# Disney Genie announcement



## Cliffside

Just read on CNBC that Disney released info on the Genie…I have not been following this all along but it seems like it’s coming now


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## thanxfornoticin

So here it comes?  At least we'll have something to talk about on the forums!!


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## scrappinginontario

*Introducing Disney Genie*


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## Cliffside

It says for $15 per ticket at DW and $20 a day at DL guests can use the new lightening lane at select attractions….if it’s $15 for all day fine it doesn’t seems like it’s per attraction like in Disneyland Paris


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## asumom

Hope it's after I visit in September.


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## Chavaleh

Cliffside said:


> $15 for all day fine it doesn’t seems like it’s per attraction



Looks like there's that too? I'm not sure how it works. 


*Individual attraction selections (available for purchase):* Schedule a time to arrive at up to two highly demanded attractions each day using the Lightning Lane entrance – like Seven Dwarfs Mine Train at Magic Kingdom Park and Radiator Springs Racers at Disney California Adventure park (subject to limited availability; attractions not included with Disney Genie+). Pricing for this option will vary by date, attraction and park and will be announced closer to launch.


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## elgerber

If I read it the same way, $15 per person per day? I am good with that!


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## Chuck96

I'm certain the devil will be in the details.  $15 a day sounds like it lets you choose a single ride (probably among a tiered selection) at a time.  Individual Attractions is where the "whales" come in.  I'm going in a month.  Not certain if I want this to start before or after I go.


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## cbianco96

Cliffside said:


> It says for $15 per ticket at DW and $20 a day at DL guests can use the new lightening lane at select attractions….if it’s $15 for all day fine it doesn’t seems like it’s per attraction like in Disneyland Paris





> _Individual attraction selections (available for purchase):_ Schedule a time to arrive at up to two highly demanded attractions each day using the Lightning Lane entrance – like Seven Dwarfs Mine Train at Magic Kingdom Park and Radiator Springs Racers at Disney California Adventure park (subject to limited availability; attractions not included with Disney Genie+). Pricing for this option will vary by date, attraction and park and will be announced closer to launch.


E-Tickets will be extra, and likely will be priced individually.


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## Cliffside

Chavaleh said:


> Looks like there's that too? I'm not sure how it works.
> 
> 
> *Individual attraction selections (available for purchase):* Schedule a time to arrive at up to two highly demanded attractions each day using the Lightning Lane entrance – like Seven Dwarfs Mine Train at Magic Kingdom Park and Radiator Springs Racers at Disney California Adventure park (subject to limited availability; attractions not included with Disney Genie+). Pricing for this option will vary by date, attraction and park and will be announced closer to launch.


Yes…I guess i didn’t read far enough…UGH!!!


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## MikeOhio

The $15 per person will only let you book tier 2 attractions.  Tier 1 attractions will be priced separately based on surge pricing.


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## SealedSeven

Disneyland is $20 a day and includes photopass.... WDW continues to squeeze money out by keeping that separate

$15 a day seems fine, but it's per guest. so $15 x 5 days x 8 guests (my next trip example) = $600 extra dollars for the trip....


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## Cliffside

I wonder how much E ticket individual rides will be…I bet they will tier it depending on the crowd predicted for the day like tickets are.


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## thanxfornoticin

I'm sure details will be vetted very soon, but it almost sounds like 3 tiers.  Genie (like MDE right now), Genie+ (similar to Maxpass, paying a fee for access to most, but not all attractions), and Lightning (an additional fee for up to 2 "E-Ticket" attractions per day).  I'll monitor how I might have gotten that all wrong!!  Interesting how they are coordinating DL and WDW, though.  That's not usual.


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## elgerber

Cliffside said:


> Yes…I guess i didn’t read far enough…UGH!!!


Me neither.  do we have a list of the Tiers yet?


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## Elleshoodat

elgerber said:


> If I read it the same way, $15 per person per day? I am good with that!



I am not. I will see how it plays out, but yet another charge to enjoy the parks—and even more planning—has me seriously rethinking future vacations.


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## Willow1213

Interesting.... MaxPass was a pretty great system, so I'm excited that they're building off of that platform. What I'm interested in is the Tier 1/e-ticket individual purchases. 

For our family, we ride minimal e-ticket attractions so I'm probably ok with the cost. 

Really excited about the DAS digital upgrade. It was a hassle to walk all the way to an attraction, get a return time for 45 min to an hour, then have to circle back


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## Sargeant Tibbs

And there it is. $15, with add on purchases for rides with higher demand.


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## heapmaster

Chavaleh said:


> Looks like there's that too? I'm not sure how it works.
> 
> 
> *Individual attraction selections (available for purchase):* Schedule a time to arrive at up to two highly demanded attractions each day using the Lightning Lane entrance – like Seven Dwarfs Mine Train at Magic Kingdom Park and Radiator Springs Racers at Disney California Adventure park (subject to limited availability; attractions not included with Disney Genie+). Pricing for this option will vary by date, attraction and park and will be announced closer to launch.


Ya there is Lighting Lane, which appears to be included free for one attraction at a time most likely same day, then paid the paid two options.


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## rockinrollercoasters

And no benefit for staying in a Disney hotel.


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## sponica

I'm interested to see how this will all pan out, honestly I've always accepted waiting in line as part of the deal when you go to a theme park.


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## MrWreckless

Please let this be something they save for the 50th. The last thing I want in my September trip is for tons of people to be able to lightning pass in front of me during an already long FoP or SDD line.


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## ChanaC

So it looks like it's kind of like Disneyland's old MaxPass system, but without some of the bigger attractions, but without it there is no free fastpass? If I'm reading that correctly, which I might not be.

MaxPass was great at Disneyland if you are one or two people going for one or two days. I can see this really adding up with a large party staying for a week.


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## bashuck

heapmaster said:


> Ya there is Lighting Lane, which appears to be included free for one attraction at a time most likely same day, then paid the paid two options.


Where do you read the 1st lightning lane is free?


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## Seoulbro

MikeOhio said:


> The $15 per person will only let you book tier 2 attractions.  Tier 1 attractions will be priced separately based on surge pricing.


Smuggler's Run is not tier 2.


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## scrappinginontario

I think they've found the 'sweet spot' for pricing.  Most people will be willing to pay $15/person/day for LL to avoid only using stand-by queues.  It appears it's basically FP+ at $15/day.  Personally, we'll pay it.


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## Realgrumpy

rockinrollercoasters said:


> And no benefit for staying in a Disney hotel.


I thought I read Disney resort guests could reserve at 7:00 a.m. and all other guests had to wait until they are in the park.


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## ktlm

We loved MaxPass at DLR-- hated FP+ at WDW and are okay with this EXCEPT for the fact that they have excluded some rides and are making them pay per ride.   If we are already paying $60 per day at DLR and $45 per day at WDW for 3 people, I would expect all the FP rides to be included.


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## Lehuaann

$420 for a family of 4 for 1 week adds up. Also for tier 2 rides


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## JakeAZ

scrappinginontario said:


> I think they've found the 'sweet spot' for pricing.  Most people will be willing to pay $15/person/day for LL to avoid only using stand-by queues.  It appears it's basically FP+ at $15/day.  Personally, we'll pay it.


If everyone has it, nobody has it


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## ChanaC

"These individual attraction selections will include rides like Seven Dwarfs Mine Train at Magic Kingdom. Plus, *both Rise of the Resistance at Disney’s Hollywood Studios and Remy’s Ratatouille Adventure at EPCOT (which opens on October 1st) will feature a free virtual queue and be available as a Lightning Lane attraction."
https://allears.net/2021/08/18/breaking-fastpass-will-be-discontinued-in-disney-world/*
This wording is interesting. It sounds like you may not need a boarding group/virtual queue for RorR, and just a Lighting Lane


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## JakeAZ

rockinrollercoasters said:


> And no benefit for staying in a Disney hotel.


If this holds true, it's a huge mistake.  Just stay off-site and use the savings to pay for this


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## EpcotPhoenician

I don't mind paying $15 per day. I'm assuming there will be some benefit for Guests staying at Deluxe resorts, too.

What I do mind, however, is if the app is broken upon release. Disney really needs to get it right this time around.. no excuses.. If the application is littered with bugs, there's going to be a lot of unhappy Guests in the parks.


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## asumom

Chuck96 said:


> I'm certain the devil will be in the details.  $15 a day sounds like it lets you choose a single ride (probably among a tiered selection) at a time.  Individual Attractions is where the "whales" come in.  I'm going in a month.  Not certain if I want this to start before or after I go.


After,  for me. It's already super expensive.


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## ENJDisneyFan

ChanaC said:


> "These individual attraction selections will include rides like Seven Dwarfs Mine Train at Magic Kingdom. Plus, *both Rise of the Resistance at Disney’s Hollywood Studios and Remy’s Ratatouille Adventure at EPCOT (which opens on October 1st) will feature a free virtual queue and be available as a Lightning Lane attraction."
> https://allears.net/2021/08/18/breaking-fastpass-will-be-discontinued-in-disney-world/*
> This wording is interesting. It sounds like you may not need a boarding group/virtual queue for RorR, and just a Lighting Lane


It was specifically mentioned in the parks blog that the virtual queue will stay.


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## ChanaC

What's interesting is this appears to be similar to Universal's Express Pass system, but far cheaper. Universal's Express Pass is almost like buying a second park ticket. The advantage of that though it generally the Express lines are fairly short since not many people want to pay for it or their deluxe hotels that offer the service. I can see these new Lightening/Genie lines getting really long


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## princessfionasmom

Willow1213 said:


> Interesting.... MaxPass was a pretty great system, so I'm excited that they're building off of that platform. What I'm interested in is the Tier 1/e-ticket individual purchases.
> 
> For our family, we ride minimal e-ticket attractions so I'm probably ok with the cost.
> 
> *Really excited about the DAS digital upgrade. It was a hassle to walk all the way to an attraction, get a return time for 45 min to an hour, then have to circle back*



I missed this part, where did you see that?  That would be amazing.


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## pineapplepalms

Disneyland had an AP add-on rate for MaxPass… haven’t seen anything about an AP rate for this but I really hope they have one.


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## ChanaC

ENJDisneyFan said:


> It was specifically mentioned in the parks blog that the virtual queue will stay.
> View attachment 598080


Interesting. But with the other wording, I wonder if you can now basically get a FastPass/Lightening Pass as well as a spot in the queue. For example, if you don't get a boarding group first thing in the morning it seems like you can pay for a Lightening pass and also get on.


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## ENJDisneyFan

ChanaC said:


> Interesting. But with the other wording, I wonder if you can now basically get a FastPass/Lightening Pass as well as a spot in the queue. For example, if you don't get a boarding group first thing in the morning it seems like you can pay for a Lightening pass and also get on.


I’d be shocked if that was the case.  ROTR just doesn’t have the throughput for that.  I’d assume it stays fully VQ as it is now.  But I guess you never know.


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## DisneyGirlMI

elgerber said:


> If I read it the same way, $15 per person per day? I am good with that!


It’s $15/day…unless you want to ride the big rides. Then, you get to pay even more. So I’m paying three times to ride the rides, for the ticket, for the Genie+, and for the plus to the +, or I can stand in two hour lines for every ride.  How anti-guest money grubbing can they possibly get?  No more perks (Magical Express, EMH, magic bands,free fatspasses), increase costs ridiculously and then fee on top of that…TWICE!


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## GatorChris

SO......I get to pay for FP instead of getting it free. Sounds very class-warfare.


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## VeronicaZS

So far I'm not liking what I am reading. Am I interpreting correctly that there are no longer any free FastPasses/Lighting Lanes? We normally buy 6 or 7 day tickets, for my family of 5 that will be an extra $450 to $525 for something that was essentially free. Also no magical express or magic bands. I'm really not happy with this change and will be rethinking travel plans next year.


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## JakeAZ

GatorChris said:


> SO......I get to pay for FP instead of getting it free. Sounds very class-warfare.


You get to pay for Genie+ for the privilege of paying again to ride the big rides


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## ENJDisneyFan

JakeAZ said:


> If everyone has it, nobody has it


Exactly.  I wonder if they will cap the number of passes they sell per day?  Otherwise how can they guarantee the “lightning” lane will be faster than standby?


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## White_Rabbit18

OMG... If it wasn’t already confusing enough for people to plan a holiday


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## princessfionasmom

Found the answer to my questions, here it is if anyone else is interested:
We are also making some enhancements to our Disability Access Service (DAS) program, including new options to enroll in the program pre-arrival and for DAS participants to select attractions directly in the app. These options will be available in addition to our existing, in-person DAS program. Visit our Services for Guests with Disabilities page DisneyWorld.com and Disneyland.comfor more details.

https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2021/08/introducing-disney-genie/


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## katyringo

15 per person per day at WDW. $20 at DL. Includes pictures at DL does not at WDW.

does not include some top attractions. Those will be only ala cart and can be purchased with or without genie plus.

resorts guests get to make them at 7am- day guests only once in the park.

Remy ride will be an ala cart and have a virtual que like rise.

I also thought I saw there will be a free virtual line system.. but idk where I read that.

I’m here for it. Sounds like maxpass with a twist. Loved maxpass.


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## BroadwayHermione5

Ok there are two things concerning me:
1) the “fall” date. I really don’t want to be there when the change occurs. 
2) I need someone to explain to me the difference because this is confusing. $15 per person per day doesn’t sound horrible imho. But then adding on the other rides and such I’m so confused.


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## JakeAZ

So, you can make "one at a time".  Does that mean if my next lightning pass is 3 hours from now, I can't book another one until I ride that?  The "next generation of Max Pass" sounds very restrictive.


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## ChanaC

JakeAZ said:


> If everyone has it, nobody has it



Literally my thought while reading this and your comment:


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## Dznefreek

The 15 - 20- is* for the next available time*


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## katyringo

I am 100% ready to see how the rolls
Out, learn about it, strategize with it and make it happen!


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## PlutoTheDog89

I'll hold judgement until I see exactly how it plays out, but initial gut reaction is.... Universal's pass is expensive, but you get the pass for all the attractions. This Genie+ sounds like the higher-tier attractions are gonna be priced like some sorta disney stock market—adding even more stress onto your trip and day.


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## Sargeant Tibbs

scrappinginontario said:


> I think they've found the 'sweet spot' for pricing.  Most people will be willing to pay $15/person/day for LL to avoid only using stand-by queues.  It appears it's basically FP+ at $15/day.  Personally, we'll pay it.



Yep, us too, but it's made me angry. With increased pricing and no incentives to stay on property I was already leaning towards  split Uni/WDW trips in the future, with more
time at Uni. This might finally seal the deal.


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## GatorChris

Honestly, I'm suddenly glad I cut my WDW trip in half to spend 4 days at Universal. Yeah, I know they have a pay FP system as well. But it's so pricey that hardly anyone uses it. Disney will make it just moderately priced enough that too many people will use it to make it useful, but just enough people will use it to make stand-by lines unbearable. Bad form, Disney. Bad form.


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## SealedSeven

JakeAZ said:


> So, you can make "one at a time".  Does that mean if my next lightning pass is 3 hours from now, I can't book another one until I ride that?  The "next generation of Max Pass" sounds very restrictive.



Pretty much. Could very well pay $15 and only get 2-3 rides possibly due to the restriction. Will have to see how this plays out, but if that is happening, it's not worth getting.


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## katyringo

Dznefreek said:


> The 15 - 20- is* for the next available time*


 That’s how maxpass worked and then you could make another selection 90 minutes later. It would tell you the time you could make another selection. Sometimes if your return time was right away you made a selection right after you scanned in at the ride- if your return time was later then after a set amount of time you could book another one and start banking them.  It worked well during pool breaks to start stacking them for the evening.


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## Sargeant Tibbs

PlutoTheDog89 said:


> This Genie+ sounds like the higher-tier attractions are gonna be priced like some sorta disney stock market



Let's hope it crashes.


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## wgeo

If you can only make one at a time what's the benefit to the resort guests booking at 7am?  Are these going to be very limited.  So people will be paying an upcharge of 15/person and taking only whats available?   Sounds miserable.

I can't believe how much Disney is nickel and diming everyone, its really turning me off.   SO much that used to be included is now an upcharge and there is zero reason to stay on site and pay ridiculous inflated hotel prices if there are no longer tangible benefits.


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## katyringo

JakeAZ said:


> So, you can make "one at a time".  Does that mean if my next lightning pass is 3 hours from now, I can't book another one until I ride that?  The "next generation of Max Pass" sounds very restrictive.



With maxpass you didn’t always have to wait until you rode. If your return time was far away it told you what time you could make the next choice and you could start to stack them.


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## lukemorenus

Is the $15 fee required for the full length of stay, or can you just choose certain days?


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## JakeAZ

SealedSeven said:


> it's not worth getting


I bet the purchase rate is extremely high.  You'll be a a severe disadvantage if you don't get it.  

WDW tickets just went up $15 per day


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## miss0033

GatorChris said:


> Honestly, I'm suddenly glad I cut my WDW trip in half to spend 4 days at Universal. Yeah, I know they have a pay FP system as well. But it's so pricey that hardly anyone uses it. Disney will make it just moderately priced enough that too many people will use it to make it useful, but just enough people will use it to make stand-by lines unbearable. Bad form, Disney. Bad form.



Its funny to read all the responses.  From "it is too moderately priced" to "I am already paying enough, don't nickel and dime me".  You can't please all the people all the time.


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## SealedSeven

katyringo said:


> With maxpass you didn’t always have to wait until you rode. If your return time was far away it told you what time you could make the next choice and you could start to stack them.



But that's not how it's working this time. 

"You can hold one reservation at a time, and as long as you keep using your passes (or having your time slots expire), you can add new ones throughout the day, pending availability. "

Looks to be you have to use the current pass before being able to pick another.


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## hawkmarket

All I know is if you think you are paying $60/day for a family of four and getting something of value at Disney you have lost your mind.  This will be the entry point where the pain is introduced and then to make the pain stop you're going to pay A LOT more than $15/person.


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## IAmDis

We all knew it was coming. They will find ways to squeeze the dollars from you. A family of 6, they come maybe once every 3-4 years - they will def pay $10 per person or whatever the price is to get on Flight of Passage and get on with their day. It's just another cost people will have to factor in.

I don't mind this at all. If they really wanna rake in the bucks, they'll offer whatever the top pass is with a $10 Lightening access each day. Passholders hate waiting in most lines, so I could see myself doing this, maybe not every single day I go, but enough for Disney to make an extra $50+ from each passholder if they go a few times a month.

I'm used to this as an old Max Pass guest, so this is where it's all going to trend - Paid express to the front of the line. Each guest is different and everyone's budget is different. It's not a factor for me at WDW, but it could be to visiting families. Dinner for two at Le Cellier is at least $120 without tip, so days like this, adding on the $15 or whatever per attraction for a few times each month, doesn't bother me.

Be lucky they didn't go Universal's route and just say Lightening is like $99+. Maybe in 5-10 years we'll see this as demand grows and prices/inflation rise. The days of free Fastpass are over. Confirmed!


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## PlutoTheDog89

If I'm reading this correctly, there will be "surge" pricing for bigger attractions during more crowded days (thus, my stock market analogy)

While I made the analogy as a joke, now I'm thinking about it and.... Disney is basically penalizing guests for visiting during more crowded/expensive times. You mean to tell me if I go during Christmas and pay a premium to stay on-site and visit the parks... now I gotta pay MORE to get a lightning pass to 7DMT? That...doesn't sound like it makes sense. I mean... it *does- *supply and demand, but still. It's gonna turn a lot of guests off. I may be canceling my on-site stay and spending less time at Florida.

But again... let's see how it plays out.


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## Wdw1015

Great article from DFB that breaks it all down:
https://www.disneyfoodblog.com/2021...isney-world-soon-and-its-called-disney-genie/


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## SealedSeven

JakeAZ said:


> I bet the purchase rate is extremely high.  You'll be a a severe disadvantage if you don't get it.
> 
> WDW tickets just went up $15 per day



I meant as in only able to get 2-3 passes in a full day due to reservations being filled / needing to wait for your current pass to be used to check next availability.  You'll not be able to get anything out of the pass to make it worth $15.


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## ChanaC

I guess if there is one "plus" to it it's that it seems like you can't make reservations until 7am the day of your ticket. Sounds like it will be another mad rush to everyone's phones in the morning, but I personally think it's better than planning your day 60 days in advance. I know we all know there is nothing more frustrating than seeing a fastpass you want gone weeks in advance, especially if you are staying off site or planning a last minute trip. Plus tons of people aren't on these forums, they literally show up the day of their ticket and figure things out from there. And now you can be a little more spontaneous. So... maybe a little silver lining?


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## Yardbird

Cliffside said:


> It says for $15 per ticket at DW and $20 a day at DL guests can use the new lightening lane at select attractions….if it’s $15 for all day fine it doesn’t seems like it’s per attraction like in Disneyland Paris


There's that too, an individual price for certain attractions, those will not be included in Disney Genie.


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## TropicalDIS

IAmDis said:


> Be lucky they didn't go Universal's route and just say Lightening is like $99+. Maybe in 5-10 years we'll see this as demand grows and prices/inflation rise. The days of free Fastpass are over. Confirmed!



Plenty of perks for Universals express pass though.


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## snowwhite84

MikeOhio said:


> The $15 per person will only let you book tier 2 attractions.  Tier 1 attractions will be priced separately based on surge pricing.


I’m not sure that’s true. Smugglers Run is definitely a tier 1 ride. From the Parks Blog:
“For the price of $15 per ticket per day at Walt Disney World Resort and $20 per ticket per day at Disneyland Resort, choose the next available time to arrive at a variety of attractions and experiences using the Lightning Lane entrance. You can make one selection at a time, throughout the day – from classics like Haunted Mansion to thrill rides like Big Thunder Mountain Railroad and newer favorites like _Millennium Falcon_: Smugglers Run (attractions subject to limited availability).”


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## JakeAZ

IAmDis said:


> they will def pay $10 per person or whatever the price is to get on Flight of Passage


The only way FOP will be priced at $10pp will be if the standby line is 30 minutes long....


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## robinb

I really liked Max Pass at DLR, so I think I'll like this too.  My only concern is how many E-ticket rides they will set aside per park for the surge pricing.  If it's just one or two, then I'll join the stand-by stampede at rope drop.  If it's more than that, I'm not sure what I'll do.  Be grumpy I guess because I'll be forced to stand in line.


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## JakeAZ

The rumor is the top 2 rides, in each park, will be the ala carte rides and not available with the $15 Genie+

That's fine for MK, but if you take the top 2 at the other 3 parks...there isn't much left...


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## newarknut

I just hope you don't have to purchase everyday. While I hate paying more, it might just be the natural evolution of the Fastpass system. At some point, the benefit is reduced and you need to reduce the number of users. I sincerely hope there's a DVC or AP discount available!


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## Dave006

Yardbird said:


> There's that too, an individual price for certain attractions, those will not be included in Disney Genie.


But it is only 2 Attractions at a specific time once per day.

Dave


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## cdurham1

ChanaC said:


> What's interesting is this appears to be similar to Universal's Express Pass system, but far cheaper. Universal's Express Pass is almost like buying a second park ticket. The advantage of that though it generally the Express lines are fairly short since not many people want to pay for it or their deluxe hotels that offer the service. I can see these new Lightening/Genie lines getting really long


I don't see any resemblance to Universal's Express Pass system


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## Belleandtinker

After our last visit to WDW less than a month ago, as a family we said we wouldn't go back until some sort of fasspass system was in place (as well as characters, parades and shows). The crowds were large and lines were long. Not magical. 

We have used DL Fastpass system and it worked. I also liked that we didn't have to plan our rides months in advance.

Looking forward to the reviews in the fall.


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## BroadwayHermione5

Random but will you be able to lightning pass haunted mansion and then go wait standby for Pirates? Or is it like Tapu Tapu at Volcano Bay where you wait (I never went to Disneyland bjt I heard and read that max pass was amazing but I never heard of it stacking rides or not stacking rides so to speak)


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## TheOneWithTheTriplets

SealedSeven said:


> I meant as in only able to get 2-3 passes in a full day due to reservations being filled / needing to wait for your current pass to be used to check next availability. You'll not be able to get anything out of the pass to make it worth $15.



It depends on how many rides are included in this versus having to pay individually. If these aren't the big headliners, then return times will likely be sooner, thus allowing more over the course of the day.


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## MrWreckless

This should be included for on site guests!


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## Lsdolphin

scrappinginontario said:


> I think they've found the 'sweet spot' for pricing.  Most people will be willing to pay $15/person/day for LL to avoid only using stand-by queues.  It appears it's basically FP+ at $15/day.  Personally, we'll pay it.



Doesn’t sound like the $15  includes the more popular rides....


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## Yardbird

Missing the days of the cute little paper fastpass.


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## ChanaC

cdurham1 said:


> I don't see any resemblance to Universal's Express Pass system



To be fair, I read more since making this comment. I thought you got instant access to the lightening queue, but it appears you have to make a reservation.


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## cdurham1

I think they are reserving committing to some benefit for on site guests so they can run it as a special.  Book during certain periods and enjoy Genie+ included.  Or book during certain periods and get 1 or 2 of the extra attraction credits included per day.


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## Bianca and Bernard

Sargeant Tibbs said:


> Let's hope it crashes.



It's DIsney IT.   That is guaranteed.


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## snowwhite84

MrWreckless said:


> This should be included for on site guests!


Why?


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## Cj2017

Will this start October 1st?


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## Arianabtd

I wonder how well the app itself is gonna work in general... I'm sure we are all familiar with Disney's IT


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## IAmDis

TropicalDIS said:


> Plenty of perks for Universals express pass though.


What's the perks? I've only experienced the free express on the higher tiered passes. One big gripe about Universal Express is you can't even get on Velocicoaster or Hagrid's. The two most popular rides. I'm sure in due time, they will finally add those, but still, if you're visiting and paying $99 - $230+ per person to get on all the rides and can't even get on the most popular ones, what other perks offset that?


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## ChanaC

ChanaC said:


> I guess if there is one "plus" to it it's that it seems like you can't make reservations until 7am the day of your ticket. Sounds like it will be another mad rush to everyone's phones in the morning, but I personally think it's better than planning your day 60 days in advance. I know we all know there is nothing more frustrating than seeing a fastpass you want gone weeks in advance, especially if you are staying off site or planning a last minute trip. Plus tons of people aren't on these forums, they literally show up the day of their ticket and figure things out from there. And now you can be a little more spontaneous. So... maybe a little silver lining?



Actually... contradicting myself, according to DFB "At Disney World, if you’re staying at a Disney owned and operated hotel, the Walt Disney World Swan and Dolphin, or the Shades of Green Hotel you’ll be able to make your first Individual Attraction Selection at 7AM. All other guests will have to make their selections when they enter their first park of the day."

So there is a slight advantage to resort guests. Resort guests will have to jump on their phones at 7, everyone else will have to wait another hour or two (at the earliest) when they enter the park.


----------



## JasonTCV

My non-controversial input: RIP my phone battery.

My phone battery is already dying constantly while at the parks.

Might as well just leave it plugged into a battery pack at this point


----------



## lukemorenus

MrWreckless said:


> This should be included for on site guests!



Wouldn't that lessen the value?


----------



## heapmaster

bashuck said:


> Where do you read the 1st lightning lane is free?


Its in the video and not the text. Starting at 1:29


----------



## becauseimnew

Glad we were able to squeeze in another trip before paid Fastpasses... good luck Disney, I will take my $7,000 to Europe!.


----------



## SealedSeven

MrWreckless said:


> This should be included for on site guests!



On-site would have thought perhaps get discount on +, or perhaps 1 Individual Attraction pick for free. They really are taking spikes to pop the Disney Bubble, and that's already been popped.


----------



## n2mm

Sadly, not every guest is the same. We are older and keep our APs to dine in the parks, plus ride a few attractions.  We might go to mk in the morning for 3 hours.  So buying an extra perk for the whole day when we don’t spend the whole day will not work for us.  So I guess we’ll go, ride a couple of rides via standby and call it a day.  We’ve never been all day guest even 20 years ago when we first started buying annual passes.   if you spend the entire day at a park, then you’ll feel like it’s worth it. Maybe they’ll offer a senior citizen discount


----------



## Dave006

JakeAZ said:


> You get to pay for Genie+ for the privilege of paying again to ride the big rides


No the extra price individual ride(s) are 2 per day a specific time to access via the Lightning Lane. You can still wait in line for those few select rides. 

Dave


----------



## ChanaC

Off topic but remember when Robin Williams got pissed at Disney for using the Genie image to make extra money after they promised they wouldn't?


----------



## rtravels

heapmaster said:


> Ya there is Lighting Lane, which appears to be included free for one attraction at a time most likely same day, then paid the paid two options.


That’s not it. No free option for lightning lane.


----------



## ChanaC

SealedSeven said:


> On-site would have thought perhaps get discount on +, or perhaps 1 Individual Attraction pick for free. They really are taking spikes to pop the Disney Bubble, and that's already been popped.


It appears the onsite guests will be able to make their lightening reservations at 7am while other guests have to wait until they physically enter the park, so they get an hour or two advantage.


----------



## Bianca and Bernard

Cj2017 said:


> Will this start October 1st?



Oh, that would be the perfect day for Disney IT to roll out a new system.......


----------



## pigletto

Of all the things that suck about this .. and I think we can all agree on some level that making a Disney trip more expensive sucks … getting up at 7 am every day of my vacation to pay for a chance to compete with other people for a theme park ride sounds absolutely freaking atrocious.


----------



## heapmaster

rtravels said:


> That’s not it. No free option for lightning lane.


Well then one can hope! Maybe including some kind of perk for being an on-site guest vs off-site guests.


----------



## MrWreckless

snowwhite84 said:


> Why?



On site guests used to get preferential choice on fast passes, that was included in the rate. That's gone and was replaced with nothing.


Whats going to be fun is some people will be up at 7am trying to get boarding groups but that means they miss out on getting dibs on the fast lane passes.


----------



## kilik64

Over all, not terrible for having to pay for something that was once free depending on what rides are part of the 40+.

The 7am perk for hotel guests sounds fun, now you get to stress every morning of your trip trying to get that fast pass you really want instead of that one morning 60 days before....


----------



## JakeAZ

Dave006 said:


> No the extra price individual ride(s) are 2 per day a specific time to access via the Lightning Lane. You can still wait in line for those few select rides.
> 
> Dave


Correct, but you can't pay for the specific time unless you pay for the Genie+


----------



## Lashed34

We were planning our next visit from the UK for 14 nights in resort.

This will be far too expensive for us now so WDW have lost our money.

We will go to Universal, stay at a deluxe (Much cheaper than a Disney Deluxe) and get early entry and unlimited express pass.

Sorry Disney, this whole system sucks.


----------



## kilik64

JakeAZ said:


> Correct, but you can't pay for the specific time unless you pay for the Genie+


Erroneous, you can buy the 2 LL+ without having to buy Genie+


----------



## kilik64

Dupe post


----------



## JakeAZ

kilik64 said:


> Erroneous, you can buy the 2 LL+ without having to buy Genie+


I stand corrected then.


----------



## SealedSeven

ChanaC said:


> It appears the onsite guests will be able to make their lightening reservations at 7am while other guests have to wait until they physically enter the park, so they get an hour or two advantage.



So only 1 choice before public if the pass was bought.... yay?


----------



## JakeAZ

SealedSeven said:


> So only 1 choice before public if the pass was bought.... yay?


Ya, pretty lame on-site "benefit".


----------



## KayKayJS

don’t love it. Wonder how this will work for pass holders


----------



## lukemorenus

So... how do I get a ROTR boarding group and select my first lightning lane attraction... both at exactly 7:00 am?


----------



## TheOneWithTheTriplets

SealedSeven said:


> So only 1 choice before public if the pass was bought.... yay?



Yes, but that's going to domino into your whole day. If, say, the first 90 minutes of Space are booked before the park opens, then those guests will get through and be able to book 2nd passes while off-site's are still waiting for their first reservation. Not the best perk, but it is better.


----------



## ChanaC

SealedSeven said:


> So only 1 choice before public if the pass was bought.... yay?


Yeah, one choice. Which is nice for non-property guests, but not a whole lot of value for property guests. However, I can imagine getting into Magic Kingdom at 9am and seeing something like the Seven Dwarfs passes nearly gone if it's busy and enough guests grab it ahead of time.


----------



## TropicalDIS

lukemorenus said:


> So... how do I get a ROTR boarding group and select my first lightning lane attraction... both at exactly 7:00 am?



You need your traveling partner to also be up and ready to go at 7am.


----------



## kanerf

Disney Greedie is more like it.


----------



## ChanaC

lukemorenus said:


> So... how do I get a ROTR boarding group and select my first lightning lane attraction... both at exactly 7:00 am?


Grab RotR first and hope what you want is still there after (I imagine it will be). That or grow some extra thumbs.


----------



## belle032

Overall, $15 isn't a TON of money. But is it so cheap that too many people will take advantage of it and therefore, kind of negate the whole reason for getting it in the first place?


----------



## RoseGold

7AM?  This Genie does not understand that I am on vacation.


----------



## TropicalDIS

IAmDis said:


> What's the perks? I've only experienced the free express on the higher tiered passes. One big gripe about Universal Express is you can't even get on Velocicoaster or Hagrid's. The two most popular rides. I'm sure in due time, they will finally add those, but still, if you're visiting and paying $99 - $230+ per person to get on all the rides and can't even get on the most popular ones, what other perks offset that?



Free if you stay onsite at certain hotels.  
Set price, and you know from the get go what rides you can do. 
With Genie,  it's very possible that you won't be able to do certain rides on certain days because either you can't get a Lightning Lane for it, or there are no more paid individual passes available.

Genie could be better, it could be worse, until people can use it and come to terms with it, it's only speculation.


----------



## cdurham1

Well, you have to hand it to Disney, they essentially found a way to incrementally raise ticket prices and provide something less than they did before.  They knew the price point they could charge and it won't scare off anyone.


----------



## The Mayor

Stupidest money grab from Disney since having to pay for parking at a resort. There is basically no additional overhead required for either so this is just pure profit for Chapeks bottom line. Great for investors and members of the board but not so great for the consumer. Even though vacation money is disposable income, people will eventually get tired of have to pay for more and more. It may not happen right away but people will eventually look for other options for their vacation dollars that include more perks.

This is a great opportunity for Universal to come out and further hype their amenities and blow it up Chapeks you know what!!!


----------



## JakeAZ

KayKayJS said:


> don’t love it. Wonder how this will work for pass holders


Unfortunately, it sounds like it will work by asking them to pay $15pp per day...


----------



## lukemorenus

SealedSeven said:


> So only 1 choice before public if the pass was bought.... yay?



Yes - which is the perfect head start!


----------



## kilik64

ChanaC said:


> Grab RotR first and hope what you want is still there after (I imagine it will be). That or grow some extra thumbs.


Nah Kevin Gates it

I need two phones, one for the virtual one for genie +....


----------



## Airb330

Interesting for us.
I loved old paper fast pass and the concept of MaxPass (haven’t been to DL since 2013). Got to ride a lot of rides! I was a park commando back in those days.

Hubby: He loved FP+. Nice to plan the day around. Really enjoyed when you just wanted to do 3 rides and go back to the pool, think Pandora, Everest and Kilimanjaro safaris then the rest of the day at the pool.

I am less park commando now so I was starting to really enjoy FP+ too. I don’t think I’ll like this system as much. $30 a day isn’t a lot but what value can it provide *if most people are buying it*?! It’s essentially FP with a cost then. 

Edited to add, this probably makes our decision on more DVC (GFV2)…nope.


----------



## VandVsmama

SealedSeven said:


> I meant as in only able to get 2-3 passes in a full day due to reservations being filled / needing to wait for your current pass to be used to check next availability.  You'll not be able to get anything out of the pass to make it worth $15.



That's what people used to say about FP, but if you were smart about it, you could get a lot per day.  I know we certainly did all the times we used Max Pass at DL...totally worth the $10-$20/day that we paid there every time.


----------



## luv2cheer92

Suuuuuper duper ecstatic!!! The more I read about it, the more excited I get!!


----------



## bsmcneil

TropicalDIS said:


> You need your traveling partner to also be up and ready to go at 7am.


Great for those who have them ...


----------



## zdad59

In typical Disney fashion, they made this way more complicated than it needed to be.    Except for the price, Universal got it right.   Express Pass for a particular amount.   Includes all but two newest rides (currently Velosicoaster and Hagrid Motorbike) for a fixed price, that can vary by day.    If you are in one of the three premium hotels, its included in your hotel rate.  As I noted their pricing is insane (Some days over $200 per person for an express pass) but the approach is simple and straightforward.   You don't need to be good at algebra to figure it out.

Also it's not clear if the "extra two lighting passes" for E ticket rides requires the purchase of the basic plan first.   Or can you just but the two pass plan on its own ?

Way to much to think about.


----------



## JakeAZ

belle032 said:


> Overall, $15 isn't a TON of money. But is it so cheap that too many people will take advantage of it and therefore, kind of negate the whole reason for getting it in the first place?


$15pp per day adds up.

But yes, you are correct, if it's seen as a "must have" it will be basically useless


----------



## bsmcneil

I'm super disappointed. I've felt on the fence, waiting to see what perks might be extended to on-site guests, given everything. I just don't see the point with them (WDW) any more.


----------



## MMSM

JakeAZ said:


> The rumor is the top 2 rides, in each park, will be the ala carte rides and not available with the $15 Genie+
> 
> That's fine for MK, but if you take the top 2 at the other 3 parks...there isn't much left...


I would think that SDD and Smuggleres run would be top two in HS.


----------



## Stitch813

Don’t see what could possibly go wrong


----------



## cdurham1

JakeAZ said:


> Unfortunately, it sounds like it will work by asking them to pay $15pp per day...



Idk, interesting timing they announced this before they announced new pricing on APs.  It is possible they will have a new tier AP that includes Genie+ for a substantial upcharge.

I am not familiar with the DLR programs.  Did APs there get Maxpass included?  Or did they pay for it every day they wanted it?


----------



## RoseGold

JakeAZ said:


> But yes, you are correct, if it's seen as a "must have" it will be basically useless



If everyone is using Genie, even without paying for it, Disney can actually move people around and allocate the lines correctly.  This means they can cram EVEN MORE people in.  Hooray!


----------



## luv2cheer92

SealedSeven said:


> I meant as in only able to get 2-3 passes in a full day due to reservations being filled / needing to wait for your current pass to be used to check next availability.  You'll not be able to get anything out of the pass to make it worth $15.


We would get at least 10-12 a day, some days especially at MK that number was closer to 15. I've gotten as many as 19 in one day. Even if we get a few less than our average, this is more than worth it for me.


----------



## sarbee

I can't construe any scenario in which paying $60 for my family for what used to be free is a "great new offering" as all of the PR I've just read wants to spin this.  We're paying more than double what we paid the last time we did the Christmas party.  We're paying thousands more to stay at a value resort than when we stayed at a moderate.  We don't even have the dining plan as an option.  And now I have the privilege of paying at least $360 more to not wait hours to ride Pirates but if I want the same benefit for Seven Dwarves, will need to pay even more.  This is... not magical.


----------



## JakeAZ

bsmcneil said:


> I'm super disappointed. I've felt on the fence, waiting to see what perks might be extended to on-site guests, given everything. I just don't see the point with them (WDW) any more.


So for your $1000 300sq foot room, you want more than a 2 hour head start to book 1 ride?  And we think Disney is greedy!  

*Obviously this is sarcasm.  My sarcasm font wasn't working.


----------



## Michiel

If you look closely at the longer video in the Disney Parks Blog article, you can see;

Magic Kingdom rides with separate pay for Lightning Lane:
- Space Mountain
- Seven Dwarfs Mine Train
(Could be more rides)

Magic Kingdom rides with Genie+ $ 15 per day per ticket Lightning Lane:
- Big Thunder Mountain
- Buzz Lightyear
- Haunted Mansion
- Jungle Cruise
- Astro Orbiter
- Barnstormer
- Dumbo
- Enchanted Tales Belle
- Small World
- Mad Tea Party
- Winnie the Pooh
- Pirates of the Caribbean
(And more rides not in the video)


----------



## JakeAZ

cdurham1 said:


> Idk, interesting timing they announced this before they announced new pricing on APs.  It is possible they will have a new tier AP that includes Genie+ for a substantial upcharge.
> 
> I am not familiar with the DLR programs.  Did APs there get Maxpass included?  Or did they pay for it every day they wanted it?


But they announced DL pass program a few weeks ago and Genie will be at both resorts...no mention of Genie "included"

You may be right, but I wouldn't hold your breath.


----------



## cdurham1

It sounds like Disney could use Genie to suggest "pseudo attractions" to people to get them to disperse a little more.  For example, maybe it will suggest something like "go look at the model train in Germany for 10 minutes."  I hope they do.  1. People should appreciate the details and it will help to have Genie tell them about it, but more importantly 2. It will disperse crowding


----------



## Ellie Webbs

JasonTCV said:


> My non-controversial input: RIP my phone battery.
> 
> My phone battery is already dying constantly while at the parks.
> 
> Might as well just leave it plugged into a battery pack at this point


I would say at this point carry 5/6 of them around with you at all times...


----------



## JakeAZ

Michiel said:


> Magic Kingdom rides with separate pay for Lightning Lane:
> - Space Mountain
> - Seven Dwarfs Mine Train


I can't imagine a case where I'd be extra to ride one of these 3 minute rides....especially space mountain.  Most of us have been on that ride many, many times.


----------



## honeymo78

Price point works for my family and honestly a little surprised that it wasn't more.  While I had no issue with booking FP+ in advance, I'm very happy this doesn't require advance planning as I would always book thrill rides but sometimes I wasn't up for them on the day/time I had selected months in advance.  I'm glad that my first trip with Genie+ won't be until Jan and hopefully we'll have plenty of first hand reports by then and the inevitable kinks will be worked out.


----------



## cdurham1

JakeAZ said:


> I can't imagine a case where I'd be extra to ride one of these 3 minute rides....especially space mountain.  Most of us have been on that ride many, many times.


Depending on the price, I will pay for both of them at 7am, especially if I only have one day at the park.


----------



## thedarksyde

Here is a 15 minute video on it from Disney.  




only 2 Max per day per person lightning lane individual passes. (which I like)

You get photopass at Disneyland so its pretty much maxpass.

The AI element of Disney Genie seems very good if it works.  

Overall I think this is an good as it could have been especially compared to Paris.


----------



## kilik64

I wonder if when Tron launches that'll drop Space Mountain to the lower tier included in the $15


----------



## Mike Mantis

I've read each post and a bunch of blogs since this came out a few hours ago... All I hear is "fall" as the launch date...

Next trip is October 17th, should I assume this will be live then!?!?!

While I hate that what was once free seems to have a charge now, $15 isn't all that bad. But it does seem like nickel and diming... Include it in the park ticket...


----------



## JakeAZ

cdurham1 said:


> Depending on the price, I will pay for both of them at 7am, especially if I only have one day at the park.


Just you or you and your family?

I'm thinking $25pp minimum on high demand days.  $200 for my family of 4 to ride 2 rides...in addition to park tickets?


----------



## cdurham1

honeymo78 said:


> Price point works for my family and honestly a little surprised that it wasn't more.  While I had no issue with booking FP+ in advance, I'm very happy this doesn't require advance planning as I would always book thrill rides but sometimes I wasn't up for them on the day/time I had selected months in advance.  I'm glad that my first trip with Genie+ won't be until Jan and hopefully we'll have plenty of first hand reports by then and the inevitable kinks will be worked out.


We'll see how it works out, but my general theory is the less planning is required, the less of an advantage planners (pretty much everyone on this thread) will have.


----------



## sbbwdw

So, $240 for a family of four for 4 days and that doesn’t include the best rides?! Boo!


----------



## JakeAZ

Mike Mantis said:


> I've read each post and a bunch of blogs since this came out a few hours ago... All I hear is "fall" as the launch date...
> 
> Next trip is October 17th, should I assume this will be live then!?!?!
> 
> While I hate that what was once free seems to have a charge now, $15 isn't all that bad. But it does seem like nickel and diming... Include it in the park ticket...


Oct 1 is the "magic" date for everything else.  Hard to believe this wouldn't be included.


----------



## kilik64

Mike Mantis said:


> I've read each post and a bunch of blogs since this came out a few hours ago... All I hear is "fall" as the launch date...
> 
> Next trip is October 17th, should I assume this will be live then!?!?!
> 
> While I hate that what was once free seems to have a charge now, $15 isn't all that bad. But it does seem like nickel and diming... Include it in the park ticket...


Technically fall is until 12/21 this year, so could be any time until then lol


----------



## iheartglaciers

honeymo78 said:


> Price point works for my family and honestly a little surprised that it wasn't more.  While I had no issue with booking FP+ in advance, I'm very happy this doesn't require advance planning as I would always book thrill rides but sometimes I wasn't up for them on the day/time I had selected months in advance.  I'm glad that my first trip with Genie+ won't be until Jan and hopefully we'll have plenty of first hand reports by then and the inevitable kinks will be worked out.



I think the price point is so low because it's closest to the regular FP that was free and they expect a lot of people to use it. But I'm expecting the additional cost for the the top 2 rides to be really expensive because they can't have too many people opt in or it won't work.


----------



## pinkxray

lukemorenus said:


> So... how do I get a ROTR boarding group and select my first lightning lane attraction... both at exactly 7:00 am?



This is my thought exactly.


----------



## Barbanellie

Let's say you book a ten day resort and tickets package. Do you all think we can pick and choose which days we'd add Genie+, or would it have to apply to all tickets (like hoppers)? Because if I can have days with Genie+ and days without (where I just stroll around the park, eat snacks and do shorter standby queues), I might find it interesting.


----------



## VandVsmama

We are going in Oct 2022 with some friends.  I will absolutely pay for this for our entire group of 6.  That trip is going to be a bucket list trip for the 2 friends who are going with us...they've never been to DL, we'll only be there for a week, etc.  

We used Max Pass at DL on 3 different occasions before the pandemic shut everything down.  We LOVED Max Pass.

I like how in this new system, there's no reserving your ride time 2 months in advance.  I hated that about FP+.  Preventing people from getting a ride FP before the actual day they're at the park makes it more equitable for everyone.

On the Max Pass system, what we'd do in order to take best advantage of it is this:

request a FP on the DL app using our Max Pass for all of our tickets.
app tells you what your 1-hr return window is.
go to the ride during that return window.
after you've scanned your ticket (and, thus, 'used' that FP), then while still in the FP line waiting to get on the ride, select your FP/MP for the next attraction.  Sometimes, we'd have to wait to do this after the 2nd "scan your ticket" spot (only a couple of rides at DL had that...all the rest of them were 1 ticket scan from what I remember)
app tells you what your 1 hour return window is for ride #2.
go on a different ride or do something else while you wait for return window for ride #2 to begin.
go to ride #2 during your return window.
Lather, rinse, repeat.
On one evening, ODD & I did this all evening long from about 6:30 - 11:00 pm and used 13 different FPs in that time frame.


----------



## cdurham1

JakeAZ said:


> Just you or you and your family?
> 
> I'm thinking $25pp minimum on high demand days.  $200 for my family of 4 to ride 2 rides...in addition to park tickets?


No, just me.  My family can watch and I can tell them how the rides went.    .  Jk

$25 would be pretty steep.  $10? Instantly.  $15 to $20?  Maybe if we are just there for 3 or 4 days and only have one scheduled day for MK.  I can't imagine it ever making sense at Epcot.  we'll have to see how it works out at HS and AK.


----------



## Mike Mantis

kilik64 said:


> Technically fall is until 12/21 this year, so could be any time until then lol



HA ha... That is exactly what I'm thinking... 10/1...

Honestly do not want to be the guiniey pig for this to launch. So many of you junkies here are better at blogging, posting trip reports, and people like me can learn from the first people to head into battle!!! 

I too am not excited about trying to book all this at 7 AM the day off. But then again I hated being locked into Fastpasses 60 days out. No pleasing me.


----------



## kilik64

iheartglaciers said:


> I think the price point is so low because it's closest to the regular FP that was free and they expect a lot of people to use it. But I'm expecting the additional cost for the the top 2 rides to be really expensive because they can't have too many people opt in or it won't work.


Its not like they will have an unlimited number of those though, they'll have some limit per window hour of the paid option same as there will be a limit per hour window for the $15 tier too.


----------



## JakeAZ

pinkxray said:


> This is my thought exactly.


You do ROR first and then Genie second.  With Genie you have your choice of a much bigger universe of rides / across multiple parks


----------



## wgeo

I honestly can't believe how many people are actually excited to Pay for something that used to be Free.


----------



## TomorrowlandKD

JakeAZ said:


> So for your $1000 300sq foot room, you want more than a 2 hour head start to book 1 ride?  And we think Disney is greedy!
> 
> *Obviously this is sarcasm.  My sarcasm font wasn't working.



Stay off site.


----------



## pinkxray

I’m so confused. So let’s say I pay the $15. I’m on site. At 7am I can book a tier 2 attraction. But I want to ride Remy. Can I book Remy at 7am and pay the extra at that point? Can I book Remy and a tier 2? What is happening ?


----------



## MediumSizedMermaid

Why would I use the all in one if it doesn't include the top tier rides? Hi MK I know how to wait for Pirates to have a 20 minute wait. Space Mountain not so much LOL. And unless the per ride one is super cheap (which it won't be) I ain't doing that either.


----------



## elgerber

lukemorenus said:


> So... how do I get a ROTR boarding group and select my first lightning lane attraction... both at exactly 7:00 am?



The good news is most everyone else will also be trying to ROTR too, so we will all be getting the other pass after LOL



Mike Mantis said:


> I've read each post and a bunch of blogs since this came out a few hours ago... All I hear is "fall" as the launch date...
> 
> Next trip is October 17th, should I assume this will be live then!?!?!
> 
> While I hate that what was once free seems to have a charge now, $15 isn't all that bad. But it does seem like nickel and diming... Include it in the park ticket...


We arrive that day too, I hope it's in effect for awhile before that so we can see how it's really working.



JakeAZ said:


> Oct 1 is the "magic" date for everything else.  Hard to believe this wouldn't be included.


I can't imagine they would roll this all out on that day, that sounds like a total recipe for disaster.


----------



## TomorrowlandKD

Folks, no one is MAKING you use this service. The entitlement is strong in this thread.


----------



## Mike Mantis

wgeo said:


> I honestly can't believe how many people are actually excited to Pay for something that used to be Free.



I do agree for the most part with your comment.

But after going to Disney many times, I found the "book 3 fastpasses 60 days out" thing to be a total pain and too restricting. You built your trip around rides that at times were spaced out too much.

If you buy into the "Genie" concept it is designed to be more intuitive, move people around the park better, and be more "spontaneous" (not saying I agree, but that looks to be the spin). 

If you do this right, and go at the right time of year. You can get 1 Lightning entry at a time and rinse and repeat a bunch... 

Time will tell. Who is signing up to rope drop the day this launches??? ;-)


----------



## Cat0727

So as of now, no benefit for staying at a Disney hotel. Ticket prices will not be reduced. I am not a fan of this and feel a little deflated. This whole thing sounds exhausting and too convoluted.


----------



## bsmcneil

JakeAZ said:


> So for your $1000 300sq foot room, you want more than a 2 hour head start to book 1 ride?  And we think Disney is greedy!
> 
> *Obviously this is sarcasm.  My sarcasm font wasn't working.


A real perk would be that I could do it the night before or something. I have two munchkins - 7am is not when I want to be stressing over some detail for the park that day!


----------



## cdurham1

MediumSizedMermaid said:


> Why would I use the all in one if it doesn't include the top tier rides? Hi MK I know how to wait for Pirates to have a 20 minute wait. Space Mountain not so much LOL. And unless the per ride one is super cheap (which it won't be) I ain't doing that either.


Bc they are going to pack so many people in the park that you will have to wait 2 hours for Barnstormer unless you have Genie+


----------



## Jonfw2

My guesses:

- it will be tough to use the $15 Genie + option more than a couple times a day. Ex: at 7am, you book smugglers run and get 9:30. You ride it, get off, and book star tours and get a time of 7pm.
- Lightening will be VERY expensive and fluctuate based on crowd levels. I’d bet that on busy days, Rise and Flight are over $100 each per person.
- there will be opportunities to get additional Lightening passes for things like club level.


----------



## Vohdre

ENJDisneyFan said:


> I’d be shocked if that was the case.  ROTR just doesn’t have the throughput for that.  I’d assume it stays fully VQ as it is now.  But I guess you never know.



If you pause the video you can see that ROTR has the ability to join the Virtual Queue and also to "buy" a Lightning Lane.


----------



## JakeAZ

bsmcneil said:


> A real perk would be that I could do it the night before or something. I have two munchkins - 7am is not when I want to be stressing over some detail for the park that day!


It should be included or heavily discounted for on-site, at the bare minimum.  Or give X number of lightning passes


----------



## raidermatt

Well, we are about to find out if there is a breaking point for enough guests for Disney to care about.  Because if this plan is widely accepted by Disney guests it will be clear even the sky is no limit for what Disney can get away with charging.  $15-$20 per day / per person is tough enough, but that doesn't even include what Disney considers to be the top two attractions in each park?  

I really thought they would make this at least in part some kind of resort amenity.  On-site guests have already lost Magical Express.  Evening extra magic hours have been scaled back and Value and Moderate guests no longer have them at all.  We have seen amenity cuts backfire in the past, but maybe people just don't care anymore.

Then there are the after hours parties which are scaled back versions of their predecessors but with significantly higher prices.

If all of this goes off without a hitch, expect more to come.


----------



## JakeAZ

Jonfw2 said:


> it will be tough to use the $15 Genie + option more than a couple times a day. Ex: at 7am, you book smugglers run and get 9:30. You ride it, get off, and book star tours and get a time of 7pm.


This could very well be true, but if that's the case, the reviews will come in hard and fast and people will stop purchasing it.


----------



## Mike Mantis

Jonfw2 said:


> My guesses:
> 
> - it will be tough to use the $15 Genie + option more than a couple times a day. Ex: at 7am, you book smugglers run and get 9:30. You ride it, get off, and book star tours and get a time of 7pm.
> - Genie ++ will be VERY expensive and fluctuate based on crowd levels. I’d bet that on busy days, Rise and Flight are over $100 each per person.
> - there will be opportunities to get additional ++ passes for things like club level.



Agree with all of the above during peak times. Off peak (just like with Fastpass) there is a POTENTIAL for being able to really get a bunch in a row. But that's an edge case I think.

I love reading the posts about "$6,000 private tours for 10 people" that pop up every so often. If people pay for those I'm sure there is a market for not waiting a single minute for an E-ticket ride.


----------



## EpcotPhoenician

TomorrowlandKD said:


> Folks, no one is MAKING you use this service. The entitlement is strong in this thread.



My thoughts exactly. Universal has been charging for their service for how long (excluding their premier resorts)? It was only a matter of time before this was coming.

I'm not OK with throwing money at Disney, but the app looks pretty neat, and if the extra revenue stream for them means being able to bring back more Cast Members post-pandemic, I'm all in.

I realize this is unpopular opinion, though.


----------



## honeymo78

TomorrowlandKD said:


> Folks, no one is MAKING you use this service. The entitlement is strong in this thread.


Very true, and while I'm 99% positive we will use it, I'm much less sure we'd pay for specific attractions.  I'm old enough to remember waiting in the standby line for everything since that's all that existed.  I've brought a book (now Kindle) on nearly every park visit since I was old enough to read.  When I mentioned Genie+ to my mom earlier tonight and said we'd likely splurge for a FOP pass since it's her favorite ride, she joked about never having a line long enough to read in.  Waiting in line isn't the worst thing in the world, at least for my family.


----------



## Jonfw2

JakeAZ said:


> This could very well be true, but if that's the case, the reviews will come in hard and fast and people will stop purchasing it.



Cedar Point charges Nearly $200 per person some days for Fast Lane.


----------



## cdurham1

With the 2k messages on the Rumors thread about paid fastpasses, none of us got this right!


----------



## Jillpie

I have never been so happy to be a DVC member as now.  I'll bypass all of this and wait till the extra magic hour nights and just go and get on everything with the stand by line.  Watch they'll figure out how to monetize that too.


----------



## bsmcneil

sbbwdw said:


> So, $240 for a family of four for 4 days and that doesn’t include the best rides?! Boo!


----------



## Mike Mantis

honeymo78 said:


> Very true, and while I'm 99% positive we will use it, I'm much less sure we'd pay for specific attractions.  I'm old enough to remember waiting in the standby line for everything since that's all that existed.  I've brought a book (now Kindle) on nearly every park visit since I was old enough to read.  When I mentioned Genie+ to my mom earlier tonight and said we'd likely splurge for a FOP pass since it's her favorite ride, she joked about never having a line long enough to read in.  Waiting in line isn't the worst thing in the world, at least for my family.




+++++ To this comment about waiting in line... Just got back from 2 trips (early June and late July) and the line waiting wasn't all that bad... It was nice to play in the Peter Pan queue for a bit... Within reason of course!!!


----------



## bsmcneil

TomorrowlandKD said:


> Folks, no one is MAKING you use this service. The entitlement is strong in this thread.


I genuinely wonder - what's an example of entitlement you've seen in this thread? I see that a lot of places but I haven't seen it here.


----------



## cdurham1

So it's basically MaxPass that won't include 1 or 2 attractions.  I have to go now and watch Maxpass YouTube videos to figure out a strategy.


----------



## disneyworldsk

Will I be allowed to use a standby line for Remy? Or is it virtual line or LL only?


----------



## JakeAZ

EpcotPhoenician said:


> My thoughts exactly. Universal has been charging for their service for how long (excluding their premier resorts)? It was only a matter of time before this was coming.


Universal's is just so much more straight forward.  "Buy this, enjoy your day"  No schedules, no constantly having to go into the app.  No up charges.

I HATE return times.  This is a paid feature that still makes you adhere to "be back at X time"


----------



## PFopma

So my take on this so far... I've already cut back on Disney trips but I'll be there for the 50th. I hope they don't try to roll this out that week - it will be a nightmare. My last 14 day trip to Europe including a 10 day cruise cost less than the 7 day WDW trip I have booked for the 50th. There is a big, beautiful world out there that is not filled with audio animatronics.


----------



## JakeAZ

cdurham1 said:


> So it's basically MaxPass that won't include 1 or 2 attractions.  I have to go now and watch Maxpass YouTube videos to figure out a strategy.


No it's not.  With Max Pass, you could hold multiple ride slots at the same time.  With Genie, you have to clear out your current one before getting a new one.


----------



## BillBrasky

Does everyone in the boat have to have paid the extra $500 to see the backside of water? Also confused about the $47 upcharge to have Mickey and friends smile during photos with my kid, will they be updating the costumes to have resting b*tch face?


----------



## kylenne

wgeo said:


> I honestly can't believe how many people are actually excited to Pay for something that used to be Free.



We paid a lot more than $15 pp per day for CL FP+s on our doomed May 2020 trip.


----------



## Dave006

disneyworldsk said:


> Will I be allowed to use a standby line for Remy? Or is it virtual line or LL only?


For now it appears Remy will be VQ or Individual Attraction LL pricing for 1 specific time per day.

Dave


----------



## aviva5675

What about AP who drive over for the day?  Not staying at a resort so not able to get 7am choices?  Give something more to AP.


----------



## JakeAZ

EpcotPhoenician said:


> and if the extra revenue stream for them means being able to bring back more Cast Members post-pandemic, I'm all in


Fixed it
and if the extra revenue stream for them means being able to pay higher executive bonuses and shareholder dividends, I'm all in


----------



## MrWreckless

sbbwdw said:


> So, $240 for a family of four for 4 days and that doesn’t include the best rides?! Boo!



You will pay to skip that 15 minute IASW queue and thank Disney for the pleasure.


----------



## disneyworldsk

Dave006 said:


> For now it appears Remy will be VQ or Individual Attraction LL pricing for 1 specific time per day.
> 
> Dave


so with no stand by line availability there's a chance you can get 'locked out' if you're not at the 7 a.m. get it time and miss it and/or if you're not willing to pay for LL and/or if you are willing to pay for LL you may not necessarily get it either, it may be 'sold out' for that day. That's awful, like Rise. you pay for a ticket, you paid, you should be able to get on any ride in the park. it's a penalty if you can't get that 7 am.


----------



## cdurham1

JakeAZ said:


> No it's not.  With Max Pass, you could hold multiple ride slots at the same time.  With Genie, you have to clear out your current one before getting a new one.


Good point.  I didn't realize that, not too familiar with Maxpass apparently


----------



## cdurham1

It's not good for planners.  The old FP+ system allowed an enormous experience spread.  People that had no idea what they were doing had a miserable time and Disney experts knew how to optimize everything and had a terrific time.  This new system will flatten that experience curve, with a significant upcharge for everyone.  It makes total sense to me if I were a Disney analyst.  But it sucks for me, personally.  There will be inefficiencies to uncover in the system as it is rolled out, but I have a feeling they won't be as great.

Along those same lines though, part of the advantage we used to have was only realized by planning more than 180 days out.  Since the advantage obtained by advanced planning is decreasing, it could actually cause me to spontaneously go with less than a week's notice.


----------



## Cj2017

Touring plans vs Genie + (inflated wait times)


----------



## disneyworldsk

This reminds me of weight watchers. Every new year they would roll out their new plan. confusing and always gave me a headache. costed me money to be a member , okay, but the constant points, this plan, this custom plan that, follow code yellow, pick code green, you get 15 points, but you get 30. it just became too much. 
headache, teethgrinding, argh....and there's probably math in this...i hate math


----------



## disneyworldsk

i guess this will ruin touring plan's business too. that's sad.


----------



## JakeAZ

disneyworldsk said:


> and there's probably math in this...i hate math


Oh there will be math...but it will be "Disney math"

If I get Genie, but also cut X,Y, Z, it will pay for itself


----------



## vwlfan

Cliffside said:


> It says for $15 per ticket at DW and $20 a day at DL guests can use the new lightening lane at select attractions….if it’s $15 for all day fine it doesn’t seems like it’s per attraction like in Disneyland Paris



my reading comprehension often fails me. I think slash hope you’re right…. Then if you want to pay for Headliners so called, yo shell out  extra for those.

does that sound right? We all knew this was inevitable. That it has finally arrived, if I understand this correctly, sounds RELATIVELY reasonable, but it still goes down my throat sideways.


----------



## disneyworldsk

i would have liked to have included a fireworks selection so i could have the option to pay for a separate viewing fireworks area without having to wait hours on the curb on main st.  and fight for a spot


----------



## Cj2017

disneyworldsk said:


> i guess this will ruin touring plan's business too. that's sad.




Probably not since Disney can't even get their wait times correct


----------



## JakeAZ

disneyworldsk said:


> i would have liked to have included a fireworks selection so i could have the option to pay for a separate viewing fireworks area without having to wait hours on the curb on main st.  and fight for a spot


Genie will grant your wish...please allow access to your mobile wallet


----------



## SealedSeven

luv2cheer92 said:


> We would get at least 10-12 a day, some days especially at MK that number was closer to 15. I've gotten as many as 19 in one day. Even if we get a few less than our average, this is more than worth it for me.



Different system, different allocations. We'll see how many people can get with genie+ and how it compares to actual lines.


----------



## Jonfw2

disneyworldsk said:


> i would have liked to have included a fireworks selection so i could have the option to pay for a separate viewing fireworks area without having to wait hours on the curb on main st.  and fight for a spot



oh that will be a whole other up charge service.


----------



## Cj2017

JakeAZ said:


> Oh there will be math...but it will be "Disney math"
> 
> If I get Genie, but also cut X,Y, Z, it will pay for itself




Yup, family just said "Lets cut out Yahtsman, eat counter service and Disney spring and use the money for Genie"


----------



## luv2cheer92

SealedSeven said:


> Different system, different allocations. We'll see how many people can get with genie+ and how it compares to actual lines.


Very true! I'm optimistic. I definitely see it being different, but I don't see it being drastic for most rides.


----------



## SealedSeven

TomorrowlandKD said:


> Folks, no one is MAKING you use this service. The entitlement is strong in this thread.



Sure, but then good luck getting more than 5 rides in a day. (Hopefully not that bad but it could be)


----------



## GatorChris

Christmas Party tickets are now $200+. You have to pay for Magical Express. Moderate resorts are $300/night. And now we have to pay $15-20 per day per person for FP. Anyone else noticing a trend? The only way to fix that trend is if people "trend" their vacations elsewhere. If we pay it, it's never leaving.


----------



## queenadnama

I purchased the MaxPass in DL strictly because it was going to be my only "bucketlist" trip to Anaheim, if not for years -- I think it was $10 for the whole day per person?

As an AP, I don't think I can justify buying a fastpass (Do you get multiple like MaxPass, one after each is done? It's so confusing.) when I've been there so many times.


----------



## DIS_MIKE

disneyworldsk said:


> i guess this will ruin touring plan's business too. that's sad.


They will have to come up with a whole new business model.


----------



## Jonfw2

I foresee every single person getting off their first ride of the day and immediately flooding whatever ride at that point has the soonest Genie+ time available.


----------



## pigletto

Cj2017 said:


> Yup, family just said "Lets cut out Yahtsman, eat counter service and Disney spring and use the money for Genie"


Yep , we had the same conversation at dinner. I’ll be damned if they get one more dime from me. I’ll just cut it from somewhere else. It’s the principal of the thing. The trip is already costing enough. I’m not paying hundreds more for what is free today.


----------



## Elle23

Whoever is at the top coming up with all of these changes has a screw loose.

We took our first WDW in January 2017 and it was incredible. We loved it so much we have gone back at least every year since (twice during Covid). The changes and losses are getting to be too much. How could such a great thing get so messed up so quickly? I really don’t get it. I am so sad.


----------



## mousefan73

News like this make me grateful for those golden years we had as a family pre Covid. Remember free resort parking, MDE, free fast passes, if lucky FD. Now pay pay pay AND while keeping every second of My well earned vacation time more glued to my frickin phone ( genie ). WDW was already a part time job planning pre trip - now it’s a full time job on your phone while in the park. I just wanted to walk in and enjoy a park with out planning everything, every second.


----------



## PFopma

JasonTCV said:


> My non-controversial input: RIP my phone battery.
> 
> My phone battery is already dying constantly while at the parks.
> 
> Might as well just leave it plugged into a battery pack at this point



And think about all the people not being able to get in their rooms at the end of the day because their phone died and the ditched the Magic Band.


----------



## JakeAZ

So photo pass is included, with Genie+, at DLR but at WDW, it's still extra?


----------



## luv2cheer92

Jonfw2 said:


> I foresee every single person getting off their first ride of the day and immediately flooding whatever ride at that point has the soonest Genie+ time available.


I would imagine it would be just like FP+ and have an allotment, so once one time slot is full, it moves to the next time slot. Just like MaxPass was too.


----------



## TwoMisfits

If it hasn't been said...

This is a way to advantage single trip guests over APs...APs can't just book 3 popular rides and hit an evening and be happy.  If they want to do that now with little wait, it will be $15/person each night (plus probably $15/ride on the biggies).  So, fewer will do it, and thus the waits go down for single trip guests to the disadvantage of APs.  

Whether you think that is good or bad probably depends on who you are...but if you're Disney, you win no matter what, so now you know why it was put in...


----------



## GeorgiaHoo

We'll almost certainly go to the Caribbean next year instead of Disney.  I keep thinking Disney is going to price us out soon and this may be it--death by a thousand cuts.

On edit--and now I have the "perk" of having to get up at 7 am on vacation to pay to ride an attraction for a trip that already cost me thousands of dollars.  Sounds magical.


----------



## luv2cheer92

JakeAZ said:


> So photo pass is included at DLR but at WDW, it's still extra?


Yes, there are other new experiences included at WDW. But DLR has far less photopass photographers and options than WDW and was included with Maxpass, so it makes sense (also makes sense why Genie+ costs a little more at DLR)


----------



## gharter

Wdw1015 said:


> Great article from DFB that breaks it all down:
> https://www.disneyfoodblog.com/2021...isney-world-soon-and-its-called-disney-genie/


Thanks, that was very helpful to explain it easily.


----------



## DIS_MIKE

GatorChris said:


> Christmas Party tickets are now $200+. You have to pay for Magical Express. Moderate resorts are $300/night. And now we have to pay $15-20 per day per person for FP. Anyone else noticing a trend? The only way to fix that trend is if people "trend" their vacations elsewhere. If we pay it, it's never leaving.


It really is something. I will miss the days (AP Life) where I could use up some airline miles and just hop on a plane to WDW and be in the parks that evening. Thankfully, I discovered cruising a few years ago, so that's where my money has gone for the most part.

This is truly the end of an era for many of us. COVID was Disney's excuse to completely revamp the system to maximize their profits and have absolute control.


----------



## tsme

Elle23 said:


> Whoever is at the top coming up with all of these changes has a screw loose.



It’s Goofy!


----------



## gharter

SealedSeven said:


> On-site would have thought perhaps get discount on +, or perhaps 1 Individual Attraction pick for free. They really are taking spikes to pop the Disney Bubble, and that's already been popped.


Agree that there should be some larger perk for spending the extra money to stay on site.  Booking 1 pass at 7 am is not a huge benefit.  I wonder if this will lower the demand for onsite stays?  It doesn't seem unreasonable to give onsite at least 2 passes to book early.


----------



## SealedSeven

"
UPDATE and important clarification: WDW resort guests will be able to reserve Lightning Lane "individual attraction selections" starting at 7am. 

HOWEVER -- there is no resort/onsite advantage for Genie+. ALL guests with Genie+ can book their first attraction starting at 7am."
>@ScottGustin

It keeps getting worse hahaha


----------



## Farro

Jonfw2 said:


> I foresee every single person getting off their first ride of the day and immediately flooding whatever ride at that point has the soonest Genie+ time available.



And that's when you choose rides with later times and go wait in regular lines.


----------



## SealedSeven

Farro said:


> And that's when you choose rides with later times and go wait in regular lines.



So you pay $15 for minimal use....


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

The biggest issue I see aside from the cost is how this is going to work at WDW where some parks have so few rides. IMO one of the reasons Maxpass at Disneyland was so awesome/efficient is that it's easy to move between parks so you have basically all the rides available as options. Nothing good available at Disneyland? You could check out Caliofornia Adventure and easily do a ride over there and pop back to DL for the next. This was also before Park reservations. So now I have an  Ecpot day reserved (just as an example--I wouldn't actually do this, LOL), I've done my first couple Genie + rides and then you hit a wall. If you have a ton of people using Maxpass and not a lot of rides, there isn't going to be a lot of choices and those good rides will be gone quickly or only be available way later in the day. It's the same problem as there was with the FP+ system. Everyone wants Frozen, Test Track and Soaring. I'm probably not explaining it very well, but if you were a regular user of Maxpass you probably get what I'm saying. The times and availability of rides on Maxpass fluctuates throughout the day, and the fact that you had both parks available and could stack was key.


----------



## DL1WDW2

This is hard for me to digest since we know Disney has not played fair .
Manipulate the ride times so we beg for the privilege to pay more?
Okay Disney just give me a little reassurance to believe that the attractions will be operating at full capacity and not have additional mechanical problems .I don’t even have faith you care enough to make sure the attractions are working when you open in the morning and give me that half hour entry .
I guess this means the PeopleMover Transit Authority will become the most popular attraction…and that explains why you haven’t cared enough to repair that also. Much easier to just announce it is down ,closed , get outside of the line please… go stand in another line and hope it doesn’t also fail .
I better remember to read the fine print about no guarantees  and no complaining allowed. So don’t waste your time at guest services .
No refunds


----------



## Wiltony

Please do not be fooled.  I can't believe how many people I'm seeing that say "this is doable" or "$15 isn't that bad."

Genie+ is a major downgrade to Fastpass+ except now you have to pay $15 per person, per day for it, you cannot make more than one selection at a time, cannot make selections before the day of your visit, and does not include all the rides that Fastpass+ did.  It is a very high cost program providing guests with SIGNIFICANTLY less than the free FP+ system provided.

Remember if you do not pay up the $15, you do not get access to ANY fastpass lanes on ANY rides whatsoever.

Finally, once you pay the $15, you still have to pay quite a bit more to get in the fastpass lane for any of the "good" rides on a per-ride basis.


I think this is abhorrent.


----------



## sarbee

-





TomorrowlandKD said:


> Folks, no one is MAKING you use this service. The entitlement is strong in this thread.



I mean, this is a board about Disney vacations.  I think entitlement or privilege or whatever you want to call it goes without saying.  That clarification out of the way, I don't think people being upset about being asked to pay hundreds or thousands of dollars more for the same (or arguably lesser) trip is entitled behavior.  We all understand the concept of inflation.  This isn't that.


----------



## Takket

i shouldn't need a spreadsheet and matrix more complicated than the IRS income tax tables to figure out how to plan a day at Disney. All this on top of park reservations... higher ticket prices... higher resort prices... spend more, get less...

If you are going to make us pay for fastpasses geez can we at least be allowed to make them ahead of time so i'm not worried about getting around the parks around my dining reservations??? 

Does anyon else miss the joy of at least a little spontaneity and "seeing where the day will take you"?

"Hey look! The Dapper Dans!" "Nope, gotta run, the Genie says if i want to ride space mountain we gotta get there now!!!" At least with fastpasses i KNEW all the times way ahead of time and could plan my day around it and leave the rest of my time with as little or as much structure as i want. Now i have to figure out when the Genie says I can go on the next ride i want and figure out what to do in between...


----------



## pigletto

SealedSeven said:


> "
> UPDATE and important clarification: WDW resort guests will be able to reserve Lightning Lane "individual attraction selections" starting at 7am.
> 
> HOWEVER -- there is no resort/onsite advantage for Genie+. ALL guests with Genie+ can book their first attraction starting at 7am."
> >@ScottGustin
> 
> It keeps getting worse hahaha


Well I guess the advantage to that is being able to save a ton of money and stay at larger and more comfortable offsite accommodations.


----------



## Farro

SealedSeven said:


> So you pay $15 for minimal use....



Not at all.


----------



## PFopma

Another question - will everyone in your party have to purchase the $15 pass if one or two people want it? 
I sent the Disney Parks Blog article to one of my party and she said (in her best grumbly voice) I'm not paying for that!!


----------



## gharter

EpcotPhoenician said:


> My thoughts exactly. Universal has been charging for their service for how long (excluding their premier resorts)? It was only a matter of time before this was coming.
> 
> I'm not OK with throwing money at Disney, but the app looks pretty neat, and if the extra revenue stream for them means being able to bring back more Cast Members post-pandemic, I'm all in.
> 
> I realize this is unpopular opinion, though.


The difference is at Universal when we stay at one of their "Deluxe" resort, Express pass is free.  And we bypass the line for all but 2 attractions.  What Disney is offering for a paid option isn't even close.  
However, if you were paying for Express Pass at $100-$300 per day (depending on crowds) now Disneys option is looking better.


----------



## JakeAZ

SealedSeven said:


> "
> UPDATE and important clarification: WDW resort guests will be able to reserve Lightning Lane "individual attraction selections" starting at 7am.
> 
> HOWEVER -- there is no resort/onsite advantage for Genie+. ALL guests with Genie+ can book their first attraction starting at 7am."
> >@ScottGustin
> 
> It keeps getting worse hahaha


Wow...total slap in the face.  Pay more to stay on-site and we'll allow you to pay more to reserve a time...2 hours earlier than those who don't say on site...but at the same price they pay.


----------



## SealedSeven

Farro said:


> Not at all.



You have to wait till the next pass is used. If first one is at 10:30am, and you pick 3pm for earliest time at another ride, your next selection is after 3, where possibly slim pickings after.  So essentially 3 rides $15.


----------



## Wiltony

disneyworldsk said:


> i guess this will ruin touring plan's business too. that's sad.



Phsaw!  I would buy stock in Touringplans right now if I could.  Genie+ will be constantly lying to you to help manage crowds to Disney's liking.  They will inflate ride times to get you to buy Genie+ or a per-ride fast pass.  They will manipulate reality to serve their ends, not yours.  Touringplans will be the only source to pull back to the curtain and see what's really going on and where to go in order to maximize your time.

I can 100% guarantee that Genie+ will be telling me to buy a Lightning Lane pass for $24.95 (plus tax!) for my family of 7 in order to get on Slinky Dog Dash, where Touringplans will happily inform me to "just enter the queue at 1:45 and you'll experience half the wait....and save $175."


----------



## mousefan73

Takket said:


> i shouldn't need a spreadsheet and matrix more complicated than the IRS income tax tables to figure out how to plan a day at Disney. All this on top of park reservations... higher ticket prices... higher resort prices... spend more, get less...
> 
> If you are going to make us pay for fastpasses geez can we at least be allowed to make them ahead of time so i'm not worried about getting around the parks around my dining reservations???
> 
> Does anyon else miss the joy of at least a little spontaneity and "seeing where the day will take you"?
> 
> "Hey look! The Dapper Dans!" "Nope, gotta run, the Genie says if i want to ride space mountain we gotta get there now!!!" At least with fastpasses i KNEW all the times way ahead of time and could plan my day around it and leave the rest of my time with as little or as much structure as i want. Now i have to figure out when the Genie says I can go on the next ride i want and figure out what to do in between...


That my main complaint. WDW was never a relaxing vacation- but this sounds exhausting and total lack of control of MY time


----------



## Jadyreen1282

We were booked at BWI. Bagged it cause Delta. POR is our home though. Looks like we will spend the extra cash from going deluxe on Genie+. Fine with us.


----------



## Taylor'sMom

Wondering how the rope drop "rush" will be affected. 
For example... at MK.. If SDMT is one of the only add-on rides, does that mean:
a) LESS people will be headed there at rope drop because they have paid the add-on individual price and can ride it later in the day or
b) MORE people will be headed there at rope drop because they have paid the $20 for the base Genie+ and don't need to rush to anything else they'll have easy access to later, but they _didn't_ pay the add-on price for SDMT so that makes it the _only_ must-do option for rope drop.


----------



## Farro

SealedSeven said:


> You have to wait till the next pass is used. If first one is at 10:30am, and you pick 3pm for earliest time at another ride, your next selection is after 3, where possibly slim pickings after.  So essentially 3 rides $15.



We'll see. Who knows how fast it will go.

And we start a lot earlier than 10:30 am and I wouldn't choose a ride at 3pm, that's quite a leap from what I said!


----------



## mom2cinderella

Wdw1015 said:


> Great article from DFB that breaks it all down:
> https://www.disneyfoodblog.com/2021...isney-world-soon-and-its-called-disney-genie/







gharter said:


> Thanks, that was very helpful to explain it easily.



yes that was super helpful - thank you


----------



## Skippyboo

This all seems so confusing. So say I have a HS park pass. At 7am, I can try for a Rise boarding group or try to book a paid lighting lane for Rise or 7DMT and also at 7 am book a genie+ for ToT? Are they going to get rid of the 2 pm park hoppers limit since you can book your paid lighting lane across multiple parks? Also how long do you have to use your FP especially if you have dining ADRs or have to travel to a different park.


----------



## SealedSeven

Taylor'sMom said:


> Wondering how the rope drop "rush" will be affected.
> For example... at MK.. If SDMT is one of the only add-on rides, does that mean:
> a) LESS people will be headed there at rope drop because they have paid the add-on individual price and cab ride it later in the day or
> b) MORE people will be headed there at rope drop because they have paid the $20 for the base Genie+ and don't need to rush to anything else they'll have easy access to later, but they _didn't_ pay the add-on price for SDMT so that makes it the _only_ must-do option for rope drop.



Makes it so every DVC guest is at Seven Dwarfs or eventually Tron in the first 30min. Rope drop for everyone else will be walking into long lines for those already.


----------



## gharter

Wiltony said:


> Genie+ will be constantly lying to you to help manage crowds to Disney's liking.


This is one of many concerns.  If you let Genie "plan" your day, is it going to route you to rides to help balance out the park?
You have Pirates listed as one of your attractions and Little Mermaid has nearly no line, so it routes you there?  Granted you can over ride that, I'm guessing and make it select a different option?


----------



## Turksmom

I just received an email from Disney Destinations  telling me about Genie. I have WDW trips scheduled beginning 10/17 and 11/7, so I'm guessing it will be available before one (or both) of those dates


----------



## GeorgiaHoo

Farro said:


> We'll see. Who knows how fast it will go.
> 
> And we start a lot earlier than 10:30 am and I wouldn't choose a ride at 3pm, that's quite a leap from what I said!


We used to start at RD too, but there's lots of folks who don't, and we've moved to a more relaxing mode. So not excited about any change that requires an early time commitment.  We canceled our September 2021 vacation because of the uncertainty with COVID.  I certainly won't book another one until I understand how this change is going to work.  Since it's just my wife and I on our next vacation I'm much more inclined to go somewhere more relaxing and less expensive.


----------



## Mike Mantis

Taylor'sMom said:


> Wondering how the rope drop "rush" will be affected.
> For example... at MK.. If SDMT is one of the only add-on rides, does that mean:
> a) LESS people will be headed there at rope drop because they have paid the add-on individual price and can ride it later in the day or
> b) MORE people will be headed there at rope drop because they have paid the $20 for the base Genie+ and don't need to rush to anything else they'll have easy access to later, but they _didn't_ pay the add-on price for SDMT so that makes it the _only_ must-do option for rope drop.



I think B... Totally B...

There will be blog posts, vlogs, complex mathematical wait time studies that will eventually show (what may of us rope droppers know) is that with the right plan and some luck you can get a TON done from Rope Drop until 11ish. Genie may help with that a bit.


----------



## Farro

Turksmom said:


> I just received an email from Disney Destinations  telling me about Genie. I have WDW trips scheduled beginning 10/17 and 11/7, so I'm guessing it will be available before one (or both) of those dates



I got that email and our trip starts 10/20....


----------



## peteykirch

I'll be curious to see how they allocate spots for RoTR with this. If the virtual queue had say 10k slots, how many will they shift away from virtual queue to the lightning lane? If you think the boarding groups fill up fast now see how much faster they will fill up if they take slots away.


----------



## Lehuaann

princessfionasmom said:


> Found the answer to my questions, here it is if anyone else is interested:
> We are also making some enhancements to our Disability Access Service (DAS) program, including new options to enroll in the program pre-arrival and for DAS participants to select attractions directly in the app. These options will be available in addition to our existing, in-person DAS program. Visit our Services for Guests with Disabilities page DisneyWorld.com and Disneyland.comfor more details.
> 
> https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2021/08/introducing-disney-genie/



DAS, check out this part...

https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/g...-service/?CMP=ILC-DPFY21Q4wo0812210818210024C


----------



## Jothmas

Jonfw2 said:


> I foresee every single person getting off their first ride of the day and immediately flooding whatever ride at that point has the soonest Genie+ time available.


I think there will be a lot inflexible people who will choose the attraction they want to go on next, regardless of when the next window is. People who are flexible will be able to take advantage of choosing whatever attraction has the shortest time until you can get on it. It could be like it it was with FP+ where all day you could just keep picking whichever attraction had the soonest start time for your next one and use FP+ for every attraction.


----------



## Disneylover99

Taylor'sMom said:


> Wondering how the rope drop "rush" will be affected.
> For example... at MK.. If SDMT is one of the only add-on rides, does that mean:
> a) LESS people will be headed there at rope drop because they have paid the add-on individual price and can ride it later in the day or
> b) MORE people will be headed there at rope drop because they have paid the $20 for the base Genie+ and don't need to rush to anything else they'll have easy access to later, but they _didn't_ pay the add-on price for SDMT so that makes it the _only_ must-do option for rope drop.


I’m thinking rope drop will be more important than ever, for everyone.


----------



## cgattis

Hm, I just skipped straight to the last page to see if we’d burned anything down yet. I’ll check back….


----------



## Jonfw2

Jothmas said:


> I think there will be a lot inflexible people who will choose the attraction they want to go on next, regardless of when the next window is. People who are flexible will be able to take advantage of choosing whatever attraction has the shortest time until you can get on it. It could be like it it was with FP+ where all day you could just keep picking whichever attraction had the soonest start time for your next one and use FP+ for every attraction.


They will also want to get as much bang for their bucks as possible.


----------



## gharter

I was watching the Disney Park video about Genie and it will even suggest places for you to eat that are close to you.  One more way to try and make their less popular dining places busy?


----------



## MrWreckless

You know the sad part about this, Disney has been and most likely will continue to artificially inflate listed ride queue times to increase the number of people willing to buy this.  I'm surprised something about that isn't illegal.


----------



## JenSop

Things that rub me the wrong way: 
- It's paid fastpass.  That blows.  SO so so so disappointing.  
- 7am for on-site guests????  We aren't "morning-people."  You're saying I have to get up at 7am every day or get the pittance that's left when we hit the parks after lunch???  I don't consider this a benefit.  At least with the previous iteration of Fastpass, we could reserve our afternoon fastpasses before our trip.  And I never had to get up early on vacation. Ugh.
- The ambiguity of how much the "special rides" will be.  Good grief.  SMH


----------



## Mike Mantis

Over under on when this starts... 

I think starting it 10/1 would be INSANE but If you made me bet money, that is when it will launch... Maybe a soft launch a week or two in advance...


----------



## gharter

Disneylover99 said:


> I’m thinking rope drop will be more important than ever, for everyone.


Absolutely.  Just like with previous FP.  Arrive at RD, ride as many as you can, and have your 1st pass for about 2 hours after opening time.


----------



## gharter

Mike Mantis said:


> Over under on when this starts...
> 
> I think starting it 10/1 would be INSANE but If you made me bet money, that is when it will launch... Maybe a soft launch a week or two in advance...


i will be amazed if it doesn't open 10/1


----------



## blabadie

pinkxray said:


> I’m so confused. So let’s say I pay the $15. I’m on site. At 7am I can book a tier 2 attraction. But I want to ride Remy. Can I book Remy at 7am and pay the extra at that point? Can I book Remy and a tier 2? What is happening ?



It seems that if staying on site, at 7AM you can book a maximum of 2 a la carte paid Lightning Lane passes (Remy, ROTR, 7DMT, etc) AND your first Genie+ included Lightning Lane.


----------



## parasail_of_congress

I'm holding out until I can purchase specific seats on rides (like in a theater or airplane) at a moment's notice and have a drone pick me up wherever I am in the park and throw me directly into the seat. Sure, it will be a million spacebucks, but it will be worth it!


----------



## Mike Mantis

MrWreckless said:


> You know the sad part about this, Disney has been and most likely will continue to artificially inflate listed ride queue times to increase the number of people willing to buy this.  I'm surprised something about that isn't illegal.



My last trip the wait times were just flat out wrong and on purpose, they had to be. I get the concept of driving traffic around the park but dont say there is a 50 minute wait and then it really is 20. I think it is clear it is used to move bodies around the park "hey, It's a small world is only 10 minutes lets walk from tomorrowland!" vs some type of big Disney conspiracy...


----------



## JenSop

Disneylover99 said:


> I’m thinking rope drop will be more important than ever, for everyone.


 Agreed - rope drop will matter.  Which ticks me off.  I don't do rope drop anymore.  I'm a night person.  We hit the parks after lunch.


----------



## Mike Mantis

parasail_of_congress said:


> I'm holding out until I can purchase specific seats on rides (like in a theater or airplane) at a moment's notice and have a drone pick me up wherever I am in the park and throw me directly into the seat. Sure, it will be a million spacebucks, but it will be worth it!



The ultimate Genie ticket... 

Front of the Monorail... (Seriously... if there was not that accident that would have been TOTALLY monetized by now...)


----------



## Airb330

Disneylover99 said:


> I’m thinking rope drop will be more important than ever, for everyone.


Rope drop AND *7AM *genie+/LL/Virtual queue picks will be important.

One thing I did like about FP+ was I could *sleep in*, go to the pool, and then go to MK at 3PM and actually get a lot done.


----------



## Rebs007

Arianabtd said:


> I wonder how well the app itself is gonna work in general... I'm sure we are all familiar with Disney's IT


Yep. And how angry are guests going to get when something they pay for doesn’t work!  Wouldn’t want to be a cast member when this goes live


----------



## JakeAZ

JenSop said:


> I don't do rope drop anymore. I'm a night person


Disney has a $249pp "solution" for night people too


----------



## PFopma

VandVsmama said:


> We are going in Oct 2022 with some friends.  I will absolutely pay for this for our entire group of 6.  That trip is going to be a bucket list trip for the 2 friends who are going with us...they've never been to DL, we'll only be there for a week, etc.
> 
> We used Max Pass at DL on 3 different occasions before the pandemic shut everything down.  We LOVED Max Pass.
> 
> I like how in this new system, there's no reserving your ride time 2 months in advance.  I hated that about FP+.  Preventing people from getting a ride FP before the actual day they're at the park makes it more equitable for everyone.
> 
> On the Max Pass system, what we'd do in order to take best advantage of it is this:
> 
> request a FP on the DL app using our Max Pass for all of our tickets.
> app tells you what your 1-hr return window is.
> go to the ride during that return window.
> after you've scanned your ticket (and, thus, 'used' that FP), then while still in the FP line waiting to get on the ride, select your FP/MP for the next attraction.  Sometimes, we'd have to wait to do this after the 2nd "scan your ticket" spot (only a couple of rides at DL had that...all the rest of them were 1 ticket scan from what I remember)
> app tells you what your 1 hour return window is for ride #2.
> go on a different ride or do something else while you wait for return window for ride #2 to begin.
> go to ride #2 during your return window.
> Lather, rinse, repeat.
> On one evening, ODD & I did this all evening long from about 6:30 - 11:00 pm and used 13 different FPs in that time frame.




This is how the old paper fast pass system worked at DL - it let you move efficiently around the park


----------



## Queen2PrincessG

ChanaC said:


> What's interesting is this appears to be similar to Universal's Express Pass system, but far cheaper. Universal's Express Pass is almost like buying a second park ticket. The advantage of that though it generally the Express lines are fairly short since not many people want to pay for it or their deluxe hotels that offer the service. I can see these new Lightening/Genie lines getting really long


It will be interesting to see if they offer it as a perk for deluxe guest. Needless to say this is a plan money grab. Socialism in the park on full display now.


----------



## disneyworldsk

tired of this 7 a.m. nonsense. now there's more 7 a.m. nonsense. what is it with disney and 7 a.m.  They're like my mother when i was in high school pulling me out of bed to start my day....isn't that why we all moved out of mom's house?!!!


----------



## Disneylover99

gharter said:


> Absolutely.  Just like with previous FP.  Arrive at RD, ride as many as you can, and have your 1st pass for about 2 hours after opening time.


Or you could have just scheduled your 3 fp’s for later in the day and not get up early. 

Wasn’t that the whole point of fp+? Avoid the running of the bulls like original fp? Spread out the crowds throughout the day? Now we’re back to survival of the fittest in the mornings - Genie style. Lol.


----------



## JakeAZ

Queen2PrincessG said:


> Socialism in the park on full display now


huh?


----------



## Jothmas

Jonfw2 said:


> They will also want to get as much bang for their bucks as possible.


There are some people who travel to WDW who don't appear to want to get as much bang for their buck as possible. For example, I put into that category people who wait in a 180 minute line for an attraction. I think even with the new system there will be people who don't use it efficiently.


----------



## Airb330

Disneylover99 said:


> Or you could have just scheduled your 3 fp’s for later in the day and not get up early.
> 
> Wasn’t that the whole point of fp+? Avoid the running of the bulls like original fp? Spread out the crowds throughout the day? Now we’re back to survival of the fittest in the mornings - Genie style. Lol.


Yes it feels like a huge step back unless you’re a morning person.


----------



## JakeAZ

disneyworldsk said:


> tired of this 7 a.m. nonsense. now there's more 7 a.m. nonsense. what is it with disney and 7 a.m.  They're like my mother when i was in high school pulling me out of bed to start my day....isn't that why we all moved out of mom's house?!!!


There's only 7am nonsense if you want to purchase specific rides.  From what I've read, you don't get the 7am head start for regular Genie rides


----------



## beachdreamr1229

So, I'm totally fine with the $15 for tier 2 rides because I've already done that at DLR with MP.  But, this a la carte stuff for all the best rides...I don't know.  It seems just overly complicated and frustrating.  I hate the idea of separating haves and have nots, too.  The cost of the tickets is bad enough and all these up-charges just make it worse.


----------



## Wiltony

cgattis said:


> Hm, I just skipped straight to the last page to see if we’d burned anything down yet. I’ll check back….


Definitely ready to start setting things on fire!




Queen2PrincessG said:


> Socialism in the park on full display now.


I think this is just about the farthest you can go in the opposite direction of Socialism lol.


----------



## SealedSeven

parasail_of_congress said:


> I'm holding out until I can purchase specific seats on rides (like in a theater or airplane) at a moment's notice and have a drone pick me up wherever I am in the park and throw me directly into the seat. Sure, it will be a million spacebucks, but it will be worth it!





Shh. Stop giving ideas.  What they may do is make it so Genie+ guests get the full show, ex RotR, while regular queue skips the pre shows...


----------



## VandVsmama

Jothmas said:


> I think there will be a lot inflexible people who will choose the attraction they want to go on next, regardless of when the next window is. People who are flexible will be able to take advantage of choosing whatever attraction has the shortest time until you can get on it. It could be like it it was with FP+ where all day you could just keep picking whichever attraction had the soonest start time for your next one and use FP+ for every attraction.



That’s exactly how we used Max Pass at DL. If you’re willing to be flexible, then it was great. Some attractions did have the FP windows get “taken” sooner than others (Splash Mtn, Space Mtn).


----------



## Lupin

JakeAZ said:


> So, you can make "one at a time".  Does that mean if my next lightning pass is 3 hours from now, I can't book another one until I ride that?  The "next generation of Max Pass" sounds very restrictive.


 If I recall with Maxpass you could only do one at a time and there were times when you booked something, waited for the time to arrive and then when you went to book something else most of the stuff worth getting a fastpass for was like 4 hours away.  It kind of sucked in that respect.  It was much nicer in WDW when you could at least reserve 3 rides ahead of time and then start reserving again when the first one was starting.  

This is basically just another pay-to-play price increase in an attempt to keep the crowds at bay.  It's virtually impossible now to do Disney on a budget and receive the same experience as 2-3 years ago.  It costs a lot more now for the same product.


----------



## VandVsmama

PFopma said:


> This is how the old paper fast pass system worked at DL - it let you move efficiently around the park



yep! I remember those days!


----------



## Mike Mantis

JakeAZ said:


> huh?



I've made a few snarky posts in my time here and this is a Disney money grab. But I've made peace with having to pay more to get more / better service as that is the way most things in life have moved. (Don't flame me!)

I remember when a 5 day pass with park hopper and 2 "waterpark" days was $250 and never expired just 15ish years ago. Times change. We now have a $6k *two night* Star Wars hotel experience. That is literally a 10 day European Cruise with airfare!!! For some it's worth every penny. 

Right now the person who has never been to Disney World or going for their first time, or who was saving and canceled because of COVID and rebooking are the ones who really get the shaft here. 

However, this may get more play than just on the "disney blogs". Already saw postings on CNBC, Fox, Hollywood Reporter... Places where normal Disney news isn't posted...


----------



## SL6827

Wonder when DCL will start charging you to ride the AquaDuck and to enter Castaway Cay?


----------



## ChipnDaleRule

The average European spends 14 nights at WDW, lets say they are average size (family of four) that’s just short of $1000 for Genie+ depending on exchange rate. So that’s a total of nearly $3000 (including park tickets) just to utilise the parks! Does Chapek not realise that consumers are as important as shareholders?


----------



## SealedSeven

JakeAZ said:


> There's only 7am nonsense if you want to purchase specific rides.  From what I've read, you don't get the 7am head start for regular Genie rides



That's worse fyi. Means you really need to be up at 7 to get your pass else everything will be gone quick.


----------



## SL6827

So theres no more rope drop to ride SDMT first thing in the morning, for free?  Or TT or Soarin or SDDash?


----------



## snowybelle

Queen2PrincessG said:


> Socialism in the park on full display now.



Literally the opposite of socialism, but go off... lol.


----------



## JakeAZ

SL6827 said:


> So theres no more rope drop to ride SDMT first thing in the morning, for free?  Or TT or Soarin or SDDash?


You can always get in line.  That's not changing.


----------



## SL6827

I have spent $1400 on 3 adult- four day tickets.  I regret this now.


----------



## JakeAZ

ChipnDaleRule said:


> Does Chapek not realise that consumers are as important as shareholders


One is there to serve the other...I'll let you figure out the order


----------



## Mike Mantis

Serious question (not snark)... Much cheaper to give "Free Genie" away (no real cost) than "Free Dining" (even at inflated food prices).

Give this 18 months and it will be thrown in during the off season.


----------



## Taylor'sMom

Disneylover99 said:


> I’m thinking rope drop will be more important than ever, for everyone.



And as a rope-dropper, I'm sad.
Plus...  All guests that are now up at 7am to get in multiple virtual queues AND make Genie+ selections will now be awake to rope drop, when they use to be sleeping!


----------



## SealedSeven

Mike Mantis said:


> Serious question (not snark)... Much cheaper to give "Free Genie" away (no real cost) than "Free Dining" (even at inflated food prices).
> 
> Give this 18 months and it will be thrown in during the off season.



It's safer to bet the opposite. It'll rise in price.


----------



## joelkfla

pineapplepalms said:


> Disneyland had an AP add-on rate for MaxPass… haven’t seen anything about an AP rate for this but I really hope they have one.


Yeah, it destroys the value of an AP if you have to pay another $15 each time you visit or wait hours to ride an attraction.


----------



## wgeo

SL6827 said:


> So theres no more rope drop to ride SDMT first thing in the morning, for free?  Or TT or Soarin or SDDash?



There will be a stand by but it will be bad again, not like the lines this past summer.  It will go back to super long standbys because of people using lighning lane.


----------



## JenSop

JakeAZ said:


> Disney has a $249pp "solution" for night people too


Yea, don't get me started on that.  At least I'm DVC and can get SOME of those extended evening hours when offered.


----------



## Disneylover99

Mike Mantis said:


> Serious question (not snark)... Much cheaper to give "Free Genie" away (no real cost) than "Free Dining" (even at inflated food prices).
> 
> Give this 18 months and it will be thrown in during the off season.


Or they may do the opposite. Offering free dining keeps people on property at rack rate and since their dining is already paid for, they’ll be throwing money left, right and centre to ride rides and buy souvenirs.


----------



## PFopma

Cj2017 said:


> Yup, family just said "Lets cut out Yahtsman, eat counter service and Disney spring and use the money for Genie"



Does that mean I might now be able to get and ADR for MK on 10/1?


----------



## luv2cheer92

SL6827 said:


> So theres no more rope drop to ride SDMT first thing in the morning, for free?  Or TT or Soarin or SDDash?


Of course, why wouldn't you be able to do that?


----------



## pigletto

Mike Mantis said:


> Serious question (not snark)... Much cheaper to give "Free Genie" away (no real cost) than "Free Dining" (even at inflated food prices).
> 
> Give this 18 months and it will be thrown in during the off season.


Totally agree. With free dining they are actually giving away something that costs them money ( food). They will dangle this carrot to get you to book more expensive packages and it won’t cost them a thing.


----------



## ArielRae

Looks like staying at deluxe resorts and getting those late night hours looking more promising for those not wanting to make rope drop to cut their wait time without paying.


----------



## JakeAZ

If I was DVC, this would make me so mad.  It's always been said "only purchase DVC for the accommodations and don't expect anything else"  This proves it

DVC just get's more devalued each time a guest "enhancement" is announced.


----------



## HopperFan

scrappinginontario said:


> I think they've found the 'sweet spot' for pricing.  Most people will be willing to pay $15/person/day for LL to avoid only using stand-by queues.  It appears it's basically FP+ at $15/day.  Personally, we'll pay it.



I think another plus is no more booking 3 in advance, so the entire pot of availability starts each day.


----------



## bsmcneil

SealedSeven said:


> It's safer to bet the opposite. It'll rise in price.


Right. Part of my frustration is that 15 dollars is clearly a floor. I'm willing to bet we're at 24.99/29.99 within 3 years of launch.


----------



## JakeAZ

ArielRae said:


> Looks like staying at deluxe resorts and getting those late night hours looking more promising for those not wanting to make rope drop to cut their wait time without paying.


Agree, but leaving out AK and HS sucks.


----------



## honeymo78

wgeo said:


> There will be a stand by but it will be bad again, not like the lines this past summer.  It will go back to super long standbys because of people using lighning lane.


That really will depend on whether the same number of people are willing to pay for lightning lane as those who used FP, and whether the same number of slots will be available for LL as FP.


----------



## TwoMisfits

bsmcneil said:


> Right. Part of my frustration is that 15 dollars is clearly a floor. I'm willing to bet we're at 24.99/29.99 within 3 years MONTHS of launch.



Fixed that for you...


----------



## isabellea

I was debating between staying at ASMovie or POFQ. With this news, we decided to stay at Movies and used the money we saved to pay for Genie+ and some LL rides.


----------



## SealedSeven

ArielRae said:


> Looks like staying at deluxe resorts and getting those late night hours looking more promising for those not wanting to make rope drop to cut their wait time without paying.



Hopefully it's 2 hours or so, and Tier 1 lines are open / not virtual queue limited only.  Then it'll be with it for sure / would be happy as a DVC guest.


----------



## Morieris

What happens if you buy this for a day, but you're too slow and you can't get into an attraction.

I'm watching the video (Woof @ that negative ratio). As someone who hasn't gone since 2013, I need to see this in action to better understand.


----------



## sbbwdw

Why do I feel like the guy in this Genie Disney Park video is trying to sell me a used car?


----------



## elleherself

I know people are comparing this to Universal's Express Pass. The thing about Universal is that once you have express pass, you can forget about it. You can easily skip all the lines you want (except the two newest attractions). You don't have to plan, you don't have to wait, you don't have to hunt on your phone for availability. You pay, you ride. Easy.

And as people have noticed, the rides without express pass, the lines move pretty quickly after the first few months of opening. I was in for a rude awakening the first time I got in the "regular" line for Forbidden Journey after they opened an express lane for that ride. A line that usually flew by took forever. But everyone is in the same boat for the newest rides, the regular line is what it is, it's fair for everyone, not just those willing to pay top dollar.

The thing I hated about FastPass+ was the preplanning and the waiting and checking on your phone to get more passes. It makes vacationing anything but relaxing. Now you get all the hassle of checking, but you can also pay for the privilege. I skipped out on Disney years ago for Universal and nothing about this tempts me back.


----------



## sarbee

Mike Mantis said:


> I've made a few snarky posts in my time here and this is a Disney money grab. But I've made peace with having to pay more to get more / better service as that is the way most things in life have moved. (Don't flame me!)
> 
> I remember when a 5 day pass with park hopper and 2 "waterpark" days was $250 and never expired just 15ish years ago. Times change. We now have a $6k *two night* Star Wars hotel experience. That is literally a 10 day European Cruise with airfare!!! For some it's worth every penny.
> 
> Right now the person who has never been to Disney World or going for their first time, or who was saving and canceled because of COVID and rebooking are the ones who really get the shaft here.
> 
> However, this may get more play than just on the "disney blogs". Already saw postings on CNBC, Fox, Hollywood Reporter... Places where normal Disney news isn't posted...



The first article I read about it was in the NYT. 

(FWIW, I think the snarky "huh" was in relation to the socialism label being applied to Disney's very capitalistic new plan.)


----------



## ChanaC

SL6827 said:


> Wonder when DCL will start charging you to ride the AquaDuck and to enter Castaway Cay?



It's like RCI with their Coco Cay waterpark. You would think being on a cruise on their private island would mean most things are included, but nope, they want you to pay more to go into their waterpark. Sure, charge extra for cabanas and snorkels, but really, a whole section of the island?


----------



## TomorrowlandKD

JakeAZ said:


> Wow...total slap in the face.  Pay more to stay on-site and we'll allow you to pay more to reserve a time...2 hours earlier than those who don't say on site...but at the same price they pay.



Once again, no one is forcing you to stay on-site. I think many people are forgetting the basics of this. None of this is forced upon you to use on your trip.

Also, I guarantee at least 50% of the people complaining in this thread will end up using this service. Disney knows that, that's why they are introducing it. Until there's a mass "no" to something new, this trend isn't going to change. To quote the great Bruce Hornsby: "That's just the way it is."


----------



## Airb330

TomorrowlandKD said:


> Once again, no one is forcing you to stay on-site. I think many people are forgetting the basics of this. None of this is forced upon you to use on your trip.



I don’t think anyone is forgetting the basics. *We get your point*, no one is forcing anything. We can still discuss here. If you don’t like the discussion, that’s fine, please go elsewhere.


----------



## joelkfla

JakeAZ said:


> Correct, but you can't pay for the specific time unless you pay for the Genie+


DFB said Genie+ is not required to buy individual attractions.


----------



## pigletto

sbbwdw said:


> Why do I feel like the guy in this Genie Disney Park video is trying to sell me a used car?


Right ? Captain Corporate Personality was not the right man for the job. They should have brought back Stacey so we wouldn’t feel so stabby about this.


----------



## loves to dive

Those of us who rarely used FP and just waited in line if we wanted to ride aren't too upset about this.   I don't see paying for it for myself, I just wait in line if I want to ride a ride or not.   I'm lucky enough to be a frequent visitor (once or twice a year for last 10 years) so if I don't ride something it's no big deal.   I don't go just to ride rides or to see how many rides I can ride in a day.   I also rarely pay attention to the posted wait times.  Pre-Covid with the FP system, if you went often enough you could just eyeball a line for about 30 sec. and know how long you are going to wait.

I am a little confused about the top tier thing.  Say you pay for it but wait too late to get on your phone and the first available top tier is 1 pm.   Say you also paid for Genie.  Are you able to go ahead and book a second tier with that before 1 or do you have to wait until you've done your 1 pm ride to book something.   Sounds a bit wonky to me.


----------



## TomorrowlandKD

Airb330 said:


> I don’t think anyone is forgetting the basics. *We get your point*, no one is forcing anything. We can still discuss here. If you don’t like the discussion, that’s fine, please go elsewhere.



If I don't like certain parts of the discussion, that's part of a discussion. It's a message board. I'm doing just fine, thanks.


----------



## ChanaC

TomorrowlandKD said:


> Also, I guarantee at least 50% of the people complaining in this thread will end up using this service. Disney knows that, that's why they are introducing it. Until there's a mass "no" to something new, this trend isn't going to change. To quote the great Bruce Hornsby: "That's just the way it is."



Honestly, there is a good chance I will. I'm tentatively planning a short trip for early December, just my sibling and I. We're probably going for two park days and doing park hoppers so we can attempt to do all four. I haven't been since 2015 so there is a whole list of new things I want to experience for the first time. We're already staying off-site to save some money. For the two of us to get to as much things as possible in such a short amount of time I think it will be worth it and it will hopefully be a good tool. However, if I was bringing an entire large family for multiple days I don't know if it would be worth it.


----------



## storey13

Has anyone found out or has it been disclosed if you can add Genie + to one day for Magic Kingdom? We our a family of 5 and have 9 day tickets for late October, and there is no way I am going to spend 75 x 9 for the entire trip, especially when this really isn't needed at AK or Epcot.


----------



## JakeAZ

TomorrowlandKD said:


> Once again, no one is forcing you to stay on-site. I think many people are forgetting the basics of this. None of this is forced upon you to use on your trip.
> 
> Also, I guarantee at least 50% of the people complaining in this thread will end up using this service. Disney knows that, that's why they are introducing it. Until there's a mass "no" to something new, this trend isn't going to change. To quote the great Bruce Hornsby: "That's just the way it is."


Never said I was forced to stay on site or forced to use this.  My point is I'm surprised (maybe I shouldn't be) they priced the same regardless of where you are staying.  It absolutely incentivizes people to stay off-site with shorter trips while using the savings to get on the rides they want.


----------



## TomorrowlandKD

JakeAZ said:


> It absolutely incentivizes people to stay off-site with shorter trips while using the savings to get on the rides they want.



Absolutely! Totally agree - the cost ratio to benefits of staying on property is just not worth it anymore.


----------



## scrappinginontario

I'm interested to see if this is an opt in by day option.  We normally purchase 7 or 8 day tickets.  I might add this for a couple of days but wouldn't need it for every day.  Hoping it isn't like park hopper where you're either in or out.


----------



## Frozen2014

elgerber said:


> per person per day? I am good


That adds up quick.....4 people = $60/day
4 days = $360 extra USD, which is $455 CAD for us.

But pretty sure we will still purchase it

Guessing main headliners will be the additional cost (e.g. flight of passage?)


----------



## marybaby08

IAmDis said:


> What's the perks? I've only experienced the free express on the higher tiered passes. One big gripe about Universal Express is you can't even get on Velocicoaster or Hagrid's. The two most popular rides. I'm sure in due time, they will finally add those, but still, if you're visiting and paying $99 - $230+ per person to get on all the rides and can't even get on the most popular ones, what other perks offset that?


I wish this would be like the universal, I stay 1 night for a family of 4 and get 2 days of Express passes. Never wait more than 15 minutes, can go to the same ride over and over and over if I want to.


----------



## Airb330

scrappinginontario said:


> I'm interested to see if this is an opt in by day option.  We normally purchase 7 or 8 day tickets.  I might add this for a couple of days but wouldn't need it for every day.  Hoping it isn't like park hopper where you're either in or out.


I _believe_ the video said you can opt in by day (at least for AP).


----------



## srauseo

As someone who has failed to get FOP FPs on multiple attempts at 60+10 days, I do kinda like that all attraction reservations are now made on the same day by all guests. If you were planning a trip with short lead time all the good FPs would likely be gone.  

I still prefer UO's express pass system generally speaking. It's easier and doesn't require you to be on your phone all day making reservation after reservation. But it does cost a lot more. 

I'd like to see more benefits for on-site guests in addition to the earlier window to book your LL attraction(s).


----------



## elleherself

TomorrowlandKD said:


> If I don't like certain parts of the discussion, that's part of a discussion. It's a message board. I'm doing just fine, thanks.



It's pretty spammy to just keep repeating your same post over and over again replying to different comments.


----------



## Ensusieasm

scrappinginontario said:


> I'm interested to see if this is an opt in by day option.  We normally purchase 7 or 8 day tickets.  I might add this for a couple of days but wouldn't need it for every day.  Hoping it isn't like park hopper where you're either in or out.


that’s my question too


----------



## DLRExpert

I have hard time believing that a free touring plan option, would really be for the guest experience and not a GENIE+ and Lightning Lane upsell opportunity for Disney.
Why would Disney show or tell someone how to get on a Top Attraction with a low wait Stand By line when they are trying to sell Genie+ and LL.

They should just have stuck with Genie+ (aka new MaxPass) and skip the idea of LL. But Disney could not help their greedy selves.


----------



## PFopma

JenSop said:


> Things that rub me the wrong way:
> - It's paid fastpass.  That blows.  SO so so so disappointing.
> - 7am for on-site guests????  We aren't "morning-people."  You're saying I have to get up at 7am every day or get the pittance that's left when we hit the parks after lunch???  I don't consider this a benefit.  At least with the previous iteration of Fastpass, we could reserve our afternoon fastpasses before our trip.  And I never had to get up early on vacation. Ugh.
> - The ambiguity of how much the "special rides" will be.  Good grief.  SMH



Yeah - a lot of this rubs me the wrong way too. But something I didn't think about. Will Genie+ just assign you the next available time or will you be able to choose a time like you could with old FP?


----------



## BalooFan

Turksmom said:


> I just received an email from Disney Destinations  telling me about Genie. I have WDW trips scheduled beginning 10/17 and 11/7, so I'm guessing it will be available before one (or both) of those dates


I received this email also. My trip begins 10/7. I was concerned that this meant Genie will be up and running by then. However, I also received this email at a different email address my upcoming trip isn’t associated with. So, I’m hoping that this was just a generic email to people who have booked WDW vacations in the past. Did anyone who doesn’t have a trip reserved receive this email?


----------



## JakeAZ

PFopma said:


> Will Genie+ just assign you the next available time or will you be able to choose a time like you could with old FP?


Depends.  Have you given Genie access to your mobile wallet?


----------



## insureman

Nope. This is the straw.


----------



## Jennasis

Is this ANOTHER app I will have to download or is it integrated into MDE already?

Also, did Disney just completely ruin Touring Plans???


----------



## joelkfla

bsmcneil said:


> Right. Part of my frustration is that 15 dollars is clearly a floor. I'm willing to bet we're at 24.99/29.99 within 3 years of launch.


I'm confident it will go up _at leas_t $5 each year.


----------



## deltadisney

Jennasis said:


> Is this ANOTHER app I will have to download or is it integrated into MDE already?
> 
> Also, did Disney just completely ruin Touring Plans???


It looks like it will be integrated with MDE.


----------



## srauseo

BalooFan said:


> I received this email also. My trip begins 10/7. I was concerned that this meant Genie will be up and running by then. However, I also received this email at a different email address my upcoming trip isn’t associated with. So, I’m hoping that this was just a generic email to people who have booked WDW vacations in the past. Did anyone who doesn’t have a trip reserved receive this email?


My trip starts 10/7 as well. Got the email.


----------



## vicarrieous

Frozen2014 said:


> That adds up quick.....4 people = $60/day
> 4 days = $360 extra USD, which is $455 CAD for us.
> 
> But pretty sure we will still purchase it
> 
> Guessing main headliners will be the additional cost (e.g. flight of passage?)



I think your math is off. $60/day x 4 days = $240. Still not cheap though


----------



## emily nicole

Wow. So this makes me pretty glad I switched from POFQ to offsite and saved $1600 (actually $1900 but I’m factoring in $300 to pay for premium parking every day). It doesn’t sound like there is much value to on-site guests here and I say this as a previously VERY loyal on-property guest. Looks like Disney found a way to get my money after all.

I’ll be waiting to see if Disney realizes their mistake here and makes this better for their on-site folks. I’m not opposed to coming back on-site (only value and mod in my budget) for some perks.


----------



## PFopma

I got the e-mail too and my trip starts 9/29 for the start of the 50th -- God help us!


----------



## joelkfla

cdurham1 said:


> Idk, interesting timing they announced this before they announced new pricing on APs.  It is possible they will have a new tier AP that includes Genie+ for a substantial upcharge.
> 
> I am not familiar with the DLR programs.  Did APs there get Maxpass included?  Or did they pay for it every day they wanted it?


No personal experience, but someone said the old MaxPass was available as an add-on, I assume for the length of the pass.  That's also how they've handled parking out there (or used to).

ETA: In the video, he says it will be a day-of-visit add-on for AP's _at launch_, but they will be "exploring" other options in the future.


----------



## RoseGold

Genie as a character was helpful and you ordered him around.

This is a nightmare bossy Genie that makes you get up at 7AM and then barks at you it’s time to buy a Mickey bar and get $3 off to only pay $24.95 to ride slinky dog.  Life is your restaraunt, and im your revenue optimizer.


----------



## joelkfla

TwoMisfits said:


> If it hasn't been said...
> 
> This is a way to advantage single trip guests over APs...APs can't just book 3 popular rides and hit an evening and be happy.  If they want to do that now with little wait, it will be $15/person each night (plus probably $15/ride on the biggies).  So, fewer will do it, and thus the waits go down for single trip guests to the disadvantage of APs.
> 
> Whether you think that is good or bad probably depends on who you are...but if you're Disney, you win no matter what, so now you know why it was put in...


Well, they'll be losing the income from lots of local AP'ers, come renewal time.  But maybe they've calculated the revenue from this will outweigh the loss.


----------



## DWillowBay

So...a new can of cute, squiggly worms.....is WDW's Wifi system going to be able to support all this?   I have had trouble for years with spotty service, but I wasn't that phone dependent.   Hopefully, the system is or will be upgraded to handle such a load every minute of every day.   ????


----------



## fla4fun

I have not received an email yet.  I have a trip starting 9/28 for the anniversary weekend, and one in January.  I have a platinum AP.  I am not paying more to go on attractions.  Maybe they know that and left me off the blast?


----------



## ajaye318

fla4fun said:


> I have not received an email yet.  I have a trip starting 9/28 for the anniversary weekend, and one in January.  I have a platinum AP.  I am not paying more to go on attractions.  Maybe they know that and left me off the blast?


I have a trip planned for arrival on September 16th and have also not gotten the email. I have a Platinum AP, but the other 6 in my party linked to the reservation have park hoppers. I really hope this doesn’t go into effect until after our trip.


----------



## MikeOhio

Getting up at 7am is brutal.  Should move to
Something like 5pm the previous day.


----------



## Drewsdad

Haven’t received email either.  But still a while out before trip.


----------



## peteykirch

I got the email and our trip isn't until November 8th. If this drops the same week as the 50th the Guest Relations CMs are going to be begging to be put down.


----------



## cjlong88

I received the email but won’t be visiting WDW until December 2022. Strange…


----------



## OfCourseTheresAlwaysMyWay

This is certainly gonna change the way I visit Disney World. I'm not gonna go.

We're go with the flow people who just enjoy being in the parks and it seems like things are just getting more and more complicated and more and more expensive for no reason. It's a bummer.

I think I'd rather see some new places or revisit some old ones that are more appreciative of my time and money. At this point, I'll probably wait until Epic Universe opens and do a day or two at Disney as an add-on.


----------



## sarbee

cjlong88 said:


> I received the email but won’t be visiting WDW until December 2022. Strange…



I did not receive the email and we are going at the beginning of December 2021.


----------



## OregonRN

scrappinginontario said:


> I think they've found the 'sweet spot' for pricing.  Most people will be willing to pay $15/person/day for LL to avoid only using stand-by queues.  It appears it's basically FP+ at $15/day.  Personally, we'll pay it.



$15 isn’t bad but if they increase like they did with Maxpass it’ll be $20 in a year and $30 a couple years after .


----------



## DisneyTarheel

Disneylover99 said:


> I’m thinking rope drop will be more important than ever, for everyone.



Damn.  This is complicated, particularly when you add in the 2-phase rope drop.  For the E-ticket rides that don’t require a virtual queue, on-site guests can rope-drop one during their first 1/2 hour, but I wonder how backed up things will be for off-site guests’ rope drop.  They may have to spring for the E-ticket purchase, wait for end of night drop off, or suffer in line.


----------



## bsmcneil

Airb330 said:


> I don’t think anyone is forgetting the basics. *We get your point*, no one is forcing anything. We can still discuss here. If you don’t like the discussion, that’s fine, please go elsewhere.





TomorrowlandKD said:


> If I don't like certain parts of the discussion, that's part of a discussion. It's a message board. I'm doing just fine, thanks.


Honestly, the ignore function works for all involved...


----------



## Lehuaann

Lightning Lane_. “Honey, we have a lightning pass; get in the lightning lane!”_

Not easy or catchy like FastPass


----------



## SansComic

So Disney is now telling me that every day of my vacation I need to wake up by 7:00am in order to book (in advance) only ONE tier 2 or tier 3 ride, while simultaneously debating whether to purchase individual lightning lane attractions (AKA the tier 1 rides that I actually want to ride?).

Every single trip, my one goal is to ride flight of passage without waiting 3 hours. The only way to do that now is to pay to get on the ride. Any bets on whether it will be over $100 to ride?


----------



## momw/2princesses

Turksmom said:


> I just received an email from Disney Destinations  telling me about Genie. I have WDW trips scheduled beginning 10/17 and 11/7, so I'm guessing it will be available before one (or both) of those dates



I also got the email.  Our trip is 9/4.


----------



## bsmcneil

BalooFan said:


> I received this email also. My trip begins 10/7. I was concerned that this meant Genie will be up and running by then. However, I also received this email at a different email address my upcoming trip isn’t associated with. So, I’m hoping that this was just a generic email to people who have booked WDW vacations in the past. Did anyone who doesn’t have a trip reserved receive this email?


FWIW, I'm traveling 9/21 and got this (though it could just be that they sent it out to everyone, and I'm traveling in January). But for people sort of wondering when/if - this is a possible data point.


----------



## BroadwayHermione5

PFopma said:


> I got the e-mail too and my trip starts 9/29 for the start of the 50th -- God help us!


I’m just jumping around the thread what email?


----------



## Arianabtd

Just got the email... my trip is late november so I was bracing for it


----------



## DisneyTarheel

Airb330 said:


> Rope drop AND *7AM *genie+/LL/Virtual queue picks will be important.
> 
> One thing I did like about FP+ was I could *sleep in*, go to the pool, and then go to MK at 3PM and actually get a lot done.



If on-site, you may be able to use LL queue at 7 to grab ressies for the 2 E-ticket rides later in the day to let you go back to sleep, at least.  If the genie+ only lets you pick next available time for rides, it’s possible it may still be viable later in the day.  So your 3pm start time might still be an option.  Disney has figured out a way to monetize sleep.


----------



## JakeAZ

SansComic said:


> Every single trip, my one goal is to ride flight of passage without waiting 3 hours. The only way to do that now is to pay to get on the ride. Any bets on whether it will be over $100 to ride?


If they only offer paid FP for FOP, technically the standby line should move much faster.


----------



## Lehuaann

SansComic said:


> So Disney is now telling me that every day of my vacation I need to wake up by 7:00am in order to book (in advance) only ONE tier 2 or tier 3 ride, while simultaneously debating whether to purchase individual lightning lane attractions (AKA the tier 1 rides that I actually want to ride?).
> 
> Every single trip, my one goal is to ride flight of passage without waiting 3 hours. The only way to do that now is to pay to get on the ride. Any bets on whether it will be over $100 to ride?



Yep, while someone else in your family is attempting ROTR or Remy’s.

7am was intentional. The entire family will be up making reservations


----------



## William B

BalooFan said:


> I received this email also. My trip begins 10/7. I was concerned that this meant Genie will be up and running by then. However, I also received this email at a different email address my upcoming trip isn’t associated with. So, I’m hoping that this was just a generic email to people who have booked WDW vacations in the past. Did anyone who doesn’t have a trip reserved receive this email?



I got the email, and, as of right now, I do not have any future trips planned.  We went the end of April.  Thought it was a little odd to have gotten it.


----------



## snowwhite84

Arianabtd said:


> Just got the email... my trip is late november so I was bracing for it


Anybody want to copy and paste the body of the email here?


----------



## mom2cinderella

BroadwayHermione5 said:


> I’m just jumping around the thread what email?







Disney Genie service – coming This Fall​





We’re almost ready to let Disney Genie service out of the lamp!

You may have seen the news that a new service is coming to help you get the most of your visit to _Walt Disney World_Resort. *Disney Genie* service, *Disney Genie+* service and our *Lightning Lane* entrances are all designed to make planning your best Disney day that much easier.

These unique new options will be available on *MyDisneyExperience* app later this fall. And we’ll be sharing more soon. In the meantime, click below to learn more.​


----------



## BalooFan

snowwhite84 said:


> Anybody want to copy and paste the body of the email here?





Disney Genie service – coming This Fall​





We’re almost ready to let Disney Genie service out of the lamp!

You may have seen the news that a new service is coming to help you get the most of your visit to _Walt Disney World_ Resort. *Disney Genie* service, *Disney Genie+* service and our *Lightning Lane* entrances are all designed to make planning your best Disney day that much easier.

These unique new options will be available on *MyDisneyExperience* app later this fall. And we’ll be sharing more soon. In the meantime, click below to learn more.​


----------



## TheDailyMoo

I think the most deplorable part of not only this but all the "more money, less product" that's been coming on strong lately is that it's basically using COVID as the excuse.  They've always wanted to do this but in an alternate timeline where there was never any COVID, there is no way we're where we are right now.

In that other timeline August 2021 we still have Magical Express...regular ol Fast Pass...Disney Dining...all the shows and parades...etc etc.

As a shareholder, this is the kind of garbage that makes me root for it to crash back down just to teach the executives with stock options a lesson...starting with Iger


----------



## jojomoore

SealedSeven said:


> I meant as in only able to get 2-3 passes in a full day due to reservations being filled / needing to wait for your current pass to be used to check next availability.  You'll not be able to get anything out of the pass to make it worth $15.



My past experience traveling during crowded times is only getting to do about 3 fastpass attractions per day. No extra fastpasses would be available by the time we used the scheduled ones. This sounds like WDW has just come up with a way to make guests pay for what they were getting for free but now they have to wait till the day of to plan. and i wonder about park hopping.


----------



## georgina

Turksmom said:


> I just received an email from Disney Destinations  telling me about Genie. I have WDW trips scheduled beginning 10/17 and 11/7, so I'm guessing it will be available before one (or both) of those dates


I got that email and my trip starts Sept 26.


----------



## sailored

I wonder if this is a feature you would be able to add to the military tickets.


----------



## SansComic

Lehuaann said:


> Yep, while someone else in your family is attempting ROTR or Remy’s.
> 
> 7am was intentional. The entire family will be up making reservations



ROTR and Remy’s won’t be available on Genie+ I bet, I think it’ll be individual for-purchase attractions. So families can decide ahead of time if that’s something they’ll even want to pay to ride, and then choose to wake up early not.


----------



## SansComic

JakeAZ said:


> If they only offer paid FP for FOP, technically the standby line should move much faster.


This is all subject to the price. They will need to price high enough to keep down the wait in the LL entrance. With a high enough price, and no Genie+ booking option, I doubt the standby line will move faster.


----------



## mi*vida*loca

TheDailyMoo said:


> I think the most deplorable part of not only this but all the "more money, less product" that's been coming on strong lately is that it's basically using COVID as the excuse.  They've always wanted to do this but in an alternate timeline where there was never any COVID, there is no way we're where we are right now.



Never let a tragedy go to waste.


----------



## mommycrawford

Never happier that I cancelled my August trip!...That was pushed back a year from last August-(NYer with genuine covid fears with this Delta variant.) My daughter used to think Disney was our summer house as we went every year! We miss it horribly, as many here do, but Genie is exploitive imho! On the heels of a pandemic, from which Disney plus profited well, I don't think it's very thoughtful of people, but then the Disney brothers are dead, right?...A place the whole family can enjoy.


----------



## DisneyByMarriage

I’m hoping this you are able to buy this per day and not for everyone in your party.  For example, two of my three kids won’t ride the scarier rides.  So maybe we’d pay for my more adventurous son and husband to have genie+.  But not all five.  That’s why I think I’d be willing to pay for LL for certain rides.  But to be clear: think it sucks for the consumer.  I did the math, and for our trip in November, if we had decided on Very Merry and Genie+, the cost the park portion of our trip would go from $2500 to $4000.


----------



## kitkat4622

Elleshoodat said:


> I am not. I will see how it plays out, but yet another charge to enjoy the parks—and even more planning—has me seriously rethinking future vacations.




me too, I feel like I am already paying way more than enough for my trip in April. this has me rethinking the whole thing and going someplace else. 
I love Disney but lately disenchanted with less perks and more money


----------



## snowpack

snowwhite84 said:


> Anybody want to copy and paste the body of the email here?



Please! Mid-November is our time and I did not receive an email, but we are not staying at a top hotel either.


----------



## vinotinto

Count me in the camp of ‘not happy about having to get up before 7am every day of “vacation.”’ Disney, bless your heart, what in the world are you doing?


----------



## Neener16

I just returned from Disney on July 24th and I got the email. I don’t think those of you who have trips planned should read anything into it. I was one of those people who was able to efficiently use FP. We went on pretty much any ride we wanted, and multiple times. Not happy with the changes and will definitely not be going back in the foreseeable future. We had gone pretty much yearly and are huge Disney people. This really feels like a screw job. Time to explore other places.


----------



## matthewthompson87

The fact that there is no price range mentioned for the pay-per-ride attractions is egregiously discourteous.


----------



## bashuck

JakeAZ said:


> The rumor is the top 2 rides, in each park, will be the ala carte rides and not available with the $15 Genie+
> 
> That's fine for MK, but if you take the top 2 at the other 3 parks...there isn't much left...


What is the second most popular ride at MK? Seems like a tiny difference between 2&3 as I don't know which is which.


----------



## Lsdolphin

cdurham1 said:


> Well, you have to hand it to Disney, they essentially found a way to incrementally raise ticket prices and provide something less than they did before.  They knew the price point they could charge and it won't scare off anyone.



Oh I’m sure they will still raise ticket prices!!!


----------



## patclairesmom

I'm on the fence.  The _Complimentary _portion is cool, but I don't trust the wait times because they can change so rapidly.  Also with the + version, are you going to be waiting around till the next attraction.  Say we're in Fantasy land and nothing is really available, next best one is an hour away.  What do you do then, scramble on your phone to find an attraction in the meantime.


----------



## beachdreamr1229

Oddly enough, I did not receive the email.  But then, I never seem to receive the emails.  

I really want to know which rides will be a la carte.  I know DLR better--I can tell you right now which rides I fully expect to be top tier.  But some of the WDW parks have so few rides to start with, or most of the rides seem like contenders.  So, MK will probably be Mine Train and I'm guessing one of the mountains.  There's still plenty left to ride without those though.  What do you do with the other 3 parks that just don't have that many rides or those where most of the rides could be contenders?


----------



## Delirium

So much for sleeping in on vacation.  If your plan was to hit the park in the afternoon, you either have to get up at 7 a.m. or take your chances that something decent will be when you are ready to go to the park.


----------



## boop0524

I genuinely would like to know…how does the average person who doesn’t keep up with Disney news understand how to navigate the parks? There’s park reservations, new rules for park hopping, mobile ordering, restaurant reservations, boarding groups, all these new Genie things, constantly changing mask rules, etc. etc. It’s making my head spin!


----------



## Lehuaann

SansComic said:


> ROTR and Remy’s won’t be available on Genie+ I bet, I think it’ll be individual for-purchase attractions. So families can decide ahead of time if that’s something they’ll even want to pay to ride, and then choose to wake up early not.



From reading Josh D’Amaro, RotR will remain a virtual queue (currently 7 a.m.) as well as paid (Lightning Lane individual attraction purchase 7 a.m).

I don’t quite understand it all, but it all seems like a lot to juggle at 7 a.m.


----------



## DisneyRunner2009

I have a trip starting during the end of September dates mentioned, but I didn't receive an email. I bet Remy and ROTR are the $24 per ride price.


----------



## Delirium

There are still vacation spots in the world where you can escape the burdens of technology.  Disney just went all-in the totally opposite direction.  Is it even a 'vacation' any more?


----------



## tinkerhon

vinotinto said:


> Count me in the camp of ‘not happy about having to get up before 7am every day of “vacation.”’ Disney, bless your heart, what in the world are you doing?



Totally agree !!  We are night owls on vacay !!!  Late to bed, late to rise---   Last thing I want to dois wake up so early for this !! --   if they WERE going to make a paid FP service, couldnt they make one where you could book at rides ahead of time (the 60- day window would work)


----------



## Dave006

matthewthompson87 said:


> The fact that there is no price range mentioned for the pay-per-ride attractions is egregiously discourteous.


They are not pay per ride attractions.

You have the option to purchase 2 time specific rides on the Tier 1 group per day just like making an ADR for Breakfast, Lunch or Dinner. 

You also have the option of using VQ for rides that support that feature and the normal queue for rides that don't use the VQ option.

*Note: the number of Individual Attraction times will be limited just like ADRs.*

Dave


----------



## JPinkc

The only time we have EVER Rope Dropped was our kids First visit.  This whole idea of having to get up at 7AM EVERYDAY ON VACATION!!!  Just absolutely Destroys the IDEA OF VACATION!!!


----------



## lynch34

Folks - price out other options for your money. You’ll be amazed how uncompetitive Disney is now.


----------



## ChanaC

matthewthompson87 said:


> The fact that there is no price range mentioned for the pay-per-ride attractions is egregiously discourteous.



Good point. Is it an extra $5 or $50? At this point it could be anything.



bashuck said:


> What is the second most popular ride at MK? Seems like a tiny difference between 2&3 as I don't know which is which.



Maybe Seven Dwarfs and Space Mountain? In 2022 Tron is definitely going to take the #1 spot.


----------



## JPinkc

Thats a given and that will be an insane price to skip the line.


----------



## HopperFan

bashuck said:


> What is the second most popular ride at MK? Seems like a tiny difference between 2&3 as I don't know which is which.



I'm going with 7DMT and another ride that most the family can ride aka more money paid - Splash Mountain for now.  After that I'm going with Tron.


----------



## JakeAZ

The more I think about it, the more the lack of any legitimate on-site advantage (allowing me to get up at 7am to purchase ride times, while an "advantage", isn't something most people will find value in) really irritates me.

I really don't care they decided to charge for this feature.  We all knew it was coming, so I, like many of you, accepted it a long time ago.  It was inevitable.  In fact, I have no issues with paying for convenience or up charges I see value in.  There might be an overall value in this, but it stings to pay the same on vs off site.

The whole gutting of on-site benefits really seems so short sighted and really reinforces the idea that Disney takes their guest's loyalty for granted.

They have seen time and time again that if they rock the boat with a one-sided change, guests will eventually just get used to it.  While that will probably happen here too, I really can't see ever staying on-site, after this trip, again.
Things that are the same price on / off site:
Tickets
Food
Genie
Transportation to / from (staring 2022)
Special Events (maybe you get to buy your ticket early or get $10 off, but that's nothing)
Souvenirs
VIP
Parking
I'm sure I've missed some

I can't wait to see what Universal has to say about this as they always seem to know how to hilariously point out the obvious flaws in Disney's "value" proposition.


----------



## DisLiss

I have no interest whatsoever in Genie planning my day for me.  Time will tell whether I decide to take him up on his "Lightning Lane" options.


----------



## crazymomof4

Arianabtd said:


> Just got the email... my trip is late november so I was bracing for it


We check in Oct 6 and no email.


----------



## JPinkc

THe biggest problem with all this is when EVERYONE is trying to use Genie+ for 15 bucks a pop arent we just paying for the lines we were already standing in for Standby?


----------



## Shir Kahn

boop0524 said:


> I genuinely would like to know…how does the average person who doesn’t keep up with Disney news understand how to navigate the parks? There’s park reservations, new rules for park hopping, mobile ordering, restaurant reservations, boarding groups, all these new Genie things, constantly changing mask rules, etc. etc. It’s making my head spin!


Those are the people who get back from vacation and tell everyone how miserable their vacation was because they just thought they could wing everything.  I don't know if we'll be going back until Chapek is gone, so maybe we'll have forgotten how to do most of this stuff by then too.


----------



## tinkerhon

SealedSeven said:


> Disneyland is $20 a day and includes photopass.... WDW continues to squeeze money out by keeping that separate
> 
> $15 a day seems fine, but it's per guest. so $15 x 5 days x 8 guests (my next trip example) = $600 extra dollars for the trip....



So, quick math for us---    Family of three--- 7 park days----   45x 7=.  $315 for JUST tier 2 (if I understand this correctly) 
Sounds great !!  (


----------



## graciedad

VandVsmama said:


> That's what people used to say about FP, but if you were smart about it, you could get a lot per day.  I know we certainly did all the times we used Max Pass at DL...totally worth the $10-$20/day that we paid there every time.


I love maxpass too, but it’s completely different at WDW. DLR has so many rides that it’s worth it. I don’t see WDW matching that experience with way fewer rides.


----------



## matthewthompson87

Dave006 said:


> They are not pay per ride attractions.
> 
> You have the option to purchase 2 time specific rides on the Tier 1 group per day just like making an ADR for Breakfast, Lunch or Dinner.
> 
> You also have the option of using VQ for rides that support that feature and the normal queue for rides that don't use the VQ option.
> 
> *Note: the number of Individual Attraction times will be limited just like ADRs.*
> 
> Dave



You’ve just described a system where you pay per ride without waiting and pay per meal without waiting.

And the point of my post was that they’re clearly afraid of announcing the range of the pay per ride reservation price.


----------



## sbbwdw

What is with the day of fastpass?  You have to book park reservations in advance.  Is it because they think if you do not get the rides you want in advance you will switch or cancel that park? Once you are there you are more locked in?


----------



## SansComic

I don’t have a family yet, but this new system seems really bad for families. Take a family of four, for example. If they all want to ride Frozen, and it’s only guaranteed without a wait time as an individual lightning lane attraction for purchase at $10/ person….that’s $40 for one family to ride Frozen. Chances are, though, it’ll be more than $10 a person. That must really be a tough pill to swallow to tell your young kids that they simply can’t go on a ride without waiting for HOURS.


----------



## ctl

wgeo said:


> If you can only make one at a time what's the benefit to the resort guests booking at 7am?  Are these going to be very limited.  So people will be paying an upcharge of 15/person and taking only whats available?   Sounds miserable.
> 
> I can't believe how much Disney is nickel and diming everyone, its really turning me off.   SO much that used to be included is now an upcharge and there is zero reason to stay on site and pay ridiculous inflated hotel prices if there are no longer tangible benefits.


Absolutely agree with you 100%


----------



## Jimmy Mouse

Everything is coming full circle. Digital ticket books. Yay!


----------



## SansComic

Dave006 said:


> They are not pay per ride attractions.
> 
> You have the option to purchase 2 time specific rides on the Tier 1 group per day just like making an ADR for Breakfast, Lunch or Dinner.
> 
> You also have the option of using VQ for rides that support that feature and the normal queue for rides that don't use the VQ option.
> 
> *Note: the number of Individual Attraction times will be limited just like ADRs.*
> 
> Dave



Um what? That’s definitely a pay-per-ride. The only way you can be *guaranteed* to get on certain highly coveted rides, is to pay in advance to book a reserved time slot. For example, if I want to ride on Slinky without waiting three hours, the only way I will be able to do that is to pay — i.e. Pay for Slinky, pay per ride.


----------



## TinkB278

Waking up at 7 am every single day of my vacation just doesn’t seem like a perk at all.


----------



## JakeAZ

TinkB278 said:


> Waking up at 7 am every single day of my vacation just doesn’t seem like a perk at all.


Well, what if you could wake up at 7am and be allowed to pay for ride access?  Would that help?


----------



## Airb330

We all knew FP+ at WDW would be monetized. However, I didn’t think they’d go this “all in.” I would’ve kept the fastpass name. My simplified system would be:

Everyone gets 1 FP+  This is for offsite guests. Book 7 days ahead. You already have your park pass and dining planned; weather forecasts are getting better at this point. You’re excited the trip is only a week away. Includes headliners still.

Staying at Disney? You get 2 FP+ 7 days ahead. Maybe 14 days? 3 for deluxe snd DVC. This incentivizes staying on property, which is a large revenue stream with, I’d assume, a high margin?

You want extra? OK, you pay per ride while you’re in the park. It’s called a Genie Wish. Maybe every once in awhile one pops up for free, like magic.

Not saying this is great (I’d still prefer the old system) but it would make a ton and everyone feels they’re getting _something_. There’s no 7AM wake ups except for VQ.

Either way, ticket prices go up so build that $15pp they’re charging for Genie+ right into the ticket and then even extra €£¥$ is earned through the Genie wish.

The perception of value is important. The new system they unveiled today I think will make them a ton but sour some guests taste, and if the standby lines are very long—“first timers” will _still_ come back and say it’s crowded and (more) expensive to their friends and family.


----------



## crazymomof4

scrappinginontario said:


> I'm interested to see if this is an opt in by day option.  We normally purchase 7 or 8 day tickets.  I might add this for a couple of days but wouldn't need it for every day.  Hoping it isn't like park hopper where you're either in or out.





Ensusieasm said:


> that’s my question too



If it IS like DLR's MaxPass, then you add it on to multipark tickets THE DAY OF, once you are in the park, and just to that park day.


----------



## squirk

matthewthompson87 said:


> And the point of my post was that they’re clearly afraid of announcing the range of the pay per ride reservation price



^ This.  

They are totally pinging us with the loose concept, without specifics, to see how much or how little outrage there is.


----------



## JakeAZ

Airb330 said:


> Staying at Disney? You get 2 FP+ 7 days ahead. Maybe 14 days? 3 for deluxe snd DVC. This incentivizes staying on property, which is a large revenue stream with, I’d assume, a high margin?


Couldn't agree more.  Making the program the same for the day guest, staying off-site, who will also most likely eat off-site and visit other attractions is ridiculous.  But hey, it will save me (literally) thousands if we do another trip.


----------



## ShirikiUtundu

Disney really is just turning into a series of microtransactions, what an awful way to vacation. No relaxation whatsoever.


----------



## corinascot

We've been to WDW and stayed on site a number of times. I was a FP master. Then I learned to be a FP+ master. I have NEVER reacted to a change by saying, "We are DONE with WDW!" but this might do it for us.  They basically upped ticket prices by $20 PLUS. It's the plus that bothers me, the Lightening Lane a la carte. That could add up to some considerable money.

 And it's also the principle of the thing. We're all supposed to be one happy family at WDW; not the haves and have nots. (I know there are the VIP plaid tours, but....) 

The Genie function doesn't do much for me. I was never that impressed with Magic Your Way or MyMagic. I'd rather rely on our past experience and knowledge of WDW plus an app from an unnamed private site. 

End of an era. Sad.


----------



## vicarrieous

As the planner of our family, I hate that I now have to wake up at 7am each day if we opt to use this. I don't want to WING my park day were I already have dining reservations and park pass for. Let me book my options in advance lol


----------



## jojomoore

bsmcneil said:


> I'm super disappointed. I've felt on the fence, waiting to see what perks might be extended to on-site guests, given everything. I just don't see the point with them (WDW) any more.


It is disappointing that Disney is charging for what used to be included in the price of admission. WDW  is now saying its a perk to book at 7 am but guests are still going to have to pay extra to get the benefit of the perk. I feel like this is classifying rides into 3 tiers which is understandable but telling  a guest that they arent allowed to ride a popular ride without paying extra for it or taking up a large amount of time to experience the ride just doesn’t seem right (Given the expense that has already been incurred just to be there and that it wont be a level playing  field). I think that one free fastpass for top tier and one free fastpass for  2nd tier should be included as part of admission. in my opinion, extended hours were the best benefit. way more of a benefit than walking around with a cell phone in your hand all day. WDW should have just increased the ticket price per person per day.  This could really backfire for WDW unless this genie is a genius. This will shorten the length of the average stay  and make it harder for families to sleep-in, making them feel like they have to tour from sun up to sun down. that destroys the disney magic and all the wonderful amenities and atmosphere disney has created.


----------



## Sarabi's Cubs

So is Genie+ something you purchase at the same time as your tickets as part of that process or through MDE? I assume there must be some way to add these options if you've already purchased tickets for upcoming trips.


----------



## princessfionasmom

Lehuaann said:


> DAS, check out this part...
> 
> https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/g...-service/?CMP=ILC-DPFY21Q4wo0812210818210024CView attachment 598099


I don’t think this part is anything new. I think this has always been the case.


----------



## SansComic

vicarrieous said:


> As the planner of our family, I hate that I now have to wake up at 7am each day if we opt to use this. I don't want to WING my park day were I already have dining reservations and park pass for. Let me book my options in advance lol



Yup. This is every trip planner’s worst nightmare. Ok, the Disney Genie might be the worst, but the Genie+ is a close second. No way am I going to let an app dictate the most “efficient” day by planning where I should go, and when. No app is that smart.


----------



## vicarrieous

SansComic said:


> Yup. This is every trip planner’s worst nightmare. Ok, the Disney Genie might be the worst, but the Genie+ is a close second. No way am I going to let an app dictate the most “efficient” day by planning where I should go, and when. No app is that smart.



Exactly! and let's be real, Disney isn't interested in making a efficient plan where I wait less and spend less. Its more apt to send me where it wants so I end up spending MORE time and MORE money.


----------



## tinkerhon

wgeo said:


> If you can only make one at a time what's the benefit to the resort guests booking at 7am?  Are these going to be very limited.  So people will be paying an upcharge of 15/person and taking only whats available?   Sounds miserable.
> 
> I can't believe how much Disney is nickel and diming everyone, its really turning me off.   SO much that used to be included is now an upcharge and there is zero reason to stay on site and pay ridiculous inflated hotel prices if there are no longer tangible benefits.



Wait---  so you get the THRILL of having to wake up at the butt-crack of dawn on your vacation- and you can only make ONE at a time? I assumed you would be able to do both?   When would you book the other?  Once you are in the park?  And what about the tier 1's ?   When would you buy/book those ?   This just gets better and better. Nice job Disney !!


----------



## JakeAZ

JPinkc said:


> arent we just paying for the lines we were already standing in for Standby?


I can see the Genie pitch now.

 “What if we get them to pay to make them think they are avoiding a line, but in reality, they will spend the same time waiting to actually ride”

“oh so kinda like when we started closing the parks early and charging a second admission for shorter lines?”

“yep, also like when we charged to get a better “view” of fireworks”

“but what if they complain?”

“so what. They always complain, but then just accept it”

“meeting adjourned”


----------



## tgarre06

JakeAZ said:


> I can see the Genie pitch now.
> 
> “What if we get them to pay to make them think they are avoiding a line, but in reality, they will spend the same time waiting to actually ride”
> 
> “oh so kinda like when we started closing the parks early and charging a second admission for shorter lines?”
> 
> “yep, also like when we charged to get a better “view” of fireworks”
> 
> “but what if they complain?”
> 
> “so what. They always complain, but then just accept it”
> 
> “meeting adjourned”


LMAO


----------



## mustinjourney

matthewthompson87 said:


> The fact that there is no price range mentioned for the pay-per-ride attractions is egregiously discourteous.



they’re waiting to see how people react to this news before deciding how much to drop the hammer down.


----------



## squirk

JakeAZ said:


> I can see the Genie pitch now.
> 
> “What if we get them to pay to make them think they are avoiding a line, but in reality, they will spend the same time waiting to actually ride”
> 
> “oh so kinda like when we started closing the parks early and charging a second admission for shorter lines?”
> 
> “yep, also like when we charged to get a better “view” of fireworks”
> 
> “but what if they complain?”
> 
> “so what. They always complain, but then just accept it”
> 
> “meeting adjourned”



“And if they don’t like it, they are free to go jump in the lake, because there are five ‘fresh’ families right behind them who have no idea how things used to be and thus won’t complain.”


----------



## Airb330

mustinjourney said:


> they’re waiting to see how people react to this news before deciding how much to drop the hammer down.


I think they have a guess but not firm numbers. I bet they may set a ceiling and floor but I’d guess an algorithm is setting the price based on demand that day. The prices at DP aren’t encouraging though.


----------



## cdurham1

Delirium said:


> So much for sleeping in on vacation.  If your plan was to hit the park in the afternoon, you either have to get up at 7 a.m. or take your chances that something decent will be when you are ready to go to the park.


If you were sleeping in, won't affect you.  You were standing in line all day anyway.  #ropedrop


----------



## tgarre06

I agree with everyone upset that Disney is just charging us for benefits we used to get included with our ticket and hotel stay. The sad part for me is that I am one of the those that will pay these up charges to not wait in line and have a more enjoyable vacation. Pathetic.


----------



## cjlong88

The hyperbole that you either have to pay an insane amount of money to ride a highly popular attraction with little to no wait or stand in a three-hour line with this new system doesn't sit well with me. Those aren't our only two options. They never have been and never will be.

If I couldn't get a FP+ for something like SDD or FoP, I had other choices at my disposal other than just waiting in a three-hour line. I can get in line at rope drop. I can hop in line at park close. I can visit during a time of year that is not as crowded. There were always other options and strategies to minimize waits without using FP if I couldn't get one. I've done it before and will continue to do it.

I'm not thrilled about paying for what was once complimentary. This is not defending Genie or the decisions corporate is making. But man, it's so freaking hard to judge something until I see it in action. How can anyone pretend that they know exactly how the Genie service will change how guests experience the parks?


----------



## Gordo Gato

cdurham1 said:


> If you were sleeping in, won't affect you. You were standing in line all day anyway. #ropedrop


Or you had 3 prebooked midday fast passes.


----------



## Ermise

A summary of new charges for things previously included in our last trip in February '19, assuming we go in Feb '22 (Apr '20 trip cancelled) for our family of 5:

$160 - Roundtrip airport transportation: $32 x 5 "adults" (standard Mears service)
$525 - Genie+ = $15 x 5 x 7 days in the park
$900 - access to Extended Evening Hours (requires upgrading our usual stay in the Cabins at Fort Wilderness to a split stay at the least expensive Deluxe resort for 3 nights requiring 5 people to sleep in 3 beds one of which is a day bed; a 1 bedroom suite would be even more)
$1,400 - A la carte access to 2 top tier rides not included with Genie+ at each park each day = $20 x 5 x 2 x 7 (rumor is a la carte prices ranging from $4 to $24 per ride, per person- assuming top tier rides closer to the $24 price)

*$2,985 Total*

Would we actually pay $1,400 for 2 a la carte rides each day over a week? Absolutely not but I just wanted to highlight the possible cost. Even $700 for one top tier ride each day is a considerable cost.


----------



## mustinjourney

Airb330 said:


> I think they have a guess but not firm numbers. I bet they may set a ceiling and floor but I’d guess an algorithm is setting the price based on demand that day. The prices at DP aren’t encouraging though.


If buzz is $18…tron is going to be $30+


----------



## Tuffcookie

I am so happy I never bought into DVC! Planning a WDW vacation takes all the relaxation out of a vacation!

TC


----------



## Lehuaann

princessfionasmom said:


> I don’t think this part is anything new. I think this has always been the case.



Blogs and CMs are stating/insinuating the wording is new. Very explicit, permanently banned and passes forfeited/not refunded.


----------



## mustinjourney

Ermise said:


> A summary of new charges for things previously included in our last trip in February '19, assuming we go in Feb '21 (Apr '20 trip cancelled) for our family of 5:
> 
> $160 - Roundtrip airport transportation: $32 x 5 "adults" (standard Mears service)
> $525 - Genie+ = $15 x 5 x 7 days in the park
> $900 - access to Extended Evening Hours (requires upgrading our usual stay in the Cabins at Fort Wilderness to a split stay at the least expensive Deluxe resort for 3 nights requiring 5 people to sleep in 3 beds one of which is a day bed; a 1 bedroom suite would be even more)
> $1,400 - A la carte access to 2 top tier rides not included with Genie+ at each park each day = $20 x 5 x 2 x 7 (rumor is a la carte prices ranging from $4 to $24 per ride, per person- assuming top tier rides closer to the $24 price)
> 
> *$2,985 Total*
> 
> Would we actually pay $1,400 for 2 a la carte rides each day over a week? Absolutely not but I just wanted to highlight the possible cost. Even $700 for one top tier ride each day is a considerable cost.



It really is quite insane.


----------



## JakeAZ

Tuffcookie said:


> I am so happy I never bought into DVC! Planning a WDW vacation takes all the relaxation out of a vacation!
> 
> TC


It’s all one sided changes at top of the market pricing.


----------



## ninafeliz

We are a family of 6, and for our last trip we did 6 park days.  So just for the basic genie + that would be $540 extra.  Then, let’s say we did decide to buy 2 extra E rides a day (and I’ll go with $25 a person for ease and because I think that’s not an unlikely guess).  That’s $1800.  So to get what used to be essentially included (ie free) we would pay an additional $2340 on top of our tickets.  Wowza.  I’m usually all about add ons and splurges, but that’s not happening.  Plus it doesn’t feel like an add on, because it used to be included.  I told my DH, who is generally huge on paying for convenience, about this, and he wasn’t interested at all and said he’s getting tired of this all.  It’s getting too expensive and too difficult.


----------



## Gordo Gato

Lehuaann said:


> Blogs and CMs are stating the wording is new. Very explicit, permanently banned and passes forfeited/not refunded.


What?


----------



## ChanaC

Sarabi's Cubs said:


> So is Genie+ something you purchase at the same time as your tickets as part of that process or through MDE? I assume there must be some way to add these options if you've already purchased tickets for upcoming trips.



I bet both. They will probably want you to buy it as you are buying your package (room, tickets, dining plan, etc.) but I could imagine them heavily pushing it in the parks. Kind of one of those "hey, does the Space Mountain line look ridiculous to you? Well good news if you have an extra $15..." Universal and SeaWorld push their paid express passes within the park a lot and you can buy it midday if you want. I think SeaWorld also has a pay-per-ride option as well.


----------



## JakeAZ

ninafeliz said:


> Plus it doesn’t feel like an add on, because it used to be included.


Such a great point!


----------



## tinkerhon

Ermise said:


> A summary of new charges for things previously included in our last trip in February '19, assuming we go in Feb '21 (Apr '20 trip cancelled) for our family of 5:
> 
> $160 - Roundtrip airport transportation: $32 x 5 "adults" (standard Mears service)
> $525 - Genie+ = $15 x 5 x 7 days in the park
> $900 - access to Extended Evening Hours (requires upgrading our usual stay in the Cabins at Fort Wilderness to a split stay at the least expensive Deluxe resort for 3 nights requiring 5 people to sleep in 3 beds one of which is a day bed; a 1 bedroom suite would be even more)
> $1,400 - A la carte access to 2 top tier rides not included with Genie+ at each park each day = $20 x 5 x 2 x 7 (rumor is a la carte prices ranging from $4 to $24 per ride, per person- assuming top tier rides closer to the $24 price)
> 
> *$2,985 Total*
> 
> Would we actually pay $1,400 for 2 a la carte rides each day over a week? Absolutely not but I just wanted to highlight the possible cost. Even $700 for one top tier ride each day is a considerable cost.



If we got to go on the ride with Mickey and Minnie sitting next to us feeding us grapes, it would not be worth $24 !


----------



## WVU Disney Fan

Sorry if already asked but can you do both Genie+ and individual headliners at same time?  Can you have genie+ ride booked and an individual E-ticket ride booked simultaneously?


----------



## Crusader10hky

I will preface this with stating that I don’t like this one bit.

BUT….I’m trying to look at it from a different angle.

Ok so it seems like the top top tier attractions won't be included with +. If I want to take a positive spin on this here it is. With fast pass+ , if you wanted to ride FOP and couldn't get a FP,  you spent hours (2,3, sometimes 4?!) in an unmoving line, right?

During the time of no FP, the line moved. It was long, but it moved. 1-1.5 hrs?

If it were included in genie + which probably like 75% of people are going to pay for (based on zero facts), it wouldn't be quite as bad as FP+ times, but would be close.

With that NOT included in genie plus, you're hopefully drastically reducing the number of people you are accommodating via Lightning  Lane keeping it as close to a level playing field as possible and closer to a moving line. 

Also, although they did say the individual pricing would limit you to 1 or 2 ‘most popular attractions’ per day, it didn’t necessarily say that there are more than 1 of these in each park. They made a point to say you can reserve these at different parks on the same day. You could make the argument that the only rides on that list might be : 

Flight of Passage
Rise of the Resistance
Ratatouille 
7 Dwarves Mine Train

I think it’s unlikely that they would limit it to this list, but I wouldn’t be terribly surprised if they didn’t expand it much beyond it.

Just a bunch of speculative thoughts from my overactive Disbrain, filling in the holes that their lack of detail left.


----------



## JakeAZ

ChanaC said:


> I bet both. They will probably want you to buy it as you are buying your package (room, tickets, dining plan, etc.) but I could imagine them heavily pushing it in the parks. Kind of one of those "hey, does the Space Mountain line look ridiculous to you? Well good news if you have an extra $15..." Universal and SeaWorld push their paid express passes within the park a lot and you can buy it midday if you want. I think SeaWorld also has a pay-per-ride option as well.


You’re gonna see it everywhere. The program is all profit. They are selling air.


----------



## Richelle305

Ermise said:


> A summary of new charges for things previously included in our last trip in February '19, assuming we go in Feb '21 (Apr '20 trip cancelled) for our family of 5:
> 
> $160 - Roundtrip airport transportation: $32 x 5 "adults" (standard Mears service)
> $525 - Genie+ = $15 x 5 x 7 days in the park
> $900 - access to Extended Evening Hours (requires upgrading our usual stay in the Cabins at Fort Wilderness to a split stay at the least expensive Deluxe resort for 3 nights requiring 5 people to sleep in 3 beds one of which is a day bed; a 1 bedroom suite would be even more)
> $1,400 - A la carte access to 2 top tier rides not included with Genie+ at each park each day = $20 x 5 x 2 x 7 (rumor is a la carte prices ranging from $4 to $24 per ride, per person- assuming top tier rides closer to the $24 price)
> 
> *$2,985 Total*
> 
> Would we actually pay $1,400 for 2 a la carte rides each day over a week? Absolutely not but I just wanted to highlight the possible cost. Even $700 for one top tier ride each day is a considerable cost.


On top of becoming more expensive to the point of feeling nickel-and-dimed the planning became a lot more stressful.


----------



## Lehuaann

Gordo Gato said:


> What?



Regarding Disability Access Service abuse. DAS overhauled with Genie


----------



## JPinkc

mustinjourney said:


> It really is quite insane.



I agree but Disney is TONE DEAF to all complaints.  THey shut down the comments section on the Disney Parks blog after 3 comments.


----------



## EpcotPhoenician

*The Million Dollar Question:*

Will Disney Genie tell Guests that waiting in line for Spaceship Earth prior to late afternoon is a _good_ idea?


----------



## JPinkc

Like I said earlier as was pointed out to me.  This is just making Genie+ or Lightning Lane the NEW Standby line.  They raised ticket prices without raising them.  Now the PAID Ride Now option is where they will STick it to us!!!


----------



## Tuffcookie

JakeAZ said:


> It’s all one sided changes at top of the market pricing.


Whatever that means?


----------



## JakeAZ

Tuffcookie said:


> Whatever that means?


I was replying to your post about you being glad you didn’t buy DVC.
DVC has top of the market pricing and all the changes Disney is announcing are (mostly) one-sided.


----------



## Marissa227

I haven't read through all 24 pages so I'm sure someone has already mentioned this but.... the thought of being up at 7am every day of my vacation stressing out while the rest of my family sleeps does not sound exciting at all.


----------



## TwoMisfits

I will say my spouse now says, after this change, he never wants to go back.  We almost went on our May 2021 trip (we have 1 day nonexpiring tickets), but the entertainment was closed, so we didn't want to "give more for less" (since the payment was done with old Disney reward credit)...now, I'm gonna have to think if I'm gonna save these tickets til cheap-o Chapek is gone...


----------



## moorish

Sarabi's Cubs said:


> So is Genie+ something you purchase at the same time as your tickets as part of that process or through MDE? I assume there must be some way to add these options if you've already purchased tickets for upcoming trips.




__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1428165199320780804
This isn't straight from Disney - so grain of salt- but it sounds like you can either pay to add it to your full length of ticket in advance or you can pay for it day-by-day the day of.


----------



## tinkerhon

Personally, I am waiting for paid toilet paper options. 

A perk for resort guests. 

Disney can call it "TP Tiers"-   You get the option of using the actual toilet paper, (Tier 1) for a fee ...or, the paper wrapper,  for free.


----------



## JakeAZ

TwoMisfits said:


> til cheap-o Chapek is gone...


When he leaves, Disney is not becoming a non-profit.


----------



## TwoMisfits

JakeAZ said:


> When he leaves, Disney is not becoming a non-profit.



No, but they might actually re-become a business which remembers the triangle of employees, customers, and stockholders and keeping all 3 happy and in balance to be a long term success vs the one they are now, focused on a single leg and short term success...


----------



## Jennasis

SansComic said:


> Yup. This is every trip planner’s worst nightmare. Ok, the Disney Genie might be the worst, but the Genie+ is a close second. No way am I going to let an app dictate the most “efficient” day by planning where I should go, and when. No app is that smart.




Or in this case, the app.


----------



## tinkerhon

moorish said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1428165199320780804
> This isn't straight from Disney - so grain of salt- but it sounds like you can either pay to add it to your full length of ticket in advance or you can pay for it day-by-day the day of.



Wait.. by "full length of ticket" -- you are just paying for your number of PARK days, correct?  Would hate to be paying for extra days-(-- if we are booked for 10-day stay, but only doing 7 park days. )

Nothing would surprise me at this point .


----------



## EPCOT-O.G.

JakeAZ said:


> I was replying to your post about you being glad you didn’t buy DVC.
> DVC has top of the market pricing and all the changes Disney is announcing are (mostly) one-sided.


I mentioned that to my wife. Imagine having bought into them relatively recently only to see all these changes - no more Magical Express, limits on park reservations, and now this.  Thank GOD I'm not locked in to a lengthy contract!


----------



## tinkerhon

Richelle305 said:


> On top of becoming more expensive to the point of feeling nickel-and-dimed the planning became a lot more stressful.



This is the main problem I have----   yea, I dont like paying extra, but the 7am wake-up is not something to look forward to.


----------



## blabadie

WVU Disney Fan said:


> Sorry if already asked but can you do both Genie+ and individual headliners at same time?  Can you have genie+ ride booked and an individual E-ticket ride booked simultaneously?



Fron what I have read, you can have 2 individual headliners (max for the day) and 1 Genie+ "classic attraction" booked at the same time.  

If staying on site, at 7AM you can book those 2 individual super headliner lightming lane  (probably with multiple return window choices) and can also book your first Genie+  (only "next available" return window time).


----------



## Patrick N

In my opinion, this should be a wake up call for families who traditionally always stay at a Disney Resort to sample an off site stay.  The money you can save is tremendous, and you'll likely have more room to be comfortable in.  The savings can be used for any and all Genie Passes and Lightning Passes and you'll still come out ahead.

Now I understand the lure of the on property stay ( I spent a week at Old Key West in February) and you may be afraid that you won't enjoy your trip as much, but then I would suggest that you stay on property for a short stay, maybe 2 nights, and then move "off shore"  No it's not exactly the same experience, but I think you owe it to yourself to try it and see if it can still be a satisfactory experience.


----------



## EPCOT-O.G.

Patrick N said:


> In my opinion, this should be a wake up call for families who traditionally always stay at a Disney Resort to sample an off site stay.



I did something today I’ve never done before:

I was researching rooms and tickets at Universal.


----------



## WVU Disney Fan

blabadie said:


> Fron what I have read, you can have 2 individual headliners (max for the day) and 1 Genie+ "classic attraction" booked at the same time.
> 
> If staying on site, at 7AM you can book those 2 individual super headliner lightming lane  (probably with multiple return window choices) and can also book your first Genie+  (only "next available" return window time).



Thanks. If this is indeed the case I think I may kind of like this system. I don’t like the upcharge but I’m already paying a fortune at Disney anyways


----------



## ofcabbagesandkings

EPCOT-O.G. said:


> I mentioned that to my wife. Imagine having bought into them relatively recently only to see all these changes - no more Magical Express, limits on park reservations, and now this.  Thank GOD I'm not locked in to a lengthy contract!


After our wonderful (if rainy) last stay in Dec 2019, I was seriously shopping for a resale contract for either AKV or BRV. I’m so, so glad I didn’t get one.


----------



## ofcabbagesandkings

EPCOT-O.G. said:


> I did something today I’ve never done before:
> 
> I was researching rooms and tickets at Universal.



Do it! The deluxe hotels come with free express passes and you can even book rooms with Chase reward points if you got ‘em.  Come over to the dark side, we have butterbeer.


----------



## EPCOT-O.G.

ofcabbagesandkings said:


> Do it! The deluxe hotels come with free express passes and you can even book rooms with Chase reward points if you got ‘em.  Come over to the dark side, we have butterbeer.


Seriously probably our next trip. And we did WDW 3x during COVID (and I did a one day DL trip). I’m rooting for them to fail miserably and have staggering and unimaginable losses to force some humility and aggressiveness to court customers rather than squeeze us dry. So, I’m voting with my pocketbook, which is all they’re fixated on now anyhow.


----------



## JZCubed

cdurham1 said:


> If you were sleeping in, won't affect you.  You were standing in line all day anyway.  #ropedrop


Not at all.

Morning & afternoon time at pricey breakfast, at the swimming pool, recreational boating, golfing, and/or shopping in Disney Springs frequently led to:

Arrive for 3 o’clock parade
4pm/5pm/6pm FP+
6:30 Dinner
Fireworks

Only time we’d wait on a line was the anytime attractions like 3-D movies, shows, & old-time animatics.

Standby-only this summer was horrible.

Now - the expectations of a daily 7am challenge that lacks certainty of ride times along with frequently glitchy Disney software - may finally be too much for some folks.


----------



## ofcabbagesandkings

JZCubed said:


> Not at all.
> 
> Morning & afternoon time at pricey breakfast, at the swimming pool, recreational boating, golfing, and/or shopping in Disney Springs frequently led to:
> 
> Arrive fir 3 o’clock parade
> 4pm/5pm/6pm FP+
> 6:30 Dinner
> Fireworks
> 
> Only time we’d wait on a line was the anytime attractions like 3-D movies, shows, & old-time animatics.
> 
> Standby-only this summer was horrible.
> 
> Now - the expectations of a daily 7am challenge that lacks certainty of ride times along with frequently glitchy Disney software - may finally be too much for some folks.



This 100%. Some days we went to the parks from RD through fireworks, but at least one or two days were lazy mornings with a late breakfast, pool time and rocking up to a park in the late afternoon in time to do 3 FP+ rides before dinner (or food booths, if Epcot). Now any day we want to sleep in we’ll just not buy tickets, maybe spend the whole day by the pool or enjoying the resort.


----------



## JakeAZ

tinkerhon said:


> Wait.. by "full length of ticket" -- you are just paying for your number of PARK days, correct?  Would hate to be paying for extra days-(-- if we are booked for 10-day stay, but only doing 7 park days. )
> 
> Nothing would surprise me at this point .


More than likely there will be a small fee to opt out of Genie on days you are not at the parks, but on property. I’m betting it’s around $15pp per non park day.


----------



## TheDailyMoo

TwoMisfits said:


> No, but they might actually re-become a business which remembers the triangle of employees, customers, and stockholders and keeping all 3 happy and in balance to be a long term success vs the one they are now, focused on a single leg and short term success...


He's never leaving...and if he does there's a clone of him to take his place because Iger the head honcho who started all this money grubbing is the head of the Board of Directors and his regime is all about the bottom line...and making Dis+ the leader in streaming.  Parks? Feh it's just about bringing in as much money as they can.


----------



## DavidNYC

JakeAZ said:


> There's only 7am nonsense if you want to purchase specific rides.  From what I've read, you don't get the 7am head start for regular Genie rides


Nope!  Genie opens at 7am for everyone.  So be up at 7 or resign yourself to not getting a reservation until late in the day.  The “head start” is that resort guests can purchase individual rides at 7 while others can’t do until later.


----------



## tinkerhon

JakeAZ said:


> More than likely there will be a small fee to opt out of Genie on days you are not at the parks, but on property. I’m betting it’s around $15pp per non park day.



Wait--- so $15 pp per day for Genie when you are in the parks, and $15 pp per non park day too ?


----------



## EPCOT-O.G.

JakeAZ said:


> More than likely there will be a small fee to opt out of Genie on days you are not at the parks, but on property. I’m betting it’s around $15pp per non park day.


If you opt out of Genie+ for non-Park days, how do you expect to get into Trader Sam’s or Beaches and Cream? (ducks)


----------



## JakeAZ

EPCOT-O.G. said:


> If you opt out of Genie+ for non-Park days, how do you expect to get into Trader Sam’s or Beaches and Cream? (ducks)


Another small fee of probably $15pp per day.


----------



## SimonSez

We just missed it.  I had a feeling they were gonna do something completely different than FP or FP+    I'll have to read what people are saying about it right here, once it's implemented.  It will be awhile before we get back to Disney.  Maybe they'll have the kinks ironed out by then, or moved on to a different method


----------



## cindycastle30

After reading about half of this thread what stands out to me is how horrible the timing is of this. We are going for the 50th after planning for 10 years of being there. With everything in the world going on right now we have already changed our trip to stay off site and not use our spare annual passes.  I am not paying a fee to get in the door and another to ride the rides that my ticket should provide. We will wait in line this time but our vacation dollars will be going elsewhere in future years. Whats next paying for a dining reservation just to pay for dinne


----------



## JZCubed

ofcabbagesandkings said:


> This 100%. Some days we went to the parks from RD through fireworks, but at least one or two days were lazy mornings with a late breakfast, pool time and rocking up to a park in the late afternoon in time to do 3 FP+ rides before dinner (or food booths, if Epcot). Now any day we want to sleep in we’ll just not buy tickets, maybe spend the whole day by the pool or enjoying the resort.


I am of the opinion that many families will drop a Park day to offset the price increase and/or to avoid the inflexible need to awake before 7am.

Disney may or may not truly profit from the change.

The result could very well be shorter lines.

However, disloyalty to too many could yield a negative result.

My family can afford the price increases, but if they come with daily work & uncertainty - I’ll scratch my head and research some alternatives, beyond Universal, more vigorously.

Further, Disney’s reliance on technology, when they frequently demonstrate weakness, gives me pause to question if I am on vacation at 7am with a glitchy internet connection or overworked app.

Vacations should lower a person’s blood pressure, not needlessly raise it before breakfast everyday.


----------



## JakeAZ

tinkerhon said:


> Wait--- so $15 pp per day for Genie when you are in the parks, and $15 pp per non park day too ?


Sorry, I should have used my sarcasm font.  But I think Disney owns the rights to it and to use it, it's $15pp per day


----------



## tinkerhon

JakeAZ said:


> Sorry, I should have used my sarcasm font.  But I think Disney owns the rights to it and to use it, it's $15pp per day



LOL---  No worries !!  Like I said previously---  nothing would surprise me at this point !!


----------



## Wiltony

JakeAZ said:


> Sorry, I should have used my sarcasm font.  But I think Disney owns the rights to it and to use it, it's $15pp per day


They've said clearly that the use of the genie app is free.  The $15 is for Genie+ which is giving you access to their new downgraded FP+ (I'm now calling it FP-) service.


----------



## JakeAZ

Wiltony said:


> They've said clearly that the use of the genie app is free.  The $15 is for Genie+ which is giving you access to their new downgraded FP+ (I'm now calling it FP-) service.


It was sarcasm.  Use of the Genie app is free.  I've heard to install it though, it's $15pp per day.


----------



## Wiltony

GENIE+ IS NOW FASTPASS-


----------



## gharter

Unfortunately, as my wife pointed out, families will drop $50 per person for a t-shirt, this is a drop in the bucket to get to ride a specific ride.
I don't even want to see what they will charge for a LL pass for ROTR, FoP , GoTG or Tron.  Guaranteed a short wait to ride it?  People will pay it.
i suspect we will be one of them.


----------



## AquaDame

gharter said:


> Unfortunately, as my wife pointed out, families will drop $50 per person for a t-shirt, this is a drop in the bucket to get to ride a specific ride.
> I don't even want to see what they will charge for a LL pass for ROTR, FoP , GoTG or Tron.  Guaranteed a short wait to ride it?  People will pay it.
> i suspect we will be one of them.



Same. I just found out about this about 10 minutes ago and I already feel resigned since we have tickets already for early next year (pushed back twice from our Oct 2020 trip that did not happen). We'll pay what we need to, and if we don't feel like we ended up with a *better* experience due to the new hassle and spending more $$$ then I guess we'll be done until the next revision. Disneyland never felt like a carnival to me, but paying per ride is just somehow a mental block for me. Genie+ is one thing, but per ride? I don't like it...


----------



## TitusPullo

gharter said:


> Unfortunately, as my wife pointed out, families will drop $50 per person for a t-shirt, this is a drop in the bucket to get to ride a specific ride.
> I don't even want to see what they will charge for a LL pass for ROTR, FoP , GoTG or Tron.  Guaranteed a short wait to ride it?  People will pay it.
> i suspect we will be one of them.



So I talked with the wife and we will 100% be using the paid lightning lane for ROTR. 
We had a horrible experience at Disneyland where we were lucky enough to get a boarding group and once we made it into the standby line the ride broke down not once but twice ! It was made clear if we left the queue we would not be allowed to return. 
Due to the nature of that particular ride with breakdowns and the time it takes to “reset” I will pay to not only guarantee access but as an added bonus  get to skip the standby line.


----------



## Wiltony

AquaDame said:


> Disneyland never felt like a carnival to me, but paying per ride is just somehow a mental block for me. Genie+ is one thing, but per ride? I don't like it...


This is exactly how I feel.  Those pay-per-ride carnivals -- great analogy.  I have the same problem with them, and that is how this is making me feel.  Where I can just purchase the "all access wristband" and not worry about all this crap?

This will seriously make visiting more stressful as my brain will be constantly busy with navigating the endlessly varied value propositions that must be evaluated.

This is why people go to all-inclusive resorts even though it's usually not a better value overall.  We *hate* having to make the "buy or not?" purchase decisions over and over again for every little thing.  Pay once, even if a little more, and just not worry about the details, so we can have a relaxed, easy-going vacation.  Transportation, food, admission, activities, etc. all get included and all we have to do is attend and enjoy.   

Disney is going in the opposite direction.  They'll not only drive people away because the cost is getting too high, but they'll also drive those of us away who, even though we might have the money to spend, don't want to be bothered with constantly deciding to spend it.


----------



## JZCubed

gharter said:


> Unfortunately, as my wife pointed out, families will drop $50 per person for a t-shirt, this is a drop in the bucket to get to ride a specific ride.
> I don't even want to see what they will charge for a LL pass for ROTR, FoP , GoTG or Tron.  Guaranteed a short wait to ride it?  People will pay it.
> i suspect we will be one of them.


Tshirts can be worn year round and/or be a reminder of a good time.

How many times does a child need to ride Everest, for instance, to have a good time to remember?

If you get up at 7am, how many times are you willing to shell out, let’s say, $50 to ride Flights of Passage at the 6pm return time that remains available (and in conflict with the fireworks viewing you have planned at CA Grill)?

Disney suggests the Genie algorithm will solve the problem. 

If you’ve ever tried making dining and/or heritage FP+ reservations, you would likely and rightfully have zero faith in the Genie algorithm to solve your problems….unless your problem is to locate the nearest shop to buy a $50 tshirt.


----------



## TangledHairDon'tCare

I’m obvious in the minority here, but I’m looking forward to it!  Loved Maxpass at DL.  I wish it was going to include photopass, but I understand why it doesn’t and to be honest I don’t really do much with all of those photos anyway.  I don’t think it will be necessary for our whole stay, probably only 2 days of a 5 park day trip for us.  I absolutely HATED booking FP 60 days out.  We’ve taken 3 trips over the past year and the first 2 were great without FP but this past July we experienced a lot of long lines.  Looking forward to some new options.


----------



## Amore Disney

They could have avoided the "Nickel-and-Dimed" feeling of this tiered microtransaction system if Disney straight-up copied the Universal Express Pass system that's already successful and established. Yes, pricing is much more expensive, but that also means fewer adopters -> better experience. You can also walk up to any ride without a "return time", without having to be glued to your phone during precious family time. The price of the Express Pass rises with peak season/ weekends, just like Disney is planning to do for Lightning Pass rides anyways. Best of all, every ride except the two newest ones are included - in fact for Hagrids and Velocicoster it's an even playing field for every single ticketed guest.

Now I'm going to be thinking at every single E-ticket ride - "how much is my time worth?". That's a lot of mental gymnastics, and let's just say I wasn't planning on exercising on vacation.


----------



## CapnHook452

GatorChris said:


> SO......I get to pay for FP instead of getting it free. Sounds very class-warfare.


Certain people knew how to game the system before. Now it’s just a a matter of who has more money. Yep- it’s a type of class warfare. Much like everything else in this damn country


----------



## JZCubed

Amore Disney said:


> They could have avoided the "Nickel-and-Dimed" feeling of this tiered microtransaction system if Disney straight-up copied the Universal Express Pass system that's already successful and established. Yes, pricing is much more expensive, but that also means fewer adopters -> better experience. You can also walk up to any ride without a "return time", without having to be glued to your phone during precious family time. The price of the Express Pass rises with peak season/ weekends, just like Disney is planning to do for Lightning Pass rides anyways. Best of all, every ride except the two newest ones are included - in fact for Hagrids and Velocicoster it's an even playing field for every single ticketed guest.
> 
> Now I'm going to be thinking at every single E-ticket ride - "how much is my time worth?". That's a lot of mental gymnastics, and let's just say I wasn't planning on exercising on vacation.


Enjoyed our first Universal experience last week and ease of use of Express system…..

Expectation of daily pre-7am awakenings to experience Disney attractions, not so much.


----------



## Disney-&-Baseball

Barbanellie said:


> Let's say you book a ten day resort and tickets package. Do you all think we can pick and choose which days we'd add Genie+, or would it have to apply to all tickets (like hoppers)? Because if I can have days with Genie+ and days without (where I just stroll around the park, eat snacks and do shorter standby queues), I might find it interesting.


This is how it worked for Maxpass at DL. You could just add it on the app, day of.


----------



## brightlined

There's a part of my brain that feels like Disney is giving Robin Williams the raw end of the stick for the third or fourth time.

I mean, come on Disney, you can't make people hate the Genie.


----------



## mousefan73

emily nicole said:


> Wow. So this makes me pretty glad I switched from POFQ to offsite and saved $1600 (actually $1900 but I’m factoring in $300 to pay for premium parking every day). It doesn’t sound like there is much value to on-site guests here and I say this as a previously VERY loyal on-property guest. Looks like Disney found a way to get my money after all.
> 
> I’ll be waiting to see if Disney realizes their mistake here and makes this better for their on-site folks. I’m not opposed to coming back on-site (only value and mod in my budget) for some perks.



this is mostly likely our last onsite trip. We’ve gone the past 11 years 10 times - on-site.  On site has simply lost its value. We are staying this trip at Pop because we want to experience the Skyliner convenience. In the future the only other resort we might stay at if we get a good deal is Beach club Simply because we love that place.  I dare anyone to go to Expedia and look what you can get nearby, at what price. It’s crazy what hold Disney has on people mentally and keeping them on site. But once valued things of staying on property are taken away -  my brain starts thinking again.  For me it’s the EMH (Now I have to pay for FP  to make up for that lost benefit) and MDE.


----------



## rpfennig

Crusader10hky said:


> I will preface this with stating that I don’t like this one bit.
> 
> BUT….I’m trying to look at it from a different angle.
> 
> Ok so it seems like the top top tier attractions won't be included with +. If I want to take a positive spin on this here it is. With fast pass+ , if you wanted to ride FOP and couldn't get a FP,  you spent hours (2,3, sometimes 4?!) in an unmoving line, right?
> 
> During the time of no FP, the line moved. It was long, but it moved. 1-1.5 hrs?
> 
> If it were included in genie + which probably like 75% of people are going to pay for (based on zero facts), it wouldn't be quite as bad as FP+ times, but would be close.
> 
> With that NOT included in genie plus, you're hopefully drastically reducing the number of people you are accommodating via Lightning  Lane keeping it as close to a level playing field as possible and closer to a moving line.
> 
> Also, although they did say the individual pricing would limit you to 1 or 2 ‘most popular attractions’ per day, it didn’t necessarily say that there are more than 1 of these in each park. They made a point to say you can reserve these at different parks on the same day. You could make the argument that the only rides on that list might be :
> 
> Flight of Passage
> Rise of the Resistance
> Ratatouille
> 7 Dwarves Mine Train
> 
> I think it’s unlikely that they would limit it to this list, but I wouldn’t be terribly surprised if they didn’t expand it much beyond it.
> 
> Just a bunch of speculative thoughts from my overactive Disbrain, filling in the holes that their lack of detail left.



This is kind of where my head went as well after reading through this thread and watching some of the Touring Plans response to this news. For the Tier 1, Lightning Lane purchase only rides like 7DMT the question is what percentage of the queue is available (compared to current Fast Pass levels) and how much it is utilized. If it's the current level (Touring Plans was estimating 75-80%) and fully utilized then it's the same long line as it is currently without the previous option of getting a FP unless I want to pay more (BOO! bash). BUT if the number of FP equivalent slots is lower or not fully utilized then the standby line should be shorter. 

Additionally, if Genie+ is pushing people to other rides included in its list particularly at park open but also throughout the day that should also have an impact. The tier 1 rides still seems like a good rope drop option, particularly if you have the 30 minute Disney early morning as an onsite (or affiliated) guest. Say, you get in at 8:30 as on onsite guest and have a 9:00 park open lightning pass for Peter Pan... you should be able to clear 7DMT and get that 9:00 - 10:00 window for Peter Pan. But for offsite guests, are you going to take that gamble now or just go directly to Peter Pan and pick up your next lightning pass? Does that suppress the rope drop line? And then if more guests are even just using vanilla Genie (versus butterscotch maple Genie+) it's going to be pushing them around the parks in different ways, at what point does it say "120 minute wait for 7DMT, you should get on that" and expect guests to accept that with a straight face.

Long winded way of saying, it's hard for me to see (though to be fair, I do wear glasses) a situation where the number of purchased lightning passes for those Tier 1 rides like 7DMT is equal to the previous level of free fast passes that were picked up which should result in faster standby lines for those rides.

I do think the list of Tier 1 rides is going to be more than just one per park though:
AK: Flight of Passage, ??? okay - already stumped me on the first park, for a second ride - Festival of the Lion King? Expedition Everest?
HS: Rise of the Resistance, Slinky Dog Dash
Epcot: Ratatouille, Frozen (sub out for Cosmic Rewind when it comes on line)
MK: 7 Dwarves Mine Train, Space/Splash Mountain (seasonal substitution? sub out for Tron when it comes on line)

A couple funny things with that (less ha-ha funny and more hmm funny) is that now you're pulling a chunk of what used to be fast pass slots out of the system. Do shows end up in Genie+ when they return? Do they make sense to use a lightning pass on? Overall, it seems like there are going to be fewer fast pass equivalent slots in the system and some weird value decisions (is a lightning lane for Mad Tea Party 30 minutes from now greater/equal/less value than one for Haunted Mansion 90 minutes from now?).

A lot of the cost arguments are treating this as an all or nothing proposition as well, family of 4 for 5 days equals an extra $300 dollars but does Genie+ make sense in all the parks? I can see it's value in MK or HS but it seems a bit dodgy in Epcot and AK. If you're going to be doing standby for FOP in AK anyways (an extra $$$ to skip the line or suck it up buttercup(s) and we'll get ice cream after) you can probably navigate the rest of the park with some longer waits but trails and train rides as wait time pressure releases and similarly in Epcot you can focus your energy on getting the Ratatouille virtual queue while the butterscotch maple Genie+ users are scrambling to get Spaceship Earth lightning passes at 7 AM. Again, it's still an extra cost even if you just use it for MK and HS but, oh... to be in the meeting when they go over Genie+ adoption rates at different parks, that will be interesting. I think they are drawing on the Max Pass experience from Disneyland and perhaps forgetting the way the proximity of the parks to each other there contributed to its success. If I can split out days where I don't need it ("We spend most of our Epcot day in World Showcase", "We just want to hit Hollywood Studios in the morning to walk around Galaxy's Edge while we wait for our ROTR boarding group and then have a pool day", "Kids, it's time you learned an important lesson about how cruel and unforgiving the world can be... we're going to the Magic Kingdom and not using any lightning passes today.") from the days where it would be a benefit ("Sorry about yesterday kids, let's try this Genie+ thing at Magic Kingdom today") then maybe it's a bit less of an additional charge (still... an additional charge so... we're back to BOO! bash).


----------



## twincruisers

WVU Disney Fan said:


> Sorry if already asked but can you do both Genie+ and individual headliners at same time?  Can you have genie+ ride booked and an individual E-ticket ride booked simultaneously?


They are individual optional add-ons. You can do one or the other or both. So yes, you can have a G+ and $LL (up to 2) at the same time.


----------



## brightlined

rpfennig said:


> I do think the list of Tier 1 rides is going to be more than just one per park though:
> AK: Flight of Passage, ??? okay - already stumped me on the first park, for a second ride - Festival of the Lion King? Expedition Everest?
> HS: Rise of the Resistance, Slinky Dog Dash
> Epcot: Ratatouille, Frozen (sub out for Cosmic Rewind when it comes on line)
> MK: 7 Dwarves Mine Train, Space/Splash Mountain (seasonal substitution? sub out for Tron when it comes on line)


If AK has more than one Tier 1 (and I would question that), I'd bet it'd be Safaris. (Two years ago, it would have been Navi River Journey.)

MK is a tough one. 7DMT is obvious, but I can't imagine that any of the other rides really rise to that level. It's one of the main problems that the MK has had - almost everything in the park is (very) old. (In the FP+ era, it was the only park where all of the rides were treated equally.)

The real question is how far they go with Tier 1. In the FP+ era, DHS had by far the most top-tier rides - there's an argument that they could throw MMRR and/or ToT in there, just at a lower price threshold than ROTR. (I'm gently skeptical of that, if only because they didn't throw MF:SR in there.)


----------



## Queen2PrincessG

snowybelle said:


> Literally the opposite of socialism, but go off... lol.


I shall, I mean in terms of the tiers. There are different forms of socialism and differs models behind each. What this adds after the resort tiers, dining tiers, vip tiers is now a ride tier. Maybe you prefer caste system?


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## kitkat4622

EPCOT-O.G. said:


> I did something today I’ve never done before:
> 
> I was researching rooms and tickets at Universal.


Me too. I am done. I will spend my time and money elsewhere. Not paying more for less anymore. That's just my opinion


----------



## Kbrb

YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! id like to ask who ever came up with this how they intend on selling this to international guests? Most of us book 2 weeks onsite....... 2 weeks of upcharge or 2 weeks of utter hell in lines. Well in Disney well in.

Im up at 6am crunching numbers, moving offsite will save me £1300 enough to drive in pay for few of these things and still pay for seaworld and Uni. I will miss Disney it gave me and family memories of a life time but enough is enough.


----------



## brightlined

EPCOT-O.G. said:


> I did something today I’ve never done before:
> 
> I was researching rooms and tickets at Universal.


I wish people wouldn't say this every time Disney does something they don't like. (And you're allowed to not like this.)


Universal's Express Pass is a much more expensive version of what people are mostly complaining about here.

It's not like Universal's immune from this kind of behavior. For example, if you buy a Universal AP, you still have to pay for parking on the first visit (unless you go after 6pm).

(And I'll gently nudge that the two most recent ride additions at USP are two of the worst theme park rides of the last thirty years.)


EDIT: USP is just Universal Studios Park, UO is the entire resort. I was specifically referring to Fast & Furious and Fallon.


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## Kbrb

brightlined said:


> I wish people wouldn't say this every time Disney does something they don't like. (And you're allowed to not like this.)



Wish? did you pay your $15? is it a top tier wish? peak time? another $20 please.


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## Silock

Queen2PrincessG said:


> I shall, I mean in terms of the tiers. There are different forms of socialism and differs models behind each. What this adds after the resort tiers, dining tiers, vip tiers is now a ride tier. Maybe you prefer caste system?


But that's not socialism. Socialism would be more like some people paying a little more for the Genie+ and everyone gets that distributed benefit. This is quite literally late stage capitalism, where those with money have access to buying out any competition- the competition in this case being anyone else who wants to enjoy an attraction at the same time.


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## fairyprincess88

brightlined said:


> I wish people wouldn't say this every time Disney does something they don't like. (And you're allowed to not like this.)
> 
> 
> Universal's Express Pass is a much more expensive version of what people are mostly complaining about here.
> 
> It's not like Universal's immune from this kind of behavior. For example, if you buy a Universal AP, you still have to pay for parking on the first visit (unless you go after 6pm).
> 
> (And I'll gently nudge that the two most recent ride additions at USP are two of the worst theme park rides of the last thirty years.)



Yes if you purchase Express Pass on a busy day in a prime week it costs a lot.  However you could also pay that fee(sometimes less) and get a night in one of their deluxe resorts and get unlimited express pass for your entire party for both your check in day and check out day.  Plus, unlike Disney their deluxe resorts are truly deluxe and cost less and you're a short walk or boat ride away from the parks.  You don't have to be on a schedule, you can ride all but 2 rides as many times as you want to or can with express and there is no stress of getting up early and scrambling for a reservation and you can park hop back and forth if you want.  As for the 2 non-express rides, on busy days Hagrids runs a VQ(which even allows you to push back your return time if something happens and you might not make it) and Velocicoaster runs like a beast and churns through people pretty quickly.   Plus they are so amazing even waiting for an hour for them is worth it and with the rest of the rides having express that time in line isn't going cause you to loose out on other attractions.  

Universal Express is expensive compared to the Genie+ but it doesn't work like Genie+ at all.  There is no scheduling, there is no other up charges and you are not limited in anyway other than with the 2 rides not on it.  And like I said, you can get it for the whole family for two days with just a one night resort stay if you want.


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## Queen2PrincessG

Silock said:


> But that's not socialism. Socialism would be more like some people paying a little more for the Genie+ and everyone gets that distributed benefit. This is quite literally late stage capitalism, where those with money have access to buying out any competition- the competition in this case being anyone else who wants to enjoy an attraction at the same time.


Or a little more for VIP tours. Like I said multiple forms of the very multiple definition of socialism. I’m speaking more to the larger various definitions and types. Either way, this system is a glorified money grab from Disney. 0 stars.


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## Lashed34

brightlined said:


> (And I'll gently nudge that the two most recent ride additions at USP are two of the worst theme park rides of the last thirty years.)



Hagrid's is an incredible ride, we absolutely loved it! And Velcoicoaster....one of the worst theme park rides in the last 30 years??? Seriously....no words other than....IT'S INCREDIBLE!!!


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## Disneyliscious

brightlined said:


> Universal's Express Pass is a much more expensive version of what people are mostly complaining about here.



You seem to be forgetting that Universals UNLIMITED Express Pass comes FREE to EVERY member in your hotel room if you stay at one of their Premier hotels. Mind you, I just paid $224 per night at one of their Premier Hotels (AP rate - reg rate was around $389 but STILL a deal)  which came with an UNLIMITED Express Pass ($129 per person per day) for up to 5 people in our room for TWO DAYS (check in and check out days). Disney isn't even in the same league as this.


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## katyringo

Ya know.. I am not going to go with the crowd here..
 I’m excited for this. I think that given a chance this could really be something good.
Yes it’s an up charge and the “I’m tired of paying more for less” crowd are going to struggle..

but I think this will overall make a more enjoyable expirence in the parks and just like everything else we will learn to navigate and strategize it.


----------



## Kbrb

katyringo said:


> Ya know.. I am not going to go with the crowd here..
> I’m excited for this. I think that given a chance this could really be something good.
> Yes it’s an up charge and the “I’m tired of paying more for less” crowd are going to struggle..
> 
> but I think this will overall make a more enjoyable expirence in the parks and just like everything else we will learn to navigate and strategize it.



The only way this is more enjoyable is if your willing to throw sums of cash at the mouse. Im sure for some this will be a dream come true no more lines ever again and that is totally fine. The question is are there enough people willing to do it or will the standby lines become stupidly long?


----------



## katyringo

Kbrb said:


> The only way this is more enjoyable is if your willing to throw sums of cash at the mouse. Im sure for some this will be a dream come true no more lines ever again and that is totally fine. The question is are there enough people willing to do it or will the standby lines become stupidly long?



I think I have an easier time of it because we started as Disneyland goers and maxpass was just part of our budget and actually disliked fastpass plus.


----------



## Kbrb

katyringo said:


> I think I have an easier time of it because we started as Disneyland goers and maxpass was just part of our budget and actually disliked fastpass plus.




Thats a good point, id guess that first timers to will just see as part of the budget not knowing any different.

Different note i wonder how long they leave the comments on the youtube videos, they are getting roasted and notched up 1.5k dislikes already


----------



## Froxfield

Sorry Disney, as an international guest, I will not be paying for any of these new amazing "benefits".  Our next trip is a little over two weeks staying on-site next spring.  Usually we get up for park opening and are on our way back to the hotel by lunchtime.  Getting long multi-day passes we are paying much less for park entry (around $80 per day).  I doubt if we will use the free planner feature either.  We will see how things pan out using our usual strategy of early rising and getting as much done as possible still works for us.  If it doesn't (but I expect it will) then it may be Disney is over for us.  We are lucky that there isn't any "must do" ride for us after quite a lot of vacations.  Basically we pass on any queue of more than 25 minutes.  Star Wars is of little interest (so RoR is ho hum), Marvel of even less interest!!!

Perhaps this is an alternative version of a rich individuals approach, but we don't feel that rich.  Because of the distance to travel we go to WDW about once every couple of years.  Although my wife and I have done a couple of short trips backed onto a cruise (7-day with DCL or a couple of weeks with Celebrity).  Up until now UK guests have had pretty good deals for our longer vacations: 14 day tickets for the price of 7 day, free Memory Maker plus a Disney Gift Card, etc.  The US travel agent we use for DCL opening day bookings has always said she can't match the UK deals!  I guess we may be lucky? It still isn't cheap!!


----------



## Kbrb

Froxfield said:


> Sorry Disney, as an international guest, I will not be paying for any of these new amazing "benefits".  Our next trip is a little over two weeks staying on-site next spring.  Usually we get up for park opening and are on our way back to the hotel by lunchtime.  Getting long multi-day passes we are paying much less for park entry (around $80 per day).  I doubt if we will use the free planner feature either.  We will see how things pan out using our usual strategy of early rising and getting as much done as possible still works for us.  If it doesn't (but I expect it will) then it may be Disney is over for us.  We are lucky that there isn't any "must do" ride for us after quite a lot of vacations.  Basically we pass on any queue of more than 25 minutes.  Star Wars is of little interest (so RoR is ho hum), Marvel of even less interest!!!
> 
> Perhaps this is an alternative version of a rich individuals approach, but we don't feel that rich.  Because of the distance to travel we go to WDW about once every couple of years.  Although my wife and I have done a couple of short trips backed onto a cruise (7-day with DCL or a couple of weeks with Celebrity).  Up until now UK guests have had pretty good deals for our longer vacations: 14 day tickets for the price of 7 day, free Memory Maker plus a Disney Gift Card, etc.  The US travel agent we use for DCL opening day bookings has always said she can't match the UK deals!  I guess we may be lucky? It still isn't cheap!!




Stuck in the same boat, im blindly holding out hope we get free Genie + with our 14 day tickets....but i dont hold alot of hope


----------



## BadPinkTink

As an international solo visitor to Disneyland California I am actually excited and loving this.

I never used Maxpass as there was a free alternative which worked just as well. But now that its all paid, I am fine paying the extra $20 per day.

I am banned by a Presidential Executive Order from entering USA and my last visit was June 2019. I already have park tickets from my cancelled June 2020 trip, so basically on my next visit I will only have to pay an extra $20 per day.

Due to travel and other Covid restrictions in my country, I still have the money I had saved for my cancelled June 2020 visit. My financial situation has actually benefited from Covid, as I have worked all the way through but have had to cancel all travel and my day to day spending has been reduced. Therefore for my next Disneyland trip I am in a far better financial position than on any of my previous trips.

I know that I am a very different type of park visitor than most here on Diss, but I'm sure there are a lot like me, people who due to Covid have huge pent up demand AND are in a better financial position.

I know I am in a very lucky position to be part of the upper section of the "K-shaped economic recovery" I also work in the tech and internet industry where during Covid my job has been to help my clients pivot their business to eCommerce and mobile first, so I am excited to experience all the new tech experiences at Disneyland.

I guess maybe I have a different outlook as being able to keep up with and adapt to the rapidly changing tech and internet industry is part of my job The changes that Disney is making excite me, as I get to experience what a high end company can do when they have the huge resources that Disney have.

I am not resistant to change, I embrace it. To just get to Disneyland cost me over $2000, thats just flights and hotel, so the pay per ride system is not really a big expense to me.

This new change is the natural ebb and flow of the customer lifecycle.

For every family that has been going to Disneyland for the last 20 to 30 years that is priced out, there will be the new family that starts going to Disneyland.

Having been at the front of helping business survive Covid over the last 18 months, the way to survive is get rid of the fuzzy feel good and just concentrate on making money any way how. Yes I know this will anger many here on the Dis but thats the way it is now.

Disney don't care WHO is in the parks as long as people ARE in the parks.

Disney don't care that your family has been going to the parks for the last 20 to 30 years and now feel slighted that things have changed and its not YOUR Disney parks experience any more.

They will move forward and change things and its up to you whether you stay stuck in the past and resist the change and not go to the parks or whether you embrace the change, and enjoy the new Disney Parks experience.

I'm sure if you go back through the years on Dis, you will find the same types of discussions when Maxpass started, when Galaxys Edge was announced, when Carsland was announced, when Disney changed to making restaurant reservations through the website and App, when the dining packages with the exclusive viewing areas for Fantasmic and World of Colour were first announced.

Its all a cycle. People get used to THEIR way of experiencing Disney Parks, Disney as a company move forward with technology and new ideas, people complain and say they are done with Disney, the new changes become normal and accepted, and the cycle starts again, >>>>People get used to THEIR way of experiencing Disney Parks........


----------



## fumanchu2488

My biggest concern is the comparison to MaxPass.  I went to DL for a day just before the pandemic while out there for a conference and bought MaxPass.  IMO a big reason it works is that a lot of the park was AP guests who didn’t seem to be using it.  Families with kids treating DL like the local playground.  In WDW the audience is very different.  Lots of longer stays with people wanting to cram as much in as possible.  I think the demand is going to be so high that it might be pointless.  You buy it and you go to the app to find an attraction at 9:00 and the first available time for Splash Mountain is 4:00 pm.  That would suck.

Lastly, everyone comparing to Universal, I would love to see their reaction if Disney came out and said they were starting a program that was $150/ day or free for Deluxe guests.  Which is essentially what universal has.


----------



## ocdb8r1

As with most things Disney in the last decade, they seem to be damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Pre-COVID people seem to forget that demand at Disney parks from 2015-2019 was simply unstoppable.  Despite numerous ticket price increases and other cost adjustments, there seemed to be no end to the demand for both park attendance and on-site accommodations.  "Slow" seasons virtually disappeared and Disney was blasted for the deteriorating guest experience in the face of increased costs and unbearable crowds during many times of the year.

I'm not sure exactly what Disney fans expect the company to do.  We live in a demand/supply economy.  What levers does Disney have other than creating new product segmentation and adjusting pricing to manage demand?  The reality is that there seem to be plenty of people willing to spend increasing amounts of money on Disney experiences.  Either they increase the costs to manage demand (either by decreasing it or evening it out throughout the year....or both) or they continue to spiral to an untenable guest experience.

I for one, don't think the Genie offering is all that bad.  

For those willing to wait in traditional standby lines, the offering aims to better optimize your experience by looking at those things you want to do and making a suggested plan for the best way to do and see as much as possible (all for free).

For those that want to decrease wait times and are comfortable selecting certain attractions to attend and specify return times, $15/day gets you what was effectively the ORIGINAL Fastpass program (and is virtually identical to the Maxpass program in effect at Disneyland for some time).  There was NO END to the complaints about having to try to manage the crazy hoops necessary to schedule your Fastpasses 60-days ahead of time and the inflexibility.  Now you can choose day-by-day and no need to plan so far in advance.

Finally, for those wanting to splurge on shorter waiting times for certain attractions, there is yet another paid upgrade option with individual Lighting Lane purchases.  For all of these you can opt for just standby (or Boarding Group reservation) for FREE or try to get a time with Genie+.  To me this means there will only be an impact on the MOST in demand days....which to me is precisely what Disney needs to do right now.

Certainly COVID throws a very strange spanner into this whole approach....but I am betting the rapid demand return they saw as COVID restrictions were lifted made clear that if COVID continued to abate, demand would return more ferocious that the 2015-2019 period.  

At the end of the day, I just don't know what people expect Disney to do.  You can bet that if this does excessively decrease demand that they will make adjustments.


----------



## itf

Kbrb said:


> YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! id like to ask who ever came up with this how they intend on selling this to international guests? Most of us book 2 weeks onsite....... 2 weeks of upcharge or 2 weeks of utter hell in lines. Well in Disney well in.
> 
> Im up at 6am crunching numbers, moving offsite will save me £1300 enough to drive in pay for few of these things and still pay for seaworld and Uni. I will miss Disney it gave me and family memories of a life time but enough is enough.



Yep - I'm international and have two weeks booked next year. I'm not being nickel and dimed for 14 days. Will look at my options for refunding my trip.


----------



## Skippyboo

Disneyliscious said:


> You seem to be forgetting that Universals UNLIMITED Express Pass comes FREE to EVERY member in your hotel room if you stay at one of their Premier hotels. Mind you, I just paid $224 per night at one of their Premier Hotels (AP rate - reg rate was around $389 but STILL a deal)  which came with an UNLIMITED Express Pass ($129 per person per day) for up to 5 people in our room for TWO DAYS (check in and check out days). Disney isn't even in the same league as this.


$224 at Disney is a standard room at Coronado Springs. I bought a UO Premier Level AP last summer for half the price of my Platinum WDW AP, I have a week booked in mid September at Portofino Bay on AP rate like $260 per night so still less than Disney moderate hotel price with a discount. Bought a Rush of Fear HHN pass with multiple admission to HHN for about $50 less than a Disney Holiday After Hours. Looking forward to no Park passes or restrictions on park hopping.


----------



## BadPinkTink

ocdb8r1 said:


> As with most things Disney in the last decade, they seem to be damned if they do and damned if they don't.
> 
> Pre-COVID people seem to forget that demand at Disney parks from 2015-2019 was simply unstoppable.  Despite numerous ticket price increases and other cost adjustments, there seemed to be no end to the demand for both park attendance and on-site accommodations.  "Slow" seasons virtually disappeared and Disney was blasted for the deteriorating guest experience in the face of increased costs and unbearable crowds during many times of the year.
> 
> I'm not sure exactly what Disney fans expect the company to do.  We live in a demand/supply economy.  What levers does Disney have other than creating new product segmentation and adjusting pricing to manage demand?  The reality is that there seem to be plenty of people willing to spend increasing amounts of money on Disney experiences.  Either they increase the costs to manage demand (either by decreasing it or evening it out throughout the year....or both) or they continue to spiral to an untenable guest experience.
> 
> I for one, don't think the Genie offering is all that bad.
> 
> For those willing to wait in traditional standby lines, the offering aims to better optimize your experience by looking at those things you want to do and making a suggested plan for the best way to do and see as much as possible (all for free).
> 
> For those that want to decrease wait times and are comfortable selecting certain attractions to attend and specify return times, $15/day gets you what was effectively the ORIGINAL Fastpass program (and is virtually identical to the Maxpass program in effect at Disneyland for some time).  There was NO END to the complaints about having to try to manage the crazy hoops necessary to schedule your Fastpasses 60-days ahead of time and the inflexibility.  Now you can choose day-by-day and no need to plan so far in advance.
> 
> Finally, for those wanting to splurge on shorter waiting times for certain attractions, there is yet another paid upgrade option with individual Lighting Lane purchases.  For all of these you can opt for just standby (or Boarding Group reservation) for FREE or try to get a time with Genie+.  To me this means there will only be an impact on the MOST in demand days....which to me is precisely what Disney needs to do right now.
> 
> Certainly COVID throws a very strange spanner into this whole approach....but I am betting the rapid demand return they saw as COVID restrictions were lifted made clear that if COVID continued to abate, demand would return more ferocious that the 2015-2019 period.
> 
> At the end of the day, I just don't know what people expect Disney to do.  You can bet that if this does excessively decrease demand that they will make adjustments.



The thing is the hardcore fans will never be satisfied, as they want a Disney Parks experience that is THEIR Disney experience.  They don't want things to change and they want everything to be same on every park visit. This is not a viable business model. Business are always changing, updating, introducing new technology. In order for a business to survive there has to be growth and change. A business has to continually be attracting new customers and adapting to the changing customer behavior.


----------



## Froxfield

To be clear, I have no particular love for FastPass+.  All too often we got on the rides we had a pass for by arriving early and ended up cancelling the FastPass for later in the day.  It was quite an inflexible system and required some forward planning.  I think back now to our first trips in 1990 and 1993 when we could wander around picking up rides as we went, and even choose to eat at restaurants without planning months in advance!  Never mind affording two weeks at the Contemporary!! Of course as others have said the demand has got insane and Disney hasn't really been able or willing to put in the number of attractions that would be necessary to soak up the park guest capacity.  RoR is a distinctly flawed ride system in that it hasn't the technical capacity or reliability to handle the particular demand!  The one thing I may miss more than anything next year is the pop-up entertainment around the parks and the live performers: what in another age one called "the packed park compensation plan". In many ways this is what made Disney different.  The shows seem to be inching back but live stuff still seems to be much less in evidence: I hope I'm wrong.


----------



## luv2cheer92

Disneyliscious said:


> You seem to be forgetting that Universals UNLIMITED Express Pass comes FREE to EVERY member in your hotel room if you stay at one of their Premier hotels. Mind you, I just paid $224 per night at one of their Premier Hotels (AP rate - reg rate was around $389 but STILL a deal)  which came with an UNLIMITED Express Pass ($129 per person per day) for up to 5 people in our room for TWO DAYS (check in and check out days). Disney isn't even in the same league as this.


Just an anecdotal experience. But in March of this year I was looking at booking a UO trip for late June or early July. 3 different weeks/weekends I was looking at. Every single premier room was fully booked, so that was not an option. Unlimited express pass for those days was minimum of $325/day per person as much as $359/day per person. There was no option to get it included with a hotel stay, so it was pay that or nothing. We happily went to WDW instead and had a blast.
I absolutely adore both parks, I don't find one better than the other, especially when it comes to cost/value.


----------



## Gordo Gato

Froxfield said:


> RoR is a distinctly flawed ride system in that it hasn't the technical capacity or reliability to handle the particular demand!


This. I will be extremely upset if we pay to ride it and are unable to due to breakdowns.


----------



## Vacation44

After taking off from our annual trips to DW for a few years, we (DH, DD22, DS21 AND myself) went back this past May (was suppose to be May 2020).  Stayed 6 days then switched to Universal staying at the Hard Rock with the wonderful Express Pass for an additional 5 days.  When we got home we all decided DW has changed so much and not really for the better to warrant how incredibly expensive it has gotten.  We will go back in the far future when we have grandchildren and will start saving the ridiculous amount of money it will cost then.  This last announcement, seals our decision.   We will take our money elsewhere as we have been doing for the last few years.  Will always have the memories of our children running ahead to grab the next paper fast pass.


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## Lashed34

I find it quite repulsive that Disney feels that the only way to control the overcrowding is to increase prices - and it's quite offensive too IMO.

If they are serious about crowd control then why have they built more and more hotels on site? All they are interested in is making more and more money.

I appreciate that they have lost a huge amount of money with the pandemic, especially from overseas visitors like myself, but they have options other than prices increasing, costly add ons etc.

Most people want to turn up and have a wonderful and memorable vacation, instead guests on site are encouraged to get up at by 7am, pre plan their vacation months ahead, including where to eat and when, they are also encouraged to spend most of the day looking at their phones, even more so now with the Genie.

Build a 5th gate, add more shows and experiences to spread people out. Yes this will cost money but in the long term it will make WDW more attractive to guests.

Right now, I'm loathed to want to return, which is a massive problem because I love WDW but will not continue to pay more and more for less and less.

If people are coming for a couple of days then $15 isn't a huge amount, but if you have a large family or a 1 or 2 weeks stay this is a huge financial add on and is just not fair - what's the point of having a value resort when you price the customers out from add ons etc. It makes no sense to me.

Disney have no idea of a direction, they are a rudderless boat at the moment, clinging onto anything that will help save them, yet making all the wrong decisions.

Yes it's a business and has share holders to  answer to, but make a customer unhappy and you risk losing that customer for good and that's not something that ANY business should be happy with.

Overall, I feel that this is a hugely damaging announcement and we haven't even got to what cost the tier 1 rides will be.

It's just shameful and shows Disney up for being nothing but greedy - there is no magic left for the customer....none at all.


----------



## itf

katyringo said:


> Ya know.. I am not going to go with the crowd here..
> I’m excited for this. I think that given a chance this could really be something good.
> Yes it’s an up charge and the “I’m tired of paying more for less” crowd are going to struggle..
> 
> but I think this will overall make a more enjoyable expirence in the parks and just like everything else we will learn to navigate and strategize it.



Is it wrong to think that going to a theme park that you're already paying a fortune for shouldn't require months of research and strategizing?


----------



## danissmart

I always find it very funny when people say Disney want "less" people at the parks. That's why they raise prices. Uh, no. They want more people and more money. Pretty straightforward. 

Anyways, this is the least surprising thing ever. Of course they are doing this. The $15 option is not even the big money maker here. The money will be made on the pay to ride option. Feel like riding Space Mountain, but it's a busy day, that'll be $28 per guest, family of four, over $100. For one ride. That's where the money will be really flowing.


----------



## cdurham1

Gordo Gato said:


> Or you had 3 prebooked midday fast passes.


I guess if it was still 2019


----------



## mi*vida*loca

Disney could’ve changed FP+ to this new system with genie without charging $15 pp per day. I think that’s what’s irking people. Honestly if they went to this one FP at a time thing and it was FREE I wouldn’t be annoyed. I would just roll with it. It’s the paying for something I used to get for free and now I’m getting LESS on top of it.


----------



## Froxfield

BadPinkTink said:


> The thing is the hardcore fans will never be satisfied, as they want a Disney Parks experience that is THEIR Disney experience.  They don't want things to change and they want everything to be same on every park visit. This is not a viable business model. Business are always changing, updating, introducing new technology. In order for a business to survive there has to be growth and change. A business has to continually be attracting new customers and adapting to the changing customer behavior.


I don't mind change.  There has been a lot of it since 1990 and most of it fine.  But one does need to look at the nickel and diming of current Disney management and wonder how long they can go on doing this.  As potential Disney guests, my wife and I will soon be far too old trek to the USA or be of direct interest to Disney!  But we may potentially be paying for grandchildren or influencing family views.  I am content that when the change goes beyond what I am willing to pay for, I will voluntarily move on. But I will comment that the constant mania for change in business is not necessarily a good thing.  Customers turn over on a natural cycle related to ageing. Change is usually very capital intensive.  If change outstrips the natural wishes of the customer base, trouble awaits.  Tech wizards often fail to grasp the basics in their pursuit of change!  For example, at the beginning of my career in finance, back in the 1970s we were consistently told by research gurus that cheques and cash were on the way out:  cheques by 1985 if I remember correctly.  Same with bank branches.  Of course, these changes would come but countless millions have been wasted in trying to move the customer base before they were ready.  Indeed, although the decently functional mobile phone of post-2010 has had something to do with it, it has taken a natural disaster (COVID) to deal what looks like the final blow to cash!  Timing of change is everything, I hope Disney has got it right this time around.


----------



## Lashed34

mi*vida*loca said:


> Disney could’ve changed FP+ to this new system with genie without charging $15 pp per day. I think that’s what’s irking people. Honestly if they went to this one FP at a time thing and it was FREE I wouldn’t be annoyed. It’s the paying for something I used to get for free and now I’m getting LESS on top of it.



The add on costs will also help pay for the Genie, which probably cost them millions to develop - so they want guests to pay for a system they didn't want in the first place and then pay for the add ons to it too.


----------



## Vacation44

Lashed34 said:


> Hagrid's is an incredible ride, we absolutely loved it! And Velcoicoaster....one of the worst theme park rides in the last 30 years??? Seriously....no words other than....IT'S INCREDIBLE!!!



Absolutely agree 100%.


----------



## TomorrowlandKD

Imagine if they reintroduced ticket books from the “golden years” and you guys had to choose only one E ticket ride out of a bunch….. oh how the complaints would fly!


----------



## cdurham1

mi*vida*loca said:


> Disney could’ve changed FP+ to this new system with genie without charging $15 pp per day. I think that’s what’s irking people. Honestly if they went to this one FP at a time thing and it was FREE I wouldn’t be annoyed. I would just roll with it. It’s the paying for something I used to get for free and now I’m getting LESS on top of it.


I agree.  They could have made Genie+ included for everyone and just raised ticket prices $15 over the course of a year.  People would have seen Genie+ as something new and cool, and just complained about ticket increases like we normally do.  Instead, now we feel like we are being charged extra for something that a lot of people see as inferior to FP+


----------



## danissmart

TomorrowlandKD said:


> Imagine if they reintroduced ticket books from the “golden years” and you guys had to choose only one E ticket ride out of a bunch….. oh how the complaints would fly!


Would they reduce ticket prices down to those days as well? I doubt there would be many complaints if they did that. The complaints are stemming from the idea that I pay $600 a day for my family of four to get into the parks now. Now they are charging for rides on top of that. Tough scene.


----------



## katyringo

itf said:


> Is it wrong to think that going to a theme park that you're already paying a fortune for shouldn't require months of research and strategizing?



it doesn’t. Make a park reservation and show up. You will wait in lines, won’t dine at certain places.. but you don’t have to do any of the planning before hand. In face what I loved about the the maxpass system was it required zero pre planning for attractions.


----------



## Lashed34

TomorrowlandKD said:


> Imagine if they reintroduced ticket books from the “golden years” and you guys had to choose only one E ticket ride out of a bunch….. oh how the complaints would fly!



Imagine if they still only had those rides and there had been no development and an increase in crowds to a saturation level.

These arguments are pointless because we all live in a world of change....but not all change is good.


----------



## micksn

It sounds stressful! I understand that for people who live locally or visit at short notice booking Fast Passes in advance might have been tricky, but for me ( and I suspect most uk guests) having 3 planned attractions per day already booked made for a much more relaxing holiday. It says you can book and pay! At 7 am each morning - that doesn’t sound like the most relaxing start to a Disney day! This is without taking cost into consideration which for a 14 day trip is ridiculous - I feel grumpy


----------



## KNovacovschi

I’m ok with this as it’s usually just 2 of us so it won’t be that bad cost wise. My DH is even ok with this and he hates when I want to add stuff that costs money. At least there is a perk of staying onsite with it, you will get to book the Lightening Lane ones at 7am whereas if you stay offsite you have to wait until the park opens, at least you get a head start on that. Also I feel this is a more level playing field then before.


----------



## TomorrowlandKD

danissmart said:


> Would they reduce ticket prices down to those days as well? I doubt there would be many complaints if they did that.



Oh man you’re so right.


----------



## Amore Disney

katyringo said:


> it doesn’t. Make a park reservation and show up. You will wait in lines, won’t dine at certain places.. but you don’t have to do any of the planning before hand. In face what I loved about the the maxpass system was it required zero pre planning for attractions.


I too loved this about Maxpass (and DL's previous free FP program) for this exact reason. Zero planning, just walk on in. 

I will note that my boyfriend's first-ever Disney trip was to Disneyland with Maxpass and he personally hated that trip. He was disappointed at how much we were on our phones trying to get fastpasses and not present with each other. Genie+ inevitably will force us to be on our phones all day, and it's simply not what we want during our vacation.


----------



## JenSop

Airb330 said:


> Rope drop AND *7AM *genie+/LL/Virtual queue picks will be important.
> 
> One thing I did like about FP+ was I could *sleep in*, go to the pool, and then go to MK at 3PM and actually get a lot done.


 
This.  This is exactly how we did Disney every time.  Now I have to set my alarm every day at 7am??? Kill me.


----------



## ocdb8r1

Lashed34 said:


> I find it quite repulsive that Disney feels that the only way to control the overcrowding is to increase prices - and it's quite offensive too IMO.





danissmart said:


> I always find it very funny when people say Disney want "less" people at the parks. That's why they raise prices. Uh, no. They want more people and more money. Pretty straightforward.



Disney wants to maximize profit AND guest experience.  I truly believe they realize there is a tipping point where the crowds destroy any customer experience....and I believe their only option (as a for profit corporation) is to control that with price.



Lashed34 said:


> Build a 5th gate, add more shows and experiences to spread people out. Yes this will cost money but in the long term it will make WDW more attractive to guests.



.....yes, I'm sure this would satisfy everyone.  We never have any complaints on this Board (about costs, attractions, desirability) when a new park is built.  Damned if they do and damned if they don't.  Regardless, building new anything (rides, parks, shows and experiences) demands capital.  Disney doesn't simply dividend out every dime they make....they clearly make re-investments into the product.


----------



## JenSop

Queen2PrincessG said:


> It will be interesting to see if they offer it as a perk for deluxe guest. Needless to say this is a plan money grab. Socialism in the park on full display now.


You mean Capitalism on full display in the park?  Maybe not make comments if you don't know what a term means.


----------



## kylenne

mi*vida*loca said:


> Disney could’ve changed FP+ to this new system with genie without charging $15 pp per day. I think that’s what’s irking people. Honestly if they went to this one FP at a time thing and it was FREE I wouldn’t be annoyed. I would just roll with it. It’s the paying for something I used to get for free and now I’m getting LESS on top of it.





cdurham1 said:


> I agree.  They could have made Genie+ included for everyone and just raised ticket prices $15 over the course of a year.  People would have seen Genie+ as something new and cool, and just complained about ticket increases like we normally do.  Instead, now we feel like we are being charged extra for something that a lot of people see as inferior to FP+



I really don’t understand this. The anger certainly, and I would never say folks don’t have the right to be mad about this. But the notion that Disney would have ever offered G+ for free is naive to the point of absurdity to me.

The writing has been on the wall for monetization of FP+ for literal years at this point. Or does no one who never booked a CL stay realize that CL guests have had paid FP options for ages now? One that required a lot more than $15/pp on top of the premium surcharge of CL to begin with and gave a _massive_ advantage to anyone who could pay for it (90 day booking window that totally ignored tiers). We booked 3 days of them for our doomed trip last May and I still have a screenshot of the day we had every Tier 1 ride between AK and Epcot booked. 

Paid skip the line was an inevitability. We can debate the particulars of how it’s being implemented but this was literally always going to happen, with or without Chapek at the helm and with or without Covid. The only thing in question was how it would happen and when. There was smoke about it from insiders long before Covid, even.


----------



## BroadwayHermione5

Random but you can still reserve dining 60 days out with this right? It’s just the fastpasses that are day of


----------



## igrsod

patclairesmom said:


> I'm on the fence.  The _Complimentary _portion is cool, but I don't trust the wait times because they can change so rapidly.  Also with the + version, are you going to be waiting around till the next attraction.  Say we're in Fantasy land and nothing is really available, next best one is an hour away.  What do you do then, scramble on your phone to find an attraction in the meantime.


Also if you are telling people that ride X has low wait times right now... go there (to multiple people's itineraries), wouldn't that now increase that ride X's wait time in the next 30 minutes as everyone heads over there?  I'm trying to wrap my head around this real time itinerary thing.  Historical data used to make such suggestions become useless when now you are artificially encouraging guests to go to those rides.


----------



## luv2cheer92

kylenne said:


> I really don’t understand this. The anger certainly, and I would never say folks don’t have the right to be mad about this. But the notion that Disney would have ever offered G+ for free is naive to the point of absurdity to me.
> 
> The writing has been on the wall for monetization of FP+ for literal years at this point. Or does no one who never booked a CL stay realize that CL guests have had paid FP options for ages now? One that required a lot more than $15/pp on top of the premium surcharge of CL to begin with and gave a _massive_ advantage to anyone who could pay for it (90 day booking window that totally ignored tiers). We booked 3 days of them for our doomed trip last May and I still have a screenshot of the day we had every Tier 1 ride between AK and Epcot booked.
> 
> Paid skip the line was an inevitability. We can debate the particulars of how it’s being implemented but this was literally always going to happen, with or without Chapek at the helm and with or without Covid. The only thing in question was how it would happen and when. There was smoke about it from insiders long before Covid, even.


Agreed. And I think this is why I like what has been presented. We all knew it wasn't going to be free.


----------



## JenSop

BalooFan said:


> I received this email also. My trip begins 10/7. I was concerned that this meant Genie will be up and running by then. However, I also received this email at a different email address my upcoming trip isn’t associated with. So, I’m hoping that this was just a generic email to people who have booked WDW vacations in the past. Did anyone who doesn’t have a trip reserved receive this email?



I didn't get the email in my personal account, and I'm a DVC member who goes regularly.  I only got the travel agent version.  So I don't think all past Disney guests have gotten it.


----------



## Lashed34

luv2cheer92 said:


> Agreed. And I think this is why I like what has been presented. We all knew it wasn't going to be free.



I don't think it's  so much that it's not free, it's that on site guests have nothing extra, they get to book a ride an hour or so before off site guests, but only if they are up at 7am - and no free lightning lane passes.


----------



## quandrea

scrappinginontario said:


> I think they've found the 'sweet spot' for pricing.  Most people will be willing to pay $15/person/day for LL to avoid only using stand-by queues.  It appears it's basically FP+ at $15/day.  Personally, we'll pay it.


I think Disney is seeking childless people rather than families at this point. $15 a day doesn’t sound bad when you are single, but scale that up to a family of five for a week or ten night vacation and it gets crazy. I don’t think they want people like me in the parks anymore; not enough disposable income in the budget to pay for countless souvenirs, extra experiences, or now, this Disney Genie. Our park days will be relegated to maybe one day per our usual 12 night vacation. I’ve reached my balking point.


----------



## Lashed34

They'll be charging on site guests for room deliveries from park shops next!


----------



## Delirium

Disney truly has no idea what 'vacation' is about.  The beauty of Fastpass+ was that it catered to both those that wanted the 'ultimate' experience by letting them grab FP after FP, but at the same time it allowed those that didn't want their noses in the phone all day the ability to schedule 3 FPs in advance and take a more relaxed approach to their day.  No 7 a.m. requirements if you didn't want.  And, it was YOUR choice how you enjoyed your vacation.  Now, Disney has made it THEIR choice.

I'm truly grasping as to how somebody running a business could think this was a good idea.


----------



## igrsod

quandrea said:


> I think Disney is seeking childless people rather than families at this point. $15 a day doesn’t sound bad when you are single, but scale that up to a family of five for a week or ten night vacation and it gets crazy. I don’t think they want people like me in the parks anymore; not enough disposable income in the budget to pay for countless souvenirs, extra experiences, or now, this Disney Genie. Our park days will be relegated to maybe one day per our usual 12 night vacation. I’ve reached my balking point.


As the dude who was giving us the run down said.... you still have the option to have a great time waiting hours in line for all the attractions.... you don't need to spend the $.  LOL
Shaking my head at how these execs think we should be happy with this roll out.


----------



## Sargeant Tibbs

TitusPullo said:


> So I talked with the wife and we will 100% be using the paid lightning lane for ROTR.
> We had a horrible experience at Disneyland where we were lucky enough to get a boarding group and once we made it into the standby line the ride broke down not once but twice ! It was made clear if we left the queue we would not be allowed to return.
> Due to the nature of that particular ride with breakdowns and the time it takes to “reset” I will pay to not only guarantee access but as an added bonus  get to skip the standby line.



But what if you pay the $1000 per person (surge pricing) for a LL for ROTR, get in line at your alotted time, and the ride breaks down? Do you think they'll just let you come back? You paid for a specific LL time slot, not an anytime ride. They will make you wait just the same.


----------



## SansComic

To everyone suggesting that on site folks move to off-site, it just simply isn’t an option for us. We are DVC members, and go to Disney 3/4 times per year. Staying off site would cost way more than our annual dues for our points, for the amount we go. Being able to book FPs 60 days out was a complete game changer because we were pretty much guaranteed to ride on all the new attractions with no wait times. Now we will have to pay or wait three hours in line. This is NOT a value added benefit.


----------



## luv2cheer92

Lashed34 said:


> I don't think it's  so much that it's not free, it's that on site guests have nothing extra, they get to book a ride an hour or so before off site guests, but only if they are up at 7am - and no free lightning lane passes.


That doesn't bother me a bit. Would it be nice? Sure. But it comes far from swaying me from staying onsite. And I'm up at 5:30-6 or so every morning any way, that's sleeping in for me. So 7AM sounds wonderful.

But again, I understand that it's not for everyone. Just sharing my opinion on why I'm a fan.


----------



## ofcabbagesandkings

mi*vida*loca said:


> Disney could’ve changed FP+ to this new system with genie without charging $15 pp per day. I think that’s what’s irking people. Honestly if they went to this one FP at a time thing and it was FREE I wouldn’t be annoyed. I would just roll with it. It’s the paying for something I used to get for free and now I’m getting LESS on top of it.



Honestly, I would have been less annoyed if they just started charging for FP+. At least then I could make 3 reservations before setting foot in a park. What I hate about this system is that if you show up and are only able to pull a late time for Space Mountain, you have to ride standby until your return time. Where is the value in that? If Disney was serious about controlling crowds they would build new rides and stop cutting entertainment. Instead, they are economically incentivized now to make the “vanilla” ticket experience so miserable that everyone will want to pay for Genie+.


----------



## SansComic

Sargeant Tibbs said:


> But what if you pay the $1000 per person (surge pricing) for a LL for ROTR, get in line at your alotted time, and the ride breaks down? Do you think they'll just let you come back? You paid for a specific LL time slot, not an anytime ride. They will make you wait just the same.



Everyone knows that the point is to reserve a time slot so that you have little to no wait time on the ride. If you’re paying for a service (which is the no wait time), and they make you wait due to a broken ride, they would have to refund you. Otherwise you’re literally not getting what you paid for.


----------



## igrsod

Sargeant Tibbs said:


> But what if you pay the $1000 per person (surge pricing) for a LL for ROTR, get in line at your alotted time, and the ride breaks down? Do you think they'll just let you come back? You paid for a specific LL time slot, not an anytime ride. They will make you wait just the same.


This all sounds like a nightmare... and given the ride instability... guaranteed to happen.  I would be so angry (and I never get angry on vacation... go with the flow kinda gal), if I shelled out so much money for that. I would be asking for a refund and an anytime ride of ROTR.


----------



## Amore Disney

Delirium said:


> No 7 a.m. requirements if you didn't want.  And, it was YOUR choice how you enjoyed your vacation.  Now, Disney has made it THEIR choice. I'm truly grasping as to how somebody running a business could think this was a good idea.


It's hopefully clear to anyone with a brain that getting up at 7am isn't exactly the preferred vacationing method. But ROTR boarding passes and the ever-rising ropedrop crowds is empirical proof for Disney that it doesn't matter. 

Disney knows for a fact if there's a way to gain some sort of advantage, there are plenty of people who will wake up at the crack of dawn. For the privilege of forking over their hard earned money.


----------



## Sargeant Tibbs

moorish said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1428165199320780804
> This isn't straight from Disney - so grain of salt- but it sounds like you can either pay to add it to your full length of ticket in advance or you can pay for it day-by-day the day of.



So if this is true, if you're staying on property, to take advantage of the 7am perk you have to buy in advance for length of stay. 



EPCOT-O.G. said:


> I did something today I’ve never done before:
> 
> I was researching rooms and tickets at Universal.



I spent some time late last night researching another Universal trip. We have a room only booked at ASM for the end of January, but if I can find better rates at Universal I'm pulling the plug on Disney next year. We went to Universal for the first time in June and loved it.


----------



## itf

Amore Disney said:


> It's hopefully clear to anyone with a brain that getting up at 7am isn't exactly the preferred vacationing method. But ROTR boarding passes and the ever-rising ropedrop crowds is empirical proof for Disney that it doesn't matter.
> 
> Disney knows for a fact if there's a way to gain some sort of advantage, there are plenty of people who will wake up at the crack of dawn. For the privilege of forking over their hard earned money.



Does this mean on-site guests will get their ROTR passes at 7am too? If so as someone staying off site, I guess I may as well not even bother trying.


----------



## monarchsfan16

I'm curious what the Genie+ and LL capacity limits for rides will be. If they're similar to FP+, so be it. Honestly, I really only used FP+ because it existed, primarily to ride a favorite multiple times. But I've got strategies to get on my favorite rides that work for me. I'm one of those people whose body doesn't understand the concept of sleeping in on vacation so I've always been a rope dropper. No real need for Genie+ for me, in theory.

The irritating part here is the virtual queue/LL being at the same time. I feel like there's no guarantee for either and frankly, LL probably will reduce the virtual queue capacity. How do you choose which you're going for?


----------



## Sargeant Tibbs

SansComic said:


> Everyone knows that the point is to reserve a time slot so that you have little to no wait time on the ride. If you’re paying for a service (which is the no wait time), and they make you wait due to a broken ride, they would have to refund you. Otherwise you’re literally not getting what you paid for.



Sure they might refund, but the point of the post I was quoting was to actually get a ride on Rise without waiting. If they don't wait in a breakdown scenario, they get their money back, but no ride on Rise, which is the coveted and not easily attainable goal of most guests these days. Most people would rather wait for Rise than get their money back I'd wager.


----------



## kylenne

luv2cheer92 said:


> Agreed. And I think this is why I like what has been presented. We all knew it wasn't going to be free.



I’m really waiting to see how things shake out before I make up my mind either way. My ambivalence over it has more to do with the fact that I was an FP+ power user than the fact that it’s pay to play. As an out of state AP who goes at least twice a year and always on site I don’t see the value in this system at all and wouldn’t do it for more than a couple of days, if that. Maybe on those holiday weekend trips I like to do, like the one I had over July 4th this year—I would have gladly ponied up for HS. But for our longer 8+ day trips I really don’t think so. Especially since we stay deluxe and will have access to the evening hours. I still think a smart (human crafted!) touring plan will be effective enough to beat lines just like it always was, but time will tell. That’s why I’m really reserving judgment on G+, I want to see the real world impact it will have.

I do feel for the family set who now have some really tough decisions to make if they want to keep going to the parks though. I really do. Even as one half of a DINK family, I shudder to think of what surge pricing for the pay per ride option will look like in MK on 10/1 if Genie has rolled out by then.


----------



## Amore Disney

itf said:


> Does this mean on-site guests will get their ROTR passes at 7am too? If so as someone staying off site, I guess I may as well not even bother trying.


I'm a little confused by your question. Currently (always subject to change): Anyone on-site or off-site -so long as they have a Hollywood Studios park reservation - can make their first attempt to get an ROTR pass at 7am. Every morning there are countless people doing this as soon as 7am hits. No reason for Disney to believe that people won't get up at 7am in the future.


----------



## Skippyboo

Currently the ROTR boarding groups are gone in under a minute. What percentage of the boarding group is going to be reserved for the Lighting Lane ?  If you are the people that visit WDW once every five years or so, You would definitely will pay $50 per person to ride ROTR instead taking a chance with boarding group lottery.  1000 boarding groups in 1 hr at 50 bucks each for 10 hours is 0.5 million for a day. Take that for 365 days is $182.5 million . For something that is currently free now.


----------



## itf

Amore Disney said:


> I'm a little confused by your question. Currently (always subject to change): Anyone on-site or off-site -so long as they have a Hollywood Studios park reservation - can make their first attempt to get an ROTR pass at 7am. Every morning there are countless people doing this as soon as 7am hits. No reason for Disney to believe that people won't get up at 7am in the future.



But I thought off-site was an hour later - will ROTR still be 7am for everyone or will it now be 8am for off-site guests, IE will on-site get an hour advantage for ROTR as they are for Genie+, or am I misunderstanding.


----------



## meeko987

In the days of paper FastPasses....
(1)  Pull a free paper FastPass for attractions, including the most popular attractions.
(2)  Cannot pull another one until you use the current one or a set amount of time goes by (was it 2 hours?)
(3)  As the day goes on, availability becomes less and less, so when you pull a Soarin' FP at 11:00 a.m., your FP return time might be 7:00 p.m.  Or you might not get a paper FP at all because the attraction is out of them.

Genie Plus seems to be very similar, except...

You have to pay $15 per day per person.  For my family, this will add $240 to our next trip.
It doesn't include the most popular attractions, which may be a very expensive addition indeed.
You might not have the ability (as with paper FP) to pull an additional FP when a certain amount of time goes by.
I'm not sure I can "spin" this to be a positive development to get excited about.

Also - Probably not going to use Genie to help me plan my day.  I agree with others that it will probably be for the benefit of Disney profits and not the guest.  Remember when paper FP machines would give you a Bonus FP for things like "Carousel of Progress"?  It's kinda funny, but Disney was acting like it was giving you something because you're special, when they were probably just manipulating crowd levels in certain areas of the park.


----------



## Amore Disney

itf said:


> But I thought off-site was an hour later - will ROTR still be 7am for everyone or will it now be 8am for off-site guests, IE will on-site get an hour advantage for ROTR as they are for Genie+, or am I misunderstanding.


As of now, they have made no announcements about the ROTR policy changing. Unless they say anything, ROTR opens at 7am for everyone.

Correction: Genie+ will also open at 7am for everyone. Lightning Lanes however, will open at 7am for on-site guests, and at park opening time for everyone else.


----------



## Lashed34

Amore Disney said:


> As of now, they have made no announcements about the ROTR policy changing. Unless they say anything, ROTR opens at 7am for everyone.
> 
> Genie+ and LL however, will open at 7am for on-site guests, and at park opening time for everyone else.



So it's possible - and very likely probable that RotR would sell out of LL just from on site guests at 0701 every morning.

They'll be a lot of angry people and Disney are making a rod for their own backs with this one.


----------



## mi*vida*loca

kylenne said:


> I really don’t understand this. The anger certainly, and I would never say folks don’t have the right to be mad about this. But the notion that Disney would have ever offered G+ for free is naive to the point of absurdity to me.
> 
> The writing has been on the wall for monetization of FP+ for literal years at this point. Or does no one who never booked a CL stay realize that CL guests have had paid FP options for ages now? One that required a lot more than $15/pp on top of the premium surcharge of CL to begin with and gave a _massive_ advantage to anyone who could pay for it (90 day booking window that totally ignored tiers). We booked 3 days of them for our doomed trip last May and I still have a screenshot of the day we had every Tier 1 ride between AK and Epcot booked.
> 
> Paid skip the line was an inevitability. We can debate the particulars of how it’s being implemented but this was literally always going to happen, with or without Chapek at the helm and with or without Covid. The only thing in question was how it would happen and when. There was smoke about it from insiders long before Covid, even.



Oh I knew it was coming but I don’t have to like it. Lol.

I have a trip booked for next year. I am going to keep an open mind and read trip reports here and see how it goes before making a final decision on that trip. I’m really not crazy about the one FP at a time but I’m willing to see how it plays out.


----------



## Sargeant Tibbs

Skippyboo said:


> Currently the ROTR boarding groups are gone in under a minute. What percentage of the boarding group is going to be reserved for the Lighting Lane ?  If you are the people that visit WDW once every five years or so, You would definitely will pay $50 per person to ride ROTR instead taking a chance with boarding group lottery.  1000 boarding groups in 1 hr at 50 bucks each for 10 hours is 0.5 million for a day. Take that for 365 days is $182.5 million . For something that is currently free now.



I agree with you, but the boarding groups are gone in something like 3 seconds. With LL, we all might have one second now to get a free boarding group. I'm not exaggerating here, either. 

I am very curious what the LL pricing will be for ROTR. Earlier I said $1000, which absolutely was sarcasm, but $50-$75 doesn't seem too far of a guess.


----------



## kylenne

Skippyboo said:


> Currently the ROTR boarding groups are gone in under a minute. What percentage of the boarding group is going to be reserved for the Lighting Lane ?  If you are the people that visit WDW once every five years or so, You would definitely will pay $50 per person to ride ROTR instead taking a chance with boarding group lottery.  1000 boarding groups in 1 hr at 50 bucks each for 10 hours is 0.5 million. For something that is currently free now.



Not for nothing but there is absolutely a market for paid ROTR. I’ve seen numerous people on the SW:GE board here complaining about the BG process saying they wish they could just pay to get on it. And I’ve heard (admittedly unsubstantiated) talk elsewhere of folks paying people to get BGs for them. There’s a lot of people struggling under the current system who have been begging to throw money at it to make it go away. 

I don’t think paid slots will impact it all that much though tbh. The way it is now those go so fast I don’t think it’ll make much difference. If anything it might make 7am slightly easier because now people will have to choose between booking their G+ selections and landing a BG the old fashioned way and many people will assuredly choose poorly. Maybe they end up calling far fewer of the 1pm backup groups though.


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

They couldn’t have made this more complicated or confusing if they tried.  I hope this starts soon so I have time to figure it all out and see it in practice before deciding if it’s worth it (especially as an offsite guest this time).


----------



## Froxfield

Amore Disney said:


> It's hopefully clear to anyone with a brain that getting up at 7am isn't exactly the preferred vacationing method. But ROTR boarding passes and the ever-rising ropedrop crowds is empirical proof for Disney that it doesn't matter.
> 
> Disney knows for a fact if there's a way to gain some sort of advantage, there are plenty of people who will wake up at the crack of dawn. For the privilege of forking over their hard earned money.


One of the advantages of visiting from the UK is that one wakes up very early because of the time difference!!!


----------



## EPCOT-O.G.

It seems like the beta version of Genie+ operating in all of our heads has an optimization plan that just sends us to Universal instead


----------



## kylenne

mi*vida*loca said:


> Oh I knew it was coming but I don’t have to like it. Lol.
> 
> I have a trip booked for next year. I am going to keep an open mind and read trip reports here and see how it goes before making a final decision on that trip. I’m really not crazy about the one FP at a time but I’m willing to see how it plays out.



The one at a time and not being able to prebook are my sticking points. If I think of it like refreshing it’s not so bad but I really have to see how it ends up working in practice. On paper it’s a severe downgrade for anyone who really knew how to work the previous system. But I’m definitely at the wait and see…I don’t like the idea of being the guinea pigs for it though, over the 50th.


----------



## Lashed34

EPCOT-O.G. said:


> It seems like the beta version of Genie+ operating in all of our heads has an optimization plan that just sends us to Universal instead


You can bet the bosses at Universal are rubbing their hands gleefully right now. And when Epic Universe opens Disney will really feel the punch in their gut if Genie+ is a disaster.


----------



## EPCOT-O.G.

ENJDisneyFan said:


> They couldn’t have made this more complicated or confusing if they tried.  I hope this starts soon so I have time to figure it all out and see it in practice before deciding if it’s worth it (especially as an offsite guest this time).


I think the complexity is by design to get you to throw money at it. The sunk cost notion (we already dropped $5k to be here this week - what’s another few hundred here or there to ride this ride we came to do?)

That said, I have no confidence in its effectiveness and reliability, and hope it destroys guest satisfaction, good will, and bookings, and that every greedy exec who has their fingerprints on this catastrophe will be run out of town.


----------



## EPCOT-O.G.

Lashed34 said:


> You can bet the bosses at Universal are rubbing their hands gleefully right now. And when Epic Universe opens Disney will really feel the punch in their gut if Genie+ is a disaster.


It’s telling that Disney scuttled anything in the pipeline that wasn’t already at a critical mass (Guardians, TRON). They haven’t announced, let along broken ground on anything since. It takes them, what, 4-6 years to build an E-ticket? Epic Universe arrives in roughly 2023/24/25? It seems WDW has nothing in development to compete.


----------



## kylenne

EPCOT-O.G. said:


> It seems like the beta version of Genie+ operating in all of our heads has an optimization plan that just sends us to Universal instead



Speak for yourself, please. Even _if_ this made me mad enough to stop going to Disney parks, as long as every cut of a Universal ticket sold ends up in the pockets of a virulent bigot who uses her vast wealth and celebrity platform to actively lobby for the dehumanization of a marginalized community I happen to be a member of, I will never darken those gates. I would just choose other vacation destinations besides theme parks, like we already do from time to time.


----------



## JenSop

cdurham1 said:


> If you were sleeping in, won't affect you.  You were standing in line all day anyway.  #ropedrop


 
Actually, that's not true.  I haven't done rope drop in ten years.  I booked my FPs for the afternoons.  We would sleep in, go to lunch, then use our three afternoon FPs.   Now I have to get up early to even attempt to get a good ride.


----------



## Lashed34

EPCOT-O.G. said:


> It’s telling that Disney scuttled anything in the pipeline that wasn’t already at a critical mass (Guardians, TRON). They haven’t announced, let along broken ground on anything since. It takes them, what, 4-6 years to build an E-ticket? Epic Universe arrives in roughly 2023/24/25? It seems WDW has nothing in development to compete.


I agree, we were at Universal Dec 2019 and there was only mud where Velocicoaster is now standing proud and thrilling guests. Universal really do just get on with it.

Meanwhile Cosmic Rewind and Tron have become a bore to everyone, the excitement has just fluttered away, and by the time they do open people will be hugely excited by what Universal has planned. Disney are on a losing streak here I fear.


----------



## Pats Dragon

Need to hire a cpa to go with you to Disney now.  This should be a relaxing vacation.


----------



## mi*vida*loca

Lashed34 said:


> So it's possible - and very likely probable that RotR would sell out of LL just from on site guests at 0701 every morning.
> 
> They'll be a lot of angry people and Disney are making a rod for their own backs with this one.



That’a no different than the boarding groups. They sell out in seconds.


----------



## SkyGuy

kylenne said:


> Not for nothing but there is absolutely a market for paid ROTR. I’ve seen numerous people on the SW:GE board here complaining about the BG process saying they wish they could just pay to get on it. And I’ve heard (admittedly unsubstantiated) talk elsewhere of folks paying people to get BGs for them. There’s a lot of people struggling under the current system who have been begging to throw money at it to make it go away.
> 
> I don’t think paid slots will impact it all that much though tbh. The way it is now those go so fast I don’t think it’ll make much difference. If anything it might make 7am slightly easier because now people will have to choose between booking their G+ selections and landing a BG the old fashioned way and many people will assuredly choose poorly. Maybe they end up calling far fewer of the 1pm backup groups though.


And the demand for VIP Tours shot through the roof when it was announced Rise would be included.


----------



## 720L

mousefan73 said:


> News like this make me grateful for those golden years we had as a family pre Covid. Remember free resort parking, MDE, free fast passes, if lucky FD. Now pay pay pay AND while keeping every second of My well earned vacation time more glued to my frickin phone ( genie ). WDW was already a part time job planning pre trip - now it’s a full time job on your phone while in the park. I just wanted to walk in and enjoy a park with out planning everything, every second.


Same! I'm glad we experienced the real Disney magic when our kids were little. The original Fastpass system, ordering at the counter for CS (I hate mobile ordering), fun free things like Sorcerer's of MK, Year of a Million Dreams ( my favorite), The Great Movie Ride, Backlot Tour, I miss the old Disney.


----------



## Lashed34

mi*vida*loca said:


> That’a no different than the boarding groups. They sell out in seconds.


Indeed, but there are plenty of people willing to pay for RotR that simply won't have the opportunity to....it's all very messy and other new rides are going to follow with virual queues and BG - not a great thought for many people.


----------



## wgeo

I don't like this idea at all - but trying to honestly think through the logistics.

Lets say you buy genie+ and you buy the 2 special pay per ride lightning lane things and you're at HS.

When 7:00:00 hits - what do you book first, what do you wait until 7:01 to book and what a mess will it be trying to book multiple different rides at the exact same time?

And also Disney said they are limiting the number of Pay per ride tickets sold.  So who gets first dibs on buying them?  When will people be able to pay for the ROTR lightning lane?  Or does that happen at 7:00 and you can either try to be lucky to pay extra for a pass or you can try to get into the virtual que but you can't do both because it happens at the same time?

Sounds like a miserable morning on whats supposed to be a fun vacation.


----------



## mousefan73

Question: I haven’t been on RoTR So no spoilers please. But here in the thread there’s been much speculation  how much the lightning Lane for this would be. So for those That have been on it is it worth $10 more, 20, 30 and on?  How much would you be willing to spend to ride it


----------



## Lashed34

mousefan73 said:


> Question: I haven’t been on RoTR So no spoilers please. But here in the thread there’s been much speculation  how much the lightning Lane for this would be. So for those I have been on it is it worth $10 more, 20, 30 and on?  How much would you be willing to spend to ride it


$50 max for me just to get on early and enjoy the rest of the day. But it is an incredible experience and well worth doing. It's the only experience I would pay for though, simply because it's so amazing.


----------



## mousefan73

wgeo said:


> I don't like this idea at all - but trying to honestly think through the logistics.
> 
> Lets say you buy genie+ and you buy the 2 special pay per ride lightning lane things and you're at HS.
> 
> When 7:00:00 hits - what do you book first, what do you wait until 7:01 to book and what a mess will it be trying to book multiple different rides at the exact same time?
> 
> And also Disney said they are limiting the number of Pay per ride tickets sold.  So who gets first dibs on buying them?  When will people be able to pay for the ROTR lightning lane?  Or does that happen at 7:00 and you can either try to be lucky to pay extra for a pass or you can try to get into the virtual que but you can't do both because it happens at the same time?
> 
> Sounds like a miserable morning on whats supposed to be a fun vacation.


A miserable morning for mom  while everyone else is still sleeping. At least this is how it works in this family. I’m the one that spends  months out planning and then I get the bad end of the stick While on vacation not being able to relax but instead being our family’s  concierge service.


----------



## monarchsfan16

wgeo said:


> I don't like this idea at all - but trying to honestly think through the logistics.
> 
> Lets say you buy genie+ and you buy the 2 special pay per ride lightning lane things and you're at HS.
> 
> When 7:00:00 hits - what do you book first, what do you wait until 7:01 to book and what a mess will it be trying to book multiple different rides at the exact same time?
> 
> And also Disney said they are limiting the number of Pay per ride tickets sold.  So who gets first dibs on buying them?  When will people be able to pay for the ROTR lightning lane?  Or does that happen at 7:00 and you can either try to be lucky to pay extra for a pass or you can try to get into the virtual que but you can't do both because it happens at the same time?
> 
> Sounds like a miserable morning on whats supposed to be a fun vacation.


This is my biggest concern too. Having everything open at exactly the same time is cause for a real mess.


----------



## mousefan73

Lashed34 said:


> $50 max for me just to get on early and enjoy the rest of the day. But it is an incredible experience and well worth doing.


Interesting, wow. I hope to be on it next week to see for myself


----------



## ChipNdale8887

Sargeant Tibbs said:


> I agree with you, but the boarding groups are gone in something like 3 seconds. With LL, we all might have one second now to get a free boarding group. I'm not exaggerating here, either.
> 
> I am very curious what the LL pricing will be for ROTR. Earlier I said $1000, which absolutely was sarcasm, but $50-$75 doesn't seem too far of a guess.


And you know the boarding groups will probably be 30% of what they are now and the other 70% capacity will be locked behind LL's extra tier 1 cost.


----------



## kylenne

SkyGuy said:


> And the demand for VIP Tours shot through the roof when it was announced Rise would be included.



I remember when VIP tours were exclusively the province of crazy rich people, the way people talk so casually about them nowadays is wild to me.

But I guess that’s why I never really bought the arguments that WDW is some socialist utopia that’s being ruined by the Bobs. Disney has always been pay to play, it’s just way more blatant now and I suppose the difference is the barrier for decent entry level trips on site has gotten higher. There’s always been ways to throw money at trips to make them better and there’s always been somebody spending more to do more and have a fancier trip than me so I never especially stressed about Theme Park Equity lol


----------



## Lashed34

People on phones at 7am - CHAOS.
Rope drop every day - CHAOS.
Getting a restaurant reservation - CHAOS.

WDW - CHAOS for everyone, of all ages and god forbid the Genie doesn't crash or they lose internet coverage,


----------



## mi*vida*loca

Is Disney trying to “help” everyone get at least one ride on the headliners? Was this a big complaint from guests? That they couldn’t get a FP and standby was 3 hours for certain rides. With LL you have to pay for the FP which may reduce standby wait time. Instead of a 3 hour wait for FOP it may be an 1.5 hours and those folks who couldn’t ride before may wait in that line instead.

Disney has to think this will improve guest experience for a large portion of guests. They wouldn’t roll something out knowing it don’t work and that it’ll crash and burn.


----------



## FCDub

So much time and emotional energy spent concocting hypothetical situations instead of simply waiting to see how it all unfolds once the thing actually launches. Never change y’all.


----------



## Lashed34

Would be a bit of a boring forum if we all waited and not speculated.


----------



## ucf_knight

I don’t see how the free version of the genie will be beneficial if everyone has access to it and thousands are touring the parks in essentially the same way.  Maybe at MK this will be somewhat helpful as there are a lot of attractions but at parks like HS where there are only a handful I just don’t see how this will be a benefit. Pay to play will be the new norm. Really gonna miss fast pass as I had it down to a science


----------



## Lop460

I’ve already scaled back our July 2022 vacation. Originally was supposed to be staying at Polynesian, but due to all the cutbacks and pending up-charges we decided to rent a time share and save a ton of money to get a nicer, way bigger place. We were still going to get 6 days of park tickets but now we’ve just decided to skip Disney altogether and give Universal a try instead. I already feel so much weight off my shoulders it’s unbelievable. I don’t feel like I’m going to be up-charged at every turn and I don’t have to plan it out or spend the day on my phone trying to maximize the return on the money I just dumped into Disney. I can just enjoy myself on my vacation……what a novel concept. Disney has really found my breaking point. Never thought they would, but they did.


----------



## mikerobrewer

I really wish they would have stated the start date of Genie+/LL in the announcement rather than "starting this fall".


----------



## Jadyreen1282

Lashed34 said:


> Would be a bit of a boring forum if we all waited and not speculated.



What else we gonna do. Covid has destroyed the world and we are just too "Disney" to see it. Anyway, it's just more fun to read the panic than experience it when it starts for Genie+.


----------



## BadPinkTink

ucf_knight said:


> I don’t see how the free version of the genie will be beneficial if everyone has access to it and thousands are touring the parks in essentially the same way.  Maybe at MK this will be somewhat helpful as there are a lot of attractions but at parks like HS where there are only a handful I just don’t see how this will be a benefit. Pay to play will be the new norm. Really gonna miss fast pass as I had it down to a science



they will probably have some sort of machine learning tech. It will "learn" your behavior and suggest a touring plan based on your interests and what rides and attractions you do. For example, I don't watch parades or do character meet and greets, so in my touring plan, those suggestions wont appear.


----------



## Delirium

Even for early risers like you, it gives you an advantage on ONE ride.  You can only get one at a time.  You can't use that one until you are actually in the park.  Once you are in the park, you are in the same boat as everyone else.  FastPass+ not only gave you an advantage on THREE rides, it allowed you to better plan your day because you knew where you needed to be in advance.

Based on what I just explained, help me understand why this is a good thing for onsite guests.


----------



## Skippyboo

ucf_knight said:


> I don’t see how the free version of the genie will be beneficial if everyone has access to it and thousands are touring the parks in essentially the same way.  Maybe at MK this will be somewhat helpful as there are a lot of attractions but at parks like HS where there are only a handful I just don’t see how this will be a benefit. Pay to play will be the new norm. Really gonna miss fast pass as I had it down to a science


It’s probably going to be just an annoying pop up. You are in SWGE , genie will pop up on your phone with try some blue milk with a button to mobile order or you’re  in MK it pops up saying Little Mermaid ride is only 10 minutes wait when you are in adventure land hoping you go to mermaid instead of Jungle Cruise.


----------



## MCC Retired

Just when you think Disney can't get  more $$$ greedy , they come up with this Genie and no more free Fast Pass.


----------



## Lashed34

MCC Retired said:


> Just when you think Disney can't get  more $$$ greedy , they come up with this Genie and no more free Fast Pass.


Should have named it Greedy+


----------



## TwoMisfits

brightlined said:


> I wish people wouldn't say this every time Disney does something they don't like. (And you're allowed to not like this.)
> 
> 
> Universal's Express Pass is a much more expensive version of what people are mostly complaining about here.
> 
> It's not like Universal's immune from this kind of behavior. For example, if you buy a Universal AP, you still have to pay for parking on the first visit (unless you go after 6pm).
> 
> (And I'll gently nudge that the two most recent ride additions at USP are two of the worst theme park rides of the last thirty years.)



Hagrid's and Velocicoaster are 2 of the best ever done...yeah, USP puts in new stuff really often...


----------



## tink fan

I just rewatched the video because I was confused about the on site perk. From what I understand
—both on and off site guests who purchases Genie+ can make their first selection at 7 am
—the individual paid lightning lane selections do not require genie+
—on site guests can purchase the two paid individual lightning lane selections at 7 am. Offsite guests need to wait until park opening.
—beginning this fall on-site guests will be able to enter the parks 1/2 hour before off site, giving them the rope drop advantage

As an aside I would absolutely pay for the individual ROTC selection at 7 am even before trying to get a boarding pass.


----------



## yorkieteacher

It now makes sense why early entry is only 30 minutes for on-site guests. That way you can only get in one good ride before you have to pay up!


----------



## PFopma

mikerobrewer said:


> I really wish they would have stated the start date of Genie+/LL in the announcement rather than "starting this fall".



Yup - Already made my stressful 50th Anniversary week trip more stressful wondering when this will drop. We already have plans made and a rough itinerary. Hopefully Disney will have the sense to not start this until well into the Fall.


----------



## danissmart

FCDub said:


> So much time and emotional energy spent concocting hypothetical situations instead of simply waiting to see how it all unfolds once the thing actually launches. Never change y’all.


I know how it will work. People will have to pay to ride headliners. Simple.


----------



## JM_97

Seems like a cash grab to me. Pay for your park ticket, and then to even get access to a service that has been free, it's $15. And then for the best ones, you pay more money. And of course you're already paying for food, drink, etc.

If they knew people wouldn't pay for this, they wouldn't do it. But it makes budgeting for a trip that much harder


----------



## Lashed34

Hey people Space 220 restaurant was due to open in fall 2019...opens next month....maybe Genie+ will follow the same Disney timeline


----------



## Ursula J

So far, they're letting a lot of negative comments stay up in the Parks Blog. I'm not saying we should all head over there and ratio them but... let's all head over there and ratio them


----------



## Alexis56578

I'm still kinda hoping this is only the first iteration of this and they'll at least make the non- individual passes free for resort guests.


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

Ursula J said:


> So far, they're letting a lot of negative comments stay up in the Parks Blog. I'm not saying we should all head over there and ratio them but... let's all head over there and ratio them


They’re getting absolutely blasted on Twitter too!


----------



## mi*vida*loca

ENJDisneyFan said:


> They’re getting absolutely blasted on Twitter too!



Maybe this will be the noodles part 2


----------



## disneyworldsk

TwoMisfits said:


> I will say my spouse now says, after this change, he never wants to go back.  We almost went on our May 2021 trip (we have 1 day nonexpiring tickets), but the entertainment was closed, so we didn't want to "give more for less" (since the payment was done with old Disney reward credit)...now, I'm gonna have to think if I'm gonna save these tickets til cheap-o Chapek is gone...


honestly i can see this issue as being a serious marital issue. one partner wants to do it, one doesn't , argument over disney ensues. one quits disney, one wants to hang on. argument ensues. plus the argument over who is waking up at 7 a.m. if you're interested in participating as a resort guest in this program. are we taking turns? are we getting up together? too many conversations and decisions, it shouldn't be so difficult to enjoy your vacation. people work hard, they want to have fun, not argue with their spouse. what a shame.


----------



## thedarksyde

Based on you only being able to buy 2 headliners per day I see this as a positive, if there are more than 2 headliners in a park it will make it to where there are less fastpasses in line in front of you than before.  Now parks have to have 3 headliners or more for this to happen.  If it does though then overall those lines will be shorter for standby people than they have been since fastpasses became a thing.


----------



## Seeker615

Ugh - This does not sound like a magical vacation anymore.  I know planning is involved but this is crazy! Who wants to be glues to their phone all day? I miss the good old days!


----------



## Turksmom

mousefan73 said:


> A miserable morning for mom  while everyone else is still sleeping. At least this is how it works in this family. I’m the one that spends  months out planning and then I get the bad end of the stick While on vacation not being able to relax but instead being our family’s  concierge service.


And don't forget the added misery of failing to get the ride one kid requested because you scheduled the other kid's ride first☹


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

thedarksyde said:


> Based on you only being able to buy 2 headliners per day I see this as a positive, if there are more than 2 headliners in a park it will make it to where there are less fastpasses in line in front of you than before.  Now parks have to have 3 headliners or more for this to happen.  If it does though then overall those lines will be shorter for standby people than they have been since fastpasses became a thing.


The “3 headliners per park” really only works at MK though.  The other parks don’t really have enough rides to make the Genie+ level worthwhile if you take out 3 rides.


----------



## TwoMisfits

Since Disney is starting to re-adopt the "pay per ride" strategy now, when do they start reducing daily ticket prices on their way to allowing free entry to the parks? I know folks mentioned this feels like carnivals, but there, I never have to pay to get in - I just pay when I feel like riding (or really, when my kids do)...


----------



## brightlined

Lashed34 said:


> Hagrid's is an incredible ride, we absolutely loved it! And Velcoicoaster....one of the worst theme park rides in the last 30 years??? Seriously....no words other than....IT'S INCREDIBLE!!!


People: USP is Universal Studios Park. The one park. UO is the entire resort.

The two most recent rides at USP are Fallon and Fast & Furious, which is what I was calling two of the worst theme park rides in the last thirty years. I wasn't talking about Hagrid's or Velocicoaster, which are both amazing (when Hagrid's is actually working).

I was specifically talking about the fact that one of UO's two main parks has been widely neglected for fifteen-plus years (not unlike how Epcot was neglected for decades).


----------



## 4Ds4Diz

mi*vida*loca said:


> Is Disney trying to “help” everyone get at least one ride on the headliners? Was this a big complaint from guests? That they couldn’t get a FP and standby was 3 hours for certain rides. With LL you have to pay for the FP which may reduce standby wait time. Instead of a 3 hour wait for FOP it may be an 1.5 hours and those folks who couldn’t ride before may wait in that line instead.
> 
> Disney has to think this will improve guest experience for a large portion of guests. They wouldn’t roll something out knowing it don’t work and that it’ll crash and burn.


Not so sure about that anymore regarding crash and burn....think NBA Experience at Disney Springs.


----------



## kylenne

disneyworldsk said:


> honestly i can see this issue as being a serious marital issue. one partner wants to do it, one doesn't , argument over disney ensues. one quits disney, one wants to hang on. argument ensues. plus the argument over who is waking up at 7 a.m. if you're interested in participating as a resort guest in this program. are we taking turns? are we getting up together? too many conversations and decisions, it shouldn't be so difficult to enjoy your vacation. people work hard, they want to have fun, not argue with their spouse. what a shame.



Idk, I wonder if those situations will be balanced out by how many couples are like us, where one person is the crazy type A planner type and the other one is cool with whatever, the “just tell me when to show up” type. My gf is so laid back I could tell her we gotta get up 4am and do the ice bucket challenge to get into a park and she’d be fine as long as she got her dole whip on time


----------



## TwoMisfits

brightlined said:


> People: USP is Universal Studios Park. The one park. UO is the entire resort.
> 
> The two most recent rides at USP are Fallon and Fast & Furious, which is what I was calling two of the worst theme park rides in the last thirty years. I wasn't talking about Hagrid's or Velocicoaster, which are both amazing (when Hagrid's is actually working).
> 
> I was specifically talking about the fact that one of UO's two main parks has been widely neglected for fifteen-plus years (not unlike how Epcot was neglected for decades).



But Bourne is the most recent attraction at the Studios...and that's amazing...so your post still didn't make any sense...and yeah, I get it...keeping up with Universal and all its openings is getting hard b/c they just like to keep things fresh...

(And while I agree on F&F, Fallon is really fun and the best attraction pre-experience done with the history and set up, so again, not feeling the post...


----------



## tguz

Sorry just waking up to this today and have not read all 33 pages of comments......we are going to Disney for 10 nights in December.  Can I buy the $15 option for select days or do I need to buy it for all 10 days?


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

kylenne said:


> My gf is so laid back I could tell her we gotta get up 4am and do the ice bucket challenge to get into a park and she’d be fine as long as she got her dole whip on time


You better marry her ASAP lol


----------



## brightlined

TwoMisfits said:


> But Bourne is the most recent attraction at the Studios...and that's amazing...so your post still didn't make any sense...and yeah, I get it...keeping up with Universal and all its openings is getting hard b/c they just like to keep things fresh...


Bourne is a show, not a ride.


----------



## Princess Disney Mom

mousefan73 said:


> A miserable morning for mom  while everyone else is still sleeping. At least this is how it works in this family. I’m the one that spends  months out planning and then I get the bad end of the stick While on vacation not being able to relax but instead being our family’s  concierge service.


That's how it goes for the moms.  I feel your pain.


----------



## TwoMisfits

brightlined said:


> Bourne is a show, not a ride.



Studios, by its nature, focuses more on the "attractions" than the rides...since it still has some of the "movie magic" aspect to that park...that's why it has so many more shows than Islands...and Islands is so "moving ride" focused...


----------



## kylenne

ENJDisneyFan said:


> You better marry her ASAP lol



This will be our last big trip anywhere, for a while…have to save money for Luau Pointe.


----------



## tguz

My early thought is that we will probably do the $15 per day option as there are a lot of what I think will be tier 2 rides that we like and either do tier 1 rides at rope drop or jump in line just before park closing so we get to ride it.


----------



## TropicalDIS

Amore Disney said:


> As of now, they have made no announcements about the ROTR policy changing. Unless they say anything, ROTR opens at 7am for everyone.
> 
> Genie+ and LL however, will open at 7am for on-site guests, and at park opening time for everyone else.



Not quite. Genie+ will open at 7am for everyone.
LL will open at 7am for on-site guests only.


----------



## disneyworldsk

kylenne said:


> Idk, I wonder if those situations will be balanced out by how many couples are like us, where one person is the crazy type A planner type and the other one is cool with whatever, the “just tell me when to show up” type. My gf is so laid back I could tell her we gotta get up 4am and do the ice bucket challenge to get into a park and she’d be fine as long as she got her dole whip on time


Lucky. you have a winner there! my Dh's response is: well it's a business isn't it, you pay for perks like anywhere else. he gets it. 
what i don't get are the other issues that are coming with it , he's just looking at the big picture. not the specifics.


----------



## jimmymc

elgerber said:


> Me neither.  do we have a list of the Tiers yet?



Not full lists. The announcement mentioned Rise of the Resistance, Remi, and 7 Dwarfs as paid extras, while Big Thunder and Smuggler's run as included. So I would imagine only 1 or 2 rides per park are extra.


----------



## Sjm9911

Marissa227 said:


> I haven't read through all 24 pages so I'm sure someone has already mentioned this but.... the thought of being up at 7am every day of my vacation stressing out while the rest of my family sleeps does not sound exciting at all.


Look on the brite site everyone will be in bed early so there will be less noise at night  
Im with you though.  Not fun, not easy to plan, and more like work then a vacation. Before i could plan everything at home and relax when i got there knowing i had a well thought out plan. Now, i have nothing, no peice of mind on what rides i can get or where i will even be at certian times. This will effect dining and everyrhing else. So , im not for it in its current configuration.


----------



## ABE4DISNEY

Just waking up to this....

This genie needed to stay in its bottle.


----------



## TropicalDIS

Think it was on the Touring Plans live stream from yesterday afternoon, but was mentioned that Space Mountain is shown as being the other LL ride for MK.

No doubt it will be Frozen and Remy for Epcot. 
SDD, ROR, for HS. Could also see MMRR & SR being added to that list.

It will be interesting to see what kind of prices they are charging for LL. If they are truly ridiculous, that will really dampen the experience, and just give lead to increased dissatisfaction amongst parkgoers.

Also not a fan of doing everything day of at 7am. Disney's IT is not known for being the best (or even just decent), so I could see people having issues. Would seem much easier for everyone to book their first Genie+ pass a week out, and then the next one once you are in the park.


----------



## Lashed34

brightlined said:


> People: USP is Universal Studios Park. The one park. UO is the entire resort.
> 
> The two most recent rides at USP are Fallon and Fast & Furious, which is what I was calling two of the worst theme park rides in the last thirty years. I wasn't talking about Hagrid's or Velocicoaster, which are both amazing (when Hagrid's is actually working).
> 
> I was specifically talking about the fact that one of UO's two main parks has been widely neglected for fifteen-plus years (not unlike how Epcot was neglected for decades).


F&F I agree with, just a complete waste of space, but Jimmy Fallon we absolutely loved - great fun, rode it lots when we were there.


----------



## BroadwayHermione5

SansComic said:


> To everyone suggesting that on site folks move to off-site, it just simply isn’t an option for us. We are DVC members, and go to Disney 3/4 times per year. Staying off site would cost way more than our annual dues for our points, for the amount we go. Being able to book FPs 60 days out was a complete game changer because we were pretty much guaranteed to ride on all the new attractions with no wait times. Now we will have to pay or wait three hours in line. This is NOT a value added benefit.


We are not DVC and we have to agree-adding a rental car even with discounts and saving coins for gas money and to pay for parking is not worth it. We might be going 3-4 years instead of every 2-3 but thats the unfortunate reality. Also we have been discussing it: lets say we do a land and sea trip-we would absolutely use genie + the land portion of the trip as we arent there enough. Usually when we come, its about 6 days disney, one day UOR and one day of nothing. We would probably only do genie plus for 4 of those 6 days if thats an option.

I also keep telling myself that this could all change in the future all over again and to brace for it to. I like the concept but there are some things that did not need to happen (im sorry but WDW ROR should not have lightning pass with galactic starcruiser).


----------



## kylenne

disneyworldsk said:


> Lucky. you have a winner there! my Dh's response is: well it's a business isn't it, you pay for perks like anywhere else. he gets it.
> what i don't get are the other issues that are coming with it , he's just looking at the big picture. not the specifics.



Logistics are definitely a concern for sure. I really feel for the people who don’t want to get up at 7 on vacation, but this really won’t change much for us. As much as we’re night owls in normal life, we are rope droppers at Disney even though we do stay in the parks late and prefer them at night. We just do a lot of napping and relaxing at the resort in the middle of the day so we’re not exhausted.

Idk why that is, as soon as I’m on property I guess I’m so amped on adrenaline that it’s impossible for me to sleep in any later than like 8am. She’s the same way. Even on resort days we tend to be up early and will go for walks around the grounds.


----------



## EddieMI

What I do not see in any of the announcements is if they are limiting the sales of Genie+.  Universal limits the sale of Express Passes so that there are not so many of them that they can insure shorter lines for Express Pass.  If everybody at the park on a day has paid for Genie+, do you really think everyone will be able to get the rides they want that day that works with their schedules? They better have a real Genie somewhere to make this work.


----------



## BroadwayHermione5

TropicalDIS said:


> Think it was on the Touring Plans live stream from yesterday afternoon, but was mentioned that Space Mountain is shown as being the other LL ride for MK.
> 
> No doubt it will be Frozen and Remy for Epcot.
> SDD, ROR, for HS. Could also see MMRR & SR being added to that list.
> 
> It will be interesting to see what kind of prices they are charging for LL. If they are truly ridiculous, that will really dampen the experience, and just give lead to increased dissatisfaction amongst parkgoers.
> 
> Also not a fan of doing everything day of at 7am. Disney's IT is not known for being the best (or even just decent), so I could see people having issues. Would seem much easier for everyone to book their first Genie+ pass a week out, and then the next one once you are in the park.


I do wonder if some of the rides with lightning pass will overlap with genie +. Because I can see Peter Pan being one of those.


----------



## queenadnama

I'm predicting that, at some point, this service becomes available for Deluxe Resort guests for free. I say 'predict' only because Universal has a similar perk to their deluxe resorts with Express Pass, and at this point staying on property (especially deluxe) is becoming so moot it's a little laughable.


----------



## JenSop

Wow - I can't keep up with reading everything!  Lol!
I did want to chime in with one more thing - I'm not averse to change.  Really, I'm not.  But to COMPLETELY change to a paid tiered system, when it was fully included before, with no transition is what irks me.  Also, there is NO benefit for on-site guests in this new system.  At least with FP+, onsite guests could book their rides before off-site guests.  There seems to be a huge move to NO on-site benefits.  Which I find baffling.


----------



## honeymo78

Here are a few of my additional thoughts:
Honestly a little surprised that people are complaining about buying the 2 individual attraction passes plus Genie+ on every park day, especially for long trips.  Unless you will be there at an extremely busy time, I can't imagine needing to buy everything on each day of a multiple visit to each park, unless you really wanted to.  But again, waiting in some lines is no big deal for me, and that's what we did even with FP+ since I couldn't always get more FPs for the rides I wanted later in the day.  I usually have 3 Epcot days and I can't see needing to get Genie+ for all those days as only one or 2 of those days are ride heavy.  

If you don't go to the parks early, and you aren't going to buy the add-ons, I don't think you need to get up at 7am to book your fist Genie+.  Wouldn't booking at 7am get you an early morning, park opening time slot? If you are more likely to roll in at 10am or later, why not just book when you normally get up?  I don't think waking up early would get you the timeslot you were looking for in the first place.


----------



## WhitneyMB

The biggest question in my family is when this will begin, as we have a Labor Day trip coming up. It’s just hearsay, but on another board someone said they worked for Disney had had training on Genie+ tomorrow/Friday. They predicted a rollout the following Tuesday 
Anyone have any additional news or rumors about the time table?


----------



## disneydreamer1980

This will add $1050 to my 7 person family’s 10 park days. For something previously free. Insane.


----------



## EddieMI

queenadnama said:


> I'm predicting that, at some point, this service becomes available for Deluxe Resort guests for free. I say 'predict' only because Universal has a similar perk to their deluxe resorts with Express Pass, and at this point staying on property (especially deluxe) is becoming so moot it's a little laughable.


Possibly, but I am predicting it would only be offered as an incentive during off season to get you to do Deluxe instead of the 35% off they offer now.


----------



## BroadwayHermione5

queenadnama said:


> I'm predicting that, at some point, this service becomes available for Deluxe Resort guests for free. I say 'predict' only because Universal has a similar perk to their deluxe resorts with Express Pass, and at this point staying on property (especially deluxe) is becoming so moot it's a little laughable.


I actually hadn't thought of this. I for one was hoping it would be more like express pass but i can totally see it becoming something for DVC first, then deluxe, maybe a modified version for moderate, value etc.


----------



## Farro

kylenne said:


> Idk, I wonder if those situations will be balanced out by how many couples are like us, where one person is the crazy type A planner type and the other one is cool with whatever, the “just tell me when to show up” type. My gf is so laid back I could tell her we gotta get up 4am and do the ice bucket challenge to get into a park and she’d be fine as long as she got her dole whip on time



I'm so lucky to have the same kind of relationship with my guy! 

He just wants to go to Disney, he doesn't care about whatever plans I make, just happy to be there. 

Although if he has his mind set on a certain snack - everyone, just stay out of his way until he gets it.


----------



## Katie Dawn

mousefan73 said:


> A miserable morning for mom  while everyone else is still sleeping. At least this is how it works in this family. I’m the one that spends  months out planning and then I get the bad end of the stick While on vacation not being able to relax but instead being our family’s  concierge service.



Yep.  Although, in our family's case at 7am no one is asleep. We are all up, getting dressed, coffee, breakfast, etc. I'm the one who knows exactly what we're doing, when we have to be out the door, where the toothpaste is (ha) or whatever... So I would really like to focus on that morning chaos within my family. I was good with taking a moment to try for a Boarding Group for ROTR/Ratatouille but this sounds like there will be a whole series of things I'll need to be focusing on via my phone. Sounds like a great way to start the day.


----------



## GrumpySue

Usually while I am on vacation, I try to spend LESS time checking my phone.  I can just see everyone in the parks tripping over each other while staring down at their phones ALL DAY checking availability for everything.  I loved having everything planned out before I arrived, I felt better able to relax once I got there.  Also I agree that Disney's IT is far from adequate and will definitely have issues with everyone slamming the site at 7:00 AM.


----------



## Sjm9911

honeymo78 said:


> Here are a few of my additional thoughts:
> Honestly a little surprised that people are complaining about buying the 2 individual attraction passes plus Genie+ on every park day, especially for long trips.  Unless you will be there at an extremely busy time, I can't imagine needing to buy everything on each day of a multiple visit to each park, unless you really wanted to.  But again, waiting in some lines is no big deal for me, and that's what we did even with FP+ since I couldn't always get more FPs for the rides I wanted later in the day.  I usually have 3 Epcot days and I can't see needing to get Genie+ for all those days as only one or 2 of those days are ride heavy.
> 
> If you don't go to the parks early, and you aren't going to buy the add-ons, I don't think you need to get up at 7am to book your fist Genie+.  Wouldn't booking at 7am get you an early morning, park opening time slot? If you are more likely to roll in at 10am or later, why not just book when you normally get up?  I don't think waking up early would get you the timeslot you were looking for in the first place.


Not really, when they had fast pass, you usally booked it for around an hour or an hour and a half after the park opened, as the lines were short at rope drop. So , at rd do a few rides, then hit your fast passes. If you want the good rides at a certian time, you will need to get up. If you dont care about rides, or lines, you probably will not even spent the 15$ to begin with.


----------



## Obi-J Kenobi

disneydreamer1980 said:


> This will add $1050 to my 7 person family’s 10 park days. For something previously free. Insane.


That's tough.  It seems large groups are going to really take it in the shorts.  I'm a little surprised (although not entirely surprised) that WDW didn't put a ceiling for Genie and large families.


----------



## SealedSeven

honeymo78 said:


> If you are more likely to roll in at 10am or later, why not just book when you normally get up? I don't think waking up early would get you the timeslot you were looking for in the first place.



Depends on how fast the passes for rides go. We'll have to wait and see how many are available throughout the day before can say it's safe to sleep in. Who knows, Big Thunder may be booked through the whole day before 8am....


----------



## queenadnama

EddieMI said:


> Possibly, but I am predicting it would only be offered as an incentive during off season to get you to do Deluxe instead of the 35% off they offer now.



I think you are more right than I am, which is the worst part lol. I'd rather get the 35% deal.



BroadwayHermione5 said:


> I actually hadn't thought of this. I for one was hoping it would be more like express pass but i can totally see it becoming something for DVC first, then deluxe, maybe a modified version for moderate, value etc.



I think your system is probably what they'll do -- DVC, then deluxe, then at most for moderate but none for value.


----------



## Delilah1310

I really want to withhold my judgement on this until I see the list of attractions in Genie+ and those that are LL. And what the LL price point will be.

Like many others here, I used MaxPass at Disneyland and it worked really well for our family and our touring style.
The Genie+ idea seems to be a re-branded MaxPass and I am fine with that. $15 a day does add up, but perhaps still a manageable upgrade to maximize time in the parks - our family is willing to do this.

But will I even need to use LL beyond that?
If staying deluxe, I will have extra hours at MK and EP (if I time my dates right) ... with those limited crowds, I can likely do all the LL attractions as stand-by without an unreasonable wait time because of the limited access. Don't need LL for MK and EP.

I can wake at 7 and try for a ROTR boarding group - included with my park ticket, no extra change. If I get that BG, I may not need LL for HS ... depends on the list of LL attractions.

I don't see a work-around for Flight of Passage, though. So really AK would be a LL for me, unless i just wanted to do rope drop or end-of-day line mitigation strategies. 

So i might just be looking at LL for one, possibly two parks. 

Listen ... I totally think these extra charges for so many activities all over, all at once right now is such a bad look for Disney while the world is still in a pandemic. It's just ... a lot.

But it almost feels like Disney wants to rip the band-aid off quickly ... put all the new "upgrade" charges and changes in place at once, so all of our frustration is vented once and not over and over again with each release months apart.


----------



## BroadwayHermione5

Random but has anyone figured out how this affects dining and other things that require advanced reservations like Savi's? Will we be able to  still reserve dining ahead of time?


----------



## Lashed34

The more I read replies to this thread the clearer it gets that going to WDW will be more stressful than ever. I don't need to have a stressful vacation.

It feels like going to WDW will be like Black Friday every single second of the day, rushing and pushing and stressing and NO...no way does this sound like fun.

The whole thing creates at atmosphere of competitiveness that doesn't sound healthy at all.


----------



## jimmymc

Delirium said:


> Even for early risers like you, it gives you an advantage on ONE ride.  You can only get one at a time.  You can't use that one until you are actually in the park.  Once you are in the park, you are in the same boat as everyone else.  FastPass+ not only gave you an advantage on THREE rides, it allowed you to better plan your day because you knew where you needed to be in advance.
> 
> Based on what I just explained, help me understand why this is a good thing for onsite guests.



Actually I think it's a huge advantage for offsite guests. Top tier fastpasses were usually gone by 30 days.


----------



## TangledHairDon'tCare

disneydreamer1980 said:


> This will add $1050 to my 7 person family’s 10 park days. For something previously free. Insane.


Do you really think you’ll need/want genie+ for 10 park days though?


----------



## Farro

Honestly, this is almost exactly like paper fast passes, obviously now you have to pay though, unfortunately.

It was same thing - if you weren't at the park for rope-drop and to start getting those pieces of paper, you were pretty much shut out by noon. Those were stressful trips.  

And oh boy, the outcry that happened when fast pass plus was introduced.


----------



## Boardwalk III

JenSop said:


> Wow - I can't keep up with reading everything!  Lol!
> I did want to chime in with one more thing - I'm not averse to change.  Really, I'm not.  But to COMPLETELY change to a paid tiered system, when it was fully included before, with no transition is what irks me.  Also, there is NO benefit for on-site guests in this new system.  At least with FP+, onsite guests could book their rides before off-site guests.  There seems to be a huge move to NO on-site benefits.  Which I find baffling.



We’re DVC so will always be on-site. We have a trip planned for November and based on what I’ve read so far we are more likely to use the 30 minute early opening window some days and the late night hours at MK & Epcot on other days, which are both positive additions for on-site guests in my opinion.  While I’m not surprised about this move to paid FP as it’s been coming for a while, and do think the $15 daily price point is reasonable…..the daily 7 AM reservation requirement (in order to get a good time) as well as limiting to one selection at a time are real downsides of Genie + for me. Time will tell as it rolls out I guess!


----------



## thedarksyde

WhitneyMB said:


> The biggest question in my family is when this will begin, as we have a Labor Day trip coming up. It’s just hearsay, but on another board someone said they worked for Disney had had training on Genie+ tomorrow/Friday. They predicted a rollout the following Tuesday
> Anyone have any additional news or rumors about the time table?


Well they said Fall, and that is at the earliest Sep 21st.  I would expect they do not want to roll it out right before the 50th.  I suspect Nov 1st target date.


----------



## Farro

thedarksyde said:


> Well they said Fall, and that is at the earliest Sep 21st.  I would expect they do not want to roll it out right before the 50th.  I suspect Nov 1st target date.



Boo.

I'd rather have for my October trip if it's going to help with the insanity of the crowds that are predicted...


----------



## Sjm9911

BroadwayHermione5 said:


> Random but has anyone figured out how this affects dining and other things that require advanced reservations like Savi's? Will we be able to  still reserve dining ahead of time?


Im sure they qill still take advanced reservations for dining, but you could score your pass for a ride on the opposite end of the park for that time. I guess it will then be up to you, at 7 am and maybe not yet caffinated and half way groggy to make a decision for your group. And then inform the familly of your decision.  Not my idea of a good time.


----------



## BroadwayHermione5

thedarksyde said:


> Well they said Fall, and that is at the earliest Sep 21st.  I would expect they do not want to roll it out right before the 50th.  I suspect Nov 1st target date.


While a lot of people have been saying October 1st for the rollout, I can see it happening after that as well.


----------



## BroadwayHermione5

Sjm9911 said:


> Im sure they qill still take advanced reservations for dining, but you could score your pass for a ride on the opposite end of the park for that time. I guess it will then be up to you, at 7 am and maybe not yet caffinated and half way groggy to make a decision for your group. And then inform the familly of your decision.  Not my idea of a good time.


I am wondering though if the genie plus will know you have that reservation and will try for something else. For example you have a sci fi reservation, they are probably going to suggest Star Tours/Muppets/something in Galaxy's Edge.

Or you just got off Haunted Mansion and CHH is too busy right now come back later/go to pecos bills.  

Its definitely going to be trial and error for a while but I do wonder if that is something that is going to happen.


----------



## Lashed34

Coming in 2022 - want to guarantee your restaurant reservation....just get Genie+Gold.

Coming 2023 - want to breathe fresh air....just get Genie+O2


----------



## jimmymc

JakeAZ said:


> If everyone has it, nobody has it



That's probably my biggest concern. If you charged $100 then very few people would pay and the standby lines wouldn't be too bad. But at $15, it might be necessary to get on anything with less than a 1 hour wait.


----------



## mi*vida*loca

kylenne said:


> Idk, I wonder if those situations will be balanced out by how many couples are like us, where one person is the crazy type A planner type and the other one is cool with whatever, the “just tell me when to show up” type. My gf is so laid back I could tell her we gotta get up 4am and do the ice bucket challenge to get into a park and she’d be fine as long as she got her dole whip on time



This is my SO and DD too. I’ve done one mom/daughter trip and have another planned. My SO and I want to do an adult trip in a few years. They just go with whatever I say. I don’t think my SO even knows what a FP is or even an ADR. Lol. If I say we go to this ride and we eat here now he’s like let’s go. My daughter adapts to change well and rolls with it too. If I say we have to do this ride while the line is short and then we can do the ride you want next she’s with it. 

My son is the complete opposite and I learned once he hit his teen years that Disney as a family trip isn’t very relaxing and fun (after our last family trip that went a bit crazy). Now with this new system it would probably be worse. We go to other destinations as a family and my son told me a few years back that he’s kinda over Disney  (he told me this when I offered a mother/son trip) So don’t feel bad that we go without him. Lol


----------



## CarolynFH

BroadwayHermione5 said:


> I am wondering though if the genie plus will know you have that reservation and will try for something else. For example you have a sci fi reservation, they are probably going to suggest Star Tours/Muppets/something in Galaxy's Edge.
> 
> Or you just got off Haunted Mansion and CHH is too busy right now come back later/go to pecos bills.
> 
> Its definitely going to be trial and error for a while but I do wonder if that is something that is going to happen.


Since Genie is MDE on steroids, I’m confident that it will know about the ADRs you’ve already made and plan your itinerary for the day around them.


----------



## brightlined

Lashed34 said:


> F&F I agree with, just a complete waste of space, but Jimmy Fallon we absolutely loved - great fun, rode it lots when we were there.


Part of my complaining there is because, at the same time that UO opened those two rides (and imported King Kong from USH), Disney opened Pandora / Flight of Passage. Even in this thread, it's like people have memory-holed that Disney built and opened Galaxy's Edge while UO opened Hagrid's, which was broken for the first several months it was open. People can readily argue that Universal is coming up with great stuff, but GE was a solid attempt at letting Imagineering go big.

(At to the person lauding Velocicoaster - installing a standard roller coaster takes a lot less time to finish than any ride that includes new and different technology, which, by all accounts, Guardians does.)

I'll admit, too: I'm going a little Inside Baseball on Fallon. I personally didn't like it because it felt like a 90s CGI-heavy retread (and felt more like an echo of Conan's Late Night rather than Fallon's). But then I spoke to someone who worked on it, who acknowledged that it wasn't the ride that they had originally intended it to be. One of the key personalities involved (who I'll leave nameless) demanded a bunch of changes that diminished (in my opinion) what it could have been. The original concept sounded amazing.

I personally think UO is just "fine". I was a UO passholder a couple years ago, and just couldn't find the energy to go more than a handful of times. I have friends who specifically avoid UO because it can cost as much (or more) than Disney for a one-day ticket if you want to ride the Hogwart's Express, which is a solidly great attraction. (To be fair, a few of them have also admitted that they're getting priced out of a WDW trip.)

But I also think the whole "I'm going to Universal instead" whenever Disney does something questionable is just weak sauce. If you want to do that, fine. But it's not the threat that it sounds like it is.

I think Disney should genuinely be worried about Epic Universe - assuming UO can get it built and it lives up to the hype.

("I'm going to Universal instead" is still a better argument than the people on the DL board who reacted to DLR's changes at reopening by loudly proclaiming that they were going to Knott's instead. Not that Knott's is bad, but it's not even in the same league as Disney or USH. It'd be almost like proclaiming that you were giving up your WDW AP to go to Fun Spot.)


----------



## Stormtrooper mum

Forgive me if I’ve missed this.  Planning a dec trip to just ak.  Realise FOP will be one of the extra paid lighting pass lines but what else do we think would be in that tier at ak?   Got to be honest, willing to pay to avoid the lines with my elderly dad and 6 year old son...


----------



## tsme

I’m trying to reserve my opinion until I see how it works in real time. However, I hate having to stay looking at my phone while on vacation, I do find it is a blatant money grab, I find what I’ve read to be a bit confusing so far (like I can see people getting confused with Genie + lightning lane & extra cost lightning lane, especially those who aren’t fanatics like most of us), I don’t have confidence in Disney’s IT (the app & website is notorious for crashing, plans disappearing, & generally poor internet service in the parks), all these things would give guests & the poor CMs who have to deal with irate guests huge headaches. But since Disney doesn’t give a rat’s biscuits what any of us think, guess we’ll have learn to deal with it. OR go somewhere else for vacations


----------



## kylenne

EPCOT-O.G. said:


> Since you say you put your money where your mouth is when it comes to the dehumanization of marginalized communities, you must not be aware of the plight Chinese Uighurs since you continue to go to Disney parks.



For the record, I didn’t pay to see live action Mulan and I have yet to stream it even for “free” (I get D+ through Verizon). Regardless, this is not the time or place to have the “there’s no ethical consumption under late stage capitalism” discussion. I just responded the way I did because I’m tired of the assumption that everyone will just want to go to Universal instead any time Disney does something people don’t like. A lot of people definitely will. But for some of us that’s not something we would do, for a lot of reasons. I gave mine, which is their contract/financial relationship with JK Rowling. For others it could be as simple as they don’t like the rides there or it doesn’t work for their family. Like I said, there are many other vacation options besides Disney and Universal and many more places to go besides theme parks. If we ever reach our breaking point we’ll just head to them more often. I have family all over Europe who I haven’t seen since before lockdown.


----------



## jimmymc

JakeAZ said:


> So, you can make "one at a time".  Does that mean if my next lightning pass is 3 hours from now, I can't book another one until I ride that?  The "next generation of Max Pass" sounds very restrictive.



Wasn't that the case with Maxpass anyway? One pass at a time?


----------



## HopperFan

.


BroadwayHermione5 said:


> Random but has anyone figured out how this affects dining and other things that require advanced reservations like Savi's? Will we be able to  still reserve dining ahead of time?



I would watch the video Disney put out, I think it is way more informative to visually see it than just read their blog.  You can see that you can still book ADR, join waitlists (new with COVID), do mobile ordering etc.  I think it will be much easier than most think.

*











*


----------



## Sjm9911

Could be, that could kinda be worse, as disney will be herding you to rides to space out the crowds. Or better , as it would create best times for rides. Who knows. I would hate to be the one that gets sent to all the rides i didnt want and have the day be over. Plus , i kinda like to plan out my areas and what im doing before hand. Just so much thats not known. I feel like a test subject.


----------



## eleven24

So the TLDR version of this is you pay $15 a day per person for the right to hold one reservation at a time for the rides that are the least popular rides.  On top of that, the popular attractions will cost a varying price based on demand, and guests are permitted 2 of these per day.

In other words, Disney is once again taking something that used to be free and charging for it.  So now your Disney trip includes cost of getting from airport to Disney resort (no more DME) and it's mandatory to have a mobile phone with you to visit the park (no more Magic Bands).


----------



## SealedSeven

Delilah1310 said:


> But will I even need to use LL beyond that?
> If staying deluxe, I will have extra hours at MK and EP (if I time my dates right) ... with those limited crowds, I can likely do all the LL attractions as stand-by without an unreasonable wait time because of the limited access. Don't need LL for MK and EP.
> 
> I can wake at 7 and try for a ROTR boarding group - included with my park ticket, no extra change. If I get that BG, I may not need LL for HS ... depends on the list of LL attractions.
> 
> I don't see a work-around for Flight of Passage, though. So really AK would be a LL for me, unless i just wanted to do rope drop or end-of-day line mitigation strategies.



Doesn't the Extra Hours for DVC rotate between all 4 parks? (has there been more info released?) All the LL should be available to DVC with ease during those times..... hopefully...


----------



## Skippyboo

Stormtrooper mum said:


> Forgive me if I’ve missed this.  Planning a dec trip to just ak.  Realise FOP will be one of the extra paid lighting pass lines but what else do we think would be in that tier at ak?   Got to be honest, willing to pay to avoid the lines with my elderly dad and 6 year old son...


I would guess Navi River Journey would be the other one. The 2 Pandora rides were both Tier 1 FP in the before times.


----------



## ppony

Here comes Disney’s very own class system. I REALLY hoped they wouldn’t ever go down this road. It’s utterly antithetical to what “Disney” is supposed to be and mean.


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

eleven24 said:


> So the TLDR version of this is you pay $15 a day per person for the right to hold one reservation at a time for the rides that are the least popular rides.  On top of that, the popular attractions will cost a varying price based on demand, and guests are permitted 2 of these per day.
> 
> In other words, Disney is once again taking something that used to be free and charging for it.  So now your Disney trip includes cost of getting from airport to Disney resort (no more DME) and it's mandatory to have a mobile phone with you to visit the park (no more Magic Bands).


Not sure about the Magic Band part.  I’d assume you can still use them, at least for the foreseeable future, to access LL and Genie +


----------



## eleven24

Sjm9911 said:


> Could be, that could kinda be worse, as disney will be herding you to rides to space out the crowds. Or better , as it would create best times for rides. Who knows. I would hate to be the one that gets sent to all the rides i didnt want and have the day be over. Plus , i kinda like to plan out my areas and what im doing before hand. Just so much thats not known. I feel like a test subject.



It's definitely crowd management with the Genie suggesting where to go in the park.  On the surface it's a great idea for those who don't visit often or who don't like planning out their vacations, but it's relying on AI to curate someone's Disney experience.

For us, part of the fun was the months leading up to Disney.  Trying to get the FP for a ride.  Planning out our days.  Now?  Meh.  Just let the app do it.


----------



## RedK

The thing that gets me is - in order for G+ to work, Disney is going to have to make huge upgrades to their IT infrastructure. 

Upgrades to wireless connectivity and bandwidth in all resorts to enable mass connection attempts at 7 am
Upgrades to wireless connectivity and bandwidth in all parks and parking lots to enable constant connections
MASSIVE updates to their database functionality, speed, monitoring, etc to support the 7 am connection surge, plus DR backups
Likely large updates to their log monitoring and troubleshooting
Enhanced IT testing teams to support regular QA with every OS update on every phone, to make sure it all still works
Given Disney's lack of success in these exact things over the past few years, I think the first few months of G+ are likely to be really really ugly, with people unable to get on at 7 am to get the rides they want, freezes, query issues, etc.


----------



## eleven24

ENJDisneyFan said:


> Not sure about the Magic Band part.  I’d assume you can still use them, at least for the foreseeable future, to access LL and Genie +



The Magic Bands will still work, and are still being sold.  They're just no longer a complimentary item when booking at a Disney resort.  Now they sell it as "Being a Disney resort guest you have the privilege of buying exclusive magic bands that are not available in the park".

Not that I need them, because we have a collection.  It's just a fun way to look back on our trips based on the magic bands we have collected and written the dates on the insides.


----------



## Sjm9911

HopperFan said:


> .
> 
> 
> I would watch the video Disney put out, I think it is way more informative to visually see it than just read their blog.  You can see that you can still book ADR, join waitlists (new with COVID), do mobile ordering etc.  I think it will be much easier than most think.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 598206*


Thanks for that. Ill watch it when i can process this better. Tbh, i wish they mailed me this when they put out a press release.  Getting the info here first feels like a punch in the gut. I figure they could at least send it out to the people that it may effect. I know they dont have a firm date for rollout. But a heads up would be nice when you have like a 2 week trip of a lifetime planned out comming up in November.


----------



## KittyKitty

Sargeant Tibbs said:


> With increased pricing and no incentives to stay on property I was already leaning towards split Uni/WDW trips in the future, with more


  There is an advantage. If you stay on property, you can book(?) your LL at 7am. Offsite have to wait till park opening. Also can get into parks earlier in the morning.  

That is how I understand it.  Could be wrong.


----------



## eleven24

RedK said:


> The thing that gets me is - in order for G+ to work, Disney is going to have to make huge upgrades to their IT infrastructure.
> 
> Upgrades to wireless connectivity and bandwidth in all resorts to enable mass connection attempts at 7 am
> Upgrades to wireless connectivity and bandwidth in all parks and parking lots to enable constant connections
> MASSIVE updates to their database functionality, speed, monitoring, etc to support the 7 am connection surge, plus DR backups
> Likely large updates to their log monitoring and troubleshooting
> Enhanced IT testing teams to support regular QA with every OS update on every phone, to make sure it all still works
> Given Disney's lack of success in these exact things over the past few years, I think the first few months of G+ are likely to be really really ugly, with people unable to get on at 7 am to get the rides they want, freezes, query issues, etc.



Why?  It's not like there's ever a problem with the 7am surge for Rise.


----------



## ThornXBL

jimmymc said:


> Wasn't that the case with Maxpass anyway? One pass at a time?



MaxPass let you get another pass after like 90min, even if your previous pass was for a later time and hasn't been used yet.
The wording so far for Genie+ sounds like this is no longer a thing, but who knows


----------



## CeCe0906

thedarksyde said:


> Well they said Fall, and that is at the earliest Sep 21st.  I would expect they do not want to roll it out right before the 50th.  I suspect Nov 1st target date.


I think I'm glad I just got back from my trip, and it will be awhile before the next one.  Get all the kinks worked out,and you guys will have all the strategies figured out for me.  
Given that they are doing Halloween stuff so early, I wouldn't count on 
"Fall" being offical start of fall.  Many people consider Labor Day the last of summer.  I bet they roll it out after that.  Since they expect huge crowds for the 50th, I can see them wanting to use the Genie to mitigate waits and not have people complaining about no options to skip long lines.  Also early Sept start gives them time to work out issues that crop up before the huge crowds descend.
One issue I had was WiFi in park.  I often had to switch to data to get mobile orders to work or to use app to check wait times. Now with people having to use it for all this extra stuff, I'm sure their WiFi will be even more taxed.   I bought a magic band to avoid having to continuously have my phone out, so having to use it more is annoying for me


----------



## T-Daddy

The whole thing has become too tedious and I'm tired of being treated like a wallet.

I know nobody cares, least of all Disney, but I'm just about done. I've sold off some DVC points, I'll be selling off more, and this will be my last annual pass. They've managed to turn a Disney fanatic into a hater.


----------



## EPCOT-O.G.

RedK said:


> The thing that gets me is - in order for G+ to work, Disney is going to have to make huge upgrades to their IT infrastructure.
> 
> Upgrades to wireless connectivity and bandwidth in all resorts to enable mass connection attempts at 7 am
> Upgrades to wireless connectivity and bandwidth in all parks and parking lots to enable constant connections
> MASSIVE updates to their database functionality, speed, monitoring, etc to support the 7 am connection surge, plus DR backups
> Likely large updates to their log monitoring and troubleshooting
> Enhanced IT testing teams to support regular QA with every OS update on every phone, to make sure it all still works
> Given Disney's lack of success in these exact things over the past few years, I think the first few months of G+ are likely to be really really ugly, with people unable to get on at 7 am to get the rides they want, freezes, query issues, etc.


I am a cheapo and have an old hand me down iPhone 6 to use for MDE (my work phone limits 3rd party apps, and I use my personal iPad in the morning for ROTR BG). Relying on Parks wifi made it virtually impossible to place a mobile order. It wouldn't give me a reliable signal anywhere, and I'd have to use my wife's current phone with LTE to have any hope of successfully scoring reservations or placing orders - and even that was buggy about 20% of the time


----------



## JustinS30

rockinrollercoasters said:


> And no benefit for staying in a Disney hotel.



this has been my question in making sure I’m understanding correctly. My current understanding is the $15/day for Genie+ is essentially no benefit because everyone can reserve their first attraction at the same time. 

The “benefit” comes in when you’re on site you can have have extra time to pay more for the top tier attractions.

I think I have that right?


----------



## Sjm9911

RedK said:


> The thing that gets me is - in order for G+ to work, Disney is going to have to make huge upgrades to their IT infrastructure.
> 
> Upgrades to wireless connectivity and bandwidth in all resorts to enable mass connection attempts at 7 am
> Upgrades to wireless connectivity and bandwidth in all parks and parking lots to enable constant connections
> MASSIVE updates to their database functionality, speed, monitoring, etc to support the 7 am connection surge, plus DR backups
> Likely large updates to their log monitoring and troubleshooting
> Enhanced IT testing teams to support regular QA with every OS update on every phone, to make sure it all still works
> Given Disney's lack of success in these exact things over the past few years, I think the first few months of G+ are likely to be really really ugly, with people unable to get on at 7 am to get the rides they want, freezes, query issues, etc.


I had good plans also, got on every ride in one day, sometimes more then once. And yea, infastruture may be a problem.  I stay at the fort and the wifi there is nonexistent in most places. I cant imagine having to get up, cook breakfast, shower get the kid ready and then search out a spot for phone service or wifi. This will not be the case for everyone, and to think i was worried aout getting up at 7 to try for a boarding group. Lol.


----------



## jimmymc

ThornXBL said:


> MaxPass let you get another pass after like 90min, even if your previous pass was for a later time and hasn't been used yet.
> The wording so far for Genie+ sounds like this is no longer a thing, but who knows



Ok, I did not know that about Maxpass. And I interpreted the Genie+ announcement the same way, one attraction at a time.


----------



## PirateNovelist

What I am now worried about is the main ride I am going down to DW for, Remmy, is virtual queue. Do I need to snag a now elusive boarding pass for this ON TOP OF the $15? or will that $15 for the ride guarantee me to be able to ride?


----------



## Sargeant Tibbs

brightlined said:


> Part of my complaining there is because, at the same time that UO opened those two rides (and imported King Kong from USH), Disney opened Pandora / Flight of Passage. Even in this thread, it's like people have memory-holed that Disney built and opened Galaxy's Edge while UO opened Hagrid's, which was broken for the first several months it was open. People can readily argue that Universal is coming up with great stuff, but GE was a solid attempt at letting Imagineering go big.
> 
> (At to the person lauding Velocicoaster - installing a standard roller coaster takes a lot less time to finish than any ride that includes new and different technology, which, by all accounts, Guardians does.)



Except that Galaxy's Edge is Disney's belated response to all of HP. 

On the first day of opening ROTR was down for hours. I know, I was there. And it continues to break down almost daily. 

For people who love roller coasters (I do not), Velocicoaster is in a league of it's own. My husband said it's the best roller coaster he's ever ridden.


----------



## jimmymc

JustinS30 said:


> this has been my question in making sure I’m understanding correctly. My current understanding is the $15/day for Genie+ is essentially no benefit because everyone can reserve their first attraction at the same time.
> 
> The “benefit” comes in when you’re on site you can have have extra time to pay more for the top tier attractions.
> 
> I think I have that right?



I thought on-site guests could reserve the first attraction at 7 am, while off-site had to wait until park opening or they were in the park.


----------



## ThornXBL

jimmymc said:


> Ok, I did not know that about Maxpass. And I interpreted the Genie+ announcement the same way, one attraction at a time.



Yeah, the MaxPass "next pass" timing worked the same as the paper FastPass system, since DLR was running both of those together before COVID.


----------



## dunkindonut

Splash Mountain retheme I wonder if it will get a VQ too. All I know is that Tokyo Disney has never looked better than ever, OLC could proudly take my money since their offerings are just way better. What a sad time to be a Disney park fan, the fact that Tokyo would probably be cheaper than going to WDW is an unbelievable thought.


----------



## Lashed34

PirateNovelist said:


> What I am now worried about is the main ride I am going down to DW for, Remmy, is virtual queue. Do I need to snag a now elusive boarding pass for this ON TOP OF the $15? or will that $15 for the ride guarantee me to be able to ride?


You join a virtual queue like RotR, subject to it being avaiable, but you could also pay extra for a Lightning Lane - subject to one being available.


----------



## jimmymc

PirateNovelist said:


> What I am now worried about is the main ride I am going down to DW for, Remmy, is virtual queue. Do I need to snag a now elusive boarding pass for this ON TOP OF the $15? or will that $15 for the ride guarantee me to be able to ride?



Boarding passes will still be free, or you can pay for a guaranteed ride.


----------



## kbelle8995

I have mixed feelings.  I'm an Ap holder who didn't feel that the FP+ was not totally even and didn't work for everyone.  The new rides were slim to none possibility of getting a FP.  I think that FP was used too much by too many.  I also wonder how much they will charge for these top tier attraction s.


----------



## CarolynFH

PirateNovelist said:


> What I am now worried about is the main ride I am going down to DW for, Remmy, is virtual queue. Do I need to snag a now elusive boarding pass for this ON TOP OF the $15? or will that $15 for the ride guarantee me to be able to ride?


The $15 is for Genie+, which gets you into the LL for the “ordinary” rides. Remy will be the top tier - you can try for the VQ, and if not successful then you can pay for the LL access at a price that will vary depending on demand and other factors.


----------



## mi*vida*loca

Seems that this new system will benefit first time guests and once in a lifetime guests the most.


----------



## Delirium

jimmymc said:


> Actually I think it's a huge advantage for offsite guests. Top tier fastpasses were usually gone by 30 days.


.  

Correct.  My point was in response to someone touting the 'benefit' to onsite guests of getting to make your choice at 7 a.m.  If anyone thinks that is a better deal for onsite guests than what we had with FP+, then I have some beachfront property in Nebraska to sell them.


----------



## mouserrificmom

I won't complain before I have a chance to see it in action . . . the concept (except for the additional fee for headliners) feels very much like the orginial paper fast pass program back in the day, but at a cost and without the benefit of being able to gift a random stranger coming in to the park as you are leaving with a fastpass you won't be using - gosh how I loved doing that!! 

What surprises me most is how Disney does seem to be doing their very best at stripping the benefits of staying on property away from guests.  I have several close friends who no longer stay on property due to the resort parking fees, more who will not because of the loss of Magical Express. We still value the feeling of the "Disney Bubble" but when I look at what trip might cost if we were to move off site and benefit from more space I am sometimes amazed at what we do continue to tolearte paying for.  Our family trip costs will rise significantly now that we will no longer be able to take advantage of ("free") Magical Express and will likely pay a per day fee for genie+ If am reading it correctly, I will no longer have to purchase memory maker which I typically purchase for every trip, but the cost increase would far exceed the cost of memory maker (for my family of 5, if I were to purchase Genie+ benefits for each of our park days, a trip cost would rise $525).  I wonder too how that will work - are you only eligible for photo downloads on the days that your purchased Lighting Lane, and not necessarily your whole trip?

Sounds like there are a lot of kinks that still need to be worked out - while I am certain it would never happen, I wish that the cost of entering a park might be reduced to accommodate for the additional cost of paying for your ride selections.  The costs are already so outrageous, and add on after add on makes it so much more so. I just hope that my children will be able to bring their children to Walt Disney World when they get to that stage in life and that it doesn't become so expensive that it is out of reach.


----------



## tguz

disneydreamer1980 said:


> This will add $1050 to my 7 person family’s 10 park days. For something previously free. Insane.


I don't have any way of knowing but maybe it is allowed to only buy the $15 add on for certain days and not all days of the vacation?  I am hoping so because we have a 10 day trip in December and I wouldn't need to buy it for every day since we will visit all parks multiple times.


----------



## dunkindonut

I also think that using LL as a pay to enter thing is such garbage. Rise of the Resistance is a phenomenal ride but the queue issue is non other but the fault of Disney. Disney clearly should have designed it better, and now if you REALLY want to ride ROTR you can just pay? Such garbage. What a sickening time.


----------



## jim01

disneydreamer1980 said:


> This will add $1050 to my 7 person family’s 10 park days. For something previously free. Insane.


You also get park music and photo filters, sounds like a deal to me.


----------



## gharter

So in the end, they raised ticket prices by $45+ per person without raising ticket prices.
Would have been nice to have given some benefit to those staying on site.  Maybe let you get your LL a week earlier, give an extra LL ordinary or top tier for spending the extra to stay on site.
Losing many of the perks of on site, I wonder if this will drive more people to stay off site?


----------



## CarolynFH

mouserrificmom said:


> If am reading it correctly, I will no longer have to purchase memory maker


I think that’s just for Disneyland, not for WDW - sorry!


----------



## jimmymc

Delirium said:


> .
> 
> Correct.  My point was in response to someone touting the 'benefit' to onsite guests of getting to make your choice at 7 a.m.  If anyone thinks that is a better deal for onsite guests than what we had with FP+, then I have some beachfront property in Nebraska to sell them.



Oh yes that's definitely true. The value of being on-site continues to drop.


----------



## mouserrificmom

CarolynFH said:


> I think that’s just for Disneyland, not for WDW - sorry!


well phooey!


----------



## Goofy'slady

Wdw1015 said:


> Great article from DFB that breaks it all down:
> https://www.disneyfoodblog.com/2021...isney-world-soon-and-its-called-disney-genie/



Thank you so much for linking this article. Now that it’s clearly explained and laid out to me in a way I can understand I believe my family will be taking advantage of this if it’s ready for our mid October visit. I would like to think it would be since they made mention of the new Ratatouille ride in EPCOT which opens Oct 1st.

Since my family is staying off property it makes perks like this more affordable. However, for next year’s visit we were planning on staying back on property so this will need to be heavily considered as it will increase the overall vacation for my family of four drastically.


----------



## jimmymc

gharter said:


> So in the end, they raised ticket prices by $45+ per person without raising ticket prices.
> Would have been nice to have given some benefit to those staying on site.  Maybe let you get your LL a week earlier, give an extra LL ordinary or top tier for spending the extra to stay on site.
> Losing many of the perks of on site, I wonder if this will drive more people to stay off site?



I think it all depends on how many people buy it. If only a few people do, then it's like any other park and everyone just waits in standby lines. If everyone buys it, then you're correct.

Also I agree it's a big blow to on-site perks.


----------



## PirateNovelist

jimmymc said:


> Boarding passes will still be free, or you can pay for a guaranteed ride.





Lashed34 said:


> You join a virtual queue like RotR, subject to it being avaiable, but you could also pay extra for a Lightning Lane - subject to one being available.



As much as I would hate to be like "I am going to save $15 and risk it". I am spending 2 days at Epcot for my own reasons as I didn't get to explore it the last time I went. However, it's just myself and my mom. 

While I hate to spend extra and I totally get the negative of it for those who have bigger families, I will be going for it. I won't bet getting photo pass because that going to be my ride budget and if that's all I spent it on. I recognize my own privilege with this and it's just my own personal situation.

If this means I can basically at 7 am guarantee I get ROTR and Remmy for my trip, it's worth the money for my situation. I am not dining every meal, I will be bringing my own food for most of the small trip I am going.

Since my mom is disabled, but unable to qualify for the DAC, the $15 a day for the + will really help us maximize rides. Thank you for the info.


----------



## Scott McDuck

Posting for the first time in 1.5 years just to express my disgust.  To me, it’s as simple as charging for something that used to be (and should be) free.  Also not a fan of having to wake up at 7am every morning on vacation or…well, I’m not sure what you need to do if you stay off-site.  And then on top of that, getting to pay REALLY big bucks for tier 1 rides.  But once they smell all this new money, watch out--Rise of the Resistance around Christmastime is just going to be a flat-out auction to see how much money they can extract from their wealthiest patrons.  $500 per ride?  Do I hear $600?  (And then the ride breaks down.)

They only thing more disappointing than this is the people who don’t mind or, worse, actually applaud the move.  There is a very large segment for whom no price increase, no removed benefit, no cutback in hours/shows/ride capacity will be a concern.  They will happily pay for whatever Disney does, and Disney will happily oblige.

Perhaps my favorite are people saying “we should have been expecting this.”  Why, because Disney can charge for anything?  Coming soon…Want to swim in your hotel pool?  Buy your Little Mermaid pass (or pass+ if you want a beach chair).  Nightly fireworks show?  Sorry, have to buy a special ticket for that.  As people earlier asked, how long until they charge for toilet paper, air?  They’ve become a more expensive version of Spirit Airlines.


----------



## HopperFan

BroadwayHermione5 said:


> I am wondering though if the genie plus will know you have that reservation and will try for something else. For example you have a sci fi reservation, they are probably going to suggest Star Tours/Muppets/something in Galaxy's Edge.
> 
> Or you just got off Haunted Mansion and CHH is too busy right now come back later/go to pecos bills.
> 
> Its definitely going to be trial and error for a while but I do wonder if that is something that is going to happen.



I was part of test group for MagicBands. I had a long conversation with a CM who was an IT guy.  He told me all about the new PhotoPass that was coming out attached to the MagicBand. That is could get photos without tapping etc.  That the expectation was that the sale of the PhotoPass packages alone could pay for the cost of developing the MB in xx years.

Part of our conversation was the huge capability that came with the MagicBand and what it could be used for in the future.  Well the program slowed down, stuff happened and it never got off the ground BUT our phones became very sophisticated and MDE was developed and by looking at the new video of what we can do with Genie .... we are all dwelling on Genie+ but ....  the potential bigger program for Disney is the Genie which almost all of us will be forced to use.

What you are saying is EXACTLY what the original plan was for these MagicBands, now to include Magicbands and your phone. To know where you are at all times, to know if you are in a slow part of the park so they can push you to do things there OR if it's really busy to push you to a slower part. If a restaurant isn't full, send to notifications that they are open for dining right then or if they really need it push discounts to you if you go dine. They know if you are hanging in your room or hotel too much - Genie could be used to push you offers or tell you tickets are still open for after event or dining is open at the restaurant at your hotel. Genie is there to put all kinds of ideas in your head that will help you feel like you did so much with the Genie helping BUT it will also allow Disney to drive income, manage crowds, pull CMs to areas of need. It can even do sophisticated data collection for sales and marketing - doesn't help us but could alter how things are done later.

What you are saying was part of a plan many years ago that didn't happen (according to this man but everything he said regarding PP happened for the most part) that took longer to get here than I thought, but appears to be happening from the video they made about Genie.


----------



## scard192

our trip in April 2022 will the last for my family. If I hadn't promised my 2 DGD that we would celebrate my retirement (March 2020) at Disney I would just cancel.

Does not seem to be much advantage to stay on site anymore. No free transport to/from the airport. No attraction booking advantage for staying on site. No more extra magic hours. Extra costs for things that were included a few years ago are adding up. Can I afford it, yes but I will choose not to after this trip.
Likely going to have to buy a new phone. the 2 year old one works fine for me now that I am retired, but doubt it will for Genie.

Grand kids really want to visit Universal; that will be our next trip to Orlando.


----------



## cdurham1

ucf_knight said:


> I don’t see how the free version of the genie will be beneficial if everyone has access to it and thousands are touring the parks in essentially the same way.  Maybe at MK this will be somewhat helpful as there are a lot of attractions but at parks like HS where there are only a handful I just don’t see how this will be a benefit. Pay to play will be the new norm. Really gonna miss fast pass as I had it down to a science


I think, theoretically, you are supposed to pick the attractions and interests and then genie recommends a course of action.  So, not everyone would be the same.  If everyone just picks all the attractions, then, yes, it probably won't help.  But I am generally in agreement with you.  It will be really interesting to see what percentage of guests just go with the free option and what percentage go Genie+


----------



## cdurham1

scard192 said:


> our trip in April 2022 will the last for my family. If I hadn't promised my 2 DGD that we would celebrate my retirement (March 2020) at Disney I would just cancel.
> 
> Does not seem to be much advantage to stay on site anymore. No free transport to/from the airport. No attraction booking advantage for staying on site. No more extra magic hours. Extra costs for things that were included a few years ago are adding up. Can I afford it, yes but I will choose not to after this trip.
> 
> Grand kids really want to visit Universal; that will be our next trip to Orlando.



Do it!  Universal was, by far, the highlight of our recent trip!


----------



## Lashed34

cdurham1 said:


> I think, theoretically, you are supposed to pick the attractions and interests and then genie recommends a course of action.  So, not everyone would be the same.  If everyone just picks all the attractions, then, yes, it probably won't help.  But I am generally in agreement with you.  It will be really interesting to see what percentage of guests just go with the free option and what percentage go Genie+


Could possibly work at MK, but HS? It will run out of suggestions within an hour.


----------



## brightlined

Sargeant Tibbs said:


> Except that Galaxy's Edge is Disney's belated response to all of HP.


That doesn't really mean anything. I mean, it still exists - they still built it. (They built Pandora, too.)



Sargeant Tibbs said:


> On the first day of opening ROTR was down for hours. I know, I was there. And it continues to break down almost daily.


So does Hagrid's. The point that I've been making is that Universal isn't immune from the problems that Disney has. It's closer to a "six of one-half-dozen" kind of thing. Going from Disney to Universal is trading these issues for those issues.



Sargeant Tibbs said:


> For people who love roller coasters (I do not), Velocicoaster is in a league of it's own. My husband said it's the best roller coaster he's ever ridden.


I wasn't noting the quality. (I've also heard that it's amazing - but I'll nudge that you're an echo of the many people who can't/won't be able to enjoy the new great ride at the park.) Someone was lauding how quickly Universal installed it compared to Tron or Cosmic Rewind, and it's not a fair comparison, especially with the latter.


----------



## PJ

Maybe someone already said this, but part of this sounds an awful lot like our first trip to DL in 1975 when you bought a coupon book but you could buy additional coupons for the "E ticket" rides.


----------



## PirateNovelist

Lashed34 said:


> Could possibly work at MK, but HS? It will rin out of suggestions within an hour.



If you are not into shows or if shows aren't back when you plan your trip totally see that happening.


----------



## ucf_knight

kbelle8995 said:


> I have mixed feelings.  I'm an Ap holder who didn't feel that the FP+ was not totally even and didn't work for everyone.  The new rides were slim to none possibility of getting a FP.  I think that FP was used too much by too many.  I also wonder how much they will charge for these top tier attraction s.


If you used the refresh method for FP it was fantastic for AP’s. If you didn’t know about refresh I could see the frustration. FP will be greatly missed from our family of AP’s.


----------



## pigletto

Scott McDuck said:


> Posting for the first time in 1.5 years just to express my disgust.  To me, it’s as simple as charging for something that used to be (and should be) free.  Also not a fan of having to wake up at 7am every morning on vacation or…well, I’m not sure what you need to do if you stay off-site.  And then on top of that, getting to pay REALLY big bucks for tier 1 rides.  But once they smell all this new money, watch out--Rise of the Resistance around Christmastime is just going to be a flat-out auction to see how much money they can extract from their wealthiest patrons.  $500 per ride?  Do I hear $600?  (And then the ride breaks down.)
> 
> They only thing more disappointing than this is the people who don’t mind or, worse, actually applaud the move.  There is a very large segment for whom no price increase, no removed benefit, no cutback in hours/shows/ride capacity will be a concern.  They will happily pay for whatever Disney does, and Disney will happily oblige.
> 
> Perhaps my favorite are people saying “we should have been expecting this.”  Why, because Disney can charge for anything?  Coming soon…Want to swim in your hotel pool?  Buy your Little Mermaid pass (or pass+ if you want a beach chair).  Nightly fireworks show?  Sorry, have to buy a special ticket for that.  As people earlier asked, how long until they charge for toilet paper, air?  They’ve become a more expensive version of Spirit Airlines.



For the love of all things holy , remove that Little Mermaid Pass idea and never speak of it again or it will be reality by October


----------



## Laura's Dad

I wouldn't panic yet about the off-site vs. the on-site issue.  They just announced this and not all of the details are out yet.  There may be some benefits for on-site stays that haven't been announced yet.  If there is nothing that comes out, I would agree that staying on-site would no longer be much of  a benefit.  You may get 30 minutes early to a theme park depending on transportation (I waited 40 minutes for a bus to the MK one morning at PO-R so this would not help at all).  That's not much benefit for Disney hotel prices.


----------



## mrsbdub

Wdw1015 said:


> Great article from DFB that breaks it all down:
> https://www.disneyfoodblog.com/2021...isney-world-soon-and-its-called-disney-genie/


Thank you for this article! I actually understood Disney Genie+ much more after reading it than before.


----------



## goofynut41

I Am so confused!!! This is getting too complicated for me... I am not a tect person and this is not fun anymore....


----------



## ppony

scard192 said:


> our trip in April 2022 will the last for my family. If I hadn't promised my 2 DGD that we would celebrate my retirement (March 2020) at Disney I would just cancel.
> 
> Does not seem to be much advantage to stay on site anymore. No free transport to/from the airport. No attraction booking advantage for staying on site. No more extra magic hours. Extra costs for things that were included a few years ago are adding up. Can I afford it, yes but I will choose not to after this trip.
> Likely going to have to buy a new phone. the 2 year old one works fine for me now that I am retired, but doubt it will for Genie.
> 
> Grand kids really want to visit Universal; that will be our next trip to Orlando.


I hear you. We’ve already paid for our villas next year, but looking at how cheap you can stay in full HOUSES with their own pools though an AirBNB, I think we just might give it a shot next time. I mean, a house all to ourselves w it’s own pool, 5 minutes from WDW for $2500 LESS than we’re paying for our villas? Yeah, that’s quite tempting!


----------



## Skippyboo

PirateNovelist said:


> As much as I would hate to be like "I am going to save $15 and risk it". I am spending 2 days at Epcot for my own reasons as I didn't get to explore it the last time I went. However, it's just myself and my mom.
> 
> While I hate to spend extra and I totally get the negative of it for those who have bigger families, I will be going for it. I won't bet getting photo pass because that going to be my ride budget and if that's all I spent it on. I recognize my own privilege with this and it's just my own personal situation.
> 
> If this means I can basically at 7 am guarantee I get ROTR and Remmy for my trip, it's worth the money for my situation. I am not dining every meal, I will be bringing my own food for most of the small trip I am going.
> 
> Since my mom is disabled, but unable to qualify for the DAC, the $15 a day for the + will really help us maximize rides. Thank you for the info.


You still have to paid an unannounced price for the lighting lane for the 2 top tier rides. The 15 bucks only gives you the option to make a FP for a lower tier ride. So if you are at MK the 15 buck Genie + will let you book a FP for Dumbo but if you want to ride 7DMT it more money. How much we don’t know?


----------



## Lashed34

goofynut41 said:


> I Am so confused!!! This is getting too complicated for me... I am not a tect person and this is not fun anymore....



Basic Genie, completely free, helps you plan your park day.

Genie+ you pay $15 per person per day (WDW) and you can book times for "some" attractions. One attraction at a time, like FP.

LIGHTNING LANES (old FP queue line) you pay to ride at a set time for the most popular attractions. Prices will vary on different days/seasons but have not been announced.


----------



## luv2cheer92

JenSop said:


> Wow - I can't keep up with reading everything!  Lol!
> I did want to chime in with one more thing - I'm not averse to change.  Really, I'm not.  But to COMPLETELY change to a paid tiered system, when it was fully included before, with no transition is what irks me.  Also, there is NO benefit for on-site guests in this new system.  At least with FP+, onsite guests could book their rides before off-site guests.  There seems to be a huge move to NO on-site benefits.  Which I find baffling.


Well, there is a benefit to staying onsite. It may not be what it was before and it may not be something you like or take advantage of. But to say that there is no benefit at all is incorrect.


----------



## elgerber

Lashed34 said:


> You join a virtual queue like RotR, subject to it being avaiable, but you could also pay extra for a Lightning Lane - subject to one being available.


I wonder if it will allow people to do both, and ride twice?


----------



## Lashed34

elgerber said:


> I wonder if it will allow people to do both, and ride twice?


I would imagine if you get a BG you can also book a LL, maybe not until you've ridden once, but I'd imagine they'd let you.


----------



## BroadwayHermione5

HopperFan said:


> .
> 
> 
> I would watch the video Disney put out, I think it is way more informative to visually see it than just read their blog.  You can see that you can still book ADR, join waitlists (new with COVID), do mobile ordering etc.  I think it will be much easier than most think.
> 
> *
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 598206*


Thank you for sharing this. While I still am probably going to have to watch a ton of vlogs on this, it did answer a few of my questions and actually bought up points I did not think about.


----------



## tguz

Laura's Dad said:


> I wouldn't panic yet about the off-site vs. the on-site issue.  They just announced this and not all of the details are out yet.  There may be some benefits for on-site stays that haven't been announced yet.  If there is nothing that comes out, I would agree that staying on-site would no longer be much of  a benefit.  You may get 30 minutes early to a theme park depending on transportation (I waited 40 minutes for a bus to the MK one morning at PO-R so this would not help at all).  That's not much benefit for Disney hotel prices.


So far the only perk for onsite guests that I have seen is the first "ride reservation" can be booked at 7am while offsite guests can't book their first until they enter the park.


----------



## dunkindonut

This sums it up: It's a planning tool for guests that uses algorithms to tell them what and when they should do things based on what they like. As far as fast passes before, people were able to get 3 fast passes for free to schedule 60 day outs in advance...now you have to pay an additional $15 a day for one fast pass at a time that you only get to schedule the day of now, but then you have to pay even more money if you want a fast pass for the most popular rides


----------



## kbelle8995

ucf_knight said:


> If you used the refresh method for FP it was fantastic for AP’s. If you didn’t know about refresh I could see the frustration. FP will be greatly missed from our family of AP’s.


Tried it never worked for me


----------



## tguz

I am at least glad that Big Thunder will be part of the genie+, I like it a lot more than 7DMT.


----------



## JakeAZ

luv2cheer92 said:


> Well, there is a benefit to staying onsite. It may not be what it was before and it may not be something you like or take advantage of. But to say that there is no benefit at all is incorrect.


While you are technically correct, IMO none of the on-site "benefits", including the Deluxe hours, can justify staying on-site anymore.

Disney basically took away (or are in the process of taking away) the benefits people looked forward to by staying on-site and then jacked up the prices.

Then they announce a brand new program for paid rides and are giving the day guest the same (basically) access and pricing as the on-site.


----------



## Jenkinsfanatic

A couple of scenarios I'm curious how it will be handled.

1.)  Can someone (with either really fast fingers or multiple people in their party trying) be lucky enough to get both a spot in the virtual queue and pay the extra $$ for lightening lane?  Thus allowing people to ride 2 time?  I know for the non virtual queue rides there's no stopping waiting and buying but not sure what restrictions would be in place for a virtual queue.

2.)  Would you be alive to pull the same ride more then once with genie+?  Can I get a return time at 10 am for btmrr and then pull another available time at 1 pm?  I'm assuming so, but I wonder if disney would try to limit a return time to once per day per ride.

I'm going at the end of October and I don't see how if this is live by then this is anything but a giant cluster, but we will see.


----------



## BuckeyeBama

luv2cheer92 said:


> Well, there is a benefit to staying onsite. It may not be what it was before and it may not be something you like or take advantage of. But to say that there is no benefit at all is incorrect.


Being able to book your first Genie ride at 7am vs when you enter the park could have been huge, but not so much with the best rides not available via Genie


----------



## ucf_knight

Lashed34 said:


> Basic Genie, completely free, helps you plan your park day.
> 
> Genie+ you pay $15 per person per day (WDW) and you can book times for "some" attractions. One attraction at a time, like FP.
> 
> LIGHTNING LANES (old FP queue line) you pay to ride at a set time for the most popular attractions. Prices will vary on different days/seasons but have not been announced.


Not exactly like fast pass since you could have 3 FP’s booked then once you used up three it was one attraction at a time.


----------



## Opie100

This is still unclear to me. Do I have this right?

Option 1: Don't use Genie, wait in regular lines, which will be longer
Option 2: Use free Genie app, wait in regular lines, maybe the forecasts help a little; no advance planning
Option 3: Buy the Genie+ service, reserve one "Lightning Lane" at "Tier 2 rides" at a time upon arrival, if available; no advance planning
Option 4: Buy individual attraction "Lightning Lanes" for "Tier 1 rides," up to two per day (do we need Genie+ to do this as well?); no advance planning

I wonder what time we will have to arrive at the parks each day before all of the lightning lanes are gone?


----------



## cantsayNolaf

ucf_knight said:


> Not exactly like fast pass since you could have 3 FP’s booked then once you used up three it was one attraction at a time.



Is it confirmed that you can only book one attraction per "group" vs one attraction per person?


----------



## Nero the dog

We are from UK and most feedback iver here isnt great. It will kill the UK overseas market for families, unless we want to queue for hours. A lot of UK holidays are taken during busy periods in the US and families want to be able to do everything on their trip, for many its a once in a lifetime trip!! (I think Universal will benefit from the disney negativity now). They are ruining the Magic that Walt created for money and nothing more


----------



## cjlong88

eleven24 said:


> The Magic Bands will still work, and are still being sold.  They're just no longer a complimentary item when booking at a Disney resort.  Now they sell it as "Being a Disney resort guest you have the privilege of buying exclusive magic bands that are not available in the park".
> 
> Not that I need them, because we have a collection.  It's just a fun way to look back on our trips based on the magic bands we have collected and written the dates on the insides.


We aren’t souvenir people…but I love getting a new magicband for each visit. I can wear one that’s themed to the park I’m visiting and rotate them to match my what I’m wearing.

Also the fact that it’s a usable item that can charge things to my room, serve as my park ticket, or  open my hotel door makes the price worth it to me.


----------



## Disneyliscious

To all the people mentioning how its no longer worth it to stay on site anymore......that's EXACTLY what Disney wants you to think. Then, in a year or so, they'll jack up hotel prices and offer you an early Genie+ booking window, a package Genie+ deal, or something of the sort to make you think its a GLORIOUS DEAL to be staying on site again. This is all part of their marketing strategy. They get people use to "nothing" so that when they offer something in the future people think "OMG ITS FREE AND SO WORTH IT I LOVE YOU DISNEY!!!!!"


----------



## itf

Nero the dog said:


> We are from UK and most feedback iver here isnt great. It will kill the UK overseas market for families, unless we want to queue for hours. A lot of UK holidays are taken during busy periods in the US and families want to be able to do everything on their trip, for many its a once in a lifetime trip!! (I think Universal will benefit from the disney negativity now). They are ruining the Magic that Walt created for money and nothing more



This is absolutely how I feel - I've got a 14 day once in a long time if not once in a lifetime booked for the family next year and I'm already looking at how much I'd lose if I cancel, but will wait and see how things shake out once it's introduced. We've got 10 park days already reserved in the MDE app = 15x10x3, another £300 on top of the over £1000 of park tickets we've already paid for to get Genie+ and then on top of that paying for individual rides. With the strong dollar too it's just going to be excruciatingly expensive.


----------



## ctl

Opie100 said:


> This is still unclear to me. Do I have this right?
> 
> Option 1: Don't use Genie, wait in regular lines, which will be longer
> Option 2: Use free Genie app, wait in regular lines, maybe the forecasts help a little; no advance planning
> Option 3: Buy the Genie+ service, reserve one "Lightning Lane" at "Tier 2 rides" at a time upon arrival, if available; no advance planning
> Option 4: Buy individual attraction "Lightning Lanes" for "Tier 1 rides," up to two per day (do we need Genie+ to do this as well?); no advance planning
> 
> I wonder what time we will have to arrive at the parks each day before all of the lightning lanes are gone?


Super early. Do you remember what the lines were like for Rise of the Resistance when you had to line up outside the park and hope to hit the app when you got inside at opening to get a boarding pass?  People were getting in line at 4.00am. I know because I was staying on Disney property at the time and had to get up with my kids several days in a row to get to ride 1 time.  Yes, it was before they changed the system, but it was horrible.


----------



## ctl

Disneyliscious said:


> To all the people mentioning how its no longer worth it to stay on site anymore......that's EXACTLY what Disney wants you to think. Then, in a year or so, they'll jack up hotel prices and offer you an early Genie+ booking window, a package Genie+ deal, or something of the sort to make you think its a GLORIOUS DEAL to be staying on site again. This is all part of their marketing strategy. They get people use to "nothing" so that when they offer something in the future people think "OMG ITS FREE AND SO WORTH IT I LOVE YOU DISNEY!!!!!"


Nope. The straw has broken the camels back.


----------



## TangledHairDon'tCare

Lashed34 said:


> Basic Genie, completely free, helps you plan your park day.
> 
> Genie+ you pay $15 per person per day (WDW) and you can book times for "some" attractions. One attraction at a time, like FP.
> 
> LIGHTNING LANES (old FP queue line) you pay to ride at a set time for the most popular attractions. Prices will vary on different days/seasons but have not been announced.


You use the lightning lane for your genie+ picks too.


----------



## Cynt

SMH!  OK Disney now you want me to pay for fast pass that has less benefits than the free fast pass and it doesn't include the best rides?!?! Momma didn't raise no fool.  We are more than able to pay for the new genie+ and pay to ride the top tier rides. But WHY??? I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired of Disney cutting all the free perks and then charging a premium for them.

We'll probably move our Spring Break 2022 WDW vacation to the end of May 2022 when crowds are lighter and we won't need genie+.  That will probably be our last WDW vacation for a while.  If it wasn't for my 6 year old niece that hasn't been to WDW we would cancel altogether and take them on a cruise. But turning 5 and going to Disney is a rite of passage in our family.  She's the baby cousin and her cousins have her all hyped to go WDW. Man how I wish we would have taken her in November 2019 before all this craziness happened. Our older kids prefer Universal Studios and cruising to WDW anyways.  So no love lost for them.  We were going to do 5 WDW park days but now we'll probably just do 3 - MK, HS and AK. We'll spend the rest of the week at Universal and we'll probably drive to Tampa and go to Busch Gardens too. 

This also seals the deal that we will stay offsite. We loved Magical express for the 9 of us and living in the bubble. Now no ME and no free FP. Like others have said we really miss the Disney of old. It chaps my hide that the kids can't experience what we did on our Disney trips in the early 2000's. Man those were the good old days. Fast pass!?!? What's that? The lines were 15-25 minutes tops! OMG I miss those days. 

I still say that the new CEO was not a Disney World kid or adult.  He's heartless when it comes to Disney Magic and Pixie Dust. The little extras DO MATTER to die hard Disney fans. That's the other thing I'm wondering. Maybe they are trying to phase out the die hard Disney fans. Maybe they want Disney to be a one a done trip of a lifetime for new families. Spend your $20K and then they're on to the next family. I can easily see this turning into their new model.  These new parents will do anything to take their kids to Disney and pay whatever to save time.


----------



## EPCOT-O.G.

For all the people who've been complaining about the current state of the parks and declaring they're not coming back until there's some version of a FP, well, as we learn from the myths involving the Genie - careful what you wish for!


----------



## cjlong88

Opie100 said:


> This is still unclear to me. Do I have this right?
> 
> Option 1: Don't use Genie, wait in regular lines, which will be longer
> Option 2: Use free Genie app, wait in regular lines, maybe the forecasts help a little; no advance planning
> Option 3: Buy the Genie+ service, reserve one "Lightning Lane" at "Tier 2 rides" at a time upon arrival, if available; no advance planning
> Option 4: Buy individual attraction "Lightning Lanes" for "Tier 1 rides," up to two per day (do we need Genie+ to do this as well?); no advance planning
> 
> I wonder what time we will have to arrive at the parks each day before all of the lightning lanes are gone?


This seems correct. I think we everyone is operating under the assumption that all paid LL+ slots will be released right at 7am. But we really don’t know that. It could be that they are released sporadically throughout the day, similar to how the VQ slots for Hagrid’s works.

If they are made available throughout the day, being onsite might be an advantage because you would (potentially) have an additional chance at snagging that one ride you really want.

Interested to receive more information so we can figure out how to optimize Genie+ without needing to use the paid LL+ option every time. Once we see it in action, every blogger will have articles telling us how to maximize it.


----------



## ctl

itf said:


> This is absolutely how I feel - I've got a 14 day once in a long time if not once in a lifetime booked for the family next year and I'm already looking at how much I'd lose if I cancel, but will wait and see how things shake out once it's introduced. We've got 10 park days already reserved in the MDE app = 15x10x3, another £300 on top of the over £1000 of park tickets we've already paid for to get Genie+ and then on top of that paying for individual rides. With the strong dollar too it's just going to be excruciatingly expensive.


 Disney is betting that overseas guests will pay regardless. As you say its a once in a lifetime trip for many of you.  Unfortunately, for many now, it will be a never in a lifetime trip.


----------



## Opie100

ctl said:


> Super early. Do you remember what the lines were like for Rise of the Resistance when you had to line up outside the park and hope to hit the app when you got inside at opening to get a boarding pass?  People were getting in line at 4.00am. I know because I was staying on Disney property at the time and had to get up with my kids several days in a row to get to ride 1 time.  Yes, it was before they changed the system, but it was horrible.


I'm surprised Disney is deploying policies that eliminate the ability to plan. Do they really want to go back to managing crowds at the entrance every morning? Doesn't that experience result in poor customer feedback? How about guests that arrive at 10am and there are no LL admissions left?


----------



## Bianca and Bernard

Jenkinsfanatic said:


> A couple of scenarios I'm curious how it will be handled.
> 
> 1.)  Can someone (with either really fast fingers or multiple people in their party trying) be lucky enough to get both a spot in the virtual queue and pay the extra $$ for lightening lane?  Thus allowing people to ride 2 time?  I know for the non virtual queue rides there's no stopping waiting and buying but not sure what restrictions would be in place for a virtual queue.       The rides that are for G+ will not be the same as the rides for AlaCarte; the virtual queue rides may not be on either level.  There hasn't been any confirmation on this either way.
> 
> 2.)  Would you be alive to pull the same ride more then once with genie+?  Can I get a return time at 10 am for btmrr and then pull another available time at 1 pm?  I'm assuming so, but I wonder if disney would try to limit a return time to once per day per ride.  I would hope you would  have to be alive to pull rides..    We don't know if they are allowing multiples yet.  this information coming out is all new, and is not as informative as we would like.
> 
> I'm going at the end of October and I don't see how if this is live by then this is anything but a giant cluster, but we will see.





Opie100 said:


> This is still unclear to me. Do I have this right?   pretty much
> 
> Option 1: Don't use Genie, wait in regular lines, which will be longer
> Option 2: Use free Genie app, wait in regular lines, maybe the forecasts help a little; no advance planning
> Option 3: Buy the Genie+ service, reserve one "Lightning Lane" at "Tier 2 rides" at a time upon arrival, if available; no advance planning
> Option 4: Buy individual attraction "Lightning Lanes" for "Tier 1 rides," up to two per day (do we need Genie+ to do this as well?); no advance planning    They have said that G+ is NOT required for this, and vice versa.
> 
> I wonder what time we will have to arrive at the parks each day before all of the lightning lanes are gone?   My guess is they will space them out, and limit how many per hour, with the option to add more as the day progresses.   So if they see that  7DMT has a 120 minute line, but the LL is running at 15, they might open some more spots to even out the lines.  But this is conjecture for now.


----------



## Kbrb

ctl said:


> Disney is betting that overseas guests will pay regardless. As you say its a once in a lifetime trip for many of you.  Unfortunately, for many now, it will be a never in a lifetime trip.



I may well pay, but they wont be getting me on site for 14 nights anymore. I wont be buying any merch and will be eating off site to. Making me pay for this will involve cost cutting, first and most expensive is staying in Disney. If they are betting that international guests will pay regardless id take a look over on the DIBB board


----------



## cjlong88

Opie100 said:


> I'm surprised Disney is deploying policies that eliminate the ability to plan. Do they really want to go back to managing crowds at the entrance every morning? Doesn't that experience result in poor customer feedback? How about guests that arrive at 10am and there are no LL admissions left?


It could also be that Disney was receiving consistent complaints that too much advanced planning was required to enjoy their vacation, especially from first time visitors. Us vets know that planning in advance gives us the experience we want. I think the super planners, however, are the minority of guests. At least that’s how I feel every time I walk into WDW.


----------



## Grasshopper2016

Lashed34 said:


> If they are serious about crowd control then why have they built more and more hotels on site?





Lashed34 said:


> Build a 5th gate, add more shows and experiences to spread people out.





ofcabbagesandkings said:


> If Disney was serious about controlling crowds they would build new rides and stop cutting entertainment.


Yes.  Until they do this, Genie seems like just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.  But now the good chairs cost more.


----------



## TangledHairDon'tCare

cjlong88 said:


> It could also be that Disney was receiving consistent complaints that too much advanced planning was required to enjoy their vacation, especially from first time visitors. Us vets know that planning in advance gives us the experience we want. I think the super planners, however, are the minority of guests. At least that’s how I feel every time I walk into WDW.


I think that’s exactly what they were hearing before.  Those of us on boards like this tend to forget we’re the minority of visitors.  I talk to people every trip that didn’t know about FP or dining reservations.  Some friends of ours went on their first trip in 2018 and didn’t use FP at all because they didn’t know it was free.


----------



## igrsod

I can see us paying the $15 per person per day for smaller trips, not for longer ones, and only for certain parks.  BUT, I can also see us spending less in the parks to make up the difference.  One less sit down meal, no big souvenir (we have too much already)... it's all about budget and what you choose to spend the money on.  My budget is my budget.... if riding rides will cost me more, then we don't buy a popcorn bucket, or eat 2 sit down meals a day etc.


----------



## Laura's Dad

ctl said:


> Super early. Do you remember what the lines were like for Rise of the Resistance when you had to line up outside the park and hope to hit the app when you got inside at opening to get a boarding pass?  People were getting in line at 4.00am. I know because I was staying on Disney property at the time and had to get up with my kids several days in a row to get to ride 1 time.  Yes, it was before they changed the system, but it was horrible.


We were in that first wave as well.  It was absolutely dangerous with the lines at the turnstiles.  They had to do something because the pushing/shoving to get in was absolutely nuts.  At least the way that they are doing it now is fair.  I have been 4 days to DHS since that first trip and got boarding passes 3 times.


----------



## SCDVC2000

kylenne said:


> Idk, I wonder if those situations will be balanced out by how many couples are like us, where one person is the crazy type A planner type and the other one is cool with whatever, the “just tell me when to show up” type. My gf is so laid back I could tell her we gotta get up 4am and do the ice bucket challenge to get into a park and she’d be fine as long as she got her dole whip on time



its settled. Your next trip to Disney she’s doing the ice bucket challenge at 4am


----------



## Ursula J

Comments on the Parks Blog might now be closed?  Mine never was posted, but it was mostly about how sad I am to close this chapter in our lives as a family, not because we outgrew WDW but because WDW doesn't want people like us.


----------



## mi*vida*loca

I can see a lot of people purchasing G+ but I can also see a lot of people not bothering with it. Heck I knew people who never even used FP+ and it was free. I’ve known people who purchased the DDP and didn’t even make ADRs so never used their credits. It’ll be interesting to see how this goes.


----------



## lynch34

I love Disney World.  My wife loves Disney World.  My kids love and have grown up around Disney World.

With that said - at a certain point you realize that what we have loved is NOT what it is now and that's ok for everyone but folks shouldn't pretend that it is the same as it most definitely is not.

When I first went to Disney, I found a place that focused on customer service and allowed exceptional customer service to drive revenue.  Now it is very much a shell of it's former self in that they still have great customer service but that is not the goal.  Revenue is the goal.  Again - that's fine but let's not pretend it is not that way because it is.  The first couple of trips I almost felt like I wanted to give them MORE money because it felt like they only cared about me and my family and not the money.  

This is a shameful play to take more money.  Disney World is quickly becoming a place for the rich and that's a shame.  I am in a thankful place where I can afford it (if I wanted to) but in all honesty - I feel like at these current prices - I'd be better off taking my family on new experiences for a similar price.

I said it earlier in the thread but people should price out Disney World and then price out other options (especially for out of state folks).  You will be stunned what you can do for the cost of a week at WDW now and let's face it - it's not worth it.  They have repeatedly taken things AWAY and raised prices.  Its insane.  I was actually planning a Disney trip in September and was appalled at the prices (and this is before the 50th and these changes).  I priced out 4 nights and 4 days at Universal for my family of 5 and it was $1900.  That was for a 2 room family suite.  Disney isn't CLOSE from a competitive pricepoint. The customer service is also no longer a differentiation.  I'm glad my kids are 14, 12 and 9 and have been so much because they were able to grow up there but we won't be going if this stuff continues.  It's total nonsense.  Get up at 7 am and pray you get on a ride?  Pay for Space Mountain?  You can't even tell your kid - we are doing Rise of the Resistance tomorrow!  You have no clue if your 4 seconds of phone clicking will get you a boarding pass.  Message?  Shame - you missed out but you can go on Star Tours for the 1,000th time for only $8/person.


----------



## Lashed34

Kbrb said:


> I may well pay, but they wont be getting me on site for 14 nights anymore. I wont be buying any merch and will be eating off site to. Making me pay for this will involve cost cutting, first and most expensive is staying in Disney. If they are betting that international guests will pay regardless id take a look over on the DIBB board


Stay at a deluxe at Universal, relish the unlimited express pass and drive/uber to Disney, the best of both worlds.


----------



## TheDailyMoo

lynch34 said:


> I love Disney World.  My wife loves Disney World.  My kids love and have grown up around Disney World.
> 
> With that said - at a certain point you realize that what we have loved is NOT what it is now and that's ok for everyone but folks shouldn't pretend that it is the same as it most definitely is not.
> 
> When I first went to Disney, I found a place that focused on customer service and allowed exceptional customer service to drive revenue.  Now it is very much a shell of it's former self in that they still have great customer service but that is not the goal.  Revenue is the goal.  Again - that's fine but let's not pretend it is not that way because it is.  The first couple of trips I almost felt like I wanted to give them MORE money because it felt like they only cared about me and my family and not the money.
> 
> This is a shameful play to take more money.  Disney World is quickly becoming a place for the rich and that's a shame.  I am in a thankful place where I can afford it (if I wanted to) but in all honesty - I feel like at these current prices - I'd be better off taking my family on new experiences for a similar price.
> 
> I said it earlier in the thread but people should price out Disney World and then price out other options (especially for out of state folks).  You will be stunned what you can do for the cost of a week at WDW now and let's face it - it's not worth it.  They have repeatedly taken things AWAY and raised prices.  Its insane.  I was actually planning a Disney trip in September and was appalled at the prices (and this is before the 50th and these changes).  I priced out 4 nights and 4 days at Universal for my family of 5 and it was $1900.  That was for a 2 room family suite.  Disney isn't CLOSE from a competitive pricepoint. The customer service is also no longer a differentiation.  I'm glad my kids are 14, 12 and 9 and have been so much because they were able to grow up there but we won't be going if this stuff continues.  It's total nonsense.  Get up at 7 am and pray you get on a ride?  Pay for Space Mountain?  You can't even tell your kid - we are doing Rise of the Resistance tomorrow!  You have no clue if your 4 seconds of phone clicking will get you a boarding pass.  Message?  Shame - you missed out but you can go on Star Tours for the 1,000th time for only $8/person.



This is all because of the current regime...and by current I mean the Iger regime.  All they care about is their DTC segment which is mainly comprised of Dis+.  The parks are just a means to an end...the parks are funding the growth of Dis+.  That's literally all they care about.


----------



## ckb_nc

Long take - 

First I explained this to my wife last night and she is a not a fan at all.

We used Maxpass from a 2 day visit to DL in Jan 2022. It was extremely helpful to be able to book a FP from across another park. But all it did was help us avoid long walks to get a physical FP. So it's not like we were locked out of FP at all.  It was a benefit not an absolute. 

We are going at WDW from FP+ which let us plan entire days out. We liked having some days start later mid-trip to let us slow down.  To basically derby style first in wins.  But not in the park like old school FP. I have to be up at 7 to get a FP. And as an offsite or day guest, you show up say at 10am are there going to be any FP or whatever they will be called left? I know Disney use to hold FP+ in reserve for big rides in the past, but will that be true in the future? 

The real kick in nuts will be the surge pricing for top tiers. RoTR is to me the worse. Complain all day about virtual queues but it was at least somewhat fair. Now - hey don't want to wait or try? Pay an extra essentially one day ticket to ride one ride?  We know Tron will be on it - FOP, RoTR, Slinky (??) - all of sudden to have the same experience I enjoyed even last December could cost me either an extra $1000 or more, extra wait times through the roof, or make rope drop an essential. 

We are a Disney family but this is very first time I am scratching my head on how this does not smack of both a pure money grab AND elitism. Put this together with the absolute over the top prices for the new Christmas parties and I might be thinking hard on selling my DVC points.


----------



## igrsod

I'm curious what the solution will be when rides break down that you have purchased LL passes for?  It's sad when you had a free FP, but if I've paid a premium for it at 7am on my vacation....???


----------



## 4Hawks

I used to laugh at people who say they won't visit Disney anymore because of some new rule/system. But now I'm one of them. After booking our trip for the 50th (our most expensive thus far), I told my kids this would likely be our last trip, at least for a while. Now I feel even more certain. 

We can rent a small apartment somewhere in Europe for a full month, for far less than we spend for 1 week at a Disney resort. We'd probably spend less in food as well, and eat way better. Plus we'd get to actually experience a different culture and learn a new language. 

So yeah, Disney is not worth it for us anymore. I'm just thankful that we got to enjoy several trips before things got this expensive.


----------



## luv2cheer92

BuckeyeBama said:


> Being able to book your first Genie ride at 7am vs when you enter the park could have been huge, but not so much with the best rides not available via Genie


Onsite guests get to book their additional top tier LL ride at 7. Everyone gets to book the first genie ride at 7.


----------



## DLgal

If this works like Maxpass, they will release all available Lightning Lane windows at once, and they will get later and later in the day as the park fills up and people book them. 

What will be interesting to see is how will they manage this if you show up at 11am and the "next available" LL time is 8pm? Will you then not be able to book any others? Will they use the 2 hour window and let you book more at 1pm? 

The language seems to imply that you can only hold one LL reservation at a time, so perhaps this means they will release LL availability sporadically, every hour or so and it will be a matter of luck whether you get the ride you want when you try or not. I can't see that working well when people are paying, but the other way seems problematic also.


----------



## ffugitive

To look on the possible bright side here... Genie+ is a new cost but a good thing.  Yes, it sucks to have to pay more, but I'm telling you many people won't pay the added expense of "being able to make ride reservations." Usage WILL be less than Fastpass usage, so for a modest added expense, we get improved Fastpass.  As for individual attraction selections, Genie+ will not be available, so the standby queues will only compete with those who pay the premiums.  Either the premiums wont be bad in which case we will pay (hah!) or they will be absurd and prohibitive in which case a very small minority of guests will actually pay, leaving really just Standby queues like there is right now, which is not terrible really. My 2 cents.


----------



## luv2cheer92

JakeAZ said:


> While you are technically correct, IMO none of the on-site "benefits", including the Deluxe hours, can justify staying on-site anymore.
> 
> Disney basically took away (or are in the process of taking away) the benefits people looked forward to by staying on-site and then jacked up the prices.
> 
> Then they announce a brand new program for paid rides and are giving the day guest the same (basically) access and pricing as the on-site.


To each their own. Nothing has put the thought of pushing me offsite yet, and this sure won't either. Still enough reason for me. With the sole exception of S/D, which is half and half IMO anyway.


----------



## igrsod

ckb_nc said:


> Long take -
> 
> First I explained this to my wife last night and she is a not a fan at all.
> 
> We used Maxpass from a 2 day visit to DL in Jan 2022. It was extremely helpful to be able to book a FP from across another park. But all it did was help us avoid long walks to get a physical FP. So it's not like we were locked out of FP at all.  It was a benefit not an absolute.
> 
> We are going at WDW from FP+ which let us plan entire days out. We liked having some days start later mid-trip to let us slow down.  To basically derby style first in wins.  But not in the park like old school FP. I have to be up at 7 to get a FP. And as an offsite or day guest, you show up say at 10am are there going to be any FP or whatever they will be called left? I know Disney use to hold FP+ in reserve for big rides in the past, but will that be true in the future?
> 
> The real kick in nuts will be the surge pricing for top tiers. RoTR is to me the worse. Complain all day about virtual queues but it was at least somewhat fair. Now - hey don't want to wait or try? Pay an extra essentially one day ticket to ride one ride?  We know Tron will be on it - FOP, RoTR, Slinky (??) - all of sudden to have the same experience I enjoyed even last December could cost me either an extra $1000 or more, extra wait times through the roof, or make rope drop an essential.
> 
> We are a Disney family but this is very first time I am scratching my head on how this does not smack of both a pure money grab AND elitism. Put this together with the absolute over the top prices for the new Christmas parties and I might be thinking hard on selling my DVC points.


We have been discussing all of this in our DVC loving family too. 
We are not ready to sell yet, but we do have a breaking point.  We may not use the points at Disney as often now... maybe we stay at HH or Aulani. 
We reached our breaking point with the Christmas AH event.  We had bought tickets for the Halloween one, thinking it's expensive but still has value.  Then the Christmas ticket prices came out and we all agreed over $200 per person was too much.  So we are not going, not even tempted or sad about it.
If they keep raising prices without increasing the value, more people will reach a breaking point.  Disney has always been expensive, but had value.  That is diminishing quickly.


----------



## Duck143

Is anyone planning on emailing Disney to voice their unhappiness?  I have read all 41 pages up to now and read hundreds of different complaints and I am wondering if these are going to be voiced to Disney?  If so, where are you planning on sending your opinions?  If everyone who has something to say actually says it to Disney, maybe it will make a difference? Just maybe? 

I agree with so many things that have been written here since the announcement yesterday. I don't want to get up before 7am EVERY day on my vacation just to get all stressed out staring at my phone waiting for my clock to tick to 7:00:00 am just so my family can get up and have the 'best trip ever!" I am a huge planner and have rolled with the punches to plan every detail for our many trips to Disney. I enjoy the planning and never minded getting up and onto a computer to get all the (180, 90, 60, 30 days) ADR's and FP+ booked. I just really don't want to have to do this every single morning during our trip. This past May, I was so stressed our first park day trying to get a BG for my family to ride RotR that I was shaking. I managed to get the BG and everyone loved it, but I don't need this pressure every day. I don't mind if this is the only way to get on the newest attractions, but not for many and I haven't even gotten into the new additional cost for this stress.


----------



## ShirikiUtundu

mi*vida*loca said:


> I can see a lot of people purchasing G+ but I can also see a lot of people not bothering with it.



My concern is will enough people buy G+ to shut down standby lines to further entries at some point? Since LL are limited and FP would be gone for the day for certain rides, it seems like this might affect standby lines in a different way than FP. Admittedly I don't really understand enough of the analytics about how any of it worked to know if this is even a valid concern. But it seems a little bit like SW early bird check in where when flying from certain cities you almost _have _to purchase it now.


----------



## ShirikiUtundu

Duck143 said:


> Is anyone planning on emailing Disney to voice their unhappiness?  I have read all 41 pages up to now and read hundreds of different complaints and I am wondering if these are going to be voiced to Disney?  If so, where are you planning on sending your opinions?  If everyone who has something to say actually says it to Disney, maybe it will make a difference? Just maybe?



Not sure that it matters honestly. They are getting lambasted on social media platforms but they don't care what people *say*. They only care what people *do *(such as open or not open their wallets).


----------



## luv2cheer92

4Hawks said:


> I used to laugh at people who say they won't visit Disney anymore because of some new rule/system. But now I'm one of them. After booking our trip for the 50th (our most expensive thus far), I told my kids this would likely be our last trip, at least for a while. Now I feel even more certain.
> 
> We can rent a small apartment somewhere in Europe for a full month, for far less than we spend for 1 week at a Disney resort. We'd probably spend less in food as well, and eat way better. Plus we'd get to actually experience a different culture and learn a new language.
> 
> So yeah, Disney is not worth it for us anymore. I'm just thankful that we got to enjoy several trips before things got this expensive.


I also think it comes down to your style of trip and family makeup. My trips are usually around the $1500-1800 ballpark, it can be hard to go to Europe for a week with that. My trip for the 50th is closer to $2000 right now, but it is also a few days longer than most of my trips usually are, so the daily average is pretty similar. The cost hasn't gone up much, if at all, for me in the last 2-3ish years, and I'm getting more each trip (for the most part) with new rides, attractions, shows, fireworks, etc.

But as I've said before, WDW is far from the only place I vacation. I usually go to Europe or somewhere abroad every year, a few domestic trips (usually to national parks), a cruise, and a few trips to WDW and usually one trip a year to UOR. So, I still get the variety of experiences and can compare value pretty well.


----------



## Grumpy by Birth

ChipnDaleRule said:


> Does Chapek not realise that consumers are as important as shareholders?





JakeAZ said:


> One is there to serve the other...I'll let you figure out the order


----------



## ItsOnlyMoney

JakeAZ said:


> So photo pass is included, with Genie+, at DLR but at WDW, it's still extra?


The Dis website says....   augmented reality lenses for those visiting Walt Disney World Resort and unlimited Disney PhotoPass downloads from your day if you are visiting Disneyland Resort


----------



## Grasshopper2016

I strongly suspect that what they announced yesterday will be tinkered with quite a bit over the next year.  In part, they didn't want to make things any more complicated at roll out than they already are.  And in part they will make adjustments based on how things end up operating. 

I would expect to see more benefits for (at least some) onsite guests, and perhaps APs, coming eventually.  Maybe even soon.  Perhaps APs will get a few days per year of Genie+ included with the pass.  Perhaps Club Level or Deluxe guests will get Genie+ included, or will get the opportunity to purchase more than two tier one LL rides.  Etc.


----------



## 4Hawks

luv2cheer92 said:


> I also think it comes down to your style of trip and family makeup. My trips are usually around the $1500-1800 ballpark, it can be hard to go to Europe for a week with that. My trip for the 50th is closer to $2000 right now, but it is also a few days longer than most of my trips usually are, so the daily average is pretty similar. The cost hasn't gone up much, if at all, for me in the last 2-3ish years, and I'm getting more each trip (for the most part) with new rides, attractions, shows, fireworks, etc.
> 
> But as I've said before, WDW is far from the only place I vacation. I usually go to Europe or somewhere abroad every year, a few domestic trips (usually to national parks), a cruise, and a few trips to WDW and usually one trip a year to UOR. So, I still get the variety of experiences and can compare value pretty well.



True, our preferences are on the expensive side. We could cut down a lot and make the trip less expensive, but it would still be of less value (pay the same we used to pay, but for less). We rent DVC points and buy discounted tickets through DH's employer, and had previously spent $3-4K for a 1 week trip. But this upcoming trip will be closer to $6k, with similar accommodations and tickets.

I looked at an apartment in Genoa for the whole month of August and found some in the $1500-$1800 range. If we buy tickets with miles (which we did for WDW), that would leave about $4k for other expenses. It's a no brainer for us.


----------



## JakeAZ

luv2cheer92 said:


> To each their own. Nothing has put the thought of pushing me offsite yet, and this sure won't either. Still enough reason for me. With the sole exception of S/D, which is half and half IMO anyway.


No judgement, but I'm legitimately curious.  What would be your breaking point for on-site?  Another 20% increase next year?  Another one after that?  Removal of the early / PM hours?  I'm trying to come up with other things they can take away, but none are coming to me.

Or, is it you, like many many others, just prefer the bubble and if you can afford it, you'll pay it?

I get the bubble preference.  I really do.

But for me, the bubble was always just an ancillary thing to the tangible benefits.

I'm interested in hearing from the other side of my point of view.


----------



## Dashzap

Not sure how I feel about the disney resort guest perk of booking that same day Lightning Lane at 7am whereas those staying offsite book when the park opens. Advance picking is a perk, but not all of us are morning people....


----------



## ckb_nc

luv2cheer92 said:


> I also think it comes down to your style of trip and family makeup. My trips are usually around the $1500-1800 ballpark, it can be hard to go to Europe for a week with that. My trip for the 50th is closer to $2000 right now, but it is also a few days longer than most of my trips usually are, so the daily average is pretty similar. The cost hasn't gone up much, if at all, for me in the last 2-3ish years, and I'm getting more each trip (for the most part) with new rides, attractions, shows, fireworks, etc.
> 
> But as I've said before, WDW is far from the only place I vacation. I usually go to Europe or somewhere abroad every year, a few domestic trips (usually to national parks), a cruise, and a few trips to WDW and usually one trip a year to UOR. So, I still get the variety of experiences and can compare value pretty well.



My trip in December was 5 days for the 2 of us under 1000 BUT we are DVC members, I had an AP, we got partial credit for her unused days, we used up all of our Disney dollars from our Chase Visa card, got stupid cheap flights on Frontier (that we are ok for us), etc.  Seriously I think my out of pocket biggest expense was our rental car (my DD uses a wheel chair at Disney - a rental car is really a important item).

I know how to do Disney on the cheaper side. 

 Add daily Genie+ plus would add 150 bucks to get what I experienced pre-COVID.


----------



## Opie100

cjlong88 said:


> It could also be that Disney was receiving consistent complaints that too much advanced planning was required to enjoy their vacation, especially from first time visitors. Us vets know that planning in advance gives us the experience we want. I think the super planners, however, are the minority of guests. At least that’s how I feel every time I walk into WDW.


I don't have a problem with seeking to accommodate guests that do not plan their trip in advance, but there's a tradeoff when eliminating the ability to plan a visit. Now all guests have to arrive at 6am to hope to avoid 3-4 hour regular lines for top attractions. When guests arrive at 10am and can not experience advertised attractions, that generates poor customer feedback which could have been avoided by allowing booking attractions in advance. It's not cheap for Disney to manage pre-arrival crowd volumes either. One would think there could be a workable program that accommodates both.


----------



## luv2cheer92

JakeAZ said:


> No judgement, but I'm legitimately curious.  What would be your breaking point for on-site?  Another 20% increase next year?  Another one after that?  Removal of the early / PM hours?  I'm trying to come up with other things they can take away, but none are coming to me.
> 
> Or, is it you, like many many others, just prefer the bubble and if you can afford it, you'll pay it?
> 
> I get the bubble preference.  I really do.
> 
> But for me, the bubble was always just an ancillary thing to the tangible benefits.
> 
> I'm interested in hearing from the other side of my point of view.


The biggest perk for me has always been transportation and proximity. Being in the bubble itself is also nice. Price increases have been fairly negligible for the most part over the last few years. I expected it to be high for the 50th, so I'll ignore that. But the trip I booked for next Feb, the hotel is the same price I paid in 2018 for the same room. Different times of year (that was early Nov), but both slower times.


----------



## mi*vida*loca

Grasshopper2016 said:


> I strongly suspect that what they announced yesterday will be tinkered with quite a bit over the next year.  In part, they didn't want to make things any more complicated at roll out than they already are.  And in part they will make adjustments based on how things end up operating.
> 
> I would expect to see more benefits for (at least some) onsite guests, and perhaps APs, coming eventually.  Maybe even soon.  Perhaps APs will get a few days per year of Genie+ included with the pass.  Perhaps Club Level or Deluxe guests will get Genie+ included, or will get the opportunity to purchase more than two tier one LL rides.  Etc.



Or they’re trying to feel this out with this mini announcement and when they unveil it there will be some benefits. Maybe a free one for on-site guests, etc.


----------



## sponica

JakeAZ said:


> No judgement, but I'm legitimately curious.  What would be your breaking point for on-site?  Another 20% increase next year?  Another one after that?  Removal of the early / PM hours?  I'm trying to come up with other things they can take away, but none are coming to me.
> 
> Or, is it you, like many many others, just prefer the bubble and if you can afford it, you'll pay it?
> 
> I get the bubble preference.  I really do.
> 
> But for me, the bubble was always just an ancillary thing to the tangible benefits.
> 
> I'm interested in hearing from the other side of my point of view.



My kids need to be out of car seats for me to stay outside of the bubble.


----------



## mi*vida*loca

I’m also one of those that doesn’t see that great of a benefit for G+ at Epcot, AK and maybe even DHS.  For those parks you may be better off just not getting G+ and paying for the two additional add ons. Hitting RD for the rest of the rides and doing some at the end of the night.


----------



## Grumpy by Birth

RoseGold said:


> Genie as a character was helpful and you ordered him around.
> 
> This is a nightmare bossy Genie that makes you get up at 7AM and then barks at you it’s time to buy a Mickey bar and get $3 off to only pay $24.95 to ride slinky dog.  Life is your restaraunt, and im your revenue optimizer.


This is not the Genie you're looking for.


----------



## diskids2

An instagram I follow - Michaeldoesdisney - reported that onsite guests would have earlier access to Lightening Lane.  Not sure how true this is or isn't.


----------



## woodleygrrl

Grasshopper2016 said:


> I strongly suspect that what they announced yesterday will be tinkered with quite a bit over the next year.  In part, they didn't want to make things any more complicated at roll out than they already are.  And in part they will make adjustments based on how things end up operating.
> 
> I would expect to see more benefits for (at least some) onsite guests, and perhaps APs, coming eventually.  Maybe even soon.  Perhaps APs will get a few days per year of Genie+ included with the pass.  Perhaps Club Level or Deluxe guests will get Genie+ included, or will get the opportunity to purchase more than two tier one LL rides.  Etc.


Dude:  I have an advanced degree, I have been going to Disney since I was a baby, and I am a DVC owner.  We have been to the parks about 100 times over my life and I STILL don't understand how to get a ROTR fastpass or virtual line spot or whatever...

I can't be in charge of yet another thing on a vacation that is an escape from my very stressful and demanding job.  I know we are still waiting for the details but I can't.....

All my points for the coming year are being used at Vero Beach and HHI.


----------



## mi*vida*loca

diskids2 said:


> An instagram I follow - Michaeldoesdisney - reported that onsite guests would have earlier access to Lightening Lane.  Not sure how true this is or isn't.



For the additional add on rides you will. But for G+ that you pay $15 a person you won’t.


----------



## lukemorenus

Now that the dust has settled... I actually kinda like the new system (at least the idea of it - we'll see in practice)

For us, with the way we tour the parks these days - with very few headliners anyway-  it seems better than the ubiquitous FP+ system... but not as good as the old paper passes... oh well, change is inevitable


----------



## Miffy

If Disney didn't want to make things complicated, they certainly failed there. I have so many questions about how G+ will work, a thousand what-ifs.

For example:

If I park-hop, will I get another set of 2 tier-1 attractions that I'll have the "privilege" of paying for? Or did I use up my 2 for the day at park #1?

If I park-hop, do I have to pay for G+ all over again for the new park? And what if I go back to park #1 in the evening? Ack!

Will there be any way to select a preferred time? I mean, if I get to the park at RD and by the time I get off ride #1, my desired #2 ride isn't available until 8 p.m. and I have no intention of staying in the park that late--or have a conflicting ADR at another park or resort--am I just SoL? $15 paid to ride HM when there might not've even been a line when I got to MK.

Speaking of which . . . What will RD be like now? Will it still be advantageous to RD any/all of the parks? A way to bypass having to pay to not wait in long lines?

My sister and I were at WDW in May and there were extremely long lines for the E-ticket attractions. We rode FoP only once during our weeklong stay (4 days booked at DAK) because the lines were just horrendous. We were able to ride MMRR without an hour+ wait only because we got up super early and got to DHS before the official opening time . . . which meant no real breakfast at the resort, since they had only pastries and coffee that early in the morning.

Right now I'm missing FP+ big-time. Gigantic big-time. I liked knowing that I had the 3 attractions I wanted most already booked at times I preferred and that I wouldn't have to wait very long for them. Now it seems I may or may not get the rides I want at the times I'd prefer. 

Or not. I mean, who really knows?

And although it's not incredibly common, there are people out there who don't have a smartphone. What the heck are they going to do? Wait, I guess.

Meanwhile, still no resort discounts past September. And, yeah, that delta thing.


----------



## JakeAZ

sponica said:


> My kids need to be out of car seats for me to stay outside of the bubble.


I don’t know how old your kids are but we’ve been using travel boosters for our kids. They fold up and can go in a backpack. We use them for trips where we will be relying on Uber / Lyft occasionally.


----------



## billlaurie

I haven't read through the whole thread but I think this will also take away the rope drop advantage for us early risers. If everyone is up at 7 anyway having the privilege to book and pay for what amounts to what we used to call free fast passes, they are going to head to the parks early. No spreading out the crowds, especially if the rides go fast like they did with the paper fast pass system. And the constant need to be on the phone. No thanks! I am so happy that I booked an all inclusive Beaches trip to Jamaica next summer instead of succumbing to my Disney itch because this sounds like total stress to me. I guess I will use my $1500 in accumulated Disney Dollars toward my Caribbean flights!


----------



## Dashzap

diskids2 said:


> An instagram I follow - Michaeldoesdisney - reported that onsite guests would have earlier access to Lightening Lane.  Not sure how true this is or isn't.


It is true. 7am for resort guests (like getting RoR boarding group)
At park open for those off property.

source= CM


----------



## js

Is it $15 per FP? For instance, when I get to MK, can I book my first FP for $15 and then when I want another ride, I can book another one for $15?

Thank you.


----------



## rmclain73

diskids2 said:


> An instagram I follow - Michaeldoesdisney - reported that onsite guests would have earlier access to Lightening Lane.  Not sure how true this is or isn't.




They do.  At 7:00am.  Offsite guests get access to purchase when the park opens.  Everyone gets access to G+ at 7:00am no matter where you are staying.


----------



## Lashed34

js said:


> Is it $15 per FP? For instance, when I get to MK, can I book my first FP for $15 and then when I want another ride, I can book another one for $15?
> 
> Thank you.


No, you pay $15 for Genie+. Once you have that you can book a LL (Lightning Lane) for a ride, once you have been on the ride you can then book another one....and so on as many times as you can.

You can ALSO play for the top attractions, but the cost for those has not been confirmed and will probably differ between rides> You can only pay for 2 rides a day.


----------



## mi*vida*loca

js said:


> Is it $15 per FP? For instance, when I get to MK, can I book my first FP for $15 and then when I want another ride, I can book another one for $15?
> 
> Thank you.



$15 per person for the day. Unlimited FP. Additional money for tier 1 rides.


----------



## rmclain73

js said:


> Is it $15 per FP? For instance, when I get to MK, can I book my first FP for $15 and then when I want another ride, I can book another one for $15?
> 
> Thank you.



$15 per day, not ride.


----------



## sponica

JakeAZ said:


> I don’t know how old your kids are but we’ve been using travel boosters for our kids. They fold up and can go in a backpack. We use them for trips where we will be relying on Uber / Lyft occasionally.



Alas, I am in 5 point restraint land for another 3 to 4 years.....

I figure we have one more trip after the "budget, what budget" trip because my younger kiddo can't ride the big rides yet.

I'm just going to see how this all shakes out, I remember NOT liking FP+ when it launched but I also don't make it a mission to ride all the rides, so if Genie/Genie+ will suggest an easier path and allow me to opt out of a couple lines, that's fine. That being said, I'm sure they'll tweak things along the way. I remember when you park hopped you couldn't get a FP+ on the app and they fixed that.


----------



## Cabius

js said:


> Is it $15 per FP? For instance, when I get to MK, can I book my first FP for $15 and then when I want another ride, I can book another one for $15?
> 
> Thank you.


For Genie+ you would pay $15 per day for all the passes you can snag. However it will exclude the most popular attractions (like 7DMT) which would require an additional charge on top of that. And of course all passes are subject to availability.


----------



## ucf_knight

cantsayNolaf said:


> Is it confirmed that you can only book one attraction per "group" vs one attraction per person?


I don’t know about confirmed but that’s how I’m reading it


----------



## ckb_nc

I would imagine this naturally extends the park reservation system (aka you can only book a FP at 7am for the park you have a reservation for) as part of it. Park hopping after 2 with G+ only once you are in the park (geo-location based).  At least for WDW - Maxpass allowed multi-park FP booking if you had multi-park tickets.


----------



## Tasmen

billlaurie said:


> I haven't read through the whole thread but I think this will also take away the rope drop advantage for us early risers. If everyone is up at 7 anyway having the privilege to book and pay for what amounts to what we used to call free fast passes, they are going to head to the parks early.



I think that may be the case for some but not all.  On my recent DL & WDW trips, I got up early specifically to get at Rise boarding group.  Sometimes we headed right to the parks after.  A few times we did not.  We did not head in until we needed to for the boarding group.

I like the idea of being able to plan your day a bit more casually than having to go go go go.  But I'm also a huge fan of MaxPass at DL and this Genie+ sounds basically the same thing, just $5 a day than the cost at DL at the time.  I found that we got a lot more riding in (I mean A LOT) with max pass than running from ride to ride to get a fastpass.  I certainly min/MAX'd our passes for the day like a good video game lover.


----------



## Airb330

I know they're trying to direct park guest traffic flow, but what about ALL the people who didn't come into the parks until 2-3PM or even 5PM to close with FP+? Now we're going to be in the park earlier too otherwise Genie+ holds little value. 

As others have said, there should've been a way to do this but also have some sort of option for picking things in advance (even if way less than 60 days). Even 1 choice beats 0.


----------



## mi*vida*loca

ckb_nc said:


> I would imagine this naturally extends the park reservation system (aka you can only book a FP at 7am for the park you have a reservation for) as part of it. Park hopping after 2 with G+ only once you are in the park (geo-location based).  At least for WDW - Maxpass allowed multi-park FP booking if you had multi-park tickets.



I did see that you can book in multiple parks. I can see them allowing you to book a later FP in a different park even if you aren’t in the park. At least this way they know how many people plan on hopping had to where. Or maybe that will just be for the tier 1s you pay for.


----------



## Kbrb

Ive already emailed disney to complain. 

I will report back


----------



## Lashed34

mi*vida*loca said:


> I did see that you can book in multiple parks. I can see them allowing you to book a later FP in a different park even if you aren’t in the park. At least this way they know how many people plan on hopping had to where. Or maybe that will just be for the tier 1s you pay for.


Yes, this is how I understand it because you can book initially from your onsite hotel without being in a specific park and they'll know if you have a park hopper ticket.


----------



## TangledHairDon'tCare

I keep seeing people refer to Genie+ and Lightning Lane as two separate things.  Genie+ gets you access to the LL for tier 2 rides and you do not need to purchase it for access to pay for the LL tier 1 rides.  I hope the way I’ve worded that makes sense!


----------



## mi*vida*loca

Lashed34 said:


> Yes, this is how I understand it because you can book initially from your onsite hotel without being in a specific park.



I would like to be able to book one for our second park before I leave my first park. We like midday breaks so it would be nice to have That set ride waiting for us.


----------



## eleven24

Soon coming to Disney Genie:

* $15 per person for front row parade viewing 
* $25 per person for hub area in front of castle during fireworks.  Main Street viewing $15.  
* Super Quick Service food line: $10 per person and no wait for your food!
* Ride seat selection priority.  $7 per person per seat in front row/car.  $5 in back.
* $5 per person per entire trip water mister access
* $20 per day prime stroller parking area access
* $50 per day stroller+ access (includes cast member wipe down of stroller after rain and valet service)
* $10 per day for "express walking lane access" throughout park
* $1971 per person per trip for Walt+ package including all of the above, plus a limited edition souvenir refillable cup**

** refillable cup locations temporarily closed due to COVID.


----------



## Lashed34

TangledHairDon'tCare said:


> I keep seeing people refer to Genie+ and Lightning Lane as two separate things.  Genie+ gets you access to the LL for tier 2 rides and you do not need to purchase it for access to pay for the LL tier 1 rides.  I hope the way I’ve worded that makes sense!


Yes, Genie just advises you. Genie+ gives you access to LL.
Pay for Tier 1 rides do not require you to have Genie at all.


----------



## Lashed34

mi*vida*loca said:


> I would like to be able to book one for our second park before I leave my first park. We like midday breaks so it would be nice to have That set ride waiting for us.


As soon as your first LL is used you can book another, so all good for you.


----------



## JakeAZ

eleven24 said:


> ** refillable cup locations temporarily closed due to COVID.


----------



## itf

Lashed34 said:


> As soon as your first LL is used you can book another, so all good for you.



This really assumes you can get an early ride. If you find your earliest ride time is mid-day, say it's a bust. At what point do you pay your $15 here? When you make the first LL or do you have to pay the $15 and then see what you can get if anything.


----------



## boop0524

I'm really curious to see first the pricing for the Tier 1 attractions and then secondly how this works for people when it rolls out. I'm willing to reserve my full judgement until those things happen. We all pretty much knew this was coming, and I'm not turned off by $15 a day. That said, this needs to be something that works if we're paying for it and I'd also like to ride my favorite rides (7DMT, Slinky) without paying an arm and a leg. I do also really feel for people who just want to visit the most Magical Place on Earth and have no clue the degree of planning involved nowadays. Sure, there's also been planning involved, but I think you could definitely wing it more in the past.... I know Disney is not completely blind to the criticism they've received for some of their recent decisions, so we'll see how it plays out. I'm hoping to be pleasantly surprised


----------



## Turksmom

eleven24 said:


> * $10 per day for "express walking lane access" throughout park


I'd actually pay for that one.


----------



## mi*vida*loca

We loved having 3 FP+ set up for our arrival day. Now would it even be worth it to show up to a crowded park after our flight. Can I see what G+ has available before I purchase? I would hate to purchase it then find out there’s nothing left.


----------



## dvc lover 1970

Here's a thought lets get rid of the genie system and get rid of Chapek. He is worst than Iger! Under his leadership disney has become very undisney! I wish the Genie would make him disappear!


----------



## Lashed34

itf said:


> This really assumes you can get an early ride. If you find your earliest ride time is mid-day, say it's a bust. At what point do you pay your $15 here? When you make the first LL or do you have to pay the $15 and then see what you can get if anything.


Well, this is the big debate issue - we are assuming you pay your $15 and then hope and prey there is an LL for a ride that you want to go on. I believe if you prebook prior to a visit you have to book Genie+ for the duration of the visit. What I'm unsure of is, if you pay once in resort, at what time of the day you can purchase it - but once in resort you can pay for what days you wish to use it, not the full duration. It's all very odd to be honest.


----------



## luv2cheer92

billlaurie said:


> I haven't read through the whole thread but I think this will also take away the rope drop advantage for us early risers. If everyone is up at 7 anyway having the privilege to book and pay for what amounts to what we used to call free fast passes, they are going to head to the parks early. No spreading out the crowds, especially if the rides go fast like they did with the paper fast pass system. And the constant need to be on the phone. No thanks! I am so happy that I booked an all inclusive Beaches trip to Jamaica next summer instead of succumbing to my Disney itch because this sounds like total stress to me. I guess I will use my $1500 in accumulated Disney Dollars toward my Caribbean flights!


I've seen several posters and comments mention that it likely means one person will get up early to reserve while the rest of the family sleeps. There very well could still be an advantage, especially with all 4 parks having early entry every day to spread crowds out.


----------



## Grasshopper2016

My best guesses as to the answers to your questions:



Miffy said:


> If I park-hop, will I get another set of 2 tier-1 attractions that I'll have the "privilege" of paying for? Or did I use up my 2 for the day at park #1?



Nope.  2 attractions per day, though they don't both have to be at the same park.  (I wish that weren't so, but I think it is.)



Miffy said:


> If I park-hop, do I have to pay for G+ all over again for the new park? And what if I go back to park #1 in the evening? Ack!



Nope.  Genie+ should last all day, at multiple parks for park hoppers.  (I will be really angry if this is wrong!)



Miffy said:


> Will there be any way to select a preferred time? I mean, if I get to the park at RD and by the time I get off ride #1, my desired #2 ride isn't available until 8 p.m. and I have no intention of staying in the park that late--or have a conflicting ADR at another park or resort--am I just SoL? $15 paid to ride HM when there might not've even been a line when I got to MK.



I believe that you will be able to select times for the extra paid tier-1 Lightning Lane passes, but not for the regular tier-2 Genie+ passes.  You just get the next available time.



Miffy said:


> What will RD be like now? Will it still be advantageous to RD any/all of the parks? A way to bypass having to pay to not wait in long lines?



For onsite guests who get the 30-minute early entry bonus, rope drop will get you a relatively short wait for one tier-1 ride.  For offsite guests, I don't see much of an advantage anymore.


----------



## Mrs~Incredible

We have a trip booked for the fall, but sadly I know in my heart this is our last.

