# Policy about size of scooters on buses



## KPeveler

I know that a lot of people have heard that Disney is enforcing the ADA guidelines for a "common wheelchair" when loading scooters/ECV on the buses.  Hopefully this post will clear some things up:

*What size is allowed?*
The maximum size allowed on the buses, as defined by the ADA is:  30 inches wide by 48 inches long.  This size MUST include all baskets and bags, according to the policy.





*Why are they doing this?*
This is for safety reasons.  For a scooter to be safely tied down on the bus, it must be able to fit into the designated space on the bus.  The buses were designed according to the ADA guidelines, which states the largest size for a standard wheelchair (i.e. the largest size that the bus must accommodate) is 30" wide by 48" long.
This is a picture of the box being painted on the ground at bus stops.




It is 30 inches wide by 48 inches long from the outside of the white line on one side to the outside of the white line on the other side.

*What about the companies listed in the FAQs?*

Apple Scooters: All scooters will fit.

Randy's Mobility: They do not state it specifically, but judging by photographs and the models they do say they rent, all scooters will fit.

Walker Mobility:  They do not state it specifically, but they appear to use only Pride products, which means all scooters will fit.

CareMedical: They do not list the manufacturers of their scooters.

Buena Vista Scooters: All scooters will fit.

Scootarama:  All scooters will fit

Scootorlando: All but the Dream Scooter should fit, though they do not give specific models.  I know that their website says that the Dream will fit, but per a Transportation CM here on the board, bus drivers have been instructed not to load them, and the company has apparently been notified.

*So what does this mean for me?*

It means you should CALL YOUR COMPANY when you make a reservation for any of the larger/heavy-duty scooters and ask what models they use.  You can find dimensions for any scooter online.

PLEASE double check everything I have said here.  What I have said is not a guarantee, and you should always double check with the company.


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## Cheshire Figment

I checked the specifications of my ECV, the Pride Celebrity-X, which is the "standard size" ECV used by many of the off-site vendors.  It is 24 x 46, so it will fit into the size box with no problems.

And to add a comment, the ECV has to fit in the painted box with the front wheel(s) straight ahead.  The Dream is of such size that the wheel has to be turned 90 degrees for it to fit.


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## KPeveler

People with very large powerchairs may also want to check them out.  I have not heard that powerchairs will also be affected, especially since they are easier to maneuver in tight spaces generally, but my Quantum Q600 is 47 inches long, including the footplate.  So anyone with a mobility device they MUST use should double check they are going to be able to make it on the bus without a problem!


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## cranbiz

Generally, if it is a "Mobility Device" per ADA regulations, it will be carried. 

The Dream Scooter is NOT a "Mobility Device" per the regulations. The Dream Scooter is a "Convenience Device"

Within the next 6 months all resorts will have the painted box for sizing purposes. The box dimensions are 30X48. Your device must fit in the box in a normal configuration, turning the front wheels is not a normal configuration. (Note: I believe that 30x48 are the dimensions, but 32x48 seems to be the ADA number. I have not measured the box, I'm going on the info provided to all Bus cast members. If your device happens to be 32X48 and it fits on the lift normally, I'll take you. The length is more of a problem than the width on the bus unless you are trying to fit on the lift)

To use a lift style bus, the device and rider cannot weigh more than 600 pounds. It is permissible to load the device and rider separately but be aware that the driver is not required to move your device. The ramp style buses have a weight limit of 800 pounds.

If you have an Ibot device, that is a "Mobility Device" per ADA, will fit and will be transported. You will be asked to use it in the 4 wheel position for transport.

As stated before, if you are unsure about the device that you are renting, please check with the provider, get the model that you will be renting and double check with the manufacturer.

Also remember that parties of more than 6, including the ECV user will be split up. 6 is the number allowed to board through the back doors, extras will be required to use the normal queue.

These are effective 10/1/2010  (Today)


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## SueM in MN

Thank you for the official, cranbiz.

As of this morning (Oct 1, 2010) there are not boxes painted on the ground yet at bus stops at Port Orleans New Orleans or at Old Key West, but 6 months seems a reasonable time to get them all painted.

This morning, I saw a guest with a Dream scooter get turned down for loading at Port Orleans. The driver put down the ramp and then came out to talk to the guest. I could not hear what was being said because of all the noise from other guests, but could see the driver shaking his head "no" and pointing at the scooter and it looked like he was signifying "too big".

After the bus left, I could hear the man say, "They let us on with this all week. They can't just make a date and say they are not allowed any more.......We'll wait for the next bus and see if we can get on."
The next bus came and that driver did load the Dream scooter.


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## SueM in MN

This morning (Oct 1, 2010) there were no boxes painted at OKW, but as of 5pm, there were boxes painted at 2 of the OKW bus stops - Miller's Road and the Hospitality House.
Here's a picture of the box at Miller's Road.


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## ispies

SO we planned on renting one for my mom at an off location just bc we are staying at the Pop Century and we want one for at the resort -- which place is best and which model is best for the buses -- THANKS in advance


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## maroo

I am sitting in the airport coming home from a stay at Pop with a powerchair. 

I rented from Apple Scooters and found them to have great prices, good equipment and exceptional customer service. 

All of the equipment that can be rented from Apple Scooters will fit on the buses.


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## SueM in MN

ispies said:


> SO we planned on renting one for my mom at an off location just bc we are staying at the Pop Century and we want one for at the resort -- which place is best and which model is best for the buses -- THANKS in advance


If you look on post #1 of this thread, KPeveler has listed some information about the different companies and all have scooters that will fit on the bus. As for which is easier, many people find the 3 wheel scooters easier to manouver.

You will find information on post #2 of the disABILITIES FAQs thread about different companies the DIS posters recommend, including contact information. You can find that thread near the top of this board or follow the link in my signature to get there.

*For other posters - we would like to keep this thread focused on SIZE of ECV and the new bus policies about BOARDING. So, if you have reports on which ECV you used and how it fit or boarding, please post it here rather than making a new post. That way, size and new policy boarding information will be here on this thread.

If you have more general questions, please look in the disABILITIES FAQs first to see if your question can be answered there. If not, please start a new thread with your question - more people who can answer will see it that way since people are looking in this thread for information about the bus policy.*


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## RaySharpton

Here is a photo of my Pride Revo 3 wheel portable scooter which is 
42 inches long and 24 inches wide.







This photo was taken at the Pop Century Resort

I like the Pop Century Resort layout for entering the bus line better than any other resort or park at WDW.   Their different bus stops are spread out and not right next to each other like at Epcot.

I really, really do not like the layout for entering the bus line at Epcot.    I usually drive through the main line with all of the walkers because the scooter line that I would usually use to get to the scooter loading area is actually the entrance line for another resort.     I have seen a separate rope entrance in the regular main line that looks like a spot to unlock, but there are no instructions for whether I or the bus driver should open this rope, so I don't.   Sometimes, I must wait for a second bus as other guests pass me to get onboard because at night and especially at very busy park closings the bus driver may not see me in line and start loading all of the walkers.    The bus driver usually directs me to me to the side for the next bus which usually comes very quickly.

I have always preferred the three wheel scooter over the four wheel scooter for manuvering in tight places like the inside the bus or bus main lines or WDW park attraction main lines with sharp turns.    

