# DVC dues - ouch!!



## talland

Just got our bill today for our dues at SSR. I do love my DVC and appreciate the value of the accomodation that we get as members - BUT I do get upset when so many offers are offered to package holidays and we seem to get very little offered to members. Examples free dining plans when buying tickets as part of a package.


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## JimC

I agree it is frustrating.  Just remember that you bought for the long term value.  When the economy cycles back the discounting will diminish.


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## Jason@dvcstore

JimC said:


> I agree it is frustrating.  Just remember that you bought for the long term value.  When the economy cycles back the discounting will diminish.



Good point.  I think the good news is that the economy appears to be slowly cycling back.  

Jason


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## wideeyes

The gift card one annoyed me,


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## Jets fan

talland said:


> Just got our bill today for our dues at SSR. I do love my DVC and appreciate the value of the accomodation that we get as members - BUT I do get upset when so many offers are offered to package holidays and we seem to get very little offered to members. Examples free dining plans when buying tickets as part of a package.



Totally agree. I purchased at OKW because we loved it and could not afford it normally. Now, I see the 40% off deals and free dining, so it's actually cheaper for us to book rather than use points. Times are tough for everybody at the moment and I can see no light at the end of the tunnel just yet. I know I have the points for when things bounce back, but I do not see DVC trying to think how they can help existing DVC members through these troubled times. DVC members cannot take advantage of these wonderful offers, which is my pet peeve!

Tina


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## JimC

Anyone can book under those offers.  If that works better for you, book that way and rent out your points.

While I understand the frustration; it is one of the factors that we all consider when we buy -- to continue to book based on discount availability or lock in long term savings.


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## Halo

JimC said:


> Anyone can book under those offers.  If that works better for you, book that way and rent out your points.



Agreed - it might sound harsh but its true.


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## RDP

This year we're banking our 2010 points into 2011. We're then booking to stay at SSR through disney to take advantage of the free dining etc. We now can have twice the accommodation next year when we use our DVC points.


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## MuxtonMiley

Yes this annoys us too. Dining Plan is sooo expensive to book to pay for. We have paid for a reservation at SSR our home resort and used points for a cruise reservation which costs a lot more in cash. If we had used points fpr SSR and paid for Dining (we have to eat!) we reckon we would only have paid about £100 less -- Disney Cruise for £100, not bad. Points will for pay for themselves as cash price goes up


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## Brandis

Funny, I was reading Kevin Yee's column on another website this morning and there was a comment of someone who apparently is not a DVC member and she complained how the Disney deals were not so good for her this year as compared to last year. Just got me thinking of the DVC members "complaining" of the opposite 



> For example, I traveled the exact same week in 2009 (MLK) week and stayed at the exact same resort with my two youngest children, Pop, yet the offer last year was a much better value, last year I got buy 4/get 3 free and a $250 gift card, where this year for values it was only 5/2 and no gift cards. Okay, so I will give them that, because this a special offer and I shouldn't "expect" any offers.


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## BckBlue

have you found dvc good value?


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## talland

Being a DVC member has allowed my family and I to stay at hotels in the heart of Disney that we could only dream of affoeding if we were not members. For example we did a costing of a two week holiday staying at AK for the four of us if we were not members and it came to not much less than we paid for our DVC membership. (price did include flights which obviously we have to pay seperately). Check out room rates for some of the hotels that DVC use and you will see how cost scan mount up. Another plus with DVC is that the accomdation is usually bigger units rather than just a hotel room. All in all we do think DVC is very good - but the annual dues do need to be taken into account when doing your figures. The other good thing is that we still have 40+ years of DVC use for my family and in a few years time the cost we paid initially will look even more attractive. As someone mentione earlier in the thread, look at the long term benefits. Hope this has been of help.


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## jharrowell

Personally I don't think we do too bad.  The discounts are transient things and Bob Iger has announced that he intends to ween the public off of them and offer less discounts.

Me, I get $125 off of my AP

I get the TiWc for ont $75 and get 20% off my meals (Not free meals I grant you, but that's also 20% off of alcahol... Yummy)

There's other discounts which I'm sure you already know then the kicker:

I get to stay at what I consider a delux level resort (this time it's AKV) for what works out at $104 a night.  (Annual dues on points used divided by the amount of days in the room).

