# at what point is it false advertising? UPDATE: Owner threatening to sue me.



## connorlevismom

We are staying in a home in Windsor hills and it was a home we picked based on space and ammenities. When we arrived  we noticed three things. In the pictures there was a grill and when we got here there was no grill. It advertised a PS3 and there was not one to be found. It said there was an XBOX 360 and there was-but no games. I contacted the owner about it and she said that the grill was gross so they removed it. The xbox had games but someone stole them and they decided not to replace them. She did not mention the PS3 but I assume the same thing happened to it and they did not buy a new one.

I kind of feel like this is false advertising sine we wanted this place especially because of the two gaming systems. What do you think and would you ask for money back?


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## OrangeCountyCommuter

Yes, I would ask a refund. If they don't want to pay to replace the things they advertise they need to quit advertising!


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## loveysbydesign

We have rented at Windsor Hills and Indian Creek many times and if that happened to us I would complain and ask for a partial refund.


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## connorlevismom

It really has been a hummed. We wanted the two gaming systems because our 8 year old son and my nephew who is 16 would want to play it. We also bought meat to grill but there is no grill!

How much of a refund would you ask for? The week is costing us $1600.


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## connorlevismom

connorlevismom said:


> It really has been a hummed. We wanted the two gaming systems because our 8 year old son and my nephew who is 16 would want to play it. We also bought meat to grill but there is no grill!
> 
> How much of a refund would you ask for? The week is costing us $1600.



I meant it has been a bummer. Dang auto-correct!


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## robinb

Yes, I would ask for some money back. They advertised the unit with certain amenities which are not there or not usable.


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## softballmom3

I, too, would ask for some type of partial refund.  I would explain how you were mislead and com right out and ask.  I believe if they were going to offer it voluntarily they would have done so when you questioned the advertised items being gone.....


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## spiceycat

agree - they need to change what they are advertising - and give you some money back.

sorry this happened to you


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## robinb

OP, did you ask?  I would ask for a minimum of 10%.


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## JANNYANS

Did you mention to the owner that you had specifically booked their home because of these items? If so and they knew they were not there before your arrival  then yes ask for a partial refund.   

It can be difficult for an owner to sometimes keep up with things that go missing in their homes -their cleaners may not be the same ones every time and may not know what should or shouldn't be there so they won't report items missing which means the owner can't replace them .


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## TinaElmerRh

Can't help with the gaming systems missing, but we rented a place for December and we paid $60.00 to rent a grill for the week. I know it will be an extra expense for you, but maybe someone there will know where you can rent one for the week.  The owner of the villa made the arrangements for us.  If the owner advertised a grill there should of been one there, she could of made arrangements to rent one until she purchased a new one.


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## connorlevismom

robinb said:


> OP, did you ask?  I would ask for a minimum of 10%.



I have not asked yet, I will be doing so tomorrow.



JANNYANS said:


> Did you mention to the owner that you had specifically booked their home because of these items? If so and they knew they were not there before your arrival  then yes ask for a partial refund.
> 
> It can be difficult for an owner to sometimes keep up with things that go missing in their homes -their cleaners may not be the same ones every time and may not know what should or shouldn't be there so they won't report items missing which means the owner can't replace them .



The owners were here just last week. I know this because the because she told me in one of her emails. We did find the PS3, but it also had no games and when I asked her about those, she told me those were stolen too and they were not going to replace them. She told me I could rent games from the clubhouse. We called the clubhouse to inqure about this and they said they did not have games for rent. Plus, I should not have to pay to rent games!


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## connorlevismom

Just wanted to give a quick update. I emailed the owner asking for a 15% refund. I have yet to hear back from her, so I am assuming that she is not going to give me one. What now, besides writing reviews everywhere I can, can I do about this? Should I just drop it?

I found her initial quote to me that actually listed the BBQ use as part of our charge to use to house, so in the least, they should refund us something because of that. You cannot tell someone that your fee is this and includes use of a BBQ for the week and then tell them that they got rid of it because it was dirty and your not going to replace it. I wish I would have found the original quote while I was there because I would have told her that she needed to rent one for the week for our use because you charged us for that.


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## robinb

connorlevismom said:


> Just wanted to give a quick update. I emailed the owner asking for a 15% refund. I have yet to hear back from her, so I am assuming that she is not going to give me one. What now, besides writing reviews everywhere I can, can I do about this? Should I just drop it?
> 
> I found her initial quote to me that actually listed the BBQ use as part of our charge to use to house, so in the least, they should refund us something because of that. You cannot tell someone that your fee is this and includes use of a BBQ for the week and then tell them that they got rid of it because it was dirty and your not going to replace it. I wish I would have found the original quote while I was there because I would have told her that she needed to rent one for the week for our use because you charged us for that.


Did you mention in your email that the BBQ was included in the contact?  I would send them one more email with a copy of your contract and give the owner a specific time frame to get back to you.  Maybe a week?  I would also tell them if they don't get back to you, you'll have to give them a negative review.  There is no reason not to tell them what the consequences are if they continue to ignore you.


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## jensen

connorlevismom said:


> The owners were here just last week. I know this because the because she told me in one of her emails. We did find the PS3, but it also had no games and when I asked her about those, she told me those were stolen too and they were not going to replace them. She told me I could rent games from the clubhouse. We called the clubhouse to inqure about this and they said they did not have games for rent. Plus, I should not have to pay to rent games!


 
Did the listing say that games were included? I wouldn't have expected them to provide games. I'm sure there is a redbox or other cheap game rental place nearby that you can pick some up if you didn't bring any from home.

I agree it's unfortunate that they didn't replace the grill. But, I think a $240 refund is high. Maybe $50-$100. Isn't there a stove in the kitchen that you can cook your meat on?


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## connorlevismom

jensen said:


> Did the listing say that games were included? I wouldn't have expected them to provide games. I'm sure there is a redbox or other cheap game rental place nearby that you can pick some up if you didn't bring any from home.
> 
> I agree it's unfortunate that they didn't replace the grill. But, I think a $240 refund is high. Maybe $50-$100. Isn't there a stove in the kitchen that you can cook your meat on?



I would assume that if a game system is in the home, it has games. We rented 3 other homes and they all had game systems with games. If there are not games, it should be listed on the website and I would not have rented from them because I should not have to pay to rent games.


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## robinb

jensen said:


> Did the listing say that games were included? I wouldn't have expected them to provide games. I'm sure there is a redbox or other cheap game rental place nearby that you can pick some up if you didn't bring any from home.
> 
> I agree it's unfortunate that they didn't replace the grill. But, I think a $240 refund is high. Maybe $50-$100. Isn't there a stove in the kitchen that you can cook your meat on?


I also think that $240 is too high, but it is a good place to start negotiations and settle for $100-$150.


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## connorlevismom

Here is my response from the owner.

_The BBQ was an included extra, not charged for separately, and it was removed as it was old and unusable.

The games were removed by a previous guest over which I have no control. These also would have been a free inclusion had they not been stolen.

I'm not sure why you are telling me about another mgmt co and how quickly they responded to an issue such as pool heat not being switched on which would have been charged for as an extra and therefore needed immediate attention plus turning on given it can take up to 48 hrs for a pool to heat properly and should have been on for the morning of your arrival.

I am still not happy that hair & nail clippings were found in the master bath as I am 100% certain they were not there when we left + I had laundered the mats and anything undesirable would have washed out, but I am just glad there were no bugs, contrary to your initial report.

As far as we are concerned there is no refund as there is no reason for one. Had you paid for a BBQ and it had not been provided then I would refund the amount paid, same with the games. The cleaner came out on Monday morning to deal with the bathroom, that was the earliest she could come out._

I am just going to write her back and tell her that is fine, but expect to see negative reports from me about her home. She pretty much called me a liar (as there WERE bugs, but they were so gross that I spent an hour cleaning the house before I got fed up). We checked in on Saturday and I had to wai until MONDAY for someone to come out and clean. And they did not really clean. They came in with a broom and sweeped the bathroom floor and that was it. And don't tell me that you laundered the mats in the bathroom and you are 100% certain that there was no hair on them. I KNOW what pubic hair looks like and it was all over those rugs!


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## lost*in*cyberspace

Sounds as if you have rented from a bad owner.  If there are any online sites where you can review this property, I would be leaving some bad reviews.  This woman really needs to work on her people skills.


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## connorlevismom

lost*in*cyberspace said:


> Sounds as if you have rented from a bad owner.  If there are any online sites where you can review this property, I would be leaving some bad reviews.  This woman really needs to work on her people skills.



Yes - they advertise on a lot of sites and I will be leaving negative reviews. In my quote from her it listed the price and that the price included tax/wifi/phone calls and use of a BBQ. I will that no matter if I paid extra for it or not, you quote that it would be there and it was not.


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## connorlevismom

GET THIS! She threatened to SUE ME if I write a bad review. Here is her threat: _Should I find any negative comments anywhere re our house from you or anyone associated with you I will put it straight into the hands of our US business attorney as this is called liable in the UK and is completely unfounded._


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## robinb

connorlevismom said:


> GET THIS! She threatened to SUE ME if I write a bad review. Here is her threat: _Should I find any negative comments anywhere re our house from you or anyone associated with you I will put it straight into the hands of our US business attorney as this is called liable in the UK and is completely unfounded._


Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha ... what a card !  Tell her that her rental home is in the US and we have this whole "freedom of speech" thing here.  Heck, I would be tempted to include her threat in the review if I could do it and not look crazy myself.


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## Gr8t Fan

connorlevismom said:


> GET THIS! She threatened to SUE ME if I write a bad review. Here is her threat: _Should I find any negative comments anywhere re our house from you or anyone associated with you I will put it straight into the hands of our US business attorney as this is called liable in the UK and is completely unfounded._



It's "libel" not "liable" and I wouldn't let her scare you away.  Just wondering, is she still advertising the use of a BBQ grill?


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## Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina

Did you happen to take any photos of the issues you encountered?  (hair, nail clippings, bugs, etc.).

Because I'm kind of nitpicky when it comes to spelling and grammar (despite what my occasional typos would suggest ), I would also mention to her that the legal term she is trying to cite is LIBEL, not LIABLE, which have totally different meanings  .  

http://www.cyberlibel.com/libel.html


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## connorlevismom

robinb said:


> Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha ... what a card !  Tell her that her rental home is in the US and we have this whole "freedom of speech" thing here.  Heck, I would be tempted to include her threat in the review if I could do it and not look crazy myself.



That is pretty much what I said. I told her that I have every right to post my experience and that is is called freedom of speech here in the USA. That I intend to write the truth of our experience and that is a right.



Gr8t Fan said:


> It's "libel" not "liable" and I wouldn't let her scare you away.  Just wondering, is she still advertising the use of a BBQ grill?



The BBQ is in pictures on the website and also in her quote that she gave me when I booked the home. 

I have copies of all her emails back to me telling me pretty much, to bad for you. And copies of every page on her web page so she cannot go and change them and act like they were never there.

I have no intention of writing anything but the truth, but I DO NOT appreciate being threatened.


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## Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina

Gr8t Fan said:


> It's "libel" not "liable" and I wouldn't let her scare you away.  Just wondering, is she still advertising the use of a BBQ grill?



lol, must have been typing responses at the same time


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## robinb

Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina said:


> I would also mention to her that the legal term she is trying to cite is LIBEL, not LIABLE, which have totally different meanings  .


As in: "You are liable to be disappointed when your threat of libel is not taken seriously."


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## Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina

robinb said:


> As in: "You are liable to be disappointed when your threat of libel is not taken seriously."



Amen, sister!


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## Thumper_Man

Most states have some sort of Consumer Division you can file a complaint with.  Usually within the Attorney General's Office.  Since the house is in Florida, you may first want to contact the office over there.  

If the use of the grill, gaming systems and games were in the original contract, then it's a violation of the contract on her part.  You may be entitled to some sort of restitution this way, but it may be very little if any.  

Save any and all emails, and submit them along with your complaint.  Make them aware she is threatening to sue in retaliation of negative feedback.