I usually drive straight on the bus ramp drive past the spot where I will park as close as necessary to the open seats on the left side of the bus.    But before I drive onboard the bus driver usally informs the walkers in the main line that he is going to load a wheelchair/scooter and then walks back to lower the lift/ramp.    He/she then lifts the special three seats up against the bus wall and instructs me to carefully drive on and park in this space.

Once I reach a spot that I feel is right, I will back up and parallel park like anyone would do with a car in a parking space.    Except in a car, where you would use the right side of the street, on the bus you use the left side of the bus.

If people are standing in front of me or already in the seats to my left where I want to drive, then it becomes a little more difficult.    Especially if they are holding a folded baby carriage. But I always say just before proceding next to them that I am just going to parallel park like a car, and that I am not trying to hit their feet.

Hence, one of the reasons to let scooters/wheelchairs enter the bus first before the bus is occupied, and to let scooters/wheelchairs exit last after all of the guests have exited.

Driving in a straight line forward/backward for getting on a lift/ramp, and parallel parking would be a good exercise to practice for any newbies.

If you have a hard time with this manuever and you can physically get out of your scooter, then stand at the front of the scooter tiller and slowly direct your scooter into your space as directed by the bus driver.    My scooter locks in place when I take the key out, so I will either but the speed dial in turtle/slow speed and guide the scooter back to the space like I was parallel parking.     Or you can do what the WDW Castmembers do at the park attractions when they move your scooter without a key and use a two way knob on the back of your scooter to unlock the wheels.    This will allow you to push the scooter backwards instead of using power like I do.

One time, when I am on a bus from a park to a resort with multiple stops I have had to load with another wheelchair/scooter.     I park the same way on the bus whether in the first or second spot.      But when exiting and I am the first to exit and I am in the spot furtherest away from the exit, I found it might be a little more difficult to exit with the other scooter parked in the space that is usually used in the spot where I turn around.

When this happens, sometimes while waiting for the bus, I might strike up a conversation with the person in the scooter next to me and ask which resort stop are they getting off.    If my stop was after their stop, I would go ahead and get on first and so that they can get off their exit first.

If I was the first of two scooters loaded and I was placed further up the bus aisle. When I exit, I found it was more difficult to exit if the second scooter was exiting at another stop and the other scooter was still parked when I tried to exit.    

If you can't turn around because of the space limitation, try exiting very slowly.    Usually when you reach a certain point, the bus driver will ask you to turn you tiller all the way to the right.    This will allow you to make a 90 degree turn and to turn down the ramp backwards and then straighten your driving all the way down.

Or you can have a friend steer the tiller for you in turtle/slow speed or unlocked wheel mode by standing in front of your tiller why you are still sitting on the scooter.    Just be careful when going down the ramp in free wheel mode because you won't have breaks.    Or if you can, you can do this yourself which was not so hard.     I thought that the scooter would get away from me on the ramp down, but it didn't.

As I said this only happened once, and it only happened when going from a park to multilple bus stops and I was in the front parking space.

It is never a problem when everyone is getting off at the same place like going to a park or a resort with only one stop or if you are in the back parking space.

From my experience, most bus drivers ask if you can get out and sit near the scooter for safety reasons. 

Some of those bus turns can seem fast and sharp and may feel like it may slightly tip the scooter if you are are still on the scooter because of the body weight is much higher in the air than just the scooter's motor which is close to the ground.

I have been very tempted to stay on the scooter, and I think that I will do this from now on when the bus line is very long to allow more people on the bus. But this is just my preference and opinion to do so on those very busy Magic Kingdom closings, etc..

I normally like to get off of the scooter because I find myself holding tightly onto the folded up seat when the bus turns.    I guess because my feet are on the scooter and not on the ground to help brace myself and there is nothing else to hold onto.

When you exit the bus, try to remember to drive off the bus just as slowly as you drove on and watch out for the curved floor area near the ramp so that you don't feel like you might tip over. And carefully exit the ramp by not turning to sharply and not get caught on the ledge of the ramps.

I usally always drive to WDW and park my car for the duration of my stay. I do this because I love the WDW bus/boat/monorail transportation system and use them during my entire trip.

Even though my Pride Revo scooter is easy to dissassemble and reassemble in and out of my car, it can get very tiring at the end of a long day.

Hence, I love WDW and their transportation systems.

Again, this is just my opinion and preference for myself.


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## SueM in MN

Thanks for your picture and your very complete report, Ray.


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## lovetoscrap

I find it very interesting that the company that rents the Dream is specifically advertising it (as of right now) as "Fits on All Buses", "Fits on Disney Transportation" and "is specifically for . . . visitors staying in hotels on-property at Walt Disney World or Universal Studios Florida who plan to use resort-provided bus, boat or monorail transportation . . .  "  and features a video on how to load it onto a Disney bus (a lift bus no less!)

This is only going to make it harder for the Disney bus drivers as people argue that they were specifically told it fits on the buses.  I know that I would be frustrated if I rented it and then was being denied entry on the buses.  Ultimately my anger would be directed at the rental company as I demanded a refund, but of course at the time of trying to board the bus I will admit that I would probably get cranky with the driver telling me no.  And if the policy is not being consistently applied that will make things even worse for the drivers that are doing what they are supposed to.


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## Cheshire Figment

The people renting the Dream Scooter also used to have videos that showed people driving ECVs with a child in their lap.

And, as a CM, I have sometimes had to tell people that I don't care what any non-Disney company told them they could do, they are not authorized to speak for Disney and gave the Guest incorrect information.


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## Mary976

DD might finally be getting a power chair soon (she has a manual right now).  She is an average sized young adult.  I had asked about power chairs and door openings on this board before and I think the response is that power chairs look big but have an average "footprint" when it comes to thinks like doorways and buses.  Has anyone had an issue with a power chair being too large?  I'm worried if it doesn't fit at Disney, it might not work for the transport van her school uses either.  

Thanks,
Mary


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## KPeveler

What model chair is she getting?  I have a Quantum Q600 and it fits just fine.  An average adult chair should have no problem fitting.  One member of our board here even fits with a ventilator and other special equipment.


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## Mary976

KPeveler said:


> What model chair is she getting?  I have a Quantum Q600 and it fits just fine.  An average adult chair should have no problem fitting.  One member of our board here even fits with a ventilator and other special equipment.




Thanks!  I did just notice your post above about your chair fitting even with the footplate.  We are actually not sure what she's getting yet.  She needs to go into the wheelchair clinic again, and then she can try out a couple options.  It's a been a long process because we've been back and forth about her needs.  Certain health factors have been changing, which is challenging, plus she's going to college and needs more independence.  It's a big difference though, in terms of possibly needing a new ramp for our house and needing new car transport options.  I did just talk to the mother of DD's friend who is a full time power chair user, and the dimensions of that girl's chair will work for WDW buses, as well as our city buses and her school van.  Our next trip to WDW is in January, and I don't want there to be any weird problems!

