious what others are being quoted as some did the same breakdown. I also opted out of title insurance.


The closing was $91 but on top there was the document fee of $250.


----------



## Cyberc1978

poofyo101 said:


> Recently? I think mine was like 250?


That was the document fee I had that too on top of the closing.

It was last week


----------



## Dyefrog

Cyberc1978 said:


> The closing was $91 but on top there was the document fee of $250.


Now it makes perfect sense. My 150 point sans title insurance was $487.20 and if I add in the $341 for the 50 point contract you quoted, that gets me to my total of $829ish for 200 total points split into 2 contracts.

On a somewhat related topic as there are others here like me that are new to DVC, I asked about how many guests a member can invite for Moonlight Magic. I have 4 people on the deed, myself and 3 of my children as I will not always be there when they are so I wanted to make sure that they had blue card privileges. The maximum amount of guests is 4 per contract, not member. So if we have a large gathering, only a total of 4 can go as long as at least one of us on the deed goes. I also heard that you can only go once per year but my guide couldn't verify.


----------



## CarolynFH

Dyefrog said:


> I also heard that you can only go once per year but my guide couldn't verify.


You can go once per park each year, so this year a given member could go to Epcot, DHS and AK once each.


----------



## Sandisw

Dyefrog said:


> Now it makes perfect sense. My 150 point sans title insurance was $487.20 and if I add in the $341 for the 50 point contract you quoted, that gets me to my total of $829ish for 200 total points split into 2 contracts.
> 
> On a somewhat related topic as there are others here like me that are new to DVC, I asked about how many guests a member can invite for Moonlight Magic. I have 4 people on the deed, myself and 3 of my children as I will not always be there when they are so I wanted to make sure that they had blue card privileges. The maximum amount of guests is 4 per contract, not member. So if we have a large gathering, only a total of 4 can go as long as at least one of us on the deed goes. I also heard that you can only go once per year but my guide couldn't verify.



If you have a reservation for a room that has more guests you can get it for them too.  So, if you had a 2 bedroom with 8, you’d get 8 as long as everyone is on the reservation within the timeline that is required.


----------



## HappyDisneyWife

rubybutt said:


> They told me know, but please let us know if it works!


It was a hard no (to buy RIV in combo with VGF, even using only the lesser discount). In order to qualify for incentives, they must be the same offer on each property. Sad, but expected.


----------



## SleeplessInTO

Sandisw said:


> ETA: They are going to love me when I try it for one night in JUly..please send me a real coffee pot, a toaster, and a microwave!


So, everything but the kitchen(ette) sink?


----------



## M:SpilotISTC12

Going to probably add 85 points direct in the next day or so. Do I need title insurance if I'm buying direct? Seems a bit silly to get it if I'm getting right from DVC. Any reason to get it?


----------



## tidefan

M:SpilotISTC12 said:


> Going to probably add 85 points direct in the next day or so. Do I need title insurance if I'm buying direct? Seems a bit silly to get it if I'm getting right from DVC. Any reason to get it?


Ah, the good ole days when closing costs were eaten by DVC.  We didn’t have to worry about things like this…

To answer your question, though, not sure why you’d need it direct from DVC…


----------



## Cyberc1978

M:SpilotISTC12 said:


> Going to probably add 85 points direct in the next day or so. Do I need title insurance if I'm buying direct? Seems a bit silly to get it if I'm getting right from DVC. Any reason to get it?


I didn’t get the title insurance. For a 50 points contract I paid $91 in closing costs plus the dreadful document fee of $250.


----------



## M:SpilotISTC12

Cyberc1978 said:


> I didn’t get the title insurance. For a 50 points contract I paid $91 in closing costs plus the dreadful document fee of $250.


Wow only $91!? For 85 points they are telling me it's $333 for closing and $250 doc fee.


----------



## DKZB

M:SpilotISTC12 said:


> Wow only $91!? For 85 points they are telling me it's $333 for closing and $250 doc fee.


I can't imagine it is $333 + Doc Fee without title insurance

Here are the prices I just paid on VGF2 Closing
50 point contracts were $91.30 + Doc Fee
75 point contract was $127.70 + Doc Fee
125 point contract was $199.80 + Doc Fee


----------



## DKZB

First, let me say, it stinks that New Members are looking at much higher prices to buy into VGF2. If I were a new member, I would probably be pissed.

That said, I had a small concern that the LOW initial price would have a meaningful long term impact in resale prices. Before this offer, I owned 700+ points all resale with 220 at VGF. I didn't want to own Aulani, I wouldn't buy into the RIV resale restrictions and Sold Out prices were crazy. With the initial VGF2 incentives, i couldn't pass up the opportunity to buy 300 direct points for $179/point. It seems that may others thought that way also.

Now that the incentives have been reduced, ESPECIALLY for new members, I think we are likely to see resale prices return to the $170s and $180s which is good long term for all owners. Cynically, I am sort of happy they reduced the incentives as much as they did even though I feel terrible for New Members who were waiting to buy.


----------



## plenihan07

DKZB said:


> First, let me say, it stinks that New Members are looking at much higher prices to buy into VGF2. If I were a new member, I would probably be pissed.
> 
> That said, I had a small concern that the LOW initial price would have a meaningful long term impact in resale prices. Before this offer, I owned 700+ points all resale with 220 at VGF. I didn't want to own Aulani, I wouldn't buy into the RIV resale restrictions and Sold Out prices were crazy. With the initial VGF2 incentives, i couldn't pass up the opportunity to buy 300 direct points for $179/point. It seems that may others thought that way also.
> 
> Now that the incentives have been reduced, ESPECIALLY for new members, I think we are likely to see resale prices return to the $170s and $180s which is good long term for all owners. Cynically, I am sort of happy they reduced the incentives as much as they did even though I feel terrible for New Members who were waiting to buy.


As a new member who had been waiting to buy in, I can say it’s disappointing that the incentives were lower than expected, but it seems to be in line with the RIV pricing difference. For members, looks like both RIV and VGF are now $8-$9 cheaper at least at the 200/250 point prices. I believe the incentives were cut for Members (which I assume then flowed to non-Members) based on what had been previously published. Instead of $17 off at 200, it’s only $12 for members for example. 

That being said we happily signed up yesterday for 250 at VGF, after having been considering for about 2.5 years. We couldn’t be more excited, especially with our first kid on the way.


----------



## hglenn

DKZB said:


> First, let me say, it stinks that New Members are looking at much higher prices to buy into VGF2. If I were a new member, I would probably be pissed.
> 
> That said, I had a small concern that the LOW initial price would have a meaningful long term impact in resale prices. Before this offer, I owned 700+ points all resale with 220 at VGF. I didn't want to own Aulani, I wouldn't buy into the RIV resale restrictions and Sold Out prices were crazy. With the initial VGF2 incentives, i couldn't pass up the opportunity to buy 300 direct points for $179/point. It seems that may others thought that way also.
> 
> Now that the incentives have been reduced, ESPECIALLY for new members, I think we are likely to see resale prices return to the $170s and $180s which is good long term for all owners. Cynically, I am sort of happy they reduced the incentives as much as they did even though I feel terrible for New Members who were waiting to buy.


As a new member who had hopes of buying into VGF2, I agree with you. At the end of the day, though, the way Disney controls resale is what keeps the value in the program - which is a huge differentiator in this program over other time shares and, for me, what makes it even appealing at all.....


----------



## Chuck96

I think pissed would be too strong a word for my response.  Disappointed is more apropos, and I admit that the lack of meaningful incentives certainly affected my choice between 150 or 175 points.  But in the end, the $207 was what got me in the door.  TBH, I am more upset about the proposed modernization and IP incorporation currently being prepped for VGF, since I bought there because of the existing (gentle) theming.  But as I said yesterday, it's a 40 year contract, so I'm hopeful that they'll be making decisions I like more in years to come.  And I assume that VGF will retain enough of its faux Victorian charms to remain pleasant and unique.


----------



## Lucky Wall-E

Sandisw said:


> New buyers must have one at 150.  The rest can then be split as low as 50.


The guide I spoke with yesterday is willing to let me buy a 150 and a 25pt. for a total of 175.  However, I am wondering if I should buy 50 instead of 25. I am buying the extra points as a buffer of 10-20% of what I think I need as suggested earlier in this thread. 
My questions is about the future. Since the future is always unknown, there may come a time I need to sell some of my points.  Does anyone think a 25 pt would not offer much for resale buyer compared to a 50 pt? The 25 point could maybe buy 3-4 nights in a studio if the points are banked and borrowed. If banked and borrowed, a 50 pt would be about 7 nights in a studio  or possibly 3 nights in a 2 bedroom. As far as transferring points from one contract to another, 25 points might seem really small to work with. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.


----------



## Sandisw

M:SpilotISTC12 said:


> Wow only $91!? For 85 points they are telling me it's $333 for closing and $250 doc fee.


 I have noticed the resort can make a difference because of the taxes, etc. that are applied.  Get a breakdown of each element.   For my VGF 150, it was $236 plus $250, if I don't include the title insurance (which I did pay).  That $333 sounds correct if it has the title insurance in it which will always be quoted at the start.


----------



## Sandisw

Lucky Wall-E said:


> The guide I spoke with yesterday is willing to let me buy a 150 and a 25pt. for a total of 175.  However, I am wondering if I should buy 50 instead of 25. I am buying the extra points as a buffer of 10-20% of what I think I need as suggested earlier in this thread.
> My questions is about the future. Since the future is always unknown, there may come a time I need to sell some of my points.  Does anyone think a 25 pt would not offer much for resale buyer compared to a 50 pt? The 25 point could maybe buy 3-4 nights in a studio if the points are banked and borrowed. If banked and borrowed, a 50 pt would be about 7 nights in a studio  or possibly 3 nights in a 2 bedroom. As far as transferring points from one contract to another, 25 points might seem really small to work with. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.


 Just be prepared that they may come back and not allow the 25 point contract to go through.  Sometimes guides say yes, and then QA does not approve.  The minimum for add on is now 50 points for VGF.  But, IMO, I would always opt for more if I can swing it, especially if your incentive goes up, even a little from 175 to 200.


----------



## CarolMN

Lucky Wall-E said:


> The guide I spoke with yesterday is willing to let me buy a 150 and a 25pt. for a total of 175.  However, I am wondering if I should buy 50 instead of 25. I am buying the extra points as a buffer of 10-20% of what I think I need as suggested earlier in this thread.
> My questions is about the future. Since the future is always unknown, there may come a time I need to sell some of my points.  Does anyone think a 25 pt would not offer much for resale buyer compared to a 50 pt? The 25 point could maybe buy 3-4 nights in a studio if the points are banked and borrowed. If banked and borrowed, a 50 pt would be about 7 nights in a studio  or possibly 3 nights in a 2 bedroom. As far as transferring points from one contract to another, 25 points might seem really small to work with. Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.


I wonder if the guide promised something (25) that might not actually make it through.   

If you can afford 50, I'd go with 50.  A 25 point contract just doesn't get you much at VGF, and it would be an anomaly.  AFAIK, we have not ever been able to buy a 25 point add-on for VGF.

Good luck with your decision.


----------



## Aela

M:SpilotISTC12 said:


> Wow only $91!? For 85 points they are telling me it's $333 for closing and $250 doc fee.