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## jensen

robinb said:


> Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha ... what a card ! Tell her that her rental home is in the US and we have this whole "freedom of speech" thing here. Heck, I would be tempted to include her threat in the review if I could do it and not look crazy myself.


 
Freedom of speech does not preclude you from being sued for libel. If you post something online that you have no proof of, then you could be held liable for false statements.

So far, the only thing she's told us about that can be proven is that there was no grill. If she has photographs of bugs, nail clippings and hair, then she can be comfortable posting those. If not, then tread lightly...

If I were this renter, I'd drop this and move on.


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## connorlevismom

jensen said:


> Freedom of speech does not preclude you from being sued for libel. If you post something online that you have no proof of, then you could be held liable for false statements.
> 
> So far, the only thing she's told us about that can be proven is that there was no grill. If she has photographs of bugs, nail clippings and hair, then she can be comfortable posting those. If not, then tread lightly...
> 
> If I were this renter, I'd drop this and move on.



As a renter, I would want to know if the gaming systems had no games, and there was no grill and it was dirty. Why is I not OK to write this in a review? It is not like I am going to go all crazy talking about the owner, but if I were someone looking for a house, this would help me make a decision.

I don't think it is fair that you can threaten a renter to sue them if they post their experience. People who experience things (good or bad) should be able to write about them. In that same area - I could actually write that the owner threatened to sue me if I wrote a negative review, because I have written proof that she did.


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## jensen

connorlevismom said:


> As a renter, I would want to know if the gaming systems had no games, and there was no grill and it was dirty. Why is I not OK to write this in a review? It is not like I am going to go all crazy talking about the owner, but if I were someone looking for a house, this would help me make a decision.
> 
> I don't think it is fair that you can threaten a renter to sue them if they post their experience. People who experience things (good or bad) should be able to write about them.


 
Absolutely! I am a frequent reviewer on TripAdvisor and other forums. And if I have a bad experience, I'm not afraid to write about it.

But, the communication between you and the owner (that you've posted here) indicates that she believes you are making false claims in regard to the bugs, nail clippings and hair. So, if you are going to make specific claims about things like that, you might want to back them up with photographic proof.

A general statement about things not being as clean as you'd expect or up to your personal cleanliness standards would not be libel. It's all in how you present it.


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## connorlevismom

jensen said:


> Absolutely! I am a frequent reviewer on TripAdvisor and other forums. And if I have a bad experience, I'm not afraid to write about it.
> 
> But, the communication between you and the owner (that you've posted here) indicates that she believes you are making false claims in regard to the bugs, nail clippings and hair. So, if you are going to make specific claims about things like that, you might want to back them up with photographic proof.
> 
> A general statement about things not being as clean as you'd expect or up to your personal cleanliness standards would not be libel. It's all in how you present it.



I understand now what you were saying. I am more about writing about the missing grill and the games that are not there for the gaming systems. As a parent, I would want to know that if I was renting a home. I would not have booked the home if I saw this and all the other homes I was looking at did have games.


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## jensen

connorlevismom said:


> I understand now what you were saying. I am more about writing about the missing grill and the games that are not there for the gaming systems. As a parent, I would want to know that if I was renting a home. I would not have booked the home if I saw this and all the other homes I was looking at did have games.


 
I'll also say that as a person who relies heavily on travel review sites to make decisions, I very much appreciate negative reviews. In fact, I always sort the reviews so I can see the bad things that people are saying and don't always read the good reviews. I figure if I can live with the bad things, then I'll be happy with the good things.

That said, after you read a few bad reviews, you can always tell the ones who wrote out of real concern to share their experience and those who are just complainers.

Thank you for caring enough to share your experience and help others make their vacations magical!


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## "Cinder" Ella's Mom

It is a private owner?  Are they managed by a management company?  Perhaps you would like to give us the address of the property so we know to avoid it.  Why advertise that you have a game system if there are no games?  Ridiculous.


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## connorlevismom

[QUOTE="Cinder" Ella's Mom;46536775]It is a private owner?  Are they managed by a management company?  Perhaps you would like to give us the address of the property so we know to avoid it.  Why advertise that you have a game system if there are no games?  Ridiculous.[/QUOTE]

It is DSNYS Retreat in Windsor Hills. A 5 bedroom/5 bath home. I will do a review on the review board here as well so people who are not reading this thread can see it.

I had some reservations about this owner when I paid the final payment and she refused to give me my paperwork until 2 weeks prior to departure. I paid the final payment in July and we did not leave until October. I asked her several times for the paperwork proving that I had access to the home and all my documentation and was told no several times. That is when a red flag went up for me. Little did I know how absolutely rude she would be while dealing with her on issues. She also switched management compaines from the time I rented and the time of my arrival and changed her email address without ever informing me about it. Not a big deal to some, but I researched mgt. companies to know which ones had clean homes and she had Magical Vacation Homes as hers when I booked. Then it had been switched to someone I have never heard of.

I rented 3 other homes in WH at the exact same time and had no issues at all with these home owners.


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## "Cinder" Ella's Mom

connorlevismom said:


> It is DSNYS Retreat in Windsor Hills. A 5 bedroom/5 bath home. I will do a review on the review board here as well so people who are not reading this thread can see it.
> 
> I had some reservations about this owner when I paid the final payment and she refused to give me my paperwork until 2 weeks prior to departure. I paid the final payment in July and we did not leave until October. I asked her several times for the paperwork proving that I had access to the home and all my documentation and was told no several times. That is when a red flag went up for me. Little did I know how absolutely rude she would be while dealing with her on issues. She also switched management compaines from the time I rented and the time of my arrival and changed her email address without ever informing me about it. Not a big deal to some, but I researched mgt. companies to know which ones had clean homes and she had Magical Vacation Homes as hers when I booked. Then it had been switched to someone I have never heard of.
> 
> I rented 3 other homes in WH at the exact same time and had no issues at all with these home owners.




I looked it up and on some sites it even has a picture of a really nice gas grill on the lanai!  Here is the description (it was on several of the sites advertising this house):Private Gas Barbecue,


That really is not the way to gain business.


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## connorlevismom

Cinder" Ella's Mom;46537099]I looked it up and on some sites it even has a picture of a really nice gas grill on the lanai!  Here is the description (it was on several of the sites advertising this house):[COLOR="Red said:
			
		

> Private Gas Barbecue,[/COLOR]
> 
> 
> That really is not the way to gain business.



That is interesting because the owner told me that she had removed all advertising of the BBQ on all websites that she advertises on. I guess that too, was not the truth. And yes, there are pictures of a really nice grill on her webpage and it was also included in my quote for my rental. She is now telling me that I should not have expected it because I did not pay extra to have it there,  though they got rid of the grill and decided not to replace it with another one. Here is what she said in her email: _I have looked at all the sites we advertise on and no games were or are advertised, I also took the BBQ off some time ago even though we only removed the item itself whilst we were there._


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## Friendly Frog

connorlevismom said:


> It is DSNYS Retreat in Windsor Hills. A 5 bedroom/5 bath home. I will do a review on the review board here as well so people who are not reading this thread can see it.
> 
> ... She also switched management compaines from the time I rented and the time of my arrival and changed her email address without ever informing me about it. Not a big deal to some, but I researched mgt. companies to know which ones had clean homes and she had Magical Vacation Homes as hers when I booked. Then it had been switched to someone I have never heard of.



I wonder if the management company might have dropped her due to too many complaints?

Be sure to print off her ad showing the grill and games as included in the price and keep that with your copy of the contract. 

IMO the owner should have apologized for the missing items and attempted to rent for you, or replace, the missing items. If that was not possible she should have attempted to comp you an amount equal to the cost of renting the missing items for the duration of your stay and immediately corrected her ad.  I think if she has still not corrected her ad, this only adds to your credibility that she is trying to deceive renters on the amenities in her home.  Keep track of how long the incorrect ad stays up.  Did she say how long ago she removed the grill? I can see how games might go missing at the last moment and would not blame her too much, ( maybe give you a 25.00 or 30.00 credit for game rental) but the grill has no excuses!

I know that the owners of rental property probably get people trying to scam them all the time, but  I can't believe anyone would risk bad reviews over a hundred dollars, especially when they admit the items listed in their ad were not in the house!  (That decision alone would make me want to run from renting from this owner.) 

I also wouldn't tell her where you post negative reviews, if she whats to find them, let HER do the research. I would not let her intimidate you as long as you can prove what you are saying.  If you do, then the bad property owners win, and renters and good property owners loose.


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## spiceycat

boy some people have alot of nerve.

so sorry you are going thru this. next time remember to take pictures even a phone cam pictures would work.


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## Senator Tressel

The libel suit is an empty threat. Can they sue you for libel? Yes. Would they win that suit? No. It's not going to happen.


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## connorlevismom

review posted:

http://disboards.com/showthread.php?t=3012949


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## mikehn

I dont see anything wrong with your review. I'd post it on tripadvisor and anywhere else you can post about Windsor hills vacation rentals.


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## BonnieP

My husband and I have rented pool homes for the last 5 years. If an owner advertises a grill, there better be one! We usually stay longer than a week and tend to grill out quite a bit.

A house we rented in Sunset Lakes had a grill that was out of propane, so we alerted the owner via email and we exchanged it at the WalMart on Rt.27 . There was a check waiting for us when we returned home for the amount of the propane. We did not mind doing that. 

I checked the house you rented on HomeAway.co.uk and it still lists a grill... The last review was July/2011-not very recent. I would not hesitate leaving a review. I always look for rentals with reviews.

Sorry for your experience... Hope your future rentals work out !


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## chocolatemint

Senator Tressel said:


> The libel suit is an empty threat. Can they sue you for libel? Yes. Would they win that suit? No. It's not going to happen.



This is absolutely true.

She sounds nuts, to be honest. I'd plaster my reviews ALL OVER THE PLACE. REPEATEDLY.

Not for myself, but to protect all the innocent renters in the future from suffering from her deceptions.


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## connorlevismom

chocolatemint said:


> This is absolutely true.
> 
> She sounds nuts, to be honest. I'd plaster my reviews ALL OVER THE PLACE. REPEATEDLY.
> 
> Not for myself, but to protect all the innocent renters in the future from suffering from her deceptions.



I need to be careful to report on anything that I cannot prove. Like the cleanliness, I did not take any pictures. I did think about posting that she threatened to sue me if I posted a negative review, because I do have an email from her that states exactly that. Can I get in trouble for something like that since I can actually prove it?


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## chocolatemint

connorlevismom said:


> I need to be careful to report on anything that I cannot prove. Like the cleanliness, I did not take any pictures. I did think about posting that she threatened to sue me if I posted a negative review, because I do have an email from her that states exactly that. Can I get in trouble for something like that since I can actually prove it?



No, she can't sue you for telling the truth.  She's only throwing that out to try and intimidate you. If she tried that with me I'd laugh in her face and tell her to go right ahead! 

Libel suits are rarely successful because of the immense difficulty in proving them. She'd have to prove that you lied AND prove that it caused actual harm to her - she'd have to show a _direct correlation_. How can she prove that someone didn't rent from her because they read your bad review? Will she personally interrogate everyone who visits TripAdvisor? 

There's no way she's going to spend thousands on a case that any atty would tell her will be tossed out, especially if she's too greedy to refund you a measly $50. She's in the UK, too, which adds another dimension of complexity.

Don't let her bully you. Seriously.

Edited to add: 

Think about how many bad reviews of all sorts of things there are floating around the web. No one has to "prove" anything. Are you required to "prove" that Olive Garden forgot your breadsticks and knocked over your water, or you will get sued by them?

If major corporations with limitless legal counsel on retainer aren't winning libel suits against Joe Smith for saying their soda was nasty, Crazy Lady isn't going to sue and win against you.