Too complicated
Too many upcharges- I hate the feeling of missing out on great stuff when I’m already paying SO. MUCH.
Too much revenue focus that bleeds out into every experience now. The spirit of the place has been dwindling for years. Being tied to a phone constantly adding more cost is beyond the pale for this Mouseketeer. 

I will miss you Disney. At least the way you used to be.


----------



## Stefne

jimmymc said:


> Wasn't that the case with Maxpass anyway? One pass at a time?


You could hold more than one pass with MaxPass, you just had to allow 90 minutes to elapse (or use your current one if the return window wasn't too far in the future) before you could get another.  If for instance, I grabbed a pass for Space Mtn at 9:30 in the morning with a return time of 1PM, I could grab another pass for something else at 11AM.  The new version sounds as if you can only have 1 pass at a time regardless of how far in the future the return time is.


----------



## itf

Lashed34 said:


> Well, this is the big debate issue - we are assuming you pay your $15 and then hope and prey there is an LL for a ride that you want to go on. I believe if you prebook prior to a visit you have to book Genie+ for the duration of the visit. What I'm unsure of is, if you pay once in resort, at what time of the day you can purchase it - but once in resort you can pay for what days you wish to use it, not the full duration. It's all very odd to be honest.



I'm staying off-site next year but have a 14 day ticket (of which we'll do 10 park days, theoretically) - I would hope they're not going to make me pay for 14 days G+ when I'm not visiting the park every day. But as I said before in this thread, depending on how it shakes out we may just end up not going. :|


----------



## JakeAZ

mi*vida*loca said:


> We loved having 3 FP+ set up for our arrival day. Now would it even be worth it to show up to a crowded park after our flight. Can I see what G+ has available before I purchase? I would hate to purchase it then find out there’s nothing left.


There is a preview function built in to see what's available before buying it.  The preview price is $15pp per day


----------



## JakeAZ

Stefne said:


> You could hold more than one pass with MaxPass, you just had to allow 90 minutes to elapse (or use your current one if the return window wasn't too far in the future) before you could get another.  If for instance, I grabbed a pass for Space Mtn at 9:30 in the morning with a return time of 1PM, I could grab another pass for something else at 11AM.  The new version sounds as if you can only have 1 pass at a time regardless of how far in the future the return time is.


I have seen reports there will be a 120 minute window where you can grab another one.  Reliable website, but I don't believe it's been 100% confirmed.


----------



## Kbrb

I see they are getting rave reviews on twitter, facebook, youtube and any other social media they are stupid enough to post on. 

They must have known this was going to happen which leads me to think they dont care and think we will all complain and pay up regardless


----------



## diskids2

mi*vida*loca said:


> For the additional add on rides you will. But for G+ that you pay $15 a person you won’t.



ahhhhhh.  I wonder how much earlier?  a day or an hour.....just wondering.


----------



## Stefne

JakeAZ said:


> I have seen reports there will be a 120 minute window where you can grab another one.  Reliable website, but I don't believe it's been 100% confirmed.


I hope this is true!


----------



## katyringo

My other thought to this is: waiting in line isn’t the end of the world.

so we buy the genie plus and use lightening lane for all the “tier 2” rides and then maybe we wait in the line for those top rides. I mean.. is that the worst thing ever?

I feel like folks act like if they can’t have fastpass they can’t ride.

the concerns with what if the return time you get in your first choice is later and then you can’t get another for a long time.. I really don’t think that will happen. I realllly think it will work like maxpass. I know it says make another after you have used it but maxpass had that language too and it used a timer as well as after you used it. 


didn’t it say you would need to chose the next available time? So if you are logged on at 7am. The first time you are going to see is for park opening time.. so you choose your first one. But the parks are open to resort guests half hour early. So NO one has fastpass the first half hour. Rope drop a couple rides, hit your first fastpass and then immediately book the next fastpass. Everyone else staying on site will only have been able to book one and the day guests will just have been able to book their first one.. you will book your second probably for a late morning time. And by the time lunch rolls around you will have gone a good amount

those of you who don’t want to come to the parks early.. it says “starting at 7” you can watch the return times and start watching for times to align when you will get into the parks.


----------



## katyringo

Stefne said:


> I hope this is true!


 This is how maxpass works.


----------



## mi*vida*loca

diskids2 said:


> ahhhhhh.  I wonder how much earlier?  a day or an hour.....just wondering.



on-site can do it at 7 am. Off-site can do it once they enter the park.


----------



## Opie100

Assume family of four; four (4) Disney World park days:

*Old way: Fast Passes - Free; planning ahead allowed*
Tier 2 new way: Genie: $15/per person = $60 per day x 4 days = $240
Tier 1 new way: Lightning Pass (LP): $15/per ride (approx.) x 2 per day = $30 per person x 4 people = $120 x 4 days = $480
*Total new way: $720 *($180 more per person per trip for family of 4); *planning ahead not allowed*
Note: LP attractions could be more expensive


----------



## Grasshopper2016

Here are some questions that I think are still unanswered.

(1) When does this launch?  "Fall" could be as soon as September 1 or as late as December 21.

(2) What are the rides that will cost extra and aren't included in Genie+?  

(3) How will Disney allocate capacity between LL and standby?  If a lot of people buy Genie+, Disney will have to either (A) allocate tons of capacity to it, making standby lines terrible, or (B) allow the LL times to run out relatively early in the day, making Genie+ a ripoff.  How do they balance this?

(4) Will Disney attempt to solve this problem by releasing the LL passes for Genie+ rides intermittently throughout the day?  If so, will there by "drop" times?  Will people have to refresh like crazy to try to get lucky?

(5) With the tier-1 rides not included in Genie+, will Disney limit the amount sold to keep the standby wait reasonable?  Will the dynamic pricing be enough to do the same?  Or will the standby lines be miserable (thus encouraging people to pay to skip them)?

(5) How much will those extra tier-1 LL passes that aren't included in Genie+ cost?  Approximately how much are we talking on a normal day, a crowded day, and an insanely crowded day?

(6) At 7:00 for onsite guests and park opening for offsite guests, can you book both of your tier-1 extras, or can you only book one of them?  If only one, when can you book the second?  After you scan in for the first one?


----------



## Dead2009

Imagine paying 24 bucks each time you wanna use the lightning line if you didnt do the Genie+ thing. That's a hard pass for me.


----------



## Jennasis

Am I completely out of my mind or did the Genie thing originally claim to grant wishes?? Like 3 wishes per guest? Did I imagine that or wasn't that a thing? Or at least a rumored thing.


----------



## Grasshopper2016

Dead2009 said:


> Imagine paying 24 bucks each time you wanna use the lightning line if you didnt do the Genie+ thing.


The rides covered by those two things don't overlap.  Genie+ gets you lightning lane access to most (but not all) rides for a flat daily fee.  There is no a la carte ability to buy a lightning lane pass for any of those rides.  The rides that you can purchase individual Lightning Lane access to are not included in Genie+ at all.   And you can only purchase two of them per day.


----------



## Delirium

Opie100 said:


> Assume: family of four; four (4) Disney World park days:
> 
> *Old way: Fast Passes - Free; planning ahead allowed*
> New way: Genie: $15/per person = $60 per day x 4 days = $240
> New way: Lightning Pass: $15/per ride (approx.) x 2 per day = $30 per person x 4 people = $120 x 4 days = $480
> *New way: TOTAL $720 *($180 more per person per trip for family of 4); *planning ahead not allowed*
> Note: LP attractions could be more expensive



All true.  But, just think about all of the quality time you get to spend with your phone.  Next upcharge will be a fee to use an in-park phone charging station.  They may even make that a Tier 1 experience..


----------



## Delilah1310

SealedSeven said:


> Doesn't the Extra Hours for DVC rotate between all 4 parks? (has there been more info released?) All the LL should be available to DVC with ease during those times..... hopefully...



Hopefully ... but so far, for October - the only dates released - it was just MK and EP for the extra evening hours.
all on property guests can start the day 30 minutes before non-resort guests ... every park, every day.
let me see if I can find the link.


----------



## honeymo78

katyringo said:


> My other thought to this is: waiting in line isn’t the end of the world.
> 
> so we buy the genie plus and use lightening lane for all the “tier 2” rides and then maybe we wait in the line for those top rides. I mean.. is that the worst thing ever?
> 
> I feel like folks act like if they can’t have fastpass they can’t ride.
> 
> the concerns with what if the return time you get in your first choice is later and then you can’t get another for a long time.. I really don’t think that will happen. I realllly think it will work like maxpass. I know it says make another after you have used it but maxpass had that language too and it used a timer as well as after you used it.
> 
> 
> didn’t it say you would need to chose the next available time? So if you are logged on at 7am. The first time you are going to see is for park opening time.. so you choose your first one. But the parks are open to resort guests half hour early. So NO one has fastpass the first half hour. Rope drop a couple rides, hit your first fastpass and then immediately book the next fastpass. Everyone else staying on site will only have been able to book one and the day guests will just have been able to book their first one.. you will book your second probably for a late morning time. And by the time lunch rolls around you will have gone a good amount
> 
> those of you who don’t want to come to the parks early.. it says “starting at 7” you can watch the return times and start watching for times to align when you will get into the parks.


I've made similar points before about waiting in line not being the end of the world.  I also don't think you need to be up and booking at 7am if you don't want a time within the first hour or 2 of park opening for most rides.  The people who book at 7am for a 9-10am slot can't book another one until they have used that one.  If you wake up at 8:30 and go to book, I'd think your times for most rides would be in the 10-noon ballpark (maybe later for more popular rides).  You only get up early if you want an early time slot or are paying to select a time slot for something like SDMT.  

It seems like rational thought is out the window though and I'm supposed to act like this is the worst thing that has ever happened and I'll never go back.  I already have 3 trips planned for 2022 and none of this is making me cancel or second guess those trips.  I'll likely buy G+ for at least a portion of those trips and maybe purchase 1-2 time slots each trip as well (but maybe not since lines are not an issue for my family).  If we are rope dropping or trying for a BG, I'll be up at 7am, if not I'll be sleeping in and getting whatever G+ is available when I wake up, assuming I purchase it for that day.


----------



## rangerxenos

Grasshopper2016 said:


> Here are some questions that I think are still unanswered.
> 
> (1) When does this launch?  "Fall" could be as soon as September 1 or as late as December 21.



Without FP of any kind at the moment and crowd levels being pretty much back to normal, I think they're going to have to have it in place and working by the start of the 50th Anniversary on October 1st.


----------



## mi*vida*loca

Jennasis said:


> Am I completely out of my mind or did the Genie thing originally claim to grant wishes?? Like 3 wishes per guest? Did I imagine that or wasn't that a thing? Or at least a rumored thing.



It was a rumor. But maybe once Everything is unveiled it’ll be something we get.


----------



## Lashed34

I wonder how long it will take Genie & Genie+ will drain your phone of all power? 

And how much the power packs will increase in cost...?


----------



## TeddieM

luv2cheer92 said:


> Onsite guests get to book their additional top tier LL ride at 7. Everyone gets to book the first genie ride at 7.



I still can’t believe the big genie perk to stay onsite is the opportunity to pay more money for what used to be a free experience after already being gouged to death with all the covid cuts.

It really feels like Disney is telling us, the guests, we’re doing you a favor by letting you visit our parks.


----------



## Sjm9911

honeymo78 said:


> I've made similar points before about waiting in line not being the end of the world.  I also don't think you need to be up and booking at 7am if you don't want a time within the first hour or 2 of park opening for most rides.  The people who book at 7am for a 9-10am slot can't book another one until they have used that one.  If you wake up at 8:30 and go to book, I'd think your times for most rides would be in the 10-noon ballpark (maybe later for more popular rides).  You only get up early if you want an early time slot or are paying to select a time slot for something like SDMT.
> 
> It seems like rational thought is out the window though and I'm supposed to act like this is the worst thing that has ever happened and I'll never go back.  I already have 3 trips planned for 2022 and none of this is making me cancel or second guess those trips.  I'll likely buy G+ for at least a portion of those trips and maybe purchase 1-2 time slots each trip as well (but maybe not since lines are not an issue for my family).  If we are rope dropping or trying for a BG, I'll be up at 7am, if not I'll be sleeping in and getting whatever G+ is available when I wake up, assuming I purchase it for that day.


Unfortunately,  times are a bit diffeent now. We used to be able to have a drink or snack in the line. With covid, thats out. So, I would rather not wait in a line. Before all this , we didn't mind, bexause we could eat and drink. Now, stranding in a line isn't as pleasant as it once was.


----------



## Leight19

Jennasis said:


> Am I completely out of my mind or did the Genie thing originally claim to grant wishes?? Like 3 wishes per guest? Did I imagine that or wasn't that a thing? Or at least a rumored thing.


I believe one of the YouTube videos that described this (Len?) had mentioned some of the rumored things were not implemented likely due to techncal challenges. There was also rumors on this board before announcement the ap sales announcement was delayed so this could roll out first. This makes me believe there was some additional tie ins that either got dropped due to difficulty implementing or will be announced later with ap system.


----------



## JakeAZ

Forcing you to grab the next available time isn't great.  Especially if park hopping is involved.


----------



## EPCOT-O.G.

Jennasis said:


> Am I completely out of my mind or did the Genie thing originally claim to grant wishes?? Like 3 wishes per guest? Did I imagine that or wasn't that a thing? Or at least a rumored thing.


It’s pretty surreal that Disney has gotten us all so brainwashed that being able to experience an attraction for which we’ve paid upwards of $150/person for the day has got us WISHING. Whew.


----------



## ckb_nc

mi*vida*loca said:


> I did see that you can book in multiple parks. I can see them allowing you to book a later FP in a different park even if you aren’t in the park. At least this way they know how many people plan on hopping had to where. Or maybe that will just be for the tier 1s you pay for.



I dont see them letting you book one than one more park a day reservation - in theory I could book all four parks (and yes I have done 4 and 1 more than once )and create ghost space in the parks. Park hopping is a privilege not a right. If I remember correctly, I had to be in the Parks or near DL to use MaxPass. I don't expect to be able G+ after my first park  reservation of the day unless I am literally near the park (standing at the entrance).

Tiers 1 get well interesting - lets say I got HS with my park reservation, would Disney allow me to "buy" access to Tron for say 5pm if my tickets allowed park hopping? If they do, it has to guarantee entry?? I have a hard time seeing them let me do that but the almighty dollar wins


----------



## Opie100

Am I correct that buying Genie+ may mean only one attraction per day -- for example, party of four enter, they want Smugglers Run, time available is 6:30pm, once they use that they try for another attraction and nothing left?


----------



## twodogs

As a person who went to DLR and WDW many times (pre-COVID) and enjoyed the MaxPass system at DLR, this sounds similar.  For MP, you could add it to your multi-day ticket all at once when you purchased the ticket, or you could add it day by day once you were there.  So you could choose the days that you wanted to pay for MP and choose days that it might not be worth it to you (maybe arrival or departure days which would be short and not “worth it”).  Maybe Genie + will be the same.

I know lots of folks are upset that you can’t book any in advance like FP+, but this works great for those who tend to book last minute trips.  It also gives everyone an equal shot for those LLs on the day.  I really loved this at DLR.

I would like to see them allow you to stack LL bookings like they did with MP.  That was amazing!!  

With MP, you did not get to choose your return time either, you just got the next available time.  But you could “refresh” and often earlier times would pop up (presumably from others canceling FPs, but maybe they were dropping more FPs at times based on real time ride conditions).  So the folks who are upset about that aspect, once you become savvy with it (and the people on this board certainly will), you will find that you don’t have to take that return time of 3 hours from now, usually!


----------



## Poor Gail

So yet again Annual Passholders get hosed.  I already pay a chunk every month for our passes.  There is no way on earth I can pull together another $45 every two or three weeks, which is how often my daughters and I go to a park.  It's already gotten to the point where we can barely afford one QS meal while we are there, and carry lots of snacks/drink water.

My only satisfaction is knowing that all the people I've heard howling for years about how much better things were before Fastpass (spoiler alert, they weren't) will get it in the neck.  They either get to cough green or stand in the three hour lines with us common rabble.


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

Opie100 said:


> Am I correct that buying Genie+ may mean only one attraction per day -- for example, party of four enter, they want Smugglers Run, time available is 6:30pm, once they use that they try for another attraction and nothing left?


That’s what I’m thinking.  Not good!


----------



## ckb_nc

Opie100 said:


> Am I correct that buying Genie+ may mean only one attraction per day -- for example, party of four enter, they want Smugglers Run, time available is 6:30pm, once they use that they try for another attraction and nothing left?



Could be - if after 6:30 there is no more availability.  The early bid will get the worm


----------



## Cabius

There's so much going on with this announcement -- some good, some bad, depending on what type of guest you are and what you value. Here's my attempt to dissect the good and bad of the changes:

*Shift from 60/30-day booking window to day-of booking*
The 60/30-day booking window allowed the savviest of us to snag great FP opportunities, but at the expense of less savvy guests. As an on-site über-planner this change hurts me, but I also get wanting to tilt the scales to the benefit of newer or less savvy guests. Plus, even when I gain an advantage from the system, having to plan every day two months in advance is a real pain.

_Good for: less savvy guests; anybody who doesn't want to plan their day months in advance; off-site guests (including locals/APs)

Bad for: savvy on-site guests_

*Shift from 3 passes/ticket to 1 at a time*
As with the item above, the goal here is to increase the availability of LLPs for guests who show up for the day and learn about the system for the first time. With savvy guests snagging 3 FPs months in advance, there wasn't much left day-of. But with passes booked one at a time, there should be greater availability for those who pay for the system.

_Good for: casual guests; greater LLP availability throughout the day

Bad for: savviest on-site guests who previously snagged all the good rides_

*$15/person/day up-charge*
Just how good/bad this is really depends on how many people use the option. There is this weird dynamic where as more people purchase it, it becomes less valuable (compared to the old status quo) but more necessary.

If only 10% of guests pay for Genie+, then the Lightning Lane will not take a lot of capacity, and Standby will move relatively quickly.


But if 70% of guests buy Genie+ then Standby queues will just crawl along like they used to. (Sites like TouringPlans have long reported that FP+ was allocated ~70% of capacity for most rides).
So if adoption is low, buying Genie+ might give you a real advantage versus the old FP+ system. But if adoption is high, you're stuck paying more money for less value than you had before, only because the alternative is even worse.

_Good for: Disney's profitability; guests willing to pay for it (if adoption is low)

Bad for: guests who don't buy it; guests who do buy it (if adoption is high); locals/APs_

*Removal of top-tier attractions / Separate up-charge*
Again, the actual guest up-take for these add-on LLPs will make a big difference to how this plays out.

Completely eliminating FP/LL for top-tier attractions would increase the throughput of the Standby queues. That would theoretically reduce wait times for Standby. We can have long arguments about whether that's a good strategy or not, and whether the induced demand would just cancel out the increased throughput altogether. But it's arguably not insane.

But with the addition of the individual Lighting Lane Pass, some of that throughput will be taken back out, driving Standby waits back up for those unwilling or unable to pay the up-charge.

If guest up-take is low, and only 10% of capacity goes to the Lightning Lane, the impact is basically similar to eliminating FP+, for good or for ill.


If guest up-take is high, and 70% of capacity goes to the Lightning Lane, we're back to the wait time dynamic we had with FP+, just a little bit poorer.
So again: if adoption is low, this scheme can provide some benefit to those willing to pay for it. But if up-take is high, it ends up providing the same value as the old FP+ but at substantial additional cost. _Not everybody can be at the front of the line._

In particular, depending on how much capacity sets aside for Rise of the Resistance it could become de facto necessary to pay to ride. If enough guests are willing to pay for access to take 90% of capacity, Disney will give 90% of capacity to paying guests and only 10% for boarding group lotteries. This could get ugly.

_Good for: Disney's profitability; guests willing to pay for it (if adoption is low)

Bad for: guests who don't buy it; guests who do buy it (if adoption is high); anybody hoping to ride RotR for free.

===_

Personally I prefer the shift to one-at-a-time day-of booking, because even though I benefited from the old scheme I think this model is more fair and provides a better day-of guest experience, especially for casual / once-in-a-lifetime guests.

I find the up-charge schemes to be an ugly cash-grab that likely won't deliver on the promises about an improved guest experience -- but WILL deliver more of our dollars to Disney's coffers.

Ultimately we'll need to see what guest up-take looks like and how much capacity Disney devotes to these Lightning Lanes to see how it looks in the real-world. How many will purchase? Will they offer it for free to on-site guests at some point? Or even Deluxe/DVC only? 

The best-case scenario for guests is that up-take is minimal, so paying guests gain a real advantage for their dollars at minimal expense to the rest. But that doesn't align with Disney's profit motive, so... I'm not particularly enthusiastic


----------



## RamieGee

Jennasis said:


> Am I completely out of my mind or did the Genie thing originally claim to grant wishes?? Like 3 wishes per guest? Did I imagine that or wasn't that a thing? Or at least a rumored thing.



I was wondering the same thing…wasn’t that a frequently talked about feature? What are the wishes?


----------



## Opie100

twodogs said:


> I know lots of folks are upset that you can’t book any in advance like FP+, but this works great for those who tend to book last minute trips.  It also gives everyone an equal shot for those LLs on the day.  I really loved this at DLR.
> 
> I would like to see them allow you to stack LL bookings like they did with MP.  That was amazing!!
> 
> With MP, you did not get to choose your return time either, you just got the next available time.  But you could “refresh” and often earlier times would pop up (presumably from others canceling FPs, but maybe they were dropping more FPs at times based on real time ride conditions).  So the folks who are upset about that aspect, once you become savvy with it (and the people on this board certainly will), you will find that you don’t have to take that return time of 3 hours from now, usually!


Last minute trips it only helps if you arrive at the park at 6am and don't mind waiting in the regular line for more attractions, since you may only get one attraction on your Genie+. Having to continually "refresh" to get earlier times means we spend much of our vacation time staring at our phones, something we are coming to Disney to avoid.


----------



## Miffy

@Cabius: As someone who was there in May (no FP+, no G+, all standby except for RotR BGs), I can tell you that lines for the tier 1 attractions we were most interested in were LONG. Very very very long. Necessitating RD every day, something we don't ordinarily do.

So there's utterly nothing, I don't think, that could make standby lines, other than standby lines for not-so-popular attractions, move quickly. Having the LL will make the standby queue even slower.

G+ has too much of a gambling aspect to it for me. I mean, I could get G+, get my first desired attraction in, and then nothing else I'm really interested in would be available at times I want to ride. I hope this isn't the case, but it could happen this way. Then I've paid $15 for one ride. Or, if that ride breaks down, maybe zero rides.


----------



## ckb_nc

twodogs said:


> As a person who went to DLR and WDW many times (pre-COVID) and enjoyed the MaxPass system at DLR, this sounds similar.  For MP, you could add it to your multi-day ticket all at once when you purchased the ticket, or you could add it day by day once you were there.  So you could choose the days that you wanted to pay for MP and choose days that it might not be worth it to you (maybe arrival or departure days which would be short and not “worth it”).  Maybe Genie + will be the same.
> 
> I know lots of folks are upset that you can’t book any in advance like FP+, but this works great for those who tend to book last minute trips.  It also gives everyone an equal shot for those LLs on the day.  I really loved this at DLR.
> 
> I would like to see them allow you to stack LL bookings like they did with MP.  That was amazing!!
> 
> With MP, you did not get to choose your return time either, you just got the next available time.  But you could “refresh” and often earlier times would pop up (presumably from others canceling FPs, but maybe they were dropping more FPs at times based on real time ride conditions).  So the folks who are upset about that aspect, once you become savvy with it (and the people on this board certainly will), you will find that you don’t have to take that return time of 3 hours from now, usually!



MP was really well done.  I thought classic FP and MP was a sweet spot.  I wanted MP for WDW. But what I am not excited about is the extra tier 1. It did not prevent day trippers from using FP.


----------



## trmiv

As a very close local, it changes things significantly for us that I need to seriously consider the value of even having an annual pass anymore.  It used to be I could refresh the app during the day and grab 3 nice fast passes for that evening. We’d head over, ride, eat dinner, ride, get dessert, ride, do some shopping, leave.  It kept waits minimal and allowed us to enjoy the rest of the park in the short time we usually stay for.  Now a 3-4 hour evening trip turns into a waiting in line for the majority of it, meaning we probably don’t bother with the extra stuff like a nice dinner or shopping.  Since we’ve gone so frequently there’s zero chance I’m spending $60 each time for a family of four to ride rides we’ve been on so many times.  I truly enjoy the rides, but not enough to pay additionally each time just to avoid the absurd waits.  Yes not riding rides at all is an option and for my wife and I that’s fine sometimes, but the kids want to go on rides.  

If they allow the service to be added on with a yearly fee to annual passes or add a new higher pass tier with it included I wouldn’t be happy about it, but I’d probably pay for it. I’d even be semi Ok with it if it was like Universal where it’s free after 4 for the top pass or whatever.  But the chances of me spending $60 for a family of 4 each time or paying for top tier rides is pretty much nil.  The end result is we will spend less time in the parks because it feels like a chore. So we won’t spend on dinners, desserts and shopping like we usually do.  In April when our passes are due for renewal again I may just let them lapse this time.


----------



## 4Hawks

Opie100 said:


> Assume family of four; four (4) Disney World park days:
> 
> *Old way: Fast Passes - Free; planning ahead allowed*
> Tier 2 new way: Genie: $15/per person = $60 per day x 4 days = $240
> Tier 1 new way: Lightning Pass (LP): $15/per ride (approx.) x 2 per day = $30 per person x 4 people = $120 x 4 days = $480
> *Total new way: $720 *($180 more per person per trip for family of 4); *planning ahead not allowed*
> Note: LP attractions could be more expensive



The Lighting Pass price is per person?! I hadn't even thought of that


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

4Hawks said:


> The Lighting Pass price is per person?! I hadn't even thought of that


Yep, per person


----------



## TangledHairDon'tCare

From Josh D’Amaro
“What our guests were telling us was that they wanted more simplicity and spontaneity. They wanted it to be a more convenient tool for them. We’ve done that with the Genie suite of products, so you don’t need to be scrambling and worried. Let the tool do the work for you. And then, show up and enjoy yourself. It’s that idea of simplicity that we love at Disney, and it’s what our fans told us they want. So this applies perfectly to Walt Disney World.”
Sounds like they were definitely responding to feedback about how much advance planning was required for a trip.

https://insidethemagic.net/2021/08/disney-no-advance-lightning-lanes-rwb1/


----------



## EPCOT-O.G.

TangledHairDon'tCare said:


> From Josh D’Amaro
> “What our guests were telling us was that they wanted more simplicity and spontaneity. They wanted it to be a more convenient tool for them. We’ve done that with the Genie suite of products, so you don’t need to be scrambling and worried. Let the tool do the work for you. And then, show up and enjoy yourself. It’s that idea of simplicity that we love at Disney, and it’s what our fans told us they want. So this applies perfectly to Walt Disney World.”
> Sounds like they were definitely responding to feedback about how much advance planning was required for a trip.
> 
> https://insidethemagic.net/2021/08/disney-no-advance-lightning-lanes-rwb1/


They could have easily done the same thing on the existing FP infrastructure without adding an additional cost.


----------



## Opie100

TangledHairDon'tCare said:


> From Josh D’Amaro
> “What our guests were telling us was that they wanted more simplicity and spontaneity. They wanted it to be a more convenient tool for them. We’ve done that with the Genie suite of products, so you don’t need to be scrambling and worried. Let the tool do the work for you. And then, show up and enjoy yourself. It’s that idea of simplicity that we love at Disney, and it’s what our fans told us they want. So this applies perfectly to Walt Disney World.”
> Sounds like they were definitely responding to feedback about how much advance planning was required for a trip.
> 
> https://insidethemagic.net/2021/08/disney-no-advance-lightning-lanes-rwb1/


I believe there are ways to accommodate both planners and non-planners without making people arrive at 6am for a small selection of advertised attractions.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Airb330 said:


> We all knew FP+ at WDW would be monetized. However, I didn’t think they’d go this “all in.” I would’ve kept the fastpass name. My simplified system would be:
> 
> Everyone gets 1 FP+  This is for offsite guests. Book 7 days ahead. You already have your park pass and dining planned; weather forecasts are getting better at this point. You’re excited the trip is only a week away. Includes headliners still.
> 
> Staying at Disney? You get 2 FP+ 7 days ahead. Maybe 14 days? 3 for deluxe snd DVC. This incentivizes staying on property, which is a large revenue stream with, I’d assume, a high margin?
> 
> You want extra? OK, you pay per ride while you’re in the park. It’s called a Genie Wish. Maybe every once in awhile one pops up for free, like magic.
> 
> Not saying this is great (I’d still prefer the old system) but it would make a ton and everyone feels they’re getting _something_. There’s no 7AM wake ups except for VQ.
> 
> Either way, ticket prices go up so build that $15pp they’re charging for Genie+ right into the ticket and then even extra €£¥$ is earned through the Genie wish.
> 
> The perception of value is important. The new system they unveiled today I think will make them a ton but sour some guests taste, and if the standby lines are very long—“first timers” will _still_ come back and say it’s crowded and (more) expensive to their friends and family.


Something like this would have been much better IMO. The 7 am each day really sucks. 



Lashed34 said:


> The whole thing creates at atmosphere of competitiveness that doesn't sound healthy at all.


Yep, someone in the DLR forum dubbed it the "competitive sport" of getting a boarding group. That's how it feels. I woke up every day for my sister and brother in law to get them passes when they went to DLR. They had a hard time with it even with detailed instructions. 

What I haven't seen factored in is the park reservation issue. This makes choosing a park even more difficult and could drive people to book certain parks every day solely for the purpose of having more chance to secure a certain ride or it could also hurt any advantage you have of choosing a certain park for a ride if the paid service opens up all parks at 7 am (on site guests) to rides at any park (not just the one you have a reservation at). 

IOW another layer for the competitive sport.


----------



## TangledHairDon'tCare

Opie100 said:


> I believe there are ways to accommodate both planners and non-planners without making people arrive at 5-6am.


Why would you arrive at 5-6am?


----------



## garris3404

Disney is nickel and diming (but with golden nickels and dimes) us to death for stuff that used to be free to all.  Extremely frustrated!


----------



## MJ6987

TangledHairDon'tCare said:


> From Josh D’Amaro
> “What our guests were telling us was that they wanted more simplicity and spontaneity. They wanted it to be a more convenient tool for them. We’ve done that with the Genie suite of products, so you don’t need to be scrambling and worried. Let the tool do the work for you. And then, show up and enjoy yourself. It’s that idea of simplicity that we love at Disney, and it’s what our fans told us they want. So this applies perfectly to Walt Disney World.”
> Sounds like they were definitely responding to feedback about how much advance planning was required for a trip.
> 
> https://insidethemagic.net/2021/08/disney-no-advance-lightning-lanes-rwb1/


Yeah, feels like a lot of this is to level the playing field so that planners don't have so much advantage over people who just turn up


----------



## ckb_nc

ENJDisneyFan said:


> Yep, per person



That to me is the real kick in the nuts. I agree with the math of the OP - and what is to suggest some sort of surge pricing? Does say Tron cost more Christmas Day than mid-September (why not - surge pricing is done here locally with the toll roads). 

We will miss FP+ if only for the ability to plan late days. My wife is a firm no.


----------



## JoJoGirl

eleven24 said:


> Soon coming to Disney Genie:
> 
> * $10 per day for "express walking lane access" throughout park



Hey, I would pay $20 for that!


----------



## itf

ckb_nc said:


> That to me is the real kick in the nuts. I agree with the math of the OP - and what is to suggest some sort of surge pricing? Does say Tron cost more Christmas Day than mid-September (why not - surge pricing is done here locally with the toll roads).
> 
> We will miss FP+ if only for the ability to plan late days. My wife is a firm no.



They've already said 'variable' pricing, so essentially surge pricing. My only consolation is we're booked for 'quiet' weeks end of Aug/beginning of Sept.


----------



## captain america 2003

Additional charge LL attractions , previously referred to as Tier 1 attractions , I suspect , and maybe I'm wrong...and I hope I am , probably won't be open during early entry mornings for resort guests . Think about it...HS opens at 8:30 for onsite guests and everyone heads for ROR .Then at 9:00 the park opens to everyone and the people who have the first ten or so boarding groups find a 2 hour or more wait time to ride already . Plus these attractions don't have standby lines for anytime so...I fear the strategy of getting in a LL extra charge/virtual que attraction before regular park hours is not going to be a option .


----------



## eleven24

JoJoGirl said:


> Hey, I would pay $20 for that!
> 
> View attachment 598269




I've got tons of ideas.  I could make Disney a fortune.  They should call me.

I'll sell them each idea for $10,000


----------



## eleven24

itf said:


> They've already said 'variable' pricing, so essentially surge pricing. My only consolation is we're booked for 'quiet' weeks end of Aug/beginning of Sept.



It will probably be variable just as the park passes are variable based on the day of the year.  I can't see them surge pricing by the hour like Uber or Lyft do.  What would be the point then of paying to "fastpass" a ride that is at a low wait volume and cheaper?


----------



## Lashed34

captain america 2003 said:


> Additional charge LL attractions , previously referred to as Tier 1 attractions , I suspect , and maybe I'm wrong...and I hope I am , probably won't be open during early entry mornings for resort guests . Think about it...HS opens at 8:30 for onsite guests and everyone heads for ROR .Then at 9:00 the park opens to everyone and the people who have the first ten or so boarding groups find a 2 hour or more wait time to ride already . Plus these attractions don't have standby lines for anytime so...I fear the strategy of getting in a LL extra charge/virtual que attraction before regular park hours is not going to be a option .


I agree - but then you have YET ANOTHER phone huggeing moment as people fight for the LL passes for RotR....it's a never ending battle and war just to get on a bloody theme park ride. Disney needs to sort this out, it's shocking how people are expected to virtually fight to get a boarding pass.


----------



## rangerxenos

Lashed34 said:


> I wonder how long it will take Genie & Genie+ will drain your phone of all power?
> 
> And how much the power packs will increase in cost...?



I bring my own, charge it each night and it's good for the next day.


----------



## TwoMisfits

eleven24 said:


> It will probably be variable just as the park passes are variable based on the day of the year.  I can't see them surge pricing by the hour like Uber or Lyft do.  What would be the point then of paying to "fastpass" a ride that is at a low wait volume and cheaper?



Of course, they could just understaff and take 1/2 the ride out of operation during the slow periods to keep a "minimum price" on those LL rides...


----------



## Cabius

TwoMisfits said:


> Of course, they could just understaff and take 1/2 the ride out of operation during the slow periods to keep a "minimum price" on those LL rides...


Posted wait times have already been wildly overstated for the past year, as a crowd control measure (the standby queues aren't designed to hold everybody!). If Pirates is a 15-minute wait, but posted as a 45-minute wait, that paid Lightning Lane looks more attractive, right?


----------



## ckb_nc

captain america 2003 said:


> Additional charge LL attractions , previously referred to as Tier 1 attractions , I suspect , and maybe I'm wrong...and I hope I am , probably won't be open during early entry mornings for resort guests . Think about it...HS opens at 8:30 for onsite guests and everyone heads for ROR .Then at 9:00 the park opens to everyone and the people who have the first ten or so boarding groups find a 2 hour or more wait time to ride already . Plus these attractions don't have standby lines for anytime so...I fear the strategy of getting in a LL extra charge/virtual que attraction before regular park hours is not going to be a option .



I wonder if by default tier 1 are all virtual queue only?  What is the value of early entry onsite if you can't ride Tron or Mine train?


----------



## wdw&sonny

I don't know if this has already been brought up, in the 47 previous pages...I admit I only read a few.  But with all the pros and cons, one I didn't see mentioned is how it will split families up.  I know for my family, the LL additional charge will divide us.  In the past, I could talk my wife into some of the Tier 1 (E ticket) rides, but now, with an extra charge, she will just say "it's not worth it for me to ride; I don't need to; I won't enjoy it enough to justify $10/$15".  And of course, I will then say "OK, let's skip it this time".  It will greatly diminish our enjoyment of the parks.  
I have been in the "wait and see" camp with WDW, in general.  This only adds to that.  I'll sit back and wait for the reports from other and see if WDW can ever again be my Happy Place.


----------



## JakeAZ

TwoMisfits said:


> Of course, they could just understaff and take 1/2 the ride out of operation during the slow periods to keep a "minimum price" on those LL rides...


That's the thing, right?  Nobody is better than Disney at offering paid "solutions" to the problems they created.

No enough people buying lightning passes?  Slow down capacity and lengthen that line!


----------



## SealedSeven

eleven24 said:


> I've got tons of ideas.  I could make Disney a fortune.  They should call me.
> 
> I'll sell them each idea for $10,000



Getting to the point where it's how I play Roller Coaster Tycoon. $5 to use bathrooms


----------



## Cliffside

EPCOT-O.G. said:


> They could have easily done the same thing on the existing FP infrastructure without adding an additional cost.


I was about to say the same thing


----------



## Unvoiced_Apollo

Well, I'm pretty much officially questioning my return to the parks any time soon.  

Don't get me wrong.   I have nothing against paying extra for some sort of express line.  Have done it for Universal.  But that was for ALL rides including their biggest (with the exception of their newest rides, understandably). So here you're telling me that not only do I have to pay for FastPass for Tier 2 rides, but now the Tier 1 rides cost an additional amount and it's based on crowds???

For a family of 4 dropping an extra $420 for a week long vacation, why not give them a Tier 1 return time like the parks did with FastPass+?  "Hey, you bought Disney Genie+.  As a reward for throwing more of your money at us, schedule a T1 lightning lane for your visit".

Actually, as I rant this out, there may be a silver lining IF the Tier 1 lightning lines prove to be cost prohibitive for many visitors, thereby keeping those lines shorter.  So I'll withhold the full force of my ire, but  still not happy about it.


----------



## Lashed34

On a different angle of the whole Genie/Genie+ thing - I wonder how much info Disney will get from your phone. with this...seems a very deep app this one, years in the making just give you tips and send you in the right direction (of where they want you to go)? Not convinced.


----------



## gakrrajo_1

My biggest problem with this is that for those that don't pay the standby wait times go way up.  So not only do you not get a benefit, you get penalized for not paying.  Would be nice if they offered 1 day a week in each park where genie+ wasn't offered.  Would relevel the playing field on those days and maybe even make things better since pay- to-players might avoid that park on that day.


----------



## diskids2

itf said:


> They've already said 'variable' pricing, so essentially surge pricing. My only consolation is we're booked for 'quiet' weeks end of Aug/beginning of Sept.



Let's take bets on my Dec. 21-Jan 2 trip.........


----------



## Cabius

Unvoiced_Apollo said:


> For a family of 4 dropping an extra $420 for a week long vacation...


Personally, assuming it doesn't have to be purchased for an entire ticket, I would probably only upgrade to Genie+ for 1-2 days out of a week.

With Tier-1 attractions not included, it would be laughably not worth it at Epcot. _Maybe_ worthwhile at DAK or DHS depending on the types I rides I want to do, but not really critical. 

Seems like there's real value at MK, but otherwise it's a tough sell for me.


----------



## ShirikiUtundu

diskids2 said:


> Let's take bets on my Dec. 21-Jan 2 trip.........



RIP your bank account


----------



## Miffy

SealedSeven said:


> Getting to the point where it's how I play Roller Coaster Tycoon. $5 to use bathrooms


I think $10 is more like it. We're talking about a necessity here!


----------



## JakeAZ

Unvoiced_Apollo said:


> Don't get me wrong. I have nothing against paying extra for some sort of express line. Have done it for Universal. But that was for ALL rides including their biggest (with the exception of their newest rides, understandably)


Aside from not giving any (real) on-site benefit, this is my biggest gripe too.  It's just too "piece meal".  Just introduce a package that requires no planning, no looking at your phone, no scheduling, no up charges AND no guide you have to hang out with for the day.

Sure, it will be astronomical in price, but at least it would be an option people could consider.

I'll be on my phone the whole trip (with early AM wake up calls) and my wife / kids will be oblivious to the behind the scenes nonsense.  So glad we cut a couple DW days added a few days at UO with express pass.


----------



## nonzerosum

I trust Genie to give me good advice and guidance just about as much as I trust a self-centred "friend".  All self-interest all the time and not very trustworthy.


----------



## diskids2

Assuming I purchase both for all 10 days of my tickets for each of the 3 people in my family and assuming it's $25 per Tier 1 - I'm looking at another $2000.  Yay me.!    I better get back to work!


----------



## Sandiz08

Disney Genie is targeting non seasoned park goers. We have no interest in this, as none of the rides are must dos unless we just haven't ever been on them.


----------



## Cabius

Does anybody else still expect to see a periodic "Free Genie+" promotion for on-site guests? Not all-the-time, but akin to Free Dining?


----------



## JakeAZ

Cabius said:


> Does anybody else still expect to see a periodic "Free Genie+" promotion for on-site guests? Not all-the-time, but akin to Free Dining?


Yep. Why give away food, when you can give away air?


----------



## eleven24

Cabius said:


> Posted wait times have already been wildly overstated for the past year, as a crowd control measure (the standby queues aren't designed to hold everybody!). If Pirates is a 15-minute wait, but posted as a 45-minute wait, that paid Lightning Lane looks more attractive, right?



Being a Disney veteran, my entire family can judge the approximate wait by where the people are in the line.  The Covid lines threw us for a bit with the 6' gap between people, but those were also way overstated even when you'd be waiting for Tower all the way back near the Amphitheater


----------



## eleven24

Miffy said:


> I think $10 is more like it. We're talking about a necessity here!



$20 for no wait bathroom lines


----------



## Sargeant Tibbs

brightlined said:


> That doesn't really mean anything. I mean, it still exists - they still built it. (They built Pandora, too.)
> 
> 
> So does Hagrid's. The point that I've been making is that Universal isn't immune from the problems that Disney has. It's closer to a "six of one-half-dozen" kind of thing. Going from Disney to Universal is trading these issues for those issues.
> 
> 
> I wasn't noting the quality. (I've also heard that it's amazing - but I'll nudge that you're an echo of the many people who can't/won't be able to enjoy the new great ride at the park.) Someone was lauding how quickly Universal installed it compared to Tron or Cosmic Rewind, and it's not a fair comparison, especially with the latter.



I feel like you're either moving goal posts, or didn't realize I was responding to the exact points you just made again, which means we're in a cyclical discussion.


----------



## tehSAC

Ugh, this crap is why my family and I won't be coming back to DW after our December trip.   

Its like flying Spirit Airlines anymore.


----------



## TwoMisfits

JakeAZ said:


> Yep. Why give away food, when you can give away air?



Amen - it's probably the end of free dining, especially b/c the "value" for a family of 4 per day can rival that past offer.  $25/ride * 2 plus $15/person is a $65 value/person or $260 "free" product per room PER DAY for a family of 4 for each night of their stay (minimum 4 day park hopper tickets with a 5 day stay at full rack rate at deluxe resorts, of course)...


----------



## Poor Gail

The one and only plus to this is that, depending on the minimum price for the E Tickets, I can pick a day with low crowds and finally see Rise of the Resistance.  I've followed every guide I can find and I've never made it into the virtual line.

ETA: This depends, of course, on if you have to pay the $15 to activate the Genie+ system to make use of the individual ride system.  I wouldn't put it past them to double charge us for that.


----------



## Lashed34

I've just watched the video with Gary "get involved" and OMG don't they just cover their new idea in glitter and unicorns - when really they're asking you for more hard earned cash!

Nice one Gary.


----------



## dis_guy

tehSAC said:


> Ugh, this crap is why my family and I won't be coming back to DW after our December trip.
> 
> Its like flying Spirit Airlines anymore.



More like Spirit Airlines  service at first class+ prices.


----------



## nickg420

eleven24 said:


> $20 for no wait bathroom lines


For that "John Wayne" TP they have in most of the restrooms? No way....


----------



## Jothmas

Poor Gail said:


> The one and only plus to this is that, depending on the minimum price for the E Tickets, I can pick a day with low crowds and finally see Rise of the Resistance.  I've followed every guide I can find and I've never made it into the virtual line.


I wish RotR were just pay per ride. It would be an efficient way to reallocate the availability so that frequent guests would end up riding less often and guests who visit once every several years would have more opportunity to ride at least once.


----------



## Opie100

TangledHairDon'tCare said:


> Why would you arrive at 5-6am?


Because "lightning passes" are first come, first served, so if you want to do a tier 1 or 2 attraction you will need to get there early before they sell out, just like ROTR today.


----------



## serenitygr

eleven24 said:


> Soon coming to Disney Genie:
> 
> * $15 per person for front row parade viewing
> * $25 per person for hub area in front of castle during fireworks.  Main Street viewing $15.
> * Super Quick Service food line: $10 per person and no wait for your food!
> * Ride seat selection priority.  $7 per person per seat in front row/car.  $5 in back.
> * $5 per person per entire trip water mister access
> * $20 per day prime stroller parking area access
> * $50 per day stroller+ access (includes cast member wipe down of stroller after rain and valet service)
> * $10 per day for "express walking lane access" throughout park
> * $1971 per person per trip for Walt+ package including all of the above, plus a limited edition souvenir refillable cup**
> 
> ** refillable cup locations temporarily closed due to COVID.


Sign me up for the express walking path!! Best deal of a lifetime!!


----------



## Delta77

Is this new system a complete "nope" for late risers?

Sorry if this has been covered, but I'm the opposite of an early bird, and the previous fastpass system was great for me, I could book my fastpasses for later in the day in advance, and get to the parks late morning.

But this new Genie+ system looks like it will be of very little use to the late risers like myself. If I can't book the "lightning line" until day of, by the time I get to the parks I'm guessing the available times won't be till much later on, and as you can only hold one at a time, it doesn't seem like it will be worth it at all. So I'll just have to do standby. 

Am I understanding that correctly, or have I got things wrong? There's been a lot written about this already and I'm atill ploughing through it all!


----------



## Jadyreen1282

tehSAC said:


> Ugh, this crap is why my family and I won't be coming back to DW after our December trip.
> 
> Its like flying Spirit Airlines anymore.



I love Spirit Airlines...they are so courteous, clean, fun, on time and ....I just can't keep a straight face here.


----------



## DSLRuser

keep in mind......TRON and the new Guardians ride will also be Pay Per Ride........so the opportunity for Disney to get an additional $65 per person per day is real.

$150 for a park hopper + $15 for Genie + $10 a ride for E tickets (tron, remey, rise, 7 drarfs, guardians) = $50

$215 a day to go to a park now


----------



## Opie100

Delta77 said:


> Is this new system a complete "nope" for late risers?
> 
> Sorry if this has been covered, but I'm the opposite of an early bird, and the previous fastpass system was great for me, I could book my fastpasses for later in the day in advance, and get to the parks late morning.
> 
> But this new Genie+ system looks like it will be of very little use to the late risers like myself. If I can't book the "lightning line" until day of, by the time I get to the parks I'm guessing the available times won't be till much later on, and as you can only hold one at a time, it doesn't seem like it will be worth it at all. So I'll just have to do standby.
> 
> Am I understanding that correctly, or have I got things wrong? There's been a lot written about this already and I'm atill ploughing through it all!


This is correct. Question is if we can book/buy lightning passes from the hotel or not.


----------



## TangledHairDon'tCare

Opie100 said:


> Because "lightning passes" are first come, first served, so if you want to do a tier 1 or 2 attraction you will need to get there early before they sell out, just like ROTR today.


You don’t need to be at the park at 7am for genie+ or ROTR.

and even if you did, not sure why you would have to be there between 5-6am.


----------



## Lashed34

Opie100 said:


> This is correct. Question is if we can book/buy lightning passes from the hotel or not.


As long as you pay $25 for a hotel connection to your phone....probably....possibly coming soon....or not at all, but we wouldn't be suprised if it did!


----------



## PixieT78

I love the Max-pass type feature of the Lightening Lane.  I'm extremely annoyed that it does not include the big rides.  That pretty much means in our 10 day trip, we'll likely only be able to do those headliners once, since we'll definitely be paying for Lightening Lane for all other days.  I am glad there are still going to be options for virtual queue but we'll see what that ultimately looks like.

I dunno...I feel like we'll still see lots of rides "sell out" too fast even for the regular Lightening Lane though.  Our trip to WDW isn't for a year though so I'll have lots of time to scour everyone's trip reports and learn how to do this.  Hopefully it works better on my phone than MDE for Disneyland though as I never did get that to work for me when prepping for our March 2020 trip that never happened.

This was already going to be one of our last WDW trips and this definitely doesn't help change that.  I'm sure we'll go again at some point but that is one of the reasons we are doing an extended trip in 2022.


----------



## Opie100

TangledHairDon'tCare said:


> You don’t need to be at the park at 7am for genie+ or ROTR.
> 
> and even if you did, not sure why you would have to be there between 5-6am.


The way Genie+ is advertised is that getting Lightning Passes is first come, first served, and cannot be done in advance. That means that those who arrive to the park late may not get the attraction they wish to attend.


----------



## TangledHairDon'tCare

Opie100 said:


> This is correct. Question is if we can book/buy lightning passes from the hotel or not.


Yes, you can.  On-site guests can book both starting at 7am.  Offsite guests can book genie+ at 7am and tier 1 attractions when they arrive at the park.


----------



## 5DisneyNuts

DSLRuser said:


> keep in mind......TRON and the new Guardians ride will also be Pay Per Ride........so the opportunity for Disney to get an additional $65 per person per day is real.
> 
> $150 for a park hopper + $15 for Genie + $10 a ride for E tickets (tron, remey, rise, 7 drarfs, guardians) = $50
> 
> $215 a day to go to a park now



From the knowledgeable speculation, those rides will be priced much higher than $10 each.


----------



## TangledHairDon'tCare

Opie100 said:


> The way Genie+ is advertised is that getting Lightning Passes is first come, first served, and cannot be done in advance. That means that those who arrive to the park late may not get the attraction they wish to attend.


Correct.  Unless the park starts opening between 5-6am, I’m still not sure why you think you need to be there at that time.


----------



## Amore Disney

Honestly my biggest question is: with the extra dough they make off Genie+, will Disney fix the disco yeti or...?


----------



## Opie100

TangledHairDon'tCare said:


> Correct.  Unless the park starts opening between 5-6am, I’m still not sure why you think you need to be there at that time.


That will depend on where in the park you need to be in order to request the Lightning Pass. When ROTR was in its first few months, you had to be at the park before opening to have a chance. That's why.


----------



## Dave006

DSLRuser said:


> keep in mind......TRON and the new Guardians ride will also be Pay Per Ride........


No expect the Tron ride and Guardians coaster to be Virtual Queue rides with an option for limited number of individual time reservations just like RoTR and Remy.

Dave


----------



## JakeAZ

Poor Gail said:


> ETA: This depends, of course, on if you have to pay the $15 to activate the Genie+ system to make use of the individual ride system. I wouldn't put it past them to double charge us for that.


As of now, that's not the case.  But check back in 10/15 minutes.


----------



## cdurham1

It looked like on the video that the estimated wait time in Genie just tells you that it is longer or shorter than usual.  Did anyone see that?  I think that could be a good thing for Touring Plans as people might want a more quantitative answer.


----------



## JakeAZ

5DisneyNuts said:


> From the knowledgeable speculation, those rides will be priced much higher than $10 each.


Agree.

If anyone thinks they are going to get their family of 4 onto ROTR for less than $100, they are in for disappointment.


----------



## Turksmom

Opie100 said:


> The way Genie+ is advertised is that getting Lightning Passes is first come, first served, and cannot be done in advance. That means that those who arrive to the park late may not get the attraction they wish to attend.


You can book the first Genie+ lightning pass at 7am. You can't book another one until that is used, so no reason to arrive that early. The extra paid attraction (tier one) passes can be booked at 7am, if you are staying at a Disney resort. If you are staying anywhere else, you can't book them until you are in the park, but you will not be allowed in until regular opening.


----------



## JoJoGirl

Hope that the Genie+ daily fee can be paid in advance, and not just at 7:00 am day-of.     Between boarding groups, LL$, and Genie+ scheduling, 7:00 am is going to be crazy!


----------



## TangledHairDon'tCare

JakeAZ said:


> Agree.
> 
> If anyone thinks they are going to get their family of 4 onto ROTR for less than $100, they are in for disappointment.


Not really since they could still try for a boarding group just like they do now.


----------



## Opie100

Turksmom said:


> You can book the first Genie+ lightning pass at 7am. You can't book another one until that is used, so no reason to arrive that early. The extra paid attraction (tier one) passes can be booked at 7am, if you are staying at a Disney resort. If you are staying anywhere else, you can't book them until you are in the park, but you will not be allowed in until regular opening.


Let's say you wish to do more than one LP attraction using your Genie+ (which I assume will be the case for all Genie+ guests) -- it sounds like you'll have to get an early time for the first one or you will be out of luck. That's the reason to arrive early. I'm hoping you're right that they can be booked from the hotel.


----------



## TangledHairDon'tCare

Opie100 said:


> That will depend on where in the park you need to be in order to request the Lightning Pass. When ROTR was in its first few months, you had to be at the park before opening to have a chance. That's why.


Ok then, I guess if the park starts opening at 6am and you’re staying off site, you might start having to arrive between 5-6am.


----------



## Delirium

My wife and I honestly looked forward to experiencing Disney trips every couple of years, not only now when the kids are still at home, but after they left home, and even further down the road, after we retired.  We used to talk about it all the time.  Now, neither one of us has any desire whatsoever to go.  It's no longer for us.  

That's a shame.


----------



## JakeAZ

Free Genie will be helpful (maybe) on slower days.  It could help you with less crisscrossing of the parks.  But what could it possibly do on crowded days, when you'll need the most help?  When all standby lines are running over an hour, there isn't much the Genie could do except "turn right, find that wall...pay $15pp per day to bang head against wall."

Seriously though...on super crowded days (you know October 1st - the end of 2021), it's just going to steer you towards the most unpopular stuff in the parks as a crowd control measure.


----------



## Jennasis

The 7am thing doesn't bother me any more than having to wake up at 6:59 60 days before my trip to book those hard to get FP's.  The goal posts have just been moved is all.  From 60 days to day of.  I'm actually okay with that.

I don't like this extra cost.  I would ALMOST be okay with paying for tier one's on a only one time per dsay and only two tier 1 rides per park thing IF the original Genie was at least free.  Or free with WDW resort stays.


----------



## JakeAZ

TangledHairDon'tCare said:


> Not really since they could still try for a boarding group just like they do now.


Well yes.  I was referring to the comment about pricing for rides like that.


----------



## Opie100

Jennasis said:


> The 7am thing doesn't bother me any more than having to wake up at 6:59 60 days before my trip to book those hard to get FP's.  The goal posts have just been moved is all.  From 60 days to day of.  I'm actually okay with that.


Except that before you were able to book multiple FPs. Now, you may get one, maybe two if you're lucky. And you're up every day doing it.


----------



## JakeAZ

Jennasis said:


> From 60 days to day of. I'm actually okay with that


Every "day of" your trip


----------



## RoseGold

JakeAZ said:


> More than likely there will be a small fee to opt out of Genie on days you are not at the parks, but on property. I’m betting it’s around $15pp per non park day.



What are you doing at the pool???!!!!  Genie said you were supposed to buy a ticket to the water park and buy a Mickey bar.  Would you like a T-shirt?


----------



## condorthb

DSLRuser said:


> keep in mind......TRON and the new Guardians ride will also be Pay Per Ride........so the opportunity for Disney to get an additional $65 per person per day is real.
> 
> $150 for a park hopper + $15 for Genie + $10 a ride for E tickets (tron, remey, rise, 7 drarfs, guardians) = $50
> 
> $215 a day to go to a park now


I think you only get to pick 2 of those a day. not all 5.


----------



## Opie100

TangledHairDon'tCare said:


> Ok then, I guess if the park starts opening at 6am and you’re staying off site, you might start having to arrive between 5-6am.


We are assuming that Genie+ LPs can be booked from your room. That was not the case in the months following ROTR opening. If that is allowed it will help, but it won't change the fact that if your assigned ride time isn't until the afternoon you will have no other LPs for Tier 2 attractions before then.

There is no way around it -- the way the FP+ system was prior to COVID is better for planners than this announced way, by a very substantial margin (both financially and in terms of ability to get in more attractions in the same amount of time).


----------



## DSLRuser

condorthb said:


> I think you only get to pick 2 of those a day. not all 5.



so you will be forced to wait in hour plus stand by lines.   hate this more and more as I dive into it


----------



## DSLRuser

Opie100 said:


> Except that before you were able to book multiple FPs. Now, you may get one, maybe two if you're lucky. And you're up every day doing it.



and the awesome 15-30 min stand by lines we have loved the last year or so will all go back to an hour plus.


----------



## 3LittleMouses

So if I am reading this correctly the Genie + is the old paper fast pass with  a fee and minus some headline attractions?  does it list the attractions which will not be part of the Genie+?


----------



## Turksmom

Opie100 said:


> We are assuming that Genie+ LPs can be booked from your room. That was not the case in the months following ROTR opening. If that is allowed it will help, but it won't change the fact that if your assigned ride time isn't until the afternoon you will have no other LPs for Tier 2 attractions before then.


Well, I think it's safe to assume you can book it from your room, as the parks are not open at 7am.


----------



## JakeAZ

3LittleMouses said:


> So if I am reading this correctly the Genie + is the old paper fast pass with  a fee and minus some headline attractions?  does it list the attractions which will not be part of the Genie+?


Kinda.  It remains to be seen if you'll be able to get another pass, after a period of time, before using the current pass.  Yes, you'll be able to see what is and isn't included one it's fully launched.


----------



## deedeetoo

After reading about Genie+ we priced out how much we can get for selling our DVC. It’s gone up quite a bit since we purchased it so we would make s nice profit. We‘ll wait to see how this actually plays out before listing but we are starting to think about it and hadn’t before.


----------



## JakeAZ

deedeetoo said:


> After reading about Genie+ we priced out how much we can get for selling our DVC. It’s gone up quite a bit since we purchased it so we would make s nice profit. We‘ll wait to see how this actually plays out before listing but we are starting to think about it and hadn’t before.


Genie would be happy to list it for you.  It's $15pp per day


----------



## Opie100

Turksmom said:


> Well, I think it's safe to assume you can book it from your room, as the parks are not open at 7am.


I hope so -- but ROTR wasn't that way in the first six months after opening at WDW. You had to be past the turnstyles. Instead, the park started opening at 6am.


----------



## poetz

You can book it from your room unless you're trying to hit the early resort entry at a park that opens at 8. Then you'll have to book from the bus or the mass of people at the gate waiting to get in for 7:30.


----------



## jim01

JakeAZ said:


> Free Genie will be helpful (maybe) on slower days.  It could help you with less crisscrossing of the parks.  But what could it possibly do on crowded days, when you'll need the most help?  When all standby lines are running over an hour, there isn't much the Genie could do except "turn right, find that wall...pay $15pp per day to bang head against wall."
> 
> Seriously though...on super crowded days (you know October 1st - the end of 2021), it's just going to steer you towards the most unpopular stuff in the parks as a crowd control measure.


If everything is crowed it will probably send you some where like Tom Sawyer's island, Rafiki or any place that is less crowded even though it might not be something you really want to do.


----------



## JakeAZ

jim01 said:


> If everything is crowed it will probably send you some where like Tom Sawyer's island, Rafiki or any place that is less crowded even though it might not be something you really want to do.


I used to enjoy the parking lot tram when I was a kid.  I wonder if Genie will already know this or if I'll have to tell him.


----------



## Opie100

The beauty of the pre-COVID era was that you could set everything up from home before arrival for your entire trip, and leave your phone in your pocket unless you were taking a picture (wearing the wristbands). Now, you'll be more immersed in your phone than in the park, and spending more time in lines and for higher cost.


----------



## Hitchhiking Ghost

Sadly I haven't been on these boards pre-Covid, when I had my April 2020 trip cancelled, which would have been first time staying Deluxe (Beach Club).  Anyhow, started seeing some Facebook stories on Disney's Genie+ and I knew this would be THE forum to go to, to get an initial take on the new system.  From the comments I'm reading, it is what I thought, its being received with great skeptism.  I guess the one good thing is, I no longer have to make Dining reservations 180 days out and then at the 60 day mark coordinate my fast pass selections with existing dining reservations.  I've always been a proponent of staying on property, we love the experience.  But is it getting to or has it finally crossed that line where staying on property is really no longer worth it?  Extended hours are basically gone, no Magical Express, pay a resort fee to have a car, no extended hours, just seems like all the perks of staying on property are slowly going away, and Genie+ seems to fit right into that trend.  

Feels good to be back on the Board.


----------



## Lashed34

jim01 said:


> If everything is crowed it will probably send you some where like Tom Sawyer's island, Rafiki or any place that is less crowded even though it might not be something you really want to do.


Genie suggests going to the smokers area, outside the main entrance of the park...it is currently empty.


----------



## Hitchhiking Ghost

jim01 said:


> If everything is crowed it will probably send you some where like Tom Sawyer's island, Rafiki or any place that is less crowded even though it might not be something you really want to do.


Maybe I'm just being a cynic, but I'll lay odds it will direct you to a souvenir shop!


----------



## JakeAZ

Hitchhiking Ghost said:


> Sadly I haven't been on these boards pre-Covid, when I had my April 2020 trip cancelled, which would have been first time staying Deluxe (Beach Club).  Anyhow, started seeing some Facebook stories on Disney's Genie+ and I knew this would be THE forum to go to, to get an initial take on the new system.  From the comments I'm reading, it is what I thought, its being received with great skeptism.  I guess the one good thing is, I no longer have to make Dining reservations 180 days out and then at the 60 day mark coordinate my fast pass selections with existing dining reservations.  I've always been a proponent of staying on property, we love the experience.  But is it getting to or has it finally crossed that line where staying on property is really no longer worth it?  Extended hours are basically gone, no Magical Express, pay a resort fee to have a car, no extended hours, just seems like all the perks of staying on property are slowly going away, and Genie+ seems to fit right into that trend.
> 
> Feels good to be back on the Board.


We had an April 2020 trip also, but I remained on these boards.

You stayed away and summed up 100s of threads and 100s of 1000s of posts since April 2020, with one paragraph!


----------



## elgerber

Hitchhiking Ghost said:


> Maybe I'm just being a cynic, but I'll lay odds it will direct you to a souvenir shop!


Ha, I spend plenty of time there anyway LOL.


----------



## RoseGold

jim01 said:


> If everything is crowed it will probably send you some where like Tom Sawyer's island, Rafiki or any place that is less crowded even though it might not be something you really want to do.



Why on earth would it do that?  The bakery is right there, and you need a snack.


----------



## Disneytrippin'

Here you go....live.


----------



## TangledHairDon'tCare

Opie100 said:


> The beauty of the pre-COVID era was that you could set everything up from home before arrival for your entire trip, and leave your phone in your pocket unless you were taking a picture (wearing the wristbands). Now, you'll be more immersed in your phone than in the park, and spending more time in lines and for higher cost.


I’m really surprised to hear you didn’t use your phone in the parks before.  No extra FPs after you used your first three?  No mobile ordering?  No checking wait times/show times in the app?  You could still keep your phone in your pocket and not purchase genie+.  Nobody is forcing this on you.


----------



## DoryGirl1963

TangledHairDon'tCare said:


> I’m really surprised to hear you didn’t use your phone in the parks before.  No extra FPs after you used your first three?  No mobile ordering?  No checking wait times/show times in the app?  You could still keep your phone in your pocket and not purchase genie+.  Nobody is forcing this on you.



I never even took my cell phone into the parks - showtimes are listed on the park map insert (the paper ones) - only used the 3 FPs I booked & just did standby otherwise or skipped it - no mobile ordering - it was wonderful


----------



## Lurch

JakeAZ said:


> No judgement, but I'm legitimately curious.  What would be your breaking point for on-site?  Another 20% increase next year?  Another one after that?  Removal of the early / PM hours?  I'm trying to come up with other things they can take away, but none are coming to me.
> 
> Or, is it you, like many many others, just prefer the bubble and if you can afford it, you'll pay it?
> 
> I get the bubble preference.  I really do.
> 
> But for me, the bubble was always just an ancillary thing to the tangible benefits.
> 
> I'm interested in hearing from the other side of my point of view.




We owned DVC at Boardwalk and Boulder Ridge.  Sold all our contracts October 2019 due to the loss of onsite benefits and reduction in experience BEFORE COVID except a small 50 point one at BR just to retain any legacy perks.  Ended up buying a house in the area instead.  Since Covid, we purchased Universal annual passes for the first time and we keep saying that Universal today is like how Disney was before. We feel appreciated there and just a revenue center to Disney.  I recently renewed our Disney AP's, but I don't think I'll renew them next year at this point.  It seems like we are being squeezed for even more money and they are delivering much less (fireworks, parades, basically everything!).  I hope these new changes will be awesome and I was totally wrong about it, but I doubt it.  I just visit US more often and enjoy the afternoon free fastpass that comes with our APs.  Disney had to work to destroy my loyalty and now they have to compete for it with other parks and attractions.  Not only is the park experience better currently at US, but the food is better and less expensive as well.  At this point I wish we bought our home in Lake Mary rather than Champions Gate so were are closer to US.


----------



## dkostel

TheDailyMoo said:


> I think the most deplorable part of not only this but all the "more money, less product" that's been coming on strong lately is that it's basically using COVID as the excuse.  They've always wanted to do this but in an alternate timeline where there was never any COVID, there is no way we're where we are right now.
> 
> In that other timeline August 2021 we still have Magical Express...regular ol Fast Pass...Disney Dining...all the shows and parades...etc etc.
> 
> As a shareholder, this is the kind of garbage that makes me root for it to crash back down just to teach the executives with stock options a lesson...starting with Iger


Not necessarily true - they started entertainment cuts before Covid was a thing. Buridika was gone way before Covid. Covid made it easier but blind cash grab was Chapek's plan all along.


----------



## TangledHairDon'tCare

DoryGirl1963 said:


> I never even took my cell phone into the parks - showtimes are listed on the park map insert (the paper ones)





DoryGirl1963 said:


> I never even took my cell phone into the parks - showtimes are listed on the park map insert (the paper ones) - only used the 3 FPs I booked & just did standby otherwise or skipped it - no mobile ordering - it was wonderful


If that’s true, then Genie+ doesn’t seem right for your and your touring style!  I would skip it for sure.


----------



## Opie100

TangledHairDon'tCare said:


> I’m really surprised to hear you didn’t use your phone in the parks before.  No extra FPs after you used your first three?  No mobile ordering?  No checking wait times/show times in the app?  You could still keep your phone in your pocket and not purchase genie+.  Nobody is forcing this on you.


We did occasionally add FPs but not every day. I didn't do mobile ordering. I occasionally might check wait times, but we already had our plan so didn't need to. The point you're missing is that those of us who followed Disney's instructions and planned ahead got to do most of what we wanted with limited standby lines. Now, there's no guarantee we'll be able to do anything we want without standby lines, even if we buy Genie+. And we won't even know until that day. That's a big step back for many which isn't solved by avoiding Genie+.


----------



## JakeAZ

Let's all remember...on crowded days...the more guests who use Genie+ will mean a worse experience for guests but a windfall for Disney.


----------



## deltadisney

Any word on whether Genie+ and/or paid selection times will be cut-off during the early morning/evening hours for resort/deluxe guests?  Certainly, it would just be stand-by for those, wouldn't you think?


----------



## Hitchhiking Ghost

JakeAZ said:


> We had an April 2020 trip also, but I remained on these boards.
> 
> You stayed away and summed up 100s of threads and 100s of 1000s of posts since April 2020, with one paragraph!


I think between Covid hangover and Disney Depression, I just sort of checked out of the Disney forums for a while.  Now that we are toying with a 2022 trip, figured it was maybe time to get back in the game.


----------



## JakeAZ

Hitchhiking Ghost said:


> I think between Covid hangover and Disney Depression, I just sort of checked out of the Disney forums for a while.  Now that we are toying with a 2022 trip, figured it was maybe time to get back in the game.


As you can see...you didn't miss much!


----------



## Queen2PrincessG

RoseGold said:


> Why on earth would it do that?  The bakery is right there, and you need a snack.


I can’t wait till there’s a hologram of Walt that pops out of your phone and tells you what to do.


----------



## Airb330

Turksmom said:


> Well, I think it's safe to assume you can book it from your room, as the parks are not open at 7am.





Opie100 said:


> Except that before you were able to book multiple FPs. *Now, you may get one, maybe two if you're lucky. And you're up every day doing it.*



Exactly, if you previously got up at 9AM, went to the pool, then went to the parks now you can no longer guarantee 3 decent rides like you could with FP+. *I would rather the FP+ system be monetized versus Genie+. *Change 60 days to 14 even. The "leveling of the playing field" always means us Disboard/AP/DVC guests get less and less for more money. Sure I can get up at 9AM, go to the parks at 2PM, _MAYBE _get 1-5 Tier 2 rides in with Genie+ and _MAYBE _get the chance to pay $10-$20 to ride space mountain? That is a worse experience and that 'best case ' Genie+ scenario would cost probably $25 a person at minimum. They should have raised ticket rates to cover the $15, kept FP+, and anything past 3 FP+ costs money.


----------



## TangledHairDon'tCare

Airb330 said:


> Exactly, if you previously got up at 9AM, went to the pool, then went to the parks now you can no longer guarantee 3 decent rides like you could with FP+. *I would rather the FP+ system be monetized versus Genie+. *Change 60 days to 14 even. The "leveling of the playing field" always means us Disboard/AP/DVC guests get less and less for more money. Sure I can get up at 9AM, go to the parks at 2PM, _MAYBE _get 1-5 Tier 2 rides in with Genie+ and _MAYBE _get the chance to pay $10-$20 to ride space mountain? That is a worse experience and that 'best case ' Genie+ scenario would cost probably $25 a person at minimum. They should have raised ticket rates to cover the $15, kept FP+, and anything past 3 FP+ costs money.


You could also go to the parks at 2pm and maybe ride 3-5 tier 2 rides with minimal waits and ride a tier 1 ride at closing with a minimal wait and for free.  

Why are so many people on this board inclined to believe the worst case scenario right off the bat, without any real world experience?


----------



## HopperFan

3LittleMouses said:


> So if I am reading this correctly the Genie + is the old paper fast pass with  a fee and minus some headline attractions?  *does it list the attractions which will not be part of the Genie+?*



*RUMOR* is ...

7DMT and Space Mountain
Remy and Test Track
Rise of Resistance and Slinky Dog
Flight of Passage and Safari

No doubt Guardians and Tron will be added or replace two.


----------



## Farro

You guys have to admit, it's slightly amusing to see a lot of people putting fast pass plus on a pedestal as the greatest of all time, yet when it was first introduced it was pretty much going to be the downfall of Disney on these boards.


----------



## luv2cheer92

TangledHairDon'tCare said:


> You could also go to the parks at 2pm and maybe ride 3-5 tier 2 rides with minimal waits and ride a tier 1 ride at closing with a minimal wait and for free.
> 
> Why are so many people on this board inclined to believe the worst case scenario right off the bat, without any real world experience?


Because that's what people on here do haha


----------



## luv2cheer92

Farro said:


> You guys have to admit, it's slightly amusing to see a lot of people putting fast pass plus on a pedestal as the greatest of all time, yet when it was first introduced it was pretty much going to be the downfall of Disney on these boards.


Yup. Or even like a month ago when some people were wanting "some kind of FP system, but not FP+"


----------



## Lsdolphin

Skippyboo said:


> I would guess Navi River Journey would be the other one. The 2 Pandora rides were both Tier 1 FP in the before times.



Safari


----------



## cdurham1

I wonder if this will make rope dropping one tier 2 attraction even more important than it is now.  My fear would be you put off grabbing your first LL for Splash Mountain, for example, bc it is popular and the first time you can grab is 11am.  So, you do something else bc you don't want that "dead time" of no LL between park open and 11am.  So you grab a 9:30 for HM, instead, let's say.  But every time you are eligible to get another LL, you find Splash Mountain even further in the future.  Fearing all the dead time, you just keep grabbing other ones and never end up doing Splash Mountain.  What do you think?


----------



## Cabius

Lsdolphin said:


> Safari


I don't think Safari will be a tier 1 up-charge. They need that Lightning Lane in heavy use to ease up traffic congestion.

Without the Fastpass queue running, the line for Kilimanjaro Safaris currently snakes through the park all the way back to Festival of the Lion King, and even into ugly backstage areas (you literally walk past, like, power transformers and loading docks). That's with a 45-minute queue, which Disney posts as a 75-minute wait to discourage guests from getting in line. Without using both physical queues, it's totally unmanageable, interfering with park operations and giving guests a bad show.

They need to put a lot of that crowd through the Lightning Lane queue to solve that crowd control problem, and the volume of guests who would pay $12/person won't make the difference they need.


----------



## KrzyKtty101

Airb330 said:


> Exactly, if you previously got up at 9AM, went to the pool, then went to the parks now you can no longer guarantee 3 decent rides like you could with FP+. *I would rather the FP+ system be monetized versus Genie+. *Change 60 days to 14 even. The "leveling of the playing field" always means us Disboard/AP/DVC guests get less and less for more money. Sure I can get up at 9AM, go to the parks at 2PM, _MAYBE _get 1-5 Tier 2 rides in with Genie+ and _MAYBE _get the chance to pay $10-$20 to ride space mountain? That is a worse experience and that 'best case ' Genie+ scenario would cost probably $25 a person at minimum. They should have raised ticket rates to cover the $15, kept FP+, and anything past 3 FP+ costs money.


I don't know. It was pretty easy to get upwards of 5 or 6 fast passes a day while at Disneyland using the max pass system. And the lightning lane system through Genie+ is going to be somewhat based on that model. Well it is not confirmed yet, multiple sources are saying they anticipate that you will have either the 90 minute or 2 hour wait window. So for example a decent plan would be to Wake up at 7:00 a.m. and grab a fast pass for a heavy hitter ride even if it's later in the day; let's say you got one for Splash mountain at 2:00 p.m. Then get to the park early at rope drop and ride quite a few rides with the standby line with lower wait times. Within 90 minutes to 2 hours, your Genie Plus lightning Lane availability will open up again, even if your lightning lane time slot for Splash mountain has not come up yet. So if the wait time is 2 hours, maybe you grab another pass at 9:00 a.m. for a different ride. It's pass is 11:30. You go on that ride at 11:30 and get another pass for another ride. By the time 2:00 is come and gone you've already used three passes.

No I did stipulate I do not think it has been 100% confirmed that this is in the system, I have heard from a few different sources they believe something like this will be integrated. We will probably know more as we go.


----------



## mickeymom629

I'm so glad my kids are now older (with little ones of their own).  We enjoyed Disney for the past 30 years.  We are DVC owners so DH and I will still go and we have tickets we haven't used (including APs).

I am not a thrill ride person so this announcement mostly disappoints me.   I do not plan to spend more (but I shouldn't say I won't)  to ride what I do enjoy riding and will try to strategize my park days the way I always have to limit wait times.

It will be curious how this pans out and how it will affect crowd levels.


----------



## KrzyKtty101

HopperFan said:


> *RUMOR* is ...
> 
> 7DMT and Space Mountain
> Remy and Test Track
> Rise of Resistance and Slinky Dog
> Flight of Passage and Safari
> 
> No doubt Guardians and Tron will be added or replace two.


I do estimate that space mountain will not be as inundated once Tron opens. Especially because they're going to be somewhat close together. Replacing space mountain with Tron might make sense. The same might happen with test track and guardians.


----------



## Airb330

TangledHairDon'tCare said:


> Why are so many people on this board inclined to believe the worst case scenario right off the bat, without any real world experience?


The same reason other people are extremely optimistic about anything Disney does. It’s the nature of any discussion board I suppose. To @Farro ‘s point, I thought FP+ was going to be bad and I loved it; it fit my touring style.


----------



## luv2cheer92

Cabius said:


> I don't think Safari will be a tier 1 up-charge. They need that Lightning Lane in heavy use to ease up traffic congestion.
> 
> Without the Fastpass queue running, the line for Kilimanjaro Safaris currently snakes through the park all the way back to Festival of the Lion King, and even into ugly backstage areas (you literally walk past, like, power transformers and loading docks). That's with a 45-minute queue, which Disney posts as a 75-minute wait to discourage guests from getting in line. Without using both physical queues, it's totally unmanageable, interfering with park operations and giving guests a bad show.
> 
> They need to put a lot of that crowd through the Lightning Lane queue to solve that crowd control problem, and the volume of guests who would pay $12/person won't make the difference they need.


Of course nobody knows yet. But Safari is what people who leaked all this info a few weeks ago have proposed as being an upcharge ride.


----------



## Jimmy Mouse

The whole Genie mess makes me sick. We purchased DVC because WDW is fun and we wanted it to be stress free. Now that we have gone to Universal twice, we regret our DVC purchase. UO just does things better. Free unlimited Express Pass when staying at HRH just cannot be beat. Over all, the whole UO vacation is easier and has great rides, resorts and restaurants.


----------



## CT Disney

So I’m up to date on the Genie threads on the Rumors & News Board but way behind on this thread…so not sure this has been discussed yet:

Can we please discuss the names Disney chose??

*Lightning Lane*

• My first thought is that Disney set an expectation they can’t possibly meet. I’ve never seen a fast pass line move at lightning speed.

• Lightning Lane lends itself to an easy Disboards acronym (LL) but how are we going to use it in real life while we’re in the parks? “I’m gonna grab a Lightning Lane?” “I’m gonna grab a Lightning Lane Pass?” Doesn’t exactly roll off the tongue. I liked FastPass way better.

*Genie*

If I remember the movie Aladdin correctly, Genie was a character bound to servitude, a character that didn’t even dare to dream of his own freedom.

"But oh, to be free. Not have to go poof! What do you need? Poof! What do you need? Poof! What do you need?”

Sure the genie will grant you your wishes…but not because he wants to, because he has to.

All this to say, I would have picked something different.


----------



## TangledHairDon'tCare

Airb330 said:


> The same reason other people are extremely optimistic about anything Disney does. It’s the nature of any discussion board I suppose. To @Farro ‘s point, I thought FP+ was going to be bad and I loved it; it fit my touring style.


Where are the optimists?  I haven’t seen them!


----------



## Lashed34

TangledHairDon'tCare said:


> Where are the optimists?  I haven’t seen them!


Optermising their exposure on here...somewhere where they feel safe.


----------



## luv2cheer92

TangledHairDon'tCare said:


> Where are the optimists?  I haven’t seen them!


 there are several of us!


----------



## Farro

TangledHairDon'tCare said:


> Where are the optimists?  I haven’t seen them!



I'll say I'm a realist about it. 

It's here. It's not going anywhere no matter how much people complain. 

So, I'm going to learn it and use it the best way we can.


----------



## mi*vida*loca

Farro said:


> You guys have to admit, it's slightly amusing to see a lot of people putting fast pass plus on a pedestal as the greatest of all time, yet when it was first introduced it was pretty much going to be the downfall of Disney on these boards.



I loved FP+ from the day it was announced but we didn’t really use legacy FP much due to the running around the parks for them. It was too much with young kids.


----------



## poison ivy

boycott the app at all costs and send a clear message.


----------



## Opie100

TangledHairDon'tCare said:


> You could also go to the parks at 2pm and maybe ride 3-5 tier 2 rides with minimal waits and ride a tier 1 ride at closing with a minimal wait and for free.
> 
> Why are so many people on this board inclined to believe the worst case scenario right off the bat, without any real world experience?


There are things we don't know, such as how many LPs we can actually get with Genie+ on a given day, or how expensive individual LPs will be. But what we know already is that: (a) we can't plan ahead; (b) we aren't guaranteed to avoid standby on favored attractions (as before), and (c) it will cost more. People may be willing to pay more for greater experiences, but unfortunately that's not the case here according to what's advertised.


----------



## brightlined

TangledHairDon'tCare said:


> Where are the optimists?  I haven’t seen them!


I'm pretty much right in the middle. I don't love this idea at face value, but I've been wrong enough before about a few "controversial" things at Disney that I really want to see how it plays out once it's active. 

I thought MaxPass at DL was pretty great for what it was (with a couple of minor criticisms), and, with the exception of the LL attractions, it's pretty much that. (I hope they'll offer an AP add-on for G+ like they did at DL for MaxPass - which I think was $120/year before it was cancelled.)

My takeaway from this thread - I feel like the boon might be for people who don't take Disney trips as seriously and/or don't know the tricks. Like, if you were a noob and went to DHS with the intent of riding ROTR and missed out on both BG drops (if you even knew about them), maybe throwing $20 at it would be completely worth it to you and would be the thing that saved your trip.

I keep thinking about the number of times that I was in a park and had someone randomly ask me what FP+ was (at like 3pm). They figured it was a pay thing and missed out on half of their day. I always hated that people essentially paid for admission and missed out on a lot of stuff, simply because they didn't know. And this might (_might_) help with that.


----------



## JakAHearts

Im curious how the wait times till be shown and separated. Will there be just a standby wait time will the shorter line have a wait time too? If a ton of people are using the service, the times could be similiar, plus there are always times where the stand by and fast pass lines were near the same wait, typically at very slow times or during fireworks shows. I did once beat another group onto a ride through the standby while they used the FP lane.


----------



## brightlined

TangledHairDon'tCare said:


> Where are the optimists?  I haven’t seen them!


The kind of optimism that this board might enjoy:

Chapek has stepped in it enough times in the last year - if this whole thing dies sideways, seems like there's a decent chance he ends up in a Lightning Lane to the exits.


----------



## mi*vida*loca

Why do so many people think you won’t be able to ride anything or have long lines or get no FP?

For us we usually only used our 3 FP+ and standby for everything else. We didn’t refresh much. We never waited more than 20 minutes for anything too. We rode everything we wanted with some things multiple times. And that was with everyone having access to FP. There will be some people who won’t use G+ which frees up some room.


----------



## Skippyboo

brightlined said:


> I'm pretty much right in the middle. I don't love this idea at face value, but I've been wrong enough before about a few "controversial" things at Disney that I really want to see how it plays out once it's active.
> 
> I thought MaxPass at DL was pretty great for what it was (with a couple of minor criticisms), and, with the exception of the LL attractions, it's pretty much that. (I hope they'll offer an AP add-on for G+ like they did at DL for MaxPass - which I think was $120/year before it was cancelled.)
> 
> My takeaway from this thread - I feel like the boon might be for people who don't take Disney trips as seriously and/or don't know the tricks. Like, if you were a noob and went to DHS with the intent of riding ROTR and missed out on both BG drops (if you even knew about them), maybe throwing $20 at it would be completely worth it to you and would be the thing that saved your trip.
> 
> I keep thinking about the number of times that I was in a park and had someone randomly ask me what FP+ was (at like 3pm). They figured it was a pay thing and missed out on half of their day. I always hated that people essentially paid for admission and missed out on a lot of stuff, simply because they didn't know. And this might (_might_) help with that.


Those people probably had their 25 snack credits on their last day to take solace in their lack of FP knowledge


----------



## luv2cheer92

poison ivy said:


> boycott the app at all costs and send a clear message.


Umm no, but thanks.
You do know its part of the MDE app though right?


----------



## TangledHairDon'tCare

brightlined said:


> I'm pretty much right in the middle. I don't love this idea at face value, but I've been wrong enough before about a few "controversial" things at Disney that I really want to see how it plays out once it's active.
> 
> I thought MaxPass at DL was pretty great for what it was (with a couple of minor criticisms), and, with the exception of the LL attractions, it's pretty much that. (I hope they'll offer an AP add-on for G+ like they did at DL for MaxPass - which I think was $120/year before it was cancelled.)
> 
> My takeaway from this thread - I feel like the boon might be for people who don't take Disney trips as seriously and/or don't know the tricks. Like, if you were a noob and went to DHS with the intent of riding ROTR and missed out on both BG drops (if you even knew about them), maybe throwing $20 at it would be completely worth it to you and would be the thing that saved your trip.
> 
> I keep thinking about the number of times that I was in a park and had someone randomly ask me what FP+ was (at like 3pm). They figured it was a pay thing and missed out on half of their day. I always hated that people essentially paid for admission and missed out on a lot of stuff, simply because they didn't know. And this might (_might_) help with that.


I agree that this will help newbs a lot.  I’ve definitely had people ask me about FPs and the app while standing in line at rides.  One time somebody asked me how long the wait was outside CRT and I had to hold back a chuckle!


----------



## RoseGold

If it’s an AP upsell, which I think is a pretty obvious option, we will all be here praising genie and what a deal it was.

There’s a reason genie was announced before the new APs.


----------



## tinkerhon

Ok---   so my head is spinning over the last two days ! Just thankful that our next trip is not until December !!!

So, if I am understanding this correctly---   The Genie+ is $15 PP, Per day (not Tier one--) 

The LL is for Tier 1 (cost to be determined)  - you can purchase up to (2) -- both at 7AM? 

If you just buy one LL, you can book two Genie+ Tier 2? 

And if you purchase two LL (which I wont be doing) , you get 1 Genie + ?

OR.... can you get (3).  Genie + ($15 PP, per day) and not do any LL? 

Hope I didn't confuse everyone !! Sorry !!!


----------



## Lsdolphin

Cabius said:


> I don't think Safari will be a tier 1 up-charge. They need that Lightning Lane in heavy use to ease up traffic congestion.
> 
> Without the Fastpass queue running, the line for Kilimanjaro Safaris currently snakes through the park all the way back to Festival of the Lion King, and even into ugly backstage areas (you literally walk past, like, power transformers and loading docks). That's with a 45-minute queue, which Disney posts as a 75-minute wait to discourage guests from getting in line. Without using both physical queues, it's totally unmanageable, interfering with park operations and giving guests a bad show.
> 
> They need to put a lot of that crowd through the Lightning Lane queue to solve that crowd control problem, and the volume of guests who would pay $12/person won't make the difference they need.



Well I hope you’re correct....


----------



## luv2cheer92

tinkerhon said:


> Ok---   so my head is spinning over the last two days ! Just thankful that our next trip is not until December !!!
> 
> So, if I am understanding this correctly---   The Genie+ is $15 PP, Per day (not Tier one--)
> 
> The LL is for Tier 1 (cost to be determined)  - you can purchase up to (2) -- both at 7AM?
> 
> If you just buy one LL, you can book two Genie+ Tier 2?
> 
> And if you purchase two LL (which I wont be doing) , you get 1 Genie + ?
> 
> OR.... can you get (3).  Genie + ($15 PP, per day) and not do any LL?
> 
> Hope I didn't confuse everyone !! Sorry !!!


You can only get one Genie FP at 7am no matter what and its only one at a time. The upcharge ones have nothing to do with genie+.


----------



## justdoip

Jothmas said:


> I wish RotR were just pay per ride. It would be an efficient way to reallocate the availability so that frequent guests would end up riding less often and guests who visit once every several years would have more opportunity to ride at least once.



I expect it will be pay per ride, for the most part. I think they'll probably allocate the big majority of the ride slots for the day to Genie+ pay per ride system and the remainder of the slots will be available to the virtual queue system they have now. Whatever the balance is that gives them the most revenue. I've seen some suggestions that the majority of slots will go to the virtual queue, but that seems highly unlikely. If they can charge extra for it, they definitely will.


----------



## Turksmom

tinkerhon said:


> Ok---   so my head is spinning over the last two days ! Just thankful that our next trip is not until December !!!
> 
> So, if I am understanding this correctly---   The Genie+ is $15 PP, Per day (not Tier one--)
> 
> The LL is for Tier 1 (cost to be determined)  - you can purchase up to (2) -- both at 7AM?
> 
> If you just buy one LL, you can book two Genie+ Tier 2?
> 
> And if you purchase two LL (which I wont be doing) , you get 1 Genie + ?
> 
> OR.... can you get (3).  Genie + ($15 PP, per day) and not do any LL?
> 
> Hope I didn't confuse everyone !! Sorry !!!


Lightning lane  is the name for the former FP queue. The $15 pp/ per day allows unlimited lightning (fast) pass, but you can only hold one at a time. IAS (Individual Attraction Selections) are priced per ride for specific tier one rides- up to two per day. You do not have to purchase all of them


----------



## Delilah1310

tinkerhon said:


> Ok---   so my head is spinning over the last two days ! Just thankful that our next trip is not until December !!!
> 
> So, if I am understanding this correctly---   The Genie+ is $15 PP, Per day (not Tier one--)
> 
> The LL is for Tier 1 (cost to be determined)  - you can purchase up to (2) -- both at 7AM?
> 
> If you just buy one LL, you can book two Genie+ Tier 2?
> 
> And if you purchase two LL (which I wont be doing) , you get 1 Genie + ?
> 
> OR.... can you get (3).  Genie + ($15 PP, per day) and not do any LL?
> 
> Hope I didn't confuse everyone !! Sorry !!!




I don't think there is a limit on Genie+ ... if buy it for the day, you can use it all day ... maybe for 5 or 6 attractions, however you can work the system of getting one, riding it, getting another, riding that, on and on until the park closes.

It appears that the individual pay attractions are limited to 2 each day ... 1 that you can get as early as 7 am. But there seem to be lots of questions about if you can do the same ride for your second pay attraction, or if your second one can be at a different park.


----------



## tinkerhon

luv2cheer92 said:


> You can only get one Genie FP at 7am no matter what and its only one at a time. The upcharge ones have nothing to do with genie+.



Gotcha -- thanks !!  

So, one G+ and (2) LL----  and then raid the condiment section in the CS restaurants, in order to feed the family !!!  )


----------



## tinkerhon

Delilah1310 said:


> I don't think there is a limit on Genie+ ... if buy it for the day, you can use it all day ... maybe for 5 or 6 attractions, however you can work the system of getting one, riding it, getting another, riding that, on and on until the park closes.
> 
> It appears that the individual pay attractions are limited to 2 each day ... 1 that you can get as early as 7 am. But there seem to be lots of questions about if you can do the same ride for your second pay attraction, or if your second one can be at a different park.



I thought with G+, ($15PP, Per Park day), you get max of (2). tier 2 ??


----------



## pigletto

Ok here’s a question….
If you are still able to try and get a boarding group for Rise of Resistance at 7am, do we think our chances of getting it are greatly reduced because so many spots will be reserved for people paying for it ? 
And is still going to be essentially the same battle at 7am except some people are paying and some people are trying to get it for free ? I mean , they aren’t creating more capacity so it kind of stands to reason nothing is going to change as far as making it easier. Now we just fight to pay ?


----------



## luv2cheer92

tinkerhon said:


> I thought with G+, ($15PP, Per Park day), you get max of (2). tier 2 ??


Genie + is unlimited, the tier 1 is what is limited to two.


----------



## burnurcomputer

7 am is only for resort guests. Other guests will be able to pay and select at park opening.


----------



## Disneylover99

pigletto said:


> Ok here’s a question….
> If you are still able to try and get a boarding group for Rise of Resistance at 7am, do we think our chances of getting it are greatly reduced because so many spots will be reserved for people paying for it ?
> And is still going to be essentially the same battle at 7am except some people are paying and some people are trying to get it for free ? I mean , they aren’t creating more capacity so it kind of stands to reason nothing is going to change as far as making it easier. Now we just fight to pay ?


I would imagine everyone will try to get it for free first, so people won’t be trying to buy it until 2 seconds past 7am. Lol.

I would guess they’ll need to hold a bunch back. Or maybe they just won’t have the virtual 1pm ride release?


----------



## tinkerhon

Turksmom said:


> Lightning lane  is the name for the former FP queue. The $15 pp/ per day allows unlimited lightning (fast) pass, but you can only hold one at a time. IAS (Individual Attraction Selections) are priced per ride for specific tier one rides- up to two per day. You do not have to purchase all of them



Thanks !!! Ok... so, in the case of IAS--- let say its our AK day---  FoP and KS are both tier 1-   
Lets estimate FoP @. $24 , and KS at $15 --  For my family of (3) , we would be looking at  $72 +  $45 =. $117 extra for those two rides?  Uh....... 

I think I also read that you dont have to purchase G+ to purchase IAS (tier 1)  rides ?  Correct ? TIA!


----------



## tinkerhon

luv2cheer92 said:


> Genie + is unlimited, the tier 1 is what is limited to two.



Gotcha-- thanks !!


----------



## luv2cheer92

burnurcomputer said:


> 7 am is only for resort guests. Other guests will be able to pay and select at park opening.


Not for Genie +, everyone can do their first at 7. It's only the upcharge tier 1 rides that are 7 for onsite and park open for offsite.


----------



## pigletto

Disneylover99 said:


> I would imagine everyone will try to get it for free first, so people won’t be trying to buy it until 2 seconds past 7am. Lol.
> 
> I would guess they’ll need to hold a bunch back. Or maybe they just won’t have the virtual 1pm ride release?


It will be interesting to see how that all works . I was just thinking they did mention they would be using surge pricing. But wouldn’t something like ROTR always be at peak pricing then?


----------



## Disneylover99

pigletto said:


> It will be interesting to see how that all works . I was just thinking they did mention they would be using surge pricing. But *wouldn’t something like ROTR always be at peak pricing then?*


I would think so.


----------



## tinkerhon

burnurcomputer said:


> 7 am is only for resort guests. Other guests will be able to pay and select at park opening.



So, lets say you ARE a resort guest--- you wake up at 7AM, and  purchase G+ for $15 (my party of 3 would be $45), and then you try for your selections , and the times are not great, or the rides you wanted are not available---  So, you are stuck having already paid the $15 for that day (PP) ?  Or, do you get to see the available selections and then pay if you choose to? 

And you have to purchase G+ that morning, if you choose to, correct?   Cant do it in advance for all of your park days ?


----------



## Turksmom

tinkerhon said:


> Thanks !!! Ok... so, in the case of IAS--- let say its our AK day---  FoP and KS are both tier 1-
> Lets estimate FoP @. $24 , and KS at $15 --  For my family of (3) , we would be looking at  $72 +  $45 =. $117 extra for those two rides?  Uh.......
> 
> I think I also read that you dont have to purchase G+ to purchase IAS (tier 1)  rides ?  Correct ? TIA!


Correct. There are 5 of us, so please don't tell me how much this is going to cost


----------



## tinkerhon

Turksmom said:


> Correct. There are 5 of us, so please don't tell me how much this is going to cost



Wow--- these trips are taking on a life of their own !!!  

P.S-- Please , if there is a stock God, make the AMC squeeze happen before my trip !!!


----------



## JakeAZ

tinkerhon said:


> So, lets say you ARE a resort guest--- you wake up at 7AM, and purchase G+ for $15 (my party of 3 would be $45), and then you try for your selections , and the times are not great, or the rides you wanted are not available--- So, you are stuck having already paid the $15 for that day (PP) ? Or, do you get to see the available selections and then pay if you choose to?


I believe this was discussed earlier.  Previewing what's available will be $15pp per day.

All kidding aside, I would bet they show what is avaialble at the time with a blacked out (Genie+ only) button.  FOMO for sure.



tinkerhon said:


> And you have to purchase G+ that morning, if you choose to, correct? Cant do it in advance for all of your park days ?


I have no doubt they'd be happy to sell it to you in advance.  It's in their interest to sell it before people realize they may not need it if their day ends up being slow...or raining.  It will 100% be non-refundable.


----------



## tinkerhon

luv2cheer92 said:


> Not for Genie +, everyone can do their first at 7. It's only the upcharge tier 1 rides that are 7 for onsite and park open for offsite.



And for resort guests, you would be able to purchase (2) tier 1 (upcharge rides) at 7AM?   Only the G+ you can only book 1 ?


----------



## poetz

tinkerhon said:


> So, lets say you ARE a resort guest--- you wake up at 7AM, and  purchase G+ for $15 (my party of 3 would be $45), and then you try for your selections , and the times are not great, or the rides you wanted are not available---  So, you are stuck having already paid the $15 for that day (PP) ?  Or, do you get to see the available selections and then pay if you choose to?
> 
> And you have to purchase G+ that morning, if you choose to, correct?   Cant do it in advance for all of your park days ?



If it works anything like MaxPass did, you won't see availability until you pay. Then you pick your ride. Next available works like FP- did. 9:00 window sells out, then 9:10 window sells out, etc...  Because it's basically the old FP ticket machines in electronic format and all in one place. 

I expect for the tier 1 LL, you'll probably see the time available to book before you tap that purchase button.


----------



## CBMom01

mi*vida*loca said:


> We loved having 3 FP+ set up for our arrival day. Now would it even be worth it to show up to a crowded park after our flight. Can I see what G+ has available before I purchase? I would hate to purchase it then find out there’s nothing left.


Totally agree. This has pushed me more firmly into the “park tickets on arrival day are a waste” mindset


----------



## MrWreckless

TangledHairDon'tCare said:


> I’m really surprised to hear you didn’t use your phone in the parks before.  No extra FPs after you used your first three?  No mobile ordering?  No checking wait times/show times in the app?  You could still keep your phone in your pocket and not purchase genie+.  Nobody is forcing this on you.



I rarely used my phone either. I knew the times for our fast passes and everything else was handled with the magic band.  We would wander the parks and use the in park signage to know the wait times.  If we were in world showcase we didn't know the wait time for test track until we made our way into that area.  The entire purpose of going to disney was to leave the outside world, being tethered to a phone ruined it IMO.  Now that I'm planning for our kids I'm sure I'll be on the phone looking at wait times but hopefully I can keep up the care free facade for my wife and sister.


----------



## Turksmom

tinkerhon said:


> And for resort guests, you would be able to purchase (2) tier 1 (upcharge rides) at 7AM?   Only the G+ you can only book 1 ?


You've got it! I'm betting before it launches, they change it again


----------



## tinkerhon

JakeAZ said:


> I believe this was discussed earlier.  Previewing what's available will be $15pp per day.
> 
> All kidding aside, I would bet they show what is avaialble at the time with a blacked out (Genie+ only) button.  FOMO for sure.
> 
> 
> I have no doubt they'd be happy to sell it to you in advance.  It's in their interest to sell it before people realize they may not need it if their day ends up being slow...or raining.  It will 100% be non-refundable.



I really hope you can see whats available prior to purchasing-- before I am so sure that Disney would be so willing to give people a refund if they paid and none of their selections were available ..  (


----------



## TitusPullo

pigletto said:


> Ok here’s a question….
> If you are still able to try and get a boarding group for Rise of Resistance at 7am, do we think our chances of getting it are greatly reduced because so many spots will be reserved for people paying for it ?
> And is still going to be essentially the same battle at 7am except some people are paying and some people are trying to get it for free ? I mean , they aren’t creating more capacity so it kind of stands to reason nothing is going to change as far as making it easier. Now we just fight to pay ?



As you said they aren’t increasing capacity so estimates were around 70% of a given rides capacity was dedicated to FP+ previously so I would assume the free boarding groups will be significantly harder to obtain. 
 I actually think with the exception of ROTR the system is going to work really well.  There are ways to get on tier 1 rides at rope drop, park close, or during fireworks however there is no other way than a boarding group or lightning lane for ROTR.
Day one I can see people on their phones at 7 am  “Honey genie says there are no more boarding groups but he says we can purchase lightning lane for 35.”
I cannot envision a scenario where all the lightning lane for ROTR aren’t sold out to on site hotel guests prior to park opening.  The demand simply is too great.  I will be purchasing the LL on my upcoming trip.


----------



## Jennasis

JakeAZ said:


> Every "day of" your trip



Truth.  But we are typically up at that time every day of our trip anyway even if we don't go to the parks.  I completely recognize the hassle this is for the majority of people.  It just isn't the thing about Genie that ticks me off...and there is plenty about it that does.


----------



## pigletto

TitusPullo said:


> As you said they aren’t increasing capacity so estimates were around 70% of a given rides capacity was dedicated to FP+ previously so I would assume the free boarding groups will be significantly harder to obtain.
> I actually think with the exception of ROTR the system is going to work really well.  There are ways to get on tier 1 rides at rope drop, park close, or during fireworks however there is no other way than a boarding group or lightning lane for ROTR.
> Day one I can see people on their phones at 7 am  “Honey genie says there are no more boarding groups but he says we can purchase lightning lane for 35.”
> I cannot envision a scenario where all the lightning lane for ROTR aren’t sold out to on site hotel guests prior to park opening.  The demand simply is too great.  I will be purchasing the LL on my upcoming trip.


I think you are right . And that it will be peak pricing pretty much every day. We haven’t had a chance to ride it, or Ratatouille so I think I would pay for those two so I could see them at least one time and just use a rope drop everything else. I guess it’s a necessary evil if I want to see them at all.


----------



## JakeAZ

tinkerhon said:


> I really hope you can see whats available prior to purchasing-- before I am so sure that Disney would be so willing to give people a refund if they paid and none of their selections were available ..  (


I bet they will, but I don't know how much it's really going to help you in the AM.  It will allow those who purchase it to grab the next available time, not a time of their choosing.  So early in the AM, you're only going to see AM times across the board.


----------



## sheilafri

Jimmy Mouse said:


> The whole Genie mess makes me sick. We purchased DVC because WDW is fun and we wanted it to be stress free. Now that we have gone to Universal twice, we regret our DVC purchase. UO just does things better. Free unlimited Express Pass when staying at HRH just cannot be beat. Over all, the whole UO vacation is easier and has great rides, resorts and restaurants.


I understand your point of view. We are Seasonal Resident AP holders at WDW but don’t qualify for UO FL Resident Passes so feel we are stuck with the mouse.  The first year we figured out how to “do” the parks and it has been a stress free holiday for us since then. If we have to refigure our budget every day, and relearn how to maximize our efficiency at the parks it will make WDW a less desirable destination.


----------



## twincruisers

tinkerhon said:


> And you have to purchase G+ that morning, if you choose to, correct?   Cant do it in advance for all of your park days ?



You can do it in advance, the only limitation is that you need to buy G+ for all the days of your park pass. If you want to buy them for individual days, you do it the day of.


----------



## twincruisers

tinkerhon said:


> And for resort guests, you would be able to purchase (2) tier 1 (upcharge rides) at 7AM?   Only the G+ you can only book 1 ?



For IAS, you can purchase up to a max of 2 rides per day, we know you can get one at 7am, but not sure if both will be available then or at different time slots.

For G+, you get unlimited rides, but you can only be holding the LL pass for one at any given time.


----------



## Opie100

G+ (tier 2 attractions) only allows one selection at a time. So calling it unlimited isn't really telling the story if you only can use it for a couple rides in a given day.


----------



## twincruisers

JakeAZ said:


> I bet they will, but I don't know how much it's really going to help you in the AM.  It will allow those who purchase it to grab the next available time, not a time of their choosing.  So early in the AM, you're only going to see AM times across the board.


I also see the most likely scenario is that your stuck in a 130 min stand-by line at Splash Mountain and Genie says "upgrade for $15 for a 15 min wait". This is where I see Genie going the route of mobile gaming and pushing the "micro-transaction" as a convenience/time saver.


----------



## Violetspider

I'm seeing that some are thinking G+ will allow for stacking like MaxPass at DL did. Where did that thinking come from? Everything Disney has issued thus far would seem to indicate only one LL at a time. Is it just wishful thinking?Just hoping for some clarity on that thought.


----------



## JakeAZ

Opie100 said:


> G+ (tier 2 attractions) only allows one selection at a time. So calling it unlimited isn't really telling the story if you only can use it for a couple rides in a given day.


While, as of now, I'm not a fan of the Genie, I don't think slots will run out as fast as people are speculating.

With FP+, times were made 60/90 days in advance and everyone got 3 to start with.  Here everyone has the opportunity to get 1 (a la carte aside) at a time, but not everyone will buy it.  If you use it as intended, grabbing the closest time available in the park you're at, you should be able to grab quite a few in a given day.


----------



## serenitygr

deltadisney said:


> Any word on whether Genie+ and/or paid selection times will be cut-off during the early morning/evening hours for resort/deluxe guests?  Certainly, it would just be stand-by for those, wouldn't you think?


If not, then the advantage of early arrival and staying towards park closing to ride headliners will be gone. Those time slots could already be filled with people…


----------



## LiteBrite

TangledHairDon'tCare said:


> Where are the optimists?  I haven’t seen them!



I am cautiously optimistic.

In terms of the availability of Genie+ passes, I'm thinking that it will be kind of like FP+ was, except that the first G+ pass of the day will function like the 3rd FP+ did - once that one was used, the game was on, and we were on the hunt for the next one, then the next, then the next.  To us, it was enjoyable, like a game that we got good at, and we typically got many of them throughout the day.  

Maybe G+ will be like that too, maybe it won't be many hours between passes.  I do realize there were lots of people who never got the hang of FP+, and many won't get the hang of G+ either, but they could.  My optimistic viewpoint is that perhaps we'll all have the opportunity to get good at the game.  

To be clear, I am not pleased at the prospect of having to pay for it.  We do WDW as cheaply as anyone I know, and we may or may not feel able or willing to pay for it, but I'm hoping for the best anyway.   Waiting in lines during Covid hasn't been terrible at all (admittedly we didn't go during the summer), so maybe if we continue to visit at less crowded times, then waiting in standby lines won't be terrible.


----------



## Grasshopper2016

Mixed feelings overall.  I'm really frustrated that there is no way to line skip the Tier-1 ride lines more than once a day, even if you are willing to open your wallet.  But, leaving that aside, I think my satisfaction with Genie+ will depend almost entirely on how many (and which) LL slots you can pull during the day.   If you can only end up getting 3 or 4, and only 2 of those are desirable rides (in the league of HM, POTC, PPF, MFSR, RnRC, ToT, Soarin', etc.), then I will be very disappointed.  But if it ends up working the way some people claim that Maxpass worked --- an ability to pull 8-10 good ride slots per day -- then I will be satisfied. 

To be clear, that will still mean I'm paying more for less than what I used to get for free with fastpass+.  But I knew that those days were over . . . .


----------



## yorkieteacher

Stormtrooper mum said:


> Forgive me if I’ve missed this.  Planning a dec trip to just ak.  Realise FOP will be one of the extra paid lighting pass lines but what else do we think would be in that tier at ak?   Got to be honest, willing to pay to avoid the lines with my elderly dad and 6 year old son...


Safari- the two most popular rides are FOP and Safari-


----------



## Mystify

I’m going to have to take a special course just to be able to use this system.  It’s one thing to take away what was free and put a price on it but, it’s another when you make it so complicated to use.  This is not a vacation any longer.


----------



## JakeAZ

Mystify said:


> I’m going to have to take a special course just to be able to use this system.  It’s one thing to take away what was free and put a price on it but, it’s another when you make it so complicated to use.  This is not a vacation any longer.


People are more likely to adapt to new programs that are easy to use. Time will tell if this is easy to use.

Once I get to a 3rd or 4th click in an app and haven’t gotten what I’m looking for, I think twice about using that app again.


----------



## HopperFan

KrzyKtty101 said:


> I do estimate that space mountain will not be as inundated once Tron opens. Especially because they're going to be somewhat close together. Replacing space mountain with Tron might make sense. The same might happen with test track and guardians.



Oh I think Space Mountain and Test Track are only placeholders for when the other two open. Then they will likely drop out, especially if Disney sticks to the two per park.


----------



## NY Pirate Princess

Yuck. That is all.


----------



## Frozen2014

yorkieteacher said:


> Safari- the two most popular rides are FOP and Safari-


If FOP is a pay per ride one, do you think it will be easier to get on the ride (i.e. whereas fastpass seems pretty hard to get)


----------



## HopperFan

sheilafri said:


> I understand your point of view. We are Seasonal Resident AP holders at WDW but don’t qualify for UO FL Resident Passes so feel we are stuck with the mouse.  The first year we figured out how to “do” the parks and it has been a stress free holiday for us since then. If we have to refigure our budget every day, and relearn how to maximize our efficiency at the parks it will make WDW a less desirable destination.



Price it out ... UO doesn't give the big break for FL AP like Disney does.  I do both. You only save $50 on the Preferred Annual Pass. And the pass is considerably less than Disney's comparable pass. And they let anyone do the monthly payments unlike Disney.


----------



## bsmcneil

Duck143 said:


> Is anyone planning on emailing Disney to voice their unhappiness?  I have read all 41 pages up to now and read hundreds of different complaints and I am wondering if these are going to be voiced to Disney?  If so, where are you planning on sending your opinions?  If everyone who has something to say actually says it to Disney, maybe it will make a difference? Just maybe?
> 
> I agree with so many things that have been written here since the announcement yesterday. I don't want to get up before 7am EVERY day on my vacation just to get all stressed out staring at my phone waiting for my clock to tick to 7:00:00 am just so my family can get up and have the 'best trip ever!" I am a huge planner and have rolled with the punches to plan every detail for our many trips to Disney. I enjoy the planning and never minded getting up and onto a computer to get all the (180, 90, 60, 30 days) ADR's and FP+ booked. I just really don't want to have to do this every single morning during our trip. This past May, I was so stressed our first park day trying to get a BG for my family to ride RotR that I was shaking. I managed to get the BG and everyone loved it, but I don't need this pressure every day. I don't mind if this is the only way to get on the newest attractions, but not for many and I haven't even gotten into the new additional cost for this stress.


wdw.guest.communications@disneyworld.com if folks didn't see it. And I did email.


----------



## ElsasFan

I hate this.  We take our three kids to WDW annually.  I like having a plan for what we are going to do for the day.  I don't need a computer to figure out what I should do, nor do I want it to, and I certainly don't want to be staring at my phone when the park opens, trying to figure out where we're going or what Lightening Pass we're going to select.  And who's going to have to do that for our family?  Me!  Thanks, Disney.  If we choose to keep going to Disney, in addition to the skyrocketing ticket and resort prices, we have to pay for transportation to and from the airport, plus $85/day for Genie +, and perhaps even more if we want to ride the most popular rides without a long wait.  With Fastpass+ I had to plan, but I was the master of my day, not Genie, and it was free.


----------



## eleven24

Jothmas said:


> I wish RotR were just pay per ride. It would be an efficient way to reallocate the availability so that frequent guests would end up riding less often and guests who visit once every several years would have more opportunity to ride at least once.



At that point, why not just have a big ticket booth and sell tickets for rides?


----------



## eleven24

LiteBrite said:


> Waiting in lines during Covid hasn't been terrible at all (admittedly we didn't go during the summer), so maybe if we continue to visit at less crowded times, then waiting in standby lines won't be terrible.



I will surprisingly agree that waiting in the lines wasn't too bad.  Remember though, the lines were just one line constantly moving.  Adding in the LL line means pausing the standby line to let LL people in.  That makes the standby line move much slower.


----------



## Minnie_49

bsmcneil said:


> wdw.guest.communications@disneyworld.com if folks didn't see it. And I did email.



Email sent!


----------



## eleven24

ElsasFan said:


> I hate this.  We take our three kids to WDW annually.  I like having a plan for what we are going to do for the day.  I don't need a computer to figure out what I should do, nor do I want it to, and I certainly don't want to be staring at my phone when the park opens, trying to figure out where we're going or what Lightening Pass we're going to select.  And who's going to have to do that for our family?  Me!  Thanks, Disney.  If we choose to keep going to Disney, in addition to the skyrocketing ticket and resort prices, we have to pay for transportation to and from the airport, plus $85/day for Genie +, and perhaps even more if we want to ride the most popular rides without a long wait.  With Fastpass+ I had to plan, but I was the master of my day, not Genie, and it was free.



The irony is, with kids aged 11 & 19 Disney is the one time they're ok not constantly being on their phones.


----------



## bethbuchall

peteykirch said:


> I got the email and our trip isn't until November 8th. If this drops the same week as the 50th the Guest Relations CMs are going to be begging to be put down.


I didn’t get the email, and we check in November 5th. I also never received the email about advance purchase of Very Merriest tickets.


----------



## CookieGVB

Lehuaann said:


> Lightning Lane_. “Honey, we have a lightning pass; get in the lightning lane!”_
> 
> Not easy or catchy like FastPass


But wait until they install all the cute Lightning McQueen signage to indicate the lines that were already there!


----------



## squirk

Is it just me, or did Disney essentially just raise ticket prices by anywhere from 12-25% without actually raising ticket prices?

To get _kind of_ the same FP experience you used to get included in your ticket price, you now have to pay $15/day extra for Genie+.

Depending on the length of your MYW ticket, an extra $15/day is a pretty hefty up-charge on a per-day basis.


----------



## Narcoossee11

bsmcneil said:


> wdw.guest.communications@disneyworld.com if folks didn't see it. And I did email.


You can certainly voice your concern.   BUTTTTTT
GENIE has been in the works for over 10years and cost the company BILLIONS of dollars. This is the direction the company WANTS and PLANS to go.  This ship has sailed a long time ago.
Disney started with MDE , now GENIE And has future programs.


----------



## Opie100

JakeAZ said:


> While, as of now, I'm not a fan of the Genie, I don't think slots will run out as fast as people are speculating.
> 
> With FP+, times were made 60/90 days in advance and everyone got 3 to start with.  Here everyone has the opportunity to get 1 (a la carte aside) at a time, but not everyone will buy it.  If you use it as intended, grabbing the closest time available in the park you're at, you should be able to grab quite a few in a given day.


Keep in mind that, even back when you had three FPs to start with, you could only choose one of the top-tier attractions. So while I would expect attractions like Philharmagic to continue to have availability all day long, I highly doubt Mine Train will be available in the afternoon. So yes, you should be able to do Tiki Room and Small World frequently but Tier one or top tier 2 attractions (e.g. Mine Train, Test Track) you don't choose early in the AM you may not get without buying an Individual LP at whatever they are charging.

On net, even if you get to experience approximately the same attractions as before (best case), it will cost more (~35%) and move the effort of doing so out of the preparation period and into your actual vacation time.


----------



## chalee94

squirk said:


> Is it just me, or did Disney essentially just raise ticket prices by anywhere from 12-25% without actually raising ticket prices?
> 
> To get _kind of_ the same FP experience you used to get included in your ticket price, you now have to pay $15/day extra for Genie+.
> 
> Depending on the length of your MYW ticket, an extra $15/day is a pretty hefty up-charge on a per-day basis.



$15 is just the start. For 2 Tier 1 rides, it could be an extra $40-50 per person per day.

Or if you are content to give up "FastPass" then you still have the same ticket prices but longer waits.


----------



## Isabelle12345

Opie100 said:


> Keep in mind that, back when you had three FPs to start with, you could only choose one of the top-tier attractions. So while I expect attractions like Philharmagic to continue to have availability all day long, I highly doubt Mine Train will be available in the afternoon. So yes, you should be able to do Tiki Room and Small World frequently but the Tier one (e.g. Mine Train) you don't choose early in the AM you may not get without buying the Individual LP. Start saving now.



As a mother of two young kids who don't do big rides, this is actually a bonus for me. If it makes us skip 15-20 min lines for Dumbo, Small world, Mermaid etc, it will make the experience so much more enjoyable for the kids! (We used to get FP+ for that kind of attractions, and then when all 3 were used we would get on the App and grab anything that was available soon, and we would go where the FP+ lead us. We loved doing that with the previous FP system and I was afraid we wouldn't be able to do that anymore, but I think Genie+ should allow us to do just that! Guess we'll have to see how it goes when it comes out!)

And yes, I know my kids will eventually grow up and I will have to decide whether or not I will pay the upcharge for the e-ticket rides... but who knows what Genie and Disney will look like then!

So I guess everyone sees it differently depending on their own personal situation... for me, sure, I wish it were still free, but it could have been way worse!


----------



## Opie100

Isabelle12345 said:


> As a mother of two young kids who don't do big rides, this is actually a bonus for me. If it makes us skip 15-20 min lines for Dumbo, Small world, Mermaid etc, it will make the experience so much more enjoyable for the kids! (We used to get FP+ for that kind of attractions, and then when all 3 were used we would get on the App and grab anything that was available soon, and we would go where the FP+ lead us. We loved doing that with the previous FP system and I was afraid we wouldn't be able to do that anymore, but I think Genie+ should allow us to do just that! Guess we'll have to see how it goes when it comes out!)
> 
> And yes, I know my kids will eventually grow up and I will have to decide whether or not I will pay the upcharge for the e-ticket rides... but who knows what Genie and Disney will look like then!
> 
> So I guess everyone sees it differently depending on their own personal situation... for me, sure, I wish it were still free, but it could have been way worse!


We don't know how long the LP queues will be, but for those that do not care about Tier 2 or Tier 1 attractions I would not anticipate a big change, unless Genie+ is a flop, creating more demand for the "free" attractions. I think most guests are looking to do Tier 1 or 2 attractions (Mine Train isn't considered a big ride, for example - same for Frozen at Epcot -- both of these are at least Tier 2).


----------



## squirk

chalee94 said:


> $15 is just the start. For 2 Tier 1 rides, it could be an extra $40-50 per person per day.
> 
> Or if you are content to give up "FastPass" then you still have the same ticket prices but longer waits.



Right, but I didn’t even want to get started on “Lightning Lane.” That idea turns me off far more than Genie+.

My point was that if you want _roughly_ the same experience that you had before, Genie+ is essentially a backdoor ticket upcharge.


----------



## mousestruck

My biggest concern is availability. Let’s say I pay for Genie+ and the attraction we want to experience most at MK is Thunder Mountain. I log in at 7:00 am but the first time available isn’t until 2:00. If I grab that slot, I can’t make another reservation until after 2:00, wasting all morning in longer lines and probably losing out on other attractions we’d like to experience because nothing will be available by late afternoon. The other option is to book a different attraction and hope I can get Thunder Mountain later, which will probably become increasingly difficult as the day goes on and fewer time slots are available. Am I missing something?


----------



## chalee94

squirk said:


> Right, but I didn’t even want to get started on “Lightning Lane.” That idea turns me off far more than Genie+.
> 
> My point was that if you want _roughly_ the same experience that you had before, Genie+ is essentially a backdoor ticket upcharge.



Yes. My point was that the "same experience you had before" included a Tier 1 FP, so you were lowballing the ticket upcharge...


----------



## soniam

TangledHairDon'tCare said:


> Where are the optimists?  I haven’t seen them!


I wouldn't say I am optimistic, but I'm not pessimistic. I enjoyed Maxpass at Disneyland and felt it was worth the price. It would be worth it at $20. However, I didn't have problems with FP+ at WDW. I also don't have a problem waking up early, since we always do rope drop. I don't see doing the individual pay/ride every day, but we might do it on some rides. It depends upon the price. It's just new rules. They don't seem any more onerous than the previous rules right now, so I will follow them.


----------



## squirk

chalee94 said:


> Yes. My point was that the "same experience you had before" included a Tier 1 FP, so you were lowballing the ticket upcharge...



You’re right.  I was.  But still!  I stand by my hypothesis.


----------



## chalee94

It'll be interesting to see if all the recent "pay-to-play" changes (resort parking fees/magic bands/DME/Genie+) actually change demand for WDW or if it'll be the same ole* **GRUMBLE GRUMBLE GRUMBLE*** ok, i'll pay it...  like normal...


----------



## bsmcneil

Narcoossee11 said:


> You can certainly voice your concern.   BUTTTTTT
> GENIE has been in the works for over 10years and cost the company BILLIONS of dollars. This is the direction the company WANTS and PLANS to go.  This ship has sailed a long time ago.
> Disney started with MDE , now GENIE And has future programs.


Oh definitely - I have no sense that sending feedback is going to stop this, or even alter it. But giving them my feedback felt more useful than simply putting it here (why not both?!). I'm a big believer in always doing surveys, responding re: feedback etc as I know from experience that there are places that keep relative track of things like that. 

Part of my email just said - I get it, etc. And I feel bad for people like my family (of origin). I took my mom (dad died when I was 6) and grandparents to WDW a decade or so ago. Great people, salt of the earth. Only grandpa is still alive - but even if they were, they would not have had a smartphone if I wanted to take them (for instance to my Jan trip to experience it with my kids). They were lucky that in 2008 or whenever I took them, I could figure out all of the arrangements. They'd absolutely be SOL for an experience like this, and it really bothers me. I don't mind upsells and private events - but to make things so difficult (perhaps to the point of inaccessible) for people ... it's just disappointing. So many people say, "Well, everyone else charged so of course they would eventually" and I liked supporting a company that I felt cared about people. Even if there are positives to be gained from any of this - I just don't see a company that seems to care about its guests.


----------



## monstermash23

mousestruck said:


> My biggest concern is availability. Let’s say I pay for Genie+ and the attraction we want to experience most at MK is Thunder Mountain. I log in at 7:00 am but the first time available isn’t until 2:00. If I grab that slot, I can’t make another reservation until after 2:00, wasting all morning in longer lines and probably losing out on other attractions we’d like to experience because nothing will be available by late afternoon. The other option is to book a different attraction and hope I can get Thunder Mountain later, which will probably become increasingly difficult as the day goes on and fewer time slots are available. Am I missing something?



I was wondering the same thing. I think you are right though.

We only used Maxpass at DL for a few days a dew years back (our first and only time there). But this is how it worked for Maxpass too right, if I remember correctly?


----------



## bsmcneil

chalee94 said:


> It'll be interesting to see if all the recent "pay-to-play" changes (resort parking fees/magic bands/DME/Genie+) actually change demand for WDW or if it'll be the same ole* **GRUMBLE GRUMBLE GRUMBLE*** ok, i'll pay it...  like normal...


For me, and I expressed this in the message I sent, I've typically gone every 2 years in my life (though I haven't been in 5 because I had super young ones and they're only now getting to the stage where it might make sense to take them). I have rented DVC points for a trip in Jan. Once that's done, I won't budget for the usual trips - someone else can have my spot. We'll do the usual vacations (beach, road trip, national parks) and I'll check back in a few years later. After the Jan trip, I'll close down the Disney Visa and stuff like that. For me, it'll be a slow fade and I don't feel the need to whine to them that they won't see me again. But I also won't be the person that is eager to take people, encourage people (I'm the guy - like many of you - identified as "the person to ask about Disney" whenever friends take that first trip), etc.


----------



## JakeAZ

Opie100 said:


> e.g. Mine Train, Test Track


Those are both going to be a la carte rides.  I'm talking about the rides included with Genie+.

It's just a math problem at this point.  Not everyone will use Genie+ and those that do, start with 1/3 less FP than in the past.


----------



## yorkieteacher

Frozen2014 said:


> If FOP is a pay per ride one, do you think it will be easier to get on the ride (i.e. whereas fastpass seems pretty hard to get)


I would think fewer people would be willing to pay than use a free service, so it would be easier to “buy” a time slot through the individual attraction selection process. I’m sure it depends on how many time slots are available and how many people are willing to pay. It sounds like Disney believes  you will need to pick these at 7 am and haven’t said how different time slots will be allotted. If anything like  fast pass, it was harder to get an earlier FOP time than a later one.


----------



## Opie100

JakeAZ said:


> Those are both going to be a la carte rides.  I'm talking about the rides included with Genie+.
> 
> It's just a math problem at this point.  Not everyone will use Genie+ and those that do, start with 1/3 less FP than in the past.


I just found a rumored list. I have to admit it was a lot more fun getting to do 7DMT through diligent planning than it will be paying an additional $80+ or whatever every time my family rides.


----------



## Cabius

squirk said:


> Is it just me, or did Disney essentially just raise ticket prices by anywhere from 12-25% without actually raising ticket prices?


Oh, I'm sure they will _also_ raise ticket prices quite a bit. Just wait.


----------



## Opie100

If a family of four all has Genie+, and they all get a time for a certain attraction, but only two want to do the attraction, will the other two be able to do it twice like before?

The other reason for increased attendance at park open is that doing so can save a family of four ~$80-100 to get into the regular line on an attraction at rope drop to avoid the LP fee.


----------



## twodogs

I am wondering if most of the folks here who are upset about "being forced" to get up at 7am every day or they will not get any value out of Genie + have ever used MP at DLR?  If you have used it, you understand that even arriving mid day, you were able to get plenty of FPs for rides, and you were not shut out. You did have to be diligent and refresh sometimes to get a return time that was not 3-4 hours away, but who on these boards would complain about knowing the secret to refreshing and having that benefit (save those people who have been posting that the booked their 3 FP+ rides 60 days in advance and then never looked at their phones while in the parks; I find that hard to believe because we on these boards knew how to work that system, but...)?  If it works anything like MP, you will be able to get passes even later in the day.  Passes will not run out at 7:01am!


----------



## cjlong88

mousestruck said:


> My biggest concern is availability. Let’s say I pay for Genie+ and the attraction we want to experience most at MK is Thunder Mountain. I log in at 7:00 am but the first time available isn’t until 2:00. If I grab that slot, I can’t make another reservation until after 2:00, wasting all morning in longer lines and probably losing out on other attractions we’d like to experience because nothing will be available by late afternoon. The other option is to book a different attraction and hope I can get Thunder Mountain later, which will probably become increasingly difficult as the day goes on and fewer time slots are available. Am I missing something?


WDW may have a stipulation like they did with Maxpass at DLR...you can book your next LL pass after you use your first one OR after a certain amount of time (i.e. 90 minutes). I'm also curious about this.


----------



## sethschroeder

twodogs said:


> have ever used MP at DLR



1000% different groups and different parks. 

DL is mostly locals while WDW is mostly tourists. You will have more uptake on a paid system at WDW because you have more once in x timers. Be it once a year, decade, lifetime. 

With mostly locals in a park there is less pressure to ride everything, get there early, ect.


----------



## Sjm9911

twodogs said:


> I am wondering if most of the folks here who are upset about "being forced" to get up at 7am every day or they will not get any value out of Genie + have ever used MP at DLR?  If you have used it, you understand that even arriving mid day, you were able to get plenty of FPs for rides, and you were not shut out. You did have to be diligent and refresh sometimes to get a return time that was not 3-4 hours away, but who on these boards would complain about knowing the secret to refreshing and having that benefit (save those people who have been posting that the booked their 3 FP+ rides 60 days in advance and then never looked at their phones while in the parks; I find that hard to believe because we on these boards knew how to work that system, but...)?  If it works anything like MP, you will be able to get passes even later in the day.  Passes will not run out at 7:01am!


Did mp start at 7 am? I never used it? If not , its not the same. Stuff will book up earlier and will effect things. Otherwise make it at park opening or an hour beforehand. I have stuff to do in the am. I may not be the ideal guest for this. We camp, im making breakfast, cleaning and such, icing up the cooler, etc. Plus getting ready for the parks. Adding a activity in this time frame just dosen't fit in with what i have to do. Plus inhave to find a place to be able to do it. If i dont have good phone service i have to scope that put beforehand. The wi fi is awful in most places.


----------



## Silock

Poor Gail said:


> My only satisfaction is knowing that all the people I've heard howling for years about how much better things were before Fastpass (spoiler alert, they weren't) will get it in the neck.  They either get to cough green or stand in the three hour lines with us common rabble.



lol yep


----------



## Jrb1979

brightlined said:


> I wish people wouldn't say this every time Disney does something they don't like. (And you're allowed to not like this.)
> 
> 
> Universal's Express Pass is a much more expensive version of what people are mostly complaining about here.
> 
> It's not like Universal's immune from this kind of behavior. For example, if you buy a Universal AP, you still have to pay for parking on the first visit (unless you go after 6pm).
> 
> (And I'll gently nudge that the two most recent ride additions at USP are two of the worst theme park rides of the last thirty years.)


Velocicoaster is one of the best coasters.


----------



## bigmac5

All this talk about Genie + and rides which I get but we used to us FP on shows and character meet and greet. Has anyone heard how they are going to work?

I must say I am not sold on this, but I am trying to take a wait and see attitude.  We were hoping on going in spring 2022 but that too is a wait and see... partly on covid(from Canada here) and partly on Genie.  I really liked the FP+ so that we knew we were guarantied 3 rides a day.  I was a big planner and felt so happy when I got the rides and times we wanted.  We prefer the parks at night so like to sleep in but since you have to book your one ride you have to get up at 7am...not my type of vacation.  Is the booking a park before planning anything here to say?  (not happy about that either)

Everyone remember the uproar when they brought in FP+?  but you didn't have to pay extra for it.  so I am trying to stay calm.  lol


----------



## dchronister

I have a trip coming up in November and we will see how it goes, but I’m getting really frustrated, maybe be my last visit! It’s just money and more money on top of more money! If they would lower the price of the admission ticket overall to allow for more pricing for the genie and genie +, but they won’t! If you are taking a family, it adds up quick! So the regular ticket now days is just for getting in the gate and wondering around, maybe shows, because the list I saw for what is included in the lightening lane, didn’t leave much! At some point they will price everyone out and then what are they gonna do. I know they have to make money please to run the place but gee whiz!


----------



## bsmcneil

I'm planning to go solo (delta has given me cause for concern) in Sept. If it's up and running by then - I'll get a feel for how easy/confusing/expensive/frustrating it is and may end up using the payment I've made to the DVC rental for something else and then being done with it all.


----------



## Disneyliscious

I feel like there was a better option. I could probably be on board with a paid option IF there was some kind of free option. They could have let the 1 FP at a time be the free option and then charged the $15 per day to let you make 3 at a time. 

I can't see EVER being on board with the "pay per ride" option that will be for rides like RotR because there is no standby. The entire line que will fill up with people paying to ride it and there will be no "standby" slots left because its all virtual. Disney isn't going to say "har har ok, we'll just have 100 FP slots available for RotR each day and the rest are free virtual que like normal". No. They can sell every single one of those ride slots as a pay-to-ride and you can bet they are going to. THAT really irks me.


----------



## mi*vida*loca

I really don’t see the tier 2 rides selling out quickly except for ROTR and remy. And maybe FOP. As for the rest of the rides, why would you buy it before getting to the park? I would be annoyed if I paid for a pass to do safari and when I arrive it has a doable wait time. I think most tier 2 rides won’t sell out that fast.


----------



## mi*vida*loca

bigmac5 said:


> All this talk about Genie + and rides which I get but we used to us FP on shows and character meet and greet. Has anyone heard how they are going to work?
> 
> I must say I am not sold on this, but I am trying to take a wait and see attitude.  We were hoping on going in spring 2022 but that too is a wait and see... partly on covid(from Canada here) and partly on Genie.  I really liked the FP+ so that we knew we were guarantied 3 rides a day.  I was a big planner and felt so happy when I got the rides and times we wanted.  We prefer the parks at night so like to sleep in but since you have to book your one ride you have to get up at 7am...not my type of vacation.  Is the booking a park before planning anything here to say?  (not happy about that either)
> 
> Everyone remember the uproar when they brought in FP+?  but you didn't have to pay extra for it.  so I am trying to stay calm.  lol



I would assume shows aren’t included since they aren’t on the list they released. I think we will have to wait and see about character meets.


----------



## squirk

Cabius said:


> Oh, I'm sure they will _also_ raise ticket prices quite a bit. Just wait.



Oh, I agree completely.  I didn’t mean to suggest that Genie+ would be _in lieu of_ the usual ticket price hikes.


----------



## where_else

I've been skimming all of this info, and people were talking about receiving Genie emails from Disney. We got an email with a countdown starting at 75 days (trip starts Nov 2) and there is no mention of Genie at all


----------



## Skippyboo

mousestruck said:


> My biggest concern is availability. Let’s say I pay for Genie+ and the attraction we want to experience most at MK is Thunder Mountain. I log in at 7:00 am but the first time available isn’t until 2:00. If I grab that slot, I can’t make another reservation until after 2:00, wasting all morning in longer lines and probably losing out on other attractions we’d like to experience because nothing will be available by late afternoon. The other option is to book a different attraction and hope I can get Thunder Mountain later, which will probably become increasingly difficult as the day goes on and fewer time slots are available. Am I missing something?


Theoretically the first available BTM slot should not 2 pm because there is no advanced booking anymore. All the rides refresh each morning. You’re not picking from the leftover slots from other guests like you were when doing FP+ booking.


----------



## mi*vida*loca

https://blogmickey.com/2021/08/disney-fans-overwhelmingly-dislike-disney-genie-announcement/


----------



## luv2cheer92

mi*vida*loca said:


> https://blogmickey.com/2021/08/disney-fans-overwhelmingly-dislike-disney-genie-announcement/


Reminds me of FP+. There were a few who loved it from the very beginning, but most hated it when it was first announced. People don't like change.


----------



## garris3404

mi*vida*loca said:


> https://blogmickey.com/2021/08/disney-fans-overwhelmingly-dislike-disney-genie-announcement/


I just went and disliked all Genie related videos.  Maybe Disney will notice?


----------



## mi*vida*loca

luv2cheer92 said:


> Reminds me of FP+. There were a few who loved it from the very beginning, but most hated it when it was first announced. People don't like change.



I loved FP+ from day 1. We didn’t use legacy FP much due to zigzagging around the park. This is basically a virtual legacy FP and I’m ok with that. I don’t like having to pay for it or pay for tier 1 rides.


----------



## Cynner

LiteBrite said:


> I am cautiously optimistic.
> 
> In terms of the availability of Genie+ passes, I'm thinking that it will be kind of like FP+ was, except that the first G+ pass of the day will function like the 3rd FP+ did - once that one was used, the game was on, and we were on the hunt for the next one, then the next, then the next.  To us, it was enjoyable, like a game that we got good at, and we typically got many of them throughout the day.
> 
> Maybe G+ will be like that too, maybe it won't be many hours between passes.  I do realize there were lots of people who never got the hang of FP+, and many won't get the hang of G+ either, but they could.  My optimistic viewpoint is that perhaps we'll all have the opportunity to get good at the game.
> 
> To be clear, I am not pleased at the prospect of having to pay for it.  We do WDW as cheaply as anyone I know, and we may or may not feel able or willing to pay for it, but I'm hoping for the best anyway.   Waiting in lines during Covid hasn't been terrible at all (admittedly we didn't go during the summer), so maybe if we continue to visit at less crowded times, then waiting in standby lines won't be terrible.


That's exactly what I think it will be like - but you can't choose your return time, but you can pick a ride that has the soonest return time (but you'll be giving up that possible good ride one instead). Though the Post 3rd FP game could be 'fun', it was also intensive and took a lot of time (not to mention made you run from one side of the park to the other way too often). I will really really miss the assurance that we'll get to ride the specific high demand rides we really wanted with the old FP reservation system.
This is going to move all my stress from 60 days out to 7a every freaking day and then all day long during my actual vacation! (sad sigh)



bsmcneil said:


> wdw.guest.communications@disneyworld.com


Sent my feedback - polite with suggestions 



Skippyboo said:


> Theoretically the first available BTM slot should not 2 pm because there is no advanced booking anymore. All the rides refresh each morning. You’re not picking from the leftover slots from other guests like you were when doing FP+ booking.


The rides refresh - but I'd bet - at 7:01 Millenieum Falcon will be giving out passes with scheduled return times in the evening and be out of Genie+ passes for the day by 7:02.  So that is definitely a likely scenario where you just basically paid $15 for another unofficial 'Ala Cart' Lightning Lane pass if you cannot make another Genie+ pass until you use that one.


----------



## MMSM

Here is what I don’t get.  I would wake up and at 7 am try to get boarding pass while my husband gets our two lightening lane selections (lets hope SDD and Smugglers Run~ for extra cost). I would hope these times would not be spread out like one in am and one in pm. Then if I wanted I could also purchase genie + for $15 and select one tier 2 ride.  So in April (ticket prices high due to Easter) I would add the $15 and then also add the two rides for lightening lane access.  So in theory, I could still get a VQ for Rise, get the two most popular, pick up TOT and head to rock n roller.   All for the cost $300 per person.  HS lines have been ridiculous so the idea of skipping lines is appealing.  However when you think I may have to pay $20 per person to skip line at SDD for a 3 min ride, thats hard to comprehend.


----------



## charmed59

I loved classic FP.  Could change my plans in the middle of the day.  Very flexible.

Then FP+ came out and it sounded awesome.  I could sleep in and still hit the rides I wanted.  Turns out, unless I book a room over 60 days out (and preferably that room for a week) I couldn’t get a FP to the newer rides.  Since I’m fairly local, and decide about a week or two out, it didn’t do me any good.  Even though I was staying onsite.

So I’m optimistic about this Genie thing.


----------



## JCornell

mi*vida*loca said:


> I loved FP+ from day 1. We didn’t use legacy FP much due to zigzagging around the park. This is basically a virtual legacy FP and I’m ok with that. I don’t like having to pay for it or pay for tier 1 rides.


I liked FP+ day one but liked it less over time.  I liked the way we operated more with FP.  You'd show up to a ride and if the wait was short get in line and if it was long and you really wanted to ride it, grab a FP.  FP+ was more like a reservation for 3 rides no matter how busy the park was and sometimes it actually felt like a waste.  Plus the tiering made it less useful than FP.  With FP you'd look at the return time and decide if grabbing one was worth your time but there was no real tiering, just a supply and demand function.  Genie feels like it might be more like this and Genie+ is an interesting option if the parks are busy but something I can forego if they're not.  I'm willing to wait and see this in action to see if it works better.


----------



## Einstein509

Minnie_49 said:


> Email sent!


Email sent as well.  This really might be the last straw for us.


----------



## Opie100

Skippyboo said:


> Theoretically the first available BTM slot should not 2 pm because there is no advanced booking anymore. All the rides refresh each morning. You’re not picking from the leftover slots from other guests like you were when doing FP+ booking.


It will depend on a variety of factors, such as how many LPs have been issued prior by guest services, how well WiFi is working at the park, how soon after the window opens you are able to log in, how well the network handles 10k+ guests logging in concurrently, technical downtime, etc. When ROTR opened, some guests didn’t get times until the evening, even logging in within 5-10 mins of park open. BTMR is not ROTR, but it will be interesting how long before AM slots are gone. Even if you get an 11am time, it would not be surprising for big Tier 2 attractions to be fully allocated by then.


----------



## mouserrificmom

I got a giggle when I saw the blog video last night and realized that when we saw them filming something on the lawn in front of Casey's last week and wondered what it was......we now know!


----------



## Einstein509

And Disney continues to get roasted on the Disney Parks Blog.  A lot of negative comments.


----------



## poison ivy

luv2cheer92 said:


> Umm no, but thanks.
> You do know its part of the MDE app though right?


which can easily be ignored


----------



## JakAHearts

I also hate that I won't be able to give my fast passes to people. I loved giving the paper passes away to someone just about to join a long queue. We even gave a whole family FOP fast passes once when we got them for evacuating a ride. The family was outside FOP trying to decide and talking about dinner, elderly people waiting for 3 hours, etc. and when we gave them 5 fast passes tickets they thought we were joking! It was the best feeling to help make that magic but I dont think that will be an option anymore.


----------



## jknc

Einstein509 said:


> Email sent as well.  This really might be the last straw for us.



Same. I’ll be begging for a ticket refund of $2400.

Also contacted DVC site I booked a Poly room for Pres Day 2022, to try and offload. The value is gone IMO.


----------



## jknc

jknc said:


> Same. I’ll be begging for a ticket refund of $2400.
> 
> Also contacted DVC site I booked a Poly room for Pres Day 2022, to try and offload. The value is gone IMO.



We paid $2400 for tickets and $2500 for Poly room, so I hope thats not perceived as being “cheap”. 

There’s a difference between being frugal and stupid. Paying all the extra Genie+/LL costs - yes, I understand it’s optional - is just stupid.


----------



## Disneylover99

mi*vida*loca said:


> I really don’t see the tier 2 rides selling out quickly except for ROTR and remy. And maybe FOP. As for the rest of the rides, why would you buy it before getting to the park? I would be annoyed if I paid for a pass to do safari and when I arrive it has a doable wait time. I think most tier 2 rides won’t sell out that fast.


I agree. And I think Safari will be the least likely ride to get bought.


----------



## Disneylover99

Einstein509 said:


> And Disney continues to get roasted on the Disney Parks Blog.  A lot of negative comments.


It will be like that for a few days, and then slow down. Most will just come to a grumbly acceptance.


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

My biggest question at this point is how VQ and LL will work together on ROTR and Remy, especially if they are both (presumably) occurring at 7am.  As an offsite guest in November, I have little confidence of being able to buy the LL pass since (if I'm understanding correctly), onsite guests are able to purchase those at 7am but offsite has to wait until park opening?  I guess I will have to try for the VQ and then if unsuccessful, hope there is a LL pass still available by 10 or 11 when Epcot opens?   And to complicate matters further, will you need a park pass to get a Remy VQ like you need for ROTR?  So. many. questions.


----------



## JakeAZ

ENJDisneyFan said:


> My biggest question at this point is how VQ and LL will work together on ROTR and Remy, especially if they are both (presumably) occurring at 7am.  As an offsite guest in November, I have little confidence of being able to buy the LL pass since (if I'm understanding correctly), onsite guests are able to purchase those at 7am but offsite has to wait until park opening?  I guess I will have to try for the VQ and then if unsuccessful, hope there is a LL pass still available by 10 or 11 when Epcot opens?   And to complicate matters further, will you need a park pass to get a Remy VQ like you need for ROTR?  So. many. questions.


I don't think the a la carte rides are going to sell as fast as people think.  ROTR is going to be expensive.  My guess is there will still be spots by the time off-site is allowed to buy.

I don't' believe it's been confirmed, but yes, I would imagine you'd have to have a park pass for Epcot to get into the VQ.  How would you ride otherwise?


----------



## BroadwayHermione5

BroadwayHermione5 said:


> Random but has anyone figured out how this affects dining and other things that require advanced reservations like Savi's? Will we be able to  still reserve dining ahead of time?


So after watching the video someone else posted on here or another thread on the boards, its seems we will still be able to make dining ahead of time and we will have the genie suggest stuff around the restaurant.


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

JakeAZ said:


> I don't think the a la carte rides are going to sell as fast as people think.  ROTR is going to be expensive.  My guess is there will still be spots by the time off-site is allowed to buy.
> 
> I don't' believe it's been confirmed, but yes, I would imagine you'd have to have a park pass for Epcot to get into the VQ.  How would you ride otherwise?


Agree - ROTR will be expensive, and I'm (selfishly) less concerned with that one since I've already ridden it multiple times.  

For Remy... I wasn't planning to reserve Epcot for any days as we tend to just hop there at night.  But if I need a park pass to try for the VQ, I'll have to rethink those plans.


----------



## Frozen2014

twodogs said:


> I am wondering if most of the folks here who are upset about "being forced" to get up at 7am every day or they will not get any value out of Genie + have ever used MP at DLR?  If you have used it, you understand that even arriving mid day, you were able to get plenty of FPs for rides, and you were not shut out. You did have to be diligent and refresh sometimes to get a return time that was not 3-4 hours away, but who on these boards would complain about knowing the secret to refreshing and having that benefit (save those people who have been posting that the booked their 3 FP+ rides 60 days in advance and then never looked at their phones while in the parks; I find that hard to believe because we on these boards knew how to work that system, but...)?  If it works anything like MP, you will be able to get passes even later in the day.  Passes will not run out at 7:01am!


I quite liked MP at Disneyland found it worked well.  Some of the headliners eventually ran out (e.g. the Lightning McQueen one), but not until afternoon.  One thing though that I don't like is having to carry my phone and constantly on it during vacation.  I kind of like to disconnect....but I guess even with the old way, we'd still use it to check wait times, etc.  To me though...I kind of like the pre-planning and so booking 3 FP ahead of time was nice.  The Genie+ plus the pay ride seems like it'll be a bit stressful and having to figure things out on the spot rather than just going and enjoying the atmosphere, etc.

I am an early riser but also hoping it's not where we are forced to be up at 7am.  Don't really see this as too much of an issue though as you can only book 1 ride at a time.


----------



## wgeo

Just guessing that 7DMT would be 20/person so we would be paying 80 for our family for a FP for a 3 minute ride that used to be free?   $80 for 3 mins- thats just crazy.


----------



## BroadwayHermione5

Frozen2014 said:


> I quite liked MP at Disneyland found it worked well.  Some of the headliners eventually ran out (e.g. the Lightning McQueen one), but not until afternoon.  One thing though that I don't like is having to carry my phone and constantly on it during vacation.  I kind of like to disconnect....but I guess even with the old way, we'd still use it to check wait times, etc.  To me though...I kind of like the pre-planning and so booking 3 FP ahead of time was nice.  The Genie+ plus the pay ride seems like it'll be a bit stressful and having to figure things out on the spot rather than just going and enjoying the atmosphere, etc.
> 
> I am an early riser but also hoping it's not where we are forced to be up at 7am.  Don't really see this as too much of an issue though as you can only book 1 ride at a time.


Thats another question I have that wasn't fully answered in that video-while it looks like you can plan out your day is you have Genie+, is it like Tapu Tapu at Volcano Bay where you have to ride and then can choose another one?


----------



## DVC92

I still have a flip phone. Without standby, how will I ever be able to ride REMY?


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

DVC92 said:


> I still have a flip phone. Without standby, how will I ever be able to ride REMY?


Apparently, you won't 
I'm really surprised they decided to go all VQ with Remy.  It doesn't seem to be a ride that would warrant it.


----------



## brightlined

Jrb1979 said:


> Velocicoaster is one of the best coasters.


I've said this already - but USP is Universal Studios Park. UO is the entire resort. I was referring to Fast & Furious and Fallon.


----------



## itf

ENJDisneyFan said:


> Agree - ROTR will be expensive, and I'm (selfishly) less concerned with that one since I've already ridden it multiple times.
> 
> For Remy... I wasn't planning to reserve Epcot for any days as we tend to just hop there at night.  But if I need a park pass to try for the VQ, I'll have to rethink those plans.



ROTR is my biggest concern. I'm staying offsite, and even though we have 3 days booked at HS across our two weeks, I'm concerned that even if I was willing to pay, we wouldn't get to ride because all the reservations will go to onsite. Appreciate there's got to be some perks to being onsite, but still...


----------



## danissmart

wgeo said:


> Just guessing that 7DMT would be 20/person so we would be paying 80 for our family for a FP for a 3 minute ride that used to be free?   $80 for 3 mins- thats just crazy.


This is EXACTLY what the plan is.


----------



## persnickity

luv2cheer92 said:


> Reminds me of FP+. There were a few who loved it from the very beginning, but most hated it when it was first announced. People don't like change.



People don't like to be taken for granted, either.


----------



## Uncle Coaster

wgeo said:


> Just guessing that 7DMT would be 20/person so we would be paying 80 for our family for a FP for a 3 minute ride that used to be free?   $80 for 3 mins- thats just crazy.



I look at it as more like $80 for whatever the length of the line is. We’re saving that much time to be able to do something else. $80 for 90 minutes seems more reasonable to me.


----------



## itf

DVC92 said:


> I still have a flip phone. Without standby, how will I ever be able to ride REMY?



With all this money Disney hope you'll be spending, what's an extra few hundred dollars for a new phone on top?


----------



## jknc

wgeo said:


> Just guessing that 7DMT would be 20/person so we would be paying 80 for our family for a FP for a 3 minute ride that used to be free?   $80 for 3 mins- thats just crazy.


100% insane. But so was paying $$$ for cereal @ BOG for early entry.


----------



## mi*vida*loca

Have they given a price range for tier 1 rides?


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

mi*vida*loca said:


> Have they given a price range for tier 1 rides?


No.  The blog post just states -
_Pricing for this option will vary by date, attraction and park and will be announced closer to launch._


----------



## Delilah1310

I also sent an email - a positive one saying if it works like MaxPass, I believe it will be a success and I am very optimistic about it. 

I also think the deluxe evening extra hours just became a way more valuable perk. With that exclusivity of really low crowds, I won't have to purchase add-on individual attractions ... I can ride the most popular rides via standby with really low wait times during those hours at those parks.


----------



## Cygnus 2112

Apparently their promo videos for this have received over 70% dislikes....perhaps this could lead to some tweaks to this new, awful system. Doubtful though. Also (and I'm sure this has been posted before but I haven't been able to read every post) thanks for showing your appreciation to DVC or AP people by throwing us 1-3 complimentary LL passes per day like the old FP+ system.


----------



## LiteBrite

Delilah1310 said:


> I also sent an email - a positive one saying if it works like MaxPass, I believe it will be a success and I am very optimistic about it.
> 
> I also think the deluxe evening extra hours just became a way more valuable perk. With that exclusivity of really low crowds, I won't have to purchase add-on individual attractions ... I can ride the most popular rides via standby with really low wait times during those hours at those parks.



Here's hoping that lots of deluxe resort guests will think of it this way, and thereby lessen the numbers of people in both the standby lines, and using the paid options.


----------



## Opie100

If this is primarily about reducing complaints from guests that arrive without Fast Passes for top attractions, I wonder how this alternative of paying $80 per ride (family of four) for Tier 1 will be received. I'm not convinced this solves that problem. I think this is primarily about extracting more revenue from guests willing to pay it.


----------



## quandrea

Airb330 said:


> Exactly, if you previously got up at 9AM, went to the pool, then went to the parks now you can no longer guarantee 3 decent rides like you could with FP+. *I would rather the FP+ system be monetized versus Genie+. *Change 60 days to 14 even. The "leveling of the playing field" always means us Disboard/AP/DVC guests get less and less for more money. Sure I can get up at 9AM, go to the parks at 2PM, _MAYBE _get 1-5 Tier 2 rides in with Genie+ and _MAYBE _get the chance to pay $10-$20 to ride space mountain? That is a worse experience and that 'best case ' Genie+ scenario would cost probably $25 a person at minimum. They should have raised ticket rates to cover the $15, kept FP+, and anything past 3 FP+ costs money.


That would have been too simple. Have to make the most convoluted system possible. Under FP+ we never waited in line for anything and, over the course of our trip, we hit every ride we wanted to. Under your solution, people made brain the all inclusive feel, the day is roughly planned in advance and you don’t feel nickel and dimed to death. My park days may very well be over.


----------



## quandrea

Delilah1310 said:


> I also sent an email - a positive one saying if it works like MaxPass, I believe it will be a success and I am very optimistic about it.
> 
> I also think the deluxe evening extra hours just became a way more valuable perk. With that exclusivity of really low crowds, I won't have to purchase add-on individual attractions ... I can ride the most popular rides via standby with really low wait times during those hours at those parks.


I’ll believe that when I see it.


----------



## Lisann

I have read through some of these 60 pages, not all though. 

I believe we are at a point where our ticket is only going to be good to get us in the park.  Everything else seems to be going in the direction of a la carte add-ons. Pretty soon I'll be paying for the privilege of standing in a shorter line for merchandise, then for food, then for fireworks, then for the privilege of standing under the premium shade space, then for "fill in the blank"...you get my point.

I won't be paying extras for these benefits.


----------



## pants

I will wait before passing final judgement.  More than anything Genie seems to be a way to manipulate crowds and even them out throughout the park.  They are currently doing this with inflated wait times.  I will not be blindly trusting Genie recommendations and will more rely on Touring Plans/Lines.  Genie plus seems fine -- surprised it took them this long to charge for shorter lines.  Change is hard. I am sure in 6 months there will be posts about how much Genie improved people's vacations with its serendipitous recommendations.


----------



## ozone81

ENJDisneyFan said:


> Agree - ROTR will be expensive, and I'm (selfishly) less concerned with that one since I've already ridden it multiple times.
> 
> For Remy... I wasn't planning to reserve Epcot for any days as we tend to just hop there at night.  But if I need a park pass to try for the VQ, I'll have to rethink those plans.



Before this was announced i was planning one day in October where i would start out at Hollywood Studios and then hop to Epcot to do Food and Wine and ride Remy before going to Boo Bash.  I wouldn't have had an issue waiting in a long line at Remy because that was the only ride that was a "must do" to ride.  Now I don't know if that will even be a possibility to get to ride it.   Hopefully they allow you to join the Remy virtual queue later in the day if you will be park hopping to Epcot.  Otherwise it looks like i will be forced to pay to ride (if its even available at that time) or save money and not park hop and don't do Food and Wine (which will save me money).  Not liking trying to plan a trip when you don't know what the rules are going to be.


----------



## 2letterwords

Delilah1310 said:


> I also sent an email - a positive one saying if it works like MaxPass, I believe it will be a success and I am very optimistic about it.
> 
> I also think the deluxe evening extra hours just became a way more valuable perk. With that exclusivity of really low crowds, I won't have to purchase add-on individual attractions ... I can ride the most popular rides via standby with really low wait times during those hours at those parks.


I am hoping that those deluxe hours prove to be valuable. We have time before our next trip to see how it all pans out but this was my initial reaction as well.


----------



## palmettostatemom

pants said:


> I will wait before passing final judgement.  More than anything Genie seems to be a way to manipulate crowds and even them out throughout the park.  They are currently doing this with inflated wait times.  I will not be blindly trusting Genie recommendations and will more rely on Touring Plans/Lines.  Genie plus seems fine -- surprised it took them this long to charge for shorter lines.  Change is hard. I am sure in 6 months there will be posts about how much Genie improved people's vacations with its serendipitous recommendations.



This is a concern of mine - if they are already inflating wait times on MDE, what will they do with Genie? Keep inflating to make people think they need to buy Genie+ or IA LL? I don't trust Disney wait times now, what makes them think I will trust on Genie?  If they actually do that, it would be so dishonest and I hope people call them out on it all over so the scheme would get attention.

 And like you, I will probably continue to rely on TP/Lines because they are trustworthy.


----------



## tony67

Really difficult to judge this till its implemented, but there are things I like about it.
(I have not read through the 60 pages but the first dozen or so in this thread)

First  - I do miss the old Paper fast pass system - the worked really well FOR ME  and I would have preferred to see something similar to that without the paper.

One thing I did not like about FP+ was planning so far in advance it was ridiculous.
If you dont stay on property or are a local you are not as boxed out of rides as you were on FP+ IMO
You dont have to know what park you are going to be in on what day 60 days from now.
It does add that "freedom" to just show up it seems at first glance - I do like not having to plan.

I would not be surprised if it gets added to packages for "free" just like DDP did so they can charge rack rate
I would be concerned that the rides are all full up for the day by 9:30 AM for the day 

What happens when the system fails for the first week - will they give people their money back?  yeah Right.

Depending on how this does Id be far more likely to spend a day or two at Disney - I've given it a miss since 2016 and stick to Universal.


----------



## TwoMisfits

wgeo said:


> Just guessing that 7DMT would be 20/person so we would be paying 80 for our family for a FP for a 3 minute ride that used to be free?   $80 for 3 mins- thats just crazy.



That's probably about right, since that's single "Vegas" ride pricing for their roller coasters...of course, almost no one rides those coasters at full price...

EDIT: Of course, you don't pay $120-$150 to enter the Vegas casino 1st...it's only the price of the coaster...


----------



## Cabius

Lisann said:


> I have read through some of these 60 pages, not all though.
> 
> I believe we are at a point where our ticket is only going to be good to get us in the park.  Everything else seems to be going in the direction of a la carte add-ons. Pretty soon I'll be paying for the privilege of standing in a shorter line for merchandise, then for food, then for fireworks, then for the privilege of standing under the premium shade space, then for "fill in the blank"...you get my point.
> 
> I won't be paying extras for these benefits.


If they actually shifted back to a ticket-per-ride system, as in the 50s-70s, with a lower gate entry price, I think that could be a win! It would make guests ration rides with money rather than only queue time, and shift the expectation away from the need to ride as many rides as possible to get your money's worth. Average rides per guest would decrease, and queue times would fall along with it.

That would work for some people, and enrage others. But it would actually make a difference. 

If you think "guests spend too much time in line" is a real problem, there are only three solutions: increase supply, decrease demand, or eliminate standby queues. 

*Increase Supply*
This option is to build a lot more high-capacity attractions so that guests are spread out between more queues. (This likely wouldn't actually work, because it would attract more guests and the balance of supply/demand would not change.)

*Decrease Demand*
This option is to decrease guest demand for attractions by (a) limiting attendance or (b) shifting back to a pay-per-ride system so guests ride fewer attractions on average.

*Eliminate Standby*
Or if you really want to eliminate time in line, you just shift to FP/LLP/VQ for every single seat and eliminate standby altogether. Guests still spend as much time waiting between rides, but now they don't do it in line. (Of course, the physical infrastructure wasn't built for this, and many guests would be furious).

If you aren't increasing the number of butts you can put in seats, or decreasing the number of butts that want to get in seats, you aren't changing the dynamic for the system as a whole. All something like Genie+ can do is make zero-sum shifts from some guests to others. In this case: from the savvy but budget-conscious über-planners and local APs, to the less-savvy but wealthy first-time / once-in-a-lifetime guest.

It makes sense for Disney, but I don't appreciate the gaslighting that this somehow makes things better for everybody rather than encouraging what they call "a more favorable guest mix".


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

ozone81 said:


> Before this was announced i was planning one day in October where i would start out at Hollywood Studios and then hop to Epcot to do Food and Wine and ride Remy before going to Boo Bash.  I wouldn't have had an issue waiting in a long line at Remy because that was the only ride that was a "must do" to ride.  Now I don't know if that will even be a possibility to get to ride it.   Hopefully they allow you to join the Remy virtual queue later in the day if you will be park hopping to Epcot.  Otherwise it looks like i will be forced to pay to ride (if its even available at that time) or save money and not park hop and don't do Food and Wine (which will save me money).  *Not liking trying to plan a trip when you don't know what the rules are going to be.*


Exactly!  Especially the bolded part… I just want to be able to plan accordingly at this point.


----------



## LiteBrite

I just remembered seeing pictures in the last month or so of FP kiosks being put in place in the parks - are they still there, and if so, does anybody think that they're intending to use them for Genie+/LL?


----------



## Lisann

Too much thinking for my vacay. My head hurts.


----------



## Opie100

luv2cheer92 said:


> Reminds me of FP+. There were a few who loved it from the very beginning, but most hated it when it was first announced. People don't like change.


Not when it means paying more for less value, as one would expect.


----------



## 5DisneyNuts

twincruisers said:


> I also see the most likely scenario is that your stuck in a 130 min stand-by line at Splash Mountain and Genie says "upgrade for $15 for a 15 min wait". This is where I see Genie going the route of mobile gaming and pushing the "micro-transaction" as a convenience/time saver.


How will this work?  The party would have to back track out of the line then enter the other line? 
Sounds messy.


----------



## DVC92

2letterwords said:


> I am hoping that those deluxe hours prove to be valuable. We have time before our next trip to see how it all pans out but this was my initial reaction as well.


 Are the extra hours going to continue into November and December? 

Even if they do, will REMY still be a virtual queue during these hours?


----------



## twincruisers

5DisneyNuts said:


> How will this work?  The party would have to back track out of the line then enter the other line?
> Sounds messy.


Yeah they would buy the G+ upgrade and then the party would be directed to the LL entrance to redeem their first ride. If you are at the beginning of that 2 hour wait usually getting out of line is just go under the rope and into the public walkways, so I imagine it won't be too bad until you get indoors.


----------



## 2letterwords

DVC92 said:


> Are the extra hours going to continue into November and December?
> 
> Even if they do, will REMY still be a virtual queue during these hours?


I don't know. I asked the same question a while ago. I hope they do. And re: Remy, same question. That's why I'm glad I have time to see how it all works and can (hopefully) plan accordingly.


----------



## Raychell

Super long post - sorry! We’re doing all four parks in two days of park hopping so we can enjoy days off to relax and do other things. We are on site, group of ten. I’ve been gaming our days out using the Touring Plans app. Yes, I am a crazy planner, but it helps avert SO MANY arguments and wasted time in the parks.

That said, here’s where LL helps and where it doesn’t.

MK: Will hop into park in the PM and will also attend Xmas After Hours another night. Could LL Buzz, Pan, Haunted, Peoplemover, Jungle, Pirates, Dumbo, Speedway, Under the Sea, and Philharmagic. Do we NEED LL for all of those? No. Will it save us time during a shortened day? Yes, but my head will be in a phone, too. And what if all the really useful times are gone by the time we get to the park? We can catch things we miss during the after hours. Already planning to do Space, Splash, Mine Train, and BTMRR at the after hours to avoid waits. Will not spend $LL for the same reason. Would definitely $LL for reserved FW seating though, but it doesn’t look like an option.

HS: One morning with Early Entry. Will have 6+ people trying for ROTR BG so banking on an early one. Original plan was to EE RD Slinky, then do MFSR next, saving MMRR for right before hopping out of park. We don’t have a lot of interest in TOT/RNR. So - we could LL MFSR, MMRR, TSM and actually have the option to do TOT/RNR for the few who want to. LLs would be incredibly useful for Jedi Training, Indy, Frozen, and B&B (assuming all are back). I do not want to waste precious minutes queuing up for a seat at shows. If shows are not on LL maybe the $$ and a little extra is better spent on $LL for MFSR or MMRR.

EP: Hopping into park for the PM. We are focusing on the World Showcase and don’t care about TT. Touring Plans shows evening waits <20 min for Seas/Nemo, Spaceship Earth, and Soarin, and Frozen at 22 min. The kicker for Epcot is that the only way we could do Remy would be $LL because we would miss any chance to get in the free virtual queue (assuming it works like ROTR and have to have an EP res for the day). We’re also very food-oriented so we’re probably not going to spend $ on $LL that could be spent at F&W or Space 220. So, we just give up on Remy?

AK: One morning with early entry. Already planned to EE RD FOP, Na’Vi, and the Safari. LL only helps us get on Kali later when it’s actually hot, and Everest which not everyone is interested in. Yes, we could use it for Dinosaur and Bug but those are both low interest and low waits. Again, would definitely use LL for Lion King and Nemo. So, maybe $$ better spent on $LL FOP to avoid the chaos of RD.

Conclusion: If we pay for Genie+ that helps us most at MK and HS. So that puts us doing HS/MK day Genie+ and AK/EP day with possible $LL FOP and Remy. It just really doesn’t seem like the $15 option would help with enough lines in AK and EP, but $LL could. UNLESS you factor in riding multiple times. But with our limited time we probably wouldn’t do that anyway - we’d take more rest breaks instead.

I think LL coupled with the Genie planner is probably a great thing for families spending multiple full days in the parks who don’t want to plan ahead and/or have certain rides they want to do over and over. But for a large group with limited hours, where it seems like at least one person really wants to do nearly every attraction at least once, I’m not sure it will help much. ESPECIALLY because I can’t set it up ahead of time, it actually makes being the planner MORE difficult. I personally can’t afford to gamble $1500 in daily park passes on a new service that won’t get us to everything we want and might possibly send us running all over the park as wait times fluctuate throughout the day. I’ve done that with the old paper FP, no thanks.

I could cry after putting together our plans. I wanted to be DONE with this by now and ready to make ADRs and park reservations!!


----------



## Lisann

Yeah, I think I'll stick with Touring Plans and/or arrive early to the parks.  Seems to always work no matter what Disney rolls out.


----------



## Miffy

Not that I know anything more about Genie or G+ than I did yesterday, but now that I've had a chance to sleep on it, my thoughts are:

(1) If G+ were $15 _per family/group_ instead of $15/person, that would make it a lot more appealing. I have no idea how a family with more than zero children is going to be able to afford this.

(2) If ride availability for G+ is released using the drip method (i.e., continuous release of times during the day and not releasing all the times at 7 a.m.), this could possibly work out pretty well. If not, then not.

(3) How will G+ affect RD? Maybe it won't. That's what I'm hoping for.

(4) I've already mentally set aside $100 for FoP so I can ride it every day of my next visit without having to RD or wait in a long line. Of course, if my estimate of what the a la carte price will be is low, then . . .

Just some random thoughts.


----------



## Violetspider

If the G+ LL turns out to really be only one at a time (no stacking), the time between LL rides could be very extreme by the afternoon. Time slots for popular tier 2 rides could very well be exhausted by 1PM-ish on many days, meaning late return times (this is based on how slots were distributed at DL with the MaxPass system). I'm trying to mentally prepare for that $15 getting me three to four desired rides. Anything beyond that would be a bonus. Luckily I'm a big HM fan. Multiple rides on their tend to sooth my Disney damaged pocket book.


Side note: Remy being VQ really messes with my trip plans. Heck, I'll be in-flight during the drop on my first Epcot day. That just stinks. Only one other day to potentially snag a slot in the queue. I was perfectly happy with waiting standby for that ride. Typical!


----------



## honeymo78

LiteBrite said:


> I just remembered seeing pictures in the last month or so of FP kiosks being put in place in the parks - are they still there, and if so, does anybody think that they're intending to use them for Genie+/LL?


I have no idea if those kiosks are still there, but I could see those kiosks being available for guests without a smart phone to purchase G+ and get their passes and/or buy $LL, much like how people could use the kiosks for FP+ if they didn't have a phone.


----------



## a1tinkfans

Imho…It’s a MONEY GRAB that ALSO puts you in your Very UnDisney Like place, Down A Notch .Happiest Place No More. those that can Afford the Xtra cost… that used to be Free …are now Pushed Behind those that can Afford to Jump Ahead. If One is waiting on standby like the rest of the ticket paying guests and the Lightening guests walk up.. well… ur now BACK even further Before that Choice of using Free FP was just that, a choice. Seems Disney just doesn’t care anymore. And their so called marketing Inclusive, Happy Place for Families …has gotten run over by Pure GREED. it’s rampant Everywhere. the Perks of onsite visits is  gone, prices for tickets, merchandise and Food has Increased, parking fees, no ME, loss of Xtra hours, more parties and less park time ( WHERES the tix option for those Reduced hour party days?)  the Service is Lowered, you Get Less but Pay More Overall. 

While I can afford it and am, strike that… Was…a long time AP holder and Fla Res  I just think the Overall Feel of Disney has taken a Deep Dive. That Xtra Special Something offered up thru Their Own devices/marketing etc is Gone 
Let’s not talk about how AP holders are now not needed as a target audience because they don’t spend enough  ..thinking  So wrong lol. 
Haven’t been back, didn’t renew, more room for you all lol.
Disney is a Choice/want certainly Not a need so I’ll vacation/visit elsewhere with my money.  I’m good with that. Stay Safe All!


----------



## jjjones325

My 2 cents.
1) Money grab?  I mean, of course.
2) Will all the slots be gone by 1 PM?  Doubtful.  Granted, there weren't a ton of choices at 6 PM, but you could almost always grab SOMETHING and that was when everybody had access.  Not everybody is going to pay the $15 for G+.
3) Since my last Disney trip (2017) I've been to Dollywood, 4 of the Cedar Fair parks, and Universal.  Those you really pay to skip the lines.  I chose not to pay, but still managed to do everything I wanted.  I think ultimately the same will happen at DIsney.
4) But yes, taking something that used to be free and now charging for it (like all the other stuff Disney has done in the past few years) is stinky.


----------



## mom2rtk

twincruisers said:


> I also see the most likely scenario is that your stuck in a 130 min stand-by line at Splash Mountain and Genie says "upgrade for $15 for a 15 min wait". This is where I see Genie going the route of mobile gaming and pushing the "micro-transaction" as a convenience/time saver.





5DisneyNuts said:


> How will this work?  The party would have to back track out of the line then enter the other line?
> Sounds messy.


Plus I don't believe Disney will have tech that works consistently with something like that.

Remember all the "surprise and delight" fastpasses that were supposed to be part of FP+? If lines were long in one area of the park, they were supposed to offer FPs to move people to the other side of the park. Never happened.


----------



## HopperFan

Miffy said:


> Not that I know anything more about Genie or G+ than I did yesterday, but now that I've had a chance to sleep on it, my thoughts are:
> 
> (1) If G+ were $15 _per family/group_ instead of $15/person, that would make it a lot more appealing. I have no idea how a family with more than zero children is going to be able to afford this.
> 
> (2) If ride availability for G+ is released using the drip method (i.e., continuous release of times during the day and not releasing all the times at 7 a.m.), this could possibly work out pretty well. If not, then not.
> 
> (3) How will G+ affect RD? Maybe it won't. That's what I'm hoping for.
> 
> (4) I've already mentally set aside $100 for FoP so I can ride it every day of my next visit without having to RD or wait in a long line. Of course, if my estimate of what the a la carte price will be is low, then . . .
> 
> Just some random thoughts.



I'll play 

1) It would be overrun at that price per family and then how do you determine a family, people offsite especially could group together.  Last month our family of 6 had a very basic nothing exciting meal at Rose & Crown and spent $225.00.   Now we will skip that and we have covered two days with plenty of change for snacks.  If folks have a set budget (I usually do) then just give something up that wasn't important.

2) I agree it will be tricky depending on how they release them.  What I'm hanging hope on is that I have to remember no one is booking 3 FP+ per day in advance before arrival. I was always pretty successful at rolling one at time all day long - now there should be a much bigger pool since none are on hold.  And since people have to pay there may be less using the "FP+" system.  The numbers are in our favor, what we need is Disney to release them over time, not over night.

3) I think it's going to make rope drop MISERABLE. All of us who are night owls, sleep in and arrive at 10 or later are now going to be at rope drop because we can't get on the G+ system until we are in the park. I think this is an area they used no foresight and might have to adjust like ... let us purchase for length of trip not have to do daily.

4) I hear you, my budget will include money for the virtual rides because I just don't feel like I'm going to be lucky enough for a reservation.

SO. MANY. RANDOM. THOUGHTS.


----------



## RoseGold

The more I think about it, the more I realize what an entirely different direction this is.

The dining plan.  The dining plan never made sense to me. I didn't use it.  It cost people more money overall than I thought you should even spend on food and was a bad value for most people.  But people still bought it because they liked to pre-pay it or just didn't like being nickel and dimed for every meal.  I still don't get the dining plan.  I just pay for dinner.

Genie is like the worst possible combo.  He wants to charge you $20 for Slinky Dog AND he doesn't let you preplan or prepay for everything.  You have to think about and handle every microtransaction while wrangling your kids and dropping another $20 here and there, and maybe you don't feel like going on Pirates right now.  Some of these are planned at 7AM, I guess some of these Genie is going to wing for you.  At least a prepaid pass like Universal's, even if it's expensive, you know what you are getting, like the dining plan.


----------



## CBMom01

I agree that Disney is pricing most people out of the parks, but I don't feel like that part is new.  

My big issue is that now I can't plan the days for our upcoming trip.  With FP+ even if they had turned it into a pay service, at least I could have decided my daily schedule and budget ahead of time.  Now I will have to do that (at best) at 7am every day that we are there.  I have no idea if I'm going to want to pay that $15pp/day because I don't know what time slots might be available.  Same for the LL Tier 1 rides.  

So not only have they made it more expensive, they've made it so that I have no choice but to let the MDE app plan my days.

I said before that I was done with Disney but an opportunity came up and I foolishly told the kids we were going. This really is the last time.


----------



## Sargeant Tibbs

Lisann said:


> Yeah, I think I'll stick with Touring Plans and/or arrive early to the parks.  Seems to always work no matter what Disney rolls out.



I'm not so sure this time. It seems to me that a big part of the goal here is to get guests into the parks earlier and to stay longer. If we're only getting one LL pass at a time, and have to wait a period of time for the next one, the only way to get a decent amount of rides in might be to rope drop. Not to mention they already have us up at 7am, if on property. I think we might see touring styles shift dramatically because of this. We'll see what standby wait times look like when this rolls out. That is the key right there to how much this is going to have an effect on everything.


----------



## elgerber

I have missed some pages, but I wonder what is considered on-site for the 7am LL purchases.  If you have a reservation for that day, but haven't yet checked in, do you think that will count?


----------



## Jothmas

eleven24 said:


> At that point, why not just have a big ticket booth and sell tickets for rides?


I don’t think there would ever be a return to paper. It will be convenient to book and pay for attractions online as needed.


----------



## Cliffside

To me this all seems so sad…we are empty nesters and DVC members..DH usually jokingly says he would like to sell now it feels like he is not joking…thank goodness our DD is grown …it just seems so sad is all they do is take away..I just remember making so many trips during the Year of a million dreams which went on for quite a bit longer…that was awesome..they were just wanting to spread the Magic and so much more..now if you want to ride certain rides you need to cough up cash( interesting how they haven’t given us numbers on that) and what kind of surge pricing will there be..is it by day, by hour I feel like I am trying to book an Uber during the rain in NYC.

and I know Disney is a publicly traded company that is beholden to their share holders which I am one…

but it is just sad ..we Will probably not sell both our DVC contracts maybe one…we will probably just take one trip a year and not buy AP’s…
but that seems what customers they are trying to attract.


----------



## mousestruck

Skippyboo said:


> Theoretically the first available BTM slot should not 2 pm because there is no advanced booking anymore. All the rides refresh each morning. You’re not picking from the leftover slots from other guests like you were when doing FP+ booking.


Yes, that does seem logical.  I guess we'll have to watch and see what happens.  I'm eager to hear first reports of the new system once it's in place.


----------



## mousestruck

Delilah1310 said:


> I also sent an email - a positive one saying if it works like MaxPass, I believe it will be a success and I am very optimistic about it.
> 
> I also think the deluxe evening extra hours just became a way more valuable perk. With that exclusivity of really low crowds, I won't have to purchase add-on individual attractions ... I can ride the most popular rides via standby with really low wait times during those hours at those parks.


Good point!


----------



## DVC92

I still have some E tickets left from 1972. I should be able to use them.


----------



## Lisann

DVC92 said:


> I still have some E tickets left from 1972. I should be able to use them.


I know, right?!

This is just all too much for me. I don't want to work this hard for my vacation.


----------



## cdurham1

Instead of talking about whether we like the announcement ot not, maybe we could talk about thoughts around touring strategies. 

For me, the most typical situation will be staying on site, wanting to accomplish as much as possible due to limited number of days, and willing to pay for the IASs.  So, I think

1.  Buy both available IAS's at 7am
2.  Get first LL at 7am for pretty much whatever is earliest time
3.  RD at the 30 minute early admission time for the most popular attraction you didn't already get the LL for.  So I am thinking BTM, PPF, JC, for example.
4.  Depending on when you get done, wait times, and when your first LL is scheduled, possibly squeeze in another standby line attraction.
5.  Try to be as close to on time at the beginning of each LL window so you can start searching for the next LL as you walk the queue after you scan in.
6.  If you are planning on an afternoon break, hopefully use that to your advantage by looking for a little later LL before you leave for your break for a moderately high demand ride.  For example, if you are leaving at 1pm for a break, you might find it easier to find a HM or POC at 5pm.  I imagine the "later day" spots will be pretty open as people will not be willing to have their one spot so far out, locking up that LL spot they could use for something more immediate.

I will probably be staying mostly at DVC, so our afternoon breaks may be a little longer with plans on taking full advantage of the evening hours.

Btw, does anyone have any reason to think that Genie+ will be used during extra hours


----------



## twincruisers

I'd add in the VQ for RotR or Remy at the top of that list, but seems about right.

If we're paying for G+, I would assume it would go for the whole day inclusive of EMH or EEH, but that's something that will need Disney's official confirmation.


----------



## MakiraMarlena

as far as booking, if I wanted something on a VQ I would do that first at 7, then buy the IAS if you want one or two, and then pick the first Genie + reservation.

I'm actually not in agreement, I don't believe G+ will apply outside of the posted regular park hours. Won't know until WDW says so, though


----------



## Jonfw2

The process to get here has been slow at times and very quick at other times- such as now-, but Disney truly is just for the elite at this point.

I mean, it is what it is- things in life cost money, I have no beef with that.  But the company can't pretend that Walt's vision still exists.  Disney Parks are happy/magical places for the upper middle class and above.


----------



## Raya

Does anyone know if the Genie+ service will be in place for hard ticket events such as After hours events, MNSSHP, or MVMCP? I'm wondering if a trip of only hard ticket events might be a better touring planning over a trip with regular tickets & Genie+.


----------



## RoseGold

Jonfw2 said:


> The process to get here has been slow at times and very quick at other times- such as now-, but Disney truly is just for the elite at this point.
> 
> I mean, it is what it is- things in life cost money, I have no beef with that.  But the company can't pretend that Walt's vision still exists.  Disney Parks are happy/magical places for the upper middle class and above.



I think I'm even OK with that if it's transparent and planned out.  Everyone knows what the Universal pass costs and what Be Our Guest costs, and you can choose it or not.  Maybe I would pay $20 for Slinky Dog and match it up to my dining.  But this idea of paying on the fly for everything with Uber surge pricing or $15 to get out of this line now is a real turn off.  It's a lot to figure out at 7AM on your vacation.  And Disney IT, well, that has never inspired much confidence.

Maybe there are times you'd be willing to pay to get out of the line.  I guess we will see how many times that works.  $5 to get on Hall of Presidents in the rain!


----------



## mouserrificmom

Cliffside said:


> To me this all seems so sad…we are empty nesters and DVC members..DH usually jokingly says he would like to sell now it feels like he is not joking…thank goodness our DD is grown …it just seems so sad is all they do is take away..I just remember making so many trips during the Year of a million dreams which went on for quite a bit longer…that was awesome..they were just wanting to spread the Magic and so much more..now if you want to ride certain rides you need to cough up cash( interesting how they haven’t given us numbers on that) and what kind of surge pricing will there be..is it by day, by hour I feel like I am trying to book an Uber during the rain in NYC.
> 
> and I know Disney is a publicly traded company that is beholden to their share holders which I am one…
> 
> but it is just sad ..we Will probably not sell both our DVC contracts maybe one…we will probably just take one trip a year and not buy AP’s…
> but that seems what customers they are trying to attract.


Year of a Million Dreams was my very FAVORITE!  I remember holding my breath as I saw the tell tell uniform (Khaki pants, sky blue shirt) of cast members counting people walking through turnstiles and just KNOWING there was a magic number they were working towards to gift someone an overnight stay in the castle and so wanting it to be me! My heart skipped a beat when after seeing them standing at the top of the Star Tours queue they boarded the ship we had just boarded and the excitement was palpable!  I thought for SURE someone on that ship was going to get a stay but instead they gave each of us a magical fast pass lanyard that had a breakoff for all of the "top tier" rides in DHS at that time....we received so many magical surprises on the trips we took during that promotion that just enhanced how fabulous all of those vacations were back then. I sure do miss those days......we felt valued as guests, not prodded as willing customers.


----------



## Violetspider

Jonfw2 said:


> Disney Parks are happy/magical places for the upper middle class and above.



Or for the folks that are willing to live in the upper lower class the other 350+ days a year they are not at Disney...


----------



## BrandonH

The first part of the announcement excited me. It sounded like a very flexible Touring Plans sort of experience, and Disney would be able to access more data simultaneously and historically to help them.

The part about no more free FastPass rides, though, has me very concerned. I want to be able to ride/experience most of the big attractions without paying extra or waiting in a bunch of long lines. I'm willing to wait and see how people's experiences go once the LL system starts, but I am not very optimistic right now.


----------



## MMSM

Cliffside said:


> To me this all seems so sad…we are empty nesters and DVC members..DH usually jokingly says he would like to sell now it feels like he is not joking…thank goodness our DD is grown …it just seems so sad is all they do is take away..I just remember making so many trips during the Year of a million dreams which went on for quite a bit longer…that was awesome..they were just wanting to spread the Magic and so much more..now if you want to ride certain rides you need to cough up cash( interesting how they haven’t given us numbers on that) and what kind of surge pricing will there be..is it by day, by hour I feel like I am trying to book an Uber during the rain in NYC.
> 
> and I know Disney is a publicly traded company that is beholden to their share holders which I am one…
> 
> but it is just sad ..we Will probably not sell both our DVC contracts maybe one…we will probably just take one trip a year and not buy AP’s…
> but that seems what customers they are trying to attract.


This.  I was just saying that I am so happy my kids are older.  I feel bad for families with young ones that wanted to do Disney.  We were going in April and my teenage daughter and husband were going to do HS for one day.  We would rent and stay w DVC.  Every time I priced out Universal they seemed so much more and there were so many extras.  Now, I am rethinking about going there and knowing the said price of the trip. I do not like the uncertainty of how much rides will be for LL.  I don’t want to buy tickets until I know for sure the prices.


----------



## erionm

Raya said:


> Does anyone know if the Genie+ service will be in place for hard ticket events such as After hours events, MNSSHP, or MVMCP? I'm wondering if a trip of only hard ticket events might be a better touring planning over a trip with regular tickets & Genie+.


Unlikely.  FP+ was never available during them.


----------



## bcinohio

I really hate to have to have my phone out all the time and like the magic bands.  I have one from our trip last year and was planning on using it again this Dec for our trip.  Did anyone hear if the Genie+ will work with the magic bands or just the phones?
Thanks.


----------



## soniam

DVC92 said:


> I still have some E tickets left from 1972. I should be able to use them.


Have you tried selling them on Ebay as collectibles? It might pay for Genie+ or an individual attraction.


----------



## MakiraMarlena

You're going to need a phone to book your Genie+ selections, unless they decide to put kiosks or CMs with ipads in the park for guests to consult. Too early to tell if they will do that. However I'm guessing you will be able to scan in for your lightning lane using your MB (too early to tell about that either)


----------



## MakiraMarlena

Disney hasn't said, but traditionally FP wasn't available for use outside of official publicly posted park hours.


----------



## Airb330

Disney must know they’ve upset the planning population. I almost wonder if there will be a $25 option in the future to “New Genie+ magic! Wish for and schedule Two Tier 2 rides in advance, such as favorites like Haunted Mansion or Pirates of the Caribbean. Feel relaxed knowing two of your favorite attractions are scheduled without any early wake ups or uncertainty!”

I can see the email from Disney now touting it.


----------



## bcinohio

I was just wondering about scanning in for the ride.  I figured to book I would need my phone.  Hopefully will be able to use the bands.  Thanks


----------



## Grumpy by Birth

soniam said:


> Have you tried selling them on Ebay as collectibles? It might pay for Genie+ or an individual attraction.


That gives me an idea... they could set up a "pop-up" clinic outside the turnstiles for people to sell plasma, kidneys, etc. so they can afford to ride the rides!


----------



## disneyseniors

After reading alot of these threads, I think it boils down to this:
The guests now feel like they are not wanted or valued anymore.  It is like we are sheep being herded in a more expensive direction to fit their purposes.  
If WDW made the guest feel valued, then paying the higher prices might not be such a deterrent.   
At Universal I feel like a valued guest; like they really want me there.  Their AP's are great.  You can ride what you want over and over if you want, and use them any way you want.  
I don't know what the answer is for wDW right now, but they had better figure it out soon, because the brand name just keeps getting more mud slung on it with each new guest gouging experience.  Once the brand name is ruined, it is difficult to get it back, even for WDW, IMO>


----------



## bcinohio

I don't remember reading if you would have the 1hr window with the Genie+ passes like you did with the FP's.  Did anyone see if you did?  I have been reading a lot the last few days and may have missed it.
Thanks


----------



## Heather07438

It looks like going forward WDW is being more careful about hard ticket attendance.  

Would make sense overall as they bring this type of system in to play.  They'll need to avoid people paying for g+ during the day and then attending a party at night only to find their g+ is no longer good _and _attraction lines are crazy after they just spent all that money. Parties started getting out of hand and I think WDW listened to the biggest complaint: too crowded.


----------



## DaniMoon

I'm trying to remain optimistic that the Disney savvy DISers will figure out how to use the system to their advantage.    But it is disheartening.   Our trips are usually 10-14 days, so I foresee they will be shorter in the future to stretch our dollars.   I'm not sure I'm at the "take my money elsewhere" point, we've just become Disney diehards over the last 8 years, but who knows.   Our next trip won't be at least til 10/22 (daughter's reschedule 2020 girl scout trip) and was thinking going as a family.   Time will tell.


----------



## twincruisers

Airb330 said:


> Disney must know they’ve upset the planning population. I almost wonder if there will be a $25 option in the future to “New Genie+ magic! Wish for and schedule Two Tier 2 rides in advance, such as favorites like Haunted Mansion or Pirates of the Caribbean. Feel relaxed knowing two of your favorite attractions are scheduled without any early wake ups or uncertainty!”
> 
> I can see the email from Disney now touting it.


Without a doubt the planners and high-usage AP holders are the ones they are taking away from and they are trying to help the first-timers and non-planners to do more while making more money. They don't want to raise admission prices as they don't want attendance to drop, so this is the only way to pack more people and extract more profit.


----------



## MrBellatrixLestrange

Airb330 said:


> Disney must know they’ve upset the planning population. I almost wonder if there will be a $25 option in the future to “New Genie+ magic! Wish for and schedule Two Tier 2 rides in advance, such as favorites like Haunted Mansion or Pirates of the Caribbean. Feel relaxed knowing two of your favorite attractions are scheduled without any early wake ups or uncertainty!”
> 
> I can see the email from Disney now touting it.


I don't think there's any question they're going to tweak the system in the future and I'll lay odds that the changes won't reduce the cost.


----------



## disneyworldsk

i am absolutely fine with paying for perks. i pay more for tickets at other places if i don't want nose bleed seats. my issue is the 7 a.m. wake time and i think resort guests based on tiers should get LL tickets for a certain number of attractions free


----------



## chalee94

garris3404 said:


> I just went and disliked all Genie related videos.  Maybe Disney will notice?





Cygnus 2112 said:


> Apparently their promo videos for this have received over 70% dislikes....perhaps this could lead to some tweaks to this new, awful system. Doubtful though. Also (and I'm sure this has been posted before but I haven't been able to read every post) thanks for showing your appreciation to DVC or AP people by throwing us 1-3 complimentary LL passes per day like the old FP+ system.



I think y'all can save your social media likes for stopping racism and human trafficking.  

Disney is only going to care if it winds up hurting revenues.


----------



## chalee94

disneyworldsk said:


> i am absolutely fine with paying for perks. i pay more for tickets at other places if i don't want nose bleed seats. my issue is the 7 a.m. wake time and i think resort guests based on tiers should get LL tickets for a certain number of attractions (included).



I'm still conflicted overall. But I do agree that they should allow advance booking (with onsite guests getting a little head start like usual).


----------



## RoseGold

cdurham1 said:


> 1. Buy both available IAS's at 7am
> 2. Get first LL at 7am for pretty much whatever is earliest time
> 3. RD at the 30 minute early admission time for the most popular attraction you didn't already get the LL for. So I am thinking BTM, PPF, JC, for example.



If LL doesn't include the Tier 1 rides, those are going to be all standby lines.  That means you have to either pony up the $20, rope drop 7D, or ride it standby.  The question becomes what happens to the 7D with no Fast Pass and no LL tier.  I'm not sure how Rope Drop fits into this will all the classes of guests and maybe or maybe not Genie is up by then.

If you paid $15 for LL and Genie says to go skip the line at Pirates, you are going to do that, not stand in line with the cheap people at 7D.  To me, this leads to two strategies.  Either pay the $15 and stick to Tier 2, or don't pay and go standby/a la carte.  Mixing the strategies of LL and a la carte doesn't make sense to me.

If enough people are in the Tier 2 system, or if the a la carte is expensive enough, 7D might actually have a moving, pleasant standby line, like it did in Covid times.  That's not a terrible outcome to a cheap, standby person.  In a sense, that makes $30 a la carte more appealing than $5 a la carte.

I'm never getting up at 7AM on vacation.  So, I guess we will see you on the carousel.


----------



## luv2cheer92

Idk, I'm an avid, 100% type A, incredibly detailed planner. Not always out of necessity, I just thoroughly enjoy planning. And I don't have a problem with this.


----------



## Gordo Gato

Has a start date been announced?


----------



## raidermatt

CBMom01 said:


> I agree that Disney is pricing most people out of the parks, but I don't feel like that part is new.



True, it's not new.  But it is certainly accelerating.



> My big issue is that now I can't plan the days for our upcoming trip.  With FP+ even if they had turned it into a pay service, at least I could have decided my daily schedule and budget ahead of time.  Now I will have to do that (at best) at 7am every day that we are there.  I have no idea if I'm going to want to pay that $15pp/day because I don't know what time slots might be available.  Same for the LL Tier 1 rides.
> 
> So not only have they made it more expensive, they've made it so that I have no choice but to let the MDE app plan my days.
> 
> I said before that I was done with Disney but an opportunity came up and I foolishly told the kids we were going. This really is the last time.



I agree, this does actually make planning more difficult.  We are going to have to "trust" we will be able to do what we want based on whatever trend information is available from places like TouringPlans.  Come to think of it, this could actually drive more people to 3rd party planning services.  With the 3 per day advance FP's, a guest could at least make a skeleton of a plan they could be assured was in place.  Now there is nothing you can do until day of.

That is until phase 2 of Genie+ is announced, where you can schedule LL attractions in advance again.  For an additional fee of course.  Or maybe it will be a Deluxe resort perk.  But I can't see Disney not finding a way to further monetize the need some guests have to plan in advance.  A need which Disney has cultivated for years now btw, with advance FP's, 6 month ADRs, etc.

Personally I didn't mind winging it after the initial 3 FP's were used.  But I could still be sure we were going to get on the major rides at least once during each trip.


----------



## mi*vida*loca

https://blogmickey.com/2021/08/gues...y-genie-starting-at-midnight-on-day-of-visit/


----------



## Jonfw2

bcinohio said:


> I don't remember reading if you would have the 1hr window with the Genie+ passes like you did with the FP's.  Did anyone see if you did?  I have been reading a lot the last few days and may have missed it.
> Thanks


I don't believe it's been mentioned officially, but you have to think it would be similar.


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

Gordo Gato said:


> Has a start date been announced?


No - just “fall”


----------



## raidermatt

luv2cheer92 said:


> Idk, I'm an avid, 100% type A, incredibly detailed planner. Not always out of necessity, I just thoroughly enjoy planning. And I don't have a problem with this.



Hard to reconcile those two concepts.  If you really truly enjoy and want to make detailed plans, you will not be able to do so.  So either you are not as 100% type A as you think you are, or you are going to start getting the shakes as you approach your next trip.


----------



## Miffy

What is IAS? I feel like Forky: So very very lost. In the woods, with no hope of ever being found!


----------



## Jonfw2

raidermatt said:


> Hard to reconcile those two concepts.  If you really truly enjoy and want to make detailed plans, you will not be able to do so.  So either you are not as 100% type A as you think you are, or you are going to start getting the shakes as you approach your next trip.


I think she's saying that despite being a planner, she's okay with this.


----------



## Jonfw2

Miffy said:


> What is IAS? I feel like Forky: So very very lost. In the woods, with no hope of ever being found!


The Israeli secret police, I think.


----------



## sheilafri

Mystify said:


> I’m going to have to take a special course just to be able to use this system.  It’s one thing to take away what was free and put a price on it but, it’s another when you make it so complicated to use.  This is not a vacation any longer.


I agree but I think it’s been quite complicated for a number of years now. It’s just that everyone has to learn the new system now, not just the newbies.


----------



## mi*vida*loca

Too many new acronyms !


----------



## luv2cheer92

Jonfw2 said:


> I think she's saying that despite being a planner, she's okay with this.


Yep, exactly what I'm saying.


----------



## luv2cheer92

Miffy said:


> What is IAS? I feel like Forky: So very very lost. In the woods, with no hope of ever being found!


Individual Attraction Selection. The rides that cost extra, not part of Genie+,  to get access to LL.


----------



## Jrb1979

MrBellatrixLestrange said:


> I don't think there's any question they're going to tweak the system in the future and I'll lay odds that the changes won't reduce the cost.


Agreed. I doubt it will ever be a perk for anyone. They will just offer room discounts or free dining instead.


----------



## chalee94

raidermatt said:


> True, it's not new.  But it [pricing most people out of the parks] is certainly accelerating.



Well, to be fair. It's trying to create more tiers.

There has been the option for a while to get a VIP tour for $3000 per person to get a better experience.

Now you can still pay for the ticket to get in and be done with it...or you can improve the experience by opening up your virtual wallet for a little (or a whole lot) over the course of your stay...

It does feel like nickel and dime-ing. It will be very frustrating for middle class families. But whether the park experience will feel like complete garbage for nonG+ visitors is still up in the air a bit.


----------



## Miffy

luv2cheer92 said:


> Individual Attraction Selection. The rides that cost extra, not part of Genie+,  to get access to LL.


Thank you!


----------



## Jrb1979

raidermatt said:


> True, it's not new.  But it is certainly accelerating.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, this does actually make planning more difficult.  We are going to have to "trust" we will be able to do what we want based on whatever trend information is available from places like TouringPlans.  Come to think of it, this could actually drive more people to 3rd party planning services.  With the 3 per day advance FP's, a guest could at least make a skeleton of a plan they could be assured was in place.  Now there is nothing you can do until day of.
> 
> That is until phase 2 of Genie+ is announced, where you can schedule LL attractions in advance again.  For an additional fee of course.  Or maybe it will be a Deluxe resort perk.  But I can't see Disney not finding a way to further monetize the need some guests have to plan in advance.  A need which Disney has cultivated for years now btw, with advance FP's, 6 month ADRs, etc.
> 
> Personally I didn't mind winging it after the initial 3 FP's were used.  But I could still be sure we were going to get on the major rides at least once during each trip.


I doubt advanced booking comes back. Especially with the price of the individual rides changing in price depending on how busy the park is.  The days of it being tied to resort stay is over.


----------



## raidermatt

Jonfw2 said:


> I think she's saying that despite being a planner, she's okay with this.



I understand what she is saying.  But if she is okay with this, she is not really a planner.  Which is perfectly fine, many are not planners.


----------



## raidermatt

chalee94 said:


> Well, to be fair. It's trying to create more tiers.
> 
> There has been the option for a while to get a VIP tour for $3000 per person to get a better experience.
> 
> Now you can still pay for the ticket to get in and be done with it...or you can improve the experience by opening up your virtual wallet for a little (or a whole lot) over the course of your stay...
> 
> It does feel like nickel and dime-ing. It will be very frustrating for middle class families. But whether the park experience will feel like complete garbage for nonG+ visitors is still up in the air a bit.



If you look only at Genie+ you can view it that way.  But when taken with the acceleration of prices in all areas of the resort, in conjunction with reduced experiences/benefits in many areas, it is not only about tiering.  That's a part of it, but that tiering is simply a part of the overall strategy of getting more out of guests, while reducing what is being offered.  Which looks great on paper.  We'll see how it translates to reality.


----------



## EPCOT-O.G.

A lot of people have been saying, "Genie+ is basically DL's Maxpass, which I liked and is no big deal." I think that's a bit of an apples and oranges comparison. 

For one, I don't believe MaxPass had entire tiers of rides excluded. The conventional E-tickets will now be on an altogether more expensive tier.

Second, there were no functional barriers to rides. If you wanted to ride or experience an attraction like Splash or Soarin' or Radiator Springs Racers, you could stand in line for awhile or...that's it. Now, under this new scheme, at least one ride, and likely more once Tron, Remy, and Guardians open up, will have a limited lottery or a pay-to-play system.

Lastly, while the daily costs per guest are comparable b/w MaxPass and Genie+, I don't think that factors in the number of days one may spend at the respective parks. I'd venture to guess many do a 1, 2, or 3 day trip to DL on average, whereas the average stay at WDW (by some estimates) is 5-6 days in the parks. So the overall hit on the wallet is higher given the multiples of days.


----------



## Victor Noriega

It will be interesting to see what Disney values our time at.  I expect the longer the standby line, the higher the Tier 1 LL cost.  The cost per ride was probably always on their roadmap.  VIP tours are $425-$850 per hour for 10 guests, so that puts a ceiling on cost per ride around $42-$85.  I remember when Frozen opened to 6 hour lines, how many of those folks would now pay $42 per person to skip that line?  Would you pay $252 (6x $42) to skip a 6hr wait?  I don't mind that people will pay $$$ to skip the line, there are always going to be folks way more willing to part with their money than I am.

I feel the $15 LL/Genie+ was added on after the Genie app was created.  Without FP we all saw the standby lines go down, and everyone was on an even playing field.  If you have touring plans app, you could further plan your day and minimize line waits.  Disney engineers created the app that helps everyone optimize their day probably more efficiently, as they have the real time data.  Then the marketing folks stepped in and slapped a "+" to it for $15 per person.

With all this, Disney should have just used LL for pay per ride based on wait time for all rides, and not even done the Genie+.  example: 0-30min wait pay $10, 30-60 min wait pay $30, 60-90min pay $60, 90+min pay $100.  Maybe throw in 1 free LL passes for resort guests to get them hooked.


----------



## raidermatt

Jrb1979 said:


> I doubt advanced booking comes back. Especially with the price of the individual rides changing in price depending on how busy the park is.  The days of it being tied to resort stay is over.



They price the parks dynamically based on date, and park reservations are made in advance so they can do the same with attractions.  They have plenty of data to forecast demand months in advance.  If they chose to, they could still allow prices to fluctuate as the date approaches, as they do with hotel rooms, and like rental car companies, airlines, and may others do.  Or they could just lock it in 30 or 60 days ahead.  They can forecast pretty well within those timeframes.

If there is an opportunity to create a new revenue stream, or increase hotel bookings, we can be assured it will happen.


----------



## HopperFan

.


MakiraMarlena said:


> You're going to need a phone to book your Genie+ selections, unless they decide to put kiosks or CMs with ipads in the park for guests to consult. Too early to tell if they will do that. However I'm guessing you will be able to scan in for your lightning lane using your MB (too early to tell about that either)



I think the kiosks will be there along with CMs.  If they don't the lines at the GR will be miles long and it would be a mess.  Next upcharge will be renting hand held G+ devices for duration of your stay.


----------



## Jrb1979

raidermatt said:


> They price the parks dynamically based on date, and park reservations are made in advance so they can do the same with attractions.  They have plenty of data to forecast demand months in advance.  If they chose to, they could still allow prices to fluctuate as the date approaches, as they do with hotel rooms, and like rental car companies, airlines, and may others do.  Or they could just lock it in 30 or 60 days ahead.  They can forecast pretty well within those timeframes.
> 
> If there is an opportunity to create a new revenue stream, or increase hotel bookings, we can be assured it will happen.


They could but doubt they will. I don't see them going back to that. Look it sucks for those that plan but I think the best you will get is room discounts or free dining to fill rooms. 

Personally this announcement has made me interested in going back to Disney.


----------



## Chris_T

Apologies if somebody already stated this before,  I've only got to page 50 or so   Lots of people saying they will still try for the Virtual Queue at ROTR and any others flagged as Pri 1's,  my view is that will not be active once this takes off,  you will have the purchased LL from 7/park opening, there will be a standby at park opening (favouring the resort guests) which will then go to Virtual Standby once that is full,  they aren't going to restrict paying guests that much, they can make too much out of it. (there that should start some interesting conversations   )


----------



## cdurham1

mi*vida*loca said:


> https://blogmickey.com/2021/08/gues...y-genie-starting-at-midnight-on-day-of-visit/


I am a little confused by the "If guests have a date-based ticket or vacation package, they will be able to purchase Disney Genie+ as part of the package."  I thought pretty much everyone had date based tickets now.


----------



## raidermatt

Jrb1979 said:


> They could but doubt they will. I don't see them going back to that. Look it sucks for those that plan but I think the best you will get is room discounts or free dining to fill rooms.
> 
> Personally this announcement has made me interested in going back to Disney.



Has nothing to with sucking for planners.  It has to do with the fact that Disney will now be able to charge them for giving them back the ability to plan.  That is not something Disney will pass up.


----------



## MakiraMarlena

cdurham1 said:


> I thought pretty much everyone had date based tickets now.


Annual passholders don't.


----------



## cdurham1

I think they should have made Genie+ part of the ticket price for everyone.  And then just raised ticket prices by $10-$15/day or so.  We would have been a little more excited about G+.  We would have complained about ticket prices going up, but we are used to that.  This is an "add on," which feels different than just a price increase.


----------



## chalee94

cdurham1 said:


> I think they should have made Genie+ part of the ticket price for everyone.  And then just raised ticket prices by $10-$15/day or so.  We would have been a little more excited about G+.  We would have complained about ticket prices going up, but we are used to that.  This is an "add on," which feels different than just a price increase.



Yep. It's a class system.

You can be in the VIP tour class. Or the G+ class. Or the lower class with a base ticket only.


----------



## cdurham1

MakiraMarlena said:


> Annual passholders don't.


Besides annual passholders, though?

It seems annoying if you now have to get up even a little earlier so you can add G+ and be sure it is in place by the 7am window opening.


----------



## LiteBrite

honeymo78 said:


> I have no idea if those kiosks are still there, but I could see those kiosks being available for guests without a smart phone to purchase G+ and get their passes and/or buy $LL, much like how people could use the kiosks for FP+ if they didn't have a phone.


Yup, that's exactly what I was picturing.


----------



## cdurham1

chalee94 said:


> Yep. It's a class system.
> 
> You can be in the VIP tour class. Or the G+ class. Or the lower class with a base ticket only.


Don't forget about the G++/IAS class, too. In between the VIP and the G+ classes.


----------



## Cygnus 2112

We got up in April twice to secure ROTR boarding groups (and were successful both times) but I have little interest in waking up that early every day on my vacation to do this. Excuse me: to PAY to do this.


----------



## Jrb1979

raidermatt said:


> Has nothing to with sucking for planners.  It has to do with the fact that Disney will now be able to charge them for giving them back the ability to plan.  That is not something Disney will pass up.


If they wanted to do that they would have already. With the way they are rolling out the LL on a rolling basis and not being able to pick your time it wouldn't work to book in advance. I really don't see the big deal of booking day of.


----------



## ZeeWP

DLRExpert said:


> I have hard time believing that a free touring plan option, would really be for the guest experience and not a GENIE+ and Lightning Lane upsell opportunity for Disney.
> Why would Disney show or tell someone how to get on a Top Attraction with a low wait Stand By line when they are trying to sell Genie+ and LL.
> 
> They should just have stuck with Genie+ (aka new MaxPass) and skip the idea of LL. But Disney could not help their greedy selves.


This is why I am gonna stick with Touringplans subscription unless that starts giving me same recommendations as Genie.


----------



## itf

cdurham1 said:


> Besides annual passholders, though?
> 
> It seems annoying if you now have to get up even a little earlier so you can add G+ and be sure it is in place by the 7am window opening.



I'm in the UK and I've got a 2 week ticket that is just any 14 day period between x and y...


----------



## cdurham1

ZeeWP said:


> This is why I am gonna stick with Touringplans subscription unless that starts giving me same recommendations as Genie.


Yeah, plus on the video, Genie plus only tells you if its suggestion for the next attraction is "longer than usual" or "shorter than usual" for wait times.  I want an actual time estimate.  I will 100% be sticking with Touring Plans.  I think this will turn out to bring a lot of business to Touring Plans.  Plus, I can't help but to think Disney is going have it programmed to spread out the crowds more evenly, not necessarily do the best thing for you as an individual.


----------



## cdurham1

itf said:


> I'm in the UK and I've got a 2 week ticket that is just any 14 day period between x and y...


I am not familiar with the UK tickets.  How narrow is x and y?


----------



## Jennasis

I do have to wonder how things will shake out regarding the 7am cattle call...errr...PAID cattle call.

Maybe there will still be decent availability after 9am or 10am for those who prefer a later start to their day.  Time will tell.


----------



## Chris_T

14 days from the first day you use it generally


----------



## MakiraMarlena

they will have to clarify, but it appears that unless you are an annual passholder, you can add it to your account ahead of time, and you don't have to buy it for every day. APs have to add on the same day they want to use it. and you do not have to make your first attraction choice at 7. So far we don't know whether waiting until 8 or 9 or even later will result in being unable to book "anything good," at which point WDW will hear a lot about it. It'll be interesting to see what happens in practice.

however, if you want a spot in a virtual queue and the booking time is 7, you definitely have to be online at 7.


----------



## Chris_T

cdurham1 said:


> I am not familiar with the UK tickets.  How narrow is x and y?


Sorry, new to this,  14 days from the first time of use


----------



## TwoMisfits

cdurham1 said:


> I think they should have made Genie+ part of the ticket price for everyone.  And then just raised ticket prices by $10-$15/day or so.  We would have been a little more excited about G+.  We would have complained about ticket prices going up, but we are used to that.  This is an "add on," which feels different than just a price increase.



10-15 * 365 for APs would have been a helluva AP price increase...and that's where the biggest "gain" is sought - getting minimum spend by APs per day before they full reinstate the program...


----------



## EPCOT-O.G.

TwoMisfits said:


> 10-15 * 365 for APs would have been a helluva AP price increase...and that's where the biggest "gain" is sought - getting minimum spend by APs per day before they full reinstate the program...


Ah - so we think they rolled this out in advance of the AP's being able to purchase new tickets, so the new T&C were clear that add-ons like Genie+ or LL were not a breach of that agreement...Oh, that's devious.


----------



## Jonfw2

Epcot opening at 11 is our one chance to sleep in…

WAS our one chance to sleep in.


----------



## itf

cdurham1 said:


> I am not familiar with the UK tickets.  How narrow is x and y?



Not narrow - mine are 01/01/2022 to 01/14/2023, any consecutive 14 days.


----------



## MrBellatrixLestrange

mi*vida*loca said:


> Too many new acronyms !


IKWYASACA!


----------



## Turksmom

I figured out why I don't like it (besides spending money and getting up early on vacation). I don't gamble. I don't find it enjoyable. In fact, it really stresses me out. What if I pay $75 (family of 5) and the rides we want are unavailable? What if I pay it and the wait times are low? What if I think we don't need it and everyone has a miserable time because of the long waits?


----------



## bsmcneil

Based on someone's post, I had this vision:

I'm in line with two kids and decide, "OK, this is nuts - I'll go ahead and pay the 15(?) dollars to do the LL$." So, I get out of line and go to the other queue. Meanwhile, someone else sees that and thinks, "Well, if he's going in that new line, why can't we?" (but doesn't pay). All arrive at the CM and I can scan in but they can't and they become frustrated (and, what, start at the back of the line?). Or, Guest X says they bought it and show a screenshot of paying - but it doesn't show up in their MDE account (maybe the system glitched, maybe they're using a fake thing, IDK). The CMs get to deal with that, plus the other guests, etc. What if a family doesn't comprehend it and they buy G+ or LL$ for the adults but not the kids - how do the CMs help solve that problem in the moment?


----------



## Nick6300

ENJDisneyFan said:


> Apparently, you won't
> I'm really surprised they decided to go all VQ with Remy.  It doesn't seem to be a ride that would warrant it.


I think many of us are surprised that Remy is VQ, given how Runaway was launched. But maybe this is their way to manage the potential early am crowds at the entrance, and an indicator that we aren't going to see something like 9 am for EP to help spread out crowds, if it were non VQ. Not even sure that makes sense, but I guess it doesn't matter.


----------



## taterheads

I have read a lot of threads, blogs, and news about Genie+ but I have not seen the issue of how it will or can work with magic bands. The system seems heavily built on the use of your smart phone. Here is my question, what about all the magic bands they have sold and shipped for trips that will inevitibly happen after genie drops? It feels like they have sold and are selling something that will be totally obsolete, or at best redundant to the app in the few things it will still be able to do) which must be used because it does things the band can't. So are magic bands going to be trash for fodder and if they are, how do we unlink our reservations to them if they're not going to be used after all, or does it even matter becasue they'll just autmatically dump everyones existing reservations into Genie from MDE. We have a spring trip planned and I prefer not to have my phone out constantly and use a band, but it seems like using a band will just saddle you into having to use both. Also, secondary thought, what about kids that don't have smartphones, they could use a band before, I guess mom will just have to show her phone for everyone? Maybe they just intend to squash bands and start selling phone chargers as upgrades to tickets and packages because everyone is going to have their phone out all day with Genie+. I'm feeling like I was duped buying useless magic bands. What do you think? What are we supposed to do with bands now?


----------



## RoseGold

bsmcneil said:


> Based on someone's post, I had this vision:
> 
> I'm in line with two kids and decide, "OK, this is nuts - I'll go ahead and pay the 15(?) dollars to do the LL$." So, I get out of line and go to the other queue. Meanwhile, someone else sees that and thinks, "Well, if he's going in that new line, why can't we?" (but doesn't pay). All arrive at the CM and I can scan in but they can't and they become frustrated (and, what, start at the back of the line?). Or, Guest X says they bought it and show a screenshot of paying - but it doesn't show up in their MDE account (maybe the system glitched, maybe they're using a fake thing, IDK). The CMs get to deal with that, plus the other guests, etc. What if a family doesn't comprehend it and they buy G+ or LL$ for the adults but not the kids - how do the CMs help solve that problem in the moment?



Kind of sounds like this is the point.  Tired of waiting in this line?  Check your Genie and pay for the upgrade and you can use this magical Genie door instead!  Plenty of parents who would pay $20 to just get on Slinky Dog now.  Maybe.


----------



## Nick6300

ENJDisneyFan said:


> My biggest question at this point is how VQ and LL will work together on ROTR and Remy, especially if they are both (presumably) occurring at 7am.  As an offsite guest in November, I have little confidence of being able to buy the LL pass since (if I'm understanding correctly), onsite guests are able to purchase those at 7am but offsite has to wait until park opening?  I guess I will have to try for the VQ and then if unsuccessful, hope there is a LL pass still available by 10 or 11 when Epcot opens?   And to complicate matters further, will you need a park pass to get a Remy VQ like you need for ROTR?  So. many. questions.


Think the communication did state park opening for off site guests for purchasing LL. But do we think that it's literally park opening time or when the off site guest actually enters park. If it's the latter, will there be accounting for off site guests with early dining or Jedi training or whatever, or will no one be allowed in early to help reinforce the 30 min advance opening perk.

I currently don't have any EP reservations for upcoming trip with the later start. I'm assuming the 7am availability for onsite guests stipulates your 1st LL selection is tied to your 1st park reservation. So if you have AK 1st with the intention of going to EP later, you would have a very small shot at a LL for Rat., with many people going for it at 7am.


----------



## jmparry

I'm wondering what will this mean for people like my parents: Over 70, they don't use apps, won't pay additional to get on a ride sooner, value resort devotees, but they love WDW. Will they simply wait in longer standby lines? Ride fewer rides throughout the day? Will it really be miserable without taking advantage of Genie+ or Lightning Lane if they don't care about the number of rides they can check off? There has to still be some magic!


----------



## luv2cheer92

raidermatt said:


> I understand what she is saying.  But if she is okay with this, she is not really a planner.  Which is perfectly fine, many are not planners.


My spreadsheets and itinerary documents (for every vacation, not just Disney), and every single person that knows me, would strongly beg to differ. But you don't have to understand, it's ok.


----------



## MrBellatrixLestrange

jmparry said:


> I'm wondering what will this mean for people like my parents: Over 70, they don't use apps, won't pay additional to get on a ride sooner, value resort devotees, but they love WDW. Will they simply wait in longer standby lines? Ride fewer rides throughout the day? Will it really be miserable without taking advantage of Genie+ or Lightning Lane if they don't care about the number of rides they can check off? There has to still be some magic!


I have similar concerns, my parents are older and will be taking what may be their last family trip with everyone.  Do they pay the upcharge knowing they'll hardly use it but if they don't do they have to watch the rest of the family jump on one of the rides they want to ride in 10 minutes while they wait 50?


----------



## Chris_T

jmparry said:


> I'm wondering what will this mean for people like my parents: Over 70, they don't use apps, won't pay additional to get on a ride sooner, value resort devotees, but they love WDW. Will they simply wait in longer standby lines? Ride fewer rides throughout the day? Will it really be miserable without taking advantage of Genie+ or Lightning Lane if they don't care about the number of rides they can check off? There has to still be some magic!


Go at 'relatively' quieter times of the year, I'm also assuming although I could be wrong that the rides they would go on would not be the top tier ones which should make standby less of an issue (apologies if I am getting that wrong  )


----------



## jmparry

Chris_T said:


> Go at 'relatively' quieter times of the year, I'm also assuming although I could be wrong that the rides they would go on would not be the top tier ones which should make standby less of an issue (apologies if I am getting that wrong  )


Not at all! Safari they will want to ride, roller costers they won't.  They usually go at a 'relatively' quieter time. So they can still enjoy their trip without Genie+?


----------



## MissionMouse

Responding to Genie working with Magic Bands or only phones. Expect the reason the MAGIC of the free bands being remove from from resort packages may relate to this new tool that 'helps' you by monitoring you by tracking and monitoring you using your phones functions/applications. Use this data to gain insights to customer behaviors, engineer park changes to create other other "improvements" to make you pay for their imbalance between number of guest and ride capacity. The magic band won't allow them the level of data you will voluntarily give them by using your phone, allowing them to further plan out other revenue streams


----------



## elgerber

elgerber said:


> I have missed some pages, but I wonder what is considered on-site for the 7am LL purchases.  If you have a reservation for that day, but haven't yet checked in, do you think that will count?


In addition to this question that I am still wondering about, has it been discussed if you get to pick a time slot for your paid LL purchase, or if that will also be next available, take it or leave it?


----------



## MrBellatrixLestrange

jmparry said:


> Not at all! Safari they will want to ride, roller costers they won't.  They usually go at a 'relatively' quieter time. So they can still enjoy their trip without Genie+?


I've seen conflicting reports on the safari, some have speculated it will be in the top tier LL$ rides which wouldn't be Genie+ but that seems very much uncertain now as other have EE in there instead.


----------



## ToyStoryManiaMouse

I’m straight-up thrilled with these options. It was the system I was wishing for


----------



## taterheads

MissionMouse said:


> Responding to Genie working with Magic Bands or only phones. Expect the reason the MAGIC of the free bands being remove from from resort packages may relate to this new tool that 'helps' you by monitoring you by tracking and monitoring you using your phones functions/applications. Use this data to gain insights to customer behaviors, engineer park changes to create other other "improvements" to make you pay for their imbalance between number of guest and ride capacity. The magic band won't allow them the level of data you will voluntarily give them by using your phone, allowing them to further plan out other revenue streams




Well that didn't exactly answer my question but it's definitely not exactly a heart warming thought.... You are completly right though. We will give up every bit of our privacy. They will have all our personal info, cards, room numbers, demographic as well as that of our entire family. Sure hope they dont end up with a data breech, which isn't exactly reassuring since we're talking Disney IT here... hum, well thanks for the food for thought.


----------



## menotyou21

I've prob read 45 of the 65 pages...but has it been discussed how this could quickly cause a group to be running from land to land, etc. Then take into account an ADR. In the past, I'd map out our "park path" to optimize our route for the day, with flexibility. But with G+, for example: if we want to ride Thunder Mt. and it becomes avail on G+ and we are in Tomorrowland....then we have an ADR at BOG 1.5 hours from now....we'd have to trek quite a bit.  I hear all the comments regarding planning and I personally know people who have gone to WDW and be so upset because they didn't understand FP+. But WDW isn't changing ADR planning...yet.  Seems a bit counter to each other...."we are taking the planning difficulty out.....but get up at 4:45am 60 days before your trip to book your ADRs". Those same families who were upset with no FP+ on key rides; also missed out on some dining experiences....is the ADR window removal next, with Genie charging for premium ADRs at 7am? (queue sarcasm)

I don't like paying for a once free service; but really WDW is one of the only places that does not charge for a "fast lane". Six Flags over TX ( I KNOW...not comparable in any way), but their 1 day ticket is $30; their mid tier skip the lines is $80. But at least I know exactly what I'm getting. Kinda crazy to think Six Flags will be more consistent in this area. For contrast, SeaWorld San Antonio 1 day ticket $55, skip lines $20. I'd pay a premium for complete flexibility, even if it was 1 LL per ride per day, but came as an all-in package price.

Alternatively, for a group of 10, this could really make a VIP tour seem more reasonably priced.


----------



## Jonfw2

ToyStoryManiaMouse said:


> I’m straight-up thrilled with these options. It was the system I was wishing for


Well, I have to say this is nice to hear. Can you expand on why?


----------



## Nick6300

Raychell said:


> Conclusion: If we pay for Genie+ that helps us most at MK and HS. So that puts us doing HS/MK day Genie+ and AK/EP day with possible $LL FOP and Remy. It just really doesn’t seem like the $15 option would help with enough lines in AK and EP, but $LL could. UNLESS you factor in riding multiple times. But with our limited time we probably wouldn’t do that anyway - we’d take more rest breaks instead.



I think we also felt that for AK/EP the + wasn't as necessary. We're typically done with rides around lunch time at AK, and we do circle back for 2nds for select rides at EP like Soarin and LWTL, but don't know that even $15 per is needed.


----------



## Nick6300

RoseGold said:


> The more I think about it, the more I realize what an entirely different direction this is.
> 
> The dining plan.  The dining plan never made sense to me. I didn't use it.  It cost people more money overall than I thought you should even spend on food and was a bad value for most people.  But people still bought it because they liked to pre-pay it or just didn't like being nickel and dimed for every meal.  I still don't get the dining plan.  I just pay for dinner.
> 
> Genie is like the worst possible combo.  He wants to charge you $20 for Slinky Dog AND he doesn't let you preplan or prepay for everything.  You have to think about and handle every microtransaction while wrangling your kids and dropping another $20 here and there, and maybe you don't feel like going on Pirates right now.  Some of these are planned at 7AM, I guess some of these Genie is going to wing for you.  At least a prepaid pass like Universal's, even if it's expensive, you know what you are getting, like the dining plan.


It feels like the pay as you go situation is going to be more difficult to track vs. pre-paying for everything. If you pay $15/20 here and there, you're not going to feel as overwhelmed as seeing that building total, potentially spending more than intended, and playing into their hands.


----------



## aviva5675

I think this will all stink for AP like us that drive over for a day.  Can book at 7 am but we might normally go over, eat a meal, do one or two things then leave. Now no idea if will be able to choose time slot for LL or + ride, so would throw things off. Also what if some LL you really want is the same time as an ADR?


----------



## aviva5675

I cant imagine that all opportunities will be only at 7am.  They must (must?) be going to also drop a bunch at 9am so at least off site guests can get some times.  And/or release times throughout the day so you arent stuck with your second LL late in the day and cant get another till then.


----------



## Nick6300

Sargeant Tibbs said:


> I'm not so sure this time. It seems to me that a big part of the goal here is to get guests into the parks earlier and to stay longer. If we're only getting one LL pass at a time, and have to wait a period of time for the next one, the only way to get a decent amount of rides in might be to rope drop. Not to mention they already have us up at 7am, if on property. I think we might see touring styles shift dramatically because of this. We'll see what standby wait times look like when this rolls out. That is the key right there to how much this is going to have an effect on everything.


It could also make it more appealing for guests to pay large sums of money for the early/after hours parties and Deluxe stays for the late hours - once they open it up more than the 1x at EP and MK per week. They may create more paid events for non holidays, and soon, they will have night owls and early risers paying more. As an early riser, I'm not looking forward to even more daunting RD crowds.


----------



## Nick6300

Airb330 said:


> *Disney must know they’ve upset the planning population*. I almost wonder if there will be a $25 option in the future to “New Genie+ magic! Wish for and schedule Two Tier 2 rides in advance, such as favorites like Haunted Mansion or Pirates of the Caribbean. Feel relaxed knowing two of your favorite attractions are scheduled without any early wake ups or uncertainty!”
> 
> I can see the email from Disney now touting it.


I think I saw Josh D'Amoro tout the opposite, that now you don't have to spend all of that time planning and making spreadsheets. I enjoyed the planning, and while not everyone does, a lot of my friends got into the planning as well.


----------



## Nick6300

MrBellatrixLestrange said:


> I don't think there's any question they're going to tweak the system in the future and I'll lay odds that the changes won't reduce the cost.


Agree, anything with a price provides an opportunity for an increase in price later. Now they have multiple ways to increase revenues via straight up ticket increases, increases to G+ and LL, and other ways for guests to try to gain more time (Deluxe reservations, early/after hours parties).


----------



## Stefne

cdurham1 said:


> I think they should have made Genie+ part of the ticket price for everyone.  And then just raised ticket prices by $10-$15/day or so.


I honestly wondered why they didn't do that as well, but then realized that they wouldn't have been able to get that $15 upcharge from AP holders every time they visit so I kind of thought maybe that was why.


----------



## Nick6300

RoseGold said:


> If LL doesn't include the Tier 1 rides, those are going to be all standby lines.  That means you have to either pony up the $20, rope drop 7D, or ride it standby.  The question becomes what happens to the 7D with no Fast Pass and no LL tier.  I'm not sure how Rope Drop fits into this will all the classes of guests and maybe or maybe not Genie is up by then.
> 
> If you paid $15 for LL and Genie says to go skip the line at Pirates, you are going to do that, not stand in line with the cheap people at 7D.  To me, this leads to two strategies.  Either pay the $15 and stick to Tier 2, or don't pay and go standby/a la carte.  Mixing the strategies of LL and a la carte doesn't make sense to me.
> 
> If enough people are in the Tier 2 system, or if the a la carte is expensive enough, 7D might actually have a moving, pleasant standby line, like it did in Covid times.  That's not a terrible outcome to a cheap, standby person.  In a sense, that makes $30 a la carte more appealing than $5 a la carte.
> 
> I'm never getting up at 7AM on vacation.  So, I guess we will see you on the carousel.



I must be in the Cheap circle, if any of us who frequent WDW can really be considered super cheap, because right now, I'm thinking I'd pay for G+ for HS and MK days, not AK/EP, and rarely LL at all. 

I think there were articles stating that you could pay for Rise for $50 somehow? I'm sure some would, but I personally wouldn't pay that. I'd just try to leave a few opportunities at a BG and if I strike out, I've done it a bunch of times and there's always the next time. Shanghai was a new experience, very crowded, and I never bought the paid FPs at all for the likes of Tron, or 7D, Soaring. I just researched heavily to create a good touring plan and experienced everything.


----------



## MrBellatrixLestrange

Stefne said:


> I honestly wondered why they didn't do that as well, but then realized that they wouldn't have been able to get that $15 upcharge from AP holders every time they visit so I kind of thought maybe that was why.


Also any tickets they've already sold wouldn't include the increased price.  The reality I suspect is they feel that introducing the new system gives them the opportunity to sell the increase as being a trade off for the new system so they don't appear to be increasing costs with no associated benefit.


----------



## jmparry

honeymo78 said:


> I've made similar points before about waiting in line not being the end of the world.  I also don't think you need to be up and booking at 7am if you don't want a time within the first hour or 2 of park opening for most rides.  The people who book at 7am for a 9-10am slot can't book another one until they have used that one.  If you wake up at 8:30 and go to book, I'd think your times for most rides would be in the 10-noon ballpark (maybe later for more popular rides).  You only get up early if you want an early time slot or are paying to select a time slot for something like SDMT.
> 
> It seems like rational thought is out the window though and I'm supposed to act like this is the worst thing that has ever happened and I'll never go back.  I already have 3 trips planned for 2022 and none of this is making me cancel or second guess those trips.  I'll likely buy G+ for at least a portion of those trips and maybe purchase 1-2 time slots each trip as well (but maybe not since lines are not an issue for my family).  If we are rope dropping or trying for a BG, I'll be up at 7am, if not I'll be sleeping in and getting whatever G+ is available when I wake up, assuming I purchase it for that day.


Thank you!! Waiting in some lines at a theme park IS okay!


----------



## Nick6300

MrBellatrixLestrange said:


> I've seen conflicting reports on the safari, some have speculated it will be in the top tier LL$ rides which wouldn't be Genie+ but that seems very much uncertain now as other have EE in there instead.


I would guess Safari or NRJ over EE, but I'd personally like it better if Safari wasn't picked as a LL. While NRJ may command higher wait times than Safari some times, I feel like Safari is more of a landmark, can't miss, AK attraction. And it makes sense to try to have 2 LLs at AK vs. just FoP so they can make more. 

Also wonder if having SR affects the decision at all. While not that difficult to remove SR from EE, having SR while it's a LL ride may factor. Just as Smuggler's not being a rumored pick (even though SDD being picked makes sense).


----------



## MrBellatrixLestrange

Nick6300 said:


> I would guess Safari or NRJ over EE, but I'd personally like it better if Safari wasn't picked as a LL. While NRJ may command higher wait times than Safari some times, I feel like Safari is more of a landmark, can't miss, AK attraction. And it makes sense to try to have 2 LLs at AK vs. just FoP so they can make more.
> 
> Also wonder if having SR affects the decision at all. While not that difficult to remove SR from EE, having SR while it's a LL ride may factor. Just as Smuggler's not being a rumored pick (even though SDD being picked makes sense).


I'm not a fan of NRJ so it would please me tremendously if they pick that one though it might make the Genie+ worthwhile to me if they do so as having 2 of FoP/EE/KS on the plan would at least make me consider it.  If only 1 of those 3 is on the Genie+ plan I'll just utilize the standby lines instead.  Of course I'll want to read about others experiences first, if possible, to see if the new system makes the selection of those exceptionally difficult.


----------



## mom2rtk

cdurham1 said:


> I think they should have made Genie+ part of the ticket price for everyone.  And then just raised ticket prices by $10-$15/day or so.  We would have been a little more excited about G+.  We would have complained about ticket prices going up, but we are used to that.  This is an "add on," which feels different than just a price increase.


They want to be able to adjust BOTH prices up over time.


----------



## Poor Gail

We all keep talking about the headliners, but I've been pondering the other rides.  The whole reason FP, then FP+ were put in place was because of three hour lines for Peter Pan.  Dumbo won't be as bad since they've doubled the capacity, but some rides are going right back to the horrible wait times I remember from years ago.  I understand the whole planning vs. spontaneous issue, and hated knowing that there was no way I could get a pass for some rides at short notice.  My family operates on "Let's go to Epcot next Tuesday," not sixty day out planning.  But if Disney had asked me how I would solve the problem, my answer would not have been, "Make me pay through the nose for only one pass at a time.  I'm sure that will fix everything."


----------



## bashuck

aviva5675 said:


> I cant imagine that all opportunities will be only at 7am.  They must (must?) be going to also drop a bunch at 9am so at least off site guests can get some times.  And/or release times throughout the day so you arent stuck with your second LL late in the day and cant get another till then.


Before most everyone had 3 fast passes. Why would you think they would all be gone for the day at 7 am if everyone can  book only 1?  We don’t know the details but it isn’t like someone is going to happily take the BTMRR at 6pm at 7am. If that is all you could get people wouldn’t buy them more than once.


----------



## squirk

chalee94 said:


> It'll be interesting to see if all the recent "pay-to-play" changes (resort parking fees/magic bands/DME/Genie+) actually change demand for WDW or if it'll be the same ole* **GRUMBLE GRUMBLE GRUMBLE*** ok, i'll pay it...  like normal...



I think the percentage of people who will actually stop going is low.

Also, I think sometimes we forget two things: 1.) the Disney fan community is an echo chamber. We are vocal, but we are also a very small fraction of the people who attend the parks, so our outrage is not nearly as concerning to P&R as we might think; and 2.) for every person who actually does stop going, there are plenty of new families out there with little kids who are just coming of age to enjoy a Disney park. These families, on the whole, probably won't know about this week's changes, or what things were like before. Genie+ and IAS will just be "status quo" for them, so they'd have no reason to complain. Long story short, anyone who feels aggrieved is free to stay home and make room for the fresh meat.

And as much as I hate_Hate_*HATE* the concept of IAS, when it comes down to it, if I am bound for DHS with my wife and kids, and there's a 3-hour wait in standby for RotR and I don't win the Virtual Lottery? Yeah, I will probably pony up, through gritted teeth.

I hate admitting that, but it's true. And Disney knows that.


----------



## Robbie Cottam

I fully believe anything that is free has no value. 
Do you know how often people would book fast passes and then not use them, blocking others from getting them?
I for one don't think it is a huge deal. I think it will add value to the "fast pass" and people won't waste them. I may make the lighting lane work better.

I m more interested in seeing how Disney handles the extra magic hours return.


----------



## raidermatt

Jrb1979 said:


> If they wanted to do that they would have already. With the way they are rolling out the LL on a rolling basis and not being able to pick your time it wouldn't work to book in advance. I really don't see the big deal of booking day of.



Under that logic we could have said 2 years ago if they wanted to charge for FP's they would have done it already.  You see the backlash they are getting for $15/day + 2 charges for other attractions.  They know throwing more charges for more features is pressing their luck.

I get that you think they will never do this and nothing will change your mind.  I am just pointing out "they aren't doing it now so they will never do it" has failed many time and will fail many more.

And I know you don't see the big deal.  But clearly many disagree with that point of view.


----------



## HopperFan

Apologize if this has been shared … Genie+ can be purchased after midnight on day you are using. One less thing to do.



*Per Blog Mickey

If guests have a date-based ticket or vacation package, they will be able to purchase Disney Genie+ as part of the package. That said, all guests will still only be allowed to make selections on the day of their visit.*


----------



## Robbie Cottam

Does anyone remember when you went to a park and waited in line. Seemed like that was so much less stressful. 
If you want to go on the ride you waited and if you didn't you went back to the pool, and hung out. Or went to the spa and got a massage.


----------



## raidermatt

luv2cheer92 said:


> My spreadsheets and itinerary documents (for every vacation, not just Disney), and every single person that knows me, would strongly beg to differ. But you don't have to understand, it's ok.



Lol, I'm just pointing out reality.  If you are ok not planning, then by definition, not by my understanding, you are not a planner.  Especially not a "100% type A, incredibly detailed planner."  And again, nothing wrong with that.  Many, many people are not planners and your perception will fit right in with them (I'm more in the middle myself, fwiw).  Its just that for the true hardcore planners, being told they can no longer plan is not going to produce just a simple shoulder shrug.


----------



## 4Hawks

cdurham1 said:


> Besides annual passholders, though?
> 
> It seems annoying if you now have to get up even a little earlier so you can add G+ and be sure it is in place by the 7am window opening.



Flexible date tickets (that's what we have) and some FL resident tickets


----------



## jimim

I’m trying to understand this as I sit on the beach fishing which is sounding better and better by the day.

1. so I pay for my season pass. 1 grand per family member x4. I’m using round numbers here.

2. so I’m 4 grand in. Fine.

3. now I got to pay 15x4 per day. So a 7 day trip is now 420 more per trip per year. So I do 2 trips a year. Sometimes 3.

4. So now my season passes at 4800!

5. Then I got to add the popular rides for even more money.

5. How are people remotely ok with this?

6. It is completely insane. I’m sorry but it is. You are talking mega mega money at this point.

7. I love Disney. We are invested. Dvc. We collect original artwork. We have a whole room dedicated to wdcc. But it’s just getting stupid expensive.

8. am I missing something here? Or is the heat gotten to me?

9. Oh and then I pay that extra money per day and I get ride time returns for 5 pm or 6pm. We are half day park people then to relax and swim. A nice dinner then back to park for night. Fast pass made that so nice. I don’t want to be in the parks all day dieing in the heat.

10. again just my opinions but to me this sucks.


----------



## luv2cheer92

raidermatt said:


> Lol, I'm just pointing out reality.  If you are ok not planning, then by definition, not by my understanding, you are not a planner.  Especially not a "100% type A, incredibly detailed planner."  And again, nothing wrong with that.  Many, many people are not planners and your perception will fit right in with them (I'm more in the middle myself, fwiw).  Its just that for the true hardcore planners, being told they can no longer plan is not going to produce just a simple shoulder shrug.


Yea, not gonna continue to try and explain it. Not worth it apparently. Feel free to believe I'm not a planner, you'll just continue to be very, very, very wrong.

If most people saw my planning process for a one day trip to a nearby town, they would think I was certifiably insane. Every single possible situation/scenario is thought of, with corresponding solutions. My Disney plans would blow many peoples minds. Like 20 pages for a 4 day trip, and I go multiple times a year.

But again, you don't have to understand it.


----------



## jmparry

Robbie Cottam said:


> Does anyone remember when you went to a park and waited in line. Seemed like that was so much less stressful.
> If you want to go on the ride you waited and if you didn't you went back to the pool, and hung out. Or went to the spa and got a massage.


This is still an option. Just don't buy Genie+.


----------



## neverenoughtime

I remember when they had the paper tickets for the fast pass lanes at WDW and we had a blast using these.  It sounds to me like Genie+ will just be a digital version of this but not all rides are included.  For my situation which is usually 5 days at Disney with 4 people the cost would be $300.00 for all 5 days.  But, if I am reading it right ( Please correct me if I am wrong) photopass and memory maker are included. If you deduct the $170 cost for memory maker it would be a $130.00 difference for my family of 4 to have unlimited LL access on all rides except for the 2 most popular rides in the park.
Sounds pretty good to me.  I will say, I hope Genie+ does not lead to paid access to restaurants.  For instance, Genie+ always takes a certain percentage of tables at the most popular restaurants like CRT and BOG and allows you, the day of in the app, to pay per person and “magically“ unlock those tables.  Reservations are hard enough to get already.


----------



## luv2cheer92

neverenoughtime said:


> I remember when they had the paper tickets for the fast pass lanes at WDW and we had a blast using these.  It sounds to me like Genie+ will just be a digital version of this but not all rides are included.  For my situation which is usually 5 days at Disney with 4 people the cost would be $300.00 for all 5 days.  But, if I am reading it right ( Please correct me if I am wrong) photopass and memory maker are included. If you deduct the $170 cost for memory maker it would be a $130.00 difference for my family of 4 to have unlimited LL access on all rides except for the 2 most popular rides in the park.
> Sounds pretty good to me.  I will say, I hope Genie+ does not lead to paid access to restaurants.  For instance, Genie+ always takes a certain percentage of tables at the most popular restaurants like CRT and BOG and allows you, the day of in the app, to pay per person and “magically“ unlock those tables.  Reservations are hard enough to get already.


Pics are only included at DLR.


----------



## Jrb1979

neverenoughtime said:


> I remember when they had the paper tickets for the fast pass lanes at WDW and we had a blast using these.  It sounds to me like Genie+ will just be a digital version of this but not all rides are included.  For my situation which is usually 5 days at Disney with 4 people the cost would be $300.00 for all 5 days.  But, if I am reading it right ( Please correct me if I am wrong) photopass and memory maker are included. If you deduct the $170 cost for memory maker it would be a $130.00 difference for my family of 4 to have unlimited LL access on all rides except for the 2 most popular rides in the park.
> Sounds pretty good to me.  I will say, I hope Genie+ does not lead to paid access to restaurants.  For instance, Genie+ always takes a certain percentage of tables at the most popular restaurants like CRT and BOG and allows you, the day of in the app, to pay per person and “magically“ unlock those tables.  Reservations are hard enough to get already.


Memory Maker is not included at WDW. Photopass is included at DL.


----------



## neverenoughtime

luv2cheer92 said:


> Pics are only included at DLR.


So wdw does not include memory maker or photopass?


----------



## Violetspider

neverenoughtime said:


> So wdw does not include memory maker or photopass?



Nope!


----------



## ZeeWP

cdurham1 said:


> Yeah, plus on the video, Genie plus only tells you if its suggestion for the next attraction is "longer than usual" or "shorter than usual" for wait times.  I want an actual time estimate.  I will 100% be sticking with Touring Plans.  I think this will turn out to bring a lot of business to Touring Plans.  Plus, I can't help but to think Disney is going have it programmed to spread out the crowds more evenly, not necessarily do the best thing for you as an individual.


 Yeah, I can't see how it's in Disney's best interest to tell people to go to 7DMT at rope drop when they can sell it. They might--just because it's so obvious--but I think it's to Disney's detriment to give away "low busy" when they can have the same people buy it. More likely, the plan will say "Hey look, Astro Orbiter has a low line! go ride that now." rather than "Oh it's only 20 minutes at 7DMT.go ride it now."


----------



## luv2cheer92

neverenoughtime said:


> So wdw does not include memory maker or photopass?


No. BTW, photopass is free. Thats just the service of the photographers taking your pics. Memory maker is the package to buy those photos.


----------



## natieya

cdurham1 said:


> I am a little confused by the "If guests have a date-based ticket or vacation package, they will be able to purchase Disney Genie+ as part of the package."  I thought pretty much everyone had date based tickets now.



Some of the discounted armed forces tickets don't have specific dates attached initially.


----------



## Jmljasmine

neverenoughtime said:


> I remember when they had the paper tickets for the fast pass lanes at WDW and we had a blast using these.  It sounds to me like Genie+ will just be a digital version of this but not all rides are included.  For my situation which is usually 5 days at Disney with 4 people the cost would be $300.00 for all 5 days.  But, if I am reading it right ( Please correct me if I am wrong) photopass and memory maker are included. If you deduct the $170 cost for memory maker it would be a $130.00 difference for my family of 4 to have unlimited LL access on all rides except for the 2 most popular rides in the park.
> Sounds pretty good to me.  I will say, I hope Genie+ does not lead to paid access to restaurants.  For instance, Genie+ always takes a certain percentage of tables at the most popular restaurants like CRT and BOG and allows you, the day of in the app, to pay per person and “magically“ unlock those tables.  Reservations are hard enough to get already.


I thought memory maker/photo pass was only included in DL so you can't subtract that when considering WDW.


----------



## MickMick

I am going to pay for the Genie+ and probably the two LL's.

But I'm a solo traveler. I will pay for the convenience. However if I had a spouse and children, we would vacation elsewhere.


----------



## Poor Gail

neverenoughtime said:


> I remember when they had the paper tickets for the fast pass lanes at WDW and we had a blast using these.


I remember them with great loathing.  They were a lot more strict about the return times back then. You got to go all the way to the ride, trying not to get run down by speedy youngsters acting as their family runner, get the paper, then lurk in the area so that you didn't miss your time.  Unless the time was hours away, you rarely had time to go stand in another line and risk missing your pass, so you wound up haunting gift shops.  Great for Disney, I'm sure, but frustrating.


----------



## quandrea

MickMick said:


> I am going to pay for the Genie+ and probably the two LL's.
> 
> But I'm a solo traveler. I will pay for the convenience. However if I had a spouse and children, we would vacation elsewhere.


And I think you are the guest Disney is seeking these days. They don’t want middle aged people like me with a whole crew of kids. We can’t, and won’t pay for this, and we don’t do the add ons. We are AP holders, but once you scale up all these add ons by a factor of five or six, it gets crazy.


----------



## SL6827

neverenoughtime said:


> I remember when they had the paper tickets for the fast pass lanes at WDW and we had a blast using these.  It sounds to me like Genie+ will just be a digital version of this but not all rides are included.  For my situation which is usually 5 days at Disney with 4 people the cost would be $300.00 for all 5 days.  But, if I am reading it right ( Please correct me if I am wrong) photopass and memory maker are included. If you deduct the $170 cost for memory maker it would be a $130.00 difference for my family of 4 to have unlimited LL access on all rides except for the 2 most popular rides in the park.
> Sounds pretty good to me.  I will say, I hope Genie+ does not lead to paid access to restaurants.  For instance, Genie+ always takes a certain percentage of tables at the most popular restaurants like CRT and BOG and allows you, the day of in the app, to pay per person and “magically“ unlock those tables.  Reservations are hard enough to get already.


The Photopass is not included, right?


----------



## MickMick

quandrea said:


> And I think you are the guest Disney is seeking these days. They don’t want middle aged people like me with a whole crew of kids. We can’t, and won’t pay for this, and we don’t do the add ons. We are AP holders, but once you scale up all these add ons by a factor of five or six, it gets crazy.



That just sticks in my craw. I'm middle-aged childfree by choice, and I love seeing children’s reactions to the “magic of Disney.”

Disney will never be Disney without children.

I'm trying to wrap my mind around this. It feels like a money grab. I hate that I can't reserve my rides in advance.


----------



## Robbie Cottam

jmparry said:


> This is still an option. Just don't buy Genie+.


thanks for the advice!
I will most likely buy the massage …. It is more than the genie would be for my entire 9 day trip and would mean more to me….


----------



## squirk

Robbie Cottam said:


> Does anyone remember when you went to a park and waited in line. Seemed like that was so much less stressful.
> If you want to go on the ride you waited and if you didn't you went back to the pool, and hung out. Or went to the spa and got a massage.



Ah, yes.  The golden, stress-free days of standing in the August Orlando sun for 60 minutes to get on Rock ‘n Rollercoaster or Peter Pan.  Good times.


----------



## quandrea

MickMick said:


> That just sticks in my craw. I'm middle-aged childfree by choice, and I love seeing children’s reactions to the “magic of Disney.”
> 
> Disney will never be Disney without children.
> 
> I'm trying to wrap my mind around this. It feels like a money grab. I hate that I can't reserve my rides in advance.


I hope you weren’t offended by my comment since you are child free. I mean no ill will to childless people. I just think Disney identifies single and child free people as bigger spenders. And I think they are courting this demographic. I do things like pack snacks and make dinner in my villa. That kind of thing must drive them nuts.


----------



## MickMick

quandrea said:


> I hope you weren’t offended by my comment since you are child free. I mean no ill will to childless people. I just think Disney identifies single and child free people as bigger spenders. And I think they are courting this demographic. I do things like pack snacks and make dinner in my villa. That kind of thing must drive them nuts.



No offense. I agree with your statement. I think Disney is headed down the wrong path.

I rarely eat table service. I always go out for a nice dinner. There are great restaurants outside the bubble.

I wonder how this will impact park times. I'm not an all day park visitor. When I'm done, I'm done.


----------



## Robbie Cottam

squirk said:


> Ah, yes.  The golden, stress-free days of standing in the August Orlando sun for 60 minutes to get on Rock ‘n Rollercoaster or Peter Pan.  Good times.


Who goes to Disney in August?  That seems just silly…..  Disney is like oysters, Never in any month without an R …


----------



## Violetspider

MickMick said:


> I am going to pay for the Genie+ and probably the two LL's.
> 
> But I'm a solo traveler. I will pay for the convenience. However if I had a spouse and children, we would vacation elsewhere.


Solo childless traveller as well on half my visits (my nephew's DVC family invites me once a year). I too am going to try G+ for at least one day at MK and one at HS, but I don't think I will need it more than that. I may do one IAS LL for FOP to see how that works, but I won't be partaking after that. I'm 100% at VQ to date, so ROTR and Remy's should be doable at least two times each. I am concerned how the IAS for ROTR will affect that VQ, but if I don't get that one I won't feel too badly. I've been on it multiple times my last three trips.

All that said, I'm seriously considering letting my AP lapse after next year once I've experienced Tron and Guardians. I think it's time.


----------



## squirk

Robbie Cottam said:


> Who goes to Disney in August?  That seems just silly…..  Disney is like oysters, Never in any month without an R …



I agree with you - I'd never go in August.  But I'm pretty sure the numbers are there.

To your larger point, though, I think Disney has been hoisted by their own petard here.  We've been trained for 20 years that there's a better way to get on rides than standing in a long line for an hour or more.  And we've come to expect this better way to be included in the cost of our ticket.

So with people getting angry or upset, Disney really has no one to blame but themselves. They cultivated this mindset for a long time.


----------



## GoingSince1990

mi*vida*loca said:


> Too many new acronyms !


TMNA, indeed.


----------



## DebbieB

Robbie Cottam said:


> Does anyone remember when you went to a park and waited in line. Seemed like that was so much less stressful.
> If you want to go on the ride you waited and if you didn't you went back to the pool, and hung out. Or went to the spa and got a massage.



I went twice last fall.  Standing in long lines, some in the sun, was stressful.  One particular memory is Mickey’s Railway, 45 minutes in the sun.   I was good at “pounding the app”, really missed fastpass.


----------



## Gentry2004

We won’t be there until next year, by which time all of you super users will have figured out how to optimize the system. Keep us all posted!


----------



## Jimmy Mouse

I wonder how this will work for the 2 hour after hours perk for Deluxe resort guest.


----------



## FreeTime

aviva5675 said:


> I cant imagine that all opportunities will be only at 7am.  They must (must?) be going to also drop a bunch at 9am so at least off site guests can get some times.  And/or release times throughout the day so you arent stuck with your second LL late in the day and cant get another till then.


Why “must” they? If they don’t, off-site guests will then book onsite next time for the benefit.


----------



## Robo

Jimmy Mouse said:


> I wonder how this will work for the 2 hour after hours perk for Deluxe resort guest.


Unlikely they will offer this after the end of “regular hours.”
 (Shouldn’t really be necessary, anyway.)


----------



## Robbie Cottam

Jimmy Mouse said:


> I wonder how this will work for the 2 hour after hours perk for Deluxe resort guest.


My guess is it will work just like extra magic always did…. You will need your magic band or  MDE to get into the cue


----------



## VAlegacy

Yet another shameless money grab from Disney.


----------



## JakeAZ

Jimmy Mouse said:


> I wonder how this will work for the 2 hour after hours perk for Deluxe resort guest.


It wont. After hour events never used FP. The whole point of them (hopefully) is the lines will be shorter.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

RoseGold said:


> The more I think about it, the more I realize what an entirely different direction this is.
> 
> The dining plan.  The dining plan never made sense to me. I didn't use it.  It cost people more money overall than I thought you should even spend on food and was a bad value for most people.  But people still bought it because they liked to pre-pay it or just didn't like being nickel and dimed for every meal.  I still don't get the dining plan.  I just pay for dinner.
> 
> Genie is like the worst possible combo.  He wants to charge you $20 for Slinky Dog AND he doesn't let you preplan or prepay for everything.  You have to think about and handle every microtransaction while wrangling your kids and dropping another $20 here and there, and maybe you don't feel like going on Pirates right now.  Some of these are planned at 7AM, I guess some of these Genie is going to wing for you.  At least a prepaid pass like Universal's, even if it's expensive, you know what you are getting, like the dining plan.


That's too funny--I was also thinking about the analogy with the dining plan and totally agree. 

I think Disney is overlooking the perceived value part of the equation. I can tell you that If I paid $20+ per person for a specific ride like SDD, I would NOT be a happy camper 3 minutes later for my family of 4. But if I have that ride included in my overall purchase price (even if way higher) my reaction wouldn't be so harsh. Same thing for the new Mickey/Minnie ride (which I didn't enjoy much when free, LOL). I probably would have been fine with a $20 upcharge for FOP and ROTR, but I'd be judging some of the other rides pretty harshly. I suspect this could happen with Remi depending on the amount they charge. I *loved* it when we did it in France, but we had an express pass there  Not sure if I would love it as much at $20+ pp  a pop! 

We were season pass holders at both WDW and DL before the pandemic hit. We probably average 3 trips  to each park (4-5 days) per year. I've been on all the rides many times. I basically just hit my favorites now. Not surprisingly most of my favorites are the headliners. So now I"m in the position of having to pay--if I even can secure a spot--to do the rides I enjoy. I know myself, and it's not going to happen. I force myself to buy a season ski pass every year because I know I'll ski a lot more. If I look out the window on a blustery day and think about paying $125, I'll stay home. But if I have the season pass, I go for a few hours. It's not that I can't afford the uncharge per ride; it's that I'm looking at the cost/benefit analysis at one point in time rather than for a block of time.

That's why packages work, whether it's dining packages, cruises, etc. People get picky and more demanding when choosing a la carte  

But at some point, if you can't do what you want without paying extra, you'll just stop going. I suspect that's what is going to happen for us. I doubt we'll stop Disney completely. My son is special needs so I think DL will stay part of my life. But I think we'll stop all the WDW trips (and probably get rid of our BLT DVC) and just stick to the occasional trip rather than multiple trips per year. It's just become too much of a chore and the new "pay more for less" (covid excuse) is frustrating. I miss the good 'ole days : )



menotyou21 said:


> I don't like paying for a once free service; but really WDW is one of the only places that does not charge for a "fast lane". Six Flags over TX ( I KNOW...not comparable in any way), but their 1 day ticket is $30; their mid tier skip the lines is $80. But at least I know exactly what I'm getting. Kinda crazy to think Six Flags will be more consistent in this area. For contrast, SeaWorld San Antonio 1 day ticket $55, skip lines $20. I'd pay a premium for complete flexibility, even if it was 1 LL per ride per day, but came as an all-in package price.
> 
> Alternatively, for a group of 10, this could really make a VIP tour seem more reasonably priced.


Ha! I had the same though. We've done VIP tours before, and they are suddenly looking reasonable  

I suspect we will be visiting Universal more often. I prefer the universal model of one big upcharge for an "express pass" for exactly the reason you mentioned--you know what you are getting and you know what you are paying. I'm also not judging each experience based on the cost.


----------



## The Iron Giant

Will I be able to book a boarding group for a ride on a parking lot tram? I’d pay some serious money to not have to walk from Simba 125 to the TTC in the August heat.


----------



## Jrb1979

aviva5675 said:


> I cant imagine that all opportunities will be only at 7am.  They must (must?) be going to also drop a bunch at 9am so at least off site guests can get some times.  And/or release times throughout the day so you arent stuck with your second LL late in the day and cant get another till then.


Onsite guests only get early access to the paid top tier rides. Anyone with Genie+ regardless of where they are staying can start booking at 7am.


----------



## Delilah1310

luv2cheer92 said:


> Yea, not gonna continue to try and explain it. Not worth it apparently. Feel free to believe I'm not a planner, you'll just continue to be very, very, very wrong.
> 
> If most people saw my planning process for a one day trip to a nearby town, they would think I was certifiably insane. Every single possible situation/scenario is thought of, with corresponding solutions. My Disney plans would blow many peoples minds. Like 20 pages for a 4 day trip, and I go multiple times a year.
> 
> But again, you don't have to understand it.



For what it's worth, @luv2cheer92 - I totally understand where you are coming from. I am a planner, too. 
We CAN be planners and still be okay with these new features. I still will have the planning of my resort, my park reservation days, my meals, even my daily itineraries  AND HOW THE USE OF GENIE+ and LL IAS will play into that ... which attraction to go for first, which to rope drop or do standby during the early morning hours.

Being a planner is not mutually exclusive to embracing this new resource and figuring out how to maximize its effectiveness.
In fact it could be a wonderful challenge for us planner-types.


----------



## squirk

Serious thought - I wonder how much outrage there would be if Disney resort guests got one free IAS per day with their Genie+ purchase, with the stipulation that you couldn’t use an IAS to repeat a ride during your length of stay.


----------



## JakeAZ

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> I think Disney is overlooking the perceived value part of the equation. I can tell you that If I paid $20+ per person for a specific ride like SDD, I would NOT be a happy camper 3 minutes later for my family of 4. But if I have that ride included in my overall purchase price (even if way higher) my reaction wouldn't be so harsh


This is so true for me too.  Having to make multiple purchases means each time you do it, you have to decide if it was "worth it".  If it's hot, lines are long and my kids are just burned out, I might want to pull the trigger on a LL ride.  But you can be 100% sure when it's over, 5 minutes later, and my kids are still burned out...I'm going to put much more thought into doing that again.

You don't have to perform mental gymnastics to justify every ride with something like the EP at Universal.  You'll gauge whether or not it was "worth it" based on your entire day.


----------



## CampbellzSoup

squirk said:


> Serious thought - I wonder how much outrage there would be if Disney resort guests got one free IAS per day with their Genie+ purchase, with the stipulation that you couldn’t use an IAS to repeat a ride during your length of stay.



They better think of some incentive because there’s absolutely nothing to compel anyone to stay at a Disney resort.


----------



## JakeAZ

squirk said:


> Serious thought - I wonder how much outrage there would be if Disney resort guests got one free IAS per day with their Genie+ purchase, with the stipulation that you couldn’t use an IAS to repeat a ride during your length of stay.


Well yes, nobody wants to have an arbitrary limit put on them, but I'd take this scenario over what was announced.

Resort guests should get something.

Limiting it to no (length of stay) repeats doesn't really accomplish anything.  Each day is new.  Each day a new crop of people show up on their first day.

But sure, I'd still take it knowing what I know.


----------



## JakeAZ

CampbellzSoup said:


> They better think of some incentive because there’s absolutely nothing to compel anyone to stay at a Disney resort.


As long as the resorts are jam packed...nothing (of true value) will be added to on-site stays.


----------



## rpfennig

cdurham1 said:


> I think they should have made Genie+ part of the ticket price for everyone. And then just raised ticket prices by $10-$15/day or so. We would have been a little more excited about G+. We would have complained about ticket prices going up, but we are used to that. This is an "add on," which feels different than just a price increase.



I feel like there's going to be a group of visitors who buy Disney World packages thinking that they have to include Genie+ (since you can get it for all of your days when you buy the package) and then get to the parks and not use any of the Lightning Lanes because they think they are all add on costs because their travel agent didn't run through the Genie/Genie+/a la carte Lightning Lane info charts with them. 

"Yeah, so you <blows cigar smoke across the table directly into the face of the four year old sitting on his mother's lap> pay the extra $$$ now and your 'smart' phone tells you the best rides to go on and what merch to buy. It's great!" <Run that line again but with the voice of Phil from Hercules>


----------



## JakeAZ

cdurham1 said:


> I think they should have made Genie+ part of the ticket price for everyone.  And then just raised ticket prices by $10-$15/day or so.  We would have been a little more excited about G+.  We would have complained about ticket prices going up, but we are used to that.  This is an "add on," which feels different than just a price increase.


I am no fan of how this is rolling out.  BUT I do like that I can chose if I want to buy it.  Rolling it into the ticket price and giving it to everyone would take whatever value this program could end up having and completely devalue it.


----------



## JakeAZ

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> I prefer the universal model of one big upcharge for an "express pass" for exactly the reason you mentioned--you know what you are getting and you know what you are paying. I'm also not judging each experience based on the cost.


100%


----------



## ElsasFan

eleven24 said:


> The irony is, with kids aged 11 & 19 Disney is the one time they're ok not constantly being on their phones.



Seriously!  And I’m always telling them to put them away and enjoy the moment. Now I’ll be the one glued to the phone all day.  Yuk.


----------



## squirk

JakeAZ said:


> Limiting it to no (length of stay) repeats doesn't really accomplish anything.  Each day is new.  Each day a new crop of people show up on their first day.



My thought was that prohibiting repeats would prevent everyone from jamming up, for example, RotR every day of their trip.  This would make it easier for “new crop” people to get their own RotR IAS.


----------



## Ssplashhmtn

VAlegacy said:


> Yet another shameless money grab from Disney.



Yes, but even worse, it’s the loss of the magic, having to think about money everyday. Should I buy it, was it a mistake not to buy it?

Disney seems to have lost the focus on creating the feeling of being “on set” and out of the real world with these nickles and dimes— starting upon arrival with the remove of DME; now this daily purchase decision.


----------



## luv2cheer92

CampbellzSoup said:


> They better think of some incentive because there’s absolutely nothing to compel anyone to stay at a Disney resort.


Maybe for you, but I wouldn't say "anyone".


----------



## luv2cheer92

Delilah1310 said:


> For what it's worth, @luv2cheer92 - I totally understand where you are coming from. I am a planner, too.
> We CAN be planners and still be okay with these new features. I still will have the planning of my resort, my park reservation days, my meals, even my daily itineraries  AND HOW THE USE OF GENIE+ and LL IAS will play into that ... which attraction to go for first, which to rope drop or do standby during the early morning hours.
> 
> Being a planner is not mutually exclusive to embracing this new resource and figuring out how to maximize its effectiveness.
> In fact it could be a wonderful challenge for us planner-types.


Yes!! Now I have the challenge of thinking of plan A through ZZZ based on what is available, that's like a dream!


----------



## CampbellzSoup

luv2cheer92 said:


> Maybe for you, but I wouldn't say "anyone".



ok enjoy


----------



## Cynner

jimim said:


> 1. so I pay for my season pass. 1 grand per family member x4. I’m using round numbers here.
> 2. so I’m 4 grand in. Fine.
> 3. now I got to pay 15x4 per day. So a 7 day trip is now 420 more per trip per year. So I do 2 trips a year. Sometimes 3.
> 4. So now my season passes at 4800!
> 5. Then I got to add the popular rides for even more money.
> 
> 9. Oh and then I pay that extra money per day and I get ride time returns for 5 pm or 6pm. We are half day park people then to relax and swim. A nice dinner then back to park for night. Fast pass made that so nice. I don’t want to be in the parks all day dieing in the heat.


For me, as a frequent visitor and an AP owner, why would I need Genie+ or the LL+ tickets that often? I've ridden everything multiple times (I've ridden RotR 4 times even). I hate lines.  Rope drop and then evening hours will probably do it for us on most days. So you can still do your half day park plan, it will probably actually work out pretty well even without Genie+.



luv2cheer92 said:


> Yea, not gonna continue to try and explain it. Not worth it apparently. Feel free to believe I'm not a planner, you'll just continue to be very, very, very wrong.
> If most people saw my planning process for a one day trip to a nearby town, they would think I was certifiably insane. Every single possible situation/scenario is thought of, with corresponding solutions. My Disney plans would blow many peoples minds. Like 20 pages for a 4 day trip, and I go multiple times a year.
> But again, you don't have to understand it.


I'm an IT Project Manager by trade, I manage millions of dollars, over a hundred team members, and integrate with dozens of other applications, an insane amount of customers to consider and try to keep happy (We have more users than Disney) and deal with government processes and bureaucracy the whole time. If we f-up, it's front page news.
Believe me - I know  I read every blog, have tons of spreadsheets and informational and planning subscriptions. Everything I do is automatically planned for efficiency and certainty. From planning vacations, for grocery shopping, to doing laundry and chores in the house.
That's actually why this is stressing me out so much - each day of my trip will be UNCERTAIN. I will be 'hoping' we get the rides I wanted for the family. And as a PM, HOPE is a four letter word!



Delilah1310 said:


> For what it's worth, @luv2cheer92 - I totally understand where you are coming from. I am a planner, too.
> We CAN be planners and still be okay with these new features. I still will have the planning of my resort, my park reservation days, my meals, even my daily itineraries  AND HOW THE USE OF GENIE+ and LL IAS will play into that ... which attraction to go for first, which to rope drop or do standby during the early morning hours.
> 
> Being a planner is not mutually exclusive to embracing this new resource and figuring out how to maximize its effectiveness.
> In fact it could be a wonderful challenge for us planner-types.


Yes, I'm already thinking about the most efficient way to plan with the new tools - and I would do the FP+ game after we used our 3 FPs and do Tower of Terror 4 times in a row - BUT - it can be a hassle. It was 'fun', because I already got the main course of the meal, and the extra FPs at that point were just icing on the cake.
We go so often that I'm not terribly stressed for us if we get a certain ride or not in most cases (though I will be rope dropping Jungle Cruise this time!). For me, it's that I also plan trips for friends and family who go with us that it's their rare visit or trip of a lifetime. Not being able to be certain that they will get to experience the rides they really want to is going to stress me out to no end.

I really really hope, that there is enough LL+ paid availability that if you bite the bullet and want to buy one that they will still be available.



Poor Gail said:


> I remember them with great loathing.  They were a lot more strict about the return times back then. You got to go all the way to the ride, trying not to get run down by speedy youngsters acting as their family runner, get the paper, then lurk in the area so that you didn't miss your time.  Unless the time was hours away, you rarely had time to go stand in another line and risk missing your pass, so you wound up haunting gift shops.  Great for Disney, I'm sure, but frustrating.


Yep - hated running to the back of the park to get the paper passes and having to run from one side to the other all day. Great for my steps - but we get plenty of that at the park anyways!




CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> That's too funny--I was also thinking about the analogy with the dining plan and totally agree.
> 
> I think Disney is overlooking the perceived value part of the equation. I can tell you that If I paid $20+ per person for a specific ride like SDD, I would NOT be a happy camper 3 minutes later for my family of 4. But if I have that ride included in my overall purchase price (even if way higher) my reaction wouldn't be so harsh. Same thing for the new Mickey/Minnie ride (which I didn't enjoy much when free, LOL). I probably would have been fine with a $20 upcharge for FOP and ROTR, but I'd be judging some of the other rides pretty harshly. I suspect this could happen with Remi depending on the amount they charge. I *loved* it when we did it in France, but we had an express pass there  Not sure if I would love it as much at $20+ pp  a pop!
> 
> That's why packages work, whether it's dining packages, cruises, etc. People get picky and more demanding when choosing a la carte
> ....
> Ha! I had the same though. We've done VIP tours before, and they are suddenly looking reasonable
> 
> I suspect we will be visiting Universal more often. I prefer the universal model of one big upcharge for an "express pass" for exactly the reason you mentioned--you know what you are getting and you know what you are paying. I'm also not judging each experience based on the cost.


I get it - I hate the single paid pass idea, but as I've been chewing it over - I really kinda see it now. Using your Dining Plan vs a la carte comparison - I really do not want to eat as much as the DDP leads me to do on every day for every trip. They'd have to roll me out of the park. I game the DDP system so hard it is ridiculous. But I only get it like once a year to really hit all the character dining and festival carts. I do not get it every time. So though at first I was like - Yay! do it like Universal! Unless they offer the big unlimited front of the line version, I wouldn't get it either. In most parks, for me, Disney just does not have that many 'must ride rides' that need that front of the line access that it would be worth it all the time. Unlimited front of lines though - FOP here I come!

Now, if they included all ride access in the deluxe hotels - I'd be absolutely sure to stay in an deluxe everytime like I do with Universal.
I absolutely think they should be adding Genie+ to some resort stays, and maybe even offer the LL+ passes free to Deluxe resort guests. But they're not going to until they see how many people actually pay for them. If the demand ends up being low - they'll throw them into the resort 'perk' pool.



Ssplashhmtn said:


> Yes, but even worse, it’s the loss of the magic, having to think about money everyday. Should I buy it, was it a mistake not to buy it?
> Disney seems to have lost the focus on creating the feeling of being “on set” and out of the real world with these nickles and dimes— starting upon arrival with the remove of DME; now this daily purchase decision.


How do you NOT already have the 'should I buy it or was it a mistake' all day at Disney anyways?  So many souvenirs - do you really need them?  What's going to happen to them when you get home? Do you really need that appetizer? Or another glass of wine?
Unless you have an unlimited budget (or just say screw it! like I do far too often) you are thinking about what you should spend money on or not all day anyways.


----------



## mom2rtk

Cynner said:


> How do you NOT already have the 'should I buy it or was it a mistake' all day at Disney anyways?  So many souvenirs - do you really need them?  What's going to happen to them when you get home? Do you really need that appetizer? Or another glass of wine?
> Unless you have an unlimited budget (or just say screw it! like I do far too often) you are thinking about what you should spend money on or not all day anyways.


I never get this argument. "There's some of this already, so why not layer on a ton more!". I don't particularly like onion, but have enjoyed many dishes that included a little bit of it. If there's too much, I push it away and find something else to eat.

It's a matter of degrees. This is exponentially worse. People can put up with a little bit of something and not want to double down on it.

And this is about the core Disney experience, the attractions that we get to experience when we visit the parks. The very attractions we already paid to experience with the pricey tickets we already purchased before walking through the gates.


----------



## Grumpy by Birth

mi*vida*loca said:


> https://blogmickey.com/2021/08/gues...y-genie-starting-at-midnight-on-day-of-visit/


So, not only get up before 7 am to reserve your ride, but stay up until midnight so you can be first to pay for the privilege?


----------



## Haveforkwilleat

From the UK, family of 3 for 14 nights that’s an extra $630 dollars for the trip, plus no DDP. Paid parking etc.  

For us to keep coming we will have to leave the ‘Disney Bubble’ and stay off property in a hotel or villa.  So we’ll probably save money with cheaper accommodation and food off site


----------



## Sargeant Tibbs

Grumpy by Birth said:


> So, not only get up before 7 am to reserve your ride, but stay up until midnight so you can be first to pay for the privilege?



Yeah, I don't get this at all. If we have to book parks in advance, obviously we have tickets for those days. Why couldn't we just be allowed to purchase Genie+ at the time of park booking? 

Or does booking a park turn a non-date-based ticket into a date based one? 

There really are tickets that aren't date based, if anyone is wondering.


----------



## mi*vida*loca

Cynner said:


> How do you NOT already have the 'should I buy it or was it a mistake' all day at Disney anyways?  So many souvenirs - do you really need them?  What's going to happen to them when you get home? Do you really need that appetizer? Or another glass of wine?
> Unless you have an unlimited budget (or just say screw it! like I do far too often) you are thinking about what you should spend money on or not all day anyways.



at least I’m walking away with something when I buy a souvenir. I think there will be a different feel when people plop down cash for a 3 minute ride. Buyers remorse will be much higher. Good thing is if you don’t like it after doing it once you don’t have to do it the next day.


----------



## disneyworldsk

aviva5675 said:


> I cant imagine that all opportunities will be only at 7am.  They must (must?) be going to also drop a bunch at 9am so at least off site guests can get some times.  And/or release times throughout the day so you arent stuck with your second LL late in the day and cant get another till then.


so then why does it feel like a punishment for the resort guests if that's the case? if i'm a resort guest i have to do 7 a.m. (not have to, but you know what i mean), but others can saunter into the parks at 9 and casually buy it? then why wouldn't i just do that, the resort guest too? what's the catch?


----------



## mi*vida*loca

Like I said previously, why would you buy an IAS before actually seeing the wait times. IMO the only ones thst will sell out will be ROTR, remy and maybe FOP. I know I will not buy an IAS ahead of time except for maybe the 3 I mentioned. I would be highly annoyed if I bought one for SDD and I get there and it’s a manageable wait time. I don’t see these going as fast as some think they will. I could be wrong.


----------



## Gentry2004

mi*vida*loca said:


> at least I’m walking away with something when I buy a souvenir. I think there will be a different feel when people plop down cash for a 3 minute ride. Buyers remorse will be much higher. Good thing is if you don’t like it after doing it once you don’t have to do it the next day.



7DMT comes to mind when you mention buyers remorse. Can you imagine a newcomer paying for the IAS for their family to ride that ride and what they would likely feel getting off? I’m happy to ride it for free with FP+ but it’s a really short quick little ride.


----------



## disneyworldsk

will single rider lines still be options? because if i have rope drop and single rider as both free options why don't i continue to use those for those couple of main rides? test track, etc.


----------



## mom2rtk

disneyworldsk said:


> will single rider lines still be options? because if i have rope drop and single rider as both free options why don't i continue to use those for those couple of main rides? test track, etc.


Next up: single rider fees, but only HALF PRICE!


----------



## mi*vida*loca

Gentry2004 said:


> 7DMT comes to mind when you mention buyers remorse. Can you imagine a newcomer paying for the IAS for their family to ride that ride and what they would likely feel getting off? I’m happy to ride it for free with FP+ but it’s a really short quick little ride.



Yup. Exactly what I was thinking. Also, Safari is rumored to be on the list. Imagine being a first timer, buying it at 7 am and arriving to a 15 minute wait. That’s a quicker moving line But they probably wouldn’t know that. I would have serious buyers remorse.


----------



## Grumpy by Birth

disneyworldsk said:


> will single rider lines still be options? because if i have rope drop and single rider as both free options why don't i continue to use those for those couple of main rides? test track, etc.


I mentioned in the poll thread that I'm willing to take one for the team and spend $30 for my wife and I on October 1st at MK to test out G+ (if it's available by then) and report back about what we were/weren't able to ride using the LL.

I'm already formulating strategies for how we would possibly use it in the future.

MK: Use G+ for tier 2 rides, SB for SM and 7DMT or just skip them until next time.  Tron will be the game-changer when it opens.  I might pay for IAS depending on the cost (and SB wait) but, more likely, I'd just wait in SB (assuming it's not a 3 hour wait).

DHS: Try for a ROTR BG.  Maybe pay for IAS (depending on cost) if unsuccessful.  Use G+ for tier 2 rides.  Will ToT, SDD, MMRR be tier 1 or tier 2?  We love these, but wouldn't pay extra.  If not included in G+, then SB for us.  Skip RnRC if not included with G+ (unless SB is reasonable).  I've always found SR to be a losing proposition on RnRC.

AK: No G+ purchase.  Use SB for all rides.  Maybe purchase IAS for FOP depending on price and the SB wait.  SR line for EE (if available).

EP: No G+ purchase.  Use SB for all rides.  Possibly SR line for TT (if available) or skip if SB is too long.  Try for a Remy BG.  If unsuccessful, would probably skip it.  We've ridden it at DLP and it's great, but would not pay extra for IAS unless the price was very low (highly unlikely).

As I mentioned in the other thread, whether or not G+ is "worth" it for us depends on how many rides we're able to use the LL for throughout the day.  If it's only a few, we would probably not purchase it again.  If it's 5-6+ then it's more palatable.  We would only use IAS sparingly, if ever.

There are only a handful of rides that I would even consider paying ala carte for and even those would depend on the price tag.  ROTR is amazing, but I'd have a hard time convincing myself to drop $20+ pp to ride it.  Even at $10 (I doubt we would ever see such "bargain basement" prices for it), if I did pay the extra, it would be very begrudgingly.  And how does that affect your enjoyment of the experience?

ETA: It seems crazy that they would roll this out on October 1st, but I wouldn't put it past them. But if they do, and we're able to use LL for a decent number of rides on a day as insanely packed as the 50th Anniversary (we're only planning to try and ride 3-5 rides considering the likelihood of long lines for everything, but maybe G+/LL would be a game-changer) , then it just might work for us.


----------



## Disneylover99

mi*vida*loca said:


> *at least I’m walking away with something when I buy a souvenir*. I think there will be a different feel when people plop down cash for a 3 minute ride. Buyers remorse will be much higher. Good thing is if you don’t like it after doing it once you don’t have to do it the next day.


Agreed. And you can always return your souvenir days later for a full refund if you decide you don’t really want it. There’s no comparison.


----------



## Miffy

Turksmom said:


> I figured out why I don't like it (besides spending money and getting up early on vacation). I don't gamble. I don't find it enjoyable. In fact, it really stresses me out. What if I pay $75 (family of 5) and the rides we want are unavailable? What if I pay it and the wait times are low? What if I think we don't need it and everyone has a miserable time because of the long waits?


Yes, @Turksmom, this is exactly the reason I don't like it. It seems to be a gamble. What if I buy it and never use it because the rides I want are never available at the times I want? Then I'm just out $15/person? Or will they refund the price?


----------



## magickingdomprincess

taterheads said:


> I have read a lot of threads, blogs, and news about Genie+ but I have not seen the issue of how it will or can work with magic bands. The system seems heavily built on the use of your smart phone. Here is my question, what about all the magic bands they have sold and shipped for trips that will inevitibly happen after genie drops? It feels like they have sold and are selling something that will be totally obsolete, or at best redundant to the app in the few things it will still be able to do) which must be used because it does things the band can't. So are magic bands going to be trash for fodder and if they are, how do we unlink our reservations to them if they're not going to be used after all, or does it even matter becasue they'll just autmatically dump everyones existing reservations into Genie from MDE. We have a spring trip planned and I prefer not to have my phone out constantly and use a band, but it seems like using a band will just saddle you into having to use both. Also, secondary thought, what about kids that don't have smartphones, they could use a band before, I guess mom will just have to show her phone for everyone? Maybe they just intend to squash bands and start selling phone chargers as upgrades to tickets and packages because everyone is going to have their phone out all day with Genie+. I'm feeling like I was duped buying useless magic bands. What do you think? What are we supposed to do with bands now?



I would think magic bands will still be used and can be tied to your G+ and LL passes. Everything will still be tied to MDE, and magic bands would be a great, easy way to do this.  We've been 3 times since Covid and besides getting in the park there hasn't been a need for them at all like there was with FP+.  Seems like if you use the new paid offerings they would be very handy.


----------



## mouserrificmom

The more I reflect on the pricing structure, the more I realize how much better this would have been received IF the Genie+ was complimentary for resort guests. I believe I have read somewhere that only 20% or so of visitors each day are staying on property - and I suspect that number has possibly dropped and certainly will when Disney's Magical Express ends.....there would be plenty of off property guests willing to pay because the cost of their vacation was so much lower because they were staying off site, and they might encourage MORE people to stay on site with this benefit.  Some of the most recent decisions just have me scratching my head.


----------



## Grumpy by Birth

Miffy said:


> Yes, @Turksmom, this is exactly the reason I don't like it. It seems to be a gamble. What if I buy it and never use it because the rides I want are never available at the times I want? Then I'm just out $15/person? *Or will they refund the price?*


----------



## Cynner

mom2rtk said:


> I never get this argument. "There's some of this already, so why not layer on a ton more!". I don't particularly like onion, but have enjoyed many dishes that included a little bit of it. If there's too much, I push it away and find something else to eat.
> 
> It's a matter of degrees. This is exponentially worse. People can put up with a little bit of something and not want to double down on it.
> 
> And this is about the core Disney experience, the attractions that we get to experience when we visit the parks. The very attractions we already paid to experience with the pricey tickets we already purchased before walking through the gates.


But you can still ride everything except possibly the virtual queue rides, everything still has stand by.  They have also added attractions, so you are getting more for your tickets as well. Yes, they increase ticket prices every year, but certainly not enough to cover all the new things.


mi*vida*loca said:


> at least I’m walking away with something when I buy a souvenir. I think there will be a different feel when people plop down cash for a 3 minute ride. Buyers remorse will be much higher. Good thing is if you don’t like it after doing it once you don’t have to do it the next day.


I balance my perceived value per hour and what else I could do instead of stand in line for an hour or two.


Disneylover99 said:


> Agreed. And you can always return your souvenir days later for a full refund if you decide you don’t really want it. There’s no comparison.


You can’t return used stuff. You can’t return that balloon, or light up bubble wand you used one night and no one will ever use again. If experiences and memories are not worth paying for, why not just go to the Disney outlet? You go to the parks for the expieremces, not the souvenirs (unless you’re one of those resell hacks). With everything in life, you always have to balance what’s means more to you. 
I get that this feels like it sucks. We feel like we are having to pay for something we used to get free. But it was free and not an obligation on Disney’s part. It very likely could have benefits all around. We already know with fewer Fastpasses the stand by line moves much faster. Heart broken families on their once in a lifetime trip not getting on ROTR at all now can hopefully guarantee it. 
There is going to be massive growing pains, adjustment on our part, on Disney’s part and learning all around.

I will also be there the week of Oct 1 and will report back on it if it’s in place.


----------



## magickingdomprincess

I have a trip coming up in mid Oct.  I really wish they would announce the start date for this so I know what to expect.  I would think they want it in place before 10/1 for the 50th, and with some additional time to work the bugs out beforehand.  I also really would like to know the price range of IAT.  

We used Maxpass at DL a few years ago and really enjoyed it so I'm hopeful this will work similarly and be a fun way to tour.  I obviously don't like that now I will be paying more for something we got for free before, but I guess I'm kind if accepting it.  What bothers me the most though is not having all rides included and not knowing what the price of those rides will be.


----------



## hcompton

Do you have to purchase the Genie+ ($15/per person) in order to spend more $ on the LL for 2 premium rides? Or can you just do the LL without purchasing the Genie+ for the day?


----------



## magickingdomprincess

One thing that I don't really get about Disney right now is why not bring back the paid early morning events if they're looking for ways to make more money?  We did three of these before and really enjoyed them.  My DD still talks about getting to ride SDD 7 times in a row one day during that event!  It was only one area of the park open like 75 minutes before park opening, and a small breakfast offering.  Seems like a pretty minimal cost to Disney to get offer.


----------



## magickingdomprincess

hcompton said:


> Do you have to purchase the Genie+ ($15/per person) in order to spend more $ on the LL for 2 premium rides? Or can you just do the LL without purchasing the Genie+ for the day?



You can purchase the 2 LL rides without paying for Genie+.


----------



## Grumpy by Birth

I was involved in the discussions about "rumored" paid FPs long before the G+ announcement, so it wasn't really a surprise at all to me for the most part.  But, as I kind of alluded to in my previous post, the gut punch for me was the fact that the "best" rides are ala carte additional charges and not included in G+.

I would have predicted a higher price tag for G+ but with the expectation that it would be all-inclusive.  In fact, a lot of the discussion about price and whether or not it provides value, depends on how many people are using it.  Everyone wants it to be priced high enough that the "masses" won't spend the extra for it, but low enough that you are willing to (thus maximizing the value to those who do purchase it).  It will be interesting to see if the $15 pp per day price point is high enough to deter the "masses."  Based on many posts here and around other social media sites, the outrage would indicate that it will.  But how many of those outraged folks will begrudgingly fork over the $15 to avoid what they predict will be even longer SB lines because others have paid to skip them?

This is where the IAS model for those high demand rides may, in fact, balance supply/demand.  The rumored prices are making me think long and hard about whether I'm willing to pay that much for one ride (strongly leaning towards NOT).  How many people will fork over another $50 or $100 or more for their family to skip the line for ONE RIDE????  I want that number to be low, but in order to keep it low enough the price has to be high enough, meaning I may be included in the population of those not willing to pay it.

In terms of the comment above about not knowing what the price will be... we may never know that until "in the moment" because of the rumored "surge pricing" model.  If they implement that, we might eventually know at least a range of possible prices, but there wouldn't be a set price since it would fluctuate based on the SB wait/desperation level of the guests.

How would you feel if you spend $25 pp to skip the line for FOP and then later in the day, the price drops to $10 pp because SB is now shorter????

The gambling analogy is an apt one... do I spend that much to skip the line now?  Wait until later to see if the price drops or if the SB wait time gets low enough that I don't mind waiting?  What if I spend this much and then the line is short later?  UGH!


----------



## Sargeant Tibbs

Cynner said:


> You can’t return used stuff. You can’t return that balloon, or light up bubble wand you used one night and no one will ever use again.



Actually yes you can. Happens all the time. Even food.


----------



## mullysisters

Pay per ride, no benefits to staying at a very expensive on site resort?  These are bad enough, but having the parks all close at 7pm or 8pm for a hard ticket event? That's the deal breaker for us. We loved returning to parks after 7pm and staying till midnight or later. What are we going to do at 7pm besides eating and buying stuff. No thanks. Last vacation I went in February, okay, I knew the parks would close early. But quite frankly, I was bored all evening. I'm a park person not a late night diner or shopper. I bought one evening event at DAK, it was amazing but we cant afford to do that every night as well as paying for every ride. Time to explore other vacation ideas.


----------



## Disneylover99

Cynner said:


> *You can’t return used stuff*. You can’t return that balloon, or light up bubble wand you used one night and no one will ever use again.


I should have said you can return *most *souvenirs you buy. I’m talking tshirts/mugs and most of the souvenirs you buy at World of Disney. If you have regret, it’s easy to bring your receipt and item back before your trip ends.



Cynner said:


> *If experiences and memories are not worth paying for*, why not just go to the Disney outlet?


What? That’s basically what everyone is paying for every time people enter the Disney Parks.


----------



## bookgirl2632

I just want to know when it is starting.  It is beyond frustrating that they would announce this and give us this nebulous “Fall” start time.  That tells us nothing and impacts a lot of people.  My trip is mid-October and my fear is that it’s going to drop right in the middle of my trip.  I don’t want to be the guinea pig for this.


----------



## luv2cheer92

mullysisters said:


> Pay per ride, no benefits to staying at a very expensive on site resort?  These are bad enough, but having the parks all close at 7pm or 8pm for a hard ticket event? That's the deal breaker for us. We loved returning to parks after 7pm and staying till midnight or later. What are we going to do at 7pm besides eating and buying stuff. No thanks. Last vacation I went in February, okay, I knew the parks would close early. But quite frankly, I was bored all evening. I'm a park person not a late night diner or shopper. I bought one evening event at DAK, it was amazing but we cant afford to do that every night as well as paying for every ride. Time to explore other vacation ideas.


When are parks closing at 7 for a hard ticket event?


----------



## Disneylover99

Sargeant Tibbs said:


> Actually yes you can. Happens all the time. Even food.


That’s true. I’ve seen all kinds of surprising exchanges.


----------



## dominiondad

I agree that the feeling that there is a gambling aspect is off-putting.  For me, it's the unknown.  I like to plan ahead so I can turn off once I get there.  There remain so many unknows for a trip in less than a year.  If WDW is already selling tickets for June 2021 and taking park reservations, they should be able to provide very specifically exactly what the terms of attending WDW will be.


----------



## DisneyByMarriage

I bought an overpriced bubble ($25) and when I bought it, jokingly said “this will probably break before we leave”. The woman told me if it broke during the trip I could exchange or refund for free.  It didn’t break until two months later but I had to secretly throw it away, as it was always deemed “not trash”

I agree with you though, there are situations where I may feel like I’ll pay to skip a line that’s over 90 minutes.  or maybe my husband and I would pay for just us but not the kids, so we could ride the ones the kids are too scared for but are also too long of a wait to have them sit with grandparents.


----------



## mom2rtk

DisneyByMarriage said:


> I bought an overpriced bubble ($25) and when I bought it, jokingly said “this will probably break before we leave”. The woman told me if it broke during the trip I could exchange or refund for free.  It didn’t break until two months later but I had to secretly throw it away, as it was always deemed “not trash”
> 
> I agree with you though, there are situations where I may feel like I’ll pay to skip a line that’s over 90 minutes.  or maybe my husband and I would pay for just us but not the kids, so we could ride the ones the kids are too scared for but are also too long of a wait to have them sit with grandparents.


And of course more lines will be over 90 minutes when they carve out capacity made available for purchase.


----------



## JoJoGirl

Cynner said:


> I really really hope, that there is enough LL+ paid availability that if you bite the bullet and want to buy one that they will still be available.



That depends on Disney finding the right price point.  Price too low, LLs will sell out as soon as they drop.  Price too high, and they won’t sell as many they could.  Either way leaves revenue on the table. 

What will that price eventually be?  To reach equilibrium:


----------



## Duck143

Disneylover99 said:


> I agree. And I think Safari will be the least likely ride to get bought.


Haha!  Disney's new Tag Line for AK  -----    Come to Disney's Animal Kingdom, where you have to pay $$$$ extra to see the animals


----------



## WVU Disney Fan

Still have 3 questions that I’m not entirely clear on. 
1.  Can you book both of your IAS at 7:00am?
2.  Can you have your pick of times when booking IAS or do u have to take soonest available time like G+?
3.  Can you “stack” G+ rides like max pass at DLR?


----------



## Grasshopper2016

WVU Disney Fan said:


> Still have 3 questions that I’m not entirely clear on.
> 1. Can you book both of your IAS at 7:00am?
> 2. Can you have your pick of times when booking IAS or do u have to take soonest available time like G+?
> 3. Can you “stack” G+ rides like max pass at DLR?


As near as I can tell:

(1) No.  I have seen mention of booking your "first" IAS at 7:00, which seems to suggest that you can't get the second until you use your first.  That seems pretty stupid to me, though, so I'm hoping it is either wrong or it will change.

(2) Yes, you get your pick of times.  (But again, you're right that Disney isn't being crystal clear here.)

(3) No.  There is absolutely no mention of that in anything that Disney has said about Genie.   That said, maybe they plan to implement it, and decided it would be too complicated to try to explain it in the roll out.  Or maybe they will shift to this when they get too many complaints about Genie+ not delivering enough value for the money.  But for now, anyway, there is no option to stack.


----------



## P'colaBeachBum

Trying to catch up on ALL the Genie threads.....still confused.
Do you have to pay the $15 to also pay for E-ticket rides or can you just pay the upcost for those rides like FOP, etc.


----------



## itf

P'colaBeachBum said:


> Trying to catch up on ALL the Genie threads.....still confused.
> Do you have to pay the $15 to also pay for E-ticket rides or can you just pay the upcost for those rides like FOP, etc.



no you can pay the upcost without having genie plus.


----------



## mullysisters

luv2cheer92 said:


> When are parks closing at 7 for a hard ticket event?


When I was at DAK after hours event last year, regular park guest were to exit by 7pm, 730 at the latest. The event ran to 11pm. This was in February.


----------



## Grumpy by Birth

Duck143 said:


> Haha!  Disney's new Tag Line for AK  -----    Come to Disney's Animal Kingdom, where you have to pay $$$$ extra to see the animals


You may have to pay extra for the Animals, but at least the Kingdom is included in the price of admission (for now).


----------



## Disneytrippin'

Queen2PrincessG said:


> I can’t wait till there’s a hologram of Walt that pops out of your phone and tells you what to do.


He would probably just keep apologizing.


----------



## luv2cheer92

mullysisters said:


> When I was at DAK after hours event last year, regular park guest were to exit by 7pm, 730 at the latest. The event ran to 11pm. This was in February.


Oh ok, I mis-read your post like that was happening now.


----------



## mi*vida*loca

https://blogmickey.com/2021/08/offi...s-astonishing-plummet-90-disliked-on-youtube/


----------



## JakeAZ

Has there been any announcement of how much the Genie will charge to look at the 50th golden statues around the parks?


----------



## jmparry

luv2cheer92 said:


> Yes!! Now I have the challenge of thinking of plan A through ZZZ based on what is available, that's like a dream!


Let the challenge begin!


----------



## soniam

I wonder when they are going to start charging for an exceptionally clean, well-attended bathroom like they do in some European airports and train stations. Those are actually worth the money, even in Germany, where the gas station bathrooms are almost clean enough to eat off of, almostAbsolutely worth it some other countries in Europe, which I won't name Typically though, WDW bathrooms are pretty decent.



Disneylover99 said:


> That’s true. I’ve seen all kinds of surprising exchanges.


Just thinking of child swap. It wasn't as advertised. We got our same son back


----------



## Miffy

Is there a list anywhere of what the IAS attractions in each park will be? Or even how many there'll be in each park? Or is this currently unknown?


----------



## mi*vida*loca

Miffy said:


> Is there a list anywhere of what the IAS attractions in each park will be? Or even how many there'll be in each park? Or is this currently unknown?



There’s a rumored list. But no prices.

https://blogmickey.com/2021/08/rumo...aid-disney-genie-and-lightning-lane-services/


----------



## jmparry

Grumpy by Birth said:


> I mentioned in the poll thread that I'm willing to take one for the team and spend $30 for my wife and I on October 1st at MK to test out G+ (if it's available by then) and report back about what we were/weren't able to ride using the LL.
> 
> I'm already formulating strategies for how we would possibly use it in the future.
> 
> MK: Use G+ for tier 2 rides, SB for SM and 7DMT or just skip them until next time.  Tron will be the game-changer when it opens.  I might pay for IAS depending on the cost (and SB wait) but, more likely, I'd just wait in SB (assuming it's not a 3 hour wait).
> 
> DHS: Try for a ROTR BG.  Maybe pay for IAS (depending on cost) if unsuccessful.  Use G+ for tier 2 rides.  Will ToT, SDD, MMRR be tier 1 or tier 2?  We love these, but wouldn't pay extra.  If not included in G+, then SB for us.  Skip RnRC if not included with G+ (unless SB is reasonable).  I've always found SR to be a losing proposition on RnRC.
> 
> AK: No G+ purchase.  Use SB for all rides.  Maybe purchase IAS for FOP depending on price and the SB wait.  SR line for EE (if available).
> 
> EP: No G+ purchase.  Use SB for all rides.  Possibly SR line for TT (if available) or skip if SB is too long.  Try for a Remy BG.  If unsuccessful, would probably skip it.  We've ridden it at DLP and it's great, but would not pay extra for IAS unless the price was very low (highly unlikely).
> 
> As I mentioned in the other thread, whether or not G+ is "worth" it for us depends on how many rides we're able to use the LL for throughout the day.  If it's only a few, we would probably not purchase it again.  If it's 5-6+ then it's more palatable.  We would only use IAS sparingly, if ever.
> 
> There are only a handful of rides that I would even consider paying ala carte for and even those would depend on the price tag.  ROTR is amazing, but I'd have a hard time convincing myself to drop $20+ pp to ride it.  Even at $10 (I doubt we would ever see such "bargain basement" prices for it), if I did pay the extra, it would be very begrudgingly.  And how does that affect your enjoyment of the experience?
> 
> ETA: It seems crazy that they would roll this out on October 1st, but I wouldn't put it past them. But if they do, and we're able to use LL for a decent number of rides on a day as insanely packed as the 50th Anniversary (we're only planning to try and ride 3-5 rides considering the likelihood of long lines for everything, but maybe G+/LL would be a game-changer) , then it just might work for us.
> View attachment 598630


Thank you for this plan! I'm going to try it as well. I also agree with Jack Sparrow: So crazy that it just might work!


----------



## pasta

Mike Mantis said:


> +++++ To this comment about waiting in line... Just got back from 2 trips (early June and late July) and the line waiting wasn't all that bad... It was nice to play in the Peter Pan queue for a bit... Within reason of course!!!


I had a completely different experience at the end of July. The lines were horrendous, and there were numerous ride closures throughout the day.   I’m glad you had a different experience 

I think I may utilize the G+ portion at busier times with the early entry for guests, rope drop, or the end of the evening strategies.   Off times, I probably wouldn’t need it. If it existed this summer, it definitely would have benefited my long line situation.


----------



## Miffy

mi*vida*loca said:


> There’s a rumored list. But no prices.
> 
> https://blogmickey.com/2021/08/rumo...aid-disney-genie-and-lightning-lane-services/


Thanks so much for the link. So sorry to see that KS is an LL attraction, since I often go on KS multiple times in the same day, since it's different every time. I'll be in a lot of SB lines for this!

It's my understanding that one may book any IAS only once per day, with a maximum of 2 of these attractions per day across all 4 parks, correct?


----------



## squirk

mi*vida*loca said:


> https://blogmickey.com/2021/08/offi...s-astonishing-plummet-90-disliked-on-youtube/



That’s an astonishing number …. for people who watch the Disney Parks channel on YouTube.

But how representative is that of people who actually go to the parks?  We Disney nerds (who watch this channel) are just a small sliver of total park attendees each year.

If 2% of total potential park visitors hate Genie/IAS with the fire of a thousand suns, P&R can probably live with that?


----------



## Turksmom

Miffy said:


> Thanks so much for the link. So sorry to see that KS is an LL attraction, since I often go on KS multiple times in the same day, since it's different every time. I'll be in a lot of SB lines for this!
> 
> It's my understanding that one may book any IAS only once per day, with a maximum of 2 of these attractions per day across all 4 parks, correct?


You're understanding correctly (if I am). I'll be in line for safari multiple times too- really hoping that guess is wrong☹


----------



## DisLiss

***ETA: I got my answers!  thanks so much!  And for anyone wondering--the answers are right below this post.   ***

Sorry, I did not got through all 73 pages of this thread, not all of the other dozen or more threads about the new Genie+ either.  It's just so much!

So I hope if someone knows the answer to any of these questions off-hand, they will forgive me and answer despite my lack of putting in hours of reading.  

I know you CAN buy Genie+ ahead of time for every day of your trip, just like Hoppers.

BUT, can you also opt to only buy it for a few days, and if so, can it also be for just a few people in your group?  AND can you opt in to buy it the day of?  So at 6:30am we're in our Disney resort, and we want to buy Genie+ for that single day, for just 2 of our group of 4.  Would that be possible?


----------



## pants

DisLiss said:


> Sorry, I did not got through all 73 pages of this thread, not all of the other dozen or more threads about the new Genie+ either.  It's just so much!
> 
> So I hope if someone knows the answer to any of these questions off-hand, they will forgive me and answer despite my lack of putting in hours of reading.
> 
> I know you CAN buy Genie+ ahead of time for every day of your trip, just like Hoppers.
> 
> BUT, can you also opt to only buy it for a few days, and if so, can it also be for just a few people in your group?  AND can you opt in to buy it the day of?  So at 6:30am we're in our Disney resort, and we want to buy Genie+ for that single day, for just 2 of our group of 4.  Would that be possible?


Yes it seems like you can buy same day and on a per ticket basis.


----------



## Marionnette

DisLiss said:


> Sorry, I did not got through all 73 pages of this thread, not all of the other dozen or more threads about the new Genie+ either.  It's just so much!
> 
> So I hope if someone knows the answer to any of these questions off-hand, they will forgive me and answer despite my lack of putting in hours of reading.
> 
> I know you CAN buy Genie+ ahead of time for every day of your trip, just like Hoppers.
> 
> BUT, can you also opt to only buy it for a few days, and if so, can it also be for just a few people in your group?  AND can you opt in to buy it the day of?  So at 6:30am we're in our Disney resort, and we want to buy Genie+ for that single day, for just 2 of our group of 4.  Would that be possible?


If you book a package and want to include Genie+, then it would be for everyone on the package for the length of your ticket.

If you already purchased your tickets, you can add Genie+ beginning at midnight of the day you are visiting a park. You will not have to buy it for every day on your ticket or for everyone in your group.


----------



## elgerber

I still don’t think I saw this answer. Do you have to physically be on site to purchase the LL? Or could we get one at 7am on our arrival/check in day even before we leave home?


----------



## JakeAZ

Miffy said:


> Is there a list anywhere of what the IAS attractions in each park will be? Or even how many there'll be in each park? Or is this currently unknown?


No full list yet. Some like Rise, Remmy and SDMT have been confirmed. Others are just educated guesses.
It will be 2 per park.


----------



## aviva5675

Lets say you get a BG for Remy, and I pay extra for Remy LL.  Ride is going slow all day, maybe breaks down.  How do they figure to get people in-- will they turn away BG non cash people in favor of those who paid LL??


----------



## Sargeant Tibbs

aviva5675 said:


> Lets say you get a BG for Remy, and I pay extra for Remy LL.  Ride is going slow all day, maybe breaks down.  How do they figure to get people in-- will they turn away BG non cash people in favor of those who paid LL??



You know they will. What a nightmare having to refund all that money.


----------



## P'colaBeachBum

I just read the DFB explanation and they made it very clear.
DFB Genie +


----------



## tinkerhon

P'colaBeachBum said:


> I just read the DFB explanation and they made it very clear.
> DFB Genie +



Thanks for this !! The only thing (well.... not the only thing..) that I am trying to understand better is the number of days you have to purchase Genie+ for---   its seems that unless you purchase the day of, you have to pay each day for the entire length of your trip- 

So, if we are going for 11 days in December, but only going to the parks 7 days, I have to purchase G+ for all 11 days? Unless I purchase each day we are going to the parks?

An what bout PPL that have already purchased their package (or tickets) ?  I already of the deposit down for our trip (11 days with 7-day park pass) 

So, I guess once G+ goes live I MIGHT be able to purchase, but would have to be for the 11 days ?


----------



## P'colaBeachBum

tinkerhon said:


> Thanks for this !! The only thing (well.... not the only thing..) that I am trying to understand better is the number of days you have to purchase Genie+ for---   its seems that unless you purchase the day of, you have to pay each day for the entire length of your trip-
> 
> So, if we are going for 11 days in December, but only going to the parks 7 days, I have to purchase G+ for all 11 days? Unless I purchase each day we are going to the parks?
> 
> An what bout PPL that have already purchased their package (or tickets) ?  I already of the deposit down for our trip (11 days with 7-day park pass)
> 
> So, I guess once G+ goes live I MIGHT be able to purchase, but would have to be for the 11 days ?


The way I read it is if you want Genie+ in advance of your stay you have to purchase it for the length of your stay? Otherwise go to the park and purchase it for that day.

*Do I have to use Genie+ for every day of my trip?*

*Important update:* Disney has clarified that *when Genie+ is purchased with your ticket or vacation package ahead of your visit, Disney Genie+ must be purchased for the entire length of your stay (all of the days in a multi-day visit).*

If, however, *you choose to simply buy it on the day of a visit, you’ll be able to purchase it for a single day. *So, our understanding is that if you only want to use it a few days during your trip (rather than the entire length of your stay), you’ll have to buy it on the day you visit the park(s) you want to use Genie+ for (rather than getting it in advance).


----------



## tinkerhon

P'colaBeachBum said:


> The way I read it is if you want Genie+ in advance of your stay you have to purchase it for the length of your stay? Otherwise go to the park and purchase it for that day.



Yea... thanks... I read the same way---   which sounds like a little bit of a pain, but in the grand scheme of G+... not the worst thing its doing !!


----------



## DisLiss

pants said:


> Yes it seems like you can buy same day and on a per ticket basis.





Marionnette said:


> If you book a package and want to include Genie+, then it would be for everyone on the package for the length of your ticket.
> 
> If you already purchased your tickets, you can add Genie+ beginning at midnight of the day you are visiting a park. You will not have to buy it for every day on your ticket or for everyone in your group.




Thanks to both of you!   For me, the ability to buy them only on certain days and for certain guests definitely increases the chance of anyone in my group opting to purchase them.


----------



## WVU Disney Fan

Do you actually have to purchase genie+ at the park?  I thought you could do it at midnight that day and make your first selection  at 7 am from your room?


----------



## wgeo

So the LL is said to be limited availability, so for example being able to purchase the LL for 7DMT will run out at some point.

What about Genie + itself?  Are the number of those available for a given day limited?  I'm thinking what a gamble it is to know if it will be worth it.  If no one buys it and you can just roll one ride after another it would be one thing.  But what if its Christmas and everyone buys it and you do your first ride and can't get another one available until 4 hours later?  That makes the "value" of your $15 much much less.  And the problem is, you'll never know ahead of time.


----------



## sbbwdw

Not sure if it has been mentioned, but I would not be surprised to see the NO DEAL deal after the launch of Genie.  Similar to free dining, get people to try it, like it, and have to have it for their next trips.  Free with 5 day park hopper, full rack rate, deluxe non standard view?


----------



## JakeAZ

wgeo said:


> So the LL is said to be limited availability, so for example being able to purchase the LL for 7DMT will run out at some point.
> 
> What about Genie + itself?  Are the number of those available for a given day limited?  I'm thinking what a gamble it is to know if it will be worth it.  If no one buys it and you can just roll one ride after another it would be one thing.  But what if its Christmas and everyone buys it and you do your first ride and can't get another one available until 4 hours later?  That makes the "value" of your $15 much much less.  And the problem is, you'll never know ahead of time.


The more people who pay for Genie+, the less valuable it will be.  But the more people who pay for Genie+, the more $$$ Disney makes.  Expect no changes.


----------



## Jrb1979

sbbwdw said:


> Not sure if it has been mentioned, but I would not be surprised to see the NO DEAL deal after the launch of Genie.  Similar to free dining, get people to try it, like it, and have to have it for their next trips.  Free with 5 day park hopper, full rack rate, deluxe non standard view?


Not likely. They will offer other things for free before that happens.


----------



## jjb1974

Canceled a 2 day pool view at Poly and 2-day park hoppers I booked as a little fun before our family's Fantasy cruise next year. Replaced it with a one day points rental at AKL with no park tickets. The $90 that Genie would have cost isn't a huge deal on its own, but it is the straw that broke the back and saved me about $2500 on my little indulgence.


----------



## jimim

quandrea said:


> I hope you weren’t offended by my comment since you are child free. I mean no ill will to childless people. I just think Disney identifies single and child free people as bigger spenders. And I think they are courting this demographic. I do things like pack snacks and make dinner in my villa. That kind of thing must drive them nuts.


I remember our child free days. Original prints.  Signed prints. Thankfully wdcc ended right before kids. Lol but yes we deff spent waaaay more then. Now it has to be something really special or rare for us to jump on it.

Disney doesn’t want us multiple year after year trippers. We don’t buy T-shirt’s every trip. We don’t come home with bags of stuff we will never use again.  I have said that for 10 plus years now. We have zero effect on the Disney outcomes whether we go or not. If every simple multi trip family stopped going in theentire world it would have zero effect at the end of the day. Zero.  Disney needs the magic in the now not after the trip ends.


----------



## jimim

I cant wait to see all the tech issues.
1.  I paid forcthe genie pass for today and and I couldn’t book anything. Disney: here are some paper fast passes.
2.  I paid for the 2 lightening passes and I couldn’t book them. Disney:  have some stale yesterday’s popcorn.

I’m sorry I’m trying to be positive about all this but it’s really hard when you still need to book a freaking park day when capacity is pretty much back to normal. I think I’m more ticked off about that vs paying for rides now.


----------



## quandrea

jimim said:


> I remember our child free days. Original prints.  Signed prints. Thankfully wdcc ended right before kids. Lol but yes we deff spent waaaay more then. Now it has to be something really special or rare for us to jump on it.
> 
> Disney doesn’t want us multiple year after year trippers. We don’t buy T-shirt’s every trip. We don’t come home with bags of stuff we will never use again.  I have said that for 10 plus years now. We have zero effect on the Disney outcomes whether we go or not. If every simple multi trip family stopped going in theentire world it would have zero effect at the end of the day. Zero.  Disney needs the magic in the now not after the trip ends.


Makes me sad because I love it. Been going since 1981 and I’m pretty sure I’ve come to the end of the road.


----------



## jimim

Miffy said:


> Yes, @Turksmom, this is exactly the reason I don't like it. It seems to be a gamble. What if I buy it and never use it because the rides I want are never available at the times I want? Then I'm just out $15/person? Or will they refund the price?


Oh they best be. If I buy it and I can’t get anything before noon I’ll wait in line at first relations till my dinner adr for that 15 dollars. They can buy me a glass of wine at dinner!


----------



## Cj2017

I never work overtime and just went in today for 6 hours to cover the cost of the Genie plus  ($240) 

My boss said, "Are you coming in next Saturday?"  I said "Depends on how much more this trip gets" 

That being said its not great we are paying for it but I cant stress about what I cant change


----------



## buzz1fan

Have they listed anywhere what hotels are onsite.
Hilton bonnet creek was onsite for the 1/2 hour park opening, do you think it will be for the LL?

sounds like 7am for genie + will be just I’m fine there


----------



## jimim

quandrea said:


> Makes me sad because I love it. Been going since 1981 and I’m pretty sure I’ve come to the end of the road.


The past year has been hard for everyone and it has weighted heavily on me.  I have had very little want or desire to travel back. Now I have even less.  This might be my final nail.  I just don’t have the energy in me anymore for planning it and just running that gauntlet. This past week and back in June just sitting at the beach with a house on the ocean and fishing everyday has really put things into perspective.  This past year spending waaaaay more time on the water has put it even more into perspective.  

I don’t really know.


----------



## bookgirl2632

This may be a dumb question.  I am the planner for my group.  My mother doesn’t have an MDE account because I always do the planning for us.  Can I purchase the Genie+ or the individual ones for all of us?  Or does each person have to?


----------



## Twitterpaited

My concern is if  guests staying off property will have much chance of getting to ride RotR and Remy’s.  I am considering getting a 1 night throw-away campsite at Fort Wilderness just to be able to book those.  Just give Disney more money…


----------



## Jrb1979

Twitterpaited said:


> My concern is if  guests staying off property will have much chance of getting to ride RotR and Remy’s.  I am considering getting a 1 night throw-away campsite at Fort Wilderness just to be able to book those.  Just give Disney more money…


If you pay you will probably have a chance. I don't think many resort guests will buy them up.


----------



## Gordo Gato

Miffy said:


> What if I buy it and never use it because the rides I want are never available at the times I want? Then I'm just out $15/person? Or will they refund the price?


This is my assumption: there will be limited numbers of genie+ passes that can be booked. So people may very well not get a genie+ pass or just get 1. It’s like FPs -  the supply was finite.


----------



## cdurham1

mi*vida*loca said:


> Like I said previously, why would you buy an IAS before actually seeing the wait times. IMO the only ones thst will sell out will be ROTR, remy and maybe FOP. I know I will not buy an IAS ahead of time except for maybe the 3 I mentioned. I would be highly annoyed if I bought one for SDD and I get there and it’s a manageable wait time. I don’t see these going as fast as some think they will. I could be wrong.


Interesting.  I am buying the IAS as soon as I can on the app.  The only question for me is do I book the first LL first or do I book the 2 IAS first.


----------



## Jrb1979

Gordo Gato said:


> This is my assumption: there will be limited numbers of genie+ passes that can be booked. So people may very well not get a genie+ pass or just get 1. It’s like FPs -  the supply was finite.


I'm thinking that you most likely get at least 3 passes for sure.


----------



## cdurham1

If you think RotR boarding group is hard to get now, wait till IAS starts and they are holding back spots for that.  This makes me think of high frequency trading on Wall Street.  Am I going to need to pay someone to set up my computer closer to the Disney servers to get a boarding group?!


----------



## Gordo Gato

cdurham1 said:


> Interesting. I am buying the IAS as soon as I can on the app. The only question for me is do I book the first LL first or do I book the 2 IAS first.


My first thought was buy both IAS first but what if I want ROTR but not SDD?  Will I be able to pick a time for Remy after 2pm so I can hop to Epcot?  Or are the times assigned? Or are you limited to the park where you have reservations?


----------



## HopperFan

.


buzz1fan said:


> Have they listed anywhere what hotels are onsite.
> Hilton bonnet creek was onsite for the 1/2 hour park opening, do you think it will be for the LL?
> 
> sounds like 7am for genie + will be just I’m fine there



In watching the one video with VP of digital I believe he said the "Disney World Resorts" hotels can book at 7 am, not "onsite".  This might be one of those perks that they truly reserve for just Disney owned hotels since they are have fewer and fewer perks.

HBC isn't even onsite, but Disney did offer the few BC hotels some perks.  We'll just have to wait until they formally announce and honestly they might not have decided, I think they will adjust the whole plan over the next several months.


----------



## Raychell

I also wonder if they will hold spots on ROTR for Star Wars Hotel guests when it opens. And also, what happens when the free Genie tells a guest to cross the park to catch a 20 minute Splash Mtn wait and by the time they get there it is 50?


----------



## twodogs

Miffy said:


> Yes, @Turksmom, this is exactly the reason I don't like it. It seems to be a gamble. What if I buy it and never use it because the rides I want are never available at the times I want? Then I'm just out $15/person? Or will they refund the price?


Again, if you ever used Max Pass at DLR (which seems very similar though not identical in many ways to G+), you know that you could arrive mid day, and even the most top tier rides like RSR would still have some times, albeit later in the evening, available for a FP.  At some point in the day, the top tier rides would run out of FPs, but not really because you could refresh the app and they would pop up from time to time due to cancellations (or drops, though those were not confirmed to happen).  Even if the only time shown when you went to book a FP was hours later, you could refresh and almost always get a time that was within 30 minutes, even for GOTG and other very popular rides.  

None of us know what the availability of LL is going to be, but Disney will not sell many G+ at all after the first few days of the roll out if times are “never available”.  So I don’t see this happening (and MP at DLR is a great example of how it will likely work).  Also at DLR, you could see the current available FP return time for every ride BEFORE you purchased Max Pass for the day.  So you could decide, with real time information, if it was “worth it” to you, on the day, BEFORE you purchased it.


----------



## JakeAZ

Raychell said:


> I also wonder if they will hold spots on ROTR for Star Wars Hotel guests when it opens.


No doubt they will. For the price people are paying, it’s literally the least they can do.




Raychell said:


> And also, what happens when the free Genie tells a guest to cross the park to catch a 20 minute Splash Mtn wait and by the time they get there it is 50?


You don’t have to pick the ride across the park and it’s just giving you a return time for the non standby line. It’s not promising you a set wait time.


----------



## kc51570

Raychell said:


> I also wonder if they will hold spots on ROTR for Star Wars Hotel guests when it opens. And also, what happens when the free Genie tells a guest to cross the park to catch a 20 minute Splash Mtn wait and by the time they get there it is 50?


One of my thoughts as well. People were already looking at the wait times in MDE. This scenario happened to us in July. Everest was listed as 5min in MDE. By the time we crossed over from the Starbucks it was an hour.


----------



## kc51570

JakeAZ said:


> No doubt they will. For the price people are paying, it’s literally the least they can do.
> 
> 
> 
> You don’t have to pick the ride across the park and it’s just giving you a return time for the non standby line. It’s not promising you a set wait time.


One of the things they are advertising for the free version of Genie is alerting you of shorter than average wait times for rides you may be interested in.


----------



## MediumSizedMermaid

So aside from the fact that it's an upcharge I really don't like that G+ is only one ride at a time. Which is *not *how Maxpass worked. 1.5 hours after your selection you could book something else, regardless of the time window (For paper FPs it was 2 hours). 

Worst case scenario: If all the popular G+ rides are booked through to the afternoon, then you're not getting any use of it before then. Or if you book something less popular with a sooner slot the popular ones may all be gone by the time you go back. So either you're using it for the less popular rides that don't have a wait anyway or you're getting 1-2 of the better rides out of it. Either way that seriously hurts the value.

And I get that they don't want to have everything booked up right away but without any stacking or guarantee before the day of I can get at least one ride I want I'm more reluctant to purchase at all.


----------



## Raychell

JakeAZ said:


> You don’t have to pick the ride across the park and it’s just giving you a return time for the non standby line. It’s not promising you a set wait time.



Actually, the free service will do exactly that - recommend from your list of favorites when the best time to ride will be based on forecasted SB wait times. The paid service is the one that tells you when to return to the Lightning Lane. So if my Genie, not my Genie+ tells me "Hey - waits for Splash are low - go now" I'd be annoyed if that line swells - as it does - in a short period of time.


----------



## JakeAZ

Raychell said:


> Actually, the free service will do exactly that - recommend from your list of favorites when the best time to ride will be based on forecasted SB wait times. The paid service is the one that tells you when to return to the Lightning Lane. So if my Genie, not my Genie+ tells me "Hey - waits for Splash are low - go now" I'd be annoyed if that line swells - as it does - in a short period of time.


My bad...I didn't see this was about the free version.


----------



## twodogs

MediumSizedMermaid said:


> So aside from the fact that it's an upcharge I really don't like that G+ is only one ride at a time. Which is *not *how Maxpass worked. 1.5 hours after your selection you could book something else, regardless of the time window (For paper FPs it was 2 hours).
> 
> Worst case scenario: If all the popular G+ rides are booked through to the afternoon, then you're not getting any use of it before then. Or if you book something less popular with a sooner slot the popular ones may all be gone by the time you go back. So either you're using it for the less popular rides that don't have a wait anyway or you're getting 1-2 of the better rides out of it. Either way that seriously hurts the value.
> 
> And I get that they don't want to have everything booked up right away but without any stacking or guarantee before the day of I can get at least one ride I want I'm more reluctant to purchase at all.


Is it confirmed that it will be one ride at a time, as in you can’t have 2 LLs for the same ride booked at a time, or one ride at a time, as in you can’t have more than one LL booked period, until the one is used (like how FP+ was at WDW after you used the first 3 pre-booked FPs)?  I thought it was just speculation right now as to which of these booking conventions would apply to G+.  I agree with you that the difference between those two booking conventions really affects the value of the service for me (as a person who adored MP at DLR!).


----------



## Delirium

This was our FP strategy (Family of 4) over a very busy Thanksgiving Week in 2018.  Despite the crowds, we were able to do every single attraction that was open.  For the popular rides for which we did not have FP, we used late night or rope drop.  For example, we got in line for Test Track 5 minutes before close.  Middle of the days were spent at the pool or, if in the park, at shows and the usual list of walk-on attractions.

The ONLY thing we waited for more than 30 minutes the whole week was to see Mickey on Main Street. 

Yes, we wasted some FPs in Epcot, but the tiering system required it.  The first Epcot Day was arrival day.  At 7 AM, we were still on the road driving through Georgia.  

It was a great plan that worked to perfection during a busy holiday week.  Genie chews a plan like that up and spits it out.

Day 1:  Epcot (Soarin, Living W/Land, Figment).  
Day 2: MK (Big Thunder, Haunted Mansion, Space Mountain)
Day 3: HS (Toy Story Mania, Tower of Terror, Fantasmic!)
Day 4: Epcot (Spaceship Earth, Mission Space, Frozen)
Day 5: AK (Everest, Safari, Na'vi River)
Day 6: MK (Peter Pan, Jungle Cruise, Mine Train)
Day 7: AK (Everest, Rivers of Light, Flights of Passage)
Day 8: HS (Slinky, RNR, Star Tours)

It took some planning, but FP+ gave us exactly what we needed for the type of vacation we wanted.  The opportunity to experience everything we wanted by doing almost all the work 60 days in advance.  Genie would force us to keep our heads buried in our phones all day while we are there.  That is not vacation!


----------



## DL1WDW2

Is there a science to this? It seems Disney wants to train us to behave in their theme parks. And they keep spending money to devise a new system . Maybe they should have just expanded in the good old system Walt utilized. I can remeber being amazed that the attractions just seemed to flow into each other when I visited Disneyland. And the timing matched my movement to easily move around DL. 
A guest entered and had a choice to walk straight into the center or go left or turn right. But each area I entered was also an inviting flow to create a fairly consistent pattern.Almost as if we were on the Carousel of Progress with the ingenious design of entering and exiting .That theatre is a good example of crowd control and movement because we are constantly loading and unloading in the pattern that he kind of re- created in each land. 
Instead the lands have been re-designed to shove new lands into position that fails to enhance traffic flow. They have broken the wheel so to speak. 
Also would probably help if we all remembered how we drive to keep traffic flow better. We could be a little more efficient and save energy if we all stayed to the right when the parks begin to overflow. Instead we are constantly zigzagging to avoid running in to each other. Especially when people are entering the bathrooms and not remembering to enter to the right and exit on theit right.
 We seem to kinda do this automatically in a grocery store but we can’t be quite as smart in a theme park. Occasionally Disney still demonstrates they have traffic control organized when they are prepared for extreme crowds. I think Disneyland is maybe better at this in my experience With humanity whereas DisneyWorld was better at controlling the stroller parking in my observations over the years.

I think I would be happier to re-train myself in the parks for a cheaper price tag than what is currently offered for a modern solution.
I know this is obviously a bigger problem than my scenarios but maybe just maybe if we all just moved forward to create a little improvement it could result in a little better experience. We can’t keep spending money to fix this without an effort on behalf of each one of us individually and collectively.
I guess that is why I am asking if this is a science to think about beyond a Genie in a bottle?


----------



## pineapplepalms

If G+ works pretty similarly to MP in the following ways I’d be more okay with it:
Can see available time slots and select a specific one
Can stack by being able to get another one either after using one or after a set amount of time
Can add on to an AP for an annual rate 

What I really dislike about this change is the additional charge for Tier 1 LL. I don’t think I’d be willing to pay for the Tier 1 rides. We’re a family of 5 with APs and DVC and with enough days we’ll hopefully be able to ride those from time to time via standby without crazy waits, and that would be good enough for me. We would probably pay for G+ but if there isn’t an AP add on, I think we’d only add it for select days of a trip.

Coming from the west coast, I’m not into the 7am start time for everything. Especially with little ones it takes a while to adjust, and I really liked booking FP+ for later in the day so we didn’t have to get up early or rush in the mornings.


----------



## menotyou21

Raychell said:


> I also wonder if they will hold spots on ROTR for Star Wars Hotel guests when it opens. And also, what happens when the free Genie tells a guest to cross the park to catch a 20 minute Splash Mtn wait and by the time they get there it is 50?


I read one “example itinerary” and it looked like the hotel group would be riding ROTR before park opening.


----------



## mi*vida*loca

twodogs said:


> None of us know what the availability of LL is going to be, *but Disney will not sell many G+ at all after the first few days of the roll out if times are “never available”.  So I don’t see this happening (and MP at DLR is a great example of how it will likely work). * Also at DLR, you could see the current available FP return time for every ride BEFORE you purchased Max Pass for the day.  So you could decide, with real time information, if it was “worth it” to you, on the day, BEFORE you purchased it.



If they will only sell a limited amount, I understand why they will allow you to purchase at midnight. Many will buy for length of stay instead of having to fight it out to even get G+ at midnight or 7 am. Even if they only wanted it for a 2 out of 6 days.


----------



## Katie Dawn

buzz1fan said:


> Have they listed anywhere what hotels are onsite.
> Hilton bonnet creek was onsite for the 1/2 hour park opening, do you think it will be for the LL?
> 
> sounds like 7am for genie + will be just I’m fine there



Disney hasn't specified which hotels do and don't qualify for the 7am Individual Attraction Selection (the 2 paid rides). I am also booked at one of the non-Disney hotels that used to qualify for 60+ FP and will now qualify for the 30 minute Early Entry, so tried finding the answer to that question and couldn't find any specific info from Disney on which hotels. I asked on a other forum here and a well-informed Disser tried digging into it and couldn't find any specifics. The only thing they COULD find is that Disney has used the language "Disney World Resort Hotels". When the hotels you and I are staying at qualify they usually say "Disney World Resort Hotels and other select hotels". A moderator contacted a Travel Agent and was told Disney hasn't been specific with the agents either.

So we'll just have to wait and see what they say as more details are released. The Dis Food Blog info page lists the participating hotels as Disney Resort Hotels (Disney-owned) as well as Swan and Dolphin and Shades of Green, but we can't find anything from Disney that says that. Hopefully Disney releases a specific list in the near future.


----------



## MMSM

Raychell said:


> Actually, the free service will do exactly that - recommend from your list of favorites when the best time to ride will be based on forecasted SB wait times. The paid service is the one that tells you when to return to the Lightning Lane. So if my Genie, not my Genie+ tells me "Hey - waits for Splash are low - go now" I'd be annoyed if that line swells - as it does - in a short period of time.


If I purchase LL and stay on property I can choose up to two for the whole day to pay for At 7am? Can I make both selections at the same time? That is what is confusing.


----------



## Gordo Gato

twodogs said:


> it confirmed that it will be one ride at a time, as in you can’t have 2 LLs for the same ride booked at a time, or one ride at a time, as in you can’t have more than one LL booked period, until the one is used (like how FP+ was at WDW after you used the first 3 pre-booked FPs)? I thought it was just speculation right now as to which of these booking conventions would apply to G+.


I haven’t seen confirmation one way or the other in terms of being like MP (book 2nd at 90 minutes) vs only holding 1 at a time but I could have missed it.


----------



## buzz1fan

Do you pay for each or will it be one price for 2?


----------



## mousestruck

jimim said:


> I remember our child free days. Original prints.  Signed prints. Thankfully wdcc ended right before kids. Lol but yes we deff spent waaaay more then. Now it has to be something really special or rare for us to jump on it.
> 
> Disney doesn’t want us multiple year after year trippers. We don’t buy T-shirt’s every trip. We don’t come home with bags of stuff we will never use again.  I have said that for 10 plus years now. We have zero effect on the Disney outcomes whether we go or not. If every simple multi trip family stopped going in theentire world it would have zero effect at the end of the day. Zero.  Disney needs the magic in the now not after the trip ends.


I have to disagree somewhat. We go year after year. While we spend less on souvenirs, we spend a lot more on dining. No free dining for us as DVC members, and dining has become a bigger part of our experience as my kids are now grown and we are older.  We also splurge on tours and other special events to keep things fresh and new. So if Disney values us less or thinks we spend less on our trips, they are wrong.


----------



## Gordo Gato

buzz1fan said:


> Do you pay for each or will it be one price for 2?


You pay for each.

also any confirmation that you can buy both at once? Or can you only hold one at a time?


----------



## Lashed34

I can't see any reason that they'll stop you buying both LL at the same time as you get to choose what time suits you, plus, they get the money there and then. If they only allow 1 at a time they risk you not getting the 2nd one and losing the money.

And Disney want your money...


----------



## Gordo Gato

Lashed34 said:


> And Disney want your money.


Agreed.


----------



## JoJoGirl

mi*vida*loca said:


> If they will only sell a limited amount, I understand why they will allow you to purchase at midnight. Many will buy for length of stay instead of having to fight it out to even get G+ at midnight or 7 am. Even if they only wanted it for a 2 out of 6 days.



My belief is that Disney will sell an unlimited amount of Genie+, so no one will have to worry about being closed out of purchasing it. The midnight purchase time is to help relieve pressure on the system during the 7:00 am drop, and to keep the pre-purchasers from having the slight advantage of being able to nab their first G+ while the day-of purchasers are still buying access.  

The return times, however, are what will be finite in number and distributed on a first-come-first-served basis. No one will be promised G+ access to any particular ride when they want it, or ever.  Rather, they are promised access to what G+ has available at the time.  Disney will happily sell that to as many people as will pay for it, even if the only options available in the next hour are Philharmagic and Journey of the Little Mermaid.  That said, I truly believe access will be much better than that except on the busiest of days.


----------



## Turksmom

I'll preface this by saying that I do overthink things. I like to have a plan, a back up plan, and a stuff has hit the fan- new plan! for everything.
So in overthinking, I realized how many arguments and irritations this is going to cause when families don't agree on how to book attractions or can't get similar times for different attractions.

For example,  3 want to ride ST- available in 30 minutes. 2 want RNRC -available in an hour and 15 minutes. No RNRC available for that time by the time the ST people are done, so now they have to wait for the RNRC people to finish, if they want to book the next ride together. Or they book something else and the cycle continues until the whole group can finally sync times again.

And DD21 and I usually share planning- how many minor skirmishes will there be when one of us wants to take the later spot for a wanted ride and the other says just grab next available for whatever?

I have to say, for the first time since 1982, I am not looking forward to this trip ☹


----------



## WishICouldSpeakWhale

I'm so disappointed. I liked the planning. It meant we could sleep in on vacation and still ride the headliners. I split up the FPs for our family of 4 - my son doesn't ride roller coasters. So DH & DS rode Peter pan while DD and I rode thunder mountain. I'm not convinced scheduling those two different things at the same time will be so easy now. I also go on vacation in order to NOT have to wake up at 7 every day.

And the pay for tier 1 rides thing? Yuck. I feel like I'm hitting up a scalper outside a playoff game. "Psst - lady - you want to go on the ride? For $100, I'll get you and your family on the ride fast." I can even picture the Genie in a trench coat showing me his pockets full of tickets.


----------



## Boardwalk III

Turksmom said:


> I'll preface this by saying that I do overthink things. I like to have a plan, a back up plan, and a stuff has hit the fan- new plan! for everything.
> So in overthinking, I realized how many arguments and irritations this is going to cause when families don't agree on how to book attractions or can't get similar times for different attractions.
> 
> For example,  3 want to ride ST- available in 30 minutes. 2 want RNRC -available in an hour and 15 minutes. No RNRC available for that time by the time the ST people are done, so now they have to wait for the RNRC people to finish, if they want to book the next ride together. Or they book something else and the cycle continues until the whole group can finally sync times again.
> 
> And DD21 and I usually share planning- how many minor skirmishes will there be when one of us wants to take the later spot for a wanted ride and the other says just grab next available for whatever?
> 
> I have to say, for the first time since 1982, I am not looking forward to this trip ☹



Agreed. I’ve always been the planner for our group of family, extended family and friends. Have loved doing it. We have a large  trip scheduled for November (DVC @ BWV). I literally have older friends in our party who don’t go onto MDE at all, as I do everything for them on my app. Our grown sons and other millennials in our group obviously can do their own thing. Given all that it looks unlikely that we’ll be doing many (if any) attractions together as a group. It just becomes too complicated in trying to coordinate everyone with Genie+.

In addition to that, how is the $15 paid for? If I were to go into MDE at midnight and purchase everyone’s Genie+ for the next day, am I paying all of those $15 charges, or are they somehow charged to folks  individually? It seems like a nightmare to manage.

For this reason  I plan to make use of resort early entry and late night hours at MK and Epcot and will probably skip Genie+ altogether. Heck, maybe we’ll even splurge for a once in a lifetime VIP tour to avoid all of these roll-out headaches


----------



## Violetspider

twodogs said:


> *Is it confirmed that it will be one ride at a time*, as in you can’t have 2 LLs for the same ride booked at a time, or one ride at a time, as in you can’t have more than one LL booked period, until the one is used (like how FP+ was at WDW after you used the first 3 pre-booked FPs)?  I thought it was just speculation right now as to which of these booking conventions would apply to G+.  I agree with you that the difference between those two booking conventions really affects the value of the service for me (as a person who adored MP at DLR!).


This is quoted from Disney's announcement:
"You can make* one selection at a time*, throughout the day – from classics like Haunted Mansion to thrill rides like Big Thunder Mountain Railroad and newer favorites like Millennium Falcon: Smugglers Run (attractions subject to limited availability). This convenient option is the *next evolution of the fan-favorite Disney MaxPass *service from Disneyland Resort."

Beyond them stating "one selection at a time" they say this is the "next evolution" to MaxPass, meaning something will be different. It sure seems like the difference will be no stacking which would likely really lessen the value of the G+ on busier days.


----------



## jjb1974

Violetspider said:


> they say this is the "next *evolution*" to MaxPass, meaning something will be different.



While I hope this is more of a mutation that nature snuffs out as it is horrible for the species, like making a nocturnal predator glow in the dark.

Sorry Genie, you rub me the wrong way.


----------



## MMSM

Violetspider said:


> This is quoted from Disney's announcement:
> "You can make* one selection at a time*, throughout the day – from classics like Haunted Mansion to thrill rides like Big Thunder Mountain Railroad and newer favorites like Millennium Falcon: Smugglers Run (attractions subject to limited availability). This convenient option is the *next evolution of the fan-favorite Disney MaxPass *service from Disneyland Resort."
> 
> Beyond them stating "one selection at a time" they say this is the "next evolution" to MaxPass, meaning something will be different. It sure seems like the difference will be no stacking which would likely really lessen the value of the G+ on busier days.


I read the genie plus would be one ride at me.  But what about LL?


----------



## Violetspider

MMSM said:


> I read the genie plus would be one ride at me.  But what about LL?


The only thing Disney has about this is, "Individual attraction selections (available for purchase): Schedule a time to arrive at up to two highly demanded attractions each day using the Lightning Lane entrance – like Seven Dwarfs Mine Train at Magic Kingdom Park and Radiator Springs Racers at Disney California Adventure park (subject to limited availability; attractions not included with Disney Genie+)."

So it's unclear whether you can book both at the same time. I would assume you can or many wouldn't pay for and book the second one as the ride they most wanted might no longer be available by the time they could book it. Disney wants that money after all.


----------



## Orsino

I agree that there are a lot of potential downsides to genie and fastpass replacement. But I also think there is potential for upsides. A lot of what I read in this thread is worst case thinking that I don’t think will happen.

one potential upside I see is breaking the cycle of “must have” fastpasses. I always book SDMT even though I don’t really really love it. It is a cute ride and I have fun on it, but if I’m being honest with myself, I book the FP+ for it becauseit is hard to get and I had to make that decision 60 days before even being at Disneyworld. With the new set up, I would totally skip SDMT. It would not be a terrible burden to me to skip it, and in skipping it that opens availability to people who do want to ride it. I guess what I’m saying is that a lot of the popularity of some rides is the fact that they are popular and hard to get. For me, the same is true for flight of passage. I enjoy it, but not nearly as much as others do.
FP+ encouraged people like me to ride the hard to get rides and made it easy to do so in a way that was not in line with level of desire. If forced to wait standby, I won’t do it, which will make waits shorter for those who do really like these rides.


----------



## g-dad66

Orsino said:


> I agree that there are a lot of potential downsides to genie and fastpass replacement. But I also think there is potential for upsides. A lot of what I read in this thread is worst case thinking that I don’t think will happen.
> 
> one potential upside I see is breaking the cycle of “must have” fastpasses. I always book SDMT even though I don’t really really love it. It is a cute ride and I have fun on it, but if I’m being honest with myself, I book the FP+ for it becauseit is hard to get and I had to make that decision 60 days before even being at Disneyworld. With the new set up, I would totally skip SDMT. It would not be a terrible burden to me to skip it, and in skipping it that opens availability to people who do want to ride it. I guess what I’m saying is that a lot of the popularity of some rides is the fact that they are popular and hard to get. For me, the same is true for flight of passage. I enjoy it, but not nearly as much as others do.
> FP+ encouraged people like me to ride the hard to get rides and made it easy to do so in a way that was not in line with level of desire. If forced to wait standby, I won’t do it, which will make waits shorter for those who do really like these rides.



Same for us regarding SDMT.  We always got a FP, because it was the only way to avoid long wait or rope drop crush.  If the only way to avoid wait/rope drop is to pay extra for it, we will skip it.  

Flight of Passage is in a different category for us. We are not likely to skip it, and it may be the 1 ride we are willing to pay extra in order to avoid an hour's wait. (Hoping we can get free Boarding Passes for Rise and Rat.)

I suspect our behavior is what WDW is banking on for a lot of repeat visitors.


----------



## GoingSince1990

.


WishICouldSpeakWhale said:


> I'm so disappointed. I liked the planning. It meant we could sleep in on vacation and still ride the headliners. I split up the FPs for our family of 4 - my son doesn't ride roller coasters. So DH & DS rode Peter pan while DD and I rode thunder mountain. I'm not convinced scheduling those two different things at the same time will be so easy now. I also go on vacation in order to NOT have to wake up at 7 every day.
> 
> And the pay for tier 1 rides thing? Yuck. I feel like I'm hitting up a scalper outside a playoff game. "Psst - lady - you want to go on the ride? For $100, I'll get you and your family on the ride fast." I can even picture the Genie in a trench coat showing me his pockets full of tickets.


As a non-morning person I didn’t enjoy getting up early to book our FPs 60 days prior. But having done so, it was so nice to be able to sleep late on the vacation and arrive at the park late in the day ready to enjoy our prebooked selections.


----------



## JakeAZ

So, in addition to my posts here, I also emailed Disney when this came out in regards to no (true) on-site benefit.  That's my biggest complaint about this whole rollout.  While it's nice to be able to vent on these boards, we should also go straight to the source sometimes too.  

*Here is my email:*

While paid FP (or Genie) was inevitable, making it the same price and have the same features (aside from being able to purchase a ride 2 hours earlier for on-site) is a total slap in the face to those of us staying on-site. 

I have no problems with paying for convenience. It's one of the reasons we are staying fewer days at WDW this trip and more at Universal. 

While we will still do this shorter upcoming trip, I don't see us overly excited to get back to WDW. At least not on-site. You can sell your $1000 per night - 300sq foot room to some other suckers.

The on-site "benefits" are a total joke. The Deluxe extra hours leave out to the two parks with most desirable rides. I thought for sure something with Genie would steer towards on-site, but nope. 

I know, I know, people usually just accept whatever "enhancements" you guys put out there, but I think this might be it for a lot of people.

I'm sure you've weighed the short term profits vs the long term effects, but why would anyone stay on-site anymore? The remainder of 2021 should be fantastic from an occupancy stand point, but you can only push your guests so far.

No need to reply. Whoever reads this, I'm sorry, I know you didn't put out the policy.


*Here is their response:*

Thank you for contacting the Walt Disney World® Resort! 

We appreciate you taking the time to share your feedback with us and are sorry for the disappointments you mentioned in your e-mail regarding Disney Genie+ and Disney Genie+ Lightning Lanes as well as the benefits to our Guests staying on property.

It is our goal to create magical memories and exceed the expectations of our Guests during each and every interaction that you have with us. Please be assured that we have shared your comments with our leadership team, along with the appropriate management, as feedback such as yours is taken very seriously.


----------



## quandrea

Boardwalk III said:


> Agreed. I’ve always been the planner for our group of family, extended family and friends. Have loved doing it. We have a large  trip scheduled for November (DVC @ BWV). I literally have older friends in our party who don’t go onto MDE at all, as I do everything for them on my app. Our grown sons and other millennials in our group obviously can do their own thing. Given all that it looks unlikely that we’ll be doing many (if any) attractions together as a group. It just becomes too complicated in trying to coordinate everyone with Genie+.
> 
> In addition to that, how is the $15 paid for? If I were to go into MDE at midnight and purchase everyone’s Genie+ for the next day, am I paying all of those $15 charges, or are they somehow charged to folks  individually? It seems like a nightmare to manage.
> 
> For this reason  I plan to make use of resort early entry and late night hours at MK and Epcot and will probably skip Genie+ altogether. Heck, maybe we’ll even splurge for a once in a lifetime VIP tour to avoid all of these roll-out headaches


I had the vip tour thought. Every few years, buy a one day ticket and do all we want to do with a guide. Cheaper over time, no headaches, better experience.


----------



## quandrea

JakeAZ said:


> So, in addition to my posts here, I also emailed Disney when this came out in regards to no (true) on-site benefit.  That's my biggest complaint about this whole rollout.  While it's nice to be able to vent on these boards, we should also go straight to the source sometimes too.
> 
> *Here is my email:*
> 
> While paid FP (or Genie) was inevitable, making it the same price and have the same features (aside from being able to purchase a ride 2 hours earlier for on-site) is a total slap in the face to those of us staying on-site.
> 
> I have no problems with paying for convenience. It's one of the reasons we are staying fewer days at WDW this trip and more at Universal.
> 
> While we will still do this shorter upcoming trip, I don't see us overly excited to get back to WDW. At least not on-site. You can sell your $1000 per night - 300sq foot room to some other suckers.
> 
> The on-site "benefits" are a total joke. The Deluxe extra hours leave out to the two parks with most desirable rides. I thought for sure something with Genie would steer towards on-site, but nope.
> 
> I know, I know, people usually just accept whatever "enhancements" you guys put out there, but I think this might be it for a lot of people.
> 
> I'm sure you've weighed the short term profits vs the long term effects, but why would anyone stay on-site anymore? The remainder of 2021 should be fantastic from an occupancy stand point, but you can only push your guests so far.
> 
> No need to reply. Whoever reads this, I'm sorry, I know you didn't put out the policy.
> 
> 
> *Here is their response:*
> 
> Thank you for contacting the Walt Disney World® Resort!
> 
> We appreciate you taking the time to share your feedback with us and are sorry for the disappointments you mentioned in your e-mail regarding Disney Genie+ and Disney Genie+ Lightning Lanes as well as the benefits to our Guests staying on property.
> 
> It is our goal to create magical memories and exceed the expectations of our Guests during each and every interaction that you have with us. Please be assured that we have shared your comments with our leadership team, along with the appropriate management, as feedback such as yours is taken very seriously.


So basically, no meaningful feedback whatsoever.


----------



## Boardwalk III

quandrea said:


> I had the vip tour thought. Every few years, but a one day ticket and do all we want to do with a guide. Cheaper over time, no headaches, better experience.



Not to mention avoiding crowded lines with the continued annoyance of Covid


----------



## _19disnA

I'm sure the Disney 'complaint' department has a number of standard replies they provide whenever someone writes in with an issue.  If they do anything, my guess would be they probably run a total of how many good/bad complaints they get on any newly revised item.

Curious to see how well it works the first day it is offered at 7am and the site crashes due to the overload from people trying to access it.  Then they will act 'surprised' there was an issue.


----------



## Absolute Coaster

I’ll be happy to try this service while visiting the park. I really liked Disneyland’s Max Pass when I used it twice in 2018 and 2019.

But sounds like it will be slightly different now, you can’t get passes to the most popular attractions without paying for them al a carte. We will have to wait and see what those are.

I’m surprised to see a ride like Big Thunder on the Genie+ list. Which makes me believe there will only be a few of the major E-Tickets on the upcharge.

After doing Disney for a while, I always rope drop. The majority of the people going to WDW don’t show up until after the park opens. Then I leave for the busiest/hottest part of the day and come back for the evening when less people are there again. 

Riding rides during the fireworks and parades helps to avoid lots of the lines. Once, I went on the Astro Orbiters during the fireworks and it was very magical. More magical than being in a sea of people on Main Street.

There’s so many factors and Genie+ will be another one. A certain percentage of people will not use Genie+ because they don’t know about it, another percentage will not use it because it’s confusing, another percentage will not use it because it costs money.

I never ran into queue issues, while using the Max Pass at Disneyland. While there’s always a few exceptions, I think Disney has enough data and experience to limit the amount of fast passes given and create a positive experience for their guests.


----------



## jknc

Sadly it’s been 5 days and I haven’t heard back from Disney.

We can’t get a refund on our Poly DVC rental so we have it posted in a couple places to hopefully transfer to someone else.


----------



## MMSM

Violetspider said:


> The only thing Disney has about this is, "Individual attraction selections (available for purchase): Schedule a time to arrive at up to two highly demanded attractions each day using the Lightning Lane entrance – like Seven Dwarfs Mine Train at Magic Kingdom Park and Radiator Springs Racers at Disney California Adventure park (subject to limited availability; attractions not included with Disney Genie+)."
> 
> So it's unclear whether you can book both at the same time. I would assume you can or many wouldn't pay for and book the second one as the ride they most wanted might no longer be available by the time they could book it. Disney wants that money after all.


That is what I think too. thanks!


----------



## jimim

Gordo Gato said:


> You pay for each.
> 
> also any confirmation that you can buy both at once? Or can you only hold one at a time?


Are these also booked day of or before hand. I didn’t catch that. Sorry if it was said a million times.


----------



## Violetspider

jimim said:


> Are these also booked day of or before hand. I didn’t catch that. Sorry if it was said a million times.


Day of at 7AM if you are an on-site guest or once you are through the gates if an off-site guest or local.


----------



## Duck143

I am starting to compile a list of ideas so I can write a thorough email.  I am going to keep adding to the list once they release more info and once officially in use.  It will definitely be interesting to see how it all plays out once it's active.  
I will definitely voice my dislike about having to deal with this Genie+/LL at 7am every day and also, would love the option to add as many or as few park days as we need.  If we have a 10 day hopper, maybe we would pay for half.  I don't know, it just seems like you should be able to pick and choose and not be stuck paying for everyone all days or have to wait until you show up at the park.


----------



## DisneyAuntie12

Absolute Coaster said:


> Riding rides during the fireworks and parades helps to avoid lots of the lines. Once, I went on the Astro Orbiters during the fireworks and it was very magical. More magical than being in a sea of people on Main Street.



Off topic, but what a great idea! I feel like we need a thread for "Things You Never Would Have Thought To Try At Disney World, But Totally Should."


----------



## JakeAZ

quandrea said:


> So basically, no meaningful feedback whatsoever.


Yes, that is correct.  But I just wanted to add my email to the mix.


----------



## mcd2745

My question regarding Genie+ is...if you want to pay for it, do you have to get it for every person, for ever day of your tickets (kinda like the way the dining plan was), or can you just get it for your MK day if you wanted? I'm sure I'm not alone in not seeing a lot of value in it for an Epcot day.


----------



## bunkerchump

I've been struggling with this internally since the announcement - absorbing posts, you tube vids, etc.   Trying to rationalize it..   I don't post very often - just because most of the time what I would say has already been said or asked a thousand times..   This time I just feel I need to get this off my chest.   We've been DVC owners for over 10 years.   We look forward to our trips every year.   Despite price increases well above cost of living (admission, food, etc), we want to come back.  Despite cheapening of entertainment (or more recently elimination of), upcoming elimination of DME & free magic bands, we still look forward to our visits.  Our enjoyment of the parks and our interaction with the CMs that have always been so overwhelming positive - up until now this has more than offset the negative changes.   Now enter Genie..   

Genie for me has tipped the scale where honestly I am for the first time not looking forward to our November trip and I cannot understand totally why.   For me it's not a question of whether I could pay....   I refuse to pay it - out of Spite I guess.  I'm afraid that I only will spite my family - and this is why I cannot understand my position other than the feeling that WDW takes the position of zero loyalty to returning guests/DVC owners, and only wants to fleece their golden sheep that are 1st time guests and/or the Disney enthusiasts will just pay whatever or just coming back regardless (and up until now I'd classify myself as the latter).   I'm considering selling my DVC contract, but I'll make the final decision after our upcoming trip.  I took some comfort that many others feel negative about Genie - but it won't change anything.   This isnt like bringing back Grilled Shrimp or noodles at Ohana.   They obviously plan to make millions per year on a new revenue source and will not be changing their minds in the short term.    Whatever we decide, we'll never leave Disney with anything but great memories, but will likely look to make new memories at new places in the world where we never have been before.   Seems like Disney is perfectly fine with this decision as at least for now, there are enough 1st time visitors that can line their pockets.


----------



## JakeAZ

bunkerchump said:


> Genie for me has tipped the scale where honestly I am for the first time not looking forward to our November trip and I cannot understand totally why. For me it's not a question of whether I could pay.... I refuse to pay it - out of Spite I guess. I'm afraid that I only will spite my family - and this is why I cannot understand my position other than the feeling that WDW takes the position of zero loyalty to returning guests/DVC owners, and only wants to fleece their golden sheep that are 1st time guests and/or the Disney enthusiasts will just pay whatever or just coming back regardless (and up until now I'd classify myself as the latter). I'm considering selling my DVC contract, but I'll make the final decision after our upcoming trip. I took some comfort that many others feel negative about Genie - but it won't change anything. This isnt like bringing back Grilled Shrimp or noodles at Ohana. They obviously plan to make millions per year on a new revenue source and will not be changing their minds in the short term. Whatever we decide, we'll never leave Disney with anything but great memories, but will likely look to make new memories at new places in the world where we never have been before. Seems like Disney is perfectly fine with this decision as at least for now, there are enough 1st time visitors that can line their pockets.


Nailed it.

Of all the people, DVC are the ones this affects the most.  They, for the most part, bought a "lifetime" contract to be on-site and Disney has basically wiped the slate clean of on-site benefits.

I'm not DVC, but we are renting points in November.  The plan was to rent first and consider buying.  Zero chance of that happening now.  To be fair, the possibility went to 0 well before Genie was announced.  I saw the writing on the wall for the direction they were going in regards to on-site benefits.


----------



## Raychell

I work nights, so as it was slow I wrote a SECOND email, LOL. Again, long post, sorry!


I've already written once, detailing how I saw the Lightning Lane options playing out for our days in the parks. I'd like to share some of my more generalized takes on these changes.

1. The Genie granted wishes FOR FREE, AND IN THE END ALADDIN USED A WISH TO SET HIM FREE. This really feels like whoring out Robin Williams' memory. Sorry, but the Genie and Robin Williams are favorites of mine. I can't fathom either one being so greedy as to demand payment for their generosity. Disney has phenomenal magic powers, not to mention phenomenal banks of money - but the little people, the guests, need to keep paying and paying for things that used to be freely given in the Disney generosity of spirit.

2. Now, instead of planning ahead so I can RELAX WITH MY FAMILY in the parks, I will feel obligated to plan throughout the day, beginning at 0700. While on VACATION. AND PAY FOR THE "PRIVILEGE."

3. Now, when I buy a two-day park hopper for $346, to remain ahead of the pack like I could in the days of FastPass, I will have to pay $15 per day, $30 total. I then will also likely have to pay, let's say $20 per day, $40 total, to guarantee access to a popular ride without wasting 15-20% of my time in the park waiting in a 90+ minute line. 

$346 is now magically $416, a 20% increase, for planning advantages from FastPass that were previously free. For my group of ten that's $700. We could do two fireworks cruises with that money. Dessert parties. Character meals. Trader Sam's. Mickey Balloons. Sit down meals as a family. Build droids or light sabers. It's killing me making this list. If I wasn't shelling out extra for these things, then shelling out that money for something that used to be FREE is just gross.

4. YOU should be paying ME to spend less time in line so that we could spend more money on food and shopping. Instead, now I am insulted and will ultimately spend less overall - not only to recoup the cost of Genie+ and Lightning Lane, but also to throw in a little "screw you" for making my park days less enjoyable. I take my dollars where I feel loved. I DO NOT LOVE worrying the entire time whether we will get to do most of what we want. I DO NOT LOVE using my phone to make a new decision every 20 minutes. I DO NOT LOVE paying extra for services that were previously free.

5. So should I solely use the free Genie app? I do think this piece could be extremely useful - for planning your days out ahead of time. I know this is intended to help the Disney planning novice or infrequent visitor. That's great! But why on earth did you have to add a paid component to it? Now, instead of this being seen as a lovely added benefit, it is overshadowed by the money grab. And, again, I would only find this useful ahead of time. It will just create more stress to use it while in the parks.

6. Speaking of the infrequent visitor, people who have to save for rare trips to Disney can not afford to leave their scarce and hard-earned vacation time and money purely up to chance *hoping* this new system works. What happens when Genie tells me at 9:30 that Splash Mountain has a 20-minute wait but by the time we trek over there it has inflated to 40? Will you reimburse me somehow for that wasted time and energy following bad advice? At least if I make the decision on my own there's no one to blame but myself. I predict you will have just as many complaints from people who can't or choose not to use the Genie app as you had complaints from people who didn't want to reserve their Fast Passes in advance. Some people just don't/won't/can't put in the work for a better experience. And either option requires work.

6. Perception is reality, and my perception is that you want 20% more money from me without providing 20% more magic. How about the Genie granting everyone three wishes in the form of three free fast passes every day? Oh, wait, you decided that was too much work and no fun. 

The really sad part for me is knowing I'm stuck because I already promised my kids and grandkids this trip to Disney in November. I was so looking forward to it. Planning a trip for ten people is no joke. It is a labor of love. I've always felt a little foolish spending the kind of time and money I dedicate to planning a magical vacation. I've argued with people who've never been that they just don't understand - Disney magic is worth the money. Well. Maybe this proves them right. I feel betrayed. Is that extreme? I don't know. But that's how I feel.


----------



## jimim

Violetspider said:


> Day of at 7AM if you are an on-site guest or once you are through the gates if an off-site guest or local.


So both the genie plus ones and if I pay for the 2 top tier rides?  Logistically how is that going to work can u book the extra pay top tier ones at same time and also have genie plus ones going? So book 3 rides at 7am?


----------



## jimim

bunkerchump said:


> I've been struggling with this internally since the announcement - absorbing posts, you tube vids, etc.   Trying to rationalize it..   I don't post very often - just because most of the time what I would say has already been said or asked a thousand times..   This time I just feel I need to get this off my chest.   We've been DVC owners for over 10 years.   We look forward to our trips every year.   Despite price increases well above cost of living (admission, food, etc), we want to come back.  Despite cheapening of entertainment (or more recently elimination of), upcoming elimination of DME & free magic bands, we still look forward to our visits.  Our enjoyment of the parks and our interaction with the CMs that have always been so overwhelming positive - up until now this has more than offset the negative changes.   Now enter Genie..
> 
> Genie for me has tipped the scale where honestly I am for the first time not looking forward to our November trip and I cannot understand totally why.   For me it's not a question of whether I could pay....   I refuse to pay it - out of Spite I guess.  I'm afraid that I only will spite my family - and this is why I cannot understand my position other than the feeling that WDW takes the position of zero loyalty to returning guests/DVC owners, and only wants to fleece their golden sheep that are 1st time guests and/or the Disney enthusiasts will just pay whatever or just coming back regardless (and up until now I'd classify myself as the latter).   I'm considering selling my DVC contract, but I'll make the final decision after our upcoming trip.  I took some comfort that many others feel negative about Genie - but it won't change anything.   This isnt like bringing back Grilled Shrimp or noodles at Ohana.   They obviously plan to make millions per year on a new revenue source and will not be changing their minds in the short term.    Whatever we decide, we'll never leave Disney with anything but great memories, but will likely look to make new memories at new places in the world where we never have been before.   Seems like Disney is perfectly fine with this decision as at least for now, there are enough 1st time visitors that can line their pockets.



Yup. me exactly. Same exact feeling as you. I keep cc’ing trips. At first it was cause of covid but I cx’ed my Xmas trip cause I don’t feel like making park reservations for parks that will be loaded with people anyway and now this. I have an April trip booked at Easter but I really might cx that also and I am going to rent out all my points for my 22 use year I think. I’m not selling the contract yet. I’ll rent points and make money and see what happens. My contract was payed in cash so I might as well rent points and pocket some money.


----------



## luv2cheer92

mcd2745 said:


> My question regarding Genie+ is...if you want to pay for it, do you have to get it for every person, for ever day of your tickets (kinda like the way the dining plan was), or can you just get it for your MK day if you wanted? I'm sure I'm not alone in not seeing a lot of value in it for an Epcot day.


There are two options. You can add it on as part of your trip package when you book your trip. This will add it on to every person for every day. OR you can add it on individually each day, this is done starting at midnight for the day you wish to use it. Doing it this way you can do it day by day and just for specific people.


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## JakeAZ

Raychell said:


> Perception is reality, and my perception is that you want 20% more money from me without providing 20% more magic


That is magic...Disney magic


----------



## luv2cheer92

JakeAZ said:


> Nailed it.
> 
> Of all the people, DVC are the ones this affects the most.  They, for the most part, bought a "lifetime" contract to be on-site and Disney has basically wiped the slate clean of on-site benefits.
> 
> I'm not DVC, but we are renting points in November.  The plan was to rent first and consider buying.  Zero chance of that happening now.  To be fair, the possibility went to 0 well before Genie was announced.  I saw the writing on the wall for the direction they were going in regards to on-site benefits.


I always love seeing how everyone can have such different opinions. Genie hasn't really tipped the scale one way or the other for me, but I started seriously looking at buying DVC about a year ago, and that interest has grown considerably in the last couple months.


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## rdaky

I didn't read all 77 pages of comments, but this reminds me of the uproar when resort parking fees were added. So many people were upset, threatened to not stay on property ever again, to never go to WDW again... in the end, resort parking fees are still here and people are still paying for them. After all of the screaming and moaning ends, people will pay for this, as well.


----------



## Dave006

mcd2745 said:


> My question regarding Genie+ is...if you want to pay for it, do you have to get it for every person, for ever day of your tickets (kinda like the way the dining plan was), or can you just get it for your MK day if you wanted?


Only if you choose to purchase Genie+ as part of your package then it would follow the rules as your package vs a daily option to add Disney+ beginning at 12 AM on your park day.

Dave


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## JakeAZ

luv2cheer92 said:


> I always love seeing how everyone can have such different opinions. Genie hasn't really tipped the scale one way or the other for me, but I started seriously looking at buying DVC about a year ago, and that interest has grown considerably in the last couple months.


Wait a little longer...you'll get a better deal


----------



## luv2cheer92

JakeAZ said:


> Wait a little longer...you'll get a better deal


That is the sole reason why I haven't yet.


----------



## JakeAZ

luv2cheer92 said:


> That is the sole reason why I haven't yet.


Be cautious though.  If Disney starts passing on their ROFR on "good deals", that's a bad omen.


----------



## bunkerchump

rdaky said:


> I didn't read all 77 pages of comments, but this reminds me of the uproar when resort parking fees were added. So many people were upset, threatened to not stay on property ever again, to never go to WDW again... in the end, resort parking fees are still here and people are still paying for them. After all of the screaming and moaning ends, people will pay for this, as well.



This is different for me.  Again not sure exactly why because we've been fleeced before...   This is the first time I've ever felt this way, and I'm guessing there are some others here too.   All I can say is that if it remains as advertised, I will NOT be buying into Genie Plus.   If I'm the minority - fine.. call me stubborn - fine...   others can do what they want and I'm not going to try to convince them otherwise....  We'll see if I can deal without it in November, and if I cannot, if Luv2cheer hasnt bought into DVC yet, there may be a BCV one coming to market.....


----------



## JakeAZ

bunkerchump said:


> This is different for me


I agree.  Parking fees are a nuisance, but also avoidable.

Genie+, while avoidable, could severely put you at a disadvantage in the parks if you don't buy it.  It may become a requirement, down the road, to ensure you're able to feel like the rest of the $1000s or $10,000s you spent, was "worth it".


----------



## Sjm9911

luv2cheer92 said:


> There are two options. You can add it on as part of your trip package when you book your trip. This will add it on to every person for every day. OR you can add it on individually each day, this is done starting at midnight for the day you wish to use it. Doing it this way you can do it day by day and just for specific people.


Great now I have to stay up to midnight to add it and get up at 7 am to use it. Lol. This keeps getting better and better.


----------



## bunkerchump

JakeAZ said:


> I agree.  Parking fees are a nuisance, but also avoidable.
> 
> Genie+, while avoidable, could severely put you at a disadvantage in the parks if you don't buy it.  It may become a requirement, down the road, to ensure you're able to feel like the rest of the $1000s or $10,000s you spent, was "worth it".



Yup - exactly...  and the fact that they just expect we will pay for it is quite honestly insulting.


----------



## luv2cheer92

Sjm9911 said:


> Great now I have to stay up to midnight to add it and get up at 7 am to use it. Lol. This keeps getting better and better.


I could very well be wrong, but I really don't see any reason why you would need to get it at midnight.


----------



## JakeAZ

luv2cheer92 said:


> I could very well be wrong, but I really don't see any reason why you would need to get it at midnight.


Agree.  You can probably buy it instantly before you want to use it.

Disney tech, although not the best, will usually cooperate fairly quickly when you're ready to pay.


----------



## FCDub

rdaky said:


> I didn't read all 77 pages of comments, but this reminds me of the uproar when resort parking fees were added. So many people were upset, threatened to not stay on property ever again, to never go to WDW again... in the end, resort parking fees are still here and people are still paying for them. After all of the screaming and moaning ends, people will pay for this, as well.



Remember when letting people bring dogs to certain hotels would ASSUREDLY create rabid packs of terrorizing animals just looking to sink their teeth into toddlers? Another huge sky-is-falling drama that turned out fine. This will too.


----------



## luv2cheer92

FCDub said:


> Remember when letting people bring dogs to certain hotels would ASSUREDLY create rabid packs of terrorizing animals just looking to sink their teeth into toddlers? Another huge sky-is-falling drama that turned out fine. This will too.


Man, I totally forgot about that. Those threads were bananas.


----------



## Neener16

FCDub said:


> Remember when letting people bring dogs to certain hotels would ASSUREDLY create rabid packs of terrorizing animals just looking to sink their teeth into toddlers? Another huge sky-is-falling drama that turned out fine. This will too.


Agree, but this is about money and feeling taken advantage of. I don’t think it’s the same with the dog thing. Although you are correct, people had strong reactions to that as well. I would love it if I looked back over this time and feel I overreacted. I started looking into Universal since I’ve been wanting to go for awhile but didn’t want to give up my Disney trip. One huge thing that  Disney has but Universal doesn’t seem to- access to many gluten free meal options. Both my daughter and I have celiac and it’s so nice to go somewhere where we have all kinds of choices. At the moment though I am still not in the mood to hand over my money to Disney.


----------



## jjb1974

FCDub said:


> Remember when letting people bring dogs to certain hotels would ASSUREDLY create rabid packs of terrorizing animals just looking to sink their teeth into toddlers? Another huge sky-is-falling drama that turned out fine. This will too.



I couldn't begin to care what will be the End for Disney (tm). I know what is the end of my tolerance, and that's all I care about.


----------



## Delirium

FCDub said:


> Remember when letting people bring dogs to certain hotels would ASSUREDLY create rabid packs of terrorizing animals just looking to sink their teeth into toddlers? Another huge sky-is-falling drama that turned out fine. This will too.



That's an absurd comparison, because guests still had the choice to select other resorts and not be at a disadvantage.  Sure, a guest could choose to ignore Genie and forego the Lightning Lane.  But, it puts then at a distinct disadvantage
.


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## Delirium

Never Mind


----------



## FCDub

Delirium said:


> That's an absurd comparison, because guests still had the choice to select other resorts and not be at a disadvantage.  Sure, a guest could choose to ignore Genie and forego the Lightning Lane.  But, it puts then at a distinct disadvantage
> .



How dare you question MY opinion? (I can do this, too.)


----------



## menotyou21

mousestruck said:


> I have to disagree somewhat. We go year after year. While we spend less on souvenirs, we spend a lot more on dining. No free dining for us as DVC members, and dining has become a bigger part of our experience as my kids are now grown and we are older.  We also splurge on tours and other special events to keep things fresh and new. So if Disney values us less or thinks we spend less on our trips, they are wrong.


This is spot on. Good friend of mine with kids 9 & 4 just went and they spent nearly $500 on toys...no joke. But they ate QS the entire time because this was a "once every 5 years" trip. My fam with kids 15/15/13/11 went and we spent about $150 total on shirts/etc....while having meals at CRT, BOG, etc.; spending at least $2,000 just on food!


----------



## bsmcneil

luv2cheer92 said:


> I always love seeing how everyone can have such different opinions. Genie hasn't really tipped the scale one way or the other for me, but I started seriously looking at buying DVC about a year ago, and that interest has grown considerably in the last couple months.


LOL, can I just say that I read your post and thought, "I bet it's ____" (your screenname). You are remarkably consistent, and from what I can tell - not often duplicated - in your opinion!


----------



## Robbie Cottam

squirk said:


> I agree with you - I'd never go in August.  But I'm pretty sure the numbers are there.
> 
> To your larger point, though, I think Disney has been hoisted by their own petard here.  We've been trained for 20 years that there's a better way to get on rides than standing in a long line for an hour or more.  And we've come to expect this better way to be included in the cost of our ticket.
> 
> So with people getting angry or upset, Disney really has no one to blame but themselves. They cultivated this mindset for a long time.


Im pretty sure I read  somewhere the only constant in life is change.

Disney has an absolute duty to it shareholder to make as large of return on investment it can.  If people are willing to pay more to cut the line, Disney has a duty to capture that extra revenue stream.  

The only voice you or any none share holder has in this matter is where you spend your money.  Don’t like it don’t go… If ticket sales drop Disney will be force to reevaluate. Something tells me, Disney has teams of marketing people with MBA after their names that have done countless CBAs to figure out that what the market will support.


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## dominiondad

I'm struggling with some of the logistics.  If I stay offsite, I can make my Genie+ reservations when the parks open.  That means I will be on my phone, head down, talking to my family, as we work our way thru security and the turnstiles.  Other families will be doing the same.  There are already people who go thru these lines seemingly clueless that they have to open their bags, present valid admission, and push thru a turnstile.  This will just add to the what families are trying to do at the same moment.  I would love to see Disney allow folks to make reservations the night before.  Something like resort guests start at 9:00 pm, offsite starts at 9:30 pm.  Allow me to head to the park without knowing I will have to spend the first moments of my day hoping my cell phone has a strong connection and that MDE is up and running.


----------



## Cabius

dominiondad said:


> I'm struggling with some of the logistics.  If I stay offsite, I can make my Genie+ reservations when the parks open.


I believe the Park Open timeline is only for the pay-per-ride option. Regular Genie+ passes can be booked by all guests at 7AM.

I assume most guests won’t pay for individual attractions, and those that do so may book them throughout the day, not all ASAP upon entering the park. I could be wrong.


----------



## squirk

Robbie Cottam said:


> Im pretty sure I read  somewhere the only constant in life is change.
> 
> Disney has an absolute duty to it shareholder to make as large of return on investment it can.  If people are willing to pay more to cut the line, Disney has a duty to capture that extra revenue stream.
> 
> The only voice you or any none share holder has in this matter is where you spend your money.  Don’t like it don’t go… If ticket sales drop Disney will be force to reevaluate. Something tells me, Disney has teams of marketing people with MBA after their names that have done countless CBAs to figure out that what the market will support.



Yes, I understand how a for-profit corporation works.  My point was not that Disney owes us a free FP system. Rather, my point was that they cultivated this “free FP included with the price of your ticket!” mindset for 20 years, so the backlash is hardly a surprise.

And I agree that Disney has had tons of people examining and studying the feasibility of Genie before they made a commitment.  That said:

1.) I know a lot of MBAs; some of them are not _that_ smart; and that degree doesn’t make them any less prone to error, confirmation bias and overconfidence than anybody else;

2.) Even the best marketing minds can only do so much if they are getting poor directives from upper management; and

3.) I think we all have seen, either first-hand or in the news, a lot of big companies, similarly employing a lot of “smart” people with a lot of letters after their name, that still screwed things up royally.

In short, Disney’s not infallible.  I’m not saying they haven’t crossed “t”s and dotted “i”s with Genie+/LL, but they still could be mis-calibrating our appetite for it.

And of course, if they are wrong, they’ll never admit that.  They’ll just create new “magical offers” of some sort (e.g., free LL passes for Deluxe resort guests) that makes it look like they’re doing us a munificent favor vs. outright cutting prices on anything.


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## MakiraMarlena

If you are just talking about Genie+, what I understand is that EVERYONE, onsite or off, can make their first Genie + booking at 7 am regardless of where they are at the time.

Resort guests get 7am to purchase Tier 1 rides individually, everyone else waits for park open.

What that means I suppose, is that onsite guests can try for the virtual queue in the AM and then immediately afterward buy the ride if they don't get in through the VQ. Everyone else who wants to buy will need to wait until park open.


----------



## nkereina

JakeAZ said:


> I agree.  Parking fees are a nuisance, but also avoidable.
> 
> Genie+, while avoidable, could severely put you at a disadvantage in the parks if you don't buy it.  It may become a requirement, down the road, to ensure you're able to feel like the rest of the $1000s or $10,000s you spent, was "worth it".


I get your point, but to say it would put one at a _severe_ disadvantage is extreme. People were in the parks every day without having any knowledge of FP+ or not utilizing FP+ to its fullest potential. Standby lines are always an option and will theoretically move faster because not as many people are inclined to purchase Genie+ as there were using the free FP+. Those who don't purchase Genie+ can still take advantage of rope drop and strategize their ride order during the day, just as people have done all along. There will always be options for people to ride without spending an additional dime. All Genie+ does is lessen your wait time.


----------



## JakeAZ

nkereina said:


> I get your point, but to say it would put one at a _severe_ disadvantage is extreme. People were in the parks every day without having any knowledge of FP+ or not utilizing FP+ to its fullest potential. Standby lines are always an option and will theoretically move faster because not as many people are inclined to purchase Genie+ as there were using the free FP+. Those who don't purchase Genie+ can still take advantage of rope drop and strategize their ride order during the day, just as people have done all along. There will always be options for people to ride without spending an additional dime. All Genie+ does is lessen your wait time.


Sure, but I'd say if you spent what a WDW vacation costs and either didn't put int he time to find out how to use FP+ or didn't even know it existed, you put yourself (and family) at a (severe) disadvantage.  Not having 3 pre scheduled rides and not knowing you could keep grabbing them after that, meant you wasted unnecessary hours in line.

It remains to be seen how popular Genie+ becomes.  But as much as I don't like what I'm hearing, we will most likely consider it for most days of our Thanksgiving trip.  I see Genie+ as an insurance policy.  Nobody likes to pay for insurance, but if you need it, you're glad you did.

That being said, it will also be (one of many) reasons we probably won't be clamoring to return.


----------



## NuJoy

()


----------



## rdaky

nkereina said:


> I get your point, but to say it would put one at a _severe_ disadvantage is extreme. People were in the parks every day without having any knowledge of FP+ or not utilizing FP+ to its fullest potential. Standby lines are always an option and will theoretically move faster because not as many people are inclined to purchase Genie+ as there were using the free FP+. Those who don't purchase Genie+ can still take advantage of rope drop and strategize their ride order during the day, just as people have done all along. There will always be options for people to ride without spending an additional dime. All Genie+ does is lessen your wait time.



Totally agree. Not purchasing a VIP tour could technically put you at a disadvantage too, since VIPs get to go to the front of all of the lines. But does that mean that I'm going to have a lousy trip because I can't afford VIP? No. But if I spend the whole time being jealous and grumpy that the big spenders don't have to waste time in line, then I might turn it into a lousy trip, but that's on me. It's the same with FP. People are still standing in lines, people have always stood in lines. If it's going to ruin your trip and you don't want to pay for it, then rope drop. Or go in the off-season.I was just at Epcot last week and walked onto every single ride except Frozen. Zero wait. Or just stand in line with the thousands of other people standing in line who aren't complaining but are just enjoying their vacations. Everything is perspective.


----------



## JakeAZ

rdaky said:


> Totally agree. Not purchasing a VIP tour could technically put you at a disadvantage too, since VIPs get to go to the front of all of the lines. But does that mean that I'm going to have a lousy trip because I can't afford VIP? No. But if I spend the whole time being jealous and grumpy that the big spenders don't have to waste time in line, then I might turn it into a lousy trip, but that's on me. It's the same with FP. People are still standing in lines, people have always stood in lines. If it's going to ruin your trip and you don't want to pay for it, then rope drop. Or go in the off-season.I was just at Epcot last week and walked onto every single ride except Frozen. Zero wait. Or just stand in line with the thousands of other people standing in line who aren't complaining but are just enjoying their vacations. Everything is perspective.


Valid points, but all situations are not the same.

We live across the country and with school-aged kids, the offseason isn't really an option for us.  Nor do I want to be in Florida in August.  I don't even want to be in Arizona in August...and I live there!

Based on what we are paying for this trip, if I had to spend hour after hour in lines, ya, I'd say that would leave a bad taste in my mouth.  If buying something like Genie+ will help with that, then yes, I will bite the bullet and add that money to the heap.

But I see the transition WDW is making.  Less for more.  Some have no problems with this.  "Less" is still enough.  Or maybe they go often enough to not worry about missing things.  To each their own.

For me, I feel like the Disney value proposition just seems to keep moving in one direction only.

But hey, business is booming!  Will it be booming, with more inevitable price increases, in late 2022 / early 2023?  We'll see.


----------



## Kingoglow

Delirium said:


> That's an absurd comparison, because guests still had the choice to select other resorts and not be at a disadvantage.  Sure, a guest could choose to ignore Genie and forego the Lightning Lane.  But, it puts then at a distinct disadvantage.



We can argue over 'disadvantaged' being based upon what ones expectations are.

In the end, I think that Genie+LL has value in MK, 100%. Less value at HS, but I can see the case if a family values Tower of Terror and Rockin Roller Coaster a lot; I don't so I don't mind standing for Smuggler's Run and Railroad. I don't see any value in purchasing Genie+LL in EPCOT or AK.

As long as I can purchase Genie+ for my family for our MK days prior to the 7am booking window day of, then I am fine with the system and wont feel disadvantaged watching people pay $15 per person to LL Spaceship Earth and Figment.


----------



## ZellyB

I went back to try and quote someone who I think made a very good point that I wanted to agree with, but since I can't find it, I'll just reiterate.  

I think a lot of people are naturally thinking about G+ as this process that just sort of layers onto their old experiences during FP+ days.  But, the big unknown is how well G+ will work now that FP+ is out of the picture.  So, previously FPs were consumed very early by visitors booking 3 of them at 30-60 days out.  So, in effect, everyone visiting that wanted to was consuming 3 FP slots early and keeping them all likely through their park day.  Now G+ only allows you to hold one LL at a time thus leaving many more LL available slots out there for people to get.  And, likely not everyone will choose to purchase G+ so fewer people who can book LL for tier 2 rides.  So, are people sort of thinking about what it was like to try and get that 4th FP as being how G+ will work after you've gotten and used your first LL, because I think it will be quite different than that?  Only being able to hold one at a time (similar to MaxPass but even more so if no stacking is allowed) availability for those LL should be much better and stay available later in the day than we used to see in the old FP+ days.  That is what gives me some hope that G+ might work reasonably well.  If as well fewer people are hold LL (or old days FP+) at any given time, theoretically standby lines should move a tiny bit faster.  

I don't think any of us can fully guess that impact until G+ is up and running, but I think Disney likely has a good idea given their access to the data about how FP+ worked.  I find it unlikely they would create a paid system that only let you score one or two LL for tier 2 rides per day.  I mean it's certainly possible, but if so, likely fewer people will pay for it.  If that happens then you'll see adjustments as Disney works to find the "sweet spot" of value for money spent for the customer and max revenue for Disney.

Anyway, just some thoughts I had to try and hope that this won't be as big of a mess as I'm fearing it will be.


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## Paula25

Just watched the video. I'm confused about the photo aspect of Genie+. Does it mean with Genie+ you basically get a Memory Maker for each day you purchased Genie+?


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## Turksmom

I think "disadvantaged" will depend on how standby lines are affected. If G+ is so heavily used that it's now a 40 minute wait for Nemo, you are definitely at a disadvantage for not purchasing. If standby waits remain the same as they have been historically- then you aren't really disadvantaged, even though you don't get to move through as quickly as people who paid for G+.


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## Turksmom

Paula25 said:


> Just watched the video. I'm confused about the photo aspect of Genie+. Does it mean with Genie+ you basically get a Memory Maker for each day you purchased Genie+?


Only at Disneyland. WDW has AR photo filters instead


----------



## itf

JakeAZ said:


> Sure, but I'd say if you spent what a WDW vacation costs and either didn't put int he time to find out how to use FP+ or didn't even know it existed, you put yourself (and family) at a (severe) disadvantage.  Not having 3 pre scheduled rides and not knowing you could keep grabbing them after that, meant you wasted unnecessary hours in line.



This happened to us - we had 1 day at WDW on the way to a cruise from Port Canaveral last January. We'd had a fine day at Seaworld the day before, ridden some rides, seen the shows etc... then got to WDW on an expensive single day ticket purchased direct from Disney, who sent us no information, gave us no clues. We had no idea about FP until we arrived at the park - my wife and I hadn't been since before it existed, which meant we hadn't booked anything, it turned out to be a busy day and my then 3 year old barely got to ride anything all day, it was a very expensive waste of time - hence I'm here and planning for next year's trip.


----------



## disneyseniors

FCDub said:


> Remember when letting people bring dogs to certain hotels would ASSUREDLY create rabid packs of terrorizing animals just looking to sink their teeth into toddlers? Another huge sky-is-falling drama that turned out fine. This will too.



Yes, but this time if feels different.  I don't know if it is the multiple changes over and over again plus this new genie pay to ride business??  
Whatever it is , it feels different to me. 
We are voting with our wallets and there is no disney in our future at this point.  WE are thinking of a trip to DL, but if they have this genie thing, then we will rethink it.  We will see how this all plays out, who knows?  I just know that our family has hit it's breaking point.


----------



## JakeAZ

disneyseniors said:


> Yes, but this time if feels different.  I don't know if it is the multiple changes over and over again plus this new genie pay to ride business??
> Whatever it is , it feels different to me.
> We are voting with our wallets and there is no disney in our future at this point.  WE are thinking of a trip to DL, but if they have this genie thing, then we will rethink it.  We will see how this all plays out, who knows?  I just know that our family has hit it's breaking point.


Genie will be at both WDW and DLR


----------



## raidermatt

luv2cheer92 said:


> Yea, not gonna continue to try and explain it. Not worth it apparently. Feel free to believe I'm not a planner, you'll just continue to be very, very, very wrong.
> 
> If most people saw my planning process for a one day trip to a nearby town, they would think I was certifiably insane. Every single possible situation/scenario is thought of, with corresponding solutions. My Disney plans would blow many peoples minds. Like 20 pages for a 4 day trip, and I go multiple times a year.
> 
> But again, you don't have to understand it.




Lol, ok,


----------



## luv2cheer92

disneyseniors said:


> Yes, but this time if feels different.  I don't know if it is the multiple changes over and over again plus this new genie pay to ride business??
> Whatever it is , it feels different to me.
> We are voting with our wallets and there is no disney in our future at this point.  WE are thinking of a trip to DL, but if they have this genie thing, then we will rethink it.  We will see how this all plays out, who knows?  I just know that our family has hit it's breaking point.


They were announced at the same time for both WDW and DLR. It costs more at DL ($20/day per person), but includes photos.


----------



## ZellyB

raidermatt said:


> Lol, ok,



I understand where @luv2cheer92 is coming from.  I'm a big planner and so all of this makes me a little twitchy, but as another poster said, I more imagine that my planning just becomes different.  It changed when FP+ replaced legacy FP and it will change again with G+.  I'll still have to plan my park days because of park reservations.  I'll still need to plan my ADRs.  I'll plan which fireworks shows I'll be watching based on the park I'm in that day.  And then I'll have a general plan of attack for G+, LL and* IF* we do IAS.  I don't know what that looks like yet, but I'm hopeful that before my January trip it will have been used by numerous folks here and I can do my planning accordingly.  It's weird to have my planning have to change this way, but I really do think I'll still be a planner, it will just look a bit different.


----------



## luv2cheer92

ZellyB said:


> I understand where @luv2cheer92 is coming from.  I'm a big planner and so all of this makes me a little twitchy, but as another poster said, I more imagine that my planning just becomes different.  It changed when FP+ replaced legacy FP and it will change again with G+.  I'll still have to plan my park days because of park reservations.  I'll still need to plan my ADRs.  I'll plan which fireworks shows I'll be watching based on the park I'm in that day.  And then I'll have a general plan of attack for G+, LL and* IF* we do IAS.  I don't know what that looks like yet, but I'm hopeful that before my January trip it will have been used by numerous folks here and I can do my planning accordingly.  It's weird to have my planning have to change this way, but I really do think I'll still be a planner, it will just look a bit different.


For me it allows me to come up with more plans for more possible scenarios, which to me is a planner's dream!! "If I get a LL for this, I can do this, but if I don't, then I'll do this" x100 for each day. Its a different kind of planning, but it absolutely still is planning.
I just find it funny when a total stranger thinks they know me better than myself haha


----------



## bookgirl

Don't know if it's been posted yet but a travel agent who does Social Media took the Genie Training Friday.

Resort guests will be able to start booking at 7am.  Non resort guests will need to be in a park (after park opening) before they can make Genie reservations (and it kind of sounded like Virtual Queues are also 7am for onsite, after Park Opening for offsite).

That will be a big advantage in the new system.


----------



## MikeandReneePlus5

Wow.  I guess I always thought the day would come when Disney charged for FP...but now that it is here I am feeling surprised.

The biggest question to me is what will this do to stand by queues?  Because I believe FP+ significantly increased SB waits from the old paper FP days.  And it seems that when there was no FP system at all for the past year SB waits were pretty reasonable across the board.  Maybe I am wrong about that I wasn't following too closely.


----------



## luv2cheer92

bookgirl said:


> Don't know if it's been posted yet but a travel agent who does Social Media took the Genie Training Friday.
> 
> Resort guests will be able to start booking at 7am.  Non resort guests will need to be in a park (after park opening) before they can make Genie reservations (and it kind of sounded like Virtual Queues are also 7am for onsite, after Park Opening for offsite).
> 
> That will be a big advantage in the new system.


Thats different than what has been shared numerous times so far. With anybody being able to make Genie + rides at 7, but only onsite could do the additional LL rides at 7.


----------



## JakeAZ

bookgirl said:


> Resort guests will be able to start booking at 7am. Non resort guests will need to be in a park (after park opening) before they can make Genie reservations (and it kind of sounded like Virtual Queues are also 7am for onsite, after Park Opening for offsite).


IF this is true, that is a bigger on-site benefit.  I still don't like having to be up at 7am each day, but if it gives me an advantage, I will.

I don't see how they can do the ROTR VQ for on-site at 7am and make everyone else tap into the park.  Hard to believe there would be any spots left by then.


----------



## JakeAZ

MikeandReneePlus5 said:


> And it seems that when there was no FP system at all for the past year SB waits were pretty reasonable across the board. Maybe I am wrong about that I wasn't following too closely.


Without true FP, yes the SB lines moved quicker, but it varied by time of year, based on crowd size and as WDW expanded capacity.

Based on occupancy starting October 1st, I doubt standing in SB line, after SB line for a week, would be anyone's idea of a good time. We'll see how this all shakes out soon.


----------



## JakeAZ

bunkerchump said:


> Yup - exactly...  and the fact that they just expect we will pay for it is quite honestly insulting.


But 100% "on brand" for them.


----------



## raidermatt

ZellyB said:


> I understand where @luv2cheer92 is coming from.  I'm a big planner and so all of this makes me a little twitchy, but as another poster said, I more imagine that my planning just becomes different.  It changed when FP+ replaced legacy FP and it will change again with G+.  I'll still have to plan my park days because of park reservations.  I'll still need to plan my ADRs.  I'll plan which fireworks shows I'll be watching based on the park I'm in that day.  And then I'll have a general plan of attack for G+, LL and* IF* we do IAS.  I don't know what that looks like yet, but I'm hopeful that before my January trip it will have been used by numerous folks here and I can do my planning accordingly.  It's weird to have my planning have to change this way, but I really do think I'll still be a planner, it will just look a bit different.



This makes sense.  You are more like me.  This level of planning all fits on a single spreadsheet.  I do think the uncertainty over LL availability on any given day is going to cause more issues than you think, but other than that, a general outline for the day will look similar.  We just won't have the ability to plan the early part of the day in more detail due to not having advance FP's.

But this is not the way a "100% type A, incredibly detailed planner" preps for a WDW trip.  What you and I do is child's play for these folks.  Their plans are like the battle plan for the Normandy invasion.  Attraction sequence laid out for the entire day, all meals planned and timed (even counter service), everything for the day on a detailed itinerary with various if/then scenarios built in.  If they are using a spreadsheet, each day is its own full sheet.  

If you now tell one of these people they can no longer plan those FP's 60 days out, they are not happy.  Period.  Yes, they will adjust, doing a great deal more research and having to build more complex contingency plans.  So they will deal with it, but they would MUCH rather have the certainty of those 3 FP's to build around.  And even at the general outline level of planning we do, if we are being honest we would admit we would prefer those 3 FPs as well.

That is all I am saying.  Not that it has to be a deal breaker.  Just that if you like to plan, anything that takes away part of your ability to plan is a negative.  And the more you plan, the bigger the negative.