Make absolutely sure they are removing the title insurance.  I asked for it to be taken off (twice), and was quoted 559+250. I confirmed that the title insurance was removed, it wasn’t!  Then it dropped it to 380+250.  150 points, VGF new member


----------



## Aela

Sandisw said:


> I have noticed the resort can make a difference because of the taxes, etc. that are applied.  Get a breakdown of each element.   For my VGF 150, it was $236 plus $250, if I don't include the title insurance (which I did pay).  That $333 sounds correct if it has the title insurance in it which will always be quoted at the start.


Plus you are not a new member correct?  So your rate will be lower.


----------



## Lucky Wall-E

CarolMN said:


> I wonder if the guide promised something (25) that might not actually make it through.
> 
> If you can afford 50, I'd go with 50.  A 25 point contract just doesn't get you much at VGF, and it would be an anomaly.  AFAIK, we have not ever been able to buy a 25 point add-on for VGF.
> 
> Good luck with your decision.


Okay, thanks.  I was thinking of just making it a full 175 contract so as not to have to mess with a small one.  But I do see the values in having  a separate 50 pt as well.  I'll think a little on this.


----------



## Sandisw

Aela said:


> Plus you are not a new member correct?  So your rate will be lower.


There is not discount on closing costs for new vs current members. Those fees were recording of deed and taxes paid to the county. 

Everyone pays the $250 document prep fee now.  As mentioned, the only thing optimal is title insurance which is included automatically unless one asks for it to be removed.


----------



## Red Dog Run

I must be blind of frustrated.  Where is the new incentive list? I looked at my add on tool, but it only says to request the points I want.


----------



## Aela

Sandisw said:


> There is not discount on closing costs for new vs current members. Those fees were recording of deed and taxes paid to the county.
> 
> Everyone pays the $250 document prep fee now.  As mentioned, the only thing optimal is title insurance which is included automatically unless one asks for it to be removed.


You pay less per point, so as a previous member your closing costs should be less.


----------



## MiraclesTakeTime

Sandisw said:


> There is not discount on closing costs for new vs current members. Those fees were recording of deed and taxes paid to the county.
> 
> Everyone pays the $250 document prep fee now.  As mentioned, the only thing optimal is title insurance which is included automatically unless one asks for it to be removed.



Wouldn't it be a good thing to have title insurance? What would be the purpose in having it removed?


----------



## Aela

MiraclesTakeTime said:


> Wouldn't it be a good thing to have title insurance? What would be the purpose in having it removed?


Since you are buying directly from Disney, the title doesn’t need to be confirmed.  Assuming you trust that Disney is honest with you about the title being clear.. in resale market, 100% get title insurance!


----------



## MiraclesTakeTime

Aela said:


> Since you are buying directly from Disney, the title doesn’t need to be confirmed.  Assuming you trust that Disney is honest with you about the title being clear.. in resale market, 100% get title insurance!



Thank you for this clarification!


----------



## Sandisw

Aela said:


> You pay less per point, so as a previous member your closing costs should be less.



I see what you mean but I was talking g what what is actually charged which isn’t based on being an owner but price one is paying. 

If both a current and new owner bought 150 points today at SSR which has no incentives then closing costs are the same.


----------



## Sandisw

MiraclesTakeTime said:


> Wouldn't it be a good thing to have title insurance? What would be the purpose in having it removed?



I know many think that buying from the developer ensures it’s not needed but the insurance helps in case something  happens. 

For me, it wasn’t enough for me not to keep it because in the end, my luck would be that an issue happened.


----------



## Aela

Sandisw said:


> I see what you mean but I was talking g what what is actually charged which isn’t based on being an owner but price one is paying.
> 
> If both a current and new owner bought 150 points today at SSR which has no incentives then closing costs are the same.


Correct!  I was just confirming why your closing cost so much less then my 150 points at VGF!


----------



## Docwheeze

Disappointed?  Yes, as a new member.  But overall, VGF remains an attractive property to become an owner.  Looking at the original survey for this thread, 79% of respondents anticipated a higher price than Riviera with 56% a much higher price.  It is not.  Additionally, in southern California we are well aware of the Hotel del Coronado which Grand Floridian was modeled after.  It was in somewhat disrepair 30 years ago until a major refurbishment restored the hotel to its previous glory and now as popular as ever.  GFV is a flagship hotel for WDW and I can't imagine Disney would not do everything to maintain and increase its value which is beneficial for all DVC owners.  So overall happy to have the opportunity to own here.


----------



## Docwheeze

Excuse me, correction.  23% a much higher price.  Sorry.  And once again thanks to all of you for the great feedback on buying into DVC.


----------



## Aela

Docwheeze said:


> Disappointed?  Yes, as a new member.  But overall, VGF remains an attractive property to become an owner.  Looking at the original survey for this thread, 79% of respondents anticipated a higher price than Riviera with 56% a much higher price.  It is not.  Additionally, in southern California we are well aware of the Hotel del Coronado which Grand Floridian was modeled after.  It was in somewhat disrepair 30 years ago until a major refurbishment restored the hotel to its previous glory and now as popular as ever.  GFV is a flagship hotel for WDW and I can't imagine Disney would not do everything to maintain and increase its value which is beneficial for all DVC owners.  So overall happy to have the opportunity to own here.


Exactly, we bought today.. And we just could not see Riviera being worth it, even with all the bonuses. The fees are so high we’re paying less per month at grand Floridian then we would have been at Riviera


----------



## sethschroeder

Aela said:


> Exactly, we bought today.. And we just could not see Riviera being worth it, even with all the bonuses. The fees are so high we’re paying less per month at grand Floridian then we would have been at Riviera



Eh its not a big enough difference to swing you one way or another IMO

VGF requires more points so that makes up some of the difference, also RIV will continue to have lower MF increases than VGF for another couple years so the gap will close on MF difference.

As an example: (1 week in October in Studio)

RoomPointsMFCost/WkRIV TS116​$8.3840​$972.54​VGF Std158​$7.0077​$1,107.22​RIV Std139​$8.3840​$1,165.38​VGF Lake188​$7.0077​$1,317.45​RIV Pref176​$8.3840​$1,475.58​VGF TP232​$7.0077​$1,625.79​

So you are looking at annually:
Tower Studio (VGF has no comparison)
Standard = RIV $58/yr extra
Pref/Lake = RIV $158/yr extra
Theme Park (RIV has no real comparison - you get fireworks views from various Standard rooms but not guaranteed)

Just looking at the the price difference savings on initial purchase:
150 Points = $4/point savings for RIV ($600)
200 Points = $7/point savings for RIV ($1400)

In the end choose the resort based on the one you like. Things change and MFs have shown to continually be flat for Riviera at the current time to come close to in line with other resorts to make it fairly minor of a difference.


----------



## Ruttangel

sethschroeder said:


> Eh its not a big enough difference to swing you one way or another IMO
> 
> VGF requires more points so that makes up some of the difference, also RIV will continue to have lower MF increases than VGF for another couple years so the gap will close on MF difference.
> 
> As an example: (1 week in October in Studio)
> 
> RoomPointsMFCost/WkRIV TS116​$8.3840​$972.54​VGF Std158​$7.0077​$1,107.22​RIV Std139​$8.3840​$1,165.38​VGF Lake188​$7.0077​$1,317.45​RIV Pref176​$8.3840​$1,475.58​VGF TP232​$7.0077​$1,625.79​
> 
> So you are looking at annually:
> Tower Studio (VGF has no comparison)
> Standard = RIV $58/yr extra
> Pref/Lake = RIV $158/yr extra
> Theme Park (RIV has no real comparison - you get fireworks views from various Standard rooms but not guaranteed)
> 
> Just looking at the the price difference savings on initial purchase:
> 150 Points = $4/point savings for RIV ($600)
> 200 Points = $7/point savings for RIV ($1400)
> 
> In the end choose the resort based on the one you like. Things change and MFs have shown to continually be flat for Riviera at the current time to come close to in line with other resorts to make it fairly minor of a difference.


I think you could make an argument that VGF will have low dues for a long time as the general fixed costs spilt over more owners now but we will see in December 
I use very similar analysis but VGF likely worth more on resale market, so true cost when holding for 10 years would be different. 
Tower Studios are vvv hard to get and obviously just for couples so not sure how relevant to most families.


----------



## sndral

MiraclesTakeTime said:


> Wouldn't it be a good thing to have title insurance? What would be the purpose in having it removed?


I opted to have title insurance removed since I was comfortable doing so w/ a direct purchase.
Title insurance protects the buyer from defects in title - like liens against the property (for example from unpaid construction costs, unpaid taxes, etc.,) or adverse claims (like disputes to ownership via a contested will or probate, or divorce property disputes) or forgery/fraud, or clerical mistakes in recording, etc..
Since DVC is creating brand new titles for the ownership interests in VGF2 one category of possible issues - from prior owners - didn’t exist & I figured the probability that the other category - from unpaid liens like construction or tax liens against DVC - to be very low & any clerical errors could be remedied.
In my resale purchases I’ve always paid for title insurance - because there were prior owners & thus the risk of adverse claims or issues w/ unpaid liens was much higher.


----------



## Cyberc1978

M:SpilotISTC12 said:


> Wow only $91!? For 85 points they are telling me it's $333 for closing and $250 doc fee.


Yup $91. I assume yours of $333 is either wrong or for more points?


----------



## MickeyMice

Docwheeze said:


> GFV is a flagship hotel for WDW and I can't imagine Disney would not do everything to maintain and increase its value which is beneficial for all DVC owners.



yes, this is part of what convinced me to buy. i feel like there will always be rental/resale demand for GFV if/when i want to tap into it. congrats!


----------



## CarolMN

Sandisw said:


> I know many think that buying from the developer ensures it’s not needed but the insurance helps in case something happens.


And to add, if something does turn out to be "hinky" with the title, the insurance provider will take care of it.  Otherwise you are on your own.  In most cases, problems with the title aren't discovered until it's time to sell.  For example,  Disney and County employees aren't infallible.  Clerical errors happen.

I agree with Sandi.  Cost relative to the total is quite minor.  I am happy to pay it to transfer a very small risk that, if it happens,  can turn into a very big hassle at a time I (or my heirs) don't  need one.


----------



## tjkraz

Ruttangel said:


> I think you could make an argument that VGF will have low dues for a long time as the general fixed costs spilt over more owners now but we will see in December


Grand Floridian is adding more owners, but also picking up a larger portion of the resort's operating costs. This has happened a number of times in the past. Saratoga Springs continued to grow as it was built-out in at least 4 separate phases over the span of about 8 years. Jambo House villas opened about 2 years before Kidani. In those cases, the dues were pretty steady as the expansions occurred. It's more rooms, but also more operating costs to absorb. Equilibrium. 

In the case of Riviera, it appears DVC intentional budgeted high from the start. Probably a wise thing given that it was an entirely new resort with an entirely new transportation option. 

Whatever the reasons, Riviera dues have increased only seven cents in 3 years. *IF* that holds up for a couple more years, it will close the gap considerably with VGF. But that's completely hypothetical. 

Right now Riviera dues are 19% higher than VGF. There's no real reason to think that gap will grow larger. It has the potential to get smaller, depending on how conservatively DVC has been budgeting Riviera.