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## connorlevismom

chocolatemint said:


> No, she can't sue you for telling the truth.  She's only throwing that out to try and intimidate you. If she tried that with me I'd laugh in her face and tell her to go right ahead!
> 
> Libel suits are rarely successful because of the immense difficulty in proving them. She'd have to prove that you lied AND prove that it caused actual harm to her - she'd have to show a _direct correlation_. How can she prove that someone didn't rent from her because they read your bad review? Will she personally interrogate everyone who visits TripAdvisor?
> 
> There's no way she's going to spend thousands on a case that any atty would tell her will be tossed out, especially if she's too greedy to refund you a measly $50. She's in the UK, too, which adds another dimension of complexity.
> 
> Don't let her bully you. Seriously.
> 
> Edited to add:
> 
> Think about how many bad reviews of all sorts of things there are floating around the web. No one has to "prove" anything. Are you required to "prove" that Olive Garden forgot your breadsticks and knocked over your water, or you will get sued by them?
> 
> If major corporations with limitless legal counsel on retainer aren't winning libel suits against Joe Smith for saying their soda was nasty, Crazy Lady isn't going to sue and win against you.



You're absolutely right and I did add more detail to my review.


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## connorlevismom

Looks like the owner has posted a bunch of reviews from her "guest book" today onto her Homeaway listing. She still is listing that it has a gas grill though and there is still a picture that has the grill in it.

http://www.homeaway.com/vacation-rental/p174437#reviews


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## robinb

connorlevismom said:


> Looks like the owner has posted a bunch of reviews from her "guest book" today onto her Homeaway listing. She still is listing that it has a gas grill though and there is still a picture that has the grill in it.
> 
> http://www.homeaway.com/vacation-rental/p174437#reviews


What the heck?  I thought that she did that to bury your review, but yours isn't even there.  What a maroon.


----------



## DarthMama

Truth is a defense to any libel claim.  So, if you say something bad about someone, and it's true, they have no grounds to claim libel.


----------



## connorlevismom

DarthMama said:


> Truth is a defense to any libel claim.  So, if you say something bad about someone, and it's true, they have no grounds to claim libel.



I don't think she understands that. She still seems to not understand that when you tell someone in their quote for the house that it includes something, it has to be there. She tells me that because it was not an extra fee for it, that it does not matter if it was there or not. It was my fault for assuming it would be there. I don't know if it is because she is from the UK and does not understand the rules here, or what the deal is.


----------



## connorlevismom

robinb said:


> What the heck?  I thought that she did that to bury your review, but yours isn't even there.  What a maroon.



And she clearly does not understand that reviews written by the owners mean nothing. They could write anything! If I saw an ad and it had 14 reviews and 10 of those 14 were written by the owner, NEXT!


----------



## mrsklamc

The only thing that gives me pause is that I am pretty sure when we've rented the contracts have said something like (only in formal language) "amenities subject to availability and if something breaks that's beyond our control and we will do our best to get it fixed but no refund will be given.

Someone said "Isn't there a stove?"...I'm sure there was but when we are planning on grilling, the stove isn't acceptable. Like if we brought things to make grilled burgers and then found out the only way to make burgers was fry them on the stove...yuck.


----------



## connorlevismom

mrsklamc said:


> The only thing that gives me pause is that I am pretty sure when we've rented the contracts have said something like (only in formal language) "amenities subject to availability and if something breaks that's beyond our control and we will do our best to get it fixed but no refund will be given.
> 
> Someone said "Isn't there a stove?"...I'm sure there was but when we are planning on grilling, the stove isn't acceptable. Like if we brought things to make grilled burgers and then found out the only way to make burgers was fry them on the stove...yuck.



They very well might be that in the contract. However, the contract that I signed was from her management company. Before our rental she changed management companies and never told me, nor did she make me fill out a new contract for the new company. I am not 100% certain, but I don't think that the old contract would hold up since she is no longer with that company. I am not sure though.

As for cooking bugers on the stove. I agree with you. Not only would they not taste good, it would stink up the house.


----------



## mikat

Looks like the owner is still advertising the BBQ - huge photo on this site of the grill by itself:
http://www.dwellable.com/h/35324/Fl...r-Hills/Dsnys-Retreat-on-Windsor-Hills-Resort


----------



## connorlevismom

mikat said:


> Looks like the owner is still advertising the BBQ - huge photo on this site of the grill by itself:
> http://www.dwellable.com/h/35324/Fl...r-Hills/Dsnys-Retreat-on-Windsor-Hills-Resort



That is just to bad. I mean, if you don't want the responsibility that comes with renting out your home, then don't do it. And certainly when there are issues, don't tell your customers they are lying and then threaten to sue them.

The more I think about her responses to me, the more I am just floored that she thought it was OK to be so absolutely rude. She very clearly is not someone who can admit they might be wrong about something. Not exactly the type of person that should go into business with dealing with the general public.

Like I said, I had a feeling she was difficult when I paid my final payment and she refused to give me my final paperwork proving that I had rented until SHE wanted to. I was not leaving until October and paid my final in July. I wanted something in my hands proving I had the reservation and it was paid in full. Not sure why she had to argue about that.


----------



## AJ1983

In this case, I would be upset about the grill, especially if I purchased food for the purpose of grilling.

However, I would not expect them to provide games for the gaming systems. I would assume that any kid would bring their favorite games along with them-I certainly wouldn't rely on the rental unit to have it...sort of like expecting to see current magazines in the doctor's office haha. Nor do I think the unit is obliged to provide them.


----------



## "Cinder" Ella's Mom

AJ1983 said:


> In this case, I would be upset about the grill, especially if I purchased food for the purpose of grilling.
> 
> However, I would not expect them to provide games for the gaming systems. I would assume that any kid would bring their favorite games along with them-I certainly wouldn't rely on the rental unit to have it...sort of like expecting to see current magazines in the doctor's office haha. Nor do I think the unit is obliged to provide them.



That makes no sense. There are so many different game systems these days. To assume any renter would have their own games to bring and match whatever system a rental had is not logical. Every house I have ever rented at Windsor Hills has supplied games with the system.


----------



## AJ1983

[QUOTE="Cinder" Ella's Mom;46558212]That makes no sense. There are so many different game systems these days. To assume any renter would have their own games to bring and match whatever system a rental had is not logical. Every house I have ever rented at Windsor Hills has supplied games with the system.[/QUOTE]

I hadn't considered that certain game systems might be a novelty for some children. I was thinking strictly in terms of the kid who can't go a day without playing their favorite xbox game...so I just assumed they would have and bring their own. My mistake


----------



## connorlevismom

AJ1983 said:


> In this case, I would be upset about the grill, especially if I purchased food for the purpose of grilling.
> 
> However, I would not expect them to provide games for the gaming systems. I would assume that any kid would bring their favorite games along with them-I certainly wouldn't rely on the rental unit to have it...sort of like expecting to see current magazines in the doctor's office haha. Nor do I think the unit is obliged to provide them.





Cinder" Ella's Mom;46558212]That makes no sense. There are so many different game systems these days. To assume any renter would have their own games to bring and match whatever system a rental had is not logical. Every house I have ever rented at Windsor Hills has supplied games with the system.[/QUOTE]

[quote="AJ1983 said:


> I hadn't considered that certain game systems might be a novelty for some children. I was thinking strictly in terms of the kid who can't go a day without playing their favorite xbox game...so I just assumed they would have and bring their own. My mistake



This was our case. We don't have either an Xbox or a PS2. We rented the house because we don't have those and it would be fun for my son to be able to play those games, since we don't have the systems. We only have a Wii. So he was really excited about being able to play both the other systems. And he was REALLY bummed when there were no games.


----------



## mrsklamc

Don't suppose you paid with a credit card, or paypal, or anyone with whom you could contest the charges?


----------



## cey

As a long term renter at WH for many years, I personally would not want to deal with any renter who has a MC that is not available on the weekends.  A reputable MC would even supply emergency numbers for afterhours in case of major problems which lets face it can occur.  If a pipe bursts or the lock ceases up on your front door, any renter is entitled to prompt assistance and correction of the problem from a management company.  That saying, any vacation rental is only as good as its management company. Case in point, last year the house next door to us was advertised as pet free.  A renter moved in with two huge dogs ( and I mean big dogs ) which were locked inside all day long (10-15 hours) while they were away.  The management company finally managed to evict them on the seventh day but then only spent less than an hour cleaning the four bedroom villa.  Sorry, but I don't care how good your cleaning crew is, 1 hour is not enough time to remove hair and pet dander and excrement from inside and outside!  They didn't even touch the pool lanai!  Sorry about your situation but rest assured you are helping other potential renters avoid this bad apple!


----------



## connorlevismom

cey said:


> As a long term renter at WH for many years, I personally would not want to deal with any renter who has a MC that is not available on the weekends.  A reputable MC would even supply emergency numbers for afterhours in case of major problems which lets face it can occur.  If a pipe bursts or the lock ceases up on your front door, any renter is entitled to prompt assistance and correction of the problem from a management company.  That saying, any vacation rental is only as good as its management company. Case in point, last year the house next door to us was advertised as pet free.  A renter moved in with two huge dogs ( and I mean big dogs ) which were locked inside all day long (10-15 hours) while they were away.  The management company finally managed to evict them on the seventh day but then only spent less than an hour cleaning the four bedroom villa.  Sorry, but I don't care how good your cleaning crew is, 1 hour is not enough time to remove hair and pet dander and excrement from inside and outside!  They didn't even touch the pool lanai!  Sorry about your situation but rest assured you are helping other potential renters avoid this bad apple!



I agree 100%. When I rented the homes I researched not only them, but their management companies. I was very comfortable with them all. This owner switched comanies and never told me (not that she is required to) and I did not find it out until after I arrived at the house and saw the book. She switched to someone that I had never heard of. Had I known this ahead of time, I would have cancelled and rented from someone else.

This company did have an after hours number and we did call it, but we had to leave a message. When the person came the next day to look at the cleanliness, he told me that they did not respond because they only respond to real emergencies and this was not an emergency. He even told me that a backed-up toilet was not an emergency (we did not ahve a backed-up toilet) because there are more bathrooms in the house.

I asked the owner about the management company change and she told me it was because she was being ripped off from the other company. I had another house with this same management company and it was SUPER clean and well mantained. I am thinking that she changed because she wanted something cheaper. I honestly do not think that she wants the responsibilities of being an owner of a rental.


----------



## Ali

Was there any way to file a complaint with your credit card company?


----------



## dis-happy

The situation sounds crazy.  Thanks for letting us know a rental house to avoid.


----------



## Kathryn19007

To Connerlevismom,

Boy oh boy, you sure got a lot of exposure on this thread regarding your supposed horrid time at Windsor Hills. I would have to say that you did better here than on Trip Advisor for sure!

You are what I would like to classify, as the guest from hell.... the ones who find fault in pretty much everything and then try to benefit back from it. I do not say this lightly... I have gone through your reviews on Trip Advisor, and also many of your posts on here, and I actually have to search to find a positive report from you. Troubling most though is how you draw others in; those who have not been there, witnessed and go by your word without doing a bit of background checking. Interesting that, as I stated on the Trip Advisor Board (my goodness, was there a review site you missed??) you have either profited by or been offered compensation for half the complaints you lodged, not a bad track record... what was it I called folks who do this on a regular basis? Holiday Hounds? No, that wasn't it, will have to go back and reread the post I guess. But have seen folks who do this, in action all over the world (look me up on Trip Advisor, been to a LOT of countries in my 38 years of traveling so I do not speak out of turn.... of folks who book a lower resort, for example, then go running to the rep. loudly complaining and the only way to shut them up is to upscale them to another resort, usually the one they wanted to book but didn't want to pay the price in the first place! I have even heard folks laugh and tel others about their scam!
But back to the problem at hand.
I stayed at Dsnys Retreat last year in December for a week. Place was spotless, inviting, great location, easy to find, amenities  were amazing, beds comfortable, showers incredible, decorating was as if I was at a friend's home, not a rental home... pool was great, water clean... and I could go on and on. 

I also stayed there this year, RIGHT AFTER YOU... and my question would be.... what on earth did you do to the microwave that the glass popped right out of the frame??? I had to call the management company and within 4 hours it was replaced with new. And I did NOT ask the owners for a discount due to not being able to heat up my coffee cup!

 I was as thrilled this time around as last time... and yes, I saw a bug in the lanai... oh my god!! and this one was alive!! Fancy that! Also saw one (thankfully dead) in our bedroom one morning... we gave it a proper burial, down the toilet! What we love about this property is it is easy to find in Windsor Hills, great location with no snoopy neighbours looking in from the back yard, house is very roomy, has everything you would need.... I want to be a kid again to sleep in the bunk beds... and my friends drool when I post my photos on Facebook! 