Mary


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## SueM in MN

Mary976 said:


> Thanks!  I did just notice your post above about your chair fitting even with the footplate.  We are actually not sure what she's getting yet.  She needs to go into the wheelchair clinic again, and then she can try out a couple options.  It's a been a long process because we've been back and forth about her needs.  Certain health factors have been changing, which is challenging, plus she's going to college and needs more independence.  It's a big difference though, in terms of possibly needing a new ramp for our house and needing new car transport options.  I did just talk to the mother of DD's friend who is a full time power chair user, and the dimensions of that girl's chair will work for WDW buses, as well as our city buses and her school van.  Our next trip to WDW is in January, and I don't want there to be any weird problems!
> 
> Mary


The dimensions (no larger than 30 inches wide and 48 inches long) are not new. They have been 'out there' as the standard space for mobility devices for many years.
Devices that are manufactured for use by people with disabilities are designed to fit within a space that size, so if she gets a wheelchair or ECV made for use inside by people with disabilities, it will fit.
The problem comes when people start using things that were not designed for mobility for people with disabilities and, so, don't meet that standard size. 
The major companies making power wheelchairs in the US are Jazzy (Pride Mobility), Invacare, Sunrise Medical, Permobile and a few others. They all will be designed for the standard.


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## Mary976

Thanks Sue, that makes a lot of sense.  Glad to hear these have been the dimensions for awhile.

Mary


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## selina4disney

I used a Pride Victory from Randy's Mobility last trip. It fits fine on the bus (and is exactly the same size as the Celebrity X I always rented from them before) and we had one bus driver tell me we could not get on. I'd been riding all week. The Pride Victory 9 or 10 3-wheel is 22.25" wide and  46"long. So it is close on the length but still fits. I told him I knew it fit, we'd already been there 8 days and it fit fine on every other bus. He was pretty snarky actually but he did let us on...my DH said he heard him mutter "sorry" when I got off the bus but I didn't hear him.

And, not to start any rumors, but if anyone else has heard this I'd like to know...we all know bus drivers are a font of misinformation, but one told me that "pretty soon" no 3-wheeled scooters would be allowed at all regardless of size. I find this hard to believe since they maneuver so much easier that the 4-wheeled ones and are much easier to park on the bus. Then again I had one tell me two years ago that in six months no scooters at all would be allowed on the buses and next thing you know they had several buses that held more than two scooters so I tend to take everything they say with a grain of salt.

The one that told me that 3-wheeled scooters were no longer going to be allowed also ONLY put the passenger seatbelt across the scooter...he didn't cinch in the wheels at all! He was saying how dangerous and unstable the 3-wheelers are on buses and once we stopped and I watched him release my scooter, I thought, yeah, I bet they are when you don't even anchor them in!

All of the other drivers were wonderful, just those two that were kind of odd.


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## cranbiz

I really wish those drivers would just not talk to guests.

There is nothing going on about abolishing the transportation of 3 wheeled scooters or about not carrying scooters. Legally, it can not be done. If they are classified as a mobility device per ADA guidelines (which also means they adhere to the size specifications), then they ride, 3 wheels or 4 wheels.

Guests on a 3 wheeled device will be asked to transfer (or should be) to a seat for safety reasons while guests on a 4 wheel device may not necessarily be asked. (I'm going to ask you any way but don't feel pressured to move, a simple no works for me) 

If you are on a  3 wheeled ECV, I personally wish for you to transfer (and Don't feel guilty about taking up an extra seat). IMHO it's safer than staying on the ECV even with lap and shoulder belts.


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## RaySharpton

Thank you for your insight and replies. I really appreciate your posts and I enjoy reading them.



cranbiz said:


> There is nothing going on about abolishing the transportation of 3 wheeled scooters or about not carrying scooters. Legally, it can not be done. If they are classified as a mobility device per ADA guidelines (which also means they adhere to the size specifications), then they ride, 3 wheels or 4 wheels..


 
This makes since, and I really didn't think that 3-wheel scooters would be banned, but with the recent changes to the bus stop line chains, new scooter restriction size boxes on the pavement, etc., I can see that someone questioning the info.

Thank you for clarifing this question.



cranbiz said:


> Guests on a 3 wheeled device will be asked to transfer (or should be) to a seat for safety reasons while guests on a 4 wheel device may not necessarily be asked. (I'm going to ask you any way but don't feel pressured to move, a simple no works for me) .


 
I agree, and I usually volunteer to get off of my scooter.   I have stayed on my scooter on very long lined, busy, MK closing buses, and I felt like I should stay in my scooter chair so an extra person could load the bus. But I also remember having to hold on to the folded chair to brace myself during big turns of the bus because I felt the scooter tilt a little. With the scooter motor weight near the ground the scooter is stable, but when a rider sits in the chair, the weight of the person is much higher off of the ground and may tend to make the scooter want to possibly tilt on faster bus turns.



cranbiz said:


> If you are on a 3 wheeled ECV, I personally wish for you to transfer (and Don't feel guilty about taking up an extra seat). IMHO it's safer than staying on the ECV even with lap and shoulder belts.


 
I agree.


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## selina4disney

cranbiz said:


> I really wish those drivers would just not talk to guests.
> 
> There is nothing going on about abolishing the transportation of 3 wheeled scooters or about not carrying scooters. Legally, it can not be done. If they are classified as a mobility device per ADA guidelines (which also means they adhere to the size specifications), then they ride, 3 wheels or 4 wheels.
> 
> Guests on a 3 wheeled device will be asked to transfer (or should be) to a seat for safety reasons while guests on a 4 wheel device may not necessarily be asked. (I'm going to ask you any way but don't feel pressured to move, a simple no works for me)
> 
> If you are on a  3 wheeled ECV, I personally wish for you to transfer (and Don't feel guilty about taking up an extra seat). IMHO it's safer than staying on the ECV even with lap and shoulder belts.



Thanks for you post and reassurance! I really didn't think it was true but you never know. We had mostly wonderful drivers, as usual...I always thank them as I know this is extra work for them, and one I said thank you to and told him if he wasn't there I couldn't come to WDW told me "No, thank YOU. If you weren't coming, I wouldn't get paid so I appreciate all the guests!" I thought that was very sweet. One driver I talked to, a female, whom I asked when they got the new uniforms, said she didn't care for them much. I like your signature line...I miss the cheery purple pants! 

I certainly understand getting off the scooter and sitting in a seat (although my family---which most often is just my DH---usually goes ahead and stands if there are a lot of people in the queue) because of safety issues, and I'd much rather be safe too than fall over, probably on someone (which would not make their trip very magical either...) so I am certainly going to move since I always have a three-wheeler and I have seen how it can move, even anchored. I am happy to know there aren't plans to abolish them from the buses!

A salute and big thank you to you and the other drivers that make it possible for me to be there!


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## RaySharpton

I would like to ask several questions to any WDW bus drivers (WDW policy maker) out there about WDW resort/park bus stop line setup.

1. Do you think that WDW will try to make all of their resort/park bus stops appear to look the consistenlty the same as far as the way a wheelchair/scooter will enter the mainstream line with other walkers, the width of the lines, the use of chains and poles as dividers for the lines? (And I realize every park/resort has limited space or area to arrange bus stops such as MK and especially Epcot's Pop Century bus stop with smaller spaces and the opposite with Pop Century with huge spaces between each bus stop.)

2. I notice that the "Epcot"/Pop Century bus stop has a chain with a clasp on the far right side of the front of the line near where the rear door of the bus would be located.(I am just using this stop as an example.) This is located on the opposite end of the main walker entrance to the bus. I have heard other posters say that when their wheelchair/scooter reaches this spot, that they unclasp the chain and enter through this spot to wait in the traditional unmarked area to wait for the bus. I presume that they reattach the chain afterwards. What is the WDW Castmember policy for unclasping a chain in line by a guest in a wheelchair/scooter? 