----------



## MickeyMice

i think any comparison between VGF and RIV has to consider the significant immediate depreciation of a RIV contract due to the restrictions. i'm not madly in love with VGF over other options but i like it enough and i think it's a safe (for DVC) investment. i think you need to be a RIV superfan to buy there.

(sorry if this horse is dead)


----------



## MomOTwins

Aela said:


> Since you are buying directly from Disney, the title doesn’t need to be confirmed.  Assuming you trust that Disney is honest with you about the title being clear.. in resale market, 100% get title insurance!


I guess I'm just curious, when Disney exercises ROFR and buys back points from an owner, then sells those points to a new buyer, is the ownership history "wiped clean" or are you stuck with whatever title issues may have attached to the points under the prior owner.  Since VGF2 is part of the same condo association, it occurs to me we don't really know if they are selling brand new points, old VGF1 points, or a mix.


----------



## hglenn

MickeyMice said:


> i think any comparison between VGF and RIV has to consider the significant immediate depreciation of a RIV contract due to the restrictions. i'm not madly in love with VGF over other options but i like it enough and i think it's a safe (for DVC) investment. i think you need to be a RIV superfan to buy there.
> 
> (sorry if this horse is dead)


I tend to go back and forth on this one.  That was my original thought, however, now I feel like if I'm going to buy direct, I'll likely by RIV....  Maybe the incentives are just convincing me....  also has 6 more years on the contract


----------



## DKZB

MomOTwins said:


> I guess I'm just curious, when Disney exercises ROFR and buys back points from an owner, then sells those points to a new buyer, is the ownership history "wiped clean" or are you stuck with whatever title issues may have attached to the points under the prior owner.  Since VGF2 is part of the same condo association, it occurs to me we don't really know if they are selling brand new points, old VGF1 points, or a mix.



This was a hotel owned and operated by Disney. It wasn't a DVC (Timeshare) property beforehand. They are not selling VGF1 Deeds.

On your deed it says the unit number and interest in the unit. Title insurance relates to the deed, not the points.


----------



## tjkraz

MickeyMice said:


> i think any comparison between VGF and RIV has to consider the significant immediate depreciation of a RIV contract due to the restrictions. i'm not madly in love with VGF over other options but i like it enough and i think it's a safe (for DVC) investment. i think you need to be a RIV superfan to buy there.
> 
> (sorry if this horse is dead)


So you're committing to 42 years of ownership at a resort that you're "not madly in love with" to avoid some possible future value reduction should the day arrive when you no longer wish to keep the DVC points? 

Interesting.


----------



## MickeyMice

tjkraz said:


> So you're committing to 42 years of ownership at a resort that you're "not madly in love with" to avoid some possible future value reduction should the day arrive when you no longer wish to keep the DVC points?
> 
> Interesting.


i'm not using the phrase offhandedly. VGF has many pluses and some minuses like any other DVC and i have plenty of opportunities to stay elsewhere on the points. and if i can sell the points readily and quite likely without losing much if any value (and probably making money, but who knows) - it's not really that much of a commitment.


----------



## KTownRaider

tjkraz said:


> So you're committing to 42 years of ownership at a resort that you're "not madly in love with" to avoid some possible future value reduction should the day arrive when you no longer wish to keep the DVC points?
> 
> Interesting.


I think MickeyMice is stipulating that VGF has a better, more immediate exit strategy than RIV- thus not requiring a 42 year commitment.

ETA- sorry- didn't see MickeyMice message sent right before mine essentially stating the same point.


----------



## Royal Consort

MickeyMice said:


> i think any comparison between VGF and RIV has to consider the significant immediate depreciation of a RIV contract due to the restrictions.


People state this like its an accepted fact. There is currently no evidence for this. RVA resale has been holding up spectacularly well for a restricted product. Will this always be the case? We just don't know but so far it doesnt appear to buck the resale trend. I anticipate it will always be higher than SSR and OKW.

Buy any resort now direct and you will see a "significant immediate depreciation".


----------



## Sandisw

MickeyMice said:


> i think any comparison between VGF and RIV has to consider the significant immediate depreciation of a RIV contract due to the restrictions. i'm not madly in love with VGF over other options but i like it enough and i think it's a safe (for DVC) investment. i think you need to be a RIV superfan to buy there.
> 
> (sorry if this horse is dead)


Except the depreciation for RIV has not been worse than most in cases of being three years in from initial sales.  We don't know what the future holds for them, but its not doom and gloom. There is a market for resale RIV points.  Now, I am not suggesting anyone should buy it if they don't like it or don't want to stay there.  But, someone who prefers RIV over VGF should not avoid it simply because of the restrictions

Also, one of the reasons, IMO, the value of VGF has had a higher resale price is that it was a small resort and to stay there required one to own.  If we see 7 month bookings in the resort studios readily available for non home resort owners, I think you may see it come down in price.  Not sure one should assume anything when it comes to future resale value with any DVC resort.


----------



## sethschroeder

Ruttangel said:


> Tower Studios are vvv hard to get and obviously just for couples so not sure how relevant to most families.



I easily got it for the first week of December. It could get harder but if booking out at 11 months so far it can be done.



MickeyMice said:


> (sorry if this horse is dead)



Except you are so far off base but we don't know what will occur long term. 

Right now you can turn around and sell RIV between $140-$148 and thats for an active selling resort which at 150 points is $197/point or 71%-75% of the value of direct. 

Long term we don't know but let's not act like RIV resale is selling terribly when it's not. 

Flip side VGF was driven by lack of inventory which was just "flooded" basically doubling the size of the resort. We don't know what that will do either. 

So the factual information is a little off. 

Example when CCV went off the market.
Resale Mar 21 $138-$152
Incentives on 150 points $206
67%-74%

Typically 70% is about the number for resale to direct if I remeber correct.


----------



## tjkraz

MickeyMice said:


> i'm not using the phrase offhandedly. VGF has many pluses and some minuses like any other DVC and i have plenty of opportunities to stay elsewhere on the points. and if i can sell the points readily and quite likely without losing much if any value (and probably making money, but who knows) - it's not really that much of a commitment.



Yeah, like others have said, VGF & Riviera are no different than any other resort with respect to near-term value. Resale always settles around $30-40 per point less than direct. The VGF resale market is skewed right now because direct point came out much lower than anyone expected. Nobody is paying $180-190 per point resale when you can buy direct for under $200 and have points in your account the next day. 

In fact, Riviera comes with the bonus of not only getting 6 additional years on the back end but an extra set of points on the front. Buy Riviera now with a June or later UY and you'll get 2021 points immediately with 2022 points just around the corner. With VGF, nobody gets anything until the start of their 2022 Use Year. 

There are a lot of different reasons for choosing a specific resort. And I'm not saying that Riviera is a better choice for you personally. 

What I am saying is that paying more up front for a resort I only kinda sorta like, in exchange for some perceived higher return down the road is not a decision I would personally make. There's no way to attach a dollar figure to it, but having booking priority at a preferred destination is one of the most valuable aspects to DVC. Regardless of whether that preferred destination is Grand Floridian, Riviera or elsewhere. 

If I'm not booking my home resort at 11 months year after year, I'd load up on SSR or AKV resale points at $60 each less than VGF and take my chances at 7 months.


----------



## MickeyMice

anyone who loves RIV should buy it - I don't think that's up for debate.

but I also think a "flood" of unrestricted VGF2 points cuts into future RIV sales too.

except for occasional short lived incentives, RIV has been the only game in town if you didn't want to pay the sold-out premium. i would never have bought at RIV bc of the restrictions, but i was pursuaded to buy VGF2, and i don't think i'm alone in that respect.


----------



## MickeyMice

tjkraz said:


> In fact, Riviera comes with the bonus of not only getting 6 additional years on the back end but an extra set of points on the front. Buy Riviera now with a June or later UY and you'll get 2021 points immediately with 2022 points just around the corner. With VGF, nobody gets anything until the start of their 2022 Use Year.



that's a fair point i hadn't thought of.



tjkraz said:


> If I'm not booking my home resort at 11 months year after year, I'd load up on SSR or AKV resale points at $60 each less than VGF and take my chances at 7 months.



i think those contracts have been taken left and right in ROFR lately (at least SSR has been).


----------



## Sandisw

MickeyMice said:


> anyone who loves RIV should buy it - I don't think that's up for debate.
> 
> but I also think a "flood" of unrestricted VGF2 points cuts into future RIV sales too.
> 
> except for occasional short lived incentives, RIV has been the only game in town if you didn't want to pay the sold-out premium. i would never have bought at RIV bc of the restrictions, but i was pursuaded to buy VGF2, and i don't think i'm alone in that respect.



You are not alone…but, they have been selling a nice number of points there so many were the opposite and bought in spite of them.

VGF going back into active sales for new buyers will be a new test and give us real info to discuss in terms of it all.

That is what I am looking forward to seeing in a few months.  Will new buyers, now there is a choice, pay slightly more for VGF with 6 years less or go for RIV in the same way as they have before?

Do the VGF sales simply increase total sales or do they actually take away from RIV sales?   Lots of good discussions ahead!


----------



## M:SpilotISTC12

Just added on 85 points direct over the phone. Waiting for the second phone call from DVC. They said they are a little backed up and might get to me either today or tomorrow.


----------



## Docwheeze

Good Investment or bad?  Compared to most timeshares, DVC seems to hold its value more so than other vehicles despite the so called depreciation.  The main investment when it comes to Disney is Family and the value of sharing the magic together.  I know this sounds sentimental but choosing the variety of resorts with different experiences in different locales, near (MK, Epcot, etc.) or far (Paris, Tokyo, DCL, etc.) provides experiences that are well worth the "investment".  As a newbie, the fact that I can resell my points for a reasonable sum 10 to 20 years down the line when my son is grown just makes it that much sweeter!!!


----------



## Royal Consort

Docwheeze said:


> Good Investment or bad?  Compared to most timeshares, DVC seems to hold its value more so than other vehicles despite the so called depreciation.  The main investment when it comes to Disney is Family and the value of sharing the magic together.  I know this sounds sentimental but choosing the variety of resorts with different experiences in different locales, near (MK, Epcot, etc.) or far (Paris, Tokyo, DCL, etc.) provides experiences that are well worth the "investment".  As a newbie, the fact that I can resell my points for a reasonable sum 10 to 20 years down the line when my son is grown just makes it that much sweeter!!!


Bang on. Time is a currency and we must spend it wisely. The value of DVC is in its experiences and happiness it creates. Anything on top of that is an excellent bonus.


----------



## MickeyMice

Docwheeze said:


> Good Investment or bad?  Compared to most timeshares, DVC seems to hold its value more so than other vehicles despite the so called depreciation.  The main investment when it comes to Disney is Family and the value of sharing the magic together.  I know this sounds sentimental but choosing the variety of resorts with different experiences in different locales, near (MK, Epcot, etc.) or far (Paris, Tokyo, DCL, etc.) provides experiences that are well worth the "investment".  As a newbie, the fact that I can resell my points for a reasonable sum 10 to 20 years down the line when my son is grown just makes it that much sweeter!!!



i mean, it's a bit of an echo chamber in here, but i think it's a great investment for a timeshare, possibly better than sitting in cash, but you're not gonna retire off it (obviously).