Your biggest complaint was no BBQ. Did you not notice immediately that it was missing? If so, did you make an inquiry to the owners? If the BBQ was so important to you, why didn't you just rent one from the management company as I know for a fact that they rent them for a very reasonable rate, full tank of propane and all! Might have cost you an additional $45 at most! Big deal when you are on a Disney Vacation.... $45 doesn't even buy you LUNCH on site for two people!! 

Game units - if MY children were excited about these game units I would most definitely inquire as to what games are available, and if nothing was to my children's fancy I would have gone to my local rental store and rented ones they would like. With the ages of your children, Precious Ponies and Barbie games might not have been much interest. Would you have complained if those two games or similar were all that were available or would you have gone to a rental store and get some of more interest? 

As for cleanliness.... I do find it hard to believe that the owners would have left "remnants" of themselves all over the carpeting knowing that guests were coming in right afterwards. My goodness how close DID you get to check out which supposed hair was which?? 

Bugs.... come to Eastern Ontario in June - August and if you do NOT see bugs... well, Florida is a tropical area, there are bugs... BIG BUGS... BIG FLYING BUGS.... and I know that these resort areas spray the areas to death, however some last longer than they were supposed to, and end up dying in many inconvenient places... up here it is usually in my coffee cup!  So IF you did see bugs, just sweep them up, voila, end of drama!

Home owners who live far rely on their management company to care for the house. Only with CONSTRUCTIVE criticism can they improve their services, their homes, for their guests. No one place is perfect, even high end resorts have issues. It just depends on the guests ATTITUDES as to how they will choose to deal with it. Noisy air conditioners, cracked tiles, marks on the wall, lamps with light bulbs which do not work, outlets which do not work, coded door batteries die, and the list can go on forever. If I were to pick apart every place I have ever stayed in, well, I could always find something wrong.... but why bother. Because I focus on the good parts... and there is always good parts... and while I have reviewed many properties, I have never ever thought to demand compensation... I just "learn my lesson" and move on... well, except for a horrid hole in the wall in Paris we stayed in 2010~!!   haha

Anyway, I think, before everyone gets on the band wagon, it might be wise to look into it yourself. I noticed that over 10,000 views are on this topic. All by the word of one guest. Scary to think that a business can be ruined by one disgruntled guest who makes claims that no one can back up (aside from the missing BBQ worth about $45 for a week). Even the alleged "bugs" were not in evidence when inspected. 

So please, we all have the right to review be it a restaurant, hotel, resort, facility, whatever, but please keep in mind, those who read them that this might be ONE person's opinion and ONE person's perception.
Cheers
Kathy Gingras
Ontario, Canada
225 Cities and counting...


----------



## mrsklamc

LOL. Like we are really supposed to believe that you, with your single post, just _happen_ to be the guest that stayed there right after OP and _happened_ to run across this thread. If you think you are dissuading anyone from believing OPs opinion you are _so_ mistaken. You've only made it look even more like the property is owned by a deranged internet stalker.


----------



## kathie859

oooohhhh....Kathryn19007---methinks thou dost protest too much
Especially for a first post


----------



## mrsklamc

Kathryn19007 said:


> To Connerlevismom,
> 
> Boy oh boy, you sure got a lot of exposure on this thread regarding your supposed horrid time at Windsor Hills. I would have to say that you did better here than on Trip Advisor for sure!
> 
> You are what I would like to classify, as the guest from hell.... the ones who find fault in pretty much everything and then try to benefit back from it. I do not say this lightly... I have gone through your reviews on Trip Advisor, and also many of your posts on here, and I actually have to search to find a positive report from you. Troubling most though is how you draw others in; those who have not been there, witnessed and go by your word without doing a bit of background checking. Interesting that, as I stated on the Trip Advisor Board (my goodness, was there a review site you missed??) you have either profited by or been offered compensation for half the complaints you lodged, not a bad track record... what was it I called folks who do this on a regular basis? Holiday Hounds? No, that wasn't it, will have to go back and reread the post I guess. But have seen folks who do this, in action all over the world (look me up on Trip Advisor, been to a LOT of countries in my 38 years of traveling so I do not speak out of turn.... of folks who book a lower resort, for example, then go running to the rep. loudly complaining and the only way to shut them up is to upscale them to another resort, usually the one they wanted to book but didn't want to pay the price in the first place! I have even heard folks laugh and tel others about their scam!
> But back to the problem at hand.
> I stayed at Dsnys Retreat last year in December for a week. Place was spotless, inviting, great location, easy to find, amenities  were amazing, beds comfortable, showers incredible, decorating was as if I was at a friend's home, not a rental home... pool was great, water clean... and I could go on and on.
> 
> I also stayed there this year, RIGHT AFTER YOU... and my question would be.... what on earth did you do to the microwave that the glass popped right out of the frame??? I had to call the management company and within 4 hours it was replaced with new. And I did NOT ask the owners for a discount due to not being able to heat up my coffee cup!
> 
> I was as thrilled this time around as last time... and yes, I saw a bug in the lanai... oh my god!! and this one was alive!! Fancy that! Also saw one (thankfully dead) in our bedroom one morning... we gave it a proper burial, down the toilet! What we love about this property is it is easy to find in Windsor Hills, great location with no snoopy neighbours looking in from the back yard, house is very roomy, has everything you would need.... I want to be a kid again to sleep in the bunk beds... and my friends drool when I post my photos on Facebook!
> 
> Your biggest complaint was no BBQ. Did you not notice immediately that it was missing? If so, did you make an inquiry to the owners? If the BBQ was so important to you, why didn't you just rent one from the management company as I know for a fact that they rent them for a very reasonable rate, full tank of propane and all! Might have cost you an additional $45 at most! Big deal when you are on a Disney Vacation.... $45 doesn't even buy you LUNCH on site for two people!!
> 
> Game units - if MY children were excited about these game units I would most definitely inquire as to what games are available, and if nothing was to my children's fancy I would have gone to my local rental store and rented ones they would like. With the ages of your children, Precious Ponies and Barbie games might not have been much interest. Would you have complained if those two games or similar were all that were available or would you have gone to a rental store and get some of more interest?
> 
> As for cleanliness.... I do find it hard to believe that the owners would have left "remnants" of themselves all over the carpeting knowing that guests were coming in right afterwards. My goodness how close DID you get to check out which supposed hair was which??
> 
> Bugs.... come to Eastern Ontario in June - August and if you do NOT see bugs... well, Florida is a tropical area, there are bugs... BIG BUGS... BIG FLYING BUGS.... and I know that these resort areas spray the areas to death, however some last longer than they were supposed to, and end up dying in many inconvenient places... up here it is usually in my coffee cup!  So IF you did see bugs, just sweep them up, voila, end of drama!
> 
> Home owners who live far rely on their management company to care for the house. Only with CONSTRUCTIVE criticism can they improve their services, their homes, for their guests. No one place is perfect, even high end resorts have issues. It just depends on the guests ATTITUDES as to how they will choose to deal with it. Noisy air conditioners, cracked tiles, marks on the wall, lamps with light bulbs which do not work, outlets which do not work, coded door batteries die, and the list can go on forever. If I were to pick apart every place I have ever stayed in, well, I could always find something wrong.... but why bother. Because I focus on the good parts... and there is always good parts... and while I have reviewed many properties, I have never ever thought to demand compensation... I just "learn my lesson" and move on... well, except for a horrid hole in the wall in Paris we stayed in 2010~!!   haha
> 
> Anyway, I think, before everyone gets on the band wagon, it might be wise to look into it yourself. I noticed that over 10,000 views are on this topic. All by the word of one guest. Scary to think that a business can be ruined by one disgruntled guest who makes claims that no one can back up (aside from the missing BBQ worth about $45 for a week). Even the alleged "bugs" were not in evidence when inspected.
> 
> So please, we all have the right to review be it a restaurant, hotel, resort, facility, whatever, but please keep in mind, those who read them that this might be ONE person's opinion and ONE person's perception.
> Cheers
> Kathy Gingras
> Ontario, Canada
> 225 Cities and counting...



The rule.


----------



## thumbalyna

Funny how Kathryn19007 never posted on this forum before, is the exact guest who stayed in the rental immediately upon OP departing and the rental was amazing.

I find it funny how she mentions a damaged microwave, is she trying to say not only did OP break it but she rigged it back up so you couldn't notice the glass was no longer in the door!

I writes reviews on TA whether good or bad. I think that nice middle of the road reviews mean more when i travel than bad or great reviews.

Whoever Kathryn190007 is obviously has too much time on her hands if she is stalking OP to see where she is posting reviews at.


----------



## MilitaryMouse

mrsklamc said:


> LOL. Like we are really supposed to believe that you, with your single post, just _happen_ to be the guest that stayed there right after OP and _happened_ to run across this thread. If you think you are dissuading anyone from believing OPs opinion you are _so_ mistaken. You've only made it look even more like the property is owned by a deranged internet stalker.



 so true!


----------



## mikat

Kathryn19007 said:


> To Connerlevismom,
> Boy oh boy, you sure got a lot of exposure on this thread regarding your supposed horrid time at Windsor Hills. I would have to say that you did better here than on Trip Advisor for sure!


- diatribe omitted - 



> So please, we all have the right to review be it a restaurant, hotel, resort, facility, whatever, but please keep in mind, those who read them that this might be ONE person's opinion and ONE person's perception.
> Cheers
> Kathy Gingras
> Ontario, Canada
> 225 Cities and counting...




Wow.  Just . . . wow.

Whoever wrote this, you just made a bigger case for never renting this house than OP ever could have.


----------



## connorlevismom

"Kathryn",

The best thing you could have done was just ignore the thread. Nobody has posted in it since the 30th of October, so by you coming on here and posting your very obvious rant, you just bumped it right back up to the top of the page and now even more people will really get to see for themselves just what I have been talking about and dealing with. Should have just left well enough alone.


----------



## Robbi

mrsklamc said:


> The rule.



What is the rule?



connorlevismom said:


> "Kathryn",
> 
> The best thing you could have done was just ignore the thread. Nobody has posted in it since the 30th of October, so by you coming on here and posting your very obvious rant, you just bumped it right back up to the top of the page and now even more people will really get to see for themselves just what I have been talking about and dealing with. Should have just left well enough alone.




You're right. I would never have seen this thread otherwise. Thanks Kathryn, by posting you alerted me to the thread and now I know not to rent that house.

Have to add all the comments added by owner cracked me up.


----------



## 4kids4karen

Ain't nobody got time for that!

http://youtu.be/kOGBIbqXwYE


----------



## "Cinder" Ella's Mom

The OP should rent a 45$ grill when one was promised to her and asking for compensation is wrong? Nutty. If you think listing a name on here precludes us from thinking you ARE the owner or a friend of hers...not buying it.


----------



## robinb

Hmmm ... Kathy added her review on the owner's Home Away listing the same day that the owner added TEN owner submitted reviews to bury the OP's negative review.  What a coincidence!


----------



## dis-happy

NP: passive agressive much???

Funnier still, the DISers here on this board advised her to ask for a credit back, an absolutely not unreasonable request.

I read the TA reviews and thought she did her best not to vilify but stayed pretty middle of the road.

Think we should all work to bump this post every month or week or so to warn others!!

 to the OP.  That renter comes off sounding insane.


----------



## robinb

Kathryn19007 said:


> I also stayed there this year, RIGHT AFTER YOU...


Oh really?  The OP was there on 10/15 when she started this thread.  You posted your review on Home Away on 10/26 saying that your stay was in September, NOT October.


----------



## wgeo

Robbi said:


> What is the rule?
> 
> 
> Robbi - the unofficial rule of the disboards is that when someone posts a "rant" you quote the entire rant in a reply, so that when the poster goes back and edits their rant (changes their story) everyone can still see what the original rant was because it is copied into another post.


----------



## zianha

Kathryn19007's post made me chuckle! 

(Bump!)