3. Do you think that they will put the white box for scooter restriction size in one particular place in the bus line? The one at the Pop Century Resort was placed in the back row, separated from the main walker line. This may have been changed since last May, but I put a photo in an early post on this thread.

4. What do you think that the bus stop lines at the parks/resorts will eventually look like as far as entrance/exit for walkers and wheelchairs/scooters, including where the white size restriction box will be located what is expected by the wheelchair/scooter person?

In my opinion, I think that all bus stops should include the following:

1. Some kind of sign of instruction for both the walker and the wheelchair/scooter person can read so that there will be no confusion by anyone at the park/resort bus stops of what is expected.

2. If the wheelchair/scooter is going to go through the walker main line at the bus stop, and they reach the open spot of the bus stop line where walkers walk onto the bus, a sign should be put here to instruct the wheelchair/scooter to either stay put or move over to the usual unmarked space where the bus rear door will be located.

3. Similar to above question, if the wheelchair/scooter is going to go through the walker main line at the bus stop, and they reach the chain link with a clasp spot in the front line on the far left of the walker entrance of the bus, there should be a sign to instruct the wheelchair/scooter to either stay put and wait for a bus driver to open the chain or for the wheelchair/scooter person to open this chain themselves, drive through, close the chain clasp themselves and then move over to the usual unmarked space where the bus rear door will be located.

4. And I think that the white, wheelchair/scooter size restriction box should be painted on the pavement in two places at a park/resort bus stop.
(a) First, one should be placed somewhere outside of the bus stop line so that a scooter can see if their scooter will meet the size guideline before entering the main bus line and having to wait to go all of the way through the line before finding out if there scooter is to big to load. It seems like this might save the scooter rider a lot wasted time in line. But I realize that there is really only one scooter called the Dream scooter that is the only oversized scooter that is rented offsite to be used at WDW.
(b) Second, one should be placed where the scooter should be parked after leaving the main line to the place near where the rear door of the bus will be located. Or placed where it would be the easiest for the bus driver to come out of the bus to determine if the scooter fits in the box size criteria. I don't know if it would be easier near the front door of the bus just past where the walkers get onboard the bus so that it won't be in the way of the walkers. Or near the traditonal unmarked space near the rear door of the bus will be located.

5. That the persons painting the white, wheelchair/scooter size restriction box should be painted on the surface consitently, preferably by someone able to understand how a wheelchair/scooter drives and is able to move their device. Especially in tight spots at the bus stop like if they decide to place one near where the rear door of the bus may be. Please don't put it to close to where the bus will eventually park, especially where there is no curb like at MK or Epcot. 

6. Just try to think like a wheelchair/scooter person would think when planning these new changes. 

7. Try to be consistent as possible with every park/resort bus stop design and actual implementaion. 

8. Try to place visible signs where the wheelchair/scooter person can make the appropriate decision and not to guess at what they are supposed to do or move or stay put in a bus line. These signs may also avoid any angry walkers who think that wheelchair/scooters may be breaking in line, which we are not, but they don't know. I know WDW doesn't want any guest to feel humilated and embarrased just because we are trying to board a bus.   But this might be helped with simple signs put up for everyone to read.

9. I use a mobility scooter that I own, and I like to get in mainstream lines in the parks and I will like proper mainstream bus stop lines that are not difficult to use and understand and use by everyone.

10. I also would like WDW to please carefully consider the individual wheelchair user that completely depends on their wheelchair for their mobility and take their needs into consideration for space needed and concern for other guests, childern that might be to close to them and might inadvertently harm their wheelchair equipment.

11. I would also especially remind WDW that there are wheelchair owners the are not only completely dependent on their own wheelchair to get around, but also completely dependent on their life using their onboard ventilator which is their life support. We all know how crowded some lines can be and how frustrated very tired guests can be at closing park times. What would happen...if in such a situation that I described above...that a person rushed past the person on life support and accidentally disconnected a piece of their tubing that was vital to their breathing using their ventilator. It would certainly be an accident. But this needs to be taken into consideration.

Now think about how this same wheelchair/ventilator dependant person thinks about getting in line and waiting in line and worrying about the close encounters by guests/children on those dark, crowded, loud, bus line nights.

Would you want your child or wife to feel this fear and anxiety of what may happen if someone accidently played with their ventilator tubing while in a bus line or on a dark, standing room only bus(loading or unloading with a full bus)?

If any one from WDW is reading this post, please take in consideration these possible events.

If any one from WDW is reading this post, please consider having a include a person or persons that actually uses a wheelchair in various transportation changes on your "think tank committee" that makes decisions on bus line changes and bus loading changes on a full bus.

If any one from WDW is reading this post, please have someone that actually "finalizes" and "physically" makes signs, chain lines, white boxes on how the bus line and bus loading changes include a person or persons that actually uses a wheelchair in various transportation change.

Woudn't this be a cost saving to WDW from having to make changes later.

These are just my opinions. 

I like mainstreaming lines for myself.

I don't like wheelchair dependent, ventilator dependent owners to worry about if they will not be able to breath and possibly die if a portable life support ventilator becomes disconnected by a walker in a hurry to catch up with family/friends in a bus line a brushes up against them.

I don't like wheelchair dependent owners having to worry about their safety in crowded, dark lines.

I dislike having to guess of where I should enter a bus line because of changes and no signs of instruction of what to do.

I dislike having to think that other guests are thinking that I am breaking in line while doing what I have been told to do, but they don't know. It should would help with a simple sign of instruction for the wheelchair/scooter person to know what to do and to visible explain to the uninformed walker why.

I dislike the inconsistancy of the way the bus stops are step up next to each other at the various parks/resorts in regards to there entrance for walkers, in regards to there lack of signs of instuction.

O.K....I have had to much coffee at work this weekend and I am obviously a little overstressed.

I apologize in advance if I have offended by any of my words.


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## SueM in MN

A lot of good points, Ray.

For us, we mostly stay at OKW, which tends not to have the busiest bus stops. For getting on at the parks, we also usually try to schedule our trips to avoid the busiest times and if we see that there are so many people already waiting that the bus will be full, we usually wait away from the bus stop until that bus loads.

Now, if they make all the bus stops Mainstream, we won't be able to do that because by waiting away from the line, another 50 people might join the line while we are waiting outside of the line.

I agree they need to make things clear so people know what to do. We have already waited in the Mainstream Line and while we were waiting, 2 other guests with wheelchairs/ECVs drove up and parked where the back door of the bus would be. So, we didn't get onto the bus, but they did.

The other problem I see is that when we have waited at the place where the wheelchair would board (so, not in the Mainstream Line) there are many times when there is a whole line of people waiting. We board first and ALL those people get on and get seats. If we were waiting in the line and had to wait to board until we got to the front of the line, we would not be able to board because the bus would be too crowded.
That's not equal treatment because the people walking on are able to board when we would fit, but can't board because there is room to park, but not enough room to manouver into space and do a safe tiedown.

As has already been reported on several other threads, people with ECVs and wheelchairs are ending up waiting thru MANY buses when all the people who came behind them were loaded and gone. The Mainstream lines may sound fair, but are not working.


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## toocherie

I just returned from 10 days at WDW and have to admit I was apprehensive about scooter use given the posts I had seen here prior to leaving for Florida, but am happy to report that we encountered no major issues.  We were staying at the Treehouse Villas--which meant we had to take two busses--one to Saratoga Springs (most times the bus was empty either direction) and one from/to SSR from/to the park of the day.  We avoided busy times too (except leaving Epcot at closing one night) and rarely had to wait for a second bus.  Most times I was the only scooter/wheelchair user on board.  