Yes I know there is the initial outlay as well, but if you split that by the amount of years left to run on the contract and the amount of points you have, the addition is negligable (If I did my maths right it added $2 roughly).

Sounds like a good deal to me!


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## needtogomore

JimC said:


> Anyone can book under those offers.  If that works better for you, book that way and rent out your points.



So disney sells us a vacation for 42% off and free dining, then we rent our points to someone who would have paid Disney for a vacation,  not been really thought out has it.


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## disney_princess_85

jharrowell said:


> Personally I don't think we do too bad.  The discounts are transient things and Bob Iger has announced that he intends to ween the public off of them and offer less discounts.
> 
> Me, I get $125 off of my AP
> 
> I get the TiWc for ont $75 and get 20% off my meals (Not free meals I grant you, but that's also 20% off of alcahol... Yummy)
> 
> There's other discounts which I'm sure you already know then the kicker:
> 
> I get to stay at what I consider a delux level resort (this time it's AKV) for what works out at $104 a night.  (Annual dues on points used divided by the amount of days in the room).
> 
> Yes I know there is the initial outlay as well, but if you split that by the amount of years left to run on the contract and the amount of points you have, the addition is negligable (If I did my maths right it added $2 roughly).
> 
> Sounds like a good deal to me!



You make some good points. 

We're thinking of buying into DVC in the future but will hold off for a while, until the great offers are all but a distant memory- may as well take advantage of them while we can!


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## pampat

We bought DVC in 1993 and can honestly say that we've never for a moment regretted it.  It has been one of our best investments.

However, as we are now coming up to retirement, we have to consider that the annual dues will not be so easy to meet and are in the process of selling our VB points.  On the other hand they are going to have to pry my OKW points out of my cold, dead hands!  Never giving those up.

Pam


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## Disneymad

pampat said:


> We bought DVC in 1993 and can honestly say that we've never for a moment regretted it.  It has been one of our best investments.



We bought in 2001 and I totally agree!

DVC membership gives the single biggest AP discount available (better even than the CM discount I'm told) which in turn, allows you to buy the Tables in Wonderland card which is also, a fantastic deal in itself.

While the big discounts and free dining sound amazing, when you do the actual math the gap isn't as wide (or doesn't exist at all) for many people as might appear as it depends largely on the specific make up of your travel party.

There's something about that word "Free" that brings with it a certain perception that everything else in comparison is automatically worse - that's not always the way it works out.


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## jekupsiller

I bought the OKW, because we are the heart and could not normally afford.Now I see 50% discount and offers free food, so it is actually cheaper for us to book instead of using points.Times are tough for everyone right now and I can not see the light at the end of the tunnel yet. I know I have issues, because when things recover, but I do not see DVC try to think how they can help existing DVC members get through tough times.


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## Brandis

If it's cheaper, you could always rent out your points and book cash.


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## skelfbsfb

I own at OKW and are not happy at the discounts that they are offering, If i stay there at the same time and want DDP then I have to pay.  Why can WDW not offer all who stay at these resort the free DDP, or DVC members money off.


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## Brandis

Why should they do this? Disney is a profit-oriented company, they offer such discounts or apparent freebies not because they are nice but because it gets people to book the resorts at rack rate.

There is no need to get DVC members back to the resort, they are coming anyway.

But in the long run, you still will save money with DVC.


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## skelfbsfb

Brandis said:


> Why should they do this? Disney is a profit-oriented company, they offer such discounts or apparent freebies not because they are nice but because it gets people to book the resorts at rack rate.
> 
> There is no need to get DVC members back to the resort, they are coming anyway.
> 
> But in the long run, you still will save money with DVC.



I understand that but in the long run if they continue doing this at these resorts then it will devalue in price if you decide to sell your points on.  It would also be nice to recognise the people who are investing their money in their company for the long term, not just now and again.


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## Brandis

Ah, but it's not an investment, it's a pre-payment of vacation accommodations. In the long run, when the economy picks up again, the discounts will go away, while we save on the villas and studios.


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## skelfbsfb

Sorry but I still see it as an investment, something I put my money into and pay dues for the up keep of.  Now if i want to sell my points at OKW, who in their right mind would buy at this resort knowing that Disney are giving people freebies to stay here, DDP and upgrades to 1 bedrooms if they are staying at moderate hotels.  why do I and other DVC members who want to stay here not getting the upgrades to 1 bedrooms or even a discount on DDP.