----------



## connorlevismom

It really is scary that an owner would go this far to harrass a renter. I think I do plan to keep this thing bumped so that people can see what the owner is really like.


----------



## connorlevismom

robinb said:


> Oh really?  The OP was there on 10/15 when she started this thread.  You posted your review on Home Away on 10/26 saying that your stay was in September, NOT October.



Hmmmm the owner also told me that she was there right before me. This is when she pretty much called me a liar and that there was NO WAY that I was seeing was I was seeing because she was just there and cleaned the house herself. So strange that "Kathryn" stayed there right around the same time!


----------



## connorlevismom

dis-happy said:


> NP: passive agressive much???
> 
> Funnier still, the DISers here on this board advised her to ask for a credit back, an absolutely not unreasonable request.
> 
> I read the TA reviews and thought she did her best not to vilify but stayed pretty middle of the road.
> 
> Think we should all work to bump this post every month or week or so to warn others!!
> 
> to the OP.  That renter comes off sounding insane.



Well - at least I can warn others about it. And they don't even just have to take my word for it anymore. They can see for themselves!



robinb said:


> Oh really?  The OP was there on 10/15 when she started this thread.  You posted your review on Home Away on 10/26 saying that your stay was in September, NOT October.



Nice catch!



wgeo said:


> Robbi said:
> 
> 
> 
> What is the rule?
> 
> 
> Robbi - the unofficial rule of the disboards is that when someone posts a "rant" you quote the entire rant in a reply, so that when the poster goes back and edits their rant (changes their story) everyone can still see what the original rant was because it is copied into another post.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I like that rule, very valid in this situation.
Click to expand...


----------



## connorlevismom

Was just looking through my trip advisor review and someone else posted that the owner threatened to sue them too. Looks like this is not an isolated incident with her.


----------



## Gr8t Fan

Wow...just WOW!!!    It's so obvious that Kathryn is the owner or a friend of hers.  Too many coincidences.  

OP I really appreciate you taking the time to post your review and all of the drama that followed.  We travel to WDW every year, usually with extended family, stay at WH and I'm in charge of everyone's accomodations because we've been there so often.  Knowing which owners to stay away from is a HUGE plus in my book.


----------



## connorlevismom

OMG - this is almost comical now. I just get a PM on Trip Advisor from "Kathyrn" personally attacking me and telling me that she hopes I sleep well at night. ***? You got a bad review, get the hell over it and stop acting like a crazy person. My god!

BTW - she also called all of you on the DIS my cronies. I am so important that I have cronies. YAY ME!


----------



## kathie859

I would send Tripadvisor a copy of the owner's last communication.  She sounds like a real nut


----------



## rlduvall

I have been following this thread for a while because it was just so darn entertaining,  BUT, OMG - it just got incredibly wild.  Actually, the owner and "Kathryn" frighten me more than a little.


----------



## OnlyDisney

Thanks for keeping us updated on what's going on with this owner.  I also like the idea of bumping up this thread monthly


----------



## mouseketeer_mom

Been lurking here since your original post (which I found very reasonable) but it wasn't until I realized that you have your own "cronies" and "stalkers" that I realized that you might be a celebrity

Now, where's that Kathryn chick?  

Surely, she joined because she's planning a very special trip to the most Magical Place on Earth and just happened to stumble upon your thread


----------



## connorlevismom

mouseketeer_mom said:


> Been lurking here since your original post (which I found very reasonable) but it wasn't until I realized that you have your own "cronies" and "stalkers" that I realized that you might be a celebrity
> 
> Now, where's that Kathryn chick?
> 
> Surely, she joined because she's planning a very special trip to the most Magical Place on Earth and just happened to stumble upon your thread



Oh....she won't be back. She let me know that she has no intention of visiting the "DIS CLICK BOARD", ever again.

She also said she questions me looking into the management company and said "who does that? You are renting a week in Fl, not a year". Well Kathryn, I DO and so do lots of others on this boards. We all know who the good and bad management companies are. It is called doing your research.


----------



## mouseketeer_mom

connorlevismom said:


> Oh....she won't be back. She let me know that she has no intention of visiting the "DIS CLICK BOARD", ever again.
> 
> She also said she questions me looking into the management company and said "who does that? You are renting a week in Fl, not a year". Well Kathryn, I DO and so do lots of others on this boards. We all know who the good and bad management companies are. It is called doing your research.



Must be because Kathryn doesn't need references as she is Psychic! She was even able to review her stay that occurred after yours before hers was finished!  She's crazy good, that one

Joking aside: I am sorry this has happened to you Connerlevismom. It has to be just a little concerning that "Kathryn" really does seem to be doing a little internet stalking and that's just plain creepy. BE cautious! Remember, she has some of your very personal information.


----------



## connorlevismom

mouseketeer_mom said:


> Must be because Kathryn doesn't need references as she is Psychic! She was even able to review her stay that occurred after yours before hers was finished!  She's crazy good, that one
> 
> Joking aside: I am sorry this has happened to you Connerlevismom. It has to be just a little concerning that "Kathryn" really does seem to be doing a little internet stalking and that's just plain creepy. BE cautious! Remember, she has some of your very personal information.



I know and honestly, that does worry me a bit. I would not put it past her to do anything at this point. She has shown herself to be a bit crazed.


----------



## mrsklamc

I'd definitely look into what avenues you have to report harassment through tripadvisor, and any sites such as home away the property is listed on. There's also a WH Facebook page with a recommendations section- I'd let folks there know as well.


----------



## parkhopping

I was intrigued by the title of this thread and just read the whole thing...and I have to say, as much as I hate this situation for you, OP - "Kathryn's" entrance made it _hilarious!_ I will happily be one of your cronies... 

Here's hoping this owner can be at least put out of business due to negative reviews! Have you looked into the BBB? Not sure if they deal with private home rentals or not but I figure it's worth a shot. Go through every avenue possible to report this crazy woman.


----------



## Mysteria

Kathryn ends her screen name in 007.


----------



## robinb

parkhopping said:


> Here's hoping this owner can be at least put out of business due to negative reviews! Have you looked into the BBB? Not sure if they deal with private home rentals or not but I figure it's worth a shot. Go through every avenue possible to report this crazy woman.


Wow.  I don't know about the OP, but I don't want the owner to be put out of business.  She needs to change the way she deals with customers, but I wouldn't want someone to lose their rental home because of a negative review.  That's really over the top IMO.


----------



## mrsklamc

robinb said:


> Wow.  I don't know about the OP, but I don't want the owner to be put out of business.  She needs to change the way she deals with customers, but I wouldn't want someone to lose their rental home because of a negative review.  That's really over the top IMO.



I wouldn't say 'lose her rental home' but I would hope she either realizes she can't lie to and stalk customers, or gets out of the business altogether.


----------



## connorlevismom

parkhopping said:


> I was intrigued by the title of this thread and just read the whole thing...and I have to say, as much as I hate this situation for you, OP - "Kathryn's" entrance made it _hilarious!_ I will happily be one of your cronies...
> 
> Here's hoping this owner can be at least put out of business due to negative reviews! Have you looked into the BBB? Not sure if they deal with private home rentals or not but I figure it's worth a shot. Go through every avenue possible to report this crazy woman.



I don't want to put her out of business, I am just hoping to warn others about her behavior. If she goes out of business because this is how she deals with anyone that has a slight problem with her rental, than that is on her. But I did not start this thread to put her out of business I just started it to ask for some advice on her rental. It turned ugly because of her behavior towards me.

I will say that either her (or her friend) have just made things 100% worse for her by showing up all over the internet to harass me. Like I said, should have left well enough alone. One bad review won't kill your business, but showing up and attacking someone willl.



robinb said:


> Wow.  I don't know about the OP, but I don't want the owner to be put out of business.  She needs to change the way she deals with customers, but I wouldn't want someone to lose their rental home because of a negative review.  That's really over the top IMO.





mrsklamc said:


> I wouldn't say 'lose her rental home' but I would hope she either realizes she can't lie to and stalk customers, or gets out of the business altogether.



I would hope that she will change the way she deals with people, but I doubt it. I saw that I was not the only person she threatened to sue, so it seems to me this is just her personality and maybe this kind of business is just not for her.

I don't appreciate being called the guest from hell, someone who gets paid to write bad reviews and telling me that you hope I sleep well at night because I clearly got what I wanted out of this review, putting her out of business. THAT IMO, is completely over the top and unreasonable. But, again it just shows everyone what kind of person she is. She forgets that I also rented 3 other homes at the same time and had no issues with any of them or their owners and wrote great reviews for them. 

Hopefully she (or "Kathryn") learned their lesson and I never hear from either of them again. Unfortunately, something tells me this is not over.


----------



## snowy76

chocolatemint said:


> Libel suits are rarely successful because of the immense difficulty in proving them. She'd have to prove that you lied AND prove that it caused actual harm to her - she'd have to show a _direct correlation_. How can she prove that someone didn't rent from her because they read your bad review? Will she personally interrogate everyone who visits TripAdvisor?



My understanding is libel law is different in the UK... the burden of proof is on the defendant to show they weren't lying. So the owner may very well think she has a case - of course in the US, she does not.

Either way, she's not conducting herself very professionally.


----------



## mrsklamc

snowy76 said:


> My understanding is libel law is different in the UK... the burden of proof is on the defendant to show they weren't lying. So the owner may very well think she has a case - of course in the US, she does not.



The irony being that if that's the case, since her posts are likely made from England, (though here it says she's in Canada, the same username posts from Cornwall, England on tripadvisor) it's possible that OP could sue _her_ for libel. Not that I recommend that, it's just ironic.


----------



## Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina

mrsklamc said:


> The irony being that if that's the case, since her posts are likely made from England, (though here it says she's in Canada, the same username posts from Cornwall, England on tripadvisor) it's possible that OP could sue _her_ for libel. Not that I recommend that, it's just ironic.



Her TripAdvisor posts indicate she is from Cornwall, Canada.  Its a small city in eastern Ontario, about an hour and a half from Ottawa.

Not to say that's where she's actually from........but there _*is*_ a Cornwall in Canada.


----------



## mrsklamc

Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina said:


> Her TripAdvisor posts indicate she is from Cornwall, Canada.  Its a small city in eastern Ontario, about an hour and a half from Ottawa.
> 
> Not to say that's where she's actually from........but there _*is*_ a Cornwall in Canada.



My mistake...I think of Cornwall as England.


----------



## nessz79

LOL- I'm sorry for the bad luck you had, OP, but this is one of the funniest threads I've seen due to "Kathy's" post!

Keep that last communication from her!


----------



## wildelady

just read this all the way through, and i am gobsmacked.
Please dont think that we all like that in the UK, I would have done the same as you given the problems you had with the rental.