I rented a Victory from Buena Vista and had no issues getting on or off a bus (I'll leave my boat experiences for another thread other than to note that WDW has changed the rules--for the better--about the DTD to resort boats and you pull straight in  and back out instead of having to maneuver around the corner--thanks!)  With a couple of exceptions the drivers were all great--although I do find the approaches to be varied among drivers--some leave it all to you (luckily I'm pretty good at parallel parking a scooter), some give verbal instructions, some choose to guide you in handling the tiller themselves and some prefer you to get off and they manually manuever it after taking it out of gear.  I do agree with Ray's experience that it is hard to get off if you are the second device in and in the front--I usually do a three point turn to get down the ramp and can't do that if there is another device in the back position.  Most of the drivers were extremely nice and were always saying--"take all the time you need"--even if the bus was full and we were at the first SSR stop with a lot of tired sleepy people who wanted to get back to their villas.

I also wish there were better instructions at the stops about where wheelchair/scooter users are supposed to wait--I chose to enter the mainstream lines out of an abundance of caution twice--once at Hollywood Studios--and a CM came and brought me out of line and parked me out front so the bus driver could see me.  I told her I thought we were supposed to get in the mainstream line and she was surprised and wanted to know how I knew thought--"well, the Disabilities board on Disboards" I replied.  She thanked me for being considerate--but obviously has also been given the company line that it wasn't fair for wheelchair/scooter users to otherwise be loaded first because they could come up at the last minute and get in front of someone who had been waiting.  (We were second in line when she removed me to the front.)

At the aforementioned Epcot closing I also mainstreamed--and as it happened the bus would have been full whether we were walking or not--so we waited for the next bus and the driver loaded us first as usual.

I also wanted to say that I usually make a practice of talking to people around me in line -- just my way of being friendly and hoping that they won't be as annoyed as they might otherwise be since I am a "known" person rather than the lady on a scooter (who they don't know has several medical issues making it difficult to walk long distances).

We did have one negative incident which luckily I didn't witness (or I might be in jail right now).  Another friend of ours (also a scooter user--she has a herniated disc from a fall as an OR nurse several years ago--and also overweight) who joined up with us one day.  I wasn't in the park yet because I had work to do back at the villa (dern clients!).  Anyway, walking traffic stopped in front of her and my other friend (who was walking in front of the scooter), so she stopped after our walking friend stopped and a man not paying attention walked into her, fell and when he pushed her caused her to hit her tiller which caused her to run into our friend's leg (owwieee!)  Ok, accidents happen, but instead of apologizing for what he did, he screamed"  "I am so sick of fat women on scooters in the parks!"  Luckily for him I wasn't there and our walking friend was too busy rubbing her leg to hear him because he DID NOT want to tangle with us.  

Anyway, to sum up, no major issues from our trip and I am also glad that Disney provides accommodations for mobility device users.


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## CurlyJo224

toocherie said:


> We did have one negative incident which luckily I didn't witness (or I might be in jail right now).  Another friend of ours (also a scooter user--she has a herniated disc from a fall as an OR nurse several years ago--and also overweight) who joined up with us one day.  I wasn't in the park yet because I had work to do back at the villa (dern clients!).  Anyway, walking traffic stopped in front of her and my other friend (who was walking in front of the scooter), so she stopped after our walking friend stopped and a man not paying attention walked into her, fell and when he pushed her caused her to hit her tiller which caused her to run into our friend's leg (owwieee!)  Ok, accidents happen, but instead of apologizing for what he did, he screamed"  "I am so sick of fat women on scooters in the parks!"  Luckily for him I wasn't there and our walking friend was too busy rubbing her leg to hear him because he DID NOT want to tangle with us.



We took my MIL two years ago, and she had to use an ECV. We rented the ones in the parks, but if we go with her again, we'll rent one for the week. I'm with you. If that had happened to my MIL, I or DH (or both) would probably be in jail.


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## kath2me

I have always used Apple Scooter, Alex there is just terrific, I get the same scooter I have at home the Go Fo Elite Traveler


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## ForAandA

Good morning!

Dh is finally able to come to Disney with me on my next trip! Last time he went with me was in January 2009.  We used the Dream scooter due to Dh's size.  

Can anyone recommend an ECV for "Pooh" sized guests?  Dh is about 350, and 6 foot 3.

Thank you in advance!


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## fireplug46

Cheshire Figment said:


> I checked the specifications of my ECV, the Pride Celebrity-X, which is the "standard size" ECV used by many of the off-site vendors.  It is 24 x 46, so it will fit into the size box with no problems.
> 
> And to add a comment, the ECV has to fit in the painted box with the front wheel(s) straight ahead.  The Dream is of such size that the wheel has to be turned 90 degrees for it to fit.



when I called the operations office she told me if you can get it inside that box no matter if you had to turn the wheel it would be loaded and it is not 60 inches long when the bus would get to the bus stop I would have the scooter inside the box so he would see it would fit


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## fireplug46

Cheshire Figment said:


> I checked the specifications of my ECV, the Pride Celebrity-X, which is the "standard size" ECV used by many of the off-site vendors.  It is 24 x 46, so it will fit into the size box with no problems.
> 
> And to add a comment, the ECV has to fit in the painted box with the front wheel(s) straight ahead.  The Dream is of such size that the wheel has to be turned 90 degrees for it to fit.


In may 2011 I visited Disney I had rented a Dream scooter and at first I had some problems with some of the bus drivers about loading the dream scooter I had one driver at Downtown Disney call his manager when He came over to the bus stop He looked at the scooter and asked will it fit I told him that it would He then asked if I could back it on again I said yes after I got it loaded He said if I had any more problems to call him and He gave me his business card when I called the operations office she told me if you can get it inside that box no matter if you had to turn the wheel it would be loaded and it is not 60 inches long  it has about 2 inches on each side when the bus would get to the bus stop I would have the scooter inside the box so he would see it would fit.after that I had no more problems.


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## fireplug46

lovetoscrap said:


> I find it very interesting that the company that rents the Dream is specifically advertising it (as of right now) as "Fits on All Buses", "Fits on Disney Transportation" and "is specifically for . . . visitors staying in hotels on-property at Walt Disney World or Universal Studios Florida who plan to use resort-provided bus, boat or monorail transportation . . .  "  and features a video on how to load it onto a Disney bus (a lift bus no less!)
> 
> This is only going to make it harder for the Disney bus drivers as people argue that they were specifically told it fits on the buses.  I know that I would be frustrated if I rented it and then was being denied entry on the buses.  Ultimately my anger would be directed at the rental company as I demanded a refund, but of course at the time of trying to board the bus I will admit that I would probably get cranky with the driver telling me no.  And if the policy is not being consistently applied that will make things even worse for the drivers that are doing what they are supposed to.