----------



## Katie Dawn

I have seen several people say they think they will purchase G+ for certain parks, but not for others. Could anyone explain why G+ would/wouldn't be helpful in the different parks?

I don't remember which parks have fallen into which category, except I know several have said they likely wouldn't purchase G+ at HS.  That is confusing to me since the lines at that park seem to be so much longer than at others. But is the general idea that there are fewer rides there so you wouldn't be able to use it as much?


----------



## StarrySkye21

The 7 am thing is irking me because I will be on my flight on the way to WDW and our first park (Epcot) and thus missing the virtual queue line for Remy and early genie+ selections.


----------



## bookgirl

luv2cheer92 said:


> Thats different than what has been shared numerous times so far. With anybody being able to make Genie + rides at 7, but only onsite could do the additional LL rides at 7.




Could be.  She was just doing a quick IG story so it might have gotten lost in translation, but it seemed to be the selling point for onsite stays was this onsite/offsite distinction.  

Having it be just the LL would still be an advantage but not as big as being able to make your first reservations before park entry.

Hope to see more public information soon.


----------



## bookgirl2632

I may have missed this in the deluge of information about Genie.  I am the one that plans for my group.  Would I be able purchase Genie+ or the individual rides for all of us?  My mom doesn’t even have an MDE account because I do all of our planning.


----------



## menotyou21

Robbie Cottam said:


> Im pretty sure I read  somewhere the only constant in life is change.
> 
> Disney has an absolute duty to it shareholder to make as large of return on investment it can.  If people are willing to pay more to cut the line, Disney has a duty to capture that extra revenue stream.
> 
> The only voice you or any none share holder has in this matter is where you spend your money.  Don’t like it don’t go… If ticket sales drop Disney will be force to reevaluate. Something tells me, Disney has teams of marketing people with MBA after their names that have done countless CBAs to figure out that what the market will support.


No doubt Disney must capitalize on their immense popularity. They constantly have crowds and charge a premium already. They have to charge for skipping the lines IMO.....however, their rollout seems a bit clunky.  In addition, it seems all the other parks generally have 1 level of "skip the line".  WDW will essentially have 3, which makes it a bit complicated even for the savvy vacationer.

On another note....to this day I HATE that they charge resort guests to park. But it's the market....I just had to pay $22/day to park at a resort in Dallas area....seriously....Dallas...painful...  LOL


----------



## nkereina

JakeAZ said:


> Sure, but I'd say if you spent what a WDW vacation costs and either didn't put int he time to find out how to use FP+ or didn't even know it existed, you put yourself (and family) at a (severe) disadvantage.  Not having 3 pre scheduled rides and not knowing you could keep grabbing them after that, meant you wasted unnecessary hours in line.
> 
> It remains to be seen how popular Genie+ becomes.  But as much as I don't like what I'm hearing, we will most likely consider it for most days of our Thanksgiving trip.  I see Genie+ as an insurance policy.  Nobody likes to pay for insurance, but if you need it, you're glad you did.
> 
> That being said, it will also be (one of many) reasons we probably won't be clamoring to return.


I think our definitions of "severe" may be different, and that's where we can agree to disagree. If a person with Genie+ rides 15 rides in one day while a person without Genie+ rides 10 rides, is that a _severe _disadvantage? Its a matter of opinion I suppose. It also depends on whether those 5 extra rides are worth the cost of Genie+ for your travel party.

It may be that Genie+ operates like Express Pass at Universal - the standby line folks are not at a disadvantage because they can still get everything done in a full day whereas the fast pass people can do the same amount of stuff, just in half the time.


----------



## luv2cheer92

raidermatt said:


> This makes sense.  You are more like me.  This level of planning all fits on a single spreadsheet.  I do think the uncertainty over LL availability on any given day is going to cause more issues than you think, but other than that, a general outline for the day will look similar.  We just won't have the ability to plan the early part of the day in more detail due to not having advance FP's.
> 
> But this is not the way a "100% type A, incredibly detailed planner" preps for a WDW trip.  What you and I do is child's play for these folks.  Their plans are like the battle plan for the Normandy invasion.  Attraction sequence laid out for the entire day, all meals planned and timed (even counter service), everything for the day on a detailed itinerary with various if/then scenarios built in.  If they are using a spreadsheet, each day is its own full sheet.
> 
> If you now tell one of these people they can no longer plan those FP's 60 days out, they are not happy.  Period.  Yes, they will adjust, doing a great deal more research and having to build more complex contingency plans.  So they will deal with it, but they would MUCH rather have the certainty of those 3 FP's to build around.  And even at the general outline level of planning we do, if we are being honest we would admit we would prefer those 3 FPs as well.
> 
> That is all I am saying.  Not that it has to be a deal breaker.  Just that if you like to plan, anything that takes away part of your ability to plan is a negative.  And the more you plan, the bigger the negative.


I will adjust by having 100 different spreadsheets based upon what LL I can get and what time. And back up spreadsheets for no LLs. Which means more planning and more fun. If I had to pick, would I pick 3 free FPs? Absolutely, I don't think anyone wouldn't. But you nailed down exactly what my plans look like, which won't change, I'll just have more of them for different scenarios. But I enjoy it, so its not like its more work for me.


----------



## diskids2

Just checking in.....did they identify the LL vs G+ attractions yet......


----------



## JakeAZ

nkereina said:


> If a person with Genie+ rides 15 rides in one day while a person without Genie+ rides 10 rides, is that a _severe _disadvantage? Its a matter of opinion I suppose. It also depends on whether those 5 extra rides are worth the cost of Genie+ for your travel party.


It will also depend on the make up of those rides.  I don't value being able to get on Winnie the Pooh the same way I value getting BTM.  That's where the advantage (could) come in.  

Using your example, if the delta was 5 extra rides, then yes, $15pp (at $3 per ride) would be 100% worth it for me.  If the delta was based on time and I could do what we wanted to do, in less time or with more breaks, I would also feel it could be justified.

Time will tell.

But the more people who use it, the less valuable it will be.  That's the catch.


----------



## Heather07438

raidermatt said:


> I understand what she is saying.  But if she is okay with this, she is not really a planner.  Which is perfectly fine, many are not planners.


I'm a planner too and I plan to plan the heck out of my Genie trip lol


----------



## jamescanuck2001

Interesting the reduction in park perks for resort guests.  Knowing of a good number of people that are quite happy to stay at a deluxe resort and not go to parks.  Wonder if resort pricing will adjust to the reduction in perks.  If not, I see no reason not to stay at a Lakeshore Reserve or Hyatt Regency.

Have complimentary PH tix in my MDE, need to figure out how this change affects them.


----------



## Heather07438

luv2cheer92 said:


> For me it allows me to come up with more plans for more possible scenarios, which to me is a planner's dream!! "If I get a LL for this, I can do this, but if I don't, then I'll do this" x100 for each day. Its a different kind of planning, but it absolutely still is planning.
> I just find it funny when a total stranger thinks they know me better than myself haha


What I think we'll prefer about the Genie system is better ability to adjust on the fly.  If we want to spend more time in a land that's fine, or decide now's a good time for a break, or want to switch around park days... much less problems.  

I'll plan how to get on most of the individual paid LL rides by using EE and pmEMH, and which days make the best sense to buy genie+.  If g+ ends up having a cooldown and stackable like MaxPass was, then hooray we're gonna go next level planning how to make it work with our afternoon breaks while still having the flexibility to choose what park & rides we're in the mood for that evening.


----------



## JakeAZ

jamescanuck2001 said:


> Wonder if resort pricing will adjust to the reduction in perks


On the contrary, it will just keep going up.


----------



## jamescanuck2001

JakeAZ said:


> On the contrary, it will just keep going up.



probably, disney needs to recover C-19 losses


----------



## aviva5675

I thought resort at 7am reservations for vq, LL and G+.  Offsite vq at 7, but other choices at park opening. ??? Now Im confused.


----------



## bsmcneil

jamescanuck2001 said:


> probably, disney needs to recover C-19 losses



From the Washington Post in Feb 2021:



> The coronavirus continued to hammer Disney in the final months of 2020, with the company’s revenue dropping 22 percent over the holiday period while *it eked out a much smaller profit than usual*.
> 
> For the entertainment giant’s fiscal 2021 first quarter, which ran from October through December 2020, Disney saw revenue go from $20.9 billion in 2019 to $16.3 billion in the same period in 2020, as coronavirus shutdowns and consumer caution cut attendance at movie theaters and Disney theme parks, the company said Thursday.
> 
> The revenue — which comes heavily from advertising, merchandise, TV and digital subscriptions — is slightly better than the $15.9 billion many analysts had projected. *The company did make money*, but by a much reduced margin: Its operating income plunged from $4 billion in 2019 to just $1.3 billion in 2020, a drop of 67 percent. Once taxes are factored in, the company’s profit stood at just $29 million, after topping $2.1 billion in the same quarter a year earlier.


----------



## cakebaker

luv2cheer92 said:


> I will adjust by having 100 different spreadsheets based upon what LL I can get and what time. And back up spreadsheets for no LLs. Which means more planning and more fun. If I had to pick, would I pick 3 free FPs? Absolutely, I don't think anyone wouldn't. But you nailed down exactly what my plans look like, which won't change, I'll just have more of them for different scenarios. But I enjoy it, so its not like its more work for me.



I always thought I was a planner, but by your standards. we fly by the seat of our pants. lol

With FP+, we made a few scenarios for which parks which days, then adjusted for what we actually got with our 3 at 60 days. Generally, we kept what we started with, but there were times we had to make a few adustments. Then we'd schedule in our day with shows, parade, EMH or After Hours. This last trip had virtually no planning outside of which parks which days because there is nothing else to plan in. We do hop, so we had to figure which park to go to in the afternoons to balance everything out. We don't do indoor dining anymore, so no need for that scheduling either.

With the new system, staying on site at a Deluxe reduces the need to uber plan a lot. What we can't get in during regular hours, we'll ride during EMH's at the parks it's available at. I do think the new system favors those who like to just go with the flow. While I like to plan, I don't like a dozen different plans that will change on the spur of the moment- so if I can't count on a plan, my plan is pretty much not to have one.  That may change as we aren't returning until WDW brings back the things we love like the shows (and not some mini version of them) parades and hopefully a few After Hours and dessert buffets or some version of them. We love those things and actually got tired of doing nothing but going from ride to ride.


----------



## gharter

bookgirl said:


> Don't know if it's been posted yet but a travel agent who does Social Media took the Genie Training Friday.
> 
> Resort guests will be able to start booking at 7am.  Non resort guests will need to be in a park (after park opening) before they can make Genie reservations (and it kind of sounded like Virtual Queues are also 7am for onsite, after Park Opening for offsite).
> 
> That will be a big advantage in the new system.


Do we know if this is correct?
I've read both ways.  That resort can book LL at 7 and everyone else when they get in the park.  And I've read, everyone can book LL at 7 and only resort guests can book the paid LL at 7.


----------



## ThistleMae

luv2cheer92 said:


> I would imagine it would be just like FP+ and have an allotment, so once one time slot is full, it moves to the next time slot. Just like MaxPass was too.


Right, so who knows what you'll be able to get once you use the first one and as the day goes on it could get even worse.


----------



## nkereina

JakeAZ said:


> It will also depend on the make up of those rides.  I don't value being able to get on Winnie the Pooh the same way I value getting BTM.  That's where the advantage (could) come in.
> 
> Using your example, if the delta was 5 extra rides, then yes, $15pp (at $3 per ride) would be 100% worth it for me.  If the delta was based on time and I could do what we wanted to do, in less time or with more breaks, I would also feel it could be justified.
> 
> Time will tell.
> 
> But the more people who use it, the less valuable it will be.  That's the catch.


All true, I don't disagree. I just take issue with saying its a severe disadvantage when we don't know. I think that's a misnomer at this point, and leads the average visitor to believe they can't have a fun vacation or ride the best rides unless they purchase this. That would never be the case as long as standby lines exist. For people like you, me, and everyone else here with experience that dedicates this kind of time to planning a trip - we may see not having it as a disadvantage because we'll know how to maximize it once it goes live. But I think those of us here, Disney's top fan base, represent a small percentage of overall visitors on a given day.


----------



## ThistleMae

gharter said:


> Do we know if this is correct?
> I've read both ways.  That resort can book LL at 7 and everyone else when they get in the park.  And I've read, everyone can book LL at 7 and only resort guests can book the paid LL at 7.


I read that anyone, onsite and offsite, can use Genie + at 7 a.m. for the first ride which includes a list of aprx. 40 rides, and can purchase the Genie + at midnight the day of.  The only perk for onsite was purchasing the ala carte rides at 7a.m. and off site had to wait till park open.


----------



## ThistleMae

blabadie said:


> Fron what I have read, you can have 2 individual headliners (max for the day) and 1 Genie+ "classic attraction" booked at the same time.
> 
> If staying on site, at 7AM you can book those 2 individual super headliner lightming lane  (probably with multiple return window choices) and can also book your first Genie+  (only "next available" return window time).


This is how I understood it as well.


----------



## bookgirl

gharter said:


> Do we know if this is correct?
> I've read both ways.  That resort can book LL at 7 and everyone else when they get in the park.  And I've read, everyone can book LL at 7 and only resort guests can book the paid LL at 7.




Don't know.  I went back but it had already been 24hrs since the IG story so it's gone.  Since TA got trained last Friday I would imagine dates will be announced soon.  Once the dates are public we should get the details.


----------



## Marionnette

Katie Dawn said:


> I have seen several people say they think they will purchase G+ for certain parks, but not for others. Could anyone explain why G+ would/wouldn't be helpful in the different parks?
> 
> I don't remember which parks have fallen into which category, except I know several have said they likely wouldn't purchase G+ at HS.  That is confusing to me since the lines at that park seem to be so much longer than at others. But is the general idea that there are fewer rides there so you wouldn't be able to use it as much?


It's a function of the number of high-volume attractions in each park vs. the number of attractions that didn't really require a FP- at all.

Take for instance AK. There are currently 17 attractions in AK. Two of them will be IA$ attractions, leaving 15 that could potentially be pegged as G+. Of those 15, 10 were FP+ attractions. Of those 10, you have 3 shows where FP+ was not really necessary (FotLK, Winged Encounters and Feathered Friends in Flight), the Animation Experience at Conservation Station, which didn't really need a FP+ in the past and ITTBAB where a FP+ only got you out of the hot, stuffy pre-show area a few moments faster than non FP+ holders. 

That leaves Dinosaur, Kilamanjaro Safari, EE, Kali RR and Triceratops Spin. Five attractions that you might need a G+ for. (Note: some rumors have Na'Vi as a IA$, while others are listing Safari instead).

So, 5 attractions that you might need a line-skipping pass for, in the park with the lowest daily attendance. Which is why many feel you won't need a G+ for this park.


----------



## wdw_dine_junkie

I don't think local(ish) AP holders will be using this.  We stay at the campground, we might only spend a half day at a time in the parks.  It stinks we will never have "Fast Pass+" quick lines again, but I can't justify the cost either.  But I do agree staying on site is less and less benefit.


----------



## cakebaker

I hope all the complaints here are indicative of how the general public feels about staying on site and it not being worth it anymore. I'm not one who's really complaining- I think the EMH's in the evening for Deluxe/DVC are going to be a great perk, especially with Genie+ and IAS. But...the more trouble they have filling their resorts, the more perks they'll add and while they've got me already, I will always take more! Maybe include Genie+ with a resort stay, a few freebies tossed in...more EMH evenings....any of those will do!


----------



## gharter

cakebaker said:


> I hope all the complaints here are indicative of how the general public feels about staying on site and it not being worth it anymore.


The people here are a very small subset that go to WDW and DL.
I suspect our concerns are not indicative of the general public.


----------



## Nick6300

MrBellatrixLestrange said:


> I'm not a fan of NRJ so it would please me tremendously if they pick that one though it might make the Genie+ worthwhile to me if they do so as having 2 of FoP/EE/KS on the plan would at least make me consider it.  If only 1 of those 3 is on the Genie+ plan I'll just utilize the standby lines instead.  Of course I'll want to read about others experiences first, if possible, to see if the new system makes the selection of those exceptionally difficult.


I think many of us prefer Safari over NRJ (and a lot of other rides over NRJ). I still ride NRJ just because I ride just about everything at least once per trip. But I agree, please pick the Pandora counter part for LL as a 2nd to FoP. I'd assume RD is about to become more competitive, but in the past, getting on FoP at the front, allowed everything else to follow NRJ, Safari, EE, Kali, Dino to be low waiting. If FoP and 1 of the other 3 possibles is a LL, I see no sense for us personally to do G+ given how few attractions are left, EE having SR, Dino skippable for us. Kind of like that for us for EP, less attractions with longer lines vs. MK/HS.


----------



## bookgirl

gharter said:


> The people here are a very small subset that go to WDW and DL.
> I suspect our concerns are not indicative of the general public.



I agree.  I've talked to and helped people who either know I do Disney a lot (or they are the friend/family of someone I know).  

Tourist's like them make up the majority of guests and they do not nitpik stuff like the folks on this board LOL  They tend to be a lot more pragmatic and in many ways accepting of the 'restrictions' or 'rules' per say.

That being said.  I know that all this is affecting the way I look at vacationing at Disney.  I'm not mad or happy specifically about any of the changes, but it does factor in to my future plans.


----------



## Nick6300

Poor Gail said:


> We all keep talking about the headliners, but I've been pondering the other rides.  The whole reason FP, then FP+ were put in place was because of three hour lines for Peter Pan.  Dumbo won't be as bad since they've doubled the capacity, but some rides are going right back to the horrible wait times I remember from years ago.  I understand the whole planning vs. spontaneous issue, and hated knowing that there was no way I could get a pass for some rides at short notice.  My family operates on "Let's go to Epcot next Tuesday," not sixty day out planning.  *But if Disney had asked me how I would solve the problem, my answer would not have been, "Make me pay through the nose for only one pass at a time. * *I'm sure that will fix everything*."


But it fixes Disney's perceived revenue growth problems (although parks & experiences revenues increased quite a bit this past qtr.). If the lines continue to get more congested, they can/will increase the price of tickets, AP, G+, LL, and issue more high priced parties.


----------



## MikeandReneePlus5

The way crowds wander and pulsate through a park, what they do and when they eat and where they go, is dynamic, but not optimal.  
There is probably a solution where everyone gets to do everything they want to do in the most efficient way (measured by how long a person has to wait to accomplish what they want to do, and how many of the things they want to do they can achieve).
Seems like Genie+ will be an attempt to achieve greater, more efficient outcomes, for more and more guests
It follows then that park experiences will be better, not worse, once it is rolled out
And it also follows that there is a price to pay for that level of efficiency - and and even higher price for greater efficiency
Guests can decide if it is worth it, and if they will pay


----------



## cakebaker

gharter said:


> The people here are a very small subset that go to WDW and DL.
> I suspect our concerns are not indicative of the general public.



I suspect this is very true, but I can always hope!


----------



## ChipNdale8887

cakebaker said:


> I hope all the complaints here are indicative of how the general public feels about staying on site and it not being worth it anymore. I'm not one who's really complaining- I think the EMH's in the evening for Deluxe/DVC are going to be a great perk, especially with Genie+ and IAS. But...the more trouble they have filling their resorts, the more perks they'll add and while they've got me already, I will always take more! Maybe include Genie+ with a resort stay, a few freebies tossed in...more EMH evenings....any of those will do!


I'm wondering how much of the General Public will even use Genie+ and Lightning Lane. It still boggled my mind when fastpass was around how many people waited in the standby lines for rides that you could easily get fast passes for but instead of using it and understanding it they just waited in a 30-50 minute line.


----------



## MikeandReneePlus5

Nick6300 said:


> But it fixes Disney's perceived revenue growth problems (although parks & experiences revenues increased quite a bit this past qtr.). If the lines continue to get more congested, they can/will increase the price of tickets, AP, G+, LL, and issue more high priced parties.


Agree with this.

Also - IMO Disney had by and large fixed the issue of unbearably long waits with the original FP system.  FP+ was a step back IMO.  I liked it well enough and used it...but SB lines really went up in my experience.

Seems Genie+ is going back to the original day-of FP system - but now you pay.  Which sucks, but it is what it is.  I will pay (probably).


----------



## ChipNdale8887

MikeandReneePlus5 said:


> Seems like Genie+ will be an attempt to achieve greater, more efficient outcomes, for more and more guests



I think its main purpose even just the Genie App is $$$. You could always check wait times in the MDE app. I don't think Genie+ and Lightning Lane will be any different. It's only about $$$.


----------



## cakebaker

ChipNdale8887 said:


> I'm wondering how much of the General Public will even use Genie+ and Lightning Lane. It still boggled my mind when fastpass was around how many people waited in the standby lines for rides that you could easily get fast passes for but instead of using it and understanding it they just waited in a 30-50 minute line.



It always amazed me too and that you'd get dirty looks as though you were somehow line cutting- that they not only chose not to use it, but didn't even realize how it worked of if it even existed. I expect Genie will be much the same. I guess for some people, it just takes too much effort to figure it out and standing in line isn't anything they mind doing.


----------



## ChipNdale8887

MikeandReneePlus5 said:


> Agree with this.
> 
> Also - IMO Disney had by and large fixed the issue of unbearably long waits with the original FP system.  FP+ was a step back IMO.  I liked it well enough and used it...but SB lines really went up in my experience.
> 
> Seems Genie+ is going back to the original day-of FP system - but now you pay.  Which sucks, but it is what it is.  I will pay (probably).


I honestly think the problem with wait times is with the capacity, there just isn't enough to do. Year over year disney rethemes old rides and doesn't add any more capacity or things to do. They tear down old rides and build new ones over top of them. The only solution to long wait times is park expansion or raising prices. You can see which path they have chosen. Universal has chosen rapid growth and has built more and more hotels and a new water park and is planning a new whole park. Long term growth and planning. Disney on the other hand has redone existing rides and focused on the 50th anniversary, what happens after that will be interesting.


----------



## MikeandReneePlus5

ChipNdale8887 said:


> I honestly think the problem with wait times is will the capacity there just isn't enough to do. Year over year disney rethemes old rides and doesn't add any more capacity or things to do. They tear down old rides and build new ones over top of them. The only solution to long wait times is park expansion or raising prices. You can see which path they have chosen. Universal has chosen rapid growth and has build more and more hotels and a new water park and is planning a new whole park. Long term growth and planning. Disney on the other hand has redone existing rides and focused on the 50th anniversary, what happens after that will be interesting.


??

But this isn't even remotely true.  Fantasyland, Pandora, Toy Story Land, Galaxy's Edge are all new lands.  There are new restaurants and hotels as well.


----------



## Nick6300

squirk said:


> I agree with you - I'd never go in August.  But I'm pretty sure the numbers are there.
> 
> To your larger point, though, I think Disney has been hoisted by their own petard here.  We've been trained for 20 years that there's a better way to get on rides than standing in a long line for an hour or more.  And we've come to expect this better way to be included in the cost of our ticket.
> 
> So with people getting angry or upset, Disney really has no one to blame but themselves. They cultivated this mindset for a long time.



Granted storms and the eve of the 50th is attributing some (in addition to the kids returning to school), the recent severe drop off in crowds would motivate me to go. Boarding Groups avail. later in the day on a Fri. I go at this time every year because many people don't want to melt in the sun/drown in the rain.


----------



## ChipNdale8887

MikeandReneePlus5 said:


> ??
> 
> But this isn't even remotely true.  Fantasyland, Pandora, Toy Story Land, Galaxy's Edge are all new lands.  There are new restaurants and hotels as well.





MikeandReneePlus5 said:


> ??
> 
> But this isn't even remotely true.  Fantasyland, Pandora, Toy Story Land, Galaxy's Edge are all new lands.  There are new restaurants and hotels as well.


In most of these areas weren't rides and attractions torn down to build these lands?


----------



## mi*vida*loca

Wh


ChipNdale8887 said:


> I'm wondering how much of the General Public will even use Genie+ and Lightning Lane. It still boggled my mind when fastpass was around how many people waited in the standby lines for rides that you could easily get fast passes for but instead of using it and understanding it they just waited in a 30-50 minute line.



Same. I can see a lot of people not using it. I’m 50/50 here.

People with small children who can’t or won’t do headliners or bigger rides. Why pay for G+? Especially when you can just do an IAS if mom and dad really want to do FOP or space.

Those with long trips. I can see them using it for 2-3 days and winging the rest.

This could all go either way.

I know it’s not on the same level but I’m curious on the number of people who buy these add ons at other parks like universal, six flags, etc.


----------



## Cabius

MikeandReneePlus5 said:


> ??
> 
> But this isn't even remotely true.  Fantasyland, Pandora, Toy Story Land, Galaxy's Edge are all new lands.  There are new restaurants and hotels as well.


WDW has continued to add capacity, but most of the lands you've named replaced lands or attractions that were there before, so not a pure net add in capacity.

But more broadly: Disney has invested in capacity, which generates more demand, which generates longer lines...


----------



## ChipNdale8887

Nick6300 said:


> Granted storms and the eve of the 50th is attributing some (in addition to the kids returning to school), the recent severe drop off in crowds would motivate me to go. Boarding Groups avail. later in the day on a Fri. I go at this time every year because many people don't want to melt in the sun/drown in the rain.


We were there in July right during Elsa and I'll tell you. Crowds were there despite the storms.


----------



## MikeandReneePlus5

Cabius said:


> WDW has continued to add capacity, but most of the lands you've named replaced lands or attractions that were there before, so not a pure net add in capacity.
> 
> But more broadly: Disney has invested in capacity, which generates more demand, which generates longer lines...



Again - this just isn't true.  Everything in 3 of those lands was a complete plus did not replace anything.  And the 4th - new Fantasyland - was almost all plus except for Barnstromer and Dumbo (which doubled as you know).

I am not a Disney apologist - I just don't understand the comments - what am I missing?


----------



## Nick6300

mouserrificmom said:


> The more I reflect on the pricing structure, the more I realize how much better this would have been received IF the Genie+ was complimentary for resort guests. I believe I have read somewhere that only 20% or so of visitors each day are staying on property - and I suspect that number has possibly dropped and certainly will when Disney's Magical Express ends.....there would be plenty of off property guests willing to pay because the cost of their vacation was so much lower because they were staying off site, and they might encourage MORE people to stay on site with this benefit.  Some of the most recent decisions just have me scratching my head.



I'd be surprised that Disney would make it publicly known a specific on site figure, especially if it were that low. I listen to just about every earnings call, and I'm just picturing the response to a question like that. Without knowing, 20% seems too low, sounds more like DL w/ all of their local visitors. 

But yes, I think we all would welcome free G+ with onsite, or any added meaningful benefit for staying onsite. Even if the cost is hidden in raised rack prices, you wouldn't feel as nickle & dimed, and have it prepaid / budgeted better. But as others have stated, maybe included G+ is coming for Deluxe.


----------



## soniam

StarrySkye21 said:


> The 7 am thing is irking me because I will be on my flight on the way to WDW and our first park (Epcot) and thus missing the virtual queue line for Remy and early genie+ selections.


Have you looked to see if you could change your park reservations. I haven't looked lately, but I have heard that they are much more open than before. You could look at the availability calendar before changing it.


----------



## Nick6300

magickingdomprincess said:


> I have a trip coming up in mid Oct.  I really wish they would announce the start date for this so I know what to expect.  I would think they want it in place before 10/1 for the 50th, and with some additional time to work the bugs out beforehand.  I also really would like to know the price range of IAT.
> 
> We used Maxpass at DL a few years ago and really enjoyed it so I'm hopeful this will work similarly and be a fun way to tour.  I obviously don't like that now I will be paying more for something we got for free before, but I guess I'm kind if accepting it.  What bothers me the most though is not having all rides included and not knowing what the price of those rides will be.



I, too would hope that they would test this out prior to Oct. 1. I mean, look at Rat. on the 1st day breaking down, after how many times they must have tested it prior. Look at RotR opening. There's going to be more people on their phones at 7am, and Disney being a communications/tech company can't even get their wifi to work well consistently.


----------



## bookgirl

MikeandReneePlus5 said:


> Wow.  I guess I always thought the day would come when Disney charged for FP...but now that it is here I am feeling surprised.
> 
> The biggest question to me is what will this do to stand by queues?  Because I believe FP+ significantly increased SB waits from the old paper FP days.  And it seems that when there was no FP system at all for the past year SB waits were pretty reasonable across the board.  Maybe I am wrong about that I wasn't following too closely.



I think the SB times for the past year were impacted more by low maximum capacity then no FP.


----------



## Cabius

MikeandReneePlus5 said:


> Again - this just isn't true.  Everything in 3 of those lands was a complete plus did not replace anything.  And the 4th - new Fantasyland - was almost all plus except for Barnstromer and Dumbo (which doubled as you know).
> 
> I am not a Disney apologist - I just don't understand the comments - what am I missing?


Toy Story Land and Galaxy's Edge replaced the Backlot Tour / most of Streets of America. It's still a big net increase in ride capacity.

Pandora replaced Camp Minnie/Mickey but everything meaningful in Camp Minnie/Mickey was moved elsewhere in the land, so that's pretty close to a 100% net add in capacity.

I agree that WDW is adding capacity in these places. My point was that it wasn't a 100% net increase, but it's still a big investment. It's not like in MMRR or Epcot where they are only replacing existing rides.


----------



## Nick6300

Grumpy by Birth said:


> I was involved in the discussions about "rumored" paid FPs long before the G+ announcement, so it wasn't really a surprise at all to me for the most part.  But, as I kind of alluded to in my previous post, the gut punch for me was the fact that the "best" rides are ala carte additional charges and not included in G+.
> 
> I would have predicted a higher price tag for G+ but with the expectation that it would be all-inclusive.  In fact, a lot of the discussion about price and whether or not it provides value, depends on how many people are using it.  Everyone wants it to be priced high enough that the "masses" won't spend the extra for it, but low enough that you are willing to (thus maximizing the value to those who do purchase it).  It will be interesting to see if the $15 pp per day price point is high enough to deter the "masses."  Based on many posts here and around other social media sites, the outrage would indicate that it will.  But how many of those outraged folks will begrudgingly fork over the $15 to avoid what they predict will be even longer SB lines because others have paid to skip them?
> 
> This is where the IAS model for those high demand rides may, in fact, balance supply/demand.  The rumored prices are making me think long and hard about whether I'm willing to pay that much for one ride (strongly leaning towards NOT).  How many people will fork over another $50 or $100 or more for their family to skip the line for ONE RIDE????  I want that number to be low, but in order to keep it low enough the price has to be high enough, meaning I may be included in the population of those not willing to pay it.
> 
> In terms of the comment above about not knowing what the price will be... we may never know that until "in the moment" because of the rumored "surge pricing" model.  If they implement that, we might eventually know at least a range of possible prices, but there wouldn't be a set price since it would fluctuate based on the SB wait/desperation level of the guests.
> 
> How would you feel if you spend $25 pp to skip the line for FOP and then later in the day, the price drops to $10 pp because SB is now shorter????
> 
> The gambling analogy is an apt one... do I spend that much to skip the line now?  Wait until later to see if the price drops or if the SB wait time gets low enough that I don't mind waiting?  What if I spend this much and then the line is short later?  UGH!


Being such a frugal person, I'm sort of glad that there's a 2/day paid LL limit. Keeps it more simple for me on the decision. And I don't know that I'd utilize this much, so I prefer the LLs to be less congested for regular G+.


----------



## TangledHairDon'tCare

Do we know for sure that each park will have 2 paid LL attractions, or are we assuming that because you may purchase 2 each day?


----------



## Nick6300

ChipNdale8887 said:


> We were there in July right during Elsa and I'll tell you. Crowds were there despite the storms.


I've been keeping a daily on wait times, and sympathize. We go other times of the year too, although it's been a while for a July trip... but like to wait until the kids are recently back to school with less likelihood of being pulled out for vacation. And it's cheaper in early Fall vs. summer.


----------



## TangledHairDon'tCare

Nick6300 said:


> Being such a frugal person, I'm sort of glad that there's a 2/day paid LL limit. Keeps it more simple for me on the decision. And I don't know that I'd utilize this much, so I prefer the LLs to be less congested for regular G+.


But there isn’t any crossover between the paid LLs and genie+ right?  So, one wouldn’t effect the other.


----------



## elgerber

TangledHairDon'tCare said:


> Do we know for sure that each park will have 2 paid LL attractions, or are we assuming that because you may purchase 2 each day?


hmmm, that's a good question.  I hope there are only 2.


----------



## meremac

TangledHairDon'tCare said:


> But there isn’t any crossover between the paid LLs and genie+ right?  So, one wouldn’t effect the other.



Correct. They are separate and won't impact one another. I actually just finished a Genie training session. Genie+ is $15/person per day and includes unlimited Lightning Lane reservations for select attractions, but these reservations can only be made one at at time (onsite Resort Guests can make their first Genie+ reservation starting at 7am). A few super headliner attractions at each park will not be included in Genie+. Guests can access those by 1) Getting in the standby line (or joining a Virtual Queue for the few attractions that won't have standby, like RoTR and Rat); OR 2) Purchasing separate Lightning Lane access. For these super headliner attractions, there will be a limit of 2 Lightning Lane purchases per guest per day. Again, onsite Resort Guest can make their first purchase at 7am.


----------



## squirk

Nick6300 said:


> I go at this time every year because many people don't want to melt in the sun/drown in the rain.



People are weird that way.


----------



## dominiondad

meremac said:


> Correct. They are separate and won't impact one another. I actually just finished a Genie training session. Genie+ is $15/person per day and includes unlimited Lightning Lane reservations for select attractions, but these reservations can only be made one at at time (onsite Resort Guests can make their first Genie+ reservation starting at 7am). A few super headliner attractions at each park will not be included in Genie+. Guests can access those by 1) Getting in the standby line (or joining a Virtual Queue for the few attractions that won't have standby, like RoTR and Rat); OR 2) Purchasing separate Lightning Lane access. For these super headliner attractions, there will be a limit of 2 Lightning Lane purchases per guest per day. Again, onsite Resort Guest can make their first purchase at 7am.


When would offsite guests be able to start making reservations?  Somebody mentioned they would have to enter the park first, but that doesn't make much sense to me. Disney already knows you are going to be in the park via the park reservation system.  Why would they care if at 9:01 am I make G+ reservations for a 11:00 ride, then show up at the park at 10:00?


----------



## meremac

dominiondad said:


> When would offsite guests be able to start making reservations?  Somebody mentioned they would have to enter the park first, but that doesn't make much sense to me. Disney already knows you are going to be in the park via the park reservation system.  Why would they care if at 9:01 am I make G+ reservations for a 11:00 ride, then show up at the park at 10:00?



According to the training session, offsite guests will not be able to make Genie+ or separate Lightning Lane reservations until they physically enter the park. Hypothetically then, an on-site guest could make their first MK Genie+ reservation at 7am, take advantage of early entry and get either SM or 7DMT then, get in line for the other, be ready to scan into their first Genie+ reservation (and make another) in the first hour of park opening...all before an offsite guest even scans into their first Genie+ reservation. That would be a HUGE advantage for on-site guests.


----------



## tinkerhon

meremac said:


> Correct. They are separate and won't impact one another. I actually just finished a Genie training session. Genie+ is $15/person per day and includes unlimited Lightning Lane reservations for select attractions, but these reservations can only be made one at at time (onsite Resort Guests can make their first Genie+ reservation starting at 7am). A few super headliner attractions at each park will not be included in Genie+. Guests can access those by 1) Getting in the standby line (or joining a Virtual Queue for the few attractions that won't have standby, like RoTR and Rat); OR 2) Purchasing separate Lightning Lane access. For these super headliner attractions, there will be a limit of 2 Lightning Lane purchases per guest per day. Again, onsite Resort Guest can make their first purchase at 7am.



I can see---  our next trip (in Dec) , we are going to be spending a lot of time outside of the parks--- (or waiting on standby) 
We went in July and the best part of our trip was our time outside of the parks---  
I dont know, waking up at 7AM on vacation AND starting off the day by spending money BEFORE even getting to the parks... I dont know.... just doesn't sound that great. And as much as there are rides that we absolutely love, we have been on 99.9 % of them a ton of times ( not including Remy, obviously... and have gone on RoTR twice) --   dont feel the need to pay to ride them again. YMMV


----------



## menotyou21

Cabius said:


> Toy Story Land and Galaxy's Edge replaced the Backlot Tour / most of Streets of America. It's still a big net increase in ride capacity.
> 
> Pandora replaced Camp Minnie/Mickey but everything meaningful in Camp Minnie/Mickey was moved elsewhere in the land, so that's pretty close to a 100% net add in capacity.
> 
> I agree that WDW is adding capacity in these places. My point was that it wasn't a 100% net increase, but it's still a big investment. It's not like in MMRR or Epcot where they are only replacing existing rides.


both points are valid.....but how can we forget Lights, Motors, Action! ......I mean come on....who can forget when they introduced Lightning McQueen!


----------



## Marionnette

dominiondad said:


> When would offsite guests be able to start making reservations?  Somebody mentioned they would have to enter the park first, but that doesn't make much sense to me. Disney already knows you are going to be in the park via the park reservation system.  *Why would they care if at 9:01 am I make G+ reservations for a 11:00 ride, then show up at the park at 10:00?*


Because they have to throw some kind of bone to onsite guests so that they feel that the inflated resort costs have value. Can you imagine the advertising?

"Plus as a guest of a Walt Disney World Resort*, you have the ability to purchase AND book your Genie+ ride reservation BEFORE entering the park!"

Doesn't that sound like something that will make people forget about the loss of DME and EMH?


----------



## deltadisney

meremac said:


> According to the training session, offsite guests will not be able to make Genie+ or separate Lightning Lane reservations until they physically enter the park. Hypothetically then, an on-site guest could make their first MK Genie+ reservation at 7am, take advantage of early entry and get either SM or 7DMT then, get in line for the other, be ready to scan into their first Genie+ reservation (and make another) in the first hour of park opening...all before an offsite guest even scans into their first Genie+ reservation. That would be a HUGE advantage for on-site guests.


Was there a recent change on the offsite guests not being able to book Genie+ until park entry?  I may have confused myself trying to keep up, but I originally thought it was being reported that all guests (resort and non-resort) could book their first Genie+ at 7:00am, and that the resort guests only had the advantage of booking the LL$ at 7:00 and non resort guests had to wait until park entry?


----------



## disneydreamer1980

Is the genie plus an “all or nothing” thing, like park hoppers? Do you have to purchase it for each day if your trip? We have 10 park days and I’m thinking of only getting it for a few of those days (we’re a family of 7 and buying it for each day would add a whopping $1050!). We already spend SO much money on these trips


----------



## meremac

deltadisney said:


> Was there a recent change on the offsite guests not being able to book Genie+ until park entry?  I may have confused myself trying to keep up, but I originally thought it was being reported that all guests (resort and non-resort) could book their first Genie+ at 7:00am, and that the resort guests only had the advantage of booking the LL$ at 7:00 and non resort guests had to wait until park entry?


 
I don't know if there was a change or not. All I know is that it was very clear on the slide decks in the training today that only on-site guests can make their first Genie+ AND LL$ reservations at 7am.


----------



## meremac

disneydreamer1980 said:


> Is the genie plus an “all or nothing” thing, like park hoppers? Do you have to purchase it for each day if your trip? We have 10 park days and I’m thinking of only getting it for a few of those days (we’re a family of 7 and buying it for each day would add a whopping $1050!). We already spend SO much money on these trips



If you have an on-site package, Genie+ is all-or-nothing for length of stay.


----------



## Turksmom

meremac said:


> If you have an on-site package, Genie+ is all-or-nothing for length of stay.


Only if purchased as part of the package, correct?


----------



## deltadisney

meremac said:


> I don't know if there was a change or not. All I know is that it was very clear on the slide decks in the training today that only on-site guests can make their first Genie+ AND LL$ reservations at 7am.


Thanks for sharing, and I hope that is the case.


----------



## disneydreamer1980

I think so many people staying on site won’t take advantage of the 7am thing anyway because they either won’t know about it or don’t be awake. I miss not making my ADRs at the 180 mark snd I’ll miss the 60 day FP too. They’re like milestones, they gave me something to be excited  about lol


----------



## meremac

Turksmom said:


> Only if purchased as part of the package, correct?



Um...I _think_ so. TBH, that part wasn't entirely clear.


----------



## luv2cheer92

disneydreamer1980 said:


> Is the genie plus an “all or nothing” thing, like park hoppers? Do you have to purchase it for each day if your trip? We have 10 park days and I’m thinking of only getting it for a few of those days (we’re a family of 7 and buying it for each day would add a whopping $1050!). We already spend SO much money on these trips


You can either add it on to your package, then it is all or nothing. OR you can add it on each day of your trip starting at midnight each day, then you can pick and choose days and people.


----------



## Cabius

Turksmom said:


> Only if purchased as part of the package, correct?


My understanding is that it can be purchased as part of a package for length-of-stay, but that it can also be purchased for a single day at a time. 

I could imagine using G+ for only 1-2 days out of a 6-day trip, personally. Indeed, the longer the trip, the less important G+ is because I can hit a single park 2-3 times and not feel like I MUST do it all in one day.


----------



## StarrySkye21

soniam said:


> Have you looked to see if you could change your park reservations. I haven't looked lately, but I have heard that they are much more open than before. You could look at the availability calendar before changing it.


Yes I have already shuffled them around quite a bit. We planned on Epcot the day we fly in since it opens later. Depending on how in demand virtual queues end up with Remy, I may swap it around.  If it’s easy to get a 1pm boarding group though I’ll keep it.


----------



## Nick6300

TangledHairDon'tCare said:


> But there isn’t any crossover between the paid LLs and genie+ right?  So, one wouldn’t effect the other.


Are the paid LLs and genie+ using separate lines? Or do you mean no cross over as in you can only book 1 at a time, either G+ or paid add on. 

I was just thinking that less paid LLs (since you can only book 2 per day) may mean less congested expedited lines for G+ users, assuming they used the same former FP lines.


----------



## Robbie Cottam

menotyou21 said:


> No doubt Disney must capitalize on their immense popularity. They constantly have crowds and charge a premium already. They have to charge for skipping the lines IMO.....however, their rollout seems a bit clunky.  In addition, it seems all the other parks generally have 1 level of "skip the line".  WDW will essentially have 3, which makes it a bit complicated even for the savvy vacationer.
> 
> On another note....to this day I HATE that they charge resort guests to park. But it's the market....I just had to pay $22/day to park at a resort in Dallas area....seriously....Dallas...painful...  LOL


They do not charge DVC members


----------



## Turksmom

Nick6300 said:


> Are the paid LLs and genie+ using separate lines? Or do you mean no cross over as in you can only book 1 at a time, either G+ or paid add on.
> 
> I was just thinking that less paid LLs (since you can only book 2 per day) may mean less congested expedited lines for G+ users, assuming they used the same former FP lines.


They aren't available for the same rides


----------



## Nick6300

Turksmom said:


> They aren't available for the same rides





Turksmom said:


> They aren't available for the same rides


Ah, thank you.


----------



## Robbie Cottam

squirk said:


> Yes, I understand how a for-profit corporation works.  My point was not that Disney owes us a free FP system. Rather, my point was that they cultivated this “free FP included with the price of your ticket!” mindset for 20 years, so the backlash is hardly a surprise.
> 
> And I agree that Disney has had tons of people examining and studying the feasibility of Genie before they made a commitment.  That said:
> 
> 1.) I know a lot of MBAs; some of them are not _that_ smart; and that degree doesn’t make them any less prone to error, confirmation bias and overconfidence than anybody else;
> 
> 2.) Even the best marketing minds can only do so much if they are getting poor directives from upper management; and
> 
> 3.) I think we all have seen, either first-hand or in the news, a lot of big companies, similarly employing a lot of “smart” people with a lot of letters after their name, that still screwed things up royally.
> 
> In short, Disney’s not infallible.  I’m not saying they haven’t crossed “t”s and dotted “i”s with Genie+/LL, but they still could be mis-calibrating our appetite for it.
> 
> And of course, if they are wrong, they’ll never admit that.  They’ll just create new “magical offers” of some sort (e.g., free LL passes for Deluxe resort guests) that makes it look like they’re doing us a munificent favor vs. outright cutting prices on anything.


Disney owes you a free fast pass system? I’m confused I don’t see that in the terms and conditions of my annual pass please explain.


----------



## TangledHairDon'tCare

Nick6300 said:


> Are the paid LLs and genie+ using separate lines? Or do you mean no cross over as in you can only book 1 at a time, either G+ or paid add on.
> 
> I was just thinking that less paid LLs (since you can only book 2 per day) may mean less congested expedited lines for G+ users, assuming they used the same former FP lines.


The rides that extra are not included in Genie+


----------



## CBMom01

Nick6300 said:


> Are the paid LLs and genie+ using separate lines? Or do you mean no cross over as in you can only book 1 at a time, either G+ or paid add on.
> 
> I was just thinking that less paid LLs (since you can only book 2 per day) may mean less congested expedited lines for G+ users, assuming they used the same former FP lines.


The way i read it the only option for the Tier 1 rides will be individual paid LL or standby


----------



## cygnusx1jg

This is strictly my opinion. When we had FastPass, I understood that they couldn't let only FastPass people go immediately into the queue without letting some standby go periodically. It was a trade off since I had FP for this and you had FP for that, so all was good.

However, if I'm paying for Genie+, shouldn't I expect to get into the attraction before people in the standby line? And won't that delay the standby line incredibly, assuming enough people use Genie+?


----------



## TangledHairDon'tCare

cygnusx1jg said:


> This is strictly my opinion. When we had FastPass, I understood that they couldn't let only FastPass people go immediately into the queue without letting some standby go periodically. It was a trade off since I had FP for this and you had FP for that, so all was good.
> 
> However, if I'm paying for Genie+, shouldn't I expect to get into the attraction before people in the standby line? And won't that delay the standby line incredibly, assuming enough people use Genie+?


I’m sure they’ll have a ratio of LL and standby that they use, just like they did before.  You’ll still be getting on the ride before almost all of the standby riders.


----------



## g-dad66

deltadisney said:


> Was there a recent change on the offsite guests not being able to book Genie+ until park entry?  I may have confused myself trying to keep up, but I originally thought it was being reported that all guests (resort and non-resort) could book their first Genie+ at 7:00am, and that the resort guests only had the advantage of booking the LL$ at 7:00 and non resort guests had to wait until park entry?



Yes, I believe you are correct.  In fact, some popular sites still say that it's only the LL$ and not Genie+ where onsite has the 7:00 advantage.

If the training is now saying that only onsite can start Genie+ at 7:00, that is a huge additional advantage for onsite (in addition to half-hour early entry) in my opinion.


----------



## StarrySkye21

If you have a park reservation one day but don’t check into an on-property hotel later that night, do you get the 7 am LL advantage and extra 30 minutes in the morning?

We fly into Orlando extra early on a Monday and plan to hang out at Epcot all day and then check in to the hotel after nighttime show.  Just wasn’t sure if the bonus 30 minutes and 7 am LL reservations would apply to that days visit.


----------



## TangledHairDon'tCare

StarrySkye21 said:


> If you have a park reservation one day but don’t check into an on-property hotel later that night, do you get the 7 am perk and extra 30 minutes in the morning?
> 
> We fly into Orlando extra early on a Monday and plan to hang out at Epcot all day and then check in to the hotel after nighttime show.  Just wasn’t sure if the bonus 30 minutes and 7 am LL reservations would apply to that days visit.


Unless they make a major change, all of your on site privileges begin at 6am on check in day and extend through midnight on check out day.  I would imagine that would include your genie+ and IAS selections.


----------



## TangledHairDon'tCare

TangledHairDon'tCare said:


> Unless they make a major change, all of your on site privileges begin at 6am on check in day and extend through midnight on check out day.  I would imagine that would include your genie+ and IAS selections.


Just wanted to add, make sure to do online check in!


----------



## bsmcneil

Robbie Cottam said:


> Disney owes you a free fast pass system? I’m confused I don’t see that in the terms and conditions of my annual pass please explain.


The person wrote, "My point was *not* that Disney owes us a free FP system." The word not seems to be pretty important there, given your "confusion".


----------



## squirk

Robbie Cottam said:


> Disney owes you a free fast pass system? I’m confused I don’t see that in the terms and conditions of my annual pass please explain.



Please re-read my post.

You’re trying too hard with your attempt at sardonic wit.


----------



## cakebaker

meremac said:


> If you have an on-site package, Genie+ is all-or-nothing for length of stay.



I actually like this. We'd buy every day of our trip and having to do it each day would be a pain.


----------



## cakebaker

meremac said:


> I actually just finished a Genie training session. Genie+ is $15/person per day and includes unlimited Lightning Lane reservations for select attractions, but these reservations can only be made one at at time



Did we ever get clarification on whether or not you could pick up another LL reservation after a certain amount of time? For example, if I get one at 9am for a 2 pm time, can I get another one after 2 hrs, at 11?


----------



## ThistleMae

fairyprincess88 said:


> Yes if you purchase Express Pass on a busy day in a prime week it costs a lot.  However you could also pay that fee(sometimes less) and get a night in one of their deluxe resorts and get unlimited express pass for your entire party for both your check in day and check out day.  Plus, unlike Disney their deluxe resorts are truly deluxe and cost less and you're a short walk or boat ride away from the parks.  You don't have to be on a schedule, you can ride all but 2 rides as many times as you want to or can with express and there is no stress of getting up early and scrambling for a reservation and you can park hop back and forth if you want.  As for the 2 non-express rides, on busy days Hagrids runs a VQ(which even allows you to push back your return time if something happens and you might not make it) and Velocicoaster runs like a beast and churns through people pretty quickly.   Plus they are so amazing even waiting for an hour for them is worth it and with the rest of the rides having express that time in line isn't going cause you to loose out on other attractions.
> 
> Universal Express is expensive compared to the Genie+ but it doesn't work like Genie+ at all.  There is no scheduling, there is no other up charges and you are not limited in anyway other than with the 2 rides not on it.  And like I said, you can get it for the whole family for two days with just a one night resort stay if you want.


I get what you're saying but...Universal is not Disney!  I guess if you like the more intensive rides, but I feel Universal is more of an amusement part compared to Disney being a theme park.  I can't do more than one day at Universal unless I'm doing HHN, which is totally awesome.  But that's just me.


----------



## MikeandReneePlus5

cakebaker said:


> Did we ever get clarification on whether or not you could pick up another LL reservation after a certain amount of time? For example, if I get one at 9am for a 2 pm time, can I get another one after 2 hrs, at 11?



Isn't that the way the old paper FP system worked?  Hard to remember!  I do recall stacking FPs.  Now that I think about it it was because they didn't enforce the return windows...so you could pull on for say 10am and then at 10am pull another one etc until you had several for use in the afternoon whenever you wanted.


----------



## ThistleMae

katyringo said:


> Ya know.. I am not going to go with the crowd here..
> I’m excited for this. I think that given a chance this could really be something good.
> Yes it’s an up charge and the “I’m tired of paying more for less” crowd are going to struggle..
> 
> but I think this will overall make a more enjoyable expirence in the parks and just like everything else we will learn to navigate and strategize it.


I hope so!


----------



## mi*vida*loca

meremac said:


> According to the training session, offsite guests will not be able to make Genie+ or separate Lightning Lane reservations until they physically enter the park. Hypothetically then, an on-site guest could make their first MK Genie+ reservation at 7am, take advantage of early entry and get either SM or 7DMT then, get in line for the other, be ready to scan into their first Genie+ reservation (and make another) in the first hour of park opening...all before an offsite guest even scans into their first Genie+ reservation. That would be a HUGE advantage for on-site guests.



And with all 4 parks having early entry it won’t be as mobbed.

My trip isn’t until late next year and I’m going to be reading strategies and trip reports. I know the experts will have it down to a science by then.

Im still not happy about paying for this but I think it will work out.


----------



## cakebaker

MikeandReneePlus5 said:


> Isn't that the way the old paper FP system worked?  Hard to remember!  I do recall stacking FPs.  Now that I think about it it was because they didn't enforce the return windows...so you could pull on for say 10am and then at 10am pull another one etc until you had several for use in the afternoon whenever you wanted.



Stacking FP was because they weren't enforcing the return times, but they did have a policy of 2 hrs or expiration for paper FP. I hope they have it with Genie+ as well.


----------



## MMSM

meremac said:


> Correct. They are separate and won't impact one another. I actually just finished a Genie training session. Genie+ is $15/person per day and includes unlimited Lightning Lane reservations for select attractions, but these reservations can only be made one at at time (onsite Resort Guests can make their first Genie+ reservation starting at 7am). A few super headliner attractions at each park will not be included in Genie+. Guests can access those by 1) Getting in the standby line (or joining a Virtual Queue for the few attractions that won't have standby, like RoTR and Rat); OR 2) Purchasing separate Lightning Lane access. For these super headliner attractions, there will be a limit of 2 Lightning Lane purchases per guest per day. Again, onsite Resort Guest can make their first purchase at 7am.


This is helpful.  If I’m onsite and want to pay the LL for attractions do I make both at the same time or is that one at a time too?


----------



## TitusPullo

cakebaker said:


> Stacking FP was because they weren't enforcing the return times, but they did have a policy of 2 hrs or expiration for paper FP. I hope they have it with Genie+ as well.


When people are talking about stacking FP with regards to Genie + they are comparing it to the Disneyland maxpass system.  Heres an example using the 90 minutes later being allowed to pull another :

10am get Radiator Springs FP with a return time of 6pm. 
11:30am get Mission Breakout ride with a return time of 6:15pm.
1pm get Indiana Jones fastness with a return time of 7:30pm.
230pm get Space with a return time of 8:00pm.
4pm get Big thunder with a return time of 8:25pm.

The question people currently have is if I pull a MFSR at 11am and it has a return time of 3:30pm do I have to wait until that is used or can I "stack" them by making another Genie + selection after a certain amount of time has elapsed.


----------



## Cabius

TitusPullo said:


> The question people currently have is if I pull a MFSR at 11am and it has a return time of 3:30pm do I have to wait until that is used or can I "stack" them by making another Genie + selection after a certain amount of time has elapsed.


Everything I've read from Disney suggests you would have to wait until 3:30 PM, whereas rumors of a 90-minute waiting period seem to be based on "that's how it worked at Disneyland" despite contradicting the plain text of Disney's announcement. I wouldn't count on it. 

They seem to be trying to improve day-of availability and reduce the advantages to savvy guests vs newbie visitors (goals I agree with, despite it being against my own interests), and making folks wait until they've used their last pass does that best.


----------



## cakebaker

TitusPullo said:


> When people are talking about stacking FP with regards to Genie + they are comparing it to the Disneyland maxpass system.  Heres an example using the 90 minutes later being allowed to pull another :
> 
> 10am get Radiator Springs FP with a return time of 6pm.
> 11:30am get Mission Breakout ride with a return time of 6:15pm.
> 1pm get Indiana Jones fastness with a return time of 7:30pm.
> 230pm get Space with a return time of 8:00pm.
> 4pm get Big thunder with a return time of 8:25pm.
> 
> The question people currently have is if I pull a MFSR at 11am and it has a return time of 3:30pm do I have to wait until that is used or can I "stack" them by making another Genie + selection after a certain amount of time has elapsed.



Yes, we've done that many times at DLR, it's certainly not taking advantage, just knowing how the system works. The person I was responding to was talking about paper FP an stacking- which wasn't really stacking at all- just hoarding. It was based on being able to ignore the return times and just grabbing FP's as fast as you could.

I have the same question and honestly, I'd be very surprised if it doesn't work just like maxpass in that regard. The most popular rides will quickly have later return times and if they don't let people book other rides in between, they won't be maximizing the LL and minimizing standby times. It makes no sense not to be able to reserve another LL if you're hours away from your return time on your current one.


----------



## StarrySkye21

So it sounds like it may be best to get the soonest available genie+ ride offering and go from there.
For example: I’m in the park at 9am and am offered a Pirates pass for 10:15 or a BTMR pass for 3:30.  It would probably be smarter to take the earlier pass (if it’s a ride I want) so that Im getting my moneys worth and not waiting all day for my pass.


----------



## cakebaker

StarrySkye21 said:


> So it sounds like it may be best to get the soonest available genie+ ride offering and go from there.
> For example: I’m in the park at 9am and am offered a Pirates pass for 10:15 or a BTMR pass for 3:30.  It would probably be smarter to take the earlier pass (if it’s a ride I want) so that I’m not waiting all day for my pass.



Only if they don't allow you to book another one after a certain amount of time has passed. If you're having to book a reservations hours away from ride time, you can bet it's going to run out quicker than others. If they allow us to book after 90 minutes or so, I'm booking the rides I think will be sold out first, then fill in with lesser rides. If they don't then I don't tie up my whole day waiting and as for me, I'll ride the more popular ones during the EE events or EMH's.


----------



## Sandisw

cakebaker said:


> Did we ever get clarification on whether or not you could pick up another LL reservation after a certain amount of time? For example, if I get one at 9am for a 2 pm time, can I get another one after 2 hrs, at 11?



Has not yet been clarified.  It would seem to make sense, but maybe they are hoping that things will work so well for most rides that getting a return time in less than 2 hours will be the norm.


----------



## StarrySkye21

cakebaker said:


> Only if they don't allow you to book another one after a certain amount of time has passed. If you're having to book a reservations hours away from ride time, you can bet it's going to run out quicker than others. If they allow us to book after 90 minutes or so, I'm booking the rides I think will be sold out first, then fill in with lesser rides. If they don't then I don't tie up my whole day waiting and as for me, I'll ride the more popular ones during the EE events or EMH's.



but if they actually let us stack after a time , could you actually “fill in” with lesser rides or would all additional passes have to have come-back times after your first?  For example: At 9 am on a crowded day  you manage to snag a BTMR pass with a return time of 6:00 pm.  After 90 minutes you can stack another with a return time sometime after 6:00 pm, but not earlier.


----------



## JakeAZ

StarrySkye21 said:


> but if they actually let us stack after a time , could you actually “fill in” with lesser rides or would all additional passes have to have come-back times after your first?  For example: At 9 am on a crowded day  you manage to snag a BTMR pass with a return time of 6:00 pm.  After 90 minutes you can stack another with a return time sometime after 6:00 pm, but not earlier.


Even if they allow you to pull another after a set time (I've seen credible rumors of 120 minutes), you will only be offered the next available on a ride.  Seeing 6pm slots for rides, while checking at 9am probably isn't going to happen, based on what I've read.


----------



## Gordo Gato

StarrySkye21 said:


> but if they actually let us stack after a time , could you actually “fill in” with lesser rides or would all additional passes have to have come-back times after your first? For example: At 9 am on a crowded day you manage to snag a BTMR pass with a return time of 6:00 pm. After 90 minutes you can stack another with a return time sometime after 6:00 pm, but not earlier.


It’s been a long time since I did max pass and I know genie isn’t the same but…
If I reserve a pass at 9am for BTMR at 630pm, would I be able to get a second pass (book at 1030) say for HM at 1pm?

it would be really cruddy if 15$ per person per day gets me 1 genie pass in the evening that we may or may not use because it’s so late in the day.


----------



## JakeAZ

Gordo Gato said:


> It’s been a long time since I did max pass and I know genie isn’t the same but…
> If I reserve a pass at 9am for BTMR at 630pm, would I be able to get a second pass (book at 1030) say for HM at 1pm?
> 
> it would be really cruddy if 15$ per person per day gets me 1 genie pass in the evening that we may or may not use because it’s so late in the day.


Nothing has been confirmed if you'll be able to grab another one after a set period of time but before you use your current one.

BUT you won't be able to choose from a list of times on rides.  You will be offered the "next available time".  It's a take it or leave it scenario.

So, if we'll be allowed to grab another one, you can gamble and take a later "next available".  If we're not, it's in your best interest to grab the earliest time available, regardless of ride.


----------



## Gordo Gato

JakeAZ said:


> BUT you won't be able to choose from a list of times on rides. You will be offered the "next available time". It's a take it or leave it scenario.


So if at 701am,  the first time my desired ride is available is 630pm, then that may be the only time I can reserve a genie pass for the day? So in essence it could be 15$ per ride thing?

We would always prefer to snag the earliest ride time so “too early” is not an issue for us.


----------



## JakeAZ

Gordo Gato said:


> So if at 701am,  the first time my desired ride is available is 630pm, then that may be the only time I can reserve a genie pass for the day? So in essence it could be 15$ per ride thing?


I guess, ya that could be the outcome, but if people can't start booking until 7am, it's highly unlikely the "next available" on any ride would be 6:30pm.


----------



## TangledHairDon'tCare

Gordo Gato said:


> So if at 701am,  the first time my desired ride is available is 630pm, then that may be the only time I can reserve a genie pass for the day? So in essence it could be 15$ per ride thing?


I don’t think that will happen mainly because it would mean a ton of other people would have to be ok with taking all of the times that lead up to 6:30 first thing in the morning.  I imagine most people will peruse the list of available rides and choose one that is in the area they want to be when they arrive in the park and go from there.


----------



## Gordo Gato

JakeAZ said:


> I guess, ya that could be the outcome, but if people can't start booking until 7am, it's highly unlikely the "next available" on any ride would be 6:30pm.


Thank you - the lack of a start date as well as definite rules and details is really messing up our planning for 10/2021.


----------



## JakeAZ

Gordo Gato said:


> Thank you - the lack of a start date as well as definite rules and details is really messing up our planning for 10/2021.


I feel for you.  Hopefully you're later in October so there will be tons of posts on what works and what doesn't.


----------



## Cabius

cakebaker said:


> The most popular rides will quickly have later return times and if they don't let people book other rides in between, they won't be maximizing the LL and minimizing standby times. It makes no sense not to be able to reserve another LL if you're hours away from your return time on your current one.


On the flip side, if guests cannot book any more rides in between, it minimizes the incentive to book D-ticket rides later in the afternoon and spreads out demand. If your options are between Haunted Mansion at 10AM or BTMRR at 3PM, how many people will pick HM in order to maintain flexibility and get more rides in? That means rides will book up slowly, and there will be greater availability throughout the day. 

There is a fixed capacity of butts in seats, so everything here is a zero-sum game between guests. By eliminating the complexities that let guests like us game the system to get on more rides, it means more availability for less-savvy guests who don't know all the tricks of the trade.


----------



## rpfennig

ChipNdale8887 said:


> I honestly think the problem with wait times is with the capacity, there just isn't enough to do. Year over year disney rethemes old rides and doesn't add any more capacity or things to do. They tear down old rides and build new ones over top of them. The only solution to long wait times is park expansion or raising prices. You can see which path they have chosen. Universal has chosen rapid growth and has built more and more hotels and a new water park and is planning a new whole park. Long term growth and planning. Disney on the other hand has redone existing rides and focused on the 50th anniversary, what happens after that will be interesting.



It feels a bit like long wait times shifted from "a problem to solve" to "an opportunity to monetize" for Disney. It's not a bug, it's a feature.

A bit like if when you bought a new car, the manufacturers took out a life insurance policy on you... I'd question their commitment to safety features. Similarly, I'm a bit more suspicious about what counts as a good guest experience in Disney's mind when it comes to wait times. 

Sigh... should have gotten a Boo Bash ticket so I could dress up as Charlton Heston at the end of "Soylent Green" and stood in the middle of Main Street... "If we all just stick to stand by, it will be better for everyone! Do you hear me!! Wait times are made of PEOPLE!!!"


----------



## JakeAZ

rpfennig said:


> It feels a bit like long wait times shifted from "a problem to solve" to "an opportunity to monetize" for Disney. It's not a bug, it's a feature.


Yep.  Nobody is better at offering paid "solutions" to the problems they created.


----------



## Babe the Blue Ox

cakebaker said:


> Yes, we've done that many times at DLR, it's certainly not taking advantage, just knowing how the system works. The person I was responding to was talking about paper FP an stacking- which wasn't really stacking at all- just hoarding. It was based on being able to ignore the return times and just grabbing FP's as fast as you could.



That game was called Fast Pass Poker. If you collected enough passes you could fan them out just like a deck of cards.

With a family of 5, we could usually get 6-8 sets (30-40 passes) throughout the morning then play them in the afternoon and early evening when it got really hot and crowded.


----------



## ofcabbagesandkings

JakeAZ said:


> Yep.  Nobody is better at offering paid "solutions" to the problems they created.


100%. If they really were trying to optimize the guest experience, they would increase capacity on rides and they would have stopped cutting shows and other entertainment that started going away long before Covid. This is like when they “solved” the problem of no ADR availability at BoG by making lunch and dinner prix fixe. Or when they tried to spin taking away MDE as a reflection of guests having “more choices” than ever before.


----------



## cakebaker

Cabius said:


> your options are between Haunted Mansion at 10AM or BTMRR at 3PM,



If at 10am the return time for BTMRR is 3 pm, then your theory that a later return time will deter guests is proven wrong. It took many hundreds of people booking it to push the time out that far. There were hundreds willing at 9am to reserve a 2pm return.


----------



## JakeAZ

ofcabbagesandkings said:


> 100%. If they really were trying to optimize the guest experience, they would increase capacity on rides and they would have stopped cutting shows and other entertainment that started going away long before Covid. This is like when they “solved” the problem of no ADR availability at BoG by making lunch and dinner prix fixe. Or when they tried to spin taking away MDE as a reflection of guests having “more choices” than ever before.


Firework viewing too crowded for you?
Well, you’re in luck. We have like 15 different “solutions” for you.


----------



## twodogs

People hated FP- because you had to run all over the park getting paper FPs, people hated FP+ because you had to plan every ride 60 days in advance and the "good" FPs were all immediately booked up and ruined the chances for folks with last minute trips or locals, people hated no FP during COVID because lines were super long, and now people hate G+ for the innumerable reasons in this 85 page thread.  All people can't be happy because it is not ever happening that you will have a reasonably priced, non-crowded, no planning needed, uber-planning will help you succeed and crush other guests, short lines experience at a Disney park (or any theme park worth visiting, that I know of).  Not if Disney wants to continue to be able to be a profitable business that can stay open.

I am glad folks are voicing their concerns and letting Disney know what they don't like about G+ (and maybe letting them know what you do like about it, if you do).  But ultimately, change will occur in the direction that makes Disney more money.  Whatever that is.  It will be a balance of the guest experience versus the maximum extraction of money for their business, with a heavy slant towards the latter.  The good news about that is that you can each VOTE with your WALLET.  Go, don't go right now, don't go ever again, sell your DVC (to someone else who will then go in your place), never stay onsite again since it is not a good value to you anymore, always stay onsite since it gives you great or enough value, buy more DVC points, buy DVC for the first time.  Your actions tell Disney what works and what doesn't since your actions make or don't make them money.

When people begin to interpret every move Disney makes as a business decision, it may lessen their personal feelings of disappointment in the company.  If you don't feel any change they make is creating a valuable experience for you, there are so many options out there for your vacation dollars, that aren't Disney at all.  And I hope that people who are dissatisfied with G+, Boo Bash or whatever else, will go and find something that makes them happier than Disney does in the current incarnation. And spend the heck out of your hard-earned vacation dollars where you feel you are valued!  I also hope Disney is listening, to its most dedicated fans, and reacts accordingly, whatever that is.


----------



## cakebaker

Babe the Blue Ox said:


> With a family of 5, we could usually get 6-8 sets (30-40 passes) throughout the morning then play them in the afternoon and early evening when it got really hot and crowded.



And it locked many people out of the opportunity to ride. It also threw off the way FP was supposed to work. I was very glad when they finally made CM’s enforce return times, but that was at the end before they introduced FP+. I never understood why they allowed it to happen in the first place.

At least with Genie+, that won’t happen. If they allow a window then it’s possible to hold a few at a time, but they have to be used when they’re intended to be used. I don’t think they’ll make that mistake again.


----------



## Babe the Blue Ox

cakebaker said:


> And it locked many people out of the opportunity to ride. It also threw off the way FP was supposed to work. I was very glad when they finally made CM’s enforce return times, but that was at the end before they introduced FP+. I never understood why they allowed it to happen in the first place.
> 
> At least with Genie+, that won’t happen. If they allow a window then it’s possible to hold a few at a time, but they have to be used when they’re intended to be used. I don’t think they’ll make that mistake again.



Yes, those were the days. Even with FP+, it was very easy to get 10-12 sets per day using the refresh method.

We don’t move around as quickly as we used to, and probably showed up late beyond the grace period for whatever reason at least half the time.  Fortunately, we were never once turned away with an expired FP+ on even the most popular attractions.


----------



## meremac

To (hopefully) answer multiple questions, I _think _this is how it will work (although there was some mention of potential tweaks before launch, so take it with a grain of salt until it's officially released). If you are on onsite guest, you can do the following at 7am: join Virtual Queues, make your first Genie+ reservation, make an LL$ reservation. Offsite guests can join Virtual Queues at 7am, but they cannot make Genie+ or LL$ reservations until they physically enter a theme park. Expanding: Genie+ and LL$ will be separate. You can take advantage of one, both, or neither. You can only make a maximum of two LL$ reservations per day. It's possible you will be able to make both LL$ reservations at the same time at 7am, but that wasn't entirely clear. There are no limits to the number of Genie+ reservations you can make each day. However, you will only be able to make one Genie+ reservation at a time. It's possible that you will ultimately be able to hold more than one Genie+ reservation if the system works like DL's MaxPass did (when making a MaxPass, a notification popped up that you would be able to make another one either after scanning in for your current MaxPass reservation or at "x time"...and sometimes "x time" was sooner than your current MaxPass reservation window). That part wasn't clear though.

So here's what I'm thinking a day at MK could _possibly _look like for an onsite guest.

7am: Make Genie+ reservation for BTMR with a 9:30am-10:30am return window. Purchase LL$ for 7DMT with a 10:30am-11:30am window.
8:30am: Enter MK for Early Entry (assuming the park opens at 9am). Ride Space standby.
8:50am?: Ride PP standby.
9:00am: First offsite guests coming into the park and making first Genie+ reservation (onsite already has done 2 attractions).
9:15am-10:15am (this is generous ~ might not take this long): Off PP. Ride 1-2 attractions standby.
9:30am: Make second Genie+ reservation if new window has opened and stacking is allowed.
10:15am: Ride BTMR with Genie+.
10:30am: Ride second Genie+ attraction if stacking was allowed, then make another. If stacking isn't allowed, make second Genie+.
11:00am: Ride 7DMT with LL$.
11:15am: Spend the next few hours doing "Anytime Attractions" like PhilharMagic/Monsters Inc/HoP/CoP, lunch, working in Genie+ ressies.

That would mean on onsite guest could potentially do 7-8 popular attractions in less than 3 hours. It would free up the afternoon for pool time, Park Hopping, exploring MK leisurely, etc. If a guest doesn't want to do LL$, there would be ways to work around that too. Of course, we'll have to see exactly how this all pans out. But this is one potential plan I came up with while I was taking notes during the training yesterday.


----------



## Cabius

cakebaker said:


> If at 10am the return time for BTMRR is 3 pm, then your theory that a later return time will deter guests is proven wrong. It took many hundreds of people booking it to push the time out that far. There were hundreds willing at 9am to reserve a 2pm return.


Right, but without that deterrent it might be snatched up all the way to 7 PM. Deterrent doesn't mean _nobody_ will book 5-hour-away passes - some people aren't even getting to the park until the afternoon, after all - but that fewer people will. 

I'm making up times here; the point is that by not allowing stacking you put downward pressure on demand and improve availability later in the day.


----------



## DavidNYC

JakeAZ said:


> Even if they allow you to pull another after a set time (I've seen credible rumors of 120 minutes), you will only be offered the next available on a ride.  Seeing 6pm slots for rides, while checking at 9am probably isn't going to happen, based on what I've read.



Well - that happened all the time with the paper fastpass system which was based on distributing the next available time and also allowed one at a time.  Not sure why you seem to think that won't happen here when they're also be removing the 2-3 most popular rides from the system in each park putting that much more traffic on the rest of them as far a reservations go.


----------



## cakebaker

DavidNYC said:


> Well - that happened all the time with the paper fastpass system which was based on distributing the next available time and also allowed one at a time.  Not sure why you seem to think that won't happen here when they're also be removing the 2-3 most popular rides from the system in each park putting that much more traffic on the rest of them as far a reservations go.



My recollection with paper FP, being a hopper who often entered our 2nd park after noon or later, is that the most popular rides were almost always out by late afternoon. A lot of that however, was due to people hoarding rides in the morning, going from machine to machine snapping up passes as quickly as they were allowed to. That should not be an issue with Genie+. I do not recall popular rides having return times of late afternoon or evening by what is essentially, near park opening. They did run out, but not that quickly.

They are only removing 2, not 3. That will affect other parks much more than the MK.


----------



## jknc

I get I’m not important and that staffing levels are challenged but it’s been 6 days and I’ve yet to hear back from Disney.
Just curious if folks are seeing the same.

Starting to feel hopeless and can’t find anyone who wants Poly room over Presidents Day weekend.


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## meremac

To add to what others are saying, I think it's possible that some of the more popular Genie+ (not LL$) attractions may quickly have return times well into the afternoon. This is why my gut says that, like MaxPass, guests will be able to book another Genie+ reservation EITHER after scanning into a Genie+ reservation OR 90-120 minutes after making a Genie+ reservation, whichever comes first. Time will tell, but I'm already working up a ton of different potential plans based on multiple scenarios so I'm ready for anything. I can't help but be kind of excited by this! I love a challenge. And I'm also a big Disney dork .


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## DavidNYC

meremac said:


> 9:30am: Make second Genie+ reservation if new window has opened and stacking is allowed.
> 10:30am: Ride second Genie+ attraction if stacking was allowed, then make another. If stacking isn't allowed, make second Genie+.



That is an exceptionally optimistic view of a return time for a 2nd reservation made 2.5 hours after the reservations open.  I remember the days of the old paper FP where they gave them out for the next available time and for any moderately popular ride - there was no way you were getting a return time in 1 hour except during the lowest of crowd times.  Popular rides it was not uncommon for return times to be many hours later (for rides like Toy Story the entire day of reservations was gone within one hour of park opening).  And back then - you had to physically go to the attraction to make the reservation as opposed to now when everyone can make one at 7am from whereever they are so you'd expect a massive increase in the number of people making reservations.  As far as WDW goes -that is the best comparison to what a 1 at a time / next available time reservation system would look like.  I see a lot more flexibility for the first reservation since you're not competing with pre-booked ones - but after that, I foresee a lot more inconvenience and a lot more waiting around and having to schedule your day around times you are assigned that day.


----------



## meremac

DavidNYC said:


> That is an exceptionally optimistic view of a return time for a 2nd reservation made 2.5 hours after the reservations open.  I remember the days of the old paper FP where they gave them out for the next available time and for any moderately popular ride - there was no way you were getting a return time in 1 hour except during the lowest of crowd times.  Popular rides it was not uncommon for return times to be many hours later (for rides like Toy Story the entire day of reservations was gone within one hour of park opening).  And back then - you had to physically go to the attraction to make the reservation as opposed to now when everyone can make one at 7am from whereever they are so you'd expect a massive increase in the number of people making reservations.  As far as WDW goes -that is the best comparison to what a 1 at a time / next available time reservation system would look like.  I see a lot more flexibility for the first reservation since you're not competing with pre-booked ones - but after that, I foresee a lot more inconvenience and a lot more waiting around and having to schedule your day around times you are assigned that day.



You might be right! Time will tell!! I've got a lot of different potential base plans going right now ~ that was just one iteration. We'll see how it all works out!

Edit to Add: I do think it's going to depend a lot on which attraction you're going for. There will inevitably be some available with not-far-into-the-future return times. If you did Space and PP before park opening, then HM and Splash standby (plus maybe PotC depending on how much time you had), then BTMR Genie+ return time, plus 7DMT LL$, you could likely get something like IASW or Under the Sea with a very quick return time.


----------



## krybandt

meremac said:


> If you are on onsite guest, you can do the following at 7am: join Virtual Queues, make your first Genie+ reservation, make an LL$ reservation. Offsite guests can join Virtual Queues at 7am, but they cannot make Genie+ or LL$ reservations until they physically enter a theme park.


Can someone confirm if the above is correct? I thought I read both onsite and offsite guests can make their first Genie+ reservation at 7am, regardless of where they are. I thought it was only LL reservations that could be made by on-site guests at 7am and offsite guests must wait until they're in the park.


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## meremac

krybandt said:


> Can someone confirm if the above is correct? I thought I read both onsite and offsite guests can make their first Genie+ reservation at 7am, regardless of where they are. I thought it was only LL reservations that could be made by on-site guests at 7am and offsite guests must wait until they're in the park.



Unless I'm losing my mind, I SWEAR I saw it on the slide deck of the training session yesterday. I have been trying all morning to find a recording of the session. I'll keep looking.


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## boxer

Without reading 86 pages--when does this service start?  Have small trip in early-Oct, and wondering if it would be rolled out by then?


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## meremac

boxer said:


> Without reading 86 pages--when does this service start?  Have small trip in early-Oct, and wondering if it would be rolled out by then?



That is still up in the air.


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## cakebaker

boxer said:


> Without reading 86 pages--when does this service start?  Have small trip in early-Oct, and wondering if it would be rolled out by then?



They haven't said yet.


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## krybandt

meremac said:


> Unless I'm losing my mind, I SWEAR I saw it on the slide deck of the training session yesterday. I have been trying all morning to find a recording of the session. I'll keep looking.


Maybe it's up in the air...I found where I read that both kinds of guests can book G+ at 7am. 

https://www.disneytouristblog.com/lightning-lanes-genie-plus-disney-world-faq-guide/


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## meremac

krybandt said:


> Maybe it's up in the air...I found where I read that both kinds of guests can book G+ at 7am.
> 
> https://www.disneytouristblog.com/lightning-lanes-genie-plus-disney-world-faq-guide/



Yeah I saw that too on a couple of blogs. But I wrote it down word for word. Genie+ and LL$ were listed as 7am for onsite guests only. As I've mentioned, though, I asked several direct questions and the response was that they're still ironing things out and they look forward to sharing details later. We'll see! I just wish I had taken a screenshot. There is supposed to be a recording on our Travel Professionals page, but it's not there (at least not where I can find it) yet.


----------



## krybandt

meremac said:


> Yeah I saw that too on a couple of blogs. But I wrote it down word for word. Genie+ and LL$ were listed as 7am for onsite guests only. As I've mentioned, though, I asked several direct questions and the response was that they're still ironing things out and they look forward to sharing details later. We'll see! I just wish I had taken a screenshot. There is supposed to be a recording on our Travel Professionals page, but it's not there (at least not where I can find it) yet.



Thanks for taking and sharing notes!


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## dvc lover 1970

krybandt said:


> Can someone confirm if the above is correct? I thought I read both onsite and offsite guests can make their first Genie+ reservation at 7am, regardless of where they are. I thought it was only LL reservations that could be made by on-site guests at 7am and offsite guests must wait until they're in the park.


My understanding was all guests could join virtual que at 7, but onsite guests could make + and LL reservations at 7, offsite guests had to be in the park.


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## rmclain73

DavidNYC said:


> That is an exceptionally optimistic view of a return time for a 2nd reservation made 2.5 hours after the reservations open.  I remember the days of the old paper FP where they gave them out for the next available time and for any moderately popular ride - there was no way you were getting a return time in 1 hour except during the lowest of crowd times.  Popular rides it was not uncommon for return times to be many hours later (for rides like Toy Story the entire day of reservations was gone within one hour of park opening).  And back then - you had to physically go to the attraction to make the reservation as opposed to now when everyone can make one at 7am from whereever they are so you'd expect a massive increase in the number of people making reservations.  As far as WDW goes -that is the best comparison to what a 1 at a time / next available time reservation system would look like.  I see a lot more flexibility for the first reservation since you're not competing with pre-booked ones - but after that, I foresee a lot more inconvenience and a lot more waiting around and having to schedule your day around times you are assigned that day.



Only time will tell how this all comes together, but there are a couple of  differences in Genie+ from the old paper FastPass to consider.  1. Not everyone will pay for Genie+ whereas everyone was able to get paper tickets.  2.  Once you had the paper ticket there was very little you could do with it other than go on the ride, give it away, or just leave the park without using it.  With Genie+, same as was the case with MaxPass and FP+, you will have the ability to cancel, modify, and refresh within the app.  Once Disney switched over to FP+ they were also able to drop more availability throughout the day.  Lets hope they are able to do the same with Genie+.

Once the program has been out for a couple of weeks I am sure most people on this board will be educated on the best strategy.


----------



## SusanDK

I haven't finished reading all 85 pages of this thread, but a few comments, questions and concerns:

I have read a lot of comments that people had to plan FP+ 60 days in advance. We are local and we never planned more than a day or two in advance, mostly same day, and I loved FP+ compared to paper FP- or any other option. What I liked about it was the ability to plan three attractions, all timed fairly close to each other, and do so for late afternoon/evening, prior to arrival. So we could go over at 3:00 or 4:00 pm or later, do three attractions in a few hours, and leave. With FP- (paper), we arrived at the parks and had to walk to all the attractions, only to invariably find the fast passes gone for the day. With FP+, I loved that we could plan to come later in the day, not first thing in the morning, and only spend a few hours. Even before we were local but came to Orlando on vacation, we were never rope-droppers nor would we spend 6+ hours at WDW in a day. (For fun one time, we spent an entire day hopping between Epcot, MK and Studios but that wasn't a normal visit for us.)

So question/concern - if we buy Genie+, will there still be LL (not LL$, just LL via Genie+) availability if we don't arrive at the park before late afternoon? And/Or if we are at a park with Genie+, after we check in for our first Genie+ attraction and have the option to reserve our next one, will it be hours away, or will there be available attractions within the next, say, hour? I think Disney assumes that all guest plan to stay all day at the parks, or that late arrivals plan to stay until closing. For those guests who don't want to spend all day, Disney wants to find a way to encourage them to stretch out their visit. So I'm concerned that they won't make it easy to get a few quick rides in a short amount of time via Genie+.

I'm also hoping there will be an option for Annual Passholders to purchase an annual Genie+ like I've heard MaxPass had at DL. I would definitely pay the $125 extra that MaxPass was to have Genie+ on my AP. Something tells me, however, that Disney is unlikely to hold that price for WDW based on the number of attractions available at WDW on Genie+ vs. DL. But I would rather pay it up front with my AP purchase than think about our paying $30 extra (for the two of us) each time we want to pop over to the parks for a couple of hours. We have the Universal premium tickets that allow express lane entry after 4 pm that we enjoy and wish Disney would offer something like it for AP holders.

As for the Individual Purchase rides, we would most likely skip those unless we can miraculously catch a standby line that is reasonable on a slow day.


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## meremac

dvc lover 1970 said:


> My understanding was all guests could join virtual que at 7, but onsite guests could make + and LL reservations at 7, offsite guests had to be in the park.



Yes, that was 100% my understanding as well.


----------



## mi*vida*loca

When we say virtual que we are referring to the boarding groups for Remy and ROTR right? We assume it’ll be the same as how ROTR runs?


----------



## meremac

krybandt said:


> Thanks for taking and sharing notes!



You're welcome! It's not much more than what's already been announced, I know. But since it was definitely information that we're allowed to pass on to our clients, I figured I could share it here too!


----------



## meremac

mi*vida*loca said:


> When we say virtual que we are referring to the boarding groups for Remy and ROTR right? We assume it’ll be the same as how ROTR runs?



Correct, that's the assumption. It also sounded like a couple of other attractions resort-wide may be moved to VQ as well. That will be a wait-and-see thing.


----------



## mi*vida*loca

dvc lover 1970 said:


> My understanding was all guests could join virtual que at 7, but onsite guests could make + and LL reservations at 7, offsite guests had to be in the park.



I’ve read G+ could be made at 7 am for everyone but that’s was just rumors on blogs. Disney hasn’t released any info regarding that. There’s so much info floating around. 

What @meremac is posting makes sense and would be better for us on-site folks.


----------



## Heather07438

DavidNYC said:


> Well - that happened all the time with the paper fastpass system which was based on distributing the next available time and also allowed one at a time.  Not sure why you seem to think that won't happen here when they're also be removing the 2-3 most popular rides from the system in each park putting that much more traffic on the rest of them as far a reservations go.


With a cool down it could work like this (and who knows, they may do a shorter cooldown for onsite vs offsite, 90 vs 120mins):

I ropedropped MK and have done a mix of standby and g+, decide to go take a pool/nap break shortly after 12pm noon.  I find a BTM for 5pm and take it.  Around 2pm get a 6pm for Jungle Cruise.  At 4 pm find a HM for 7pm.  If onsite gets the 90min advantage we could squeeze in one more selection before returning to MK around 5pm.  Plus we'd still be able to keep selecting thru the evening.

We'll need to see how all this works in practice.  Some people are saying the devil is in the details but maybe the angel is in the details.


----------



## meremac

mi*vida*loca said:


> What @meremac is posting makes sense and would be better for us on-site folks.



It would be a HUGE onsite perk. I hope that's how it ultimately works out!


----------



## meremac

Heather07438 said:


> With a cool down it could work like this (and who knows, they may do a shorter cooldown for onsite vs offsite, 90 vs 120mins):
> 
> I ropedropped MK and have done a mix of standby and g+, decide to go take a pool/nap break shortly after 12pm noon.  I find a BTM for 5pm and take it.  Around 2pm get a 6pm for Jungle Cruise.  At 4 pm find a HM for 7pm.  If onsite gets the 90min advantage we could squeeze in one more selection before returning to MK around 5pm.  Plus we'd still be able to keep selecting thru the evening.
> 
> We'll need to see how all this works in practice.  Some people are saying the devil is in the details but maybe the angel is in the details.



That is how I'm envisioning it as well. If the system ends up working like that, it could be really awesome. Fingers crossed!


----------



## mi*vida*loca

DavidNYC said:


> Well - that happened all the time with the paper fastpass system which was based on distributing the next available time and also allowed one at a time.  Not sure why you seem to think that won't happen here when they're also be removing the 2-3 most popular rides from the system in each park putting that much more traffic on the rest of them as far a reservations go.



They were also free back then. Let’s see how it goes when you have to pay. Hopefully they don’t go as quickly.


----------



## mi*vida*loca

Heather07438 said:


> With a cool down it could work like this (and who knows, they may do a shorter cooldown for onsite vs offsite, 90 vs 120mins):
> 
> I ropedropped MK and have done a mix of standby and g+, decide to go take a pool/nap break shortly after 12pm noon.  I find a BTM for 5pm and take it.  Around 2pm get a 6pm for Jungle Cruise.  At 4 pm find a HM for 7pm.  If onsite gets the 90min advantage we could squeeze in one more selection before returning to MK around 5pm.  Plus we'd still be able to keep selecting thru the evening.
> 
> We'll need to see how all this works in practice.  Some people are saying the devil is in the details but maybe the angel is in the details.



Im hoping for this. And will be watching trip reports and reading blogs to see the strategies. The experts will have it figured out. Lol


----------



## meremac

This conversation is just making me so excited!! I can't wait to see what this new system brings!


----------



## Heather07438

mi*vida*loca said:


> They were also free back then. Let’s see how it goes when you have to pay. Hopefully they don’t go as quickly.


Absolutely genie paid options will be significantly different than FP distribution.


----------



## RoseGold

For on-site 7AM to be an advantage, G+ has to be very limited.  And even if then, 7AM and $15, oof.

FP used to take estimated 70-80% of the capacity of the ride.  If LL, which is not free, really fills up fast, it won't be anywhere near the scale of the FP.  That's good news for standby, because it means the lines will be moving.

I do think there will be an on-site advantage, I just don't think Disney even knows what it is yet.  A 7D LL would be enough for many.


----------



## Orsino

meremac said:


> To add to what others are saying, I think it's possible that some of the more popular Genie+ (not LL$) attractions may quickly have return times well into the afternoon.



I disagree. My feeling is that any ride that *would* be so popular as to have late afternoon return times in the early morning will be a paid LL (LL$ I like that designation. Good way to distinguish from regular LL). 
Back in the Paper FP days, TSMM was the ride that went nutso in the morning with all FP distributed by 11AM. I think in Epcot, Test Track and Soarin' might have had popular distribution too, but nothing compared to TSMM. I'm trying to remember if MK had any Paper FP that went super quick.

Of course, the flip side is that when you remove the top two rides from Genie+ and make them LL$, something else will be the most popular Genie+. In MK there is enough spread out that I don't forsee a problem. Epcot, DS and AK have a dearth of Genie+ options that might cause a concentration, but I also think Genie+ uptake will be smaller in those parks as well.

I'm excited to see what will happen. Is this what watching NASCAR is like?


----------



## meremac

Orsino said:


> I disagree. My feeling is that any ride that *would* be so popular as to have late afternoon return times in the early morning will be a paid LL (LL$ I like that designation. Good way to distinguish from regular LL).
> Back in the Paper FP days, TSMM was the ride that went nutso in the morning with all FP distributed by 11AM. I think in Epcot, Test Track and Soarin' might have had popular distribution too, but nothing compared to TSMM. I'm trying to remember if MK had any Paper FP that went super quick.
> 
> Of course, the flip side is that when you remove the top two rides from Genie+ and make them LL$, something else will be the most popular Genie+. In MK there is enough spread out that I don't forsee a problem. Epcot, DS and AK have a dearth of Genie+ options that might cause a concentration, but I also think Genie+ uptake will be smaller in those parks as well.
> 
> I'm excited to see what will happen. Is this what watching NASCAR is like?



I think you could be right too. I'm leaning heavily on my experience with MaxPass at DL because that _feels_ the most similar, but I know it's a whole different ballgame at WDW. I agree with you about being excited!! I can't wait to see what happens.


----------



## TankFamily

I think that Disney will be exercising big data analytics with the Genie and Genie+ (even more so than they currently do with MDX). For those unfamiliar with big data analytics, all mobile devices with the app can be used as "sensors" to provide more accurate wait times and thus recommendations per your itinerary...we'll see. If that is the case, then the more devices that use Genie/Genie+ the more accurate the recommendations provided will be.


----------



## MikeandReneePlus5

I agree with the thoughts in the last few pages that this will likely be just like paper FP in that return times will be pushed out just like they were for TSMM and Soarin and TT back in the day.

The difference here is $$.  Not everyone will spring for the Genie+ so demand will fall.  And if it doesn't fall far enough...they can always raise the price.

Same for LL.  they can control supply with price.


----------



## dominiondad

Marionnette said:


> Because they have to throw some kind of bone to onsite guests so that they feel that the inflated resort costs have value. Can you imagine the advertising?
> 
> "Plus as a guest of a Walt Disney World Resort*, you have the ability to purchase AND book your Genie+ ride reservation BEFORE entering the park!"
> 
> Doesn't that like something that will make people forget about the loss of DME and EMH?



Sigh.  It sounds like Disney is doing the forgetting.  In the past 20 years I've taken my family to WDW at least a dozen times, 10 of which we stayed on-site.  Add to that two Disney Cruises, a trip to DL, a Disney credit card, countless movies, toys, and clothes.  But Walt forbid I should decide that an on-site booking is simply too expensive for a 10-day trip for 8 people, I'm now a second class citizen because they aren't getting enough of my money.  I'm starting to think that Congress and Disney use the same financial advisors.

Perhaps instead of basing perks like Genie+ bookings on the "what have you done for me lately" model, Disney should have a loyalty club that rewards long-term customers who funnel their paychecks to Disney in many ways over many years.  You get a point for every dollar you spend at Disney, whether it's on a cruise, in a Disney store, a DVD, a vacation, etc... and then those points could be used to purchase the perks that are most important.


----------



## jimim

I forgot how paper fast pass worked?  You get one for 8 am ride say. Say you were off by 830. When were you able to get another paper pass?  Could you have more than 1 in hand?  I think no for that second part but I can’t remember.
All I remember was raked the most efficient path to the soaring building to get a pass. Lol. And oh those toy story mania morning. Classic craziness and ill mannered adults. Lol. Those were the days. Such simpler times. Such cheaper times.  Ahh the good ol days.


----------



## jimim

dominiondad said:


> Sigh.  It sounds like Disney is doing the forgetting.  In the past 20 years I've taken my family to WDW at least a dozen times, 10 of which we stayed on-site.  Add to that two Disney Cruises, a trip to DL, a Disney credit card, countless movies, toys, and clothes.  But Walt forbid I should decide that an on-site booking is simply too expensive for a 10-day trip for 8 people, I'm now a second class citizen because they aren't getting enough of my money.  I'm starting to think that Congress and Disney use the same financial advisors.
> 
> Perhaps instead of basing perks like Genie+ bookings on the "what have you done for me lately" model, Disney should have a loyalty club that rewards long-term customers who funnel their paychecks to Disney in many ways over many years.  You get a point for every dollar you spend at Disney, whether it's on a cruise, in a Disney store, a DVD, a vacation, etc... and then those points could be used to purchase the perks that are most important.



then I should have life time season passes for the 100k in wdcc porcelain I have sitting in my front room. Lol

I think I got a free lanyard out of it. Actually wdcc forged all my extended Disney family I have today from all the signings and events.


----------



## NuJoy

()


----------



## meremac

NuJoy said:


> I’m getting confused.  I thought only LL$ was on a reservation system, where picking an exact time might be a option.  Everyone is talking like G+ will unfold all the times for all rides and at 7:00am on-site guests will get a smorgasbord of options to select from.  That’s not how the released info read to me.  I invisioned the Genie app telling you what is available “right now” only.  Choose it or keep refreshing for something else “right now”.  Ride that ride, then select another ride that is available “right now”, so on and so on.



No. Genie itself will tell you which attractions have low standby waits "right now" and make recommendations based on that (and on your interests). That is free. Genie+ is $15/person per day and will allow you to make Lightning Lane reservations for most attractions (except for the LL$ attractions that aren't included in Genie+), one at a time.


----------



## Cabius

meremac said:


> No. Genie itself will tell you which attractions have low standby waits "right now" and make recommendations based on that (and on your interests). That is free. Genie+ is $15/person per day and will allow you to make Lightning Lane reservations for most attractions (except for the LL$ attractions that aren't included in Genie+), one at a time.


Yes, but NuJoy is questioning the assumption that (like FP+) Genie+ will allow guests to choose a return time throughout the day.

Disney's published descriptions suggest that return times for G+ will just be "next available". So at 10AM, if the next available LL window for PotC is 11:15AM, you can take it or leave it, but you can't skip over it and book 12:30 PM instead like you could have for FP+.


----------



## Marionnette

dominiondad said:


> Sigh.  It sounds like Disney is doing the forgetting.  In the past 20 years I've taken my family to WDW at least a dozen times, 10 of which we stayed on-site.  Add to that two Disney Cruises, a trip to DL, a Disney credit card, countless movies, toys, and clothes.  But Walt forbid I should decide that an on-site booking is simply too expensive for a 10-day trip for 8 people, I'm now a second class citizen because they aren't getting enough of my money.  I'm starting to think that Congress and Disney use the same financial advisors.
> 
> Perhaps instead of basing perks like Genie+ bookings on the "what have you done for me lately" model, Disney should have a loyalty club that rewards long-term customers who funnel their paychecks to Disney in many ways over many years.  You get a point for every dollar you spend at Disney, whether it's on a cruise, in a Disney store, a DVD, a vacation, etc... and then those points could be used to purchase the perks that are most important.


I agree. There's nothing worse than being told "You're not the one I value. I want someone new." And that seems to be Disney's attitude. It's insulting and yes, it hurts.


----------



## meremac

Cabius said:


> Yes, but NuJoy is questioning the assumption that (like FP+) Genie+ will allow guests to choose a return time throughout the day.
> 
> Disney's published descriptions suggest that return times for G+ will just be "next available". So at 10AM, if the next available LL window for PotC is 11:15AM, you can take it or leave it, but you can't skip over it and book 12:30 PM instead like you could have for FP+.



Oh gotcha. Yes, "next available". I was confused by the "right now" part. Yes, if this works anything like DL's MaxPass did, you will either have to accept the return window displayed for the attraction you want or keep refreshing until you get one you like (or grab it and try to modify it to seomthing later), which is a gamble. Based on what's been released so far, that is my understanding about how it will work.


----------



## CBMom01

If LL and Genie+ are truly separated, then in theory I could have a LL for 7DMT at 10:00 and a Gen


Marionnette said:


> I agree. There's nothing worse than being told "You're not the one I value. I want someone new." And that seems to be Disney's attitude. It's insulting and yes, it hurts.


Theres already a rewards program through the Chase cards


----------



## Marionnette

CBMom01 said:


> If LL and Genie+ are truly separated, then in theory I could have a LL for 7DMT at 10:00 and a Gen
> 
> Theres already a rewards program through the Chase cards


You mean the Disney Visa? That's a really crappy rewards credit card. There are much better ones out there.


----------



## DisneyDar

jknc said:


> I get I’m not important and that staffing levels are challenged but it’s been 6 days and I’ve yet to hear back from Disney.
> Just curious if folks are seeing the same.
> 
> Starting to feel hopeless and can’t find anyone who wants Poly room over Presidents Day weekend.


I think you're on the wrong thread.


----------



## CBMom01

Marionnette said:


> You mean the Disney Visa? That's a really crappy rewards credit card. There are much better ones out there.


Other Disney-redeemable rewards? Ive heard good things about Capital one venture


----------



## DisneyLover1217

Does the $15 include unlimited rides in the LL for the day or is there a limit?  Also, have they said what the top tier rides will cost, like ROTR, REMY, etc.?


----------



## Marionnette

CBMom01 said:


> Other Disney-redeemable rewards? Ive heard good things about Capital one venture


Thank you but I'm not looking to spend more at Disney if they're not reciprocating the love. If I use my CC rewards for travel, it won't be at Disney.


----------



## DisneyDar

SusanDK said:


> I haven't finished reading all 85 pages of this thread, but a few comments, questions and concerns:
> 
> I have read a lot of comments that people had to plan FP+ 60 days in advance. We are local and we never planned more than a day or two in advance, mostly same day, and I loved FP+ compared to paper FP- or any other option. What I liked about it was the ability to plan three attractions, all timed fairly close to each other, and do so for late afternoon/evening, prior to arrival. So we could go over at 3:00 or 4:00 pm or later, do three attractions in a few hours, and leave. With FP- (paper), we arrived at the parks and had to walk to all the attractions, only to invariably find the fast passes gone for the day. With FP+, I loved that we could plan to come later in the day, not first thing in the morning, and only spend a few hours. Even before we were local but came to Orlando on vacation, we were never rope-droppers nor would we spend 6+ hours at WDW in a day. (For fun one time, we spent an entire day hopping between Epcot, MK and Studios but that wasn't a normal visit for us.)
> 
> So question/concern - if we buy Genie+, will there still be LL (not LL$, just LL via Genie+) availability if we don't arrive at the park before late afternoon? And/Or if we are at a park with Genie+, after we check in for our first Genie+ attraction and have the option to reserve our next one, will it be hours away, or will there be available attractions within the next, say, hour? I think Disney assumes that all guest plan to stay all day at the parks, or that late arrivals plan to stay until closing. For those guests who don't want to spend all day, Disney wants to find a way to encourage them to stretch out their visit. So I'm concerned that they won't make it easy to get a few quick rides in a short amount of time via Genie+.
> 
> I'm also hoping there will be an option for Annual Passholders to purchase an annual Genie+ like I've heard MaxPass had at DL. I would definitely pay the $125 extra that MaxPass was to have Genie+ on my AP. Something tells me, however, that Disney is unlikely to hold that price for WDW based on the number of attractions available at WDW on Genie+ vs. DL. But I would rather pay it up front with my AP purchase than think about our paying $30 extra (for the two of us) each time we want to pop over to the parks for a couple of hours. We have the Universal premium tickets that allow express lane entry after 4 pm that we enjoy and wish Disney would offer something like it for AP holders.
> 
> As for the Individual Purchase rides, we would most likely skip those unless we can miraculously catch a standby line that is reasonable on a slow day.





Gordo Gato said:


> Thank you - the lack of a start date as well as definite rules and details is really messing up our planning for 10/2021.


I doubt that everything will be ironed out by 10/1.


----------



## DisneyDar

elgerber said:


> If I read it the same way, $15 per person per day? I am good with that!


Family of four, $60 per day, 5 day vacation is $300 additional.  You may be ok with that but most families will not be.  On top of paying for something that was free to begin with,  coupled with all of the other amenity reductions and price increases.....


----------



## meremac

DisneyLover1217 said:


> Does the $15 include unlimited rides in the LL for the day or is there a limit?  Also, have they said what the top tier rides will cost, like ROTR, REMY, etc.?



With Genie+, which costs $15/person per day, you can make as many Lightning Lane reservations for attractions included in Genie+ as you want. There is no limit; however, you can only make them one at a time. No official word yet on whether stacking will be allowed. LL$ attractions (super headliner attractions that aren't included in Genie+, like RotR and Remy) will be available for separate purchase but they haven't announced how much those will cost yet, just that the cost will vary by date and attraction.


----------



## Marionnette

DisneyLover1217 said:


> Does the $15 include unlimited rides in the LL for the day or is there a limit?  Also, have they said what the top tier rides will cost, like ROTR, REMY, etc.?


They are unlimited only in the sense that you can get as many as they make available to you throughout the day. You cannot schedule multiple LL at one time. There isn't even any word as to whether you can hold 2 LL at the same time if the first one you scheduled is 2+ hours into the future, which is how FP- worked.

No official word as to which attractions will be tier 1 but it's been rumored that MFRR and SDD at HS, 7DMTR and SpcMtn in MK, FoP and Safari in AK and TT in Epcot. If there's a second in Epcot, it could be Frozen or Soarin'.


----------



## meremac

Marionnette said:


> No official word as to which attractions will be tier 1 but it's been rumored that MFRR and SDD at HS, 7DMTR and SpcMtn in MK, FoP and Safari in AK and TT in Epcot. If there's a second in Epcot, it could be Frozen or Soarin'.



RotR was mentioned as one that may be available for LL$, as well as Remy at Epcot.


----------



## RoseGold

I really don't think the details are over.  As written, this sounds like the 7AM, maybe on site gets a leg up on the first ride. This is like saying no point in staying on site anymore, you'll give us $15 either way.  Like FP, messing with line priority costs Disney nothing, and goes a long way to making people want to stay on site.

Disney has rooms to fill.  Huge, expensive hotels and huge incredibly expensive deluxe hotels.  There has to be an on site advantage we haven't seen yet.


----------



## jknc

DisneyDar said:


> I think you're on the wrong thread.


I’m not. My pointed email was to Disney regarding absurdity of Genie+/LL. Just curious if others are getting responses. I’ve typically received a courtesy call in the past.


----------



## disneyseniors

TangledHairDon'tCare said:


> Do we know for sure that each park will have 2 paid LL attractions, or are we assuming that because you may purchase 2 each day?



No they don't.  You get 2 paid passes for tier 1 a day, period.   You can use both in one park, or split them up for 2 parks.   But there are no 2 in each park, is what I've been told on here.


----------



## Nick6300

TangledHairDon'tCare said:


> The rides that extra are not included in Genie+


Yes - I totally forgot about that. Not that it matters, do we know why they limited it to 2 per day paid LLs, if they only care about profits? I can't be that they don't want to alienate the people who feel they can't afford a bunch of them and rarely splurge for them. Maybe that's what research has concluded as the right number to keep the LLs moving quick enough throughout the day.


----------



## cygnusx1jg

I can't even imagine how much the upcharge will be on Guardians and Tron once they open in the (hopefully) near future.


----------



## moesy4

We have decided to cancel our trip in the fall based almost solely on this announcement. Pretty much everything that has been announced since we booked this summer has been negative. The only potential positive has been the deluxe EMH but we were booked for a long weekend there, so it didn’t help at all. Paying an extra 700 for our family to stress and spend extra time on our phones was not a good announcement and we have decided we probably will not be back at all.


----------



## Beer Me

I don’t like the idea of paying genie+ or lightning lanes. I don’t like most of the changes made over the last year.

Before covid hit this year was supposed to be a big Disney trip for my family but now I’ve actually wrapped my head around the fact that I might not ever come back.

There a bunch of reasons - not just genie - but Disney just doesn’t seem like it would be as fun anymore. And the on-site resort prices seem incredibly out of whack to me. So much of what’s been happening is just a turn-off. 

This could change. I’m willing to give it another year when - hopefully - covid concerns aren’t having as much impact and things are at some steady level of normalcy. It will be easier to assess everything then.


----------



## Nick6300

Marionnette said:


> Because they have to throw some kind of bone to onsite guests so that they feel that the inflated resort costs have value. Can you imagine the advertising?
> 
> "Plus as a guest of a Walt Disney World Resort*, you have the ability to purchase AND book your Genie+ ride reservation BEFORE entering the park!"
> 
> *Doesn't that like something that will make people forget about the loss of DME and EMH?*



Sarcasm, I know, but No, I'd much rather have EMH when it was either an hour early or couple hours late to a rotating park each day. 30 min. early is a downgrade to what is already like 45 min earlier than official park hours.


----------



## DisneyLover1217

meremac said:


> With Genie+, which costs $15/person per day, you can make as many Lightning Lane reservations for attractions included in Genie+ as you want. There is no limit; however, you can only make them one at a time. No official word yet on whether stacking will be allowed. LL$ attractions (super headliner attractions that aren't included in Genie+, like RotR and Remy) will be available for separate purchase but they haven't announced how much those will cost yet, just that the cost will vary by date and attraction.



Thank you for the info


----------



## GoingSince1990

Nick6300 said:


> Not that it matters, do we know why they limited it to 2 per day paid LLs, if they only care about profits?


To avoid cannibalizing the VIP Tour business. I heard somewhere there are 65 tours a day. At an average of 8 hours each and $600 per hour, that amounts to $114 million per year.


----------



## MikeandReneePlus5

cygnusx1jg said:


> I can't even imagine how much the upcharge will be on Guardians and Tron once they open in the (hopefully) near future.



I've heard something like $25 per person based on Paris.


----------



## NY Pirate Princess

I'm still at YUCK.

Right now, at work, I have to fill in about 4 different forms to instruct my team which day I will be in the office and which day I will be working from home, despite the fact that I respond to any request for information within 5 minutes regardless of where I am.

I fill out a form, and a spreadsheet, and another form in SharePoint, and then my timesheet, and sometimes an outlook calendar. I spend so much time telling everyone where I am that I work less than before, due to all the tracking.

This new thing feels like that. If I don't spend extra money, I'll still get push notifications telling me to go somewhere else and spend the money on something else anyway.  I can spend more money to get some rides, sometimes, but maybe not if they sell a lot of G+ and all those rides are used up, like they were in the paper fp days. I can pay extra to ride ROR or FOP, but maybe not because I might be too busy trying to book the first ride of the day to buy the other ride I have to pay extra for....

I get up before 7 on WDW days. I can plan now, or plan later, or plan not at all. But it's the paying, and paying, and paying that I just don't feel good about. I'm saving right now for our big 2022 trip to celebrate a milestone birthday, and I cringe every time I move money to that account and think of what else it could do. I already have on site lodging and tickets and park passes for July and August of 2022. Yes, some people do go in the summer!

Sure. I know. I'll wait and see how it all plays out before I say "I'm never going back! We are going to Universal!" But I tried Kayaking this summer. I really liked it. I don't have to fly to do it. And it's pretty simple. I just have to buy a boat, a paddle, and a rack. The boat doesn't have to love me back. Doesn't have to make me feel good about myself. But it won't charge me extra to paddle in the morning, or the afternoon, or where there are birds, or trees, or clouds.

I will reserve judgement until it launches and I can see how it works. Disney might not care if return visitors don't return, don't buy DVC, don't help other people plan, don't fly their Disney Freak Flags everywhere. That's okay. I'm looking at boats.


----------



## Karin1984

NY Pirate Princess said:


> I'm still at YUCK.
> 
> Right now, at work, I have to fill in about 4 different forms to instruct my team which day I will be in the office and which day I will be working from home, despite the fact that I respond to any request for information within 5 minutes regardless of where I am.
> 
> I fill out a form, and a spreadsheet, and another form in SharePoint, and then my timesheet, and sometimes an outlook calendar. I spend so much time telling everyone where I am that I work less than before, due to all the tracking.
> 
> This new thing feels like that. If I don't spend extra money, I'll still get push notifications telling me to go somewhere else and spend the money on something else anyway.  I can spend more money to get some rides, sometimes, but maybe not if they sell a lot of G+ and all those rides are used up, like they were in the paper fp days. I can pay extra to ride ROR or FOP, but maybe not because I might be too busy trying to book the first ride of the day to buy the other ride I have to pay extra for....
> 
> I get up before 7 on WDW days. I can play now, or plan later, or plan not at all. But it's the paying, and paying, and paying that I just don't feel good about. I'm saving right now for our big 2022 trip to celebrate a milestone birthday, and I cringe every time I move money to that account and think of what else it could do. I already have on site lodging and tickets and park passes for July and August of 2022. Yes, some people do go in the summer!
> 
> Sure. I know. I'll wait and see how it all plays out before I say "I'm never going back! We are going to Universal!" But I tried Kayaking this summer. I really liked it. I don't have to fly to do it. And it's pretty simple. I just have to buy a boat, a paddle, and a rack. The boat doesn't have to love me back. Doesn't have to make me feel good about myself. But it won't charge me extra to paddle in the morning, or the afternoon, or where there are birds, or trees, or clouds.
> 
> I will reserve judgement until it launches and I can see how it works. Disney might not care if return visitors don't return, don't buy DVC, don't help other people plan, don't fly their Disney Freak Flags everywhere. That's okay. I'm looking at boats.


Ehm... if you cringe at the idea of spending the extra money at WDW and you love kayaking... wouldn't it be a better way to spend your milestone birthday elsewhere? If you are already thinking what else you could do with the money, I would look into creating an awesome nature trip. 

The trip is so far away, you cannot cancel free of charge anymore?


----------



## soniam

I really suggest that everyone watch the following video. A lot of the confusion about who can book Genie+ or individual attraction selections and at what time is answered. They don't specifically mention if you have to enter the park though to book at park opening. Since this comes from Disney, it's the horse's mouth.

Look for Donyell's question at ~11:35 and Ashley's at ~12:35.


----------



## NY Pirate Princess

Karin1984 said:


> Ehm... if you cringe at the idea of spending the extra money at WDW and you love kayaking... wouldn't it be a better way to spend your milestone birthday elsewhere? If you are already thinking what else you could do with the money, I would look into creating an awesome nature trip.
> 
> The trip is so far away, you cannot cancel free of charge anymore?


 Of course I can cancel. That's why I booked cash rooms and didn't tie up someone else's DVC points with the trip. It's not my milestone birthday, it's a traveling companion's 50th. We've been to WDW every year since 2012, except this year. This year we just did the awesome nature trips to stay clear of Covid travel complications.

I am reacting, in general, to the Genie + announcement. And how this feels different than the other downgrades over the last near decade, and how I might be done with Disney and ready for something else.


----------



## JayMass

So I am not thrilled about this, however I did read a comment on the Disney Parks announcement that said something to the effect of:  

"During the old FP+ days EVERY guest was guaranteed 3 FPs. With the new system, not everyone will pay to use the LL (either the $15/day option or the individual attraction selection) so that the stand-by queues won't be as greatly impacted as they were during FP+."

I am not sure I agree with this but I thought it was an interesting perspective.


----------



## ThistleMae

Lashed34 said:


> So it's possible - and very likely probable that RotR would sell out of LL just from on site guests at 0701 every morning.
> 
> They'll be a lot of angry people and Disney are making a rod for their own backs with this one.


I dont' think ROR will sell out of the ala carte slots from onsite guests, depending on how expensive it will be.  Folks will still be trying for the boarding groups first.  I guess we'll see.


----------



## GoingSince1990

MikeandReneePlus5 said:


> I've heard something like $25 per person based on Paris.


Forking out $100 for four people to go on a three minute ride may well be quite painful even for fairly well-off people. Disney needs people to think of it not as paying for a three minute ride, but as paying to avoid a 90 minute wait. And if they are successful in getting people to adopt this mindset, how will people react if they have paid the $100 then show up to ride and standby is only 30 minutes? Nobody likes feeling like a chump. And so now Disney has every incentive to keep the standby line artificially long so the paid IAS riders don’t feel like chumps. I don’t think anyone can predict exactly how all of this will play out. It might be very successful, and profitable, or it could collapse in a mess of seething resentment and confusion.


----------



## Grasshopper2016

moesy4 said:


> The only potential positive has been the deluxe EMH but we were booked for a long weekend there, so it didn’t help at all.


This!  They seem to be scheduled precisely to make you stay for a whole week if you want to be able to take advantage of them.  No accident, obviously.


----------



## JakeAZ

Grasshopper2016 said:


> This!  They seem to be scheduled precisely to make you stay for a whole week if you want to be able to take advantage of them.  No accident, obviously.


Yup.  Thursday check in, with a 6 day, or less stay, gets you no access to MK Deluxe hours.

This leads me to my major gripe about Deluxe hours.  It's only 2 of the 4 parks...


----------



## Nick6300

twodogs said:


> When people begin to interpret every move Disney makes as a business decision, it may lessen their personal feelings of disappointment in the company.  If you don't feel any change they make is creating a valuable experience for you, there are so many options out there for your vacation dollars, that aren't Disney at all.  And I hope that people who are dissatisfied with G+, Boo Bash or whatever else, will go and find something that makes them happier than Disney does in the current incarnation. And spend the heck out of your hard-earned vacation dollars where you feel you are valued!  *I also hope Disney is listening, to its most dedicated fans, and reacts accordingly, whatever that is.*



Disney was listening, for months, people anticipating a paid version of FP, writing about it, talking about it, theorizing specific possibilities. While they figured that G+ (vs the previously "free" system) was going to be ill received, they did it anyway, because, as you mentioned, it provides more revenues, but they also knew that many of us expected it to happen. If we vote, as you put it, by the majority of us utilizing G+, it'll send the message that they can raise the price. Hopefully once Guardians/Tron rollout they rotate the 2 paid attractions rather than expanding it to 3. 

It would be nice if you can link a gift card for paying for select attractions, rather than paying a balance at check in counter if you want to use a GC instead of a CC. And if you could readily track how much you're spending instead of manually looking and calculating it, but that would be against their incentives.


----------



## Einstein509

DisneyDar said:


> I think you're on the wrong thread.


Me too.  Emailed them about this Genie+ debacle four days ago and have yet to hear back.


----------



## btuftee

ThistleMae said:


> I dont' think ROR will sell out of the ala carte slots from onsite guests, depending on how expensive it will be.  Folks will still be trying for the boarding groups first.  I guess we'll see.



The VQ/BG will be cut to make room for IA$ purchases.  Right now, 100% of ROTR's capacity is assigned through the VQ/BG process, so Disney will have to cut away at that somehow.  Perhaps they mess with the timing:  Assume there are 12,000 spots available for ROTR on any given day.  When the IA$ purchase window opens at 7:00am, 6,000 of those slots can be purchased.  At 8:00am, if there are any slots left (out of the 6,000), those could be assigned for free in a BG/VQ.  Then, for the rest of the day, the remaining 6,000 slots are available for sale as IA$.  If any of those last 6,000 slots are unsold at 2:00pm, Disney does another free round of VQ/BG.  That eats up the entire 12,000 allotment for the day, and is one way Disney might do this.  You can bet that if capacity re-opens for ROTR (as it has occasionally in the last few days this month), those will be offered for sale as IA$, and there won't ever be a traditional standby queue.  At least not for a long time!

I think Rat in Epcot will quickly fade from being a paid IA$ option, unless it's pretty cheap.  But you can bet that ROTR, 7DMT, FOP, and Tron (when it opens) will turn a healthy profit on IA$ for a long time.  I could see GOTG replacing Rat as one of the IA$ selections for Epcot, with Test Track staying consistently as the other one.


----------



## Nick6300

GoingSince1990 said:


> To avoid cannibalizing the VIP Tour business. I heard somewhere there are 65 tours a day. At an average of 8 hours each and $600 per hour, that amounts to $114 million per year.



I always end up looking at the VIP guests, even taking in their clothes, and wondering how much money they have to burn to utilize that service. But I've seen a fair share of 3rd party tours that were trying to capture some of that market.


----------



## moesy4

Grasshopper2016 said:


> This!  They seem to be scheduled precisely to make you stay for a whole week if you want to be able to take advantage of them.  No accident, obviously.


I know...I was super excited for this perk when I found out the Dolphin was included but we are booked the exact days that we won't get to do either. That and I really have no interest in EMH at Epcot and would've much preferred AK or HS.


----------



## SusanDK

Marionnette said:


> No official word as to which attractions will be tier 1 but it's been rumored that MFRR and SDD at HS, 7DMTR and SpcMtn in MK, FoP and Safari in AK and TT in Epcot. If there's a second in Epcot, it could be Frozen or Soarin'.



Safari? I would think maybe Everest over Safari, but that's wishful thinking because we don't do Everest. 
Please, not Soarin'! Keep that a Genie+.



meremac said:


> RotR was mentioned as one that may be available for LL$, as well as Remy at Epcot.



If it's Remy and TT in Epcot, then Soarin' is safe? And presumably one of those will be replaced by GotG.



btuftee said:


> I think Rat in Epcot will quickly fade from being a paid IA$ option, unless it's pretty cheap.  But you can bet that ROTR, 7DMT, FOP, and Tron (when it opens) will turn a healthy profit on IA$ for a long time.  I could see GOTG replacing Rat as one of the IA$ selections for Epcot, with Test Track staying consistently as the other one.



Is Test Track really that popular that you think it will stay LL$ over one of the newer attractions? It's so old. I also wonder if the refurbished Splash Mountain could become LL$, maybe replacing 7DMT which is so short.

Do we know for sure that only 2 attractions per park will be LL$? We know that guests may only purchase 2 per day, but is it possible that more than 2 will be Individual Purchase?


----------



## JoeyMayo

Assuming I'm in the minority but I'm 100 percent fine with paying for fast pass access per day. I hated the whole book three a day three months in advance. For an extra 300 bucks for five days, sign me up to not having to worry about lines with my kids.


----------



## meremac

SusanDK said:


> If it's Remy and TT in Epcot, then Soarin' is safe? And presumably one of those will be replaced by GotG.



This is my best guess based on what I've heard, but please know that this has NOT been confirmed so please take it with a grain of salt until it's official. I am _betting_ that the following will be LL$ attractions:

MK: Space and 7DMT (likely that one of these will be replaced by TRON)
EP: Remy and TT (likely that one of these will be replaced by GotG)
AK: FoP and Safaris
HS: SDD and RotR

Again, I could be wrong. But this is my guess.


----------



## WVU Disney Fan

JoeyMayo said:


> Assuming I'm in the minority but I'm 100 percent fine with paying for fast pass access per day. I hated the whole book three a day three months in advance. For an extra 300 bucks for five days, sign me up to not having to worry about lines with my kids.



I agree. As long as there is decent availability for G+ rides throughout the day.


----------



## NuJoy

()


----------



## JayMass

NuJoy said:


> I don’t want to pay for non-guaranteed “winging it”-style park experience when that is what one would naturally expect with their regular park admission.  I’m willing to pay _something_ extra for a guaranteed experience.



I think it will be closer to the old FP system with the paper tickets and kiosks. Nothing was guaranteed back then.


----------



## NY Pirate Princess

JayMass said:


> I think it will be closer to the old FP system with the paper tickets and kiosks. Nothing was guaranteed back then.



Agreed 100%. It is a return of the paper fast pass system without paper. I won't have to run to the kiosk and insert my fistful of cards. I'll be hunched over my phone pushing buttons on the way to rope drop. But luckily for me, I can turn this frustrating tech nightmare over to my kid to run, and I'll be able to kick back in the morning, drink coffee, and enjoy the first Disney trip I didn't micromanage to the second! Oh, wait. I'll have to wake her up first....


----------



## JayMass

NY Pirate Princess said:


> Agreed 100%. It is a return of the paper fast pass system without paper. I won't have to run to the kiosk and insert my fistful of cards. I'll be hunched over my phone pushing buttons on the way to rope drop. But luckily for me, I can turn this frustrating tech nightmare over to my kid to run, and I'll be able to kick back in the morning, drink coffee, and enjoy the first Disney trip I didn't micromanage to the second! Oh, wait. I'll have to wake her up first....



LOL! On our last trip it was my 15 yo daughter with the fast fingers on the RotR BG!


----------



## Nick6300

SusanDK said:


> Safari? I would think maybe Everest over Safari, but that's wishful thinking because we don't do Everest.
> Please, not Soarin'! Keep that a Genie+.
> 
> 
> 
> If it's Remy and TT in Epcot, then Soarin' is safe? And presumably one of those will be replaced by GotG.
> 
> 
> 
> Is Test Track really that popular that you think it will stay LL$ over one of the newer attractions? It's so old. I also wonder if the refurbished Splash Mountain could become LL$, maybe replacing 7DMT which is so short.
> 
> Do we know for sure that only 2 attractions per park will be LL$? We know that guests may only purchase 2 per day, but is it possible that more than 2 will be Individual Purchase?



TT has typically, not always, commanded the longest wait times at EP, over FEA, and then Soarin. It's not our favorite ride, but we typically head there earlier because it can have such long lines, and before afternoon rain potentially.


----------



## Nick6300

meremac said:


> With Genie+, which costs $15/person per day, you can make as many Lightning Lane reservations for attractions included in Genie+ as you want. There is no limit; however, you can only make them one at a time. No official word yet on whether stacking will be allowed. LL$ attractions (super headliner attractions that aren't included in Genie+, like RotR and Remy) will be available for separate purchase but they haven't announced how much those will cost yet, just that the cost will vary by date and attraction.


No official word yet on whether you can make your G+ selection and LL selection at the same time or if you have to choose 1 or the other? This is probably covered on an early page here, sorry.


----------



## Nick6300

MikeandReneePlus5 said:


> I've heard something like $25 per person based on Paris.


I'd have a hard time spending $25 per person for Tron. Having been on it many times, it's just not worth it for me. But I also can't imagine it being something like $10. So maybe we'd have to pay it once/trip to avoid a super long line, with so much hype, heightened by delays.


----------



## Kingoglow

JayMass said:


> LOL! On our last trip it was my 15 yo daughter with the fast fingers on the RotR BG!



I think a lot of families will turn over control of virtual que selection and LL selection over to their teens. If that is the case, then one can argue that the gamified mobile experience might make vacation planning more of a team effort and engage the kids more.


----------



## RoseGold

GoingSince1990 said:


> To avoid cannibalizing the VIP Tour business. I heard somewhere there are 65 tours a day. At an average of 8 hours each and $600 per hour, that amounts to $114 million per year.



The people spending a few grand on the VIP tour aren't the ones worried about $25 for Remy.  They're staying at the Four Seasons or the Ritz, which doesn't even get the EMH2.  Disney hasn't even tried to compete on that level of hotel.

The question is whether it is worth offering a free Remy ride if you stay at All Stars.  Someone is riding Remy. It might as well be All Stars.

Changing line priorities costs Disney nothing.  The question is how Disney extracts money from it, and staying on site is in this math in a way we don't know yet.  FP wasn't making enough money, but it did encourage staying on site.

Ripping away the benefits to on site is a big problem for Disney.  I don't see why they wouldn't add back perks that cost them nothing, like ride queues.  I think that's the next piece of this, along with however it fits into AP pricing.


----------



## JakeAZ

RoseGold said:


> Ripping away the benefits to on site is a big problem for Disney. I don't see why they wouldn't add back perks that cost them nothing, like ride queues. I think that's the next piece of this, along with however it fits into AP pricing.


As long as people fill those hotels rooms at rack rate with a gutting of on-site benefits, you're not going to see anything added.


----------



## danissmart

JayMass said:


> I think it will be closer to the old FP system with the paper tickets and kiosks. Nothing was guaranteed back then.


But those things weren’t extra costs


----------



## RoseGold

JakeAZ said:


> As long as people fill those hotels rooms at rack rate with a gutting of on-site benefits, you're not going to see anything added.



Jambo and Port Orleans are still closed.  Poly and Contemporary have been pretty much completely closed since Covid.  Yet, Disney is now running room discounts.  And that's with ME still running.  So, no, I wouldn't say the rooms are currently filled at rack rate.  Pretty much the only deluxe open is GF.

I at least understood cutting ME was saving Disney money.  Genie may or may not be, if it cuts against staying on site.  I would expect Genie to throw onsite a bone.  Haven't seen that bone yet, but I do expect it.


----------



## JakeAZ

RoseGold said:


> Jambo and Port Orleans are still closed.  Poly and Contemporary have been pretty much completely closed since Covid.  Yet, Disney is now running room discounts.  And that's with ME still running.  So, no, I wouldn't say the rooms are currently filled at rack rate.  Pretty much the only deluxe open is GF.
> 
> I at least understood cutting ME was saving Disney money.  Genie may or may not be, if it cuts against staying on site.  I would expect Genie to throw onsite a bone.  Haven't seen that bone yet, but I do expect it.


Disney has all their eggs in the "October 1st and after" bucket.  Very slim availability from then through the end of the year.  This is the slow time before the storm.  I just looked at our week in November and there is nothing.  Hotel or DVC side.  Not a single room.

While you may eventually see something from Genie thrown at on-site, IMO I don't see that until, at least, all the pend up Disney demand dies down.


----------



## Jrb1979

RoseGold said:


> Jambo and Port Orleans are still closed.  Poly and Contemporary have been pretty much completely closed since Covid.  Yet, Disney is now running room discounts.  And that's with ME still running.  So, no, I wouldn't say the rooms are currently filled at rack rate.  Pretty much the only deluxe open is GF.
> 
> I at least understood cutting ME was saving Disney money.  Genie may or may not be, if it cuts against staying on site.  I would expect Genie to throw onsite a bone.  Haven't seen that bone yet, but I do expect it.


You probably aren't getting it free for being on site. Best you will get is being able to book you first LL at 7am will every one else has to do it on e I'm the park. The days of free FP are over.


----------



## StarrySkye21

JakeAZ said:


> Disney has all their eggs in the "October 1st and after" bucket.  Very slim availability from then through the end of the year.  This is the slow time before the storm.  I just looked at our week in November and there is nothing.  Hotel or DVC side.  Not a single room.
> 
> While you may eventually see something from Genie thrown at on-site, IMO I don't see that until, at least, all the pend up Disney demand dies down.



there is a possibility that you are seeing nothing available in November because they are moving around guests from other resorts because of possibly delaying reopening  (that’s the rumor with many people getting upgraded out of ASMusic for their trips in the next few months. It appears that most if not all hotels are not available for booking until the middle of December. Whether or not they are in fact delaying reopening some resorts or they are just overly booked is yet to be known.


----------



## JakeAZ

StarrySkye21 said:


> there is a possibility that you are seeing nothing available in November because they are moving around guests from AS Music because of possibly delaying reopening until December (that’s the rumor with many people getting upgraded out of ASM for their trips in the next few months. It appears that all the hotels are not available for booking until the middle of December. Whether or not that’s from that rumor or that they are just that busy is yet to be known.


Possibly.  But the DVC side has been sold out for pretty much all of October / November / December.

But even if they are limiting availability to move guests around, that is just more reason for them not to be offering any discounts or added on-site benefits.

They are either booked or they need the rooms to move people.  Either way, they are not hard up to fill the rooms that are available.


----------



## SusanDK

RoseGold said:


> Poly and Contemporary have been pretty much completely closed since Covid.  Pretty much the only deluxe open is GF.



Poly looked open a few weeks ago. We walked from MK along the walkway past the GF and Poly back to the TTC one evening several weeks ago, stopping at the Poly beach to watch the MK fireworks. The pool area and beach were packed. I wouldn't think the pool would have been open if the hotel weren't open to guests, although admit we didn't walk through the lobby.


----------



## RoseGold

JakeAZ said:


> But the DVC side has been sold out for pretty much all of October / November / December.



DVC will continue to stay booked 365/24/7 in every category.  It has an extra year of points floating around and was running close to capacity before the extra points.  The cash side matters a lot more to Disney, and Poly/Jambo/ Contemporary are just now opening.

The deluxe EMH2 are something, but I hope to see more.

I would and have given advice to stay off site when the perks have all been taken.


----------



## Nick6300

StarrySkye21 said:


> there is a possibility that you are seeing nothing available in November because they are moving around guests from other resorts because of possibly delaying reopening  (that’s the rumor with many people getting upgraded out of ASMusic for their trips in the next few months. It appears that most if not all hotels are not available for booking until the middle of December. Whether or not they are in fact delaying reopening some resorts or they are just overly booked is yet to be known.



I think I recall recent upgrades from Pop to CBR. Would Music guests really receive an upgrade if opening gets delayed into Dec., as rumored? Aren't Movies, Pop, AoA open (a lot of Value still open)? I guess Pop/AoA would be considered an upgrade since it's a little more expensive and much more popular because of skyliner. Is it possible they just refund you and not upgrade or not a lot of precedence for that?


----------



## elgerber

Nick6300 said:


> I think I recall recent upgrades from Pop to CBR. Would Music guests really receive an upgrade if opening gets delayed into Dec., as rumored? Aren't Movies, Pop, AoA open (a lot of Value still open)? I guess Pop/AoA would be considered an upgrade since it's a little more expensive and much more popular because of skyliner. Is it possible they just refund you and not upgrade or not a lot of precedence for that?


I got a call yesterday for my ASMusic stay in mid October, wanting to move me to CBR.  I was cancelling it anyway, so I told her to go ahead and do that, but the calls are going out for Music.


----------



## StarrySkye21

Nick6300 said:


> I think I recall recent upgrades from Pop to CBR. Would Music guests really receive an upgrade if opening gets delayed into Dec., as rumored? Aren't Movies, Pop, AoA open (a lot of Value still open)? I guess Pop/AoA would be considered an upgrade since it's a little more expensive and much more popular because of skyliner. Is it possible they just refund you and not upgrade or not a lot of precedence for that?



Over the past few days there have been several posts on these forums of people  being upgraded from Music to AOA or CBR. Most have reservations in September and October. At the moment, none of the value resorts (or any resorts for that matter) seem to have openings until mid December.


----------



## Miffy

I haven't read all 91 pages, so perhaps this has already been answered . . . but . . . if anyone knows the answer to this:

If I have G+ and I use it to get in the LL for HM (I just picked that at random), then after I ride HM can I make another G+ LL for HM? Or is it one LL per ride per day only?

Likewise, can I use both IAS picks for the same ride?

Thanks if anyone knows the answer to these pressing problems!


----------



## JakeAZ

RoseGold said:


> The deluxe EMH2 are something, but I hope to see more.
> 
> I would and have given advice to stay off site when the perks have all been taken.


100%

Deluxe hours are nice, but the leaving out of HS and AK isn't great.

Off-site is more room, cheaper price and everything else (for the most part) is the same price (tickets, Genie, food, souvenirs, etc).


----------



## Turksmom

Miffy said:


> I haven't read all 91 pages, so perhaps this has already been answered . . . but . . . if anyone knows the answer to this:
> 
> If I have G+ and I use it to get in the LL for HM (I just picked that at random), then after I ride HM can I make another G+ LL for HM? Or is it one LL per ride per day only?
> 
> Likewise, can I use both IAS picks for the same ride?
> 
> Thanks if anyone knows the answer to these pressing problems!


IAS can't be for the same ride on the same day. I haven't seen G+ addressed, but it was never limited to one a day with any of the other FP/MP iterations, so I'm assuming you can do that


----------



## JakeAZ

Miffy said:


> If I have G+ and I use it to get in the LL for HM (I just picked that at random), then after I ride HM can I make another G+ LL for HM? Or is it one LL per ride per day only?


I haven't seen a restriction for this in any of the announcements.



Miffy said:


> Likewise, can I use both IAS picks for the same ride?


I believe you can only purchase each ride once, per day.


----------



## Miffy

Thanks, everyone!


----------



## jknc

JakeAZ said:


> 100%
> 
> Deluxe hours are nice, but the leaving out of HS and AK isn't great.
> 
> Off-site is more room, cheaper price and everything else (for the most part) is the same price (tickets, Genie, food, souvenirs, etc).



The EMH have been on Monday and Wednesday nights. Utterly useless for someone doing a Thursday to Sunday trip.


----------



## Jrb1979

jknc said:


> The EMH have been on Monday and Wednesday nights. Utterly useless for someone doing a Thursday to Sunday trip.


It's probably like that on purpose. It's easier for Disney to fill rooms on a weekend then early weekdays.


----------



## cakebaker

jknc said:


> The EMH have been on Monday and Wednesday nights. Utterly useless for someone doing a Thursday to Sunday trip.



They aren't adding them for our convenience, they're adding them to entice people to book Deluxe. Thurs-Sun is most likely a much more popular trip span so of course they'd put them at the front end of the week. We'll just make sure we book for that time frame to get them both- most likely a Wed. thru Wed. to catch the MK twice.


----------



## Nick6300

elgerber said:


> I got a call yesterday for my ASMusic stay in mid October, wanting to move me to CBR.  I was cancelling it anyway, so I told her to go ahead and do that, but the calls are going out for Music.


That's awesome! So we're currently double booked for Music, from disney (which only allowed us pay for 1 night) and from Orbitz (6 nights, same dates). Didn't cancel Disney because I was hoping to upgrade to AP and potentially see about a discount. But since Orbitz was a bit cheaper maybe I need to hurry up and cancel the Disney booking, just not sure there are any issues with Orbitz being a 3rd party booking?

Would be cool to be offered CBR, I haven't stayed there.


----------



## Nick6300

StarrySkye21 said:


> Over the past few days there have been several posts on these forums of people  being upgraded from Music to AOA or CBR. Most have reservations in September and October. At the moment, none of the value resorts (or any resorts for that matter) seem to have openings until mid December.


Yes, it's definitely been slim pickings. We only picked up Music that first am it became available, wanted SD or Pop. We're 1st week of Nov., so bit longer before any relocation, if it happens. Yesterday, we looked, as we do periodically, and there wasn't anything available at all, even Deluxe for our stay.


----------



## quandrea

meremac said:


> To (hopefully) answer multiple questions, I _think _this is how it will work (although there was some mention of potential tweaks before launch, so take it with a grain of salt until it's officially released). If you are on onsite guest, you can do the following at 7am: join Virtual Queues, make your first Genie+ reservation, make an LL$ reservation. Offsite guests can join Virtual Queues at 7am, but they cannot make Genie+ or LL$ reservations until they physically enter a theme park. Expanding: Genie+ and LL$ will be separate. You can take advantage of one, both, or neither. You can only make a maximum of two LL$ reservations per day. It's possible you will be able to make both LL$ reservations at the same time at 7am, but that wasn't entirely clear. There are no limits to the number of Genie+ reservations you can make each day. However, you will only be able to make one Genie+ reservation at a time. It's possible that you will ultimately be able to hold more than one Genie+ reservation if the system works like DL's MaxPass did (when making a MaxPass, a notification popped up that you would be able to make another one either after scanning in for your current MaxPass reservation or at "x time"...and sometimes "x time" was sooner than your current MaxPass reservation window). That part wasn't clear though.
> 
> So here's what I'm thinking a day at MK could _possibly _look like for an onsite guest.
> 
> 7am: Make Genie+ reservation for BTMR with a 9:30am-10:30am return window. Purchase LL$ for 7DMT with a 10:30am-11:30am window.
> 8:30am: Enter MK for Early Entry (assuming the park opens at 9am). Ride Space standby.
> 8:50am?: Ride PP standby.
> 9:00am: First offsite guests coming into the park and making first Genie+ reservation (onsite already has done 2 attractions).
> 9:15am-10:15am (this is generous ~ might not take this long): Off PP. Ride 1-2 attractions standby.
> 9:30am: Make second Genie+ reservation if new window has opened and stacking is allowed.
> 10:15am: Ride BTMR with Genie+.
> 10:30am: Ride second Genie+ attraction if stacking was allowed, then make another. If stacking isn't allowed, make second Genie+.
> 11:00am: Ride 7DMT with LL$.
> 11:15am: Spend the next few hours doing "Anytime Attractions" like PhilharMagic/Monsters Inc/HoP/CoP, lunch, working in Genie+ ressies.
> 
> That would mean on onsite guest could potentially do 7-8 popular attractions in less than 3 hours. It would free up the afternoon for pool time, Park Hopping, exploring MK leisurely, etc. If a guest doesn't want to do LL$, there would be ways to work around that too. Of course, we'll have to see exactly how this all pans out. But this is one potential plan I came up with while I was taking notes during the training yesterday.


The thing is…I could do all this in three hours without buying the Genie or IAS in the “before times.” And without early entry.


----------



## Nick6300

Jrb1979 said:


> It's probably like that on purpose. It's easier for Disney to fill rooms on a weekend then early weekdays.


And the Mon. & Wed. late hours encourages a week long stay too. At least MK was 1 of the 2, probably so that it's not entirely useless. EP, though, is already the late park, with less ride attractions (not counting the several little shows, things at the Seas), and encourages more dining/F&W spending. While a lot of people would have liked HS as a choice, I think even AK would have been nice since it closes earlier, and it's been a while since we've seen Pandora at night, riden EE, Kali, Safari in the dark.


----------



## Nick6300

cakebaker said:


> They aren't adding them for our convenience, they're adding them to entice people to book Deluxe. Thurs-Sun is most likely a much more popular trip span so of course they'd put them at the front end of the week. We'll just make sure we book for that time frame to get them both- most likely a Wed. thru Wed. to catch the MK twice.



Your flights may be a bit cheaper too, if flying.


----------



## ZellyB

cakebaker said:


> They aren't adding them for our convenience, they're adding them to entice people to book Deluxe. Thurs-Sun is most likely a much more popular trip span so of course they'd put them at the front end of the week. We'll just make sure we book for that time frame to get them both- most likely a Wed. thru Wed. to catch the MK twice.



Unless you are like us and Wednesday is your travel day.  We don't have AP and buy the military tickets so we don't go to the parks on travel days, so sadly we will miss out on both the MK days.  Which is a bummer, but whatever, just the way it is this time around but I'm disappointed regardless.    I also agree that to me late extra hours at Epcot aren't really very valuable.


----------



## cakebaker

ZellyB said:


> Unless you are like us and Wednesday is your travel day.  We don't have AP and buy the military tickets so we don't go to the parks on travel days, so sadly we will miss out on both the MK days.  Which is a bummer, but whatever, just the way it is this time around but I'm disappointed regardless.    I also agree that to me late extra hours at Epcot aren't really very valuable.



No doubt, it won't work for everyone, nothing ever does. But I understand why they set the days when they did. We normally have AP's but didn't activate them because we knew we weren't returning after our July trip for a good long time- paying for length of stay tickets was painful, but made no sense to waste the AP's. At least you do get the military discount!


----------



## jknc

cakebaker said:


> They aren't adding them for our convenience, they're adding them to entice people to book Deluxe. Thurs-Sun is most likely a much more popular trip span so of course they'd put them at the front end of the week. We'll just make sure we book for that time frame to get them both- most likely a Wed. thru Wed. to catch the MK twice.


So, room rates are less for Thursday-Sunday nights, right?


----------



## ZellyB

cakebaker said:


> No doubt, it won't work for everyone, nothing ever does. But I understand why they set the days when they did. We normally have AP's but didn't activate them because we knew we weren't returning after our July trip for a good long time- paying for length of stay tickets was painful, but made no sense to waste the AP's. *At least you do get the military discount!*



Oh absolutely!  We are thrilled that we get it and equally so that we can stay at Shades of Green and be included in the perks of the added hours.  Although they've not yet announced if they are renewing the discounted park tickets yet for 2022, so still crossing our fingers on that one.  Like I said, I understand why they did it, just wished we could take advantage.  But maybe next time.


----------



## Queen2PrincessG

How would people feel if Genie+ was “free” for Deluxe hotel guest?


----------



## CWTC

Queen2PrincessG said:


> How would people feel if Genie+ was “free” for Deluxe hotel guest?


I would think that it would be spectacular to have it included for deluxe/DVC guests. Guess where we stay based on my response.


----------



## JakeAZ

Queen2PrincessG said:


> How would people feel if Genie+ was “free” for Deluxe hotel guest?


The answer to that question will be 100% based on the type of accommodations the person answering usually gets.

For me, Deluxe is crazy over priced right now.  I'd never pay rack rate, or close to it.  Renting points is the way we're going in November.

Tossing Genie in "for free" would be nice, but I'd love to see HS and AK added to the extra hours mix.


----------



## Disneylover99

Queen2PrincessG said:


> How would people feel if Genie+ was “free” for Deluxe hotel guest?


I’d be fine with that. It may encourage some families who normally book moderate resorts to try out a deluxe.


----------



## Queen2PrincessG

JakeAZ said:


> The answer to that question will be 100% based on the type of accommodations the person answering usually gets.
> 
> For me, Deluxe is crazy over priced right now.  I'd never pay rack rate, or close to it.  Renting points is the way we're going in November.
> 
> Tossing Genie in "for free" would be nice, but I'd love to see HS and AK added to the extra hours mix.


Yes, I’d love to see that too.


----------



## CWTC

JakeAZ said:


> Tossing Genie in "for free" would be nice, but I'd love to see HS and AK added to the extra hours mix.


Yeah. That would be a huge upgrade.


----------



## JakeAZ

CWTC said:


> Yeah. That would be a huge upgrade.


It just makes sense.

Space them out so that you'd have to stay for a week, in Deluxe, to be able to hit them all.


----------



## bethbuchall

Queen2PrincessG said:


> How would people feel if Genie+ was “free” for Deluxe hotel guest?


It wouldn’t bother me, but it wouldn’t entice me to stay deluxe either. If just my husband and I go, that would be $30/night (and there would be days that we wouldn’t necessarily pay for it, so not really even $30/night). We generally drive, so deluxe parking is $5-10 more per night. Now we’re “saving” even less.  Then our children are all over 18, so to pay the extra adult charge for deluxe really cuts down any value to “free” Genie+.


----------



## MrsPete

MikeOhio said:


> The $15 per person will only let you book tier 2 attractions.  Tier 1 attractions will be priced separately based on surge pricing.


1.  That's money grubbing. 
2.  That's so complicated.


----------



## ThistleMae

meremac said:


> Correct. They are separate and won't impact one another. I actually just finished a Genie training session. Genie+ is $15/person per day and includes unlimited Lightning Lane reservations for select attractions, but these reservations can only be made one at at time (onsite Resort Guests can make their first Genie+ reservation starting at 7am). A few super headliner attractions at each park will not be included in Genie+. Guests can access those by 1) Getting in the standby line (or joining a Virtual Queue for the few attractions that won't have standby, like RoTR and Rat); OR 2) Purchasing separate Lightning Lane access. For these super headliner attractions, there will be a limit of 2 Lightning Lane purchases per guest per day. Again, onsite Resort Guest can make their first purchase at 7am.


I wonder how the ala carte purchases are going to work with park reservations and park hopping?  I would imagine you wouldn't be able to purchase a FOP if your park reservation is for MK.  And if you can't PH until 2 p.m. how will that work when booking ala carte, will genie not give you an option if you are not reserved in a certain park?  I thought I was really getting how this will work, but not sure about some features.


----------



## cakebaker

Queen2PrincessG said:


> How would people feel if Genie+ was “free” for Deluxe hotel guest?



I don't think anyone would turn it down. It seems like an easy promotion for them, free Genie+ with onsite stay, like they do free dining. Not something I'd be thrilled about, I much prefer a significant room discount and for a deluxe stay, $60 a night off (the cost of Genie+ for 4) isn't much of a discount. But I'd certainly take it.

Make it a standard perk and then I'd be more impressed.


----------



## Disneylover99

cakebaker said:


> I don't think anyone would turn it down. It seems like an easy promotion for them, free Genie+ with onsite stay, like they do free dining. Not something I'd be thrilled about, I much prefer a significant room discount and for a deluxe stay, $60 a night off (the cost of Genie+ for 4) isn't much of a discount. But I'd certainly take it.
> 
> Make it a standard perk and then I'd be more impressed.


Yes - Free as a perk? Great!
Free in lieu of a room discount? No. Not worth it. Gimme the room discount.


----------



## cakebaker

Disneylover99 said:


> Yes - Free as a perk? Great!
> Free in lieu of a room discount? No. Not worth it. Gimme the room discount.



Absolutely. I really don't like across the board room incentives. "Free" dining at rack rate when you're packing 4 adults into a value room- good deal."Free" dining when you're staying Deluxe with 2 adults?...not great at all. Just give me my AP 40% off deluxe discount and I'm happy to pay for things myself oop.


----------



## meremac

ThistleMae said:


> I wonder how the ala carte purchases are going to work with park reservations and park hopping?  I would imagine you wouldn't be able to purchase a FOP if your park reservation is for MK.  And if you can't PH until 2 p.m. how will that work when booking ala carte, will genie not give you an option if you are not reserved in a certain park?  I thought I was really getting how this will work, but not sure about some features.



Yeah I'm not 100% clear on how that will work either. There are a lot of details that haven't been announced (and maybe haven't even been ironed out) yet.


----------



## cakebaker

ThistleMae said:


> I wonder how the ala carte purchases are going to work with park reservations and park hopping?  I would imagine you wouldn't be able to purchase a FOP if your park reservation is for MK.  And if you can't PH until 2 p.m. how will that work when booking ala carte, will genie not give you an option if you are not reserved in a certain park?  I thought I was really getting how this will work, but not sure about some features.



I believe it was the DPB  announcement said you would be able to reserve in multiple parks if you had a park hopper. Also found this:

"Since the Premium attractions are limited, these two reservations can be at multiple parks (provided that you have Park Hopper.)" "https://mickeyblog.com/2021/08/19/disney-genie-disney-genie-and-lightning-lanes-explains/


----------



## _19disnA

meremac said:


> Yeah I'm not 100% clear on how that will work either. There are a lot of details that haven't been announced (and maybe haven't even been ironed out) yet.



Same here, it seems they rushed to rollout Genie before all of the details were worked out.  Not sure that accomplished anything but helped to create confusion.  Think it would have been better to announce ALL aspects of how it will work at the same time.


----------



## cakebaker

_19disnA said:


> Same here, it seems they rushed to rollout Genie before all of the details were worked out.  Not sure that accomplished anything but helped to create confusion.  Think it would have been better to announce ALL aspects of how it will work at the same time.



I think they have the details worked out, they just aren't putting them all out at once. That's almost always how they announce any major changes- bits of information at a time. But this one, they did actually give some information on. Still, I doubt we'll get much more until they announce when it's going to start.


----------



## old feller

JakeAZ said:


> If this holds true, it's a huge mistake.  Just stay off-site and use the savings to pay for this


That is a good way to off set costs...they are giving a half hour early  entry to  resort  guests


----------



## old feller

JakeAZ said:


> My bad...I didn't see this was about the free version.


So.eone said they can use this new genie+.to spread out the crowds


----------



## disneyseniors

Queen2PrincessG said:


> How would people feel if Genie+ was “free” for Deluxe hotel guest?



I think it would be unfair to all the others who stay on site.  It should be free to everyone, not just the deluxes, IMO


----------



## Einstein509

So I finally received a response after seven days to the email I sent WDW about my displeasure with this new Genie+ system.  The last paragraph of the email read:

_"We are always evaluating and refining our offerings. This philosophy is in keeping with Walt Disney’s vision for continuing to grow and evolve, giving Guests a mixture of familiar and new experiences with each visit. It is clear that you are passionate about our Resort, and I am glad that you took the time to share your perspective with us. Our Guests’ feedback is vital throughout our Resort in preserving the magical experience that we so strongly wish to deliver. Please know that your comments are being shared with the appropriate Leadership as we continue to explore new ways for Guests to enjoy their visits in the future."_

It may be just me reading into it too much, but I think that with the tremendous negative feedback on this rollout, that Disney will likely refine how this thing goes live come Fall 2021.  Perhaps they will throw a bone to APs, DVC, or Deluxe Hotel Guests.  I just don't see this rolling out the way they originally announced it since the backlash is pretty strong.


----------



## OhDannyBoy

Just for sake of conversation, when does everyone think this thing is gonna actually roll out?


----------



## Jrb1979

Einstein509 said:


> So I finally received a response after seven days to the email I sent WDW about my displeasure with this new Genie+ system.  The last paragraph of the email read:
> 
> _"We are always evaluating and refining our offerings. This philosophy is in keeping with Walt Disney’s vision for continuing to grow and evolve, giving Guests a mixture of familiar and new experiences with each visit. It is clear that you are passionate about our Resort, and I am glad that you took the time to share your perspective with us. Our Guests’ feedback is vital throughout our Resort in preserving the magical experience that we so strongly wish to deliver. Please know that your comments are being shared with the appropriate Leadership as we continue to explore new ways for Guests to enjoy their visits in the future."_
> 
> It may be just me reading into it too much, but I think that with the tremendous negative feedback on this rollout, that Disney will likely refine how this thing goes live come Fall 2021.  Perhaps they will throw a bone to APs, DVC, or Deluxe Hotel Guests.  I just don't see this rolling out the way they originally announced it since the backlash is pretty strong.


I do. If you think they are going to give this free to on site guests then I have a bridge to sell you. At best you will get to book your first ride before regular guests.


----------



## _19disnA

Einstein509 said:


> So I finally received a response after seven days to the email I sent WDW about my displeasure with this new Genie+ system.



It reads to me like any standard 'boiler plate' reply from a complaint department.  Says they appreciate your input, thanks you for writing and makes generic comments about looking for ways to improve in the future.  I would imagine Disney has a number of these they send out depending on the nature of someone's complaint.  This one reads like the 'Genie complaint reply'.  Doesn't mean anything will change.


----------



## SusanDK

And if they give it free to onsite guests, don't you think they will build it into the rate? Be careful what you wish for because room rates might increase by the equivalent of $15 x maximum number of guests permitted per room. Where will that leave guests who are still trying a bit to stay on a budget by waiting for a room discount and not buying Genie+? Or what about those who stay at the resorts and don't go to the parks every day, or sometimes not even at all. They would be paying for Genie+ while not using it.

Edited to add: I could see perhaps special offers with rates inclusive of Genie+ from time to time.


----------



## bookgirl2632

Disney knew there would be backlash.  They also know that the majority will complain, still go, and probably purchase Genie+.  In the long run, they simply don’t care about any backlash.


----------



## katmigordon

What exactly does this mean though?



princessfionasmom said:


> Found the answer to my questions, here it is if anyone else is interested:
> We are also making some enhancements to our Disability Access Service (DAS) program, including new options to enroll in the program pre-arrival and for DAS participants to select attractions directly in the app. These options will be available in addition to our existing, in-person DAS program. Visit our Services for Guests with Disabilities page DisneyWorld.com and Disneyland.comfor more details.
> 
> https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2021/08/introducing-disney-genie/


----------



## TioAdis78

BroadwayHermione5 said:


> Ok there are two things concerning me:
> 1) the “fall” date. I really don’t want to be there when the change occurs.
> 2) I need someone to explain to me the difference because this is confusing. $15 per person per day doesn’t sound horrible imho. But then adding on the other rides and such I’m so confused.


You need to pay Genie+ at $15/person to be able to schedule Lighting Lane return times. However, big ticket attractions, the ones with the longest lines, like 7DMT, or rides that require a boarding group, like Rise, will be made available separately, whether you purchase Genie+ or not, with dynamic pricing that will vary. It’s the sort of thing that’s easier to use than explain


----------



## katmigordon

For those going with a friend, can one set the FP while the other gets boarding passes?



lukemorenus said:


> So... how do I get a ROTR boarding group and select my first lightning lane attraction... both at exactly 7:00 am?


----------



## Heather07438

katmigordon said:


> For those going with a friend, can one set the FP while the other gets boarding passes?


Can't see why not.  MDE always let people manage their group together.

With Lightening Lane individual paid attractions opening at 7am I think people are imagining a problem that won't exist in reality.  First, not a high percent of guests will purchase and second, most will wait till later to see how their days goes and if it's even needed. Won't be a fraction of what FP+ distribution was.  I'd bet everything I own there won't be a crucial need to make those selections at 7am; there won't be some crazy 7am LL+ frenzy buying up all the 'good' slots.

7am competition for genie+ might be a little tougher but still absolutely no need to do right at the 7am mark.  The difference between choosing at 7am or 7:15am won't be life changing.  Even waiting until 9am by no means will shut somebody out.  Again, not everybody will be buying these upgrades everyday.  Both paid options will be totally different than FP+ distribution.


----------



## mi*vida*loca

So I’m going with my teenage daughter. Do I have her login into my MDE account or should she create her own? I’ve always done the MDE thing.


----------



## Heather07438

mi*vida*loca said:


> So I’m going with my teenage daughter. Do I have her login into my MDE account or should she create her own? I’ve always done the MDE thing.


I've done it both ways and it didnt seem to make a difference.  Sometimes the 3 of us all just used DH's account and simultaneously logged in.  Sometimes I'd used my separate account while we were linked as a party.

We did notice that sometimes later in the day it helped to reboot the app.  Usually that happened when we were all looking for 4th FP+ together.  Sometimes it would start lagging and a reboot helped.  Might be the same with Genie+.


----------



## katmigordon

This is capitalism at work, not socialism.
Free fast pass was more socialism at work.

This is all pay to play, to he who can afford the most toys, the most joy will be given - driven by supply and demand.



Queen2PrincessG said:


> It will be interesting to see if they offer it as a perk for deluxe guest. Needless to say this is a plan money grab. Socialism in the park on full display now.


----------



## Heather07438

SusanDK said:


> Edited to add: I could see perhaps special offers with rates inclusive of Genie+ from time to time.


Very possible.  They'd love to offer this instead of free food.  Free food dates are generally slower times anyway.


----------



## katmigordon

Because this deal is a lemon?



sbbwdw said:


> Why do I feel like the guy in this Genie Disney Park video is trying to sell me a used car?


----------



## DebbieB

Einstein509 said:


> So I finally received a response after seven days to the email I sent WDW about my displeasure with this new Genie+ system.  The last paragraph of the email read:
> 
> _"We are always evaluating and refining our offerings. This philosophy is in keeping with Walt Disney’s vision for continuing to grow and evolve, giving Guests a mixture of familiar and new experiences with each visit. It is clear that you are passionate about our Resort, and I am glad that you took the time to share your perspective with us. Our Guests’ feedback is vital throughout our Resort in preserving the magical experience that we so strongly wish to deliver. Please know that your comments are being shared with the appropriate Leadership as we continue to explore new ways for Guests to enjoy their visits in the future."_
> 
> It may be just me reading into it too much, but I think that with the tremendous negative feedback on this rollout, that Disney will likely refine how this thing goes live come Fall 2021.  Perhaps they will throw a bone to APs, DVC, or Deluxe Hotel Guests.  I just don't see this rolling out the way they originally announced it since the backlash is pretty strong.



I think they expected the negative feedback.  I don’t think they will change it before trying it out and see how many people go for it.

As far as Deluxe, I think the evening EMH was “the bone”.


----------



## dvc lover 1970

Heather07438 said:


> Can't see why not.  MDE always let people manage their group together.
> 
> With Lightening Lane individual paid attractions opening at 7am I think people are imagining a problem that won't exist in reality.  First, not a high percent of guests will purchase and second, most will wait till later to see how their days goes and if it's even needed. Won't be a fraction of what FP+ distribution was.  I'd bet everything I own there won't be a crucial need to make those selections at 7am; there won't be some crazy 7am LL+ frenzy buying up all the 'good' slots.
> 
> 7am competition for genie+ might be a little tougher but still absolutely no need to do right at the 7am mark.  The difference between choosing at 7am or 7:15am won't be life changing.  Even waiting until 9am by no means will shut somebody out.  Again, not everybody will be buying these upgrades everyday.  Both paid options will be totally different than FP+ distribution.


Not sure how it's different than FP+. With Paper FPs some rides were out of FPs by noon time. We dont get to the park until 1. So if I pay for genie plus and dont go to the park until 1 and cannot make another sele tion until I use my FP, I might only get 1 or 2 FPs for the day where is the value?? Are they limiting genie plus at each hour mark?


----------



## Heather07438

dvc lover 1970 said:


> Not sure how it's different than FP+. With Paper FPs some rides were out of FPs by noon time.


Everybody was entitled to pull FP and FP+. 

Genie+ is a paid option that not everyone will buy. And the people who do buy won't necessarily be buying everyday of their trip.

eta- plus the system can regulate time return windows to spread distribution across the whole day and adjust on the fly.


----------



## NuJoy

()


----------



## ThistleMae

I'm very worried that Genie + with park hopping won't be worth it because the more popular rides will be gone by late afternoon and evening.  I can remember trying to get additional 4th FP's at night and nothing was available to get.


----------



## scrappinginontario

Heather07438 said:


> Very possible.  They'd love to offer this instead of free food.  Free food dates are generally slower times anyway.


Each family has preferences that work for them.  Personally I'd far more see Free Dining return (if/when the DDP returns) as I can barely feed us 2 snacks for $15/day.  Free dining would free up money I would normally spend on food to purchase Genie+ and LL.


----------



## Turksmom

NuJoy said:


> Another thing, FP+ allowed one to book all their rides for the evening of where one intended to park hop, contributing to the unavailability of fast passes.  It appears G+ will only allow the reserving of rides for the park one has a park reservation in.


The official Disney announcement said it can be used across multiple parks with the hopper


----------



## Heather07438

scrappinginontario said:


> Each family has preferences that work for them.  Personally I'd far more see Free Dining return (if/when the DDP returns) as I can barely feed us 2 snacks for $15/day.  Free dining would free up money I would normally spend on food to purchase Genie+ and LL.


Me too!    We love(d) free food.  But from WDW's end I can see them loving to offer packages with 'free' g+ in place of some of the food offers.  Food costs them something, g+ not so much.


----------



## NuJoy

()


----------



## ThistleMae

NuJoy said:


> That is only indicated for the LL$.


If they want folks to continue to pay more to park hop, it would behoove them to make sure the Genie + will work with PH, wouldn't you think?


----------



## cantsayNolaf

Has there been information on the ability to split your family/group/party for Lighting Lane designations? Certainly not everyone tours together right?


----------



## JakeAZ

ThistleMae said:


> I'm very worried that Genie + with park hopping won't be worth it because the more popular rides will be gone by late afternoon and evening.  I can remember trying to get additional 4th FP's at night and nothing was available to get.


Just remember, everyone doesn't start with 3 anymore and not everyone will buy Genie+.  Even if they do, it's 1 at a time.


----------



## cantsayNolaf

JakeAZ said:


> Just remember, everyone doesn't start with 3 anymore and not everyone will buy Genie+.  Even if they do, it's 1 at a time.





cantsayNolaf said:


> Has there been information on the ability to split your family/group/party for Lighting Lane designations? Certainly not everyone tours together right?



So is it one at a time per party or can my daughter pick Mine Train while I pick Space Mountain?


----------



## ThistleMae

JakeAZ said:


> Just remember, everyone doesn't start with 3 anymore and not everyone will buy Genie+.  Even if they do, it's 1 at a time.


I would think it would have to be 1 at a time for it to work with PH, and it will force the G+ folks to choose the next available because if you were allowed to choose later times, say afternoon, then those slots would fill up.  And choosing next available will move people around the park more strategically.  But there are some folks who feel Disney may allow you to book another Genie+ after a window of 90 minutes to 160 minutes.  I guess we shall see.  I just know I'll be all over these boards once its a go, to see how it really works!


----------



## NuJoy

()


----------



## JakeAZ

cantsayNolaf said:


> So is it one at a time per party or can my daughter pick Mine Train while I pick Space Mountain?


You can both pick separately.


----------



## JakeAZ

ThistleMae said:


> I would think it would have to be 1 at a time for it to work with PH, and it will force the G+ folks to choose the next available because if you were allowed to choose later times, say afternoon, then those slots would fill up.  And choosing next available will move people around the park more strategically.  But there are some folks who feel Disney may allow you to book another Genie+ after a window of 90 minutes to 160 minutes.  I guess we shall see.  I just know I'll be all over these boards once its a go, to see how it really works!


I'm one of those who think you'll be able to choose again after 120 minutes.  But, I just don't see things booking up really fast (except for maybe on the most crowded days).  Nothing is pre-booked and not everyone will buy Genie.


----------



## ThistleMae

JakeAZ said:


> I'm one of those who think you'll be able to choose again after 120 minutes.  But, I just don't see things booking up really fast (except for maybe on the most crowded days).  Nothing is pre-booked and not everyone will buy Genie.


I hope you're right but also from what I read, LL won't be available for Genie+ hopping until 2 p.m. when you're able to hop.  I'm nervous that there will be nothing available that would be worth paying the extra $ 15 for at that point.  Time will tell.


----------



## quandrea

Einstein509 said:


> So I finally received a response after seven days to the email I sent WDW about my displeasure with this new Genie+ system.  The last paragraph of the email read:
> 
> _"We are always evaluating and refining our offerings. This philosophy is in keeping with Walt Disney’s vision for continuing to grow and evolve, giving Guests a mixture of familiar and new experiences with each visit. It is clear that you are passionate about our Resort, and I am glad that you took the time to share your perspective with us. Our Guests’ feedback is vital throughout our Resort in preserving the magical experience that we so strongly wish to deliver. Please know that your comments are being shared with the appropriate Leadership as we continue to explore new ways for Guests to enjoy their visits in the future."_
> 
> It may be just me reading into it too much, but I think that with the tremendous negative feedback on this rollout, that Disney will likely refine how this thing goes live come Fall 2021.  Perhaps they will throw a bone to APs, DVC, or Deluxe Hotel Guests.  I just don't see this rolling out the way they originally announced it since the backlash is pretty strong.


I received the same email—word for word. It seemed like a canned response.


----------



## igrsod

quandrea said:


> I received the same email—word for word. It seemed like a canned response.


That's exactly what I thought.  It was a standard non response response.  Didn't really say anything at all.  Just thanks for writing, we make decisions, we do things, we sell things, we will continue to do that.... buh bye.


----------



## JakeAZ

ThistleMae said:


> I hope you're right but also from what I read, LL won't be available for Genie+ hopping until 2 p.m. when you're able to hop.  I'm nervous that there will be nothing available that would be worth paying the extra $ 15 for at that point.  Time will tell.


True, but you could grab a Genie+ pass for, say Soarin' at 2:30pm, while still at MK.  I think Genie+ usage will very based on what parks people are going to.  I can see heavy usage for MK days and HS days, but not so much for Epcot and AK.

I also think the added Genie+ expense might have people cut down on adding hopper options.


----------



## quandrea

igrsod said:


> That's exactly what I thought.  It was a standard non response response.  Didn't really say anything at all.  Just thanks for writing, we make decisions, we do things, we sell things, we will continue to do that.... buh bye.


Exactly. I think they’ve lost me with this. The loss of value on my ticket is just too profound. What I may do is buy a one day hopper every five years or so and then do a vip tour.


----------



## dvc lover 1970

quandrea said:


> I received the same email—word for word. It seemed like a canned response.


Can you share the email address you sent your email to? I also want to write.


----------



## quandrea

dvc lover 1970 said:


> Can you share the email address you sent your email to? I also want to write.


Here you go.

wdw.guest.communications@disneyworld.com


----------



## btuftee

ThistleMae said:


> I'm very worried that Genie + with park hopping won't be worth it because the more popular rides will be gone by late afternoon and evening.  I can remember trying to get additional 4th FP's at night and nothing was available to get.



In the old days (pre-2013 when FP was all you had, and not all of the "extra" attractions that had to add a FP+ line), you would usually run out of FP on the headliner attractions by early afternoon.  In busy times at parks with few rides (think Epcot before Frozen, and the third theater at Soarin'), you could exhaust all of the Test Track fastpasses by noon, easily.  Or look at DHS, before Star Wars opened, before there was Toy Story land or a third track at TSMM, you'd probably be out of FP for TSMM on a busy day by 11am.  

The good news is that there are a lot more headliner attractions and capacity now, compared with 2013, so we're returning to the old FP model but with more capacity.  The bad news (or maybe just an unknown factor) is that if guests can make a Lightning Lane reservation starting at 7:00am, will all of the LLs get eaten up instantly for the headliners?  That has the potential to be more like FP+ where the non-MK parks would have everyone flood the top 2 or 3 attractions.  The only advantage is that Genie+ and IA$ are paid options that not everyone is going to buy, whereas every guest got FP+ reservations to make.  That's probably why Genie+ won't cover the top two attractions at each park, and you'll have to buy those slots as IA$ or wait in a (probably long) standby line.  It will also depend on when you can make your next LL selection (two hours? three? depending on on-site vs. off-site?).  If you log on at 8:30am and see LL for Haunted Mansion at 3:00pm, you'd have to think about it if it meant you couldn't make another LL selection until much later.  I think that's really the big piece of info that Disney is still sitting on - what's the "timeout" until you can get a new LL reservation?  And, of course, what's the final list of which attractions have Genie+, and which have IA$.  

We'll all have to see how it plays out, but I could expect that most people will fire up the app when they wake up (probably right at 7am for a lot of folks, though you might sleep in if you're not aiming at the headliner attractions before evening time), pick their top LL choice for the park, maybe add an IA$, and head out.  I could see us planning a MK day like this: wake up, buy an IA$ for 7DMT, reserve an LL for Peter Pan, enter MK and go right to Fantasyland, and ride other attractions (maybe give the standby line at 7DMT a go if we get there at rope drop), and then start touring "normally" after that initial burst in Fantasyland.  Back in the pre-2013 days, you'd use the touring plans app with crowdsourced data to see what the FP return times were for various attractions, now you'll just log onto Genie+ and see that Haunted Mansion has a 1:30pm return time, so you grab that, and then head that direction.  Or you see Little Mermaid with a 12:00pm return time and head that way instead.


----------



## ThistleMae

btuftee said:


> In the old days (pre-2013 when FP was all you had, and not all of the "extra" attractions that had to add a FP+ line), you would usually run out of FP on the headliner attractions by early afternoon.  In busy times at parks with few rides (think Epcot before Frozen, and the third theater at Soarin'), you could exhaust all of the Test Track fastpasses by noon, easily.  Or look at DHS, before Star Wars opened, before there was Toy Story land or a third track at TSMM, you'd probably be out of FP for TSMM on a busy day by 11am.
> 
> The good news is that there are a lot more headliner attractions and capacity now, compared with 2013, so we're returning to the old FP model but with more capacity.  The bad news (or maybe just an unknown factor) is that if guests can make a Lightning Lane reservation starting at 7:00am, will all of the LLs get eaten up instantly for the headliners?  That has the potential to be more like FP+ where the non-MK parks would have everyone flood the top 2 or 3 attractions.  The only advantage is that Genie+ and IA$ are paid options that not everyone is going to buy, whereas every guest got FP+ reservations to make.  That's probably why Genie+ won't cover the top two attractions at each park, and you'll have to buy those slots as IA$ or wait in a (probably long) standby line.  It will also depend on when you can make your next LL selection (two hours? three? depending on on-site vs. off-site?).  If you log on at 8:30am and see LL for Haunted Mansion at 3:00pm, you'd have to think about it if it meant you couldn't make another LL selection until much later.  I think that's really the big piece of info that Disney is still sitting on - what's the "timeout" until you can get a new LL reservation?  And, of course, what's the final list of which attractions have Genie+, and which have IA$.
> 
> We'll all have to see how it plays out, but I could expect that most people will fire up the app when they wake up (probably right at 7am for a lot of folks, though you might sleep in if you're not aiming at the headliner attractions before evening time), pick their top LL choice for the park, maybe add an IA$, and head out.  I could see us planning a MK day like this: wake up, buy an IA$ for 7DMT, reserve an LL for Peter Pan, enter MK and go right to Fantasyland, and ride other attractions (maybe give the standby line at 7DMT a go if we get there at rope drop), and then start touring "normally" after that initial burst in Fantasyland.  Back in the pre-2013 days, you'd use the touring plans app with crowdsourced data to see what the FP return times were for various attractions, now you'll just log onto Genie+ and see that Haunted Mansion has a 1:30pm return time, so you grab that, and then head that direction.  Or you see Little Mermaid with a 12:00pm return time and head that way instead.


Thank you for this.  I can definitely see this being a great plan!  Let's see how it plays out.  Fingers crossed that it benefits us and makes things better overall.  I don't like the fact that we would have to purchase IA$, but I may need to if I don't get a boarding pass for those rides.  I don't really care about ROR but I do care about FOP, so depending on prices being reasonable versus crazy we shall see.


----------



## Atilley

My husband and I used maxpass out at Disneyland and thought it was great but it was just the two of us. We have a trip coming up to Disney World this fall and the kids will be with us. That’s 7 people total. I honestly don’t know that it will be worth it in a big party. I had trouble getting fast passes for everyone before and trouble finding dining. I don’t mind paying for a perk but something tells me it will not be worth it in large parties. I don’t want to pay for something and not get to use it.


----------



## mom2rtk

Atilley said:


> My husband and I used maxpass out at Disneyland and thought it was great but it was just the two of us. We have a trip coming up to Disney World this fall and the kids will be with us. That’s 7 people total. I honestly don’t know that it will be worth it in a big party. I had trouble getting fast passes for everyone before and trouble finding dining. I don’t mind paying for a perk but something tells me it will not be worth it in large parties. I don’t want to pay for something and not get to use it.


I do have the feeling the biggest supporters of the new system will be those who travel in smaller parties for shorter periods of time.


----------



## Meglen

mom2rtk said:


> I do have the feeling the biggest supporters of the new system will be those who travel in smaller parties for shorter periods of time.


Its folks with shorter trips who will see more value in it as well since if you have more days your less likely to feel the need to pay to rush.


----------



## ZeeWP

Grumpy by Birth said:


> I was involved in the discussions about "rumored" paid FPs long before the G+ announcement, so it wasn't really a surprise at all to me for the most part.  But, as I kind of alluded to in my previous post, the gut punch for me was the fact that the "best" rides are ala carte additional charges and not included in G+.
> 
> I would have predicted a higher price tag for G+ but with the expectation that it would be all-inclusive.  In fact, a lot of the discussion about price and whether or not it provides value, depends on how many people are using it.  Everyone wants it to be priced high enough that the "masses" won't spend the extra for it, but low enough that you are willing to (thus maximizing the value to those who do purchase it).  It will be interesting to see if the $15 pp per day price point is high enough to deter the "masses."  Based on many posts here and around other social media sites, the outrage would indicate that it will.  But how many of those outraged folks will begrudgingly fork over the $15 to avoid what they predict will be even longer SB lines because others have paid to skip them?
> 
> This is where the IAS model for those high demand rides may, in fact, balance supply/demand.  The rumored prices are making me think long and hard about whether I'm willing to pay that much for one ride (strongly leaning towards NOT).  How many people will fork over another $50 or $100 or more for their family to skip the line for ONE RIDE????  I want that number to be low, but in order to keep it low enough the price has to be high enough, meaning I may be included in the population of those not willing to pay it.
> 
> In terms of the comment above about not knowing what the price will be... we may never know that until "in the moment" because of the rumored "surge pricing" model.  If they implement that, we might eventually know at least a range of possible prices, but there wouldn't be a set price since it would fluctuate based on the SB wait/desperation level of the guests.
> 
> How would you feel if you spend $25 pp to skip the line for FOP and then later in the day, the price drops to $10 pp because SB is now shorter????
> 
> The gambling analogy is an apt one... do I spend that much to skip the line now?  Wait until later to see if the price drops or if the SB wait time gets low enough that I don't mind waiting?  What if I spend this much and then the line is short later?  UGH!


 Sorry, I know you posted this a week ago, but I wanted to say this is where my thoughts have been exactly, I am begrudgingly ok with G+ and if G+ Was even double the price with all the rides included FP+ style (kinda like maxpass) then I would have been fine. 

It's the IA$that really throws it all for a loop. 

And like gambling, I will probably have a set fee. When I gamble, I say, I will only put in 50 bucks. If I am out, I am done playing. Same with these: If I can't rope drop 7DMT (or the other Tier 1 attractions), then I would see if the pass ever gets 12pp or below, and then we will pay for it. Otherwise will probably just skip it if we don't have time.


----------



## grossmansr

Ugh. The whole thing is heartbreaking to me. We can't really afford a Disney trip in the first place and now this? We're already staying offsite, eating most (all?) meals in the room, forgoing souvenirs, and settling on 2 day tickets, rather than 3 or 4. We splurged on Boo Bash because we've never been and I've always wanted to go, plus I'm justifying it with the shorter lines. But there's no way we can eat another price increase. For a party of 5 it will be $150 extra just for G+, and that's not including LL$. 

I get it. This is how the market works. We were priced out a long time ago and I've been trying to make it happen despite everything. No doubt there will be plenty of people to take my place. Let's hope Legoland is nice because that's where we're heading.


----------



## ThistleMae

Disney is an expensive vacation for sure, but there is so much to do and see there.  Different kinds of vacations have costs added depending on what activities you want to do and those things can really add up.  I think many Disney lovers will just cut down on number of days, number of park tickets, the numbers of high cost restaurants, park hoppers and staying off site to reel in costs.  You don't have to buy the Genie + or the LL$.  And I do believe those of us in here will figure out the best way to tour once this thing gets rolling.  Do I like it, not so far.  I'm a FP+ planning guru, but it is what it is and I'll just have to figure it out.


----------



## Disneyfan754321

Realgrumpy said:


> I thought I read Disney resort guests could reserve at 7:00 a.m. and all other guests had to wait until they are in the park.


Of course .. they have to find some sort of on site perk to add back.  pay for LL and we will let you use it first haha


----------



## Disneyfan754321

grossmansr said:


> Ugh. The whole thing is heartbreaking to me. We can't really afford a Disney trip in the first place and now this? We're already staying offsite, eating most (all?) meals in the room, forgoing souvenirs, and settling on 2 day tickets, rather than 3 or 4. We splurged on Boo Bash because we've never been and I've always wanted to go, plus I'm justifying it with the shorter lines. But there's no way we can eat another price increase. For a party of 5 it will be $150 extra just for G+, and that's not including LL$.
> 
> I get it. This is how the market works. We were priced out a long time ago and I've been trying to make it happen despite everything. No doubt there will be plenty of people to take my place. Let's hope Legoland is nice because that's where we're heading.


On one of our trips  prior to  all these changes  the ticket price alone was going to keep us from going,
We are a family of 4  so tickets alone  were  $2000.
So we did a SeaWorld  vacation  we did the eat free promo  ( it was the same price as kids free)  we got a week hotel   seaworld, aquatica and Busch gardens  all you can dine package for all 4 of us and it was $1100  we then bought disney Christmas party tickets  for our Disney fix   and we were at the same price as just the disney tickets.
Our next trip want to buy  Orlando go passes gives you unlimited attractions for one price including legoland.   I'm not sure why they priced so many people out or making people do a one and done vacation, but there seems to be plenty of  takers.


----------



## Belle1962

For everyone looking to budget, don’t forget the Budge Board here on the DIs.


----------



## Einstein509

quandrea said:


> I received the same email—word for word. It seemed like a canned response.


Well, I guess I read too much into it.  Hope is not a method......


----------



## Aunt Dani

OhDannyBoy said:


> Just for sake of conversation, when does everyone think this thing is gonna actually roll out?


This is really all I want to know.  We're going in 2 weeks, which is after Labor Day and the unofficial end of summer, but before Sept 22 and the official start of Fall.  I'd hate for it to launch in the middle of our trip.  We probably won't go again till 2024 so fingers crossed I can wait to see how it shakes out by then.


----------



## cygnusx1jg

It's not just when will it roll out, but also how much notice prior to the roll out will Disney give.
Also, will there be a chart showing the prices for the upcharged attractions or will we not know until day of how much each is?


----------



## MeridaMerida

I hate the idea of this and likely won't do Disney trips. I'm not paying $60 to upgrade my family of 4 for a 3 minute ride and I don't want to wait 2 hours either. I'm so happy we took a family trip to Disney because we likely won't be back. Europe and Hawaii are much better options at these insane prices.


----------



## DisneyMomx7

grossmansr said:


> Ugh. The whole thing is heartbreaking to me. We can't really afford a Disney trip in the first place and now this? We're already staying offsite, eating most (all?) meals in the room, forgoing souvenirs, and settling on 2 day tickets, rather than 3 or 4. We splurged on Boo Bash because we've never been and I've always wanted to go, plus I'm justifying it with the shorter lines. But there's no way we can eat another price increase. For a party of 5 it will be $150 extra just for G+, and that's not including LL$.
> 
> I get it. This is how the market works. We were priced out a long time ago and I've been trying to make it happen despite everything. No doubt there will be plenty of people to take my place. Let's hope Legoland is nice because that's where we're heading.



Try pricing Universal - tickets are much less expensive than Disney.  If you stay in a deluxe hotel you get express passes to almost every ride.  
If you're not staying deluxe their value resorts are much nicer than Disney's value resorts!


----------



## ThistleMae

Belle1962 said:


> For everyone looking to budget, don’t forget the Budge Board here on the DIs.


----------



## jabrabu

What I really miss is the advance FP+ reservations.  I used to get my 3 advance FP+ reservations, then after I used those I'd get the single FP+ reservations, so I could get 6+ FP per day and rarely waited in any lines.


----------



## JakeAZ

cygnusx1jg said:


> It's not just when will it roll out, but also how much notice prior to the roll out will Disney give.
> Also, will there be a chart showing the prices for the upcharged attractions or will we not know until day of how much each is?


You might not even truly know on the day of as the pricing could (and likely will) change throughout the day, based on demand.


----------



## trvlgirlmq

So, let me get this straight?  The initial park ticket is just to get in the gates.  Then if I want to ride anything I have to pay for each of us to ride one time.  What the flippin #$%@!@#$@#$%@#% kind of business is this now anyway?  Anyone who continues to go to this greedy, bloodsucking place now is insane.  My last trip cost more than our 10 day trip to Europe a couple years ago.  And we stayed offsite!  I was born a Disney kid, my kids have been raised Disney kids but this is the straw that broke the camel's back.


----------



## twincruisers

trvlgirlmq said:


> So, let me get this straight?  The initial park ticket is just to get in the gates.  Then if I want to ride anything I have to pay for each of us to ride one time.  What the flippin #$%@!@#$@#$%@#% kind of business is this now anyway?  Anyone who continues to go to this greedy, bloodsucking place now is insane.  My last trip cost more than our 10 day trip to Europe a couple years ago.  And we stayed offsite!  I was born a Disney kid, my kids have been raised Disney kids but this is the straw that broke the camel's back.


No, that's an incorrect way of thinking about it.

The tickets and park reservation will let you get "in the gates". You will be able to ride every ride for free via Virtual Queue or old Stand-by lines. If you wish to upgrade to G+ to be in the shorter line for most (but excluding tier 1) rides, you can pay that fee. If you want to get guaranteed tickets to the tier 1 rides (aka IAS), you can pay a per ride per person fee.


----------



## Cabius

trvlgirlmq said:


> So, let me get this straight?  The initial park ticket is just to get in the gates.  Then if I want to ride anything I have to pay for each of us to ride one time.


That's not quite accurate...

Standby is still free, though it remains to be seen what those queues look like based on up-take of Genie+. 

So for most attractions, you can still get in line for and ride for free, or pay a flat fee per day for Genie+ in order to book Lightning Lane passes (previously FastPass).

For the top-tier attractions, you can ride Standby OR pay a separate fee per ride to use the Lightning Lane. This likely applies to 10ish "E-ticket" rides across the resort, such as Seven Dwarves Mine Train, Frozen Ever After, etc.

Finally, for attractions that utilize a Virtual Queue (Rise of the Resistance and Remy's Ratatouille Adventure) you can either book a free Virtual Queue boarding group, or pay for access per ride. Presumably free boarding groups will become harder to get since they have to remove capacity to make room for those who pay per ride.

Long story short: that may be true for Rise and Remy, if you aren't lucky enough to get a free boarding group. For everything else, Standby is still an option, and Lightning Lane access may be a flat fee or pay-per-ride depending on the attraction.

Dead simple, right??


----------



## trvlgirlmq

Paying for any ride once I have already bought a ticket that costs hundreds of dollars per person is ridiculous.  We couldn't even get the tickets for the Star Wars ride at 7am.  We are ride family.  That is what we go to do.  If I can't ride every ride I want as many times as I want on a trip then there is no point in going.  Thanks for the heads up. It will be Europe every year from now on.


----------



## OhDannyBoy

trvlgirlmq said:


> Paying for any ride once I have already bought a ticket that costs hundreds of dollars per person is ridiculous.  We couldn't even get the tickets for the Star Wars ride at 7am.  We are ride family.  That is what we go to do.  If I can't ride every ride I want as many times as I want on a trip then there is no point in going.  Thanks for the heads up. It will be Europe every year from now on.


To be fair the Star Wars ride is the only one that is like that (I think, is the rat one a boarding pass thing too?).

All the other rides have standby. As of now anyways. Standby is an option.


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

OhDannyBoy said:


> To be fair the Star Wars ride is the only one that is like that (I think, is the rat one a boarding pass thing too?).
> 
> All the other rides have standby. As of now anyways. Standby is an option.


Yes, Ratatouille will also be boarding passes.


----------



## bunkerchump

Haven't been following too closely over the last week or so...  Any word on whether Disney is acknowledging the negative feedback and/or plans to modify things - or maybe they just feel they will take their lumps then all will be forgotten in time by the time it rolls out?


----------



## MrBellatrixLestrange

bunkerchump said:


> Haven't been following too closely over the last week or so...  Any word on whether Disney is acknowledging the negative feedback and/or plans to modify things - or maybe they just feel they will take their lumps then all will be forgotten in time by the time it rolls out?


I would be surprised if they acknowledge it beforehand, if they get a ton of complaints post-implementation they will probably adjust but I can't see them not at least putting the new system in place to see if the uproar dies down once people actually experience it.


----------



## ThistleMae

I think it will get tweaked as implementation presents whatever problems may exist.  It will be frustrating for folks who are first using it, if problems arise, because it will take time to go to whomever you need to in order to get a refund or courtesy LL passes.  I hope they roll it out sooner rather than later.  Perhaps they will have a two week limited trial or something like that to sort things out before getting it up and running.  Don't they sometimes do this?


----------



## bunkerchump

Being a Guinea pig is fine when its free, but once you are paying it is not acceptable.


----------



## Robbie Cottam

squirk said:


> Yes, I understand how a for-profit corporation works.  My point was not that Disney owes us a free FP system. Rather, my point was that they cultivated this “free FP included with the price of your ticket!” mindset for 20 years, so the backlash is hardly a surprise.
> 
> And I agree that Disney has had tons of people examining and studying the feasibility of Genie before they made a commitment.  That said:
> 
> 1.) I know a lot of MBAs; some of them are not _that_ smart; and that degree doesn’t make them any less prone to error, confirmation bias and overconfidence than anybody else;
> 
> 2.) Even the best marketing minds can only do so much if they are getting poor directives from upper management; and
> 
> 3.) I think we all have seen, either first-hand or in the news, a lot of big companies, similarly employing a lot of “smart” people with a lot of letters after their name, that still screwed things up royally.
> 
> In short, Disney’s not infallible.  I’m not saying they haven’t crossed “t”s and dotted “i”s with Genie+/LL, but they still could be mis-calibrating our appetite for it.
> 
> And of course, if they are wrong, they’ll never admit that.  They’ll just create new “magical offers” of some sort (e.g., free LL passes for Deluxe resort guests) that makes it look like they’re doing us a munificent favor vs. outright cutting prices on anything.


Disney could have charged all of us the extra 15 dollars a day with higher ticket prices, and give you your free fast pass, or what they did do, which was leave the ticket price alone and charge only those that wanted it…..

if Disney charge an extra 20 dollars per day for the tickets, but gave you a free fast pass would you be happy?


----------



## pigletgirl

bunkerchump said:


> Haven't been following too closely over the last week or so...  Any word on whether Disney is acknowledging the negative feedback and/or plans to modify things - or maybe they just feel they will take their lumps then all will be forgotten in time by the time it rolls out?


I think they need to come give us answers. It's clear that we all don't fully understand this new process and if they intend to roll it out in the next 30 days (in time for the 50th), then they need to get going. It's frustrating to hear/read all the negativity and angst about one of our favorite vacation destinations. I don't have a trip planned till next spring and who knows how this will all be then.


----------



## Marionnette

Robbie Cottam said:


> Disney could have charged all of us the extra 15 dollars a day with higher ticket prices, and give you your free fast pass, or what they did do, which was leave the ticket price alone and charge only those that wanted it…..
> 
> if Disney charge an extra 20 dollars per day for the tickets, but gave you a free fast pass would you be happy?


What makes you think that Disney won't increase ticket prices too, in addition to charging for Genie+? With the dynamic pricing, it's easy for them to hide increases and the only way to tell is when your ticket for the same time a year later costs more or if you delay making your purchase and find that it costs you more than it would have last week.

Personally, I would have been fine with a modest ticket price increase if they would have continued to offer 3 advance LL and all attractions as a part of Genie+. It's the day-of planning, the lack of a guaranteed number of LL and the money grab for IA$ that rubs me the wrong way. But Disney will increase the gate price (look at the huge leap in AP costs) AND charge guests for Genie+. It's not an "either or" situation. Disney will gouge guests with both.


----------



## itf

Robbie Cottam said:


> Disney could have charged all of us the extra 15 dollars a day with higher ticket prices, and give you your free fast pass, or what they did do, which was leave the ticket price alone and charge only those that wanted it…..
> 
> if Disney charge an extra 20 dollars per day for the tickets, but gave you a free fast pass would you be happy?



Well for some of us they've moved the goalposts after we said we'd play. I've got a 14 day 'ultimate' ticket for next year's trip - so I've got admission, hopping and photos - so yes, I'd have been much happier if they included it in the ticket price, as I'd already paid for the tickets!


----------



## nkereina

trvlgirlmq said:


> Paying for any ride once I have already bought a ticket that costs hundreds of dollars per person is ridiculous.


The standby line does not cost additional once you enter the park. Genie+ and IAS are both optional. The cost you pay to use these services is simply for the purpose of shortening your wait time.



trvlgirlmq said:


> If I can't ride every ride I want as many times as I want on a trip then there is no point in going.


You will still be able to as the standby line will still be available.


----------



## trvlgirlmq

nkereina said:


> The standby line does not cost additional once you enter the park. Genie+ and IAS are both optional. The cost you pay to use these services is simply for the purpose of shortening your wait time.
> 
> 
> You will still be able to as the standby line will still be available.


There is no stadnby for sTar wars or remy.  If I want to ride and can't get a boarding pass then i have to pay.  That is a big fat, h@!! no.


----------



## Robbie Cottam

Marionnette said:


> What makes you think that Disney won't increase ticket prices too, in addition to charging for Genie+? With the dynamic pricing, it's easy for them to hide increases and the only way to tell is when your ticket for the same time a year later costs more or if you delay making your purchase and find that it costs you more than it would have last week.
> 
> Personally, I would have been fine with a modest ticket price increase if they would have continued to offer 3 advance LL and all attractions as a part of Genie+. It's the day-of planning, the lack of a guaranteed number of LL and the money grab for IA$ that rubs me the wrong way. But Disney will increase the gate price (look at the huge leap in AP costs) AND charge guests for Genie+. It's not an "either or" situation. Disney will gouge guests with both.


The new annual pass prices came out and the increase was de minimis


----------



## Marionnette

Robbie Cottam said:


> The new annual pass prices came out and the increase was de minimis


That +$400 increase (~45%) for FL residents and DVC members for the Platinum -> Incredi-Pass is _de minimus_? The 26% increase from Gold -> Sorcerer is a small increase? The shifting and increasing of block out dates should not be a concern? And the removal of Photopass as an included benefit should be ignored when discussing a loss of value?


----------



## bunkerchump

They've been increasing prices all along....  Much more than inflation for years...  And decreasing perks and benefits - but I saw an announcement that AP holders will get a new magnet mailed to them - TERRIFIC.  Cost of postage will be worth more than the magnet.   Genie will be another money grab.


----------



## Cabius

trvlgirlmq said:


> There is no stadnby for sTar wars or remy.  If I want to ride and can't get a boarding pass then i have to pay.  That is a big fat, h@!! no.


To be fair, before they offered a paid option, if you didn't get a boarding group you had absolutely no recourse, so that problem isn't unique to the new program. 

Those rides (or at least RotR) cannot accommodate everybody who wants to experience them, so some people absolutely will miss out.

All that said -- the option to pay for access will decrease the supply of free boarding groups and exacerbate the problem. Even if the new Jafar program didn't create the problem of limited free access, it will certainly make it worse. I get the anger.


----------



## elgerber

trvlgirlmq said:


> There is no stadnby for sTar wars or remy.  If I want to ride and can't get a boarding pass then i have to pay.  That is a big fat, h@!! no.


But that has nothing to do with Genie +, it's always been that way.  Now you have an extra option, if you should choose to use it.


----------



## btuftee

trvlgirlmq said:


> If I can't ride every ride I want as many times as I want on a trip then there is no point in going.



That's a tough standard - does anyone ever go to WDW and ride every ride they want, as many times as they want?  I don't think I've ever had that happen on a trip - there is always something left undone, something I would've ridden a few more times, etc.  It's about doing and seeing and experiencing enough to make you happy, for the time and effort you put in for the trip.  Certainly I get my fill of some rides, maybe even most rides, but if your standard is to do everything you want as many times as you want, no vacation destination can live up to that.


----------



## Robbie Cottam

Marionnette said:


> That +$400 increase (~45%) for FL residents and DVC members for the Platinum -> Incredi-Pass is _de minimus_? The 26% increase from Gold -> Sorcerer is a small increase? The shifting and increasing of block out dates should not be a concern? And the removal of Photopass as an included benefit should be ignored when discussing a loss of value?


The way I read the rate increase the gold, member ship for DVC member went from $720 to $750.... and the took away some of the back out day, effectively giving me more days I can use my pass....


So the way I do math  that is $30 dollars more over 350 days or about .85 cents a day over the course of the year.....
Or $30 dollars more over the 24 days I will actually use my annual pass $1.25 per day... that is De Minimus in my book yes.  Maybe your using new math, or alternate facts?  I don't know.

But I have the blue card, maybe that is worth the little bit extra I paid to buy direct?

Oh and I not sure why anyone would buy photo pass, My cell phone has a better camera in it than most cameras, and I can price posters at walmart, for a few dollars a piece....


----------



## quandrea

nkereina said:


> The standby line does not cost additional once you enter the park. Genie+ and IAS are both optional. The cost you pay to use these services is simply for the purpose of shortening your wait time.
> 
> 
> You will still be able to as the standby line will still be available.


You say these things like it’s a good thing?!


----------



## ThistleMae

It may or may not be a good thing.  If it actually works better than FP+ I'll pay for it a couple of times, like for MK.  But...the fact I have to pay to avoid a super long line on Tier one rides, I'll be very disappointed.  And if I can't get a boarding group, I will be a bit unhappy but will make due because I don't want to have a bad trip based on my perception of what a bad trip might be.


----------



## DisneyFive

Robbie Cottam said:


> Disney could have charged all of us the extra 15 dollars a day with higher ticket prices, and give you your free fast pass, or what they did do, which was leave the ticket price alone and charge only those that wanted it…..
> 
> if Disney charge an extra 20 dollars per day for the tickets, but gave you a free fast pass would you be happy?



Either scenario is a price increase for getting LESS than we had before with FP+.  If they are going to make us pay, of course we like it to be optional, but really for folks like us who go once a year or once every two years, we are going to pay because time is money and we need to maximize our stay.

Versus nothing (standby all day) I'm happy to pay for G+.  We did standby all day a month ago and it was not fun.  I would say that lack of FP+ devalued our 10 night, $10,000 vacation by 25%.  Yes, it was that significant to us:

The need to get up EARLY every day (combined with a less effective rope drop than in years past)
Standing in HOT lines for hours upon hours each day
Doing far less attractions each day because we were standing in lines
Having less time to just relax and enjoy the park atmosphere
Lack of time to shop, etc...
I would gladly have paid the $15pp if it would have been offered.

My biggest complaint with G+ is the lack of pre-booking your first three rides like we had with FP+.  This made it possible to sleep in if necessary, and still have a fulfilling day at any given park.  It also greatly reduced rope drop crowds, making the first couple of hours MUCH more effective,  because guests didn't have the need to be there so early to hit that headliner or two standby before crowds built.  Rope drop this year was the most crowded, by far, versus all of our other stays.

Dan


----------



## nkereina

trvlgirlmq said:


> There is no stadnby for sTar wars or remy.  If I want to ride and can't get a boarding pass then i have to pay.  That is a big fat, h@!! no.


As others have already pointed out, in current state - if you don't get a boarding pass, you can't ride at all. There's no other option. When IAS rolls out, you will have the option to pay if you want to ride, but its still very much optional. So when that is in effect, you will literally be in the same position you're in now if you're not willing to pay. Try for the boarding group and accept the fact that you won't ride it if you can't get one.


----------



## nkereina

quandrea said:


> You say these things like it’s a good thing?!


I never said good or bad. I was simply pointing out to the poster I quoted that they do not have to "pay more to ride rides". They would only be paying to shorten their wait time, if they so choose. They still have the option to ride without paying additional. Seems like that's a big misconception that needs constant clarifying here.


----------



## serenitygr

nkereina said:


> As others have already pointed out, in current state - if you don't get a boarding pass, you can't ride at all. There's no other option. When IAS rolls out, you will have the option to pay if you want to ride, but its still very much optional. So when that is in effect, you will literally be in the same position you're in now if you're not willing to pay. Try for the boarding group and accept the fact that you won't ride it if you can't get one.


I think the biggest concern is that a lot of those virtual cue spots will now be used by those that are willing to pay for that spot. This ride already has a fairly limited capacity, so this will make it more difficult, if not impossible, for most families to get a virtual boarding group.


----------



## Cabius

serenitygr said:


> I think the biggest concern is that a lot of those virtual cue spots will now be used by those that are willing to pay for that spot. This ride already has a fairly limited capacity, so this will make it more difficult, if not impossible, for most families to get a virtual boarding group.


100% agree. I know Disney won't want the backlash of eliminating free options altogether, so there will be some volume of VQ passes available. But they'll likely increase the allocation to paid passes until they stop selling out. 

If they can sell 5,000 passes for $30/each that's almost $55m/year. But that cuts VQ availability by 1/3rd, and makes it harder to get in for free.


----------



## Marionnette

Robbie Cottam said:


> The way I read the rate increase the gold, member ship for DVC member went from $720 to $750.... and the took away some of the back out day, effectively giving me more days I can use my pass....
> 
> 
> So the way I do math  that is $30 dollars more over 350 days or about .85 cents a day over the course of the year.....
> Or $30 dollars more over the 24 days I will actually use my annual pass $1.25 per day... that is De Minimus in my book yes.  Maybe your using new math, or alternate facts?  I don't know.
> 
> But I have the blue card, maybe that is worth the little bit extra I paid to buy direct?
> 
> Oh and I not sure why anyone would buy photo pass, My cell phone has a better camera in it than most cameras, and I can price posters at walmart, for a few dollars a piece....


You're looking at the renewal rate, not the price for purchasing a new AP. I stand by my math.


----------



## trvlgirlmq

Have fun spending more for less.  This Disney family is out.


----------



## Cabius

Marionnette said:


> You're looking at the renewal rate, not the price for purchasing a new AP. I stand by my math.



The cost of a new pass increased from $719 to $899, or 25%

The cost of a renewal increased from $611 to $764, also 25%

That's about $0.50 per calendar day or $7.50 per park day (assuming 24 park days as in the example given).

It's not small! For a family of 4, that's $720/year for new passes or $612 for renewals.


----------



## Robbie Cottam

Marionnette said:


> You're looking at the renewal rate, not the price for purchasing a new AP. I stand by my math.


Correct, I just renewed my annual pass.

Common sense would say you only pay the new annual pass few once. Then renew every year after that..... But maybe I'm missing something here.....

However, even at 900 dollars per year, and the 24 days a year I go, its less that $38 dollars per day per person. That is cheap by my math! I actually just spent more lunch for my son and I to get sushi.  

Also I find the amount ironic, A few years ago I was pricing out health insurance since my employer had purchased the company a platinum plan, and was only paying the absolute minimum he had to, basically he complied with the law by pricing all of us out of the plan....

Anyway when I went through the health care connector and I was told I need to pay $720 dollars per month more for my health insurance (from the state connector site) than I could have purchased the exact same insurance from my insurance agent because I made to much.  How is that "fair"?
All things are relative. 

I would like to point out the Disney, as much as we all love it, is a luxury, No argument can be make for needed to go to Disney. Health insurance is not a luxury!  

Disney, again, as much as we all love it, is a FOR PROFIT BUSINESS!
They derive those profits for "GUESTS" AND PAY THOSE PROFITS TO SHAREHOLDERS!

I for one look forward to my dividend checks.  

Disney's duty is to maximize shareholder profits . They have a plan, if it works (people pay the added costs) the share holders are happy, the CEO keeps his job, and bonuses.
If the plan doesn't work, people stop going to Disney or don't pay for the Genie etc, shareholder get made, CEO gets fired free fast pass MAY come back...

You vote with your pocket book or wallet, If Disney has priced themselves out of the market don't go. My guess is that ticket prices will continue to rise, and the parks will still be full. 

But If the day ever comes when ticket prices have risen so much that I can no longer afford to go to Disney, I will have to stop going. It is that simple.

Disney duty to the guests is to have safe, clean, exciting parks and fun parks. They have done that.


----------



## Cabius

Robbie Cottam said:


> Correct, I just renewed my annual pass.
> Common sense would say you only pay the new annual pass few once. Then renew every year..... But maybe I'm missing something here.....


Then you need to compare the new renewal price ($764) to the old renewal price ($611) since that's the comparable price point. It's the same 25% increase.


----------



## Marionnette

Robbie Cottam said:


> Correct, I just renewed my annual pass.
> Common sense would say you only pay the new annual pass few once. Then renew every year..... But maybe I'm missing something here.....


A lot of people get a year of visits out of an AP and then take several months off. They then purchase a new AP because the $'s and dates work out better for them. Renewing makes no sense if you are not going to visit for another 5 or 6 months or even more.

But if you want to compare apples to apples, the cost to renew a Gold AP is $651 w/tax...that is if you qualify to renew before September 8th. The cost to renew to a Sorcerer AP on or after 9/8 will be $764 w/tax...a difference of +$113. While it's not as incredible as some of the other increases, it still represents a 17% rise in price.


----------



## Marionnette

Cabius said:


> Then you need to compare the new renewal price ($764) to the old renewal price ($611) since that's the comparable price point. It's the same 25% increase.


$611 is the pre-tax price for a Gold AP renewal. $764 is the after-tax cost to renew to a Sorcerer AP.


----------



## Robbie Cottam

Marionnette said:


> $611 is the pre-tax price for a Gold AP renewal. $764 is the after-tax cost to renew to a Sorcerer AP.


Ok, I stand correct. But even at 899 if you use the pass like I do its about $38 bucks a day....
Maybe people are buying annual passes that don't go enough?


----------



## Marionnette

Robbie Cottam said:


> Ok, I stand correct. But even at 899 if you use the pass like I do its about $38 bucks a day....
> Maybe people are buying annual passes that don't go enough?


Let's just call it "not as frequently" as you. There's still value in an AP if you go less than 24 times in 365 days. The value has just diminished for some and has actually disappeared for others. Having Photopass included added value for some people even if you never used it. Free theme park parking isn't a benefit to some guests but means a lot to those who drive to the parks. Those perks also went into determining the worth of an AP for people.


----------



## Grasshopper2016

Robbie Cottam said:


> They derive those profits [from] "GUESTS" AND PAY THOSE PROFITS TO SHAREHOLDERS!
> 
> I for one look forward to my dividend checks.


Fair enough.  But I'm not sure that your interests align with those of most posters on these boards.  Minimizing the guest experience in order to maximize the transfer of funds from guests to shareholders does not tend to make the guests happy.


----------



## nkereina

serenitygr said:


> I think the biggest concern is that a lot of those virtual cue spots will now be used by those that are willing to pay for that spot. This ride already has a fairly limited capacity, so this will make it more difficult, if not impossible, for most families to get a virtual boarding group.


There will be a percentage of people going to DHS who will not even bother with trying to obtain a boarding group and will go straight to purchasing an IAS. I may be one of those people because I hate the build-up and intensity, plus I'm not always awake at 7am. I imagine there will be other like-minded people who will just skip all that and pay for it. Plus, with IAS, its possible you may be able to select a time as opposed to being at the mercy of the boarding group time. If that's the case, that may entice more people to buy it too. So, the pool of people trying to grab boarding positions will be smaller. Will the number of available boarding positions be smaller too? Presumably yes, but we have no idea what those ratios are. Its already difficult to obtain a boarding group, so I'm not sure what changes would even be noticeable on the user end that would change that. 

ROTR likely won't stay VQ forever. At some point, FP+ (if it still existed) would have been implemented and presumably at some point, there will be a traditional standby queue. Universal does the same thing with their new popular rides - no express pass, virtual queues, etc. Eventually, when the novelty wears off or something else new comes around, they align with other rides.


----------



## Robbie Cottam

Marionnette said:


> A lot of people get a year of visits out of an AP and then take several months off. They then purchase a new AP because the $'s and dates work out better for them. Renewing makes no sense if you are not going to visit for another 5 or 6 months or even more.
> 
> But if you want to compare apples to apples, the cost to renew a Gold AP is $651 w/tax...that is if you qualify to renew before September 8th. The cost to renew to a Sorcerer AP on or after 9/8 will be $764 w/tax...a difference of +$113. While it's not as incredible as some of the other increases, it still represents a 17% rise in price.





Marionnette said:


> Let's just call it "not as frequently" as you. There's still value in an AP if you go less than 24 times in 365 days. The value has just diminished for some and has actually disappeared for others. Having Photopass included added value for some people even if you never used it. Free theme park parking isn't a benefit to some guests but means a lot to those who drive to the parks. Those perks also went into determining the worth of an AP for people.



Every Disney guests has to decide for themselves if the Market Utility for what they are purchasing is worth the price they are paying. IE maybe an annual pass or Genie or a dinning plan is not right for everyone.

The purpose of the annual pass is to use it. That is where the value comes in. My goal in the next five years is to spend 4 days a month at day from OctobeR to MaRch (never go in a month without an R) plus at two at least 7 day vacations. At that point I would need the top tier pass but that works out to $37/ per day. That seems pretty reasonable to me.  I would never buy that top tier pass to go for 14 days, because that would be more than $100 dollars per day.


All the extras that I had to pay for along the way where of no value to me. It was like me having to pay for others health insurance....

I prefer the A la cart pricing.

It would be the same as may demanding that Disney include the deluxe dinning plan in all rooms rates.

Half of you would be appalled, I would love it.

The bottom line if Disney has made the Genie / fast pass system to expensive, don't use it.
If park passes are to expensive, don't go.
If they dinning plan doesn't work for you don't buy it.

If enough people communicate this dissatisfaction at the ticket both, buy not showing up, Disney will rethink the pricing. You you go and complain that you paid $3600 for 4 annual passes, then $600 dollars for the genie, all Disney is going to do is say "THANK YOU, COME AGAIN!"


----------



## quandrea

nkereina said:


> I never said good or bad. I was simply pointing out to the poster I quoted that they do not have to "pay more to ride rides". They would only be paying to shorten their wait time, if they so choose. They still have the option to ride without paying additional. Seems like that's a big misconception that needs constant clarifying here.


That seems like semantics to me. Genie+ signifies a significant dilution of the value of one’s park ticket. What could be had as an inclusion under the FP+ system, can no longer be accomplished without an up charge. I see no need for constant clarification.


----------



## Cabius

quandrea said:


> That seems like semantics to me. Genie+ signifies a significant dilution of the value of one’s park ticket. What could be had as an inclusion under the FP+ system, can no longer be accomplished without an up charge. I see no need for constant clarification.


It's not semantics. There's a world of difference between "you have to pay for FP+ now" and "you cannot ride any rides without paying an additional per-ride fee". The OP was straight-up mistaken about the facts.

That doesn't mean Jafar+ doesn't still suck, or that the value of the ticket is diluted. But clarification in the face of misinformation is a good thing.


----------



## bunkerchump

Robbie Cottam said:


> Correct, I just renewed my annual pass.
> 
> Common sense would say you only pay the new annual pass few once. Then renew every year after that..... But maybe I'm missing something here.....
> 
> However, even at 900 dollars per year, and the 24 days a year I go, its less that $38 dollars per day per person. That is cheap by my math! I actually just spent more lunch for my son and I to get sushi.
> 
> Also I find the amount ironic, A few years ago I was pricing out health insurance since my employer had purchased the company a platinum plan, and was only paying the absolute minimum he had to, basically he complied with the law by pricing all of us out of the plan....
> 
> Anyway when I went through the health care connector and I was told I need to pay $720 dollars per month more for my health insurance (from the state connector site) than I could have purchased the exact same insurance from my insurance agent because I made to much.  How is that "fair"?
> All things are relative.
> 
> I would like to point out the Disney, as much as we all love it, is a luxury, No argument can be make for needed to go to Disney. Health insurance is not a luxury!
> 
> Disney, again, as much as we all love it, is a FOR PROFIT BUSINESS!
> They derive those profits for "GUESTS" AND PAY THOSE PROFITS TO SHAREHOLDERS!
> 
> I for one look forward to my dividend checks.
> 
> Disney's duty is to maximize shareholder profits . They have a plan, if it works (people pay the added costs) the share holders are happy, the CEO keeps his job, and bonuses.
> If the plan doesn't work, people stop going to Disney or don't pay for the Genie etc, shareholder get made, CEO gets fired free fast pass MAY come back...
> 
> You vote with your pocket book or wallet, If Disney has priced themselves out of the market don't go. My guess is that ticket prices will continue to rise, and the parks will still be full.
> 
> But If the day ever comes when ticket prices have risen so much that I can no longer afford to go to Disney, I will have to stop going. It is that simple.
> 
> Disney duty to the guests is to have safe, clean, exciting parks and fun parks. They have done that.




I'm a shareholder and I don't like what I'm perceiving as a fleecing and risk of abandonment of a passionately supportive demographic, profitable base.    I think it is a very short-sided plan and I'm afraid that once these folks get fed up to the point where they leave - it will take A LOT to get them back - if ever.  Seems to me a lot of folks are at a tipping point..  I'm one of them...   

And it's not just about pricing some people out of the market - it is the experience you provide to keep people paying the prices you demand.  We who are passionate know the costs that have been extracted out of the business in the form of countless CMs many of whom may never return.  Not all of the CMs directly entertain us.   Many indirectly - i.e. Preventative Maintenance.  How much short term savings were realized to maintain attractions like LWTL which has now been down for how many days now.?  (BTW, that's one of my all time favorite attractions - so I'd be quite PO'd to have been there last week into this week....).  And let's be honest - ROTR is NOT in proper working order, and/or corners were cut to develop and build a headliner attraction where only a relatively small % of it's guest base can possibly experience.


----------



## Robbie Cottam

bunkerchump said:


> I'm a shareholder and I don't like what I'm perceiving as a fleecing and risk of abandonment of a passionately supportive demographic, profitable base.    I think it is a very short-sided plan and I'm afraid that once these folks get fed up to the point where they leave - it will take A LOT to get them back - if ever.  Seems to me a lot of folks are at a tipping point..  I'm one of them...
> 
> And it's not just about pricing some people out of the market - it is the experience you provide to keep people paying the prices you demand.  We who are passionate know the costs that have been extracted out of the business in the form of countless CMs many of whom may never return.  Not all of the CMs directly entertain us.   Many indirectly - i.e. Preventative Maintenance.  How much short term savings were realized to maintain attractions like LWTL which has now been down for how many days now.?  (BTW, that's one of my all time favorite attractions - so I'd be quite PO'd to have been there last week into this week....).  And let's be honest - ROTR is NOT in proper working order, and/or corners were cut to develop and build a headliner attraction where only a relatively small % of it's guest base can possibly experience.



I'm Also a share holder.

Since you brought up preventative maintenance, let take a look at maintenance cost. If any company can charge 20 percent more and get 80 percent of the people to still use their services, that company will make the same gross income, however their maintenance cost will be cut by 20 percent. 

The guest that still chose to enjoy the attractions will have crowed that are 20 percent smaller, etc. etc. etc. 

The bottom line is Disney used to have a lot of perceived "free" value. The cost was always there, you just didn't know about it. 

Now things that only some people find value in have been removed, or a served a la cart.

You can still get a fast pass,  by any name you just have to pay for it. 
You can still get a photo pass, you just have to pay for it. 

I'm ok with the changes and will continue to go.

I STRONGLY, recommend anyone that is not ok with the changes to purchase a share and voice their opinion at the next stock holder meeting, OR and this will me heard much sooner by the powers that be.... Stop buying tickets.

If what Disney has done, has you so upset, don't go.  
The market research teams will figure it out quickly, Disney will bring things back, or make other changes. 

Complaining on here, or even on the Disney website, then going to the parks and paying for all the extras just isn't going to get you anywhere. 

If Disney (or any other company) has priced them selves out of the market they will find out quickly, but only if all of you take your next vacation anywhere but Disney. 

Again, I don't want to pay for fast pass, photo pass and VC for ROTR ( I though the ride was a joke) now if you could go all Han Solo take their blaster and start shooting them that would be cool...

The best thing for Disney to do, is try the a la cart model and see how it goes, It wouldn't be the first Disney flop and if it is a flop it won't be their last. 

I like the new system, because I don't feel like I'm being forced to pay for something I'm not going to use. But like any show, and Disney is a big show, the success of failure happens at the ticket booth, not the internet.


----------



## bunkerchump

Robbie Cottam said:


> I'm Also a share holder.
> 
> Since you brought up preventative maintenance, let take a look at maintenance cost. If any company can charge 20 percent more and get 80 percent of the people to still use their services, that company will make the same gross income, however their maintenance cost will be cut by 20 percent.
> 
> The guest that still chose to enjoy the attractions will have crowed that are 20 percent smaller, etc. etc. etc.
> 
> ==



Absolutely not.   Cost is your cost.   Cost as a % of revenue will decrease yes, but disney is no doubt decreasing the amount they are spending on PMs.   And it shows.   As an example, if we use your math, let's say I rent a house at $2K per month and included in my expenses is preventative maintenance of my central AC unit of $300.  If I increase my rent to $3K a month, but keep expenses the same, my expenses decrease?   They don't - they stay the same - I've just made more profit.   Translation into this example, Disney is Increasing the rent and decreasing their cost...  and thus increasing their profits.... "IF" the same amount of people attend the parks.   If not, revenue decreases while costs also decrease....  maybe that is their plan, but considering they are still building resorts, I wouldn't think so....   Excellent if you can get away with it.... Time will tell.....   

And we all get that we have a choice - You obviously love the concept of G+, can afford it, and are more than willing to pay for it.   That's your opinion - Many others either cannot afford it, can afford it and don't want to pay for it, or just do not like the concept - or other reasons they are all entitled to just as you are.


----------



## Robbie Cottam

bunkerchump said:


> Absolutely not.   Cost is your cost.   Cost as a % of revenue will decrease yes, but disney is no doubt decreasing the amount they are spending on PMs.   And it shows.   As an example, if we use your math, let's say I rent a house at $2K per month and included in my expenses is preventative maintenance of my central AC unit of $300.  If I increase my rent to $3K a month, but keep expenses the same, my expenses decrease?   They don't - they stay the same - I've just made more profit.   Translation into this example, Disney is Increasing the rent and decreasing their cost...  and thus increasing their profits.... "IF" the same amount of people attend the parks.   If not, revenue decreases while costs also decrease....  maybe that is their plan, but considering they are still building resorts, I wouldn't think so....   Excellent if you can get away with it.... Time will tell.....
> 
> And we all get that we have a choice - You obviously love the concept of G+, can afford it, and are more than willing to pay for it.   That's your opinion - Many others either cannot afford it, can afford it and don't want to pay for it, or just do not like the concept - or other reasons they are all entitled to just as you are.


Really.
Do you can run a million people though the park or 800,000 people though the park and the maintenance cost are the same ?  

I’m calling BS.


----------



## bunkerchump

So your saying WDW wants to run less people through their parks to justify lower spend?   To justify less wear and tear on their attractions????


----------



## Robbie Cottam

bunkerchump said:


> So your saying WDW wants to run less people through their parks to justify lower spend?   To justify less wear and tear on their attractions????


I’m saying that is was an argument to someone else’s argument.
That’s what this has turned into, a Disney sucks argument…. 
So I provided a possible alternate points of view.

However, from a purely academic point of view, IF a company can charge more and that results in "run(ing) less people through their parks to justify lower spend?   To justify less wear and tear on their attractions....

If gross revenue stays the same, and the wear and tear goes down, even by 10 percent not 20. Doesn't the company realize a substantial savings?

All the parts on the rides have a life limit. May guess is it not only time but cycles. 
A door can only open and close so many times before it needs to be fixed
Walls can only be touched so many times before the need paint. 

Yes the roof is going to last x number of years if no one is in the part or a million people are in the park. 
Rides that sit and are not used will actually be in worst condition that one the is used heavily, but that get used just not as often will need less maintenance.

I worked for a company that was the highest price jet operator on the market. We got laughed at we were so expensive. But at the end of the year, we made the same money as the guys the flew twice as much, but had half the maintenance cost. Our airplanes were not trashed out like the other guys, and we almost never had a break down.

People will gladly pay more for quality perceived or other wise. 

So if less people are in the parks because they feel like they are getting ripped off having to pay for something that used to be free, 

Some one else will pay more to go to a park that has a little more space and short lines.


----------



## bunkerchump

Robbie Cottam said:


> I’m saying that is was an argument to someone else’s argument.
> That’s what this bored has turned into, a Disney sucks argument….
> So I provided a possible alternate points of view.



These boards are a place for people to safely voice their opinon good and bad.   Just because many people here don't like Genie, doesnt mean we are DIsney Haters.   We don't have to love everything they do.  We can be critical and believe me, they are hearing the negativity (and probably planned for it).  Let's just agree to disagree on this one... Nothing but love for ya Robbie.   I respect your opinon...


----------



## Robbie Cottam

First, I'm pretty sure you could safely call Disney and tell them how you feel, In fact I know you can do that because I have done it more than a few times when things haven't been magical.

I also know you could safely speak to a cast member and voice these concerns directly to them, even though they have no power to do anything about it, I'm sure senior cast members would listen, take notes and forward you concerns.

So this forum is not your only recourse here.

And Yes, I agree you are entitle to your opinion, I totally agree.

However, Perceptions are Realities 

From my stand point, my opinion, that I'm glad you respect is that this thread has turned in to Disney suck because they are trying something new. 

This thread will not get Disney to go back to the fast past system.
This thread will not get Disney to lower park passes.  (nor do I believe they should)
This thread is a great place for people to let out there frustrations, however, if you want to change something, you have to look at both sides of the problem objectively. 

If anyone from this thread goes to Disney buys the new annual passes, what ever flavor, buys the Genie and the LL and then sits in the park and complains they are going to ruin their own vacation and the vacation of people they come in contact with. 

SO AGREE TO DISAGREE SURE, but please don't go if you are at your tipping point.


----------



## bunkerchump

Robbie Cottam said:


> However, Perceptions are Realities



Some common ground we can definitely agree on for sure.


----------



## DisneyFive

This back and forth is getting boring.  Just saying.

Dan


----------



## Disney Bobby

Disney is getting too cute with their IT micromanagement of the parks.  Going to be a mess and ruin the experience for many.  Some of the best technology is the technology that isn't a hassle to manage or just completely transparent to the people it's helping.  This just feels like more scheduling on top of the scheduling you already do plus extra fees.  It's becoming a major project management initiative just to go to Disney, and if you don't participate, you are pretty much guaranteed a bad experience.


----------



## nkereina

quandrea said:


> That seems like semantics to me. Genie+ signifies a significant dilution of the value of one’s park ticket. What could be had as an inclusion under the FP+ system, can no longer be accomplished without an up charge. I see no need for constant clarification.


Two very different concepts. The poster I quoted seemed to believe they _needed_ to pay additional to ride rides once they got in the park and that's just not true. Genie+ is optional and you can still ride rides without spending another dime once you enter the gates. That's a fact.

You're talking about relative value of the park ticket, which is totally different. I don't disagree that some of the value is lost now that the former FP queues can only be used by paying extra. But, that doesn't change the fact that it's inaccurate to say you *must* pay extra to ride rides. That's simply not true.

Clearly, it does need clarification because you're talking about two different things.


----------



## OhDannyBoy

DisneyFive said:


> This back and forth is getting boring.  Just saying.
> 
> Dan


From one Dan to another....yeah....

Hopefully in the next few days something useful will come about and be posted. Like when this might be implemented, and after that, how it ACTUALLY works.


----------



## Stephy811

OhDannyBoy said:


> From one Dan to another....yeah....
> 
> Hopefully in the next few days something useful will come about and be posted. Like when this might be implemented, and after that, how it ACTUALLY works.


I agree…I liked the fp+ system and felt like we always got everything we wanted with a little persistence.  I’m trying to reserve judgment until I have details on Genie+…but just throwing out “fall 2021” then no details is really frustrating for those of us with upcoming trips.  At least let me know timeline and prices so I can plan.  I really think the lack of details is causing alot of the negative feedback (certainly not all)…if they had just rolled out with all the details people would have moved on to planning (or canceling or whatever they decide to do) but just leaving us to guess is just leading to more debate and angst!


----------



## lorileahb

I'm a planner by nature, and we've done Disney and taken advantage of all the tips and tricks... rarely, if ever, wait more than 20 mins for a ride - usually riding everything we want including headliners.

That said, I think patience and waiting is a virtue that is soon going to be lost on the generation growing up.  There is nothing wrong with my kids (or me) having to wait for something that is worth the wait - and to have to decide this versus that... gives them a chance to learn what they value/prefer more... life skills.

Knowing it will never happen, I would LOVE to go back to sell X number of tickets per day (whatever that number is to maintain manageable crowds), one price for a ticket no up-charges - and just walk around - same lines / shows / attractions for all - random characters walking around at random times. 

Mobile ordering is the one thing I see as a true value add that I would keep.

I don't come to the parks to be glued to my phone or throw money out the window for things that should be part of being in the park.  I come to the park to share the time and magic with my family and friends.


----------



## Grumpy by Birth

serenitygr said:


> I think the biggest concern is that a lot of those virtual cue spots will now be used by those that are willing to pay for that spot. This ride already has a fairly limited capacity, so this will make it more difficult, if not impossible, for most families to get a virtual boarding group.


Disclaimer... the following is pure speculation on my part.

I think that they would still give out the same number of BGs at 7 am that they usually do.  Remember.... obtaining a BG does not guarantee you will be able to ride.  Throughout the day, as people pay for IA$ access to ROTR (or Remy), they will get priority over those with a BG #.  That will slow down the normal progression of getting through the BGs, meaning more people with higher BG #'s might not get to ride because others who paid for IA$ caused fewer BGs to be called that day.

How many BGs will actually be affected?  That depends on how many people pay for IA$.  If there are already a lot of IA$ reservations, they might not have a second BG drop at 1 pm because they might already be projecting that they won't get through all of the BGs distributed in the morning.  But, again, that all depends on how many people are willing to pay extra for that one ride.

My point is, I don't think they need to "hold back" any BG slots for IA$.  Those who purchase IA$ will simply get priority and slow down how quickly the BGs get called throughout the day.  The end result is the same... those who pay will ride and some who didn't pay (even though they may have obtained a BG) will not get to.

We're only visiting MK for the 50th next month, and then probably not back to WDW until 2023, so there will be plenty of time for me to observe how things pan out with BGs and IA$ before we actually get thrown into the fray.  I'm very interested to see how this affects ROTR.  Those with low BG #'s would almost certainly not pay, those with no BG may be more inclined to pay since the alternative will be no chance of riding.  But what about those with high BG #'s?  Do they gamble on getting called?  Or as the minutes tick by and the end of the day approaches (and still X # of BGs from their #), do they break down and pay to guarantee a ride?


----------



## btuftee

Grumpy by Birth said:


> I think that they would still give out the same number of BGs at 7 am that they usually do. Remember.... obtaining a BG does not guarantee you will be able to ride.



Hmm I was not aware of that - I figured if you got a boarding group it meant you pretty much had a slot in line (unless you just mean that no one is guaranteed to ride anything, because rides break down - in that case, yes, having a BG could be meaningless if the ride is out of commission half the day).  If the free BG slots can be entirely displaced by IA$, that will be a problem I think.  Disney still wants to maintain some balance of "free" and "pay for priority", I think the backlash will rise greatly if it turns out that ROTR and Rat effectively become paid add-ons on the busiest of days and no one gets to ride them with the base park admission ticket.  I don' t know what the fraction will be, but I am fairly confident there will be a split between the free BGs and the maximum allotment of IA$.


----------



## Grumpy by Birth

btuftee said:


> Hmm I was not aware of that - I figured if you got a boarding group it meant you pretty much had a slot in line (unless you just mean that no one is guaranteed to ride anything, because rides break down - in that case, yes, having a BG could be meaningless if the ride is out of commission half the day).  If the free BG slots can be entirely displaced by IA$, that will be a problem I think.  Disney still wants to maintain some balance of "free" and "pay for priority", I think the backlash will rise greatly if it turns out that ROTR and Rat effectively become paid add-ons on the busiest of days and no one gets to ride them with the base park admission ticket.  I don' t know what the fraction will be, but I am fairly confident there will be a split between the free BGs and the maximum allotment of IA$.


Ride breaking down is a significant factor (especially for ROTR) in how many BGs they get to each day.  But there are probably also times when they just aren't operating at peak efficiency and BGs get called more slowly as a result.  There are almost always higher # BGs that don't get called each day.  Adding IA$ into the mix will likely push some of those BGs on the borderline of getting called or not to the right and they don't get called because others got priority.

Even for ROTR, I don't envision IA$ replacing the majority of BG slots.  That would require LARGE quantities of guests willing to spend a LOT just to ride that one ride.  But theoretically, if enough are willing to pay, it could significantly reduce the number of free BG guests who get to ride.

Low BG numbers _shouldn't_ get affected drastically, but those with higher BG #'s would have their chance of getting called reduced slightly every time someone pays for IA$ access to the ride.


----------



## magickingdomprincess

Grumpy by Birth said:


> Disclaimer... the following is pure speculation on my part.
> 
> I think that they would still give out the same number of BGs at 7 am that they usually do.  Remember.... obtaining a BG does not guarantee you will be able to ride.  Throughout the day, as people pay for IA$ access to ROTR (or Remy), they will get priority over those with a BG #.  That will slow down the normal progression of getting through the BGs, meaning more people with higher BG #'s might not get to ride because others who paid for IA$ caused fewer BGs to be called that day.
> 
> How many BGs will actually be affected?  That depends on how many people pay for IA$.  If there are already a lot of IA$ reservations, they might not have a second BG drop at 1 pm because they might already be projecting that they won't get through all of the BGs distributed in the morning.  But, again, that all depends on how many people are willing to pay extra for that one ride.
> 
> My point is, I don't think they need to "hold back" any BG slots for IA$.  Those who purchase IA$ will simply get priority and slow down how quickly the BGs get called throughout the day.  The end result is the same... those who pay will ride and some who didn't pay (even though they may have obtained a BG) will not get to.
> 
> We're only visiting MK for the 50th next month, and then probably not back to WDW until 2023, so there will be plenty of time for me to observe how things pan out with BGs and IA$ before we actually get thrown into the fray.  I'm very interested to see how this affects ROTR.  Those with low BG #'s would almost certainly not pay, those with no BG may be more inclined to pay since the alternative will be no chance of riding.  But what about those with high BG #'s?  Do they gamble on getting called?  Or as the minutes tick by and the end of the day approaches (and still X # of BGs from their #), do they break down and pay to guarantee a ride?



So you're thinking the changes won't be in effect until after your visit?  We're going the 2nd week of Oct and I was kind of assuming that Genie+ would probably be in effect by then.


----------



## GatorChris

Somebody else said it. I just felt like it needed its own ad.


----------



## aviva5675

meremac said:


> Correct. They are separate and won't impact one another. I actually just finished a Genie training session. Genie+ is $15/person per day and includes unlimited Lightning Lane reservations for select attractions, but these reservations can only be made one at at time (onsite Resort Guests can make their first Genie+ reservation starting at 7am). A few super headliner attractions at each park will not be included in Genie+. Guests can access those by 1) Getting in the standby line (or joining a Virtual Queue for the few attractions that won't have standby, like RoTR and Rat); OR 2) Purchasing separate Lightning Lane access. For these super headliner attractions, there will be a limit of 2 Lightning Lane purchases per guest per day. Again, onsite Resort Guest can make their first purchase at 7am.




What about AP?  Can we make LL or LL$ at 7am regardless of if we are at a resort? We live in Fla and will try for BG at 7 am and then decide if we go over (of course, have a park res).  Not many perks here for AP, so that would be nice.


----------



## ThistleMae

From the announcement I read both onsite and offsite guests can book Genie+ at 7 a.m.  This was concerning.  Do we know this for sure?


----------



## Grumpy by Birth

magickingdomprincess said:


> So you're thinking the changes won't be in effect until after your visit?  We're going the 2nd week of Oct and I was kind of assuming that Genie+ would probably be in effect by then.


I think the changes may be in effect by October 1st, but we won't be visiting DHS or EP, so the IA$ vs. BG situation won't affect us.

If G+ is available, we will purchase (it's only two of us) for MK on October 1st to try it out, but I have no plans to pay extra for IA$ at MK even if it's offered by then.


----------



## mickeyluv'r

btuftee said:


> That's a tough standard - does anyone ever go to WDW and ride every ride they want, as many times as they want?  I don't think I've ever had that happen on a trip - there is always something left undone, something I would've ridden a few more times, etc.  It's about doing and seeing and experiencing enough to make you happy, for the time and effort you put in for the trip.  Certainly I get my fill of some rides, maybe even most rides, but if your standard is to do everything you want as many times as you want, no vacation destination can live up to that.



I don't suppose you're in WDW this week then? 

People in WDW this past week are reporting FoP near walk-on in the middle of the day!  As I type, Space Mtn/Buzz/PotC/BTMRR/Splash/Safari/Na'vi/Kali all have posted 5 min. waits!  Even HS: RNRC/ToT/MMRR/MF:SR are posted at 20min. FoP is posted at  just 10 min.


----------



## mickeyluv'r

nkereina said:


> Two very different concepts. The poster I quoted seemed to believe they _needed_ to pay additional to ride rides once they got in the park and that's just not true. Genie+ is optional and you can still ride rides without spending another dime once you enter the gates. That's a fact.
> 
> You're talking about relative value of the park ticket, which is totally different. I don't disagree that some of the value is lost now that the former FP queues can only be used by paying extra. But, that doesn't change the fact that it's inaccurate to say you *must* pay extra to ride rides. That's simply not true.
> 
> Clearly, it does need clarification because you're talking about two different things.



I've been reading the debate on Genie+, and while it will technically be true that we could use standby/free boarding pass, doing so might might = a very reduced experience (compared to paying the upcharge).  

FP+ changed over time. Back when it was new, there was no #4 FP, only #1-3.  And if you didn't book them in advance, they were nearly useless.  So like, if you waited until you were in MK to book them...well you were looking at a 20minute kiosk line to get like a teacups FP.  Maybe a 7pm Pooh.  ooh. 

Towards the end, FP+ got better with more flexibility, and it was possible to do pretty well via refreshing and last minute booking.  

But in the first two years, it absolutely didn't make sense to book a last minute trip to WDW, IMO. People with pre-booked FP rode 3 e-rides with a 15 min wait. people with no FP spent more like 70minutes in line for each e-ride: 45 minutes of waiting vs. 210 minutes of total frustration.

So while technically, you are correct, it is _possible _to spend 3 hours watching other people ride Space Mtn, ahead of you.  IMO, that's not in any way _my _idea of an enjoyable experience.   If few people use Genie+ or crowds are low enough, it might not make much of a difference.  If crowds are high, many people buy it, and/or WDW manipulates wait times, it might effectively be true that you actually do need to buy Genie+ to have a real shot at riding a _reasonable _number of attractions each day.   

Do you want to be a plebian or a patrician?


----------



## SL6827

ThistleMae said:


> From the announcement I read both onsite and offsite guests can book Genie+ at 7 a.m.  This was concerning.  Do we know this for sure?


If so, is the 30 minute early entry the only true perk of bring on-site now?


----------



## ThistleMae

My understanding is two perks, EMH 1/2 hour for moderate and value every day, two hours of EMH on Monday and Wednesday for deluxe, and the ability for all onsite to purchase the LL$ at 7 a.m.  But other folks in here seem to think the 7 a.m. Genie + is for offsite and onsite ability to purchase as well, so not sure which its going to be since there seems to be a difference of opinion on this one.


----------



## WVU Disney Fan

Any rumors in when this thing gets rolled out?


----------



## Marionnette

WVU Disney Fan said:


> Any rumors in when this thing gets rolled out?


Disney Parks Blog says it will roll out "this fall". That's anywhere between September 22 - December 1.

As we get closer to the 50th anniversary, I'm leaning toward "some date after 10/1. Genie+ and IA$ are bound to have hiccups during the early days of the roll out. Disney doesn't want it to affect their anniversary celebration in a negative way. I give it another week and if it's not up and running by then I don't think it will be out before the 50th.


----------



## ThistleMae

I think it will be out by mid-September based on feeling they should do it before Oct 1.  They've already announced it.  Next, the final details, next roll out by Sept. 15th.  Just my projection, we shall see. That gives them two weeks to identify the bugs before the 1st.


----------



## DisneyFive

ThistleMae said:


> My understanding is two perks, EMH 1/2 hour for moderate and value every day, two hours of EMH on Monday and Wednesday for deluxe, and the ability for all onsite to purchase the LL$ at 7 a.m.  But other folks in here seem to think the 7 a.m. Genie + is for offsite and onsite ability to purchase as well, so not sure which its going to be since there seems to be a difference of opinion on this one.



We'll have to see, but the way I read things is that onsite guests could book their first G+ attraction starting at 7am, and offsite would need to wait until they are in the parks before they can book their first G+ attraction.

Dan


----------



## Lehuaann

I just saw photos on twitter of the Lightning Lane signs. Many are just decals/stickers placed over embossed Fastpass signs (meaning, you can still see the outline of Fastpass).

Not surprised they weren’t ready for this


----------



## OhDannyBoy

ThistleMae said:


> I think it will be out by mid-September based on feeling they should do it before Oct 1.  They've already announced it.  Next, the final details, next roll out by Sept. 15th.  Just my projection, we shall see. That gives them two weeks to identify the bugs before the 1st.


That's what I was thinking. After the 50th, then you get the huge rush of holiday crowds. You'd think they want to have a month or so to work out kinks before the giant rush. 

I wouldn't be surprised if it starts right around the same time AP go on sale. 

I have no idea what I'm talking about though so take that for what it's worth. LOL


----------



## cygnusx1jg

Let's say they do indeed roll it out on September 15th (which is pure speculation). If so, how far prior to the date do you think they'll officially announce it?


----------



## SL6827

DisneyFive said:


> We'll have to see, but the way I read things is that onsite guests could book their first G+ attraction starting at 7am, and offsite would need to wait until they are in the parks before they can book their first G+ attraction.
> 
> Dan


Seems like I read that somewhere too.


----------



## KNovacovschi

So the LIghtning Lanes are up, replaced the FP name, now they can just release the date and not just say this fall. I would love for it to be available before Sept 18th.


----------



## nkereina

mickeyluv'r said:


> while it will technically be true that we could use standby/free boarding pass, doing so might might = a very reduced experience (compared to paying the upcharge).


If it functions like MaxPass, as the initial details are sounding, this will not be the case. 



mickeyluv'r said:


> so while technically, you are correct, it is _possible _to spend 3 hours watching other people ride Space Mtn, ahead of you. IMO, that's not in any way _my _idea of an enjoyable experience.


That would be no one's idea of an enjoyable experience. None of us are privy to the modeling the powers that be most likely did while designing this, but I can almost bet that their models did not show enough people purchasing Genie+ that would result in a 3 hour standby for Space Mountain. Except maybe on Christmas Day or something like that. We also don't know if Disney will cap the number of people who can buy Genie+ in a given day. They already cap park reservations, and Universal caps their Express Pass (in other words, it can sell out). I think it would be wise for them to at least say they are capping it because it will increase the urgency for people to buy it, thus resulting in more purchases because of the fear it will sell out. And I bet they did modeling to account for this too.


----------



## champagne&disney

KNovacovschi said:


> So the LIghtning Lanes are up, replaced the FP name, now they can just release the date and not just say this fall. I would love for it to be available before Sept 18th.


Me too! I'm so ready for Genie+ and hoping it's ready for October 1. I so preferred the MaxPass at DLR over FP+ because you didn't have to compete with people for slots 60/30 days ahead of time and then still not get what you wanted. Yes, it's an extra cost, but it should level the playing field for people who take last minute trips or don't want the stress of planning the entire trip 60 days out. 

Now let's hope ADRs stay 60 days out because 180 days ahead was too much.


----------



## ThistleMae

cygnusx1jg said:


> Let's say they do indeed roll it out on September 15th (which is pure speculation). If so, how far prior to the date do you think they'll officially announce it?


I'd say any time now, but my guess would be 10 days prior...if indeed it might be the 15th.  Total guess.


----------



## ThistleMae

Lehuaann said:


> I just saw photos on twitter of the Lightning Lane signs. Many are just decals/stickers placed over embossed Fastpass signs (meaning, you can still see the outline of Fastpass).
> 
> Not surprised they weren’t ready for this


Omg...is that a joke?  It has to be.  I would just die laughing if they really did this!


----------



## lorileahb

Has anyone been able to see what the app itself will look like?  In a test environment or any other way?


----------



## mickeyluv'r

nkereina said:


> That would be no one's idea of an enjoyable experience. None of us are privy to the modeling the powers that be most likely did while designing this, but I can almost bet that their models did not show enough people purchasing Genie+ that would result in a 3 hour standby for Space Mountain. Except maybe on Christmas Day or something like that. We also don't know if Disney will cap the number of people who can buy Genie+ in a given day. They already cap park reservations, and Universal caps their Express Pass (in other words, it can sell out). I think it would be wise for them to at least say they are capping it because it will increase the urgency for people to buy it, thus resulting in more purchases because of the fear it will sell out. And I bet they did modeling to account for this too.


Here's a little more of what I said:



mickeyluv'r said:


> But in the first two years, it absolutely didn't make sense to book a last minute trip to WDW, IMO. _People with pre-booked FP rode 3 e-rides with a 15 min wait. People with no FP spent more like 70minutes in line for each e-ride: 45 minutes of waiting vs. 210 minutes of total frustration._
> 
> So while technically, you are correct, it is _possible _to spend 3 hours watching other people ride Space Mtn, ahead of you.



When I said Space Mtn in the last sentence of the above quote, it was shorthand in the context of the sentence that preceded it. I have absolutely seen the MK mountains all with 60+ posted as the standby wait.

[Yikes- someone reported July MK posted wait times for July 2021:  95 minutes for PotC (though they actually waited quit a bit less), HM actual 50min wait, Space was posted 70, Barnstormer at 50, Smuggler's at 130(!), another poster reported actual 50 for Space Mtn. mid-July.]

No, I have not seen Space at 3 hour wait, nor do I think that will happen. That'd be pretty horrible.

On the other hand, monetizing wait times = an incentive for Disney to sustain wait times above a certain threshold.  People won't buy LL if wait times are too short. Will people buy LL to get around a 20minute wait?  40min?  60min?

For me, one downside of FP+ was that your could only get 1 FP for each attraction. It might be a little bit fun if Genie+ now lets me ride BTMRR 3 times in a row. We'll see.


----------



## JakeAZ

lorileahb said:


> Has anyone been able to see what the app itself will look like?  In a test environment or any other way?


I believe it's just going to be integrated into MDE, not a separate app.


----------



## Lehuaann

ThistleMae said:


> Omg...is that a joke?  It has to be.  I would just die laughing if they really did this!



Sadly, no. Look closely. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1433440397821456391


----------



## JakeAZ

Lehuaann said:


> Sadly, no. Look closely.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1433440397821456391


I’m sure once the sweet, sweet Genie money starts to roll in, they’ll update the signs.


----------



## ThistleMae

Lehuaann said:


> Sadly, no. Look closely.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1433440397821456391


That is ridiculous...they couldn't afford new signs...I don't know what to feel about this, just too shoddy.  I guess this is a DIY attempt.


----------



## cakebaker

ThistleMae said:


> Omg...is that a joke?  It has to be.  I would just die laughing if they really did this!



That's exactly what I thought too, it has to be a joke. Are they seriously going to leave it like that? I'm beginning to wonder just how low quality is going to drop. First a DJ to rush guests out the MK and now too cheap to even get a new sign. They might as well have written over it with a magic marker. It's just pathetically sad. I still believe it's a joke- it  has to be.


----------



## ThistleMae

Well, the signs for LL are going up.  They are on Small World and Jungle Cruise and Soarin'.  Could be more but that's what I saw so far, and they looked better than the one that covered up FP+ from what I could see.


----------



## twodogs

For those who do not like the idea of G+ or will not pay for G+, would you rather that the FP+ system was left as-was, and ticket prices were raised across the board by $15/day/person (ie a 5 day ticket would have a price increase of $75 per person)?  I am asking this question honestly, as I would rather have the option to buy or not buy this add-on, rather than have ticket prices raised for all tickets.


----------



## Turksmom

twodogs said:


> For those who do not like the idea of G+ or will not pay for G+, would you rather that the FP+ system was left as-was, and ticket prices were raised across the board by $15/day/person (ie a 5 day ticket would have a price increase of $75 per person)?  I am asking this question honestly, as I would rather have the option to buy or not buy this add-on, rather than have ticket prices raised for all tickets.


Honestly, I would. Disney vacations are expensive. I'd really like the assurance that I can do my family's "must do" activities while I can still make adjustments to my plans.


----------



## serenitygr

I’m just sitting here thinking “please put one on Peter Pan…. Soarin….jungle cruise…. Basically all my favorites just so I know they won’t be in the other category of “pay per ride”


----------



## CBMom01

serenitygr said:


> I’m just sitting here thinking “please put one on Peter Pan…. Soarin….jungle cruise…. Basically all my favorites just so I know they won’t be in the other category of “pay per ride”


My thoughts exactly.


----------



## TeddieM

twodogs said:


> For those who do not like the idea of G+ or will not pay for G+, would you rather that the FP+ system was left as-was, and ticket prices were raised across the board by $15/day/person (ie a 5 day ticket would have a price increase of $75 per person)?  I am asking this question honestly, as I would rather have the option to buy or not buy this add-on, rather than have ticket prices raised for all tickets.



I think a lot of people would have preferred Disney just went this route - it's not fun to continually go into your wallet on a vacation and have to make decisions if you should pay to do something or not. Nickel and diming people on a vacation just gets tiresome.


----------



## scrappinginontario

twodogs said:


> For those who do not like the idea of G+ or will not pay for G+, would you rather that the FP+ system was left as-was, and ticket prices were raised across the board by $15/day/person (ie a 5 day ticket would have a price increase of $75 per person)?  I am asking this question honestly, as I would rather have the option to buy or not buy this add-on, rather than have ticket prices raised for all tickets.


While I think this is a good option, it takes away the fact that Disney is now charging an up charge for some rides (SDMT, FoP, etc).

I like the option to add it when I choose to as we travel during lower crowd times.


----------



## JakeAZ

twodogs said:


> For those who do not like the idea of G+ or will not pay for G+, would you rather that the FP+ system was left as-was, and ticket prices were raised across the board by $15/day/person (ie a 5 day ticket would have a price increase of $75 per person)?  I am asking this question honestly, as I would rather have the option to buy or not buy this add-on, rather than have ticket prices raised for all tickets.


I wouldn't want it built into the price.

I'm not a fan of the system, but I like that I can pick and choose if / when I want to use it.

I also like that by making it a separate add-on, less people will (most likely) use it, which will make it (hopefully) more valuable to have.


----------



## Marcus A. Jordan

I wonder how many people will pay for Genie+. If Disney doesn’t oversell it, it could be a great option to have.

Also if you’re not at the park in the early morning, will there be anything good left to warrant paying?


----------



## Kbrb

That signage is the best, I imagine Chepek waiting for the guests to go home and running around the parks himself armed with paint and stickers. 

I hope they use this tactic on splash mountain, just use a bit of paint and stickers over Rabbit and Bingo hes a crocodile. 

Or better yet the Epcot refurb.  The jumping water fountains will have a sticker of Moana on them.


----------



## luv2cheer92

serenitygr said:


> I’m just sitting here thinking “please put one on Peter Pan…. Soarin….jungle cruise…. Basically all my favorites just so I know they won’t be in the other category of “pay per ride”





CBMom01 said:


> My thoughts exactly.


The pay per ride rides will still have Lightning Lanes. That's the name of the line.


----------



## bloomcruisers

If offsite guests have to wait till they enter the park to register each day (which I understand isn’t quite clear yet) will you be able to pick that first attraction before confirming that you want to spend the money. I would hate to spend $15 x6 then find out the only thing left is a bunch of low crowd level rides. In other words will it be register and pick your first ride then put in CC info to confirm? Or register and pay, then get to see what your choices are?


----------



## OhDannyBoy

bloomcruisers said:


> If offsite guests have to wait till they enter the park to register each day (which I understand isn’t quite clear yet) will you be able to pick that first attraction before confirming that you want to spend the money. I would hate to spend $15 x6 then find out the only thing left is a bunch of low crowd level rides. In other words will it be register and pick your first ride then put in CC info to confirm? Or register and pay, then get to see what your choices are?


I doubt you'd be able to see availability until you pay. Be nice if you could.

If you can't "preview" (for lack of a better word) maybe you can only buy it for 1 ticket so your only gambling $15. see what's available, and commit the other 5 assuming that will be allowed.


----------



## JakeAZ

OhDannyBoy said:


> I doubt you'd be able to see availability until you pay. Be nice if you could.


I actually think they will let you see what's available and what you are "missing out on" by not buying Genie.

It might show up as "only available with Genie+"


----------



## condorthb

JakeAZ said:


> I actually think they will let you see what's available and what you are "missing out on" by not buying Genie.
> 
> It might show up as "only available with Genie+"


makes sense.


----------



## OhDannyBoy

JakeAZ said:


> I actually think they will let you see what's available and what you are "missing out on" by not buying Genie.
> 
> It might show up as "only available with Genie+"


Could be. That would be nice and makes sense actually.


----------



## Kbrb

Does anyone really think disney will tell selected guests when to ride something for a shorter wait time? IE the free  version will actually help and do what its supposed to 

Or will they play with it to dump you in a long long line while sending you notifications to end the nightmare for $15. They can more or less do what ever they want data wise.


----------



## DisneyFive

twodogs said:


> For those who do not like the idea of G+ or will not pay for G+, would you rather that the FP+ system was left as-was, and ticket prices were raised across the board by $15/day/person (ie a 5 day ticket would have a price increase of $75 per person)?  I am asking this question honestly, as I would rather have the option to buy or not buy this add-on, rather than have ticket prices raised for all tickets.



Problem is G+ and FP+ are comparing apples to oranges.  They aren't the same, and G+ is actually quite inferior.

FP+ allowed the ability to pre-book 3 rides per day for the entire duration of your stay.  This is HUGE.
FP+ was available for almost ALL attractions, including the top headliners.  None of this pay per ride nonsense.
I guess to answer your questions, if in fact we could have the old FP+ system back, and increase the per ticket price by $15 per person per day I would GLADLY do that versus this new G+ and pay per ride system.

G+ and pay per ride will appeal the lowest common denominator guest...  those that refused to put any effort into planning their vacation.  Everything is day of now.  No ability to pre plan (other than reserving which park they are going to any particular day).   So now, those of us that actually would put effort into their vacation beforehand get forced into waking up early each day of our stay to start finding those precious attractions, some of which won't even be an option (due to pay per ride)

Dan


----------



## JakeAZ

Kbrb said:


> Does anyone really think disney will tell selected guests when to ride something for a shorter wait time? IE the free  version will actually help and do what its supposed to
> 
> Or will they play with it to dump you in a long long line while sending you notifications to end the nightmare for $15. They can more or less do what ever they want data wise.


I see the free version being (maybe) helpful on a low / moderate crowd day.  It can see what lines look like and help you pick the right ones to get into.

However, I just don't see it being able to do much on high crowd days (which is what the parks will be like starting Oct 1)


----------



## Landry

DisneyFive said:


> Problem is G+ and FP+ are comparing apples to oranges.  They aren't the same, and G+ is actually quite inferior.
> 
> FP+ allowed the ability to pre-book 3 rides per day for the entire duration of your stay.  This is HUGE.
> FP+ was available for almost ALL attractions, including the top headliners.  None of this pay per ride nonsense.
> I guess to answer your questions, if in fact we could have the old FP+ system back, and increase the per ticket price by $15 per person per day I would GLADLY do that versus this new G+ and pay per ride system.
> 
> G+ and pay per ride will appeal the lowest common denominator guest...  those that refused to put any effort into planning their vacation.  Everything is day of now.  No ability to pre plan (other than reserving which park they are going to any particular day).   So now, those of us that actually would put effort into their vacation beforehand get forced into waking up early each day of our stay to start finding those precious attractions, some of which won't even be an option (due to pay per ride)
> 
> Dan



FP+ wasn't nearly as good as MaxPass. FP+ had all the rides booked up before the day of while MaxPass gave you lots of opportunities for every ride more than once each day the time we were out at DisneyLand. G+ is a mix of FP+ & MaxPass (leaning more towards MaxPass) minus the headliners. We all have to get used to not being able to get on the top 2 rides for each park via LL's.


----------



## Marionnette

Landry said:


> FP+ wasn't nearly as good as MaxPass. *FP+ had all the rides booked up before the day of* while MaxPass gave you lots of opportunities for every ride more than once each day the time we were out at DisneyLand. G+ is a mix of FP+ & MaxPass (leaning more towards MaxPass) minus the headliners. We all have to get used to not being able to get on the top 2 rides for each park via LL's.


That's a false statement. There were always plenty of FP+ available the day of. Even FOP FP+ could be obtained because Disney would drop more into the system in the late morning.


----------



## cjlong88

DisneyFive said:


> G+ and pay per ride will appeal the lowest common denominator guest...  those that refused to put any effort into planning their vacation.  Everything is day of now.  No ability to pre plan (other than reserving which park they are going to any particular day).   So now, those of us that actually would put effort into their vacation beforehand get forced into waking up early each day of our stay to start finding those precious attractions, some of which won't even be an option (due to pay per ride)



The people who don't put any effort into planning their vacation to WDW probably won't know about Genie+ just like they didn't know about FP+. These are the same people who stroll into the park at 10am and are shocked that it's busy. As the planners, we will always have the advantage because we will have various tools and strategies to lower our wait times. And even if they do know about Genie+, that doesn't necessarily mean they will know how to use it effectively so they can get the most of out of their experience (just like FP+).


----------



## OhDannyBoy

DisneyFive said:


> G+ and pay per ride will appeal the lowest common denominator guest...  those that refused to put any effort into planning their vacation.  Everything is day of now.  No ability to pre plan (other than reserving which park they are going to any particular day).   So now, those of us that actually would put effort into their vacation beforehand get forced into waking up early each day of our stay to start finding those precious attractions, some of which won't even be an option (due to pay per ride)
> 
> Dan


What makes you think the guest who knew nothing of FP+ will know anything about Genie+?

Relax, as soon as this rolls out and the wonderful people here on this board get to using it, you'll figure out how to use it to your advantage just like you did with FP+.


----------



## Orsino

twodogs said:


> For those who do not like the idea of G+ or will not pay for G+, would you rather that the FP+ system was left as-was, and ticket prices were raised across the board by $15/day/person (ie a 5 day ticket would have a price increase of $75 per person)?  I am asking this question honestly, as I would rather have the option to buy or not buy this add-on, rather than have ticket prices raised for all tickets.



Genie+ exists as a hammer for Annual Passes. As you say, Disney could have raised ticket prices by 15 dollars per person per day for 'normal' tickets, but they can't put as simple a price increase on Annual Passes. I view genie+ as a way to make annual passes have a quasi-sliding scale pricing. People who go to WDW with an annual pass and want Genie+ will have to pay more than annual passholders who go less.

My wild and unfounded guess is that FP+ was best understood and therefore leveraged by Annual Passholders. Experience matters! Cutting AP powerusers out of the FP racket unless they pony up more money is Disney's "solution" to making the experience better for less experienced guests.


----------



## twodogs

DisneyFive said:


> Problem is G+ and FP+ are comparing apples to oranges.  They aren't the same, and G+ is actually quite inferior.
> 
> FP+ allowed the ability to pre-book 3 rides per day for the entire duration of your stay.  This is HUGE.
> FP+ was available for almost ALL attractions, including the top headliners.  None of this pay per ride nonsense.
> I guess to answer your questions, if in fact we could have the old FP+ system back, and increase the per ticket price by $15 per person per day I would GLADLY do that versus this new G+ and pay per ride system.
> 
> G+ and pay per ride will appeal the lowest common denominator guest...  those that refused to put any effort into planning their vacation.  Everything is day of now.  No ability to pre plan (other than reserving which park they are going to any particular day).   So now, those of us that actually would put effort into their vacation beforehand get forced into waking up early each day of our stay to start finding those precious attractions, some of which won't even be an option (due to pay per ride)
> 
> Dan


Thank you for that thoughtful response.  It has been interesting to see the various responses on this; Disney could not make everyone happy no matter what they chose.  For me, I thought FP+ really penalized the last minute visitor over the person who booked the trip months ahead.  As a planner, it was ok by me, but I could see last minute trips would be disadvantaged (but could still take advantage of "refresh").

To your first statement, unfortunately, I don't think Disney was trying to improve the guest experience or create a superior product _for the guest_ by changing to G+.  They are trying to increase profits.   And they will keep doing that in various ways until the changes make enough people lose value in the experience to cause a loss of profits.  Then they have found the tipping point.  I don't think they have found it yet, based on these boards and attendance at the parks and the special events.  So I expect them to keep pushing and pushing until they find that point, back off slightly, and sit there and rake in the cash.  And I will have to see for me personally where my tipping point is.  Right now, I am willing to try G+ because I loved MP at DLR so much and felt it was a good value for my family/touring style and much better than FP+.  Time will tell for me, and for many of us.


----------



## ZeeWP

For the IA$, how does Disneyland Paris do it? There is a chance they might do it the same way. I was hoping it was gonna be like, "There is a Lightning Lane pass for Slinky Dog Dash at 10:30 AM for 10 dollars. would you like to purchase?" But would that be to Disney's benefit?


----------



## ZeeWP

I just looked it up (https://www.disneylandparis.com/en-us/attractions/disney-premier-access/). If you can see the picture below, it is saying that there is a pass at that time and you can buy it. It doesn't have the cost on that page though.

ETA: no this one I found has all the info before you buy.


----------



## ThistleMae

I'm looking at different boards and articles everyday to learn more and get opinions.  Is it me or is interest dropping off on this subject?


----------



## itf

ThistleMae said:


> I'm looking at different boards and articles everyday to learn more and get opinions.  Is it me or is interest dropping off on this subject?



not much more to say untiI we see the reality on the ground I guess.


----------



## shawthorne44

OhDannyBoy said:


> What makes you think the guest who knew nothing of FP+ will know anything about Genie+?



Caveat:  I am someone that was hoping for a MaxPass-ish replacement for FP+, and I would have paid for the cell phone option.   So, I'm happy about Genie+.  

But as someone that loves to research vacations, I can maximize any these systems as long as it is out for long enough for others to figure out.   Or, at least I'm told all the rules.  

But, I suspect that Genie+ will be so easy, the average clueless guest will be on equal footing. It will keep saying "Here is the next rides passes." So, no more, Grab 4th FP+ and Modify. 

There isn't much hope that people wouldn't know about it, since the MDE will push it.


----------



## Peach026

I am confused on how Genie + will work at WDW regarding memory maker... Hoping you guys can help! We always buy MM, sounds like its added on G+ - but only for the day?? Add to the mix - PER PERSON where before MM was you just buy it once for your party. I'm totally lost here, help a girl out please !


----------



## mom2rtk

Peach026 said:


> I am confused on how Genie + will work at WDW regarding memory maker... Hoping you guys can help! We always buy MM, sounds like its added on G+ - but only for the day?? Add to the mix - PER PERSON where before MM was you just buy it once for your party. I'm totally lost here, help a girl out please !


You will still need to purchase MM separately at WDW.


----------



## luv2cheer92

Peach026 said:


> I am confused on how Genie + will work at WDW regarding memory maker... Hoping you guys can help! We always buy MM, sounds like its added on G+ - but only for the day?? Add to the mix - PER PERSON where before MM was you just buy it once for your party. I'm totally lost here, help a girl out please !


Memory Maker is only included at DLR. It is still a separate package at WDW.


----------



## charmed59

DisneyFive said:


> G+ and pay per ride will appeal the lowest common denominator guest...  those that refused to put any effort into planning their vacation.



I’m not sure you and Disney agree on the lowest common denominator guest.


----------



## Peach026

luv2cheer92 said:


> Memory Maker is only included at DLR. It is still a separate package at WDW.


Thank you! HOW DISAPPOINTING! I think this is an AP year for us, so I'll have to get the add on. BLEH.


----------



## shawthorne44

Peach026 said:


> I am confused on how Genie + will work at WDW regarding memory maker... Hoping you guys can help! We always buy MM, sounds like its added on G+ - but only for the day?? Add to the mix - PER PERSON where before MM was you just buy it once for your party. I'm totally lost here, help a girl out please !



My understanding is that there isn't any photo add-on at WDW. The MaxPass at DL had that. 
You should be able to just buy the memory maker like you did before. 

G+ is more a replacement for FP+ than the memory maker.


----------



## DisneyFive

charmed59 said:


> I’m not sure you and Disney agree on the lowest common denominator guest.


You may be right 

Dan


----------



## Cj2017

Do we think this is still going to launch by October 1st?


----------



## luv2cheer92

Cj2017 said:


> Do we think this is still going to launch by October 1st?


I would say yes since they've been putting up signs.


----------



## cakebaker

Cj2017 said:


> Do we think this is still going to launch by October 1st?



I think it's going to be before the 1st. My guess is the massive issues they're more than likely to have isn't how they want to start the big anniversary celebration, but better to let guests coming before then be the testers.  I wouldn't expect much of a heads up as to when it starts either.


----------



## Cj2017

cakebaker said:


> I think it's going to be before the 1st. My guess is the massive issues they're more than likely to have isn't how they want to start the big anniversary celebration, but better to let guests coming before then be the testers.  I wouldn't expect much of a heads up as to when it starts either.




 I'm not an expert but would they really spring this with a couple of weeks' notice? I would thinks at least a couple months but than again I'm not expert.


----------



## shawthorne44

Cj2017 said:


> I'm not an expert but would they really spring this with a couple of weeks' notice? I would thinks at least a couple months but than again I'm not expert.




Why would they start now?


----------



## elgerber

Cj2017 said:


> I'm not an expert but would they really spring this with a couple of weeks' notice? I would thinks at least a couple months but than again I'm not expert.


I wouldn’t put it past them to start it with virtually no notice to maybe not overload the system at 7am on day 1


----------



## cakebaker

Cj2017 said:


> I'm not an expert but would they really spring this with a couple of weeks' notice? I would thinks at least a couple months but than again I'm not expert.



I think they might just spring it with no notice at all, or just a few days.  It's not like it has to be bought in advance.


----------



## NuJoy

()


----------



## twincruisers

I would guess they want to soft open G+ and IA$ In mid-Sept before the bigger crowds arrive. After Oct 1st, it seems like crowds or holidays will make it harder to soft launch without large crowds.


----------



## DebbieB

shawthorne44 said:


> My understanding is that there isn't any photo add-on at WDW. The MaxPass at DL had that.
> You should be able to just buy the memory maker like you did before.
> 
> G+ is more a replacement for FP+ than the memory maker.



it‘s a $99 add on to an annual pass.


----------



## Orsino

OhDannyBoy said:


> What makes you think the guest who knew nothing of FP+ will know anything about Genie+?



FP+ had the unfortunate timing that if someone showed up on property clueless, their entire vacation was already hosed with no way of recovering from the lack of pre-booked FP+. "Oh! You should have booked these 30 (or 60!) days ago. Too bad, so sad, nothing you can do now. And nothing you can do about your park days for the next six days either."

With Genie+, a clueless guest can become clue-full and use Genie+ for the rest of the day and for the rest of the trip. "Oh! you can sign up for Genie+ right now, if you want." or worst case "Sign up for Genie+ *tomorrow*"


----------



## sagosto

Orsino said:


> FP+ had the unfortunate timing that if someone showed up on property clueless, their entire vacation was already hosed with no way of recovering from the lack of pre-booked FP+. "Oh! You should have booked these 30 (or 60!) days ago. Too bad, so sad, nothing you can do now. And nothing you can do about your park days for the next six days either."
> 
> With Genie+, a clueless guest can become clue-full and use Genie+ for the rest of the day and for the rest of the trip. "Oh! you can sign up for Genie+ right now, if you want." or worst case "Sign up for Genie+ *tomorrow*"


and I am not being punished for this.


----------



## tony67

Yeah I suspect they will just turn it on - maybe around the 15th so they have two weeks of testing with reasonable crowds.  They may just turn on the "free" part at first (Not really sure what that gets you) or even offer + at at a nominal fee so people cant complain about glitches.    People will see people using the LL and ask about it and it will snowball.

That how Id do it, but being Disney they may just turn it on on the 15th a full price and say have a magical day.

BTW - as a solo traveler who does not want to plan every minute of every day months in advance this will get me back to Disney after a 5+ year absence.


----------



## _19disnA

We were last at Disney in 2019 and used FastPass.  You could only pre-reserve 3 rides each day, so we never found it any great advantage after that.  Typically, you use it on the most popular rides to avoid long lines.  We were also able to get a few additional ones after we used up the 3.  The main issue was how crowded the parks were even mid-week.  No amount of advance planning anyone can do will make the crowds any less.  Neither FastPass nor Genie will solve that issue.  Some of the details about pricing with Genie haven't yet been announced so will wait until the entire program is rolled out to see how it works.

There are constant threads on here about Disney IT issues.  Will be interesting to see if Genie is any better.  I can see it being a disaster if you can only start reserving for the current day @ 7am and the system is either overloaded or down.


----------



## ThistleMae

_19disnA said:


> We were last at Disney in 2019 and used FastPass.  You could only pre-reserve 3 rides each day, so we never found it any great advantage after that.  Typically, you use it on the most popular rides to avoid long lines.  We were also able to get a few additional ones after we used up the 3.  The main issue was how crowded the parks were even mid-week.  No amount of advance planning anyone can do will make the crowds any less.  Neither FastPass nor Genie will solve that issue.  Some of the details about pricing with Genie haven't yet been announced so will wait until the entire program is rolled out to see how it works.
> 
> There are constant threads on here about Disney IT issues.  Will be interesting to see if Genie is any better.  I can see it being a disaster if you can only start reserving for the current day @ 7am and the system is either overloaded or down.


You're right, if the Genie + isn't working due to IT issues, it will be even more disliked, or even hated!  Let's hope IT got it correct this time.  We shall see.  I also think it will be rolling out before the 1st, while crowds are lower right now.  Stay tuned!


----------



## Orsino

While genie+ won’t necessarily reduce the number of people in each park, the broader use of standby could reduce the number of people in the walkways thereby making the park ‘feel’ less crowded. 
with FP+ something like 1 standby rose for every 10 FP. If the ratio is better with genie then the standby lines could be longer while having the same or shorter wait time. More people in line means fewer people in the walkways. This was an observable effect of the fastpass era. All those people not in a standby line had to be somewhere.

I’m curious to see if they will launch genie+ before October 1. My bet is against a September launch. Right now lines are crazy low. Anyone planning a ‘fall’ trip has good reason to push into October for the new stuff. September should stay quiet. Launching genie+ with low crowds and low wait times would likely fail on the money side. Those executives want to put up good numbers. I think They will wait.


----------



## Grumpy by Birth

I'm not sure when Disney will officially launch Genie + and IA$ access to the Lightning Lanes.  But I predict that whenever they _do _launch, they will charge full price on day one and not give out any "free samples" while they iron out any kinks.


----------



## scrappinginontario

Grumpy by Birth said:


> I'm not sure when Disney will official launch Genie + and IA$ access to the Lightning Lanes.  But I predict that whenever they _do _launch, they will charge full price on day one and not give out any "free samples" while they iron out any kinks.


It’s hard to tell.  While I don’t see the same thing happening, I remember being at Pop when they were first introducing MagicBands to 4 or 5 resorts.  We had one trip where we were able to use both paper FPs and MBs, sometimes holding 5 or 6 each at a single time. I can see them possibly rolling it out for free for a bit to some (possibly APs, DVC, Deluxe??) to help them give it a test drive.

But that’s purely a guess based on my experience testing MBs.


----------



## Disney mac

ThistleMae said:


> You're right, if the Genie + isn't working due to IT issues, it will be even more disliked, or even hated!  Let's hope IT got it correct this time.  We shall see.  I also think it will be rolling out before the 1st, while crowds are lower right now.  Stay tuned!


Hadn't thought about tech issues.  But I am sure there are a lot of things about this that have not been thought out.  I was told that FP was created as a way to get people out of line, because in line, people don't spend money.  I wonder what the "Freakonomics" side of this will be?


----------



## ThistleMae

Disney mac said:


> Hadn't thought about tech issues.  But I am sure there are a lot of things about this that have not been thought out.  I was told that FP was created as a way to get people out of line, because in line, people don't spend money.  I wonder what the "Freakonomics" side of this will be?


I don't know, but lets hope we hear soon.  I think the fact they are putting up LL signs right now is significant.


----------



## tony67

ThistleMae said:


> I also think it will be rolling out before the 1st, while crowds are lower right now.


That is the entire reason to roll it out sooner - if you roll it out when the parks are busy you are asking for trouble.
Also cant roll it out when the parks are busy to a small group of people, - like they did with magic bands, that will just annoy people even more - not that Disney cares


----------



## Grasshopper2016

One question I have about Genie+.  Let's say that you use a Lightning Lane pass (for lack of a better word), and then you go onto the app to choose your next one.  You select the best option you see, but you're not totally thrilled with it.  Will you be able to change it, or are you locked in?  If changing is possible, then it seems likely that people will be canceling and switching them around.   Which in turn means that you will be able to "refresh" to see if a better option --- ride or time --- pops up.  In addition, if Disney periodically dumps more LL times into the system --- in order to avoid a situation where the best rides are filling up all day by 9:00 or 10:00 am, which would really anger the paying customers --- then that too would be an incentive to keep "refreshing" in the hopes of catching one.

In other words, is the "refresh" method dead, or has it just changed platforms?


----------



## shawthorne44

The speculation is that G+ will be like MaxPass.    So, they give you the next available time, however long that time is in the future.    It might be for 3pm when you get it at 11am.   At some point in the day the popular rides would run out of passes.    That the next ride reservation was 4 hours in the future wasn't that big of a problem because you could reserve another with 90 minutes or 2 hours (I forget) after you'd gotten your last one, or you used it, whichever came first.  

Whether you could modify one you got, I don't know. I think the basic idea is that you do something that doesn't require a LL while you are waiting.


----------



## Violetspider

Grasshopper2016 said:


> One question I have about Genie+.  Let's say that you use a Lightning Lane pass (for lack of a better word), and then you go onto the app to choose your next one.  You select the best option you see, but you're not totally thrilled with it.  Will you be able to change it, or are you locked in?  If changing is possible, then it seems likely that people will be canceling and switching them around.   Which in turn means that you will be able to "refresh" to see if a better option --- ride or time --- pops up.  In addition, if Disney periodically dumps more LL times into the system --- in order to avoid a situation where the best rides are filling up all day by 9:00 or 10:00 am, which would really anger the paying customers --- then that too would be an incentive to keep "refreshing" in the hopes of catching one.
> 
> In other words, is the "refresh" method dead, or has it just changed platforms?


I would image that modifying and/or canceling will be a probability. Which would also mean "refreshing" will be alive and well. Stacking, like MaxPass, is a complete unknown. Nothing that Disney has put in print would indicate that will be possible, which really makes or brakes G+ for me.


----------



## Coconut8473

Apologies if this was answered earlier in this (or another) thread. Does anyone know if G+ pricing be similar to Park Hopper where you have to apply it to all days of your ticket, or will you be able to pick and choose which day(s) to buy/apply it to? For example, if I have a 7 day ticket, but only want G+ for 3 of those days, is that an option? All of their verbiage talks about the flexibility of G+, and adding options a la carte, but I haven't seen this situation called out specifically, unless I missed it.


----------



## scrappinginontario

Coconut8473 said:


> Apologies if this was answered earlier in this (or another) thread. Does anyone know if G+ pricing be similar to Park Hopper where you have to apply it to all days of your ticket, or will you be able to pick and choose which day(s) to buy/apply it to? For example, if I have a 7 day ticket, but only want G+ for 3 of those days, is that an option? All of their verbiage talks about the flexibility of G+, and adding options a la carte, but I haven't seen this situation called out specifically, unless I missed it.


It appears you will be able to add it to specific dates but many details have not been announced yet so this is not confirmed.


----------



## JustinS30

Been trying to scan this thread for an answer so my apologies if this has been answered. What I’m curious about, is when purchasing Genie+ (the $15/day option) do I need to purchase for every day of my trip, or and I pick and choose certain days to purchase, while skipping some?


----------



## shawthorne44

They've said that you can add it to your tickets or anytime the day of.    
I assume that means if you add it to your tickets, it will be for every day.   Anytime the day of, starts at midnight.   So, you could be up at say 6:30am, add G+, then be ready to add your first G+ ride reservation.  
I think people are going to not want to bother with adding G+ before they use it, so will add it to the ticket. I know I will.


----------



## scrappinginontario

JustinS30 said:


> Been trying to scan this thread for an answer so my apologies if this has been answered. What I’m curious about, is when purchasing Genie+ (the $15/day option) do I need to purchase for every day of my trip, or and I pick and choose certain days to purchase, while skipping some?


Please see message directly above your question.


----------



## MrBellatrixLestrange

twodogs said:


> For those who do not like the idea of G+ or will not pay for G+, would you rather that the FP+ system was left as-was, and ticket prices were raised across the board by $15/day/person (ie a 5 day ticket would have a price increase of $75 per person)?  I am asking this question honestly, as I would rather have the option to buy or not buy this add-on, rather than have ticket prices raised for all tickets.


I think it's worth noting that to get the same revenue bump any price increase could have been substantially lower as it would have been spread across all new tickets, even assuming most guests to the Magic Kingdom and Hollywood Studios (I think many such as myself will pass on it at least for Epcot and the Animal Kingdom) purchase the new Genie+ the cost will be borne by a much smaller group of people meaning the increase per person had to be substantially more to get to the same point.  Sure, tickets that had already been sold and AP holders might have escaped the price increase but I suspect the number of Genie+ sales will still be a substantially smaller number than new ticket sales by a large margin going forward.  Now, is it more fair to make the people that are using the new system pay the price?  Probably but if the new system isn't what people wanted making them pay for it is going to anger them because it really isn't about benefitting the customer but about increasing their revenue, pretending it's somehow a response to customer demands or an improvement they were clamoring for is disingenuous.

As to your actual question, from a purely selfish perspective I would have preferred the price increase as it wouldn't have retroactively increased my costs since I already have my tickets.  However I would have been irritated either way because I think Disney is doing quite fine in terms of their bottom line and with some park amenities on hold or completely done away with they seem to be taking advantage of the current circumstances to both reduce services and increase prices simultaneously.  The cost increase is neither significant enough to cause me to cancel my trip nor to never return however the seeming nickle-and-dime approach will certainly mean I will reduce the frequency of my trips in the future while a price increase of a couple bucks probably would have made less impact on my thinking moving forward.


----------



## scrappinginontario

shawthorne44 said:


> They've said that you can add it to your tickets or anytime the day of.
> I assume that means if you add it to your tickets, it will be for every day.   Anytime the day of, starts at midnight.   So, you could be up at say 6:30am, add G+, then be ready to add your first G+ ride reservation.
> *I think people are going to not want to bother with adding G+ before they use it, so will add it to the ticket. I know I will.*


For me, it will depend on which park I'm going to and what the standby lines are like before our trip.  We normally go lower crowd times so I may only add it for certain parks.  (On our last trip in 2019 Soarin' was a walk-on at 4:00 on a Friday.  Genie+ would have been a waste of money on a day like that.)


----------



## JustinS30

shawthorne44 said:


> They've said that you can add it to your tickets or anytime the day of.
> I assume that means if you add it to your tickets, it will be for every day.   Anytime the day of, starts at midnight.   So, you could be up at say 6:30am, add G+, then be ready to add your first G+ ride reservation.
> I think people are going to not want to bother with adding G+ before they use it, so will add it to the ticket. I know I will.



I’m interested to see how the plays out. I’m an AP holder, have an upcoming trip thats technically 5 days (arrive Monday, leave Friday) and only have park reservations for 3 days (Tuesday through Thursday). I’d like to assume I’d only be charged for 3 days if adding ahead of time in that case.


----------



## RedmonFamily

JustinS30 said:


> Been trying to scan this thread for an answer so my apologies if this has been answered. What I’m curious about, is when purchasing Genie+ (the $15/day option) do I need to purchase for every day of my trip, or and I pick and choose certain days to purchase, while skipping some?


I watched the dfb video and AJ mentioned that she learned it was your whole ticket ( so all days) if you purchased ahead of your trip. Or you could purchase day of when you are here but made it sounds like availability could be limited.


----------



## Coconut8473

RedmonFamily said:


> I watched the dfb video and AJ mentioned that she learned it was your whole ticket ( so all days) if you purchased ahead of your trip. Or you could purchase day of when you are here but made it sounds like availability could be limited.



This is what I was worried about. We usually go for 7-8 days, and typically will do "commando" for the first 3-4 days (whether it's rope dropping, fast passing, whatever it takes to ride all the "must rides" first), then just go with the flow the second half of our trip (park hopping, taking afternoon pool breaks, hitting the quieter attractions like Carousel of Progress, etc.) For a family of 4, $15 a day for 8 days = $480, compared to only $180 to add G+ for 3 days. I'm a planner, so don't love the idea of one more thing we'd have to do "day of" especially if availability isn't guaranteed.


----------



## CBMom01

Does anyone know if Swan and Dolphin are considered on site for the 7 am rule?


----------



## luv2cheer92

Coconut8473 said:


> Apologies if this was answered earlier in this (or another) thread. Does anyone know if G+ pricing be similar to Park Hopper where you have to apply it to all days of your ticket, or will you be able to pick and choose which day(s) to buy/apply it to? For example, if I have a 7 day ticket, but only want G+ for 3 of those days, is that an option? All of their verbiage talks about the flexibility of G+, and adding options a la carte, but I haven't seen this situation called out specifically, unless I missed it.





JustinS30 said:


> Been trying to scan this thread for an answer so my apologies if this has been answered. What I’m curious about, is when purchasing Genie+ (the $15/day option) do I need to purchase for every day of my trip, or and I pick and choose certain days to purchase, while skipping some?



You can either add it ahead of time as part of your package. In this case, it will be added to every day. OR you can add it one day at a time, starting at midnight that day. Then you can choose which days you want and if some people don't want it.


----------



## twincruisers

CBMom01 said:


> Does anyone know if Swan and Dolphin are considered on site for the 7 am rule?


I assume you are referring to IAS, but yes they will count for as on-site for 7am purchase ability. G+ is open to everyone at 7am Regardless of where you are staying.


----------



## js

Hi.  I just started reading all these threads since I have a 9 night trip beginning November 11, staying at BWVs and probably will get a 5 day ticket.

I have not purchased tickets yet.
If I want to add G+ it is $15 a day, correct?
If I want LL, I do not know the price per day, but it is for two attractions, is that also correct?

For LL, I will need to be up and ready to book my pass at 7 am and can only book the second pass after the first is used? This may stress me when trying to get RotR in HS then the LL pass(es).

Regarding above, since this hasn't happened yet, we really don't know if we can refresh for better times during the day for LL and G+ will be for second tier attractions? 

Thank you very much.  I have time today and trying to figure it all out so I know what we need to purchase before our stay since it will be my mom and me and want to price out the above options vs. PH since we will be in walking distance to HS and Epcot and are RD people and usually get done what we need to before lunch.

Thank you.


----------



## Makmak

HokieRaven5 said:


> *Disney is planning an imminent launch of Disney Genie and Genie+*
> 
> Looks like sometime in the week following 10/1 the service may launch.


----------



## Marionnette

js said:


> Hi.  I just started reading all these threads since I have a 9 night trip beginning November 11, staying at BWVs and probably will get a 5 day ticket.
> 
> I have not purchased tickets yet.
> If I want to add G+ it is $15 a day, correct?
> If I want LL, I do not know the price per day, but it is for two attractions, is that also correct?
> 
> For LL, I will need to be up and ready to book my pass at 7 am and can only book the second pass after the first is used? This may stress me when trying to get RotR in HS then the LL pass(es).
> 
> Regarding above, since this hasn't happened yet, we really don't know if we can refresh for better times during the day for LL and G+ will be for second tier attractions?
> 
> Thank you very much.  I have time today and trying to figure it all out so I know what we need to purchase before our stay since it will be my mom and me and want to price out the above options vs. PH since we will be in walking distance to HS and Epcot and are RD people and usually get done what we need to before lunch.
> 
> Thank you.


1. The price for Genie+ is $15 per day and it can be purchased after midnight of the day you are visiting. If you purchase a package, you can buy Genie+ in advance but must buy it for the length of your ticket.

2. The term Disney uses for the paid attractions is not LL because that is what they are calling the old FP queues. The paid-per-attraction feature is IA$ (Individual Attraction Selection). Prices for IA$ have not been revealed and will most likely be dynamic.

3. It is unclear as to whether you can hold 2 IA$ at the same time. But the daily limits is 2. Booking of IA$ begins at 7 AM for onsite guests. Offsite guests must wait until they have entered a park to make their purchase. 

4. No one knows if you will be able to refresh, refresh, refresh for a different Genie+ selection. IA$ will be for at least 2 attractions per park but which attractions they will be has not been confirmed.


----------



## js

Marionnette said:


> 1. The price for Genie+ is $15 per day and it can be purchased after midnight of the day you are visiting. If you purchase a package, you can buy Genie+ in advance but must buy it for the length of your ticket.
> 
> 2. The term Disney uses for the paid attractions is not LL because that is what they are calling the old FP queues. The paid-per-attraction feature is IA$ (Individual Attraction Selection). Prices for IA$ have not been revealed and will most likely be dynamic.
> 
> 3. It is unclear as to whether you can hold 2 IA$ at the same time. But the daily limits is 2. Booking of IA$ begins at 7 AM for onsite guests. Offsite guests must wait until they have entered a park to make their purchase.
> 
> 4. No one knows if you will be able to refresh, refresh, refresh for a different Genie+ selection. IA$ will be for at least 2 attractions per park but which attractions they will be has not been confirmed.



Thank you, this is very helpful.

I won't be purchasing a package since I'm DVC.

Regarding No. 1, if I purchase my tickets today, for instance 5 nights, I cannot add G+ until after midnight the day I'm going to a park?  

No. 2, if I purchased tickets today, I cannot add IAS until it is rolled out and then added, and just maybe the same as G+, I have to add after midnight? 

As a Type A planner, this all gives me extra added stress for my trips LOL

Am I understanding your post correctly?  Thank you so much!


----------



## Marionnette

js said:


> Thank you, this is very helpful.
> 
> I won't be purchasing a package since I'm DVC.
> 
> Regarding No. 1, if I purchase my tickets today, for instance 5 nights, I cannot add G+ until after midnight the day I'm going to a park?
> 
> No. 2, if I purchased tickets today, I cannot add IAS until it is rolled out and then added, and just maybe the same as G+, I have to add after midnight?
> 
> As a Type A planner, this all gives me extra added stress for my trips LOL
> 
> Am I understanding your post correctly?  Thank you so much!


If not purchased as a part of a package, you cannot purchase Genie+ until midnight of the day that you intend to use it.

No one can purchase IA$ until the day of. If you're staying onsite, you have to wait until 7 AM. Each IA$ is an individual purchase and is not part of Genie+.


----------



## disneydoc2007

Does anyone know if the Genie features will be available on the MDE page on a browser as well as the app?


----------



## js

Marionnette said:


> If not purchased as a part of a package, you cannot purchase Genie+ until midnight of the day that you intend to use it.
> 
> No one can purchase IA$ until the day of. If you're staying onsite, you have to wait until 7 AM. Each IA$ is an individual purchase and is not part of Genie+.



Thank you and WOW, I really hate the timing of purchasing.
I have to stay up until 12 am to purchase the G+, then make sure I am up and ready by 7 am to purchase the IAS.
For a park day, 7 am can also be when we are getting ready to leave, get dressed, wait for bus, etc. also throw in the VQ for RotR.  I absolutely hate the timing of purchase but for those not i the know, with little kids, etc., I think some of us will have an advantage. Time will tell I guess. Happy it will be rolled out before November 11.

Thank you again for your help, I appreciate it.


----------



## JoJoGirl

js said:


> I have to stay up until 12 am to purchase the G+, then make sure I am up and ready by 7 am to purchase the IAS.



I don’t think you’ll have to stay up until midnight to purchase Genie+.  You can still purchase it in the morning, maybe at 6:45 am or so, to have it in place before the 7:00 am LL drops.  

It’s just a guess, but I highly doubt that Disney is going to severely limit the number of G+s they sell each day (if at all), so they won’t sell out at midnight.  If you want it, it will still be available at 6:45 am.  That would only require waking up a few minutes earlier.  That’s my plan, at least.


----------



## Meglen

guess my trip will be the "beta" test for genie...


----------



## js

JoJoGirl said:


> I don’t think you’ll have to stay up until midnight to purchase Genie+.  You can still purchase it in the morning, maybe at 6:45 am or so, to have it in place before the 7:00 am LL drops.
> 
> It’s just a guess, but I highly doubt that Disney is going to severely limit the number of G+s they sell each day (if at all), so they won’t sell out at midnight.  If you want it, it will still be available at 6:45 am.  That would only require waking up a few minutes earlier.  That’s my plan, at least.



Thank you. Yes, I guess I will either stay up until midnight or get up a little earlier. Either way, I wish I could just purchase when I want it.


----------



## OhDannyBoy

Meglen said:


> guess my trip will be the "beta" test for genie...


----------



## Marionnette

js said:


> Thank you. Yes, I guess I will either stay up until midnight or get up a little earlier. Either way, I wish I could just purchase when I want it.


FWIW, reports are that Genie+ will work similar to MaxPass at DL. When you go to choose a return time you will only be offered the next available time slot. Unlike FP+, you will not be able to select from a number of return times. So getting up before 7 AM is only useful if Genie+ sells out quickly each day OR you're planning to arrive at the park near park opening to use that first Genie+ selection.


----------



## js

Marionnette said:


> FWIW, reports are that Genie+ will work similar to MaxPass at DL. When you go to choose a return time you will only be offered the next available time slot. Unlike FP+, you will not be able to select from a number of return times. So getting up before 7 AM is only useful if Genie+ sells out quickly each day OR you're planning to arrive at the park near park opening to use that first Genie+ selection.



Thank you. That is a part of the equation I didn't have, about next available time.  I'm not familiar with MaxPass but guessing if I used my first G+ and don't like the time of the next return window since I'm still walking on the things I want to do, I can "just" wait 15-30 minutes to see what pops back up? 
We are front of the line RD people and usually leave around lunchtime-2/3 pm. OR, I am guessing I can use the IAS in between or after the G+ and do you know if the IAS will be the same with the next available time? While I love planning Disney trips, I can't see how this is so great for anyone.


----------



## Marionnette

js said:


> Thank you. That is a part of the equation I didn't have, about next available time.  I'm not familiar with MaxPass but guessing if I used my first G+ and don't like the time of the next return window since I'm still walking on the things I want to do, I can "just" wait 15-30 minutes to see what pops back up?
> We are front of the line RD people and usually leave around lunchtime-2/3 pm. OR, I am guessing I can use the IAS in between or after the G+ and do you know if the IAS will be the same with the next available time? While I love planning Disney trips, I can't see how this is so great for anyone.


The G+ attractions will not be the same as the IA$ attractions. So it will be possible to have an IA$ and G+ booked concurrently. You do not need to have a G+ constantly scheduled if you want to take a break or don't like the return times you are being offered. IA$ could work like FP+, where you could pick a return time. But nobody knows for certain how that will work. For all we know, IA$ could also assign a return time based on "next available".

I agree that it's going to be frustrating while we wait for Genie to roll out and people begin using it. Right now, Disney has done very little beyond announcing that it is coming "this fall".


----------



## js

Marionnette said:


> The G+ attractions will not be the same as the IA$ attractions. So it will be possible to have an IA$ and G+ booked concurrently. You do not need to have a G+ constantly scheduled if you want to take a break or don't like the return times you are being offered. IA$ could work like FP+, where you could pick a return time. But nobody knows for certain how that will work. For all we know, IA$ could also assign a return time based on "next available".
> 
> I agree that it's going to be frustrating while we wait for Genie to roll out and people begin using it. Right now, Disney has done very little beyond announcing that it is coming "this fall".



Thank you again for your detailed responses, it has helped me at least get an idea of what I need/want to figure out.


----------



## Grumpy by Birth

Just popping in to say how great it is that IA$ is gaining traction as the official DIS acronym for Individual Attraction Selection.

Seriously, did no one on that committee think to themselves "maybe we shouldn't use a word that starts with 'S' when we name this thing." ????


----------



## js

Meglen said:


> guess my trip will be the "beta" test for genie...


----------



## shawthorne44

Grumpy by Birth said:


> Just popping in to say how great it is that IA$ is gaining traction as the official DIS acronym for Individual Attraction Selection.
> 
> Seriously, did no one on that committee think to themselves "maybe we shouldn't use a word that starts with 'S' when we name this thing." ????



And when we think it is too expensive, it should be IA$$$. 

I read about an advertising agency that was tasked with finding the perfect name for some new cigarettes. It was super-secret. They did focus groups, etc. on what words people liked best. Because it was super-secret no one said out loud the name picked. That is until the customer presentation. "Kent Sirs"


----------



## JoJoGirl

Grumpy by Birth said:


> Seriously, did no one on that committee think to themselves "maybe we shouldn't use a word that starts with 'S' when we name this thing." ????



Must have been the same committee that named Alien Swirling Saucers.


----------



## bookgirl2632

Meglen said:


> guess my trip will be the "beta" test for genie...


It looks like I’ll be there the week after it starts.  I hope to get enough info about it beforehand.


----------



## Roborn

Sorry if asked and answered in the previous 103 pages but will G+ be an additional charge in each park if you hop?


----------



## Meglen

bookgirl2632 said:


> It looks like I’ll be there the week after it starts.  I hope to get enough info about it beforehand.


Yea I feel the lack of info is stressing me out. I don't wanna just panic buy it if we don't need it


----------



## shawthorne44

Roborn said:


> Sorry if asked and answered in the previous 103 pages but will G+ be an additional charge in each park if you hop?



Nope, just per day with park hopping allowed.


----------



## magickingdomprincess

bookgirl2632 said:


> It looks like I’ll be there the week after it starts.  I hope to get enough info about it beforehand.



Same here!  We arrive Oct 11th.  I am hoping it doesn't start the week we go.  But it's just crazy to me they'd start the 1st!  It's already going to be nuts then!


----------



## mdmost

"Lightning Lane" and "Virtual" signage was added to Rise of the Resistance in Hollywood Studios today according to Twitter. So the virtual queue will remain for a while so you can try for the boarding groups at 7am and 1pm or pay extra to skip the virtual queue at 7am with Genie++.


----------



## btuftee

It does seem bizarre that we are a few weeks away (so it seems) from Genie+ and IA$ rolling out, and there are all of these unanswered questions.  We don't even know the full list of which attractions are in what categories (G+, IA$, or neither).  It hasn't been confirmed (or has it?) that all guests can make G+ reservations starting at 7:00am, or if that is just for on-site guests.  And no one knows how much time needs to pass before you can make your next G+ reservation (90 mins? 120 mins? Not until your current G+ reservation opens?).  I suppose there's never a good time, but it seems like the low crowds right now are the prime opportunity for a soft opening.  WDW is going to get pretty busy from 1 Oct on for the rest of the year.  Predicting extra-long lines at Guest Services with annoyed people...


----------



## J-Dog

This may have been already asked and answered (if so, I apologize), or maybe no one knows - but will slot times for G+ or IAS be choose-able? Or will they just be scheduled first-come, first-served?

If they are just issued first-come, first-served, then I assume that there is a window of time for you to show-up, like FP+, right? Do anyone know how long that window may be?

I'm just wondering what would happen if your virtue line window opens right when you have an ADR, for example. I would hate to miss out on using G+ - when I had to pay for it - because the timing isn't right.

Thanks! We will be there on Oct 4 - when the latest estimates are when it may first drop, so I want to be prepared.


----------



## shawthorne44

J-Dog said:


> This may have been already asked and answered (if so, I apologize), or maybe no one knows - but will slot times for G+ or IAS be choose-able? Or will they just be scheduled first-come, first-served?
> 
> If they are just issued first-come, first-served, then I assume that there is a window of time for you to show-up, like FP+, right? Do anyone know how long that window may be?
> 
> I'm just wondering what would happen if your virtue line window opens right when you have an ADR, for example. I would hate to miss out on using G+ - when I had to pay for it - because the timing isn't right.
> 
> Thanks! We will be there on Oct 4 - when the latest estimates are when it may first drop, so I want to be prepared.



Some of the info is based on MaxPass, so just an educated guess.    DLP has been doing basically this already.  
With G+, you won't be able to select your time, it will be the next available.  But, you will know the time before you choose it.  
With the IA$$$, you'll be able to select your times, so if you are paying for it, you just select a good time for you..


----------



## erinch

JoJoGirl said:


> Must have been the same committee that named Alien Swirling Saucers.


And the committee that named F*ARTs


----------



## WEDWDW

With the TWENTY-FOUR DOLLAR price tag looking possible for Rise of the Resistance,I think the Virtual Queue will spontaneously combust!lol

Disney is planning an imminent launch of Disney Genie and Genie+ (wdwmagic.com)


----------



## J-Dog

shawthorne44 said:


> Some of the info is based on MaxPass, so just an educated guess.    DLP has been doing basically this already.
> With G+, you won't be able to select your time, it will be the next available.  But, you will know the time before you choose it.
> With the IA$$$, you'll be able to select your times, so if you are paying for it, you just select a good time for you..


Thanks very much!

I remember back when I was a FP+ rookie - that we had to walk out of the Soarin' FP line just as we got to boarding, because we were about to miss our ADR. It wasn't the end of the world at the time, because FP+ was free (and better than losing $10 per person for an ADR no-show), but now if G+ is paid, then that's a whole 'nuther story if you have to miss your spot...


----------



## shawthorne44

J-Dog said:


> Thanks very much!
> 
> I remember back when I was a FP+ rookie - that we had to walk out of the Soarin' FP line just as we got to boarding, because we were about to miss our ADR. It wasn't the end of the world at the time, because FP+ was free (and better than losing $10 per person for an ADR no-show), but now if G+ is paid, then that's a whole 'nuther story if you have to miss your spot...



I think you could have talked to a CM and ridden and still got your ADR. They probably would have written you something, or called the restaurant. 
What has been a problem is boarding groups and ADR's. People talked to a CM at one or the other, and have gotten advice on which could be done later.  So, they were able to do both.


----------



## ThistleMae

I'm thinking if Genie + is set up for next available time, then I don't have to worry about getting on at 7 a.m. if I don't want to go to the parks early.  I can just purchase when I get to the park at whatever time, and decide if I want to purchase it then depending on lines and see what it gives me.  I'm also assuming when I park hop, it will do the same and just give me next available time for that park as well.  So for folks who aren't early risers this could work out well for them.


----------



## Airb330

While I know this is modified Maxpass, is there something we could be missing? We know Maxpass and FP+ didn’t ‘ration’ rides. If I rode Soarin’ as my 4th FP+ and FOP popped up (due to a cancellation) I could grab it as my 5th.

Is there a chance Genie+ isn’t going to show us everything? Where it has an algorithm where it knows you already rode 4 good rides today. It’s 2PM and now you’re at AK and it won’t show you EE, but the family near you at AK hasn’t gotten a selection yet with their Genie+, it shows them EE instead since they just entered the park?

I am not saying they _should_ do this but clearly they want to “level the playing field” and this sort of algorithm would do that. If they thought FP+ favored planners too much, so could G+ for the family willing to be up at 7am and rope drop. I know a lot of the apprehension revolves around those who like to do the parks 3-close (myself included) and not getting good selections with Genie+.


----------



## shawthorne44

Airb330 said:


> While I know this is modified Maxpass, is there something we could be missing? We know Maxpass and FP+ didn’t ‘ration’ rides. If I rode Soarin’ as my 4th FP+ and FOP popped up (due to a cancellation) I could grab it as my 5th.
> 
> Is there a chance Genie+ isn’t going to show us everything? Where it has an algorithm where it knows you already rode 4 good rides today. It’s 2PM and now you’re at AK and it won’t show you EE, but the family near you at AK hasn’t gotten a selection yet with their Genie+, it shows them EE instead since they just entered the park?
> 
> I am not saying they _should_ do this but clearly they want to “level the playing field” and this sort of algorithm would do that. If they thought FP+ favored planners too much, so could G+ for the family willing to be up at 7am and rope drop. I know a lot of the apprehension revolves around those who like to do the parks 3-close (myself included) and not getting good selections with Genie+.



Nobody knows, and I've wondered the same thing. What gives me hope is 1) None of the MaxPass versions had that and 2) that patent didn't mention it. The patent said things like using the person's location to offer ride times. So, the ride next to you, it might offer basically now, but not for the ride across the park.

I ran into that problem when I got the scribd audiobook membership. At one point I was so throttled it only allowed Librovox books. I got it to listen to the Dune series. It only allowed one per month.


----------



## scrappinginontario

Airb330 said:


> While I know this is modified Maxpass, is there something we could be missing? We know Maxpass and FP+ didn’t ‘ration’ rides. If I rode Soarin’ as my 4th FP+ and FOP popped up (due to a cancellation) I could grab it as my 5th.
> 
> Is there a chance Genie+ isn’t going to show us everything? Where it has an algorithm where it knows you already rode 4 good rides today. It’s 2PM and now you’re at AK and it won’t show you EE, but the family near you at AK hasn’t gotten a selection yet with their Genie+, it shows them EE instead since they just entered the park?
> 
> I am not saying they _should_ do this but clearly they want to “level the playing field” and this sort of algorithm would do that. If they thought FP+ favored planners too much, so could G+ for the family willing to be up at 7am and rope drop. I know a lot of the apprehension revolves around those who like to do the parks 3-close (myself included) and not getting good selections with Genie+.


I really don't think it will be this intuitive.  We need to remember that Disney _wants_ us to purchase this.  If they start rationing the rides it offers, people will be less likely to purchase it which is not what they want.


----------



## Airb330

scrappinginontario said:


> I really don't think it will be this intuitive.  We need to remember that Disney _wants_ us to purchase this.  If they start rationing the rides it offers, people will be less likely to purchase it which is not what they want.


But this would make a _*larger*_ population of park guests happy. FP+ caterered to the planners too much apparently. I have no faith in Disney IT being able to pull off something like that anyways though!


----------



## DJFan88

ThistleMae said:


> I'm thinking if Genie + is set up for next available time, then I don't have to worry about getting on at 7 a.m. if I don't want to go to the parks early.  I can just purchase when I get to the park at whatever time, and decide if I want to purchase it then depending on lines and see what it gives me.  I'm also assuming when I park hop, it will do the same and just give me next available time for that park as well.  So for folks who aren't early risers this could work out well for them.


This works fine on lower crowds, but in high crowds times,
My only concern with that strategy is if I knew I was going later and may want it I would at least want it purchased and have made my first selection (for my most popular wait time ride at a time when I figure I’ll get there) since the way I understand it is: 1) the slots are limited and can be taken up , and 2) the amount of + upgrades to buy are as well.  Now, how many of each and how that affects things remains to be seen , but based on getting rolling FPS in the past, it can give you a sense for the rides we all know that had FPS in the past, that capacity hasn’t changed.


----------



## Marionnette

Airb330 said:


> But this would make a _*larger*_ population of park guests happy. FP+ caterered to the planners too much apparently. I have no faith in Disney IT being able to pull off something like that anyways though!


Would it make a larger population happy? Someone who just got off of PP, rode IASW standby and would like to do HM soon is not going to be happy that all they can see available is Pooh and Philharmagic.

While I doubt that the software is sophisticated enough to target individuals for certain G+ slots. I'm pretty confident that the free Genie app will be diverting crowds away from the narrow walkway between PP and IASW by suggesting that the guest wander over to POTC or Buzz.


----------



## DJFan88

Marionnette said:


> While I doubt that the software is sophisticated enough to target individuals for certain G+ slots. I'm pretty confident that the free Genie app will be diverting crowds away from the narrow walkway between PP and IASW by suggesting that the guest wander over to POTC or Buzz.


 I agree.  Since the + passes are limited and cost money they most likely won’t mess with you and you’ll be able to see all FPS (I know not correct term but really what it is), that are available at that time. 
The free Genie people will be the diverted, and am guessing that should give them plenty of people to mess around with, even taking into account the people who will just go about their business without using any genie functions whatsoever


----------



## ThistleMae

DJFan88 said:


> This works fine on lower crowds, but in high crowds times,
> My only concern with that strategy is if I knew I was going later and may want it I would at least want it purchased and have made my first selection (for my most popular wait time ride at a time when I figure I’ll get there) since the way I understand it is: 1) the slots are limited and can be taken up , and 2) the amount of + upgrades to buy are as well.  Now, how many of each and how that affects things remains to be seen , but based on getting rolling FPS in the past, it can give you a sense for the rides we all know that had FPS in the past, that capacity hasn’t changed.


I don't think capacity will change but giving them out throughout the day would change the flow.  Whereas FP+ would just be gone, and you'd be lucky to get anything else but tier two rides.  IDK but I'm hoping folks would still be able to get LL passes throughout the day and night.  Think about the PH, not being able to hop until 2 p.m.  There would be nothing left if you purchased, then hopped and couldn't get anything at your second park.


----------



## scrappinginontario

ThistleMae said:


> I don't think capacity will change but giving them out throughout the day would change the flow.  Whereas FP+ would just be gone, and you'd be lucky to get anything else but tier two rides.  IDK but I'm hoping folks would still be able to get LL passes throughout the day and night.  Think about the PH, not being able to hop until 2 p.m.  There would be nothing left if you purchased, then hopped and couldn't get anything at your second park.


Not saying you're wrong, just that I see it differently.  

I'm guessing G+ will work a lot like FP+ and everything will be released at the same time.  The more interest there is in a ride, the less availability there will be earlier in the day as it fills quickly and the later the time will be presented.  I feel (again, only my opinion) that some of the more attractive rides will fill their G+ allotment early in the day.  Yes, some may open later as people choose to cancel and look for a different one or, plans change but who knows?  Similar to FP+, I would hope for but not expect to get a G+ for a popular ride if I hop to that park.  I see most of the availability later in the day being for less popular rides.

Time will tell.  For now, everything is speculation.


----------



## Violetspider

scrappinginontario said:


> Not saying you're wrong, just that I see it differently.
> 
> I'm guessing G+ will work a lot like FP+ and everything will be released at the same time.  The more interest there is in a ride, the less availability there will be earlier in the day as it fills quickly and the later the time will be presented.  I feel (again, only my opinion) that some of the more attractive rides will fill their G+ allotment early in the day.  Yes, some may open later as people choose to cancel and look for a different one or, plans change but who knows?  Similar to FP+, I would hope for but not expect to get a G+ for a popular ride if I hop to that park.  I see most of the availability later in the day being for less popular rides.
> 
> Time will tell.  For now, everything is speculation.


Exactly what I'm expecting, based in no small part how MaxPass operated. But getting later return times and not being able to grab additional LL's for tier 2 rides in the meantime, would be a real disincentive for purchasing G+. This is why I think Disney will have to allow some sort of timed "stacking" in order to incentivize the purchase. I really hope they come out with some clarifications soon.


----------



## DJFan88

ThistleMae said:


> I don't think capacity will change but giving them out throughout the day would change the flow.  Whereas FP+ would just be gone, and you'd be lucky to get anything else but tier two rides.  IDK but I'm hoping folks would still be able to get LL passes throughout the day and night.  Think about the PH, not being able to hop until 2 p.m.  There would be nothing left if you purchased, then hopped and couldn't get anything at your second park.






scrappinginontario said:


> Not saying you're wrong, just that I see it differently.
> 
> I'm guessing G+ will work a lot like FP+ and everything will be released at the same time.  The more interest there is in a ride, the less availability there will be earlier in the day as it fills quickly and the later the time will be presented.  I feel (again, only my opinion) that some of the more attractive rides will fill their G+ allotment early in the day.  Yes, some may open later as people choose to cancel and look for a different one or, plans change but who knows?  Similar to FP+, I would hope for but not expect to get a G+ for a popular ride if I hop to that park.  I see most of the availability later in the day being for less popular rides.
> 
> Time will tell.  For now, everything is speculation.



Yes , I was thinking the same as scrappinmom. Often I could get better FPS later in the day, but it took some refreshing and finagling.
So if I get up and know I’m not going to MK until noon on a given day and want + I’m snagging my first FP for 12 noon at 7am. Then we’ll roll with it. Granted MK will be easier to get better ones easier, but it could a challenge at places like DHS or even a couple of regular + AK rides.


----------



## J-Dog

shawthorne44 said:


> I think you could have talked to a CM and ridden and still got your ADR. They probably would have written you something, or called the restaurant.
> What has been a problem is boarding groups and ADR's. People talked to a CM at one or the other, and have gotten advice on which could be done later.  So, they were able to do both.


Thanks for the advice. Like I said, we were total rookies at the time.

I'm sure nobody knows, but will this tactic work for G+ or IAS?


----------



## SCDisneyfanatic

Okay, so I need some clarification as to how this works.  We are going to be in WDW from 25-29 October.  So, to use the LL I can book two passes starting at 0700 on the day we attend that park?  We are doing EPCOT on the 25th...at 0700 I make my reservations for the LL for the rides.  If I want to do certain rides not on the LL list because they are "Bigger Demand" rides like TT, I would have to purchase G+ at $15 per person per day.  Is that correct or am I just really confused?  Thanks in advance!


----------



## luv2cheer92

SCDisneyfanatic said:


> Okay, so I need some clarification as to how this works.  We are going to be in WDW from 25-29 October.  So, to use the LL I can book two passes starting at 0700 on the day we attend that park?  We are doing EPCOT on the 25th...at 0700 I make my reservations for the LL for the rides.  If I want to do certain rides not on the LL list because they are "Bigger Demand" rides like TT, I would have to purchase G+ at $15 per person per day.  Is that correct or am I just really confused?  Thanks in advance!


You can book your first G+ ($15/person) ride at 7. You can also book at least one IAS ride at 7(I don't believe they have clarified if you can book both then yet). The IAS rides are the higher demand rides and will be an additional cost. You do not need to have G+ for those rides, but it is in addition to G+.


----------



## DJFan88

SCDisneyfanatic said:


> Okay, so I need some clarification as to how this works.  We are going to be in WDW from 25-29 October.  So, to use the LL I can book two passes starting at 0700 on the day we attend that park?  We are doing EPCOT on the 25th...at 0700 I make my reservations for the LL for the rides.  If I want to do certain rides not on the LL list because they are "Bigger Demand" rides like TT, I would have to purchase G+ at $15 per person per day.  Is that correct or am I just really confused?  Thanks in advance!



Confused.

If you buy genie + for 15 dollars you will make 1 fast pass for 1 ride, then you will make another after you punch in to that ride based on availability and so on and so on. It will be all of the rides available except what Disney deems up to the 2 most popular in each park. This is yet to be exactly determined but we can speculate and know for sure Rise and 7 Dwarf is 2 of these.
Instead of Or in addition you may purchase up to 2 a day the most popular that they decide and for whatever price they decide. You can do that at 7 am if you are a resort guest, but if you are not on site you must wait until park opening.
There are many awesome blogs and podcasts out there that break this down well


----------



## gottalovepluto

SCDisneyfanatic said:


> Okay, so I need some clarification as to how this works.  We are going to be in WDW from 25-29 October.  So, to use the LL I can book two passes starting at 0700 on the day we attend that park?  We are doing EPCOT on the 25th...at 0700 I make my reservations for the LL for the rides.  If I want to do certain rides not on the LL list because they are "Bigger Demand" rides like TT, I would have to purchase G+ at $15 per person per day.  Is that correct or am I just really confused?  Thanks in advance!


As far as LL, that is just the physical line you walk through. Literally it’s nothing else.

(Yes, they could have made it more confusing but they would have had to put some effort into it.)


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## scrappinginontario

Violetspider said:


> Exactly what I'm expecting, based in no small part how MaxPass operated. But getting later return times and not being able to grab additional LL's for tier 2 rides in the meantime, would be a real disincentive for purchasing G+. This is why I think Disney will have to allow some sort of timed "stacking" in order to incentivize the purchase. I really hope they come out with some clarifications soon.


I've heard (again, speculation) that if a guest gets a G+ for a ride that is in the future (let's say 6PM return time, grabbing it at 10AM) then at 12:00 (2 hours after booking it) a guest _may_ be able to try to get another G+ reservation for something they can use earlier than 6PM.  Again, all speculation until more details are released.


SCDisneyfanatic said:


> Okay, so I need some clarification as to how this works.  We are going to be in WDW from 25-29 October.  So, to use the LL I can book two passes starting at 0700 on the day we attend that park?  We are doing EPCOT on the 25th...at 0700 I make my reservations for the LL for the rides.  If I want to do certain rides not on the LL list because they are "Bigger Demand" rides like TT, I would have to purchase G+ at $15 per person per day.  Is that correct or am I just really confused?  Thanks in advance!


I honestly don't think we know the answer to this exact question until further details are released by Disney.  Hopefully you will have time between when more details are released/official start date of Genie, to learn move before your late October trip.


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## serenitygr

I believe the “two parks per day at an additional cost” are pure speculation as well. For all we know, Disney could decide to make 3-4 of the most popular rides in magic kingdom “pay per ride”, and 2 at a different park. We just know so little….


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## DJFan88

serenitygr said:


> I believe the “two parks per day at an additional cost” are pure speculation as well. For all we know, Disney could decide to make 3-4 of the most popular rides in magic kingdom “pay per ride”, and 2 at a different park. We just know so little….


Iin their release they stated up to 2 rides per park.
Here is the release link with lots of info:  
https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2021/08/introducing-disney-genie/


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## mdmost

If it's like Maxpass in DLR, it will be fairly easy to book a ride for park open. The question will be do you have times to pick from for the entire day or is it first come, first served for park opening?I'd imagine the additional pay rides will only have a certain amount of slots open. I haven't watched any in-depth videos on it yet as we were preparing for our trip recently and didn't want to bother worrying about something that wouldn't be running until well after we were gone.

At DLR, you would have access to Maxpass as soon as you were tapped in at the front entrance but it was only for times close to opening until the Maxpasses ran out. So when you get through the front entrace, you could jump on and grab your first Maxpass. So if you got there at Rope Drop, you could have something waiting to ride at a time after park opening. For example, you could grab a 9am-10am Space Mt pass. You could then go ride Star Tours or something similar in Tomorrowland. When you tapped in for your Maxpass ride or the time for the ride had arrived, you could then select your next Maxpass. It was fairly easy to go from Maxpass to Maxpass, filling in low wait rides in between. The big ones like Radiator Racers or Guardians Breakout would fill up fast in California Adventure so you may only get RR at 11am or later. So you had to make a choice of what you wanted to spend that morning Maxpass on. There was wiggle room like scrappin talked about earlier. An hour before your Maxpass, you could make a 2nd. We would usually book Radiator Racers for whatever time was on there and then ride the lower wait rides until we were able to book our next one. We didn't really have that issue in DLR. I'd imagine Smuggler's Run was the new tough to get Maxpass but we never were there to experience it.

All of what I wrote above would now start at 7am instead of park opening. So at your hotel, you could book Space Mt or Splash Mt at 7am for whatever times are available at that moment. Then you work your ride plan around that. I think it could be a good system but there will be some gnashing of teeth around it. I'm very interested in seeing how it all works and how people use it to help minimize their wait times. We're going back to DLR after school is out next May and there's a lady I follow who gave us great guides to utilize Maxpass that I'd assume will do the same with Genie+.


----------



## Grasshopper2016

I plan to purchase Genie+ (at least for my non-EPCOT days).  But I, for one, will be really angry if I use my first LL pick for, say, POTC an hour after opening, and then, by the time I scan in for that ride, the only available options for a second LL pick are either (1) comparatively undesirable rides like Monsters Inc. and Magic Carpets or (2) time slots for rides like BTMRR and HM in the evening.  That will mean that I basically paid $15 for two good (but not top-tier) fastpasses.  

I think that Disney had better find a way to prevent that from happening, even on crowded days.


----------



## DJFan88

Grasshopper2016 said:


> I plan to purchase Genie+ (at least for my non-EPCOT days).  But I, for one, will be really angry if I use my first LL pick for, say, POTC an hour after opening, and then, by the time I scan in for that ride, the only available options for a second LL pick are either (1) comparatively undesirable rides like Monsters Inc. and Magic Carpets or (2) time slots for rides like BTMRR and HM in the evening.  That will mean that I basically paid $15 for two good (but not top-tier) fastpasses.
> 
> I think that Disney had better find a way to prevent that from happening, even on crowded days.



I wouldn’t use POTC for my first selection. There are many times during the day when the wait for that is low and I always remember those passes being available.


----------



## Turksmom

DJFan88 said:


> Iin their release they stated up to 2 rides per park.
> Here is the release link with lots of info:
> https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2021/08/introducing-disney-genie/


The release said you could purchase 1 or 2, but I couldn't find information on how many would be in each park


----------



## scrappinginontario

DJFan88 said:


> Iin their release they stated up to 2 rides per park.
> Here is the release link with lots of info:
> https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2021/08/introducing-disney-genie/



I'm interpreting it differently.  This is a quote from the link you posted:


*'Individual attraction selections (available for purchase):* Schedule a time to arrive at *up to two highly demanded attractions each day* using the Lightning Lane entrance – like Seven Dwarfs Mine Train at Magic Kingdom Park and Radiator Springs Racers at Disney California Adventure park (subject to limited availability; attractions not included with Disney Genie+). Pricing for this option will vary by date, attraction and park and will be announced closer to launch.
*Lightning Lane selections will be made on the same day of your visit and can be used across multiple theme parks*, great for those who love the Park Hopper option.'

Personally, I think guests will be limited to 2 IA$ purchases per day.  They can both be purchased for the same park or for different parks but a limit of 2 per guest will be in place regardless.

That's just my interpretation though.


----------



## SCDisneyfanatic

Okay, I think the combination of responses answered most of my questions.  Just one more...since I have already purchased our tickets through Shades of Green, do I have an option to just add the $15 per person on those tickets in order to access G+?  I assume that's the process.  And since we are at SOG we are considered On-Site so the 0700 works for us.


----------



## DJFan88

Turksmom said:


> The release said you could purchase 1 or 2, but I couldn't find information on how many would be in each park


I see how we could each read that differently.  I listen to many podcasts, some who have people who speak to Disney people, so this is how it has been presented to me. So I guess what you say could be true. I just read it as there will be up to 2, and you read it as you get up to selections for the extra purchase. So your way of reading could be right as well


----------



## DJFan88

scrappinginontario said:


> I'm interpreting it differently.  This is a quote from the link you posted:
> 
> 
> *'Individual attraction selections (available for purchase):* Schedule a time to arrive at *up to two highly demanded attractions each day* using the Lightning Lane entrance – like Seven Dwarfs Mine Train at Magic Kingdom Park and Radiator Springs Racers at Disney California Adventure park (subject to limited availability; attractions not included with Disney Genie+). Pricing for this option will vary by date, attraction and park and will be announced closer to launch.
> *Lightning Lane selections will be made on the same day of your visit and can be used across multiple theme parks*, great for those who love the Park Hopper option.'
> 
> Personally, I think guests will be limited to 2 IA$ purchases per day.  They can both be purchased for the same park or for different parks but a limit of 2 per guest will be in place regardless.
> 
> That's just my interpretation though.



I think we actually agree. On park hoppers I can still only purchase 2 special passes per day. 
the debated question was how many rides in each park would be available for the special purchase. I read it as only 2 per park. And all the rest are available only through the $15 option. But it was pointed out to me that it could be read that you can only buy 2 and was not actually giving any reference to how many rides per park would be available to purchase.


----------



## GrumpyFamilyof5

If I'm reading correctly, you can use Genie+ for a different park then the one you have a reservation for?? Example: I have a park ressie for MK that day, but want to hop over to AK at 2, I can make the pass for AK for that evening. ?? Correct?


----------



## scrappinginontario

DJFan88 said:


> I think we actually agree. On park hoppers I can still only purchase 2 special passes per day.
> the debated question was how many rides in each park would be available for the special purchase. I read it as only 2 per park. And all the rest are available only through the $15 option. But it was pointed out to me that it could be read that you can only buy 2 and was not actually giving any reference to how many rides per park would be available to purchase.


Yes, that is one of the many, many unknowns.  We both agree that we will only be able to purchase 2/day but, how many are available at each park is still not confirmed.  Will DHS have just RotR plus one other or, will it be RotR + SDD + RnRC + ToT + .......    That part is still unclear.


----------



## DJFan88

SCDisneyfanatic said:


> Okay, I think the combination of responses answered most of my questions.  Just one more...since I have already purchased our tickets through Shades of Green, do I have an option to just add the $15 per person on those tickets in order to access G+?  I assume that's the process.  And since we are at SOG we are considered On-Site so the 0700 works for us.



The way I understand it is if you add it to length of stay passes you can add it ahead of time but have to add it to every day. 
However you can also choose to add it just each day you want it to save money, but you can’t do that until day of. I have heard that they can be done anytime after midnight but am unclear on that. Then you are ready at 7am. 
The only risk in that I suppose is if it’s super popular and demand exceeds supply.


----------



## DJFan88

scrappinginontario said:


> Yes, that is one of the many, many unknowns.  We both agree that we will only be able to purchase 2/day but, how many are available at each park is still not confirmed.  Will DHS have just RotR plus one other or, will it be RotR + SDD + RnRC + ToT + .......    That part is still unclear.


Yes, they really only specifically mention the fate of about 4 rides in that. I do think DHS will be a good place for + though, maybe less at MK. They’ll have to make enough available if they want people to buy it. Sounds like we’ll find out soon


----------



## mdmost

GrumpyFamilyof5 said:


> If I'm reading correctly, you can use Genie+ for a different park then the one you have a reservation for?? Example: I have a park ressie for MK that day, but want to hop over to AK at 2, I can make the pass for AK for that evening. ?? Correct?



That was the case with Maxpass in Disneyland. We park hopped starting at Disneyland and then made a late night Guardians Maxpass later in the day at California Adventure. I would imagine the 2pm park hopper rule would apply to Genie+. You won't have access to other parks until after 2pm, I'd imagine since you couldn't tap in to that park to fulfill the FP until 2pm. The pay one would probably also fall this way.


----------



## shawthorne44

One thing that just registered in my brain.   I see/known it earlier but it didn't filter in.  The $15 for G+ is the Introductory Price. 
Oh course they can change the price of anything at any time.  

For me, I think $15 is the sweet spot. More than that and I'll be gnashing my teeth and maybe not get it. Less than that and too many people that go often will still get it.


----------



## scrappinginontario

I agree.  On page of 2 of this thread I used the very same language of ‘sweet spot’ for us at $15 for the very reasons you mentioned!


----------



## Grumpy by Birth

DJFan88 said:


> Iin their release they stated up to 2 rides per park.
> Here is the release link with lots of info:
> https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2021/08/introducing-disney-genie/





Turksmom said:


> The release said you could purchase 1 or 2, but I couldn't find information on how many would be in each park


As others have indicated, I too read the information as saying that guests can schedule (i.e. pay for) up to two IA$ attractions per day, but that doesn't mean the park will be limited to only two attractions requiring IA$ to use the LL.  If there are more than two IA$ attractions in a park, you would be able to purchase IA$ to use the LL for two of them and have to wait in standby for the others (since they would not be included in G+ for the $15).

That's another variable that will go into whether G+ is worth $15.  If it only gets you access to 50% of the rides using LL and you have to pay extra or wait in SB for even the "better" rides (and not just the "best"), it could dilute the value significantly.


----------



## wisblue

One of my questions about IAS that may have been answered, or might still be one of the many things that are still unknown, is whether you can purchase an IAS spot at a second park before you have actually arrived in the park.

For example, if I have a reservation at MK would I be able to purchase a time for Ratatouille (with an evening arrival) early in the day and then use it later when I hop to that park. That ability to reserve a popular attraction for later might be worth the $15-$20 to me, especially at Epcot where we might never make a reservation due to its later opening  and fewer rides that we really care about.

I have a similar question about Genie+. If we have hopper tickets, will we be able to use Genie+ to get a spot at an attraction at a second park once we are done using it at our reservation park, but before we actually enter that second park?


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## VAlegacy

scrappinginontario said:


> I agree.  On page of 2 of this thread I used the very same language of ‘sweet spot’ for us at $15 for the very reasons you mentioned!


Only Disney could figure out a way to make people feel happy about spending more $.
No free wristbands, but a better experience with personalized paid ones!
No free parking, but better parking experiences now for $20/day.
No free DME, but thank you Uber for enhancing guest travel to and from the airport.
No more Extra Magic Hours, but think of all you can accomplish in 30 minutes each morning!

No free FP, but thats only because it was free.  It will be better now that we charge!


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## scrappinginontario

VAlegacy said:


> Only Disney could figure out a way to make people feel happy about spending more $.
> No free wristbands, but a better experience with personalized paid ones!
> No free parking, but better parking experiences now for $20/day.
> No free DME, but thank you Uber for enhancing guest travel to and from the airport.
> No more Extra Magic Hours, but think of all you can accomplish in 30 minutes each morning!
> 
> No free FP, but thats only because it was free.  It will be better now that we charge!


Please don't put words in my mouth.  I did not was 'happy' to spend this money.  I just said they chose a dollar amount I would consider spending.  Those are two very different things.


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## shawthorne44

VAlegacy said:


> Only Disney could figure out a way to make people feel happy about spending more $.
> No free wristbands, but a better experience with personalized paid ones!
> No free parking, but better parking experiences now for $20/day.
> No free DME, but thank you Uber for enhancing guest travel to and from the airport.
> No more Extra Magic Hours, but think of all you can accomplish in 30 minutes each morning!
> 
> No free FP, but thats only because it was free.  It will be better now that we charge!



I think you meant to quote me.   I am peeved about every single last change that Disney has made lately.   Exceptions are G+ and possibly the early morning time being at all four parks even though it is half the time.  

Magic Bands - yeah that bites.  
DME - We drive, but my bf raved about it and is considering offsite next time.
Evening hours for Deluxe only - that was bad.   Then they said places like the swolphin get it?!?  That made it worse.  
No free resort parking - Well, I never experienced it free.  But that means staying offsite at someplace that doesn't charge for parking and maybe even includes hot breakfasts looks tempting.  Since with Disney you either pay at the resort or the park.  
Speaking of parking- why aren't the trams back? 
Every other recent change? Assume I'm annoyed by it. 

I am mildly hopeful on the early entry. It has to be better for us, since we were going to avoid using the early hour because of the excessive crowding. So, for us it means an extra half hour in the morning and there not being a park to avoid every day. In fact, this is why on-site is one of our reservations. I'll have time to cancel if it isn't worthwhile. 

I think we'll really like G+.  I'd been hoping for a MaxPass-ish to be the choice, and if were a straight copy of MaxPass we'd have paid for the cell phone option anyway.   I can see how the FPP worked for people who had AP's.   With an AP you have the luxury of getting on the ride next time.  So, the tiers on FPP weren't a problem.  I've seen the touring plan data on when FPP's are gone for the day.  The reports of 4 FPP+ to FOP in one day seems rare.  But, for us, we'll be doing the one-big-trip.   I like that there is a charge for G+ precisely because it means not everyone will have it.  That means more availability for us.   Also if it were free, it would just be standby with a cell phone complication.  I won't be buying the IA$$$, but I understand why some rides can't be included in G+.   If they did, then that is what people would buy G+ for and then not everyone would get on it.

Our plan will be to arrive for early entry go straight to one of the IA$$$ rides, getting a G+ reservation for the most G+ desirable ride.  Leaving lunch-ish for a break getting ride reservations for later in the day at another park.  Eat offsite, rest, come back from the break closing out that park and getting in a IA$$$ standby line just before close.


----------



## DisneyFive

I think the headliners will be available all throughout the day just like with FP+, not just mornings or early afternoons.  Guests are always changing plans throughout the day and that includes dropping popular attractions in favor of less popular, and vice versa.  With a little persistence I fully expect to scoop up good attractions that others just dropped. My big question, like others have asked, is how soon can you book another after you’ve made a G+ reservation.

I could be wrong too.  We’ll see

Dan


----------



## Kbrb

For a system rumored to be launching soon they are going to have to bite the bullet and announce the LL pricing. Clearly they are going to get a ton of bad PR for it like the genie. But id suggest they would be better taking that now than distracting from the 50th.


----------



## luv2cheer92

Kbrb said:


> For a system rumored to be launching soon they are going to have to bite the bullet and announce the LL pricing. Clearly they are going to get a ton of bad PR for it like the genie. But id suggest they would be better taking that now than distracting from the 50th.


Sources that are typically in the know with these things have said the range will be $4-24. (Assuming you mean IAS, not LL)


----------



## itf

Maybe it's because the UK exchange rate is poor at the moment, but that $24 figure is pretty outrageous for a family of 4 for what amounts to barely ten minutes of entertainment, especially having already paid for the privilege of being in the park. Not just bad value, but actively rinsing your customers.


----------



## Eastern

scrappinginontario said:


> I really don't think it will be this intuitive.  We need to remember that Disney _wants_ us to purchase this.  If they start rationing the rides it offers, people will be less likely to purchase it which is not what they want.


I think they want to control ride/park usage and making extra money is a side benefit.


----------



## Eastern

itf said:


> Maybe it's because the UK exchange rate is poor at the moment, but that $24 figure is pretty outrageous for a family of 4 for what amounts to barely ten minutes of entertainment, especially having already paid for the privilege of being in the park. Not just bad value, but actively rinsing your customers.


Family of 5 and I can't imagine paying even the least expensive price to ride something. $20 for going on something that used to be 'free'.


----------



## lorileahb

Eastern said:


> Family of 5 and I can't imagine paying even the least expensive price to ride something. $20 for going on something that used to be 'free'.



I love Disney - always will.  I think we will likely follow the "get there early" for the headliners - and wait for what we really want to do.

I also love Knoebel's (in PA) - where it is free to get in, and you pay for tickets that let you ride (buy one block of tickets to use throughout day).

I'm not in love with paying to get into a park and paying per ride - and having to keep going to back to my phone.  Even without the money aspect, I think it is being overcomplicated - taking away from the experience of enjoying the day.


----------



## emilymad

Kbrb said:


> For a system rumored to be launching soon they are going to have to bite the bullet and announce the LL pricing. Clearly they are going to get a ton of bad PR for it like the genie. But id suggest they would be better taking that now than distracting from the 50th.



I am not sure they are going to announce the prices in advance. It is supposed to be dynamic pricing so if they come out and say Space is $4 but then the day you are there it is $10 people will get angry.  They might put out starting prices so you know it would be $4 and up.  Even G+ has an *introductory* price of $15.  How fast will we see that increase?  I am going to guess fast if lots of people buy it and LL for the popular rides sells out by 10am everyday like FP used to.


----------



## CT Disney

It will be interesting to see “psychology” at play  as people define IA$ value. Will it be:

1. I am paying for a 2 minute ride on Space Mountain; OR

2. I am paying to skip the Space Mountain 60 minute line.

Personally, I’d have a hard time shifting my mindset away from option number 1 above. My brain would tell me I’m paying to skip the long line, but my gut will have me thinking, “I can’t believe I just paid $100 for my family of four to ride a 2 minute ride.”


----------



## VAlegacy

Eastern said:


> Family of 5 and I can't imagine paying even the least expensive price to ride something. $20 for going on something that used to be 'free'.


Exactly.  Personally I could not see spending $1 on G+


----------



## RedmonFamily

I am wondering if that introductory price of $15 will be if it is purchased for the length of your trip ahead of time. I could definitely see them making it cost more if you want to buy it individually day of. That way they sell more because you would fear spending more waiting to see if you really need it.


----------



## persnickity

Eastern said:


> I think they want to control ride/park usage and making extra money is a side benefit.



See, I would flip the order of that.


----------



## VAlegacy

persnickity said:


> See, I would flip the order of that.


Yes.
My old man used to say Disney sells magic by the pound.  A little more money = a little more magic and pixie dust.
Even if Disney claims changes are due to better crowd control or a better guest experience, rest assured its driven by money.


----------



## shawthorne44

RedmonFamily said:


> I am wondering if that introductory price of $15 will be if it is purchased for the length of your trip ahead of time. I could definitely see them making it cost more if you want to buy it individually day of. That way they sell more because you would fear spending more waiting to see if you really need it.



They could do like USF does with their express passes. Assuming there is demand, the price creeps up the closer you get to the date. Assuming that the demand is there. They don't want too many people to have it because then the EP lines get long and it isn't as valuable then. 

My plan is to add it to our tickets as soon as it is allowed.  My guess is that it will be $15 at that time.


----------



## wisblue

If it’s $15 per day for my next trip, I would likely get it for every day so I can see first hand how it works with what we like to do and how we like to enjoy the parks. If it turns out that I don’t think I got value for it, I’ll chalk up what I paid to experience. It wouldn’t take too many instances of getting a LL pass for an attraction with a line of 30 minutes or longer to make me feel like I got my money’s worth.


----------



## OhDannyBoy

So is it still just a guess-timation that this is going to roll out the beginning of Oct?

Or was anything official released on a specific date?


----------



## Marionnette

OhDannyBoy said:


> So is it still just a guess-timation that this is going to roll out the beginning of Oct?
> 
> Or was anything official released on a specific date?


Nothing official. Just unconfirmed rumors.


----------



## OhDannyBoy

Marionnette said:


> Nothing official. Just unconfirmed rumors.


This should be the thread title.

Thanks. Just making sure I didn't miss anything.


----------



## scrappinginontario

itf said:


> Maybe it's because the UK exchange rate is poor at the moment, but that $24 figure is pretty outrageous for a family of 4 for what amounts to barely ten minutes of entertainment, especially having already paid for the privilege of being in the park. Not just bad value, but actively rinsing your customers.


Those priced are high for Canadian and US guests also!


----------



## ZeeWP

Grumpy by Birth said:


> Just popping in to say how great it is that IA$ is gaining traction as the official DIS acronym for Individual Attraction Selection.
> 
> Seriously, did no one on that committee think to themselves "maybe we shouldn't use a word that starts with 'S' when we name this thing." ????



It's the crowd favorite out of these discussions. I will use it forever.


----------



## ZeeWP

So I wonder how much the surge pricing will actually moderate the times available. I can't imagine too many families affording $24pp for 7DMT or RotR. So on uber-busy days, I suspect the IA$ will be used by mostly smaller groups and may have more available times than when it is median level of crowds. 

As a stats nerd, I can't wait to see numbers on all of this, haha.


----------



## twincruisers

I'm wondering if there is any data from DLP and DLS on their Premier Access pricing and how much of a range the prices can be for any given ride. That may give us a good hint as to what's to come on our end.


----------



## Marionnette

twincruisers said:


> I'm wondering if there is any data from DLP and DLS on their Premier Access pricing and how much of a range the prices can be for any given ride. That may give us a good hint as to what's to come on our end.


It was reported that Premier Access at DLP was going to be in the range of €8-€15 per person per attraction. That's about $9.50 - $17.75 in today's US dollars.

These screen captures are from 08/03 courtesy of DLPReport on Twitter


----------



## scrappinginontario

Marionnette said:


> It was reported that Premier Access at DLP was going to be in the range of €8-€15 per person per attraction. That's about $9.50 - $17.75 in today's US dollars.
> 
> These screen captures are from 08/03 courtesy of DLPReport on Twitter
> View attachment 603812
> View attachment 603813
> View attachment 603815


Looking at the rides chosen in DLP, I hope it's different in WDW.  I'm sure it will be but if they make rides like Peter Pan and Big Thunder Mountain IA$ rides and not options on G+, looks like I'll be saving money by not purchasing G+ and waiting in a lot more stand-by lines.

I understand this is DLP and not WDW but it does give me reason to pause and wonder which rides and how many (especially in MK) will be IA$ rides.


----------



## twincruisers

Marionnette said:


> It was reported that Premier Access at DLP was going to be in the range of €8-€15 per person per attraction. That's about $9.50 - $17.75 in today's US dollars.
> 
> These screen captures are from 08/03 courtesy of DLPReport on Twitter


I was thinking more along the lines like Ride 1 range from $8-$10 and ride 2 goes from $8-$15 so we can see the range of prices associated with low, moderate, and surge pricing. With WDW rumored to be $4-$24 seems like we have a much more dynamic system than what DLP is utilizing with Premier Access.


----------



## WVU Disney Fan

itf said:


> Maybe it's because the UK exchange rate is poor at the moment, but that $24 figure is pretty outrageous for a family of 4 for what amounts to barely ten minutes of entertainment, especially having already paid for the privilege of being in the park. Not just bad value, but actively rinsing your customers.



I wouldn’t think of it as paying for 10 minutes so much as paying to save 90 minutes of waiting in standby. But I agree 24 per person is kinda steep


----------



## Lee Matthews

I’m surprised fellow UK people seem
More furious about this. We may go for 2-3 weeks at a time but you won’t need Genie+ for every day your there? So I do t see how it’s adding $500-$600 to peoples trips unless you decide to do it everyday.

Plus we do get our tickets pretty reasonably priced compared to the US prices.

14 day tickets work out at $48 a day currently. Also includes water parks and Photopass.


----------



## Jothmas

CT Disney said:


> It will be interesting to see “psychology” at play  as people define IA$ value. Will it be:
> 
> 1. I am paying for a 2 minute ride on Space Mountain; OR
> 
> 2. I am paying to skip the Space Mountain 60 minute line.
> 
> Personally, I’d have a hard time shifting my mindset away from option number 1 above. My brain would tell me I’m paying to skip the long line, but my gut will have me thinking, “I can’t believe I just paid $100 for my family of four to ride a 2 minute ride.”


The third option (or extension of option two) is that you are paying for the opportunity to do something else during the 60 minutes you saved by not waiting in line. So the question becomes whether or not the additional things you end up doing during those 60 minutes were worth the extra money. An "extra" hour in the park doing something other than standing in line has some value.


----------



## Marionnette

twincruisers said:


> I was thinking more along the lines like Ride 1 range from $8-$10 and ride 2 goes from $8-$15 so we can see the range of prices associated with low, moderate, and surge pricing. With WDW rumored to be $4-$24 seems like we have a much more dynamic system than what DLP is utilizing with Premier Access.


I took the WDW prices to be more reflective of the age, popularity and loading capacity of an IA$ attraction. So Space Mountain might be $4 and ROTR would be $24 initially. Surge pricing will probably not be utilized until Disney has data to work with.


----------



## shawthorne44

My hope (crosses fingers) is that some of the IA$$$ rides won't get many people to pay the money.   That will mean that the standby line won't be tooooo miserable.   Certainly less miserable than standby during FPP times.  My guess is that Disney will heavily inflate the expected wait time for those.  So, I'll be using TP.  

The ones with boarding groups will get takers, but I have hopes for the less popular of the IA$$$ rides.


----------



## gottalovepluto

RedmonFamily said:


> I am wondering if that introductory price of $15 will be if it is purchased for the length of your trip ahead of time. I could definitely see them making it cost more if you want to buy it individually day of. That way they sell more because you would fear spending more waiting to see if you really need it.


I think the pricing will be the same no matter how you purchase it at the beginning.


----------



## twincruisers

Marionnette said:


> I took the WDW prices to be more reflective of the age, popularity and loading capacity of an IA$ attraction. So Space Mountain might be $4 and ROTR would be $24 initially. Surge pricing will probably not be utilized until Disney has data to work with.


Very possible. I do think they will launch with some sort of IA$ dynamic pricing right from the start because they have a lot of good data from magicbands from the past decade.


----------



## klitteral2009

I personally am on the edge of my seat waiting to see the YouTubers and reviewers here on the DIS using this new program and seeing how it affects standby times.  I'm just as mad as most of us that we're being charged more and more for our Disney vacation, but if this last trip we took taught us anything it's that a standby line isn't horrible and that we can wait since the kids are older and we can entertain ourselves.  Do I want to pay more for this service no one asked for?  NO.  Will it make me angry the more I think about it?  YEP.  But I try to remind myself that I'm a Disney Junkie, I can't help myself, and most likely we'll be going and using this service if it actually has value.  A concrete release date would be nice to see though.


----------



## Cj2017

Man they really are going to wait until after October 1st arent they lol


----------



## scrappinginontario

I don’t want to pay for this either yet at the same time I remember 2 years ago when the parks were unbearably busy and it was getting harder and harder to visit attractions without long lines and long waits, that the talk was, the only way to decrease crowds would be to increase prices.  I didn’t know how they would do it other than through general increases but we’re now seeing, this is one of the many ways they’re potentially decreasing crowds.

Disney generally has a great  product and people like myself are willing to pay for it.  I’m just being forced to go less as I cannot afford as many days at these prices so Disney is accomplishing with me what people said years ago they needed to do…reduce crowds.


----------



## luv2cheer92

Cj2017 said:


> Man they really are going to wait until after October 1st arent they lol


Those with strong sources who have been in the know with this since before it was officially announced are expecting it to start shortly after the 1st (Monday the 4th is what I've been hearing)


----------



## tony67

Cj2017 said:


> Man they really are going to wait until after October 1st arent they lol


It seem like really poor planning to me - I can see the official release being the 1st to coincide with the 50th

But if they dont have a soft opening and testing starting soon Im going to be very surprised.

That said it is quite possible they are still working on the software and may be right up till the last second when they release.


----------



## Kbrb

Lee Matthews said:


> I’m surprised fellow UK people seem
> More furious about this. We may go for 2-3 weeks at a time but you won’t need Genie+ for every day your there? So I do t see how it’s adding $500-$600 to peoples trips unless you decide to do it everyday.
> 
> Plus we do get our tickets pretty reasonably priced compared to the US prices.
> 
> 14 day tickets work out at $48 a day currently. Also includes water parks and Photopass.



So be thankful we get a cheap deal?  

Loss of ME is $100?  (without getting international data plan) Genie needed for 5 days of the 14? and thats being really kind to it £15 x 4 x 5 $240 Chuck in what $100 for the Pay to ride?  now your at $440. Thats how you add $500 to your trip. Thats being kind to the system.  If the pay to rides are $20 each? Tron, FOP, GOG, ROTR   family of 4?  Genie needed for more days?


Uk guests suffer more from this up charge than most as we spend more time at disney than most.


----------



## rmclain73

luv2cheer92 said:


> Those with strong sources who have been in the know with this since before it was officially announced are expecting it to start shortly after the 1st (Monday the 4th is what I've been hearing)




I saw one blog that said the first week in Oct, but would love to see where there other sources can be found.  I have a trip Oct 9-16 and want to know how to plan.


----------



## Cj2017

rmclain73 said:


> I saw one blog that said the first week in Oct, but would love to see where there other sources can be found.  I have a trip Oct 9-16 and want to know how to plan.



Same, my trip is October 10 - 16 at WL! Family of 18!


----------



## Beer Me

Jothmas said:


> The third option (or extension of option two) is that you are paying for the opportunity to do something else during the 60 minutes you saved by not waiting in line. So the question becomes whether or not the additional things you end up doing during those 60 minutes were worth the extra money. An "extra" hour in the park doing something other than standing in line has some value.



i completely agree that time is worth money but the very specific transactional nature of this is off putting. “Pay us $75 (or whatever) and you save an hour waiting on line”.

Maybe it’s just me but this feels tacky and greedy. I’d be much more open to paying inflated hotel rates if they included time saving perks.

And not everyone will see it as paying for time saved. Imagine a family on their very first Disney vacation who feels compelled to spend ~$100 to ride SDMT. It’s a great little ride but many people will feel ripped off paying extra for a 2 minute experience. I think Disney is setting themselves up for lower customer satisfaction because none of the attractions are really worth a cash price on top of an already pricey admission.


----------



## davidbridgman

SDMT is probably the most overrated roller coaster in the country and I would be livid if I paid substantial money to skip the line. I was almost mad I wasted a rope drop on it.


----------



## scrappinginontario

davidbridgman said:


> SDMT is probably the most overrated roller coaster in the country and I would be livid if I paid substantial money to skip the line. I was almost mad I wasted a rope drop on it.


We're all so different.  My family loves this coaster and ride it multiple times each trip.


----------



## snikki

SDMT is a kiddie coaster. For what it is it’s great with awesome theming.


----------



## Grasshopper2016

We enjoy SDMT and try to ride it every trip if we can get a FP+ (RIP) or if the lines aren't that long.  But it is a remarkably short ride, and I do think that its unusual brevity will sting for those people who just paid more than $15 per person to ride it.


----------



## Turksmom

Cj2017 said:


> Same, my trip is October 10 - 16 at WL! Family of 18!


We need an "ouch" reaction button for that.


----------



## Beer Me

Grasshopper2016 said:


> We enjoy SDMT and try to ride it every trip if we can get a FP+ (RIP) or if the lines aren't that long.  But it is a remarkably short ride, and I do think that its unusual brevity will sting for those people who just paid more than $15 per person to ride it.



This is exactly what I was getting at. I love this ride but I just used it as an example because it’s such a short experience. But I think any ride you pay extra for won’t quite live up to the added expectations.

Maybe I’m wrong. Apparently it works in Paris but I know nothing about that park or how it’s generally perceived.


----------



## scrappinginontario

My guess playing into this will be length of stay.  If guests are only in a park for one day or even a portion of a day, they may find it beneficial to pay the upcharge.  If a guest has a longer visit so can allow for more time in standby lines, they may choose to wait rather than pay.

I know for us we'll watch the numbers but my first thought is to wait in lines and only purchase IA$ if absolutely necessary.  Not sure yet about G+ until I see which attractions are/are not included.


----------



## ZeeWP

scrappinginontario said:


> My guess playing into this will be length of stay.  If guests are only in a park for one day or even a portion of a day, they may find it beneficial to pay the upcharge.  If a guest has a longer visit so can allow for more time in standby lines, they may choose to wait rather than pay.
> 
> I know for us we'll watch the numbers but my first thought is to wait in lines and only purchase IA$ if absolutely necessary.  Not sure yet about G+ until I see which attractions are/are not included.



I think it will be a combo of the length of stay, budget, and group size.


----------



## DisneyFive

davidbridgman said:


> SDMT is probably the most overrated roller coaster in the country and I would be livid if I paid substantial money to skip the line. I was almost mad I wasted a rope drop on it.



I love that it is such a high demand attraction.  Reason being, if they are going to have 1 or 2 "pay to ride" attractions in each park I'm glad this is one of them.  (versus other attractions that I like)   Keep G+ for those others!  I like 7DMT, but it's not a "gotta do" for us.  I think the draw to 7DMT is the fact that the entire family can ride it.  Not too scary for little kids, and tame enough for grandparents to all enjoy.

I'll take any one of the other 3 mountains any day of the week.

Dan


----------



## scrappinginontario

DisneyFive said:


> I love that it is such a high demand attraction.  Reason being, if they are going to have 1 or 2 "pay to ride" attractions in each park I'm glad this is one of them.  (versus other attractions that I like)   Keep G+ for those others!  I like 7DMT, but it's not a "gotta do" for us.  I think the draw to 7DMT is the fact that the entire family can ride it.  Not too scary for little kids, and tame enough for grandparents to all enjoy.
> 
> I'll take any one of the other 3 mountains any day of the week.
> 
> Dan


Has it been confirmed that IA$ will only be added to 1 or 2 rides/park?  I haven't found where that is confirmed.

The original announcement could be interpreted a couple of ways:
- only 1 or 2 IA$ per park
or
- a guest is limited to 2 IA$/day


----------



## Lee Matthews

Kbrb said:


> So be thankful we get a cheap deal?
> 
> Loss of ME is $100?  (without getting international data plan) Genie needed for 5 days of the 14? and thats being really kind to it £15 x 4 x 5 $240 Chuck in what $100 for the Pay to ride?  now your at $440. Thats how you add $500 to your trip. Thats being kind to the system.  If the pay to rides are $20 each? Tron, FOP, GOG, ROTR   family of 4?  Genie needed for more days?
> 
> 
> Uk guests suffer more from this up charge than most as we spend more time at disney than most.



I don’t think it’s a case of being thankful but I am surprised that Disney has thrown a bone and kept water parks/ Photopass on the 1-2 week passes as they could have easily stripped them out like annual passes.

Personally I don’t think the UK park tickets are priced too badly but that’s my opinion. A single day adult ticket to chessington is £60

In regards to Genie+, it’s optional if people want to use it. US visitors are probably more pushed to use it as they go for much shorter trips


----------



## serenitygr

scrappinginontario said:


> Has it been confirmed that IA$ will only be added to 1 or 2 rides/park?  I haven't found where that is confirmed.
> 
> The original announcement could be interpreted a couple of ways:
> - only 1 or 2 IA$ per park
> or
> - a guest is limited to 2 IA$/day


It has not been confirmed. And you are correct- it could be either of those


----------



## DisneyFive

scrappinginontario said:


> Has it been confirmed that IA$ will only be added to 1 or 2 rides/park?  I haven't found where that is confirmed.
> 
> The original announcement could be interpreted a couple of ways:
> - only 1 or 2 IA$ per park
> or
> - a guest is limited to 2 IA$/day





serenitygr said:


> It has not been confirmed. And you are correct- it could be either of those



Ooh, good question.  Didn't mean to confuse.  I had always interpreted it as one or two attractions in each park will have IA$.  

Dan


----------



## scrappinginontario

DisneyFive said:


> Ooh, good question.  Didn't mean to confuse.  I had always interpreted it as one or two attractions in each park will have IA$.
> 
> Dan


I would love it to be that but I'd be surprised if Disney doesn't add more than 2 IA$ rides to some parks like MK and DHS.  

This is one I'd love to be wrong about though!!


----------



## CBMom01

So, I read it that when you pay for IA$ you get to choose 2 rides from a small list across parks.


----------



## shawthorne44

They have said 7-8 IA$$$ rides in all of WDW.


----------



## ZellyB

scrappinginontario said:


> I would love it to be that but I'd be surprised if Disney doesn't add more than 2 IA$ rides to some parks like MK and DHS.
> 
> This is one I'd love to be wrong about though!!



I actually don't think they will have a big number of rides that are IA$.  If they do too many then G+ loses its appeal.  They have to find that sweet spot where people frankly want to buy both.  There's a lot of money to be made by keeping G+ relatively low in cost and yet with a perceived value that gets lots of people to buy it.  If they limit that too much by making a bunch of rides IA$ then people don't buy G+ and frankly I think they have calculated and suspect G+ (high volume at low price) out performs IA$ (low volume at high price) for bottom line contribution.  I could also be wrong on this, but I think the intent, however poorly worded on their part, from the announcement is that there would likely only be 2 rides at each park eligible for IA$.  That's my hope at least.


----------



## CaptainAmerica

scrappinginontario said:


> Has it been confirmed that IA$ will only be added to 1 or 2 rides/park?  I haven't found where that is confirmed.
> 
> The original announcement could be interpreted a couple of ways:
> - only 1 or 2 IA$ per park
> or
> - a guest is limited to 2 IA$/day


It has been confirmed by "insiders" but not by Disney themselves.  At launch, IAS will be offered at two attractions per park.

Space Mountain and Mine Train
Ratatouille and Test Track
Rise of the Resistance and Slinky Dog Dash
Kilimanjaro Safaris and Flight of Passage

Good news for Soarin, Smuggler's Run, Runaway Railway, and Expedition Everest fans.

Presumably, TRON will replace Space Mountain and Cosmic Rewind will replace Test Track when those attractions open, but that's just speculation on my part.


----------



## CaptainAmerica

ZellyB said:


> I actually don't think they will have a big number of rides that are IA$.  If they do too many then G+ loses its appeal.


Also, people just won't pay for a lot of these rides.  Arguably, the only ones that "need" it are the brand new ones that have virtual queues anyways... Rise, Rat, Tron, and Guardians.


----------



## scrappinginontario

shawthorne44 said:


> They have said 7-8 IA$$$ rides in all of WDW.


Can you please provide the link to this information?

There is a lot of chatter and very little actual information from Disney.

Trust me, I hope it's only 2 rides per park but will believe it when I see it.


----------



## JoJoGirl

CaptainAmerica said:


> It has been confirmed by "insiders" but not by Disney themselves.  At launch, IAS will be offered at two attractions per park.
> 
> Space Mountain and Mine Train
> Ratatouille and Test Track
> Rise of the Resistance and Slinky Dog Dash
> Kilimanjaro Safaris and Flight of Passage
> 
> Good news for Soarin, Smuggler's Run, Runaway Railway, and Expedition Everest fans.
> 
> Presumably, TRON will replace Space Mountain and Cosmic Rewind will replace Test Track when those attractions open, but that's just speculation on my part.



Also good news for parents of little girls who love Frozen. 

If that list is true, I will probably skip Test Track and Space Mountain.  Neither of them is worth a long wait or an extra charge to me.  Depending on how intense Tron and GotG are, I may skip those too because I am getting old.  Just as well, because that makes G+ more valuable to me at MK and even Epcot.

Still a little perplexed about the Safari being an IA$.  It was never hard to get at least one FP+ a day for that ride.  Now it will be either pay up or wait in that slow standby line.  Hopefully Safari will be one of the lower-priced selections.

One positive I can see about IA$ As opposed to G+ is the ability to choose your time.  If you can schedule your first headliner for say 1:00, then ride it as your last attraction before your afternoon break, you can leave the park on a high note.  And if you can schedule IA$ #2 for your evening park, that gives you something to look forward to.  Time will tell.


----------



## Marionnette

CBMom01 said:


> So, I read it that when you pay for IA$ you get to choose 2 rides from a small list across parks.


You choose your IA$ individually and pay at the time you pick your return time. You don't purchase IA$ and then select 2 from a list of attractions. Each attraction will have its own price. Some might be as low as $4 while others could be as much as $24 (initially).


----------



## shawthorne44

scrappinginontario said:


> Can you please provide the link to this information?
> 
> There is a lot of chatter and very little actual information from Disney.
> 
> Trust me, I hope it's only 2 rides per park but will believe it when I see it.



You are right, nothing official.

Just "Haunted Mansion to thrill rides like Big Thunder Mountain Railroad and newer favorites like Millennium Falcon: Smugglers Run" as on G+ and
"Seven Dwarfs Mine Train" for IA$$$.


----------



## Grumpy by Birth

CaptainAmerica said:


> It has been confirmed by "insiders" but not by Disney themselves.  *At launch*, IAS will be offered at two attractions per park.
> 
> Space Mountain and Mine Train
> Ratatouille and Test Track
> Rise of the Resistance and Slinky Dog Dash
> Kilimanjaro Safaris and Flight of Passage
> 
> Good news for Soarin, Smuggler's Run, Runaway Railway, and Expedition Everest fans.
> 
> Presumably, TRON will replace Space Mountain and Cosmic Rewind will replace Test Track when those attractions open, but that's just speculation on my part.


Emphasis added.


----------



## CaptainAmerica

Grumpy by Birth said:


> Emphasis added.


Disney wants to sell Genie+ to everyone. They're not going to cannibalize Genie+ perceived value for the sake of IAS, which will have much lower uptake.


----------



## Amore Disney

CaptainAmerica said:


> Disney wants to sell Genie+ to everyone. They're not going to cannibalize Genie+ perceived value for the sake of IAS, which will have much lower uptake.


Businesses cannibalize their products all the time; it's just a matter of total profits. The iPhone 13 was just announced, and that will cannibalize iPhone 12 sales. 

I am fairly certain Disney will alter IAS offerings, both by # and available attractions based on demand. I could see them changing some parks to 3 IAS, like at Epcot once Guardians of the Galaxy opens. And then other parks like AK changing to 1 IAS to only FOP if having both FOP and EE is cannibalizing Genie+ too much.


----------



## Kbrb

Lee Matthews said:


> I don’t think it’s a case of being thankful but I am surprised that Disney has thrown a bone and kept water parks/ Photopass on the 1-2 week passes as they could have easily stripped them out like annual passes.
> 
> Personally I don’t think the UK park tickets are priced too badly but that’s my opinion. A single day adult ticket to chessington is £60
> 
> In regards to Genie+, it’s optional if people want to use it. US visitors are probably more pushed to use it as they go for much shorter trips




No offense but your original post was stating you dont understand how this has added $500 on a trip. My post laid out how it does. Now your saying you dont have to buy it. By that logic i dont have to go at all and i will save loads.  Regardless of how much the tickets are. They have priced them in a way to get us over, onsite for 2 weeks. The cheap tickets and free food are offers they have worked out they need to offer. Stripping out is the number one goal for them at the moment and they still gave the UK guests offers. Which would suggest they know the market wont tolerate anything less. 

If they then plan on up selling the stay based on "dont want to spend 4k to stand in lines simply pay more" then i think they will be in for a shock. A quick look at the DIBB board is enough to see the backlash.

I would also suggest that UK guests dont go to Disney every year. Most still class it as once in a life time which pushes us more to "get everything done" which in turns pushes us to pay for the up charges. 

I wouldnt be overly shocked to see genie+ offered free with 14 night stays and tickets.


----------



## ThistleMae

scrappinginontario said:


> Not saying you're wrong, just that I see it differently.
> 
> I'm guessing G+ will work a lot like FP+ and everything will be released at the same time.  The more interest there is in a ride, the less availability there will be earlier in the day as it fills quickly and the later the time will be presented.  I feel (again, only my opinion) that some of the more attractive rides will fill their G+ allotment early in the day.  Yes, some may open later as people choose to cancel and look for a different one or, plans change but who knows?  Similar to FP+, I would hope for but not expect to get a G+ for a popular ride if I hop to that park.  I see most of the availability later in the day being for less popular rides.
> 
> Time will tell.  For now, everything is speculation.


If it works this way won't it discourage folks from purchasing PH, especially since you can't hop till 2 p.m.?


----------



## goofynut41

When does all this take place and how will it effect Rise Of Restence? We will be there in early Dec and would like to have a idea of how this will work.. My husband is a HUGE Star Wars fan and want to get on ROR if possible..


----------



## Marionnette

goofynut41 said:


> When does all this take place and how will it effect Rise Of Restence? We will be there in early Dec and would like to have a idea of how this will work.. My husband is a HUGE Star Wars fan and want to get on ROR if possible..


Disney has been radio silent on the subject of Genie+ and IA$ since the announcement on August 18. There have been reports that it will start on October 4th but those are unconfirmed. Signage has already gone up for Lightning Lanes where FastPass entrances used to be.

The list of IA$ attractions has not been released. Pricing is expected to run anywhere from $4-$24 per person per attraction. ROTR is almost certain to be an IA$ attraction, although some free boarding groups are anticipated to be made available. Given the ride's limited capacity, you can expect free boarding groups to be much more limited in quantity that before.


----------



## Kbrb

Marionnette said:


> Disney has been radio silent on the subject of Genie+ and IA$ since the announcement on August 18. There have been reports that it will start on October 4th but those are unconfirmed. Signage has already gone up for Lightning Lanes where FastPass entrances used to be.
> 
> The list of IA$ attractions has not been released. Pricing is expected to run anywhere from $4-$24 per person per attraction. ROTR is almost certain to be an IA$ attraction, although some free boarding groups are anticipated to be made available. Given the ride's limited capacity, you can expect free boarding groups to be much more limited in quantity that before.



I can only imagine the bad PR they will get when they announce that pricing. Internally they must be dreading having to put that out.  They are better getting it over and done with asap, its not going to get any better


----------



## luv2cheer92

Marionnette said:


> Disney has been radio silent on the subject of Genie+ and IA$ since the announcement on August 18. There have been reports that it will start on October 4th but those are unconfirmed. Signage has already gone up for Lightning Lanes where FastPass entrances used to be.
> 
> The list of IA$ attractions has not been released. Pricing is expected to run anywhere from $4-$24 per person per attraction. ROTR is almost certain to be an IA$ attraction, although some free boarding groups are anticipated to be made available. Given the ride's limited capacity, you can expect free boarding groups to be much more limited in quantity that before.


RotR was one of the three rides that Disney already confirmed was going to be IAS


----------



## Marionnette

Kbrb said:


> I can only imagine the bad PR they will get when they announce that pricing. Internally they must be dreading having to put that out.  They are better getting it over and done with asap, its not going to get any better


I'm not sure why they are delaying it. I think it would have been better to rip the Band-Aid off at the beginning. But I guess they're hoping that the dust from the initial announcement will settle and they can roll this thing out while the "magic" of the 50th is still making the internet buzz.


----------



## goofynut41

luv2cheer92 said:


> RotR was one of the three rides that Disney already confirmed was going to be IAS


So if you get the Genie+ you wont have to do the lottery early in the morning?


----------



## luv2cheer92

goofynut41 said:


> So if you get the Genie+ you wont have to do the lottery early in the morning?


RotR is not a part of Genie+. It will have two options. The same boarding group process it has had, or purchasing the IAS for it.


----------



## Kingoglow

Marionnette said:


> I'm not sure why they are delaying it. I think it would have been better to rip the Band-Aid off at the beginning. But I guess they're hoping that the dust from the initial announcement will settle and they can roll this thing out while the "magic" of the 50th is still making the internet buzz.



Why would they announce anything about the cost of IA$? 
Since surge prices are being used, they don't have to plan in a top end price at all. Do you want them to say that IA$ reservations could cost '$1.00 or more'?

I know that this group is trying to model this agains the system in Disneyland Paris but really this is its own thing. The price could be anything.


----------



## Marionnette

goofynut41 said:


> So if you get the Genie+ you wont have to do the lottery early in the morning?


Just to be clear:
Genie+ is the $15 per person per day line-skipping purchase that will allow you to hold one Lightning Lane return time at a time. It will not include all attractions because some attractions will involve a separate charge in order to skip their standby lines.

IA$ (Individual Atrraction Selection) is an additional fee-per-attraction for skipping the standby line (or boarding group system) at attractions that are not included in Genie+. They will reportedly be the most in-demand attractions, such as ROTR.


----------



## MrBellatrixLestrange

Marionnette said:


> Just to be clear:
> Genie+ is the $15 per person per day line-skipping purchase that will allow you to hold one Lightning Lane return time at a time. It will not include all attractions because some attractions will involve a separate charge in order to skip their standby lines.
> 
> IA$ (Individual Atrraction Selection) is an additional fee-per-attraction for skipping the standby line (or boarding group system) at attractions that are not included in Genie+. They will reportedly be the most in-demand attractions, such as ROTR.


Ain't it great to have Disney Genie+ to simplify trips to WDW?  Another 110+ pages and we'll all be slightly less confused...


----------



## Marionnette

Kingoglow said:


> Why would they announce anything about the cost of IA$?
> Since surge prices are being used, they don't have to plan in a top end price at all. Do you want them to say that IA$ reservations could cost '$1.00 or more'?
> 
> I know that this group is trying to model this agains the system in Disneyland Paris but really this is its own thing. The price could be anything.


It would be nice to know a start date. It would be nice to know which attractions will be included in IA$. It would be nice to know what kind of price range we're looking at for IA$ attractions.

And FWIW, Disney has neither verified nor denied that there will be surge pricing. So I don't understand why you would state it as a fact.


----------



## goofynut41

MrBellatrixLestrange said:


> Ain't it great to have Disney Genie+ to simplify trips to WDW?  Another 110+ pages and we'll all be slightly less confused...


never thought you would need docturet degree to go to disney  ... that leaves me out


----------



## WRLeGrand

Any reliable information about when Genie+ will start? We got in three weeks and would really kind of prefer this be in place...


----------



## Marionnette

WRLeGrand said:


> Any reliable information about when Genie+ will start? We got in three weeks and would really kind of prefer this be in place...


The only reliable info would come directly from Disney and they're not saying. Signage is up for Lightning Lanes where FastPass lines existed previously. But Go Live has not been announced.


----------



## btuftee

goofynut41 said:


> never thought you would need docturet degree to go to disney  ... that leaves me out



Well, all that G+ really is, is a paid version of the old pre-2013 FP system.  Instead of physically walking to the FP kiosks and inserting your ticket, now you just tap your phone a few times.  No need to worry about selecting your FP+ selections and booking a time slot 60 days out.  In that sense, it's much simpler than FP+.  

I do wonder if Disney is going to make some allowance for people without smartphones - in the days of FP+, there were touchscreen kiosks and Cast Members with iPads ready to assist if you didn't have a smartphone in the parks or were having issues.  In the old days of FP, there was always a Cast Member hanging around the FP kiosk machines to deal with the inevitable issues you might have as well, so I would think they've got to be planning for that.


----------



## Marionnette

btuftee said:


> Well, all that G+ really is, is a paid version of the old pre-2013 FP system.  Instead of physically walking to the FP kiosks and inserting your ticket, now you just tap your phone a few times.  No need to worry about selecting your FP+ selections and booking a time slot 60 days out.  In that sense, it's much simpler than FP+.
> 
> I do wonder if Disney is going to make some allowance for people without smartphones - in the days of FP+, there were touchscreen kiosks and Cast Members with iPads ready to assist if you didn't have a smartphone in the parks or were having issues.  In the old days of FP, there was always a Cast Member hanging around the FP kiosk machines to deal with the inevitable issues you might have as well, so I would think they've got to be planning for that.


There were reports that FP+ kiosks were uncovered and dusted off months ago. My guess is that those will be used for Genie+ and IA$ if people without smartphones want to purchase and use it. Seems like it would be more hassle than it is worth for Genie+ but may be worthwhile for IA$ selections.


----------



## shawthorne44

For people that used MaxPass in DL or DLP, was one person able to reserve for everyone in their party, like with boarding groups?


----------



## TiggerBouncy

luv2cheer92 said:


> RotR is not a part of Genie+. It will have two options. The same boarding group process it has had, or purchasing the IAS for it.



The main difference is before (right now) if you do not get a boarding group, you are SOL and can't see the ride. 

With IA$, you will at least have an OPTION if it's important enough to you. 
My concern is that with rides like RotR, Free Boarding Groups will sell out by 7:00:02 and IA$ will sell out by 7:00:03.


----------



## luv2cheer92

TiggerBouncy said:


> The main difference is before (right now) if you do not get a boarding group, you are SOL and can't see the ride.
> 
> With IA$, you will at least have an OPTION if it's important enough to you.
> My concern is that with rides like RotR, Free Boarding Groups will sell out by 7:00:02 and IA$ will sell out by 7:00:03.


My plan for my solo trip at the beginning of next year is to try for the boarding group and if I don't get it and can't get the IAS then oh well, I've been on it a few times and it's not the end of the  world. But when I go later next year with my dad who is a huge SW fan and hasn't been on it, I'm just going right for the IAS without even trying the free route.


----------



## boilermakeric

Any thoughts yet on how late-arrivals will work with IA$?  Are the windows really likely be ~1 hour like FP+, and you get denied if you are more than 15 min late?  Would hate to be the CM telling a group that their late bus pickup from the resort just made their IA$ purchase expired and non-refundable.


----------



## sjmac42

shawthorne44 said:


> For people that used MaxPass in DL or DLP, was one person able to reserve for everyone in their party, like with boarding groups?


Used MaxPass at DL and FP+ at WDW.  Yes, one person could organise fastpasses for the entire party.  Everyone did have to be scanned in at the turnstiles first but that could also be done on one phone.  MP worked really well and was superior to FP+ imo and was worth the cost at DL.  We will wait and see how similar Genie+ actually is to MP as the big advantage with MP was the ability to “stack” fastpasses throughout the day.  Maintaining this feature from MP in Genie+ would be a big factor in how successful and usable it would be.


----------



## shawthorne44

sjmac42 said:


> We will wait and see how similar Genie+ actually is to MP as the big advantage with MP was the ability to “stack” fastpasses throughout the day.



If this isn't possible, I will be much less excited about G+.  I like the cooling off period or using it to get the next one.


----------



## TiggerBouncy

luv2cheer92 said:


> My plan for my solo trip at the beginning of next year is to try for the boarding group and if I don't get it and can't get the IAS then oh well, I've been on it a few times and it's not the end of the  world. But when I go later next year with my dad who is a huge SW fan and hasn't been on it, I'm just going right for the IAS without even trying the free route.



sounds like a great plan. I’ve seen it a few times, so I’ll probably try for the boarding group, but if I don’t get it, I won’t sweat it. 

I hope your dad gets to enjoy it. It’s truely a next level ride!


----------



## sjmac42

https://www.wdwmagic.com/other/disn...nie-training-ahead-of-the-upcoming-launch.htmReports that cast training for Genie has begun at WDW (and seperate reports for DL as well).  Hopefully further details are not too far behind.


----------



## Figment1990

I've just spent the last several days learning (and trying to forget everything I knew from the last 2 decades) about planning for our November Disney trip.   Thank you to everyone on the Dis for the really excellent sharing of info.   This whole everything unknown is driving me totally bananas!  I had things down to a science.  Now my old spreadsheets are practically useless!   I'm such a planner that this is making it more stressful for me, not less.

I hope they release G+ and IA$ (I like that, I used to call it Genie Plus Plus...) details soon and start it soon so I have some info to work with before November.   I might be willing to pay for some IA$ depending on how the details work out.  And it SURE would be nice if I could plan them ahead at some time that isn't 7am day of as one reason I would like to use it is so I don't have to get up at dawn to rope drop FoP!

At this point, after seeing the pricing for Space 220, and the Very Merry After Hours Party, I'm starting to think that my plan might end up being pay for G+/IA$ and just skip eating entirely.


----------



## shawthorne44

Figment1990 said:


> I'm starting to think that my plan might end up being pay for G+/IA$ and just skip eating entirely.


That is somewhat my plan.   I've cut all "eating in the park just because we are hungry" meals.


----------



## crazymomof4

Marionnette said:


> Disney has been radio silent on the subject of Genie+ and IA$ since the announcement on August 18. There have been reports that *it will start on October 4th* but those are unconfirmed.


Oh... LOVELY!!! (if this turns out to be true)
We arrive the 6th, first park day is the 7th.
Can you say "Guinea Pigs"? 

The only positive I can take out of this is that DH and I will be traveling with DS and DD, both "twenty-somethings". They will pick up the use of the Genie addition to the app very quickly.   A clear advantage over some other poor guests who aren't tech-savvy and/or don't have anyone in their group who is.
So so so glad we only have 2 park days in this one week trip!  I honestly wish it was only ONE park day!


----------



## crazymomof4

Marionnette said:


> It would be nice to know a start date. It would be nice to know which attractions will be included in IA$. It would be nice to know what kind of price range we're looking at for IA$ attractions.


So if WDW is the "host" and we are their "guests" this "radio silence" is like someone invites you to their home, tells you it will be "sometime next week", giving no date or time. You wait. You cannot back out. You still don't know if you are invited over for dinner or lunch or brunch or just dessert or maybe just cocktails.  You don't know if it's going to indoor or outdoor, formal or casual, or if you will be asked to bring a dish to this gathering. The time passes you hear no further info. The day for the event you feel is drawing near but there's no way you can reach this host for more info.  You grow anxious.  
At this point, what are your feelings toward this host and how likely is it that you will ever accept another invitation from this host?
That is the closest thing to how I'm feeling right now.  I'm a planner.  Planning is fun and I like feeling going into a vaca with a solid framework to go off of and modify as we go.  It reduces anxiety while on the trip.


----------



## Kbrb

Kingoglow said:


> Why would they announce anything about the cost of IA$?
> Since surge prices are being used, they don't have to plan in a top end price at all. Do you want them to say that IA$ reservations could cost '$1.00 or more'?
> 
> I know that this group is trying to model this agains the system in Disneyland Paris but really this is its own thing. The price could be anything.



They should use that as the tag line “come to Disney the happiest place on earth where the price could be anything”

They have to have price ranges announced from 5 to 30 for example. To just say “meh you can find out on the day” wouldn’t be a great plan and add to the hatred of the system.

Let people plan for the worst case and if it’s not then happy days.


----------



## pigletgirl

Any word at all on when this launches? Why has Disney been so mum about it?


----------



## Poohsmommi

I hope this available on the 1st. for the 50th.


----------



## DLgal

pigletgirl said:


> Any word at all on when this launches? Why has Disney been so mum about it?



The rumor mill is saying Oct 1. 

Disney is being mum about it because they don't want to give any more opportunities for people to skewer them on social media before the grand reveal.


----------



## DisneyByMarriage

I think I’m in the minority with my group.  We are a multigenerational family going (AP DVC grandparents, son/DIL with 3 kids, and the no kid auntie).  I don’t think we will pay for Genie, but there are two rides my kids all want to do - Slinky and Rise.  I’d pay about $15 pp to know I could ride those without a wait, offsetting that cost with something else.   The peace of mind is have knocking them off the list and not worrying about rope drop or late night rides for those two things.  My children wake up at 6:05 every single day, and since they are young boys, as long as they have a clean shirt, underwear, shorts and socks they will be ready by 6:15.  Matching or combing hair isn’t something on their radar.  So we are always ready way before everyone else, and the 20 minutes we spend waiting to see if anyone else in the group is actually ready to leave with us is the most stressful wait of the trip.  I know we will hit all the other rides we want to do utilizing a rope drop strategy.  And then after we pay once to do them, it’s unlikely we’d ever do it again.


----------



## ofcabbagesandkings

It's weird, I don't even have a WDW trip planned, but I still had a stress dream about Genie +, where I got to the park after having made my selections only to discover that my phone was on 5% battery and the Lightning Lanes no longer used Magic Bands, so without my phone I had no proof of my reservations. I do hope, at the very least, that they keep the old FP+ kiosks for Genie + and Magic Bands so that those of us who don't want to be glued to our phones the whole day, or bring multiple backup chargers, have the option to just scan our bands at the kiosks when we want to make or change a reservation. I really loved not being on my phone all day on previous trips, I would just check screenshots to remind me about my FP and ADR times, and that was all. And my kids loved holding their magic bands up to the FP touchpoint to watch the Mickey turn green. Maybe some will think it's stupid, but little things like that felt magical and special. Since they're now charging for Magic Bands, I have to assume they plan to keep them instead of phasing them out, but they've phased out other things before.


----------



## goofynut41

TiggerBouncy said:


> The main difference is before (right now) if you do not get a boarding group, you are SOL and can't see the ride.
> 
> With IA$, you will at least have an OPTION if it's important enough to you.
> My concern is that with rides like RotR, Free Boarding Groups will sell out by 7:00:02 and IA$ will sell out by 7:00:03.


So you will still need to do the lottery at 7:00 you just have to pick which one and still might not be able to ride it?????


----------



## twincruisers

Let's not forget that VQ rides have a 1pm release too that has a higher chance to get a BG. Of course worst-case scenario's will sound very bad, but we should see how everything goes the first few weeks before passing judgement.


----------



## tlcdoula

sjmac42 said:


> Used MaxPass at DL and FP+ at WDW.  Yes, one person could organise fastpasses for the entire party.  Everyone did have to be scanned in at the turnstiles first but that could also be done on one phone.  MP worked really well and was superior to FP+ imo and was worth the cost at DL.  We will wait and see how similar Genie+ actually is to MP as the big advantage with MP was the ability to “stack” fastpasses throughout the day.  Maintaining this feature from MP in Genie+ would be a big factor in how successful and usable it would be.


This is what I am curious about how it will work for booking your next pass.  We used Max Pass at DL on a few trips and found it very useful.  I am hopeful it will work the same because some days we would be going from ride to ride with fast passes and then be able to take a break for a longer lunch or back to the hotel and have a couple for the evening.  It was also nice to have photo pass included as well so that part being taken away is unfortunate.


----------



## shawthorne44

twincruisers said:


> Let's not forget that VQ rides have a 1pm release too that has a higher chance to get a BG. Of course worst-case scenario's will sound very bad, but we should see how everything goes the first few weeks before passing judgement.



Note, I'm a fan of G+ and even OK with them selling IA$$$.   But, it makes sense that there will be less chance to get on using the 1PM BG drop.    Everyone that that got a morning BG and everyone that got a IA$$$ will get on first.


----------



## E.Jane

I don't have an upcoming trip, but I'm breaking out in a nervous sweat just trying to keeping up with changes so I'm at least somewhat prepared for the next trip.  112 pages is a LOT of reading!


----------



## NickC

E.Jane said:


> I don't have an upcoming trip, but I'm breaking out in a nervous sweat just trying to keeping up with changes so I'm at least somewhat prepared for the next trip.  112 pages is a LOT of reading!



Yeah, I'm following along without a trip booked too. My plan is to wait and read the experiences here when the system is rolled out.


----------



## TiggerBouncy

goofynut41 said:


> So you will still need to do the lottery at 7:00 you just have to pick which one and still might not be able to ride it?????



Don't take my concern as fact.  I don't know how it's going to work in practice. I just said that was my concern.


----------



## Newbie500

trvlgirlmq said:


> Paying for any ride once I have already bought a ticket that costs hundreds of dollars per person is ridiculous.  We couldn't even get the tickets for the Star Wars ride at 7am.  We are ride family.  That is what we go to do.  If I can't ride every ride I want as many times as I want on a trip then there is no point in going.  Thanks for the heads up. It will be Europe every year from now on.



Disney is simply treating people who are willing to spend more money better than those who are not. Disney doesn't care if a family stops going because there is probably another family right behind that one who will pay the extra cost.   They are counting on that.


----------



## Brook~n~Matt

I have an upcoming trip in December, and we will inevitably get G+ which will add ANOTHER $400-$500 to the cost of our trip. My husband is incredulous. I am resigned and nervous. I don't like not knowing what the cost of the IA$ (thanks to whoever broke that down on page 111) because I am a budgeter on our trips and I like to know what to budget for. Not having the DP is already throwing a wrench in my budgeting lol. 

I'll say one more thing about G+, cost aside. I'm EXHAUSTED of my phone. I hate the fact that we have to tote them everywhere we go in the parks just to use all the features of being on vacation. I would love it if I could just leave it in the room. I miss the FP kiosk days tbh. I guess I'm getting old.


----------



## SCDisneyfanatic

Brook~n~Matt said:


> I have an upcoming trip in December, and we will inevitably get G+ which will add ANOTHER $400-$500 to the cost of our trip. My husband is incredulous. I am resigned and nervous. I don't like not knowing what the cost of the IA$ (thanks to whoever broke that down on page 111) because I am a budgeter on our trips and I like to know what to budget for. Not having the DP is already throwing a wrench in my budgeting lol.
> 
> I'll say one more thing about G+, cost aside. I'm EXHAUSTED of my phone. I hate the fact that we have to tote them everywhere we go in the parks just to use all the features of being on vacation. I would love it if I could just leave it in the room. I miss the FP kiosk days tbh. I guess I'm getting old.


You make a great point about the phones...which made me think of a question I have:  on the My Disney Experience App I have the reservations for Park Entry.  It has the entire group.  I assume I can just show that and get in or do each of the people need a separate way to show their reservation?  Obviously since 2 are young children, they won't be separate from me.  And do we do the same for Dining reservations?  Just use the App on my phone?  How about the Genie+...will that be on a phone only as well?  Dang!! I hate carrying a phone!


----------



## Marionnette

SCDisneyfanatic said:


> You make a great point about the phones...which made me think of a question I have:  on the My Disney Experience App I have the reservations for Park Entry.  It has the entire group.  I assume I can just show that and get in or do each of the people need a separate way to show their reservation?  Obviously since 2 are young children, they won't be separate from me.  And do we do the same for Dining reservations?  Just use the App on my phone?  How about the Genie+...will that be on a phone only as well?  Dang!! I hate carrying a phone!


The park reservations are linked to your MDE account. When you scan a MB or park ticket at the gate, a quick verification process of "Is this ticket valid?" Followed by "Does this person have a park reservation for this park?" occurs. So when each member of your party goes through the gate with their admission media, that is how their park reservations are confirmed for the day.

For dining reservations, you can check in from your phone by scanning a QR code located near the hostess podium. Or you can go old school and just tell the hostess that you have arrived.

Genie will be an app, so yes it's going to be on your smart device.


----------



## twincruisers

shawthorne44 said:


> Note, I'm a fan of G+ and even OK with them selling IA$$$.   But, it makes sense that there will be less chance to get on using the 1PM BG drop.    Everyone that that got a morning BG and everyone that got a IA$$$ will get on first.


Without a doubt IA$ will impact free BG's, we just need to see how the balance is. If IA$ takes up 50% it will be very painful for a lot of people but if it's only 5%, that may not hurt the VQ crowd as much.


----------



## emilymad

Has Disney said that VQ will still be at 7am/1pm still?  Couldn't they change those times to fit in with IA$?


----------



## Marionnette

emilymad said:


> Has Disney said that VQ will still be at 7am/1pm still?  Couldn't they change those times to fit in with IA$?


They just announced that ROTR will be pausing the VQ beginning on Sept. 23. Whether that "pause" foreshadows what will happen in the future is anyone's guess.

https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/b...before-at-disneys-hollywood-studios/#comments


----------



## Disney mac

Figment1990 said:


> I've just spent the last several days learning (and trying to forget everything I knew from the last 2 decades) about planning for our November Disney trip.   Thank you to everyone on the Dis for the really excellent sharing of info.   This whole everything unknown is driving me totally bananas!  I had things down to a science.  Now my old spreadsheets are practically useless!   I'm such a planner that this is making it more stressful for me, not less.
> 
> I hope they release G+ and IA$ (I like that, I used to call it Genie Plus Plus...) details soon and start it soon so I have some info to work with before November.   I might be willing to pay for some IA$ depending on how the details work out.  And it SURE would be nice if I could plan them ahead at some time that isn't 7am day of as one reason I would like to use it is so I don't have to get up at dawn to rope drop FoP!
> 
> At this point, after seeing the pricing for Space 220, and the Very Merry After Hours Party, I'm starting to think that my plan might end up being pay for G+/IA$ and just skip eating entirely.


Maybe I missed this…can you get IA$ without purchasing Genie+?  I think it’s gonna cost you both., but I may be wrong.  
To me it seems like it's becoming Pay for genie+ or get Covid in lines indoors…


----------



## Marionnette

Disney mac said:


> Maybe I missed this…can you get IA$ without purchasing Genie+?  I think it’s gonna cost you both., but I may be wrong.
> To me it seems like it's becoming Pay for genie+ or get Covid in lines indoors…


You don't need to purchase Genie+ in order to buy IA$ but you will need to have the Genie app in order to do it from your phone.


----------



## Winnesota

Marionnette said:


> You don't need to purchase Genie+ in order to buy IA$ but you will need to have the Genie app in order to do it from your phone.



I could be wrong, but isn't Genie just going to be part of MDE, not be a separate app?


----------



## Disney mac

Marionnette said:


> You don't need to purchase Genie+ in order to buy IA$ but you will need to have the Genie app in order to do it from your phone.


Wonder when they will start to charge for the app.


----------



## Marionnette

Winnesota said:


> I could be wrong, but isn't Genie just going to be part of MDE, not be a separate app?


Genie is the app that is part of (or replaces) the MDE app.

Genie+ is the $15 per person per day upcharge that is replacing FP+.

I really wish they had come up with different names because it is really confusing.


----------



## Marionnette

Disney mac said:


> Wonder when they will start to charge for the app.


I think they will want everyone to use the app, so it will be free. There's a lot of tracking data that they can pull from the app while you wander around the park. 

And it is being touted as an assistant that will help your tour more smoothly. IOW, it will be used to direct guests away from crowded areas to other parts of the park.


----------



## Disney mac

Marionnette said:


> I think they will want everyone to use the app, so it will be free. There's a lot of tracking data that they can pull from the app while you wander around the park.
> 
> And it is being touted as an assistant that will help your tour more smoothly. IOW, it will be used to direct guests away from crowded areas to other parts of the park.


I was kidding, but would be surprised at nothing....heck they might start to charge people every time someone says genie, but charge more to say genie +....


----------



## scrappinginontario

Winnesota said:


> I could be wrong, but isn't Genie just going to be part of MDE, not be a separate app?


One of the many unknowns IMHO


----------



## luv2cheer92

Winnesota said:


> I could be wrong, but isn't Genie just going to be part of MDE, not be a separate app?


Yes, it will be part of MDE.


----------



## Narcoossee11

Marionnette said:


> They just announced that ROTR will be pausing the VQ beginning on Sept. 23. Whether that "pause" foreshadows what will happen in the future is anyone's guess.
> 
> https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/b...before-at-disneys-hollywood-studios/#comments


I think we have a start date of GENIE.... On Sept. 23


----------



## Grumpy by Birth

Marionnette said:


> They just announced that ROTR will be pausing the VQ beginning on Sept. 23. Whether that "pause" foreshadows what will happen in the future is anyone's guess.


Interesting development.  My cynical side thinks that Disney is calculating that people will be more likely to purchase IA$ if the alternative is a 3-6 hour SB line vs. everyone who gets a BG can do other things, then show up at their designated time and wait an hour or less.  If they eliminate VQ/BG for ROTR, the SB line will double or triple (or more), making a $24.99 IA$ more tempting.


----------



## itf

Grumpy by Birth said:


> Interesting development.  My cynical side thinks that Disney is calculating that people will be more likely to purchase IA$ if the alternative is a 3-6 hour SB line vs. everyone who gets a BG can do other things, then show up at their designated time and wait an hour or less.  If they eliminate VQ/BG for ROTR, the SB line will double or triple (or more), making a $24.99 IA$ more tempting.



Yes they’ll use the genie data to understand the optimal line length where people give up and pay and price it so the line is always at or around that length for optimal profit.


----------



## Kbrb

itf said:


> Yes they’ll use the genie data to understand the optimal line length where people give up and pay and price it so the line is always at or around that length for optimal profit.



Anyone that thinks the free version will be anything other than data collection to push the upsell on is kidding themselves. I honestly think it will push guests around to create artificially long lines, before suggesting you pay up.

Im actually glad we have a travel ban on. Bless those of you heading to the 50th and being the Geniepigs for this mad scheme


----------



## itf

Agree it’s basically going to be Rollercoaster Tycoon but in the real world and with state of the art machine learning for profit maximisation I suspect.