----------



## lsulindy

wow


----------



## Alesia

Kathryn19007 said:


> To Connerlevismom,
> 
> Boy oh boy, you sure got a lot of exposure on this thread regarding your supposed horrid time at Windsor Hills. I would have to say that you did better here than on Trip Advisor for sure!
> 
> You are what I would like to classify, as the guest from hell.... the ones who find fault in pretty much everything and then try to benefit back from it. I do not say this lightly... I have gone through your reviews on Trip Advisor, and also many of your posts on here, and I actually have to search to find a positive report from you. Troubling most though is how you draw others in; those who have not been there, witnessed and go by your word without doing a bit of background checking. Interesting that, as I stated on the Trip Advisor Board (my goodness, was there a review site you missed??) you have either profited by or been offered compensation for half the complaints you lodged, not a bad track record... what was it I called folks who do this on a regular basis? Holiday Hounds? No, that wasn't it, will have to go back and reread the post I guess. But have seen folks who do this, in action all over the world (look me up on Trip Advisor, been to a LOT of countries in my 38 years of traveling so I do not speak out of turn.... of folks who book a lower resort, for example, then go running to the rep. loudly complaining and the only way to shut them up is to upscale them to another resort, usually the one they wanted to book but didn't want to pay the price in the first place! I have even heard folks laugh and tel others about their scam!
> But back to the problem at hand.
> I stayed at Dsnys Retreat last year in December for a week. Place was spotless, inviting, great location, easy to find, amenities  were amazing, beds comfortable, showers incredible, decorating was as if I was at a friend's home, not a rental home... pool was great, water clean... and I could go on and on.
> 
> I also stayed there this year, RIGHT AFTER YOU... and my question would be.... what on earth did you do to the microwave that the glass popped right out of the frame??? I had to call the management company and within 4 hours it was replaced with new. And I did NOT ask the owners for a discount due to not being able to heat up my coffee cup!
> 
> I was as thrilled this time around as last time... and yes, I saw a bug in the lanai... oh my god!! and this one was alive!! Fancy that! Also saw one (thankfully dead) in our bedroom one morning... we gave it a proper burial, down the toilet! What we love about this property is it is easy to find in Windsor Hills, great location with no snoopy neighbours looking in from the back yard, house is very roomy, has everything you would need.... I want to be a kid again to sleep in the bunk beds... and my friends drool when I post my photos on Facebook!
> 
> Your biggest complaint was no BBQ. Did you not notice immediately that it was missing? If so, did you make an inquiry to the owners? If the BBQ was so important to you, why didn't you just rent one from the management company as I know for a fact that they rent them for a very reasonable rate, full tank of propane and all! Might have cost you an additional $45 at most! Big deal when you are on a Disney Vacation.... $45 doesn't even buy you LUNCH on site for two people!!
> 
> Game units - if MY children were excited about these game units I would most definitely inquire as to what games are available, and if nothing was to my children's fancy I would have gone to my local rental store and rented ones they would like. With the ages of your children, Precious Ponies and Barbie games might not have been much interest. Would you have complained if those two games or similar were all that were available or would you have gone to a rental store and get some of more interest?
> 
> As for cleanliness.... I do find it hard to believe that the owners would have left "remnants" of themselves all over the carpeting knowing that guests were coming in right afterwards. My goodness how close DID you get to check out which supposed hair was which??
> 
> Bugs.... come to Eastern Ontario in June - August and if you do NOT see bugs... well, Florida is a tropical area, there are bugs... BIG BUGS... BIG FLYING BUGS.... and I know that these resort areas spray the areas to death, however some last longer than they were supposed to, and end up dying in many inconvenient places... up here it is usually in my coffee cup!  So IF you did see bugs, just sweep them up, voila, end of drama!
> 
> Home owners who live far rely on their management company to care for the house. Only with CONSTRUCTIVE criticism can they improve their services, their homes, for their guests. No one place is perfect, even high end resorts have issues. It just depends on the guests ATTITUDES as to how they will choose to deal with it. Noisy air conditioners, cracked tiles, marks on the wall, lamps with light bulbs which do not work, outlets which do not work, coded door batteries die, and the list can go on forever. If I were to pick apart every place I have ever stayed in, well, I could always find something wrong.... but why bother. Because I focus on the good parts... and there is always good parts... and while I have reviewed many properties, I have never ever thought to demand compensation... I just "learn my lesson" and move on... well, except for a horrid hole in the wall in Paris we stayed in 2010~!!   haha
> 
> Anyway, I think, before everyone gets on the band wagon, it might be wise to look into it yourself. I noticed that over 10,000 views are on this topic. All by the word of one guest. Scary to think that a business can be ruined by one disgruntled guest who makes claims that no one can back up (aside from the missing BBQ worth about $45 for a week). Even the alleged "bugs" were not in evidence when inspected.
> 
> So please, we all have the right to review be it a restaurant, hotel, resort, facility, whatever, but please keep in mind, those who read them that this might be ONE person's opinion and ONE person's perception.
> Cheers
> Kathy Gingras
> Ontario, Canada
> 225 Cities and counting...



Connorlevismom might be a little bit picky, but Kathryn - you've just made her seem more credible by comparison. Anybody who reads this knows that you are either the owner or a very good friend of the owner.


----------



## Shelly F - Ohio

Dear OP you have every right to be checking for bugs and cleanliness. I am a DVC owner and I always check for bed bugs and how clean the room is at Disney. In fact last month we were staying at the Poly and our bathroom had not been cleaned!  There were dirty towels on the floor and the toliet was dirty. I called down to the front desk and they sent someone up to clean the bathroom. 

I wonder how many other complaints/bad reviews this owner has against her


----------



## CraftyMommy

It is very obvious to me the owner is "Kathryn."  By posting on here it made her look like a total wacko and gave the Original Poster's story so much credibility!  I feel so bad that you had to deal with such a crazy person.  

She sounds like a slum lord, which is a term used for property owners who rip off their renters and refuse to keep up on repairs or respond to maintenance needs.

That "review" she posted on her website isn't fooling anybody.  We ALL know it is her.  What an IDIOT!  Completely transparent, we can see right through her.

Ok, I'm done making fun of the lady.  She probably needs mental help.


----------



## 3pletprincesses

Wow... just wow! Thanks for posting your review. I'm one of those who also look at reviews and seeing so many good reviews coming from her guest book posted right after your review would clearly raise a  flag in my books. Keep your head up. You did the right thing. This person really sounds like a head case not worth dealing with.


----------



## Lewisc

Could the OP have rented a BBQ, with propane for $45?  They should have done that.  They should have, at least attempted, to have that reimbursed from the owner.  I don't know how far I would have taken it.  The owner may be a little "off" but expecting a 15% rebate is a little much.

I have no idea how many, if any, games you had a right to expect.  Absolutely no guarantee they'd have a game your kids would enjoy or even one you'd let them play.


----------



## mrsklamc

Lewisc said:


> Could the OP have rented a BBQ, with propane for $45?  They should have done that.  They should have, at least attempted, to have that reimbursed from the owner.  I don't know how far I would have taken it.  The owner may be a little "off" but expecting a 15% rebate is a little much.
> 
> I have no idea how many, if any, games you had a right to expect.  Absolutely no guarantee they'd have a game your kids would enjoy or even one you'd let them play.



The OWNER should have rented one for $45 and had it delivered. And yes, if a game system is advertised, games are to be expected. 

I don't think 15% is unreasonable at all.


----------



## Lewisc

Lewisc said:


> I have no idea *how many*, if any, games you had a right to expect.  *Absolutely no guarantee they'd have a game your kids would enjoy or even one you'd let them play*.





mrsklamc said:


> The OWNER should have rented one for $45 and had it delivered. And yes, if a game system is advertised, games are to be expected.
> 
> I don't think 15% is unreasonable at all.



But not necessarily a game a parent would let their kids play (rating) or a game the kids would enjoy playing.  A private owner says there is a game console.  I'd plan on bringing games, renting games or specifically asking what titles they have. $45 to cover the cost of renting the grill would be fair compensation if the OP rented a grill. The OP talked about looking forward to grilling. Why didn't they rent a grill?

I agree the owner sounds like a jerk.  It sounds like the OP deserves a rebate.  I think some posters are suggesting asking for an amount which is high (JMO).

I think this is one of the issues when you rent from a private person.


----------



## mouseketeer_mom

Lewisc said:


> Could the OP have rented a BBQ, with propane for $45?  They should have done that.  They should have, at least attempted, to have that reimbursed from the owner.  I don't know how far I would have taken it.  The owner may be a little "off" but expecting a 15% rebate is a little much.
> 
> I have no idea how many, if any, games you had a right to expect.  Absolutely no guarantee they'd have a game your kids would enjoy or even one you'd let them play.



I could be wrong, but I think the entire situation could have been avoided if the owners response had been different from the very beginning. Maybe $50 to $75 would have been more than adequate if it had been approached from a different perspective.

Response from the owner might have been....

_"I'm so sorry the cleanliness of the home did not meet with your expectations, I will contact the management company immediately and request that your concerns are addressed at the earlest possible time. I am embarassed that our home is anything but clean.

I also apologize that the grill has recently become inoperable and we have not had an opportunity to replace it.  As I am sure you must have had plans to use it, I will contact ABC rentals and arrange for the rental of a grill for the duration of your stay.

Lastly, I completely share your frustrations regarding the missing video games.  We too enjoyed having them in the home. Unfortunately, we will likely no longer be able to offer these as an amenity as they seem to disappear easily.  Please accept my sincere apologies and $15 dollars towards any video games you decide to rent.

We sincerely hope, that despite these disappoinments, you still enjoy your stay in our home as we enjoy sharing it with you."_

When people run businesses the business and product are always subject to human error. As part of a family business, I can attest that no matter how hard you try, a mistake can be made.  What seperates a great business from the rest is how those mistakes are handled.  My impression from the OP, is that she has been more concerned with how the situation has been handled since she voiced her concerns.


----------



## connorlevismom

Lewisc said:


> But not necessarily a game a parent would let their kids play (rating) or a game the kids would enjoy playing.  A private owner says there is a game console.  I'd plan on bringing games, renting games or specifically asking what titles they have. $45 to cover the cost of renting the grill would be fair compensation if the OP rented a grill. The OP talked about looking forward to grilling. Why didn't they rent a grill?
> 
> I agree the owner sounds like a jerk.  It sounds like the OP deserves a rebate.  I think some posters are suggesting asking for an amount which is high (JMO).
> 
> I think this is one of the issues when you rent from a private person.



I did not rent a grill because I did not know it was an option. The owner never mentioned it and the manager of the management company never mentioned it. Had I known - we might have done that. But I was met with a "it was gross so we removed it" and a "you should not have expected it to be there". Never, ever, mentioned renting one. It never occured to me since this was my first time renting a home.



mouseketeer_mom said:


> I could be wrong, but I think the entire situation could have been avoided if the owners response had been different from the very beginning. Maybe $50 to $75 would have been more than adequate if it had been approached from a different perspective.
> 
> Response from the owner might have been....
> 
> _"I'm so sorry the cleanliness of the home did not meet with your expectations, I will contact the management company immediately and request that your concerns are addressed at the earlest possible time. I am embarassed that our home is anything but clean.
> 
> I also apologize that the grill has recently become inoperable and we have not had an opportunity to replace it.  As I am sure you must have had plans to use it, I will contact ABC rentals and arrange for the rental of a grill for the duration of your stay.
> 
> Lastly, I completely share your frustrations regarding the missing video games.  We too enjoyed having them in the home. Unfortunately, we will likely no longer be able to offer these as an amenity as they seem to disappear easily.  Please accept my sincere apologies and $15 dollars towards any video games you decide to rent.
> 
> We sincerely hope, that despite these disappoinments, you still enjoy your stay in our home as we enjoy sharing it with you."_
> 
> When people run businesses the business and product are always subject to human error. As part of a family business, I can attest that no matter how hard you try, a mistake can be made.  What seperates a great business from the rest is how those mistakes are handled.  My impression from the OP, is that she has been more concerned with how the situation has been handled since she voiced her concerns.



You are 100% correct. This is about the owner and her repsonse to me from the very beginning. From the first email when I had just checked into the home I was called a liar and was treated rudely. To the very last email from her threatening to sue me.


----------



## Brook730

wow I just found this thread last night and read all the way through. I'm sorry you experience was so bad. I am glad tho that the other places you rented from then were good tho at least it was not all bad. Yeah the owner could of handled that completely different and in a way that made you both happy. I too would of expected there to be some games but depending on the age of my kid when I went I would just bring a game or two of theirs but as you said you don't have those systems so why would you of went out and bought games just for that. Well I hope the owner just leaves you alone about it and does not make things any worse for her self because right now she seems like a little bit of a nut job.


----------



## Lizzybean

O. M. G. I remember reading this thread last month but it was only 2 or 3 pages. I am so sorry you dealt with this OP. I think a pp who wrote out  what the owner should've said and done was right on point. You catch flies with honey, not vinegar. And the whole "Kathy" person Internet stalking you?! Let's just say I bet the ip addy from her posts here would be an exact match to ip from the owner's emails to you. 

You did the right thing and I'm glad you weren't intimidated by some wingnut who threatened to sue you. Too bad case law isn't in her favor--but hey if she wants to waste thousands of dollars in small claims court, let her! Karma!

If I was staying somewhere and it was filled with toenail clippings and private area hair you best believe we'd have a problem. Asking for 15% of your total for having to deal with that is more than reasonable. The BBQ and game consoles are a whole other issue. She should've rented the BBQ for you and paid for it. 