The Dream scooters WILL fit on all Disney buses just tell the driver to call operations on the radio and they will set them straight. I loaded one on two lift buses during my last stay in may/june


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## mgaringer

The 48 inches long by 30 inches wide should not be difficult to stay within.
I am a large person that weights 385 lbs so I need a heavy duty scooter. I rent a PRIDE MAXAMA from Buena Vista Scooter Rentals. According to the PRIDE brochure even this large heavy duty scooter is only 46.5 inches long by 28 inches wide. In 2009 I never had anyone tell me that I couldn't ride a bus or go anywhere.
Mike


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## KPeveler

mgaringer said:


> The 48 inches long by 30 inches wide should not be difficult to stay within.
> I am a large person that weights 385 lbs so I need a heavy duty scooter. I rent a PRIDE MAXAMA from Buena Vista Scooter Rentals. According to the PRIDE brochure even this large heavy duty scooter is only 46.5 inches long by 28 inches wide. In 2009 I never had anyone tell me that I couldn't ride a bus or go anywhere.
> Mike



Correct - As of this time, only the Dream Scooter does not fit on the bus.  Pretty much all commercially available scooters, including all Pride models, fit at this time.


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## SueM in MN

fireplug46 said:


> The Dream scooters WILL fit on all Disney buses just tell the driver to call operations on the radio and they will set them straight. *I loaded one on two lift buses during my last stay in may/june*


The bolded information is not correct.

*A spokesperson for the company that rents the Dream wrote a PM to me about the buses. I added the information into the disABILITIES FAQs thread in the bus information.
He said that they have discussed with the WDW Transportation Department and has been told that the Dream scooter can not be used on the buses with lifts. The spokesperson from the rental company said the Dream will be allowed on the buses with ramps as long as it fits into box with the front tire turned.*

His PM said that people renting the Dream Scooter are told not to get on to a bus with a lift, but to ask the driver to call for a bus with a ramp. (Since you did not know this, it appears they did not inform you).

I do not have confirmation of this from WDW Transportation.

There are 3 reason for not allowing the Dream Scooter to use the lifts:

1) It is too heavy to safely use the lifts. They were designed for a device that weighs no more than 600 pounds - including the weight of the user.

2) It is too large for the lifts - The lifts were designed for devices that are no larger than 30 by 48. This is the total length, not the length with one wheel turned in; the lifts were not designed for a device that is longer.

3) I have been told by WDW bus drivers that loading the Dream scooters was putting excessive wear on and damaging the lifts. 
The video that was posted on the Dream Scooter site showing boarding a lift bus advised backing onto the lift until the scooter hit the back of the lift and then stopping and turning the front tire to fit on the platform. 
As far as I know, the company renting the Dream Scooters has pulled this video off of their website since they were told  the scooter should not be used on buses with lifts.


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## SenecaWolf

I know its been awhile since this topic has been visited but I just got my reservation confirmation from Scooter Vacations and they point out this: 



> To confirm, The Dream is for use only on-property at Walt Disney World or Universal Studios or your resort as it not a transportable model.  The Dream has met the FDA standards and has its 510(k) rating as an approved electronic convenience vehicle (ECV) falling under the strict ADA laws and guidelines. However, when using on property bus transportation there are a few things you should be aware of to ensure you will be most satisfied.
> 
> At Walt Disney World there are two types of buses, newer mid-ramp versions and older rear-lift models. Disney Transportation has asked that Dream guests use the mid-ramp bus.  Disney advises you contact the bus transport manager at your hotel as they will be pleased to assist you.  If you are unable to reach the hotel transportation manager or need further assistance you may contact the Disney Transportation Operations Center at 1 (407) 824-7092.



Hopefully this helps


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## dansamy

SenecaWolf said:


> I know its been awhile since this topic has been visited but I just got my reservation confirmation from Scooter Vacations and they point out this:
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully this helps



Is this still the case with the Dream scooter? It appears to be the most stable looking, comfortable scooter model and I was looking at renting one for our trip which starts 02/24.


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## KPeveler

dansamy said:


> Is this still the case with the Dream scooter? It appears to be the most stable looking, comfortable scooter model and I was looking at renting one for our trip which starts 02/24.



As far as I know, yes, it does not fit on Disney buses.  It is larger than is defined as a "mobility device" by the ADA, and therefore is larger than the tie-down spots on Disney buses.  It cannot be tied down safely, even without a passenger, and would end up blocking part of the aisle or seats, thereby created a potential safety hazard to other guests.

It is also larger than almost any place created for an ECV or wheelchair.  You may find some queues rather tight, as it is longer than a "standard mobility device" (which is what the queues were built for), and therefore has a longer turning radius.  It may also be a tight squeeze to fit into any of the wheelchair spots in shows and theaters.  It will definitely be a difficult squeeze into some elevators.

Even if you did take it on a bus, you would have to be a VERY competent driver to handle something that large in the parks, i.e. driving and turning backwards to get into and out of elevators, etc.

There is no ride vehicle which can accommodate the Dream scooter, either.  All vehicles will require transfer.

It sits quite a bit higher than most mobility devices (as does my powerchair) and I can say from experience that the height makes it more difficult to see curb cuts and other obstacles on the ground.

I know I more than answered your question, but as this topic has been dormant for a while, I wanted to refresh any other curious minds about why the DREAM scooter is not allowed on Disney buses.


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## dansamy

KPeveler said:


> As far as I know, yes, it does not fit on Disney buses.  It is larger than is defined as a "mobility device" by the ADA, and therefore is larger than the tie-down spots on Disney buses.  It cannot be tied down safely, even without a passenger, and would end up blocking part of the aisle or seats, thereby created a potential safety hazard to other guests.
> 
> It is also larger than almost any place created for an ECV or wheelchair.  You may find some queues rather tight, as it is longer than a "standard mobility device" (which is what the queues were built for), and therefore has a longer turning radius.  It may also be a tight squeeze to fit into any of the wheelchair spots in shows and theaters.  It will definitely be a difficult squeeze into some elevators.
> 
> Even if you did take it on a bus, you would have to be a VERY competent driver to handle something that large in the parks, i.e. driving and turning backwards to get into and out of elevators, etc.
> 
> There is no ride vehicle which can accommodate the Dream scooter, either.  All vehicles will require transfer.
> 
> It sits quite a bit higher than most mobility devices (as does my powerchair) and I can say from experience that the height makes it more difficult to see curb cuts and other obstacles on the ground.
> 
> I know I more than answered your question, but as this topic has been dormant for a while, I wanted to refresh any other curious minds about why the DREAM scooter is not allowed on Disney buses.



So, it's still allowed on the ramp-style bus, but not the lift-type? And this would be our first time needing an assistive device. My DH had a stroke in Jan. He has very poor balance and some residual weakness and neuropathy. He's currently using a walker at home and is off work while doing PT to regain strength and endurance. He's an airplane mechanic and usually walked 8-10 miles per day. This has been a very difficult adjustment for him. I just want him to be able to enjoy the parks without too much additional stress regarding his lack of mobility. I want him to be comfortable and not feel like he's missing out due to limited visibility from a low seated position.


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## KPeveler

dansamy said:


> So, it's still allowed on the ramp-style bus, but not the lift-type? And this would be our first time needing an assistive device. My DH had a stroke in Jan. He has very poor balance and some residual weakness and neuropathy. He's currently using a walker at home and is off work while doing PT to regain strength and endurance. He's an airplane mechanic and usually walked 8-10 miles per day. This has been a very difficult adjustment for him. I just want him to be able to enjoy the parks without too much additional stress regarding his lack of mobility. I want him to be comfortable and not feel like he's missing out due to limited visibility from a low seated position.