DCL and disney destinations etc are a poor use of points. they could be decent options in an emergency where you have points to burn, but normally you would do much better renting your points out.


----------



## Slakk

I just did the virtual notary and it was a breeze.  I think DVC is making it way too easy to buy LOL


----------



## M:SpilotISTC12

Slakk said:


> I just did the virtual notary and it was a breeze.  I think DVC is making it way too easy to buy LOL


I’m still waiting on that phone call. Bought them yesterday and waiting on pretty much everything. No movement since they took my credit card number.


----------



## HappyDisneyWife

M:SpilotISTC12 said:


> I’m still waiting on that phone call. Bought them yesterday and waiting on pretty much everything. No movement since they took my credit card number.


I’m glad to hear that I’m not alone in this!! I actually bought on 3/30, but there was a cc hiccup that delayed progress until 3/31… and even though I was told it would be processed “asap”- it’s been crickets ever since


----------



## plenihan07

HappyDisneyWife said:


> I’m glad to hear that I’m not alone in this!! I actually bought on 3/30, but there was a cc hiccup that delayed progress until 3/31… and even though I was told it would be processed “asap”- it’s been crickets ever since


Our guide told us that QA team is understaffed but doing everything they can but it is going to take a few days longer than normal, particularly with what sounds like a huge influx of purchases by new members on 3/31. He said while they typically call you next day, it might be best to call them and try to speak to them or even leave a message. We got a callback a few hours after leaving a message on Friday to start the contract amendment when I discovered they left the title insurance on.


----------



## miTnosnhoJ

plenihan07 said:


> Our guide told us that QA team is understaffed but doing everything they can but it is going to take a few days longer than normal, particularly with what sounds like a huge influx of purchases by new members on 3/31. He said while they typically call you next day, it might be best to call them and try to speak to them or even leave a message. We got a callback a few hours after leaving a message on Friday to start the contract amendment when I discovered they left the title insurance on.


Also, they are working from home.


----------



## HappyDisneyWife

plenihan07 said:


> Our guide told us that QA team is understaffed but doing everything they can but it is going to take a few days longer than normal, particularly with what sounds like a huge influx of purchases by new members on 3/31. He said while they typically call you next day, it might be best to call them and try to speak to them or even leave a message. We got a callback a few hours after leaving a message on Friday to start the contract amendment when I discovered they left the title insurance on.


Who did you call? Was it someone other than your guide?


----------



## plenihan07

HappyDisneyWife said:


> Who did you call? Was it someone other than your guide?


It was the quality assurance group’s phone number you would get from your guide. They will normally call you (based on what my guide said), but these days reaching out to them can help get a response faster given that they are behind with all the new volume and understaffing. I’m basing this off very limited experience as this is our first purchase, other veterans may know more and be able to add some color.


----------



## HappyDisneyWife

plenihan07 said:


> It was the quality assurance group’s phone number you would get from your guide. They will normally call you (based on what my guide said), but these days reaching out to them can help get a response faster given that they are behind with all the new volume and understaffing. I’m basing this off very limited experience as this is our first purchase, other veterans may know more and be able to add some color.


The is actually my 2nd direct purchase. Our first one was in 2017 & was lightning fast!! But I’ve never heard of the QA group… hmmm… 

_Maybe I got the confusion ball rolling when I replied to a statement about waiting for a call. The more I think of it, they were responding to someone who talked about needing a notary. I think a notary is only needed in financed (or international) purchases. Does the QA group have to do with financing too?? Sorry- I don’t know. We chose to pay “cash” (using a credit card for the perks, of course)._


----------



## sndral

HappyDisneyWife said:


> The is actually my 2nd direct purchase. Our first one was in 2017 & was lightning fast!! But I’ve never heard of the QA group… hmmm…
> 
> _Maybe I got the confusion ball rolling when I replied to a statement about waiting for a call. The more I think of it, they were responding to someone who talked about needing a notary. I think a notary is only needed in financed (or international) purchases. Does the QA group have to do with financing too?? Sorry- I don’t know. We chose to pay “cash” (using a credit card for the perks, of course)._


Near as I can tell the QA folks are the paperwork people. I paid cash but called them twice, first when I had questions about the numbers in the contract - the whole developers credit thing confused the heck out of me & during that call it turns out they also had a typo in my son’s email address so his papers had bounced back & we got that corrected. The second time was when they wanted my son to notarize his identity because his DL had his middle name & his name in our membership did not - they decided he didn’t need to do that.


----------



## plenihan07

HappyDisneyWife said:


> The is actually my 2nd direct purchase. Our first one was in 2017 & was lightning fast!! But I’ve never heard of the QA group… hmmm…
> 
> _Maybe I got the confusion ball rolling when I replied to a statement about waiting for a call. The more I think of it, they were responding to someone who talked about needing a notary. I think a notary is only needed in financed (or international) purchases. Does the QA group have to do with financing too?? Sorry- I don’t know. We chose to pay “cash” (using a credit card for the perks, of course)._


Quality Assurance are the ones who actually send the Docusigns and assist you with the contracts. Their number is actually on the Docusign emails as well, at the very bottom. Nothing necessarily to do with financing as we are cash only as well.


----------



## HappyDisneyWife

plenihan07 said:


> Quality Assurance are the ones who actually send the Docusigns and assist you with the contracts. Their number is actually on the Docusign emails as well, at the very bottom. Nothing necessarily to do with financing as we are cash only as well.


Gotcha!! Last time, I’m pretty sure we were given the points right away, and the paperwork showed up in the mail a few days later ?!? So, the DocuSign process feels new to me… but maybe I’m just forgetting 

I haven’t gotten any paperwork or emails from anyone but my guide yet.


----------



## CarolMN

Never got a call from QA.  Bought add-on in early March with first "crush".  Maybe they don't call DVC "vets".  We've been members since 1999.


----------



## Princess Michele

We made our first add on purchase in March and I only talked to QA because we had a question regarding the first payment amount and not receiving an email for the military discount.  We made the appointment online for the virtual notary when we received our documents to sign.  If we had not had any questions we would not have needed to talk to QA.


----------



## RKS03

I didn’t get a call from QA and I only purchased a 25 point direct contract 5 years before.


----------



## HappyDisneyWife

My guide called yesterday morning and explained that part of the issue (for us) was that the extra discount hadn’t loaded properly on the contract, and so he had to prove that I’d spoken to him prior to the initial incentives expiring (thank goodness I had emailed a few times with details!).

I never got a phone call from QA (agree that it must be for first-timers), but got the DocuSign email yesterday while we were on the phone, and points were loaded before we even had a chance to sign!! That’s more like it


----------



## mamaofsix

Does DVC ever draw up paperwork for a closing date for purchase several months down the road?  We want to buy before June 1st to get the current price / incentives, but I don't really want to buy _today._   We'd like a few more months to save up cash and allow our Canadian dollar to go up as it's predicted to.  Is it like a normal real estate purchase, where you can draw up the papers and have the closing date be 60 days out?  

I e-mailed our guide with this question, and they didn't really give a straight-forward answer.  They said "we can only guarantee the price for today.  Even though the price isn't _supposed_  to go up before June 1st, the wording is such that it could go up with no notice*:   'Offers can’t be combined with other select discounts and may be extended, modified, or withdrawn at any time without notice.'  *"


----------



## Sandisw

mamaofsix said:


> Does DVC ever draw up paperwork for a closing date for purchase several months down the road?  We want to buy before June 1st to get the current price / incentives, but I don't really want to buy _today._   We'd like a few more months to save up cash and allow our Canadian dollar to go up as it's predicted to.  Is it like a normal real estate purchase, where you can draw up the papers and have the closing date be 60 days out?
> 
> I e-mailed our guide with this question, and they didn't really give a straight-forward answer.  They said "we can only guarantee the price for today.  Even though the price isn't _supposed_  to go up before June 1st, the wording is such that it could go up with no notice*:   'Offers can’t be combined with other select discounts and may be extended, modified, or withdrawn at any time without notice.'  *"



They will allow you to push things out in terms of payments, but I believe you have to sign contracts within 30 days…but if you don’t sign, you are always at risk they could rescind on you…though I have not heard them do it..

I bought March 3rd and my final payment is not due until June 2nd, but I did sign the contract right away.


----------



## M:SpilotISTC12

So I guess I didn’t purchase 85 points. I’ve been a member since 2016 and have always had a contract since then. I currently have only two contracts less than a year old. Since I don’t have any contracts a year old I don’t qualify for the member APR. But if I wait until mid May I’ll qualify. At this point it'll take just as long to buy resale. The whole point of direct is to not wait. How stupid. Direct just shooting themselves in the foot to resale...again.


----------



## SleeplessInTO

mamaofsix said:


> Does DVC ever draw up paperwork for a closing date for purchase several months down the road?  We want to buy before June 1st to get the current price / incentives, but I don't really want to buy _today._   We'd like a few more months to save up cash and allow our Canadian dollar to go up as it's predicted to.  Is it like a normal real estate purchase, where you can draw up the papers and have the closing date be 60 days out?
> 
> I e-mailed our guide with this question, and they didn't really give a straight-forward answer.  They said "we can only guarantee the price for today.  Even though the price isn't _supposed_  to go up before June 1st, the wording is such that it could go up with no notice*:   'Offers can’t be combined with other select discounts and may be extended, modified, or withdrawn at any time without notice.'  *"


We are spreading payments out over 3 months. I’m very happy the fx rate is over 0.80 today, since this is our second tranche of DVC charges hitting the credit card. Hoping our dollar does continue to go up too. 

Ask your guide if you can lock in the pricing & sign contract this month, but spread out payments for 3-4 months.


----------



## Sandisw

M:SpilotISTC12 said:


> So I guess I didn’t purchase 85 points. I’ve been a member since 2016 and have always had a contract since then. I currently have only two contracts less than a year old. Since I don’t have any contracts a year old I don’t qualify for the member APR. But if I wait until mid May I’ll qualify. At this point it'll take just as long to buy resale. The whole point of direct is to not wait. How stupid. Direct just shooting themselves in the foot to resale...again.



I am confused.  Are you saying you need to own a year to qualify for a better APR for financing?

Or, you can’t add on 85 points because you have not owned your current contracts for more than a year?


----------



## M:SpilotISTC12

Sandisw said:


> Are you saying you need to own a year to qualify for a better APR for financing?


Correct. At that point, the math didn't work for me. If I wasn't going to get the better rate, it made sense to go resale. So I offered $165 on a loaded 100 point Poly contract and was accepted right away. It worked out in the end.


----------



## Sandisw

M:SpilotISTC12 said:


> Correct. At that point, the math didn't work for me. If I wasn't going to get the better rate, it made sense to go resale. So I offered $165 on a loaded 100 point Poly contract and was accepted right away. It worked out in the end.



Thanks for clarifying and congratulation!


----------



## mamaofsix

SleeplessInTO said:


> We are spreading payments out over 3 months. I’m very happy the fx rate is over 0.80 today, since this is our second tranche of DVC charges hitting the credit card. Hoping our dollar does continue to go up too.
> 
> Ask your guide if you can lock in the pricing & sign contract this month, but spread out payments for 3-4 months.