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## Chuck S

skelfbsfb said:


> I own at OKW and are not happy at the discounts that they are offering, If i stay there at the same time and want DDP then I have to pay.  Why can WDW not offer all who stay at these resort the free DDP, or DVC members money off.



Who would pay for it, and how? Disney justifies the free DDP because it is filling a cash room that would probably otherwise go empty.  If DVC were to offer it to members, how would it be funded?  More dues?  There would be no advantage to Disney Vacation Development or DVC Marketing to fund it...we're already members, we're already paid.




skelfbsfb said:


> Sorry but I still see it as an investment, something I put my money into and pay dues for the up keep of.  Now if i want to sell my points at OKW, who in their right mind would buy at this resort knowing that Disney are giving people freebies to stay here, DDP and upgrades to 1 bedrooms if they are staying at moderate hotels.  why do I and other DVC members who want to stay here not getting the upgrades to 1 bedrooms or even a discount on DDP.



The documents you signed at purchase state specifically that it is not an investment, only a pre-paid vacation plan.  If you did not agree with that definition, it probably was not a good idea to purchase.

As far as why they don't upgrade DVCers on points, DVC does not own/control the rooms once they have been turned over to cash inventory. How is it fair to upgrade one owner over another, who would choose, and would it be legal to do so on a regular basis? 

Cash room inventory comes from several sources: 
1) rooms retained by Disney 
2) points reacquired by Disney through ROFR 
3) rooms turned over to cash inventory to offset Member trades and
4) breakage rooms not reserved by members at 60 days.

The first 2 types of cash rooms are not owned by members, Disney may do with them as they please, just as any other owner may do with their ownership.  The trade offset rooms also are unavailable to DVC members, as these rooms have to be rented for cash to offset the cost of the trade, the alternative would be to raise dues even higher, or eliminate trading to non-DVC venues.  The breakage rooms, the smallest pool of rooms available for cash, can be reclaimed by Member Services for point reservations, but again, there would be an expense involved even for the bookkeeping to do so, which would raise our dues. And again, would lead to the question of which owners to upgrade.


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## skelfbsfb

Chuck S said:


> Who would pay for it, and how? Disney justifies the free DDP because it is filling a cash room that would probably otherwise go empty.  If DVC were to off it to members, how would it be funded?  More dues?  There would be no advantage to Disney Vacation Development or DVC Marketing to fund it...we're already members, we're already paid
> The documents you signed at purchase state specifically that it is not an investment, only a pre-paid vacation plan.  If you did not agree with that definition, it probably was not a good idea to purchase.
> 
> As far as why they don't upgrade DVCers on points, DVC does not own/control the rooms once they have been turned over to cash inventory. How is it fair to upgrade one owner over another, who would choose, and would it be legal to do so on a regular basis?
> 
> Cash room inventory comes from several sources:
> 1) rooms retained by Disney
> 2) points reacquired by Disney through ROFR
> 3) rooms turned over to cash inventory to offset Member trades and
> 4) breakage rooms not reserved by members at 60 days.
> 
> The first 2 types of cash rooms are not owned by members, Disney may do with them as they please, just as any other owner may do with their ownership.  The trade offset rooms also are unavailable to DVC members, as these rooms have to be rented for cash to offset the cost of the trade, the alternative would be to raise dues even higher, or eliminate trading to non-DVC venues.  The breakage rooms, the smallest pool of rooms available or cash, can be reclaimed by Member Service for point reservation, but again, their would be an expense involved even for the bookkeeping to do so, which would raise our dues. And again, would lead to the question of which owners to upgrade.



Chuck thanks for this info.


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## Louisebshp

Yes fees this year are a bit ouch! 

But longterm we've not regretted our purchase - whilst things are tight just now, it will get better. Without DVC we couldn't holiday a la Disney as we do now.

Louise


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## Marie9LPG

Just costed up what our upcoming trip (2-16 July) would cost at rack rates:

3 nights OKW studio
3 nights BWV studio
3 nights BCV 1 bed
5 nights AKV 1 bed, savannah view.

$7820 inc tax!!!!!!