----------



## SCDisneyfanatic

Marionnette said:


> The park reservations are linked to your MDE account. When you scan a MB or park ticket at the gate, a quick verification process of "Is this ticket valid?" Followed by "Does this person have a park reservation for this park?" occurs. So when each member of your party goes through the gate with their admission media, that is how their park reservations are confirmed for the day.
> 
> For dining reservations, you can check in from your phone by scanning a QR code located near the hostess podium. Or you can go old school and just tell the hostess that you have arrived.
> 
> Genie will be an app, so yes it's going to be on your smart device.


Thanks for the words.  That sure helps.


----------



## Grasshopper2016

Kbrb said:


> Geniepigs


I love it!


----------



## Distriv

Narcoossee11 said:


> I think we have a start date of GENIE.... On Sept. 23


I think they'll use the first week as a test-and-adjust on ROTR to see how long they can let the standby queue get, thus letting them have a better idea of how many Lighting Lane passes they can sell a day.




itf said:


> Agree it’s basically going to be Rollercoaster Tycoon but in the real world and with state of the art machine learning for profit maximisation I suspect.


"Oh it's raining, guess these umbrellas cost $75 now, ahahahahaha!"


----------



## itf

Distriv said:


> I think they'll use the first week as a test-and-adjust on ROTR to see how long they can let the standby queue get, thus letting them have a better idea of how many Lighting Lane passes they can sell a day.
> 
> 
> 
> "Oh it's raining, guess these umbrellas cost $75 now, ahahahahaha!"



You joke but grocery stores over here have started experimenting with screen shelf labelling which could be dynamically priced!

Edit - a few people reacted to this - it's a real thing, you can read more here. https://www.displaydata.com/


----------



## menotyou21

I get both sides of the "like" and "don't like" regarding Genie+....but with me being responsible for the entire family for the entire trip; I like having the ability to put my phone in my pocket for the majority of the day.  I saw this picture on a site today....the photo was simply for showing the crowd at Space 220.  I've "blurred out" with red circles(ish) the *9 *faces I saw.....in just a small piece of the pic....looking at their phones. I recognize ADRs/table ready notices have been on phones prior; I just felt this pic captured my feelings towards having another need to always be on my phone.  I def don't miss running around the park to get paper FP; and understand I can choose to not use the service....


----------



## JCornell

itf said:


> You joke but grocery stores over here have started experimenting with screen shelf labelling which could be dynamically priced!
> 
> Edit - a few people reacted to this - it's a real thing, you can read more here. https://www.displaydata.com/


Yes, a lot of printer and retail companies have played around with one version or another of "electronic ink".  More and more places are also letting you scan your items and pay from your phone without going to a checkout.  Once that becomes the norm, you could easily eliminate the need for price tags or shelf pricing in general.


----------



## Makmak

JCornell said:


> Yes, a lot of printer and retail companies have played around with one version or another of "electronic ink".  More and more places are also letting you scan your items and pay from your phone without going to a checkout.  Once that becomes the norm, you could easily eliminate the need for price tags or shelf pricing in general.


We asked about a price for some baby yoda crocs at a shop in HS and the girl working picked them up and took them to the register. I was apologizing and telling her I looked all over and couldn’t find a price and she said “I’ll have to scan it because they don’t put a price out because they want to change it whenever they want”…the price for the crocs was over sixty dollars THATS a pass


----------



## JCornell

Makmak said:


> We asked about a price for some baby yoda crocs at a shop in HS and the girl working picked them up and took them to the register. I was apologizing and telling her I looked all over and couldn’t find a price and she said “I’ll have to scan it because they don’t put a price out because they want to change it whenever they want”…the price for the crocs was over sixty dollars THATS a pass


See, if you could scan it yourself, you could immediately make your purchase decision and they could also change the price at any time (they'd also have some metrics about how often people are scanning vs buying).  No need or delay for the floor person interaction anymore.


----------



## scrappinginontario

JCornell said:


> See, if you could scan it yourself, you could immediately make your purchase decision and they could also change the price at any time (they'd also have some metrics about how often people are scanning vs buying).  No need or delay for the floor person interaction anymore.


They are doing this at some of the Disney stores.  The new Creation Shop in Epcot as well as the World of Disney store in DS.  I'm sure there are others too but basically you have the option to scan your own items as you add them to your basket so it's a form of self checkout.

I watched a video today of Ryno checking out the new Creation Shop and was surprised how many items were not priced.  Personally I'm less likely to purchase something if I have to work to find the price.  I'm more likely to put it back and move on.


----------



## crazymomof4

scrappinginontario said:


> Personally I'm less likely to purchase something if I have to work to find the price.  I'm more likely to put it back and move on.


Totally me!  I am price-driven.  A lower than expected price will get me to buy. A higher than expected will have me return it to the shelf and no price (and no easy way to detect the price) will have me just walking away.  Time is $$... and that is true while on a WDW vaca too.


----------



## gharter

Surprised they don't have scanners out for you to check prices. Many stores around us may not have all the prices out, but they have a scanner every few isles.


----------



## canyoncam

scrappinginontario said:


> They are doing this at some of the Disney stores.  The new Creation Shop in Epcot as well as the World of Disney store in DS.  I'm sure there are others too but basically you have the option to scan your own items as you add them to your basket so it's a form of self checkout.
> 
> I watched a video today of Ryno checking out the new Creation Shop and was surprised how many items were not priced.  Personally I'm less likely to purchase something if I have to work to find the price.  I'm more likely to put it back and move on.



Having worked retail most my life, this is true of most people. I have noticed over the last decade people wanting less of an interaction with staff in the store. So unless there is a way for the costumer to find the price on their own I do not see this going over well. If you can find the price through your own device I can see it working out very well, especially by finding the sweet spot for pricing or better yet by tracking each individual consumer and finding their sweet spot. I assume this can be done, not that it’s fair to the overall public but certainly for  the retailer. Too much backlash but definitely possible.


----------



## itf

canyoncam said:


> Having worked retail most my life, this is true of most people. I have noticed over the last decade people wanting less of an interaction with staff in the store. So unless there is a way for the costumer to find the price on their own I do not see this going over well. If you can find the price through your own device I can see it working out very well, especially by finding the sweet spot for pricing or better yet by tracking each individual consumer and finding their sweet spot. I assume this can be done, not that it’s fair to the overall public but certainly for  the retailer. Too much backlash but definitely possible.



And this is how it'll likely go - not now but in 5 years time or whenever this app based shopping is commonplace. We're veering wildly off topic - but if you've picked that thing up and put it back down x times, then magically a coupon offers you 10% off etc...


----------



## Stephy811

So back on Genie+…any speculation on what the hold up is as far as announcing which attractions and/or pricing?  Surely there would have been plenty of analysis internally as far as pricing before they announced anything at all…so why no more news at this point?  They’ve already started changing the signs and we’ve all braced ourselves that it’s coming…just get it over with!  I’m a little scared that the rides/prices won’t be announced until the first day you can buy them at this point!!!


----------



## persnickity

Stephy811 said:


> So back on Genie+…any speculation on what the hold up is as far as announcing which attractions and/or pricing?  Surely there would have been plenty of analysis internally as far as pricing before they announced anything at all…so why no more news at this point?  They’ve already started changing the signs and we’ve all braced ourselves that it’s coming…just get it over with!  I’m a little scared that the rides/prices won’t be announced until the first day you can buy them at this point!!!



I think they're trying not to kick the hornets nest. Every time they talk about it, it's going to generate a wave of negative comments and publicity. So it's not really in their interest to trickle out more details, as much as we would like them.


----------



## JakeAZ

Disney: "Hey we need you guys to plan months / years in advance of a trip"
Us: "But that's crazy"
Disney: "Do you want to come, or not?"
Us: "Well Ok, at least you'll also announce your changes in advance, with all the info, to give us as much time as possible to adjust, right?"
Disney:......


----------



## cpep42

I wouldn't have minded $15 for all rides.


----------



## NickC

I'm curious as to how many people who are planning to use IA$, plan to use it more than once. I've never done RotR, so I would be willing to pay extra to experience it. But, I don't see myself paying annually to ride it. I've done FoP a number of times, and each time I've had a FP+. Unless someone else in my party MUST ride it, I wouldn't pay extra for it.


----------



## itf

My current thinking is I’ll have to pay once for RoTR but for our trip we had three visits booked to HS across our two weeks in case we didn’t get a boarding group. We will now only go twice and use the extra day as a hotel day or go to a different park, and just do ROTR once.


----------



## CWTC

NickC said:


> I'm curious as to how many people who are planning to use IA$, plan to use it more than once. I've never done RotR, so I would be willing to pay extra to experience it. But, I don't see myself paying annually to ride it. I've done FoP a number of times, and each time I've had a FP+. Unless someone else in my party MUST ride it, I wouldn't pay extra for it.


We’re likely to pay once, maybe twice for ROTR and maybe once for Remy (depending on how crazy/popular the BGs are). Beyond that, nothing that we would pay an upcharge.  Honestly we didn’t even like FOP.


----------



## crazymomof4

NickC said:


> I'm curious as to how many people who are planning to use IA$, plan to use it more than once. I've never done RotR, so I would be willing to pay extra to experience it. But, I don't see myself paying annually to ride it. I've done FoP a number of times, and each time I've had a FP+. Unless someone else in my party MUST ride it, I wouldn't pay extra for it.


We are only doing 1 day at Epcot and one in MK for this upcoming trip. We've all decided the ONLY thing we would consider paying IA$ for is Remy's and THAT'S because I don't think we will be taking another WDW vacation in a number of years.  If we were planning on coming back at our usual frequency, I'm not sure we'd pay for IA$ even for Remy.  We'd say, "if we don't get a BG, we'll catch it next year"
As many others have said, I'd be totally fine with the $15 Genie+ pp / day. Paid that, without batting an eye, for MaxPass on our 2018 DLR trip and then the $20 it was in 2019.  The IA$ goes against my grain so much more.


----------



## snikki

NickC said:


> I'm curious as to how many people who are planning to use IA$, plan to use it more than once. I've never done RotR, so I would be willing to pay extra to experience it. But, I don't see myself paying annually to ride it. I've done FoP a number of times, and each time I've had a FP+. Unless someone else in my party MUST ride it, I wouldn't pay extra for it.



We only go every 2-3 years (closer to 3) so we will most likely pay for whatever big ride can have 3-4 hour lines or have a chance of risking injury or fights to do RD. We’ve never done ROTR. We haven’t been since it opened. Right now I think we will pay for that ride and FOP. All the other rumored IAS rides I think can be done at early entry or end of park day.

When and if we go back in a few years who knows what ride we will pay for then. In 2-3 years ROTR will probably have died down a bit and the hysteria will be onto another ride.


----------



## Marionnette

NickC said:


> I'm curious as to how many people who are planning to use IA$, plan to use it more than once. I've never done RotR, so I would be willing to pay extra to experience it. But, I don't see myself paying annually to ride it. I've done FoP a number of times, and each time I've had a FP+. Unless someone else in my party MUST ride it, I wouldn't pay extra for it.


Right now, I cannot see myself paying for IA$ for anything that Disney has. I've done ROTR twice. I wasn't wowed either time. The most memorable part (in a bad way) was the CM who mask-shamed a young girl loudly and mercilessly in queue.

I enjoy FOP more than ROTR but have done it enough times that I don't need to ride it again.

7DMTR, SpcMtn, TT are all been there, done that. I'm not paying extra to ride them again. If standby lines are long, I have no qualms about not riding.

My brother just did the DVC preview of Remy yesterday. His verdict is that it's cute but he wouldn't pay extra to ride it. And he said that he wouldn't wait longer than 30 minutes to ride it the first time, although the queue appears to have been set up to accommodate a large number of people. I may just be satisfied to watch a YouTube ride thru video given that the attraction is mostly video screens anyway.


----------



## emilymad

I feel like most of the time we will pay for IA$ but not Genie+ unless it is super crowded.  In AK, we mainly ride the Safari and Navi with just me occasionally doing FOP and EE.  So basically we would be paying $15 for Navi only.  I would rather pay for the Safari and just the occasional FOP ride.


----------



## Q-man

Cj2017 said:


> Man they really are going to wait until after October 1st arent they lol


I doubt they risk this flubbing up everything on the 50th.  My guess is a week before to have time to iron out issues or right after Columbus Day weekend.


----------



## Marionnette

Q-man said:


> I doubt they risk this flubbing up everything on the 50th.  My guess is a week before to have time to iron out issues or a week after.


That would be Friday of this week. Quite possible given that ROTR is going to standby lines instead of boarding groups starting on Thursday.  But my money is on a week after the 50th. I really don't think they want to be rolling this out just as 50th anniversary crowds begin to arrive.


----------



## NickC

CWTC said:


> Honestly we didn’t even like FOP.



I'm not a big fan either. My family likes it, so I ride it. We've always been able to get a FP+ for it every year since it opened, so I don't mind.


----------



## scrappinginontario

Stephy811 said:


> So back on Genie+…any speculation on what the hold up is as far as announcing which attractions and/or pricing?  Surely there would have been plenty of analysis internally as far as pricing before they announced anything at all…so why no more news at this point?  They’ve already started changing the signs and we’ve all braced ourselves that it’s coming…just get it over with!  I’m a little scared that the rides/prices won’t be announced until the first day you can buy them at this point!!!


I'll be surprised if we hear anything until just before it launches or possibly even the day it launches.  Not the way we'd prefer it be Disney wants to avoid negative responses so I'm guessing there will be very little advance warning about the actual first day.  

Personally I'm guessing it will be shortly after October 1st at the earliest.


NickC said:


> I'm curious as to how many people who are planning to use IA$, plan to use it more than once. I've never done RotR, so I would be willing to pay extra to experience it. But, I don't see myself paying annually to ride it. I've done FoP a number of times, and each time I've had a FP+. Unless someone else in my party MUST ride it, I wouldn't pay extra for it.


I'm already budgeting for us to ride RotR once and possibly twice, depending on the cost.  Also, if we can't get in the virtual queue for Remy I'd purchase that once.

Other than that we'll wait in standby lines.


----------



## 0FF TO NEVERLAND

Stephy811 said:


> So back on Genie+…any speculation on what the hold up is as far as announcing which attractions and/or pricing?  Surely there would have been plenty of analysis internally as far as pricing before they announced anything at all…so why no more news at this point?  They’ve already started changing the signs and we’ve all braced ourselves that it’s coming…just get it over with!  I’m a little scared that the rides/prices won’t be announced until the first day you can buy them at this point!!!



You need to pay a fee to find out that information on the app. Announcements cost money


----------



## ChanaC

NickC said:


> I'm curious as to how many people who are planning to use IA$, plan to use it more than once. I've never done RotR, so I would be willing to pay extra to experience it. But, I don't see myself paying annually to ride it. I've done FoP a number of times, and each time I've had a FP+. Unless someone else in my party MUST ride it, I wouldn't pay extra for it.



I haven't been to WDW in about six years, but I'm planning a quick two day trip in December. We are doing two park days, two parks each day. I may pay for Lightning Lane, depending on reviews/reports from people who do use it (aka the Geniepigs... good nickname!). In this case, I think it might be worth it. For such a quick trip after not going for so long it feels like I "saved" the money to do it. Also, it will just be my sibling and I, no kids or big groups, so paying an extra $30 each isn't too bad for us. Plus my goal is to hit up a lot of the newer (to me) attractions like MMRR, Frozen, the Toy Story Land stuff, etc., which I know will all have long lines. I actually went to Disneyland in 2020 before the closure and got to do Galaxy Edge. I might pay again for RotR just because I really enjoyed it, and because I'm going with my sibling who is a big Star Wars fan, but Smugglers Run was really a one and done for me. We don't plan on starting one of the days in Epcot so it looks like we'll miss the virtual queue opportunities for Remy, so we may pay extra for that one. I'm pretty sure FoP will also be a paid LL but hopefully we can rope drop it. Looking at crowd calendars it looks like our park days will be low to medium crowds (3-5 on a scale of 10 depending on the day and park) so maybe the lines wouldn't be too bad to begin with. Idk, there is still so much unknown so I guess we will just have to wait and see.


----------



## ThistleMae

NickC said:


> I'm curious as to how many people who are planning to use IA$, plan to use it more than once. I've never done RotR, so I would be willing to pay extra to experience it. But, I don't see myself paying annually to ride it. I've done FoP a number of times, and each time I've had a FP+. Unless someone else in my party MUST ride it, I wouldn't pay extra for it.


I've done both FOP and ROTR.  I love FOP but would not pay to ride it.  I'll try for EMH in the a.m.  As far as ROTR, rode it once, stuck in the line in the middle somewhere for two hours.  They brought us water and fruit.  I would not pay to ride it, nor would I try for it at EMH, but that's just me.


----------



## luv2cheer92

NickC said:


> I'm curious as to how many people who are planning to use IA$, plan to use it more than once. I've never done RotR, so I would be willing to pay extra to experience it. But, I don't see myself paying annually to ride it. I've done FoP a number of times, and each time I've had a FP+. Unless someone else in my party MUST ride it, I wouldn't pay extra for it.


I would gladly pay for RotR at least every trip right now, maybe more than once per trip depending on my length of trip. I would likely pay for FoP every trip, since I love it so much and want to ride it multiple times each AK day. Depending on timing/waits/price, there are a few other rides that I would likely pay for every trip.


----------



## fumanchu2488

It has to be after the 50th.  I still don’t understand their plan from an IT perspective.  You are telling me they have had almost 2 years to plan this and their brilliant idea was to have virtual queues, Genie+ and IA$ all needing to use MDE at 7 am?  If they tried to do that on the busiest day they have had in years they would be nuts.  Also, if it doesn’t roll out like they expect and the high crowds cause issues it would be an unmitigated disaster for them.

My bet would be they roll it out a week or two after the 50th to work through bugs before the holidays.

That being said, they have almost no self awareness for how bad their IT systems are so they will probably start it on September 30th.


----------



## ChanaC

You know, all of this is reminding me of when Magic Bands and My Disney Experience rolled out. I think it was around 2014? I was a cast member then. They started with picking a few high level execs to test out the magic band. They had them go around and get Photopass pics, or they had them set up credit cards through hotel reservations to test the purchase option. I was a PP photographer and remember being kind of amazed to see my first MB in person on someone's wrist because, it was here now! On the PP side we had to get a new piece of hardware that let us tap the MB to get the photos on the band vs the scanner we had to just scan cards. I don't remember the exact date Magic Bands began, but I think it was also a slow roll out where they started with guests at certain hotels and expanded from there. My Disney Experience and FastPass+ was also set up with multiple steps, and I remember CMs with iPads helping people book their FPs, and banks of FP+ computers for people to book them on their own when they got to the park if they couldn't do it online or on their phones themselves (since the system was still glitchy, and many people weren't aware of the new changes)

I wonder what the Genie+ rollout is like. It kind of seems like one day they will just announce it's open and that's that. FP+ and Magic Bands were a pretty big deal and affected nearly every department so it was probably a larger project, but still, has there been any word about people testing out the system? Even internally? Like I said before, the MDE rollout was slow and over a couple of stages. It wasn't an overnight change. I'm sure there is a LOT happening behind the scenes, but it really does feel like an overnight change once it starts up.


----------



## scrappinginontario

Just my thought but I'm guessing they out sourced the creation of Genie or, purchased something off the shelf and personalized it to Disney.  

Historically their IT is bumpy and what they're offering to do with this is HUGE.


----------



## CBMom01

Marionnette said:


> Right now, I cannot see myself paying for IA$ for anything that Disney has. I've done ROTR twice. I wasn't wowed either time. The most memorable part (in a bad way) was the CM who mask-shamed a young girl loudly and mercilessly in queue.
> 
> I enjoy FOP more than ROTR but have done it enough times that I don't need to ride it again.
> 
> 7DMTR, SpcMtn, TT are all been there, done that. I'm not paying extra to ride them again. If standby lines are long, I have no qualms about not riding.
> 
> My brother just did the DVC preview of Remy yesterday. His verdict is that it's cute but he wouldn't pay extra to ride it. And he said that he wouldn't wait longer than 30 minutes to ride it the first time, although the queue appears to have been set up to accommodate a large number of people. I may just be satisfied to watch a YouTube ride thru video given that the attraction is mostly video screens anyway.


When you say “mask shamed”, do you mean asked her to wear one?


----------



## CBMom01

scrappinginontario said:


> Just my thought but I'm guessing they out sourced the creation of Genie or, purchased something off the shelf and personalized it to Disney.
> 
> Historically their IT is bumpy and what they're offering to do with this is HUGE.


That’s my hesitation in a nutshell. Once they roll this out, bad IT will ruin people’s experience.


----------



## morrik5

SCDisneyfanatic said:


> You make a great point about the phones...which made me think of a question I have:  on the My Disney Experience App I have the reservations for Park Entry.  It has the entire group.  I assume I can just show that and get in or do each of the people need a separate way to show their reservation?  Obviously since 2 are young children, they won't be separate from me.  And do we do the same for Dining reservations?  Just use the App on my phone?  How about the Genie+...will that be on a phone only as well?  Dang!! I hate carrying a phone!


I do not like carrying my phone in the park either. You carry the phone, you have to carry a charger or power bank. Personally I'm trying to avoid the bag check entry line at the gate.


----------



## champagne&disney

morrik5 said:


> I do not like carrying my phone in the park either. You carry the phone, you have to carry a charger or power bank. Personally I'm trying to avoid the bag check entry line at the gate.


The new contactless security scanners are life changing! No more long lines for bag check.


----------



## Figment1990

ChanaC said:


> You know, all of this is reminding me of when Magic Bands and My Disney Experience rolled out. I think it was around 2014? I was a cast member then. They started with picking a few high level execs to test out the magic band. They had them go around and get Photopass pics, or they had them set up credit cards through hotel reservations to test the purchase option. I was a PP photographer and remember being kind of amazed to see my first MB in person on someone's wrist because, it was here now! On the PP side we had to get a new piece of hardware that let us tap the MB to get the photos on the band vs the scanner we had to just scan cards. I don't remember the exact date Magic Bands began, but I think it was also a slow roll out where they started with guests at certain hotels and expanded from there. My Disney Experience and FastPass+ was also set up with multiple steps, and I remember CMs with iPads helping people book their FPs, and banks of FP+ computers for people to book them on their own when they got to the park if they couldn't do it online or on their phones themselves (since the system was still glitchy, and many people weren't aware of the new changes)
> 
> I wonder what the Genie+ rollout is like. It kind of seems like one day they will just announce it's open and that's that. FP+ and Magic Bands were a pretty big deal and affected nearly every department so it was probably a larger project, but still, *has there been any word about people testing out the system? Even internally?* Like I said before, the MDE rollout was slow and over a couple of stages. It wasn't an overnight change. I'm sure there is a LOT happening behind the scenes, but it really does feel like an overnight change once it starts up.


This is my question too.  But I don't think they can actually test it without having masses of people test it at once.  Therefore, it will seem like they just bam, drop it on the guests one day.  
Realistically they only way to do this would be to do simulated tests but not with actual people in the park. The problem with that though is that as good as we've gotten at AI and machine learning, people are not machines and we have biases and weird decision making tendencies.  Programs still have to be programmed, and it's REALLY hard to predict human behavior.  The whole thing is very fascinating to watch develop.  In theory it's interesting.  But it's really messing with my vacation plans.  To the point that we are considering moving our trip until it settles out.  

My guess is that in the beginning, Genie will function much like wait times apps and G+ will be paid fast pass and we won't really notice the difference (except in our wallets). I don't think that there will be enough people not paying for G+ to keep the standby lines where they are now without FP.  It will be beneficial for newbies - I can't tell you how many people I know who are left less than thrilled because they didn't research before their trip.  But for regular disney planners, it's just another cost. 

Also - I saw someone post that if disney is going to post wait times that are higher than reality and then charge for individual attractions with inflated wait times, that seems a bit iffy. I don't think they will try that. Obviously I have no actual clue but maybe this would also mean we might get more accurate wait times.  Maybe.... who knows!


----------



## Marionnette

Figment1990 said:


> This is my question too.  But I don't think they can actually test it without having masses of people test it at once.  Therefore, it will seem like they just bam, drop it on the guests one day.
> Realistically they only way to do this would be to do simulated tests but not with actual people in the park. The problem with that though is that as good as we've gotten at AI and machine learning, people are not machines and we have biases and weird decision making tendencies.  Programs still have to be programmed, and it's REALLY hard to predict human behavior.  The whole thing is very fascinating to watch develop.  In theory it's interesting.  But it's really messing with my vacation plans.  To the point that we are considering moving our trip until it settles out.
> 
> My guess is that in the beginning, Genie will function much like wait times apps and G+ will be paid fast pass and we won't really notice the difference (except in our wallets). I don't think that there will be enough people not paying for G+ to keep the standby lines where they are now without FP.  It will be beneficial for newbies - I can't tell you how many people I know who are left less than thrilled because they didn't research before their trip.  But for regular disney planners, it's just another cost.
> 
> Also - I saw someone post that if disney is going to post wait times that are higher than reality and then charge for individual attractions with inflated wait times, that seems a bit iffy. I don't think they will try that. Obviously I have no actual clue but maybe this would also mean we might get more accurate wait times.  Maybe.... who knows!


The proof of inflated wait times would be when Touring Plan's Lines app (or similar line monitoring apps) begin to show consistent and markedly inflated posted standby wait times.

Harder to prove would be if Disney chose to increase standby waits via reduced ride through put or increasing the ratio of LL to standby guests beyond the previously reported 70%-80% FP+.


----------



## shawthorne44

Marionnette said:


> The proof of inflated wait times would be when Touring Plan's Lines app (or similar line monitoring apps) begin to show consistent and markedly inflated posted standby wait times.
> 
> Harder to prove would be if Disney chose to increase standby waits via reduced ride through put or increasing the ratio of LL to standby guests beyond the previously reported 70%-80% FP+.



We already know via TP that they inflate the wait times at the end of the day. We also know that they've been consistently and grossly inflating some wait times already. While I wouldn't put it past Disney to inflate wait times to help G+ and IA$$$, I don't think they could inflate them much more without it being just silly outrageous.


----------



## CBMom01

I assume Disney inflates wait times so that CMs aren't attacked when the SB wait says 30 minutes and someone freaks out because the wait was actually 32.5 minutes.


----------



## MrBellatrixLestrange

I assume they just inflate the times because it's human nature to be happy if someone delivers greater than was promised and unhappy if they fail to live up to their promises.  It seems like they've been doing it long enough that there's probably no nefarious long game they were playing.


----------



## Marionnette

CBMom01 said:


> I assume Disney inflates wait times so that CMs aren't attacked when the SB wait says 30 minutes and someone freaks out because the wait was actually 32.5 minutes.


Yeah. But we're not talking about a matter of a few minutes. The current posted wait time for PP is 40 minutes and actual wait is 29.  PotC is posted as 20 minutes, actual wait is 11. 7DMTR is posted as 50 mins, actual wait is 39. I agree that adding 10 minutes or so to expected waits in order to define posted wait times is most likely a policy of sorts. People are less likely to grumble if they pass thru the line quicker than anticipated.


----------



## mickeyluv'r

shawthorne44 said:


> We already know via TP that they inflate the wait times at the end of the day. We also know that they've been consistently and grossly inflating some wait times already. While I wouldn't put it past Disney to inflate wait times to help G+ and IA$$$, I don't think they could inflate them much more without it being just silly outrageous.



 WDW's practice of inflating wait times predates TP by a long shot, and I've never used TP.  

Much of the time I can roughly judge a line just by looking at it (and sometimes a few minutes of observing how quickly it is moving).  

In the days of the red cards, WW only checked wait times like every 15 min or so.  Sometimes one large group could throw off the time by 10 minutes.  

Pre-parade/fireworks, Buzz wait was short, but as soon as the show is over people stream into Buzz, so in the matter of 5 min the wait changes from 5 min to 25+ min.  

Back when Frozen was new, the A+E meet and greet went from zero to 3 hours in a matter of seconds at rope drop!  It was pretty crazy.


----------



## CBMom01

mickeyluv'r said:


> WDW's practice of inflating wait times predates TP by a long shot, and I've never used TP.
> 
> Much of the time I can roughly judge a line just by looking at it (and sometimes a few minutes of observing how quickly it is moving).
> 
> In the days of the red cards, WW only checked wait times like every 15 min or so.  Sometimes one large group could throw off the time by 10 minutes.
> 
> Pre-parade/fireworks, Buzz wait was short, but as soon as the show is over people stream into Buzz, so in the matter of 5 min the wait changes from 5 min to 25+ min.
> 
> Back when Frozen was new, the A+E meet and greet went from zero to 3 hours in a matter of seconds at rope drop!  It was pretty crazy.


We got a red card once. My kid was so excited, heh


----------



## disneyseniors

ThistleMae said:


> I've done both FOP and ROTR.  I love FOP but would not pay to ride it.  I'll try for EMH in the a.m.  As far as ROTR, rode it once, stuck in the line in the middle somewhere for two hours.  They brought us water and fruit.  I would not pay to ride it, nor would I try for it at EMH, but that's just me.



I agree.  We have been enough times and have ridden all the rides multiple times, except for ROTR.  I would never pay for rides I have done over and over.  Also I would not pay for ROTR.   So, if we ever go back, it is standby for us, but we are not planning another trip at this time. I think they are pretty much going for the first time guests or every 3/4 years or so who would gladly pay for these things.  Honestly, I don't understand their strategy at all, except to make more money in the short run, and alienate their fans.  Long term?  I think there are other places to see; I'm just glad we did disney before all the money grabs.


----------



## mickeyluv'r

Marionnette said:


> Yeah. But we're not talking about a matter of a few minutes. The current posted wait time for PP is 40 minutes and actual wait is 29.  PotC is posted as 20 minutes, actual wait is 11. 7DMTR is posted as 50 mins, actual wait is 39. I agree that adding 10 minutes or so to expected waits in order to define posted wait times is most likely a policy of sorts. People are less likely to grumble if they pass thru the line quicker than anticipated.



Inflated waits can be used as a deterrent. CM's probably want to go home.  They don't want to run Test Track an hour past park closing, because it isn't just the CM's at TT that have to stay late, it is a group of employees that might have to stay later. (or otherwise do extra work late in the day)

I suspect wait times are currently inflated, in part, to make the parks look more populated than they are, but that's just my hunch.


----------



## Marionnette

CBMom01 said:


> When you say “mask shamed”, do you mean asked her to wear one?


She had a mask on when we had reached the point where this CM was but apparently she had taken it off at one point in the queue (maybe more than once and perhaps after multiple reminders, I tend to not notice what others are up to thing too often). The CM was in character for the role they were playing. The reminder was not gentle and went beyond "We've been watching you and you have not been wearing your face shield properly. Put it on and keep it on." It was loud and drew the attention of everyone within earshot. I could see that the girl was nearly in tears. Maybe that's what she needed in order to take the mask requirements seriously. But I still felt bad for her and it has stuck with me.


----------



## mickeyluv'r

CBMom01 said:


> We got a red card once. My kid was so excited, heh



The funniest was a time we once saw a red card lanyard around the neck of one of the pirate skeletons that are on the beach in the PotC ride.  (The wait for PotC was so long....)  We thought it was hilarious, but I don't think anyone else in our boat got the joke at all. 

Alas, ever since, I'm always on the lookout for oddities like that. There are some. Like whenever a wall gets repainted, small details sometimes change, like hidden Mickeys that appear/disappear.  A good example is  the paint splotches that are outside near the exit of Muppets. There is splattered purple paint.  There used to be a hidden Mickey there, but it is gone.  For a time, that was it.  Then they repainted again, and a new hidden Mickey has appeared, but it isn't where it once was. It is nearby, but not in the purple paint.


----------



## mickeyluv'r

Marionnette said:


> She had a mask on when we had reached the point where this CM was but apparently she had taken it off at one point in the queue (maybe more than once and perhaps after multiple reminders, I tend to not notice what others are up to thing too often). The CM was in character for the role they were playing. The reminder was not gentle and went beyond "We've been watching you and you have not been wearing your face shield properly. Put it on and keep it on." It was loud and drew the attention of everyone within earshot. I could see that the girl was nearly in tears. Maybe that's what she needed in order to take the mask requirements seriously. But I still felt bad for her and it has stuck with me.



Ah, it was one of the First Order CM's.


----------



## WEDWDW

mickeyluv'r said:


> Ah, it was one of the First Order CM's.


That makes a huge difference to me-I don't think the CM was "out" to embarrass the Guest intentionally-the First Order CMs use that "tone" constantly.


----------



## Marionnette

WEDWDW said:


> That makes a huge difference to me-I don't think the CM was "out" to embarrass the Guest intentionally-the First Order CMs use that "tone" constantly.


I think that there are some guests for whom that tone isn't appropriate. She was one of those guests. And if I (a person who admits to basically ignoring the people around her) noticed her distress, the CM should have as well and maybe dialed it back a little. But, I've gone off-topic for this thread. I'll save any further comments for a ROTR thread.


----------



## twincruisers

Figment1990 said:


> This is my question too.  But I don't think they can actually test it without having masses of people test it at once.  Therefore, it will seem like they just bam, drop it on the guests one day.
> Realistically they only way to do this would be to do simulated tests but not with actual people in the park. The problem with that though is that as good as we've gotten at AI and machine learning, people are not machines and we have biases and weird decision making tendencies.  Programs still have to be programmed, and it's REALLY hard to predict human behavior.  The whole thing is very fascinating to watch develop.  In theory it's interesting.  But it's really messing with my vacation plans.  To the point that we are considering moving our trip until it settles out.



Standard software testing is to start with internal developers, then alpha test in the QA department. Then Alpha 2 with a few trusted individuals (few choice clients/trusted partners), then a beta with a few hundred (to a few thousand) select customers, repeat as needed. Maybe one more beta to simulate millions of connections to ensure scalability is working correctly, then finally a release version. That said, we seem to skip to Alpha to the general public (General Availibity Release) pretty quickly now to iterate quicker.  Once you can confirm you're getting good consistent data from the base software, then you can really turn on the ML/AI algorithms to do their thing.

But I do agree, waiting to let the bugs and ML/AI stuff do get up-to-snuff is a good idea vs being a genie pig.


----------



## rmclain73

I am going 10/9-10/16.  I will gladly be a genie pig.


----------



## ChanaC

I would love to hear from CMs about how the wait times are posted. I was an attractions attendant at Universal Studios and the employees working in the lines were responsible for updating the wait time sign at the front of the attraction. I was there right as they were rolling out their app with the wait times, and even when I was there I wasn't sure how the info was getting to the app. I don't think us changing the wait time sign triggered the app to change, it didn't seem like that complex of a system. I think periodically someone in one of the offices would call the managers at our attraction, who would radio the front of the line, who would then report back the time. I know we didn't inflate or deflate the wait times, just tried to give the most accurate times, and when you work at the attraction long enough you can do a pretty good estimate by just looking at how long the queue is. I imagine it's a lot harder when you are a CM outside a totally indoor queue, because they probably don't really know what's happening inside.

All this to say that is might not be "Big Bad Disney" making up the wait times, at least the sign at the attraction, just some CM trying their best.


----------



## BK2014

Marionnette said:


> Yeah. But we're not talking about a matter of a few minutes. The current posted wait time for PP is 40 minutes and actual wait is 29.  PotC is posted as 20 minutes, actual wait is 11. 7DMTR is posted as 50 mins, actual wait is 39. I agree that adding 10 minutes or so to expected waits in order to define posted wait times is most likely a policy of sorts. People are less likely to grumble if they pass thru the line quicker than anticipated.



I  don't disagree that wait times are inflated, but I would imagine that keeping them inflated by only a certain amount of time, say 10 minutes, would be hard to do.  Crowd flow can't be an exact science and it would seem to be nearly impossible to predict all of the ebbs and flows.  

Though I am not ruling out the possible that times are inflated even more for more sinister reasons . . .


----------



## JCornell

We typically go 1-2 times per year and nothing is a must do so we'll probably just try out the free features mostly and maybe make an exception on a particularly busy day


ChanaC said:


> I would love to hear from CMs about how the wait times are posted. I was an attractions attendant at Universal Studios and the employees working in the lines were responsible for updating the wait time sign at the front of the attraction. I was there right as they were rolling out their app with the wait times, and even when I was there I wasn't sure how the info was getting to the app. I don't think us changing the wait time sign triggered the app to change, it didn't seem like that complex of a system. I think periodically someone in one of the offices would call the managers at our attraction, who would radio the front of the line, who would then report back the time. I know we didn't inflate or deflate the wait times, just tried to give the most accurate times, and when you work at the attraction long enough you can do a pretty good estimate by just looking at how long the queue is. I imagine it's a lot harder when you are a CM outside a totally indoor queue, because they probably don't really know what's happening inside.
> 
> All this to say that is might not be "Big Bad Disney" making up the wait times, at least the sign at the attraction, just some CM trying their best.


Periodically they would give someone a lanyard with a tag to carry through the line.  They'd scan the tag, give it to someone, and then scan it again near the front of the line.  That's how the wait times would update.  I personally haven't carried the tag in a couple years but I just assumed that still happened.  Of course, by the time you get to the front, it could still be very different at the end of the line.  Lots of people could have showed up or none at all.  The algorithms also assumed a mix of standby and FP times so I'm sure things have been a bit wacky with almost all stand by now.


----------



## luv2cheer92

JCornell said:


> We typically go 1-2 times per year and nothing is a must do so we'll probably just try out the free features mostly and maybe make an exception on a particularly busy day
> 
> Periodically they would give someone a lanyard with a tag to carry through the line.  They'd scan the tag, give it to someone, and then scan it again near the front of the line.  That's how the wait times would update.  I personally haven't carried the tag in a couple years but I just assumed that still happened.  Of course, by the time you get to the front, it could still be very different at the end of the line.  Lots of people could have showed up or none at all.  The algorithms also assumed a mix of standby and FP times so I'm sure things have been a bit wacky with almost all stand by now.


They stopped doing those lanyards in 2017, brought them back very briefly in 2019 and then stopped again.


----------



## jodybird511

luv2cheer92 said:


> They stopped doing those lanyards in 2017, brought them back very briefly in 2019 and then stopped again.


We were actually handed one when we were at Disneyland at the end of June.  Hadn't seen one for a long time prior to that.


----------



## ShayBells

Can I just say… out of everything that makes me mad not knowing an official start date for genie+ has to be on top of the list right now.


----------



## js

ShayBells said:


> Can I just say… out of everything that makes me mad not knowing an official start date for genie+ has to be on top of the list right now.



I agree. I don't understand why they haven't given us any more information regarding a hard start date, pricing of attractions, etc. But I am not surprised.


----------



## LiamsDISMom

ShayBells said:


> Can I just say… out of everything that makes me mad not knowing an official start date for genie+ has to be on top of the list right now.



Me too. At this point it is the one thing that is making me think I'm canceling. I'm close to my 30 days out and I don't want to go with crazy long lines and no Genie. On the other hand, I've got great ADRs and a fun trip planned, and I'm afraid as soon as I cancel they will announce a start date and it will be before my trip date.


----------



## scrappinginontario

LiamsDISMom said:


> Me too. At this point it is the one thing that is making me think I'm canceling. I'm close to my 30 days out and I don't want to go with crazy long lines and no Genie. On the other hand, I've got great ADRs and a fun trip planned, and I'm afraid as soon as I cancel they will announce a start date and it will be before my trip date.


This is only my thoughts with zero to support it but if your trip is in 30 days I'd be shocked if Genie is not up and running by then, or at least through your trip.

In my head they want to drop after October 1st but before the bigger November/December crowds arrive.


----------



## LiamsDISMom

scrappinginontario said:


> This is only my thoughts with zero to support it but if your trip is in 30 days I'd be shocked if Genie is not up and running by then, or at least through your trip.
> 
> In my head they want to drop after October 1st but before the bigger November/December crowds arrive.


 Also what I was hoping and thinking in my head too, BUT the closer we get and now word has me starting to doubt it. We will be there Halloween week/weekend.


----------



## scrappinginontario

LiamsDISMom said:


> Also what I was hoping and thinking in my head too, BUT the closer we get and now word has me starting to doubt it. We will be there Halloween week/weekend.


I'm of the group that feels we will get little/no warning before it drops, but that's must my thoughts.


----------



## rmclain73

scrappinginontario said:


> I'm of the group that feels we will get little/no warning before it drops, but that's must my thoughts.




Disney has said in their online verbiage that they will make an announcement closer to launch.


----------



## Turksmom

rmclain73 said:


> Disney has said in their online verbiage that they will make an announcement closer to launch.


That they'll announce closer to launch doesn't give an indication of how much time there will be between announcement and start. It could be a 5pm announcement stating that you can purchase G+ at midnight


----------



## rmclain73

Turksmom said:


> That they'll announce closer to launch doesn't give an indication of how much time there will be between announcement and start. It could be a 5pm announcement stating that you can purchase G+ at midnight



That is fine.  At least give us something.


----------



## thptrek

Hoping it drops before Oct 18th. Really would like for it to be up and running before we get there so we can read reviews and get an idea of how best to use it. We expect to use the IAS and Genie+ during our trip.


----------



## scrappinginontario

I feel badly with those booked in the near future as there are decisions that will need to be made but so little information available.


----------



## serenitygr

scrappinginontario said:


> I feel badly with those booked in the near future as there are decisions that will need to be made but so little information available.


We’re heading that way right now from Minnesota- checking in Sunday and staying three weeks. I figure we’ll just wing it!


----------



## OhDannyBoy

My offer of free churros for reports of how it works still stands.


----------



## champagne&disney

OhDannyBoy said:


> My offer of free churros for reports of how it works still stands.


I'll help even without a churro, but man does that sweeten the deal.


----------



## OhDannyBoy

champagne&disney said:


> I'll help even without a churro, but man does that sweeten the deal.


Free churro subject to availability ,black out dates, and if I have enoguh money....


----------



## champagne&disney

OhDannyBoy said:


> Free churro subject to availability ,black out dates, and if I have enoguh money....


Honestly really only want it if it's a churro from DLR because the WDW ones are terrible in comparison.


----------



## Pats Dragon

Do we know when Disney Genie begins?


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

Nope, we do not.


----------



## pigletgirl

champagne&disney said:


> Honestly really only want it if it's a churro from DLR because the WDW ones are terrible in comparison.


As are corn dogs


----------



## fumanchu2488

I am thinking now they may roll it out separately.  I can see the IA$ starting first since it seems to be the most straight forward.  Then Genie and Genie+ at a later date.  Unless everything is run through the same MDE update and interface.  But it seems IA$ would be a simple addition to make and not significantly affect anything.


----------



## shawthorne44

IA$$$ runs within Genie.  

But, didn't they say IA$$$ would come out before G+?


----------



## Grumpy by Birth

I like how the acronym IA$ keeps expanding the number of dollar signs!   

I envision this guy being the spokes-snake for IA$$$$$$$$$


----------



## scrappinginontario

shawthorne44 said:


> IA$$$ runs within Genie.
> 
> But, didn't they say IA$$$ would come out before G+?


I've never heard this.  I always thought both would begin the same day.


----------



## luv2cheer92

shawthorne44 said:


> IA$$$ runs within Genie.
> 
> But, didn't they say IA$$$ would come out before G+?


It was mentioned as a possibility.


----------



## shawthorne44

Grumpy by Birth said:


> I like how the acronym IA$ keeps expanding the number of dollar signs!
> 
> I envision this guy being the spokes-snake for IA$$$$$$$$$
> 
> View attachment 607142 View attachment 607183




The three $ is my personal protest.    I don't care if it is $5.    If they price it at $5, it will be way too much.  I think the $$$ really highlights how expensive it will be.


----------



## ZeeWP

I think as far as wait times and IA$ prices go, I think they will have specific Yield Management data science. Probably similar to surge pricing by companies like UBER, but with Disney's own spin on it.

The wait time may not line up with IA$ Pricing because one is based on current (or a few hours lol) crowd level. AND it will most likely be an inflated time for the park purposes. IA$ will be some mathematical output based on the info they have. They may change their pricing for the ride day off, but it will be a pre-determined threshold.

Those numbers won't line up exactly, ESPECIALLY during the first few weeks. But even after it stabilizes, we may see a 30-minute wait, it be actual 20 minutes, but IA$ has not adjusted yet and still be an extreme price because their research is saying it will go up to 2-hour wait in 15 minutes. 

If that was confusing, imagine how people will feel on day of. LOL


----------



## JakeAZ

IMO it's becoming painfully obvious this whole Genie announcement was rushed and they are having trouble actually implementing it.

This company really is run by executives who are completely detached from the day to day running of the parks / guest experience.  

Announcing a major overhaul to the ride system and then going radio silent (aside from adding signs on the rides) just shows how much they value giving guests the correct info needed to plan properly.

At this point, it could launch tomorrow or next year.  Both scenarios are equally likely.


----------



## Alexis56578

I really thought we'd see a date announcement by now considering the anniversary is four days away. I'm not even going to be there in October and hope for the sake of those who are they don't just yolo drop it on the first.


----------



## JCornell

JakeAZ said:


> IMO it's becoming painfully obvious this whole Genie announcement was rushed and they are having trouble actually implementing it.
> 
> This company really is run by executives who are completely detached from the day to day running of the parks / guest experience.
> 
> Announcing a major overhaul to the ride system and then going radio silent (aside from adding signs on the rides) just shows how much they value giving guests the correct info needed to plan properly.
> 
> At this point, it could launch tomorrow or next year.  Both scenarios are equally likely.


Not defending it at all especially with Disney's deep pockets but I live in software, working with Silicon Valley startups etc., and they never hit a release date, stuff is buggy, and we're expected to be the product test even though we pay millions for what they deliver, all while their C-suite promises us newer and bigger capabilities.  Guess I've been well-prepared and I'm now fairly immune to the whole MDE cycle.

Reminds me of a favorite computer joke of mine.  At a software conference a speaker asks the audience to stand up if they wouldn't be afraid to get on a plane where their company wrote the software.  In the entire auditorium only one person stands up.  The speaker says, "Congratulations, can you tell us why you wouldn't be afraid to get on a plane your company worked on?"  The audience member says, "Sure, because that plane is never getting off the ground."


----------



## Tri-Delta4Life

JCornell said:


> Not defending it at all especially with Disney's deep pockets but I live in software, working with Silicon Valley startups etc., and they never hit a release date, stuff is buggy, and we're expected to be the product test even though we pay millions for what they deliver, all while their C-suite promises us newer and bigger capabilities.  Guess I've been well-prepared and I'm now fairly immune to the whole MDE cycle.
> 
> Reminds me of a favorite computer joke of mine.  At a software conference a speaker asks the audience to stand up if they wouldn't be afraid to get on a plane where their company wrote the software.  In the entire auditorium only one person stands up.  The speaker says, "Congratulations, can you tell us why you wouldn't be afraid to get on a plane your company worked on?"  The audience member says, "Sure, because that plane is never getting off the ground."



LOL - I do software for airplanes


----------



## SMF_mom23

Alexis56578 said:


> I really thought we'd see a date announcement by now considering the anniversary is four days away. I'm not even going to be there in October and hope for the sake of those who are they don't just yolo drop it on the first.



I feel like this is gonna be more of a yeet than an yolo drop, but maybe I'm not giving TWDC enough credit?


----------



## rmclain73

JakeAZ said:


> IMO it's becoming painfully obvious this whole Genie announcement was rushed and they are having trouble actually implementing it.
> 
> This company really is run by executives who are completely detached from the day to day running of the parks / guest experience.
> 
> Announcing a major overhaul to the ride system and then going radio silent (aside from adding signs on the rides) just shows how much they value giving guests the correct info needed to plan properly.
> 
> At this point, it could launch tomorrow or next year.  Both scenarios are equally likely.



Just got some information from a reliable source that the earliest we will see Genie launch is the week of Oct 16.


----------



## elgerber

rmclain73 said:


> Just got some information from a reliable source that the earliest we will see Genie launch is the week of Oct 16.


Ugh. We arrive 10/17


----------



## lorileahb

elgerber said:


> Ugh. We arrive 10/17


Double ugh - we arrive 10/16


----------



## eva

elgerber said:


> Ugh. We arrive 10/17


Us too. sounds like it could be a mess.


----------



## snowwhite84

Arriving 10/14


----------



## SMF_mom23

HT to all y'all arriving around the drop and becoming unwitting guinea pigs!  The rest of us will be waiting to hear about the Good, Bad, and Ugly!  (Hopefully mostly good though!)


----------



## Kbrb

SMF_mom23 said:


> HT to all y'all arriving around the drop and becoming unwitting guinea pigs!  The rest of us will be waiting to hear about the Good, Bad, and Ugly!  (Hopefully mostly good though!)



I have  trade marked the term "geniepigs" for you guys. Good luck


----------



## bsmcneil

menotyou21 said:


> I get both sides of the "like" and "don't like" regarding Genie+....but with me being responsible for the entire family for the entire trip; I like having the ability to put my phone in my pocket for the majority of the day.  I saw this picture on a site today....the photo was simply for showing the crowd at Space 220.  I've "blurred out" with red circles(ish) the *9 *faces I saw.....in just a small piece of the pic....looking at their phones. I recognize ADRs/table ready notices have been on phones prior; I just felt this pic captured my feelings towards having another need to always be on my phone.  I def don't miss running around the park to get paper FP; and understand I can choose to not use the service....
> View attachment 606201


I went last week and it was SURREAL how many people were locked into their phones. I intentionally tried to leave mine in my backpack and not constantly be looking at it. I had to use it more than I liked but many people were just all-in. One of my favorite memories is the conversations I'd have in line with my family and/or others (tbf, I went solo this trip - so that would've been even harder).


----------



## bsmcneil

Marionnette said:


> Right now, I cannot see myself paying for IA$ for anything that Disney has. I've done ROTR twice. I wasn't wowed either time. The most memorable part (in a bad way) was the CM who mask-shamed a young girl loudly and mercilessly in queue.
> 
> I enjoy FOP more than ROTR but have done it enough times that I don't need to ride it again.
> 
> 7DMTR, SpcMtn, TT are all been there, done that. I'm not paying extra to ride them again. If standby lines are long, I have no qualms about not riding.
> 
> My brother just did the DVC preview of Remy yesterday. His verdict is that it's cute but he wouldn't pay extra to ride it. And he said that he wouldn't wait longer than 30 minutes to ride it the first time, although the queue appears to have been set up to accommodate a large number of people. I may just be satisfied to watch a YouTube ride thru video given that the attraction is mostly video screens anyway.


Was part of this the "in-character" stuff? Because I was/am SUPER unfamiliar with Star Wars and was agitated by the sudden rudeness of CMs (as were the family in front of me at ROTR). Eventually someone explained but I was ... astonished. And hate, hate, hate it. Perhaps if I had known to expect it (like 50s PTC) but wow. Unexpected and amidst super high heat, etc. My internal monologue was ranting and raving, lol.


----------



## bsmcneil

champagne&disney said:


> The new contactless security scanners are life changing! No more long lines for bag check.


While true, at MK, my battery pack set off the scanners and I had to get mine checked. It was especially weird as the same charger had been in my bag all week and never set off the scanners at EP, DHS, or DAK.


----------



## Turksmom

bsmcneil said:


> Was part of this the "in-character" stuff? Because I was/am SUPER unfamiliar with Star Wars and was agitated by the sudden rudeness of CMs (as were the family in front of me at ROTR). Eventually someone explained but I was ... astonished. And hate, hate, hate it. Perhaps if I had known to expect it (like 50s PTC) but wow. Unexpected and amidst super high heat, etc. My internal monologue was ranting and raving, lol.


I'm not a SW fan, but live with some, so I was sort of aware of the characters, but the one CM targeted me and just pushed way too far. I don't mind sarcastic humor and teasing. I'll play along and it takes a lot to offend me, but I was not amused.


----------



## emilymad

Turksmom said:


> I'm not a SW fan, but live with some, so I was sort of aware of the characters, but the one CM targeted me and just pushed way too far. I don't mind sarcastic humor and teasing. I'll play along and it takes a lot to offend me, but I was not amused.



Same thing happened to DH who is not a SW fan.  He understood the character but was really annoyed that the CM was not "reading the room" for who was into the antics and who wasn't.  If it weren't for children being in the area I really think DH would have been really rude to the CM instead of just ignoring him.  It was our first time on the ride and I knew what to expect but not that this particular CM would be so intense.  It was frankly uncalled for.  I think DH has one more ride in him before being turned off completely.


----------



## serenitygr

rmclain73 said:


> Just got some information from a reliable source that the earliest we will see Genie launch is the week of Oct 16.


We check out the 17th so I guess that will save us some money and confusion!


----------



## fumanchu2488

Am I the only sucker that is kind of excited for this?  Not sure I want to be the test subject (my trip is October 16th - 22nd) but am kind of looking forward to the concept of Genie+.  Also, gets rid of stress to try and get on Remy which is probably the only attraction we will pay for the IAS.


----------



## bsmcneil

For what it's worth (and that's not much), I was standing in the single rider line at RnRC last Thursday (9/23) and the CM just placed me in line 12 or 13 - somewhere near the back. As that happened, two CMs came - one was training and was set to relieve the original one and he (original one) said, "Oh yeah, I know [CM name] - she taught me Genie+" That then led to a brief conversation about how the training for G+ was still set to go on for a couple of weeks, particularly as so many CMs were getting used to things. So, that led me to believe it wouldn't be the first week of Oct (and at the same time, I realize 3 CMs at RnRC aren't the most official sources for info, lol).


----------



## CBMom01

fumanchu2488 said:


> Am I the only sucker that is kind of excited for this?  Not sure I want to be the test subject (my trip is October 16th - 22nd) but am kind of looking forward to the concept of Genie+.  Also, gets rid of stress to try and get on Remy which is probably the only attraction we will pay for the IAS.


I’m cautiously optimistic. I think I’d be excited if I had any faith that the technology will work as designed


----------



## jthornton94

fumanchu2488 said:


> Am I the only sucker that is kind of excited for this?  Not sure I want to be the test subject (my trip is October 16th - 22nd) but am kind of looking forward to the concept of Genie+.  Also, gets rid of stress to try and get on Remy which is probably the only attraction we will pay for the IAS.


I am almost sad we will be missing it.  Check out on the 11th.  I was hoping for at least some fast pass type options as I know it will be crowded the weekend we are there and was willing to pay for Remy.


----------



## shawthorne44

bsmcneil said:


> So, that led me to believe it wouldn't be the first week of Oct (and at the same time, I realize 3 CMs at RnRC aren't the most official sources for info, lol).



I find that very convincing. Not bet real money on it, but convincing. 

Years ago my dad carpooled with the neighbor who worked at the same company but super-duper high up. Giant company and he was one level down from the grand-poo-bah. Dad was just a grunt programmer. Dad would hear company rumors and ask the neighbor if they were true. After a great many times of neighbor sincerely saying they weren't true, then to be proved wrong, the neighbor had to admit that the gossip mill was more informed than he was. There would be a secretary that did the paperwork for whatever it was and then told one friend ...


----------



## rmclain73

It is also being reported on another blog today that the release will be the 3rd wee of Oct at the earliest.  Looks like they are running into issues.


----------



## DIS Lifer

We will be there mid october. Hoping for a roll out before or during my trip. I would love to be a guinea pig and test it out.


----------



## elgerber

fumanchu2488 said:


> Am I the only sucker that is kind of excited for this?  Not sure I want to be the test subject (my trip is October 16th - 22nd) but am kind of looking forward to the concept of Genie+.  Also, gets rid of stress to try and get on Remy which is probably the only attraction we will pay for the IAS.


I was hoping it would be in effect for our trip, but I didn't want it to start the day before we got there. Being a "genie-pig" is a bit concerning with Disney IT


----------



## Violetspider

I'm indifferent about it at this point. I arrive 10/25 for 12 days. If it's going to drop, I definitely want it to drop before I arrive. Would really like to know if G+ is truly one reservation at a time or not. As I've stated before, that's make it or break it for me. In other words, I'd welcome it for my trip if stacking where allowed. Definitely wouldn't want it if that isn't how G+ will work.


----------



## cbianco96

Violetspider said:


> I'm indifferent about it at this point. I arrive 10/25 for 12 days. If it's going to drop, I definitely want it to drop before I arrive. Would really like to know if G+ is truly one reservation at a time or not. As I've stated before, that's make it or break it for me. In other words, I'd welcome it for my trip if stacking where allowed. Definitely wouldn't want it if that isn't how G+ will work.



You definitely won’t be able to stack. The announcement from Disney says Genie+ allows you to “make one selection at a time, throughout the day.”


----------



## ShayBells

cbianco96 said:


> You definitely won’t be able to stack. The announcement from Disney says Genie+ allows you to “make one selection at a time, throughout the day.”



I wouldn't say "definitely won't be able to stack." That statement that you quoted could be taken in different ways. You can't make more than one selection at a time, but if you say open the app an hour later that is a "different time" so you aren't making two selections at one time, but have two selections made in the app.  It's up for interpretation. We are all hoping it's not "make one selection and have to use that selection before making another. "


----------



## gharter

rmclain73 said:


> It is also being reported on another blog today that the release will be the 3rd wee of Oct at the earliest.  Looks like they are running into issues.


Really hoping it rolls out after we leave.  If it rolls out the 3rd week, we will be in the middle of it.  While it could work well, given their track record, I foresee lots of problems with rollout.  And worry what other things in MDE (mobile order) could get messed up with this as well.


----------



## gharter

ShayBells said:


> I wouldn't say "definitely won't be able to stack." That statement that you quoted could be taken in different ways. You can't make more than one selection at a time, but if you say open the app an hour later that is a "different time" so you aren't making two selections at one time, but have two selections made in the app.  It's up for interpretation. We are all hoping it's not "make one selection and have to use that selection before making another. "


I expect that part to work like FP+ did after you used your 1st 3.  You could only hold 1 active pass at a time.  As soon as you tapped in, you could get another one.  I don't expect to be able to hold 2 unused passes at one time.


----------



## MrBellatrixLestrange

OhDannyBoy said:


> My offer of free churros for reports of how it works still stands.


I might be enticed if the offer were a few meximelts, miss those things.


----------



## ShayBells

gharter said:


> I expect that part to work like FP+ did after you used your 1st 3.  You could only hold 1 active pass at a time.  As soon as you tapped in, you could get another one.  I don't expect to be able to hold 2 unused passes at one time.



That is definitely what it seems like, but from what people said about max pass they gave you the option after a certain time period to get another, so I am hoping that is how it will work, but it probably will be the way you state. I just want to hold on to hope


----------



## scrappinginontario

This is from the official announcement, 



I interpret that as you will only be able to hold one selection at a time.  My guess is that, similar to FP+, once you have tapped into that attraction, you are free to select the next one.

The one exception to this that I can see happening is if the 'next available time' for an attraction is hours out, after a set amount of time I'm guessing I can secure another G+ reservation that occurs between the two.

e.g. If at 10AM the next G+ for RotR is at 6PM, if I select that one I can see being allowed to select another one at 12PM.  But again, this is purely a guess on my part based on how FP+ worked and we really don't know how similar/different they will be.


----------



## Bibbobboo2u

Kbrb said:


> I have  trade marked the term "geniepigs" for you guys. Good luck


I love that and need a t-shirt for our 10/17 arrival!!!


----------



## Bibbobboo2u

Does anyone know who reported the latest rumored Genie+ rollout date?


----------



## rmclain73

Violetspider said:


> I'm indifferent about it at this point. I arrive 10/25 for 12 days. If it's going to drop, I definitely want it to drop before I arrive. Would really like to know if G+ is truly one reservation at a time or not. As I've stated before, that's make it or break it for me. In other words, I'd welcome it for my trip if stacking where allowed. Definitely wouldn't want it if that isn't how G+ will work.



Several CMs who have gone through training have stated that you CAN in fact stack.  It will work the same as paper fast pass.  You will be able to select another LL after 2 hours if your first selection time still has not come up.


----------



## ShayBells

Technically, I could make ONE selection at 10am, make ONE selection at 10:15am, make ONE selection at 10:30am ,etc. etc. and I am still "making one selection at a time, throughout the day." 

Now if Disney wording said "hold one selection at a time, throughout the day" or "HAVE one selection at a time, throughout the day" I would take it the way everyone else is taking it, but the "make" is giving me pause. 

I guess I am just interpreting it differently than anyone else.  But like I said ... it's me holding out hope for the best possible outcome ( and just FYI my theory in this comment is exaggerated just to show how wording can be taken. I know this is NOT how it is going to be.)


----------



## rmclain73

Bibbobboo2u said:


> Does anyone know who reported the latest rumored Genie+ rollout date?



Being reported today on a reliable news site.


----------



## ShayBells

rmclain73 said:


> Several CMs who have gone through training have stated that you CAN in fact stack.  It will work the same as paper fast pass.  You will be able to select another LL after 2 hours if your first selection time still has not come up.



This I think would be great and really all I would want to make genie+ work as long as I don't have to wait until the afternoon and come through my day paying 15$ for one or two rides.


----------



## mrsdaly

I arrive 10/30... I remember being there when they started FP+, a few weeks in. And honestly I didn't mind being the guinea pig because it seemed to be the case that only a handful of people knew about it, so it worked pretty decent. If this is the same case (where it's not widely known in the early stages) then maybe I wouldn't mind being the guinea pig.


----------



## Bibbobboo2u

rmclain73 said:


> Being reported today on a reliable news site.


found it


----------



## samandryanmom

I love new things!! I don't love brand new IT things that happen right before my 50th birthday celebration trip! We arrive on 10-19 and I really want it to start after we leave.


----------



## gharter

scrappinginontario said:


> The one exception to this that I can see happening is if the 'next available time' for an attraction is hours out, after a set amount of time I'm guessing I can secure another G+ reservation that occurs between the two.


I haven't read that anywhere, but would be nice if correct.  similar to how Max pass worked.


----------



## Violetspider

rmclain73 said:


> Several CMs who have gone through training have stated that you CAN in fact stack.  It will work the same as paper fast pass.  You will be able to select another LL after 2 hours if your first selection time still has not come up.


That's encouraging to hear. I would be willing to purchase G+ at MK and HS if that is the case. If not, I've been to WDW enough times to have ridden all of the G+ (non IA$) rides enough where it wouldn't be worth the cost. I doubt I'm alone where this is concerned. Now if there was no IA$, then things might be different. Getting on the tier 1 rides using LL would be worth a $15 upcharge IMO and any tier 2 rides would be icing on the cake.


----------



## elgerber

Kenny the Pirate has posted a new list of IA$ attractions.


----------



## shawthorne44

Well, shoot.   Frozen on the IA$$$ list.    
That upsets me.


----------



## JakeAZ

elgerber said:


> Kenny the Pirate has posted a new list of IA$ attractions.


If those are accurate, AK and EP are ridiculous.  Genie+ is a total waste on those days when they just took 4 of the most popular rides and made them al a carte.

I'm going to pay $15pp per day at EP and AK for what?  2-3 rides at each park?! 

At least with MK and HS, there are other top tier rides available within G+


----------



## Violetspider

elgerber said:


> Kenny the Pirate has posted a new list of IA$ attractions.


I never understood KS and TT being IA$ rather than EE and FEA, so this doesn't surprise me at all. I just hope the single rider line at EE remains an option.


----------



## aviva5675

elgerber said:


> Kenny the Pirate has posted a new list of IA$ attractions.



Can you post a link? Checked his website and didnt see anything more recent than Aug.


----------



## dchronister

if I start my day in AK but I want to do LL choice of Rat in Epcot, if I have a park hopper can I choose to do this later in the day or does my first (or both) LL choices have to be in the park I have a reservation for the day? I’m trying to make dining reservations but am confused on this point, just want to make sure I will be in the right park at the right time so I can make the correct dining reservations! TIA


----------



## elgerber

aviva5675 said:


> Can you post a link? Checked his website and didnt see anything more recent than Aug.


Let’s see if this works.
https://www.kennythepirate.com/2021...ane-with-attractions-and-possible-start-date/


----------



## aviva5675

thanks!


----------



## scrappinginontario

JakeAZ said:


> If those are accurate, AK and EP are ridiculous.  Genie+ is a total waste on those days when they just took 4 of the most popular rides and made them al a carte.
> 
> I'm going to pay $15pp per day at EP and AK for what?  2-3 rides at each park?!
> 
> At least with MK and HS, there are other top tier rides available within G+


I agree.  I can't see myself paying for G+ at Epcot or AK.  Possibly MK and DHS.  Time will tell.


----------



## scrappinginontario

dchronister said:


> if I start my day in AK but I want to do LL choice of Rat in Epcot, if I have a park hopper can I choose to do this later in the day or does my first (or both) LL choices have to be in the park I have a reservation for the day? I’m trying to make dining reservations but am confused on this point, just want to make sure I will be in the right park at the right time so I can make the correct dining reservations! TIA


Your question has been merges with the Disney Genie Announcement.  

There are still many details to be announced including the answer to your question.


----------



## MainMom

Honestly the only one that kind of “hurts” my party is EE/FOP. We won’t pay for it though. We will just rope drop and hope for the best.


----------



## scrappinginontario

MainMom said:


> Honestly the only one that kind of “hurts” my party is EE/FOP. We won’t pay for it though. We will just rope drop and hope for the best.


Same although we are used to rope dropping FoP and in the past we were able to ride EE multiple times in the evening with little/no wait and that's with free FPs.  I can't see having to pay for LL making the wait worse.


----------



## SMF_mom23

bsmcneil said:


> While true, at MK, my battery pack set off the scanners and I had to get mine checked. It was especially weird as the same charger had been in my bag all week and never set off the scanners at EP, DHS, or DAK.


We had the same experience.  At least 3 of the 6 of us.  Every. Time.


----------



## ZeeWP

I can see those of us with younger kids who are tall enough for things like EE, they might be able to use G+. I can see us using it for Killamanjaro Safari, Navi River Journey, and Kali River Rapids. 

I can't see use for it in Epcot either... Maybe when the Guardian of the Galaxy ride opens. But even then I can't see it.


----------



## Grasshopper2016

Moving EE to IA$ is downright infuriating.  I would have gladly paid $15 per person for a chance to ride EE multiple times a day with little wait.  Safari, on the other hand,  is a ride you only want to do once.  Which made it a perfect IA$ ride.  If this is true, it makes Genie+ much less valuable in AK.


----------



## rmclain73

Grasshopper2016 said:


> Moving EE to IA$ is downright infuriating.  I would have gladly paid $15 per person for a chance to ride EE multiple times a day with little wait.  Safari, on the other hand,  is a ride you only want to do once.  Which made it a perfect IA$ ride.  If this is true, it makes Genie+ much less valuable in AK.




Remember that the IA$ list today is just a rumor.  Not everything posted today was accurate.  Wait for the official announcement.


----------



## gharter

Wasn't surprised to see the list that Kenny the pirate had.  I suspect Frozen will be removed when Guardians opens.
I can't see paying for Genie + at AK or EPCOT. 
MK probably will be worth it.
Maybe HS.  Unfortunately HS may be the one park I spend money on the IA$.


----------



## luv2cheer92

Grasshopper2016 said:


> Moving EE to IA$ is downright infuriating.  I would have gladly paid $15 per person for a chance to ride EE multiple times a day with little wait.  Safari, on the other hand,  is a ride you only want to do once.  Which made it a perfect IA$ ride.  If this is true, it makes Genie+ much less valuable in AK.





rmclain73 said:


> Remember that the IA$ list today is just a rumor.  Not everything posted today was accurate.  Wait for the official announcement.


Yep, just like the initial list was just a rumor. It's not like they just went and changed what was planned, just rumors.

But only wanting to do the safari once? Woah, that's definitely not the case for me. It's the most re-ridable ride, in that it's really the only ride that can be a completely different experience every single time.


----------



## katyjeka

I hated fast pass(too much running across the park) and thought maybe Genie would be a good option for us. We've decided to do it the old fashioned way and see what we can. We take long trips and with several days in each park I just don't see the need. Plus the cost each day times 12 days and 6 people is more than we are willing to spend. Another thousand will buy a few nice meals. Good thing we don't mind waiting in line actually we expect it when going to an amusement park.


----------



## emilymad

I would be happy if the rumors of no IA$ for KS.  We can re-ride that one a lot but I wasn't going to pay to ride.

I feel like Genie+ really highlights how few experiences there are in certain parks.  I very much doubt we will ever pay for it in AK or EP.  Even HS is iffy for us but maybe because we love to re-ride TS.


----------



## DreadoesDsny84

ShayBells said:


> I wouldn't say "definitely won't be able to stack." That statement that you quoted could be taken in different ways. You can't make more than one selection at a time, but if you say open the app an hour later that is a "different time" so you aren't making two selections at one time, but have two selections made in the app.  It's up for interpretation. We are all hoping it's not "make one selection and have to use that selection before making another. "


So thats exactly how max pass worked, you would make a fast pass anf while you were in line for that one you could then schedule another one but you couldn't ever jave more than one at a time.


----------



## luv2cheer92

DreadoesDsny84 said:


> So thats exactly how max pass worked, you would make a fast pass anf while you were in line for that one you could then schedule another one but you couldn't ever jave more than one at a time.


You could definitely have more than one FP at a time with Maxpass (and legacy FP).
Example:
Enter park at 9, immediately pull a FP for RSR that is for 5pm.
At 10:30 (90 minutes later), you could then pull another FP, say for Mission Breakout for 3pm.
Then at 12 (90 minutes later), you could get one for Incredicoaster for 1pm. So you would have 3 FPs at one time before ever using that first one.
This is what people are wanting/thinking, except the rumor is 2 hours instead of 90 min.


----------



## rmclain73

luv2cheer92 said:


> You could definitely have more than one FP at a time with Maxpass (and legacy FP).
> Example:
> Enter park at 9, immediately pull a FP for RSR that is for 5pm.
> At 10:30 (90 minutes later), you could then pull another FP, say for Mission Breakout for 3pm.
> Then at 12 (90 minutes later), you could get one for Incredicoaster for 1pm. So you would have 3 FPs at one time before ever using that first one.
> This is what people are wanting/thinking, except the rumor is 2 hours instead of 90 min.




Would MaxPass let you choose those times further out?  In the case with Genie you only get what is next available.  It may not always work out where the next available is that far off in the day.


----------



## shawthorne44

rmclain73 said:


> Would MaxPass let you choose those times further out?  In the case with Genie you only get what is next available.  It may not always work out where the next available is that far off in the day.



Both can be true. Some rides would book up quickly. Probably not getting a 6pm time at 9 am, but maybe 1pm. So, if you wanted to stack, you'd watch the most popular ride until the offer hit the earliest time you'd like. Also, MaxPass included the Tier 1 rides that will now be IA$$$. So, those were the ones that gave out all reservations by early afternoon. Because of that, the ones still on G+ might not 'sell out', so the cooling time period might be less important. In which case, our plan will be to get a G+ reservation, then do standby in a IA$$$ ride (repeat). 

With FPP tiers, there was one or two Tier 2 rides that everyone wanted.   I expect the same thing will happen with G+.


----------



## Violetspider

rmclain73 said:


> Would MaxPass let you choose those times further out?  In the case with Genie you only get what is next available.  It may not always work out where the next available is that far off in the day.


Maxpass only offered you the next available time. You could hold off and choose a time that you liked better later in the day. The one exception is when a cancellation would happen. Someone would cancel and/or modify a time and that reservation would instantly appear. Those cancellations were like gold and would get snatched up quickly for the better rides.


----------



## Jrb1979

Violetspider said:


> Maxpass only offered you the next available time. You could hold off and choose a time that you liked better later in the day.


I'm trying to figure out why anyone would try to find something for later in the day? You would never get your money's worth doing that.


----------



## elgerber

I just really wish they would give a date!  We leave in 2 1/2 weeks and it's really hard to even ballpark plan our days, without knowing if this will be in play or not.


----------



## shawthorne44

Jrb1979 said:


> I'm trying to figure out why anyone would try to find something for later in the day? You would never get your money's worth doing that.



At least the way it worked with MaxPass. You'd get a reservation for the most popular ride for later in the day while you are waiting in early morning short standby lines. The only way that would be worthwhile is if they allow you to get another pass after a cooling off time-period. If you got a 1pm reservation at 9am and then had to wait until you got on the other ride at 1pm to get another reservation, then that wouldn't be worthwhile. 

Stacking/cool-off time period, would also really benefit those that didn't get to the parks until later. They could get reservations at 7am, 9am and 11am from their hotel room. So, if they didn't arrive until lunch, they could have three reservations waiting for them.


----------



## gharter

elgerber said:


> I just really wish they would give a date!  We leave in 2 1/2 weeks and it's really hard to even ballpark plan our days, without knowing if this will be in play or not.


Completely agree.  Not sure if we will use it, but would like to know ahead of time if it will be active during our stay.
I can see where Genie + might be helpful at MK.  Can't see any benefit at AK or EPCOT.


----------



## Landry

Jrb1979 said:


> I'm trying to figure out why anyone would try to find something for later in the day? You would never get your money's worth doing that.



It's definitely a thing for Radiator Springs. It's great during the day but it's amazing after it gets dark. I would try for a MaxPass selection for it first thing in the morning and then keep an eye on it around lunch for the evening/night pass.


----------



## bsmcneil

Landry said:


> It's definitely a thing for Radiator Springs. It's great during the day but it's amazing after it gets dark. I would try for a MaxPass selection for it first thing in the morning and then keep an eye on it around lunch for the evening/night pass.


Slinky Dog Dash is so much better at night. It really, really felt special.


----------



## scrappinginontario

Landry said:


> It's definitely a thing for Radiator Springs. It's great during the day but it's amazing after it gets dark. I would try for a MaxPass selection for it first thing in the morning and then keep an eye on it around lunch for the evening/night pass.


Your response made me go back and read the original announcement and it seems that one of the differences I'd previously missed was that Genie+ will give you the 'next available time to arrive' whereas IA$ will allow a guest to 'schedule a time to arrive'. 

It seems the two will act differently in that one is next available but for those I am choosing to pay an additional fee for, I'll be presented with a variety of options and choose the time that works best for our party.  As you mentioned, some attractions are better at night so it's nice to have the option to schedule them at the time I want to enjoy them or, work them around dining, park hopping, etc.

Still a lot of unanswered questions but that's how I'm reading the original announcement.


----------



## gharter

bsmcneil said:


> Slinky Dog Dash is so much better at night. It really, really felt special.


Agree.  SDD if fun during the day.  But SO much better at night with all the lights really adding to it.


----------



## bashuck

Jrb1979 said:


> I'm trying to figure out why anyone would try to find something for later in the day? You would never get your money's worth doing that.


Park hopping after hitting the pool.  I could easily see leaving MK at noon and planning on arriving at HS at 5pm and wanting to ride ToT at that time.


----------



## Bama Mom

gharter said:


> Completely agree.  Not sure if we will use it, but would like to know ahead of time if it will be active during our stay.
> I can see where Genie + might be helpful at MK.  Can't see any benefit at AK or EPCOT.



This is my thought too. It would be good for Magic Kingdom and Hollywood Studios but not so much for EPCOT and Animal Kingdom for me. I love AK and as long as I get to ride FOP without a long wait (which I wouldn't wait for anyways) I don't see the need to use Genie+ there. When I go in February, Everest is scheduled to be down so the only other thing I care about is FOP and the KS. EPCOT is my least favorite park but we still visit. I wouldn't waste the money for Genie+ here either. There isn't enough that I care to do there to get Genie+. So the only two parks I would get use out of it at are MK and HS.


----------



## Violetspider

Jrb1979 said:


> I'm trying to figure out why anyone would try to find something for later in the day? You would never get your money's worth doing that.


As others have eluded to, people would leave the park for a midday break and still be stacking FP's for the evening. Once back in the park, they could have 3 or 4 evening FPs lined up. They didn't need to relegate them to just the one park either. They could easily bounce back and forth between DL and DCA with a bit of creative timing choices. Maxpass was a great system they I hope is mirrored in G+.

One unfortunate downside to all of this will be the heavy reliance on your device. Once you've purchased G+, you're going to end up on your phone a lot in order to get the most out of your investment. It's been pretty nice the last few trips to WDW without feeling that need to refresh, refresh, refresh for FPs. G+ will be that on steroids, since you will be doing that right out the gate as opposed to after you've used your third FP for the day.


----------



## goofynut41

Wen does this Genie stuff start and how to use it?


----------



## Jrb1979

Violetspider said:


> As others have eluded to, people would leave the park for a midday break and still be stacking FP's for the evening. Once back in the park, they could have 3 or 4 evening FPs lined up. They didn't need to relegate them to just the one park either. They could easily bounce back and forth between DL and DCA with a bit of creative timing choices. Maxpass was a great system they I hope is mirrored in G+.
> 
> One unfortunate downside to all of this will be the heavy reliance on your device. Once you've purchased G+, you're going to end up on your phone a lot in order to get the most out of your investment. It's been pretty nice the last few trips to WDW without feeling that need to refresh, refresh, refresh for FPs. G+ will be that on steroids, since you will be doing that right out the gate as opposed to after you've used your third FP for the day.


I get stacking when at the resort for an afternoon rest. I'm more talking about those that have mentioned hoping to book evening rides first thing in the morning.


----------



## Stephy811

goofynut41 said:


> Wen does this Genie stuff start and how to use it?


Long answer:  read the last 122 pages of this thread
Short answer:  nobody knows lol


----------



## Kbrb

Disney need to rip the band aid, Yes they are going to be mauled over the costs and details but the longer the put it off the more it will start messing with all the 50th stuff.

Unless they push it out mid November on the sly.  Deal with a month of fall out then try to hide behind "xmas at disney!!" 

I have zero doubt the fact we have no details is a direct result of the backlash they are getting.


----------



## scrappinginontario

While I understand people here are anxiously waiting for more information, my thought is the average Disney guest has zero indication that this change is coming.

Tomorrow is their 50th Anniversary and they won’t be doing anything now to mess with that.  

It will happen and more Genie details and  a start date will come but not for the next bit. They will wait until the initial celebrations have kicked off and at this point, I understand that.


----------



## Grasshopper2016

As incompetent and ham-fisted as this entire process has been, I am nonetheless shocked that Disney was not able to get Genie up and running by now.  Tomorrow marks the beginning of the biggest celebration in park history.  The crowds are expected to be huge, and the media will be watching.  For Disney to have no mechanism in place to distribute crowds efficiently, and no option available to skip the lines --- despite having announced and hyped the impending arrival of a whole new and supposedly revolutionary system weeks ago --- is stunning.


----------



## davidbridgman

It is very disappointing because I booked a November 8 trip assuming the system would be up by then. I'm more than willing to pay to skip lines and I hate waiting in line. There is no way I would even want to go without some system in place to reduce waiting.


----------



## shawthorne44

Grasshopper2016 said:


> As incompetent and ham-fisted as this entire process has been, I am nonetheless shocked that Disney was not able to get Genie up and running by now.  Tomorrow marks the beginning of the biggest celebration in park history.  The crowds are expected to be huge, and the media will be watching.  For Disney to have no mechanism in place to distribute crowds efficiently, and no option available to skip the lines --- despite having announced and hyped the impending arrival of a whole new and supposedly revolutionary system weeks ago --- is stunning.



Even just the Genie would have been logical. Since there isn't a charge for that. People could played with that in a low stakes, no-money way.


----------



## Lalalyn

As everyone anxiously awaiting this, I've booked two hotels for our trip -- one on site and one off -- and am waiting for pricing to decide.  The 30 minute early entry seems nice, but knowing my family, we will never quite get there to fully take advantage of it.  I could spend $1000 less on a hotel and pay for Genie+ and Lightning Lanes, car rental seem less than $400, and get a much bigger hotel room with washer/dryer.  In other words, the more expensive it is, the more likely I am to stay off site.  

Now, of course this assumes Lightning Lanes don't sell out for off site guests.  But does anyone expect that to happen?


----------



## OhDannyBoy

Lalalyn said:


> As everyone anxiously awaiting this, I've booked two hotels for our trip -- one on site and one off -- and am waiting for pricing to decide.  The 30 minute early entry seems nice, but knowing my family, we will never quite get there to fully take advantage of it.  I could spend $1000 less on a hotel and pay for Genie+ and Lightning Lanes, car rental seem less than $400, and get a much bigger hotel room with washer/dryer.  In other words, the more expensive it is, the more likely I am to stay off site.
> 
> Now, of course this assumes Lightning Lanes don't sell out for off site guests.  But does anyone expect that to happen?


Well, is the chance to play Lightning Lane Bingo for your opportunity to pay to ride the ride you already paid to ride faster worth $1000 plus the fee if you win the lotto?

Because that's all you'll really get staying on site. Pay more for the chance to pay more to do what you already paid more to do, only faster.


----------



## CWTC

Grasshopper2016 said:


> As incompetent and ham-fisted as this entire process has been, I am nonetheless shocked that Disney was not able to get Genie up and running by now.  Tomorrow marks the beginning of the biggest celebration in park history.  The crowds are expected to be huge, and the media will be watching.  For Disney to have no mechanism in place to distribute crowds efficiently, and no option available to skip the lines --- despite having announced and hyped the impending arrival of a whole new and supposedly revolutionary system weeks ago --- is stunning.


I might be a complete cynic but I firmly believe they are waiting for the 10/2021 crowds and wait times to be insanely high.  THEN they can release Genie+ and IA$ as this great and generous solution to help people with the wait times.  If they release it ahead of time (given recent wait times), it doesn’t seem nearly as valuable. 

I could be wrong.  Maybe it really is an IT issue which is not wholly surprising but I suspect it is a calculated move.


----------



## Lalalyn

OhDannyBoy said:


> Well, is the chance to play Lightning Lane Bingo for your opportunity to pay to ride the ride you already paid to ride faster worth $1000 plus the fee if you win the lotto?
> 
> Because that's all you'll really get staying on site. Pay more for the chance to pay more to do what you already paid more to do, only faster.


Not really.  If I stay on site, I go in 30 minutes before off-site guests and have a prayer of getting on a headliner without more than an hour wait.  But I've already come to the realization that I'm paying more than my ticket price to ride the headliners.  I either pay by staying on site and getting there 30 minutes early for on-site rope drop or I'm buying the Lightning Lanes.  This trip is two years in the making after our last one got cancelled and we weren't comfortable (and wasn't worth it to us) going during COVID.  I've got three kids.  Only time we can go is over spring break.  It is what it is.


----------



## OhDannyBoy

Lalalyn said:


> Not really.  If I stay on site, I go in 30 minutes before off-site guests and have a prayer of getting on a headliner without more than an hour wait.


_"but knowing my family, we will never quite get there to fully take advantage of it."_

And I know that struggle for sure....


----------



## jthornton94

CWTC said:


> I might be a complete cynic but I firmly believe they are waiting for the 10/2021 crowds and wait times to be insanely high.  THEN they can release Genie+ and IA$ as this great and generous solution to help people with the wait times.  If they release it ahead of time (given recent wait times), it doesn’t seem nearly as valuable.
> 
> I could be wrong.  Maybe it really is an IT issue which is not wholly surprising but I suspect it is a calculated move.


The only reason I disagree is that most people don’t track wait times if they aren’t at the park.  Someone going the first week of November probably isn’t watching crowds in October.  And those there is October won’t be swayed as most won’t be returning soon.  Chances are the crowds will be lower after Oct. 11th anyways,


----------



## bookgirl2632

jthornton94 said:


> The only reason I disagree is that most people don’t track wait times if they aren’t at the park.  Someone going the first week of November probably isn’t watching crowds in October.  And those there is October won’t be swayed as most won’t be returning soon.  Chances are the crowds will be lower after Oct. 11th anyways,


I sure hope so!  We arrive 10/12.


----------



## DLgal

Jrb1979 said:


> I'm trying to figure out why anyone would try to find something for later in the day? You would never get your money's worth doing that.



It worked great when you had midday lunch plans or wanted to take a midday break back at the hotel. You'd then have late afternoon/evening fastpasses waiting to be used when you went back into the parks.


----------



## CWTC

jthornton94 said:


> Chances are the crowds will be lower after Oct. 11th anyways,


Here’s hoping you are right about that - we arrive 10/16!


----------



## itf

CWTC said:


> I might be a complete cynic but I firmly believe they are waiting for the 10/2021 crowds and wait times to be insanely high.  THEN they can release Genie+ and IA$ as this great and generous solution to help people with the wait times.  If they release it ahead of time (given recent wait times), it doesn’t seem nearly as valuable.
> 
> I could be wrong.  Maybe it really is an IT issue which is not wholly surprising but I suspect it is a calculated move.



Do they really want to launch IA$ at maximum capacity with the highest 'surge' price potentially? It's just more bad PR.


----------



## shawthorne44

itf said:


> Do they really want to launch IA$ at maximum capacity with the highest 'surge' price potentially? It's just more bad PR.


And if they started IA$$$ during a super busy and only charged IA$, then a great many people would buy it and they'd be unhappy about still waiting in a long line, and the people in standby would be unhappy about being downgraded to the FPP standby experience.


----------



## ABE4DISNEY

Geesh, Disney has taken the fun out of Disney.  
Just too much work now.


----------



## fly girl

itf said:


> Do they really want to launch IA$ at maximum capacity with the highest 'surge' price potentially? It's just more bad PR.



I think they want to appease shareholders and make money. IIMHO, if they could've launched it, they would have.

My guess, the abysmal IT doesn’t have it seamless yet, and they didn’t want to have the headline, “Walt Disney World 50th Plauged with Chaos by New App.” No doubt in my mind if it was ready to go live they would’ve done it.

I am really hoping it launches soon. We are going end of October and after our April visit we said we wouldn’t  return until some form of FP was back. After reading rumors in August it was going to be first week of October I felt comfortable booking the trip. Hope I don’t regret it.


----------



## elgerber

And another potential update, no clue how accurate...

https://allears.net/2021/09/30/disn...ep0Y2MyBEDXHHzJ5Pp2zB8xSjstG-gxTfrsRQovIbO0ok


----------



## FRANKTSJR

Our annual October trip is coming up in two weeks. I know it is going to be crowded and really no way to avoid the stand-by lines at this point. Not gonna be good!


----------



## kristenabelle

elgerber said:


> And another potential update, no clue how accurate...
> 
> https://allears.net/2021/09/30/disn...ep0Y2MyBEDXHHzJ5Pp2zB8xSjstG-gxTfrsRQovIbO0ok



Seems like it's pretty accurate; this is what all the media preview folks have been reporting. I'm assuming they've been embargoed from giving a release date because based on one video they were able to ask the CM questions.

Carlye Wisel mentioned she'd be sharing even more details in her podcast next week, so possibly an update then or between then?


----------



## Jrb1979

FRANKTSJR said:


> Our annual October trip is coming up in two weeks. I know it is going to be crowded and really no way to avoid the stand-by lines at this point. Not gonna be good!



I don't it will be that crowded. From what many are saying is there is a lot of availability.


----------



## katyringo

I don't think the crowds are coming. Idk... just a hunch. My November trip I'm seeing lots of dinning and booking availability. I think many folks have planned for 2022. Tomorrow will be busy in MK but I don't think the resort will be busy. International crowds still aren't there.  Idk.. just my thoughts.


----------



## Violetspider

elgerber said:


> And another potential update, no clue how accurate...
> 
> https://allears.net/2021/09/30/disn...ep0Y2MyBEDXHHzJ5Pp2zB8xSjstG-gxTfrsRQovIbO0ok


Ugh! That would ruin it for me. I don't go on every ride in each park. I have my favorites that I go on multiple times. G+ is quickly turning into a lemon. Definitely not like MaxPass.


----------



## DIS Lifer

Violetspider said:


> Ugh! That would ruin it for me. I don't go on every ride in each park. I have my favorites that I go on multiple times. G+ is quickly turning into a lemon. Definitely not like MaxPass.




I was thinking the same thing. There are rides we definitely like to go on multiple times and a lot that we skip. If there is availability, I don't understand why they would limit it to once.


----------



## DIS Lifer

DIS Lifer said:


> I was thinking the same thing. There are rides we definitely like to go on multiple times and a lot that we skip. If there is availability, I don't understand why they would limit it to once.



At the very least they could tier it. Tier 1 is IA$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ or once per day, tier 2 is twice per day, tier 3 is ride it as many times as you want if there is availability.


----------



## Kaelorian

Violetspider said:


> Ugh! That would ruin it for me. I don't go on every ride in each park. I have my favorites that I go on multiple times. G+ is quickly turning into a lemon. Definitely not like MaxPass.


Agreed!! Even less value now


----------



## bookgirl2632

Violetspider said:


> Ugh! That would ruin it for me. I don't go on every ride in each park. I have my favorites that I go on multiple times. G+ is quickly turning into a lemon. Definitely not like MaxPass.


We ride Buzz Lightyear and Toy Story Mania over and over to beat our scores.  I got good at getting FPs for TSM over the years.  I’ve also been know to ride Everest, Space, or Big Thunder several times in a row.  This Genie+ rule doesn’t work for me.


----------



## mom2rtk

elgerber said:


> And another potential update, no clue how accurate...
> 
> https://allears.net/2021/09/30/disn...ep0Y2MyBEDXHHzJ5Pp2zB8xSjstG-gxTfrsRQovIbO0ok


More sites reporting the same now. Purchased Genie+ will only allow one ride per attraction. And with that, I'm out. I was going to buy for about half our park days, but now I won't buy it at all.

This is NOT like unlimited Express Pass we get at USO for FREE staying onsite for about the price of a Disney moderate. That allows more than one use per attraction.

This is NOT like MaxPass which did not limit the number of rides per attraction.

How would anyone get value out of this at parks with just a few decent attractions.

BOO!


----------



## jmv223

Once per ride is a total deal breaker. Especially in the parks with fewer rides.


----------



## RedmonFamily

elgerber said:


> And another potential update, no clue how accurate...
> 
> https://allears.net/2021/09/30/disn...ep0Y2MyBEDXHHzJ5Pp2zB8xSjstG-gxTfrsRQovIbO0ok


Wow as others have said, it just lost a lot of what little value it had...


----------



## persnickity2020

Why on Earth would someone pay for that at Animal Kingdom, then?  What a moronic blunder.


----------



## mom2rtk

What a lovely little "Happy 50th" gift to all of their fans.


----------



## RedmonFamily

persnickity2020 said:


> Why on Earth would someone pay for that at Animal Kingdom, then?  What a moronic blunder.


And Epcot...


----------



## mom2rtk

RedmonFamily said:


> And Epcot...


And DHS....


----------



## DLgal

elgerber said:


> And another potential update, no clue how accurate...
> 
> https://allears.net/2021/09/30/disn...ep0Y2MyBEDXHHzJ5Pp2zB8xSjstG-gxTfrsRQovIbO0ok



BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!


----------



## maggnanimouse

The longer they withhold a rollout date and other key details, the more upset I get about the entire thing.  And then I have to continue reminding myself that in the big scheme of things, this isn't a big deal lol

Though, that's getting tough to do when my early November trip is creeping ever closer.


----------



## bethbuchall

elgerber said:


> And another potential update, no clue how accurate...
> 
> https://allears.net/2021/09/30/disn...ep0Y2MyBEDXHHzJ5Pp2zB8xSjstG-gxTfrsRQovIbO0ok


If that’s true, it seems even more useless for anything other than MK to me.


----------



## mom2rtk

maggnanimouse said:


> The longer they withhold a rollout date and other key details, the more upset I get about the entire thing.  And then I have to continue reminding myself that in the big scheme of things, this isn't a big deal lol
> 
> Though, that's getting tough to do when my early November trip is creeping ever closer.


But access to rides really IS a big deal.


----------



## canyoncam

I can see where they are truly trying to ease abuse and ease backlogged lines But I say if they want to limit access they could create a waiting period at least-say two hours-and a limit of three times per day.  I’d even pay a bit more for it. Alas that would only satisfy me.


----------



## fly girl

elgerber said:


> And another potential update, no clue how accurate...
> 
> https://allears.net/2021/09/30/disn...ep0Y2MyBEDXHHzJ5Pp2zB8xSjstG-gxTfrsRQovIbO0ok



That is HORRIBLE! And I mean HORRIBLE!! 

I have never heard of a park limiting the number of times you can utilize a Fast Pass, Lightening Lane, Fast Lane, Express Pass or whatever the heck you want to call it. Limit to only once? Are you freaking kidding me!?! UGH. Our entire mission in DCA is to ride all 6 of the GOTG music sequences. If I am shelling out $20 more per day per person, we should get to ride it as many times as we want like we did with MaxPass. Same with TSMM. We ride that with intentions of beating one another. Whoever wins first is always the person to "take down" the next ride and so forth. Now we only get to use it once? ONCE? Absolutely infuriating. 

I was fine with Genie + until I found out about this tidbit. IA$$ was always a nickel and dime eye roll  scenario to me. But I loved MaxPass so I thought I could make this work.

Disney is killing me. And I was not one of the angry people when they first announced it.  I guess they won't succeed until they tick us all off.  They just did that with me.


----------



## fly girl

maggnanimouse said:


> The longer they withhold a rollout date and other key details, the more upset I get about the entire thing.  And then I have to continue reminding myself that in the big scheme of things, this isn't a big deal lol
> 
> Though, that's getting tough to do when my early November trip is creeping ever closer.



In the scheme of life, no it isn't a big deal.

In the scheme of your vacation and your hard earned money, it is a big deal! And you have every right to be annoyed. You likely have been planning this vacation for quite some time and you can't really grasp how it is going to pan out because they are being so elusive. If it wasn't so expensive you may have more patience and understanding. But this is Disney. It ain't cheap. You know it, they know it ... yet it feels like they really don't give a hoot about how they are treating their patrons.


----------



## Airb330

This is clearly to spread the crowds out. However, if someone wants to ride pirates twice and someone wants to ride haunted mansion twice…Disney may just convinced people like that not to buy G+ at all. Ugh, FP+ looking better and better.


----------



## mom2rtk

canyoncam said:


> I can see where they are truly trying to ease abuse and ease backlogged lines But I say if they want to limit access they could create a waiting period at least-say two hours-and a limit of three times per day.  I’d even pay a bit more for it. Alas that would only satisfy me.


What abuse? My guess is they're trying to hold back capacity to monetize additionally somehow.


----------



## DLgal

mom2rtk said:


> What abuse? My guess is they're trying to hold back capacity to monetize additionally somehow.



Exactly. It's just about getting people to move around the park more which means more opportunities to sell you food, drinks, and merch.


----------



## Mrs~Incredible

This post is related to the free Genie planning service coming soon- there are lots of threads already about the paid components!

Just saw a video demo and I’m scratching my head trying to figure out if it will be helpful to us. The list of restaurants with walk up availability etc may be convenient, but just not sure about the other pieces.  I feel like with being an experienced Disney traveler, I can simply glance at wait times and know where I want to go next- I feel like Genie encourages more face-to-phone time- and I want to be on my phone less, not more….

so for experienced travelers, what advantages does free Genie offer?

would love everyone’s insight because our trip may be near its launch, and just want to have a sense of any good possible strategies.

thanks!!


----------



## fly girl

DLgal said:


> Exactly. It's just about getting people to move around the park more which means more opportunities to sell you food, drinks, and merch.



On the flip side it’s counterintuitive. I’m now stuck in standby line instead of using LL. Instead of being finished in say 15 minutes, I’m in a 45 minute standby line not spending my money on food or merchandise.


----------



## emilymad

I wonder if they are choosing to do this since they will somehow have to explain how this all works to guests who show up and know nothing about it.  It is already a complicated 3 part system but then to have "surprise" people at check in with now you can spend extra $$ per day you knew nothing about.

Disney wants the standby lines to be shorter so people don't complain about the extra $ so they limit the LL each day but then they also want the lines to be long so people by G+.  

Disney wants it both ways which somehow makes everyone lose.


----------



## Lalalyn

This certainly makes it harder to envision a spring break 2022 trip.  Too much uncertainty to pull the trigger on spending that much money and not knowing how things will work.  I was assuming we'd have much more information by now and never thought you'd be limited to one Genie+ per ride per day.


----------



## Leight19

I’m also trying to think how frustrating it will be if you don’t strategize and by afternoon high demand attraction sold out and only ones left to book you can’t because you rode in morning. I feel like this is another cash grab to ensure people pay for genie plus and park hopping because otherwise you run out of things to do.

I guess the one positive is I didn’t plan to buy so this should be good for me as less buy it and those who do can’t use it very much.


----------



## pants

The one Genie+ access per ride should make standby lines move faster than they did with Fastpass+ as well as make availability less of an issue. This is definitely geared toward people who do not do months of planning prior to their trips which should make their vacations less intimidating. Even during Fastpass+ days having a touring plan was always more important for those who like to set up their days beforehand.


----------



## Disturbia

Thanks for the park hopping tip (I didn’t think of that; although for this upcoming trip my ADRs are already set).  I think that would be a better value for a long stay (we always take a midday break and have to go back to a park using transportation). 

Our post COVID trips lines were so long we rarely did any repeats except single rider lines. Some days half of our party did 2-3 rides and was done for the day, so we were looking forward to this $1,540 extra cost to better our trip (4 riders 7 days; $20*2 LL per person, $15 genie+).  I do miss the option of after hours.


----------



## peteykirch

Absolutely disappointed if it's true you can only use Genie+ once to ride and book a slot for a ride.

If I wanted to ride Pirates multiple times in the same day with Genie+ and there is availability you should be able to book a slot, not be locked into only once and then having to do standby for the rest of the day.


----------



## fly girl

I have never written to Guest Services ... until now. 

WDW and DL both received emails this morning. I know it won't do squat, but at least I voiced my displeasure.  This is so disappointing to me. I just cannot see how this is a win/win for Disney and its guests. 

Everyone reaches their tipping point, this is mine.


----------



## mom2rtk

fly girl said:


> On the flip side it’s counterintuitive. I’m now stuck in standby line instead of using LL. Instead of being finished in say 15 minutes, I’m in a 45 minute standby line not spending my money on food or merchandise.


Exactly that.


----------



## diskids2

The whole thing was my tipping point LOL!  I'm an uber planner so this is wrecking my brain and not in a good way......that being said.....I'm a planner so....
I've got four buckets under each day of my trip that I plan to go to the park   GENIE PLUS     INDIVIDUAL LL     ROPE DROP (ON ONLY CERTAIN DAYS)     STAND BY

My expectations are very low:  1-2 rope drop rides identified.  1-2 genie plus rides - identified and hopeful.   2 individual LL on each day planned   praying the times I get don't interfere with dining plans or anything else.    and finally stand by - trying to avoid like the plague.  I'm going for 10 days over Christmas break  - been there five times already at this time - so my expectations are VERY low to begin with.  I'm hoping that I can get six rides in each day if we also rope drop that day.  

On my two EPCOT days....I've added a fifth bucket - Remy boarding group.  

My DH and DS are going four days before me....they don't do anything with MDE - that's my real fear!!!!!!!


----------



## fabfemmeboy

Mrs~Incredible said:


> This post is related to the free Genie planning service coming soon- there are lots of threads already about the paid components!
> 
> Just saw a video demo and I’m scratching my head trying to figure out if it will be helpful to us. The list of restaurants with walk up availability etc may be convenient, but just not sure about the other pieces.  I feel like with being an experienced Disney traveler, I can simply glance at wait times and know where I want to go next- I feel like Genie encourages more face-to-phone time- and I want to be on my phone less, not more….
> 
> so for experienced travelers, what advantages does free Genie offer?



My opinion? Nothing at all.  It offers Disney the ability to entice crowds to other areas of the park, which is understandable and may help some less-frequent travelers who want to optimize their ride-to-line time ratio.  I completely agree with you about it encouraging spending more time staring at the phone when that's the last thing I want to be doing at Disney.  I also worry it encourages more criss-crossing the park and thus sore feet for ambulatory folks.  But that's all speculation as we haven't seen the app and how it works in practice yet.


----------



## sjmac42

With regards to the Genie+ once per ride per day, a few things to consider . . . .
1.  Whilst this is been reported on a few fan sites, was it the same cast member that they all spoke to or did this come from multiple cast members at the preview?
2.  Did the cast member(s) understand the question?
3.  Did those that reported on this correctly interpret the answer?
4.  Was the right question asked or was it asked clearly?
5.  Was this info first hand, ie, did they ALL actually hear it from the cast member or someone else who spoke to a cast member and passed on the “info”.
6.  Did everyone just get their wires crossed and confuse Genie+ and IA$, exactly as a very well known Disneyland vlogger did on his podcast today

Maybe, maybe not.  Let’s hope it was a mistake, a misunderstanding or can be, as suggested, changed.


----------



## mom2rtk

Mrs~Incredible said:


> This post is related to the free Genie planning service coming soon- there are lots of threads already about the paid components!
> 
> Just saw a video demo and I’m scratching my head trying to figure out if it will be helpful to us. The list of restaurants with walk up availability etc may be convenient, but just not sure about the other pieces.  I feel like with being an experienced Disney traveler, I can simply glance at wait times and know where I want to go next- I feel like Genie encourages more face-to-phone time- and I want to be on my phone less, not more….
> 
> so for experienced travelers, what advantages does free Genie offer?
> 
> would love everyone’s insight because our trip may be near its launch, and just want to have a sense of any good possible strategies.
> 
> thanks!!


Honestly I doubt I'll use it. I feel like Disney will try to suggest I do things that meet THEIR goals as opposed to MY goals.


----------



## rmclain73

sjmac42 said:


> With regards to the Genie+ once per ride per day, a few things to consider . . . .
> 1.  Whilst this is been reported on a few fan sites, was it the same cast member that they all spoke to or did this come from multiple cast members at the preview?
> 2.  Did the cast member(s) understand the question?
> 3.  Did those that reported on this correctly interpret the answer?
> 4.  Was the right question asked or was it asked clearly?
> 5.  Was this info first hand, ie, did they ALL actually hear it from the cast member or someone else who spoke to a cast member and passed on the “info”.
> 6.  Did everyone just get their wires crossed and confuse Genie+ and IA$, exactly as a very well known Disneyland vlogger did on his podcast today
> 
> Maybe, maybe not.  Let’s hope it was a mistake, a misunderstanding or can be, as suggested, changed.



All THIS.  Disney has yet to make an official announcement.


----------



## jodybird511

rmclain73 said:


> All THIS.  Disney has yet to make an official announcement.


Yes, yes, yes.  Let's not get our panties in a wad until we hear an official announcement.  Then, feel free to wad those panties at will...


----------



## JennyDrake

fly girl said:


> I have never written to Guest Services ... until now.
> 
> WDW and DL both received emails this morning. I know it won't do squat, but at least I voiced my displeasure.  This is so disappointing to me. I just cannot see how this is a win/win for Disney and its guests.
> 
> Everyone reaches their tipping point, this is mine.



This is mine as well and I'm also penning a handwritten letter. I've been AP holder for 16+ years and I am not renewing. While I LOVE WDW and feel very safe there as an often solo female traveler, I'm done. AP prices soaring (now over $1000 for renew), EMH ONLY for deluxe resort guests, charging from the airport transportation and NOW (tada!) TWO more ways for you to PAY MORE each and every day!! And damn if I want to be glued to my cell phone on vacation. So looks like Universal, here I come!


----------



## shawthorne44

Mrs~Incredible said:


> This post is related to the free Genie planning service coming soon- there are lots of threads already about the paid components!



Bringing this back to the free Genie service. I see it as a crappy imitation of Touring Plans. We know that they can't give us accurate wait times. We know that it will try to point us where Disney wants us to go, not where we want to go, unless the two don't conflict. I'll be using TP and ignoring Genie unless I want to check in at a restaurant.


----------



## Micca

emilymad said:


> I wonder if they are choosing to do this since they will somehow have to explain how this all works to guests who show up and know nothing about it. It is already a complicated 3 part system but then to have "surprise" people at check in with now you can spend extra $$ per day you knew nothing about.


Kinda like when they encourage you to buy the additional insurance at the rental car counter?

This will be a nightmare for CMs, and they already have a lot on their plate.


----------



## Kmilos1024

wouldn't the one ride only make the standby much more bearable?  As someone who has no interest in forking over more money to cut lines, I am happy they are limiting it.  This honestly would make me respect Disney more because they realize not everyone wants to pay to cut the line, yet they aren't penalizing those people for not buying it since the standby should be more manageable with the limit on rerides.


----------



## shaqfor3

I just hope they announce when it is starting soon.  I have a tentative trip for November 2-9 and I want to know if I should count on this or not.

I already have Hopper, so if they limit rides to 1 per day, I may still get it and hopp to another park and keep using it (assuming I can, that nowdays you never know).

Looking at lines right now (longest line in all WDW is Haunted Mansion with 60 minutes, RotR is at 55 min, Slinky and 7DMT 40 minutes...  I wonder if I should be rooting for LL to be alive after my trip and not before lol.


----------



## disneyfan123

Kmilos1024 said:


> wouldn't the one ride only make the standby much more bearable?  As someone who has no interest in forking over more money to cut lines, I am happy they are limiting it.  This honestly would make me respect Disney more because they realize not everyone wants to pay to cut the line, yet they aren't penalizing those people for not buying it since the standby should be more manageable with the limit on rerides.



I’m hoping for this too. While I loved FP/FP+, if I’m going to be spending more time in stand-by queues, hopefully they move quickly. If there are few people using the LL, then that is beneficial. I have considered purchasing Genie+ for a few days (mostly for MK, maybe for HS), but this makes it less likely I will do that now, especially as one of my children qualify for DAS. 

This announcement makes me really question who would buy it at all?


----------



## TiggerBouncy

sjmac42 said:


> With regards to the Genie+ once per ride per day, a few things to consider . . . .
> 1.  Whilst this is been reported on a few fan sites, was it the same cast member that they all spoke to or did this come from multiple cast members at the preview?
> 2.  Did the cast member(s) understand the question?
> 3.  Did those that reported on this correctly interpret the answer?
> 4.  Was the right question asked or was it asked clearly?
> 5.  Was this info first hand, ie, did they ALL actually hear it from the cast member or someone else who spoke to a cast member and passed on the “info”.
> 6.  Did everyone just get their wires crossed and confuse Genie+ and IA$, exactly as a very well known Disneyland vlogger did on his podcast today
> 
> Maybe, maybe not.  Let’s hope it was a mistake, a misunderstanding or can be, as suggested, changed.



I am hoping you are correct. I was in the crowd looking forward to Genie+. But this would be a deal breaker. MAYBE the CM thought they were being asked if you could book multiple rides at the same time which we know you can't. 

Has there been an official word? 

And WHEN already? I was SURE it would have been out by Oct 1st! I'm there in a week.


----------



## Disturbia

Lines don’t look bad at all today and it’s one of the sold out days.  We waited 45 mins for POC and 60 for Jungle Cruise in June and kids were done; we ate at Pecos bill and half our party cancelled  BOG reservations and just stayed back.  Makes me feel better and hopeful we can manage standby for our upcoming trip (in 4 weeks).   Epcot opens at 10 so boarding groups should open at 9am for that park (They need to stagger BGs to not overload the system).


----------



## ZellyB

I really only saw G+ being worthwhile at MK and DHS for us but without a re-ride option, I'm not sure the value would be there for me at even those parks.  And while I understand in theory this would make standby better, having been there in February with no FP at all, I was really unhappy with the length of standby lines.  I'll wait until we hear this from a direct source, but certainly changes my perspective about the value of G+


----------



## Kbrb

This will help the standby lines not having a stream of people bypassing it repeatedly. Whole families booking repeated rides in tsm would cause huge standbys 

It also confirms it’s not getting used at AK and  probably Epcot for me

Of course they can always introduce Disneygenie ++.


----------



## Jrb1979

sjmac42 said:


> With regards to the Genie+ once per ride per day, a few things to consider . . . .
> 1.  Whilst this is been reported on a few fan sites, was it the same cast member that they all spoke to or did this come from multiple cast members at the preview?
> 2.  Did the cast member(s) understand the question?
> 3.  Did those that reported on this correctly interpret the answer?
> 4.  Was the right question asked or was it asked clearly?
> 5.  Was this info first hand, ie, did they ALL actually hear it from the cast member or someone else who spoke to a cast member and passed on the “info”.
> 6.  Did everyone just get their wires crossed and confuse Genie+ and IA$, exactly as a very well known Disneyland vlogger did on his podcast today
> 
> Maybe, maybe not.  Let’s hope it was a mistake, a misunderstanding or can be, as suggested, changed.




This says otherwise. It may be changed but Disney also did say the price is an introductory one.


----------



## emonade8

JennyDrake said:


> This is mine as well and I'm also penning a handwritten letter. I've been AP holder for 16+ years and I am not renewing. While I LOVE WDW and feel very safe there as an often solo female traveler, I'm done. AP prices soaring (now over $1000 for renew), EMH ONLY for deluxe resort guests, charging from the airport transportation and NOW (tada!) TWO more ways for you to PAY MORE each and every day!! And damn if I want to be glued to my cell phone on vacation. So looks like Universal, here I come!


----------



## mickeyluv'r

mrsdaly said:


> I arrive 10/30... I remember being there when they started FP+, a few weeks in. And honestly I didn't mind being the guinea pig because it seemed to be the case that only a handful of people knew about it, so it worked pretty decent. If this is the same case (where it's not widely known in the early stages) then maybe I wouldn't mind being the guinea pig.


I was at WDW when FP+ was new, not first day new, but still quite new, and I thought it was a hot mess.  The only thing that was helpful was that I knew about it in advance, so we were lucky enough to have picked our 3 FP.  Back then that was it, just 3, no #4.  

If you were in the parks, and you didn't have your FP, your only option was to wait in a very long line. The CM's had a rough job, and little ability to answer questions.

I momentarily thought about changing one of our FP, but then we saw the long lines, and thought better of it.  

I felt bad for all the people that had to wait in the long kiosk lines that visit.  I mean, normally I don't pay all that much attention to strangers, but the shared frustration we saw all over MK that trip was very palpable. 

I do suspect though, not only will man not know about it initially, but even many who do might not opt to buy it. Ther could be many who want to wait and see.


----------



## fabfemmeboy

Kmilos1024 said:


> wouldn't the one ride only make the standby much more bearable?  As someone who has no interest in forking over more money to cut lines, I am happy they are limiting it.  This honestly would make me respect Disney more because they realize not everyone wants to pay to cut the line, yet they aren't penalizing those people for not buying it since the standby should be more manageable with the limit on rerides.



I agree with the impact.  I think the issue people have with it is that it's $15 per person per day, which is already steep on top of how pricey Disney tickets are, you have to pay extra for more popular rides, AND it only gets you one 'faster' line per ride per day when many people like to ride the same few rides multiple times.  Combined with how few rides there are in some of the parks, it feels like it doesn't do anything to alleviate the problem people wanted fixed: long standby lines.  Sure, right now standby lines are fine (good, even!), but this summer it was taking hours to ride even small things.  Genie+, though an added expense, was theoretically going to help with that...and it doesn't.  So it's an added expense that doesn't give people what they thought/hoped it would be.  

Personally, I think the solution is not to buy the darn thing, thereby not wasting money AND sticking it to Cheapek, but everyone's free to do as they like.


----------



## sjmac42

Jrb1979 said:


> This says otherwise. It may be changed but Disney also did say the price is an introductory one.


It does say otherwise but it doesn’t show otherwise and isn’t an official Disney announcement. That’s the point of my earlier post, this is just a few vloggers reporting what they saw at a preview low on detail (nothing we didn’t know already) and what they maybe heard from a cast member.


----------



## Jrb1979

sjmac42 said:


> It does say otherwise but it doesn’t show otherwise and isn’t an official Disney announcement. That’s the point of my earlier post, this is just a few vloggers reporting what they have heard, maybe from a cast member, maybe from another vlogger, who knows.


It sort of is an official announcement. She got a preview of Genie+ from Disney.  I honestly people don't want to believe it cause it's not what they want to hear.


----------



## Marionnette

sjmac42 said:


> With regards to the Genie+ once per ride per day, a few things to consider . . . .
> 1.  Whilst this is been reported on a few fan sites, was it the same cast member that they all spoke to or did this come from multiple cast members at the preview?
> 2.  Did the cast member(s) understand the question?
> 3.  Did those that reported on this correctly interpret the answer?
> 4.  Was the right question asked or was it asked clearly?
> 5.  Was this info first hand, ie, did they ALL actually hear it from the cast member or someone else who spoke to a cast member and passed on the “info”.
> 6.  Did everyone just get their wires crossed and confuse Genie+ and IA$, exactly as a very well known Disneyland vlogger did on his podcast today
> 
> Maybe, maybe not.  Let’s hope it was a mistake, a misunderstanding or can be, as suggested, changed.





rmclain73 said:


> All THIS.  Disney has yet to make an official announcement.





jodybird511 said:


> Yes, yes, yes.  Let's not get our panties in a wad until we hear an official announcement.  Then, feel free to wad those panties at will...


Carlye Wisel is a pretty trusted source. She and other media types were given a Genie/Genie+ preview. She tweeted about it yesterday afternoon and included video from the preview. The audio wasn't very clear but it did not sound as if the discussion between CM and media type was about the 1 LL per day per attraction limit.

Allears.net was also in on a media briefing and has a considerable amount of photos and comments on their website.

While it's entirely possible that things could change before the rollout (or even afterwards based on guest feedback), the 1 ride per attraction with Genie+ is pretty much a foregone conclusion that has been reported by a number of reputable sources that are not known to rely on click bait.


----------



## Jrb1979

Marionnette said:


> Carlye Wisel is a pretty trusted source. She and other media types were given a Genie/Genie+ preview. She tweeted about it yesterday afternoon and included video from the preview. The audio wasn't very clear but it did not sound as if the discussion between CM and media type was about the 1 LL per day per attraction limit.
> 
> Allears.net was also in on a media briefing and has a considerable amount of photos and comments on their website.
> 
> While it's entirely possible that things could change before the rollout (or even afterwards based on guest feedback), the 1 ride per attraction with Genie+ is pretty much a foregone conclusion that has been reported by a number of reputable sources that are not known to rely on click bait.


Like I said, I think what it really comes down to is people don't want to believe it cause it's not what they want to hear.


----------



## sjmac42

Jrb1979 said:


> Like I said, I think what it really comes down to is people don't want to believe it cause it's not what they want to hear.


I think you’re drawing a conclusion there without having all the facts which, again, is my point.  I’ve simply outlined several valid reason there may be doubt about this.  To say it’s a foregone conclusion based on potentially what 1 person heard from one other person who may not have clearly understood a question from a “media” person who isn’t actually a trained professional journalist about something they aren’t clear about from someone else who may just be wrong or confused by a question without notice . . . . . . . . .

I’m just saying there isn’t enough solid information yet to draw any solid conclusions.  Anyone who thinks this is official Disney policy based on a few vlogs or Twitter videos that could easily fall under any of the 6 points I made earlier is been premature imo.


----------



## Jrb1979

sjmac42 said:


> I think you’re drawing a conclusion there without having all the facts which, again, is my point.  I’ve simply outlined several valid reason there may be doubt about this.  To say it’s a foregone conclusion based on potentially what 1 person heard from one other person who may not have clearly understood a question from a “media” person who isn’t actually a trained professional journalist about something they aren’t clear about from someone else who may just be wrong or confused by a question without notice . . . . . . . . .
> 
> I’m just saying there isn’t enough solid information yet to draw any solid conclusions.  Anyone who thinks this is official Disney policy based on a few vlogs or Twitter videos that could easily fall under any of the 6 points I made earlier is been premature imo.


https://allears.net/2021/09/30/disney-genie-will-only-allow-you-on-each-ride-once/
There is solid information. This is from the allears article. 

But, during a special preview event today, a Cast Member shared with us guests will NOT be able to re-ride attractions with Genie+. 

It was a special preview that Disney put on. Unless you are waiting for Disney to officially announce it in hopes it changes.


----------



## SkyGuy

Jrb1979 said:


> https://allears.net/2021/09/30/disney-genie-will-only-allow-you-on-each-ride-once/
> There is solid information. This is from the allears article.
> 
> But, during a special preview event today, a Cast Member shared with us guests will NOT be able to re-ride attractions with Genie+.
> 
> It was a special preview that Disney put on. Unless you are waiting for Disney to officially announce it in hopes it changes.


It’s also been reported by Scott Gustin who is highly reliable.
Edit: Full disclosure - I went to link and discovered that Scott was going off the info from Carlye on this. However, I feel confident in saying he would not pass this info on if he wasn’t sure it was true.


----------



## Marionnette

sjmac42 said:


> I think you’re drawing a conclusion there without having all the facts which, again, is my point.  I’ve simply outlined several valid reason there may be doubt about this.  To say it’s a foregone conclusion based on potentially what 1 person heard from one other person who may not have clearly understood a question from a “media” person who isn’t actually a trained professional journalist about something they aren’t clear about from someone else who may just be wrong or confused by a question without notice . . . . . . . . .
> 
> I’m just saying there isn’t enough solid information yet to draw any solid conclusions.  Anyone who thinks this is official Disney policy based on a few vlogs or Twitter videos that could easily fall under any of the 6 points I made earlier is been premature imo.


Believe what you want.


----------



## PepperjackDragon

Marionnette said:


> Believe what you want.


His point was not that he “believes” something different but simply that there wasn’t sufficient information to be certain. If any of us had to actually place a bet I suspect everyone here would now bet it is limited to one ride pp. This is a bit surprising as it suggest disneys primary focus is to reduce wait times and overall customer satisfaction, rather than profiteering as assumed in most of this thread (and leads to skepticism that such a limitation would last long). 
   However, being confident something is likely is not the same thing as being certain. As more information comes in (such as the post above yours) it becomes increasingly likely. However, until it comes from Disney we can only assume with confidence—similar to but not the same as being certain.


----------



## sjmac42

SkyGuy said:


> Full disclosure - I went to link and discovered that Scott was going off the info from Carlye on this.


I’m fairly confident they all are, hearing it from someone else that is.  Except the 1 or 2 people who actually spoke to this cast member of course.  They didn’t all speak to a cast member personally but are reporting it as if they did.  That’s enough to cast doubt on the validity of the information.


PepperjackDragon said:


> His point was not that he “believes” something different but simply that there wasn’t sufficient information to be certain. If any of us had to actually place a bet I suspect everyone here would now bet it is limited to one ride pp. This is a bit surprising as it suggest disneys primary focus is to reduce wait times and overall customer satisfaction, rather than profiteering as assumed in most of this thread (and leads to skepticism that such a limitation would last long).
> *However, being confident something is likely is not the same thing as being certain.* As more information comes in (such as the post above yours) it becomes increasingly likely. However, until it comes from Disney we can only assume with confidence—similar to but not the same as being certain.


Exactly.  And thankyou.


----------



## sjmac42

Marionnette said:


> Believe what you want.


No need for that and as stated previously, it has nothing to do with what I believe.  I‘ve gone through it all and am just politely presenting a point of view and perhaps some context of what is been “reported” by the various vloggers and fan sites.


----------



## HelloMimi

Just chiming in to say that my sister had a meeting at work regarding Genie about a week ago, and her exact words to me were that "you can't re-ride a ride." She doesn't work in attractions so she wasn't given in-depth training, just enough to help guests with simple questions.


----------



## Jrb1979

sjmac42 said:


> I’m fairly confident they all are, hearing it from someone else that is.  Except the 1 or 2 people who actually spoke to this cast member of course.  They didn’t all speak to a cast member personally but are reporting it as if they did.  That’s enough to cast doubt on the validity of the information.


It wasn't 1 or 2 people who spoke to a cast member it was at Genie+ preview event. This quote is right from the AllEars article. 

"during a special preview event today, a Cast Member shared with us guests will NOT be able to re-ride attractions with Genie+."

What's more valid then that? It might as well be Disney themselves that say it. Or you don't want to believe that either?


----------



## sjmac42

Jrb1979 said:


> It wasn't 1 or 2 people who spoke to a cast member it was at Genie+ preview event. This quote is right from the AllEars article.
> 
> "during a special preview event today, a Cast Member shared with us guests will NOT be able to re-ride attractions with Genie+."
> 
> What's more valid then that? It might as well be Disney themselves that say it. Or you don't want to believe that either?


You’re assuming the comment and the cast member in question was part of the official preview presentation.  It’s not written that way at all.  It’s written as if this was a comment from a cast member who was approached by someone and asked a question.  Had this been part of the presentation I would expect details on the cast members position, perhaps name like many many other reports I’ve seen on preview events in the past.  It is also written as if it’s seperate from the official presentation as the screen previews of Genie and this are mentioned separately in all the articles.  Plus if one vlogger has already admitted they heard of this comment through someone else even though they were there, why wouldn’t have they heard it if it was part of the official presentation?
I probably am wrong, it doesn’t matter, I was just sharing an opinion.  But if getting abuse, sarcasm and ridicule from people who should know better is my reward then I just won’t bother any more.
So have it your own way, I won’t bother commenting on this thread any more.  Goodbye.


----------



## SkyGuy

sjmac42 said:


> I’m fairly confident they all are, hearing it from someone else that is.  Except the 1 or 2 people who actually spoke to this cast member of course.  They didn’t all speak to a cast member personally but are reporting it as if they did.  That’s enough to cast doubt on the validity of the information.
> 
> Exactly.  And thankyou.


Scott was at the same preview that Carlye was. He was just reiterating and agreeing with what she said. I was only pointing out that he didn’t directly link anything.


----------



## Disturbia

Kbrb said:


> This will help the standby lines not having a stream of people bypassing it repeatedly. Whole families booking repeated rides in tsm would cause huge standbys
> 
> It also confirms it’s not getting used at AK and  probably Epcot for me
> 
> Of course they can always introduce Disneygenie ++.



Wouldn’t it be Lightning Lane individual attraction plus (Like Magic Band+).  ‘Plus’ is starting to feel like a dollar sign.

We need a Genie minus to cancel all these pluses, otherwise my mathematically challenged mind is going to explode!

Wait- Genie Star *

Wish upon a genie star…


----------



## Dbktmc

Well, the fact that you can’t use the lightning lane more than once per ride makes it a no go for us.  I had planned on buying it for our 10 day trip because we hate to wait in lines.  Unfortunately, we don’t ride every ride but like to ride the same rides over and over.  I thought $15 was a high but ok price for our family.  Now, there is no way I would pay it.


----------



## snikki

With the new announcement I think stand by lines will move much quicker. We do plan on buying it but I’m also anxiously waiting to read trip reports and how people utilize it and what loop holes they find. We don’t go until late next year so lots of time to see.


----------



## shawthorne44

I agree with you on standby lines moving faster with no re-rides.  This is good news for those who weren't going to get G+ or were going to get it rarely.


----------



## Leight19

I slept on this and thought overnight. Am I the only one who thinks it’s only matter of time for genie++ where you can pay more to ride more then once? Maybe even a per ride add on fee?


----------



## snikki

Leight19 said:


> I slept on this and thought overnight. Am I the only one who thinks it’s only matter of time for genie++ where you can pay more to ride more then once? Maybe even a per ride add on fee?



Definitely. Everything right now is _introductory_. Lots of room to change things and add more.


----------



## snikki

shawthorne44 said:


> I agree with you on standby lines moving faster with no re-rides.  This is good news for those who weren't going to get G+ or were going to get it rarely.



Or for those that don’t do a lot of re-rides or use other ways to re-ride rides that didn’t include FP. There are certain rides we do ride over and over but we never were big FP refresh people. We got maybe an additional FP or two a day after our initial 3 but most days we didn’t even get 1 extra one.

We re-ride things since we go on longer trips (8-10 nights) and hit each park multiple times and utilize rope drop and end of the night short lines. We did ToT 4 times in a row late at night one trip. We were the last ride of the night too. We did the same with EE one morning. Same with TSM and Splash. We did all this without FP and I think we will continue even with Genie+.


----------



## mom2rtk

snikki said:


> With the new announcement I think stand by lines will move much quicker. We do plan on buying it but I’m also anxiously waiting to read trip reports and how people utilize it and what loop holes they find. We don’t go until late next year so lots of time to see.


Well of course they'll move quicker if fewer people are using the lightning lane. But they won't move faster than they are now. And they're still at a somewhat limited capacity. 

The biggest issue with this for me is that there is no longer anything on the horizon making me hopeful about making the parks work for us. We've already cut some Disney days off to head to Universal next time. I can see us turning that dial and adding more days there.

A friend just put this into great words for me. They don't *love* Universal as much. But they always seem to have more *fun* there.


----------



## DLgal

shawthorne44 said:


> I agree with you on standby lines moving faster with no re-rides.  This is good news for those who weren't going to get G+ or were going to get it rarely.



How are people coming to this conclusion that no re rides will lower standby waits? The Standby wait is going to be affected by the core number of Lightning Lane slots for any given hour. Let's just use 500 slots per hour for a big ride like Space Mountain, which has an hourly ride capacity of 2000 (giving us a 1:3 ratio of LL to Standby guests). That 500 number will be fixed, and it doesn't matter WHO uses the LL, just that 500 CAN. If the full number of LL slots gets booked every hour, the Standby line will be what it is.

The Standby line only becomes shorter in this scenario if Disney fails to sell enough LL to fill that 500 slots per hour.

All that rerideability will do is make it perhaps slightly more difficult to get a LL return time. It has no impact on the Standby lines.


----------



## mom2rtk

Leight19 said:


> I slept on this and thought overnight. Am I the only one who thinks it’s only matter of time for genie++ where you can pay more to ride more then once? Maybe even a per ride add on fee?


I 100% think that's where they are headed with it.


----------



## mom2rtk

DLgal said:


> The Standby line only becomes shorter in this scenario if Disney fails to sell enough LL to fill that 500 slots per hour.


That's the thinking.


----------



## DLgal

mom2rtk said:


> That's the thinking.



So you're saying that by not allowing rerides, the Standby lines will be shorter BECAUSE no one will buy Genie+? Is that right?

I mean, it's a logical conclusion, but it's unfortunately way too optimistic. The same type of people who bought into the dining plan will buy Genie+. It will, to our chagrin, be a success, at least at WDW, where the FOMO mentality is strong among visitors. 

In my opinion, it will flop massively at DL because people will compare it unfavorably to Maxpass.


----------



## Grasshopper2016

I hate this new development (one lightning lane per ride per day).  

It's great for people who like to do everything once.  But many of us have our favorites (along with our list of rides that we don't particularly care for).  For us, much of the fun of a Disney trip comes from riding those favorites over and over.  

Yes, this will probably make the standby lines go faster.  But we saw from the peak crowds this summer (which were much lower than they will be when we finally put the pandemic behind us) that, _even with no fastpass/LL at all_, standby lines can get very long.  There are a lot of us out there who simply do not want to pay thousands of dollars for a theme park vacation when we have no choice but to spend much of the day standing in long lines -- or even slightly-less-long lines.  

This development seems to be more evidence that Disney is willing to alienate repeat and loyal customers in order to attract more once-in-lifetime visitors --- who are likely to want to try every ride once and don't yet have any favorites --- since those people tend to spend more on each trip.  

We have been over the pros and cons of that marketing strategy ad nauseam on these boards.  I'm in the camp that views it as short-sighted and unwise.  But, regardless of the wisdom of the strategy, it will do what it sets out to do: make Disney less desirable to those of us who have reliably given them large sums of money for years.  I think that Disney is playing with fire.


----------



## Grasshopper2016

DLgal said:


> So you're saying that by not allowing rerides, the Standby lines will be shorter BECAUSE no one will buy Genie+?


I think the standby lines will likely be shorter due to a combination of: (1) fewer people being willing to buy Genie+ now, especially in parks like AK and EPCOT that don't have that many rides; and (2) those people who do buy Genie+ going on fewer LL rides per day---at all parks besides MK, which has an unusually large number of rides---simply because there are not that many rides that they want to use Genie+ at, and they are limited to doing each one only once.  

In other words, without the re-ride ban, I would get Genie+ for EPCOT and go on TT and Soarin' several times in a row.  With the re-ride ban, it wouldn't be worth it to me to buy Genie+ for my EPCOT day at all.  And if I did decide to buy it, I would use it on maybe 5 total rides (Soarin', LWTL, TT, SE, Nemo?), rather than the 10 or more LL rides I would take if I could go on Soarin' and TT again and again.


----------



## Leight19

DLgal said:


> So you're saying that by not allowing rerides, the Standby lines will be shorter BECAUSE no one will buy Genie+? Is that right?
> 
> I mean, it's a logical conclusion, but it's unfortunately way too optimistic. The same type of people who bought into the dining plan will buy Genie+. It will, to our chagrin, be a success, at least at WDW, where the FOMO mentality is strong among visitors.
> 
> In my opinion, it will flop massively at DL because people will compare it unfavorably to Maxpass.


For me it’s more of an early peak behind curtain of what Disney is planning. My assumption, which may not be true, is they will dedicate less capacity to fast pass with this strategy then if they allowed unlimited. Part of this is because it sets hard limit on number of fp for users but also as you said because less will be willing to pay $15 for this then were willing to pay if unlimited.


----------



## DLgal

Grasshopper2016 said:


> In other words, without the re-ride ban, I would get Genie+ for EPCOT and go on TT and Soarin' several times in a row.  With the re-ride ban, it wouldn't be worth it to me to buy Genie+ for my EPCOT day at all.  And if I did decide to buy it, I would use it on maybe 5 total rides (Soarin', LWTL, TT, SE, Nemo?), rather than the 10 or more LL rides I would take if I could go on Soarin' and TT again and again.



The flaw in your argument is that you are forgetting that you are still limited by the "return window" availability. So, even if you wanted to, you won't be able to just keep riding Test Track and Soarin "several times in a row." This is not like the Universal Unlimited Epxpress pass where you you just flash a credential and walk into the Lightning Lane.

When Disneyland had Maxpass, you could maybe get away with 2 or 3 rerides per day. You couldn't just endlessly do back to back rerides.


----------



## DLgal

Leight19 said:


> For me it’s more of an early peak behind curtain of what Disney is planning. My assumption, which may not be true, is they will dedicate less capacity to fast pass with this strategy then if they allowed unlimited. Part of this is because it sets hard limit on number of fp for users but also as you said because less will be willing to pay $15 for this then were willing to pay if unlimited.



There is little chance that they dedicate less LL capacity due to this. They have set numbers for each ride based on hourly throughput and a ratio of LL to Standby that they have determined is the best to balance price and satisfaction for Genie+ purchasers. 

I suspect this rule is strictly about keeping traffic flowing around the park.


----------



## PepperjackDragon

Or it’s just a strategy to get people ready for Genie + Unlimited (Gold etc edition)


----------



## Grasshopper2016

DLgal said:


> The flaw in your argument is that you are forgetting that you are still limited by the "return window" availability. So, even if you wanted to, you won't be able to just keep riding Test Track and Soarin "several times in a row." This is not like the Universal Unlimited Epxpress pass where you you just flash a credential and walk into the Lightning Lane.
> 
> When Disneyland had Maxpass, you could maybe get away with 2 or 3 rerides per day. You couldn't just endlessly do back to back rerides.



Obviously, the availability of LL windows would depend on what percentage of ride capacity is allotted to LL versus standby.  If Disney allocated approximately 70% to LL (as was rumored to be the case with FP+), then I think it would be pretty easy to do multiple re-rides, if they were allowed. We used to do it all the time with FP+.  And I have heard many people say that they did it successfully with Maxpass.

And even if you’re right that I would only be able to get 2-3 re-rides, that still makes a huge difference.  That’s the difference between a user doing 5 LL rides in EPCOT and 8 rides—60% more.


----------



## Disturbia

snikki said:


> Or for those that don’t do a lot of re-rides or use other ways to re-ride rides that didn’t include FP. There are certain rides we do ride over and over but we never were big FP refresh people. We got maybe an additional FP or two a day after our initial 3 but most days we didn’t even get 1 extra one.
> 
> We re-ride things since we go on longer trips (8-10 nights) and hit each park multiple times and utilize rope drop and end of the night short lines. We did ToT 4 times in a row late at night one trip. We were the last ride of the night too. We did the same with EE one morning. Same with TSM and Splash. We did all this without FP and I think we will continue even with Genie+.



We weren’t fast pass+ refresh people either.  We just did our 3 morning, booked 4th before taking a break and coming back for ADRs and hopping on anything that had ok waits.  It was free though so we expected some advantage for paying.


----------



## snikki

Disturbia said:


> We weren’t fast pass+ refresh people either.  We just did our 3 morning, booked 4th before taking a break and coming back for ADRs and hopping on anything that had ok waits.  It was free though so we expected some advantage for paying.



I understand that. I was just trying to show there are other ways to redo rides without FP or G.


----------



## disneyseniors

mom2rtk said:


> What abuse? My guess is they're trying to hold back capacity to monetize additionally somehow.



mom2rtk:  I always loved your daughters wonderful photos, done in a series over the years.  It looks like you have been a big fan of disney, and Now, they have even gotten to you.  That should set off some alarms to WDWco, if they even care anymore.  This is awful, and our family is not going back, but they don't care because someone else will fill the gap.  And, THAT, is the problem.


----------



## elgerber

Do we know yet how we pay for it?  Will it just charge to the room, or will it be like mobile ordering, where you have to use a cc or type in a gift card every time?  I have a bunch of gift cards I want to use.


----------



## fly girl

DLgal said:


> The flaw in your argument is that you are forgetting that you are still limited by the "return window" availability. So, even if you wanted to, you won't be able to just keep riding Test Track and Soarin "several times in a row." This is not like the Universal Unlimited Epxpress pass where you you just flash a credential and walk into the Lightning Lane.
> 
> When Disneyland had Maxpass, you could maybe get away with 2 or 3 rerides per day. You couldn't just endlessly do back to back rerides.



Yes! This!! 

It is not like my family took all the MaxPass slot availability which I read pages ago when someone chimed in that they liked the one shot availability. Sure, I was a refresher, so we could get RSR or FOP again. It was there for anyone to grab. So what if I rode it already? I think the same reasoning should be with Genie+. If a slot is available and I paid the premium, I should be able to use it. This one and done is for the birds. There are many rides we don't go on, or don't need LL for (Figment, I am looking at you.) 

It isn't like G+ guest will ride it 5 times before a standby guest will get to ride. Not at all. And if I am not mistaken, with MaxPass you couldn't get the same ride back to back. (example: I couldn't ride TSMM, go on app to get another FP and get TSMM again. I could get it after I got a FP for something else like Incredicoaster.)  

I also do not agree with those that think the standby lines are going to move so much faster with this system. Have you been at a busy time with no FP+ or MaxPass? Lines are slow. We went to WDW during spring break and it was not enjoyable. I don't want to wait 45 minutes for a ride. I just don't. Been there, done that, and will pay a premium to not have to do it again. YMMV.

Unfortunately, Disney took away an important piece of that premium. Now the premium is subpar.


----------



## fabfemmeboy

DLgal said:


> So you're saying that by not allowing rerides, the Standby lines will be shorter BECAUSE no one will buy Genie+? Is that right?
> 
> I mean, it's a logical conclusion, but it's unfortunately way too optimistic. The same type of people who bought into the dining plan will buy Genie+. It will, to our chagrin, be a success, at least at WDW, where the FOMO mentality is strong among visitors.
> 
> In my opinion, it will flop massively at DL because people will compare it unfavorably to Maxpass.



That's partly it, but mostly because even if the same number of people buy Genie+ regardless, the total number of people who could be in the line would be dramatically reduced.

If everyone who has G+ can theoretically be in the LL at any given time for a particular ride, whether they've ridden it yet or not, then the LL will certainly have more people than if those same people can only use LL once for that ride.  Why? Because some people will use theirs earlier in the day and not be able to use it again, meaning they won't be in those lines later in the day.  Others will save their one shot for later in the day, meaning they won't be in the LL in the morning.  And so on, and so forth.  Because there will be fewer people in LL at a time than there would otherwise be, the SB lines will move faster than they would if re-rides were allowed.  However, the SB lines won't move faster than they have been without any kind of FP/LL/G+!*, so all of the complaints people had this summer about how long lines were and wishing FP were back? Not going to be fixed.  

I fully agree about DL though.  Especially because, unlike at WDW with FP+ where you had to pull three different ones, sometimes from different tiers, etc. and could only re-ride if you lucked out with a refresh after you'd used or burned those three...at DL I could keep pulling times for the same ride all day if I wanted - and I usually did.  Even on a crowded Saturday, I would get a couple FP on each of my favourite rides, and so did the people who had sprung for Maxpass.  Add in that most of the crowd at DL is locals who can just ride it next weekend if it's too crowded today, and add in that there's no Genie+ add-on for APs like there used to be for Maxpass, and I can't see anyone but a handful of tourists buying it.


----------



## jo-jo

I'm not happy about no rerides.    DH and I no longer go on anything faster than webway.   But if able. in the past might hit Buzz four times during the day.   At MK, we go on about 6 rides.     Not even every kiddie ride. Knees don't bend enough for tea cups and the like.


----------



## Disturbia

I think there should be one or two pre booked fast passes (Included for Resort Guests) for non Tier1 rides with high waits (eg one of the mountains, MMRR, frozen, Navi) so it frees up time and all the non genie+ users don’t need to rope drop.  Fast passes (when limited) spread out crowds.  The fast pass booking system is still being used by DAS.

Maybe genie will start granting wishes and give you an anytime pass for one ride.


----------



## MainMom

snikki said:


> With the new announcement I think stand by lines will move much quicker. We do plan on buying it but I’m also anxiously waiting to read trip reports and how people utilize it and what loop holes they find. We don’t go until late next year so lots of time to see.


Same! Anxiously waiting the reports on how to best maximize Genie+. Our trip is next June so I have time to get a good feel of it.


----------



## jodybird511

Jrb1979 said:


> Like I said, I think what it really comes down to is people don't want to believe it cause it's not what they want to hear.


Actually, some of us just don't really care that much.  It's going to be what it's going to be, regardless of my opinion.  There are definitely bigger worries that I have right now, so I'll just wait for the final word from Disney and move on with my life.  I hope rerides are allowed, won't be surprised if they're not.  I'll continue going to Disney either way and may or may not purchase Genie+.  Meh...


----------



## thptrek

Going in two weeks and every morning I am checking to see if Genie has come out. Would prefer it the first day of Genie is not our first day of vacation.


----------



## Disturbia

Don’t worry; I bet we will be the ginea pigs going first week of Nov. when they don’t have Halloween or Christmas parties going on during that week, so that’s usually when they drop bombshells (last year they changed ROTR procedure and I didn’t get notified).

I am not going to wake up every morning trying to scan my card into the system in dim light, swearing silently while trying not to wake up the kids and try to get 2 fast passes just because of the added stress (We can certainly afford it).

Disney needs to improve guest experience rather than finding ways to make it worse.


----------



## PepperjackDragon

Am I missing something? I did not understand any of this.


Disturbia said:


> Don’t worry; I bet we will be the ginea pigs going first week of Nov. when they don’t have Halloween or Christmas parties going on.
> 
> I now figured out that my tickets get blacked out at midnight and my credit card disappears so I don’t get Disney visa offers and notifications (incl the ROTR procedure change) that they send out at midnight.  I am not going to wake up every morning trying to scan my card into the system in dim light, swearing silently while trying not to wake up the kids and try to get 2 fast passes just because of the added stress (We can certainly afford it).
> 
> Disney needs to improve guest experience rather than finding ways to make it worse.


----------



## Disturbia

PepperjackDragon said:


> Am I missing something? I did not understand any of this.



I removed my IT issues rant; makes more sense now.  I kept getting some pop ups on this page and going back and forth and having to retype; accidentally deleted the Space220 issues we had a few weeks ago (IT crashes, re entering credit cards etc); issues I’m sure will repeat when genie+ goes live.


----------



## A Mickeyfan

It will be interesting to see Disney's bottom line profits adding LL Genie+. Fastpass was implemented so that Disney could make more money off of their guests. The philosophy behind it was instead of standing in a line, they could shop and eat.  Now with having to pay $15 per person plus an additional $5 to possibly $25 per person for E ticket rides, just how much does Disney expect the guests to continue spending on souvenirs and food? There's a breaking point for most people.


Edited to fix Genie price


----------



## scrappinginontario

A Mickeyfan said:


> It will be interesting to see Disney's bottom line profits adding LL Genie+. Fastpass was implemented so that Disney could make more money off of their guests. The philosophy behind it was instead of standing in a line, they could shop and eat.  Now with having to pay $20 per person plus an additional $5 to possibly $25 per person for E ticket rides, just how much does Disney expect the guests to continue spending on souvenirs and food? There's a breaking point for most people.


this is the WDW portion of the boards.  Genie+ will be $15/person at WDW and $20 at Disneyland.

Just did t want to cause any confusion in an already confusing time.


----------



## elgerber

thptrek said:


> Going in two weeks and every morning I am checking to see if Genie has come out. Would prefer it the first day of Genie is not our first day of vacation.


Ditto


----------



## katyringo

I have a weird feeling- could deff be wrong- that they will announce a start date for genie tomorrow. The 50th happened and now they need to keep momentum


----------



## A Mickeyfan

scrappinginontario said:


> this is the WDW portion of the boards.  Genie+ will be $15/person at WDW and $20 at Disneyland.
> 
> Just did t want to cause any confusion in an already confusing time.


I wasn't sure. I was hearing conflicting statements, sorry if I confused anyone. I knew this was the WDW portion. Still at $15 it doesn't change anything. I fixed my post


----------



## Disturbia

If we are paying for genie+, and we can add this feature to our tickets ahead of time and save our preferences, shouldn’t Genie+ be able to figure out if we want morning or evening passes and AUTOMATICALLY book our first pass AND LLIA pass?  Now that would be worth paying for.


----------



## twincruisers

Wait till you hear the anger when G+ books the first pass for Dinosaur when you have a DHS park reservation and locks you out for 2 hours for your next G+ reservation till 10am.

don’t trust AI to make your life easier.


----------



## Disturbia

twincruisers said:


> Wait till you hear the anger when G+ books the first pass for Dinosaur when you have a DHS park reservation and locks you out for 2 hours for your next G+ reservation till 10am.
> 
> don’t trust AI to make your life easier.


Ok I’ll ask Alexa to do it instead


----------



## John Hillin

I've read several articles about Genie + going live in October.   We are planning on going for a short trip with Park Days on October 22 & 23.   Has anyone read anything regarding how far ahead of time Disney will announce the day it goes live?  I can't find anything regarding this.   If anyone can point me in the right direction for more info it would be appreciated?    How is it added?   is it a separate app or part of "My Disney Experience" How does the park know that you have purchased the upgrade?  Thanks in advance.


----------



## erionm

Latest *speculation* is it will launch around 10/18.  It will be part of the MDE mobile app.


----------



## rmclain73

Yeah, the third week of Oct is what has been reported by several reputable blogs.  However if crowds continue to remain low then Disney may decide to continue to wait on roll out.


----------



## Jrb1979

rmclain73 said:


> Yeah, the third week of Oct is what has been reported by several reputable blogs.  However if crowds continue to remain low then Disney may decide to continue to wait on roll out.


They could waiting a long time to start it if tnahs the case.


----------



## CaptainAmerica

rmclain73 said:


> Yeah, the third week of Oct is what has been reported by several reputable blogs.  However if crowds continue to remain low then Disney may decide to continue to wait on roll out.





Jrb1979 said:


> They could waiting a long time to start it if tnahs the case.


I think it's pretty likely that they WANT to roll it out when it's slow.  You don't launch a new IT product under peak load (i.e. Christmas).


----------



## elgerber

erionm said:


> Latest *speculation* is it will launch around 10/18.  It will be part of the MDE mobile app.


That would be...fun...that is the first full day of our trip.  Goodness, that should be chaos.


----------



## MrBellatrixLestrange

PepperjackDragon said:


> This is a bit surprising as it suggest disneys primary focus is to reduce wait times and overall customer satisfaction, rather than profiteering


Pull the other one.


----------



## thptrek

elgerber said:


> That would be...fun...that is the first full day of our trip.  Goodness, that should be chaos.


DITTO, Not the 18th please


----------



## elgerber

thptrek said:


> DITTO, Not the 18th please


Let's go back to last weeks rumored 16th.


----------



## shawthorne44

CaptainAmerica said:


> I think it's pretty likely that they WANT to roll it out when it's slow.  You don't launch a new IT product under peak load (i.e. Christmas).



I agree with this.   During a slow time, they won't make much money.   But the people that do get it will be happy because the LL lanes will be fast, and those that don't will be happy because the standby won't be slowed too much.   

But, aren't they doing IA$$$ first?


----------



## wisblue

elgerber said:


> That would be...fun...that is the first full day of our trip.  Goodness, that should be chaos.



The rollout doesn’t have to create chaos because it might not require anybody to do anything.

Anyone who doesn‘t know anything about Genie and/or isn’t going to pay extra for Genie+ or IAS attractions should be able to go about the day just as they would otherwise.

If the parks aren’t too crowded, and not that many guests pay for the extras, the standby waits might not be affected that much.

It will be interesting to see what kind of notice they send out.


----------



## Sunelis

All Ears is reporting that Genie+ will only allow you to ride a ride 1 time per day in the Lightning Lane.
I don't know if I can link them here but here the quote I got from their article:

"...But, during a special preview event today, a Cast Member shared with us *guests will NOT be able to re-ride attractions with Genie+. *
This means that *guests using Disney Genie+ will only be able to “skip that line” at each attraction once per day.* Of course, you can still re-ride attractions, you’ll just need to hop into the standby line instead for the second (or third) go around. ..."

If that's true it drastically reduce the appeal of G+ to me,


----------



## Castlequeen5

Sunelis said:


> All Ears is reporting that Genie+ will only allow you to ride a ride 1 time per day in the Lightning Lane.
> I don't know if I can link them here but here the quote I got from their article:
> 
> "...But, during a special preview event today, a Cast Member shared with us *guests will NOT be able to re-ride attractions with Genie+. *
> This means that *guests using Disney Genie+ will only be able to “skip that line” at each attraction once per day.* Of course, you can still re-ride attractions, you’ll just need to hop into the standby line instead for the second (or third) go around. ..."
> 
> If that's true it drastically reduce the appeal of G+ to me,



I think you’re a few days late to the discussion.  This news has been a popular topic for at least the last 4 days!


----------



## Disturbia

wisblue said:


> The rollout doesn’t have to create chaos because it might not require anybody to do anything.
> 
> Anyone who doesn‘t know anything about Genie and/or isn’t going to pay extra for Genie+ or IAS attractions should be able to go about the day just as they would otherwise.
> 
> If the parks aren’t too crowded, and not that many guests pay for the extras, the standby waits might not be affected that much.
> 
> It will be interesting to see what kind of notice they send out.



I’ll never receive the notice even if they send one (didn’t get the ROTR change notice last year (no GET would believe me) and we arrived in the park looking shell shocked after seeing BGs gone).  So I’ll keep stalking these boards for updates.  I hadn’t checked for just 2 days while we were in the parks.


----------



## Boopuff

I'd guess that once the date for Genie has been established, Disney will be mass e-mailing guests with reservations explaining the process.  So I think it's just a waiting game until someone actually gets some hard and fast information.


----------



## shawthorne44

I wonder if the number of people stalking Disney forums has gone up recently?   
People coming to see if there is news.


----------



## DavidNYC

A Mickeyfan said:


> It will be interesting to see Disney's bottom line profits adding LL Genie+. Fastpass was implemented so that Disney could make more money off of their guests. The philosophy behind it was instead of standing in a line, they could shop and eat.  Now with having to pay $15 per person plus an additional $5 to possibly $25 per person for E ticket rides, just how much does Disney expect the guests to continue spending on souvenirs and food? There's a breaking point for most people.
> 
> 
> Edited to fix Genie price



And they likely just hit it for me (and doubly so if the rumor is true that Genie+ will only allow a single time per ride).  It's basically an announcement to me that I now need to spend $500+ extra for my trip with a guarantee that I'll be standing in line hours more than I previously had on past trips while having to micromanage what parks and rides I want to do in what order to even have a chance to be able to get a reservation for some rides and having no control whatsoever on what I'm given.  Just bought my first annual pass to Universal a couple weeks ago . . . I have a feeling I'm not the only one taking that route. 

No doubt this will add to their bottom line - they'll now just focused solely on the low information, high money spending crowd who will just shell out whatever they need to and just go whereever Disney tells them to go and not the experienced Disney visitor who knows what they want to do and how they'd prefer to do it.  How anyone thinks anything they're doing increases the ability to be spontaneous and increases flexibility is completely beyond me.  Great - I don't have to plan three rides per day a month in advance . . . now I just have to commit to my park sometimes months in advance and be up at 7 am each morning hoping I don't have make a split second decision whether I want the 1 pm return time they're sticking me with or whether I should skip that to try to find an earlier time on something else (oops - spend 10 seconds trying to think about it so now I'm locked out of the first option . . .).  For me - barring some major changes from what we're hearing - they've just made the park experience far far more stressful and less flexible.  [Yes - you can always just do standby . . . as you could have under the old system . . . and I'm not going to a park where that's what I'll be forced to do unless I just accept whatever they choose to send me to so they can benefit at my expense.]


----------



## GatorChris

DavidNYC said:


> Just bought my first annual pass to Universal a couple weeks ago . . . I have a feeling I'm not the only one taking that route.


----------



## Disturbia

Boopuff said:


> I'd guess that once the date for Genie has been established, Disney will be mass e-mailing guests with reservations explaining the process.  So I think it's just a waiting game until someone actually gets some hard and fast information.



I had reservations to HS last Nov 2nd or 3rd. Oct 31 they changed ROTR boarding group process. We were in the parks with 3 kids, so I didn’t check the ROTR part of the app; and didn’t check disboards (I had practiced diligently everyday leading up to the trip); never got any notification. I went back and checked my junk folder, push notifications, emails; nothing.

The other weird thing was I couldn’t place a mobile order at the milk stand, despite COVID restrictions the CM took my phone and tried before believing me.  The worst part was GET looked at me as if I was making this stuff up. This May I believe I figured out that my tickets were grayed out at midnight and I couldn’t look for dining. emailed guest services, they couldn’t care less and said they see notifications are turned on and I’m set to receive notifications.  Timon: why do I bother!

Disney Visa card also doesn’t get stored (I have to check blogs for resort offer links), so be careful if you have any of these issues-keep checking these boards for updates.


----------



## CBMom01

Disturbia said:


> I had reservations to HS last Nov 2nd or 3rd. Oct 31 they changed ROTR boarding group process. We were in the parks with 3 kids, so I didn’t check the ROTR part of the app; and didn’t check disboards (I had practiced diligently everyday leading up to the trip); never got any notification. I went back and checked my junk folder, push notifications, emails; nothing.
> 
> The other weird thing was I couldn’t place a mobile order at the milk stand, despite COVID restrictions the CM took my phone and tried before believing me.  The worst part was GET looked at me as if I was making this stuff up. This May I believe I figured out that my tickets were grayed out at midnight and I couldn’t look for dining. emailed guest services, they couldn’t care less and said they see notifications are turned on and I’m set to receive notifications.  Timon: why do I bother!
> 
> Disney Visa card also doesn’t get stored (I have to check blogs for resort offer links), so be careful if you have any of these issues-keep checking these boards for updates.


I have always had the issue with payment card not getting stored.


----------



## Boopuff

Disturbia said:


> I had reservations to HS last Nov 2nd or 3rd. Oct 31 they changed ROTR boarding group process. We were in the parks with 3 kids, so I didn’t check the ROTR part of the app; and didn’t check disboards (I had practiced diligently everyday leading up to the trip); never got any notification. I went back and checked my junk folder, push notifications, emails; nothing.


Yes but the difference being Genie will be a paid feature, not a "free" ride. So I'm still betting that those people with reservations on/around the release date will be notified (so they can bring extra cash!)


----------



## gharter

Sunelis said:


> All Ears is reporting that Genie+ will only allow you to ride a ride 1 time per day in the Lightning Lane.
> I don't know if I can link them here but here the quote I got from their article:
> 
> "...But, during a special preview event today, a Cast Member shared with us *guests will NOT be able to re-ride attractions with Genie+. *
> This means that *guests using Disney Genie+ will only be able to “skip that line” at each attraction once per day.* Of course, you can still re-ride attractions, you’ll just need to hop into the standby line instead for the second (or third) go around. ..."
> 
> If that's true it drastically reduce the appeal of G+ to me,


I guess I'm also late as I  missed this piece earlier.  I truly don't understand the concept behind this.
If I'm willing to pay $15 a day for this, what difference does it make as to which rides I try and use if for?
Hopefully they get a lot of feedback quickly about this and change it.  I would at least like to see it as FP+ where I could get a FP (in this case a LL) for whatever rides were still available.


----------



## Disturbia

Boopuff said:


> Yes but the difference being Genie will be a paid feature, not a "free" ride. So I'm still betting that those people with reservations on/around the release date will be notified (so they can bring extra cash!)



Disney has a way of making you feel like you’re asking too much nowadays.  I forgot I was actually a $$$$ sign in this regard.


----------



## DavidNYC

Disturbia said:


> Disney has a way of making you feel like you’re asking too much nowadays.  I forgot I was actually a $$$$ sign in this regard.



And judging from Disneyland where there are multiple reports their AP holders not being able to get reservations for weeks at a time or weekends for months in advance - it's clear they're willing to jack up prices for everything while making major miscalculations on what they can deliver.  (And the fact that they've blocked out AP holders there on days that they're still selling tickets to day guests is the perfect summary of their approach to everything now).  All that's left now is for another Disney media blitz on how all of these limitations and price increases they're imposing are actually major improvements in the guest experience . . .


----------



## gottalovepluto

Sunelis said:


> All Ears is reporting that Genie+ will only allow you to ride a ride 1 time per day in the Lightning Lane.
> I don't know if I can link them here but here the quote I got from their article:
> 
> "...But, during a special preview event today, a Cast Member shared with us *guests will NOT be able to re-ride attractions with Genie+. *
> This means that *guests using Disney Genie+ will only be able to “skip that line” at each attraction once per day.* Of course, you can still re-ride attractions, you’ll just need to hop into the standby line instead for the second (or third) go around. ..."
> 
> If that's true it drastically reduce the appeal of G+ to me,


I am most fascinated to see how this goes down at Disneyland where they spent 2 years training the general public to get used to MP. You could ride as many times as you wanted if FP were available, the more popular the attraction the longer you had to wait before you could pull another FP... I know this is a totally different system than MP but it will feel very similar so I think the limitations will stand out more.

Unless you’re a DLR AP holder apparently. If you can’t get into the parks no need to worry about G+


----------



## Disturbia

I’m ok Training if they’d give us free genie+ to try out.


----------



## gottalovepluto

Disturbia said:


> I’m ok Training if they’d give us free genie+ to try out.


Disneyland didn’t even give out refunds when they introduced MP and it died on people for hours on end. The only reason G+ would be free for training to the general public would be if IT screws up the payment systems


----------



## gottalovepluto

DavidNYC said:


> And judging from Disneyland where there are multiple reports their AP holders not being able to get reservations for weeks at a time or weekends for months in advance - it's clear they're willing to jack up prices for everything while making major miscalculations on what they can deliver.  (And the fact that they've blocked out AP holders there on days that they're still selling tickets to day guests is the perfect summary of their approach to everything now).  All that's left now is for another Disney media blitz on how all of these limitations and price increases they're imposing are actually major improvements in the guest experience . . .


... Woah that AP situation in DLR is a hot mess! There’s news articles on it it’s so bad. Idiotic to create so many different buckets. At least at WDW you have AP reservations available, or not. None of these buckets within AP buckets.


----------



## gottalovepluto

-


----------



## gottalovepluto

katyringo said:


> I have a weird feeling- could deff be wrong- that they will announce a start date for genie tomorrow. The 50th happened and now they need to keep momentum


Don’t go to Vegas this week


----------



## katyringo

gottalovepluto said:


> Don’t go to Vegas this week


Guess not! Lol!


----------



## Disturbia

gottalovepluto said:


> Disneyland didn’t even give out refunds when they introduced MP and it died on people for hours on end. The only reason G+ would be free for training to the general public would be if IT screws up the payment systems



So should I hope that my IT issues with my Disney Visa card not getting stored will actually be fixed after all these years!

But I didn’t even get the prebooking offer for Galactic Starcruiser…


----------



## elgerber

For what its worth..

https://www.kennythepirate.com/2021...I3miAHEU8isKh9aMokIOH_Ht11bqTgQuQa-GcOahaAJsQ


----------



## rmclain73

Official from Disney.


https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/genie/


----------



## elgerber

and this..
https://allears.net/2021/10/08/disn...kh4kXJ9I6KVxc-SkByAz4zk4ScqsIy94v6vE7cz35GyRs


----------



## gharter

Was hoping it would not roll out the week we are there. No such luck.  Not sure how much we will use it.  More worried what effect it will have on the wifi network which was tenuous at best.


----------



## elgerber

this is our second full day, I would have rather had it on our first full day.
I will be a genie-pig


----------



## Mike Mantis

Right smack in the middle of my trip...

Looks like you can add it to *new* ticket orders as an option but *existing* tickets need to have it added on a daily basis?

Very very serious question... How insane is this going to make the parks on launch day??? The thought of logging in from my hotel at 7 am using a brand new Disney system is just a recipe for IT failure.


----------



## elgerber

Mike Mantis said:


> Right smack in the middle of my trip...
> 
> Looks like you can add it to *new* ticket orders as an option but *existing* tickets need to have it added on a daily basis?
> 
> Very very serious question... How insane is this going to make the parks on launch day???


I don't think it will make the parks insane, but I worry about the app crashing.


----------



## jujubiee4

elgerber said:


> this is our second full day, I would have rather had it on our first full day.
> I will be a genie-pig


Please report back!  lol


----------



## DaniellePoppins

Has anyone read if its been mentioned yet how the Individual purchase works in terms of timing?  Like if I buy at 7am, but I'm not going to the park until later in the day is there a specific return time for it or can I just ride at any time.... like the old anytime fastpass used to work.


----------



## elgerber

at least now I can make a plan of attack for my days


----------



## Cj2017

All the bloggers will be attacking the parks the first week to show this off on youtube


----------



## Marionnette

DaniellePoppins said:


> Has anyone read if its been mentioned yet how the Individual purchase works in terms of timing?  Like if I buy at 7am, but I'm not going to the park until later in the day is there a specific return time for it or can I just ride at any time.... like the old anytime fastpass used to work.


It won't be like an any time FP. You will not be assigned a return time. You be able to choose from a list of available return times for IA$, similar to how you could choose FP+ return times.


----------



## Bibbobboo2u

Another Genie-Pig here.  Arrive Oct 17.  Aughhhhh


----------



## elgerber

Cj2017 said:


> All the bloggers will be attacking the parks the first week to show this off on youtube


ok perhaps I retract my statement, lord I hope they don't make miserable.


----------



## Bibbobboo2u

Cj2017 said:


> All the bloggers will be attacking the parks the first week to show this off on youtube


Oh poop - they will bombard the parks - NOOOOOOOOO!


----------



## jujubiee4

elgerber said:


> ok perhaps I retract my statement, lord I hope they don't make miserable.


No offense to vloggers but i like hearing reports from board members. I still hope
you report back.


----------



## OhDannyBoy

Is there anything official about only being able to book 1 per day each ride?

I can't find anything


----------



## MainMom

Looking forward to the reports of the genie-pigs. Good luck!


----------



## CWTC

And that is smack in the middle of our trip.  I am not sure how to express my feelings regarding this.  If it works, awesome. If not, barf.


----------



## Sunelis

I hope they fix all the launch bugs fast... I'm checking in on oct 30th.


----------



## monstermash23

Seeing the news hit the internet and came on the boards. Quick question, with Genie+ ride selections, do you only have the option of picking a “next available” time or can you actually select any available time you want for that day at 7am?


----------



## CBMom01

I'm actually kind of exited about this.  Mostly, I'm very happy that Safari isn't $LL!


----------



## JennSaint

Mike Mantis said:


> Right smack in the middle of my trip...
> 
> Looks like you can add it to *new* ticket orders as an option but *existing* tickets need to have it added on a daily basis?
> 
> Very very serious question... How insane is this going to make the parks on launch day??? The thought of logging in from my hotel at 7 am using a brand new Disney system is just a recipe for IT failure.
> [/QUOTE





Cj2017 said:


> All the bloggers will be attacking the parks the first week to show this off on youtube


this is what I’m afraid of ugh


----------



## StacyStrong

I'm curious how this will work with APs. Also annoyed that APs won't really see the benefit of the photopass, but still have to pay the same price.


----------



## Bibbobboo2u

CWTC said:


> And that is smack in the middle of our trip.  I am not sure how to express my feelings regarding this.  If it works, awesome. If not, barf.


Right there with you.  Arriving 10/17.


----------



## elgerber

do you think the bloggers will go all week, or just the first day?


----------



## dawnball

elgerber said:


> do you think the bloggers will go all week, or just the first day?


Livestreams all week. Answering all your questions, showing you just how it works and how long the LL lines are!


----------



## StacyStrong

Bloggers are there all the time. Honestly I don't think it'll be a noticeable difference with them spread out.


----------



## jujubiee4

Dis anyone else see  the report of the different prices for the Individual attraction selections?
Opinions? I was just adding up in my head the different prices if we go during busy time
next year. Then got a headache. Those prices will add up fast. Looks like we are standing
in line. lol


----------



## CWTC

StacyStrong said:


> Bloggers are there all the time. Honestly I don't think it'll be a noticeable difference with them spread out.


I hope you are right.


----------



## scrappinginontario

One question answered....it's availably through the MyDisneyExperience app


----------



## sndral

Congratulations to all of those who have been ‘volunteered‘ by Disney to be beta testers for their new system. Please report back, both those who pay for the privilege of being Genie-pigs & those who learn in real time how this impacts SB lines. I’m sure all will be smooth sailing, after all what could go wrong w/ an IT based system given Disney’s IT track record.


----------



## scrappinginontario

*List of Attractions included in Genie+ and those which will be LL.*


----------



## jodybird511

OhDannyBoy said:


> Is there anything official about only being able to book 1 per day each ride?
> 
> I can't find anything


I've been digging through and did not see this stated anywhere, but I haven't done my "super deep dive" yet.  Lol


----------



## elgerber

Didn't we think SDD was the 2nd choice at HS?


----------



## disneysteve

jujubiee4 said:


> Dis anyone else see  the report of the different prices for the Individual attraction selections?


I saw them. That would be a big fat NO for us. No way are we spending $25-30 for the 3 of us to ride Space Mountain, or $45 to get on Rise, or any of the other pay-to-ride options. If standby lines are long, we may never see some of those attractions again which I find incredibly sad. Hopefully Everest will at least keep the single rider line.

Disney is really working hard to make the parks less and less appealing.


----------



## peteykirch

Raw footage of Bob Chapek setting up the terms and conditions of Genie+


----------



## cakebaker

jujubiee4 said:


> Dis anyone else see  the report of the different prices for the Individual attraction selections?
> Opinions? I was just adding up in my head the different prices if we go during busy time
> next year. Then got a headache. Those prices will add up fast. Looks like we are standing
> in line. lol



This is the line I draw. I don't care what the ride is, I'm not paying per ride. $15 for 6 of us? No thanks.  I'm glad there are only a few we'll miss because I won't stand in long lines and I won't pay upwards of $100. Hopefully, the IA$'s in the MK and Epcot will be open during the evening magic hours, otherwise, we skip them. I could pay it, but I'm not about to. It's insane.


----------



## asumom

disneysteve said:


> I saw them. That would be a big fat NO for us. No way are we spending $25-30 for the 3 of us to ride Space Mountain, or $45 to get on Rise, or any of the other pay-to-ride options. If standby lines are long, we may never see some of those attractions again which I find incredibly sad. Hopefully Everest will at least keep the single rider line.
> 
> Disney is really working hard to make the parks less and less appealing.


Resist, we must!


----------



## igrsod

jujubiee4 said:


> Dis anyone else see  the report of the different prices for the Individual attraction selections?
> Opinions? I was just adding up in my head the different prices if we go during busy time
> next year. Then got a headache. Those prices will add up fast. Looks like we are standing
> in line. lol


If everyone stands in line, it will all work out just fine.


----------



## twincruisers

Ugh, I guess Oct 20-23 will be my test days. We’ll at least I get a few days before without G+/IA$.


----------



## Jonfw2

No cancellation of a lightning lane purchase is absolutely fair- they don't want people buying them and then walking up at their assigned time and seeing a 15 minute queue and then cancelling.


----------



## Cabius

I feel totally vindicated in my prediction that Kilimanjaro Safaris would NOT be an IA$ attraction.

Crowd control for that attraction is just miserable without using both queues, and that has to be a factor in Disney's selection process.

Otherwise, the list of IA$ rides is pretty much spot-on.


----------



## cakebaker

Jonfw2 said:


> No cancellation of a lightning lane purchase is absolutely fair- they don't want people buying them and then walking up at their assigned time and seeing a 15 minute queue and then cancelling.



That is if you consider having to pay $15 for a 3 minute ride to be fair from the get go. But yeah, you want to pay to ride, you shouldn't be able to cancel just because it wasn't worth the money. You knew that up front.


----------



## monstermash23

cakebaker said:


> This is the line I draw. I don't care what the ride is, I'm not paying per ride. $15 for 6 of us? No thanks.  I'm glad there are only a few we'll miss because I won't stand in long lines and I won't pay upwards of $100. Hopefully, the IA$'s in the MK and Epcot will be open during the evening magic hours, otherwise, we skip them. I could pay it, but I'm not about to. It's insane.



The price def bothers me. The concept of this whole thing though was where we drew the line a few months ago, but the prices coming out now just confirms that thinking for us. 

But what bothers me more is capacity incentives. Disney now has no incentive to constantly keep improving capacity issues with rides. No incentive to make lines “shorter” in a sense. Now, they actually have incentive to not incresse capacity capabilities. In fact, the more popular a ride and the less capcity throughput per hour should yeild them even more lightning lane purchases (or Genie+ purchases depending I guess).

I hope I’m wrong though because this is one of the areas that Disney (esp Walt - think Small World @ Worlds Fair) always exceled in - increasing capacity throughput creatively and making big innovations in that entire part of the ride/wait experience.


----------



## Jonfw2

cakebaker said:


> That is if you consider having to pay $15 for a 3 minute ride to be fair from the get go. But yeah, you want to pay to ride, you shouldn't be able to cancel just because it wasn't worth the money. You knew that up front.


I mean, anything financial isn't "fair" or "unfair".  It's a matter of whether you think it makes sense to pay for it or not.


----------



## DSLRuser

Cabius said:


> Otherwise, the list of IA$ rides is pretty much spot-on.



Except Space Mountain???

Now, in addition to my back getting destroyed every time I ride, I have $ money to remind me why I don't like this attraction.


----------



## MainMom

elgerber said:


> Didn't we think SDD was the 2nd choice at HS?


Yes! That’s what I saw in the rumors.


----------



## JenSop

Okay - so I just got the email!  October 19th is the day!

Surprised(ish) by some of the rides on the lists, but not too much.

I did click through to pricing for Lightning Lane, but was redirected and saw no sign of prices!  Anyone have any luck finding that info?


----------



## Jonfw2

AK will have the attractions with the least AND the most LL purchases.


----------



## DSLRuser

dawnball said:


> Livestreams all week. Answering all your questions, showing you just how it works and how long the LL lines are!



Marking them feel way more important then they are in the grand scheme.  Anything to feed their narcissism.  "look at me, I am in Disney and you are not"


----------



## Nick6300

Interesting that for ILLS$, Runaway was picked over SDD, FEA over TT, and EE over Safari. I'm sure they know which attractions command the longest wait times. Wonder if this was done to tempt you to buy the $15 G+... striking a balance in what they feel like people will pay for.


----------



## Tom_E_D

It's not a full list, but this article has some of the prices: https://www.wdwinfo.com/news-storie...ney-world-oct-19-weve-got-all-of-the-details/

See the third paragraph.


----------



## Cabius

DSLRuser said:


> Except Space Mountain???
> 
> Now, in addition to my back getting destroyed every time I ride, I have $ money to remind me why I don't like this attraction.


It's just to get people used to spending money in that area of the park, for when TRON opens (any decade now...)

But really, it had to be between Space and Peter Pan's Flight right? I imagine people will be more willing to pay money for a thrill ride whereas rides that cater to families with small kids make that a more expensive and less attractive proposition.


----------



## JenSop

Tom_E_D said:


> It's not a full list, but this article has some of the prices: https://www.wdwinfo.com/news-storie...ney-world-oct-19-weve-got-all-of-the-details/
> 
> See the third paragraph.



Thanks!  That's super helpful!


----------



## serenitygr

This changes my whole mindset of checking out October 17th. I’ve been dreading that day and feeling so sad about leaving- now I’m feeling like “See ya!”


----------



## _19disnA

Wonder how well their IT system will work the first day Genie goes live?


----------



## Figment1990

I just got my genie+ announcement email from my travel agent and in following the links to Disney info I am reading the following regarding Ia$:

”this option will be available for all guests - with or without Disney Genie+ service - and let’s you choose a time to arrive at up to 2 attractions each day (booked one at a time).

So, my reading of that is that I can only purchase one of the individual LL selections until I use my second one As this is the same language that is used for booking Genie+ LLs also. does anyone have confirmation of that?

This particular piece surprised me. That will alter my plans if I WAS swallowing the price tags, it means I might not be able to expect to ride say, RotR and Remy in the same day and would have to set those park days up differently.


----------



## jujubiee4

Honestly it feels like our experience going to the County fair. You pay to get in. Go up
to ticket booth and say how much are the rides? The guy pulls up a chart and says " Well
depends on what you want to ride?" It feels soooo cheap.

At least there is still the option of standing in line I guess.


----------



## gratefulfred

lol at paying for space mountain. You couldn't pay me to ride space mountain.


----------



## moorish

Figment1990 said:


> I just got my genie+ announcement email from my travel agent and in following the links to Disney info I am reading the following regarding Ia$:
> 
> ”this option will be available for all guests - with or without Disney Genie+ service - and let’s you choose a time to arrive at up to 2 attractions each day (booked one at a time).
> 
> So, my reading of that is that I can only purchase one of the individual LL selections until I use my second one As this is the same language that is used for booking Genie+ LLs also. does anyone have confirmation of that?
> 
> This particular piece surprised me. That will alter my plans if I WAS swallowing the price tags, it means I might not be able to expect to ride say, RotR and Remy in the same day and would have to set those park days up differently.


To me that reads more like you would need to do two separate transactions for each ride but not that you have to finish a ride on one before you can book another.


----------



## Sandiz08

Yeah we are not paying for any of this, doesn’t sound too bad until you remember how much your hotel and tickets to walk in costed.


----------



## tsme

I knew this was coming but yet I’m still mad when the details are known.


----------



## gratefulfred

disneysteve said:


> I saw them. That would be a big fat NO for us. No way are we spending $25-30 for the 3 of us to ride Space Mountain, or $45 to get on Rise, or any of the other pay-to-ride options. If standby lines are long, we may never see some of those attractions again which I find incredibly sad. Hopefully Everest will at least keep the single rider line.
> 
> Disney is really working hard to make the parks less and less appealing.


Single rider line is going to have a toll booth on it. Exact Change only.


----------



## Cliffside

Am I missing something…have they published the costs for the individual attractions…the only thing I saw was that it would vary based on the day..
ugh..not that we will ever do that ..count me out

the regular lightening lane I might consider for MK depending on how many attractions people actually get on.

I think this whole program is just sad…nickel and diming people for things that were always included……I know they are a publicly traded company and are beholden to their shareholders which I am..but this just seems terrible…Im glad we are empty nesters now and doing all the attractions isn’t the biggest deal.


----------



## jujubiee4

Oh and I just love how they keep reminding you "Prices are subject to change".
Yes Disney we hear you..... loud and clear.


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

Cliffside said:


> Am I missing something…have they published the costs for the individual attractions…the only thing I saw was that it would vary based on the day..
> ugh..not that we will ever do that ..count me out


It’s kind of hidden in the FAQ and just gives examples, not complete details.


----------



## HopperFan

Mike Mantis said:


> Right smack in the middle of my trip...
> 
> Looks like you can add it to *new* ticket orders as an option* but *existing* tickets need to have it added on a daily basis*?
> 
> Very very serious question... How insane is this going to make the parks on launch day??? The thought of logging in from my hotel at 7 am using a brand new Disney system is just a recipe for IT failure.



This reads like you can do in advance ... not sure about AP.

" ... you’ll be able to purchase Disney Genie+ service on the day of your visit or purchase as an add-on to a theme park ticket by* modifying your existing ticket prior to arrival*."


----------



## princessfionasmom

Any mention of the launch of the DAS part of this?  Couldn’t find anything myself.


----------



## Cliffside

ENJDisneyFan said:


> It’s kind of hidden in the FAQ and just gives examples, not complete details.
> View attachment 611316


Thanks I see it now…but yuck

So am family of 4 in Hollywood Studios has to budget an extra $120 to ride Rise and have Lightening Lane for the day. How magical


----------



## 0FF TO NEVERLAND

Good luck to anyone who just wants to wait on the normal lines. Disney will do everything in their power to make you pay. I expect it to be slow as hell. You know it, and I know it

I will never get over having to pay for something that was a beautiful perk and free for everyone. I don't blame them. Everyone complains. Everyone hated it. Everyone screamed. Disney said" Yeah so what, you're still going to come anyway " Same with the nighttime shows. They don't care cause people will still come. Who in the HELL wants to get up everyday at 7 if you are not rope dropping to book this? I sleep in till at least 8:30-9 on Disney park days. So instead of 60 days before being stressed. Now we get to be stressed every morning of our trip

And quite honestly, anyone who pays for this, has no right to complain about anything Disney does to nickel and dime its customers. If you want real change, hit them in the pockets and just don't go. If we just continue to go, we're the fools who just complain and still take it.

In the end, it is what it is and we're probably going to just accept this new Disney chapek + era. Remember folks, once this works, it will only get more expensive.. and we will be saying the same thing..with the same result


----------



## R&RsMom

Another Genie-pig here. It hits on our last 2 days: Magic Kindgom and 2nd Hollywood Studios. We will buy Genie + for those days because of the parks we’ll be at, but I’m envisioning chaos. Hoping they update the app before the 19th so we can play with it a bit. nothing like trying to figure out how to buy and book at 7:00 am day of.


----------



## maggnanimouse

*"You can make one selection at a time throughout the day*—from classics like Haunted Mansion and thrill rides like Big Thunder Mountain Railroad to newer favorites like _Millennium Falcon_: Smugglers Run (experiences subject to limited availability).*"*

If there's no MaxPass-style cool down period where you can select another LL after a certain amount of time, I'm out.


----------



## butterscotchcollins

Okay I read up on the details and I’m actually MORE confused. It’s just so convoluted.


----------



## ShayBells

It still seems to only mention making one at a time.. anybody read or know any different?


----------



## asumom

StacyStrong said:


> Bloggers are there all the time. Honestly I don't think it'll be a noticeable difference with them spread out.


We were there a few weeks ago. Didn't notice any bloggers even though they are there all the time. Did see John and Kevin though..


----------



## ShayBells

maggnanimouse said:


> *"You can make one selection at a time throughout the day*—from classics like Haunted Mansion and thrill rides like Big Thunder Mountain Railroad to newer favorites like _Millennium Falcon_: Smugglers Run (experiences subject to limited availability).*"*
> 
> If there's no MaxPass-style cool down period where you can select another LL after a certain amount of time, I'm out.


You beat me to posting. I agree if there’s no period in between to make another selection and I have to wait until afternoon to even make one based on availability I’m out too.


----------



## Marionnette

ShayBells said:


> You beat me to posting. I agree if there’s no period in between to make another selection and I have to wait until afternoon to even make one based on availability I’m out too.


According to Scott Gustin, you can make another Genie+ selection if your current selection is 120+ minutes in the future.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1446566887157075975


----------



## ShayBells

Marionnette said:


> According to Scott Gustin, you can make another Genie+ selection if your current selection is 120+ minutes in the future.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1446566887157075975


I hope he’s right. That is a big time frame but better than nothing.


----------



## kmrobins03

Any mention on park hopping? For example, can I make LL request for MK in the morning and then at Epcot in the evening (after I use my MK LL of course)


----------



## menotyou21

Marionnette said:


> According to Scott Gustin, you can make another Genie+ selection if your current selection is 120+ minutes in the future.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1446566887157075975


I've seen this on other sites as well....saying it has been confirmed directly from Disney...FWIW


----------



## Kimrlav

Any information on Annual pass holders with resort reservations? Will I be able to add for the length of stay before arriving at the resort?  

We are only a party of two, so might try this at Animal Kingdom (even some of the shows are lightening lane attractions, poor move Disney) and Hollywood Studios. Now, I plan to take advantage of the Deluxe guest after hours for Epcot and MK, but would want to purchase to ride Remy, because that is not on the after hours attraction list. I feel for families and bigger groups, because this will be cost prohibitive, the VIP tour with a large group is starting to seem like a bargain.

Of course, my trip starts on October 20th -- looking forward to testing it out and reporting back the benefits, challenges, and failures.

Good luck to everyone.


----------



## hdrolfe

I was hoping this wouldn't start until after my trip Oct 25 - 31. I will be watching closely when it starts to see if we will need to use it 

My son's favourite ride is Space... having to pay for that will be really annoying.


----------



## ShayBells

Wait, can you have a Genie+ pick and a IA$ at the same time??

I think I am just getting more confused the more information I get.  .


----------



## kristenrice

We arrive on the 19th...
I was thinking about maybe getting the Genie+, but after reading about it, I am now more confused than ever and I am not about to throw money at something that I do not understand.  For my daughter and I to get it for our 5-day stay, that's $150 and I think we can stand in a few lines and save $150.  

I am more concerned about the app crashing on our arrival day...actually, ALL our arrival days, since we have a multi-split stay and have 3 different resort stays over 6 nights.  Disney's wi-fi is never going to be able to support all of the increased usage unless it has received a MAJOR upgrade that we don't know about.


----------



## DisSurfer878

sndral said:


> Congratulations to all of those who have been ‘volunteered‘ by Disney to be beta testers for their new system. Please report back, both those who pay for the privilege of being Genie-pigs & those who learn in real time how this impacts SB lines. I’m sure all will be smooth sailing, after all what could go wrong w/ an IT based system given Disney’s IT track record.


More like "volun-told"!!! Good luck all


----------



## ShelsGoingToDisney

Well sorry to my neighbors for the giant F&&&&&&&R%%$%^%%!!!! that was just screamed. We're going 10/16-10/23. At least we have an HS & MK day before it starts and are at Ecot for launch day. I just anticipate the whole IT glitchy nightmare (which you know they'll have!) will resonate throughout the whole park whether you purchase or not.

Not a chance in heck I would ever pay the premium pricing for individual rides. I love Disney but I am not insane enough to indulge in that. I might consider the LL but I want to see how it plays out before hitting purchase. I don't want to get up at 7 AM and be on my phone, we don't like rope drop, and I'll be darned if I am paying that kind of money x's 4 to get there and find out I can't even book a single ride until he evening for they're all booked or something. I am NOT happy to be a genie-pig!

I used to try an explain my love of going to Disneyworld by saying yes, it may be expensive but at least it's an all-in-one price, unlike other carnivals or theme parks that nickel and dime you. Those days are dead I guess!


----------



## DisSurfer878

disneysteve said:


> I saw them. That would be a big fat NO for us. No way are we spending $25-30 for the 3 of us to ride Space Mountain, or $45 to get on Rise, or any of the other pay-to-ride options. If standby lines are long, we may never see some of those attractions again which I find incredibly sad. Hopefully Everest will at least keep the single rider line.
> 
> Disney is really working hard to make the parks less and less appealing.


Can I just say..... it makes me nervous that people are going to actively start trying to abuse the DAS system. Like, I can see the Youtube video titles now "HOW TO RIDE IN THE LIGHTNING LANE... FOR FREE!!!!!!"


----------



## gharter

OhDannyBoy said:


> Is there anything official about only being able to book 1 per day each ride?
> 
> I can't find anything


I can't find where I read that, but I've read that in multiple places that at roll out, you can use LL for each attraction only once.  Maybe that will change later.


----------



## gharter

That will be our 3rd day, don't think it will be pretty.  Will it crash before or after my time to get a VQ time?


----------



## jujubiee4

Kimrlav said:


> We are only a party of two, so might try this at Animal Kingdom *(even some of the shows are lightening lane attractions, *



You got to be kidding?


----------



## thptrek

Our first day. Hope the app will be available soon. Would like to review and download it before we get to the park. We will buy Genie+ and definitely for FOP, ROTR and Remy.


----------



## aeasterling

I didn't see anything that Indicated you could only use LL once per ride, as it's been rumored.  I hope that we can repeat rides.  

We are there 23-31.  I guess I will need to decide if I'm buying this.


----------



## thptrek

Starts first day of our vacation. Bring it. We are especially excited for the  pay per ride option.


----------



## luv2cheer92

StacyStrong said:


> I'm curious how this will work with APs. Also annoyed that APs won't really see the benefit of the photopass, but still have to pay the same price.


This is the WDW side of the boards so just to make sure you are clear. Photopass pics are not included with Genie+ at WDW, only at DLR.


----------



## snikki

kmrobins03 said:


> Any mention on park hopping? For example, can I make LL request for MK in the morning and then at Epcot in the evening (after I use my MK LL of course)



*With Disney Genie+, you can select Lightning Lane arrival windows across multiple theme parks for those who have the Park Hopper option. *

I read that above on the Disney parks post. You can only pick the next available time so I have to see how this would work. Do I wait until I’m the park. Do I check periodically while I’m in my first park.


----------



## PixieT78

I am sorry for those of you who are arriving this year after Genie + will be implemented.  This pricing is seriously making me seriously think about our year of Disney plan.


----------



## luv2cheer92

PixieT78 said:


> I am sorry for those of you who are arriving this year after Genie + will be implemented.  This pricing is seriously making me seriously think about our year of Disney plan.


If anything it is making me more excited for my early January trip.


----------



## gharter

aeasterling said:


> I didn't see anything that Indicated you could only use LL once per ride, as it's been rumored.  I hope that we can repeat rides.
> 
> We are there 23-31.  I guess I will need to decide if I'm buying this.


Disney Food Blog was on e site that reported this a few days ago.  I've seen it on other site as well.
Have not seen it officially posted on Disney, but that information was part of a media day.


----------



## Tom_E_D

jujubiee4 said:


> You got to be kidding?


You could get a fastpass for many shows. Now you'll be able to use Genie+ for those shows. I haven't checked the lists side-by-side, but imagine you'll be able to use either Genie+ or ILL$ for everything for which you could have used a fastpass (excepting, of course, attractions that haven't yet reopened).


----------



## kanerf

Lightning will probably worth like Fastpass used to.  You cannot get another Lightning Lane reservation until your first one has been used.


----------



## ChanaC

Not to beat a dead horse, but I feel really sorry for the casual Disney-going family because this is just so complicated. Even the changing IA prices make it a headache to plan in advance. Like here in this thread people are already trying to figure things out, but we are such a small percentage of the amount of people who actually visit the park. I'm imagining there will lots of people fumbling around on their phones in front of attractions trying to figure out what LL is, where FP went, and what the hell they have to pay to use it, that is if all the LL passes aren't already "sold" out, like how FP got scooped up really quickly on busy days. And I can't imagine how extra complicated this is for guests who don't speak English. I know there is a WDW website in Spanish and Portuguese (and maybe some other languages?), but for a lot of other people this is going to be a really complicated thing to figure out.

All that being said, I'm really interested to see how this works out and if the IA prices are worth. I'm planning a short trip in December and the only IA I can see us buying might be Remy, because we are planning on park hopping to Epcot midday so we wouldn't be able to get in the free boarding group. I'm also going with a massive SW fan who has been on RotR once, but I can see him wanting to buy a IA for that again. Someone joked about all the bloggers being in the parks, but I would actually like to see what some of them do with LL and how to best utilize it, if it even really needs to be utilized.


----------



## Cabius

ChanaC said:


> Not to beat a dead horse, but I feel really sorry for the casual Disney-going family because this is just so complicated.


Yeah, the business answer is almost always to make things more complex, offer more choice, so you can better segment and monetize your customers (turn them upside down and shake them until all the money comes out).

But even if you’re happy to pay more to get more, the sheer complexity of it all is a bad guest experience for many.


----------



## Farro

Starts the day before we get there.   

We will probably try it one day for each park. We are there 9 days, definitely not purchasing every day.


----------



## PCFriar80




----------



## coinbeach45

I have a question about multiple parties. My husband and I are traveling with my Aunt and Uncle who are staying at a different hotel (all of us are on property). We are connected in MDE as friends. Will I be able to purchase the rides that have the extra price (like FOP) for all of us, but charge me and my husband on our credit card and my aunt and uncle on their credit card?  Thanks!


----------



## Jonfw2

To all the good folks saying “I won’t pay for this”.

Exceptional. Do not pay for this. Huzzah.


----------



## loves to dive

I'll be there in Dec. so will be testing out the stand by lines.   I really don't anticipate needing Genie + but I'm (and my son as well)  one who really doesn't mind waiting in line.   I'll be there the week of Dec. 12th which is about a week before the holiday crowds get too bad so we shall see.


----------



## Kimrlav

jujubiee4 said:


> You got to be kidding?


Maybe, I am wrong, but thought noticed that the bird show was a lane attraction, plus the safari. It is a must do, but my mother is elderly and has an auto-immune disease. For an extra $30 for one day, after spending on the flight and hotel room -- want to enjoy the trip, so will bite the bullet and purchase for the AK day. Very disappointed with this program.


----------



## JMommyof3

Am I reading it correctly that if you have EXISTING tickets, you can do 1 day add on but for NEW tix/reservations, it will be required for the entire trip.  We are primarily Disneyland people and are planning a trip over NYE so it might be worth it to buy tix now and reserve so we aren't locked into the "entire trip" rule.


----------



## jhlmendez

just a few days before our arrival on 10/23.  was getting used to the idea of just having stand-by available (especially w/ the recent drop in projected crowd levels from TB) but am now nervous about how this could impact line waits overall.  right now, not planning to get genie+ at all but may spring for an IA$ if we have trouble riding RoR or Remy.  other than that, between early entries, extended hours, and boo bash, i have been pretty confident of being able to ride our other priorities and do not appreciate new wrenches being thrown around my plans.

will be anxiously checking these boards for updates in the days before our arrival.


----------



## jujubiee4

Kimrlav said:


> Maybe, I am wrong, but thought noticed that the bird show was a lane attraction, plus the safari. It is a must do, but my mother is elderly and has an auto-immune disease. For an extra $30 for one day, after spending on the flight and hotel room -- want to enjoy the trip, so will bite the bullet and purchase for the AK day. Very disappointed with this program.


 You are correct. Before you could use fast pass for a show. I guess I was getting LL confused with 
the $IAS price per ride.  Thinking you had to pay individually to watch a show. I guess that is next.


----------



## Mcbruns

StacyStrong said:


> Bloggers are there all the time. Honestly I don't think it'll be a noticeable difference with them spread out.



Agree -- I don't think vloggers/bloggers will make any crowd difference


----------



## Marionnette

aeasterling said:


> I didn't see anything that Indicated you could only use LL once per ride, as it's been rumored.  I hope that we can repeat rides.
> 
> We are there 23-31.  I guess I will need to decide if I'm buying this.


I don't know if you're looking for something official from Disney but Scott is a pretty reliable source.

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1446566767720083459


----------



## luv2cheer92

JMommyof3 said:


> Am I reading it correctly that if you have EXISTING tickets, you can do 1 day add on but for NEW tix/reservations, it will be required for the entire trip.  We are primarily Disneyland people and are planning a trip over NYE so it might be worth it to buy tix now and reserve so we aren't locked into the "entire trip" rule.


Not required. If you want to buy it ahead of time, you have to add it on to your package, then it will be added to every day. But you would still have the option of adding it to individual days, but that would need to be done day of.


----------



## luv2cheer92

Jonfw2 said:


> To all the good folks saying “I won’t pay for this”.
> 
> Exceptional. Do not pay for this. Huzzah.


Yes. Make the waits even shorter for those of us that do.


----------



## Sydnerella

JMommyof3 said:


> Am I reading it correctly that if you have EXISTING tickets, you can do 1 day add on but for NEW tix/reservations, it will be required for the entire trip.  We are primarily Disneyland people and are planning a trip over NYE so it might be worth it to buy tix now and reserve so we aren't locked into the "entire trip" rule.



No, see highlight below from the FAQ. This isnt specific to previously purchased or new tickets.


----------



## Ariel620

Marionnette said:


> According to Scott Gustin, you can make another Genie+ selection if your current selection is 120+ minutes in the future.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1446566887157075975



If I'm reading Scott Gustin's words correctly, then your comment is not true.  You write current selection 120 min in the future, he writes 120 min from the booking time.  Those aren't the same thing.

Ie. At 7am you book SDD, but you don't get the timeslot until 1pm.  But at 9am you can book RNR for 10am, then after you ride that at 10am you can book TOT at 11am, then after your ride that you can book MSFR for 4pm, Then finally go ride that first ride you booked (SDD at 1pm).... and keep booking.

This is the way MaxPass worked at DL too.  This is all very confusing, but I think this is what Scott Gustin meant (and makes sense because it worked that way at DL).


----------



## Kimrlav

jujubiee4 said:


> You are correct. Before you could use fast pass for a show. I guess I was getting LL confused with
> the $IAS price per ride.  Thinking you had to pay individually to watch a show. I guess that is next.


My problem is Fast pass was a free service, but Genie + is a paid service. I feel like a theme park ticket should be enough for getting a seat at a show.  Not a deal breaker for my small traveling party, but still is just seems un-Disney like.


----------



## luv2cheer92

Kimrlav said:


> My problem is Fast pass was a free service, but Genie + is a paid service. I feel like a theme park ticket should be enough for getting a seat at a show.  Not a deal breaker for my small traveling party, but still is just seems un-Disney like.


Nothing is saying you need an LL to get into a show. You can still walk in, just like you could when they had FPs.


----------



## Marionnette

Ariel620 said:


> If I'm reading Scott Gustin's words correctly, then your comment is not true.  You write current selection 120 min in the future, he writes 120 min from the booking time.  Those aren't the same thing.
> 
> Ie. At 7am you book SDD, but you don't get the timeslot until 1pm.  But at 9am you can book RNR for 10am, then after you ride that at 10am you can book TOT at 11am, then after your ride that you can book MSFR for 4pm, Then finally go ride that first ride you booked (SDD at 1pm).... and keep booking.
> 
> This is the way MaxPass worked at DL too.  This is all very confusing, but I think this is what Scott Gustin meant (and makes sense because it worked that way at DL).


I think there's a big difference between DL and WDW. At WDW, parks have different opening times.  Epcot doesn't even open until 11 AM most days. If I'm understanding what you're saying, I could book an Epcot attraction at 7 AM (which would be for no earlier than 11 AM) and then grab another Genie+ at 9 AM when Epcot still has not opened.


----------



## luv2cheer92

Marionnette said:


> I think there's a big difference between DL and WDW. At WDW, parks have different opening times.  Epcot doesn't even open until 11 AM most days. If I'm understanding what you're saying, I could book an Epcot attraction at 7 AM (which would be for no earlier than 11 AM) and then grab another Genie+ at 9 AM when Epcot still has not opened.


This has been the exact suspicion all along.


----------



## vicarrieous

luv2cheer92 said:


> This has been the exact suspicion all along.



But isn't Genie+ booking start time at park open and IAS at 7am? Making this null. Or did they announce you can book Genie+ at 7


----------



## sndral

Kimrlav said:


> Maybe, I am wrong, but thought noticed that the bird show was a lane attraction, plus the safari. It is a must do, but my mother is elderly and has an auto-immune disease. For an extra $30 for one day, after spending on the flight and hotel room -- want to enjoy the trip, so will bite the bullet and purchase for the AK day. Very disappointed with this program.


I’ve never had a problem using SB to see the bird show & I watch it every trip, so unless it’s very crowded I don’t see much need to get G+ lightning lane access to see that show. Kilimanjaro Safari can have a long wait, though, so if you want to avoid that line you may be stuck depending on crowd level.


----------



## luv2cheer92

vicarrieous said:


> But isn't Genie+ booking start time at park open and IAS at 7am? Making this null. Or did they announce you can book Genie+ at 7


They announced quite a while ago that you could book your first Genie+ ride at 7.


----------



## vicarrieous

luv2cheer92 said:


> They announced quite a while ago that you could book your first Genie+ ride at 7.


Interesting. I had it that your IAS was at 7AM for resort guests and Genie+ at park open. I guess that does pose a problem for many parks that open at 9am or later. You can definitely have two queued up.


----------



## luv2cheer92

vicarrieous said:


> Interesting. I had it that your IAS was at 7AM for resort guests and Genie+ at park open.


This is from August.
https://blogmickey.com/2021/08/gues...y-genie-starting-at-midnight-on-day-of-visit/


----------



## vicarrieous

luv2cheer92 said:


> This is from August.
> https://blogmickey.com/2021/08/gues...y-genie-starting-at-midnight-on-day-of-visit/



Thanks for that. Seriously, Disney needs to get off the 7am starting mark. Too much all at once.


----------



## MainMom

jujubiee4 said:


> You got to be kidding?



The drawing experience is Genie+. I think they added it to make AK look like there were more offerings.


----------



## DWillowBay

Ariel620 said:


> If I'm reading Scott Gustin's words correctly, then your comment is not true.  You write current selection 120 min in the future, he writes 120 min from the booking time.  Those aren't the same thing.
> 
> Ie. At 7am you book SDD, but you don't get the timeslot until 1pm.  But at 9am you can book RNR for 10am, then after you ride that at 10am you can book TOT at 11am, then after your ride that you can book MSFR for 4pm, Then finally go ride that first ride you booked (SDD at 1pm).... and keep booking.
> 
> This is the way MaxPass worked at DL too.  This is all very confusing, but I think this is what Scott Gustin meant (and makes sense because it worked that way at DL).


Yep.   You got it!   You can "stack" your G+ ride reservations like you used to "stack" MaxPass in DL.   I think once people get the hang of this, they'll like this system.   But...I understand... if you've never experienced something, it feels uncertain.   We arrive 10-23 and I was hoping for a few more days lead time to 'work the bugs out'...but.... hopefully they're just bothersome flies and not something that stings!!


----------



## luv2cheer92

MainMom said:


> The drawing experience is Genie+. I think they added it to make AK look like there were more offerings.


The last few times I've been there (including last week) I had to wait for the next round. Its popular.


----------



## Mcbruns

hdrolfe said:


> I was hoping this wouldn't start until after my trip Oct 25 - 31. I will be watching closely when it starts to see if we will need to use it
> 
> My son's favourite ride is Space... having to pay for that will be really annoying.



Same and same! Our dates are similar and my daughters love Space.


----------



## JMommyof3

Ariel620 said:


> If I'm reading Scott Gustin's words correctly, then your comment is not true.  You write current selection 120 min in the future, he writes 120 min from the booking time.  Those aren't the same thing.
> 
> Ie. At 7am you book SDD, but you don't get the timeslot until 1pm.  But at 9am you can book RNR for 10am, then after you ride that at 10am you can book TOT at 11am, then after your ride that you can book MSFR for 4pm, Then finally go ride that first ride you booked (SDD at 1pm).... and keep booking.
> 
> This is the way MaxPass worked at DL too.  This is all very confusing, but I think this is what Scott Gustin meant (and makes sense because it worked that way at DL).


Theoretically, it all sounds exactly like MP except the 1x per day.  But I'm good with that since we don't normally ride many rides more than once anyway and if we did it's because there was a MP available at that moment.  Except for GOTG, that's a must do multiple times a day.


----------



## ShayBells

Anyone know if Mission Space is considered one ride or will you be able to get one LL for green and one LL for orange on the same day?


----------



## Jwaire

ShayBells said:


> Anyone know if Mission Space is considered one ride or will you be able to get one LL for green and one LL for orange on the same day?



It looks like on the chart, it's just 1 ride. And you select orange or green within the attraction. What happens when you just paid $75 for your family of 5 to ride Rise of the Resistance and it goes down? It says no refunds.


----------



## wisblue

DWillowBay said:


> Yep.   You got it!   You can "stack" your G+ ride reservations like you used to "stack" MaxPass in DL.   I think once people get the hang of this, they'll like this system.   But...I understand... if you've never experienced something, it feels uncertain.   We arrive 10-23 and I was hoping for a few more days lead time to 'work the bugs out'...but.... hopefully they're just bothersome flies and not something that stings!!



I haven’t come across the answers to a few things yet, and maybe they haven’t been answered.

For people who regularly park hop, stacking of the LL passes has less value, unless someone with a hopper ticket can get them for after 2 PM at a second park. For example, if we are starting at MK but planning to hop to Epcot, I might want to get a LL pass to Soarin or TT for late afternoon or early evening. I wonder if that is allowed. 

Similarly, I’d like to know if someone with a hopper ticket can purchase one of the IAS passes at a second park for later in the day. I could see buying a pass for Ratatouille for later in the day and hopping to Epcot to use it. Otherwise I’m not sure if I’ll be buying IAS passes for attractions we’ve done several times in the past. Maybe ROTR if they don’t return to the VQ.


----------



## Jwaire

The more I read about this, the more I think they are going after annual pass holders. Most annual pass holders are not going to purchase Genie+. However, I believe most regular vacation guests will eventually because it will be heavily promoted on the Walt Disney Travel Web site and through travel agents. It's sort of like park hopping. Many families don't even use it, especially now with the 2 p.m. limit, but they add it anyway because it's available and they don't want to miss out on anything. It conveniently drives up the average selling price per ticket for the Parks division.



wisblue said:


> Similarly, I’d like to know if someone with a hopper ticket can purchase one of the IAS passes at a second park for later in the day. I could see buying a pass for Ratatouille for later in the day and hopping to Epcot to use it. Otherwise I’m not sure if I’ll be buying IAS passes for attractions we’ve done several times in the past. Maybe ROTR if they don’t return to the VQ.



I did read somewhere that you could purchase IAS passes across multiple parks, but you are still limited to 2 per day. So you could do 1 for Space at MK and 1 for Ratatouille at Epcot with the assumption that you would be hopping later in the day.


----------



## Dreams&wishes

I wonder what are they planning to do when internationals will start to come in. We generally go to DW for 21 days and as a family of 6 it would be an extra $1890 without adding the extra tier 1 rides. Plus I really dislike having to stay contantly on the phone while I'm the park, I want to enjoy my time with my kids, it will take away from the experience. At least before it was all planned in advance. Now, by the sounds of it, it will be a daily task.


----------



## wisblue

Jwaire said:


> I did read somewhere that you could purchase IAS passes across multiple parks, but you are still limited to 2 per day. So you could do 1 for Space at MK and 1 for Ratatouille at Epcot with the assumption that you would be hopping later in the day.



Thank you. I hope that’s right. I don’t see us buying IAS at MK because we have done all of our favorite rides there many times. So, we’ll likely take our chances with Early Entry, standby, and Genie +, and anything we don’t get to will be there for our next visit to that park.


----------



## Jwaire

Dreams&wishes said:


> I wonder what are they planning to do when internationals will start to come in. We generally go to DW for 21 days and as a family of 6 it would be an extra $1890 without adding the extra tier 1 rides. Plus I really dislike having to stay contantly on the phone while I'm the park, I want to enjoy my time with my kids, it will take away from the experience. At least before it was all planned in advance. Now, by the sounds of it, it will be a daily task.



They won't be doing anything. They're going to assume you won't buy it because you're going to be here for 21 days. They have been pretty clear that it's a flat fee, not a package. You can add it to your tickets, but you're still paying $15 per day.


----------



## asumom

Tom_E_D said:


> You could get a fastpass for many shows. Now you'll be able to use Genie+ for those shows. I haven't checked the lists side-by-side, but imagine you'll be able to use either Genie+ or ILL$ for everything for which you could have used a fastpass (excepting, of course, attractions that haven't yet reopened).


If you rope drop FOP, you can get all the other rides in with minimal wait (some willeven be walk ons), then do all the shows and animal exhibits later.  And in the evening, redo some of your favorites.


----------



## EpcotPhoenician

Couldn't be any more excited that this launches the day after I leave.


----------



## ShayBells

Jwaire said:


> It looks like on the chart, it's just 1 ride. And you select orange or green within the attraction. What happens when you just paid $75 for your family of 5 to ride Rise of the Resistance and it goes down? It says no refunds.


The thing about this though is it’s two different entrances. Technically two different tapstiles. I really hope they don’t count this as one attraction. Though green rarely has a wait so it might not matter.
As for your question, nothing is confirmed but people are guessing you’ll get either a come back later or a different IA$ option.


----------



## Jwaire

My breakdown on Genie+ is this, assuming a busy park day like the summer:

*Magic Kingdom*? Worth it. 17 attractions, 5 to 6 of which generally have substantial wait times.
IAS—Mine Train? Yes; Space Mountain? No.
Alternative? Yes; You can ride both Mine Train and Space Mountain at 1) rope drop, 2) early morning magic hours or 3) extra evening magic hours (Deluxe Guests only)
Note: Space Mountain will likely go to Genie+ once Tron is online.

*Animal Kingdom*? Not worth it. 8 attractions, only 3 of which have substantial wait times.
IAS—Flight of Passage Yes; Expedition Everest? No.
Alternative? Yes; You can ride both Flight of Passage and Expedition Everest at 1) rope drop, 2) early morning magic hours or 3) extra evening magic hours (Deluxe Guests only). Expedition Everest also has a fairly quick single-rider line.

*Epcot*? Not worth it. 9 attractions, only 2 of which have substantial wait times.
IAS—Ratatouille? Yes; Frozen Ever After? No.
Alternative? Mixed; You can ride Frozen Ever After at 1) rope drop, 2) early morning magic hours or 3) extra evening magic hours (Deluxe Guests only).
Note: Frozen Ever After will likely go to Genie+ once Guardians of the Galaxy Cosmic Rewind is online.

*Hollywood Studios*? Worth it. 12 attractions, 4 of which have substantial wait times.
IAS—Rise of the Resistance? Yes; Mickey's Runaway Railway? No.
Alternative? Yes; You can ride both Rise of the Resistance and Mickey's Runaway Railway at 1) rope drop, 2) early morning magic hours or 3) extra evening magic hours (Deluxe Guests only)
Note: They're throwing us a bone with Slinky Dog Dash being available on Genie+. Who slipped that by Chapek?


----------



## Violet Parr

Still wondering if we have to get Genie + for all days of our trip, or just individual days.


----------



## jvz82

Right in the middle of our trip! October 19th is our 3rd day, we have 3 more after it. I wonder how that will all work.


----------



## PixieT78

Kimrlav said:


> My problem is Fast pass was a free service, but Genie + is a paid service. I feel like a theme park ticket should be enough for getting a seat at a show.  Not a deal breaker for my small traveling party, but still is just seems un-Disney like.



this is exactly how I feel.  It just puts a bad taste into my mouth because I’m already paying for tickets/passes.  I don’t mind paying for Genie + but the individual LL seems like a kick in the gut.

that said, we’ll still likely go and pay it for our year of Disney but it definitely reaffirms that branching out for 2023 is a good idea.  But we don’t go until May for the first one so I have lots of time to learn the best way to do things so thank you in advance to everyone who reports back


----------



## disneyfan150

EpcotPhoenician said:


> Couldn't be any more excited that this launches the day after I leave.


Us, too! Well we actually leave the same day of the launch at 7 am.


----------



## HopperFan

MainMom said:


> The drawing experience is Genie+.* I think they added it to make AK look like there were more offerings.*



Festival of the Lion King, Finding Nemo, Bird Show all had FastPass+

The difference now is Nemo is not back yet, nor the Mickey & Minnie Meet.  Otherwise the Lightning Lane is the same as the FastPass+ offerings.



Kimrlav said:


> My problem is Fast pass was a free service, but Genie + is a paid service.* I feel like a theme park ticket should be enough for getting a seat at a show.  *Not a deal breaker for my small traveling party, but still is just seems un-Disney like.



It is. 

Seeing a show Standby when there was FastPass+ wasn't a problem. You might not get the show time of your choice or seated right up front but there was no problem seeing the shows.  There will be even less problem coming up because not as many people will purchase Genie+ as used FastPass+.  




Tom_E_D said:


> You could get a fastpass for many shows. Now you'll be able to use Genie+ for those shows. I haven't checked the lists side-by-side, but imagine you'll be able to use either Genie+ or ILL$ for everything for which you could have used a fastpass (excepting, of course, attractions that haven't yet reopened).



Yup.  This is legit FastPass+ under a new name, with no advance booking (which should be a positive the day of for getting Genie+ times and for Standby) but now fee based.  I don't understand all the angst that now you can't do anything unless you pay for this.


----------



## katyringo

The one Twitter guy posted here is the only place I'm seeing the 120 minute rule but if that is true i very similar to Maxpass.

for park hoping with maxpass it let you chose the park you wished to book in.. so they already have that built in. Of course the difference now is the 1pm time. I am curious how that will work too!


----------



## masupo

Jwaire said:


> My breakdown on Genie+ is this, assuming a busy park day like the summer:
> 
> *Magic Kingdom*? Worth it. 17 attractions, 5 to 6 of which generally have substantial wait times.
> IAS—Mine Train? Yes; Space Mountain? No.
> Alternative? Yes; You can ride both Mine Train and Space Mountain at 1) rope drop, 2) early morning magic hours or 3) extra evening magic hours (Deluxe Guests only)
> Note: Space Mountain will likely go to Genie+ once Tron is online.
> 
> *Animal Kingdom*? Not worth it. 8 attractions, only 3 of which have substantial wait times.
> IAS—Flight of Passage Yes; Expedition Everest? No.
> Alternative? Yes; You can ride both Flight of Passage and Expedition Everest at 1) rope drop, 2) early morning magic hours or 3) extra evening magic hours (Deluxe Guests only). Expedition Everest also has a fairly quick single-rider line.
> 
> *Epcot*? Not worth it. 9 attractions, only 2 of which have substantial wait times.
> IAS—Ratatouille? Yes; Frozen Ever After? No.
> Alternative? Mixed; You can ride Frozen Ever After at 1) rope drop, 2) early morning magic hours or 3) extra evening magic hours (Deluxe Guests only).
> Note: Frozen Ever After will likely go to Genie+ once Guardians of the Galaxy Cosmic Rewind is online.
> 
> *Hollywood Studios*? Worth it. 12 attractions, 4 of which have substantial wait times.
> IAS—Rise of the Resistance? Yes; Mickey's Runaway Railway? No.
> Alternative? Yes; You can ride both Rise of the Resistance and Mickey's Runaway Railway at 1) rope drop, 2) early morning magic hours or 3) extra evening magic hours (Deluxe Guests only)
> Note: They're throwing us a bone with Slinky Dog Dash being available on Genie+. Who slipped that by Chapek?



I like the breakdown and the chart is helpful. But until they announce deluxe evening hours at AK and HS, that's not yet an option.


----------



## luv2cheer92

Violet Parr said:


> Still wondering if we have to get Genie + for all days of our trip, or just individual days.


You can get them for just individual days. If you already have tickets, that's the only way to do it.


----------



## hou2009

Violet Parr said:


> Still wondering if we have to get Genie + for all days of our trip, or just individual days.


In the link above it says it's your choice.


----------



## Jwaire

Genie+ comes off as more reasonable and a better value. Personally, I would have rather Disney raised park tickets $10 than deal with another ticket add-on. But here we are.

I also don't fault Disney for wanting to recoup some of their development budget on Rise of the Resistance/Galaxy's Edge or the newer attractions. While I don't want to encourage it, charging a little extra for premium access to a 75+ million dollar attraction is OK with me. However, I do think there should be a family plan for both Genie+ and IAS. Asking a family of 5, 2 parents and 3 children, to pay $75 to ride Rise of the Resistance is crossing the line.

My biggest problem is with the individual attraction selection list. Expedition Everest is a 15-year old high-capacity ride that was designed with FastPass in mind. Making it an individual attraction selection is ludicrous. Space Mountain is a 46-year old low-capacity legacy ride and belongs on the Genie+ list also. Disney purposely chose these two attractions because they didn't have anything else to offer and they wanted individual attraction selection to include 2 rides at each park. That's more a reflection on the lack of development in the parks over the last 15-20 years than the popularity of these two attractions.

Edit: Galaxy's Edge cost Disney 1 billion dollars, not just ROR.


----------



## jo-jo

I'm not liking this.   I have enough problems ordering a pizza on the phone.  Never mind doing a whole day, keeping track, etc.

But really, the only park it would be good  for us would be MK.


----------



## rileyz

I cannot believe people are actually going to pay for this.  Maybe I’ve been so many times I just don’t care to and I won’t pay.  As soon as my daughter is of age and can pay her own way I’m out.  My husband and I met working for Disney but I’m over it.  Too complicated, not a vacation anymore for me anyways.  I don’t understand the obsession and money spent by people anymore, I just don’t get it.


----------



## Minniemoo15

I might pay for MK and HS, they seem to be decent value for our family. But Epcot and AK seem very doable without purchasing Genie+. We are DVC so will also take advantage of the evening hours and hopefully that will cut down on our need to purchase.

I will absolutely not pay for the Individual Attractions, however. $60+ for my family to ride Mine Train is crazy.


----------



## DisWeaver

rileyz said:


> I cannot believe people are actually going to pay for this.  Maybe I’ve been so many times I just don’t care to and I won’t pay.  As soon as my daughter is of age and can pay her own way I’m out.  My husband and I met working for Disney but I’m over it.  Too complicated, not a vacation anymore for me anyways.  I don’t understand the obsession and money spent by people anymore, I just don’t get it.



yeah, the Disney obsession is strange. I‘ve even heard there is places on the internet where people go to discuss Disney in their free time. They even create names and have pictures associated with Disney. It’s just so strange.


----------



## ShayBells

DisWeaver said:


> yeah, the Disney obsession is strange. I‘ve even heard there is places on the internet where people go to discuss Disney in their free time. They even create names and have pictures associated with Disney. It’s just so strange.



Where is this place you speak of? Is it a cult?


----------



## bookgirl2632

Okay, so now to decide what I’m going to do.  It debuts right in the middle of my trip.  I’m doing Epcot on the 19th, AK and MK on the 20th, MK on the 22nd, and HS on the 23rd.  I guess I’ll see how busy it is and how the lines are before I decide to purchase either Genie+ or IA$.  I’ll already have a week of park-going prior to this and a couple nights deluxe guest access to Epcot and MK.  So I may not have to invest in it.  We’ll see how it plays out.


----------



## rileyz

DisWeaver said:


> yeah, the Disney obsession is strange. I‘ve even heard there is places on the internet where people go to discuss Disney in their free time. They even create names and have pictures associated with Disney. It’s just so strange.


Check out how often I post since 2008 and then judge my “obsession”. Fights over tumblers?  $5000 for 2 nights at a Star Wars hotel? It’s not  for me but I do question what hole people are trying to fill in their lives.  I’ve been around long enough to see it go from fun and fandom to obsession.


----------



## btk2333

I will definitely use both Genie+ and LIghtning Lane for some days but not all of my park days.

I'm especially looking forward to being able to pay to ride Rise of the Resistance and not deal with the virtual queue.  I'd happily pay $30 for my son and I to ride that at a predictable time and move on with our day.  Since I've never done Remy, I'll pay for that one too.  The other Lightning Lanes would depend on the day and the rest of our plans. We paid for MaxPass at Disneyland and this system seems similar. 

My wife and I have a short trip coming up for Wine and Dine without the kids and I'm excited to be able to pay a little extra and get a lot more done than we otherwise would be able to.

We're going in February with the kids and in-laws and could see us buying this multiple days on that trip as well.

I'm excited to try things out in a few weeks.  I get limited vacation and time off and often would be happy to pay more to get more done


----------



## DisWeaver

rileyz said:


> Check out how often I post since 2008 and then judge my “obsession”. Fights over tumblers?  $5000 for 2 nights at a Star Wars hotel? It’s not  for me but I do question what hole people are trying to fill in their lives.  I’ve been around long enough to see it go from fun and fandom to obsession.


Maybe people are trying to ensure that the time they spend at the parks is enjoyable to  them? I’ve been around long enough not to worry about such things.


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

scrappinginontario said:


> *List of Attractions included in Genie+ and those which will be LL.*


This doesn’t say anything about stacking… This makes it look like if it’s 10 am, and the next G+ SDD LL is at 5 pm, then you’re not doing any other LL’s…


----------



## Jennasis

Jwaire said:


> My breakdown on Genie+ is this, assuming a busy park day like the summer:
> 
> *Magic Kingdom*? Worth it. 17 attractions, 5 to 6 of which generally have substantial wait times.
> IAS—Mine Train? Yes; Space Mountain? No.
> Alternative? Yes; You can ride both Mine Train and Space Mountain at 1) rope drop, 2) early morning magic hours or 3) extra evening magic hours (Deluxe Guests only)
> Note: Space Mountain will likely go to Genie+ once Tron is online.
> 
> *Animal Kingdom*? Not worth it. 8 attractions, only 3 of which have substantial wait times.
> IAS—Flight of Passage Yes; Expedition Everest? No.
> Alternative? Yes; You can ride both Flight of Passage and Expedition Everest at 1) rope drop, 2) early morning magic hours or 3) extra evening magic hours (Deluxe Guests only). Expedition Everest also has a fairly quick single-rider line.
> 
> *Epcot*? Not worth it. 9 attractions, only 2 of which have substantial wait times.
> IAS—Ratatouille? Yes; Frozen Ever After? No.
> Alternative? Mixed; You can ride Frozen Ever After at 1) rope drop, 2) early morning magic hours or 3) extra evening magic hours (Deluxe Guests only).
> Note: Frozen Ever After will likely go to Genie+ once Guardians of the Galaxy Cosmic Rewind is online.
> 
> *Hollywood Studios*? Worth it. 12 attractions, 4 of which have substantial wait times.
> IAS—Rise of the Resistance? Yes; Mickey's Runaway Railway? No.
> Alternative? Yes; You can ride both Rise of the Resistance and Mickey's Runaway Railway at 1) rope drop, 2) early morning magic hours or 3) extra evening magic hours (Deluxe Guests only)
> Note: They're throwing us a bone with Slinky Dog Dash being available on Genie+. Who slipped that by Chapek?



Get out of my head.  This.  ALL of this.


----------



## Tonyz

This is just so convoluted... what is Disney doing???


----------



## Jwaire

Tonyz said:


> This is just so convoluted... what is Disney doing???



Getting that 7 billion back, unfortunately.


----------



## Tonyz

Jwaire said:


> Getting that 7 billion back, unfortunately.



Is that the reported amount they lost during COVID?


----------



## wisblue

hdrolfe said:


> I was hoping this wouldn't start until after my trip Oct 25 - 31. I will be watching closely when it starts to see if we will need to use it
> 
> My son's favourite ride is Space... having to pay for that will be really annoying.



If it’s a favorite that would seem to make it a good candidate for Early Entry rope drop.


----------



## Jwaire

Tonyz said:


> Is that the reported amount they lost during COVID?



Disney reported they lost $6.9 billion on Parks in 2020. The overall company lost around $2.86 billion. They returned to profitability in Q3 of 2021. So, they have a little make up work to do it. They're used to the [domestic] Parks propping them up without having to spend much on them. It's generally the 2nd most profitable division behind media (ABC, ESPN, etc).


----------



## elgerber

Reading the info on Disney’s site, they do have it worded to sound like you can only pay for one IA$ at a time. It says one at a time then also says you can book your “first” at 7am (on-site). I truly hope I am reading that wrong


----------



## wisblue

Here’s a prediction.

When Genie+ first comes out, if this board is any indication, a lot of people will decline to pay and a lot of others won’t know about it or won’t know how it works and won’t pay.

That will make Genie + very useful for early users because the supply of available LL reservations will disappear much more slowly than paper FP and FP+ ever did.

As people report on their positive experiences (especially at MK and DHS) more people will bite the bullet and buy Genie+ and that greater demand will drive the $15 price up.

My plan for a 3 day trip in November with 4 people and hopper tickets is to get Genie+ every day to see how well it works in conjunction with Early Entry, rope drop, and park hopping. I might also get an IAS reservation or 2 if it will help avoid rope drop crushes to things like FOP and ROTR.

How well that all works will help me decide what to do on future trips. If I think it wasn’t worth it I’ll chalk it up to experience.


----------



## Doogieca

jvz82 said:


> Right in the middle of our trip! October 19th is our 3rd day, we have 3 more after it. I wonder how that will all work.


I'm in the exact same boat, have two nights of EEH as well, but probably will p(l)ay along to just see what it's like.  I've already budgeted in my mind for the G+ and will take a wait and see on the IA$.


----------



## gharter

Jwaire said:


> My breakdown on Genie+ is this, assuming a busy park day like the summer:
> 
> *Magic Kingdom*? Worth it. 17 attractions, 5 to 6 of which generally have substantial wait times.
> IAS—Mine Train? Yes; Space Mountain? No.
> Alternative? Yes; You can ride both Mine Train and Space Mountain at 1) rope drop, 2) early morning magic hours or 3) extra evening magic hours (Deluxe Guests only)
> Note: Space Mountain will likely go to Genie+ once Tron is online.
> 
> *Animal Kingdom*? Not worth it. 8 attractions, only 3 of which have substantial wait times.
> IAS—Flight of Passage Yes; Expedition Everest? No.
> Alternative? Yes; You can ride both Flight of Passage and Expedition Everest at 1) rope drop, 2) early morning magic hours or 3) extra evening magic hours (Deluxe Guests only). Expedition Everest also has a fairly quick single-rider line.
> 
> *Epcot*? Not worth it. 9 attractions, only 2 of which have substantial wait times.
> IAS—Ratatouille? Yes; Frozen Ever After? No.
> Alternative? Mixed; You can ride Frozen Ever After at 1) rope drop, 2) early morning magic hours or 3) extra evening magic hours (Deluxe Guests only).
> Note: Frozen Ever After will likely go to Genie+ once Guardians of the Galaxy Cosmic Rewind is online.
> 
> *Hollywood Studios*? Worth it. 12 attractions, 4 of which have substantial wait times.
> IAS—Rise of the Resistance? Yes; Mickey's Runaway Railway? No.
> Alternative? Yes; You can ride both Rise of the Resistance and Mickey's Runaway Railway at 1) rope drop, 2) early morning magic hours or 3) extra evening magic hours (Deluxe Guests only)
> Note: They're throwing us a bone with Slinky Dog Dash being available on Genie+. Who slipped that by Chapek?


I would agree MK is worth paying for Genie +.
Not sure on HS.  I think it all depends on how busy the park is.  Unfortunately you probably won't know that before paying for Genie +.
Agree no reason at EPCOT or AK.


----------



## Zippa D Doodah

Jonfw2 said:


> To all the good folks saying “I won’t pay for this”.
> 
> Exceptional. Do not pay for this. Huzzah.


Wishful thinking. I think we all know that 98.2% of all the people saying "I'll never pay for this" are going to pay for this. It's simple human psychology.

My wife and I will be there for a quick off site stay 10/19-21. I guess I will feel compelled to give this a try since it will be brabd new the day we get there


----------



## Zippa D Doodah

gharter said:


> I would agree MK is worth paying for Genie +.
> Not sure on HS.  I think it all depends on how busy the park is.  Unfortunately you probably won't know that before paying for Genie +.
> Agree no reason at EPCOT or AK.


That's what I was thinking too. Epcot and AK have so few attractions that it hardly seems to make G+ worth it.


----------



## DavidNYC

HopperFan said:


> Yup.  This is legit FastPass+ under a new name, with no advance booking (which should be a positive the day of for getting Genie+ times and for Standby) but now fee based.  I don't understand all the angst that now you can't do anything unless you pay for this.



Not at all. The fact that you have no control over a return time makes this nothing like FP+. It’s more like a paid electronic version of the original FP system.  The angst is that Disney has taken nearly full control of your schedule unless you just want to resign yourself to standby all day.  Their marketing for this is truly Orwellian.  In one sentence it tells you how the app will keep telling you where to go and the next sentence talks about how you can be more spontaneous.  No matter how you look at it - people whom actually liked planning their Disney trips - which is a great number of people on this board - just lost a hell of a lot of control over their day and most likely a great increase in wait times overall (not to mention how bad this is for people who don’t want to wake at 7am and rope drop).


----------



## g-dad66

So I'm sitting here thinking about our upcoming trip with 6 Disney days planned, will do 2 parks twice.

But we could outlay $90 per person: 
$15 Genie+ for each of the 4 parks, plus $15 IA$ for FoP and $15 IA$ for RotR, do Early Entry rope drop for Space Mtn, Everest, Frozen, and MMRR, if lucky get BG for Remy (if unlucky, another $15 IA$), and we'll skip Seven Dwarfs.

And we could conceivably accomplish everything we want in 4 days instead of 6. Suspect we would save quite a bit more than $90 per person....

Too late to modify upcoming trip (already have 6-day park tickets), but it's certainly something to ponder further for future trips.


----------



## Kbrb

And there is it is. 

How on earth they think they will get overseas guests to stay 14 nights on site and expect them to fork out $60 average for 10 of those days is beyond me. If we pay we do everything in shorter time meaning we dont need 14 day tickets at all. 

God speed Geniepigs, i await the honest reviews.


----------



## jrsharp21

btk2333 said:


> I will definitely use both Genie+ and LIghtning Lane for some days but not all of my park days.
> 
> I'm especially looking forward to being able to pay to ride Rise of the Resistance and not deal with the virtual queue.  I'd happily pay $30 for my son and I to ride that at a predictable time and move on with our day.  Since I've never done Remy, I'll pay for that one too.  The other Lightning Lanes would depend on the day and the rest of our plans. We paid for MaxPass at Disneyland and this system seems similar.
> 
> My wife and I have a short trip coming up for Wine and Dine without the kids and I'm excited to be able to pay a little extra and get a lot more done than we otherwise would be able to.
> 
> We're going in February with the kids and in-laws and could see us buying this multiple days on that trip as well.
> 
> I'm excited to try things out in a few weeks.  I get limited vacation and time off and often would be happy to pay more to get more done



Rise of the Resistance hasn’t had a virtual queue for about 2 weeks now. You have been able to wait in a normal line to ride. Going towards park close lately has been a walk on.


----------



## CJLove79

Zippa D Doodah said:


> That's what I was thinking too. Epcot and AK have so few attractions that it hardly seems to make G+ worth it.



Me and my girl are going to Disney World next month. As soon as this came out yesterday, I was like Damn the $15 per person Genie+ for Epcot & Animal Kingdom. We're Rope Dropping both parks & I'ma Lightning Lane Frozen, Ratatouille & Safari, use standby for the rest of the rides, call it a day & save me some money. LOL. My only concern is getting a Lightning Lane at the times that I want. We'll be on property and getting the 7am slot to make our choices is cool. But that doesn't mean that the times that we want for certain rides will be available at that time. But my goal is simple, try not to use Genie+ much since Disney's system is trash. LOL.


----------



## luv2cheer92

Kbrb said:


> And there is it is.
> 
> How on earth they think they will get overseas guests to stay 14 nights on site and expect them to fork out $60 average for 10 of those days is beyond me. If we pay we do everything in shorter time meaning we dont need 14 day tickets at all.
> 
> God speed Geniepigs, i await the honest reviews.


If you are going for 14 days, it would be highly unlikely that you would need it every single day. Or even at all.


----------



## Dreams&wishes

luv2cheer92 said:


> If you are going for 14 days, it would be highly unlikely that you would need it every single day. Or even at all.


Well as said in my previous post me as many Europeans have tickets for 21 days and used fast passes for 21 days why wouldn't have to be the same with the Genie app?


----------



## luv2cheer92

Dreams&wishes said:


> Well as said in my previous post me as many Europeans have tickets for 21 days and used fast passes for 21 days why wouldn't have to be the same with the Genie app?


You said it would be a lot of money (true). All I'm saying is that you don't need to get it every day if you don't want to spend that much.


----------



## Marionnette

I'm trying to find a silver lining on this and boy is it hard. But let's  consider that everything that has been put out there has said it is $15 per person per day, not per park. So, will that mean that you could hop to or from Epcot and AK (two parks that don't seem worth the purchase) and still use your Genie+ at MK and HS? And if so, would you need to be present in that 2nd park in order to book your next LL? With FP+, you could book your next reservation at any park after using your first 3 and you did not need to be inside that 2nd park to do it. 

If Genie+ works that way, you could conceivably spend a morning at HS and then head over to Epcot in the afternoon to do a few attractions as well. And with only 3 hours between when Epcot opens and hopping begins, there should still be LL reservations available if you were to hop early.


----------



## Dreams&wishes

luv2cheer92 said:


> You said it would be a lot of money (true). All I'm saying is that you don't need to get it every day if you don't want to spend that much.


Yes I know we don't have to have that everyday, but doing so would be downgrading from what we were used to for a much higher price. And that's not the only downgrading aspect.
International travellers also used to have free dining as an incentive. I doubt this will ever come back. And the advantages of staying on site, all that is gone. 
We also have to consider really high airplane fares for us 6 for example, from Australia would be probably looking at around $10, 000 if prices remain precovid. 

All I'm saying is just that they are pushing international travellers even further away. 
And probably also families, because one thing is to pay this for one or two people the other is to pay for 5 or 6.


----------



## Kbrb

luv2cheer92 said:


> If you are going for 14 days, it would be highly unlikely that you would need it every single day. Or even at all.



Then my 14 days will be spent in lines?  There is no win at all as far as i can see. I can save money and spend my 2 weeks going from line to line or factor in needing it atleast for every MK and HS day


----------



## francie57

If this had been asked or I missed it, sorry. Will you be able to do your whole travel party at once or will everyone have to have their own Disney experience account to get this. If everyone has to have Their own account how will you be sure that times will Be together


----------



## snikki

ChanaC said:


> *Not to beat a dead horse, but I feel really sorry for the casual Disney-going family because this is just so complicated.* Even the changing IA prices make it a headache to plan in advance. Like here in this thread people are already trying to figure things out, but we are such a small percentage of the amount of people who actually visit the park. I'm imagining there will lots of people fumbling around on their phones in front of attractions trying to figure out what LL is, where FP went, and what the hell they have to pay to use it, that is if all the LL passes aren't already "sold" out, like how FP got scooped up really quickly on busy days. And I can't imagine how extra complicated this is for guests who don't speak English. I know there is a WDW website in Spanish and Portuguese (and maybe some other languages?), but for a lot of other people this is going to be a really complicated thing to figure out.
> 
> All that being said, I'm really interested to see how this works out and if the IA prices are worth. I'm planning a short trip in December and the only IA I can see us buying might be Remy, because we are planning on park hopping to Epcot midday so we wouldn't be able to get in the free boarding group. I'm also going with a massive SW fan who has been on RotR once, but I can see him wanting to buy a IA for that again. Someone joked about all the bloggers being in the parks, but I would actually like to see what some of them do with LL and how to best utilize it, if it even really needs to be utilized.



I think the casual Disney guest will do just fine with this. They aren’t the guests who are going to research how to maximize it or how to find loopholes to make it better. They aren’t Disney fanatics. So if they pay for G+ they’ll just book some LL as they go about their day and be happy they skipped some lines. Most won’t even know FP used to be free. I bet a large portion of casual guests won’t even pay for it and if they do they’ll barely use it. I know so many people who did Disney during FP+ and never even utilized that. I even know one family that paid for DDP and barely used it because they made no ADRs and couldn’t get into any restaurants. This site doesn’t show the average Disney guest. We are the small percentage of over planners.


----------



## wisblue

DavidNYC said:


> Not at all. The fact that you have no control over a return time makes this nothing like FP+. It’s more like a paid electronic version of the original FP system.  The angst is that Disney has taken nearly full control of your schedule unless you just want to resign yourself to standby all day.  Their marketing for this is truly Orwellian.  In one sentence it tells you how the app will keep telling you where to go and the next sentence talks about how you can be more spontaneous.  No matter how you look at it - people whom actually liked planning their Disney trips - which is a great number of people on this board - just lost a hell of a lot of control over their day and most likely a great increase in wait times overall (not to mention how bad this is for people who don’t want to wake at 7am and rope drop).



I’m not seeing this in any way taking control of my schedule. We don’t have to take the Genie suggestions, or even look at it at all.

i look at it as a quick place to get information to help answer that question “what should we do next?”, something that everyone at a WDW park faces several times a day.

If it works like it sounds, you can (if you want) look at the app and see wait times and next available LL times for every attraction, with emphasis on ones you’ve identified as your priorities.

In the old paper FP days, if you were interested in a particular ride, you had to go to the attraction itself to see the standby wait time and see the available FP return time. If the standby wait was too long and the FP return time not available, you had to move to a Plan B and repeat the process. This will let you make that decision more quickly with fewer steps.

A lot of the free Genie service looks like a more robust version of Touring Plans. People who have followed those plans religiously (not us) might find this to be even better than that because the plans can be adjusted with real time information about wait times, attractions that are down, etc.

Assuming that Disney doesn’t allocate even a higher percentage of a ride’s capacity to the LL, I don’t see why this system should make standby lines longer than they were with FP+. If anything they might be shorter because fewer people,will be running around with their 3 ”free” FPs. That would all seem to depend on how many guests decide to pay for Genie+ and ILLA.  

For those guests who never used paper FP (and Disney said that was about half of them) this will just be a return to those days with everything standby (except for those attractions that have IALL and a VQ).

I‘m looking forward to seeing how it works in practice.


----------



## Juventus

Practice?

I have a few sets of tickets:  I know I can't practice the G+ selections without paying $15, but if I make park reservations I should be able to practice/see what individual LL are available for purchase at park opening.  This will be useful information to determine what ILL options will be available after resort guests get to them at 7AM.

Am I thinking this correctly?


----------



## Marionnette

Juventus said:


> Practice?
> 
> I have a few sets of tickets:  I know I can't practice the G+ selections without paying $15, but if I make park reservations I should be able to practice/see what individual LL are available for purchase at park opening.  This will be useful information to determine what ILL options will be available after resort guests get to them at 7AM.
> 
> Am I thinking this correctly?


Practicing from home for IA$/ILL$ may not work. Offsite guests cannot reserve those selections until they have entered a park. You may not be able to see any IA$ time slots at all if you're checking from home. I guess we will know for sure after Oct. 19.


----------



## GillianP1301

My personal thoughts on Genie+ is I'm cautiously optimistic for it. I loved fastpasses and worked that system very well and always was able to get multiple fastpasses after my first 3 were used up. I rarely had to wait in standby and when I did, it was 20 minute or less wait. I'm assuming at this point that my ability to get Genie+ day of should be about the same as it was for Fastpass+. I will definitely be adding on the $15/day to my package tickets and will just be thinking of it as part of my ticket pricing. I'm not sure how often I will take advantage of the IAS offerings, but I do like that there is an option there for me if I really  want to get on a super popular ride and don't want to wait. I see me taking advantage of this for the new rides I haven't been on yet like RoR, MMRR & Ratatouille. 

A few things I'm waiting for more info on that will help with my planning...

I know you can only hold one Genie+ at a time, but can you hold both of your IAS at a time and/or can you hold an IAS and a Genie+ at the same time?

I know you can only ride the IAS attractions once per day to a max of 2, but can you repeat Genie+ attractions (assuming availability)?

How will this work with APs? I'm considering upgrading my tickets to AP this coming trip, but not sure the impact if I do. I'm assuming I would have to just purchase the Genie+ daily for $15 as opposed to purchasing it up front as part of my package, but I'm not sure.


----------



## HopperFan

DavidNYC said:


> Not at all. The fact that you have no control over a return time makes this nothing like FP+. It’s more like a paid electronic version of the original FP system.  The angst is that Disney has taken nearly full control of your schedule unless you just want to resign yourself to standby all day.  Their marketing for this is truly Orwellian.  In one sentence it tells you how the app will keep telling you where to go and the next sentence talks about how you can be more spontaneous.  No matter how you look at it - people whom actually liked planning their Disney trips - which is a great number of people on this board - just lost a hell of a lot of control over their day and most likely a great increase in wait times overall (not to mention how bad this is for people who don’t want to wake at 7am and rope drop).



We’ll I guess we are interpreting the information in two different ways.

I will wait to see how it actually works for awhile before I declare it a failure. I’m going right after it begins and again in January - be a good comparison.


----------



## tony67

Wow -
$15 to ride RoR - seems to me that ride is one and done - very underwhelmed to say the least
$10 to ride 7DMT in MK and $7 from EE in AK - EE is the bargain here

Space Mountain - how often does that break down - will be interesting to see how many will actually pay for this.

Will they continue to inflate the wait times?


BTW- I am OK with the $15 a day for the other rides - that would work for me I think - will have to see how it pans out - if it is only once per ride per day - then no


----------



## GillianP1301

snikki said:


> I think the casual Disney guest will do just fine with this. They aren’t the guests who are going to research how to maximize it or how to find loopholes to make it better. They aren’t Disney fanatics. So if they pay for G+ they’ll just book some LL as they go about their day and be happy they skipped some lines. Most won’t even know FP used to be free. I bet a large portion of casual guests won’t even pay for it and if they do they’ll barely use it. I know so many people who did Disney during FP+ and never even utilized that. I even know one family that paid for DDP and barely used it because they made no ADRs and couldn’t get into any restaurants. This site doesn’t show the average Disney guest. We are the small percentage of over planners.



I agree with you. There was a pretty high % of guests who never utilized a FP at all, many of that group thought people were paying for them back then when they weren't. I expect Genie+ not be much different and in fact you will likely end up with a group of casual guests who buy Genie+ and may still not take advantage of it completely. It can be hard when you are on boards like this with a bunch of uber planners to remember that we are very much the minority of the number of guests who visit the parks.


----------



## Marionnette

GillianP1301 said:


> My personal thoughts on Genie+ is I'm cautiously optimistic for it. I loved fastpasses and worked that system very well and always was able to get multiple fastpasses after my first 3 were used up. I rarely had to wait in standby and when I did, it was 20 minute or less wait. I'm assuming at this point that my ability to get Genie+ day of should be about the same as it was for Fastpass+. I will definitely be adding on the $15/day to my package tickets and will just be thinking of it as part of my ticket pricing. I'm not sure how often I will take advantage of the IAS offerings, but I do like that there is an option there for me if I really  want to get on a super popular ride and don't want to wait. I see me taking advantage of this for the new rides I haven't been on yet like RoR, MMRR & Ratatouille.
> 
> A few things I'm waiting for more info on that will help with my planning...
> 
> I know you can only hold one Genie+ at a time, but can you hold both of your IAS at a time and/or can you hold an IAS and a Genie+ at the same time?
> 
> I know you can only ride the IAS attractions once per day to a max of 2, but can you repeat Genie+ attractions (assuming availability)?
> 
> How will this work with APs? I'm considering upgrading my tickets to AP this coming trip, but not sure the impact if I do. I'm assuming I would have to just purchase the Genie+ daily for $15 as opposed to purchasing it up front as part of my package, but I'm not sure.


From what has been reported by reputable bloggers, not necessarily directly from Disney:

You can hold two IA$ concurrently. They just cannot be for the same experience and you cannot purchase a third that day. You can also have a Genie+ selection while holding those 2 IA$ reservations. It's possible, under certain circumstances, to even have 2 Genie+ selections reserved if the first one is 120+ minutes away from the time when you reserved it.
Genie+ will be limited to once per attraction per day.
You cannot add Genie+ to your AP for the length of your AP. It will be a daily purchase.


----------



## Marionnette

HopperFan said:


> .
> 
> 
> We’ll I guess we are interpreting the information in two different ways.
> 
> I will wait to see how it actually works for awhile before I declare it a failure. I’m going right after it begins and again in January - be a good comparison.


I'm looking forward to your impressions from your first trip. I trust you to give a fair evaluation of it. Please report back when you've had first-hand experience with it.


----------



## cjlong88

We decided to give it a go for our November weekend trip. Being there only two days and having park hopper, we will have a limited time and more LL options since we can move between parks. Glad it will be out for a few weeks so we can gather feedback and experiences from others before making a plan.


----------



## luv2cheer92

tony67 said:


> Wow -
> $15 to ride RoR - *seems to me that ride is one and done - very underwhelmed to say the least*
> $10 to ride 7DMT in MK and $7 from EE in AK - EE is the bargain here
> 
> Space Mountain - how often does that break down - will be interesting to see how many will actually pay for this.
> 
> Will they continue to inflate the wait times?
> 
> 
> BTW- I am OK with the $15 a day for the other rides - that would work for me I think - will have to see how it pans out - if it is only once per ride per day - then no


You are very, very much in the minority with that. Which is ok. Its often regarded as the best theme park ride in the world. I've ridden it about 15 times and I would gladly pay $15 for it every trip.


----------



## Biggen

Marionnette said:


> From what has been reported by reputable bloggers, not necessarily directly from Disney:
> 
> You can hold two IA$ concurrently. They just cannot be for the same experience and you cannot purchase a third that day. You can also have a Genie+ selection while holding those 2 IA$ reservations. It's possible, under certain circumstances, to even have 2 Genie+ selections reserved if the first one is 120+ minutes away from the time when you reserved it.
> Genie+ will be limited to once per attraction per day.
> You cannot add Genie+ to your AP for the length of your AP. It will be a daily purchase.


I have a hard time believing that you can only use Genie+ once per ride per day. I guess we will see but that doesn’t seem like great value.


----------



## jujubiee4

Jwaire said:


> My breakdown on Genie+ is this, assuming a busy park day like the summer:
> 
> *Magic Kingdom*? Worth it. 17 attractions, 5 to 6 of which generally have substantial wait times.
> IAS—Mine Train? Yes; Space Mountain? No.
> Alternative? Yes; You can ride both Mine Train and Space Mountain at 1) rope drop, 2) early morning magic hours or 3) extra evening magic hours (Deluxe Guests only)
> Note: Space Mountain will likely go to Genie+ once Tron is online.
> 
> *Animal Kingdom*? Not worth it. 8 attractions, only 3 of which have substantial wait times.
> IAS—Flight of Passage Yes; Expedition Everest? No.
> Alternative? Yes; You can ride both Flight of Passage and Expedition Everest at 1) rope drop, 2) early morning magic hours or 3) extra evening magic hours (Deluxe Guests only). Expedition Everest also has a fairly quick single-rider line.
> 
> *Epcot*? Not worth it. 9 attractions, only 2 of which have substantial wait times.
> IAS—Ratatouille? Yes; Frozen Ever After? No.
> Alternative? Mixed; You can ride Frozen Ever After at 1) rope drop, 2) early morning magic hours or 3) extra evening magic hours (Deluxe Guests only).
> Note: Frozen Ever After will likely go to Genie+ once Guardians of the Galaxy Cosmic Rewind is online.
> 
> *Hollywood Studios*? Worth it. 12 attractions, 4 of which have substantial wait times.
> IAS—Rise of the Resistance? Yes; Mickey's Runaway Railway? No.
> Alternative? Yes; You can ride both Rise of the Resistance and Mickey's Runaway Railway at 1) rope drop, 2) early morning magic hours or 3) extra evening magic hours (Deluxe Guests only)
> Note: They're throwing us a bone with Slinky Dog Dash being available on Genie+. Who slipped that by Chapek?


I like this except for Hollywood Studios and Animal Kingdom there is no extra evening magic hours.
There is morning but some people don't rope drop.(Us) lol

So if you don't rope drop is Epcot and AK worth getting genie+?


----------



## Marionnette

Biggen said:


> I have a hard time believing that you can only use Genie+ once per ride per day. I guess we will see but that doesn’t seem like great value.


Even Deni's article here on the DIS is reporting that. You may want to wait until first-hand reports come back after the 19th, but I find it difficult to believe that so many sources have this wrong.

_"Essentially, a guest who purchases Genie+ is paying for the ability to be able to use Lightning Lanes (former FastPass queues) at attractions that have them in order to ride those attractions once."_​​https://www.wdwinfo.com/news-storie...ney-world-oct-19-weve-got-all-of-the-details/


----------



## mom2rtk

luv2cheer92 said:


> You are very, very much in the minority with that. Which is ok. Its often regarded as the best theme park ride in the world. I've ridden it about 15 times and I would gladly pay $15 for it every trip.


I think "very very much in the minority" is a bit of hyperbole. Plenty of people aren't willing to pay an extra $15 per person to ride something they already paid over $100 to ride.


----------



## luv2cheer92

mom2rtk said:


> I think "very very much in the minority" is a bit of hyperbole. Plenty of people aren't willing to pay an extra $15 per person to ride something they already paid over $100 to already ride.


Did you read the post I quoted? It had nothing to do with that, at all.


----------



## Twitterpaited

Now that we know it will begin on October 19, the attractions it includes, and price ranges for IAS, I can’t wait to see how it affects wait times and forming #touringplans.  I hope that touringplans gets a great host for their YouTube channel (like Brian was) to keep us informed and share the information with us #LenTesta.


----------



## mom2rtk

The more I think about this, the more I see why it had to be one time per ride per day for Geni+. There aren't enough Genie+ rides in all the non MK parks. Too many people would have clogged up the works at a handful of rides. It's the same reason 3 of the parks were tiered with FP+. This is the equivalent of tiering.

I suppose they will go with once per attraction when it starts at DL as well, in the name of consistency. But what a waste that will be. Those parks are well suited to re-rides because they have enough attractions to handle it. It's going to be a tough pill to swallow though for those used to getting re-rides with MaxPass.

I was prepared to buy Genie+ but likely won't now. That "no re-ride" clause makes a HUGE difference in the decision process.


----------



## mom2rtk

luv2cheer92 said:


> Did you read the post I quoted? It had nothing to do with that, at all.


Yes, I did. One's opinion on the ride is certainly a piece of the decision making process. We enjoyed it and thought it was pretty impressive. But it wasn't worth $15 each to reride when we think our admission didn't buy us enough to start with.

And this might surprise you. But not everyone is a huge Star Wars fan.


----------



## luv2cheer92

mom2rtk said:


> Yes, I did. One's opinion on the ride is certainly a piece of the decision making process. We enjoyed it and thought it was pretty impressive. But it wasn't worth $15 each to reride when we think our admission didn't buy us enough to start with.
> 
> And this might surprise you. But not everyone is a huge Star Wars fan.


Lol. I guess the bolding didn't make my post clear because you still don't seem to understand what I was saying. Oh well.


----------



## mom2rtk

luv2cheer92 said:


> Lol. I guess the bolding didn't make my post clear because you still don't seem to understand what I was saying. Oh well.


Lol. I can read. And I saw the bolding. People will have a variety of reasons for not wanting to pay $15 each to ride. Some won't be SW fans. Some won't think anything is worth extra to ride. Some will be making a statement about the new "pay to ride" approach. Some people will even find the ride underwhelming.


----------



## luv2cheer92

mom2rtk said:


> Lol. I can read. And I saw the bolding. People will have a variety of reasons for not wanting to pay $15 each to ride. Some won't be SW fans. Some won't think anything is worth extra to ride. Some will be making a statement about the new "pay to ride" approach. Some people will even find the ride underwhelming.


Still not what I was referring to (not even close). But that's ok.


----------



## Jonfw2

Let’s be very clear about something here:

It does NOT cost $15 to go on Rise or Everest or Flight. You still have the option of waiting in line for the price you paid for your ticket.


----------



## mom2rtk

Jonfw2 said:


> Let’s be very clear about something here:
> 
> It does NOT cost $15 to go on Rise or Everest or Flight. You still have the option of waiting in line for the price you paid for your ticket.



Definitely on EE. But for some a 90 minute wait is the equivalent of not riding. And there used to be great options for avoiding that wait without paying more.


----------



## Disneylover99

Biggen said:


> I have a hard time believing that you can only use Genie+ once per ride per day. I guess we will see but that doesn’t seem like great value.


Maybe not great value, but I can see why this would be necessary. Few would be choosing the less popular rides. The most popular rides would quickly have return times late in the day, skewing the system. People paying for this would be grumbly.


----------



## Jonfw2

mom2rtk said:


> Definitely on EE. But for some a 90 minute wait is the equivalent of not riding. And there used to be great options for avoiding that wait without paying more.


You mean fastpass? You’re right. IF you could get one. And we all knew for years Disney wasn’t letting all that money disappear when every other park charged for the same program.


----------



## mom2rtk

Disneylover99 said:


> Maybe not great value, but I can see why this would be necessary. Few would be choosing the less popular rides. The most popular rides would quickly have return times late in the day, skewing the system. People paying for this would be grumbly.


Disney keeps trying different ways of avoiding building enough attractions in the 3 non-castle parks. No matter how they slice it though, there just aren't enough. This is just the latest attempt to paint over that fact.


----------



## Grasshopper2016

HopperFan said:


> This is legit FastPass+ under a new name, with no advance booking (which should be a positive the day of for getting Genie+ times and for Standby) but now fee based. I don't understand all the angst that now you can't do anything unless you pay for this.


Speaking for myself, we used to ride almost everything with Fastpass+—many rides more than once—and rarely, if ever, waited in long lines.  Now, there is no way to recreate that experience. The closest you can come is to pay an additional ~ $140 per day for a family of four (Genie+ and two IA$), and even then you can’t ride anything twice without waiting in a long line.


----------



## Juventus

Here's another way to word it:
After selecting a LL ride, you can select your next ride after you ride your selection or after 2 hours, whichever happens first.

I think...


----------



## tony67

Grasshopper2016 said:


> Speaking for myself, we used to ride almost everything with Fastpass+—many rides more than once—and rarely, if ever, waited in long lines.  Now, there is no way to recreate that experience. The closest you can come is to pay an additional ~ $140 per day for a family of four (Genie+ and two IA$), and even then you can’t ride anything twice without waiting in a long line.


Agree for the most part - but it remains to be seen what the waits will be like in standby - the FP lines did add a lot of time to the standby lines
I dont think that will be the case anymore - between the cost and the once per ride - standby for many rides may not be too bad - other than the inflated wait times

I dont think we will really know until January how this plays out - you need the busy holiday season and time to work out the kinks


----------



## Jonfw2

Juventus said:


> Here's another way to word it:
> After selecting a LL ride, you can select your next ride after you ride your selection or after 2 hours, whichever happens first.
> 
> I think...


I’m absolutely going to try it but here’s my concern:

You pay at 7am then select Jungle Cruise and the first available time is 8pm. Or, you get a ride at 8:30am when there’s no line anyway and then when you get off of it, the next available ride isn’t til 8pm.


----------



## scrappinginontario

francie57 said:


> If this had been asked or I missed it, sorry. Will you be able to do your whole travel party at once or will everyone have to have their own Disney experience account to get this. If everyone has to have Their own account how will you be sure that times will Be together


It has not been announced that I have seen but I would say, Yes, you will be able to choose part/all of your party at once.  This is how everything else works so I don’t see this being any different.


----------



## tony67

Jonfw2 said:


> Let’s be very clear about something here:
> 
> It does NOT cost $15 to go on Rise or Everest or Flight. You still have the option of waiting in line for the price you paid for your ticket.


We all get that - its really the cost of what used to be a free FP in many peoples opinion

Then it comes down to if it is worth $15 per person to save X minutes or just skip the ride.
That will be a personal decision each person will have to make.
And again - Disney needs to stop with the overly inflated wait times


----------



## Miffy

tony67 said:


> Agree for the most part - but it remains to be seen what the waits will be like in standby - the FP lines did add a lot of time to the standby lines
> I dont think that will be the case anymore - between the cost and the once per ride - standby for many rides may not be too bad - other than the inflated wait times
> 
> I dont think we will really know until January how this plays out - you need the busy holiday season and time to work out the kinks


The only comparison I have here is our trip in May, when there was no FP+ or G+ and the standby lines were often extremely long--for example, an hour+ for MMRR and 3 hours for FoP.

ETA: I stood in the standby line for MMRR, so it's not based on the posted wait time. The FoP line was so long I didn't even see where it ended, but since I didn't stand in it, I can't attest to the accuracy of the posted wait time, but for sure it wasn't a 30-minute wait.


----------



## lorileahb

I am going twice for two-night trips in mid-October (mom and me trips with two of my kids) - one right before the launch and one two days after the launch - I hate being a genie-pig, but it looks like I will have a really good comparison.  Since it will just be two of us, I will be able to afford/have the option to purchase if it looks valuable (hopefully a few reports will come in on the 19th and 20th).  Looking forward to first-dayers sharing experiences.  I'll be sure to post mine.

My husband and I went in April (think Spring Break) - with rope drop and our typical planning we never really had to wait more than 15-20 minutes for anything.  It seemed crowded at times (with many things still closed) but still a very happy and enjoyable trip since we knew how to get around some of the crowds.  My favorite is still a late ADR so you feel like you are alone in the park at night when you are leaving.

We are early morning people - even with Genie launching, we will still use rope drop so probably save a little money that way.  My sleep-in daughter is the one coming with me for the trip after the launch, so maybe that is an opportunity to let her sleep in and buy-in for a day.  Though Boo Bash is our Magic Kingdom Day, and the other parks she chose were Epcot and Animal Kingdom, so not sure of the value there.


----------



## Jonfw2

tony67 said:


> We all get that - its really the cost of what used to be a free FP in many peoples opinion
> 
> Then it comes down to if it is worth $15 per person to save X minutes or just skip the ride.
> That will be a personal decision each person will have to make.
> And again - Disney needs to stop with the overly inflated wait times


Agreed.


----------



## tony67

Jonfw2 said:


> I’m absolutely going to try it but here’s my concern:
> 
> You pay at 7am then select Jungle Cruise and the first available time is 8pm. Or, you get a ride at 8:30am when there’s no line anyway and then when you get off of it, the next available ride isn’t til 8pm.


Yup - but  I dont expect it will work out like this  - there will be far less folks willing to pay the 15 in the first place IMO

I suspect this will work out well for those willing to pay - but again its all speculation


----------



## scrappinginontario

All of this makes my annual purchase of Touring Plans seem like a bargain at half the price!!

I think now more than ever, with Disney’s current inflation of posted wait times, purchasing a TP subscription will be beneficial in helping determine the choice to purchase G+ for a day here and there.


----------



## shawthorne44

Someone had asked up thread if existing ticket holder were forced to wait until the day of to buy G+.   I didn't see an answer.   This is from Disney


----------



## tony67

Miffy said:


> The only comparison I have here is our trip in May, when there was no FP+ or G+ and the standby lines were often extremely long--for example, an hour+ for MMRR and 3 hours for FoP.
> 
> ETA: I stood in the standby line for MMRR, so it's not based on the posted wait time. The FoP line was so long I didn't even see where it ended, but since I didn't stand in it, I can't attest to the accuracy of the posted wait time, but for sure it wasn't a 30-minute wait.


My recent trip in September - its a slow time - it seemed like every wait time was doubled by mid day 
We had a 40 minute wait on Space mountain - and it was 40  minutes because it broke down just before we were going to get on it and it took 20 minutes to exit and get a FP


----------



## Jrb1979

scrappinginontario said:


> All of this makes my annual purchase of Touring Plans seem like a bargain at half the price!!
> 
> I think now more than ever, with Disney’s current inflation of posted wait times, purchasing a TP subscription will be beneficial in helping determine the choice to purchase G+ for a day here and there.


If you're like me I will buy it every day. I hate waiting in standby queues.


----------



## Miffy

Jrb1979 said:


> If you're like me I will buy it every day. I hate waiting in standby queues.


I hear you, and I'll be getting it too, because my traveling partner is a non-waiting-in-line person and we're in this together. But we aren't traveling with kids, so it makes the entire thing seem less financially daunting than it does to people traveling with their children.


----------



## Jrb1979

Miffy said:


> I hear you, and I'll be getting it too, because my traveling partner is a non-waiting-in-line person and we're in this together. But we aren't traveling with kids, so it makes the entire thing seem less financially daunting than it does to people traveling with their children.


I travel with kids and have no issue paying $15 a day. It's cheap compared to what my family pays for other parks skip the line system.


----------



## scrappinginontario

shawthorne44 said:


> Someone had asked up thread if existing ticket holder were forced to wait until the day of to buy G+.   I didn't see an answer.   This is from Disney
> 
> View attachment 611517


This indicates that it will be added to entire package or full days on ticket which many (ourselves included) don’t want.  I purchased an 8 day ticket and can see adding G+ to probably 3 of those days max so will be purchasing day of.


----------



## emilymad

So much of this will depend on how busy the parks are.  The trip we took this past February I would have gladly paid $15 a day as after the first hour in the parks the wait times were insane.  That is completely different than the reports of wait times in the last month.

We arrive Thanksgiving weekend and I can see paying for this some days.  I am sort of happy about the IA$ rides since they are ones I like to do but DH hates.  It will be worth it to pay just for me to ride quickly while DH waits for me.

How to strategize this with hopping is what is really confusing me.


----------



## itf

I agree with others that we won't know until Christmas how this is really going to play out, and what impact it will have on the usefulness of touringplans etc


----------



## CBMom01

JMommyof3 said:


> Theoretically, it all sounds exactly like MP except the 1x per day.  But I'm good with that since we don't normally ride many rides more than once anyway and if we did it's because there was a MP available at that moment.  Except for GOTG, that's a must do multiple times a day.


We need threads where the DL max pass experts give lessons


----------



## wdw_dine_junkie

Is Everest keeping the single rider line?  If so, there's no real reason to pay extra to ride faster.  Single rider moves pretty quickly.


----------



## Jonfw2

wdw_dine_junkie said:


> Is Everest keeping the single rider line?  If so, there's no real reason to pay extra to ride faster.  Single rider moves pretty quickly.


I’d bet they do. They had single rider when fastpass was around and it’s just incredibly effective regardless.


----------



## Airb330

We are AP and DVC, mid-30s & typically went 2-3 times a year. We loved going into a park for half days, doing FP+ and going back to the resort, maybe hopping for a nighttime show at Epcot or TotWL.

We can afford G+ and IAS. I don’t see the value because we don’t need to ride everything. In fact, I’m seeing less value from wdw with each new nugget of information we learn. Sure, $15 to save 90 minutes in line is logical. However, I’ll just not ride ROTR in that case. I don’t need to hit every ride in the park anymore.

We’re going to miss our old touring style with FP+. I think we’ll stay in larger DVC rooms and go less often. Buying a ticket here and there and no more APs. If we didn’t have DVC, a Disney world trip would be as much money as a trip to Hawaii…no thanks, I don’t see the value. Eventually we may even sell our DVC, something I *never* would have imagined 2 years ago.


----------



## mom2rtk

Miffy said:


> The only comparison I have here is our trip in May, when there was no FP+ or G+ and the standby lines were often extremely long--for example, an hour+ for MMRR and 3 hours for FoP.
> 
> ETA: I stood in the standby line for MMRR, so it's not based on the posted wait time. The FoP line was so long I didn't even see where it ended, but since I didn't stand in it, I can't attest to the accuracy of the posted wait time, but for sure it wasn't a 30-minute wait.


Same with our June experience. And every person you add to Lightning Lane (TM) is one person slower the standby wait will be. What we saw this summer was without full capacity yet, and it's (IMO) the best we can expect with standby in the new system.


----------



## Marionnette

wdw_dine_junkie said:


> Is Everest keeping the single rider line?  If so, there's no real reason to pay extra to ride faster.  Single rider moves pretty quickly.


If Disney wants to keep standby lines moving, they will keep the single rider lines at all attractions that have them (TT, EE, RR, MFSR). If they don't care whether standby moves, they'll take away the single rider options.


----------



## Thumper99

luv2cheer92 said:


> Lol. I guess the bolding didn't make my post clear because you still don't seem to understand what I was saying. Oh well.


Maybe you can make it exactly clearer what you are saying because you just bolded their post and told them they were wrong. If your intention was that you loved the ride and wanted to ride it over and over it appears you would be willing to do that again in the standby line or be willing to pay once to do it with the new system. What cryptic message were you trying to state by bolding part of their post and then Laughing at them that they don’t understand what you meant. I think the poster totally understood that you were saying his impression of “underwhelmed” was just wrong. 

Personally I rode the ride. It was neat. Everyone should experience it at least once if they like Star Wars. But in my opinion and many others it’s not necessarily the best ride in the world. If you aren’t a Star Wars fanatic and thrilled with seeing all the nuances of the characters you love (or hate) it’s just a fun ride. I will say it is a longer ride so if you do wait in standby at least you get a longer ride at the end.


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

wdw_dine_junkie said:


> Is Everest keeping the single rider line?  If so, there's no real reason to pay extra to ride faster.  Single rider moves pretty quickly.


True, but some people have kids (or even adults) who don’t want to ride alone.


----------



## mom2rtk

CBMom01 said:


> We need threads where the DL max pass experts give lessons


I don't see that many lessons are needed when you can only ride each attraction once. Rope drop for as many short rides as you can get, then start on the Genie+ rides you do get.


----------



## mom2rtk

Thumper99 said:


> Maybe you can make it exactly clearer what you are saying because you just bolded their post and told them they were wrong. If your intention was that you loved the ride and wanted to ride it over and over it appears you would be willing to do that again in the standby line or be willing to pay once to do it with the new system. What cryptic message were you trying to state by bolding part of their post and then Laughing at them that they don’t understand what you meant. I think the poster totally understood that you were saying his impression of “underwhelmed” was just wrong.
> 
> Personally I rode the ride. It was neat. Everyone should experience it at least once if they like Star Wars. But in my opinion and many others it’s not necessarily the best ride in the world. If you aren’t a Star Wars fanatic and thrilled with seeing all the nuances of the characters you love (or hate) it’s just a fun ride. I will say it is a longer ride so if you do wait in standby at least you get a longer ride at the end.


Yep. That.


----------



## igrsod

loves to dive said:


> I'll be there in Dec. so will be testing out the stand by lines.   I really don't anticipate needing Genie + but I'm (and my son as well)  one who really doesn't mind waiting in line.   I'll be there the week of Dec. 12th which is about a week before the holiday crowds get too bad so we shall see.


Us too hopefully.  See you there.  I agree... we will be just standing in line.  I don't think it will be necessary to have a great trip.


----------



## CBMom01

Airb330 said:


> We are AP and DVC, mid-30s & typically went 2-3 times a year. We loved going into a park for half days, doing FP+ and going back to the resort, maybe hopping for a nighttime show at Epcot or TotWL.
> 
> We can afford G+ and IAS. I don’t see the value because we don’t need to ride everything. In fact, I’m seeing less value from wdw with each new nugget of information we learn. Sure, $15 to save 90 minutes in line is logical. However, I’ll just not ride ROTR in that case. I don’t need to hit every ride in the park anymore.
> 
> We’re going to miss our old touring style with FP+. I think we’ll stay in larger DVC rooms and go less often. Buying a ticket here and there and no more APs. If we didn’t have DVC, a Disney world trip would be as much money as a trip to Hawaii…no thanks, I don’t see the value. Eventually we may even sell our DVC, something I *never* would have imagined 2 years ago.


For us once /year out of state folks it makes more sense. $15 to ride something we’ve been waiting a year for makes sense.  But for one or two rides. Not for everything.

But it really really makes sense for the once or twice in a lifetime visitors who I believe are the vast majority of visitors


----------



## Needsanap

Sorry. What is ia$ ?


----------



## JennSaint

scrappinginontario said:


> All of this makes my annual purchase of Touring Plans seem like a bargain at half the price!!
> 
> I think now more than ever, with Disney’s current inflation of posted wait times, purchasing a TP subscription will be beneficial in helping determine the choice to purchase G+ for a day here and there.


Hmmm I have been wondering if it would be worth it to purchase the TP subscription.  We will be in Epcot on 10/20 & HS on 10/21.  I was really hoping Genie wouldn't be starting until after that.  ugh what to do!


----------



## Marionnette

Needsanap said:


> Sorry. What is ia$ ?


IA$ = Individual Attraction Selection

It has now been renamed Individual Lightning Lane Selection (ILL$) by Disney. Because it isn't confusing enough that both Genie+ and IA$/ILL$ both use the Lightning Lane terminology in their descriptions.


----------



## Needsanap

Marionnette said:


> IA$ = Individual Attraction Selection
> 
> It has now been renamed Individual Lightning Lane Selection (ILL$) by Disney. Because it isn't confusing enough that both Genie+ and IA$/ILL$ both use the Lightning Lane terminology in their descriptions.


Thanks. Just trying to keep up


----------



## Airb330

CBMom01 said:


> For us once /year out of state folks it makes more sense. $15 to ride something we’ve been waiting a year for makes sense.  But for one or two rides. Not for everything.
> 
> But it really *really makes sense for the once or twice in a lifetime visitors who I believe are the vast majority of visitors*


That is clearly what Disney is targeting. You know who helps smooth out attendance and who spends money when there are recessions? Locals, APs and DVC. Maybe things will swing back our way at some point in the future. Making everything a transaction and/or at 7AM isn’t an appealing vacation destination.


----------



## g-dad66

For experienced FP+ users, maybe the easiest way to think of this is:
Fast Pass lane is now the Lightning Lane
Tier 1 is now ILL$ (you pay a variable premium per attraction for Lightning Lane access)
Tier 2 is now Genie+ (you pay a flat rate for Lightning Lane access to all Tier 2 attractions)
You can't access the same Lightning Lane twice in the same day


----------



## elgerber

I still really want to know how we pay for it?  Can we just charge to the room or will it be like mobile order?


----------



## Marionnette

elgerber said:


> I still really want to know how we pay for it?  Can we just charge to the room or will it be like mobile order?


I imagine that since this is not exclusive to onsite guests, that it won't be a room charge. So in that regard, I expect it to be more like mobile ordering where they charge the credit card you have on file in MDE or allow you to use a gift card as payment at the time of purchase.


----------



## elgerber

Marionnette said:


> I imagine that since this is not exclusive to onsite guests, that it won't be a room charge. So in that regard, I expect it to be more like mobile ordering where they charge the credit card you have on file in MDE or allow you to use a gift card as payment at the time of purchase.


Kinda what I was thinking.  I hope taking the time to enter a gift card number doesn't shut out a chance of purchasing something very popular like ROTR


----------



## Marionnette

elgerber said:


> Kinda what I was thinking.  I hope taking the time to enter a gift card number doesn't shut out a chance of purchasing something very popular like ROTR


If it works like mobile ordering, your slot is held until you confirm payment or released if you cancel.

FWIW, you can store the GC info in your phone and c/p it to mobile ordering to speed things up.


----------



## Frozen2014

btk2333 said:


> *I will definitely use both Genie+ and LIghtning Lane for some days but not all of my park days.*
> 
> I'm especially looking forward to being able to pay to ride Rise of the Resistance and not deal with the virtual queue.  I'd happily pay $30 for my son and I to ride that at a predictable time and move on with our day.  Since I've never done Remy, I'll pay for that one too.  The other Lightning Lanes would depend on the day and the rest of our plans. We paid for MaxPass at Disneyland and this system seems similar.
> 
> My wife and I have a short trip coming up for Wine and Dine without the kids and I'm excited to be able to pay a little extra and get a lot more done than we otherwise would be able to.
> 
> We're going in February with the kids and in-laws and could see us buying this multiple days on that trip as well.
> 
> I'm excited to try things out in a few weeks.  I get limited vacation and time off and often would be happy to pay more to get more done


Haven't been to Disney in awhile, and we last time we skipped AK, but from what I know, I will say the same.

All four of our family will definitely use Lightning Lane for:  Flight of Passage at AK, Star Wars Rise or Resistance at HS.  

The rest may vary (e.g. just kids getting Space Mountain at MK)

Guess the others will depend on the wait times on that day.  I do really want to try Frozen, Remy at Epcot and Runaway Railway.

As for Genie+, that's a tough one.  At Epcot for example, totally worth it for Soarin and Test Track...but then you can only book each ride once via Genie +, and nothing else is really worth it from what I understand with current wait times.  So do we splurge and get it?  We will have 2 Epcot days, so maybe we will bite the bullet for one of our days?

MK seems worth it for Genie+ as there are a lot of rides included.  But both days or just one day?

At HS, I guess Genie+ is worth it just for Millennium and Slinky Dog dash, and then Toy Story and Star Tours...so most likely purchase it.

Definitely makes it interesting for a different kind of planning.


----------



## Thumper99

So does anyone know the process of this. Basically at 60 days out for the fast passes we all waited breathlessly for our window to open and then bam we tried to get the best rides as fast as we could. Are we basically going to be doing the same thing each day at 7 am?  That sounds very stressful.   Or say I go to rope drop and get to do a few big rides but missed haunted mansion or thunder mountain. It’s now 10am. Do I buy Genie+ now or would all the LL tickets be gone anyways? Also let’s say I want to ride mine train but couldn’t do it during early morning hours. Can I buy access now at say 12 noon?  I know some of these questions won’t be answered until in production but wondering how it worked in DL. We are scheduled for MK about 7 days after this whole thing kicks in later this month. Still struggling to see if it will be worth it.


----------



## DWillowBay

wisblue said:


> I haven’t come across the answers to a few things yet, and maybe they haven’t been answered.
> 
> For people who regularly park hop, stacking of the LL passes has less value, unless someone with a hopper ticket can get them for after 2 PM at a second park. For example, if we are starting at MK but planning to hop to Epcot, I might want to get a LL pass to Soarin or TT for late afternoon or early evening. I wonder if that is allowed.
> 
> Similarly, I’d like to know if someone with a hopper ticket can purchase one of the IAS passes at a second park for later in the day. I could see buying a pass for Ratatouille for later in the day and hopping to Epcot to use it. Otherwise I’m not sure if I’ll be buying IAS passes for attractions we’ve done several times in the past. Maybe ROTR if they don’t return to the VQ.


Totally agree that those two things have not been addressed and I have the same questions.   I guess either later this week they'll give details like that....or... you and I will be figuring it out as we go (less attractive option!)


----------



## elgerber

Marionnette said:


> If it works like mobile ordering, your slot is held until you confirm payment or released if you cancel.
> 
> FWIW, you can store the GC info in your phone and c/p it to mobile ordering to speed things up.


already texted all the numbers to myself


----------



## Marionnette

Thumper99 said:


> So does anyone know the process of this. Basically at 60 days out for the fast passes we all waited breathlessly for our window to open and then bam we tried to get the best rides as fast as we could. Are we basically going to be doing the same thing each day at 7 am?  That sounds very stressful.   Or say I go to rope drop and get to do a few big rides but missed haunted mansion or thunder mountain. It’s now 10am. Do I buy Genie+ now or would all the LL tickets be gone anyways? Also let’s say I want to ride mine train but couldn’t do it during early morning hours. Can I buy access now at say 12 noon?  I know some of these questions won’t be answered until in production but wondering how it worked in DL. We are scheduled for MK about 7 days after this whole thing kicks in later this month. Still struggling to see if it will be worth it.


My advice is to not stress out over it. You really can't change what it is going to be at this point. Just go in as an educated visitor and gather as much useful info from those who have gone before you.

To answer some of your questions:

You can purchase Genie+ in advance for every day of your package. Or you can purchase it on a daily basis, beginning at 12M the day of your intended visit.
At 7 AM, if you're an onsite guest, you can purchase IA$/ILL$ attractions. You will be able to choose from a number of return times for those attractions.
At 7 AM, all guests who have purchased Genie+ can book their first LL reservation. You will be offered only "next available" time slots for each attraction.
Just like paper FP, you will not be able to have more than one Genie+ LL reservation at a time UNLESS the LL reservation that you just made is 120+ minutes away. In that case, you will be allowed to pull another LL reservation for another attraction for an earlier time slot.
You will only be allowed to use Genie+ or IA$/ILL$ once per attraction per day. So if you buy ROTR for 10 AM, you cannot purchase it again for later that day. With Genie+  if you've used it to get a POTC reservation in the morning, you will not be able to get another POTC time slot later in the day.
There's no knowing at this time how quickly Genie+ or IA$/ILL$ selections will get taken. So much of it will be a function of how many Genie+ get sold and how many LL spots will be allocated each hour. My feeling is that the more Genie+ that get sold for the day, the more time slots Disney will allocate to Genie+.


----------



## scrappinginontario

Thumper99 said:


> So does anyone know the process of this. Basically at 60 days out for the fast passes we all waited breathlessly for our window to open and then bam we tried to get the best rides as fast as we could. Are we basically going to be doing the same thing each day at 7 am?  That sounds very stressful.   Or say I go to rope drop and get to do a few big rides but missed haunted mansion or thunder mountain. It’s now 10am. Do I buy Genie+ now or would all the LL tickets be gone anyways? Also let’s say I want to ride mine train but couldn’t do it during early morning hours. Can I buy access now at say 12 noon?  I know some of these questions won’t be answered until in production but wondering how it worked in DL. We are scheduled for MK about 7 days after this whole thing kicks in later this month. Still struggling to see if it will be worth it.


Not enough  info has been shared by Disney to answer for sure but I believe:
- if someone wants to ride the more popular rides early in the days then yes, 7AM will be important
- personally, even if I purchase G+ some days, I still anticipate standing in some standby lines.  It will be similar to FP+ in that some rides I had a FP for and others I chose to stand in standby.  In your example above, if I ‘missed’ (not too sure I understand what you mean by ‘missed’) Haunted Mansion or BTMR I would still ride them, just via 
standby
- I believe Disney will allow guests to purchase G+ at any time during the day.  They’re not normally ones to turn away $.  Also, Disney will charge $15 for LL for one ride.  Guests may choose to pay $15 for G+ for only 1 or 2 rides.

Let’s look at VIP Tours.  They sellout daily and I’ve heard there are about 50 of those or more available each day.   All said and done those people pay an average of about $38/person/ride!!! 

Many will choose to purchase G+ for reasons that work for them.  Me, I’ll assess day by day  and then check my budget and make a game day decision.


----------



## Grasshopper2016

mom2rtk said:


> I don't see that many lessons are needed when you can only ride each attraction once. Rope drop for as many short rides as you can get, then start on the Genie+ rides you do get.


One big strategic question I have is whether, if you plan to rope drop or otherwise arrive pretty early, you ought to book your first Genie+ LL right at 7:00 a.m. or not.  If it gives you a return time that is within the first hour or two of park opening (which seems likely), that might be a bad thing.  Why waste part of the short-standby window doing a LL ride?   And why waste your only LL for a popular ride (since there are no re-rides) at a time when the standby line isn't that bad?  

But if you wait to book your first LL, maybe the slots will begin to fill up.  Maybe the only way to actually grab 5 or 6 Genie+ LL slots in a day is to start early, because by the time you get to peak afternoon hours, there might not be much of anything left --- and if you can grab anything at all, it might only be for the evening.

If "stacking" is allowed, then it seems like the argument for pulling your first LL at 7:00 gets stronger.  But Disney still hasn't confirmed or denied that rumor, have they?


----------



## mousestruck

Frozen2014 said:


> Haven't been to Disney in awhile, and we last time we skipped AK, but from what I know, I will say the same.
> 
> All four of our family will definitely use Lightning Lane for:  Flight of Passage at AK, Star Wars Rise or Resistance at HS.
> 
> The rest may vary (e.g. just kids getting Space Mountain at MK)
> 
> Guess the others will depend on the wait times on that day.  I do really want to try Frozen, Remy at Epcot and Runaway Railway.
> 
> As for Genie+, that's a tough one.  At Epcot for example, totally worth it for Soarin and Test Track...but then you can only book each ride once via Genie +, and nothing else is really worth it from what I understand with current wait times.  So do we splurge and get it?  We will have 2 Epcot days, so maybe we will bite the bullet for one of our days?
> 
> MK seems worth it for Genie+ as there are a lot of rides included.  But both days or just one day?
> 
> At HS, I guess Genie+ is worth it just for Millennium and Slinky Dog dash, and then Toy Story and Star Tours...so most likely purchase it.
> 
> Definitely makes it interesting for a different kind of planning.


I agree with all of your assessments. I think that we will probably pay for the same two individual attractions (FOP and ROTR), unless we're able to hit them with extended evening hours since we'll be staying at a deluxe resort.  So far EEH has received very good reviews, but who knows if that will be continued and whether or not they expand to include all parks.

I am eager to read reviews once the program begins, but I'm guessing that we will purchase Genie+ for one day at each park with the exception of AK.  It just doesn't seem worth it, especially if EE continues to have a single rider line, since there are not many attractions included. We'd be more likely to just pay for FOP and try to hit the other attractions with rope drop, extended evening hours or when stand by lines are reasonable.


----------



## 0FF TO NEVERLAND

Man I’m still so angry about this. 7am!!! I need to wake up everyday of my trip at 7am if I want to book something. I want to sleep on my vacation also. I don’t rope drop. Now I gotta stress every morning of everyday of my trip if I wanted to buy this overpriced money grab. It’s ROTR lottery…everyday of your trip

I like sleep Disney. Comeon. It’s a vacation also. Don’t force people to wake up early


----------



## mousestruck

Grasshopper2016 said:


> One big strategic question I have is whether, if you plan to rope drop or otherwise arrive pretty early, you ought to book your first Genie+ LL right at 7:00 a.m. or not.  If it gives you a return time that is within the first hour or two of park opening (which seems likely), that might be a bad thing.  Why waste part of the short-standby window doing a LL ride?   And why waste your only LL for a popular ride (since there are no re-rides) at a time when the standby line isn't that bad?
> 
> But if you wait to book your first LL, maybe the slots will begin to fill up.  Maybe the only way to actually grab 5 or 6 Genie+ LL slots in a day is to start early, because by the time you get to peak afternoon hours, there might not be much of anything left --- and if you can grab anything at all, it might only be for the evening.
> 
> If "stacking" is allowed, then it seems like the argument for pulling your first LL at 7:00 gets stronger.  But Disney still hasn't confirmed or denied that rumor, have they?


I have been wondering about that as well.  I think we'll have to wait and see.  What do you mean by "stacking"?  Is it possible we'll be able to book more than one at a time if the first available time slot for our #1 pick is late in the day?


----------



## Turksmom

Grasshopper2016 said:


> One big strategic question I have is whether, if you plan to rope drop or otherwise arrive pretty early, you ought to book your first Genie+ LL right at 7:00 a.m. or not.  If it gives you a return time that is within the first hour or two of park opening (which seems likely), that might be a bad thing.  Why waste part of the short-standby window doing a LL ride?   And why waste your only LL for a popular ride (since there are no re-rides) at a time when the standby line isn't that bad?
> 
> But if you wait to book your first LL, maybe the slots will begin to fill up.  Maybe the only way to actually grab 5 or 6 Genie+ LL slots in a day is to start early, because by the time you get to peak afternoon hours, there might not be much of anything left --- and if you can grab anything at all, it might only be for the evening.
> 
> If "stacking" is allowed, then it seems like the argument for pulling your first LL at 7:00 gets stronger.  But Disney still hasn't confirmed or denied that rumor, have they?


Disney has confirmed that if the time for the ride you selected is more than 2 hours later, you can make another selection after 2 hours have passed.

ETA- Sorry- I was wrong about where I had read it. Still nothing direct from Disney


----------



## Grasshopper2016

Turksmom said:


> Disney has confirmed that if the time for the ride you selected is more than 2 hours later, you can make another selection after 2 hours have passed.


Thanks.  I've seen that quasi-confirmed by insiders who claim to have heard Disney say it at media events, but I haven't seen it confirmed in writing by any official Disney source.


----------



## scrappinginontario

Turksmom said:


> Disney has confirmed that if the time for the ride you selected is more than 2 hours later, you can make another selection after 2 hours have passed.


Can you please supply a link to this information?  I read all info that I could find that Disney published and didn’t see this.  

I hope it’s true and had been speculated but I missed seeing what you did when you say, ‘Disney confirmed…’

Thanks


----------



## Grasshopper2016

I will add that the no re-rides rule seems to be similar.  I believe that insiders have confirmed it, but Disney has remained silent.  The difference is that Disney might never publicly announce the no re-rides rule.  It might just be that, once you pull a LL for a ride, that option is never shown to you again for the rest of the day, even if other people who haven't ridden it yet are seeing it.

It seems less likely that Disney would allow stacking without announcing it.  But who knows, maybe they would.  Did they ever publicly announcing the stacking rule for Maxpass at DLR?


----------



## g-dad66

On the question of making first LL selection at 7:00am, I'm thinking that for HS, it would be smart to go for SDD first.  This is clearly the "Tier 2 attraction" that will have the longest waits during the day.  It probably won't take long before the first available LL time for SDD gets pushed beyond 11:00, which would mean no eligibility to book second LL attraction until 11:00 (assuming a 9:00 park opening, and a 120-hour maximum wait for eligiblity for next LL access).

Just like with FP (+ and -), the earlier we grab, the more grabbing we can do.

And if our first LL time is 9:00 to 10:00, that gives us from 8:30 Early Entry until 9:45 to do some Standby lines.

But in a park like Epcot, it may not be important to start early, since TT and Soarin LLs may be the only things worth getting, and we can only get them once.


----------



## Marionnette

​


scrappinginontario said:


> Can you please supply a link to this information?  I read all info that I could find that Disney published and didn’t see this.
> 
> I hope it’s true and had been speculated but I missed seeing what you did when you say, ‘Disney confirmed…’
> 
> Thanks


I'm not finding anything on the Disney website that confirms this.  But many bloggers have reported it, including our own Deni Sunderly:

_Similar to Disneyland’s old Disney MaxPass, only one selection can be held at a time, with the exception being when a guest’s next selection time window is more than 120 minutes away. In that case, Disney Genie+ will allow a second selection to be held._​
https://www.wdwinfo.com/news-storie...ney-world-oct-19-weve-got-all-of-the-details/


----------



## ShayBells

A couple of things that I see that has different information coming out about it:

I have seen people say you can make your 2 LL$ at 7am for the day, but Disney website still says one at a time in its wording when mentioning LL$ ... (could be bad wording for them, or could be that people are wrong and LL$ will be one at a time too which will suck. I would rather plan for them if I want them and book them all at once before they run out.)

Then as far as the 120 minute delay, Disney website does not mention this but everyone has reported it, but every comment I see about this is different. I keep seeing this mentioned in different ways. 120 minutes from time of booking or 120 minutes before the time period of your selection, or can you for example at 7am pick Jungle Cruise when the next available selection time is 1pm so I can right away make another selection becuase I have more than 120 minutes from my selected selection, but that doesn't really make sense. (I think this one I am most confused about and won't be not confused until I see it in action LOL) 

I think overall it will come down to availability no matter what. If I am not able to get AT THE VERY LEAST 3 a day, then there's no point and therefore will be a waste of money.  

BUT My plan right now is to be cautiously optimistic. If I think it's worth it for this trip at least I will probably buy it before hand for each day. We park hop and most of those hops are to MK so it will be nice to have it for two parks and IMO make it worth more, and I won't have to worry about purchasing it each day or not at 7 am when my brain barely works. 
If it is a complete waste of money when I experience it on my own it'll be a lesson learned.


----------



## sndral

Regarding ‘stacking’ of LL passes - the Disneyland folks who used max reported that they could do this & G seems loosely based on that model, however there seem to be some important differences - DL/CA had longer hours back when max was in use, the wait time to pull the next ride was 90 minutes - not 120, so in theory more opportunities to pull rides & since rerides were allowed more rides to pull from although competition for the slots would have been higher w/ rerides I suppose.
I have a question regarding IA$ - back in the good old days of FP+ as on site guests we made our FP+ selections at 60+ days & if we had offsite guests joining us in the park & we were connected on MDE we could make FP+ for them at 60 days too, this December we’ll have the same scenario - can I an on-site guest at 7 a.m. buy everyone’s IAS for ROTR or do the offsite folks have to wait until DHS opens to buy theirs?


----------



## aviva5675

Marionnette said:


> Practicing from home for IA$/ILL$ may not work. Offsite guests cannot reserve those selections until they have entered a park. You may not be able to see any IA$ time slots at all if you're checking from home. I guess we will know for sure after Oct. 19.



This is what Ive been wondering...as Fl AP we might drive over for a few hours. I thought that at park openin I could start booking my LL or ILL, even if I was still at home.  Not happy if have to be actually have tapped in already to start getting rides booked.  And can ILL be done at 7 or park opening if not resort guest?  I know LL is 7 for guest only.


----------



## luv2cheer92

sndral said:


> Regarding ‘stacking’ of LL passes - the Disneyland folks who used max reported that they could do this & G seems loosely based on that model, however there seem to be some important differences - DL/CA had longer hours back when max was in use, the wait time to pull the next ride was 90 minutes - not 120, so in theory more opportunities to pull rides & since rerides were allowed more rides to pull from although competition for the slots would have been higher w/ rerides I suppose.
> I have a question regarding IA$ - back in the good old days of FP+ as on site guests we made our FP+ selections at 60+ days & if we had offsite guests joining us in the park & we were connected on MDE we could make FP+ for them at 60 days too, this December we’ll have the same scenario - can I an on-site guest at 7 a.m. buy everyone’s IAS for ROTR or do the offsite folks have to wait until DHS opens to buy theirs?


Oh thats a good question. Idk that I've seen that brought up anywhere. That was a nice little "hack" with FP+.


----------



## Turksmom

scrappinginontario said:


> Can you please supply a link to this information?  I read all info that I could find that Disney published and didn’t see this.
> 
> I hope it’s true and had been speculated but I missed seeing what you did when you say, ‘Disney confirmed…’
> 
> Thanks


Sorry, you are correct. I thought I had read it on the Disney Parks Blog, but it was on another site. 
Here is the quote,
"Per Walt Disney World, Genie+ will provide guests the ability to book new ride reservations before using a prior one if the next available ride time is far into the future. Meaning that guests won’t be locked out of making new Genie+ selections if it’s the morning and the next available ride time isn’t until later in the afternoon.
To answer one very common reader question, Walt Disney World has officially confirmed that Genie+ will allow guests to make their next selection 120 minutes (2 hours) in the future even if they have not yet redeemed the first Genie+ selection. This is just like the former legacy or paper FastPass system–and how we’ve said this will work since the original announcement. Nevertheless, it’s nice to have official confirmation."


----------



## Miffy

Marionnette said:


> There's no knowing at this time how quickly Genie+ or IA$/ILL$ selections will get taken. So much of it will be a function of how many Genie+ get sold and how many LL spots will be allocated each hour. My feeling is that the more Genie+ that get sold for the day, the more time slots Disney will allocate to Genie+.


This right here is the sticking point: How quickly will G+ and especially ILL$ sell out? For everyone who wanted the BG lottery for RotR to end, this might just be another lottery, except one you have to pay for if you get lucky!

And, as a side note, as bad as IAS was, ILLS is worse--acronymishly speaking, that is.


----------



## Marionnette

aviva5675 said:


> This is what Ive been wondering...as Fl AP we might drive over for a few hours. I thought that at park openin I could start booking my LL or ILL, even if I was still at home.  Not happy if have to be actually have tapped in already to start getting rides booked.  And can ILL be done at 7 or park opening if not resort guest?  I know LL is 7 for guest only.


ILL$ (previously known as IA$) is the "tier 1" attractions that are not included with Genie+. That would be attractions like ROTR, 7DMTR, FOP, etc. They can be booked at 7 AM if you are staying onsite but not until you have tapped in at a park if you are staying offsite. ILL$ will allow you to choose a return time from available slots.

Your first Genie+ selection (tier 2 attraction) can be made at 7 AM, whether you are onsite or offsite. It will only offer "next available" time slots. So if you don't intend to arrive at a park until later, getting up at 7 AM to book your first Genie+ may not give you any advantage. In fact, you may need to constantly refresh until return times meet your expected arrival time.


----------



## ShayBells

aviva5675 said:


> This is what Ive been wondering...as Fl AP we might drive over for a few hours. I thought that at park openin I could start booking my LL or ILL, even if I was still at home.  Not happy if have to be actually have tapped in already to start getting rides booked.  And can ILL be done at 7 or park opening if not resort guest?  I know LL is 7 for guest only.



From what I read and understand. LL is open to everyone at 7 am. LL$ at 7 am resort guest only.


----------



## Jrb1979

Miffy said:


> This right here is the sticking point: How quickly will G+ and especially ILL$ sell out? For everyone who wanted the BG lottery for RotR to end, this might just be another lottery, except one you have to pay for if you get lucky!
> 
> And, as a side note, as bad as IAS was, ILLS is worse--acronymishly speaking, that is.


I don't think Genie+ will sellout ever. With only being able to book 1 at a time and only next available it shouldn't sellout.


----------



## Delilah1310

Frozen2014 said:


> ...but then you can only book each ride once via Genie +



Oh I hadn't heard this! I don't see it in the Disney Parks blog announcement, but maybe I am missing it.
Are we sure you can only book each ride once via Genie+? 
Can you show me where you see that?
thanks!


----------



## Marionnette

Delilah1310 said:


> Oh I hadn't heard this! I don't see it in the Disney Parks blog announcement, but maybe I am missing it.
> Are we sure you can only book each ride once via Genie+?
> Can you show me where you see that?
> thanks!


Repeating myself from another thread. It's not from Disney directly but after seeing it on several blogs including on the DIS, I tend to believe it is true:

Even Deni's article here on the DIS is reporting that. You may want to wait until first-hand reports come back after the 19th, but I find it difficult to believe that so many sources have this wrong.

_"Essentially, a guest who purchases Genie+ is paying for the ability to be able to use Lightning Lanes (former FastPass queues) at attractions that have them in order to ride those attractions once."_​​https://www.wdwinfo.com/news-storie...ney-world-oct-19-weve-got-all-of-the-details/


----------



## HopperFan

Marionnette said:


> I'm looking forward to your impressions from your first trip. I trust you to give a fair evaluation of it. Please report back when you've had first-hand experience with it.



I will.  Yes, we love Disney and we've been going non-stop since the parks open. I have trips booked in November, January, April and likely will add June. (normally do 4-6 weeks a year there)  We lived for FP+, it was a true game changer for my son.  DAS is nice but we rely mostly on FP+ and learned how to work it quite well all day long.  It was not a broken system and open to everyone.

Do I like they are charging? No. But what that does do is put the pressure on Disney that it must work, it must have value and their app must work, their IT system must work or they will need to add a Lightning Lane for Guest Relations. When you start charging for something that was free you better greatly improve the product.

I will be fair - pros and cons - because FP+ was a critical part of our ability to travel to Disney so often.  This summer we got to experience no FP+ and only SB.  I felt like the parks busy not packed, dining was a big issue, but it was entire family so we "hung out" on our SB waits.  We also skipped DHS where there are some long lines.  I feel like with this system we will experience something between what has been happening lately and what we used to have with FP+.



Grasshopper2016 said:


> Speaking for myself, we used to ride almost everything with Fastpass+—many rides more than once—and rarely, if ever, waited in long lines.  Now, there is no way to recreate that experience. The closest you can come is to pay an additional ~ $140 per day for a family of four (Genie+ and two IA$), and even then you can’t ride anything twice without waiting in a long line.



Same. Rarely saw a SB line. I would love for it to stay free like it was, but the writing was on the wall watching the other parks.  They could have gone the Universal route and we'd be paying $80 a person a day to enter each Lightning Lane just once.  They have gone a much lower cost route with booking times.  We don't know if we can get as much done because we haven't see it in operation.  Honestly there will likely be many less using this than FP+ and with no inventory gone in advance like before it might be very workable.



Jonfw2 said:


> I’m absolutely going to try it but here’s my concern:
> 
> You pay at 7am then select Jungle Cruise and the first available time is 8pm. Or, you get a ride at 8:30am when there’s no line anyway and then when you get off of it, the next available ride isn’t til 8pm.



I just don't think this will happen. It didn't happen with FP+ when people were booking 3 in advance and likely lots more were using it than will pay to use Genie+.  And if this does happen they better expand GR because there will be lines looking for refunds.

And just like FP+ if you see a short line for something you had booked, you change it and get in the SB line.



Marionnette said:


> At 7 AM, all guests who have purchased Genie+ can book their first LL reservation. You will be offered *only "next available" time slots* for each attraction.



I know people keep saying this but their recent information makes me wonder about this and even Disney says "next available time" (which is how we usually used FP+) but some of their wording makes me question this. "...  lets you select arrival windows ...". Why would we be selecting windows if we are only offered one? It would read more like we select the attraction.  

We will see soon, one thing I know is I don't think other than how to purchase it they have been very clear on the operation of it - maybe on purpose.


----------



## Marionnette

HopperFan said:


> I know people keep saying this but their recent information makes me wonder about this and even Disney says "next available time" (which is how we usually used FP+) but some of their wording makes me question this. "...  lets you select arrival windows ...". Why would we be selecting windows if we are only offered one? It would read more like we select the attraction.
> 
> We will see soon, one thing I know is I don't think other than how to purchase it they have been very clear on the operation of it - maybe on purpose.


I'm getting "next available" directly from the Disney website:

https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/en_CA/genie/


----------



## HopperFan

Marionnette said:


> I'm getting "next available" directly from the Disney website:
> View attachment 611595
> https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/en_CA/genie/



No I did agree with you that they said that.

They also say purchasing the Genie+ ""... lets you select arrival windows ..." for the Lightning Lanes.  Inconsistent information, makes me feel like they are so busy talking it up they aren't reading what they are saying.  They are telling you how to buy this right down to the details .... but not very clear on how it will actually work.


----------



## MainMom

mousestruck said:


> I agree with all of your assessments. I think that we will probably pay for the same two individual attractions (FOP and ROTR), unless we're able to hit them with extended evening hours since we'll be staying at a deluxe resort.  So far EEH has received very good reviews, but who knows if that will be continued and whether or not they expand to include all parks.
> 
> I am eager to read reviews once the program begins, but I'm guessing that we will purchase Genie+ for one day at each park with the exception of AK.  It just doesn't seem worth it, especially if EE continues to have a single rider line, since there are not many attractions included. We'd be more likely to just pay for FOP and try to hit the other attractions with rope drop, extended evening hours or when stand by lines are reasonable.



I have similar questions about strategy. I also read speculation that they will only show you the next available time, I can’t choose a time 3 hours into the future if 1 hour away is available. I don’t necessarily want that because I don’t want to “waste” a pick on a short line of I’m RDing. I guess it’s all a wait and see, but I find this possible aspect annoying.

ETA-I didn’t read far enough to see the posts above mine talking about this.


----------



## RedmonFamily

GillianP1301 said:


> My personal thoughts on Genie+ is I'm cautiously optimistic for it. I loved fastpasses and worked that system very well and always was able to get multiple fastpasses after my first 3 were used up. I rarely had to wait in standby and when I did, it was 20 minute or less wait. I'm assuming at this point that my ability to get Genie+ day of should be about the same as it was for Fastpass+. I will definitely be adding on the $15/day to my package tickets and will just be thinking of it as part of my ticket pricing. I'm not sure how often I will take advantage of the IAS offerings, but I do like that there is an option there for me if I really  want to get on a super popular ride and don't want to wait. I see me taking advantage of this for the new rides I haven't been on yet like RoR, MMRR & Ratatouille.
> 
> A few things I'm waiting for more info on that will help with my planning...
> 
> I know you can only hold one Genie+ at a time, but can you hold both of your IAS at a time and/or can you hold an IAS and a Genie+ at the same time?
> 
> I know you can only ride the IAS attractions once per day to a max of 2, but can you repeat Genie+ attractions (assuming availability)?
> 
> How will this work with APs? I'm considering upgrading my tickets to AP this coming trip, but not sure the impact if I do. I'm assuming I would have to just purchase the Genie+ daily for $15 as opposed to purchasing it up front as part of my package, but I'm not sure.


As of right now, no the wording is you can't repeat rides with either genie+ or IAS


----------



## katyringo

This is essentially maxpass with a twist and I am excited for that.

I still want to know about park hopping.

When will we be able to modify our tickets on our package to include it? Did anyone see that?


----------



## DisneyKidds

luv2cheer92 said:


> You are very, very much in the minority with that. Which is ok. Its often regarded as the best theme park ride in the world. I've ridden it about 15 times and I would gladly pay $15 for it every trip.


I’m with Tony.  I mean, it’s a good experience, overall.  It’s not the greatest ride.  For me there isn’t a whole lot of re-rideability appeal for RotR.  I mean, if it was still boarding groups and I got one I’d go on, or if the line wasn’t crazy…..but once you’ve done it once, and had that first experience, it doesn’t warrant a long wait to do it again and again IMHO, nor will I spend IA$.

Flights of Passage is, again IMHO, a much better ride with great re-ride appeal.


----------



## scrappinginontario

Marionnette said:


> ​I'm not finding anything on the Disney website that confirms this.  But many bloggers have reported it, including our own Deni Sunderly:
> 
> _Similar to Disneyland’s old Disney MaxPass, only one selection can be held at a time, with the exception being when a guest’s next selection time window is more than 120 minutes away. In that case, Disney Genie+ will allow a second selection to be held._​
> https://www.wdwinfo.com/news-storie...ney-world-oct-19-weve-got-all-of-the-details/





Turksmom said:


> Sorry, you are correct. I thought I had read it on the Disney Parks Blog, but it was on another site.
> Here is the quote,
> "Per Walt Disney World, Genie+ will provide guests the ability to book new ride reservations before using a prior one if the next available ride time is far into the future. Meaning that guests won’t be locked out of making new Genie+ selections if it’s the morning and the next available ride time isn’t until later in the afternoon.
> To answer one very common reader question, Walt Disney World has officially confirmed that Genie+ will allow guests to make their next selection 120 minutes (2 hours) in the future even if they have not yet redeemed the first Genie+ selection. This is just like the former legacy or paper FastPass system–and how we’ve said this will work since the original announcement. Nevertheless, it’s nice to have official confirmation."


Thanks.  I truly am hoping both of you are correct and that if a return time is greater than 120 mins out we can pull another one!  Was just wondering if Disney had actually posted this on only bloggers.  I'll hope the bloggers are correct.


HopperFan said:


> I will.  Yes, we love Disney and we've been going non-stop since the parks open. I have trips booked in November, January, April and likely will add June. (normally do 4-6 weeks a year there)  We lived for FP+, it was a true game changer for my son.  DAS is nice but we rely mostly on FP+ and learned how to work it quite well all day long.  It was not a broken system and open to everyone.


Thank you @HopperFan!  I know you will provide a very fair and honest review.  Looking forward to hearing about your experiences.




HopperFan said:


> I know people keep saying this but their recent information makes me wonder about this and even Disney says "next available time" (which is how we usually used FP+) but some of their wording makes me question this. "...  lets you select arrival windows ...". Why would we be selecting windows if we are only offered one? It would read more like we select the attraction.
> 
> We will see soon, one thing I know is I don't think other than how to purchase it they have been very clear on the operation of it - maybe on purpose.


I'm seeing the conflicting information being related to either Genie+ or ILL$.  From the Disney website....

*Option #1: Through Disney Genie+ Service*_
This new service lets you select the next available arrival window for the Lightning Lane entrances, one at a time, throughout regular park hours. More than 40 attractions and entertainment experiences across the Walt Disney World Resort theme parks are included in the service—from classics like Haunted Mansion to thrill rides like Big Thunder Mountain Railroad to newer favorites like Millennium Falcon: Smugglers Run (all experiences are subject to limited availability). Lightning Lane selections can even be made across multiple theme parks with the Park Hopper option. You’ll be able to make your first selection at 7:00 AM on the day of your visit. This service also includes access to interactive Disney PhotoPass Lenses and audio tales. It costs $15 per ticket per day.

*Option #2: By Making an Individual Lightning Lane Entrance Purchase*
Lightning Lane entry as an "á la carte" purchase will be offered at a few of our most popular attractions. This option can be purchased by all Guests—with or without the purchase of Disney Genie+ service—and lets you choose a time to arrive at the Lightning Lane entry at up to 2 attractions each day (purchased one at a time). Current example attractions include Seven Dwarfs Mine Train at Magic Kingdom park and Remy’s Ratatouille Adventure at EPCOT. Guests of a Disney Resort hotel and other select hotels* can make their first purchase starting at 7:00 AM on the day of their visit. All other Guests can make their first purchase at the regular time the park opens. Pricing and availability will vary by date, attraction and park. Be sure to check the My Disney Experience app on the day of your visit for current prices and attraction availability._

Quotes above from the FAQ section here:  *Get Ready to Unleash the Magic of Disney Genie Service Starting October 19, 2021*


----------



## HopperFan

scrappinginontario said:


> I'm seeing the conflicting information being related to either Genie+ or ILL$.  From the Disney website....
> 
> *Option #1: Through Disney Genie+ Service*
> _This new service lets you select the next available arrival window for the Lightning Lane entrances, one at a time, throughout regular park hours. More than 40 attractions and entertainment experiences across the Walt Disney World Resort theme parks are included in the service—from classics like Haunted Mansion to thrill rides like Big Thunder Mountain Railroad to newer favorites like Millennium Falcon: Smugglers Run (all experiences are subject to limited availability). Lightning Lane selections can even be made across multiple theme parks with the Park Hopper option. You’ll be able to make your first selection at 7:00 AM on the day of your visit. This service also includes access to interactive Disney PhotoPass Lenses and audio tales. It costs $15 per ticket per day.
> 
> *Option #2: By Making an Individual Lightning Lane Entrance Purchase*
> Lightning Lane entry as an "á la carte" purchase will be offered at a few of our most popular attractions. This option can be purchased by all Guests—with or without the purchase of Disney Genie+ service—and lets you choose a time to arrive at the Lightning Lane entry at up to 2 attractions each day (purchased one at a time). Current example attractions include Seven Dwarfs Mine Train at Magic Kingdom park and Remy’s Ratatouille Adventure at EPCOT. Guests of a Disney Resort hotel and other select hotels* can make their first purchase starting at 7:00 AM on the day of their visit. All other Guests can make their first purchase at the regular time the park opens. Pricing and availability will vary by date, attraction and park. Be sure to check the My Disney Experience app on the day of your visit for current prices and attraction availability._
> 
> Quotes above from the FAQ section here:  *Get Ready to Unleash the Magic of Disney Genie Service Starting October 19, 2021*



This is def one of those points they are muddying the waters on explanations.  There are a few places they continue to say that we have choices with Genie+.  I know we'll know in a few weeks but it certainly is aggravating they are talking out both sides of their mouth.

*Direct from Disney Website ~*

*What is the difference between Disney Genie service and Disney Genie+ service?*
Disney Genie+ service is an add-on option offered for purchase that* lets you select arrival windows* for our new Lightning Lane entrance at select experiences throughout the Walt Disney World theme parks.

*Disney Genie+ Lightning Lane Selections*
When you take your day to the next level by purchasing Disney Genie+ service, *you can select arrival windows* for Lightning Lane entrances that are available at more than 40 attractions and entertainment across all 4 theme parks, one at a time throughout the day.


----------



## BridgetR3

scrappinginontario said:


> Thanks.  I truly am hoping both of you are correct and that if a return time is greater than 120 mins out we can pull another one!  Was just wondering if Disney had actually posted this on only bloggers.  I'll hope the bloggers are correct.
> Thank you @HopperFan!  I know you will provide a very fair and honest review.  Looking forward to hearing about your experiences.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm seeing the conflicting information being related to either Genie+ or ILL$.  From the Disney website....
> 
> *Option #1: Through Disney Genie+ Service*
> _This new service lets you select the next available arrival window for the Lightning Lane entrances, one at a time, throughout regular park hours. More than 40 attractions and entertainment experiences across the Walt Disney World Resort theme parks are included in the service—from classics like Haunted Mansion to thrill rides like Big Thunder Mountain Railroad to newer favorites like Millennium Falcon: Smugglers Run (all experiences are subject to limited availability). Lightning Lane selections can even be made across multiple theme parks with the Park Hopper option. *You’ll be able to make your first selection at 7:00 AM on the day of your visit.* This service also includes access to interactive Disney PhotoPass Lenses and audio tales. It costs $15 per ticket per day.
> 
> *Option #2: By Making an Individual Lightning Lane Entrance Purchase*
> Lightning Lane entry as an "á la carte" purchase will be offered at a few of our most popular attractions. This option can be purchased by all Guests—with or without the purchase of Disney Genie+ service—and lets you choose a time to arrive at the Lightning Lane entry at up to 2 attractions each day (purchased one at a time). Current example attractions include Seven Dwarfs Mine Train at Magic Kingdom park and Remy’s Ratatouille Adventure at EPCOT. *Guests of a Disney Resort hotel and other select hotels* can make their first purchase starting at 7:00 AM on the day of their visit. All other Guests can make their first purchase at the regular time the park opens.* Pricing and availability will vary by date, attraction and park. Be sure to check the My Disney Experience app on the day of your visit for current prices and attraction availability._
> 
> Quotes above from the FAQ section here:  *Get Ready to Unleash the Magic of Disney Genie Service Starting October 19, 2021*



So according to the words I placed in bold above, onsite guests only get an advantage at IA$ and not G+......losing more and more of a reason to stay onsite.


----------



## scrappinginontario

BridgetR3 said:


> So according to the words I placed in bold above, onsite guests only get an advantage at IA$ and not G+......losing more and more of a reason to stay onsite.


I interpret as:

Onsite guests with Genie+ can select their first Genie+ reservation at 7:00AM and, purchase 1 IALL$ selection at 7:00AM.

Guests who are not staying onsite who have Genie+ will also be able to select their first Genie+ reservation at 7:00AM BUT, need to wait until park opening to purchase their first IALL$ selection.


----------



## scrappinginontario

HopperFan said:


> This is def one of those points they are muddying the waters on explanations.  There are a few places they continue to say that we have choices with Genie+.  I know we'll know in a few weeks but it certainly is aggravating they are talking out both sides of their mouth.
> 
> *Direct from Disney Website ~*
> 
> *What is the difference between Disney Genie service and Disney Genie+ service?*
> Disney Genie+ service is an add-on option offered for purchase that* lets you select arrival windows* for our new Lightning Lane entrance at select experiences throughout the Walt Disney World theme parks.
> 
> *Disney Genie+ Lightning Lane Selections*
> When you take your day to the next level by purchasing Disney Genie+ service, *you can select arrival windows* for Lightning Lane entrances that are available at more than 40 attractions and entertainment across all 4 theme parks, one at a time throughout the day.


It is your bolded  titles where I feel they are making the differentiation.  One is 'Genie+' alone ($15/day) and the other is 'Genie+ Lightning Lane Selections' (attractions such as RotR, SDMT, etc.)

As you say, we'll know in 10 short days.


----------



## HopperFan

scrappinginontario said:


> It is your bolded  titles where I feel they are making the differentiation.  One is 'Genie+' alone ($15/day) and the other is 'Genie+ Lightning Lane Selections' (attractions such as RotR, SDMT, etc.)
> 
> As you say, we'll know in 10 short days.



This is where Disney has already failed miserably --- the Individual Purchased Passes should not have been called the same thing as the Genie+ Passes. It is confusing on every level.  Genie+ should have been "Magic Carpet Pass" and Lightning Lane should have stood on it's own as it is - a purchased pass. The actual lanes could have had two names on them in two colors so that both groups knew that is where they return.  Instead we have them blurring the line with same names for two completely different products. 

This is the page from the website. They are both called Lightning Lane, just one is Genie+ and one is Individual.  You can see under Genie+ (only referring to using the Lightning Lane as a path to enter) is not the pay for pass and says you can select arrival windows.

The next one is the pay for pass where you can also select windows.


----------



## JenSop

0FF TO NEVERLAND said:


> Good luck to anyone who just wants to wait on the normal lines. Disney will do everything in their power to make you pay. I expect it to be slow as hell. You know it, and I know it
> 
> I will never get over having to pay for something that was a beautiful perk and free for everyone. I don't blame them. Everyone complains. Everyone hated it. Everyone screamed. Disney said" Yeah so what, you're still going to come anyway " Same with the nighttime shows. They don't care cause people will still come. Who in the HELL wants to get up everyday at 7 if you are not rope dropping to book this? I sleep in till at least 8:30-9 on Disney park days. So instead of 60 days before being stressed. Now we get to be stressed every morning of our trip
> 
> And quite honestly, anyone who pays for this, has no right to complain about anything Disney does to nickel and dime its customers. If you want real change, hit them in the pockets and just don't go. If we just continue to go, we're the fools who just complain and still take it.
> 
> In the end, it is what it is and we're probably going to just accept this new Disney chapek + era. Remember folks, once this works, it will only get more expensive.. and we will be saying the same thing..with the same result



I hear you.   We are NOT morning people.  With Fastpass+ we could get up late morning and hit the parks with our afternoon fastpasses.  We knew we had them, and we were good.  THis is back to being the Wild West.  I am SO disappointed.  But it's Disney.  I will outlive Chapek, that bastard.  Hopefully things will be good again.


----------



## JenSop

0FF TO NEVERLAND said:


> Man I’m still so angry about this. 7am!!! I need to wake up everyday of my trip at 7am if I want to book something. I want to sleep on my vacation also. I don’t rope drop. Now I gotta stress every morning of everyday of my trip if I wanted to buy this overpriced money grab. It’s ROTR lottery…everyday of your trip
> 
> I like sleep Disney. Comeon. It’s a vacation also. Don’t force people to wake up early


 Yes yes yes!!!
We are also not morning people!  We sleep in.  
With Fastpass+ we booked our rides for late afternoon and slept in everyday.  This early morning crap is...CRAP!  SO disappointed!


----------



## scrappinginontario

HopperFan said:


> *This is where Disney has already failed miserably --- the Individual Purchased Passes should not have been called the same thing as the Genie+ Passes. It is confusing on every level. * Genie+ should have been "Magic Carpet Pass" and Lightning Lane should have stood on it's own as it is - a purchased pass. The actual lanes could have had two names on them in two colors so that both groups knew that is where they return.  Instead we have them blurring the line with same names for two completely different products.
> 
> This is the page from the website. They are both called Lightning Lane, just one is Genie+ and one is Individual.  You can see under Genie+ (only referring to using the Lightning Lane as a path to enter) is not the pay for pass and says you can select arrival windows.
> 
> The next one is the pay for pass where you can also select windows.
> 
> View attachment 611613


I agree 100%!!!  This is so much more confusing than it needs to be!  I like your differentiation of titles too!  Would easily make things so much clearer!


----------



## elgerber

scrappinginontario said:


> I interpret as:
> 
> Onsite guests with Genie+ can select their first Genie+ reservation at 7:00AM and, purchase 1 IALL$ selection at 7:00AM.
> 
> Guests who are not staying onsite who have Genie+ will also be able to select their first Genie+ reservation at 7:00AM BUT, need to wait until park opening to purchase their first IALL$ selection.


This is how I was reading it, and hoping I read it wrong. When will we be able to purchase a 2nd and will there be any left?  Because that affects what we would do at EE or rope drop.


----------



## Jonfw2

How can you say it’s confusing when you’ve never personally experienced it yet?


----------



## HopperFan

scrappinginontario said:


> I agree 100%!!!  This is so much more confusing than it needs to be!  I like your differentiation of titles too!  Would easily make things so much clearer!



The minute they announced the names I knew it was a problem.  I mean the Individual Purchase has nothing to do with Genie+ so just let it be the Lightning Pass - a name that implies that is fastest route to go.  Then let the Genie+ passes actually have something to do with the Genie so guests are clear what they are doing.  They are offering two completely different products you can buy through MDE - differentiate them.  Aside from all the confusion this is and will cause ................. I see the poor CMs at the lines being worn down by people confused.  I mean here we are almost what 10 years of FP+ and guests this summer were still trying to enter that line just because they had a ticket or a MagicBand or stayed in a hotel - but no FP+.


----------



## DisneyKidds

luv2cheer92 said:


> Lol. I guess the bolding didn't make my post clear because you still don't seem to understand what I was saying. Oh well.


Luv’s not the only one…I don’t have a clue what you are talking about.  I think your original point was that RotR was widely considered to be the best ride anywhere, well worth IA$ dollars?  There are a lot of people who would disagree with that….if that was something you were trying to say.


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

Jonfw2 said:


> How can you say it’s confusing when you’ve never personally experienced it yet?


The terminology itself is confusing.  At least to me.


----------



## JenSop

Here's a question... what if you want to ride rides in the afternoon.  How do you play the LL and Genie+ game then?  Like, if I wake up at 7am, will I be able to book a 3pm ROTR?  (And then go back to sleep?)
But at the same time, is it worth it to pay for Genie+ that day, hoping I can ride ToT and RnRC in the afternoon as well.  Again, knowing I do NOT want to go to the park in the morning.
Ugh.  This is so frustrating!


----------



## DisneyKidds

Grasshopper2016 said:


> Speaking for myself, we used to ride almost everything with Fastpass+—many rides more than once—and rarely, if ever, waited in long lines.  Now, there is no way to recreate that experience. The closest you can come is to pay an additional ~ $140 per day for a family of four (Genie+ and two IA$), and even then you can’t ride anything twice without waiting in a long line.


Truer words never spoken!

It’s that reality that actually makes me pay attention to reported DVC buy-back threads, not that I own resorts Disney has extended such offers on.


----------



## BridgetR3

JenSop said:


> Yes yes yes!!!
> We are also not morning people!  We sleep in.
> With Fastpass+ we booked our rides for late afternoon and slept in everyday.  This early morning crap is...CRAP!  SO disappointed!



THIS!!!!  This is my frustration!  We did the same and honestly getting up one or two mornings last year to get ROTR was still junk because we are night owls and love to hang out after the parks.  We always stay out late and stay up late just visiting (because after all it's VACATION!!) but we also sleep late and never rope drop.  I do not want to be the one responsible for waking up at 7 a.m. every morning of my trip to plan my fastpass (yes Genie whatever) selections.  

This is not only an expense but a complicated mess in our vacation.   As my 15 year old said last night, "Mom, it's just not worth it."


----------



## MainMom

BridgetR3 said:


> So according to the words I placed in bold above, onsite guests only get an advantage at IA$ and not G+......losing more and more of a reason to stay onsite.



I thought I had read in rumors that the 7am was just for resort guests for Genie+. I guess that’s why it’s a rumor.


----------



## MainMom

BridgetR3 said:


> THIS!!!!  This is my frustration!  We did the same and honestly getting up one or two mornings last year to get ROTR was still junk because we are night owls and love to hang out after the parks.  We always stay out late and stay up late just visiting (because after all it's VACATION!!) but we also sleep late and never rope drop.  I do not want to be the one responsible for waking up at 7 a.m. every morning of my trip to plan my fastpass (yes Genie whatever) selections.
> 
> This is not only an expense but a complicated mess in our vacation.   As my 15 year old said last night, "Mom, it's just not worth it."


We ARE rope droppers and this is not how I want to be starting my day. I liked it pre-booked with my plan ready to go.


----------



## katyringo

So can you call and it now or on October 19th you can add it to your package?


----------



## 0FF TO NEVERLAND

Oh dining reservations are going to be a nightmare with this crap. You are basically given a time to come back to ride that you can't modify. So if it ends up on your dining reservation, tough luck. Fast pass was free so I could deal with that problem ( I also had much advance notice to make fast pass time selections ) 

At least with fast pass I can religiously look at my phone to get what I want sooner or later


----------



## scrappinginontario

Jonfw2 said:


> How can you say it’s confusing when you’ve never personally experienced it yet?


I already find it confusing!  Calling both lines Lightning Lanes when one is secured via paying a daily price to get Genie+ and others can only be obtained by paying for that individual attraction is confusing to me.


----------



## scrappinginontario

0FF TO NEVERLAND said:


> Oh dining reservations are going to be a nightmare with this crap. You are basically given a time to come back to ride that you can't modify. So if it ends up on your dining reservation, tough luck. Fast pass was free so I could deal with that problem ( I also had much advance notice to make fast pass time selections )
> 
> At least with fast pass I can religiously look at my phone to get what I want sooner or later


When trying to obtain a reservation using Genie+ I believe it will show all available attractions that can be selected and their next available time.  Their times will vary.  I won't choose one that conflicts with my ADR.


----------



## katyringo

0FF TO NEVERLAND said:


> Oh dining reservations are going to be a nightmare with this crap. You are basically given a time to come back to ride that you can't modify. So if it ends up on your dining reservation, tough luck. Fast pass was free so I could deal with that problem ( I also had much advance notice to make fast pass time selections )
> 
> At least with fast pass I can religiously look at my phone to get what I want sooner or later


It doesn't work like that.  You will be able to see the time. And can just not choose it.


----------



## DL1WDW2

I believe a few guests have already asked about their dining reservations and possible conflict … Seems the castmembers are advising priority is given to keeping the correct dining reservation and attractions castmember will allow your attraction entry afterwards.
This is the instructions given to me for my SciFi Breakfast reservation and early morn boarding for Rise of the Resistance recently.


I agree the MDE / Genie is confusing to interpret .  It seems everything I read is followed by a conflict and Not , maybe not, this is not, could not be , possibly is Not but maybe … Not happy !


----------



## tinkerhon

ENJDisneyFan said:


> The terminology itself is confusing.  At least to me.



Was just going to post the same---   has nothing to do with experiencing it yet---  the verbiage itself is totally confusing---   and they didnt need to name both of them LL---


----------



## hayesdvc

Great thread.

Trying to get updated answers/confirmations for the following (using examples):

All are non-paid ride options staying on property

1.    I make a Genie+ reservation at 7AM for Slinky Dog.   Can I choose my time based on availability (just like FP+)?
2.    When I make the reservation at 7AM, the time I get/make (based on the answer to #1) for SD is 10AM.  I read that I can either make another reservation 120 minutes from the time of my previous reservation request OR after I scan into the ride.  I can make a new Genie+ reservation at 9AM.  Right?  Would this be the only way to have two open reservations at one time?
3.   What is the benefit of buying Genie+ at one time for my entire trip versus of just buying the day of before 7AM?
4.   With FP+ after using your initial three,  if Slinky Dog continue to have availability, you could select it over and over.   With Genie+, I select Slinky Dog once, even if there is plenty of availability, this ride will not be an option for me to select again during the day.  Correct?
5.  When I scan in at Slinky Dog at 10AM, I go to select another ride.   Do we know the soonest time that would be available; 10:05, 10:15, 10:30, etc?
6.  Will MDE not be updated to the night of the 18th at the earliest ?


----------



## HopperFan

scrappinginontario said:


> When trying to obtain a reservation using Genie+ I believe it will show all available attractions that can be selected and their next available time.  Their times will vary.  I won't choose one that conflicts with my ADR.



*Agree.*  Even the mockups show that one can scroll through MY DAY and select an attraction whose times work for them.  If they want to see any tips that are supposedly being created based on one's existing plans you go to MY TIP BOARD.

Everything I've seen about Genie is to help one work your day based on information the Genie already knows about you.  So I don't see them offering you a Lightning Lane that overlaps with an ADR.  But then Disney IT could be called GL-*IT*-CH.






jknc said:


> Reminder that Genie+ and LL is optional.



Yes, they are both optional and guests can continue to visit the same as they are now.  Even in the old FP+ days MANY guests did not use FP+ at all .... those folks will continue to come. 

The rest was unnecessary.


----------



## Thumper99

Marionnette said:


> My advice is to not stress out over it. You really can't change what it is going to be at this point. Just go in as an educated visitor and gather as much useful info from those who have gone before you.
> 
> To answer some of your questions:
> 
> You can purchase Genie+ in advance for every day of your package. Or you can purchase it on a daily basis, beginning at 12M the day of your intended visit.
> At 7 AM, if you're an onsite guest, you can purchase IA$/ILL$ attractions. You will be able to choose from a number of return times for those attractions.
> At 7 AM, all guests who have purchased Genie+ can book their first LL reservation. You will be offered only "next available" time slots for each attraction.
> Just like paper FP, you will not be able to have more than one Genie+ LL reservation at a time UNLESS the LL reservation that you just made is 120+ minutes away. In that case, you will be allowed to pull another LL reservation for another attraction for an earlier time slot.
> You will only be allowed to use Genie+ or IA$/ILL$ once per attraction per day. So if you buy ROTR for 10 AM, you cannot purchase it again for later that day. With Genie+  if you've used it to get a POTC reservation in the morning, you will not be able to get another POTC time slot later in the day.
> There's no knowing at this time how quickly Genie+ or IA$/ILL$ selections will get taken. So much of it will be a function of how many Genie+ get sold and how many LL spots will be allocated each hour. My feeling is that the more Genie+ that get sold for the day, the more time slots Disney will allocate to Genie+.


Thank you so much for the clarification!!  This helps a lot!!!


----------



## luv2cheer92

It's not confusing at all to me. Lightning Lane is the name of the actual queue itself, there are just different ways to get to use it.


----------



## jknc

I love this.

Math = family of 5, 4 days, plus LL = about $660

I hope there’s a disclosure about this when folks book rooms/tickets.


----------



## Ariel620

I don't see the advantage of buying G+ upfront unless the pricing scheme changes.  Ie. I won't buy it ahead of time, even though I plan on buying it.  We have 7 park days, I will probably buy it for 4 park Days (MKx2, HSx1, EPx1). I will be able to enjoy AK with just a normal rope drop.  

However I might buy it upfront (and be locked into it) if there was any advantage to do so, or I might even buy more than 4 days if there was any advantage.  I'm kind of surprised it is a flat $15 per day, which means people will optimize those days and have less park days.  I'm surprise they don't tier it, like they do the park tickets (ie. $15 per day for the first 4 days, then $10 per day for days 5-6, then $8 per day for days 6-8, etc).  I seriously think they would sell more that way (I would buy more that way... I would buy more days of G+ and I would also buy more days of park tickets instead of maximizing each park day so much.

Then again, maybe that is what disney wants.  Maybe they would rather I didn't buy G+ for all 7 park days so I'm not clogging up the lightning lane on days 5-7 (keeping LL waits short)?


----------



## Jonfw2

jknc said:


> I love this.
> 
> Math = family of 5, 4 days, plus LL = about $660
> 
> I hope there’s a disclosure about this when folks book rooms/tickets.


Would the disclosure say “this is totally optional”?


----------



## nurseberta

mousestruck said:


> I have been wondering about that as well.  I think we'll have to wait and see.  What do you mean by "stacking"?  Is it possible we'll be able to book more than one at a time if the first available time slot for our #1 pick is late in the day?



I think what I read is that if you get at Genie+LL time for 5pm, then after 120 min, you can book another one for 10am, but I’m not sure if this is true or assumption


----------



## TexanInTheMidwest

Has anyone with an annual pass + resort stay been able to add Genie+ for any of their days? It starts right, smack in the middle of my trip....


----------



## CWTC

TexanInTheMidwest said:


> Has anyone with an annual pass + resort stay been able to add Genie+ for any of their days? It starts right, smack in the middle of my trip....


We haven’t tried - I had read that AP holders would need to buy it on a day by day basis.


----------



## jknc

Jonfw2 said:


> Would the disclosure say “this is totally optional”?



Yep.

The “I didn’t know anything about it” crowd will be massive.


----------



## Jonfw2

jknc said:


> Yep.
> 
> The “I didn’t know anything about it” crowd will be massive.


I was flying into Orlando once and the family across the aisle from me was trying to decide what fast passes to get and what restaurants to book- they decided they wanted to go to the Princess breakfast in the castle.


----------



## g-dad66

luv2cheer92 said:


> It's not confusing at all to me. Lightning Lane is the name of the actual queue itself, there are just different ways to get to use it.



Right. It used to be called the Fast Pass Lane. It's now called the Lightning Lane. There is only one Lightning Lane per attraction.

But Tier 1 Attaction Lightning Lanes lighten your wallet more than Tier 2 Attraction Lightning Lanes do.


----------



## Einstein509

JenSop said:


> Yes yes yes!!!
> We are also not morning people!  We sleep in.
> With Fastpass+ we booked our rides for late afternoon and slept in everyday.  This early morning crap is...CRAP!  SO disappointed!


Dobar Dan, yes totally agree.

This.Is.Crap.

Not putting in more money to feed this monster.


----------



## Violet Parr

Not sure if we can post twitter acounts here, but this popped up in my twitter feed. 

ETA: link won't load, so clearly not, but a new twitter account re: genie basically suggests not to trust Disney's posted wait times in the Genie + era.


----------



## FRANKTSJR

Yes, 100% agree with JenSop, Dobar Dan and Einstein509. 
FP+ worked perfectly for me and couldn't beat the price.


----------



## luv2cheer92

g-dad66 said:


> Right. It used to be called the Fast Pass Lane. It's now called the Lightning Lane. There is only one Lightning Lane per attraction.
> 
> But Tier 1 Attaction Lightning Lanes lighten your wallet more than Tier 2 Attraction Lightning Lanes do.


Yep. I'm really not sure what is confusing about that.


----------



## DSLRuser

Cabius said:


> It's just to get people used to spending money in that area of the park, for when TRON opens (any decade now...)
> 
> But really, it had to be between Space and Peter Pan's Flight right? I imagine people will be more willing to pay money for a thrill ride whereas rides that cater to families with small kids make that a more expensive and less attractive proposition.



Could you imagine...$10 up charge to ride  52 second ride if Peter Pan were included.


----------



## katyjeka

jknc said:


> Reminder that Genie+ and LL is optional.
> 
> I hope it keeps the poors at home. Thank you.


We go quite often, bought season passes, and are far from poor.(not that it's anyone's business) I have no interest in Genie and we will tour the old fashioned way. Luckily our December trip is almost 2 weeks long  so we have plenty of time. We just don't like being so scheduled. I hated fast passes and they were free.  Im sorry but your comment is a little mean and really not called for.


----------



## asumom

tony67 said:


> Wow -
> $15 to ride RoR - seems to me that ride is one and done - very underwhelmed to say the least
> $10 to ride 7DMT in MK and $7 from EE in AK - EE is the bargain here
> 
> Space Mountain - how often does that break down - will be interesting to see how many will actually pay for this.
> 
> Will they continue to inflate the wait times?
> 
> 
> BTW- I am OK with the $15 a day for the other rides - that would work for me I think - will have to see how it pans out - if it is only once per ride per day - then no


Expedition Everest is a walk on in the mornings and evenings, for the most part. Other times, the single rider line goes fast.


----------



## luv2cheer92

DSLRuser said:


> Could you imagine...$10 up charge to ride  52 second ride if Peter Pan were included.


Peter Pan is a longer ride (time wise) than Space Mountain if you're using that as a comparison.

But I have no idea why people would use the length of the ride as a reason for worth, the wait time is a much higher factor, for me at least.


----------



## snikki

The whole picking your arrival time is confusing. It says you can pick your arrival window but then I’ve seen it state that you can pick the next arrival time. I’m thinking it means you can pick the next arrival time by picking which attraction you want to do next. So if HM has a 12 pm arrival time but pirates has an 11 am arrival time then you’ve been allowed to choose your arrival time. But who knows.

Everything else I’m good with.


----------



## JessicaW1234

katyringo said:


> So can you call and it now or on October 19th you can add it to your package?


What do you do if you bought tickets through an outside vendor? How do you add it on then?


----------



## g-dad66

snikki said:


> The whole picking your arrival time is confusing. It says you can pick your arrival window but then I’ve seen it state that you can pick the next arrival time. I’m thinking it means you can pick the next arrival time by picking which attraction you want to do next. So if HM has a 12 pm arrival time but pirates has an 11 am arrival time then you’ve been allowed to choose your arrival time. But who knows.
> 
> Everything else I’m good with.



I think that's right.  I think Genie+ will be like the old FP- (paper) where you got the next available time for that particular attraction.

ILL$ will be like FP+ in that it will give you a choice of available times.


----------



## HopperFan

JessicaW1234 said:


> What do you do if you bought tickets through an outside vendor? How do you add it on then?



Do you have your tickets linked to your MDE? If you do then Disney can see them and you should be able to add it.




snikki said:


> The whole picking your arrival time is confusing. It says *you can pick your arrival window *but then I’ve seen it state that* you can pick the next arrival time*. I’m thinking it means you can pick the next arrival time by picking which attraction you want to do next. So if HM has a 12 pm arrival time but pirates has an 11 am arrival time then you’ve been allowed to choose your arrival time. But who knows.
> 
> Everything else I’m good with.



They have printed on their website BOTH, so we really don't know.  Guessing we just have to wait and see in operation because they aren't giving out much info other than how to pay for it.


----------



## JessicaW1234

HopperFan said:


> Do you have your tickets linked to your MDE? If you do then Disney can see them and you should be able to add it.


Do you think you can add it somehow in the MDE app?


----------



## HopperFan

JessicaW1234 said:


> Do you think you can add it somehow in the MDE app?



From Disney website ~

" It will also be available as a single-day purchase through the My Disney Experience app. If you have an existing ticket, you will be able to modify it to include Disney Genie+ service within the app."

I hope so because if we have to call .... we are all doomed.  I think they said you can go online and do after midnight of the day ... so makes sense we can do on our MDE.


----------



## snikki

HopperFan said:


> They have printed on their website BOTH, so we really don't know.  Guessing we just have to wait and see in operation because they aren't giving out much info other than how to pay for it.



It feels like they purposely want to confuse us.


----------



## HopperFan

snikki said:


> It feels like they purposely want to confuse us.



100%.  The crazier you make people, the more they panic and the more likely they will spend the money without thinking it through. 

A perfect example is the nightmare they created selling merchandise on Oct 1.  People were throwing money at them for stuff if they thought about it, would realize is grossly overpriced.


----------



## jknc

The wait time data from TP becomes even more important when determining the value of G+ and LL?


----------



## jknc

jknc said:


> The wait time data from TP becomes even more important when determining the value of G+ and LL?



Lol, Twitter user believes Disney needs to be more transparent on wait times or they’ll be sued for fraud.

I love America.


----------



## champagne&disney

I did a one-day, one-park ticket at Universal back in May. They wanted $200 for the Express Pass which was more than the cost of my park ticket. I’ll pay $15 a day (and the occasional extra for the IA$) all day compared to that.

I look forward to this release and can’t wait to have faster lines again. Disney is finally catching up to every other amusement/theme park by charging for access to express lines.


----------



## CWTC

champagne&disney said:


> I did a one-day, one-park ticket at Universal back in May. They wanted $200 for the Express Pass which was more than the cost of my park ticket. I’ll pay $15 a day (and the occasional extra for the IA$) all day compared to that.
> 
> I look forward to this release and can’t wait to have faster lines again. Disney is finally catching up to every other amusement/theme park by charging for access to express lines.


The issue though is false equivalency between G+ and express pass. They are nowhere near the same products.


----------



## shawthorne44

HopperFan said:


> From Disney website ~
> 
> " It will also be available as a single-day purchase through the My Disney Experience app. If you have an existing ticket, you will be able to modify it to include Disney Genie+ service within the app."
> 
> I hope so because if we have to call .... we are all doomed.  I think they said you can go online and do after midnight of the day ... so makes sense we can do on our MDE.



That is good news. What I'd read was to call Disney Reservations. I was trying to decide which I dreaded more, paying the $450 or waiting 10 hours on Disney hold.


----------



## TioAdis78

CWTC said:


> The issue though is false equivalency between G+ and express pass. They are nowhere near the same products.


Very true, there’s no Express Pass equivalent at Disney, not really, anyway. Genie +, (and the old Fastpass system) is just a return time manager, whereas Universal’s Express Pass is a true, front of the line ticket that’s so immediate that it requires no planning at all


----------



## katyringo

If they run the tickets like maxpass you will be able to buy tickets with genie plus included and tickets without it.  
My guess is if you currently have tickets from an outside vendor not as part of a vacation package then you will want to buy genie plus daily while you are there. This is how maxpass worked. You just purchased it in the app and then you could start using it once scanned in the park.

so if you have tickets where it's not included And you can start selections at 7am- Disney has said genie plus purchase for the day will start at midnight for that day.... this doesn't mean it sells out and you need to be on at midnight- it just means that when buying it opens.

so if you are planning to buy it day of- and want to make a selection at 7am- I would make sure you have it purchased by 7am.

I know this is very new for WDW but the more info comes out about the more it is incredibly similar to maxpass just with those additions lightening lanes uncharged.

Because DisneyWorld will have early entry too for resorts guests let me tell you how maxpass worked for us on a Disneyland day during Christmas break crowds. The difference here is that at Disneyland you had to be scanned into the park to start using it while at WDW it will open at 7am. You all- THiS IS IMPORTANT- because if the info about 120 minutes before booking next one is true- then that means if you book one at 7- your next one is at 9. You will have entered MK at 830 for early entry. You could have rode 2-3 rides early entry, and have two lightening lanes booked by the time the park official opens. If those have fairly quick return times you could be booking your third lightening lane pass by 10-11am.  And for those who want to purchase the lightening lanes- book those for the afternoon when crowds pick up.

we used maxpass at Disneyland during capacity Christmas crowds. We had what was known there at magic morning. We were in the park half hour early and booked our first fastpasses for offical Opening at 830. We could then make a selection 90 minutes later. By using magic morning to hit space mountain, fantasy land, and buzz light year and by 9am we were booking our second fastpass abs about to ride with our first.

I know this is a big change but it really does work well. And it's flexible. And we could stack a couple by watching them while on a hotel break for the evening.

And for those who don't want to wake up early it works good too! Once you wake up you can get on and start booking. Remember everyone else is still having to wait 120 minutes between booking or using what they have.  

we will start figuring out which rides run out of lightening lane passes each day abs then those become the ones you wanna book first in your day.  Example was at California adventure radiator racers would usually run out by early afternoon.


----------



## HopperFan

shawthorne44 said:


> That is good news. What I'd read was to call Disney Reservations. I was trying to decide which I dreaded more, paying the $450 or waiting 10 hours on Disney hold.



Do you have a package? That might be different because it's something that if you cancelled, all would cancel.  PP I was answering had independent tickets.

From website ~

"If you have an existing package, please call the travel provider who originally arranged your booking or the Disney Reservation Center at (407) 939-5277."


----------



## champagne&disney

CWTC said:


> The issue though is false equivalency between G+ and express pass. They are nowhere near the same products.


But it’s what we have and I’m choosing positivity. I had a great time at DLR with MaxPass and I’m sure I’ll do the same at WDW with this.

Selifishly, I hope most people don’t purchase it so I can have shorter lines!


----------



## Marionnette

katyringo said:


> If they run the tickets like maxpass you will be able to buy tickets with genie plus included and tickets without it.
> My guess is if you currently have tickets from an outside vendor not as part of a vacation package then you will want to buy genie plus daily while you are there. This is how maxpass worked. You just purchased it in the app and then you could start using it once scanned in the park.
> 
> so if you have tickets where it's not included And you can start selections at 7am- Disney has said genie plus purchase for the day will start at midnight for that day.... this doesn't mean it sells out and you need to be on at midnight- it just means that when buying it opens.
> 
> so if you are planning to buy it day of- and want to make a selection at 7am- I would make sure you have it purchased by 7am.
> 
> I know this is very new for WDW but the more info comes out about the more it is incredibly similar to maxpass just with those additions lightening lanes uncharged.
> 
> Because DisneyWorld will have early entry too for resorts guests let me tell you how maxpass worked for us on a Disneyland day during Christmas break crowds. The difference here is that at Disneyland you had to be scanned into the park to start using it while at WDW it will open at 7am. You all- THiS IS IMPORTANT- because if the info about 120 minutes before booking next one is true- then that means if you book one at 7- your next one is at 9. You will have entered MK at 830 for early entry. You could have rode 2-3 rides early entry, and have two lightening lanes booked by the time the park official opens. If those have fairly quick return times you could be booking your third lightening lane pass by 10-11am.  And for those who want to purchase the lightening lanes- book those for the afternoon when crowds pick up.
> 
> we used maxpass at Disneyland during capacity Christmas crowds. We had what was known there at magic morning. We were in the park half hour early and booked our first fastpasses for offical Opening at 830. We could then make a selection 90 minutes later. By using magic morning to hit space mountain, fantasy land, and buzz light year and by 9am we were booking our second fastpass abs about to ride with our first.
> 
> I know this is a big change but it really does work well. And it's flexible. And we could stack a couple by watching them while on a hotel break for the evening.
> 
> And for those who don't want to wake up early it works good too! Once you wake up you can get on and start booking. Remember everyone else is still having to wait 120 minutes between booking or using what they have.
> 
> we will start figuring out which rides run out of lightening lane passes each day abs then those become the ones you wanna book first in your day.  Example was at California adventure radiator racers would usually run out by early afternoon.


Thank you for taking the time to post this explanation as to how MP worked for you at DL. Even though Genie+ isn't MP and DL is not WDW, much of what you wrote sounds encouraging for those who are willing to purchase Genie+. And you're right that with time, people will learn how to maximize it. 

But I feel bad for the genie-pigs that will take one for the team next week. They're the ones who are flying into this blindly.


----------



## Dreams&wishes

I find incredible that the communication from disney has been so poor about this. So many unanswered questions and uncertain points. I can't believe anyone booking any other holiday with so many unknown points, especially considering that time spent in a line could make or break a vacation.


----------



## jknc

Dreams&wishes said:


> I find incredible that the communication from disney has been so poor about this. So many unanswered questions and uncertain points. I can't believe anyone booking any other holiday with so many unknown points, especially considering that time spent in a line could make or break a vacation.



I feel badly for those going when this gets started.


----------



## CWTC

Dreams&wishes said:


> I find incredible that the communication from disney has been so poor about this. So many unanswered questions and uncertain points. I can't believe anyone booking any other holiday with so many unknown points, especially considering that time spent in a line could make or break a vacation.


I don’t disagree but we’ve been booked since 11/2020. We have adrs, boo bash tickets, and dessert party reservations. So we’re all in.


----------



## Grasshopper2016

One possible reason to book Genie+ in advance for your whole trip: what if it sells out?  I can imagine Disney limiting the number of Genie+ sales per day (perhaps on a park by park basis, based on park reservations).  Otherwise, on a crowded day, too many people will buy Genie+, which will make the LL lines so long that everyone who bought it will complain about not getting their money's worth.  

If there is a danger that Genie+ will sell out, you might want to buy it well in advance to make sure you get it before supplies run out.  Which, in turn, will necessitate your purchasing it for your whole trip, including your EPCOT and AK days, even though it isn't really worth it for those parks given the no re-rides rule.  Which, in turn, will make even more money for Disney.

On the other hand, I can see Disney selling Genie+ to as many people as are willing to pay for it, and when they complain that the LL line is 45 minutes long, saying, "Well, it's still less than half the standby wait, so you got your money's worth!"

What do people think?  Will sales be limited?


----------



## Alexis56578

I'm not sure that they'll limit sales themselves since I expect rides to be limited just like Fastpasses were. There will only be so many available Space Mountain passes


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## Marionnette

Grasshopper2016 said:


> One possible reason to book Genie+ in advance for your whole trip: what if it sells out?  I can imagine Disney limiting the number of Genie+ sales per day (perhaps on a park by park basis, based on park reservations).  Otherwise, on a crowded day, too many people will buy Genie+, which will make the LL lines so long that everyone who bought it will complain about not getting their money's worth.
> 
> If there is a danger that Genie+ will sell out, you might want to buy it well in advance to make sure you get it before supplies run out.  Which, in turn, will necessitate your purchasing it for your whole trip, including your EPCOT and AK days, even though it isn't really worth it for those parks given the no re-rides rule.  Which, in turn, will make even more money for Disney.
> 
> On the other hand, I can see Disney selling Genie+ to as many people as are willing to pay for it, and when they complain that the LL line is 45 minutes long, saying, "Well, it's still less than half the standby wait, so you got your money's worth!"
> 
> What do people think?  Will sales be limited?


Theoretically, yes. Sales of Genie+ will have a cap. But IMO, that cap will be very high and will likely almost never be met. Disney can just adjust the LL-to-standby ratio in order to keep the LL queue moving efficiently.


----------



## Grasshopper2016

Alexis56578 said:


> I'm not sure that they'll limit sales themselves since I expect rides to be limited just like Fastpasses were. There will only be so many available Space Mountain passes


But then, if I purchase Genie+ for a day and am only able to get a couple of LL passes (and nothing for the best rides), I’m going to be very angry and demand my money back.


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## HopperFan

Dreams&wishes said:


> I find incredible that the communication from disney has been so poor about this. So many unanswered questions and uncertain points. I can't believe anyone booking any other holiday with so many unknown points, especially considering that time spent in a line could make or break a vacation.



But it's always been that way - the number of people that show up to Disney not having a clue is HUGE.  Just like a previous poster said about people on the plane with him discussing what they want to do and where they want to eat - Princess meal.  Most my time at Disney is with just with my son who is nonverbal. So we take lots of time people watching, hearing all the conversations around us etc ........... it's amazing the things people say. I wish I had started writing it all down because it's book worthy.

In July a family tried to enter the FP+ line which they thought they were entitled to because "they had a MagicBand" to all the people who want to just walk up to any table service without ADR, love the parents trying to walk in to Cinderella Royal Table without an ADR.  And this is many times on every single trip that these things happen. My DD worked there, have had friends who worked there ... the stories are hysterical. One lost count on how many people ask when they are going to put up the MK bubble when it rains.  Seriously you know these people didn't do their homework.

You are right, no way I'd book an international trip or a cruise or any trip that cost me thousands of dollars without doing my homework but they sure do for Disney.  They don't do their homework when Disney puts it all out there over and over again - so they won't care if they know nothing now.  In the end they'll have the same trip.




Marionnette said:


> Theoretically, yes. Sales of Genie+ will have a cap. But IMO, that cap will be very high and will likely almost never be met. Disney can just adjust the LL-to-standby ratio in order to keep the LL queue moving efficiently.



I always say the cap is when Disney says they are going to stop selling, and likely that is only to drive you to another day.  There are "cap ranges" just like a park, like After Hours, like Parties.  If it is anything that doesn't have a finite number of chairs or parking spots .... it will be sold as long as they decide.

In this case it will likely be an algorithm just like FP+ was.



CWTC said:


> The issue though is false equivalency between G+ and express pass. They are nowhere near the same products.



I don't think anyone has said they are the same.  But I don't think it is false to compare them.

They both offer you a Fast/Express lane option for one time per ride per day max ....

For $70-80+ per day you get all the rides ONCE without reserving at Universal.

For $15 per day you get reservations ONCE for most the rides (if available).

Yes Universal provides a superior product but it's also at least 5x more expensive.

I've never bought Express at Universal ~ I'll risk the $15 at Disney most days.



ShayBells said:


> I doubt there will be a cap. FP+ was open to everyone (and not everyone used it. Same thing will happen with genie+) I do think this is the reason for one ride only. Keeps availability open for more people to buy into genie+.



But there was "a cap" with FP+. The system would stop giving them out. But since you didn't pay for it you really couldn't complain if you didn't get one.

Now that you are paying for it, they will have to make sure folks are not being edged out after half a day.  There will have to be some kind of algorithm to determine when to stop selling them so they don't risk long lines at GR.

That said I think it will be high. Without 3 per person being pulled from inventory in advance and all those people who used FP+ but won't pay for it. I think the inventory available to roll all day should be there. I'm going in first week of November and expecting it to be "not fun" but excited to go back in January to compare if it is improved.


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## WebmasterKathy

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## ShayBells

I doubt there will be a cap. FP+ was open to everyone (and not everyone used it. Same thing will happen with genie+) I do think this is the reason for one ride only. Keeps availability open for more people to buy into genie+. My main reason for considering purchasing beforehand is to just have it done and over with. It’s one less thing to buy every day or even a few days each morning. And will be easier to swallow. Kinda like DDP that money was already spent. Almost like it was free when I went to eat.  But I still think this works better with park hopping (as long as availability stays open) The value is more rides with more parks.


----------



## Tom_E_D

Dreams&wishes said:


> I find incredible that the communication from disney has been so poor about this. So many unanswered questions and uncertain points. I can't believe anyone booking any other holiday with so many unknown points, especially considering that time spent in a line could make or break a vacation.


Disney has never been good at communicating all the ins and outs of its convoluted rules, and I think that's intentional. Back in the Fastpass+ days, there were certain combinations of fastpasses that could not be booked together as your first three fastpasses booked at Epcot, Animal Kingdom and Hollywood Studios. Many Disney blogs knew what they were and wrote articles describing which attractions were in Tier 1, which in Tier 2, and what the rules were about using them. Disney itself never, to the best of my knowledge (and I am at least somewhat knowledgeable on the subject), said what attractions were in what tier, or what the rules were about how many attractions you could book from a given tier. We have to credit the bloggers for figuring it out and letting the rest of us know. Genie+ is at least partially the successor to Fastpass+. The fact that Disney's announcements have been vague should not be surprising. Not communicating "the rules" gives Disney the flexibility to make changes without violating its own rules.


----------



## dawnball

katyringo said:


> I know this is very new for WDW but the more info comes out about the more it is incredibly similar to maxpass just with those additions lightening lanes uncharged.


I've used maxpass. I liked maxpass, and it was pleasantly easy to avoid most of the lines on maxpass attractions. I found it was worth the price over paper fastpass. 

However, if we're limited to one genie+ pass per attraction - that's a significant change to the value proposition. I'm waiting to see how it comes out, but I'm dubious of the utility for my particular traveling party.


----------



## katyringo

dawnball said:


> I've used maxpass. I liked maxpass, and it was pleasantly easy to avoid most of the lines on maxpass attractions. I found it was worth the price over paper fastpass.
> 
> However, if we're limited to one genie+ pass per attraction - that's a significant change to the value proposition. I'm waiting to see how it comes out, but I'm dubious of the utility for my particular traveling party.



I agree with you. If you are someone who likes to re-ride in the same day then this won't work well for that. I think that works at Disneyland because when go there and have a 4-5 day tickets you will be in the same parks for those days...


----------



## katyringo

Tom_E_D said:


> Disney has never been good at communicating all the ins and outs of its convoluted rules, and I think that's intentional. Back in the Fastpass+ days, there were certain combinations of fastpasses that could not be booked together as your first three fastpasses booked at Epcot, Animal Kingdom and Hollywood Studios. Many Disney blogs knew what they were and wrote articles describing which attractions were in Tier 1, which in Tier 2, and what the rules were about using them. Disney itself never, to the best of my knowledge (and I am at least somewhat knowledgeable on the subject), said what attractions were in what tier, or what the rules were about how many attractions you could book from a given tier. We have to credit the bloggers for figuring it out and letting the rest of us know. Genie+ is at least partially the successor to Fastpass+. The fact that Disney's announcements have been vague should not be surprising. Not communicating "the rules" gives Disney the flexibility to make changes without violating its own rules.



Disney know it's has bloggers.. that they don't have to pay... to share the information for them.


----------



## Tonyz

Thumper99 said:


> Maybe you can make it exactly clearer what you are saying because you just bolded their post and told them they were wrong. If your intention was that you loved the ride and wanted to ride it over and over it appears you would be willing to do that again in the standby line or be willing to pay once to do it with the new system. What cryptic message were you trying to state by bolding part of their post and then Laughing at them that they don’t understand what you meant. I think the poster totally understood that you were saying his impression of “underwhelmed” was just wrong.
> 
> Personally I rode the ride. It was neat. Everyone should experience it at least once if they like Star Wars. But in my opinion and many others it’s not necessarily the best ride in the world. If you aren’t a Star Wars fanatic and thrilled with seeing all the nuances of the characters you love (or hate) it’s just a fun ride. I will say it is a longer ride so if you do wait in standby at least you get a longer ride at the end.



Technically, I believe it's the best ride ever created. It's utter brilliance. 

But for me, personally... there's probably 10 or so rides that I prefer over it.


----------



## dawnball

katyringo said:


> I agree with you. If you are someone who likes to re-ride in the same day then this won't work well for that. I think that works at Disneyland because when go there and have a 4-5 day tickets you will be in the same parks for those days...


Yup. And the two parks are close enough that you can pop between them fairly easily.  It's a lot slower to change parks at Disney World (although DHS/Epcot could make a nice G+ pairing)

We have a trip at the end of October, but have just decided that we'll have a nice time regardless of what lines end up looking like.


----------



## DSLRuser

champagne&disney said:


> I look forward to this release and can’t wait to have faster lines again. Disney is finally catching up to every other amusement/theme park by charging for access to express lines.



I agree Disney is just playing catch up.

I would rather the raise the price of a ticket $30 a day if they need the cash.  For me, the guest experience has been awesome when everyone has to wait stand by.

I had no problem waiting 60 mins for 7 dwarfs if we needed to ride it.  vs not getting a fast pass and having to wait 120 minutes.

Reminds me of the early 90's before fast pass.  so much better guest experience over all.


----------



## mom2rtk

HopperFan said:


> No I did agree with you that they said that.
> 
> They also say purchasing the Genie+ ""... lets you select arrival windows ..." for the Lightning Lanes.  Inconsistent information, makes me feel like they are so busy talking it up they aren't reading what they are saying.  They are telling you how to buy this right down to the details .... but not very clear on how it will actually work.


I'm betting you have to take the next available time. Otherwise slots early in the day could go unused, and later in the day could become "booked". And having later in the day booked makes it harder to keep selling Genie+. People really aren't going to buy it all day long, but they'll stop much earlier in the day if things are booked up in advance for what remains of their day.


----------



## katyringo

mom2rtk said:


> I'm betting you have to take the next available time. Otherwise slots early in the day could go unused, and later in the day could become "booked". And having later in the day booked makes it harder to keep selling Genie+. People really aren't going to buy it all day long, but they'll stop much earlier in the day if things are booked up in advance for what remains of their day.



what I understand is you can choose your time for the upcharge lightening lane rides- the two per day you can use to pay to pass the line.

for just genie plus you choose the next available time.


----------



## mom2rtk

0FF TO NEVERLAND said:


> Oh dining reservations are going to be a nightmare with this crap. You are basically given a time to come back to ride that you can't modify. So if it ends up on your dining reservation, tough luck. Fast pass was free so I could deal with that problem ( I also had much advance notice to make fast pass time selections )
> 
> At least with fast pass I can religiously look at my phone to get what I want sooner or later


If it's anything like legacy FP, you could just hold off booking until times advance to a window that doesn't conflict with your ADR. Many times I watched the return times advance to get a time that worked for us.


----------



## mom2rtk

katyringo said:


> what I understand is you can choose your time for the upcharge lightening lane rides- the two per day you can use to pay to pass the line.
> 
> for just genie plus you choose the next available time.


Yes, sorry, I was talking about Genie+.


----------



## mom2rtk

HopperFan said:


> Yes Universal provides a superior product but it's also at least 5x more expensive.


But you can get the unlimited plan free for the length of your stay at their hotel that's comparable in price to a Disney moderate these days.


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## mom2rtk

dawnball said:


> I've used maxpass. I liked maxpass, and it was pleasantly easy to avoid most of the lines on maxpass attractions. I found it was worth the price over paper fastpass.
> 
> However, if we're limited to one genie+ pass per attraction - that's a significant change to the value proposition. I'm waiting to see how it comes out, but I'm dubious of the utility for my particular traveling party.


The "once per attraction" thing is a significant downgrade. But the fact that headliners aren't included is another. You used to be able to get RSR with MaxPass without paying extra. And those parks are side by side, so almost like one big park. So easy to access to every single ride every single day you had a park hopper.


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## Jennasis

Can you park hop with Genie+?  If I buy it at 7am and start my day at MK and hop to Epcot later, can I continue making G+ selections at Epcot?


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## RedmonFamily

Jennasis said:


> Can you park hop with Genie+?  If I buy it at 7am and start my day at MK and hop to Epcot later, can I continue making G+ selections at Epcot?


It sounds like yes


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## Jimmy Mouse

I just returned today, been at WDW since Sunday (6 days) and It was crowded. We were at UO before we arrived at WDW and it was just as crowded in the evenings. Thank God for Express pass! We were able to ride everything and we stayed in the parks all day because we were having a lot of fun! Things were a lot different at WDW. We were able to do the rides we wanted with no problem but we only did half park days. Each day we each picked a ride, just 4 of us. We did those and left. Disney did not get our money in the shops, at the snack carts or restaurants. We ate a lot of meals in our room. Insta cart is wonderful! Once Genie launches, If you decide to pay for the + part you will not be able to repeat a LL for a ride and that just sucks. When FP+ was free you could. I still have another trip booked in 80 or so days but that may change. We had a ton of issues this last trip that may be the tipping point for us. That's for another post. 

Edit:  I was reminded by my wife how much we really did eat in the parks and that we only had 2 meals in the room but a lot of snacks.  Seems my memory is foggy. I had to look at all the food pics before I believed her lol.  This will only get better as I get older!  I can't wait


----------



## kappyfamily

dawnball said:


> I've used maxpass. I liked maxpass, and it was pleasantly easy to avoid most of the lines on maxpass attractions. I found it was worth the price over paper fastpass.
> 
> However, if we're limited to one genie+ pass per attraction - that's a significant change to the value proposition. I'm waiting to see how it comes out, but I'm dubious of the utility for my particular traveling party.


this! We used and abused MaxPass, loved it! BUT, we could ride the same ride multiple times if we wanted to. In a full day we would get 10-14 rides on maxpass reservations per day depending how busy the park was. We had it pretty much figured out. Even when they raised the daily price we still felt it was worth it. Not sure about the only ride 1x though..... hmm will have to think about this one. Maybe use it on the 1 or 2 busiest days we will be there during the week.


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## PepperjackDragon

what really boggles me is the emphasis on a la cart. 1: it makes it more confusing. 2: it will obviously make less money. 3: single per ride sux but is probably so they can make sure they can sell them to everybody and still have slots available.

On point 2: Consider prix fixe meals is obviously way more profitable than me skipping entrees and splitting deserts. Clearly WDW recognizes this. I mean, if they had a set price for my whole trip-presumably with a slight discount after x number of days- I would definitely get it for fear of needing it. I am positive that if I had to accept $150 for 10 days-even $300-i would convince myself it’s not THAT bad. As is no way I get it for AK or Epcot. Moreover, once I had them for everyday I would HAVE to get park hoppers to maximize my AK and Epcot passes.

this is like getting rid of prefixe at cinderellas table, and letting people split a desert and enjoy meet and greets. All of this to say, forget about fast passes, in the next 12-18 months these are going to be the good days, even though when they finally do force us to buy them as a package we will probably be happier for it.


----------



## fabfemmeboy

CBMom01 said:


> We need threads where the DL max pass experts give lessons



Wouldn't do any good because max pass only had 1 tier and didn't care if you pulled times for the same attraction repeatedly.  Plus we had to pull them for things like Fantasmic/WOC viewing which isn't the case at WDW.


----------



## Spike101

I'm visiting Florida for 2 weeks at the end of Jan from the U.K, I'm a Universal fan, however this year I'm taking a day out to visit DHS,mostly for Galaxys Edge it has to be said, my ticket and reservation are all sorted, yay!

As far as ROTR is concerned, as its only $15 a pop, I'm going to indulge the cost and invest in a Lightning Lane reservation, I'll be rope dropping anyway so having ROTR booked will let me enjoy the rest of the park at my leisure.

Having said all that, I'm going at the beginning of Feb, in theory its a crowd light time, so could end up just doing ROTR via standby, I'll play it by ear when I get there.

I'm not going to pay for Genie+ but as a solo traveller, and knowing this will (probably) be my only ever visit to DHS, the Lightning Lane paid option is good for me for that particular ride.


----------



## shawthorne44

The only once per ride significantly changes my G+ strategy.  If you will probably want to re-ride, you would want to delay using the G+ on a ride that gets longer lines later in the day.    If it starts high at park open and then stays steady, then it wouldn't matter.   But, if it climbs, it might be better to go standby first.


----------



## tony67

Jimmy Mouse said:


> If you decide to pay for the + part you will not be able to repeat a LL for a ride and that just sucks. When FP+ was free you could


In theory yes - but the FP had to be available but I do agree that if it is available - even if they enforced some time between the rides like 2 hours between repeats - Id much prefer that



HopperFan said:


> You are right, no way I'd book an international trip or a cruise or any trip that cost me thousands of dollars without doing my homework but they sure do for Disney. They don't do their homework when Disney puts it all out there over and over again - so they won't care if they know nothing now. In the end they'll have the same trip.


Honestly part of the problem here is bad travel agents.  I dont know why people even use them  - anymore if they are not going to give you the info they need - they are still used a lot from UK/Ireland.   I had a really good travel agent back in the late 90s early 2000s - but then Disney and Amex cut them out.
Anyway - Ive talked to far too many folks from the Uk and Ireland that used travel agents and got completely ripped off and had no plan - including family members who I specifically told to let me assist them - but they knew better.

One of the worst was a guy I met who was dying and did a big family trip - booked everything including the top level dinning plan and showed up during free dinning with no reservations.  The amount he payed to stay in the wings at the contemporary was far more than I was paying at club level.  I did help him a bit with a few reservations - but only so much I could do.  Hopefully this travel agent was dealt with when he got home, but since it was Dublin and not a small town they can get away with it.



Spike101 said:


> I'm not going to pay for Genie+ but as a solo traveller, and knowing this will (probably) be my only ever visit to DHS, the Lightning Lane paid option is good for me for that particular ride.


For me as a solo traveler -it's much more tempting since its only $15 not $15 x 4 people


----------



## mousestruck

Does anyone know if you will be able to pre-purchase Genie+ with an annual pass, as they’ve indicated you can do with other tickets and packages? I wonder if AP holders will have to purchase “day of,” or if Disney will offer any discounts. I doubt it, but would be nice!

Clearly there are still unanswered questions, but we all have an advantage. We’re the people who read the Disney chat boards, follow the bloggers and stay on top of all the breaking Disney news. I have no doubt that within a few weeks of launch, people will have figured out how to optimize Genie+… and we’ll benefit from that knowledge. I’m counting on that for our January trip!


----------



## CWTC

mousestruck said:


> Does anyone know if you will be able to pre-purchase Genie+ with an annual pass, as they’ve indicated you can do with other tickets and packages? I wonder if AP holders will have to purchase “day of,” or if Disney will offer any discounts. I doubt it, but would be nice!


Older information suggested AP holders would need to buy day of and after midnight.  I have not seen anything more current.


----------



## Marionnette

mousestruck said:


> Does anyone know if you will be able to pre-purchase Genie+ with an annual pass, as they’ve indicated you can do with other tickets and packages? I wonder if AP holders will have to purchase “day of,” or if Disney will offer any discounts. I doubt it, but would be nice!
> 
> Clearly there are still unanswered questions, but we all have an advantage. We’re the people who read the Disney chat boards, follow the bloggers and stay on top of all the breaking Disney news. I have no doubt that within a few weeks of launch, people will have figured out how to optimize Genie+… and we’ll benefit from that knowledge. I’m counting on that for our January trip!


The only answer about APs that I could find on an official Disney website was thru PlanDisney (formerly the Mom's Panel) and we know how accurate their info can be at times. Anyway, in response to a question about adding Genie+ to an AP, this was the response:

_Crystal, as Genie+ launches, Walt Disney World Annual Passholders will not be able to purchase in advance. The purchase in advance option is currently available only for theme park tickets. But Hakuna Matata, Crystal! No Worries! You won’t be at any disadvantage when you purchase day-of through the My Disney Experience Mobile App. The pricing is the same, as is the availability to choose your Lightning Lane Attractions. As a Disney Vacation Club Member and Walt Disney World Annual Passholder, I’ll be doing the same thing for our visit!_​​https://plandisney.disney.go.com/qu...-dvc-reservation-november-passholders-468759/


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## Delilah1310

Why would Disney care if we wanted to ride the same ride over and over? Do they think limiting the re-rides will disperse crowds better? Just trying to understand their logic.


----------



## MainMom

katyringo said:


> what I understand is you can choose your time for the upcharge lightening lane rides- the two per day you can use to pay to pass the line.
> 
> for just genie plus you choose the next available time.


This is what I don’t like about Genie+. I never booked my first FP before 10am because we are RDers with a good strategy. If I get on at 7am and want to book Splash at 10, but the first available is 9 I have to wait around & refresh until 10 shows up? If this is the case I’m going to have to rethink everything about my park days. If it was free I wouldn’t care, but having to pay for it I’m not going to be happy if I book a 9am ride that’s still a 15 minute wait. Seems like a waste to me.


----------



## shawthorne44

Delilah1310 said:


> Why would Disney care if we wanted to ride the same ride over and over? Do they think limiting the re-rides will disperse crowds better? Just trying to understand their logic.



It should keep the standby line reasonable. Otherwise imagine the most popular G+ ride. People would get back-to-back reservations on it and choke the standby line.


----------



## Marionnette

Delilah1310 said:


> Why would Disney care if we wanted to ride the same ride over and over? Do they think limiting the re-rides will disperse crowds better? Just trying to understand their logic.


Part of it is about spreading out crowds but I think it's mostly about limiting access so that they can sell more Genie+ add-ons. For instance, AK has only 8 Genie+ LL attractions, 3 of which are shows. Epcot has 9. If a family visiting AK was able to do multiple re-rides of KS, Na'vi or Kali imagine what that would leave for other Genie+ guests to choose from.


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## dawnball

I understand why they're limiting it to once per ride. There just aren't that many attractions at WDW that need a fastpass.


Delilah1310 said:


> Why would Disney care if we wanted to ride the same ride over and over? Do they think limiting the re-rides will disperse crowds better? Just trying to understand their logic.


Because they're trying to ensure that as many people as possible purchase G+. 

Guests visit attractions in the morning when lines are short and Genie directs you around. They have lunch, and the lines start getting longer just as the day is getting hotter and the Genie starts saying "120 minute wait for Jungle Cruise, or  you can purchase G+ and ride in 20 minutes? It sounds like a much better deal than if Jungle Cruise return times are 2+ hours out.


----------



## dawnball

MainMom said:


> This is what I don’t like about Genie+. I never booked my first FP before 10am because we are RDers with a good strategy. If I get on at 7am and want to book Splash at 10, but the first available is 9 I have to wait around & refresh until 10 shows up? If this is the case I’m going to have to rethink everything about my park days. If it was free I wouldn’t care, but having to pay for it I’m not going to be happy if I book a 9am ride that’s still a 15 minute wait. Seems like a waste to me.


I think the goal is to have return times be very short - like "book it now, stroll across the park and it's time to ride" levels of short. My prediction is that will work in the short term, but may quickly turn into the RSR issue "I want to ride this in the dark, so I have to keep checking to see when the mid-afternoon times suddenly become nighttime and then disapppear in a flash"


----------



## scrappinginontario

shawthorne44 said:


> It should keep the standby line reasonable. Otherwise imagine the most popular G+ ride. People would get back-to-back reservations on it and choke the standby line.


 While this could happen I see that particular scenario working in Disney’s favour as it would encourage more to purchase G+.


----------



## CWTC

So I know there has been a lot of back and forth on stacking like Maxpass if the return window is multiple hours out.  I just took the time to read the info in my MDE app:

“Once you’ve redeemed your initial selection (or the arrival window has passed), you can make another selection using the app, up to park closing.”

That seems to imply no stacking.  How cruddy would it be at 7am to get a return time for 6pm and that is the only LL you get for the day?


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## Jessica Geisler

I’ve screenshot this to follow and attempt as a genie-pig when we are in MK on the 24. I can’t determine if we would buy it for Epcot, but definitely won’t for AK. Universal the first half of the week requires a lot less thought and planning & now I have to spend my time seeing how it works for 3 days prior to us arriving. 



katyringo said:


> If they run the tickets like maxpass you will be able to buy tickets with genie plus included and tickets without it.
> My guess is if you currently have tickets from an outside vendor not as part of a vacation package then you will want to buy genie plus daily while you are there. This is how maxpass worked. You just purchased it in the app and then you could start using it once scanned in the park.
> 
> so if you have tickets where it's not included And you can start selections at 7am- Disney has said genie plus purchase for the day will start at midnight for that day.... this doesn't mean it sells out and you need to be on at midnight- it just means that when buying it opens.
> 
> so if you are planning to buy it day of- and want to make a selection at 7am- I would make sure you have it purchased by 7am.
> 
> I know this is very new for WDW but the more info comes out about the more it is incredibly similar to maxpass just with those additions lightening lanes uncharged.
> 
> Because DisneyWorld will have early entry too for resorts guests let me tell you how maxpass worked for us on a Disneyland day during Christmas break crowds. The difference here is that at Disneyland you had to be scanned into the park to start using it while at WDW it will open at 7am. You all- THiS IS IMPORTANT- because if the info about 120 minutes before booking next one is true- then that means if you book one at 7- your next one is at 9. You will have entered MK at 830 for early entry. You could have rode 2-3 rides early entry, and have two lightening lanes booked by the time the park official opens. If those have fairly quick return times you could be booking your third lightening lane pass by 10-11am.  And for those who want to purchase the lightening lanes- book those for the afternoon when crowds pick up.
> 
> we used maxpass at Disneyland during capacity Christmas crowds. We had what was known there at magic morning. We were in the park half hour early and booked our first fastpasses for offical Opening at 830. We could then make a selection 90 minutes later. By using magic morning to hit space mountain, fantasy land, and buzz light year and by 9am we were booking our second fastpass abs about to ride with our first.
> 
> I know this is a big change but it really does work well. And it's flexible. And we could stack a couple by watching them while on a hotel break for the evening.
> 
> And for those who don't want to wake up early it works good too! Once you wake up you can get on and start booking. Remember everyone else is still having to wait 120 minutes between booking or using what they have.
> 
> we will start figuring out which rides run out of lightening lane passes each day abs then those become the ones you wanna book first in your day.  Example was at California adventure radiator racers would usually run out by early afternoon.


----------



## Frozen2014

kappyfamily said:


> this! We used and abused MaxPass, loved it! BUT, we could ride the same ride multiple times if we wanted to. In a full day we would get 10-14 rides on maxpass reservations per day depending how busy the park was. We had it pretty much figured out. Even when they raised the daily price we still felt it was worth it. Not sure about the only ride 1x though..... hmm will have to think about this one. Maybe use it on the 1 or 2 busiest days we will be there during the week.


Exactly this!  That's the big difference. With MaxPass you could ride the same ride multiple times but with Genie+ you can't....which takes away the value.


----------



## DisneyGuy

This has probably been addressed but maybe I haven't seen it but one of my concerns is timing.  It's one thing to be up at 7:00am to book your first Genie + time, but it's another to be up and ready to walk out the door to make sure you get the park on time.  If the first time slot doesn't provide enough time to get from the resort to the park - I'm thinking if i'm at an Epcot resort, going to Magic Kingdom, i'm going to have to wait for a bus - this can take a lot of time.  I'm hoping there's an hour window like with fastpass.  It seems i'll have more of a choice of time with the separate lightning lane selections.


----------



## MainMom

Do you think Genie+ will automatically show you availability for the number of people in your party? We will have 7 next trip which might make things more complicated.


----------



## Tom_E_D

DisneyGuy said:


> This has probably been addressed but maybe I haven't seen it but one of my concerns is timing.  It's one thing to be up at 7:00am to book your first Genie + time, but it's another to be up and ready to walk out the door to make sure you get the park on time.  If the first time slot doesn't provide enough time to get from the resort to the park - I'm thinking if i'm at an Epcot resort, going to Magic Kingdom, i'm going to have to wait for a bus - this can take a lot of time.  I'm hoping there's an hour window like with fastpass.  It seems i'll have more of a choice of time with the separate lightning lane selections.


Yes, there is reportedly an hour-long window in which to use your fastpass. I wouldn't be surprised if they let you use it five minutes before that hour begins until fifteen minutes after, as they did with Fastpass+. As it is, none of the parks have been opening before 8:00 lately, so you should have until at least 9:00 or 9:15 to use that first fastpass that you got at 7:00. (I'm disregarding early entry. I doubt they'd give you a fastpass return time that starts before official opening time.)


----------



## charmed59

I think the no re-ride rule makes Genie+ more attractive to 1st time and occasional visitors.  Re-rides aren’t as important to them as getting an opportunity to go on most the famous rides at least once.

For a very simplified example, if they sell 10K G+ in MK a day, and HM can handle 10K in the LL without hurting the flow of the standby lines, then everybody who purchased G+ could get a pass to HM sometime that day.  People who payed for G+ to specifically ride that ride won’t be disappointed.  If 20% of the folks were getting HM a second time then 20% of G+ users won’t have a chance to ride it once.  Obviously park hopping makes the math much more complicated.

As I mentioned in another thread, I was surprised re-riding is popular enough to mess up availability for some rides, but Disney seems to think it is.


----------



## CJLove79

Has anybody found out if you can use a Disney gift card to pay for Lightning Lanes and Genie plus?


----------



## shawthorne44

I wonder if there will be a G++ released in a year-or-so.    That allows re-rises and costs maybe $60.   

As I think about it more, I'm not worried about the $15. We'll be paying $20 for Haunted House Front-Of-The-Line passes at Six Flags. Of course we paid $50 for a season pass.


----------



## Grumpy by Birth

Grumpy by Birth said:


> Just popping in to say how great it is that IA$ is gaining traction as the official DIS acronym for Individual Attraction Selection.
> 
> Seriously, did no one on that committee think to themselves "maybe we shouldn't use a word that starts with 'S' when we name this thing." ????


I saw yesterday where they have changed the name of IA$ (they must have seen all of the ridicule on this thread about the resulting acronym and use of a dollar sign in it).  So they've changed the name to Individual Lightning Lane... when you see the price it will make you _*ILL *_!

You can't make this stuff up.


----------



## dawnball

charmed59 said:


> As I mentioned in another thread, I was surprised re-riding is popular enough to mess up availability for some rides, but Disney seems to think it is.


I think some people are just re-riders, and can disproportionally stress rides. My family is full of re-riders, but there's usually only one or two rides that they want fastpasses for. For example, my parents will ride Star Tours 6+ times a day, but all they ride at DHS is Star Tours and TSMM. They'd ride TSMM 6+ times a day if they could get that many FP.


----------



## Grasshopper2016

shawthorne44 said:


> The only once per ride significantly changes my G+ strategy. If you will probably want to re-ride, you would want to delay using the G+ on a ride that gets longer lines later in the day. If it starts high at park open and then stays steady, then it wouldn't matter. But, if it climbs, it might be better to go standby first.


But what if you delay Genie+, and then you find out that, by the time you want to use it on the popular ride, there are no more LL slots available?  Or the return time is in the late evening, so choosing it will lock you out of LL for all of the other rides in the afternoon?   That’s what I’m afraid of.


----------



## White_Rabbit18

To join ....) 

Hopefully, this is the right board for this topic but I was thinking that with this new project, Disney obviously wants it to be a success because it is already getting a lot of bad reactions.

I think one way to encourage people to sign up for Genie + is to “randomly“ give people pixie dust through the app. Magically you get a message in the app that you just won a free Mickey bar, an additional repeat ride, or 15% off your next souvenir. People would go crazy over getting notifications and it wouldn’t cost Disney that much money to throw little things here and there to keep their guests happy. Plus, since they already know how much you are spending thanks to your magic band then they can give more out to their big spenders.

What do you guys think? Would you sign up knowing that you would receive free discounts/additional rides?


----------



## mom2rtk

I’m guessing there will be a few extra “surprise and delight” fast passes early on for this very reason.


----------



## DisneyGuy

Tom_E_D said:


> Yes, there is reportedly an hour-long window in which to use your fastpass. I wouldn't be surprised if they let you use it five minutes before that hour begins until fifteen minutes after, as they did with Fastpass+. As it is, none of the parks have been opening before 8:00 lately, so you should have until at least 9:00 or 9:15 to use that first fastpass that you got at 7:00. (I'm disregarding early entry. I doubt they'd give you a fastpass return time that starts before official opening time.)


Thanks!


----------



## nurseberta

shawthorne44 said:


> It should keep the standby line reasonable. Otherwise imagine the most popular G+ ride. People would get back-to-back reservations on it and choke the standby line.



this is what happens at universal. When my son was 4 we went on Men In Black 3 times in a row because he loved it. He wanted more but I couldn’t walk by the poor people in the standby line one more time!! 
we went back later and did another 3x


----------



## vadersprincess12

I'm going to rely on the experts here ~ I have not read through this entire thread it's just too long.

Do I understand correctly that, if you choose to, you have to pay the $15 a day fee for Genie+ simply for the pleasure of paying an additional fee per attraction to ride two attractions per day through Lightening Lane?


----------



## Marionnette

vadersprincess12 said:


> I'm going to rely on the experts here ~ I have not read through this entire thread it's just too long.
> 
> Do I understand correctly that, if you choose to, you have to pay the $15 a day fee for Genie+ simply for the pleasure of paying an additional fee per attraction to ride two attractions per day through Lightening Lane?


No. Genie+ ($15 per day) and the ILL$ (Individual Lightning Lane Selection) are two separate things. You don't need to purchase one in order to buy the other.


----------



## Turksmom

Purchase of Genie+ is not required to purchase ILL$. Answered in FAQs
https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/genie/


----------



## vadersprincess12

Thanks Turksmom ~ it makes sense now ~~ still not thrilled with having to pay for things like this and having to start at 7:00 a.m. but I guess that's just where things are right now at Disney.


----------



## nurseberta

Has anyone considered if you purchase an ILL$ for Remy, could you still request a BG??


----------



## persnickity2020

charmed59 said:


> As I mentioned in another thread, I was surprised re-riding is popular enough to mess up availability for some rides, but Disney seems to think it is.



I think Slinky being a G+ attraction is almost entirely to blame for the "no re-rides" rule.  I suspect those slots are going to go pretty quickly even without extra rides on the table.


----------



## luv2cheer92

nurseberta said:


> Has anyone considered if you purchase an ILL$ for Remy, could you still request a BG??


You can't do both.


----------



## nurseberta

luv2cheer92 said:


> You can't do both.


Not sure I would do it but  If I purchased a LL$ for any other attraction I could still chose to wait in line and ride if I chose.


----------



## Sunelis

luv2cheer92 said:


> You can't do both.


According to the video released today by Molly from Allears you actually can. But I guess we'll know for real when someone actually tries it.


----------



## elgerber

Sunelis said:


> According to the video released today by Molly from Allears you actually can. But I guess we'll know for real when someone actually tries it.


That would ask a lot of Disney IT to cross reference the two systems.


----------



## Orsino

While limiting LL to once per day per attraction is a step back overall, I can't help but think that this is the way FP should have been all along. Once per day would have kept FP supplies more plentiful later into the day. If they had implemented this restriction from the start, I think most would accept it as 'reasonable,' since those who wanted to ride multiple times a day were already used to queuing up in standby multiple times.

I've also realized that I've been thinking about MaxPass and Genie+ all wrong. While Genie+ might *operate* the same way (or very similar) as MaxPass did, the value proposition is quite different. For MaxPass we were buying access to electronic FP. In other words, we already had access to paper fastpass; MaxPass was simply to allow access to FP on the phone. Even then I found the 15 dollars per day to be well worth it (in attraction rich Disneyland and nearby C. Adventure).

So now with Genie+ the price is still 15 dollars per day, but I'm not merely upgrading to electronic access, Genie+ is buying access too. Without MaxPass, guests could still access paper fastpass. Without Genie+, guests can't. I keep missing this difference.


----------



## Cabius

Year of a Million Dreams*

* not included with theme park admission


----------



## Grasshopper2016

According to Molly At All Ears’s video, “stacking” will work differently than it did with Maxpass (as I understand it; never been to DLR). She says that, if you book a ride, and the return time that they give you is more than two hours away, you can turn around and book another LL for a different ride right away.  As I understand it, with Maxpass, you had to wait until the expiration of the “cooling off” period—120 minutes here, though I think it was 90 minutes for Maxpass—before you could book another LL (formerly FP+).  Any confirmation of that?  Is it possible that Mollly is confused or misinformed?  And if she’s right, how does that change optimal strategy?


----------



## Marionnette

White_Rabbit18 said:


> To join ....)
> 
> Hopefully, this is the right board for this topic but I was thinking that with this new project, Disney obviously wants it to be a success because it is already getting a lot of bad reactions.
> 
> I think one way to encourage people to sign up for Genie + is to “randomly“ give people pixie dust through the app. Magically you get a message in the app that you just won a free Mickey bar, an additional repeat ride, or 15% off your next souvenir. People would go crazy over getting notifications and it wouldn’t cost Disney that much money to throw little things here and there to keep their guests happy. Plus, since they already know how much you are spending thanks to your magic band then they can give more out to their big spenders.
> 
> What do you guys think? Would you sign up knowing that you would receive free discounts/additional rides?


No. But then, I don't play the lottery, either.


----------



## francie57

scrappinginontario said:


> It has not been announced that I have seen but I would say, Yes, you will be able to choose part/all of your party at once.  This is how everything else works so I don’t see this being any different.


Thanks. Will be interesting to here reports when it starts


----------



## Marionnette

Orsino said:


> While limiting LL to once per day per attraction is a step back overall, I can't help but think that this is the way FP should have been all along. Once per day would have kept FP supplies more plentiful later into the day. If they had implemented this restriction from the start, I think most would accept it as 'reasonable,' since those who wanted to ride multiple times a day were already used to queuing up in standby multiple times.
> 
> I've also realized that I've been thinking about MaxPass and Genie+ all wrong. While Genie+ might *operate* the same way (or very similar) as MaxPass did, the value proposition is quite different. For MaxPass we were buying access to electronic FP. In other words, we already had access to paper fastpass; MaxPass was simply to allow access to FP on the phone. Even then I found the 15 dollars per day to be well worth it (in attraction rich Disneyland and nearby C. Adventure).
> 
> So now with Genie+ the price is still 15 dollars per day, but I'm not merely upgrading to electronic access, Genie+ is buying access too. Without MaxPass, guests could still access paper fastpass. Without Genie+, guests can't. I keep missing this difference.


Psst...Genie+ is $15/day at WDW. It will be $20/day at DLR.


----------



## Tom_E_D

Grasshopper2016 said:


> According to Molly At All Ears’s video, “stacking” will work differently than it did with Maxpass (as I understand it; never been to DLR). She says that, if you book a ride, and the return time that they give you is more than two hours away, you can turn around and book another LL for a different ride right away.  As I understand it, with Maxpass, you had to wait until the expiration of the “cooling off” period—120 minutes here, though I think it was 90 minutes for Maxpass—before you could book another LL (formerly FP+).  Any confirmation of that?  Is it possible that Mollly is confused or misinformed?  And if she’s right, how does that change optimal strategy?


Even before seeing you quote Molly, I had seen contradictory reports of how the 120-minute rule will work. I believe one of the problems is that Disney has not put "the rules" of how it will all work in writing anywhere official.


----------



## nurseberta

Grasshopper2016 said:


> According to Molly At All Ears’s video, “stacking” will work differently than it did with Maxpass (as I understand it; never been to DLR). She says that, if you book a ride, and the return time that they give you is more than two hours away, you can turn around and book another LL for a different ride right away.  As I understand it, with Maxpass, you had to wait until the expiration of the “cooling off” period—120 minutes here, though I think it was 90 minutes for Maxpass—before you could book another LL (formerly FP+).  Any confirmation of that?  Is it possible that Mollly is confused or misinformed?  And if she’s right, how does that change optimal strategy?


Strategically I would attempt to make 1st LL for at minimum 2 hours going forward so that you can book a second attraction prior to that. My guess is what will happen is that people will want to book high interest rides and then as people arrive and attempt to book SDD for example will keep pushing back to later on the day. If you get one for 3pm then at least you have one, then you have time to work the rest of the not as popular rides before that.

what I worry about is if I pay for Genie + and then it ends up being a race to grab a time and end op not having any availability to ride something like SDD then that would really stink. Is this new G+ going to be like getting a BG all day long? Hopefully not as that will make most people stressed and therefore makes the system not what it is intended to be, something to manage crowds and wait times.


----------



## shawthorne44

Grumpy by Birth said:


> I saw yesterday where they have changed the name of IA$ (they must have seen all of the ridicule on this thread about the resulting acronym and use of a dollar sign in it).  So they've changed the name to Individual Lightning Lane... when you see the price it will make you _*ILL *_!
> 
> You can't make this stuff up.