Also, just wanted to say I don't think you're picky. I can't understand anyone who who would be comfortable with strangers' "hair" all over bathrooms or find that acceptable. GROSS! The management company has a responsibility to clean the home. Period. The owner needs to realize buck stops with her. Period.


----------



## lampshadehead

Notice how this "kathryn" or whatever her name is, used the word "holiday" for vacation. Sounds like this "kathryn" could be from the UK? Coincidence?Hmmmmm


----------



## lampshadehead

Holiday Hounds 
Well, fancy that!


----------



## connorlevismom

lampshadehead said:


> Holiday Hounds
> Well, fancy that!



I don't even know what that term means! 

Good catch on that one!


----------



## robinb

lampshadehead said:


> Notice how this "kathryn" or whatever her name is, used the word "holiday" for vacation. Sounds like this "kathryn" could be from the UK? Coincidence?Hmmmmm


Canadians also say "holiday" and Kathryn is from Canada.



connorlevismom said:


> I don't even know what that term means!
> 
> Good catch on that one!


I believe that it means someone who finds something to complain about on a vacation (holiday) to get a discount or refund.


----------



## lampshadehead

Oh ok darn there goes my conspiracy theory LOL (but I still think they are one in the same, or at least related somehow).


----------



## lampshadehead

Honestly, I prefer the term "vacation varmints".


----------



## robinb

lampshadehead said:


> Oh ok darn there goes my conspiracy theory LOL (but I still think they are one in the same, or at least related somehow).


Katheryn is definitely a friend of the owner.  She says as much in her Trip Advisor rebuttal to the OP's complaint post.


----------



## connorlevismom

[/QUOTE]
I believe that it means someone who finds something to complain about on a vacation (holiday) to get a discount or refund.[/QUOTE]

Ahhh OK. Well - I am not that, but at least I know what the term means. Could have been worse!


----------



## connorlevismom

robinb said:


> Katheryn is definitely a friend of the owner.  She says as much in her Trip Advisor rebuttal to the OP's complaint post.



I agree. I don't think she is the owner, but I think she is somone that owner sent after me.

But that means there is not just one crazy person in the mix, there are two!


----------



## lampshadehead

connorlevismom said:


> I agree. I don't think she is the owner, but I think she is somone that owner sent after me.
> 
> But that means there is not just one crazy person in the mix, there are two!



Ha! A little disturbing right?
 Maybe kathryn is the hair and toenail dropper, since she does seem to have access to the home mentioning she had been there after the OP and in September.


----------



## connorlevismom

lampshadehead said:


> Ha! A little disturbing right?
> Maybe kathryn is the hair and toenail dropper, since she does seem to have access to the home mentioning she had been there after the OP and in September.



LOL Maybe. Could be why she seemed so offended that I said there was pubic hair on the carpet. Most people get grossed out by that - but she did seem very offended by the fact that I said it was there.


----------



## lampshadehead

connorlevismom said:


> LOL Maybe. Could be why she seemed so offended that I said there was pubic hair on the carpet. Most people get grossed out by that - but she did seem very offended by the fact that I said it was there.



I say Kathryn has keys to her friends place and is using it for a crash pad and maybe some extracurricular activites, possibly under the guise of helping out? Shes probably sitting there playing those PS3 games talking to the owner on the phone like "Oh I know can you believe the gall of some people? Don't worry my friend I will go over and fix that microwave up for ya!"


----------



## aaarcher86

This thread is a gem.  Kathryn is just the right kind of looney tune to make threads like this sparkle humor.

Op - sorry for your irritations!!!  Hopefully things are dying down for you!


----------



## connorlevismom

aaarcher86 said:


> This thread is a gem.  Kathryn is just the right kind of looney tune to make threads like this sparkle humor.
> 
> Op - sorry for your irritations!!!  Hopefully things are dying down for you!



Yes, things are much better. I have not heard from the owner or Kathryn since Kathryn's email attacking me. Hopefully they both learned their lesson but something tells me they did not. I just hope I don't see someone here or elsewhere that has the same issues that I did. It was unfortunate and it makes me shy away from renting again.


----------



## shalom

Kathryn19007 said:


> If the BBQ was so important to you, why didn't you just rent one from the management company as I know for a fact that they rent them for a very reasonable rate, full tank of propane and all! Might have cost you an additional $45 at most! Big deal when you are on a Disney Vacation.... $45 doesn't even buy you LUNCH on site for two people!!



IMHO, the "it's not a big deal" argument is nearly always ironic, and never intended to be so.  If it's not a big deal, and if $45 is such a paltry sum, then why didn't the _owner_ take care of it and pay it?  It's not a big deal for the renter to do it, but it's much too big a hassle for the owner to bother with?  Yeah, that's logical.  

Really, it doesn't matter how big a deal it is -- the owner has the responsibility to provide what was promised.  The renter has _no_ responsibility to provide what the owner promised.  Anytime the owner decides they can just hand their responsibility over to the _person paying them to do it_, it's a big deal.  It's not a big deal compared to getting hit by a hurricane, but it's a big deal in the rental world, and owners who keep up that practice tend to end up renting mostly to pals who get big discounts.




connorlevismom said:


> But that means there is not just one crazy person in the mix, there are two!



Still true that birds of a feather flock together, I guess.


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## Disney_Princess83

There are no words. Just read this entire post thread but Kathryn's post takes the cake. 

So sorry the OP has had so many problems. 



thumbalyna said:


> Funny how Kathryn19007 never posted on this forum before, is the exact guest who stayed in the rental immediately upon OP departing and the rental was amazing.
> 
> I find it funny how she mentions a damaged microwave, is she trying to say not only did OP break it but she rigged it back up so you couldn't notice the glass was no longer in the door!
> 
> I writes reviews on TA whether good or bad. I think that nice middle of the road reviews mean more when i travel than bad or great reviews.
> 
> Whoever Kathryn190007 is obviously has too much time on her hands if she is stalking OP to see where she is posting reviews at.


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## counteroffer

I just read this whole thing and all I can say is - wow. I cannot believe the arrogance and rudenss of this owner.


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## Sparkly

If ever there was a thread I wished I had popcorn for, it's this one. Unbelievable!


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## candizfan

Hopefully the owner has not had more contact with you.  If she does, you need to report her to the authorities as she seems unstable to me.

Good luck with your next vacation rental.


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## big303842

long time lurker first time poster..



wow........


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## Floridagram

I read the initial post and then skipped to the last page because I could not believe this thread went to 10 pages.  Now that I read the last page I am going to read the middle.

Sorry to OP that you had such a bad experience with your rental, perhaps it would be better to rent a time share directly from the establishment so at least there would be some accountability.  I hope your vacation other than the house was a good time.


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## connorlevismom

candizfan said:


> Hopefully the owner has not had more contact with you.  If she does, you need to report her to the authorities as she seems unstable to me.
> 
> Good luck with your next vacation rental.



She has not contracted me again and neither has "Kathy". I hope the owner learned her lesson and learns to treat renters better. But I just looked on her website and the grill is still on it, so either she bought a new one or she did not learn anything.

It is just to bad that it had to go down like it did.


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## brucerob62

did this owner have references? when we go off site i always ask for them. I have never had a problem. Hopefully this is a rare instance if this owner has rented before.


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## connorlevismom

brucerob62 said:


> did this owner have references? when we go off site i always ask for them. I have never had a problem. Hopefully this is a rare instance if this owner has rented before.



I looked at her online reviews and it all seemed legit. It was my first time renting a house so I thought I did all my research that I needed to do. I checked out her management company and they were good, but she switched bewteen the time I rented and the time we actually stayed and I did not know that. 

It was just one of those things were I got a really bad owner and paid the price for it. But I also rented 3 other homes at the same time (we had a family reunion down there) and had absolutely no issues with those. So it was just a bad apple.


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## SunkistJoy

connorlevismom said:


> I looked at her online reviews and it all seemed legit. It was my first time renting a house so I thought I did all my research that I needed to do. I checked out her management company and they were good, but she switched bewteen the time I rented and the time we actually stayed and I did not know that.
> 
> It was just one of those things were I got a really bad owner and paid the price for it. But I also rented 3 other homes at the same time (we had a family reunion down there) and had absolutely no issues with those. So it was just a bad apple.



Would you mind posting the names of the other 3 homes you rented? We are looking for a home for Sept or Oct and would love to know which ones are good. Thanks to your heads up we definitely know who to stay away from!


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## connorlevismom

SunkistJoy said:


> Would you mind posting the names of the other 3 homes you rented? We are looking for a home for Sept or Oct and would love to know which ones are good. Thanks to your heads up we definitely know who to stay away from!



Sure!

Laughing Place  - Beth Stec, owner.
This is a 4 bedroom house and was great. The owner is amazing and extremely easy to work with. We are renting from her again next month. She also owns 2 townhomes in Windsor Hills. Home is managed by Florida Sun.
http://www.laughingplacevilla.com/

Magic Palace - Rita Smith
This is a 5 bedroom house. The layout was a little strange - but the house was clean and Rita was pleasant to work with.
http://www.themagicorlandorental.com/magicpalace

Tinkerbells Retreat
This is a 6 bedroom home, but the owners also own a 4 bedroom house as well. It was very clean and managed by Magical Vacation Homes.
http://www.windsorwonderland.com/#

If you have any questions about any of them, please let me know. I am more than happy to help!


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## nugov2

Wow...thanks for the naptime entertainment   What a nut.  Glad this got bumped up so others will not rent from her.  We are renting from WH in June, but thankfully not from her!


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## ABtwinmommy

Wow.

Thank you for the review ..... And the subsequent entertainment 

I must say, the owner's response and reaction to the situation including the "reviews submitted by owner" and the whole "Kathryn" thing was just  and 10x more of a reason to NEVER EVER rent that property than the original issue in the first place. Your issues were completely valid but I don't think the owner could have handled it worse. That was... special.


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## mamabear0222

Wow I read this a while back. Thanks to Kathryn I don't think many people here will risk renting from this person.  A whole lot of crazy. BUMP This one should be a sticky!!!

Sent from my Samsung S3 using DISBoards


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## SunkistJoy

connorlevismom said:


> If you have any questions about any of them, please let me know. I am more than happy to help!



Thank you! I will look into each of these.


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## mrsklamc

SunkistJoy said:


> Would you mind posting the names of the other 3 homes you rented? We are looking for a home for Sept or Oct and would love to know which ones are good. Thanks to your heads up we definitely know who to stay away from!



We had great experiences with 5mins2disney and romancing the mouse.


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## coastgirl

lampshadehead said:


> Notice how this "kathryn" or whatever her name is, used the word "holiday" for vacation. Sounds like this "kathryn" could be from the UK? Coincidence?Hmmmmm



LOL, good catch, thank you!  I was more than a little chagrined that she claimed to be Canadian. 

We also rented our first house with a game console we couldn't get to work/no useful games.  (And it was also a system we don't have, which added novelty value.)  Next time I'll ask first.  But if owners want to rent directly, they should have the customer service skills to make sure renters understand what they're getting, not see how little they can get away with.  Fortunately there weren't other major issues, and the owner and mgmt co were very responsive when we had difficulties with the internet, for instance. I think that's the difference.  A reasonable work-with-you response keeps things from getting worse.

But clearly this owner doesn't have those skills!


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## SunkistJoy

mrsklamc said:


> We had great experiences with 5mins2disney and romancing the mouse.



Thank you! Romancing the Mouse is my front runner right now. We are waiting to see which week my dh gets vacation before we can book. Since we are a party of 9 (my parents going also), there is only one RtM home we will fit in. So I'm looking for backups...and/or an even better deal! Decisions, decisions...


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## hoff41

Bump. Best thread ever


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## Disneymom2kiddos

I came on here looking for info on WH, but this was AWESOME!!    BEST THREAD EVER!!  Plus, thanks for the info on different places to stay!


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## brunette8706

Hi OP!

I am for a loss of words!  I'm so sorry about the fiasco from this woman.

And to think she gets $1600.00 A WEEK for her home is ridiculous!  

Hope you have a better time finding another vacation rental.  I'll be sure to put this on my NO list! LOLOL!