Thank you for this advice!  I think we will ask if we can go this route.


----------



## OlieRow

Sandisw said:


> I am confused.  Are you saying you need to own a year to qualify for a better APR for financing?
> 
> Or, you can’t add on 85 points because you have not owned your current contracts for more than a year?



On my recent tour, I was told that in order to qualify for the better current member incentives vs new member ones you had to own for a year.


----------



## Mexacajun

OlieRow said:


> On my recent tour, I was told that in order to qualify for the better current member incentives vs new member ones you had to own for a year.


I bought RIV 2 weeks ago (my first dvc contract) and my guide sent me the current member pricing for VGF when I asked about adding on there.


----------



## DVChris

OlieRow said:


> On my recent tour, I was told that in order to qualify for the better current member incentives vs new member ones you had to own for a year.


I would check with another CM. If it's true then it's a new policy. I joined less than a year ago with a resale contract and have purchased direct a couple of times since.


----------



## DKZB

OlieRow said:


> On my recent tour, I was told that in order to qualify for the better current member incentives vs new member ones you had to own for a year.


Purchase Price Incentives or APR on loan? 

I know the member add-on (price) incentives do not require 1 year. Not sure on APR.


----------



## Docwheeze

OlieRow said:


> On my recent tour, I was told that in order to qualify for the better current member incentives vs new member ones you had to own for a year.


Just bought at VGF as new member.  Guide specifically stated current member incentives available when contract closed in 10 days.


----------



## qwerty2k

Newbie question. My guide says that currently they are selling a Feb use year but that they could do a March use year and that would be better for us as we said we tend to go either August or October...i still don't know too much about when a 'good' use year is (we will be booking 11 months in advanced due to airfair), from a brief look online i thought that June would be a better use year?

Also guide said that 'deal' for RIV is that you get 2021 points but that if you weren't going to use them before they expired Disney would 'buy' them back off you (yes, less than renting them privately but obviously less hassle), has anyone heard of Disney doing the same for a new purchase for this years points? ie, we aren't planning on going until 2024 so would bank 2023 and use 2024 so 2022 points are of no 'use' to us for VGF?


----------



## DKZB

qwerty2k said:


> Newbie question. My guide says that currently they are selling a Feb use year but that they could do a March use year and that would be better for us as we said we tend to go either August or October...i still don't know too much about when a 'good' use year is (we will be booking 11 months in advanced due to airfair), from a brief look online i thought that June would be a better use year?
> 
> Also guide said that 'deal' for RIV is that you get 2021 points but that if you weren't going to use them before they expired Disney would 'buy' them back off you (yes, less than renting them privately but obviously less hassle), has anyone heard of Disney doing the same for a new purchase for this years points? ie, we aren't planning on going until 2024 so would bank 2023 and use 2024 so 2022 points are of no 'use' to us for VGF?


A couple things.

1. If you travel same time every time, you want your use year to be as close as possible but right before you plan to travel.

You are right to say June would be perfect if you typically travel August or October. On the flip side, if you choose June and travel in the spring (Feb / March/ April / May) that is not ideal because you are past your banking window.

2. Remember points are Use Year not calendar year. For that reason a June use year would be great at RIV because you actually get 2021 points (June 1 2021 - May 31 2022 Use Year).

Yes I’ve heard of that program but as you’ve said it is quite a bit less than you can get elsewhere.

Remember that for the June 2021 points you want them to bank them right away (to June 1 2022 Use Year) if you decide to rent on your own. They will do that even though you are outside the banking window because this is a new contract.

None of the above about 2021 points are true for VGF since the first points will be 2022 Use Year.


----------



## Sandisw

DVChris said:


> I would check with another CM. If it's true then it's a new policy. I joined less than a year ago with a resale contract and have purchased direct a couple of times since.



It is not the member pricing. It’s the interest rate that is charged when you finance.  

You have to be an owner for a year to get a better rate.  But you can qualify for the incentives immediately.


----------



## mamaofsix

qwerty2k said:


> Newbie question. My guide says that currently they are selling a Feb use year but that they could do a March use year and that would be better for us as we said we tend to go either August or October...i still don't know too much about when a 'good' use year is (we will be booking 11 months in advanced due to airfair), from a brief look online i thought that June would be a better use year?
> 
> Also guide said that 'deal' for RIV is that you get 2021 points but that if you weren't going to use them before they expired Disney would 'buy' them back off you (yes, less than renting them privately but obviously less hassle), has anyone heard of Disney doing the same for a new purchase for this years points? ie, we aren't planning on going until 2024 so would bank 2023 and use 2024 so 2022 points are of no 'use' to us for VGF?


I believe they are selling any use year right now.  I need an October use year and they said they could do that.  

We were also told that the "deal" of Disney buying back your 2021 points (for $10 a point) at RIV is only available to those who live in the U.S.  So, many who are international buyers would have to rent out our 2021 points if we can't use them.


----------



## Sandisw

qwerty2k said:


> Newbie question. My guide says that currently they are selling a Feb use year but that they could do a March use year and that would be better for us as we said we tend to go either August or October...i still don't know too much about when a 'good' use year is (we will be booking 11 months in advanced due to airfair), from a brief look online i thought that June would be a better use year?
> 
> Also guide said that 'deal' for RIV is that you get 2021 points but that if you weren't going to use them before they expired Disney would 'buy' them back off you (yes, less than renting them privately but obviously less hassle), has anyone heard of Disney doing the same for a new purchase for this years points? ie, we aren't planning on going until 2024 so would bank 2023 and use 2024 so 2022 points are of no 'use' to us for VGF?



They are not buying back points for VGF at this time. They will only buy your first UY points. So, if you go with RIV March UY, it’s 2022 points.   A June UY would be 2021 UY points. 

You could then at least try and rent the 2022 June UY points. Use a broker like DVC rental store that would make it easier than doing on your own.


----------



## qwerty2k

mamaofsix said:


> I believe they are selling any use year right now.  I need an October use year and they said they could do that.
> 
> We were also told that the "deal" of Disney buying back your 2021 points (for $10 a point) at RIV is only available to those who live in the U.S.  So, many who are international buyers would have to rent out our 2021 points if we can't use them.


Ah ok, our guide wasn't sure if it was US only and said she could ask if it is possible for international members....guess not then.


----------



## buzlite

I'm really considering buying at vgf due to the restrictions at Riviera. I would rather not buy anything than buy RR due to the risk of the resale price crashing. 
I do really like RR and would probably hope to stay there sometimes. I love VGF as well, so I wouldn't be disappointed. Does anyone know how hard it would be to book a deluxe studio premium view from  oct1st-dec14 period for 4-7 days in the 7-month window not including holidays? I know we can't predict future demand but I'm wondering what current demand looks like. 
Impossible?Rare?Expected?Basically guaranteed?


----------



## Nabas

buzlite said:


> I'm really considering buying at vgf due to the restrictions at Riviera. I would rather not buy anything than buy RR due to the risk of the resale price crashing.
> I do really like RR and would probably hope to stay there sometimes. I love VGF as well, so I wouldn't be disappointed. Does anyone know how hard it would be to book a deluxe studio premium view from  oct1st-dec14 period for 4-7 days in the 7-month window not including holidays? I know we can't predict future demand but I'm wondering what current demand looks like.
> Impossible?Rare?Expected?Basically guaranteed?


October 1 to December 14 is probably the mostly popular time of the year for DVC members to book rooms.

My experience as a VGF member is that it's difficult to book VGF rooms for this period at 11 months.  Obviously, 202 new studios will make VGF studios a lot easier to book, but I would not count on any being available for 4-7 days at 7 months for October 1 to December 14.


----------



## buzlite

Nabas said:


> October 1 to December 14 is probably the mostly popular time of the year for DVC members to book rooms.
> 
> My experience as a VGF member is that it's difficult to book VGF rooms for this period at 11 months.  Obviously, 202 new studios will make VGF studios a lot easier to book, but I would not count on any being available for 4-7 days at 7 months for October 1 to December 14.


Sorry to clarify I meant to book RR. If I buy it will be at VGF and I will book 11 months out at VGF. 
Our plan is if we can't get a place a RR to take uber to HS and AKL. It would be awesome to take the skyliner. We made add a small contract to RR as a 2nd contract for 3-day stays. I guess my question is how common is it to be able to book a room (anything cheaper then 1 bedroom) for 3-4 nights in Oct-Dec at RR 7 months out? 
It sounds like it's quite difficult. What times of the year do you think it would be easier? We definitely don't plan to travel to WDW from May-Sept due to the heat and Summer.


----------



## Sandisw

buzlite said:


> I'm really considering buying at vgf due to the restrictions at Riviera. I would rather not buy anything than buy RR due to the risk of the resale price crashing.
> I do really like RR and would probably hope to stay there sometimes. I love VGF as well, so I wouldn't be disappointed. Does anyone know how hard it would be to book a deluxe studio premium view from  oct1st-dec14 period for 4-7 days in the 7-month window not including holidays? I know we can't predict future demand but I'm wondering what current demand looks like.
> Impossible?Rare?Expected?Basically guaranteed?


I think that time of year is tough at 7 months at all the near park resorts.  I would not assume you will be able to get into RIV for studios, even PV regularly.

Honestly, I would not avoid buying at RIV if that is where you want to stay on a regular basis…I think you will end up disappointed in the end.

Now, if it is just once in a great while, then maybe If you know you are planning to sell in a short time after buying.

IMO, DVC is too much money to spend to end up at your second choice resales for something that may or may not end up happening.

We love RIV and it’s worth it owning there and knowing we can stay any time we want.


----------



## lowlight

Anyone who bought receive a DVC water bottle and cooling towel?  I still haven’t received luggage yet, but was surprised to get a welcome gift since I’m not a new member.


----------



## JoeyPeligroso

lowlight said:


> Anyone who bought receive a DVC water bottle and cooling towel?  I still haven’t received luggage yet, but was surprised to get a welcome gift since I’m not a new member.


So far the only thing that I've received relative to my direct purchase was the points.  The water bottle looks pretty nice!


----------



## Royal Consort

buzlite said:


> Sorry to clarify I meant to book RR. If I buy it will be at VGF and I will book 11 months out at VGF.
> Our plan is if we can't get a place a RR to take uber to HS and AKL. It would be awesome to take the skyliner. We made add a small contract to RR as a 2nd contract for 3-day stays. I guess my question is how common is it to be able to book a room (anything cheaper then 1 bedroom) for 3-4 nights in Oct-Dec at RR 7 months out?


As mentioned above, Riviera is difficult at the seven month mark. Riviera is turning into a resort you need to own (definitely need to own oct-jan) to get in to.

I don't quite see the logic of buying at VGF if you want to stay at Riviera. Just buy Riviera and you have your 11 month advantage.

You mentioned that you'd rather buy nothing than Riviera because of resale value. This applies to any timeshare. Heck, I bought VGF resale when the pandemic hit and prices dropped in value at Grand significantly.