That is why I've switched to ILL, but adding ILL$$$.


----------



## mom2rtk

And 


Marionnette said:


> Psst...Genie+ is $15/day at WDW. It will be $20/day at DLR.


And it will be a much better value in DLR given how many attractions there are in the side by side parks.


----------



## DLgal

Tom_E_D said:


> Even before seeing you quote Molly, I had seen contradictory reports of how the 120-minute rule will work. I believe one of the problems is that Disney has not put "the rules" of how it will all work in writing anywhere official.



They never really published official rules for Maxpass either. People just had to figure out the nuances of the system through trial and error.


----------



## Tom_E_D

nurseberta said:


> Strategically I would attempt to make 1st LL for at minimum 2 hours going forward so that you can book a second attraction prior to that. My guess is what will happen is that people will want to book high interest rides and then as people arrive and attempt to book SDD for example will keep pushing back to later on the day. If you get one for 3pm then at least you have one, then you have time to work the rest of the not as popular rides before that.
> 
> what I worry about is if I pay for Genie + and then it ends up being a race to grab a time and end op not having any availability to ride something like SDD then that would really stink. Is this new G+ going to be like getting a BG all day long? Hopefully not as that will make most people stressed and therefore makes the system not what it is intended to be, something to manage crowds and wait times.


If the rule is simply that you can book another Genie+ pass as long as your next one is more than 120 minutes away, you could theoretically book one for each hour of the day (if they allow only one per hour; MaxPass had no such rule, although Fastpass+ did) before 7:30 in the morning. MaxPass let you stack more than two fastpasses.  If true, the rush to book your fastpasses 60 days before your resort check-in will be nothing compared to how this will work!


----------



## luv2cheer92

Tom_E_D said:


> If the rule is simply that you can book another Genie+ pass as long as your next one is more than 120 minutes away, you could theoretically book one for each hour of the day (if they allow only one per hour; MaxPass had no such rule, although Fastpass+ did) before 7:30 in the morning. MaxPass let you stack more than two fastpasses.  If true, the rush to book your fastpasses 60 days before your resort check-in will be nothing compared to how this will work!


I think you may be interpreting it differently. Its not (at least MP wasn't) 2 hours in the future. Its 2 hours _after _making your last LL. So if you make one at 7 for 1pm, you could then make another one at 9.


----------



## Alexis56578

I'm still confused lol. I'm not sure I like the system just based on how little I understand it right now.


----------



## MMSM

jujubiee4 said:


> I like this except for Hollywood Studios and Animal Kingdom there is no extra evening magic hours.
> There is morning but some people don't rope drop.(Us) lol
> 
> So if you don't rope drop is Epcot and AK worth getting genie+?


I thought that SDD was not part of Genie +


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

MMSM said:


> I thought that SDD was not part of Genie +


It is part of Genie +.  It’s not an ILL$ attraction.


----------



## Tom_E_D

luv2cheer92 said:


> I think you may be interpreting it differently. Its not (at least MP wasn't) 2 hours in the future. Its 2 hours _after _making your last LL. So if you make one at 7 for 1pm, you could then make another one at 9.


Go back to Grasshopper2016's post 3,027, which quotes a vlogger saying that you can book another one "right away" if your Genie+ reservation is two hours in the future. (I looked at the Molly video. She does indeed say that .) Admittedly, MaxPass was different. Admittedly, other bloggers are saying it'll work like MaxPass (except 120 minutes instead of 90). It's just another example of contradictory interpretations of what Disney has said. My post 3,036 was intended to point out how ridiculous things could get* if* Disney did indeed allow you to book another one right away as long as you didn't have one in the next two hours. You could book everything that was showing as more than two hours in the future, then book something for the first hour the park was opened.


----------



## luv2cheer92

Tom_E_D said:


> Go back to Grasshopper2016's post 3,027, which quotes a vlogger saying that you can book another one "right away" if your Genie+ reservation is two hours in the future. (I looked at the Molly video. She does indeed say that .) Admittedly, MaxPass was different. Admittedly, other bloggers are saying it'll work like MaxPass (except 120 minutes instead of 90). It's just another example of contradictory interpretations of what Disney has said. My post 3,036 was intended to point out how ridiculous things could get* if* Disney did indeed allow you to book another one right away as long as you didn't have one in the next two hours. You could book everything that was showing as more than two hours in the future, then book something for the first hour the park was opened.


Thanks, that's what I get for trying to multi-task lol.


----------



## katyringo

Orsino said:


> While limiting LL to once per day per attraction is a step back overall, I can't help but think that this is the way FP should have been all along. Once per day would have kept FP supplies more plentiful later into the day. If they had implemented this restriction from the start, I think most would accept it as 'reasonable,' since those who wanted to ride multiple times a day were already used to queuing up in standby multiple times.
> 
> I've also realized that I've been thinking about MaxPass and Genie+ all wrong. While Genie+ might *operate* the same way (or very similar) as MaxPass did, the value proposition is quite different. For MaxPass we were buying access to electronic FP. In other words, we already had access to paper fastpass; MaxPass was simply to allow access to FP on the phone. Even then I found the 15 dollars per day to be well worth it (in attraction rich Disneyland and nearby C. Adventure).
> 
> So now with Genie+ the price is still 15 dollars per day, but I'm not merely upgrading to electronic access, Genie+ is buying access too. Without MaxPass, guests could still access paper fastpass. Without Genie+, guests can't. I keep missing this difference.



It's a little less known that maxpass also alllowed you more fastpasses in a day. So I don't necessarily agree with this comparison. It wasn't apples for apples. The time between when you could pull Paper fastpass and the time between maxpass was different.  I get that fastpass plus was free and  now we have to pay but maxpass did give you an advantage and your paid for that advantage.


----------



## katyringo

Marionnette said:


> Psst...Genie+ is $15/day at WDW. It will be $20/day at DLR.



it also includes photo pass at DLR..


----------



## Aurora79

Length of stay vs length of ticket?

I’m sorry if this has been answered (I did a search, but didn’t find a definitive answer)…if I book a 7 night package with a 4 day park ticket, do I have to get Genie+ (if booked in advance) for 4 or 7 days?


----------



## CBMom01

HopperFan said:


> From Disney website ~
> 
> " It will also be available as a single-day purchase through the My Disney Experience app. If you have an existing ticket, you will be able to modify it to include Disney Genie+ service within the app."
> 
> I hope so because if we have to call .... we are all doomed.  I think they said you can go online and do after midnight of the day ... so makes sense we can do on our MDE.


I may add it to my whole trip in advance *and* buy magic bands we don’t really need because I don’t have confidence that MDE + magic mobile will actually work when I need it to. So they’re going to get more $ out of me because Disney IT can’t get its **** together


----------



## scrappinginontario

Aurora79 said:


> Length of stay vs length of ticket?
> 
> I’m sorry if this has been answered (I did a search, but didn’t find a definitive answer)…if I book a 7 night package with a 4 day park ticket, do I have to get Genie+ (if booked in advance) for 4 or 7 days?


Genie+ can only be used in the parks so it goes to reason that if you purchase it for the 4 days of your tickets then you will be able to use it the 4 days you’re in the parks.  If you don’t go to a park, you’re not using a day if your ticket, this you won’t use a day of your Genie+ either.


CBMom01 said:


> I may add it to my whole trip in advance *and* buy magic bands we don’t really need because I don’t have confidence that MDE + magic mobile will actually work when I need it to. So they’re going to get more $ out of me because Disney IT can’t get its **** together


Disney will give you cards so there is no ‘need’ to purchase MBs.  Many may choose to purchase them but it is a choice, not something you’re being forced to do.


----------



## mickey916

I saw mention that you can't cancel or reschedule your ILL pass and that you will get assigned a one hour window to use it. What happens if they assign you an hour for when you're already scheduled for an ADR? Any guesses?


----------



## snikki

mickey916 said:


> I saw mention that you can't cancel or reschedule your ILL pass and that you will get assigned a one hour window to use it. What happens if they assign you an hour for when you're already scheduled for an ADR? Any guesses?



It seems that you pick the time for ILL but we won’t actually know until it starts.


----------



## toontoy

we have a trip planned for may and for the 5 days in the parks based upon our fastpass plus old style touring this is going to cost us over 1200 on top of the other increases. Sadly my wife is showing me other options and I think this pushed her over the edge pricewise. I am wondering if that was the goal to have a ticket increase like this or not. Well maybe in a few years or so we will be back. other trips will be just as fun if not more and more luxury and exploration for less


----------



## CarolynFH

mickey916 said:


> I saw mention that you can't cancel or reschedule your ILL pass and that you will get assigned a one hour window to use it. What happens if they assign you an hour for when you're already scheduled for an ADR? Any guesses?


Genie will be part of MDE, so it will know you have an ADR scheduled and probably won’t let you book a conflicting Genie+ or ILL - just as in the days of FP+ it wouldn’t let you book a FP that conflicted with an ADR. They could also treat ILL as they have BGs for RotR - you can show up late for your BG if you have an ADR at the same time.


----------



## MainMom

toontoy said:


> we have a trip planned for may and for the 5 days in the parks based upon our fastpass plus old style touring this is going to cost us over 1200 on top of the other increases. Sadly my wife is showing me other options and I think this pushed her over the edge pricewise. I am wondering if that was the goal to have a ticket increase like this or not. Well maybe in a few years or so we will be back. other trips will be just as fun if not more and more luxury and exploration for less


We have a 7 day trip planned for June and, as of right now, we are planning only 4 days of Genie+ & no ILL$$. But we have been multiple times and rope drop. We are bringing 3 young kids who have never been, but they will go with the flow. I plan on getting on everything. I’m not really worried about that aspect. Maybe wait until some reports come in and people talk about their strategies. It might work out that you don’t need to buy it all.


----------



## mickey916

CarolynFH said:


> Genie will be part of MDE, so it will know you have an ADR scheduled and probably won’t let you book a conflicting Genie+ or ILL - just as in the days of FP+ it wouldn’t let you book a FP that conflicted with an ADR. They could also treat ILL as they have BGs for RotR - you can show up late for your BG if you have an ADR at the same time.


I was hoping that might be the case....I have no experience with FP+, as the last time we went it was still paper FPs...


----------



## Zippa D Doodah

Thoughts and prayers for the CMs who have to deal with explaining this whole thing to guests when it first launches. There's 150+ pages of chit chat here among savvy WDW folks and yet there seems to be many questions and much confusion. Can you just imagine when this wave crashes upon the rocks of the general public?


----------



## Tom_E_D

mickey916 said:


> I saw mention that you can't cancel or reschedule your ILL pass and that you will get assigned a one hour window to use it. What happens if they assign you an hour for when you're already scheduled for an ADR? Any guesses?


I don't think the problem will be with your ILL time and ADR time conflicting. As others have pointed out, you'll very likely know what ILL time you're buying before you pay for it. The problems could be with regard to what happens when one or the other doesn't run according to schedule. What if the restaurant can't seat you at your reservation time? What if service is slow? I've had meals where I didn't get out of the restaurant until an hour or more later than I would have expected.


----------



## Haley R

Not sure if this has been shared:
https://www.disneytouristblog.com/lightning-lanes-genie-plus-disney-world-faq-guide/


----------



## mickey916

Haley R said:


> Not sure if this has been shared:
> https://www.disneytouristblog.com/lightning-lanes-genie-plus-disney-world-faq-guide/


Thank you! That's very helpful.


----------



## elgerber

I don’t think I have seen this answer. Has anyone seen when you can book your second ILL attraction, if you can really only book one at 7am?  Will that leave a strong chance that we can really only book one because the 2nd might be sold out when we can book another?


----------



## LSUfan4444

Quick question...so if I have 5 day park hoppers already for January, I'll just need to add Genie +each day before adding my first reservation, correct? Any clue that time that will open for the day?


----------



## NkD

Does anyone know if you can book Genie+ selections that overlap with individual lightning lane paid attraction times (or visa versa)?  So if you pay for Space Mountain 10-11a, could you also have a Genie+ selection 10-11a?


----------



## HopperFan

CBMom01 said:


> I may add it to my whole trip in advance *and* buy magic bands we don’t really need because I don’t have confidence that MDE + magic mobile will actually work when I need it to. So they’re going to get more $ out of me because Disney IT can’t get its **** together



Hmmm never thought about that being a goal on their part. 

In July DS1 and I wore our MagicBands, DH used a hard ticket and DS2, DD & SIL used their iPhones with the app.  MB and hard ticket were very fast, the iPhone scan was slow to get it to pick up.  Last thing I want to do is use Magic Mobile for my ticket. We will continue with our MB - nothing to do but lift our arms.


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

I’m not sure anyone knows for sure yet.


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

It seems like that would be a bad idea to allow that.  It might lead a lot of inexperienced tourists to miss one of their ILL$ or Geine+ selections because they don’t account for wait time / pre-shows /etc.


----------



## mousestruck

I’m trying to catch up on all these posts. My head is spinning. And who the heck is Molly?


----------



## Brucerob1962

NkD said:


> Does anyone know if you can book Genie+ selections that overlap with individual lightning lane paid attraction times (or visa versa)?  So if you pay for Space Mountain 10-11a, could you also have a Genie+ selection 10-11a?


I would think so because they are independent of each other


----------



## lorileahb

mousestruck said:


> I’m trying to catch up on all these posts. My head is spinning. And who the heck is Molly?



It's pure insanity...


----------



## Tom_E_D

mousestruck said:


> I’m trying to catch up on all these posts. My head is spinning. And who the heck is Molly?


Molly is a vlogger on AllEars. Here's a link to the Molly video I (and others) mentioned.


----------



## mousestruck

Tom_E_D said:


> Molly is a vlogger on AllEars. Here's a link to the Molly video I (and others) mentioned.


Got it. Thank you!


----------



## scrappinginontario

elgerber said:


> I don’t think I have seen this answer. Has anyone seen when you can book your second ILL attraction, if you can really only book one at 7am?  Will that leave a strong chance that we can really only book one because the 2nd might be sold out when we can book another?


Your thread was merged with the Genie thread as your question and many more are being discussed here.


----------



## lanejudy

NkD said:


> Does anyone know if you can book Genie+ selections that overlap with individual lightning lane paid attraction times (or visa versa)?  So if you pay for Space Mountain 10-11a, could you also have a Genie+ selection 10-11a?


I don't understand there to be an overlap.  The attractions available for individual purchase are not available through Genie+.


----------



## elgerber

scrappinginontario said:


> Your thread was merged with the Genie thread as your question and many more are being discussed here.


Did I post on the wrong thread by mistake? Or is there another thread besides the “Genie Announcement” thread?


----------



## CarolynFH

Brucerob1962 said:


> I would think so because they are independent of each other


Well, OTOH it all goes through Genie (MDE) (Genie+ and ILLs are just parts of Genie), which will “know” what your overall schedule is. So, just like MDE used to notify you if you had a potential conflict between an ADR and a FP, Genie could let you know of or maybe even prevent a conflict between an ILL and/or a Genie+ LL and/or an ADR.


----------



## scrappinginontario

elgerber said:


> Did I post on the wrong thread by mistake? Or is there another thread besides the “Genie Announcement” thread?


You created a brand new thread to discuss a question already being discussed in the Genie thread.  We’re trying to keep similar threads together rather than each person start a new thread to ask questions that are already being covered in the main Genie thread.


----------



## elgerber

scrappinginontario said:


> You created a brand new thread to discuss a question already being discussed in the Genie thread.  We’re trying to keep similar threads together rather than each person start a new thread to ask questions that are already being covered in the main Genie thread.


Lol I didn’t, haven’t started my own thread in ages, but that’s ok.
Still haven’t seen the answer.


----------



## nurseberta

NkD said:


> Does anyone know if you can book Genie+ selections that overlap with individual lightning lane paid attraction times (or visa versa)?  So if you pay for Space Mountain 10-11a, could you also have a Genie+ selection 10-11a?



If you look at Molly’s video from all ears (link is posted somewhere on this thread)
She goes into detail showing you what the app looks like. Screen looks similar to old FP+ as in your can view G+ selections and ILL as well. I imagine as it’s on the same viewing window it’s in the same application and it won’t allow Overlap but that’s just my gut instincts!!


----------



## Grasshopper2016

Ugh. The FAQ from Disney Tourist Blog linked in post #3,056 says the opposite of Molly: 

“Walt Disney World has confirmed that guests will be able to make another reservation 120 minutes after their first reservation even if they have not yet redeemed the first Genie+ selection.

In practice, this means that you might make a reservation at 7:05 am for Splash Mountain that has a return time of 10:00 am. At 9:05 am–before riding Splash Mountain, you’d be able to make another ride reservation.”


----------



## scrappinginontario

NkD said:


> Does anyone know if you can book Genie+ selections that overlap with individual lightning lane paid attraction times (or visa versa)?  So if you pay for Space Mountain 10-11a, could you also have a Genie+ selection 10-11a?


Hour post has been merged with the Genie thread.


elgerber said:


> Lol I didn’t, haven’t started my own thread in ages, but that’s ok.
> Still haven’t seen the answer.


Sorry, my bad.  I had two posts quoted and accidentally put the merge message against yours.


----------



## Jennasis

I need to know if you can park hop with Genie+.


----------



## scrappinginontario

elgerber said:


> I don’t think I have seen this answer. Has anyone seen when you can book your second ILL attraction, if you can really only book one at 7am?  Will that leave a strong chance that we can really only book one because the 2nd might be sold out when we can book another?


im not sure the Disney announcement specified this.  It’s something I’m interested in learning too.


----------



## elgerber

scrappinginontario said:


> Hour post has been merged with the Genie thread.
> Sorry, my bad.  I had two posts quoted and accidentally put the merge message against yours.


I thought I was crazy there for a minute!!


----------



## scrappinginontario

Jennasis said:


> I need to know if you can park hop with Genie+.


Yes.  When you purchase it for a day it can be used at all parks you go to on that day.


----------



## scrappinginontario

elgerber said:


> I thought I was crazy there for a minute!!


No  just busy on the boards right now for the moderators..  Thanks for understanding.


----------



## Jennasis

scrappinginontario said:


> Yes.  When you purchase it for a day it can be used at all parks you go to on that day.



Thanks!  I've looked but can't seem to find any official verbiage from Disney confirming this.  While we only plan to use G+ at MK and DHS, there will be some days we hop between those parks.


----------



## Disturbia

I think it’s a mistake to have everyone book 7 am.

I thought I could book my first genie+ and the other 2 LL at 7 am for later in the day (like scheduled fast passes)


----------



## katyringo

From what I understand after reading here, and lots of blogs is:

If your a resort guest at 7 am you can:
-book your first genie plus selection for the first available return time. You can make a second one 120minutes later or after you use your first.
- book and pay for up to 2 lightening lane passes. You get to chose your return time.
-virtual que if a ride is using it for a park you have a reservation.

if you are not a resort guest at 7 am you can:
-book your first genie plus selection for the first available return time. You can make a second one 120minutes later or after you use your first.
-virtual que if a ride is using it for a park you have a reservation.


if you are NOT a resort guest you cannot buy individual lightening lane upgrade until offical park opening time.

You get the next available time for Genie plus. You will be able to see the time 

you can choose your time with individual lightening lane uogrades

Questions I still have:

If I have a park hopper can I buy lightening lane upgrade for any park at 7am for after 2pm.

if I have park hopper do I have to wait until 2pm to use genie plus in another park or can I watch return times and start booking them earlier for after 2pm.

will genie plus use multiple expirence lightening lane passes when a ride goes down during your return window..


----------



## Disturbia

We are considering park hopping so I would like to know the answer as well.

We downgraded our resort from deluxe (so booked parks that had extended hours for deluxe guests) and I don’t want to rearrange all the days as ADRs (difficult to get ones- Oga, Space, BOG, Ohana) are already set and are hard to change.  Now they’ve added an extra hour to AK (until Oct 30th) and some days MK in Oct.  

Planning is horrible with all these last minute changes.


----------



## CJN

Jennasis said:


> Thanks!  I've looked but can't seem to find any official verbiage from Disney confirming this.  While we only plan to use G+ at MK and DHS, there will be some days we hop between those parks.



If you scroll down on Disney’s official info page here:

https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/genie/?int_cmp=INS-intWDWtoWDW-Genie

you‘ll find this confirming hopping with G+


----------



## fflmaster

What I just don't understand is that Disney is not allowing us to pick the time of day for our first Genie+ time. So, if I go on at 7am to pick our first ride, yet not doing rope drop or have a breakfast reservation before heading to the park I have to wait and keep refreshing the app to hopefully start booking our first ride for when we actually are going to the park. 

This seems like a very poor setup to not allow guests to pick times and make it a first available time only.


----------



## PepperjackDragon

nurseberta said:


> Strategically I would attempt to make 1st LL for at minimum 2 hours going forward so that you can book a second attraction prior to that. My guess is what will happen is that people will want to book high interest rides and then as people arrive and attempt to book SDD for example will keep pushing back to later on the day. If you get one for 3pm then at least you have one, then you have time to work the rest of the not as popular rides before that.
> 
> what I worry about is if I pay for Genie + and then it ends up being a race to grab a time and end op not having any availability to ride something like SDD then that would really stink. Is this new G+ going to be like getting a BG all day long? Hopefully not as that will make most people stressed and therefore makes the system not what it is intended to be, something to manage crowds and wait times.


I would think the strategy would be to try to book your main ride at park shortly after 2pm, then focus on your smaller tier quick in and outs at park 1 until you are ready for a mid day break-then hop to the park with the top tier attraction do that and then focus on quick in and outs, (possibly another longer wait ride after lunch first then the easier access rides) if there is reasonable availability. Unfortunately I will be learning this day off so that is awful.


----------



## PepperjackDragon

fflmaster said:


> What I just don't understand is that Disney is not allowing us to pick the time of day for our first Genie+ time. So, if I go on at 7am to pick our first ride, yet not doing rope drop or have a breakfast reservation before heading to the park I have to wait and keep refreshing the app to hopefully start booking our first ride for when we actually are going to the park.
> 
> This seems like a very poor setup to not allow guests to pick times and make it a first available time only.


This is my biggest concern. Especially when combined with extended evening hours.


----------



## katyringo

PepperjackDragon said:


> This is my biggest concern. Especially when combined with extended evening hours.



yes what this system is- is a in real Time system. You are right. If you aren't rope dropping then you won't have a reason to book at 7am. At 7am return times are going to be for the first hour the park is open. You are correct you will want to watch the times for when you think you will get into the parks.
If I can offer reassurance tho- this is exactly how maxpass worked and I never felt like I couldn't enjoy my mornings we weren't rope dropping.  It also mean that while we were at breakfast or whatever - that I could start stacking them for when we would be in the park.  The same strategy works for mid day breaks.


----------



## luv2cheer92

LSUfan4444 said:


> Quick question...so if I have 5 day park hoppers already for January, I'll just need to add Genie +each day before adding my first reservation, correct? Any clue that time that will open for the day?


Midnight


----------



## igrsod

Zippa D Doodah said:


> Thoughts and prayers for the CMs who have to deal with explaining this whole thing to guests when it first launches. There's 150+ pages of chit chat here among savvy WDW folks and yet there seems to be many questions and much confusion. Can you just imagine when this wave crashes upon the rocks of the general public?


And yet according to Disney, this was supposed to make your vacation planning easier, and we asked for it.  OH BOY
Honestly, I think it's Disney's fault, they have put out the information in bits and pieces with information missing.  So then everyone is left speculating and scratching their heads.


----------



## emilymad

fflmaster said:


> What I just don't understand is that Disney is not allowing us to pick the time of day for our first Genie+ time. So, if I go on at 7am to pick our first ride, yet not doing rope drop or have a breakfast reservation before heading to the park I have to wait and keep refreshing the app to hopefully start booking our first ride for when we actually are going to the park.
> 
> This seems like a very poor setup to not allow guests to pick times and make it a first available time only.



And what time the later in the day LL become available could vary greatly on how crowded the parks are so any knowledge from people who already traveled may mean nothing.  If the crowds are low when Genie+ is rolled out then maybe you can wait until 9am to book the first LL but if it is crowded then maybe by 7:30am you need to book.

Disney took the constant refreshing for FP+ from during the day to 7am each day.  I am not sure how that is any better.


----------



## magicwdw

So can we still use our magic bands to get on rides at lightning lanes with Genie+?  I know we use our phones to buy Genie+ and then select one ride at a time.  I'm hoping we don't have to scan with our phones at ride entrance also.


----------



## Turksmom

magicwdw said:


> So can we still use our magic bands to get on rides at lightning lanes with Genie+?  I know we use our phones to buy Genie+ and then select one ride at a time.  I'm hoping we don't have to scan with our phones at ride entrance also.


It will work with magic bands or plastic cards.


----------



## JenSop

fflmaster said:


> What I just don't understand is that Disney is not allowing us to pick the time of day for our first Genie+ time. So, if I go on at 7am to pick our first ride, yet not doing rope drop or have a breakfast reservation before heading to the park I have to wait and keep refreshing the app to hopefully start booking our first ride for when we actually are going to the park.
> 
> This seems like a very poor setup to not allow guests to pick times and make it a first available time only.


Exactly!  If you're not going to the park in the morning, you will have to constantly be refreshing until you can see a time that works for you.  I used to pick my FP+ times for after lunch.  HOW do I make that happen with Genie+??  I am SO annoyed.


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

katyringo said:


> if you are NOT a resort guest you cannot buy individual lightening lane upgrade until offical park opening time.


To build on this question, at *which park's* official opening time can I buy the ILL$ pass?   For example, if I'm an offsite guest and starting the day at MK, then hopping to Epcot, if I want to buy a pass for Remy, can I do that when MK opens or do I have to wait until Epcot opens?


----------



## FRANKTSJR

ENJDisneyFan said:


> To build on this question, at *which park's* official opening time can I buy the ILL$ pass?   For example, if I'm an offsite guest and starting the day at MK, then hopping to Epcot, if I want to buy a pass for Remy, can I do that when MK opens or do I have to wait until Epcot opens?


I believe it will be for the Park that you have a park reservation for that day.


----------



## TioAdis78

JenSop said:


> Exactly!  If you're not going to the park in the morning, you will have to constantly be refreshing until you can see a time that works for you.  I used to pick my FP+ times for after lunch.  HOW do I make that happen with Genie+??  I am SO annoyed.


I could be wrong, but it’s my understanding that with Genie+ you’ll only be able to select the nearest wait time available, so hitting refresh will only display a new timeslot when the current one runs out, unlike Fastpass+. Only the individual attraction selections will let you choose from several time frames


----------



## Pinnochio

Taking a trip with Daughter/SIL/2 grandkids....will we be able to somehow alert Genie that we are a party of 6 and all our rides should be scheduled together as a group??.....


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

I'm assuming it will work like FP, if you are all linked in friends & family it will allow you to plan together.


----------



## Figment1990

elgerber said:


> I don’t think I have seen this answer. Has anyone seen when you can book your second ILL attraction, if you can really only book one at 7am?  Will that leave a strong chance that we can really only book one because the 2nd might be sold out when we can book another?


I asked a similar question on page 133 of this thread and I’m still waiting for someone to confirm (with reference to info from Disney) one way or another.  I read it as you book 1 ILL at 7 and then I’m not sure when you get to book the next. Unfortunately, I don’t think we will know most of these details until the first day when actual first hand reports start rolling in.


----------



## sponica

Anyone have ideas how to make either Genie+ or individual attractions work with rider swap?  I suppose I could just break the Genie+ and individual attractions up into different groups of people, but if my older daughter wants to re-ride that wouldn't be feasible.


----------



## scrappinginontario

sponica said:


> Anyone have ideas how to make either Genie+ or individual attractions work with rider swap?  I suppose I could just break the Genie+ and individual attractions up into different groups of people, but if my older daughter wants to re-ride that wouldn't be feasible.


These details have not been released.  I'm hoping it works like current rider swap but truly, nobody knows at this time.


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

Figment1990 said:


> I asked a similar question on page 133 of this thread and I’m still waiting for someone to confirm (with reference to info from Disney) one way or another.  I read it as you book 1 ILL at 7 and then I’m not sure when you get to book the next. Unfortunately, I don’t think we will know most of these details until the first day when actual first hand reports start rolling in.


Obviously just a guess, but I’d bet since you are limited to 2 for the day that you can book both at 7am.


----------



## Turksmom

Have any Genie-pigs received any info direct from Disney? I check in on the 17th, and have park reservations on the 18th and 19th and nothing from Disney. No email, no pop up notifications, no notes on the "my plans" section of MDE. I've been following along here and actively searching out info from other sources, but I can't believe they aren't reaching out to guests


----------



## Grasshopper2016

Given that Disney has made a point of saying that you can book "your first" ILL at 7:00 (or park opening for offsite), it seems that you cannot book both at the same time.  But that does indeed run the risk of the slots all selling out before you tap in for your first ride.  Thus, by the time you are eligible to purchase your second one, the opportunity is gone.  And that seems stupid and unfair.  I suspect that Disney is doing it this way in order to try to make sure that everyone has a chance to purchase at least one ILL, even on the most crowded days.  But I think there is a good chance that they will receive so much push-back that they will change this.


----------



## Bahamontes

Turksmom said:


> Have any Genie-pigs received any info direct from Disney? I check in on the 17th, and have park reservations on the 18th and 19th and nothing from Disney. No email, no pop up notifications, no notes on the "my plans" section of MDE. I've been following along here and actively searching out info from other sources, but I can't believe they aren't reaching out to guests



I arrive the 18th, and am in the same boat with regard to utter and complete radio silence!


----------



## Marionnette

Figment1990 said:


> I asked a similar question on page 133 of this thread and I’m still waiting for someone to confirm (with reference to info from Disney) one way or another.  I read it as you book 1 ILL at 7 and then I’m not sure when you get to book the next. Unfortunately, I don’t think we will know most of these details until the first day when actual first hand reports start rolling in.


I don't think Disney will ever come out with an official statement in regard to whether both ILL$ choices can be scheduled right at 7 AM (for onsite) or the first ILL$ needs to be used before the 2nd can be booked. It's likely to end up that we learn from first-hand reports. 


sponica said:


> Anyone have ideas how to make either Genie+ or individual attractions work with rider swap?  I suppose I could just break the Genie+ and individual attractions up into different groups of people, but if my older daughter wants to re-ride that wouldn't be feasible.


I think Genie+ rider swap will be handled the same way it was with FP+ with the exception that only 1 additional rider can accompany the person who sat out.

ILL$ is anybody guess. On one hand, one would like it to work like rider swap did under FP+, but when each seat in an ILL$ attraction is valued up to $11 per person, "giving away" a seat might go against the mouse's nature. It's another way & see question.


----------



## jodybird511

I thought the wording by Disney explicitly said that you can book IA "one at a time," which to me, means you cannot book both at 7:00am...


----------



## thptrek

HopperFan said:


> Hmmm never thought about that being a goal on their part.
> 
> In July DS1 and I wore our MagicBands, DH used a hard ticket and DS2, DD & SIL used their iPhones with the app.  MB and hard ticket were very fast, the iPhone scan was slow to get it to pick up.  Last thing I want to do is use Magic Mobile for my ticket. We will continue with our MB - nothing to do but lift our arms.


I am visually impaired and using MB is so much easier as compared to having to put on my readers and getting my phone out.


----------



## DavidNYC

katyringo said:


> yes what this system is- is a in real Time system. You are right. If you aren't rope dropping then you won't have a reason to book at 7am. At 7am return times are going to be for the first hour the park is open. You are correct you will want to watch the times for when you think you will get into the parks.
> If I can offer reassurance tho- this is exactly how maxpass worked and I never felt like I couldn't enjoy my mornings we weren't rope dropping.  It also mean that while we were at breakfast or whatever - that I could start stacking them for when we would be in the park.  The same strategy works for mid day breaks.



Well - that still means you are tied to your phone not only more - but with more pressure than before.   While that strategy worked for many of the less popular rides - there were a handful where the times accellerated very rapidly in the beginning of the day.  You'll see that even more so at DW almost certainly. I don't thing someone's idea of a pleasant morning is having to constantly monitor the phone to see when their rides have hit a 1pm return time in the morning and have to keep scanning down the list to make decisions do you take one ride that has hit 1pm or wait until the ride you were hoping to ride hits 1pm.  This is the exact opposite of everything Disney has been telling everyone about how this system takes the pressure off.  Only ropedroppers up at 7am have a bit of ability to plan without having to constantly monitor a phone.  We'll see in a week - but I highly doubt you're going to be able to start stacking at breakfast at WDW for anything but the least popular rides.


----------



## Disturbia

jodybird511 said:


> I thought the wording by Disney explicitly said that you can book IA "one at a time," which to me, means you cannot book both at 7:00am...


To me it sounded like you can only book once for one time period, but can book and pay for both.  If I booked a LL at MK and wanted to park hop to Epcot, I can’t book Space and SDMT?  I should be able to book both, but I guess I have more options at epcot if I’m hopping, but I might not get Remy if I can’t book my Epcot LL until 2 pm (BG would be out of question as I can’t tap in by 1).


----------



## Disturbia

I want to really knowing I can schedule my first genie+ pass at say 11 am and get ready at a relaxed pace.  I also have some breakfast reservations.


----------



## bsmcneil

luv2cheer92 said:


> Still not what I was referring to (not even close). But that's ok.


So what were you referring to? I mean - I went back and looked and you bolded the comment about ROTR and then said it was often regarded as the best theme park ride in the world. @Jonfw2 made the point that you don't have to pay 15 dollars but that's not what was originally stated (someone said it was a one and done for them) and someone else pointed out they didn't feel they'd pay 15 dollars for something already experienced (whereas you state you will). So what are you trying to get


----------



## Frozen2014

jodybird511 said:


> I thought the wording by Disney explicitly said that you can book IA "one at a time," which to me, means you cannot book both at 7:00am...


Last night I was reading an article (on disney tourist blog?) that said :

"The system should allow both to be booked simultaneously, as they work independently of one another, and each have their own cost."


----------



## jodybird511

Frozen2014 said:


> Last night I was reading an article (on disney tourist blog?) that said :
> 
> "The system should allow both to be booked simultaneously, as they work independently of one another, and each have their own cost."


Right--I'm ONLY talking about the IA piece--you can book 2 attractions per day, but "one at a time."  To me, that means you can only book 1 of the 2 at 7:00 am, but...who knows?


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

jodybird511 said:


> Right--I'm ONLY talking about the IA piece--you can book 2 attractions per day, but "one at a time."  To me, that means you can only book 1 of the 2 at 7:00 am, but...who knows?


But then that begs the question, when can you book the second one?  Not until you've used the first one?  Or...?  So many unanswered questions.


----------



## DavidNYC

Disturbia said:


> I want to really knowing I can schedule my first genie+ pass at say 11 am and get ready at a relaxed pace.  I also have some breakfast reservations.



You can - but you may be locked out of a bunch of rides or find you can't get a return time until late afternoon.  And the problem also is - the only way to know whether making your first pass at 11am will screw you over is to monitor the app earlier . . . yes - this is getting very circular . . .

Presumably we'll have some data after a while that gives you an approximate idea of what rides sell out at what times and how fast reservations move forward for different rides . . .but again - you've now created a system where if you don't want to be up at 7am and ropedrop (and actually care about what you want to do that day and being able to take advantage of Genie+) you need to a do a whole lot more research prior to your trip to know how you'll need to schedule rides to plan a day around a non-ropedrop schedule.


----------



## lanejudy

Disturbia said:


> To me it sounded like you can only book once for one time period, but can book and pay for both.  If I booked a LL at MK and wanted to park hop to Epcot, I can’t book Space and SDMT?  I should be able to book both, but I guess I have more options at epcot if I’m hopping, but I might not get Remy if I can’t book my Epcot LL until 2 pm (BG would be out of question as I can’t tap in by 1).


Maybe I'm misunderstanding your intent, but I don't believe you can book 2 Individual attractions at MK and then hop to Epcot for another 2.  It's 2 total per day.  They can be split across 2 parks -- so you can book Space or 7DMT and Remy or FEA, but not 2 in each park.  The question seems to remain as to _when _you can book the 2nd attraction - whether that is at 7am, after the first is used, or after you arrive at the second park.


----------



## lanejudy

Disturbia said:


> I want to really knowing I can schedule my first genie+ pass at say 11 am and get ready at a relaxed pace.  I also have some breakfast reservations.


I believe the Genie+ selections are "next available" and you don't select the time.  You can select the time for the extra-cost Individual attractions.


----------



## elgerber

Figment1990 said:


> I asked a similar question on page 133 of this thread and I’m still waiting for someone to confirm (with reference to info from Disney) one way or another.  I read it as you book 1 ILL at 7 and then I’m not sure when you get to book the next. Unfortunately, I don’t think we will know most of these details until the first day when actual first hand reports start rolling in.



Agreed, but sadly I will be one of those with the first reports. :-(


Turksmom said:


> Have any Genie-pigs received any info direct from Disney? I check in on the 17th, and have park reservations on the 18th and 19th and nothing from Disney. No email, no pop up notifications, no notes on the "my plans" section of MDE. I've been following along here and actively searching out info from other sources, but I can't believe they aren't reaching out to guests


Just a generic email saying when it starts nothing about our specific vacation.


jodybird511 said:


> I thought the wording by Disney explicitly said that you can book IA "one at a time," which to me, means you cannot book both at 7:00am...



Yep, that is how I read it, but I sure hope I am wrong.


ENJDisneyFan said:


> But then that begs the question, when can you book the second one?  Not until you've used the first one?  Or...?  So many unanswered questions.



Exactly!!!! and if we can get shut out of the 2nd one easily, I agree, that's just dumb.  Then the only option is standby.  If they want our $$$, which we know they do, let us buy both rides at 7 am.


----------



## bcinohio

When can you buy your park tickets with Genie + added on for a December trip?  I have been waiting to purchase them because I wanted to get them with Genie+.
Thanks.


----------



## sponica

I think you can just add it on in the app.  I mean I booked my package for next April in March, I assume at some point I'd be able to add it on in the MDE app.


----------



## michaeldorn1

I apologize if this has already been answered:  Does anyone know if Disney Gift Cards can be added to MDE as a form of payment ( which can then pay for Genie+ and IA$ ) or will it only allow a credit/debit card or both?  Thanks for the info!


----------



## lanejudy

You will be able to add Genie+ to existing tickets through MDE.  I haven't heard a definite that Genie+ will be an add-on at the time of ticket purchase (like the Hopper or Waterparks options) but if so I don't expect it to be available until Genie goes live next week.


----------



## CWTC

elgerber said:


> Exactly!!!! and if we can get shut out of the 2nd one easily, I agree, that's just dumb. Then the only option is standby. If they want our $$$, which we know they do, let us buy both rides at 7 am.


Agreed.  I’d much rather buy them both and then be able to plan the rest of the day around it.


----------



## Marionnette

michaeldorn1 said:


> I apologize if this has already been answered:  Does anyone know if Disney Gift Cards can be added to MDE as a form of payment ( which can then pay for Genie+ and IA$ ) or will it only allow a credit/debit card or both?  Thanks for the info!


No one knows yet. If it works like mobile ordering does now, you can enter a GC but it does not store it. You have to re-enter the GC numbers every time you make a purchase. In its early stages, mobile ordering did not allow GCs at all.


----------



## MainMom

katyringo said:


> yes what this system is- is a in real Time system. You are right. If you aren't rope dropping then you won't have a reason to book at 7am. At 7am return times are going to be for the first hour the park is open. You are correct you will want to watch the times for when you think you will get into the parks.
> If I can offer reassurance tho- this is exactly how maxpass worked and I never felt like I couldn't enjoy my mornings we weren't rope dropping.  It also mean that while we were at breakfast or whatever - that I could start stacking them for when we would be in the park.  The same strategy works for mid day breaks.



I get this, I just loathe the idea of having to be checking my phone all of the time. This is my biggest issue with the new system. More than paying for it.


----------



## Thumper99

sponica said:


> Anyone have ideas how to make either Genie+ or individual attractions work with rider swap?  I suppose I could just break the Genie+ and individual attractions up into different groups of people, but if my older daughter wants to re-ride that wouldn't be feasible.


Could you switch MB if we wanted?  For example my DD and I dont like roller coasters. So could DH and son use our MB to ride a ride twice by putting on our MB to ride the second time using our “ slots”?


----------



## Figment1990

elgerber said:


> Agreed, but sadly I will be one of those with the first reports. :-(
> 
> Just a generic email saying when it starts nothing about our specific vacation.
> 
> 
> Yep, that is how I read it, but I sure hope I am wrong.
> 
> 
> Exactly!!!! and if we can get shut out of the 2nd one easily, I agree, that's just dumb.  Then the only option is standby.  If they want our $$$, which we know they do, let us buy both rides at 7 am.


Even if it's a a 50/50 chance we will get a 2nd ILL that we want, it still makes planning more anxiety-ridden.  For example,  if (and I'm still deciding if I want to pay for any of this), I plan a park hopping day and I am willing to pay to ride RotR  and Remy, it would be much better for me to know at 7am if I'm going to be hopping to Epcot for Remy.  

In general I am just thoroughly exhausted and overwhelmed by the fact that I now have to study up all this new stuff or  I'll have to be constantly planning on the fly on vacation.  Yes, I'm annoyed at the cost.  I know it's not a requirement and I know I could just not go, or go and just wait standby.  But I'm not the only one going on this trip and I AM the one they count on to figure this stuff out and to make the trip "magical."  If Genie can make me obsolete I'd be happy, but the chances are that I'm the one who is going to have to be staring at her phone all day, and investing in backup batteries, because my 70 year old parents don't even have smart phones and I try to have a no-phones out on vacation with my 13 year old b/c it's supposed to be our time to interact with each other and not friends from home.


----------



## elgerber

Figment1990 said:


> Even if it's a a 50/50 chance we will get a 2nd ILL that we want, it still makes planning more anxiety-ridden.  For example,  if (and I'm still deciding if I want to pay for any of this), I plan a park hopping day and I am willing to pay to ride RotR  and Remy, it would be much better for me to know at 7am if I'm going to be hopping to Epcot for Remy.


This is my concern.  I buy ILL for Remy but I also want it for FEA. If I can only get one at first, do I risk FEA?  Do I rope drop it to be safe, then maybe no point in purchasing?


----------



## Sjm9911

Im thinking the price for the a la cart rides will fluctuate throught the day depending on demand, so if thats true they will want you to book them one at a time. This is the only way i can see them leading people to lesser crowded areas of the park. Or to say it another way, controlling the crowds. Thats the whole intent of this genie thing, besides making money, right?  But hey, what do i know.


----------



## luv2cheer92

Thumper99 said:


> Could you switch MB if we wanted?  For example my DD and I dont like roller coasters. So could DH and son use our MB to ride a ride twice by putting on our MB to ride the second time using our “ slots”?


We did this all the time with FP+. I don't see why you couldn't, but I guess we will see.


----------



## PaladinButters

elgerber said:


> Exactly!!!! and if we can get shut out of the 2nd one easily, I agree, that's just dumb. Then the only option is standby. If they want our $$$, which we know they do, let us buy both rides at 7 am.


Well they don't want *your* money, they just want *the* money.  Being shut out means they sold out which is good for them either way.


----------



## gharter

elgerber said:


> Exactly!!!! and if we can get shut out of the 2nd one easily, I agree, that's just dumb.  Then the only option is standby.  If they want our $$$, which we know they do, let us buy both rides at 7 am.


As I understand it, if you purchased 2 paid LL, you cannot get your money back if you change your mind. So if you were park hopping and change your mind, you can't change the paid LL, its just lost.


----------



## elgerber

gharter said:


> As I understand it, if you purchased 2 paid LL, you cannot get your money back if you change your mind. So if you were park hopping and change your mind, you can't change the paid LL, its just lost.


I'm not looking to change my mind or refund, I just want to be able to plan my rope drop by knowing if I can purchase both right away.


----------



## Tom_E_D

Sjm9911 said:


> Im thinking the price for the a la cart rides will fluctuate throught the day depending on demand, so if thats true they will want you to book them one at a time. This is the only way i can see them leading people to lesser crowded areas of the park. Or to say it another way, controlling the crowds. Thats the whole intent of this genie thing, besides making money, right?  But hey, what do i know.


Based on the examples given at the media event, prices fluctuate by the day but apparently not during the day. Here's a quote: "The opening day Individual Lightning Lane prices that have been released thus far are as follows: Expedition Everest will be $7 per guest on Tuesday, October 19th, and $7 on Saturday, October 23rd. Seven Dwarfs Mine Train in the Magic Kingdom will be $10 per guest on October 19th, and $12 on Saturday the 23rd. Remy’s Ratatouille Adventure will be $9 per guest on Tuesday the 19th, and $11 on Saturday the 23rd. And _Star Wars_: Rise of the Resistance will be $15 per guest on both October 19th and October 23rd. It’s important to remember that the prices for the Individual Lightning Lane Entrance attractions will vary according to attraction and date, as we’ve seen in the prices we’ve been given." Here's the source of that quote. I've seen basically the same cited elsewhere.


----------



## DavidNYC

CWTC said:


> Agreed.  I’d much rather buy them both and then be able to plan the rest of the day around it.


YOU want to plan your own day?!?!??  No no no . . . that is not allowed anymore.   You're on Disney's timetable if you don't want to ride standby all day!   : )  (How anyone can still stay all of this increases your flexibility mind-boggles me).


----------



## Thumper99

So I’m confused about the individual attraction selections. You have to but then the Day Of right? So there are only 8 rides in total to choose from. So I want Remy and ROTR. So I have a park ressie for HS first. So I believe I will be able to,at 7am, go into the app and buy an available time slot for ROTR. It will be a purchase with a time available and cost and check out. Right?  I’m not going to have to buy the option of IA$ first to even look at available times right?
And when will I be able to buy Epcot Remy?  Ugh!!!!!
This is so confusing. We will be there on the 24th so at least 5 days after launch but this is going to be crazy to try and navigate through in the beginning. I’m praying someone will video their experience so we can get a feel for how it works.


----------



## Bibbobboo2u

Molly's video (from AllEars.net) was very good.  She did mention a few things that they learned during the recent media presentation, which have not been disclosed on the website yet.  She said that you can modify or delete Genie+ LL selections (not talking about ILL$), and she used the example that if you walk up to your LL ride and it only has a 5 minute standby wait, you can cancel or modify that LL choice and just do standby.  I don't know if you will actually get better choices for another LL by doing this or if you would get the same options if you just go ahead and tap in for that LL ride and then make your next selection as usual.  I have a suspicion the system is going to cap the number of LL rides you can do in a park each day, so maybe deleting one that has a short standby during your return time would be better???  Molly also said that LL options can run out, just like FP did, which I feel puts pressure on you to select your faves quickly and to not wait until the "next available time" is closer to when you actually want to ride (looking at you SDD at night!)  So much unknown for this genie-pig!


----------



## Disturbia

even if Genie+ is a next available, I can still choose say Big Thunder at 11 am, if that’s what’s available or just choose Little Mermaid and not ride it (if next available is 9-10 and I will be there after 10)


----------



## Turksmom

Disturbia said:


> even if Genie+ is a next available, I can still choose say Big Thunder at 11 am, if that’s what’s available or just choose Little Mermaid and not ride it (if next available is 9-10 and I will be there after 10)


How would the strategy of selecting and not riding be helpful?


----------



## Thumper99

Bibbobboo2u said:


> Molly's video (from AllEars.net) was very good.  She did mention a few things that they learned during the recent media presentation, which have not been disclosed on the website yet.  She said that you can modify or delete Genie+ LL selections (not talking about ILL$), and she used the example that if you walk up to your LL ride and it only has a 5 minute standby wait, you can cancel or modify that LL choice and just do standby.  I don't know if you will actually get better choices for another LL by doing this or if you would get the same options if you just go ahead and tap in for that LL ride and then make your next selection as usual.  I have a suspicion the system is going to cap the number of LL rides you can do in a park each day, so maybe deleting one that has a short standby during your return time would be better???  Molly also said that LL options can run out, just like FP did, which I feel puts pressure on you to select your faves quickly and to not wait until the "next available time" is closer to when you actually want to ride (looking at you SDD at night!)  So much unknown for this genie-pig!


I think the benefit of not “ tapping in” is that if you do standby then you could possibly do the ride twice by picking a later LL through Genie +. Unless they somehow see you went through as a standby but that would be too creepy !!!


----------



## Bibbobboo2u

Disturbia said:


> even if Genie+ is a next available, I can still choose say Big Thunder at 11 am, if that’s what’s available or just choose Little Mermaid and not ride it (if next available is 9-10 and I will be there after 10)


My only concern is that the system may operate to cap the number of rides you can do thru G+LL each day, in which case you would not want to book throw-aways.  Disney will never disclose this though if it is the case, but there have to be limits due to ride capacity limits and balance between G+LL and standby they will try to achieve.  So much unknown...


----------



## Bibbobboo2u

Thumper99 said:


> I think the benefit of not “ tapping in” is that if you do standby then you could possibly do the ride twice by picking a later LL through Genie +. Unless they somehow see you went through as a standby but that would be too creepy !!!


That would be the benefit, and I don't think they want to prevent re-riding.  They just want to limit G+LL to once per ride per day.  We should still be able to go through standby on same rides as many times as we want.


----------



## Disturbia

Turksmom said:


> How would the strategy of selecting and not riding be helpful?


I can modify it, instead of having to go through selection screen when things are crashing.  I’m thinking of ADRs and FP+  But maybe I’m at a disadvantage if I arrive right at 10 and it locks me out of getting a pass because of the other one (and we’re in a different side of the park so can’t just hop in and ride it).


----------



## Marionnette

Bibbobboo2u said:


> My only concern is that the system may operate to cap the number of rides you can do thru G+LL each day, in which case you would not want to book throw-aways.  Disney will never disclose this though if it is the case, but there have to be limits due to ride capacity limits and balance between G+LL and standby they will try to achieve.  So much unknown...


I think that for most of the parks the limits on any individual guest will be a function of the once-per-attraction rule for Genie+. Aside from MK, which has 17 Genie+ attractions, there won't be a need to apply a cap on the number a guest can use. Epcot has 10 if you count both green and orange MS as separate attractions. HS has 12 (many of which are stage shows). And AK has 8, including FotLK, FFiF, and the Animation Experience.

DLR may be a different story given that there are considerably more attractions between DL and DCA.


----------



## LSUfan4444

katyringo said:


> yes what this system is- is a in real Time system. You are right. If you aren't rope dropping then you won't have a reason to book at 7am. At 7am return times are going to be for the first hour the park is open. You are correct you will want to watch the times for when you think you will get into the parks.
> If I can offer reassurance tho- this is exactly how maxpass worked and I never felt like I couldn't enjoy my mornings we weren't rope dropping.  It also mean that while we were at breakfast or whatever - that I could start stacking them for when we would be in the park.  The same strategy works for mid day breaks.


So, referring back to maxpass....if you waited until you got into the park what would the "normal" expected return time befor something like space mnt?


----------



## katyringo

LSUfan4444 said:


> So, referring back to maxpass....if you waited until you got into the park what would the "normal" expected return time befor something like space mnt?



many trips we entered the park in early afternoon and could still get FP for all the most popular rides for in the evening...


----------



## LSUfan4444

> The question seems to remain as to _when _you can book the 2nd attraction - whether that is at 7am, after the first is used, or after you arrive at the second park.



Am I losing my mind or did I read it was two hours after you made the first ILL reservation OR tapped into the line for your first ILL selection?


----------



## katmu

Sorry if this has been asked already, but does anyone know if Genie+ and LL will have to be purchased for all members of my traveling party?  My son and I will be visiting in January.  I’m debating if it will be worth purchasing both knowing that there are some rides like FOP that I can’t ride due to limited range of motion in my right leg.  Thanks in advance.


----------



## persnickity

katmu said:


> Sorry if this has been asked already, but does anyone know if Genie+ and LL will have to be purchased for all members of my traveling party?  My son and I will be visiting in January.  I’m debating if it will be worth purchasing both knowing that there are some rides like FOP that I can’t ride due to limited range of motion in my right leg.  Thanks in advance.



I would sure hope you could purchase attractions or Genie+ for only a few people in your group (same as with dining reservations, boarding groups, or Fastpass selections).


----------



## MainMom

LSUfan4444 said:


> Am I losing my mind or did I read it was two hours after you made the first ILL reservation OR tapped into the line for your first ILL selection?


That’s for Genie+ rides not ILL$.


----------



## LSUfan4444

MainMom said:


> That’s for Genie+ rides not ILL$.


Thanks for clarifying.


----------



## Disturbia

They should have just increased the price of Genie+ by $5 and offered virtual queues for the most popular rides.  It’s just adding stress vs just getting to the park and riding whatever.

I would like to see a reserved fireworks viewing area.


----------



## Disturbia

LSUfan4444 said:


> Thanks for clarifying.


Genie+ you can get the next ride once you tapped in to your first ride from what I read


----------



## Disturbia

I would think rider switch will be like the virtual queue, so everyone 3 and up (with tickets) has to get one if they are all riding (even the waiting parent/grandparents etc), now one kid only gets to go with the waiting parent again.


----------



## Figment1990

Here's one of my new planning challenges, thanks to G+/ILL$.

We land at 12:25 on the first day of our trip.  Anticipating the shorter stand-by lines that we've seen without FP, or with a return of normal 60+ day FP, I had planned for us to go to DHS for the evening.  DS really wants to ride RnRC and then we will do whatever else we can.  In the past, to maximize time, I would have booked evening FP+ and felt comfortable, relaxed and excited with this start to our vacation.  Now, I feel like who knows what things will look like or if there's any way to get off to a similar relaxed start.  On a short day like that, I would have even paid $15 (or more) per person for 3 fastpasses booked in advance.  But will I pay $15 pp for the *potential *to get more than one LL?  I know I most likely won't be able to use any of the "next available" times if I get G+ at 7am (side question: If I'm checked into my hotel, but not on property yet, will I be given 7am perks?)  So now, I have to sit and refresh, looking for when the next available time makes sense for our arrival and then decide if I want to gamble with that $45 and hope there would be at least one or two other LLs available after we use that. I suppose clarification to the 120 minute rule will help, but I'm still looking at monitoring an app rather than relaxing. 

I really hope we get some fantastic reports out of how this system actually works for people.  But considering our trip is booked over the Thanksgiving holiday, I'm not feeling very hopeful that it will work for us.  The higher price points for the ILLs and the overall increase in crowds are seriously making us reconsider it.  I'm concerned the higher crowds will make us feel G+ is necessary and that is a significant and very real $ factor that could change our minds to reschedule this trip.  DS has already asked to switch to Universal, but we have WDW tickets purchased (which I'm considering switching to a later date if we cancel).


----------



## katyringo

You guys are right. A couple blogs I read said you would be able to make both your individual lightening lane selections at 7am but the Disney blog says one at a time up to 2... hummmmm...


----------



## DavidNYC

Marionnette said:


> I think that for most of the parks the limits on any individual guest will be a function of the once-per-attraction rule for Genie+. Aside from MK, which has 17 Genie+ attractions, there won't be a need to apply a cap on the number a guest can use. Epcot has 10 if you count both green and orange MS as separate attractions. HS has 12 (many of which are stage shows). And AK has 8, including FotLK, FFiF, and the Animation Experience.
> 
> DLR may be a different story given that there are considerably more attractions between DL and DCA.



And again - another element of this new system which causes guests to have to gamble with their day.  Do I get the pass for 10am even though it's likely to have a low wait or do I wait since I'd prefer to ride it later even though I have no idea if I'll be able to get it?    This system caters to one type of person only - the person who really just doesn't care about what they do when and will just take what is offered to them.  Everyone else . . . not so much.  And for those who actually try to plan around things like afternoon breaks or meals or late arrivals - massive increase in stress.



Figment1990 said:


> Here's one of my new planning challenges, thanks to G+/ILL$.
> 
> We land at 12:25 on the first day of our trip.  Anticipating the shorter stand-by lines that we've seen without FP, or with a return of normal 60+ day FP, I had planned for us to go to DHS for the evening.  DS really wants to ride RnRC and then we will do whatever else we can.  In the past, to maximize time, I would have booked evening FP+ and felt comfortable, relaxed and excited with this start to our vacation.  Now, I feel like who knows what things will look like or if there's any way to get off to a similar relaxed start.  On a short day like that, I would have even paid $15 (or more) per person for 3 fastpasses booked in advance.  But will I pay $15 pp for the *potential *to get more than one LL?  I know I most likely won't be able to use any of the "next available" times if I get G+ at 7am (side question: If I'm checked into my hotel, but not on property yet, will I be given 7am perks?)  So now, I have to sit and refresh, looking for when the next available time makes sense for our arrival and then decide if I want to gamble with that $45 and hope there would be at least one or two other LLs available after we use that. I suppose clarification to the 120 minute rule will help, but I'm still looking at monitoring an app rather than relaxing.
> 
> I really hope we get some fantastic reports out of how this system actually works for people.  But considering our trip is booked over the Thanksgiving holiday, I'm not feeling very hopeful that it will work for us.  The higher price points for the ILLs and the overall increase in crowds are seriously making us reconsider it.  I'm concerned the higher crowds will make us feel G+ is necessary and that is a significant and very real $ factor that could change our minds to reschedule this trip.  DS has already asked to switch to Universal, but we have WDW tickets purchased (which I'm considering switching to a later date if we cancel).



Exactly - such an obvious flaw of the system compared to the prior one and a perfect example of how Disney doesn't care about guest convenience any more, it's all about the money even when it majorly disadvantages huge numbers of guests.  If this were a first system a park was introducing you'd look at it and say "it's not perfect but it offers some advantages".  But when it replaces a system that provided far more flexibility to guests who may have different schedules - it shows a complete contempt for them.  You will ride what Disney wants you to ride or you will pay extra either in terms of time or money.  My guess has been this will be fine for early risers and rope droppers planning to spend an entire day at the parks who don't care when they ride things and be horrible for anyone who wants some semblance of control.  (And even for the first group - it will likely involve far more time in lines than previously).


----------



## Disturbia

katyringo said:


> You guys are right. A couple blogs I read said you would be able to make both your individual lightening lane selections at 7am but the Disney blog says one at a time up to 2... hummmmm...


I’m reading this to mean you can’t have 2 booked for the same hour


----------



## Disturbia

Figment1990 said:


> Here's one of my new planning challenges, thanks to G+/ILL$.
> 
> We land at 12:25 on the first day of our trip.  Anticipating the shorter stand-by lines that we've seen without FP, or with a return of normal 60+ day FP, I had planned for us to go to DHS for the evening.  DS really wants to ride RnRC and then we will do whatever else we can.  In the past, to maximize time, I would have booked evening FP+ and felt comfortable, relaxed and excited with this start to our vacation.  Now, I feel like who knows what things will look like or if there's any way to get off to a similar relaxed start.  On a short day like that, I would have even paid $15 (or more) per person for 3 fastpasses booked in advance.  But will I pay $15 pp for the *potential *to get more than one LL?  I know I most likely won't be able to use any of the "next available" times if I get G+ at 7am (side question: If I'm checked into my hotel, but not on property yet, will I be given 7am perks?)  So now, I have to sit and refresh, looking for when the next available time makes sense for our arrival and then decide if I want to gamble with that $45 and hope there would be at least one or two other LLs available after we use that. I suppose clarification to the 120 minute rule will help, but I'm still looking at monitoring an app rather than relaxing.
> 
> I really hope we get some fantastic reports out of how this system actually works for people.  But considering our trip is booked over the Thanksgiving holiday, I'm not feeling very hopeful that it will work for us.  The higher price points for the ILLs and the overall increase in crowds are seriously making us reconsider it.  I'm concerned the higher crowds will make us feel G+ is necessary and that is a significant and very real $ factor that could change our minds to reschedule this trip.  DS has already asked to switch to Universal, but we have WDW tickets purchased (which I'm considering switching to a later date if we cancel).


We are planning to buy Remy on the day we check in so we have to wake up and book it before we travel to catch our flight.  We have Epcot so worse case senerio we will just eat at F&W and ride Nemo and Living with the land.  Genie+ wouldn’t make sense for us this day


----------



## ssusca

forgive me if this has been addressed previously.  So Disney Genie+ is going to be available starting on 10/19.  Will the old fast pass system be available up until then or is it gone now.  I can't seem to find it in my app and we are going there this weekend.


----------



## MrBellatrixLestrange

ssusca said:


> forgive me if this has been addressed previously.  So Disney Genie+ is going to be available starting on 10/19.  Will the old fast pass system be available up until then or is it gone now.  I can't seem to find it in my app and we are going there this weekend.


I'm pretty sure that was shut down for COVID and has never come back.


----------



## SkyGuy

ssusca said:


> forgive me if this has been addressed previously.  So Disney Genie+ is going to be available starting on 10/19.  Will the old fast pass system be available up until then or is it gone now.  I can't seem to find it in my app and we are going there this weekend.


It’s gone. Everything is standby only except for Remy which is virtual queue only.


----------



## Figment1990

Disturbia said:


> We are planning to buy Remy on the day we check in so we have to wake up and book it before we travel to catch our flight.  We have Epcot so worse case senerio we will just eat at F&W and ride Nemo and Living with the land.  Genie+ wouldn’t make sense for us this day


This is a good strategy.  I might have to consider that as a plan.


----------



## Disturbia

Disturbia said:


> We are planning to buy Remy on the day we check in so we have to wake up and book it before we travel to catch our flight.  We have Epcot so worse case senerio we will just eat at F&W and ride Nemo and Living with the land.





DavidNYC said:


> And again - another element of this new system which causes guests to have to gamble with their day.  Do I get the pass for 10am even though it's likely to have a low wait or do I wait since I'd prefer to ride it later even though I have no idea if I'll be able to get it?    This system caters to one type of person only - the person who really just doesn't care about what they do when and will just take what is offered to them.  Everyone else . . . not so much.  And for those who actually try to plan around things like afternoon breaks or meals or late arrivals - massive increase in stress.
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly - such an obvious flaw of the system compared to the prior one and a perfect example of how Disney doesn't care about guest convenience any more, it's all about the money even when it majorly disadvantages huge numbers of guests.  If this were a first system a park was introducing you'd look at it and say "it's not perfect but it offers some advantages".  But when it replaces a system that provided far more flexibility to guests who may have different schedules - it shows a complete contempt for them.  You will ride what Disney wants you to ride or you will pay extra either in terms of time or money.  My guess has been this will be fine for early risers and rope droppers planning to spend an entire day at the parks who don't care when they ride things and be horrible for anyone who wants some semblance of control.  (And even for the first group - it will likely involve far more time in lines than previously).


and I think the do whatever whenever crowd is what Disney wants to cater to as they are more impulsive.  The family crowds (like us) are probably going to be more frustrated with this. 

But I also see the benefit.  It’s hard for parents with small children to constantly look at the phone, but it’s harder to wait in a 45-60 min line (all rides even small world and Winnie the Pooh were like that on June).


----------



## snikki

Figment1990 said:


> Here's one of my new planning challenges, thanks to G+/ILL$.
> 
> We land at 12:25 on the first day of our trip.  Anticipating the shorter stand-by lines that we've seen without FP, or with a return of normal 60+ day FP, I had planned for us to go to DHS for the evening.  DS really wants to ride RnRC and then we will do whatever else we can.  In the past, to maximize time, I would have booked evening FP+ and felt comfortable, relaxed and excited with this start to our vacation.  Now, I feel like who knows what things will look like or if there's any way to get off to a similar relaxed start.  On a short day like that, I would have even paid $15 (or more) per person for 3 fastpasses booked in advance.  But will I pay $15 pp for the *potential *to get more than one LL?  I know I most likely won't be able to use any of the "next available" times if I get G+ at 7am (side question: If I'm checked into my hotel, but not on property yet, will I be given 7am perks?)  So now, I have to sit and refresh, looking for when the next available time makes sense for our arrival and then decide if I want to gamble with that $45 and hope there would be at least one or two other LLs available after we use that. I suppose clarification to the 120 minute rule will help, but I'm still looking at monitoring an app rather than relaxing.
> 
> I really hope we get some fantastic reports out of how this system actually works for people.  But considering our trip is booked over the Thanksgiving holiday, I'm not feeling very hopeful that it will work for us.  The higher price points for the ILLs and the overall increase in crowds are seriously making us reconsider it.  I'm concerned the higher crowds will make us feel G+ is necessary and that is a significant and very real $ factor that could change our minds to reschedule this trip.  DS has already asked to switch to Universal, but we have WDW tickets purchased (which I'm considering switching to a later date if we cancel).



We aren’t going until late next year but we’ve always hit a park on arrival day since FP+ was released. It’s cheap to add on the ticket and you are guaranteed 3 rides. Next trip we don’t know if we will do that due to this change. We plan on flying in around noon instead of our usual 6 am flight and landing by 8 am so it’ll be a later start for LL. I don’t want to risk buying G+ In the morning and only getting on. Unless the system allows you to see what’s available before you buy it and I can decide to purchase it once we are in the park.


----------



## snikki

Disturbia said:


> We are planning to buy Remy on the day we check in so we have to wake up and book it before we travel to catch our flight.  We have Epcot so worse case senerio we will just eat at F&W and ride Nemo and Living with the land.  Genie+ wouldn’t make sense for us this day



What worries me with this is flight delays or any other issues. It’s the same reason we don’t book prepaid shows for arrival day. Although I did book a dessert party once on arrival day but I was nervous about it.

You have given me a new idea now. It would make sense for us to do DHS and buy ROTR and MMRR. We haven’t been since these opened. Then maybe hop to MK for the nighttime show. Hmmmm.


----------



## JoJoGirl

So my flight down in December is scheduled to depart at 7:10 am.  Maybe I’ll get lucky and have a short flight delay so I can pick up an ILL$ before takeoff.  It could happen!


----------



## CarolynFH

michaeldorn1 said:


> I apologize if this has already been answered:  Does anyone know if Disney Gift Cards can be added to MDE as a form of payment ( which can then pay for Genie+ and IA$ ) or will it only allow a credit/debit card or both?  Thanks for the info!


As a previous poster said, you can't add the GC number to MDE, you have to input it every time.  However, you can save the GC number as a note on your phone (or text it to yourself) so that you can simply copy and paste it each time as opposed to entering each digit every time you use it.  Works for mobile ordering at QS as well.


----------



## Jonfw2

Here's a question that I think could become very relevant when I dream of Genie...

After the initial introductions of MaxPass and FastPass+, how much modification was done?  How many details changed- especially early on- to refine the programs once the real experience of them was known?


----------



## fabfemmeboy

Disturbia said:


> and I think the do whatever whenever crowd is what Disney wants to cater to as they are more impulsive.  The family crowds (like us) are probably going to be more frustrated with this.
> 
> But I also see the benefit.  It’s hard for parents with small children to constantly look at the phone, but it’s harder to wait in a 45-60 min line (all rides even small world and Winnie the Pooh were like that on June).



I agree, but this is worse for the "do whatever, whenever" crowd.  I should know - that's what we are!  Between having to choose what park we'll want to go to several months in advance, then needing to get up at 7 am _on our vacation _to pick out our first ride when we don't even know when we'll mosey into the park yet, to having to zigzag across the park based on what times Genie+ wants to throw us, having to decide when we want to burn our one and only expedited line for a particular attraction...no thanks.  I much prefer the Maxpass/FP- option of seeing what ride time was available and just...grabbing it or not.  If it was far enough in advance, it would stack (mostly for WOC and sometimes RSR).  If not, if I thought we might hop to the other park before then, if I would rather just brave the standby line, then I'd grab something else.  No waking up 3 hours before the park opens to frantically fight with my phone on a lousy network, no being locked into a FP before we're even in the park, no picking where we'll be from open-until-2 months in advance.  And no limit of only one FP per ride no matter how long the FPs last for that attraction!


----------



## fabfemmeboy

Jonfw2 said:


> Here's a question that I think could become very relevant when I dream of Genie...
> 
> After the initial introductions of MaxPass and FastPass+, how much modification was done?  How many details changed- especially early on- to refine the programs once the real experience of them was known?



I know FP+ changed several times, especially with regards to the tiers and how/whether you could pull a 4th pass later in the day.

I don't recall many - if any - changes to MaxPass when it came out.  Really they were just trying to replicate and digitize the FP- experience at the time, so there were no tiers and the same rules were in place re: stacking as had already existed. The main FP change I remember at DL was when they finally linked the systems at both parks so you couldn't have an active FP at each park at the same time, but I don't remember if that predated MaxPass or not.  It may have been that MaxPass was linked and it took them a bit to connect it to paper FP and both paper FP systems to each other? Anyway.  It wasn't so much an active change as finally fixing an unintended flaw in the system.


----------



## DavidNYC

Disturbia said:


> But I also see the benefit. It’s hard for parents with small children to constantly look at the phone, but it’s harder to wait in a 45-60 min line (all rides even small world and Winnie the Pooh were like that on June).



Yes and no.  I agree with you it's harder to wait in a 45-60 minute line.  But whereas before parents with young children could say let's plan for 3-4 hours in the afternoon and do a handful of kids rides - now they'll spend their morning trying to time getting the first pass at a time they're planning to arrive and then get off, say, Small World and say "well - we can wait on a 45-60 minute line or we can get the lightning lane 3 hours from now when we were hoping to be heading back to the hotel with the kids.  And if we decide to stay until then - we now have 3 hours to fill with standby lines . . .  As I said - if this were a brand new system in a park that was previously all standby - you wouldn't feel this because you're in no worse shape than before even if you couldn't fully utilize it.  But this takes a significant portion of their guests and makes it far far worse for them while offering minor benefits to others (at an added cost).   I see no situation in which getting relieved of the stress of making plans for 3 rides 30-60 days out hasn't been replaced by far greater stress while you're in the park (unless you just don't care what and when you ride).


----------



## michaeldorn1

CarolynFH said:


> As a previous poster said, you can't add the GC number to MDE, you have to input it every time.  However, you can save the GC number as a note on your phone (or text it to yourself) so that you can simply copy and paste it each time as opposed to entering each digit every time you use it.  Works for mobile ordering at QS as well.


Great idea!!


----------



## Jrb1979

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1447654960724905992
Hope this answers some questions.


----------



## Disturbia

DavidNYC said:


> Yes and no.  I agree with you it's harder to wait in a 45-60 minute line.  But whereas before parents with young children could say let's plan for 3-4 hours in the afternoon and do a handful of kids rides - now they'll spend their morning trying to time getting the first pass at a time they're planning to arrive and then get off, say, Small World and say "well - we can wait on a 45-60 minute line or we can get the lightning lane 3 hours from now when we were hoping to be heading back to the hotel with the kids.  And if we decide to stay until then - we now have 3 hours to fill with standby lines . . .  As I said - if this were a brand new system in a park that was previously all standby - you wouldn't feel this because you're in no worse shape than before even if you couldn't fully utilize it.  But this takes a significant portion of their guests and makes it far far worse for them while offering minor benefits to others (at an added cost).   I see no situation in which getting relieved of the stress of making plans for 3 rides 30-60 days out hasn't been replaced by far greater stress while you're in the park (unless you just don't care what and when you ride).


I completely agree as we maximized fast pass plus and always had secured SDMT and FOP fast passes (5 of us) for the evening (came to the parks relaxed and took mid day breaks).  I loved fastpass+ because we didn’t need to do a lot, just what we loved.

however, we don’t have that choice now.


----------



## Disturbia

JoJoGirl said:


> So my flight down in December is scheduled to depart at 7:10 am.  Maybe I’ll get lucky and have a short flight delay so I can pick up an ILL$ before takeoff.  It could happen!


I’ve gotten ROTR while spinning on TSMM; so I’d say it’s possible; Good luck!


----------



## snikki

I can’t wait for the G+/LL/ILL faq thread. Bless the person who will run that.


----------



## JenSop

DavidNYC said:


> Exactly - such an obvious flaw of the system compared to the prior one and a perfect example of how Disney doesn't care about guest convenience any more, it's all about the money even when it majorly disadvantages huge numbers of guests. If this were a first system a park was introducing you'd look at it and say "it's not perfect but it offers some advantages". But when it replaces a system that provided far more flexibility to guests who may have different schedules - it shows a complete contempt for them. You will ride what Disney wants you to ride or you will pay extra either in terms of time or money. My guess has been this will be fine for early risers and rope droppers planning to spend an entire day at the parks who don't care when they ride things and be horrible for anyone who wants some semblance of control. (And even for the first group - it will likely involve far more time in lines than previously).



Exactly!  I do think this will work well for rope droppers and people who are in the parks all day.  
With FP+, most days we really would just ride our 3 afternoon fastpass rides. Do some shopping, have some snacks, MAYBE do one standby. But we're DVC, we don't feel the need to tour commando style. We never waited in long lines.
Okay, I've been going my whole life.  I knew what it was like with no fastpasses of any kind.  I also did the paper fastpasses for many years.  Fastpass+ was a total step up from ALL of those previous systems.  I feel like they're taking a HUGE step back and down with Genie+.


----------



## Disturbia

snikki said:


> What worries me with this is flight delays or any other issues. It’s the same reason we don’t book prepaid shows for arrival day. Although I did book a dessert party once on arrival day but I was nervous about it.
> 
> You have given me a new idea now. It would make sense for us to do DHS and buy ROTR and MMRR. We haven’t been since these opened. Then maybe hop to MK for the nighttime show. Hmmmm.



Our flight arrives after 3:30 pm and we hope to be in the parks at 6 pm.  We always do a relaxed evening/morning on travel days.  Keep an eye on hours; they just added an extra hour to MK on select days in Oct and AK had 1 extra hour added.


----------



## Disturbia

CarolynFH said:


> As a previous poster said, you can't add the GC number to MDE, you have to input it every time.  However, you can save the GC number as a note on your phone (or text it to yourself) so that you can simply copy and paste it each time as opposed to entering each digit every time you use it.  Works for mobile ordering at QS as well.


That’s a really good idea as scanning my credit card each purchase is so hard (MDE doesn’t save; sometimes app pulls it) and MDE logs me out and then sends a code to my email and it’s a nightmare.


----------



## Disturbia

I’m getting a message in the app saying that payment method is temporarily unavailable and to go to the website.  Sign of things to come I suppose.

I’m going to try to add a rewards card to my profile.


----------



## snikki

Disturbia said:


> Our flight arrives after 3:30 pm and we hope to be in the parks at 6 pm.  We always do a relaxed evening/morning on travel days.  Keep an eye on hours; they just added an extra hour to MK on select days in Oct and AK had 1 extra hour added.



The last few trips we’ve done the 6 am flight, landing around 8ish and been in the MK by 10-11 am and then stayed until closing. It’s fun but exhausting and makes us sluggish the next few days. Next trip we want a later flight, hopefully arriving around noon-1 pm and a more relaxing morning and evening. This has been our plan even before G+ was announced. Would’ve been nice to have 3 free FP+ but what can ya do. I think getting ILL at a park on arrival day and taking It easy will be much better for us.


----------



## CWTC

“Genie+ will not sell out on any given day”

so even on the busiest day of the year it will not sell out? What will availability be on those days in terms of LL?   Does everyone who pays 15$ get one LL?  It feels like if it never sells out then  Disney may be collecting money for a ride pass program that is not beneficial due to the volume of people buying it.


----------



## MainMom

JenSop said:


> Exactly!  I do think this will work well for rope droppers and people who are in the parks all day.
> With FP+, most days we really would just ride our 3 afternoon fastpass rides. Do some shopping, have some snacks, MAYBE do one standby. But we're DVC, we don't feel the need to tour commando style. We never waited in long lines.
> Okay, I've been going my whole life.  I knew what it was like with no fastpasses of any kind.  I also did the paper fastpasses for many years.  Fastpass+ was a total step up from ALL of those previous systems.  I feel like they're taking a HUGE step back and down with Genie+.


I’m a rope dropper. I’ll make it work, but it’s seeming like it’s going to be a pain in the butt. I’ll be relying heavily on others experiences before our trip next June so I can form some kind of strategy.


----------



## Jrb1979

CWTC said:


> “Genie+ will not sell out on any given day”
> 
> so even on the busiest day of the year it will not sell out? What will availability be on those days in terms of LL?   Does everyone who pays 15$ get one LL?  It feels like if it never sells out then  Disney may be collecting money for a ride pass program that is not beneficial due to the volume of people buying it.


With only being able to book 1 at a time most people will average 3 a day most likely. That's the amount most people got with FP+.


----------



## Jrb1979

MainMom said:


> I’m a rope dropper. I’ll make it work, but it’s seeming like it’s going to be a pain in the butt. I’ll be relying heavily on others experiences before our trip next June so I can form some kind of strategy.


I wouldn't be surprised to see the best way to get the most out of Genie+ is being ok with criss crossing the park a lot.


----------



## Grumpy by Birth

Jrb1979 said:


> Genie+ will not sell out on any given day





CWTC said:


> “Genie+ will not sell out on any given day”
> 
> so even on the busiest day of the year it will not sell out? What will availability be on those days in terms of LL?   Does everyone who pays 15$ get one LL?  It feels like if it never sells out then  Disney may be collecting money for a ride pass program that is not beneficial due to the volume of people buying it.


I noticed that bullet right away too.  Disney will sell to as many people who want to pay, so Genie+ will never be sold out.  But by not limiting the number of people who purchase on any given day, that dilutes the value because the ride capacity and number of attractions you'll be able to use the LL for will be far fewer than if they capped the number of G+ sold for the day.


----------



## MainMom

Jrb1979 said:


> I wouldn't be surprised to see the best way to get the most out of Genie+ is being ok with criss crossing the park a lot.


Yeah, that thought has crossed my mind and I really don’t want to do it with 3 little kids and my 60+ year old parents in June.


----------



## katyringo

fabfemmeboy said:


> I know FP+ changed several times, especially with regards to the tiers and how/whether you could pull a 4th pass later in the day.
> 
> I don't recall many - if any - changes to MaxPass when it came out.  Really they were just trying to replicate and digitize the FP- experience at the time, so there were no tiers and the same rules were in place re: stacking as had already existed. The main FP change I remember at DL was when they finally linked the systems at both parks so you couldn't have an active FP at each park at the same time, but I don't remember if that predated MaxPass or not.  It may have been that MaxPass was linked and it took them a bit to connect it to paper FP and both paper FP systems to each other? Anyway.  It wasn't so much an active change as finally fixing an unintended flaw in the system.



there were small tweeks to maxpass. The biggest one was the multi expirence pass. When a ride went down you got a pass that could be used on any fastpass ride.  This caused issues on really busy days because like if guardians went down then everyone would try to use their FP on cars and the FP line would become huge. So they did add some tiers later on that if guardians went down that pass was good everywhere Except cars...


----------



## gypsy_at_heart

Jrb1979 said:


> Hope this answers some questions.



I was happy to pay until the one lightning lane use per day per ride thing. Sorry, not paying that much if I can’t use it more than once per ride- that’s ridiculous


----------



## katyringo

I wouldn't worry too much about genie plus not being able to sell out.. everyone was given 3 free ones before regardless of how busy.


----------



## katyringo

MainMom said:


> Yeah, that thought has crossed my mind and I really don’t want to do it with 3 little kids and my 60+ year old parents in June.


This was deff the beat way to maximize maxpass.  You had had to be willing to move about the park.


----------



## DavidNYC

CWTC said:


> “Genie+ will not sell out on any given day”
> so even on the busiest day of the year it will not sell out? What will availability be on those days in terms of LL?   Does everyone who pays 15$ get one LL?  It feels like if it never sells out then  Disney may be collecting money for a ride pass program that is not beneficial due to the volume of people buying it.



Well - we've seen them sell annual passes in California and then close off admission to those AP holders while selling day tickets to others so clearly this is not a concern of theirs . . . I forsee



MainMom said:


> Yeah, that thought has crossed my mind and I really don’t want to do it with 3 little kids and my 60+ year old parents in June.


Yup - and that's how it was with the old FP system prior to the phones.  I see a lot more walking in people's days accross the park since you no longer have any ability to control your return times.  At least you don't have to go to the ride to get them but it's still far worse than before.



Jrb1979 said:


> With only being able to book 1 at a time most people will average 3 a day most likely. That's the amount most people got with FP+.


No way - you pre-booked 3.   You could easily get more during the day after you used your initial 3 (assuming you didn't start off booking them for the end of the day).



JenSop said:


> Okay, I've been going my whole life.  I knew what it was like with no fastpasses of any kind.  I also did the paper fastpasses for many years.  Fastpass+ was a total step up from ALL of those previous systems.  I feel like they're taking a HUGE step back and down with Genie+.


Same here - using your phone and being able to select your return time was a game changer both initially and for hopping.  It's a huge backwards step for the guests overall all in the name of Disney taking control of the park experience back from the individual to push them to spend more money.  And the marketing they do for this stuff now really just annoys me and reeks of disingenuity.  They know perfectly well what they're doing and why and just . . . lets say it . . lie to the guests about how much they're giving them while taking it away.  You just have to listen to Disney corporate and shareholder calls where they talk about all of the new revenue making opportunities they're putting in for each guest.  They add restrictions and talk about your new found ability to be spontaneous.  You don't see this with Universal.  They don't spit on your and tell you it's raining.  Their marketing is pretty straightforward and doesn't treat their customers like idiots who will believe anything they say.  It's more George Orwell than Disney.


----------



## Figment1990

katyringo said:


> I wouldn't worry too much about genie plus not being able to sell out.. everyone was given 3 free ones before regardless of how busy.


I don't understand this statement.  There were plenty of times that I could not get FP for several attractions even at my 60 day mark.  They definitely had a cap.  

I'm also confused by Disney saying Genie+ will not sell out.  I guess in THEORY, maybe their mathematical algorithms prove that they can raise the capacity of possible LL returns so that it is 99.9% unlikely that there will ever be ZERO LLs left for the day. For example, you can get a LL for the Carousel, or Nemo, or Indiana Jones Stunt show. But if they legit mean that G+ will be available throughout the day with reasonable offerings, that either means they assume: fewer people will use LL than used their FPs, or they plan to just leave it totally uncapped.  If the former, that's a bit of a gamble on predicting human behavior and I would LOVE to see those models and if the latter - that's ridiculous.  Then again, let's work backwards:

Goal: sell as many G+ as possible
Method: leave G+ uncapped which raises standby waits (as FP did), which increases G+ demand.

Wow.  I just can't wrap my head around this.  Oct 19 can't get here fast enough.


----------



## JakeAZ

I just wonder if the morons that came up with this whole system have thought about how this will be received in the real world and the world of social media.

Screenshot of IA$ pass "Just paid $100 for my family of 4 to ride ROTR"
Screenshots of CC statements showing all the Genie+ and IA$ purchases "Here's what's not included with your park tickets"
Tweets of "Just paid $100 for a 3 minute ride, on top of my $400 family of 4 admission tickets and now the Genie is offering me a chance to do that again"

When you package everything together, the valuation is based on the entire experience.  Basically, "did you have fun?"

When you make everything an extra cost, each requiring a separate thought process on whether or not to purchase and again to determine if that purchase, in a vacuum, was worth it, you're going to end up with lots of micro valuations.

I could see "ya, we had fun, but it required a lot of work and a lot of extra charges" or "the fun we had wasn't worth the effort and extra money required"


----------



## friendoffigment

If I purchase the Genie + for $15 does that mean i am only entitled to pick 2 attractions per day or can I pick more as the day goes on.


----------



## Turksmom

Genie+ can be used once for each included attraction in the park(subject to availability). The limit of 2 applies to the individually priced top tier attractions- ILL$


----------



## MrBellatrixLestrange

You can pick another attraction when you check in to your existing attraction, as Turksmom indicated the 2 attraction limitation is on the individually priced rides that are two to each park.  I don't know if there are any other stipulations, such as the ability to add another after 2 hours if your existing selection still isn't up that I've seen mentioned, though.


----------



## Thumper99

Also another thing on the TA training today stated that nobody will be able to add genie plus until the 19th. So guests should be prepared to buy single days if they are scheduled to be in the park those days. In other words travel agents (and anybody) don’t have the ability to add it to upcoming stays until after the 19th. So for the poster who was concerned that Disney hasn’t let those who have upcoming trips know when we can purchase the Genie+ Just know we will be able to buy it in the MDE app on that day starting at midnight.


----------



## luv2cheer92

Jonfw2 said:


> Here's a question that I think could become very relevant when I dream of Genie...
> 
> After the initial introductions of MaxPass and FastPass+, how much modification was done?  How many details changed- especially early on- to refine the programs once the real experience of them was known?


There were quite a few changes with FP+. Initially you could only get 3, that was it, there was no getting more after those 3. Then you could, but you had to use the kiosks in the parks. Then they added the option to add 4th+ on your phone. There were lots of changes to intricacies as far as different loopholes that had been established. Then they added in the different tiers and changes to the different tiers. It's definitely fair to expect changes to occur with Genie+


----------



## Orsino

Figment1990 said:


> I'm also confused by Disney saying Genie+ will not sell out.



Simple: LL availability might go to zero, but Genie+ will always be available. In otherwords, Disney will be happy to sell you Genie+ even if it is useless.


----------



## Tiggerontheseas

Orsino said:


> Simple: LL availability might go to zero, but Genie+ will always be available. In otherwords, Disney will be happy to sell you Genie+ even if it is useless.



Exactly!  I am a little afaid of this happening although I admit it never became an issue for us with Maxpass..  My trip's park days begin Oct. 24th and I really am not sure what route to go.  For sure, I will only be adding Genie+ for specific days and not to every ticket. 

Has anyone been able to tell if you will be able to add Genie+ after entering a park or does it need to be beforehand?


----------



## Jrb1979

JakeAZ said:


> I just wonder if the morons that came up with this whole system have thought about how this will be received in the real world and the world of social media.
> 
> Screenshot of IA$ pass "Just paid $100 for my family of 4 to ride ROTR"
> Screenshots of CC statements showing all the Genie+ and IA$ purchases "Here's what's not included with your park tickets"
> Tweets of "Just paid $100 for a 3 minute ride, on top of my $400 family of 4 admission tickets and now the Genie is offering me a chance to do that again"
> 
> When you package everything together, the valuation is based on the entire experience.  Basically, "did you have fun?"
> 
> When you make everything an extra cost, each requiring a separate thought process on whether or not to purchase and again to determine if that purchase, in a vacuum, was worth it, you're going to end up with lots of micro valuations.
> 
> I could see "ya, we had fun, but it required a lot of work and a lot of extra charges" or "the fun we had wasn't worth the effort and extra money required"


I Iove Genie+. Getting rid of advanced booking and that less people buying it should hopefully make availability good.


----------



## AZMermaid

Did they address late park openings? Like for EPCOT? Can on-site guests get 3 passes queued up before official opening (one at 7, one at 9, one at 11)?


----------



## CWTC

AZMermaid said:


> Did they address late park openings? Like for EPCOT? Can on-site guests get 3 passes queued up before official opening (one at 7, one at 9, one at 11)?


I’ve not seen anything in writing about stacking and verbiage in MDE explicitly references one at a time.


----------



## Ariel620

AZMermaid said:


> Did they address late park openings? Like for EPCOT? Can on-site guests get 3 passes queued up before official opening (one at 7, one at 9, one at 11)?



It just says 7am, so it seems that yes, you would be able to have 3 lined up for EP openings at 11am!

I am onboard with buying it for MK and HS, and not for AK, but I am a bit undecided for EP, but this makes it tempting.

Like RD Frozen, Nemo, TurtTalk, aquarium, Figment, LWTL, then bang out 3 prebooked G+ (Soarin, SE, TT, in that order), by then it should be time to book the next one (MS probably).  Soarin might need to be riden before some in my RD order depending on the time it is booked for.  Hope for VQ for Remy!

Ok, I like it, I think I will buy it for EP too.  Not for AK though.


----------



## Disturbia

If there is no limit on Genie+ then the impact on standby might be bigger.


----------



## Ariel620

CWTC said:


> I’ve not seen anything in writing about stacking and verbiage in MDE explicitly references one at a time.



The stacking was confirmed by Disney in one of the Q&A sessions with media or TA.  But it did come from Disney in a language something like...  You can book your second with G+ after you tap into the attraction OR 120 min after you booked the first one.  So if you book your first at 7am, you can book your second at 9am even if you haven't used your first.  So the speculation would be on the third.  I think it is only assumed at this point that it is EVERY 120 min, so the third could be booked at 11 even if you haven't used any.

I don't have a source since it was from one of the Q&A, but it is confirmed by Disney.


----------



## katyringo

CWTC said:


> I’ve not seen anything in writing about stacking and verbiage in MDE explicitly references one at a time.



it says if it is more than 120minutes away you can make another selection 120 minutes later.. so for Epcot when it doesn't open until 11 you would make your first selection at 7am and probably get a 11-12 return time, then at 9 am
You would be able to make another selection. And you may get a 12-1 return time. Then at 11 you could make another selection and maybe get a 1-2pm return time. You enter the park at rope drop already having 3 lightening lane passes stacked up and can make another selection at 1pm.


----------



## seanholmes2

What is the Genie?


----------



## MMSM

Jrb1979 said:


> With only being able to book 1 at a time most people will average 3 a day most likely. That's the amount most people got with FP+.


I thought you only got two LL per day.


----------



## FCDub

JoJoGirl said:


> So my flight down in December is scheduled to depart at 7:10 am.  Maybe I’ll get lucky and have a short flight delay so I can pick up an ILL$ before takeoff.  It could happen!



You can use your phone up until you're physically in the air. I send texts until my signal goes out all the time.


----------



## AndreaA

Ariel620 said:


> The stacking was confirmed by Disney in one of the Q&A sessions with media or TA.  But it did come from Disney in a language something like...  You can book your second with G+ after you tap into the attraction OR 120 min after you booked the first one.  So if you book your first at 7am, you can book your second at 9am even if you haven't used your first.  So the speculation would be on the third.  I think it is only assumed at this point that it is EVERY 120 min, so the third could be booked at 11 even if you haven't used any.
> 
> I don't have a source since it was from one of the Q&A, but it is confirmed by Disney.



Every single thing I’ve read has said that you can only have ONE attraction time booked at a time.  Period.  No getting another 120min out while you still have one booked for 5pm.  I wouldn’t trust one Q&A over multiple written sources from Disney.


----------



## Turksmom

MMSM said:


> I thought you only got two LL per day.


There is a max of 2 of the individually priced top tier attractions. With the lower ones, you can get one for each ride per day, as long as they are available


----------



## AndreaA

MMSM said:


> I thought you only got two LL per day.



You get 2 paidLL (which are only for a few attractions, not all) but you can get as many Genie+ LL as you can get... so if you get one for 8:30am, ride it and get another for 9am, another for 10am, etc., you could conceivably get tons.  However, if everyone else is doing the same thing...


----------



## Tom_E_D

MMSM said:


> I thought you only got two LL per day.


You can only get two Individual Lightning Lane Selections per day, but you can get a larger number of Genie+ passes. The number is uncertain, but probably at least one per hour.

Edit: subject to the limit of one for each available eligible ride.


----------



## Turksmom

AndreaA said:


> You get 2 paidLL (which are only for a few attractions, not all) but you can get as many Genie+ LL as you can get... so if you get one for 8:30am, ride it and get another for 9am, another for 10am, etc., you could conceivably get tons.  However, if everyone else is doing the same thing...


Well "tons" up to the number of G+ attractions in a park (or parks, if you hop)


----------



## AndreaA

I think this is going to fundamentally change touring for a lot of people.  When you cannot book something for the evening without giving up booking anything else all day, there is more of a chance that people will book as they go and availability for all rides in the evening will actually last much longer.

On the other hand, those who enjoy sleeping in, can wake at 7am and book a time for something at 1pm, so I think that availability for afternoon may decrease.


----------



## JakeAZ

Jrb1979 said:


> I Iove Genie+. Getting rid of advanced booking and that less people buying it should hopefully make availability good.


Oh, I'll buy it, but only because I see it as a severe disadvantage if I don't.  I view it as insurance for the money I've already spent.

But I stand by it being a terrible concept.  Two systems; one for the main rides and one for the premier rides is a short-sighted mistake.  It also makes things confusing for the non-disney message board visitor.  People don't come back to places they find expensive and confusing.  One or the other, maybe...but, both?



AndreaA said:


> Every single thing I’ve read has said that you can only have ONE attraction time booked at a time. Period. No getting another 120min out while you still have one booked for 5pm. I wouldn’t trust one Q&A over multiple written sources from Disney.


This has been confirmed by Disney.  120 min cool off period.


----------



## katyringo

JakeAZ said:


> Oh, I'll buy it, but only because I see it as a severe disadvantage if I don't.  I view it as insurance for the money I've already spent.
> 
> But I stand by it being a terrible concept.  Two systems; one for the main rides and one for the premier rides is a short-sighted mistake.  It also makes things confusing for the non-disney message board visitor.  People don't come back to places they find expensive and confusing.  One or the other, maybe...but, both?
> 
> 
> This has been confirmed by Disney.  120 min cool off period.



i think when Disney says one at a time it doesn't mean you can't hold more than one at a time. It literally means you can only book one at a time.  With fastpass plus you go on at your 60 days could make 3 per park for different times. They are trying to say you can't get on and book your entire day.  

you can hold more than one at time-
You just have to wait that 120 minutes between if your first selection is further away then 120minutes. If it's before 120minutes you have to use it first.


----------



## Foreveraprincess17

2 Questions on Genie+:
For the 2 paid LL.  Each has to be be booked 120 minutes apart like the Genie+??
Can you make a reservation both for a paid LL and a Genie+ LL at 7 AM?

Just a side note.  This whole new Genie+ is stressing me out.   I'm a night owl, we stay up late on vacation.  Getting up early to make a Genie+ reservation is not my cup of tea.  For a long time we have wanted to go to UO to do the Harry Potter rides.  We may do the Genie+ for a couple of days but certainly not for the whole trip.  I've been over reading everything I can on the Universal Boards.


----------



## nurseberta

Jrb1979 said:


> I wouldn't be surprised to see the best way to get the most out of Genie+ is being ok with criss crossing the park a lot.



I just came here to say this! I think what will happen is you will get a genie+ LL that is halfway across the park.... do you head that way or stay put and wait standby??? or will the system send you rides that are close to your location? can't imagine it would work that smoothly. I liked to plan my fast passes so that I could go land to land.


----------



## Zippa D Doodah

Turksmom said:


> Have any Genie-pigs received any info direct from Disney? I check in on the 17th, and have park reservations on the 18th and 19th and nothing from Disney. No email, no pop up notifications, no notes on the "my plans" section of MDE. I've been following along here and actively searching out info from other sources, but I can't believe they aren't reaching out to guests


We are staying off site. We are AP holders and have park ressies for 10/19-21. Crickets


----------



## LSUfan4444

Ariel620 said:


> I am onboard with buying it for MK and HS, and not for AK,



With Everest being in refurb in January, we arent even going to schedule a park day there sadly much less ILL or Genie+.  Maybe we will hop there but maybe not. Just enough enough for us there right now.


----------



## Disturbia

katyringo said:


> it says if it is more than 120minutes away you can make another selection 120 minutes later.. so for Epcot when it doesn't open until 11 you would make your first selection at 7am and probably get a 11-12 return time, then at 9 am
> You would be able to make another selection. And you may get a 12-1 return time. Then at 11 you could make another selection and maybe get a 1-2pm return time. You enter the park at rope drop already having 3 lightening lane passes stacked up and can make another selection at 1pm.


No way I can do/remember all this while juggling 3 kids; Genie should do this automatically after we select 8 rides


----------



## Disturbia

seanholmes2 said:


> What is the Genie?


It got released (from the bottle)..


----------



## Disturbia

nurseberta said:


> I just came here to say this! I think what will happen is you will get a genie+ LL that is halfway across the park.... do you head that way or stay put and wait standby??? or will the system send you rides that are close to your location? can't imagine it would work that smoothly. I liked to plan my fast passes so that I could go land to land.


You can tell genie - don’t you dare (Molly- allears)


----------



## canyoncam

AndreaA said:


> I think this is going to fundamentally change touring for a lot of people.  When you cannot book something for the evening without giving up booking anything else all day, there is more of a chance that people will book as they go and availability for all rides in the evening will actually last much longer.
> 
> On the other hand, those who enjoy sleeping in, can wake at 7am and book a time for something at 1pm, so I think that availability for afternoon may decrease.



I agree that people will book as they go BECAUSE you are only offered next available time. So therefore I don’t see it being practical for anyone to wake up early to book if not going to a park until later. Maybe by mid morning the more popular LL rides will start to book into the later afternoon and evening. Only reason to get up at 7 would be to add ILL$ because for those you can select your time.


----------



## MMSM

canyoncam said:


> I agree that people will book as they go BECAUSE you are only offered next available time. So therefore I don’t see it being practical for anyone to wake up early to book if not going to a park until later. Maybe by mid morning the more popular LL rides will start to book into the later afternoon and evening. Only reason to get up at 7 would be to add ILL$ because for those you can select your time.


Maybe this has been asked.  We plan on doing park ressies at HS get up do our LLpaid for smugglers run and hope to get genie+ for Slinky. Then head to Tower and RRC. Can I then pay for my second LL to be Remy? That way I don’t have to have a park ressie for Epcot and can just hop.


----------



## Disturbia

Ariel620 said:


> The stacking was confirmed by Disney in one of the Q&A sessions with media or TA.  But it did come from Disney in a language something like...  You can book your second with G+ after you tap into the attraction OR 120 min after you booked the first one.  So if you book your first at 7am, you can book your second at 9am even if you haven't used your first.  So the speculation would be on the third.  I think it is only assumed at this point that it is EVERY 120 min, so the third could be booked at 11 even if you haven't used any.
> 
> I don't have a source since it was from one of the Q&A, but it is confirmed by Disney.


----------



## Turksmom

Smugglers Run is a G+ selection, so you couldn't choose that and Slinky. Rise of the Resistance is the LL selection. You can choose an attraction in a different park if you have a hopper ticket, but I haven't seen info on when you can make that selection


----------



## Disturbia

I don’t think you can stack genie+ unless the park is open and you are in the window. if you rode it you can go ahead and book the next; if you didn’t then you have to wait to book. That’s how I read it

maybe they meant stack as in booked first genie+ (at 7 am), then LLIA no 1 (at 9) and book LLIA no 2 (at 11)?


----------



## MMSM

If this is the case- I don’t mind genie at all


----------



## Disturbia

I feel like a dog chasing it’s tail.  I’m just glad I’ll have some Bloggers reports to reference before I start my trip. 

I feel really bad for Disney not giving a real-time sample to people who are going to be in the parks next week.  They should have done a soft opening so media can report back how it works in real-time.


----------



## Thumper99

Disturbia said:


> I feel like a dog chasing it’s tail.  I’m just glad I’ll have some Bloggers reports to reference before I start my trip.
> 
> I feel really bad for Disney not giving a real-time sample to people who are going to be in the parks next week.  They should have done a soft opening so media can report back how it works in real-time.


I agree. With something this big there should have been a soft opening with a blogger videoing the whole thing. We have one week before we get there after launch. I’m praying some bloggers will be there answering all the questions.


----------



## Disturbia

MMSM said:


> Maybe this has been asked.  We plan on doing park ressies at HS get up do our LLpaid for smugglers run and hope to get genie+ for Slinky. Then head to Tower and RRC. Can I then pay for my second LL to be Remy? That way I don’t have to have a park ressie for Epcot and can just hop.


Yes you can book 1 LLIA in one park and 1 in another; the limit is 2 per day.  Only problem I see is what if Slinky availability is towards the evening, makes hopping a bit less appealing.

I think you meant rise of resistance (LLIA$) as Smugglers run is genie+


----------



## elgerber

Thumper99 said:


> I agree. With something this big there should have been a soft opening with a blogger videoing the whole thing. We have one week before we get there after launch. I’m praying some bloggers will be there answering all the questions.


Maybe they will do a soft opening as a surprise . I can hope right?


----------



## BridgetR3

I remember when magic bands first came out and fastpasses went digital.  We were there one of the first few days and happen to be staying in a resort that offered the switch over.  We had friends there the same week who were staying in a resort that did not offer magic bands or digital fastpasses.  Our week was wonderful; they have never been back because it was SOOOOOO bad.  I have a feeling next week will be similar for some families and I don't understand why Disney can't learn from past mistakes.  (I honestly think we knew more about magic bands and digital fast pass than we do about this new system.)


----------



## JennSaint

Disturbia said:


> I feel like a dog chasing it’s tail.  I’m just glad I’ll have some Bloggers reports to reference before I start my trip.
> 
> I feel really bad for Disney not giving a real-time sample to people who are going to be in the parks next week.  They should have done a soft opening so media can report back how it works in real-time.


I was really hoping it wouldn’t launch until after our trip.  We will be in Epcot next Wednesday and Hollywood studios next Thursday the first couple of days of Genie ugh


----------



## Jonfw2

Will Genie be a new app or will it appear on MDE on October 19?


----------



## Turksmom

Jonfw2 said:


> Will Genie be a new app or will it appear on MDE on October 19?


Part of MDE


----------



## shawthorne44

Disturbia said:


> I don’t think you can stack genie+ unless the park is open and you are in the window. if you rode it you can go ahead and book the next; if you didn’t then you have to wait to book. That’s how I read it
> 
> maybe they meant stack as in booked first genie+ (at 7 am), then LLIA no 1 (at 9) and book LLIA no 2 (at 11)?



No, the stacking with G+ comes into play when the arrival time is more than 2 hours away. People would scream loudly if their only choice for a desirable ride reservation was 6 hours away and their only choice was to get it, and get no more reservations, or not get one for that ride at all. So, if the reservation is more than 2 hours away, you can get another reservation at the 2 hour mark. 

This means that for a park that opens at 9am, you could already have two reservations when the park opened. The one you got at 7am and the one you got at 9am.


----------



## tony67

LSUfan4444 said:


> With Everest being in refurb in January, we arent even going to schedule a park day there sadly much less ILL or Genie+.  Maybe we will hop there but maybe not. Just enough enough for us there right now.


Agreed - I totally skipped AK this trip.   With the 2PM park hopping and the travel time etc.. I gave it a miss.   The biggest problem I have with all of this is the 2PM park hopping and I m not sure that will ever go away - I used to do 3-4 parks a day - now 3 is the max - basically leaving Epcot for last every day.


----------



## Donaldsfans

pigletto said:


> Of all the things that suck about this .. and I think we can all agree on some level that making a Disney trip more expensive sucks … getting up at 7 am every day of my vacation to pay for a chance to compete with other people for a theme park ride sounds absolutely freaking atrocious.


I think I will feel a little bit like I'm at a carnival if I have to pay 9$ to ride an e-ticket attraction using the lightning pass.


----------



## Donaldsfans

shawthorne44 said:


> No, the stacking with G+ comes into play when the arrival time is more than 2 hours away. People would scream loudly if their only choice for a desirable ride reservation was 6 hours away and their only choice was to get it, and get no more reservations, or not get one for that ride at all. So, if the reservation is more than 2 hours away, you can get another reservation at the 2 hour mark.
> 
> This means that for a park that opens at 9am, you could already have two reservations when the park opened. The one you got at 7am and the one you got at 9am.


No, because you have to use the first pass before booking again.


----------



## katyringo

Donaldsfans said:


> No, because you have to use the first pass before booking again.


 
it's been confirmed by disney that you don't have to.  It's use the pass you have or wait two hours- which ever comes first.


----------



## Orsino

BridgetR3 said:


> I remember when magic bands first came out and fastpasses went digital.  We were there one of the first few days and happen to be staying in a resort that offered the switch over.  We had friends there the same week who were staying in a resort that did not offer magic bands or digital fastpasses.  Our week was wonderful; they have never been back because it was SOOOOOO bad.



I remember reading about that time when FP+ became a thing. I was glad to NOT have been there for it. Allowing some people access to both digital and paper fastpass was very unfair to those limited to only paper fastpass.
For Genie+, I think a small test would not be as disruptive. But if there are a lot of people with access to Genie+ and others who aren’t  allowed to buy in, that would be unfair.


----------



## Donaldsfans

Just wow. It starting to feel worse than going to a carnival. At the carnival, you don't pay to get in, but you buy tickets for every ride. Here we pay to get in, then buy tickets. I think if I pay 9$ to ride rise of the resistance, I'll feel taken by a carnie. I also don't like the virtual queues.  People stand around like zombies staring at their phones, trying to make a hit. I don't want to even use my phone when I'm at WDW. It's a little like work.


----------



## buffy71

AndreaA said:


> I think this is going to fundamentally change touring for a lot of people.  When you cannot book something for the evening without giving up booking anything else all day, there is more of a chance that people will book as they go and availability for all rides in the evening will actually last much longer.
> 
> On the other hand, those who enjoy sleeping in, can wake at 7am and book a time for something at 1pm, so I think that availability for afternoon may decrease.


Haha - if you enjoy sleeping in you are not getting up at 7am...but i get your point.


----------



## Disturbia

So if I have a pass at 10-11 am (booked at 7 am),  I can book another at 9 am for 11-12pm?  I can ride both rides or does the first one get invalidated; But then I’ll hold 2 passes all day long If I continue


----------



## PamNC

I'm a new AP Holder - wonder how I will purchase lighting lane and Genie Plus? For $1299 it should be included for free but that's another discussion. LOL


----------



## Disturbia

I bet the system automatically adds half an hour or an hour to prevent holding 2 all day long; on our end we will only see next available at noon


----------



## thanxfornoticin

I'm AP, as well.  We'll purchase it the same way a day-of ticket holder does - through the app the day we want to use it.  At least that's how I'm envisioning it.


----------



## Disturbia

buffy71 said:


> Haha - if you enjoy sleeping in you are not getting up at 7am...but i get your point.


We’ve actually done this where if we didn’t get a ROTR BG, we just took It easy and didn’t rush to get in the parks.  The kids slept in, although after all that stress I couldn’t.


----------



## Marionnette

thanxfornoticin said:


> I'm AP, as well.  We'll purchase it the same way a day-of ticket holder does - through the app the day we want to use it.  At least that's how I'm envisioning it.


I agree. From what I have read, that will be the only way that an APH will be able to purchase Genie+...day of only as of right now.


----------



## Disturbia

katyringo said:


> it's been confirmed by disney that you don't have to.  It's use the pass you have or wait two hours- which ever comes first.


So if it’s 2 hours after your pass and I hold 10-11; then I can only book 12 pm at 10 am which would have been when my first pass started and I would have rode?  that leaves a gap of 11-12pm.

Maybe we all confused start of pass (10 am) vs booking window start (7 am)


----------



## dawnball

Disturbia said:


> I bet the system automatically adds half an hour or an hour to prevent holding 2 all day long; on our end we will only see next available at noon


I doubt it. It's to their advantage for people to use LL access early in the day. Each ride can accommodate so many riders per hour. If the early LL openings go unused, that's wasted capacity. They're limiting usage by eliminating re-rides.

What do you actually need a LL for at Epcot, for example? Test Track, maybe MIssion Space, maybe Soarin'. I don't think that anything else at Epcot will schedule far enough out that stacking would come into play except on very busy days. 

Edit: added very busy days.


----------



## dawnball

Disturbia said:


> So if it’s 2 hours after your pass and I hold 10-11; then I can only book 12 pm at 10 am which would have been when my first pass started and I would have rode?  that leaves a gap of 11-12pm.
> 
> Maybe we all confused start of pass (10 am) vs booking window start (7 am)


It's 2 hours from when you scheduled the return time. So if you book your first LL time at 7:30am (say for a 9:45 return time), you can book the next one at 9:30am. If you booked for a 9:15 return time, you could enter the LL at 9:15, then book the next one. (It's unclear if you can book the next one at 9:15 without entering the LL yet.)  Also, you can rebook LL access, and no one has said what that does to your next-available booking time.


----------



## Disturbia

For an 8 am opening

at 7 am I can book 8-9 and 9-10

OR

at 7 am I can book 8-9; then at 8 am I can book 10-11?


----------



## AndreaA

katyringo said:


> it's been confirmed by disney that you don't have to.  It's use the pass you have or wait two hours- which ever comes first.



People keep saying “it’s confirmed” but the only confirmation is from a Q&A which is NOT confirmation, IMO.  When it’s written down somewhere, THAT’S confirmation.

Also, if the passes are “next available”, then anyone getting up at 7am should be getting the passes that are available pretty much within an hour of opening, unless all the “super tourists” get up at 7am, thus pushing the times out, which would absolutely SUCK for ”normal” people who wait to get into the park to schedule their first ride.  This is why we can’t have nice things - because some people are determined to skirt the rules in order to get more for themselves.

I REALLY hope that the rule of having to use your pass before getting another one sticks.


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

Disturbia said:


> For an 8 am opening
> 
> at 7 am I can book 8-9 and 9-10
> 
> OR
> 
> at 7 am I can book 8-9; then at 8 am I can book 10-11?


Neither.  
For an 8am opening, at 7am you can book 8-9am (or whatever is first available), then at 9am (or whenever you tap into the ride), you can book the next one.  That is my understanding at least.  It's 2 hours from the time you make the reservation or after you tap in, whichever is first.


----------



## AndreaA

Disturbia said:


> For an 8 am opening
> 
> at 7 am I can book 8-9 and 9-10
> 
> OR
> 
> at 7 am I can book 8-9; then at 8 am I can book 10-11?



No, what people are suggesting (not confirmed, IMO) is that for an 8am opening, you can:

at 7am book for 9-10
at 9am book for 10-11 (even if you haven’t gone on your first 9-10 slot ride yet)

Honestly it’s pretty pointless, because if you’re booking at 7am, then yes, you could very well get an 8-9 slot, and then ride and book your second at 8:30 or something.  People are just determined to “work the system” just because they can, even if it makes very little sense.


----------



## Disturbia

AndreaA said:


> People keep saying “it’s confirmed” but the only confirmation is from a Q&A which is NOT confirmation, IMO.  When it’s written down somewhere, THAT’S confirmation.
> 
> Also, if the passes are “next available”, then anyone getting up at 7am should be getting the passes that are available pretty much within an hour of opening, unless all the “super tourists” get up at 7am, thus pushing the times out, which would absolutely SUCK for ”normal” people who wait to get into the park to schedule their first ride.  This is why we can’t have nice things - because some people are determined to skirt the rules in order to get more for themselves.
> 
> I REALLY hope that the rule of having to use your pass before getting another one sticks.



this is all still within the rules.  We don’t get up early (different time zone), but I still want to understand the system to see if my soarin fp will be at 5 pm.  If someone got up at 6 and was at the parks by 7 am with 3 kids, they can go ahead and ride; it’s just not worth the exhaustion for us.


----------



## snikki

I really don’t think they’re going to let you stack LL before the park even opens. And I don’t see 10-11 am return times for most rides within 30 minutes of opening.


----------



## Disturbia

snikki said:


> I really don’t think they’re going to let you stack LL before the park even opens. And I don’t see 10-11 am return times for most rides within 30 minutes of opening.


That’s what I was thinking; not everyone can get the 9-10 am slot so some people will be pushed into the 10-11 am so it all balances out.


----------



## AndreaA

Disturbia said:


> this is all still within the rules.  We don’t get up early (different time zone), but I still want to understand the system to see if my soarin fp will be at 5 pm.  If someone got up at 6 and was at the parks by 7 am with 3 kids, they can go ahead and ride; it’s just not worth the exhaustion for us.



Yeah, but you’ll care if that person was online and part of a crowd booking passes that then pushes your time out to 8pm just so that they can get one more ride in.


----------



## Disturbia

ENJDisneyFan said:


> Neither.
> For an 8am opening, at 7am you can book 8-9am (or whatever is first available), then at 9am (or whenever you tap into the ride), you can book the next one.  That is my understanding at least.  It's 2 hours from the time you make the reservation or after you tap in, whichever is first.



This makes sense to me and feels like the old fp+ system.


----------



## snikki

Disturbia said:


> This makes sense to me and feels like the old fp+ system.



I feel that this whole system is a virtual legacy FP system. Except you have to use your FP/LL in the allotted time. Not whenever you wanted to like legacy FP.


----------



## Disturbia

AndreaA said:


> Yeah, but you’ll care if that person was online and part of a crowd booking passes that then pushes your time out to 8pm just so that they can get one more ride in.



l’ll be riding figment and dreaming of soarin then.  If it works like this I bet there will be tons of disappointed and angry guests.


----------



## focusondisney

I’m interested in APs who have a resort stay.  Hopefully we’ll be able to purchase for length of stay. I realize it doesn’t look like it now.  But just hoping it will play out that way eventually.  Just like we can make park reservations for length of stay.


----------



## snikki

IMO you didn’t and don’t need FP/LL at 8-9 am. Or even 10 am for most rides. Most of our fp+ were set for evenings so we did rope drop, midday break and then used our FP+ at our evening park. We would also sleep in some days and have our FP+ set for midday or the evening. We rarely pulled additional FP+. We never had an issue riding our favorites multiple times and we never waited more than 20 minutes for any ride and we rode everything we wanted. We do take longer trips (8-9 days) and tend to break up our park days in half days doing each park for rope drop at least once and two evenings in each park.

I could see us not buying G+ and doing RD at AM park, hang at the pool and then do ILL at the PM park. Or sleeping in and having a leisurely morning (I’m up at 7 am anyway), buying ILL for midday or the evening and hitting the park in the afternoon. RD and late evenings are prime time to ride rides with minimal waits. That will still be the case with G+. 

I can’t wait to read real life reviews. I have no issues with G+ and will pay if it works with how we like to tour. But as I think about it it may be beneficial for us to just pay for the ILL rides. It all depends on how it works out.


----------



## katyringo

AndreaA said:


> People keep saying “it’s confirmed” but the only confirmation is from a Q&A which is NOT confirmation, IMO.  When it’s written down somewhere, THAT’S confirmation.
> 
> Also, if the passes are “next available”, then anyone getting up at 7am should be getting the passes that are available pretty much within an hour of opening, unless all the “super tourists” get up at 7am, thus pushing the times out, which would absolutely SUCK for ”normal” people who wait to get into the park to schedule their first ride.  This is why we can’t have nice things - because some people are determined to skirt the rules in order to get more for themselves.
> 
> I REALLY hope that the rule of having to use your pass before getting another one sticks.



no one knows for sure until it rolls out.

but like I had commented early that's exactly how maxpass worked and it's not skirting the rules if Disney lets it happens- it's maximizing the system they give you.  The only park opening at 8 is AK..

so give MK with a 9 am opening

I book my first genie + at 7 and get a return time for 9-10am (the first available slot of the day)

since I booked at 7 I can book another at 9. I book another at 9 and get a (10-11) return time.

ive just enjoyed early entry having rode 2-3 rides and now I'm going to go use my two lightening lanes and the park just opened. I use them and can book another. Every 2 hours or when I use a lightening line before the 2 hours I can book another one.

we take an afternoon break- before I take the break I check return times and see some that are later in the evening. I book one more than 2 hours away.  We get to the hotel and take a break and since my booking was more than 2 hours and it's been 2 hours I book another one for the evening.  My family heads back to the park with 2 booked for the evening.


----------



## robinb

JakeAZ said:


> But I stand by it being a terrible concept.  Two systems; one for the main rides and one for the premier rides is a short-sighted mistake.  It also makes things confusing for the non-disney message board visitor.  People don't come back to places they find expensive and confusing.  One or the other, maybe...but, both?


Disney is no longer interested in the repeat visitor so it doesn’t matter if they alienate once in a lifetime guests.


----------



## ftbaker1313

I'm not convinced it will be necessary all of the time. My next trip is in Feb. and I think I will purchase day of for my weekends but  not during the week. Touring plans has my weekdays at 2 and 3s. You can still do single ride buys for the headliner rides anyway.


----------



## katyringo

I could also be totally wrong, it will roll out next week and there could be no stacking what so ever.


----------



## shawthorne44

AndreaA said:


> Yeah, but you’ll care if that person was online and part of a crowd booking passes that then pushes your time out to 8pm just so that they can get one more ride in.



This is very much how FPP worked. If you started at noon, the odds of your getting a 4th FPP were slim, and a 5th even less so. But the people that were finished with the 3 FPP early were booking their extra ones before noon. 

G+ should be better for those that sleep in because of the no-reride rule. Those that are getting their rides in early can't get the same rides later. So, there will be availability for those that start later.


----------



## Jrb1979

katyringo said:


> no one knows for sure until it rolls out.
> 
> but like I had commented early that's exactly how maxpass worked and it's not skirting the rules if Disney lets it happens- it's maximizing the system they give you.  The only park opening at 8 is AK..
> 
> so give MK with a 9 am opening
> 
> I book my first genie + at 7 and get a return time for 9-10am (the first available slot of the day)
> 
> since I booked at 7 I can book another at 9. I book another at 9 and get a (10-11) return time.
> 
> ive just enjoyed early entry having rode 2-3 rides and now I'm going to go use my two lightening lanes and the park just opened. I use them and can book another. Every 2 hours or when I use a lightening line before the 2 hours I can book another one.
> 
> we take an afternoon break- before I take the break I check return times and see some that are later in the evening. I book one more than 2 hours away.  We get to the hotel and take a break and since my booking was more than 2 hours and it's been 2 hours I book another one for the evening.  My family heads back to the park with 2 booked for the evening.


I have this feeling that the 2 hour thing will only work once in the park.  You will probably be able to book your first one at 7am. Your next can't be booked til you enter the park. Otherwise those you don't go to the parks til later just load up on LL


----------



## katyringo

Jrb1979 said:


> I have this feeling that the 2 hour thing will only work once in the park.  You will probably be able to book your first one at 7am. Your next can't be booked til you enter the park. Otherwise those you don't go to the parks til later just load up on LL



maybe. But if you rope drop you would be in the park by 9..


----------



## Jrb1979

katyringo said:


> maybe. But if you rope drop you would be in the park by 9..


True. But you would still be in the park to book your 2nd one. The way it's setup it feels like they don't really want people stacking.


----------



## SCDisneyfanatic

I looked at the Disney News Release and have a question...although I'm afraid I already know the answer.  For the two rides listed as ILL rides, does that mean I can't get those with Genie+?  It appears they are separate and the two in ILL are not listed again in the Genie+ lists.  Thanks.


----------



## thptrek

Our first day is the 19th and we are heading to AK. Will be fun to see how it works. I'll book my first Genie+ at 7am and our first LL$. Then will see what the app will let us do for stacking as the day wears on. 

Park opens at 8am. I plan to get a Genie+ for KS with 8-9 window. LL$ for FOP 10-11 window. As soon as the app will let me I'll do a Genie+ for Navi River. If EE has no wait early we will do that as we walk from Safari to FOP.  This at least is our plan. All subject to change.


----------



## thptrek

SCDisneyfanatic said:


> I looked at the Disney News Release and have a question...although I'm afraid I already know the answer.  For the two rides listed as ILL rides, does that mean I can't get those with Genie+?  It appears they are separate and the two in ILL are not listed again in the Genie+ lists.  Thanks.


Yes, ILL are separate and you pay for Lightening Lane access. Not included and totally separate from Genie+


----------



## MainMom

AndreaA said:


> I think this is going to fundamentally change touring for a lot of people.  When you cannot book something for the evening without giving up booking anything else all day, there is more of a chance that people will book as they go and availability for all rides in the evening will actually last much longer.
> 
> On the other hand, those who enjoy sleeping in, can wake at 7am and book a time for something at 1pm, so I think that availability for afternoon may decrease.


Except that you can’t choose your genie+ time since it’s next available. They may have to keep refreshing and checking back for the later time frame.


----------



## elgerber

thptrek said:


> Our first day is the 19th and we are heading to AK. Will be fun to see how it works. I'll book my first Genie+ at 7am and our first LL$. Then will see what the app will let us do for stacking as the day wears on.
> 
> Park opens at 8am. I plan to get a Genie+ for KS with 8-9 window. LL$ for FOP 10-11 window. As soon as the app will let me I'll do a Genie+ for Navi River. If EE has no wait early we will do that as we walk from Safari to FOP.  This at least is our plan. All subject to change.


I'm glad it starts on our Epcot day, so we at least have time in the morning to see how it's working rather than having to book while on the way to a park.


----------



## sponica

I don't think Genie+ will be utilized by everyone *in the real world* to the extent that it will be utilized by *everyone on this thread*

I _like_ the idea but if it's a daily add on, and not all or nothing, I'm not using it every day. 
A) 45 x 7 = math I can't do right now
B) Right now I don't see 15 dollars to skip the safari and navi river as "worth it", even if I do hop to Epcot in the PM
C) In Epcot, I don't see 15 dollars to skip the lines of the rides I do as "worth it".

I haven't decided my ILL strategy yet. I _think_ at AK, I'm just inclined to wait standby for Everest as we have to rider swap.

I'm not sure I've seen this yet, but if you have non-ticketed riders, can they go through the ILL line on the family rides (Remy, FEA and MMRR?)


----------



## SCDisneyfanatic

A little help here:  I'm not sure how the ILL works, but lets say I head to Frozen in EPCOT and the line is 60 minutes.  Can I then go to the ILL and pay on the spot and do the ride?  Or is it something I need to decide well in advance?


----------



## sponica

SCDisneyfanatic said:


> A little help here:  I'm not sure how the ILL works, but lets say I head to Frozen in EPCOT and the line is 60 minutes.  Can I then go to the ILL and pay on the spot and do the ride?  Or is it something I need to decide well in advance?



You can definitely see what ILL times are available on the spot. So the question will be is it more advantageous *to you* to wait the 60 minutes or is whatever slot may be available better?

ETA: If the next ILL slot is in 3 hours, does that work better or worse than the 60 minute standby wait?


----------



## snikki

SCDisneyfanatic said:


> A little help here:  I'm not sure how the ILL works, but lets say I head to Frozen in EPCOT and the line is 60 minutes.  Can I then go to the ILL and pay on the spot and do the ride?  Or is it something I need to decide well in advance?



I think Disney will be pushing for that. I don’t think most ILL rides will sell out that early in the day.


----------



## Marionnette

SCDisneyfanatic said:


> A little help here:  I'm not sure how the ILL works, but lets say I head to Frozen in EPCOT and the line is 60 minutes.  Can I then go to the ILL and pay on the spot and do the ride?  Or is it something I need to decide well in advance?


You are not guaranteed to enter the LL immediately in this scenario. It's quite possible that an ILL$ slot may not be available for immediate entry. Instead, you would be offered a selection of return time windows to choose from.


----------



## BridgetR3

AndreaA said:


> People keep saying “it’s confirmed” but the only confirmation is from a Q&A which is NOT confirmation, IMO.  When it’s written down somewhere, THAT’S confirmation.
> 
> Also, if the passes are “next available”, then anyone getting up at 7am should be getting the passes that are available pretty much within an hour of opening, unless all the “super tourists” get up at 7am, thus pushing the times out, which would absolutely SUCK for ”normal” people who wait to get into the park to schedule their first ride.  This is why we can’t have nice things - because some people are determined to skirt the rules in order to get more for themselves.
> 
> I REALLY hope that the rule of having to use your pass before getting another one sticks.



If Disney is saying book at 7 a.m. and then 2 hours later you can book a second ride, why would "normal" people wait until they got to the park?  I don't feel as if following the directions as set by Disney is being determined to skirt the rules, after all we used to be able to "stack" three rides at 60 days out and then grab as many as possible day of.   

No offense at all but honestly I'm in the other camp and hope that the book every two hours at least is the way it works because if your first choice is something that is going fast and you pull a 7p.m. for that one, then you would be stuck without any LL all day until 7 p.m. and historically speaking with both of the old fastpass systems, not much is left after 7 p.m.


----------



## SCDisneyfanatic

Appreciate the feedback.  We go the week after next.  I'm hoping for some good feedback next week, but at the least, we will give it a shake down and report back here.


----------



## DisneyKidds

Orsino said:


> Simple: LL availability might go to zero, but Genie+ will always be available. In otherwords, Disney will be happy to sell you Genie+ even if it is useless.


There’s the rub.  They can always sell more Genie+ (it will never sell out) because there will always be a ride available for Genie+ LL….but it’s feasible (as the day wears on) that  there may not be any rides available that you actually want to ride.  If all that is available to me at some point is Philharmagic or Carousel of Progress than it would be a waste of $15 pp.  I’m glad I’ve got plenty of time before our next WDW trip to see how it all plays out in practice.  We are going to DL for a few days in November so we’ll probably try it there just to get a feel for it.


----------



## itf

snikki said:


> I think Disney will be pushing for that. I don’t think most ILL rides will sell out that early in the day.



As an offsite guest I'm definitely worried about being locked out of even paying for Remy / ROTR, even though I resent the idea of paying for them in the first place.


----------



## DisneyKidds

Something nobody seems to be talking about….but didn’t the Genie+ announcements/speculations initially allude to the possibility that, during busy parts of the day, the ability to get on a standby line could be limited????


----------



## snikki

itf said:


> As an offsite guest I'm definitely worried about being locked out of even paying for Remy / ROTR, even though I resent the idea of paying for them in the first place.



Those are the two I think will sell out quicker. And FOP too. The rest I think are safe.


----------



## Marionnette

DisneyKidds said:


> Something nobody seems to be talking about….but didn’t the Genie+ announcements/speculations initially allude to the possibility that, during busy parts of the day, the ability to get on a standby line could be limited????


No. That was DLP that had alluded to VQs once an attraction queue reached a certain wait time. It was speculated that the same would occur at WDW but it was never hinted at by Disney. Quite frankly, I believe that the whole reason that ROTR went to standby lines was because their system cannot handle guests using VQ at it and Remi. VQ at even more attractions will have to wait until their system is upgraded to handle the load.


----------



## DisneyKidds

nurseberta said:


> I just came here to say this! I think what will happen is you will get a genie+ LL that is halfway across the park.... do you head that way or stay put and wait standby??? or will the system send you rides that are close to your location? can't imagine it would work that smoothly. I liked to plan my fast passes so that I could go land to land.


Keep in mind….it’s quite possible that Genie+ could be more useful to Disney for crowd control than it is to guests for actually enjoying their day.  While the concept that Genie will evaluate your likes and location in the park and offer you LL access to things that are convenient and useful to you would be nice…..it’s just as likely that LL options offered could be rides that help Disney (try to) move crowds from one area of the park to a less crowded area of the park.  If you can’t pick your ride and your time, and your only option is what they put in front of you….it could be a bust.  Only time will tell I guess.  I’ve lost any optimism I had that Disney is trying to enhance my experience….


----------



## luv2cheer92

buffy71 said:


> Haha - if you enjoy sleeping in you are not getting up at 7am...but i get your point.


Unless 7am is sleeping in for you, it definitely is for me.


----------



## AnnabelleTheTalkingTree

DisneyKidds said:


> Keep in mind….it’s quite possible that Genie+ could be more useful to Disney for crowd control than it is to guests for actually enjoying their day.  While the concept that Genie will evaluate your likes and location in the park and offer you LL access to things that are convenient and useful to you would be nice…..it’s just as likely that LL options offered could be rides that help Disney (try to) move crowds from one area of the park to a less crowded area of the park.  If you can’t pick your ride and your time, and your only option is what they put in front of you….it could be a bust.  Only time will tell I guess.  I’ve lost any optimism I had that Disney is trying to enhance my experience….



I am really hoping this is not the case, but it has occurred to me too that it could happen this way.  I'll be watching the blogs closely as it all rolls out next week. Genie+ is only worth the money if you actually get to use it for desirable attractions. I'm not spending $60 a day for my family to be herded like sheep onto the Magic Carpets of Aladdin


----------



## AZMermaid

AndreaA said:


> People keep saying “it’s confirmed” but the only confirmation is from a Q&A which is NOT confirmation, IMO.  When it’s written down somewhere, THAT’S confirmation.
> 
> Also, if the passes are “next available”, then anyone getting up at 7am should be getting the passes that are available pretty much within an hour of opening, unless all the “super tourists” get up at 7am, thus pushing the times out, which would absolutely SUCK for ”normal” people who wait to get into the park to schedule their first ride.  This is why we can’t have nice things - because some people are determined to skirt the rules in order to get more for themselves.
> 
> I REALLY hope that the rule of having to use your pass before getting another one sticks.


When Carsland first opened, the fastpasses for RSR ran out within the hour or so, and that was when you lined up for them. Rise books up instantly. 3 weeks ago my phone glitched and I hit the button at 7AM and 3 seconds and missed it (Again DL).  I can absolutely see Slinky booking for 3-5 PM by 7:05AM, maybe sooner. Maybe booking for after dinner before 7:15AM. And maybe this will be their way of basically having a third premium attraction at DHS…. But I hope not. I hope That if I get Slinky for 5PM at 7:04, I’m able to book something else at 9:04.


----------



## AnnabelleTheTalkingTree

luv2cheer92 said:


> Unless 7am is sleeping in for you, it definitely is for me.



I have two little kids - right now if I sleep until 6 it feels like I slept in!  That said, one of the things I love most about Disney is how it knocks my kids OUT   It's a rare opportunity for my husband and I to sleep later than usual. Last time there were a couple of days where we all actually slept until 8, and it was glorious! So while it's likely we'll be up by 7 anyway, I hate feeling like I'm going to wind up setting an alarm for 7:00 just to pay to book Genie+ and LL when JUST MAYBE the stars could align and we could otherwise sleep in until 8!


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

JenSop said:


> Here's a question... what if you want to ride rides in the afternoon.  How do you play the LL and Genie+ game then?  Like, if I wake up at 7am, will I be able to book a 3pm ROTR?  (And then go back to sleep?)
> But at the same time, is it worth it to pay for Genie+ that day, hoping I can ride ToT and RnRC in the afternoon as well.  Again, knowing I do NOT want to go to the park in the morning.
> Ugh.  This is so frustrating!


The first third party website that writes a script that lets you put in your preferences and makes these selections for you at 7 am  so you don't have to wake up every morning of your trip is going to make a lot of money.


----------



## DisneyKidds

AnnabelleTheTalkingTree said:


> I am really hoping this is not the case…..


Yeah, me too!  Unfortunately, Disney has given me more reason to be pessimistic than optimistic for a while now.  Of course, if I expect the worst than I can possibly be pleasantly surprised, right?  That’s the best advice I’d given anyone, set your expectations low!


----------



## buffy71

luv2cheer92 said:


> Unless 7am is sleeping in for you, it definitely is for me.


My teenager would have a good laugh anyone thinks 7am is sleeping in...  that being said, Disney time is different.  I can relax for free at home - I am on a mission when I land in Disney.


----------



## HopperFan

DisneyKidds said:


> Keep in mind….it’s quite possible that *Genie+ could be more useful to Disney for crowd control *than it is to guests for actually enjoying their day.  While the concept that Genie will evaluate your likes and location in the park and offer you LL access to things that are convenient and useful to you would be nice…..it’s just as likely that LL options offered could be rides that help Disney (try to) move crowds from one area of the park to a less crowded area of the park.  If you can’t pick your ride and your time, and your only option is what they put in front of you….it could be a bust.  Only time will tell I guess.  I’ve lost any optimism I had that Disney is trying to enhance my experience….



One of the biggest pluses of the MagicBand when it came out was to do exactly this, using push notifications.  Its ability to track MB could give them tons of usable data.

BUT technology was changing quickly for cell phones and Disney backed off on the implementation of anything more than the basics. For years I questioned why they weren't using the MB to their full ability ... guess they were just working on a much bigger system that one could use in an interactive way on an app.  Using MDE on phone is as good as using RFID chip in MB.

I do believe a large portion of the app will be to help them move guests around the park to equalize lines, restaurants, etc AND help generate more spending.  It will be up to the guests to engage and interact with the app, and that is what will determine the success of the plan or not. Going to be interesting for sure.


----------



## diskids2

buffy71 said:


> My teenager would have a good laugh anyone thinks 7am is sleeping in...  that being said, Disney time is different.  I can relax for free at home - I am on a mission when I land in Disney.


Oh I agree 100%....Call me Bond...James Bond


----------



## AnnabelleTheTalkingTree

katyringo said:


> it's been confirmed by disney that you don't have to.  It's use the pass you have or wait two hours- which ever comes first.



If this is accurate this makes Genie+ way more worth the money than I was thinking.  I've been trying to plan our our spring trip and have been under the assumption that Genie+ reservations must always be 2 hours apart.


----------



## buffy71

I can go along with Genie plus.  I tried MaxPass once in DL and really liked it.  Granted it was $10 pp.  $15 is pushing it and then the idea of paying extra on top of that for specific rides is just over the top. That I probably won't do, or it will be a one and done deal for a new ride. What makes the issue bigger is at the same time Magical Express is going away which is adding on a big chunk of change, it is no longer cost effective for me to get APs, so not going to save money there and paying a high price for daily tickets, which don't even allow real park hopping and at this point, still limited park hours and loss of magic hours. So it is a bunch of stuff rolled together that just is turning me off.  It not one thing, it is many that really change my vacation.  I have taken my kids many many many times...  next trip is for my daughter's 21st bday in June.  That will be it for a while and I will definitely be using my DVC differently and won't be doing 8 night trips anymore or couple trips a year.


----------



## AnnabelleTheTalkingTree

buffy71 said:


> My teenager would have a good laugh anyone thinks 7am is sleeping in...  that being said, Disney time is different.  I can relax for free at home - I am on a mission when I land in Disney.



Time is $$$! Lol.


----------



## gharter

DisneyKidds said:


> Keep in mind….it’s quite possible that Genie+ could be more useful to Disney for crowd control than it is to guests for actually enjoying their day.


this is one of many things that concerns me about this.
If 1000 people all have ride "x" as one they want to do and Genie identifies that it has a short wait, how will it decide who gets notified to go to that attraction now?  I've watched several vlogs that have stated that they have been told that Genie will not send everyone to an attraction with a short wait.


----------



## buffy71

AnnabelleTheTalkingTree said:


> If this is accurate this makes Genie+ way more worth the money than I was thinking.  I've been trying to plan our our spring trip and have been under the assumption that Genie+ reservations must always be 2 hours apart.


If it works the way MaxPass did, once you check in for a ride, you can make another reservation.


----------



## AnnabelleTheTalkingTree

buffy71 said:


> If it works the way MaxPass did, once you check in for a ride, you can make another reservation.



Would that next reservation need to be 2 hours out though? I have never been to DL before so I have no idea how maxpass worked.


----------



## luv2cheer92

AnnabelleTheTalkingTree said:


> Would that next reservation need to be 2 hours out though? I have never been to DL before so I have no idea how maxpass worked.


No it could be 5 minutes out if one is available.


----------



## JakeAZ

robinb said:


> Disney is no longer interested in the repeat visitor so it doesn’t matter if they alienate once in a lifetime guests.


Agree
But are they interested in the answers to “hey you just went to Disney World, right?  How was it?”


----------



## JakeAZ

LSUfan4444 said:


> With Everest being in refurb in January


I wonder if they will move another ride over into the IA$ spot during EE downtime.  Would really make G+ a total waste at AK (which, IMO, it already is).


----------



## AnnabelleTheTalkingTree

luv2cheer92 said:


> No it could be 5 minutes out if one is available.



This would be EXCELLENT.


----------



## AnnabelleTheTalkingTree

I wonder if character meets would eventually qualify for Genie+....


----------



## JakeAZ

DisneyKidds said:


> Keep in mind….it’s quite possible that Genie+ could be more useful to Disney for crowd control than it is to guests for actually enjoying their day.


Both things can be true...but crowd control is a much higher priority to Disney (and getting guests to pay for it, is just icing on the cake).  Just like how they are keeping park reservations.  Very unfriendly to guests, but super helpful to D.


----------



## HopperFan

katyringo said:


> it's been confirmed by disney that you don't have to.  It's use the pass you have or wait two hours- which ever comes first.



Can you share the link to the Disney confirmation of this?



AnnabelleTheTalkingTree said:


> I wonder if character meets would eventually qualify for Genie+....



I would assume eventually just like FP+ did for Princess Hall, Mickey, Tink etc. The structure is already there.


----------



## Thumper99

Does any one know who would be a good vblogger to follow for possible updates on this. We arrive just 5 days after launch and I really feel i’ll want to see how it’s working before shelling out $60 a day. Thank you!


----------



## Marionnette

JakeAZ said:


> Agree
> But are they interested in the answers to “hey you just went to Disney World, right?  How was it?”


Or "Hey! You're having one heck of a great time here at the most magical place on earth! How would you like to ensure that those memories last a lifetime by purchasing an interest in DVC?"

That one and done visitor who just soured on the nickle and dime approach is not going to buy that snake oil.


----------



## Disturbia

ENJDisneyFan said:


> Neither.
> For an 8am opening, at 7am you can book 8-9am (or whatever is first available), then at 9am (or whenever you tap into the ride), you can book the next one.  That is my understanding at least.  It's 2 hours from the time you make the reservation or after you tap in, whichever is first.


So it’s the second option, assuming I tapped in at 8am for an 8 am opening so it’s like the old fast pass (4th) rolling pass.  Now if I didn’t enter the park, then I would have to wait until 10 am, so 2 hours from the booked 8-9 am pass not 2 hours from when 7 am bookings opened..


----------



## Disturbia

Thumper99 said:


> Does any one know who would be a good vblogger to follow for possible updates on this. We arrive just 5 days after launch and I really feel i’ll want to see how it’s working before shelling out $60 a day. Thank you!


I’d search YouTube for Disney world genie, sort by date and see who has most views; I do like paging mr morrow, Tim tracker and Molly (all ears).


----------



## JakeAZ

Marionnette said:


> Or "Hey! You're having one heck of a great time here at the most magical place on earth! How would you like to ensure that those memories last a lifetime by purchasing an interest in DVC?"
> 
> That one and done visitor who just soured on the nickle and dime approach is not going to buy that snake oil.


100%

We were considering DVC while planning for our canceled Corona virus 2020 trip.  Now that we are finally going on this trip, next month, we have zero desire to explore DVC.  It's a one way street with Disney.  Never more obvious than right now.

If we didn't have ticket and DVC rental credit from 2020, I don't think we would have re-booked after the non-stop barrage of loss of on-site benefits / up charges.

I've never had the feeling I haven't spent enough, while planning for a trip this expensive / restrictive (limited ADR availability, park reservations, hopping, etc).  I don't like it.  I am all for paying extra for something I see value in.  But paying for things that are so obviously designed to drain your wallet, is just tiresome.


----------



## Sunelis

Disturbia said:


> I’d search YouTube for Disney world genie, sort by date and see who has most views; I do like paging mr morrow, Tim tracker and Molly (all ears).


I'm sure Craig or Rhyno here at The Dis will do something too. But I have to give it to Molly for explaining a new system.


----------



## gharter

Sunelis said:


> I'm sure Craig or Rhyno here at The Dis will do something too. But I have to give it to Molly for explaining a new system.


She did a very good job.  I see the Dis Unplugged program today is going over that as well. Looking forward to hear their views.


----------



## PepperjackDragon

CWTC said:


> “Genie+ will not sell out on any given day”
> 
> so even on the busiest day of the year it will not sell out? What will availability be on those days in terms of LL?   Does everyone who pays 15$ get one LL?  It feels like if it never sells out then  Disney may be collecting money for a ride pass program that is not beneficial due to the volume of people buying it.


They did the same thing with FP, so in that case its just a less convenient paid fast pass. However, no way 100% of the park is doing it, I would re real surprised to see over 60% participate. It is also possible that the system will automatically adjust the LL to Standby ratio and as crowds increase and G+ purchases increase they will increase availability during each time block and then increase the LL to Standby ratio to keep the LL moving at effectively the same pace, but the stand by crowds getting hit. Obviously just throwing ideas out into the wind here, but I can think of many other ways to keep the LL functioning, none of which will be good news for the standby crowd.


----------



## MainMom

AnnabelleTheTalkingTree said:


> This would be EXCELLENT.


Not if you’re crisscrossing the park all day. Unless you don’t mind that. I do.


----------



## DisneyKidds

PepperjackDragon said:


> However, no way 100% of the park is doing it, I would re real surprised to see over 60% participate.


As others have pointed out, there wasn’t 100% of guests booking FP+ under that system.  It would be interesting to know what % of guests booked FP+ in advance or day of under that system, and whether Genie+ participation ends up being similar.

I do think there are a lot of people, like my family, that used to fully utilize FP+ in conjunction with park hopping. It’s conceivable that a significant portion of those guests don’t upgrade to park hoppers (we didn’t get hoppers on our trip in July, first time we ever skipped that option) if Genie+ doesn’t allow much of the same availability/flexibility that FP+ did. There’s a lot of hopper revenue there to be lost I’d bet. Add to that lost revenue because a lot of people might move off-site (due to erosion of on-site value). Will G+/ILL$ revenue make up for all that?

Of course a lot of that just applies to repeat visitors, which Genie+ doesn’t seem to be designed for, and Disney seemingly doesn’t care about anymore….


----------



## Bibbobboo2u

Thumper99 said:


> Does any one know who would be a good vblogger to follow for possible updates on this. We arrive just 5 days after launch and I really feel i’ll want to see how it’s working before shelling out $60 a day. Thank you!


Molly with AllEars.net is very good, and she noted in her recent Genie video that they will be doing lots and lots of videos on Genie once it launches, including free Genie, Genie+, and ILL$, and they will give honest opinions.  Unfortunately, DH and I are genie-pigs, as we will be at WDW starting 10/17 for the full week.  We will be at HWS on launch day, and that is one of the two parks we might consider using G+ for.  We won't buy ILL$.  The parks will be loaded with bloggers/vloggers, so maybe we will see Molly, which would be a silver lining in this cloud!! 
Here is a link to her Genie video: (She calls ILL$ rides "Fancy Rides".)


----------



## AnnabelleTheTalkingTree

MainMom said:


> Not if you’re crisscrossing the park all day. Unless you don’t mind that. I do.



I mind it too. I'm hoping that can be avoided (I always planned my fastpasses so that we weren't traipsing back and forth). But I'm still happier with this news than thinking that they would all have to be 2 hours apart no matter what.


----------



## JenSop

Okay, I attended the TA webinar today and I was struck by the use of "based on limited availability" when referring to Genie+.  It was A LOT.  So I think the real test will be the people using it those first few weeks.  They will be the ones who help us learn.  Disney will NOT be the one to teach us.


----------



## elgerber

JenSop said:


> Okay, I attended the TA webinar today and I was struck by the use of "based on limited availability" when referring to Genie+.  It was A LOT.  So I think the real test will be the people using it those first few weeks.  They will be the ones who help us learn.  Disney will NOT be the one to teach us.


did it clarify anything we didn't already know?  Like when you can purchase the second ILL?


----------



## yellowfish78

JenSop said:


> Okay, I attended the TA webinar today and I was struck by the use of "based on limited availability" when referring to Genie+.  It was A LOT.  So I think the real test will be the people using it those first few weeks.  They will be the ones who help us learn.  Disney will NOT be the one to teach us.


THIS. I was on the same "call" aka recording too.  Nothing was mentioned about every two hours you can get a LL booking, and "limited availability" was mentioned SO MUCH.  With Genie+ never selling out...it's like you'll be stuck with a 7pm LL booking for Philharmagic and not be able to get anything else for your $15.  

I did like that you can add it to your package booking in advance (based on length of ticket) or the option to buy same say of use. I also liked that resort guests got the 7am LL advantage to book.


----------



## CWTC

JenSop said:


> Okay, I attended the TA webinar today and I was struck by the use of "based on limited availability" when referring to Genie+.  It was A LOT.  So I think the real test will be the people using it those first few weeks.  They will be the ones who help us learn.  Disney will NOT be the one to teach us.


yeah, the subject to availability/limited availability is what catches my eye as well. How limited is it going to be? If they sell 10,000 G+, are there only 1000 LL per ride available? How will we even know that? I was less upset when we couldn’t get a FP (although we loved FP+) because I wasn’t paying for it.  If I am paying 15$ then I expect to get something in return.  I though based on the verbiage I am seeing am sure that Disney thinks I should get much in return for my 15$.  Maybe all their disclaimers are just CYA?  And maybe LL availability will be on par with prior FP: standby ratios?

I am super thrilled that we get there 10/16 and are there through 10/25.  I’m hoping we have a positive experience with G+ and IAS$ (Or ILL$, whatever).


----------



## AnnabelleTheTalkingTree

JenSop said:


> Okay, I attended the TA webinar today and I was struck by the use of "based on limited availability" when referring to Genie+.  It was A LOT.  So I think the real test will be the people using it those first few weeks.  They will be the ones who help us learn.  Disney will NOT be the one to teach us.



I've seen the "limited availability" phrasing before, but the fact that they're underscoring it like that feels a little worrisome. It will be very interesting to follow how this plays out.


----------



## AnnabelleTheTalkingTree

CWTC said:


> yeah, the subject to availability/limited availability is what catches my eye as well. How limited is it going to be? If they sell 10,000 G+, are there only 1000 LL per ride available? How will we even know that? I was less upset when we couldn’t get a FP (although we loved FP+) because I wasn’t paying for it.  If I am paying 15$ then I expect to get something in return.  I though based on the verbiage I am seeing am sure that Disney thinks I should get much in return for my 15$.  Maybe all their disclaimers are just CYA?  And maybe LL availability will be on par with prior FP: standby ratios?



I honestly can't imagine how they will even get away with charging for this if the availability is really going to be so limited. This is why I am so glad I'm not going until the spring.


----------



## CWTC

AnnabelleTheTalkingTree said:


> I honestly can't imagine how they will even get away with charging for this if the availability is really going to be so limited. This is why I am so glad I'm not going until the spring.


I’m super cynical so hopefully I’m wrong about my suspicions  regarding their word choice.


----------



## Disturbia

JakeAZ said:


> 100%
> 
> We were considering DVC while planning for our canceled Corona virus 2020 trip.  Now that we are finally going on this trip, next month, we have zero desire to explore DVC.  It's a one way street with Disney.  Never more obvious than right now.
> 
> If we didn't have ticket and DVC rental credit from 2020, I don't think we would have re-booked after the non-stop barrage of loss of on-site benefits / up charges.
> 
> I've never had the feeling I haven't spent enough, while planning for a trip this expensive / restrictive (limited ADR availability, park reservations, hopping, etc).  I don't like it.  I am all for paying extra for something I see value in.  But paying for things that are so obviously designed to drain your wallet, is just tiresome.



We were booked at Riviera for 40% off with Disney Visa card March 2020.  I had all my FP and dining (SDMT, FOP; Oga’s, CRT, BOG, Ohana, Topolinos).  We were also looking into buying DVC (Riviera or AKL) as we have an infant and have been going to WDW at least once a year for a decade. 

I feel Disney could have built more things for younger kids while parents wait-an interactive meet and greet with a young Navi or banshee; Pandora play area, interactive elements in the FOP and Navi queue etc.

Im still a bit hopeful that things will improve once the creative CMs are rehired.


----------



## Disturbia

BTW I just spent 25 mins at 2 pm ESt booking a dessert party because the payment area was blank (on my iPad).  I had to keep logging in, had a code sent to my email, I knew to keep going back to the payment screen and refreshing (saw Donald and no access screen many times).  

Finally I had to open my app and after the 4th time of searching again and again, the reservation time showed up and i was able to proceed  (logging in, entering code from email etc) and the saved payment was populated.  This is a bad sign for the LLIA payment at 7 am.


----------



## JenSop

elgerber said:


> did it clarify anything we didn't already know?  Like when you can purchase the second ILL?


We learned nothing new.  Nothing.  And It just makes me more worried by the generous usage of "limited availability" on their part.


----------



## JenSop

Just adding.... As an "afternoon park person" I wonder if our $15 Genie+ will get us anything.  A 5pm slot for Star Tours?


----------



## Disturbia

JenSop said:


> Just adding.... As an "afternoon park person" I wonder if our $15 Genie+ will get us anything.  A 5pm slot for Star Tours?


I’m thinking it will be like the printed fast pass times, so if you’re booking in the first hour of booking window (7-8 am) you should be able to score Soarin for the afternoon and maybe one other ride when you’re in the park for $15 genie+.


----------



## JenSop

Disturbia said:


> I’m thinking it will be like the printed fast pass times, so if you’re booking in the first hour of booking window (7-8 am) you should be able to score Soarin for the afternoon and maybe one other ride for $15 genie+.


That's my fear as well.


----------



## Turksmom

Bibbobboo2u said:


> Molly with AllEars.net is very good, and she noted in her recent Genie video that they will be doing lots and lots of videos on Genie once it launches, including free Genie, Genie+, and ILL$, and they will give honest opinions.  Unfortunately, DH and I are genie-pigs, as we will be at WDW starting 10/17 for the full week.  We will be at HWS on launch day, and that is one of the two parks we might consider using G+ for.  We won't buy ILL$.  The parks will be loaded with bloggers/vloggers, so maybe we will see Molly, which would be a silver lining in this cloud!!
> Here is a link to her Genie video: (She calls ILL$ rides "Fancy Rides".)


We'll be Genie Pigs together! I'm also at HS on the 19th.


----------



## Bibbobboo2u

Turksmom said:


> We'll be Genie Pigs together! I'm also at HS on the 19th.


I tried to come up with a g-pig t-shirt but that fell flat.  Then I saw a small guinea pig plushy and thought “I could give it a top hair tuft, goatee, and gold earring… glue it to a headband…but my DH gave me that look…never said anything…,walked out of room…don’t think he is amused by this whole Genie thing.  So no genie pig headband either.  You would probably have been able to recognize me in it, though!


----------



## nurseberta

katyringo said:


> no one knows for sure until it rolls out.
> 
> but like I had commented early that's exactly how maxpass worked and it's not skirting the rules if Disney lets it happens- it's maximizing the system they give you.  The only park opening at 8 is AK..
> 
> so give MK with a 9 am opening
> 
> I book my first genie + at 7 and get a return time for 9-10am (the first available slot of the day)
> 
> since I booked at 7 I can book another at 9. I book another at 9 and get a (10-11) return time.
> 
> ive just enjoyed early entry having rode 2-3 rides and now I'm going to go use my two lightening lanes and the park just opened. I use them and can book another. Every 2 hours or when I use a lightening line before the 2 hours I can book another one.
> 
> we take an afternoon break- before I take the break I check return times and see some that are later in the evening. I book one more than 2 hours away.  We get to the hotel and take a break and since my booking was more than 2 hours and it's been 2 hours I book another one for the evening.  My family heads back to the park with 2 booked for the evening.




solid plan!!!!!!


----------



## nurseberta

itf said:


> As an offsite guest I'm definitely worried about being locked out of even paying for Remy / ROTR, even though I resent the idea of paying for them in the first place.



DITTO!!! I'm trying to entice my kids to want to come back because they are die-hard UO fans who always stay onsite and are used to express pass, doing the whole park, laying by the pool, and then doing it again.
 I'm going to have to buy it all!! to even compete!


----------



## PepperjackDragon

nurseberta said:


> solid plan!!!!!!


This is how I hope it goes as well! Add in extended evening hours and we won’t even have to pay for the mk/Epcot tier1. The biggest concern right now is that they are going to make them so limited that the plan falls apart (and waking up early enough on the day after extended evenings.)


----------



## Disturbia

JenSop said:


> That's my fear as well.


For Epcot and since Soarin (Test track is also mostly shaded) is an indoor queue, it probably makes sense to just save the genie+ $$ and pay for LL instead.


----------



## Jonfw2

Disney did a webinar for travel agents yesterday. The “120 minute rule” was not mentioned.


----------



## nurseberta

DisneyKidds said:


> Keep in mind….it’s quite possible that Genie+ could be more useful to Disney for crowd control than it is to guests for actually enjoying their day.  While the concept that Genie will evaluate your likes and location in the park and offer you LL access to things that are convenient and useful to you would be nice…..it’s just as likely that LL options offered could be rides that help Disney (try to) move crowds from one area of the park to a less crowded area of the park.  If you can’t pick your ride and your time, and your only option is what they put in front of you….it could be a bust.  Only time will tell I guess.  I’ve lost any optimism I had that Disney is trying to enhance my experience….



No doubt in my mind this is about crowd control, though if crowd control makes the parks a better experience then that is a win-win for the business and for guests. psychologically, knowing you have the opportunity to skip ahead of the line keeps people around for the long waits because you feel like you got something special. I think everything will sell, and sell out to capacity. people just want less inconvenience and will pay whatever they can for it.


----------



## RamieGee

After trying my best not to worry about this Genie+ thing since the rumors started, I am now all riled up again.  Just got an email from my TA asking if we want to add Genie+ to our package for our trip starting on 10/30.  That brought all the feelings.

There's a real bait-and-switch aspect for those of us traveling over the next month or so.  2 1/2 weeks out I'm committed to this vacation - my kids are over the moon excited, I've made arrangements with work/school, I've paid Disney an exorbitant amount for my package, airfare is paid for, park reservations made, transportation is booked.  And now a system they are suddenly putting in place could potentially significantly change the experience I was expecting when I booked this trip (maybe for the worse if it changes stand-by times beyond what they were historically).  We are in the parks 7 days, and for my family of 5, it could potentially cost an additional $1,000 to have the experience I was expecting when I committed to this trip (depending on what is needed with Genie+ and ILL$ not to wait in hours and hours of lines).  2 1/2 WEEKS OUT and there's a surprise potential $500-$1,000 added to my trip.  For an experience with so many unknowns.

I was planning this trip for several years, cancelled and re-booked a year ago, and really needed this vacation after a pretty crappy 2 years.  And now I feel the pressure that if I don't cough up $500-$1000 more, it might end up being a frustrating trip of long lines and missed rides we were all looking forward. And we don't go frequently at all. These are "big" trips for us.

I'm so disappointed in Disney.  To put it lightly, because this is a public forum and I'm a lady.  Sigh.  That's all.  That's the rant.


----------



## Turksmom

Bibbobboo2u said:


> I tried to come up with a g-pig t-shirt but that fell flat.  Then I saw a small guinea pig plushy and thought “I could give it a top hair tuft, goatee, and gold earring… glue it to a headband…but my DH gave me that look…never said anything…,walked out of room…don’t think he is amused by this whole Genie thing.  So no genie pig headband either.  You would probably have been able to recognize me in it, though!


We have guinea pigs and I considered sewing Genie costumes so I could put their picture on a T-shirt. Then I realized photoshop would be easier, but my family had the same reaction as your husband


----------



## nurseberta

AnnabelleTheTalkingTree said:


> I am really hoping this is not the case, but it has occurred to me too that it could happen this way.  I'll be watching the blogs closely as it all rolls out next week. Genie+ is only worth the money if you actually get to use it for desirable attractions. I'm not spending $60 a day for my family to be herded like sheep onto the Magic Carpets of Aladdin



now that's a low capacity ride........ but you have a G+LL for it!!!


----------



## shawthorne44

DisneyKidds said:


> As others have pointed out, there wasn’t 100% of guests booking FP+ under that system.  It would be interesting to know what % of guests booked FP+ in advance or day of under that system, and whether Genie+ participation ends up being similar.
> 
> I do think there are a lot of people, like my family, that used to fully utilize FP+ in conjunction with park hopping. It’s conceivable that a significant portion of those guests don’t upgrade to park hoppers (we didn’t get hoppers on our trip in July, first time we ever skipped that option) if Genie+ doesn’t allow much of the same availability/flexibility that FP+ did. There’s a lot of hopper revenue there to be lost I’d bet. Add to that lost revenue because a lot of people might move off-site (due to erosion of on-site value). Will G+/ILL$ revenue make up for all that?
> 
> Of course a lot of that just applies to repeat visitors, which Genie+ doesn’t seem to be designed for, and Disney seemingly doesn’t care about anymore….



I see park hopping as being more desirable with G+. Changing parks gives a fresh batch of G+ options.

Now offsite and ILL$$$ makes more sense. The only benefit I see to onsite is the early entry. During which you could get one, maybe two ILL$$$ during early entry (being really generous). So, you can set a price on early entry equal to 2 x (Avg. ILL cost) x #(number in the room). So, for our family of 3 assuming $10 per ILL$$$, we only need to save $60 by staying offsite, to make it a better deal. $65 when you figure we'd be paying $25 for park parking instead of $20 for resort parking. It isn't hard at all to find someplace much nicer than on-site for much less. Plus, even early-birds like me would rather schedule a ride for choosing, than deal with the elbowing hordes at early entry.


----------



## wisblue

AnnabelleTheTalkingTree said:


> I've seen the "limited availability" phrasing before, but the fact that they're underscoring it like that feels a little worrisome. It will be very interesting to follow how this plays out.



Does that “limited availability” refer to a limited number of possible ride reservations being available to Genie+ purchasers, or a limited number of guests being able to purchase Genie+ on a given day?

It wouldn’t take long for word to get around if purchasers of Genie+ for a day are only able to get LL reservations for a couple of lower tier attractions.


----------



## JenSop

wisblue said:


> Does that “limited availability” refer to a limited number of possible ride reservations being available to Genie+ purchasers, or a limited number of guests being able to purchase Genie+ on a given day?
> 
> It wouldn’t take long for word to get around if purchasers of Genie+ for a day are only able to get LL reservations for a couple of lower tier attractions.


It really FEELS like there's a chance the good rides might run out of passes, so you'd be left with the rides that never needed Genie+ in the first place.


----------



## gharter

JenSop said:


> It really FEELS like there's a chance the good rides might run out of passes, so you'd be left with the rides that never needed Genie+ in the first place.


 I would expect that this would be like FP+ in that there were a certain number FPs available for an attraction and when they are gone, they are gone.  What that number is would be anyone's guess.  Now that you are paying for it, you would hope that number would be higher.


----------



## jahudso0

Is there any indication how rider swap would work with genie+ or lightning lane?  Would the returning rider have to go back alone, or could they bring along someone else, even if that other person had already used their genie + or paid lightning lane pass.


----------



## Figment1990

RamieGee said:


> After trying my best not to worry about this Genie+ thing since the rumors started, I am now all riled up again.  Just got an email from my TA asking if we want to add Genie+ to our package for our trip starting on 10/30.  That brought all the feelings.
> 
> There's a real bait-and-switch aspect for those of us traveling over the next month or so.  2 1/2 weeks out I'm committed to this vacation - my kids are over the moon excited, I've made arrangements with work/school, I've paid Disney an exorbitant amount for my package, airfare is paid for, park reservations made, transportation is booked.  And now a system they are suddenly putting in place could potentially significantly change the experience I was expecting when I booked this trip (maybe for the worse if it changes stand-by times beyond what they were historically).  We are in the parks 7 days, and for my family of 5, it could potentially cost an additional $1,000 to have the experience I was expecting when I committed to this trip (depending on what is needed with Genie+ and ILL$ not to wait in hours and hours of lines).  2 1/2 WEEKS OUT and there's a surprise potential $500-$1,000 added to my trip.  For an experience with so many unknowns.
> 
> I was planning this trip for several years, cancelled and re-booked a year ago, and really needed this vacation after a pretty crappy 2 years.  And now I feel the pressure that if I don't cough up $500-$1000 more, it might end up being a frustrating trip of long lines and missed rides we were all looking forward. And we don't go frequently at all. These are "big" trips for us.
> 
> I'm so disappointed in Disney.  To put it lightly, because this is a public forum and I'm a lady.  Sigh.  That's all.  That's the rant.


I hear you.  I knew going into booking our Thanksgiving trip that there was a lot of unknown (pandemic has me more cautious than ever).  But this was really not one of the things I had in the realm of possibility. (Silly ol' me actually thought perhaps they would have some discounts out by now. hahaha) I was prepared for still a lack of fastpasses, park reservations, and some sort of mask requirement.  But I just feel like for a park(s) that are SO heavily under construction (particularly epcot), still limited in what is available (live entertainment, some restaurants, etc), limited park hours, restricted park hopping, park reservations required, etc. - I didn't expect them to try to charge me MORE for visiting during a pandemic!

And you are right - it's hard to reschedule when you've already made arrangements for school/work/family at this point.  So it feels like a lose/lose situation.  You either suck it up and go and pay / go and not pay and wait / or you throw everything into upheaval. Again.  'Cause that's what people want to do after 18 months of pandemic upheaval.


----------



## CWTC

wisblue said:


> Does that “limited availability” refer to a limited number of possible ride reservations being available to Genie+ purchasers, or a limited number of guests being able to purchase Genie+ on a given day?


Disney has explicitly stated G+ will never sell out.  So presumably the LL passes are limited. How limited is the question. Will there be guests who pay 15$, get no LL, and get no refund because Disney said upfront that availability is limited? In the past if I didn’t get a FP, whatever it was free. If I pay, I have an expectation I will get LL for at least 3 rides that I want vs 3 for the carousel of progress.   We were always happy with soarin or TT, livin with the land, and spaceship earth FP+.  If I can’t get at least 3 FPs per day that we want, I’m not sure I see the value.


----------



## Turksmom

CWTC said:


> Disney has explicitly stated G+ will never sell out.  So presumably the LL passes are limited. How limited is the question. Will there be guests who pay 15$, get no LL, and get no refund because Disney said upfront that availability is limited? In the past if I didn’t get a FP, whatever it was free. If I pay, I have an expectation I will get LL for at least 3 rides that I want vs 3 for the carousel of progress.   We were always happy with soarin or TT, livin with the land, and spaceship earth FP+.  If I can’t get bat least 3 FPs per day that we want, I’m not sure I see the value.


 You can only use LL once per attraction, so no worries about 3 CoP. You'd get CoP, Barnstormer, and Philharmagic


----------



## CWTC

Turksmom said:


> You can only use LL once per attraction, so no worries about 3 CoP. You'd get CoP, Barnstormer, and Philharmagic


Touché.  Although I suspect they would make a   G+ exception to get rid of CoP LL passes.


----------



## Jcruise86

Line shortening options remind me of that Gilbert & Sullivan line: "_If everybody's somebody, that no one's any body_."

$15 per day per person will sound reasonable to most Disney World guests, 
just as paying for parking, Magic Bands, and airport transportation fees are reasonable. But 
at $15, the demand for some Lightning Lane attractions will be so high that Disney will be "forced" to add more attractions to the individual upcharge list and/or charge more for Lightning Lane. You'll see.


----------



## CWTC

Jcruise86 said:


> But at $15, the demand for some Lightning Lane attractions will be so high that Disney will be "forced" to add more attractions to the individual upcharge list and/or charge more for Lightning Lane.


100%. The prices will go up.


----------



## AZMermaid

Yes! We go at Christmas. I think they’ll be at 20 by then


----------



## Figment1990

At this point, I'm starting to feel like I should just get in my car and drive to disney tonight before all h-e-double-hockey sticks breaks loose! Screw work and school!


----------



## Disturbia

I’m watching Dis unplugged and it was said that if you have a pass later and you just rode the same ride, genie knows what you’re doing and will erase that pass!!!!

so I can’t come in during resort guest early entry and ride the ride that I have my first genie suggestion (edit: itinerary; not genie+) for

Edit:  Genie will only erase a selection from a suggested itinerary not your paid passes


----------



## CWTC

Figment1990 said:


> At this point, I'm starting to feel like I should just get in my car and drive to disney tonight before all h-e-double-hockey sticks breaks loose!


Given that the IT infrastructure struggles with ADR drops and dessert party bookings, I have close to zero confidence that the apps will pushed out to the app stores, that the app will be able to handle everyone buying G+, then booking LL, and buying IA$ all around 7am on 10/19. Thank goodness we keep booze in our owners locker because I might be drinking a mimosa in our room  by 7am at the BCV.


----------



## DisneyKidds

shawthorne44 said:


> I see park hopping as being more desirable with G+. Changing parks gives a fresh batch of G+ options.


That assumes when you are headed to a new park in the late afternoon or evening there are actually LL reservations available thru G+ that you actually want to use.

That’s a big assumption at this point, no?

Under FP+ I could hop to Epcot in the evening with Test Track or Soarin, as well as something like Spaceshilp Earth, in hand.  It could make for a nice evening.  If the same can’t be accomplished with G+ I can’t see it making hopping more desirable….


----------



## Grasshopper2016

Disturbia said:


> I’m watching Dis unplugged and it was said that if you have a pass later and you just rode the same ride, genie knows what you’re doing and will erase that pass!!!!
> 
> so I can’t come in during resort guest early entry and ride the ride that I have my first genie+ for


That can’t possibly be right, can it???   If so, I’m out.


----------



## Grasshopper2016

CWTC said:


> I have close to zero confidence . . .that the app will be able to handle everyone buying G+, then booking LL, and buying IA$ all around 7am


Keep in mind that 7:00 is also when people have to book boarding groups.  And it is also the heart of the ADR window.  This isn’t going to be pretty.


----------



## Disturbia




----------



## DisneyKidds

Disturbia said:


> I’m thinking it will be like the printed fast pass times, so if you’re booking in the first hour of booking window (7-8 am) you should be able to score Soarin for the afternoon and maybe one other ride when you’re in the park for $15 genie+.


That assumes, like under FP+, you get to choose your attraction and return window.  Based on discussion so far it doesn’t really sound like Genie+ will operate that way.  If Genie never offers you Soarin’ at a time you can use in the afternoon….you may be out of luck.  I hope that’s not the case.  We’ll know in a week….


----------



## JCornell

gharter said:


> I would expect that this would be like FP+ in that there were a certain number FPs available for an attraction and when they are gone, they are gone.  What that number is would be anyone's guess.  Now that you are paying for it, you would hope that number would be higher.


Also, there will be less people taking advantage of G+ since it isn't free, and more rides available since you can only do them once each.


----------



## wisblue

JenSop said:


> It really FEELS like there's a chance the good rides might run out of passes, so you'd be left with the rides that never needed Genie+ in the first place.



My baseline expectation is that availability will be similar to the availability of paper FPs, which for the most popular attractions were either gone or pushed well into the evening by late morning or early afternoon.


----------



## Disturbia

The erasing the pass if you already rode it is at 18 minutes in the video, so if you rode Big Thunder (standby), genie (free only; not standby) will erase a later pass

Edit:  Genie will only erase a selection from a suggested itinerary not your paid passes


----------



## Jrb1979

DisneyKidds said:


> That assumes, like under FP+, you get to choose your attraction and return window.  Based on discussion so far it doesn’t really sound like Genie+ will operate that way.  If Genie never offers you Soarin’ at a time you can use in the afternoon….you may be out of luck.  I hope that’s not the case.  We’ll know in a week….


From what's been said you won't be able to pick your return time. Whatever ride you pick, you have to take the return time they give you.


----------



## Bibbobboo2u

Disturbia said:


> I’m watching Dis unplugged and it was said that if you have a pass later and you just rode the same ride, genie knows what you’re doing and will erase that pass!!!!
> 
> so I can’t come in during resort guest early entry and ride the ride that I have my first genie+ for


To quote Molly “Don’t you dare Genie!” If i am willing to do standby for a ride I like and have also paid for LL g+ for that ride, my LL pass should not be erased!


----------



## DisneyKidds

CWTC said:


> Touché.  Although I suspect they would make a   G+ exception to get rid of CoP LL passes.


You all are forgetting the “Surprise Fast Passes” that used to spit out of the machines when you were getting a FP you actually wanted.  Now Genie will just **poof** the equivalent Philharmagic  or CoP LL pass to your phone…..to be ignored and unused just like the old paper Surprise Fast Passes.


----------



## Disturbia

Not the LLIA paid rides but the genie suggestions Will get erased if you rode it standby

they used slinky dog as an example; if you have a 5 pm genie suggested free (edit: not genie+) pass but rode it when it had a lower wait at 3; it will erase it from the itinerary, so you can’t ride it twice (still confused and think it’s disadvantageous to standby)

Edit: Genie will only erase a selection from a suggested itinerary not your paid passes


----------



## DisneyKidds

Disturbia said:


> I’m watching Dis unplugged and it was said that if you have a pass later and you just rode the same ride, genie knows what you’re doing and will erase that pass!!!!
> 
> so I can’t come in during resort guest early entry and ride the ride that I have my first genie+ for


What you are saying is that if you ride something standby the Mouse will know, and that will preclude you from being able to make a G+ or ILL reservation.  Sorry, I’m not buying that.


----------



## Bibbobboo2u

Disturbia said:


> I’m watching Dis unplugged and it was said that if you have a pass later and you just rode the same ride, genie knows what you’re doing and will erase that pass!!!!
> 
> so I can’t come in during resort guest early entry and ride the ride that I have my first genie+ for


To quote a penguin “well that sucks”


----------



## DisneyKidds

Deep breaths Disney fan community….that can’t possibly be true.  What’s next, they’ll ban you from the standby line once you’ve entered it once??


----------



## Bibbobboo2u

DisneyKidds said:


> What you are saying is that if you ride something standby the Mouse will know, and that will preclude you from being able to make a G+ or ILL reservation.  Sorry, I’m not buying that.


That would make G+ beyond worthless.  If that is how it is going to work, Disney needs to state the “rules” on its website before launching.  Why buy it?  Turn off Bluetooth, use Lines app, and just do what you want.


----------



## katyringo

Well all I think we have discussed it to death lol. ..

All that's left is for it to roll out.. 1 week from today!

those who are genie pigs just know that you will have a wonderful trip and a good story to tell!


----------



## Disturbia

DisneyKidds said:


> Deep breaths Disney fan community….that can’t possibly be true.  What’s next, they’ll ban you from the standby line once you’ve entered it once??



I think they’re trying to limit the number of people re riding rides


----------



## meggers628

that can’t be true. What if you didn’t have a magic band, and you turned off Bluetooth/location services?


----------



## Disturbia

They had a media preview and the erasing the genie suggest itinerary (free) pass if you rode standby is mentioned clearly

Edit: Genie will only erase a selection from a suggested itinerary not your paid passes


----------



## snikki

If it erases your LL if you rode standby it really makes G+ a very rigid system that we now have to pay for. Wow.

If that’s the case I’ll stick with my plan on buying ILL for the evening park and doing RD at a separate park. Like I did with FP+.


----------



## Disturbia

snikki said:


> If it erases your LL if you rode standby it really makes G+ A very rigid system that we now have to pay for. Wow.


It erases a genie itinerary booking (free; not genie+); not the LLIA


----------



## Tiggerontheseas

Disturbia said:


> The erasing the pass if you already rode it is at 18 minutes in the video, so if you rode Big Thunder (standby), genie+ will erase a later pass



I just watched the video at the point where this is discussed and I'm not sold that he is right.  I'm sure that there was some miscommunication somewhere.  Not about the Big Brother, that's a given (lol), but about it actually erasing a FF you have if you ride standby earlier.  Perhaps it is if you somehow managed to get through on the Lightning Lane earlier that it would then erase your later FP?  Because that makes sense and is totally valid.


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

Disturbia said:


> I’m watching Dis unplugged and it was said that if you have a pass later and you just rode the same ride, genie knows what you’re doing and will erase that pass!!!!
> 
> so I can’t come in during resort guest early entry and ride the ride that I have my first genie+ for


You’re misunderstanding something I think or they are not explaining it correctly.  How could Genie know what you rode using a standby line?


meggers628 said:


> that can’t be true. What if you didn’t have a magic band, and you turned off Bluetooth/location services?


yeah, this.


----------



## DisneyKidds

Disturbia said:


> Not the LLIA paid rides but the genie+ Will get erased if you rode it standby
> 
> they used slinky dog as an example; if you have a 5 pm genie+ pass but rode it when it had a lower wait at 3; it will erase the genie+ pass


What if you ride it at 3 but it had a longer wait….do you get to keep your Genie+ reservation then?

Me thinks our Genie+ threads have jumped the shark!


----------



## Disturbia

I really wanted to like this; now I’m not sure I want to buy this; but for parks where waits never go down and I’m likely to ride something only once, then maybe


----------



## Disturbia

AnnaKristoff2013 said:


> You’re misunderstanding something I think or they are not explaining it correctly.  How could Genie know what you rode using a standby line?
> 
> yeah, this.



They said it’s like Big Brother; watch the Dis unplugged video.  It knows you rode it and will erase it from your genie suggested itinerary (free) lineup (not genie+)


----------



## DisneyKidds

Disturbia said:


> Not the LLIA paid rides but the genie+ Will get erased if you rode it standby
> 
> they used slinky dog as an example; if you have a 5 pm genie+ pass but rode it when it had a lower wait at 3; it will erase the genie+ pass


What if you ride it at 3 but it had a longer wait….do you get to keep your Genie+ reservation then?

Me thinks our Genie+ threads have jumped the shark!


----------



## snikki

Is disney IT smart enough to erase a LL if you rode it standby earlier ?


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

snikki said:


> If it erases your LL if you rode standby it really makes G+ a very rigid system that we now have to pay for. Wow.
> 
> If that’s the case I’ll stick with my plan on buying ILL for the evening park and doing RD at a separate park. Like I did with FP+.


Turn off location services on your phone and dont use a magicband…. This cant be true.


----------



## Disturbia

snikki said:


> Is disney IT smart enough to erase a LL if you rode it standby earlier ?


I’ve had cast member erase fast passes if I did rider switch (with anytime fp), so I know for a fact they see and erase things


----------



## Figment1990

Disturbia said:


> The erasing the pass if you already rode it is at 18 minutes in the video, so if you rode Big Thunder (standby), genie+ will erase a later pass


Ok admittedly I didn’t watch the video. Is that info directly from Disney??? If they do that it might push me over the edge. How can they think this is good PR? I can see them limiting one G+ ride per person but to take that G+ ride away if u ride standby??? Why do they want to crush the souls of kids?  Re-ride desire isn’t just limited to headliners. Sometimes kids want to ride buzz lightyear multiple times and if I want to use my G+ on it say, at 10:30 am when it’s busier and also rope drop it I should be able to!  (Not saying this is our current touring but when my son was little it certainly was).


----------



## Disturbia

Figment1990 said:


> Ok admittedly I didn’t watch the video. Is that info directly from Disney??? If they do that it might push me over the edge. How can they think this is good PR? I can see them limiting one G+ ride per person but to take that G+ ride away if u ride standby??? Why do they want to crush the souls of kids?  Re-ride desire isn’t just limited to headliners. Sometimes kids want to ride buzz lightyear multiple times and if I want to use my G+ on it say, at 10:30 am when it’s busier and also rope drop it I should be able to!  (Not saying this is our current touring but when my son was little it certainly was).


It’s a media preview where they tried it and asked questions.  They didn’t like the Big Brother aspect.


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

Figment1990 said:


> Ok admittedly I didn’t watch the video. Is that info directly from Disney??? If they do that it might push me over the edge. How can they think this is good PR? I can see them limiting one G+ ride per person but to take that G+ ride away if u ride standby??? Why do they want to crush the souls of kids?  Re-ride desire isn’t just limited to headliners. Sometimes kids want to ride buzz lightyear multiple times and if I want to use my G+ on it say, at 10:30 am when it’s busier and also rope drop it I should be able to!  (Not saying this is our current touring but when my son was little it certainly was).


I say again, how would they know?  Do we think Disney is installing facial recognition software at every ride entrance?  One of the presenters misspoke or something.


----------



## Disturbia

Maybe we can buy it later in the day so do your early morning resort guest rides and then pay/book genie+


----------



## Grasshopper2016

If what Disturbia is saying is true (and I know that he/she is just passing on what's in the video), then that is an abomination.  It's punishing you for being willing to both stand in lines and pay extra money.  At first, I thought, "well then why purchase Genie+?"  But after thinking about it for a minute, I'm thinking "well then why go to Disney World at all?"  This would literally be my breaking point.


----------



## Disturbia

they are saying if you miss it (say big Thunder mountain); you might not be able to ride it again but take screenshots; there may be no leeway or minimum grace;

If ride goes down, it will reoptimize; it’s just like maxpass at Disneyland? They are uncertain of a ride goes down for weather, they are not sure you will get an anytime pass or anything


----------



## Disturbia

AnnaKristoff2013 said:


> Turn off location services on your phone and dont use a magicband…. This cant be true.


This is a really good idea, but they have GPS in it, so someone has to stand outside the ride (we have an infant, so she will have a lot of extra toys I guess).  We can have our decoy old magic bands on just in case.


----------



## persnickity2020

This is so frustrating, it took time to come to terms with having to pay for this at all (we're going during a busy week, so our choices are probably to pay for a couple of days G+ or have a miserable $10K vacation). Then they leaked that we can't book re-rides, even in parks with very few choices, and I had to come to terms with that and plan around it. And now this nonsense, where they will take away a ride you are paying extra for because you stood in line for it once already??

We have sunk costs in this trip, but they are not ALL sunk costs. If this one is accurate, they are about to make considerably less money on our trip. Instead of throwing money at them to make our trip "worth it", I will cut every corner I can to make it a better value.


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

Disturbia said:


> This is a really good idea, but they have GPS in it, so someone has to stand outside the ride (we have an infant, so she will have a lot of extra toys I guess)


You can turn off the gps in your phone.  You can put it in airplane mode **or** you can turn it off entirely.  This rumor simply cannot be true.  You can set your phone’s privacy settings so it doesn’t communicate your location to disney, and you can do that dynamically, or, as I said, you can just turn it off.


----------



## dawnball

AnnaKristoff2013 said:


> I say again, how would they know?  Do we think Disney is installing facial recognition software at every ride entrance?  One of the presenters misspoke or something.


Disney knows where every magicband is in the parks. Also, if you have location services and bluetooth enabled in the app, it uses that to "optimize your day." 


I usually have 5-6 different people's magicbands, so this might be interesting on our next visit...


----------



## Violetspider

AnnaKristoff2013 said:


> You’re misunderstanding something I think or they are not explaining it correctly.  How could Genie know what you rode using a standby line?


They are talking about the free Genie itinerary portion, not Genie+. The Genie app can make you an itinerary to follow, so if you get on the ride earlier than what the itinerary suggested, then that ride will be erased from the itinerary. It will be like checking off that box. If you got a LL pass through G+ but ride the same ride via stand by prior to you reservation time, your G+ reservation will absolutely *not* be erased.


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

persnickity2020 said:


> This is so frustrating, it took time to come to terms with having to pay for this at all (we're going during a busy week, so our choices are probably to pay for a couple of days G+ or have a miserable $10K vacation). Then they leaked that we can't book re-rides, even in parks with very few choices, and I had to come to terms with that and plan around it. And now this nonsense, where they will take away a ride you are paying extra for because you stood in line for it once already??
> 
> We have sunk costs in this trip, but they are not ALL sunk costs. If this one is accurate, they are about to make considerably less money on our trip. Instead of throwing money at them to make our trip "worth it", I will cut every corner I can to make it a better value.


Everyone needs to calm down on this one.  


dawnball said:


> Disney knows where every magicband is in the parks. Also, if you have location services and bluetooth enabled in the app, it uses that to "optimize your day."
> 
> 
> I usually have 5-6 different people's magicbands, so this might be interesting on our next visit...


It would be trivially easy to defeat this system by not using magicbands and disabling location services on your phone while on line though.  Again, this is just not accurate information, it’s not possible.


----------



## lanejudy

Violetspider said:


> They are talking about the free Genie itinerary portion, not Genie+. The Genie app can make you an itinerary to follow, so if you get on the ride earlier than what the itinerary suggested, then that ride will be erased from the itinerary. It will be like checking off that box. If you got a LL pass through G+ but ride the same ride via stand by prior to you reservation time, your G+ reservation will absolutely *not* be erased.


This makes more sense!


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

Violetspider said:


> They are talking about the free Genie itinerary portion, not Genie+. The Genie app can make you an itinerary to follow, so if you get on the ride earlier than what the itinerary suggested, then that ride will be erased from the itinerary. It will be like checking off that box. If you got a LL pass through G+ but ride the same ride via stand by prior to you reservation time, your G+ reservation will absolutely *not* be erased.


Well that makes a lot more sense.


----------



## persnickity2020

Violetspider said:


> They are talking about the free Genie itinerary portion, not Genie+. The Genie app can make you an itinerary to follow, so if you get on the ride earlier than what the itinerary suggested, then that ride will be erased from the itinerary. It will be like checking off that box. If you got a LL pass through G+ but ride the same ride via stand by prior to you reservation time, your G+ reservation will absolutely *not* be erased.



OK, that makes sense. Whew.  I don't think we're likely to be using their itinerary planner anyway.


----------



## Violetspider

AnnaKristoff2013 said:


> Everyone needs to calm down on this one.
> 
> It would be trivially easy to defeat this system by not using magicbands and disabling location services on your phone while on line though.  Again, this is just not accurate information, it’s not possible.


Yes, please read my post above. They were not referring to G+ at all. Just the free Genie itinerary function of the app.


----------



## persnickity2020

AnnaKristoff2013 said:


> Everyone needs to calm down on this one.



I did that on my own, thanks.


----------



## dawnball

AnnaKristoff2013 said:


> Everyone needs to calm down on this one.
> 
> It would be trivially easy to defeat this system by not using magicbands and disabling location services on your phone while on line though.  Again, this is just not accurate information, it’s not possible.


Well, yes. If DIsney were planning this (which I agree is exceedingly unlikely), you could just turn off location services and not use magic bands. But, Disney IS collecting massive amounts of data via magic bands, location services and the new Genie service. They're said that they used that data to train Genie, and to decide what makes LL viable without limiting sales.


(completely off topic, I wonder if anyone has asked for all their data from Disney. That might be fascinating to poke through. )


----------



## CWTC

So, we have zero interest in using free Genie:  we have no need for an itinerary.  We do have interest in G+ for LL access.  I’ve watched the YouTube videos and what not but can’t find an answer. I don’t want to click our must do’s, likes, dislike, etc. I just want to see LL availability.  Can I see that without making some stupid itinerary that I have no interest in using?


----------



## Tiggerontheseas

Violetspider said:


> They are talking about the free Genie itinerary portion, not Genie+. The Genie app can make you an itinerary to follow, so if you get on the ride earlier than what the itinerary suggested, then that ride will be erased from the itinerary. It will be like checking off that box. If you got a LL pass through G+ but ride the same ride via stand by prior to you reservation time, your G+ reservation will absolutely *not* be erased.



Ah....got it.  I just figured he was wrong because I missed him say itinerary and when he said it was unfair because 'what if you wanted to ride it twice?', I didn't even consider that was what he meant.  Because it's not like you can't ignore the itinerary Genie has laid out for you and ride it twice anyway.


----------



## shawthorne44

I fully trust the explanation that it will be erased that the erasing is on free Genie.   Butttttt, I don't really trust Disney.  I give it a 1% chance that this is a stupid thing Disney would do.

The only reason I hadn't bought MB's yet is because I was waiting on a final decision from daughter. But, lets say that Disney did this. The ticket card would completely thwart that. I've made our smart phones a bit dim for security reasons so Magic Mobile won't be on our phones, and location is always off.   I'll hold off until later next week to buy the bands.


----------



## Disturbia

If it’s just Genie (free) then that’s good.  I’m still trying to understand the system.  We are looking at buying genie+ and riding big Thunder so when the erasing comment was made that’s what my mind went to, I can’t wait and ride and ride with genie; I remember him saying something about people paying for it, I have to rewatch

In the big scheme of things though, we rarely did repeats and by limiting people it works for those of us that don’t rope drop


----------



## Disturbia

I still don’t understand how you have a LL reservation without paying for genie+; you only get suggestions to ride standby with the free portion?


----------



## Violetspider

Disturbia said:


> I still don’t understand how you have a LL reservation without paying for genie+; you only get suggestions to ride standby with the free portion?


It's not a reservation, it's a suggested itinerary to follow using the Stand by queues. Genie is just trying to "help" you by suggesting the best time to ride for the shortest wait time based on your desires (what you told Genie was your must do items).


----------



## Figment1990

Violetspider said:


> They are talking about the free Genie itinerary portion, not Genie+. The Genie app can make you an itinerary to follow, so if you get on the ride earlier than what the itinerary suggested, then that ride will be erased from the itinerary. It will be like checking off that box. If you got a LL pass through G+ but ride the same ride via stand by prior to you reservation time, your G+ reservation will absolutely *not* be erased.


Thank you so so so much for clarifying that.


----------



## Violetspider

Figment1990 said:


> Thank you so so so much for clarifying that.


My pleasure! Things were spiraling off the deep end so I just listened very carefully to that portion of the video again and figured out what they were actually talking about. She was definitely describing how the free Genie portion of the app worked. Genie+ quickly came into the discussion following that, which is where the confusion came from.


----------



## Disturbia

So I don’t have access to LL with genie (free)


----------



## Violetspider

Disturbia said:


> So I don’t have access to LL with genie (free)


Nope, that would be G+ for $15 for the day.


----------



## AndreaA

Realized this belongs elsewhere!


----------



## MainMom

Disturbia said:


> I’m watching Dis unplugged and it was said that if you have a pass later and you just rode the same ride, genie knows what you’re doing and will erase that pass!!!!
> 
> so I can’t come in during resort guest early entry and ride the ride that I have my first genie+ for



What! That’s ridiculous!


----------



## Disturbia

MainMom said:


> What! That’s ridiculous!


I think that was just the itinerary generated with the free genie (suggestions); not the purchased genie+


----------



## MainMom

Disturbia said:


> I think that was just the itinerary generated with the free genie (suggestions); not the purchased genie+


I just read the remainder of the posts. Phew!


----------



## MainMom

CWTC said:


> So, we have zero interest in using free Genie:  we have no need for an itinerary.  We do have interest in G+ for LL access.  I’ve watched the YouTube videos and what not but can’t find an answer. I don’t want to click our must do’s, likes, dislike, etc. I just want to see LL availability.  Can I see that without making some stupid itinerary that I have no interest in using?


I’m curious about this also. I don’t need an itinerary or Disney only showing me certain things.


----------



## nurseberta

Disturbia said:


> I’m watching Dis unplugged and it was said that if you have a pass later and you just rode the same ride, genie knows what you’re doing and will erase that pass!!!!
> 
> so I can’t come in during resort guest early entry and ride the ride that I have my first genie+ for



WHAT??? That is ridiculous!! So you can’t wait in the standby line and ride twice? What sense does that make?


----------



## DL1WDW2

Does anybody have the LL explanation that does not detail over 3000 comments ? I just want to zoom in and out and not take a test afterwards.
I don’t plan to bring a cellphone anyway…


----------



## DL1WDW2

dawnball said:


> Well, yes. If DIsney were planning this (which I agree is exceedingly unlikely), you could just turn off location services and not use magic bands. But, Disney IS collecting massive amounts of data via magic bands, location services and the new Genie service. They're said that they used that data to train Genie, and to decide what makes LL viable without limiting sales.
> 
> 
> (completely off topic, I wonder if anyone has asked for all their data from Disney. That might be fascinating to poke through. )


I think they are training us … currently we will need to learn to access the dining reservations during the downtime Cause Genie needs access to us during the $$$ big money time. So look for dining in the early morns and later at night unless Genie is still counting the $$$ it made for the day.
 That might take a while… cause it sounds like they need a lot of money to justify giving us Genie for Free


----------



## elgerber

Disturbia said:


> I’m watching Dis unplugged and it was said that if you have a pass later and you just rode the same ride, genie knows what you’re doing and will erase that pass!!!!
> 
> so I can’t come in during resort guest early entry and ride the ride that I have my first genie+ for


Perhaps you could edit this post, so people don't come her all night and freak out before reading the explanation a couple of pages later?


----------



## cjlong88

DL1WDW2 said:


> Does anybody have the LL explanation that does not detail over 3000 comments ? I just want to zoom in and out and not take a test afterwards.
> I don’t plan to bring a cellphone anyway…



*Genie+ (G+)*
1) Gives you access to the Lightning Lane for 40-ish attractions throughout WDW
2) Costs $15 per person per day to use
3) You can book one LL at a time
4) You can book your next LL after using your current one OR after two hours have passed, whichever occurs first
5) You will only be able to book a LL for each ride only one time. So if you want to re-ride a specific attraction and you have already used LL for that attraction, then you need to wait in the standby line.


*Individual Lightning Lane Selections (ILLS)*
1) There are *eight* attractions not included with G+ (FoP, Everest, 7DMT, Space, RotR, MMRR, FEA, Remy)
2) To use the LL for these rides, you must purchase access seperately
3) The price to skip the line will vary based on many factors (i.e. surge pricing)
4) You may purchase up to two of these each day
5) You do not need to have G+ to use ILLS


*Options*
1) Use G+ only
2) Use ILLS only
3) Use both G+ and ILLS
4) Use neither and wait in the standby line


----------



## Disturbia

elgerber said:


> Perhaps you could edit this post, so people don't come her all night and freak out before reading the explanation a couple of pages later?



will do


----------



## lanejudy

cjlong88 said:


> 1) There are *six* attractions not included with G+ (FoP, Everest, 7DMT, Space, RotR, MMRR, FEA, Remy)


Eight


----------



## cjlong88

lanejudy said:


> Eight


Fixed!


----------



## deltadisney

Sorry if asked - but does anyone know if Genie+ will allow you to select a later time for your first ride?  For example, if I wanted to sleep in and park hop to HS after first going to MK, could I pick SDD as my first ride and force a post 2:00 ride time or do I have to take the time it tells me to take?


----------



## Disturbia

Also, genie+ limit is 8 attractions (I think that’s per day even if you hop?)


----------



## Ariel620

Disturbia said:


> Also, genie+ limit is 8 attractions (I think that’s per day even if you hop?)



Where do you get that info?  If you book one as soon as you enter the que, I can see using way more than 8 some days (at MK at least).


----------



## snikki

Disturbia said:


> Also, genie+ limit is 8 attractions (I think that’s per day even if you hop?)



Oh they are really going to piss people off.


----------



## Disturbia

I already caused a panic earlier, so I’ll leave it to someone else to verify


----------



## Ariel620

Disturbia said:


> I already caused a panic earlier, so I’ll leave it to someone else to verify


Verify from where?  Where did you see it?


----------



## cfw213

The 8 attraction thing is for genie, not Genie+

I love dis unplugged but they seemed to use “genie” and “genie+“ interchangeably and it’s very confusing. The AllEars video is very straightforward and easy to understand


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## Disturbia

I thought it was for Genie+.  The info was again from Dis unplugged video.  They said the limit was 8 (at 35 mins) for Genie+  Correct me if I’m wrong (hopefully I’m wrong)


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## Disturbia

They could have easily confused genie itinerary and genie+ also (like I did earlier)

I know 8 is the number of attractions you select for genie itinerary (free). They seem to suggest it’s the max number of rides per day using genie+

also you can’t reoptimize genie+ (But can reoptimize genie) If you miss your attraction (They are hoping for wiggle room, but we’re told no)

Edit:  Molly’s (allears) video confirms that there will be an anytime pass (restricted) if a ride goes down due to weather


----------



## Grumpy by Birth

katyringo said:


> ... it's not skirting the rules if Disney lets it happens- it's maximizing the system they give you.


It's a long-standing tradition here on the DIS to characterize maximizing any system they give us as "selfishly abusing the system by using loopholes at the expense of others."  Goes all the back to legacy FP (and probably even before that).


----------



## katyringo

Grumpy by Birth said:


> It's a long-standing tradition here on the DIS to characterize maximizing any system they give us as "selfishly abusing the system by using loopholes at the expense of others."  Goes all the back to legacy FP (and probably even before that).



well.. thats dumb.


----------



## yellowfish78

RamieGee said:


> After trying my best not to worry about this Genie+ thing since the rumors started, I am now all riled up again.  Just got an email from my TA asking if we want to add Genie+ to our package for our trip starting on 10/30.  That brought all the feelings.
> 
> There's a real bait-and-switch aspect for those of us traveling over the next month or so.  2 1/2 weeks out I'm committed to this vacation - my kids are over the moon excited, I've made arrangements with work/school, I've paid Disney an exorbitant amount for my package, airfare is paid for, park reservations made, transportation is booked.  And now a system they are suddenly putting in place could potentially significantly change the experience I was expecting when I booked this trip (maybe for the worse if it changes stand-by times beyond what they were historically).  We are in the parks 7 days, and for my family of 5, it could potentially cost an additional $1,000 to have the experience I was expecting when I committed to this trip (depending on what is needed with Genie+ and ILL$ not to wait in hours and hours of lines).  2 1/2 WEEKS OUT and there's a surprise potential $500-$1,000 added to my trip.  For an experience with so many unknowns.
> 
> I was planning this trip for several years, cancelled and re-booked a year ago, and really needed this vacation after a pretty crappy 2 years.  And now I feel the pressure that if I don't cough up $500-$1000 more, it might end up being a frustrating trip of long lines and missed rides we were all looking forward. And we don't go frequently at all. These are "big" trips for us.
> 
> I'm so disappointed in Disney.  To put it lightly, because this is a public forum and I'm a lady.  Sigh.  That's all.  That's the rant.


Side note that you do NOT have to add it to your package. If you add it to your package it’s based on ticket length and you can add up to 1 day prior arrival.
But can buy individual days once at your resort the morning of. It will NEVER sell out, so you always have the option to buy that morning (after 1201am actually). 
Either way it’s more money; just don’t feel like you need to commit right away. Lol


----------



## yellowfish78

This was also helpful determining the difference between Genie and Genie+.


----------



## ZeeWP

Bibbobboo2u said:


> Here is a link to her Genie video: (She calls ILL$ rides "Fancy Rides".)


That bit with the cue cards had me LOL'ing


----------



## Grumpy by Birth

katyringo said:


> well.. thats dumb.


Dumb that people call it abuse?  Or that my comment is dumb?   

I direct your attention to the Great FP War of 2012 as exhibit A.


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## Disturbia

Even if there is a limit to genie+, you can still ride some rides standby (little mermaid, magic carpets; rides which don’t need a fastpass).  I think by putting a limit it makes everyone’s standby times better.


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## katyringo

Grumpy by Birth said:


> Dumb that people call it abuse?  Or that my comment is dumb?
> 
> I direct your attention to the Great FP War of 2012 as exhibit A.


 Dumb that people call it abuse.


----------



## CBMom01

Disturbia said:


> Even if there is a limit to genie+, you can still ride some rides standby (little mermaid, magic carpets; rides which don’t need a fastpass).  I think by putting a limit it makes everyone’s standby times better.


Totally agree with this. Also, if I don’t want to get up at 7 then I take what comes as the day goes on.
The more I think of this the more I believe it will help with managing crowds


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## masupo

katyringo said:


> Dumb that people call it abuse.



To enhance the ridiculousness, I saw a preemptive accusation of "abuse" already being tossed out in this thread.


----------



## Disturbia

https://www.wdwinfo.com/news-storie...ney-world-oct-19-weve-got-all-of-the-details/


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## Disturbia

https://insidethemagic.net/2021/10/...ne-at-disney-world-full-attractions-list-ba1/
This has a screenshot of the app.  I think it will be a maximum of 8 selections for Genie+; Genie+ just gives you access to LL but it’s built on the same basic system it seems? (some rides like Astro Orbiter don’t have LL).  The ‘one selection at a time’ is throwing me off.  I would think I could ride more than 8

Hopefully someone who got a preview can verify this.


----------



## gharter

I am sort of looking forward to seeing how this works during our trip.
It greatly worries me that Disney (according to the Dis unplugged) believes that doing 4 attractions a day is a success.  At MK, using the old FP+ system, we would get 12+ FPs ( a best of 16 in one day)  for the day.  Other parks not as much as they don't have as many attractions.
I am also concerned that I can now only get 1 LL pass for each attraction.  After that, it is going in the standby line.  considering you are now paying for this, it seem like a downgrade.
We are there next week, maybe after using Genie+ I'll feel different, but it just seems like more money for a less experience.


----------



## Violetspider

Disturbia said:


> https://insidethemagic.net/2021/10/...ne-at-disney-world-full-attractions-list-ba1/
> This has a screenshot of the app.  I think it will be a maximum of 8 selections for Genie+; Genie+ just gives you access to LL but it’s built on the same basic system it seems? (some rides like Astro Orbiter don’t have LL).  The ‘one selection at a time’ is throwing me off.  I would think I could ride more than 8
> 
> Hopefully someone who got a preview can verify this.


No, 8 is just the number of attractions you're able to tell "free" Genie are your Top Picks or Must Do rides. Genie then tries to optimize your experience by getting you to all 8 of those rides with the least amount of walking and/or wait times (no money required). The ITM website just choose very poor placement of that particular photo. In fact, they shouldn't have used that photo at all. It's misleading when talking about G+.

Genie+ will allow you to ride every G+ attraction in the park one time if possible. So for MK that's 17 attractions. Will you actually be able to get on all 17, not likely. If wait times are really low and you can go on one ride after another, because as soon as you scan into a ride you can grab your next reservation, you could conceivably get on a decent portion of those 17. Your more likely to get on all the rides at Epcot (9) or Animal Kingdom (8). Hollywood Studios at 12 G+ attractions may also be a possibility but the timing between reservations would have to be rather tight. One can dream!


----------



## rpfennig

gharter said:


> It greatly worries me that Disney (according to the Dis unplugged) believes that doing 4 attractions a day is a success. At MK, using the old FP+ system, we would get 12+ FPs ( a best of 16 in one day) for the day. Other parks not as much as they don't have as many attractions.



I suspect the majority of people only ever used their standard 3 fast passes and if you were "in the know" you could stack some serious numbers (heartfelt clap for the 16 on one day, get that man a drink). If they keep the same pool of fast passes/fast lanes/lightning passes/lightning lanes I wonder what that number is. Is it park capacity x 3 with a buffer? Or is it a ride throughput calculation with 7-8 fast passes per 2-3 standby guests? If the former, that's roughly 240-300K available lightning lanes a day if MK capacity is 80-100K. If 20K people a day buy Genie+ that's a pretty good ratio of 12-15 rides and the experience for standby riders would be similar to fast pass days (minus the people in standby having any fast passes, so less good for them). Bump that up to 30K Genie+ users and it drops to 8-10 rides. I suspect even with that number of fast passes the actual count will be lower due to a variation of breakage (not all lightning lanes for all time slots will be picked... I'm looking at you Magic Carpets of Aladdin) and physical/temporal limitations (distance between, length of rides/shows). Then again, whatever the pool of fast passes was, the pool of lightning lanes will probably be slightly less if you pull out the ones related to the a la crate (I'll give you this one spellcheck cause it makes me smile) rides like Space Mountain and 7DMT. Basically a long winded way of saying, I'll be curious to see how many lightning lanes end up being the average and is it >3 enough that people are happy with their purchase. 

That and we need a lightning lane race day for maximum number of lightning lanes. Do you stick to one park like MK and try and do everything there? Or start in MK for quantity and skip the longer rides and park hop to Epcot to scoop up some more shorter rides? These are the important question our most precious resource, vloggers will soon answer for us in pithily titled youtube videos sponsored by targeted ads. I joke knowing that I'll be first in line to watch them.


----------



## Bibbobboo2u

ZeeWP said:


> That bit with the cue cards had me LOL'ing


She is very funny.  That’s one of the main reasons I like to watch her videos.


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

Disturbia said:


> Even if there is a limit to genie+, you can still ride some rides standby (little mermaid, magic carpets; rides which don’t need a fastpass).  I think by putting a limit it makes everyone’s standby times better.


I guarantee that Disney isn’t doing it improve people’s standby times.  They don’t give a hoot about that.  They’re doing it to make sure they don’t run out of LL passes during the day so that people don’t complain that they paid $15 and couldn’t get any.  Guest relations is going to be unsympathetic to the argument that people paid $15 and all they could get was dumbo and barnstormer.


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## LSUfan4444

And people thought I was crazy when they said "I'm not going back till they bring back FP" and I said "GO NOW...getting rid of FP+ is the best thing to happen to WDW in decades"

Guys and gals, it was a great and glorious, stress free run with fast moving standby lanes and tons of flexibility and I'm sad to see those days go by.


----------



## Disturbia

AnnaKristoff2013 said:


> I guarantee that Disney isn’t doing it improve people’s standby times.  They don’t give a hoot about that.  They’re doing it to make sure they don’t run out of LL passes during the day so that people don’t complain that they paid $15 and couldn’t get any.  Guest relations is going to be unsympathetic to the argument that people paid $15 and all they could get was dumbo and barnstormer.



That’s why they’re saying Genie+ will never run out. If they space them, you’ll be limited and they can sell to another person.

Without young kids (1 kid over 5)and when we had printed fp we did more than 10 rides a day.  With younger kids we’ve done 6 rides plus 1-2 shows; more if it was an after hours event


----------



## nurseberta

nurseberta said:


> what's this now????





gharter said:


> I am sort of looking forward to seeing how this works during our trip.
> It greatly worries me that Disney (according to the Dis unplugged) believes that doing 4 attractions a day is a success.  At MK, using the old FP+ system, we would get 12+ FPs ( a best of 16 in one day)  for the day.  Other parks not as much as they don't have as many attractions.
> I am also concerned that I can now only get 1 LL pass for each attraction.  After that, it is going in the standby line.  considering you are now paying for this, it seem like a downgrade.
> We are there next week, maybe after using Genie+ I'll feel different, but it just seems like more money for a less experience.




I don't know, maybe I'm drinking the Kool-Aid but I think this new system might work out.  On my last trip in 2019, I really was more anxious about getting FP's as I am typically an open to close get your money's worth type of person. In the moment I felt I was on top of my game as I was dragging family from ride to ride and I def felt like we got very short wait times and took full use of the FP+ system. didn't wait more than 10-15 min which was sometimes the length of walking the queue.  As we were walking onto our scheduled SDMT FP I was hoping for a line to catch my breath and look around.  That didn't happen, so even though I was "winning" in hindsight maybe slowing things down to look around is also a decent way to experience the parks. If I am limited in how and when I get LL access, it leaves me time to enjoy my surroundings instead of working the system? just a thought


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## Disturbia

This past June was a nightmare and on 2 days we only rode 2-3 rides due to waits being 45-60 mins, so for people like us who don’t rope drop and are ok not re-riding much this will work better.  You can still do standby in between.


----------



## snikki

nurseberta said:


> I don't know, maybe I'm drinking the Kool-Aid but I think this new system might work out.  On my last trip in 2019, I really was more anxious about getting FP's as I am typically an open to close get your money's worth type of person. In the moment I felt I was on top of my game as I was dragging family from ride to ride and I def felt like we got very short wait times and took full use of the FP+ system. didn't wait more than 10-15 min which was sometimes the length of walking the queue.  As we were walking onto our scheduled SDMT FP I was hoping for a line to catch my breath and look around.  That didn't happen, so even though I was "winning" in hindsight maybe slowing things down to look around is also a decent way to experience the parks. If I am limited in how and when I get LL access, it leaves me time to enjoy my surroundings instead of working the system? just a thought



I think it’ll work fine too. 99% of Disney vacationers are average guests. They aren’t Uber planners or on message boards trying to find the best way to maximize the system. IF they purchase G+ they’ll get some LL, use them as they go about their day and most of them will be happy with it. I think a good percentage won’t even pay for it and there will be some who buy it and barely use it.

I was one of those that booked their 3 FP+, usually in the evening (quality over quantity for me), and rarely pulled additional ones. We still rode our favorites multiple times, rode everything we wanted to and never waited more than 20 minutes. I think I’ll still be able to accomplish everything I want with ILL and maybe G+ a day or two.


----------



## Disturbia

Violetspider said:


> No, 8 is just the number of attractions you're able to tell "free" Genie are your Top Picks or Must Do rides. Genie then tries to optimize your experience by getting you to all 8 of those rides with the least amount of walking and/or wait times (no money required). The ITM website just choose very poor placement of that particular photo. In fact, they shouldn't have used that photo at all. It's misleading when talking about G+.
> 
> Genie+ will allow you to ride every G+ attraction in the park one time if possible. So for MK that's 17 attractions. Will you actually be able to get on all 17, not likely. If wait times are really low and you can go on one ride after another, because as soon as you scan into a ride you can grab your next reservation, you could conceivably get on a decent portion of those 17. Your more likely to get on all the rides at Epcot (9) or Animal Kingdom (8). Hollywood Studios at 12 G+ attractions may also be a possibility but the timing between reservations would have to be rather tight. One can dream!


That’s what Molly’s (allears) seemed to allude to.  Thanks for clarifying.

She also said you can re-ride standby after riding with genie+ (but didn’t clarify what happens if you ride earlier than the genie+ pass; I guess we need to really see this in real time; however, if the wait was that low (thinking extra am hrs) that I would ride a ride standby during magic morning I don’t need genie+ and can re-ride standby)


----------



## snikki

Once reports are released we may see that getting up at 7 am to book LL may not even be necessary depending on how you do the parks.

I have never seen the benefit in an 8 am or 9 am FP or LL. We would never start our FP+ before 12 (but usually not before 4 pm) anyway. With legacy FP you pulled them early in the morning because you could use them at any time. But with this system you must use them in the allotted time. How much time is an 8 am or 9 am LL going to save you? I know everyone has different strategies for what works for their families.


----------



## Disturbia

Same here, some days our teen would go with one parent to rope drop and the rest of the party would join for Evening fastpasses only.  With rider switch, we were stuck at each ride for 2 hours as times were artificially inflated (15-30 mins).

We even had one CM add the standby time to rider switch on FOP (while using Fast Pass) once (arguing was futile, so we took a break), but most only added 30-40 mins to the start of rider switch. 

SDMT took a fast pass away while rider switching with a standby. We had evening FP+ and in the am we did standby and they erased evening FP+, hence I wouldn’t be surprised if they do that with genie+ (people would be really mad if they paid for it).


----------



## MainMom

snikki said:


> Once reports are released we may see that getting up at 7 am to book LL may not even be necessary depending on how you do the parks.
> 
> I have never seen the benefit in an 8 am or 9 am FP or LL. We would never start our FP+ before 12 (but usually not before 3-4) anyway. With legacy FP you pulled them early in the morning because you could use them at any time. But with this system you must use them in the allotted time. How much time is an 8 am or 9 am LL going to save you? I know everyone has different strategies for what works for their families.


This is what I need to figure out. We have always utilized the first hour or 2 to our advantage with shorter waits and saved FP for late morning.


----------



## Disturbia

This is one thread where it was said rider switch wouldn’t be issued if you have a fast pass later in the day

https://www.disboards.com/threads/recent-reports-on-rider-switch.3781597/#post-61321107


----------



## RamieGee

yellowfish78 said:


> Side note that you do NOT have to add it to your package. If you add it to your package it’s based on ticket length and you can add up to 1 day prior arrival.
> But can buy individual days once at your resort the morning of. It will NEVER sell out, so you always have the option to buy that morning (after 1201am actually).
> Either way it’s more money; just don’t feel like you need to commit right away. Lol


Thank you! Yes, that is the plan and what we told the TA. I guess it was just her email pointing out that this thing would be live during our visit that was triggering (I knew already, but it made it “real”). I had to have too much in depth strategic discussion with the other family we are traveling with on the pros/cons and mostly “WHAT IFs”. It’s frustrating & exhausting (I had the previous system mastered). We’re just blind guinea pigs and it’s not fair since we paid Disney the full balance of our trip and then they throw a system at us whose rules and impact is unknown. Sigh.


----------



## Jrb1979

MainMom said:


> This is what I need to figure out. We have always utilized the first hour or 2 to our advantage with shorter waits and saved FP for late morning.


Since you are paying for Genie+ I wouldn't be saving any for later. I would use as much as possible, even if the Standby is 15 minutes


----------



## Disturbia

Molly also indicated that we should book LL earlier (and genie+) so if any issues arise (weather, ride breakdown etc) you can be issued something like a bonus pass


----------



## snikki

I got an email from my TA regarding G+. Very informative. Two points that stick out to me since these two questions were asked on this thread:

Can Individual Attraction Selections be made at more than one park?

Yes, if you have park hopper tickets you can make your first selection at one park and your second selection at another park. These two selections can be made at the same time.


Can I have a selection with Disney Genie+, Individual Attraction Selections and a virtual queue at the same time?

Yes, you can since these are separate components.


----------



## Disturbia

snikki said:


> I got an email from my TA regarding G+. Very informative. Two points that stick out to me since these two questions were asked on this thread:
> 
> Can Individual Attraction Selections be made at more than one park?
> 
> Yes, if you have park hopper tickets you can make your first selection at one park and your second selection at another park. These two selections can be made at the same time.
> 
> 
> Can I have a selection with Disney Genie+, Individual Attraction Selections and a virtual queue at the same time?
> 
> Yes, you can since these are separate components.


Molly’s video did indicate you can virtual queue and pay LLIA for Remy.

Genie+ won’t allow a selection close to a LLIA or dining and virtual queue you have no control over but you can’t Genie+ Remy, so those won’t conflict.  I’m not sure anything can be booked at the same time.


----------



## yellowfish78

snikki said:


> I got an email from my TA regarding G+. Very informative. Two points that stick out to me since these two questions were asked on this thread:
> 
> Can Individual Attraction Selections be made at more than one park?
> 
> Yes, if you have park hopper tickets you can make your first selection at one park and your second selection at another park. These two selections can be made at the same time.
> 
> 
> Can I have a selection with Disney Genie+, Individual Attraction Selections and a virtual queue at the same time?
> 
> Yes, you can since these are separate components.


I agree with your second question since all 3 of those are "separate products" with Disney - Genie+, paid LL ride, and VQ.  

As for your first question, I didn't get that from Disney's TA webinar this week... I heard it as "you can plan for two parks" not "make a LL selection for each park".  I still think that your LL selection will be one at a time.


----------



## Disturbia

yellowfish78 said:


> I agree with your second question since all 3 of those are "separate products" with Disney - Genie+, paid LL ride, and VQ.
> 
> As for your first question, I didn't get that from Disney's TA webinar this week... I heard it as "you can plan for two parks" not "make a LL selection for each park".  I still think that your LL selection will be one at a time.


I don’t see why this would be a problem.  if you have park hoppers, you can book a *LLIA* 12 pm SDMT and a 6 pm Remy at 7 am (Subject to availability; Max of 2 per day).


----------



## gharter

MainMom said:


> This is what I need to figure out. We have always utilized the first hour or 2 to our advantage with shorter waits and saved FP for late morning.


We did similar.  First FP was usually about 2 hours after the park opened when it started to get crowded.


----------



## yellowfish78

k


Disturbia said:


> I don’t see why this would be a problem.  if you have park hoppers, you can book a 12 pm SDMT and a 6 pm Remy at 7 am (Subject to availability).


Correct, because this is your two *paid* LL.  If you wanted two rides that are included in G+ across two parks, then no.

ETA: sorry. I'm still confused with names of things.  I see it now says individual ride selections.


----------



## snikki

I think Disney would prefer you buy the two ILL before been hitting the park. What if you arrive before purchasing and the wait is 15 minutes and you decide not to buy it? Makes more sense for them to let you buy it earlier in the day, across two parks, and get your money upfront since there’s no refunds.


----------



## Disturbia

yellowfish78 said:


> k
> 
> Correct, because this is your two *paid* LL.  If you wanted two rides that are included in G+ across two parks, then no.
> 
> ETA: sorry. I'm still confused with names of things.  I see it now says individual ride selections.


I’ll modify my post to reduce confusion


----------



## thptrek

We start our vacation on the 19th at AK. Really looking forward to this new system (if it doesn't crash). Stacking Genie+ LL rides one after another all day and adding in paying for LL$ rides should really reduce the amount of wait we do. We will grab our first Genie+ at 7am, another at 9am, and just keep going all day. I really don't see an issue here.


----------



## Disturbia

snikki said:


> I think Disney would prefer you buy the two ILL before been hitting the park. What if you arrive before purchasing and the wait is 15 minutes and you decide not to buy it? Makes more sense for them to let you buy it earlier in the day, across two parks, and get your money upfront since there’s no refunds.



I don’t see SDMT ever being that low in the afternoon; we could get lucky with Remy (fast loading) at park close.  I’d have to pay for 4 people each time (approx $40 each ride) to reduce the uncertainy.


----------



## snikki

I don’t see them allowing stacking before or at park open. If you make a 9-10 am LL at 7 am I don’t think you’ll be allowed to make another LL until you use that first LL. I don’t think the 120 minute rule will apply here.


----------



## shawthorne44

snikki said:


> I have never seen the benefit in an 8 am or 9 am FP or LL. We would never start our FP+ before 12 (but usually not before 4 pm) anyway.



This is why I don't understand the anger at early-morning people that someone expressed earlier.   The idea seemed to be that the early morning people will gobble up all the slots "just to get one more ride" and then ruin it for everyone.  When really the early morning people, will be using their G+ slots when the waits are lower leaving the later times for other people.


----------



## Disturbia

snikki said:


> I don’t see them allowing stacking before or at park open. If you make a 9-10 am LL at 7 am I don’t think you’ll be allowed to make another LL until you use that first LL. I don’t think the 120 minute rule will apply here.


I think Epcot is where we will see stacking due to late opening, but there are very few rides that truly need genie+ (Test track & Soarin) and you have VQ for Remy.


----------



## Disturbia

I would actually like the booking to be at 8 am for Epcot instead of stacking.  

Also, if you’re park hopping to Epcot, you can’t get a virtual queue for Remy unless Epcot was your first park.


----------



## yellowfish78

Nothing was mentioned about getting a LL selection every two hours in the TA call...did I miss the Disney announcement on that?


----------



## Jrb1979

Disturbia said:


> I think Epcot is where we will see stacking due to late opening, but there are very few rides that truly need genie+ (Test track & Soarin) and you have VQ for Remy.


I doubt it will work at Epcot either. I have this feeling that the 120 minute rule will only apply once in the park. You probably won't be able to stack til you get in the park.


----------



## Disturbia

I think Disney should really hire some critics like us who dissect until infinity whatever they throw at us.  

Thank goodness they allowed a preview so we can calm down a bit before we have our indivual freak outs in the parks


----------



## DisneyFive

LSUfan4444 said:


> And people thought I was crazy when they said "I'm not going back till they bring back FP" and I said "GO NOW...getting rid of FP+ is the best thing to happen to WDW in decades"
> 
> Guys and gals, it was a great and glorious, stress free run with fast moving standby lanes and tons of flexibility and I'm sad to see those days go by.



That certainly was not the case late July/early August. Standby lines were very long in general. We needed to get up way earlier than we ever had to before just to get one or two headliners in before the crowds built. We had much less time to enjoy the parks and just browse the atmosphere because we were standing in lines much more of our day and we rode significantly fewer attractions in general (not by choice). I would gladly take FP+ back over G+, but G+ will be an improvement over what we experienced this summer I am sure of that.

Dan


----------



## Bibbobboo2u

[


snikki said:


> I don’t see them allowing stacking before or at park open. If you make a 9-10 am LL at 7 am I don’t think you’ll be allowed to make another LL until you use that first LL. I don’t think the 120 minute rule will apply here.


i agree.  The LL choices are going to be tricky because you have to decide if you want to take that next available ride or risk being able to get it later if that’s what you would prefer.  I also think it might “dilute” my ability to get LLs I really want if I load in 8 want-to-do rides when there are 6 must-haves  on our list.  I am concerned the app will return 6 thru-out the day and they won’t be my top 6 if I load 8.   Overthinking…


----------



## AnnabelleTheTalkingTree

yellowfish78 said:


> Nothing was mentioned about getting a LL selection every two hours in the TA call...did I miss the Disney announcement on that?



I was under the assumption that Genie+ could be only every two hours until someone here pointed me over to the video from Molly. I watched and rewatched and my understanding based on that is that your next Genie+ reservation can be made as soon as you check into your current attraction, and that the next reservation does NOT have to be two hours away as long as you've checked in. I still don't trust any of this info until I see it in practice next week.


----------



## Bibbobboo2u

Disturbia said:


> Thank goodness they allowed a preview so we can calm down a bit before we have our indivual freak outs in the parks


Oh my in-park freak-out is coming - 10/19 at HWS!


----------



## Disturbia

Bibbobboo2u said:


> Oh my in-park freak-out is coming - 10/19 at HWS!


I will have 2 battery backups.  Also, I don’t know if clearing the safari history made things worse last Nov as I couldn’t mobile order and I got the spinning sign when I tried for ROTR BG at 1 pm.  MDE app kept logging me out, at home it doesn’t do that.  I am expecting the app to crash every morning of our trip in less than 3 weeks.

I would have the person who doesn’t have all the MDE history try booking from their phone.  My MDE (safari) wouldn’t load payment info for a dessert party yesterday (the payment section was blank; couldn’t scroll to enter credit card) so I had to refresh and keep going back to payment screen, saw Donald (access unavailable) still never worked on iPad (25 mins); worked finally when I searched 4 times with the MDE app (logged me out; had to enter code sent to email) and payment was populated.  I was paying over $350 for this


----------



## elgerber

Bibbobboo2u said:


> Oh my in-park freak-out is coming - 10/19 at HWS!


mine too, at Epcot!


----------



## Disturbia

You all are taking one for the team.  Good luck!


----------



## MainMom

Jrb1979 said:


> Since you are paying for Genie+ I wouldn't be saving any for later. I would use as much as possible, even if the Standby is 15 minutes


Yes. Because otherwise I’m not going to feel like I’m getting my money’s worth. I’ve never been one of those types of people, but for this I’m feeling differently about it.


----------



## Marionnette

thptrek said:


> We start our vacation on the 19th at AK. Really looking forward to this new system (if it doesn't crash). Stacking Genie+ LL rides one after another all day and adding in paying for LL$ rides should really reduce the amount of wait we do. We will grab our first Genie+ at 7am, another at 9am, and just keep going all day. I really don't see an issue here.


Do you have park hoppers? You're limited to only one G+ reservation per attraction, per day. AK has only 8 G+ attractions (3 of which are shows that never required a FP) and then the two IIL$ attractions. I think that you might find it difficult to just keep going all day at AK (or Epcot for that matter) unless you hop another park or re-ride your favorites using standby.


----------



## snikki

MainMom said:


> This is what I need to figure out. We have always utilized the first hour or 2 to our advantage with shorter waits and saved FP for late morning.



I’ve thought about skipping G+ most days and doing ILL in the evening each day instead. We basically did that with FP+. We set them for the evenings most days, rarely got extras and rode standby the rest of the day. It worked great for us. I’ll wait and see the reviews and then decide.


----------



## salisboss

Question for the group. As I understand if you purchase Genie+ it is for everyone in the party for the day. What about individual Lightning Lane rides? For example my wife doesn't do roller coasters so for 7DMT or something it would just be my daughter and I. Can we only buy the lightning lane access for the two of us?


----------



## scrappinginontario

salisboss said:


> Question for the group. As I understand if you purchase Genie+ it is for everyone in the party for the day. What about individual Lightning Lane rides? For example my wife doesn't do roller coasters so for 7DMT or something it would just be my daughter and I. Can we only buy the lightning lane access for the two of us?


Your question has been merged with the Genie Announcement thread.


----------



## emilymad

snikki said:


> I’ve thought about skipping G+ most days and doing ILL in the evening each day instead. We basically did that with FP+. We set them for the evenings most days, rarely got extras and rode standby the rest of the day. It worked great for us. I’ll wait and see the reviews and then decide.



This is what we are thinking as well.  We might get G+ for MK or maybe on a day we park hop but that's it.  We do rope drop and then take a break before going back to the park in the evenings.  I don't want to be refreshing my phone to just get LL at the right time in the evenings.

We used MP when we were in DL and hated it so we know G+ most likely won't work with how we vacation.


----------



## Bibbobboo2u

Disturbia said:


> I will have 2 battery backups.  Also, I don’t know if clearing the safari history made things worse last Nov as I couldn’t mobile order and I got the spinning sign when I tried for ROTR BG at 1 pm.  MDE app kept logging me out, at home it doesn’t do that.  I am expecting the app to crash every morning of our trip in less than 3 weeks.
> 
> I would have the person who doesn’t have all the MDE history try booking from their phone.  My MDE (safari) wouldn’t load payment info for a dessert party yesterday (the payment section was blank; couldn’t scroll to enter credit card) so I had to refresh and keep going back to payment screen, saw Donald (access unavailable) still never worked on iPad (25 mins); worked finally when I searched 4 times with the MDE app (logged me out; had to enter code sent to email) and payment was populated.  I was paying over $350 for this


Wow!  DH doesn't have all the MDE history, and he always used his phone to book Rise VQ, while I had mine open to atomic clock.  Thanks for suggestion - I will have him try for Remy VQ, too.  He really needs a
stress-free vacation..... I told him I will try to make it hakuna matata.....I may require some liquid assistance to achieve that...


----------



## snikki

emilymad said:


> This is what we are thinking as well.  We might get G+ for MK or maybe on a day we park hop but that's it.  We do rope drop and then take a break before going back to the park in the evenings.  I don't want to be refreshing my phone to just get LL at the right time in the evenings.
> 
> We used MP when we were in DL and hated it so we know G+ most likely won't work with how we vacation.




I have the same thoughts. Maybe buying G+ on a day we do DHS or MK. We also do the RD, pool break and PM park. Some days we sleep in and hit a park in afternoon or evening. I don’t want to be sitting at the pool refreshing my phone hoping to get a good time for our PM park or for when we head out in the afternoon/evenings. I didn’t do that with FP+ either. I can just do the ILL and be set.


----------



## Marionnette

salisboss said:


> Question for the group. As I understand if you purchase Genie+ it is for everyone in the party for the day. What about individual Lightning Lane rides? For example my wife doesn't do roller coasters so for 7DMT or something it would just be my daughter and I. Can we only buy the lightning lane access for the two of us?


Genie+ is $15 per person per day. You can choose who you purchase for. It does not need to be for everyone in your group, provided that those for whom you do not purchase are content with standby lines.

IA$ purchases are also on a per-person basis. So if your wife doesn't care for thrill rides, they don't need to buy one for 7DMTR just because you and your daughter wish to ride it.


----------



## deltadisney

Is it correct that with scheduling a LL ride with Genie+, you have to accept the time the system gives you and cannot choose different ride times (for example select a time for later in the day)?


----------



## Bibbobboo2u

deltadisney said:


> Is it correct that with scheduling a LL ride with Genie+, you have to accept the time the system gives you and cannot choose different ride times (for example select a time for later in the day)?


From Disney's use of the phrase "next available time", it seems that you will not be able to choose ride time.  Since you don't have to accept a LL that is presented, in theory it seems that you could pass on earlier one and hope that something closer to your desired time finally comes up, but who really knows how all of this will work at this point.


----------



## snikki

deltadisney said:


> Is it correct that with scheduling a LL ride with Genie+, you have to accept the time the system gives you and cannot choose different ride times (for example select a time for later in the day)?



You can pick the ride but the times will be next available. You can’t pick a time later in the day if there is something available sooner.


----------



## fly girl

The only major issue I have with G+ is no re-rides. I do not like that aspect at all. I've said it before, and I am saying it again. Disney's line of we are taking the beloved MaxPass and adding more flexibility is a huge bunch of hooey. We are re-ride people. And yeah, I know we can do standby. I am not waiting 45 minutes for TSMM or 60 minutes for SDD. I am not. We did it during spring break in April and we all said this wasn't for us and we were waiting until whatever form of FP came back.

Yes, we are the diehard FP+ people who used our initial 3 by noon and continually kept pulling our additional selections throughout the day. Our motto was why wait 10 minutes in standby when we can walk on with FP+. YMMV but it worked very well for us. We refreshed getting headliner rides again (i.e. FOP we did four times in a day) it took effort, but we did it! And we loved it.

Like everyone on here, we maximize our time at the parks how WE want, not to how Disney wants us to do it. Now Disney is taking that flexibility away. The thing I don't understand is how Disney failed to realize we are now waiting in line and removing what they care about most ... money! We are not spending money in line. We can't shop or buy food/drink while waiting for a ride.

Of course this could change over time, but it won't change on our trip at the end of this month. I hope I will be pleasantly surprised like I was with GOTG at DLR. I was livid they took ToT away until I experienced GOTG. I ate my words, big time. Man, I really really really really hope this will be the case for G+. I know it won't -- as I am not paying to ride SM, FEA, MMRR, or EE -- but if I am even a little bit happier than I think I will be then I'll take it.


----------



## Sunelis

fly girl said:


> The only major issue I have with G+ is no re-rides. I do not like that aspect at all. I've said it before, and I am saying it again. Disney's line of we are taking the beloved MaxPass and adding more flexibility is a huge bunch of hooey. We are re-ride people. And yeah, I know we can do standby. I am not waiting 45 minutes for TSMM or 60 minutes for SDD. I am not. We did it during spring break in April and we all said this wasn't for us and we were waiting until whatever form of FP came back.
> 
> Yes, we are the diehard FP+ people who used our initial 3 by noon and continually kept pulling our additional selections throughout the day. Our motto was why wait 10 minutes in standby when we can walk on with FP+. YMMV but it worked very well for us. We refreshed getting headliner rides again (i.e. FOP we did four times in a day) it took effort, but we did it! And we loved it.



This is exactly me. And since I'm a solo traveler it was still "easy" to get FP+ later in the day even for headliners. 
The no re-rides thing is the reason why I will not buy Genie+.
Unless things changes before my trip in early November,  I'll maximize Early Entry and end of days hours and see how it goes.


----------



## RamieGee

thptrek said:


> We start our vacation on the 19th at AK. Really looking forward to this new system (if it doesn't crash). Stacking Genie+ LL rides one after another all day and adding in paying for LL$ rides should really reduce the amount of wait we do. We will grab our first Genie+ at 7am, another at 9am, and just keep going all day. I really don't see an issue here.


It would be decent if it worked that way, but what if what you really want is, for example, Splash Mountain, Big Thunder, and Haunted Mansion. When you go in at 7am, it has you coming back at 2pm for Splash. You book that. At 9am, you try for Big Thunder and get a 5pm. Then, at 10am, you try for Haunted Mansion and it’s gone for the day. So is Jungle Cruise, Peter Pan, Pirates, and Buzz. For the rest of the day all you can stack in there is things like Barnstormer, Winnie the Pooh, Magic Carpets, etc. 

Maybe this scenario I’m imagining is not likely? But what if it is?


----------



## Grumpy by Birth

AnnabelleTheTalkingTree said:


> I was under the assumption that Genie+ could be only every two hours until someone here pointed me over to the video from Molly. I watched and rewatched and my understanding based on that is that your next Genie+ reservation can be made as soon as you check into your current attraction, and that the next reservation does NOT have to be two hours away as long as you've checked in. I still don't trust any of this info until I see it in practice next week.


Based on everything I've read/seen, here's how I THINK G+ will work:

When you make your first LL selection, it will show you all the available rides.  Each will have one time shown (the next available time).

If your first LL selection made through G+ is between 1-119 minutes in the future, you will be able to go on G+ and look for your next one as soon as you scan in to the ride.  At that time, you'll again see the next available time for all G+ rides.

Some of the more popular rides will have the return times pushed later more quickly (just like it was with legacy paper FP).  So, if you are choosing a popular ride for your 2nd or 3rd choice, it might be 120+ minutes in the future.  In this instance, you would not have to wait until scanning in to get your next LL selection on G+ but, rather, you'd be able to get another one once two hours has elapsed.

If you have a LL return time that's far in the future (which could theoretically happen for some of the most popular rides), you would be able to obtain another LL after two hours and if the one you select has a quick return time, you could get another as soon as you scan in for that ride (with your evening LL still "stacked" in reserve).  If you keep selecting rides with return times that are not too far in the future, you'll be able to maximize the number of LLs you obtain.

However, if you're holding that late afternoon LL time and after two hours you select another popular ride where the return times have also extended into later hours, you'll need to wait another two hours before making another LL selection in G+.  Doing this would give you two "stacked" LLs for later, but also increases the odds that you'll get a fewer number of overall LLs, because while you're in those two hour cooling off periods, the return times for other rides are also moving into the future.

The big unknown is how quickly non-headliner LLs will get booked up.  If the usage is somewhat consistent with FP+, there should still be choices well into the afternoon for some rides, but headliners will be booked up earlier.

So, which strategy will people land on as the "best" (subjective for each individual, I know)?  Book headliners even if the return times are later and take your chances on getting fewer LLs for the non-headliners?  Or avoid those later return times in order to get more LLs per day?  I'm thinking that seeing the return time already pushing later will be a strong motivator for some people to select certain rides (on top of the popularity) and folks (at least those "in the know") will be more inclined to incur the two hour cooling off period to ensure they have a LL reservation for rides that they anticipate will have the longest SB waits.

ETA: I think the jury is still out on whether the two-hour cooling off period goes into effect for a 7 am selection (or even later for parks that open later).  If the park opens at (or before) 9am, it shouldn't matter because any LL reservation you make at 7 am will be for shortly after park open, so you'd be able to make another one shortly after 9am (possibly even earlier if your first LL selection has a return time before 9am.

If EPCOT eventually returns to a 9am opening, this will be moot, but with 11 am opening, the big question is whether you can make another LL at 9am (two hours cooling off period after you selected the first one at 7 am) or if you'll have to wait until the park opens before making your next LL selection in G+.


----------



## Jonfw2

D23 members just got offered free Genie+ on October 19th.


----------



## elgerber

Jonfw2 said:


> D23 members just got offered free Genie+ on October 19th.


Well that's not going to help anything.  Now some people that might have wanted to pay will use it also.


----------



## Bibbobboo2u

Grumpy by Birth said:


> Based on everything I've read/seen, here's how I THINK G+ will work:
> 
> When you make your first LL selection, it will show you all the available rides.  Each will have one time shown (the next available time).
> 
> If you're first LL selection made through G+ is between 1-119 minutes in the future, you will be able to go on G+ and look for your next one as soon as you scan in.  At that time, you'll again see the next available time for all G+ rides.
> 
> Some of the more popular rides will have the return times pushed later more quickly (just like it was with legacy paper FP).  So, if you are choosing a popular ride for your 2nd or 3rd choice, it might be 120+ minutes in the future.  In this instance, you would not have to wait until scanning in to get your next LL selection on G+ but, rather, you'd be able to get another one once two hours has elapsed.
> 
> If you have a LL return time that's far in the future (which could theoretically happen for some of the most popular rides), you would be able to obtain another LL after two hours and if the one you select has a quick return time, you could get another as soon as you scan in for that ride (with your evening LL still "stacked" in reserve).  If you keep selecting rides with return times that are not too far in the future, you'll be able to maximize the number of LLs you obtain.
> 
> However, if you're holding that late afternoon LL time and after two hours you select another popular ride where the return times have also extended into later hours, you'll need to wait another two hours before making another LL selection in G+.  Doing this would give you two "stacked" LLs for later, but also increases the odds that you'll get a fewer number of overall LLs, because while you're in those two hour cooling off periods, the return times for other rides are also moving into the future.
> 
> The big unknown is how quickly non-headliner LLs will get booked up.  If the usage is somewhat consistent with FP+, there should still be choices well into the afternoon for some rides, but headliners will be booked up earlier.
> 
> So, which strategy will people land on as the "best" (subjective for each individual, I know)?  Book headliners even if the return times are later and take your chances on getting fewer LLs for the non-headliners?  Or avoid those later return times in order to get more LLs per day?  I'm thinking that seeing the return time already pushing later will be a strong motivator for some people to select certain rides (on top of the popularity) and folks (at least those "in the know") will be more inclined to incur the two hour cooling off period to ensure they have a LL reservation for rides that they anticipate will have the longest SB waits.


All of this and more going through my brain right now as I contemplate how to navigate this on launch day.  I really don't want to be a genie-pig and could opt to just do standby, but the fact that there will now be paid LL capacity during our trip will prompt us to try it at HWS and MK.  We don't plan to use in other parks, and we won't do any ILL$.  Good luck to everyone going next week!  We are all going to need it!!!


----------



## Jonfw2

Jonfw2 said:


> D23 members just got offered free Genie+ on October 19th.


Further:

- One per Gold Member family.
- All the rules for G+ are spelled out, but no mention of one at a time. Or "120 minutes".


----------



## Grasshopper2016

I agree with almost everything Grumpy by Birth just said (in post #3,526).  Another thing that I am wondering about is the role of "refreshing" in all of this.  It is true that FP+ for popular rides typically ran out early in the day (actually, often more than a month in advance).  But (1) Disney would occasionally drop additional FP slots into circulation throughout the day, and (2) people would often cancel FP slots.  Thus, you could keep refreshing the FP options on your phone and sometimes snag a FP for a headliner later in the day.  Many of us on these boards mastered that skill.

What will "refresh" be like with Genie+?  First of all, can you snag a time and then change it later if you see a better option (like you used to be able to do with FP+)?  Or are you locked in until either you use your LL slot or it expires?  Second, will Disney keep refilling the LL availability throughout the day, akin to the FP drops of old?  (And will they do so at fixed times that insiders can come to expect, as happened with FP+?)  Depending on the answers to these questions, the "refresh method" could still exist.  Even if you're not allowed change your choice, you might keep refreshing before accepting one to see if a better one pops up.  Though that would be a gamble, because the times slots that are available will keep slipping away.  

Of course, there are both pros and cons to the refresh method.  Some people seem to be viewing the silver lining of Genie+ to be that we won't have to have our noses buried in our phones all day.  If refresh is still an option, then that benefit goes away.  It might be worth it, though, if there is a meaningful opportunity to snag better rides.  (Though the no re-rides rule would still eliminate much of the value of refreshing.)


----------



## OhDannyBoy

Jonfw2 said:


> - All the rules for G+ are spelled out, but no mention of one at a time. Or "120 minutes".


I keep thinking I'm missing something but I don't see anything about 1 time only anywhere official.

EDIT: I think I misunderstood what you are referring to.


----------



## Jonfw2

OhDannyBoy said:


> I keep thinking I'm missing something but I don't see anything about 1 time only anywhere official.
> 
> EDIT: I think I misunderstood what you are referring to.


Yeah...no clue.  I can't say Disney has officially confirmed anything either way.  Maybe people will just have to find out in six days!


----------



## R&RsMom

Violetspider said:


> They are talking about the free Genie itinerary portion, not Genie+. The Genie app can make you an itinerary to follow, so if you get on the ride earlier than what the itinerary suggested, then that ride will be erased from the itinerary. It will be like checking off that box. If you got a LL pass through G+ but ride the same ride via stand by prior to you reservation time, your G+ reservation will absolutely *not* be erased.



This. I just watched that portion of the video and she is clearly talking about free Genie, not Genie+. she is not talking about your LLs going away.


----------



## masupo

cjlong88 said:


> *Genie+ (G+)*
> 1) Gives you access to the Lightning Lane for 40-ish attractions throughout WDW
> 2) Costs $15 per person per day to use
> 3) You can book one LL at a time
> 4) You can book your next LL after using your current one OR after two hours have passed, whichever occurs first
> 5) You will only be able to book a LL for each ride only one time. So if you want to re-ride a specific attraction and you have already used LL for that attraction, then you need to wait in the standby line.
> 
> 
> *Individual Lightning Lane Selections (ILLS)*
> 1) There are *eight* attractions not included with G+ (FoP, Everest, 7DMT, Space, RotR, MMRR, FEA, Remy)
> 2) To use the LL for these rides, you must purchase access seperately
> 3) The price to skip the line will vary based on many factors (i.e. surge pricing)
> 4) You may purchase up to two of these each day
> 5) You do not need to have G+ to use ILLS
> 
> 
> *Options*
> 1) Use G+ only
> 2) Use ILLS only
> 3) Use both G+ and ILLS
> 4) Use neither and wait in the standby line





AnnabelleTheTalkingTree said:


> I was under the assumption that Genie+ could be only every two hours until someone here pointed me over to the video from Molly. I watched and rewatched and my understanding based on that is that your next Genie+ reservation can be made as soon as you check into your current attraction, and that the next reservation does NOT have to be two hours away as long as you've checked in. I still don't trust any of this info until I see it in practice next week.



The other post I've quoted here is an excellent summary of the whole system.

The two hour thing is a "cool off period". You can use the app to make another LL reservation after you scan in for your ride or 120 minutes after you last used the app to make a reservation - whichever comes first. As an example:

You have a Genie+ LL return time of 11:00am at Splash Mountain. You scan in at exactly 11:00 and you want a LL for BTMRR. You reserve the next available time for that ride - 3:00 (4 hours away).

Since your next ride is so far in the future, at 1:00 you can make another LL reservation on another ride. 1:00 is 2 hours after you used the app to make the BTMRR LL reservation.

If you are able to keep making LL reservations that are less than two hours away, you don't need to worry about the cool off period.

Disney Tourist Blog has a good post with a potential sample day at MK using Genie+ with references to the 120 minute rule

https://www.disneytouristblog.com/1-day-magic-kingdom-lightning-lanes-genie-plus/


----------



## goofynut41

So If I understand this right if you pay to ride Rise of Restance you are guarinteed to ride it right?


----------



## Bibbobboo2u

I will have to set an alarm on my phone every time we need to follow the "120 minute rule".  In the middle of Space Mountain?  Oh yeah - have to book that next LL ride!  If you hear an alarm going off, just carry on. It's just me trying to remember to do everything needed to ensure my family has a great, stress-free time during our WDW vacation!


----------



## Sunelis

goofynut41 said:


> So If I understand this right if you pay to ride Rise of Restance you are guarinteed to ride it right?


As long as the ride doesn't break down yes.


----------



## Jonfw2

Bibbobboo2u said:


> I will have to set an alarm on my phone every time we need to follow the "120 minute rule".  In the middle of Space Mountain?  Oh yeah - have to book that next LL ride!  If you hear an alarm going off, just carry on. It's just me trying to remember to do everything needed to ensure my family has a great, stress-free time during our WDW vacation!


Not exactly. Your 120 minutes is unique to you.


----------



## Grumpy by Birth

Grasshopper2016 said:


> I agree with almost everything Grumpy by Birth has said EVER!


Fixed it for you!


----------



## Bibbobboo2u

Jonfw2 said:


> Not exactly. Your 120 minutes is unique to you.


Yes.  I will be setting 120 minute alarms each time it applies for one of our future LL purchases.  I hope there is enough availability so that we can just book successive LL rides in closer time frames than this, and then I won't need to set alarms.  However, I think they are going to use the program to limit access to the number of LL entries you can get in a day, so what G+ offers may very likely be widely spaced time-wise.  I guess I will find out soon.


----------



## Turksmom

R&RsMom said:


> This. I just watched that portion of the video and she is clearly talking about free Genie, not Genie+. she is not talking about your LLs going away.


BUT- if not already booked, will Genie+ be smart enough to know that you already rode Splash Mountain(for example) and not show you available times for it later?
It may not cancel an existing pass, but it's possible it won't show availability to book later


----------



## Bibbobboo2u

Turksmom said:


> BUT- if not already booked, will Genie+ be smart enough to know that you already rode Splash Mountain(for example) and not show you available times for it later?
> It may not cancel an existing pass, but it's possible it won't show availability to book later


another thing I have wondered, too.....


----------



## Disturbia

deltadisney said:


> Is it correct that with scheduling a LL ride with Genie+, you have to accept the time the system gives you and cannot choose different ride times (for example select a time for later in the day)?


From Molly’s video it looks like it’s next available, however you can reoptimize the free version.  

Genie+ will not allow you to reoptimize so they want you to use that pass at that time (less grace period).


----------



## Tom_E_D

Jonfw2 said:


> D23 members just got offered free Genie+ on October 19th.


Wow, what a perk!!! Because of your special status, you get an opportunity to be a Genie-pig.   



Jonfw2 said:


> Further:
> 
> - One per Gold Member family.
> - All the rules for G+ are spelled out, but no mention of one at a time. Or "120 minutes".



Are you going to share with us what "all the rules" are?


----------



## Disturbia

RamieGee said:


> It would be decent if it worked that way, but what if what you really want is, for example, Splash Mountain, Big Thunder, and Haunted Mansion. When you go in at 7am, it has you coming back at 2pm for Splash. You book that. At 9am, you try for Big Thunder and get a 5pm. Then, at 10am, you try for Haunted Mansion and it’s gone for the day. So is Jungle Cruise, Peter Pan, Pirates, and Buzz. For the rest of the day all you can stack in there is things like Barnstormer, Winnie the Pooh, Magic Carpets, etc.
> 
> Maybe this scenario I’m imagining is not likely? But what if it is?


I think it has to work this way otherwise someone who got Splash at 5 pm will be really mad


----------



## Disturbia

Turksmom said:


> BUT- if not already booked, will Genie+ be smart enough to know that you already rode Splash Mountain(for example) and not show you available times for it later?
> It may not cancel an existing pass, but it's possible it won't show availability to book later


This is what I was confused about.  That’s the way the free genie itinerary works because it’s just suggestions to ride standby.

But I do thipink we might have to select 8 rides in genie+ as well and then it spits out the closest next available based on where you are and what you have planned next.

I want to know if I could just select 4-5 rides and do standby for others.


----------



## Disturbia

goofynut41 said:


> So If I understand this right if you pay to ride Rise of Restance you are guarinteed to ride it right?


Not necessarily; Molly recommendEd booking earlier so a bonus type pass can be issued - weather and ride breakdowns and heck even WiFi shutdowns happen


----------



## wisblue

I don’t mind the Genie giving me suggestions for what to do next or what to get a LL for as long as I am also presented with all of the other options.

Ideally, I would like to see on one screen all of the available attractions with standby wait times and next available LL time for each of them. From there I can make my own decisions what to do. 

I also wonder if the Genie will give you an alert that you can now make a new LL reservation, either because you have tapped in for one or because enough time has passed.


----------



## AnnabelleTheTalkingTree

Bibbobboo2u said:


> I will have to set an alarm on my phone every time we need to follow the "120 minute rule".  In the middle of Space Mountain?  Oh yeah - have to book that next LL ride!  If you hear an alarm going off, just carry on. It's just me trying to remember to do everything needed to ensure my family has a great, stress-free time during our WDW vacation!



This is my biggest issue with this system. I am the planner for a group, and I would prefer to do it beforehand so I can also enjoy the vacation. Now I'm going to actually have to THINK while I'm on vacation. I do not want to think while I'm on vacation.


----------



## CWTC

Disturbia said:


> Not necessarily; Molly recommendEd booking earlier so a bonus type pass can be issued


I understand not getting on ROTR if it breaks down but under what other circumstances would my 15$ upcharge not be honored? I would not want a bonus pass: I would want to ride ROTR and I would have an expectation that I would be permitted to do so.


----------



## Turksmom

CWTC said:


> I understand not getting on ROTR if it breaks down but under what other circumstances would my 15$ upcharge not be honored? I would not want a bonus pass: I would want to ride ROTR and I would have an expectation that I would be permitted to do so.


 You mean Star Tours isn't close enough?  I'm pretty sure the bonus pass was for the G+ attractions. Like the any experience FP+ they'd issue when rides went down


----------



## Disturbia

CWTC said:


> I understand not getting on ROTR if it breaks down but under what other circumstances would my 15$ upcharge not be honored? I would not want a bonus pass: I would want to ride ROTR and I would have an expectation that I would be permitted to do so.


there was one day when lightening struck the ride and no one got on; I would think Disney would make up for unexpected and rare events.

 If you arrived after your arrival time, there is little to no grace period so the system is rigid.


----------



## Bibbobboo2u

AnnabelleTheTalkingTree said:


> This is my biggest issue with this system. I am the planner for a group, and I would prefer to do it beforehand so I can also enjoy the vacation. Now I'm going to actually have to THINK while I'm on vacation. I do not want to think while I'm on vacation.


My exact thoughts!  I am the planner for our trips, and I liked having things arranged before ever entering the bubble.  I would rather have one "stressful" morning booking rides before vacation than 6 or 7 stressful days while on vacation, dealing with potential disappointment in real time if you can't do what you really want to.  It was never actually stressful to me to book FP+ rides, and if we didn't always get what we wanted, we were able to try modifying our choices.  It also gave time to deal with any disappointment before, rather than during, vacation.  We shall see how this goes next week.


----------



## MainMom

Disturbia said:


> From Molly’s video it looks like it’s next available, however you can reoptimize the free version.
> 
> Genie+ will not allow you to reoptimize so they want you to use that pass at that time (less grace period).


Do I HAVE to optimize though? I just want them to show me all of the options and let me choose!


----------



## CWTC

Disturbia said:


> If you arrived after your arrival time, there is little to no grace period so the system is rigid.


Well of course that’s to be expected but I guess I’m not sure why booking early in the day is encouraged to get a bonus pass.  I’d book early in the day in case the ride broke down and it goes without saying we’d arrive on time. If I pay 15$ and cannot get on ROTR through no fault of my own, then I expect my 15$ back not a bonus pass.


----------



## MainMom

AnnabelleTheTalkingTree said:


> This is my biggest issue with this system. I am the planner for a group, and I would prefer to do it beforehand so I can also enjoy the vacation. Now I'm going to actually have to THINK while I'm on vacation. I do not want to think while I'm on vacation.


Same!


----------



## bsmcneil

AnnabelleTheTalkingTree said:


> This is my biggest issue with this system. I am the planner for a group, and I would prefer to do it beforehand so I can also enjoy the vacation. Now I'm going to actually have to THINK while I'm on vacation. I do not want to think while I'm on vacation.


Ahhh, and Disney doesn't want you to either because it might lead you to making wiser (for you) financial decisions. Honestly, this feels very micro-transaction/gambling-esque to me - let's make it so that people are caught up in things and not able to think too much about the pros/cons of buying something ahead of time. It really frustrates me.


----------



## Disturbia

MainMom said:


> Do I HAVE to optimize though? I just want them to show me all of the options and let me choose!


That’s when it will see you did the ride and remove it from your free suggestions


----------



## Disturbia

CWTC said:


> Well of course that’s to be expected but I guess I’m not sure why booking early in the day is encouraged to get a bonus pass.  I’d book early in the day in case the ride broke down and it goes without saying we’d arrive on time. If I pay 15$ and cannot get on ROTR through no fault of my own (Ie arriving late), then I expect my 15$ back not a bonus pass.


They made it clear it’s non refundable


----------



## Disturbia

Let’s not panic.  There are some other benefits like dining walk up list and real time info.  It’s probably not going to be as bad as we are all assuming.


----------



## Violetspider

goofynut41 said:


> So If I understand this right if you pay to ride Rise of Restance you are guarinteed to ride it right?





Disturbia said:


> Not necessarily; Molly recommendEd booking earlier so a bonus type pass can be issued - weather and ride breakdowns and heck even WiFi shutdowns happen



Molly was referring to G+ rides. Goofynut41 is asking about what guarantee there is for an ILL$ purchase for ROTR. The answer is, you are guaranteed a ride or a refund. Whether you can actually return later to ride if the attraction is running again is another matter. Disney may or may not refund your money if you are the one that can not return at that time. They've indicated decisions will be based on a case by case situation when break downs occur. Personally I don't see how you wouldn't be given a refund. A nicely delivered "complaint" at customer relations usually goes a long way.


----------



## CWTC

Disturbia said:


> They made it clear it’s non refundable


I understood not refundable as in I cannot change my choice of ride/time/day but that would be really poor customer service if the ride is unavailable for the bulk of a day and they cannot deliver on their end of the agreement.  ROTR is not the most reliable so if it goes offline at 11am and does not open back up then they keep my 15$? Wow.


----------



## Violetspider

CWTC said:


> I understood not refundable as in I cannot change my choice of ride/time/day but that would be really poor customer service if the ride is unavailable for the bulk of a day and they cannot deliver on their end of the agreement.  ROTR is not the most reliable. Wow.


Please refer to my post above. You are getting answers based on the other part of Genie not ILL.


----------



## OhDannyBoy

Disturbia said:


> Let’s not panic.



Blasphemy!! Panic over new things is the way of the Disney fanatic!! So it is written and so it shall be!!


----------



## Turksmom

OhDannyBoy said:


> Blasphemy!! Panic over new things is the way of the Disney fanatic!! So it is written and so it shall be!!


Can I just be grumpy and mildly irritated instead?


----------



## OhDannyBoy

Turksmom said:


> Can I just be grumpy and mildly irritated instead?


----------



## Aluminum Falcon

CWTC said:


> I understood not refundable as in I cannot change my choice of ride/time/day but that would be really poor customer service if the ride is unavailable for the bulk of a day and they cannot deliver on their end of the agreement.  ROTR is not the most reliable so if it goes offline at 11am and does not open back up then they keep my 15$? Wow.


I would assume they would probably issue you a credit if you paid for a ride that was down the entire day, but can also see why they wouldn't want to put anything in writing, because there are a lot of people who would request a refund because "they didn't have time", "lunch ran late" ect...

On the other side, couldn't you say that about your park ticket if a ride was down for the day, you paid to be able to ride it, and you weren't able to at that point, i know it's different, but kind sorta not really haha


----------



## thptrek

Marionnette said:


> Do you have park hoppers? You're limited to only one G+ reservation per attraction, per day. AK has only 8 G+ attractions (3 of which are shows that never required a FP) and then the two IIL$ attractions. I think that you might find it difficult to just keep going all day at AK (or Epcot for that matter) unless you hop another park or re-ride your favorites using standby.


 We don't have park hoppers. One G+ reservation per attraction is fine. Use it when wait times are high and then re-ride when wait times are low in late afternoon (for example) or just suck it up and wait. I understand that the value may not be there at AK compared to MK, but we shall see. If we finish up all our rides/shows early it gives us more time to have a drink at the bar.


----------



## thptrek

This is all somewhat reminiscent of the great freak out when FP first came out (both paper ticket FP and then when it went electronic). I mean that with all my heart and the best of intentions. All of us on the boards tend to the planners so we get down in the weeds real quick. 

BTW, I just celebrated my 20 year Disboards anniversary and I love you all.


----------



## masupo

Tom_E_D said:


> Wow, what a perk!!! Because of your special status, you get an opportunity to be a Genie-pig.
> 
> Are you going to share with us what "all the rules" are?





OhDannyBoy said:


> I keep thinking I'm missing something but I don't see anything about 1 time only anywhere official.
> 
> EDIT: I think I misunderstood what you are referring to.



Here are the details from the D23 fine print. It mentions the one pass per ride thing near the bottom. I wouldn't mind being a Genie-pig for free, but I don't arrive til 10/31. I'm looking forward to hearing everyone's experiences before then!

*Attractions with Lightning Lane entrances that are Disney Genie+ and individual purchases are limited in availability, subject to change or closure, may vary by date, and are not guaranteed.

To enter a theme park, both a valid admission and theme park reservation for the same park and same date are required.

Park reservations are limited, subject to availability, and are not guaranteed for any specific dates or park. Price, terms and entitlements are subject to restrictions, and change or cancellation without notice.

About Disney Genie and Disney Genie+ Service
Built right into the My Disney Experience app, Disney Genie service will help you create your best Disney day inspired by your interests and activities. It includes a personalized itinerary feature that saves you time by seamlessly and smartly mapping out your special day with updates that continue from morning to night.

With the purchase of Disney Genie+ service, you can save time waiting in line. This new service, at more than 40 attractions and experiences throughout the Walt Disney World theme parks, lets you select the next available arrival window for our new Lightning Lane entrances. You can make one selection at a time, throughout the day. You may not select the same experience more than once per day, and experience and arrival window selections are limited and subject to availability.

With Disney Genie+ service, you’ll also enjoy new audio tales that let you discover the Parks in cool new ways. Plus, access to exclusive Disney PhotoPass Lenses for your mobile device—allowing you to explore magical new augmented reality effects.


----------



## Disturbia

Violetspider said:


> Molly was referring to G+ rides. Goofynut41 is asking about what guarantee there is for an ILL$ purchase for ROTR. The answer is, you are guaranteed a ride or a refund. Whether you can actually return later to ride if the attraction is running again is another matter. Disney may or may not refund your money if you are the one that can not return at that time. They've indicated decisions will be based on a case by case situation when break downs occur. Personally I don't see how you wouldn't be given a refund. A nicely delivered "complaint" at customer relations usually goes a long way.



Today MK reached capacity; I’m not sure if we will get a refund if park hopping and have LLIA

Kyle Pallo reporting his MK park reservation was cancelled even though he took a screenshot. Hopefully IT at least can manage basics


----------



## OhDannyBoy

thptrek said:


> This is all somewhat reminiscent of the great freak out when FP first came out (both paper ticket FP and then when it went electronic). I mean that with all my heart and the best of intentions. All of us on the boards tend to the planners so we get down in the weeds real quick.
> 
> BTW, I just celebrated my 20 year Disboards anniversary and I love you all.


I was curious to ask some of you old school folks who were on here during those times if people acted like the apocalypse was upon them then too.

I figure the answer is yes.



masupo said:


> Here are the details from the D23 fine print. It mentions the one pass per ride thing near the bottom.
> 
> *Attractions with Lightning Lane entrances that are Disney Genie+ and individual purchases are limited in availability, subject to change or closure, may vary by date, and are not guaranteed.
> 
> To enter a theme park, both a valid admission and theme park reservation for the same park and same date are required.
> 
> Park reservations are limited, subject to availability, and are not guaranteed for any specific dates or park. Price, terms and entitlements are subject to restrictions, and change or cancellation without notice.
> 
> About Disney Genie and Disney Genie+ Service
> Built right into the My Disney Experience app, Disney Genie service will help you create your best Disney day inspired by your interests and activities. It includes a personalized itinerary feature that saves you time by seamlessly and smartly mapping out your special day with updates that continue from morning to night.
> 
> With the purchase of Disney Genie+ service, you can save time waiting in line. This new service, at more than 40 attractions and experiences throughout the Walt Disney World theme parks, lets you select the next available arrival window for our new Lightning Lane entrances. You can make one selection at a time, throughout the day. You may not select the same experience more than once per day, and experience and arrival window selections are limited and subject to availability.
> 
> With Disney Genie+ service, you’ll also enjoy new audio tales that let you discover the Parks in cool new ways. Plus, access to exclusive Disney PhotoPass Lenses for your mobile device—allowing you to explore magical new augmented reality effects.



Well there it is. Thanks!!


----------



## Bibbobboo2u

OhDannyBoy said:


> Blasphemy!! Panic over new things is the way of the Disney fanatic!! So it is written and so it shall be!!


To put it another way:  "I have spoken."


----------



## Disturbia

masupo said:


> Here are the details from the D23 fine print. It mentions the one pass per ride thing near the bottom. I wouldn't mind being a Genie-pig for free, but I don't arrive til 10/31. I'm looking forward to hearing everyone's experiences before then!
> 
> *Attractions with Lightning Lane entrances that are Disney Genie+ and individual purchases are limited in availability, subject to change or closure, may vary by date, and are not guaranteed.
> 
> To enter a theme park, both a valid admission and theme park reservation for the same park and same date are required.
> 
> Park reservations are limited, subject to availability, and are not guaranteed for any specific dates or park. Price, terms and entitlements are subject to restrictions, and change or cancellation without notice.
> 
> About Disney Genie and Disney Genie+ Service
> Built right into the My Disney Experience app, Disney Genie service will help you create your best Disney day inspired by your interests and activities. It includes a personalized itinerary feature that saves you time by seamlessly and smartly mapping out your special day with updates that continue from morning to night.
> 
> With the purchase of Disney Genie+ service, you can save time waiting in line. This new service, at more than 40 attractions and experiences throughout the Walt Disney World theme parks, lets you select the next available arrival window for our new Lightning Lane entrances. You can make one selection at a time, throughout the day. You may not select the same experience more than once per day, and experience and arrival window selections are limited and subject to availability.
> 
> With Disney Genie+ service, you’ll also enjoy new audio tales that let you discover the Parks in cool new ways. Plus, access to exclusive Disney PhotoPass Lenses for your mobile device—allowing you to explore magical new augmented reality effects.



fine print says subject to availability; chances of refund (for genie+) here are nil.  ROTR IALL is non refundable


----------



## CWTC

Disturbia said:


> Today MK reached capacity; I’m not sure if we will get a refund if park hopping and have LLIA


Capacity for no hopping? Or capacity as in closure levels usually seen on Xmas/New Years?


----------



## Grumpy by Birth

wisblue said:


> I don’t mind the Genie giving me suggestions for what to do next or what to get a LL for as long as I am also presented with all of the other options.
> 
> Ideally, I would like to see on one screen all of the available attractions with standby wait times and next available LL time for each of them. From there I can make my own decisions what to do.
> 
> I also wonder if the Genie will give you an alert that you can now make a new LL reservation, either because you have tapped in for one or because enough time has passed.


You will do what the genie tells you to do when the genie tells you to do it!   



masupo said:


> You can make one selection at a time, throughout the day.


Although, this doesn't explicitly reference making your next one when you scan in or 2 hours later (whichever comes first), that is still making one selection at a time.  It just doesn't make you wait until you ride to make the next one if your return time is more than 2 hours away.  So G+ could still include the 2 hour clause as some have reported and it's still true that you can only make one selection at a time.


----------



## Disturbia

CWTC said:


> Capacity for no hopping? Or capacity as in closure levels usually seen on Xmas/New Years?


He said for park pass reservation; not sure if park hopping would be limited then;


----------



## Bibbobboo2u

wisblue said:


> Ideally, I would like to see on one screen all of the available attractions with standby wait times and next available LL time for each of them. From there I can make my own decisions what to do.


This is from an article on AllEars.net.  It is a sample screen in their write-up.  If the real G+ looks like this, it will show standby wait time and next LL return time for the "top picks" you selected.  We will find out soon.


----------



## Aluminum Falcon

Disturbia said:


> Today MK reached capacity; I’m not sure if we will get a refund if park hopping and have LLIA
> 
> Kyle Pallo reporting his MK park reservation was cancelled even though he took a screenshot. Hopefully IT at least can manage basics


That seems hard to believe based on wait times, but i've been wrong before, also the Disney website shows that you can still make a reservation for MK today, so not sure what's going on with your friend haha


----------



## cm8

Disturbia said:


> Today MK reached capacity; I’m not sure if we will get a refund if park hopping and have LLIA
> 
> Kyle Pallo reporting his MK park reservation was cancelled even though he took a screenshot. Hopefully IT at least can manage basics


Wow!! What happens to the guest if this occurs after making all these purchases?


Also, something tells me that these  ILL rides are going to be pricey. I’m thinking like $20 to start PP. 

I hope I’m wrong but it’s a feeling I’m getting!


----------



## MainMom

Bibbobboo2u said:


> This is from an article on AllEars.net.  It is a sample screen in their write-up.  If the real G+ looks like this, it will show standby wait time and next LL return time for the "top picks" you selected.  We will find out soon.
> 
> View attachment 612835


But is this actual wait time or inflated. I wonder which one Disney will choose.


----------



## scrappinginontario

Bibbobboo2u said:


> Yes.  I will be setting 120 minute alarms each time it applies for one of our future LL purchases.  I hope there is enough availability so that we can just book successive LL rides in closer time frames than this, and then I won't need to set alarms.  However, I think they are going to use the program to limit access to the number of LL entries you can get in a day, so what G+ offers may very likely be widely spaced time-wise.  I guess I will find out soon.


I'm curious to find out if I book a return time that is in the future (e.g. 4 hours out) and book another one closer to current time when I'm eligible to, will it know when it's within 2 hours of my originally booked LL and stop me from booking another until I've fulfilled that one?  (Sorry if that's unclear - it makes sense in my head! )


----------



## Bibbobboo2u

MainMom said:


> But is this actual wait time or inflated. I wonder which one Disney will choose.


That is the magic question!


----------



## emilymad

What if I don't want to use Genie but I want to buy Genie+? Is that an option if I don't want to select an itinerary or my top picks?


----------



## Turksmom

Did anyone else notice that the G+ LL times are 2 hours or more past the time on the phone?


----------



## Disturbia

Bibbobboo2u said:


> This is from an article on AllEars.net.  It is a sample screen in their write-up.  If the real G+ looks like this, it will show standby wait time and next LL return time for the "top picks" you selected.  We will find out soon.
> 
> View attachment 612835


This screen actually limits your selections to 8 btw

https://insidethemagic.net/2021/10/...ne-at-disney-world-full-attractions-list-ba1/


----------



## Disturbia

I was told that is only the free genie itinerary screen


----------



## scrappinginontario

emilymad said:


> What if I don't want to use Genie but I want to buy Genie+? Is that an option if I don't want to select an itinerary or my top picks?


It will be on your MDE app but you do not need to use the touring plan option.


----------



## Bibbobboo2u

Disturbia said:


> This screen actually limits your selections to 8 btw


Dis Unplugged mentioned in their Genie video yesterday that during the media preview, they asked how many top picks you would be able to select.  The response they received was not a definitive one but more like possibly/probably 8 top picks.  We will find out soon.


----------



## Bibbobboo2u

Turksmom said:


> Did anyone else notice that the G+ LL times are 2 hours or more past the time on the phone?


Yes, but they also show return time of 11:40 *pm* for first ride shown (Buzz Lightyear), when I think they actually meant 11:40 *a.m*. Let's hope the real program gets the time right or that is going to be a really, really long wait for Buzz!


----------



## wisblue

MainMom said:


> But is this actual wait time or inflated. I wonder which one Disney will choose.



I assume that it will be the posted wait time determined the same way it has been for years. Those are usually inflated because of the difficulty, if not impossibility, of knowing how long it will take someone entering the line at that time to reach the ride.

I will probably still use Touring Plans to see if their “Expected” wait time is significantly different than the posted wait time.


----------



## Disturbia

Bibbobboo2u said:


> Dis Unplugged mentioned in their Genie video yesterday that during the media preview, they asked how many top picks you would be able to select.  The response they received was not a definitive one but more like possibly/probably 8 top picks.  We will find out soon.


So my understanding is the 8 top picks is for the free Disney Genie and not the paid Genie+, although Dis unplugged said it is for Genie+ in their video (maybe in error? Molly seems to think it’s all attractions but she didn’t say anything either way)


----------



## Jrb1979

scrappinginontario said:


> I'm curious to find out if I book a return time that is in the future (e.g. 4 hours out) and book another one closer to current time when I'm eligible to, will it know when it's within 2 hours of my originally booked LL and stop me from booking another until I've fulfilled that one?  (Sorry if that's unclear - it makes sense in my head! )


From the sounds of it the way it will work is if you book your first return time at 7am you can book your next at 9am. Your return time has no play in when you can book another one.


----------



## wisblue

Bibbobboo2u said:


> Dis Unplugged mentioned in their Genie video yesterday that during the media preview, they asked how many top picks you would be able to select.  The response they received was not a definitive one but more like possibly/probably 8 top picks.  We will find out soon.



In addition to the Top Picks I would expect that you could look at other things not on your Top Picks list by going to a different screen.


----------



## Disturbia

wisblue said:


> In addition to the Top Picks I would expect that you could look at other things not on your Top Picks list by going to a different screen.


Why don’t we have a detailed screenshot explanation by Disney; all this speculation is so confusing


----------



## luv2cheer92

OhDannyBoy said:


> I was curious to ask some of you old school folks who were on here during those times if people acted like the apocalypse was upon them then too.
> 
> I figure the answer is yes.
> 
> 
> 
> Well there it is. Thanks!!


I wasn't on here when legacy FP started, but it was most definitely an apocalypse when FP+ was announced. Worse than this.


----------



## Bibbobboo2u

Disturbia said:


> So my understanding is the 8 top picks is for the free Disney Genie and not the paid Genie+, although Dis unplugged said it is for Genie+ in their video (maybe in error? Molly seems to think it’s all attractions but she didn’t say anything either way)


I think it will be for both.  You have to provide Disney info on what you want to do in order for Genie/G+ to build an itinerary and provide continually updated info on the rides/attractions you told it you are interested in.  It would have been nice of Disney to answer these basic questions for us, but that hasn't happened yet. They really don't want us to know the "details" about how the limits are going to work.


----------



## Tom_E_D

cm8 said:


> Wow!! What happens to the guest if this occurs after making all these purchases?
> 
> 
> Also, something tells me that these  ILL rides are going to be pricey. I’m thinking like $20 to start PP.
> 
> I hope I’m wrong but it’s a feeling I’m getting!


Some of the opening week prices were announced at last week's media event and they're less than $20.

"The opening day Individual Lightning Lane prices that have been released thus far are as follows: Expedition Everest will be $7 per guest on Tuesday, October 19th, and $7 on Saturday, October 23rd. Seven Dwarfs Mine Train in the Magic Kingdom will be $10 per guest on October 19th, and $12 on Saturday the 23rd. Remy’s Ratatouille Adventure will be $9 per guest on Tuesday the 19th, and $11 on Saturday the 23rd. And _Star Wars_: Rise of the Resistance will be $15 per guest on both October 19th and October 23rd. It’s important to remember that the prices for the Individual Lightning Lane Entrance attractions will vary according to attraction and date, as we’ve seen in the prices we’ve been given. "

The quote is from this article.


----------



## scrappinginontario

cm8 said:


> Wow!! What happens to the guest if this occurs after making all these purchases?
> 
> 
> Also, something tells me that these  ILL rides are going to be pricey. I’m thinking like $20 to start PP.
> 
> I hope I’m wrong but it’s a feeling I’m getting!


According to Molly, top ILL purchase price is $15 right now.  That can change but that's the most expensive starting price and it will be for RotR both weekdays and weekends.


----------



## Marionnette

Bibbobboo2u said:


> I think it will be for both.  You have to provide Disney info on what you want to do in order for Genie/G+ to build an itinerary and provide continually updated info on the rides/attractions you told it you are interested in.  It would have been nice of Disney to answer these basic questions for us, but that hasn't happened yet. They really don't want us to know the "details" about how the limits are going to work.


I can understand the need to provide Disney with your top picks for Genie but why is it even necessary for Genie+?


----------



## Violetspider

Marionnette said:


> I can understand the need to provide Disney with your top picks for Genie but why is it even necessary for Genie+?


It's not. You don't need to do anything other than pay your $15 to use Genie+. That part of the app looks similar to the way FP+ looked on your phone. Not the same, just similar.


----------



## Bibbobboo2u

Marionnette said:


> I can understand the need to provide Disney with your top picks for Genie but why is it even necessary for Genie+?


I don’t think G+ is going to just show a list of all LL rides and next available times.  Nothing from media previews discussed by vloggers indicates that. It seems that the plan is to create a day customized with your “top picks”, subject to Disney’s undisclosed G+ limitations.  This is just my guess based on what very little info we have been given, and I may be completely wrong!  We will find out how it really works soon, though.


----------



## Disturbia

Marionnette said:


> I can understand the need to provide Disney with your top picks for Genie but why is it even necessary for Genie+?


No one knows for sure as all the bloggers are not clarifying this right now.  We will know soon enough.


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

Jonfw2 said:


> Further:
> 
> - One per Gold Member family.
> - All the rules for G+ are spelled out, but no mention of one at a time. Or "120 minutes".


The lack of 120 minutes mentioned in anything official doesn’t bode well for it actually being a thing at roll out.


----------



## CWTC

AnnaKristoff2013 said:


> The lack of 120 minutes mentioned in anything official doesn’t bode well for it actually being a thing at roll out.


Agreed. Tons of people are quoting this 120 minute thing but I have not been able to find it on a Disney site.


----------



## Marionnette

AnnaKristoff2013 said:


> The lack of 120 minutes mentioned in anything official doesn’t bode well for it actually being a thing at roll out.


Disney is famous for giving incomplete information. It allows them to make changes without changing something they published earlier. 

For instance, it was pretty well known that you could show up late for your 1-hour FP return window and you would still be permitted to ride. It was never published anywhere by Disney but it was a long-standing practice. Similarly, if you are in line for an attraction when the park closes, you still get to ride. It's not written anywhere on a Disney website but that's the way it has always been.

There have been enough media and TA reports that indicate that there will be a 120-minute waiting period for selecting a second G+ for me to feel pretty confident that it's true. Or else a lot of people really didn't have their listening ears on when that part of the presentation was running.


----------



## Grumpy by Birth

Turksmom said:


> Did anyone else notice that the G+ LL times are 2 hours or more past the time on the phone?


Yup.


----------



## emonade8

AndreaA said:


> Yeah, but you’ll care if that person was online and part of a crowd booking passes that then pushes your time out to 8pm just so that they can get one more ride in.


What does this even mean? If someone is online booking a pass to ride a ride, how is that "skirting the rules" or doing anything wrong? And yes, any G+ that's booked will push subsequent return times out further; that's literally the way the system is designed. It's not like that person is booking so they can ride that ride one more time. They're constrained by the limit of one G+ per ride so they can't schedule it again.

We're all going to be "online and part of a crowd booking passes" every single day ( that we pay for G+) of our vacations.


----------



## cm8

scrappinginontario said:


> According to Molly, top ILL purchase price is $15 right now.  That can change but that's the most expensive starting price and it will be for RotR both weekdays and weekends.


Wow!! These are pretty pricey! It’s 5 of us going on Saturday to HS and we’re going to have to pay $150? more for Greed+ and ILL


----------



## Turksmom

cm8 said:


> Wow!! These are pretty pricey! It’s 5 of us going on Saturday to HS and we’re going to have to pay $150? more for Greed+ and ILL


That's it exactly. You look at one person for G+ and ROTR and think," $30? That isn't too bad". Then you do the math for 5 people for 8 days...


----------



## cm8

Turksmom said:


> That's it exactly. You look at one person for G+ and ROTR and think," $30? That isn't too bad". Then you do the math for 5 people for 8 days...


$1200 is nothing to sneeze at!


----------



## Grasshopper2016

Turksmom said:


> You look at one person for G+ and ROTR and think," $30? That isn't too bad". Then you do the math for 5 people for 8 days...


Disney wants you to think of the price of ILL$ as the cost to skip the line, not the cost to ride the ride.  And there really is something to that.  It can be quite valuable to skip a hot and tedious line of 90 minutes or more---especially if you have whining kids and only limited time in the park, and have already sunk huge sums of money into your vacation.   But at some point, it's hard to avoid feeling like you just paid $10, $20, or more to ride a ride.  Especially with short rides like SDMT, that is a tough pill to swallow.  You're paying more money than it costs to see a movie, for a cute and fun but hardly thrilling ride that lasts less than 1% as long as a movie!   Even if you don't add up the costs for multiple rides and multiple family members over multiple days, it's still a lot of money!  And you're right that, once you do add it up . . . .


----------



## masupo

Marionnette said:


> Disney is famous for giving incomplete information. It allows them to make changes without changing something they published earlier.
> 
> For instance, it was pretty well known that you could show up late for your 1-hour FP return window and you would still be permitted to ride. It was never published anywhere by Disney but it was a long-standing practice. Similarly, if you are in line for an attraction when the park closes, you still get to ride. It's not written anywhere on a Disney website but that's the way it has always been.
> 
> There have been enough media and TA reports that indicate that there will be a 120-minute waiting period for selecting a second G+ for me to feel pretty confident that it's true. Or else a lot of people really didn't have their listening ears on when that part of the presentation was running.



Agreed. Disney usually publishes only the bare minimum, then we figure it out on our own. 

Now it seems they're utilizing bloggers/vloggers as a free resource to help disseminate info. The 120 minute thing is being reported by multiple sources and the odds are slim that every single one of them are wrong. 

Another reason I think the 120 minute rule exists is Maxpass users have posted that it worked the same way. It was 90 minutes instead of 120, but it worked for stacking. Disney never published anything about that either.


----------



## Lalalyn

cm8 said:


> $1200 is nothing to sneeze at!


Right now, I won’t say it alone is making us reconsider our plans. It is the total price and thinking what else we could do for that money. Family of 5. We had FP+ system down and never waited in lines more than maybe 50 minutes. Tickets for our week would be be $3000 for 6 day non-park hopper. Add in ILL and Genie+ and that is $4200, roughly. Add in onsite hotel, food, airfare and we are looking at 10k.

We went for a week in 2015, stayed at Poly and spent $5500 total!


----------



## katyringo

masupo said:


> Agreed. Disney usually publishes only the bare minimum, then we figure it out on our own.
> 
> Now it seems they're utilizing bloggers/vloggers as a free resource to help disseminate info. The 120 minute thing is being reported by multiple sources and the odds are slim that every single one of them are wrong.
> 
> Another reason I think the 120 minute rule exists is Maxpass users have posted that it worked the same way. It was 90 minutes instead of 120, but it worked for stacking. Disney never published anything about that either.



Thank you! This is what I have been trying to say!  Maxpass also said "one at a time" and "after you redeem" but those who knew the system knew about the 90 minute rule.

Wouldn't it make more sense that Disney took an already great system- maxpass- abs just tweaked it a bit? I think it's going to work very similar.  

Refresh? Still a thing. As people drop passes they would show up with an earlier time.. 

I think you will be able to scroll through available genie plus selections and see the available next time for each of them.


----------



## Grumpy by Birth

masupo said:


> Agreed. Disney usually publishes only the bare minimum, then we figure it out on our own.
> 
> Now it seems they're utilizing bloggers/vloggers as a free resource to help disseminate info. The 120 minute thing is being reported by multiple sources and the odds are slim that every single one of them are wrong.
> 
> Another reason I think the 120 minute rule exists is *Maxpass users have posted that it worked the same way*. It was 90 minutes instead of 120, but it worked for stacking. Disney never published anything about that either.


Legacy paper FPs also had a similar feature built in (i.e., you could pull another FP after 2 hours if your return time was further out than that).

Since they've used a similar model for multiple iterations of line skipping products, it seems reasonable to predict they would incorporate this kind of feature in G+ unless it will somehow throw a wrench in the works.


----------



## Disturbia

Lalalyn said:


> Right now, I won’t say it alone is making us reconsider our plans. It is the total price and thinking what else we could do for that money. Family of 5. We had FP+ system down and never waited in lines more than maybe 50 minutes. Tickets for our week would be be $3000 for 6 day non-park hopper. Add in ILL and Genie+ and that is $4200, roughly. Add in onsite hotel, food, airfare and we are looking at 10k.
> 
> We went for a week in 2015, stayed at Poly and spent $5500 total!


We downgraded our AKL-kidani 1 bedroom to AOA Nemo and saved $2700.  This is resort+7 day tickets.  Now I can pay for genie+, LL, dessert parties and all my dining - Space220, BOG, Ohana, Boma, Tusker

We have 4 riders and one infant so each time we will be multiplying LL and genie+ by 4.


----------



## deltadisney

Does anyone know if ILL$ allows you to choose the ride time or do you have to purchase the time it gives you?  In other words, if I want to park hop to HS later in the day, can I wake up at 7:00 and select a late afternoon time for ROR, or do I have to continue checking throughout the day for when a late afternoon time is available?


----------



## ucfknight

Grumpy by Birth said:


> Disney is famous for giving incomplete information. It allows them to make changes without changing something they published earlier.
> 
> *For instance, it was pretty well known that you could show up late for your 1-hour FP return window and you would still be permitted to ride. It was never published anywhere by Disney but it was a long-standing practice. Similarly, if you are in line for an attraction when the park closes, you still get to ride. It's not written anywhere on a Disney website but that's the way it has always been.*
> 
> There have been enough media and TA reports that indicate that there will be a 120-minute waiting period for selecting a second G+ for me to feel pretty confident that it's true. Or else a lot of people really didn't have their listening ears on when that part of the presentation was running.



And in the FP+ days you could show up 5 minutes earlier than the beginning of your FP+ window or up to 15 minutes later than the end of the window and still get a green Mickey. Disney never posted this information in writing, of course.


----------



## Sunelis

deltadisney said:


> Does anyone know if ILL$ allows you to choose the ride time or do you have to purchase the time it gives you?  In other words, if I want to park hop to HS later in the day, can I wake up at 7:00 and select a late afternoon time for ROR, or do I have to continue checking throughout the day for when a late afternoon time is available?


From what I understand yes for ILL$ you can choose any available time.


----------



## Disturbia

Grasshopper2016 said:


> Disney wants you to think of the price of ILL$ as the cost to skip the line, not the cost to ride the ride.  And there really is something to that.  It can be quite valuable to skip a hot and tedious line of 90 minutes or more---especially if you have whining kids and only limited time in the park, and have already sunk huge sums of money into your vacation.   But at some point, it's hard to avoid feeling like you just paid $10, $20, or more to ride a ride.  Especially with short rides like SDMT, that is a tough pill to swallow.  You're paying more money than it costs to see a movie, for a cute and fun but hardly thrilling ride that lasts less than 1% as long as a movie!   Even if you don't add up the costs for multiple rides and multiple family members over multiple days, it's still a lot of money!  And you're right that, once you do add it up . . . .


To think we had free fast passes, dining and resort offers just last year..

Timon: stop living in the past Pumba!


----------



## katyringo

deltadisney said:


> Does anyone know if ILL$ allows you to choose the ride time or do you have to purchase the time it gives you?  In other words, if I want to park hop to HS later in the day, can I wake up at 7:00 and select a late afternoon time for ROR, or do I have to continue checking throughout the day for when a late afternoon time is available?


 
you can choose the time for the individual lightening lane upgrades.


----------



## LSUfan4444

DisneyFive said:


> That certainly was not the case late July/early August.




I was there for 9 nights over July 4 and another 4 nights in late August evacuating for Hurricane Ida...lines were long, actual standby times were low. It's been that way for over a year now outside of a few exceptions. Rope dropping, being there late and usual "tips and tricks" made things much more simple to spend the days without tons of time in standby lines


----------



## WDWRNTLK

Please lmk if there is a better thread for this, but I have 2 things to add/ask. 
1- Our son is now old enough that we were looking forward to skipping RD and staying until park close instead. Sooooo that means that I'm going to have to set an alarm everyday at 0700 so that I can make G+ reservations if we are going to use it that day? That freaking sucks. I'm not a person that can get back to sleep once I've gotten up. Ugh. 
2- If we're using G+ that day and I get up at 0700, can I tell it that we won't be in the park until later in the day? Or does it give 1st time available no matter what? Ex if I want mine train but we aren't getting to the park until 1PM, will it give me a 1000 reservation or can I tell it that I want something after 1PM?
Do we even know the answers to these questions yet?


----------



## LSUfan4444

fly girl said:


> The only major issue I have with G+ is no re-rides.



This is why, to me, early morning G+ is not really an advantage. Thats where rope dropping should pay big dividends I'm thinking. Like others have said, I think the key here is to use them in the manner that I used FP+ which to me, was never about quantity and more about quality (certain attractions at certain times). The implementation still remains to be seen but with our touring style of rope drop, a normal mid day break and coming back int he evening I could see myself using both ILL and G+ if I could schedule a ILL just before we left the park around lunch then G+ and my second ILL in the afternoon evening.


----------



## LSUfan4444

cm8 said:


> I hope I’m wrong but it’s a feeling I’m getting!



The pricing will be static but very few will cost $20


----------



## Isabelle12345

I guess we don’t know the question to that yet, but does your first LL selection have to be in the park where your park reservation is?
For instance, we are planning on RD Animal Kingdom, take advantage of the early entry to do Fop and Navi, then Everest and dinosaur standby, then do a trail or two and go back to the resort, then go to Magic Kingdom in the afternoon 
Could I book LLs for popular rides at MK starting at 2PM without making a first LL in AK?


----------



## Marionnette

WDWRNTLK said:


> Please lmk if there is a better thread for this, but I have 2 things to add/ask.
> 1- Our son is now old enough that we were looking forward to skipping RD and staying until park close instead. Sooooo that means that I'm going to have to set an alarm everyday at 0700 so that I can make G+ reservations if we are going to use it that day? That freaking sucks. I'm not a person that can get back to sleep once I've gotten up. Ugh.
> 2- If we're using G+ that day and I get up at 0700, can I tell it that we won't be in the park until later in the day? Or does it give 1st time available no matter what? Ex if I want mine train but we aren't getting to the park until 1PM, will it give me a 1000 reservation or can I tell it that I want something after 1PM?
> Do we even know the answers to these questions yet?


G+ offers the next available return time for a party of your size. Getting up at 7 AM to book your first G+ may not be necessary. So much will depend on how quickly some attraction's G+ get booked up. If you want SDD or MFSR, they are likely to go quickly. If you want IASW, chances good are that sleeping in won't hurt you.


----------



## lorileahb

Is genie going to magically appear in my Disney app or am I going to have to update it?


----------



## Marionnette

Isabelle12345 said:


> I guess we don’t know the question to that yet, but does your first LL selection have to be in the park where your park reservation is?
> For instance, we are planning on RD Animal Kingdom, take advantage of the early entry to do Fop and Navi, then Everest and dinosaur standby, then do a trail or two and go back to the resort, then go to Magic Kingdom in the afternoon
> Could I book LLs for popular rides at MK starting at 2PM without making a first LL in AK?


Are you referring to G+ selections or ILL$ attractions when you say LL? I think the answer would be different for the two.

For ILL$, you will be able to choose a return time when you pay for them. It's possible, but not confirmed, that you could purchase them for your second or third park of the day.

G+ selections are "next available" time slots. So getting G+ selections at a second or third park for later in the day will require waiting and constant monitoring of return times for the "popular" rides. They could easily book up by mid-afternoon.


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

lorileahb said:


> Is genie going to magically appear in my Disney app or am I going to have to update it?


I'm assuming there will be an app update.  The big question is 'when'....


----------



## Sunelis

ENJDisneyFan said:


> I'm assuming there will be an app update.  The big question is 'when'....


The 18th at 11h59 pm.


----------



## Delirium

I really, really hope this is a colossal flop.  It may have appeal to some Disney visitors, but I have to think the vast majority would prefer FP+.


----------



## Turksmom

Sunelis said:


> The 18th at 11h59 pm.


It's Disney IT- the 21st at 9:32am, after wiping everybody's hotel, dining, and park reservations and being completely inaccessible for 3 days.


----------



## lorileahb

Turksmom said:


> It's Disney IT- the 21st at 9:32am, after wiping everybody's hotel, dining, and park reservations and being completely inaccessible for 3 days.



Big ADR glitch of 2020 is flashing through my mind...


----------



## scrappinginontario

Delirium said:


> I really, really hope this is a colossal flop.  It may have appeal to some Disney visitors, but I have to think the vast majority would prefer FP+.


I really don't see them ever going back to FP+.  FP+ was free and this will earn them money. It's extremely rare for a company to go back and offer something free when the new system is earning money for them.

Paid FP have been rumored and a topic of conversation here for over 2 years.  It's just now becoming a reality.  I may not purchase it or, not purchase it often but I'm not holding my breath that they'll go back to free FPs.


----------



## Bibbobboo2u

Turksmom said:


> It's Disney IT- the 21st at 9:32am, after wiping everybody's hotel, dining, and park reservations and being completely inaccessible for 3 days.


Time for me to screenshot ADRs for upcoming trip!!


----------



## Disturbia

At midnight is when my tickets get grayed out and I can’t search for dining. 

Also Disney clearly stated that LL is limited and can run out; I would think Remy (because it’s new) and ROTR (demand) are the ones more at risk of selling out.  Also check if park passes are sold out, busy day would mean more demand.  You can book both LL rides in your second park it’s just 2 limit per day.  *If you want a Remy BG, you need to have that as your first park (park reservation required) even if passes are available after 2 pm when you’re allowed to park hop.*

I think Genie+ was intended to be more of an in park thing.  If there is a limit of 8 (we don’t know if we have to select few top pick rides for Genie+ and it uses the same screen as Genie-limits 8, erases ride if you rode standby).  If they do limit then I can see availability for Big Thunder still available at 11 am.


----------



## Disturbia

Screenshot everything as you need proof if something goes wrong, even a holdup during payment etc


----------



## Disturbia

lorileahb said:


> Big ADR glitch of 2020 is flashing through my mind...


There was an ADR glitch on Sept 20,2021 where no one could get in to book Space220

Also, took me 25 minutes and continuously refreshing logging in, putting in code from email to get dessert party booked just 2 days ago.  Payment area was blank.  Safari didn’t work; finally the reservation appeared in the app and I booked

Be prepared…,


----------



## lorileahb

Disturbia said:


> There was an ADR glitch on Sept 20,2021 where no one could get in to book Space220
> 
> Also, took me 25 minutes and continuously refreshing logging in, putting in code from email to get dessert party booked just 2 days ago.  Payment area was blank.  Safari didn’t work; finally the reservation appeared in the app and I booked
> 
> Be prepared…,



Last year, there was an ADR glitch where a ton of reservations opened up - so people took them, including folks that let a lot of other reservations go.  Turns out the reservations that opened up weren't real... people that let other reservations go had then lost their reservations (CRT, Ohana, BOG, Ogas, Chef Mickey's, etc.).  Disney actually issued $25 gift cards for each reservation lost.  Oy!


----------



## jodybird511

Delirium said:


> I really, really hope this is a colossal flop.  It may have appeal to some Disney visitors, but I have to think the vast majority would prefer FP+.


I just don't get this mindset.  I understand having concerns about how this _potentially_ could play out, but there are _so_ many unanswered questions at this point, I don't think it makes sense to just hope it all fails.  I prefer to instead think along the lines of "I'm nervous that this _might _not be a better system, but let's hope we're surprised!"  There were many people with similar concerns prior to FP+, and now obviously, many of those people just wish FP+ could return.  Let's at least keep open minds!


----------



## DisneyFive

LSUfan4444 said:


> I was there for 9 nights over July 4 and another 4 nights in late August evacuating for Hurricane Ida...lines were long, actual standby times were low. It's been that way for over a year now outside of a few exceptions. Rope dropping, being there late and usual "tips and tricks" made things much more simple to spend the days without tons of time in standby lines



This isn't my first rodeo.

Of course lines were physically long since they weren't using all queues. (FP and standby).  The actual standby waits were also LONG.  We've been many days this exact same time of year, as well as many days during historically slow times.  Even with arriving very early and staying late we still waited in lines FAR more than with FP+.  I'm tired of people trying to convince me that my experience was different than what I experienced.  With FP+, heck even paper FP, rarely did we EVER stand in a line more than 15 minutes.  This year there were few times where it wasn't MUCH longer than that, even with arriving 30+ minutes to 1 hour before park open and staying till close.

Speaking of early entry and staying late...

It royally stunk having to get up so early this year.  Parks filled much faster than they did when FP+ was around because the cat was out of the bag.  Guests knew they had to get there early if they wanted a chance at the headliners with "low wait."
Staying late helped for perhaps a ride or two, but for example FOP still took us over 60 minutes standby at the end of the night.  With FP we never waited over 15 minutes (and that was during peak hours of the day).  Space Mountain took us over 30 minutes... etc...

Feel free to browse my play by play summaries of our trip this year.  I documented actual wait times for all the attractions we rode, versus the posted wait times.
https://www.disboards.com/threads/h...g-park-hopping.3807247/page-662#post-63232483
I welcome G+ as an option to help us get on more attractions with less wait, even though we have to pay for it.  My wish would have been to have FP+ back, but that ship has sailed.

Dan


----------



## Delirium

scrappinginontario said:


> I really don't see them ever going back to FP+.  FP+ was free and this will earn them money. It's extremely rare for a company to go back and offer something free when the new system is earning money for them.
> 
> Paid FP have been rumored and a topic of conversation here for over 2 years.  It's just now becoming a reality.  I may not purchase it or, not purchase it often but I'm not holding my breath that they'll go back to free FPs.



Oh.  I agree it's highly unlikely they go back.  I just hope Genie flops enough so that they significantly miss their revenue targets.  That way, maybe they will learn that even a Disney consumer has a breaking point on the amount of up-charges you add and benefits you take away.  

As of right now, I have absolutely zero desire to return.  The Disney vacation that I used to love no longer exists.  There is no more magic for me.  And, once Disney stops being magical, it becomes like everything else.  Vacationers must ask themselves, whether or not the product justifies the cost?   In my opinion, it does not.  Disney went into all of these changes too hard and too fast.  Not just Genie+, but all of the perks that have been taken away.  It's truly sad.

Even this forum seems to have a lot less traffic than it used to.  To me, that's a sign that I am not alone in the way I feel.


----------



## Delirium

jodybird511 said:


> I just don't get this mindset.  I understand having concerns about how this _potentially_ could play out, but there are _so_ many unanswered questions at this point, I don't think it makes sense to just hope it all fails.  I prefer to instead think along the lines of "I'm nervous that this _might _not be a better system, but let's hope we're surprised!"  There were many people with similar concerns prior to FP+, and now obviously, many of those people just wish FP+ could return.  Let's at least keep open minds!



If it doesn't fail, then Disney management feels validated that they can do whatever they want with no consequences.  For me, they already have gone too far with all of the changes they made, but I hold out hope that they realize they have been pushing too hard too fast before they cross the point of no return.  

Disney is not too big to fail.  History is littered with companies that used to be dominant in the marketplace, but were poorly managed to the point they could not recover.  Disney could be headed down that path with their resorts and theme parks with many of these recent decisions.


----------



## jodybird511

Delirium said:


> If it doesn't fail, then Disney management feels validated that they can do whatever they want with no consequences.  For me, they already have gone too far with all of the changes they made, but I hold out hope that they realize they have been pushing too hard too fast before they cross the point of no return.
> 
> Disney is not too big to fail.  History is littered with companies that used to be dominant in the marketplace, but were poorly managed to the point they could not recover.  Disney could be headed down that path with their resorts and theme parks with many of these recent decisions.


Understood.  Again, though, is there zero possibility that this won't improve guest experience?  None? Zilch?  Because hoping that Disney will see that they "have gone too far" assumes that this new system is a terrible one.  I mean, I guess if the belief is that no matter how good Genie+ may turn out to be, Disney should not be adding to cost, then sure...this thinking makes sense.  I can say I'm going to just wait and see, though.


----------



## thptrek

lorileahb said:


> Big ADR glitch of 2020 is flashing through my mind...


That would be a circus. Just in case I am printing out all my confirmations for next week. As Scar says "Be Prepared"


----------



## Grasshopper2016

DisneyFive said:


> This isn't my first rodeo.
> 
> Of course lines were physically long since they weren't using all queues. (FP and standby). The actual standby waits were also LONG. We've been many days this exact same time of year, as well as many days during historically slow times. Even with arriving very early and staying late we still waited in lines FAR more than with FP+. I'm tired of people trying to convince me that my experience was different than what I experienced. With FP+, heck even paper FP, rarely did we EVER stand in a line more than 15 minutes. This year there were few times where it wasn't MUCH longer than that, even with arriving 30+ minutes to 1 hour before park open and staying till close.


For what it's worth, we went in mid- to late- July, and our experience was just like yours.  Yes, the lines moved faster than they used to.  But they were still very long (except in the opening and closing hours).  And we still spent much more time in line, and were able to go on significantly fewer rides, than we used to with FP+ on days with similar crowds.


----------



## yellowfish78

I'm lucky I won't be at Disney in January.  We can stress and worry and discuss all day and it will still be different by the time it starts. 

I'm curious about the long term of it all. How many people (1st time visitors) will buy a length of stay G+? How many 1st timers that didn't buy morning of or realize what it is halfway through their day/stay will buy at 2pm in the afternoon when lines in the summer are 1.5 hours long? How many repeat visitors/extreme planners will buy on a day by day basis? What will the most popular park be for G+? What are they doing for AP holders?  Do they still sell battery chargers in the parks since this is all phone based?! LOL

I can see Disney doing this as a package promotion too - instead of free dining, you get Genie+ included!

Disney WANTS this to work (even the basic Genie) because if we are in lines, we aren't spending money.


----------



## Sunelis

yellowfish78 said:


> I'm lucky I won't be at Disney in January.  We can stress and worry and discuss all day and it will still be different by the time it starts.
> 
> I'm curious about the long term of it all. How many people (1st time visitors) will buy a length of stay G+? How many 1st timers that didn't buy morning of or realize what it is halfway through their day/stay will buy at 2pm in the afternoon when lines in the summer are 1.5 hours long? How many repeat visitors/extreme planners will buy on a day by day basis? What will the most popular park be for G+? What are they doing for AP holders?  Do they still sell battery chargers in the parks since this is all phone based?! LOL
> 
> *I can see Disney doing this as a package promotion too - instead of free dining, you get Genie+ included!*
> 
> Disney WANTS this to work (even the basic Genie) because if we are in lines, we aren't spending money.



To the Bolded... I would be 100% for this, or included in the higher tier annual passes.


----------



## LSUfan4444

yellowfish78 said:


> Disney WANTS this to work (even the basic Genie) because if we are in lines, we aren't spending money.



My approach will be to buy G+ and ILL BUT do not ADD it to my budget, which is what Disney wants. I'll book less ADRs, stay off-site, buy less merch, etc. 

That in itself will lead to more revenue because unlike food, merch, etc. there is no production cost associated with my purchase but I do have a fear the less money spent in the parks will result in staffing cuts.


----------



## Disturbia

lorileahb said:


> Last year, there was an ADR glitch where a ton of reservations opened up - so people took them, including folks that let a lot of other reservations go.  Turns out the reservations that opened up weren't real... people that let other reservations go had then lost their reservations (CRT, Ohana, BOG, Ogas, Chef Mickey's, etc.).  Disney actually issued $25 gift cards for each reservation lost.  Oy!


I didn’t know other restaurants has also opened up (last nov).  We were in the parks that day.  I had Oga’s that day and was able to change it in the morning (by an hour).  We had to wait over 40 mins because they were accommodating extra people.


----------



## Marionnette

jodybird511 said:


> Understood.  Again, though, is there zero possibility that this won't improve guest experience?  None? Zilch?  Because hoping that Disney will see that they "have gone too far" assumes that this new system is a terrible one.  I mean, I guess if the belief is that no matter how good Genie+ may turn out to be, Disney should not be adding to cost, then sure...this thinking makes sense.  I can say I'm going to just wait and see, though.


There are a few areas where I see Genie+/IA$ is not an improvement on the guest experience and this is based on what we already know.

The first is the impact it will have on those who choose not to pay for it. They will be faced with longer standby waits than they do now.

For those who do elect to pay for it, the choice to do so may mean dropping something else such as a character meal, dessert party or even staying offsite in order to offset the cost. To me, that's a zero sum game. Disney doesn't get more revenue, the guest doesn't get more happiness.

Then there's the need to get up before 7 AM while on vacation to book IA$ and (maybe) that first G+, whereas FP+ allowed you to choose your first 3 FP days in advance. Yes, I know! You don't HAVE to buy either. But we're talking about how G+/IA$ might improve the guest experience.

There's very little flexibility to G+. You either take "next available" or constantly check for a time that suits you better.

G+ comes with no guarantees that you will get a set number of experiences for your money. In fact, Disney has already stated that G+ will never sell out BUT the number of reservation spots are finite. A busy day could mean a lot more G+ buyers all vying for those limited slots. At least with the CL FP+, you knew you were getting 3 paid FPs daily for the money you spent.

True, there will be guests that paid for G+ and every IA$ who will walk away thinking it's the best thing since sliced bread. But I also feel that there will be quite a few who will feel ripped off and highly dissatisfied with the overall experience as well. Especially given the confusing terms that Disney has chosen.

I guess the question is: Who's level of satisfaction is Disney interested in - every guest or only those with deep pockets?


----------



## Disturbia

DisneyFive said:


> This isn't my first rodeo.
> 
> Of course lines were physically long since they weren't using all queues. (FP and standby).  The actual standby waits were also LONG.  We've been many days this exact same time of year, as well as many days during historically slow times.  Even with arriving very early and staying late we still waited in lines FAR more than with FP+.  I'm tired of people trying to convince me that my experience was different than what I experienced.  With FP+, heck even paper FP, rarely did we EVER stand in a line more than 15 minutes.  This year there were few times where it wasn't MUCH longer than that, even with arriving 30+ minutes to 1 hour before park open and staying till close.
> 
> Speaking of early entry and staying late...
> 
> It royally stunk having to get up so early this year.  Parks filled much faster than they did when FP+ was around because the cat was out of the bag.  Guests knew they had to get there early if they wanted a chance at the headliners with "low wait."
> Staying late helped for perhaps a ride or two, but for example FOP still took us over 60 minutes standby at the end of the night.  With FP we never waited over 15 minutes (and that was during peak hours of the day).  Space Mountain took us over 30 minutes... etc...
> 
> Feel free to browse my play by play summaries of our trip this year.  I documented actual wait times for all the attractions we rode, versus the posted wait times.
> https://www.disboards.com/threads/h...g-park-hopping.3807247/page-662#post-63232483
> I welcome G+ as an option to help us get on more attractions with less wait, even though we have to pay for it.  My wish would have been to have FP+ back, but that ship has sailed.
> 
> Dan


In June we waited 60 mins at close for FOP (posted 55); Star tours we waited 40 mins (posted 15)


----------



## Disturbia

Delirium said:


> Oh.  I agree it's highly unlikely they go back.  I just hope Genie flops enough so that they significantly miss their revenue targets.  That way, maybe they will learn that even a Disney consumer has a breaking point on the amount of up-charges you add and benefits you take away.
> 
> As of right now, I have absolutely zero desire to return.  The Disney vacation that I used to love no longer exists.  There is no more magic for me.  And, once Disney stops being magical, it becomes like everything else.  Vacationers must ask themselves, whether or not the product justifies the cost?   In my opinion, it does not.  Disney went into all of these changes too hard and too fast.  Not just Genie+, but all of the perks that have been taken away.  It's truly sad.
> 
> Even this forum seems to have a lot less traffic than it used to.  To me, that's a sign that I am not alone in the way I feel.


I hope the prices adjust (reduce) with demand and that everyone can enjoy being in the parks again (riding rides/watching parades/meet&greets)


----------



## Disturbia

Delirium said:


> If it doesn't fail, then Disney management feels validated that they can do whatever they want with no consequences.  For me, they already have gone too far with all of the changes they made, but I hold out hope that they realize they have been pushing too hard too fast before they cross the point of no return.
> 
> Disney is not too big to fail.  History is littered with companies that used to be dominant in the marketplace, but were poorly managed to the point they could not recover.  Disney could be headed down that path with their resorts and theme parks with many of these recent decisions.


Reminds me of a case study we did with Starbucks moving into the sandwich business (away from their core competency). That was a big fail and they had to move back.  I think Disney will eventually stop catering to impulsive buyers and short term profits and go back to being an enjoyable family vacation spot; Genie+ might evolve to make things better; who knows..


----------



## ucfknight

jodybird511 said:


> I just don't get this mindset.  I understand having concerns about how this _potentially_ could play out, but there are _so_ many unanswered questions at this point, I don't think it makes sense to just hope it all fails.  I prefer to instead think along the lines of "I'm nervous that this _might _not be a better system, but let's hope we're surprised!"  There were many people with similar concerns prior to FP+, and now obviously, many of those people just wish FP+ could return.  Let's at least keep open minds!



There are 2 perspectives from which to look at this:

1) For guests who will shell out the $15 per day per per person and will pay for ILL without batting an eye because money is no object for their vacation, the question is if the new G+/ILL system is better or worse than FP+ for making their days easier with lower overall wait times. This is the unknown at this point. It may end up being better for them, although from everything I've seen that seems unlikely. Only 1 use per attraction per day, one-at-a-time booking with a "take it or leave it" return time, not having 3 rides prebooked, having to be up and worried at 7:00 am on vacation trying to get your first G+ of the day, and only being able to ride 2 out of the 8 best rides per day if you are a park hopper all seem to be recipes for a worse experience. The jury is still out, though, until the system is out in the wild and is put to the test. It may turn out to be an overall better system than FP+ for these guests if it is lightly used and they can get quick return times for in-demand attractions. 

2) For frequent visitor or local APs who are not going to give Disney an extra $15 per person per day and won't be paying $7 to ??? to ride ILL, the new system is objectively worse for them than FP+ and objectively worse than the current "all guests use standby system". There is no way around that fact. With FP+ you were guaranteed to get 3 rides with low wait times before you ever stepped into the park, and could continue to pull new FP+ throughout the day. If you aren't willing to pay for G+/ILL on top of the cost of your tickets, you will be in standby for every ride of the day. Those standby lines will be longer than they are currently since LL guests will be skipping the standby line to get ahead of you. Depending on the LL:standby ratio of any particular ride, the difference in standby waits will range from "a little worse" to "way worse", but there is just no way the standby waits will be better than the current "everybody uses standby". For these guests the system will be worse and there is no way around this.


----------



## Disturbia

The thing is we can’t go back to FP+, so we have to stop comparing because that’s no longer an option.  Now the choice is 40 mins for Star tours and 60 mins for small world or $15…in 95 degree Florida heat btw


----------



## SCDisneyfanatic

I guess the Genie+ is really going to be good for some and not worth the cost for others.  But since you can get it for just certain days and not have to purchase for all days, I see some definite advantages for our upcoming trip.  We are focused on introducing our granddaughters (4 yo and 2 yo) to the Wonderful World of Disney!  So, by purchasing Genie+ for our Magic Kingdom days we can ensure getting them on the busier little kids rides like Peter Pan and Jungle Cruise and still be able to do the shorter lines like the Carousel and Small World.  On the other hand, going to somewhere like EPCOT or Animal Kingdom, no need for Genie+.  There aren't that many little kids rides at either and using the EE half hour will work well.  Then considering some of the rides at a place like EPCOT that they would ride (Frozen) isn't even included.  So, 2 MK days...5 tickets...$15 each...that's $150 cost to ensure they get to do what we really hope they can do.  Yes, that means a few less stuffed animals or maybe we skip having them do the Princess make-up (although I doubt Grandma will buy off on that) or we just increase our overall expected cost by $150.  For their enjoyment, I'll take it!!


----------



## Disturbia

Epcot and AK are enjoyable even without Genie+; you can eat at booths, enjoy the atmosphere shows etc.  I would get LLIA$ for FOP and Remy (our must do’s)


----------



## Jrb1979

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1448651255748853760
This will probably make a difference on how people book things.


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

Jrb1979 said:


> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1448651255748853760
> This will probably make a difference on how people book things.


So are we thinking with Epcot opening late, we will be able to book one G+ at 7am, but not book another until the park opens (assuming that opening is more than 2 hours in the future)?


----------



## Jrb1979

ENJDisneyFan said:


> So are we thinking with Epcot opening late, we will be able to book one G+ at 7am, but not book another until the park opens (assuming that opening is more than 2 hours in the future)?


That's the way its sounds but it makes sense. Otherwise a lot of LL would be gone quickly.


----------



## ucfknight

Disturbia said:


> I hope the prices adjust (reduce) with demand


I'm fairly confident that at some point after rollout they will go to prices that adjust with demand.
I'm not so confident that "reduce" will be one of the options considered by Disney execs.


----------



## scrappinginontario

SCDisneyfanatic said:


> I guess the Genie+ is really going to be good for some and not worth the cost for others.  But since you can get it for just certain days and not have to purchase for all days, I see some definite advantages for our upcoming trip.  We are focused on introducing our granddaughters (4 yo and 2 yo) to the Wonderful World of Disney!  So, by purchasing Genie+ for our Magic Kingdom days we can ensure getting them on the busier little kids rides like Peter Pan and Jungle Cruise and still be able to do the shorter lines like the Carousel and Small World.  On the other hand, going to somewhere like EPCOT or Animal Kingdom, no need for Genie+.  There aren't that many little kids rides at either and using the EE half hour will work well.  Then considering some of the rides at a place like EPCOT that they would ride (Frozen) isn't even included.  So, 2 MK days...5 tickets...$15 each...that's $150 cost to ensure they get to do what we really hope they can do.  Yes, that means a few less stuffed animals or maybe we skip *having them do the Princess make-up* (although I doubt Grandma will buy off on that) or we just increase our overall expected cost by $150.  For their enjoyment, I'll take it!!


Unfortunately *Bibbidi Bobbidi Boutique* may not be an option for you for to a couple of reasons.  BBB has not re-opened and when it does, there is a minimum age requirement of 3 years old.  

Don't mean to be a downer but wanted to share to save disappointment when you arrive.


----------



## Jrb1979

Disturbia said:


> I hope the prices adjust (reduce) with demand and that everyone can enjoy being in the parks again (riding rides/watching parades/meet&greets)


I doubt Genie+ will ever go lower then $15 and I highly doubt they will give it away free like they did with dining.  The individual rides might go lower in price.


----------



## elgerber

ENJDisneyFan said:


> I'm assuming there will be an app update.  The big question is 'when'....


yeah, this is exactly my question.  us Genie-pigs need to be ready next week.


----------



## LSUfan4444

Disturbia said:


> Epcot and AK are enjoyable even without Genie+; you can eat at booths, enjoy the atmosphere shows etc.  I would get LLIA$ for FOP and Remy (our must do’s)


Pretty much agree if you're going during a festival. We will be there for marathon weekend and AK is possibly skippable altogether but definitely nothing more than a hop to and see what we can do. Epcot will def be ILL for Remy and the rest we can do standby.


----------



## LSUfan4444

ENJDisneyFan said:


> So are we thinking with Epcot opening late, we will be able to book one G+ at 7am, but not book another until the park opens (assuming that opening is more than 2 hours in the future)?


Im so confused by those tweets. It seems like he says booking one every two hours was confirmed but that it won't be possible to do so at epcot.?


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

LSUfan4444 said:


> Im so confused by those tweets. It seems like he says booking one every two hours was confirmed but that it won't be possible to do so at epcot.?


That's how I was reading it too.  But it seems weird to have different rules for each park opening at a different time.  I really don't think Disney IT is that sophisticated LOL


----------



## Jrb1979

LSUfan4444 said:


> Im so confused by those tweets. It seems like he says booking one every two hours was confirmed but that it won't be possible to do so at epcot.?


The 2 hour thing only applies once in the park. He only used Epcot as an example as it opens so late.


----------



## elgerber

LSUfan4444 said:


> Im so confused by those tweets. It seems like he says booking one every two hours was confirmed but that it won't be possible to do so at epcot.?


He's just saying you can book another at Epcot before the park opens, like some were thinking you could.


----------



## LSUfan4444

Jrb1979 said:


> The 2 hour thing only applies once in the park. He only used Epcot as an example as it opens so late.


Didnt he say there was nothing addressing that though? not saying he's wrong but it sounds like he's making an affirmative statement and admitting it's speculation anyway but he's confident in his speculation.?

Doesnt matter anyway I guess..I'll just wait a few days to see anyway.


----------



## katyringo

I know we have many unanswered questions but can I say- and maybe I'm in the minority-

I am excited about this.  Yes it is change. Yes we have to learn a new system. Yes there may be some things about the old we loved that will be gone.. but maybe there will be some things about the new we will love?

Im in the boat if I hated the thought of booking fastpasses in advance and loved the maxpass system at Disneyland.  Never in many trips there even during the busiest times of the year were we unable to get a fastpass for the rides we wanted.


----------



## masupo

LSUfan4444 said:


> Im so confused by those tweets. It seems like he says booking one every two hours was confirmed but that it won't be possible to do so at epcot.?



He's saying the two hour rule is confirmed but he's talking about the speculation that people would be able to stack LL reservations before Epcot opens.

In theory, since Epcot opens at 11am some days, you could book one at 7am, one at 9am, and one at 11am. That would give people 3 LL reservations stacked before park opening. After park opening it would work the same as the other parks.

He's now saying (and I agree) that Disney will probably NOT allow that to happen. They will probably allow one reservation to be made at 7:00 and all the rest after the park opens.


----------



## Jrb1979

LSUfan4444 said:


> Didnt he say there was nothing addressing that though? not saying he's wrong but it sounds like he's making an affirmative statement and admitting it's speculation anyway but he's confident in his speculation.?
> 
> Doesnt matter anyway I guess..I'll just wait a few days to see anyway.


There is nothing addressing it but he is fairly confident it will the case. It does make sense. Otherwise a lot of LL will be booked before park opens.


----------



## masupo

elgerber said:


> He's just saying you can book another at Epcot before the park opens, like some were thinking you could.



He's saying that it's possible in theory, but that now  he doesn't think Disney will allow it.


----------



## Jrb1979

masupo said:


> He's saying that's possible in theory, but that now  he doesn't think Disney will allow it.


He was saying that most people were thinking that will be the case. I don't think Disney will allow it. You might as well bring back FP+ and give everyone 3


----------



## LSUfan4444

My point was that he says he's confident it won't be able to be done, although Disney confirmed it could be done but never really addresses whether it could be done or not. I guess maybe it was just poorly worded.


----------



## SCDisneyfanatic

scrappinginontario said:


> Unfortunately *Bibbidi Bobbidi Boutique* may not be an option for you for to a couple of reasons.  BBB has not re-opened and when it does, there is a minimum age requirement of 3 years old.
> 
> Don't mean to be a downer but wanted to share to save disappointment when you arrive.


Appreciate that information.  I think my beautiful bride was looking at the same sort of option at Shades of Green Resort.  Sure can't do it for the 4 yo though and leave out the 2 yo...that could cause issues!


----------



## masupo

LSUfan4444 said:


> My point was that he says he's confident it won't be able to be done, although Disney confirmed it could be done but never really addresses whether it could be done or not. I guess maybe it was just poorly worded.



I think we're interpreting it the same way, but I think my brain has a good Scott Gustin translator. He's saying Disney confirmed the two hour rule. Disney did not confirm whether the two hour rule will be applicable prior to park opening.


----------



## TexanInTheMidwest

SCDisneyfanatic said:


> Appreciate that information.  I think my beautiful bride was looking at the same sort of option at Shades of Green Resort.  Sure can't do it for the 4 yo though and leave out the 2 yo...that could cause issues!



Though it's not Bibbity Bobbity Boutique, the Four Seasons which is on Disney Property is doing kiddo beauty shop / dress ups:
https://www.fourseasons.com/orlando/spa/magical-moments-for-kids/


----------



## SCDisneyfanatic

TexanInTheMidwest said:


> Though it's not Bibbity Bobbity Boutique, the Four Seasons which is on Disney Property is doing kiddo beauty shop / dress ups:
> https://www.fourseasons.com/orlando/spa/magical-moments-for-kids/


Appreciate the information...good to know!


----------



## luv2cheer92

Delirium said:


> Oh.  I agree it's highly unlikely they go back.  I just hope Genie flops enough so that they significantly miss their revenue targets.  That way, maybe they will learn that even a Disney consumer has a breaking point on the amount of up-charges you add and benefits you take away.
> 
> As of right now, I have absolutely zero desire to return.  The Disney vacation that I used to love no longer exists.  There is no more magic for me.  And, once Disney stops being magical, it becomes like everything else.  Vacationers must ask themselves, whether or not the product justifies the cost?   In my opinion, it does not.  Disney went into all of these changes too hard and too fast.  Not just Genie+, but all of the perks that have been taken away.  It's truly sad.
> 
> Even this forum seems to have a lot less traffic than it used to.  To me, that's a sign that I am not alone in the way I feel.


ALL forums are dying due to social media. So that's a really poor benchmark to go by. 
I won't even touch the rest of your posts.


----------



## SCDisneyfanatic

Personally, I hope Genie and Genie + are great success stories!!  The Magic of Disney since I've been going (first time was 1976) has always been in the eye of the beholder.  You make magic by just letting go and reliving a little of your childhood and those dreams!  I'm so glad I will be able to share that with my granddaughters...and Genie+ is surely going to assist!


----------



## nurseberta

wisblue said:


> I assume that it will be the posted wait time determined the same way it has been for years. Those are usually inflated because of the difficulty, if not impossibility, of knowing how long it will take someone entering the line at that time to reach the ride.
> 
> I will probably still use Touring Plans to see if their “Expected” wait time is significantly different than the posted wait time.


do we think the expected wait times are temporarily less than usual because the LL or previously known as FP lanes have been in general not open?


----------



## Sunelis

nurseberta said:


> do we think the expected wait times are temporarily less than usual because the LL or previously known as FP lanes have been in general not open?


It's definitly a contributing factor because the ratio was somewhere around 8 FP riders to 1 stand-by....


----------



## scrappinginontario

nurseberta said:


> do we think the expected wait times are temporarily less than usual because the LL or previously known as FP lanes have been in general not open?


I would say partially and also that park attendance in general is down.


----------



## Avery&Todd

I posed this question in the "Fun" thread but perhaps its more applicable here..

Here's my question/predicament...

we fly in on Nov. 10th - and are headed to MK.   My plan is to have already added on Genie+ to our tickets when they are released so I'll already have it in place for Nov. 10th.

So...my "plan" is at 7am, when I'm sitting at the airport in NC waiting to board my 7:30am flight to MCO I should be able to go into my Genie + and get a LL for MK, right?  I'm assuming I will want to select a ride, I'm hoping for BTMMR, for later in the day, like 1pm or so....

BUT when I land, which will be 9:30am, can I go ahead and sign up for another LL ride for MK since my BTMMR will still be over 120 minutes away and the park is open or do I have to wait until I'm IN the park to get my "longer than 120 min wait" LL?

If I have to wait until Im IN the park, does that mean, when I tap in to MK at 11:00 (fingers crossed since we're at VGF) that I should THEN be able to get a 2nd LL ride at MK?

Thoughts? 

*UPDATE* - since I originally posted this question, I did get a response saying that for my first LL attraction pick, I can't pick my time, I'm basically given the first available time - so my plan of trying to get a BTMMR at 1pm is a fail from the start, right since I'm thinking if the park opens at 9am, the system would offer me a LL time of 10am-ish..or something like that..

and in my case, I may just have to wait until next week when the system goes live and see how it really works!


----------



## bauermj

Disturbia said:


> Epcot and AK are enjoyable even without Genie+; you can eat at booths, enjoy the atmosphere shows etc.  I would get LLIA$ for FOP and Remy (our must do’s)


This is exactly how our family plans on doing it at a first glance, though they will also get me to shell out LLIA$ for Frozen due to my favorite five year old girl.


----------



## SCDisneyfanatic

bauermj said:


> This is exactly how our family plans on doing it at a first glance, though they will also get me to shell out LLIA$ for Frozen due to my favorite five year old girl.


I was thinking the same since our two princesses will want to do Frozen at least once or twice.  Question: can you purchase the LLIA$ in advance and pick a time or is it like the Genie+ and you get next available?  Or, can you look at the standby and if it's long, just buy entry then?  That would be a great option.


----------



## luv2cheer92

scrappinginontario said:


> I would say partially and also that park attendance in general is down.


Idk about that, the parks have been pretty crowded lately.


----------



## scrappinginontario

SCDisneyfanatic said:


> can you look at the standby and if it's long, just buy entry then?  That would be a great option.


Frozen Ever After is part of ILL$ so you choose your time.


----------



## scrappinginontario

luv2cheer92 said:


> Idk about that, the parks have been pretty crowded lately.


'Lately' ie. the past week, possibly but we had weeks of people sharing low wait times.


----------



## luv2cheer92

scrappinginontario said:


> 'Lately' ie. the past week, possibly but we had weeks of people sharing low wait times.


There were low waits when I was *actually* there. The parks were nuts.


----------



## JakeAZ

scrappinginontario said:


> but we had weeks of people sharing low wait times.


Kiss those goodbye until sometime after Christmas.


----------



## SCDisneyfanatic

scrappinginontario said:


> Frozen Ever After is part of ILL$ so you choose your time.


Will ILL$ also be on the MDE App?  I assume if it is it will be added the same time as Genie+.


----------



## JakeAZ

SCDisneyfanatic said:


> Will ILL$ also be on the MDE App?  I assume if it is it will be added the same time as Genie+.


I'd put that at a 105% possibility.  Gotta jack up that revenue stream.


----------



## Disturbia

Avery&Todd said:


> I posed this question in the "Fun" thread but perhaps its more applicable here..
> 
> Here's my question/predicament...
> 
> we fly in on Nov. 10th - and are headed to MK.   My plan is to have already added on Genie+ to our tickets when they are released so I'll already have it in place for Nov. 10th.
> 
> So...my "plan" is at 7am, when I'm sitting at the airport in NC waiting to board my 7:30am flight to MCO I should be able to go into my Genie + and get a LL for MK, right?  I'm assuming I will want to select a ride, I'm hoping for BTMMR, for later in the day, like 1pm or so....
> 
> BUT when I land, which will be 9:30am, can I go ahead and sign up for another LL ride for MK since my BTMMR will still be over 120 minutes away and the park is open or do I have to wait until I'm IN the park to get my "longer than 120 min wait" LL?
> 
> If I have to wait until Im IN the park, does that mean, when I tap in to MK at 11:00 (fingers crossed since we're at VGF) that I should THEN be able to get a 2nd LL ride at MK?
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> *UPDATE* - since I originally posted this question, I did get a response saying that for my first LL attraction pick, I can't pick my time, I'm basically given the first available time - so my plan of trying to get a BTMMR at 1pm is a fail from the start, right since I'm thinking if the park opens at 9am, the system would offer me a LL time of 10am-ish..or something like that..
> 
> and in my case, I may just have to wait until next week when the system goes live and see how it really works!



With the free genie, which will give you a suggestion when to ride when rides have lowest waits, you don’t have a LL access (it will keep trying to temp you to purchase $15 Genie+).  You can book both LLIA$ at 7 am for say SDMT and Space.   2 hours before you enter the park you can pay for Genie+ and get the next available (if there is anything available); it will not let you overlap or conflict with dining, LLIA$. Genie+ can still be purchased even if you have nothing to use it for.

see post 3579 for screenshot


----------



## SCDisneyfanatic

Disturbia said:


> With the free genie, which will give you a suggestion when to ride when rides have lowest waits, you don’t have a LL access (it will keep trying to temp you to purchase $15 Genie+).  You can book both LLIA$ at 7 am for say SDMT and Space.   2 hours before you enter the park you can pay for Genie+ and get the next available (if there is anything available); it will not let you overlap or conflict, so if you only have 2 hours max already booked 2 LL I don’t think you can get anything, but Genie+ can still be purchased even if you have nothing to use it for.


Not sure I really followed that...but here's an example...think this is within the parameters?  I get Genie+ and we hit MK for the 30 minute EE...use Genie+ for a couple rides.  In the meantime, that morning I purchase an ILL$ for Frozen for 1600.  At 1500 I secure a Genie+ pass for Soarin' in the early evening.  We hop over to EPCOT at 1600 and do Frozen...wait for Soarin' time while we walk around the WS.


----------



## Disturbia

SCDisneyfanatic said:


> I was thinking the same since our two princesses will want to do Frozen at least once or twice.  Question: can you purchase the LLIA$ in advance and pick a time or is it like the Genie+ and you get next available?  Or, can you look at the standby and if it's long, just buy entry then?  That would be a great option.


Yes I think that’s what it’s intended to do; but I would check standby earlier vs evening (less availability).  You select a time when you pay LLIA$; Genie+ is next available but frozen and Remy (most popular in each park) are not included


----------



## Disturbia

SCDisneyfanatic said:


> Not sure I really followed that...but here's an example...think this is within the parameters?  I get Genie+ and we hit MK for the 30 minute EE...use Genie+ for a couple rides.  In the meantime, that morning I purchase an ILL$ for Frozen for 1600.  At 1500 I secure a Genie+ pass for Soarin' in the early evening.  We hop over to EPCOT at 1600 and do Frozen...wait for Soarin' time while we walk around the WS.


Yes I think this is correct


----------



## Disturbia

I think I would standby some rides during early entry and then highest wait rides select with genie+; so you need to know a day ahead what wait times are at MK


----------



## Avery&Todd

Disturbia said:


> With the free genie, which will give you a suggestion when to ride when rides have lowest waits, you don’t have a LL access (it will keep trying to temp you to purchase $15 Genie+).  You can book both LLIA$ at 7 am for say SDMT and Space.   2 hours before you enter the park you can pay for Genie+ and get the next available (if there is anything available); it will not let you overlap or conflict with dining, LLIA$. Genie+ can still be purchased even if you have nothing to use it for.
> 
> see post 3579 for screenshot


so my plan is to buy the Genie + so I have access to the LL attractions but I'm not buying the LLIA$ rides for MK that day since there are extended park hours for Deluxe guests and the plan would be to ride 7DMT that evening...and Space is never on my list to ride! HA!

the only dining we have that day is for dinner at LTT.....so that shouldnt be an issue..


----------



## Disturbia

Reviews for extended evening hours are great.  SDMT had 30 mins or less once the day guests get cleared (they can standby at the last minute), everything else was a walk-on.

This was our plan but we downgraded  AKL to AOA.


----------



## Miffy

I think that eventually Disney will come up with something that might be called Genie Ultra, because no matter how G+ and ILL$ will work, both still have restrictions, the biggest being you can ride each ride only once. The next-biggest restriction is having to use your phone all the time, trolling for LL selections at times that are at least somewhat convenient for you. Not to mention having to get up at 7 a.m. while you're on vacation.

With Genie Ultra, though, you wouldn't have any restrictions--well, not as many anyway. You'd be able to ride anything and everything except maybe Tron and RotR--those would be limited to twice each--and you wouldn't have to make reservations for anything. Just having Genie Ultra would give you access to the LL, like getting 100 anytime FP+s for the day.

I'm thinking this would cost about $250/person. Maybe that's too low. And there would be a limited quantity of them, like the front-of-line passes at Universal, which are also limited.

Do I think people would buy this? Absolutely. Something like this would completely eliminate the stress of standing in line, the stress of getting up at 7 a.m. and not knowing whether you were going to get the ride(s) you wanted at the times you wanted, and the stress of coming up against some restriction or requirement of G+ or ILL$ that you were unaware of.

Genie Ultra: Pay one price, go directly to the Lightning Lane of any ride you want (with 1 or 2 exceptions), and put away your phone! Enjoy your trip to WDW like never before. Only $1,000 extra a day for a family of four! 10% discount if you buy Genie Ultra for your family for length of stay.


----------



## OhDannyBoy

I'm still confused why people think it's mandatory to be up at 7AM for any of this.

Is it because we think availability will be nil by park opening? Like all the lightning Lane pay to play rides will be completely booked for the day aby7:03? Is the general consensus this will be the case for G+ too?


----------



## thptrek

OhDannyBoy, I think you are correct. I can't see Genie+ selections and LL$ selling out at 7:03am. I think that many are stressing too much about this. We really don't know until it goes live.  Now maybe on peak days like Christmas your selections may be more challenging. In the FP era, we were always able to grab some sort of FP during the day. Maybe not the exact ride we wanted but something else that was good.

My $0.2 is that ride capacity dedicated to Genie+ is going to be higher than FP of old because guests are paying for it. Disney can also moderate the amount of Genie+ availability on the fly using the data.  If  there are not enough Genie+ selections in the queue then they could open more up (backing the standby lines up). It should be a dynamic system.


----------



## scrappinginontario

nurseberta said:


> do we think the expected wait times are temporarily less than usual because the LL or previously known as FP lanes have been in general not open?





scrappinginontario said:


> I would say partially and also that park attendance in general is down.





JakeAZ said:


> Kiss those goodbye until sometime after Christmas.


Yes, my answer was in response to the post above.


----------



## fumanchu2488

Next week strategy question.  How do we think this will impact crowds?

I am going 16th - 22nd.  Two little kids (1 and 3) so we are not looking for tons of thrill rides.  Currently:

17th - MK
18th - HS
19th - Resort/EPCOT
20th - AK
21st - MK
22nd -  EPCOT

Question is, should I switch HS with AK to try and use Genie+ and ILL for the HS rides or do we think crowds will be really bad on the 20th so keep with AK?


----------



## BrotherCraig

fumanchu2488 said:


> Next week strategy question.  How do we think this will impact crowds?
> 
> I am going 16th - 22nd.  Two little kids (1 and 3) so we are not looking for tons of thrill rides.  Currently:
> 
> 17th - MK
> 18th - HS
> 19th - Resort/EPCOT
> 20th - AK
> 21st - MK
> 22nd -  EPCOT
> 
> Question is, should I switch HS with AK to try and use Genie+ and ILL for the HS rides or do we think crowds will be really bad on the 20th so keep with AK?




I would  switch AK and HS.  Mondays are usually a  little busier day for HS than Wednesdays for some reason.  By looking at TouringPlans - that week looks light but HS is the busier park because of GE.  best to use the Genie+ there in my opinion.


----------



## Disturbia

Miffy said:


> I think that eventually Disney will come up with something that might be called Genie Ultra, because no matter how G+ and ILL$ will work, both still have restrictions, the biggest being you can ride each ride only once. The next-biggest restriction is having to use your phone all the time, trolling for LL selections at times that are at least somewhat convenient for you. Not to mention having to get up at 7 a.m. while you're on vacation.
> 
> With Genie Ultra, though, you wouldn't have any restrictions--well, not as many anyway. You'd be able to ride anything and everything except maybe Tron and RotR--those would be limited to twice each--and you wouldn't have to make reservations for anything. Just having Genie Ultra would give you access to the LL, like getting 100 anytime FP+s for the day.
> 
> I'm thinking this would cost about $250/person. Maybe that's too low. And there would be a limited quantity of them, like the front-of-line passes at Universal, which are also limited.
> 
> Do I think people would buy this? Absolutely. Something like this would completely eliminate the stress of standing in line, the stress of getting up at 7 a.m. and not knowing whether you were going to get the ride(s) you wanted at the times you wanted, and the stress of coming up against some restriction or requirement of G+ or ILL$ that you were unaware of.
> 
> Genie Ultra: Pay one price, go directly to the Lightning Lane of any ride you want (with 1 or 2 exceptions), and put away your phone! Enjoy your trip to WDW like never before. Only $1,000 extra a day for a family of four! 10% discount if you buy Genie Ultra for your family for length of stay.


I think it called Club 33 or Golden Oaks property holder


----------



## Disturbia

Are you going to Boo Bash on 17th? MK closes at 8:30 pm that night


----------



## Disturbia

Does anyone know why Mon/Tue AK closes at 7 and then at 8 for the other days?  Not sure if these hours will trickle over to Nov.  I know MK and AK had an hour added just a week or so ago (select days)


----------



## Disturbia

fumanchu2488 said:


> Next week strategy question.  How do we think this will impact crowds?
> 
> I am going 16th - 22nd.  Two little kids (1 and 3) so we are not looking for tons of thrill rides.  Currently:
> 
> 17th - MK
> 18th - HS
> 19th - Resort/EPCOT
> 20th - AK
> 21st - MK
> 22nd -  EPCOT
> 
> Question is, should I switch HS with AK to try and use Genie+ and ILL for the HS rides or do we think crowds will be really bad on the 20th so keep with AK?


AK is open an hour late on 20th


----------



## TropicalDIS

OhDannyBoy said:


> I'm still confused why people think it's mandatory to be up at 7AM for any of this.
> 
> Is it because we think availability will be nil by park opening? Like all the lightning Lane pay to play rides will be completely booked for the day aby7:03? Is the general consensus this will be the case for G+ too?



I think for most days you probably won't need to be up at 7am. Weekends, and holidays are definite exceptions.
If you are really interested in SDD at HS, I would want to be up at 7am, I think that ride is going to be one of the ones to go the quickest on Genie+. What exactly quickest means, we won't know until a couple weeks of reports.

Like everything, we will need hands on reports from the vloggers and people on the forum who have used the system, before we start to get an idea of what the best strategy is.


----------



## TropicalDIS

JakeAZ said:


> Kiss those goodbye until sometime after Christmas.



Not sure about that. I expect the rest of October to be busy, but it usually is with schools off at various times all over the country. November will be very interesting to see what happens. 
December will naturally be busy.


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

Miffy said:


> I think that eventually Disney will come up with something that might be called Genie Ultra, because no matter how G+ and ILL$ will work, both still have restrictions, the biggest being you can ride each ride only once. The next-biggest restriction is having to use your phone all the time, trolling for LL selections at times that are at least somewhat convenient for you. Not to mention having to get up at 7 a.m. while you're on vacation.
> 
> With Genie Ultra, though, you wouldn't have any restrictions--well, not as many anyway. You'd be able to ride anything and everything except maybe Tron and RotR--those would be limited to twice each--and you wouldn't have to make reservations for anything. Just having Genie Ultra would give you access to the LL, like getting 100 anytime FP+s for the day.
> 
> I'm thinking this would cost about $250/person. Maybe that's too low. And there would be a limited quantity of them, like the front-of-line passes at Universal, which are also limited.
> 
> Do I think people would buy this? Absolutely. Something like this would completely eliminate the stress of standing in line, the stress of getting up at 7 a.m. and not knowing whether you were going to get the ride(s) you wanted at the times you wanted, and the stress of coming up against some restriction or requirement of G+ or ILL$ that you were unaware of.
> 
> Genie Ultra: Pay one price, go directly to the Lightning Lane of any ride you want (with 1 or 2 exceptions), and put away your phone! Enjoy your trip to WDW like never before. Only $1,000 extra a day for a family of four! 10% discount if you buy Genie Ultra for your family for length of stay.


They already have genie ultra.  It’s called VIP tours.


----------



## Einstein509

jodybird511 said:


> Understood.  Again, though, is there zero possibility that this won't improve guest experience?  None? Zilch?  Because hoping that Disney will see that they "have gone too far" assumes that this new system is a terrible one.  I mean, I guess if the belief is that no matter how good Genie+ may turn out to be, Disney should not be adding to cost, then sure...this thinking makes sense.  I can say I'm going to just wait and see, though.


Disney has failed.  Not often, but there are missteps.  Think Rivers of Light, no Ohana noodles, Alien Encounter,  Ursula's purple float....the good list is better than the bad list.  I just hope this Greedy, Greedy+, and IA$$$$$$$$$ is on the bad list.

For me it's about Disney being different and magical from the rest of the competition.  Now, it's becoming like the competition, which begs the question why I would want to spend money here.


----------



## denman007

When does this new ticketing system start? I know nothing about it but have plans for Dec 23-30.


----------



## Turksmom

Einstein509 said:


> Disney has failed.  Not often, but there are missteps.  Think Rivers of Light, no Ohana noodles, Alien Encounter,  Ursula's purple float....the good list is better than the bad list.  I just hope this Greedy, Greedy+, and IA$$$$$$$$$ is on the bad list.
> 
> For me it's about Disney being different and magical from the rest of the competition.  Now, it's becoming like the competition, which begs the question why I would want to spend money here.



I liked Rivers of Light. But that purple float. And Stitch's Great Escape


----------



## MainMom

denman007 said:


> When does this new ticketing system start? I know nothing about it but have plans for Dec 23-30.


 October 19th.


----------



## Disturbia

ucfknight said:


> I'm fairly confident that at some point after rollout they will go to prices that adjust with demand.
> I'm not so confident that "reduce" will be one of the options considered by Disney execs.


I’m thinking about Disneyland Paris and they did reduce prices


----------



## Disturbia

The worse would be if Disney suddenly changed which rides are LLIA$

I would check the ride list and hours a day before


----------



## Disturbia

It looks like there was a Super Fastpass and Ultimate Fastpass bundling rides at Disneyland Paris.  Maybe we will soon get a Super Genie+ and Ultimate Genie+

https://attractionsmagazine.com/disneyland-paris-paid-fastpass-range/


----------



## mickey916

Not sure if this was answered anywhere, but did any of the media previews mention how far in advance we can start building itineraries in the free Genie app? 60 days? or does it have to be closer to date of travel?


----------



## Disturbia

scrappinginontario said:


> Unfortunately *Bibbidi Bobbidi Boutique* may not be an option for you for to a couple of reasons.  BBB has not re-opened and when it does, there is a minimum age requirement of 3 years old.
> 
> Don't mean to be a downer but wanted to share to save disappointment when you arrive.


Is Ivy Trellis at the Grand Floridian open?  They can also do fancy hair styles and makeup.


----------



## Disturbia

luv2cheer92 said:


> There were low waits when I was *actually* there. The parks were nuts.


International guests will be flying in starting November


----------



## scrappinginontario

Disturbia said:


> Is Ivy Trellis at the Grand Floridian open?  They can also do fancy hair styles and makeup.


I'm not sure as I have not heard of it.  I searched 'Ivy Trellis' on the Disney website but it didn't return anything.  Is it part of the spa?  The spa is still closed.


----------



## Disturbia

scrappinginontario said:


> I'm not sure as I have not heard of it.  I searched 'Ivy Trellis' on the Disney website but it didn't return anything.  Is it part of the spa?  The spa is still closed.


No, it was where you could get a haircut/style; they had a perfectly princess updo that was even better than BBB

https://plandisney.disney.go.com/question/find-packages-offered-ivy-trellis-salon-kids-350339/
I think they changed the name to Bibbidi Bobbidi boutique at Grand Floridian.


----------



## wisblue

thptrek said:


> OhDannyBoy, I think you are correct. I can't see Genie+ selections and LL$ selling out at 7:03am. I think that many are stressing too much about this. We really don't know until it goes live.  Now maybe on peak days like Christmas your selections may be more challenging. In the FP era, we were always able to grab some sort of FP during the day. Maybe not the exact ride we wanted but something else that was good.
> 
> My $0.2 is that ride capacity dedicated to Genie+ is going to be higher than FP of old because guests are paying for it. Disney can also moderate the amount of Genie+ availability on the fly using the data.  If  there are not enough Genie+ selections in the queue then they could open more up (backing the standby lines up). It should be a dynamic system.



I thought that under the FP system about 80% (or more) of the ride capacity was dedicated to FP. It would be hard to increase that much without completely bringing the standby line to a halt.

In the early days I wouldn’t expect the Genie+ slots to go that quickly simply because not that many guests will be paying for it. But, as time goes on and the holiday crowds start arriving, the most desirable FPs might go pretty quickly, just like they did with paper FP and FP+.

I am hoping that, if the Genie app doesn’t do it, Touring Plans will include next available Genie+ times along with standby wait times so that those of us at home planning trips can see how this is going.


----------



## yellowfish78

mickey916 said:


> Not sure if this was answered anywhere, but did any of the media previews mention how far in advance we can start building itineraries in the free Genie app? 60 days? or does it have to be closer to date of travel?


I thought during the webinar AND in Molly's video it stated once you had active tickets that Genie would be active. I don't remember if they said 60 days out - but something did state that there would be push notifications to prompt for dining reservations etc...so I'm still thinking once tickets are active.


----------



## dominiondad

I'm seeing that for offsite guests, we can make Genie+ reservations when the park opens (onsite can start at 7:00 am).  I can see that meaning three things:
1.  The park is open when they allow onsite guests in (onsite ropedrop),
2.  The park is open when they allow offsite guests in (offsite ropedrop), or
3. The park is open at the advertised opening time (which kinda implies the thousand or so guests already in the park where in a closed park).


----------



## nurseberta

I don't want to miss a thing so I've been keeping up on this thread!! It's been work! Soon this will need to be titled "are you freaking out about Genie?" come on over here!!!!


----------



## scrappinginontario

dominiondad said:


> I'm seeing that for offsite guests, we can make Genie+ reservations when the park opens (onsite can start at 7:00 am).  I can see that meaning three things:
> 1.  The park is open when they allow onsite guests in (onsite ropedrop),
> 2.  The park is open when they allow offsite guests in (offsite ropedrop), or
> 3. The park is open at the advertised opening time (which kinda implies the thousand or so guests already in the park where in a closed park).


I would anticipate it to mean the official posted park opening time but it's one of the many questions we'll hopefully have answered in a few days.


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

scrappinginontario said:


> I would anticipate it to mean the official posted park opening time but it's one of the many questions we'll hopefully have answered in a few days.


Official park opening of which park though?  The one you have a reservation for?  The one that opens earliest?  Or???

Also, will it only show you G+ availability for your reserved park?  Or for every park, since hopping is an option?   Just some of the questions in my head.


----------



## Violetspider

dominiondad said:


> I'm seeing that for offsite guests, we can make Genie+ reservations when the park opens (onsite can start at 7:00 am).  I can see that meaning three things:
> 1.  The park is open when they allow onsite guests in (onsite ropedrop),
> 2.  The park is open when they allow offsite guests in (offsite ropedrop), or
> 3. The park is open at the advertised opening time (which kinda implies the thousand or so guests already in the park where in a closed park).


Just a clarification on your first sentence, the first Genie+ reservation can be made by anybody (on or off-site) at 7AM. It is only ILL$ reservations that on-site guests have the advantage of making at least their first one at 7AM (off-site must wait until park opening). Not sure which of your examples however is the correct one regarding park opening.


----------



## yellowfish78

ENJDisneyFan said:


> Official park opening of which park though?  The one you have a reservation for?  The one that opens earliest?  Or???
> 
> Also, will it only show you G+ availability for your reserved park?  Or for every park, since hopping is an option?   Just some of the questions in my head.


I'm guessing that Genie will pull from your park reservations or you will select your park each morning. If you're park hopping, then you're also selecting that park for after 2pm. Webinar did state that you would see availability across park hopping.  

Based on this, again, assumption, but official park opening for the park you have a reservation for.


----------



## scrappinginontario

ENJDisneyFan said:


> Official park opening of which park though?  The one you have a reservation for?  The one that opens earliest?  Or???
> 
> Also, will it only show you G+ availability for your reserved park?  Or for every park, since hopping is an option?   Just some of the questions in my head.


As @Violetspider correctly pointed out, it's only ILL$ that off-site guests need to wait for.  G+ reservations can be made by all at 7AM.  

https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/en_CA/genie/?CMP=ILC-DPFY22Q1Wo1007211013210002C
In looking further into the purchase of ILL$ for off-site guests, I read this as being at park opening time of the park they are trying to purchase a ILL$ for.  This is from the Disney website:

*Option #2: By Making an Individual Lightning Lane Entrance Purchase*
_Lightning Lane entry as an "á la carte" purchase will be offered at a few of our most popular attractions. This option can be purchased by all Guests—with or without the purchase of Disney Genie+ service—and lets you choose a time to arrive at the Lightning Lane entry at up to 2 attractions each day (purchased one at a time). Current example attractions include Seven Dwarfs Mine Train at Magic Kingdom park and Remy’s Ratatouille Adventure at EPCOT.* Guests of a Disney Resort hotel and other select hotels* can make their first purchase starting at 7:00 AM on the day of their visit. All other Guests can make their first purchase at the regular time the park opens.* Pricing and availability will vary by date, attraction and park. Be sure to check the My Disney Experience app on the day of your visit for current prices and attraction availability._

To me, 'THE park opens' would refer to the park the ILL$ is located in but again, this is only my interpretation and may not be right. 

Sure hope this gets less confusing with time!!


----------



## Figment1990

nurseberta said:


> I don't want to miss a thing so I've been keeping up on this thread!! It's been work! Soon this will need to be titled "are you freaking out about Genie?" come on over here!!!!



so true. 
I think 75% of our struggle here is the lack of official information and details. If Disney had put out a thorough guide,or if people had first hand experiences to report, most of this would have been “how do we” or “help me with my plan.”  So much of the issue right now is about the uncertainty and not understanding how it works, as well as confusion because they chose poorly on how to differentiate between the three. Sure we all still need real time data so The uncertainty will be there for a while but just having some of the other parameter information would help us start to plan rather than speculate. (not saying we would be all “I love Genie+!” but at least it would help with part of the current anxiety of having trips occurring soon and not knowing what is going on.


----------



## Disturbia

scrappinginontario said:


> As @Violetspider correctly pointed out, it's only ILL$ that off-site guests need to wait for.  G+ reservations can be made by all at 7AM.
> 
> https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/en_CA/genie/?CMP=ILC-DPFY22Q1Wo1007211013210002C
> In looking further into the purchase of ILL$ for off-site guests, I read this as being at park opening time of the park they are trying to purchase a ILL$ for.  This is from the Disney website:
> 
> *Option #2: By Making an Individual Lightning Lane Entrance Purchase*
> _Lightning Lane entry as an "á la carte" purchase will be offered at a few of our most popular attractions. This option can be purchased by all Guests—with or without the purchase of Disney Genie+ service—and lets you choose a time to arrive at the Lightning Lane entry at up to 2 attractions each day (purchased one at a time). Current example attractions include Seven Dwarfs Mine Train at Magic Kingdom park and Remy’s Ratatouille Adventure at EPCOT.* Guests of a Disney Resort hotel and other select hotels* can make their first purchase starting at 7:00 AM on the day of their visit. All other Guests can make their first purchase at the regular time the park opens.* Pricing and availability will vary by date, attraction and park. Be sure to check the My Disney Experience app on the day of your visit for current prices and attraction availability._
> 
> To me, 'THE park opens' would refer to the park the ILL$ is located in but again, this is only my interpretation and may not be right.
> 
> Sure hope this gets less confusing with time!!


I read this to mean Genie+ for non resort (and select hotels) can only be booked after park opening

Edit:  looks like everyone who purchases Genie+ can book at 7 (official page)

https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/genie/
https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/genie/lightning-lane/


----------



## Disturbia

Violetspider said:


> Just a clarification on your first sentence, the first Genie+ reservation can be made by anybody (on or off-site) at 7AM. It is only ILL$ reservations that on-site guests have the advantage of making at least their first one at 7AM (off-site must wait until park opening). Not sure which of your examples however is the correct one regarding park opening.


Do you know if we are limited to 8 selections with Genie+?  That wouldn't deter us necessarily from buying it, but would make a difference if we need to book our selection (or select our 8 top picks similar to the free version) in the am vs wait and see in parks.


----------



## Disturbia

This is the best Q&A I've seen but they say its unknown

https://www.disneylists.com/2021/08...new-service-coming-to-disney-world-this-fall/
Edit:  over 15 and less than 22 was Disneyland Genie+ vs Maxpass


----------



## DisneyKidds

snikki said:


> I’ve thought about skipping G+ most days and doing ILL in the evening each day instead.


I guess I hadn’t really considered that.  I figured I’d do G+ on select days and avoid the ILL$.  However, if G+ reports after the 19th aren’t great, skipping $15 a day for limited value and spending $20 a day for a couple guaranteed rides later in the day might just be viable.


----------



## nurseberta

Figment1990 said:


> so true.
> I think 75% of our struggle here is the lack of official information and details. If Disney had put out a thorough guide,or if people had first hand experiences to report, most of this would have been “how do we” or “help me with my plan.”  So much of the issue right now is about the uncertainty and not understanding how it works, as well as confusion because they chose poorly on how to differentiate between the three. Sure we all still need real time data so The uncertainty will be there for a while but just having some of the other parameter information would help us start to plan rather than speculate. (not saying we would be all “I love Genie+!” but at least it would help with part of the current anxiety of having trips occurring soon and not knowing what is going on.




Can you imagine being a fly on the wall at one of the hundreds of meetings. "the hardcore guests are going to freak out!" "Yeah, let's just trickle the information out there to wean them into it!"


----------



## Violetspider

Disturbia said:


> Do you know if we are limited to 8 selections with Genie+?  That wouldn't deter us necessarily from buying it, but would make a difference if we need to book our selection (or select our 8 top picks similar to the free version) in the am vs wait and see in parks.


There is nothing from Disney or any of the media preview accounts that I've seen that says you are limited to 8. I would say you will be lucky to get a total of 8 or more, just by the nature of the limitations of the system and the capacity of the parks on any given day. If you only want to ride high end tier 2 rides with G+, than you maybe waiting a lot in-between your reservations...hence less rides.


----------



## snikki

DisneyKidds said:


> I guess I hadn’t really considered that.  I figured I’d do G+ on select days and avoid the ILL$.  However, if G+ reports after the 19th aren’t great, skipping $15 a day for limited value and spending $20 a day for a couple guaranteed rides later in the day might just be viable.



I may pick up G+ depending on our park days and plans. If it’s a RD at AK and Epcot WS in the evening type of day I won’t buy it. I’m waiting to hear reports before I decide. We go late next year so plenty of time to hear the strategies. I know we will definitely buy ILL for certain rides (ROTR, Remy, GotG if it’s open).


----------



## dawnball

Disturbia said:


> The thing is we can’t go back to FP+, so we have to stop comparing because that’s no longer an option.  Now the choice is 40 mins for Star tours and 60 mins for small world or $15…in 95 degree Florida heat btw


Well, no. The choice is Disney World or Universal. Or sea world, Legoland, Dollywood, etc.


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

scrappinginontario said:


> As @Violetspider correctly pointed out, it's only ILL$ that off-site guests need to wait for.  G+ reservations can be made by all at 7AM.
> 
> https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/en_CA/genie/?CMP=ILC-DPFY22Q1Wo1007211013210002C
> In looking further into the purchase of ILL$ for off-site guests, I read this as being at park opening time of the park they are trying to purchase a ILL$ for.  This is from the Disney website:
> 
> *Option #2: By Making an Individual Lightning Lane Entrance Purchase*
> _Lightning Lane entry as an "á la carte" purchase will be offered at a few of our most popular attractions. This option can be purchased by all Guests—with or without the purchase of Disney Genie+ service—and lets you choose a time to arrive at the Lightning Lane entry at up to 2 attractions each day (purchased one at a time). Current example attractions include Seven Dwarfs Mine Train at Magic Kingdom park and Remy’s Ratatouille Adventure at EPCOT.* Guests of a Disney Resort hotel and other select hotels* can make their first purchase starting at 7:00 AM on the day of their visit. All other Guests can make their first purchase at the regular time the park opens.* Pricing and availability will vary by date, attraction and park. Be sure to check the My Disney Experience app on the day of your visit for current prices and attraction availability._
> 
> To me, 'THE park opens' would refer to the park the ILL$ is located in but again, this is only my interpretation and may not be right.
> 
> Sure hope this gets less confusing with time!!


I don’t really get what the advantage of being able to buy an ILL$ at 7 am is.  I get for Genie+ why it’s an advantage if there’s some form of stacking.  But ILL$?  Does Disney really think all the desirable ILL$ slots are going to sell out before park open?  I think they’re misjudging the demand on that a bit….  Maybe ROTR on crowded days.  But Space Mountain?  EE?  MMRR?  Even Remy’s?  Lol, no.


----------



## MainMom

AnnaKristoff2013 said:


> I don’t really get what the advantage of being able to buy an ILL$ at 7 am is.  I get for Genie+ why it’s an advantage if there’s some form of stacking.  But ILL$?  Does Disney really think all the desirable ILL$ slots are going to sell out before park open?  I think they’re misjudging the demand on that a bit….


I would do it so I would have the best shot at getting the time I want since I can choose my time with ILL$. I’m a the type who likes to have things laid out though. If you’re more flexible and any time works for you then you probably won’t need to be up that early. But we will know more in a few days.


----------



## Disturbia

dawnball said:


> Well, no. The choice is Disney World or Universal. Or sea world, Legoland, Dollywood, etc.


Disney is not going to give up this revenue stream whether or not I like it.  Look at Disneyland Paris they had rides grouped and those were so expensive and now switched to a a la carte.  If I don’t go, there are 10 people waiting to fill my shoes.  

I think they are intentionally trying to reduce Capacity and provide less for more in some instances just to maximize revenue and see how much we are willing to pay (hence my complaint about no egg rolls, s’mores etc at the dessert party; there may be supply issues and staffing causing some of the housekeeping and CM attitudes, but I’ve seen an improvement Nov 20 vs June 21)


----------



## Disturbia

AnnaKristoff2013 said:


> I don’t really get what the advantage of being able to buy an ILL$ at 7 am is.  I get for Genie+ why it’s an advantage if there’s some form of stacking.  But ILL$?  Does Disney really think all the desirable ILL$ slots are going to sell out before park open?  I think they’re misjudging the demand on that a bit….  Maybe ROTR on crowded days.  But Space Mountain?  EE?  MMRR?  Even Remy’s?  Lol, no.


These are limited and Disney has said there may be no availability, but you will know and select time before booking.

Also if you choose a time close to park close and ride goes down you have less chance of a makeup pass/possible refund, although it is officially non refundable (thinking back to Halloween parties, which Sometimes do get refunded for weather).


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

MainMom said:


> I would do it so I would have the best shot at getting the time I want since I can choose my time with ILL$. I’m a the type who likes to have things laid out though. If you’re more flexible and any time works for you then you probably won’t need to be up that early. But we will know more in a few days.


What I was getting at is that, that, being the sole remaining perk for staying onsite, seems like a really really minor benefit.  I see that it is of some utility, but only very slight.


----------



## scrappinginontario

AnnaKristoff2013 said:


> I don’t really get what the advantage of being able to buy an ILL$ at 7 am is.  I get for Genie+ why it’s an advantage if there’s some form of stacking.  But ILL$?  Does Disney really think all the desirable ILL$ slots are going to sell out before park open?  I think they’re misjudging the demand on that a bit….  Maybe ROTR on crowded days.  But Space Mountain?  EE?  MMRR?  Even Remy’s?  Lol, no.


I would prefer to book early as I like to plan and also, for a ride such as RotR where I'm paying top dollar, I'd prefer to choose an earlier time to give us the best possible chance of a recovery time if the ride goes down.



AnnaKristoff2013 said:


> What I was getting at is that, that, being the sole remaining perk for staying onsite, seems like a really really minor benefit.  I see that it is of some utility, but only very slight.


Each person is different but I also see Early Theme Park Entry as a benefit to staying onsite right now.


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

scrappinginontario said:


> I would prefer to book early as I like to plan and also, for a ride such as RotR where I'm paying top dollar, I'd prefer to choose an earlier time to give us the best possible chance of a recovery time if the ride goes down.


Yeah, for ROTR I get it.  For the other rides though, if you're not going to HS that day... It just doesn't seem like it's going to be that hard to get these, or get them at approximately the time you want.... But I guess we'll find out in 4 days.


----------



## JakeAZ

The on-site "benefit" of being able to buy IA$ at 7am vs park opening is a illusory benefit.  These are not going to sell out between 7 and 9am, if at all, on most days.

The on-site benefit should be IA$ attractions included with their G+ purchase.


----------



## Disturbia

JakeAZ said:


> The on-site "benefit" of being able to buy IA$ at 7am vs park opening is a illusory benefit.  These are not going to sell out between 7 and 9am, if at all, on most days.
> 
> The on-site benefit should be IA$ attractions included with their G+ purchase.


but You’ve never met a friend like me…

$15 for 3 wishes, hold on fine print… except For these 2, unless others already took them, wait can’t guarantee 3 wishes, oh thanks your payment only took 25 mins to go through and you can’t eat because your credit card is flagged, no worries I also can refer you to weight watchers, you could loose a few; thanks for the $$$ oops sorry your app just froze!  - genie running away after pulling the carpet from below you.


----------



## nurseberta

AnnaKristoff2013 said:


> I don’t really get what the advantage of being able to buy an ILL$ at 7 am is.  I get for Genie+ why it’s an advantage if there’s some form of stacking.  But ILL$?  Does Disney really think all the desirable ILL$ slots are going to sell out before park open?  I think they’re misjudging the demand on that a bit….  Maybe ROTR on crowded days.  But Space Mountain?  EE?  MMRR?  Even Remy’s?  Lol, no.



OR……. Are they creating demand? Because exclusivity breed that extra need??? Its psychology, like how a toy that is reported to sell out before Christmas creates a demand even for those who never wanted it. All of a sudden now that it is exclusive, people want it


----------



## Disturbia

Park hours for AK and MK (11/6 only) changed first week of Nov


----------



## JakeAZ

AnnaKristoff2013 said:


> I don’t really get what the advantage of being able to buy an ILL$ at 7 am is.  I get for Genie+ why it’s an advantage if there’s some form of stacking.  But ILL$?  Does Disney really think all the desirable ILL$ slots are going to sell out before park open?  I think they’re misjudging the demand on that a bit….  Maybe ROTR on crowded days.  But Space Mountain?  EE?  MMRR?  Even Remy’s?  Lol, no.


There is no benefit to being able to buy it early.  Well, no benefit to you, or me.

Disney knows there isn't really anything to keep people on-site (once the revenge travel subsides) so they have to point to as many on-site "benefits" as they can.


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

JakeAZ said:


> There is no benefit to being able to buy it early.  Well, no benefit to you, or me.
> 
> Disney knows there isn't really anything to keep people on-site (once the revenge travel subsides) so they have to point to as many on-site "benefits" as they can.


But it would be so easy for them to make a benefit here that wouldn't cost them anything.  Just letting on-site book 2 LL's at 7 instead of 1 would be a benefit.  They must really think people will stay onsite for 5 times the price of a comparable offsite no matter what.  I guess we'll see if they're right.


----------



## JakeAZ

AnnaKristoff2013 said:


> But it would be so easy for them to make a benefit here that wouldn't cost them anything.  Just letting on-site book 2 LL's at 7 instead of 1 would be a benefit.  They must really think people will stay onsite for 5 times the price of a comparable offsite no matter what.  I guess we'll see if they're right.


Occupancy is very high for the next few months.  They can do whatever they want right now and we know the mouse loves money.

Once that dies down, they will make changes.

My guess....no more free dining plan.  "Free Genie+" with rack rates.

They overshot on the Xmas parties.  None of them have sold out.  Most of the trips coming up are from people (myself included) who are rebooking from 2020 and DVC members who need to use points.  Maybe they've finally hit the breaking point.  We'll see.


----------



## lostprincess_danie

The timing for purchasing and making selections for Genie+ and ILL$ has been announced (although still confusing). But has anything been said about setting up the free Genie planner? Or will that also be morning of? Would love if I could make all those ride selections and fill out any other Genie info at least a day or two before.


----------



## JakeAZ

lostprincess_danie said:


> The timing for purchasing and making selections for Genie+ and ILL$ has been announced (although still confusing). But has anything been said about setting up the free Genie planner? Or will that also be morning of? Would love if I could make all those ride selections and fill out any other Genie info at least a day or two before.


I'm sure Disney would allow you to get it going early for a small fee of like $15pp per day


----------



## Jrb1979

AnnaKristoff2013 said:


> But it would be so easy for them to make a benefit here that wouldn't cost them anything.  Just letting on-site book 2 LL's at 7 instead of 1 would be a benefit.  They must really think people will stay onsite for 5 times the price of a comparable offsite no matter what.  I guess we'll see if they're right.


Doing that would eat up a lot of availability. I personally don't see Genie+ ever being tied to resort stays. Gone are the days of perks for staying on site. There wasn't always perks to staying in site. Most did it to stay in the bubble.


----------



## JakeAZ

Jrb1979 said:


> Doing that would eat up a lot of availability. I personally don't see Genie+ ever being tied to resort stays. Gone are the days of perks for staying on site. There wasn't always perks to staying in site. Most did it to stay in the bubble.


This is true, but then as they added benefits, they jacked up the prices.  Benefits are going away and prices are still going up.  People have noticed.  Disney doesn't need to worry yet, but once this rush of 2020 rebooked trips subsides, it's going to be a problem for them.

$1000 per night for a 250sq foot room?  Come on


----------



## JakeAZ

lostprincess_danie said:


> The timing for purchasing and making selections for Genie+ and ILL$ has been announced (although still confusing). But has anything been said about setting up the free Genie planner? Or will that also be morning of? Would love if I could make all those ride selections and fill out any other Genie info at least a day or two before.


For a non sarcastic response...

While they should launch the free version before going live with the paid version, to allow people to input their preferences, I don't see them doing it.  Unfortunately.

Maybe a day in advance, at most.


----------



## dawnball

Disturbia said:


> If I don’t go, there are 10 people waiting to fill my shoes.


Oh, I wasn't saying that me not going would somehow change Disney's plan. They're experimenting with price elasticity of demand and they clearly have some headroom. But I don't feel particularly locked in to the two choices you offered.

There aren't 10 people waiting to fill my shoes, because the parks aren't at capacity, let alone that oversubscribed. If the value proposition doesn't work - I'm not harmed by it working for someone else.


----------



## denman007

If I need to pay for hassle free, I want something like Universal where I buy a ticket and can ride anything I want, any time I want, as many times as I want.

This seems like a complete mess and to much work. I think enough at work I don't want to think this much while on vacation.

I might cancel my trip due to this. I have about a month to see how it goes


----------



## Violetspider

denman007 said:


> If I need to pay for hassle free, I want something like Universal where I buy a ticket and can ride anything I want, any time I want, as many times as I want.
> 
> This seems like a complete mess and to much work. I think enough at work I don't want to think this much while on vacation.
> 
> I might cancel my trip due to this. I have about a month to see how it goes


My plans before Covid were to sell my house and move near WDW. I did sell my house finally, but definitely trying to come up with a new plan. Being a local annual pass holder won't be anything like I was imagining. The Disney dream is starting to look like a nightmare now. Going to have to see what happens over the next few years.


----------



## CarolynFH

lostprincess_danie said:


> The timing for purchasing and making selections for Genie+ and ILL$ has been announced (although still confusing). But has anything been said about setting up the free Genie planner? Or will that also be morning of? Would love if I could make all those ride selections and fill out any other Genie info at least a day or two before.


Since it will be part of MDE, I think you’ll be able to input planning data (such as which attractions you want on a given day) as soon as you have dates. Genie will get your ADRs, hotel reservations, ticket info, etc. from MDE.


----------



## denman007

Violetspider said:


> My plans before Covid were to sell my house and move near WDW. I did sell my house finally, but definitely trying to come up with a new plan. Being a local annual pass holder won't be anything like I was imagining. The Disney dream is starting to look like a nightmare now. Going to have to see what happens over the next few years.



Maybe a combo of Disney and Universal?

Maybe when covid is over the 50th is over things will settle down and they will have worked out the kinks.

If you're in Florida, at least you can enjoy the weather the next 6 months.


----------



## Leight19

JakeAZ said:


> There is no benefit to being able to buy it early.  Well, no benefit to you, or me.
> 
> Disney knows there isn't really anything to keep people on-site (once the revenge travel subsides) so they have to point to as many on-site "benefits" as they can.


I may have misread but doesnt the ILL$ allow you to pick the times? If so maybe the benefit isnt to avoid selling out but to allow you to better pick your time to fit your plans.

On the general topic of genie plus I’d also like to add for genie plus I feel like it’s such a small amount of additional revenue per person it’s serious risk of being revenue loss for Disney .

We travel as party of 4 and tend to stay in hotels that cost ~$400 a night ($100 each). We get multi day tickets which cost us $100 each. We tend to spend $50 to $100 each in dining and merchandise each day. Adding that together we are spending up to $300 a day per person. With these numbers to offset us not going or shortening stay they need 20 people to adopt genie plus.

Now granted this math isn’t perfect since the amount we pay per day isn’t all profit and some revenue will be made up by other guests but it shows how this could easily backfire if guests are turned off and stay home or even if they purchase and just use efficiency to shorten trip. I’d say Disney has data to back up this will be success so maybe it works for them but their history of predicting fan response seems off  (dlp paid fast pass price reductions as perfect example but even the surprise at negative response to dme or the mk dj shows some serious disconnect to customers).


----------



## JakeAZ

denman007 said:


> If I need to pay for hassle free, I want something like Universal where I buy a ticket and can ride anything I want, any time I want, as many times as I want.
> 
> This seems like a complete mess and to much work. I think enough at work I don't want to think this much while on vacation.


Exactly!

I hate the whole one hour ride window or you can book again after two hours or after you tap in. It’s just a constant slog on your phone trying to make things work with where you are and where you might be later.


----------



## Disturbia

Leight19 said:


> I may have misread but doesnt the ILL$ allow you to pick the times? If so maybe the benefit isnt to avoid selling out but to allow you to better pick your time to fit your plans.
> 
> On the general topic of genie plus I’d also like to add for genie plus I feel like it’s such a small amount of additional revenue per person it’s serious risk of being revenue loss for Disney .
> 
> We travel as party of 4 and tend to stay in hotels that cost ~$400 a night ($100 each). We get multi day tickets which cost us $100 each. We tend to spend $50 to $100 each in dining and merchandise each day. Adding that together we are spending up to $300 a day per person. With these numbers to offset us not going or shortening stay they need 20 people to adopt genie plus.
> 
> Now granted this math isn’t perfect since the amount we pay per day isn’t all profit and some revenue will be made up by other guests but it shows how this could easily backfire if guests are turned off and stay home or even if they purchase and just use efficiency to shorten trip. I’d say Disney has data to back up this will be success so maybe it works for them but their history of predicting fan response seems off  (dlp paid fast pass price reductions as perfect example but even the surprise at negative response to dme or the mk dj shows some serious disconnect to customers).


They’re cutting benefits for locals (and off site guests), so I don’t think they’re the target market for genie+ (Implied by your substitution of genie+ sales to offset staying onsite).  I think they want people who travel and stay at their resorts for a week and spend $$$ for dining and merchandise.


----------



## tony67

JakeAZ said:


> My guess....no more free dining plan.  "Free Genie+" with rack rates.


Yeah - I've been saying the same thing - they can give this for free and there is really no cost to them.  may still see free DDP as well - but that will depend on Occupancy rates next fall Id guess - for now they don't need free DDP


----------



## tony67

Disturbia said:


> They’re cutting benefits for locals (and off site guests), so I don’t think they’re the target market for genie+ (Implied by your substitution of genie+ sales to offset staying onsite).  I think they want people who travel and stay at their resorts for a week and spend $$$ for dining and merchandise.


Well - could be worse - you could be a Disney Land AP holder who really cant get into the park much over the next three months - even with the highest plan there are no weekend reservations  till January I believe - but you can buy daily tickets for any of those days and get in

Seems really bad to do over folks that just spent $1400 on an AP - but hey Minnie needs new Shoes


----------



## Jrb1979

tony67 said:


> Yeah - I've been saying the same thing - they can give this for free and there is really no cost to them.  may still see free DDP as well - but that will depend on Occupancy rates next fall Id guess - for now they don't need free DDP


I don't see them giving it away for free. Then you are back to the problem with FP+. Too many people having it. I doubt you see discounts or free offers for awhile. This the Chapek Disney now.


----------



## tony67

Jrb1979 said:


> I don't see them giving it away for free. Then you are back to the problem with FP+. Too many people having it. I doubt you see discounts or free offers for awhile. This the Chapek Disney now.


Good point  - could be free for Club level or Deluxe though - of course they may assume those folks would pay for it anyway.

Will be interesting to see how it all plays out - as I have said - as a solo traveler who does not care about most of the pay per ride rides - I don't mind paying $15 if it saves me a few hours over the day - but if my family was with me and it was $45 to $60 a day that's different story


----------



## Jrb1979

tony67 said:


> Good point  - could be free for Club level or Deluxe though - of course they may assume those folks would pay for it anyway.
> 
> Will be interesting to see how it all plays out - as I have said - as a solo traveler who does not care about most of the pay per ride rides - I don't mind paying $15 if it saves me a few hours over the day - but if my family was with me and it was $45 to $60 a day that's different story


I have no issue paying $45 for my family. I'm used to paying $100 to $150 per person at other parks.


----------



## tony67

Jrb1979 said:


> I have no issue paying $45 for my family. I'm used to paying $100 to $150 per person at other parks.


True - but these are two very different things (assuming your talking about Universal)  - express pass is once per ride and you just get in line - unlimited express pass you can do the same ride over and over if you want - no planning at all. 

You can also get it for free with your room - and depending on the time - its 200-250 a night for the room that gets everyone in it express pass.


BTW - its not about the $45 - its the Cheapek of it


----------



## Bcarrier1983

Not sure I saw this comfirmed in the thread yet, but I read this on Kennythe

"It is also worth noting that if your first Genie+ selection is within the first 120 minutes of park opening, you cannot book your next selection until after you have redeemed the first one. If you choose not to redeem your first selection, you will have to wait until it expires to book another."

The 1st part is related to the 120 minute clock not starting until park opening, but the second part also implies that you can't cancel a G+ selection you're not going to use. With maxpass you could drop a reservation in real time if a better return window appeared. Have you all seen/heard this confirmed anywhere?


----------



## masupo

Bcarrier1983 said:


> Not sure I saw this comfirmed in the thread yet, but I read this on Kennythe
> 
> "It is also worth noting that if your first Genie+ selection is within the first 120 minutes of park opening, you cannot book your next selection until after you have redeemed the first one. If you choose not to redeem your first selection, you will have to wait until it expires to book another."
> 
> The 1st part is related to the 120 minute clock not starting until park opening, but the second part also implies that you can't cancel a G+ selection you're not going to use. With maxpass you could drop a reservation in real time if a better return window appeared. Have you all seen/heard this confirmed anywhere?



Molly talked about canceling/rescheduling in her AllEars video. I don't remember exactly what she said. I had planned to rewatch it anyway later on today.

I feel like I'm studying for finals.   And all the genie-pigs who go before me are doing the practicum and I'll learn from their experience!


----------



## DL1WDW2

That’s a good way to describe it… study think you know the answers and then totally forget everything you just studied…except it’s worse than Algebra …


----------



## thptrek

Hoping this morning the app would be updated but no.


----------



## wisblue

Bcarrier1983 said:


> Not sure I saw this comfirmed in the thread yet, but I read this on Kennythe
> 
> "It is also worth noting that if your first Genie+ selection is within the first 120 minutes of park opening, you cannot book your next selection until after you have redeemed the first one. If you choose not to redeem your first selection, you will have to wait until it expires to book another."
> 
> The 1st part is related to the 120 minute clock not starting until park opening, but the second part also implies that you can't cancel a G+ selection you're not going to use. With maxpass you could drop a reservation in real time if a better return window appeared. Have you all seen/heard this confirmed anywhere?



This is why my preliminary thought on how to use this would be to log in at 7 AM and make a LL reservation for an early time.

For example, at MK (where I wouldn’t intend to get any IAS) I could make a LL reservation for, say, Splash Mountain for 9-10. Then we could get to the park for Early Entry and do 7DMT or Space Mountain (possibly both) and then swing over to do BTMRR and Splash. After Spalsh I could get a second LL (like for Jungle Cruise) and try to do Pirates and HM standby before that comes up. 

With good timing and maybe a little luck we might be able to get our 7 favorite attractions at MK done before lunch and be in position to use our Genie+ for second tier attractions and then one at our second park of the day.

This is where I’m interested to find out if you can make a LL reservation at the second park before you actually tap into the park. For example, if we’re leaving MK at 2 PM could we try to get a LL reservation for Soarin at 5 PM?


----------



## Violetspider

Bcarrier1983 said:


> Not sure I saw this comfirmed in the thread yet, but I read this on Kennythe
> 
> "It is also worth noting that if your first Genie+ selection is within the first 120 minutes of park opening, you cannot book your next selection until after you have redeemed the first one. If you choose not to redeem your first selection, you will have to wait until it expires to book another."
> 
> The 1st part is related to the 120 minute clock not starting until park opening, but the second part also implies that you can't cancel a G+ selection you're not going to use. With maxpass you could drop a reservation in real time if a better return window appeared. Have you all seen/heard this confirmed anywhere?


UGH! The second part would seem to eliminate the "refresh for cancelations" scenario some of us loved with MP and FP+. Now we would have to rely on Disney dropping more slots into the app throughout the day, which I'm not sure will happen...ever.


----------



## Grumpy by Birth

DL1WDW2 said:


> That’s a good way to describe it… study think you know the answers and then totally forget everything you just studied…except it’s worse than Algebra …


And you show up to the wrong classroom with no clothes on.


----------



## wisblue

Violetspider said:


> UGH! The second part would seem to eliminate the "refresh for cancelations" scenario some of us loved with MP and FP+. Now we would have to rely on Disney dropping more slots into the app throughout the day, which I'm not sure will happen...ever.



I wouldn’t necessarily read it that way. Choosing not to redeem to me means not showing up. Actively cancelling is something different.

I guess this is something we will find out when this rolls out.


----------



## disneyworldsk

i'm hopping onto this thread so i hope i'm not repeating a question and apologize if it's been covered. How do you all think a strategy of park hopping can be used best for genie plus (not ias)? so if i'm doing epcot then mk for example. Also, for ias, i don't have to buy two attractions in one park on one given day if i'm park hopping, correct? so i can buy Rise and Remy in one day?


----------



## Violetspider

wisblue said:


> I wouldn’t necessarily read it that way. Choosing not to redeem to me means not showing up. Actively cancelling is something different.
> 
> I guess this is something we will find out when this rolls out.


Hope your read on that is correct. It would be insane if the app didn't allow someone to cancel a reservation, but that is what the OP is implying I think. The interpretation might be inaccurate though...at least I hope it is.


----------



## Bcarrier1983

Violetspider said:


> Hope your read on that is correct. It would be insane if the app didn't allow someone to cancel a reservation, but that is what the OP is implying I think. The interpretation might be inaccurate though...at least I hope it is.



Yes, I am hoping it's inaccurate and that cancelation and immediate rebooking a different reservation is allowed, but the wording scared me so I was asking if anyone else had heard anything lol.


----------



## elgerber

wisblue said:


> I wouldn’t necessarily read it that way. Choosing not to redeem to me means not showing up. Actively cancelling is something different.
> 
> I guess this is something we will find out when this rolls out.


I would agree that it reads this way.


----------



## rmclain73

Bcarrier1983 said:


> Yes, I am hoping it's inaccurate and that cancelation and immediate rebooking a different reservation is allowed, but the wording scared me so I was asking if anyone else had heard anything lol.



like everything else on the MDE app I am sure Disney will let you cancel.  The question though still remains will you be able to refresh.  I can see them allowing you to do so if you only have 1 ride that is further out.  What I doubt they will allow is if you have 1 attraction more than 2 hours out and you have selected another attraction that is sooner.  I don’t think you can then refresh the attraction that was further out to a closer time.


----------



## cm8

Did Disney release the fine print yet for who all can buy LL rides before park opening? I see it’s selected Hotels but my question is about those of us with friends staying offsite and our plans are the same. Will we be allowed to book LL rides for them at the same time we utilize it? Or will they have to wait until park opening? TIA!


----------



## scrappinginontario

cm8 said:


> Did Disney release the fine print yet for who all can buy LL rides before park opening? I see it’s selected Hotels but my question is about those of us with friends staying offsite and our plans are the same. Will we be allowed to book LL rides for them at the same time we utilize it? Or will they have to wait until park opening? TIA!


Purely a guess as this info has not been published but I believe all offsite guests need to wait for park opening to book ILL$ rides.  

Others may feel differently.  Hopefully we’ll start to get answers to some of these questions in just 3 days.


----------



## cm8

scrappinginontario said:


> Purely a guess as this info has not been published but I believe all offsite guests need to wait for park opening to book ILL$ rides.
> 
> Others may feel differently.  Hopefully we’ll start to get answers to some of these questions in just 3 days.


We are set to arrive  on Thursday and I’m frantically trying to tie up loose ends We’re staying onsite but my friend and her children will be off property so we will be trying our hardest to navigate the new Greed + and LL


----------



## roctavia

Delirium said:


> Oh.  I agree it's highly unlikely they go back.  I just hope Genie flops enough so that they significantly miss their revenue targets.  That way, maybe they will learn that even a Disney consumer has a breaking point on the amount of up-charges you add and benefits you take away.
> 
> As of right now, I have absolutely zero desire to return.  The Disney vacation that I used to love no longer exists.  There is no more magic for me.  And, once Disney stops being magical, it becomes like everything else.  Vacationers must ask themselves, whether or not the product justifies the cost?   In my opinion, it does not.  Disney went into all of these changes too hard and too fast.  Not just Genie+, but all of the perks that have been taken away.  It's truly sad.
> 
> Even this forum seems to have a lot less traffic than it used to.  To me, that's a sign that I am not alone in the way I feel.



I don't know if it will "flop" but I wonder if they find it gets much more underutilized at certain parks, especially with only being able to ride once that will lead to some changes. At the moment, I would definitely not plan to get G+ for AK, there just aren't enough rides to make it worth it, especially once they took out two rides for the extra up charge. If you could re-ride, maybe it'd be worth it, but even then with regular FP+ there wasn't a lot to get more rides on. We are not park hoppers and usually find enough to do at AK, so that's a day that we won't ever pay for Genie +, maybe the extra charge for FOP if we don't make it for rope drop, but even then.... we might be willing to just stand in line.  I could see this for Epcot too, especially before the GOG ride opens. Remy sounds fun, but isn't Genie + and 1 ride each on soarin and test track aren't worth the money for our family.... so will they make changes like not limiting it to one ride... (or maybe even after x time you can get second rides? Like starting at 3pm or something?)  Or I could see them offering it to onsite guests... similar to FP, not everyone will know enough to utilize it, so I don't know if it will still cause the same FP problem, especially at lower occupancy times.

To your point of taking away perks, we are definitely feeling that... Ending MDE right now, with a rental car shortage too... it will suck to get to the resort from the airport. We are traveling in May but I'm thinking it will be a last trip for a long while.... We were headed to DL May 2020 when the pandemic first started, since we wanted to see GE and had a conference out there, and honestly, if we had made it for that trip, we'd be cancelling WDW. My oldest turns 9 this year, so the plan is one last WDW trip before she's "adult" price.... and if things keep going this way, we won't go back for a long, long time.... instead of trying to plan a trip every 2-3 years.   Maybe once my kids have kids(so in 15-20 years?), we can do the family trip again... but we're going to look at other destinations for next time if things continue down this path.

Hopefully Genie+ will still make for a fun trip this time around, but it's hard to see the value when things are getting more expensive for less.


----------



## shawthorne44

cm8 said:


> Did Disney release the fine print yet for who all can buy LL rides before park opening? I see it’s selected Hotels but my question is about those of us with friends staying offsite and our plans are the same. Will we be allowed to book LL rides for them at the same time we utilize it? Or will they have to wait until park opening? TIA!



They never released the fine print for FPP.  People just had to figure it out and report to others.  
Same with this.

ETA: On the general subject. I wonder if the parks will be mostly standby for most rides most days, and Disney is OK with that. Think about it. If you wanted to design a FP-replacement system that didn't hose up the standby line, this would be it. By taking away the top two rides in each park, one-ride rule and no AP add-on, you limit who how many people will buy/have G+. Then the no-re-ride rule limits the impact on standby even if a bunch of people buy it. With the IA$$$, people aren't going to buy that more than once per ride per trip. I expect everything buy ROTR, Remy and FOP will be basically standby only. Of course, the argument against Disney wanting IA$$$ being unused is how they lowered the price of it at DLP.


----------



## pascalspal

disneyworldsk said:


> i'm hopping onto this thread so i hope i'm not repeating a question and apologize if it's been covered. How do you all think a strategy of park hopping can be used best for genie plus (not ias)? so if i'm doing epcot then mk for example. Also, for ias, i don't have to buy two attractions in one park on one given day if i'm park hopping, correct? so i can buy Rise and Remy in one day?



I want to confirm the same thing. We have morning plans for AK, but will be hopping to Epcot after 2:00. Hoping I can buy that individual attraction pass the morning of for a time after 2:00 pm. Hoping we can get clarification on that!


----------



## cm8

shawthorne44 said:


> They never released the fine print for FPP.  People just had to figure it out and report to others.
> Same with this.
> 
> ETA: On the general subject. I wonder if the parks will be mostly standby for most rides most days, and Disney is OK with that. Think about it. If you wanted to design a FP-replacement system that didn't hose up the standby line, this would be it. By taking away the top two rides in each park, one-ride rule and no AP add-on, you limit who how many people will buy/have G+. Then the no-re-ride rule limits the impact on standby even if a bunch of people buy it. With the IA$$$, people aren't going to buy that more than once per ride per trip. I expect everything buy ROTR, Remy and FOP will be basically standby only. Of course, the argument against Disney wanting IA$$$ being unused is how they lowered the price of it at DLP.


?? Crazy question…. Do you have to purchase G+ to take advantage of LL?


----------



## shawthorne44

cm8 said:


> ?? Crazy question…. Do you have to purchase G+ to take advantage of LL?


It is quite annoying how they named things.  The Lightening Lane is the old Fast Pass queue, just renamed.   To get access to the LL on the top two rides in each park, you have to pay per person per ride.   This is called something like Individual Lightening Lane Selection.    So, abbreviated ILLS, then you swap out the S for an $ to get ILL$$$.    You do not need to purchase G+for this, and you select your times.   With G+ you pay $15 for the day and you select from the next available times on the G+ rides.


----------



## scrappinginontario

cm8 said:


> ?? Crazy question…. Do you have to purchase G+ to take advantage of LL?


No.


----------



## cm8

scrappinginontario said:


> No.


Thank you so much!


----------



## cm8

shawthorne44 said:


> It is quite annoying how they named things.  The Lightening Lane is the old Fast Pass queue, just renamed.   To get access to the LL on the top two rides in each park, you have to pay per person per ride.   This is called something like Individual Lightening Lane Selection.    So, abbreviated ILLS, then you swap out the S for an $ to get ILL$$$.    You do not need to purchase G+for this, and you select your times.   With G+ you pay $15 for the day and you select from the next available times on the G+ rides.