Yes, it wiped out 2 years of points(415) but there is NO WAY I would pay that OOP!

Marie


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## Samaya

Found this thread very interesting, I can see both sides and it certainly raises many points.

One of those is that non-members from the UK are getting a better deal than members.

So I thought I would check that out and compare a booking made with member points against a cash booking made directly with Disney UK.

All comparisons are for a 2-week vacation checking in on Friday 28th Oct and checking out on Friday 11th November, flights not included.

204 points for a SSR studio; original cost to purchase an SSR point, around $2.00 for each year. Add 2011 annual dues of $4.52: Total per point $6.52.

204 points at $6.52 each equals $1,330, at today's exchange rate £825.
2 x Disney Dining Plan £923
2 x Disney's 14 Day Ultimate Ticket £450
Total Price £2,198

Booking a studio directly with Disney's at Saratoga Springs Resort.
Plus 2 x Disney's 14-Day Ultimate Ticket
Plus 2 x Disney Dining Plan 
Total Price £2,284.0

Okay not a lot of difference, so for this year a little better off being a member.

But as a DVC member I do have a choice of when and where I use my SSR points. Therefore, I might be able to make a reservation at Animal Kingdom Villas - Kidani Village in a studio with a savannah view for 232 points, total cost for this including 2 x Disney Dining Plan and 2 x Disney's 14 Day Ultimate Ticket, £2,320.

But if I book the same accommodation, dining and tickets directly through Disney it would cost me today £5,070 and that's one of the many reason's why we became members.


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## Mrs Hobbes

It is simple for us we could not afford to stay in a villa without DVC.  Yes free dining would be nice but if we took advantage of it we would be a regular resort room.  We've just come back from a weekend away with our girls staying a family room at a Holiday inn.  It was only slightly smaller than a studio room and sharing with our girls aged 14 and 8 was a nightmare!  Our 14 year old can manage late nights but our 8 year old can't.  However she doesn't sleep well so she was awake until nearly 11 most nights with us and consequently she was tired and grumpy.  On a disney holiday we would all have to go to bed at 9pm to ensure the kids got enough sleep, not my idea of a fun vacation.


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## crabbie1

From someone who is thinking of buying ino DVC this year I think a lot of valid points have been raised. Can I just say that for people who love SSR and OKW the UK deal is good and I has taken up this offer for 5 nights at OKW this trip prior to the cruise.However the offer in the UK is only on 2 of the DVC resorts. I presume this is because they are the largest.I cannot see any offers being extended to AKLV BW or the others. Now we all have our favorites and out of the two on offer I prefer OKW by a long shot.
I have also rented points for 3 years now as staying at DVC resorts is cheaper than booking direct through disney UK in the times we have visited and AKL is cheaper renting points. The remainder of our trip doesnt have the offer on so it is a lot cheaper renting from a DVC member even adding the DDP on but if the annual pass is purchased and the TIW is purchased then the DDp doesnt seem that attractive to us.
From comments I have read and as we are buying with the intention to go every year I feel it is a good idea. I know there are monthly dues which will be around £53 a month (based on current exchange rate) for us. 
For people looking into buying it is really interesting to read this forum and gives us beginners a good insight into the membership.
We have saved around £900 buy renting points this year.


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## skelfbsfb

You can get the DDP free for other resorts as well.


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## crabbie1

skelfbsfb said:


> You can get the DDP free for other resorts as well.



I was talking abt the discounted rooms not being offered at the other resorts. The 42% discount william


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## skelfbsfb

crabbie1 said:


> I was talking abt the discounted rooms not being offered at the other resorts. The 42% discount william



Trust me I knew I should have read the whole thread


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## caledonia

I remember when you used to get free entry into parks for duration of your stay that was an incentive to buy at OLD KEY WEST and for a few years after the launch of DVC in the mid 90's members had this perk which expired approx 1997. Unfortunately when I bought at Boardwalk in 1999 this was not on offer however the credit towards purchase was although I suspect it was built into the price as you need incentives of some description (even Disney and more say now than ever) Would I buy now,no but I have had reasonable value for money even although the annual dues are now expensive and as I paid upfront the worry of meeting high interest charges at the time was a good choice.I am at the time of life where my kids are older that I shall use my points on them or use passport breaks.

Ian 

Ian


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