----------



## miTnosnhoJ

buzlite said:


> Sorry to clarify I meant to book RR. If I buy it will be at VGF and I will book 11 months out at VGF.
> Our plan is if we can't get a place a RR to take uber to HS and AKL. It would be awesome to take the skyliner. We made add a small contract to RR as a 2nd contract for 3-day stays. I guess my question is how common is it to be able to book a room (anything cheaper then 1 bedroom) for 3-4 nights in Oct-Dec at RR 7 months out?
> It sounds like it's quite difficult. What times of the year do you think it would be easier? We definitely don't plan to travel to WDW from May-Sept due to the heat and Summer.


Ironically, the onerous resale restrictions that could depress the resale value are a reason to own there. Over time, you will have a large percentage of Riviera owners who cannot book anywhere else, so it will tend to shut out everybody else from booking there.     By definition, Riviera starts out at 100% direct owners, but every year, the percentage of resale owners increases, say 5% per year.


----------



## RKS03

miTnosnhoJ said:


> Ironically, the onerous resale restrictions that could depress the resale value are a reason to own there. Over time, you will have a large percentage of Riviera owners who cannot book anywhere else, so it will tend to shut out everybody else from booking there.     By definition, Riviera starts out at 100% direct owners, but every year, the percentage of resale owners increases, say 5% per year.


Couldn’t it also make it hard for Riviera members to book at less than 11 months if a chunk of members can’t book anywhere but there?


----------



## Sandisw

miTnosnhoJ said:


> Ironically, the onerous resale restrictions that could depress the resale value are a reason to own there. Over time, you will have a large percentage of Riviera owners who cannot book anywhere else, so it will tend to shut out everybody else from booking there.     By definition, Riviera starts out at 100% direct owners, but every year, the percentage of resale owners increases, say 5% per year.



Based on reports, the average number of resale points runs around 20% max…and it will take years to get to that number.

Points become restricted only one…when a direct owners sells them..after that, no matter how often that contract changes hands it does not impact the percentage of points…just who owns them.

And, if DVD ever decides to ROFR resale RIv down the line, then those points go back to being unrestricted.

I do think you need to own there to stay there…it’s popular..on a regular basis...but I just don’t see the resale point % being higher than average…if anything, it could be lower if the value goes down…owners may just choose to keep and use or rent it out.


----------



## Nabas

buzlite said:


> Sorry to clarify I meant to book RR. If I buy it will be at VGF and I will book 11 months out at VGF.
> Our plan is if we can't get a place a RR to take uber to HS and AKL. It would be awesome to take the skyliner. We made add a small contract to RR as a 2nd contract for 3-day stays. I guess my question is how common is it to be able to book a room (anything cheaper then 1 bedroom) for 3-4 nights in Oct-Dec at RR 7 months out?


Generally, what happens with a new DVC resort such as the Riviera is that people who just bought there want to stay there, and existing members at other resorts want to stay there.

The result is that a new DVC resort tends to be difficult to book until all direct points are sold and most DVC members have had a chance to try the new resort.

Longer term, a DVC resort’s difficulty to book is mostly a function of its size and mix of rooms. Large DVC resorts with lots of Studios tend to be easier to book. (Studios are the most popular type of room.)

*Once sold out, the Riviera will be the 4th largest WDW DVC but it only has the 6th most Studios. As such, it probably will end up being somewhere within the middle of difficulty to book.*

The Riviera’s resale restrictions could make it more difficult to book long-term. However, if the pattern at the Riviera is similar to other WDW DVC resorts, then the vast majority of Riviera buyers will have bought their points directly from Disney, even 20 years from now.


buzlite said:


> It sounds like it's quite difficult. What times of the year do you think it would be easier? We definitely don't plan to travel to WDW from May-Sept due to the heat and Summer.


Historically, August is the easiest month to book, exactly for the reason you don't want to travel May-Sept.  You would not be the only DVC member who feels that way about the heat.


----------



## Sandisw

RKS03 said:


> Couldn’t it also make it hard for Riviera members to book at less than 11 months if a chunk of members can’t book anywhere but there?



RIV owners will need to book at 11 months to have the best chance of getting SV rooms.…and depending on time, other rooms as well.

Resale owners will learn quickly to book right on time or they could get shut out.  Where the bigger issue will come into play is at 7 months when resale points can’t be used other places so those wanting to trade in, especially during busy times may very well find themselves out of luck.


----------



## RKS03

Took a look at my VGF2 deed and it says I have an interest in unit 11.  I am a little confused how little my % is given I have a total of 300 points and my % of unit comes out to less than .04%.  How many points do they sell for each room? Can it be more than the points used for the room for the year? 

Just ball parking average points in a resort studio even if unit 11 is theme park view and average points are 35 for the year (I think it’s actually far less) my % would be 2.3%.  Or do units not correspond to actual rooms? That would make more sense.  Not a big deal but just trying to understand what I technically am deeded out of interest.


----------



## RamblinWreck

RKS03 said:


> Took a look at my VGF2 deed and it says I have an interest in unit 11.  I am a little confused how little my % is given I have a total of 300 points and my % of unit comes out to less than .04%.  How many points do they sell for each room? Can it be more than the points used for the room for the year?
> 
> Just ball parking average points in a resort studio even if unit 11 is theme park view and average points are 35 for the year (I think it’s actually far less) my % would be 2.3%.  Or do units not correspond to actual rooms? That would make more sense.  Not a big deal but just trying to understand what I technically am deeded out of interest.


Units do correspond to actual rooms. But they usually contain more than one studio room.


----------



## Sandisw

RKS03 said:


> Took a look at my VGF2 deed and it says I have an interest in unit 11.  I am a little confused how little my % is given I have a total of 300 points and my % of unit comes out to less than .04%.  How many points do they sell for each room? Can it be more than the points used for the room for the year?
> 
> Just ball parking average points in a resort studio even if unit 11 is theme park view and average points are 35 for the year (I think it’s actually far less) my % would be 2.3%.  Or do units not correspond to actual rooms? That would make more sense.  Not a big deal but just trying to understand what I technically am deeded out of interest.


 I think I read that Unit 11 was the entire 100 rooms that were declared. But I didn’t actually look for sure.


----------



## RKS03

Sandisw said:


> I think I read that Unit 11 was the entire 100 rooms that were declared. But I didn’t actually look for sure.


Thanks the % would make a lot more sense in light of 100 rooms.


----------



## KTownRaider

'All of the (VGF) points sold were drawn from Residential Unit #11, which makes up half of the (BPK) building.  Disney did not sell any deeds which were drawn from residential units located in the original DVC building. '

https://www.dvcnews.com/dvc-program...-sales-resume-direct-sales-jump-in-march-2022


----------



## RKS03

KTownRaider said:


> 'All of the (VGF) points sold were drawn from Residential Unit #11, which makes up half of the (BPK) building.  Disney did not sell any deeds which were drawn from residential units located in the original DVC building. '
> 
> https://www.dvcnews.com/dvc-program...-sales-resume-direct-sales-jump-in-march-2022


What jumps out at me also in this is that link is that someone bought a single 1000 point deed.  I’m surprised they didn’t break it down to smaller deeds in case they want to sell one day.  That would be a difficult to move resale.


----------



## lowlight

RKS03 said:


> What jumps out at me also in this is that link is that someone bought a single 1000 point deed.  I’m surprised they didn’t break it down to smaller deeds in case they want to sell one day.  That would be a difficult to move resale.



That’s an expensive contract.


----------



## RamblinWreck

RKS03 said:


> What jumps out at me also in this is that link is that someone bought a single 1000 point deed.  I’m surprised they didn’t break it down to smaller deeds in case they want to sell one day.  That would be a difficult to move resale.


There's currently a 1000 point VGF contract on sale on the Fidelity DVC resale website, listed at $180 per point.

Something tells me they won't get what they're asking...


----------



## DKZB

RKS03 said:


> What jumps out at me also in this is that link is that someone bought a single 1000 point deed.  I’m surprised they didn’t break it down to smaller deeds in case they want to sell one day.  That would be a difficult to move resale.


It's crazy to buy a single 1000 point contract!! On 300 I did 125 / 75 / 50/ 50. I figure the small extra CC will pay off if I ever need to re-sell. I probably would have done 6 x 150 + 100 or 5 x 200. Even 4 x 250 would be MUCH easier to move than 1 x 1000. Very few buyers would buy a contract of that size.


----------



## miTnosnhoJ

A few years ago there were two fixed weeks for week 51 and 52 GVs at VGF, if I recall correctly. Yes, they sold at a discount.


----------



## Chuck96

A week later, and the deed (literally) is fully done.  As we were not financing, it took a few days to get all of the necessary wire transfer information collated, but I’m now a member with a reservation and a (temporary) card.  Dec 18-23, home resort first stay, splurged for the TP resort studio view.  The original DVC Villas had no openings across those dates, but we are looking forward to two queen Beds.  Thinking about adding a SAT night on the 17th (either borrowing from 2023 points or hoping for a single night at the 7 month window with 1 time annual point purchase).

Thanks again to everyone for the advice and perspective during this.  No buyers remorse, feel pretty good (even with my many current Disney practices gripes) about the decision.  Which is good, since we debated it for the past four years, and I’ve been on-off-on-off about a dozen times since 2018.  It’ll be our first stay at the Floridian, too, which will be nice.


----------



## hbg1

lowlight said:


> Anyone who bought receive a DVC water bottle and cooling towel?  I still haven’t received luggage yet, but was surprised to get a welcome gift since I’m not a new member.


Just got back from a week at PVB and the box with the water bottle and towel arrived today, didn't know this was coming but cool nonetheless.
Also wanted to add that we went over and checked out the new resort studios and I'm so glad we added on.
Really beautiful room in person, so much attention to detail and they'll work so well for our needs on vacations.


----------



## SusieQ93

I haven’t pulled the trigger yet on purchasing VGF (first time member). Since there’s no incentive for 150 pts and we don’t need points until a stay we’re doing December 2023, is there any reason to rush to buy? There will be advance warning of a per point cost increase, correct? I just want to be sure to buy before the per point goes up.


----------



## miTnosnhoJ

SusieQ93 said:


> I haven’t pulled the trigger yet on purchasing VGF (first time member). Since there’s no incentive for 150 pts and we don’t need points until a stay we’re doing December 2023, is there any reason to rush to buy? There will be advance warning of a per point cost increase, correct? I just want to be sure to buy before the per point goes up.


The current pricing is good through June 1.  At that point, they can reduce incentives, increase the base price, or whatever. It is anybody’s guess.  With the first round of sales at the Grand FLoridian, they increased the base price several times.


----------



## SusieQ93

miTnosnhoJ said:


> The current pricing is good through June 1.  At that point, they can reduce incentives, increase the base price, or whatever. It is anybody’s guess.  With the first round of sales at the Grand FLoridian, they increased the base price several times.


Thanks, I totally get that the price increases all the time. My question which I probably didn’t phrase well is: doesn’t Disney always give about a week’s notice when base price will go up? Incentives don’t come into play here because there aren’t any for the number of points I’m buying right now (150). I haven’t been following the prices trends for a long time, but it seems like for the past several months if base price was increasing (like they did recently with sold out resorts), there is some advance notice so you have time to buy before the increase.


----------



## DVCsloth

SusieQ93 said:


> Thanks, I totally get that the price increases all the time. My question which I probably didn’t phrase well is: doesn’t Disney always give about a week’s notice when base price will go up? Incentives don’t come into play here because there aren’t any for the number of points I’m buying right now (150). I haven’t been following the prices trends for a long time, but it seems like for the past several months if base price was increasing (like they did recently with sold out resorts), there is some advance notice so you have time to buy before the increase.