Thank you for the explanation!


----------



## Disturbia

DL1WDW2 said:


> That’s a good way to describe it… study think you know the answers and then totally forget everything you just studied…except it’s worse than Algebra …


That’s why we need a Genie- to keep things in balance (surprise you can ride whatever you want for the next hour…and we will pay you $15)


----------



## Disturbia

Grumpy by Birth said:


> And you show up to the wrong classroom with no clothes on.


Or you fell asleep and woke up and the exam was over.. then you realized you were in the wrong class


----------



## Disturbia

We need more details on how Genie+ works. I still fear the first screen will be top 8 picks and then Genie+ will send some of us to Adventureland and others to Tomorrowland and then me towards Mad Tea Cups and Winnie the Pooh (I always get the short stick) and then towards wherever we have dining reservations.  It certainly doesn’t let us tier our picks as far as we know.  Maybe holding and ADR becomes a negative vs getting Genie+ to get us onto a walk up list.  into the unknown…


----------



## Jrb1979

Disturbia said:


> We need more details on how Genie+ works. I still fear the first screen will be top 8 picks and then Genie+ will send some of us to Adventureland and others to Tomorrowland and then me towards Mad Tea Cups and Winnie the Pooh (I always get the short stick) and then towards wherever we have dining reservations.  It certainly doesn’t let us tier our picks as far as we know.  Maybe holding and ADR becomes a negative vs getting Genie+ to get us onto a walk up list.  into the unknown…


What you are describing is Genie that everyone gets for free.  All  Genie+ is, is FP on your phone. i think people are making it more confusing then it is. If you ever booked FP+ on your phone when at the park that's how Genie+ works. The only difference is you don't get to pick the return time, Disney does that for you.


----------



## Disturbia

This article has better screenshots

https://www.google.com/amp/s/orland...disney-genie-disney-world-planning-guide/amp/


----------



## dawnball

shawthorne44 said:


> ETA: On the general subject. I wonder if the parks will be mostly standby for most rides most days, and Disney is OK with that. Think about it. If you wanted to design a FP-replacement system that didn't hose up the standby line, this would be it. By taking away the top two rides in each park, one-ride rule and no AP add-on, you limit who how many people will buy/have G+. Then the no-re-ride rule limits the impact on standby even if a bunch of people buy it. With the IA$$$, people aren't going to buy that more than once per ride per trip. I expect everything buy ROTR, Remy and FOP will be basically standby only. Of course, the argument against Disney wanting IA$$$ being unused is how they lowered the price of it at DLP.


I think that they want LL and IA$$$ to be very short waits and for LL return times to be soon.   I'm reading a lot of focus on stacking and how quickly you can get your LL passes/IA$$$$$ every day. I think that Disney wants to sell it as a mid-day impulse buy that becomes a default purchase on return trips. 

It's noon, the lines are all long, it's hot and crowded. Genie says "You can wait in line for an hour for Test Track, or you can ride in 5 minutes with LL." That really only works if the LL have relatively few people in them. That's the kind of thing people will just pay for, and IMO, that's where the value is.


----------



## katyringo

2 days to Genie Debut!!!!!!!!!


----------



## elkkthunder

Does anyone know when you can add Genie+ to an upcoming trip? Is it the 19th?


----------



## scrappinginontario

elkkthunder said:


> Does anyone know when you can add Genie+ to an upcoming trip? Is it the 19th?


Unfortunately we don't know.  People are checking many times daily but so far it's not an option to add.


----------



## thptrek

I expect to wake up in BLT on the 19th and there it is and the chaos begins, lol.


----------



## mickey916

Best of luck!


----------



## canyoncam

elkkthunder said:


> Does anyone know when you can add Genie+ to an upcoming trip? Is it the 19th?



According to the TA webcast it is not available to add until the 19th


----------



## Leight19

dawnball said:


> I think that they want LL and IA$$$ to be very short waits and for LL return times to be soon.   I'm reading a lot of focus on stacking and how quickly you can get your LL passes/IA$$$$$ every day. I think that Disney wants to sell it as a mid-day impulse buy that becomes a default purchase on return trips.
> 
> It's noon, the lines are all long, it's hot and crowded. Genie says "You can wait in line for an hour for Test Track, or you can ride in 5 minutes with LL." That really only works if the LL have relatively few people in them. That's the kind of thing people will just pay for, and IMO, that's where the value is.


I think I generally agree but would say I think they want window between rides to be further in the future. They want to keep us in parks so if you can bang out all rides back to back and go home they lose revenue. I expect it to continually remind us the 1hr wait can be skipped for $15 but once you buy next one is in 1.5 hrs. But now that you have all this free time hey look at this place to eat or check out this merch.


----------



## dawnball

Leight19 said:


> I think I generally agree but would say I think they want window between rides to be further in the future. They want to keep us in parks so if you can bang out all rides back to back and go home they lose revenue. I expect it to continually remind us the 1hr wait can be skipped for $15 but once you buy next one is in 1.5 hrs. But now that you have all this free time hey look at this place to eat or check out this merch.


5 minutes might be too short, but some of those LL queues are long walks, plus you have the wait after merge. I'd anticipate another 5-10 minutes between entering LL and getting on the ride. 

I wonder how long it would take to visit everything in DHS with LL, assuming a 5-10 minute wait for your LL return time, no wait before merge, but that the queue is full past merge, which Disney considers a 10 minute wait.

Some time on touring plans plus the Disney website says  - 12 attractions, so that's 2 hours of waiting in the LL/lining up before the show. Plus 1-2 hours waiting for return times. An hour of walking time (from touring plans, assuming average walking speed) . About an hour of rides and 3 hours of shows.

That's 8-9 hours. You'll want lunch in there, and some stops for drinks/snacks, maybe dinner or some character greetings. That's a pretty full day to get your money's worth by using all the return times. 

I really do think Disney is trying to create an experience worth purchasing. I don't think my touring style will be a good fit for Genie+, but it might make a lot of casual visitors less frustrated than they were by FP+.


----------



## Leight19

dawnball said:


> 5 minutes might be too short, but some of those LL queues are long walks, plus you have the wait after merge. I'd anticipate another 5-10 minutes between entering LL and getting on the ride.
> 
> I wonder how long it would take to visit everything in DHS with LL, assuming a 5-10 minute wait for your LL return time, no wait before merge, but that the queue is full past merge, which Disney considers a 10 minute wait.
> 
> Some time on touring plans plus the Disney website says  - 12 attractions, so that's 2 hours of waiting in the LL/lining up before the show. Plus 1-2 hours waiting for return times. An hour of walking time (from touring plans, assuming average walking speed) . About an hour of rides and 3 hours of shows.
> 
> That's 8-9 hours. You'll want lunch in there, and some stops for drinks/snacks, maybe dinner or some character greetings. That's a pretty full day to get your money's worth by using all the return times.
> 
> I really do think Disney is trying to create an experience worth purchasing. I don't think my touring style will be a good fit for Genie+, but it might make a lot of casual visitors less frustrated than they were by FP+.


I think your math is more detailed then anything I’ve done. My cynicism just says if they won’t even pay for tram to come back then they didn’t spend this money developing genie to give guests better experience it’s because they feel they can even monetize the free version in some way. The limit of one LL per ride with genie+ makes me think they can’t have this designed where you can ride back to back or it would cut down time in park too much. I think the lines once you get LL will go fast but they want you out of ride lines and in stores shopping between LL is my thought and that doesn’t happen if genie plus has “return now” rides.


----------



## Bullseye

shawthorne44 said:


> It is quite annoying how they named things.  The Lightening Lane is the old Fast Pass queue, just renamed.   To get access to the LL on the top two rides in each park, you have to pay per person per ride.   This is called something like Individual Lightening Lane Selection.    So, abbreviated ILLS, then you swap out the S for an $ to get ILL$$$.    You do not need to purchase G+for this, and you select your times.   With G+ you pay $15 for the day and you select from the next available times on the G+ rides.


When you buy G+ is there a limit to how many LL rides you can ride?


----------



## Violetspider

Bullseye said:


> When you buy G+ is there a limit to how many LL rides you can ride?


No, but you can only ride each G+ attraction once that day.


----------



## Dbktmc

Disturbia said:


> It looks like there was a Super Fastpass and Ultimate Fastpass bundling rides at Disneyland Paris.  Maybe we will soon get a Super Genie+ and Ultimate Genie+
> 
> https://attractionsmagazine.com/disneyland-paris-paid-fastpass-range/



I would happily pay for the ultimate pass for 2-3 days over my vacation despite the price.  That being said, my budget is not unlimited so I would look at staying at a nice resort off site instead of the monorail loop where we normally stay. My biggest problem would be my husband who wants to stay in the bubble.  I fear it would become an impasse for my family and we would actually vacation elsewhere.


----------



## wisblue

Maybe as the start day approaches it’s time for a new thread to discuss how Genie, Genie +, and IALL work and what actual experiences people are having with it.

There can be a separate thread for those who want to discuss why all of these things show that Disney is only interested in making more money and not in guests having a positive experience.


----------



## Disturbia

It can be called Disney Genie/Genie+/LLIA details/procedure

or

maybe we can have the first post with details (like ROTR)


----------



## CarolynFH

wisblue said:


> Maybe as the start day approaches it’s time for a new thread to discuss how Genie, Genie +, and IALL work and what actual experiences people are having with it.
> 
> There can be a separate thread for those who want to discuss why all of these things show that Disney is only interested in making more money and not in guests having a positive experience.





Disturbia said:


> It can be called Disney Genie/Genie+/LLIA details/procedure
> 
> or
> 
> maybe we can have the first post with details (like ROTR)


There’s a thread like that, started when Genie was announced. https://www.disboards.com/threads/genie-questions-and-answers-with-no-commentary.3849436/. The Mods moved it to the Community forum. Maybe they’ll move it back - or start a new one under Mod supervision.


----------



## scrappinginontario

wisblue said:


> Maybe as the start day approaches it’s time for a new thread to discuss how Genie, Genie +, and IALL work and what actual experiences people are having with it.
> 
> There can be a separate thread for those who want to discuss why all of these things show that Disney is only interested in making more money and not in guests having a positive experience.


Thank you.  Yes, we will be creating this and sticking it to the top of the first page.  It will be a work in progress just like we the Everything Early park Entry thread is.  It’s too early to start it until it’s active and we have actual information to share.


----------



## wisblue

CarolynFH said:


> There’s a thread like that, started when Genie was announced. https://www.disboards.com/threads/genie-questions-and-answers-with-no-commentary.3849436/. The Mods moved it to the Community forum. Maybe they’ll move it back - or start a new one under Mod supervision.



Ah. I generally don’t go to the Community forum but come here to get information as I plan for trips.


----------



## provencio

I am so sorry, I am very confused.. and it appears I am in good company. So is this correct? You purchase G+ to get the basic fast pass feature that was for free in the past? So I assume you will get a "fast pass" for say haunted Mansion and will be told to enter at 1PM. Then you proceed to the ride and get in the LL line? or is there 3 lines? a standby and G+ and a LL? 

Now LL is like the virtual q correct? you are given a time and can walk right on? But once again... is there 3 lines? or is stand by now now existent? 

Thank you very much in advance, we are planning a trip in May so hopefully by then I will figure it out LOL


----------



## cjlong88

provencio said:


> I am so sorry, I am very confused.. and it appears I am in good company. So is this correct? You purchase G+ to get the basic fast pass feature that was for free in the past? So I assume you will get a "fast pass" for say haunted Mansion and will be told to enter at 1PM. Then you proceed to the ride and get in the LL line? or is there 3 lines? a standby and G+ and a LL?
> 
> Now LL is like the virtual q correct? you are given a time and can walk right on? But once again... is there 3 lines? or is stand by now now existent?
> 
> Thank you very much in advance, we are planning a trip in May so hopefully by then I will figure it out LOL


There are only two lines: standby and Lightning Lane. The Lightning Lane is for both Genie+ and the Individual Lightning Lane Selections.

Genie+ you can book the next available time. If you purchase the Individual Lightning Lane Selections, I believe you can select your arrival window much like the old FP+.


----------



## 10CJ

provencio said:


> I am so sorry, I am very confused.. and it appears I am in good company. So is this correct? You purchase G+ to get the basic fast pass feature that was for free in the past? So I assume you will get a "fast pass" for say haunted Mansion and will be told to enter at 1PM. Then you proceed to the ride and get in the LL line? or is there 3 lines? a standby and G+ and a LL?
> 
> Now LL is like the virtual q correct? you are given a time and can walk right on? But once again... is there 3 lines? or is stand by now now existent?
> 
> Thank you very much in advance, we are planning a trip in May so hopefully by then I will figure it out LOL


There are two lines, the lightning lane and the standby line. G+ allows you access to the LL of most attractions. When making your selection you will a list of rides and their next available return times. You pick the one that works best for you. Two attractions at each park are not part of G+ and priced individually. If you purchase that, you go through that rides Lightning Lane. If you do not want to purchase that, you can choose to ride standby (or try for a boarding group in the case or Remy).


----------



## Kimrlav

10CJ said:


> There are two lines, the lightning lane and the standby line. G+ allows you access to the LL of most attractions. When making your selection you will a list of rides and their next available return times. You pick the one that works best for you. Two attractions at each park are not part of G+ and priced individually. If you purchase that, you go through that rides Lightning Lane. If you do not want to purchase that, you can choose to ride standby (or try for a boarding group in the case or Remy).


Nice clear explanation of the process. Thanks!


----------



## provencio

Thank you so very much that cleared it up!


----------



## mouschievous

Violetspider said:


> No, but you can only ride each G+ attraction once that day.


Can you point me to that information?  That's the first time I've heard that part.  I was assuming it would be like MaxPass was at DL, where you could get a fastpass/lightning lane for the same ride as many times as you wanted, as long as one was available and it was your time to book a new one.  I will be sad if it's a one and done each day.


----------



## DisneyKidds

mouschievous said:


> Can you point me to that information?  That's the first time I've heard that part.  I was assuming it would be like MaxPass was at DL, where you could get a fastpass/lightning lane for the same ride as many times as you wanted, as long as one was available and it was your time to book a new one.  I will be sad if it's a one and done each day.


What they meant is you can only enter the LL  with G+ once for each attraction covered by G+.  Same for ILL$, you can only buy two a day, one ride per attraction chosen.  In other words, no multiple paid rides, which is unlike old FP/MaxPass, which allowed multiple passes for rides.

You can ride the same rides via standby lines all you want.


----------



## scrappinginontario

mouschievous said:


> Can you point me to that information?  That's the first time I've heard that part.  I was assuming it would be like MaxPass was at DL, where you could get a fastpass/lightning lane for the same ride as many times as you wanted, as long as one was available and it was your time to book a new one.  I will be sad if it's a one and done each day.


As with many of the details it hasn't been publicized by Disney but a number of vloggers, popular Disney websites, etc were given a test run of the system last week along with some travel agents and the consistent message from all is that a Genie + ride can only be ridden once a day in the LL line, after that it's standby line.


----------



## Violetspider

mouschievous said:


> Can you point me to that information?  That's the first time I've heard that part.  I was assuming it would be like MaxPass was at DL, where you could get a fastpass/lightning lane for the same ride as many times as you wanted, as long as one was available and it was your time to book a new one.  I will be sad if it's a one and done each day.


That came out of all the media previews and is being reported widely. We've been discussing it on this thread for days. Not sure if Disney actually has put it in writing, but it has been confirmed by multiple sources who have been at the previews and through the Genie training. Disney indicated this to be the case "at launch" so maybe they will allow repeat rides in the future. I guess it all depends on how popular G+ is. Since there are only 9 G+ attractions at Epcot and 8 at Animal Kingdom, I don't see them selling a lot of these at those two locations. Maybe that will trigger a change on Disney's part.


----------



## mom2rtk

mouschievous said:


> Can you point me to that information?  That's the first time I've heard that part.  I was assuming it would be like MaxPass was at DL, where you could get a fastpass/lightning lane for the same ride as many times as you wanted, as long as one was available and it was your time to book a new one.  I will be sad if it's a one and done each day.


Honestly, because there are 3 parks without enough attractions, I see no way they make it unlimited like MaxPass. People would clog up the Lightning Lane for those few attractions way too quickly. Disneyland has enough attractions to handle unlimited. So does MK but I'm sure they need to make it consistent.


----------



## mouschievous

scrappinginontario said:


> As with many of the details it hasn't been publicized by Disney but a number of vloggers, popular Disney websites, etc were given a test run of the system last week along with some travel agents and the consistent message from all is that a Genie + ride can only be ridden once a day in the LL line, after that it's standby line.





Violetspider said:


> That came out of all the media previews and is being reported widely. We've been discussing it on this thread for days. Not sure if Disney actually has put it in writing, but it has been confirmed by multiple sources who have been at the previews and through the Genie training. Disney indicated this to be the case "at launch" so maybe they will allow repeat rides in the future. I guess it all depends on how popular G+ is. Since there are only 9 G+ attractions at Epcot and 8 at Animal Kingdom, I don't see them selling a lot of these at those two locations. Maybe that will trigger a change on Disney's part.


Thanks! I haven't seen that specific piece of info in the things I've read,  but I also haven't seen any of the reports after the test run.  I didn't even realize that had happened! I'll have to look for those reports.


----------



## scrappinginontario

mouschievous said:


> Thanks! I haven't seen that specific piece of info in the things I've read,  but I also haven't seen any of the reports after the test run.  I didn't even realize that had happened! I'll have to look for those reports.


Molly of All Ears has an excellent video on YouTube I would recommend watching.


----------



## masupo

I posted this earlier in the thread, but here it is again. I'm a D23 member so I received the invitation to try Genie+ for free on 10/19. Here is the wording from the fine print. It specifically mentions only being allowed one Genie+ LL pass per ride - I highlighted it in bold:

*Attractions with Lightning Lane entrances that are Disney Genie+ and individual purchases are limited in availability, subject to change or closure, may vary by date, and are not guaranteed.

To enter a theme park, both a valid admission and theme park reservation for the same park and same date are required.

Park reservations are limited, subject to availability, and are not guaranteed for any specific dates or park. Price, terms and entitlements are subject to restrictions, and change or cancellation without notice.

About Disney Genie and Disney Genie+ Service
Built right into the My Disney Experience app, Disney Genie service will help you create your best Disney day inspired by your interests and activities. It includes a personalized itinerary feature that saves you time by seamlessly and smartly mapping out your special day with updates that continue from morning to night.

With the purchase of Disney Genie+ service, you can save time waiting in line. This new service, at more than 40 attractions and experiences throughout the Walt Disney World theme parks, lets you select the next available arrival window for our new Lightning Lane entrances. You can make one selection at a time, throughout the day. *You may not select the same experience more than once per day,* and experience and arrival window selections are limited and subject to availability.

With Disney Genie+ service, you’ll also enjoy new audio tales that let you discover the Parks in cool new ways. Plus, access to exclusive Disney PhotoPass Lenses for your mobile device—allowing you to explore magical new augmented reality effects


----------



## lorileahb

I'm trying to keep up, but a little behind.  We are back at the parks on the 21st... has there been any news about how you can purchase Genie+?  I still don't see it anywhere on my disney app.


----------



## rmclain73

lorileahb said:


> I'm trying to keep up, but a little behind.  We are back at the parks on the 21st... has there been any news about how you can purchase Genie+?  I still don't see it anywhere on my disney app.



Check back here and your app on Tuesday 10/19.


----------



## lorileahb

rmclain73 said:


> Check back here and your app on Tuesday 10/19.



I would just like to say I appreciate everyone in the parks on the 19th - thank you in advance for taking one for the team!


----------



## ShelsGoingToDisney

Today was the first park day of our trip. We were at HS. I was SO frustrated with the MDE app today. So many times it was glitchy and not working. I am SO dreading what the absolute mess will be, come Tuesday. We have Epcot planned and I am thinking trying for a REMY boarding pass at 7 AM will be a waste of time and I am better just sleeping a little later!

I really, really wish this Genie stuff was starting next Saturday or later after I was on a plane home!


----------



## CJLove79

I'm not psychic or anything but I wouldn't be surprised if Disney decides to put Genie into MDE today (Monday) instead of tomorrow but it can't be used till tomorrow. I seriously doubt they will do that cause it would cause confusion. But at the same time, confusion has been a Disney mantra for years in certain aspects. LOL.


----------



## disneyworldsk

countdown....one day to genie+ and the genie will grant you your wish......


----------



## itf

CJLove79 said:


> I'm not psychic or anything but I wouldn't be surprised if Disney decides to put Genie into MDE today (Monday) instead of tomorrow but it can't be used till tomorrow. I seriously doubt they will do that cause it would cause confusion. But at the same time, confusion has been a Disney mantra for years in certain aspects. LOL.



Depends on how the app works internally. It could already be there, but just not be visible until a date. It could also be that the app is really just a window into their website, in which case the app doesn't need to be updated.


----------



## scrappinginontario

Just looked for an app update and I can’t seem to see one.  I also thought it might happen today but not be used until tomorrow.  I guess they can push it at any time.  Is anyone seeing something different?


----------



## OhDannyBoy

scrappinginontario said:


> Just looked for an app update and I can’t seem to see one.  I also thought it might happen today but not be used until tomorrow.  I guess they can push it at any time.  Is anyone seeing something different?


I just looked and see no change as of yet.


----------



## lorileahb

I hope they do push it down today for the folks having the opportunity to use it tomorrow... 7 a.m. is hard enough!


----------



## Bibbobboo2u

lorileahb said:


> I hope they do push it down today for the folks having the opportunity to use it tomorrow... 7 a.m. is hard enough!


Yes - I keep checking.  In Orlando now at Universal.  Back to WDW tomorrow at HWS.  Alarms set for 6am purchase of G+ and 7am LL.  Not doing ILL$.  Wish us luck!!!


----------



## Bibbobboo2u

lorileahb said:


> I would just like to say I appreciate everyone in the parks on the 19th - thank you in advance for taking one for the team!


 - Me tomorrow morning!!


----------



## masupo

Bibbobboo2u said:


> Yes - I keep checking.  In Orlando now at Universal.  Back to WDW tomorrow at HWS.  Alarms set for 6am purchase of G+ and 7am LL.  Not doing ILL$.  Wish us luck!!!



May the Force be with you!


----------



## katyringo

In theory it should be up by midnight right? Because that's when they said you would be able to buy genie +


----------



## Bibbobboo2u

katyringo said:


> In theory it should be up by midnight right? Because that's when they said you would be able to buy genie +


I would think so.  Bloggers will probably purchase then.  We’re going to wait until 6am.  We’ll see what happens!!


----------



## scrappinginontario

itf said:


> Depends on how the app works internally. It could already be there, but just not be visible until a date. It could also be that the app is really just a window into their website, in which case the app doesn't need to be updated.


You could be correct, I'm just going based on historical major changes to the app.  My version is currently 6.22 and personally I'm guessing we'll see version 7 out within the next 24 hours.  But, just my guess.


----------



## lorileahb

scrappinginontario said:


> You could be correct, I'm just going based on historical major changes to the app.  My version is currently 6.22 and personally I'm guessing we'll see version 7 out within the next 24 hours.  But, just my guess.



I'm tech-challenged.  Does this mean I need to go to the app store to install an app update or will the app update push automatically?  Thanks.


----------



## Sunelis

lorileahb said:


> I'm tech-challenged.  Does this mean I need to go to the app store to install an app update or will the app update push automatically?  Thanks.


Should update by itself... Unless you have disabled "Automatic update" on your phone.


----------



## cm8

disneyworldsk said:


> countdown....one day to genie+ and the genie will grant you your wish......


Or create your worst nightmare


----------



## kingslyyy

I worry that the Genie+ plus line will be super long, as most familys spending big money on a vacation wont skimp out on a $100 day to skip all the lines.


----------



## shawthorne44

kingslyyy said:


> I worry that the Genie+ plus line will be super long, as most familys spending big money on a vacation wont skimp out on a $100 day to skip all the lines.



They will let the standby line come to a complete standstill before that happens.  
Worst case would be that LL turns into standby. But there are lots of people that have said they won't buy it.


----------



## kingslyyy

shawthorne44 said:


> They will let the standby line come to a complete standstill before that happens.
> Worst case would be that LL turns into standby. But there are lots of people that have said they won't buy it.


Its hard to imagine spending $5k on four night trip and then skimping on Genie+, hope i am wrong.


----------



## lorileahb

Sunelis said:


> Should update by itself... Unless you have disabled "Automatic update" on your phone.



Thank you - I will check for that.


----------



## cm8

kingslyyy said:


> Its hard to imagine spending $5k on four night trip and then skimping on Genie+, hope i am wrong.


It may have taken some families months/ years to save that amount. Adding on any more may not be feasible for them. You can’t get blood from a turnip!


----------



## scrappinginontario

kingslyyy said:


> Its hard to imagine spending $5k on four night trip and then skimping on Genie+, hope i am wrong.


If the money isn't there, the money isn't there.  

And, some who may have the money, still may choose not to purchase if they can accomplish their trip without Genie+.  I don't think Genie+ is going to become a 'must' for everyone.  I know for us we'll add it if we have to but I have other places I have allocated that money to so to add Genie+ means we'd miss out on other things.  The budget only stretches so far.


----------



## Juventus

kingslyyy said:


> I worry that the Genie+ plus line will be super long, as most familys spending big money on a vacation wont skimp out on a $100 day to skip all the lines.


The lines for LL can not be as long as they were for FP+: You can only ride each line once now and not everyone will pay for it (everyone had it for free before).


----------



## trompettecon

Violetspider said:


> No, but you can only ride each G+ attraction once that day.


Apparently there will be a limit of rides with Genie Plus. I heard 8...


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

trompettecon said:


> Apparently there will be a limit of rides with Genie Plus. I heard 8...


The 8 ride limit is for regular (free) Genie planning, not G+.  There has not been any limit announced for G+ and I doubt there will be.


----------



## glocon

trompettecon said:


> Apparently there will be a limit of rides with Genie Plus. I heard 8...


Where are people hearing the limit for rides is 8?


----------



## scrappinginontario

trompettecon said:


> Apparently there will be a limit of rides with Genie Plus. I heard 8...





ENJDisneyFan said:


> The 8 ride limit is for regular (free) Genie planning, not G+.  There has not been any limit announced for G+ and I doubt there will be.


Yes, if I'm reading things correctly, the limit of 8 appears to be the top number of things to enter into your (free) Genie 'wish list' of things you hope to accomplish in a day.  The free Genie planning tool will allow you to enter up to 8 selections and then create and optimize a touring plan for you.

What I'm curious to find out is, if I add 'Haunted Mansion' to my Genie selections, once I've ridden it, will I be able to remove it and add something else I want to ride/see? 

Not sure if others know more about how that will work?


----------



## Violetspider

scrappinginontario said:


> Yes, if I'm reading things correctly, the limit of 8 appears to be the top number of things to enter into your (free) Genie 'wish list' of things you hope to accomplish in a day.  The free Genie planning tool will allow you to enter up to 8 selections and then create and optimize a touring plan for you.
> 
> What I'm curious to find out is, if I add 'Haunted Mansion' to my Genie selections, once I've ridden it, will I be able to remove it and add something else I want to ride/see?
> 
> Not sure if others know more about how that will work?


Apparently free Genie will automatically remove the Haunted Mansion from your wish list once you've ridden it. You've basically check off that box, so Genie will no longer try to get you there but will move on the rest of your wishes. Be able to add another is something I don't know.


----------



## mouschievous

With DL's MaxPass (and I think with FP+? but I'm a World newbie, so...), there were a finite number of fast passes for each ride during each time period, which is what kept it fast.  We rode Radiator Springs with like a 20 minute wait in the FP lane when the standby lane was 2 hours. I watched the AllEars video about Genie+ last night (thank you for the rec!) and she said the same is true for Genie+/LL, so the LL line should always be faster.

And yes, thank you to everyone taking one for the team tomorrow.  I do not envy you having to deal with this roll out in real time.


----------



## Disturbia

I should be able to add GENIE+ to my trip today If I was going tomorrow.  I don’t see any option.


----------



## Disturbia

glocon said:


> Where are people hearing the limit for rides is 8?



It was in the video by dis unplugged.  for all we know it could be an error.

At 18 mins they talk about the removal of a ride for genie (free) if you ride standby

at 34 mins they talk about stacking genie+ (booking one at 7 am and another at 9 am if the park opens at say 10 am)

*edit:  LL description in the app says you can book next LL after first one has been redeemed or the time expired, so no stacking*

at 35 mins it’s genie+ limited to 8

*edit:  Genie+ description in app just says ‘throughout the day’, so no indication of limits. *


----------



## erionm

Disturbia said:


> I should be able to add GENIE+ to my trip today If I was going tomorrow.  I don’t see any option.


Morning of when purchasing for a single day.


----------



## scrappinginontario

Disturbia said:


> I should be able to add GENIE+ to my trip today If I was going tomorrow.  I don’t see any option.


The app has not been updated yet to allow for the purchase of Genie+ or a ILL$ attraction.  

It doesn't start until tomorrow but many thought we might have the update by now and it just not turned on but that does not appear to have happened yet.


----------



## MDIME

Will there be a separate thread for "live" or a "we've tried Genie+ and these are our results" kind of thread or will those things be seen here on this thread?


----------



## SCDisneyfanatic

I spoke yesterday evening with a CM to make sure I had the process correct.  I was told: 1) the App should auto update on the 19th.  If not, re-do the download from the App store. (but unlikely to be needed); 2) Once that updates I can purchase Genie+ for the 2 days out of 4 that we want to use it.  Yes, only for the 2 Magic Kingdom days because the Granddaughters are 4 yo and 2 yo so no need for the other parks that have limited little kid rides.  What I'm interested in seeing is if I can pre-purchase the Genie+ days (the option...not actually securing rides), can I also pre-purchase ILL for certain days.


----------



## scrappinginontario

MDIME said:


> Will there be a separate thread for "live" or a "we've tried Genie+ and these are our results" kind of thread or will those things be seen here on this thread?


To start with, comments can continue to be made here.  We will start an 'Everything Genie' thread but until we have enough details to make the information valuable, comments can continue to be made on this thread.  We will transfer any relevant information into that thread.


----------



## shawthorne44

SCDisneyfanatic said:


> can I also pre-purchase ILL for certain days.


You have to wait until the day-of.   7 am if you are onsite, once tapped into a park otherwise.   
I believe that adding G+ to just part of your trip will have to be day-of also.   You can prepurchase G+ by adding it to your tickets for every day.


----------



## SCDisneyfanatic

shawthorne44 said:


> You have to wait until the day-of.   7 am if you are onsite, once tapped into a park otherwise.
> I believe that adding G+ to just part of your trip will have to be day-of also.   You can prepurchase G+ by adding it to your tickets for every day.


That is not what the CM told me.  I specifically said I only wanted to purchase the Genie+ for 2 specific days and she said I would be able to do that and just need to link it to my tickets already linked in MDE.  I'll know for sure tomorrow and will report back.


----------



## scrappinginontario

SCDisneyfanatic said:


> I spoke yesterday evening with a CM to make sure I had the process correct.  I was told: 1) the App should auto update on the 19th.  If not, re-do the download from the App store. (but unlikely to be needed); 2) Once that updates I can purchase Genie+ for the 2 days out of 4 that we want to use it.  Yes, only for the 2 Magic Kingdom days because the Granddaughters are 4 yo and 2 yo so no need for the other parks that have limited little kid rides.  What I'm interested in seeing is if I can pre-purchase the Genie+ days (the option...not actually securing rides), can I also pre-purchase ILL for certain days.


My understanding (as of now) is that if you only want to purchase G+ for certain days of your trip, you will need to wait until at least 12:00:01 AM to do so.  I don't think you can buy it in advance if you're only purchasing for select days.

ILL$ rides can be purchased day of.  If you're staying onsite that will start at 7:00AM.  For offsite guests, those will be available once the park is open.


----------



## SCDisneyfanatic

scrappinginontario said:


> My understanding (as of now) is that if you only want to purchase G+ for certain days of your trip, you will need to wait until at least 12:00:01 AM to do so.  I don't think you can buy it in advance if you're only purchasing for select days.
> 
> ILL$ rides can be purchased day of.  If you're staying onsite that will start at 7:00AM.  For offsite guests, those will be available once the park is open.


I guess they should give their CMs better cliff's notes.      Of course, since you can't secure rides until the day of anyway, it makes no sense to not let you purchase them ahead of time.  We are staying on property so guess I'll have to do the purchase each of those 2 days along with a potential ILL$ ...just more "paperwork" for everyone involved.


----------



## lorileahb

If you purchase Genie+ before your trip, that just means you are set to click on your first Lightening Lane at 7 a.m. (correct?) - then after that one is used in the park, you can pick the next available and so on throughout the day (only 1 ride on the available Genie+-level rides each day).

For LL+ (or whatever is called), if you are staying on site, at 7 a.m. you can buy the time you want (hopefully, or the time that is left) for your first of two-available headline attractions.  At 9 a.m. (or if you have used your first LL+) you can buy/book your second/final of the day.  And, if you are staying off site - you can buy your first one when the park opens/you are in the park.

Does that sound right?  A little confused still.. LOL


----------



## scrappinginontario

SCDisneyfanatic said:


> I guess they should give their CMs better cliff's notes.      Of course, since you can't secure rides until the day of anyway, it makes no sense to not let you purchase them ahead of time.  We are staying on property so guess I'll have to do the purchase each of those 2 days along with a potential ILL$ ...just more "paperwork" for everyone involved.


I look at it as giving the purchaser the option to change up their plans.  If I book MK for Monday and purchase G+ in advance, what would happen if I changed my plans, decided to go to Epcot and no longer wanted G+ for that day?  My thoughts in why they 'appear' to be leaving it until day of to add is so that hopefully plans are finalized to save guests trying to get a refund if their plans change.

But as with much of this, that is just a guess on my part.


----------



## trompettecon

SCDisneyfanatic said:


> I spoke yesterday evening with a CM to make sure I had the process correct.  I was told: 1) the App should auto update on the 19th.  If not, re-do the download from the App store. (but unlikely to be needed); 2) Once that updates I can purchase Genie+ for the 2 days out of 4 that we want to use it.  Yes, only for the 2 Magic Kingdom days because the Granddaughters are 4 yo and 2 yo so no need for the other parks that have limited little kid rides.  What I'm interested in seeing is if I can pre-purchase the Genie+ days (th.e option...not actually securing rides), can I also pre-purchase ILL for certain days.


No. ILL is day of. And if you are not going to be staying on site, you will have to wait until the park opens to book your ILLs.


----------



## shawthorne44

SCDisneyfanatic said:


> I guess they should give their CMs better cliff's notes.      Of course, since you can't secure rides until the day of anyway, it makes no sense to not let you purchase them ahead of time.  We are staying on property so guess I'll have to do the purchase each of those 2 days along with a potential ILL$ ...just more "paperwork" for everyone involved.



My personal theory is that the way it has been described is easier on Disney IT, since they don't have to figure out what day you are buying.    If you add it to the ticket, like park hopper, it is for every day.  If you add it for a day, it is that day.  Yes, it shouldn't be that hard, but this is Disney IT we are talking about.


----------



## fumanchu2488

This is going to be quite the show.  I am here now and spoke with several cast members who all have no idea what is going on.

I asked if there was an update needed for the App or if it would show up.  They think Genie will get pushed to the app without an update.  Then I started asking about timing, virtual queue for Remy vs ILL for Remy and how that works with everything starting at 7.  Also asked about how we load our preferences for standard Genie.  When we can pay for Genie+ and then book our first ride.  How we do all of that at 7 am and have to buy it first.  They don’t even know when we can buy it.  After a few minutes all 3 cast members I spoke with gave up and said they wished they had more answers but my guess would be as good as theirs.


----------



## Disturbia

shawthorne44 said:


> My personal theory is that the way it has been described is easier on Disney IT, since they don't have to figure out what day you are buying.    If you add it to the ticket, like park hopper, it is for every day.  If you add it for a day, it is that day.  Yes, it shouldn't be that hard, but this is Disney IT we are talking about.


I had issues with payment processing; sometimes it shows up on my app sometimes it doesn’t; on my iPad I have to use a safari saved credit card as my Disney visa card never auto populates (CMs can see it saved).  Hence it make sense to purchase ahead of time.  And I don’t want to wake up all of the kids together at 7 am while trying to scan my card and quietly screaming in my head.


----------



## Disturbia

screen Shot and print everything (ADRs, tickets etc) before you update.  My account got messed up because Disney had me erase my history (MBs wouldn’t show tickets and we had to wait 2 hours outside Epcot-DD was in fleece pants). I did it by opening a new account and then they deleted stuff and then went back to my original email.  They erased something so I don’t show up as a visacardholder and I don’t get notifications sent at midnight (my tickets get grayed-I didn’t get the notification on ROTR change).  No compensation as we got close to park closing and the rude CM said you have extra magic hours.

Same thing with Halloween tickets, we had to wait 1.5 hrs even though I showed them my purchase and they wouldn’t give a wristband.  They couldn’t care less and there was no anytime fast pass or anything Issued (we missed 2 Each day).


----------



## bsmcneil

SCDisneyfanatic said:


> I guess they should give their CMs better cliff's notes.      Of course, since you can't secure rides until the day of anyway, it makes no sense to not let you purchase them ahead of time.  We are staying on property so guess I'll have to do the purchase each of those 2 days along with a potential ILL$ ...just more "paperwork" for everyone involved.


Financially for TDWC, it might make more sense because there might be the hope that people just do the simplest thing, which is opt-in for all days which would increase how much TDWC brings in (vs. having people think and debate and only choose certain days). From a consumer perspective, I agree it doesn't make total sense/seems like you should be able to do what you're thinking - but it doesn't surprise me (and I don't mean that pejoratively) that this is the default route.


----------



## scrappinginontario

I'm guessing (and nothing official to back this up), that they're hoping most non-Disney/first timers/people who don't go on a regular basis, will purchase Genie+ for the entire length of their stay.

Some may purchase because they feel they 'need' it.  Others may think they 'have' to.  Others, well, they just will.

I think those of us who are going to purchase it only as needed will be in the minority.  I think most people will either be all in or all out and not pick and choose.


----------



## MJJME

trompettecon said:


> Apparently there will be a limit of rides with Genie Plus. I heard 8...



not true....you can ride every ride once


----------



## slo

How and when do you buy the lightning lane at WDW?
I have to confess - I haven’t been to WDW since 2012 and my DH just surprised me with a trip in November. I have to update my WDW knowledge before then.

*I apologize if this is a repetitive question. I hang out at The Community Board so I don’t know what transpires on the other boards.


----------



## scrappinginontario

MJJME said:


> not true....you can ride every ride once


Just to qualify this, yes you can, as long as there is LL availability.  Some rides will fill to capacity for the day so it will be interesting to see if it's even possible to get a LL for each.  Off the top of my head, I think it will be extremely difficult to do.


----------



## MrBellatrixLestrange

Under normal circumstances I would strongly consider buying the Genie+ for MK and HS but not for Epcot or AK. Still undecided on the IAS rides but I'll have an answer in a couple weeks.


----------



## Disturbia

MJJME said:


> not true....you can ride every ride once


That was Maxpass which allowed acces to 22 rides; Genie+ in Disneyland is confirmed to have access to less than that (around 15)

We don’t have confirmation on WDW Genie+

https://www.disneyfoodblog.com/2021/08/18/how-is-disney-genie-different-from-maxpass-in-disneyland/


----------



## MJJME

lorileahb said:


> If you purchase Genie+ before your trip, that just means you are set to click on your first Lightening Lane at 7 a.m. (correct?) - then after that one is used in the park, you can pick the next available and so on throughout the day (only 1 ride on the available Genie+-level rides each day).
> 
> For LL+ (or whatever is called), if you are staying on site, at 7 a.m. you can buy the time you want (hopefully, or the time that is left) for your first of two-available headline attractions.  At 9 a.m. (or if you have used your first LL+) you can buy/book your second/final of the day.  And, if you are staying off site - you can buy your first one when the park opens/you are in the park.
> 
> Does that sound right?  A little confused still.. LOL



No thats not correct....you have them flip flopped

one Genie+ ride can be booked at 7am for all guests then a second can be booked either after you check in for your first one OR 120 mins after booking your first one even if you havent used it........the 120 mins does not start until park opening

(for eg, you book at 7am for TT in epcot and get the first Genie+ return at 11am when park opens......as soon as you check into TT at 11am, you can book your second Genie+ ride.........OR.........you slept in and then woke up late and booked at 9am for TT in epcot and get a return time of 2:15 (because everyone that booked from 7am until 9am took the earlier times)....your 120 mins window starts at park opening so at 1pm you can book a second Genie+, thus having 2 at the same time, the TT at 2:15 and whatever you booked for a second...


So you can see in this second scenario, it is a BIG disadvantage if you dont book at 7am because i wouldnt be able to book my second Genie+ until way later as opposed to when i booked at 7am, whether i used my first Genie+ reservation or not



For LL, both can be purchased at 7am by resort guests and park opening for non resorts guests....they can both be booked at once and you get to pick your return time (Think FP+)


----------



## slo

MrBellatrixLestrange said:


> Under normal circumstances I would strongly consider buying the Genie+ for MK and HS but not for Epcot or AK. Still undecided on the IAS rides but I'll have an answer in a couple weeks.



Where do you purchase that?
I looked on the App Store and it doesn’t appear


----------



## JenSop

I've been able to stay mostly up to date on this thread, but honeslty haven't read the last five pages or so.

I'm just super frustrated that Disney hasn't released ALL the information.  If you're going to launch this big huge thing, you should have all the details ready for guests.  One of my jobs is a tour director on European river cruises.  We're not allowed to be vague when it comes to ANYTHING.  We have to be specific on every detail.  

It feels like Disney doesn't even have the details thought through.  They're just going to "throw it out there" and see what happens.  And that frustrates me to no end!


----------



## JenSop

fumanchu2488 said:


> This is going to be quite the show.  I am here now and spoke with several cast members who all have no idea what is going on.
> 
> I asked if there was an update needed for the App or if it would show up.  They think Genie will get pushed to the app without an update.  Then I started asking about timing, virtual queue for Remy vs ILL for Remy and how that works with everything starting at 7.  Also asked about how we load our preferences for standard Genie.  When we can pay for Genie+ and then book our first ride.  How we do all of that at 7 am and have to buy it first.  They don’t even know when we can buy it.  After a few minutes all 3 cast members I spoke with gave up and said they wished they had more answers but my guess would be as good as theirs.


I have to say I'm not even the slightest bit surprised....


----------



## Disturbia

I just read a description on ‘Lightening Lane’ in the app and that says you can book another attraction if you purchase Genie+ after the arrival time has passed or you have redeemed the pass, whichever comes first.  So no stacking!


----------



## MJJME

Disturbia said:


> I just read a description on ‘Lightening Lane’ in the app and that says you can book another attraction if you purchase Genie+ after the arrival time has passed or you have redeemed the pass, whichever comes first.  So no stacking!


Not true.....read my post from a few mins ago........you can have 2 Genie+ ressies at once (if thats what you mean by stacking)

only thing they havent clarified is you can have 3 or more, but you can def have 2


----------



## MJJME

Disturbia said:


> I just read a description on ‘Lightening Lane’ in the app and that says you can book another attraction if you purchase Genie+ after the arrival time has passed or you have redeemed the pass, whichever comes first.  So no stacking!




Heres what I wrote in case you missed it


one Genie+ ride can be booked at 7am for all guests (meaning resort and non resort guests) then a second can be booked either after you check in for your first one OR 120 mins after booking your first one even if you havent used it........the 120 mins does not start until park opening

(for eg, you book at 7am for TT in epcot and get the first Genie+ return at 11am when park opens......as soon as you check into TT at 11am, you can book your second Genie+ ride.........you cannot book your second one at 9am (120 mins after you booked your first at 7am) because the 120 countdown doesnt start until park opening (in this case, 11am).................OR.........you slept in and then woke up late and booked at 9am for TT in epcot and get a return time of 2:15 (because everyone that booked from 7am until 9am took the earlier times)....your 120 mins window starts at park opening so at 1pm you can book a second Genie+, thus having 2 at the same time, the TT at 2:15 and whatever you booked for a second at 1pm...


So you can see in this second scenario, it is a BIG disadvantage if you dont book at 7am because i wouldnt be able to book my second Genie+ until way later as opposed to when i booked at 7am, whether i used my first Genie+ reservation or not


----------



## MrBellatrixLestrange

slo said:


> Where do you purchase that?
> I looked on the App Store and it doesn’t appear


I think it's through the MDE?


----------



## lvdis

It doesn't start until tomorrow, October 19, 2021.

You can check out the official information here - https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/genie/lightning-lane/


----------



## slo

Great!
Thank you everyone!!


----------



## goofynut41

MJJME said:


> Heres what I wrote in case you missed it
> 
> 
> one Genie+ ride can be booked at 7am for all guests (meaning resort and non resort guests) then a second can be booked either after you check in for your first one OR 120 mins after booking your first one even if you havent used it........the 120 mins does not start until park opening
> 
> (for eg, you book at 7am for TT in epcot and get the first Genie+ return at 11am when park opens......as soon as you check into TT at 11am, you can book your second Genie+ ride.........you cannot book your second one at 9am (120 mins after you booked your first at 7am) because the 120 countdown doesnt start until park opening (in this case, 11am).................OR.........you slept in and then woke up late and booked at 9am for TT in epcot and get a return time of 2:15 (because everyone that booked from 7am until 9am took the earlier times)....your 120 mins window starts at park opening so at 1pm you can book a second Genie+, thus having 2 at the same time, the TT at 2:15 and whatever you booked for a second at 1pm...
> 
> 
> So you can see in this second scenario, it is a BIG disadvantage if you dont book at 7am because i wouldnt be able to book my second Genie+ until way later as opposed to when i booked at 7am, whether i used my first Genie+ reservation or not


OH MY GOD!!!! THIS IS SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO CONFUSING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I"M LOST AS A GOOSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## motherof5

I had a feeling that free fast passes were gone.  Sad to say they are revamping things that they stopped using the excuse covid.


----------



## Grumpy by Birth

goofynut41 said:


> OH MY GOD!!!! THIS IS SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO CONFUSING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I"M LOST AS A GOOSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## WNYDisneyDad

In case you hadn’t seen, Disney stated that you will always be able to purchase Genie+, since it’ll not sell out. As stated, it launches tomorrow, so you can see how the first few days go and if it’s worth it prior to purchasing. If you’d like.


----------



## fly girl

mom2rtk said:


> Honestly, because there are 3 parks without enough attractions, I see no way they make it unlimited like MaxPass. People would clog up the Lightning Lane for those few attractions way too quickly. Disneyland has enough attractions to handle unlimited. So does MK but I'm sure they need to make it consistent.



I don't know about that. FP+ had all the rides and there was no clogging of the line because they limited the amount of FP's given in an allowed time. MaxPass was the same, you had to get a time slot. 

It isn't like Express Pass Unlimited at Universal. You can't just walk right into the line. If it was, then yeah, I could see a backlog but MaxPass wasn't like that at all. 




kingslyyy said:


> I worry that the Genie+ plus line will be super long, as most familys spending big money on a vacation wont skimp out on a $100 day to skip all the lines.



Again, I don't think it will. My take (and I could be wrong) I think it will be just like old FP+ but now you have to pay. You will have to pick a time slot, not everyone in the park can get on at the same time. It will run very similar FP time slots as MaxPass and FP+ did, with the big exception of FP+ that you cannot book 3 in advance.


----------



## MJJME

fly girl said:


> I don't know about that. FP+ had all the rides and there was no clogging of the line because they limited the amount of FP's given in an allowed time. MaxPass was the same, you had to get a time slot.
> 
> It isn't like Express Pass Unlimited at Universal. You can't just walk right into the line. If it was, then yeah, I could see a backlog but MaxPass wasn't like that at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Again, I don't think it will. My take (and I could be wrong) I think it will be just like old FP+ but now you have to pay. You will have to pick a time slot, not everyone in the park can get on at the same time. It will run very similar FP time slots as MaxPass and FP+ did, with the big exception of FP+ that you cannot book 3 in advance.


 That’s not how it works.  

IAS you can pick your return times (think FP+, but you have to pay per ride, 2 rides max per day, can book at 7am if resort guest or at park opening if non resort guest

Genie + you cannot pick your return time.  You get next available (think old paper fast pass)


----------



## mom2rtk

fly girl said:


> I don't know about that. FP+ had all the rides and there was no clogging of the line because they limited the amount of FP's given in an allowed time. MaxPass was the same, you had to get a time slot.


MP worked fine because there are plenty of attractions in the 2 parks of DLR.

I might beg to differ on FP+ clogging the lines, but to the extent that it didn't, the tiering in those 3 parks would be the reason why. Without tiering, or some other limiting principle, Genie+ could quickly overwhelm those limited number of rides in the 3 non castle parks at WDW.


----------



## rmclain73

MJJME said:


> Heres what I wrote in case you missed it
> 
> 
> one Genie+ ride can be booked at 7am for all guests (meaning resort and non resort guests) then a second can be booked either after you check in for your first one OR 120 mins after booking your first one even if you havent used it........the 120 mins does not start until park opening
> 
> (for eg, you book at 7am for TT in epcot and get the first Genie+ return at 11am when park opens......as soon as you check into TT at 11am, you can book your second Genie+ ride.........you cannot book your second one at 9am (120 mins after you booked your first at 7am) because the 120 countdown doesnt start until park opening (in this case, 11am).................OR.........you slept in and then woke up late and booked at 9am for TT in epcot and get a return time of 2:15 (because everyone that booked from 7am until 9am took the earlier times)....your 120 mins window starts at park opening so at 1pm you can book a second Genie+, thus having 2 at the same time, the TT at 2:15 and whatever you booked for a second at 1pm...
> 
> 
> So you can see in this second scenario, it is a BIG disadvantage if you dont book at 7am because i wouldnt be able to book my second Genie+ until way later as opposed to when i booked at 7am, whether i used my first Genie+ reservation or not



I have seen a lot of people use Epcot and the 11:00am as an example.  I was just there last week and got into Epcot at 8:30am as Disney resort guest.  Didn't Disney drop the 11:00am Epcot opening a while ago and change the opening time to 9:00am for non park guests?

This will just give people more availability for LL and LA$ passes.


----------



## MJJME

mom2rtk said:


> MP worked fine because there are plenty of attractions in the 2 parks of DLR.
> 
> I might beg to differ on FP+ clogging the lines, but to the extent that it didn't, the tiering in those 3 parks would be the reason why. Without tiering, or some other limiting principle, Genie+ could quickly overwhelm those limited number of rides in the 3 non castle parks at WDW.


I 100% agree with that.  WDW is 4 parks and a lot less attractions at each park and that’s a big difference. I would add MaxPass worked because it was a paid FP but also had a free FP option along with standby.

there’s no more free FP in DL with Genie+ And it’s either pay or wait in line.


----------



## MJJME

rmclain73 said:


> I have seen a lot of people use Epcot and the 11:00am as an example.  I was just there last week and got into Epcot at 8:30am as Disney resort guest.  Didn't Disney drop the 11:00am Epcot opening a while ago and change the opening time to 9:00am for non park guests?
> 
> This will just give people more time to get more LL passes.


It’s arbitrariy.  Just using it as an example.  Not necessarily the exact time opening.


----------



## jimim

fumanchu2488 said:


> This is going to be quite the show.  I am here now and spoke with several cast members who all have no idea what is going on.
> 
> I asked if there was an update needed for the App or if it would show up.  They think Genie will get pushed to the app without an update.  Then I started asking about timing, virtual queue for Remy vs ILL for Remy and how that works with everything starting at 7.  Also asked about how we load our preferences for standard Genie.  When we can pay for Genie+ and then book our first ride.  How we do all of that at 7 am and have to buy it first.  They don’t even know when we can buy it.  After a few minutes all 3 cast members I spoke with gave up and said they wished they had more answers but my guess would be as good as theirs.


I can believe it. Look a lot of the cast members are just trying to get a pay check. They prob don’t live breathe and sleep Disney like so many of us here. It is just another job just like millions of other people in the world.  Has every single employee been educated on all of the new system. I would assume only those who have direct access to rides each day would even to an extent but if you work in a shop or food or shows or so many other areas they prob haven’t even had in services on it yet.


----------



## shawthorne44

jimim said:


> I can believe it. Look a lot of the cast members are just trying to get a pay check. They prob don’t live breathe and sleep Disney like so many of us here. It is just another job just like millions of other people in the world.  Has every single employee been educated on all of the new system. I would assume only those who have direct access to rides each day would even to an extent but if you work in a shop or food or shows or so many other areas they prob haven’t even had in services on it yet.



Well, it is understandable that Disney doesn't tell us peon customers the complete facts because they want to change things later without documentation that it had been different.  But, employees could have been given a one page document with all the facts.   The CM's supposedly had training on this.   The problem is caused by management.


----------



## Tom_E_D

rmclain73 said:


> I have seen a lot of people use Epcot and the 11:00am as an example.  I was just there last week and got into Epcot at 8:30am as Disney resort guest.  Didn't Disney drop the 11:00am Epcot opening a while ago and change the opening time to 9:00am for non park guests?
> 
> This will just give people more availability for LL and LA$ passes.


Epcot "opened" at 9:00 from October 1-10 (early entry was at 8:30). It is now "opening" at 10:00, and is scheduled to return to an 11:00 "opening" on November 7. The 11:00 opening was only _temporarily_ dropped.


----------



## masupo

Disturbia said:


> That was Maxpass which allowed acces to 22 rides; Genie+ in Disneyland is confirmed to have access to less than that (around 15)
> 
> We don’t have confirmation on WDW Genie+
> 
> https://www.disneyfoodblog.com/2021/08/18/how-is-disney-genie-different-from-maxpass-in-disneyland/



We do have confirmation on the rides included with Genie+ at WDW

https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/genie/lightning-lane/#drawer-card-drawerRecommender


----------



## wisblue

MJJME said:


> That’s not how it works.
> 
> IAS you can pick your return times (think FP+, but you have to pay per ride, 2 rides max per day, can book at 7am if resort guest or at park opening if non resort guest
> 
> Genie + you cannot pick your return time.  You get next available (think old paper fast pass)



With the IAS you can choose your return time, but I think everyone assumes that you will only be able to choose available times, and that there will be a limit on how many passes are issued in any time slot, just like with FP+.

It remains to be seen if enough people will buy IAS to “sell out” an attraction, but I expect that they will at some of the attractions, especially during the busiest holiday times.

People facing a standby wait of 90 minutes or more for something like ROTR or FOP might decide that paying $15 or so to avoid that wait is a good deal.


----------



## Disturbia

MJJME said:


> Not true.....read my post from a few mins ago........you can have 2 Genie+ ressies at once (if thats what you mean by stacking)
> 
> only thing they havent clarified is you can have 3 or more, but you can def have 2


It’s on your MDE app (search for ‘Lightening Lane’)  The information directly from Disney states that:

When to Select Attractions 
Once you have Disney Genie+ service, you can select the next available arrival window for your first experience via the My Disney Experience mobile app beginning at 7:00 AM on the day of your visit.
*Once you’ve redeemed your initial selection (or the arrival window has passed), you can make another selection* using the app, up to park closing.


----------



## Disturbia

MJJME said:


> Heres what I wrote in case you missed it
> 
> 
> one Genie+ ride can be booked at 7am for all guests (meaning resort and non resort guests) then a second can be booked either after you check in for your first one OR 120 mins after booking your first one even if you havent used it........the 120 mins does not start until park opening
> 
> (for eg, you book at 7am for TT in epcot and get the first Genie+ return at 11am when park opens......as soon as you check into TT at 11am, you can book your second Genie+ ride.........you cannot book your second one at 9am (120 mins after you booked your first at 7am) because the 120 countdown doesnt start until park opening (in this case, 11am).................OR.........you slept in and then woke up late and booked at 9am for TT in epcot and get a return time of 2:15 (because everyone that booked from 7am until 9am took the earlier times)....your 120 mins window starts at park opening so at 1pm you can book a second Genie+, thus having 2 at the same time, the TT at 2:15 and whatever you booked for a second at 1pm...
> 
> 
> So you can see in this second scenario, it is a BIG disadvantage if you dont book at 7am because i wouldnt be able to book my second Genie+ until way later as opposed to when i booked at 7am, whether i used my first Genie+ reservation or not


Again, look at your MDE for information direct from Disney


----------



## Disturbia

masupo said:


> We do have confirmation on the rides included with Genie+ at WDW
> 
> https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/genie/lightning-lane/#drawer-card-drawerRecommender


We don’t have confirmation that they won’t limit the number of rides per day; they are indirectly limiting it by return times though


----------



## canyoncam

Not sure if this was mentioned-I’ve skipped the last few pages. But I talked to a cast member today who said she could answer “all my questions”. She couldn’t 
However, what most disturbed me was the fact she said if you make a Genie+ LL return time but choose to cancel you can no longer use the LL option on that ride again that day. So say you picked LL for PP and are given a return of 1pm but need to cancel because Susie feels ill at 12:45 but by 2pm Susie feels  better, you could no longer get another LL return for PP that day.
Hoping she is wrong.
Maybe you can “modify”


----------



## MJJME

Disturbia said:


> It’s on your MDE app (search for ‘Lightening Lane’)  The information directly from Disney states that:
> 
> When to Select Attractions
> Once you have Disney Genie+ service, you can select the next available arrival window for your first experience via the My Disney Experience mobile app beginning at 7:00 AM on the day of your visit.
> *Once you’ve redeemed your initial selection (or the arrival window has passed), you can make another selection* using the app, up to park closing.


Yeah that’s incorrect


----------



## MJJME

Disturbia said:


> Again, look at your MDE for information direct from Disney


That wrong.  Trust me, I know.


----------



## MJJME

canyoncam said:


> Not sure if this was mentioned-I’ve skipped the last few pages. But I talked to a cast member today who said she could answer “all my questions”. She couldn’t
> However, what most disturbed me was the fact she said if you make a Genie+ LL return time but choose to cancel you can no longer use the LL option on that ride again that day. So say you picked LL for PP and are given a return of 1pm but need to cancel because Susie feels ill at 12:45 but by 2pm Susie feels  better, you could no longer get another LL return for PP that day.
> Hoping she is wrong.
> Maybe you can “modify”


You cannot modify or cancel******

******i misread this originally.  I am not sure about. Genie + selections but I am sure you cannot modify or cancel IAS selections

Sorry for the confusion


----------



## Disturbia

MJJME said:


> That wrong.  Trust me, I know.


Can you give me more details on how you know.  We are all trying to piece this together and getting incomplete info from every direction


----------



## MJJME

Disturbia said:


> We don’t have confirmation that they won’t limit the number of rides per day; they are indirectly limiting it by return times though


All rides are on genie+ except for the 2 most popular rides at each park.  The only restriction is that you can only book each ride once with genie + (for eg. If you wanted to ride space mountain twice you would have to do standby either before or after you used your genie+ selection).  The 2 rides at each park are:

AK - FOP and Everest
Epcot -  RRat and frozen (will change to GOG when it opens)
MK - seven dwarfs and Space Mountain (will change to Tron when opened)
HS - ROTR and MMRR


----------



## MJJME

Disturbia said:


> Can you give me more details on how you know.  We are all trying to piece this together and getting incomplete info from every direction


I just do.  Moderator, can you also confirm please?  Moderator should also know.


----------



## Disturbia

MJJME said:


> All rides are on genie+ except for the 2 most popular rides at each park.  The only restriction is that you can only book each ride once with genie + (for eg. If you wanted to ride space mountain twice you would have to do standby either before or after you used your genie+ selection).  The 2 rides at each park are:
> 
> AK - FOP and Everest
> Epcot -  RRat and frozen (will change to GOG when it opens)
> MK - seven dwarfs and Space Mountain (will change to from when opened)
> HS - ROTR and MMRR


The limit on rides was a question asked by Dani on Dis unplugged and the answer she was give is there is a limit of 8 Genie+ rides.  There could have been some misunderstanding though, but they tried the app


----------



## Disturbia

Maybe the info on the MDE app is wrong also.  That’s possible as well


----------



## MJJME

Disturbia said:


> The limit on rides was a question asked by Dani on Dis unplugged and the answer she was give is there is a limit of 8 Genie+ rides.  There could have been some misunderstanding though, but they tried the app


No that’s for Genie (not Genie+) and that’s for doing a touring plan (like Len testas site currently does)


----------



## Disturbia

I would buy it either way as we don’t expect to do more than 10 rides Genie+ and LLIA


----------



## MJJME

Here’s the official Genie+ list of attractions:
*Magic Kingdom*

Big Thunder Mountain Railroad
Buzz Lightyear’s Space Ranger Spin
Dumbo the Flying Elephant
Haunted Mansion
“it’s a small world”
Jungle Cruise
Mad Tea Party
Magic Carpets of Aladdin
Mickey’s PhilharMagic
Monsters Inc. Laugh Floor
Peter Pan’s Flight
Pirates of the Caribbean
Splash Mountain
Goofy’s Barnstormer
The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh
Tomorrowland Speedway
Under the Sea ~ Journey of the Little Mermaid
*Epcot*

Disney & Pixar Short Film Festival
Journey into Imagination with Figment
Mission Space
Soarin’ Around the World
Spaceship Earth
Test Track
The Seas with Nemo & Friends
Turtle Talk with Crush
*Hollywood Studios*

Alien Swirling Saucers
Beauty and the Beast: Live on Stage
Disney Jr. Play & Dance
Frozen Sing-Along Celebration
Indiana Jones Epic Stunt Spectacular
Millennium Falcon: Smugglers Run
MuppetVision 3D
Rock ‘n’ Roller Coaster Starring Aerosmith
Slinky Dog Dash
Star Tours – The Adventures Continue
The Twilight Zone Tower of Terror
Toy Story Mania
*Animal Kingdom*

A Celebration of Festival of the Lion King
Dinosaur
It’s Tough to Be a Bug
Kali River Rapids
Kilimanjaro Safaris
Na’vi River Journey
The Animation Experience at Conservation Station
Feathered Friends in Flight


----------



## scrappinginontario

MJJME said:


> I just do.  *Moderator, can you also confirm please?  Moderator should also know.*


No, we cannot because we know no more than anyone else.

Some of what you're stating as 'fact' the moderators cannot confirm as we do not have enough information yet.


----------



## MJJME

Disturbia said:


> Maybe the info on the MDE app is wrong also.  That’s possible as well



*What if the return time for that selection is not until much later in the day?*
Walt Disney World has confirmed that guests will be able to make another reservation 120 minutes after their first reservation even if they have not yet redeemed the first Genie+ selection.
In practice, this means that you might make a reservation at 7:05 am for Splash Mountain that has a return time of 10:00 am. At 9:05 am–before riding Splash Mountain, you’d be able to make another ride reservation.


----------



## MJJME

scrappinginontario said:


> No, we cannot becuase we know no more than anyone else.
> 
> What you're stating as 'fact' we cannot confirm as we do not have enough information yet.


It has been confirmed


*What if the return time for that selection is not until much later in the day?*
Walt Disney World has confirmed that guests will be able to make another reservation 120 minutes after their first reservation even if they have not yet redeemed the first Genie+ selection.
In practice, this means that you might make a reservation at 7:05 am for Splash Mountain that has a return time of 10:00 am. At 9:05 am–before riding Splash Mountain, you’d be able to make another ride reservation.


----------



## MJJME

Disturbia said:


> I would buy it either way as we don’t expect to do more than 10 rides Genie+ and LLIA


You probably won’t need to and will see that after experiencing it first hand


----------



## scrappinginontario

MJJME said:


> *What if the return time for that selection is not until much later in the day?*
> Walt Disney World has confirmed that guests will be able to make another reservation 120 minutes after their first reservation even if they have not yet redeemed the first Genie+ selection.
> In practice, this means that you might make a reservation at 7:05 am for Splash Mountain that has a return time of 10:00 am. At 9:05 am–before riding Splash Mountain, you’d be able to make another ride reservation.





MJJME said:


> It has been confirmed
> 
> 
> *What if the return time for that selection is not until much later in the day?*
> Walt Disney World has confirmed that guests will be able to make another reservation 120 minutes after their first reservation even if they have not yet redeemed the first Genie+ selection.
> In practice, this means that you might make a reservation at 7:05 am for Splash Mountain that has a return time of 10:00 am. At 9:05 am–before riding Splash Mountain, you’d be able to make another ride reservation.


I feel you are confusing what bloggers etc. have said with what Disney has announced.  If Disney has officially announced the 120 min rule, please post a link to that information from on a Disney website.  I am working on creating a Genie thread and I cannot find that information on the Disney website anywhere.

I'm not saying it won't be this but as of writing, I cannot find this information published by Disney.


----------



## MJJME

scrappinginontario said:


> I feel you are confusing what bloggers etc have said with what Disney has announced.  If Disney has officially announced the 120 min rule, please post a link to that information from on a Disney website.  I am working on creating a Genie thread and I cannot find that information on the Disney website anywhere.


It was part of a presentation to TA’s

You don’t have to believe me , you will see for yourself tomorrow


----------



## masupo

Disturbia said:


> We don’t have confirmation that they won’t limit the number of rides per day; they are indirectly limiting it by return times though



No blogger/vlogger/media/travel agent has said they will limit the number of rides per day (except the one video you posted where I believe they misspoke. I'll watch it again).

Disney has said the passes are limited by availability but that's whether Splash Mountain is popular on a given day, not per user.


----------



## Sunelis

MJJME said:


> It was part of a presentation to TA’s
> 
> You don’t have to believe me , you will see for yourself tomorrow


It's hard to believe someone without proof. Especially as there as being so much contradictory information out there.


----------



## MJJME

masupo said:


> No blogger/vlogger/media/travel agent has said they will limit the number of rides per day (except the one video you posted where I believe they misspoke. I'll watch it again).
> 
> Disney has said the passes are limited by availability but that's whether Splash Mountain is popular on a given day, not per user.


Correct.  They can sell out due to demand like old paper fast passes used to


----------



## MJJME

Sunelis said:


> It's hard to believe someone without proof. Especially as there as being so much contradictory information out there.


It’s ok to not believe me, especially since is debuts tomorrow 

But you will find out then that I’m correct.


----------



## masupo

Disturbia said:


> It’s on your MDE app (search for ‘Lightening Lane’)  The information directly from Disney states that:
> 
> When to Select Attractions
> Once you have Disney Genie+ service, you can select the next available arrival window for your first experience via the My Disney Experience mobile app beginning at 7:00 AM on the day of your visit.
> *Once you’ve redeemed your initial selection (or the arrival window has passed), you can make another selection* using the app, up to park closing.





Disturbia said:


> Again, look at your MDE for information direct from Disney





Sunelis said:


> It's hard to believe someone without proof. Especially as there as being so much contradictory information out there.



The 120 minute rule has been reported by multiple sources. Enough that Every. Single. One. can't be wrong. 

It's identical to the 90 minute rule that existed with Maxpass. That was never published by Disney either.

I can understand the mods not wanting to include it in their posts until we see it in action. 

I'm going with the standard:  Mentioned by one source, not that credible. Confirmed by 100 sources, likely to be true. 

Of course this is all my opinion and we'll know tomorrow.


----------



## lovethattink

MJJME said:


> That wrong.  Trust me, I know.



Were you at the media event? I wasn’t. So anything I know is second hand. And will find out for sure tomorrow when I’m at WDW trying out just the free part of Genie Plus. Because my main reason for going to the MK is to get a coconut dole whip.


----------



## fly girl

MJJME said:


> That’s not how it works.
> 
> IAS you can pick your return times (think FP+, but you have to pay per ride, 2 rides max per day, can book at 7am if resort guest or at park opening if non resort guest
> 
> Genie + you cannot pick your return time.  You get next available (think old paper fast pass)



I was solely referring to G+ not IA$. I get that IA$ is a different beast. Sorry for not clarifying. Previous post was on G+, I was referring to that aspect only.


----------



## scrappinginontario

MJJME said:


> It was part of a presentation to TA’s
> 
> You don’t have to believe me , you will see for yourself tomorrow


To clarify, I am not saying this won't happen, I'm just not willing to say, 'Disney said....' when I don't have any proof either on their website or, from guests who are using it live in the parks.   I am not a TA and have no insight other than the information that is available to all.

That's my hold up, not that your information re: 120 mins is incorrect. It's just too early for me to support you 100% as I personally don't have enough information.


----------



## fly girl

mom2rtk said:


> MP worked fine because there are plenty of attractions in the 2 parks of DLR.
> 
> I might beg to differ on FP+ clogging the lines, but to the extent that it didn't, the tiering in those 3 parks would be the reason why. Without tiering, or some other limiting principle, Genie+ could quickly overwhelm those limited number of rides in the 3 non castle parks at WDW.



Good point with Tiers, but I still think they could devise a way to get G+ like FP+.

As you know I’m a re-rider, and this is my bone of contention with G+. I never used standby unless it was walk on or single rider with very minimal wait. We utilized FP+ and MP.

We will have to agree to disagree as our touring styles are different and what works for one won’t work for the other.

I know what nobody wants is more paid, but I’d love a GenieMax with re-rides allowed. I’d pay more, but I know others might not agree.


----------



## moorish

MJJME said:


> You cannot modify or cancel



You can't modify a G+ selection? So say you have a G+ pass for Splash at 12:30 and something comes up and there's a 3:30 Splash available later, you can't switch to the 3:30 before 12:30?

To be clear, I don't mean the paid-per-ride ones.


----------



## fly girl

moorish said:


> You can't modify a G+ selection? So say you have a G+ pass for Splash at 12:30 and something comes up and there's a 3:30 Splash available later, you can't switch to the 3:30 before 12:30?
> 
> To be clear, I don't mean the paid-per-ride ones.



I swore Molly said you could modify G+ selections. 

We will find out tomorrow. Posters on here can tell me to the cows come home to trust them and they could be right, but they could be wrong. Who the heck knows with 100% certainty?  No one, that's who!! Seriously, I don't think Disney even has a clue at this point.   JK with that last sentence ... kinda.


----------



## moorish

fly girl said:


> I swore Molly said you could modify G+ selections.
> 
> We will find out tomorrow. Posters on here can tell me to the cows come home to trust them and they could be right, but they could be wrong. Who the heck knows with 100% certainty?  No one, that's who!! Seriously, I don't think Disney even has a clue at this point.   JK with that last sentence ... kinda.


I really hope it isn't true. This is the only place I've read it so fingers crossed. Everything else tracks with what I've read elsewhere.


----------



## fly girl

moorish said:


> I really hope it isn't true. This is the only place I've read it so fingers crossed. Everything else tracks with what I've read elsewhere.



Time marker 19:35


----------



## katyringo

Tomorrow tomorrow tomorrow! It's only a day  away!!!


----------



## katyringo

For what it's worth since this is a discussion thread and no one knows anything for sure he is what I think it's gonna be like:

I think genie plus will run basically just like maxpass but without re rides. It will have a cool down period and you will be able to stack them. There won't be a limit on how many you can get in a day. Cool down/stacking period won't depend on park opening time making it just as helpful at Epcot. You will be able to cancel genie plus selections just like a dinning reservation and make a new one. 

the free genie will be cool and your average guests will use it. Disney will use it to help move crowds. . those of us in the know will use our tips and tricks and learn to maximize Disney genie the same way we do with touring plans, etc.  

Basically I don't give Disney credit for creating a whole new fastpass system in 18 months.... I think it's re branded maxpass with some tweaks. I can't wait to learn more about it tomorrow. But I'm not overly worried about it having a major impact on my touring style.


----------



## Mike Mantis

Sitting in the Wilderness Lodge Lobby as I type this wondering if I should get this for my MK visit tomorrow. Interested to see how smooth this launch goes. Disney IT has never failed us before right? ;-)


----------



## canyoncam

MJJME said:


> You cannot modify or cancel


That is the breaking point for me. If I’m penalized to totally lose a ride (I know standby is still an option) because I cannot modify my time for a legitimate reason, then I truly am paying for nothing. And to be clear,  I was referring to G+ not ILL$ attractions as I mentioned Peter Pan as the example which was what the cast member used in her example.


----------



## fly girl

Mike Mantis said:


> Sitting in the Wilderness Lodge Lobby as I type this wondering if I should get this for my MK visit tomorrow. Interested to see how smooth this launch goes. Disney IT has never failed us before right? ;-)



I'd go for it, but I am a gambler.


----------



## MJJME

moorish said:


> You can't modify a G+ selection? So say you have a G+ pass for Splash at 12:30 and something comes up and there's a 3:30 Splash available later, you can't switch to the 3:30 before 12:30?
> 
> To be clear, I don't mean the paid-per-ride ones.


Sorry for the confusion 

No sorry.  You cannot modify or cancel an IAS selection.  This I am sure about.

I am not sure about Genie+ Selections, that was not brought up during our presentation


----------



## wisblue

MJJME said:


> It has been confirmed
> 
> 
> *What if the return time for that selection is not until much later in the day?*
> Walt Disney World has confirmed that guests will be able to make another reservation 120 minutes after their first reservation even if they have not yet redeemed the first Genie+ selection.
> In practice, this means that you might make a reservation at 7:05 am for Splash Mountain that has a return time of 10:00 am. At 9:05 am–before riding Splash Mountain, you’d be able to make another ride reservation.



It would be great if this were true, but I was under the impression that the 120 minute period wouldn’t start running until the park opened.

If you could make one reservation at 7, then another one at 9, even if you haven’t used the first one yet, that would make Genie+ more attractive. Then you could have two active LL passes in your pocket and do a couple more attractions standby before using them.


----------



## scrappinginontario

Mike Mantis said:


> Sitting in the Wilderness Lodge Lobby as I type this wondering if I should get this for my MK visit tomorrow. Interested to see how smooth this launch goes. Disney IT has never failed us before right? ;-)


If it were me I'd go for it as I'm guessing the average guest doesn't have a clue this is starting tomorrow so you can get a lot of rides done in a short amount of time!


----------



## Sunelis

Just want to wish good luck to all the Genie-pigs tomorrow. Please keep us posted.


----------



## elgerber

We are at Epcot tomorrow. I wasn’t originally planning to buy + just the ILL. But I think I will just so I can see how it works so we won’t be figuring it all out at MK


----------



## Party.Of.4-NY>>>FL

MJJME said:


> *All rides are on genie+ except for the 2 most popular rides at each park.*  The only restriction is that you can only book each ride once with genie + (for eg. If you wanted to ride space mountain twice you would have to do standby either before or after you used your genie+ selection).  The 2 rides at each park are:
> 
> AK - FOP and Everest
> Epcot -  RRat and frozen (will change to GOG when it opens)
> MK - seven dwarfs and Space Mountain (will change to Tron when opened)
> HS - ROTR and MMRR



Question about the bolded:  
Does this mean that rides such as Peoplemover and Astro Orbiter will be included with Genie+?   Or did you mean to say that all rides that previously offered FP+ will be offered with Genie+?


----------



## MJJME

Party.Of.4-NY>>>FL said:


> Question about the bolded:
> Does this mean that rides such as Peoplemover and Astro Orbiter will be included with Genie+?   Or did you mean to say that all rides that previously offered FP+ will be offered with Genie+?



it’s previous fast pass, but they should be included!   How could they leave off country bear jamboree?!?!?!?

Here’s the list.

Here’s the official Genie+ list of attractions:
Magic Kingdom

Big Thunder Mountain Railroad
Buzz Lightyear’s Space Ranger Spin
Dumbo the Flying Elephant
Haunted Mansion
“it’s a small world”
Jungle Cruise
Mad Tea Party
Magic Carpets of Aladdin
Mickey’s PhilharMagic
Monsters Inc. Laugh Floor
Peter Pan’s Flight
Pirates of the Caribbean
Splash Mountain
Goofy’s Barnstormer
The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh
Tomorrowland Speedway
Under the Sea ~ Journey of the Little Mermaid
Epcot

Disney & Pixar Short Film Festival
Journey into Imagination with Figment
Mission Space
Soarin’ Around the World
Spaceship Earth
Test Track
The Seas with Nemo & Friends
Turtle Talk with Crush
Hollywood Studios

Alien Swirling Saucers
Beauty and the Beast: Live on Stage
Disney Jr. Play & Dance
Frozen Sing-Along Celebration
Indiana Jones Epic Stunt Spectacular
Millennium Falcon: Smugglers Run
MuppetVision 3D
Rock ‘n’ Roller Coaster Starring Aerosmith
Slinky Dog Dash
Star Tours – The Adventures Continue
The Twilight Zone Tower of Terror
Toy Story Mania
Animal Kingdom

A Celebration of Festival of the Lion King
Dinosaur
It’s Tough to Be a Bug
Kali River Rapids
Kilimanjaro Safaris
Na’vi River Journey
The Animation Experience at Conservation Station
Feathered Friends in Flight


----------



## scrappinginontario

Party.Of.4-NY>>>FL said:


> Question about the bolded:
> Does this mean that rides such as Peoplemover and Astro Orbiter will be included with Genie+?   Or did you mean to say that all rides that previously offered FP+ will be offered with Genie+?


No, you're correct that not all rides and attractions are included with Genie+.  In the MK things like 'Prince Charming's Regal Carousel', 'People Mover' and others are not included in Genie+.

Here's the *official list on the Disney website* of attractions available via Genie+ starting date Oct 19th.


----------



## Disturbia

Anyone see any app updates? I still see version 6.22


----------



## elevatorgeek

We may see something soon. With the exception of EEH at Epcot the last theme park just closed for the night.


----------



## Disturbia

MJJME said:


> Sorry for the confusion
> 
> No sorry.  You cannot modify or cancel an IAS selection.  This I am sure about.
> 
> I am not sure about Genie+ Selections, that was not brought up during our presentation


So you did attend a presentation.  Thanks for  clarifying some things in that case; Disney has certainly kept some things in the dark.  

I’m sure you can appreciate how confusing this is for all of us trying to imagine what this will be like vs seeing it in action.


----------



## nurseberta

Good Luck to all of you out there in genie+ land!!!


----------



## Disturbia

Like Molly says, any day at Disney is better than not at Disney.

Keep calm and carry on!!!  

You are the Magic!


----------



## moorish

MJJME said:


> Sorry for the confusion
> 
> No sorry.  You cannot modify or cancel an IAS selection.  This I am sure about.
> 
> I am not sure about Genie+ Selections, that was not brought up during our presentation


Thanks for the response!


----------



## Octoberbaby

Our trip isn't for another week, but can I add Genie+ to our tickets at midnight?


----------



## CBMom01

Turksmom said:


> I liked Rivers of Light. But that purple float. And Stitch's Great Escape


My kid loooooooved Stitch’s great escape


----------



## scrappinginontario

Octoberbaby said:


> Our trip isn't for another week, but can I add Genie+ to our tickets at midnight?


Possibly.  If you're adding them to every day of your ticket you may be able to add once Genie+ is live.  If you're adding to only select days I'm pretty confident that cannot be done until the actual day you're adding it for.

again, still a lot unknown even less than 2 hours before the start date of Genie!


----------



## katyringo

Octoberbaby said:


> Our trip isn't for another week, but can I add Genie+ to our tickets at midnight?


Remains to be seen.. but the wording they have made it sound like you would have to call..


----------



## Disturbia

time is moving so slow…


----------



## Bibbobboo2u

Sunelis said:


> Just want to wish good luck to all the Genie-pigs tomorrow. Please keep us posted.


I will try to provide some info tomorrow about HWS.  It may be limited because we probably won’t be able to figure out the “limits” if any with G+ until we have used it for the full day.  Alarms set and going to bed now - big day tomorrow!


----------



## Tom_E_D

elgerber said:


> We are at Epcot tomorrow. I wasn’t originally planning to buy + just the ILL. But I think I will just so I can see how it works so we won’t be figuring it all out at MK


In addition, you'll be acquiring the right to truthfully say "I used it on the very first day it was available." That has to be worth at least a mere $15.00.


----------



## katyringo

Me playing around with my plans..


----------



## scrappinginontario

As we anticipated, version 7 is out.  Just updating mine now.  So much for sleeping.


----------



## katyringo

ITS HERE!


----------



## katyringo

The my plans section is now gone but you go into genie and your days are highlighted.. click on them and there is your info.
Mods we might need seperate threads for free genie/App and  genie plus..


----------



## DavidNYC

scrappinginontario said:


> To clarify, I am not saying this won't happen, I'm just not willing to say, 'Disney said....' when I don't have any proof either on their website or, from guests who are using it live in the parks.   I am not a TA and have no insight other than the information that is available to all.
> 
> That's my hold up, not that your information re: 120 mins is incorrect. It's just too early for me to support you 100% as I personally don't have enough information.



And we've also seen several reports that the 120 minutes doesn't start ticking until the park opens (which would not be an illogical outcome).  I trust the 120 as that's been standard even in the days of old FP and not having that would screw up the system. But the point of 120 is so you don't have more than 2 hours in a park without being able to make a reservation.  We'll see tomorrow what the new reservation time is.  If I had to bet, I'd pick starts ticking at open.


----------



## scrappinginontario

katyringo said:


> The my plans section is now gone but you go into genie and your days are highlighted.. click on them and there is your info.
> Mods we might need seperate threads for free genie/App and  genie plus.. View attachment 614487


There is already one  pinned and is being worked on but it’s too soon to open so it is locked. As previously requested, please continue to use this thread until the new one is ready.


----------



## JETSDAD

I was trying to sleep...now I'm playing around with this silly thing.  Going to be a fun day at work tomorrow/today accomplishing nothing.


----------



## DavidNYC

JETSDAD said:


> I was trying to sleep...now I'm playing around with this silly thing.  Going to be a fun day at work tomorrow/today accomplishing nothing.



Same - got through the "planning your day" part but now just error messages at the point it's supposed to spit out stuff at you.  Not sure if it only works when the park is open but if so - they should probably make that more clear rather than just give you the standard error message.


----------



## scrappinginontario

I hear you!! Trying to sleep so that I’m awake enough to make a cohesive post tomorrow. We’ll see if sleep comes or if I’m up playing again at 2AM.


----------



## scrappinginontario

JETSDAD said:


> I was trying to sleep...now I'm playing around with this silly thing.  Going to be a fun day at work tomorrow/today accomplishing nothing.


Guessing they’re still rolling out the code.  There will be a lot of stuff happening in the background in a specific, synced order.

We’ve only just begun….


----------



## katyringo

Most of DIS is asleep but I'm a night owl and playing with the free genie part of the app and things ive found out. Again this is the FREE part of the app:

- you can put in your top pics for a park but it doesn't populate an itinerary or anything. It gives a message that in x amount of days Disney genie will be able to.. the amount of days is the amount of time before that day of your trip. This genie doesn't do that until the day of your trip. It's early in its release but I don't think this is a pre trip planning tool.

it doesn't add my after hours holiday ticket to my day..

It seems super user friendly.

im curious to see what goes down at 7am. I'm going to bed!


----------



## JETSDAD

My tip board won't load which I guess is common right now but it is working for some people.  Also get an error if I try to buy G+


----------



## Foreveraprincess17

I’m in.  Purchased our G+ for today.


----------



## JETSDAD

I'm not sure how to activate the free day from D23....I can't even pay if I want to right now because I get an error.  Guess I'll get some sleep...maybe....or I'll just keep clicking on my tip board until it works.


----------



## katyringo

Foreveraprincess17 said:


> I’m in.  Purchased our G+ for today.


Wooooo get excited!


----------



## MichelinMan

Just playing with the app now. First reaction is it is very slow.

Next, I don't like the way you have to wait until your park day to see what it is recommending for how to tour a park. I use the Touring Plans app, and one of the benefits of that is that you can play around with stuff in advance to see what the best times are to do stuff. For example, playing around with whether to rope drop or not. You don't want to leave that until the day you go.

Can't see me using the Disney Genie part of this over the Touring Plans app.


----------



## Bibbobboo2u

Quick notes- just puchased for today. Had to go into App Store to update app.  It opened and Genie info was available.  You can change park selections to see Genie standby and LL info for attractions in each park.  Attractions show if ILL$ or Genie+ and indicate to buy at 7am as it is only 2am now and not yet available.  Screen shot attached.When you buy G+, it gives you the option to use gift card, redemption card, or credit card.  Back to sleep now! (Edited for clarity)


----------



## larsonb74

I've updated MDE, stumped on where how to purchase Genie+.  When I choose to upgrade to it I'm taken to my AP tickets but nothing there to purchase.


----------



## fly girl

larsonb74 said:


> I've updated MDE, stumped on where how to purchase Genie+.  When I choose to upgrade to it I'm taken to my AP tickets but nothing there to purchase.



You’d think it would be easy to find, but it took a few minutes for me to find it as well.

Go to Tip Board, then hit on My Day. It will be there about 2/3rds of the way down the screen, purple banner.


----------



## cm8

larsonb74 said:


> I've updated MDE, stumped on where how to purchase Genie+.  When I choose to upgrade to it I'm taken to my AP tickets but nothing there to purchase.


Go back out and make sure your app is displaying the 50th emblem. I had the same issue the first time.


----------



## Welsh_Dragon

I think the tip board is only populated on the day. Is that correct?


----------



## larsonb74

Figured it out, only allows for today no future days or trips.  Not sure if this is for all ticket types or just AP.  So...needing to stay up past midnight or get up early on vacation each day of a trip.  Great design/functionality Mickey WDW.


----------



## itf

Looks a total shambles for our next year trip at the moment. This morning it couldn't see my park reservations, now it can, but claims I haven't got a ticket, even though the appropriate tickets are visible in other parts of the app. Oh well, I'll leave it alone for a few weeks while they iron out the kinks.


----------



## luv2cheer92

larsonb74 said:


> Figured it out, only allows for today no future days or trips.  Not sure if this is for all ticket types or just AP.  So...needing to stay up past midnight or get up early on vacation each day of a trip.  Great design/functionality Mickey WDW.
> 
> View attachment 614494


Yes, this was already known a while back. You can add it ahead of time to a vacation package, but it adds it to every day of your tickets. Otherwise you have to add it each day, day of, starting at midnight.


----------



## BridgetBordeaux

I called Tech Support on the 18th and they said you can purchase G+ at 3am for "day of"....not midnight as mentioned before.

I was was told it had something to do with dealing with the west coast.


----------



## Pyotr

Can anyone read the Legal Disclaimer? I don’t even know what language that is.


----------



## itf

It doesn't seem like there's a way - or I can't find one - you can add it to all 14 days of a UK Ultimate ticket in advance.


----------



## RoseGold

Pyotr said:


> Can anyone read the Legal Disclaimer? I don’t even know what language that is.



It’s latin.  That’s the standard placeholder text someone was supposed to replace HAHA!!


----------



## SirDuff

Pyotr said:


> View attachment 614496
> Can anyone read the Legal Disclaimer? I don’t even know what language that is.



It's "placeholder" language (actually Latin, I think).   It is usually used when you want to put a text box somewhere but don't yet know what you want to say.  It should not be seen on a final, published product.


----------



## boop0524

I’m just trying to modify dining since I’m up at this hour lol and I hate what they have done to the new layout. Having to click each day on mobile is beyond frustrating


----------



## Juventus

Mine iscrashing like crazy.  Where is the link for ILL$$?

Tip board won't load either.

Note:  I'm just fooling around with this from 1200 miles away but do have a park pass for today...


----------



## Bibbobboo2u

BridgetBordeaux said:


> I called Tech Support on the 18th and they said you can purchase G+ at 3am for "day of"....not midnight as mentioned before.
> 
> I was was told it had something to do with dealing with the west coast.


I purchased around 1:40 a.m.


----------



## masupo

Good luck today everyone!

May the Mouse be with you and may the Genie be ever in your favor


----------



## snikki

Bibbobboo2u said:


> Quick notes- just puchased for today. Had to go into App Store to update app.  It opened and Genie info was available.  You can change park selections to see Genie standby and LL info for attractions in each park.  Attractions show if ILL$ or Genie+ and indicate to buy at 7am as it is only 2am now and not yet available.  Screen shot attached.When you buy G+, it gives you the option to use gift card, redemption card, or credit card.  Back to sleep now! (Edited for clarity)View attachment 614491



So is LL at 7 am for everyone of just onsite ? I’m looking to TSMM.


----------



## Isabelle12345

snikki said:


> So is LL at 7 am for everyone of just onsite ? I’m looking to TSMM.


If that is the case it would be a game changer for on site privileges - especially if we can stack!
Interested to see how it goes, but I see the same thing as you!


----------



## JETSDAD

My tip board still won't work...I've tried reinstalling the app a couple of times but still nothing.


----------



## elgerber

snikki said:


> So is LL at 7 am for everyone of just onsite ? I’m looking to TSMM.


It does say on-site. I guess we will find out very soon.


----------



## wisblue

I entered information for the first day of our trip in November.  The app does recognize the 4 people in our party with valid tickets for that day.

I clicked on the link to add Genie+ for our party of 4, knowing that I couldn’t really do it in advance.

One thing that surprised me was a notice that I would be able to purchase Genie+ for guests that have the same admission type as me and that others with different types would have to make their own purchases. That could be a minor inconvenience because I have an AP, two of the members of our party that trip have regular 3 day tickets, and another has a Florida resident ticket. So, 2 or 3 of us will have to make the purchase each day instead of me just buying for all of us.

I also see that I can select our 8 priority attractions for that day, and can also make selections at a second park and indicate when we expect to be in that park. But, it will not provide an itinerary until the day of the visit.


----------



## GBRforWDW

Individual lightning lane purchase information is now available:


----------



## RedmonFamily

7DMT is going fast, already up to 11 am 7 minutes past 7 am. Interesting...

Edit: as you can pick your time idk if they are sold out but that is what the app is recommending


----------



## scrappinginontario

If someone purchases ILL$ for an attraction, can you please share if you’re able to purchase another ILL$ right away or if they’re locked?

Thanks!!


----------



## thptrek

My app says no valid park admissions, ugh


----------



## elgerber

it lets you book overlapping times.


----------



## wisblue

We thought you could select a time for the ILL selections. Is there a way to do that?


----------



## Brocktoon

RedmonFamily said:


> 7DMT is going fast, already up to 11 am 7 minutes past 7 am. Interesting...



Queue up the Lightning McQueen sound, "$$ Ka-Ching $$"


----------



## scrappinginontario

RedmonFamily said:


> 7DMT is going fast, already up to 11 am 7 minutes past 7 am. Interesting...


Do you have a park reservation for today? I’m  Trying to see this info without a reservation and cannot locate it.


----------



## elgerber

scrappinginontario said:


> If someone purchases ILL$ for an attraction, can you please share if you’re able to purchase another ILL$ right away or if they’re locked?
> 
> Thanks!!


Right away


----------



## elgerber

wisblue said:


> We thought you could select a time for the ILL selections. Is there a way to do that?


The rides for purchase? You can once you click on it.


----------



## Foreveraprincess17

I’m in!!  Hit plus sign for View Tip Board and my day.  Select Tip board at top.  Right underneath in small type is Change Park—select your park.  Attractions are listed.  Click on the ILLs for purchase and/or select G+.


----------



## RedmonFamily

scrappinginontario said:


> Do you have a park reservation for today? I’m  Trying to see this info without a reservation and cannot locate it.


I don't, it just appeared under the day. I do have an AP so that maybe part of the reason


----------



## Moms

Okay … this is all very, very new so I may (and probably am! ) missing something but I don’t think you can book overlapping times .  Don’t you have to use one before you book another … unless one is more than two hours ahead … which wouldn’t overlap.


----------



## minie_meese

I was able to get rise of the resistance at 9:50 this am. We have a 1 hour window. The other ILL attraction is the run away railroad. I am not going to buy it but I did go in, selected it and it would let me choose a time and let me get through to the payment screen.


----------



## RedmonFamily

Moms said:


> Okay … this is all very, very new so I may (and probably am! ) missing something but I don’t think you can book overlapping times .  Don’t you have to use one before you book another … unless one is more than two hours ahead … which wouldn’t overlap.


It was their ILL that overlap not Genie+ choices


----------



## elgerber

scrappinginontario said:


> Do you have a park reservation for today? I’m  Trying to see this info without a reservation and cannot locate it.


I have a reservation for Epcot but I can see time choices in all 4 parks. Maybe because I am onsite with a reservation?  
ROTR paid and SDD plus are going really fast.


----------



## Kaelorian

Are you able to select any time for normal G+ reservations or is it whatever time is next that is not full?


----------



## minie_meese

The app seems to be working really well. It has a lot of good information and I had no problem getting a selection made right at 7. I did not get Geni+, just Rise of the Resistance. I used the Disney WiFi. We are staying at the Beach Club


----------



## katyringo

elgerber said:


> I have a reservation for Epcot but I can see time choices in all 4 parks. Maybe because I am onsite with a reservation?
> ROTR paid and SDD plus are going really fast.



slinky dog is the latest one. At 5pm 25
Minutes after drop..


----------



## JETSDAD

I have G+ for free today and my tip board still won't work and I can't make any LL selections.  Off to a great start.


----------



## wisblue

elgerber said:


> The rides for purchase? You can once you click on it.



Yes. Thanks.

So, if you click on “Purchase” it opens up a screen with potential times?

My next question is going to be if I can purchase an IALL at a second park as long as I have a hopper ticket. For example, if I have a park reservation for MK, at 7AM could I make an IALL reservation for Ratatouille in the evening?


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

Bibbobboo2u said:


> Quick notes- just puchased for today. Had to go into App Store to update app.  It opened and Genie info was available.  You can change park selections to see Genie standby and LL info for attractions in each park.  Attractions show if ILL$ or Genie+ and indicate to buy at 7am as it is only 2am now and not yet available.  Screen shot attached.When you buy G+, it gives you the option to use gift card, redemption card, or credit card.  Back to sleep now! (Edited for clarity)View attachment 614491


So that’s a major change.  Off site can’t make the first Genie+ reservation until park open.  It was reported that it was just 7 am for ILL$


----------



## katyringo

If anyone is using it- does it tell
You a time you can make another selection?


----------



## RedmonFamily

Refresh seems to do something, I could only get PPF for 10:20, now I can get it for 9:30 again, I refresh and it changes to 10


----------



## elgerber

katyringo said:


> slinky dog is the latest one. At 5pm 25
> Minutes after drop..


It’s back to 3:35 now. And ROTR was mid afternoon on my options but is back to mid morning again.


----------



## MomEadon

New here, planning a Disney week in December with my husband and 3 young kids. Got everything purchased already so I have a question about Genie+ that I couldn’t really find a clear answer to reading back a few pages of your board here… so I’m sorry if there is already an answer buried somewhere here.

Can we purchase genie+ now for our December trip?


----------



## elgerber

katyringo said:


> If anyone is using it- does it tell
> You a time you can make another selection?


Mine does not


----------



## jimim

shawthorne44 said:


> Well, it is understandable that Disney doesn't tell us peon customers the complete facts because they want to change things later without documentation that it had been different.  But, employees could have been given a one page document with all the facts.   The CM's supposedly had training on this.   The problem is caused by management.



I wasn’t saying anything about us customers. We here as a community piece it together and that’s what makes dis great.
What I’m saying is most people in service industry jobs just go through the motions. They just want to get a pay check every other week or every week. How many times have you gone into a big box store and asked someone who works there where something is and they have no clue. I was just in Lowe’s. Paint section. They moved the acid. Asked a girl who was stocking the paint shelves. So she must know where the acid is. It’s her section. I asked. No clue. She was nice and all. But she didn’t even get up to even try and help me or find out. Just went in with her work. So I looked through the 3 isles. Found it eventually to its new home.


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

katyringo said:


> slinky dog is the latest one. At 5pm 25
> Minutes after drop..


Lol what a disaster this new system is.  So much for “they’re going to make sure people who buy Genie+ are able to get LL’s.”  Or “You’re not going to have to wake up at 7 am, every day, don’t worry.”


----------



## PaladinButters

Genie is telling me I can make dining reservations in 31 days for a trip 96 days out.  I'll take the bonus days!  Thanks, Genie!


----------



## GBRforWDW

MomEadon said:


> New here, planning a Disney week in December with my husband and 3 young kids. Got everything purchased already so I have a question about Genie+ that I couldn’t really find a clear answer to reading back a few pages of your board here… so I’m sorry if there is already an answer buried somewhere here.
> 
> Can we purchase genie+ now for our December trip?


Yes, it looks like you can.  You may have to update your package, but on the ticket selection page at the bottom, you have these options:

This is a sample 3 day ticket for 3 people I was looking at.


----------



## katyringo

You can add it to your entire trip now.


----------



## LittleStinkerbelle

When I opened MDE first thing this morning I got the screen to update the app for Genie, but I didn't do it right then. Now when I go back I don't get the screen and I went in the App Store and there's no update available  I'm not too tech savvy so maybe I'm missing something obvious, but how do I update? Thanks for any help.


----------



## itf

katyringo said:


> slinky dog is the latest one. At 5pm 25
> Minutes after drop..



This sounds like essentially a lockout on these rides for off-site guests who won't even be able to try and buy these as they'll be gone!


----------



## katyringo

elgerber said:


> It’s back to 3:35 now. And ROTR was mid afternoon on my options but is back to mid morning again.


 Rise is Trick because one you click on it you can choose your time because it's an individual lightening lane so it's harder to know.


----------



## MomEadon

Thank you. I think the rub on my end is that I already have park tickets so I’m not seeing an option for adding genie+ to the existing tickets. I think I have to call them to add it. 



GBRforWDW said:


> Yes, it looks like you can.  You may have to update your package, but on the ticket selection page at the bottom, you have these options:
> View attachment 614521
> This is a sample 3 day ticket I was looking at.


----------



## GBRforWDW

LittleStinkerbelle said:


> When I opened MDE first thing this morning I got the screen to update the app for Genie, but I didn't do it right then. Now when I go back I don't get the screen and I went in the App Store and there's no update available  I'm not too tech savvy so maybe I'm missing something obvious, but how do I update? Thanks for any help.


Click the 3 lines on the bottom right of the app and scroll to help and check your version. If it's 7, you're up to date.


----------



## Party.Of.4-NY>>>FL

LittleStinkerbelle said:


> When I opened MDE first thing this morning I got the screen to update the app for Genie, but I didn't do it right then. Now when I go back I don't get the screen and I went in the App Store and there's no update available  I'm not too tech savvy so maybe I'm missing something obvious, but how do I update? Thanks for any help.


Try going to the App Store.  Then go to the updates screen.  Swipe down to refresh then check to see if it’s there.


----------



## Garyjames220

What rides in genie plus has afternoon times already. If you want to try and stack some up


----------



## katyringo

At 630 am

latest time at MK is monster inc at 1pm

Epcot Test track 1245

Slinky dog said 5pm but now is 1:20

Nothing is moving fast at AK..


----------



## scrappinginontario

Those of us without a park reservation for today or an AP are much more limited in what we can see.


----------



## LittleStinkerbelle

GBRforWDW said:


> Click the 3 lines on the bottom right of the app and scroll to help and check your version. If it's 7, you're up to date.


Thanks.  It says Version 6.22


----------



## katyringo

itf said:


> This sounds like essentially a lockout on these rides for off-site guests who won't even be able to try and buy these as they'll be gone!


They can use genie + at 7am like everyone else they just can't book the Individual upgrades


----------



## GBRforWDW

MomEadon said:


> Thank you. I think the rub on my end is that I already have park tickets so I’m not seeing an option for adding genie+ to the existing tickets. I think I have to call them to add it.


Ah yes, if you bought tickets separately that would be done differently and yes, calling is probably the only way right now.  Please let us know if you're able to, I know @scrappinginontario is trying to get as many scenarios answered as possible.


----------



## OhDannyBoy

Just messing around with it but it looks like I can only select 12 guests at a time to plan? That's going to be a problem. I have a party of 16!!


----------



## LSUfan4444

RedmonFamily said:


> I don't, it just appeared under the day. I do have an AP so that maybe part of the reason


I have tickets and a resort linked for January but no AP and no reservation for today and I am able to view it as well


----------



## lorileahb

I can see genie plus and I can see my park tickets for later this week, but when I try to buy genie+ plus it tells me I don't have valid part tickets.


----------



## RedmonFamily

katyringo said:


> At 630 am
> 
> latest time at MK is monster inc at 1pm
> 
> Epcot Test track 1245
> 
> Slinky dog said 5pm but now is 1:20
> 
> Nothing is moving fast at AK..


Refresh, those times keep changing for me. Also I think monster Inc is just opening late


----------



## lily88

LittleStinkerbelle said:


> When I opened MDE first thing this morning I got the screen to update the app for Genie, but I didn't do it right then. Now when I go back I don't get the screen and I went in the App Store and there's no update available  I'm not too tech savvy so maybe I'm missing something obvious, but how do I update? Thanks for any help.



I was having the same issue. I removed the app and reinstalled it and once I opened the app the upgrade button worked.


----------



## champagne&disney

If you’re having issues with updating the app or generally it’s acting buggy, delete MDE and re-download it. It helps!


----------



## katyringo

RedmonFamily said:


> Refresh, those times keep changing for me. Also I think monster Inc is just opening late


  So interesting..


----------



## JETSDAD

Refreshing lives on.  The many hours spent working on my refreshing skills will not go to waste. Phew.


----------



## OhDannyBoy

lily88 said:


> I was having the same issue. I removed the app and reinstalled it and once I opened the app the upgrade button worked.


Same here. It prompted me to download Genie and redirected to the app store but there was no update option so I uninstalled MDE and reinstalled it. I had to go back to the app store to update but that did the trick.


----------



## Brocktoon

LittleStinkerbelle said:


> Thanks.  It says Version 6.22



For iOS, open up the App Store and click on the upper right icon for your account/profile.  You should be able to see updates available, and also 'pull down' on that screen to refresh and check for updates


----------



## itf

katyringo said:


> They can use genie + at 7am like everyone else they just can't book the Individual upgrades



But that's what I'm saying for ROTR etc will the slots not go before off-site people even get a chance?


----------



## LittleStinkerbelle

Party.Of.4-NY>>>FL said:


> Try going to the App Store.  Then go to the updates screen.  Swipe down to refresh then check to see if it’s there.


Ahh - thank you! That worked.  Yay! Really appreciate it


----------



## katyringo

itf said:


> But that's what I'm saying for ROTR etc will the slots not go before off-site people even get a chance?


Remains to be seen. Park opens in an hour and still looks like availability...


----------



## hayesdvc

So, I am WDW.  Had to go to front desk this morning.  System thought I had park reservation at both HS and MK ?!  It would not let me make time at either place till after 2PM (park hopping).  CM had to delete HS herself.
Unlike the old FP+ system:
I was under the impression you could select your time; it just gives you the next one.
Once booked, you can cancel, however, you cannot modify.


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

katyringo said:


> At 630 am
> 
> latest time at MK is monster inc at 1pm
> 
> Epcot Test track 1245
> 
> Slinky dog said 5pm but now is 1:20
> 
> Nothing is moving fast at AK..


Wait, are you saying the earliest ride is laugh floor at 1 pm?  Ok, this is definitely going to push me to cancel my upcoming disney world trip.  I was on the fence but this is going to do it for me. If all morning slots in MK go by 7:30 AM that is ludicrous.


----------



## katyringo

AnnaKristoff2013 said:


> Wait, are you saying the earliest ride is laugh floor at 1 pm?  Ok, this is definitely going to push me to cancel my upcoming disney world trip.  I was on the fence but this is going to do it for me. If all morning slots in MK go by 7:30 AM that is ludicrous.


 No. It's the latest return time. In theory this means that the passes for that ride are going the fastest.


----------



## lovethattink

AP with reservation for MK. I can see how to buy ILL, but how do you purchase G+?


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

katyringo said:


> No. It's the latest return time. In theory this means that the passes for that ride are going the fastest.


Oh, ok.


----------



## champagne&disney

AnnaKristoff2013 said:


> Wait, are you saying the earliest ride is laugh floor at 1 pm?  Ok, this is definitely going to push me to cancel my upcoming disney world trip.  I was on the fence but this is going to do it for me. If all morning slots in MK go by 7:30 AM that is ludicrous.


This is not the case. Other than Monsters Inc, everything is 10:30am or earlier right now. You don’t need to purchase Genie+ to use the tip board and see what’s available.


----------



## RedmonFamily

AnnaKristoff2013 said:


> Wait, are you saying the earliest ride is laugh floor at 1 pm?  Ok, this is definitely going to push me to cancel my upcoming disney world trip.  I was on the fence but this is going to do it for me. If all morning slots in MK go by 7:30 AM that is ludicrous.


Everything else is still at 9, it is just opening at 1. The genie + is not sold out. It showed 1 at 7am this morning


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

So has anyone who is staying offsite been able to book a Genie+ lightning lane?  Or do they have to wait till park open?


----------



## Bibbobboo2u

Available times keep changing.  I booked first LL at 7am for Slinky and got 10:55-11:55am return time.


----------



## CWTC

At BCV - have HS reservations.  bought genie+ for both of us, no issues and first LL we took was 9am for toy story (will likely ride stand by too) but wanted to get a sense of the Genie+.  We bought an ILL$ for ROTR (spouse did not want to rope drop again).  overall was easy to use, app seems clutterred because I don't want to see the suggestions: I just want to see our plans.  

One thing I haven't tried because I don't want to mess us up:  has anyone bought an ILL$ for a park they are going to hop to after 2pm? I was considering buying Remy just to see how it would work but then chickened out.


----------



## tinabina919

I think monsters is just opening late, there is plenty of availability at MK still.

It does feel very cluttered with this update. I am doing a split stay and can only see my plans for the first resort. I would like to see my whole week of plans like I used to.


----------



## LSUfan4444

Thoughts welcome...So if my wife and I both log into my MDX account at the same time but from separate devices...do you think she can try for the Remy Boarding Group at 7am while I work on Genie + and ILightening Lane selections for the day?

At least today, Remy boarding group was relatively easy to get at 7am but not sure I want to wait ten minutes to try.


----------



## katyringo

CWTC said:


> At BCV - have HS reservations.  bought genie+ for both of us, no issues and first LL we took was 9am for toy story (will likely ride stand by too) but wanted to get a sense of the Genie+.  We bought an ILL$ for ROTR (spouse did not want to rope drop again).  overall was easy to use, app seems clutterred because I don't want to see the suggestions: I just want to see our plans.
> 
> One thing I haven't tried because I don't want to mess us up:  has anyone bought an ILL$ for a park they are going to hop to after 2pm? I was considering buying Remy just to see how it would work but then chickened out.



from reports I think you are just fine to buy Remy!


----------



## LSUfan4444

> I was considering buying Remy just to see how it would work but then chickened out.


----------



## RedmonFamily

8 am and it is already showing 12:40 as next available for TT


----------



## EmilyGahr

Very confused. I have a 10 day park hopper plus ticket for January. I went to the "Change Ticket" option to add Genie+, and the total is only $79.89 before tax. This is obviously not $15 per day for 10 days... HELP!


----------



## KNovacovschi

Just in case people are looking at price point this is what it cost me to add to my April trip. This is for 1 person with 6 day park hopper and Genie +, does not include LL since those can only be purchased day of and since ticket prices fluctuate it may be a bit different others days.


----------



## GBRforWDW

lovethattink said:


> AP with reservation for MK. I can see how to buy ILL, but how do you purchase G+?


I found the purchase option on this link on the main My Day Genie page

On the next page click Get link, then choose who all you're buying for. 

I don't have a reservation, but hopefully that helps you get going!


----------



## Juventus

Android user after a couple reinstalls and with a park reservation for today:

Still can not load tip board, but can see recommendations for My Day.

When I try to purchase ILL it says 'can not load details'.

I am at home not near Disney today and am wondering if this will be normal moving forward.

Also, the suggestions start in this order: PotC, Splash then BTRR...the opposite of how I usually rope drop them.


----------



## Farro

CWTC said:


> At BCV - have HS reservations.  bought genie+ for both of us, no issues and first LL we took was 9am for toy story (will likely ride stand by too) but wanted to get a sense of the Genie+.  We bought an ILL$ for ROTR (spouse did not want to rope drop again).  overall was easy to use, app seems clutterred because I don't want to see the suggestions: I just want to see our plans.
> 
> One thing I haven't tried because I don't want to mess us up:  has anyone bought an ILL$ for a park they are going to hop to after 2pm? I was considering buying Remy just to see how it would work but then chickened out.



Were you able to choose your time for ROTR - supposedly you can pick what time you want to ride...


----------



## JillyMouse

I have a four night trip with my college aged daughter 10/20--10/24, with four park days.  Since we already chose to have park hoppers, I was able to add the Genie+ to our 4 day park hopper ticket for $127.80 extra.  Just added it to our resort package reservation and paid the additional amount.  Looking forward to trying out this new service, and get the most out of our four park days.


----------



## LSUfan4444

KNovacovschi said:


> Just in case people are looking at price point this is what it cost me to add to my April trip. This is for 1 person with 6 day park hopper and Genie +, does not include LL since those can only be purchased day of and since ticket prices fluctuate it may be a bit different others days.
> View attachment 614541


6 days x $15 day + tax = $187?

What am I missing?


----------



## Mome Rath

It shows I can't add G+ for my AP (trip in Dec), only on the day of, so there's that.


----------



## JETSDAD

Juventus said:


> Android user after a couple reinstalls and with a park reservation for today:
> 
> Still can not load tip board, but can see recommendations for My Day.
> 
> When I try to purchase ILL it says 'can not load details'.
> 
> I am at home not near Disney today and am wondering if this will be normal moving forward.
> 
> Also, the suggestions start in this order: PotC, Splash then BTRR...the opposite of how I usually rope drop them.


Same here for the tip board.  Mine suggested Under the Seas which I do enjoy but rope dropping that wouldn't be an ideal use of time first thing.


----------



## 720L

We are going to a park this Sunday.....how do we purchase lightning lane for Sunday?? Can't figure out


----------



## LSUfan4444

720L said:


> We are going to a park this Sunday.....how do we purchase lightning lane for Sunday?? Can't figure out


You can do it the morning of at 7 am if you are a resort guest or park open if you are not


----------



## lovethattink

GBRforWDW said:


> I found the purchase option on this link on the main My Day Genie pageView attachment 614540
> 
> On the next page click Get link, then choose who all you're buying for.
> 
> I don't have a reservation, but hopefully that helps you get going!



Thanks, found it. Super small on my phone.


----------



## GBRforWDW

720L said:


> We are going to a park this Sunday.....how do we purchase lightning lane for Sunday?? Can't figure out


Individual lightning lane can only be purchased day of.  Genie+ can be purchased ahead of time, but can't select rides until day of as well.


----------



## 720L

LSUfan4444 said:


> You can do it the morning of at 7 am if you are a resort guest or park open if you are not


So we have to first go through process of buying it, then we can choose our rides?


----------



## GBRforWDW

lovethattink said:


> Thanks, found it. Super small on my phone. View attachment 614545


Yes!  You'd think it stands out because it's purple, but really, it's easy to overlook. Lol. Have a great day!


----------



## LSUfan4444

720L said:


> So we have to first go through process of buying it, then we can choose our rides?


No...you see the time available and the cost and then you can buy them.


----------



## 720L

GBRforWDW said:


> Individual lightning lane can only be purchased day of.  Genie+ can be purchased ahead of time, but can't select rides until day of as well.


We are trying to purchase genie+. It's not working. We don't want to purchase individual rides. Some tickets on our account aren't activated yet, it's saying no valid admission for them.


----------



## 0FF TO NEVERLAND

Getting up 7:00am everyday of your " vacation "

What a great experience and way to completely stress out the experience and trip even more

Who needs sleep and sanity right?

For something everyone hates, there sure are ALOT of people buying it. Disney is right. We are the suckers ;/


----------



## Farro

Someone said they were able to add to their existing hoppers for this week- how??? It takes me to a page to buy regular tickets...


----------



## LSUfan4444

720L said:


> We are trying to purchase genie+. It's not working.


You would have to add it to your existing tickets...as in, change your ticket type (from a Park Hopper to a Park Hopper with Genie+ for example). You cannot just "add it" for the future. You can only add it for the day of.

the pricing examples I have seen today have been super confusing though...one I saw was way too low and another was way too high.


----------



## figmentfinesse

Jump on that glitch!!!


EmilyGahr said:


> Very confused. I have a 10 day park hopper plus ticket for January. I went to the "Change Ticket" option to add Genie+, and the total is only $79.89 before tax. This is obviously not $15 per day for 10 days... HELP!
> View attachment 614539


----------



## LSUfan4444

0FF TO NEVERLAND said:


> Getting up 7:00am everyday of your " vacation "
> 
> What a great experience and way to completely stress out the experience and trip even more
> 
> Who needs sleep and sanity right?
> 
> For something everyone hates, there sure are ALOT of people buying it. Disney is right. We are the suckers ;/


7 am would be sleeping in...want me to get stressed out, keep me in bed until 8am


----------



## Bcarrier1983

LSUfan4444 said:


> 6 days x $15 day + tax = $187?
> 
> What am I missing?


 That's for Park Hopper + Genie+, if you look at Base Ticket+Genie+ it's +95.85 per ticket (guessing 15 per day +tax)


----------



## PaladinButters

itf said:


> But that's what I'm saying for ROTR etc will the slots not go before off-site people even get a chance?



No, I really don't think so.  But it would be amazing for Disney to push on-site if that's the narrative that gets out there so I'm sure there's some dynamic availability they could use to make that happen when they feel like it.


----------



## LSUfan4444

Bcarrier1983 said:


> That's for Park Hopper + Genie+, if you look at Base Ticket+Genie+ it's +95.85 per ticket (guessing 15 per day +tax)


So you're saying they added the hopper too not just added genie + to an existing Hopper ticket?


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

Farro said:


> Someone said they were able to add to their existing hoppers for this week- how??? It takes me to a page to buy regular tickets...


Same. I tried adding it to my tickets for Thanksgiving week but it doesn't recognize my future tickets.  Guess I can't add it until the day of.  Annoying.


----------



## 720L

We have one day tickets on our account, assigned to our names, but they aren't listed as eligible for buying Genie+


----------



## EmilyGahr

figmentfinesse said:


> Jump on that glitch!!!


Just purchased for me and my husband... before tax it was $159 to add to both of our 10 day park hopper plus tickets. Worked out to $7.95 per person per day..... 
Certainly must be a glitch, but I'm not complaining!!


----------



## MJJME

Can someone please clarify....It has been asked several times but nobody has answered as far as i can tell...

I have 2 questions

For resort guests:

1) When you went to purchase IAS (ROTR or MMRR........SDMT or SPace Mtn...........FOP or Everest..........Frozen or Rat)...............Where you able to choose your return time?

2) Could you overlap time if you purchased both?


----------



## LSUfan4444

720L said:


> We have one day tickets on our account, assigned to our names, but they aren't listed as eligible for buying Genie+


You have to change your ticket type unless that ticket and park reservation is for today.


----------



## melk

I don’t think I’ve seen yet how much it is to buy a lightning lane pass for ROTR. Does anybody know how much it is? Thx


----------



## kiddo76

Just checked ILL fir ROTR. Earliest time is 6:05.

We are staying offsite next week with our main objective to ride ROTR. When we booked, we had an equal chance to get a free BG as on-site guests did. The way it's looking so far, I might not even be able to pay for it.


----------



## Farro

ENJDisneyFan said:


> Same. I tried adding it to my tickets for Thanksgiving week but it doesn't recognize my future tickets.  Guess I can't add it until the day of.  Annoying.



So you have to go to change reservation and under there you can change tickets and add it.

We decided we will just purchase the day of since I know we won't want it for all our days! 

Seems easy enough to do in the morning, if you have park reservations.


----------



## Farro

melk said:


> I don’t think I’ve seen yet how much it is to buy a lightning lane pass for ROTR. Does anybody know how much it is? Thx



$15


----------



## AllyGirl_79

Just wanted to add - if it hasn’t been posted yet … I have SDD booked for 12:45. I tried clicking on another option, TSMM, just to see what it looks like. It tells me I’m not eligible. But if you click on “edit” to see why you’re not eligible, it notes that everyone in my party is able to get our next LL at 11:00am. That looks like two hours past opening and lends itself to the 2 hour booking theory.

However, im still in my pajamas at Boardwalk, so the odds of me getting to DHS at 9 are very slim. Wondering if it will change based on when I go through the turnstiles?


----------



## 720L

LSUfan4444 said:


> You have to change your ticket type unless that ticket and park reservation is for today.


Thanks, that worked. If it wasn't for the disboards, I'd have a problem.


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

Is there anyone staying offsite who was able to book a Genie+ LL before park open today?  This is a critical detail we still seem to be missing.


----------



## BroadwayHermione5

AllyGirl_79 said:


> Just wanted to add - if it hasn’t been posted yet … I have SDD booked for 12:45. I tried clicking on another option, TSMM, just to see what it looks like. It tells me I’m not eligible. But if you click on “edit” to see why you’re not eligible, it notes that everyone in my party is able to get our next LL at 11:00am. That looks like two hours past opening and lends itself to the 2 hour booking theory.
> 
> However, im still in my pajamas at Boardwalk, so the odds of me getting to DHS at 9 are very slim. Wondering if it will change based on when I go through the turnstiles?


So just like fast pass you can ride whatever else you want but can’t book another ride during that time you have slinky dog dash?


----------



## kiddo76

kiddo76 said:


> Just checked ILL fir ROTR. Earliest time is 6:05.
> 
> We are staying offsite next week with our main objective to ride ROTR. When we booked, we had an equal chance to get a free BG as on-site guests did. The way it's looking so far, I might not even be able to pay for it.


Now the time is at 2:45???


----------



## Avery&Todd

So I'm having an issue with mine....surprise....

But we arrive on Nov 10th, DH and I have APs that we'll be activating when we arrive as our currents ones have expired..

On the first 2 days of our trip, I get this message when I try to add Genie + saying we can't add it

Then for the last 2 days it tells me everyone has to have the same type of ticket..

And im trying to but Genie + here...

Perhaps I have to wait???


----------



## Farro

Anyone who *purchased *a ride - Rise, Rat, etc., - please let us know, were you able to choose a time or was it only assigned?

Thank you!!!


----------



## MJJME

AnnaKristoff2013 said:


> Is there anyone staying offsite who was able to book a Genie+ LL before park open today?  This is a critical detail we still seem to be missing.



Offsite can book Genie+ at 7am

Offsite cannot book IAS until park opening


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

MJJME said:


> Offsite can book Genie+ at 7am
> 
> Offsite cannot book IAS until park opening


Are you saying this because you confirmed it?  Because the language on the app loading screen indicated otherwise.  I recognize this is what was reported prior to launch.  But we don’t have confirmation yet as near as i can tell.


----------



## kiddo76

kiddo76 said:


> Now the time is at 2:45???


And now 6:20!!!


----------



## MJJME

Farro said:


> Anyone who *purchased *a ride - Rise, Rat, etc., - please let us know, were you able to choose a time or was it only assigned?
> 
> Thank you!!!


Can someone please answer this?


----------



## Airb330

I’m very curious to see ROTR standby wait times today. IMO they’ve been very reasonable (even 10-1 through 10-7) since the switchover.


----------



## CynBeth

MomEadon said:


> New here, planning a Disney week in December with my husband and 3 young kids. Got everything purchased already so I have a question about Genie+ that I couldn’t really find a clear answer to reading back a few pages of your board here… so I’m sorry if there is already an answer buried somewhere here.
> 
> Can we purchase genie+ now for our December trip?



We are going in November and one of my family members called and got it added to all 3 of our tickets got through very quickly I was stunned.


----------



## 720L

So if your first lightning lane is 6pm, we can't get another one until after you used that one??


----------



## thptrek

At the park and when trying to book a ride it says we are ineligible cause we don’t have theme park reservations. Ugh. Off to Guest services


----------



## BroadwayHermione5

Airb330 said:


> I’m very curious to see ROTR standby wait times today. IMO they’ve been very reasonable (even 10-1 through 10-7) since the switchover.


This is what I’m curious to see as well. And I’ll throw in wanting to see the times for MMRR, FoP, 7D, and Whatever Epcot rides (I forget what they are right now)


----------



## MJJME

AnnaKristoff2013 said:


> Are you saying this because you confirmed it?  Because the language on the app loading screen indicated otherwise.  I recognize this is what was reported prior to launch.  But we don’t have confirmation yet as near as i can tell.


I did not confirm......

Can someone confirm this?


----------



## Farro

720L said:


> So if your first lightning lane is 6pm, we can't get another one until after you used that one??



No. It's every 120 minutes from park open or until you "tap" into a ride.

So if your first reservation is at 6pm and your park opens at 9am, you can make your second reservation at 11am and so on....


----------



## MJJME

720L said:


> So if your first lightning lane is 6pm, we can't get another one until after you used that one??


No......you can book another one 2 hours after you booked your first one (or park opening)


----------



## shawthorne44

Had Park Hopper tickets bought from a 3rd party discounter, and linked to MDE.   On my desktop, I was able to modify the tickets and add G+.   After tax the price was $479 which is 3 people, 10-days.   It didn't crash.


----------



## katyringo

0FF TO NEVERLAND said:


> Getting up 7:00am everyday of your " vacation "
> 
> What a great experience and way to completely stress out the experience and trip even more
> 
> Who needs sleep and sanity right?
> 
> For something everyone hates, there sure are ALOT of people buying it. Disney is right. We are the suckers ;/



not everyone hates it. I do not hate it. So far I like it.


----------



## DoleWhipping

If anyone is having trouble purchasing genie + for a future trip and its saying you do not have tickets, at the top under my day and it shows the date, change the date to the day your tickets begin and you can purchase.


----------



## AllyGirl_79

BroadwayHermione5 said:


> So just like fast pass you can ride whatever else you want but can’t book another ride during that time you have slinky dog dash?



No - sorry. Because I booked a LL selection with Genie + , I can’t book a second one right now. Which I knew, it says you can only have one a at a time. However, looks like I can reserve another Genie + reservation before my ride time — ride time at 12:45, next option to book a reservation at 11am. So if you have a late reservation selection, it does seem to be the case that you don’t have to wait to ride before you reserve another, ie it doesn’t tie up the whole day.

Whether my next selection can overlap SDD, I don’t yet know.


----------



## BroadwayHermione5

AllyGirl_79 said:


> No - sorry. Because I booked a LL selection with Genie + , I can’t book a second one right now. Which I knew, it says you can only have one a at a time. However, looks like I can reserve another Genie + reservation before my ride time — ride time at 12:45, next option to book a reservation at 11am. So if you have a late reservation selection, it does seem to be the case that you don’t have to wait to ride before you reserve another, ie it doesn’t tie up the whole day.
> 
> Whether my next selection can overlap SDD, I don’t yet know.


Ahhhh ok.  Keep us posted on the SDD situation.


----------



## Farro

MJJME said:


> Can someone please clarify....It has been asked several times but nobody has answered as far as i can tell...
> 
> For resort guests:
> 
> 1) When you went to purchase IAS (ROTR or MMRR........SDMT or SPace Mtn...........FOP or Everest..........Frozen or Rat)...............Where you able to choose your return time?



Maybe no one on here has bought one yet...or they are ignoring out pleas!   

I'll find out tomorrow morning when I attempt to purchase Rat from our home airport!


----------



## LSUfan4444

melk said:


> I don’t think I’ve seen yet how much it is to buy a lightning lane pass for ROTR. Does anybody know how much it is? Thx


$15


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

melk said:


> I don’t think I’ve seen yet how much it is to buy a lightning lane pass for ROTR. Does anybody know how much it is? Thx


From Disney Food Blog:


----------



## LSUfan4444

AnnaKristoff2013 said:


> Is there anyone staying offsite who was able to book a Genie+ LL before park open today?  This is a critical detail we still seem to be missing.


Not that I have seen but they should not have been able to anyway. Their selections should start at park opening


----------



## nurseberta

MomEadon said:


> New here, planning a Disney week in December with my husband and 3 young kids. Got everything purchased already so I have a question about Genie+ that I couldn’t really find a clear answer to reading back a few pages of your board here… so I’m sorry if there is already an answer buried somewhere here.
> 
> Can we purchase genie+ now for our December trip?




Yes you can! I just did this for our trip in January. 
Go into your plans. Under your ticket purchased click "change" Your vacation details are highlighted and you scroll down and there are all the ticket options with your choices, you simply choose your new ticket. For me, it was switching from park hopper to "park hopper with genie +"
Click a few times to verify the vacation package and press purchase. 
the app doesn't look any different but it does show my genie + purchase when I look at my plans from the computer


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

LSUfan4444 said:


> Not that I have seen but they should not have been able to anyway. Their selections should start at park opening


That is not what was reported prior to launch. Prior to launch it was reported IA$ was park opening for offsite, but Genie+ was at 7 am.


----------



## LSUfan4444

BroadwayHermione5 said:


> This is what I’m curious to see as well. And I’ll throw in wanting to see the times for MMRR, FoP, 7D, and Whatever Epcot rides (I forget what they are right now)


Would largely depend how many people buy ILLs. Every person let through that line would slow down standby so the more than purchase it, the longer wait times will be.


----------



## Wood Nymph

Farro said:


> Maybe no one on here has bought one yet...or they are ignoring out pleas!
> 
> I'll find out tomorrow morning when I attempt to purchase Rat from our home airport!


If you have an Epcot reservation for tomorrow, then you would be able to get a boarding group from your home airport. I was able to get one from home this morning at Chicago time 6:38am. Boarding groups were available for awhile. The Genie will tell you if a boarding group for Remy is available. You might not have to buy one.


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

Wood Nymph said:


> If you have an Epcot reservation for tomorrow, then you would be able to get a boarding group from your home airport. I was able to get one from home this morning at Chicago time 6:38am. Boarding groups were available for awhile. The Genie will tell you if a boarding group for Remy is available. You might not have to buy one.


Yeah but boarding groups aren’t equal to ILL$.  We don’t know how long the line will bre for a boarding group now that ILL$ is active.  For all we know a boarding group just puts you into a 2 or 3 hour line.


----------



## Farro

Wood Nymph said:


> If you have an Epcot reservation for tomorrow, then you would be able to get a boarding group from your home airport. I was able to get one from home this morning at Chicago time 6:38am. Boarding groups were available for awhile. The Genie will tell you if a boarding group for Remy is available. You might not have to buy one.



We won't be getting to Epcot until after 4 though, so I would be out of luck if I got an earlier Boarding Group. Otherwise that is exactly what we would do!


----------



## DoleWhipping

ILL$ for rise is now back at 10:30


----------



## MJJME

DoleWhipping said:


> ILL$ for rise is now back at 10:30





DoleWhipping said:


> ILL$ for rise is now back at 10:30


Can you please answer.......

Can you choose your return time?


----------



## LSUfan4444

MJJME said:


> Can someone please clarify....It has been asked several times but nobody has answered as far as i can tell...
> 
> For resort guests:
> 
> 1) When you went to purchase IAS (ROTR or MMRR........SDMT or SPace Mtn...........FOP or Everest..........Frozen or Rat)...............Where you able to choose your return time?


When it lists the price it has the available return window. That time has changed throughout the morning so you either buy that window or not. I have not seen anyone buy a window and change that time after purchasing it.

Like right now, the ILLL window for Rise of the Resistance starts at 6:40 pm and costs $15. You cannot buy it for $15 and then chose the time you want to return.


----------



## elgerber

MJJME said:


> Can someone please clarify....It has been asked several times but nobody has answered as far as i can tell...
> 
> For resort guests:
> 
> 1) When you went to purchase IAS (ROTR or MMRR........SDMT or SPace Mtn...........FOP or Everest..........Frozen or Rat)...............Where you able to choose your return time?


Yes you are. And yes you can book the 2nd as soon as you book the first. And yes they can overlap.


----------



## zebrastreyepz

Feedback: I was able to easily update the app and add Genie+ to our spring package. It added an extra $191.70 for two people for 6 park days. I did it all through the app.


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

DoleWhipping said:


> ILL$ for rise is now back at 10:30


Interesting...it seems to be all over the place.  Is it showing a bunch of times for you to select?  Since ILL$ aren't able to be cancelled, it's weird that the times would be fluctuating like that.


----------



## snikki

AnnaKristoff2013 said:


> That is not what was reported prior to launch. Prior to launch it was reported IA$ was park opening for offsite, but Genie+ was at 7 am.



At the very very beginning it was reported that it would be park opening for ILL and G+  for off site. Then a few days later it switched to ILL was park opening but G+ would be 7 am for off site.

Has it been confirmed how it’s working for offsite?


----------



## Brocktoon

MJJME said:


> Can you please answer.......
> 
> Can you choose your return time?



I'm hearing 2nd hand from somebody down at WDW now that you cannot choose your return time.  You can only purchase the time offered, and keep refreshing to see if it changes.  Again that's 2nd hand info though


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

LSUfan4444 said:


> When it lists the price it has the available return window. That time has changed throughout the morning so you either buy that window or not. *I have not seen anyone buy a window and change that time after purchasing it.*


Based on what Disney has announced, ILL$ passes are not able to be updated or cancelled.


----------



## elgerber

Brocktoon said:


> I'm hearing 2nd hand from somebody down at WDW now that you cannot choose your return time.  You can only purchase the time offered, and keep refreshing to see if it changes.  Again that's 2nd hand info though


This is not true. I had a whole days worth of times to choose from for Remy this morning


----------



## LSUfan4444

\


ENJDisneyFan said:


> Is it showing a bunch of times for you to select?  Since ILL$ aren't able to be cancelled, it's weird that the times would be fluctuating like that.



No...it shows you the available window for sale at that time


----------



## rmclain73

MJJME said:


> Can you please answer.......
> 
> Can you choose your return time?



In another forum I have been reading it appears you CANNOT choose the time.  It was reported that you could prior, but people who have purchased ROTR were just given a time similar to genie+.


----------



## snikki

elgerber said:


> it lets you book overlapping times.
> View attachment 614513



Did you get to pick the times?


----------



## MJJME

elgerber said:


> Yes you are. And yes you can book the 2nd as soon as you book the first. And yes they can overlap.


Thank you very much!!!!!  What did you book and what times were available for return?


----------



## zebrastreyepz

On today's Tip Board, the latest return time is 1:40PM for 7DMT with a $10 purchase. Laugh Floor has a 1:10PM return time. Everything else is in the morning. 

Space Mountain has a window open at 9:05AM for $7 or a 20 minute wait.


----------



## elgerber

LSUfan4444 said:


> \
> 
> 
> No...it shows you the available window for sale at that time





rmclain73 said:


> In another forum I have been reading it appears you CANNOT choose the time.  It was reported that you could prior, but people who have purchased ROTR were just given a time similar to genie+.


Again not true. I paid for two ILL this morning and once you choose the ride it gives you open times all day. I could have booked all the way to 9pm


----------



## Farro

LSUfan4444 said:


> When it lists the price it has the available return window. That time has changed throughout the morning so you either buy that window or not. I have not seen anyone buy a window and change that time after purchasing it.
> 
> Like right now, the ILLL window for Rise of the Resistance starts at 6:40 pm and costs $15. You cannot buy it for $15 and then chose the time you want to return.





elgerber said:


> Yes you are. And yes you can book the 2nd as soon as you book the first. And yes they can overlap.



So these answers are the exact opposite. 

Did one of you purchase and then was able to pick a time?


----------



## Brocktoon

elgerber said:


> This is not true. I had a whole days worth of times to choose from for Remy this morning



I'm messaging with a friend who is freaking out saying that she is only being offered one time to purchase for RoTR.  But it keeps jumping around if she refreshes.  Does that mean it's almost sold out if there is not a selection of purchase times?

EDIT:  Could it vary by attraction of whether a choice of return time is offered?


----------



## elgerber

MJJME said:


> Thank you very much!!!!!  What did you book and what times were available for return?



there were times all day long. Park open to 9pm


----------



## DoleWhipping

ENJDisneyFan said:


> Interesting...it seems to be all over the place.  Is it showing a bunch of times for you to select?  Since ILL$ aren't able to be cancelled, it's weird that the times would be fluctuating like that.



I don't have tickets for today so I can only see one time at a time.


----------



## LSUfan4444

Farro said:


> So these answers are the exact opposite.
> 
> Did one of you purchase and then was able to pick a time?


Let me rephrase...it shows you the first available time window you can purchase. You cannot just buy the ILL and choose when you want to go you have to choose a window they offer you and you will at least see the first available window.

Bad wording on my part


----------



## elgerber

Farro said:


> So these answers are the exact opposite.
> 
> Did one of you purchase and then was able to pick a time?


You click on the attraction then you are given a bunch of times to choose from. Then when you select a time you purchase it. 


Brocktoon said:


> I'm messaging with a friend who is freaking out saying that she is only being offered one time to purchase for RoTR.  But it keeps jumping around if she refreshes.  Does that mean it's almost sold out if there is not a selection of purchase times?


Have her click on Rise, the available times will then show.


----------



## wisblue

elgerber said:


> Again not true. I paid for two ILL this morning and once you choose the ride it gives you open times all day. I could have booked all the way to 9pm



Just to be clear because there seems to be a lot of confusion about this.

Do you have to hit the “purchase” button to see the list of available times?

If so, does the purchase only become complete when you pick a time and confirm the purchase?

I wouldn’t want to commit to a purchase before I knew that a convenient time was available.


----------



## DoleWhipping

MJJME said:


> Can you please answer.......
> 
> Can you choose your return time?


I can only see 1 available window at a time since I do not have park tickets for today, you can click on the time but I'm not sure what pops up on the next screen if you have a park ticket.


----------



## BeBopaSaurus

Off topic, are standby wait times only viewable in Genie Tip Board now? My wait times have disappeared from the map.


----------



## MomEadon

Oh my. Thank you for this. Classic “why didn’t I think of that” scenarios.  purchased and done.
THANK YOU!



nurseberta said:


> Yes you can! I just did this for our trip in January.
> Go into your plans. Under your ticket purchased click "change" Your vacation details are highlighted and you scroll down and there are all the ticket options with your choices, you simply choose your new ticket. For me, it was switching from park hopper to "park hopper with genie +"
> Click a few times to verify the vacation package and press purchase.
> the app doesn't look any different but it does show my genie + purchase when I look at my plans from the computer


----------



## BridgetR3

Pyotr said:


> View attachment 614496
> Can anyone read the Legal Disclaimer? I don’t even know what language that is.




EDITED TO ADD - I was sleeping.  You guys were way faster than me in answering.  rofl.....

I believe that is Latin and is a placeholder in their app for if they put a disclaimer there.  Crazy that they didn't change it or delete it.  You get those often with a pre-made base website or app but typically you would put your own information in that spot.


----------



## MJJME

DoleWhipping said:


> I can only see 1 available window at a time since I do not have park tickets for today, you can click on the time but I'm not sure what pops up on the next screen if you have a park ticket.


you have to have a ticket and park ressie and then select "Purchase ILL" to see all available return times


----------



## DoleWhipping

DoleWhipping said:


> I can only see 1 available window at a time since I do not have park tickets for today, you can click on the time but I'm not sure what pops up on the next screen if you have a park ticket.


 now its showing 3:05


----------



## SealedSeven

elgerber said:


> You click on the attraction then you are given a bunch of times to choose from. Then when you select a time you purchase it.
> 
> Have her click on Rise, the available times will then show.



For normal Lightning Lane, is it the same or is that whatever is showing, you have to select?


----------



## Disturbia

ENJDisneyFan said:


> Interesting...it seems to be all over the place.  Is it showing a bunch of times for you to select?  Since ILL$ aren't able to be cancelled, it's weird that the times would be fluctuating like that.


It seems like it’s adjusting according to your park plans/ADRs?


----------



## meremac

So at 7am, can ILL$ purchases only be made at the park you have a reservation for, or can you split them between parks? I know you can only make a Genie+ reservation for the park you're going to in the morning, but is ILL$ different?


----------



## figmentfinesse

BeBopaSaurus said:


> Off topic, are standby wait times only viewable in Genie Tip Board now? My wait times have disappeared from the map. ☹


That would make me so sad if it were true. I love checking the map for wait times, even more when I’m at home dreaming of my next trip!!


----------



## FlipHipster

wow. 8:50AM on a Tuesday morning and the next available time for SDD is 5:30PM already , MFSM 3:!0PM. So much for "nobody is going to buy it" 

ETA: in the time it took me to type this the NAT for SDD jumped to 6:20PM at this rate SDD will be sold out before park opens. Weekends and holidays are going to be as hard to get as the 7:00AM BG.


----------



## Disturbia

BeBopaSaurus said:


> Off topic, are standby wait times only viewable in Genie Tip Board now? My wait times have disappeared from the map. ☹


I loved looking at wait times; I guess the app now shows me what’s best


----------



## Sunelis

BeBopaSaurus said:


> Off topic, are standby wait times only viewable in Genie Tip Board now? My wait times have disappeared from the map. ☹


I can see the wait time on the map without any issues.


----------



## Leight19

Disturbia said:


> It seems like it’s adjusting according to your park plans/ADRs?


I was wondering if it’s designed to work this way for ILL$ to balance inventory more across the day? I think would be harder to manage if fast pass sold out for morning and none at night. I’d also imagine most people would book earlier rather then later so maybe they stagger release of inventory so they balance bookings across the day?


----------



## snikki

Touring plans app is the best for wait times. We never used MDE for that.


----------



## BroadwayHermione5

LSUfan4444 said:


> Would largely depend how many people buy ILLs. Every person let through that line would slow down standby so the more than purchase it, the longer wait times will be.


Which is honestly what scares me. At both Disney and Universal on our trip last month, standby if it was listed at 25 minutes it was more like 10. There are only like two rides I would lightning lane. Everything else is rather just wait.

I will say I like the concept of the Genie and how it can help you out. And everywhere else has pay to play so I understand that. But after experiencing no fastpass, I’m just anxious about this.


----------



## Disturbia

Does someone have an ADR.  Is it trying to give LLIA$ away from it?


----------



## champagne&disney

FlipHipster said:


> wow. 8:50AM on a Tuesday morning and the next available time for SDD is 5:30PM already , MFSM 3:!0PM. So much for "nobody is going to buy it"
> 
> ETA: in the time it took me to type this the NAT for SDD jumped to 6:20PM at this rate SDD will be sold out before park opens. Weekends and holidays are going to crazy


Remember D23 Gold members got it for free today so not sure it's a fair comparison quite yet. But I do think this is going to be wildly popular and I think SDD is going to be the hottest non-ILL ride to snag.


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

Anyone staying offsite who can report their experience yet?  Able to book Genie+ at 7 am, or locked out until park open?


----------



## boilermakeric

I was watching Rise times right as it hit 9:00 EST.... what previously was only 7PM+ availability immediately opened a bunch of other spots.  Since I was MK reservation, had multiple time slots available from 2PM onwards, and the Tip Board was showing items as early as noon.  Interesting that they apparently are dumping fresh time slots for the off-site start window.


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

boilermakeric said:


> I was watching Rise times right as it hit 9:00 EST.... what previously was only 7PM+ availability immediately opened a bunch of other spots.  Since I was MK reservation, had multiple time slots available from 2PM onwards, and the Tip Board was showing items as early as noon.  Interesting that they apparently are dumping fresh time slots for the off-site start window.


Lol. So basically they’re forcing onsite people to wake up at 7 am to help manage website/app load but there’s no real benefit to staying onsite?


----------



## FlipHipster

champagne&disney said:


> Remember D23 Gold members got it for free today so not sure it's a fair comparison quite yet. But I do think this is going to be wildly popular and I think SDD is going to be the hottest non-ILL ride to snag.



Good point, but I agree with you I think it is going to sell. 

A lot of people seem confused about "free" FP+. FP+ was only free in the sense that gmail is free. FP+ was a transitional program, WDW gave us "free" FP+ so they could collect data with the primary goal always being paid FP.  With 8+years of data they know exactly what people want and how much to charge for it.


----------



## Disturbia

boilermakeric said:


> I was watching Rise times right as it hit 9:00 EST.... what previously was only 7PM+ availability immediately opened a bunch of other spots.  Since I was MK reservation, had multiple time slots available from 2PM onwards, and the Tip Board was showing items as early as noon.  Interesting that they apparently are dumping fresh time slots for the off-site start window.


I think that’s why they held back some ADRs and kept changing park hours.  Would be interesting to see if Genie can get you into CRT or Oga’s


----------



## RamieGee

Sorry if someone’s already said this but, it’s 9:05 and the next Slinky Dog is already 6:25pm.


----------



## boilermakeric

Pretty much!  Just confirmed 7DMT did the same thing... widespread ILL$ timeslots available again starting as soon as 9:15 EST


----------



## Disturbia

RamieGee said:


> Sorry if someone’s already said this but, it’s 9:05 and the next Slinky Dog is already 6:25pm.
> View attachment 614559


Do you have any other plans like ADRs/Lightsaber etc


----------



## BroadwayHermione5

RamieGee said:


> Sorry if someone’s already said this but, it’s 9:05 and the next Slinky Dog is already 6:25pm.
> View attachment 614559


But the standby is at 45 which is shocking! Usually never seen it below 60


----------



## Brocktoon

elgerber said:


> You click on the attraction then you are given a bunch of times to choose from. Then when you select a time you purchase it.
> 
> Have her click on Rise, the available times will then show.



I heard back from my friend currently at HS ... she confirmed that after selecting RotR she was given a choice of return windows to purchase.  I think they were for later in the day, but there was a choice


----------



## lovethattink

AnnaKristoff2013 said:


> Is there anyone staying offsite who was able to book a Genie+ LL before park open today?  This is a critical detail we still seem to be missing.





AnnaKristoff2013 said:


> Anyone staying offsite who can report their experience yet?  Able to book Genie+ at 7 am, or locked out until park open?



Local AP, I could choose at 7am.


----------



## BeBopaSaurus

RamieGee said:


> Sorry if someone’s already said this but, it’s 9:05 and the next Slinky Dog is already 6:25pm.
> View attachment 614559


But look at that standby time for 9:05!


----------



## MJJME

lovethattink said:


> Local AP, I could choose at 7am.


Has to be a Disney IT glitch.........If i had to guess, this will be corrected y tomorrow


----------



## Leight19

BroadwayHermione5 said:


> But the standby is at 45 which is shocking! Usually never seen it below 60


I’m interested if the wait time is actually lower  or estimate just more accurate. Anyone who can report on posted vs actual wait time today would be interesting.

edit to add this also could be result if genie+ actually manages crowds as expected and lower because people who normally rope drop it are on another ride via LL


----------



## BeBopaSaurus

BeBopaSaurus said:


> Off topic, are standby wait times only viewable in Genie Tip Board now? My wait times have disappeared from the map. ☹


Uninstalling and reinstalling fixed it. Sorry if I made anyone worry!


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

MJJME said:


> Has to be a Disney IT glitch.........If i had to guess, this will be corrected y tomorrow


Not a glitch, it has always been stated that offsite could book G+ attractions at 7am.


----------



## itf

boilermakeric said:


> Pretty much!  Just confirmed 7DMT did the same thing... widespread ILL$ timeslots available again starting as soon as 9:15 EST



Thanks, very helpful to know as an off-site guest!


----------



## Sunelis

Android user here... Nowhere near Diney now... My tip board is not loading. Anyone out there with a similar problem?


----------



## OhDannyBoy

Guess I'm going to have to train a co-pilot as I have a party of 16 (well, 15 and one under 2) but apparently can only book for 12 at a time.

That should be interesting. I have until February to figure it all out.

Hats (ears!!) off to all of you out there reporting back to us!!


----------



## LSUfan4444

ENJDisneyFan said:


> Not a glitch, it has always been stated that offsite could book G+ attractions at 7am.


I got confused by the same question. When I saw the term lightening lane, I assumed she meant ILL which would not be 7am. 

Genie +, yes. Lightening Lane, no.


----------



## CynBeth

We called to have this added to our tickets for our trip in November and it is showing up weird when we look at the website or app under tickets.  We used to have 8 day tickets with park hopper and now it says (clone of) ticket with 28 ATS codes. Does anyone else who purchased today for a November or December trip see the same thing?


----------



## MJJME

ENJDisneyFan said:


> Not a glitch, it has always been stated that offsite could book G+ attractions at 7am.


We werent talking Genie+, we were talking IAS/ILL purchases


----------



## OhDannyBoy

Sunelis said:


> Android user here... Nowhere near Diney now... My tip board is not loading. Anyone out there with a similar problem?


I was messing with it and had to close and reopen the app a few times already as it froze when trying to see the tips. I'm not in Orlando either.


----------



## wisblue

ENJDisneyFan said:


> Not a glitch, it has always been stated that offsite could book G+ attractions at 7am.



I thought that it was that the purchased IALL could be purchased by offsite guests at 7 AM but that the Genie+ selections could only be made by offsite guests when they entered the park.

Because we always stay onsite with DVC maybe I understood it wrong.


----------



## Disturbia

Can someone also report on how long your battery lasts - I mean phone


----------



## snikki

I’m in NJ. My tip board isn’t loading and is kicking me out saying there’s a connection issue.


----------



## LSUfan4444

wisblue said:


> I thought that it was that the purchased IALL could be purchased by offsite guests at 7 AM but that the Genie+ selections could only be made by offsite guests when they entered the park.


Thats backwards...everyone can make their G+ selections at 7am, ILL's at 7am for on-site and park open for not.


----------



## Disturbia

snikki said:


> I’m in NJ. My tip board isn’t loading and is kicking me out saying there’s a connection issue.


My tip board loaded fine and I didn’t add Genie+ or anything yet, just updated app


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

LSUfan4444 said:


> I got confused by the same question. When I saw the term lightening lane, I assumed she meant ILL which would not be 7am.
> 
> Genie +, yes. Lightening Lane, no.





MJJME said:


> We werent talking Genie+, we were talking IAS/ILL purchases



OK - I guess the terminology is confusing because I thought the OP was referring to the LL with G+...which would be 7am for offsite guests....



AnnaKristoff2013 said:


> Is there anyone staying offsite who was able to book a *Genie+ LL *before park open today?  This is a critical detail we still seem to be missing.


----------



## kiddo76

Wow, ROTR times are all over the place. I saw as early as 11:00 and as late at 7:20.

It's encouraging that there is still availability for off-site guests. We'll have to see if/when ILL sells out.


----------



## disneyworldsk

question: if i only want one day of my trip for disney genie plus for next week i'm coming on vacation but not all the four days of my visit, i can't prepurchase it online or in the app, it will only allow me to buy all four days to upgrade my ticket, not one individual day , correct?


----------



## LSUfan4444

ENJDisneyFan said:


> OK - *I guess the terminology is confusing* because I thought the OP was referring to the LL with G+...which would be 7am for offsite guests....


Yes, confused me too. I thought the poster was asking about ILLs not Genie +

Hopefully we can all just refer to LL and G+ and stop calling it LL with G+ because I think thats confusing people asking questions and people answering them


----------



## elgerber

wisblue said:


> Just to be clear because there seems to be a lot of confusion about this.
> 
> Do you have to hit the “purchase” button to see the list of available times?
> 
> If so, does the purchase only become complete when you pick a time and confirm the purchase?
> 
> I wouldn’t want to commit to a purchase before I knew that a convenient time was available.


No. You select the attraction. Then you click a time. Then you purchase.


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

Has anyone offsite been able to book a ILL$ for Remy yet today?  
There was question about whether it would be available for purchase when the first park opens for the day, or whether they would be available when Epcot opens (which I believe is 10am today).


----------



## RedmonFamily

RamieGee said:


> Sorry if someone’s already said this but, it’s 9:05 and the next Slinky Dog is already 6:25pm.
> View attachment 614559


Refresh does work, one for 4:55 showed up


----------



## MJJME

With the inventory being refreshed at 9am, what is the advantage to being onsite and able to book at 7am?  

at 9am, Disney dropped new inventory and ROTR other IAS rides had 9am availability 

Why would i wake up at 7am and see SDMT is now 4pm return and then at 9am they drop new inventory and 10am is available?

No resort benefit


----------



## RamieGee

RamieGee said:


> Sorry if someone’s already said this but, it’s 9:05 and the next Slinky Dog is already 6:25pm.
> View attachment 614559


So, FYI, LL times can fluctuate backwards.

At 9:11am it was a 6:40pm return time
At 9:22am it was a 4:55pm return time


----------



## Disturbia

kiddo76 said:


> Wow, ROTR times are all over the place. I saw as early as 11:00 and as late at 7:20.
> 
> It's encouraging that there is still availability for off-site guests. We'll have to see if/when ILL sells out.


I’m thinking it’s trying to work around your plans and not send everyone to one attraction-spread passes across the day.

I think we are all thinking of next available like fastpass+, this is not that


----------



## RedmonFamily

Is rise sold out?!


----------



## lorileahb

I figured it out - have to go to the day you are planning, scroll to the bottom and click


itf said:


> But that's what I'm saying for ROTR etc will the slots not go before off-site people even get a chance?



If that's the case, that is now one of the perks of being a resort guest (almost like a paid extra-hours).


----------



## Farro

disneyworldsk said:


> question: if i only want one day of my trip for disney genie plus for next week i'm coming on vacation but not all the four days of my visit, i can't prepurchase it online or in the app, it will only allow me to buy all four days to upgrade my ticket, not one individual day , correct?



Yes, if you pre-purchase you have to buy for all days of your ticket package. So we plan to just purchase individual days while we are there this/next week, each morning we want to use it.


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

LSUfan4444 said:


> Yes, confused me too. I thought the poster was asking about ILLs not Genie +
> 
> Hopefully we can all just refer to LL and G+ and stop calling it LL with G+ because I think thats confusing people asking questions and people answering them


Agreed we need a standard acronym for each! 
I personally don't like using just "LL" because that actually applies to both., since "Lightning Lane" is just the name of the queue.  The way you access that queue is either through Genie + (G+) or an Individual Lightning Lane Selection (ILL$).  So my preference would be G+ and ILL$....but I'm not in charge here


----------



## RamieGee

RedmonFamily said:


> Refresh does work, one for 4:55 showed upView attachment 614564



There appears to be some wild machine learning going on.  It will be hard to predict patterns, except for the general guidelines of “grab SDD 1st thing in the morning.”


----------



## jimim

RedmonFamily said:


> View attachment 614534
> 8 am and it is already showing 12:40 as next available for TT



uggg we r usually out of the parks by then. We like to go in at rope drop. Do a few things. Do our 2-3 fast passes and blow out till after diner.

I can’t wait to see how this all pans out over next few months. Today it doesn’t even bother to read cause everything will be all over the place and wonky. I’m sure Disney’s IT dept is hard at working logging issues to push fixes through.

lol


----------



## boilermakeric

For whatever it's worth, looks like they are selling ILL$ timeslots up to different times vs applicable park closing.  Rise until 8PM, but MRR until 8:30 (9 PM close). FOP until 6:30, but Everest until 6:20 (7 PM close).  Haven't seen anything yet that gets closer than 30 min before park closing.  I'm assuming G+ LL options will run to those same points before stopping for the day?


----------



## Disturbia

You never know what genie has up its sleeve


----------



## RamieGee

RamieGee said:


> There appears to be some wild machine learning going on.  It will be hard to predict patterns, except for the general guidelines of “grab SDD 1st thing in the morning.”


Aaaaaannnddd….now it’s at 6:55pm…


----------



## MJJME

Disturbia said:


> I’m thinking it’s trying to work around your plans and not send everyone to one attraction-spread passes across the day.
> 
> I think we are all thinking of next available like fastpass+, this is not that


Disney's release said it was like FP+ in that you got to choose your return time during its release


----------



## OhDannyBoy

RedmonFamily said:


> View attachment 614566
> Is rise sold out?!


Wow, you posted this, I checked, saw a 7 PM available, and now it's unavailable again...this is nuts!!

There's a 7:25open now!!


----------



## Disturbia

We need to stop thinking of it as Fastpass+ next available.  The inventory is fixed; Genie is just trying to spread the crowds; ILLA$ can sell out though


----------



## snikki

ROTR showing sold out for me too. Wow.


----------



## Garyjames220

Can u use genie plus when u park hop


----------



## snikki

Disturbia said:


> My tip board loaded fine and I didn’t add Genie+ or anything yet, just updated app



It’s working for me now. I had to login again then it started working.


----------



## LSUfan4444

MJJME said:


> With the inventory being refreshed at 9am, what is the advantage to being onsite and able to book at 7am?
> 
> at 9am, Disney dropped new inventory and ROTR other IAS rides had 9am availability
> 
> Why would i wake up at 7am and see SDMT is now 4pm return and then at 9am they drop new inventory and 10am is available?
> 
> No resort benefit


I definitely think there is a benefit to having your ILLs done and booked at 7am and not having to worry about it while trying to rope drop a park


----------



## RedmonFamily

Garyjames220 said:


> Can u use genie plus when u park hop


Yes


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

snikki said:


> ROTR showing sold out for me too. Wow.


I'm not surprised... I think everyone knew it would be most popular.  BGs were gone in seconds.


Garyjames220 said:


> Can u use genie plus when u park hop


Yes


----------



## LSUfan4444

Garyjames220 said:


> Can u use genie plus when u park hop


Yes


----------



## kiddo76

ROTR sold out for me too.

Now let's see if times becomes available again throughout the day.


----------



## katyringo

Remember it's day one folks. There is sure to be glitches..  hang tight!


----------



## Disturbia

LLIA$ will sell out.  That’s the only caveat


----------



## FlipHipster

It's likely people are grabbing slots then cancelling them so the time slots open back up. Once they are grabbed again, the times will jump back up to the actual next available time


----------



## kiddo76

kiddo76 said:


> ROTR sold out for me too.
> 
> Now let's see if times becomes available again throughout the day.


Well, now it says 7:25


----------



## RedmonFamily

kiddo76 said:


> ROTR sold out for me too.
> 
> Now let's see if times becomes available again throughout the day.


In wonder if it was the surge of off-site guests being able to purchase.


----------



## OhDannyBoy

RoR 7:40 time slot available....

I feel like I'm at the park right now....


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

FlipHipster said:


> It's likely people are grabbing slots then cancelling them so the time slots open back up. Once they are grabbed again, the times will jump back up to the actual next available time


That could be true for G+ attractions, but ILL$ attractions are not able to be cancelled or updated, so it's weird that times for ROTR are coming and going.


----------



## MJJME

FlipHipster said:


> It's likely people are grabbing slots then cancelling them so the time slots open back up. Once they are grabbed again, the times will jump back up to the actual next available time


If you are talking about IAS/ILL and NOT Genie+ selections, you cannot cancel or modify IAS/ILL selections


----------



## Disturbia

FlipHipster said:


> It's likely people are grabbing slots then cancelling them so the time slots open back up. Once they are grabbed again, the times will jump back up to the actual next available time


I thought you can’t cancel or change LLIA$


----------



## OhDannyBoy

OhDannyBoy said:


> RoR 7:40 time slot available....
> 
> I feel like I'm at the park right now....


----------



## Disturbia

OhDannyBoy said:


> RoR 7:40 time slot available....
> 
> I feel like I'm at the park right now....


ROTR?


----------



## jimim

Disturbia said:


> We need to stop thinking of it as Fastpass+ next available.  The inventory is fixed; Genie is just trying to spread the crowds; ILLA$ can sell out though


So pretty much they are trying to keep you in the park all day. There can be availability right now and they might say “no soup for you till 5 pm”. And if that’s the case that’s some bull cause like myself I don’t want to be in a wicked crowded park in the middle of the afternoon. Never did never will.


----------



## Disturbia

jimim said:


> So pretty much they are trying to keep you in the park all day. There can be availability right now and they might say “no soup for you till 5 pm”. And if that’s the case that’s some bull cause like myself I don’t want to be in a wicked crowded park in the middle of the afternoon. Never did never will.


I have Oga’s ADR at 11:30 am.  I’m thinking that would be a negative and we want to take a mid day break.


----------



## Airb330

Wait times for ROTR seem impacted by the ILL$. I’ve been seeing 60-105 for weeks and it is 120 right now. However, hard to pin that just on genie right now. I do think genie will add to Rise’s _relatively_ reasonable standby times though.


----------



## OhDannyBoy

Disturbia said:


> ROTR?


Sorry Yes.

It was gone, a 7:25 available for like 3 minutes, gone, 7:40 for another few minutes, gone...


----------



## zebrastreyepz

Disturbia said:


> I think that’s why they held back some ADRs and kept changing park hours.  Would be interesting to see if Genie can get you into CRT or Oga’s


CRT had nothing for today but Oga's was taking reservations when I checked. Be Our Guest was also taking reservations.


----------



## wisblue

elgerber said:


> No. You select the attraction. Then you click a time. Then you purchase.



Let me be more specific.

Maybe this is different for people with tickets for today, but if I go to the Runaway Railway, there’s a button that says “Individual Lightning Lane. Window Starts at 10:35 AM. Purchase for $8.”

Do you have to click on that to see the list of times? If I just click on the attraction name all I get is a description of the attraction.

The button suggests that if you click on it you  are buying a return time of 10:35. Maybe it is just saying that’s the earliest available. But for the Genie+ attractions the lightning lane field just gives a time. Maybe the “window starts at” language is the distinction that suggests (cryptically) that you’ll have a choice.


----------



## Disturbia

So they might have dropped more inventory as well as shuffling crowds.

so offsite guests might have a chance, but it will be harder to get ROTR


----------



## snikki

jimim said:


> So pretty much they are trying to keep you in the park all day. There can be availability right now and they might say “no soup for you till 5 pm”. And if that’s the case that’s some bull cause like myself I don’t want to be in a wicked crowded park in the middle of the afternoon. Never did never will.



We are park hopping people. We like to do an AM park, pool break and PM park. One park strategy I’ve been thinking about is skipping G+ most days and just doing ILL for my PM park. I have a year until our trip so I will be reading a lot over the next year. I don’t want to be stuck in one park.


----------



## Avery&Todd

Has anyone with an AP they need to activate been able to buy Genie + for an upcoming trip?  It won't let me buy it for our Nov 10th trip.


----------



## snikki

Seems that the early entry for on-site guests may be a nice perk, especially for DHS with SDD Smugglers. They seem to have pretty late return times.


----------



## OhDannyBoy

Disturbia said:


> So they might have dropped more inventory as well as shuffling crowds.
> 
> so offsite guests might have a chance, but it will be harder to get ROTR


If you play the refresh game, availability sporadically pops up for late windows but you have to be really quick on the draw


----------



## Disturbia

It would be nice to see bloggers doing a live feed today


----------



## snikki

Question: if my plan is to do MK in the morning and DHS in the PM can I purchase G+ and make a LL for SDD for the evening (since they go fast) and still continue getting morning G+ in MK? I know I would have the 120 minute wait and all that.


----------



## CindysMice

Disturbia said:


> It would be nice to see bloggers doing a live feed today


Agreed. I can’t find anyone doing a live stream with the focus of the Genie+ launch.


----------



## OhDannyBoy

Disturbia said:


> It would be nice to see bloggers doing a live feed today


EDITED as I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post that but there are a bunch of lime streamers right now.


----------



## Disturbia

snikki said:


> Seems that the early entry for on-site guests may be a nice perk, especially for DHS with SDD Smugglers. They seem to have pretty late return times.


No way I can get 3 kids out the door by 7:15 am to line up for the skyliner (switched resort Art of Animation).


----------



## Sunelis

snikki said:


> Question: if my plan is to do MK in the morning and DHS in the PM can I purchase G+ and make a LL for SDD for the evening (since they go fast) and still continue getting morning G+ in MK? I know I would have the 120 minute wait and all that.


In theory yes. But I would really like to see someone test it in real life.


----------



## CindysMice

OhDannyBoy said:


>


Yeah I’m actually watching her now but she’s not using Genie+ today.


----------



## CarolynFH

Avery&Todd said:


> Has anyone with an AP they need to activate been able to buy Genie + for an upcoming trip?  It won't let me buy it for our Nov 10th trip.


I might be wrong, but I thought that only regular tickets (or maybe even just package tickets) could add Genie+ in advance, and that APs had to wait no matter whether activated or not.


----------



## lovethattink

Disturbia said:


> It would be nice to see bloggers doing a live feed today



My son will be going live later today from MK. I can’t post his info because we don’t allow self-promotion.


----------



## RedmonFamily

So just speculating here but to me it does not seem like you will be able to do many rides using genie+... At least not headliners. Not sure I want to pay $15 to only get maybe 3 or 4 rides. 5 dollars a ride is close to ILL prices.


----------



## Avery&Todd

CarolynFH said:


> I might be wrong, but I thought that only regular tickets (or maybe even just package tickets) could add Genie+ in advance, and that APs had to wait no matter whether activated or not.


Argh!!!!!!!!! Not what i wanted to hear!!! 

We have to activate them when we arrive which means we'll miss all the 7am drops!!


----------



## Wood Nymph

snikki said:


> Question: if my plan is to do MK in the morning and DHS in the PM can I purchase G+ and make a LL for SDD for the evening (since they go fast) and still continue getting morning G+ in MK? I know I would have the 120 minute wait and all that.


I have an Epcot park reservation today but when I went to the map of MK and clicked on Space Mountain, the option to buy an individual lightening lane pass showed up. It even showed the Genie+ rides for MK. So it looks like the answer might be yes.  It knows that I am park hopping and begins to offer times after 2pm.


----------



## snikki

Disturbia said:


> No way I can get 3 kids out the door by 7:15 am to line up for the skyliner (switched resort Art of Animation).



I hear you. That is rough.


----------



## empedocles

OhDannyBoy said:


> EDITED as I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post that but there are a bunch of lime streamers right now.



What about lemon streamers?


----------



## boop0524

Avery&Todd said:


> Has anyone with an AP they need to activate been able to buy Genie + for an upcoming trip?  It won't let me buy it for our Nov 10th trip.


Same boat (same week, see you there!) and said I had to wait. 

Also would like to know how purchasing ILL$ (Is that the acronym lol) will go for big groups. Does one person just foot the bill when they get the reservation?


----------



## MJJME

RedmonFamily said:


> So just speculating here but to me it does not seem like you will be able to do many rides using genie+... At least not headliners. Not sure I want to pay $15 to only get maybe 3 or 4 rides. 5 dollars a ride is close to ILL prices.


agree 100%.....a lot of people thought it might be worth it if you were park hopping to another park but if theres nothing available in the second park then it's def not worth it


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

lovethattink said:


> Local AP, I could choose at 7am.


Awesome, thank you!


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

MJJME said:


> Has to be a Disney IT glitch.........If i had to guess, this will be corrected y tomorrow


Why would it be a glitch?  This was how it was reported it was supposed to work.  Genie+ all guests at 7 am, ILL$, On-site at 7 am, offsite at park open.


----------



## TropicalDIS

Updated the app, my future plans are there for next month, but can't get tip board to load to see today's wait times.  Even though I'm not there, I should still be able too? Have tried rebooting, and signing out/signing in.


----------



## DavidNYC

Do we confirmation yet of:

1. whether if you booked a ride at 7am your 120 minute window started then or didn’t start until park open

2.  Can you modify LL time (regular ones - not the ILL ones)

I so didn’t want to be right about this but does seem far more stressful with massive loss of control over your day.  The fluctuating times for the paid experiences and not being allowed to modify is really inexcusable.  Perfect example of how Disney wants to take charge of your day and remove your ability to plan what works for you.


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

MJJME said:


> With the inventory being refreshed at 9am, what is the advantage to being onsite and able to book at 7am?
> 
> at 9am, Disney dropped new inventory and ROTR other IAS rides had 9am availability
> 
> Why would i wake up at 7am and see SDMT is now 4pm return and then at 9am they drop new inventory and 10am is available?
> 
> No resort benefit


There is no benefit other then the slight benefit of getting a second shot at 9 am if you didn’t get a good time at 7 am.  On the other hand you have to wake up at 7 am….  Seems like no real resort benefit relative to genie or IAS at this point.


----------



## wisblue

RedmonFamily said:


> So just speculating here but to me it does not seem like you will be able to do many rides using genie+... At least not headliners. Not sure I want to pay $15 to only get maybe 3 or 4 rides. 5 dollars a ride is close to ILL prices.



My immediate reaction from this first real experience is about what I expected.

I think this will be like paper FP on a crowded day. To get something for one of the most popular attractions (like Slinky) you will have to get it very early.


----------



## RedmonFamily

1 hour past park opening slinky dog is gone. Refresh is the only option now.


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

snikki said:


> ROTR showing sold out for me too. Wow.


Well I guess Chapek just learned that $15 per person per ride is too low for ROTR.  Can’t wait to see the pricing next week.


----------



## wideboty2000

How are they handling rider swap with LL?  will my daughter get to ride twice (with me and wife) even though we only buy her LL once? cant LL only be purchased once per person?  who wants to ride alone?!


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

OhDannyBoy said:


> RoR 7:40 time slot available....
> 
> I feel like I'm at the park right now....


I can’t see how a 7:40 pm ROTR ILL$ makes sense.  Couldn’t you just jump on standby line at 7:59 PM?


----------



## OhDannyBoy

AnnaKristoff2013 said:


> I can’t see how a 7:40 pm ROTR ILL$ makes sense.  Couldn’t you just jump on standby line at 7:59 PM?


Good point.


----------



## DavidNYC

What a mess of an app…. Was checking it out earlier and was checking out how purchasing ILL worked and now I go in and it only shows their recommendations (which don’t match what I said I preferred) and cannot even find anymore the screens for ILL.  Amazingly un-user friendly and a muddled mess.


----------



## Disturbia

RedmonFamily said:


> So just speculating here but to me it does not seem like you will be able to do many rides using genie+... At least not headliners. Not sure I want to pay $15 to only get maybe 3 or 4 rides. 5 dollars a ride is close to ILL prices.


It probably won’t be publicized, but it looks like that’s a trick up Genie’s sleeve; hence Genie+ will never sell out


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

AnnaKristoff2013 said:


> I can’t see how a 7:40 pm ROTR ILL$ makes sense.  Couldn’t you just jump on standby line at 7:59 PM?


You could....unless they close the line early.  And no guarantee how long you'll have to wait.  The ILL$ will (in theory at least) give you a guaranteed shorter wait time.  For some people that is worth paying for.


----------



## Jrb1979

DavidNYC said:


> Do we confirmation yet of:
> 
> 1. whether if you booked a ride at 7am your 120 minute window started then or didn’t start until park open
> 
> 2.  Can you modify LL time (regular ones - not the ILL ones)
> 
> I so didn’t want to be right about this but does seem far more stressful with massive loss of control over your day.  The fluctuating times for the paid experiences and not being allowed to modify is really inexcusable.  Perfect example of how Disney wants to take charge of your day and remove your ability to plan what works for you.


What I read is that 120 minute window starts once park opens. 

It looks like there is no "modify" option with G+. Similar to Park Pass, it appears G+ makes you cancel your existing LL in order to choose a different time. So if you grab the first available (for say, 2pm), but then you refresh and see an 11am slot pop up, it's possible that by the time you cancel your 2pm reservation and return to the LL selection screen, the 11am slot could be gone, and now you've lost the one you had at 2pm.


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

AnnaKristoff2013 said:


> Why would it be a glitch?  This was how it was reported it was supposed to work.  Genie+ all guests at 7 am, ILL$, On-site at 7 am, offsite at park open.


We had a lot of discussion on this a few pages back.  I think there was confusion about whether you were talking about G+ attractions or the paid ILL$ attractions.


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

DavidNYC said:


> Do we confirmation yet of:
> 
> 1. whether if you booked a ride at 7am your 120 minute window started then or didn’t start until park open
> 
> 2.  Can you modify LL time (regular ones - not the ILL ones)
> 
> I so didn’t want to be right about this but does seem far more stressful with massive loss of control over your day.  The fluctuating times for the paid experiences and not being allowed to modify is really inexcusable.  Perfect example of how Disney wants to take charge of your day and remove your ability to plan what works for you.


We have confirmation as to 1.  Another poster indicated that their “next available ability to book” was at 11 am after making a selection at 7 am.  It’s posted upthread.

Doesn’t sound like Ike you can modify, (but you can cancel), but I’m not sure about that one.


----------



## snikki

wisblue said:


> My immediate reaction from this first real experience is about what I expected.
> 
> I think this will be like paper FP on a crowded day. To get something for one of the most popular attractions (like Slinky) you will have to get it very early.



Yup. This is a virtual legacy FP and we barely used legacy FP because of this and the running everywhere.


----------



## Disturbia

empedocles said:


> What about lemon streamers?


Auto correct throws all kinds of things at us


----------



## JoJoGirl

boop0524 said:


> Same boat (same week, see you there!) and said I had to wait.



We’ve known for a while that APs would not be able to purchase G+ in advance, but can add it day-of for the days they want.

What about inactivated AP vouchers?  Does the voucher have to be activated in order to add G+ day-of, or to purchase ILL$ at 7:00 am for later that day?  Or do we have to go to GR and activate the pass first?

This would be great to know for those of us traveling in with inactivated vouchers.


----------



## Disturbia

DavidNYC said:


> What a mess of an app…. Was checking it out earlier and was checking out how purchasing ILL worked and now I go in and it only shows their recommendations (which don’t match what I said I preferred) and cannot even find anymore the screens for ILL.  Amazingly un-user friendly and a muddled mess.


Not what I want to hear.  I was hoping it would be more helpful.  Hopefully a CM can help.  Maybe try logging out and back in?


----------



## wisblue

AnnaKristoff2013 said:


> There is no benefit other then the slight benefit of getting a second shot at 9 am if you didn’t get a good time at 7 am.  On the other hand you have to wake up at 7 am….  Seems like no real resort benefit relative to genie or IAS at this point.



I think the combination of being able to make the first LL reservation at 7 AM and the Early Entry gives resort guests willing to get up and out early a very significant head start over offsite guests.

At 9 AM resort guests might already have two headliner attractions under their belt and an early LL reservation in hand.

For example, if going to DHS, at 7AM I could get an early LL reservation for SDD (and an IALL for ROTR, which an offsite guest could get too). Then I could get to the park for EE and go directly to TOT and RNRC, which will probably have less traffic than the SDD and ROTR. After those two, I go use the SDD LL and get another LL for whatever suits me. At that time there might still be reasonable standby lines for things like TSMM or MFSR. Get a LL for one and do standby for the other and I would have most of the major attractions covered.


----------



## snikki

AnnaKristoff2013 said:


> Well I guess Chapek just learned that $15 per person per ride is too low for ROTR.  Can’t wait to see the pricing next week.


----------



## DavidNYC

OK - so under “My Day” it shows six recommendations.  I see now way to get a list of all rides or - if an ILL doesn’t happen to show in your recommendations, there seems no way to see it.  Is there a screen somewhere I’m missing???  Just show me a list of all wait times and lightning lane returns and which rides have ILL … I thought it was there this morning but gone now.


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

Jrb1979 said:


> What I read is that 120 minute window starts once park opens.
> 
> It looks like there is no "modify" option with G+. Similar to Park Pass, it appears G+ makes you cancel your existing LL in order to choose a different time. So if you grab the first available (for say, 2pm), but then you refresh and see an 11am slot pop up, it's possible that by the time you cancel your 2pm reservation and return to the LL selection screen, the 11am slot could be gone, and now you've lost the one you had at 2pm.


Yeah the strategy for genie isn’t going ot be modify / refresh, it’s going to be refresh until you see a time you’re willing to settle for knowing that if you don’t grab it you might not get a better one.


----------



## wisblue

snikki said:


> Yup. This is a virtual legacy FP and we barely used legacy FP because of this and the running everywhere.



At least this eliminates the running.

But we usually never got more than 1 or 2 FPs because we are rope drop/break/hopper tourists.

Genie+ might be good for doing some of the lesser attractions at MK in rapid succession.


----------



## JETSDAD

So my free day is loaded but still not working.  I'm trying to use the chat function in the app and the CM seems clueless.  Because nothing is working in the app for me they recommended using MDE online instead (which doesn't work for G+ or ILL or anything from what I can figure....please let me know if that is not the case lol).


----------



## Disturbia

snikki said:


> View attachment 614575


Ride it while you can before they bump up the price to $50


----------



## MJJME

OhDannyBoy said:


> Good point.


If the IAS are sold out for that hour window then standby lines will be a lot higher than what they have been


----------



## snikki

wisblue said:


> At least this eliminates the running.
> 
> *But we usually never got more than 1 or 2 FPs because we are rope drop/break/hopper tourists.*
> 
> Genie+ might be good for doing some of the lesser attractions at MK in rapid succession.



Same. Also with small children we didn’t want to separate too much so we stuck to mostly rides we could ride together.


----------



## Disturbia

wisblue said:


> I think the combination of being able to make the first LL reservation at 7 AM and the Early Entry gives resort guests willing to get up and out early a very significant head start over offsite guests.
> 
> At 9 AM resort guests might already have two headliner attractions under their belt and an early LL reservation in hand.
> 
> For example, if going to DHS, at 7AM I could get an early LL reservation for SDD (and an IALL for ROTR, which an offsite guest could get too). Then I could get to the park for EE and go directly to TOT and RNRC, which will probably have less traffic than the SDD and ROTR. After those two, I go use the SDD LL and get another LL for whatever suits me. At that time there might still be reasonable standby lines for things like TSMM or MFSR. Get a LL for one and do standby for the other and I would have most of the major attractions covered.


You’ll see parents like me screming I’ll leave it everyone behind who isn’t  ready in 30 mins (with the snoring parent of course).


----------



## jennypenny

Is anyone else getting an error when you try to purchase a $LL? I'm able to choose one at Epcot (not my park res for today) but not at any of the other parks. It says "Your selections aren't loading at this time" and refreshing does nothing.

I know RotR is sold out but I can't get even the easy ones to load.


----------



## ande2428

CJLove79 said:


> Has anybody found out if you can use a Disney gift card to pay for Lightning Lanes and Genie plus?


I finally found an article that says we can.  https://blogmickey.com/2021/10/how-to-purchase-an-individual-lightning-lane-with-disney-genie/


----------



## GoingSince1990

RedmonFamily said:


> View attachment 614574
> 1 hour past park opening slinky dog is gone. Refresh is the only option now.


AND your battery is already down to 31%!


----------



## snikki

Disturbia said:


> Ride it while you can before they bump up the price to $50



We don’t go until November of next year. Lots of time for those prices to go oven higher.


----------



## roller99

DavidNYC said:


> OK - so under “My Day” it shows six recommendations.  I see now way to get a list of all rides or - if an ILL doesn’t happen to show in your recommendations, there seems no way to see it.  Is there a screen somewhere I’m missing???  Just show me a list of all wait times and lightning lane returns and which rides have ILL … I thought it was there this morning but gone now.



The new Tip Board screen has the list of all rides by park.


----------



## Disturbia

GoingSince1990 said:


> AND your battery is already down to 31%!


I have 3 chargers, was hoping 2 will do


----------



## ande2428

michaeldorn1 said:


> I apologize if this has already been answered:  Does anyone know if Disney Gift Cards can be added to MDE as a form of payment ( which can then pay for Genie+ and IA$ ) or will it only allow a credit/debit card or both?  Thanks for the info!


Looks like we can (phew - as I have built up quite a pile of them):  https://blogmickey.com/2021/10/how-to-purchase-an-individual-lightning-lane-with-disney-genie/


----------



## RedmonFamily

One thing I do love is the fact the EE has availability for every time slot! Lol


----------



## Disturbia

snikki said:


> We don’t go until November of next year. Lots of time for those prices to go oven higher.


It might go down if you’re going off peak season


----------



## rmclain73

I wish they would allow you to view LL times by wait instead of alphabetical.


----------



## Sunelis

JETSDAD said:


> So my free day is loaded but still not working.  I'm trying to use the chat function in the app and the CM seems clueless.  Because nothing is working in the app for me they recommended using MDE online instead (which doesn't work for G+ or ILL or anything from what I can figure....please let me know if that is not the case lol).


From what I remember they said that Genie (all versions) would ONLY be available on the app. Not in the browser version.


----------



## Disturbia

RedmonFamily said:


> One thing I do love is the fact the EE has availability for every time slot! Lol


That has single rider, so if your child meets the criteria for single rider (min age 7?) you can use that instead.  Same thing for Test Track and Space


----------



## DisneyNyBride

Has it been stated somewhere whether you can start booking LL and Genie+ on your arrival day at 7am if you haven't yet checked in to the resort?


----------



## Grasshopper2016

Looking forward to reports at 11:00 from people trying to stack. 

And I’m really disappointed that you have to cancel a Genie+ LL before trying to switch to a different one.  That’s a huge gamble that makes refreshing much less useful


----------



## Disturbia

JETSDAD said:


> So my free day is loaded but still not working.  I'm trying to use the chat function in the app and the CM seems clueless.  Because nothing is working in the app for me they recommended using MDE online instead (which doesn't work for G+ or ILL or anything from what I can figure....please let me know if that is not the case lol).


That’s their standard response point to app if webpage has issues and vice versa.


----------



## RedmonFamily

Disturbia said:


> That has single rider, so if your child meets the criteria for single rider (min age 7?) you can use that instead.  Same thing for Test Track and Space


Oh I know, it is the irony of the fact they had to offer 2 rides for ILL. Please pay $7  to skip a posted wait time of 15 mins.


----------



## 0FF TO NEVERLAND

If you are at the park right now, don't brag about your lightening lane. I was seeing posts about people screaming saying worth it as they passed everyone waiting on line.

Maybe those people can't afford that for their families, so don't be a fool about it. It's rude and stupid


----------



## PaladinButters

AnnaKristoff2013 said:


> Well I guess Chapek just learned that $15 per person per ride is too low for ROTR. Can’t wait to see the pricing next week.



Can't wait to see what pricing looks like for Tron when it opens!



wisblue said:


> For example, if going to DHS, at 7AM I could get an early LL reservation for SDD (and an IALL for ROTR, which an offsite guest could get too). Then I could get to the park for EE and go directly to TOT and RNRC, which will probably have less traffic than the SDD and ROTR. After those two, I go use the SDD LL and get another LL for whatever suits me. At that time there might still be reasonable standby lines for things like TSMM or MFSR. Get a LL for one and do standby for the other and I would have most of the major attractions covered.



Please hold while I write down this exact strategy........


----------



## Disturbia

Grasshopper2016 said:


> Looking forward to reports at 11:00 from people trying to stack.
> 
> And I’m really disappointed that you have to cancel a Genie+ LL before trying to switch to a different one.  That’s a huge gamble that makes refreshing much less useful


What!  That’s horrible; even ADRs are held until you go to confirmation


----------



## DavidNYC

MJJME said:


> It has been confirmed
> 
> *What if the return time for that selection is not until much later in the day?*
> Walt Disney World has confirmed that guests will be able to make another reservation 120 minutes after their first reservation even if they have not yet redeemed the first Genie+ selection.
> In practice, this means that you might make a reservation at 7:05 am for Splash Mountain that has a return time of 10:00 am. At 9:05 am–before riding Splash Mountain, you’d be able to make another ride reservation.


 
Are you sticking with this? You were pretty insistent on this but seems like reports are that you cannot do this and in fact if you make a reservation for 7:05 you can make your next one at 11am - 2 hours after park open. Do you have any reports to the contrary so far? Big difference in the ability to do a little stacking earlier.


----------



## RedmonFamily

GoingSince1990 said:


> AND your battery is already down to 31%!


I am not at the parks


----------



## empedocles

Grasshopper2016 said:


> And I’m really disappointed that you have to cancel a Genie+ LL before trying to switch to a different one.  That’s a huge gamble that makes refreshing much less useful



Disney telegraphed that move with the park reservations.


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

empedocles said:


> Disney telegraphed that move with the park reservations.


Except now you can modify park reservations, can’t you?


----------



## Orsino

- Are there any reports on LL vs standby merge characteristics? In other words, how many LL are being admitted versus standby? I see that popular rides like ROTR and SDD are 'sold out'/'booked out' but I can't believe that disney sold the same number of Genie+LL for SDD as they distributed for FP+. The LL access must be less. Any first hand reports on the merge?

- I realize now that Disney has set up a prisoner's dilemma for LL access. Honestly, I think we all would be better off if everyone shunned LL, but if more people don't buy LL, the more beneficial LL becomes. As a result people will buy it, then as more people buy it, not buying it becomes a losing proposition. Game Theory looks at the prisoner's dilemma and determines that 'betray' is the optimal choice for both prisoners. Similarly, 'buy Genie+' becomes the optimal choice for disney 'prisoners.' In other words, I don't want to buy Genie+, but if everyone else is, I have to too.


----------



## PaladinButters

0FF TO NEVERLAND said:


> If you are at the park right now, don't brag about your lightening lane. I was seeing posts about people screaming saying worth it as they passed everyone waiting on line.



Uh..... screaming about it into random people's faces or yelling excitedly about it amongst their friends/family?  Those are two very different things.


----------



## LSUfan4444

MJJME said:


> Not sure I want to pay $15 to only get maybe 3 or 4 rides. 5 dollars a ride is close to ILL prices.



I think those who benefit the most from G+ will be those who use it strategically and base their value more on quality, not quantity. What attractions and when and still use the other advantages like rope drop, park close and during fireworks. 

This is not the days of sending someone around the park to grab as many FP as possible.


----------



## DavidNYC

Disturbia said:


> What!  That’s horrible; even ADRs are held until you go to confirmation


How they didn't implement a system where you could pick a new ride and it automatically cancels the old one is beyond me.  Wait - no it's not . . . it's exactly as many of us predicted . . . Disney wants to control your day.  It wants to put you in the time slots they want you to be in and make it more difficult for you to plan around your own schedule.  There were a few features I was waiting to see as the main ones that would determine whether this is a deal breaker for me and not being able to modify LL selections was one of them especially if the times offered were going to fluctuate wildly which seems they are.


----------



## CWTC

Anyone figure out how to get a LL in another park post 2pm?  I can’t figure out how to add another park - just change.

thanks!


----------



## Disturbia

Everyone gets excited about BGs; We can choose to be happy for them.

Everyone today is working with an extremely stressful/glitchy/uncertain app, so they have extra Bragging rights (excited);unless they were personally offending someone (less likely).


----------



## BeBopaSaurus

rmclain73 said:


> I wish they would allow you to view LL times by wait instead of alphabetical.


You can select “My Top Picks” from the list of attractions, and it will put those few on the top of your list. That way, if the attraction you’re interested is near the end of the alphabet you can force it to the top of your list.


----------



## hhisc16

PaladinButters said:


> Can't wait to see what pricing looks like for Tron when it opens!
> 
> 
> 
> Please hold while I write down this exact strategy........


Cost: Equivalent of one lightcycle


----------



## empedocles

AnnaKristoff2013 said:


> Except now you can modify park reservations, can’t you?


Not to my knowledge. I just looked at MDE (web & app) and the only option I got when I viewed park reservation details was cancel.


----------



## Cliffside

Don’t know if it was posted..where do you see wait times on the Ap if you do are not in the park..trying to get a sense of what they are like. Who knows if they will be correct?


----------



## Disturbia

Also, has anyone tried just getting the earliest ride and keep booking, so we know that it works like maxpass?


----------



## MJJME

DavidNYC said:


> Are you sticking with this? You were pretty insistent on this but seems like reports are that you cannot do this and in fact if you make a reservation for 7:05 you can make your next one at 11am - 2 hours after park open. Do you have any reports to the contrary so far? Big difference in the ability to do a little stacking earlier.



Ummmmmm

Yes?

did you not read what I wrote?  exactly what i said is how it works....whats the confusion?


----------



## Disturbia

Cliffside said:


> Don’t know if it was posted..where do you see wait times on the Ap if you do are not in the park..trying to get a sense of what they are like. Who knows if they will be correct?


Someone said it’s in the tip board


----------



## OhDannyBoy

ROTR is temporarily closed.

That should be interesting.


----------



## DavidNYC

CWTC said:


> Anyone figure out how to get a LL in another park post 2pm?  I can’t figure out how to add another park - just change.
> 
> thanks!



From the "tip board" screen you can pull up all parks.  I had to ask about that as well - was looking all over "my day" but it's the other tab to see everything.


----------



## snikki

LSUfan4444 said:


> I think those who benefit the most from G+ will be those who use it strategically and base their value more on quality, not quantity. What attractions and when and still use the other advantages like rope drop, park close and during fireworks.
> 
> This is not the days of sending someone around the park to grab as many FP as possible.



I have always been a quality over quantity person what it came to FP+ and will do the same with this system. We always did our FP+ in the evening when waits would be well over an hour. People would say I was nuts for giving up so many opportunities to pull additional FP but I never found early FP+ to be needed since we were not in the parks midday anyway.


----------



## Violetspider

Cliffside said:


> Don’t know if it was posted..where do you see wait times on the Ap if you do are not in the park..trying to get a sense of what they are like. Who knows if they will be correct?


The Tip Board. You need to change the date to today and filter by the park you are interested in.


----------



## goofynut41

How come I cant add Genie+ to my reservations? Went to My Disney experince and it doesnt tell me how to add it to my plans...


----------



## MJJME

DavidNYC said:


> Are you sticking with this? You were pretty insistent on this but seems like reports are that you cannot do this and in fact if you make a reservation for 7:05 you can make your next one at 11am - 2 hours after park open. Do you have any reports to the contrary so far? Big difference in the ability to do a little stacking earlier.


It was clarified that the window didnt start until park opening, you must have missed that post?


----------



## OhDannyBoy

Cliffside said:


> Don’t know if it was posted..where do you see wait times on the Ap if you do are not in the park..trying to get a sense of what they are like. Who knows if they will be correct?


Click on tips.

Standby times are listed right above Genie+ windows.


----------



## Disturbia

Let’s all keep the conversation less personal and polite.  We can get banned for 10 days for arguing even respectfully


----------



## Dobby10

If you have a 5 day ticket, how do you add it to just 1 or 2 days?  I'm only seeing a way to add it to the whole ticket.


----------



## Violetspider

snikki said:


> I have always been a quality over quantity person what it came to FP+ and will do the same with this system. We always did our FP+ in the evening when waits would be well over an hour. People would say I was nuts for giving up so many opportunities to pull additional FP but I never found early FP+ to be needed since we were not in the parks midday anyway.


However, you won't be able to do that quickly. You will have to continue to refresh until the G+ LL times come up that you are interested in. It will happen quickly for a ride like SDD, but will take hours before rides like TOT have evening times displayed. ILL$ is a different story as you will be able to purchase the times you want.


----------



## Jonfw2

Gotta be honest: after seeing the app- even with my own trip months away- it seems pretty straightforward for the most part.


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

empedocles said:


> Not to my knowledge. I just looked at MDE (web & app) and the only option I got when I viewed park reservation details was cancel.


They recently added the option to modify park reservations.


----------



## DavidNYC

snikki said:


> I have always been a quality over quantity person what it came to FP+ and will do the same with this system. We always did our FP+ in the evening when waits would be well over an hour. People would say I was nuts for giving up so many opportunities to pull additional FP but I never found early FP+ to be needed since we were not in the parks midday anyway.


Well - you may have more of a problem than you think then.   What you said was all well and good when you could book afternoon times in advance knowing you wouldn't be in the park mid-day.  Problem is now when you try to book - they'll just offer you a time.   If it's for mid-day when you're not in the park, you're out of luck and have to keep checking your phone throughout the day until the system gets to when you'll be there.  And now, when you book your evening LL for 6pm, you may run out of time to even get a 2nd one.  At least before you could plan 3 of them for the evening and be done with your planning.  Now you'll be tied to your phone throughout the day to plan like that.


----------



## shaqfor3

So Rise of the Resistance Individual Passes were Out at 9:30 AM

Slinky Dog Dash is also out of LL for those who have Genie+.  (I recheck and now appears that they are back on up to 7PM).

Seem like DHS is the park that is getting hit hard

at 11AM  

*** - 12 PM
MMRR - 12:40 PM
MFSR - 4PM
Muppet - 11:10 AM
RnRC - 1:10 PM
SDD - 7:05 (it was showing out for me some minutes ago)
Star Tours - 11:30 AM
RotR - Not currently offered
TMM - 12:45PM
ToT - 12:45PM


----------



## AnnabelleTheTalkingTree

Violetspider said:


> The Tip Board. You need to change the date to today and filter by the park you are interested in.



you can also just hit the little location icon at the bottom of the screen (to the right of the home icon) and it takes you to the park maps/wait times.


----------



## Suzabella

Dobby10 said:


> If you have a 5 day ticket, how do you add it to just 1 or 2 days?  I'm only seeing a way to add it to the whole ticket.



I believe you can only add individual days, the day of or you have to add for all days.  I think I remember the timing being midnight day of.


----------



## Violetspider

AnnabelleTheTalkingTree said:


> you can also just hit the little location icon at the bottom of the screen (to the right of the home icon) and it takes you to the park maps/wait times.


See, I've already forgotten about the map. Thanks for the reminder.


----------



## LSUfan4444

goofynut41 said:


> How come I cant add Genie+ to my reservations? Went to My Disney experince and it doesnt tell me how to add it to my plans...


You have to change your ticket type unless you have a ticket and park reservation for today


----------



## Disturbia

snikki said:


> I have always been a quality over quantity person what it came to FP+ and will do the same with this system. We always did our FP+ in the evening when waits would be well over an hour. People would say I was nuts for giving up so many opportunities to pull additional FP but I never found early FP+ to be needed since we were not in the parks midday anyway.


We were the same.  I think somewhere/somehow Disney did a survey and they’re trying to get you to ride at least 4 rides (that’s the minimum people would be satisfied with).  This system isn’t supposed to be a 40 rides per day.

It would be great if there could be a tally added to this Thread - how many rides in a day you were able to accomplish.  I think people without families could easily do 20.


----------



## snikki

Violetspider said:


> However, you won't be able to do that quickly. You will have to continue to refresh until the G+ LL times come up that you are interested in. It will happen quickly for a ride like SDD, but will take hours before rides like TOT have evening times displayed. ILL$ is a different story as you will be able to purchase the times you want.





DavidNYC said:


> Well - you may have more of a problem than you think then.   What you said was all well and good when you could book afternoon times in advance knowing you wouldn't be in the park mid-day.  Problem is now when you try to book - they'll just offer you a time.   If it's for mid-day when you're not in the park, you're out of luck and have to keep checking your phone throughout the day until the system gets to when you'll be there.  And now, when you book your evening LL for 6pm, you may run out of time to even get a 2nd one.  At least before you could plan 3 of them for the evening and be done with your planning.  Now you'll be tied to your phone throughout the day to plan like that.



I have been thinking of doing ILL in my evening park and doing G+ on certain days (maybe 2-3 times during a 9 day trip). You will still be able to get so much done in the mornings with EE and RD. We never did morning FP+. I’ll wait to read more since I have a year until my trip and I’m sure things will change by then.


----------



## DavidNYC

Jonfw2 said:


> Gotta be honest: after seeing the app- even with my own trip months away- it seems pretty straightforward for the most part.


Oh - I think it's straightforward.  Just not good . . . I can see exactly how it works and am just disheartened that most of the pessimistic predictions about how it takes flexibility away from many were correct.  If you're the type that is happy to just take the time they offer you for a ride and do a few during the day at your 2 hour intervals it's very straight forward.  For those who liked a bit more ability to plan their day, or not be up at 7am or not arrive at the parks until later in the day, or have more flexibility to modify plans during the day as they see how things are going or due to unexpected things that arise - you've lost a lot of that ability.

Straighforward here I don't think is a positive for anyone who didn't want to put Disney in control of their day.


----------



## CindysMice

AnnabelleTheTalkingTree said:


> you can also just hit the little location icon at the bottom of the screen (to the right of the home icon) and it takes you to the park maps/wait times.


Wait times aren’t loading for me in the map. I think a few of us are experiencing this glitch.


----------



## MrBellatrixLestrange

OhDannyBoy said:


> ROTR is temporarily closed.
> 
> That should be interesting.


Agreed, assuming they clear the ILL customers first will the standby time be ridiculous?


----------



## Disturbia

snikki said:


> I have been thinking of doing ILL in my evening park and doing G+ on certain days. You will still be able to get so much done in the mornings with EE and RD. I’ll wait to read more since I have time until my trip.


Just make sure to watch some videos on EE crowds.  We are skipping those crowds.  I think I’m ROTR they had people fold strollers and carry kids.  No can do.


----------



## OhDannyBoy

Slinky Dog looks to be completed booked now.


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

CindysMice said:


> Wait times aren’t loading for me in the map. I think a few of us are experiencing this glitch.


A poster on another thread suggested force closing the app and then reopening.  I did that and it worked for me, I can see wait times again.


----------



## AnnabelleTheTalkingTree

Violetspider said:


> See, I've already forgotten about the map. Thanks for the reminder.



LOL the only reason I knew the answer to this was because I forgot too and was searching all over the place for the wait times screen.


----------



## Disturbia

CindysMice said:


> Wait times aren’t loading for me in the map. I think a few of us are experiencing this glitch.


Blank screen; I closed the app so it’s one less person clogging up the server


----------



## DavidNYC

snikki said:


> I have been thinking of doing ILL in my evening park and doing G+ on certain days. You will still be able to get so much done in the mornings with EE and RD. We never did morning FP+. I’ll wait to read more since I have a year until my trip and I’m sure things will change by then.


I never did FP early morning either.  I started them around 11am and did a couple hours standby and then FP from 11-2 or so and had the evening to get whatever other ones I wanted.  But the key was being able select YOUR return times from available ones.  Not being able to do that is probably the biggest flaw in the entire system and not sure how it benefits anyone.


----------



## AnnabelleTheTalkingTree

Can someone confirm whether you're able to make your next reservation as soon as you tap into your current attraction, and whether that next reservation needs to be 120 minutes away.


----------



## Garyjames220

Can someone tell me

- if I book my first genie plus ride for late afternoon can I stack them up for later in the day with out been in the park

- also can you select your time for both Individual selection LL if u make two


----------



## Octoberbaby

katyringo said:


> Remains to be seen.. but the wording they have made it sound like you would have to call..


So...I couldn't add to my tickets at midnight, but tried at 7am and was able to modify our tickets to add Genie+. What a relief...I was not looking forward to having to call.


----------



## snikki

Disturbia said:


> Just make sure to watch some videos on EE crowds.  We are skipping those crowds.  I think I’m ROTR they had people fold strollers and carry kids.  No can do.



We go the opposite of the crowds. So we wouldn’t go towards GE. We would go towards ToT. At MK we wouldn’t go to 7DMT. Or to FOP at AK. But I will look at those because I cant deal with a crush of people.


----------



## MrBellatrixLestrange

shaqfor3 said:


> So Rise of the Resistance Individual Passes were Out at 9:30 AM
> 
> Slinky Dog Dash is also out of LL for those who have Genie+.  (I recheck and now appears that they are back on up to 7PM).
> 
> Seem like DHS is the park that is getting hit hard
> 
> at 11AM
> 
> *** - 12 PM
> MMRR - 12:40 PM
> MFSR - 4PM
> Muppet - 11:10 AM
> RnRC - 1:10 PM
> SDD - 7:05 (it was showing out for me some minutes ago)
> Star Tours - 11:30 AM
> RotR - Not currently offered
> TMM - 12:45PM
> ToT - 12:45PM


So, and I know it's the first day so taking too much from the returns is probably not wise but, my first impression is book SDD at 7, at 11 book MFSR, and then hope at 1 there's something good left?


----------



## Grasshopper2016

Did anyone try to stack a second ride at 11:00?


----------



## CindysMice

ENJDisneyFan said:


> A poster on another thread suggested force closing the app and then reopening.  I did that and it worked for me, I can see wait times again.


Yeah I’ve done that few times and no luck, I even closed everything off my phone, shut my phone down and restarted… . Thanks though!


----------



## DoleWhipping

OhDannyBoy said:


> ROTR is temporarily closed.
> 
> That should be interesting.


Came here to say the same thing.





OhDannyBoy said:


> Slinky Dog looks to be completed booked now.



One just appears for 7:45


----------



## LSUfan4444

snikki said:


> I have been thinking of doing ILL in my evening park and doing G+ on certain days (maybe 2-3 times during a 9 day trip). You will still be able to get so much done in the mornings with EE and RD. We never did morning FP+. I’ll wait to read more since I have a year until my trip and I’m sure things will change by then.


We're planning on the same thing. The only two rides we even plan to use ILL for is Rise and Remy and thats only if we can't grab a Remy boarding group at 7am. We have two rope drop days at MK and won't use it on the first day, whether we use it on the second depends on how much success we have on the first day. At Epcot we will likely do G+ and if we fo FEA it will be at park close.


----------



## MJJME

Garyjames220 said:


> Can someone tell me
> 
> - if I book my first genie plus ride for late afternoon can I stack them up for later in the day with out been in the park
> 
> - also can you select your time for both Individual selection LL if u make two


Yes, you can stack at least 2 (not sure yet beyond that)

you can select return times but there seemed to be glitches w ROTR today


----------



## DavidNYC

AnnabelleTheTalkingTree said:


> Can someone confirm whether you're able to make your next reservation as soon as you tap into your current attraction, and whether that next reservation needs to be 120 minutes away.


The 120 minutes has nothing to do with how far away the next actual ride time has to be.  Just the maximum amount of time before you can make a new reservation (in case the prior ride reservation you have is more than 120 minutes in the future).   Several reports have confirmed ride times themselves can be closer together and which is what was anticipated based on how it was explained in advance.


----------



## shaqfor3

at 11:00 AM

MK
Big Thunder - 12:35
Buzz - 11:05 AM
Haunted Mansion - 12:30 PM
Jungle Cruise - 1:50 PM
Pooh - 11:45
Pirates-  11:40
7Dwarf (paid) - 12:20 PM
Splash - 11:55
Little Mermaid - 11:10
Barstormer - 11:05
Dumbo - 11:05
small world - 11:25
Tea Party - 11:10
Stupid Carpets - 11:30
Monsters Inc - 1PM (first show i guess)
Peter Pan - 12:45 PM
Space (paid) - 11:05 AM (i guess no one is buying)
Speedway - 11:20

Epcot
Pixar Film - 11:10 (GRAB IT GUYS BEFORE THEY ARE OUT)
Frozen (paid) - 11:40
Imagination - 11:10
LwtLand - 11:10
Mission Space - 11:20
Remy (paid) - 11:20 (kinda surprise by this one.  Are people waiting to see if they grab them at 1PM?).
Nemo - 11:10
Soarin - 12:10
Spaceship Earth - 11:10
Test Track - 3:20 (take that Soarin)
Crush - 11:30

Animal Kingdom
Animation Experience - 11:10 
Flight of Passage (paid) - 12:35
Festival of LK wannabe - 12 
DINOSAUR - 11:10 AM
Everest (paid) - 11:10
FFF - 1:00 
ITTBAB - 11:20 
Kali - 11:10
Safari - 11:15
Nap River Journey - 11:45 AM


----------



## JETSDAD

The CM in the app chat finally gave up on me.

They first said I would need to reinstall the app....I said I had done that 5-6 times already....but I did it anyways.  Still nothing.  Then they said to use the website which I told them that LL selections could not be made there.  Then they told me that Lightning Lane and Genie + are two different things. I mentioned that even within the app they are both called lightning lane, it's just a matter of one being included with G+ and the other being paid....they disagreed but I also pointed out that it doesn't make a difference because I can't select either option anyways. Then they said that they also couldn't make selections with my account so please see guest services.  So my free day is a bust.


----------



## OhDannyBoy

DoleWhipping said:


> One just appears for 7:45


----------



## LSUfan4444

In theory, I think this should work but TouringPlans said they would be testing this...

So if my wife and I both log into my MDX account but from separate devices...do you think she can try for the Remy Boarding Group at 7am while I work on Genie + and Lightening Lane?


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

shaqfor3 said:


> at 11:00 AM
> 
> MK
> Big Thunder - 12:35
> Buzz - 11:05 AM
> Haunted Mansion - 12:30 PM
> Jungle Cruise - 1:50 PM
> Pooh - 11:45
> Pirates-  11:40
> 7Dwarf (paid) - 12:20 PM
> Splash - 11:55
> Little Mermaid - 11:10
> Barstormer - 11:05
> Dumbo - 11:05
> small world - 11:25
> Tea Party - 11:10
> Stupid Carpets - 11:30
> Monsters Inc - 1PM (first show i guess)
> Peter Pan - 12:45 PM
> Space (paid) - 11:05 AM (i guess no one is buying)
> Speedway - 11:20
> 
> Epcot
> Pixar Film - 11:10 (GRAB IT GUYS BEFORE THEY ARE OUT)
> Frozen (paid) - 11:40
> Imagination - 11:10
> LwtLand - 11:10
> Mission Space - 11:20
> Remy (paid) - 11:20 (kinda surprise by this one.  Are people waiting to see if they grab them at 1PM?).
> Nemo - 11:10
> Soarin - 12:10
> Spaceship Earth - 11:10
> Test Track - 3:20 (take that Soarin)
> Crush - 11:30
> 
> Animal Kingdom
> Animation Experience - 11:10
> Flight of Passage (paid) - 12:35
> Festival of LK wannabe - 12
> DINOSAUR - 11:10 AM
> Everest (paid) - 11:10
> FFF - 1:00
> ITTBAB - 11:20
> Kali - 11:10
> Safari - 11:15
> Nap River Journey - 11:45 AM


Thanks for sharing!  That seems surprisingly good.


----------



## goofynut41

LSUfan4444 said:


> You have to change your ticket type unless you have a ticket and park reservation for today


Im not going until Dec ... I thought you could add it to your reservation?


----------



## LSUfan4444

goofynut41 said:


> Im not going until Dec ... I thought you could add it to your reservation?


You can if you wait until the day you want to add it. If you want to add it in advance you have to change your ticket type (like you would add a park hopper). It is not added to your park reservation but your actual ticket.


----------



## badinnplaid

Very specific question, but I have a trip in a couple of weeks where I'll be using comp tickets, and I don't seem to be able to add Genie+ yet. Seeing people having success adding it across all their days, but when I click on it, it just brings me to the "Tickets and Passes" page but no indication I can do anything. Anyone else having this issue?


----------



## goofynut41

LSUfan4444 said:


> You can if you wait until the day you want to add it. If you want to add it in advance you have to change your ticket type (like you would add a park hopper). It is not added to your park reservation but your actual ticket.


I have park hopper.. Military tickets


----------



## LSUfan4444

goofynut41 said:


> I have park hopper.. Military tickets


And you will have to change that to a park hopper with genie +


----------



## AnnabelleTheTalkingTree

LSUfan4444 said:


> In theory, I think this should work but TouringPlans said they would be testing this...
> 
> So if my wife and I both log into my MDX account but from separate devices...do you think she can try for the Remy Boarding Group at 7am while I work on Genie + and Lightening Lane?



I have no idea, but the idea that this would even be necessary is just ridiculous. I used to single handedly plan our trips (for my nuclear family and our extended families). This was fine because I could do it ahead of time, and then relax. Now not only will I have to be figuring all this nonsense on the fly each morning, I'll probably have to rope other members of my party into doing the same, coordinating who is "working on" what. I don't know that this is what I want my vacation to feel like.


----------



## katyringo

Questions:

120 minute rule? Whose tested it? Who has anything stacked?


----------



## DavidNYC

Garyjames220 said:


> Can someone tell me
> 
> - if I book my first genie plus ride for late afternoon can I stack them up for later in the day with out been in the park



The answer is they system allows it - whether you CAN is more problematic.  The issue is you have no control over being able to book a Genie+ ride for the late afternoon.  You may sign on at say, 11am and find the return times for the ride you were hoping to book at still at 1pm when you were hoping to book a ride at 4pm.  Hopefully, you'll be able to find something you want to ride that has a return time after you plan to arrive but who knows what time you'll need to be on your phone to get the times you want.  For example, no ride at MK has a return time later than 2pm right now and almost all are still between 11-1.   But in EPCOT Test Track is at 3:10 now so perhaps if that is where you were going you could do that and then get another in 2 hours.   So - afternoon stacking is going to take a bit or luck and phone monitoring.


----------



## MrBellatrixLestrange

shaqfor3 said:


> at 11:00 AM
> 
> MK
> Big Thunder - 12:35
> Buzz - 11:05 AM
> Haunted Mansion - 12:30 PM
> Jungle Cruise - 1:50 PM
> Pooh - 11:45
> Pirates-  11:40
> 7Dwarf (paid) - 12:20 PM
> Splash - 11:55
> Little Mermaid - 11:10
> Barstormer - 11:05
> Dumbo - 11:05
> small world - 11:25
> Tea Party - 11:10
> Stupid Carpets - 11:30
> Monsters Inc - 1PM (first show i guess)
> Peter Pan - 12:45 PM
> Space (paid) - 11:05 AM (i guess no one is buying)
> Speedway - 11:20
> 
> Epcot
> Pixar Film - 11:10 (GRAB IT GUYS BEFORE THEY ARE OUT)
> Frozen (paid) - 11:40
> Imagination - 11:10
> LwtLand - 11:10
> Mission Space - 11:20
> Remy (paid) - 11:20 (kinda surprise by this one.  Are people waiting to see if they grab them at 1PM?).
> Nemo - 11:10
> Soarin - 12:10
> Spaceship Earth - 11:10
> Test Track - 3:20 (take that Soarin)
> Crush - 11:30
> 
> Animal Kingdom
> Animation Experience - 11:10
> Flight of Passage (paid) - 12:35
> Festival of LK wannabe - 12
> DINOSAUR - 11:10 AM
> Everest (paid) - 11:10
> FFF - 1:00
> ITTBAB - 11:20
> Kali - 11:10
> Safari - 11:15
> Nap River Journey - 11:45 AM


I appreciate the info!  I think it might be more important for the times at AK at 10 though as that would seem the second opportunity for offsite guests to book another Genie+ attraction.


----------



## travelgirl77

So, I have military salute tix and I am unable to add Genie +.  Is my only option to call and wait in this hour+ phone line?  Any work arounds?


----------



## katyringo

Brooke McDonald is sharing on Instagram. Lots of good tips.

here is what she confirmed:


----------



## Disturbia

AnnabelleTheTalkingTree said:


> I have no idea, but the idea that this would even be necessary is just ridiculous. I used to single handedly plan our trips (for my nuclear family and our extended families). This was fine because I could do it ahead of time, and then relax. Now not only will I have to be figuring all this nonsense on the fly each morning, I'll probably have to rope other members of my party into doing the same, coordinating who is "working on" what. I don't know that this is what I want my vacation to feel like.


We reduced Hs to one day because BGs were too stressful and a midday break wasn’t certain.  Some days we will just pay for 2 rides and not do Genie+.


----------



## MJJME

LSUfan4444 said:


> And you will have to change that to a park hopper with genie +


But no need to do that now.....Let it play out..........Its very likely you iwll only need this for 1 or 2 parks so dont waste the $ now until you see how its going to work


----------



## Violetspider

shaqfor3 said:


> at 11:00 AM
> 
> MK
> Big Thunder - 12:35
> Buzz - 11:05 AM
> Haunted Mansion - 12:30 PM
> Jungle Cruise - 1:50 PM
> Pooh - 11:45
> Pirates-  11:40
> 7Dwarf (paid) - 12:20 PM
> Splash - 11:55
> Little Mermaid - 11:10
> Barstormer - 11:05
> Dumbo - 11:05
> small world - 11:25
> Tea Party - 11:10
> Stupid Carpets - 11:30
> Monsters Inc - 1PM (first show i guess)
> Peter Pan - 12:45 PM
> Space (paid) - 11:05 AM (i guess no one is buying)
> Speedway - 11:20
> 
> Epcot
> Pixar Film - 11:10 (GRAB IT GUYS BEFORE THEY ARE OUT)
> Frozen (paid) - 11:40
> Imagination - 11:10
> LwtLand - 11:10
> Mission Space - 11:20
> Remy (paid) - 11:20 (kinda surprise by this one.  Are people waiting to see if they grab them at 1PM?).
> Nemo - 11:10
> Soarin - 12:10
> Spaceship Earth - 11:10
> Test Track - 3:20 (take that Soarin)
> Crush - 11:30
> 
> Animal Kingdom
> Animation Experience - 11:10
> Flight of Passage (paid) - 12:35
> Festival of LK wannabe - 12
> DINOSAUR - 11:10 AM
> Everest (paid) - 11:10
> FFF - 1:00
> ITTBAB - 11:20
> Kali - 11:10
> Safari - 11:15
> Nap River Journey - 11:45 AM




Thanks, that's helpful! Now if someone could add the current wait times for each ride next to the LL return times, that would really show the whole picture. If I weren't at work right now I'd do it.

EDIT: I meant to day the "Stand-by wait times"


----------



## jlundeen

Has anyone been able to add G+ to an AP across all the days of an upcoming trip in advance?  I see I can for the other guests in my party who have dated PH tickets, but I don't see where I can add it to my AP.


----------



## LSUfan4444

AnnabelleTheTalkingTree said:


> I have no idea, but the idea that this would even be necessary is just ridiculous. I used to single handedly plan our trips (for my nuclear family and our extended families). This was fine because I could do it ahead of time, and then relax. Now not only will I have to be figuring all this nonsense on the fly each morning, I'll probably have to rope other members of my party into doing the same, coordinating who is "working on" what. I don't know that this is what I want my vacation to feel like.


Yeah, we just decided it was easier for everyone in our group to use ONE MDX account (which is mine). At times, help is definitely needed.


----------



## LSUfan4444

katyringo said:


> Questions:
> 
> 120 minute rule? Whose tested it? Who has anything stacked?


Last I saw this morning was that a second could not be added for someone who tried at 9:05 am after adding their first at 7:05.


----------



## katyringo

Looks like there is a second drop of individual LL at park opening.


----------



## snikki

katyringo said:


> Brooke McDonald is sharing on Instagram. Lots of good tips.
> 
> here is what she confirmed:



So not 9 am but 11 am. That changes things.


----------



## Disturbia

AllyGirl_79 said:


> Just wanted to add - if it hasn’t been posted yet … I have SDD booked for 12:45. I tried clicking on another option, TSMM, just to see what it looks like. It tells me I’m not eligible. But if you click on “edit” to see why you’re not eligible, it notes that everyone in my party is able to get our next LL at 11:00am. That looks like two hours past opening and lends itself to the 2 hour booking theory.
> 
> However, im still in my pajamas at Boardwalk, so the odds of me getting to DHS at 9 are very slim. Wondering if it will change based on when I go through the turnstiles?


Here is one person trying to stack; and it looks like they could but maybe didn’t try;

page 207 post no 4129


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

snikki said:


> So not 9 am but 11 am. That changes things.


Yes, huge difference


----------



## DavidNYC

Violetspider said:


> Thanks, that's helpful! Now if someone could add the current wait times for each ride next to the LL return times, that would really show the whole picture. If I weren't at work right now I'd do it.


Isn't the new "tip board" screen generally available to everyone even without a reservation or is that only showing if you have a reservation.  That screen shows standby and next LL return time for all rides.


----------



## LSUfan4444

MJJME said:


> But no need to do that now.....Let it play out..........Its very likely you iwll only need this for 1 or 2 parks so dont waste the $ now until you see how its going to work


To add G+ in advance you have to change your ticket type. I agree about not doing it in advance and would definitely just wait till the day of BUT if someone wanted to, thats how they have to do it.


----------



## katyringo

If you have Instagram go follow Brooke McDonald. She is showing how she is using genie plus and early entry in MK. She had all the mountains done by 10.  She has individual lightening lanes book in two other parks for park hoping later.


----------



## LSUfan4444

snikki said:


> So not 9 am but 11 am. That changes things.


And even longer for Epcot


----------



## MrBellatrixLestrange

DavidNYC said:


> Isn't the new "tip board" screen generally available to everyone even without a reservation or is that only showing if you have a reservation.  That screen shows standby and next LL return time for all rides.


I can see it and I'm not in a park until Sunday.


----------



## AnnabelleTheTalkingTree

DavidNYC said:


> Isn't the new "tip board" screen generally available to everyone even without a reservation or is that only showing if you have a reservation.  That screen shows standby and next LL return time for all rides.


I can see the tip board, I don’t have park reservations.


----------



## Violetspider

DavidNYC said:


> Isn't the new "tip board" screen generally available to everyone even without a reservation or is that only showing if you have a reservation.  That screen shows standby and next LL return time for all rides.


I don't have a reservation until the 25th and I can see everything for today.


----------



## snikki

katyringo said:


> If you have Instagram go follow Brooke McDonald. She is showing how she is using genie plus and early entry in MK. She had all the mountains done by 10.  She has individual lightening lanes book in two other parks for park hoping later.


 
I started following her. Very informative step by step info.


----------



## rmclain73

The stand by lines at HS are shorter than all of the next LL.


----------



## CWTC

AnnabelleTheTalkingTree said:


> Can someone confirm whether you're able to make your next reservation as soon as you tap into your current attraction, and whether that next reservation needs to be 120 minutes away.


You have to reach the second tap points.


----------



## LSUfan4444

I honestly don't think the inability to stack is that big of a deal. 

If you plan to be there early, you don't really need G+ until 11 anyway and if you don't plan to be there early, just book a later G+.

At 7, scroll and refresh until find a headliner with a return time of something like 10:20/10:30 then you're good to go.


----------



## OhDannyBoy

I've been playing with the tip board all morning and I don't have reservations until February


----------



## erionm

jlundeen said:


> Has anyone been able to add G+ to an AP across all the days of an upcoming trip in advance?  I see I can for the other guests in my party who have dated PH tickets, but I don't see where I can add it to my AP.


For APs, you can only add it day of.


----------



## disneylover102

Can anyone confirm you can only get G+ once per ride?


----------



## itf

Violetspider said:


> I don't have a reservation until the 25th and I can see everything for today.



I do have reservations (next year) but can't see the tip board at all! "Something went wrong. We were unable to populate you tip board completely. Please try again".


----------



## snikki

Seems that LL seems to be a good deal at MK. Looks like you can do back to back attractions. Even if you’re “only” saving 15-20 minutes per attraction that adds up.


----------



## DavidNYC

rmclain73 said:


> The stand by lines at HS are shorter than all of the next LL.



That's not unexpected and happens with most rides in the park outside of a few quirks.  The point of LL is so you can skip the actual standing in line - not to get on earlier in the day.


----------



## Disturbia

AnnabelleTheTalkingTree said:


> Can someone confirm whether you're able to make your next reservation as soon as you tap into your current attraction, and whether that next reservation needs to be 120 minutes away.



There was a screenshot of 2 LLIA$ and first Genie+ in the same window overlapping, a few pages back; you need to tap on second  booth it seems (we usually just go ride and then book as line moves fast) to book next Genie+


----------



## snikki

itf said:


> I do have reservations (next year) but can't see the tip board at all! "Something went wrong. We were unable to populate you tip board completely. Please try again".



I had that earlier. I had to sign in to the app again.


----------



## disneylover102

itf said:


> I do have reservations (next year) but can't see the tip board at all! "Something went wrong. We were unable to populate you tip board completely. Please try again".


I don’t have reservations at all but I can still see it


----------



## itf

snikki said:


> I had that earlier. I had to sign in to the app again.



Tried deleting and reinstalling the app, no dice.


----------



## LSUfan4444

snikki said:


> Seems that LL seems to be a good deal at MK. Looks like you can do back to back attractions. Even if you’re “only” saving 15-20 minutes per attraction that adds up.


Overall, the standby times (via touring plans) right now are really low. 

Big Thunder - 14 min
Buzz - 21 min
Haunted Mansion - 19 min
Pooh - 27 min
Pirates. - 9 min
Space - 25 min
Splash - 15 min
Speedway - 21 min

This why I think your strategy of not even using G+ until after lunch makes sense.

if you book your first one for say 12:30 pm and you added your second one in the park at 11 am for say 1 PM you could theoretically have alot of success in the morning using standby and G+ from lunch on with your ILLs in the late afternoon or evening


----------



## DavidNYC

snikki said:


> Seems that LL seems to be a good deal at MK. Looks like you can do back to back attractions. Even if you’re “only” saving 15-20 minutes per attraction that adds up.


But here's the issue . . . since you're only allowed to use LL once per ride, the question you're always going to have to ask yourself if it's a ride you think you'll want to do again is whether it makes sense to save those 15-20 minutes now or whether you think it makes sense to save it until later when standby might be a lot longer.   Just one more stress filled element to plan around!   But it does seem based on today so far that all of the regular Genie+ reservations for MK are no more than an hour or so in the future which isn't bad.   Next few hours will be interesting as  we get to more peak day crowds and see how the times change.


----------



## Jennasis

My head hurts.


----------



## TropicalDIS

itf said:


> Tried deleting and reinstalling the app, no dice.



Having the same issue


----------



## ande2428

disneylover102 said:


> Can anyone confirm you can only get G+ once per ride?


That is correct - one per ride per day


----------



## snikki

DavidNYC said:


> But here's the issue . . . since you're only allowed to use LL once per ride, the question you're always going to have to ask yourself if it's a ride you think you'll want to do again is whether it makes sense to save those 15-20 minutes now or whether you think it makes sense to save it until later when standby might be a lot longer.   Just one more stress filled element to plan around!   But it does seem based on today so far that all of the regular Genie+ reservations for MK are no more than an hour or so in the future which isn't bad.   Next few hours will be interesting as  we get to more peak day crowds and see how the times change.



If it’s something i want to reride I would ride standby and save G+ for later.


----------



## wisblue

DavidNYC said:


> Oh - I think it's straightforward.  Just not good . . . I can see exactly how it works and am just disheartened that most of the pessimistic predictions about how it takes flexibility away from many were correct.  If you're the type that is happy to just take the time they offer you for a ride and do a few during the day at your 2 hour intervals it's very straight forward.  For those who liked a bit more ability to plan their day, or not be up at 7am or not arrive at the parks until later in the day, or have more flexibility to modify plans during the day as they see how things are going or due to unexpected things that arise - you've lost a lot of that ability.
> 
> Straighforward here I don't think is a positive for anyone who didn't want to put Disney in control of their day.



The irony here is that in some ways we are going full circle back to the disagreements about FP+ several years ago. . In general, people whose approach was to be in one park all day (and knew that FP return times weren’t enforced) hated FP+. On the other hand, people who liked to rope drop one park and hop to another park later after a midday break liked FP+ because they could schedule those 3 attractions in the evening when lines were longer and paper FPs were never available.

This is much more like paper FP than FP+. But, if we can confirm that you can make a G+LL reservation before you enter that second park, that would help to mitigate the loss of FP+.  I still haven’t seen anybody report yet that they have tried that. Maybe as we get closer to the 2 PM hopping time someone can weigh in.

Based on current LL return times at Epcot and DHS, some of which aren’t much more than 30-60 minutes out, G+ might yield a few good attractions at that second park.

If I can get two quality LL attractions at each of two parks in one day, that would be more than we usually got with paper FP, and would be worth $15 to me.

BTW, we almost never care to do the same ride twice in one day, so the repeat ride restriction is of no concern to us.


----------



## itf

TropicalDIS said:


> Having the same issue



For me I have a 14 day pass, it can see my park reservations and knows I have a ticket but keeps barracking me about not having valid theme park admission.


----------



## CWTC

So our ILL$  window opens  in about 30 minute but ROTR is down.  Any word or idea what the protocol is or will be?  CMs kind of overrun at moment.


----------



## rmclain73

DavidNYC said:


> That's not unexpected and happens with most rides in the park outside of a few quirks.  The point of LL is so you can skip the actual standing in line - not to get on earlier in the day.


Not for everyone.  The point of LL for most people is to ride as many attractions in a single day like the old FP system.


----------



## peteykirch

Honestly this is going to a WiP for awhile.

They need to scratch the once you ride one ride with LL, you can't ride it again via LL. If I book Pirates at 9AM, and it's now 11AM and there is still availability through out the day, you should be able to book and re-ride.


----------



## OhDannyBoy

itf said:


> For me I have a 14 day pass, it can see my park reservations and knows I have a ticket but keeps barracking me about not having valid theme park admission.
> 
> View attachment 614619


Your date says Friday, August 19. Maybe that's too far out or something?


----------



## Violetspider

itf said:


> For me I have a 14 day pass, it can see my park reservations and knows I have a ticket but keeps barracking me about not having valid theme park admission.
> 
> View attachment 614619


Change to the Tip Board tab, not the My Day tab and then change the date to today and to the park you want to view.


----------



## Cynergy

itf said:


> For me I have a 14 day pass, it can see my park reservations and knows I have a ticket but keeps barracking me about not having valid theme park admission.
> 
> View attachment 614619


We have 8 day park hoppers for a trip 11/5-11/12. I was expecting to be able to set up some info ahead of time, but I keep getting the same error as you

Edited to add that I have changed the date, trying each day of our trip and I get the same error every time


----------



## MrBellatrixLestrange

snikki said:


> Seems that LL seems to be a good deal at MK. Looks like you can do back to back attractions. Even if you’re “only” saving 15-20 minutes per attraction that adds up.


So, and I apologize if this has already been answered, if I book one of the in-demand rides like SDD for hypothetically 5PM and then, at 11 book a less busy ride like Barnstormer (I know, wrong park) once I check in to Barnstormer can I immediately book another ride or is the fact that my SDD Genie+ selection going to prevent me since I'll have a ride scheduled and it won't have been 120 minutes since my last booking? In other words, will the app indicate I have a ride booked and it hasn't been 120 minutes since my last booking so I can't rebook until that time expires or, since I've tapped in to the second ride, I'm allowed to book another?


----------



## boop0524

Update: we have APs not activated and I can now add on Genie+ to individual days in our trip in MDX

edit: must be a glitch not working for all days… :/


----------



## DisneyFive

I found a pseudo way to refresh!!!  For a given attraction...

Say Rockin Roller Coaster at HS.  At the moment 11:49am, it had the LL availability at 2:15pm.  This is further out than I want.  I clicked the "Book Experience" button, but instead of booking it, I backed out of that screen by hitting  the little "x" in top left corner.  When the previous screen came back with all the LL attractions and times, RnRC had bumped down to a 12:15pm availability!  So you can bounce back and forth by clicking the "Book Experience" button, then back back out and see if the time changed to a better option.  It could go longer or shorter, but it does appear to be working like refresh did.  It appears to adjust the return window based on guests cancelling and windows opening up.

Once you find a time that you like, THEN book it.  You can't refresh then after you actually booked it, but instead you refreshed before you booked it.

ETA:  I just had Smugglers run bump from 6pm to 3pm doing this.  I think the more popular the attraction the more the times will jump around.  Be aware, the time may also go longer, say for Smugglers run it could change from 6:10pm to 6:20pm, but if you keep trying you may be able to snag an earlier time that pops up.  Just like my two examples.

I have to say, G+ is a HUGE improvement over only standby.  Granted, this is low crowd time, so I'll be interested to see how it works when moderate/high crowds are in the parks.
*
ETA2:  I think I found a faster, simpler way to refresh.  After doing the method I mention above one time(clicking the "Book Experience" and backing back out...)  then you can simply click the "Tip Board" at the top of the screen.  This also refreshes the times times and it's faster/easier.*

Dan


----------



## Sjm9911

AnnabelleTheTalkingTree said:


> I have no idea, but the idea that this would even be necessary is just ridiculous. I used to single handedly plan our trips (for my nuclear family and our extended families). This was fine because I could do it ahead of time, and then relax. Now not only will I have to be figuring all this nonsense on the fly each morning, I'll probably have to rope other members of my party into doing the same, coordinating who is "working on" what. I don't know that this is what I want my vacation to feel like.


Lol, this was my thoughts also. But its just me and my 10 year old. Now i will have to get her a phone. Otherwise, what happens if you break yours? You need a phone for this. But fear not, Disney will have cell phone shops in the near future.  Just wait untill you see the prices with those.


----------



## MrBellatrixLestrange

CWTC said:


> So our ILL$  window opens  in about 30 minute but ROTR is down.  Any word or idea what the protocol is or will be?  CMs kind of overrun at moment.


I feel so bad for the CMs working today.


----------



## snikki

MrBellatrixLestrange said:


> So, and I apologize if this has already been answered, if I book one of the in-demand rides like SDD for hypothetically 5PM and then, at 11 book a less busy ride like Barnstormer (I know, wrong park) once I check in to Barnstormer can I immediately book another ride or is the fact that my SDD Genie+ selection going to prevent me since I'll have a ride scheduled and it won't have been 120 minutes since my last booking? In other words, will the app indicate I have a ride booked and it hasn't been 120 minutes since my last booking so I can't rebook until that time expires or since I've tapped in to the second ride I'm allowed to book another since the existing booking was made more than 120 minutes prior.



You can continue booking after you are off barnstormer.


----------



## itf

OhDannyBoy said:


> Your date says Friday, August 19. Maybe that's too far out or something?



Entirely possible, but it will only let me view dates we have a booking for. When I hit change day, it only shows us Aug 2022, which is where we have park reservations, but then thinks we have no ticket. Maybe I'm an edge case and it'll get fixed with the next revision.


----------



## niclodn

erionm said:


> For APs, you can only add it day of.



So even if I have a resort reservation, I cannot add G+ to my AP until the day of??  That is ridiculous.


----------



## OhDannyBoy

[/QUOTE]


MrBellatrixLestrange said:


> I feel so bad for the CMs working today.


My goodness I can only imagine what they are dealing with right now.


----------



## MrBellatrixLestrange

snikki said:


> You can continue booking after you are off barnstormer.


Off Barnstormer or once I've checked in?  Thanks!


----------



## cindyfan

Totally agree with everyone that says they need to get rid of the "only once a day" thing!
If after you ride using LL ... example Thunder Mt.... if there are still times available... you should be allowed to use LL again!  that is the stupidest rule!!!  You are paying for the use of LL why not let us use it for the attractions we want regardless how many times!


----------



## MrBellatrixLestrange

My goodness I can only imagine what they are dealing with right now.
[/QUOTE]
This will probably be a day where they wonder why they took the job.


----------



## BrotherCraig

I have Genie installed.  Park tickets and onsite resort is all linked but it says I cannot purchase Genie+ until the day of my park day.  Ugh!  That is frustrating.


----------



## OhDannyBoy

MrBellatrixLestrange said:


> Off Barnstormer or once I've checked in?  Thanks!


I would guess once you checked in. That's how the FP+ refresh thing worked from what I remember.

I hope I'm right about that.


----------



## rmclain73

DisneyFive said:


> I found a pseudo way to refresh!!!  For a given attraction...
> 
> Say Rockin Roller Coaster at HS.  At the moment 11:49am, it had the LL availability at 2:15pm.  This is further out than I want.  I clicked the "Book Experience" button, but instead of booking it, I backed out of that screen by hitting  the little "x" in top left corner.  When the previous screen came back with all the LL attractions and times, RnRC had bumped down to a 12:15pm availability!  So you can bounce back and forth by clicking the "Book Experience" button, then back back out and see if the time changed to a better option.  It could go longer or shorter, but it does appear to be working like refresh did.  It appears to adjust the return window based on guests cancelling and windows opening up.
> 
> Once you find a time that you like, THEN book it.  You can't refresh then after you actually booked it, but instead you refreshed before you booked it.
> 
> Dan



Great find!  

I was able to get a better time as well.  At first I kept getting 2:25 for a return, but after doing this method a couple of times I got at 1:10pm.


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

OhDannyBoy said:


> I would guess once you checked in. That's how the FP+ refresh thing worked from what I remember.
> 
> I hope I'm right about that.


I would assume so.  They know when you check in (tap your MB), they don't necessarily know when you are off the ride.


----------



## WNYDisneyDad

Some humor in this stressful day. I found it funny Disney kept the standard Latin language that the bottom of the tip board.

For those not familiar, programmers will insert a generalized text (the Loren ipsum part) when they know text must go there, they just know what it should say yet. The inclusion somewhere usually points to a lack of quality control.


----------



## MrBellatrixLestrange

ENJDisneyFan said:


> I would assume so.  They know when you check in (tap your MB), they don't necessarily know when you are off the ride.


They will be slapping a scarlet G+ on your forehead as you depart if you used the service.


----------



## trompettecon

MJJME said:


> Has to be a Disney IT glitch.........If i had to guess, this will be corrected y tomorrow


Confused. I think Genie+  can be chose at 7h00 for everyone. You only have to wait until park opening for LL$ (if off-site)


----------



## cindyfan

DisneyFive said:


> *I found a pseudo way to refresh!!!  For a given attraction...
> 
> Say Rockin Roller Coaster at HS.  At the moment 11:49am, it had the LL availability at 2:15pm.  This is further out than I want.  I clicked the "Book Experience" button, but instead of booking it, I backed out of that screen by hitting  the little "x" in top left corner.  When the previous screen came back with all the LL attractions and times, RnRC had bumped down to a 12:15pm availability!  So you can bounce back and forth by clicking the "Book Experience" button, then back back out and see if the time changed to a better option.  It could go longer or shorter, but it does appear to be working like refresh did.  It appears to adjust the return window based on guests cancelling and windows opening up.
> 
> Once you find a time that you like, THEN book it.  You can't refresh then after you actually booked it, but instead you refreshed before you booked it.*
> 
> ETA:  I just had Smugglers run bump from 6pm to 3pm doing this.  I think the more popular the attraction the more the times will jump around.  Be aware, the time may also go longer, say for Smugglers run it could change from 6:10pm to 6:20pm, but if you keep trying you may be able to snag an earlier time that pops up.  Just like my two examples.
> 
> I have to say, G+ is a HUGE improvement over only standby.  Granted, this is low crowd time, so I'll be interested to see how it works when moderate/high crowds are in the parks.
> 
> Dan


That process is called *"Fiddle - Faddle*"!!!


----------



## KrazeeK120

WNYDisneyDad said:


> View attachment 614620
> Some humor in this stressful day. I found it funny Disney kept the standard Latin language that the bottom of the tip board.
> 
> For those not familiar, programmers will insert a generalized text (the Loren ipsum part) when they know text must go there, they just know what it should say yet. The inclusion somewhere usually points to a lack of quality control.



Mine actually has a legal disclaimer, in English. Strange!


----------



## dez1978

MJJME said:


> Offsite can book Genie+ at 7am
> 
> Offsite cannot book IAS until park opening


Question.  Are the Disney springs hotels, like Hilton LBV who get access to early entry considered on or off site for this


----------



## LSUfan4444

CWTC said:


> So our ILL$  window opens  in about 30 minute but ROTR is down.  Any word or idea what the protocol is or will be?  CMs kind of overrun at moment.


This is what I read on Twitter about that..."Rise of the Resistance is down. Guests holding Individual Lightning Lane return times during the outage *should* have an all-day return pass appear in Genie once their time hits. Guests who do not have an all-day pass are being asked to go to the Guest Exp. Team. "


----------



## DavidNYC

rmclain73 said:


> Not for everyone.  The point of LL for most people is to ride as many attractions in a single day like the old FP system.


Apples and oranges.  The point was that in most cases the standby line is always "quicker" if what you're referring to is how long from that moment you can get on a particular single ride.  The return time for most rides will be at least a little later than what the standby is.   What you're talking about is how LL (and FP) allows you to do standby on another ride or do something else while you're waiting for your return on the reserved ride.  So yes - in a day using this gets you on more rides.  That doesn't change the fact that seeing a return time 60+ minutes from now for a ride with a 45 minute standby is not odd - it's typical.  But as I noted, there will be some quirks - I could almost always with FP+, for example with refreshing, get a Small World return time for 5-10 minutes in the future even if the standby was 30+ minutes!


----------



## aviva5675

BrotherCraig said:


> I have Genie installed.  Park tickets and onsite resort is all linked but it says I cannot purchase Genie+ until the day of my park day.  Ugh!  That is frustrating.



Planning for my day next week--  where in the app do you see where to purchase the Genie+  ??  That day at midnight does something populate the app so you can purchase for that day??


----------



## LSUfan4444

DavidNYC said:


> Apples and oranges.  The point was that in most cases the standby line is always "quicker" if what you're referring to is how long from that moment you can get on a particular single ride.  The return time for most rides will be at least a little later than what the standby is.   What you're talking about is how LL (and FP) allows you to do standby on another ride or do something else while you're waiting for your return on the reserved ride.  So yes - in a day using this gets you on more rides.  That doesn't change the fact that seeing a return time 60+ minutes from now for a ride with a 45 minute standby is not odd - it's typical.  But as I noted, there will be some quirks - I could almost always with FP+, for example with refreshing, get a Small World return time for 5-10 minutes in the future even if the standby was 30+ minutes!


The biggest mistake people will make with G+ is trying to use it to save time on attractions before it's really needed. Success with this platform will not be found by how many LL's someone can grab but rather grabbing the ones that save you the most time for the best attractions at the most popular times of the day.


----------



## DavidNYC

cindyfan said:


> Totally agree with everyone that says they need to get rid of the "only once a day" thing!
> If after you ride using LL ... example Thunder Mt.... if there are still times available... you should be allowed to use LL again!  that is the stupidest rule!!!  You are paying for the use of LL why not let us use it for the attractions we want regardless how many times!


I don't like for me personally it but I at least understand the rationale behind it.  It may not be advantageous for some - but it's far from "stupid".  Allowing for repeated use will cause the return times to get exhausted much faster.  Their goal is to allow as many different people to be able to use LL on each attraction.   Taking your "you paid for it" argument - there are lots of other people who paid for it as well and the system won't work if there are too many rides that have all return times exhausted too early.  For some rides like SDD it's going to happen anyway - but it would happen with a lot more rides if they offered rerides wtih LL.  They need to make sure people who are there later in the day get priority to use LL over someone who's already ridden it.


----------



## BrotherCraig

aviva5675 said:


> Planning for my day next week--  where in the app do you see where to purchase the Genie+  ??  That day at midnight does something populate the app so you can purchase for that day??



In the app, I click on My Day tab.  Scroll down the park day and a purple bar with Genie+ should be there.  Click on "Get Disney Genie+ Service".


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

snikki said:


> Seems that LL seems to be a good deal at MK. Looks like you can do back to back attractions. Even if you’re “only” saving 15-20 minutes per attraction that adds up.


On a random Tuesday in October when Disney is having well below normal attendance issues.


----------



## Didi8367

rmclain73 said:


> Not for everyone.  The point of LL for most people is to ride as many attractions in a single day like the old FP system.



Totally agree with this. For me the benefit of LL/FP is being able to ride as many rides as possible while I’m in the park. I don’t mind waiting in reasonable standby lines. (Understanding that what’s reasonable to me might not be reasonable to you.). I just want to be able to avoid massive day-killer lines. Which FP allowed me to do. I always thought of it as an efficiency tool—something that allowed me to get the most bang from my Disney buck. For us, that’s riding as many rides as possible at least once, not avoiding lines completely.


----------



## MrBellatrixLestrange

WNYDisneyDad said:


> View attachment 614620
> Some humor in this stressful day. I found it funny Disney kept the standard Latin language that the bottom of the tip board.
> 
> For those not familiar, programmers will insert a generalized text (the Loren ipsum part) when they know text must go there, they just know what it should say yet. The inclusion somewhere usually points to a lack of quality control.


You aren't seeing dead people, are you?


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

MrBellatrixLestrange said:


> So, and I apologize if this has already been answered, if I book one of the in-demand rides like SDD for hypothetically 5PM and then, at 11 book a less busy ride like Barnstormer (I know, wrong park) once I check in to Barnstormer can I immediately book another ride or is the fact that my SDD Genie+ selection going to prevent me since I'll have a ride scheduled and it won't have been 120 minutes since my last booking? In other words, will the app indicate I have a ride booked and it hasn't been 120 minutes since my last booking so I can't rebook until that time expires or, since I've tapped in to the second ride, I'm allowed to book another?


This is an important question that I don’t htink anyone can have the ansewr to yet, since it’s only noon on day one.  Hard for this scenario to have happened yet.


----------



## LSUfan4444

Didi8367 said:


> For me the benefit of LL/FP is being able to ride as many rides as possible while I’m in the park.


Just remember that you don't NEED to use G+ on all of them to save time.


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

MrBellatrixLestrange said:


> Off Barnstormer or once I've checked in?  Thanks!


Once you’ve tapped in.


----------



## davidbridgman

I am also wondering about this.



travelgirl77 said:


> So, I have military salute tix and I am unable to add Genie +.  Is my only option to call and wait in this hour+ phone line?  Any work arounds?


----------



## Didi8367

LSUfan4444 said:


> Just remember that you don't NEED to use G+ on all of them to save time.



Definitely not all of them. But for sure the more popular ones. If I can grab a LL for something like Haunted Mansion, say. And that LL is an hour and a half in the future, I can spend that hour and a half knocking out several other rides on my list that have only 20-30 min standby waits, then skip a 50-60 min wait at HM. For me, that’s a win and worth the $$.


----------



## torchlight

Question here that I haven't seen an answer to yet, please:

For guests that are staying onsite and therefore have access to the 30-minute Early Entry. If you get on Genie immediately at 7 AM to book a Genie+ reservation (not the paid one) - are there Genie+ times available to reserve during the 30-minute Early Entry, or are the earliest Genie+ times going to be after full park opening?


----------



## NJlauren

So I have an AP but my daughter does not.  I was going to purchase her a ticket with G+ and add to me on the day we arrive.  But I saw a few people comment we all need the same ticket type… am I better off getting her a regular ticket and adding to both of us on arrival day? Trip isn’t till January so have some time


----------



## whiporee

JOOC, how has the virtual queues with G+ worked so far? How long are the wait times for Mine Train if you G+ it?


----------



## OhDannyBoy

LSUfan4444 said:


> The biggest mistake people will make with G+ is trying to use it to save time on attractions before it's really needed. Success with this platform will not be found by how many LL's someone can grab but rather grabbing the ones that save you the most time for the best attractions at the most popular times of the day.


I don't see me using this for anything less than 30 minutes and honestly not before noon.

My party has a lot of little ones in it so we like riding the small rides a few times and we always RD as we are a morning people. I can see us using G+ for stuff we want to ride again when it gets busy. Or is the grown ups want to saddle grandmas and grandpas with the kids, using it for something with Mountain in the title.

Availability for the things we usually ride seems workable. At least on a Tuesday.  I want to check back in this weekend to see how that goes.


----------



## CWTC

LSUfan4444 said:


> This is what I read on Twitter about that..."Rise of the Resistance is down. Guests holding Individual Lightning Lane return times during the outage *should* have an all-day return pass appear in Genie once their time hits. Guests who do not have an all-day pass are being asked to go to the Guest Exp. Team. "


Our original window was 1225-125.  Around 1215 we got an alert it had been converted to an anytime and were going to ask for a refund. Overheard someone say it was back up - we were already in Batuu.  Ended up tapping in at 1226.


----------



## MrBellatrixLestrange

It appears the RotR standby time is 120 minutes, could that be the people they let remain in the line during the stoppage or has it already just exploded with people hoping to get on?


----------



## LSUfan4444

Didi8367 said:


> Definitely not all of them. But for sure the more popular ones. If I can grab a LL for something like Haunted Mansion, say. And that LL is an hour and a half in the future, I can spend that hour and a half knocking out several other rides on my list that have only 20-30 min standby waits, then skip a 50-60 min wait at HM. For me, that’s a win and worth the $$.


As even with FP+ it could largely depend on the time of day.

This morning for example, about an hour ago, Haunted Mansion was a 20 minute standby wait. Right now, it's posted 45 and actual 25 so split the difference and say 30. I'd be willing to bet, in another hour that standby will grow to or past 40.

The key to having the most success and riding the most rides will be in WHEN you book your G+ not how many you book.


----------



## MJJME

torchlight said:


> Question here that I haven't seen an answer to yet, please:
> 
> For guests that are staying onsite and therefore have access to the 30-minute Early Entry. If you get on Genie immediately at 7 AM to book a Genie+ reservation (not the paid one) - are there Genie+ times available to reserve during the 30-minute Early Entry, or are the earliest Genie+ times going to be after full park opening?


Genie+ begins at park opening, not early entry......early entry is all standby


----------



## rmclain73

Refresh on this is your best friend.  I have been playing with it for a while now and you can most defiantly get much sooner return times.  The catch is you have to do this BEFORE you book it.


----------



## Sakurachaek

Any need to get this if you already have DAS?


----------



## nurseberta

RamieGee said:


> So, FYI, LL times can fluctuate backwards.
> 
> At 9:11am it was a 6:40pm return time
> At 9:22am it was a 4:55pm return time


 I wonder if this is just a random way to spread out the crowd. there could be an algorithm or it could be at random so as to not prompt all guests to the same rides at the same time


----------



## Didi8367

LSUfan4444 said:


> As even with FP+ it could largely depend on the time of day.
> 
> This morning for example, about an hour ago, Haunted Mansion was a 20 minute standby wait. Right now, it's posted 45 and actual 25 so split the difference and say 30. I'd be willing to bet, in another hour that standby will grow to or past 40.
> 
> The key to having the most success and riding the most rides will be in WHEN you book your G+ not how many you book.



When I did a test run earlier, HM was at 55 minutes, so that’s what I was going off of in my example. 

In any case, we’ve used it very efficiently when we’ve had occasions to (have experience with original paper FP at both WDW and DL, FP+ v1.0 at WDW and MaxPass at DL). We RD and ride standby in the morning and then use the FP system strategically in the afternoon. We’ve had many enjoyable Disney vacays that way and I imagine we’ll continue to do so.


----------



## DavidNYC

LSUfan4444 said:


> As even with FP+ it could largely depend on the time of day.
> 
> This morning for example, about an hour ago, Haunted Mansion was a 20 minute standby wait. Right now, it's posted 45 and actual 25 so split the difference and say 30. I'd be willing to bet, in another hour that standby will grow to or past 40.
> 
> The key to having the most success and riding the most rides will be in WHEN you book your G+ not how many you book.



And that's the key - it's whole new system and the best practices for getting the most out of it won't be known until we have a bit more data (and which will vary during different parts of the year).   For the "power users" this will be a constant balance between whether it makes more sense to use something now or wait until later when it might save more time.  But - there is only so long you can wait without running the risk of running out of time on the day and leaving some possible ride reservations "on the table".   (And this is why I've said this system hasn't reduced the planning stress - it's just moved it from before your trip to each day of your trip . . .).    The casual visitor who never planned will proabably like this new system - those who planned and knew how to maximize their day before probably will not.


----------



## MainMom

snikki said:


> So not 9 am but 11 am. That changes things.


This is awful for the way we do the parks. Not a fan at all.


----------



## LiamsDISMom

badinnplaid said:


> Very specific question, but I have a trip in a couple of weeks where I'll be using comp tickets, and I don't seem to be able to add Genie+ yet. Seeing people having success adding it across all their days, but when I click on it, it just brings me to the "Tickets and Passes" page but no indication I can do anything. Anyone else having this issue?



I asked this question in a chat and was told comp tickets cannot add Genie+ ahead of time, but will be able to purchase sane day Genie+ in app.


----------



## MainMom

LSUfan4444 said:


> I honestly don't think the inability to stack is that big of a deal.
> 
> If you plan to be there early, you don't really need G+ until 11 anyway and if you don't plan to be there early, just book a later G+.
> 
> At 7, scroll and refresh until find a headliner with a return time of something like 10:20/10:30 then you're good to go.


We always take an afternoon break. Not being able to book at second until 11am is terrible.


----------



## Violetspider

Sakurachaek said:


> Any need to get this if you already have DAS?


I wouldn't, but you might consider an ILL$ purchase for ROTR or FOP if the wait times are extremely long. You can't get any of the ILL$ rides during the new DAS (2 per day) pre-booking face-time interview, so saving the money on G+ for a few ILL$ purchases might be money better spent.


----------



## Sakurachaek

Violetspider said:


> I wouldn't, but you might consider an ILL$ purchase for ROTR or FOP if the wait times are extremely long. You can't get any of the ILL$ rides during the new DAS (2 per day) pre-booking face-time interview, so saving the money on G+ for a few ILL$ purchases might be money better spent.


Okay, thanks, sounds good cuz I’m absolutely desperate to go on those rides.


----------



## Cynergy

Cynergy said:


> We have 8 day park hoppers for a trip 11/5-11/12. I was expecting to be able to set up some info ahead of time, but I keep getting the same error as you
> 
> Edited to add that I have changed the date, trying each day of our trip and I get the same error every time



Just checked again and it appears to be working now


----------



## shaqfor3

Its 12:52 PM 

Remi's ILL$ is currently for 1:20 PM.   I want to see how that changes after the second Virtual Queue Enrollment.  I hope this trend continues and people can wait until 1PM and grab the paid if they didnt got one (or like it so mush that want a second try).


----------



## lostprincess_danie

Note, I do not have tickets for today but am playing around with the app. (1) On the tip board, is there any way to sort by next available LL time or is it only alphabetical attraction name order?
(2) Or sort by standby time in the tip board.
 I know this option can still be done by viewing the map, then selecting view list, but not very convenient to back out of genie if I just want to see the lower waits.


----------



## CWTC

CWTC said:


> Our original window was 1225-125.  Around 1215 we got an alert it had been converted to an anytime and were going to ask for a refund. Overheard someone say it was back up - we were already in Batuu.  Ended up tapping in at 1226.


 Off ride and in line for drinks at tap house by 1256pm.


----------



## LSUfan4444

MainMom said:


> We always take an afternoon break. Not being able to book at second until 11am is terrible.


This should work great for you. All of your G+ and ILLs can be after lunch and your mornings can be standby


----------



## Jrb1979

LSUfan4444 said:


> The biggest mistake people will make with G+ is trying to use it to save time on attractions before it's really needed. Success with this platform will not be found by how many LL's someone can grab but rather grabbing the ones that save you the most time for the best attractions at the most popular times of the day.


To make the most out of Genie+ and get your money's worth it's about quantity not quality. If all you use it for is 3 headliners and use standby for the rest then it's not worth $15.


----------



## MJJME

Jrb1979 said:


> To make the most out of Genie+ and get your money's worth it's about quantity not quality. If all you use it for is 3 headliners and use standby for the rest then it's not worth $15.


Ummmmmm

Id say exact opposite........Other than the top 3 rides, theres barely any wait times in 3 of the 4 parks


----------



## LSUfan4444

Jrb1979 said:


> To make the most out of Genie+ and get your money's worth it's about quantity not quality. If all you use it for is 3 headliners and use standby for the rest then it's not worth $15.



If it saves you the most amount of time in line, why is it not worth it? What difference does it make if you only use it a couple times a day if it saved you as much (or more) time in line?


----------



## MJJME

MJJME said:


> Ummmmmm
> 
> Id say exact opposite........Other than the top 3, theres barely any wait time at all in 3 of the 4 parks


----------



## DisneyFive

Just like with FP, we will use G+ for both quantity and quality of attractions.  We will learn how to maximize it.

Dan


----------



## snikki

Jrb1979 said:


> To make the most out of Genie+ and get your money's worth it's about quantity not quality. If all you use it for is 3 headliners and use standby for the rest then it's not worth $15.



Saving 3-4 hours for 3 rides is better than saving  2 hours for ten rides with ten minutes waits for me. I probably won’t even bother with G+ at RD.


----------



## LSUfan4444

This is the exact reason why I think day of purchase rather than a ticket add on is the best bet.


----------



## MainMom

LSUfan4444 said:


> This should work great for you. All of your G+ and ILLs can be after lunch and your mornings can be standby


It really doesn’t. I’m not buying ILLs. We tend to park hop for dinner and fireworks not more rides. We tour hard in the morning with a plan. I have stated all along I intensely dislike the idea of having to be glued to my phone all day. Waiting for a time to drop or refreshing. Getting multiple genie+ for rides like dumbo and small world don’t cut it for me.


----------



## CWTC

I don’t know if it’s been posted but I can confirm stacking. At 11am, we booked TT for 330-430. At 1pm, we were able to book another LL but we’re at DHS having cocktails so didn’t bother to do so.


----------



## cindyfan

DavidNYC said:


> I don't like for me personally it but I at least understand the rationale behind it.  It may not be advantageous for some - but it's far from "stupid".  Allowing for repeated use will cause the return times to get exhausted much faster.  Their goal is to allow as many different people to be able to use LL on each attraction.   Taking your "you paid for it" argument - there are lots of other people who paid for it as well and the system won't work if there are too many rides that have all return times exhausted too early.  For some rides like SDD it's going to happen anyway - but it would happen with a lot more rides if they offered rerides wtih LL.  They need to make sure people who are there later in the day get priority to use LL over someone who's already ridden it.


The point is.... it is still available!  which means everyone already has the opportunity to get it also.  If others choose to ride 5 different attractions.. that is their choice.  But there are people/families that choose to do 2 rides multiple times.  Why not? 
Why should someone that has been there since opening be forced to wait until a late arriving person gets a chance to use it?? 
There is no reason to limit it to once.... IMHO!!


----------



## MainMom

MJJME said:


> Ummmmmm
> 
> Id say exact opposite........Other than the top 3 rides, theres barely any wait times in 3 of the 4 parks


Which makes it not worth it in my eyes.


----------



## CravesDisney

LSUfan4444 said:


> This should work great for you. All of your G+ and ILLs can be after lunch and your mornings can be standby



I agree. I think rope droppers will be rewarded because they can cut the standbys at rope drop and then add late morning or afternoon G+ and LL. During the down time between rope drop and G+/LL times, hit up the smaller rides with shorter standbys and lunch (with mobile order and shorter waits). I am actually very excited about it.


----------



## LSUfan4444

MainMom said:


> It really doesn’t. I’m not buying ILLs




So you can RD or virtual queue those attractions and standby everything else before lunch. Book your first G+ at 7 am and your second at 11 am and when you walk in the park in the afternoon your equipped with two LL entrances via your G+ purchase and can book more as soon as you use your first.

This is basically the same strategy as booking all your FP+ after your mid day break.



MainMom said:


> I have stated all along I intensely dislike the idea of having to be glued to my phone all day.




You won't have to...thats the beauty of this for you (and me too because I tour the same day).  It doesnt matter what happens in the morning. Go hog wild in the morning, keep your phone in your pocket or backpack and don't even worry about your second G+ until 11 am. You have HOURS at rope drop before your break to knock down headliners.



MainMom said:


> Getting multiple genie+ for rides like dumbo and small world don’t cut it for me.



And it shouldn't. Don't make them for those attractions.


----------



## Suzabella

I apologize now. I didn't go back and read all the posts but has anyone mentioned the fact that you'll have to pay tax on top of your purchase for Genie+ and your ILL$?  Genie+ will actually cost $15.98 pp/pd.


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

MJJME said:


> Ummmmmm
> 
> Id say exact opposite........Other than the top 3 rides, theres barely any wait times in 3 of the 4 parks


On a random Tuesday in October during historically low crowd levels for Disney because of Covid.  It's not going to stay that way.


----------



## Jrb1979

snikki said:


> Saving 3-4 hours for 3 rides is better than saving  2 hours for ten rides with ten minutes waits for me. I won’t even bother with G+ at RD.


I would never pay $15 for 3 rides. 

This isn't meant towards you. This discussion is proving Disney is right. People are happy with 3 LL a day.


----------



## BrotherCraig

For those having issues added Genie+, someone helped me to get it added.  I had to log into the MDE online and go to My Plans - Change Tickets.  I scrolled down to Genie+ and added.  It rang up the total correctly w/tax and I paid for it.  Done.


----------



## Brewerfan101

CWTC said:


> I don’t know if it’s been posted but I can confirm stacking. At 11am, we booked TT for 330-430. At 1pm, we were able to book another LL but we’re at DHS having cocktails so didn’t bother to do so.


I assume you could have looked for some other attraction that was available prior to your 330 - 430 if you had exercised that (and weren't at DHS)?  Further, if you did book something else prior to your 330 - 430, I assume once you tapped in to that earlier attraction, you could have searched LL again?


----------



## LSUfan4444

Jrb1979 said:


> I would never pay $15 for 3 rides.
> 
> This isn't meant towards you. This discussion is proving Disney is right. People are happy with 3 LL a day.


So you would pay for it so long as you used it on 6 rides even if it meant the same or more time standing in line but more time on your phone?


----------



## DavidNYC

cindyfan said:


> The point is.... it is still available!  which means everyone already has the opportunity to get it also.  If others choose to ride 5 different attractions.. that is their choice.  But there are people/families that choose to do 2 rides multiple times.  Why not?
> Why should someone that has been there since opening be forced to wait until a late arriving person gets a chance to use it??
> There is no reason to limit it to once.... IMHO!!


Um - no.   You don't seem to understand how the system works.  Not everyone has had the chance to get it yet.   You get one ride at a time.  It will take you the better part of day to get through all of the rides.  You seem to want a system that benefits you to the detriment of everyone else who paid the same amount you did simply because you choose to be in the park earlier.  A family that wants to do a ride a 2nd time after using LL can get on line like everyone else.  I could use your rationale to say that purchase limits on items are stupid.  I mean if they're "still available" . . . .  Disney has decided to make a system to allow the largest number of people to be able to ride each attraction.  You just want a system that allows you to ride whatever attraction you want as many times as you want even if it means someone else won't get to ride.  As I said - you may not like it - but saying it's stupid and there's no reason for it is just amazingly selfish.  There is an exceptionally easy to understand reason for this which I don't think is lost on most everyone else who understands the phrase "you've already had your turn".


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

Brewerfan101 said:


> Further, if you did book something else prior to your 330 - 430, I assume once you tapped in to that earlier attraction, you could have searched LL again?


Nobody knows the answer to this yet.  At least nobody has tested this yet because it's probably still too early in the day for this to have happened.


----------



## DisneyKidds

boilermakeric said:


> Pretty much!  Just confirmed 7DMT did the same thing... widespread ILL$ timeslots available again starting as soon as 9:15 EST


So, maybe there’s no real benefit to getting up to snag a LL return between 7am and 9am?  The best way I’d see using this whole G+/ILL$ thing is real time….get to the ride and if standby is too long see what’s available for purchase??  Perhaps Disney is trying to encourage that kind of real time use???


----------



## Joeboo25

nurseberta said:


> I wonder if this is just a random way to spread out the crowd. there could be an algorithm or it could be at random so as to not prompt all guests to the same rides at the same time


That seems likely to me. Genie+ is supposed to have a certain amount of AI involved and the whole point seems to be spreading out the crowd. FOP lines get huge at RD, but imagine how short they would be if the whole day's worth of people were averaged out from open to close?


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

So basically what I'm getting from today (a very low crowd day, probably a 1), is that on a moderate to high crowd day getting a SDD LL at 7 am is going to be of similar difficulty to getting a ROTR boarding group last year.  They will probably all be gone in seconds.


----------



## Sunelis

My tip board - "something went wrong".  Update the app. log off/on the app, reboot phone, uninstall reinstall app.
Still having the same issue. Any of you have any tricks I forgot to try to resolve the issue?


----------



## LSUfan4444

AnnaKristoff2013 said:


> So basically what I'm getting from today (a very low crowd day, probably a 1), is that on a moderate to high crowd day getting a SDD LL at 7 am is going to be of similar difficulty to getting a ROTR boarding group last year.  They will probably all be gone in seconds.


Depends on the quantity they release at that time. One thing we do know from day 1 is that they have the ability to not release all reservations at 7 am. The tech is there for a staggered release.

Another thing to remember is VQ's were free, this is not. That will matter. There is excitement today. Bloggers are everywhere. People want to take part of the new shiny thing and the cost is low. That may not be the case on Thanksgiving Day.


----------



## JETSDAD

LSUfan4444 said:


> So you would pay for it so long as you used it on 6 rides even if it meant the same or more time standing in line but more time on your phone?


I want to use it for all rides....like I did with FP.  I don't want to be in standby at all.  I'm not one that is happy just because a wait is 'only 30 minutes'. Yes, I would use FP on Barnstormer if it meant saving 5 minutes....I would also use it on top rides over and over.  Why must it be either quantity or quality?


----------



## JETSDAD

Sunelis said:


> My tip board - "something went wrong".  Update the app. log off/on the app, reboot phone, uninstall reinstall app.
> Still having the same issue. Any of you have any tricks I forgot to try to resolve the issue?


Mine is the same...it doesn't work at all for me and I've reinstalled 10+ times today.  I have Genie + today and can't to anything with it (thankfully it was free).


----------



## DavidNYC

Jrb1979 said:


> I would never pay $15 for 3 rides.
> 
> This isn't meant towards you. This discussion is proving Disney is right. People are happy with 3 LL a day.


Although at least based on MK times today, it seems people can easily get 6-10 rides using LL.  Returns times have consistently been under 2 hours with many in the 45-90 minute range.  I would think that most people who were in the park all day today would be able to do most all of the LL rides using LL over the course of the day.  We'll see if that holds up but that's not bad.  I still take issue with not being able to pick your return times, the inflexibility for those who aren't there all day, and the ILL rides but at least the return times for most rides aren't bad.  DHS looks like it'll be a nightmare however . . . .


----------



## leeniewdw

Apologies if this has been answered (somewhere), but can you easily add your 'group' to a IA$ selection?   Basically we are traveling with adult children and footing the bill (we each have our own rooms but they are tied to my CC).  If my CC card is tied to their MDE (or Genie) I presume anything purchased will hit me.  But can I make the selections for others in my F&F that include paid attractions?   I could see that it might not work that way because making a free FP selection for your group is a bit different than committing to a paid ride.  But in this case, we're paying for all of it, so want to see how "easy" it will be to keep us all on the same time schedule.


----------



## Jrb1979

LSUfan4444 said:


> So you would pay for it so long as you used it on 6 rides even if it meant the same or more time standing in line but more time on your phone?


It doesn't bother me to be on my phone when I am at the parks.  I do it know when I'm in queues. "Family time" for my family doesn't happen while waiting to ride a ride.


----------



## MainMom

DavidNYC said:


> Although at least based on MK times today, it seems people can easily get 6-10 rides using LL.  Returns times have consistently been under 2 hours with many in the 45-90 minute range.  I would think that most people who were in the park all day today would be able to do most all of the LL rides using LL over the course of the day.  We'll see if that holds up but that's not bad.  I still take issue with not being able to pick your return times, the inflexibility for those who aren't there all day, and the ILL rides but at least the return times for most rides aren't bad.  DHS looks like it'll be a nightmare however . . . .


But what rides are they?


----------



## LSUfan4444

JETSDAD said:


> Why must it be either quantity or quality?



You can't use it on tope rides over and over. You get one ride so unless you only wanted to do everything once, you're going to be disappointed. Standby lines are unavoidable so if you're basing success of G+ based on the ability to skip them altogether by gathering as many G+ as possible, you're going to be really really let down.

FP+ is not an option....it's a ghost. It's G+ and ILL or nothing. So you can base your judgement on the current reality of what is offered or what was.

All I am saying is, different people can book varying amounts of G+, to the same attractions and wait the same time in line. 
There will be no direct correlation between _____ G+ and saving the most time in line. Yes, sometimes booking more may end up saving guests more time in line but there will be no magic number that correlates to a mendoza line for G+ value.


----------



## LSUfan4444

Jrb1979 said:


> It doesn't bother me to be on my phone when I am at the parks.  I do it know when I'm in queues. "Family time" for my family doesn't happen while waiting to ride a ride.


Okay....So you would pay for it so long as you used it on 6 rides even if it meant the same or more time standing in line?


----------



## kmrobins03

erionm said:


> For APs, you can only add it day of.



I have an AP and a disney resort reservation for December. I went through the Genie app and received this message (look at the bottom)
“Your admission type is not eligible to be modified pre-arrival”


----------



## Jrb1979

LSUfan4444 said:


> Okay....So you would pay for it so long as you used it on 6 rides even if it meant the same or more time standing in line?


How would I be spending more time in line using G+? Odds are you will be saving time waiting for the majority of rides.


----------



## jecarnl

Disney is destroying the idea of what a vacation is IMO. They have defiantly destroyed any enjoyment that I once had at the parks.


----------



## Stefne

So I added Genie+ to our park tickets for our upcoming trip and this is now what my 7 day park hopper, genie+ tickets look like in my plans.  Should I be concerned ?


----------



## wisblue

This should be a no brainer, but can someone confIrm that, when you make a G+LL selection or purchase an IALL reservation, the system lets you exclude members of your group from the selection.


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

leeniewdw said:


> Apologies if this has been answered (somewhere), but can you easily add your 'group' to a IA$ selection?   Basically we are traveling with adult children and footing the bill (we each have our own rooms but they are tied to my CC).  If my CC card is tied to their MDE (or Genie) I presume anything purchased will hit me.  But can I make the selections for others in my F&F that include paid attractions?   I could see that it might not work that way because making a free FP selection for your group is a bit different than committing to a paid ride.  But in this case, we're paying for all of it, so want to see how "easy" it will be to keep us all on the same time schedule.


I'm going to piggyback off this question.  I am travelling in december with my wife and kids.  I have an annual pass, but they all have regular tickets.  Am I going to have issues making a group for all of us to do LL selections if we have different ticket types?  That's going to be a real problem if so.


----------



## wisblue

NM


----------



## PaladinButters

cindyfan said:


> Why should someone that has been there since opening be forced to wait until a late arriving person gets a chance to use it??



I agree with this in theory, but the problem is it’s $15. $15 dollars buys you one shot at everything.
You want the unlimited rides option - well they have that at a lot of other parks and it’s like $100 - $250 dollars a day depending on the park. Disney did not go that route (yet).
Now it sucks completely that this is no longer free at all but comparatively to the market it makes sense that something so much cheaper gets you so much less.


----------



## DisneyFive

Has anyone confirmed a return grace window? Can you still tap in five minutes before your window?

Dan


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

Stefne said:


> So I added Genie+ to our park tickets for our upcoming trip and this is now what my 7 day park hopper, genie+ tickets look like in my plans.  Should I be concerned?
> View attachment 614638


Lol, seems fairly straightforward to me.  You've got clone of 30 tickets, ATS variety.  What's the confusion?


----------



## LSUfan4444

Jrb1979 said:


> How would I be spending more time in line using G+? Odds are you will be saving time waiting for the majority of rides.



All depends on what is available to book later in the day when actual standby times aren't 20 minutes and under. Saving 5 minutes on one attraction at 10:30 am could cost you 20+ minutes at an attraction later.


----------



## DavidNYC

MainMom said:


> But what rides are they?


For MK - every ride that has LL other than Jungle Cruise which just crept over 2 hours.  Everything else is 2 hours or less.  Big Thunder is only a little over a hour, Pirates under an hour, many of the slow rides in the 30 minute range. . ..


----------



## katyringo

CWTC said:


> I don’t know if it’s been posted but I can confirm stacking. At 11am, we booked TT for 330-430. At 1pm, we were able to book another LL but we’re at DHS having cocktails so didn’t bother to do so.


YASS thanks for  sharing. This is where it's at folks! If you come to the parks late or take afternoon breaks this is the info you want.


----------



## katyringo

DisneyFive said:


> Has anyone confirmed a return grace window? Can you still tap in five minutes before your window?
> 
> confirmed via bloggers on Instagram. 5 minute early works!
> 
> Dan


----------



## Jrb1979

LSUfan4444 said:


> All depends on what is available to book later in the day when actual standby times aren't 20 minutes and under. Saving 5 minutes on one attraction at 10:30 am could cost you 20+ minutes at an attraction later.


That's if you use standby. I would try to use G+ for every ride. If the wait is longer then 20 minutes I skip it.


----------



## wishicouldgomoreofte

shaqfor3 said:


> So Rise of the Resistance Individual Passes were Out at 9:30 AM
> 
> Slinky Dog Dash is also out of LL for those who have Genie+.  (I recheck and now appears that they are back on up to 7PM).
> 
> Seem like DHS is the park that is getting hit hard
> 
> at 11AM
> 
> *** - 12 PM
> MMRR - 12:40 PM
> MFSR - 4PM
> Muppet - 11:10 AM
> RnRC - 1:10 PM
> SDD - 7:05 (it was showing out for me some minutes ago)
> Star Tours - 11:30 AM
> RotR - Not currently offered
> TMM - 12:45PM
> ToT - 12:45PM


Where is the current list of abbreviations and acronyms?


----------



## OhDannyBoy

DisneyFive said:


> Has anyone confirmed a return grace window? Can you still tap in five minutes before your window?
> 
> Dan


This is what I'd like to know.


----------



## Wood Nymph

DavidNYC said:


> OK - so under “My Day” it shows six recommendations.  I see now way to get a list of all rides or - if an ILL doesn’t happen to show in your recommendations, there seems no way to see it.  Is there a screen somewhere I’m missing???  Just show me a list of all wait times and lightning lane returns and which rides have ILL … I thought it was there this morning but gone now.





CWTC said:


> Anyone figure out how to get a LL in another park post 2pm?  I can’t figure out how to add another park - just change.
> 
> thanks!





Cliffside said:


> Don’t know if it was posted..where do you see wait times on the Ap if you do are not in the park..trying to get a sense of what they are like. Who knows if they will be correct?


You can use the map to see what wait times are for all rides. When you click on a particular ride it will take you to the lightening lane options. The bottom icon, second from the left, is the map icon.


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

OhDannyBoy said:


> This is what I'd like to know.


I would bet that the grace period for ILL$ will be a lot longer then 20 minutes.  Otherwise guest services is going to get deluged by people who are delayed by disney transportation/etc.


----------



## DavidNYC

PaladinButters said:


> I agree with this in theory, but the problem is it’s $15. $15 dollars buys you one shot at everything.
> You want the unlimited rides option - well they have that at a lot of other parks and it’s like $100 - $250 dollars a day depending on the park. Disney did not go that route (yet).
> Now it sucks completely that this is no longer free at all but comparatively to the market it makes sense that something so much cheaper gets you so much less.


Well - they have.  It's called a VIP tour.  It's a lot more expensive but they have it.  She also misunderstands how this works.  No one has to wait to ride again until others have used LL.  You just cannot use the LL again because they want everyone to have a turn to use it.  When it was free and you could pick your times that was one thing.  But now that it's paid and times are assigned - you need to put in place things to ensure that the experience remains at least somewhat uniform.  What the poster wanted would result in many people asking why someone else who paid the same as them were allowed to ride 5 times and now there is no more availability for them.


----------



## katyringo

OhDannyBoy said:


> This is what I'd like to know.


 Bloggers on Instagram have confirmed this to be true. You can tap in 5 minutes before.


----------



## StarrySkye21

If they would change the colors of the ILL$ options, or separate them from the rest of the options, that would really help. It’s really confusing when everything says the word lightning lane.


----------



## DisneyKidds

RedmonFamily said:


> View attachment 614574
> 1 hour past park opening slinky dog is gone. Refresh is the only option now.


Star Tours 75 minutes?  Ouch, and no thank you!


----------



## teeeera

I'm sorry if this has been asked already, but if I am buying ILL for Remy, can I pick an evening time? I have a park reservation for Epcot, but we usually don't go into the parks until 4 or 5pm.


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

wishicouldgomoreofte said:


> Where is the current list of abbreviations and acronyms?


MMRR - 12:40 PM (Mickey & Minnie's Runaway Railway)
MFSR - 4PM (Millennium Falcon Smuggler's Run)
Muppet - 11:10 AM
RnRC - 1:10 PM (Rock n' Roller Coaster)
SDD - 7:05 (it was showing out for me some minutes ago) (Slinky Dog Dash)
Star Tours - 11:30 AM
RotR - Not currently offered (Rise of the Resistance)
TMM - 12:45PM (Toy Story Midway Mania)
ToT - 12:45PM  (Tower of Terror)


----------



## katyringo

teeeera said:


> I'm sorry if this has been asked already, but if I am buying ILL for Remy, can I pick an evening time? I have a park reservation for Epcot, but we usually don't go into the parks until 4 or 5pm.


Yes once you click on it you can pick a time you want from the available options.


----------



## LSUfan4444

Jrb1979 said:


> That's if you use standby. I would try to use G+ for every ride. If the wait is longer then 20 minutes I skip it.


I won't go round and round anymore. You won't change your mind and I don't want to try to make you do so. 

If you only want to do everything once and never want to standby and your value is based on how many attractions you use it on and not how long you wait (whether in line or on a bench waiting for your return window) I'm sure you'll find a way to make it work out so you feel like you got your money's worth and thats all that is important. The more people who take your approach and book morning G+ the better it is for me anyway finding the times I want in the afternoon anyway.


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

teeeera said:


> I'm sorry if this has been asked already, but if I am buying ILL for Remy, can I pick an evening time? I have a park reservation for Epcot, but we usually don't go into the parks until 4 or 5pm.


If a later time is available, yes.


----------



## OhDannyBoy

katyringo said:


> Bloggers on Instagram have confirmed this to be true. You can tap in 5 minutes before.


What's the grace period?

Like if i book at 2:30 do i have until 3:30 to check in? Or 3?


----------



## Jennasis

Not being able to modify standard Genie+ selections is an absolute let down.


----------



## LSUfan4444

StarrySkye21 said:


> If they would change the colors of the ILL$ options, or separate them from the rest of the options, that would really help. It’s really confusing when everything says the word lightning lane.


Yeah...Im with ya. I just started using ILL and G+. 

If you don't know what G+ uses the LL entrance, those acronyms probably won't help anyway.  LOL


----------



## MJJME

JETSDAD said:


> I want to use it for all rides....like I did with FP.  I don't want to be in standby at all.  I'm not one that is happy just because a wait is 'only 30 minutes'. Yes, I would use FP on Barnstormer if it meant saving 5 minutes....I would also use it on top rides over and over.  Why must it be either quantity or quality?


Because at some point the return time for a popular ride will be several hours away from actual time and likely the last time you could get it for a particular ride.........

Lets say you book SDD for 11am and then your next one you got Smugglers run at 1:30pm....then you go to book ur nexst and its either ToT or RnR, both are the last window of the day..............Do you book one of those or do you book Star Tours, Indian Jones, Toy Story Mania?


If you do the lesser rides then the other 2 sell out before you can get your next ride


----------



## wisblue

AnnaKristoff2013 said:


> I'm going to piggyback off this question.  I am travelling in december with my wife and kids.  I have an annual pass, but they all have regular tickets.  Am I going to have issues making a group for all of us to do LL selections if we have different ticket types?  That's going to be a real problem if so.



I am in the same position, and this didn‘t cross my mind until this morning when I clicked on the button to try to purchase Genie +. for an upcoming trip. It said that I could only purchase G+ for members of the group with the same type of tickets that I have and that others would have to purchase through their own accounts.

I don’t know if this just applies to advance purchases or if it will also apply if we purchase each day as it comes.

That by itself is an inconvenience, but I’m hoping that once everyone in the group purchases Genie+ we can all book LL attractions together. I also hope we can all purchase any IALL transactions we want in one transaction.

I wonder if anyone in the parks today has faced this yet.


----------



## katyringo

Y'all.

realize some may not agree with me and that's fine. But I'm not even in the park today and I'm enjoying this looking at fastpasses and strategy and talking about it. It feels like the before times. Idk. It's not a perfect system but so far I am a general fan..


----------



## Jennasis

You can only hold ONE G+ reservation at a time correct (I am not including the paid attractions. Just the standard G+ attractions)? I'm just wondering if you book an attraction with a 4pm return window but you booked it at 9am, can you book another attraction at 11am (2 hours later).

Also...find me the idiot who named this program and it's components.  I would like to have a word...


----------



## wisblue

katyringo said:


> Yes once you click on it you can pick a time you want from the available options.



The related question is whether I can select an evening time for Remy at 7AM if I have a park reservation at MK and a hopper ticket.


----------



## Wdw1015

I’ve always used Touring Plans wait times and found them to be much more accurate that Disney’s inflated posted wait times. I was hoping Disney might dial these in so they are more accurate but that does not appear to be the case. Example- Splash Mtn has a posted Disney time of 45 min verses TP actual time of 23 minutes. This makes a difference if I’m doing standby or LL and having to flip back and forth between the apps to determine the correct wait time verses when I can grab a LL for it is a pain. Disney has got to do better with these posted wait times.


----------



## katyringo

Jennasis said:


> You can only hold ONE G+ reservation at a time correct (I am not including the paid attractions. Just the standard G+ attractions)? I'm just wondering if you book an attraction with a 4pm return window but you booked it at 9am, can you book another attraction at 11am (2 hours later).
> 
> Also...find me the idiot who named this program and it's components.  I would like to have a word...



Not correct.  If you make one at 7am and it's return time is further away than 2 hours after park opening you can make another 2 hours after the park opens and have more than 1.

once park is open you can make one every 2hours OR after you use one.

example:
7 am I book one for 12pm. Park opened at 9.
So at 11 I can book another one and still keep
My one for noon so now I have 2.


----------



## DisneyKidds

Orsino said:


> I realize now that Disney has set up a prisoner's dilemma for LL access.


Chapcheck banking on $tockholm $yndrome!


----------



## MJJME

Jennasis said:


> You can only hold ONE G+ reservation at a time correct (I am not including the paid attractions. Just the standard G+ attractions)? I'm just wondering if you book an attraction with a 4pm return window but you booked it at 9am, can you book another attraction at 11am (2 hours later).
> 
> Also...find me the idiot who named this program and it's components.  I would like to have a word...


No....you can hold 2 and possibly more but that hasnt been determined yet....but 2 has


----------



## wisblue

Jennasis said:


> You can only hold ONE G+ reservation at a time correct (I am not including the paid attractions. Just the standard G+ attractions)? I'm just wondering if you book an attraction with a 4pm return window but you booked it at 9am, can you book another attraction at 11am (2 hours later).
> 
> Also...find me the idiot who named this program and it's components.  I would like to have a word...



I thought someone has already said that you can hold more than one at a time.

For example, if at 10 AM you select a LL for Test Track with a 2 PM return, at noon you can make another LL selection.


----------



## MJJME

wisblue said:


> The related question is whether I can select an evening time for Remy at 7AM if I have a park reservation at MK and a hopper ticket.


yes


----------



## Jennasis

katyringo said:


> Not correct.  If you make one at 7am and it's return time is further away than 2 hours after park opening you can make another 2 hours after the park opens and have more than 1.
> 
> once park is open you can make one every 2hours OR after you use one.
> 
> example:
> 7 am I book one for 12pm. Park opened at 9.
> So at 11 I can book another one and still keep
> My one for noon so now I have 2.


Thanks...so even though I may not NEED a G+ at rope drop I may have to book one and use it just to keep my "rolling G+" clock going all day. Like old school FP?


----------



## katyringo

katyringo said:


> Not correct.  If you make one at 7am and it's return time is further away than 2 hours after park opening you can make another 2 hours after the park opens and have more than 1.
> 
> once park is open you can make one every 2hours OR after you use one.
> 
> example:
> 7 am I book one for 12pm. Park opened at 9.
> So at 11 I can book another one and still keep
> My one for noon so now I have 2.



further it seems the cool off period once park is open is 2 hours.

so another scenario is I come to the park and I book one for 3pm. It's currently 930- so now I can make another at 1130am.  I get a return time for 4pM when I book at 1130. I can now make another selection at 130...at 130 I get a selection for 6pm. I now have passes booked from 3,4 and 6pm. All stacked.


----------



## AMartin767

Wdw1015 said:


> I’ve always used Touring Plans wait times and found them to be much more accurate that Disney’s inflated posted wait times. I was hoping Disney might dial these in so they are more accurate but that does not appear to be the case. Example- Splash Mtn has a posted Disney time of 45 min verses TP actual time of 23 minutes. This makes a difference if I’m doing standby or LL and having to flip back and forth between the apps to determine the correct wait time verses when I can grab a LL for it is a pain. Disney has got to do better with these posted wait times.



I don't see them changing this.  It's only to Disney's advantage to inflate wait times for two reasons:

1 - It always feels better to get in a stand-by line and have the actual wait time be shorter
2 - The inflated times play into pushing the customer into spending additional $$ on G+ and/or ILL even if it may not actually be needed.


----------



## OhDannyBoy

katyringo said:


> Y'all.
> 
> realize some may not agree with me and that's fine. But I'm not even in the park today and I'm enjoying this looking at fastpasses and strategy and talking about it. It feels like the before times. Idk. It's not a perfect system but so far I am a general fan..


I'm with you. At least we can start the discussions of best strategies and plans again instead of wild speculation.

If availability stays about what it has been today, I'm ok with G+. Some of the big rides are tough with availability but that's kind of how it's always been. It'll work for my group as I'm going to try and use it for stuff with waits longer than 30 minutes. Past 30 minutes and my little ones start getting antsy. The stuff that's 90 minutes+ and no availability was stuff we can't ride anyways.



Wdw1015 said:


> I’ve always used Touring Plans wait times and found them to be much more accurate that Disney’s inflated posted wait times. I was hoping Disney might dial these in so they are more accurate but that does not appear to be the case. Example- Splash Mtn has a posted Disney time of 45 min verses TP actual time of 23 minutes. This makes a difference if I’m doing standby or LL and having to flip back and forth between the apps to determine the correct wait time verses when I can grab a LL for it is a pain. Disney has got to do better with these posted wait times.


Just figure Disney's time is likely inflated and go from there. If you wait 30 minutes and thought it would be 25 or vice versa, who cares? it's a guess-timation anyways. At least you are in the "know" and realize their times are inflated.


----------



## MJJME

Jennasis said:


> Thanks...so even though I may not NEED a G+ at rope drop I may have to book one and use it just to keep my "rolling G+" clock going all day. Like old school FP?


Correct....this is basically paper FP.....cannot pick return time (which really stinks....i think they should make this a resort perk)


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

wisblue said:


> The related question is whether I can select an evening time for Remy at 7AM if I have a park reservation at MK and a hopper ticket.


If staying onsite, yes you can.  But I have the same question for offsite.  Can I make a Remy ILL$ when the first park opens?  Or do I need to wait until Epcot opens?  Or is it based on your reserved park's opening time?


----------



## LSUfan4444

MJJME said:


> Because at some point the return time for a popular ride will be several hours away from actual time and likely the last time you could get it for a particular ride.........
> 
> Lets say you book SDD for 11am and then your next one you got Smugglers run at 1:30pm....then you go to book ur nexst and its either ToT or RnR, both are the last window of the day..............Do you book one of those or do you book Star Tours, Indian Jones, Toy Story Mania?
> 
> 
> If you do the lesser rides then the other 2 sell out before you can get your next ride


This is it...well said

Each day almost has to be looked at in a vacuum. There will be points where return windows are hours off and what do you do then...not ride anything via standby? Just sit at Picos Bill and load up on the nachos bar? What do you do when return times are gone for Splash because you were waiting an hour for Pirates that you passed up standby when it said 25 minutes.


----------



## jodybird511

I'm sure I missed this--having trouble keeping up with the thread today!  For ILL$, has it been confirmed that you can only book ONE of your two attractions at 7am?  Or can you book both right away?


----------



## MJJME

ENJDisneyFan said:


> If staying onsite, yes you can.  But I have the same question for offsite.  Can I make a Remy ILL$ when the first park opens?  Or do I need to wait until Epcot opens?  Or is it based on your reserved park's opening time?


thats a good question


----------



## katyringo

jodybird511 said:


> I'm sure I missed this--having trouble keeping up with the thread today!  For ILL$, has it been confirmed that you can only book ONE of your two attractions at 7am?  Or can you book both right away?


 You can book both. That has been confirmed.


----------



## MaC410

wisblue said:


> I thought someone has already said that you can hold more than one at a time.
> 
> For example, if at 10 AM you select a LL for Test Track with a 2 PM return, at noon you can make another LL selection.



This was my one big question about this new system. When I visited Disneyland we actually liked the maxpass plus system where you could have more than one fastpass at a time. My wife and I used it to make fastpasses for later in the day to come back to after a midday break. Obviously i'd rather the free fastpass system but if Genie+ will allow us to make another new fastpass 2 hours later some good stuff can be done with this new system.


----------



## wisblue

On the subject of using G+ in the early hours, there are some G+ attractions in every park that have significant lines in the first hour after official opening, especially at times that are busier than now and with Early Entry thrown in. Some that come right to mind are SDD, MFSR, Test Track, Safari, Jungle Cruise, etc.

I think getting a G+ for one of these attractions with an early return time and then getting your second G+ when you get off makes sense.

Do a few things standby during EE and right after 9 and then use that first G+. You’ll end up making your second G+ not long after others are making their first and should have a similar selection.


----------



## AMartin767

LSUfan4444 said:


> This is it...well said
> 
> Each day almost has to be looked at in a vacuum. There will be points where return windows are hours off and what do you do then...not ride anything via standby? Just sit at Picos Bill and load up on the nachos bar? What do you do when return times are gone for Splash because you were waiting an hour for Pirates that you passed up standby when it said 25 minutes.



Disney definitely wants you spending time (and more importantly $$) when you're not doing G+ or ILL cause that's where they make the most profit (i.e. Snacks, foods, drinks, shopping).


----------



## JakeAZ

I'm sure it's here somewhere, but there are so many new posts today.

What did ROTR price out at today before it sold out?


----------



## Sunelis

JakeAZ said:


> I'm sure it's here somewhere, but there are so many new posts today.
> 
> What did ROTR price out at today before it sold out?


15$


----------



## LSUfan4444

AMartin767 said:


> Disney definitely wants you spending time (and more importantly $$) when you're not doing G+ or ILL cause that's where they make the most profit (i.e. Snacks, foods, drinks, shopping).


Oh I agree there.  They definitely want you spending money during that wait time.



JakeAZ said:


> I'm sure it's here somewhere, but there are so many new posts today.
> 
> What did ROTR price out at today before it sold out?


$15


----------



## GoingSince1990

katyringo said:


> Y'all.
> 
> realize some may not agree with me and that's fine. But I'm not even in the park today and I'm enjoying this looking at fastpasses and strategy and talking about it. It feels like the before times. Idk. It's not a perfect system but so far I am a general fan..


Yep, it's good to keep some perspective. It's not that long ago that all the parks were closed with no opening in sight, and we were all stuck at home worrying about being carted off to hospital and put on a ventilator. Back then the idea of going back to Disney at all regardless of what FP-type system they had in place was a joyful fantasy.


----------



## Jrb1979

LSUfan4444 said:


> I won't go round and round anymore. You won't change your mind and I don't want to try to make you do so.
> 
> If you only want to do everything once and never want to standby and your value is based on how many attractions you use it on and not how long you wait (whether in line or on a bench waiting for your return window) I'm sure you'll find a way to make it work out so you feel like you got your money's worth and thats all that is important. The more people who take your approach and book morning G+ the better it is for me anyway finding the times I want in the afternoon anyway.


I do get what you're saying. Book the ones you want for when the park is busy and use standby in the morning when waits are low. 

For me I would book Peter Pan first as the wait is always long then after that book Big Thunder and hope it has an early return time. From there keep taking the next best return time. There is also lot of rides I don't bother riding so missing out on those wouldn't bother me.


----------



## LSUfan4444

Just wanted to update the TouringPlans (aka - The REAL Disney genie) expected wait times for some popular MK attractions

Thunder Mnt - 12 minutes
Buzz - 18 minutes
Jungle Cruise - 53 minutes
Peter Pan - 64 minutes
Pirates - 12 minutes
Mine Train - 43 minutes
Space  - 22 minutes
Splash - 20 minutes
Haunted Mansion - 21 minutes
Pooh - 24 minutes
Speedway - 20 minutes
People Mover - 13 minutes


----------



## DisneyFive

katyringo said:


> further it seems the cool off period once park is open is 2 hours.
> 
> so another scenario is I come to the park and I book one for 3pm. It's currently 930- so now I can make another at 1130am.  I get a return time for 4pM when I book at 1130. I can now make another selection at 130...at 130 I get a selection for 6pm. I now have passes booked from 3,4 and 6pm. All stacked.


In theory you are correct, however the challenge is finding a LL option for 3 PM at 9:30 AM. You only get what they show as available and most likely a ride will not be booked out till 3 PM already at 9:30 AM unless it’s an incredibly popular ride

Dan


----------



## meremac

katyringo said:


> You can book both. That has been confirmed.



For those who have Hoppers, can you split them between parks at the beginning of the day? Or can you only book ILL$ for the park you have a reservation for in the morning?


----------



## tsme

I’m trying so hard not to let this overwhelm and stress me out but .


----------



## DisneyKidds

cindyfan said:


> You are paying for the use of LL why not let us use it for the attractions we want regardless how many times!


Oh, you know Chapcheck has that covered when v2.0 drops.  It will be called Genie ++ and it will be more money than the one LL Genie +!


----------



## Disturbia

LSUfan4444 said:


> The biggest mistake people will make with G+ is trying to use it to save time on attractions before it's really needed. Success with this platform will not be found by how many LL's someone can grab but rather grabbing the ones that save you the most time for the best attractions at the most popular times of the day.


Yes.  That would be me as I don’t want to deal with the payment issues.  Whoever monetized this is going to get a huge bonus; unless they were fired.


----------



## persnickity

I'm curious about G+ and party nights - we're doing HS on the day we got Very Merriest tickets and will most likely buy G+ for that day. I'm wondering if we'll be able to continue using it for the 7-8pm hour at MK. (Not that it'll make a huge difference... but it would be nice.)


----------



## cygnusx1jg

I cannot even fathom what the cost of the ILLs will be on 12/25.


----------



## katyringo

DisneyFive said:


> In theory you are correct, however the challenge is finding a LL option for 3 PM at 9:30 AM. You only get what they show as available and most likely a ride will not be booked out till 3 PM already at 9:30 AM unless it’s an incredibly popular ride
> 
> Dan


correct and thats when strategy and knowing the patterns will come into play. Also helpful when you plan your return to the park during an afternoon break or arriving late.


----------



## katyringo

meremac said:


> For those who have Hoppers, can you split them between parks at the beginning of the day? Or can you only book ILL$ for the park you have a reservation for in the morning?


You can split them. Confirmed by Brooke Mcdonald on instgram. She had one for Rise, and FOP and started her day in MK. booked all at 7.


----------



## katyringo

persnickity said:


> I'm curious about G+ and party nights - we're doing HS on the day we got Very Merriest tickets and will most likely buy G+ for that day. I'm wondering if we'll be able to continue using it for the 7-8pm hour at MK. (Not that it'll make a huge difference... but it would be nice.)


hummmmm now thats a question!


----------



## meremac

katyringo said:


> You can split them. Confirmed by Brooke Mcdonald on instgram. She had one for Rise, and FOP and started her day in MK. booked all at 7.



Awesome! Thank you!


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

katyringo said:


> You can split them. Confirmed by Brooke Mcdonald on instgram. She had one for Rise, and FOP and started her day in MK. booked all at 7.


Do you know if she had an on-site reservation?


----------



## katyringo

ENJDisneyFan said:


> Do you know if she had an on-site reservation?


She did.


----------



## snowpack

MainMom said:


> This is awful for the way we do the parks. Not a fan at all.


Kinda like taking the magic out of it and instead having to work.


----------



## MJJME

ENJDisneyFan said:


> Do you know if she had an on-site reservation?


She had to....only resort guests can book IAS at 7am


----------



## SCDisneyfanatic

travelgirl77 said:


> So, I have military salute tix and I am unable to add Genie +.  Is my only option to call and wait in this hour+ phone line?  Any work arounds?


Did you get your tickets from Shades of Green or from a Travel & Tourism Office on Post?  I received tickets from Shades of Green so they are already activated through Disney and was able to add the Genie+.  Tickets from ITT Offices aren't activated until you go to a Disney Ticket Booth.


----------



## Disturbia

BrotherCraig said:


> For those having issues added Genie+, someone helped me to get it added.  I had to log into the MDE online and go to My Plans - Change Tickets.  I scrolled down to Genie+ and added.  It rang up the total correctly w/tax and I paid for it.  Done.


I’m too afraid to do anything right now.  I know it will freeze or something.


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

MJJME said:


> She had to....only resort guests can book IAS at 7am


Right, I assumed she did.  But I’m still trying to figure out the timing for offsite as I posted earlier.


----------



## Disturbia

DavidNYC said:


> Um - no.   You don't seem to understand how the system works.  Not everyone has had the chance to get it yet.   You get one ride at a time.  It will take you the better part of day to get through all of the rides.  You seem to want a system that benefits you to the detriment of everyone else who paid the same amount you did simply because you choose to be in the park earlier.  A family that wants to do a ride a 2nd time after using LL can get on line like everyone else.  I could use your rationale to say that purchase limits on items are stupid.  I mean if they're "still available" . . . .  Disney has decided to make a system to allow the largest number of people to be able to ride each attraction.  You just want a system that allows you to ride whatever attraction you want as many times as you want even if it means someone else won't get to ride.  As I said - you may not like it - but saying it's stupid and there's no reason for it is just amazingly selfish.  There is an exceptionally easy to understand reason for this which I don't think is lost on most everyone else who understands the phrase "you've already had your turn".


That would be after hours parties or extended deluxe hours.


----------



## ZellyB

katyringo said:


> Y'all.
> 
> realize some may not agree with me and that's fine. But I'm not even in the park today and I'm enjoying this looking at fastpasses and strategy and talking about it. It feels like the before times. Idk. It's not a perfect system but so far I am a general fan..



I agree.  Feels a lot like the old paper FP days but without running all over the park. I'll be curious to read more about how it works on busier days.

Have we heard how long the LL lines are taking?  5 minutes?  15 minutes?  Just curious.


----------



## meremac

katyringo said:


> Y'all.
> 
> realize some may not agree with me and that's fine. But I'm not even in the park today and I'm enjoying this looking at fastpasses and strategy and talking about it. It feels like the before times. Idk. It's not a perfect system but so far I am a general fan..



Um...ditto!! I am having so much fun following this, tweaking plans, and coming up with a gazillion different scenarios for future trips!


----------



## JETSDAD

MJJME said:


> Because at some point the return time for a popular ride will be several hours away from actual time and likely the last time you could get it for a particular ride.........
> 
> Lets say you book SDD for 11am and then your next one you got Smugglers run at 1:30pm....then you go to book ur nexst and its either ToT or RnR, both are the last window of the day..............Do you book one of those or do you book Star Tours, Indian Jones, Toy Story Mania?
> 
> 
> If you do the lesser rides then the other 2 sell out before you can get your next ride


No, because you keep refreshing until you get earlier times....just like with FP.


----------



## wisblue

AMartin767 said:


> Disney definitely wants you spending time (and more importantly $$) when you're not doing G+ or ILL cause that's where they make the most profit (i.e. Snacks, foods, drinks, shopping).



I get the somewhat cynical viewpoint that Disney would rather have guests out spending money than standing in line, but I know that I would rather be strolling around or sitting on a bench for an hour than standing in line for anhour, and I often do not spend a dime while doing  that.

I am also willing to spend to spend a few dollars to avoid participating in the stampedes to some of the most popular attractions in the morning.

FP+ let me do that and, used properly, I think this system can too.


----------



## Disturbia

jecarnl said:


> Disney is destroying the idea of what a vacation is IMO. They have defiantly destroyed any enjoyment that I once had at the parks.


Not unless you’ve experienced the summer crowds.  You would see this as an improvement.


----------



## wisblue

JETSDAD said:


> No, because you keep refreshing until you get earlier times....just like with FP.



With paper FP there was no refreshing.

With FP+ you could refresh until your fingers cramp up and nothing might come up for certain attractions.


----------



## PepperjackDragon

I won’t be doing genie plus until tomorrow but have to report, genie itself is a disaster. Once you set what you want to do it plans out from there, the. It never changes again. Even though I planned it while getting on the bus to animal kingdom it suggested expedition Everest a few minutes later. After we arrived to the park it left it on the recommended list. Ironically yesterday the fop line was so fast we never even stopped prior to getting to the end of ll, yet today it says “estimated wait: Low” and says 95min haha.


----------



## Juventus

Android user here;

Tip Board won't load, can't make ILL$ selections and, strangely, the images on the park maps will not load (thought the wait time indicators are still there).

I do have a park pass for today...but not at the parks.

Any suggestions (I reinstalled twice).


----------



## Disturbia

katyringo said:


> Yes once you click on it you can pick a time you want from the available options.


From what I understand it’s not intuitive, but you can change it by clicking on the ride?


----------



## appleorchard

Avery&Todd said:


> Argh!!!!!!!!! Not what i wanted to hear!!!
> 
> We have to activate them when we arrive which means we'll miss all the 7am drops!!


I have the exact same concern about military tickets. We get in late on Monday night, around 830 pm. Our first day is Magic KIngdom, where just activating the tickets takes forever. Add trying to get a bus from BOardwalk that morning, and it’ll be way past 7 am before we can buy Genie+ at all. I’m hoping there’s a workaround to this! We do have an on-site reservation and the tickets in MDE, they’re just not activated yet.


----------



## travelgirl77

SCDisneyfanatic said:


> Did you get your tickets from Shades of Green or from a Travel & Tourism Office on Post?  I received tickets from Shades of Green so they are already activated through Disney and was able to add the Genie+.  Tickets from ITT Offices aren't activated until you go to a Disney Ticket Booth.


I did purchase them from Shades of Green and they were mailed to me.  Our travel agent said that the Disney CM said that Genie + was not available as a pre-ticket inclusion on discounted tix.  But, that does not seem to be the case if you were able to add it.  I guess since I cannot actually do anything with it until we are there, I can chill out.  But, I do not want to have to rush there to activate anything.


----------



## katyringo

My first park day in Novemer I am on a plane at 7am. Hoping for good plane wifi..


----------



## shaqfor3

So the overreacting 1 day sample size super mega strategy for Genie+ is:

MK:  7 AM - Jungle Cruise, then Peter Pan, then Splash then Haunted Mansion and then any of Big Thunder, Winnie or Pirates.

Epcot - Skip Buying it.  Maybe spend 9$ on Remi if I don't get the boarding, but it seems like I will be able to get it at 1pm.  If you buy order should be Test Track, Soarin, Mission Space and then move to another park.  

DHS - 7 AM - SLINKY,  then Millennium Falcon, then RnR Coaster, Toy Story Mania, Tower of Terror and Aliens.   

AK - Skip it.  If you must 7AM Navi.   Safari I guess but currently is 10 minutes.  

If I buy the Genie+ for Epcot and AK its because I'm planning on Hopping to DHS or MK.


----------



## Disturbia

Wdw1015 said:


> I’ve always used Touring Plans wait times and found them to be much more accurate that Disney’s inflated posted wait times. I was hoping Disney might dial these in so they are more accurate but that does not appear to be the case. Example- Splash Mtn has a posted Disney time of 45 min verses TP actual time of 23 minutes. This makes a difference if I’m doing standby or LL and having to flip back and forth between the apps to determine the correct wait time verses when I can grab a LL for it is a pain. Disney has got to do better with these posted wait times.


They inflate times so people like us who do a rider switch or DAS are stuck at a 60 min ride for 2 hours.


----------



## shaqfor3

I think the worst thing about Genie+ one attraction per day rule is that if now if I want to see Disney and Pixar Short Film Festival at Epcot more than once I will have to get in line at least once.


----------



## MJJME

JETSDAD said:


> No, because you keep refreshing until you get earlier times....just like with FP.


Lol....thats not how it works or will work

Its first come, first serve........earlier times sell out and then you get next available


----------



## JETSDAD

MJJME said:


> Lol....thats not how it works or will work
> 
> Its first come, first serve........earlier times sell out and then you get next available


It has already been shown today that it does in fact work.


----------



## Miffy

Although I admit that I haven't read every single post from today, I haven't seen this question addressed:

If you're purchasing ILL$ for 2 or more people, does each person get individually charged for this or is everything charged to the person who does the booking?

And on the subject of paying--do G+ and ILL$ just do the same thing mobile ordering does, which I believe is charging everything to the credit card on file?

TIA to anyone who might know the answers to these Very Pressing Issues!


----------



## Disturbia

JakeAZ said:


> I'm sure it's here somewhere, but there are so many new posts today.
> 
> What did ROTR price out at today before it sold out?


Are you suggesting variable pricing per hour.  Let’s not put any more greedy ideas into Genie’s tricks bag.


----------



## MJJME

JETSDAD said:


> It has already been shown today that it does in fact work.


Ok......But it doesnt


----------



## JakeAZ

Disturbia said:


> Are you suggesting variable pricing per hour.  Let’s not put any more greedy ideas into Genie’s tricks bag.


No, I was just curious what price it was today.  That and FOP are really the only two I'd consider paying for in advance.

But don't kid yourself, variable pricing, within the day, has always been a part of this plan.


----------



## Miffy

JakeAZ said:


> No, I was just curious what price it was today.  That and FOP are really the only two I'd consider paying for in advance.
> 
> But don't kid yourself, variable pricing, within the day, has always been a part of this plan.


RotR was reported at $15.
I just looked at the app and FoP is $11 right now.


----------



## SkyGuy

MJJME said:


> Lol....thats not how it works or will work
> 
> Its first come, first serve........earlier times sell out and then you get next available


I watched a blogger refresh several times for LL to get Peter Pan from 1:30pm to 11:00am (unless you were referring to the paid options).


----------



## persnickity

MJJME said:


> Ok......But it doesnt



It does, maybe you can go back through the thread to find the relevant post.


----------



## DisneyFive

Just so I have this straight. She was able to purchase rides on Rise and FOP, and then book a G+ selection at Magic Kingdom. She did this all at 7 AM?


----------



## DavidNYC

MJJME said:


> Lol....thats not how it works or will work
> 
> Its first come, first serve........earlier times sell out and then you get next available


it can work but nowhere near as easily with FP+.  And from completely unscientific sample today - earlier didn’t pop up nearly as frequently.


----------



## appleorchard

I just tried to add Genie plus for our November trip to our military tickets. It apparently can’t be done online. The message I got was that I need to call my reservation provider or DIsney Reservation center to add. Huge bummer since we get in so late the night before our first park day, we’ll never be able to get the tickets activated before Guest services closes. So our first day we’ll be basically shut out of the 7 am booking period for passes.


----------



## katyringo

DisneyFive said:


> Just so I have this straight. She was able to purchase rides on Rise and FOP, and then book a G+ selection at Magic Kingdom. She did this all at 7 AM?


Yes.


----------



## JETSDAD

MJJME said:


> Ok......But it doesnt


People have refreshed and different, earlier, times show up. 


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450424556204744704


----------



## MJJME

SkyGuy said:


> I watched a blogger refresh several times for LL to get Peter Pan from 1:30pm to 11:00am (unless you were referring to the paid options).


Thats only a function of people cancelling an earlier time, you cannot continually do that and get earlier times, meaning that WDW releases chronologically and they sell out in order of earliest to latest.....


----------



## OhDannyBoy

MJJME said:


> Ok......But it doesnt


But it did. Whether or not it will continue to do so is to be seen.

I was messing with it all morning and saw on a few different occasions earlier times did indeed pop up. Not many. May have been a fluke or something. But YES it did happen.


----------



## appleorchard

travelgirl77 said:


> I did purchase them from Shades of Green and they were mailed to me.  Our travel agent said that the Disney CM said that Genie + was not available as a pre-ticket inclusion on discounted tix.  But, that does not seem to be the case if you were able to add it.  I guess since I cannot actually do anything with it until we are there, I can chill out.  But, I do not want to have to rush there to activate anything.


I’m in the same boat. Wouldn’t be a problem if we got in a little earlier the night before, but we’ll never make it to Guest Services because we get in so late.


----------



## JETSDAD

MJJME said:


> Thats only a function of people cancelling an earlier time, you cannot continually do that and get earlier times, meaning that WDW releases chronologically and they sell out in order of earliest to latest.....


That's exactly how refreshing for FP worked (I guess I better state FP+ because someone will say you couldn't refresh for tickets even though we all know what is meant).  It relied on others dropping their FP's as well. Rides would be out of FP's 60 days in advance and yet you could get them day of because people dropped them.  That's why people would refresh, to find those earlier times or rides that had previously been sold out.


----------



## OhDannyBoy

MJJME said:


> Thats only a function of people cancelling an earlier time, you cannot continually do that and get earlier times, meaning that WDW releases chronologically and they sell out in order of earliest to latest.....


Yeah probably. I sure wouldn't depend on it happening for any sort of plan.


----------



## Gretch128

Miffy said:


> Although I admit that I haven't read every single post from today, I haven't seen this question addressed:
> 
> If you're purchasing ILL$ for 2 or more people, does each person get individually charged for this or is everything charged to the person who does the booking?
> 
> And on the subject of paying--do G+ and ILL$ just do the same thing mobile ordering does, which I believe is charging everything to the credit card on file?
> 
> TIA to anyone who might know the answers to these Very Pressing Issues!



I'm in the same situation of 3 groups of adult couples but we want to ride everything together.  You can load up to 6 credit cards on file and then select them when checking out like a drop down.  So, for LL I intend before 7am, check out each group with their credit card.  After that for ILL$ rides, we are going to go into a gift shop the day before and buy a gift card together.  We can all chip in to pay our part there.  You can pay for ILL$ using a gift card then.  No one gets screwed that way.  It's the only idea we've come up with so far for our scenerio.  Obviously they could be linked and log in themselves but they aren't tech savvy and prefer I 'take the wheel'.  

Let me know if anyone thinks of a better method, haha.


----------



## Sjm9911

They may mesure it vs the standby line also, so if standby is short they open up more spots for the genie.


----------



## boop0524

Gretch128 said:


> I'm in the same situation of 3 groups of adult couples but we want to ride everything together.  You can load up to 6 credit cards on file and then select them when checking out like a drop down.  So, for LL I intend before 7am, check out each group with their credit card.  After that for ILL$ rides, we are going to go into a gift shop the day before and buy a gift card together.  We can all chip in to pay our part there.  You can pay for ILL$ using a gift card then.  No one gets screwed that way.  It's the only idea we've come up with so far for our scenerio.  Obviously they could be linked and log in themselves but they aren't tech savvy and prefer I 'take the wheel'.
> 
> Let me know if anyone thinks of a better method, haha.


Love your gift card idea! All I’ve got was Venmo, haha.


----------



## persnickity

MJJME said:


> Thats only a function of people cancelling an earlier time, you cannot continually do that and get earlier times, meaning that WDW releases chronologically and they sell out in order of earliest to latest.....



We don't really know that, unless you work for WDW. It could be part of their algorithm, people dropping their LL's, or both.


----------



## OhDannyBoy

Anyone have an answer on return times once a LL is booked? An hour? 30 minutes? 

I might have missed it.


----------



## disneydreamer781

I just went to switch an ADR time on MDE and when I cancelled the search because there wasn't anything else available, I literally was signed into someone else's MDE account. It actually took me into their profile! Yikes! Now I'm really concerned about my own and someone getting access to my account. I'm honest but someone else maybe not so much.


----------



## snikki

persnickity said:


> We don't really know that, unless you work for WDW. It could be part of their algorithm, people dropping their LL's, or both.



It could be their way of dispersing crowds. All part of the G+ plan.


----------



## MJJME

persnickity said:


> We don't really know that, unless you work for WDW. It could be part of their algorithm, people dropping their LL's, or both.


Wish you were right.....

Either dropping availability throughout the day or choosing return times would make the guest experience a lot better

But unfortunately thats not the case

I agree with you that is should not be earliest to latest, but unfortunately it is


----------



## MaC410

The one lightning lane per ride per day is a real bummer. We loved using Fastpass+ and getting on the same ride mutliple times of day for the lesser popular rides that were easier to get fastpasses for.


----------



## Disturbia

SkyGuy said:


> I watched a blogger refresh several times for LL to get Peter Pan from 1:30pm to 11:00am (unless you were referring to the paid options).


Molly called it reoptimizing when she talked about genie (free).  I guess you can do that with Genie+ as well as the system is trying to manage crowds.

several people reported refreshing and getting an earlier time (before booking Genie+).  Once you book you’re locked in or you risk loosing that time (have to cancel and rebook)

LLIA$ Can’t be modified or refunded


----------



## DisneyFive

MJJME said:


> Thats only a function of people cancelling an earlier time, you cannot continually do that and get earlier times, meaning that WDW releases chronologically and they sell out in order of earliest to latest.....



Exactly, but what does it matter? If I am able to get a LL for a much earlier time by refreshing then that is what I will do. It’s the same as the old FP+.  People were changing plans and canceling FP+ all the time which meant you could keep refreshing and snag them when they became available. I see G+ working the same way and I see no reason why it wouldn’t stay that way long term.

Dan


----------



## zebrastreyepz

I haven't seen this information anywhere and I've tried to keep up with the thread but it's a monster.

On my December trip, MK is open 9A-8P, EP 11A-10P, HS 9A-9P, and AK 9A-7P.

With the 120 minute rule and assuming I start at 7AM, does this mean the maximum G+ LL selections we can choose would be 6 at AK, 7 at MK and HS, and 8 at EP....for the day NOT including the ILL paid choices?


----------



## SMF_mom23

zebrastreyepz said:


> I haven't seen this information anywhere and I've tried to keep up with the thread but it's a monster.
> 
> On my December trip, MK is open 9A-8P, EP 11A-10P, HS 9A-9P, and AK 9A-7P.
> 
> With the 120 minute rule and assuming I start at 7AM, does this mean the maximum G+ LL selections we can choose would be 6 at AK, 7 at MK and HS, and 8 at EP....for the day NOT including the ILL paid choices?


You could get more if you grab a new one once you tap in to your current LL, even if it is within the 2 hr window.


----------



## MJJME

DisneyFive said:


> Exactly, but what does it matter? If I am able to get a LL for a much earlier time by refreshing then that is what I will do. It’s the same as the old FP+.  People were changing plans and canceling FP+ all the time which meant you could keep refreshing and snag them when they became available. I see G+ working the same way and I see no reason why it wouldn’t stay that way long term.
> 
> Dan


Because you have to drop your time to get the other one and you risk the earlier one being taken and now you have none


----------



## MaC410

zebrastreyepz said:


> I haven't seen this information anywhere and I've tried to keep up with the thread but it's a monster.
> 
> On my December trip, MK is open 9A-8P, EP 11A-10P, HS 9A-9P, and AK 9A-7P.
> 
> With the 120 minute rule and assuming I start at 7AM, does this mean the maximum G+ LL selections we can choose would be 6 at AK, 7 at MK and HS, and 8 at EP....for the day NOT including the ILL paid choices?



The moment you use your lightning lane you can make another. The two hour rule is only for if your return time is more than 2 hours away you can make another selection after 2 hours. The only real hard cap of lightning lane selections is the amount of rides there are since you can only do each ride once a day.


----------



## Kingdome8

I looked at genie plus.   Says slinky dog stand by line is 65 mins and lightning not available.   Does that mean the genie plus lightning lane  is filled for the day?   
If so I guess the big rides have to be picked first and ridden early.


----------



## Mango7100

JETSDAD said:


> People have refreshed and different, earlier, times show up.
> 
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1450424556204744704


What’s the fastest way to refresh now?  I’m not at the parks but have an AP so have been playing around today. Is it just pulling down on the screen and then scrolling through? I just tried it and I saw a Smugglers for 810 but then refreshed and it says no availability for rest of day


----------



## zebrastreyepz

Thank you so much @MaC410 and @SMF_Mom


----------



## MJJME

Mango7100 said:


> What’s the fastest way to refresh now. I’m not on the parks but have an AP so have been playing around today. Is it just pulling down on the screen and then scrolling through. I just tried it and I saw a Smugglers for 810 but then refreshed and it says no availability for rest of day


exactly......would stink if you dropped yours to grab that and then it was gone


----------



## lions1995

I did see that RotR was sold out early in the day. I wonder if they will release more as the day goes.


----------



## MaC410

I guess you can't edit your lightning lane selection like you could with fastpass+? That was the best way to refresh with fastpass+. You would make a selection and then edit it and keep refreshing to change the time. If you can't edit your lightning lane selection then refreshing will be a lot more risky and less useful. You'll have to do all your refreshing before making your actual choice.


----------



## maryj11

Just looked over the Genie +. 
Am I the only one who thinks they will like it? 
Then again there will only be 2 in our group. The money would be an issue for a larger group.
It seems like it will make things easier.


----------



## Nabz34

I was at the parks last week and doing standby only was miserable, especially at DHS. Would’ve loved to have Genie+ up and running then and would have definitely used it at MK and DHS. For AK would do ILL$ for FOP but probably don’t need Genie+ for that park or Epcot. Based on how the times look like today I would say I prefer this over FP+ overall but obviously YMMV with that (we are not rope droppers, and we rarely park hop).


----------



## Kingdome8

lions1995 said:


> I did see that RotR was sold out early in the day. I wonder if they will release more as the day goes.



but that’s for individual purchase of rise.   Slinky dog is part of genie plus lightning lane.


----------



## LSUfan4444

DisneyFive said:


> Exactly, but what does it matter? If I am able to get a LL for a much earlier time by refreshing then that is what I will do. It’s the same as the old FP+.  People were changing plans and canceling FP+ all the time which meant you could keep refreshing and snag them when they became available. I see G+ working the same way and I see no reason why it wouldn’t stay that way long term.
> 
> Dan


Imagine having a FP+ booked for Splash Mountain for 4pm and you tried the refresh method. At 2pm you saw one available at 2:20. Then, you had to cancel your FP+ and rebook it. How many times do you think they FP+ would still be there?

You can't (currently) change the time of your G+ reservation just because you see an earlier come come available


----------



## katyringo

maryj11 said:


> Just looked over the Genie +.
> Am I the only one who thinks they will like it?
> Then again there will only be 2 in our group. The money would be an issue for a larger group.
> It seems like it will make things easier.


Nope not alone. Im all in. I like it.


----------



## katyringo

On the refresh topic..

You cannot cancel your current selection and change it if a better time pops up.

YOU CAN refresh before you book to look for an extra time.


----------



## emilymad

It will be really interesting to see how this works during a busy time and not a low crowd day like today.  We go right after Thanksgiving so I am sure 20 minute wait times will not be the norm.  Will LL still be easy to get?


----------



## OhDannyBoy

katyringo said:


> On the refresh topic..
> 
> You cannot cancel your current selection and change it if a better time pops up.
> 
> YOU CAN refresh before you book to look for an extra time.


So once you book a time you are stuck with it?


----------



## dez1978

MJJME said:


> Ok......But it doesnt


There are multiple posts today saying that it HAS worked.


----------



## keishashadow

katyringo said:


> On the refresh topic..
> 
> You cannot cancel your current selection and change it if a better time pops up.
> 
> YOU CAN refresh before you book to look for an extra time.


Does this apply to both the free genie & the paid LL?


----------



## katyringo

OhDannyBoy said:


> So once you book a time you are stuck with it?


that seems to be what is being reported.


----------



## OhDannyBoy

katyringo said:


> that seems to be what is being reported.


Ewwww


----------



## persnickity

OhDannyBoy said:


> So once you book a time you are stuck with it?



Unless you drop your time and look for another, which has risks. (I think?)

ETA: referring to G+, not to individually purchased rides, those seem to be locked in


----------



## katyringo

keishashadow said:


> Does this apply to both the free genie & the paid LL?


 no sure. need more reports.


----------



## katyringo

persnickity said:


> Unless you drop your time and look for another, which has risks. (I think?)
> 
> ETA: referring to G+, not to individually purchased rides, those seem to be locked in


 We need this confirmed still. mixed info. can you cancel a genie + or not?


----------



## MJJME

keishashadow said:


> Does this apply to both the free genie & the paid LL?


IAS cannot be modified or cancelled


----------



## CJLove79

MaC410 said:


> The moment you use your lightning lane you can make another. The two hour rule is only for if your return time is more than 2 hours away you can make another selection after 2 hours. The only real hard cap of lightning lane selections is the amount of rides there are since you can only do each ride once a day.



I just watched Kyle Pallo's vlog and he had trouble getting another Lightning Lane. He got a message that he would need to wait an hour before he can get another Lightning Lane. But after multiple tries, he was able to get another Lightning Lane a half hour after he rode Barnstormer, it was a glitch.  Here's the link to Kyle's vlog....


----------



## katyringo

You Cannot modify or cancel and individual lightening lane..

But can you cancel a genie +?


----------



## katyringo

CJLove79 said:


> I just watched Kyle Pallo's vlog and he wasn't able to make another Lightning Lane until an hour after he used a Lightning Lane for barnstormer. I don't know if its a glitch or not but I wanted to let people know, just in case. Here's the link to Kyle's vlog....


 I didn't watch but did he have another one booked?


----------



## LSUfan4444

keishashadow said:


> Does this apply to both the free genie & the paid LL?


ILL's cannot be cancelled, changed, refunded or modified


----------



## OhDannyBoy

katyringo said:


> You Cannot modify or cancel and individual lightening lane..
> 
> But can you cancel a genie +?


That's what I was asking.


----------



## dez1978

OhDannyBoy said:


> So once you book a time you are stuck with it?


yes.


----------



## rmclain73

Has anyone been stacking LL's to use them all in the evening?  Seems there were enough times available later in the day to that?

I am thinking you could get up at 7:00am and buy your 2 LA$ rides, then book one at 11:00am, 1:00pm, and 3:00pm.  If it worked out you could have 5 lined up for an evening.


----------



## MJJME

katyringo said:


> You Cannot modify or cancel and individual lightening lane..
> 
> But can you cancel a genie +?


From my understanding (read but not conifrmed personally) , you can try and get a different time BUT (and this is the big BUT)

you have to cancel your existing foirst and then rebook so you risk the new one not being there


----------



## MJJME

rmclain73 said:


> Has anyone been stacking LL's to use them all in the evening?  Seems there were enough times available later in the day to that?
> 
> I am thinking you could get up at 7:00am and buy your 2 LA$ rides, then book one at 11:00am, 1:00pm, and 3:00pm.  If it worked out you could have 5 lined up for an evening.



Actually 6...... for a 9am park opening, by 3pm you could have the following:

7am - book initial Genie+ for SDD
9am - park opens
11am - book 2nd Genie+ for MFSR
1pm - book 3rd Genie+ for ToT
3pm - book 4th Genie+ for TSMM

Plus your 2 IAS purchases


so technically the max you could have is 6 by 3pm (based on availability) and paying max prices so maybe people that have done that today can confirm?


----------



## OhDannyBoy

NM redundant.


----------



## katyringo

OhDannyBoy said:


> For the G+ too?
> 
> Sorry I got a few mixed answers in there and am confused.


I'm confused here too..I don't know the answer yet.


----------



## CJLove79

katyringo said:


> I didn't watch but did he have another one booked?



Ok, I messed up, he was able to get another Lightning Lane without waiting the hour, it was a glitch, sorry guys. LOL.


----------



## OhDannyBoy

katyringo said:


> I'm confused here too..I don't know the answer yet.


I don't feel as silly now. LOL


----------



## Disturbia




----------



## OhDannyBoy

CJLove79 said:


> Ok, I messed up, he was able to get another Lightning Lane without waiting the hour, it was a glitch, sorry guys. LOL.


Bruh don't scares us like that....LOL


----------



## DisneyKidds

Disturbia said:


> Are you suggesting variable pricing per hour.  Let’s not put any more greedy ideas into Genie’s tricks bag.


Yeah, you gotta wait for Chapcheck’s v2.0 for that!!


----------



## leeniewdw

jodybird511 said:


> I'm sure I missed this--having trouble keeping up with the thread today!  For ILL$, has it been confirmed that you can only book ONE of your two attractions at 7am?  Or can you book both right away?





katyringo said:


> You can book both. That has been confirmed.



But can you do that for your friends/family all at once?




Miffy said:


> Although I admit that I haven't read every single post from today, I haven't seen this question addressed:
> 
> If you're purchasing ILL$ for 2 or more people, does each person get individually charged for this or is everything charged to the person who does the booking?
> 
> And on the subject of paying--do G+ and ILL$ just do the same thing mobile ordering does, which I believe is charging everything to the credit card on file?
> 
> TIA to anyone who might know the answers to these Very Pressing Issues!



I'm still hoping for confirmation that the person booking the group can do all of them at the same time?  Has that been confirmed?



Gretch128 said:


> I'm in the same situation of 3 groups of adult couples but we want to ride everything together.  You can load up to 6 credit cards on file and then select them when checking out like a drop down.  So, for LL I intend before 7am, check out each group with their credit card.  After that for ILL$ rides, we are going to go into a gift shop the day before and buy a gift card together.  We can all chip in to pay our part there.  You can pay for ILL$ using a gift card then.  No one gets screwed that way.  It's the only idea we've come up with so far for our scenerio.  Obviously they could be linked and log in themselves but they aren't tech savvy and prefer I 'take the wheel'.
> 
> Let me know if anyone thinks of a better method, haha.



Wow -- lot of thought into this!  Except I still can't follow, lol.  If everyone is planning to G+, can't you do that ahead of time and have it just bill to the CC on file?  

And can you confirm that one person can book the IL$ rides for the whole group?  My issue isn't the splitting the cost (we're bringing adult kids and footing the bill), but rather how to book everyone at once.  It doesn't seem like they'd let you bill people in your F&F group (even though in this case we will have our card on file for all 3 rooms/bookings).   Or is the thinking that whomever selects the IL$ is paying the bill?


----------



## DisneyFive

MJJME said:


> Because you have to drop your time to get the other one and you risk the earlier one being taken and now you have none


You simply don’t book the LL until you are happy with the LL return time.   Refresh now happens before you actually book it, rather than booking it and then modifying it to a new time. I like the old way with FP+ better , I agree, but at least this gives you the ability to still look for earlier times than what may originally show up in MDE.  Refresh until you are happy enough, then book it.

Dan


----------



## CJLove79

OhDannyBoy said:


> Bruh don't scares us like that....LOL


I'ma take an L on that, my bad man. LOL. We're all learning this as we go along. LOL.


----------



## OhDannyBoy

CJLove79 said:


> I'ma take an L on that, my bad man. LOL. We're all learning this as we go along. LOL.


All in good fun bro. LOL

This is a LOT to take in.


----------



## OhDannyBoy

DisneyFive said:


> You simply don’t book the LL until you are happy with the LL return time.   Refresh now happens before you actually book it, rather than booking it and then modifying it to a new time. I like the old way with FP+ better , I agree, but at least this gives you the ability to still look for earlier times than what may originally show up in MDE.  Refresh until you are happy enough, then book it.
> 
> Dan


Yah I don't see how this is a whole lot different than the refresh hunt for the 4th FP+ was. If anything it's a bit easier IMO.


----------



## JETSDAD

Mango7100 said:


> What’s the fastest way to refresh now?  I’m not at the parks but have an AP so have been playing around today. Is it just pulling down on the screen and then scrolling through? I just tried it and I saw a Smugglers for 810 but then refreshed and it says no availability for rest of day


I'm not certain yet because my G+ isn't working properly.  One way that I seem to be able to refresh quickly is when you click on Explore Options Now for booking LL entry.  First it goes to the ILLs but then it goes to regular LL.  Going back and forth between those pages seems to refresh quickly and in the matter of less than a minute I was able to go from the earliest available BTM being 4:20 down to 3:55 (this was at 3:35) as an example.

ETA, I was able to get Peter Pan from 5:00 down to 3:50 at 3:41.


----------



## Disturbia

Disney rewards redemption and gift card can be used to purchase genie+ and IALL


LSUfan4444 said:


> Imagine having a FP+ booked for Splash Mountain for 4pm and you tried the refresh method. At 2pm you saw one available at 2:20. Then, you had to cancel your FP+ and rebook it. How many times do you think they FP+ would still be there?
> 
> You can't (currently) change the time of your G+ reservation just because you see an earlier come come available


you can keep going back and forth and not book until you see an acceptable time


----------



## DavidNYC

MJJME said:


> Actually 6...... for a 9am park opening, by 3pm you could have the following:
> 
> 7am - book initial Genie+ for SDD
> 9am - park opens
> 11am - book 2nd Genie+ for MFSR
> 1pm - book 3rd Genie+ for ToT
> 3pm - book 4th Genie+ for TSMM
> 
> Plus your 2 IAS purchases
> 
> 
> so technically the max you could have is 6 by 3pm (based on availability) and paying max prices so maybe people that have done that today can confirm?


Problem is the rides you’re booking at 7 and 11 AM and 1 PM are likely to only have returned times an hour to two hours later unless it’s peak season.  So you’re not truly stacking up passes to use later in the evening in a short time.  You’ll have needed to have ridden several of those by 3 PM.


----------



## Grasshopper2016

Has anyone confirmed whether you can get a Boarding Group for Remy and then also purchase an ILL$ for it?  Or, alternatively, could you purchase an ILL$ for Remy at 7:00 and then try for a Boarding Group at 1:00?


----------



## sponica

Kingdome8 said:


> I looked at genie plus.   Says slinky dog stand by line is 65 mins and lightning not available.   Does that mean the genie plus lightning lane  is filled for the day?
> If so I guess the big rides have to be picked first and ridden early.



I feel like that makes sense. I imagine if it was still the old school paper, that would be a ride that runs out quickly.


----------



## Disturbia

Grasshopper2016 said:


> Has anyone confirmed whether you can get a Boarding Group for Remy and then also purchase an ILL$ for it?  Or, alternatively, could you purchase an ILL$ for Remy at 7:00 and then try for a Boarding Group at 1:00?


Yes.  I think those are mutually exclusive


----------



## CWTC

So overall we were happy today - left BCV at 8am with ROTR and TSMM prebooked. Rode MMRR standby, did TSMM twice, rode star tours, and left park after ROTR. Stopped for lunch and snacks/cocktails, shopped, and got some fun photo passes. Currently poolside, hunting for a jungle cruise LL around 730 or 745 as we are heading to poly for snacks and drinks then boo bash.  We really miss FP+ and sleeping in but honestly this was not the train wreck I was expecting.

edited to add: our biggest issue was frankly the zombie guests who were staring at the phones while walking and not paying attention.  I almost got taken out multiple times.


----------



## Cabius

The "you can book another pass after two hours" loophole really contributes to this imo. Savvy guests will take those afternoon slots, knowing that they don't actually have to wait until the end of the day to book another pass. Otherwise they'd have to really think about whether that 4PM pass is worth it. Overall availability is worse, and savvy guests lose out. 

Basically, I get why that rule exists, and I'm sure that as a savvy visitor I would use it to full advantage if I ever buy G+, but I still hate it.


----------



## CJK

I am going a bit crazy here. I can't get the Tip board to work for the life of me. I keep getting the message that 'something went wrong'. I have uninstalled/installed several times. I've rebooted the phone, and signed in/out several times. What am I doing wrong? Our trip is coming up quickly, and I would really like to see that page.


----------



## Gretch128

leeniewdw said:


> But can you do that for your friends/family all at once?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm still hoping for confirmation that the person booking the group can do all of them at the same time?  Has that been confirmed?
> 
> 
> 
> Wow -- lot of thought into this!  Except I still can't follow, lol.  If everyone is planning to G+, can't you do that ahead of time and have it just bill to the CC on file?
> 
> And can you confirm that one person can book the IL$ rides for the whole group?  My issue isn't the splitting the cost (we're bringing adult kids and footing the bill), but rather how to book everyone at once.  It doesn't seem like they'd let you bill people in your F&F group (even though in this case we will have our card on file for all 3 rooms/bookings).   Or is the thinking that whomever selects the IL$ is paying the bill?



You’ll be able to select everyone in your group even if they are different rooms.  If they are all linked under family and friends and you have permission to make their plans on MDE, you’re good to go.

You can have up to 6 different credit/debit cards on file with one on default, but you are given a drop down list to change to different card at checkout.  Or you can pay with gift card.  We are 3 groups of adult siblings/spouses and don’t want to all be on one card.  Sucks it has to be so complicated!  But saw suggestion of Venmo, so that is a good idea too.


----------



## figment do the bart123

Hey do you have to pay for figment lighting lane or is it free? Do you only have to pay for the popular rides?


----------



## itf

CJK said:


> I am going a bit crazy here. I can't get the Tip board to work for the life of me. I keep getting the message that 'something went wrong'. I have uninstalled/installed several times. I've rebooted the phone, and signed in/out several times. What am I doing wrong? Our trip is coming up quickly, and I would really like to see that page.



You're not alone. I tried the livechat but no reply.


----------



## jahudso0

Is anybody else having a problem with the app not loading available genie + or lightning lane times.  Every time I’ve tried to get a time, I get an error message and can’t book anything.


----------



## jahudso0

jahudso0 said:


> Is anybody else having a problem with the app not loading available genie + or lightning lane times.  Every time I’ve tried to get a time, I get an error message and can’t book anything.



I just saw the prior post, so it looks like others  are having this problem.  I was able to get a free FOP and a Navi by going to guest services, but super frustrating.  Also, told the poly front desk that I’d be camped out tomorrow at 655 so that they can make the reservations when the app doesn’t work.


----------



## StacyStrong

How have waits been for standby lines? What about the ratio of standby to G+?


----------



## MakiraMarlena

Yep, slinky was filled for the day by noon. But it's the only one (outside of the ILL category)


----------



## cfw213

Love this thread and have been following since the beginning. I'm about 10 pages behind with all the activity today but I have been tracking MK all day as compared to our touring plan and seeing how the returns would work out, and I honestly think it turns out better than FP+ for us. On this particular day we are skipping tomorrowland (coming back a second evening for that) and heading to an early dinner/early evening but I think you could pretty easily fit tomorrowland in in the evening based on the return times I am seeing.

This is our plan:

7am - Pull G+ for Pooh, est return time 9:10
8:30 - Standby 7DMT, approx wait 45 mins. We need to rider swap so I anticipate this will take at least an hour, maybe a little more. 
9:30 - Ride Under the Sea standby. We will probably do this while we rider swap 7DMT since it should be a walk on. 
9:45 - Use Pooh G+, pull G+ for Haunted Mansion with estimate return time of 10:45
Snack/shopping break
10:45 - Use G+ on Haunted Mansion, pull G+ for Splash, estimated return time 11:15 
11:15 - Splash with G+. Again rider swap so I estimate this will take close to an hour. Will likely standby Aladdin while we wait/swap. 
11:15 - Pull Pirates G+, estimated return time 12pm
12:15pm- Ride Pirates G+, pull G+ for Jungle Cruise, estimate return time 3:30
12:30-2:30, Break for lunch, Philharmagic, and Small World standby
2pm - since 120 mins has passed, pull another G+ for BTMRR. Estimated return time 2:40
2:40 - G+ BTMRR. I don't think I can pull another one since we won't have used our Jungle Cruise pass yet but I'm unclear here
Dole whip break! 
3:30 - G+ Jungle Cruise, pull G+ for PPF. Estimated return time 5pm
Short break/ride Carousel
5pm - G+ Peter Pan 
5:45 - depart park 

So, that's 7 G+ and a pretty full day of touring. Returns for tomorrowland attractions are pretty close to current so I think you could pretty easily get another 2-3 G+ rides and do Space in the evening and pretty much hit everything in the park with minimal waits. You could do even better by pulling a ILL$ for 7DMT and riding Space standby at rope drop.


----------



## DisneyKidds

MakiraMarlena said:


> Yep, slinky was filled for the day by noon. But it's the only one (outside of the ILL category)


Imagine how quick it will book up on a busy day!


----------



## Jrb1979

This is a good example of how Genie+ can be used to get in a lot of rides.


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

DisneyKidds said:


> Imagine how quick it will book up on a busy day!


Within seconds.


----------



## jujubiee4

I wonder how much Disney will make off this ? Even for today?


----------



## zebrastreyepz

CJLove79 said:


> I just watched Kyle Pallo's vlog and he had trouble getting another Lightning Lane. He got a message that he would need to wait an hour before he can get another Lightning Lane. But after multiple tries, he was able to get another Lightning Lane a half hour after he rode Barnstormer, it was a glitch.  Here's the link to Kyle's vlog....



I highly recommend this video, as well. It really helped me.


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

Jrb1979 said:


> This is a good example of how Genie+ can be used to get in a lot of rides.


On a crowd level 1 day.


----------



## cfw213

rmclain73 said:


> Has anyone been stacking LL's to use them all in the evening?  Seems there were enough times available later in the day to that?
> 
> I am thinking you could get up at 7:00am and buy your 2 LA$ rides, then book one at 11:00am, 1:00pm, and 3:00pm.  If it worked out you could have 5 lined up for an evening.


You have to use the G+ within the return time window, so no it would be pretty unlikely that all the return times would be in the evening while also have large enough gaps like you are describing to book every 2 hours. It's not impossible I guess but pretty unlikely.


----------



## CarolynFH

DisneyKidds said:


> Imagine how quick it will book up on a busy day!


Reminds me of when Toy Story Midway Mania was new, with legacy FP!


----------



## cfw213

AnnaKristoff2013 said:


> On a crowd level 1 day.


On the disUnplugged podcast today, Deni said she felt it was quite crowded today. Judging by MK wait times, it doesn't seem like a 1. Haunted Mansion is 45 mins, Jungle Cruise over 60, Pooh 45m, PP 55, VOTM 35, etc....


----------



## zebrastreyepz

cfw213 said:


> On the disUnplugged podcast today, Deni said she felt it was quite crowded today. Judging by MK wait times, it doesn't seem like a 1. Haunted Mansion is 45 mins, Jungle Cruise over 60, Pooh 45m, PP 55, VOTM 35, etc....


In Kyle's video, everything was pretty much a walk-on except 7DMT w/60 minutes and Space w/20 minutes until around noon.


----------



## luv2cheer92

maryj11 said:


> Just looked over the Genie +.
> Am I the only one who thinks they will like it?
> Then again there will only be 2 in our group. The money would be an issue for a larger group.
> It seems like it will make things easier.


Haven't used it yet, but I've loved the idea of it from day one. And loving it even more after following along today.


----------



## katyringo

luv2cheer92 said:


> Haven't used it yet, but I've loved the idea of it from day one. And loving it even more after following along today.


finding my people finally!


----------



## luv2cheer92

katyringo said:


> finding my people finally!


I sure took a ton of heat from posting my positive view of it when it was announced.


----------



## Disturbia

Kyle Pallo’s video is great.  He is going through options.  He goes through how remove people while booking 

He confirmed youcan choose your time for LLIA$ (SDMT) and he shows the screenshots

He also cancelled Mad Tea party that conflicted and booked something else.  He says it’s better to book Genie+ it’s next available but if it’s not a busy day and attractions are walk ons it’s a waste of time to book Genie+, it’s better to start noon onwards (do book LLIA$ for later).


----------



## jujubiee4

Seems like there will a lot of judgement calls going to use it? Crowd level? Better standby
or purchase?  Wait times accurate? Grab the time now or refresh until better available?

Looking at a couple of videos today I see a lot of people in background looking at their phone.
Reminds me of when I'm at the airport.


----------



## katyringo

luv2cheer92 said:


> I sure took a ton of heat from posting my positive view of it when it was announced.


 I was with you from the start!


----------



## CravesDisney

If LL fills up within seconds, Disney needs to...raise prices. I know Disney is getting flak for adding a monetary aspect to single rides, and I  get it, but I think it is a pretty savvy move - it functions like a market should. If demand outpaces supply, prices rise until demand cools.

Raise prices until LL does not fill up. If you don't want to do LL, go to standby. Fluctuating LL prices will accommodate those who wish to pay more or those who prefer to either rope drop the ride or are willing to wait out stand by lines.

I wish WDW would be willing to charge MORE for LL instead of capping the price. Oh, and G+ shouldn't exist. Go pure a la carte LL for everything. Let us decide what we will pay.

This will get negative feedback, I'm sure, but it's the only way to make sure there is enough availability for LL. This lack of the monetary component is why virtual queue was garbage and didn't work.


----------



## Disturbia

figment do the bart123 said:


> Hey do you have to pay for figment lighting lane or is it free? Do you only have to pay for the popular rides?


Free Genie only gives you suggestions for example, SDMT is usually 90 mins but right now go and wait 60 mins;  Genie+ ($15 per person per day) gives you access to one pass (fast lightening lane) next available but not the most popular. The most popular ones are extra ($7-$15; can only book 2 per day).

you can buy just genie+ OR just LLIA$ (2 most popular rides in each park) or buy both or a combo


----------



## M SH

JETSDAD said:


> ETA, I was able to get Peter Pan from 5:00 down to 3:50 at 3:41.



so can someone book PP for the sake of this example at 3:50, then change it back to 3:40 with refresh?


----------



## MJJME

katyringo said:


> I was with you from the start!


You both deserve the heat!   The cost is insane!

“yeah I would love to pay $1,295 more for my family of 5 for 7 day for a vacation today that I got for free for the last several years!” said nobody ever……….until now.

This system isn’t better than FP+.   Let’s assume you do think it’s better than FP+, is it $1,295 better?  No way Jose

Then take into account DL, they could add Maxpass on to their AP and now they can’t. 

this system blows.


----------



## CravesDisney

If LL fills up within seconds, Disney needs to...raise prices. I know Disney is getting flak for adding a monetary aspect to single rides, and I  get it, but I think it is a pretty savvy move - it functions like a market should. If demand outpaces supply, prices rise until demand cools.

Raise prices until LL does not fill up. If you don't want to do LL, go to standby. Fluctuating LL prices will accommodate those who wish to pay more or those who prefer to either rope drop the ride or are willing to wait out stand by lines.

I wish WDW would be willing to charge MORE for LL instead of capping the price. Oh, and G+ shouldn't exist. Go pure a la carte LL for everything. Let us decide what we will pay.

This will get negative feedback, I'm sure, but it's the only way to make sure there is enough availability for LL. This lack of the monetary component is why virtual queue was garbage and didn't work.


----------



## zebrastreyepz

CravesDisney said:


> If LL fills up within seconds, Disney needs to...raise prices. I know Disney is getting flak for adding a monetary aspect to single rides, and I  get it, but I think it is a pretty savvy move - it functions like a market should. If demand outpaces supply, prices rise until demand cools.
> 
> Raise prices until LL does not fill up. If you don't want to do LL, go to standby. Fluctuating LL prices will accommodate those who wish to pay more or those who prefer to either rope drop the ride or are willing to wait out stand by lines.
> 
> I wish WDW would be willing to charge MORE for LL instead of capping the price. Oh, and G+ shouldn't exist. Go pure a la carte LL for everything. Let us decide what we will pay.
> 
> This will get negative feedback, I'm sure, but it's the only way to make sure there is enough availability for LL. This lack of the monetary component is why virtual queue was garbage and didn't work.


So you suggest paying the entry fee PLUS now paying a la carte like when we used ticket books (Yes, I'm old enough to remember those days)?


----------



## PaladinButters

AnnaKristoff2013 said:


> Within seconds.



Oh no. Imagine paying the money and still not getting a pass for your kids favorite.




CravesDisney said:


> If LL fills up within seconds, Disney needs to...raise prices



Or switch up the rides. Looks like SDD is the one they should be charging for.

**edit - I mean charging individually for, obviously, before somebody points out you have to pay for everything.


----------



## cfw213

cfw213 said:


> On the disUnplugged podcast today, Deni said she felt it was quite crowded today. Judging by MK wait times, it doesn't seem like a 1. Haunted Mansion is 45 mins, Jungle Cruise over 60, Pooh 45m, PP 55, VOTM 35, etc....


I'm interested to see how it works on a more crowded day. Our trip is in 2 weeks so I'm hoping G+ hasn't caught on yet...


----------



## CravesDisney

zebrastreyepz said:


> So you suggest paying the entry fee PLUS now paying a la carte like when we used ticket books (Yes, I'm old enough to remember those days)?


Absolutely. The price is what people will pay for it. The price is what the price is. 

To clarify, I do not think they should charge to get on a ride, but for the speed that LL provides.


----------



## MJJME

I’ll tell you one thing I’m convinced of, Boarding Groups are gone for good.  It will be paid or standby and RemRat will be standby within weeks


----------



## Disturbia

jujubiee4 said:


> I wonder how much Disney will make off this ? Even for today?


They already opened their champagne bottles at noon


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

PaladinButters said:


> Oh no. Imagine paying the money and still not getting a pass for your kids favorite.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or switch up the rides. Looks like SDD is the one they should be charging for.
> 
> **edit - I mean charging individually for, obviously, before somebody points out you have to pay for everything.


If SDD I was ILL$ then nobody would buy Genie+ on their HS day.  There’s a reason SDD is on Genie+.


----------



## DavidNYC

M SH said:


> so can someone book PP for the sake of this example at 3:50, then change it back to 3:40 with refresh?


Reports are when you’ve actually booked it you cannot. You can refresh before you confirm the time and cross your fingers.  Once booked - you’d have to cancel and rebook and hope the earlier time is still there. You can’t just modify.


----------



## Disturbia

figment do the bart123 said:


> Hey do you have to pay for figment lighting lane or is it free? Do you only have to pay for the popular rides?


https://www-wfla-com.cdn.ampproject...021/10/listofattractions-1.jpg?resize=768,432


----------



## Sjm9911

CravesDisney said:


> If LL fills up within seconds, Disney needs to...raise prices. I know Disney is getting flak for adding a monetary aspect to single rides, and I  get it, but I think it is a pretty savvy move - it functions like a market should. If demand outpaces supply, prices rise until demand cools.
> 
> Raise prices until LL does not fill up. If you don't want to do LL, go to standby. Fluctuating LL prices will accommodate those who wish to pay more or those who prefer to either rope drop the ride or are willing to wait out stand by lines.
> 
> I wish WDW would be willing to charge MORE for LL instead of capping the price. Oh, and G+ shouldn't exist. Go pure a la carte LL for everything. Let us decide what we will pay.
> 
> This will get negative feedback, I'm sure, but it's the only way to make sure there is enough availability for LL. This lack of the monetary component is why virtual queue was garbage and didn't work.


Why do that, just charge 50 bucks a ride and no admission. That seems fair. They do it this way because you allready paid to go in. On that note make a ticket 1000 and you will have less people go. But the whole point of disney isnt who can outspend who. Its was created as a way for families to enjoy a day together. Not just rich families.  If you want to pay more and get more out of it with less wait book a private tour. That way you skip over all the lines.


----------



## katyringo

MJJME said:


> You both deserve the heat!   The cost is insane!
> 
> “yeah I would love to pay $1,295 more for my family of 5 for 7 day for a vacation today that I got for free for the last several years!” said nobody ever……….until now.


Already budgeted for my family disneyland trip. We always bought maxpass before.


----------



## Disturbia

PaladinButters said:


> Oh no. Imagine paying the money and still not getting a pass for your kids favorite.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Or switch up the rides. Looks like SDD is the one they should be charging for.
> 
> **edit - I mean charging individually for, obviously, before somebody points out you have to pay for everything.


Shhhhhh don’t let the Genie hear you


----------



## leeniewdw

Gretch128 said:


> You’ll be able to select everyone in your group even if they are different rooms.  If they are all linked under family and friends and you have permission to make their plans on MDE, you’re good to go.
> 
> You can have up to 6 different credit/debit cards on file with one on default, but you are given a drop down list to change to different card at checkout.  Or you can pay with gift card.  We are 3 groups of adult siblings/spouses and don’t want to all be on one card.  Sucks it has to be so complicated!  But saw suggestion of Venmo, so that is a good idea too.



For us, it'll be our card across all 3 groups, so that's fine.  I just wondered how it works when adding the IL$ choices.  I guess what you are saying is that in your scenario, you'll be making the selections and because of that, YOU'LL be paying the fee (thus the GC or Venmo)?  Am I following?    For me, I just want to make sure I can make those selections at all.   The payment part of this is so odd because what if you've got a multiple party group and there's a misunderstanding about what's the IL$ choice of the day, etc.   I mean the cost and limited slot factor make it different than FP+.  I'm not worried about that in our scenario (and it doesn't sound like it for you), but I was concerned that any safeguards they'd put in might make it harder for the kind of planning both of us are doing.


----------



## MJJME

katyringo said:


> Already budgeted for my family disneyland trip. We always bought maxpass before.


This is over 3x the cost


----------



## Disturbia

it will be $1200-1400 for us as well, but we saved by downgrading from AKV-kidani ($909 per night) to AOA Nemo ($505).  I don’t mind that people who are paying that much money at deluxe resorts get a few extra extended evening hours.  For us, our kids won’t stay up that late.


----------



## M SH

DavidNYC said:


> Reports are when you’ve actually booked it you cannot. You can refresh before you confirm the time and cross your fingers.  Once booked - you’d have to cancel and rebook and hope the earlier time is still there. You can’t just modify.



that's unfortunate.. the cross your fingers part worries me a lot.
with FP+ that was the best part about refreshing is that you have a guaranteed return time if something earlier does not show up.


----------



## Disturbia

Whether we like it or not, this is what we have right now


----------



## katyringo

MJJME said:


> This is over 3x the cost


how is it 3x the cost? maxpass was 20 per day per person....


----------



## MJJME

Disturbia said:


> it will be $1200-1400 for us as well, but we saved by downgrading from AKV-kidani ($909 per night) to AOA Nemo ($505).  I don’t mind that people who are paying that much money at deluxe resorts get a few extra extended evening hours.  For us, our kids won’t stay up that late.


I think this will spill across all Disney including people staying offsite very onsite.  

penny wise pound foolish


----------



## MJJME

katyringo said:


> how is it 3x the cost? maxpass was 20 per day per person....


Actually MaxPass Was $15, now it’s $20 and now you would have to pay for multiple IAS passes to get the same benefit so it’s actually closer to 4x higher


----------



## katyringo

MJJME said:


> It was $15, now it’s $20 and now you would have to pay for multiple IAS passes to get the same benefit so it’s actually closer to 4x higher


genie + is still $15 at WDW..


----------



## katyringo

MJJME said:


> He said MaxPass.  What did you pay for MaxPass at WDW?
> 
> read the post
> 
> WDW never had Maxpass



they said this was 3x the cost of maxpass which is not true. It's actually cheaper at WDW.


----------



## Avery&Todd

appleorchard said:


> I have the exact same concern about military tickets. We get in late on Monday night, around 830 pm. Our first day is Magic KIngdom, where just activating the tickets takes forever. Add trying to get a bus from BOardwalk that morning, and it’ll be way past 7 am before we can buy Genie+ at all. I’m hoping there’s a workaround to this! We do have an on-site reservation and the tickets in MDE, they’re just not activated yet.


OK - I just chatted with a CM and this is how they explained buying Genie + with my unactivated APs....

I will be able to purchase Genie + after midnight on the day we arrive since we have an active park reservation for that day, then at 7am I will be able to then select our first LL attraction.  Once we arrive and head to MK we'll need to activate our APs and then all will be good.

and I asked "Ellen" twice - and both times she said that I CAN buy Genie + and select my 1st LL attractions on our arrival day since the system knows I have a valid park reservation and an on-site hotel reservation.

I would assume that this would be the same for you, right?

I just can't buy Genie+ now, which is what the pre-planner in me really wants to do, and the morning we fly out I'll need to get up a little early and deal with Genie + and then while I'm trying to board my plane to fly to MCO I'll be reserving my LL attraction!


----------



## Gretch128

leeniewdw said:


> For us, it'll be our card across all 3 groups, so that's fine.  I just wondered how it works when adding the IL$ choices.  I guess what you are saying is that in your scenario, you'll be making the selections and because of that, YOU'LL be paying the fee (thus the GC or Venmo)?  Am I following?    For me, I just want to make sure I can make those selections at all.   The payment part of this is so odd because what if you've got a multiple party group and there's a misunderstanding about what's the IL$ choice of the day, etc.   I mean the cost and limited slot factor make it different than FP+.  I'm not worried about that in our scenario (and it doesn't sound like it for you), but I was concerned that any safeguards they'd put in might make it harder for the kind of planning both of us are doing.



Yeah, I don’t want to be stuck paying for everyone.  You know how siblings can be about paying you back.

The MDE site is glitchy for me right now (top tips says something went wrong), but when I planned out my day using the free Genie, I could select everyone, despite 3 room bookings but all linked under one account email.  Im assuming in the Genie+ version, they can be selected too then.  Do you have everyone linked on your MDE so you can access their plans?  If only someone went today that has our scenario type. 

I’m going to WDW in 2 weeks so I’ll know soon anyway haha


----------



## MJJME

katyringo said:


> they said this was 3x the cost of maxpass which is not true. It's actually cheaper at WDW.


Lol.   You’re right, it’s 4x


----------



## leeniewdw

Gretch128 said:


> The MDE site is glitchy for me right now (top tips says something went wrong), but when I planned out my day using the free Genie, I could select everyone, despite 3 room bookings but all linked under one account email.  Im assuming in the Genie+ version, they can be selected too then.  Do you have everyone linked on your MDE so you can access then plans?  If only someone went today that has our scenario type.
> 
> I’m going to WDW in 2 weeks so I’ll know soon anyway haha



I have all the people in the 3 rooms showing as my friends and family.  When I made the reservations, they insisted that the email on the other rooms must be occupants of that room,so the reservations are under them (with my CC) but we're all linked in MDE (at least last time I checked lol).

I will have to open the app and see what's up there with the new stuff.  We don't go until Feb, so no urgency unlike you!


----------



## pineapplepalms

katyringo said:


> how is it 3x the cost? maxpass was 20 per day per person....



 Another difference is that you could add on MP as an AP annual add-on and you didn’t have to pay per day. It was also included for the highest level of AP. I’m really, really hoping they introduce something similar for G+ later on.


----------



## MJJME

MJJME said:


> Maxpass was $15, it’s now $20 PlUS you now have to pay for more rides.  Not too difficult a concept to understand


Used to cost $15 for Maxpass. Now costs $50+.  Thats 3x-4x more.  Don’t need to be a math genius


----------



## Gretch128

leeniewdw said:


> I have all the people in the 3 rooms showing as my friends and family.  When I made the reservations, they insisted that the email on the other rooms must be occupants of that room,so the reservations are under them (with my CC) but we're all linked in MDE (at least last time I checked lol).
> 
> I will have to open the app and see what's up there with the new stuff.  We don't go until Feb, so no urgency unlike you!



well, I’d say itll work then but I guess I’ll be the guinea pig!  

Now to figure out that Top Tips glitch on the app where it says Something Went Wrong…


----------



## pineapplepalms

Has anyone seen confirmation of whether you can stack multiple overlapping G+? So fo example, select SDD for 5:30-6:30pm and also TSMM at 5-6pm? You used to be able to do that with MP.


----------



## katyringo

MJJME said:


> Used to cost $15 for Maxpass. Now costs $50+.  Thats 3x-4x more.  Don’t need to be a math genius


Maxpass was $20 before parks closed for Covid.


----------



## luv2cheer92

MJJME said:


> Used to cost $15 for Maxpass. Now costs $50+.  Thats 3x-4x more.  Don’t need to be a math genius


Maxpass was $20 before the parks closed.
Haha jinx @katyringo


----------



## MJJME

katyringo said:


> they said this was 3x the cost of maxpass which is not true. It's actually cheaper at WDW.


“This” is Genie+ and it is.


----------



## Disturbia

MJJME said:


> I think this will spill across all Disney including people staying offsite very onsite.
> 
> penny wise pound foolish


We planned to stay at AKL without Genie+ or extended hours.


----------



## MJJME

luv2cheer92 said:


> Maxpass was $20 before the parks closed.
> Haha jinx @katyringo


Ok so 2 1/2x-3x more.  Still more.  Please stop with the math lessons.

point of the post is it’s WAY more expensive for a lesser product and experience


----------



## tseitel

pineapplepalms said:


> Has anyone seen confirmation of whether you can stack multiple overlapping G+? So fo example, select SDD for 5:30-6:30pm and also TSMM at 5-6pm? You used to be able to do that with MP.



i was not able to do this.   I could only pick one, then when I scanned in for that one I immediately made another


----------



## snikki

Disturbia said:


> it will be $1200-1400 for us as well, but we saved by downgrading from AKV-kidani ($909 per night) to AOA Nemo ($505).  I don’t mind that people who are paying that much money at deluxe resorts get a few extra extended evening hours.  For us, our kids won’t stay up that late.



We will be staying moderate and booking less TS meals to save some money. I’m actually fine with it since we’ve always wanted to stay at CSR and there are so many QS places (hello Epcot) we’ve wanted to try but get sucked into ADRs. I’ll use the cash for ILL and some G+ days.


----------



## snikki

pineapplepalms said:


> Has anyone seen confirmation of whether you can stack multiple overlapping G+? So fo example, select SDD for 5:30-6:30pm and also TSMM at 5-6pm? You used to be able to do that with MP.



Someone did this with the ILL. I think back on page 202 or 203.


----------



## katyringo

MJJME said:


> Ok so 2 1/2x-3x more.  Still more.  Please stop with the math lessons.
> 
> point of the post is it’s WAY more expensive for a lesser product and experience


Subjective. I like it better than fastpass plus. I am paying for something I like better.


----------



## Disturbia

MJJME said:


> Maxpass was $15, it’s now $20 PlUS you now have to pay for more rides.  Not too difficult a concept to understand


You pay more for less rides actually.  Sorry for adding fuel to the fire


----------



## JETSDAD

M SH said:


> so can someone book PP for the sake of this example at 3:50, then change it back to 3:40 with refresh?


As someone else responded, you can't modify an existing selection and would have to drop the current one to go back and get the new time (it would likely be gone by then).  It works well though when you don't have anything selected already.


----------



## pineapplepalms

tseitel said:


> i was not able to do this.   I could only pick one, then when I scanned in for that one I immediately made another



What about with stacking? For example, if you booked SDD at 11am for 4-5pm because that’s the available slot. At 1pm you can start booking other ones, so say you try for TSMM - could you book it if it’s 3:30-4:30pm and overlaps with your previously booked G+?

EDIT: I just found a source stating you can stack multiple overlapping G+ selections. That would work like MP and I’m much happier seeing it work this way.


----------



## Jonfw2

I sincerely think the worst part about Genie+ for some people is that so far it appears to be working fine.


----------



## Disturbia

I think Genie+ Passes can’t overlap but someone booked 2 LL and first Genie+ Overlapping

everyone here is using stackable as in booking multiple genie+ reservations if your next available that you booked is over 2 hours away


----------



## travelgirl77

Avery&Todd said:


> OK - I just chatted with a CM and this is how they explained buying Genie + with my unactivated APs....
> 
> I will be able to purchase Genie + after midnight on the day we arrive since we have an active park reservation for that day, then at 7am I will be able to then select our first LL attraction.  Once we arrive and head to MK we'll need to activate our APs and then all will be good.
> 
> and I asked "Ellen" twice - and both times she said that I CAN buy Genie + and select my 1st LL attractions on our arrival day since the system knows I have a valid park reservation and an on-site hotel reservation.
> 
> I would assume that this would be the same for you, right?
> 
> I just can't buy Genie+ now, which is what the pre-planner in me really wants to do, and the morning we fly out I'll need to get up a little early and deal with Genie + and then while I'm trying to board my plane to fly to MCO I'll be reserving my LL attraction!


 Thanks for this.  We are in the same military tix boat and I just wanted everything ready ahead of time.  Once things cool off a bit, I may try to call and have them walk me through exactly what I need to do.  Hopefully, they give me the same directions as they provided to you, although I do not love the idea of purchasing it after midnight and being ready to go live at 7:00 am during Thanksgiving week.  Just trying not to panic.


----------



## MJJME

katyringo said:


> they said this was 3x the cost of maxpass which is not true. It's actually cheaper at WDW.


The comparison is Maxpass at DL vs Genie+ at DL.  
Has nothing to do with WDW


----------



## Meglen

On twitter there is a HUGE line for RotR IAS. If i payed for IAS and than had to wait 45-2 hours to ride... I would be really mad.


----------



## MJJME

Meglen said:


> On twitter there is a HUGE line for RotR IAS. If i payed for IAS and than had to wait 45-2 hours to ride... I would be really mad.


Probably because it was down 2x today so they likely had to give out anytime return FP’s


----------



## jahudso0

Jonfw2 said:


> I sincerely think the worst part about Genie+ for some people is that so far it appears to be working fine.


For all the moaning people did, you’re exactly right.  I’ve been erroring out all day, but others seem to be having the best day ever.


----------



## JoJoGirl

Avery&Todd said:


> OK - I just chatted with a CM and this is how they explained buying Genie + with my unactivated APs....
> 
> I will be able to purchase Genie + after midnight on the day we arrive since we have an active park reservation for that day, then at 7am I will be able to then select our first LL attraction.  Once we arrive and head to MK we'll need to activate our APs and then all will be good.
> 
> and I asked "Ellen" twice - and both times she said that I CAN buy Genie + and select my 1st LL attractions on our arrival day since the system knows I have a valid park reservation and an on-site hotel reservation.
> 
> I would assume that this would be the same for you, right?
> 
> I just can't buy Genie+ now, which is what the pre-planner in me really wants to do, and the morning we fly out I'll need to get up a little early and deal with Genie + and then while I'm trying to board my plane to fly to MCO I'll be reserving my LL attraction!



Thanks for the info!  I’m in the same situation with an 7:10 am flight. It’s good to know that this will work for us!


----------



## Gretch128

Fixed my Top Tips issue with the ‘something went wrong’ error.  So, I live in Ireland.  I used a VPN on my phone to say I was in the USA right now, and reopened the Top Tips tabs…it worked!  This may help other EU/UK/Canadian disney lovers with getting the app to work for them if they are struggling


----------



## gharter

Did Genie + today and a few thoughts.
Overall, it worked better than expected.  However, there was no training and its not intuitive to use. Once you learn where thing are, it works, but it cost me valuable time this morning.
It also went down several times today.  Sadly, not unexpected, but still happens too often.
Pros:
Lightening lane worked as it should.
Mobile ordering still worked.
Purchasing the individual rides worked as promised.

Cons:  And these are my BIG points.
No way to pick your time for an attraction that I can find. You are given a time and you take or don't.
No way to modify a time like you could in FP+.  Hoping they fix this soon.
Only able to do an attraction once with Genie + -WHY?  I knew this before, but still makes no sense.
Cancelling a Lightening Lane pass is not easy.

Was at HS today and RoTR went down.  When it came back up, there was a huge backlog of people who purchased the pass for the ride.

Compared to FP+, we got no where near the number of passes we did with Genie + that we did with FP +.  Just an honest observation.  As expected, when doing an attraction with stand by or IAS, the stand by line moved much slower than it did before Lightening lane arrived. 

As of 4 pm, only RoTR is sold out of individual passes. I can get about any time still for the other rides that are individual purchases.


----------



## JETSDAD

Even if a G+LL is sold out just keep refreshing for those rides.


----------



## tseitel

pineapplepalms said:


> What about with stacking? For example, if you booked SDD at 11am for 4-5pm because that’s the available slot. At 1pm you can start booking other ones, so say you try for TSMM - could you book it if it’s 3:30-4:30pm and overlaps with your previously booked G+?
> 
> EDIT: I just found a source stating you can stack multiple overlapping G+ selections. That would work like MP and I’m much happier seeing it work this way.



im not really sure. I just know I tried to book another, not even overlapping, and I was unable to make another selection even though I was past the 120 minutes from when I booked the 1st one.


----------



## georgina

PaladinButters said:


> Or switch up the rides. Looks like SDD is the one they should be charging for.


I was really surprised SDD wasn't one of the ILL rides. We waited about 45 mins for MMRR last month, but that was only because we hadn't done it before. No way would I Pay for it!


----------



## tseitel

gharter said:


> Did Genie + today and a few thoughts.
> Overall, it worked better than expected.  However, there was no training and its not intuitive to use. Once you learn where thing are, it works, but it cost me valuable time this morning.
> It also went down several times today.  Sadly, not unexpected, but still happens too often.
> Pros:
> Lightening lane worked as it should.
> Mobile ordering still worked.
> Purchasing the individual rides worked as promised.
> 
> Cons:  And these are my BIG points.
> No way to pick your time for an attraction that I can find. You are given a time and you take or don't.
> No way to modify a time like you could in FP+.  Hoping they fix this soon.
> Only able to do an attraction once with Genie + -WHY?  I knew this before, but still makes no sense.
> Cancelling a Lightening Lane pass is not easy.
> 
> Was at HS today and RoTR went down.  When it came back up, there was a huge backlog of people who purchased the pass for the ride.
> 
> As of 4 pm, only RoTR is sold out of individual passes. I can get about any time still for the other rides that are individual purchases.



Pretty accurate. I was in MK today with it. I really didn’t like not being able to choose my time, or have a few times to choose from. I think this causes way more cris crossing in the park. Not sure if it was because it being the 1st day, but every lightning lane I did was a walk on, no wait- and I have waited in some fast past lanes. But this new system will get expensive real quick for a family. 
For the extra $ selection 7 Dwarfs was $10 and Space was $7 fyi.


----------



## JakeAZ

gharter said:


> Did Genie + today and a few thoughts.
> Overall, it worked better than expected.  However, there was no training and its not intuitive to use. Once you learn where thing are, it works, but it cost me valuable time this morning.
> It also went down several times today.  Sadly, not unexpected, but still happens too often.
> Pros:
> Lightening lane worked as it should.
> Mobile ordering still worked.
> Purchasing the individual rides worked as promised.
> 
> Cons:  And these are my BIG points.
> No way to pick your time for an attraction that I can find. You are given a time and you take or don't.
> No way to modify a time like you could in FP+.  Hoping they fix this soon.
> Only able to do an attraction once with Genie + -WHY?  I knew this before, but still makes no sense.
> Cancelling a Lightening Lane pass is not easy.
> 
> Was at HS today and RoTR went down.  When it came back up, there was a huge backlog of people who purchased the pass for the ride.
> 
> Compared to FP+, we got no where near the number of passes we did with Genie + that we did with FP +.  Just an honest observation.  As expected, when doing an attraction with stand by or IAS, the stand by line moved much slower than it did before Lightening lane arrived.
> 
> As of 4 pm, only RoTR is sold out of individual passes. I can get about any time still for the other rides that are individual purchases.


Very helpful and informative.  Thanks!


----------



## kilik64

georgina said:


> I was really surprised SDD wasn't one of the ILL rides. We waited about 45 mins for MMRR last month, but that was only because we hadn't done it before. No way would I Pay for it!


More likely to buy G+ with SDD on it vs MMRR, they did that on purpose to make G+ more enticing. The stand by for MMRR is pretty much always lower than the wait for SDD too.


----------



## Sunelis

Gretch128 said:


> Fixed my Top Tips issue with the ‘something went wrong’ error.  So, I live in Ireland.  I used a VPN on my phone to say I was in the USA right now, and reopened the Top Tips tabs…it worked!  This may help other EU/UK disney lovers with getting the app to work for them if they are struggling


Thanks that worked for me too in Canada.


----------



## JakeAZ

georgina said:


> I was really surprised SDD wasn't one of the ILL rides. We waited about 45 mins for MMRR last month, but that was only because we hadn't done it before. No way would I Pay for it!


This was a big shock to me too!


----------



## gharter

pineapplepalms said:


> What about with stacking? For example, if you booked SDD at 11am for 4-5pm because that’s the available slot. At 1pm you can start booking other ones, so say you try for TSMM - could you book it if it’s 3:30-4:30pm and overlaps with your previously booked G+?
> 
> EDIT: I just found a source stating you can stack multiple overlapping G+ selections. That would work like MP and I’m much happier seeing it work this way.


Tried this at HS and it kept telling me I couldn't as I had another pass.  Would have been happier had this worked.


----------



## CWTC

gharter said:


> Tried this at HS and it kept telling me I couldn't as I had another pass.  Would have been happier had this worked.


We were able to do so - in fact the app even counted down for us.  I tried at 101pm and it told me we were not eligible until 103pm (booked TT for 330-430 at 1103am, then we would have been allowed to book another if we had wanted to).


----------



## jujubiee4

gharter said:


> *Compared to FP+, we got no where near the number of passes we did with Genie + that we did with FP +*.  Just an honest observation.  As expected, when doing an attraction with stand by or IAS, the stand by line moved much slower than it did before Lightening lane arrived.



So how many rides were you able to get on with Genie+?


----------



## jsbowl16

Has anyone tried Genie+ out with park hopping in the afternoon today? We are people that go in the summer and do rope drop to lunch time, then relax at the resort until dinner and then go until park close. Are there a lot of options left for the second park around noon or 1pm?


----------



## margaritabnl

So I bought my 1 day 1 park tickets online a few days ago (before I knew about this Genie thing) and received an email confirmation. Yesterday I started digging around to prepare as it's been 15 years since I've been to WDW and this app and Genie thing......wow!

How do I get my tickets to show on the app? I can see the days I reserved the 2 parks we're going to. I'm assuming I need to go to the counter with a print out ticket confirmation and I'm good to go in. But how does the checked ticket (???) tie to my phone so I can activate the Genie and will I be able to add my credit card to the app?

I HATE the thought of constantly looking at my phone to utilize the app and the Genie.


----------



## gharter

jujubiee4 said:


> So how many rides were you able to get on with Genie+?


We did 5.  But we also were in the RoTR line at 8:30 and then did IAS at 3:30 for RoTR. And RIse went down early afternoon, so the IAS line was much longer than expected.   So that had some impact.  But as of 7:05 this am the earliest SDD was available was after 5 pm.  By 2 pm, most rides were after 6 pm.  Had we stayed later, we could have gotten more.  But compared to FP+, in the same time, it was fewer passes.


----------



## JakeAZ

CWTC said:


> We were able to do so - in fact the app even counted down for us.  I tried at 101pm and it told me we were not eligible until 103pm (booked TT for 330-430 at 1103am, then we would have been allowed to book another if we had wanted to).


I think the OP was saying you could book another after 120 min, but you can't overlap windows.  You had TT for 3:30-4:30.  Would the app have allowed you to book another ride with a 4-5 window?


----------



## katyringo

Summary of what I learned today!


*Buying genie +*

You can purchase genie+ in two ways. You can buy it the day off after midnight or you can add it to your vacation package ticket. If you add it to your package you have to commit to it for every day you have a ticket.

*120 minute rule*

The 120 minute rule comes into play 2 different ways. The first way is if you book a genie+ at 7am for more than 2 hours after park opening you can make another selection 2 hours after the park opens.

The second way is once the park is open. Once the park has been open and you make a selection that is more than 2 hours away you can make another one in 2 hours.

*7am rule for off site*

If you are staying off site you can make Genie+ reservations at 7am BUT YOU CANNOT MAKE INDIVIDUAL LIGHTNING LANE SELECTIONS UNTIL PARK
OPENING. Park opening of the park you are buying for. If you are buying Remy and are off site, you can buy Remy when Epcot opens.

*7am rule for on site*

If you are staying on site you can make BOTH an individual lightning lane selection and genie+ selection at 7am.

*Refreshing*

You can refresh the my tips page to try and get earlier or different times offered to you. However you CANNOT cancel or modify an individual lightning lane pass.

You can cancel a genie+ pass and book another one.  You cannot modify an existing one.

*Park hopping*

The app recognizes your park hopper. You can book genie+ selections in other parks after 2pm. You can also make Individual lightning lane selections for other parks at 7am(onsite) or park opening (offsite).

*Choosing a time*

For genie+ you have to pick the time the app gives you.

For individual lightning lane the app will show a time BUT you can click on it and then will be able to choose from all available times.

You can buy both lightning lane selections at the same time.

*Stacking*

Stacking is confirmed possible and you can hold multiple Genie+ selections at a time. You can also hold virtual que, individual lightening lane and genie+ selections all at the same time.

*Virtual que *

Right now Remy is the only ride with the virtual que and the drop is at 7 and 1pm.  You can use this along with individual lightning  lane and genie+.  You can use virtual que and individual lightning lane for the same ride.

*Patterns from day 1*


Hollywood studios saw rides run out of passes. Rise ran out of individual lightning lanes by 945 and slinky dog and smugglers ran out of genie+ early afternoon.

Magic kingdom saw jungle cruise run out of genie+.  Individual lightning lane passes for SDMT and space have not run out. Most return times are right away/ next hour at this moment.

Epcot nothing had run out and return times are right away/next hour.

AK nothing had run out and return times are right away/next hour.


*What happens if the ride is down*

It seems when a ride is down a ride anytime pass is issued.


----------



## pineapplepalms

JakeAZ said:


> I think the OP was saying you could book another after 120 min, but you can't overlap windows.  You had TT for 3:30-4:30.  Would the app have allowed you to book another ride with a 4-5 window?








They talk about this around the 15:00 mark. So happy to see this, now the only big things I don’t love are the lack of AP add-on and not being able to rebook the same ride.


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

luv2cheer92 said:


> Lol, the only one doing (incorrect) math lessons is you.


No, he’s right.  You’re forgetting to add in the cost of the ILL$ attractions.  That’s on top of the Genie+ base price.  You need to add that to compare the experience eyou coudl get previously with maxpass.


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

Meglen said:


> On twitter there is a HUGE line for RotR IAS. If i payed for IAS and than had to wait 45-2 hours to ride... I would be really mad.


Disney doesn’t care about guest satisfaction anymore.  They got the money for those ILL$ purchases, they’re good.


----------



## CWTC

JakeAZ said:


> I think the OP was saying you could book another after 120 min, but you can't overlap windows.  You had TT for 3:30-4:30.  Would the app have allowed you to book another ride with a 4-5 window?


My bad then. Misunderstood the question.


----------



## Lsyves

What does IAS stand for?


----------



## snikki

Nvm. It’s been confirmed.


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

Lsyves said:


> What does IAS stand for?


Individual Attraction Selection.  It was changed to ILL$ (Individual Lightning Lane Selection)


----------



## HappyDisneyWife

katyringo said:


> Summary of what I learned today!


Thank you SO MUCH!!!  This is incredibly helpful (& should probably be made into a sticky! )


----------



## wisblue

Is anyone else having problems with park reservations disappearing from the app?

I was playing around with the free Genie part of the app to select favorite attractions for the 3 days of our  trip in November for which everyone in our party of 4 has park reservations. All of the reservations show when I look at My Plans on the website.

On the app when I tried to select members of my party I got a message that nobody had a valid park reservation on those days. 

Hopefully this is one of those things that will sort itself out as they do refreshes of the app and coordinate it with the reservation system.


----------



## JakeAZ

katyringo said:


> The first way is if you book a genie+ at 7am for more than 2 hours after park opening you can make another selection 2 hours after the park opens.


So, if my first LL is more than 2 hours after the park open, I have to wait 120 min from park open to book another one (ie if at 7:30am I make a LL for a ride at 11:30am, I can't book another one until 11:00am, if park opens at 9am)?

But, if my first LL is within 2 hours of the park opening, I can book another one 120 min later (ie 7am first one, 9am second one)?


----------



## mshanson3121

katyringo said:


> Summary of what I learned today!
> 
> 
> 
> *120 minute rule*
> 
> The 120 minute rule comes into play 2 different ways. The first way is if you book a genie+ at 7am for more than 2 hours after park opening you can make another selection 2 hours after the park opens.
> 
> The second way is once the park is open. Once the park has been open and you make a selection that is more than 2 hours away you can make another one in 2 hours.
> 
> *Stacking*
> 
> Stacking is confirmed possible and you can hold multiple Genie+ selections at a time. You can also hold virtual que, individual lightening lane and genie+ selections all at the same time.
> 
> *Patterns from day 1*
> 
> 
> Hollywood studios saw rides run out of passes. Rise ran out of individual lightening lanes by 945 and slinky dog and smugglers ran out of genie+ early afternoon.
> 
> Magic kingdom saw jungle cruise run out of genie+.  Individual lightening lane passes for SDMT and space have not run out. Most return times are right away/ next hour at this moment.
> 
> Epcot nothing had run out and return times are right away/next hour.
> 
> AK nothing had run out and return times are right away/next hour.



So if you make a GP+ at 7 am for 11 am, you won't be able to book another GP+ until 11 am. However, if I make a GP+ at 7 am for 10 am, I can make another GP+ as soon as I tap into the ride?

By stacking, I assume you mean I could have a ride for 2:25 but get another one for 4:45 even before I've gone on the 2:25 one..or what exactly is stacking and how does it work?

As far as availability... Basically there's a good chance that in busy season GP+ could be pretty useless, especially for people who take afternoon breaks.


----------



## Jrb1979

JakeAZ said:


> So, if my first LL is more than 2 hours after the park open, I have to wait 120 min from park open to book another one (ie if at 7:30am I make a LL for a ride at 11:30am, I can't book another one until 11:00am, if park opens at 9am)?
> 
> But, if my first LL is within 2 hours of the park opening, I can book another one 120 min later (ie 7am first one, 9am second one)?


It's 120 minutes from park opening regardless. If your first LL is before 11am you can book your next one once tapping in for your first one.


----------



## katyringo

mshanson3121 said:


> So if you make a GP+ at 7 am for 11 am, you won't be able to book another GP+ until 11 am. However, if I make a GP+ at 7 am for 10 am, I can make another GP+ as soon as I tap into the ride?
> 
> By stacking, I assume you mean I could have a ride for 2:25 but get another one for 4:45 even before I've gone on the 2:25 one..or what exactly is stacking and how does it work?
> 
> As far as availability... Basically there's a good chance that in busy season GP+ could be pretty useless, especially for people who take afternoon breaks.



Correct and correct.

I don't think it will be useless I think you have to learn to use it to fit your touring style.


----------



## Garyjames220

katyringo said:


> Summary of what I learned today!
> 
> 
> *Buying genie +*
> 
> You can purchase genie+ in two ways. You can buy it the day off after midnight or you can add it to your vacation package ticket. If you add it to your package you have to commit to it for every day you have a ticket.
> 
> *120 minute rule*
> 
> The 120 minute rule comes into play 2 different ways. The first way is if you book a genie+ at 7am for more than 2 hours after park opening you can make another selection 2 hours after the park opens.
> 
> The second way is once the park is open. Once the park has been open and you make a selection that is more than 2 hours away you can make another one in 2 hours.
> 
> *7am rule for off site*
> 
> If you are staying off site you can make Genie+ reservations at 7am BUT YOU CANNOT MAKE INDIVIDUAL LIGHTENING LANE SELECTIONS UNTIL PARK
> OPENING. I believe this is park opening for the park you have a reservation.
> 
> *7am rule for on site*
> 
> If you are staying on site you can make BOTH an individual lightening lane selection and genie+ selection at 7am.
> 
> *Refreshing*
> 
> You can refresh the my tips page to try and get earlier or different times offered to you. However you CANNOT cancel or modify an individual lightening lane pass.
> 
> You can cancel a genie+ pass and book another one.  You cannot modify an existing one.
> 
> *Park hopping*
> 
> The app recognizes your park hopper. You can book genie+ selections in other parks after 2pm. You can also make Individual lightening lane selections for other parks at 7am(onsite) or park opening (offsite).
> 
> *Choosing a time*
> 
> For genie+ you have to pick the time the app gives you.
> 
> For individual lightening lane the app will show a time BUT you can click on it and then will be able to choose from all available times.
> 
> You can buy both lightening lane selections at the same time.
> 
> *Stacking*
> 
> Stacking is confirmed possible and you can hold multiple Genie+ selections at a time. You can also hold virtual que, individual lightening lane and genie+ selections all at the same time.
> 
> *Virtual que *
> 
> Right now Remy is the only ride with the virtual que and the drop is at 7 and 1pm.  You can use this along with individual lightening lane and genie+.  You can use virtual que and individual lightening lane for the same ride.
> 
> *Patterns from day 1*
> 
> 
> Hollywood studios saw rides run out of passes. Rise ran out of individual lightening lanes by 945 and slinky dog and smugglers ran out of genie+ early afternoon.
> 
> Magic kingdom saw jungle cruise run out of genie+.  Individual lightening lane passes for SDMT and space have not run out. Most return times are right away/ next hour at this moment.
> 
> Epcot nothing had run out and return times are right away/next hour.
> 
> AK nothing had run out and return times are right away/next hour.
> 
> 
> *What happens if the ride is down*
> 
> It seems when a ride is down a ride anytime pass is issued.



is the ride anytime pass if a ride is down for the same day only


----------



## Jrb1979

Garyjames220 said:


> is the ride anytime pass if a ride is down for the same day only


I would assume so.


----------



## JakeAZ

Jrb1979 said:


> It's 120 minutes from park opening regardless. If your first LL is before 11am you can book your next one once tapping in for your first one.


Wait, so if I book my first one for a ride at 10:45am and the park opens at 9am, I can't book again until I tap in at 10:45am?  almost 4 hours after I booked my first one?


----------



## katyringo

JakeAZ said:


> Wait, so if I book my first one for a ride at 10:45am and the park opens at 9am, I can't book again until I tap in at 10:45am?  almost 4 hours after I booked my first one?


 Correct.


----------



## MainMom

LSUfan4444 said:


> Just wanted to update the TouringPlans (aka - The REAL Disney genie) expected wait times for some popular MK attractions
> 
> Thunder Mnt - 12 minutes
> Buzz - 18 minutes
> Jungle Cruise - 53 minutes
> Peter Pan - 64 minutes
> Pirates - 12 minutes
> Mine Train - 43 minutes
> Space  - 22 minutes
> Splash - 20 minutes
> Haunted Mansion - 21 minutes
> Pooh - 24 minutes
> Speedway - 20 minutes
> People Mover - 13 minutes


I would not buy genie+ for this. Even if I got 2 of these. The $15 to skip 2 20 minute lines…not worth it for me. So far HS is looking like the only park we might want Genie+ for.


----------



## JakeAZ

katyringo said:


> Correct.


So dumb

Restrictions were easier to swallow when things were "free"

Can't book 120 min after first section
Can't re-ride
Can't pick your time.  I have to imagine this one will result in picking rides you don't necessarily want, but are close to, unless you want to criss cross the parks

But you can pay for these new restrictions.


----------



## Dis Dragon

Disregard.

Being able to pickup a second Genie+ at 9am should be a perk of staying on property imo.  There's so little anymore.


----------



## snikki

Dis Dragon said:


> This isn't how I heard it - if you book one at 7am, you can book your next at 9am regardless what time your first one is.  Maybe I'm not understanding the question - but it's 120 minutes from your last booking NOT park opening.



It is 120 minutes from park opening. It’s been confirmed by multiple people.


----------



## katyringo

Dis Dragon said:


> This isn't how I heard it - if you book one at 7am, you can book your next at 9am regardless what time your first one is.  Maybe I'm not understanding the question - but it's 120 minutes from your last booking NOT park opening.


 
incorrect. For the first selection it's 2 hours after park opening. No stacking before park opens. Tested by bloggers in the park.


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

JakeAZ said:


> So, if my first LL is more than 2 hours after the park open, I have to wait 120 min from park open to book another one (ie if at 7:30am I make a LL for a ride at 11:30am, I can't book another one until 11:00am, if park opens at 9am)?
> 
> But, if my first LL is within 2 hours of the park opening, I can book another one 120 min later (ie 7am first one, 9am second one)?


Yes to your first question, no to your second.  If your first LL is within 2 hours of park opening, you can make your second LL after you have swiped into your first LL.


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

JakeAZ said:


> Wait, so if I book my first one for a ride at 10:45am and the park opens at 9am, I can't book again until I tap in at 10:45am?  almost 4 hours after I booked my first one?


Correct.


----------



## DavidNYC

My takeaways from reading a hundred pages of posts today and following wait times on MDE
1.  I haven't seen much to suggest that this had any major positive effect on standby lines at all.  The standby lines seemed pretty much what would have been expected this time of year under the old system.  Not any worse - but I don't thing the predictions of them being much better look true.
2.  I've read very few experiences where it sounded like someone got to do more or stand in line less than they would have under FP+ (other than if they chose to purchase the two ILL options).
3.  I've read a lot more experiences where people did less or stood in line more than they would have under FP+
4.  You're at a significant disadvantage if (a) you're not up at 7am to make your reservations or (b) you're not at the park close to rope drop.  And this is likely to get a lot worse as today would be expected to be comparatively light crowds.

[EDIT: I'll add one positive to be even handed - I think the return times on the LL rides were very reasonable today for most of of rides outside of DHS where they have an overall inventory problem.  We'll see if that holds up going forward].