No, they are not allowed on any bus, as they do not fit into the tie-down area.  Some people have reported they were allowed on some buses, but the policy is that Dream scooters are not allowed on any bus.  You may encounter difficulties if you rent this scooter.

I understand the difficulties of suddenly being thrust into the world of disabilities.  I am only 28, and I have only had a chair for 3 years (though I used one at Disney before that).  It is not an easy process, and I wish you both all the best of luck with the recovery process.

I understand wanting the higher vantage point, but if he is not used to driving a scooter, he may find this one a little hard to handle.  In fact, that is something one person posted - that it was great for experienced users, but beginners may find it difficult to drive.

I also wanted to note that driving a scooter is incredibly tiring.  You need VERY fast reflexes, good peripheral vision in both eyes, and good stamina, both in terms of hand strength and mental stamina to look out for people.  He may want to practice using a scooter at home before going to Disney.

You may also be able to rent one at home, or even have insurance buy one for him to aid him in places other than Disney.  That way it would be the right model for him, and he would help regain his independence at home as well as on vacation.  Just something you may want to consider looking in to.

Check out some of the other posts on this board, and feel free to create your own post asking for tips and advice - its amazing the wealth of knowledge here, and I am sure there have been others on this board with a similar experience to your.  I hope you have a wonderful trip and wish you all the best.


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## dansamy

KPeveler said:


> No, they are not allowed on any bus, as they do not fit into the tie-down area.  Some people have reported they were allowed on some buses, but the policy is that Dream scooters are not allowed on any bus.  You may encounter difficulties if you rent this scooter.
> 
> I understand the difficulties of suddenly being thrust into the world of disabilities.  I am only 28, and I have only had a chair for 3 years (though I used one at Disney before that).  It is not an easy process, and I wish you both all the best of luck with the recovery process.
> 
> I understand wanting the higher vantage point, but if he is not used to driving a scooter, he may find this one a little hard to handle.  In fact, that is something one person posted - that it was great for experienced users, but beginners may find it difficult to drive.
> 
> I also wanted to note that driving a scooter is incredibly tiring.  You need VERY fast reflexes, good peripheral vision in both eyes, and good stamina, both in terms of hand strength and mental stamina to look out for people.  He may want to practice using a scooter at home before going to Disney.
> 
> You may also be able to rent one at home, or even have insurance buy one for him to aid him in places other than Disney.  That way it would be the right model for him, and he would help regain his independence at home as well as on vacation.  Just something you may want to consider looking in to.
> 
> Check out some of the other posts on this board, and feel free to create your own post asking for tips and advice - its amazing the wealth of knowledge here, and I am sure there have been others on this board with a similar experience to your.  I hope you have a wonderful trip and wish you all the best.



Ok. I think I'll call them and change to another model. I don't want to risk being denied bus transport. We'll be at AKL and so we'll be bussing everywhere. If we were at BLT, I'd be fine just monorailing to MK and EPCOT.

Re: insurance and buying (or renting) one for at home - At this point, he's very early in the recovery and until we know what residual deficits will be permanent, insurance has provided him with a walker, shower chair and PT. If he's unable to regain a good sense of balance or any significant endurance/stamina or motor control, then I suppose we, our MD and the insurance company will have to look at what coverages we have and what's appropriate. They won't consider any of his deficits permanent until 3-6 months post-stroke and post-PT.

Right now, at home, he "cruises" the furniture inside our home and I haven't had to take him to the store with me, so he hasn't needed to use one of theirs. He uses the walker when we go to our homeschool group, Scout meetings, etc. His daily walking is less than 250ft right now. He simply doesn't have any stamina or endurance to do more than that. Grocery shopping is absolutely out of the question. Certainly, 10 miles a day for his job (or WDW) is impossible. 

I had taken some time off for our anniversary and since he's out anyway and we had points, WTH - we'll go to WDW for a couple days. We've been numerous times. We've ridden all the "must-see" rides numerous times. We're ok with a slower-paced trip. It's a bit impromptu anyway.


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## KPeveler

dansamy said:


> Ok. I think I'll call them and change to another model. I don't want to risk being denied bus transport. We'll be at AKL and so we'll be bussing everywhere.
> 
> Re: insurance and buying (or renting) one for at home - At this point, he's very early in the recovery and until we know what residual deficits will be permanent, insurance has provided him with a walker, shower chair and PT. If he's unable to regain a good sense of balance or any significant endurance/stamina or motor control, then I suppose we, our MD and the insurance company will have to look at what coverages we have and what's appropriate. They won't consider any of his deficits permanent until 3-6 months post-stroke and post-PT.



 I would definitely have him try and practice with the scooters in malls or supermarkets and Target/Walmart before you go.  An ECV may be perfect for him, but he would need to transfer out to almost every ride, which he may find difficult from some scooters.  Some scooters, I am not sure what models, have a chair that swivels to the side.  This may be especially helpful for transferring.  I would ask in an independent thread about things like that - there may be other people who have experiences with strokes and scooters and have good ideas.

He will need to be able to control the scooter safely in a crowded environment, so I would suggest he practice in Target or someplace like it before he gets there.  This will give him a better idea of how hard it is going to be, and what he may be looking for in a scooter.

Something else to note is that scooters, unlike powerchairs, so not have lap belts and the arms are really not meant to keep a person "in."  If his balance is such that he may fall from the scooter seat, you may want to consider renting a wheelchair, which will have more substantial sides.


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## dansamy

KPeveler said:


> I would definitely have him try and practice with the scooters in malls or supermarkets and Target/Walmart before you go.  An ECV may be perfect for him, but he would need to transfer out to almost every ride, which he may find difficult from some scooters.  Some scooters, I am not sure what models, have a chair that swivels to the side.  This may be especially helpful for transferring.  I would ask in an independent thread about things like that - there may be other people who have experiences with strokes and scooters and have good ideas.
> 
> He will need to be able to control the scooter safely in a crowded environment, so I would suggest he practice in Target or someplace like it before he gets there.  This will give him a better idea of how hard it is going to be, and what he may be looking for in a scooter.
> 
> Something else to note is that scooters, unlike powerchairs, so not have lap belts and the arms are really not meant to keep a person "in."  If his balance is such that he may fall from the scooter seat, you may want to consider renting a wheelchair, which will have more substantial sides.



Sorry, I was editing while you were posting!

His sitting balance is good. Transferring sometimes requires assistance to stand. Sometimes not. At this point, his primary deficit is his lack of strength and motor control of his left leg and balance on that left leg. While in the hospital, he had a pretty significant loss of muscle tissue and even had foot drop on that left side. He's definitely got a ways to go... 

And he's not even 39 yet. In high school superlatives, he was voted "Most Likely to End Up In A Body Cast".


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## KPeveler

dansamy said:


> Sorry, I was editing while you were posting!
> 
> His sitting balance is good. Transferring sometimes requires assistance to stand. Sometimes not. At this point, his primary deficit is his lack of strength and motor control of his left leg and balance on that left leg. While in the hospital, he had a pretty significant loss of muscle tissue and even had foot drop on that left side. He's definitely got a ways to go...



The first time I ever used a scooter, I went full tilt into a movie rack in Target. First time I ever used a powerchair (which I do NOT suggest for your husband), I ran into the wall of a bathroom stall, and left a sizable dent.

I heartily suggest, as someone who has been there before, that he try out a scooter at target, just to get the hang of it before getting to the parks.  If he feels like he is holding up the family while trying to tour, or makes mistakes and gets embarrassed, it will make the trip both more difficult and less pleasant.  We all know that men make the best patients, but perhaps giving him a headstart in this area would not be a bad thing.