I've noticed that DVC doesn't always give advanced notice. I think if you bought now you would just back the 2022 points and use them for your December 2023 trip.
Not sure if you are only considering VGF, but Riviera is an awesome resort and they may be offering a discount on 150 points for new members, not sure though. Only thing is with Riviera are the resale restrictions if you ever sell it may affect your sale price. Personally, it wouldn't bother me if you like the resort. I'm actually considering adding on a small Riviera contract. Trying to fight it though.


----------



## CarolMN

SusieQ93 said:


> Thanks, I totally get that the price increases all the time. My question which I probably didn’t phrase well is: doesn’t Disney always give about a week’s notice when base price will go up? Incentives don’t come into play here because there aren’t any for the number of points I’m buying right now (150). I haven’t been following the prices trends for a long time, but it seems like for the past several months if base price was increasing (like they did recently with sold out resorts), there is some advance notice so you have time to buy before the increase.


Usually.  But even if there is some advance notice, you can't count on finding out about it in time to make a purchase, so there's that.   (Not everyone checks in  to the DIS DVC Forums or other internet DVC news sources on a daily basis, LOL).

IMO, the current $207 pp is almost certainly the lowest price that will be offered for purchases of smaller contracts prior to sell out. 

Good luck with your decision.


----------



## SusieQ93

DVCsloth said:


> I've noticed that DVC doesn't always give advanced notice. I think if you bought now you would just back the 2022 points and use them for your December 2023 trip.
> Not sure if you are only considering VGF, but Riviera is an awesome resort and they may be offering a discount on 150 points for new members, not sure though. Only thing is with Riviera are the resale restrictions if you ever sell it may affect your sale price. Personally, it wouldn't bother me if you like the resort. I'm actually considering adding on a small Riviera contract. Trying to fight it though.


I think Riviera is a beautiful resort but I want the proximity to Magic Kingdom/ability to walk to at least one park. If Riviera was walking distance to HS and Epcot, I’d be much more interested. I do think it’s very nice.


----------



## SleeplessInTO

There was one day advance warning (or maybe more like a rumour) that base price for AKL, OKW and SSR was going up to $200/pt. If you know what you want to buy and where, I’d do it. Especially since you can bank Dec UY 2022 points to use for your Dec 2023 trip.


----------



## SusieQ93

SleeplessInTO said:


> There was one day advance warning (or maybe more like a rumour) that base price for AKL, OKW and SSR was going up to $200/pt. If you know what you want to buy and where, I’d do it. Especially since you can bank Dec UY 2022 points to use for your Dec 2023 trip.


Thanks! It sounds like best bet is to go ahead and buy by June 1st.


----------



## miTnosnhoJ

@SusieQ93 
One strategy you might consider would be to purchase your points in late May.   You will need a 10% down payment, which can be a credit card. They will send you documents to sign electronically. You can stall on this a few days.  Then, once you sign them, you have an additional 10 days to rescind your purchase.  By this time, you will know what the new pricing is.   Further, if you are paying cash, you can schedule your payments in a few chunks on your credit card.  So the money comes out of your bank account over several months.  Discuss this with your guide. You will not be able to close until you pay in full, but this will be OK because you will not get your points until December anyway.   (If you are financing, you can just go ahead and close right away - probably in late June.)

Another thing to consider would be to raise your purchase amount to 175 points. You would save a few $ per point, and most people wish they had more points.

Overall, I have been an owner at VGF since 2015, and have recently added on 125 points. We have never regretted it. It has been a great experience for our family.


Good luck!


----------



## SusieQ93

miTnosnhoJ said:


> @SusieQ93
> One strategy you might consider would be to purchase your points in late May.   You will need a 10% down payment, which can be a credit card. They will send you documents to sign electronically. You can stall on this a few days.  Then, once you sign them, you have an additional 10 days to rescind your purchase.  By this time, you will know what the new pricing is.   Further, if you are paying cash, you can schedule your payments in a few chunks on your credit card.  So the money comes out of your bank account over several months.  Discuss this with your guide. You will not be able to close until you pay in full, but this will be OK because you will not get your points until December anyway.   (If you are financing, you can just go ahead and close right away - probably in late June.)
> 
> Another thing to consider would be to raise your purchase amount to 175 points. You would save a few $ per point, and most people wish they had more points.
> 
> Overall, I have been an owner at VGF since 2015, and have recently added on 125 points. We have never regretted it. It has been a great experience for our family.
> 
> 
> Good luck!


Thank you! Good tips. We are paying cash/any remaining will go on the Disney visa and be paid off in the 6 month window so I’m just trying to stretch that out more than anything if there’s no rush. 

I’m only buying the 150 because I really want to buy another 100 or so at the Disneyland tower when it opens as we enjoy regular trips on both coasts. So I need to save up for that next purchase


----------



## Sandisw

SusieQ93 said:


> Thanks! It sounds like best bet is to go ahead and buy by June 1st.



I would.  And if you have the Disney Visa you can ask them to spread out the payments so you get the extra months interest free. 

This way tot don’t have to pay in full until close to December anyway.


----------



## buzlite

Im trying to figure out use year. My guide said that they are marketing February use year. We were thinking of getting an august use year since we will mostly try to travel oct to end of nov and sometimes in March April. He was recommending the February use year so we would get one set of points now and one set in February. 
Not sure if this makes sense. We may or may not do a trip this fall depending on pregnancy status. 
Should I take feb or push for august use year? Especially since oct-dec 2022 is almost completely booked already!


----------



## plenihan07

buzlite said:


> Im trying to figure out use year. My guide said that they are marketing February use year. We were thinking of getting an august use year since we will mostly try to travel oct to end of nov and sometimes in March April. He was recommending the February use year so we would get one set of points now and one set in February.
> Not sure if this makes sense. We may or may not do a trip this fall depending on pregnancy status.
> Should I take feb or push for august use year? Especially since oct-dec 2022 is almost completely booked already!


You should be able to get any use year you want, we went with June for our purchase based on travel times. August means you have to bank points by March 31, so if you plan to travel in March/April you may want to consider September to get the April 30 deadline in the event of an issue resulting in having to postpone/cancel an April trip.


----------



## CarolynFH

buzlite said:


> Im trying to figure out use year. My guide said that they are marketing February use year. We were thinking of getting an august use year since we will mostly try to travel oct to end of nov and sometimes in March April. He was recommending the February use year so we would get one set of points now and one set in February.
> Not sure if this makes sense. We may or may not do a trip this fall depending on pregnancy status.
> Should I take feb or push for august use year? Especially since oct-dec 2022 is almost completely booked already!


I would politely but firmly ask for an August UY because that would fit your likely travel times best.  A February UY with October and November trips would mean if you had to cancel a trip, you'd be too close to the end of your UY to use or bank the points.  It sounds like you're already familiar with the *Understanding Use Year *thread, but if not, you might want to read it to know why August is better for you (and maybe you could educate your guide, too).

BTW, if you buy an August UY now, you'll get 2021 points now and 2022 points on August 1 of this year.  If you buy a February UY, you'll get 2022 points now and have to wait until February 1, 2023 to get more!


----------



## RKS03

CarolynFH said:


> BTW, if you buy an August UY now, you'll get 2021 points now and 2022 points on August 1 of this year.  If you buy a February UY, you'll get 2022 points now and have to wait until February 1, 2023 to get more!


 I probably misunderstood but I thought they weren’t giving VGF2 2021 points.  I know they are for other direct purchases.


----------



## CarolynFH

RKS03 said:


> I probably misunderstood but I thought they weren’t giving VGF2 2021 points.  I know they are for other direct purchases.


Sorry, I forgot I was on the VGF thread.  OTOH, having a February UY when most DVC visits will be in October and November is probably worth passing up the 2021 points and starting with August 2022.  At least it would be for me, for peace of mind knowing how life can throw curve balls into reservations booked 11 months out!


----------



## Nabas

buzlite said:


> Im trying to figure out use year. My guide said that they are marketing February use year. We were thinking of getting an august use year since we will mostly try to travel oct to end of nov and sometimes in March April. He was recommending the February use year so we would get one set of points now and one set in February.
> Not sure if this makes sense. We may or may not do a trip this fall depending on pregnancy status.
> Should I take feb or push for august use year? Especially since oct-dec 2022 is almost completely booked already!


I agree with the others.

Since you plan to travel October, November, March, or April, go with a Use Year that works for your dates.  I know you mentioned August but if you don't see yourself ever going in August, then maybe even consider September?

We went with a September Use Year for our VGF contract since this allows us to book September (cheapest month) to December without any issue, even to as far as May.  (We have to bank April 30 but since we have to cancel a reservation 31 days before, it means we have to commit to a May trip before our banking date anyway.)  Historically, August is the easiest DVC month to book, so if we have to cancel a May trip at the last-minute, we can try for the summer months and settle for August if we have to.


----------



## mamaofsix

Thanks for all the advice on this thread!  We are now brand new direct owners, 225 points October use year.  Very happy!


----------



## PolyRob

I haven't posted on the DIS (or visited WDW) in over 2 years, but the VGF pricing was good enough for me to add-on to my original VGF points back in March. Looking forward to catching up and trying out the new resort studios and refurbished villas!


----------



## The Jackal

New roof going on BPK and some exterior construction. They demolished a exterior stairway.


----------



## OnThisMagicNight

As of a week and a half ago, we are officially owners now.  Overall we are satisfied with our purchase, but still disappointed that the incentives weren't better.  We purchased 325 points but I think if the incentives had been better we would have gone for 350.  And just like everyone warned, I felt that we didn't have enough points as soon as we booked our first trip ...


----------



## qwerty2k

Looking like im going to have to put off purchasing my first DVC VGF contract unfortunately, probably for a year or so. 

Does anyone have any insight into how long it may take for VGF to sell out? I saw the first month sold roughly 6.5% of all points (which i think was just for existing members), do we think the first couple of months may be higher and then slow down? If we took 6.5% as an average it would take roughly 15months to sell out. Is that  realistic or are we expecting it to sell out quicker?


----------



## Marionnette

qwerty2k said:


> Looking like im going to have to put off purchasing my first DVC VGF contract unfortunately, probably for a year or so.
> 
> Does anyone have any insight into how long it may take for VGF to sell out? I saw the first month sold roughly 6.5% of all points (which i think was just for existing members), do we think the first couple of months may be higher and then slow down? If we took 6.5% as an average it would take roughly 15months to sell out. Is that  realistic or are we expecting it to sell out quicker?


IMO, we're heading for a recession. Inflation is killing a lot of plans for large purchases. I don't think that we will see the level of enthusiasm from new buyers that we saw from existing members. And keep in mind that Riviera and Aulani are both still in active sales. New buyers will have choices and not all of them will want VGF2.


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## Sandisw

qwerty2k said:


> Looking like im going to have to put off purchasing my first DVC VGF contract unfortunately, probably for a year or so.
> 
> Does anyone have any insight into how long it may take for VGF to sell out? I saw the first month sold roughly 6.5% of all points (which i think was just for existing members), do we think the first couple of months may be higher and then slow down? If we took 6.5% as an average it would take roughly 15months to sell out. Is that  realistic or are we expecting it to sell out quicker?