I think it's working just as they intended - but I've seen noting to change my opinion that this hurts a lot of people and helps very few compared to the old system.  Almost nothing implemented today was to improve the guest experience - just Disney's bottom line.  And to be clear - yes - I understand Disney is a business but usually their changes also sought to improve the guest experience over what had been there.  So this isn't a matter of whether you like Genie+ - it's a matter of whether this improved the experience for a most guests compared to what they could have done under FP+.  I don't believe it has based on Day 1.

[EDIT 2:  Not there today but a shout out to the cast members who do a great job and never asked for all the abuse that gets heaped on them due to corporate decisions they have no control over.  They've always been the backbone of everything at the parks and they're in my thoughts this week!!!!!]


----------



## Meglen

DFB just got evacuated off RoTR for the 3rd time today trying ot use there IAS... oof


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

Meglen said:


> DFB just got evacuated off RoTR for the 3rd time today trying ot use there IAS... oof


I sense a Mickey Ice Cream Bar in someone’s future!  It’s almost like charging extra for a ride that constantly breaks down wasn’t a great idea….


----------



## katyringo

Meglen said:


> DFB just got evacuated off RoTR for the 3rd time today trying ot use there IAS... oof


I believe this is one big downside to having a ride like rise as an individual lightening lane and is one drawback to this.


----------



## JakeAZ

katyringo said:


> I believe this is one big downside to having a ride like rise as an individual lightening lane and is one drawback to this.


HUGE problem.  That one ride has probably taken up so much time out of his day.  He paid extra to ride it AND probably paid for Genie+ too


----------



## Dis Dragon

I wonder what they're going to do at the end of the night if there is still ILL people waiting to ride.


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

Dis Dragon said:


> I wonder what they're going to do at the end of the night if there is still ILL people waiting to ride.


They really should replace ROTR with SDD.  Having ROTR as an up charge given how unreliable it is was a terrible decision.


----------



## snikki

Note to self: get ROTR early in the day.


----------



## Isabelle12345

katyringo said:


> The app recognizes your park hopper. You can book genie+ selections in other parks after 2pm. You can also make Individual lightening lane selections for other parks at 7am(onsite) or park opening (offsite).



Re: Park hopping
You can’t book your first LL (with Genie+) before 2PM?
Or can you book LLs before 2Pm but with a return time after 2PM?
For instance, if we are going to AK in the morring and hopping to HS at 2PM, taking a break for lunch in between… could I book a LL for SDD at 7:30 for 4PM (and not use any LL at AK for the first few hours)?
Thanks


----------



## margaritabnl

Can you add Genie+ to tickets already purchased but not activated yet?


----------



## katyringo

Isabelle12345 said:


> Re: Park hopping
> You can’t book your first LL (with Genie+) before 2PM?
> Or can you book LLs before 2Pm but with a return time after 2PM?
> For instance, if we are going to AK in the morring and hopping to HS at 2PM, taking a break for lunch in between… could I book a LL for SDD at 7:30 for 4PM (and not use any LL at AK for the first few hours)?
> Thanks



I believe you can book it before 2pm for a time after 2pm.


----------



## snikki

Isabelle12345 said:


> Re: Park hopping
> You can’t book your first LL (with Genie+) before 2PM?
> Or can you book LLs before 2Pm but with a return time after 2PM?
> For instance, if we are going to AK in the morring and hopping to HS at 2PM, taking a break for lunch in between… could I book a LL for SDD at 7:30 for 4PM (and not use any LL at AK for the first few hours)?
> Thanks



You should be able to do that. I asked the same thing earlier. Someone on the thread was at HS and booked something for Epcot later in the day  after using a few G+ at HS. After they booked TT at Epcot it did allow them to book at HS after 120 minutes. I assume it would work the same way at 7 am but I haven’t seen any confirmed reports.


----------



## Dis Dragon

If you are hopping it will let you book Genie+ for 2pm or later.

I haven't seen a confirmation of when you can book your second one if that is your only plans for the day - I'm guessing it would be based off the park you have a park pass for - 2 hours after opening you should be able to line another one up.


----------



## PrincessJasmine88

If using Genie plus were a subject in high school I would be looking at a D


----------



## Boardwalk III

Gretch128 said:


> I'm in the same situation of 3 groups of adult couples but we want to ride everything together.  You can load up to 6 credit cards on file and then select them when checking out like a drop down.  So, for LL I intend before 7am, check out each group with their credit card.  After that for ILL$ rides, we are going to go into a gift shop the day before and buy a gift card together.  We can all chip in to pay our part there.  You can pay for ILL$ using a gift card then.  No one gets screwed that way.  It's the only idea we've come up with so far for our scenerio.  Obviously they could be linked and log in themselves but they aren't tech savvy and prefer I 'take the wheel'.
> 
> Let me know if anyone thinks of a better method, haha.




Good plan, but this payment thing is really a pain. We have a large group going in a few weeks, many of whom are not tech savvy. Not sure how often we’ll be using G+ or ILL$ but I’ll be managing  those for most everyone.  The thought of having to load/select multiple credit cards sounds awful to me  (with an already cumbersome G+ process for those of us who are trying to manage a large family group) 

In the end, depending on what we learn over the next few weeks, I may just pay for everything myself and keep track using Notes on my phone and then charge everyone at the end.


----------



## Dis Dragon

Did it surprise anyone that there was tax added to Genie+ and the ILL purchases?

I'm amazed they didn't absorb it into the price and just passed it on to the guests.  It's already a completely new source of income...


----------



## Disneylover99

Dis Dragon said:


> Did it surprise anyone that there was tax added to Genie+ and the ILL purchases?
> 
> I'm amazed they didn't absorb it into the price and just passed it on to the guests.  It's already a completely new source of income...


Not gonna lie…..That extra 98 cents per person put my husband over the edge today. Lol.


----------



## wisblue

Dis Dragon said:


> If you are hopping it will let you book Genie+ for 2pm or later.
> 
> I haven't seen a confirmation of when you can book your second one if that is your only plans for the day - I'm guessing it would be based off the park you have a park pass for - 2 hours after opening you should be able to line another one up.



This is one I’d really like someone to confirm.

If we’re starting the day at MK, but are leaving the park at 1 PM and planning to go to Epcot around 5, after using a LL at MK I might want to make the next one at Epcot. I would expect the availability to be a lot better early in the afternoon than when we arrive at 5.


----------



## wisblue

Dis Dragon said:


> Did it surprise anyone that there was tax added to Genie+ and the ILL purchases?
> 
> I'm amazed they didn't absorb it into the price and just passed it on to the guests.  It's already a completely new source of income...



Many times there are state laws that require the sales tax to be added to the advertised price of something. I don’t know if Florida is one of those states, but that might be the reason.


----------



## snikki

wisblue said:


> This is one I’d really like someone to confirm.
> 
> If we’re starting the day at MK, but are leaving the park at 1 PM and planning to go to Epcot around 5, after using a LL at MK I might want to make the next one at Epcot. I would expect the availability to be a lot better early in the afternoon than when we arrive at 5.



Yes you can do that.


----------



## coolbrook

MrBellatrixLestrange said:


> I feel so bad for the CMs working today.


Actually, according to my CM daughter who is working in HS today, they are kind of enjoying being part of something exciting and challenging. Of course the people she is talking to are not in Guest experience roles.


----------



## MJJME

JakeAZ said:


> So, if my first LL is more than 2 hours after the park open, I have to wait 120 min from park open to book another one (ie if at 7:30am I make a LL for a ride at 11:30am, I can't book another one until 11:00am, if park opens at 9am)?
> 
> But, if my first LL is within 2 hours of the park opening, I can book another one 120 min later (ie 7am first one, 9am second one)?


No.  Cannot book axons one until 2 hours after park open OR if you redeemed your first selection (first selection could be 9-10 and as soon as you check in to that, you can book your next)


----------



## coolbrook

AnnaKristoff2013 said:


> Once you’ve tapped in.


I wonder which rides, if any, still have two tap in spots in the line.  You tap in once when you enter LL then again halfway through or at the merge point or something.  At the beginning of FP+ there were more (all?) like that, then later very few where you had that second tap.


----------



## MJJME

wisblue said:


> This is one I’d really like someone to confirm.
> 
> If we’re starting the day at MK, but are leaving the park at 1 PM and planning to go to Epcot around 5, after using a LL at MK I might want to make the next one at Epcot. I would expect the availability to be a lot better early in the afternoon than when we arrive at 5.


The only problem is, you cannot select your return time so at 1pm, soarin, tt, mission space, etc return times are likely to be in the 1-2pm range so you will have to constantly check your phone to see when the return times reach your arrival time

This is the biggest drawback of Genie+ in my opinion ( other than the cost of course)


----------



## Sjm9911

Anyone see if you could arrive early to their selection. Like in fp there was like a 10 to 15 minute grace period before and after the selected time?


----------



## jimim

snikki said:


> We are park hopping people. We like to do an AM park, pool break and PM park. One park strategy I’ve been thinking about is skipping G+ most days and just doing ILL for my PM park. I have a year until our trip so I will be reading a lot over the next year. I don’t want to be stuck in one park.





Boardwalk III said:


> Good plan, but this payment thing is really a pain. We have a large group going in a few weeks, many of whom are not tech savvy. Not sure how often we’ll be using G+ or ILL$ but I’ll be managing  those for most everyone.  The thought of having to load/select multiple credit cards sounds awful to me  (with an already cumbersome G+ process for those of us who are trying to manage a large family group)
> 
> In the end, depending on what we learn over the next few weeks, I may just pay for everything myself and keep track using Notes on my phone and then charge everyone at the end.



that’s when u use one credit card and then at dinner figure it out. I’m very thankful between family and the people a travel with we don’t think about charging.Whoever has a card handy pays. It always evens out. We are good like that.


----------



## PaladinButters

DavidNYC said:


> I think it's working just as they intended - but I've seen noting to change my opinion that this hurts a lot of people and helps very few compared to the old system.



Ah - but you see we can’t compare this to the old system of FP+ as that hasn’t been an option for some time now - my last trip was all standby as the only option. Adding the ability to skip a line (even if I have to pay) improves my guest experience significantly over what it was my last trip. 
To put it colorfully - we might not particularly like what’s for dinner, but it’s better than going hungry by a mile.


----------



## katyringo

A


Sjm9911 said:


> Anyone see if you could arrive early to their selection. Like in fp there was like a 10 to 15 minute grace period before and after the selected time?



5 minutes is confirmed.


----------



## Party.Of.4-NY>>>FL

Sjm9911 said:


> Anyone see if you could arrive early to their selection. Like in fp there was like a 10 to 15 minute grace period before and after the selected time?


FP+ used to allow 5 minutes early and 15 minutes late.


----------



## bethbuchall

CindysMice said:


> Wait times aren’t loading for me in the map. I think a few of us are experiencing this glitch.


I have that happen all the time (even before this update). If you close it the app and re-open it, sometimes that helps. Though there are times that I’ve had to do it more than once. Also, sometimes there is a bit of a lag and if you wait, the times eventually populate.


----------



## rmclain73

It sounds like the best way to stack lightning lanes for later in the day is to do it to a park you would want to hop to. From what I understand they will only give you ride times for a ride after 2 o’clock if it is not the park you have a reservation for that day.  Touring plans was talking about this very thing on their podcast today. They made it sound that as early as 7 AM you could book your first lightning Lane for a park that you would hop to after 2 o’clock.  You can then just keep stacking them. One at 11 and one at 1.  Genie will not give you options for attractions before 2pm.

you can enter the park you have a reservation for early and then just do standby only. After lunch hop over to the park that you have lightning lanes stacked.


----------



## DisneyKidds

Party.Of.4-NY>>>FL said:


> FP+ used to allow 5 minutes early and 15 minutes late.


Reality was they used to let you (or us at least, without exception) use FP+ any time after the return window opened….not just 15 minutes late.  Somehow I doubt that’s still the case.


----------



## DisneyFive

rmclain73 said:


> It sounds like the best way to stack lightning lanes for later in the day is to do it to a park you would want to hop to. From what I understand they will only give you ride times for a ride after 2 o’clock if it is not the park you have a reservation for that day.  Touring plans was talking about this very thing on their podcast today. They made it sound that as early as 7 AM you could book your first lightning Lane for a park that you would hop to after 2 o’clock.  You can then just keep stacking them. One at 11 and one at 1.  Genie will not give you options for attractions before 2pm.
> 
> you can enter the park you have a reservation for early and then just do standby only. After lunch hop over to the park that you have lightning lanes stacked.


That’s really good info!  Takes G+ strategy to another level.  You know when I can see this also working very well? Your arrival day.   Even with some of the earliest flights getting into Florida, we still have not been able to get into the parks until 1 to 2 PM after checking into our resort.  This is perfect for hopping.

You could stack G+ all the way until you arrive. You would then need to tap into your reserved park, but then immediately hop over to the park that you have all the G+ booked for.  You would actually reserve a park that you do not intend to go to that day, and immediately hop to the park with the G+ attractions.



DisneyKidds said:


> Reality was they used to let you (or us at least, without exception) use FP+ any time after the return window opened….not just 15 minutes late.  Somehow I doubt that’s still the case.


. 

Not in our experience.  Anything after 15 minutes required you to whine and complain which we weren’t willing to do.

Dan


----------



## Disturbia

wisblue said:


> Is anyone else having problems with park reservations disappearing from the app?
> 
> I was playing around with the free Genie part of the app to select favorite attractions for the 3 days of our  trip in November for which everyone in our party of 4 has park reservations. All of the reservations show when I look at My Plans on the website.
> 
> On the app when I tried to select members of my party I got a message that nobody had a valid park reservation on those days.
> 
> Hopefully this is one of those things that will sort itself out as they do refreshes of the app and coordinate it with the reservation system.


Did you change the date on the top?  The park that shows at the top is your park pass I believe


----------



## CarolynFH

DisneyFive said:


> Not in our experience. Anything after 15 minutes required you to whine and complain which we weren’t willing to do.


For a number of years they did allow FP return even hours after the end of the window. They clamped down on that quite a while back - I can’t remember when, but I think it might have been around the time MDE, MBs and FP+ came along. Hopefully some other old timer here on the DISboards will remember the timeframe.


----------



## TDSAXX

ENJDisneyFan said:


> This is a pet peeve of mine too.  It’s not a regional variation, it’s a misspelling!
> 
> 
> Lightening = make or become lighter in weight


Well Chapek will be Lightening all of our wallets.


----------



## wisblue

Disturbia said:


> Did you change the date on the top?  The park that shows at the top is your park pass I believe



Yes, I did. In some places it shows that I have a park reservation for a party of 1, which I think is because I have an AP and the others have regular multi day tickets. But, without changing the date if I try to choose people I’m touring with it asks me to remove everyone because of not having valid admission.

Because the trip is still 3 weeks away I’m just chalking it up to opening day jitters for the new app since the website has all of the plans correct.


----------



## DisneyKidds

DisneyFive said:


> Not in our experience.  Anything after 15 minutes required you to whine and complain which we weren’t willing to do.
> 
> Dan


As was always said…your results may vary….but especially if you were doing it wrong! 

jk

We never had to whine and complain, we never slowed down long enough for that to happen.  We just tapped through late, it always worked, and kept walking.  Not that we showed up late all that regularly.


----------



## Monk6552

A question I don't believe I've seen answered yet - if I am staying onsite, BUT not arriving until later in the day (i.e. flying in that day) - will I be able to choose the return slot for the $ILL later in the day - or is my only choice first available/ to keep refreshing and seeing what is available and buy it once it gives me an option later in the day?


----------



## DisneyFive

CarolynFH said:


> For a number of years they did allow FP return even hours after the end of the window. They clamped down on that quite a while back - I can’t remember when, but I think it might have been around the time MDE, MBs and FP+ came along. Hopefully some other old timer here on the DISboards will remember the timeframe.


Maybe I am sounding old, but we have been going long enough to go through that transition. Yes, back in the day of paper fast passes they would never enforce the return window. It was a well-known “secret“.  We would stack them and use a number of them later in the day. It was once magic bands came around that they stopped letting you do that because it was obvious that you were beyond the time window when the Mickey head would not light up properly if you were beyond the grace period.  I think that was around 2014-2015 timeframe?

Dan


----------



## 5DisneyNuts

luv2cheer92 said:


> I sure took a ton of heat from posting my positive view of it when it was announced.





katyringo said:


> I was with you from the start!


Those that have been following along are well aware of those that have been positive over the new changes. 

Many that have been following along, including me, have been puzzled over those who are happy with, by most accounts, a lesser experience costing $100-$1000 more than it did a short time ago. 

There are many many loyal Disney loving fans that are not happy with the money grab and find those saying we should be happy with the money grab or are constant complainers reluctant to change, distasteful.

Since this is the new world we are dealing with,  It would be nice if this could be a thread to get information without the slant so we can make our own choices.

Thanks to those on the front lines for your information! Very helpful and appreciate your sharing.


----------



## wisblue

MJJME said:


> The only problem is, you cannot select your return time so at 1pm, soarin, tt, mission space, etc return times are likely to be in the 1-2pm range so you will have to constantly check your phone to see when the return times reach your arrival time
> 
> This is the biggest drawback of Genie+ in my opinion ( other than the cost of course)



That might be true today with the low crowds, but as the crowds get bigger and the wait rimes grow, the LL return times will get pushed farther out too.

If nothing else, we can grab a LL as we head to the park and be ready to use it when we arrive.

We should be so lucky to have all wait times for the major attractions be 20 minutes or less at 5 PM and for the rest of the evening.


----------



## marikujawa

margaritabnl said:


> Can you add Genie+ to tickets already purchased but not activated yet?


Yes. I did it.


----------



## Sjm9911

5DisneyNuts said:


> Those that have been following along are well aware of those that have been positive over the new changes.
> 
> Many that have been following along, including me, have been puzzled over those who are happy with, by most accounts, a lesser experience costing $100-$1000 more than it did a short time ago.
> 
> There are many many loyal Disney loving fans that are not happy with the money grab and find those saying we should be happy with the money grab or are constant complainers reluctant to change, distasteful.
> 
> Since this is the new world we are dealing with,  It would be nice if this could be a thread to get information without the slant so we can make our own choices.
> 
> Thanks to those on the front lines for your information! Very helpful and appreciate your sharing.


300 more for our trip in less the 2 weeks. Well maybe 298. I was surprised at the tax also. I will say i am fortunate enough to have that much to spend, but I'm not happy about it. I would have cut some of the stuff for the parks, but i really didn't want to do it day by day. It was easier to get ot for the whole trip then pick and choose. I think disney knows that also.


----------



## MJJME

Sjm9911 said:


> 300 more for our trip in less the 2 weeks. Well maybe 298. I was surprised at the tax also. I will say i am fortunate enough to have that much to spend, but I'm not happy about it. I would have cut some of the stuff for the parks, but i really didn't want to do it day by day. It was easier to get ot for the whole trip then pick and choose. I think disney knows that also.


I bet you won’t do that again after this trip.   Genie+ is a waste of money.   IAS I think has real value, but not genie+


----------



## moorish

rmclain73 said:


> It sounds like the best way to stack lightning lanes for later in the day is to do it to a park you would want to hop to. From what I understand they will only give you ride times for a ride after 2 o’clock if it is not the park you have a reservation for that day.  Touring plans was talking about this very thing on their podcast today. They made it sound that as early as 7 AM you could book your first lightning Lane for a park that you would hop to after 2 o’clock.  You can then just keep stacking them. One at 11 and one at 1.  Genie will not give you options for attractions before 2pm.
> 
> you can enter the park you have a reservation for early and then just do standby only. After lunch hop over to the park that you have lightning lanes stacked.


This is very interesting.


----------



## Sjm9911

MJJME said:


> I bet you won’t do that again after this trip.   Genie+ is a waste of money.   IAS I think has real value, but not genie+


Lol, its my last trip for a bit. Pricing has gone up a ton since 2019. Plus its a haul for us, we bring a camper. And live in nj.


----------



## Leight19

Sjm9911 said:


> 300 more for our trip in less the 2 weeks. Well maybe 298. I was surprised at the tax also. I will say i am fortunate enough to have that much to spend, but I'm not happy about it. I would have cut some of the stuff for the parks, but i really didn't want to do it day by day. It was easier to get ot for the whole trip then pick and choose. I think disney knows that also.


I’m planning 3 trips from may 2022 to Jan 2023 (would start sooner but just had child so waiting for her to be at least 6 months).
We are dvc and this is us clearing out backlog of points from covid.

If I didn’t have dvc and wasn’t a captive audience I absolutely would cancel all 3 trips in response to genie plus and other cheapening of product. As it is, I’m currently trying to convince wife to convert at least some of these to resort only or universal but with money tied up already and our kids not yet in universal demographic (1 month, 2 and 4) it would hurt us more then Disney.

I absolutely will not buy genie plus no matter how good it is because I refuse to support this nickel and diming. We were also planning to add on more points to gfv but again no way we give them any money with current direction of company.


----------



## Disturbia

wisblue said:


> Yes, I did. In some places it shows that I have a park reservation for a party of 1, which I think is because I have an AP and the others have regular multi day tickets. But, without changing the date if I try to choose people I’m touring with it asks me to remove everyone because of not having valid admission.
> 
> Because the trip is still 3 weeks away I’m just chalking it up to opening day jitters for the new app since the website has all of the plans correct.


I don’t remember if it was on a blog, but someone said everyone has to have the same type of ticket; I thought back to our kids and one is an infant but everyone who will ride has the same 7 day base ticket


----------



## DisneyFive

Sjm9911 said:


> Lol, its my last trip for a bit. Pricing has gone up a ton since 2019.



Tell me about it. I was pricing out a summer trip for 2022. I looked back at 2018 pricing and noticed that ticket prices (10 day hoppers) have gone up 35% since 2018, and that does not include the cost of G+ on top of that yet!!

*ETA... fixed the % increase*. It wasn't 60% but rather 35% from 2018 to 2022. Was doing the math too quickly before. Still, that's an almost 8% year over year increase. WAAAAAY outpacing inflation. Add G+ on top of that, and !!!!!   Adding G+ to all 10 days really does bring the total price up 63% from 2018.  (I'm not even including individual paid attractions).  That's a crazy increase IMO.

Dan


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

Sjm9911 said:


> Anyone see if you could arrive early to their selection. Like in fp there was like a 10 to 15 minute grace period before and after the selected time?


It was confirmed that there was at least a 5 minute early arrival window same as FP+.  No word on the grace period afterwards.


----------



## Airb330

Leight19 said:


> I absolutely will not buy genie plus no matter how good it is because I refuse to support this nickel and diming. *We were also planning to add on more points to gfv but again no way we give them any money with current direction of company.*


I probably won’t buy Genie+ either. I followed the tip board today in the app (it’s cool) and don’t see the value. No rerides, limited headliners. _Maybe_ I’d pay for FOP or ROTR if I was with someone who never rode it before.

We were so into the idea of buying VGF2. Then this G+ nonsense happened and we aren’t fans of the qn/an resort rooms either. Also not feeling the direction of the company, at least the parks division. If anything we may offload some DVC in a few years.


----------



## EPCOT-O.G.

Airb330 said:


> I probably won’t buy Genie+ either. I followed the tip board today in the app (it’s cool) and don’t see the value. No rerides, limited headliners. _Maybe_ I’d pay for FOP or ROTR if I was with someone who never rode it before.
> 
> We were so into the idea of buying VGF2. Then this G+ nonsense happened and we aren’t fans of the qn/an resort rooms either. Also not feeling the direction of the company, at least the parks division. If anything we may offload some DVC in a few years.


It’s really astonishing how bad this has been bungled, especially at a time with comparatively low attendance. Imagine it during the holidays or spring break! Also, anyone with any passing familiarity with Disney’s tech infrastructure kind of saw this happening.

Will this initiative eventually be considered “Chapek’s Folly”?


----------



## wisblue

Disturbia said:


> I don’t remember if it was on a blog, but someone said everyone has to have the same type of ticket; I thought back to our kids and one is an infant but everyone who will ride has the same 7 day base ticket



When I made park reservations I had to make mine separately because “AP with resort reservation” comes from a different pot than daily tickets with resort reservation.

In the “my plans“ section on the website the park passes show as a party of one and a party of 3 even though we are all on the same resort reservation (DVC).

If the only impact of this is that we have to buy our Genie+ every day in two separate transactions it will be annoying but not a big deal.

But, if we have to be treated as separate parties for everything, like making G+LL and IALL selections, that will be really annoying.

I‘d be interested to hear how this has worked for anyone else with one of these “mixed” parties.

ETA: As I describe in a later post in this thread I was told by a CM in a chat exchange that once we all purchase Genie+ for a day we will be treated as one group for making LL selections. I will find out in 3 weeks if she was right.


----------



## elgerber

I have to say, it was great walking through the old fast pass lines again today. We pretty much walked right on Remy


----------



## Sjm9911

Leight19 said:


> I’m planning 3 trips from may 2022 to Jan 2023 (would start sooner but just had child so waiting for her to be at least 6 months).
> We are dvc and this is us clearing out backlog of points from covid.
> 
> If I didn’t have dvc and wasn’t a captive audience I absolutely would cancel all 3 trips in response to genie plus and other cheapening of product. As it is, I’m currently trying to convince wife to convert at least some of these to resort only or universal but with money tied up already and our kids not yet in universal demographic (1 month, 2 and 4) it would hurt us more then Disney.
> 
> I absolutely will not buy genie plus no matter how good it is because I refuse to support this nickel and diming. We were also planning to add on more points to gfv but again no way we give them any money with current direction of company.


I get it, but for me my daughter is a bit older, while i dont want to buy it, i looked at it as insurance on the money allready spent. So 45 bucks for 3 people to justify the 340 dollers in tickets per day , in order ro get more stuff in , is almost a must. I did cut out all my dinner reservations.  Like i said i have a camper, and it comes with a kitchen. Otherwise i wouldn't be able to afford as lond of a stay as i do. And luches will mostly be baged, lol.


----------



## MJJME

moorish said:


> This is very interesting.


Only problem is, you didn’t need genie+ today in any park with the exception of HS because it wasn’t that busy.  Waste of money in my opinion.  

and on busy days, tou will not be able to get an afternoon genie+ b they will sell out.

genie + is a joke if you ask me.

ias for rotr and fop are worth it, but not genie +


----------



## cjlong88

rmclain73 said:


> It sounds like the best way to stack lightning lanes for later in the day is to do it to a park you would want to hop to. From what I understand they will only give you ride times for a ride after 2 o’clock if it is not the park you have a reservation for that day.  Touring plans was talking about this very thing on their podcast today. They made it sound that as early as 7 AM you could book your first lightning Lane for a park that you would hop to after 2 o’clock.  You can then just keep stacking them. One at 11 and one at 1.  Genie will not give you options for attractions before 2pm.
> 
> you can enter the park you have a reservation for early and then just do standby only. After lunch hop over to the park that you have lightning lanes stacked.


This is exactly what we plan on doing when we visit EPCOT on our first day back. Enjoy F&W and get in a standby line or two with low waits in the morning while and start stacking rides for HS. Take a break at the hotel, then head to the HS in the afternoon. If we purchase both MMRR and RotR we can conceivably have 5 LL's ready to go, which would be awesome. But who knows what will be the most effective way to maximize this until we get more information from those using it throughout the next few weeks.


----------



## dawnball

DisneyFive said:


> You would then need to tap into your reserved park, but then immediately hop over to the park that you have all the G+ booked for.  You would actually reserve a park that you do not intend to go to that day, and immediately hop to the park with the G+ attractions.


I wonder if you could just swap your park reservation to the intended park without losing your g+ reservations, assuming availability?


----------



## lostprincess_danie

lostprincess_danie said:


> Note, I do not have tickets for today but am playing around with the app. (1) On the tip board, is there any way to sort by next available LL time or is it only alphabetical attraction name order?
> (2) Or sort by standby time in the tip board.
> I know this option can still be done by viewing the map, then selecting view list, but not very convenient to back out of genie if I just want to see the lower waits.


My question got lost in the shuffle earlier today. Can somebody help me out?


----------



## Disturbia

wisblue said:


> If the only impact of this is that we have to buy our Genie+ every day in two separate transactions it will be annoying but not a big deal.
> 
> But, if we have to be treated as separate parties for everything, like making G+LL and IALL selections, that will be really annoying.
> 
> I‘d be interested to hear how this has worked for anyone else with one of these “mixed” parties.


Can you see if post 4798 is relevant; page 240 (there may be some relevant info on page 238 as well).


----------



## elgerber

Monk6552 said:


> A question I don't believe I've seen answered yet - if I am staying onsite, BUT not arriving until later in the day (i.e. flying in that day) - will I be able to choose the return slot for the $ILL later in the day - or is my only choice first available/ to keep refreshing and seeing what is available and buy it once it gives me an option later in the day?


Yes for paid individual rides you select your time.


----------



## Disturbia

lostprincess_danie said:


> My question got lost in the shuffle earlier today. Can somebody help me out?


I would just look at Touring plans wait times


----------



## Dis Dragon

lostprincess_danie said:


> My question got lost in the shuffle earlier today. Can somebody help me out?


No, this is the only way to view it at this time.  It's been commented that it's very clunky in it's current form and I would agree.


----------



## pixiedust2u

I’ve read the boards, and  the blogs etc. and G+ and just the “free” or should I say included genie….. makes me sad. It seems like SO much time on your phone. And to me that’s just very, unmagical. We were fortunate enough to do Disney in June 2021… and I’m so grateful because I don’t think we’ll ever have an experience like that again.
I don’t mind being on my phone a bit like in the FP + days, but this seems excessive, and takes away from being in the moment with my kids.


----------



## katyringo

Well now it's time to say goodbye to all the genie fun for the night. Had fun following along for the day.. 

We still have some questions to answer. Tomorrow is another Genie+ day.. it's a great big beautiful tomorrow!

for me myself and I and my family.. already added genie to 4 day tickets and LL rides in the budget.

then again we paid a heck of a lot more than that for express passes at universal.. and our local amusement park this summer..


----------



## wisblue

Disturbia said:


> Can you see if post 4798 is relevant; page 240 (there may be some relevant info on page 238 as well).



That seems like a different issue because it involves different rooms and trying to split payments among different people.

Ours is different because the party is my wife and me and two of our adult daughters  in one room (although one of them will actually be staying at her apartment and is just on the room reservation so she can take advantage of Early Entry with us). All of the payments will go through the same credit card.

I‘m not too concerned about this because we are staying at SSR and will be arriving in the afternoon before our first park day. So, we‘ll probably just walk over to Disney Springs and I’ll go to Guest Services there to activate my AP and make sure we are ready to go the next morning.

But, I would still be interested to hear if someone else has to deal with a similar situation when they try to purchase G+.


----------



## lorileahb

elgerber said:


> Yes for paid individual rides you select your time.



How do you select the time?  I may have misunderstood, but I thought times popped up and you only had the choice for that time - is there a way to find a specific time for the ILL (paid individual rides)?


----------



## katyringo

lorileahb said:


> How do you select the time?  I may have misunderstood, but I thought times popped up and you only had the choice for that time - is there a way to find a specific time for the ILL (paid individual rides)?



for genie plus you have to take the next available time. For the individual lightning Lanes it will show a time but you click on it and then pick from available times.


----------



## DisneyKidds

It’s been interesting following this thread today.  Unfortunately it is just deepening my disappointment in what Disney has become.

No doubt (in my mind at least) Disney has been going in a negative direction for some time now, but this new pay for play, stop trying to beat them and join them (OR is Disney ACTUALLY going to BEAT the other guys at separating you from your money?), nickel and dime commoditization of the parks has taken Disney over the edge.

Is there really any arguing that G+ is less flexible than any previous iteration of FP, and that G+ and ILL$ together cost quite a bit more $ to get what used to be included in the price of your already pricey admission ticket?

I didn’t think so.

However, it’s not the $$$ that disappoints me the most. I mean, people will be clamoring for the whole Genie/LL thing. With so much invested in an expensive trip already what’s a few more five hundy or a thousand bucks across the fam? We are all pot committed, and Disney knows it. Like many we could afford it….and I’ll probably disappoint myself and use it all sparingly despite despising the direction….even though my gut says to not pay out of protest.

No, more so than the $$ it’s the lack of flexibility, the lack of any real sense of community and family that Disney has been showing, and seems to be reinforcing with Genie’s help, that disappoints me most.  It wasn’t all that long ago that Disney touted Grand Gatherings and the coming together of generations of families in a Magical place. Now the only magic going on is **POOF** Genie disappearing money from your wallet.

Seriously, one can only make LL reservations for 12 people?  We’ve got a trip of 19 people coming up next year.  Same 19 people we went with three or four years ago.  Then, with FP+, while we had multiple people making FP reservations, at least we could coordinate and have everyone get FP+ reservations around the same time.  We succeeded in getting FP rides together, the whole group of 19.  There’s not a snowballs chance in hades that happens with G+ next year, as who know what return times might be offered when we have multiple people, at different times, try to make LL reservations, assuming that every family in our group of 19 will even go for adding upwards of $40 a day pp to the cost of the vacation.

People have been opining for a while that Disney no longer cares about loyal, long term guests.  They obviously don’t care about large groups, either.  This whole thing just reinforces, for me at least, that all Disney really cares about any more is separating as much money from a family as quickly as possible, then moving on to the next, and the next.  Disney has always been expensive, but it never felt like they were fleecing you.  It’s a shame that has changed as much as it has.


----------



## twodogs

DavidNYC said:


> I don't like for me personally it but I at least understand the rationale behind it.  It may not be advantageous for some - but it's far from "stupid".  Allowing for repeated use will cause the return times to get exhausted much faster.  Their goal is to allow as many different people to be able to use LL on each attraction.   Taking your "you paid for it" argument - there are lots of other people who paid for it as well and the system won't work if there are too many rides that have all return times exhausted too early.  For some rides like SDD it's going to happen anyway - but it would happen with a lot more rides if they offered rerides wtih LL.  They need to make sure people who are there later in the day get priority to use LL over someone who's already ridden it.


But this is how MP at DLR operated successfully.   FPs for rides were not running out at super early times due to allowing re-rides.  Very popular rides like RSR ran out mid afternoon, but were almost always available later in the day with refresh, since you could cancel your FPs if you weren’t going to use them.


----------



## MJJME

twodogs said:


> But this is how MP at DLR operated successfully.   FPs for rides were not running out at super early times due to allowing re-rides.  Very popular rides like RSR ran out mid afternoon, but were almost always available later in the day with refresh, since you could cancel your FPs if you weren’t going to use them.


AK and Epcot cannot come close to DLR capacity combined.  Sorry makes no sense even though I wish it was possible


----------



## MomEadon

Thank you for asking and the person who answered below answered with just what I was wondering myself!
The more you know!



lorileahb said:


> How do you select the time?  I may have misunderstood, but I thought times popped up and you only had the choice for that time - is there a way to find a specific time for the ILL (paid individual rides)?


----------



## gharter

katyringo said:


> Summary of what I learned today!
> 
> 
> *Buying genie +*
> 
> You can purchase genie+ in two ways. You can buy it the day off after midnight or you can add it to your vacation package ticket. If you add it to your package you have to commit to it for every day you have a ticket.
> 
> *120 minute rule*
> 
> The 120 minute rule comes into play 2 different ways. The first way is if you book a genie+ at 7am for more than 2 hours after park opening you can make another selection 2 hours after the park opens.
> 
> The second way is once the park is open. Once the park has been open and you make a selection that is more than 2 hours away you can make another one in 2 hours.
> 
> *7am rule for off site*
> 
> If you are staying off site you can make Genie+ reservations at 7am BUT YOU CANNOT MAKE INDIVIDUAL LIGHTNING LANE SELECTIONS UNTIL PARK
> OPENING. I believe this is park opening for the park you have a reservation.
> 
> *7am rule for on site*
> 
> If you are staying on site you can make BOTH an individual lightning lane selection and genie+ selection at 7am.
> 
> *Refreshing*
> 
> You can refresh the my tips page to try and get earlier or different times offered to you. However you CANNOT cancel or modify an individual lightning lane pass.
> 
> You can cancel a genie+ pass and book another one.  You cannot modify an existing one.
> 
> *Park hopping*
> 
> The app recognizes your park hopper. You can book genie+ selections in other parks after 2pm. You can also make Individual lightning lane selections for other parks at 7am(onsite) or park opening (offsite).
> 
> *Choosing a time*
> 
> For genie+ you have to pick the time the app gives you.
> 
> For individual lightning lane the app will show a time BUT you can click on it and then will be able to choose from all available times.
> 
> You can buy both lightning lane selections at the same time.
> 
> *Stacking*
> 
> Stacking is confirmed possible and you can hold multiple Genie+ selections at a time. You can also hold virtual que, individual lightening lane and genie+ selections all at the same time.
> 
> *Virtual que *
> 
> Right now Remy is the only ride with the virtual que and the drop is at 7 and 1pm.  You can use this along with individual lightning  lane and genie+.  You can use virtual que and individual lightning lane for the same ride.
> 
> *Patterns from day 1*
> 
> 
> Hollywood studios saw rides run out of passes. Rise ran out of individual lightning lanes by 945 and slinky dog and smugglers ran out of genie+ early afternoon.
> 
> Magic kingdom saw jungle cruise run out of genie+.  Individual lightning lane passes for SDMT and space have not run out. Most return times are right away/ next hour at this moment.
> 
> Epcot nothing had run out and return times are right away/next hour.
> 
> AK nothing had run out and return times are right away/next hour.
> 
> 
> *What happens if the ride is down*
> 
> It seems when a ride is down a ride anytime pass is issued.


similar experience to what we found.  Good to know about stacking as it didn't work for us.


----------



## Thumper99

cindyfan said:


> The point is.... it is still available!  which means everyone already has the opportunity to get it also.  If others choose to ride 5 different attractions.. that is their choice.  But there are people/families that choose to do 2 rides multiple times.  Why not?
> Why should someone that has been there since opening be forced to wait until a late arriving person gets a chance to use it??
> There is no reason to limit it to once.... IMHO!!


Maybe it’s still there BECAUSE they aren’t allowing  ReRides.


----------



## M SH

cjlong88 said:


> This is exactly what we plan on doing when we visit EPCOT on our first day back. Enjoy F&W and get in a standby line or two with low waits in the morning while and start stacking rides for HS. Take a break at the hotel, then head to the HS in the afternoon. If we purchase both MMRR and RotR we can conceivably have 5 LL's ready to go, which would be awesome. But who knows what will be the most effective way to maximize this until we get more information from those using it throughout the next few weeks.


Sorry I don’t really mean to pick on you. I’m reading this post and just makes me think on where we were with FP+ where one could do all of this for no extra charge. But now people are planning on spending on g+ and ias per day and calling it awesome. SMH


----------



## fly girl

MJJME said:


> I bet you won’t do that again after this trip.   Genie+ is a waste of money.   IAS I think has real value, but not genie+



Obviously, you are entitled to your opinion, but to say those blanket statements to another poster without knowing how they tour doesn't seem right.  

Personally, for my family, ILL does not have value for over half of the rides. SM, FEA, RAT, MMRR, and EE. We enjoy those rides, but I don't like SM at WDW enough to pay $21 for my family of 3. Same with FEA and MMRR. RAT we rode in DLP, it is a early version of MMRR and we weren't impressed enough to pay extra for it here. EE we will utilize single rider. With all that said, I know one thing is 100% certain -- that is just my personal take and all ILL's could hold tremendous value to a different person or family. 

Same goes with G+. If I can wait in 5 minute LL lines versus 15-20 minute standby lines over the course of a day at one or two parks I feel it is absolutely worth it. YMMV, and that is totally fine. G+ clearly sounds like it is not for you, but it could be for other people. So just like I won't get ILL's for all those rides mentioned, you won't get G+. What works for both of us is different. And that's ok. 

Everyone has their own way of touring the parks. Some see value in none, one, or both G+ and ILL. I think everyone has to figure it out for themselves.


----------



## MJJME

Very disappointing

So I can save an hour or 2 of waiting in line but  I have get up 2 hours earlier than I would at 7am, not be able to go when I want in the afternoon because I cannot pick my return time, be on my phone all day and pay $75 for my family of 5? I’ll give up the time I save standing in line, the money and aggravation and sleep in until 9am and be no worse off.


----------



## MJJME

fly girl said:


> Obviously, you are entitled to your opinion, but to say those blanket statements to another poster without knowing how they tour doesn't seem right.
> 
> Personally, for my family, ILL does not have value for over half of the rides. SM, FEA, RAT, MMRR, and EE. We enjoy those rides, but I don't like SM at WDW enough to pay $21 for my family of 3. Same with FEA and MMRR. RAT we rode in DLP, it is a early version of MMRR and we weren't impressed enough to pay extra for it here. EE we will utilize single rider. With all that said, I know one thing is 100% certain -- that is just my personal take and all ILL's could hold tremendous value to a different person or family.
> 
> Same goes with G+. If I can wait in 5 minute LL lines versus 15-20 minute standby lines over the course of a day at one or two parks I feel it is absolutely worth it. YMMV, and that is totally fine. G+ clearly sounds like it is not for you, but it could be for other people. So just like I won't get ILL's for all those rides mentioned, you won't get G+. What works for both of us is different. And that's ok.
> 
> Everyone has their own way of touring the parks. Some see value in none, one, or both G+ and ILL. I think everyone has to figure it out for themselves.


Sure you save an hour in line about you lose 2 hours of sleep.  Not a great trade off.


----------



## fly girl

MJJME said:


> Sure you save an hour in line about you lose 2 hours of sleep.  Not a great trade off.



That is your opinion! I feel it is. I am an early riser. 

I don't get why you fail to see others may find value in G+?


----------



## MJJME

fly girl said:


> That is your opinion! I feel it is. I am an early riser.
> 
> I don't get why you fail to see others may find value in G+?


Because there is none?

and if you’re up that early, you don’t need to be spending the extra money to skip the lines when they are at the lowest of the day


----------



## fly girl

MJJME said:


> Because there is none?



Again, your opinion. I am beating a dead horse here. We're done.

And btw, how I chose to spend MY money is up to me. And yes, I would like it so I can enjoy re-rides when lines are low.

Have a good night.


----------



## lorileahb

Thanks to the summary post on previous page, we are all set with our plan - MK is Boo Bash so no stress, skipping Hollywood Studios, Epcot try for virtual queues both times (monitoring ILL - purchase if need to) - Frozen is no big deal for us, Test Track individual and regular standby for all else (waits looked pretty low) and Animal Kingdom purchase ILL for FOP, ride Navi first and waits looked pretty low if you hit at the right times for all else.  

So appreciative of everyone who is providing feedback today and tomorrow on the very first days - you all are awesome!!!


----------



## PepperjackDragon

Well just a heads up for anyone looking at FOP ILL$...this morning the app said 145 minutes. Might have been true. Then mid day it dropped to 45 minutes. We hopped on and walked all the way up into the room with the avatar floating in the tank. I timed it from the time we finally got to a line (just walking straight through and then finally had to stop) until we got to the fast pass merge point....8 minutes. So the poor folks that were meeting us at the LL merge had paid 15pp and saved 8 minutes (plus a bit of walking time since they didn't have to walk through all the winding sections, though many of those were direct cut across with large sections of the walk way closed) I suppose some folks might make enough that $15/8min is worth it, but man, that 45 minutes estimate was some real bad estimating.


----------



## Gretch128

Boardwalk III said:


> Good plan, but this payment thing is really a pain. We have a large group going in a few weeks, many of whom are not tech savvy. Not sure how often we’ll be using G+ or ILL$ but I’ll be managing  those for most everyone.  The thought of having to load/select multiple credit cards sounds awful to me  (with an already cumbersome G+ process for those of us who are trying to manage a large family group)
> 
> In the end, depending on what we learn over the next few weeks, I may just pay for everything myself and keep track using Notes on my phone and then charge everyone at the end.



I feel you…the whole process is so complicated and annoying. When you go into MDE > Three Lines at Bottom > My Profile > Payment Methods … Then you can load your credit cards (up to 6) from there. When checking out for genie+, you can use a drop down basically to select from these cards then….so check out for each adult group separately before 7am so at 7am, you can all book Genie+ rides together. Annoying, yes but it’ll work. Can’t save gift cards to MDE beforehand, but in ILL$ and genie+ checkout, you can pay for gift card. Since ILL$ risks not getting the same time for everyone if checked out separately, going to use gift card that we all chipped in on.  my group is going in less than 2 weeks so trying to panic figure something out.

sooo yeah, you’re right that the easiet way is to pay for it all and charge a bill at the end to each group


----------



## mab2012

Jonfw2 said:


> I sincerely think the worst part about Genie+ for some people is that so far it appears to be working fine.



People are doing their best to make it work.  I haven't seen a lot of people raving about it.

There was another comment earlier today, predicting that this would be "wildly popular".  I had the same thought then: I think it will be heavily used.  It would be mistake to assume that means it is "popular".  For my family, I don't think it will be a total disaster.  We'll probably make use of it.  But based on what I know so far, it seems like it will be worse than FP+ _for us_ in basically every way.

Of course some will legitimately like it better.  Even enough to justify the cost.  But many are just trying to turn lemons into lemonade.


----------



## DavidNYC

twodogs said:


> But this is how MP at DLR operated successfully.   FPs for rides were not running out at super early times due to allowing re-rides.  Very popular rides like RSR ran out mid afternoon, but were almost always available later in the day with refresh, since you could cancel your FPs if you weren’t going to use them.


You can't compare the parks - the crowd dynamic is completely different.


----------



## DavidNYC

PaladinButters said:


> Ah - but you see we can’t compare this to the old system of FP+ as that hasn’t been an option for some time now - my last trip was all standby as the only option. Adding the ability to skip a line (even if I have to pay) improves my guest experience significantly over what it was my last trip.
> To put it colorfully - we might not particularly like what’s for dinner, but it’s better than going hungry by a mile.


Well - then they got you and they were hoping some people would have short memories.  But I think the vast majority of here are perfectly capable of comparing this to the old system.  If a fine steakhouse switched to serving you dog food and the charged you extra to get a hamburger instead - I doubt many people would be focusing on how the hamburger made the steakhouse experience better . . . . If a baseball player hit for a .300 average for years and then dropped to .150 and then jumped up to .200 - you're not talking about the improvement.  You're still talking about how much worse he is than at his peak.  Do we need any more analogies???   People have memories of what the park was able to be.  Just because they made it really bad for a while doesn't mean we should celebrate when it's made slightly less bad . . .


----------



## DavidNYC

fly girl said:


> I don't get why you fail to see others may find value in G+?



It's not that we cannot see that others may find value in G+.  It's that the vast majority of what people are posting about the value of Genie+ was easily obtained under the old FP+ system (other than the ability to pay for certain rides).   On the flip side however, there was a great amount of value under FP+ that is now no longer obtainable under Genie+ at all.    That's the difference.  Not that Genie+ has no value - it's that is has far less value to a huge group of people while offering very minimal new benefit to a smaller number of people.  After today - the main argument about the stress of having to pick rides 30 days out has gone out the window as we saw that people had to do the same if not more planning today without the ability to choose their own times and the rides they couldn't get in advance then are basically the ones you have to pay for now anyway so that is out the window as well.

So in sum . . . it offers value over a standby only system.  It offers far less value than FP+.


----------



## Jrb1979

IMO from reading the comments, I think the issue people have with Genie+ is not necessarily the cost but that they took away the spreadsheet planning that most loved. I would bet even if Genie+ was free most would hate it.


 Personally I love the it. I hated all the planning and booking involved. My family is a go with the flow type.


----------



## fly girl

DavidNYC said:


> It's not that we cannot see that others may find value in G+.  It's that the vast majority of what people are posting about the value of Genie+ was easily obtained under the old FP+ system (other than the ability to pay for certain rides).   On the flip side however, there was a great amount of value under FP+ that is now no longer obtainable under Genie+ at all.    That's the difference.  Not that Genie+ has no value - it's that is has far less value to a huge group of people while offering very minimal new benefit to a smaller number of people.  After today - the main argument about the stress of having to pick rides 30 days out has gone out the window as we saw that people had to do the same if not more planning today without the ability to choose their own times and the rides they couldn't get in advance then are basically the ones you have to pay for now anyway so that is out the window as well.
> 
> So in sum . . . it offers value over a standby only system.  It offers far less value than FP+.



If you have read any of my posts on here you will see I am not pleased with G+, especially when it comes to no re-rides.

Totally agree that FP+ at WDW and MP and DLR were far superior. (MaxPass being my favorite)

But I will do anything to avoid standby, so I can see value. May not be everything I wanted, but I will take it over what I dealt with during spring break standby lines and having no options.


----------



## mab2012

So I'm trying to figure out the rules around stacking.  Let's suppose that sometime before 9 am I book my first G+ selection for noon.  I wait my 2h from park opening, and at 11 am, I book a second for sometime in the afternoon, say 3 pm.

My understanding, from previous posts in this thread, is that when I tap in for my first selection, I can immediately book another.  That is, even though I'm still holding a G+ pass, I am not required to wait 120 minutes from the last selection to book another.

Assuming this is true (I'm not sure if it's really been confirmed, or if people are just guessing), are there any limitations on it?  So, continuing the above example, after my 12 pm ride, I book and use a couple more early afternoon selections, and then eventually jump over the 3 pm timeslot that I booked several hours earlier, and make a selection for 4 pm (or later).  What happens when I tap into that 3 pm ride?  Can I just keep leapfrogging those two stacked selections for the rest of the day?  I feel like this is unlikely, but at what point does the system recognize that actually, the selection you just tapped into was the "extra" one you were allowed to carry because of the earlier 120 minute wait, but now that you've used it, you have to wait another 2h, from your last selection, to stack again?

And even assuming that the software algorithm is written correctly (it's non-trivial and likely error prone), how do they do it in a way that is not massively confusing to the average guest, who can't figure out why they were allowed to carry two selections all day, but now they are suddenly restricted back to one?

Does anyone know how this worked with MaxPass?


----------



## g-dad66

wisblue said:


> I raise this not to single anyone out because I see it so often.
> 
> But why do so many people add an “e” to the word “lightning”, making it “lightening”, both for the electric bolts that come from the sky and things that move very quickly?
> 
> Is this a regional variation that isn’t covered in the dictionary?




I use "lightening" as a reminder to myself of how much this new system will be lightening my wallet.


----------



## nerdboyrockstar

Just bought our tickets for my family of 8's upcoming December trip and it now prompts you to add Genie+ to your tickets and already have it included every day of your trip.

I opted in for it but I'm an AP so it looks like I'll only have to buy it for myself that morning.


----------



## itf

Things seem to have changed overnight. Genie now believes I have tickets, so that’s progress I guess!


----------



## Gretch128

Gretch128 said:


> Fixed my Top Tips issue with the ‘something went wrong’ error.  So, I live in Ireland.  I used a VPN on my phone to say I was in the USA right now, and reopened the Top Tips tabs…it worked!  This may help other EU/UK/Canadian disney lovers with getting the app to work for them if they are struggling



Update:  I used the live chat feature in MDE yesterday to explain my problem with Top Tips.  Checked on that this morning and they didn't respond except to say it's resolved.  Checked Top Tips without VPN this morning and now it's working.


----------



## itf

No reply here from the MDE chat, and still broken. Huh, now it doesn't believe I have a valid park reservation again, although it did this morning and let me plan a couple of my days.


----------



## Gretch128

itf said:


> No reply here from the MDE chat, and still broken. Huh, now it doesn't believe I have a valid park reservation again, although it did this morning and let me plan a couple of my days.



Maybe they are working on your case right now...hopefully.  After they said it was resolved for me, they closed the case in live chat.  Did they close your live chat case yet?


----------



## itf

Gretch128 said:


> Maybe they are working on your case right now...hopefully.  After they said it was resolved for me, they closed the case in live chat.  Did they close your live chat case yet?



No just a an auto-reply message at 11:54 US time yesterday AM then nothing.


----------



## Juventus

The bar graphs for ride wait time estimates....are there numerical (time) values we can see?  I don't know what a bar half way up means...30 minute wait?

I sure touring plans are still the way to go for accurate times from  what I've seen here?


----------



## zebrastreyepz

ENJDisneyFan said:


> This is a pet peeve of mine too.  It’s not a regional variation, it’s a misspelling!
> 
> 
> Lightening = make or become lighter in weight, pressure, or severity.
> 
> Lightning = the occurrence of a natural electrical discharge of *very short duration* and high voltage between a cloud and the ground or within a cloud, accompanied by a bright flash and typically also thunder.



So, we're here to help with Disney and Grammar/Spelling?

Sheesh. Can't you people UNDERSTAND that some folks are DIFFERENTLY ABLED in this arena?


----------



## CWTC

Jrb1979 said:


> Personally I love the it. I hated all the planning and booking involved. My family is a go with the flow type.


And my family loved being able to book midday   60+10 midday fast passes so there was no reason to hurry to get up and leave.  No program they roll out is perfect for every user but G+ feels a bit like a hamster wheel - we had a perfectly nice day using it yesterday but on the bus back to BCV from Boo Bash I added it to our APs for today. I just woke up and can’t go back to sleep because I don’t want to miss 7am.  FP+ isn't coming back and we'll have to adapt because we'd prefer to not stand in line.  I miss sleeping in.


----------



## PaladinButters

DavidNYC said:


> Well - then they got you and they were hoping some people would have short memories. But I think the vast majority of here are perfectly capable of comparing this to the old system.



I mean..... I'm fully aware that FP+ scheduling was better (for us, personally) but there were plenty of people on the boards here asking for a Maxpass/ no pre-schedule type thing (here it is, almost what you asked for) or no FP return of any kind at all (I'll never understand those people).  I didn't forget that.  But since FP+ is not an option, I have to judge what's in front of me when deciding if I'm going to give the mouse any more money at all.  Right now this doesn't sound like a deal breaker. But, I haven't used it myself (or chose not to buy it but experienced the parks with others that do buy) so come see me in 95 more days and maybe I'll feel different. 



fly girl said:


> But I will do anything to avoid standby, so I can see value. May not be everything I wanted, but I will take it over what I dealt with during spring break standby lines and having no options.



I found my people!  I also pay for Express Pass at Universal parks, Fast Lane Plus at Cedar Fair parks, and Flash Pass at Six Flags parks, and formerly MaxPass at Disneyland.  It's built into the ticket pricing already in my head.


----------



## KNovacovschi

LSUfan4444 said:


> 6 days x $15 day + tax = $187?
> 
> What am I missing?



It’s the price for PH and Genie+


----------



## Jonfw2

In banking, we do what’s called “stress testing” where we simulate how banks would operate under the worst possible scenarios- massive recession, market crash, etc. 

The stress test for Genie+ is coming at Christmas.


----------



## Mrs~Incredible

DisneyKidds said:


> It’s been interesting following this thread today.  Unfortunately it is just deepening my disappointment in what Disney has become.
> 
> No doubt (in my mind at least) Disney has been going in a negative direction for some time now, but this new pay for play, stop trying to beat them and join them (OR is Disney ACTUALLY going to BEAT the other guys at separating you from your money?), nickel and dime commoditization of the parks has taken Disney over the edge.
> 
> Is there really any arguing that G+ is less flexible than any previous iteration of FP, and that G+ and ILL$ together cost quite a bit more $ to get what used to be included in the price of your already pricey admission ticket?
> 
> I didn’t think so.
> 
> However, it’s not the $$$ that disappoints me the most. I mean, people will be clamoring for the whole Genie/LL thing. With so much invested in an expensive trip already what’s a few more five hundy or a thousand bucks across the fam? We are all pot committed, and Disney knows it. Like many we could afford it….and I’ll probably disappoint myself and use it all sparingly despite despising the direction….even though my gut says to not pay out of protest.
> 
> No, more so than the $$ it’s the lack of flexibility, the lack of any real sense of community and family that Disney has been showing, and seems to be reinforcing with Genie’s help, that disappoints me most.  It wasn’t all that long ago that Disney touted Grand Gatherings and the coming together of generations of families in a Magical place. Now the only magic going on is **POOF** Genie disappearing money from your wallet.
> 
> Seriously, one can only make LL reservations for 12 people?  We’ve got a trip of 19 people coming up next year.  Same 19 people we went with three or four years ago.  Then, with FP+, while we had multiple people making FP reservations, at least we could coordinate and have everyone get FP+ reservations around the same time.  We succeeded in getting FP rides together, the whole group of 19.  There’s not a snowballs chance in hades that happens with G+ next year, as who know what return times might be offered when we have multiple people, at different times, try to make LL reservations, assuming that every family in our group of 19 will even go for adding upwards of $40 a day pp to the cost of the vacation.
> 
> People have been opining for a while that Disney no longer cares about loyal, long term guests.  They obviously don’t care about large groups, either.  This whole thing just reinforces, for me at least, that all Disney really cares about any more is separating as much money from a family as quickly as possible, then moving on to the next, and the next.  Disney has always been expensive, but it never felt like they were fleecing you.  It’s a shame that has changed as much as it has.




perfectly said.


----------



## mshanson3121

Jrb1979 said:


> IMO from reading the comments, I think the issue people have with Genie+ is not necessarily the cost but that they took away the spreadsheet planning that most loved. I would bet even if Genie+ was free most would hate it.
> 
> 
> Personally I love the it. I hated all the planning and booking involved. My family is a go with the flow type.



Honestly, I hate everything about it. I hate the cost, I hate that it doesn't include rides that used to be included, so now we have to pay even more for those, I hate that we can't choose times. As a family that has to take a 3-4 hour break in the afternoon for health reasons - this is an especially huge drawback, since it now means even after paying almost $100 CDN extra per day, we'll be lucky if we can get times that work for us on rides that we want.

We are pretty go with the flow people. We don't walk into the park with a spreadsheet. We stop and smell the roses. But FP+ gave us that luxury by allowing us to book those 3 main rides we wanted to do, at a time that worked for us without having to stand in line for 1-2 hours - for each ride. So then, we _could_ just wing it for the rest of our day.


----------



## jimim

Ok I’m trying to understand this all. Not like it matters for me cause I won’t step foot in the parks again till maybe end of next year but. 

the extra 2 paid rides. U guys call them ill$? Not LL right?

you can book them back to back at 7 am if on property right? U don’t have to use the 1 and then book second right?

if so I can go on at 7 and grab say rise and Mickey Minnie train for at night in Hollywood studios right?

But they have to be 2 hours apart thought right?  Which I think is pathetic if I’m paying extra for a ride. Complete waste of time. Or maybe it will be nice at night. Go on one ride. Grab a snack walk a little chill out. We like to crush it at night when we don’t watch a parade or show. We used to love doing that in magic kingdom when lines allowed it. Or refreshing like a mad man from ride to ride later at night.

ahhhh the good ol’ days. “Kids when I was your age. . .”


----------



## Boardwalk III

Juventus said:


> The bar graphs for ride wait time estimates....are there numerical (time) values we can see?  I don't know what a bar half way up means...30 minute wait?
> 
> I sure touring plans are still the way to go for accurate times from  what I've seen here?



This! So crazy


----------



## MrBellatrixLestrange

Here we go again...


----------



## catnik

MakiraMarlena said:


> Yep, slinky was filled for the day by noon. But it's the only one (outside of the ILL category)


Ok


PaladinButters said:


> I mean..... I'm fully aware that FP+ scheduling was better (for us, personally) but there were plenty of people on the boards here asking for a Maxpass/ no pre-schedule type thing (here it is, almost what you asked for) or no FP return of any kind at all (I'll never understand those people).  I didn't forget that.  But since FP+ is not an option, I have to judge what's in front of me when deciding if I'm going to give the mouse any more money at all.  Right now this doesn't sound like a deal breaker. But, I haven't used it myself (or chose not to buy it but experienced the parks with others that do buy) so come see me in 95 more days and maybe I'll feel different.
> 
> 
> 
> I found my people!  I also pay for Express Pass at Universal parks, Fast Lane Plus at Cedar Fair parks, and Flash Pass at Six Flags parks, and formerly MaxPass at Disneyland.  It's built into the ticket pricing already in my head.


 Totally agree with you. While I preferred FP+ as I had learned how to use it most effectively, IT IS NOT COMING BACK. Others can continue to grieve what was taken away, but I am focused on figuring out how to make this system work most efficiently for my family. Do I want to spend the extra $? Not really. But that is now how the Disney game is played and my budgeting for future trips will include one less high end ADR to zero out the cost of Genie+ and ILL$.


----------



## scrappinginontario

Post has been cleaned up. 

*Please stop the discussion of MaxPass was $x.xx and Genie+ is $x.xx and therefore **** is the better option.  It's not helping anyone.  Let each person choose which option they like best.  Each person is allowed to have an opinion on this and they are not wrong for having that opinion.*

Posts that continue to point this out will be removed.

Posts and posters are expected to comply with these guidelines at all times.

You may disagree with a poster’s viewpoint, and discuss the issue, but no name calling, being sarcastic or personal attacks.

It is often good advice if you see a thread or post which your are unhappy with to walk away and give yourself a time out. Alternatively use the report post button which will alert all the moderators and the webmasters to any post, where appropriate action if necessary will be taken. If you add a comment yourself you may also face infractions as per the guidelines.


----------



## MJJME

catnik said:


> Ok
> 
> ⬆⬆ Totally agree with you. While I preferred FP+ as I had learned how to use it most effectively, IT IS NOT COMING BACK. Others can continue to grieve what was taken away, but I am focused on figuring out how to make this system work most efficiently for my family. Do I want to spend the extra $? Not really. But that is now how the Disney game is played and my budgeting for future trips will include one less high end ADR to zero out the cost of Genie+ and ILL$.


One less?  Genie+ and IAS for my family of 5 for 7 days costs $1,295.    That’s not skipping a high end restaurant, that’s not eating on the trip.


----------



## MrBellatrixLestrange

scrappinginontario said:


> Post has been cleaned up.
> 
> *Please stop the discussion of MaxPass was $x.xx and Genie+ is $x.xx and there fore **** is the better option.  It's not helping anyone.  Let each person choose which option they like best.  Each person is allowed to have an opinion on this and they are not wrong for having that opinion.*
> 
> Posts that continue to point this out will be removed.
> 
> Posts and posters are expected to comply with these guidelines at all times.
> 
> You may disagree with a poster’s viewpoint, and discuss the issue, but no name calling, being sarcastic or personal attacks.
> 
> It is often good advice if you see a thread or post which your are unhappy with to walk away and give yourself a time out. Alternatively use the report post button which will alert all the moderators and the webmasters to any post, where appropriate action if necessary will be taken. If you add a comment yourself you may also face infractions as per the guidelines.


Everyone is allowed their opinion as long as they agree with me. If they disagree they're a cotton-headed ninimuggins and need to be informed of it.


----------



## MakiraMarlena

I'm further convinced that I do not need to use Genie+ ever for Epcot or Animal Kingdom. It is most effective at DHS (more long lines to skip) but the best value is at MK (more attractions). since I'm not paying for a family (Yes, I understand that most Disney visitors have to pay for a family), I might try it for a day at MK on my next trip just to jump on as many rides as possible, including the ones I always skip over. Just for fun. I'll be out $16 which is the cost of a cocktail.


----------



## Bibbobboo2u

We used G+ at HWS yesterday, so here are a few thoughts about it.  (1)We didn’t like the inflexibility of it.  While you can see next available time for every LL ride in your park, you can’t modify your choice after selecting.  You have to cancel and then choose what is currently offered.   (2)We were on our phones much more than usual and had to start recharging early afternoon.  We set alarms as reminders for when we could pull next LL, and while I think app showed a time for when you could make next selection, we didn’t want to miss it.  For those who disliked being on phones to get additional FPs after first 3, you are really not going to like G+ because you now have to do this for every ride. (3) Just like FP, LL rides can run out, so you have to decide if you would rather book favorite first or risk pulling later so you can get closer to desired time if you have one. Ex - pull SDD first (which we did) or wait to try to get evening return time that we preferred.  We didn’t want to take that chance. (4) We were unable to pull our second LL ride after tapping into SDD, as we were supposed to be able to do.  It took about 35 minutes and 4 cast members to get this resolved, which was happening during our lunch pick up time.  I stayed to resolve while DH got food.  They tried several different things but finally had to take my magic band to the second SDD tap point and rescan it to clear the ride off my G+.  The reason this was a G+ issue is that while this was happening, our next return window for our next ride jumped back by over an hour, which then pushed our whole day back if that makes sense.  Guest services was great and gave us a recovery LL pass for the next ride we had wanted that we could use at any time and also gave us another LL pass to a different ride but for the next available  slot she could find.  It was just a lot to deal with.  (My scan at second SDD had turned blue rather than green, while DH was green.  I said to CM “shouldn’t that be green”, and she replied “It’s fine - come in through.”  It wasn’t fine!) And (5) We were able to pull 4 LL rides, not counting the “pixie dust” extra ride we were given.  So in conclusion, we didn’t like G+.


----------



## hdrolfe

Based on yesterday, it seems I may want to pay for a couple of the individual rides, and maybe at Magic Kingdom or Hollywood Studios when we go next week. I'll keep watching though and see how it plays out over the week. And since we have two days at both MK & HS, we may do the first one without it and see if we do need it on the second day we go. I don't see a need at AK or Epcot though, we have no desire to ride Remy and Test Track has a single ride line (right? that's still there I hope!), everything else looked pretty good for wait times. Epcot we don't arrive until later any way, after we get in, and we'll be on a flight at 7AM, or possible in the airport security line at that point, no way to get it for the park any way.


----------



## MJJME

nerdboyrockstar said:


> Just bought our tickets for my family of 8's upcoming December trip and it now prompts you to add Genie+ to your tickets and already have it included every day of your trip.
> 
> I opted in for it but I'm an AP so it looks like I'll only have to buy it for myself that morning.


I wouldnt buy it for your entire trip.......Let it play out here since its likely you are not going to need it for most days..


----------



## LSUfan4444

PaladinButters said:


> I didn't forget that. But since FP+ is not an option, I have to judge what's in front of me when deciding if I'm going to give the mouse any more money at all.



Agree with alot of what you said and I'll continue to push the idea that this doesnt have to cost guests more money. Try to find the money in the Disney budget other places...for us, it's less ADRs. Outside of a few exceptions, while the cost has continued to go up and we love the service we just can't justify doing the amount of ADRs we used (usually avg'd one per day per trip). Now, we're lucky if we do three over a week long trip.

The $250 pp cost (or so) for a 6/7 day trip for ILLs and G+ will come directly out of our ADR, souvenir and snack purchases. I hate that for the table service CMs but it is what it is.


----------



## LSUfan4444

MakiraMarlena said:


> I'm further convinced that I do not need to use Genie+ ever for Epcot or Animal Kingdom.



I like the use at Epcot if you want to start your day in World Showcase then move to future world (or whatever it's called now) or for a later arrival but a rope drop arrival, use of single rider at TT and then move to WS I'd agree


----------



## CWTC

Bibbobboo2u said:


> We set alarms as reminders for when we could pull next LL, and while I think app showed a time for when you could make next selection,
> 
> We were unable to pull our second LL ride after tapping into SDD, as we were supposed to be able to do.


The app does tell you when you can grab your next LL.

Yes we discovered for rides with two tap points  we had to clear the second tap point to get the next LL.

to your larger point, we almost got taken out many times at DHS by people walking with their phones and not paying attention.  That is a huge issue.


----------



## wisblue

nerdboyrockstar said:


> Just bought our tickets for my family of 8's upcoming December trip and it now prompts you to add Genie+ to your tickets and already have it included every day of your trip.
> 
> I opted in for it but I'm an AP so it looks like I'll only have to buy it for myself that morning.



It looks like for new daily tickets they are adding G+ as an option like park hopping. But for AP you’ll have to add G+ every day.

For existing daily tickets you can change the ticket type to add G+, of course paying the difference.

For our group of me with an AP plus 3 family members with daily tickets I’ll probably hold off on that change of the daily tickets at least for now. I expect to be adding G+ but if I have to add it each day myself it won’t be a big deal to have one of the group of 3 add it to all of theirs.

Waiting will give me more time to decide if we might want to purchase G+ on just some days, or maybe not at all.


----------



## BridgetR3

I have looked and can not find it but is there anyway to see the ILL$ pricing for the rides you may want before the morning of in order to budget out more money??  This is ridiculous.  I hate the new system.


----------



## MJJME

MakiraMarlena said:


> I'm further convinced that I do not need to use Genie+ ever for Epcot or Animal Kingdom. It is most effective at DHS (more long lines to skip) but the best value is at MK (more attractions). since I'm not paying for a family (Yes, I understand that most Disney visitors have to pay for a family), I might try it for a day at MK on my next trip just to jump on as many rides as possible, including the ones I always skip over. Just for fun. I'll be out $16 which is the cost of a cocktail.


If possible, please do a second day without Genie+ and compare how many rides you got on and the total wiat times in one vs the other....

Would love to see some comparative data


----------



## wisblue

BridgetR3 said:


> I have looked and can not find it but is there anyway to see the ILL$ pricing for the rides you may want before the morning of in order to budget out more money??  This is ridiculous.  I hate the new system.



I don’t think so, at least not yet.

Probably the best you can do is estimate based on what they are charging now. After a couple of weeks we will see how much the prices change from day to day, or even if they change the attractions subject to IALL.


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

zebrastreyepz said:


> So, we're here to help with Disney and Grammar/Spelling?
> 
> Sheesh. Can't you people UNDERSTAND that some folks are DIFFERENTLY ABLED in this arena?


I meant no offense to anyone by my post.  If I was repeatedly misspelling/misusing a word, I’d appreciate being told 


BridgetR3 said:


> I have looked and can not find it but is there anyway to see the ILL$ pricing for the rides you may want before the morning of in order to budget out more money??  This is ridiculous.  I hate the new system.


These are yesterday’s prices, to give you an idea.  It would definitely be nice to see a calendar similar to what they have for ticket prices.


----------



## zebrastreyepz

ENJDisneyFan said:


> I meant no offense to anyone by my post.  If I was repeatedly misspelling/misusing a word, I’d appreciate being told


You'd appreciate it because you have relatively few issues in this area.

But! If you were dyslexic or had a different learning disability, you would feel hurt, ashamed, and frustrated because ONCE AGAIN, you screwed it up.


----------



## cjlong88

M SH said:


> Sorry I don’t really mean to pick on you. I’m reading this post and just makes me think on where we were with FP+ where one could do all of this for no extra charge. But now people are planning on spending on g+ and ias per day and calling it awesome. SMH


I don’t feel like I’m being picked on. But I am going to continue to be excited about skipping the line even if I now have to pay. I’m not thrilled about it, but I do think this new system benefits my touring style, and I’m choosing to see what benefits I can get out of it. For me, walking into a park in the evening with potentially 5 LL’s that aren’t tiered over 3 FP’s that we’re tiered (and a system that forced me to choose tier two rides that I might not have cared about before getting the extra ones I do) sounds awesome to me. I was someone who maximized refresh and could usually find what I wanted, but this way I will be off my phone more in the evenings if I have more stacked before entering. Again, this just fits me better, not saying it’s superior or correct.

And people are totally allowed to choose to be upset about it. That doesn’t bother me one bit. Let people feel what they feel, see the good or the bad or both. I am choosing my energy and attitude to be positive.


----------



## PaladinButters

MJJME said:


> One less? Genie+ and IAS for my family of 5 for 7 days costs $1,295. That’s not skipping a high end restaurant, that’s not eating on the trip.





MJJME said:


> I wouldnt buy it for your entire trip.......Let it play out here since its likely you are not going to need it for most days..



I think most posters here are assuming you would follow your own advice and therefore it wouldn't be $1,295 but a much more reasonable amount..... say the amount of skipping a TS ADR for the family/


----------



## snikki

Change is inevitable. Disney has changed this system every ten years or so? Legacy FP, FP+ and now G+. In 8-10 years it’ll be something new and it’ll be way more expensive. That’s the way of the world.

Prices for all vacation destinations have gone up. You get less for more money. We don’t only vacation at Disney. We only go every 2-3ish years. Most of my vacations I took ten years ago are now easily double the price. I remember when all inclusives included steak and lobster, now most places have that as an up charge.

Have you seen the prices for flash pass at six flags? $90 minimum per day per person. We go to the Jersey shore and the pier rides used to have wrist bands for all you care to ride. Now it’s a pay per ride system and it’s pricey!

I guess for me G+ isn’t that big of a deal because we don’t do Disney 3-4 times a year or even every year. When we choose it as a vacation destination we know there will be changes and we roll with it. Just like we do with every vacation destination we want to go to. If the changes were that bad or not to our liking we would go elsewhere.


----------



## lorileahb

MJJME said:


> I wouldnt buy it for your entire trip.......Let it play out here since its likely you are not going to need it for most days..



How do you buy it for just one day?


----------



## snikki

lorileahb said:


> How do you buy it for just one day?



You have to buy it after midnight the day of for a single day purchase.


----------



## Sunelis

lorileahb said:


> How do you buy it for just one day?


Via MDE. You have to buy it "day of" each day if you don't want it for your entire trip.


----------



## lorileahb

snikki said:


> You have to buy it after midnight the day of for a single day purchase.





Sunelis said:


> Via MDE. You have to buy it "day of" each day if you don't want it for your entire trip.



Thank you - we don't go until tomorrow, and I only saw the option to change our ticket (which does it for all the days).


----------



## fla4fun

I have looked through and didn’t see this question, so I apologize if it has been addressed.  I see where parties with a combination of APs and regular tickets can’t book together because the ticket type has to match.

My question is, do all the APs have to be identical?  I have a platinum, and the other two family members have silver passes.  

I doubt if we will pay for either Genie+ or the individual LL attractions, but if they want to, I want to know what I am up against.  The silvers don’t get to the park as often as I do, so they might be willing to open their wallets, especially since our efforts to ride ROTR have never worked out.


----------



## PaladinButters

ENJDisneyFan said:


> I meant no offense to anyone by my post. If I was repeatedly misspelling/misusing a word, I’d appreciate being told



Please do tell me if I do this before someone much less kinds does it later.


----------



## jimim

I'm just going to post these questions again to make sure I understand parts of this.  It got buried already.


Ok I’m trying to understand this all. Not like it matters for me cause I won’t step foot in the parks again till maybe end of next year but.

the extra 2 paid rides. U guys call them ill$? Not LL right?

you can book them back to back at 7 am if on property right? U don’t have to use the 1 and then book second right?

if so I can go on at 7 and grab say rise and Mickey Minnie train for at night in Hollywood studios right?

But they have to be 2 hours apart thought right?


Thanks!


----------



## SirDuff

zebrastreyepz said:


> You'd appreciate it because you have relatively few issues in this area.
> 
> But! If you were dyslexic or had a different learning disability, you would feel hurt, ashamed, and frustrated because ONCE AGAIN, you screwed it up.



Just say that you're using the Canadian spelling.

We don't actually spell it differently but I've found that most people don't know which words we spell differently, so just believe you (said as a dysgraphic Canadian who lived in the US and now lives in Europe).


----------



## DisneyKidds

MrBellatrixLestrange said:


> Everyone is allowed their opinion as long as they agree with me. If they disagree they're a cotton-headed ninimuggins and need to be informed of it.


Well done….cotton headed ninimuggins!  Haha!!!!


----------



## PaladinButters

DisneyKidds said:


> but it’s what that exchange represents, in the context of how Disney always used to do business and treat people, that is so infuriating. That story would make a great editorial against Disney though….



This is currently one story of one cast member who does not necessarily represent the way Disney in general treats people.  You sound like you're ready to write up some click bait for ITM.


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

jimim said:


> I'm just going to post these questions again to make sure I understand parts of this.  It got buried already.
> 
> 
> Ok I’m trying to understand this all. Not like it matters for me cause I won’t step foot in the parks again till maybe end of next year but.
> 
> the extra 2 paid rides. U guys call them ill$? Not LL right?
> 
> you can book them back to back at 7 am if on property right? U don’t have to use the 1 and then book second right?
> 
> if so I can go on at 7 and grab say rise and Mickey Minnie train for at night in Hollywood studios right?
> 
> But they have to be 2 hours apart thought right?
> 
> 
> Thanks!


ILL$ can be booked back to back at 7am.  You choose the time slot you want (based on availability, of course).  They do not have to be 2 hours apart as far as I’ve heard.

ETA- 7am is for onsite guests.  Offsite guests book when “the park” opens (it is still unclear to me which park they are referring to though).


----------



## mshanson3121

jimim said:


> I'm just going to post these questions again to make sure I understand parts of this.  It got buried already.
> 
> 
> Ok I’m trying to understand this all. Not like it matters for me cause I won’t step foot in the parks again till maybe end of next year but.
> 
> the extra 2 paid rides. U guys call them ill$? Not LL right?
> 
> you can book them back to back at 7 am if on property right? U don’t have to use the 1 and then book second right?
> 
> if so I can go on at 7 and grab say rise and Mickey Minnie train for at night in Hollywood studios right?
> 
> But they have to be 2 hours apart thought right?
> 
> 
> Thanks!



Yes to all this but not sure on 2 hours


----------



## FCDub

BridgetR3 said:


> I have looked and can not find it but is there anyway to see the ILL$ pricing for the rides you may want before the morning of in order to budget out more money??  This is ridiculous.  I hate the new system.



It’s been in place for literally one day. Let’s not overreact.


----------



## DisneyKidds

LSUfan4444 said:


> Agree with alot of what you said and I'll continue to push the idea that this doesnt have to cost guests more money. Try to find the money in the Disney budget other places...for us, it's less ADRs. Outside of a few exceptions, while the cost has continued to go up and we love the service we just can't justify doing the amount of ADRs we used (usually avg'd one per day per trip). Now, we're lucky if we do three over a week long trip.
> 
> The $250 pp cost (or so) for a 6/7 day trip for ILLs and G+ will come directly out of our ADR, souvenir and snack purchases. I hate that for the table service CMs but it is what it is.


Yeah, people could do that, but it would just make them a hamster on Disney’s wheel, staying in a resort they’d rather not be in, not eating the food they want to eat….generally not doing the things that make a Disney trip worthwhile to them, all so Chapeck can pad a few quarters at the expense of the Disney legacy.     I understand, Disney won’t make money off of you as you run their wheel, but someone else will fill your spot at the table service restaurant you skipped, or so Disney thinks. At some point they won’t though, right?  I mean there has to be a tipping point….


----------



## eva

We are currently here at WDW. Yesterday we decided to test out Genie+ and two paid Lightening Lane Passes. We went to HS first, then hopped at 4pm to EPCOT. We decided it just isn’t worth the extra money and time it takes to do this. Right at 7am I added Genie+ and chose my first ride, SDD. You can’t choose another ride until 2 hours after the park opens. So at 11am we chose RNR. Then we couldn’t add another ride till 1pm. By that time everything we wanted to ride no longer had slots for Genie+. Slots did seem to open later in the evening, but we were already at EPCOT by then. We did do paid LL for ROTR and Ratatouille. ROTR was worth it, not Ratatouille. Now we are seasoned visitors (DVC since 1997), so we don’t want to ride some of the smaller attractions. And unfortunately that was all that was left by early afternoon. The price for all this was $39 plus tax per person. Interesting test, but not for us.


----------



## Sjm9911

Ok, now did anyone atually use the genie to guide them through the park? I see on here that most used the ll system. But did anyone trust disneys IT to tell them where to go in the park? I would be interested in how that worked out.


----------



## lovethattink

My experience yesterday, ended up at DHS with friends instead of MK as originally planned. We started out not using and lightning lanes. We waited 135 minutes for RotR. The amazing part, I didn’t hear anyone in queue complaining about the wait. The attraction broke down on us and we had to be evacuated. They scanned our bands at the exit and we got a redemption pass to use the Lightning Lane once it was working again.

The kids (all teens) did Rock n Roller standby. It said it was 35 minute wait. But there was a “custodial issue” in one of the cars so the wait time was much longer. Thankfully they weren’t stuck on the ride waiting. But some people were. It ended up about an hour wait.

We used the lightning lane for MMRR. There was another delay right before the preshow. I think we jinxed the rides, lol. There was no preshow.

We had 9 minutes before park closing so we quickly walked to RotR. Got in the Lightning Lane to use our redemption from earlier. Walked right into the preshow without any wait!

I think since we have AP, we will only buy G+ when we have friends and family visiting from out of state. Otherwise, we are fine skipping some attractions.

My only regret from yesterday, was missing my coconut dole whip at MK. DHS doesn't have my favorite snacks.


----------



## OhDannyBoy

eva said:


> We are currently here at WDW. Yesterday we decided to test out Genie+ and two paid Lightening Lane Passes. We went to HS first, then hopped at 4pm to EPCOT. We decided it just isn’t worth the extra money and time it takes to do this. Right at 7am I added Genie+ and chose my first ride, SDD. You can’t choose another ride until 2 hours after the park opens. So at 11am we chose RNR. Then we couldn’t add another ride till 1pm. By that time everything we wanted to ride no longer had slots for Genie+. Slots did seem to open later in the evening, but we were already at EPCOT by then. We did do paid LL for ROTR and Ratatouille. ROTR was worth it, not Ratatouille. Now we are seasoned visitors (DVC since 1997), so we don’t want to ride some of the smaller attractions. And unfortunately that was all that was left by early afternoon. The price for all this was $39 plus tax per person. Interesting test, but not for us.


Why couldn't you pick another ride until 1PM? Was your second one set for 1 PM?


----------



## CWTC

Sjm9911 said:


> Ok, now did anyone atually use the genie to guide them through the park? I see on here that most used the ll system. But did anyone trust disneys IT to tell them where to go in the park? I would be interested in how that worked out.


We did not.  I spent a lot of time removing the genies suggestions because they were creating clutter that I didn’t want.


----------



## DisneyKidds

PaladinButters said:


> This is currently one story of one cast member who does not necessarily represent the way Disney in general treats people.  You sound like you're ready to write up some click bait for ITM.


I’ve never written clickbait for anyone, anywhere.  This one wouldn’t be a bad place to start though!  Also, if you think this was a rando suit up the in park cast member chain I’d bet you’d be way wrong.  I’m sure the senior in park cast members were given the direction and talking about the “monetization” issues.  I mean, what Disney cast member worth a whit would say that garbage on their own in those circumstances?


----------



## MakiraMarlena

jimim said:


> the extra 2 paid rides. U guys call them ill$? Not LL right?


 Disney calls them Individual Lightning Lane Selections - ILLS. Some like to add the $ to reflect the cost.


----------



## katyringo

Today livingbydisney is showing her genie+, lightning lane and early entry day.


----------



## PaladinButters

DisneyKidds said:


> I mean, what Disney cast member worth a whit would say that garbage on their own in those circumstances?



That's _exactly_ my point. I'm sure Disney didn't tell everyone - make sure you say 'monetize' because people like it much better when you remind them that they already paid for the thing you are saying no to - and would bet that those are the words of the CM and not the company (or the words of the person telling the story, I wasn't there to hear it).


----------



## Marionnette

Sjm9911 said:


> Ok, now did anyone atually use the genie to guide them through the park? I see on here that most used the ll system. But did anyone trust disneys IT to tell them where to go in the park? I would be interested in how that worked out.


I believe that Touring Plans will be doing this in the coming days and they will vlog about it.


----------



## Sjm9911

Marionnette said:


> I believe that Touring Plans will be doing this in the coming days and they will vlog about it.


Hope its soon, im running out of time here! Lol.


----------



## eva

OhDannyBoy said:


> Why couldn't you pick another ride until 1PM? Was your second one set for 1 PM?


Our second ride wasn’t till 1:20. I think that my major issue was choosing SDD for our first ride. We didn’t get a time till 11:30. we could have maybe squeezed another LL ride out if we had chosen a less popular ride for our first slot. But SDD was completely gone by 1pm. And I never could get FP+ for this ride in the past. So this ride was on my radar. At 11:00 we got RNR for 1:20. So we had to wait till 1:00 to book another. The slots are pretty spaced out. You are not going to ride—ride—ride on Genie+. Well if you are only looking at minor attractions, maybe.


----------



## DisneyKidds

PaladinButters said:


> That's _exactly_ my point. I'm sure Disney didn't tell everyone - make sure you say 'monetize' because people like it much better when you remind them that they already paid for the thing you are saying no to - and would bet that those are the words of the CM and not the company (or the words of the person telling the story, I wasn't there to hear it).


No that’s exactly MY point.  Did Disney tell them to specifically say “monitize”?  Probably not.  However, I’m sure there was a meeting about rollout of Disney+ where the subject was discussed and cast members were told to not provide re-rides or line skips or the kind of random moments of Magic that used to make a difference.  “Now that we’ve monetized” got into that cast member’s head someone, because nobody really talks like that on their own!!


----------



## rmclain73

eva said:


> We are currently here at WDW. Yesterday we decided to test out Genie+ and two paid Lightening Lane Passes. We went to HS first, then hopped at 4pm to EPCOT. We decided it just isn’t worth the extra money and time it takes to do this. Right at 7am I added Genie+ and chose my first ride, SDD. You can’t choose another ride until 2 hours after the park opens. So at 11am we chose RNR. Then we couldn’t add another ride till 1pm. By that time everything we wanted to ride no longer had slots for Genie+. Slots did seem to open later in the evening, but we were already at EPCOT by then. We did do paid LL for ROTR and Ratatouille. ROTR was worth it, not Ratatouille. Now we are seasoned visitors (DVC since 1997), so we don’t want to ride some of the smaller attractions. And unfortunately that was all that was left by early afternoon. The price for all this was $39 plus tax per person. Interesting test, but not for us.



I am just asking out of curiosity if you are aware that you can choose a new ride as soon as you scan into a LL.  You do not have to wait 2 hours everytime for a new selection.  The only you have to wait 2 hours is when your LL selection is further than 2 hours away.

UPDATE:  I see you just responded to someone as I was typing this message.


----------



## OhDannyBoy

eva said:


> Our second ride wasn’t till 1:20. I think that my major issue was choosing SDD for our first ride. We didn’t get a time till 11:30. we could have maybe squeezed another LL ride out if we had chosen a less popular ride for our first slot. But SDD was completely gone by 1pm. And I never could get FP+ for this ride in the past. So this ride was on my radar. At 11:00 we got RNR for 1:20. So we had to wait till 1:00 to book another. The slots are pretty spaced out. You are not going to ride—ride—ride on Genie+. Well if you are only looking at minor attractions, maybe.


Ohhh ok that makes sense.


----------



## rmclain73

eva said:


> Our second ride wasn’t till 1:20. I think that my major issue was choosing SDD for our first ride. We didn’t get a time till 11:30. we could have maybe squeezed another LL ride out if we had chosen a less popular ride for our first slot. But SDD was completely gone by 1pm. And I never could get FP+ for this ride in the past. So this ride was on my radar. At 11:00 we got RNR for 1:20. So we had to wait till 1:00 to book another. The slots are pretty spaced out. You are not going to ride—ride—ride on Genie+. Well if you are only looking at minor attractions, maybe.




Same as old FP+ try refreshing the times just prior to confirming your selection.  It seems like people are cancelling and changing all the time.  Sooner times will open.  You just have to be quick like FP.  I was following someone at Magic Kingdom on twitter yesterday who got 12 LLs.  I will give you though that HS will be a much harder park to a lot of LLs.


----------



## MJJME

PaladinButters said:


> I think most posters here are assuming you would follow your own advice and therefore it wouldn't be $1,295 but a much more reasonable amount..... say the amount of skipping a TS ADR for the family/


Correct but the point of the post is that to get the equivalent of what I used to get under FP+, it now costs $1,295

Plus as i said before, I do like IAS and will pay for it

Genie+ to me is not worth it, almost on any day.....would i like to have it if it was free?  100%..........is it worth the cost?  100% no (of course thats just to me)


----------



## MJJME

eva said:


> We are currently here at WDW. Yesterday we decided to test out Genie+ and two paid Lightening Lane Passes. We went to HS first, then hopped at 4pm to EPCOT. We decided it just isn’t worth the extra money and time it takes to do this. Right at 7am I added Genie+ and chose my first ride, SDD. You can’t choose another ride until 2 hours after the park opens. So at 11am we chose RNR. Then we couldn’t add another ride till 1pm. By that time everything we wanted to ride no longer had slots for Genie+. Slots did seem to open later in the evening, but we were already at EPCOT by then. We did do paid LL for ROTR and Ratatouille. ROTR was worth it, not Ratatouille. Now we are seasoned visitors (DVC since 1997), so we don’t want to ride some of the smaller attractions. And unfortunately that was all that was left by early afternoon. The price for all this was $39 plus tax per person. Interesting test, but not for us.


This is why i think Genie+ will be a flop.......

i dont see many people doing this more than once, epsecially locals who cannot add it onto their AP for a single price and have to pay EVERY trip to the park

I think that it will all end up migrating to IAS for every ride and Genie+ will go away


----------



## mshanson3121

rmclain73 said:


> Same as old FP+ try refreshing the times just prior to confirming your selection.  It seems like people are cancelling and changing all the time.  Sooner times will open.  You just have to be quick like FP.  I was following someone at Magic Kingdom on twitter yesterday who got 12 LLs.  I will give you though that HS will be a much harder park to a lot of LLs.



Except before you could do this in the comfort of your home (for your first 3 at least), not while standing in the park wasting time.

Also, the people who got 12 LL were getting primarily the "little" rides, not the bigger ones. And I'm also going to guess they were bloggers that didn't have kids with them, and didn't mind having to zig zag all over the park chasing rides.


----------



## mshanson3121

MJJME said:


> I think that it will all end up migrating to IAS for every ride and Genie+ will go away



This. It'll be a modern, far more expensive version, of what Disney used to be - pay to enter with a few rides included free, and then pay by the ride for the rest. Which honestly would have been the simpler and probably better way to go.


----------



## PaladinButters

eva said:


> You are not going to ride—ride—ride on Genie+. Well if you are only looking at minor attractions, maybe.



Just like the FP+ tiers would force you away from stacking headliners in the mornings. Predicting upcoming G+++ "thrill pass" that gives you access in 3....2.....


----------



## LSUfan4444

DisneyKidds said:


> Yeah, people could do that, but it would just make them a hamster on Disney’s wheel, staying in a resort they’d rather not be in, not eating the food they want to eat….generally not doing the things that make a Disney trip worthwhile to them, all so Chapeck can pad a few quarters at the expense of the Disney legacy.     I understand, Disney won’t make money off of you as you run their wheel, but someone else will fill your spot at the table service restaurant you skipped, or so Disney thinks. At some point they won’t though, right?  I mean there has to be a tipping point….



I guess then it will cost you more but thats more budgeting than being on a hamster wheel. You have to give up some things you might want for things you want more. If you want it all, it will cost more.


----------



## mshanson3121

PaladinButters said:


> *Just like the FP+ tiers would force you away from stacking headliners in the mornings*. Predicting upcoming G+++ "thrill pass" that gives you access in 3....2.....



Except at MK. That was so nice.


----------



## snikki

Brooke McDonald on IG is reporting via her story. She started at DHS today.


----------



## Disturbia

jimim said:


> I'm just going to post these questions again to make sure I understand parts of this.  It got buried already.
> 
> 
> Ok I’m trying to understand this all. Not like it matters for me cause I won’t step foot in the parks again till maybe end of next year but.
> 
> the extra 2 paid rides. U guys call them ill$? Not LL right?
> 
> you can book them back to back at 7 am if on property right? U don’t have to use the 1 and then book second right?
> 
> if so I can go on at 7 and grab say rise and Mickey Minnie train for at night in Hollywood studios right?
> 
> But they have to be 2 hours apart thought right?
> 
> 
> Thanks!


Someone stacked 2 LLIA$ and first Genie+ in the same 1.5 hours.  They are separate and the LLIA$ can overlap.


----------



## LSUfan4444

eva said:


> You are not going to ride—ride—ride on Genie+. Well if you are only looking at minor attractions, maybe.



Totally agree,,,standby is unavoidable unless you prefer to spend your time waiting on a park bench. Either way, if you want to do the most popular rides on G+ you're going to wait. Either in a standby line or waiting for your next G+ attraction. 

How people use the standby lines will be key...you're not going to be able to G+ your way to no waits.


----------



## Belle70

I understand the appeal of Genie+ and iLL$,  but the more I read about them in practice, the more I can see myself avoiding them.
Not only do they cost extra, but they seem overly complicated, clunky and I think this  would make me more dependent on my phone.
I am admittedly old-school but the idea of using free Genie as a resource for planning along with others, being able to have a flexible plan and leaving some decisions until I'm at the park appeals to me.  I don't mind standing in a few lines if I can be back in WDW (in about a year).  Or it could be that I'm just frugal (aka cheap).


----------



## catnik

MJJME said:


> One less?  Genie+ and IAS for my family of 5 for 7 days costs $1,295.    That’s not skipping a high end restaurant, that’s not eating on the trip.


For my family of 4, Genie+ will be primarily used in MK and HS and not every day on a multiple day trip. 2ILL$ every day x multiple days add up for sure. But EE and rope dropping the ILL$ rides would decrease that cost significantly. I think as time goes on, people will be able to figure out ways to maximize the efficient use of both Genie+ and ILL$ while minimizing cost. One high end ADR for us is $350-400. I believe I can plan our use of Genie and ILL$ to = that cost, but your situation may well be different


----------



## DisneyKidds

LSUfan4444 said:


> I guess then it will cost you more but thats more budgeting than being on a hamster wheel. You have to give up some things you might want for things you want more. If you want it all, it will cost more.


Yup.  I mean, if we give up the resorts and meals we like (those are just as important to us as the parks) then what’s the point in going?  But we’re locked in (DVC, and not yet inclined to sell, yet).  So, we’ll go, use this new G+/ILL$ nonsense as sparingly as we can, trying to enjoy what vestiges of old Disney still remain for as long as we can stomach it.  Now THAT’S a great way to feel about your vacation!  

Yeah, yeah, yeah….things get more expensive, that’s how the world works, yadda, yadda, Yoda.  But as I’ve said all along….it’s not about the money, even though Disney’s price increases and money grabs lately are hard to justify outside of the “as long as suckers keep paying it” modus operandi.  It’s about the process, the eroding of any real value, the customer focus (or lack thereof)…..all the things that made (past tense) Disney special and not just like the other guys, because Walt’s entire point for creating DL was to have a park that wasn’t just like the other guys!


----------



## KayKayJS

Been watching this closely and keeping an eye on the tip board. We will be trying this on Sunday with our 2 year old. Not gonna lie, kind of excited to not have to wait in a 45 minute line for MMRR with her, last time was terrible. For us with a toddler - I'm willing to pay.


----------



## Disturbia

Is there a new thread on just how Genie, Genie+ and LL work?  Some of us have just a few days to get a hang of the system before arriving.


----------



## PaladinButters

MJJME said:


> This is why i think Genie+ will be a flop.......
> 
> i dont see many people doing this more than once, epsecially locals who cannot add it onto their AP for a single price and have to pay EVERY trip to the park
> 
> I think that it will all end up migrating to IAS for every ride and Genie+ will go away





mshanson3121 said:


> This. It'll be a modern, far more expensive version, of what Disney used to be - pay to enter with a few rides included free, and then pay by the ride for the rest. Which honestly would have been the simpler and probably better way to go.



Wouldn't those same locals also not be buying the IAS$$? 

One day of use (on a slow Tuesday, but that also had every blogger on it and tons of people had that free day) is really not a big enough sample.  How many would pay 'only $15' on a Saturday in May rather than wait when the crowds are high? How many bite when something new opens (Tron, Guardians) even though they normally never would?


----------



## MJJME

catnik said:


> For my family of 4, Genie+ will be primarily used in MK and HS and not every day on a multiple day trip. 2ILL$ every day x multiple days add up for sure. But EE and rope dropping the ILL$ rides would decrease that cost significantly. I think as time goes on, people will be able to figure out ways to maximize the efficient use of both Genie+ and ILL$ while minimizing cost. One high end ADR for us is $350-400. I believe I can plan our use of Genie and ILL$ to = that cost, but your situation may well be different


I agree with most of what you said.........i thought this poster made a good point...............

The whole thing seems counter intuitive

So I can save an hour or 2 of waiting in line but I have get up 2 hours earlier than I would at 7am vs my normal wake up time of 9am on vacation, not be able to go when I want in the afternoon because I cannot pick my return time, be on my phone all day and pay $75 for my family of 5?

I’ll give up the time I save standing in line, the money and aggravation and sleep in until 9am and be no worse off.

Where is the value in any of this?


----------



## LSUfan4444

DisneyKidds said:


> Now THAT’S a great way to feel about your vacation!



I agree...it sounds totally miserable. If thats how I felt I would probably make some changes but to each their own.

Good luck.


----------



## Disturbia

KayKayJS said:


> Been watching this closely and keeping an eye on the tip board. We will be trying this on Sunday with our 2 year old. Not gonna lie, kind of excited to not have to wait in a 45 minute line for MMRR with her, last time was terrible. For us with a toddler - I'm willing to pay.


Same for us.  We have an infant, a toddler and a teen.  This June we walked out after standing 45 mins for Pirates and 60 for Jungle cruise. our teen and I came back for our dinner ADR BOG (they didn’t charge us for the rest).  Same thing at HS, completely cancelled Oga’s ADR (booked after tirelessly waiting for park hours dropped and ADRs released).  95 degree Florida heat!

I can tell you from last Nov to this June, the CMs are better trained and seem happier so I’m still hopeful the magic is slowly returning,


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

Disturbia said:


> Is there a new thread on just how Genie, Genie+ and LL work?  Some of us have just a few days to get a hang of the system before arriving.


That’s exactly what’s being discussed in this thread.  Unfortunately without Disney providing all the specific details, we’re relying on the first hand accounts in this thread to learn how it all works.


----------



## DisneyKidds

catnik said:


> For my family of 4, Genie+ will be primarily used in MK and HS and not every day on a multiple day trip. 2ILL$ every day x multiple days add up for sure. But EE and rope dropping the ILL$ rides would decrease that cost significantly. I think as time goes on, people will be able to figure out ways to maximize the efficient use of both Genie+ and ILL$ while minimizing cost. One high end ADR for us is $350-400. I believe I can plan our use of Genie and ILL$ to = that cost, but your situation may well be different


I agree with your observations.  The ironic thing is you and I will be planning and scheming how best NOT to use Disney’s great new tools and still have a good time without having them suck money out of our wallets for something better that used to be free (FP+), rather than figuring out how to use their new tools to enhance our trips.  To me that speaks volumes about Genie’s ILL$….


----------



## LSUfan4444

MJJME said:


> I agree with most of what you said.........i thought this poster made a good point...............
> 
> The whole thing seems counter intuitive
> 
> So I can save an hour or 2 of waiting in line but I have get up 2 hours earlier than I would at 7am, not be able to go when I want in the afternoon because I cannot pick my return time, be on my phone all day and pay $75 for my family of 5?
> 
> I’ll give up the time I save standing in line, the money and aggravation and sleep in until 9am and be no worse off.
> 
> Where is the value in any of this?



Obviously, results vary but 7am isn't two hours earlier than I normally do. It's closer to two hours later than I normally do but I digress. The value (for me) for the 7am is simply picking a plan that allows for morning flexibility via standby and afternoon and evening time savings without me constantly going to my phone.  

The money for me is that I am paying for a convenience.  It's either standby or I can buy a shorter wait. As soon as I lock in the first G+ time I like after lunch I'm riding with that bad boy till I get there and I'll add every two hours throughout the day.


----------



## OhDannyBoy

Disturbia said:


> Is there a new thread on just how Genie, Genie+ and LL work?  Some of us have just a few days to get a hang of the system before arriving.


I'm hoping we get out of crybaby mode soon and get into planning and strategizing mode.

As entertaining as seeing people who have been getting ripped off by Disney for decades cry about a $15 a day pass they have the option of not buying is, I'd like to know how to utilize this thing.


----------



## LSUfan4444

OhDannyBoy said:


> I'm hoping we get out of crybaby mode soon and get into planning and strategizing mode.
> 
> As entertaining as seeing people who have been getting ripped off by Disney for decades cry about a $15 a day pass they have the option of not buying is, I'd like to know how to utilize this thing.


Remember the steps....denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance.

Right now, most of WDW world is trying to figure out how to buy G+ and ILLs to turn it into FP+ (somewhere between step 2 and 3)


----------



## DisneyKidds

LSUfan4444 said:


> I agree...it sounds totally miserable. If thats how I felt I would probably make some changes but to each their own.
> 
> Good luck.


Eh, we still enjoy the place.  Our DD lives in LA now and we’ve been doing DL more.  We have trips planned with family and friends, who aren’t Disney curmudgeons like me….so it’s a good.  Doesn’t mean I can’t weep for Disney and despise the Chapek way though!  I’ll be a’ight.


----------



## catnik

DisneyKidds said:


> I agree with your observations.  The ironic thing is you and I will be planning and scheming how best NOT to use Disney great new tools and still have a good time without having them suck money out of our wallets for something better that used to be free (FP+), rather than figuring out how to use their new tools to enhance our trips.  To me that speaks volumes about Genie’s ILL$….


Yup. We strategized previously to maximize FP and FP+ and it is now the challenge is to strategize Genie+ and ILL$ to maximize our family’s enjoyment at the least additional cost possible. Disney threw down this gauntlet, and I accept the challenge


----------



## DisneyKidds

OhDannyBoy said:


> I'm hoping we get out of crybaby mode soon and get into planning and strategizing mode.
> 
> As entertaining as seeing people who have been getting ripped off by Disney for decades cry about a $15 a day pass they have the option of not buying is, I'd like to know how to utilize this thing.


Touché, we’ll played Sir.  Of course this is the Disney Genie Announcement thread, so all topics G related seem fair game.  There should be a separate Genie Strategy thread., maybe you can be the one to start it!!


----------



## DisneyKidds

catnik said:


> Yup. We strategized previously to maximize FP and FP+ and it is now the challenge is to strategize Genie+ and ILL$ to maximize our family’s enjoyment at the least additional cost possible. Disney threw down this gauntlet, and I accept the challenge


That’s the way to look at it trooper, I’m with you!


----------



## Disturbia

ENJDisneyFan said:


> That’s exactly what’s being discussed in this thread.  Unfortunately without Disney providing all the specific details, we’re relying on the first hand accounts in this thread to learn how it all works.


I just went through 2 pages of no actual Genie+ details; the page keeps crashing


----------



## LSUfan4444

OhDannyBoy said:


> get into planning and strategizing mode.


 All this running in circles has my brain fried but as I center my focus to the afternoons. I know ILLs can be purchased for the park you plan to hop to and at 7 am will only give you times 2pm or later but for G+, can someone remind me what we learned yesterday...

Can you book G+ at any park at 7am (for on site guests) regardless of whether you have a park reservation or not? If so, if you do not hav a park reservation, does it only give you time windows in the afternoon 2pm or later? Lastly, for the stacking route, you can book your second G+ two hours after THAT park opens, correct...regardless of whether you start in that park and have a reservation or not?


----------



## OhDannyBoy

DisneyKidds said:


> Touché, we’ll played Sir.  Of course this is the Disney Genie Announcement thread, so all topics G related seem fair game.  There should be a separate Genie Strategy thread., maybe you can be the one to start it!!


Hey I get it. I vented my frustrations on what I thought this would be too. I'm just personally ready for the next step and am anxious to learn. 

I admittedly don't have near what a lot of you guys do invested in Mickey and pals so it's not hurting me as bad.

I'd start a new thread but I'd imagine in a week or so about 200 of them will exist!!


----------



## DavidNYC

PaladinButters said:


> That's _exactly_ my point. I'm sure Disney didn't tell everyone - make sure you say 'monetize' because people like it much better when you remind them that they already paid for the thing you are saying no to - and would bet that those are the words of the CM and not the company (or the words of the person telling the story, I wasn't there to hear it).


Yeah - I have a hard time imagining a cast member - instructed or not - saying that to a guest in those terms as well as the “we can offer you standby” which makes no sense whatsoever.   There is likely some stuff lost in translation here ….


----------



## Disturbia

LSUfan4444 said:


> All this running in circles has my brain fried but as I center my focus to the afternoons. I know ILLs can be purchased for the park you plan to hop to and at 7 am will only give you times 2pm or later but for G+, can someone remind me what we learned yesterday...
> 
> Can you book G+ at any park at 7am (for on site guests) regardless of whether you have a park reservation or not? If so, if you do not hav a park reservation, does it only give you time windows in the afternoon 2pm or later? Lastly, for the stacking route, you can book your second G+ two hours after THAT park opens, correct...regardless of whether you start in that park and have a reservation or not?


You need to have a park hopper and then genie will show you reservations after 2 pm.  You need park reservations at your first park.  

I’m told Epcot doesn’t need to be your first park to get Remy’s virtual queue (BG) as long as there is availability after 2pm when you park hop (highly unlikely to still have availability, but has happened occasionally; so improved chances of getting a BG if Epcot is first park).  If you want to try at 1 pm for the BG, you need to have Epcot as your first park.


----------



## rmclain73

LSUfan4444 said:


> Totally agree,,,standby is unavoidable unless you prefer to spend your time waiting on a park bench. Either way, if you want to do the most popular rides on G+ you're going to wait. Either in a standby line or waiting for your next G+ attraction.
> 
> How people use the standby lines will be key...you're not going to be able to G+ your way to no waits.




THIS!

Genie will best be used with a strategy of which lines to wait in vs which ones to get LL's.  Its like paper FP all over again minus the running across the park to pull the paper, and of course you are paying for it now.


----------



## snikki

I believe the mods are working on a thread for only planning and strategies. It’ll be a sticky thread. @scrappinginontario mentioned it yesterday.


----------



## LSUfan4444

Disturbia said:


> You need to have a park hopper and then genie will show you reservations after 2 pm


So, if you have hoppers it will only show you G+ and ILLs after 2pm, correct? There would be no need to refresh looking for afternoon times , right?


----------



## rmclain73

LSUfan4444 said:


> So, if you have hoppers it will only show you G+ and ILLs after 2pm, correct? There would be no need to refresh looking for afternoon times , right?



Yes, you can then keep stacking.  Pull one at 7:00am, then 11:00am, then 1:00pm.  You could also buy 2 ILLs.  You could be entering the park with 5 LL's.  At 3:00pm you can grab a 6th.  Put the park you wish to hop to into your day on the app.


----------



## wisblue

DisneyKidds said:


> Touché, we’ll played Sir.  Of course this is the Disney Genie Announcement thread, so all topics G related seem fair game.  There should be a separate Genie Strategy thread., maybe you can be the one to start it!!



There is one being started but it is still in the development stage because until yesterday there was no firm experience with how the whole thing works.

In the meantime posters are using this thread to get information to help plan for upcoming trips, and I think a lot of them would appreciate it if others could stick to things that might help with planning.


----------



## Disturbia

rmclain73 said:


> Yes, you can then keep stacking.  Pull one at 7:00am, then 11:00am, then 1:00pm.  You could also buy 2 ILLs.  You could be entering the park with 5 LL's.  Put the park you wish to hop to into your day.


So you could pull one for after 2 pm (at 7 am) in say Epcot (say MK is am park; hopping to Epcot), but you could pull another at 9 am for your first park, use it and at 9:15 get another and use it like a rolling pass For your first park.  I think that would ensure more rides at MK unless you’re going to standby in the AM.  You could also pay LLiA$ and book SDMT at 12 pm and Remy at Epcot after 2pm on top of the genie+.  These can overlap.

The extra LLIA$ can be booked at 7 am if on-site or at park opening if not (so Remy can’t be booked until 10am if offsite?)


----------



## SCDisneyfanatic

I'm not sure I get the math.  Genie+ at $15 per day x 5 people x 7 days = $525.  So, that leaves $770 to reach the $1295 cost quoted.  Does that mean you spent $770 on ILL$ rides?  I'm not sure of what the complaint about the system is though if you spent all that cash by choice.  Or did I miss something??


----------



## kevind2112

Not sure if this has been covered anywhere. I did read all 254 pages! But I did skim a lot.

My wife and I are staying on property. Our daughters and their SOs are staying off site, but I have their tickets added to my MDE. At 7:00am, would I be able to purchase ROTR passes for all of us, or only my wife and myself?


----------



## mshanson3121

Nm. Arrogant jerks aren't worth the points.


----------



## leeniewdw

cjlong88 said:


> This is exactly what we plan on doing when we visit EPCOT on our first day back. Enjoy F&W and get in a standby line or two with low waits in the morning while and start stacking rides for HS. Take a break at the hotel, then head to the HS in the afternoon. If we purchase both MMRR and RotR we can conceivably have 5 LL's ready to go, which would be awesome. But who knows what will be the most effective way to maximize this until we get more information from those using it throughout the next few weeks.



I like this strategy, but we normally don't go back to the 2nd park until later than 2pm.   If I'm understanding correctly, the G+/LL selections don't give you a way to pick a later time slot.   But we absolutely like our mid-day rest/pool time.  So will have to consider how to make all this work with our typical touring approach.


----------



## snikki

It seems to me that the PM stacking option will probably only work well in DHS. So far it seems that way anyway. Every other park hasn’t had early times for G+ go as quickly.


----------



## KLK622

Sorry if this has been answered, but I looked around and didn't see anything.  If we have hotel reservations at the Waldorf...can we buy our Genie+ and Individual LL selection at park opening or 7 am?  I assume its park opening, but I wanted to confirm.  Also assuming its park opening, if I buy Genie+ for my entire trip will that allow me to make my first selection any earlier than park opening?


----------



## DisneyKidds

wisblue said:


> In the meantime posters are using this thread to get information to help plan for upcoming trips, and I think a lot of them would appreciate it if others could stick to things that might help with planning.


I’ve got trips planned as well and am just as interested in experience and strategy as the next guy, but you can’t remove commentary from this two month old rabbit hole of a Genie thread that we’ve gone down.  While a dedicated use and strategy thread can’t come soon enough, at this time those trying to learn have to go through the same 200 plus page sufferefest the rest of us have!


----------



## LSUfan4444

snikki said:


> It seems to me that the PM stacking option will probably only work well in DHS. So far it seems that way anyway. Every other park hasn’t had early times go as quickly.


Depends on what you're trying to accomplish. You could PM stack pretty well in epcot and not be on your phone all morning


----------



## Disturbia

kevind2112 said:


> Not sure if this has been covered anywhere. I did read all 254 pages! But I did skim a lot.
> 
> My wife and I are staying on property. Our daughters and their SOs are staying off site, but I have their tickets added to my MDE. At 7:00am, would I be able to purchase ROTR passes for all of us, or only my wife and myself?


I believe it’s the ticket type has to be same and linked and then you can book everyone;  you need one form of payment.  Complications are with AP, some people with hoppers some not, different payments etc,


----------



## wisblue

Disturbia said:


> So you could pull one for after 2 pm (at 7 am) in say Epcot (say MK is am park; hopping to Epcot), but you could pull another at 9 am for your first park, use it and at 9:15 get another and use it like a rolling pass For your first park.  I think that would ensure more rides at MK unless you’re going to standby in the AM.  You could also pay LLiA$ and book SDMT at 12 pm and Remy at Epcot after 2pm on top of the genie+.  These can overlap.  The extra LLIA$ can be booked at 7 am if on-site or at park opening if not (so Remy can’t be booked until 10am if offsite?)



If I’m following you, your example is someone with a park reservation at MK who, at 7 AM, selects a G+LL for something at Epcot after 2 PM.

From what I am hearing you could do that as long as you have hopper tickets.

But, I also understand that you would not be able to pull your next one until 11 AM (2 hours after MK opens).

One practical point. At 7 AM there might not be any G+ attractions at Epcot with return times after 2 PM. so, selecting something there might not even be an option. You'd be better off taking something early at MK and using it and then check for availability at Epcot.


----------



## LSUfan4444

leeniewdw said:


> I like this strategy, but we normally don't go back to the 2nd park until later than 2pm.   If I'm understanding correctly, the G+/LL selections don't give you a way to pick a later time slot.   But we absolutely like our mid-day rest/pool time.  So will have to consider how to make all this work with our typical touring approach.


As I am understanding it, if you do not have a park reservation, it will only give you G+ and ILL options after 2pm in those parks. Thats how we're thinking of using it as well.


----------



## snikki

LSUfan4444 said:


> Depends on what you're trying to accomplish. You could PM stack pretty well in epcot and not be on your phone all morning



I’ll have to keep an eye on Epcot G+ times and how far they go out. I was paying more attention to DHS and MK yesterday. I would prefer PM G+ so I’ll be looking at all of this. I can’t wait for the strategy thread to open and hear more real life experiences.


----------



## tikilyn

I don't know if this has been ask and answered. My dh and I have rode ROTR twice, my kids haven't been to disney since it's opened. Can we purchase ill$ for this ride for the kids only? Or will we have to purchase an iLL$ for everyone in our party? Also does ROTR, MMRR operate during early entry? 

We're not planning to pay for Genie+. We are rope droppers, and we'll just head to the headliners first thing in the morning to get our rides in. Then go with the flow the rest of the day using the standby and single rider lines.


----------



## Disturbia

wisblue said:


> If I’m following you, your example is someone with a park reservation at MK who, at 7 AM, selects a G+LL for something at Epcot after 2 PM.
> 
> From what I am hearing you could do that as long as you have hopper tickets.
> 
> But, I also understand that you would not be able to pull your next one until 11 AM (2 hours after MK opens).


Yes.  per Kyle Pallo it wasn’t worth it until noon at MK;

you could also book MK pass at 10 am big Thunder  (at 7 am if available); the. At 9 am book at the park you’re hopping to (2 pm genie+ at say Test track).

Now I’m Confusing myself, is it 8 or 9 when the next pass can be booked


----------



## katyringo

I think right now my HS strategy is I'm willing to pay for individual lightning lane for MMRR and Rise for lunch-ish time... and will make my first Genie+ for SDD.  I will rope drop early entry TT and rocking roller coaster has single rider.   Those are all my must do's.


----------



## TheMick424

Disturbia said:


> I believe it’s the ticket type has to be same and linked and then you can book everyone;  you need one form of payment.  Complications are with AP etc,


I'm so confused by all of this.  So if I have an AP, and my DH, DS and DD have regular tickets, I cannot purchase Genie+ for all of us because our ticket types don't match? or I have to purchase them in separate transactions?


----------



## LSUfan4444

snikki said:


> I’ll have to keep an eye on Epcot G+ times and how far they go out. I was paying more attention to DHS and MK yesterday. I would prefer PM G+ so I’ll be looking at all of this. I can’t wait for the strategy thread to open and hear more real life experiences.


Well, if you're hopping to Epcot you could, at a minimum walk in with two LL's and a G+ but by the time you're walking out of your first park (thinking that 1pm booking) window you can probably grab something else giving you two G+ and two ILLs. Wouldn't be bad to roll in with a text track, Remy, Frozen Ever After and Soarin all for park hopping,


----------



## LSUfan4444

TheMick424 said:


> I'm so confused by all of this.  So if I have an AP, and my DH, DS and DD have regular tickets, I cannot purchase Genie+ for all of us because our ticket types don't match? or I have to purchase them in separate transactions?


APs have to be added the day of
For anyone who has a ticket, it can either be added the day of OR have the ticket converted into a G+ ticket in advance.

My advice to you would be wait until the day of for everyone


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

KLK622 said:


> Sorry if this has been answered, but I looked around and didn't see anything.  If we have hotel reservations at the Waldorf...can we buy our Genie+ and Individual LL selection at park opening or 7 am?  I assume its park opening, but I wanted to confirm.  Also assuming its park opening, if I buy Genie+ for my entire trip will that allow me to make my first selection any earlier than park opening?


For offsite, G+ attractions are selected at 7am and ILL$ are purchased at park opening.  For onsite, both can be done at 7am.



wisblue said:


> If I’m following you, your example is someone with a park reservation at MK who, at 7 AM, selects a G+LL for something at Epcot after 2 PM.
> 
> From what I am hearing you could do that as long as you have hopper tickets.
> 
> But, I also understand that you would not be able to pull your next one until 11 AM (2 hours after MK opens).


But in the example given, the first G+ was used at 9:15am, so you can grab the next one as soon as you tap into the first.



tikilyn said:


> I don't know if this has been ask and answered. My dh and I have rode ROTR twice, my kids haven't been to disney since it's opened. Can we purchase ill$ for this ride for the kids only? Or will we have to purchase an iLL$ for everyone in our party? Also does ROTR, MMRR operate during early entry?
> 
> We're not planning to pay for Genie+. We are rope droppers, and we'll just head to the headliners first thing in the morning to get our rides in. Then go with the flow the rest of the day using the standby and single rider lines.


You are able to select individual members of your party to purchase for.


----------



## snikki

How fast are the ROTR ILL going at 7 am? Would someone have time to get SDD LL and then get ROTR ILL right after?


----------



## MakiraMarlena

Whoever was at the Waldorf,
You can buy Genie+ starting at 12Am on the day you want to use it.
You can make your first Genie+ selection at 7AM.
You can buy ILLS starting at park opening, unless the Waldorf is an affiliated hotel.

today the ILL for ROTR was unavailable (sold out) sometime between 8:45 and 9:30 am.


----------



## Figment1990

I really hope we can get some first hand accounts of people using genie today and some screen shots. This will help us with the strategizing that I do think we all want to do. I personally would like to see some data being generated on when the LLs ”ran out” or return times as of X o’clock, G+ or ILL$. It would help build some planning. Even though the crowd levels are no where near where they will be for my thanksgiving trip it would be helpful to know if SDD is running out of G+ by a particular time For expanse, one poster explained that they had a 11:20 g+ for SDD and therefore it was hard to get more than a few more in the day. I would like to know when the poster booked SDD that it was already 11ish.  

I would also love this info on some of the other rides, like RnRc, smugglers run, etc.  this is particularly important for HS with their current ride situation. 

i can’t help it, I really just want to see some data!

another thing I would like confirmed is whether you can book morning G+ LL for a park which you do not have a reservation or do you have to go through the process of changing your reservation first?


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

snikki said:


> How fast are the ROTR ILL going at 7 am? Would someone have time to get SDD LL and then get ROTR ILL right after?


DFB reported that it sold out around 10am both yesterday and today.


----------



## OhDannyBoy

snikki said:


> How fast are the ROTR ILL going at 7 am? Would someone have time to get SDD LL and then get ROTR ILL right after?


From what i saw messing with the App yesterday, ROTR were available, albeit pretty late in the day, right until about 10 or 11ish.


----------



## LSUfan4444

snikki said:


> How fast are the ROTR ILL going at 7 am? Would someone have time to get SDD LL and then get ROTR ILL right after?


Ran out yesterday and today around or after 9:30 am. Plenty of time.

Star Wars Rise of the Resistance Lightning Lane access selling out early


----------



## LSUfan4444

snikki said:


> How fast are the ROTR ILL going at 7 am? Would someone have time to get SDD LL and then get ROTR ILL right after?


Well, that also begs the question....how long are Remy VQ's around for?


----------



## KLK622

MakiraMarlena said:


> Whoever was at the Waldorf,
> You can buy Genie+ starting at 12Am on the day you want to use it.
> You can make your first Genie+ selection at 7AM.
> You can buy ILLS starting at park opening, unless the Waldorf is an affiliated hotel.
> 
> today the ILL for ROTR was unavailable (sold out) sometime between 8:45 and 9:30 am.



So essentially it sold out before park opening?  I honestly hadn't planned on that.  I guess if it looks like it will continue to sell out leading up to our trip we will just rope drop since we do get the half hour early entry.  Or get in line at the end of the night.


----------



## SCDisneyfanatic

Disturbia said:


> Yes.  per Kyle Pallo it wasn’t worth it until noon at MK;
> 
> you could also book MK pass at 10 am big Thunder  (at 7 am if available); the. At 9 am book at the park you’re hopping to (2 pm genie+ at say Test track).
> 
> Now I’m Confusing myself, is it 8 or 9 when the next pass can be booked


I spoke this morning with a CM and he said you can purchase your next Genie+ at 120 minutes.  His example: at 0703 I book Jungle Cruise...at 0903 I can book Peter Pan's Flight...let's say that takes 2 minutes so actually 0905...then at 1105 I can secure the next one.

That being said, I read earlier from a poster that they did 10 Genie+ in one day at MK (actually by 1700).  They made it sound like once the park is open, each new Genie+ is based on you swiping into the current selection and then being able to secure the next one.  If that's the case, I can see some big advantages at MK in our case with 2 little ones.


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

LSUfan4444 said:


> Well, that also begs the question....how long are Remy VQ's around for?


I didn't see any reports of it selling out.


----------



## MakiraMarlena

Park opened at 9, ROTR sold out by 9:30, so if you have to wait until park opening you had better do that first.

Remy did not sell out, and the 1 PM VQ was open until after 3.


----------



## Disturbia

So is the next genie+ booking from the start of your booked Genie+ pass?  I thought I saw Kyle or Molly say they weren‘t eligible to book another until 11 am when they had a 1 pm?


----------



## SCDisneyfanatic

Disturbia said:


> Yes.  per Kyle Pallo it wasn’t worth it until noon at MK;
> 
> you could also book MK pass at 10 am big Thunder  (at 7 am if available); the. At 9 am book at the park you’re hopping to (2 pm genie+ at say Test track).
> 
> Now I’m Confusing myself, is it 8 or 9 when the next pass can be booked


I spoke this morning with a CM and he said you can purchase your next Genie+ at 120 minutes.  His example: at 0703 I book Jungle Cruise...at 0903 I can book Peter Pan's Flight...let's say that takes 2 minutes so actually 0905...then at 1105 I can secure the next one.

That being said, I read earlier from a poster that they did 10 Genie+ in one day at MK (actually by 1700).  They made it sound like once the park is open, each new Genie+ is based on you swiping into the current selection and then being able to secure the next one.  If that's the case, I can see some big advantages at MK in our case with 2 little ones.


----------



## LSUfan4444

MakiraMarlena said:


> Park opened at 9, it sold out by 9:30, so if you have to wait until park opening you had better do that first.
> 
> Remy did not sell out, and the 1 PM VQ was open until after 3.


What about the morning VQ's...how quick do they go?

Seconds? Minutes? Enough time to refill my coffee cup?


----------



## tikilyn

ENJDisneyFan said:


> For offsite, G+ attractions are selected at 7am and ILL$ are purchased at park opening.  For onsite, both can be done at 7am.
> 
> 
> But in the example given, the first G+ was used at 9:15am, so you can grab the next one as soon as you tap into the first.
> 
> 
> You are able to select individual members of your party to purchase for.


Thank you!


----------



## snikki

Disturbia said:


> So is the next genie+ booking from the start of your booked Genie+ pass?  I thought I saw Kyle or Molly say they weren‘t eligible to book another until 11 am when they had a 1 pm?



Every report I’ve read is saying the same as Kyle and Molly. The 120 minutes starts at park opening.


----------



## LSUfan4444

Disturbia said:


> So is the next genie+ booking from the start of your booked Genie+ pass?  I thought I saw Kyle or Molly say they weren‘t eligible to book another until 11 am when they had a 1 pm?


It begins either two hours after park opening, two hours after the last G+ reservation that you made after park opening (meaning 1 pm if you made one at 11 am for a 9am opening) OR once you've scanned in the second time for your current G+ reservation


----------



## MainMom

Jrb1979 said:


> IMO from reading the comments, I think the issue people have with Genie+ is not necessarily the cost but that they took away the spreadsheet planning that most loved. I would bet even if Genie+ was free most would hate it.
> 
> 
> Personally I love the it. I hated all the planning and booking involved. My family is a go with the flow type.


For me I’m trying to decide if I will get my money’s worth with genie+. I have never before looked at anything in Disney that way. Right now, for my family and how we tour, I don’t see the worth. Maybe that will change as time goes on.


----------



## MakiraMarlena

Here's what i got from booking Genie selections:

After you tap in for one Genie booking, you can make another. If you skip it and don't tap in, you wait until the booking expires.
If you book one that starts more than 2 hours after park opening, then you can make another 2 hours after park opening. (If the park opens at 9, you go on at 7 and book Slinky Dog for 5:30, then you can make an additional booking at 11. Apparently you can keep making and using additional bookings until 3:30, which is 2 hours from your Slinky Dog booking. Some of this is not clear yet.)


----------



## cindyfan

M SH said:


> Sorry I don’t really mean to pick on you. I’m reading this post and just makes me think on where we were with FP+ where one could do all of this for no extra charge. But now people are planning on spending on g+ and ias per day and calling it awesome. SMH


I am sitting here saying the same thing..... What is awesome about it??!  depending on the group size.... this person has just spent a *significant amount *of *additional money*!!!!  Money that should be spent on the next day's meals!


----------



## cindyfan

Sorry if I missed it in the long thread.....
If you make a LL with G+ and decide not to ride it.... can you cancel and book something else?


----------



## MainMom

Bibbobboo2u said:


> We used G+ at HWS yesterday, so here are a few thoughts about it.  (1)We didn’t like the inflexibility of it.  While you can see next available time for every LL ride in your park, you can’t modify your choice after selecting.  You have to cancel and then choose what is currently offered.   (2)We were on our phones much more than usual and had to start recharging early afternoon.  We set alarms as reminders for when we could pull next LL, and while I think app showed a time for when you could make next selection, we didn’t want to miss it.  For those who disliked being on phones to get additional FPs after first 3, you are really not going to like G+ because you now have to do this for every ride. (3) Just like FP, LL rides can run out, so you have to decide if you would rather book favorite first or risk pulling later so you can get closer to desired time if you have one. Ex - pull SDD first (which we did) or wait to try to get evening return time that we preferred.  We didn’t want to take that chance. (4) We were unable to pull our second LL ride after tapping into SDD, as we were supposed to be able to do.  It took about 35 minutes and 4 cast members to get this resolved, which was happening during our lunch pick up time.  I stayed to resolve while DH got food.  They tried several different things but finally had to take my magic band to the second SDD tap point and rescan it to clear the ride off my G+.  The reason this was a G+ issue is that while this was happening, our next return window for our next ride jumped back by over an hour, which then pushed our whole day back if that makes sense.  Guest services was great and gave us a recovery LL pass for the next ride we had wanted that we could use at any time and also gave us another LL pass to a different ride but for the next available  slot she could find.  It was just a lot to deal with.  (My scan at second SDD had turned blue rather than green, while DH was green.  I said to CM “shouldn’t that be green”, and she replied “It’s fine - come in through.”  It wasn’t fine!) And (5) We were able to pull 4 LL rides, not counting the “pixie dust” extra ride we were given.  So in conclusion, we didn’t like G+.


What 4 rides were you able to get? I’m really curious what rides people are using LL for specifically. Thanks.


----------



## MakiraMarlena

No cancellations apparently. You would have to skip the ride and wait for the window to expire in order to make another G+ selection.


----------



## scrappinginontario

tikilyn said:


> I don't know if this has been ask and answered. My dh and I have rode ROTR twice, my kids haven't been to disney since it's opened. Can we purchase ill$ for this ride for the kids only? Or will we have to purchase an iLL$ for everyone in our party? Also does ROTR, MMRR operate during early entry?
> 
> We're not planning to pay for Genie+. We are rope droppers, and we'll just head to the headliners first thing in the morning to get our rides in. Then go with the flow the rest of the day using the standby and single rider lines.


If your kids are old enough to stand in line and ride the attraction alone then you can just purchase the attraction for them only.


----------



## LSUfan4444

MakiraMarlena said:


> No cancellations apparently. You would have to skip the ride and wait for the window to expire in order to make another G+ selection.


That is not my understanding but it wasn't very clear yesterday. Because I read more than one report of someone doing it, it leads me to think it can be done (people maybe just didnt know they could or how to) rather than it being a glitch


----------



## jimmymc

SCDisneyfanatic said:


> I spoke this morning with a CM and he said you can purchase your next Genie+ at 120 minutes.  His example: at 0703 I book Jungle Cruise...at 0903 I can book Peter Pan's Flight...let's say that takes 2 minutes so actually 0905...then at 1105 I can secure the next one.
> 
> That being said, I read earlier from a poster that they did 10 Genie+ in one day at MK (actually by 1700).  They made it sound like once the park is open, each new Genie+ is based on you swiping into the current selection and then being able to secure the next one.  If that's the case, I can see some big advantages at MK in our case with 2 little ones.



I believe you can reserve your next time when you use your current one or at 2 hours, whichever comes first. A Youtuber I watch did every ride in Magic Kingdom using Genie+ and only had one long wait they couldn't get a time for.


----------



## tikilyn

scrappinginontario said:


> If your kids are old enough to stand in line and ride the attraction alone then you can just purchase the attraction for them only.


 Thank you! Yes they are young adults so standing in line alone wont be a problem. LOL


----------



## MainMom

eva said:


> We are currently here at WDW. Yesterday we decided to test out Genie+ and two paid Lightening Lane Passes. We went to HS first, then hopped at 4pm to EPCOT. We decided it just isn’t worth the extra money and time it takes to do this. Right at 7am I added Genie+ and chose my first ride, SDD. You can’t choose another ride until 2 hours after the park opens. So at 11am we chose RNR. Then we couldn’t add another ride till 1pm. By that time everything we wanted to ride no longer had slots for Genie+. Slots did seem to open later in the evening, but we were already at EPCOT by then. We did do paid LL for ROTR and Ratatouille. ROTR was worth it, not Ratatouille. Now we are seasoned visitors (DVC since 1997), so we don’t want to ride some of the smaller attractions. And unfortunately that was all that was left by early afternoon. The price for all this was $39 plus tax per person. Interesting test, but not for us.


And this is exactly what my problem is with the whole thing.  Thank you for the report.


----------



## scrappinginontario

KLK622 said:


> So essentially it sold out before park opening?  I honestly hadn't planned on that.  I guess if it looks like it will continue to sell out leading up to our trip we will just rope drop since we do get the half hour early entry.  Or get in line at the end of the night.


It was reported yesterday that additional ILL$ times for ILL$ rides were added at park opening when they became available for offsite guests to purchase.


----------



## snikki

I read you can cancel LL it’s just difficult to find where to cancel them and i forget how they said it can be done. I believe I saw it on IG but can’t remember where exactly.


----------



## CWTC

cindyfan said:


> Sorry if I missed it in the long thread.....
> If you make a LL with G+ and decide not to ride it.... can you cancel and book something else?


Yes you can cancel and rebook but not if the window has opened. This is the LL as part of G+ not ILL$.

edited:  just looked at our genie.  Tap on your LL and then follow prompts to cancel.


----------



## LSUfan4444

Now ILLs cannot be cancelled, refunded or modified but even the cancel rebook option on G+ is risky


----------



## MainMom

mshanson3121 said:


> Except before you could do this in the comfort of your home (for your first 3 at least), not while standing in the park wasting time.
> 
> Also, the people who got 12 LL were getting primarily the "little" rides, not the bigger ones. And I'm also going to guess they were bloggers that didn't have kids with them, and didn't mind having to zig zag all over the park chasing rides.


Exactly! Someone posted about one guy getting 14 LL. While he did ride Splash and Pirates most of his rides were like tea cups, Pooh and Ariel.


----------



## LSUfan4444

MainMom said:


> Exactly! Someone posted about one guy getting 14 LL. While he did ride Splash and Pirates most of his rides were like tea cups, Pooh and Ariel.


We get it...you don't like it. I think you've made that abundantly clear.


----------



## jimim

Disturbia said:


> Someone stacked 2 LLIA$ and first Genie+ in the same 1.5 hours.  They are separate and the LLIA$ can overlap.


so it's only the genie+ selections that have to be 2 hrs apart? not the ILL$?


----------



## OhDannyBoy

it's a good thing G+ is optional.


----------



## LSUfan4444

jimim said:


> so it's only the genie+ selections that have to be 2 hrs apart? not the ILL$?


Correct. In fact, you can actually have both ILLs and a G+ all overlap in the same time frame


----------



## scrappinginontario

jimim said:


> so it's only the genie+ selections that have to be 2 hrs apart? not the ILL$?


yes


----------



## Jonfw2

LSUfan4444 said:


> Correct. In fact, you can actually have both ILLs and a G+ all overlap in the same time frame


AND you can enter the Remy virtual queue.


----------



## leeniewdw

LSUfan4444 said:


> As I am understanding it, if you do not have a park reservation, it will only give you G+ and ILL options after 2pm in those parks. Thats how we're thinking of using it as well.



I worded my post poorly.  I mean that we're much more likely to return around 4pm than 2pm.  So if I'm park hopping and opting to use my LL for the 2nd park, getting a LL at 2pm or 3pm will alter my normal day of plans.  We usually rope drop then either eat lunch in the park or back at the hotel.  a quick nap (or at least off our feet), then a brief pool visit.  We're going in FEB, so it's possible that we'd skip the pool part and 2pm would work.  

I guess in that scenario I could use LL for my morning park, then check the schedules for then 2nd park when my next reservation slot opens.


----------



## hhisc16

Makes you wonder how much Disney is making off this per day...


----------



## JakeAZ

hhisc16 said:


> Makes you wonder how much Disney is making off this per day...


No need to wonder.  It's bags of money.


----------



## ZellyB

I actually really enjoy Pooh and on busy days the line can be 45 minutes+  I'd be happy if G+ lets me skip that line.   

In general I'm cautiously optimistic but with low crowds right now it's not a very good test.  I'm excited to learn new strategies for using G+.  I still think it's mostly likely beneficial at MK and DHS primarily, but time will tell.  I do feel badly for those that find this won't fit their touring strategy.  I'm not happy about having to pay for it, but that ship has sailed so time to move on to strategies.  I liked legacy FP and I liked MaxPass and G+ seems a combination of the two, but sadly with an additional cost.  We've always been early risers and rope drop people, so this works well for us.  I can see using Early Entry/rope drop and G+ leading to a successful park day for the most part.  Again, I'll be very curious to see G+ ride availability during busier park days before making any final decisions about when/where to utilize it.


----------



## Disturbia

This is a really good summary with multiple strategies

https://www.disneyfoodblog.com/2021...-with-genie-and-pay-per-ride-in-disney-world/


----------



## Disturbia

jimim said:


> so it's only the genie+ selections that have to be 2 hrs apart? not the ILL$?


The 2 hours apart is booking time before redemption of a pass not the ride time frame

you can book 9:00 am big thunder genie+ at 7 am (if available), ride it in 10 mins and book another pass for 9:10 am-10:10 am


----------



## hhisc16

JakeAZ said:


> No need to wonder.  It's bags of money.


Genie must be trying to grant Disney's three wishes of more money for parks, more money for executives, and more money for shareholders


----------



## itf

hhisc16 said:


> Makes you wonder how much Disney is making off this per day...



Much like in Vegas, the mouse always wins...


----------



## OhDannyBoy

hhisc16 said:


> Makes you wonder how much Disney is making off this per day...


My lazy Google search said Disney full capacity is 90,000ish.

Just for numbers sake lets say they were at 50% capacity. So 45,000ish people. Don't know if that's accurate.

And for number sake again lets say half of those bought just G+ so no individual rides. 22,500. again, no idea if that's accurate. 

So 45,000 / 2 = 22,500
x $15 = $337,000 in terrible math that's likely wrong.


----------



## Disturbia

snikki said:


> I read you can cancel LL it’s just difficult to find where to cancel them and i forget how they said it can be done. I believe I saw it on IG but can’t remember where exactly.


You can only cancel LL booked with genie+ (your rolling pass, no modifications): not the fixed LLiA$ rides


----------



## hhisc16

OhDannyBoy said:


> My lazy Google search said Disney full capacity is 90kish.
> 
> Just for numbers sake lets say they were at 50% capacity. So 45k people. (I'd guess higher than that)
> 
> And for number sake again lets say half of those bought just G+ so no individual rides. 22,500.
> 
> So 45,000 / 2 = 22,500
> x $15 = $337,000 in terrible math that's likely wrong.


And that is just one Disney park!


----------



## Violetspider

LSUfan4444 said:


> What about the morning VQ's...how quick do they go?
> 
> Seconds? Minutes? Enough time to refill my coffee cup?


I didn't see anyone specifically answer your question. The answer is seconds for the 7:00AM BG drop. If you don't hit Join right at 7:00:00AM, you are not likely to get a BG. The 1PM drop has been a different story and has had availability for hours on some days (although that was pre ILL$, I'm not sure what happened yesterday). So you have to prioritize for EPCOT when it comes to Remy, Frozen ILL$ and your first G+. What's the must do for you? Go for that first.


----------



## Disturbia

SCDisneyfanatic said:


> I spoke this morning with a CM and he said you can purchase your next Genie+ at 120 minutes.  His example: at 0703 I book Jungle Cruise...at 0903 I can book Peter Pan's Flight...let's say that takes 2 minutes so actually 0905...then at 1105 I can secure the next one.
> 
> That being said, I read earlier from a poster that they did 10 Genie+ in one day at MK (actually by 1700).  They made it sound like once the park is open, each new Genie+ is based on you swiping into the current selection and then being able to secure the next one.  If that's the case, I can see some big advantages at MK in our case with 2 little ones.


you can book a 9:10 am when you finish riding your first 9 am genie+ By 9:09 selection.  Kylle Palio’s video helps


----------



## pineapplepalms

MakiraMarlena said:


> Here's what i got from booking Genie selections:
> 
> After you tap in for one Genie booking, you can make another. If you skip it and don't tap in, you wait until the booking expires.
> If you book one that starts more than 2 hours after park opening, then you can make another 2 hours after park opening. (If the park opens at 9, you go on at 7 and book Slinky Dog for 5:30, then you can make an additional booking at 11. Apparently you can keep making and using additional bookings until 3:30, which is 2 hours from your Slinky Dog booking. Some of this is not clear yet.)



 From what I heard the 2 hours is based on booking time, not redemption time, so once the 2 hours has expired or you’ve redeemed your preciously booked one (whichever comes first), you can book your next one. This means you can potentially stack a bunch that even have overlapping times. Looking forward to seeing more in person reports of it working this way.


----------



## OhDannyBoy

Disturbia said:


> you can book a 9:10 am when you finish riding your first 9 am genie+ selection.  Kylle Palio’s video helps


Just for clarity, you mean once you check in for the ride right? Not like after you exit it? 

I ask because if there is still a minimal wait in the LL, I'd like to use that time to start hunting my next.


----------



## Marionnette

snikki said:


> I’ll have to keep an eye on Epcot G+ times and how far they go out. I was paying more attention to DHS and MK yesterday. I would prefer PM G+ so I’ll be looking at all of this. I can’t wait for the strategy thread to open and hear more real life experiences.


At 11:52 AM, I'm seeing a G+ return time of 4:25 PM at TT. All others are almost immediate G+ reservations. On refresh, TT return time changed to 2:30. Return times just seem to randomly populate.


----------



## Friendlyadvice2

OhDannyBoy said:


> Just for clarity, you mean once you check in for the ride right? Not like after you exit it?
> 
> I ask because if there is still a minimal wait in the LL, I'd like to use that time to start hunting my next.


Yes, once you check in.


----------



## Violetspider

OhDannyBoy said:


> Just for clarity, you mean once you check in for the ride right? Not like after you exit it?
> 
> I ask because if there is still a minimal wait in the LL, I'd like to use that time to start hunting my next.


Yes, but I think you have to at least wait until after the second touch point if there is one.


----------



## OhDannyBoy

Here's something I haven't seen a lot of clarity on.

If I book a G+ LL for say 2PM, what's the latest I can check in? Is it actually 2PM I need to be there or a window like it was with FP+? How large a window? 60 minutes?

EDIT: I watched the above video and was answered. It looks like you have an hour window.


----------



## LSUfan4444

leeniewdw said:


> I worded my post poorly.  I mean that we're much more likely to return around 4pm than 2pm.  So if I'm park hopping and opting to use my LL for the 2nd park, getting a LL at 2pm or 3pm will alter my normal day of plans.  We usually rope drop then either eat lunch in the park or back at the hotel.  a quick nap (or at least off our feet), then a brief pool visit.  We're going in FEB, so it's possible that we'd skip the pool part and 2pm would work.
> 
> I guess in that scenario I could use LL for my morning park, then check the schedules for then 2nd park when my next reservation slot opens.


The difference here would be if your first G+ was in your morning park you have to likely wait hours for most G+ attractions to find a 4pm window. If your first G+ reservation is in your second park, you may only have to wait minutes.


----------



## LSUfan4444

Violetspider said:


> I didn't see anyone specifically answer your question. The answer is seconds for the 7:00AM BG drop. If you don't hit Join right at 7:00:00AM, you are not likely to get a BG. The 1PM drop has been a different story and has had availability for hours on some days (although that was pre ILL$, I'm not sure what happened yesterday). So you have to prioritize for EPCOT when it comes to Remy, Frozen ILL$ and your first G+. What's the must do for you? Go for that first.


Thanks...Im wondering if my wife and I can both sign into my MDX from separate devices, she can start booking G+ and ILLs and I can try to snag a Remy BG


----------



## Marionnette

Figment1990 said:


> I really hope we can get some first hand accounts of people using genie today and some screen shots. This will help us with the strategizing that I do think we all want to do. I personally would like to see some data being generated on when the LLs ”ran out” or return times as of X o’clock, G+ or ILL$. It would help build some planning. Even though the crowd levels are no where near where they will be for my thanksgiving trip it would be helpful to know if SDD is running out of G+ by a particular time For expanse, one poster explained that they had a 11:20 g+ for SDD and therefore it was hard to get more than a few more in the day. I would like to know when the poster booked SDD that it was already 11ish.
> 
> I would also love this info on some of the other rides, like RnRc, smugglers run, etc.  this is particularly important for HS with their current ride situation.
> 
> i can’t help it, I really just want to see some data!
> 
> another thing I would like confirmed is whether you can book morning G+ LL for a park which you do not have a reservation or do you have to go through the process of changing your reservation first?


I think that the best source of data points this early on is going to be Touring Plans. They have multiple testers in the parks trying various scenarios and reporting their results. TP is continuing to monitor posted standby waits vs actual waits.

 I do know from yesterday's vlog that TP reported that if you try to book a G+ or IA$ for a park where you do not have a reservation, you will only see availability for after 2:00 PM. You can still book the G+ or IA$ but the return times will not be before 2 PM.


----------



## Disturbia

Marionnette said:


> At 11:52 AM, I'm seeing a G+ return time of 4:25 PM at TT. All others are almost immediate G+ reservations. On refresh, TT return time changed to 2:30. Return times just seem to randomly populate.


Genie will try to disperse crowds so keep refreshing and not book it until you have an acceptable time


----------



## CWTC

Violetspider said:


> Yes, but I think you have to at least wait until after the second touch point if there is one.


Our experience yesterday was the second touch point.


----------



## OhDannyBoy

CWTC said:


> Our experience yesterday was the second touch point.


Awesome!! Little details like this are super helpful!!


----------



## DisneyKidds

hhisc16 said:


> Genie must be trying to grant Disney's three wishes of more money for parks, more money for executives, and more money for shareholders


You are assuming any of that money will put back into the parks.  You know what happens when you assume!


----------



## PaladinButters

OhDannyBoy said:


> My lazy Google search said Disney full capacity is 90,000ish.
> 
> Just for numbers sake lets say they were at 50% capacity. So 45,000ish people. Don't know if that's accurate.
> 
> And for number sake again lets say half of those bought just G+ so no individual rides. 22,500. again, no idea if that's accurate.
> 
> So 45,000 / 2 = 22,500
> x $15 = $337,000 in terrible math that's likely wrong.



Now do all the gates and stretch it across the year!


----------



## OhDannyBoy

PaladinButters said:


> Now do all the gates and stretch it across the year!


LOL...no....LOL


----------



## Disturbia

can someone clarify park hoppers and the 120 min rule if MK/Epcot pm; Epcot (opens at 10 am/MK pm) senerio

https://allears.net/2021/10/19/the-confusing-120-minute-disney-genie-rule-you-need-to-know/


----------



## Monk6552

Okay, after reading 40+ pages of replies I think this is true, but if someone could confirm:

If I stay onsite, at 7 am I could buy 2 ILL$ plus a regular G+ LL at the same time. Let's say I did MK and booked Jungle cruise for 9:45 AM. As soon as I'm off that ride at let's say 10 am, I could book another G+ LL, even though it hasn't been 120 minutes after park opening? In which case, I could potentially stack at least the ILL$ and a G+?


----------



## snikki

Monk6552 said:


> Okay, after reading 40+ pages of replies I think this is true, but if someone could confirm:
> 
> If I stay onsite, at 7 am I could buy 2 ILL$ plus a regular G+ LL at the same time. Let's say I did MK and booked Jungle cruise for 9:45 AM. As soon as I'm off that ride at let's say 10 am, I could book another G+ LL, even though it hasn't been 120 minutes after park opening?



Hou can book another LL as soon as you check into JC.


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

SCDisneyfanatic said:


> I'm not sure I get the math.  Genie+ at $15 per day x 5 people x 7 days = $525.  So, that leaves $770 to reach the $1295 cost quoted.  Does that mean you spent $770 on ILL$ rides?  I'm not sure of what the complaint about the system is though if you spent all that cash by choice.  Or did I miss something??


Genie is actually $16 per day with tax.


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

ENJDisneyFan said:


> DFB reported that it sold out around 10am both yesterday and today.


According to touringplans, yesterday ended up being a crowd level 2 day overall.  MK 3, Epcot 2, HS 3, and AK 1.  On a crowd level 5 or higher day?  I bet these all sell out in minutes.  On a crowd level 8 or higher day?  Seconds.


----------



## Elmo007

I apologize if this was covered somewhere else and I missed it.

Suppose you are going to only 1 park for the day. Assume that at 10am you look for a LL entry (unpaid) for an attraction and the next available entry is 5 or 6pm. Does that mean that if you select that attraction, you are unable to select any other LL entries for your entire day until you do that attraction? I have not been down since pre-pandemic but I recall you could get a second attraction when the first was done or after 2 hours. Has that been eliminated?

Thanks.


----------



## Disturbia

It would be so much easier to understand if Lightening Lane was not used to refer to Genie+ reservations btw and was just used for ILLA$


----------



## mshanson3121

Monk6552 said:


> Okay, after reading 40+ pages of replies I think this is true, but if someone could confirm:
> 
> If I stay onsite, at 7 am I could buy 2 ILL$ plus a regular G+ LL at the same time. Let's say I did MK and booked Jungle cruise for 9:45 AM. As soon as I'm off that ride at let's say 10 am, I could book another G+ LL, even though it hasn't been 120 minutes after park opening? In which case, I could potentially stack at least the ILL$ and a G+?



Yes. The 120 minute GP+  rule applies if your first ride is after 2 hours post opening. So if you booked a ride for 11:30 on a day when the park opens at 9;00, you can't book another ride until 11:00.


----------



## Disturbia

Monk6552 said:


> Okay, after reading 40+ pages of replies I think this is true, but if someone could confirm:
> 
> If I stay onsite, at 7 am I could buy 2 ILL$ plus a regular G+ LL at the same time. Let's say I did MK and booked Jungle cruise for 9:45 AM. As soon as I'm off that ride at let's say 10 am, I could book another G+ LL, even though it hasn't been 120 minutes after park opening? In which case, I could potentially stack at least the ILL$ and a G+?


You can book another after you scanned at the second turnstile (usually closer to ride boarding area)


----------



## Brewerfan101

Sorry, I suspect this has been asked and answered; 
if I have a Return time of 9:30 - 10:30 for Attraction A, I Tap in at 9:40, can I now make a LL selection for Attraction B?  
Is it possible Attraction B Return Time could be less than 120 Minutes from my 9:40 Tap In?  i.e. next available for Attraction B is 10:10 - 11:10?
I guess I'm not clear on the 120 minute "rule".  Thanks


----------



## Disturbia

Per allears:

However, if your reservation is for two hours or more after the park opens, you will not be eligible to make another Genie+ selection until 120 minutes after the park’s opening

so Epcot/MK pm park hopping, you can’t book Test track until 12 pm (2 hours after Epcot’s 10 am opening) if you booked Splash/big thunder/monsters at 2 pm; by 12 pm Test track would probably be pushed into 3 pm+


----------



## Marionnette

Disturbia said:


> It would be so much easier to understand if Lightening Lane was not used to refer to Genie+ reservations btw and was just used for ILLA$


According to the pinned thread, which is currently locked , the acronyms are G+ for Genie+ and ILL$ for Individual Lightning Lane Selection. It would make discussions so much easier to understand if we were to all stick to those abbreviations and use LL to refer to the queue for both. 

Really Disney, did you have to make a convoluted system more confusing by referring to both the return queue and the pay-to-play reservations as Lightning Lanes?


----------



## scrappinginontario

Elmo007 said:


> I apologize if this was covered somewhere else and I missed it.
> 
> Suppose you are going to only 1 park for the day. Assume that at 10am you look for a LL entry (unpaid) for an attraction and the next available entry is 5 or 6pm. Does that mean that if you select that attraction, you are unable to select any other LL entries for your entire day until you do that attraction? I have not been down since pre-pandemic but I recall you could get a second attraction when the first was done or after 2 hours. Has that been eliminated?
> 
> Thanks.


Lost of great information here.  Also, someone will answer your question if you're unable to find the answer in this thread.  People have been very helpful sharing their insight and experiences.


----------



## Disturbia

Brewerfan101 said:


> Sorry, I suspect this has been asked and answered;
> if I have a Return time of 9:30 - 10:30 for Attraction A, I Tap in at 9:40, can I now make a LL selection for Attraction B?
> Is it possible Attraction B Return Time could be less than 120 Minutes from my 9:40 Tap In?  i.e. next available for Attraction B is 10:10 - 11:10?
> I guess I'm not clear on the 120 minute "rule".  Thanks


Yes.  You can make your next selection (depending on availability) when you scan at the second turnstile (usually near boarding), so if you tapped at 9:39 am on the second turnstile  you can make your next selection right away, so 9:40-10:40 is possbile.


----------



## cfw213

cindyfan said:


> I am sitting here saying the same thing..... What is awesome about it??!  depending on the group size.... this person has just spent a *significant amount *of *additional money*!!!!  Money that should be spent on the next day's meals!


This really depends on how you tour though. We struggled in the past few trips to get more FP+ after we used our first 3 - we typically would rope drop some rides but under FP+, by 10am even things like the haunted mansion would have a 40 min SB wait and by the time we used our first 3 FP+ in the afternoon, all that was left were scraps.

it wasn’t until we learned the refresh method in our last trip that we were able to take better advantage but I absolutely hate constantly refreshing my phone when I’m on vacation with my kids.

the way genie+ is playing out, this is going to fit our touring style way better. We won’t use genie, just the plus portion so I don’t think I will be as obsessively tied to my phone.

when I’m on vacation time and being present with my kids is worth the additional cost. I’m excited with what I’ve seen so far. I preferred paper fast pass to FP+, and this to me is basically paper FP without the walking back and forth. If I tell myself I’m spending $60 a day to avoid crisscrossing then park 50x, I can justify it to myself!


----------



## MomEadon

Elmo007 said:


> I apologize if this was covered somewhere else and I missed it.
> 
> Suppose you are going to only 1 park for the day. Assume that at 10am you look for a LL entry (unpaid) for an attraction and the next available entry is 5 or 6pm. Does that mean that if you select that attraction, you are unable to select any other LL entries for your entire day until you do that attraction? I have not been down since pre-pandemic but I recall you could get a second attraction when the first was done or after 2 hours. Has that been eliminated?
> 
> Thanks.



I am new to the game and haven’t even been following along since August like everyone else but from my understanding of everything I’ve read since yesterday you can make your selection for evening and after two hours have passed since you made that selection you can make another selection… so you do not have to wait until you ride the evening selection


----------



## cfw213

Brewerfan101 said:


> Sorry, I suspect this has been asked and answered;
> if I have a Return time of 9:30 - 10:30 for Attraction A, I Tap in at 9:40, can I now make a LL selection for Attraction B?
> Is it possible Attraction B Return Time could be less than 120 Minutes from my 9:40 Tap In?  i.e. next available for Attraction B is 10:10 - 11:10?
> I guess I'm not clear on the 120 minute "rule".  Thanks


Yes and yes, you have it correct.
The 120 min rule would kick in if attraction b had a return time of 5pm. You could then pull attraction C at 11:40am (2 hours after pulling attraction B)


----------



## MJJME

snikki said:


> I’ll have to keep an eye on Epcot G+ times and how far they go out. I was paying more attention to DHS and MK yesterday. I would prefer PM G+ so I’ll be looking at all of this. I can’t wait for the strategy thread to open and hear more real life experiences.


OR WDW could just allow you to pick your return times?

Crazy idea, i know


----------



## jimim

Disturbia said:


> This is a really good summary with multiple strategies
> 
> https://www.disneyfoodblog.com/2021...-with-genie-and-pay-per-ride-in-disney-world/


see this is why i bought a boat instead of going to disney this year and next.  I'm just at the point in my life where I don't want to think this much about something. Especially a trip.  I have to me on my toes all day at work and with my kids at home.  I just want to be able to just shut off when I'm away at least.  lol


----------



## igrsod

First off, I want to thank all of you for posting the info from your experiences.  That is great information for those of us who have upcoming trips and are planning.  
I am a seasoned Disney vacationer.  I love/lived for the planning process.  I even would plan trips for family and friends for free..... it's a hobby.  But having read pages and pages about this new system, I am confused and frustrated.  I updated my app, tried to get things set up for future trips.. only to find out that as an AP holder, everyone else in my group and I can't plan Genie + or ILL$ together.  What a hassle.  The app is clunky and confusing.  I don't think I will use it at all when we are there on our next trip.  We have decided that we won't be forking out any $ for this new service.  It just doesn't seem worth it in time, money and satisfaction.  I don't want to be tied to my phone all day.  I don't want to be chasing rides across the parks.  I don't want to be worried about maximizing my money's worth from Genie +.  
I am happy for those that see this as a benefit for them and the way that they do the parks, but for me and our group of friends and family, this is not an upgrade at all.  I would happily pay for something that was going to enhance my vacation... and have done so in the form of many parties, tours and experiences.  This just isn't going to be one of them. 
My next research is to really see how stand by lines are truly effected by all of this once the initial frenzy dies down.  We generally don't mind waiting in line for the things we like to do.  We use the time to play heads up, meet new people, chat about life, plan our meals for the day etc.


----------



## wisblue

Here’s a puzzler.

I had a chat exchange with a CM today mainly to address my questions about our party with members with 2 different ticket types (annual pass and regular daily tickets). I’ll address what I was told there separately, maybe in a separate   thread.

But I also asked about making G+LL reservations in a second park. I used the specific example: If we have hopper tickets and park reservations at MK, can we make a G+LL reservation at Epcot as long as our selection window is open   
and the return time is after 2 PM.

The response I got was that we could not even select anything at a second park until 2 PM. The CM cited the following language from their official information: “At 2 PM ET- Guests with Park Hopper Options can plan Lightning Lane Selections in another theme park”.

This advice seems inconsistent with what others reported yesterday. That language is a little ambiguous because “plan“ could mean when you make the plan or when you execute the plan.

To be clear, I am not criticizing this CM because that language is not as clear as it could be. Sometimes an example or two can clarify general language.


----------



## JustSayin

Long post warning.  TLDR: Genie+ does not seem to be generally worse than any other system that Disney has come up with, but it might be worse for you.

Before Legacy Fastpass, we would tour the parks by rope dropping with a rigid touring plan that had military like precision.  It required a lot more walking and very little flexibility, but we could ride everything we wanted to ride and never wait in a line longer than 20 minutes.  People who showed up with no plan spent most of their day in line or just didn’t do as much.

Then came Legacy Fastpass, and with slightly less planning, we could accomplish the same thing by rope dropping and the strategic use of Fastpass.  We were never in the “more is better” category of Fastpasses.  To be honest, back then there was a sizable group of people that the game of getting as many Fastpasses as possible was a big part of their enjoyment independent of the effort and time it saved them.  Not judging, it’s just not the way we did things. It was good, but not ideal for us as it still required getting up early to really get the benefit.  People who showed up with no knowledge of the system could get some benefit, but not anywhere near the benefit of the power user.

Then came Fastpass+.  I loved Fastpass+.  Now there is a whole new level of Disney planning!  We could sit around and talk about our top 3 must do attractions and figure out months ahead of time what we want to do.  Signing in and grabbing the time slots was a fun game.  I hated tiering but could largely get around that by spending multiple days in each park.  This system came with the added benefit that it allowed us to be 11-2 and 6-close park people (sleeping in is the best!), STILL not wait in lines, and get to ride everything we really cared about with little to no waits.  This was ideal for us, but there was a very vocal group that hated it.  They complained about how it killed spontaneity.  You had to know what you wanted to do and when months out!   They complained about how long it made lines for non-Fastpass holders.  People who showed up with no knowledge of the system often got little to no benefit from Fastpass+ as the headline attractions were gone months before they got there and now the standby lines moved slower.  This was doubly true if it was a busy time of year.

Then for a while there was nothing.  We really hated going back to nothing.  We no longer really wanted to rope drop every park OR wait in lines longer than 20 minutes.  This meant we enjoyed the parks but rode very few rides.

Now there is Genie+.  Just for perspective, my initial reaction was not to be upset that there was a cost.  I can see being disappointed, but literally every other park charges to skip lines and they charge a whole lot more than Disney.  If people are demonstrably willing to pay for this service it is not surprising to me at all that Disney has moved to charge for it.  Honestly, my initial response was that it was too cheap.  From a customer perspective, the value of this service goes up the fewer people who do it.  I still fear that when the dust settles $15 is not going to deter enough people to make this a great service when the parks are busy.

Initial indications are that this will be very much like Legacy Fastpass without physically running for the physical tickets.  There are differences, but I don’t think they are huge.  Yes, 1 LL pass per attraction is not ideal for the power user.  It does however mean there is MORE availability for everyone else.  The average person has a better chance of getting SDD because the power users who knows how to stack and maximize their bookings will not take 3 or 4 a day.  I understand (and agree) that this is not good for power users, but it is good for everyone else.  Your chances of getting a LL in the afternoon are MUCH better if people can only get 1 per day.  You may not like it, but it is the best option for giving the largest group of people a satisfactory Genie+ experience.  It will be back to early mornings on at least some days of our vacation.  Not ideal, but I can handle it.  There will be days that I don’t think it’s worth the price.  I won’t buy on those days and the experience will get slightly better for someone else every time someone like me chooses not to purchase.  My general reaction when anyone charges more than I think a product is worth is not to be angry.  It’s just to not buy it.  I don’t have a trip scheduled until May.  I expect that by then there will be optimized strategies on how to utilize Genie+ to get the most benefit.  Or it will be clear that it is not enough benefit to purchase it at all.  I expect the former is true, but I know how to handle it if the latter turns out to be the case.

Different things are valuable to different people.  I strongly expect that this might be the best thing so far for those who show up at Disney with no plan just expecting that they will have a good time.


----------



## LSUfan4444

MJJME said:


> OR WDW could just allow you to pick your return times?
> 
> Crazy idea, i know


Funny this topics got bumped...I had an alarm to look at Epcot at 1pm.

So, thinking of hopping to Epcot and making my first G+ (at 7am) for say Test Track a say 3pm. Right now, the G+ return time for Soarin is 1:10pm (which basically means now) so if you book TT first and started looking around 1pm ) based on today only you could easily lock up two G+ for TT and Soarin for an afternoon park hop. Remy ILL is only $9 right now so you could also add that and to me, thats a pretty solid afternoon


----------



## LSUfan4444

jimim said:


> see this is why i bought a boat instead of going to disney this year and next.  I'm just at the point in my life where I don't want to think this much about something. Especially a trip.  I have to me on my toes all day at work and with my kids at home.  I just want to be able to just shut off when I'm away at least.  lol


So you opted for a boat and not Disney to avoid stress? 

Congrats on what must be your first boat.

Just kidding obviously but seriously, congrats on the second best day of a boat owners life.

Okay, just kidding again. Seriously, congrats =)


----------



## Welsh_Dragon

igrsod said:


> First off, I want to thank all of you for posting the info from your experiences.  That is great information for those of us who have upcoming trips and are planning.
> I am a seasoned Disney vacationer.  I love/lived for the planning process.  I even would plan trips for family and friends for free..... it's a hobby.  But having read pages and pages about this new system, I am confused and frustrated.  I updated my app, tried to get things set up for future trips.. only to find out that as an AP holder, everyone else in my group and I can't plan Genie + or ILL$ together.  What a hassle.  The app is clunky and confusing.  I don't think I will use it at all when we are there on our next trip.  We have decided that we won't be forking out any $ for this new service.  It just doesn't seem worth it in time, money and satisfaction.  I don't want to be tied to my phone all day.  I don't want to be chasing rides across the parks.  I don't want to be worried about maximizing my money's worth from Genie +.
> I am happy for those that see this as a benefit for them and the way that they do the parks, but for me and our group of friends and family, this is not an upgrade at all.  I would happily pay for something that was going to enhance my vacation... and have done so in the form of many parties, tours and experiences.  This just isn't going to be one of them.
> My next research is to really see how stand by lines are truly effected by all of this once the initial frenzy dies down.  We generally don't mind waiting in line for the things we like to do.  We use the time to play heads up, meet new people, chat about life, plan our meals for the day etc.


I am in a similar position with 2 APs and 1 U.K. 14 day ticket. Although we can’t buy G+ in advance, with plain free G we can pick out the rides, experiences, parades, fireworks etc., for days on which you have park reservations and on the morning, when you wake up ️, G should give you a plan of attack and tips, including which LL to use if you chose to buy G+ and the cost of ILL$.


----------



## CJK

I am starting to get really nervous. With a trip coming up in a few days, I still can't get the Tip Board to work. I've tried EVERYTHING. I've tried chat, but can't get any response. Has anyone had my problem, but resolve it somehow??? Please help!


----------



## Sunelis

CJK said:


> I am starting to get really nervous. With a trip coming up in a few days, I still can't get the Tip Board to work. I've tried EVERYTHING. I've tried chat, but can't get any response. Has anyone had my problem, but resolve it somehow??? Please help!


I have the same problem in Canada. But I used a VPN to fake I was in the US and all of a sudden the tip board was working. So I assume that once I'm in
Disney it will work fine.


----------



## Jennasis

jimim said:


> see this is why i bought a boat instead of going to disney this year and next.  I'm just at the point in my life where I don't want to think this much about something. Especially a trip.  I have to me on my toes all day at work and with my kids at home.  I just want to be able to just shut off when I'm away at least.  lol


Not sure a boat is going to be any less work LOL. It must be your first. Congrats.


----------



## igrsod

Welsh_Dragon said:


> I am in a similar position with 2 APs and 1 U.K. 14 day ticket. Although we can’t buy G+ in advance, with plain free G we can pick out the rides, experiences, parades, fireworks etc., for days on which you have park reservations and on the morning, when you wake up , G should give you a plan of attack and tips, including which LL to use if you chose to buy G+ and the cost of ILL$.


That's true.  Having been to Disney so many times though, I don't think I want Genie telling me what to do.  We will just be on the go with the flow plan.  I might check to see general wait times to decide what area to go to, but other than that, I will leave my phone in my cute Disney backpack and enjoy the scenery.  I don't want to be stressed on vacation.  I want to enjoy my family, and just wander the parks doing fun things along the way.  Honestly, some of our best memories from Disney over the years were experiences or cast members we just happened upon as we went about our day.  Our worst day was our very last day we were at Disney with trying to get the boarding group lottery for our group, only to get called right before our ADR, running here and there and everywhere from sun up to sun down trying to fit it all in.... yuck.  Slow down and smell the popcorn and churros is going to be our new vacation approach.


----------



## Brewerfan101

cfw213 said:


> Yes and yes, you have it correct.
> The 120 min rule would kick in if attraction b had a return time of 5pm. You could then pull attraction C at 11:40am (2 hours after pulling attraction B)


Thank you; it seems to me that Park Hopping from MK to DS would not be very effective use of Genie+.
Assuming for example, you Tap In at Big Thunder at 1:30, Plan to Hop to DS, so you look for LL for SDD, and find something for a Return at 5:30. 
You're next opportunity to secure another LL at DS won't be until 3:30 (120 mins after Tapping In at Big Thunder), is that correct?
And the later you stay at MK, the more limited are your Options of finding much at DS as the evening progresses, Correct?


----------



## MikeandReneePlus5

JustSayin said:


> Long post warning.  TLDR: Genie+ does not seem to be generally worse than any other system that Disney has come up with, but it might be worse for you.
> 
> Before Legacy Fastpass, we would tour the parks by rope dropping with a rigid touring plan that had military like precision.  It required a lot more walking and very little flexibility, but we could ride everything we wanted to ride and never wait in a line longer than 20 minutes.  People who showed up with no plan spent most of their day in line or just didn’t do as much.
> 
> Then came Legacy Fastpass, and with slightly less planning, we could accomplish the same thing by rope dropping and the strategic use of Fastpass.  We were never in the “more is better” category of Fastpasses.  To be honest, back then there was a sizable group of people that the game of getting as many Fastpasses as possible was a big part of their enjoyment independent of the effort and time it saved them.  Not judging, it’s just not the way we did things. It was good, but not ideal for us as it still required getting up early to really get the benefit.  People who showed up with no knowledge of the system could get some benefit, but not anywhere near the benefit of the power user.
> 
> Then came Fastpass+.  I loved Fastpass+.  Now there is a whole new level of Disney planning!  We could sit around and talk about our top 3 must do attractions and figure out months ahead of time what we want to do.  Signing in and grabbing the time slots was a fun game.  I hated tiering but could largely get around that by spending multiple days in each park.  This system came with the added benefit that it allowed us to be 11-2 and 6-close park people (sleeping in is the best!), STILL not wait in lines, and get to ride everything we really cared about with little to no waits.  This was ideal for us, but there was a very vocal group that hated it.  They complained about how it killed spontaneity.  You had to know what you wanted to do and when months out!   They complained about how long it made lines for non-Fastpass holders.  People who showed up with no knowledge of the system often got little to no benefit from Fastpass+ as the headline attractions were gone months before they got there and now the standby lines moved slower.  This was doubly true if it was a busy time of year.
> 
> Then for a while there was nothing.  We really hated going back to nothing.  We no longer really wanted to rope drop every park OR wait in lines longer than 20 minutes.  This meant we enjoyed the parks but rode very few rides.
> 
> Now there is Genie+.  Just for perspective, my initial reaction was not to be upset that there was a cost.  I can see being disappointed, but literally every other park charges to skip lines and they charge a whole lot more than Disney.  If people are demonstrably willing to pay for this service it is not surprising to me at all that Disney has moved to charge for it.  Honestly, my initial response was that it was too cheap.  From a customer perspective, the value of this service goes up the fewer people who do it.  I still fear that when the dust settles $15 is not going to deter enough people to make this a great service when the parks are busy.
> 
> Initial indications are that this will be very much like Legacy Fastpass without physically running for the physical tickets.  There are differences, but I don’t think they are huge.  Yes, 1 LL pass per attraction is not ideal for the power user.  It does however mean there is MORE availability for everyone else.  The average person has a better chance of getting SDD because the power users who knows how to stack and maximize their bookings will not take 3 or 4 a day.  I understand (and agree) that this is not good for power users, but it is good for everyone else.  Your chances of getting a LL in the afternoon are MUCH better if people can only get 1 per day.  You may not like it, but it is the best option for giving the largest group of people a satisfactory Genie+ experience.  It will be back to early mornings on at least some days of our vacation.  Not ideal, but I can handle it.  There will be days that I don’t think it’s worth the price.  I won’t buy on those days and the experience will get slightly better for someone else every time someone like me chooses not to purchase.  My general reaction when anyone charges more than I think a product is worth is not to be angry.  It’s just to not buy it.  I don’t have a trip scheduled until May.  I expect that by then there will be optimized strategies on how to utilize Genie+ to get the most benefit.  Or it will be clear that it is not enough benefit to purchase it at all.  I expect the former is true, but I know how to handle it if the latter turns out to be the case.
> 
> Different things are valuable to different people.  I strongly expect that this might be the best thing so far for those who show up at Disney with no plan just expecting that they will have a good time.



I agree 100% with this post.  You've summarized our exact experiences and thoughts.  I loved FP+.


----------



## Disturbia

wisblue said:


> Here’s a puzzler.
> 
> I had a chat exchange with a CM today mainly to address my questions about our party with members with 2 different ticket types (annual pass and regular daily tickets). I’ll address what I was told there separately, maybe in a separate   thread.
> 
> But I also asked about making G+LL reservations in a second park. I used the specific example: If we have hopper tickets and park reservations at MK, can we make a G+LL reservation at Epcot as long as our selection window is open
> and the return time is after 2 PM.
> 
> The response I got was that we could not even select anything at a second park until 2 PM. The CM cited the following language from their official information: “At 2 PM ET- Guests with Park Hopper Options can plan Lightning Lane Selections in another theme park”.
> 
> This advice seems inconsistent with what others reported yesterday. That language is a little ambiguous because “plan“ could mean when you make the plan or when you execute the plan.
> 
> To be clear, I am not criticizing this CM because that language is not as clear as it could be. Sometimes an example or two can clarify general language.


As we can see from dfb and allears reports they made selections before 2 pm


----------



## ThistleMae

Avery&Todd said:


> Argh!!!!!!!!! Not what i wanted to hear!!!
> 
> We have to activate them when we arrive which means we'll miss all the 7am drops!!


What I read early on is you can purchase Genie + for the next day at midnight.  Anyone here try purchasing before 7 a.m.?


----------



## Disturbia

LSUfan4444 said:


> Funny this topics got bumped...I had an alarm to look at Epcot at 1pm.
> 
> So, thinking of hopping to Epcot and making my first G+ (at 7am) for say Test Track a say 3pm. Right now, the G+ return time for Soarin is 1:10pm (which basically means now) so if you book TT first and started looking around 1pm ) based on today only you could easily lock up two G+ for TT and Soarin for an afternoon park hop. Remy ILL is only $9 right now so you could also add that and to me, thats a pretty solid afternoon


No guarantee that at 7-10 am you would get test track at 3 pm as a park hopper.


----------



## PaladinButters

JustSayin said:


> Different things are valuable to different people. *I strongly expect that this might be the best thing so far for those who show up at Disney with no plan just expecting that they will have a good time.*



Agree with all of that.  
I just saw a post elsewhere that somebody got all the way into the parks while having no idea that it was the 50th anniversary. Somehow.  Somebody with enough knowledge to seek out specific Disney related social media to post on about it- missed that.  That person (who didn't book FP+ in advance, has no ressies, etc) doesn't have a chance at figuring out Genie/Genie+/ILL$_ but the great news is they will never know what they missed and be totally happy grabbing that one pass per ride per day at a reasonable cost! _


----------



## Disturbia

pineapplepalms said:


> From what I heard the 2 hours is based on booking time, not redemption time, so once the 2 hours has expired or you’ve redeemed your preciously booked one (whichever comes first), you can book your next one. This means you can potentially stack a bunch that even have overlapping times. Looking forward to seeing more in person reports of it working this way.


It appears it’s 2 hours from park opening not from 7 am (confusion comes from MK and HS being open at 9 am)


----------



## miprender

If I am reading everything right....I do not have to purchase genie+ to buy the individual rides like RotR?   I thought you could only add on after purchasing.  Luckily my trip isn't until April so I can get a better understanding of how this is going to work.


----------



## Disturbia

It would be easier if Disney would just change Genie+ to park opening or extra hours for all resort guests which ever is first.


----------



## TheMick424

I don't 


LSUfan4444 said:


> APs have to be added the day of
> For anyone who has a ticket, it can either be added the day of OR have the ticket converted into a G+ ticket in advance.
> 
> My advice to you would be wait until the day of for everyone


I don't mind waiting until the day of for everyone, but I was hoping to confirm that it doesn't require me to purchase Genie+ for my party in two transactions each day I want it (1 for the AP and 1 for the Tickets)


----------



## LSUfan4444

TheMick424 said:


> I don't
> 
> I don't mind waiting until the day of for everyone, but I was hoping to confirm that it doesn't require me to purchase Genie+ for my party in two transactions each day I want it (1 for the AP and 1 for the Tickets)


So long as it is the day-of and there is an existing ticket, it shouldn't matter. The only obstacle should come when adding it in advance.


----------



## Disturbia

miprender said:


> If I am reading everything right....I do not have to purchase genie+ to buy the individual rides like RotR?   I thought you could only add on after purchasing.  Luckily my trip isn't until April so I can get a better understanding of how this is going to work.


Yes you can choose to just pay for one or both LLIa$ rides, Genie+ is separate and can overlap


----------



## LSUfan4444

Disturbia said:


> No guarantee that at 7-10 am you would get test track at 3 pm as a park hopper.


There is never a guarantee but if thats the park you are hopping to your window doesnt even start until 2pm


----------



## miprender

Disturbia said:


> Yes you can choose to just pay for one or both LLIa$ rides, Genie+ is separate and can overlap


Thank you...that makes planning a lot easier.


----------



## DavidNYC

wisblue said:


> Here’s a puzzler.
> 
> I had a chat exchange with a CM today mainly to address my questions about our party with members with 2 different ticket types (annual pass and regular daily tickets). I’ll address what I was told there separately, maybe in a separate   thread.
> 
> But I also asked about making G+LL reservations in a second park. I used the specific example: If we have hopper tickets and park reservations at MK, can we make a G+LL reservation at Epcot as long as our selection window is open
> and the return time is after 2 PM.
> 
> The response I got was that we could not even select anything at a second park until 2 PM. The CM cited the following language from their official information: “At 2 PM ET- Guests with Park Hopper Options can plan Lightning Lane Selections in another theme park”.
> 
> This advice seems inconsistent with what others reported yesterday. That language is a little ambiguous because “plan“ could mean when you make the plan or when you execute the plan.
> 
> To be clear, I am not criticizing this CM because that language is not as clear as it could be. Sometimes an example or two can clarify general language.


I was just having this conversation on another thread.  It seems that you can in fact make regular LL reservations in your 2nd park for post 2pm even if the distribution time  hasn't reached that for people who started off in that park with their reservation.  I was very surprised that it worked that way and curious if that was what they intended.  (I'm still so skeptical that it really worked that way that I keep looking for more first hand accounts).  It seems a big loophole  . . . and one that definitely lends itself to some good touring strategies.


----------



## Brocktoon

Disturbia said:


> You can only cancel LL booked with genie+ (your rolling pass, no modifications): not the fixed LLiA$ rides



From what I've been reading / hearing, it sounds like you can only cancel a G+ LL BEFORE the window starts.  Once the LL window opens for an attraction you can no longer cancel and it counts as a G+ ride whether you rode or not.  

ie. If you miss your G+ window for Big Thunder, you can't select it again for that day even if you didn't ride.


----------



## zebrastreyepz

ENJDisneyFan said:


> DFB reported that it sold out around 10am both yesterday and today.


Rix Flix was at HS on the 19th at 945A and Rise was gone.


----------



## Welsh_Dragon

Miffy said:


> inability to conjugate the verbs "lie" and "lay."


I had an English grammar teacher who used to mockingly ask, ‘are you a chicken?’.


----------



## Miffy

AnnaKristoff2013 said:


> Genie is actually $16 per day with tax.


Hey, don't exaggerate!!! It's a mere $15.98!


----------



## GoingSince1990

Miffy said:


> Hey, don't exaggerate!!! It's a mere $15.98!


You just had to put your two cents in, didn't you?


----------



## MakiraMarlena

Brocktoon said:


> From what I've been reading / hearing, it sounds like you can only cancel a G+ LL BEFORE the window starts. Once the LL window opens for an attraction you can no longer cancel and it counts as a G+ ride whether you rode or not.



got it! pretty much the same as fastpass.


----------



## Miffy

igrsod said:


> First off, I want to thank all of you for posting the info from your experiences.  That is great information for those of us who have upcoming trips and are planning.
> I am a seasoned Disney vacationer.  I love/lived for the planning process.  I even would plan trips for family and friends for free..... it's a hobby.  But having read pages and pages about this new system, I am confused and frustrated.  I updated my app, tried to get things set up for future trips.. only to find out that as an AP holder, everyone else in my group and I can't plan Genie + or ILL$ together.  What a hassle.  The app is clunky and confusing.  I don't think I will use it at all when we are there on our next trip.  We have decided that we won't be forking out any $ for this new service.  It just doesn't seem worth it in time, money and satisfaction.  I don't want to be tied to my phone all day.  I don't want to be chasing rides across the parks.  I don't want to be worried about maximizing my money's worth from Genie +.
> I am happy for those that see this as a benefit for them and the way that they do the parks, but for me and our group of friends and family, this is not an upgrade at all.  I would happily pay for something that was going to enhance my vacation... and have done so in the form of many parties, tours and experiences.  This just isn't going to be one of them.
> My next research is to really see how stand by lines are truly effected by all of this once the initial frenzy dies down.  We generally don't mind waiting in line for the things we like to do.  We use the time to play heads up, meet new people, chat about life, plan our meals for the day etc.


Wait . . . Are you saying that an AP holder can book G+ and ILL$ for only her/herself and not for another member of their group? Even another AP holder? 

If so, that makes it completely useless for my sister and me, since we're both AP holders. If we can't book our G+ and ILL$ together, then . . . disaster!


----------



## fumanchu2488

A few notes from 1.5 days of using genie.  Day 1 only used an ILL for Remy.  Booked an 11:30 return at 7 am for 3 people.  About $30.  Walked right on the ride and the virtual queue line was at least 45 minutes or an hour.  I also tried for virtual queue and got boarding group 76. The app said I should be called around 1 pm.  It didn’t end up getting called until around 4 pm.  They should probably get rid of the virtual quest and just make it standby.

This morning used Genie+.  With two small kids we were not interested in ROTR.  We got a 9:20 Slinky at 7 am.  Then did early access for Mickey Runaway Railroad then did toy story mania as walk ons.  After slinky we got another LL for Alien Saucer at 10:35.  It was around 9:30 at that point so we did Star Tours and then the Disney junior dance party before our 10:30 LL.  We did that around 11 and then walked around Battu and got lunch then left for current hotel rest.  If we stayed around and didn’t have small kids we could have done RnR and Tower.  We have a reservation later at EPCOT and Test track LL around 11:30 was showing 3:30, so we have a 3:30-4:30 window for test track and I may end up buying ILL for Frozen.

long story short, experiences are a lot different if you pay than if you don’t.  Tomorrow is our last MK day and will be a good gauge for us because we had a MK day on Sunday before genie.  We will see how it goes since I plan on Genie+ and ILL for SDMT.


----------



## FCDub

Miffy said:


> I'm a professional copy editor and I see misspellings like "lightening" instead of "lightning" all the time in manuscripts written by authors whose names you'd recognize. It's a very common error, along with an inability to conjugate the verbs "lie" and "lay."
> 
> So, fellow DISers, don't feel too bad if you're calling it "Lightening Lane." It's a mistake even the pros make. And, if you think about it, it _is _lightening your wallet!



Considering how many people have an issue with the four-letter word “Oga’s,” there will be a lot of “lightening” to go along with lots of “dinning”


----------



## Grasshopper2016

mab2012 said:


> I'm trying to figure out the rules around stacking. Let's suppose that sometime before 9 am I book my first G+ selection for noon. I wait my 2h from park opening, and at 11 am, I book a second for sometime in the afternoon, say 3 pm.
> 
> My understanding, from previous posts in this thread, is that when I tap in for my first selection, I can immediately book another. That is, even though I'm still holding a G+ pass, I am not required to wait 120 minutes from the last selection to book another.
> 
> Assuming this is true (I'm not sure if it's really been confirmed, or if people are just guessing), are there any limitations on it? So, continuing the above example, after my 12 pm ride, I book and use a couple more early afternoon selections, and then eventually jump over the 3 pm timeslot that I booked several hours earlier, and make a selection for 4 pm (or later). What happens when I tap into that 3 pm ride? Can I just keep leapfrogging those two stacked selections for the rest of the day? I feel like this is unlikely, but at what point does the system recognize that actually, the selection you just tapped into was the "extra" one you were allowed to carry because of the earlier 120 minute wait, but now that you've used it, you have to wait another 2h, from your last selection, to stack again?


I am very interested in the answer to this question.  Does anyone have any insight?


----------



## wisblue

Miffy said:


> Wait . . . Are you saying that an AP holder can book G+ and ILL$ for only her/herself and not for another member of their group? Even another AP holder?
> 
> If so, that makes it completely useless for my sister and me, since we're both AP holders. If we can't book our G+ and ILL$ together, then . . . disaster!



I can’t guarantee anything but if you have two people both with APs you should be able to purchase G+ and book attractions together.

Here Is what I am learning about AP’s and Genie+, especially as it relates to groups with some AP holders and some regular ticket holders.

Anyone with one of these mixed groups who has tried to make theme park reservations has already found out that reservations for AP holders come from a different pool than other ticket holders. So, they have to be booked separately and they appear separately if you look at your plans in MDE.

At least for now, existing AP holders cannot add G+ to their tickets in advance. They will have to purchase G+ separately on each day that they wish to use it. That can be done after midnight (not clear if that is ET or PT), but it can be done before the 7 AM window for selecting the first G+LL opens.

Holders of regular tickets have the option of changing their current tickets to tickets with G+ access, but that is all or nothing and will cost $15 (plus tax) per day of the ticket. Some people might prefer to purchase G+ for only some of their park days, and that can only be done same day.

For our group of 4 (one AP, 3 daily tickets) if we all want G+ on a given day, that would be done in two separate transactions, one for me and one for the other 3. But, I was told by a CM in a chat today that, if all 4 of us purchase G+, we will then be treated as one group as we make G+LL attractions. I hope she was right.

As for a group with two or more who are all AP holders, you SHOULD be able to purchase G+ in one transaction and make LL selections together. When I pushed the purchase G+ button on the app I got a message that I would only be able to purchase together with guests with the same ticket type. That certainly suggests that multiple AP holders can purchase together.

Hope this is accurate and helps. I will report when I return from our trip next month.


----------



## Miffy

wisblue said:


> I can’t guarantee anything but if you have two people both with APs you should be able to purchase G+ and book attractions together.
> 
> Here Is what I am learning about AP’s and Genie+, especially as it relates to groups with some AP holders and some regular ticket holders.
> 
> Anyone with one of these mixed groups who has tried to make theme park reservations has already found out that reservations for AP holders come from a different pool than other ticket holders. So, they have to be booked separately and they appear separately if you look at your plans in MDE.
> 
> At least for now, existing AP holders cannot add G+ to their tickets in advance. They will have to purchase G+ separately on each day that they wish to use it. That can be done after midnight (not clear if that is ET or PT), but it can be done before the 7 AM window for selecting the first G+LL opens.
> 
> Holders of regular tickets have the option of changing their current tickets to tickets with G+ access, but that is all or nothing and will cost $15 (plus tax) per day of the ticket. Some people might prefer to purchase G+ for only some of their park days, and that can only be done same day.
> 
> For our group of 4 (one AP, 3 daily tickets) if we all want G+ on a given day, that would be done in two separate transactions, one for me and one for the other 3. But, I was told by a CM in a chat today that, if all 4 of us purchase G+, we will then be treated as one group as we make G+LL attractions. I hope she was right.
> 
> As for a group with two or more who are all AP holders, you SHOULD be able to purchase G+ in one transaction and make LL selections together. When I pushed the purchase G+ button I got a message that I would only be able to purchase together with guests with the same ticket type. That certainly suggests that multiple AP holders can purchase together.
> 
> Hope this is accurate and helps. I will report when I return from our trip next month.


I hope you're correct. Thanks so much for the clarification, @wisblue.

I was reading a bit on the AP/Genie thread and it seems that the system has some confusion regarding having an AP and also being a resort guest. I've run into this just making park reservations, so it's no surprise to me.


----------



## Disturbia

Brocktoon said:


> From what I've been reading / hearing, it sounds like you can only cancel a G+ LL BEFORE the window starts.  Once the LL window opens for an attraction you can no longer cancel and it counts as a G+ ride whether you rode or not.
> 
> ie. If you miss your G+ window for Big Thunder, you can't select it again for that day even if you didn't ride.


Didnt think of that!  Thanks


----------



## diskids2

I'm scratching my head with this one....If I purchase a ILL$ for let's say Rise of the Resistance and I get a time of 11:30 am.  And the ride breaks down.  I'm issued an all day return pass (or whatever we are calling it) and the ride is still broken down at 2 pm and I need to exit DHS because I have other arranged plans - I should not expect a refund?

I'm having trouble with this.  I purchased something that the company was unable to provide to me.  What am I missing?


----------



## CWTC

ThistleMae said:


> What I read early on is you can purchase Genie + for the next day at midnight.  Anyone here try purchasing before 7 a.m.?


Yes, we purchased today’s G+ on the bus back to Beach Club around 1210am after boo bash, no issues.  Then was able to book LL at 7am today: we elected not to buy ILL$ but they were offered to me as a choice.


----------



## Disturbia

diskids2 said:


> I'm scratching my head with this one....If I purchase a ILL$ for let's say Rise of the Resistance and I get a time of 11:30 am.  And the ride breaks down.  I'm issued an all day return pass (or whatever we are calling it) and the ride is still broken down at 2 pm and I need to exit DHS because I have other arranged plans - I should not expect a refund?
> 
> I'm having trouble with this.  I purchased something that the company was unable to provide to me.  What am I missing?


Yes it’s non Refundable officially; unofficially it probably depends; Deni was able to get it but that’s a lot of time wasted waiting in line

https://www.wdwinfo.com/walt-disney...fund-possible-when-an-attraction-breaks-down/


----------



## Avery&Todd

WAIT..I just think I read that as an AP, even if I'm staying at a Disney resort, for my entire stay I have to get up and purchase Genie + for EACH day separately and not purchase Genie + for entire stay on day #1?? 

WHAT. IN. THE. WORLD!!??!!

so I'm being "rewarded" with extra evening hours by staying deluxe, but at the same time I'm being "punished" by being an AP holder so I have to get up by 6:45am each morning to just buy Genie + to then book LL at 7am?


----------



## MakiraMarlena

Yes, as AP holder you have to purchase separately for each day that you want to use it.


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

diskids2 said:


> I'm scratching my head with this one....If I purchase a ILL$ for let's say Rise of the Resistance and I get a time of 11:30 am.  And the ride breaks down.  I'm issued an all day return pass (or whatever we are calling it) and the ride is still broken down at 2 pm and I need to exit DHS because I have other arranged plans - I should not expect a refund?
> 
> I'm having trouble with this.  I purchased something that the company was unable to provide to me.  What am I missing?


I think you’d have success getting a refund from guest services in this scenario.


----------



## Grumpy by Birth

Miffy said:


> I'm a professional copy editor and I see misspellings like "lightening" instead of "lightning" all the time in manuscripts written by authors whose names you'd recognize. It's a very common error, along with an inability to conjugate the verbs "lie" and "lay."
> 
> So, fellow DISers, don't feel too bad if you're calling it "Lightening Lane." It's a mistake even the pros make. And, if you think about it, it _is _lightening your wallet!


I had the same thought about Disney _*lightening *_our wallets to use that lane!


----------



## MakiraMarlena

Some were able to get gift cards due to Rise breaking down 3X yesterday, but they didn't get an actual refund, and it wouldn't be automatic, you 'd have to go to guest services. According to WDW you would get a refund only if Rise never reopened that day.


----------



## LSUfan4444

Avery&Todd said:


> WAIT..I just think I read that as an AP, even if I'm staying at a Disney resort, for my entire stay I have to get up and purchase Genie + for EACH day separately and not purchase Genie + for entire stay on day #1??
> 
> WHAT. IN. THE. WORLD!!??!!
> 
> so I'm being "rewarded" with extra evening hours by staying deluxe, but at the same time I'm being "punished" by being an AP holder so I have to get up by 6:45am each morning to just buy Genie + to then book LL at 7am?


I definitely would not think of it as an advantage to buy the entire stay in advance


----------



## MakiraMarlena

I would not want to buy it for the entire stay in advance either. It would be nice if you could choose one or two days in advance, but no one can do that. Even those who can buy in advance need to buy for every ticketed day in their stay, and from what I have learned about Genie+ that is throwing more money to the mouse than necessary.


----------



## CWTC

LSUfan4444 said:


> I definitely would not think of it as an advantage to buy the entire stay in advance


Agreed.  I don’t foresee us needing it every day and would not want to buy it for our whole stay (we have APs):  now if we could get a 1 time annual fee like Maxpass used to have, then that’s a different issue.  For us, we always stay at least 8 days and there will always be another trip: so the pressure to do everything doesn’t exist for us.


----------



## Disturbia

CWTC said:


> Agreed.  I don’t foresee us needing it every day and would not want to buy it for our whole stay (we have APs):  now if we could get a 1 time annual fee like Maxpass used to have, then that’s a different issue.  For us, we always stay at least 8 days and there will always be another trip: so the pressure to do everything doesn’t exist for us.


 I wish they would let us choose days in advance.  I have had issues on the payment screen so I don’t want to deal with that nonsense at 7 am.


----------



## wisblue

It’s only Day 2 but I have noticed something different with G+LL at DAK.

Both yesterday and today at 7 AM I looked to see what kind of LL return times  there were in the parks. At DAK, both the Safari and Kali were listed as “closed” and no LL times were offered. Both attractions were open during the morning.

The only thing I can think of is that the Safari is scheduled to open at 8:15 (probably because of the late sunrises at this time of year) and Kali is scheduled to open at 9, so they don’t offer LL times until they actually open the attractions. The Safari would  be a logical choice for the first LL selection at DAK but, at least for now, you can’t do that at 7 AM. Maybe that will change when daylight saving time ends and the sunrise gets earlier. 

I also noticed that, unlike the other 3 parks, DAK does not have an “edit selections” button that lets you put your priority attractions at the top of the otherwise alphabetical list.


----------



## Sjm9911

Disturbia said:


> I wish they would let us choose days in advance.  I have had issues on the payment screen so I don’t want to deal with that nonsense at 7 am.


Thats why i got it for the whole stay. Just easier. I have to rely on disney IT in the morning for the genie +, and maybe virtual cues. For some reason me and disney IT stuff dont play well together. Just one more thing i don't have to do in the am. Is it worth it? Who knows, in for a penny in for a pound. Unfortunately,  i am running out of pounds.........


----------



## Disturbia

wisblue said:


> It’s only Day 2 but I have noticed something different with G+LL at DAK.
> 
> Both yesterday and today at 7 AM I looked to see what kind of LL return times  there were in the parks. At DAK, both the Safari and Kali were listed as “closed” and no LL times were offered. Both attractions were open during the morning.
> 
> The only thing I can think of is that the Safari is scheduled to open at 8:15 (probably because of the late sunrises at this time of year) and Kali is scheduled to open at 9, so they don’t offer LL times until they actually open the attractions. The Safari would  be a logical choice for the first LL selection at DAK but, at least for now, you can’t do that at 7 AM. Maybe that will change when daylight saving time ends and the sunrise gets earlier.
> 
> I also noticed that, unlike the other 3 parks, DAK does not have an “edit selections” button that lets you put your priority attractions at the top of the otherwise alphabetical list.


Closed?  Should still be able to book the first one?  This makes no sense.  They need to be consistent, it’s like we’re buying extra stress


----------



## wisblue

Disturbia said:


> Closed?  Should still be able to book the first one?  This makes no sense.  They need to be consistent, it’s like we’re buying extra stress



I would think so too, but it hasn’t been that way.

Interestingly, the ride shows as “temporarily closed” now, but LL is still offered.


----------



## cfw213

Grasshopper2016 said:


> I am very interested in the answer to this question.  Does anyone have any insight?


I’ve been thinking a lot about this. What I *think* will happen is that if the first attraction that you booked with the farther out return time (attraction A) is not within 120 mins, you’ll be able to book another as soon as you tap into attraction b. If it’s within 2 hours I don’t think you’ll be able to “leapfrog”

ex: at 7am book slinky for 5pm return time (exaggerating for example)
At 11am book TSM for 1230 pm return. I think in this scenario you’d be able to book another at 1230 or when you tap into TSM, because slinky is more than 2 hours away. If slinky was at, say, 2pm, I don’t think you’d be able to book another attraction after tapping into TSM, but I haven’t seen reports of this in practice - just my guess


----------



## GoingSince1990

MakiraMarlena said:


> Some were able to get gift cards due to Rise breaking down 3X yesterday, but they didn't get an actual refund, and it wouldn't be automatic, you 'd have to go to guest services. According to WDW you would get a refund only if Rise never reopened that day.


A greedy and unreasonable policy. Even an airline ticket that is fully nonrefundable will be refunded in full if the flight is canceled, or changed by more than a couple of hours. It's fine to give an all-day return pass as an option, but if the guest is unable to use that if and when the ride reopens, because they have other plans such as a flight to catch, the refund should be automatic.


----------



## SheSingsAlong

wisblue said:


> It’s only Day 2 but I have noticed something different with G+LL at DAK.
> 
> Both yesterday and today at 7 AM I looked to see what kind of LL return times  there were in the parks. At DAK, both the Safari and Kali were listed as “closed” and no LL times were offered. Both attractions were open during the morning.
> 
> The only thing I can think of is that the Safari is scheduled to open at 8:15 (probably because of the late sunrises at this time of year) and Kali is scheduled to open at 9, so they don’t offer LL times until they actually open the attractions. The Safari would  be a logical choice for the first LL selection at DAK but, at least for now, you can’t do that at 7 AM. Maybe that will change when daylight saving time ends and the sunrise gets earlier.



I was clicking around the Tip Board from home yesterday and today. For MK, yesterday after 7am I could see the G+ return time options for all MK rides which utilize lightning lane. Today, however, half the park's rides were marked "closed" - it appeared to be all the rides which are not open for Early Entry. The time was maybe 8:45am. So maybe, like you found in AK, they decided not to allow G+ selections for those rides until the rides actually opened? But why? You can make your first G+ selection at 7AM and none of the parks are generally open at 7AM. Why restrict certain rides? So confusing!


----------



## Disturbia

There should be some makeup pass for people who miss something (stuck on monorail) etc.  Genie should know that the ride was not redeemed


----------



## Avery&Todd

LSUfan4444 said:


> I definitely would not think of it as an advantage to buy the entire stay in advance


for me it would be - then I don't have to buy it each morning since for this trip I plan on using it each day. 

I guess I'd like the option to purchase it each day I wanted it at the start of my trip vs. having to remember and get up earlier each morning...


----------



## persnickity

A lot of people have lamented having to get up at 7am on your vacation (understandable), but I feel like it usually isn't going to be necessary since we've determined that the stacking window doesn't begin until park open. The exception would be HS and booking an SDD lightning lane - you might miss out on that if you sleep in. But needing to wake up early to get the most out of your HS day is nothing new, it's been pretty necessary for the past 2 years.


----------



## Miffy

persnickity said:


> A lot of people have lamented having to get up at 7am on your vacation (understandable), but I feel like it usually isn't going to be necessary since we've determined that the stacking window doesn't begin until park open. The exception would be HS and booking an SDD lightning lane - you might miss out on that if you sleep in. But needing to wake up early to get the most out of your HS day is nothing new, it's been pretty necessary for the past 2 years.


Seriously. We got up at 3:30 or so in December 2019 so we could Uber over to DHS and stand in line--nowhere near the front of the line, btw--in order to be tapped in to DHS as early as possible and try for a BG for RotR at the first opportunity. Back in ye olden times.

Hey, remember when people were complaining about the unfairness of the RotR so-called lottery? At least that was free. Now you get to pay $15 and maybe not even get on the ride and also not get a refund!


----------



## CarolynFH

Having gotten up in time to be inside DHS gates at whatever time was necessary in January 2020 to get a RotR BG (all I can remember is that it was still dark), and having awakened in time to get onto the phone at 7:00 AM to get RotR BG, I’m not worried about waking up in time to get on the phone to buy Genie+, book Genie+ LL, and/or book ILL$ at 7:00 AM. If I book carefully, I might even be able to go back to sleep!


----------



## Grumpy by Birth

MakiraMarlena said:


> Some were able to get gift cards due to Rise breaking down 3X yesterday, but they didn't get an actual refund, and it wouldn't be automatic, you 'd have to go to guest services. According to WDW you would get a refund only if Rise never reopened that day.


Another wrinkle with ROTR ILL$ is that the ride often seems to be omitting some of the pre-shows which, to many people, is an integral and critical part of the experience. 

I realize that "experiences/rides are not guaranteed."  But if you're charging extra for expedited access to the ride and then don't offer the complete experience, there are going to be disgruntled customers because of that (at least those that are "in the know" with regards to what is _supposed _to happen).


----------



## MJJME

persnickity said:


> A lot of people have lamented having to get up at 7am on your vacation (understandable), but I feel like it usually isn't going to be necessary since we've determined that the stacking window doesn't begin until park open. The exception would be HS and booking an SDD lightning lane - you might miss out on that if you sleep in. But needing to wake up early to get the most out of your HS day is nothing new, it's been pretty necessary for the past 2 years.


I guess the point is, that this is not necessary......

Why not let people start booking an hour after the park closes the previous night?  There is absolutely no difference at all.....Why 7am?


----------



## zebrastreyepz

diskids2 said:


> I'm scratching my head with this one....If I purchase a ILL$ for let's say Rise of the Resistance and I get a time of 11:30 am.  And the ride breaks down.  I'm issued an all day return pass (or whatever we are calling it) and the ride is still broken down at 2 pm and I need to exit DHS because I have other arranged plans - I should not expect a refund?
> 
> I'm having trouble with this.  I purchased something that the company was unable to provide to me.  What am I missing?


PWOR the last two pages.... https://www.wdwinfo.com/walt-disney...fund-possible-when-an-attraction-breaks-down/


----------



## zebrastreyepz

rtravels said:


> For some reason people here don't know how to spell 'dining' either. Shows up as 'dinning' all the time.


Suronded bye purfection, I am.


----------



## jamescanuck2001

Wow, I just read the last few pages and decided to hold off for a while on the next Disney vacation.  Doesn't sound fun at all


----------



## AquaDame

jamescanuck2001 said:


> Wow, I just read the last few pages and decided to hold off for a while on the next Disney vacation.  Doesn't sound fun at all



Problem is we've already pushed our vacation off 3x at a higher cost each time... hotels going up is one thing but the fact that our tickets go up each time now too and we can't get a refund for those... I want this next trip OVER WITH so I can walk away for awhile.


----------



## LSUfan4444

Avery&Todd said:


> for me it would be - then I don't have to buy it each morning since for this trip I plan on using it each day.


You still have to go on each day and make your selections. The only difference is, purchasing it in advance commits you to it.


----------



## Disturbia

Genie+ should be first pass at park open like maxpass.  I don’t want my app to crash and I can’t even see waits; have you tried wifi in the buses?  Has anything improved since June?


----------



## Disturbia

Also why isn’t Disney bringing back the after hours event at AK and HS for those of us not on EST.


----------



## Avery&Todd

LSUfan4444 said:


> You still have to go on each day and make your selections. The only difference is, purchasing it in advance commits you to it.


Yes, I understand that - I'd still like the option to be able to purchase it for my whole stay.

I don't have commitment issues - I've been married over 28 years!  

and when we take my cousin in March I can upgrade her ticket ahead of time but I'll have to do our APs each day....

but it's oK, I'll get over my pre-planning issue with this aspect!


----------



## yellowfish78

Disturbia said:


> I wish they would let us choose days in advance.  I have had issues on the payment screen so I don’t want to deal with that nonsense at 7 am.



I feel that this will change going forward - similar to DVC adding the dining plan, you can add a length of stay Genie+.



GoingSince1990 said:


> A greedy and unreasonable policy. Even an airline ticket that is fully nonrefundable will be refunded in full if the flight is canceled, or changed by more than a couple of hours. It's fine to give an all-day return pass as an option, but if the guest is unable to use that if and when the ride reopens, because they have other plans such as a flight to catch, the refund should be automatic.


But why do they? Automatically would be great, but even airlines don't automatically give you a refund if your flight is canceled or changed. You have to ask for it.  Then you'll have the other end of things: "oh you refunded me automatically for Rise when it came up 30 mins before park close and I'm still here? I still want my ride I didn't ask for a refund."


----------



## nurseberta

Grumpy by Birth said:


> Another wrinkle with ROTR ILL$ is that the ride often seems to be omitting some of the pre-shows which, to many people, is an integral and critical part of the experience.
> 
> I realize that "experiences/rides are not guaranteed."  But if you're charging extra for expedited access to the ride and then don't offer the complete experience, there are going to be disgruntled customers because of that (at least those that are "in the know" with regards to what is _supposed _to happen).



is this because the LL bypasses ride content? I have never been on it


----------



## CWTC

Disturbia said:


> There should be some makeup pass for people who miss something (stuck on monorail) etc.  Genie should know that the ride was not redeemed


The problem though is everyone would use that as an excuse and badger the CMs.


----------



## Marionnette

I just finished watching blogs by PCDev, Paging Mr. Morrow, Kyle Pallone and I rewatched the Touring Plans video.

The general feeling was that IL$ was worthwhile for the vacationer but local APs probably won't use them. PCDev showed a LL queu for ROTR from yesterday that went on forever due to the ride breaking down several times. Imagine paying $15 per person (to be able to skip the 2-hr standby line) and you end up standing in a LL queue that is almost as long! BTW, the standby line for ROTR was closed once it reached 2 hours and guests could not join standby. All the live bloggers were surprised to learn that the ILL$ were limited to 2 per day total and not per park. They all felt that this was a flawed limitation because they could see that ILL$ were available but they could not purchase them

As for Genie+, they all pretty much felt it was not worth purchasing. But keep in mind that this comes from the perspective of individuals who are in the parks regularly and are less likely to want to ride lower-tier attractions. All of the live bloggers were not attempting to stack reservations. They were choosing the return times for attractions they prefer, were not refreshing to see if better times were available and were not attempting to minimize their overall wait times. None of them combined ILL$, G+ and standby. They were only doing ILL$ and G+.

For G+, tapping in around 5 minutes early worked. Mr. Morrow was 14 minutes late for Soaring and Mickey still turned green when he tapped in.

If you skip a G+ reservation and you're well past your return window, it counts as your one G+ for that attraction. You can cancel before your return window opens and still be able to get a G+ for that attraction later but once the window opens, you're SOL.

I'm still watching a few other videos. I'm still on the fence about spending for either G+ or ILL$ on our next trip. Partly because I have a great distaste for the nickle and dime approach and partly because I just don't feel it's worth it since we will have an infant in tow. On top of that my MDE app throws an error when I'm signed in and won't allow me to purchase ILL$ but I can buy them for myself if I'm signed in under my husband's account. Go figure that one! It's just not worth my time to try to get Disney IT to fix it.


----------



## maciemouse

I am going to Epcot tomorrow evening.  How do I pick a later time for Remy?  It is always showing the next available time when i have been looking today.  I need something late.  Is there a way to pick your time?  Thanks!


----------



## Disturbia

Just remembered; add your card to magic mobile (where your Apple Pay is stored); mine got deleted somehow

had a code sent to my email and had to add it again (it’s an option in the app menu below my genie day)


----------



## Marionnette

maciemouse said:


> I am going to Epcot tomorrow evening.  How do I pick a later time for Remy?  It is always showing the next available time when i have been looking today.  I need something late.  Is there a way to pick your time?  Thanks!


When you click on "purchase" you will be given a number of time ranges to pick from. Once you choose a time frame it will display actual return times in that time frame. e.g. You pick 7 PM and it might show return times of 7:05, 7:20 and 7:45 to choose from.


----------



## DisneyKidds

Grumpy by Birth said:


> Another wrinkle with ROTR ILL$ is that the ride often seems to be omitting some of the pre-shows which, to many people, is an integral and critical part of the experience.


Can you tell me more about this?  What parts of RotR does ILL$ cut out?

Having experienced RotR in both DL and HS my opinion is that RotR isn’t necessarily a great ride, but what makes it a worthwhile attraction (not that I’ll ever pay ILL$ money for it, overall it’s not that good once you’ve seen it once) is the entire experience from start to finish.  That is unique and cool, you live a full Star Wars story.  Remove any aspects of that overall experience and the attraction would just be meh.  I’d be po’d if I paid for it and didn’t get the full experience.

That’s always been a problem with some FP attractions, you bypass the best parts of the queues, things that are worth seeing.  I could deal with it for a free time savings, but having to pay and miss out would be terrible.


----------



## Alexis56578

We're not going 'til May, but from what I've seen the past two days, it's really only necessary to buy LL and even that varies by ride. I'm gonna keep an eye on ride times, but I don't personally see a problem with waiting 45 minutes to ride Haunted Mansion. The only rides I'm looking at that are floating at higher times are Pirates and Peter Pan.

I'm going to go ahead and guess that it won't be worth the money unless you're going during times when the parks are at capacity like Christmas Day or New Year's.


----------



## persnickity

MJJME said:


> I guess the point is, that this is not necessary......
> 
> Why not let people start booking an hour after the park closes the previous night?  There is absolutely no difference at all.....Why 7am?



In my ideal world, they'd open up booking an hour before open for the park you have your reservation in - that seems like a reasonable compromise to me. I don't know why they settled on 7am, but I have no trouble at all imagining why midnight wouldn't be popular.


----------



## wisblue

nurseberta said:


> is this because the LL bypasses ride content? I have never been on it



It wouldn’t be that. Occasionally some earlier elements of the attraction before the main ride are not working properly and they have a way to bypass them.

That happened to us once on a day when the ride had been down for a few hours. When you know what the whole attraction usually is, and one or more elements are left out, it is disappointing.

I think someone who pays for a specific experience is entitled to receive the full experience. I also think that a gift card in the amount paid is reasonable compensation. Use it to buy a couple of drinks or snacks that you probably would have gotten anyway and you’re back to even without making someone go through the process of initiating a credit to your payment method.


----------



## wisblue

DisneyKidds said:


> Can you tell me more about this?  What parts of RotR does ILL$ cut out?
> 
> Having experienced RotR in both DL and HS my opinion is that RotR isn’t necessarily a great ride, but what makes it a worthwhile attraction (not that I’ll ever pay ILL$ money for it, overall it’s not that good once you’ve seen it once) is the entire experience from start to finish.  That is unique and cool, you live a full Star Wars story.  Remove any aspects of that overall experience and the attraction would just be meh.  I’d be po’d if I paid for it and didn’t get the full experience.
> 
> That’s always been a problem with some FP attractions, you bypass the best parts of the queues, things that are worth seeing.  I could deal with it for a free time savings, but having to pay and miss out would be terrible.



I don’t think he’s saying that the IALL always leaves out some elements. It’s that some days some elements are bypassed for everyone.


----------



## Jonfw2

Fastpass always skipped segments of the lines for certain rides. Flight being the highest example.

Having said that, I think RotR’s preshows being down yesterday was a coincidence.


----------



## Disturbia

Paging Mr Morrow checked with a coordinator at FOP said there is no 15 min grace period at the end for Genie+; it depends on the Cast Member.  He was 14 mins late at Soarin and his magic band lit up green.

He park hopped  so you can only buy 2 LLIA$ Per day, not per park.


----------



## jimim

LSUfan4444 said:


> So you opted for a boat and not Disney to avoid stress?
> 
> Congrats on what must be your first boat.
> 
> Just kidding obviously but seriously, congrats on the second best day of a boat owners life.
> 
> Okay, just kidding again. Seriously, congrats =)



I know all the jokes. There is zero stress in fishing or owning a boat. All my friends have them and have zero stress. I fish from them weekly for years. I have owned little boats. This is my first decked out bass boat. But I have good people around me to always help me. No stress here or ever will be on the water.


----------



## wisblue

persnickity said:


> In my ideal world, they'd open up booking an hour before open for the park you have your reservation in - that seems like a reasonable compromise to me. I don't know why they settled on 7am, but I have no trouble at all imagining why midnight wouldn't be popular.



The problem with an hour before opening would be that a lot of people planning to be there at opening would be in transit.

I was thinking about that for DAK where we will want to be at the park by 7:30 for the Early Entry.  If I want to make any LL reservations at 7 AM that day it would have to be on the bus or after we arrive at the park.

Midnight wouldn’t be popular with people (like us)  who want to be asleep by then because they plan to be up early to get to a park at rope drop.


----------



## DisneyKidds

wisblue said:


> I don’t think he’s saying that the IALL always leaves out some elements. It’s that some days some elements are bypassed for everyone.


So saying ILL$ leaves our elements of the experience is inaccurate.  ILL$ delivers whatever partial experience is available to everyone if parts of the attraction are down.  Whew!  Thanks for clarifying.

Paying and not getting the RotR full Monty would be worse than not paying and not getting the RotR full Monty though.


----------



## jimim

Jennasis said:


> Not sure a boat is going to be any less work LOL. It must be your first. Congrats.


See previous post. People always say that. Like I said I’m on 3 different boats weekly fishing for many many years and there is never any stress but we also are able to service anything that goes wrong and service as needed. Maybe there is no stress cause they are able to fix anything as it comes up.


----------



## Monk6552

SheSingsAlong said:


> I was clicking around the Tip Board from home yesterday and today. For MK, yesterday after 7am I could see the G+ return time options for all MK rides which utilize lightning lane. Today, however, half the park's rides were marked "closed" - it appeared to be all the rides which are not open for Early Entry. The time was maybe 8:45am. So maybe, like you found in AK, they decided not to allow G+ selections for those rides until the rides actually opened? But why? You can make your first G+ selection at 7AM and none of the parks are generally open at 7AM. Why restrict certain rides? So confusing!



I saw this as well - expect I looked at the rides earlier and all of those rides WERE available with LL times - and then they went dark as "closed" until 9:00 AM on the dot - I refreshed and they were back. Very weird.


----------



## wisblue

DisneyKidds said:


> So saying ILL$ leaves our elements of the experience is inaccurate.  ILL$ delivers whatever partial experience is available to everyone if parts of the attraction are down.  Whew!  Thanks for clarifying.
> 
> Paying and not getting the RotR full Monty would be worse than not paying and not getting the RotR full Monty though.



Please see my post before the one you quoted where I gave my opinion about getting less than the full experience.

I think I made it clear that I think someone who pays for a full experience is entitled to the full experience.


----------



## RalphRR

I have a different question. I was poking around with the Genie app for a vacation I have coming up before Christmas. I have park passes for all the days of the stay, but Genie tells me that no one is eligible to use the Genie services on some of the days. I thought I could just get a new park pass, but there none available. Anyone have any fixes?

RalphRR


----------



## Monk6552

FWIW, we are arriving tomorrow and got G+ for our entire stay (we have a vacation package and I'm not sure we could've chosen by day even if we wanted to, either way - we're locked in already).

For tomorrow we are going to DHS. My hope is that I can purchase the two ILL$ AND a G+ likely for SDD at 7 am before our flights take off, but as others have noted - we are at the mercy of the LL availability at that time and ironically it may be too _early_ for us if G+ hasn't been booked out late enough in the day to make sure we will be at the park in time - in which case we'll need to see what's available when we land.

The ideal would be if we could stack all three at something like SDD 4:00 PM, RotR 5:00 PM, MMRR 6:00 PM....but it's a bit of a crap shoot, so I guess we'll see!

My biggest question at this point is if there is any drawback to enabling regular Genie? I've been looking at all the return times on G+ for the past two days to get a sense, but I've been hesitant to enable regular Genie as I'm nervous that it could result in not showing me all the rides on the tip board. Anyone have experience with it yet?


----------



## Grumpy by Birth

nurseberta said:


> is this because the LL bypasses ride content? I have never been on it





DisneyKidds said:


> So saying ILL$ leaves our elements of the experience is inaccurate.  ILL$ delivers whatever partial experience is available to everyone if parts of the attraction are down.  Whew!  Thanks for clarifying.
> 
> Paying and not getting the RotR full Monty would be worse than not paying and not getting the RotR full Monty though.


I could have been more clear in what I meant. 

As Wisblue said, I didn't mean to indicate that the LL bypasses/leaves out some of the experience.  But if elements are not working, you would miss out on them. 

I understand that they can't control when something isn't working.  But my point is that people are going to be more willing to accept missing one of those elements if they didn't pay extra for expedited access.  

If people have paid extra, they are going to be extra unhappy if part of the ride is skipped because it's not working during your ILL$ window.


----------



## fumanchu2488

Monk6552 said:


> FWIW, we are arriving tomorrow and got G+ for our entire stay (we have a vacation package and I'm not sure we could've chosen by day even if we wanted to, either way - we're locked in already).
> 
> For tomorrow we are going to DHS. My hope is that I can purchase the two ILL$ AND a G+ likely for SDD at 7 am before our flights take off, but as others have noted - we are at the mercy of the LL availability at that time and ironically it may be too _early_ for us if G+ hasn't been booked out late enough in the day to make sure we will be at the park in time - in which case we'll need to see what's available when we land.
> 
> The ideal would be if we could stack all three at something like SDD 4:00 PM, RotR 5:00 PM, MMRR 6:00 PM....but it's a bit of a crap shoot, so I guess we'll see!


So I just did Genie+ today at HS.  You can choose the times for ROTR and MMRR at 7 am.  I would book ROTR first thing at 7 and then do MMRR next.  I would do those first (4 and 5) and plan on SDD last with Genie+.  You will probably be trying to book SDD around 10 or 11 with Genie + to get something around 6.  Just keep looking at your tip board to see times then book as it gets later.


----------



## scrappinginontario

DisneyKidds said:


> Can you tell me more about this?  What parts of RotR does ILL$ cut out?
> 
> Having experienced RotR in both DL and HS my opinion is that RotR isn’t necessarily a great ride, but what makes it a worthwhile attraction (not that I’ll ever pay ILL$ money for it, overall it’s not that good once you’ve seen it once) is the entire experience from start to finish.  That is unique and cool, you live a full Star Wars story.  Remove any aspects of that overall experience and the attraction would just be meh.  I’d be po’d if I paid for it and didn’t get the full experience.
> 
> That’s always been a problem with some FP attractions, you bypass the best parts of the queues, things that are worth seeing.  I could deal with it for a free time savings, but having to pay and miss out would be terrible.


For those wishing to discuss which parts of RotR queue are skipped by purchasing ILL$, please discuss in the SW sub-forum with a *Spoiler* notification in the thread title.  There are many who have not had the opportunity to ride yet.

Thanks


----------



## Monk6552

fumanchu2488 said:


> So I just did Genie+ today at HS.  You can choose the times for ROTR and MMRR at 7 am.  I would book ROTR first thing at 7 and then do MMRR next.  I would do those first (4 and 5) and plan on SDD last with Genie+.  You will probably be trying to book SDD around 10 or 11 with Genie + to get something around 6.  Just keep looking at your tip board to see times then book as it gets later.



Thank you this is helpful! Would love to know if there's a particular reason to schedule the ILL$ before SDD? More chance of delays with those rides? (I've never been on any of them.)


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

wisblue said:


> I had a chat exchange with a CM today mainly to address my questions about our party with members with 2 different ticket types (annual pass and regular daily tickets). I’ll address what I was told there separately, maybe in a separate thread.


Would really like this information because this is the boat I am in.  I have an AP, my wife and kids have regular tickets.  I am concerned we won’t be able to make G+ selections together which will make life very difficult.  I’m almost considering upgrading them to AP’s just to avoid this issue.


----------



## fumanchu2488

Monk6552 said:


> Thank you this is helpful! Would love to know if there's a particular reason to schedule the ILL$ before SDD? More chance of delays with those rides? (I've never been on any of them.)


With ILL you will get to pick a return time.  So at 7 am you can go in and pick 4 pm.  So for ROTR and MMRR, you can choose your 1 HR window.  For SDD you will have to time it.  The Genie+ LL is just as it goes.  For example, right now I can get. Star Tours LL for 6:50 but the next Alien Saucers is 7:40 and SDD is done for the night.  If you are looking for a 3 pm to 6 pm SDD you will just need to keep checking the tip board to see when that window opens.


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

diskids2 said:


> I'm having trouble with this. I purchased something that the company was unable to provide to me. *What am I missing?*


----------



## twodogs

DavidNYC said:


> It's not that we cannot see that others may find value in G+.  It's that the vast majority of what people are posting about the value of Genie+ was easily obtained under the old FP+ system (other than the ability to pay for certain rides).   On the flip side however, there was a great amount of value under FP+ that is now no longer obtainable under Genie+ at all.    That's the difference.  Not that Genie+ has no value - it's that is has far less value to a huge group of people while offering very minimal new benefit to a smaller number of people.  After today - the main argument about the stress of having to pick rides 30 days out has gone out the window as we saw that people had to do the same if not more planning today without the ability to choose their own times and the rides they couldn't get in advance then are basically the ones you have to pay for now anyway so that is out the window as well.
> 
> So in sum . . . it offers value over a standby only system.  It offers far less value than FP+.


I would offer that you may be failing to recognize that Disney (the company) *is not trying to offer you value*. They are trying to make more money than they were making before.  They are a public company and their mission is to increase shareholder value by making more money.  Until people are so turned off by this that they stop spending said money at Disney, to the point that shareholder value is lost, they will keep doing it.  At any point, any of us can determine that the value is not there for us, and we can vote with our wallet.  Or we can determine that the value is still there, and vote with our wallet as well.  That is the beauty of it.  But, the old system is no longer on offer, so the value of G+ versus FP+ doesn't really matter.  What matters is the value of G+ to you now; vote with your wallet on that one.


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

GoingSince1990 said:


> A greedy and unreasonable policy. Even an airline ticket that is fully nonrefundable will be refunded in full if the flight is canceled, or changed by more than a couple of hours. It's fine to give an all-day return pass as an option, but if the guest is unable to use that if and when the ride reopens, because they have other plans such as a flight to catch, the refund should be automatic.


You’d probably win a credit card chargeback in this scenario.   That’s what I’d do if the only alternative was 6 hours on hold trying to get through to Disney.


----------



## DavidNYC

twodogs said:


> I would offer that you may be failing to recognize that Disney (the company) *is not tyring to offer you value*. They are trying to make more money than they were making before.  They are a public company and their mission is to increase shareholder value by making more money.  Until people are so turned off by this that they stop spending said money at Disney, to the point that shareholder value is lost, they will keep doing it.  At any point, any of us can determine that the value is not there for us, and we can vote with our wallet.  Or we can determine that the value is still there, and vote with our wallet as well.  That is the beauty of it.  But, the old system is no longer on offer, so the value of G+ versus FP+ doesn't really matter.  What matters is the value of G+ to you now; vote with your wallet on that one.



We don't fail to recognize that at all.  What you fail to recognize is what happens when companies lose a carefully developed reputation and start being seen as someone who only cares about their bottom line and not their customers.   Most companies like this try to work their asses off to get a reputation of being a company that continually innovates to offer their customers more.  Disney has crossed a huge line here based on the feedback their getting from people who have been devoted to them for decades - that should be a warning shot to them.


----------



## twodogs

mab2012 said:


> So I'm trying to figure out the rules around stacking.  Let's suppose that sometime before 9 am I book my first G+ selection for noon.  I wait my 2h from park opening, and at 11 am, I book a second for sometime in the afternoon, say 3 pm.
> 
> My understanding, from previous posts in this thread, is that when I tap in for my first selection, I can immediately book another.  That is, even though I'm still holding a G+ pass, I am not required to wait 120 minutes from the last selection to book another.
> 
> Assuming this is true (I'm not sure if it's really been confirmed, or if people are just guessing), are there any limitations on it?  So, continuing the above example, after my 12 pm ride, I book and use a couple more early afternoon selections, and then eventually jump over the 3 pm timeslot that I booked several hours earlier, and make a selection for 4 pm (or later).  What happens when I tap into that 3 pm ride?  Can I just keep leapfrogging those two stacked selections for the rest of the day?  I feel like this is unlikely, but at what point does the system recognize that actually, the selection you just tapped into was the "extra" one you were allowed to carry because of the earlier 120 minute wait, but now that you've used it, you have to wait another 2h, from your last selection, to stack again?
> 
> And even assuming that the software algorithm is written correctly (it's non-trivial and likely error prone), how do they do it in a way that is not massively confusing to the average guest, who can't figure out why they were allowed to carry two selections all day, but now they are suddenly restricted back to one?
> 
> Does anyone know how this worked with MaxPass?


With MaxPass, the rebooking time limit was from the time of the most recently booked FP that you made (not the FP return time, but the clock time that you actually booked the FP at), not from the one you were currently using.  So if you booked one way out (say 6pm return time) at 10am (your booking time), your next one was able to be booked 90 minutes after 10 am (your booking time).  You kept booking from there (90 minutes from booking time or after you used the FP).  That 6pm FP was just hanging out there.  The only way the 6pm FP impacted things, as I recall *and it is somewhat faint memory here* was that you could not book another FP for that same ride while holding the FP for it at 6pm.  But the time block until the next booking was keyed off of the time your most recently booked FP was booked, not the return time.  I hope I am remembering that correctly!


----------



## wp4lf189

My apologies if this the wrong forum for this question…but when playing with the Genie it is only recognizing 1 day out of 4 as having a park reservation when I am trying set up my trip. My park reservation is on the day/date, my dining too and says good to go but I can’t edit or make any selections. Anyone else experienced this?


----------



## wideboty2000

How is rider swap being handled????


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

wideboty2000 said:


> How is rider swap being handled????


As a follow-up to this, how are 2 year olds and under being handled?  I’m assuming they ride free with adults since they don’t have tickets just like they did with fastpass?


----------



## fumanchu2488

DavidNYC said:


> We don't fail to recognize that at all.  What you fail to recognize is what happens when companies lose a carefully developed reputation and start being seen as someone who only cares about their bottom line and not their customers.   Most companies like this try to work their asses off to get a reputation of being a company that continually innovates to offer their customers more.  Disney has crossed a huge line here based on the feedback their getting from people who have been devoted to them for decades - that should be a warning shot to them.


Personally, I think both of you are wrong.  As someone here right now using it, I do find value in it.  I do not come here multiple times a year so spending an extra $75/ day for my family to enjoy almost all the rides we want while removing stress is a value to me and something I am more than happy to pay for.  While the FP+ system was good, I took issue with the fact that it required me to plan entire days months in advance.  I have found this system to be much more flexible.  I could have went to any park today and had the same opportunity as anyone else willing to pay the money the day of.


----------



## wisblue

AnnaKristoff2013 said:


> Would really like this information because this is the boat I am in.  I have an AP, my wife and kids have regular tickets.  I am concerned we won’t be able to make G+ selections together which will make life very difficult.  I’m almost considering upgrading them to AP’s just to avoid this issue.



See my post #5202 on p.261 of this thread that discusses it in more detail.


----------



## fumanchu2488

wideboty2000 said:


> How is rider swap being handled????


 To answer both, rider swap is just like it always was and 2 YO and under are included.  We did SDD with our group (3 YO and 16 months) and my wife and son went first using LL then me and my son went after using LL.


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

wisblue said:


> But, I was told by a CM in a chat today that, if all 4 of us purchase G+, we will then be treated as one group as we make G+LL attractions. I hope she was right.


I’d sure love someone who’s actually in this situation to post here and confirm that they’ve actually experienced this.  This is a huge deal.


----------



## leeniewdw

2 questions:

1) I understand the park hopper 2pm+ LL selections for G+, but am I correct that you don't have to preselect the park to which you are going to hop like another park reservation?  Meaning if I do a ILL$ selection for my park reservation in the morning, there is no other hoop to jump thru if I pick a G+/LL for a different park for post 2pm?

2)  For our arrival day, we have a park hopper pass, but won't arrive before 2pm.   In order to be able to select afternoon G+LL slots, I will need to select a different park than we plan to visit for that day.  I presume if we don't actually tap into the "park reservation" park, there will be no issues?  That's the only way I can think to reserve some LLs before we get on our flight.   IOW, if I want to select DHS LL for our arrival day after 2pm before we board our flight, I need to select one of the other 3 parks as our "reservation" for that day?


----------



## fla4fun

Disturbia said:


> Genie+ should be first pass at park open like maxpass.  I don’t want my app to crash and I can’t even see waits; have you tried wifi in the buses?  Has anything improved since June?


I was at MK on Oct 1, when the wifi in park had a big meltdown.  The only place I could get a reliable signal that day, other than at my resort, was on the buses.  I don’t know if every bus is good, but the ones I was on over that four day period, were good.

Have there been any wifi issues reported since Genie started yesterday?


----------



## Jrb1979

Disturbia said:


> Yes it’s non Refundable officially; unofficially it probably depends; Deni was able to get it but that’s a lot of time wasted waiting in line
> 
> https://www.wdwinfo.com/walt-disney...fund-possible-when-an-attraction-breaks-down/


From what others have posted you get a Disney gift card equal to what the cost was. They don't refund your card.


----------



## katyringo

fumanchu2488 said:


> Personally, I think both of you are wrong.  As someone here right now using it, I do find value in it.  I do not come here multiple times a year so spending an extra $75/ day for my family to enjoy almost all the rides we want while removing stress is a value to me and something I am more than happy to pay for.  While the FP+ system was good, I took issue with the fact that it required me to plan entire days months in advance.  I have found this system to be much more flexible.  I could have went to any park today and had the same opportunity as anyone else willing to pay the money the day of.


This. I get to come once a year. I'll pay for it every time..


----------



## fla4fun

AnnaKristoff2013 said:


> You’d probably win a credit card chargeback in this scenario.   That’s what I’d do if the only alternative was 6 hours on hold trying to get through to Disney.


Two caveats . . .

One, I have read some posts where people are planning to use gift cards, especially when multiple families are pooling money so they can book everything as a single group.  A CC chargeback would not apply in that case, so something to keep in mind.  

Two, is there a Terms and Conditions page you have to acknowledge when making the purchase?  If so, read it carefully.  I used to handle the cc disputes for our company and we never lost a case when the issue being disputed was addressed in the T&C and we had proof the customer was aware of the T&C before they purchased.  If the T&C says no refunds, and does not specifically say they have to provide a service for your money, it’s going to be harder to fight.

I am not saying a guest shouldn’t fight a charge when they didn’t get what they paid for, but it’s important to know what you agreed to at the time of purchase so you can specify the reason their T&C doesn’t apply in your case.  So many people get in a hurry and just click through without reading, but it can save you a lot of aggravation.  It may take time for the dispute to be resolved in your favor, and it may not be a slam dunk, even though it seems like it should be.  I miss the days when we could count on Disney doing right by their guests.


----------



## wisblue

wp4lf189 said:


> My apologies if this the wrong forum for this question…but when playing with the Genie it is only recognizing 1 day out of 4 as having a park reservation when I am trying set up my trip. My park reservation is on the day/date, my dining too and says good to go but I can’t edit or make any selections. Anyone else experienced this?



I‘ve been seeing something similar to this.

As long as all of our tickets and park reservations show under “My Plans” I’m not going to worry about it, at least for now. I’m not sure if the Genie app is able to handle more than one day, especially future dates.


----------



## DisneyFive

leeniewdw said:


> 2 questions:
> 
> 2)  For our arrival day, we have a park hopper pass, but won't arrive before 2pm.   In order to be able to select afternoon G+LL slots, I will need to select a different park than we plan to visit for that day. * I presume if we don't actually tap into the "park reservation" park, there will be no issues?  *That's the only way I can think to reserve some LLs before we get on our flight.   IOW, if I want to select DHS LL for our arrival day after 2pm before we board our flight, I need to select one of the other 3 parks as our "reservation" for that day?


Pretty sure you need to tap into your reserved park before hopping.  I think that’s the way it’s worked for a while now with the park reservation system and hoppers.  Can others confirm?

Dan


----------



## JETSDAD

Future Plans was added which links to the old My Plans page.


----------



## DavidNYC

fumanchu2488 said:


> While the FP+ system was good, I took issue with the fact that it required me to plan entire days months in advance.



I've never understood this comment.   You had to pick three rides that you wanted to ride.  You literally had to plan about 30 minutes of your day between 30-60 days in advance.   Not your entire day by any stretch of the imagination.  Are you really telling me that when you go to Magic Kingdom you couldn't thing of three rides you wanted to do?  And not only that - you could modify them.  

Now however, you have to plan what park you want to go to months in advance.  And you have to be up at 7am if you want to book your choice of ride.  Before, when I planned - I was done.  Now you have to continually look for your next ride and plan your day around what time it give you.  And don't bother to say "well - you don't have to do that".  Because you didn't have to do it before anyway.  And don't try the "well - the best rides were taken".  Well - now you have to pay extra for them and the ones you can get you could get easily under FP+.

The only thing it does that I think has value to many is that they can purchase two of the top rides and not have to worry about them selling out.  But your primary argument about having to plan your entire day under FP+ is really just nonsense.


----------



## wisblue

AnnaKristoff2013 said:


> I’d sure love someone who’s actually in this situation to post here and confirm that they’ve actually experienced this.  This is a huge deal.


When is your trip?

Our first park day will be November 14 so I will find out what happens then.


----------



## kwdw

Reading all this stuff today, just no……  So grateful I don’t have a trip planned right now.  This whole change is not designed for me…..the person who has the goal of NOT using her phone the whole day on vacation and wants her basic plan in advance.  Sigh.


----------



## wideboty2000

fumanchu2488 said:


> To answer both, rider swap is just like it always was and 2 YO and under are included.  We did SDD with our group (3 YO and 16 months) and my wife and son went first using LL then me and my son went after using LL.




Great so if I pay for 3 lightning lanes a la carte than my 5 year old daughter will get to ride twice?  Once with me and once with wife?


----------



## fumanchu2488

DavidNYC said:


> I've never understood this comment.   You had to pick three rides that you wanted to ride.  You literally had to plan about 30 minutes of your day between 30-60 days in advance.   Not your entire day by any stretch of the imagination.  Are you really telling me that when you go to Magic Kingdom you couldn't thing of three rides you wanted to do?  And not only that - you could modify them.
> 
> Now however, you have to plan what park you want to go to months in advance.  And you have to be up at 7am if you want to book your choice of ride.  Before, when I planned - I was done.  Now you have to continually look for your next ride and plan your day around what time it give you.  And don't bother to say "well - you don't have to do that".  Because you didn't have to do it before anyway.  And don't try the "well - the best rides were taken".  Well - now you have to pay extra for them and the ones you can get you could get easily under FP+.
> 
> The only thing it does that I think has value to many is that they can purchase two of the top rides and not have to worry about them selling out.  But your primary argument about having to plan your entire day under FP+ is really just nonsense.


Hopefully this helps.  On this trip I am currently on I booked theme park reservations over the summer.  60 days out I tried to get a Topolinos reservation for breakfast and couldn’t get it.  I wanted it on my EPCOT day since the park doesn’t open until 10, which was originally Wednesday.  I stalked it and was able to get a reservation for Tuesday which was my AK day.  So I just switched theme park days, no big deal.  If I had 6 FP booked those days I would have been stuck.


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

DisneyFive said:


> Pretty sure you need to tap into your reserved park before hopping.  I think that’s the way it’s worked for a while now with the park reservation system and hoppers.  Can others confirm?
> 
> Dan


That is correct.  You must tap into your reserved park before hopping to another.


----------



## fumanchu2488

wideboty2000 said:


> Great so if I pay for 3 lightning lanes a la carte than my 5 year old daughter will get to ride twice?  Once with me and once with wife?


Not sure your party but for us my son got to go twice.  You will need the ILL for whoever is riding but they will get to go with both.


----------



## riogirl84

My head is spinning with the new genie and lightening lane… I’ve read how to articles etc and still cannot wrap my head around it! So my questions are
If I do not purchase anything will I get on rides without waiting longer than normal hours?!?
If genie plus is purchased what exactly will I get from that? I understand that it only allows access to buy lightening lane? Im soo confused and leaving next week and this is ruining my vacation already! Help! Thanks


----------



## Grasshopper2016

twodogs said:


> With MaxPass, the rebooking time limit was from the time of the most recently booked FP that you made (not the FP return time, but the clock time that you actually booked the FP at), not from the one you were currently using. So if you booked one way out (say 6pm return time) at 10am (your booking time), your next one was able to be booked 90 minutes after 10 am (your booking time). You kept booking from there (90 minutes from booking time or after you used the FP). That 6pm FP was just hanging out there. The only way the 6pm FP impacted things, as I recall *and it is somewhat faint memory here* was that you could not book another FP for that same ride while holding the FP for it at 6pm. But the time block until the next booking was keyed off of the time your most recently booked FP was booked, not the return time. I hope I am remembering that correctly!


Thanks.  This is very helpful.   But just to play this out . . .   Let’s imagine that, at 7:00 am, I get a LL return time for SDD for 12:30-1:30.  Then, at 11:00 am, I get a second LL, this time for MFSR for 3:00-4:00.   At 12:30, I scan in to SDD.   Which is now true? (A) I can grab another LL right away. (B) I can grab another LL at 2:30 (120 minutes later). (C)  I cannot grab another LL until I scan in to MFSR at 3:00.


----------



## TinkerPan

lostprincess_danie said:


> My question got lost in the shuffle earlier today. Can somebody help me out?


You wrote:  
Note, I do not have tickets for today but am playing around with the app. (1) On the tip board, is there any way to sort by next available LL time or is it only alphabetical attraction name order?
(2) Or sort by standby time in the tip board.
I know this option can still be done by viewing the map, then selecting view list, but not very convenient to back out of genie if I just want to see the lower waits. 

Answer:  I am not in the park today either.  However, I read that if you do My plans and select your favorite attractions in My Plans they will populate on top of the attraction list for wait times.  That is not exactly what you were asking, but it might be helpful.  Hopefully someone else can verify.


----------



## wp4lf189

wisblue said:


> I‘ve been seeing something similar to this.
> 
> 
> Grasshopper2016 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks.  This is very helpful.   But just to play this out . . .   Let’s imagine that, at 7:00 am, I get a LL return time for SDD for 12:30-1:30.  Then, at 11:00 am, I get a second LL, this time for MFSR for 3:00-4:00.   At 12:30, I scan in to SDD.   Which is now true? (A) I can grab another LL right away. (B) I can grab another LL at 2:30 (120 minutes later). (C)  I cannot grab another LL until I scan in to MFSR at 3:00.
> 
> 
> 
> I’m not either but just wondering ironically I try on my Samsung as opposed iPhone  and it was all good,
> 
> As long as all of our tickets and park reservations show under “My Plans” I’m not going to worry about it, at least for now. I’m not sure if the Genie app is able to handle more than one day, especially future dates.
Click to expand...


----------



## Mrs~Incredible

JETSDAD said:


> Future Plans was added which links to the old My Plans page.
> View attachment 614969


Oh thank the maker (C3PO voice). I hated to toggle through each individual day on the new interface. I like seeing all of my plans on one page that I can just scroll through. Thanks for posting this.


----------



## DisneyCowgirl

Is every thread about genie being merged into this one? If so, why? This thread is too long to be helpful already.


----------



## Sjm9911

Its like an SAT test, lol.


----------



## Sjm9911

Grasshopper2016 said:


> Thanks.  This is very helpful.   But just to play this out . . .   Let’s imagine that, at 7:00 am, I get a LL return time for SDD for 12:30-1:30.  Then, at 11:00 am, I get a second LL, this time for MFSR for 3:00-4:00.   At 12:30, I scan in to SDD.   Which is now true? (A) I can grab another LL right away. (B) I can grab another LL at 2:30 (120 minutes later). (C)  I cannot grab another LL until I scan in to MFSR at 3:00.


Its like an SAT test, lol.


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

Grasshopper2016 said:


> Thanks.  This is very helpful.   But just to play this out . . .   Let’s imagine that, at 7:00 am, I get a LL return time for SDD for 12:30-1:30.  Then, at 11:00 am, I get a second LL, this time for MFSR for 3:00-4:00.   At 12:30, I scan in to SDD.   Which is now true? (A) I can grab another LL right away. (B) I can grab another LL at 2:30 (120 minutes later). (C)  I cannot grab another LL until I scan in to MFSR at 3:00.


I believe A


----------



## disneylover102

Ok can someone there confirm for sure whether or not you can get multiple LLs for an attraction or not? Someone in a DL thread said their friend at WDW said you can get multiple LLs for the same attraction but that contradicts everything I’ve heard up to this point


----------



## soniam

riogirl84 said:


> My head is spinning with the new genie and lightening lane… I’ve read how to articles etc and still cannot wrap my head around it! So my questions are
> If I do not purchase anything will I get on rides without waiting longer than normal hours?!?



No. If you do not purchase Genie+ or individual attractions, you will use the regular standby line.



riogirl84 said:


> If genie plus is purchased what exactly will I get from that? I understand that it only allows access to buy lightening lane? Im soo confused and leaving next week and this is ruining my vacation already! Help! Thanks



Genie+ is similar to paper Fastpass or Maxpass at Disneyland. You purchase it day of and pick your attractions day of. The next available time will be given to you for a particular attraction. The Lightning Lane is the old Fastpass lane. You will not be guaranteed any access to attractions; however, the early you pick attractions, the better your chance. 1 at a time, except if the one you get is more then 2 hours out.


----------



## Disneylover99

fumanchu2488 said:


> Hopefully this helps.  On this trip I am currently on I booked theme park reservations over the summer.  60 days out I tried to get a Topolinos reservation for breakfast and couldn’t get it.  I wanted it on my EPCOT day since the park doesn’t open until 10, which was originally Wednesday.  I stalked it and was able to get a reservation for Tuesday which was my AK day.  So I just switched theme park days, no big deal. * If I had 6 FP booked those days I would have been stuck.*


Pointless to debate it now, I know, but you could have just changed those FP's day of. I say this because it was the story of my life. I always booked my fp's 60 days out, and then my family woke up each day of the trip wanting to go to a different park. lol. We still managed to get good fp's at decent times.


----------



## dmunsil

Grasshopper2016 said:


> Thanks.  This is very helpful.   But just to play this out . . .   Let’s imagine that, at 7:00 am, I get a LL return time for SDD for 12:30-1:30.  Then, at 11:00 am, I get a second LL, this time for MFSR for 3:00-4:00.   At 12:30, I scan in to SDD.   Which is now true? (A) I can grab another LL right away. (B) I can grab another LL at 2:30 (120 minutes later). (C)  I cannot grab another LL until I scan in to MFSR at 3:00.



I can think of another possibility: (D) you can get another at 1:00 (120 minutes after you got your most recent one).

That said, Seth Kubersky says his tests say the answer is A. This makes a sort of sense - the basic rule is, once you scan into a ride, you can get a new reservation, no matter when you made your previous reservation. Simple, easy to understand.


----------



## MomEadon

I think I have a handle on G+ now thanks to you all, thank you for all the info. I learned a lot. As someone who goes every 1-2 years, I think I am going to like this way of doing things. I think it will allow us to enjoy all the other things the parks have to offer (“stop and smell the roses” if you will) while getting to our LL rides and making the next then.


----------



## 3gr8boys

Moved.


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

wisblue said:


> When is your trip?
> 
> Our first park day will be November 14 so I will find out what happens then.


Christmas week, god help me lol.  Eagerly awaiting your trip report!


----------



## fly girl

DavidNYC said:


> I've never understood this comment.   You had to pick three rides that you wanted to ride.  You literally had to plan about 30 minutes of your day between 30-60 days in advance.   Not your entire day by any stretch of the imagination.  Are you really telling me that when you go to Magic Kingdom you couldn't thing of three rides you wanted to do?  And not only that - you could modify them.
> 
> Now however, you have to plan what park you want to go to months in advance.  And you have to be up at 7am if you want to book your choice of ride.  Before, when I planned - I was done.  Now you have to continually look for your next ride and plan your day around what time it give you.  And don't bother to say "well - you don't have to do that".  Because you didn't have to do it before anyway.  And don't try the "well - the best rides were taken".  Well - now you have to pay extra for them and the ones you can get you could get easily under FP+.
> 
> The only thing it does that I think has value to many is that they can purchase two of the top rides and not have to worry about them selling out.  But your primary argument about having to plan your entire day under FP+ is really just nonsense.



I'll tell you why I wasn't a fan of the 3 FP+'s. We are last minute trip goers. We don't work banker hours, and schedules come out monthly.  We would see we had 4 days to take a quick trip down 3 weeks out and we would go. But there we were as onsite guests without FOP, SDD, SDMT, and FEA because we couldn't utilize the 60 days out time range. It is what it is, and we rolled with it - stalking FP's and we would score them with persistence (except FOP the month it came out, no luck)  Same with restaurants. I was elated when TP had their reservation finder.



Grasshopper2016 said:


> Thanks.  This is very helpful.   But just to play this out . . .   Let’s imagine that, at 7:00 am, I get a LL return time for SDD for 12:30-1:30.  Then, at 11:00 am, I get a second LL, this time for MFSR for 3:00-4:00.   At 12:30, I scan in to SDD.   Which is now true? (A) I can grab another LL right away. (B) I can grab another LL at 2:30 (120 minutes later). (C)  I cannot grab another LL until I scan in to MFSR at 3:00.



99.99% sure it is A. Soon as you scan into SDD at 12:30 (someone on here said after second scan) you can book your next G+ attraction. 



disneylover102 said:


> Ok can someone there confirm for sure whether or not you can get multiple LLs for an attraction or not? Someone in a DL thread said their friend at WDW said you can get multiple LLs for the same attraction but that contradicts everything I’ve heard up to this point



I saw a vlogger try it at MK yesterday for Peter Pan. It showed up on his screen but when he clicked it it said rider has maxed out on LL for this attraction.


----------



## 3gr8boys

riogirl84 said:


> My head is spinning with the new genie and lightening lane… I’ve read how to articles etc and still cannot wrap my head around it! So my questions are
> If I do not purchase anything will I get on rides without waiting longer than normal hours?!?
> If genie plus is purchased what exactly will I get from that? I understand that it only allows access to buy lightening lane? Im soo confused and leaving next week and this is ruining my vacation already! Help! Thanks





Paying $15 for "Genie+" for the day allows you to use the app to reserve time windows to go through the "Lightning Lane" instead of the regular lines.  (There are restrictions  on how/when you reserve these time windows that you will want to study.) Once you pay for "Genie+" for the day, there are no additional charges for the rides that are part of the "Genie+" program.

At each park there are two rides that you can pay to reserve a time to ride using the ride's  "Lightning Lane" instead of the regular line. These pay-per-ride selections are not part of "Genie+" and are called "Individual  Lightning  Lane." You can buy "Individual  Lightning  Lane" access without having "Genie+."  There are limits to when and how many you can buy (2, I think) daily.

All of this is done through the "Genie" app, available to everyone.

I hope that helps.... sometimes the blog reports and articles contain so much great detail that the foundation information  gets muddled.


----------



## SMF_mom23

Grumpy by Birth said:


> I could have been more clear in what I meant.
> 
> As Wisblue said, I didn't mean to indicate that the LL bypasses/leaves out some of the experience.  But if elements are not working, you would miss out on them.
> 
> I understand that they can't control when something isn't working.  But my point is that people are going to be more willing to accept missing one of those elements if they didn't pay extra for expedited access.
> 
> If people have paid extra, they are going to be extra unhappy if part of the ride is skipped because it's not working during your ILL$ window.



I would be WAY more understanding if an AA or something else mechanical isn't quite working right resulting in missing part of the ride experience.  Skipping the pre-show is not acceptable when people are paying extra for the entirety of the experience.  If you're not running a third of what riders normally experience when they DON'T pay extra, maybe discount/refund a third of the price.  I realize that's not realistic, but charging the same amount when you're giving someone less than the whole is not good business and borders on shady, imo.


----------



## Zippa D Doodah

My wife and I used Genie+ at MK today. I have mixed feelings. First, we were satisfied that we got our money’s worth. We arrived at the park fashionably late (10am) and decided after arrival to give it a try. We used it for 9 attractions, and it saved a lot of time at each. The negatives: you can’t use it to repeat attractions; we couldn’t manage to work in Jungle Cruise; the MDE app was a little fluky in that I would have to open and close it a few times to bring up G+.

Headed to Studios and AK tomorrow. We will probably buy G+ to see how it performs there


----------



## CWTC

fly girl said:


> Soon as you scan into SDD at 12:30 (someone on here said after second scan) you can book your next G+ attraction.


If a ride has two touch points, you have to have tapped into the second one.  Experienced this yesterday at TSMM and tonight at HM.


----------



## Disturbia

DavidNYC said:


> I was just having this conversation on another thread.  It seems that you can in fact make regular LL reservations in your 2nd park for post 2pm even if the distribution time  hasn't reached that for people who started off in that park with their reservation.  I was very surprised that it worked that way and curious if that was what they intended.  (I'm still so skeptical that it really worked that way that I keep looking for more first hand accounts).  It seems a big loophole  . . . and one that definitely lends itself to some good touring strategies.


When you apply the 120 min rule from park opening, you can’t get a Genie+ selection until 11 am if park opened at 9 am.  So if you were planning to standby 9-11 am, then I guess it’s not that bad.


----------



## Disturbia

wp4lf189 said:


> My apologies if this the wrong forum for this question…but when playing with the Genie it is only recognizing 1 day out of 4 as having a park reservation when I am trying set up my trip. My park reservation is on the day/date, my dining too and says good to go but I can’t edit or make any selections. Anyone else experienced this?


You can go to future plans and see if your park reservations are showing up.  It’s the old ‘my plans’ page

edit:  I’m like 2 pages behind continuously


----------



## MJJME

Marionnette said:


> I just finished watching blogs by PCDev, Paging Mr. Morrow, Kyle Pallone and I rewatched the Touring Plans video.
> 
> The general feeling was that IL$ was worthwhile for the vacationer but local APs probably won't use them. PCDev showed a LL queu for ROTR from yesterday that went on forever due to the ride breaking down several times. Imagine paying $15 per person (to be able to skip the 2-hr standby line) and you end up standing in a LL queue that is almost as long! BTW, the standby line for ROTR was closed once it reached 2 hours and guests could not join standby. All the live bloggers were surprised to learn that the ILL$ were limited to 2 per day total and not per park. They all felt that this was a flawed limitation because they could see that ILL$ were available but they could not purchase them
> 
> As for Genie+, they all pretty much felt it was not worth purchasing. But keep in mind that this comes from the perspective of individuals who are in the parks regularly and are less likely to want to ride lower-tier attractions. All of the live bloggers were not attempting to stack reservations. They were choosing the return times for attractions they prefer, were not refreshing to see if better times were available and were not attempting to minimize their overall wait times. None of them combined ILL$, G+ and standby. They were only doing ILL$ and G+.
> 
> For G+, tapping in around 5 minutes early worked. Mr. Morrow was 14 minutes late for Soaring and Mickey still turned green when he tapped in.
> 
> If you skip a G+ reservation and you're well past your return window, it counts as your one G+ for that attraction. You can cancel before your return window opens and still be able to get a G+ for that attraction later but once the window opens, you're SOL.
> 
> I'm still watching a few other videos. I'm still on the fence about spending for either G+ or ILL$ on our next trip. Partly because I have a great distaste for the nickle and dime approach and partly because I just don't feel it's worth it since we will have an infant in tow. On top of that my MDE app throws an error when I'm signed in and won't allow me to purchase ILL$ but I can buy them for myself if I'm signed in under my husband's account. Go figure that one! It's just not worth my time to try to get Disney IT to fix it.


This is an excellent value added and unique recap.  I do appreciate it.  The bloggers know what they are taking about.  I have a feeling G+ is going to be a massive dud by this time next year (or maybe sooner)


----------



## DavidNYC

fumanchu2488 said:


> Hopefully this helps.  On this trip I am currently on I booked theme park reservations over the summer.  60 days out I tried to get a Topolinos reservation for breakfast and couldn’t get it.  I wanted it on my EPCOT day since the park doesn’t open until 10, which was originally Wednesday.  I stalked it and was able to get a reservation for Tuesday which was my AK day.  So I just switched theme park days, no big deal.  If I had 6 FP booked those days I would have been stuck.


That doesn’t counter anything I said about the having to plan your WHOLE day being bull.  You also got lucky that you were able to switch park reservations.  You easily could have been stuck there.  And if you valued the restaurant over the rides - you simple take 10 minites to reschedule them. (“But the popular rides won’t be available”… well they’re not available now because you have to pay for them.


----------



## cfw213

dmunsil said:


> I can think of another possibility: (D) you can get another at 1:00 (120 minutes after you got your most recent one).
> 
> That said, Seth Kubersky says his tests say the answer is A. This makes a sort of sense - the basic rule is, once you scan into a ride, you can get a new reservation, no matter when you made your previous reservation. Simple, easy to understand.


So then if you can get 2 by stacking you can simultaneously hold 2 all day by essentially leap frogging them? That would surprise me.


----------



## MJJME

wisblue said:


> The problem with an hour before opening would be that a lot of people planning to be there at opening would be in transit.
> 
> I was thinking about that for DAK where we will want to be at the park by 7:30 for the Early Entry.  If I want to make any LL reservations at 7 AM that day it would have to be on the bus or after we arrive at the park.
> 
> Midnight wouldn’t be popular with people (like us)  who want to be asleep by then because they plan to be up early to get to a park at rope drop.


What about 9pm the night before?  Or 8pm? Or 7pm?  What is preventing WDW from doing any of those times?  

 Anyone have a good answer?


----------



## Disturbia

DisneyFive said:


> Pretty sure you need to tap into your reserved park before hopping.  I think that’s the way it’s worked for a while now with the park reservation system and hoppers.  Can others confirm?
> 
> Dan


Except for travel day; you can choose not to hop, so Epcot reservations are ok and you can try for the 7 am Boarding Group…assuming Epcot is your travel day park


----------



## Disturbia

fumanchu2488 said:


> Not sure your party but for us my son got to go twice.  You will need the ILL for whoever is riding but they will get to go with both.


Rider switch policy changed to allow only one child back with the parent; not 2 (few months ago).


----------



## Jrb1979

MJJME said:


> This is an excellent value added and unique recap.  I do appreciate it.  The bloggers know what they are taking about.  I have a feeling G+ is going to be a massive dud by this time next year (or maybe sooner)


Disagree. It's going to be a massive success. It's not meant for AP holders. The people that only go once or twice every few years will most likely buy it. FP+ is dead and it's not coming back. People's best bet is learn to deal with the system in place.


----------



## Disturbia

riogirl84 said:


> My head is spinning with the new genie and lightening lane… I’ve read how to articles etc and still cannot wrap my head around it! So my questions are
> If I do not purchase anything will I get on rides without waiting longer than normal hours?!?
> If genie plus is purchased what exactly will I get from that? I understand that it only allows access to buy lightening lane? Im soo confused and leaving next week and this is ruining my vacation already! Help! Thanks


I would watch some YouTube videos.  Kyle Pallo, Allears and paging Mr Morrow.  They walk you through the steps.

$15 Genie+ is like your 4th rolling fast pass and it generally covers most rides except for the 2 most popular - booking starts at 7 am.  Can’t ride same attraction twice

$7-15 Lightning Lane individual attractions are the 2 most popular in each park and are like booking your 2 fast passes and you choose the time.  If you’re staying on property you book at 7 am; otherwise it’s whenever the park opens.  Max of 2 per day even if park hopping (you can choose 1 in each park or both in one park); can’t ride twice except Remy if you got a BG


----------



## dmunsil

cfw213 said:


> So then if you can get 2 by stacking you can simultaneously hold 2 all day by essentially leap frogging them? That would surprise me.


That does seem to be the implication. That said, to get to that point you have to wait 2 hours early in the day, so by the time you’ve got your double stack going many of the best selections may be gone, or for many hours in the future. But there may be a clever strategy lurking here to get more LL reservations by deliberately getting something 2+ hours away as early as possible…


----------



## wisblue

MJJME said:


> What about 9pm the night before?  Or 8pm? Or 7pm?  What is preventing WDW from doing any of those times?
> 
> Anyone have a good answer?



If there’s going to be a rush on the system I wouldn’t think they would want it to be while the parks are open.

As a user I wouldn‘t want to have to take a break from what I’m doing today to make arrangements for tomorrow.

There were discussions just like this a few years ago about when the window opened to make FP+ reservations. All those proved is that you’re never going to satisfy everybody.


----------



## Disturbia

People are finding value in using it; unless the ride broke down of course 

https://www.disboards.com/threads/genie-usage-poll.3856881/


----------



## wisblue

MJJME said:


> Exactly the person they are Targeting.  You spent $175 (if you got genie+ and 2 IAS) of flexibility to save about an hour.  Disney has won the marketing war with you.
> 
> and you probably had to wake up at least an hour earlier than you used to to book that first genie+ attraction so net net, you lost time and money
> 
> But hey, Disney has you thinking you won!   They are laughing all the way to the bank.
> 
> hahahahahahahaha



If someone gets two IALL and Genie+ they’re saving a lot more than an hour that they would have to spend in line to experience the same attractions (if they could do all of them at all.)

And, based on the number of people in line to enter the parks at 8 AM and earlier there are A LOT of people up at 7 AM and earlier to get there. There are a lot people up before 7 AM almost every day of their lives to get ready for work or school or to take care of kids. Taking about 2 minutes at 7 AM to make a couple of LL selections is not going to be a big deal for them.

It‘s not a matter of ”winning” anything.


----------



## RamblingMad

MJJME said:


> Exactly the person they are Targeting.  You spent $175 (if you got genie+ and 2 IAS) of flexibility to save about an hour.  Disney has won the marketing war with you.
> 
> and you probably had to wake up at least an hour earlier than you used to to book that first genie+ attraction so net net, you lost time and money
> 
> But hey, Disney has you thinking you won!   They are laughing all the way to the bank.
> 
> hahahahahahahaha



You're forgetting about the melt downs when the phone battery dies.


----------



## twodogs

DavidNYC said:


> We don't fail to recognize that at all.  What you fail to recognize is what happens when companies lose a carefully developed reputation and start being seen as someone who only cares about their bottom line and not their customers.   Most companies like this try to work their asses off to get a reputation of being a company that continually innovates to offer their customers more.  Disney has crossed a huge line here based on the feedback their getting from people who have been devoted to them for decades - that should be a warning shot to them.


I agree that there is a line, but that line is not the same for all consumers.  That is why I said you vote with your wallet, and I’ll vote with mine.  But I don’t think I should tell you where your line is or how to spend your money.  Likewise, I will draw my line and spend my money as it suits me.  If Disney doesn’t suit me, I can spend it elsewhere.  

I am baffled by those who expect everyone on these boards to “see it their way“ and agree with them on things that are, in my opinion, value judgements for individuals.  To me it is clear that this new system does not have enough value to you, and I am not clear why you are continuing to follow this thread if you have already completely determined you do not want to pay for this service?  As you state, an email to Disney corporate expressing your disappointment in their business decisions might be in order and more impactful.


----------



## katyringo

I don't really understand why people have to be rude to those of us who like this change and are more than willing to pay for it.

not for you? Then don't get. Literally. Nothing has changed for you. You can go enjoy the parks like it was October 18,2021 to your hearts content.

But no need to be rude to the rest of us .

I would never pay the cost of the delux resorts and have the after hours.. but that doesn't mean I'm mad at Disney for having them.

there is zero need to be rude.


----------



## Jrb1979

RamblingMad said:


> You're forgetting about the melt downs when the phone battery dies.


That's what fuel rods are for.


----------



## twodogs

As a person who visited WDW and DLR pretty equally, I am interested to hear feedback on G+ from those who were experienced Max Pass users.  I realize that if you had never used MP, then G+ seems very different from FP+.  But to me, it seems quite similar to MP, which we loved.  Can someone with this experience of MP, who has now used G+, share some comments?


----------



## Sjm9911

katyringo said:


> I don't really understand why people have to be rude to those of us who like this change and are more than willing to pay for it.
> 
> not for you? Then don't get. Literally. Nothing has changed for you. You can go enjoy the parks like it was October 18,2021 to your hearts content.
> 
> But no need to be rude to the rest of us .
> 
> I would never pay the cost of the delux resorts and have the after hours.. but that doesn't mean I'm mad at Disney for having them.
> 
> there is zero need to be rude.


Im not rude, I dont like the change and the money I spent on it. I also dont want to be left out, so i buy it. Its almost a must as i stated before. Its not rude to not like something. And things do change if you dont get it, you get longer lines. The pass makes the standby longer.


----------



## MJJME

wisblue said:


> If someone gets two IALL and Genie+ they’re saving a lot more than an hour that they would have to spend in line to experience the same attractions (if they could do all of them at all.)
> 
> And, based on the number of people in line to enter the parks at 8 AM and earlier there are A LOT of people up at 7 AM and earlier to get there. There are a lot people up before 7 AM almost every day of their lives to get ready for work or school or to take care of kids. Taking about 2 minutes at 7 AM to make a couple of LL selections is not going to be a big deal for them.
> 
> It‘s not a matter of ”winning” anything.


7am for work?  Sure.  It’s work, I get paid to do it. 

dont get up at 7am on vacation ever.   Skiing, beach, Disney, etc. never, especially when I have to pay vs getting paid 

think of it this way. You saved an hour, even 2 in lines. But you woke up 2 hours earlier to book your first ride. You were on your phone all day. You paid $175 for your family of 5.

what was different than the last time you visited MK?  Did you ride different rides?  Did you spend less time in the park from start to finish?

no. You woke up earlier Paid more money. Spent the same amount of time in the park.

look at it for Disney’s perspective. They had the same or less amount of guests. Fewer employees because the parks weren’t open as long. More money because those same people just paid more for the exact same experience.

this is a marketing ploy and it is frustrating that people fall for it.


----------



## Epicnemesis

So I haven’t paid attention to Disney world wait times. For those in the know are you seeing a notable uptick in standing times now that genie plus has launched? That’s my main concern with the program is that they priced it too cheap to the point where the traffic from the genie line will have a dramatic effect on standby.

At least universal’s front of the line pass is expensive enough to be a self limiter on its use and this it’s effect on standby.


----------



## MJJME

Epicnemesis said:


> So I haven’t paid attention to Disney world wait times. For those in the know are you seeing a notable uptick in standing times now that genie plus has launched? That’s my main concern with the program is that they priced it too cheap to the point where the traffic from the genie line will have a dramatic effect on standby.
> 
> At least universal’s front of the line pass is expensive enough to be a self limiter on its use and this it’s effect on standby.


Prob too early to tell because it’s only been 2 days but so far no, standby has been “normal” for these crowd levels.


----------



## ShelsGoingToDisney

Epicnemesis said:


> So I haven’t paid attention to Disney world wait times. For those in the know are you seeing a notable uptick in standing times now that genie plus has launched? That’s my main concern with the program is that they priced it too cheap to the point where the traffic from the genie line will have a dramatic effect on standby.
> 
> At least universal’s front of the line pass is expensive enough to be a self limiter on its use and this it’s effect on standby.


We arrived Saturday with our first park day at HS on Sunday, MK on Monday. We wondered if wait times were being inflated to prepare for the Genie launch so we timed them. They were consistently 20 minutes inflated at HS. At MK they were crazily inflated, Buzz posted as 55 (it was 15 tops), Pirates at posted as 50 (20 actual), Space 50 (really 25)...

Genie launched on Tuesday and we were at Epcot and you couldn't really tell it was even there, we didn't buy. Wait times were just relatively low all around, but posted times were still inflated by at least 20 minutes.

Today, we returned to HS and it was a whole different ballgame from Sunday! We did not plan to buy Genie at all. Wait times were not accurate and actual was at least 5-15 minutes longer than actual for stand-by for us for RotR, Toy Story, MMRR, & RnR. ToT and Smuggler's Run were walk-ons with 20/35 minute posted wait times. After realizing the lines were much longer and being affected by the LL people we wished we had purchased it but by that point, it would have been a waste. We did not get to ride Star Tours or Slinky Dog as we wanted due to running out of time. 

We go back to Epcot tomorrow and won't buy but we're considering buying the LL (I don't think I could ever stomach paying for ILL$) for MK on Friday. Monday was the busiest I've ever been in MK and we didn't get all our rides in so we want to hit them all on Friday. I still am not clear how LL really works and worry it won't be worth the $$. I'll be so angry if we pay $60 for it and only get on a few rides with it. It feels like such a gamble. I would feel differently if it wasn't launched in my week here and I was able to really research it. It feels so ridiculously convoluted though, so for the principle of the matter, I want it to fail so something efficient and simple can replace it. 

I just hate this so much. I so miss the golden days of WDW that were for me 2000-2016. I actually liked the paper fastpasses, if you learned the system you could maximize them. Then add the 3-hour evening extra magic hours (especially for us night owls) and you were gold in those days to ride all the rides and repeats of the favorites. I so mourn the loss of those days.


----------



## mab2012

twodogs said:


> With MaxPass, the rebooking time limit was from the time of the most recently booked FP that you made (not the FP return time, but the clock time that you actually booked the FP at), not from the one you were currently using.  So if you booked one way out (say 6pm return time) at 10am (your booking time), your next one was able to be booked 90 minutes after 10 am (your booking time).  You kept booking from there (90 minutes from booking time or after you used the FP).  That 6pm FP was just hanging out there.  The only way the 6pm FP impacted things, as I recall *and it is somewhat faint memory here* was that you could not book another FP for that same ride while holding the FP for it at 6pm.  But the time block until the next booking was keyed off of the time your most recently booked FP was booked, not the return time.  I hope I am remembering that correctly!



Thanks, this is helpful, and supports what people have been saying so far about the ability to keep booking new selections while still holding a later G+ choice.

What I'm really hoping to understand is what happens when you get close to that 6 pm timeslot, and eventually that "earlier" pass that you've been rebooking all day becomes the later pass, eg. at 7 pm.  When you tap into that original, 6 pm G+ ride, can you immediately rebook another, replacing the one you just used?  And if not, what _exactly_ makes this different from the earlier situation, where you had a later G+ queued (the 6 pm one) but could still replace the stacked G+ (the one you waited 120 minutes for) immediately after using it?

If you _can_ replace that 6 pm G+ immediately, with a later G+ still booked, that suggests that the 120 minute wait creates a "permanent" second G+ slot.  ie. Once you have two, you can always get two (for the rest of the day).  IMO that would create a pretty powerful incentive to deliberately book your first G+ more than 120 minutes after park opening (preferably not much more), and make a specific point of booking a second G+ at the 120 minute mark, before tapping into the first.  Now you're free to keep booking two G+ at a time, all day long.

And if that's not the way it works, I'd love to understand exactly where it breaks.

I'm not sure anyone really knows the answers yet, although people probably did have it figured out with MaxPass, which would be a good start.  Hopefully someone will try it with G+ soon and report back!

ETA: Sorry, hadn't gotten a chance to look at the last few pages of posts before replying.  Looks like there's been a bit of recent discussion on this.


----------



## mab2012

dmunsil said:


> That does seem to be the implication. That said, to get to that point you have to wait 2 hours early in the day, so by the time you’ve got your double stack going many of the best selections may be gone, or for many hours in the future. But there may be a clever strategy lurking here to get more LL reservations by deliberately getting something 2+ hours away as early as possible…



Yes, exactly this.  You can double stack by 11:01 with a 9 am park opening, potentially with two G+ passes by noon.  It's possible that all the good rides are gone by then, but if they are, I'd be questioning the value of getting G+ at all.


----------



## DisneyKidds

DavidNYC said:


> I've never understood this comment.   You had to pick three rides that you wanted to ride.  You literally had to plan about 30 minutes of your day between 30-60 days in advance.   Not your entire day by any stretch of the imagination.  Are you really telling me that when you go to Magic Kingdom you couldn't thing of three rides you wanted to do?  And not only that - you could modify them.
> 
> Now however, you have to plan what park you want to go to months in advance.  And you have to be up at 7am if you want to book your choice of ride.  Before, when I planned - I was done.  Now you have to continually look for your next ride and plan your day around what time it give you.  And don't bother to say "well - you don't have to do that".  Because you didn't have to do it before anyway.  And don't try the "well - the best rides were taken".  Well - now you have to pay extra for them and the ones you can get you could get easily under FP+.
> 
> The only thing it does that I think has value to many is that they can purchase two of the top rides and not have to worry about them selling out.  But your primary argument about having to plan your entire day under FP+ is really just nonsense.


I think we are of a similar mind regarding G+ but I gotta say…..this post baffles me.

For starters, to plan your “30 minutes a day in the MK” 60 days in advance you had to, you know, plan that you were going to be in the MK.  While it wasn’t a park reservation, per se, it was darn near the equivalent.  Ok, so 60 days out you had to decide which parks you’d be in which days to make your FP+ reservations.  Oh, but it wasn’t that simple, no.  Will you be park hopping any of those days?  Better figure that in.  Oh, and then you needed to worry about ADRs before you book those FP+.  Honestly, a lot more went into planning under FP+….pretty much your entire day….than your hyperbole here let’s on.

Don’t get me wrong, I long for FP+ over G+, I think.  Not that it matters a whit.  While G+ will allow you to avoid pre-planning ride times months in advance, you still need to plan your days months in advance to make park reservations and ADRs.  In that regard….the more things change the more they stay the same, as they say.  With FP+ you chose 3 guaranteed rides, in advance, for which you picked your times, then in park FPs, and you had it for free.  Under Genie you can pick your times to guarantee 2 rides, but you do it day of, and you can make other ride reservations starting at 7am day of.  However, it comes with a $40 ($15 G+ plus up to $25 ILL$) per day per person price tag.  That’s a big change.

Oh, and because Disney is ingraining in cast members that monetizing every aspect of the Disney experience is of paramount importance those cast members now tell little kids to go scratch in circumstances where they would otherwise have created a truly Magical moment for the kid in the past.  Disney Magic vs. Disney “Magic”.  That’s a big change, too…..


----------



## Welsh_Dragon

@WebmasterDoc, any mods,  Do you think that you might allow three Genie threads?
1. Personal experiences of using G., G+., and ILL$.
2. Questions and answers about using the new system.
3. For those who wish to debate its merits?
Or something similar?  This thread is too long and jumbled. People are asking valid questions and those questions are being buried in the ether.

Maybe I need a genie to summon the mods? Too soon?


----------



## PaladinButters

Welsh_Dragon said:


> @WebmasterDoc, any mods,  Do you think that you might allow three Genie threads?
> 1. Personal experiences of using G., G+., and ILL$.
> 2. Questions and answers about using the new system.
> 3. For those who wish to debate its merits?
> Or something similar?  This thread is too long and jumbled. People are asking valid questions and those questions are being buried in the ether.
> 
> Maybe I need a genie to summon the mods? Too soon?



Honestly we could use two.  One to talk about the new program and one to complain that it ever happened.  It’s really just a few people in this thread popping up repeatedly that need the second one (although I’m not sure they would be happy if the general public wasn’t hearing about how they don’t like mornings over and over again once being directed elsewhere). Tag me when the mods wake up, maybe we can have a vote.


----------



## fumanchu2488

MJJME said:


> Exactly the person they are Targeting.  You spent $175 (if you got genie+ and 2 IAS) of flexibility to save about an hour.  Disney has won the marketing war with you.
> 
> and you probably had to wake up at least an hour earlier than you used to to book that first genie+ attraction so net net, you lost time and money
> 
> But hey, Disney has you thinking you won!   They are laughing all the way to the bank.
> 
> hahahahahahahaha


I am up before 6 am every single day so 7 am is nothing for me.  And you could not be any more wrong about the time saved.  If you only look at Peter Pan, I will save almost an hour of time for just that attraction. 

Also, for those who think that this is going to be a dud, I think the complete opposite.  This is just going to roll into the cost of a WDW vacation for the yearly visitor.  To be honest,after using it I am a bit more concerned it becomes too popular and they need to raise the price to even things out or everyone with LL will not be able to get rides because there are too many people.


----------



## fumanchu2488

twodogs said:


> As a person who visited WDW and DLR pretty equally, I am interested to hear feedback on G+ from those who were experienced Max Pass users.  I realize that if you had never used MP, then G+ seems very different from FP+.  But to me, it seems quite similar to MP, which we loved.  Can someone with this experience of MP, who has now used G+, share some comments?


I only did MaxPass on my one day visit just before the pandemic.  The biggest difference that I noticed is that DL and DCA make park hopping so much easier that you really have access to all the rides.  Here, even if you were going from HS to EPCOT you would have to budget an hour or more of time so unless you are moving parks for the day there is no back and forth. When I was at DL we could do a MaxPass for Big thunder then book a Guardians the immediate next window and walk over no problem.  Essentially I don’t think that Genie+ would be worth it at AK or at EPCOT because there are so few attractions.  I would probably just get the ILL for the one or two rides I really wanted to do.

I do not know the ins and outs of the system for either so I couldn’t talk details.


----------



## Jonfw2

So I just got here and instead of reading the entire thread, can someone just kind of summarize it for me?


----------



## Juventus

Disturbia said:


> When you apply the 120 min rule from park opening, you can’t get a Genie+ selection until 11 am if park opened at 9 am.  So if you were planning to standby 9-11 am, then I guess it’s not that bad.


At 7:00  if I was starting at MK with a 9:00 openening and choose my first LL for the afternoon at EP that opens at 10:00, when can I choose my 2nd LL: at 11:00 or noon?

Is the 2 hour cool down based on your first parks' opening that you have a park pass for, or on the park opening time of which park you choose your first LL?


----------



## bsmcneil

Jonfw2 said:


> So I just got here and instead of reading the entire thread, can someone just kind of summarize it for me?


 = lots of , some folks feeling, lots of , and is causing many people to


----------



## Welsh_Dragon

Jonfw2 said:


> So I just got here and instead of reading the entire thread, can someone just kind of summarize it for me?


https://touringplans.com/blog/genie-testing-what-we-learned-in-one-day/https://touringplans.com/blog/genie-testing-what-we-learned-in-one-day/https://touringplans.com/blog/genie-testing-what-we-learned-in-one-day/


----------



## bsmcneil

Dis Dragon said:


> Did it surprise anyone that there was tax added to Genie+ and the ILL purchases?
> 
> I'm amazed they didn't absorb it into the price and just passed it on to the guests.  It's already a completely new source of income...


Especially after weeks of talking about the prices (and admittedly, maybe the various places mentioned plus tax but I didn't remember seeing it). I feel like $15 (for G+) is seared into my brain - how hard would it have been to make that inclusive of tax. But I may also just be grumpy, lol


----------



## riogirl84

I already have an existing reservation package but cannot find any link to add genie plus? Help please


----------



## Welsh_Dragon

riogirl84 said:


> I already have an existing reservation package but cannot find any link to add genie plus? Help please


Have you updated MDE?


----------



## elgerber

fly girl said:


> 99.99% sure it is A. Soon as you scan into SDD at 12:30 (someone on here said after second scan) you can book your next G+ attraction.
> 
> 
> 
> I saw a vlogger try it at MK yesterday for Peter Pan. It showed up on his screen but when he clicked it it said rider has maxed out on LL for this attraction.


Yes to both. If there are two taps you have to tap both first. 
I can confirm it will not let you book the same attraction twice.


----------



## Bibbobboo2u

Trying G+ again at MK today despite bad results Tuesday at HWS.  Used 2 phones - one for timing countdown to 7am and other ready to book LL Jungle Cruise.  Tried for 30 seconds before it processed, and we got return time of 10:15.  Blogger on Tuesday started with JC 9:15. ( I believe) LL on JC for comparison.


----------



## LSUfan4444

Juventus said:


> At 7:00 if I was starting at MK with a 9:00 openening and choose my first LL for the afternoon at EP that opens at 10:00, when can I choose my 2nd LL: at 11:00 or noon?



Depends on what park you are trying to book. It would be Noon for Epcot and 11 for MK



> Is the 2 hour cool down based on your first parks' opening that you have a park pass for, or on the park opening time of which park you choose your first LL?


Its for the park you are trying to book in. 2 hours after it opens


----------



## Cedric Rose

Reading these threads is doing my head in.  i’d almost prefer them to take the Universal approach and slug an extra $70-$80 and have an express/fast pass/lightning lane add on that’s unlimited with no restrictions.


----------



## CynBeth

Cedric Rose said:


> Reading these threads is doing my head in.  i’d almost prefer them to take the Universal approach and slug and extra $70-$80 and have an express/fast pass/lightning lane add on that’s unlimited with no restrictions.



I feel the same way.


----------



## CynBeth

We called and had it added.  It did not show up correctly on the website or app for us for a few days.  We thought there was a problem so called and the rep said it could take 24-48 hours and luckily when I checked this morning it shows up the way it should so do not have to call again.


----------



## erionm

riogirl84 said:


> I already have an existing reservation package but cannot find any link to add genie plus? Help please


If you have a package, you have to call to have the tickets modified on that package to include Genie+.  You will have to purchase Genie+ for all days on the ticket if you go that route.


----------



## Marionnette

Cedric Rose said:


> Reading these threads is doing my head in.  i’d almost prefer them to take the Universal approach and slug and extra $70-$80 and have an express/fast pass/lightning lane add on that’s unlimited with no restrictions.


The whole thing is unnecessarily complicated, isn't it? I'm not looking forward to trying to explain it to the newbies we will be traveling with. Their eyes were glazing over when I attempted to explain park reservations, park hopping and ADRs. It's another reason why I think I'm just going to bail on doing anything Genie-related on our trip in December.


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

SMF_mom23 said:


> I would be WAY more understanding if an AA or something else mechanical isn't quite working right resulting in missing part of the ride experience.  Skipping the pre-show is not acceptable when people are paying extra for the entirety of the experience.  If you're not running a third of what riders normally experience when they DON'T pay extra, maybe discount/refund a third of the price.  I realize that's not realistic, but charging the same amount when you're giving someone less than the whole is not good business and borders on shady, imo.


They don't intentionally skip the pre-shows.  They only do that when an element is not working, at least to my understanding.  The alternative is to take the whole ride down, which obviously is not ideal either, especially for those who may be on a 'once in a lifetime' trip and would probably rather get a partial experience than no experience at all.

I would guess that if you pay for ILL$ and part of the ride is down, you could convince guest services to provide a refund (in the form of a gift card, it sounds like).


----------



## wisblue

MJJME said:


> 7am for work?  Sure.  It’s work, I get paid to do it.
> 
> dont get up at 7am on vacation ever.   Skiing, beach, Disney, etc. never, especially when I have to pay vs getting paid
> 
> think of it this way. You saved an hour, even 2 in lines. But you woke up 2 hours earlier to book your first ride. You were on your phone all day. You paid $175 for your family of 5.
> 
> what was different than the last time you visited MK?  Did you ride different rides?  Did you spend less time in the park from start to finish?
> 
> no. You woke up earlier Paid more money. Spent the same amount of time in the park.
> 
> look at it for Disney’s perspective. They had the same or less amount of guests. Fewer employees because the parks weren’t open as long. More money because those same people just paid more for the exact same experience.
> 
> this is a marketing ploy and it is frustrating that people fall for it.



OK. You have made countless posts railing about how much you dislike this system, so I think we all get it. I’m going to respond to this one in detailed points because you’re starting to get into the territory of telling me how I should go about my days and how I should respond to the latest changes Disney has made.

As for getting up at 7 AM, I am up at that time every day. We have always gotten up early at Disney World so we could be at a park at opening and in many cases for Extra Magic Hours, which in some cases started at 7AM. We even were at DHS at 6 AM during that period right after GE opened. So, for me, being up at 7AM to spend 2 minutes making a LL reservation or two is no hardship at all. And I get up and out early for other vacation and recreation events too, like playing golf or getting to a National Park before it gets too crowded. If you’re someone who likes sleeping in fine. But be open minded enough to understand that not everyone shares your lifestyle.

As far as being on my phone all day, I don’t see that happening because of Genie+. After I make our first LL reservation for the day, and maybe one IALL selection, I will only need to look at my phone for things WDW related to (1) check standby wait times to decide where to go next, (2) use mobile order for meals, and (3) make our next LL reservation. The first two of those have nothing to do with Genie+ and the 3rd will only come up a few times a day. I think you are someone who encourages refreshing to try to get preferred LL times. That by itself would  take more phone time than the amount of time I will be spending. I spend more time checking my phone if one of my favorite sports teams is playing while I’m in a park than I do for things related to WDW.

As for the cost, there is no question that WDW costs more than it did years ago. That’s true for many things that I enjoy doing that aren’t free. It doesn’t really matter to me if those increased costs come in the form of increased ticket prices or a la carte charges. I can evaluate costs and make my decisions whether or not I’m willing to pay them. Your suggestion that anyone who continues to go to WDW has been duped by a marketing ploy is, frankly, pretty insulting.

We definitely won’t be spending $35 a day per person on Genie+. There are only 3 of the 8 IALL attractions that I would consider paying for, and those would be no more than once per trip and not every trip. On a longer trip I wouldn’t be getting Genie+ every day either. We can do the attractions we enjoy doing the old fashioned way by getting to the park early and using standby.

Finally, and this one may surprise you, I am not a fan of this new system. That’s less because of the cost, which they could have obtained by increasing admission tickets even more than they already do, than because I liked the FP+ system that let me pick some of our favorite attractions at times that were convenient. A lot of posters on this board hated that too.

I come to this board to get information on how the system works and ideas on how I can best utilize it to make our days in the parks most enjoyable. After we use it a few times I can evaluate whether and how much I like or don’t like it.

Again, I’m not naive enough to think I’m going to change your personal feelings about anything. But, I would encourage you to be open minded enough to understand that not everyone shares your lifestyle and opinions.

Rant over.


----------



## catnik

Welsh_Dragon said:


> @WebmasterDoc, any mods,  Do you think that you might allow three Genie threads?
> 1. Personal experiences of using G., G+., and ILL$.
> 2. Questions and answers about using the new system.
> 3. For those who wish to debate its merits?
> Or something similar?  This thread is too long and jumbled. People are asking valid questions and those questions are being buried in the ether.
> 
> Maybe I need a genie to summon the mods? Too soon?


 Also:
#4: sharing strategies on how to best utilize/max the value of G+ and ILL$. I am done with venting and grieving what was and am ready to move on to master what is


----------



## Biggen

Good luck calling though.  I had one call back yesterday that took them 90 minutes to do.  Found out she couldn't even do it.  Told me I'd have to wait for another callback which I never got.

You don't need to add the Genie+ ahead of time anyway.  You can add it via the MDE app on the day you first go to the parks.


----------



## tony67

Cedric Rose said:


> Reading these threads is doing my head in.  i’d almost prefer them to take the Universal approach and slug and extra $70-$80 and have an express/fast pass/lightning lane add on that’s unlimited with no restrictions.


More like $150 - but yeah - just not sure it would work without a bunch of limits.
Thing is they could probably sell some number of those as well as Genie+ basically giving instant access to all LL rides once and call it Genie++


Ive watched a few folks on youtube and IMO most of them did not have a good Genie+ experience - rides not available till 4 or 5 PM for example at 10AM.

There was one who was thrilled with the system - paying $33 to ride Dinosaur, FOP and EE at AK in around 1.5 hours.
Then went to Epcot to ride Soarin.   
He was also annoyed he could not buy more IA$ at Epcot - Im sort of surprised Disney limited that - but I did know it was two per day.

Thing is he could have road EE Single rider and Dinosaur was a 5 minute wait - so could have saved $22 there and still paid 11 to save the 90 minute wait on FOP.   My question is was FOP really a 90 minute wait?   Also not sure what the wait for Soarin was - but has not been very long recently.
Side note - he was 14 minutes late for Soarin but still got a green light - so probably a 15 minute window

Also picking AK and Epcot for his video  shows G+ in the best light IMO - MK or HS are the best examples of how it will really work.

Currently I'm not sold on G+ as I dont think its providing what we expected - I was really hoping it would let me get through a bunch of rides at MK so I could then park hop, but with all the waiting around between rides Im not sure it will make sense.

As someone else said - wait till the busy holiday season and lets see how it works - its not looking good from what I have seen.


----------



## TheMick424

Can someone explain how you tell Genie+ you intend to park hop?  Is that part of the free Genie service? (meaning, do I have to set that up first)


----------



## MakiraMarlena

the thread is kind of a mix of persons trying to figure out how to use Genie+, interspersed with others who are angry at them for even thinking about using it, because they are angry at Disney for starting it in the first place.

from what I have managed to learn about it, I would use it sporadically. Definitely not every day, and not even every trip. And only at MK or Studios.


----------



## LSUfan4444

TheMick424 said:


> Can someone explain how you tell Genie+ you intend to park hop?  Is that part of the free Genie service? (meaning, do I have to set that up first)


Add the second park you are going to to your Tip Board in MDX


----------



## catnik

wisblue said:


> If someone gets two IALL and Genie+ they’re saving a lot more than an hour that they would have to spend in line to experience the same attractions (if they could do all of them at all.)
> 
> And, based on the number of people in line to enter the parks at 8 AM and earlier there are A LOT of people up at 7 AM and earlier to get there. There are a lot people up before 7 AM almost every day of their lives to get ready for work or school or to take care of kids. Taking about 2 minutes at 7 AM to make a couple of LL selections is not going to be a big deal for them.
> 
> It‘s not a matter of ”winning” anything.


 Totally agree. My real life has enough stress already without worrying about Disney “winning”. They win every time I plan and go on a trip to WDW, don’t they? I win when rhe trip meets my needs: fun, relaxing and a time to reconnect with my family. Win/win still works for me, even if the price tag is more expensive than our last trip


----------



## LSUfan4444

MakiraMarlena said:


> I would use it sporadically. Definitely not every day, and not even every trip. And only at MK or Studios.


What about when rope dropping one park, planning on a mid day break and hopping to AK or Epcot?

You don't think you can find $25 value there for G+ and one ILL?

I guess this is where my mentality of removing ADRs steps in. Lets say I was talking FP days we may have started the day in HS at rope drop then hopped over to AK for lunch at Tiffins and had our FP+ waiting on us. So I am thinking now I can pretty much do the same thing but rather than bus over to AK, walk back to Boardwalk and eat lunch in our villa and still have G+ when we arrive but also have use of at least one G+ that we can book at 11am and maybe a second at 1pm (depending on how long we are there)


----------



## Brocktoon

Go to your My Disney Experience account on the website (not the app).  Under your reservation details, there should be an option to modify the package.  It should then list resort, tickets, etc ...  If you have your tickets linked, you may have the option to 'modify tickets'.  Under that option you may have the ability to change the ticket add-ons and add Genie+.  I haven't modified my tickets yet but checked this morning as was able to if I wanted.


----------



## disneyworldsk

i want to try to use genie+ for park hopping after 2 p.m. for mk. Can someone explain, as a resort guest, how I do that exactly at 7 a.m. 
If I log in and am offered a.m. for my theme park reservation park but i want the second park of my day instead how do i do that?


----------



## snikki

MJJME said:


> What about 9pm the night before?  Or 8pm? Or 7pm?  What is preventing WDW from doing any of those times?
> 
> Anyone have a good answer?



I’m sure Disney did their research and realized a large percentage of guests are up at 7 am. They obviously want this to be a day of system so doing it the night before defeats that purpose. Guests complained of lack of spontaneity and this fits into that.


----------



## snikki

disneyworldsk said:


> i want to try to use genie+ for park hopping after 2 p.m. for mk. Can someone explain, as a resort guest, how I do that exactly at 7 a.m.
> If I log in and am offered a.m. for my theme park reservation park but i want the second park of my day instead how do i do that?



You have to wait for 2 pm and after times for MK rides to come available. You’ll most likely have to wait until later in the day to book MK.


----------



## LSUfan4444

snikki said:


> You have to wait for 2 pm and after times for MK rides to come available. You’ll most likely have to wait until later in the day to book MK.


At 7, if you want to book in the park you plan on hopping to, it shouldn't even give you options to book before 2pm.

Add the 2nd park you plan to hop to on your Tip Board for the day. Then, after logging in change the park (Genie should default to where your reservation is) to where you are hopping to and the time windows should start for when you can hop.


----------



## Wood Nymph

disneyworldsk said:


> i want to try to use genie+ for park hopping after 2 p.m. for mk. Can someone explain, as a resort guest, how I do that exactly at 7 a.m.
> If I log in and am offered a.m. for my theme park reservation park but i want the second park of my day instead how do i do that?


When you open Genie to set up your day there will be an option to tell it that you are going to park hop. When you go to the tab called "My Day", it will list wait times and suggestions for both your parks, with the options for the second park beginning at 2pm. You can book a lightning lane from that list.


----------



## snikki

I have been playing with G+. My trip isn’t until November 2022 but I did make park reservations. When I go go to My Genie Day to to My Day it shows park hours and has Epcot as opening at 9 am and AK closing some days at 9 pm. I’m sure it’s nothing but odd to see.


----------



## emmabelle

this is so confusing.  We are staying on property 12/17-12/22.  It obviously going to be busy.  Do we wait until we're in Disney to upgrade to Genie +?  I'm willing to pay the extra $15 a day but really don't want to do the extra "pay per ride option."  We go to Disney a lot so it really isn't necessary for that, but I would like to get on something.


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

emmabelle said:


> this is so confusing.  We are staying on property 12/17-12/22.  It obviously going to be busy.  Do we wait until we're in Disney to upgrade to Genie +?  I'm willing to pay the extra $15 a day but really don't want to do the extra "pay per ride option."  We go to Disney a lot so it really isn't necessary for that, but I would like to get on something.


If you know for sure you want G+ every day, it doesn't hurt to add it now.  But, if you want to try it first and see how it goes, just add it day by day.  No real advantage either way.


----------



## DisneyKidds

If you are on a Disney vacation package I think you can add it in advance, but it would be for all days and all people in your party.  Other than that you wait until each day, and not everyone in your part has to have it.


----------



## MainMom

Zippa D Doodah said:


> My wife and I used Genie+ at MK today. I have mixed feelings. First, we were satisfied that we got our money’s worth. We arrived at the park fashionably late (10am) and decided after arrival to give it a try. We used it for 9 attractions, and it saved a lot of time at each. The negatives: you can’t use it to repeat attractions; we couldn’t manage to work in Jungle Cruise; the MDE app was a little fluky in that I would have to open and close it a few times to bring up G+.
> 
> Headed to Studios and AK tomorrow. We will probably buy G+ to see how it performs there


Curious as to which rides you used it on and if you were crisscrossing the park a lot. Also, how long were you in MK? Thanks!


----------



## LSUfan4444

if you want to add it in advance you have to change your ticket type. Think of it like adding a park hopper to a standard ticket and like a park hopper, you have to add it to every day, whether you use it or not. The advantage to G+ is you don't have to add it to every day and can just add it each day on the day you want tot use it. Adding it ahead of time commits you to the purchase but you still have to go online each day to add your attractions.

Until they add the ability to pre-add attractions in advance I see no real benefit (to the guest) to adding it to your entire stay in advance. Even if you think you know you will use it every day, alot can happen (weather, new experiences, the platform can change with no notice, etc) so the longer you keep your money and not just commit to giving to Disney the better position it puts you, the guest, in.


----------



## Bama Mom

disneyworldsk said:


> i want to try to use genie+ for park hopping after 2 p.m. for mk. Can someone explain, as a resort guest, how I do that exactly at 7 a.m.
> If I log in and am offered a.m. for my theme park reservation park but i want the second park of my day instead how do i do that?



From my understanding the system is suppose to be smart enough to recognize you are hopping to that second park so it will only generate times after 2:00pm for you to choose. So you would just change the park to your second park and the system will recognize that isn't the park you have reservations for first and as long as you have hopping abilities tied to your tickets it will know to only show times after 2:00.


----------



## PaladinButters

snikki said:


> I have been playing with G+. My trip isn’t until November 2022 but I did make park reservations. When I go go to My Genie Day to to My Day it shows park hours and has Epcot as opening at 9 am and AK closing some days at 9 pm. I’m sure it’s nothing but odd to see.



That's fun - just checked mine and all park hours are 9-9. Some kind of placeholder?  I'd much rather the 'average guest' got told hours were not released rather than ones that would be changing.


----------



## emmabelle

ENJDisneyFan said:


> If you know for sure you want G+ every day, it doesn't hurt to add it now.  But, if you want to try it first and see how it goes, just add it day by day.  No real advantage either way.



so the $15 a day thing wouldn't sell out in advance of our trip?


----------



## LSUfan4444

emmabelle said:


> so the $15 a day thing wouldn't sell out in advance of our trip?


Nope


----------



## mshanson3121

emmabelle said:


> so the $15 a day thing wouldn't sell out in advance of our trip?



It will never sell out. However, attraction availability will. So you may have paid $15 for very few rides.


----------



## Miffy

For anyone who's been in the parks and using Genie, G+, and/or ILL$: What's been your experience with phone battery drain?

For example, have you needed to recharge your phone more than once during the day? More than twice? Never?

TIA


----------



## katyringo

Posting this again. A lot of questions being asked again are answered here:


Summary of what I learned today!


Buying genie +

You can purchase genie+ in two ways. You can buy it the day off after midnight or you can add it to your vacation package ticket. If you add it to your package you have to commit to it for every day you have a ticket.

120 minute rule

The 120 minute rule comes into play 2 different ways. The first way is if you book a genie+ at 7am for more than 2 hours after park opening you can make another selection 2 hours after the park opens.

The second way is once the park is open. Once the park has been open and you make a selection that is more than 2 hours away you can make another one in 2 hours.

7am rule for off site

If you are staying off site you can make Genie+ reservations at 7am BUT YOU CANNOT MAKE INDIVIDUAL LIGHTNING LANE SELECTIONS UNTIL PARK
OPENING. Park opening of the park you are buying for. If you are buying Remy and are off site, you can buy Remy when Epcot opens.

7am rule for on site

If you are staying on site you can make BOTH an individual lightning lane selection and genie+ selection at 7am.

Refreshing

You can refresh the my tips page to try and get earlier or different times offered to you. However you CANNOT cancel or modify an individual lightning lane pass.

You can cancel a genie+ pass and book another one. You cannot modify an existing one.

Park hopping

The app recognizes your park hopper. You can book genie+ selections in other parks after 2pm. You can also make Individual lightning lane selections for other parks at 7am(onsite) or park opening (offsite).

Choosing a time

For genie+ you have to pick the time the app gives you.

For individual lightning lane the app will show a time BUT you can click on it and then will be able to choose from all available times.

You can buy both lightning lane selections at the same time.

Stacking

Stacking is confirmed possible and you can hold multiple Genie+ selections at a time. You can also hold virtual que, individual lightening lane and genie+ selections all at the same time.

Virtual que

Right now Remy is the only ride with the virtual que and the drop is at 7 and 1pm. You can use this along with individual lightning lane and genie+. You can use virtual que and individual lightning lane for the same ride.

Patterns from day 1


Hollywood studios saw rides run out of passes. Rise ran out of individual lightning lanes by 945 and slinky dog and smugglers ran out of genie+ early afternoon.

Magic kingdom saw jungle cruise run out of genie+. Individual lightning lane passes for SDMT and space have not run out. Most return times are right away/ next hour at this moment.

Epcot nothing had run out and return times are right away/next hour.

AK nothing had run out and return times are right away/next hour.


What happens if the ride is down

It seems when a ride is down a ride anytime pass is issued.


----------



## mshanson3121

Miffy said:


> For anyone who's been in the parks and using Genie, G+, and/or ILL$: What's been your experience with phone battery drain?
> 
> For example, have you needed to recharge your phone more than once during the day? More than twice? Never?
> 
> TIA



Not myself, but most reports (people and bloggers) say it is draining their phone quickly.


----------



## CWTC

Miffy said:


> For anyone who's been in the parks and using Genie, G+, and/or ILL$: What's been your experience with phone battery drain?
> 
> For example, have you needed to recharge your phone more than once during the day? More than twice? Never?
> 
> TIA


We bought the MagSafe iPhone battery packs specifically for this reason. After hitting 2 parks the last two morning/early afternoon the packs have been drained to about 20% and phone holding around  80% (they aren’t designed to fully charge phone).  Then we recharge for dinner/evening: even after boo bash the same pattern held.  I’m not sure how our phones would have managed without the battery packs but to be fair we use them heavily in line, on transport, etc.

edited to add: we have iPhone 13 pros and this is a review on the battery packs we have.

https://www.theverge.com/22588777/apple-magsafe-battery-review-size-iphone-12-mini


----------



## DisneyKidds

LSUfan4444 said:


> Nope


Right, Disney has said G+ will never sell out.  Unfortunately, during busier times that doesn’t guarantee that useful G+ LL return times for better rides (think Splash and Thunder) will actually be available.  My fear is that when we go next July (or for people going around the holidays) and consider using it a lot more rides will run out of return times than the handful we’ve seen the past couple of days.


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

katyringo said:


> 7am rule for off site
> 
> If you are staying off site you can make Genie+ reservations at 7am BUT YOU CANNOT MAKE INDIVIDUAL LIGHTNING LANE SELECTIONS UNTIL PARK
> OPENING. *I believe this is park opening for the park you have a reservation.*


Has anyone offsite been able to confirm the part in bold?


----------



## leeniewdw

DisneyFive said:


> Pretty sure you need to tap into your reserved park before hopping.  I think that’s the way it’s worked for a while now with the park reservation system and hoppers.  Can others confirm?
> 
> Dan





ENJDisneyFan said:


> That is correct.  You must tap into your reserved park before hopping to another.



Thanks to you both.  Makes things more complicated for a travel/day1 parks, but good to know!



Disturbia said:


> Except for travel day; you can choose not to hop, so Epcot reservations are ok and you can try for the 7 am Boarding Group…assuming Epcot is your travel day park



I'm not sure I'm following.  This is our travel/day 1 itinerary.   Flight departs RDU around 11am arriving around 1pm.   We won't be in the parks until probably 2:30.   I'd like to be able to start making our LL selections at 7am.  I might even be able to make 2 additional reservations before we take off.   But at 7am (and possibly the next 2 time slots I can request add'l LL), the timeslots are going to be too soon for us to actually use.   If I select a diff park then our reservation, the system knows I won't be there until 2pm. 

I really don't want to make 6 people, travel, arrive, tap into the morning park, just to immediately turn around and head to the park where we have LL!   Does anyone have a suggestion? 

If I just use our park reservation for the park we want to visit upon arrival, I'll have to keep refreshing until I see a time slot that we think we can use -- AND I can't use the morning to stack LLs.  I mean, we're paying for park hoppers for that day and only using half the day AND paying for G+, it seems like we should be able to use G+ to our advantage without a time wasting tap in.


----------



## LSUfan4444

DisneyKidds said:


> My fear is that when we go next July (or for people going around the holidays) and consider using it a lot more rides will run out of return times than the handful we’ve seen the past couple of days.



Depends on how you use it. If you will judge it's value on quantity (meaning how many rides you use it regardless of time saving) on and not quality (time it saves you waiting vs just using standby regardless of how many rides you used it on) you will struggle to think it's worth it on busier days.

On busier days, if you use standby as your friend when waits are low (rope drop and park close) and use G+ and ILLs later in the day when standby is longer, you can have success. 

The key to happiness is to view it as G+ and Ills vs standby only and not G+ and Ills vs Maxpass, FP+ or FP.

You have to look at what is being offered and what the options are if you plan to go.


----------



## Miffy

Here's a positive thought about the complexity of the new Genie/G+/ILL$ system: The more complicated it is, the less likely it is that an unprepared guest will know how to use it or even know that they _can_ use it. Therefore, for those of us in the know, we will have a distinct advantage, much like the advantage we had with FP+.

It was my experience that a heckuva lot of park visitors didn't know how to use FP+, didn't know they _could _use it, didn't know it existed, didn't know it was free, etc., etc., etc. Despite the fact that WDW resort guests were always informed about FP+ after booking and many times after that--especially on the day they could actually start booking FP+s--yet many people weren't taking advantage of it.

I expect Genie et al. will be the same. Those of us who've studied up will have an advantage over the people who don't know, don't understand, or can't be bothered.

Does this mean that I like that it's so complicated? No, I do not. But I also suspect (and I hope I'm wrong) it's possible there's an underlying reason for the complexity, and I won't be at all surprised when, a few weeks or a few months from now, WDW starts selling something like Uni's FOL pass and charging $250 or $300 per person, per day for it. It will be simple and straightforward: Ride everything everywhere with instant LL access. Ride as many times as you want, with the exception of the headliners, which you can ride only once. Period. Besides the convenience, the simplicity of this will be a huge selling point. Would I buy this? Certainly not.


----------



## Sjm9911

Anyone know if you can split up a party? So 2 people get LL for one ride and 1 person gets another one? Then regroup for the next LL with all three together? 

As for battery packs , amazon has a small one thats like 25 $ and will recharge you phone to full 4 times. I xan share a link if anyone wants. I got mine for the last disney trip in 2019 and its still going strong.


----------



## LSUfan4444

ENJDisneyFan said:


> Has anyone offsite been able to confirm the part in bold?


Park opening of the park you are buying for. If you are buying Remy and are off site, you can buy Remy when Epcot opens.


----------



## LSUfan4444

Miffy said:


> Here's a positive thought about the complexity of the new Genie/G+/ILL$ system: The more complicated it is, the less likely it is that an unprepared guest will know how to use it or even know that they _can_ use it. Therefore, for those of us in the know, we will have a distinct advantage, much like the advantage we had with FP+.


Totally agree. I am not trying to convince anyone to buy it. The less that do, the easier it is for me to make it work and the more valuable it becomes and the better standby waits are when I do chose to use them.


----------



## MainMom

A separate post for experiences would be nice. I would like to know how groups of 5+ found genie+/ILL$ useful or not. My group will have 7 next June and I have previously traveled with 11-13 during the summer. I could never effectively utilize FP+ 4th+ after our first 3 without a very long time spent on my phone. Most of the reports are for 1-2 people who stay in the park all day.


----------



## LSUfan4444

Sjm9911 said:


> Anyone know if you can split up a party? So 2 people get LL for one ride and 1 person gets another one? Then regroup for the next LL with all three together?


yep


----------



## leeniewdw

Miffy said:


> Here's a positive thought about the complexity of the new Genie/G+/ILL$ system: The more complicated it is, the less likely it is that an unprepared guest will know how to use it or even know that they _can_ use it. Therefore, for those of us in the know, we will have a distinct advantage, much like the advantage we had with FP+.



Last night I tried to explain the changes that went into place to my husband.  We probably spoke about for 30 minutes and he still found it confusing.  I feel like having to use example after example of hypothetical day to explain how it works is just evidence that the process is too complicated.   You could explain FP+ in about 5 minutes.  

Maybe that will work to the advantage to those that decide to purchase, but I'm sitting here trying to figure out how to use the system for our travel/arrival day and honestly aren't sure how to do it the best way.   I literally want to give money to WDW for 6 people's park hoppers & G+ and I can't figure out how to get multiple LL reservations for the afternoon and travel at the same time.


----------



## PaladinButters

Miffy said:


> For anyone who's been in the parks and using Genie, G+, and/or ILL$: What's been your experience with phone battery drain?
> 
> For example, have you needed to recharge your phone more than once during the day? More than twice? Never?
> 
> TIA



That's going to depend on how you're using it (and for what else all day).  I have never recharged my phone in a theme park, the app is only open 30 seconds at a time to select the next pass/ see wait times/ scan tickets/ whatever or the camera to snap a few photos. Otherwise it's in my pocket/bag.  Now a power user constantly trying to refresh times the whole 20 minutes they are standing in another line is going to need a charge (or another adult to split the phone time with).


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

LSUfan4444 said:


> Park opening of the park you are buying for. If you are buying Remy and are off site, you can buy Remy when Epcot opens.


That's what I thought.  Perhaps @katyringo can update her summary.


----------



## DisneyKidds

LSUfan4444 said:


> Depends on how you use it. If you will judge it's value on quantity (meaning how many rides you use it regardless of time saving) on and not quality (time it saves you waiting vs just using standby regardless of how many rides you used it on) you will struggle to think it's worth it on busier days.
> 
> On busier days, if you use standby as your friend when waits are low (rope drop and park close) and use G+ and ILLs later in the day when standby is longer, you can have success.
> 
> The key to happiness is to view it as G+ and Ills vs standby only and not G+ and Ills vs Maxpass, FP+ or FP.
> 
> You have to look at what is being offered and what the options are if you plan to go.


Agreed!  It’s all about time savings, not LL number of attractions.  Only time will tell whether G+ will be truly useful (will useful return times for better rides be available as the day wears on) during peak times…..


----------



## DisneyKidds

MainMom said:


> A separate post for experiences would be nice. I would like to know how groups of 5+ found genie+/ILL$ useful or not. My group will have 7 next June and I have previously traveled with 11-13 during the summer. I could never effectively utilize FP+ 4th+ after our first 3 without a very long time spent on my phone. Most of the reports are for 1-2 people who stay in the park all day.


I haven’t used Genie yet….but I just started such a thread for people who have!


----------



## Marionnette

Sjm9911 said:


> Anyone know if you can split up a party? So 2 people get LL for one ride and 1 person gets another one? Then regroup for the next LL with all three together?
> 
> As for battery packs , amazon has a small one thats like 25 $ and will recharge you phone to full 4 times. I xan share a link if anyone wants. I got mine for the last disney trip in 2019 and its still going strong.


Yes, you can choose who you are buying ILL$ for.


----------



## MainMom

DisneyKidds said:


> I haven’t used Genie yet….but I just started such a thread for people who have!


Thank you!


----------



## bsmcneil

mshanson3121 said:


> Not myself, but most reports (people and bloggers) say it is draining their phone quickly.


lol. I know this isn't what you mean - but bloggers are people, too!


----------



## OhDannyBoy

Love it or hate it your phone is going to likely run out of battery if you use G+. $20 on amazon can fix that.


----------



## katyringo

ENJDisneyFan said:


> That's what I thought.  Perhaps @katyringo can update her summary.


I updated it! Thank you!


----------



## DisneyKidds

Marionnette said:


> Yes, you can choose who you are buying ILL$ for.


And G+, too.  Then I believe it’s like FP+ was, where you can book different rides for different people in your group.  If I want to book a G+ or ILL$ LL for something like Test Track or Space Mountain while my wife gets one for something like Spaceship Earth or Pooh I think you can do that.  At least I hope so!


----------



## katyringo

OhDannyBoy said:


> Love it or hate it your phone is going to likely run out of battery if you use G+. $20 on amazon can fix that.


  Yes. Get an external charger and charge during meals.  My phone drained before genie+ because I was always using it to take pictures and such.


----------



## DavidNYC

DisneyKidds said:


> I think we are of a similar mind regarding G+ but I gotta say…..this post baffles me.
> 
> For starters, to plan your “30 minutes a day in the MK” 60 days in advance you had to, you know, plan that you were going to be in the MK.  While it wasn’t a park reservation, per se, it was darn near the equivalent.  Ok, so 60 days out you had to decide which parks you’d be in which days to make your FP+ reservations.  Oh, but it wasn’t that simple, no.  Will you be park hopping any of those days?  Better figure that in.  Oh, and then you needed to worry about ADRs before you book those FP+.  Honestly, a lot more went into planning under FP+….pretty much your entire day….than your hyperbole here let’s on.
> 
> Don’t get me wrong, I long for FP+ over G+, I think.  Not that it matters a whit.  While G+ will allow you to avoid pre-planning ride times months in advance, you still need to plan your days months in advance to make park reservations and ADRs.  In that regard….the more things change the more they stay the same, as they say.  With FP+ you chose 3 guaranteed rides, in advance, for which you picked your times, then in park FPs, and you had it for free.  Under Genie you can pick your times to guarantee 2 rides, but you do it day of, and you can make other ride reservations starting at 7am day of.  However, it comes with a $40 ($15 G+ plus up to $25 ILL$) per day per person price tag.  That’s a big change.
> 
> Oh, and because Disney is ingraining in cast members that monetizing every aspect of the Disney experience is of paramount importance those cast members now tell little kids to go scratch in circumstances where they would otherwise have created a truly Magical moment for the kid in the past.  Disney Magic vs. Disney “Magic”.  That’s a big change, too…..


You still need now to know which parks you’re going to be in which day so that hasn’t been improved at all.  In fact it’s worse - you could always change your mind before.  Now you have to hope there’s a reservation available.  ADRs by all account are even harder now so that hasn’t changed.  I ha e said that if you don’t mind paying that the ILL does offer new benefit - but at a big price.  Looking at the times this morning - I see many return times creeping up faster than the last two days - so the planning is still there - but with far more pressure.  You’re locked into your park - and if you don’t get what you want - tough.  The amount of planning before was still relatively minor as far as rides go.


----------



## DisneyKidds

DavidNYC said:


> You still need now to know which parks you’re going to be in which day so that hasn’t been improved at all.  In fact it’s worse - you could always change your mind before.  Now you have to hope there’s a reservation available.  ADRs by all account are even harder now so that hasn’t changed.  I ha e said that if you don’t mind paying that the ILL does offer new benefit - but at a big price.  Looking at the times this morning - I see many return times creeping up faster than the last two days - so the planning is still there - but with far more pressure.  You’re locked into your park - and if you don’t get what you want - tough.  The amount of planning before was still relatively minor as far as rides go.


Agreed!


----------



## LSUfan4444

DisneyKidds said:


> And G+, too.  Then I believe it’s like FP+ was, where you can book different rides for different people in your group.  If I want to book a G+ or ILL$ LL for something like Test Track or Space Mountain while my wife gets one for something like Spaceship Earth or Pooh I think you can do that.  At least I hope so!


Yes, not everyone will want to ride Tower of Terror so they can be booked at Beauty and the Beast (for example). I mean, I weep for those people but it can be done =)


----------



## LSUfan4444

DavidNYC said:


> You still need now to know which parks you’re going to be in which day so that hasn’t been improved at all.  In fact it’s worse - you could always change your mind before.  Now you have to hope there’s a reservation available.  ADRs by all account are even harder now so that hasn’t changed.  I ha e said that if you don’t mind paying that the ILL does offer new benefit - but at a big price.  Looking at the times this morning - I see many return times creeping up faster than the last two days - so the planning is still there - but with far more pressure.  You’re locked into your park - and if you don’t get what you want - tough.  The amount of planning before was still relatively minor as far as rides go.


I agree too. The best thing to happen to WDW since COVID (IMO) was getting rid of FP+ the worst was park reservations.


----------



## Boardwalk III

Sjm9911 said:


> Anyone know if you can split up a party? So 2 people get LL for one ride and 1 person gets another one? Then regroup for the next LL with all three together?
> 
> As for battery packs , amazon has a small one thats like 25 $ and will recharge you phone to full 4 times. I xan share a link if anyone wants. I got mine for the last disney trip in 2019 and its still going strong.



Would love that link as need to order one today for a trip in a couple of weeks!


----------



## OhDannyBoy

Boardwalk III said:


> Would love that link as need to order one today for a trip in a couple of weeks!


Something like this will be great.

https://www.amazon.com/INIU-High-Sp...prefix=PHONE+BATTERY+CHAR,aps,184&sr=8-6&th=1
I always carry these in the parks as we bring old phones for the kids to occupy them in long lines. They stream Youtube videos which is murder on a battery.


----------



## snikki

DavidNYC said:


> You still need now to know which parks you’re going to be in which day so that hasn’t been improved at all.  In fact it’s worse - you could always change your mind before.  Now you have to hope there’s a reservation available.  ADRs by all account are even harder now so that hasn’t changed.  I ha e said that if you don’t mind paying that the ILL does offer new benefit - but at a big price.  Looking at the times this morning - I see many return times creeping up faster than the last two days - so the planning is still there - but with far more pressure.  You’re locked into your park - and if you don’t get what you want - tough.  The amount of planning before was still relatively minor as far as rides go.



Park reservations are rarely selling out anymore. Only on certain very popular days.

I would say it’s much easier to switch parks with this new system if you aren’t going Xmas, Easter or Thanksgiving weeks. With FP+ you would be screwed if you had a FP+ for FOP, SDD, SDMT and a few others and had to switch the park that morning. Chances of getting those in the next few days we’re slim to none. It happened to me one trip. We had to leave AK and I lost Navi and never was able to get another the rest of the trip. It wasn’t a big deal but I’m glad it wasn’t FOP because we really wanted to ride that.


----------



## Avery&Todd

leeniewdw said:


> Thanks to you both.  Makes things more complicated for a travel/day1 parks, but good to know!
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure I'm following.  This is our travel/day 1 itinerary.   Flight departs RDU around 11am arriving around 1pm.   We won't be in the parks until probably 2:30.   I'd like to be able to start making our LL selections at 7am.  I might even be able to make 2 additional reservations before we take off.   But at 7am (and possibly the next 2 time slots I can request add'l LL), the timeslots are going to be too soon for us to actually use.   If I select a diff park then our reservation, the system knows I won't be there until 2pm.
> 
> I really don't want to make 6 people, travel, arrive, tap into the morning park, just to immediately turn around and head to the park where we have LL!   Does anyone have a suggestion?
> 
> If I just use our park reservation for the park we want to visit upon arrival, I'll have to keep refreshing until I see a time slot that we think we can use -- AND I can't use the morning to stack LLs.  I mean, we're paying for park hoppers for that day and only using half the day AND paying for G+, it seems like we should be able to use G+ to our advantage without a time wasting tap in.


We're in the same boat except our non-stop flights from RDU will arrive at MCO at 9:30am - so still after the park opens.  

And DH and I are AP holders, so I can't purchase Genie + until that morning, after midnight and before 7am, so I'll buy those and then literally as I'm boarding our 730am flight, I'll be selecting our first LL attraction for probably BTMRR about 1pm, then once we tap into the park, we should be able to select another LL attraction, probably Jungle Cruise, and maybe ride that before Thunder, so that after we ride Thunder we'll be able to book another...I THINK that's how it will work..

what I'm not banking on is having to wait 2 hrs from the LL that I booked once I tapped into the park that I can hopefully ride before my Thunder LL @ 1pm...

I'm hoping over the next 3 weeks there are other AP holders flying in can report back on what they did...


----------



## Disturbia

snikki said:


> I have been playing with G+. My trip isn’t until November 2022 but I did make park reservations. When I go go to My Genie Day to to My Day it shows park hours and has Epcot as opening at 9 am and AK closing some days at 9 pm. I’m sure it’s nothing but odd to see.


Disney keeps changing hours.  Just a week or so ago they added an hour to first week of Nov for AK and MK some days but not others, so I was hoping they would have after hours parties (we could do 3 parties for the price of Genie+ and LLIA$)


----------



## Disturbia

Boardwalk III said:


> Would love that link as need to order one today for a trip in a couple of weeks!


We have a child who isn’t tall enough for some attractions.  Each time you book a pass you select your party just like an ADR.  Genie asks if you want height restrictions displayed when you set up your trip as well


----------



## Jrb1979

I'm so surprised so many trying to use Genie+ like FP+ by trying to book their 3 most important rides each day. Booking rides at your 2nd park first makes no sense. Doing that you're most likely only getting 3 LL a day. Why pay $15 for only 3 rides.


----------



## Miffy

katyringo said:


> Yes. Get an external charger and charge during meals.  My phone drained before genie+ because I was always using it to take pictures and such.


Yes, I have a battery pack that I always bring with me to the parks. I was just wondering if I'm going to have to use it even more often than I already do!

Also, my sister and I have places where we know there are electric outlets (like by the elevators in the Seas pavilion at Epcot) and we do that too.


----------



## SCDisneyfanatic

Posted by MJJME: 
7am for work? Sure. It’s work, I get paid to do it.
dont get up at 7am on vacation ever. Skiing, beach, Disney, etc. never, especially when I have to pay vs getting paid
think of it this way. You saved an hour, even 2 in lines. But you woke up 2 hours earlier to book your first ride. You were on your phone all day. You paid $175 for your family of 5.
what was different than the last time you visited MK? Did you ride different rides? Did you spend less time in the park from start to finish?
no. You woke up earlier Paid more money. Spent the same amount of time in the park.
look at it for Disney’s perspective. They had the same or less amount of guests. Fewer employees because the parks weren’t open as long. More money because those same people just paid more for the exact same experience.
this is a marketing ploy and it is frustrating that people fall for it. 

You make some good points but are playing the "one size fits all" attitude.  Me, for instance:  0700 is sleeping in.  0600 on work days and 0700ish every other day because I like getting up and doing things.  So, for me 0700 is not giving back some time I don't want to give.  This trip we have 2 young granddaughters going with us...first trip ever.  They still need down time and some nap time each day so Genie+ allows us to save time on popular rides for little kids (Peter Pan for instance) but not miss out on rides we want them to experience.  The cost at $15 per person per day is not an issue in the big scheme of things with the current cost.  1 night doing pizza instead of a nice restaurant more than makes up for a 4 day trip for our group at $15 each per day.  The point is, some people can use this to an advantage to make their trip more enjoyable, so for them (like us) it's a good thing.  For others that find it a ploy by Disney, well can't argue with your take...after all, all opinions are the same...opinions!!  I'll report back after next week when we try this for real and give you my feedback on time vs cost vs convenience.


----------



## Grumpy by Birth

My earlier comments about ROTR and ILL$ caused this random thought to pop into my head.  ROTR has gone to SB in lieu of BGs.  So, if you don't purchase ILL$, you can still get in the SB line and wait to ride it (good news for those who complained about BGs and not being given the option to wait to ride).

But Remy is still a BG ride.  So, if you are not successful in obtaining a BG for it, you can opt to purchase ILL$ for it instead.  Since there's no SB option, one could make the argument that you are not just purchasing expedited LL access, but you are, in fact, paying to ride it.  Because in that scenario (failed to get a BG), you wouldn't be able to ride it at all unless you pay.

That may strengthen the image of paying extra to "ride the rides" rather than paying extra to "skip the line."  Which will, in turn, have more people questioning whether it was worth $X to ride that.  There's already been a lot of speculation about families spending extra for, say, 7DMT ILL$ and then having buyer's remorse after riding it.  ("That's it?  I paid $X for that????")


----------



## snikki

Grumpy by Birth said:


> My earlier comments about ROTR and ILL$ caused this random thought to pop into my head.  ROTR has gone to SB in lieu of BGs.  So, if you don't purchase ILL$, you can still get in the SB line and wait to ride it (good news for those who complained about BGs and not being given the option to wait to ride).
> 
> But Remy is still a BG ride.  So, if you are not successful in obtaining a BG for it, you can opt to purchase ILL$ for it instead.  Since there's no SB option, one could make the argument that you are not just purchasing expedited LL access, but you are, in fact, paying to ride it.  Because in that scenario (failed to get a BG), you wouldn't be able to ride it at all unless you pay.
> 
> That may strengthen the image of paying extra to "ride the rides" rather than paying extra to "skip the line."  Which will, in turn, have more people questioning whether it was worth $X to ride that.  There's already been a lot of speculation about families spending big bucks for 7DMT LL and then having buyer's remorse after riding it.  ("That's it?  I paid $X for that????")



I think Remy will be standby within the next few weeks.


----------



## amylevan

Jrb1979 said:


> I'm so surprised so many trying to use Genie+ like FP+ by trying to book their 3 most important rides each day. Booking rides at your 2nd park first makes no sense. Doing that you're most likely only getting 3 LL a day. Why pay $15 for only 3 rides.


FWIW, there are a lot of rides that G+ would only save you minimal to no time and you can only use once per ride.   So setting it up to use at your 2nd park, during the busiest time of the day (afternoon) might be a best bet for some depending on what they want to ride and what wait times are.

And if return times start to fly through the day s more people use the system, I’m not sure how many more than 3 you’re likely to get anyhow.   How many could people get in legacy FP?  Because that is what this most closely resembles (except you can’t repeat rides).


----------



## OhDannyBoy

Miffy said:


> Yes, I have a battery pack that I always bring with me to the parks. I was just wondering if I'm going to have to use it even more often than I already do!



I'd say probably and plan for it.


----------



## mshanson3121

Jonfw2 said:


> So I just got here and instead of reading the entire thread, can someone just kind of summarize it for me?



Apparently I have to re-answer this, because we're not allowed to use humor or make jokes anymore. 

Many people do not like GP+. They find it unnecessarily complicated. Some people love it. Then there's been some arguing between the two groups. There's been some questions on how to use it, some answers and some first hand reports. That's the summary.


----------



## Orsino

Avery&Todd said:


> then literally as I'm boarding our 730am flight, I'll be selecting our first LL attraction for probably BTMRR about 1pm,



From what I've read, you won't be able to do this like you think you can. I think it will be unlikely for you to be able to get a 1PM BTMRR LL at 7:30AM. Genie+ will give you first available which will likely be way before noon.

From what I've read, if you want afternoon LL booked at 7AM, you have to use hop privileges. In other words, reserve non-MK as your park reservation, then book BTMRR for 2PM as a hopped to park. You will have to visit your reserved park first though, so that may not be worth it.


----------



## Avery&Todd

Orsino said:


> From what I've read, you won't be able to do this like you think you can. I think it will be unlikely for you to be able to get a 1PM BTMRR LL at 7:30AM. Genie+ will give you first available which will likely be way before noon.
> 
> From what I've read, if you want afternoon LL booked at 7AM, you have to use hop privileges. In other words, reserve non-MK as your park reservation, then book BTMRR for 2PM as a hopped to park. You will have to visit your reserved park first though, so that may not be worth it.



OR, what about when I land at MCO (at 9:30) I should be able to pop onto my phone and check for a later LL time then, right?


----------



## DisneyKidds

SCDisneyfanatic said:


> Posted by MJJME:
> Don’t get up at 7am on vacation ever. Skiing, beach, Disney, etc. never….


Never?  Not even a powder day or for an early low tide (better for surfing)?


----------



## Disturbia

LSUfan4444 said:


> At 7, if you want to book in the park you plan on hopping to, it shouldn't even give you options to book before 2pm.
> 
> Add the 2nd park you plan to hop to on your Tip Board for the day. Then, after logging in change the park (Genie should default to where your reservation is) to where you are hopping to and the time windows should start for when you can hop.


You can actually book LLIA$ in the second park.   Someone correct me off I’m wrong but I believe you can book a Genie+ selection at the second park at 7 am or 2 hours after park1 opens (which is currently 11 am for MK and HS; 12 pm at Epcot), however if you do want to do standby in park1 9 am-1:30 pm, then book your first Genie+ at park 1 at day 9-10 am and second 2 hours after park opens (the 120 min rule) so at 11 am (at MK) for after 2 pm in park2 (eg Test track for 2-3 pm).

now I’m still unsure how long you can keep adding to your 9am-10 am pass (while holding a second pass for TT at 2 pm), but once you hit the second turnstile at a ride you can book second one right away (you don’t have to wait till 10 am like a CM told someone).


----------



## snikki

LSUfan4444 said:


> At 7, if you want to book in the park you plan on hopping to, it shouldn't even give you options to book before 2pm.
> 
> Add the 2nd park you plan to hop to on your Tip Board for the day. Then, after logging in change the park (Genie should default to where your reservation is) to where you are hopping to and the time windows should start for when you can hop.



But you would have to wait until availability for 2 pm starts right? At 7 am I can’t automatically book a splash LL at 2:15 pm just because I plan to hop there and it’s in my genie plans? I’m a little confused on this part.

I know for ILL I can definitely book whatever time I want for whatever park I want as long as it’s after 2 pm if it’s my my reserved park.


----------



## leeniewdw

Avery&Todd said:


> We're in the same boat except our non-stop flights from RDU will arrive at MCO at 9:30am - so still after the park opens.
> 
> And DH and I are AP holders, so I can't purchase Genie + until that morning, after midnight and before 7am, so I'll buy those and t*hen literally as I'm boarding our 730am flight, I'll be selecting our first LL attraction for probably BTMRR about 1pm,* then once we tap into the park, we should be able to select another LL attraction, probably Jungle Cruise, and maybe ride that before Thunder, so that after we ride Thunder we'll be able to book another...I THINK that's how it will work..



This is where I have a question.  If at 7:30am as you are boarding, the "next LL timeslot" is earlier than you'd be able to make it... then what?  It's my understanding that the G+/LL only offers the next available timeslots.  I did see talk about refreshing if the timeslots are later, but my concern would be that at 7:30 am, you choices are more like pre-noon, instead of 1pm.    Like at this very moment, BTMRR LL time is 11:55am.   There's not a way to force it to later.

That's my problem too - it's just that my arrival time is much later than yours.


----------



## 20KLeagues

Jrb1979 said:


> I'm so surprised so many trying to use Genie+ like FP+ by trying to book their 3 most important rides each day. Booking rides at your 2nd park first makes no sense. Doing that you're most likely only getting 3 LL a day. Why pay $15 for only 3 rides.


Thats not true......you can book the same number of rides.......2 hour rule still applies

eg.....
7am: book 2pm for SDD
9am park opens
11am, book MSFR for 3pm
1pm, book ToT for 4pm
3pm, book RnR for 5pm


----------



## AZMermaid

At 7AM, what times are people getting for slinky? I see it’s booking quickly, but at say, 7:05, what time is it booking for? I’m on the west coast so I dont want to get up at 4AM to look, lol! I’m trying to figure out a Slinky/Rise strategy. Can you book for the same party on two devices?


----------



## DisneyKidds

leeniewdw said:


> This is where I have a question.  If at 7:30am as you are boarding, the "next LL timeslot" is earlier than you'd be able to make it... then what?  It's my understanding that the G+/LL only offers the next available timeslots.  I did see talk about refreshing if the timeslots are later, but my concern would be that at 7:30 am, you choices are more like pre-noon, instead of 1pm.    Like at this very moment, BTMRR LL time is 11:55am.   There's not a way to force it to later.
> 
> That's my problem too - it's just that my arrival time is much later than yours.


I think the only option is to keep refreshing until a time that suits your needs is offered.  Now your G+ efforts just got more expensive…..IF you have to pay for WiFi on the plane so you can spend your whole flight with your nose in your phone..before you get to the park and spend the rest of the day with your nose in your phone!


----------



## Orsino

dmunsil said:


> I can think of another possibility: (D) you can get another at 1:00 (120 minutes after you got your most recent one).
> 
> That said, Seth Kubersky says his tests say the answer is A. This makes a sort of sense - the basic rule is, once you scan into a ride, you can get a new reservation, no matter when you made your previous reservation. Simple, easy to understand.



Hmmm. This looks suspicious to me. While I can believe that Genie+ is currently functioning this way, I don't believe it was intended to be this way. If this is how Genie+ works currently, Disney should fix it as this loophole is kind of glaring.

For example:
Someone who books before 9AM opening for 10:55AM and taps in at 10:55AM will then end up holding one new LL.
vs
Someone who books before 9AM opening for 11:05AM and then books a new LL at 11AM, then taps in at 11:05AM and books another LL? That's crazy different for a small shift in time.

Functionally, Genie+ should be programmed so that you can book if 120 minutes have passed OR you have no Genie+ in inventory. That would be much cleaner.


----------



## 20KLeagues

AZMermaid said:


> At 7AM, what times are people getting for slinky? I see it’s booking quickly, but at say, 7:05, what time is it booking for? I’m on the west coast so I dont want to get up at 4AM to look, lol! I’m trying to figure out a Slinky/Rise strategy. Can you book for the same party on two devices?


Its getting to late afternoon within 15-30 mins so its fluid.........it will be very different depending on how busy parks are and i wouldnt be surprised if it "sold out" within minutes on the busy days


----------



## LSUfan4444

snikki said:


> At 7 am I can’t automatically book a splash LL at 2:15 pm just because I plan to hop there and it’s in my genie plans? I’m a little confused on this part.




Yes. if you plan to hope to MK but have a reservation for say Epcot in the morning. When you log on to MDX at 7 am if you look to book your first G+ reservation in MK, it will not show you morning time windows for Magic Kingdom - it knows you will not be there, only windows that start after you can so there is no need to refresh all day and look for times.



Disturbia said:


> You can actually book LLIA$ in the second park



Correct, I was talking about booking your first G+ at the park you want to hop to. You can book ILLs in any park and pick your window.

If you do this you can book your first G+ to your second (third or fourth park), book your second G+ two hours after your first park opens, again two hours after that, etc.


----------



## Jrb1979

20KLeagues said:


> Thats not true......you can book the same number of rides.......2 hour rule still applies
> 
> eg.....
> 7am: book 2pm for SDD
> 9am park opens
> 11am, book MSFR for 3pm
> 1pm, book ToT for 4pm
> 3pm, book RnR for 5pm



To me to get the max value for Genie+ is book the popular ride in your first park right away then after riding that or 2 hours later depending on your return time book another ride in that park.

Then book something in the park you are hopping too. To book the most popular rides only makes it not worth paying $15. For me to make it worth it I want to get 6 to 7 rides a day.


----------



## Orsino

Avery&Todd said:


> OR, what about when I land at MCO (at 9:30) I should be able to pop onto my phone and check for a later LL time then, right?


It depends on how popular LL is for the attraction you want. Genie+ serves up the soonest block available. To get afternoon LL, that means all the morning ones have to be taken by other people. If they aren't biting, you won't get afternoon LL. You aren't allowed to choose with Genie+.


----------



## MakiraMarlena

It's not a busy time, but the only thing I have seen "sell out" is Slinky Dog. There are some rapid movers at each park such as Test Track, Millennium Falcon, Jungle Cruise.

ILLS for Rise sell out very early, I haven't seen anything else sell out in these 3 days. (If you want to book RISE after 9:30 that probably won't work)

also as have been noted, they offer the next available time. You don't get to pick and choose what time you want, if you want a later time you might have to wait to pick until one is available This system appears to be designed to work from inside the park, not for picking rides while you are still on your flight.


----------



## Disturbia

CWTC said:


> We bought the MagSafe iPhone battery packs specifically for this reason. After hitting 2 parks the last two morning/early afternoon the packs have been drained to about 20% and phone holding around  80% (they aren’t designed to fully charge phone).  Then we recharge for dinner/evening: even after boo bash the same pattern held.  I’m not sure how our phones would have managed without the battery packs but to be fair we use them heavily in line, on transport, etc.
> 
> edited to add: we have iPhone 13 pros and this is a review on the battery packs we have.
> 
> https://www.theverge.com/22588777/apple-magsafe-battery-review-size-iphone-12-mini


Why don’t they have wireless charging stations for phones?  I take my battery pack and wire and remember to plug in my phone while dining.  I’ve almost left it behind at Pecos bill, but now with all the monitoring the app we have to do that’s less likely. 

Maybe in the future all the windows will have AIs and facial recognition and suggest where to go next vs looking at our phones


----------



## amylevan

snikki said:


> But you would have to wait until availability for 2 pm starts right? At 7 am I can’t automatically book a splash LL at 2:15 pm just because I plan to hop there and it’s in my genie plans? I’m a little confused on this part.
> 
> I know for ILL I can definitely book whatever time I want for whatever park I want as long as it’s after 2 pm if it’s my my reserved park.


Yes, if you chose a ride at your hop park, the availability will start at 2, Even if it’s regular availability for those in the park is earlier.


----------



## twincruisers

Yesterday was my first day with G+ going and I must admit the standby lines are considerably slower with LL fully in play. Especially on LLI$ rides. HS ride times had quite a few differing times than what Touring Plans was predicting and a lot of it seemed LL filled lines.
I also heard from a few people they bought G+ for Mon and Wed due to the EEH extended benefit to park hop and use G+ there


----------



## leeniewdw

DisneyKidds said:


> I think the only option is to keep refreshing until a time that suits your needs is offered.  Now your G+ efforts just got more expensive…..IF you have to pay for WiFi on the plane so you can spend your whole flight with your nose in your phone..before you get to the park and spend the rest of the day with your nose in your phone!



Yup -- our trip is short 3 park days but it's with our kids (20s) and their SOs who all haven't been since they were in Middle School.  We're going to bite the bullet and use all the options, what's another wi-fi cost (but just pray it works!?).   

The problem I have is that using the 7am/11am/1pm slots to grab rides are lost unless I'm using a 2nd park-hopped strategy.  But if we have to all tap into the first park it just seems dumb.   Like, you've got 6 park hoppers, 6 G+ and I still can't use the "system" to maximize our time on arrival day.


----------



## LSUfan4444

Jrb1979 said:


> To me to get the max value for Genie+ is book the popular ride in your first park right away then after riding that or 2 hours later depending on your return time book another ride in that park.
> 
> Then book something in the park you are hopping too. To book the most popular rides only makes it not worth paying $15. For me to make it worth it I want to get 6 to 7 rides a day.


 On very busy days, I would agree. On less busy days I think you would do better using standby "right away" and booking your first G+ for when crowds build longer standby times. Booking early and looking to add, at some point, if you want to do the headliners will cause to wait. Maybe on a park bench, maybe at Picos Bill toppings bar, maybe in a gift shop but at some point if you spend all morning G+ the attractions that give you the fastest return time you will run unto a long wait somewhere (maybe Splash, Thunder, Haunted Mansion, etc).

It doesnt matter how many you use it on if you save very little on most attractions but end up waiting longer for the headliners.


----------



## jennypenny

Jrb1979 said:


> To book the most popular rides only makes it not worth paying $15. For me to make it worth it I want to get 6 to 7 rides a day.


But if a person wants to use Genie+ like the old FP+, booking the rides *they most want to ride* is more valuable than booking the _most_ rides in a day. Everyone's definition of 'value' is different. And if your kid has their heart set on riding X, I don't blame parents at all for booking X first, regardless of popularity.


----------



## Disturbia

amylevan said:


> Yes, if you chose a ride at your hop park, the availability will start at 2, Even if it’s regular availability for those in the park is earlier.


I thought you can book your Genie+ even earlier (starting 7 am) and the system will only show you passes after 2 pm because that’s the park you are hopping to; allowing you the ability to book another pass 2 hours after park opening for park 1

Optimally, say MK is park 1 and opens at 9 am; Epcot is park 2
I can book Jungle cruise at 7 am for 9-10 am and then 2 hours after park opening, at 11 am I can book the 2 pm Test Track.

Can I keep getting passes after JC say 9:15-11?


----------



## Miffy

jennypenny said:


> But if a person wants to use Genie+ like the old FP+, booking the rides *they most want to ride* is more valuable than booking the _most_ rides in a day. Everyone's definition of 'value' is different. And if your kid has their heart set on riding X, I don't blame parents at all for booking X first, regardless of popularity.


Not just parents, but I'm pretty sure my sister and I will buy G+ and/or ILL$ for all the rides we absolutely want to do. And we'll be RDing basically every day.


----------



## OhDannyBoy

Disturbia said:


> Why don’t they have wireless charging stations for phones?


Because they rather you rent their crappy recharge battery.


----------



## Orsino

leeniewdw said:


> The problem I have is that using the 7am/11am/1pm slots to grab rides are lost unless I'm using a 2nd park-hopped strategy.  But if we have to all tap into the first park it just seems dumb.   Like, you've got 6 park hoppers, 6 G+ and I still can't use the "system" to maximize our time on arrival day.


I agree. I've been contemplating if a strategy would work for us on arrival day, but the "need to tap in" requirement messes it all up. Not worth it.
If I were staying at Beach Club or Boardwalk, I could see doing it for DHS since tapping Epcot would be so easy. Otherwise, I don't think the strategy makes sense for us.


----------



## LSUfan4444

Disturbia said:


> I thought you can book your Genie+ even earlier (starting 7 am) and the system will only show you passes after 2 pm because that’s the park you are hopping to; allowing you the ability to book another pass 2 hours after park opening for park 1



I think ya'll are both saying the same thing and are both correct.

When you log on at 7am you can book your first G+ to your second (third or fourth park) and when you do the return windows begin when you can actually hop so there is no need to refresh or wait for a time window in the afternoon. I mean, if you want something a 4 or 5 or 6 pm you may have to refresh a little but not all day as if the windows started at 9am.

You can then book your second G+ two hours after your first park opens, again two hours after that, etc.


----------



## LSUfan4444

Miffy said:


> Not just parents, but I'm pretty sure my sister and I will buy G+ and/or ILL$ for all the rides we absolutely want to do. And we'll be RDing basically every day.


No doubt...and use those ILLs splashed around for a couple of things.


----------



## LSUfan4444

Disturbia said:


> Optimally, say MK is park 1 and opens at 9 am; Epcot is park 2
> I can book Jungle cruise at 7 am and then 2 hours after park opening, at 11 am I can book the 2 pm Test Track.


You can if there is something available at 11 am. But, alot of people booking test Track at 7am will take those 2pm time windows and thats one reason those time windows jump to like 4:30/5pm on the more popular G+ attractions.


----------



## leeniewdw

MakiraMarlena said:


> This system appears to be designed to work from inside the park, not for picking rides while you are still on your flight.



heh, but they've already got 3 rooms on site, 6 park hoppers worth of admission and 6x$15 for G+.   Shouldn't a guest be able to maximize that expense regardless of where they are at the moment?   We are doing exactly what Disney wants, gobbling up these extra fees and staying on site.  But I still can't plan my afternoon/evening in the parks in a logical fashion (imho).

(If I could have found a direct early morning flight, this wouldn't be so much of a problem, but I can't control that and am still willing to hand over a lot of money for a half day, I just want to use all these features I'm paying for.  Using the park hopping strategy, ,I could conceivably arrive with 3 LL passes and 1 or 2 ILL$, but I'd have to drag our whole traveling party to "tap in" a diff park first.  )


----------



## Avery&Todd

leeniewdw said:


> This is where I have a question.  If at 7:30am as you are boarding, the "next LL timeslot" is earlier than you'd be able to make it... then what?  It's my understanding that the G+/LL only offers the next available timeslots.  I did see talk about refreshing if the timeslots are later, but my concern would be that at 7:30 am, you choices are more like pre-noon, instead of 1pm.    Like at this very moment, BTMRR LL time is 11:55am.   There's not a way to force it to later.
> 
> That's my problem too - it's just that my arrival time is much later than yours.


well, I guess I could always try for an earlier LL time for Thunder, but I was giving myself "wiggle room" in case we were slower getting to MK since we also have to activate our APs before we can tap in - I guess that whole morning I'll just have to keep refreshing the app to see what times are coming up for LLs....

ugh


----------



## 20KLeagues

Jrb1979 said:


> To me to get the max value for Genie+ is book the popular ride in your first park right away then after riding that or 2 hours later depending on your return time book another ride in that park.
> 
> Then book something in the park you are hopping too. To book the most popular rides only makes it not worth paying $15. For me to make it worth it I want to get 6 to 7 rides a day.


I agree....but this strategy is for people that only tour the parks in the afternoons and  evenings (like us)

we sleep in and go to pool, have lunch in room and usually hit the parks from 3pm til closing


----------



## Disturbia

Avery&Todd said:


> We're in the same boat except our non-stop flights from RDU will arrive at MCO at 9:30am - so still after the park opens.
> 
> And DH and I are AP holders, so I can't purchase Genie + until that morning, after midnight and before 7am, so I'll buy those and then literally as I'm boarding our 730am flight, I'll be selecting our first LL attraction for probably BTMRR about 1pm, then once we tap into the park, we should be able to select another LL attraction, probably Jungle Cruise, and maybe ride that before Thunder, so that after we ride Thunder we'll be able to book another...I THINK that's how it will work..
> 
> what I'm not banking on is having to wait 2 hrs from the LL that I booked once I tapped into the park that I can hopefully ride before my Thunder LL @ 1pm...
> 
> I'm hoping over the next 3 weeks there are other AP holders flying in can report back on what they did...


You don’t have to wait 2 hours; if you ride BIG Thunder by 1:15; you can get another genie+ for 1:20-2:20 pm; that’s how people rode 12+ rides by 5


----------



## VAtink

snikki said:


> Park reservations are rarely selling out anymore. Only on certain very popular days.



We had Epcot sell out on us two days during our trip in early September, so it is possible during lighter crowd periods to not be able to switch your park reservations as well.  We had wanted to switch to Epcot one of those days but weren't able to.  At least with FP+ we could have gone to the park we wanted that day even if our FP+ were in another park.  So while it may not happen all the time, it does happen on random weekdays during slower times of the year.  It may not seem like a big deal that parks selling out happens occasionally, but when it happens to you and impacts your trip, you find yourself cursing the idiot who came up with the park reservation system!

But to bring this back to genie+, I'm cautiously excited to try it.  Don't think it's needed in all parks, but it looks like especially at MK it can be really useful!


----------



## Disturbia

Avery&Todd said:


> well, I guess I could always try for an earlier LL time for Thunder, but I was giving myself "wiggle room" in case we were slower getting to MK since we also have to activate our APs before we can tap in - I guess that whole morning I'll just have to keep refreshing the app to see what times are coming up for LLs....
> 
> ugh


If you miss your Genie+ (There is a 14 min confirmed grace period) then you can’t ride it again


----------



## leeniewdw

Orsino said:


> I agree. I've been contemplating if a strategy would work for us on arrival day, but the "need to tap in" requirement messes it all up. Not worth it.
> If I were staying at Beach Club or Boardwalk, I could see doing it for DHS since tapping Epcot would be so easy. Otherwise, I don't think the strategy makes sense for us.



You gave me an idea (still crappy but).  We're at PoP.  We could arrive, drop bags, use the skyliner to hit EPCOT, have a drink (or if I'm lucky use a ILL$ for Remy) and then skyliner to DHS for later LLs.   Still would have to use the "wait for the timeslots at DHS to be do-able", but I guess that could work.   That wasn't at all the plan we had for arrival day, but maybe it could work.  

Of course, flight delays could just totally sabotage the whole thing.

I am just imagining myself trying to explain this to the traveling party at Thanksgiving.  Um, we're going to go to EPCOT, but only for like an hour then we have to leave.


----------



## Disturbia

leeniewdw said:


> Thanks to you both.  Makes things more complicated for a travel/day1 parks, but good to know!
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure I'm following.  This is our travel/day 1 itinerary.   Flight departs RDU around 11am arriving around 1pm.   We won't be in the parks until probably 2:30.   I'd like to be able to start making our LL selections at 7am.  I might even be able to make 2 additional reservations before we take off.   But at 7am (and possibly the next 2 time slots I can request add'l LL), the timeslots are going to be too soon for us to actually use.   If I select a diff park then our reservation, the system knows I won't be there until 2pm.
> 
> I really don't want to make 6 people, travel, arrive, tap into the morning park, just to immediately turn around and head to the park where we have LL!   Does anyone have a suggestion?
> 
> If I just use our park reservation for the park we want to visit upon arrival, I'll have to keep refreshing until I see a time slot that we think we can use -- AND I can't use the morning to stack LLs.  I mean, we're paying for park hoppers for that day and only using half the day AND paying for G+, it seems like we should be able to use G+ to our advantage without a time wasting tap in.


I meant you don’t have to hop.  Just select the park you’re going to as your park for the day.  Genie asks you what you’re planning to do that day and what hours you’ll be there

https://wdwnt.com/2021/10/guide-park-hopping-with-disney-genie-at-walt-disney-world/


----------



## Orsino

leeniewdw said:


> You gave me an idea (still crappy but).  We're at PoP.  We could arrive, drop bags, use the skyliner to hit EPCOT, have a drink (or if I'm lucky use a ILL$ for Remy) and then skyliner to DHS for later LLs.   Still would have to use the "wait for the timeslots at DHS to be do-able", but I guess that could work.   That wasn't at all the plan we had for arrival day, but maybe it could work.
> 
> Of course, flight delays could just totally sabotage the whole thing.


No. You don't have to wait!
The current state of things has Disney doing something logical for once. If you have Epcot as your park reservation and have hopping on your ticket, when you book Genie+ for DHS, it will automatically serve up times after 2PM.


----------



## LSUfan4444

leeniewdw said:


> You gave me an idea (still crappy but).  We're at PoP.  We could arrive, drop bags, use the skyliner to hit EPCOT, have a drink (or if I'm lucky use a ILL$ for Remy) and then skyliner to DHS for later LLs.   Still would have to use the "wait for the timeslots at DHS to be do-able", but I guess that could work.   That wasn't at all the plan we had for arrival day, but maybe it could work.
> 
> Of course, flight delays could just totally sabotage the whole thing.



If HS is your second park you should be able to see return time windows only available after 2pm so it can make things easier to see whats available after you land. 

Look how many people here are directing their attention to adding their G+ first thing in the morning to try and grab a second one earlier. Those looking in the afternoons should be able to do pretty well.


----------



## DavidNYC

snikki said:


> Park reservations are rarely selling out anymore. Only on certain very popular days.
> 
> I would say it’s much easier to switch parks with this new system if you aren’t going Xmas, Easter or Thanksgiving weeks. With FP+ you would be screwed if you had a FP+ for FOP, SDD, SDMT and a few others and had to switch the park that morning. Chances of getting those in the next few days we’re slim to none. It happened to me one trip. We had to leave AK and I lost Navi and never was able to get another the rest of the trip. It wasn’t a big deal but I’m glad it wasn’t FOP because we really wanted to ride that.



The only reason you're OK with FOP and SDMT is if you now pay per person for them . . . so I'd debate many people are better off.  But at least I understand the value of that - I just don't like the idea of it for Disney.  For SDD?  Better be up at 7am to get your pass for that or you'll be riding at the end of the day . . . and now you'll be likely stuck in that park and losing the ability to hop because of how late your ride it - hope you weren't planning on doing that.  And we're also already seeing the reports on how fast people are draining their batteries under this . . . it's one thing to say you like it better this way.  It's another to try to say this takes less planning and before you had to plan your entire day - you're planning on your phone a lot more than you were before - it's just during your trip rather than before it.  And frankly - if you want to ride more than one headliner - you better plan out your day in advance anyway and study the trends on what rides go at what pace to make sure you can do what you want.  This will in the aggregate take a lot more work and a lot more planning to get full benefit from this.  And if you're not planning on staying in one park from rope drop until end of day (mid-day break?  arrive late?  want to hop to another park for dinner?) you're really going to have to do a lot more work than before.


----------



## LSUfan4444

Disturbia said:


> I meant you don’t have to hop.  Just select the park you’re going to as your park for the day.  Genie asks you what you’re planning to do that day and you don’t select hopping
> 
> https://*****.com/2021/10/guide-park-hopping-with-disney-genie-at-walt-disney-world/
> View attachment 615104


 Pretty sure what she is saying is she can't hop to a park she doesnt have a park reservation for until she goes to her first park. So although she could add G+ reservations, she can't get in the second park until she goes to the first park.


----------



## Orsino

Disturbia said:


> I meant you don’t have to hop.  Just select the park you’re going to as your park for the day.  Genie asks you what you’re planning to do that day and what hours you’ll be there


Whoa! This is new information for me. Are you saying that if you indicate your times in the park on Genie, then Genie+ will serve up LL times that fit?


----------



## leeniewdw

Disturbia said:


> I meant you don’t have to hop.  Just select the park you’re going to as your park for the day.  Genie asks you what you’re planning to do that day and what hours you’ll be there
> 
> https://*****.com/2021/10/guide-park-hopping-with-disney-genie-at-walt-disney-world/
> View attachment 615104



Yes, but then I wouldn't be able to select an LL at 7am.  I'd have to wait until afternoon slots are open for selecting.  It would prevent me from using my morning time to stack up > 1 LL.


Orsino said:


> No. You don't have to wait!
> The current state of things has Disney doing something logical for once. If you have Epcot as your park reservation and have hopping on your ticket, when you book Genie+ for DHS, it will automatically serve up times after 2PM.



Yes, I understand that.  The problem is, if we're not getting to the parks until 2:30 or 3pm and we STILL have to go to the park where the reservation is first, it's just a colossal waste of time.    I agree the 2pm thing is smart for park hoppers, but it's not great for people who aren't arriving into the parks until afternoon on arrival day.  




LSUfan4444 said:


> If HS is your second park you should be able to see return time windows only available after 2pm so it can make things easier to see whats available after you land.
> 
> Look how many people here are directing their attention to adding their G+ first thing in the morning to try and grab a second one earlier. Those looking in the afternoons should be able to do pretty well.



But we still will have to tap into park #1.   For people already losing a half day+ in the parks on arrival day, having to tap in is a time waster.  I realize this is a specific situation.


----------



## Disturbia

snikki said:


> I think Remy will be standby within the next few weeks.


I think it’s less likely as there is no room on that area of the park to have a long standby line


----------



## MomDoc_99

Someone above said you can split up your group and get one G+ pass for some and a different one for others, then come back and get the next G+ pass for everyone.

The question I have is, "How easy or difficult will it be to get different G+ passes for the 2 different groups at a similar enough time to make it actually work?" With FP+ it was usually easy since you could pick your own time. With G+, not so sure.


----------



## Jennasis

The 7am time doesn't bother me. As a farm owner we are typically up at 6am daily. No amount of laying in bed will cause me to fall back asleep...even in vacation. So I often grab my phone and just lay there checking email and what not.  So using that time at 7 am to buy and book G+ if I think we need it or purchase the ILL$ isn't a problem for us.  I very much acknowledge that it is a huge deal for others.



I'm kind of over Lightning Lame though. 

That wasn't a typo.


----------



## LSUfan4444

DavidNYC said:


> And if you're not planning on staying in one park from rope drop until end of day (mid-day break? arrive late? want to hop to another park for dinner?) you're really going to have to do a lot more work than before.




Only if you try to build your G+ portfolio before lunch. Most of what you said about being on the phone all day and refrsshing can be avoiding by planning and focusing your G+, and ILL strategy to where you are hopping to, not from.  Anything you get in the first oark two hours after it opens is a bonus. Those who rope drop will yield the most success in that first park since wait times are the lowest.

Rope drop + hopping to where your G+ and ILLs are waiting will allow guests who commit to the afternoon and evenings will make things easier for alot of guests...not all, but alot. The earlier guests plan their G+ the more they will be on their phones and just waiting for the one big time jump for something they really want to do and are now forced to wait for something in a place they don't want to wait.


----------



## leeniewdw

Orsino said:


> Whoa! This is new information for me. Are you saying that if you indicate your times in the park on Genie, then Genie+ will serve up LL times that fit?



If you have a park hopper pass and try to select a park/ride that is not in your "park with reservation" it will automatically know you can't go there until 2pm, so they won't serve up the timeslot before then.


----------



## LSUfan4444

leeniewdw said:


> But we still will have to tap into park #1.   For people already losing a half day+ in the parks on arrival day, having to tap in is a time waster.  I realize this is a specific situation.



I understand but there is no way to plan around the park reservation. You have to chose the best method for you.

Attend the park you made a reservation for and stay there with less options for G+ windows that fit your schedule OR go to a park, scan in and move to the park where your G+ are better suited for your itinerary.


----------



## michaeldorn1

ande2428 said:


> Looks like we can (phew - as I have built up quite a pile of them):  https://blogmickey.com/2021/10/how-to-purchase-an-individual-lightning-lane-with-disney-genie/


Thanks for the link, but I didn't see a mention of gift cards as payment, unless I missed it.  Truth be told, I didn't actually read Every word though.  LOL


----------



## Jrb1979

leeniewdw said:


> Yes, but then I wouldn't be able to select an LL at 7am.  I'd have to wait until afternoon slots are open for selecting.  It would prevent me from using my morning time to stack up > 1 LL.
> 
> 
> Yes, I understand that.  The problem is, if we're not getting to the parks until 2:30 or 3pm and we STILL have to go to the park where the reservation is first, it's just a colossal waste of time.    I agree the 2pm thing is smart for park hoppers, but it's not great for people who aren't arriving into the parks until afternoon on arrival day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But we still will have to tap into park #1.   For people already losing a half day+ in the parks on arrival day, having to tap in is a time waster.  I realize this is a specific situation.


IMO for those that arrive late why not reserve the park you want to be in for the day. It makes no sense to book a park you don't want to go if you aren't arriving til mid afternoon.


----------



## Disturbia

LSUfan4444 said:


> You can if there is something available at 11 am. But, alot of people booking test Track at 7am will take those 2pm time windows and thats one reason those time windows jump to like 4:30/5pm on the more popular G+ attractions.


Everyone is reporting low wait times at MK in the am except a select few rides, so I guess book Test track first, ride standby at MK and then book JC at 11 am


----------



## Orsino

leeniewdw said:


> Yes, I understand that. The problem is, if we're not getting to the parks until 2:30 or 3pm and we STILL have to go to the park where the reservation is first, it's just a colossal waste of time. I agree the 2pm thing is smart for park hoppers, but it's not great for people who aren't arriving into the parks until afternoon on arrival day.


Ah. Unfortunately, my expectation is that the times later than 2PM won't really happen until the wave of users push it back. If you can't use 2PM, then you might as well not bother with the park hop hack. Just book your regular park day and wait for times to push to 3 or whatever it is you need. I don't think hopping would help you in this case.


----------



## leeniewdw

LSUfan4444 said:


> I understand but there is no way to plan around the park reservation. You have to chose the best method for you.
> 
> Attend the park you made a reservation for and stay there with less options for G+ windows that fit your schedule OR go to a park, scan in and move to the park where your G+ are better suited for your itinerary.



Yes, that's the choice.  Now to be the one to decide how we do it   OR try to explain to 5 other people and let them chime in.  It will only take me an hour to explain how it all works!!!


----------



## leeniewdw

Jrb1979 said:


> IMO for those that arrive late why not reserve the park you want to be in for the day. It makes no sense to book a park you don't want to go if you aren't arriving til mid afternoon.



I agree with this.  At the same time, it likely means not being able to get as many LLs to use (as well as hoping airplane wifi doesn't screw me over too!)


----------



## Disturbia

leeniewdw said:


> Yes, but then I wouldn't be able to select an LL at 7am.  I'd have to wait until afternoon slots are open for selecting.  It would prevent me from using my morning time to stack up > 1 LL.
> 
> 
> Yes, I understand that.  The problem is, if we're not getting to the parks until 2:30 or 3pm and we STILL have to go to the park where the reservation is first, it's just a colossal waste of time.    I agree the 2pm thing is smart for park hoppers, but it's not great for people who aren't arriving into the parks until afternoon on arrival day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But we still will have to tap into park #1.   For people already losing a half day+ in the parks on arrival day, having to tap in is a time waster.  I realize this is a specific situation.


Change your reservation to your second park.  You don’t have to park hop even if you have park hopers; unless *there are no reservations left?*

Maybe I’m understanding the situation incorrectly.  You’re planning on going to a park 1-2 pm and then hopping to another?


----------



## LSUfan4444

leeniewdw said:


> Yes, that's the choice.  Now to be the one to decide how we do it   OR try to explain to 5 other people and let them chime in.  It will only take me an hour to explain how it all works!!!


Im with you there. I've got a group of 5 as well. I just told them to trust me and that I wouldnt ask them to give me anymore money I am not willing to spend myself.


----------



## LSUfan4444

Disturbia said:


> Change your reservation to your second park


Then you have to refresh looking for available times...for those flying in and unable to be on the phone that isn't really an option. if you're driving in and can sit in the passenger seat and just refresh all day, that definitely makes sense.


----------



## Avery&Todd

michaeldorn1 said:


> Thanks for the link, but I didn't see a mention of gift cards as payment, unless I missed it.  Truth be told, I didn't actually read Every word though.  LOL


it shows that you can enter gift card information here:


----------



## DavidNYC

Miffy said:


> Here's a positive thought about the complexity of the new Genie/G+/ILL$ system: The more complicated it is, the less likely it is that an unprepared guest will know how to use it or even know that they _can_ use it. Therefore, for those of us in the know, we will have a distinct advantage, much like the advantage we had with FP+.
> 
> It was my experience that a heckuva lot of park visitors didn't know how to use FP+, didn't know they _could _use it, didn't know it existed, didn't know it was free, etc., etc., etc. Despite the fact that WDW resort guests were always informed about FP+ after booking and many times after that--especially on the day they could actually start booking FP+s--yet many people weren't taking advantage of it.
> 
> I expect Genie et al. will be the same. Those of us who've studied up will have an advantage over the people who don't know, don't understand, or can't be bothered.
> 
> Does this mean that I like that it's so complicated? No, I do not. But I also suspect (and I hope I'm wrong) it's possible there's an underlying reason for the complexity, and I won't be at all surprised when, a few weeks or a few months from now, WDW starts selling something like Uni's FOL pass and charging $250 or $300 per person, per day for it. It will be simple and straightforward: Ride everything everywhere with instant LL access. Ride as many times as you want, with the exception of the headliners, which you can ride only once. Period. Besides the convenience, the simplicity of this will be a huge selling point. Would I buy this? Certainly not.


Absolutely - we're already seeing some of the strategies and potential loopholes come into play.  It's very clear to me that - just like under the old system - those who study up and know how to use it best will be able to get a lot more out of it.  The main advantage for the unprepared is that you can get one of the higher demand rides day of - but you still need to be prepared enough to know you need to be up at 7am to do that.   Waiting to see what this is like on a weekend in a few weeks when more people are using this - return times for most rides were reasonable yesterday - but may have a lot of unhappy people if we get to a point where the majority of rides are giving you evening return times by late morning - that will really hem you in to a schedule you may not want.


----------



## pinnypanny

For hopping, can I switch back and forth for which park I want to get a LL in?

Since slinky dog is going so fast. I would want to get an afternoon one first thing in the morning, then rope drop another park and then start getting LL in that park, and then after leaving that park go back to trying to get LL in HS for the evening.


----------



## leeniewdw

Disturbia said:


> Change your reservation to your second park



Interesting (if I'm understanding the idea here)



LSUfan4444 said:


> Then you have to refresh looking for available times...for those flying in and unable to be on the phone that isn't really an option. if you're driving in and can sit in the passenger seat and just refresh all day, that definitely makes sense.



I think the suggestion is, once I've made the LL selections using the park hopping post 2pm way.  Then change my park reservation TO that park.   That's brilliant if it works!


----------



## LSUfan4444

leeniewdw said:


> Interesting (if I'm understanding the idea here)
> 
> 
> 
> I think the suggestion is, once I've made the LL selections using the park hopping post 2pm way.  Then change my park reservation TO that park.   That's brilliant if it works!


Agreed...good idea, subject to availability. I would definitely make sure you're prepared to still go to the first park if the park you want to hop to sells out. Not as popular now as it was but I'd still be prepared.


----------



## DisneyKidds

OhDannyBoy said:


> Because they rather you rent their crappy recharge battery.


Disney picked up on that “revenue opportunity” several years ago.  Monetization is nothing new.  Electricity, FP…air in the parks at some point.  I’m surprised they still let you use an outlet and plug in if you can find one.  Sooner or later they will have their own outlets (kinda like going to Europe) so you have to buy their plugs!


----------



## LSUfan4444

pinnypanny said:


> For hopping, can I switch back and forth for which park I want to get a LL in?
> 
> Since slinky dog is going so fast. I would want to get an afternoon one first thing in the morning, then rope drop another park and then start getting LL in that park, and then after leaving that park go back to trying to get LL in HS for the evening.


Yes..so long as the time between selections (120 minutes after park open and then 120 minutes after that, etc etc etc) has passed, you can do that.


----------



## DavidNYC

LSUfan4444 said:


> I think ya'll are both saying the same thing and are both correct.
> 
> When you log on at 7am you can book your first G+ to your second (third or fourth park) and when you do the return windows begin when you can actually hop so there is no need to refresh or wait for a time window in the afternoon. I mean, if you want something a 4 or 5 or 6 pm you may have to refresh a little but not all day as if the windows started at 9am.
> 
> You can then book your second G+ two hours after your first park opens, again two hours after that, etc.


What this will do is almost recreate the strategy of people who made 3 FP+ reservations for their afternoon park and did standby at the first park.  I think this will be a very popular strategy for many people (me included depending on which park I'm starting with and hopping to).


----------



## michaeldorn1

Avery&Todd said:


> it shows that you can enter gift card information here:
> 
> View attachment 615108


That is a great screen shot!!!  Thank you!  Great to know.  We have been building up a bunch of gc's for our coming trip next Summer and glad to know they can be used this way too!


----------



## DisneyKidds

Disturbia said:


> If you miss your Genie+ (There is a 14 min confirmed grace period) then you can’t ride it again


14 minutes is the latest anyone posted about the last few days, do we know that is a hard limit?


----------



## leeniewdw

LSUfan4444 said:


> Agreed...good idea, subject to availability. I would definitely make sure you're prepared to still go to the first park if the park you want to hop to sells out. Not as popular now as it was but I'd still be prepared.



So this begs the question -- forget the arrival day stuff.  If you select post-2pm LLs, there is no guarantee you can hop if that park fills and they don't allow it, correct?

We're traveling 2/17-2/20, and 2/21 is Pres Day.   We're not in the parks on Sunday, 2/21 so hoping we don't have to deal with park hopping issues, but should probably keep it mind for Saturday.


----------



## Disturbia

LSUfan4444 said:


> Then you have to refresh looking for available times...for those flying in and unable to be on the phone that isn't really an option. if you're driving in and can sit in the passenger seat and just refresh all day, that definitely makes sense.


Yes, you have to do that either way if you want to ride headliners


----------



## Avery&Todd

michaeldorn1 said:


> That is a great screen shot!!!  Thank you!  Great to know.  We have been building up a bunch of gc's for our coming trip next Summer and glad to know they can be used this way too!


you're welcome!  and as a hint, I used a gift card for paying for mobile food orders, but instead of having to whip out my gift card each time I typed the #s in a "notes" file I have saved on my phone and then I just copy/pasted those numbers into the check out screen and it worked perfectly!

have fun on your trip and happy spending!


----------



## Disturbia

leeniewdw said:


> So this begs the question -- forget the arrival day stuff.  If you select post-2pm LLs, there is no guarantee you can hop if that park fills and they don't allow it, correct?
> 
> We're traveling 2/17-2/20, and 2/21 is Pres Day.   We're not in the parks on Sunday, 2/21 so hoping we don't have to deal with park hopping issues, but should probably keep it mind for Saturday.


That’s rare and only happened on 10/1


----------



## DavidNYC

Orsino said:


> Whoa! This is new information for me. Are you saying that if you indicate your times in the park on Genie, then Genie+ will serve up LL times that fit?


I do not believe the times you indicate affect what Genie+ offers at all - just what the free Genie service recommends.  BUT - if you try to select a Genie+ selection at a park you do not have a reservation for - it will only show you times starting at 2pm as you are not allowed in the park before then.  Presumably - although I have no data to back this up - it starts at 2pm and moves up sequentially just as the times for the park you have a reservation for will start at 9am and move up sequentially (with the caveat there are some random fluctuations due to cancellations or the system rejiggering inventory).


----------



## SCDisneyfanatic

DisneyKidds said:


> Never?  Not even a powder day or for an early low tide (better for surfing)?


That was a quote from the guy I was responding to.  For me, always up early.  And years ago when I was avid surfer I would get up at 0400 to drive 2 hours to Wrightsville Beach from Myrtle Beach just to hit high tide at 0600 while the sun was coming up!!  Awesome adventure!


----------



## DavidNYC

Disturbia said:


> Everyone is reporting low wait times at MK in the am except a select few rides, so I guess book Test track first, ride standby at MK and then book JC at 11 am



Here's your issue based on times I'm seeing today.  If you book TT at 7am you're likely to get a return time of 2 or 3 pm.    It's 11am now - the return time for Jungle Cruise is 2:40 - you're not making your TT reservation . . ..  What this requires you to do (which was one of my major complaints) is to do your plan you have to monitor the phone until you can get a TT even later in the day and then cross your fingers that at 11am the JC return time doesn't conflict . . . (and this is a low crowd day - as crowds get bigger will be much harder to book your first ride at a hopper park and your second ride at your reservation park.)  I'm sure you'll have some choices that work - but again - only the people who have done advanced research to know, for example, what will the likely return time for JC be at 11am.   Again - this caters to people who are happy to just have Disney plan their day.  If you're set on specific rides - you're at the mercy of the return times that day.


----------



## jrsharp21

Not going to lie, thought I had pretty good grasp of the system going through the posts the first day and most of the day after that G+ started. But after reading the past few pages about hopping, being on a plane and booking, etc, my head hurts now and now feel like I have no idea of what is going on. LOL.


----------



## Suzabella

Noticed the character calvcades and things like The Dapper Dans are listed on the Tip Board today.  Pretty sure that's new.  Hoping they keep making changes that make this thing better.


----------



## LSUfan4444

leeniewdw said:


> So this begs the question -- forget the arrival day stuff.  If you select post-2pm LLs, there is no guarantee you can hop if that park fills and they don't allow it, correct?
> 
> We're traveling 2/17-2/20, and 2/21 is Pres Day.   We're not in the parks on Sunday, 2/21 so hoping we don't have to deal with park hopping issues, but should probably keep it mind for Saturday.



While it is possible, it is less likely than a park closing to no more reservations. I have not heard of one park not allowing hopping since the 2pm rule was announced. Maybe it has happened but the last time I looked into it for our July 4 trip, it had not happened once.


----------



## Disturbia

leeniewdw said:


> Yes, but then I wouldn't be able to select an LL at 7am.  I'd have to wait until afternoon slots are open for selecting.  It would prevent me from using my morning time to stack up > 1 LL.
> 
> 
> Yes, I understand that.  The problem is, if we're not getting to the parks until 2:30 or 3pm and we STILL have to go to the park where the reservation is first, it's just a colossal waste of time.    I agree the 2pm thing is smart for park hoppers, but it's not great for people who aren't arriving into the parks until afternoon on arrival day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But we still will have to tap into park #1.   For people already losing a half day+ in the parks on arrival day, having to tap in is a time waster.  I realize this is a specific situation.



You have to wait until rides are next available at 2 pm; which we should be able to estimate based on recent reports; say at 11 am the next abailable for Soarin is 3 pm.  I think you’re at a risk if you book a headliner and can’t make it as Genie+ won’t let you book it again.  

Why not just make a LLIA$ for the evening and the see at 11 am when you’re closer to your destination what is available


----------



## LSUfan4444

Disturbia said:


> Yes, you have to do that either way if you want to ride headliners


Not nearly as much if you're booking your second park because the time windows start so much later. You're literally saving a half day of refreshing.


----------



## Disturbia

DavidNYC said:


> Here's your issue based on times I'm seeing today.  If you book TT at 7am you're likely to get a return time of 2 or 3 pm.    It's 11am now - the return time for Jungle Cruise is 2:40 - you're not making your TT reservation . . ..  What this requires you to do (which was one of my major complaints) is to do your plan you have to monitor the phone until you can get a TT even later in the day and then cross your fingers that at 11am the JC return time doesn't conflict . . .


That’s why we need to know what passes and when to book; we should get a guesstimate soon; keep watching videos of reports from bloggers


----------



## rmclain73

This is the best video I have seen thus far.


----------



## Disturbia

LSUfan4444 said:


> Not nearly as much if you're booking your second park because the time windows start so much later. You're literally saving a half day of refreshing.


But travel time between parks is like an hour+. Seems like a waste of time


----------



## Orsino

This whole hop hack thing has my mind thinking of exploits. Question: if I book AK with a 8am opening and book a LL at MK via hop which opens at 9am, when is the next LL available to book?


----------



## Disturbia

LSUfan4444 said:


> Then you have to refresh looking for available times...for those flying in and unable to be on the phone that isn't really an option. if you're driving in and can sit in the passenger seat and just refresh all day, that definitely makes sense.


I’d rather be refreshing than relying on Disney transportation


----------



## Disturbia

Orsino said:


> This whole hop hack thing has my mind thinking of exploits. Question: if I book AK with a 8am opening and book a LL at MK via hop which opens at 9am, when is the next LL available to book?


Based on first park opening, 10 am if you booked one at 7 am

so at 7 am you get Navi River 8-9 am; at 10 am you could book 2 pmBig Thunder

you ride Navi and can get another pass right after second turnstile scan (say 8:10 am), book 8:15-9:15 am safari. I’m not 100% sure if you can do this with a 2 pm or it makes you wait another 2 hours so at 12?


----------



## DavidNYC

Disturbia said:


> That’s why we need to know what passes and when to book; we should get a guesstimate soon; keep watching videos of reports from bloggers


Absolutely - this system will favor those who have done a lot of research to understand the typical time trends for rides just like the prior system favored those who understood other things.  I expect Touring Plans and other services will be frantically monitoring how fast all of the return times move up for every ride to be able to provide LL reservation strategies and priorities.   And obviously we'll have to see how this works on weekends, and then holidays, etc.


----------



## LSUfan4444

Disturbia said:


> But travel time between parks is like an hour+. Seems like a waste of time



Thats the decision. Spend an hour to travel between parks OR save that hour and potentially spend that (and more) in longer stamdby lines and waiting for the only G+ you were able to get.



> I’d rather be refreshing than relying on Disney transportation



Also, depends on what resort..access to skyliner? Ferries? Can you walk? Uber? Etc.  All of that should come into play, no doubt

All of that though, I put on the stupid park reservation system, not G+. That does NOTHING for the guest and except create commitments, give up flexibility and add inconveniences.


----------



## DisneyKidds

Can someone elaborate on this “tapping in” thing people keep referring to?  Is that a G+ thing, a park hopping thing, or both?

Say I use G+.  Make a LL reservation at 7am with a return of 11:30am.  I could make a second LL reservation (stack) when the park opens at 9am, right?  Do I have to actually tap into the park to be able to do that, or can I do it from my hotel (for example if I’m sleeping in/eating/getting work done)?

I haven’t done park hopping since the reservation and 2pm park hop rules went into  effect.  Say we have reservations in the MK with the intent to hop to Epcot after 2pm.  Me and the boys, for example, stick to the plan but wife and and daughter decide to do a spa morning.  Can they not meet up with us in Epcot after 2pm unless they change their park reservation or actually go tap into the MK first?

I get the park reservation thing (well, not really anymore, but let’s forget that)…..but it seems like everyone should be free to go wherever they want after hopping “opens” at 2pm, regardless of what they did before that.


----------



## snikki

I thought I had most of G+ figured out but now my head is spinning.

Ok I understand that G+ will only show me LLs for after 2 pm if I’m hoping if I put that into my day plans. Got it.

So you’re telling me that if my park reservation is at DHS and I put in G+ that I’m hoping to MK, G+ will let me make a LL at Splash at 7 am for 2:30 pm even though people that actually have MK park reservations can only book next available which would be 9 am???

I thought I would have to wait for the window of 2 pm and after to open for everyone.


----------



## DisneyKidds

Disturbia said:


> so at 7 am you get Navi River 8-9 am; at 10 am you could book 2 pmBig Thunder


In this example do I need to populate a (free) Genie itinerary for the system to know to offer me MK rides, or do I have the ability to search for and reserve a ride in the MK without setting up an itinerary?  I really have no intention in setting up a general Genie itinerary.  I don’t need their stupid recommendations and hope I’m able to use G+ without.


----------



## Disturbia

Jrb1979 said:


> IMO for those that arrive late why not reserve the park you want to be in for the day. It makes no sense to book a park you don't want to go if you aren't arriving til mid afternoon.


This is what we are doing but we’re not going to the park until 5:30 pm (Epcot) on our travel day, so we will book Remy and Frozen at 7 am and have Space220 and fireworks (9:45 pm).   Rest of the time we will enjoy food booths and maybe low wait rides.


----------



## DisneyFive

Orsino said:


> I agree. I've been contemplating if a strategy would work for us on arrival day, but the "need to tap in" requirement messes it all up. Not worth it.
> If I were staying at Beach Club or Boardwalk, I could see doing it for DHS since tapping Epcot would be so easy. Otherwise, I don't think the strategy makes sense for us.


Depending on where you are going for your “hopped to”  park it may not be that bad. For example if you want Epcot to be your park, simply choose Magic Kingdom as your reserved park. Tap in at MK then walk over to the mono rail and just ride that over to Epcot. Same goes for Epcot and Hollywood studios with the friendship boats or Skyliner. Really not that much of a hassle to go between those two parks either.

Animal kingdom is the tough one to hop to from any park.  Same between HS and MK

Dan


----------



## LSUfan4444

snikki said:


> So you’re telling me that if my park reservation is at DHS and I put in G+ that I’m hoping to MK, G+ will let me make a LL at Splash at 7 am for 2:30 pm even though people that actually have MK park reservations can only book next available which would be 9 am???


Yep...if they want a 2pm Splash as their first they have to wait till they see that window become available.


----------



## DavidNYC

Disturbia said:


> Based on first park opening, 10 am if you booked one at 7 am
> 
> so at 7 am you get Navi River 8-9 am; at 10 am you could book 2 pmBig Thunder
> 
> you ride Navi and can get another pass right after second turnstile scan (say 8:10 am), book 8:15-9:15 am safari


With the caveat you can only book a ride at MK at 10am if you don't make another reservation at AK after Navi that sets that has reset your next reservation clock (such as if you book a ride that you don't scan into until after 10am).  If you book Safari under the example above and in fact scan in at 9am or so - you're OK for the 10am MK reservation).


----------



## snikki

DavidNYC said:


> The only reason you're OK with FOP and SDMT is if you now pay per person for them . . . so I'd debate many people are better off.  But at least I understand the value of that - I just don't like the idea of it for Disney.  For SDD?  Better be up at 7am to get your pass for that or you'll be riding at the end of the day . . . and now you'll be likely stuck in that park and losing the ability to hop because of how late your ride it - hope you weren't planning on doing that.  And we're also already seeing the reports on how fast people are draining their batteries under this . . . it's one thing to say you like it better this way.  It's another to try to say this takes less planning and before you had to plan your entire day - you're planning on your phone a lot more than you were before - it's just during your trip rather than before it.  And frankly - if you want to ride more than one headliner - you better plan out your day in advance anyway and study the trends on what rides go at what pace to make sure you can do what you want.  This will in the aggregate take a lot more work and a lot more planning to get full benefit from this.  And if you're not planning on staying in one park from rope drop until end of day (mid-day break?  arrive late?  want to hop to another park for dinner?) you're really going to have to do a lot more work than before.



I have never used G+ and I’m not saying it’s the greatest thing ever but I think you are really over complicating it. I personally loved FP+ but I believe both systems have their pros and cons. One thing I disliked about FP+ was if I decided to change parks and had tier 1 FP+ I probably wasn’t getting it another day. I don’t go to Disney that often (every 2-3 years) so I’m ok paying for convenience. If I went often and it was my only vacation destination I would probably be annoyed. Every other theme park charges a lot more for this same “perk.” Six flags is $90 per day minimum.


----------



## Disturbia

LSUfan4444 said:


> Yep...if they want a 2pm Splash as their first they have to wait till they see that window become available.


so if you want to guarantee and are arriving to the parks at noon; this makes sense, but the risk is if you have transportation delays you can’t cancel or change this pass; once 3:14 pm passes, you can’t rebook Splash


----------



## LSUfan4444

DisneyFive said:


> Depending on where you are going for your “hopped to”  park it may not be that bad. For example if you want Epcot to be your park, simply choose Magic Kingdom as your reserved park. Tap in at MK then walk over to the mono rail and just ride that over to Epcot. Same goes for Epcot and Hollywood studios with the friendship boats or Skyliner. Really not that much of a hassle to go between those two parks either.
> 
> Animal kingdom is the tough one to hop to from any park.  Same between HS and MK
> 
> Dan


Right...I think the MK/Epcot Combo, Obviously HS/EP works well and probably AK/MK to some degree won't be that bad since getting to MK is a PIA for everyone.


----------



## snikki

LSUfan4444 said:


> Yep...if they want a 2pm Splash as their first they have to wait till they see that window become available.



How about if you want a 5 pm at splash? Lol. How does that work at 7 am for the park you are hopping to? Do you wait for that availability to show up or will multiple times show up?


----------



## DisneyFive

One thing that I really hope G+ does is remove the crush of crowds at rope drop. It’s been crazy without FP+ or G+.  Rope drop was a huge negative difference for us this past July/August.  When everything was standby, the cat was out of the bag, and people knew that you had to get to the park 30 minutes to an hour early in order to ride the top headliners with low(ish) waits.

At least with G+, at 7am having the ability to pre-book an attraction for later in the morning, hopefully allows some people to sleep in and not feel the need to jam the parks right at opening. This will allow standby wait to be low like they used to be for the first hour or so. At this is my hope.

Dan


----------



## DavidNYC

DisneyKidds said:


> Can someone elaborate on this “tapping in” thing people keep referring to?  Is that a G+ thing, a park hopping thing, or both?
> 
> Say I use G+.  Make a LL reservation at 7am with a return of 11:30am.  I could make a second LL reservation (stack) when the park opens at 9am, right?  Do I have to actually tap into the park to be able to do that, or can I do it from my hotel (for example if I’m sleeping in/eating/getting work done)?
> 
> I haven’t done park hopping since the reservation and 2pm park hop rules went into  effect.  Say we have reservations in the MK with the intent to hop to Epcot after 2pm.  Me and the boys, for example, stick to the plan but wife and and daughter decide to do a spa morning.  Can they not meet up with us in Epcot after 2pm unless they change their park reservation or actually go tap into the MK first?
> 
> I get the park reservation thing (well, not really anymore, but let’s forget that)…..but it seems like everyone should be free to go wherever they want after hopping “opens” at 2pm, regardless of what they did before that.



Tapping in means:
1.  When you tap into a ride that you have a LL booked for.  When you tap into a ride - you can make your next reservation.
2.  When you tap into a park.  You have to tap into your reservation park in order to be permitted to hop to another park.  So correct - your family cannot just meet you at Epcot at 2pm without either going to MK first or changing their reservation.

As for your first statement - the 120 minutes does not start to run until a park opens even if you make a reservation at 7am.  If you make a 7am reservation with an 11:30 return time, you can make your second reservation at 11am.  You can still make your second reservation if you have not tapped into the park.  If you enter the park and tap into your 11:30 reservation, you can then make another reservation after you have tapped even though you also have the reservation you made at 11.


----------



## Disturbia

DavidNYC said:


> With the caveat you can only book a ride at MK at 10am if you don't make another reservation at AK after Navi that sets that has reset your next reservation clock (such as if you book a ride that you don't scan into until after 10am).  If you book Safari under the example above and in fact scan in at 9am or so - you're OK for the 10am MK reservation).


So after I ride Navi closer to 8 am, when can I book my next aK pass if I am holding the MK 2 pm pass (assuming I book this at 10 am); so no ride between 8am-10 am at AK and then at 10 am book MK?


----------



## LSUfan4444

This is why I think I can even find value in an evening at Epcot. 

I can start in HS (staying at boardwalk), eat lunch in my room rather than in the park (and that pays for G+ and ILL for that day). My 7am G+ can be for Test Track at 4pm or so and when I am eating lunch look to book something for Soarin and have a Remy ILL for the evening.

At rope drop for HS we can choose to knock out ToT, RNR, and TSMM or maybe Smugglers Run, Star Tours, TSMM, etc. all standy


----------



## MickeyMice

LSUfan4444 said:


> Then you have to refresh looking for available times...for those flying in and unable to be on the phone that isn't really an option. if you're driving in and can sit in the passenger seat and just refresh all day, that definitely makes sense.


what if you book your afternoon G+ LLs at your real park while you have a reservation at another park, and then change your park reservation after?

no idea if this will work, just throwing it out there


----------



## LSUfan4444

snikki said:


> How about if you want a 5 pm at splash? Lol. How does that work at 7 am for the park you are hopping to? Do you wait for that availability to show up or will multiple times show up?


You would have to wait for that...just not as long as those people who start their day in MK since your windows begin a half day later.


----------



## DavidNYC

DisneyFive said:


> One thing that I really hope G+ does is remove the crush of crowds at rope drop. It’s been crazy without FP+ or G+.  Rope drop was a huge negative difference for us this past July/August.  When everything was standby, the cat was out of the bag, and people knew that you had to get to the park 30 minutes to an hour early in order to ride the top headliners with low(ish) waits.
> 
> At least with G+, at 7am having the ability to pre-book an attraction for later in the morning, hopefully allows some people to sleep in and not feel the need to jam the parks right at opening. This will allow standby wait to be low like they used to be for the first hour or so. At this is my hope.
> 
> Dan


I don't see that happening.  In fact - I think the case for being at the parks at rope drop has increased substantially with (1) the limitation of only being able to use LL once on each ride and (2) the most popular rides being standby only or paid LL.  But as it was in the past - there will be a massive rush to certain rides at each park and the rest of the rides will be walk-ons for the first hour.  Most of the people who are there for rope drop are heading to one of the rides they can't pre-book without paying or a popular ride that want to ride multiple times (or SDD).