Also, the scooters you rent in the area will be smaller and easier to turn than the ones in Target, so if he can get used to one of those once or twice, he will have far fewer problems in Florida.


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## Cheshire Figment

A side comment is that the Dream Scooter is designed for people over 400 pounds.  A standard ECV will go up to 350 or 400, depending on the model, and most of the transport (lightweight) have an upper limit of 200 or 250 pounds.


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## SueM in MN

The company that rents the Dream Scooter still lists it on their website as being acceptable for buses - but, as was pointed out already, it is larger than the spaces allowed for scooters or wheelchairs under the ADA.
The last time I had contact with someone from that company was when I wrote the post about them not being allowed on the buses with lifts. They do weigh more than the average heavy duty scooter and some bus drivers have told me that the Dream scooter with rider exceed the safe weight limit for some of the ramps. So, there may be some buses it is allowed on and others not.
The reason I have been given by bus drivers for not allowing them on buses with lifts is that they are too long and too heavy and were damaging the lifts.

Because it is both significantly longer and significantly wider than most ECVs and wheelchairs, I would suggest not considering it for someone unless they have a great deal of experience driving a scooter. 
Most first time users already have a difficult time driving the scooter in the queues, which are mostly around 36 inches wide. Adding a scooter that is not that much narrower than the queue makes it even more of a challenge.


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## Windjammermay

Has the bus boarding changed. I am in a Q6000z. Do we still load first and off last. ANd are we suppose to wait in the lines at the park with the rest of the people to load onto the bus.


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## KPeveler

You will have no problems getting a 6000z onto the bus, unless you have specialty equipment that makes it super long (I am thinking permanently elevated leg rests or something, not something small like a vent).

The changes in boarding only applies to devices that are longer than the ADA prescribes.  I know your chair is fine as I have the Quantum 600 and our chairs are roughly the same size.

As to who boards first - that depends entirely on which line you are talking about.  I have heard some resorts have created wheelchair accessible lines which you wait in until a certain point.  I am not sure which places still use these.  Also, I think some of the lines require you to be able to manipulate a gate on your own (to exit the line to wait where wheelchairs do), so if you are traveling alone, this may be a concern. Hopefully others can chime in on this one, since I haven't been to WDW since the changes.

When your bus pulls up, whether you waited in a line before that or not, you should board first, for safety reasons.  You will exit last.  Wheelchairs board in the center door of the buses, while walkies board in the front door.  Depending on the size and make up of your party, they may board with you in the center door or go through the front door.  Most buses are newer ramp buses, which are SO much easier.  Some of the older buses are lift buses.

Hope this helps some.  I am not sure about exactly how the line thing is working now, so hopefully others here have some more answers.


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## Windjammermay

This will be my 5th year going to DWD. Last year I was at the Magic Kindom and it was late so you know the lines were long. I was told to stay in the line with the rest of the people and not use the HP boarding line. 

They told me that we are to use the regualar line to board. I had my own chair with me. I just wondered if they had a new way of boarding. Use in chairs to wait in the line or go to the HP line like before. 

I must say that my Q6000z is a perfect fit for every thing. I had no problems with the rides or transprotation. The big coaches gave me a little trouble. I just had to manuver more to get on.


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## kimsuenew

Thank you for such an informative thread!


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## MikeS.

Any changes on this in the last 16 months?


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## msr709

We are traveling in July 2015 and I'll be in need of a sun shade for the scooter for medical reasons. So does how does this affect getting on the buses? We have to use the Disney transportation, not renting a car. I've used the scooters before but never with a sunshade, but my new medication makes me have a terrible reaction to the sun. Any suggestions or comments that would be helpful would be appreciated.


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## SueM in MN

msr709 said:


> We are traveling in July 2015 and I'll be in need of a sun shade for the scooter for medical reasons. So does how does this affect getting on the buses? We have to use the Disney transportation, not renting a car. I've used the scooters before but never with a sunshade, but my new medication makes me have a terrible reaction to the sun. Any suggestions or comments that would be helpful would be appreciated.


Have you used the buses before? 
Used the buses before with an ECV?
I'm not sure if you have general questions about using the buses with an ECV, using the buses in general or using them with a sunshade.

The people I have seen with sunshades remove them to actually get on the bus. The sunshades do cause some blind spots and since you have to manouver around, it's just easier with it off.

Also, important to be aware that the sunshades don't give 100% coverage from the sun. When the sun is directly above, you will have pretty good protection. But, at other times, you will have varying protection.
So, you should discuss with your doctor whether sunblock or high SPF sunscreen will help.
There is also clothing with sun protection built in. These are a few of the popular brands, but you can actually find sun protection clothing in most Sporting Goods stores now.

http://www.coolibar.com/home.jsp
http://www.sunprecautions.com
http://www.patagonia.com/us/patagonia.go?assetid=47958
http://www.solartex.com

And, a general article about sun protective clothing
http://www.skincancer.org/prevention/sun-protection/clothing


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## msr709

SueM in MN said:


> Have you used the buses before?
> Used the buses before with an ECV?...
> http://www.skincancer.org/prevention/sun-protection/clothing


This reply has been VERY helpful. I did not know about the sun-protection clothing. Never had this condition before so I never looked it up.
So thank you for your reply and the info on the clothing. I'm looking into that right now.


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## mrsmarilyn

The sun protection clothing is quite good. My husband is at risk for skin cancer, so he uses it when we go very sunny places.


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## mizliz

I don't know if this is the correct place to ask, but: Are the shuttle busses from the Downtown Disney Area Hotels scooter accessible? We're staying at the B Resort for the first time next week, and I'll have an ECV. 

Thanks!


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## msr709

When I stayed there in 2002 they were not. They were the type of buses that commuters use where you step up and are kind of high, as opposed to the Disney operated buses which are low and accessible. But I haven't been there since. We had stayed at the Grosvenor which is now the Royal, I believe.  But, if you go to the Downtown Disney itself you will be able to find the Disney operated buses that go everywhere and that are accessible. Hopefully someone who has stayed recently will be able to better inform you.


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## lanejudy

I haven't stayed at any of those resorts, but the reports I've read have been hit-or-miss with regards to accessible buses.  Since transportation is provided for guests, they must provide an option for you.  I suggest asking at the front desk if there are certain times/shuttles so they will know you need accessible transportation.

Enjoy your vacation!


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## goofygal37

Is there another way to get to Animal Kingdom besides on the bus, if my scooter does not fit?


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## lanejudy

goofygal37 said:


> Is there another way to get to Animal Kingdom besides on the bus, if my scooter does not fit?



You could call for an accessible taxi; I don't know if those have size limitations, either, so you'd need to ask.  The size limits on WDW buses is based on the ADA standard.  Do you have your own personal scooter or are you renting?  Could you consider using a different model that fits the standard footprint?

Enjoy your vacation!


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## goofygal37

I am renting from Yellow Scooter Orlando. I will check the dimensions.


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## KPeveler

I just looked at their website, and all the wheelchairs and scooters on their websites are within size limits.  In general, all major brands of scooters are within the size limits.   Only a few select models are larger, and I am only aware of one for rent in the Orlando area, as mentioned above.


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## goofygal37

Okay great thanks. I really appreciate your help!


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