Brunette


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## Sunnywho

All this aggravation could have been avoided through a $45 grill rental and a $20 offsite games rental! For lack of $65 and some manners, who knows how much business she has lost.


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## Ametista

I have been thinking a lot about this thread because it bothers me. Now, I can see being disappointed by the Playstation not having games, but honestly, I can't imagine that it would be possible to keep them from being stolen. My own son did not take very good care of games on disks, so how would vacationing kids treat them? That goes for the system remotes too ($50/each every time to replace?). The barbecue, well, they should quit advertising it. 

But what gets me is this: I have been to many, many resorts and hotels where some great advertised feature wasn't working. For instance, we went to Cozumel and the hot tubs weren't heated/were broken. One trip to Orlando the water slide at our resort was broken. At another one the pool heat wasn't working. One place advertised three bedrooms but the third was barely larger than a closet and you couldn't even get the door all the way open because the bed was in the way. At one resort the spa/shower setup was like a death trap because the shower sprayed water all over the tile floor no matter what you did. 

My point is, you will find a complaint at EVERY place you stay, but do you demand to be compensated or want your money back for it? Or is it maybe easier to just go after a private property owner and threaten to leave bad feedback and destroy their small business? I just don't think the fact that games and a barbecue were missing warrant this thread.

And if the barbecue HAD been there, who do you think would have cleaned it? I doubt anybody would, which is probably why it ended up in the trash. Unless they could find guests willing to pay an extra $20 cleaning fee for the barbecue?


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## "Cinder" Ella's Mom

Ametista said:


> I have been thinking a lot about this thread because it bothers me. Now, I can see being disappointed by the Playstation not having games, but honestly, I can't imagine that it would be possible to keep them from being stolen. My own son did not take very good care of games on disks, so how would vacationing kids treat them? That goes for the system remotes too ($50/each every time to replace?). The barbecue, well, they should quit advertising it.
> 
> But what gets me is this: I have been to many, many resorts and hotels where some great advertised feature wasn't working. For instance, we went to Cozumel and the hot tubs weren't heated/were broken. One trip to Orlando the water slide at our resort was broken. At another one the pool heat wasn't working. One place advertised three bedrooms but the third was barely larger than a closet and you couldn't even get the door all the way open because the bed was in the way. At one resort the spa/shower setup was like a death trap because the shower sprayed water all over the tile floor no matter what you did.
> 
> My point is, you will find a complaint at EVERY place you stay, but do you demand to be compensated or want your money back for it? Or is it maybe easier to just go after a private property owner and threaten to leave bad feedback and destroy their small business? I just don't think the fact that games and a barbecue were missing warrant this thread.
> 
> And if the barbecue HAD been there, who do you think would have cleaned it? I doubt anybody would, which is probably why it ended up in the trash. Unless they could find guests willing to pay an extra $20 cleaning fee for the barbecue?



That is why you hire a management company. They inspect the home and charge the previous tenant if items are missing (video games). Then they replace them with that money. Every house should have a before and after checklist. They also contract cleaners who clean the home and grill. If you as an owner want positive feedback, either hire a reputable management company you can trust or be ready to make it right. When many other properties charge for the use of a grill, having one included factors into your decision to rent a property. Knowingly lying and saying you have one is not acceptable.


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## mrsklamc

Ametista said:


> I
> But what gets me is this: I have been to many, many resorts and hotels where some great advertised feature wasn't working.
> 
> My point is, you will find a complaint at EVERY place you stay, but do you demand to be compensated or want your money back for it? Or is it maybe easier to just go after a private property owner and threaten to leave bad feedback and destroy their small business? I just don't think the fact that games and a barbecue were missing warrant this thread.



What matters is 1) what the issue is and 2) how it is handled. If I am planning on grilling a lot, a missing grill could destroy my food budget. (our last trip was 11 people so messing up a meal could cost a lot of $.) Additionally, it seems this owner has known for awhile the grill is missing but chooses to keep advertising (which you acknowledged she should not do.) And the video games are a no-brainer- you check after each guest, and if they are stolen you buy new ones out of their security deposit. (That's what a security deposit is for- a practice also followed by hotels. ) But the biggest issue is how this was handled. An apology rather than acting like either a brat or a psychopath- take your pick- would have gone a long way.

And yes, if the issue was big enough I would complain to a hotel as well.


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## hoff41

Bump. Just love this thread will bump to keep places like this from messesing with potential clients


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## SevenWonkas

Occasional lurker, first time poster... Just perusing the boards and saw this thread.  Thought I would bump it.  I agree with some previously posters, that the biggest issue here is how the owner handled the situation....


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## ConvenientTruth

This is rather comical.....how much of a refund were you expecting....No vidya games and lack of grill that can be rented for about $50....

Before renting did you confirm those things were available?

Did you ask what games were available to ensure they were age appropriate for your child?

Do you own said systems at home?  If so why not brings games with you?  Why trust the owner would have something your children would want to play?  Would you have complained if they has games your children did not like?

This seems like one of the lamest complaints possible and your own fault for not confirming certain things before renting. 

How to resolve, file complaint, rent a grill and vow never to rent from them again.


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## TheShea's

What a great thread. Sorry for hte OP who had to have a lousy rental and even lousier owner who didn't tend to the issues. 

And like another poster said upthread, I too read the negative reviews first when renting property or researching a hotel. Wade through the chronic complainers and you'll typically see some patterns and the "truth" of what a property is really like and how the owners/managers deal with issues.

And this should be a lesson to the owner. Don't create an alt and post opposing veiws on a review website. Your property and the negative reviews associated with it are just getting bumped to the top.


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## njgrl622

*bump*

O....M....G......

I started reading this thread and couldn't stop until I read it all!


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## Foxxie52

OMG! To think I missed Jeremy Kyle this morning! This thread makes up for it! Brilliant! BUMP! BUMP! BUMP!


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## dsnycrzy

I am speechless!!!! I have a teenage son & daughter as well as a 10 yr old daughter. When doing an agreement I was asked to list their names and ages. One would hope one of the reasons would be for gaming titles. My son is completely addicted to his PS3 so at the very least he would have brought his 1 game & microphone etc. But would have expected other titles there if it was advertised. As for the grill, I just looked as well & it is STILL in the pictures!!! I always check out the living quarters before I head to the local Walmart for groceries so I would NOT have brought back good for the grill. This owner & her attitude was all sorts of wrong & I would have wanted some money back! Her & Kathryn007 can split it since its not a big deal to her either.☺


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## LikeSeriously

jensen said:
			
		

> Freedom of speech does not preclude you from being sued for libel. If you post something online that you have no proof of, then you could be held liable for false statements.
> 
> So far, the only thing she's told us about that can be proven is that there was no grill. If she has photographs of bugs, nail clippings and hair, then she can be comfortable posting those. If not, then tread lightly...
> 
> If I were this renter, I'd drop this and move on.



Actually, the bugs and bathroom problems are the only thing she doesn't have proof of. She has emails from the owner stating that they knew the games were stolen and did not bother to tell her that before her stay.


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## connorlevismom

LikeSeriously said:


> Actually, the bugs and bathroom problems are the only thing she doesn't have proof of. She has emails from the owner stating that they knew the games were stolen and did not bother to tell her that before her stay.



- and the emails telling me they got rid of the grill with no plans to replace it.

- and the emails telling me she removed ALL advertising of the grill (clearly not).

-and the email telling me she was going to sue me if I wrote a negative review.

I kept everything and have no plans on getting rid of them. I don't trust this owner and would not put it past her to try and come after me at some point.


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## mrsklamc

And the crazy posts on this thread.


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## princess aleya

I just found your thread today. I can't believe this, I can't imagine what you guys went through there while on your vacation.  It's a shame really, because a lot of people like myself base where I'm going to stay off of different reviews and pictures that are on line.  I hate when people put old dated pictures on their sites to get you there and when you do it's a completely different story.


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## fitmom3

I had a bad experience at WH with a management company a couple of years ago.  It makes me upset when I hear about this.  We all pay money and deserve a nice holiday with customer service.  This makes me not want to fork out money for a vacation.  I did have a good experience the first time renting from Dave Robisnon.  He was highly recommended on this board.  I will only go with recommended owners.

To the posters that think the OP should have asked about the video games and grill.  That is just nonsense!  Why should you have to ask when it is listed on the site?  Does this mean you have to ask if there is a king size bed, pool etc?????  If the items are NOT included they should not be listed!  That is 100% false advertising.  OP I am 100% on your side!


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## momofEAP

I, too went to the ad and noticed that the grill and game systems were still there.  BUT, when you click on them they both have notes.  The grill said something to the effect that one will be rented for you.  The systems say that you will need to provide the games.  (I think that is what it said.)  At least it seems that she has changed those.  I never would have thought that it would be necessary to make sure that the mc would be available on week-ends!  That just totally creeps me out!  YUCK!


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## hoff41

Bumping again


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## It'sWDW4me

I do believe a bump is in order


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## choppee

wowzers! this thread is incredible! i rent from folks all the time and have always had great results. can you please let me know specifically the one to avoid in wh? thanks....


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## robinb

choppee said:


> wowzers! this thread is incredible! i rent from folks all the time and have always had great results. can you please let me know specifically the one to avoid in wh? thanks....



Read the whole thread. The OP mentions the name along the way.


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## jaykorf001

Ametista said:


> I have been thinking a lot about this thread because it bothers me. Now, I can see being disappointed by the Playstation not having games, but honestly, I can't imagine that it would be possible to keep them from being stolen. My own son did not take very good care of games on disks, so how would vacationing kids treat them? That goes for the system remotes too ($50/each every time to replace?). The barbecue, well, they should quit advertising it.
> 
> But what gets me is this: I have been to many, many resorts and hotels where some great advertised feature wasn't working. For instance, we went to Cozumel and the hot tubs weren't heated/were broken. One trip to Orlando the water slide at our resort was broken. At another one the pool heat wasn't working. One place advertised three bedrooms but the third was barely larger than a closet and you couldn't even get the door all the way open because the bed was in the way. At one resort the spa/shower setup was like a death trap because the shower sprayed water all over the tile floor no matter what you did.
> 
> My point is, you will find a complaint at EVERY place you stay, but do you demand to be compensated or want your money back for it? Or is it maybe easier to just go after a private property owner and threaten to leave bad feedback and destroy their small business? I just don't think the fact that games and a barbecue were missing warrant this thread.
> 
> And if the barbecue HAD been there, who do you think would have cleaned it? I doubt anybody would, which is probably why it ended up in the trash. Unless they could find guests willing to pay an extra $20 cleaning fee for the barbecue?



I've read this entire thread (great stuff!) and several people have indicated they've rented at WH and games where always included. So this seems to be fairly common practice. It's the management company's responsibility to ensure all the games et al are present or charge the previous renter and replace them. 

A grill would be a requirement if I were renting a home and I guarantee I would complain if it was missing. 

But I think the OP's point is more how the owner handled these issues -- this far overshadowed the issues in and of themselves. I'm not sure what kind of refund I'd have asked for, if any, but I'd have brought these things to the owner's attention and would have been upset with how she handled the matters.


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## MinnieLovesMickey12

BUMP. I am curious how this property is listed on Trip Advisor and what the homeaway house listing number is. I would like to go read the reviews others have posted on this property.


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## mrsklamc

It's easy enough to find if you google it- and sure, there are lots of positive reviews but they are almost all entered by the homeowner so you aren't getting a balanced picture. There are so many other good homeowners in WH there's no reason to risk it.


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## sersee05

Was looking through to research reputable management companies and came across this thread...

omg. best. thread. ever.


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## MakiraMarlena

connorlevismom said:


> GET THIS! She threatened to SUE ME if I write a bad review. Here is her threat: _Should I find any negative comments anywhere re our house from you or anyone associated with you I will put it straight into the hands of our US business attorney as this is called liable in the UK and is completely unfounded._



As if UK law were applicable.


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## Eaglefan9727

I just found your thread today and if it was me in your situation. I would have asked for every dime back. When someone advertises something no matter if it is in a store, a rental vacation, or anything else for that matter. I expect to get what is advertised and nothing else.


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