I predict 18 months to 2 years.  But, once we have more info on what new buyers decided to buy now that they have the option of both, we might be able to better gauge it.  I think that there will be a shift in sales numbers, but the question is whether or not the buyers of VGF will be adding to total sales...like the current owners did when they bought RIV...or did it totally take sales away from RIV in a meaningful way.


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## Cyberc1978

Yeah a recession is coming sooner rather than later. 

What that will mean for the resale marked is hard to say but if the number of contracts for sale continues to increase then the prices will go down. 

Historically DVC haven’t lowered their prices but instead increased their incentives.


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## sndral

qwerty2k said:


> Looking like im going to have to put off purchasing my first DVC VGF contract unfortunately, probably for a year or so.
> 
> Does anyone have any insight into how long it may take for VGF to sell out? I saw the first month sold roughly 6.5% of all points (which i think was just for existing members), do we think the first couple of months may be higher and then slow down? If we took 6.5% as an average it would take roughly 15months to sell out. Is that  realistic or are we expecting it to sell out quicker?


Near term the first new member buyer numbers should show up in May (when those deeds start to show up on the OC site) & June numbers should give a fairly good indication of how fast it’s selling & how it’s faring v. the other WDW resort in active sales - Riv..
 I suspect VGF2 is doing better than DVC projected since they cut back on incentives for VGF https://dvcnews.com/dvc-program/fin...yer-prices-revealed-add-on-incentives-reduced.
My simple calculations from initial sales numbers predicted 14 mo.s to VGF being sold out - but, there are too many unknowns to have any confidence in those numbers. Headwinds from the economy, reduction in on site buyer demand due to negative park experiences (cost, crowding, unhappiness w/ G+,) the initial numbers were an anomaly capturing pent up demand waiting for VGF & will wane, etc..


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## macman123

RKS03 said:


> Took a look at my VGF2 deed and it says I have an interest in unit 11.  I am a little confused how little my % is given I have a total of 300 points and my % of unit comes out to less than .04%.  How many points do they sell for each room? Can it be more than the points used for the room for the year?
> 
> Just ball parking average points in a resort studio even if unit 11 is theme park view and average points are 35 for the year (I think it’s actually far less) my % would be 2.3%.  Or do units not correspond to actual rooms? That would make more sense.  Not a big deal but just trying to understand what I technically am deeded out of interest.



When I go I marvel at the door handle that I own with the 3,500 points I have.


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## hglenn

Anyone know how sales were in April for VGF when they opened it up to new members?  Is it still outselling RIV?


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## Paul Stupin

macman123 said:


> When I go I marvel at the door handle that I own with the 3,500 points I have.


Thanks for reminder. I forgot you have 3500 points.


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## AvidDisReader

hglenn said:


> Anyone know how sales were in April for VGF when they opened it up to new members?  Is it still outselling RIV?


Just posted, VGF sold just over 177,000 points in April


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## hglenn

AvidDisReader said:


> Just posted, VGF sold just over 177,000 points in April


Can you post the link?  I don't recall where that was....  Thank you!


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## KTownRaider

hglenn said:


> Can you post the link? I don't recall where that was.... Thank you!



https://www.dvcnews.com/dvc-program...-help-drive-strong-direct-sales-in-april-2022


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## RamblinWreck

KTownRaider said:


> https://www.dvcnews.com/dvc-program...-help-drive-strong-direct-sales-in-april-2022


Someone purchased a single 2,000 point Poly deed at sold out direct prices!?

My goodness.


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## DVC Doctor

macman123 said:


> When I go I marvel at the door handle that I own with the 3,500 points I have.



Your 3,500 points is not even a rounding error compared to the total of available and sold points and honestly your tiny ownership would probably represent the toilet in the master bathroom rather than the door handle


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## Chuck96

I'd join Disboards with a username Bungalows4LYF if that was me.  But it is not.

That's a half mil purchase.  If I had that lying around, I wouldn't be buying DVC.  But to be fair, that person probably has a lot more lying around.


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## KTownRaider

RamblinWreck said:


> Someone purchased a single 2,000 point Poly deed at sold out direct prices.
> 
> My goodness.


My reaction exactly.  Simple math- comes out to $446K before closing assuming it was member pricing ($458K if it was a new member).   Good luck if they ever need to unload it...  Almost feels like malpractice to sell a single deed that large.


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## RamblinWreck

DVC Doctor said:


> Your 3,500 points is not even a rounding error compared to the total of available and sold points and honestly your tiny ownership would probably represent the toilet in the master bathroom rather than the door handle


Compared to the total points sold, sure.

But there are a lot of rooms and a lot of points!

If you had 3,500 points at the Animal Kingdom you could come close to saying you owned an entire value studio! At the Beach Club you're more like 60% of the way to owning a studio.


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## RamblinWreck

KTownRaider said:


> My reaction exactly.  Simple math- comes out to $446K before closing assuming it was member pricing ($458K if it was a new member).   Good luck if they ever need to unload it...  Almost feels like malpractice to sell a single deed that large.


I sincerely hope the person who did that has enough money to not really care whether or not they can ever unload that thing.


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## Sandisw

Good sales for both VGF and RIV. The big piece of data that I think is interesting is that only 43k of those 177K were new buyers, or a buyer like me you added a different UY.

It was half of sales of March which was only owners. So it will be good next month to see more new buyers data because that means more for potential changes for DVD to adjust things. 

RIV went up 30k points which is a good number. Average contract size is 186. VGF average contract size 150. 

IMO, not well enough yet for them to decide on resale restrictions or what to do with Poly tower since VGF sparked sales but did not take away from RIV in a meaningful was as we already knew current owners are not a fan of restrictions.


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## DKZB

Sandisw said:


> Good sales for both VGF and RIV. The big piece of data that I think is interesting is that only 43k of those 177K were new buyers, or a buyer like me you added a different UY.
> 
> It was half of sales of March which was only owners. So it will be good next month to see more new buyers data because that means more for potential changes for DVD to adjust things.
> 
> RIV went up 30k points which is a good number. Average contract size is 186. VGF average contract size 150.
> 
> IMO, not well enough yet for them to decide on resale restrictions or what to do with Poly tower since VGF sparked sales but did not take away from RIV in a meaningful was as we already knew current owners are not a fan of restrictions.


I agree. We've all said you are likely having a pretty substantial spillover from March sales that didn't close until April. It will taper off but will even continue into May and June as last payments are made on 60 and 90 day payment plans. We will have a much better idea on the true success of VGF vs. RIV in June or July IMHO.


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## sndral

DKZB said:


> I agree. We've all said you are likely having a pretty substantial spillover from March sales that didn't close until April. It will taper off but will even continue into May and June as last payments are made on 60 and 90 day payment plans. We will have a much better idea on the true success of VGF vs. RIV in June or July IMHO.


I agree that we’ll get a better sense of the trends this summer, but I’ve been curious about DVC’s April numbers & of course the article drops while I’m on vacation w/out cell/internet service!
The data shows VGF sold just under 178,000 pts., Riv sold just over 93,000 points so roughly 270,000 total direct WDW points sold between the 2 in active sales. Riv.‘s share was approx.  34%, VGF’s share was approx. 66%, thus If those comparative numbers continue, for whatever reason, buyers are opting for VGF over Riv at about a 2 to 1 ratio.
If VGF stays at 178,000 per month, it’ll sell out 9 months from now. If Riv. stays at 93,000 per month it’ll sell out in about 41 months.


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## SusieQ93

sndral said:


> I agree that we’ll get a better sense of the trends this summer, but I’ve been curious about DVC’s April numbers & of course the article drops while I’m on vacation w/out cell/internet service!
> The data shows VGF sold just under 178,000 pts., Riv sold just over 93,000 points so roughly 270,000 total direct WDW points sold between the 2 in active sales. Riv.‘s share was approx.  34%, VGF’s share was approx. 66%, thus If those comparative numbers continue, for whatever reason, buyers are opting for VGF over Riv at about a 2 to 1 ratio.
> If VGF stays at 178,000 per month, it’ll sell out 9 months from now. If Riv. stays at 93,000 per month it’ll sell out in about 41 months.


It’ll be interesting to see if the market volatility affects DVC sales this summer or not.


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## Sandisw

sndral said:


> I agree that we’ll get a better sense of the trends this summer, but I’ve been curious about DVC’s April numbers & of course the article drops while I’m on vacation w/out cell/internet service!
> The data shows VGF sold just under 178,000 pts., Riv sold just over 93,000 points so roughly 270,000 total direct WDW points sold between the 2 in active sales. Riv.‘s share was approx.  34%, VGF’s share was approx. 66%, thus If those comparative numbers continue, for whatever reason, buyers are opting for VGF over Riv at about a 2 to 1 ratio.
> If VGF stays at 178,000 per month, it’ll sell out 9 months from now. If Riv. stays at 93,000 per month it’ll sell out in about 41 months.



The vast majority of sales at VGF have been current owners adding on which typically happens during the presale for owners only.   I wish the article had broken down the 93K for RIV between new buyers and add ons like it did for VGF to see how those sales compared with each group. 

I think that 177K for VGF was due to the great incentives for March for owners and now that those are gone, I would be surprised to see that level continue, but  why I can't wait to see May numbers when it will include all buyers who had the option to chose between the two for the entire sales period being reported!


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## buzlite

Purchased 175 points for vgf2! I was able to get 3 days at Riviera during our trip. No buyer's remorse so far. 
Surprisingly I Feel like I want to be stingy with points and then remember to use them or lose them. I feel like 175 was the perfect amount for us for now. Maybe in the future we will add on to do 1bedrooms but for now I feel like I'm rolling in points.


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## SusieQ93

buzlite said:


> Purchased 175 points for vgf2! I was able to get 3 days at Riviera during our trip. No buyer's remorse so far.
> Surprisingly I Feel like I want to be stingy with points and then remember to use them or lose them. I feel like 175 was the perfect amount for us for now. Maybe in the future we will add on to do 1bedrooms but for now I feel like I'm rolling in points.


Congratulations! I keep going around in my head on how many points we should get. Decided to wait a couple months. With the way things are going in the economy (and lack of incentives for new buyers), I’m not feeling too worried about price. So in the next three months, I need to decide - first we were going to do 150. I’ve decided that’s too few. Then I was thinking 175. At one point I went all the way up to needing 225  I think 200 might be our sweet spot but it’s a hard decision! I’m probably overthinking it.


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## DarthDadMan

Do you all think the pricing or incentives change for VGF or RIV over the next year?


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## Sandisw

DarthDadMan said:


> Do you all think the pricing or incentives change for VGF or RIV over the next year?



Yes.  The price increase for RIV has seemed to change every year around February.  But I can’t believe that the incentives in June, given the current sales numbers, won’t be slightly reduced than current offerings.


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## aoconnor

What do we think will happen when current pricing expires next week - do you think the base pricing of $207 /pt will change or only the incentives?


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## Sandisw

aoconnor said:


> What do we think will happen when current pricing expires next week - do you think the base pricing of $207 /pt will change or only the incentives?



My guess is just the incentives.


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