----------



## Babars_Wife

So if you book at 7am a 3pm LL (not ILL). WIth a 9am opening, at 11am you can book another LL. Lets say you book that for 11:05. Once you scan into that you can book rolling LL, while holding your 3pm LL, until 3pm. At which point you scan into your 3pm LL and only have one rolling LL from thenceforth. Is that right?


----------



## Disturbia

You don’t have to wait 2 hours inbetween rides;

infact you can overlap say 9-10; ride at 9:15, grab a 9:15-10:15 Genie+ and keep going and pay for an overlapping SDMt 9:30-10:30


----------



## snikki

LSUfan4444 said:


> You would have to wait for that...just not as long as those people who start their day in MK since your windows begin a half day later.



Good to know! This will be interesting. We usually hop to park 2 around 4. I wish I could see how long it usually takes those rides to get later in the day if you’re hopping. I guess I’ll be reading more blogs!

Thank you for all your help in this thread!


----------



## LSUfan4444

DavidNYC said:


> I don't see that happening.  In fact - I think the case for being at the parks at rope drop has increased substantially with (1) the limitation of only being able to use LL once on each ride and (2) the most popular rides being standby only or paid LL.  But as it was in the past - there will be a massive rush to certain rides at each park and the rest of the rides will be walk-ons for the first hour.  Most of the people who are there for rope drop are heading to one of the rides they can't pre-book without paying or a popular ride that want to ride multiple times (or SDD).


There are likely to be 4 big groups of people
1 - Rope Droppers who want as much standby as possible because their G+ and ILLs are later in the day. 
2- Later arrivers who sleep in a bit and see no need to rush to Splash Mountain standby when they can G+ for the same (or lower) wait
3 - Phone zombies who look like they're from Walking Dead trying to accumulate every single G+ they can regardless of how much time it saves them in the end
4 - Those asking for the best way to get to MGM to ride the new Velocicoaster ride


----------



## DisneyFive

@LSUfan444

In that scenario, I wonder you would still be able to get at least one or two good headliners at HS with G+ at Hollywood studios, THEN book that test track for 4 PM at Epcot.

Anything to not wait in lines.  This past summer we got to Hollywood studios one hour before park open, rode TOT 30 minutes prior to official park opening, and by the time we got off TOT, rockin roller coaster already had a 30 minute standby wait and that was 16 minutes before official park opening. It just built from there

Dan


----------



## Disturbia

I love TWD btw.  And yes I’ll be no 3, but with a bow and arrow to slay Genie+

‘Naah’ just kidding - Daryl


----------



## DisneyKidds

DavidNYC said:


> Tapping in means:
> 1.  When you tap into a ride that you have a LL booked for.  When you tap into a ride - you can make your next reservation.
> 2.  When you tap into a park.  You have to tap into your reservation park in order to be permitted to hop to another park.  So correct - your family cannot just meet you at Epcot at 2pm without either going to MK first or changing their reservation.
> 
> As for your first statement - the 120 minutes does not start to run until a park opens even if you make a reservation at 7am.  If you make a 7am reservation with an 11:30 return time, you can make your second reservation at 11am.  You can still make your second reservation if you have not tapped into the park.  If you enter the park and tap into your 11:30 reservation, you can then make another reservation after you have tapped even though you also have the reservation you made at 11.


Thanks.  I understand the tapping in as it applies to LL.  It’s the requirements to tap into a park I was curious about.  That tapping into your reserved park before you can hop to another park is just plain stupid, if reservations in the “second” park aren’t available for someone who can’t tap into their reserved park for some reason.  It really takes any ability to be flexible with your day out of your hands.  Between losing the ability to make FP+ reservations and the  need to tap into a park you won’t stay in if you can’t change your reservation means we may never park hop again.  I know, 

However, for Disney, whose sole focus is now monetization and maximizing revenue, losing park hopper upgrade $$ over something stupid like this doesn’t make much sense.


----------



## pinnypanny

LSUfan4444 said:


> Yes..so long as the time between selections (120 minutes after park open and then 120 minutes after that, etc etc etc) has passed, you can do that.



Great! Thank you.


----------



## Duck143

rmclain73 said:


> This is the best video I have seen thus far.


Thanks Kyle!


----------



## LSUfan4444

DisneyFive said:


> @LSUfan444
> 
> In that scenario, I wonder you would still be able to get at least one or two good headliners at HS with G+ at Hollywood studios, THEN book that test track for 4 PM at Epcot.
> 
> Anything to not wait in lines.  This past summer we got to Hollywood studios one hour before park open, rode TOT 30 minutes prior to official park opening, and by the time we got off TOT, rockin roller coaster already had a 30 minute standby wait and that was 16 minutes before official park opening. It just built from there
> 
> Dan


Its possible and many people will try that by refreshing their phone and hoping they have availability and not something else they are already booked for when it becomes available. My approach will be book it early and keep my phone in my pocket. 

At some point, a window will be missed and now you'll be stuck waiting for whatever window you were able to get


----------



## DisneyKidds

snikki said:


> Six flags is $90 per day minimum.


True…..but a Six Flags daily admission or season pass isn’t anywhere near the stratosphere that Disney passes are in.


----------



## DisneyFive

DavidNYC said:


> I don't see that happening.  In fact - I think the case for being at the parks at rope drop has increased substantially with (1) the limitation of only being able to use LL once on each ride and (2) the most popular rides being standby only or paid LL.  But as it was in the past - there will be a massive rush to certain rides at each park *and the rest of the rides will be walk-ons for the first hour*.  Most of the people who are there for rope drop are heading to one of the rides they can't pre-book without paying or a popular ride that want to ride multiple times (or SDD).



Versus standby only, I can't see G+ and $LL doing anything other than helping reduce the rope drop crush.  With SB only, the ONLY way to ride with low wait was to be at rope drop (actually up to 1 hour earlier than that even), or right before park close.  Now with G+ and paid LL, guests can secure those coveted rides and not HAVE to be there at rope drop to have a low wait.

...and speaking from our experience this summer with SB only, there was no such thing as low waits for the first hour, like there used to be when FP+ was around.  You were able to get one headliner in with low wait.  By the time you got off that  it was 30 minutes or more for other headliners.  It was a marked difference from prior years when FP+ was around, when I would agree that the first hour truly had low waits.

Dan


----------



## Miffy

DisneyFive said:


> One thing that I really hope G+ does is remove the crush of crowds at rope drop. It’s been crazy without FP+ or G+.  Rope drop was a huge negative difference for us this past July/August.  When everything was standby, the cat was out of the bag, and people knew that you had to get to the park 30 minutes to an hour early in order to ride the top headliners with low(ish) waits.
> 
> At least with G+, at 7am having the ability to pre-book an attraction for later in the morning, hopefully allows some people to sleep in and not feel the need to jam the parks right at opening. This will allow standby wait to be low like they used to be for the first hour or so. At this is my hope.
> 
> Dan


You may be correct, but G/G+/ILL$ have convinced me that RDing is the only way to tour the parks right now and be guaranteed to get on the rides you want with little to no wait. Because as a resort guest I'll get EE (early entry) and will be able to ride maybe 2 rides, minimum, depending on the park, that have high demand later on.

I didn't feel this way with FP+ since my faves were booked ahead of time, however, this past May I found that RDing was the only way to avoid really long lines. That was without Genie. But seeing how the G+ times keep getting pushed forward--and in some cases getting sold out--


DisneyKidds said:


> Thanks.  I understand the tapping in as it applies to LL.  It’s the requirements to tap into a park I was curious about.  That tapping into your reserved park before you can hop to another park is just plain stupid, if reservations in the “second” park aren’t available for someone who can’t tap into their reserved park for some reason.  It really takes any ability to be flexible with your day out of your hands.  Between losing the ability to make FP+ reservations and the  need to tap into a park you won’t stay in if you can’t change your reservation means we may never park hop again.  I know,
> 
> However, for Disney, whose sole focus is now monetization and maximizing revenue, losing park hopper upgrade $$ over something stupid like this doesn’t make much sense.


One point missed here--apparently now you can cancel your park reservation and rebook to another park. I don't know if this solves your hypothetical dilemma, but perhaps it does?


----------



## Jrb1979

LSUfan4444 said:


> Its possible and many people will try that by refreshing their phone and hoping they have availability and not something else they are already booked for when it becomes available. My approach will be book it early and keep my phone in my pocket.
> 
> At some point, a window will be missed and now you'll be stuck waiting for whatever window you were able to get


The more I read and hear how Genie+ works, trying to plan out your day like it's FP+ doesn't work. Mainly cause you're not guaranteed to get the times that work for how you do the parks. 

Personally I hope they close that 2pm loop hole. It hurts those who don't park hop. It should be that you can't book rides in your 2nd park til after 2pm.


----------



## Miffy

DisneyFive said:


> Versus standby only, I can't see G+ and $LL doing anything other than helping reduce the rope drop crush.  With SB only, the ONLY way to ride with low wait was to be at rope drop (actually up to 1 hour earlier than that even), or right before park close.  Now with G+ and paid LL, guests can secure those coveted rides and not HAVE to be there at rope drop to have a low wait.
> 
> ...and speaking from our experience this summer with SB only, there was no such thing as low waits for the first hour, like there used to be when FP+ was around.  You were able to get one headliner in with low wait.  By the time you got off that  it was 30 minutes or more for other headliners.  It was a marked difference from prior years when FP+ was around, when I would agree that the first hour truly had low waits.
> 
> Dan


I wish you were correct, and I'm not prescient on this particular topic, but I'm guessing that RD is going to be as busy as ever, maybe even more so because that extra $15 for G+ seems like a lot of money to some people, for example, people with more than one other person in their group. A couple with three children would be spending $75 extra (plus tax, I believe) for park admission just to get G+. This could be a deal breaker, but RDing is free.


----------



## DisneyFive

Miffy said:


> You may be correct, but G/G+/ILL$ have convinced me that RDing is the only way to tour the parks right now and be guaranteed to get on the rides you want with little to no wait. Because as a resort guest I'll get EE (early entry) and will be able to ride maybe 2 rides, minimum, depending on the park, that have high demand later on.



The early park entry is a game changer versus how things were with SB only.   Only having onsite resort guests there will make that first 30 minutes much more useful.  Hopefully that, along with the help from prebooked G+ and paid LL, crowds won't be so nuts at rope drop like we experienced recently.

Dan


----------



## Disturbia

I’m still confused on using park hopping and using Genie+ in park 1.

So I book Jungle Cruise at 7 am for 9-10; ride pirates 9:15-10:20; ride Big Thunder 9:40-10:40; then at 11 am book a 2 pm Test track?  After booking that I can’t ride anything else with genie+ inbetween?  The 11 am has no relevance here with the 120 min rule (could as well have another pass 10:30-11:30).

at 7 am I book Test track for 2 pm.  Then I go to MK and can only book a Genie+ starting 11 am; here the 120 min from park opening applies; I can only do standby, no Genie+ 9 am-11 am.  When can I book Genie+ for any Mk rides? 11 am-2?


----------



## LSUfan4444

Jrb1979 said:


> The more I read and hear how Genie+ works, trying to plan out your day like it's FP+ doesn't work. Mainly cause you're not guaranteed to get the times that work for how you do the parks.
> 
> Personally I hope they close that 2pm loop hole. It hurts those who don't park hop. It should be that you can't book rides in your 2nd park til after 2pm.


I agree with alot of that too....using G+ to recreate FP+ will cause alot of frustration. You have to use G+ to beat current standby times, not FP+. 

FP+ is gone..it's a ghost.


----------



## DisneyKidds

Miffy said:


> One point missed here--apparently now you can cancel your park reservation and rebook to another park. I don't know if this solves your hypothetical dilemma, but perhaps it does?


It would, but ONLY if the park you want to rebook for has available reservations.


----------



## wisblue

DisneyFive said:


> One thing that I really hope G+ does is remove the crush of crowds at rope drop. It’s been crazy without FP+ or G+.  Rope drop was a huge negative difference for us this past July/August.  When everything was standby, the cat was out of the bag, and people knew that you had to get to the park 30 minutes to an hour early in order to ride the top headliners with low(ish) waits.
> 
> At least with G+, at 7am having the ability to pre-book an attraction for later in the morning, hopefully allows some people to sleep in and not feel the need to jam the parks right at opening. This will allow standby wait to be low like they used to be for the first hour or so. At this is my hope.
> 
> Dan



This Is a big one for me. My least favorite part of a Disney day is the crush to go to the most popular attractions during rope drop.

I don’t mind so much waiting for something to open because you can relax and chat with the people around you. But once the crowd starts moving toward an attraction like FOP or SDD, it is no longer fun. Cast members can control how fast the front of the crowd moves, but behind the number of people trying to run around the edges and cut in or elbow their way ahead of others is aggravating, if not physically dangerous.

I was able to avoid these things with FP+, and might be able to do it for some things with G+LL. But, for something like FOP, the cost of an IALL might be worth it to me just to avoid that whole scene. During Early Entry we can go at our own pace (brisk walking) to EE and Dinosaur with a lot less “company” and enjoy FOP later.

I haven’t had the ”pleasure” of doing a rope drop to ROTR because I was only there for the VQ days. But, I’m sure that’s at least as bad as FOP. So, for me, it will likely be IALL or nothing for that.


----------



## LSUfan4444

Disturbia said:


> I’m still confused on using park hopping and using Genie+ in park 1.
> 
> So I book Jungle Cruise at 7 am for 9-10; ride pirates 9:15-10:20; ride Big Thunder 9:40-10:40; then at 11 am book a 2 pm Test track?  After booking that I can’t ride anything else with genie+ inbetween?


I believe that to be the case. If your first is in park 1 you can book your next once you have second tapped on your first reservation (or 120 minutes after park opening - whichever comes first). Thats what I mean when I say...you're still waiting. Maybe not technically in a standby line but you're still waiting.



> at 7 am I book Test track for 2 pm.  Then I go to MK and can only book a Genie+ starting 11 am; here the 120 min from park opening applies; I can only do standby, no Genie+ 9 am-11 am.



As I understand it, that is correct, you can either chose to book something in MK at 11 am OR refresh until something pops up over in Epcot (which is more likely if you wait until later in the day)


----------



## DavidNYC

DisneyFive said:


> Versus standby only, I can't see G+ and $LL doing anything other than helping reduce the rope drop crush.  With SB only, the ONLY way to ride with low wait was to be at rope drop (actually up to 1 hour earlier than that even), or right before park close.  Now with G+ and paid LL, guests can secure those coveted rides and not HAVE to be there at rope drop to have a low wait.
> 
> ...and speaking from our experience this summer with SB only, there was no such thing as low waits for the first hour, like there used to be when FP+ was around.  You were able to get one headliner in with low wait.  By the time you got off that  it was 30 minutes or more for other headliners.  It was a marked difference from prior years when FP+ was around, when I would agree that the first hour truly had low waits.
> 
> Dan


There are still going to be HUGE numbers of people who know the only way they'll ride FoP or SDD or RoR or several others without paying is to do rope drop.  And there will be large numbers of people who want to do certain rides multiple times and the only way they can do that is rope drop.  Even with FP+, there were huge crowds at rope drop for the most popular rides.  But also as I said, if rope drop and hit the 2nd tier rides - you can get 3-4 in before the times get to that 30+ minute mark.  Rope Drop is a way of life - those who do it will continue to do it.  The reasons and benefits are all still there whether it was FP+, standby only or LL.  Nothing has changed.  It won't be horrible now because we're still relatively light crowds but expect to see the 2+ hour standby lines for those headliners early in the day before they level off.


----------



## MainMom

Jrb1979 said:


> I'm so surprised so many trying to use Genie+ like FP+ by trying to book their 3 most important rides each day. Booking rides at your 2nd park first makes no sense. Doing that you're most likely only getting 3 LL a day. Why pay $15 for only 3 rides.


It depends on how you tour. We take a mid day break since we go in the summer. I’ve figured out my main problem with genie+ & the way my family tours is not being able to make a second genie+ at 9am (2 hours after 7am) vs 11am. Making a second at 11 doesn’t really help me as we RD and are probably eating lunch around that time & then we head out for a break. Now if the parks open at 8 and I could book a second at 10 AND there was good availability then…maybe. If they change anything I hope it’s the 2 hour after park open restriction, but I’m not holding my breath. I do see how genie+ could be great for those who stay in the park all day. It seems those customers get the most. That’s just not us in the summer.


----------



## hedg12

DisneyKidds said:


> It really takes any ability to be flexible with your day out of your hands.



Yep, that pretty much sums it up. That's the direction Disney's been heading for quite some time - fast pass +, ADR's, park reservations, and now this mess. Wondering how long it will be before you have to schedule your bathroom breaks in advance...

We have a trip planned for January with the extended family (10 total this time) and thinking about how this will affect things is really making me think about skipping it all together and letting someone else worry about it.


----------



## leeniewdw

Disturbia said:


> You have to wait until rides are next available at 2 pm; which we should be able to estimate based on recent reports; say at 11 am the next abailable for Soarin is 3 pm.  I think you’re at a risk if you book a headliner and can’t make it as Genie+ won’t let you book it again.
> 
> Why not just make a LLIA$ for the evening and the see at 11 am when you’re closer to your destination what is available



This may be what we do just to be on the safe(r) side.  We're all flying in and 2 coming from a diff originating airport, so trying to commando in a compressed schedule probably doesn't make sense...especially if we get locked out of a headliner.


----------



## amylevan

MainMom said:


> It depends on how you tour. We take a mid day break since we go in the summer. I’ve figured out my main problem with genie+ & the way my family tours is not being able to make a second genie+ at 9am (2 hours after 7am) vs 11am. Making a second at 11 doesn’t really help me as we RD and are probably eating lunch around that time & then we head out for a break. Now if the parks open at 8 and I could book a second at 10 AND there was good availability then…maybe. If they change anything I hope it’s the 2 hour after park open restriction, but I’m not holding my breath. I do see how genie+ could be great for those who stay in the park all day. It seems those customers get the most. That’s just not us in the summer.


Keep in mind that the 2 hour after park opening restriction only comes into play if it’s before your G+ time.   If you get a G+ time of 9:30, you can make a second one as soon as you tap into that first one.


----------



## Orsino

My new idle speculation is that Disney should simply allow Genie+ users to choose later times. I can't think of a good reason why it doesn't. Even the standard "because money" doesn't quite explain it since Genie+ is 15 dollars no matter what you book. 
First available made sense for paper fastpass since the machines couldn't offer times. First available for Maxpass made sense since it operated parallel to paper fastpass. Genie+ has no good reason to not allow future booking of LL. They obviously have the code to do it since they offer it on Individual Selection.


----------



## Grasshopper2016

Brocktoon said:


> Go to your My Disney Experience account on the website (not the app). Under your reservation details, there should be an option to modify the package. It should then list resort, tickets, etc ... If you have your tickets linked, you may have the option to 'modify tickets'. Under that option you may have the ability to change the ticket add-ons and add Genie+. I haven't modified my tickets yet but checked this morning as was able to if I wanted.


When I tried to add Genie+ on the app, it wouldn't let me do it for my other family members --- just for me.  And I couldn't find any way to do it on the website.   Your tip was very helpful!

In my case, because I didn't buy the tickets as part of a package (bought them from a third party vendor), I don't have a reservation on MDE or a package to modify.  But I had added my tickets to MDE manually when I first received them.  Today, I could go to "My Plans" and then "Tickets and Memory Maker."  There was then an option to "Change Tickets."  Clicking on that allowed me choose all of the people in my party.  And then one of the change options was "Add Genie+."  I clicked on that, and everything went through smoothly.  The tickets briefly disappeared from MDE, which was a bit frightening.  But in a minute or two, they reappeared with Genie+ added on.


----------



## PaladinButters

Jrb1979 said:


> Personally I hope they close that 2pm loop hole. It hurts those who don't park hop. It should be that you can't book rides in your 2nd park til after 2pm.



Is the 2PM limit going to be forever now?  

Let's not say it's a loophole, let's call it a benefit of paying more for your tickets to get the hopper option.


----------



## 20KLeagues

Orsino said:


> My new idle speculation is that Disney should simply allow Genie+ users to choose later times. I can't think of a good reason why it doesn't. Even the standard "because money" doesn't quite explain it since Genie+ is 15 dollars no matter what you book.
> First available made sense for paper fastpass since the machines couldn't offer times. First available for Maxpass made sense since it operated parallel to paper fastpass. Genie+ has no good reason to not allow future booking of LL. They obviously have the code to do it since they offer it on Individual Selection.


Couldn't agree more.........Would change the entire guest experience for the better.........That and being able to book your first Genie+ ride the night before

Why not try it and see how it works?


----------



## snikki

Orsino said:


> My new idle speculation is that Disney should simply allow Genie+ users to choose later times. I can't think of a good reason why it doesn't. Even the standard "because money" doesn't quite explain it since Genie+ is 15 dollars no matter what you book.
> First available made sense for paper fastpass since the machines couldn't offer times. First available for Maxpass made sense since it operated parallel to paper fastpass. Genie+ has no good reason to not allow future booking of LL. They obviously have the code to do it since they offer it on Individual Selection.



To keep people buying park hoppers? If everyone gets the late slots ahead of time the people who pick next available won’t want to hop later in the day. FTR I would like to pick my times. I wouldn’t be upset with this change.


----------



## Jrb1979

20KLeagues said:


> Couldn't agree more.........Would change the entire guest experience for the better.........That and being able to book your first Genie+ ride the night before
> 
> Why not try it and see how it works?


With the way it's setup now, it's easy for Disney go disperse crowds. Genie+ is setup this way for a reason and I doubt it will change much.


----------



## MainMom

amylevan said:


> Keep in mind that the 2 hour after park opening restriction only comes into play if it’s before your G+ time.   If you get a G+ time of 9:30, you can make a second one as soon as you tap into that first one.


But it’s likely that the lines are short enough that I’m paying $15 to skip a short line at 9:30. That’s not a value FOR ME. I’ll also have a party of 7 which is a lot different than finding great times for 1-2 people. I wish I could get a better scenario for us. Maybe that will show up over time.


----------



## leeniewdw

PaladinButters said:


> Is the 2PM limit going to be forever now?
> 
> Let's not say it's a loophole, let's call it a benefit of paying more for your tickets to get the hopper option.



That's a question I've had, has WDW stated that the 2pm park hop time is 'forever'?

Which makes me realize I probably should think about our "strategy" for if there is still a 2pm park hop limiter or if there's not.    In reality I've got 4 months but I still feel like I need an idea of things so I can compare against experiences and adapt if needed.   The park reservation thing is different enough,but now to factor into 2pm hopping, ILL$ and G+LL, well there are so many more permutations.

And I agree -- if you are paying for a park hopper and G+, then you should be able to use those features you are paying for.


----------



## PaladinButters

20KLeagues said:


> That and being able to book your first Genie+ ride the night before



Well in that case why not the week before or 30 days before..... wait this is starting to sound familiar....


----------



## ZellyB

I really hope at some point the 2 pm hopper thing goes away.  Probably our favorite park day ever was a day we hit all 4 parks in one day.  We even managed to hit two rope drops.   But, I'm very much afraid it's here to stay.


----------



## Jrb1979

PaladinButters said:


> Well in that case why not the week before or 30 days before..... wait this is starting to sound familiar....


Agreed. It's sounds like many want Genie+ to work like FP+ cause it worked for their touring style. People are going to have to throw out the window and change how they do the parks. 


ZellyB said:


> I really hope at some point the 2 pm hopper thing goes away.  Probably our favorite park day ever was a day we hit all 4 parks in one day.  We even managed to hit two rope drops.   But, I'm very much afraid it's here to stay.


With the reservation system in place I doubt the 2pm thing goes away. Between 2 and 5 the parks are the busiest so they already schedule the amount of labor needed for that time. Using the reservations Disney has an idea where to add more CMs that day and where to cut them.


----------



## js

Disturbia said:


> That’s why we need to know what passes and when to book; we should get a guesstimate soon; keep watching videos of reports from bloggers



Hi. I don't watch videos and reports from bloggers but I really would like to start especially with the G+ and IA$$.
Can you/anyone here recommend who I watch and how do I watch them? Youtube?

Thanks!


----------



## leeniewdw

Jrb1979 said:


> Personally I hope they close that 2pm loop hole. It hurts those who don't park hop. It should be that you can't book rides in your 2nd park til after 2pm.



Because people are paying a premium to park hop and if you had to wait until 2pm and there are no LLs to select from park 2, you've rendered park hopping/G+ $ worthless for half your day?

Unless the suggestion is that LL just stops for ALL once the return times hit 2pm and then re-opens for reservations at 2pm.  Because if a single park person is getting post-2pm returns times while park hopper people cannot, the single park ticket is getting an advantage over people who paid more.   

P1:  MK All Day
P2:  AK am and MK PM

at 11am, the LL return times at MK are in the 2pm-3pm timeframe, only P1 can get those LLs
at 1pm, the LL return times at MK are in the 3pm-4pm timeframe, only P1 can get those LLs
at 2pm, the LL return times at MK are 4pm-5pm.  P2 grabs a 5pm LL and has to ride standby for anything else for 3 hours, while P1 gets 2 LL.   


Kind of defeats the purpose of paying more for a park hopper.


----------



## jrsharp21

DavidNYC said:


> There are still going to be HUGE numbers of people who know the only way they'll ride FoP or SDD or RoR or several others without paying is to do rope drop.  And there will be large numbers of people who want to do certain rides multiple times and the only way they can do that is rope drop.  Even with FP+, there were huge crowds at rope drop for the most popular rides.  But also as I said, if rope drop and hit the 2nd tier rides - you can get 3-4 in before the times get to that 30+ minute mark.  Rope Drop is a way of life - those who do it will continue to do it.  The reasons and benefits are all still there whether it was FP+, standby only or LL.  Nothing has changed.  It won't be horrible now because we're still relatively light crowds but expect to see the 2+ hour standby lines for those headliners early in the day before they level off.



Agree that rope drop is still going to be huge numbers. Not only for the above mentioned reasons, but also you are going to have people who try to book their first G+ reservation as close to opening as possible so that they can book their next reservation right after and hopefully catch windows that that are not too far out so that they can book their third one right after that. The people with that type of strategy, book as many as possible in a day, will definitely be at rope drop. At this point, this is what we are considering doing when we go in January. Early and often is the strategy.


----------



## Grasshopper2016

Orsino said:


> While I can believe that Genie+ is currently functioning this way, I don't believe it was intended to be this way. If this is how Genie+ works currently, Disney should fix it as this loophole is kind of glaring.


Actually, I think it's in Disney's best interest to leave loopholes like this alone.  Too much leveling of the playing field and seasoned guests might stop coming back.  This might end up operating like the "refresh method"---a perhaps unintended perk that lets those in the know get enough out of their vacation dollars (relative to the average guest) even on more crowded days to justify return visits without openly treating them differently.


DavidNYC said:


> Absolutely - we're already seeing some of the strategies and potential loopholes come into play. It's very clear to me that - just like under the old system - those who study up and know how to use it best will be able to get a lot more out of it.


Exactly.


----------



## Orsino

snikki said:


> To keep people buying park hoppers? If everyone gets the late slots ahead of time the people who pick next available won’t want to hop later in the day. FTR I would like to pick my times. I wouldn’t be upset with this change.


Maybe, but I don't think Disney designed the system with this in mind. If anything, I think by allowing picks for later in the day, Disney would be able to sell more Genie+ and devour that sweet sweet money.
By not allowing late day scheduling, they might pick up some hopper hackers, but I think they would do far better with Genie+ sales with a straight up book later in the day allowance. For example, while I'm thinking about the hopper hack (and I'll have an AP so no 'extra' money for Disney), I probably won't bother with Genie+ at all for that day. But if Genie+ allowed later day scheduling, I'd buy Genie+ for my arrival day for sure.
Hear that Disney? More Money.


----------



## Jrb1979

leeniewdw said:


> Because people are paying a premium to park hop and if you had to wait until 2pm and there are no LLs to select from park 2, you've rendered park hopping/G+ $ worthless for half your day?
> 
> Unless the suggestion is that LL just stops for ALL once the return times hit 2pm and then re-opens for reservations at 2pm.  Because if a single park person is getting post-2pm returns times while park hopper people cannot, the single park ticket is getting an advantage over people who paid more.
> 
> P1:  MK All Day
> P2:  AK am and MK PM
> 
> at 11am, the LL return times at MK are in the 2pm-3pm timeframe, only P1 can get those LLs
> at 1pm, the LL return times at MK are in the 3pm-4pm timeframe, only P1 can get those LLs
> at 2pm, the LL return times at MK are 4pm-5pm.  P2 grabs a 5pm LL and has to ride standby for anything else for 3 hours, while P1 gets 2 LL.
> 
> 
> Kind of defeats the purpose of paying more for a park hopper.



I wouldn't necessarily close the loop hole. The way the system should work regardless of park hopper or not is you should only be able to see the times available at that moment. 

Say your 2nd park is Epcot, when you select it at 7am to look for times you should only see what's available then not whats available after 2.


----------



## LSUfan4444

Rope drop has always been successful because most people don't do it....G+ and ILL won't change that. Most people will arrive later in the morning/day.


----------



## Grumpy by Birth

LSUfan4444 said:


> There are likely to be 4 big groups of people
> 1 - Rope Droppers who want as much standby as possible because their G+ and ILLs are later in the day.
> 2- Later arrivers who sleep in a bit and see no need to rush to Splash Mountain standby when they can G+ for the same (or lower) wait
> 3 - Phone zombies who look like they're from Walking Dead trying to accumulate every single G+ they can regardless of how much time it saves them in the end
> *4 - Those asking for the best way to get to MGM to ride the new Velocicoaster ride*


Everyone knows it's at Animal Kingdom, silly.


----------



## LSUfan4444

Jrb1979 said:


> Say your 2nd park is Epcot, when you select it at 7am to look for times you should only see what's available then not whats available after 2.


If you're willing to basically sacrifice a morning of a service you paid for so you can maximize it in the afternoon seeing the time windows you want to use it for makes sense.


----------



## Jrb1979

LSUfan4444 said:


> If you're willing to basically sacrifice a morning of a service you paid for so you can maximize it in the afternoon seeing the time windows you want to use it for makes sense.


You might as go back to FP+ and give people a choice of times. That's what picking your 2nd park times first is basically doing.

It should be a rolling availability for everyone. IMO you shouldn't see afternoon times available at 7 am just cause you want to go to that park later.


----------



## monkeybug

Just wanting to make sure I'm understanding correctly. If I have reservations at MK and am staying at a resort I can book 7DMT (for the morning) and ROTR (for the afternoon) at 7:00 am, rope drop MK and ride things like Space, Haunted Mansion and Peter Pan using standby while also scheduling LLs for after 2pm at Hollywood Studios? This sounds like a huge improvement over the last system for my family.


----------



## OhDannyBoy

LSUfan4444 said:


> Rope drop has always been successful because most people don't do it....G+ and ILL won't change that. Most people will arrive later in the morning/day.


It's funny I always rope dropped but never for some strategic mission to ride more rides. I just love the parks in the morning. Short lines were just added bonus. LOL


----------



## Jrb1979

monkeybug said:


> Just wanting to make sure I'm understanding correctly. If I have reservations at MK and am staying at a resort I can book 7DMT (for the morning) and ROTR (for the afternoon) at 7:00 am, rope drop MK and ride things like Space, Haunted Mansion and Peter Pan using standby while also scheduling LLs for after 2pm at Hollywood Studios? This sounds like a huge improvement over the last system for my family.


That's the way it works right now. IMO it should be you can only see availability that a person already in that park sees. If I'm in Hollywood Studios and the majority of availability is still am slots, a person in another park shouldn't be allowed to see later times then I can.


----------



## 20KLeagues

OhDannyBoy said:


> It's funny I always rope dropped but never for some strategic mission to ride more rides. I just love the parks in the morning. Short lines were just added bonus. LOL


Ive gone to the parks more time's than i can count, for almost 50 years and we have never rope dropped once.....weird.....just not morning people, we are night owls


----------



## Boardwalk III

amylevan said:


> FWIW, there are a lot of rides that G+ would only save you minimal to no time and you can only use once per ride.   So setting it up to use at your 2nd park, during the busiest time of the day (afternoon) might be a best bet for some depending on what they want to ride and what wait times are.
> 
> And if return times start to fly through the day s more people use the system, I’m not sure how many more than 3 you’re likely to get anyhow.   How many could people get in legacy FP?  Because that is what this most closely resembles (except you can’t repeat rides).



So I have a question on this. Heading down in two weeks and we’re not keen on being up and out of the room between 7 and 8 AM. Thus I was starting to like this idea of in the morning booking something I really want to ride for late afternoon at my “park hopper park“ first. Maybe for 4  pm timeframe. Say that is Epcot. Then at  9 AM start booking for my first park (ie MK) and shoot for an 11AM attraction perhaps. Arrive at MK by 10 AM, do one or two standby rides and then after tapping in at 11 am start making additional LL’s at either park. Would that be a reasonable plan?


----------



## DisneyKidds

Grasshopper2016 said:


> Actually, I think it's in Disney's best interest to leave loopholes like this alone.  Too much leveling of the playing field and seasoned guests might stop coming back.


For better or for worse, the changes Disney has been making for some time now, and especially lately, seem to reinforce the idea that Disney doesn’t really care about the long time, loyal, repeat guest.  I’m sure they’ve done analyses that show the new, once in a blue moon visitors spend more per person per day at WDW than the frequent repeat visitors.  If they can fill reservations with such higher revenue guests it bolsters the revenue numbers and bottom line.  Is that a sustainable long term strategy?  Who knows….


----------



## OhDannyBoy

20KLeagues said:


> Ive gone to the parks more time's than i can count, for almost 50 years and we have never rope dropped once.....weird.....just not morning people, we are night owls


I'm basically a little kid at Christmas time when at Disney. I'm up early when the park opens and until I had small kids, I usually had to be asked to leave at closing. LOL But I don't do resorts or anything else. I'm there for the parks. It's more an adventure to us than a vacation.


----------



## wisblue

LSUfan4444 said:


> Yep...if they want a 2pm Splash as their first they have to wait till they see that window become available.



Let me recap the bidding here to see if I understand this.

I am familiar with the feature of Genie that lets you select your favorite attractions and lets you indicate that you will be going to a second park. That even includes a “slider” where you can select what times you expect to be in that park.

When I go to the Tip Board to look at standby wait times and G+LL times all I see is the next times. Even now at 1:20 ET the time posted for Soarin is 1:25 PM.

Are you saying that if I have a hopper ticket and park reservation for MK, and indicate on Genie that we plan to hop to Epcot at 2 PM, the Tip Board will show me G+LL return times after 2 PM, even when the return time that is available to others is before 2 PM? Have you seen this first hand?

I didn’t expect this to work that way. If it does that opens up some different potential strategies for using Genie+.


----------



## DisneyKidds

Jrb1979 said:


> With the reservation system in place I doubt the 2pm thing goes away. Between 2 and 5 the parks are the busiest so they already schedule the amount of labor needed for that time. Using the reservations Disney has an idea where to add more CMs that day and where to cut them.


Agreed.  FP+ was a system that had duel benefit for guests (who decided to use it) and Disney.  It gave guests a good deal of flexibility (once they did their planning months in advance) and enhanced the guest experience (more than I think G+ will), while also getting guests out of lines and spending $$ elsewhere in the park to Disney’s benefit.  This new system is focused much more on Disney and their ability to move crowds, schedule staff, etc…..while providing a replacement of sorts for FP+ that brings in a whole new revenue stream.  It’s much more about Disney operations and profit than guest experience, compared to what they had before.  Time will tell if it’s a brilliant or foolish strategy….


----------



## Jrb1979

wisblue said:


> Let me recap the bidding here to see if I understand this.
> 
> I am familiar with the feature of Genie that lets you select your favorite attractions and lets you indicate that you will be going to a second park. That even includes a “slider” where you can select what times you expect to be in that park.
> 
> When I go to the Tip Board to look at standby wait times and G+LL times all I see is the next times. Even now at 1:20 ET the time posted for Soarin is 1:25 PM.
> 
> Are you saying that if I have a hopper ticket and park reservation for MK, and indicate on Genie that we plan to hop to Epcot at 2 PM, the Tip Board will show me G+LL return times after 2 PM, even when the return time that is available to others is before 2 PM? Have you seen this first hand?
> 
> I didn’t expect this to work that way. If it does that opens up some different potential strategies for using Genie+.


What you are describing is the way it should work. If the return time for Soarin is 1:25 that's the time that a person with a park hopper should see too. If you have a Park Hopper you will have to play the waiting game too. If that means waiting til 12 to find something that fits you schedule so be it.


----------



## Disturbia

js said:


> Hi. I don't watch videos and reports from bloggers but I really would like to start especially with the G+ and IA$$.
> Can you/anyone here recommend who I watch and how do I watch them? Youtube?
> 
> Thanks!


----------



## Disturbia

This is a good comparison JoJo using Genie + vs Kyle Pallo (no Genie+)

I also like Molly from allears (she’s funny and detailed)and goes through steps live.  Dfbblog is also good for summaries.


----------



## HopperFan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1451238956478173187


----------



## DisneyKidds

monkeybug said:


> Just wanting to make sure I'm understanding correctly. If I have reservations at MK and am staying at a resort I can book 7DMT (for the morning) and ROTR (for the afternoon) at 7:00 am, rope drop MK and ride things like Space, Haunted Mansion and Peter Pan using standby while also scheduling LLs for after 2pm at Hollywood Studios? This sounds like a huge improvement over the last system for my family.


Could be, assuming that during busier times you can finagle the system and secure LL returns that are useful for the rides you want.


----------



## snikki

wisblue said:


> Let me recap the bidding here to see if I understand this.
> 
> I am familiar with the feature of Genie that lets you select your favorite attractions and lets you indicate that you will be going to a second park. That even includes a “slider” where you can select what times you expect to be in that park.
> 
> When I go to the Tip Board to look at standby wait times and G+LL times all I see is the next times. Even now at 1:20 ET the time posted for Soarin is 1:25 PM.
> 
> Are you saying that if I have a hopper ticket and park reservation for MK, and indicate on Genie that we plan to hop to Epcot at 2 PM, the Tip Board will show me G+LL return times after 2 PM, even when the return time that is available to others is before 2 PM? Have you seen this first hand?
> 
> I didn’t expect this to work that way. If it does that opens up some different potential strategies for using Genie+.



I was the one who asked the original question and yup that’s how it works.  I followed up and read some blogs and it was confirmed.


----------



## PaladinButters

OhDannyBoy said:


> It's funny I always rope dropped but never for some strategic mission to ride more rides.* I just love the parks in the morning*. Short lines were just added bonus. LOL



A big yes to that!! I always rope drop because I've been up for hours anyway and why waste time when I could be Disney-ing!  But, I also always refused to do MK on arrival day because the magic of the park opening show. That first walk up to the castle when it's already crowded mid-day is not for me, I'll go to Epcot.


----------



## jenstall

rmclain73 said:


> Yes, you can then keep stacking.  Pull one at 7:00am, then 11:00am, then 1:00pm.  You could also buy 2 ILLs.  You could be entering the park with 5 LL's.  At 3:00pm you can grab a 6th.  Put the park you wish to hop to into your day on the app.



As a night owl I'd like to use this strategy for Hollywood Studios. I wonder how well it would work without a hopper showing only 2 p.m. or later return times. I could get myself awake  at 7 a.m. to get my first LL and two ILL$. And then go back to sleep until 11 a.m.    For the rest of my trip I am relying on the Extra Evening Hours for Deluxe guests to get me on all the rides at MK and Epcot with short standby times.  But I might do the ILL$ or boarding group for Remy since I don't think it is open during the Extra Evening hours. I enjoy the parks most after dark for the ambiance so I think this will be  perfect for me.

Haven't decided yet what I'll do for AK since it closes so early compared to the other parks.  I really only want to get on the new Avatar attractions as I haven't done them yet so probably will just do a ILL$ for Flight of Passage and do standby for Na'vi River Journey. I could do a rope drop there one morning if I can drag myself out of bed... I'll be staying at AKV so not too far to travel! I have never, in all my years of going to Disney World and Disneyland, gone at rope drop!


----------



## leeniewdw

Boardwalk III said:


> So I have a question on this. Heading down in two weeks and we’re not keen on being up and out of the room between 7 and 8 AM. Thus I was starting to like this idea of in the morning booking something I really want to ride for late afternoon at my “park hopper park“ first. Maybe for 4  pm timeframe. Say that is Epcot. Then at  9 AM start booking for my first park (ie MK) and shoot for an 11AM attraction perhaps. Arrive at MK by 10 AM, do one or two standby rides and then after tapping in at 11 am start making additional LL’s at either park. Would that be a reasonable plan?



The flaw with this is that you can't be sure that 4pm is going to be the time available to reserve at 7am.  It will be 2pm or later, but may not be 4pm.  You can't pick the time with regular LL. 



Jrb1979 said:


> What you are describing is the way it should work. If the return time for Soarin is 1:25 that's the time that a person with a park hopper should see too. If you have a Park Hopper you will have to play the waiting game too. If that means waiting til 12 to find something that fits you schedule so be it.



Perhaps disney meters how many post 2pm LL are available to park hoppers.   That would seem like a fair alternative.  If I've paid for Park Hopper AND G+, they know I intend to go to > 1 park, well, because I paid for that feature.    If my entire touring plan is based on hitting multiple parks in 1 day (my trips are usually short, 2-3 days) and I'm willing to pay for that, I want to be able to schedule that time.

I totally get what you are saying, but if my priority is riding headliner X in the park I have to hop to, then I'd like the chance to reserve that first thing in the morning.  FP+ didn't let you do this (multiple park FP+s on 1 day), but FP+ was free.


----------



## OhDannyBoy

PaladinButters said:


> A big yes to that!! I always rope drop because I've been up for hours anyway and why waste time when I could be Disney-ing!  But, I also always refused to do MK on arrival day because the magic of the park opening show. That first walk up to the castle when it's already crowded mid-day is not for me, I'll go to Epcot.


We have always used "arrival" day (it's a 3 hour drive for us) as our time at Disney Springs. The though of driving 3 hours and jumping right into mid day park chaos is not something that seems very fun.


----------



## js

DavidNYC said:


> Tapping in means:
> 1.  When you tap into a ride that you have a LL booked for.  When you tap into a ride - you can make your next reservation.
> 2.  When you tap into a park.  You have to tap into your reservation park in order to be permitted to hop to another park.  So correct - your family cannot just meet you at Epcot at 2pm without either going to MK first or changing their reservation.
> 
> As for your first statement - the 120 minutes does not start to run until a park opens even if you make a reservation at 7am.  If you make a 7am reservation with an 11:30 return time, you can make your second reservation at 11am.  You can still make your second reservation if you have not tapped into the park.  If you enter the park and tap into your 11:30 reservation, you can then make another reservation after you have tapped even though you also have the reservation you made at 11.



Hi. I think I am fairly smart but this whole 120 minute wait has me questioning my sanity, I cannot understand what to do with this 120 minute information.

Is below almost correct:

I can go online at 12:01 and purchase G+ for the "next" morning of my reserved park.
Let's say the park I chose opens at 10 am.
I can go online at 7 am and book my first G+ for 10 am - 11 am. 
I can also then pay for IA$$ at that time and book for the park where I have my reservation.
***QUESTION: Can I book IA$$ for my park where I will hop?
If I book my first GP for 10-11 am and tap in at 10:05 am, can I book my next G+ or do I have to wait 120 minutes?
If I do not have to wait, I can just keep trying all day for different attractions using G+ as soon as I tap into my G+ attraction?

If I know I am hopping that day (I have AP and a resort stay), can I book at the second park for a 2 pm G+ at 7 am (if available)? If so, how does that then matter to my first park G+? 
Can I book a 10-11 am G+ (if park opens at 10 am) at 7 am and also a 2 pm, G+?
If so, when can I book my next G+? After I tap in at 10:01 to my first G+?

Thank you SO much!


----------



## Jrb1979

leeniewdw said:


> Perhaps disney meters how many post 2pm LL are available to park hoppers.   That would seem like a fair alternative.  If I've paid for Park Hopper AND G+, they know I intend to go to > 1 park, well, because I paid for that feature.    If my entire touring plan is based on hitting multiple parks in 1 day (my trips are usually short, 2-3 days) and I'm willing to pay for that, I want to be able to schedule that time.
> 
> I totally get what you are saying, but if my priority is riding headliner X in the park I have to hop to, then I'd like the chance to reserve that first thing in the morning.  FP+ didn't let you do this (multiple park FP+s on 1 day), but FP+ was free.


I get what you are saying. My issue is why should somebody with a park hopper get an advantage over the person who made a reservation for said park.  It should be the same availability for everyone. If anything the people that get an advantage are those you get up at ,7am and rope drop.


----------



## ucfknight

LSUfan4444 said:


> Rope drop has always been successful because most people don't do it....G+ and ILL won't change that. Most people will arrive later in the morning/day.



G+ and ILL won't change that because Early Theme Park Entry already has. "Rope drop" is already no longer successful. Killing Extra Magic Hours in the evenings, having Extended Evening hours only for Deluxe resorts, and having ETPE at every park every day is creating much longer lines early in the morning than have been historically seen. Most likely part of a strategy to build lines quickly to sell more Genie+ and ILL. Rope drop is dead.


----------



## DavidNYC

jrsharp21 said:


> Agree that rope drop is still going to be huge numbers. Not only for the above mentioned reasons, but also you are going to have people who try to book their first G+ reservation as close to opening as possible so that they can book their next reservation right after and hopefully catch windows that that are not too far out so that they can book their third one right after that. The people with that type of strategy, book as many as possible in a day, will definitely be at rope drop. At this point, this is what we are considering doing when we go in January. Early and often is the strategy.



I "mostly" agree with on the early and often - however, with the limitation on one per day, I'm not sure I'd book my first one as close as possible to opening if the standby for that is likely to be very short.  Can't see for example booking a 9am Big Thunder Mountain when I know if I go right there I'll walk on and then can use my LL for that later in the day.  But - as long as you have the hour window - what I'd probably do is book it for 9:30 and hit at least 1-2 others at rope drop that I could do with minimal waits.  Had you not had the one per ride limitation it would be one thing - but using a reservation on a ride with that only has a 5-10 minute standby basically wastes the use (but again - depending on your schedule for the day it might not matter . . .)


----------



## leeniewdw

Jrb1979 said:


> I get what you are saying. My issue is why should somebody with a park hopper get an advantage over the person who made a reservation for said park.  It should be the same availability for everyone. If anything the people that get an advantage are those you get up at ,7am and rope drop.



I don't see it as an advantage, I see it as getting full use of G+ and park hopping (which costs more).  If they meter what is available, it really no different than allocating some RotR slots for hotel guests at 7am and then more at park opening for everyone else (which is what TP is reporting).   If a portion of the allocation is going to people who paid extra to hop, then I don't see the big deal.  If the post 2pm LLs are completely full before single park people have access, yes, that would be an issue.  Has that been reported thus far as an issue?


----------



## js

DavidNYC said:


> I "mostly" agree with on the early and often - however, with the limitation on one per day, I'm not sure I'd book my first one as close as possible to opening if the standby for that is likely to be very short.  Can't see for example booking a 9am Big Thunder Mountain when I know if I go right there I'll walk on and then can use my LL for that later in the day.  But - as long as you have the hour window - what I'd probably do is book it for 9:30 and hit at least 1-2 others at rope drop that I could do with minimal waits.  Had you not had the one per ride limitation it would be one thing - but using a reservation on a ride with that only has a 5-10 minute standby basically wastes the use (but again - depending on your schedule for the day it might not matter . . .)



Can't I use LL for say, BTM and then ride standby?
Would above work?


----------



## DisneyFive

DavidNYC said:


> There are still going to be HUGE numbers of people who know the only way they'll ride FoP or SDD or RoR or several others without paying is to do rope drop.  And there will be large numbers of people who want to do certain rides multiple times and the only way they can do that is rope drop.  Even with FP+, there were huge crowds at rope drop for the most popular rides.  But also as I said, if rope drop and hit the 2nd tier rides - you can get 3-4 in before the times get to that 30+ minute mark.  Rope Drop is a way of life - those who do it will continue to do it.  The reasons and benefits are all still there whether it was FP+, standby only or LL.  Nothing has changed.  It won't be horrible now because we're still relatively light crowds but expect to see the 2+ hour standby lines for those headliners early in the day before they level off.





jrsharp21 said:


> Agree that rope drop is still going to be huge numbers. Not only for the above mentioned reasons, but also you are going to have people who try to book their first G+ reservation as close to opening as possible so that they can book their next reservation right after and hopefully catch windows that that are not too far out so that they can book their third one right after that. The people with that type of strategy, book as many as possible in a day, will definitely be at rope drop. At this point, this is what we are considering doing when we go in January. Early and often is the strategy.



I'm not saying rope drop won't have large numbers, it always has... but not like what we experienced this summer.  

Those of you that visited this summer when capacity restriction were eased know that rope drop was way different than in past years.  Overall crowd levels were like previous years, but there was a marked shift of guests getting to the parks early.  Opening the parks 1 hour early to everyone, combined with the _only way to ride attractions being standby, rope drop was more critical than the last 5-10 years._  Guests knew that if you missed that short morning period with lower waits, the lines stayed LONG all day, tapering off towards park close.  Early park arrival was critical and the the early morning crowds showed it.  By the time the parks officially opened they were WAY more full than previous years.  We've visited many days the same time of year with FP+, heck even paper FP, and rope drop had less guests back then.  

There are things that will hopefully help out rope drop now.  First, onsite guests.  We stay onsite so I love the 30 minute early entry.  Secondly, having the ability to purchase ILL and book G+ before you get to a park can only help relieve the pressure of getting to the parks so early versus what we experienced.  Will they be low in the morning?  No.  I just hope they shift back closer to how they were in previous years.

Dan


----------



## DavidNYC

js said:


> Hi. I think I am fairly smart but this whole 120 minute wait has me questioning my sanity, I cannot understand what to do with this 120 minute information.
> 
> Is below almost correct:
> 
> I can go online at 12:01 and purchase G+ for the "next" morning of my reserved park.
> Let's say the park I chose opens at 10 am.
> I can go online at 7 am and book my first G+ for 10 am - 11 am.
> I can also then pay for IA$$ at that time and book for the park where I have my reservation.
> ***QUESTION: Can I book IA$$ for my park where I will hop?
> If I book my first GP for 10-11 am and tap in at 10:05 am, can I book my next G+ or do I have to wait 120 minutes?
> If I do not have to wait, I can just keep trying all day for different attractions using G+ as soon as I tap into my G+ attraction?
> 
> If I know I am hopping that day (I have AP and a resort stay), can I book at the second park for a 2 pm G+ at 7 am (if available)? If so, how does that then matter to my first park G+?
> Can I book a 10-11 am G+ (if park opens at 10 am) at 7 am and also a 2 pm, G+?
> If so, when can I book my next G+? After I tap in at 10:01 to my first G+?
> 
> Thank you SO much!


1.  You can book any IA$$ rides in any park with the caveat that if it is not the park you have a reservation for - you will only be offered times after 2pm.
2.  When you tap in at 10:05 am you can make your next reservation.   120 is not a limitation - it's an exception.  This is how to think of it - you can make your next reservation at the EARLIER of (1) when you tap into your prior reservation or (2) 120 minutes after you made your prior reservation.
3.  Yes - if your return times are close together you can keep going like that all day subject to the one LL per ride rule.  
4.  Apparently yes - you can book a reservation for your second park post 2-pm at 7am.  How that affects you depends on what rides are available 2 hours after your first park opens.  Say you get a 2pm reservation for Test Track.  Well - at 11am in MK you're going to be limited (not technically - just due to your time contraints) to picking a ride with a return time probably up to 1pm or so to ensure you can get to Epcot in time.  One strategy people are discussing is just to book LL at your second park for the afternoon at 7am, 11am, and 1pm (for a 9am opening park) and just do standby in your first park starting at rope drop.
5.  You can book a 10-11G+ in your first park.  But if the park opens at 10 you won't be able to book in your second park until you either tap into the first ride or at noon - which ever is first.


----------



## Missmaureen78

OhDannyBoy said:


> It's funny I always rope dropped but never for some strategic mission to ride more rides. I just love the parks in the morning. Short lines were just added bonus. LOL



We (DH and I) are newbies -- it's been many years since we've been to WDW -- but this is why we're planning on RD.   For the experience.  We will not be racing to the headliners.  We will also not be crisscrossing the park or speed walking everywhere in a mad dash to get everything in.  We'll pay for G+ and ILLs as needed and read up on the best way to use them and have a general plan and then...see where the day takes us.  It's about enjoying our time not checking off a list.  But we also don't have kids to satisfy and we don't care if we miss some things or if we wait in some lines, so I guess we're not very typical (at least not on these boards!


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## LSUfan4444

ucfknight said:


> G+ and ILL won't change that because Early Theme Park Entry already has.


Oh, you mean "rope drop" for resort guests?


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## LSUfan4444

js said:


> Can't I use LL for say, BTM and then ride standby?


Yes


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## LSUfan4444

I can go online at 12:01 and purchase G+ for the "next" morning of my reserved park.
- You can. I wouldn't and would just wait until the morning but you can
Let's say the park I chose opens at 10 am.
I can go online at 7 am and book my first G+ for 10 am - 11 am.
I can also then pay for IA$$ at that time and book for the park where I have my reservation.
***QUESTION: Can I book IA$$ for my park where I will hop?
-Yes, you can book both ILLs and they can be in any park, reservation there or not
If I book my first GP for 10-11 am and tap in at 10:05 am, can I book my next G+ or do I have to wait 120 minutes?
-Yes, as soon as you "second tap"
If I do not have to wait, I can just keep trying all day for different attractions using G+ as soon as I tap into my G+ attraction?
-Yes

If I know I am hopping that day (I have AP and a resort stay), can I book at the second park for a 2 pm G+ at 7 am (if available)? If so, how does that then matter to my first park G+?
-Yes, it means the first G+ reservation you can make in your first park can only be made 120 minutes after it opens
Can I book a 10-11 am G+ (if park opens at 10 am) at 7 am and also a 2 pm, G+?
-Not at the same time, no
If so, when can I book my next G+? After I tap in at 10:01 to my first G+?
-After your second tap at your first reservation


----------



## leeniewdw

Missmaureen78 said:


> We (DH and I) are newbies -- it's been many years since we've been to WDW -- but this is why we're planning on RD.   For the experience.  We will not be racing to the headliners.  We will also not be crisscrossing the park or speed walking everywhere in a mad dash to get everything in.  We'll pay for G+ and ILLs as needed and read up on the best way to use them and have a general plan and then...see where the day takes us.  It's about enjoying our time not checking off a list.  But we also don't have kids to satisfy and we don't care if we miss some things or if we wait in some lines, so I guess we're not very typical (at least not on these boards!



This would describe us exactly.  We even went to WDW in 2018 after not going for over 10 years.  We had days left on old hoppers so we couldn't even use FP reservations until we got to the park and exchanged the paper tickets.  We did just fine!   We returned in 2020 with our advance FP+ and didn't sweat anything else as the days unfolded (other than being there when WDW closed due to COVID!).

Anyway -- I would have this exact attitude about our Feb 22 trip, EXCEPT, our grown kids are coming with us (with SOs) and they haven't been since there were paper FPs.   I want to make sure they get on the rides they'd like to experience.   At thanksgiving I'll TRY to explain how all this works, but generally just ask them their MUST DOs and focus on ILL$ and G+/LL for those.

My husband and I will def RD, but I'll have to see how early the kids are willing to get up/out as far as the rest!  I suspect our ILL$ will be late in the day!!!


----------



## DavidNYC

Jrb1979 said:


> I get what you are saying. My issue is why should somebody with a park hopper get an advantage over the person who made a reservation for said park.  It should be the same availability for everyone. If anything the people that get an advantage are those you get up at ,7am and rope drop.



I don't think Disney sees this as an "advantage".  It's just how the system works due to park hopping rules.  While you can make a post 2pm reservation at the 2nd park - you have to give up making a reservation at your current park.  Whether that appeals to you is completely subjective.  In some ways you can even argue it's a distinct disadvantage to do this.  If you book a reservation at your hopper park, you will be waiting the full 120 minutes to make your next reservation while those who make reservations at their first park could tap in long before 120 minutes and make another reservation.

Disney has decided that they want to give everyone the ability to make reservations in any park.  Whether that qualifies as "an advantage" really depends on your point of view.   You're taking a single ride slot in your second park either way.  You're not affecting anyone else in the aggregate.  You got a 2pm slot that would have gone to someone else but you didn't take that 1pm slot that was available now so it remains available to someone.  The person who had a reservation to start the day in the park will have the ability to get afternoon reservations in the later morning (likely after they were able to ride a few other rides with LL).  And presumably the people making reservations from park 1 into park 2 will be balanced out by the people making reservations from park 2 into park 1.  It all basically balances out in the end.

And everyone with a park hopper has this option.  Yes - having a hopper is an advantage over not having a hopper - but that was always the case in multiple respects ever since they introduced hoppers - that's why you pay extra for a hopper.


----------



## OhDannyBoy

Missmaureen78 said:


> We (DH and I) are newbies -- it's been many years since we've been to WDW -- but this is why we're planning on RD.   For the experience.  We will not be racing to the headliners.  We will also not be crisscrossing the park or speed walking everywhere in a mad dash to get everything in.  We'll pay for G+ and ILLs as needed and read up on the best way to use them and have a general plan and then...see where the day takes us.  It's about enjoying our time not checking off a list.  But we also don't have kids to satisfy and we don't care if we miss some things or if we wait in some lines, so I guess we're not very typical (at least not on these boards!


That's usually us. My girls are too young to really care about rides so if we miss some, so. We are Florida residents and usually go every year at least once. One of the best trips I ever had was when we took our almost 2 year old and my wife was 7 months pregnant. We couldn't ride much so we just strolled around and took it all in as it came.

For me, the early morning when it's nice and cool out (as a resident I'll never go near the parks between May and late September) and the pavement is still wet is just awesome. When everyone is mad dashing to the right, take a left. Enjoy the quiet and sip your coffee. 



leeniewdw said:


> This would describe us exactly.  We even went to WDW in 2018 after not going for over 10 years.  We had days left on old hoppers so we couldn't even use FP reservations until we got to the park and exchanged the paper tickets.  We did just fine!   We returned in 2020 with our advance FP+ and didn't sweat anything else as the days unfolded (other than being there when WDW closed due to COVID!).
> 
> Anyway -- I would have this exact attitude about our Feb 22 trip, EXCEPT, our grown kids are coming with us (with SOs) and they haven't been since there were paper FPs.   I want to make sure they get on the rides they'd like to experience.   At thanksgiving I'll TRY to explain how all this works, but generally just ask them their MUST DOs and focus on ILL$ and G+/LL for those.
> 
> My husband and I will def RD, but I'll have to see how early the kids are willing to get up/out as far as the rest!  I suspect our ILL$ will be late in the day!!!


We have a huge group coming in February from Michigan who haven't been to Disney since the 90's. I'm going to try and learn as much as I can to try and get them on everything they want to go on, which is actually why I've been on here so much lately. LOL I want to learn how to maximize G+ and ILL$.


----------



## Jrb1979

DavidNYC said:


> I don't think Disney sees this as an "advantage".  It's just how the system works due to park hopping rules.  While you can make a post 2pm reservation at the 2nd park - you have to give up making a reservation at your current park.  Whether that appeals to you is completely subjective.  In some ways you can even argue it's a distinct disadvantage to do this.  If you book a reservation at your hopper park, you will be waiting the full 120 minutes to make your next reservation while those who make reservations at their first park could tap in long before 120 minutes and make another reservation.
> 
> Disney has decided that they want to give everyone the ability to make reservations in any park.  Whether that qualifies as "an advantage" really depends on your point of view.   You're taking a single ride slot in your second park either way.  You're not affecting anyone else in the aggregate.  You got a 2pm slot that would have gone to someone else but you didn't take that 1pm slot that was available now so it now available to someone.  It all balances out in the end.
> 
> And everyone with a park hopper has this option.  Yes - having a hopper is an advantage over not having a hopper - but that was always the case in multiple respects ever since they introduced hoppers - that's why you pay extra for a hopper.


I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to book a LL in your second park until you get there. What I'm saying is when you click on your 2nd park the return times should be the same as some one who is already in that park.  IMO the people who like to stroll into the parks at noon should be at a disadvantage to those who rope drop. My guess once the parks get busy taking an afternoon break or going to parks later will be a big disadvantage.


----------



## shawthorne44

LSUfan4444 said:


> Agree with alot of what you said and I'll continue to push the idea that this doesnt have to cost guests more money. Try to find the money in the Disney budget other places...for us, it's less ADRs. Outside of a few exceptions, while the cost has continued to go up and we love the service we just can't justify doing the amount of ADRs we used (usually avg'd one per day per trip). Now, we're lucky if we do three over a week long trip.



This is us too.  Our new plan looks very different from what was made pre-lockdown.  
On the new plan, our upfront costs are higher because I've added park hoppers and G+ to the tickets. But, the total cost has gone down. I've cut way back on the food budget because Disney won't be getting any money from "We are hungry, what is nearby and edible?" On a 10-day ticket, our Disney food is 3 in-park TS, 2 resort TS, some iconic snacks and LTT if we can go in just for the cake. But, with park hoppers we can make sure to always arrive well-fed.    I am much more pleased with the revised plan.

ETA: If more people did like you and I, ADR day wouldn't be so stressful for people.


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## DisneyKidds

ucfknight said:


> Most likely part of a strategy to build lines quickly to sell more Genie+ and ILL. Rope drop is dead.


I never though of that, Disney obliterating an effective park use strategy to encourage G+ sales.  Thanks a lot!  I’ve been trying to be more optimistic and objective, as opposed to the usual arrogant Curmudgeonly crybaby jerk that I am ….but you ain’t makin’ it easy!!!


----------



## DavidNYC

Jrb1979 said:


> I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to book a LL in your second park until you get there. What I'm saying is when you click on your 2nd park the return times should be the same as some one who is already in that park.  IMO the people who like to stroll into the parks at noon should be at a disadvantage to those who rope drop. My guess once the parks get busy taking an afternoon break or going to parks later will be a big disadvantage.



That is impossible under the system they wanted to create.  You're not allowed to go into the park until 2pm so it makes no sense to allow people to make ride reservations for a time they are not permitted to use and it would cause MAJOR headaches for Disney cast members.  You are proposing a massively inefficient system to satisfy your own whims on who you would like to favor.  You keep using the word "advantage".  It's not an advantage to anything but your own narrow sense of how you personally would like to system to work and how you personally value things.  I have already pointed out that to do any of these things you are both gaining and giving up.  Your own subjective weighing of those is irrelevant.  Even your statement about people who stroll in at noon should be at a disadvantage is a very selfish statement.  Why?  I'm sorry, did I miss the discount available to those who stroll in at noon?  Your whole argument is based on how YOU want to tour the parks.  And, they are at a disadvantage - the lost three hours of prime park time and have less time to tour the parks and have lost opportunities to book LL they would have had if they were there are rope drop.  I'm not sure what sort of false scenarios you're creating in your head on how this system favors them over other people but they don't exist.  

As for mid-day breaks - yes - it is a hell of lot less convenient now to take a mid-day break or go to the parks later and I have been pointing that out since they announced this whole system.  But that has absolutely nothing to do with being able to make a reservation for a park you want to hop to.


----------



## MainMom

Jrb1979 said:


> I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to book a LL in your second park until you get there. What I'm saying is when you click on your 2nd park the return times should be the same as some one who is already in that park.  IMO the people who like to stroll into the parks at noon should be at a disadvantage to those who rope drop. My guess once the parks get busy taking an afternoon break or going to parks later will be a big disadvantage.


Going to the parks later would only be a disadvantage if you didn’t book any Genie+ while you were hanging around your hotel room or at the pool or whatever. Now, if you like to sleep then that could get you, but that would be the same as the old FP system.
 I do agree that taking an afternoon break could be a disadvantage.  My family does this since we go in the summer. No way I can convince them to stay all day in the heat. It seems the ones who are getting the most genie+ rides stay for the majority of the day which makes sense.


----------



## persnickity

MainMom said:


> A separate post for experiences would be nice. I would like to know how groups of 5+ found genie+/ILL$ useful or not. My group will have 7 next June and I have previously traveled with 11-13 during the summer. I could never effectively utilize FP+ 4th+ after our first 3 without a very long time spent on my phone. Most of the reports are for 1-2 people who stay in the park all day.



Also interested in this - I didn't see it answered, but it _seems _like they aren't limiting availability based on group size. 



Orsino said:


> Hmmm. This looks suspicious to me. While I can believe that Genie+ is currently functioning this way, I don't believe it was intended to be this way. If this is how Genie+ works currently, Disney should fix it as this loophole is kind of glaring.
> 
> For example:
> Someone who books before 9AM opening for 10:55AM and taps in at 10:55AM will then end up holding one new LL.
> vs
> Someone who books before 9AM opening for 11:05AM and then books a new LL at 11AM, then taps in at 11:05AM and books another LL? That's crazy different for a small shift in time.
> 
> Functionally, Genie+ should be programmed so that you can book if 120 minutes have passed OR you have no Genie+ in inventory. That would be much cleaner.



I don't think it's a loophole, or something that needs to be fixed. If you select a time further out, you are losing out on opportunities to book rides for two hours. Having two slots from that point forward is to make up for that. I think it's a good thing.



Orsino said:


> Maybe, but I don't think Disney designed the system with this in mind. If anything, I think by allowing picks for later in the day, Disney would be able to sell more Genie+ and devour that sweet sweet money.
> By not allowing late day scheduling, they might pick up some hopper hackers, but I think they would do far better with Genie+ sales with a straight up book later in the day allowance. For example, while I'm thinking about the hopper hack (and I'll have an AP so no 'extra' money for Disney), I probably won't bother with Genie+ at all for that day. But if Genie+ allowed later day scheduling, I'd buy Genie+ for my arrival day for sure.
> Hear that Disney? More Money.



The availability in the afternoon could be really sparse in the afternoon/evening if they do that.  Lots of disappointed customers.



Boardwalk III said:


> So I have a question on this. Heading down in two weeks and we’re not keen on being up and out of the room between 7 and 8 AM. Thus I was starting to like this idea of in the morning booking something I really want to ride for late afternoon at my “park hopper park“ first. Maybe for 4  pm timeframe. Say that is Epcot. *Then at  9 AM* start booking for my first park (ie MK) and shoot for an 11AM attraction perhaps. Arrive at MK by 10 AM, do one or two standby rides and then after tapping in at 11 am start making additional LL’s at either park. Would that be a reasonable plan?



Kind of. You won't be able to book your second ride until 2 hours after the first park opens, so more like 11am. If TT is in the 4pm range by 8:55, you could grab that and then book a 2nd at MK at 11. (Whether TT is in the 4pm range at that time of the morning is another issue - I know they go fast, but I don't think they go THAT fast. But I haven't been checking.)


----------



## MakiraMarlena

WDW seems to be clarifying ILLS refund status - if the attraction breaks down  and never reopens that day, they are looking to provide automatic refunds, apparently to the payment method used for the reservation. If the purchaser is unable to wait for the attraction to reopen, they would need to go to Guest Services and request a refund.


----------



## Jrb1979

DavidNYC said:


> That is impossible under the system they wanted to create.  You're not allowed to go into the park until 2pm so it makes no sense to allow people to make ride reservations for a time they are not permitted to use and it would cause MAJOR headaches for Disney cast members.  You are proposing a massively inefficient system to satisfy your own whims on who you would like to favor.  You keep using the word "advantage".  It's not an advantage to anything but your own narrow sense of how you personally would like to system to work and how you personally value things.  I have already pointed out that to do any of these things you are both gaining and giving up.  Your own subjective weighing of those is irrelevant.  Even your statement about people who stroll in at noon should be at a disadvantage is a very selfish statement.  Why?  I'm sorry, did I miss the discount available to those who stroll in at noon?  Your whole argument is based on how YOU want to tour the parks.  And, they are at a disadvantage - the lost three hours of prime park time and have less time to tour the parks and have lost opportunities to book LL they would have had if they were there are rope drop.  I'm not sure what sort of false scenarios you're creating in your head on how this system favors them over other people but they don't exist.
> 
> As for mid-day breaks - yes - it is a hell of lot less convenient now to take a mid-day break or go to the parks later and I have been pointing that out since they announced this whole system.  But that has absolutely nothing to do with being able to make a reservation for a park you want to hop to.


I'm not saying let people reserve times before 2pm. I'm saying only show return times after 2pm when it's available. If that means it takes til noon for 2pm times show up so be it.  The more they get away from FP+ the better.


----------



## js

DavidNYC said:


> 1.  You can book any IA$$ rides in any park with the caveat that if it is not the park you have a reservation for - you will only be offered times after 2pm.
> 2.  When you tap in at 10:05 am you can make your next reservation.   120 is not a limitation - it's an exception.  This is how to think of it - you can make your next reservation at the EARLIER of (1) when you tap into your prior reservation or (2) 120 minutes after you made your prior reservation.
> 3.  Yes - if your return times are close together you can keep going like that all day subject to the one LL per ride rule.
> 4.  Apparently yes - you can book a reservation for your second park post 2-pm at 7am.  How that affects you depends on what rides are available 2 hours after your first park opens.  Say you get a 2pm reservation for Test Track.  Well - at 11am in MK you're going to be limited (not technically - just due to your time contraints) to picking a ride with a return time probably up to 1pm or so to ensure you can get to Epcot in time.  One strategy people are discussing is just to book LL at your second park for the afternoon at 7am, 11am, and 1pm (for a 9am opening park) and just do standby in your first park starting at rope drop.
> 5.  You can book a 10-11G+ in your first park.  But if the park opens at 10 you won't be able to book in your second park until you either tap into the first ride or at noon - which ever is first.



THANK YOU SO SO MUCH!
So, the 120 minute I was getting hung up on is exactly what you stated, it's an exception.
IF I had over 120 minutes prior to my next G+, I could make the second at 120 minutes. I believe I understand what you wrote; however, not sure if I am explaining how I understand it correctly. 
If I book a 2 pm, G+ at my second park, I cannot make a G+ until 120 minutes after the first park opening.
THANK YOU!  I think I would just use IA$$ for my second park and RD the first park.



LSUfan4444 said:


> Can I book a 10-11 am G+ (if park opens at 10 am) at 7 am and also a 2 pm, G+?
> -Not at the same time, no
> If so, when can I book my next G+? After I tap in at 10:01 to my first G+?
> -After your second tap at your first reservation


Thank you. Is it correct that you are saying I cannot book a 10 am G+ in my first park and a 2 pm in the second park?
I thought I finally understood this and that I can.
OR, is this correct:

At 7 am, I can book 2 pm or later in my second park.
I have to wait until 120 minutes after my first park opening to book the second. Is this correct?
If I have to wait the 120 minutes, in say, MK to book my first G+ and it opens at 10 am, when I book at 12 pm, and get (just hypothetical) 1 pm - 2 pm, and I tap in at 1:01 pm, can I then book my next G+?

Thank you so much. Leaving three weeks from today.


----------



## LSUfan4444

MakiraMarlena said:


> WDW seems to be clarifying ILLS refund status - if the attraction breaks down  and never reopens that day, they are looking to provide automatic refunds, apparently to the payment method used for the reservation. If the purchaser is unable to wait for the attraction to reopen, they would need to go to Guest Services and request a refund.


Can you imagine being in that meeting when someone asked originally...."Should we refund the guest if the ride is down all day?"

"Nah...just tell them to go to guest relations if they want a refund. Our policy clearly states no refunds"


----------



## LSUfan4444

js said:


> At 7 am, I can book 2 pm or later in my second park.
> I have to wait until 120 minutes after my first park opening to book the second. Is this correct?


Yes



js said:


> If I have to wait the 120 minutes, in say, MK to book my first G+ and it opens at 10 am, when I book at 12 pm, and get (just hypothetical) 1 pm - 2 pm, and I tap in at 1:01 pm, can I then book my next G+?


yes


----------



## MakiraMarlena

It's like they didn't even consider what might occur if an ILLS attraction breaks down (looking at you, Rise of the Resistance)


----------



## OhDannyBoy

LSUfan4444 said:


> Can you imagine being in that meeting when someone asked originally...."Should we refund the guest if the ride is down all day?"
> 
> "Nah...just tell them to go to guest relations if they want a refund. Our policy clearly states no refunds"


This policy pretty much guarantees I will not pay more to ride one specific ride. G+ is one thing as I have other things I can use it for.

But if I'm going to wait in a long line, it will be to ride something, not to get my money back for something I paid more to ride.


----------



## LSUfan4444

OhDannyBoy said:


> This policy pretty much guarantees I will not pay more to ride one specific ride. G+ is one thing as I have other things I can use it for.
> 
> But if I'm going to wait in a long line, it will be to ride something, not to get my money back for something I paid more to ride.


Well, the good news is that they have decided to just auto refund those guests when an attraction is closed all day (just reported in the last hour or so)
https://www.wdwmagic.com/other/disn...-lane-purchases-impacted-by-ride-closures.htm


----------



## leeniewdw

Any thoughts on what happens when one of the ILL$ rides is taken out of service for maintenance?  Thinking of Everest in AK in early 2022.  Will the add a different ride, or just go on with just FoP?


----------



## LSUfan4444

leeniewdw said:


> Any thoughts on what happens when one of the ILL$ rides is taken out of service for maintenance?  Thinking of Everest in AK in early 2022.  Will the add a different ride, or just go on with just FoP?


If I had to guess, I would think they would add something. Everest isn't worth an ILL so I can't imagine what they replace it with that would be.

Unless I can ride an elephant or play with the monkeys or something .


----------



## PepperjackDragon

Yikes. So, we were out late for extended evening hours--which were great, I would say close to but slightly smaller crowds than boo bash. I was planning to wake up at 7but failed, so we did not get the Genie plus today. OMG, what a disaster. The posted wait times all spiked at 10am, but on the ground it was even worse.  Splash went down for a couple of hours the line for Thunder was wrapping around frontierland, though the posted wait time only said 45. I spoke to someone on Tom Sawyer island that went when the posted wait time was "35" and the line hadn't gotten to the bridge yet, and she said it was actually 75 minutes until they got on. She also said she counted on Frozen yesterday and they were letting in 35LL/5SB. Based on what I saw today I definitely believe it. SB was out of control on everything. Fortunately, once Splash came back everyone ran to that, the LL obviously filled up and the SB wrapped around fronteirland for IT then-still said 25 minutes but NO QUESTION it was 60+ for SB. Fortunately for that brief window Thunder was only like a 15min wait (though it still said 45min when we got off)

Either way, we left and are about to head to HS, hopefully it will be better in the evening than MK was this morning, but man, not worth it without Genie plus if you want the rides. I was ok since we rode most everything last night, but without that I would be furious right now. At least MK in the morning/afternoon dont even think about skipping on Genie+ if this is how Thursdays are.


----------



## MakiraMarlena

I think the idea was to have two per park, although AK is kind of hurting for ILLS-worthy attractions. Everest this week barely broke 20 minute standby lines.


----------



## OhDannyBoy

LSUfan4444 said:


> or play with the monkeys or something .


Sir this is a family park....


----------



## LSUfan4444

OhDannyBoy said:


> Sir this is a family park....


Well my daughter and wife can play with them too, I won't be selfish.


----------



## kilik64

leeniewdw said:


> Any thoughts on what happens when one of the ILL$ rides is taken out of service for maintenance?  Thinking of Everest in AK in early 2022.  Will the add a different ride, or just go on with just FoP?


Id think they move the Safari there while the refub on Everest is done.


----------



## OhDannyBoy

LSUfan4444 said:


> Well my daughter and wife can play with them too, I won't be selfish.


----------



## leeniewdw

LSUfan4444 said:


> If I had to guess, I would think they would add something. Everest isn't worth an ILL so I can't imagine what they replace it with that would be.
> 
> Unless I can ride an elephant or play with the monkeys or something .



Heh-- Everest is really one of my faves, so I'm so bummed it'll be down when we are there.  One of my kids rode it like 10 years ago and the other has not at all (they are in their 20s).  It would have been a really fun ride for all of us to do together!


----------



## MomEadon

thank you

 We are a family of stroll in at nooners (3 kids ages 5, 4, and 2)

We still paid the same ticket price and same G+ added cost. Why should we be at a disadvantage? thats so silly



DavidNYC said:


> That is impossible under the system they wanted to create.  You're not allowed to go into the park until 2pm so it makes no sense to allow people to make ride reservations for a time they are not permitted to use and it would cause MAJOR headaches for Disney cast members.  You are proposing a massively inefficient system to satisfy your own whims on who you would like to favor.  You keep using the word "advantage".  It's not an advantage to anything but your own narrow sense of how you personally would like to system to work and how you personally value things.  I have already pointed out that to do any of these things you are both gaining and giving up.  Your own subjective weighing of those is irrelevant.  Even your statement about people who stroll in at noon should be at a disadvantage is a very selfish statement.  Why?  I'm sorry, did I miss the discount available to those who stroll in at noon?  Your whole argument is based on how YOU want to tour the parks.  And, they are at a disadvantage - the lost three hours of prime park time and have less time to tour the parks and have lost opportunities to book LL they would have had if they were there are rope drop.  I'm not sure what sort of false scenarios you're creating in your head on how this system favors them over other people but they don't exist.
> 
> As for mid-day breaks - yes - it is a hell of lot less convenient now to take a mid-day break or go to the parks later and I have been pointing that out since they announced this whole system.  But that has absolutely nothing to do with being able to make a reservation for a park you want to hop to.


----------



## Disturbia

I just looked at changing tickets; so for 4 riders at $15.98 for 7 days is $447.31; 

On top of this, lightening lanes would double this price.  But you really need to only book one and rope drop the other.


----------



## LSUfan4444

leeniewdw said:


> Heh-- Everest is really one of my faves, so I'm so bummed it'll be down when we are there.  One of my kids rode it like 10 years ago and the other has not at all (they are in their 20s).  It would have been a really fun ride for all of us to do together!


Ours too...we didnt even make a park ressie this trip. May catch an ILL for FoP and make an afternoon there but thats about it.


----------



## PepperjackDragon

MakiraMarlena said:


> I think the idea was to have two per park, although AK is kind of hurting for ILLS-worthy attractions. Everest this week barely broke 20 minute standby lines.


THey weren't 20 minutes either. In person they were actually 10-12 and most of that was just because it took so long to walk through the physical line, not even stopping until the middle of the final room simply because they had to start asking group sizes/etc.

However, it is definitely building momentum. The first day iphone did not push out the update, I manually updated mine but my wife didn't. Then yesterday it was pushed out as an auto update. Today I saw 2 families on the bus purchasing ILL$. One of them was talking loudly and saying frantically that the last ones they could purchase were for 840pm, the mom was frantic saying they couldn't buy it until they were in the park, then the dad proclaimed he had just got it and you would have sworn they just won the lottery. Don't know what ride it was (they looked dressed for MK, but hopefully the excitement was over ROTR). Either way, from what I have seen, people are more than willing to pay up.

 People were using it at Epcot yesterday, though were pretty visibly horrified when we-a line of one family with no one else behind or in front of us-were stopped to let them in front on Spaceship Earth. It was a pretty funny Lightning lane. Nothing funny about the actual wait times at MK today, though.


----------



## DisneyFive

LSUfan4444 said:


> Ours too...we didnt even make a park ressie this trip. May catch an ILL for FoP and make an afternoon there but thats about it.


Yeah, agreed.  Animal kingdom has become our least favorite park by quite a margin. There just is not a lot of repeat factor there for us anymore. As much as we love the shows they just don’t mean as much to us anymore. Still love FOP and EE, and Dinosaur to a lesser extent but that’s about it.  The layout of the park is just so discombobulated as well.   We did love doing the animation class again in Rafiki‘s planet watch. That was a really nice addition this year.  In our 10 days at WDW this summer, we only spent approximately half a day at animal Kingdom. G+ has the least amount of value at this park in my opinion

Dan


----------



## PepperjackDragon

LSUfan4444 said:


> Ours too...we didnt even make a park ressie this trip. May catch an ILL for FoP and make an afternoon there but thats about it.



Might not need to. We went on the 19th, it said 45 or 50 minutes, but it was a straight walk up to the final room. LL would have saved us 8 minutes. If they don't sell out, might be worth it to wait until you are there and just see what it looks like.


----------



## Disturbia

DavidNYC said:


> 1.  You can book any IA$$ rides in any park with the caveat that if it is not the park you have a reservation for - you will only be offered times after 2pm.
> 2.  When you tap in at 10:05 am you can make your next reservation.   120 is not a limitation - it's an exception.  This is how to think of it - you can make your next reservation at the EARLIER of (1) when you tap into your prior reservation or (2) 120 minutes after you made your prior reservation.
> 3.  Yes - if your return times are close together you can keep going like that all day subject to the one LL per ride rule.
> 4.  Apparently yes - you can book a reservation for your second park post 2-pm at 7am.  How that affects you depends on what rides are available 2 hours after your first park opens.  Say you get a 2pm reservation for Test Track.  Well - at 11am in MK you're going to be limited (not technically - just due to your time contraints) to picking a ride with a return time probably up to 1pm or so to ensure you can get to Epcot in time.  One strategy people are discussing is just to book LL at your second park for the afternoon at 7am, 11am, and 1pm (for a 9am opening park) and just do standby in your first park starting at rope drop.
> 5.  You can book a 10-11G+ in your first park.  But if the park opens at 10 you won't be able to book in your second park until you either tap into the first ride or at noon - which ever is first.


The 120 rule is Not  after you made your reservation, it’s from park opening IF your reservation is later in the day

https://allears.net/2021/10/19/the-confusing-120-minute-disney-genie-rule-you-need-to-know/


----------



## DavidNYC

Disturbia said:


> The 120 rule is Not  after you made your reservation, it’s from park opening IF your reservation is later in the day
> 
> https://allears.net/2021/10/19/the-confusing-120-minute-disney-genie-rule-you-need-to-know/


Correct - I missed that one additional caveat that if you make your first reservation prior to park opening, the 120 clock doesn't start ticking until park opening.  But the general rule is still no more than 120 minutes from when you made your reservation other than a first reservation made prior to opening.


----------



## Disturbia

LSUfan4444 said:


> I can go online at 12:01 and purchase G+ for the "next" morning of my reserved park.
> - You can. I wouldn't and would just wait until the morning but you can
> Let's say the park I chose opens at 10 am.
> I can go online at 7 am and book my first G+ for 10 am - 11 am.
> I can also then pay for IA$$ at that time and book for the park where I have my reservation.
> ***QUESTION: Can I book IA$$ for my park where I will hop?
> -Yes, you can book both ILLs and they can be in any park, reservation there or not
> If I book my first GP for 10-11 am and tap in at 10:05 am, can I book my next G+ or do I have to wait 120 minutes?
> -Yes, as soon as you "second tap"
> If I do not have to wait, I can just keep trying all day for different attractions using G+ as soon as I tap into my G+ attraction?
> -Yes
> 
> If I know I am hopping that day (I have AP and a resort stay), can I book at the second park for a 2 pm G+ at 7 am (if available)? If so, how does that then matter to my first park G+?
> -Yes, it means the first G+ reservation you can make in your first park can only be made 120 minutes after it opens
> Can I book a 10-11 am G+ (if park opens at 10 am) at 7 am and also a 2 pm, G+?
> -Not at the same time, no
> If so, when can I book my next G+? After I tap in at 10:01 to my first G+?
> -After your second tap at your first reservation


If you have a 2 pm G+ booked at 7 am, you can get a Genie + 120 minutes from opening, so 10 am opening means 12 pm.  That’s how I understand the 120 min rule (so basically you‘re planning to standby 10-12pm)

The other option is at 7 am, book a 10 am pass, ride by 10:05, book another..and another… and another until noon and then book a 2 pm at 12 pm and break for lunch (Standby/lunch 12-2 pm)


----------



## LSUfan4444

PepperjackDragon said:


> Might not need to. We went on the 19th, it said 45 or 50 minutes, but it was a straight walk up to the final room. LL would have saved us 8 minutes. If they don't sell out, might be worth it to wait until you are there and just see what it looks like.


Good point...it's a low crowd right now and 4:15 but the ILL return time is 6:20 pm and the standby posted is 55. At $11pp ($33 total), is that worth less than an hour?

ETA - they also have everest running now to help with crowds and they wont on our next trip in january


----------



## Disturbia

Jrb1979 said:


> I get what you are saying. My issue is why should somebody with a park hopper get an advantage over the person who made a reservation for said park.  It should be the same availability for everyone. If anything the people that get an advantage are those you get up at ,7am and rope drop.


They paid $60 for a park hopper

edit: we havent purchased one in years; it’s variable starting at $65 and 4-10 day tickets are $85!


----------



## DavidNYC

Jrb1979 said:


> I'm not saying let people reserve times before 2pm. I'm saying only show return times after 2pm when it's available. If that means it takes til noon for 2pm times show up so be it.  The more they get away from FP+ the better.



Not sure why you're obsessed with trying to punish a certain segment of the Disney crowd based on your own personal preferences when Disney has clearly made a decision to allow some flexibility to those who BOUGHT park hoppers.  They've taken away enough flexibility with this new system.  At least with this they've allowed people with hoppers to use the Genie+ which they also BOUGHT, in whichever park they want to.  Just in the same way you could have used your 3 FP+ reservations in your second park of the day.   I mean, really - you're seeking to make life harder for a big demographic for no reason that you think some people should be disadvantaged compared to others who paid the same amount and simply choose to tour the park differently.  There is not a single element which is objectively unfair in allowing this.  I've outlined exactly why this makes sense and affects no one negatively in the aggregate while offering flexibility to many.  You can only point to a subjective unfairness without pointing to anyone harmed by it.


----------



## Disturbia

Let’s not get into arguments.  its not worth being banned for 10 days


----------



## acarsme123

I’ve been playing around on the MDE app trying to understand this LL system prior to our March trip. Seems like all the LL windows are so far out that you might as well just stand in the standby lines.


----------



## acarsme123

I don’t understand the point of this 120 minute rule. Why is Disney punishing you for making your first LL selection for a later time after opening?  If you made your first selection at noon or later, why shouldn’t you be able to make a LL selection for another ride that may have an earlier window?


----------



## Grasshopper2016

DisneyKidds said:


> For better or for worse, the changes Disney has been making for some time now, and especially lately, seem to reinforce the idea that Disney doesn’t really care about the long time, loyal, repeat guest. I’m sure they’ve done analyses that show the new, once in a blue moon visitors spend more per person per day at WDW than the frequent repeat visitors. If they can fill reservations with such higher revenue guests it bolsters the revenue numbers and bottom line. Is that a sustainable long term strategy? Who knows….


Agreed.  But I'm one who thinks it is _not _a sustainable long term strategy. It wouldn't hurt Disney to throw the regulars a bone from time to time, just in case I'm right.  



persnickity said:


> I don't think it's a loophole, or something that needs to be fixed. If you select a time further out, you are losing out on opportunities to book rides for two hours. Having two slots from that point forward is to make up for that. I think it's a good thing.


This is an excellent point.  It may not even be a loophole at all.


----------



## Brewerfan101

snikki said:


> I thought I had most of G+ figured out but now my head is spinning.
> 
> Ok I understand that G+ will only show me LLs for after 2 pm if I’m hoping if I put that into my day plans. Got it.
> 
> So you’re telling me that if my park reservation is at DHS and I put in G+ that I’m hoping to MK, G+ will let me make a LL at Splash at 7 am for 2:30 pm even though people that actually have MK park reservations can only book next available which would be 9 am???
> 
> I thought I would have to wait for the window of 2 pm and after to open for everyone.


I'm with you, confused.  Part of the problem is a lot of people on this Thread are not at WDW, and therefor are speculating, best guessing, on how this system works.  

I just want to hear from those who are using it this week, and I know many on here are, it's just difficult to glean through some of the "noise" to find that information.  What do I want to know? 

Regarding Park Hopping, and it seems from the comments above that I can:

Make a LL selection as early as 7 am for my "Hopped" Park.  And it will only show those times after 2 p.m., correct?

*Example*: Park Reservation is Epcot
At 7 a.m. I make a LL Selection for Slinky (HS - my Hopped Park), Slinky Return time between 5:40 and 6:40 p.m.  Yes or No

1) Can I do that, (seems so from thread above), do I now have to wait until 2 Hrs after Epcot officially Opens before I can make ANY LL selections, either for Epcot or HS? Yes or No

2) IF I make a LL Selection while at Epcot at 12:01 p.m. (2 Hr Wait), for Tower of Terror, do I have to wait until 2:01 p.m. until I can make any LL selections (regardless of whether for Epcot or HS?)  Yes or No

3) *Or* must I wait until 2 p.m. before I can make ANY LL Selections for HS (my planned Hopped park)?

4) And lastly, I'm in Epcot (Hopping at 2 to HS), have my 5:40 - 6:40 LL For Slinky (as noted above), waited until 12:01 pm (2 Hr Wait time) to make LL for Test Track; once I "Tap" into Test Track, I can make another LL Selection, either for Epcot or HS.  YEs or No

*And I apologize if this has been asked and answered*,  I tried to Search on "Hopping" in this Thread, but even that is filled with a lot of info.


----------



## Disturbia

acarsme123 said:


> I don’t understand the point of this 120 minute rule. Why is Disney punishing you for making your first LL selection for a later time after opening?  If you made your first selection at noon or later, why shouldn’t you be able to make a LL selection for another ride that may have an earlier window?


I think it minimizes the risk of multiple pm passes and kind of forces you to book something earlier.  Pushes your 12-2 break to 9-11 am


----------



## Disturbia

Brewerfan101 said:


> I'm with you, confused.  Part of the problem is a lot of people on this Thread are not at WDW, and therefor are speculating, best guessing, on how this system works.
> 
> I just want to hear from those who are using it this week, and I know many on here are, it's just difficult to glean through some of the "noise" to find that information.  What do I want to know?
> 
> Regarding Park Hopping, and it seems from the comments above that I can:
> 
> Make a LL selection as early as 7 am for my "Hopped" Park.  And it will only show those times after 2 p.m., correct?
> 
> *Example*: Park Reservation is Epcot
> At 7 a.m. I make a LL Selection for Slinky (HS - my Hopped Park), Slinky Return time between 5:40 and 6:40 p.m.  *Yes* or No
> 
> 1) Can I do that, (seems so from thread above), do I now have to wait until 2 Hrs after Epcot officially Opens before I can make ANY LL selections, either for Epcot or HS? *Yes* or No
> 
> 2) IF I make a LL Selection while at Epcot at 12:01 p.m. (2 Hr Wait), for Tower of Terror, do I have to wait until 2:01 p.m. until I can make any LL selections (regardless of whether for Epcot or HS?)  *Yes* or No
> 
> 3) *Or* must I wait until 2 p.m. before I can make ANY LL Selections for HS (my planned Hopped park)? *No*
> 
> 4) And lastly, I'm in Epcot (Hopping at 2 to HS), have my 5:40 - 6:40 LL For Slinky (as noted above), waited until 12:01 pm (2 Hr Wait time) to make LL for Test Track; once I "Tap" into Test Track, I can make another LL Selection, either for Epcot or HS.  *YEs* or No
> 
> *And I apologize if this has been asked and answered*,  I tried to Search on "Hopping" in this Thread, but even that is filled with a lot of info.



yes for all except no 3; you can hop to either park and book either after test track (most likely limited availability by then)


----------



## Jrb1979

acarsme123 said:


> I don’t understand the point of this 120 minute rule. Why is Disney punishing you for making your first LL selection for a later time after opening?  If you made your first selection at noon or later, why shouldn’t you be able to make a LL selection for another ride that may have an earlier window?


It's to keep as much availability open as best as possible. They are trying to avoid having a lot of rides booed early.


----------



## dmunsil

Orsino said:


> Hmmm. This looks suspicious to me. While I can believe that Genie+ is currently functioning this way, I don't believe it was intended to be this way. If this is how Genie+ works currently, Disney should fix it as this loophole is kind of glaring.



I burned $15.98 and verified that it does in fact work this way - if you wait 2 hours without being eligible some other way, you can make another, and if you cancel or let expire any of your outstanding G+ reservations, no matter when they were made, you can immediately make another.

I think this way is actually easier to explain to guests. Two simple rules:

- If you use, cancel or let expire an existing reservation, you can make another
- If 2 hours pass of non-eligibility, you can make another



> For example:
> Someone who books before 9AM opening for 10:55AM and taps in at 10:55AM will then end up holding one new LL.
> vs
> Someone who books before 9AM opening for 11:05AM and then books a new LL at 11AM, then taps in at 11:05AM and books another LL? That's crazy different for a small shift in time.



The whole point of the rule is to make sure the maximum time you'll have to wait for another reservation is 2 hours. There's no minimum time they're trying to enforce. But yes, I agree that it feels problematic, because the implication is that you can get reservations, _one at a time_, but this combination of rules allows you to have 2 or even more at one time. I don't think that's really a problem Disney cares about; the original FP definitely allowed you to be holding many reservations at once.

That said, if the power users start min-maxing the heck out of the system and are grabbing most of the capacity, Disney might do something to cut back on that kind of thing. They have in the past.

Here's another situation:

1. Before opening, you book a 10:05 G+ reservation, good from 10:05 to 11:05
2. You deliberately wait until 11:00, at which point you've waited 2 hours, so you book another
3. At 11:01 you use your earlier reservation, and immediately book another

Totally works. I just verified it (well, I cancelled at 11:01, because I'm not actually in the park). Note that if you try to book at any time before 11, Genie will say that you are eligible to book at 11, even though it knows you're holding a 10:05-11:05 reservation.

So basically, if your next reservation is almost but not quite 2 hours in the future, it's very useful to wait a little longer, let the 2 hours elapse, get another reservation, then immediately use your reservation, and get another.


----------



## monkeybug

Apologies if this information has been covered already, but at 7am (if the park you have reservations for opens at 9:00) can you purchase two ILLs and schedule a Genie+ LL all at once?  Or is it only the ILLs that you can schedule prior to park opening?


----------



## dmunsil

acarsme123 said:


> I don’t understand the point of this 120 minute rule. Why is Disney punishing you for making your first LL selection for a later time after opening?  If you made your first selection at noon or later, why shouldn’t you be able to make a LL selection for another ride that may have an earlier window?



Because unless there's some kind of limit, people will walk in and make reservations for every ride immediately.

The 2 hour rule is just a failsafe to make sure you can make a reservation at least every 2 hours in the worst-case scenario. That's it. Otherwise, the idea is to just make and hold one at a time.


----------



## dmunsil

monkeybug said:


> Apologies if this information has been covered already, but at 7am (if the park you have reservations for opens at 9:00) can you purchase two ILLs and schedule a Genie+ LL all at once?  Or is it only the ILLs that you can schedule prior to park opening?


You can do both, if you're staying in a Disney-owned resort (or Swan, Dolphin or Shades of Green). You can only do the Genie+ if you're staying somewhere else.


----------



## Spankymclovin

This may have already been covered or mentioned. If so, I'm sorry for bringing it up. I have watched a few Youtube videos from some of our favorite Vloggers when they are testing out wait times, ease of use, how it compares to using the standby line instead of Genie+. One video in particular made me realize something. The return times of Genie+ is so far out, I don't think they are allocating enough for people who purchase it. In this one video, he's talking about one ride is a 30 minute wait, and he looks at the lightning lane return time and it's for 2 hours later with Genie+. However, not once did he see anyone come through the lightning lane  while he was in the standby line. I hope Disney fixes this. If I am going to spend $60 for my family of three on this upcharge, I would think I wouldn't have to wait that long to get in that lane if no one is using it to start with. I also believe they should let you choose your return time from multiple times instead of the next one.  I am a huge supporter of fast pass and I will see a time when I would purchase Genie+ to be able to skip lines, but not the way they are doing it now.


----------



## ThistleMae

Grumpy by Birth said:


> My earlier comments about ROTR and ILL$ caused this random thought to pop into my head.  ROTR has gone to SB in lieu of BGs.  So, if you don't purchase ILL$, you can still get in the SB line and wait to ride it (good news for those who complained about BGs and not being given the option to wait to ride).
> 
> But Remy is still a BG ride.  So, if you are not successful in obtaining a BG for it, you can opt to purchase ILL$ for it instead.  Since there's no SB option, one could make the argument that you are not just purchasing expedited LL access, but you are, in fact, paying to ride it.  Because in that scenario (failed to get a BG), you wouldn't be able to ride it at all unless you pay.
> 
> That may strengthen the image of paying extra to "ride the rides" rather than paying extra to "skip the line."  Which will, in turn, have more people questioning whether it was worth $X to ride that.  There's already been a lot of speculation about families spending extra for, say, 7DMT ILL$ and then having buyer's remorse after riding it.  ("That's it?  I paid $X for that????")


Will you have access to Rat doing extra morning hours, or will you only have access via a BG or ILL$?


----------



## monkeybug

dmunsil said:


> You can do both, if you're staying in a Disney-owned resort (or Swan, Dolphin or Shades of Green). You can only do the Genie+ if you're staying somewhere else.


Oh wow, so staying on property means you basically start your day with 3 (if you want to shell out the money for two of them) and also get the advantage of getting 30 minutes before park opening.


----------



## Disturbia

dmunsil said:


> I burned $15.98 and verified that it does in fact work this way - if you wait 2 hours without being eligible some other way, you can make another, and if you cancel or let expire any of your outstanding G+ reservations, no matter when they were made, you can immediately make another.
> 
> I think this way is actually easier to explain to guests. Two simple rules:
> 
> - If you use, cancel or let expire an existing reservation, you can make another
> - If 2 hours pass of non-eligibility, you can make another
> 
> 
> 
> The whole point of the rule is to make sure the maximum time you'll have to wait for another reservation is 2 hours. There's no minimum time they're trying to enforce. But yes, I agree that it feels problematic, because the implication is that you can get reservations, _one at a time_, but this combination of rules allows you to have 2 or even more at one time. I don't think that's really a problem Disney cares about; the original FP definitely allowed you to be holding many reservations at once.
> 
> That said, if the power users start min-maxing the heck out of the system and are grabbing most of the capacity, Disney might do something to cut back on that kind of thing. They have in the past.
> 
> Here's another situation:
> 
> 1. Before opening, you book a 10:05 G+ reservation, good from 10:05 to 11:05
> 2. You deliberately wait until 11:00, at which point you've waited 2 hours, so you book another
> 3. At 11:01 you use your earlier reservation, and immediately book another
> 
> Totally works. I just verified it (well, I cancelled at 11:01, because I'm not actually in the park). Note that if you try to book at any time before 11, Genie will say that you are eligible to book at 11, even though it knows you're holding a 10:05-11:05 reservation.
> 
> So basically, if your next reservation is almost but not quite 2 hours in the future, it's very useful to wait a little longer, let the 2 hours elapse, get another reservation, then immediately use your reservation, and get another.


So if you booked 2 rides in the pm; do you have 2 cool down periods (2 gaps of 2 hours?)

edit:  2 hours after park opens AND again 2 hours after booking

so at 7 am I book a 2 pm Soarin then go to MK and ride standby 9-11; at 11 am book 4 pm Test track and at 1 pm I can finally book Genie+ 1-2 pm at MK; so this has limited stacking ability and would work better if park 1 opened at 8 am

not that great of a benefit if I’m waiting 60 mins for Jungle Cruise and Big Thunder


----------



## Jrb1979

Spankymclovin said:


> This may have already been covered or mentioned. If so, I'm sorry for bringing it up. I have watched a few Youtube videos from some of our favorite Vloggers when they are testing out wait times, ease of use, how it compares to using the standby line instead of Genie+. One video in particular made me realize something. The return times of Genie+ is so far out, I don't think they are allocating enough for people who purchase it. In this one video, he's talking about one ride is a 30 minute wait, and he looks at the lightning lane return time and it's for 2 hours later with Genie+. However, not once did he see anyone come through the lightning lane  while he was in the standby line. I hope Disney fixes this. If I am going to spend $60 for my family of three on this upcharge, I would think I wouldn't have to wait that long to get in that lane if no one is using it to start with. I also believe they should let you choose your return time from multiple times instead of the next one.  I am a huge supporter of fast pass and I will see a time when I would purchase Genie+ to be able to skip lines, but not the way they are doing it now.


I think part of it is they are still figuring out the balance of LL available. I also think they are trying to keep LL wait times as low as possible. 

As far as picking your return time, it goes against what Genie+ is meant to do. The goal is to keep people in the parks as long as possible and it allows Disney disperse the crowd to their benefit.   

As I've seen it posted by someone earlier. People need to stop comparing G+ to FP+. They should be comparing G+ to standby wait times.


----------



## Disturbia

Spankymclovin said:


> This may have already been covered or mentioned. If so, I'm sorry for bringing it up. I have watched a few Youtube videos from some of our favorite Vloggers when they are testing out wait times, ease of use, how it compares to using the standby line instead of Genie+. One video in particular made me realize something. The return times of Genie+ is so far out, I don't think they are allocating enough for people who purchase it. In this one video, he's talking about one ride is a 30 minute wait, and he looks at the lightning lane return time and it's for 2 hours later with Genie+. However, not once did he see anyone come through the lightning lane  while he was in the standby line. I hope Disney fixes this. If I am going to spend $60 for my family of three on this upcharge, I would think I wouldn't have to wait that long to get in that lane if no one is using it to start with. I also believe they should let you choose your return time from multiple times instead of the next one.  I am a huge supporter of fast pass and I will see a time when I would purchase Genie+ to be able to skip lines, but not the way they are doing it now.


They didn’t refresh to check for more openings.  I think Genie+ tries to spread crowds


----------



## Disturbia

ThistleMae said:


> Will you have access to Rat doing extra morning hours, or will you only have access via a BG or ILL$?


No RAT during morning or evening extra hours


----------



## dmunsil

Disturbia said:


> So if you booked 2 rides in the pm; do you have 2 cool down periods (2 gaps of 2 hours?)



No. The 2 hour rule only applies if nothing else occurs to reopen reservations. Here's the algorithm, as I currently understand it:

If Guest has Genie+:
- Guest begins the day eligible to book at 7:00
- Any time guest books a G+ LL, eligibility goes away and a timer is set to (the lesser of (the greater of 2 hours from now or 2 hours from park opening) and the *end* of the next reservation's window). The _next reservation_ could be the one she just booked, or some other one that's in the timeline already
- If the guest taps into a G+ reservation, eligibility returns and the timer is reset
- If the guest cancels a G+ reservation, eligibility returns and the timer is reset
- If the timer runs down, eligibility returns and the timer is reset

All of this only applies to G+ reservations. ILL reservations are completely separate and don't interact with G+ eligibility to book.

If you're ineligible, you can always see what the timer is set to by trying to book a new LL reservation and then clicking the Edit button when it says you're not eligible. It will say when you can book next.


----------



## wisblue

Jrb1979 said:


> I get what you are saying. My issue is why should somebody with a park hopper get an advantage over the person who made a reservation for said park.  It should be the same availability for everyone. If anything the people that get an advantage are those you get up at ,7am and rope drop.



As a counterpoint, I could say allowing hoppers to have earlier access to afternoon and LL reservations mitigates what would otherwise be a big disadvantage.

The Genie+LL system is much like paper FP, and that system did not work well for people who like to take a midday break then hop to a second park.

If your plan was to leave the first park early in the afternoon and then go to a second park around 5, any FP at the first park with a return time in early afternoon was worthless, and FPs at the second park were probably gone by the time you would get there. 

Making LL reservations at the second park for use after expected arrival helps the park hopper get the same value out of the G+ purchase as people who stay in one park all day.


----------



## shawthorne44

leeniewdw said:


> Any thoughts on what happens when one of the ILL$ rides is taken out of service for maintenance?  Thinking of Everest in AK in early 2022.  Will the add a different ride, or just go on with just FoP?



I think the many months of downtime is WHY it is an ILL$$$. They didn't want people complaining and wanting a G+ refund on their tickets because they love EE and that was the only reason that they added G+ to their tickets. 
I predict in the spring it will be G+. 
They said 7-8 ILL$$$ rides in the first announcements.


----------



## dmunsil

Another interesting thing from today's experiments: I've seen multiple people say you can't cancel a reservation once the arrival time comes up, but I just checked with two different reservations, and was able to cancel both times. On one, I canceled a few minutes after the arrival time came up, and on the other, I waited until 5 minutes before it would have expired. In both cases, I was able to cancel and immediately book another reservation.

I suppose it's possible they set it so you couldn't cancel once the reservation window opens, but so many people complained about it that they changed it.


----------



## Jrb1979

wisblue said:


> As a counterpoint, I could say allowing hoppers to have earlier access to afternoon and LL reservations mitigates what would otherwise be a big disadvantage.
> 
> The Genie+LL system is much like paper FP, and that system did not work well for people who like to take a midday break then hop to a second park.
> 
> If your plan was to leave the first park early in the afternoon and then go to a second park around 5, any FP at the first park with a return time in early afternoon was worthless, and FPs at the second park were probably gone by the time you would get there.
> 
> Making LL reservations at the second park for use after expected arrival helps the park hopper get the same value out of the G+ purchase as people who stay in one park all day.


I'm not saying that hoppers can't book early. All I'm saying is they shouldn't have different availability then people who are already in the park. What I am saying is there shouldn't be 2 buckets of availability. It all should be 1. Hoppers should only be allowed to start booking their 2nd park once return times past 2pm become available.


----------



## Spankymclovin

Jrb1979 said:


> I think part of it is they are still figuring out the balance of LL available. I also think they are trying to keep LL wait times as low as possible.
> 
> As far as picking your return time, it goes against what Genie+ is meant to do. The goal is to keep people in the parks as long as possible and it allows Disney disperse the crowd to their benefit.
> 
> As I've seen it posted by someone earlier. People need to stop comparing G+ to FP+. They should be comparing G+ to standby wait times.


I understand, but if I am paying for a feature that allows me to bypass the standby line on a ride I want to ride and there is no times available and I go ahead and use that standby line to ride the ride .It's very frustrating to see NO ONE using the lightning lane during the entire time I am in it because Genie+ says there isn't an availability until 2 hours later. This is what should be fixed. I know this is still new and I hope they plan on making adjustments. With that being said, the individual paid lines are completely full. Seems like Disney is prioritizing those rides over the regular genie+ experience.  I will be in the park in 35 days and I will be spending 10 days in the parks of my 11 day trip with 12 other folks. Genie is meant for people who do not go to Disney World very often and he do not enjoy planning. However, Genie+ should be the bridge to those of us who know what we want to ride and do not need our hands held to do it. Paying a extra $15 per person per day should allow you to a bit more control over your trip in my opinion.


----------



## gharter

Having tried to use Genie + the last several days, I just don't understand.
They had FP+, which was not perfect, but worked well. This could have easily been converted to Genie +.
I really dislike not being able to select a time for the LL, modify a LL, only use it once per ride.
The 2 hour rule makes sense.
From what I've read, you can cancel a LL, but if you do it twice, you can't get another on for that attraction.  If that is incorrect please correct.


----------



## Sjm9911

Boardwalk III said:


> Would love that link as need to order one today for a trip in a couple of weeks!


https://www.amazon.com/Solar-Power-...d_rd_i=B07FDXDB3W&psc=1&ref_=pd_bap_m_rp_1_sc


this is what i got. Most i think are made in the same place and they stamp a diffrent name on it.


----------



## LSUfan4444

acarsme123 said:


> I don’t understand the point of this 120 minute rule. Why is Disney punishing you for making your first LL selection for a later time after opening?*  If you made your first selection at noon or later, why shouldn’t you be able to make a LL selection for another ride that may have an earlier window?*


Thats pretty much what the 120 minute rule is


----------



## LSUfan4444

Brewerfan101 said:


> I'm with you, confused.  Part of the problem is a lot of people on this Thread are not at WDW, and *therefor are speculating, best guessing, on how this system works. *
> 
> I just want to hear from those who are using it this week, and I know many on here are, it's just difficult to glean through some of the "noise" to find that information.  What do I want to know?



Thats not true at all but good luck.


----------



## LSUfan4444

dmunsil said:


> So basically, if your next reservation is almost but not quite 2 hours in the future, it's very useful to wait a little longer, let the 2 hours elapse, get another reservation, then immediately use your reservation, and get another.



Think about that though...if you're going to wait to use your first and just ride standby why make the first G+ in the first place? You could accomplish the same thing by just booking your first with a return window of say, 11:15 am and booking your second one at 11.

The result is still the same isn't it? At 11:30 you have two G+ and have ridden standby all morning.


----------



## wisblue

Jrb1979 said:


> I'm not saying that hoppers can't book early. All I'm saying is they shouldn't have different availability then people who are already in the park. What I am saying is there shouldn't be 2 buckets of availability. It all should be 1. Hoppers should only be allowed to start booking their 2nd park once return times past 2pm become available.



I understand that’s what you’re saying, but if someone is going to be out of a park for some period of time while hopping, they aren’t using LL or anything else during that time. That makes Genie+ less valuable to that user. Giving them an early shot at a later LL levels out that disadvantage for guests who are paying more per day for their park tickets.

This is probably one of those things where people who benefit think it’s fair and those who don’t benefit think it’s unfair. Not unlike offsite guests who think it’s unfair for resort guests to get earlier access to some things.

BTW, that unpredictability of when people with FP or LL reservations will return is one factor that makes it impossible for Disney to provide precise standby wait times.


----------



## Jrb1979

wisblue said:


> I understand that’s what you’re saying, but if someone is going to be out of a park for some period of time while hopping, they aren’t using LL or anything else during that time. That makes Genie+ less valuable to that user. Giving them an early shot at a later LL levels out that disadvantage for guests who are paying more per day for their park tickets.
> 
> This is probably one of those things where people who benefit think it’s fair and those who don’t think it’s unfair. Not unlike offsite guests who think it’s unfair for resort guests to get earlier access to some things.


You don't have to be in the park to use Genie+.


----------



## DavidNYC

acarsme123 said:


> I don’t understand the point of this 120 minute rule. Why is Disney punishing you for making your first LL selection for a later time after opening?  If you made your first selection at noon or later, why shouldn’t you be able to make a LL selection for another ride that may have an earlier window?


You're misunderstanding what the 120 minutes means . . . . is has nothing to do whatsoever with what return windows you're allowed to book.    Even calling it a 120 minute rule is misleading.  The rule is that you can make another LL selection after you've tapped in to your prior one.  However - to protect people who might select a ride with a return time much later in the day, you are allowed to make a new selection 120 minutes following your prior selection (or 120 minutes after park opening for selections you made prior to opening) even if you have not ridden your prior ride.  It is not a limitation or punishment on anyone.  It's a benefit to ensure you can make a new selection no longer than every two hours regardless of your return times.


----------



## LSUfan4444

> It all should be 1. Hoppers should only be allowed to start booking their 2nd park once return times past 2pm become available.



But it's not. If you're not hopping, keep that in mind when you plan and if you are, keep that in mind when you plan.


----------



## Missmaureen78

So...according to the park reservation calendar, this Saturday is sold out at MK.  That means we'll get to see how this all works on a day with capacity crowds?


----------



## DavidNYC

Spankymclovin said:


> I understand, but if I am paying for a feature that allows me to bypass the standby line on a ride I want to ride and there is no times available and I go ahead and use that standby line to ride the ride .It's very frustrating to see NO ONE using the lightning lane during the entire time I am in it because Genie+ says there isn't an availability until 2 hours later. This is what should be fixed. I know this is still new and I hope they plan on making adjustments. With that being said, the individual paid lines are completely full. Seems like Disney is prioritizing those rides over the regular genie+ experience.  I will be in the park in 35 days and I will be spending 10 days in the parks of my 11 day trip with 12 other folks. Genie is meant for people who do not go to Disney World very often and he do not enjoy planning. However, Genie+ should be the bridge to those of us who know what we want to ride and do not need our hands held to do it. Paying a extra $15 per person per day should allow you to a bit more control over your trip in my opinion.


You're using faulty logic that because you didn't see anyone going through the line that no one had reservations for it.  Reservations are windows - not specific times.  There are set number that are distributed but Disney has no control over whether people use them at the beginning, middle or end of their window.  FP lines always ebbed and flowed as well.  There's nothing that can be done to fix that other than shorten a window which would be ridiculous.  There were a bunch of people that held LL passes for the time you were observing the line - they just didn't arrive when you were there.


----------



## Jrb1979

DavidNYC said:


> You're using faulty logic that because you didn't see anyone going through the line that no one had reservations for it.  Reservations are windows - not specific times.  There are set number that are distributed but Disney has no control over whether people use them at the beginning, middle or end of their window.  FP lines always ebbed and flowed as well.  There's nothing that can be done to fix that other than shorten a window which would be ridiculous.  There were a bunch of people that held LL passes for the time you were observing the line - they just didn't arrive when you were there.


They are probably still working on how much LL they give out at a time. It's going to take awhile before they figure out the optimal ratio.


----------



## Spankymclovin

DavidNYC said:


> You're using faulty logic that because you didn't see anyone going through the line that no one had reservations for it.  Reservations are windows - not specific times.  There are set number that are distributed but Disney has no control over whether people use them at the beginning, middle or end of their window.  FP lines always ebbed and flowed as well.  There's nothing that can be done to fix that other than shorten a window which would be ridiculous.  There were a bunch of people that held LL passes for the time you were observing the line - they just didn't arrive when you were there.


No, my logic isn't flawed. If you are in a stand by line for 30 minutes and NO ONE comes through the lightning lane during that 30 minute time but Genie+ says there are no availability to skip the line, something is wrong. I have no problem paying for a product if you get your money from the product. When one person buys the genie+ and can't ride as many rides in 3 hours as someone who uses the standby lines and rides more rides then why should I purchase Genie+. It serves no purpose. There are multiple videos now on youtube expressing this exact issue. What I am saying is Disney needs to increase the number of Genie+ lightning lane passes per hour. They have no problem giving out as many individual paid passes for rides such at Mickey and Minnies Runaway Railroad and such because those lines are packed.


----------



## luv2cheer92

DisneyFive said:


> Yeah, agreed.  Animal kingdom has become our least favorite park by quite a margin. There just is not a lot of repeat factor there for us anymore. As much as we love the shows they just don’t mean as much to us anymore. Still love FOP and EE, and Dinosaur to a lesser extent but that’s about it.  The layout of the park is just so discombobulated as well.   We did love doing the animation class again in Rafiki‘s planet watch. That was a really nice addition this year.  In our 10 days at WDW this summer, we only spent approximately half a day at animal Kingdom. G+ has the least amount of value at this park in my opinion
> 
> Dan


Its always interesting to me how different we all are. AK is still far and away our favorite park by an incredibly large margin, and where we spent a large majority of our time earlier this month (almost every day). I don't disagree with the G+ value though, our favorite things don't require G+, or lines at all really.


----------



## Grumpy by Birth

dmunsil said:


> Here's another situation:
> 
> 1. Before opening, you book a 10:05 G+ reservation, good from 10:05 to 11:05
> 2. You deliberately wait until 11:00, at which point you've waited 2 hours, so you book another
> 3. At 11:01 you use your earlier reservation, and immediately book another
> 
> Totally works. I just verified it (well, I cancelled at 11:01, because I'm not actually in the park). Note that if you try to book at any time before 11, Genie will say that you are eligible to book at 11, even though it knows you're holding a 10:05-11:05 reservation.
> 
> So basically, if your next reservation is almost but not quite 2 hours in the future, it's very useful to wait a little longer, let the 2 hours elapse, get another reservation, then immediately use your reservation, and get another.


Here's another possible spin on that strategy that doesn't make you awit to scan in (but requires strategically waiting until the available time is slightly more than 120 minutes away):

At 7 am, you book LL for 9:05 am.
At 9:05 am, you use that LL and book another for 11:06 am (which is more than 120 minutes in the future, but barely).
At 11:05 am, you book another LL (you can book another before scanning in because of the 120 minute rule).
Scan in for your 11:06 am LL and then book another (I haven't verified this, but I understood from an earlier post, that this "loophole" existed where you could book another LL after 120 minutes and then another after scanning in).

I'm interested to see if people's experience indicates that it's better to schedule next LL 2 hours out in the morning and ride SB (short waits early in the day?) or if people prefer to schedule a lot of them in quick succession if the next available is always only a few minutes in the future.


----------



## MomEadon

Maybe It’s planned in a way that it has down times to move the standby lines along?


----------



## LSUfan4444

Grumpy by Birth said:


> At 7 am, you book LL for 9:05 am.
> At 9:05 am, you use that LL and book another for 11:06 am (which is more than 120 minutes in the future, but barely).
> At 11:05 am, you book another LL (you can book another before scanning in because of the 120 minute rule).
> Scan in for your 11:06 am LL and then book another (I haven't verified this, but I understood from an earlier post, that this "loophole" existed where you could book another LL after 120 minutes and then another after scanning in).


Not playing semantics but you have these time windows way too close to be reality.

You won't really find return windows two hours in the future at 9:06 am so in reality, you'd end up waiting longer to book that second one which means your 120 minute clock is getting pushed down the road as you refresh and wait for something to come up with a 11:10 return window.


----------



## wisblue

Jrb1979 said:


> You don't have to be in the park to use Genie+.



Not to make reservations but if you’re not in a park for a few hours you aren’t going on rides using the Lightning Lanes.


----------



## dmunsil

LSUfan4444 said:


> Think about that though...if you're going to wait to use your first and just ride standby why make the first G+ in the first place? You could accomplish the same thing by just booking your first with a return window of say, 11:15 am and booking your second one at 11.
> 
> The result is still the same isn't it? At 11:30 you have two G+ and have ridden standby all morning.



You’re right, it’s almost the same situation. The value of booking before 11 and waiting is to get your double stack generated as fast as possible. With the 11:15 scenario, you don’t get to use your first G+ reservation until 11:15 vs having your first LL usage at 11:01, plus you can use any first reservation with a return time from 10:05 to 11:00, vs having to find something just after 11:00. Not a huge win, but it seems like something worth noting.


----------



## wisblue

luv2cheer92 said:


> Its always interesting to me how different we all are. AK is still far and away our favorite park by an incredibly large margin, and where we spent a large majority of our time earlier this month (almost every day). I don't disagree with the G+ value though, our favorite things don't require G+, or lines at all really.



One of the things that I and some (but not all) members of our family like about DAK is that there are things we enjoy (like strolling through the trails) that you can do in between rides.


----------



## Jrb1979

wisblue said:


> Not to make reservations but if you’re not in a park for a few hours you aren’t going on rides using the Lightning Lanes.


No you won't be. I'm sure most people will look for return times for when they go back outside of the park. IMO it's going to be a small minority who will try to stack late afternoon LL in the same fashion as FP+.


----------



## AZMermaid

Spankymclovin said:


> No, my logic isn't flawed. If you are in a stand by line for 30 minutes and NO ONE comes through the lightning lane during that 30 minute time but Genie+ says there are no availability to skip the line, something is wrong. I have no problem paying for a product if you get your money from the product. When one person buys the genie+ and can't ride as many rides in 3 hours as someone who uses the standby lines and rides more rides then why should I purchase Genie+. It serves no purpose. There are multiple videos now on youtube expressing this exact issue. What I am saying is Disney needs to increase the number of Genie+ lightning lane passes per hour. They have no problem giving out as many individual paid passes for rides such at Mickey and Minnies Runaway Railroad and such because those lines are packed.


InSeptember I bought $129 universal express passes for my son and I . The park was dead. I probably saved 20-30 minutes of waiting all day. Argh! I see G+ as similar. Sometimes it’s Probably great, other times- not needed. But Universal does limit the number of passes per day. Since G+ does not, I do fear availability issues when
i go Xmas week. But Universal is 10-15x the cost too.


----------



## wisblue

DavidNYC said:


> You're using faulty logic that because you didn't see anyone going through the line that no one had reservations for it.  Reservations are windows - not specific times.  There are set number that are distributed but Disney has no control over whether people use them at the beginning, middle or end of their window.  FP lines always ebbed and flowed as well.  There's nothing that can be done to fix that other than shorten a window which would be ridiculous.  There were a bunch of people that held LL passes for the time you were observing the line - they just didn't arrive when you were there.



Also, return times are issued in 5 minute blocks (9:05-10:05, 9:10-10:10, etc. If the number of spaces allotted for the first block are not all claimed, the return time moves ahead regardless. All of the slots for the next hour might be claimed but all of the ones for the previous hour were not.

All that would do is have fewer people who could enter the LL at a given time, which shouldn’t upset people in the standby line.


----------



## MainMom

Grumpy by Birth said:


> Here's another possible spin on that strategy that doesn't make you awit to scan in (but requires strategically waiting until the available time is slightly more than 120 minutes away):
> 
> At 7 am, you book LL for 9:05 am.
> At 9:05 am, you use that LL and book another for 11:06 am (which is more than 120 minutes in the future, but barely).
> At 11:05 am, you book another LL (you can book another before scanning in because of the 120 minute rule).
> Scan in for your 11:06 am LL and then book another (I haven't verified this, but I understood from an earlier post, that this "loophole" existed where you could book another LL after 120 minutes and then another after scanning in).
> 
> I'm interested to see if people's experience indicates that it's better to schedule next LL 2 hours out in the morning and ride SB (short waits early in the day?) or if people prefer to schedule a lot of them in quick succession if the next available is always only a few minutes in the future.


I think it’s going to depend on what the worth is of that booked genie+ for each party. For me booking one & using it at 9:05 when I can probably ride that ride with a relatively short wait has little value to me. Others may see it differently and feel like they are getting a lot when they can just stack whatever rides and don’t mind taking next available.


----------



## AZMermaid

Has anyone run into a scenario when the G+ time given is at your ADR? Specifically Slinky, since the others you have more control over the time you are booking.


----------



## trompettecon

This must be in here somewhere but I can not find the answer. Can anyone confirm that if you stay at the Marriott hotels associated with Disney (the Swan and the Dolphin) you can have the same ILL$ benefits as the Disney Resorts, meaning I can book them at 7h00? I'm seeing conflicting info.


----------



## dmunsil

trompettecon said:


> This must be in here somewhere but I can not find the answer. Can anyone confirm that if you stay at the Marriott hotels associated with Disney (the Swan and the Dolphin) you can have the same ILL$ benefits as the Disney Resorts, meaning I can book them at 7h00? I'm seeing conflicting info.


Yes, the Swan and Dolphin get that benefit. https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/faq/genie/lightning-lane-reservations/


----------



## Missmaureen78

MomEadon said:


> Maybe It’s planned in a way that it has down times to move the standby lines along?



I have had this thought as well.  It seems to me that both the free Genie tool and the dynamic nature of G+ reservations both give Disney - or its algorithm/AI - the ability to direct crowds in real time.  Go here, do this, come back here at this time - once we've had a chance to move some of these SB folks along.  Whether it will actually work is another question.  The Genie planner at least seems like a bust for now -- it sent Touring Plans' tester to Tom Sawyer Island for like a half hour today   Presumably it would learn over time but that seems pretty sophisticated for Disney IT.


----------



## cfw213

DavidNYC said:


> Tapping in means:
> 1.  When you tap into a ride that you have a LL booked for.  When you tap into a ride - you can make your next reservation.
> 2.  When you tap into a park.  You have to tap into your reservation park in order to be permitted to hop to another park.  So correct - your family cannot just meet you at Epcot at 2pm without either going to MK first or changing their reservation.
> 
> As for your first statement - the 120 minutes does not start to run until a park opens even if you make a reservation at 7am.  If you make a 7am reservation with an 11:30 return time, you can make your second reservation at 11am.  You can still make your second reservation if you have not tapped into the park.  *If you enter the park and tap into your 11:30 reservation, you can then make another reservation after you have tapped even though you also have the reservation you made at 11.*


Is this confirmed? That seems like a huge loophole. Wouldn’t you be able to have 2 g+ all day, leapfrogging each other in this situation?


----------



## Zippa D Doodah

My wife and I used Genie+ today at Hollywood Studios and Animal Kingdom. I would have gotten as much use for my money if I had simply lighted 30 dollars bills in the hotel parking lot and watched them burn. I grabbed a Slinky LL for 12:40 and a Toy Story for 2:30, but I could have simply stood in line instead of killing time waiting for my windows to open. Meanwhile my LL power was tied up so I couldn’t use it on lesser attractions.

Over at AK (got there about 3:30) crowds were insignificant. I used but did not need LL for KS and Dinosaur. Also used it for Navi River Journey. That ride had an hour standby. I don’t much care for the ride so wouldn’t have minded skipping it. Then hopped on standby line for FOP (posted an hour but was actually 30 minutes). Everest was down so didn’t get to do that.

All in all, Genie+ was a bust for us today. I’d consider using it again at MK but not at the other three parks. Disney needs more inventory; they’re way short on shows and attractions at the three lesser parks


----------



## js

Zippa D Doodah said:


> My wife and I used Genie+ today at Hollywood Studios and Animal Kingdom. I would have gotten as much use for my money if I had simply lighted 30 dollars bills in the hotel parking lot and watched them burn. I grabbed a Slinky LL for 12:40 and a Toy Story for 2:30, but I could have simply stood in line instead of killing time waiting for my windows to open. Meanwhile my LL power was tied up so I couldn’t use it on lesser attractions.
> 
> Over at AK (got there about 3:30) crowds were insignificant. I used but did not need LL for KS and Dinosaur. Also used it for Navi River Journey. That ride had an hour standby. I don’t much care for the ride so wouldn’t have minded skipping it. Then hopped on standby line for FOP (posted an hour but was actually 30 minutes). Everest was down so didn’t get to do that.
> 
> All in all, Genie+ was a bust for us today. I’d consider using it again at MK but not at the other three parks. Disney needs more inventory; they’re way short on shows and attractions at the three lesser parks



Thank you for this post. When you went on at 7 am, was 12:40 the first time you could get or did you chose that time? That is t so great. Thanks.


----------



## elgerber

js said:


> Thank you for this post. When you went on at 7 am, was 12:40 the first time you could get or did you chose that time? That is t so great. Thanks.


We also used it today at HS. We got Slinky for 10:10. Paid for the other two at 10:05 and 11:05. Did early entry with ToT and RnR,  went straight to MFSR after those. With 10 minute wait. So we had all of those and Star Tours LL done before noon. Did TSM with a LL  after lunch. Booked Test Track for 7:15 after we left HS and then booked Soarin for 6:30 once we were in Epcot, it has been more than two hours since we booked TT


----------



## Zippa D Doodah

js said:


> Thank you for this post. When you went on at 7 am, was 12:40 the first time you could get or did you chose that time? That is t so great. Thanks.


I went on at 7am, maybe a minute or two after. I originally got a 4:45 LL for Slinky but spent about 15 minutes gambling by unassigning it and hoping for earlier time slot. Eventually got it down to 12:40


----------



## Disturbia

Spankymclovin said:


> No, my logic isn't flawed. If you are in a stand by line for 30 minutes and NO ONE comes through the lightning lane during that 30 minute time but Genie+ says there are no availability to skip the line, something is wrong. I have no problem paying for a product if you get your money from the product. When one person buys the genie+ and can't ride as many rides in 3 hours as someone who uses the standby lines and rides more rides then why should I purchase Genie+. It serves no purpose. There are multiple videos now on youtube expressing this exact issue. What I am saying is Disney needs to increase the number of Genie+ lightning lane passes per hour. They have no problem giving out as many individual paid passes for rides such at Mickey and Minnies Runaway Railroad and such because those lines are packed.


They are trying to balance standby vs LL and disperse crowds


----------



## Disturbia

Grumpy by Birth said:


> Here's another possible spin on that strategy that doesn't make you awit to scan in (but requires strategically waiting until the available time is slightly more than 120 minutes away):
> 
> At 7 am, you book LL for 9:05 am.
> At 9:05 am, you use that LL and book another for 11:06 am (which is more than 120 minutes in the future, but barely).
> At 11:05 am, you book another LL (you can book another before scanning in because of the 120 minute rule).
> Scan in for your 11:06 am LL and then book another (I haven't verified this, but I understood from an earlier post, that this "loophole" existed where you could book another LL after 120 minutes and then another after scanning in).
> 
> I'm interested to see if people's experience indicates that it's better to schedule next LL 2 hours out in the morning and ride SB (short waits early in the day?) or if people prefer to schedule a lot of them in quick succession if the next available is always only a few minutes in the future.


Why are you spacing them 2 hours apart?  That 2 hour rule is only if you booked a late pass (say 2 pm; you have to wait until 10 am to book your rolling genie+ If park opened at 8 am), so you can make another genie+ 2 hours from park opening.

9 am book a pass and ride by 9:15 am
9:10 am book after second magic band scan (turnstile) in ride, book another 9:15-10:15
At 9:20 book 10:20-11:20


----------



## Disturbia

Also, I see diminished returns for double stacking (evening Genie+ booked early am) as you then have 2 cool off periods of 2 hours (4 hrs wasted)


----------



## Jrb1979

Disturbia said:


> Why are you spacing them 2 hours apart?  That 2 hour rule is only if you booked a late pass, so you can make another genie+ 2 hours from park opening.
> 
> 9 am book a pass and ride by 9:15 am
> 9:10 am book after second magic band scan (turnstile) in ride, book another 9:15-10:15
> At 9:20 book 10:20-11:20


That strategy sounds like the best use of G+. Booking one for late afternoon first thing in the morning, you end getting 2 or 3 at most from the way things have been going. 

Like I said before, IMO many are still trying to use G+ like they did FP+ and book the must do's first. I'm thinking the best plan is to rope drop those and buy the the headliners.


----------



## Disturbia

Here is the article on stacking and it’s not the best use of Genie+

https://allears.net/2021/10/21/how-can-you-stack-multiple-disney-genie-reservations/


----------



## ChanaC

Zippa D Doodah said:


> I grabbed a Slinky LL for 12:40 and a Toy Story for 2:30, but I could have simply stood in line instead of killing time waiting for my windows to open. Meanwhile my LL power was tied up so I couldn’t use it on lesser attractions.



I have been following around on the app and noticed this a lot. Maybe it's just because it's not a super busy time of year, but there appeared to be a lot of times where a line was 30 minutes long or you could get a LL time for an half hour from then. So you could get the LL and chill out somewhere for a bit (or maybe go on a ride with a short wait time or grab a snack) or just wait on the line. There are pros and cons to each, but in the end, on a week like this, it doesn't seem especially necessary, but maybe helpful.


----------



## Missmaureen78

Disturbia said:


> They are trying to balance standby vs LL and disperse crowds



This.  If they wanted to design a system where people could simply pay to skip lines, they could have.  They would have had to charge a lot more than $15, but they could have.  That is not this system.  No re-rides, early entry at every park every day, no pre-booking return times...this is designed to help them manage crowd levels and overall wait times for the system as a whole, not to reduce wait times (or, more accurately, time spent in a line) for individual guests.  That's neither good nor bad - assuming it functions as intended -- but that's what it is.

We looked into planning a WDW trip in 2018-19, but ultimately there was zero chance we were going to plan out our entire vacation 6 months in advance, franticly try to book fast passes at the crack of dawn on some random day, need to stick to a rigid schedule or risk being shut out of everything and refresh refresh refresh to try to beat 2 hour waits.  It's too early to say whether this system will be better overall for more people than the old one, but we're giving it a shot...whereas we absolutely would not have under the old system.

And we spend a lot of money -- A LOT -- on our vacations.


----------



## Sjm9911

Get the pass, do the standby, and then use the pass


----------



## DavidNYC

cfw213 said:


> Is this confirmed? That seems like a huge loophole. Wouldn’t you be able to have 2 g+ all day, leapfrogging each other in this situation?


Not a loophole.  System isn’t meant to limit how many you can hold - that all depends on return times.  Just meant so that it’s a maximum of 120 minutes before you can make the next one.  Otherwise - tap in to one and get to make another is the general rule.


----------



## larsonb74

Needing help, not sure if I did or am doing something wrong or if I have a glitch going on.  Opened my trip day for today MK day on MDE app.  Get into the Genie+ to purchase and only have a purple bar.  Doesn't say anything about purchasing it.  Change days to 1-2 out and it shows the purchase text in the purple bar.  What am I missing?  I thought AP holders had to purchase day of park visit and this could happen any time after 12am?  Kind words and directions appreciated.


----------



## larsonb74

Where did the purchase text go?  Doesn't do anything when I select it on today's park day for AP holder.


----------



## Katie Dawn

Well this is awkward:

We will be staying at one of the non-Disney owned Disney Springs hotels. This hotel qualifies for the "Early Theme Park Entry" so we can enter the park 30 minutes before official opening. But we DON'T qualify to make ILL$ purchases at 7am. We won't be able to do it until the park opens.

So we go in 30 minutes before opening (let's say 8:30am) and probably go to a headliner. Hopefully we're off the ride by 9am and I can make any ILL$ purchase then. But let's say it's 8:53am and we're really close to boarding the ride. I'm going to miss the 9:00am drop and ILL$ choices may be gone or what's left might be so late in the day we'll have left the park by then. So what to do? Do I move off to the side of the que and let families pass us while I try to get ILL$ secured? That would be... weird. And hopefully we would either be off the ride or still solidly in the line at 9am, but I can't exactly guarantee anything.

I'll figure it out, it's just a strange situation.


----------



## larsonb74

What it shows for tomorrow


----------



## larsonb74

What it shows for 2 days out.  For today though bar is blank and does nothing when selected.


----------



## Welsh_Dragon

larsonb74 said:


> View attachment 615342
> 
> What it shows for 2 days out.  For today though bar is blank and does nothing when selected.


Do you and everyone in your party have a park reservation for today? And do you all have a ticket package attached to your room resort? Or APs?


----------



## larsonb74

Welsh_Dragon said:


> Do you and everyone in your party have a park reservation for today? And do you all have a ticket package attached to your room resort? Or APs?



All have AP and reservations for MK today.


----------



## cfw213

DavidNYC said:


> Not a loophole.  System isn’t meant to limit how many you can hold - that all depends on return times.  Just meant so that it’s a maximum of 120 minutes before you can make the next one.  Otherwise - tap in to one and get to make another is the general rule.


Ok, neat. That should definitely help grab a few more passes.


----------



## larsonb74

Verified we fo still have reservations for today.  Confused, going with the flow I guess.


----------



## Welsh_Dragon

larsonb74 said:


> All have AP and reservations for MK today.


I feel your pain. Have you tried the usual nonsense of changing your default credit card, logging (everyone in your party? ) out of app and website, turning off devices, then going back in?


----------



## wisblue

Katie Dawn said:


> Well this is awkward:
> 
> We will be staying at one of the non-Disney owned Disney Springs hotels. This hotel qualifies for the "Early Theme Park Entry" so we can enter the park 30 minutes before official opening. But we DON'T qualify to make ILL$ purchases at 7am. We won't be able to do it until the park opens.
> 
> So we go in 30 minutes before opening (let's say 8:30am) and probably go to a headliner. Hopefully we're off the ride by 9am and I can make any ILL$ purchase then. But let's say it's 8:53am and we're really close to boarding the ride. I'm going to miss the 9:00am drop and ILL$ choices may be gone or what's left might be so late in the day we'll have left the park by then. So what to do? Do I move off to the side of the que and let families pass us while I try to get ILL$ secured? That would be... weird. And hopefully we would either be off the ride or still solidly in the line at 9am, but I can't exactly guarantee anything.
> 
> I'll figure it out, it's just a strange situation.



That probably depends on what ILLS you’re trying to get and for what time. Some of them don’t sell that fast and the availability won’t be much, if any, different after you get off the ride than it will be right at 9 AM.


----------



## PaladinButters

Katie Dawn said:


> Well this is awkward:
> 
> We will be staying at one of the non-Disney owned Disney Springs hotels. This hotel qualifies for the "Early Theme Park Entry" so we can enter the park 30 minutes before official opening. But we DON'T qualify to make ILL$ purchases at 7am. We won't be able to do it until the park opens.
> 
> So we go in 30 minutes before opening (let's say 8:30am) and probably go to a headliner. Hopefully we're off the ride by 9am and I can make any ILL$ purchase then. But let's say it's 8:53am and we're really close to boarding the ride. I'm going to miss the 9:00am drop and ILL$ choices may be gone or what's left might be so late in the day we'll have left the park by then. So what to do? Do I move off to the side of the que and let families pass us while I try to get ILL$ secured? That would be... weird. And hopefully we would either be off the ride or still solidly in the line at 9am, but I can't exactly guarantee anything.
> 
> I'll figure it out, it's just a strange situation.



Similar situation (kinda) a lot of people find themselves in when it's getting close to an afternoon BG / VQ drop (and a major reason against pushing LL selections to the evening before as some here keep suggesting they do- then it happens to everyone in the parks for every attraction available all at once across 4 gates).   Depending on the length of the attraction - if you're going to be a minute or two over time when you exit, the selections won't be that different (although we have yet to see how fast Rise goes on a busy park day) - if you're _just_ before the time I would have a couple families go ahead, it's not that weird.


----------



## LSUfan4444

Disturbia said:


> Also, I see diminished returns for double stacking (evening Genie+ booked early am) as you then have 2 cool off periods of 2 hours (4 hrs wasted)View attachment 615317


I definitely don't think there is an advantage to book a headliner later in the day just to stack...the advantage (to me) in booking a headliner later in the day is you know you will save the most time for one of the busiest and most popular rides of the day. Sure, you can pickup one, two or even three additional giving you the potential of using 4 G+ before 5 pm plus whatever you get after that but the real value is that hard to get Slinky Dog in the afternoon that he mentioned. Especially on a day you plan to rope drop MK, monorail over to Epcot for a late lunch at a food booth or two then head over to HS to close the evening down with your  LL for SDD+ and your ILL for Rise.

Stacking definitely isn't the best method for quantity but it helps for other reasons.


----------



## lorileahb

Disney app had a glitchy morning - uninstalled it and re-installed it twice - finally got to purchase FOP.  I'm not buying genie+ for animal kingdom day, but I was testing it... every time I clicked on get genie+ the button to click to buy it never worked.  Glad it wasn't Hollywood Studios day!


----------



## Jrb1979

LSUfan4444 said:


> I definitely don't think there is an advantage to book a headliner later in the day just to stack...the advantage (to me) in booking a headliner later in the day is you know you will save the most time for one of the busiest and most popular rides of the day. Sure, you can pickup one, two or even three additional giving you the potential of using 4 G+ before 5 pm plus whatever you get after that but the real value is that hard to get Slinky Dog in the afternoon that he mentioned. Especially on a day you plan to rope drop MK, monorail over to Epcot for a late lunch at a food booth or two then head over to HS to close the evening down with your  LL for SDD+ and your ILL for Rise.
> 
> Stacking definitely isn't the best method for quantity but it helps for other reasons.


Right now that plan works. I have this feeling as time goes on that will not work. Everyone seems to focus on that wait times for standby wil continue to be low in the morning. They are also trying to use Genie+ the same way as FP+ and use it for headliners. Standby likes are starting to be long first thing in the morning already. 

IMO in the end to get the most out of Genie+ is to book your first one for park open and continue to book the next earliest available. Partially that will have to do with Disney fine tuning availability to the point people are in the parks longer.


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

Jrb1979 said:


> IMO in the end to get the most out of Genie+ is to book your first one for park open and continue to book the next earliest available. Partially that will have to do with Disney fine tuning availability to the point people are in the parks longer.


I agree.  On high crowd days you will likely save the most time by continuing to pull next available.  That will be my plan for Thanksgiving week.  For lower crowd times, like now, it might make sense to stack later times and use standby during morning with shorter standby waits.


----------



## TheMick424

SDD definitely seems to be the hot item for Genie+. Will be following along until our next trip to see how this all shakes out.


----------



## MomEadon

Reading all the opinions here on stacking and when to do big ticket rides, I guess my question is, if I DON’T make that later reservation for a big ticket ride and I instead use it all day as I go, what happens with the big ticket ride we want?Is standby for that one better and then use Genie+ for everything else?


----------



## ENJDisneyFan

MomEadon said:


> Reading all the opinions here on stacking and when to do big ticket rides, I guess my question is, if I DON’T make that later reservation for a big ticket ride and I instead use it all day as I go, what happens with the big ticket ride we want?Is standby for that one better and then use Genie+ for everything else?


Yes - for headliners do either first thing in the morning or jump in line right before park closing.


----------



## elgerber

lorileahb said:


> Disney app had a glitchy morning - uninstalled it and re-installed it twice - finally got to purchase FOP.  I'm not buying genie+ for animal kingdom day, but I was testing it... every time I clicked on get genie+ the button to click to buy it never worked.  Glad it wasn't Hollywood Studios day!


Mine was too. It crashed 4 times when I was buying ROTR. Still got a pretty decent time but a bit later than what I was going for. 


TheMick424 said:


> SDD definitely seems to be the hot item for Genie+. Will be following along until our next trip to see how this all shakes out.


I have been using all week.SDD and ROTR are by far the hottest choices in any park.


----------



## Wood Nymph

Question - we are a party of three - 2 with AP's and 1 with park hopper tickets. Can one person purchase ILL$ for all three people?


----------



## jrsharp21

Was thinking this morning. What are the RunDisney participants going to do while they are on the course at 7am? LOL.  Runners stopping at 7am during the half and full marathon, whipping out their phones and booking their G+ reservations. LOL.


----------



## LSUfan4444

jrsharp21 said:


> Was thinking this morning. What are the RunDisney participants going to do while they are on the course at 7am? LOL.  Runners stopping at 7am during the half and full marathon, whipping out their phones and booking their G+ reservations. LOL.


I am training my wife as we speak LOL


----------



## larsonb74

Process to refresh Genie+ to see  alternative available times?


----------



## jrsharp21

LSUfan4444 said:


> I am training my wife as we speak LOL



LOL. My wife and I will both be on the course. Need to train my kids. But I don't know if they will get out of bed if we aren't there to wake them up. LOL.


----------



## Disturbia

lorileahb said:


> Disney app had a glitchy morning - uninstalled it and re-installed it twice - finally got to purchase FOP.  I'm not buying genie+ for animal kingdom day, but I was testing it... every time I clicked on get genie+ the button to click to buy it never worked.  Glad it wasn't Hollywood Studios day!


It’s so sad that this doesn’t shock me anymore


----------



## Disturbia

MomEadon said:


> Reading all the opinions here on stacking and when to do big ticket rides, I guess my question is, if I DON’T make that later reservation for a big ticket ride and I instead use it all day as I go, what happens with the big ticket ride we want?Is standby for that one better and then use Genie+ for everything else?


Standby would be better IF you did it rope drop (very difficult to do as yoI need to be in the first wave of people, not towards the back; if you’re towards the back it’s the same wait as someone who arrived 30 mins late) at closing.


----------



## Disturbia

LSUfan4444 said:


> I definitely don't think there is an advantage to book a headliner later in the day just to stack...the advantage (to me) in booking a headliner later in the day is you know you will save the most time for one of the busiest and most popular rides of the day. Sure, you can pickup one, two or even three additional giving you the potential of using 4 G+ before 5 pm plus whatever you get after that but the real value is that hard to get Slinky Dog in the afternoon that he mentioned. Especially on a day you plan to rope drop MK, monorail over to Epcot for a late lunch at a food booth or two then head over to HS to close the evening down with your  LL for SDD+ and your ILL for Rise.
> 
> Stacking definitely isn't the best method for quantity but it helps for other reasons.


Thats true.  SDD was at 5:45 pm 40 mins into park opening.  HS was a skip park for us for years, it added so much stress last 2 trips post COVID that it’s only one day on our upcoming trip.


----------



## Disturbia

larsonb74 said:


> All have AP and reservations for MK today.


Wow.  This is my fear.  can you try from a different device where history is not the same


----------



## HopperFan

Missmaureen78 said:


> So...according to the park reservation calendar, this Saturday is sold out at MK.  That means we'll get to see how this all works on a day with capacity crowds?



??  I just checked again, and Magic Kingdom is not sold out Saturday, not even for Annual Passholders.


----------



## Disturbia

So with stacking evening Genie+, I could be doing that at say 12 pm and 2 pm from the flight for 5-6 Test track, 6-7 Soarin pm on my travel day.  Buy Remy and Frozen stacked (at 7 am) and sit down dinner.

I don‘t have to be scanned in to the park to book the second Genie+?

Could I also book another at 4 pm for 7-8?


----------



## Sjm9911

Disturbia said:


> So with stacking evening Genie+, I could be doing that at say 12 pm and 2 pm from the flight for 5-6 Test track, 6-7 Soarin pm on my travel day.  Buy Remy and Frozen stacked (at 7 am) and sit down dinner.
> 
> I don‘t have to be scanned in to the park to book the second Genie+?
> 
> Could I also book another at 4 pm for 7-8?


Im not there now , and am not an expert but i think it depends on whats available next in the cue.   You can not pick the times for test track and sorring. So at 12 pm you could get a 130 pm slot or 830 pm slot. Depends on the day.


----------



## Grumpy by Birth

LSUfan4444 said:


> Not playing semantics but you have these time windows way too close to be reality.
> 
> You won't really find return windows two hours in the future at 9:06 am so in reality, you'd end up waiting longer to book that second one which means your 120 minute clock is getting pushed down the road as you refresh and wait for something to come up with a 11:10 return window.


That's a good point.  I didn't take into account that you might have to wait around until the return time available is far enough out to make this work.  That said, for more popular rides, the times would potentially be getting pushed out more quickly.

To the person who asked why schedule for 2 hours away?  My thinking was to use it for more popular rides where the times would get pushed out later anyway (as opposed to using it for a lot of "C-ticket rides" with close return times).  I was just brainstorming and hadn't taken the time to really analyze this strategy in detail.

My main point was building off an earlier comment about booking an LL that's 2 hours in the future.  What I was attempting to illustrate was that, rather than booking something that's right at the 2-hour mark, scanning into that ride, and booking another... it would be more advantageous if you book for slightly over 2 hours.  That way, you can book another LL at the 2-hour mark and then another a few minutes later when you scan in.

As pointed out, that is contingent on the stars aligning with available return times.  And some people might prefer to use it as often as possible instead of targeting the more popular rides specifically.


----------



## Disturbia

Hopping over to usage thread

https://www.disboards.com/threads/the-genie-usage-and-strategy-only-thread.3857056/


----------



## Sjm9911

Grumpy by Birth said:


> That's a good point.  I didn't take into account that you might have to wait around until the return time available is far enough out to make this work.  That said, for more popular rides, the times would potentially be getting pushed out more quickly.
> 
> To the person who asked why schedule for 2 hours away?  My thinking was to use it for more popular rides where the times would get pushed out later anyway (as opposed to using it for a lot of "C-ticket rides" with close return times).  I was just brainstorming and hadn't taken the time to really analyze this strategy in detail.
> 
> My main point was building off an earlier comment about booking an LL that's 2 hours in the future.  What I was attempting to illustrate was that, rather than booking something that's right at the 2-hour mark, scanning into that ride, and booking another... it would be more advantageous if you book for slightly over 2 hours.  That way, you can book another LL at the 2-hour mark and then another a few minutes later when you scan in.
> 
> As pointed out, that is contingent on the stars aligning with available return times.  And some people might prefer to use it as often as possible instead of targeting the more popular rides specifically.


Depending on the park and what your doing and when you arrive, it can work good that way. Just looking at MK now, most standby lines are 20 mins, and the LL on some of them are 3 hours away. So, do you wait in a 20 min line, or come back in 3 hours. Might be better to say get a LL for the 50 min standby line thats 3 hours out. Who knows.


----------



## Zippa D Doodah

larsonb74 said:


> Process to refresh Genie+ to see  alternative available times?


MDE aggravated me yesterday while I was trying to use G+. The only way I found was to open and close the app 2-4 times and then maybe it would show G+ options. In addition to that I had to log in using a code 4 times yesterday. I expected better for having paid for a product. I plan to email Disney and give them an account of my experience. I decided against standing in line at Guest Relations on the way out because it was time to eat


----------



## Sjm9911

Sjm9911 said:


> Depending on the park and what your doing and when you arrive, it can work good that way. Just looking at MK now, most standby lines are 20 mins, and the LL on some of them are 3 hours away. So, do you wait in a 20 min line, or come back in 3 hours. Might be better to say get a LL for the 50 min standby line thats 3 hours out. Who knows.


Just reloaded rhe page, and the LL times droped, waited another few min, and a lot of them dropped again. This looks like it will be a pita. So, some rides went from a 3 hour window, to 1..5 hour window to 30 mins. Lol.


----------



## Turksmom

I was at Disney 10/18-21 (off site 19-21). 10/18 went to AK (no Genie, no problems, everything walk on). 
Then Tuesday- opened phone to updated app, HS day, but only a half day. Tried to use the free Genie. I entered only 3 things I wanted to do- RNRC, MMRR, Pizze Rizzo. It would not let me adjust the times for when I'd be in the park and kept populating the entire day- made MMRR for 10:40 with an expected average wait, Rizzo for right at noon, RNRC for 1:40pm (which it listed as the highest expected wait). I removed all of the unwanted suggestions, and it repopulated again (changed a few, changed times for others), but kept the three I wanted, exactly where they were originally. 

Oldest had a migraine, so I decided to swap HS with Epcot (reserved for 10/20). Checked AP availability for HS on 10/20 , modified HS, booked Epcot. Modified Epcot- HS not available. Check calendar-available. Cancelled Epcot and tried to book HS as new reservation- told me I already had a reservation for that day (which I didn't). I decided to spend 10/20 at USO instead. Booked HS for 10/21

10/19 Youngest and I went to Epcot. While on the bus, decided to buy ILL$ for Remy- Genie would only show me HS plans, saying I didn't have a park reservation. Looked at park reservations- Epcot. Signed out and in 4 times and finally Genie recognized my reservations. ILL$ return times were available immediately, I selected an hour away. Paid with gift card. When we got there I decided I won't even try for VQ in November- the line was ridiculous. If anyone wants to ride, I'm just spending the money.

10/21 Arrived 15 minutes before regular opening. Started letting offsite guests through right at 9. Got behind a group that thought they had tickets, but didn't. It took CMs about 10 minutes to move them away from tapstiles to let other guests through. Straight to RNRC posted 25 min wait, took 10. Went to ToT, posted 35. Took about 30, LL traffic was really picking up while we were in standby. 

I still have no idea if I'll use G+ in November. Most likely not, based on this week. I definitely will not use the free one, and I'll throw $ at the ILL$, if anyone really wants to ride (but we've all been before and will again, so other than Remy, probably won't do that either)


----------



## Disturbia

Sjm9911 said:


> Im not there now , and am not an expert but i think it depends on whats available next in the cue.   You can not pick the times for test track and sorring. So at 12 pm you could get a 130 pm slot or 830 pm slot. Depends on the day.


At around 12 people would be booking evening passes and taking a break.  I wonder if you told genie you are taking a resort/pool break would genie then give evening passes Like park hopper?


----------



## ucfknight

Zippa D Doodah said:


> I would have gotten as much use for my money if I had simply lighted 30 dollars bills in the hotel parking lot and watched them burn



Don't you mean 31 dollar bills, 3 quarters, 2 dimes, and a penny?


----------



## Grumpy by Birth

LSUfan4444 said:


> I am training my wife as we speak LOL


Good luck with that.  I'm still trying to train mine after 35 years!


----------



## rmclain73

So I have now seen three videos on youtbue where people have used the free version of Genie and it seems like a complete disaster.  It does not do a good job at all with coming up with suggestions based on what you tell it you want to do .


----------



## Disturbia

rmclain73 said:


> So I have now seen three videos on youtbue where people have used the free version of Genie and it seems like a complete disaster.  It does not do a good job at all with coming up with suggestions based on what you tell it you want to do .


You need to know and have a plan of your own.  Genie is just trying to maybe minimize a bit of your park runaround but trying to disperse crowds and inflate times to temp you to spend$$$$


----------



## LSUfan4444

rmclain73 said:


> So I have now seen three videos on youtbue where people have used the free version of Genie and it seems like a complete disaster.  It does not do a good job at all with coming up with suggestions based on what you tell it you want to do .


Yeah...Ive seen the same, it just routes guests to the closest attraction with the shortest wait...regardless of whether it was something the user wanted to do or not.


----------



## LSUfan4444

The optimized on the fly touringplans app is a much better product right now and they have been doing a head to head with two people in the same park at the same time and they're blowing Genie away


----------



## HopperFan

Turksmom said:


> *I still have no idea if I'll use G+ in November. Most likely not, based on this week. I definitely will not use the free one, and I'll throw $ at the ILL$,* if anyone really wants to ride (but we've all been before and will again, so other than Remy, probably won't do that either)



I go Nov 1 - 5 days at WDW -1 day, maybe 2 at Universal.  Just son and I. 

Reading everything I can on what is happening now, what they are adjusting and wow ............. it is SO much to take in. They took what was a simple straight forward system and made it so complicated.  And we are the regulars ... imagine the new people OR they'll do what this is set up for ... follow along like sheep where Disney wants them to go, spend at restaurants that need more guests etc.

TODAY, I am with you. Likely ignore the Genie - def not giving it any input on my likes etc. I am thinking Genie+ for MK and skipping it at other parks unless I see wait times will eat our day.  Throw some money at Ratatouille for sure, maybe Rise.  Only because I haven't been on either one.  I'm okay not doing everything, we'll be back in January.  

My usual excitement about a trip is a bit tempered but I'm going to be flexible and go with open mind.  But I feel like by January the system will get lots worked out so I'm not going to get too invested yet.


----------



## cm8

We’re here now and it’s crazy! I was able to secure a boarding pass at 7 am and we’re in group 75. Our ETA was 1:20… They have now changed our virtual time 3 times!! They keep pushing our groups out for people paying for LL access. This is not okay. Our new boarding time is now 3:40 I didn’t plan to stay in Epcot all day because we’re doing the AH BB tonight and I need my rest before tonight!


----------



## leeniewdw

That stinks, but I don't think it's surprising that paid reservations are taking a priority.   But it's definitely good to know!


----------



## DisneyFive

larsonb74 said:


> Process to refresh Genie+ to see  alternative available times?


Here's how I do it.

1) Find the attractions you want a G+ for
2) Click on "Book Experience" for that attraction
3) Hit the "x" in the top left corner. (This backs you back out, and will then hold the attraction at correct location on your phone screen)
4) Now you can simply keep clicking on the "Tip Board" tab on the top left of the screen.  This will refresh the G+ return time each time you click it.
5) When you find a return time you are satisfied with, then go through the process to fully book it by clicking "Book Experience" and follow the prompts

Dan


----------



## CWTC

cm8 said:


> They keep pushing our groups out for people paying for LL access.


This is not surprising and frankly is what I would expect: it’s not actually that different from when there were SB and FP lines when SB would be held to push FP through.


----------



## mab2012

dmunsil said:


> I burned $15.98 and verified that it does in fact work this way - if you wait 2 hours without being eligible some other way, you can make another, and if you cancel or let expire any of your outstanding G+ reservations, no matter when they were made, you can immediately make another.
> 
> I think this way is actually easier to explain to guests. Two simple rules:
> 
> - If you use, cancel or let expire an existing reservation, you can make another
> - If 2 hours pass of non-eligibility, you can make another



Thanks so much for this.  It's the question I've been asking for a few days, but this is the first answer I've seen that's based on actual testing, rather than guessing.

Personally, I think it comes down to ease of use.  Even if the system could be written to keep track of when a user should and should not be able to immediately rebook (and that's a non-trivial problem, especially when you start getting into situations with more than two passes outstanding, or cancellations), it would be way too confusing for most users.


dmunsil said:


> That said, if the power users start min-maxing the heck out of the system and are grabbing most of the capacity, Disney might do something to cut back on that kind of thing. They have in the past.



Maybe, but I think it's ultimately self-limiting.  If there's lots of availability, there's not really any reason to care.  And if there's not, waiting for two hours to "gain" a slot is likely going to push return times so late that you're not going to be able to rebook it anyway.



dmunsil said:


> So basically, if your next reservation is almost but not quite 2 hours in the future, it's very useful to wait a little longer, let the 2 hours elapse, get another reservation, then immediately use your reservation, and get another.



Agree completely.  I think the "sweet spot" will usually be two concurrent passes.  (Maybe three, on a quieter day, or if you're arriving late.)  Aim for late morning with the first, _make sure_ you book a second before tapping in, and then you're set to go with two for the rest of the day.


----------



## Disturbia

Jrb1979 said:


> I'm so surprised so many trying to use Genie+ like FP+ by trying to book their 3 most important rides each day. Booking rides at your 2nd park first makes no sense. Doing that you're most likely only getting 3 LL a day. Why pay $15 for only 3 rides.


If you’re only there for a limited time in the evening and Test Track and Soarin are must dos


----------



## Disturbia

Prices went up! $3 more for FOP.  Another poster posted:


*Jrb1979:*
MMRR up $2 today to $10
Avatar up $3 to $14
Frozen and Remy each up $2 to $11
7DMT up $2 to $12
SM up $2 to $9


----------



## Jrb1979

Disturbia said:


> If you’re only there for a limited time in the evening and Test Track and Soarin are must dos


From how long standby wait times have gone up by 11 am you aren't likely going to get much done in your first park. As time goes on Genie+ might not be worth it for park hoppers.


----------



## BridgetR3

I typically go busy weeks and I can easily see it costing us $100-150 just to ride ROR or Rat each time if we choose ILL$.  The prices will continue to go up until Disney finds their breaking point like they just did with the Christmas parties.

EDITED TO ADD - there are four people in my group.


----------



## Sjm9911

DisneyFive said:


> Here's how I do it.
> 
> 1) Find the attractions you want a G+ for
> 2) Click on "Book Experience" for that attraction
> 3) Hit the "x" in the top left corner. (This backs you back out, and will then hold the attraction at correct location on your phone screen)
> 4) Now you can simply keep clicking on the "Tip Board" tab on the top left of the screen.  This will refresh the G+ return time each time you click it.
> 5) When you find a return time you are satisfied with, then go through the process to fully book it by clicking "Book Experience" and follow the prompts
> 
> Dan


That dosent work on my phone, what phone do you have?


----------



## DisneyFive

Sjm9911 said:


> That dosent work on my phone, what phone do you have?


Apple iPhone SE (2020)


----------



## Sjm9911

DisneyFive said:


> Apple iPhone SE (2020)


Ok, i have an andriod.


----------



## Moneypenny

Wood Nymph said:


> Question - we are a party of three - 2 with AP's and 1 with park hopper tickets. Can one person purchase ILL$ for all three people?



I did online chat this morning because we have the same situation and our trip is in 2 weeks. I can't buy Genie+ now for AP  holders because we have to wait until day off.  I can add it now in MDE for the park-hopper holder, but only for the whole trip, which I don't want.  MDE also shows a message that I can only purchase Genie+ for members of my party with the same ticket type and other ticket holders would have to purchase their own through their own account.  I specifically asked the chat CM if I could buy Genie+ for all of us day of, and he said yes.  He really didn't seem to understand what I was asking, though,  and just kept mentioning the "great extras" they are giving to AP holders. So, I'm afraid I'm going to be sitting in our resort room at 6:30 am trying to figure out how to get everyone Genie+...


----------



## g-dad66

rmclain73 said:


> So I have now seen three videos on youtbue where people have used the free version of Genie and it seems like a complete disaster.  It does not do a good job at all with coming up with suggestions based on what you tell it you want to do .



Do you remember when FP+ first came out, and it made suggestions for what 3 FP+ you should pick?  It was equally irrelevant.


----------



## DisneyKidds

LSUfan4444 said:


> I am training my wife as we speak LOL


I think I gave my wife a headache trying to explain all this yesterday.  No matter, given that she doesn’t even know how to turn the entertainment system on to watch TV at home she was never a candidate to do Genie bookings.


----------



## DisneyKidds

Disturbia said:


> Thats true.  SDD was at 5:45 pm 40 mins into park opening.  HS was a skip park for us for years, it added so much stress last 2 trips post COVID that it’s only one day on our upcoming trip.


I’m so glad we don’t have to worry about SDD.  We rode it the day it opened.  We don’t think it’s all that great, definitely not worth the standby lines or gumming up the G+ works, if we even use G+.  Don’t get me wrong, it’s ok, kinda like SDMT is just ok and doesn’t warrant standby lines (or ILL$) for us.  SDD is something better than Barnstormer, but not nearly as good as the triple mountain whammy.  For those with grade school kids and tweens I can see why SDD is a must, it’s pretty cool for them.


----------



## Uncle Coaster

cm8 said:


> We’re here now and it’s crazy! I was able to secure a boarding pass at 7 am and we’re in group 75. Our ETA was 1:20… They have now changed our virtual time 3 times!! They keep pushing our groups out for people paying for LL access.



How do you know it is for people with LL access?  I’m not doubting you just curious. Thanks.

Edit: accidentally quoted a second post. Removed unnecessary quote box.


----------



## DisneyKidds

Disturbia said:


> Prices went up! $3 more for FOP.  Another poster posted:
> 
> 
> *Jrb1979:*
> MMRR up $2 today to $10
> Avatar up $3 to $14
> Frozen and Remy each up $2 to $11
> 7DMT up $2 to $12
> SM up $2 to $9


And away we go!


----------



## JakeAZ

Disturbia said:


> Prices went up! $3 more for FOP.  Another poster posted:
> 
> 
> *Jrb1979:*
> MMRR up $2 today to $10
> Avatar up $3 to $14
> Frozen and Remy each up $2 to $11
> 7DMT up $2 to $12
> SM up $2 to $9


Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the IA$ attractions announced with "dynamic pricing"?

Raising the prices on a Friday makes sense.

It's irritating, but it makes sense.


----------



## roxymama

We have this Monday as first day of tickets for our upcoming stay.  Our package (room & tix) has already been fully paid for.  Is the only way to get Genie+ without buying it each day is to call the disney phone line?
Has anyone had success with adding it on via the app or website on an already purchased package ahead of time.  Sorry if this has been answered, there's so many posts to wade through.


----------



## JakeAZ

roxymama said:


> We have this Monday as first day of tickets for our upcoming stay.  Our package (room & tix) has already been fully paid for.  Is the only way to get Genie+ without buying it each day is to call the disney phone line?
> Has anyone had success with adding it on via the app or website on an already purchased package ahead of time.  Sorry if this has been answered, there's so many posts to wade through.


You can add it ahead of time, but only for everyday.  If you want to pick and choose, you need to add it daily.  Just a total nuisance penalty for those of us who know Genie+ is not valuable in each park.


----------



## ZeeWP

Jrb1979 said:


> Disagree. It's going to be a massive success. It's not meant for AP holders. The people that only go once or twice every few years will most likely buy it. FP+ is dead and it's not coming back. People's best bet is learn to deal with the system in place.



Yup. It's definitely not for regular goers and not really for those that go once in their lifetime since they are less likely to know about it. It's for those of us (like me!) who know enough to do the research and plan but don't go often enough to avoid a ride. We want to go every 2-4 years, so missing SDD means we won't get to go on it till a few years later. my kids will be in a different life stage each visit. LOL


----------



## leeniewdw

Uncle Coaster said:


> How do you know it is for people with LL access?  I’m not doubting you just curious. Thanks.
> 
> Edit: accidentally quoted a second post. Removed unnecessary quote box.



There is no standby line for this ride, is that correct?  So the only 2 reasons to push their return time would be for the paying customers or ride break down?



roxymama said:


> We have this Monday as first day of tickets for our upcoming stay.  Our package (room & tix) has already been fully paid for.  Is the only way to get Genie+ without buying it each day is to call the disney phone line?
> Has anyone had success with adding it on via the app or website on an already purchased package ahead of time.  Sorry if this has been answered, there's so many posts to wade through.



I tried this today.  In the app, it seemed like I could, but since we have 3 room reservations and the other 2 are under my sons' names, I just went ahead and called and asked for a call back. I called at 10am and they returned my call at 11:20 and took care of adding it to all 6 tickets.

I wish I could remember exactly what I did in the app, but it ended up on a page where you could select hoppers (we have those so it was preselected) and then further down it was park hoppers plus G+.


----------



## roxymama

JakeAZ said:


> You can add it ahead of time, but only for everyday.  If you want to pick and choose, you need to add it daily.  Just a total nuisance penalty for those of us who know Genie+ is not valuable in each park.



We don't mind all 4 days of our trip since we think we will use it.  Just wasn't sure if I could access buying all 4 anywhere without a phone call.  This should be easier for sure!

[QUOTE="leeniewdw, post: 63475973, member: 663270"

I tried this today.  In the app, it seemed like I could, but since we have 3 room reservations and the other 2 are under my sons' names, I just went ahead and called and asked for a call back. I called at 10am and they returned my call at 11:20 and took care of adding it to all 6 tickets.

I wish I could remember exactly what I did in the app, but it ended up on a page where you could select hoppers (we have those so it was preselected) and then further down it was park hoppers plus G+.
[/QUOTE]

That may be our issue.  I have two rooms on my MDE which I don't mind paying for all of our Genie+, but maybe that's what is not allowing me to do anything on the app/website.


----------



## Sjm9911

When I selected mine, I could only do the people that had days I had tickets for. So, 2 of us are going down early and one coming down 5 days later, so I had to switch to a day where all 3 people had a park ticket. Then it let me get the genie + for everyone.  Otherwise I could only get the genie +  for the original 2 people and not the 3rd.  If that helps anyone.


----------



## HopperFan

JakeAZ said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the IA$ attractions announced with "dynamic pricing"?
> 
> Raising the prices on a Friday makes sense.
> 
> It's irritating, but it makes sense.



Yes ^

The sites posting are predicting weekend prices will always be higher just like their hotels.  Then it will dynamic price from there.

I think at least through the end of the year anyone who goes is a guinea pig.


----------



## MakiraMarlena

Yes they were announced with dynamic pricing, I thought not to exceed $15? Of course they can always change that, too. 

Waiting for Christmas prices


----------



## Jrb1979

MakiraMarlena said:


> Yes they were announced with dynamic pricing, I thought not to exceed $15? Of course they can always change that, too.
> 
> Waiting for Christmas prices


That's the introductory price. Just like Genie+


----------



## Disturbia

Genie+ took away Bobby Sue’s dessert and now it’s going for his snack as well.


----------



## persnickity

JakeAZ said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the IA$ attractions announced with "dynamic pricing"?
> 
> Raising the prices on a Friday makes sense.
> 
> It's irritating, but it makes sense.



Yup, I think tomorrow was even the example of a day with higher pricing - not too shocking that they consider Friday part of the weekend. 

I expect the "weekend" pricing to be in place all of Thanksgiving week (and that's probably if we're _lucky_).


----------



## Disturbia

Per allears:

“One of the most complicated aspects of Genie+ is the two-hour cool-down rule. When you book a Lightning Lane with Genie+ you can book a new one either when you use your existing Lightning Lane or *two hours after selection time.*

Theoretically, though, you could even stack more than two Lightning Lanes. If after your Slinky Dog Dash cool down at 11AM, you booked a 5PM Tower of Terror; you would then be able to book a third Lightning Lane after another two-hour cool down at 1PM.

If you made your 7PM Slinky Dog Dash selection after park open, your cool down begins at selection time. So, if you booked at 9:32AM, you’ll be able to book a new Lightning Lane at 11:32AM.”


----------



## Zippa D Doodah

rmclain73 said:


> So I have now seen three videos on youtbue where people have used the free version of Genie and it seems like a complete disaster.  It does not do a good job at all with coming up with suggestions based on what you tell it you want to do .


I recognized right away that the free Genie was hot garbage when it wanted to send me to Aladdin’s Flying Carpets at MK park opening. That moment alone told me all I needed to know about the free Genie and how worthless it is


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

MakiraMarlena said:


> WDW seems to be clarifying ILLS refund status - if the attraction breaks down  and never reopens that day, they are looking to provide automatic refunds, apparently to the payment method used for the reservation. If the purchaser is unable to wait for the attraction to reopen, they would need to go to Guest Services and request a refund.


So the guests who spent a large chunk of money to avoid a long line will now be forced to wait in a long line to get that money back, or not wait in that line and not get the money back.  Chapek, you evil genius.


----------



## recmouse

My head hurts!


----------



## jms25

cm8 said:


> We’re here now and it’s crazy! I was able to secure a boarding pass at 7 am and we’re in group 75. Our ETA was 1:20… They have now changed our virtual time 3 times!! They keep pushing our groups out for people paying for LL access. This is not okay. Our new boarding time is now 3:40 I didn’t plan to stay in Epcot all day because we’re doing the AH BB tonight and I need my rest before tonight!


Honestly, your anticipated boarding time does not sound that far off.  We were at EPCOT on Monday, before Genie + Go live.  Our Group was 77 and we got called at 2:24.  If they also had to accommodate all the people who paid to ride as well as boarding groups, 3:40 sounds about right.


----------



## cygnusx1jg

JakeAZ said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the IA$ attractions announced with "dynamic pricing"?
> 
> Raising the prices on a Friday makes sense.
> 
> It's irritating, but it makes sense.


It will be interesting to see how much, if any, those prices change from a Friday to a Saturday.


----------



## lovethattink

Welsh_Dragon said:


> We’re here now and it’s crazy! I was able to secure a boarding pass at 7 am and we’re in group 75. Our ETA was 1:20… They have now changed our virtual time 3 times!! They keep pushing our groups out for people paying for LL access. This is not okay. Our new boarding time is now 3:40 I didn’t plan to stay in Epcot all day because we’re doing the AH BB tonight and I need my rest before tonight!



It sounds as though the VQ is being treated as a standby line?


----------



## kc51570

lovethattink said:


> It sounds as though the VQ is being treated as a standby line?


The VQ felt like a standby line when we went in July and there was no Genie +. Our boarding group got pushed out a couple of hours (due to breakdowns) and then when we finally were called we still had to wait another hour. Was not at all impressed with that system then and now it sounds like it will be worse if you don’t pay.


----------



## scrappinginontario

lovethattink said:


> It sounds as though the VQ is being treated as a standby line?





kc51570 said:


> The VQ felt like a standby line when we went in July and there was no Genie +. Our boarding group got pushed out a couple of hours (due to breakdowns) and then when we finally were called we still had to wait another hour. Was not at all impressed with that system then and now it sounds like it will be worse if you don’t pay.


Just a note of clarification.

@lovethattink was discussing Ratatouille which only opened 3 weeks ago.

The VQ you are discussing @kct1570 is Rise of the Resistance.

Just wanted to clarify for those trying to put the pieces together.


----------



## wisblue

lovethattink said:


> It sounds as though the VQ is being treated as a standby line?



That is what it’s like.

The idea is that instead of making you wait in line for 90 minutes or more, they call you to join the line with a wait that will likely be shorter than that.

The few times  that we have done ROTR (both before and after the pandemic) our waits after we joined the VQ ranged from quite short (when we had an early BG) to over an hour when there were several breakdown delays, including one while we were in line. That day the original ETA for our BG was about 11 AM and it ended up being closer to 1 PM.

Another time there were so many delays on a very hot day that we went back to our room at the Boardwalk and walked back when the BGs started advancing again.

When you get a BG with an ETA you shouldn‘t think of it like a FP or LL reservation. The estimated arrival time might change and there might still be a significant wait after your group is called. 

When there is  LL involved too like there is now with Ratatouille, if there are delays you have to expect that the LL will get priority.


----------



## boop0524

We have a trip in a couple weeks and I need some advice... We’re a party of 8, some adults some kids. Our Epcot day is now a 6 crowd level on TP. And while I wasn’t planning on G+ for this park, I don’t want everyone to stand in lines all day either. They don’t have hoppers so this is the only park of the day.

MK and HS seem to make sense for our party size and crowd levels, but it’s so hard to determine in a park like Epcot (or even AK).


----------



## Disturbia

boop0524 said:


> We have a trip in a couple weeks and I need some advice... We’re a party of 8, some adults some kids. Our Epcot day is now a 6 crowd level on TP. And while I wasn’t planning on G+ for this park, I don’t want everyone to stand in lines all day either. They don’t have hoppers so this is the only park of the day.
> 
> MK and HS seem to make sense for our party size and crowd levels, but it’s so hard to determine in a park like Epcot (or even AK).


If you are arriving before 1 pm, you can try getting a BG for Remy.  Standby in the evening isn't all that bad and you could enjoy food and wine and fireworks at 9:45?.  We are doing Space220 on our check in date.  We won't be in the park until after 5:30 pm.  We might do Genie+, but for sure we will book a LLIA$ at 7 am (definitely for Remy-probably will sell out); for Frozen we might wait in line (will try to buy in park).


----------



## Grasshopper2016

boop0524 said:


> We have a trip in a couple weeks and I need some advice... We’re a party of 8, some adults some kids. Our Epcot day is now a 6 crowd level on TP. And while I wasn’t planning on G+ for this park, I don’t want everyone to stand in lines all day either. They don’t have hoppers so this is the only park of the day.
> 
> MK and HS seem to make sense for our party size and crowd levels, but it’s so hard to determine in a park like Epcot (or even AK).


We are going in December.  I have the same thoughts as you.  But I just bit the bullet and got Genie+ for my whole trip. We’ve sunk so much money into this trip that, at this point, what’s another few hundred?  Especially if it has the potential to cut down our waits and make our trip better.  Congratulations, Disney.  I’m exactly the sucker you were looking for.


----------



## g-dad66

boop0524 said:


> We have a trip in a couple weeks and I need some advice... We’re a party of 8, some adults some kids. Our Epcot day is now a 6 crowd level on TP. And while I wasn’t planning on G+ for this park, I don’t want everyone to stand in lines all day either. They don’t have hoppers so this is the only park of the day.
> 
> MK and HS seem to make sense for our party size and crowd levels, but it’s so hard to determine in a park like Epcot (or even AK).



Since the inception of Genie+, I am seeing only 3 Epcot attractions with waits consistenly longer than 20 minutes: Test Track, Frozen Ever After, and Remy boarding groups.

You could have reasonable waits for Test Track and Frozen by doing one at rope drop and the other just before park closing. Could also do Single Rider for Test Track if that would work for your group.

So that leaves only Remy, and the wait for it could be avoided if you pay ILL$.

I think those are the factors to weigh when you are deciding about G+. It isn't going to save much any significant amount of wait time for any of the other Epcot atttractions. And it also isn't relevant to Remy or Frozen.  It could definitely save you some wait time for Test Track.


----------



## ande2428

michaeldorn1 said:


> Thanks for the link, but I didn't see a mention of gift cards as payment, unless I missed it.  Truth be told, I didn't actually read Every word though.  LOL


Ha Ha!  Then I’ll use a picture


----------



## Katie Dawn

js said:


> Hi. I don't watch videos and reports from bloggers but I really would like to start especially with the G+ and IA$$.
> Can you/anyone here recommend who I watch and how do I watch them? Youtube?
> 
> Thanks!




Someone else may have answered this, but I think the very best channel for solid advice and instructions on how to do things like this is AllEars. They put up different types of videos, but Molly will be lots and lots of "how to use Genie+" videos over the coming weeks, will show screenshots, will explain the steps each video since she has done this in the past with Boarding Groups, FP+, etc. The channel that also runs this website, The Dis, will probably have some videos like this but AllEars will have more.


----------



## ThistleMae

wisblue said:


> As a counterpoint, I could say allowing hoppers to have earlier access to afternoon and LL reservations mitigates what would otherwise be a big disadvantage.
> 
> The Genie+LL system is much like paper FP, and that system did not work well for people who like to take a midday break then hop to a second park.
> 
> If your plan was to leave the first park early in the afternoon and then go to a second park around 5, any FP at the first park with a return time in early afternoon was worthless, and FPs at the second park were probably gone by the time you would get there.
> 
> Making LL reservations at the second park for use after expected arrival helps the park hopper get the same value out of the G+ purchase as people who stay in one park all day.


So, because some or many of the rides you book in the a.m. push you out to afternoon, can I just book for my second park in the morning with my PH at 7 a.m. trying for later times?


----------



## ElizaDoesDisney

Operator Error - Ignore if you saw my original message.

Woke up at 6:55 to try to start stacking LL reservations or MK this afternoon.   Starting with a leisurely morning at AK before hopping.  Panicked a little because tip board was showing next available time for all parks which isn't what I expected.  But when you click into the attraction it changes to the next available time after 2PM.  

So - don't be me and click around before you start rethinking your whole plan and end up wide awake with no chance of dropping back to sleep for an extra hour or two.


----------



## wisblue

ThistleMae said:


> So, because some or many of the rides you book in the a.m. push you out to afternoon, can I just book for my second park in the morning with my PH at 7 a.m. trying for later times?



That would be the question.

After you purchase G+, will the system show you LL return times after 2 PM for your second park?

If so, you could book one and then book a second one two hours after your first park opens and a third one two hours after you pick the second one. Then you would have 3 at your second park and would go standby only, or use one or two paid IALL at your first park.

Maybe someone will try this.


----------



## Jrb1979

wisblue said:


> That would be the question.
> 
> After you purchase G+, will the system show you LL return times after 2 PM for your second park?
> 
> If so, you could book one and then book a second one two hours after your first park opens and a third one two hours after you pick the second one. Then you would have 3 at your second park and would go standby only, or use one or two paid IALL at your first park.
> 
> Maybe someone will try this.


See the post above. It's looking like it's not going to work that way now.


----------



## ElizaDoesDisney

Jrb1979 said:


> See the post above. It's looking like it's not going to work that way now.



Sorry to have mislead - it is still working the way described.  I  WAS able to make a 2-3PM reservation for Jungle Cruise just now.  On the Tip Board it was showing next available time - it isn't until you click INTO the attraction that it switches to 2PM (assuming it hasn't already gone out past that).


----------



## wisblue

ElizaDoesDisney said:


> So - set my alarm for 6:55AM to start stacking some MK LL for 2PM+ and .... it's no longer working that way.   At least not for me.  I'm seeing the next available return times for all parks.  The park I have reservations for - AK.  And the ones I don't.  Throws a bit of a wrench in plan for the day, but whatever - I'm here alone and I wanted to figure out how this works.  Was planning on going back to sleep and doing a leisurely AK day before hopping to MK this afternoon.  May rethink that plan because I'm solidly awake now.



Did you already purchase Genie+.?

The next question would  be whether the ability to get later LL in the second park kicks in once you actually tap in to the first park.

If you want to take one for the team in the interest of research, maybe you could get a G+LL for something at AK for a time close to when you plan to be there. Use that LL even if the standby line is short and after that see what times you are offered at MK.

ETA- I see your follow up post. When I look at the Tip Board now the available time for JC is 10:40 AM so you pretty clearly are being offered something based on your hopper ticket, Did you identify MK as your second park in Genie? Maybe it offers hoppers those later options in all 3 of the other parks.

This and the “stacking” feature offer some strategy options that I didn’t anticipate and that could make Genie+ more attractive.


----------



## ElizaDoesDisney

I can also confirm that it is showing that I will be eligible to make my next LL reservation at 11AM - that's what is showing for both AK (opens at 8) and MK (opens at 9) attractions.  So it seems to be 2 hours after park opening of the park in which you made your first LL reservation and not 2 hours after park opening for the park in which you have a park reservation.

Wondering if that will hold true for EPCOT with it's late opening too --- would it be noon before you were eligible for a second LL reservation if you used your first LL to make a 2PM Test Track reservation?  I don't intend to test that particular scenario, at least not this trip.


----------



## tony67

Grasshopper2016 said:


> We’ve sunk so much money into this trip that, at this point, what’s another few hundred? Especially if it has the potential to cut down our waits and make our trip better. Congratulations, Disney. I’m exactly the sucker you were looking for.


yes - but you are not happy about it - and that will probably change your view of Disney and how you think about it in the future - and that is what they dont get.  what will this few hundred dollars now cost them in the future?


----------



## OKWFan88

Sorry for this basic question... We arrive tomorrow and don't have a package. I've been trying to add the Genie to our reservation (we have several split stays) and it doesn't give me an option. Is adding Genie (15.00 per day per ticket) something I have to call to get added?


----------



## persnickity

OKWFan88 said:


> Sorry for this basic question... We arrive tomorrow and don't have a package. I've been trying to add the Genie to our reservation (we have several split stays) and it doesn't give me an option. Is adding Genie (15.00 per day per ticket) something I have to call to get added?



You can add it to all days on your tickets by changing your ticket type in MDE - or purchase daily if you don't want all days.


----------



## CarolynFH

OKWFan88 said:


> Sorry for this basic question... We arrive tomorrow and don't have a package. I've been trying to add the Genie to our reservation (we have several split stays) and it doesn't give me an option. Is adding Genie (15.00 per day per ticket) something I have to call to get added?


No need to call, you can add it day by day in the MDE app. If you want it tomorrow, you can add it any time after midnight tonight. I think most people add it around 6:55 AM, just before they book Genie+ LL and/or ILL$ at 7:00. And remember, Genie is just part of MDE (if you don’t see it, update the MDE app), Genie+ is the $15 add on, and ILL$ are separate.


----------



## OKWFan88

CarolynFH said:


> No need to call, you can add it day by day in the MDE app. If you want it tomorrow, you can add it any time after midnight tonight. I think most people add it around 6:55 AM, just before they book Genie+ LL and/or ILL$ at 7:00. And remember, Genie is just part of MDE (if you don’t see it, update the MDE app), Genie+ is the $15 add on, and ILL$ are separate.


Thank you. I have an Annual Pass so can Genie be added to an AP?


----------



## Turksmom

OKWFan88 said:


> Thank you. I have an Annual Pass so can Genie be added to an AP?


Only per day on the day you want to use it, starting at 12 am


----------



## cakebaker

wisblue said:


> That would be the question.
> 
> After you purchase G+, will the system show you LL return times after 2 PM for your second park?
> 
> If so, you could book one and then book a second one two hours after your first park opens and a third one two hours after you pick the second one. Then you would have 3 at your second park and would go standby only, or use one or two paid IALL at your first park.
> 
> Maybe someone will try this.



I'd love for it to work this way. We always did standby in the mornings and scheduled FP+ for rides in the afternoon. If Genie + works as you describe, we could still continue to tour the parks just as we always have. I never liked the idea of grabbing FP's first thing in the morning just to get more- much preferred booking headliners in our evening park when waits are long for just about everything. To be able to book 3 LL's in an evening park would be awesome.


----------



## Donna M

tony67 said:


> yes - but you are not happy about it - and that will probably change your view of Disney and how you think about it in the future - and that is what they dont get.  what will this few hundred dollars now cost them in the future?


Totally agree, they must have someone thinking ahead, but that common sense must have been overruled.  Disney makes a couple hundred now but loses that person´s future hotel/meal/merch when they push back their trips or head to Universal. Or sell their DVC like we are thinking.   And all that adds up to thousands!   When is upper management going to be replaced?


----------



## boop0524

Grasshopper2016 said:


> We are going in December.  I have the same thoughts as you.  But I just bit the bullet and got Genie+ for my whole trip. We’ve sunk so much money into this trip that, at this point, what’s another few hundred?  Especially if it has the potential to cut down our waits and make our trip better.  Congratulations, Disney.  I’m exactly the sucker you were looking for.


yeah probably what we’ll do….feeling like a sucker too!!


----------



## OKWFan88

I have two more trips planned to Disney in the next few months... so the trip starting tomorrow will be the trial run to see if paying for Genie + will be worth it for the other trips. I do feel like a sucker for purchasing the Genie+ but then I remind myself I'll be at Disney TOMORROW!!!!


----------



## MamaJJ2018

I apologize in advance because I am sure it’s been answered, but this thread is a lot to keep up with! We are staying at an Epcot resort and have no Epcot park reservations. We love to do one park in the morning and end up in Epcot for the late afternoon/evening after a resort break. Am I able to purchase an Individual LL pass for Remy at 7am?


----------



## iona

MamaJJ2018 said:


> I apologize in advance because I am sure it’s been answered, but this thread is a lot to keep up with! We are staying at an Epcot resort and have no Epcot park reservations. We love to do one park in the morning and end up in Epcot for the late afternoon/evening after a resort break. Am I able to purchase an Individual LL pass for Remy at 7am?



Yes


----------



## Disturbia

MamaJJ2018 said:


> I apologize in advance because I am sure it’s been answered, but this thread is a lot to keep up with! We are staying at an Epcot resort and have no Epcot park reservations. We love to do one park in the morning and end up in Epcot for the late afternoon/evening after a resort break. Am I able to purchase an Individual LL pass for Remy at 7am?


Yes for your question as PP replied.

Keep in mind can’t get Remy’s Boarding group without a park pass reservation Unless you are park hopping and scan in to your first park (some people have had the rare occasion success without Epcot park reservations when BGs were still available after 2 pm)


----------



## leeniewdw

ElizaDoesDisney said:


> Sorry to have mislead - it is still working the way described.  I  WAS able to make a 2-3PM reservation for Jungle Cruise just now.  On the Tip Board it was showing next available time - it isn't until you click INTO the attraction that it switches to 2PM (assuming it hasn't already gone out past that).





wisblue said:


> ETA- I see your follow up post. When I look at the Tip Board now the available time for JC is 10:40 AM so you pretty clearly are being offered something based on your hopper ticket, Did you identify MK as your second park in Genie? Maybe it offers hoppers those later options in all 3 of the other parks.



That's my question too.  Is there something you have to do in advance of 7am to indicate that in addition to your park reservation (HS) that your 2nd park is  MK?   Or is having a park hopper enough?


----------



## luv2cheer92

cakebaker said:


> I'd love for it to work this way. We always did standby in the mornings and scheduled FP+ for rides in the afternoon. If Genie + works as you describe, we could still continue to tour the parks just as we always have. I never liked the idea of grabbing FP's first thing in the morning just to get more- much preferred booking headliners in our evening park when waits are long for just about everything. To be able to book 3 LL's in an evening park would be awesome.


What the quoted poster described is exactly how it works. And what has been described by many people in this thread and elsewhere that have tried it.


----------



## JakeAZ

persnickity said:


> Yup, I think tomorrow was even the example of a day with higher pricing - not too shocking that they consider Friday part of the weekend.
> 
> I expect the "weekend" pricing to be in place all of Thanksgiving week (and that's probably if we're _lucky_).


That's our week too!

Disney was kind enough to send me a reminder to have my HELOC in place before we arrive.


----------



## imbelle

tony67 said:


> yes - but you are not happy about it - and that will probably change your view of Disney and how you think about it in the future - and that is what they dont get.  what will this few hundred dollars now cost them in the future?


 I have no intention of paying extra to ride attractions that I have ridden hundreds of times before and which should already be included in my park entry fee.  I have a WDW trip coming up next week and my annual pass expires a few days after my trip.  Depending on how this trip goes with not utilizing Genie+/IA$, I may not be renewing my annual pass for the first time in at least twenty plus years.


----------



## ShayBells

Question I am confused on: If you are park hopping do you have to wait until after 2 and/or after you get to the park to make any LLs (not LL$)? thanks!


----------



## Disturbia

ShayBells said:


> Question I am confused on: If you are park hopping do you have to wait until after 2 and/or after you get to the park to make any LLs (not LL$)? thanks!


No.  You can get them at 7 am if available with Genie+.  We are seeing only a few rides like that that will have availability in afternoon in the am

Unless you are rope dropping, I would get first Ll with Genie+ at 7am for 9-8 am.  Then keep rolling it until 11 am.  Now I think here if you book Test Track at 5-6pm; youhave to wait from time your last got your pass, so in this case at 11 am you book 5-6pm BUT the cool off for getting another Genie+ pass will be 11 am-1 pm (can’t book any Genie+); but at 1 pm you can book Soarin 6-7pm


----------



## BillFromCT

ShayBells said:


> Question I am confused on: If you are park hopping do you have to wait until after 2 and/or after you get to the park to make any LLs (not LL$)? thanks!


From what I’ve seen G+ will only let you make LL times after 2:00pm if it’s not in your reserved park.  That’s where a lot of the stacking LLs is coming from.  Your reservation is at AK.  At 7:00am you can make a LL reservation at HS for Slinky after 2:00.  Then 2 hours after park open, say 11:00am, you can make another HS LL reservation.  Then the same at 1:00pm.  You can leave AK and hop to HS at 2:00pm, having never used an AK LL, and you now have 3 stacked ones to use at HS.


----------



## ShayBells

That’s great. I was worried I would have to be physically entered into the park to make one. We take a break at the hotel each day so if I can check times then and snag a time that’s good for me (after 2) at the park I am hopping too. Well that works good for me. Thanks everyone!


----------



## Disturbia

BillFromCT said:


> From what I’ve seen G+ will only let you make LL times after 2:00pm if it’s not in your reserved park.  That’s where a lot of the stacking LLs is coming from.  Your reservation is at AK.  At 7:00am you can make a LL reservation at HS for Slinky after 2:00.  Then 2 hours after park open, say 11:00am, you can make another HS LL reservation.  Then the same at 1:00pm.  You can leave AK and hop to HS at 2:00pm, having never used an AK LL, and you now have 3 stacked ones to use at HS.


Not true.  but MK just has a lot of ride availability; but we saw jungle cruise go into afternoon and people were able to stack


----------



## Disturbia

leeniewdw said:


> That's my question too.  Is there something you have to do in advance of 7am to indicate that in addition to your park reservation (HS) that your 2nd park is  MK?   Or is having a park hopper enough?


I believe Genie will ask if you have other plans and time frame

https://allears.net/2021/10/21/what-is-park-hopping-like-now-with-disney-genie/


----------



## Disturbia




----------



## Disturbia

Per allears:


While Genie is smart with park hopping in some ways, it can also experience some issues. For example, during one trip, Genie kept telling one of our reporters that they needed to go to Disney’s Hollywood Studios from EPCOT, even though the reporter had already scanned into Hollywood Studios and was there. For some reason, *the free planning service never seemed to recognize that the hopping had taken place*.

But, that never had a practical effect on their ability to book Genie+ selections in the park they had hopped to, so don’t let those technical issues concern you unless they affect your ability to make selections.


----------



## Disturbia

ShayBells said:


> Question I am confused on: If you are park hopping do you have to wait until after 2 and/or after you get to the park to make any LLs (not LL$)? thanks!


Per allears
*You Can Book a Genie+ Lightning Lane for the Park You’re Hopping to Before You’ve Hopped*
Say you’re in Magic Kingdom at 1:30PM, and you’re eating a churro on Main Street, U.S.A., getting ready to hop to Animal Kingdom at 2PM. From the comfort of your bench, churro in hand, *you can make a Genie+ Lightning Lane booking for a ride in Animal Kingdom (for any time after 2PM).* Or, you can make it on the bus while you’re on the way there — you get the idea.


----------



## cakebaker

luv2cheer92 said:


> What the quoted poster described is exactly how it works. And what has been described by many people in this thread and elsewhere that have tried it.



That's really good to know. We always take an afternoon break, usually leave our morning park by noon so we miss the really packed time of day. We've just never booked morning FP's and I was dreading going back to the old days of walking into an afternoon park with no headliners available. We aren't about how many rides we get in, just that we get the ones we really want and that we don't stand in line for any great length of time.


When I team this with the ability to get in the individual attractions at least at the MK done with evening hours, I really am beginning to like the new system. I absolutely hate the pay per ride and just won't do it, but that is really only a issue for a very few rides.


----------



## Disturbia

passes can overlap


----------



## ElizaDoesDisney

A couple of things I learned/confirmed today:

You can indeed book LL in your hopper park beginning at 7AM.  Tipboard will still show next available time, but when you click the LL button to reserve - it will show 2-3PM (assuming availability hasn't already moved beyond that point).
The 120 minute window from park opening is from the park where you made your first LL reservation.  Not the park you have your park reservation at.
You can stack - I made three LL reservations at MK (at 7AM, 11AM, and 1PM) before entering the park.
Time can overlap - I had overlapping times a bunch.  The system doesn't seem to care - so make sure you are paying attention to ADR time and other reservation times so you don't put yourself in a bad place.
You can cancel a LL reservation both before the window opens and during the return time window.  As long as you cancel, it will let you book again.   (I've heard rumors that there is a limit to this - like if you reserve Dumbo twice and cancel twice, you can't reserve a third time, but I did not test that).
Splash Mountain went down just as I arrived at the very beginning of my LL window.  About ten minutes later my LL reservation was automatically converted into a pass that was good for the rest of the day at any LL attraction except the ILL$ and Peter Pan. 
Once this happened, I was able to make another LL reservation for Splash later in the night - so the converted LL reservation did not count as my allotment for Splash.

Oh and the way they handle the LL vs. standby appears to change based on crowds/conditions.  I rode Splash twice post-fireworks: once using my any attraction pass and once using the new LL reservation I made.  The first time through the line they were merging the line at the second tapstile and appeared to be taking relatively equal numbers of LL and standby passengers in turn.   The second time through they kept the lines totally separate and filled 2 of the 3 boats with standby passengers and the final boat with LL passengers each load.  The LL definitely felt significantly longer to get through the second time even the though the line seemed about the same length, but that is anecdotal, I didn't time it or anything.   I just thought it was interesting.

That's about all I've got.  I feel like I got my money's worth for the LL today, but not sure how much use it will have for me in the future.  I may or may not end up using it for a DHS evening trip later this week - it just depends how things go.  I think the value is going to be very dependent on your touring style and whether or not you can find a way to make Genie+ work for that style.


----------



## DavidNYC

ElizaDoesDisney said:


> A couple of things I learned/confirmed today:
> 
> Splash Mountain went down just as I arrived at the very beginning of my LL window.  About ten minutes later my LL reservation was automatically converted into a pass that was good for the rest of the day at any LL attraction except the ILL$ and Peter Pan.



I had asked about this earlier but hadn't gotten a response.   Curious to see what the exclusions are in each park for these passes you get if a ride goes down.   Interesting that they excluded PP as I don't think that was ever excluded before on those passes in MK during the FP+ days (7DMT and character meets were the only exclusions).  I'm also curious as to whether guest services LL have the same exclusions (we have three FP+ set up for us from our last trip due to a major issue we had but didn't get back before the closure - curious to see what they do for those when we do go back).


----------



## ElizaDoesDisney

DavidNYC said:


> I had asked about this earlier but hadn't gotten a response.   Curious to see what the exclusions are in each park for these passes you get if a ride goes down.   Interesting that they excluded PP as I don't think that was ever excluded before on those passes in MK during the FP+ days (7DMT and character meets were the only exclusions).  I'm also curious as to whether guest services LL have the same exclusions (we have three FP+ set up for us from our last trip due to a major issue we had but didn't get back before the closure - curious to see what they do for those when we do go back).



Now that you mention it the character meets were also showing as unavailable with the recovery pass - I didn't pay much attention since they aren't open now anyway, but the probably are going to be excluded going forward.


----------



## AliMac29

We’re arriving in 3 weeks and part of my group is staying offsite. Am I (staying on property) able to make IAS reservation for ROTR at 7 am for my entire party? Or just those of us staying on property? Reading reports of IAS reservations being gone by park opening now and trying to figure out how to get us all on!


----------



## GBRforWDW

AliMac29 said:


> We’re arriving in 3 weeks and part of my group is staying offsite. Am I (staying on property) able to make IAS reservation for ROTR at 7 am for my entire party? Or just those of us staying on property? Reading reports of IAS reservations being gone by park opening now and trying to figure out how to get us all on!



Saw this on the here now thread from yesterday:



aeasterling said:


> Today's reservation was Hollywood studios, with a dinner ADR at EPCOT. At 7am, I went on MDE to get our ILL for ROTR, but found I couldn't select our son because he's not on our room reservation so not eligible for the early ILL res.


----------



## kingslyyy

ElizaDoesDisney said:


> A couple of things I learned/confirmed today:
> 
> You can indeed book LL in your hopper park beginning at 7AM.  Tipboard will still show next available time, but when you click the LL button to reserve - it will show 2-3PM (assuming availability hasn't already moved beyond that point).
> The 120 minute window from park opening is from the park where you made your first LL reservation.  Not the park you have your park reservation at.
> You can stack - I made three LL reservations at MK (at 7AM, 11AM, and 1PM) before entering the park.
> Time can overlap - I had overlapping times a bunch.  The system doesn't seem to care - so make sure you are paying attention to ADR time and other reservation times so you don't put yourself in a bad place.
> You can cancel a LL reservation both before the window opens and during the return time window.  As long as you cancel, it will let you book again.   (I've heard rumors that there is a limit to this - like if you reserve Dumbo twice and cancel twice, you can't reserve a third time, but I did not test that).
> Splash Mountain went down just as I arrived at the very beginning of my LL window.  About ten minutes later my LL reservation was automatically converted into a pass that was good for the rest of the day at any LL attraction except the ILL$ and Peter Pan.
> Once this happened, I was able to make another LL reservation for Splash later in the night - so the converted LL reservation did not count as my allotment for Splash.
> 
> Oh and the way they handle the LL vs. standby appears to change based on crowds/conditions.  I rode Splash twice post-fireworks: once using my any attraction pass and once using the new LL reservation I made.  The first time through the line they were merging the line at the second tapstile and appeared to be taking relatively equal numbers of LL and standby passengers in turn.   The second time through they kept the lines totally separate and filled 2 of the 3 boats with standby passengers and the final boat with LL passengers each load.  The LL definitely felt significantly longer to get through the second time even the though the line seemed about the same length, but that is anecdotal, I didn't time it or anything.   I just thought it was interesting.
> 
> That's about all I've got.  I feel like I got my money's worth for the LL today, but not sure how much use it will have for me in the future.  I may or may not end up using it for a DHS evening trip later this week - it just depends how things go.  I think the value is going to be very dependent on your touring style and whether or not you can find a way to make Genie+ work for that style.


We had our first experience yesterday with Genie+. At 7 am exactly the first available ROR wasn’t till 12:45. This threw me off and the first LL for a ride we wanted was 12:15 for smugglers run. It all worked out, as we rope dropped SDD, then waited in line for TSM. Just disappointing that you can’t have more options and the ability to move LL times.


Overall LL wait times were fast, less than 10 minutes. But with the lack of selections makes it very expensive, if you buy 2 premier LL's.


----------



## ElizaDoesDisney

One more thing I remembered that I wanted to mention re: G+ LL reservations.  The refreshing thing worked to get times to move around.  But also - DOUBLE CHECK the reservation time on the confirmation screen.  It was often different than the time displayed on the TipBoard.  Usually this was just 5-10 minutes - TipBoard shows 4:00-5:00 for it's a small world, but when you click through the the confirmation page the actual time is 4:10-5:10.  It does not highlight this so it would be easy to miss it and sometimes it can be much different.  When I went to make Big Thunder for after my dinner the earliest time I could find (even after refreshing) was 6:45-7:45.  When I clicked through to confirmation it was a 6:05-7:05.   Pretty big difference - it worked better for my schedule, but easily could have been the opposite.


----------



## Grasshopper2016

kingslyyy said:


> At 7 am exactly the first available ROR wasn’t till 12:45. This threw me off and the first LL for a ride we wanted was 12:15 for smugglers run.


Yikes!  This makes Genie+ much less valuable.  I could see only getting 3 LL for decent rides on a crowded day—and having no choice but to stretch them out across many hours.


----------



## GreatGoofini

Can anyone confirm if you should be able to see the current LL info on the tip board if you don’t have a ticket?  I get an error on the tip board and if I check an individual ride and click the LL section I get an error too. Are only ticket holders able to see the live return time options?


----------



## persnickity

Grasshopper2016 said:


> Yikes!  This makes Genie+ much less valuable.  I could see only getting 3 LL for decent rides on a crowded day—and having no choice but to stretch them out across many hours.



Right, I'm really re-thinking HS as a park that requires G+. I think you can do as well there with early entry and a solid plan. It might improve your odds for re-rides (one G+, one standby), if that's something you really want to do.  Or if you're park hopping.


----------



## jecarnl

Disturbia said:


> Not unless you’ve experienced the summer crowds.  You would see this as an improvement.



I've experienced Disney World in every season so I doubt its an improvement.


----------



## luv2cheer92

AliMac29 said:


> We’re arriving in 3 weeks and part of my group is staying offsite. Am I (staying on property) able to make IAS reservation for ROTR at 7 am for my entire party? Or just those of us staying on property? Reading reports of IAS reservations being gone by park opening now and trying to figure out how to get us all on!


It is seeming like this "loophole" that existed for FP+ does not work anymore.


----------



## Sunelis

GreatGoofini said:


> Can anyone confirm if you should be able to see the current LL info on the tip board if you don’t have a ticket?  I get an error on the tip board and if I check an individual ride and click the LL section I get an error too. Are only ticket holders able to see the live return time options?


I'm in Canada and the Tip Board always gives me an error. The only way I can get it to work is using a VPN on my phone to fake a US location... Then the Tip Board works flawlessly even if I don't have a ticket.


----------



## roctavia

It sounds like G+ can be more advantageous for people park hopping, if it allows people to make afternoon LL reservations in the morning... even if the LL time isn't past 2 yet for others.... We usually don't do hoppers since our kids are still younger and we can find enough to do at 1 park without extra transportation time....  I'm glad our trip isn't until May so we can get all of the scoop from the rest of you!  I'm still thinking MK is the park Genie+ would be most helpful, otherwise rope dropping with the extra onsite half hour and maybe 1-2 ILL$ to really get what we want... I'd probably be willing to pay for ROTR, but not much else.


----------



## aeasterling

AliMac29 said:


> We’re arriving in 3 weeks and part of my group is staying offsite. Am I (staying on property) able to make IAS reservation for ROTR at 7 am for my entire party? Or just those of us staying on property? Reading reports of IAS reservations being gone by park opening now and trying to figure out how to get us all on!


No, this will not work.  We had this happen to us yesterday.  Our son is only here for part of this trip, so he has separate ticket reservations.  We are staying at the Swan, but only my husband, daughter and my reservation was linked to the room.  When I went to create the LL at 7am, I could not select my son because it didn't recognize him as a resort guest.


----------



## GreatGoofini

Sunelis said:


> I'm in Canada and the Tip Board always gives me an error. The only way I can get it to work is using a VPN on my phone to fake a US location... Then the Tip Board works flawlessly even if I don't have a ticket.



Ok, I’m in Canada too so that must be it. Thanks.


----------



## Gentry2004

GreatGoofini said:


> Ok, I’m in Canada too so that must be it. Thanks.



Must be. I’m in Virginia and can see the tip board with no tickets and no trip planned.


----------



## wisblue

ElizaDoesDisney said:


> One more thing I remembered that I wanted to mention re: G+ LL reservations.  The refreshing thing worked to get times to move around.  But also - DOUBLE CHECK the reservation time on the confirmation screen.  It was often different than the time displayed on the TipBoard.  Usually this was just 5-10 minutes - TipBoard shows 4:00-5:00 for it's a small world, but when you click through the the confirmation page the actual time is 4:10-5:10.  It does not highlight this so it would be easy to miss it and sometimes it can be much different.  When I went to make Big Thunder for after my dinner the earliest time I could find (even after refreshing) was 6:45-7:45.  When I clicked through to confirmation it was a 6:05-7:05.   Pretty big difference - it worked better for my schedule, but easily could have been the opposite.



Adding to this thought, the difference between the return time shown on the Tip Board and the time shown on the confirm screen can be significant.

Occasionally a time will show on the Tip Board that is presumably there because someone cancelled. If you click on that and someone else beats you to it, your return time could be hours later.

This is the same warning for anyone who tries to get an earlier time than the one they have reserved by cancelling and rebooking. You might end up with a time even later than one you have or, for some things, be shut out completely.


----------



## 20KLeagues

Just returned from universal.   Express pass is such a superior product it’s not even debatable.  We like Disney more than universal but not having to get up at 7am, be on my phone every 2 hours, worry about rides selling out, worry about when I show up to the parks just shows how bad Disney botched this pay for service.

It’a so annoying, confusing, time consuming, stressful and that happens every day that your are there that it ruins the experience

Express pass shows how bad Disney screwed this whole thing up.


----------



## wisblue

This morning I checked in to the app at 7AM ET to see how fast the LL were going for Slinky, ROTR, and Smugglers Run.

I hit the Tip Board tab to refresh at the stroke of 7 and it took the app about 15 seconds to repopulate. By then the Slinky return time was 11:40 AM. Within 5 minutes the Slinky return time was 5:15 PM, ROTR was 2:40, and MFSR was getting into early afternoon.

Because this general pattern seems to be a daily occurrence, anyone who wants to do all 3 of these attractions without a long line or participating in the Early Entry crush to them (which isn’t even an option for offsite guests) should plan to do them in the late afternoon or early evening.

My approach might be:

At 7 AM try to get Slinky at the earliest time I can get. If that time is at the time we might want to be taking a midday break, change it to a later time. The return time seems to settle in at about 5 PM and hold there until the park opens. By mid morning they are gone, so if you don’t make Slinky your first LL pick, you probably won’t get one.

7:02- purchase an IALL for ROTR at the available time that best suits our schedule. I prefer earlier (like 10-11 AM) to provide more flexibility if the ride breaks down, which seems to be as much the rule as the exception. Those earlier times go fast.

11 AM- if we haven’t been able to ride MFSR standby, get a LL for it.  By then the return time will probably be in the early evening.

To avoid the EE crushes to GE and Slinky, we can go to RNRC and TOT first and ride TSMM and Star Tours standby with reasonable standby waits. Then we go from there.

Getting a Slinky return time around 5 or later, and a MFSR return time somewhere around that could be a good setup for a stack for someone who won’t be arriving to the park until afternoon, either because of hopping or on a travel/arrival day. Get the third LL two hours after the MFSR one and you’ll have a stack to use as long as LL are available.

Like everything else, once crowds get large and LL for things like RNRC and TOT start selling out, this stack might not yield much, but at least you’ll have 3 good attractions, similar to the FP+ days. And, if you’re willing to pay for IALL you could add two more.


----------



## wings91

so no worth it


----------



## wisblue

20KLeagues said:


> Just returned from universal.   Express pass is such a superior product it’s not even debatable.  We like Disney more than universal but not having to get up at 7am, be on my phone every 2 hours, worry about rides selling out, worry about when I show up to the parks just shows how bad Disney botched this pay for service.
> 
> It’a so annoying, confusing, time consuming, stressful and that happens every day that your are there that it ruins the experience
> 
> Express pass shows how bad Disney screwed this whole thing up.



How much did the Express Pass cost?

Were any attractions excluded?


----------



## 20KLeagues

wisblue said:


> How much did the Express Pass cost?
> 
> Were any attractions excluded?


was included with hotel, we were at hard rock....every single ride is included with no time or ride restrictions  **the only rides that do not have Express access in either park are Velosicoaster or Hagrids

Universal has done with all new rides for some time before adding them


----------



## michaeldorn1

ande2428 said:


> Ha Ha!  Then I’ll use a picture


OK, now I have proven I am an idiot!  ;-) Thanks!


----------



## wisblue

20KLeagues said:


> was included with hotel, we were at hard rock....every single ride is included with no time or ride restrictions  **except velocicoaster **
> 
> Universal has done with all new rides for some time before adding them



So you have to stay at one of their higher end hotels to get that benefit.

Disney would have a very hard time doing that given how many more hotels they have.

You‘re comparing something that Universal sells for over $100 per day per person to something that Disney offers for much less.


----------



## 20KLeagues

wisblue said:


> So you have to stay at one of their higher end hotels to get that benefit.
> 
> Disney would have a very hard time doing that given how many more hotels they have.
> 
> You‘re comparing something that Universal sells for over $100 per day per person to something that Disney offers for much less.


No they wouldn't.......Include in Deluxe only (like extended hours) and then charge all other hotel guests and sell a limited amount......if they dont sell out then offer to non hotel guests


----------



## MakiraMarlena

the Universal fans will tell you that a room at one of their high end hotels is much cheaper than a room at one of WDW's high end hotels. If you were planning to go high end anyway.

Disney does have the daily price benefit, however with Uni you don't have to schedule, you just walk up and they put you in the special line. Plus I believe you can use express pass for repeat attractions.

I can't bring myself to like Universal on the same level though. I will probably have an AP at Uni when I live in Florida someday, but not until then.


----------



## 20KLeagues

MakiraMarlena said:


> the Universal fans will tell you that a room at one of their high end hotels is much cheaper than a room at one of WDW's high end hotels. If you were planning to go high end anyway.
> 
> Disney does have the daily price benefit, however with Uni you don't have to schedule, you just walk up and they put you in the special line. Plus I believe you can use express pass for repeat attractions.
> 
> I can't bring myself to like Universal on the same level though. I will probably have an AP at Uni when I live in Florida someday, but not until then.


You dont have to.......We have stayed at Hard Rock, got the express pass and visited Disney........Hotel is less than half the price of a deluxe, rooms are nicer and you get express pass included............then we just visit Disney for 2 or 3 days and SAVE A &%^$ ton of money and have a great experience

Especially with all of Disney's on site advantages being canceled to cost cutting measures, might as well get a HUGE benefit from universal, stay at a GREAT hotel for less than half the price while still enjoying WDW, along with Universal


Try it if you havent done it, i bet you will never stay in a WDW hotel again


----------



## MakiraMarlena

I've stayed at all three of the Uni high end resorts and at Cabana Bay. 

in both cases I was done with the parks in 2 days and had enough of Uni. Having DVC for 20 years kind of stops me from spending my trips entirely in a Uni resort, but I don't have to pay WDW prices either.

When I move to the area I will have more time for Universal but that will probably be day trips.


----------



## 20KLeagues

MakiraMarlena said:


> I've stayed at all three of the Uni high end resorts and at Cabana Bay.
> 
> in both cases I was done with the parks in 2 days and had enough of Uni. Having DVC for 20 years kind of stops me from spending my trips entirely in a Uni resort, but I don't have to pay WDW prices either.
> 
> When I move to the area I will have more time for Universal but that will probably be day trips.


Right I think Universal is 3 days max right now and thats if you include Volcano Bay........

But you can still stay there for a week and do that and then still do Disney at a fraction of the cost

While the parks dont quite measure up to WDW parks, i think its exact opposite with the hotels.....

the hotels are nicer, cheaper and have free express pass


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## empedocles

Idly perusing MDE.  6 1/3 hour virtual queue for Rat at 3:15ish EDT?


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## MakiraMarlena

that just means that you can join the queue now, but it might be 8pm before you get called back.


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## scrappinginontario

Please take this discussion back to Genie and away from Universal please.  There is an entire board dedicated to Universal Studios for those who wish to discuss it.

Thanks.


----------



## Monk6552

Just went to Disney 10/21-10/24 and had Genie+ the entire trip - want to share what I learned in hopes that it may help others! We had a vacation package and were under the impression we had to buy Genie for the entire trip - whether I would do that again remains to be seen. 

10/21 - DHS. Overall, G+ seemed worth it for DHS. We got there around 3:00 PM - but made our choices at 7 am - bought both MMRR and RoTR first thing for later in the evening and reserved SDD via G+ for around 4 PM. In retrospect it may have been possible to stack another G+ option after 11 am - but I didn't think to try this. We got to the park and did standby tower, then made it over to SDD. As soon as we were through both LL gates we made another G+ for toy story mania. In the mean time we did RotR and MMRR. After toy story mania we did standby smugglers run. We ended up walking on toy story mania again (because we couldn't reserve it twice via G+). Ultimately we only used 2 G+ that day - in part because we were able to do everything else we wanted standby.

10/22 - MK. Definitely worth it. Again woke up at 7 am - and bought mine train and made G+ for Jungle cruise at 9:15 am (Jungle cruise seemed to be booking up the quickest so we knew we wanted to book it first for an early LL. We had ETPE and got there by 8:30, but didn't try to rush on any rides after looking how quickly wait times went up. Instead we got food and casually went on the carousel. As soon as the rest of the park opened at 9:00 AM we headed to frontierland. We walked on splash mountain and then thunder mountain - the wait was maybe 10 minutes. We then headed to jungle cruise to make it before our window closed. As soon as we got on jungle cruise made another G+ selection for Haunted Mansion - which again I had been watching wait times/G+ options the prior two days and saw it booking up early. Then did standby pirates, got dole whip, then headed to haunted mansion (because we were booking G+ after going on a prior G+ selection we were able to make selections less than 120 min apart). So this doesn't become a 4 page post - we were able to to get on buzz light year, small world, tomorrowland speedway, magic carpet, and thunder mtn a second time all on G+. We did mine train and space mountain via LL$. We did standby dumbo, laugh factory, carousel of progress as well. We fit in every ride we wanted to and the longest line we waited in was 15 for laugh factory (not worth it!) - but for us G+ and LL$ were worth it.

10/23 - Epcot. NOT worth it. We booked test track via G+ - that's the only one we ended up using, they we had a another one for mission space. We were able to get Remy via virtual queue and got on by 1. Did Soarin, figment, spaceship earth, living with the land, and tres caballeros. There just aren't that many rides that require G+ at Epcot.

10/24 - DHS. We already did almost everything wanted on Thursday so it didn't feel terribly worth it to have a second day. We did not get up at 7 am or rope drop. We made G+ for toy story mania and after that we had lunch and then res at Oga's. We did standby Muppet Vision, and then did our second G+ lanes split up and did tower/rockin respectively. I think it would've been more worth it if we rope dropped, but we were worn out!

Overall, for us G+ and LL$ were definitely worth it since we hadn't been in years, it was packed, and we probably won't be back for years, but I can see how it may not be for others like AP holders and those who can go midweek. But there is definitely a skill/game to getting everything you want and you have to be watching what's available and what tends to book up quickly. Hope this is helpful in some way for others!


----------



## 20KLeagues

Monk6552 said:


> Just went to Disney 10/21-10/24 and had Genie+ the entire trip - want to share what I learned in hopes that it may help others! We had a vacation package and were under the impression we had to buy Genie for the entire trip - whether I would do that again remains to be seen.
> 
> 10/21 - DHS. Overall, G+ seemed worth it for DHS. We got there around 3:00 PM - but made our choices at 7 am - bought both MMRR and RoTR first thing for later in the evening and reserved SDD via G+ for around 4 PM. In retrospect it may have been possible to stack another G+ option after 11 am - but I didn't think to try this. We got to the park and did standby tower, then made it over to SDD. As soon as we were through both LL gates we made another G+ for toy story mania. In the mean time we did RotR and MMRR. After toy story mania we did standby smugglers run. We ended up walking on toy story mania again (because we couldn't reserve it twice via G+). Ultimately we only used 2 G+ that day - in part because we were able to do everything else we wanted standby.
> 
> 10/22 - MK. Definitely worth it. Again woke up at 7 am - and bought mine train and made G+ for Jungle cruise at 9:15 am (Jungle cruise seemed to be booking up the quickest so we knew we wanted to book it first for an early LL. We had ETPE and got there by 8:30, but didn't try to rush on any rides after looking how quickly wait times went up. Instead we got food and casually went on the carousel. As soon as the rest of the park opened at 9:00 AM we headed to frontierland. We walked on splash mountain and then thunder mountain - the wait was maybe 10 minutes. We then headed to jungle cruise to make it before our window closed. As soon as we got on jungle cruise made another G+ selection for Haunted Mansion - which again I had been watching wait times/G+ options the prior two days and saw it booking up early. Then did standby pirates, got dole whip, then headed to haunted mansion (because we were booking G+ after going on a prior G+ selection we were able to make selections less than 120 min apart). So this doesn't become a 4 page post - we were able to to get on buzz light year, small world, tomorrowland speedway, magic carpet, and thunder mtn a second time all on G+. We did mine train and space mountain via LL$. We did standby dumbo, laugh factory, carousel of progress as well. We fit in every ride we wanted to and the longest line we waited in was 15 for laugh factory (not worth it!) - but for us G+ and LL$ were worth it.
> 
> 10/23 - Epcot. NOT worth it. We booked test track via G+ - that's the only one we ended up using, they we had a another one for mission space. We were able to get Remy via virtual queue and got on by 1. Did Soarin, figment, spaceship earth, living with the land, and tres caballeros. There just aren't that many rides that require G+ at Epcot.
> 
> 10/24 - DHS. We already did almost everything wanted on Thursday so it didn't feel terribly worth it to have a second day. We did not get up at 7 am or rope drop. We made G+ for toy story mania and after that we had lunch and then res at Oga's. We did standby Muppet Vision, and then did our second G+ lanes split up and did tower/rockin respectively. I think it would've been more worth it if we rope dropped, but we were worn out!
> 
> Overall, for us G+ and LL$ were definitely worth it since we hadn't been in years, it was packed, and we probably won't be back for years, but I can see how it may not be for others like AP holders and those who can go midweek. But there is definitely a skill/game to getting everything you want and you have to be watching what's available and what tends to book up quickly. Hope this is helpful in some way for others!


Agree.  Main points are:  when slow = don’t need it.   When busy = won’t work.  Repeat customers = diminishing margin returns. 

poorly designed and flawed system.  Could it be more confusing?


----------



## klbrow11

Okay I hate this system. Here now and the cannot even purchase. Staying at Saratoga Springs. Could not get it bought ahead of 7 or even at 7. Not genie plus or even an individual attraction. I got a blank box which is where something probably should have been and error messages. Changed settings, restarted app, reinstalled app, restarted my phone. Nothing. Nada. Frustrated I gave up. I did not want to trek all the way to get help from hotel staff and we needed to head to hollywood studios for early park entry. I changed all my plans and strategy and said screw genie. We managed to do every ride except rocking rollercoaster because of height. This includes Rise during standby. We did most rides twice including all of toy story, tower, star tours, and MMRR. Also saw the frozen show. We ate at sci fi for lunch and 50s prime time for dinner. We left right before park close. I do not feel genie would have been worth it...or even individual. 

Now its 5 am on our magic kingdom day and I still cannot purchase genie plus. I also hate When I go to tip board it always defaults as animal kingdom and I have to manually change it every time. And sometimes it did not load. When I get home I see an email happening.


----------



## CJK

klbrow11 said:


> Okay I hate this system. Here now and the cannot even purchase. Staying at Saratoga Springs. Could not get it bought ahead of 7 or even at 7. Not genie plus or even an individual attraction. I got a blank box which is where something probably should have been and error messages. Changed settings, restarted app, reinstalled app, restarted my phone. Nothing. Nada. Frustrated I gave up. I did not want to trek all the way to get help from hotel staff and we needed to head to hollywood studios for early park entry. I changed all my plans and strategy and said screw genie. We managed to do every ride except rocking rollercoaster because of height. This includes Rise during standby. We did most rides twice including all of toy story, tower, star tours, and MMRR. Also saw the frozen show. We ate at sci fi for lunch and 50s prime time for dinner. We left right before park close. I do not feel genie would have been worth it...or even individual.
> 
> Now its 5 am on our magic kingdom day and I still cannot purchase genie plus. I also hate When I go to tip board it always defaults as animal kingdom and I have to manually change it every time. And sometimes it did not load. When I get home I see an email happening.


So sorry to hear all your trouble with Genie+! Are you by chance an international guest? I know that international guests have had all sorts of trouble. I do hope you have a great trip, regardless of all the trouble. Sounds like a great day in DHS.


----------



## DJFan88

klbrow11 said:


> Okay I hate this system. Here now and the cannot even purchase. Staying at Saratoga Springs. Could not get it bought ahead of 7 or even at 7. Not genie plus or even an individual attraction. I got a blank box which is where something probably should have been and error messages. Changed settings, restarted app, reinstalled app, restarted my phone. Nothing. Nada. Frustrated I gave up. I did not want to trek all the way to get help from hotel staff and we needed to head to hollywood studios for early park entry. I changed all my plans and strategy and said screw genie. We managed to do every ride except rocking rollercoaster because of height. This includes Rise during standby. We did most rides twice including all of toy story, tower, star tours, and MMRR. Also saw the frozen show. We ate at sci fi for lunch and 50s prime time for dinner. We left right before park close. I do not feel genie would have been worth it...or even individual.
> 
> Now its 5 am on our magic kingdom day and I still cannot purchase genie plus. I also hate When I go to tip board it always defaults as animal kingdom and I have to manually change it every time. And sometimes it did not load. When I get home I see an email happening.



I understand the email, but I hope you will go down and have someone help you fix it for this trip, since others are able to use it, maybe they can help you fix it, so you can use it this trip.
It could be an easy fix, and your email will be fairer if you at least tried to have them help you.


----------



## ZeeWP

I think Disney will eventually need to move Universal's model. It's just two confusing for people. I don't understand how just one ILL$ ride selling out every day, could make enough money for a company like Disney. I can see how an overall added $50 a day for all the rides can make them money, and following Universal, 100 a day for sure could make a lot.


----------



## roctavia

ZeeWP said:


> I think Disney will eventually need to move Universal's model. It's just two confusing for people. I don't understand how just one ILL$ ride selling out every day, could make enough money for a company like Disney. I can see how an overall added $50 a day for all the rides can make them money, and following Universal, 100 a day for sure could make a lot.



But they weren't making anything before on FP+ and Genie IT was already a work in progress, so it's sort of all profit... 15 a day per person adds up fast to an extra thousands of dollars per day even if only a couple of hundred people buy genie plus... then they all spend another 15 on ILL$ or more.... They're making plenty of money with this every day.


----------



## scrappinginontario

Just a note for International guests.  Some are now able to get the tip board to work.  It started working for me today and I received an email from Disney IT that they feel the problem should be resolved.  I have replied to them that I am able to see it now (Canada, iPhone) but not all are able to see it yet so hopefully they'll continue to work on a fix.


----------



## AnnaKristoff2013

ZeeWP said:


> I think Disney will eventually need to move Universal's model. It's just two confusing for people. I don't understand how just one ILL$ ride selling out every day, could make enough money for a company like Disney. I can see how an overall added $50 a day for all the rides can make them money, and following Universal, 100 a day for sure could make a lot.


More likely that they move to an an all ILL$ system where you must pay for every line skip, limit once per ride.


----------



## JakeAZ

ZeeWP said:


> I think Disney will eventually need to move Universal's model. It's just two confusing for people. I don't understand how just one ILL$ ride selling out every day, could make enough money for a company like Disney. I can see how an overall added $50 a day for all the rides can make them money, and following Universal, 100 a day for sure could make a lot.


They may eventually do this, but don't expect it to be anywhere close to $50 or $100.


----------



## boogienights

I was initially enthusiastic about Genie but having read multiple reviews here and elsewhere, it's a hard pass for me.   Having to stay in an outrageously expensive WDW resort to get the full benefit of a line skipping system which  doesn't seem to confer all that much benefit  and then having to get up early, make reservations, run to rope drop and then bury my nose in my phone for hours a day?  No thank you.    Congratulations Universal and my beloved Royal Pacific Resort ...  all the money I would have spent on tix, food, souvenirs for a few days at WDW will now go to Universal instead.  More days at HHN? Yup.  More meals and bevvies at CityWalk?  Yup.  More days soaking up the sun at Volcano Bay?  Yup.  More park days, sleeping in and lazily sauntering over to ride the Mummy as many times as I darn well want? Yup. That $20 Potter themed trinket I wouldnt have otherwise bought?  Yup. There is really and truly nothing at WDW that justifies the expense and hassle.  Any magic that existed has just disappeared.  I guess there will be a 2 fewer people competing for ROTR ILL$.  You're welcome lol.


----------



## g-dad66

klbrow11 said:


> Okay I hate this system. Here now and the cannot even purchase. Staying at Saratoga Springs. Could not get it bought ahead of 7 or even at 7. Not genie plus or even an individual attraction. I got a blank box which is where something probably should have been and error messages. Changed settings, restarted app, reinstalled app, restarted my phone. Nothing. Nada. Frustrated I gave up. I did not want to trek all the way to get help from hotel staff and we needed to head to hollywood studios for early park entry. I changed all my plans and strategy and said screw genie. We managed to do every ride except rocking rollercoaster because of height. This includes Rise during standby. We did most rides twice including all of toy story, tower, star tours, and MMRR. Also saw the frozen show. We ate at sci fi for lunch and 50s prime time for dinner. We left right before park close. I do not feel genie would have been worth it...or even individual.
> 
> Now its 5 am on our magic kingdom day and I still cannot purchase genie plus. I also hate When I go to tip board it always defaults as animal kingdom and I have to manually change it every time. And sometimes it did not load. When I get home I see an email happening.



Sorry about the terrible experience.

We were not planning to purchase Genie+ for every day, but now I am wondering if we should just go ahead and pay for the whole thing now.

I dread being up early for our first day at Hollywood Studios and being unable to pay for Genie+ for the day.

Has anyone else experienced this problem?


----------



## DisneyKidds

boogienights said:


> I was initially enthusiastic about Genie but having read multiple reviews here and elsewhere, it's a hard pass for me.   Having to stay in an outrageously expensive WDW resort to get the full benefit of a line skipping system which  doesn't seem to confer all that much benefit  and then having to get up early, make reservations, run to rope drop and then bury my nose in my phone for hours a day?  No thank you.    Congratulations Universal and my beloved Royal Pacific Resort ...  all the money I would have spent on tix, food, souvenirs for a few days at WDW will now go to Universal instead.  More days at HHN? Yup.  More meals and bevvies at CityWalk?  Yup.  More days soaking up the sun at Volcano Bay?  Yup.  More park days, sleeping in and lazily sauntering over to ride the Mummy as many times as I darn well want? Yup. That $20 Potter themed trinket I wouldnt have otherwise bought?  Yup. There is really and truly nothing at WDW that justifies the expense and hassle.  Any magic that existed has just disappeared.  I guess there will be a 2 fewer people competing for ROTR ILL$.  You're welcome lol.


No, seriously, tell us how you REALLY feel!


----------



## Sjm9911

g-dad66 said:


> Sorry about the terrible experience.
> 
> We were not planning to purchase Genie+ for every day, but now I am wondering if we should just go ahead and pay for the whole thing now.
> 
> I dread being up early for our first day at Hollywood Studios and being unable to pay for Genie+ for the day.
> 
> Has anyone else experienced this problem?


Nope. 
But we got it for the whole trip just incase. Disney IT , isnt the most reliable and its one less thing to do in the am. Thay make it easy for you to get the whole trip, and hard for you if you dont. Its all part of the disney plan to make more money....um.....I mean disney magic!


----------



## mom2cinderella

Since it’s just youngest & I on our next trip, I went ahead and got Genie+ now. After watching a RixFlix (?) video of the first day I am  but hopefully the system is a little smoother by January? 

Aaaaaanyway, my questions for other prepurchasers are:

 1. Does it show in the app that you have bought it? Doesn’t seem to for me (nor memory maker) but maybe when my trip actually starts it will? 

2. I am 60 days out next week, but Genie says “you can make reservations in one day!”.  I assume that’s a glitch, right?


----------



## Sjm9911

Mine only shows if you look at the tickets. I will be there on the 2nd. The trip is highlighted on the calander in the genie ap. But thats just because were on property i think. And its showing our stay.


----------



## ZeeWP

JakeAZ said:


> They may eventually do this, but don't expect it to be anywhere close to $50 or $100.


I was just comparing it to the value it is now, but I do agree it will get a lot higher.


----------



## CarolynFH

mom2cinderella said:


> 2. I am 60 days out next week, but Genie says “you can make reservations in one day!”. I assume that’s a glitch, right?


Yes, it's a glitch, unfortunately.  When Genie has said "you can make ADRs today!" people who have clicked on it have been brought to the dining reservation site, which then didn't allow them to make ADRs because they were early.  Apparently the people who programmed that part of Genie misunderstood the 60+length of stay rule and did it backwards.  Imagine that - Disney IT messed up!


----------



## 20KLeagues

Today in Magic Kingdom is a great example of why you shouldn't waste your money on Genie+ and IA$ (and it looks like people are not doing it)

Theres only 2 rides with an actual standby wait of 30 mins or more
1) Peter Pan is currently 40 (Note that it was down for some time today)
2) Seven Dwarfs currently 33

Every Genie+ return time is within 10 mins except Jungle Cruise, Haunted Mansion and Peter Pan

IA$ for Seven D and Space return times are both within 5 mins....


People are not paying for this and good for them


You dont need to pay for it


----------



## Airb330

The tip board is fun. It’s shown me that while I’m going to miss FP+ for my touring style, that G+ doesn’t fit it at all. We won’t be buying it. I don’t see the value. I’m sure you can work it well on certain days and truly get more rides. I have no desire to cross cross the park depending on the best LL that’s open. I can get everything I want done in Standby.

Ok if I was going on thanksgiving or Easter yes I’d _probably_ buy it to help space things out.


----------



## leeniewdw

20KLeagues said:


> Today in Magic Kingdom is a great example of why you shouldn't waste your money on Genie+ and IA$ (and it looks like people are not doing it)
> 
> Theres only 2 rides with an actual standby wait of 30 mins or more
> 1) Peter Pan is currently 40 (Note that it was down for some time today)
> 2) Seven Dwarfs currently 33
> 
> Every Genie+ return time is within 10 mins except Jungle Cruise, Haunted Mansion and Peter Pan
> 
> IA$ for Seven D and Space return times are both within 5 mins....
> 
> People are not paying for this and good for them
> 
> You dont need to pay for it



Interesting.  I've been watching a little but not today.  This weekend should be different and good to compare.

Also will be curious if the times change at 2pm when any morning grabs of post 2pm times from people hopping.  But I have to think the people even trying to do that (stacking for hopping) at this point would be a small sample.


----------



## StarrySkye21

I know this is somewhere in the nearly 300 pages, so I apologize for asking again.  I’m just not sure where to find the exact answer.

Anyway, we are doing MK for an entire day, but 1/3 of our party can’t arrive until after 3 pm.  Because if this, we would like to save the best headliners for when they are with us.  The plan is to do the more kiddie rides and shows and in the meantime stack g+ passes for those headliners.

My hope is to do the double stack technique where I book the first g+ ride (a kiddie ride) around 11 and subsequently grab a second g+ pass just before we enter the ride queue.  From that point on, we would be doing mostly standby while stacking up headliners for later in the day.

If I am able to manage this (will depend on crowd size and what time g+ passes are booking out to), is it allowable to have more than two rides stacked up for use later in the day?

for example:

At 9 am book Dumbo for return time of 10:45.
At 11 am book Splash for a 3:20 return time (+1).
Enter Dumbo at 11:01.
At 11:02 book Big Thunder for a return time of 3:45 (+2).
At 1 pm book Pirates for a return time if 4:30 (+3).
At 3 pm book Peter Pan for a return time of 5:00 (+4).

As you can see, if all goes according to plan (yeah, I know), I could potentially have 4 g+ passes stacked up in time for the rest of our party to join us.
Is this allowed?
Thanks!

Edited: I just realize that I could potentially have a couple  more stacked up since at 1:02 I would have yet another window to book an attraction. My brain hurts.


----------



## leeniewdw

StarrySkye21 said:


> I know this is somewhere in the nearly 300 pages, so I apologize for asking again.  I’m just not sure where to find the exact answer.
> 
> Anyway, we are doing MK for an entire day, but 1/3 of our party can’t arrive until after 3 pm.  Because if this, we would like to save the best headliners for when they are with us.  The plan is to do the more kiddie rides and shows and in the meantime stack g+ passes for those headliners.
> 
> My hope is to do the double stack technique where I book the first g+ ride (a kiddie ride) around 11 and subsequently grab a second g+ pass just before we enter the ride queue.  From that point on, we would be doing mostly standby while stacking up headliners for later in the day.
> 
> If I am able to manage this (will depend on crowd size and what time g+ passes are booking out to), is it allowable to have more than two rides stacked up for use later in the day?
> 
> for example:
> 
> At 9 am book Dumbo for return time of 10:45.
> At 11 am book Splash for a 3:20 return time (+1).
> Enter Dumbo at 11:01.
> At 11:02 book Big Thunder for a return time of 3:45 (+2).
> *At 1 pm book Pirates for a return time if 4:30 (+3)*.
> *At 3 pm book Peter Pan for a return time of 5:00 (+4)*.
> 
> As you can see, if all goes according to plan (yeah, I know), I could potentially have 4 g+ passes stacked up in time for the rest of our party to join us.
> Is this allowed?
> Thanks!
> 
> Edited: I just realize that I could potentially have more stacked up since at 1:02 I would have yet another window to book an attraction.



I had a similar plan to this, but someone pointed out that it's probably going to be 1:02 and 3:02 because the 2 hour cool down window moves the 1pm to 1:02 since you booked your last LL at 11:02.   Other than that I think this works (as of now!)

Edit to your edit:  I don't think you can stack *again *at 1:02, I think you one and only slot at that time is 1:02.


----------



## Bevo in VA

The problem with your example is you have to take the next available time.  If you book a 9AM Dumbo, the return time will be 9:00.  With G+. you can't select return times.


----------



## StarrySkye21

Bevo in VA said:


> The problem with your example is you have to take the next available time.  If you book a 9AM Dumbo, the return time will be 9:00.  With G+. you can't select return times.



Correct.  If there’s virtually no crowd the return time wouldn’t be far out.  I’m actually hoping for more crowd to help push those return times later.


----------



## TropicalDIS

20KLeagues said:


> Today in Magic Kingdom is a great example of why you shouldn't waste your money on Genie+ and IA$ (and it looks like people are not doing it)
> 
> Theres only 2 rides with an actual standby wait of 30 mins or more
> 1) Peter Pan is currently 40 (Note that it was down for some time today)
> 2) Seven Dwarfs currently 33
> 
> Every Genie+ return time is within 10 mins except Jungle Cruise, Haunted Mansion and Peter Pan
> 
> IA$ for Seven D and Space return times are both within 5 mins....
> 
> 
> People are not paying for this and good for them
> 
> 
> You dont need to pay for it



All depends on the crowd level.  Will be testing this out in a couple weeks.


----------



## HopperFan

Marionnette said:


> I'm looking forward to your impressions from your first trip. I trust you to give a fair evaluation of it. Please report back when you've had first-hand experience with it.



Background: Been going to Disney since it opened, last 15 years DS and I go 4-6 weeks. Annual Passholder. DS is disabled and while he has a DAS we rarely use it and relied on FP+ because it was fast & easy to use on my phone. I am very efficient at using my phone.  We would use DAS maybe once or twice a day, sometimes not at all.  We have not had AP for 26 mos due to COVID not allowing us to renew - we paused to go to DL which got Covid-cancelled. We went in July with full family buying regular tickets.  We now are back and have opted for Pixie Dust pass so we can only go Mon-Friday and have blockout dates. Holidays and Weekends could change the value.

We are booked for this week, Mon-Fri.  We can book 3 days so we booked M, Tu and Th.  I was given a bonus day at Epcot today and we booked Friday after we used Monday. This means it is not worth it for me to spend 6-8 hours on the phone for advance DAS which gives us preselected times. So we can just book one when we arrive through the gate.  I did use his DAS in conjunction with the Genie+ but tried to mostly rely on Genie+.

*As promised ... that I would report back how Genie+ worked for us, promised I'd be honest and go in with an open mind.* My preconceived opinion was that Animal Kingdom and Epcot would be a waste of money. But since it's just the two of us and it's all new, I decided to invest in it each day and have a better idea of it's value to share.

I do not object to the $15 per person per day, actually I think it is reasonable .... but value will come with how much I can use it AND YES I am going to compare to how much I could use FP+. With FP+ no matter how many you used, you got your money's worth since it was free but once you are charging me for a service - I want my money's worth.

*Monday - Animal Kingdom*
(Arrived at 9am / Left at 4:45 pm)
Got up early and bought Genie+ (EASY)
- Safari (booked at 7 am)
- Navi
- FOTLK
- Dinosaur
- Bird Show
- Bugs Life
Since I said earlier I'd need at least 5 to feel like I broke even ... we went over but it was completely unnecessary for Bird Show and Bugs Life.  It worked fairly seamlessly other than some universal glitches. The times offered were acceptable and practical.  My gut feeling is that you'd be better off paying for the ILL for Flight of Passage and waiting in lines. EE wasn't a long wait and not worth paying ILL to skip that line. So I think I will stick with it's not worth it for AK, unless it's a super crowded time of year. Maybe if there are more attractions (Primevil replacement, NEMO, Raft Ride) it will be a good value. *Now when EE goes down for an extended REFURB, will they remove another ride from LL to make it an ILL? If so it's def reduced the value.

*Tuesday - Magic Kingdom*
(Arrived 11am / Left 7 pm)
Got up early and bought Genie+ (EASY)
- Haunted Mansion (booked at 7am)
- Under The Sea
- Buzz Lightyear
- Tea Cups
- Pirates of the Caribbean
- Small World
I think it is worth it at Magic Kingdom. Considering we arrived 2 hours late and left 2 hours early, we could have easily booked 4+ more.  The limited number was on me, they were there to use. We also had lunch at Tony's, snack at CHH and shopped a bit - that may have given us a couple more.  I will likely always buy it for MK.  Park specific issue was Jingle Cruise still had almost a 30 minute wait even with LL.  SB (which I would never do anyway) must have been brutal. At different times of day PP had HUGE return line, so as a slow loader that might be a negative. No issues moving stuff around as needed.  As expected a few top ones stopped offering late in day but wait times were actually reasonable so that might have changed as we were leaving.

*Wednesday - EPCOT*
(Arrived 11am / Left 4pm)
Got up early and first booked Boarding Pass for REMY (EASY)
Bought Genie+ (EASY)
- Spaceship Earth (booked at 7 am)
Able to adjust this as we ran later
- Nemo (strange issue with this)
And folks, that was it! EPCOT was a complete loss since for us with Nemo we walked on in SB. Now we were there only 5 hours, had REMY pass and had a nice sit down lunch, with short shopping trip (Creative Store, whatever it's name, was less than stellar in inventory). All rides were easy to get with only TT being a very late option.  At 7 am TT's was already at noon. By time we arrived it was 2 pm and didn't take long to jump to 7 pm.  Made no sense since wait times were not bad at all. It was the emptiest we've seen TT in a while. Why the delayed time I don't know other than to try to keep guests in the park. In the end, try to book REMY Boarding Group or just pay - I almost paid $8 to ride again.  Surely check line times from days prior before buying it. I wasted $32.

*GLITCHES so far ....*

- At least 4-5 times now when I look at LL options/times I hit Book and not until it Confirms do I see that the time had completely changed as much as an hour.. CHECK YOUR final confirmation to make sure it works for you.  I had to go back and change all of those.  Also make sure you do Confirm. It might look like the booking has happened but you have to play it all the way through. I missed a couple and only when checking what I had did I see it was missing.

- Today I had Nemo booked. When I came out of lunch I checked it to make sure we didn't have to move it.  It was not on My Genie Day so I changed over to Tip Board. There it showed it was booked but when I opened it no options to add people, to cancel, to do anything with it. I went to a Blue Umbrella and showed them. He assured me I had a time and that is the time where it says Booked. I didn't believe him because it looks like a slot "to" book.  I went over it a couple times with him and he was confident he was correct.  I went to Nemo and she says "you are late". I showed her everything on my phone and she at least was honest to say she didn't understand what it was saying, how to fix it and there was nothing she could do to let us in. No matter to me it was a walk on, I was just trying to keep using the app.  NOW IN HINDSIGHT, I think what happened ... and this might have been addressed elsewhere ... we missed our window and because we had already booked, it was not going to let us book again. We couldn't cancel because it expired.  I just had not seen the "Booked" with a green check show up on any other LL options that we had already used. I would go through that closely when we were trying to repeat something for DS. It def was something showing I hadn't seen in three days.

- BIG GLITCH. CM says "IT is aware of it" to which I said "It should have been fixed before it went live".  At this point I don't think the CMs are any more knowledgeable or comfortable with this system than we are (no surprise). No matter what park I was in the TIPS BOARD thought I was in the Magic Kingdom. EVERY TIME I open that page, unless I was just on it and app didn't close, I had to "Change Park".  I told them "This whole app is built on and functioning on knowing where we are at all the time, and the one page we use the most doesn't know where we are at."  So 95% of the time when I opened that page to book a LL or look at wait times ... I had to change the park, other than Tuesday because I was in the Magic Kingdom.

OH, the Photo Filters you get with Genie+ are FUN! We loved using them and I hope they really are planning on expanding this. So much potential here, and I'm sharing them with people so a bit of PR.


Tomorrow is Hollywood Studios and excited about trying it there. We actually have DHS both days because Monday when I went to book Friday, MK was blocked out. So this will be my first days HOPPING and using it.

*After the next two days I'll update on this with final thoughts. At this moment there are pros and cons, and it will always be impacted by your own touring style, times of year, crowd levels etc.

*


----------



## wisblue

Hopper, thank you for your comments.

One thing that I will add about the value of Genie+ (that I will be testing myself in 2 weeks) is that that value can be much greater if you are planning to hop to a second park.

Our entire group of 4 only has 3 park days with no reservations at Epcot. I intend to get Genie+ each day for trial purposes if nothing else.. On the day we start at DAK I plan to get my first LL for the Safari and buy an ILL for those of us that want to do FOP. Then we’ll do EE and Dino during Early Entry. If available at a convenient time I might get a LL for Navi, which is not a must do for us. That takes care of the rides we care to do. We can spend the rest on the trails or shows where LL is no help. 

But, the main value in the Genie+ will be for the late afternoon when we plan to go to MK before staying for the Christmas event.

While Genie+ may not be worth it if DAK is your only park for the day, you could use it to get several attractions at your second park, especially if you can build a stack starting after you’ve used one or two LL at DAK. I plan to try that.


----------



## HopperFan

wisblue said:


> Hopper, thank you for your comments.
> 
> One thing that I will add about the value of Genie+ (that I will be testing myself in 2 weeks) is that that value can be much greater if you are planning to hop to a second park.
> 
> Our entire group of 4 only has 3 park days with no reservations at Epcot. I intend to get Genie+ each day for trial purposes if nothing else.. On the day we start at DAK I plan to get my first LL for the Safari and buy an ILL for those of us that want to do FOP. Then we’ll do EE and Dino during Early Entry. If available at a convenient time I might get a LL for Navi, which is not a must do for us. That takes care of the rides we care to do. We can spend the rest on the trails or shows where LL is no help.
> 
> But, the main value in the Genie+ will be for the late afternoon when we plan to go to MK before staying for the Christmas event.
> 
> While Genie+ may not be worth it if DAK is your only park for the day, you could use it to get several attractions at your second park, especially if you can build a stack starting after you’ve used one or two LL at DAK. I plan to try that.



1000% agree. I have not hopped (had planned to but so far DS was “done” early) so couldn’t report hands on. Today we try. In my final overview I will for sure add that plus - especially since it adds value to your travel time.


----------



## scrappinginontario

Thanks so much for your honest, clear, easy to read experience @HopperFan!  I look forward to hearing more once you've enjoyed your next 2 days in the parks!


----------



## HopperFan

HopperFan said:


> Background: Been going to Disney since it opened, last 15 years DS and I go 4-6 weeks. Annual Passholder. DS is disabled and while he has a DAS we rarely use it and relied on FP+ because it was fast & easy to use on my phone. I am very efficient at using my phone.  We would use DAS maybe once or twice a day, sometimes not at all.  We have not had AP for 26 mos due to COVID not allowing us to renew - we paused to go to DL which got Covid-cancelled. We went in July with full family buying regular tickets.  We now are back and have opted for Pixie Dust pass so we can only go Mon-Friday and have blockout dates. Holidays and Weekends could change the value.
> 
> We are booked for this week, Mon-Fri.  We can book 3 days so we booked M, Tu and Th.  I was given a bonus day at Epcot today and we booked Friday after we used Monday. This means it is not worth it for me to spend 6-8 hours on the phone for advance DAS which gives us preselected times. So we can just book one when we arrive through the gate.  I did use his DAS in conjunction with the Genie+ but tried to mostly rely on Genie+.
> 
> *As promised ... that I would report back how Genie+ worked for us, promised I'd be honest and go in with an open mind.* My preconceived opinion was that Animal Kingdom and Epcot would be a waste of money. But since it's just the two of us and it's all new, I decided to invest in it each day and have a better idea of it's value to share.
> 
> I do not object to the $15 per person per day, actually I think it is reasonable .... but value will come with how much I can use it AND YES I am going to compare to how much I could use FP+. With FP+ no matter how many you used, you got your money's worth since it was free but once you are charging me for a service - I want my money's worth.
> 
> *Monday - Animal Kingdom*
> (Arrived at 9am / Left at 4:45 pm)
> Got up early and bought Genie+ (EASY)
> - Safari (booked at 7 am)
> - Navi
> - FOTLK
> - Dinosaur
> - Bird Show
> - Bugs Life
> Since I said earlier I'd need at least 5 to feel like I broke even ... we went over but it was completely unnecessary for Bird Show and Bugs Life.  It worked fairly seamlessly other than some universal glitches. The times offered were acceptable and practical.  My gut feeling is that you'd be better off paying for the ILL for Flight of Passage and waiting in lines. EE wasn't a long wait and not worth paying ILL to skip that line. So I think I will stick with it's not worth it for AK, unless it's a super crowded time of year. Maybe if there are more attractions (Primevil replacement, NEMO, Raft Ride) it will be a good value. *Now when EE goes down for an extended REFURB, will they remove another ride from LL to make it an ILL? If so it's def reduced the value.
> 
> *Tuesday - Magic Kingdom*
> (Arrived 11am / Left 7 pm)
> Got up early and bought Genie+ (EASY)
> - Haunted Mansion (booked at 7am)
> - Under The Sea
> - Buzz Lightyear
> - Tea Cups
> - Pirates of the Caribbean
> - Small World
> I think it is worth it at Magic Kingdom. Considering we arrived 2 hours late and left 2 hours early, we could have easily booked 4+ more.  The limited number was on me, they were there to use. We also had lunch at Tony's, snack at CHH and shopped a bit - that may have given us a couple more.  I will likely always buy it for MK.  Park specific issue was Jingle Cruise still had almost a 30 minute wait even with LL.  SB (which I would never do anyway) must have been brutal. At different times of day PP had HUGE return line, so as a slow loader that might be a negative. No issues moving stuff around as needed.  As expected a few top ones stopped offering late in day but wait times were actually reasonable so that might have changed as we were leaving.
> 
> *Wednesday - EPCOT*
> (Arrived 11am / Left 4pm)
> Got up early and first booked Boarding Pass for REMY (EASY)
> Bought Genie+ (EASY)
> - Spaceship Earth (booked at 7 am)
> Able to adjust this as we ran later
> - Nemo (strange issue with this)
> And folks, that was it! EPCOT was a complete loss since for us with Nemo we walked on in SB. Now we were there only 5 hours, had REMY pass and had a nice sit down lunch, with short shopping trip (Creative Store, whatever it's name, was less than stellar in inventory). All rides were easy to get with only TT being a very late option.  At 7 am TT's was already at noon. By time we arrived it was 2 pm and didn't take long to jump to 7 pm.  Made no sense since wait times were not bad at all. It was the emptiest we've seen TT in a while. Why the delayed time I don't know other than to try to keep guests in the park. In the end, try to book REMY Boarding Group or just pay - I almost paid $8 to ride again.  Surely check line times from days prior before buying it. I wasted $32.
> 
> *GLITCHES so far ....*
> 
> - At least 4-5 times now when I look at LL options/times I hit Book and not until it Confirms do I see that the time had completely changed as much as an hour.. CHECK YOUR final confirmation to make sure it works for you.  I had to go back and change all of those.  Also make sure you do Confirm. It might look like the booking has happened but you have to play it all the way through. I missed a couple and only when checking what I had did I see it was missing.
> 
> - Today I had Nemo booked. When I came out of lunch I checked it to make sure we didn't have to move it.  It was not on My Genie Day so I changed over to Tip Board. There it showed it was booked but when I opened it no options to add people, to cancel, to do anything with it. I went to a Blue Umbrella and showed them. He assured me I had a time and that is the time where it says Booked. I didn't believe him because it looks like a slot "to" book.  I went over it a couple times with him and he was confident he was correct.  I went to Nemo and she says "you are late". I showed her everything on my phone and she at least was honest to say she didn't understand what it was saying, how to fix it and there was nothing she could do to let us in. No matter to me it was a walk on, I was just trying to keep using the app.  NOW IN HINDSIGHT, I think what happened ... and this might have been addressed elsewhere ... we missed our window and because we had already booked, it was not going to let us book again. We couldn't cancel because it expired.  I just had not seen the "Booked" with a green check show up on any other LL options that we had already used. I would go through that closely when we were trying to repeat something for DS. It def was something showing I hadn't seen in three days.
> 
> - BIG GLITCH. CM says "IT is aware of it" to which I said "It should have been fixed before it went live".  At this point I don't think the CMs are any more knowledgeable or comfortable with this system than we are (no surprise). No matter what park I was in the TIPS BOARD thought I was in the Magic Kingdom. EVERY TIME I open that page, unless I was just on it and app didn't close, I had to "Change Park".  I told them "This whole app is built on and functioning on knowing where we are at all the time, and the one page we use the most doesn't know where we are at."  So 95% of the time when I opened that page to book a LL or look at wait times ... I had to change the park, other than Tuesday because I was in the Magic Kingdom.
> 
> OH, the Photo Filters you get with Genie+ are FUN! We loved using them and I hope they really are planning on expanding this. So much potential here, and I'm sharing them with people so a bit of PR.
> 
> 
> Tomorrow is Hollywood Studios and excited about trying it there. We actually have DHS both days because Monday when I went to book Friday, MK was blocked out. So this will be my first days HOPPING and using it.
> 
> *After the next two days I'll update on this with final thoughts. At this moment there are pros and cons, and it will always be impacted by your own touring style, times of year, crowd levels etc.
> 
> *



*Part 2 is coming sooner than later* because we decided last night we were not going to buy Genie+ for today.  We spent the day at DHS, and had hoped to hop to MK to finish out to finally watch Enchantment. I realized DS was not going to make it, so we hung in a bit longer and saw the holiday lights start to come on, then left. Sad to not see Tower of Terror lit up but I push him too hard and we can lose the rest of the trip.  SO now I had to decide about today.  We were booked at DHS again, then were hopping to EPCOT for Harmonious (I hate that is so late).  When we got to room I saw we reservations at MK had opened so I switched from DHS to MK. Plan was go around lunch or later, then still hop to EPCOT for Harmonious and big thing I wanted to see Spaceship Earth lit up.  I decided I would not book Genie+ for just an afternoon, we'd done most the rides the other day anyway.  Enchantment would wait until January.  It's just another projection/firework show - I'd rather see Harmonious which is different.

Well we woke up to POURING RAIN!!!! Poor runDisney runners. I didn't have it in me to go to MK in the rain just because, so I jumped on computer and switched our reservation to EPCOT, planning to go just for evening. I also bought a *Individual Lightning Lane Pass* for REMY  for 8:25-9:25 pm. Hoping to walk out, pick a spot and see the show. Purchasing the LL is so easy, love I can pick a time!!!!!  I think it cost more than it had all week though so guess Friday is part of the weekend upcharge. Honestly since I didn't buy Genie+ and won't be spending any other money at Disney today, I'm fine with it. I waited too long to decide to book a Boarding Group this morning, and I won't be in the park at 1 pm for the next round so ... I am paying for convenience right now.

Yesterday we used Genie+ at DHS and I think it's worth it there. I know people say it's not a "full day park" but it always has been for us.  My issue is that there are "walk on" things to do aka all the shows, a couple low wait rides like Alien, Muppets and Star Tours and the rest are basically "E TICKETS" which eats up your whole day.  Long waits for ToT, RnR, Slinky, TSMM, MFSR, Rise, MMRR ... that is basically open to close with barely a potty break.

*Thursday- Disney Hollywood Studios*
(Arrived 10am / Left 7 pm)
Got up early and bought Genie+ (EASY)
- Alien Saucers (booked 7 am)
- Star Tours
- Muppet 3D
- Rock N Roller Coaster
- Toy Story Midway Mania
Might not be prime choices but the times weren't working for us with lots of back and forth walking.

First thing I noticed when I went to book my 7 am was that the return times for most the big ones were way out.  MFSR was offered for a 3:26 return time, but by 9:30 am they were offering it at 11:50 am.  Returns times got more palatable on some of them once the park had opened and lines filled in.  Something to consider when using it.  We could have continuing booking until close and there was plenty to book if we hopped.  Again had we arrived at opening stayed until closing we could have added so much more. I am happy with how our day went.  We took out time to eat at PizzeRizzo (my son loves it there and I couldn't get his favorite Sci Fi.....) and we had our 35 minutes we were allowed at Oga's Cantina. We hit all the stores to see what they have (wow, DisMart ... only Galaxy Edge had unique stuff) and he needed a few sit down and rest 15 minutes. 

*My final conclusion about Genie+ ....*

No secret I was upset about losing FP+, it made trips for my son and I so much better. I had three booked in advance, it was super simple to roll that pass the rest of the day, I had my choices of times and bottom line it was a tool that was free. With Genie+ I basically have none of that.

I won't lie, day one when I had to pay them $33 for the day to use the system, it wasn't a positive feeling. BUT it's not going anywhere and I can either pay out or not use it. Does it have value? WELL that is the question that there is no one answer to because there are so many variables that affect that.  Individual Lightning Passes .......... flashback to the ticket books, which I hate.  For some of the rides it is well worth it, for other rides it would be wait times and individual desire to determine worth.

PROS:
- If you are going to have to pay, I find the price reasonable.
- VERY easy to buy it initially online.
- Ability to buy daily, so for days or parks you don't want, it's not required.
- It allows you to lock in some really long wait time attractions, so you can spend that time doing lower wait time attractions (or eating etc).
- Being able to book one at 7 am is equal to booking 1 pre-visit like before.
- You are able to do all the work on your phone no matter where you are located.
- It is similar to FastPass enough to make many happy.
- Includes the fun photo filters, and my hope is they expand on this.
- Based on those in the lines, I would say so far not many were using compared to crowds.
- One day it was frozen BUT I immediately got push notices they wanted to update the app, so we sat and let it update. I didn't notice anything new and some glitches were still there but at least they are actively working on it.

CONS:
- Major Glitch, Tip Board location not functioning well
- No choice in return times.
- No ability to modify time, you have to cancel and start over.
- To get a later time you have to wait to try later and risk times still not working or no times.
- Too often the time offered for top attraction is hours out.
- VERY IMPORTANT to learn the angles in working the 120 minute stacking system.
- To get value at Epcot & AK, you need to be park hopping where you can use it more.
- SO you need the cost of hopping on your ticket to utilize ^
- Very inflexible, which makes the day more rigid. I found there was less ebb & flow for us.
- No flexibility in time; you have ONE hour, get there.
- Check your Confirmations to make sure you got the time you thought you booked, it can jump.
- No matter what I keep hearing ... what I experienced and saw others, you have to stay on your phone more. The idea I can book and forget about it until I ride means I won't be riding much via the Genie+ unless it is all low wait ride times which why bother. The adjusting our return times allowed us to make our time in the park effective.
- Our experience at rides and Guest Experience Blue Umbrellas that CMs are no more knowledgable about the system than guests such as ourselves.  At several locations saw guests bully themselves through when it appeared (when you travel with a non-verbal person you listen to everything) they should not have gone in.  CMs were not confident.
- They need to make lines more protected. Saw three groups jump in line at Jungle Cruise, the second scanner wasn't working so they got through. When you pay for something line jumping not cool.

INDIFFERENT:
- No repeating attractions, even if you miss your time it is counted as used.


*Genie+ is a great option depending on variables ... 
so the decision to use it is a very individual decision.*
- MK and DHS a plus
- Epcot and AK a plus if you are hopping and using at other parks
- Not a plus if only doing a few hours per day in the parks
- Not a plus for regulars or locals
- A plus if once in a lifetime trip or your days are limited aka one day per park
- A plus if park hours are shorter
- If you have kids too small for most rides, might not find a plus other than MK
- Study wait times on the days before your trip to make sure you need it
- Wait times might be reasonable so spend money on the ILL
- Learn the 120 stacking rules, always book one at 7 am, check for adjusting times sooner
- Study app in advance so day of it's a breeze, and realize most the app is clutter

Would I rather have FP+ back, yes, but I can work with this just fine.


----------



## gharter

I think your assessment is very close to ours.  
Genie + is worth it at MK and HS.  AK if its crowded.  See no reason to ever use it at EPCOT.
If they fix Genie + to where you can pick times and modify times, do an attraction more than once , would be great improvements.


----------



## LindaOwl1

Thanks for the great review HopperFan!   I learned one new thing about G+ and I'm not happy about it - Does not confirm with the time you booked :  You can hit "book" for 9AM and it confirms with at 10:30 time??  This is going to have me scrambling to adjust my plans even more than I was expecting.


----------



## CarolynFH

HopperFan said:


> *Part 2 is coming sooner than later* because we decided last night we were not going to buy Genie+ for today.  We spent the day at DHS, and had hoped to hop to MK to finish out to finally watch Enchantment. I realized DS was not going to make it, so we hung in a bit longer and saw the holiday lights start to come on, then left. Sad to not see Tower of Terror lit up but I push him too hard and we can lose the rest of the trip.  SO now I had to decide about today.  We were booked at DHS again, then were hopping to EPCOT for Harmonious (I hate that is so late).  When we got to room I saw we reservations at MK had opened so I switched from DHS to MK. Plan was go around lunch or later, then still hop to EPCOT for Harmonious and big thing I wanted to see Spaceship Earth lit up.  I decided I would not book Genie+ for just an afternoon, we'd done most the rides the other day anyway.  Enchantment would wait until January.  It's just another projection/firework show - I'd rather see Harmonious which is different.
> 
> Well we woke up to POURING RAIN!!!! Poor runDisney runners. I didn't have it in me to go to MK in the rain just because, so I jumped on computer and switched our reservation to EPCOT, planning to go just for evening. I also bought a *Individual Lightning Lane Pass* for REMY  for 8:25-9:25 pm. Hoping to walk out, pick a spot and see the show. Purchasing the LL is so easy, love I can pick a time!!!!!  I think it cost more than it had all week though so guess Friday is part of the weekend upcharge. Honestly since I didn't buy Genie+ and won't be spending any other money at Disney today, I'm fine with it. I waited too long to decide to book a Boarding Group this morning, and I won't be in the park at 1 pm for the next round so ... I am paying for convenience right now.
> 
> Yesterday we used Genie+ at DHS and I think it's worth it there. I know people say it's not a "full day park" but it always has been for us.  My issue is that there are "walk on" things to do aka all the shows, a couple low wait rides like Alien, Muppets and Star Tours and the rest are basically "E TICKETS" which eats up your whole day.  Long waits for ToT, RnR, Slinky, TSMM, MFSR, Rise, MMRR ... that is basically open to close with barely a potty break.
> 
> *Thursday- Disney Hollywood Studios*
> (Arrived 10am / Left 7 pm)
> Got up early and bought Genie+ (EASY)
> - Alien Saucers (booked 7 am)
> - Star Tours
> - Muppet 3D
> - Rock N Roller Coaster
> - Toy Story Midway Mania
> Might not be prime choices but the times weren't working for us with lots of back and forth walking.
> 
> First thing I noticed when I went to book my 7 am was that the return times for most the big ones were way out.  MFSR was offered for a 3:26 return time, but by 9:30 am they were offering it at 11:50 am.  Returns times got more palatable on some of them once the park had opened and lines filled in.  Something to consider when using it.  We could have continuing booking until close and there was plenty to book if we hopped.  Again had we arrived at opening stayed until closing we could have added so much more. I am happy with how our day went.  We took out time to eat at PizzeRizzo (my son loves it there and I couldn't get his favorite Sci Fi.....) and we had our 35 minutes we were allowed at Oga's Cantina. We hit all the stores to see what they have (wow, DisMart ... only Galaxy Edge had unique stuff) and he needed a few sit down and rest 15 minutes.
> 
> *My final conclusion about Genie+ ....*
> 
> No secret I was upset about losing FP+, it made trips for my son and I so much better. I had three booked in advance, it was super simple to roll that pass the rest of the day, I had my choices of times and bottom line it was a tool that was free. With Genie+ I basically have none of that.
> 
> I won't lie, day one when I had to pay them $33 for the day to use the system, it wasn't a positive feeling. BUT it's not going anywhere and I can either pay out or not use it. Does it have value? WELL that is the question that there is no one answer to because there are so many variables that affect that.  Individual Lightning Passes .......... flashback to the ticket books, which I hate.  For some of the rides it is well worth it, for other rides it would be wait times and individual desire to determine worth.
> 
> PROS:
> - If you are going to have to pay, I find the price reasonable.
> - VERY easy to buy it initially online.
> - Ability to buy daily, so for days or parks you don't want, it's not required.
> - It allows you to lock in some really long wait time attractions, so you can spend that time doing lower wait time attractions (or eating etc).
> - Being able to book one at 7 am is equal to booking 1 pre-visit like before.
> - You are able to do all the work on your phone no matter where you are located.
> - It is similar to FastPass enough to make many happy.
> - Includes the fun photo filters, and my hope is they expand on this.
> - Based on those in the lines, I would say so far not many were using compared to crowds.
> - One day it was frozen BUT I immediately got push notices they wanted to update the app, so we sat and let it update. I didn't notice anything new and some glitches were still there but at least they are actively working on it.
> 
> CONS:
> - Major Glitch, Tip Board location not functioning well
> - No choice in return times.
> - No ability to modify time, you have to cancel and start over.
> - To get a later time you have to wait to try later and risk times still not working or no times.
> - Too often the time offered for top attraction is hours out.
> - VERY IMPORTANT to learn the angles in working the 120 minute stacking system.
> - To get value at Epcot & AK, you need to be park hopping where you can use it more.
> - SO you need the cost of hopping on your ticket to utilize ^
> - Very inflexible, which makes the day more rigid. I found there was less ebb & flow for us.
> - No flexibility in time; you have ONE hour, get there.
> - Check your Confirmations to make sure you got the time you thought you booked, it can jump.
> - No matter what I keep hearing ... what I experienced and saw others, you have to stay on your phone more. The idea I can book and forget about it until I ride means I won't be riding much via the Genie+ unless it is all low wait ride times which why bother. The adjusting our return times allowed us to make our time in the park effective.
> - Our experience at rides and Guest Experience Blue Umbrellas that CMs are no more knowledgable about the system than guests such as ourselves.  At several locations saw guests bully themselves through when it appeared (when you travel with a non-verbal person you listen to everything) they should not have gone in.  CMs were not confident.
> 
> INDIFFERENT:
> - No repeating attractions, even if you miss your time it is counted as used.
> 
> 
> *Genie+ is a great option depending on variables ...
> so the decision to use it is a very individual decision.*
> - MK and DHS a plus
> - Epcot and AK a plus if you are hopping and using at other parks
> - Not a plus if only doing a few hours per day in the parks
> - Not a plus for regulars or locals
> - A plus if once in a lifetime trip or your days are limited aka one day per park
> - A plus if park hours are shorter
> - If you have kids too small for most rides, might not find a plus other than MK
> - Study wait times on the days before your trip to make sure you need it
> - Wait times might be reasonable so spend money on the ILL
> - Learn the 120 stacking rules, always book one at 7 am, check for adjusting times sooner
> - Study app in advance so day of it's a breeze, and realize most the app is clutter
> 
> Would I rather have FP+ back, yes, but I can work with this just fine.


Thanks for such a great report.
How much was the Remy ILL$? I skim most of these posts so don’t remember seeing the actual price very often.


----------



## GBRforWDW

LindaOwl1 said:


> Thanks for the great review HopperFan!   I learned one new thing about G+ and I'm not happy about it - Does not confirm with the time you booked :  You can hit "book" for 9AM and it confirms with at 10:30 time??  This is going to have me scrambling to adjust my plans even more than I was expecting.


Yeah, I'm sure for busy rides this is worse.  Probably a thousand people clicking SDD all at the same time.  So all you can do is click fast


----------



## gharter

LindaOwl1 said:


> Does not confirm with the time you booked : You can hit "book" for 9AM and it confirms with at 10:30 time??


That happened to us as well.  A 9 am showed up , clicked on it and it returns with 10.


----------



## HopperFan

CarolynFH said:


> Thanks for such a great report.
> How much was the Remy ILL$? I skim most of these posts so don’t remember seeing the actual price very often.



I'm pretty sure it was $8 on Wednesday - I've tried to screen shot but I don't see that I did. Today I paid $11 each. It has been reported weekends will be higher and then of course holidays even higher than that.

At this point I'm budgeting for the two of us (AP so back in January for week) an extra $35 a day for Genie+ or ILL.  And honestly, it makes me think twice about any of my TS I used to book almost daily. It will just come out of our dining budget, which is fine with me, not missing anything with that.


----------



## HopperFan

LindaOwl1 said:


> Thanks for the great review HopperFan!   I learned one new thing about G+ and I'm not happy about it - Does not confirm with the time you booked :  You can hit "book" for 9AM and it confirms with at 10:30 time??  This is going to have me scrambling to adjust my plans even more than I was expecting.





GBRforWDW said:


> Yeah, I'm sure for busy rides this is worse.  Probably a thousand people clicking SDD all at the same time.  So all you can do is click fast



I could not have clicked any faster ... but I understand why it happens.  It is why it is so important to check your final confirmation.  

It also causes other problems, like it books you during an ADR which could be an issue if system is bumping your time.

I saw lots of folks arrive consistently around 40 minutes early (one was 80) for their LL time. Most were for real upset and pulling their phones out. I don't think they were trying to pull anything - I think the system booked them later and they arrived based on what they thought they booked.


----------



## gharter

HopperFan said:


> I saw lots of folks arrive consistently around 40 minutes early (one was 80) for their LL time. Most were for real upset and pulling their phones out. I don't think they were trying to pull anything - I think the system booked them later and they arrived based on what they thought they booked.


I didn't see any of that when we were there, but that would be really frustrating.  Luckily, I had watched a video earlier that talked about you might get the time you thought you clicked on, so i was watching.  That needs to be fixed as well.  If I click on a 9 am LL, it should hold it for me until I decline or cancel rather than give you a new time before you confirm.


----------



## HopperFan

gharter said:


> I didn't see any of that when we were there, but that would be really frustrating.  Luckily, I had watched a video earlier that talked about you might get the time you thought you clicked on, so i was watching.  That needs to be fixed as well.  If I click on a 9 am LL, it should hold it for me until I decline or cancel rather than give you a new time before you confirm.



Exactly, give you 15 seconds, what can that hurt. I know I punched through in single digit seconds.

I was very surprised how crowded the parks were this week compared to photos I was seeing last week. Lots of international visitors so maybe this starts a holiday time for them.  

At first I thought, you know, there will be those who don't get it or trying to get through, but it kept happening. I also learned unlike FP+ there is NO early entry. They kept us outside until the clock said exactly what our time was.

All a learning curve and Disney will keep making app and operational adjustments.


----------



## scrappinginontario

CarolynFH said:


> Thanks for such a great report.
> How much was the Remy ILL$? I skim most of these posts so don’t remember seeing the actual price very often.


Cost of ILL$ according to this post (as of Nov 5, 2021 - subject to change) are:


*Magic Kingdom**Mon - Thurs*​*Fri - Sun*​Seven Dwarfs Mine Train$10​$12​Space Mountain$7​$9​*EPCOT*Frozen Ever After$9​$11​Remy's Ratatouille Adventure$8​$11​*Disney's Hollywood Studios*Mickey and Minnie's Runaway Railway$8​$10​Rise of the Resistance$15​$15​*Disney's Animal Kingdom*Avatar's Flight of Passage$11​$14​Expedition Everest$7​$7​

I would anticipate that we may see these increased prices apply on holidays also.  Has anyone heard if this will/will not happen?


----------



## CarolynFH

scrappinginontario said:


> Cost of ILL$ according to this post (as of Nov 5, 2021 - subject to change) are:
> 
> 
> *Magic Kingdom**Mon - Thurs*​*Fri - Sun*​Seven Dwarfs Mine Train$10​$12​Space Mountain$7​$9​*EPCOT*Frozen Ever After$9​$11​Remy's Ratatouille Adventure$8​$11​*Disney's Hollywood Studios*Mickey and Minnie's Runaway Railway$8​$10​Rise of the Resistance$15​$15​*Disney's Animal Kingdom*Avatar's Flight of Passage$11​$14​Expedition Everest$7​$7​
> 
> I would anticipate that we may see these increased prices apply on holidays also.  Has anyone heard if this will/will not happen?


Thanks! I missed that somehow!


----------



## k8Davies

Just saw this on the UK ticket website looks like UK visitors can genie+  ilfor £6.99 per day when you buy a 7 or 14 day ticket did the exchange and that’s about $9.45


----------



## scrappinginontario

Question for those who have visited the parks with single park/day tickets.

If you logged onto the system and looked at ILL$ options, did it show you all 4 parks or only the park that you have a park reservation for?


----------



## soniam

scrappinginontario said:


> Question for those who have visited the parks with single park/day tickets.
> 
> If you logged onto the system and looked at ILL$ options, did it show you all 4 parks or only the park that you have a park reservation for?



I believe that you can book ILL at parks that you do not have a reservation for; however, it won't let you book them until 2pm or later. So, it must be visible somehow. I think if you go to the tip board and change parks, it will show both G+ and ILL for the park. I can see it at home for any park for the current day.


----------



## leeniewdw

scrappinginontario said:


> Question for those who have visited the parks with single park/day tickets.
> 
> If you logged onto the system and looked at ILL$ options, did it show you all 4 parks or only the park that you have a park reservation for?



I'm sure you have a great reason for asking, but if you have a 1 day/1 park ticket, would you need to see the other parks rides?


----------



## scrappinginontario

leeniewdw said:


> I'm sure you have a great reason for asking, but if you have a 1 day/1 park ticket, would you need to see the other parks rides?


I'm asking because a question was raised in another thread, if a guest has a park reservation for Epcot, when they go to book ILL$, do they see only Epcot options or other parks too?

The question came up because the person has a party ticket for the MK.  Would they be able to purchase ILLL$ for a MK attraction between when they're allowed to enter with their party ticket and before the party begins?  SDMT line often remains between 30 and 40 mins during the party so to them it would be worth the cost of purchasing it to ride it before the party begins.


----------



## leeniewdw

Ah gotcha!


----------



## Scott Murray

Who has used it and is it worth the extra money?


----------



## kanerf

I used it on my Oct trip.  It is worth the money if you don't want to stand in really long lines for just about every ride.  You look at what is available for a ride in the park you are in and select on of the Lightning Lane options.  You are only allowed to select one at a time and after you have scanned your Magic Band or pass the second time on the ride you can select another one.  Lightning Plus is a separate fee and does not require Genie+ for that day.  There are only a few rides in each park that have a Lightning Plus fee.


----------



## scrappinginontario

Scott Murray said:


> Who has used it and is it worth the extra money?


I have merged your question with the main Genie thread but there are many Genie threads out there with the information you're looking for plus the, 'Here Now & Just Back' thread is a great resource too.


----------



## 20KLeagues

Every ride is HS is currently "sold out" at 2pm.............Not a good sign for Genie+...........................

I think this is playing out as predicted......dont need it when its slow and wont be worth it when its busy

This system is in for a rude awakening a week from tomorrow when Thanksgiving crowds descend on the parks

I will bet you that the top 6 rides in HS - ROTR, MMRR, SDD, MFSR, RnR, ToT -  are "sold out" before you even get to your second Genie+ selection 2 hours after park opening 

So you are going to pay $15 for 1 ride



Every single hotel room, DVC property and restaurant is 100% booked........You cannot get 1 night at any hotel......even during the busy times in years past there would be campsites, all stars, pop or good neighbor availability.......

Not this year....Pent up demand travel is here and this will be a real test of Genie+


----------



## mom2rtk

20KLeagues said:


> Every ride is HS is currently "sold out" at 2pm.............Not a good sign for Genie+...........................
> 
> I think this is playing out as predicted......dont need it when its slow and wont be worth it when its busy
> 
> This system is in for a rude awakening a week from tomorrow when Thanksgiving crowds descend on the parks
> 
> I will bet you that the top 6 rides in HS - ROTR, MMRR, SDD, MFSR, RnR, ToT -  are "sold out" before you even get to your second Genie+ selection 2 hours after park opening
> 
> So you are going to pay $15 for 1 ride
> 
> 
> 
> Every single hotel room, DVC property and restaurant is 100% booked........You cannot get 1 night at any hotel......even during the busy times in years past there would be campsites, all stars, pop or good neighbor availability.......
> 
> Not this year....Pent up demand travel is here and this will be a real test of Genie+


I wonder how long before they have to "tier" the rides in some of those parks.


----------



## 20KLeagues

mom2rtk said:


> I wonder how long before they have to "tier" the rides in some of those parks.


Or jack up the price.......Having no availability from 2pm-7pm is a nightmare and a guest satisfaction disaster......

If they all sell out 2 hours after park opening then thats going to be a MAJOR problem


----------



## scrappinginontario

20KLeagues said:


> Every ride is HS is currently "sold out" at 2pm.............Not a good sign for Genie+...........................
> 
> I think this is playing out as predicted......dont need it when its slow and wont be worth it when its busy
> 
> This system is in for a rude awakening a week from tomorrow when Thanksgiving crowds descend on the parks
> 
> I will bet you that the top 6 rides in HS - ROTR, MMRR, SDD, MFSR, RnR, ToT -  are "sold out" before you even get to your second Genie+ selection 2 hours after park opening
> 
> So you are going to pay $15 for 1 ride
> 
> 
> 
> Every single hotel room, DVC property and restaurant is 100% booked........*You cannot get 1 night at any hotel*......even during the busy times in years past there would be campsites, all stars, pop or good neighbor availability.......
> 
> Not this year....Pent up demand travel is here and this will be a real test of Genie+


I'm not disagreeing with your post but Disney has a current 2 night minimum stay on their resort rooms.


----------



## DeeCee735

Thanks for posting these prices. It makes the decision for me regarding the parks and genie +. So for sure we’re not going to DHS and will only do the two I originally thought we would do. EPCOT and AKP. I think we will attempt LL for Remy’s and FOP. No genie+ for us. And as we originally discussed, much less parks in our future trips.
Dee


----------



## igrsod

20KLeagues said:


> I think this is playing out as predicted......dont need it when its slow and wont be worth it when its busy


That's exactly what I'm seeing.  But the interesting thing is when it's busy, if you don't have it then you have huge lines for everything that you have to wait in.
So maybe some would see it as "worth it" so as to avoid at least a couple of lines.
I for one would just wait in a few lines, catch a show, eat some food and be happy.  But if this was a once in a lifetime trip, I would be forking out for the G+.  I think that's what Disney is counting on.


----------



## GBRforWDW

igrsod said:


> I for one would just wait in a few lines, catch a show, eat some food and be happy.


We're going Christmas week and this is the reason I got G+ for our 4 park days. We went in January when no shows were there and short lines for every ride, so we're planning to do as many shows, cavalcades or parades, and Christmas decoration viewing as possible while reserving hopefully a few spots in ride lines.  But even now, it's not sounding like that will be extremely useful in most parks.   We're just going to have fun and enjoy Christmas at WDW, so we'll take what we can get.


----------



## soniam

Looking at DHS right now, a little after 11am ET, I still see Genie+ for everything except SDD, which is showing as down, and ILL for MMRR. That's promising for getting at least a second G+ if DHS is your first park. I don't see stacking G+ much on very busy days. Glad we switched one of our Epcot days to DHS for Thanksgiving week. With 2 park reservations and the willingness to pay for G+ and ILL, I think we can get it all in. It's not the end of the world if we don't, since we have ridden them all before. DHS is really going to be a 2+ day park for a while when it's really busy, if you want to do everything.


----------



## DebLovesPooh

I’m not sure if this is the right thread for this, but I’m hoping someone has the answer! In 2022, most of us will have military salute tickets with genie+ and others will have regular tickets with genie+. Will I be able to make ILL and genie+ reservations for all of us even through they are different ticket types as long as we all have genie+ already on our tickets? 

Thanks in advance!


----------



## bsmcneil

scrappinginontario said:


> I'm not disagreeing with your post but Disney has a current 2 night minimum stay on their resort rooms.


For a particular time period. You can, currently, get a 1 night at rooms for dates not in that window (I can confirm because I just did). The published dates (last I checked) went through Dec 5, 2021.


----------



## 20KLeagues

soniam said:


> Looking at DHS right now, a little after 11am ET, I still see Genie+ for everything except SDD, which is showing as down, and ILL for MMRR. That's promising for getting at least a second G+ if DHS is your first park. I don't see stacking G+ much on very busy days. Glad we switched one of our Epcot days to DHS for Thanksgiving week. With 2 park reservations and the willingness to pay for G+ and ILL, I think we can get it all in. It's not the end of the world if we don't, since we have ridden them all before. DHS is really going to be a 2+ day park for a while when it's really busy, if you want to do everything.


Very low bar.   Geez WDW has you hook, line and sinker.  Buy whatever they make you if you don’t want to wait hours, book an extra day in the park just to get what was free for the last 10+ years.


----------



## 20KLeagues

Today another example that Genie+ doesnt work at HS..........Nothing available before 4:30pm at 11am when i went to select my 2nd Genie+ (and the headliners were soldout).......this system stinks.......

Lines were long and theres nothing to do but wait in them or wait until 4:30

Genie+ is way worse than i thought  it would be


----------



## leeniewdw

Hmm, I thought I checked (from home) right at 11am and it showed early-mid afternoon for ToT and RnRC and maybe one other ride?  Obviously SDD was gone.  MFSR was like 7:20pm I think.  Right now I can see ToT for 4:50 and ST for 1:45 and Alien Saucers for 4pm.  

I suspect rides go VERY quick at 11 again and I checked at exactly 11.


----------



## scrappinginontario

It is recommended that guests who are looking for LL passes refresh on a regular basis as new options are offered as others change their plans.  Not ideal but better than nothing.


----------



## GBRforWDW

leeniewdw said:


> Hmm, I thought I checked (from home) right at 11am and it showed early-mid afternoon for ToT and RnRC and maybe one other ride?  Obviously SDD was gone.  MFSR was like 7:20pm I think.  Right now I can see ToT for 4:50 and ST for 1:45 and Alien Saucers for 4pm.
> 
> I suspect rides go VERY quick at 11 again and I checked at exactly 11.


I always forget to check, do you know if LLs were available for the shows?  BatB, Frozen, etc?


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## leeniewdw

Shows seems to readily available when I've noticed them.

And I just had a Drs appt and while waiting did the refresh thing and times did jump 'earlier' as I played around.


----------



## ZeeWP

Right now only SDD, MFSR, and Rise are out completely. I guess if you care about Star Wars it's definitely a bummer for you. But I'd gladly take a late Tower of Terror and R&R roller coaster.  Rise is probably a good ILL$ buy and After SDD, MFSR would probably be my "11 AM" choice.


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## aviva5675

We are going in 2 weeks. Plan for 1030-430.  HS.   My plan is buy ROR at 7, and also LL Smugglers, both for 11-12 hopefully.  At 1103 or right then book Mania, TOT or RRRC. The only 3 others we are really interested in. After tapping into Smugglers book another one of those. Obviously for location prefer Mania first then the other 2. We have lunch at 130.  Does this sound do able for how LL times are running?


----------



## Disturbia

If you’re buying ROTR and booking MFSR (smugglers run); I would book TOT as that sells out and pushes into the evening.  If you get ToT late afternoon, you can wait 2 hours after booking it (after scanning into MFSR) and then book SDD if you’re in the same area.  If SDD is already pushing towards late evening, then switch Strategy.  Also think about the weather and if it’s possible to wait In standby.


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## aviva5675

Yeah, across the park but the goal is to fit everything into that time frame. We have a Droid experience at 330, so I wonder if I should book Smugglers trying for a 230 or so, and do the other 3 after Rise.  Id pick Rise for later but it goes down so much I thought doing ti early has best chance of getting on.


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## Disturbia

In our experience Genie+ was sending us across the park but I kept refreshing and finally got TSMM 2 hours away after slinky.

Same thing with little mermaid Ride in MK.  Wait time was 25 mins but Genie showed no pass for 2+ hours(no one in LL).  We were trying for 4 people so sometimes it would show availability for a ride in an hour but while booking would push it 2-3hours

I saved about 4,000 steps this time per day


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## PrincessDJC

Has anyone posted what order is recommended for Genie+ rides in each park, based on how quickly they go or get pushed into late times. Assuming not trying to stack for the evening.


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## GBRforWDW

PrincessDJC said:


> Has anyone posted what order is recommended for Genie+ rides in each park, based on how quickly they go or get pushed into late times. Assuming not trying to stack for the evening.


Tom over at Disney Tourist Blog has rankings out for MK and DHS.  The top rides are the ones selling out the quickest

https://www.disneytouristblog.com/?s=Genie++Priorities+&+Lightning+Lane+Ride+Ranks


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## 20KLeagues

GBRforWDW said:


> Tom over at Disney Tourist Blog has rankings out for MK and DHS.  The top rides are the ones selling out the quickest
> 
> https://www.disneytouristblog.com/?s=Genie++Priorities+&+Lightning+Lane+Ride+Ranks


Here now and it’s been a complete disaster.   The paid ILL/IAS for rotr and fop sold out in less than 30 seconds.  Only got SDD at 7am and toy story mania at 11am for genie+ yesterday as everything else sold out.  Lines were 60-200 mins long.  

had to wake up at 6:55 every morning.  Had 3 of us trying for rides and couldn’t get them

this broke me.  I hate genie+ and hate what Disney has become. I’m done for good.


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## DeeCee735

I’ve been done with DHS for almost 2 years now. Zero plans of going back. I’ll be looking at universal for WOHP before I’ll even consider DHS again. Too much aggravation, money, wasted time, crowds and disappointment. It’s just not worth it anymore.  And Disney’s answer to what was already going on, in raising prices and turning out paid for ILL didn’t fix the same b.s. that was going on with the virtual q’s, which were at least free. When you can’t make a ride that actually functions, well that just makes it all worse. Disney, disney can’t make a ride that functions without constant breakdowns! What the heck?

We’ve never been on SSD and never will. It would have to be the best ride in history for me to even consider the aggravation of trying. We swore we were never going back after our 2/20 trip, but now we are, as DVCer’s, but outside of occasional Epcot (BWV owners) and a little AKP, no long lines or big waits or intense crowds for us EVER again.

Dee


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## 20KLeagues

Had whole family up again this morning to buy Rise at 7:00:00 we clicked, had 9:40 am and went through the remaining clicks and hit purchase.   Then it said “something went wrong” because my time was no longer available and made me start over and all ILL for rise were sold out.   Total joke.  Wake up at 6:55 again, wake whole family up and then miss it again. I’m a resort guest and had 2 of my 4 days set aside for HS and couldn’t get rise once.  This system sucks bad.  I hate what Disney has become.


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## mom2rtk

20KLeagues said:


> Had whole family up again this morning to buy Rise at 7:00:00 we clicked, had 9:40 am and went through the remaining clicks and hit purchase.   Then it said “something went wrong” because my time was no longer available and made me start over and all ILL for rise were sold out.   Total joke.  Wake up at 6:55 again, wake whole family up and then miss it again. I’m a resort guest and had 2 of my 4 days set aside for HS and couldn’t get rise once.  This system sucks bad.  I hate what Disney has become.


Sounds oh so magical.


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## GBRforWDW

20KLeagues said:


> Had whole family up again this morning to buy Rise at 7:00:00 we clicked, had 9:40 am and went through the remaining clicks and hit purchase.   Then it said “something went wrong” because my time was no longer available and made me start over and all ILL for rise were sold out.   Total joke.  Wake up at 6:55 again, wake whole family up and then miss it again. I’m a resort guest and had 2 of my 4 days set aside for HS and couldn’t get rise once.  This system sucks bad.  I hate what Disney has become.


That's so frustrating.  I thought if your time wasn't available, you'd get next available time.  That's dumb that it just kicked you out.


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## itf

GBRforWDW said:


> That's so frustrating.  I thought if your time wasn't available, you'd get next available time.  That's dumb that it just kicked you out.



You can't really do that when people are paying, in case they have other conflicting reservations or are hopping, plus there's no refund process etc... if you get given a time you can't use.


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## GBRforWDW

itf said:


> You can't really do that when people are paying, in case they have other conflicting reservations or are hopping, plus there's no refund process etc... if you get given a time you can't use.


That makes sense, but what else are people supposed to do, the natural thing is to click the first time available, so hundreds of people would be trying for the same time.  And between that and Slinky, it's basically as bad as the virtual queue where if things weren't perfect in 2 seconds, you get nothing.

Heck, it'd be better to pay to be in a virtual queue than pay for a return time that won't exist when you try to checkout.


----------



## itf

GBRforWDW said:


> That makes sense, but what else are people supposed to do, the natural thing is to click the first time available, so hundreds of people would be trying for the same time.  And between that and Slinky, it's basically as bad as the virtual queue where if things weren't perfect in 2 seconds, you get nothing.
> 
> Heck, it'd be better to pay to be in a virtual queue than pay for a return time that won't exist when you try to checkout.



I think the whole thing is an embarrassing shambles, just saying what I think the rationale is.


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## mom2rtk

itf said:


> I think the whole thing is an embarrassing shambles, just saying what I think the rationale is.


Disney doesn't care. If they didn't care about how bad their IT is for everything else they do, they're not going to care about this. They have a fat new income stream. Someone is getting that spot and paying. That's really all they care.


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## itf

mom2rtk said:


> Disney doesn't care. If they didn't care about how bad their IT is for everything else they do, they're not going to care about this. They have a fat new income stream. Someone is getting that spot and paying. That's really all they care.



I think once the pent up demand is done it will bite them long-term. People who have had bad experiences won't go back when the cost of a Disney trip can go - frankly - a lot further elsewhere.


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## DeeCee735

itf said:


> I think once the pent up demand is done it will bite them long-term. People who have had bad experiences won't go back when the cost of a Disney trip can go - frankly - a lot further elsewhere.



The demand was there in February 2020 and the park was literally shoulder to shoulder. The virtual q was the same system in that the whole world was linking in for a boarding group at 7 am and was full by 7:01. The ride itself (I’ve done it after 3 tries,(breakdown) 2 days and one heck of a stomach virus afterward)is cool but just not worth that kind of experience. Disney can keep its Star Wars galaxy’s edge and everything that comes with it and I’ll keep my money. That’s where I was then, that’s where I am now. It’s a ride, just a ride. Jmho. Dee


----------



## boogienights

Everytime I feel even the slightest pull to include a day or two at WDW in my Universal planning for 2023, I read the latest comments in this thread and the feeling goes away.  Keep them coming .


----------



## Disturbia

20KLeagues said:


> Had whole family up again this morning to buy Rise at 7:00:00 we clicked, had 9:40 am and went through the remaining clicks and hit purchase.   Then it said “something went wrong” because my time was no longer available and made me start over and all ILL for rise were sold out.   Total joke.  Wake up at 6:55 again, wake whole family up and then miss it again. I’m a resort guest and had 2 of my 4 days set aside for HS and couldn’t get rise once.  This system sucks bad.  I hate what Disney has become.


I had this happen to me 4 times before I was able to purchase MMRR (booking right after purchasing ROTR).  I had to copy and paste a code from an email.  We decided not to even deal with the BG for ROTR and purchased it instead (right at 7 am using a world clock).  ROTR was showing 11am, but when my spouse hit book it booked 9-10 am (we had OGA's at 11:25 am?).  I got MMRR 10:10-11:10 am but it went down for several hours (we got an anytime pass and an MMRR pass for 2 guests).  Later in the day TSMM was not available for 3 hours (40 min wait) but hitting refresh worked to get a time an hour away (system was sending me across the park to RnRC).  RnRC was popular at around 2 pm and everytime I hit refresh I was pushed 30 minutes out (so grab first one available).  We couldn't ride TOT because it sold out.  We had an hour 10-11 am where we could do nothing because all waits were crazy.  

Slinky was stressful because we had to rider switch (we entered 5 mins before the time started) and quickly navigate crowds to Oga's.  I would not suggest overlapping plans if you have small children.


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## Disturbia

It looks like stacking will be limited now

https://www.disneyfoodblog.com/2021...e-change-if-youre-going-to-disney-world-soon/
https://www.disboards.com/threads/t...egy-only-thread.3857056/page-86#post-63562952


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## 20KLeagues

Disturbia said:


> It looks like stacking will be limited now
> 
> https://www.disneyfoodblog.com/2021...e-change-if-youre-going-to-disney-world-soon/
> https://www.disboards.com/threads/t...egy-only-thread.3857056/page-86#post-63562952


It was never intended to do that.  It was a glitch in the program and it took them a bit to realize and correct it.


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## Garyjames220

So are u still able to stack rides for later in the day if two hours have passed


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## CJK

Garyjames220 said:


> So are u still able to stack rides for later in the day if two hours have passed


Yes you can


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## Jrb1979

Garyjames220 said:


> So are u still able to stack rides for later in the day if two hours have passed


Yes you can but if it's busy like the last few days have been there isn't much left by 1pm


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## Garyjames220

Jrb1979 said:


> Yes you can but if it's busy like the last few days have been there isn't much left by 1pm


What a fantastic new system this is playing out to be


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## shawthorne44

20KLeagues said:


> Had whole family up again this morning to buy Rise at 7:00:00 we clicked, had 9:40 am and went through the remaining clicks and hit purchase.   Then it said “something went wrong” because my time was no longer available and made me start over and all ILL for rise were sold out.   Total joke.  Wake up at 6:55 again, wake whole family up and then miss it again. I’m a resort guest and had 2 of my 4 days set aside for HS and couldn’t get rise once.  This system sucks bad.  I hate what Disney has become.



The logical thing would be to take that time out of the availability pool once someone selected that time, at least for say 5 minutes, long enough for them to complete the purchase.    That is a normal thing done with online shopping.   You put something in the cart, it isn't available for someone else to buy.


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## 20KLeagues

I would rather see Disney double the price and sell half as many GENIE+ and ILL's.....it doesnt work as currently constituted............Also really need to get rid of 7am...

Thats the worst part


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## Jrb1979

20KLeagues said:


> I would rather see Disney double the price and sell half as many GENIE+ and ILL's.....it doesnt work as currently constituted............Also really need to get rid of 7am...
> 
> Thats the worst part


The easiest fix for the 7am thing is make it only available in the parks once they are open.


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## leeniewdw

Jrb1979 said:


> The easiest fix for the 7am thing is make it only available in the parks once they are open.



Are you saying the fix should be that people can't start scheduling LLs unless they are IN the parks?  If someone is paying $15 for the service (per person!), why shouldn't they be able to use it every 2 hours just like anyone else?   People with large groups, people who want to enjoy their breakfast or resort, people who paid for a full day ticket but are traveling/arriving on one of those days.... ALL may not be entering the parks until later in the day.


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## TommyJK

shawthorne44 said:


> The logical thing would be to take that time out of the availability pool once someone selected that time, at least for say 5 minutes, long enough for them to complete the purchase.    That is a normal thing done with online shopping.   You put something in the cart, it isn't available for someone else to buy.



I've been in eComm for over a decade.  eComm retail typically doesn't "hold" the item for you while it's in your cart.  Just because you have something in your cart it doesn't save or reserve it for you through checkout.  You need to make it through checkout in order to secure the item.  Ask how many angry people there are out there that have tried to buy PS5s (or any other liminted qty hot item), have it in their cart, get to checkout but then 1/2 way through the actual checkout process it denies you basically saying "Sorry, it's gone now" because others were able to checkout faster than you were.  Target, Walmart, Best Buy..... the majority of the big guys in retail eComm work this way.  The main major exception is TicketMaster.  They've built a much more complex queing and checkout system to hold the tickets sooner in the process (they will hold the tickets for you as soon as you get past the selection process, and give you a countdown timer to complete each step), but they're the exception, not the norm.  Some retailers have gotten a bit more sophisticated and created "waiting rooms" that only let a liminted number of people in at a time to help cut down on the number of concurrent people accessing it at once, but you can still get your items scooped if you don't complete checkout fast enough.


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## 20KLeagues

leeniewdw said:


> Are you saying the fix should be that people can't start scheduling LLs unless they are IN the parks?  If someone is paying $15 for the service (per person!), why shouldn't they be able to use it every 2 hours just like anyone else?   People with large groups, people who want to enjoy their breakfast or resort, people who paid for a full day ticket but are traveling/arriving on one of those days.... ALL may not be entering the parks until later in the day.


7am EVERY day stinks bad.....i liked once 60 days out.....this trip was so stressful and exhausting getting up every monring to do it...

defeated the purpose............we wont go b it causes more stress than anything


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## GBRforWDW

leeniewdw said:


> Are you saying the fix should be that people can't start scheduling LLs unless they are IN the parks?  If someone is paying $15 for the service (per person!), why shouldn't they be able to use it every 2 hours just like anyone else?   People with large groups, people who want to enjoy their breakfast or resort, people who paid for a full day ticket but are traveling/arriving on one of those days.... ALL may not be entering the parks until later in the day.


I read it as not being able to reserve unless the park is open, however that really wouldn't change much.  It'd be the same people going after the same passes. 

I'd prefer to see no ILL$ and instead a tiered system for $20-30/pp and only 1 at a time, so no more grabbing 2 ILL$ and a regular LL at opening.  As a non park hopper I'd also like to see no choosing passes in other parks until 2pm, similar to boarding groups but without the "in the park" requirements.  I know that will cause an uproar as well, but that's a big reason they're not available after 1pm right now.  Of course, that'd just make them unavailable right after 2, lol


----------



## leeniewdw

20KLeagues said:


> 7am EVERY day stinks bad.....i liked once 60 days out.....this trip was so stressful and exhausting getting up every monring to do it...
> 
> defeated the purpose............we wont go b it causes more stress than anything



Oh -- I have no issue with the 7am complaints , was reacting more to the "in the parks" part of grabbing LLs.

We only got to use FP+ once and we liked it.   But we also went at a pretty calm time of year so I can't compare anything to this week.


----------



## FBDM66

After watching bloggers reviews and reading experiences here I decided to give it a try. My initial feelings were negative - as I read how to use it a nagging voice says to me "this used to come free your ticket"- but I wanted to see for myself. I did a three day stay-cation (I live an hour away) last week, so pre-Thanksgivng crowds.
The morning I was going I bought Genie+ from home to use at MK second half of the day- I was aiming to arrive after 2. Something told me not to reserve LL yet- good move- I didn't leave the house till 3:00- arrived at POR 4:00 and MK at 5:00. I got Buzz for 5:20 before I headed for the bus. By the time I finished Buzz there wasn't much left of LL's for the day. I didn't look at the ILL$ since I can't do coasters. I played with plain Genie suggestions - I checked off my preferences, one of which is Accessibility ( I use a cane). Well, Genie wanted me to go to Swiss Family Robiinson - STAIRS?! - no thanks. It also kept telling to eat at Sleepy Hollow- I was at Pecos Bill at that time so that's where I ate. I have more learning to do with Genie light.
First try was a waste of $15.98 (nagging voice again; used to be free) - but pretty much my fault since I bought early and arrived late.

Next day I was heading for HS. At 7:00 AM I signed on and got ILL$ for RotR for 5:25 (slow iPhone 7- messed me up with boarding groups every time). I didn't buy Genie+ and it turns out I didn't need it. (Yes, SDD and RotR were gone before park opened) Wait times weren't bad. Longest was RotR stand-by at near 2 hours. MMRR was never over 55 minutes which was down to 30 after I got off RotR at 6:00 PM. Decent day with a necessary ILL$ for Rise (nagging voice again - didn't this used to be free?)

Next day I headed for AK - Genie+ at 7AM grabbed LL for Navi River at 10:40. Got to the park close to 10 and checked to see if I could stack something- got Safari for 11:30. I could've kept going with Dinosaur & Bug LL but after seeing the gorillas my legs gave out. I can't handle EE or FoP so no ILL$. So, two LL's for $15.98. (yep- there's that nagging voice again). The lines weren't bad that day except for Navi River, so I paid $15 for that one (nagging voice)

After trying it- I don't see it's value for me- a local with AP. If I was spending all day at MK then yeah I might try it again. If stay-cationing at a resort and I want to do RotR then maybe. I'm doing a day trip to Epcot this week, and with my lack of luck with boarding groups I'll try an ILL$ for Remy- even with that nagging voice.
IMHO- I'm not a fan.


----------



## aviva5675

Going to HS Fri.  Plan to try for ROR and Smugglers around 11-12 each, at 7, staying onsite. We wont get to the park til about 1030.  My plan is get one after using one.  Only trying for those, Mania, TOT and RRRC.  Hopefully doable around 1230 lunch and 330 droid. 530 dinner elsewhere.


----------



## 20KLeagues

Saw this on another post and these are my thoughts exactly about Genie+......

People will figure it out that this system doesnt work.....when its slower, it's 100% not necessary and when it's busy, it's 100% not worth it.....

People that book resort stays several times a year (like me and my family) want to know we are getting on the high profile rides.......I would never pay $1k a night for a deluxe room if there was a chance i couldnt get on FOP or ROTR without waiting over 2 hours (which happened to me this trip), while getting up at 6:50am, while having my face buried in my phone all day.....

Its just not a vacation if I have to do that and I wont pay for that and my guess is a lot of others wont either

my edit - I want to know if i book a trip to WDW and spend $15k after room, food, tickets, etc that I am guaranteed to get on the rides i want without waiting 2+ hours.....


----------



## twodogs

leeniewdw said:


> Are you saying the fix should be that people can't start scheduling LLs unless they are IN the parks?  If someone is paying $15 for the service (per person!), why shouldn't they be able to use it every 2 hours just like anyone else?   People with large groups, people who want to enjoy their breakfast or resort, people who paid for a full day ticket but are traveling/arriving on one of those days.... ALL may not be entering the parks until later in the day.


This is how MP was at DLR.  You could not book until you (and every one of your party who wanted to book a FP) had scanned into the park (could be either park if you had a PH and then you could book FPs in either park even though you had only scanned into one).  There were pluses and minuses to this system as well.


----------



## aviva5675

Used G+ at HS yesterday. Knew fairly well what to do. Problem mainly was this: at 630 I started trying to purchase.  There was never a purple banner anywher to buy. There was one but it only showed photo lenses, etc.  I uninstalled app, chatted with CM who had no info, used 2 phones, Apple and Android. Nothing.  So at 7 had to jump on the Smugglers which was my plan, but go thru the purchase G+ steps which of course slowed things down.  Second time with problem purchasing G+ same problem. We are local AP so probably wont use it very often at all, but the fact that this screwed up LL and then also ILL problem-- put layer of stress on day that sure didnt need.


----------



## DeeCee735

We have already decided we won’t be using Genie, Genie+ or ILL. Not this trip, not next trip, maybe only when toddler grandkids are with us, if ever. We are teetering on dumping DVC with all these stressful things, and just buying more Marriott, which offers so much more relaxation without killing the wallet while on vacation! So, we decided to forgo the stress of the new system ( I really miss paper FP’s!), and see if we can still find some anticipation of going to WDW (have zero right now and leaving for it in a few days), some excitement when there and maybe a little magic. If not, we will come home and start the research on dumping a bunch of contracts.

We made some dining reservations, which some of were 2nd choices due to demand not allowing us in 1st choice/times places. Ridiculous that you can’t even eat when and where you want without the stress of pre-planning and HOPING that works out, as well as 2 park reservations. We have complimentary 2 day hoppers so we will do EPCOT without waking at dawn to try for Remy’s, the stress of trying is just not worth it to us anymore. Then AKP ( our second favorite park) to hang out with monkeys, giraffe and gorillas. If we can’t get on FOP or Everest, so be it. that approximate $60 can be spent on some nice libations!  I do hope to be able to hop to MK to see nighttime show, but that’s all I’m really looking to do, so if we can’t get in, I’ll be ticked off. After we use these passes, no parks again til kids and grandkids are with us, and that’s if we don’t sell. 

We’ve been members for 22 years, and I’m actually starting to look forward to using my home resort as a place to stay and venturing elsewhere in Florida. We have friends there and want to hit the coastal towns too. We don’t mind day trips or mid trip overnighters to other FL destinations. Disney was always the only place we ever wanted to be while in FL, but now they’re making it so easy to actually look forward to NOT being there!

We are going to take it for what it is now and see where we end up.
Dee


----------



## TheMick424

aviva5675 said:


> Used G+ at HS yesterday. Knew fairly well what to do. Problem mainly was this: at 630 I started trying to purchase.  There was never a purple banner anywher to buy. There was one but it only showed photo lenses, etc.  I uninstalled app, chatted with CM who had no info, used 2 phones, Apple and Android. Nothing.  So at 7 had to jump on the Smugglers which was my plan, but go thru the purchase G+ steps which of course slowed things down.  Second time with problem purchasing G+ same problem. We are local AP so probably wont use it very often at all, but the fact that this screwed up LL and then also ILL problem-- put layer of stress on day that sure didnt need.


By any chance were you traveling with someone who had a regular ticket with G+ already included?  I have seen other reports of this issue with no resolution other than the steps you described (ie. purchasing G+ for the AP at 7, putting them behind others trying to make LL selections at the same time).  I hope that Disney is able to figure this out and make some updates to the app.


----------



## aviva5675

TheMick424 said:


> By any chance were you traveling with someone who had a regular ticket with G+ already included?  I have seen other reports of this issue with no resolution other than the steps you described (ie. purchasing G+ for the AP at 7, putting them behind others trying to make LL selections at the same time).  I hope that Disney is able to figure this out and make some updates to the app.



I was actually. We are AP and was with 2 day passes I had purchased G+ for a few weeks ago. But in Nov when just us AP went I had the same problem.  After about 15 minutes of trying the banner seemed to pop up.  My plan is when we go in Jan, not planning to buy G+ but when in park will show problem to guest services and see what they say. Of course at that time it will probably show, so wont be able to reproduce the problem.


----------



## winnieofpooh

Can you buy Genie+ and ILL for only some people in your party?

We have a package booked with four people, but one doesn’t like roller coasters so it’s not worth it in some parks (or ILL for coasters). Can we just book it for 3 of 4 people on our package?


----------



## scrappinginontario

winnieofpooh said:


> Can you buy Genie+ and ILL for only some people in your party?
> 
> We have a package booked with four people, but one doesn’t like roller coasters so it’s not worth it in some parks (or ILL for coasters). Can we just book it for 3 of 4 people on our package?


Yes.


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## Jennasis

The system is a failure for us. The app is so buggy that I've contemplated calling Terminix. It crashes. It won't load, it keeps defaulting to parks I'm not in or days other than today. If doesn't give you G+ or Ills times you think you're booking.

Lightning Lame indeed.


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## 20KLeagues

Jennasis said:


> The system is a failure for us. The app is so buggy that I've contemplated calling Terminix. It crashes. It won't load, it keeps defaulting to parks I'm not in or days other than today. If doesn't give you G+ or Ills times you think you're booking.
> 
> Lightning Lame indeed.



Even if everything worked as it should, Genie+ still stinks because:

1) you have to wake up before 7am EVERY day
2) you are on your phone A LOT
3) you cannot choose return times, conflicting with dining ressies and park hopping
4) cant pre book
5) no guarantee of being able to get on the headliners without waiting 2 hours while im paying $1k+ a night for a hotel room
6) its expensive
7) theres not enough inventory on busy days (only times we can go b kids in school)


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## Jennasis

20KLeagues said:


> Even if everything worked as it should, Genie+ still stinks because:
> 
> 1) you have to wake up before 7am EVERY day
> 2) you are on your phone A LOT
> 3) you cannot choose return times, conflicting with dining ressies and park hopping
> 4) cant pre book
> 5) no guarantee of being able to get on the headliners without waiting 2 hours while im paying $1k+ a night for a hotel room
> 6) its expensive
> 7) theres not enough inventory on busy days (only times we can go b kids in school)



Winner winner!


----------



## Jenkinsfanatic

So super interesting....I just got a survey from universal orlando and the entire survey was all about Disney fast pass+ and genie+/individual lightning lane.

I wonder if the other theme parks will try a similar business model or keep what they have.

I personally like universal systems better then the current disney money grab so I hope this business model doesn't become a theme park standard outside of Disney.


----------



## 20KLeagues

Jenkinsfanatic said:


> So super interesting....I just got a survey from universal orlando and the entire survey was all about Disney fast pass+ and genie+/individual lightning lane.
> 
> I wonder if the other theme parks will try a similar business model or keep what they have.
> 
> I personally like universal systems better then the current disney money grab so I hope this business model doesn't become a theme park standard outside of Disney.


Universal sent you a survey about Disney?  I'm not doubting you but that seems really strange....How would they know you went to Disney?   Can you put a copy of it in here?


----------



## 20KLeagues

20KLeagues said:


> Saw this on another post and these are my thoughts exactly about Genie+......
> 
> People will figure it out that this system doesnt work.....when its slower, it's 100% not necessary and when it's busy, it's 100% not worth it.....
> 
> People that book resort stays several times a year (like me and my family) want to know we are getting on the high profile rides.......I would never pay $1k a night for a deluxe room if there was a chance i couldnt get on FOP or ROTR without waiting over 2 hours (which happened to me this trip), while getting up at 6:50am, while having my face buried in my phone all day.....
> 
> Its just not a vacation if I have to do that and I wont pay for that and my guess is a lot of others wont either
> 
> my edit - I want to know if i book a trip to WDW and spend $15k after room, food, tickets, etc that I am guaranteed to get on the rides i want without waiting 2+ hours.....


Whats so funny?


----------



## AnnabelleTheTalkingTree

20KLeagues said:


> Saw this on another post and these are my thoughts exactly about Genie+......
> 
> People will figure it out that this system doesnt work.....when its slower, it's 100% not necessary and when it's busy, it's 100% not worth it.....
> 
> People that book resort stays several times a year (like me and my family) want to know we are getting on the high profile rides.......I would never pay $1k a night for a deluxe room if there was a chance i couldnt get on FOP or ROTR without waiting over 2 hours (which happened to me this trip), while getting up at 6:50am, while having my face buried in my phone all day.....
> 
> *Its just not a vacation if I have to do that and I wont pay for that and my guess is a lot of others wont either*
> 
> my edit - I want to know if i book a trip to WDW and spend $15k after room, food, tickets, etc that I am guaranteed to get on the rides i want without waiting 2+ hours.....



I *absolutely* agree with you. We don't typically go at super high crowd times, but wouldn't  you think this system should work BEST at those times? 

We typically stay longer, and we stay deluxe (by renting DVC, so while it does make it more affordable, it is still costly). And I would be willing to pay for Genie+/LL ..... *IF *it actually worked and made my vacation feel like a *VACATION*. It's not a question of shortening our stay or cutting expenses elsewhere to afford the additional fees - it's a question of paying more for something that is actually going to make my vacation feel more stressful and less like a vacation. We are not local. We pay to fly our family there and back. And we pay a crap ton of money to do it. Disney *IS *a vacation to my family, and for the amount of money we spend on that vacation, I expect it to feel like one. The fact is that with fastpass+, our longer stays were worth the money because it meant we would get our 3 fastpasses a day, plan them ahead of time, and take WDW at a pace that felt relaxing and fun for us, instead of a whirlwind of stress and frustration. I will give this a try - once - but as much as I love Disney, I'm not someone to keep coming back (and paying a premium) for an experience that doesn't meet my standards. I'm not so dedicated to Disney that I'll put up with anything they throw at me. That massive vacation budget that goes to Disney could inarguably go a lot farther pretty much anywhere else....


----------



## Jennasis

Today we paid for G+ and only got on 2 rides with it. We paid for RotR and had to ride standby on Slinky, star tours, MMRR.

We will never buy Genie+ again. We will continue to give our $$ to Touring Plans. Their wait times are much more accurate and we were able to avoid most crowds and have standby waits that were tolerable.


----------



## emilymad

AnnabelleTheTalkingTree said:


> I *absolutely* agree with you. We don't typically go at super high crowd times, but wouldn't  you think this system should work BEST at those times?
> 
> We typically stay longer, and we stay deluxe (by renting DVC, so while it does make it more affordable, it is still costly). And I would be willing to pay for Genie+/LL ..... *IF *it actually worked and made my vacation feel like a *VACATION*. It's not a question of shortening our stay or cutting expenses elsewhere to afford the additional fees - it's a question of paying more for something that is actually going to make my vacation feel more stressful and less like a vacation. We are not local. We pay to fly our family there and back. And we pay a crap ton of money to do it. Disney *IS *a vacation to my family, and for the amount of money we spend on that vacation, I expect it to feel like one. The fact is that with fastpass+, our longer stays were worth the money because it meant we would get our 3 fastpasses a day, plan them ahead of time, and take WDW at a pace that felt relaxing and fun for us, instead of a whirlwind of stress and frustration. I will give this a try - once - but as much as I love Disney, I'm not someone to keep coming back (and paying a premium) for an experience that doesn't meet my standards. I'm not so dedicated to Disney that I'll put up with anything they throw at me. That massive vacation budget that goes to Disney could inarguably go a lot farther pretty much anywhere else....



We just got back and this 1000%.  It is our first Disney trip in over a decade where I feel like I need another vacation after my vacation.


----------



## Prince John Robin Hood

From everything I've read about genie+ it seems like it's a failure and it's unlikely we try it.  I could see potentially giving in for ILL$ for a few rides though.  

Hopefully they listen to guest feedback and change Genie+.


----------



## ofcabbagesandkings

Jennasis said:


> Today we paid for G+ and only got on 2 rides with it. We paid for RotR and had to ride standby on Slinky, star tours, MMRR.
> 
> We will never buy Genie+ again. We will continue to give our $$ to Touring Plans. Their wait times are much more accurate and we were able to avoid most crowds and have standby waits that were tolerable.



All the other rides were sold out at HS on Genie+ by the time you had ridden those 2 rides? I wasn't impressed with Genie+ at AK on Sunday but I thought I might consider it again at HS and MK since there are more rides at those parks. But if this is going to be the trend, it really isn't worth the money. Seems like it's either save up for a VIP tour or try to find a "dead" time of year to go.  Or more likely, in my family's case, just avoid WDW altogether in favor of Universal.


----------



## Jenkinsfanatic

20KLeagues said:


> Universal sent you a survey about Disney?  I'm not doubting you but that seems really strange....How would they know you went to Disney?   Can you put a copy of it in here?



I didn't think to screenshot the survey itself (I think technically it's not allowed) but I know one I finished it I had to double check my email to make sure it came from universal.  It was odd for sure, but maybe they focused on disney because the first question I identified as a current universal pass holder and a former disney passholder.  They also asked about SeaWorld, but because I haven't been there in probably 20 years I didn't answer anything.

Either way, I'll be curious to see If universal makes any changes to their system in response to genie+.  I would hope not since when I used genie+ it left a bad taste in my mouth.  There's a bad feeling to know you are being nickel and died to death daily at 7 am on vacation and afterwards not being convinced you got your money's worth.


----------



## Jennasis

ofcabbagesandkings said:


> All the other rides were sold out at HS on Genie+ by the time you had ridden those 2 rides? I wasn't impressed with Genie+ at AK on Sunday but I thought I might consider it again at HS and MK since there are more rides at those parks. But if this is going to be the trend, it really isn't worth the money. Seems like it's either save up for a VIP tour or try to find a "dead" time of year to go.  Or more likely, in my family's case, just avoid WDW altogether in favor of Universal.



It was 1pm by the time my 2nd LL ride came due and the only stuff available after that was 5-8pm.  And for stupid stuff like the Frozen sing a long and muppets.


----------



## 20KLeagues

Jenkinsfanatic said:


> I didn't think to screenshot the survey itself (I think technically it's not allowed) but I know one I finished it I had to double check my email to make sure it came from universal.  It was odd for sure, but maybe they focused on disney because the first question I identified as a current universal pass holder and a former disney passholder.  They also asked about SeaWorld, but because I haven't been there in probably 20 years I didn't answer anything.
> 
> Either way, I'll be curious to see If universal makes any changes to their system in response to genie+.  I would hope not since when I used genie+ it left a bad taste in my mouth.  There's a bad feeling to know you are being nickel and died to death daily at 7 am on vacation and afterwards not being convinced you got your money's worth.


Look what i found....this is crazy

https://insidethemagic.net/2021/12/universal-annual-passholders-disney-genie-plus-ab1/


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## 20KLeagues

20KLeagues said:


> Look what i found....this is crazy
> 
> https://insidethemagic.net/2021/12/universal-annual-passholders-disney-genie-plus-ab1/


----------



## scrappinginontario

I see the survey as a great idea on Universal's part.  What are guests feeling?  Did they like/dislike the system?

The bigger question and concern I have is, HOW did they know WHO to survey???


----------



## jlundeen

scrappinginontario said:


> I see the survey as a great idea on Universal's part.  What are guests feeling?  Did they like/dislike the system?
> 
> *The bigger question and concern I have is, HOW did they know WHO to survey*???


Wasn't it their own AP holders?  Not sure that's a true survey pool for all Disney Genie users.


----------



## 20KLeagues

scrappinginontario said:


> I see the survey as a great idea on Universal's part.  What are guests feeling?  Did they like/dislike the system?
> 
> The bigger question and concern I have is, HOW did they know WHO to survey???


That was my main question too, how did the identify the people to survey?

I have not seen any survey results directly (obviously), but anecdotally, i have read numerous blogs/publications/stories since Genie+/ILL inception and I have actually been to all 4 parks during Thanksgiving week and few, if any at all, have been positive (including mine....I despise Genie+)


----------



## scrappinginontario

jlundeen said:


> Wasn't it their own AP holders?  Not sure that's a true survey pool for all Disney Genie users.


 Rereading the article, it was but IMHO how many UO APs will have actually been to a Disney park since Genie+ was introduced?  Seems like their results might be swayed by those who have read but not actually been to a park.  I might be wrong but, that's my concern.


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## Newbie500

Are Universal passholders asked if they also have Disney AP?


----------



## Pluto1976




----------



## jlundeen

Pluto1976 said:


> View attachment 628918


I suspect that will be the #1 answer....


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## mom2rtk

20KLeagues said:


> View attachment 628908


Oh geez. Disney already broke WDW. Let's hope they don't break Universal as well.


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## MrBellatrixLestrange

jlundeen said:


> I suspect that will be the #1 answer....


 The correct answer often is…


----------



## disneyseniors

jlundeen said:


> Wasn't it their own AP holders?  Not sure that's a true survey pool for all Disney Genie users.



I know for a fact that "it wasn't just for AP holders".  I am definitely not their target due to our ages and living out of state.  But I have done many surveys for Universal.  So that is not true.  It is not "fixed for AP's only, LOL.
I like their surveys because they have all the answers you could think of to choose from, even if it makes them look bad in some way.  Disney's surveys don't seem to allow you to answer in a negative way; they only have leading answers to pick from that shows them in a good light.  
BTW, you sign a confidentiality form before taking the surveys, and are not supposed to divulge any of it.  I take that seriously.


----------



## ofcabbagesandkings

I would honestly rather Universal raise their room rates or ticket prices than change to the Genie+ system. It's terrible, and the one thing I'm looking forward to for our upcoming Universal trip is the included Express pass with our room and not having to be at the mercy of an app all day, just being able to enter Express lines when we feel like it. Even if Universal's Express lines are sometimes longer, it's better to at least be able to choose for yourself rather than having the app make the choice of when you can ride, and having to be on your phone all day. If this trip goes well our future theme park vacation dollars will all go to Universal. If they change to a Genie+ like system, ugh. Maybe we'll be done with theme parks for good.


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## roctavia

I'm sure they are liking all of the responses that make Genie + sound crappy and unpopular (which I think it is both of those things) I also think WDW and Universal are just so different that while express pass works great there, something similar wouldn't work well at disney due to just too many people coming to disney/the size of the resorts etc. compared to Universal and something like Genie+ wouldn't be overly useful for people at universal.... But they are probably looking at ways to better advertise their express pass and why it's better than what Disney offers.


----------



## MrBellatrixLestrange

roctavia said:


> I'm sure they are liking all of the responses that make Genie + sound crappy and unpopular (which I think it is both of those things) I also think WDW and Universal are just so different that while express pass works great there, something similar wouldn't work well at disney due to just too many people coming to disney/the size of the resorts etc. compared to Universal and something like Genie+ wouldn't be overly useful for people at universal.... But they are probably looking at ways to better advertise their express pass and why it's better than what Disney offers.


Yeah, I get the sense they probably feel like they're making some inroads and aren't looking to change things up dramatically (at least that's my hope).  It may be, however, that when Epic Universe opens their calculations may change so they're looking at options that might mean the end of the Express Pass.  I also prefer their current approach but realize everything eventually changes.


----------



## 20KLeagues

roctavia said:


> I'm sure they are liking all of the responses that make Genie + sound crappy and unpopular (which I think it is both of those things) I also think WDW and Universal are just so different that while express pass works great there, something similar wouldn't work well at disney due to just too many people coming to disney/the size of the resorts etc. compared to Universal and something like Genie+ wouldn't be overly useful for people at universal.... But they are probably looking at ways to better advertise their express pass and why it's better than what Disney offers.


Disney needs an "ride any time" option........


----------



## shawthorne44

20KLeagues said:


> Disney needs an "ride any time" option........



Except at MK, they don't have the ride density to allow that.   Disney world doesn't really have the ride density at the other three parks for any sort of skip-the-line option.  Can you imagine having one of those at AK?    You'd be bored silly in two hours.      

Look at the three non-MK parks and count the number of Fast Pass Worthy attractions.   Do the same at Universal.   Universal's will be a bigger number and both parks can be treated as one for express pass purposes since it so quick to change parks, like Disney Land.  

Although, even then, Disney World does have a ride anytime option, the VIP tours, but even then too many of those would break the parks.


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## scrappinginontario

We haven't used Genie+ yet and I'll say, I'm on the fence about purchasing it for a few days for our trip next month.

Question for those who have purchased it.  If there was the option to select a return time (similar to FP+) as opposed to having to choose the next available time, would it change your impression of Genie+?

I guess what I'm struggling with as an outsider who has yet to use it is, what is causing people to be on their phones so much more than with FP+?  It's a common complaint I'm hearing but I'm trying to figure out what about Genie+ makes this difference?  I found with FP+ I was often on my phone, looking for our next FP so am not understanding what the difference is now.

Thanks to anyone who is willing to help me understand better!


----------



## 20KLeagues

shawthorne44 said:


> Except at MK, they don't have the ride density to allow that.   Disney world doesn't really have the ride density at the other three parks for any sort of skip-the-line option.  Can you imagine having one of those at AK?    You'd be bored silly in two hours.
> 
> Look at the three non-MK parks and count the number of Fast Pass Worthy attractions.   Do the same at Universal.   Universal's will be a bigger number and both parks can be treated as one for express pass purposes since it so quick to change parks, like Disney Land.
> 
> Although, even then, Disney World does have a ride anytime option, the VIP tours, but even then too many of those would break the parks.


All good points.......

But as currently constituted, WDW is broken


Genie+/ILL is god awful


----------



## g-dad66

scrappinginontario said:


> We haven't used Genie+ yet and I'll say, I'm on the fence about purchasing it for a few days for our trip next month.
> 
> Question for those who have purchased it.  If there was the option to select a return time (similar to FP+) as opposed to having to choose the next available time, would it change your impression of Genie+?
> 
> I guess what I'm struggling with as an outsider who has yet to use it is, what is causing people to be on their phones so much more than with FP+?  It's a common complaint I'm hearing but I'm trying to figure out what about Genie+ makes this difference?  I found with FP+ I was often on my phone, looking for our next FP so am not understanding what the difference is now.
> 
> Thanks to anyone who is willing to help me understand better!




I don't think being able to select return time would make it much better, because the choices would all still be after the next available time.  But then we never have any ADRs (so we don't have to worry about conflicting times).

I was on my phone more than with FP+ because with FP+ we usually had our three lined up, did standby early in the morning, shows in the afternoon, and rarely tried to get a fourth FP+.  But I don't feel like I was on my phone all that much with either of them.

Those aren't my gripes about G+.  My major complaint is how much more expensive it makes the trip in order to avoid spending more time in line than we want.  Our solution to that will be fewer trips and shorter trips.


----------



## Jennasis

You can make another G+ Lightning lane selection after you scan in for the one you currently have, right?

And if it's, say 2pm and you make your next selection for 7pm, can you make another selection at 4pm (two hours after you scheduled your last)?? I'm confused. Is that the "loophole" they closed?


----------



## GBRforWDW

You can do both of those things, depending on what time your LL is for. 

The loophole was if you scheduled a LL that overlapped the 2 hour window, you could wait for the 2 hour mark, select a LL pass, then go on your ride that you waited for, and immediately after scanning in, grab another LL.

Ex 7am - grab first LL for 1030-1130, park opens at 9.
11:01am (2 hours after park opening) - grab second LL.
11:02am - get in line for first LL
11:05am - finish scanning into ride with 2 taps points
11:06 - grab third LL

It's now based on last LL selection.  Since you haven't gone to the ride you select at 11:01, you're not eligible for another LL until you use that 11:01 pass by scanning into that ride/show or it's 1:01pm


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## Jennasis

I booked a 6:40 LL for Peter Pan at 2pm.  Had dinner and came back to the park at 6pm. I tried to make another LL selection at 6pm but it wouldn't let me.  Said I wasn't eligible to make another one yet...it was 4 hours since I made that Peter Pan LL. So why wouldn't ot let me make another?


----------



## princesswahooey

scrappinginontario said:


> Rereading the article, it was but IMHO how many UO APs will have actually been to a Disney park since Genie+ was introduced?  Seems like their results might be swayed by those who have read but not actually been to a park.  I might be wrong but, that's my concern.


If you notice, though, the survey only asked about PERCEPTION of Genie+, like "why do you think Disney implemented it." There were no questions about actual usage. The only questions about usage were for FP+, which they can probably safely assume that APs might have been to Disney in the last 10 years.  Also someone said they were a past Dusney AP holder, so could have been targeted that way.


----------



## princesswahooey

Jennasis said:


> I booked a 6:40 LL for Peter Pan at 2pm.  Had dinner and came back to the park at 6pm. I tried to make another LL selection at 6pm but it wouldn't let me.  Said I wasn't eligible to make another one yet...it was 4 hours since I made that Peter Pan LL. So why wouldn't ot let me make another?


That doesn't seem right.  By all accounts, you should if you haven't made any others since 2.


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## Jennasis

princesswahooey said:


> That doesn't seem right.  By all accounts, you should if you haven't made any others since 2.



Yep. That's what I thought. It said it was too soon. And we were ineligible. But frankly I am.not surprised....the IT is abyssmal.


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## princesswahooey

Jennasis said:


> Yep. That's what I thought. It said it was too soon. And we were ineligible. But frankly I am.not surprised....the IT is abyssmal.


I know they were having IT problems yesterday with the Amazon server outage. Was this yesterday? Or maybe just residual glitches?


----------



## Jennasis

princesswahooey said:


> I know they were having IT problems yesterday with the Amazon server outage. Was this yesterday? Or maybe just residual glitches?


This was today.


----------



## Figment1990

Jennasis said:


> I booked a 6:40 LL for Peter Pan at 2pm.  Had dinner and came back to the park at 6pm. I tried to make another LL selection at 6pm but it wouldn't let me.  Said I wasn't eligible to make another one yet...it was 4 hours since I made that Peter Pan LL. So why wouldn't ot let me make another?


i would have thought you could make another at 6 also. Actually you should ave been able to make another anytime after 4pm. I wish you could have gotten an answer from the blue umbrellas about that. What time did it say you were eligible to make it When you tried to make one? Did you take a screen shot of that by chance?


----------



## Jennasis

Figment1990 said:


> i would have thought you could make another at 6 also. Actually you should ave been able to make another anytime after 4pm. I wish you could have gotten an answer from the blue umbrellas about that. What time did it say you were eligible to make it When you tried to make one? Did you take a screen shot of that by chance?



I didn't look to see what time we were eligible. We were busy fighting our way through the redonkulous crowd trying ro get to Peter Pan for our 6:40 LL. I tried again after we scanned the first tap point at PP and no dice. It worked after I scanned the 2nd tap point.

I have already visited the blue shirts in the park and guest relations at DS and MK more times on this one trip than I have in my previous 40 years of visits combined. I was not wasting any more time.

I am fed up with Disney right now....and Genie can kiss my grits.


----------



## Disneylover99

scrappinginontario said:


> I guess what I'm struggling with as an outsider who has yet to use it is, what is causing people to be on their phones so much more than with FP+?  It's a common complaint I'm hearing but I'm trying to figure out what about Genie+ makes this difference?  I found with FP+ I was often on my phone, looking for our next FP so am not understanding what the difference is now.


Everyone could book 3 fp’s in advance and many people booked them for mid afternoon or the evening. Lots of people were content with 3 fp’s and so they weren’t on their phone at all. Even the fp super users who got as many fp’s as they could didn’t need to start looking until late morning/early afternoon for a fourth fp. Now everyone is up at 7am trying to get their money’s worth.


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## scrappinginontario

Disneylover99 said:


> Everyone could book 3 fp’s in advance and many people booked them for mid afternoon or the evening. Lots of people were content with 3 fp’s and so they weren’t on their phone at all. Even the fp super users who got as many fp’s as they could didn’t need to start looking until late morning/early afternoon for a fourth fp. Now everyone is up at 7am trying to get their money’s worth.


I have been to Disney more than 20 times in the past 10 years so I am well familiar with FP+ and how it worked.

What I’m trying to figure out is why people are spending all day in their phones? That was my question, not why people liked FP better. I liked FP too but am trying to understand how other than having 2 more FPs booked when I arrive (assuming I have 1 can’t book a LL  at 7AM), what drives the need to be on a phone all day?

I will say we were normally 8-10FP+ people on an average MK day so I felt I spent time on my phone securing those.


----------



## PepperjackDragon

scrappinginontario said:


> I have been to Disney more than 20 times in the past 10 years so I am well familiar with FP+ and how it worked.
> 
> What I’m trying to figure out is why people are spending all day in their phones? That was my question, not why people liked FP better. I liked FP too but am trying to understand how other than having 2 more FPs booked when I arrive (assuming I have 1 can’t book a LL  at 7AM), what drives the need to be on a phone all day?
> 
> I will say we were normally 8-10FP+ people on an average MK day so I felt I spent time on my phone securing those.


It may not make a big difference for you. Prior to closing the loophole it took a lot of Time on the phone because you were constantly searching for a LL while walking to one, since they were stacked. Now that they have fixed that you would really only need to do it because LL are sold out and you are waiting for a better time to show up. It’s possible that more people are actively engaged in searching during the day at the park, now that they are paying for the service, which may make it more difficult to snag preferable times and thus require more time refreshing? Honestly, if one is actually spending a lot of time on the phone it can only mean one of two things: 1: there is nothing available without constant refreshing. 2: it is working out really well and you are constantly booking another LL.

I suspect the heavy phone usage is mostly outdated prior to the loophole fix combined with people fussing about 7am.


----------



## cjlong88

scrappinginontario said:


> I have been to Disney more than 20 times in the past 10 years so I am well familiar with FP+ and how it worked.
> 
> What I’m trying to figure out is why people are spending all day in their phones? That was my question, not why people liked FP better. I liked FP too but am trying to understand how other than having 2 more FPs booked when I arrive (assuming I have 1 can’t book a LL  at 7AM), what drives the need to be on a phone all day?
> 
> I will say we were normally 8-10FP+ people on an average MK day so I felt I spent time on my phone securing those.



Personally we spent significantly less time on our phones during the two days we used Genie+ compared to FP. For every person complaining about phone usage on here there are likely several others that are using their phones the same amount or less — we are just less likely to say something because we humans tend to be more vocal when we are upset rather than when we are happy. Honestly I think the biggest issue for people is that before it was free and now it’s not. So perhaps people are paying more attention to their phone usage because now it’s costing them $$.

We can choose to be on our phones as much or as little as we want. Just like how LL’s are limited right now due to crowds (it’s the holidays) we seem to quickly we forget that FP’s we’re the same, and I vividly remember Christmas week spending all day on my phone refreshing until something decent would pop up. But then again that was free, so perhaps people were more likely to just complain about the lack of availability only. Now we are paying and there will still be limited availability due to the sheer number of people there during the holidays. So now that amount of time spent on our phones and getting nothing is worse because it feels like a waste of time AND money.

I think everyone is going to have wildly different experiences until they settle on a final G+ system and stop tweaking it. And because of that we won’t really be able to maximize the system and figure out how to systematically work it in our favor to get our perceived money’s worth.


----------



## Disneylover99

scrappinginontario said:


> I have been to Disney more than 20 times in the past 10 years so I am well familiar with FP+ and how it worked.
> 
> What I’m trying to figure out is why people are spending all day in their phones? That was my question, not why people liked FP better. I liked FP too but am trying to understand how other than having 2 more FPs booked when I arrive (assuming I have 1 can’t book a LL  at 7AM), what drives the need to be on a phone all day?
> 
> I will say we were normally 8-10FP+ people on an average MK day so I felt I spent time on my phone securing those.


My answer has nothing to do with whether or not people liked fp better. I’m just saying when you charge for a service like this, all/most users will naturally feel compelled to get their money’s worth, leading to many users tied to their phones to  see what else they can get. Lots of these Genie users now, may be people who were not tied to their phones at all during FP times.

If you normally got  8-10 FP ‘s at the MK anyway, phone usage probably won’t make a difference to you. Maybe you’ll use it less.


----------



## Disneylover99

cjlong88 said:


> We can choose to be on our phones as much or as little as we want. Just like how LL’s are limited right now due to crowds (it’s the holidays) we seem to quickly we forget that FP’s we’re the same, and I vividly remember Christmas week spending all day on my phone refreshing until something decent would pop up. But then again that was free, so perhaps people were more likely to just complain about the lack of availability only. Now we are paying and there will still be limited availability due to the sheer number of people there during the holidays. So now that amount of time spent on our phones and getting nothing is worse because it feels like a waste of time AND money.



People didn’t even complain about lack of fp availability Christmas week. Many people didn’t even try for a fourth fp because they assumed there was no availability, but they made peace with this ahead of time because they had their 3 fp’s.

Now the mindset has shifted to omg, we’re going Xmas week! We need to buy Genie or we won’t be able to ride anything! So everyone buys it, making it basically worthless. It makes people grumbly.


----------



## Pluto1976

scrappinginontario said:


> We haven't used Genie+ yet and I'll say, I'm on the fence about purchasing it for a few days for our trip next month.
> 
> Question for those who have purchased it.  If there was the option to select a return time (similar to FP+) as opposed to having to choose the next available time, would it change your impression of Genie+?
> 
> I guess what I'm struggling with as an outsider who has yet to use it is, what is causing people to be on their phones so much more than with FP+?  It's a common complaint I'm hearing but I'm trying to figure out what about Genie+ makes this difference?  I found with FP+ I was often on my phone, looking for our next FP so am not understanding what the difference is now.
> 
> Thanks to anyone who is willing to help me understand better!



Perhaps try Genie + for 1-day of the trip and see if it matches with your family's touring style.  If it does, wonderful and buy it again.  If it does not, you are out $30 or more dollars and you have the experience to know it does not suit you and no more thinking about it in the future (plus you can complain about it - LOL).  

That being said, it did NOT work great for us and we much prefer FP+ because we could choose our timeframes for the rides we wanted.  The biggest CON we saw was the return times on Genie + were much later in the day for the more popular rides and we do not want to spend all day in the park waiting for a return time.

As for people and smartphones, no idea if Genie + is causing more people to be on them.  What I do believe is a significant part of our population have lost the ability to be present and engaged with the people around them because of these "smart" devices.  Add to that the apps on them are designed to be addictive and grab the user's attention which means more time for them staring at the phone.  

Best of luck with your decision on Genie +!


----------



## scrappinginontario

Pluto1976 said:


> Perhaps try Genie + for 1-day of the trip and see if it matches with your family's touring style.  If it does, wonderful and buy it again.  If it does not, you are out $30 or more dollars and you have the experience to know it does not suit you and no more thinking about it in the future (plus you can complain about it - LOL).
> 
> That being said, it did NOT work great for us and we much prefer FP+ because we could choose our timeframes for the rides we wanted.  The biggest CON we saw was the return times on Genie + were much later in the day for the more popular rides and we do not want to spend all day in the park waiting for a return time.
> 
> As for people and smartphones, no idea if Genie + is causing more people to be on them.  What I do believe is a significant part of our population have lost the ability to be present and engaged with the people around them because of these "smart" devices.  Add to that the apps on them are designed to be addictive and grab the user's attention which means more time for them staring at the phone.
> 
> Best of luck with your decision on Genie +!


This is a great suggestion!  Our first day in the park is MK on a Sunday in late January so I was planning on doing what you suggest and buying it that day and trying it out.  It will be our first time in a park in 2 1/2 years so we'll be looking forward to doing as much as we can and excited to get going so 7AM won't be a problem.

I'll try it for a day or 2 at the MK and possibly DHS and see how it goes.  Will also depend on what people are experiencing the week before we arrive.

Looking at our plans I think I'm going to cancel our Park Hoppers for this trip and budget that money for G+ and ILL$ for RotR.  Think we'll come out ahead financially if it's a one and done for us with G+.  I think we may hit that sweet spot of G+ being that the parks aren't supposed to be too busy or quiet.


----------



## Jrb1979

Pluto1976 said:


> Perhaps try Genie + for 1-day of the trip and see if it matches with your family's touring style.  If it does, wonderful and buy it again.  If it does not, you are out $30 or more dollars and you have the experience to know it does not suit you and no more thinking about it in the future (plus you can complain about it - LOL).
> 
> That being said, it did NOT work great for us and we much prefer FP+ because we could choose our timeframes for the rides we wanted.  The biggest CON we saw was the return times on Genie + were much later in the day for the more popular rides and we do not want to spend all day in the park waiting for a return time.
> 
> As for people and smartphones, no idea if Genie + is causing more people to be on them.  What I do believe is a significant part of our population have lost the ability to be present and engaged with the people around them because of these "smart" devices.  Add to that the apps on them are designed to be addictive and grab the user's attention which means more time for them staring at the phone.
> 
> Best of luck with your decision on Genie +!


You CON is what Disney wants. They want you to be in the parks from open to close. Gone are the days of mid day breaks and planning.


----------



## jlundeen

I think a poster above hit the nail on the head as to why some folks are spending more time looking at their phones...  you only can see the "next available" time for attractions, rather than a time that may work better for you.  If you are trying to schedule around ADRs or only plan to spend a certain amount of time in one park (park hopping for example) you may spend more time searching for times that fit your needs.  

Personally I think G+ and ILLs are very limited from a convenience stand point, and truly think being able to plan and schedule attractions ahead of time, as well as day-of, for specific times if a far better method.  Why not just charge for a system that worked rather than try to reinvent the whole thing (with questionable success).


----------



## scrappinginontario

jlundeen said:


> I think a poster above hit the nail on the head as to why some folks are spending more time looking at their phones...  you only can see the "next available" time for attractions, rather than a time that may work better for you.  If you are trying to schedule around ADRs or only plan to spend a certain amount of time in one park (park hopping for example) you may spend more time searching for times that fit your needs.
> 
> Personally I think G+ and ILLs are very limited from a convenience stand point, and truly think being able to plan and schedule attractions ahead of time, as well as day-of, for specific times if a far better method.  Why not just charge for a system that worked rather than try to reinvent the whole thing (with questionable success).


You're quite right!  I think one small change that Disney could make that I believe would greatly improve guest's outlook on Genie+ would be to allow guests to select their return time, similar to how they did with FP+.  To me (and I believe others) this would be a game changer and hopefully help people feel better about it.  (Well, as good as we can feel about now paying for something we used to get for free!)


----------



## Miffy

scrappinginontario said:


> You're quite right!  I think one small change that Disney could make that I believe would greatly improve guest's outlook on Genie+ would be to allow guests to select their return time, similar to how they did with FP+.  To me (and I believe others) this would be a game changer and hopefully help people feel better about it.  (Well, as good as we can feel about now paying for something we used to get for free!)


I agree. But I also think that if you could make at least a couple of selections ahead of time--not the day of--it would make G+ much more attractive, at least to me!


----------



## leeniewdw

scrappinginontario said:


> What I’m trying to figure out is why people are spending all day in their phones? That was my question, not why people liked FP better. I liked FP too but am trying to understand how other than having 2 more FPs booked when I arrive (assuming I have 1 can’t book a LL  at 7AM), what drives the need to be on a phone all day?



For us, I wouldn't describe it as "being on my phone all day", but I did have to set phone alarms to remind me to book the next LL and since we went to 2 diff parks with diff opening hours, I had to set up a different set of alarms each day (not a big deal but still).   We used afternoon/evening only LLs for day 1 so only had to "work" for our final LL because it (RnRC) was bouncing around as sold out/late times when it came time to book at 3pm.    

The next day, we did AK/EP and due to EP's ride availability, we couldn't even use the times they were offering when we started booking there at 10am.   So I had to wait, my alarms were no longer valid (because I was booking at, say, 10:30am which made my next time 12:30pm, not 12pm).   HOWEVER, it was a minor inconvenience because I already knew I could get the rides I wanted, I just needed the return times to move into my desired window.  That would be a vastly different experience than refreshing for ANY time/availability.


----------



## Jrb1979

jlundeen said:


> I think a poster above hit the nail on the head as to why some folks are spending more time looking at their phones...  you only can see the "next available" time for attractions, rather than a time that may work better for you.  If you are trying to schedule around ADRs or only plan to spend a certain amount of time in one park (park hopping for example) you may spend more time searching for times that fit your needs.
> 
> Personally I think G+ and ILLs are very limited from a convenience stand point, and truly think being able to plan and schedule attractions ahead of time, as well as day-of, for specific times if a far better method.  Why not just charge for a system that worked rather than try to reinvent the whole thing (with questionable success).


FP+ was broken just as Genie+ is broken. Disney is the only park that uses a skip the line system to control crowds. 
The problem with FP+ and Genie+ is there isn't enough attractions for it to work. The only way to fix it is to limit how many people can buy Genie+, either by raising the price or only sell so many a day. 



Miffy said:


> I agree. But I also think that if you could make at least a couple of selections ahead of time--not the day of--it would make G+ much more attractive, at least to me!


That wouldn't work cause it would severely limit the amount of LL available day off. If they  did that there probably would be next no LL available for people day of.


----------



## leeniewdw

leeniewdw said:


> For us, I wouldn't describe it as "being on my phone all day", but I did have to set phone alarms to remind me to book the next LL and since we went to 2 diff parks with diff opening hours, I had to set up a different set of alarms each day (not a big deal but still).   We used afternoon/evening only LLs for day 1 so only had to "work" for our final LL because it (RnRC) was bouncing around as sold out/late times when it came time to book at 3pm.
> 
> The next day, we did AK/EP and due to EP's ride availability, we couldn't even use the times they were offering when we started booking there at 10am.   So I had to wait, my alarms were no longer valid (because I was booking at, say, 10:30am which made my next time 12:30pm, not 12pm).   HOWEVER, it was a minor inconvenience because I already knew I could get the rides I wanted, I just needed the return times to move into my desired window.  That would be a vastly different experience than refreshing for ANY time/availability.



Quoting myself because I saw something in a diff thread that reminded me.  Even though we had 3 LLs and 2 ILL$ set up on our arrival at DHS, I also couldn't really commit the times to memory and kept having to refer to my phone to check on timeframes.  Since you don't have control over what's offered for LLs, you grab what "works" so I kept having to double check.  Now I KNOW this is a great 'problem' to have since we had so much already booked.   I just found I had to look at my phone and say "we have to to rides X and Y by time Z" so we knew if we had to hustle or if we had time to take a break to eat/drink/restroom.    Then I'd do that again a little later.


----------



## jlundeen

and also, one downside of "looking at your phone all day" or even just a bit more than normal, I found that the new 50th app really eats your phone battery much faster than the old one.  Maybe just because I have an older Android phone, but I was having to recharge a lot more often.


----------



## Miffy

Jrb1979 said:


> FP+ was broken just as Genie+ is broken. Disney is the only park that uses a skip the line system to control crowds.
> The problem with FP+ and Genie+ is there isn't enough attractions for it to work. The only way to fix it is to limit how many people can buy Genie+, either by raising the price or only sell so many a day.
> 
> 
> That wouldn't work cause it would severely limit the amount of LL available day off. If they  did that there probably would be next no LL available for people day of.


And yet severely limiting availability is one of your suggestions.

But, besides that, FP+ could be booked 60 days in advance and that limited the ability to get them day of, yet it didn't eliminate the possibility of getting them. I don't really see how G+, if one could book it in advance for, say 3 attractions (a la FP+), would be any different.


----------



## jlundeen

another thing that could improve the overall process is the ability to MODIFY, or change who the G+/ILL is assigned to.  That would be a game changer.


----------



## 20KLeagues

scrappinginontario said:


> You're quite right!  I think one small change that Disney could make that I believe would greatly improve guest's outlook on Genie+ would be to allow guests to select their return time, similar to how they did with FP+.  To me (and I believe others) this would be a game changer and hopefully help people feel better about it.  (Well, as good as we can feel about now paying for something we used to get for free!)



I do think that selecting returns times would help a ton........That is one of the "Fatal Flaws" as I call them with Genie+/ILL

You have to have your phone in your face all day for several reasons.  Prior with FP+, you only had to do it once for your entire trip........Now you need to do it for every ride, every day.  

We went Thanksgiving week.........We had several problems being on our phone all day:

1) booked SDD as my first Genie+ selection and it gave me 6:30pm.....we had Topolinos reservation for that time so I was constantly refreshing trying to get another time

2) at 11am the only thing left at HS was TSMM (no Tot, RnR, MSFR) and my kids wanted to rides those so we were constantly refreshing to see if people dropped them so we could book them

3) we were park hopping, doing AK in the am and Epcot at night......We tried to buy FOP but got the dreaded email code error and got shut out since it sold out in less than 30 seconds.......We booked our first Genie+ for Epcot in the afternoon (because we were going to buy ILL in AK and do the rest standby)........We were not going to Epcot until 6pm (it was deluxe guests extra hours night so we were going to go 6pm-midnight)....Only problem is, at 7am Tesat Track return times were 2pm so i had to constantly refresh for over an hour until a time came up for after 6pm.......same problem happened when I went to book my second Genie+ with Soarin.......Only time available were when we had Via Napoli reservation so I had to constantly refresh to find a later time

4) When in MK, we were constantly checking what returns times were and if rides were close to sold out because we were debating buying ILL for 7D and Space b the lines were so long and wanted to have some rides as walk ons 

There are more situations and I will update my post but those are the first 3 days of my trip


----------



## 20KLeagues

Other than being too expensive and Disney taking advantage of their loyal customers, I think the things with Genie+ that need to change are:

1) eliminate having to get up pre 7am EVERY day
2) Stop having to have to be on your phone all day
3) Pick return times to avoid park hopping/dining overlaps
4) ability to pre book in some way/shape/form
5) change a Genie+ selection without having to cancel first
6) limit availability to avoid 30+ minute ILL lines
7) Add different "drops" throughout the day so there is inventory available in the afternoon


----------



## denman007

20KLeagues said:


> Other than being too expensive and Disney taking advantage of their loyal customers, I think the things with Genie+ that need to change are:
> 
> 1) eliminate having to get up pre 7am EVERY day
> 2) Stop having to have to be on your phone all day
> 3) Pick return times to avoid park hopping/dining overlaps
> 4) ability to pre book in some way/shape/form
> 5) change a Genie+ selection without having to cancel first
> 6) limit availability to avoid 30+ minute ILL lines
> 7) Add different "drops" throughout the day so there is inventory available in the afternoon


How about hold the stated time until you completed the transaction. (2 mins?) Maybe that's more for ILL.

Actually #3 takes care of that issue. duh


----------



## aviva5675

Used it at HS. By the time our 530 ROR came around it had broken down. We were leaving park right after. A fail. Was with someone who want to do all the Star Wars. It was fairly ok otherwise, but the stress of it was horrible, for days leading up to the visit.


----------



## 20KLeagues

denman007 said:


> How about hold the stated time until you completed the transaction. (2 mins?) Maybe that's more for ILL.
> 
> Actually #3 takes care of that issue. duh


No i agree.....you are right......when it gives you 9:40am return time and by the time you process it and its 5:50pm then thats a problem....total joke


----------



## roctavia

20KLeagues said:


> Other than being too expensive and Disney taking advantage of their loyal customers, I think the things with Genie+ that need to change are:
> 
> 1) eliminate having to get up pre 7am EVERY day
> 2) Stop having to have to be on your phone all day
> 3) Pick return times to avoid park hopping/dining overlaps
> 4) ability to pre book in some way/shape/form
> 5) change a Genie+ selection without having to cancel first
> 6) limit availability to avoid 30+ minute ILL lines
> 7) Add different "drops" throughout the day so there is inventory available in the afternoon




Maybe they can makes those changes when they upgrade to Genie ++, only for $30 per person per day!!!

It would still be annoying to pay for, but way better then how Genie + currently seems to work.


----------



## Miffy

roctavia said:


> Maybe they can makes those changes when they upgrade to Genie ++, only for $30 per person per day!!!
> 
> It would still be annoying to pay for, but way better then how Genie + currently seems to work.


It's almost as though they're frustrating us so that we'll be willing to pay more for a product that would be better.


----------



## DeeCee735

Jennasis said:


> Today we paid for G+ and only got on 2 rides with it. We paid for RotR and had to ride standby on Slinky, star tours, MMRR.
> 
> We will never buy Genie+ again. We will continue to give our $$ to Touring Plans. Their wait times are much more accurate and we were able to avoid most crowds and have standby waits that were tolerable.


We’ll be using a touring company when the grandkids come….all of a sudden my adult kids want to come in 2023! When it’s just me and my husband (like now) very little parks and not using Genie at all


----------



## iloveftwilderness

20KLeagues said:


> Other than being too expensive and Disney taking advantage of their loyal customers, I think the things with Genie+ that need to change are:
> 
> 1) eliminate having to get up pre 7am EVERY day
> 2) Stop having to have to be on your phone all day
> 3) Pick return times to avoid park hopping/dining overlaps
> 4) ability to pre book in some way/shape/form
> 5) change a Genie+ selection without having to cancel first
> 6) limit availability to avoid 30+ minute ILL lines
> 7) Add different "drops" throughout the day so there is inventory available in the afternoon


Great ideas!!!!! Someone from Disney take note!


----------



## Grasshopper2016

scrappinginontario said:


> I think one small change that Disney could make that I believe would greatly improve guest's outlook on Genie+ would be to allow guests to select their return time, similar to how they did with FP+. To me (and I believe others) this would be a game changer and hopefully help people feel better about it.


Yes and no, in my opinion.  If this was the only tweak they made, it wouldn't change all that much.  The available return times would start with the time you get now (first available) and then go later from there.  So the problem of only getting a couple of rides--especially on busy days--and not being able to schedule more than one ride (if any) at mid-day would persist.  And, just like is currently happening, by the time you would actually click through on a return time that is closer to the early end of the range of available time slots, it would probably be gone and you would get stuck with a later one anyway.  I think that there needs to be some ability to select in advance (at least a day in advance, if they don't want to go back to 30 or 60 days and deal with all of the gripes about that).  And not at the crack of dawn (or, if at the crack of dawn, only once per trip, not everyday).  And there needs to be some ability to schedule multiple LLs in advance.  And they need to greatly reduce sales of G+ (which, sadly, means increasing prices).  Unless and until Disney increases ride capacity in a meaningful way, this is the best that they could do.  It would basically just be a slightly modified version of Fastpass+, but with a significant charge attached.


----------



## ZeeWP

There is an issue of "framing" happening, too. If you are buying G+ ONLY and comparing it to FP+, as in you should get your top 3 G+ attractions every day, then yes, it's not working anywhere near as well.

BUT that's not how Disney views this. They are seeing it your "3 ahead of time FP+" is equivalent to the two ILL$ rides and your first G+ attraction. So you are essentially paying ~40 bucks to get something kinda like F+. 

But there are two problems to this:
1) You aren't booking the 3 ahead of time so it makes it hard to plan in a few hours. For Pantsers, that works great, cause they don't want to plan anyways. but for Planners, that sucks cause it only gives us a few hours to tweak our touring plans. 

2) Disney is deciding what your top 2 attractions are, and you get to choose the third. So for people who hate Star Wars, they may just feel justified to spend ILL$ MMRR and then G+ for SDD. Maybe they'll be lucky and get Tower of Terror or Rock and roll Roller Coaster. but maybe not. 

This goes back to Disney trying to micromanage their experience for people. I care less about the money grabbing than I do about them trying to tell me what is worth it to me or not. I don't plan on using the free Genie at all for this reason.


----------



## leeniewdw

ZeeWP said:


> 1) You aren't booking the 3 ahead of time so it makes it hard to plan in a few hours. For Pantsers, that works great, cause they don't want to plan anyways. but for Planners, that sucks cause it only gives us a few hours to tweak our touring plans.
> 
> 2) Disney is deciding what your top 2 attractions are, and you get to choose the third. So for people who hate Star Wars, they may just feel justified to spend ILL$ MMRR and then G+ for SDD. Maybe they'll be lucky and get Tower of Terror or Rock and roll Roller Coaster. but maybe not.
> 
> This goes back to Disney trying to micromanage their experience for people. I care less about the money grabbing than I do about them trying to tell me what is worth it to me or not. I don't plan on using the free Genie at all for this reason.



Yes.   We used the system for the first time this past weekend.  Just me and spouse, we value the same things and they were fine with me scheduling the system.  On our arrival day they thought I was a genius.

However, we have reservations for our 2 20-something sons + SOs in Feb when the parks will be busier (just before Pres Day).  These are all late 20-somethings who haven't been since they were tweens.  It's going to be hard to do any kind of planning because even if I can explain how it all works and come to some consensus on what rides they'll prioritize, I can't even give them any idea of what we "get" until that very day.   Under FP+ at least I could say "this is how day X looks" and go from there.   

I envision me trying to text them at 7:05 say "well you don't really have to get moving until X:XX after all".   Or  "we didn't get XXXXXX until YYYYY, but if you want to ride ZZZZ we should already be in line for early entry".

I'm being melodramatic, but it's a completely different animal trying to figure this out.   We know (or believe) park hopping works best (we aren't all day at the parks people but only have 3 days), so that means we have to work around that too.


----------



## tessa671

ChanaC said:


> What's interesting is this appears to be similar to Universal's Express Pass system, but far cheaper. Universal's Express Pass is almost like buying a second park ticket. The advantage of that though it generally the Express lines are fairly short since not many people want to pay for it or their deluxe hotels that offer the service. I can see these new Lightening/Genie lines getting really long


Express Pass includes all the rides.


----------



## scrappinginontario

ChanaC said:


> What's interesting is this appears to be similar to Universal's Express Pass system, but far cheaper. Universal's Express Pass is almost like buying a second park ticket. The advantage of that though it generally the Express lines are fairly short since not many people want to pay for it or their deluxe hotels that offer the service. I can see these new Lightening/Genie lines getting really long





tessa671 said:


> Express Pass includes all the rides.


It’s also almost 20x the price at up to $299/person/day which means far less people but it which shortens the lines too.


----------



## 20KLeagues

scrappinginontario said:


> It’s also almost 20x the price at up to $299/person/day which means far less people but it which shortens the lines too.


If you have a family of 4 or more, you are better off booking 1 night in one of the sponsoring hotels, even if you dont use the room.........

Hard Rock is only $400 per night..........Even when express pass is at it's cheapest, 1 night @ $400 is cheaper than buying 4 Express Passes

and the bonus is, you get 2 days for 1 hotel night because you can use it on arrival and departure days


----------



## jrsharp21

Some of my family in California went to Disneyland this past week. They got there on Tuesday and had no idea what Genie+ was or that it was even rolling at at DL. After talking with them, they had some very choice words about the program and just in general how the parks the new programs, rules, or whatever you want to call them, are supposed to help enhance your experience but actually do the opposite of it. 

Had a conversation with my dad last night, a long time AP at Disneyland. I was trying to help him understand G+ and ILL. You could just see the defeated look in his eyes as I was explaining everything. At the end he summed it up that Disney has made it way too difficult and confusing to visit the parks. That they are essentially driving visitors like him and my mom away. Older visitors with an annual pass. It was kind of disheartening hear him talk about giving up on going to the parks and doing something else instead. My mom and dad both really love Disneyland, especially my mom.  Crazy how one ill planned program can cause so much gloom and negativity. 

Not looking forward to having to use G+ in WDW. Since we have limited time in the parks because of the runs during MW, I decided to purchase G+ for the family. Since I am an AP, I will have to purchase each day. I guess when I get up to head to the starting line I can make the purchase. But then the family will have to control the account while I am running. So ads some more complexity to an already convoluted process.  This may be the last trip to WDW in a bit unless it is for a work conference. Like someone mentioned above, might be time to make another visit to Silver Dollar City and even Dollywood.


----------



## Cabius

jrsharp21 said:


> they had some very choice words about the program and just in general how the parks the new programs, rules, or whatever you want to call them, are supposed to help enhance your experience but actually do the opposite of it.


Ahh, see, there's your mistake. These programs aren't there to enhance the guest experience; they're there to increase guest spend. Getting people to pay more money for a worse experience is the name of the game, since all we _really_ care about is capital investment in IP. Right?


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## Garyjames220

Can you pay for the additonal rides not included with genie + by Disney gift card


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## g-dad66

Garyjames220 said:


> Can you pay for the additonal rides not included with genie + by Disney gift card



Yes.


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## disney-inspired

I've kept myself from really diving into the details for G+ because I don't think my group will be using it for our January trip. Now that we're a little more than a month out, is there anywhere that is keeping track of ILL$ prices?
 I'm hoping we'll be at the lower end of spectrum because I plan on paying for the ILL$ for my group to ride ROTR.


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## scrappinginontario

disney-inspired said:


> I've kept myself from really diving into the details for G+ because I don't think my group will be using it for our January trip. Now that we're a little more than a month out, is there anywhere that is keeping track of ILL$ prices?
> I'm hoping we'll be at the lower end of spectrum because I plan on paying for the ILL$ for my group to ride ROTR.


ILL$ is $15/person 7 days a week.

The cost for all rides is in this article:  *Individual Lightning Lane Prices Increase for the Weekend at Walt Disney World*


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## Tom_E_D

scrappinginontario said:


> ILL$ is $15/person 7 days a week.
> 
> The cost for all rides is in this article:  *Individual Lightning Lane Prices Increase for the Weekend at Walt Disney World*


Genie+, not ILL$, is $15 per person, plus tax daily. The article you cited for ILL$ prices seems to still be current. As indicated therein, some rides cost more on the weekend.


----------



## roctavia

Tom_E_D said:


> Genie+, not ILL$, is $15 per person, plus tax daily. The article you cited for ILL$ prices seems to still be current. As indicated therein, some rides cost more on the weekend.



I think they were saying that Rise of the Resistance is always $15 per person per day, that ride doesn't have a changing price, it is always 15 dollars no matter the day. At least for the foreseeable future.


----------



## Tom_E_D

roctavia said:


> I think they were saying that Rise of the Resistance is always $15 per person per day, that ride doesn't have a changing price, it is always 15 dollars no matter the day. At least for the foreseeable future.


Perhaps that is what she meant, but what she wrote was mistaken and needed to be corrected.


----------



## scrappinginontario

Tom_E_D said:


> Genie+, not ILL$, is $15 per person, plus tax daily. The article you cited for ILL$ prices seems to still be current. As indicated therein, some rides cost more on the weekend.


The OP indicated RotR which is why I quoted it above my response and why I said what I did.


roctavia said:


> I think they were saying that Rise of the Resistance is always $15 per person per day, that ride doesn't have a changing price, it is always 15 dollars no matter the day. At least for the foreseeable future.


Yes, you’re correct.


----------



## scrappinginontario

Tom_E_D said:


> Perhaps that is what she meant, but what she wrote was mistaken and needed to be corrected.


If there is a quoted post then you need to read that as the person answering was referencing a specific post.  It’s the reason why ‘quote’ is an option so that people can see exactly what the response is referring to.  It’s how message boards work.


----------



## Tom_E_D

scrappinginontario said:


> If there is a quoted post then you need to read that as the person answering was referencing a specific post.  It’s the reason why ‘quote’ is an option so that people can see exactly what the response is referring to.  It’s how message boards work.


I had read Disney-inspired's post, which referred to "G+" as well as to "ROTR."


----------



## Disney mac

20KLeagues said:


> If you have a family of 4 or more, you are better off booking 1 night in one of the sponsoring hotels, even if you dont use the room.........
> 
> Hard Rock is only $400 per night..........Even when express pass is at it's cheapest, 1 night @ $400 is cheaper than buying 4 Express Passes
> 
> and the bonus is, you get 2 days for 1 hotel night because you can use it on arrival and departure days


That's the real intent of Universal.  They want to fill their premium resorts, whereas Disney is just all about the greed and raising prices.  It's ridiculous.


----------



## shawthorne44

Disney mac said:


> That's the real intent of Universal.  They want to fill their premium resorts, whereas Disney is just all about the greed and raising prices.  It's ridiculous.


And really the premium resort prices are reasonable for the quality-level.  In my research I read one of the planning advice people say that Universal Premium is priced like a Disney Moderate and superior to most Disney Deluxe.


----------



## GBRforWDW

Cross posting from the strategy page:

Big change for Christmas holiday! Only 1 ILL$ per park, the other 1 dropping to Genie+

https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/genie/lightning-lane/?s=09


----------



## thanxfornoticin

Wow, that's a really interesting announcement.  On the one hand, it seems like Space Mountain and EE haven't been all that popular for ILL anyway, but to move them back to the "Genie+" selections is interesting.  I expect there will be some tweaking of this over the upcoming year, especially with Guardians opening in 2022, and Tron opening (hopefully) not too long after that.  It seems that adding these attractions back into the Genie+ queue should help spread out some of the G+/LL availability at each park - maybe a few more things available later in the day during an incredibly busy time.


----------



## CampbellzSoup

Genie + has shattered the standby lines, quite sad to see after everything was smooth without fast pass for a year.  So if you want to actual ride rides without crazy wait times it’s a must now


----------



## GBRforWDW

thanxfornoticin said:


> Wow, that's a really interesting announcement.  On the one hand, it seems like Space Mountain and EE haven't been all that popular for ILL anyway, but to move them back to the "Genie+" selections is interesting.  I expect there will be some tweaking of this over the upcoming year, especially with Guardians opening in 2022, and Tron opening (hopefully) not too long after that.  It seems that adding these attractions back into the Genie+ queue should help spread out some of the G+/LL availability at each park - maybe a few more things available later in the day during an incredibly busy time.


Yeah, definitely the main reason.  I wonder if after this period they experiment with slinky dog/test track or others as ILL$


----------



## thanxfornoticin

CampbellzSoup said:


> Genie + has shattered the standby lines, quite sad to see after everything was smooth without fast pass for a year.  So if you want to actual ride rides without crazy wait times it’s a must now


That break between FP+ queues and now LL queues really did show the impact on the standby line wait times, didn't it?  But I doubt you'll ever see standby-only lines again.


----------



## thanxfornoticin

GBRforWDW said:


> Yeah, definitely the main reason.  I wonder if after this period they experiment with slinky dog/test track or others as ILL$


I could definitely see that happening, especially since SDD has LL passes gone so quickly each morning.


----------



## disneyseniors

I would hope Disney has been noticing the negative reviews of Genie and LL.  Don't know how they could miss them, LOL.
I hope they continue to tweak this sad excuse for IT and make it better for guests.  I think they are seeing cancellations over Christmas and beyond and THAT hurts their pocket book.


----------



## tofubeast

*Major announcement *regarding Genie+ and iLL$ during the next couple of weeks. Check out this news article.


*More Disney Genie+ Attractions:* From December 19, 2021 – January 3, 2022, the following attractions will be included in Disney Genie+ service* and will not be included as an individual Lightning Laneentrance purchase option:
Magic Kingdom Park: Space Mountain
EPCOT: Frozen Ever After
Disney’s Hollywood Studios: Mickey & Minnie’s Runaway Railway
Disney’s Animal Kingdom Theme Park: Expedition Everest – Legend of the Forbidden Mountain

_*Attractions with Lightning Lane entrances that are Disney Genie+ and individual purchases are limited in availability, subject to change or closure, may vary by date, are not guaranteed and may not be available at all on the date of visit or at the time you make a selection._


----------



## gharter

Will be interesting to see if they extend this or if this is their chance to change what attractions are ILL$.


----------



## thanxfornoticin

gharter said:


> Will be interesting to see if they extend this or if this is their chance to change what attractions are ILL$.


It really will be interesting.  It seems like something that will be adjusted now and then.  Right now, SDD is so popular, they might be thinking about adding that to ILL.  Then Guardians is coming next year.  Tron eventually.  On the other hand, the ILL has definitely had a negative impact on the G+ reservations, so they'd best not get too deep into ILL.  By removing the top 2 attractions from each park from G+ access, it's making it less valuable and tougher to use sometimes.  In our opinion, that's the biggest negative moving from FP+/MaxPass to G+ (of course, paying for it is a big negative too!) - removing the top tier attractions from G+/LL access.


----------



## scrappinginontario

GBRforWDW said:


> Cross posting from the strategy page:
> 
> Big change for Christmas holiday! Only 1 ILL$ per park, the other 1 dropping to Genie+
> 
> https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/genie/lightning-lane/?s=09
> View attachment 631377





CampbellzSoup said:


> Genie + has shattered the standby lines, quite sad to see after everything was smooth without fast pass for a year.  So if you want to actual ride rides without crazy wait times it’s a must now


Just trying to play this scenario out in my head.

Am I correct in thinking that the only way for this change to improve the standby situation is for Disney to take only a portion of the ILL$ reservations and add them to the Genie + LL bank and leave the others out?  If not, wouldn't the same thing happen as in the past with basically non-moving standby lines and the only thing accomplished is less $ in Disney's pocket?

Or, are they hoping this will encourage more to purchase Genie +?

Or, will it mean there are more LL places to spread guests out?

Well, nothing but more questions for me!


----------



## GBRforWDW

scrappinginontario said:


> Just trying to play this scenario out in my head.
> 
> Am I correct in thinking that the only way for this change to improve the standby situation is for Disney to take only a portion of the ILL$ reservations and add them to the Genie + LL bank and leave the others out?  If not, wouldn't the same thing happen as in the past with basically non-moving standby lines and the only thing accomplished is less $ in Disney's pocket?
> 
> Or, are they hoping this will encourage more to purchase Genie +?
> 
> Or, will it mean there are more LL places to spread guests out?
> 
> Well, nothing but more questions for me!


I think it's mainly to have more LL's available through Genie+ in the hopes they won't use up G+ by early afternoon.


----------



## Faithful Raider

scrappinginontario said:


> Just trying to play this scenario out in my head.
> 
> Am I correct in thinking that the only way for this change to improve the standby situation is for Disney to take only a portion of the ILL$ reservations and add them to the Genie + LL bank and leave the others out?  If not, wouldn't the same thing happen as in the past with basically non-moving standby lines and the only thing accomplished is less $ in Disney's pocket?
> 
> Or, are they hoping this will encourage more to purchase Genie +?
> 
> Or, will it mean there are more LL places to spread guests out?
> 
> Well, nothing but more questions for me!



First thing that came to mind for me was Disney trying to maximize G+ sales. The cynic in me thinks someone has a guest utilization percentage target they are trying to hit for an end of year bonus or something. But it could be as simple as they want to change up some of the ILL$ and this is Disney being nice by giving a little grace period as they announce the change in the new year. It is interesting that Frozen is on there, as initial G+ rumors originally had Frozen as the G+ and Test Track as the ILL$. 

The other thing that catches my eye is the timing. Arguably the busiest 2 weeks of the year. If it isn't just for boosting G+ profits, it might be to "get the word out" and get it in the hands of lots of people, if Disney truly believes the Genie+ experience is a benefit to guests. 

Personally I think it will end up being a disaster. Huge crowds will already put a strain on G+. Pushing even more guests to "act now" and get extra rides with G+ is going to put the system's flaws on full display for record crowds.


----------



## mom2rtk

Faithful Raider said:


> First thing that came to mind for me was Disney trying to maximize G+ sales. The cynic in me thinks someone has a guest utilization percentage target they are trying to hit for an end of year bonus or something. But it could be as simple as they want to change up some of the ILL$ and this is Disney being nice by giving a little grace period as they announce the change in the new year. It is interesting that Frozen is on there, as initial G+ rumors originally had Frozen as the G+ and Test Track as the ILL$.
> 
> The other thing that catches my eye is the timing. Arguably the busiest 2 weeks of the year. If it isn't just for boosting G+ profits, it might be to "get the word out" and get it in the hands of lots of people, if Disney truly believes the Genie+ experience is a benefit to guests.
> 
> Personally I think it will end up being a disaster. Huge crowds will already put a strain on G+. Pushing even more guests to "act now" and get extra rides with G+ is going to put the system's flaws on full display for record crowds.


Don't overthink it. Based on Thanksgiving week performance that system was going to be a mess without extra inventory over Christmas.


----------



## tiana1989

mom2rtk said:


> Don't overthink it. Based on Thanksgiving week performance that system was going to be a mess without extra inventory over Christmas.



I agree. After Thanksgiving they had to do SOMETHING. Maybe this will work, maybe it won’t, but at least we’re finally seeing some acknowledgment from Disney that Thanksgiving was a disaster and they’re trying something different for Christmas crowds. I’ll be there between Christmas and New Year’s (yikes I know), so I’ll buy it the first few days to see if it works with these changes, and if not I’ll go standby the remainder of the trip. Luckily my DHS days area few days in, so I’ll have plenty of time to readthe horror stories ugh.


----------



## jlundeen

I just feel sorry for all those families who had to play "guinea pig" for this boondoggle.  Now, something new and exciting will be trotted out just in time for the biggest crowds of the year.    

I have to wonder in my heart of hearts if any of the people on the "Genie Team" that came up with this thing ever even visited the parks from the perspective of a family on vacation that value the Disney Experience.  Makes me scratch my head.


----------



## tiana1989

Yeah, the rumors I’ve seen are that they pressured the team working on Genie to get this out before it was ready, so they were still internally debating features, working out bugs, etc. Based on all that’s happened, I don’t think that’s a stretch to believe at all. And if it’s true, it’s unfortunate because it seems the programmers maybe did have guest experience in mind, but the bigwigs who come to the parks for an hour during a big announcement and VIP to the front of the lines for the one ride they want to go on and have no clue what park guests go through forced them to just whip what they had together. I can’t imagine that would be rewarding for someone who put all this effort into a program and wanted to take the time to get it to work. And, of course, it especially sucks for the guests.


----------



## princesswahooey

mom2rtk said:


> Don't overthink it. Based on Thanksgiving week performance that system was going to be a mess without extra inventory over Christmas.


Yes, I think avoiding bad PR like what happened over Thanksgiving when everyone came home and told people G+ is worthless. I think they're trying to save face. It doesn't make financial sense otherwise.


----------



## Grumpy by Birth

20KLeagues said:


> Other than being too expensive and Disney taking advantage of their loyal customers, I think the things with Genie+ that need to change are:
> 
> 1) eliminate having to get up pre 7am EVERY day
> 2) Stop having to have to be on your phone all day
> 3) Pick return times to avoid park hopping/dining overlaps
> 4) ability to pre book in some way/shape/form
> 5) change a Genie+ selection without having to cancel first
> 6) limit availability to avoid 30+ minute ILL lines
> 7) Add different "drops" throughout the day so there is inventory available in the afternoon


So, what I hear you saying is that they should make it work just like FP+.


----------



## thanxfornoticin

Grumpy by Birth said:


> So, what I hear you saying is that they should make it work just like FP+.


There were similar complaints with similar lists of things that 'had to be changed' with FP+, too.  There are things people hated about FP+, too.  And things people hated about the original FP.  It's all a matter of what works for people and what doesn't.


----------



## cjlong88

thanxfornoticin said:


> There were similar complaints with similar lists of things that 'had to be changed' with FP+, too.  There are things people hated about FP+, too.  And things people hated about the original FP.  It's all a matter of what works for people and what doesn't.


Funny you say this. I actually stumbled on an old thread on these boards when FP+ was being introduced to see how everyone reacted back then and everyone complained about how it was ruining the park experience and Disney will suffer for it because it will drive loyal guests away.

A tale as old as time perhaps…


----------



## brentm77

cjlong88 said:


> Funny you say this. I actually stumbled on an old thread on these boards when FP+ was being introduced to see how everyone reacted back then and everyone complained about how it was ruining the park experience and Disney will suffer for it because it will drive loyal guests away.
> 
> A tale as old as time perhaps…



It's a fair point, but I wonder if this time it will have a little more impact because of the timing of other initiatives, declining service, declining cleanliness, declining ease of getting food, etc.  We never had an issue with FP+, but we are literally skipping Disney for the next couple of years, at least, after at least one big expensive trip there every year, and sometimes up to three, often at premium resorts.  This new idea of charging for fast passes (which I am ok with), but excluding the best rides in each park and charging per-ride for those, just felt different than past initiatives and like Disney thought we were big suckers, particularly when combined with the already declining value and rising costs.  I have no problem paying for premium experiences, but they have to be truly premium where the price is justified, which we aren't seeing here.  I am sure the parks will be as packed as ever, but I do wonder if they will end up needing to offer more specials on rooms and tickets due to these recent initiatives.   I have talked to several other families like us, and I don't ever recall this much rumbling on social media, so I can't imagine it won't have some impact.


----------



## cjlong88

brentm77 said:


> It's a fair point, but I wonder if this time it will have a little more impact because of the timing of other initiatives, declining service, declining cleanliness, declining ease of getting food, etc.  We never had an issue with FP+, but we are literally skipping Disney for the next couple of years, at least, after at least one big expensive trip there every year, and sometimes up to three, often at premium resorts.  This new idea of charging for fast passes (which I am ok with), but excluding the best rides in each park and charging per-ride for those, just felt different than past initiatives and like Disney thought we were big suckers, particularly when combined with the already declining value and rising costs.  I have no problem paying for premium experiences, but they have to be truly premium where the price is justified, which we aren't seeing here.  I am sure the parks will be as packed as ever, but I do wonder if they will end up needing to offer more specials on rooms and tickets due to these recent initiatives.   I have talked to several other families like us, and I don't ever recall this much rumbling on social media, so I can't imagine it won't have some impact.


Maybe, maybe not. Those who are upset will always be the most vocal. Personally we have had great trips this year (both before and after G+) and look forward to being there tonight, and we have had friends who in the past month had said nothing but great things about their trips. Doesn’t mean everyone has had my experience nor yours. But I do not put much stock in anecdotal evidence or what people are saying, good or bad. It’s what people do. And right now people are going to WDW. Doesn’t mean it won’t change, but no one can really predict the future. Only time will tell.

What we do know is that claims such as these have been made on these boards any time Disney makes a change, whether for better or worse.


----------



## shawthorne44

The change I find most upsetting is reports of declining cleanliness.  The food changes I'm not upset about because we'll have a car and park hoppers, so Disney dining budget is much lower now. Shows/entertainment still being at 50% is inexcusable. As is the lack of trams. But, those last two I can put out of my mind while in the park. But not overflowing trash cans.


----------



## Juventus

Looks like SDD went quicker than MMRR this morning.  I wonder if they will switch those 2 with regards to G+/$ILL after the holidays.


----------



## GBRforWDW

Juventus said:


> Looks like SDD went quicker than MMRR this morning.  I wonder if they will switch those 2 with regards to G+/$ILL after the holidays.


Part of the problem, and I doubt it's the main reason, but MMRR and 2 other ILL$ downgraded to G+ rides (frozen & Space Mountain) weren't available until 7:15 this morning.


----------



## g-dad66

Yikes.  Longest wait time in any park right now is Frozen Ever After at 2 hours and 40 minutes.

I realize that wait times are inflated, but still.....


----------



## KLK622

Just wanted to report that I was able to book MMRR for my second Genie+ selection today…I booked Slinky at 7 am for 1:15-2:15 and then at 10:30 I was able to get MMRR for 6:20-7:20.  I was able to get TSMM at 12:30 for 6:55-7:55.  The park was busy this morning (touring plans had it as an 8) so I was presently surprised.


----------



## GBRforWDW

KLK622 said:


> Just wanted to report that I was able to book MMRR for my second Genie+ selection today…I booked Slinky at 7 am for 1:15-2:15 and then at 10:30 I was able to get MMRR for 6:20-7:20.  I was able to get TSMM at 12:30 for 6:55-7:55.  The park was busy this morning (touring plans had it as an 8) so I was presently surprised.


Sounds like a good use of Genie! Good news for my Friday!


----------



## Jrb1979

Looks like Disney is trying to add more availability by changing the LL to standby ratio. On WDWmagic a poster at Disney now posted that they were Kali and they were loading 50LL to every 5-10 standby.


----------



## KLK622

Jrb1979 said:


> Looks like Disney is trying to add more availability by changing the LL to standby ratio. On WDWmagic a poster at Disney now posted that they were Kali and they were loading 50LL to every 5-10 standby.



I think this is probably accurate…standby lines were long the past few days, but Genie+ availability was good!  Good for those that plan to buy, not so good for those that don’t.


----------



## wisblue

cjlong88 said:


> Funny you say this. I actually stumbled on an old thread on these boards when FP+ was being introduced to see how everyone reacted back then and everyone complained about how it was ruining the park experience and Disney will suffer for it because it will drive loyal guests away.
> 
> A tale as old as time perhaps…



It wasn’t everyone who was complaining. Our family always preferred FP+ to the paper system because it worked better for us.

But there was a very vocal and prolific group of posters who hated FP+ to the point that they suggested it might bring down the Disney company. Some of them even went so far as to suggest that anyone who touted the positives of FP+ must be a compensated representative of Disney.

I was part of some “interesting” exchanges in those days. I think the discussion about Genie+ has been a lot more civil.


----------



## mom2rtk

g-dad66 said:


> Yikes.  Longest wait time in any park right now is Frozen Ever After at 2 hours and 40 minutes.
> 
> I realize that wait times are inflated, but still.....


Gotta party now like it's 2016.


----------



## brentm77

KLK622 said:


> Just wanted to report that I was able to book MMRR for my second Genie+ selection today…I booked Slinky at 7 am for 1:15-2:15 and then at 10:30 I was able to get MMRR for 6:20-7:20.  I was able to get TSMM at 12:30 for 6:55-7:55.  The park was busy this morning (touring plans had it as an 8) so I was presently surprised.


 Can you explain this?  I thought you couldn't get your second selection until you used you first.  I tried getting another selection today several hours after making my first selection, but it wouldn't let me since I hadn't used the first one (MMRR for noon).  Thanks.


----------



## mom2rtk

brentm77 said:


> Can you explain this?  I thought you couldn't get your second selection until you used you first.  I tried getting another selection today several hours after making my first selection, but it wouldn't let me since I hadn't used the first one (MMRR for noon).  Thanks.


What time did the park open and what time did you make your first selection?


----------



## brentm77

mom2rtk said:


> What time did the park open and what time did you make your first selection?



Park opened at 8:30, 7:30 for hotel guests. We are staying on site, so we made 7 selections for MMRR at noon. Tried all the way up to using the first selection to get another, but it said we weren't eligible. By the time we were able to get another, all the stuff we wanted was late into the evening and we weren't planning on staying. I thought it would be like the old fastpasses where you could get another after a set time. As it was for us, we were paying for a system that will give you very few passes if you pick anything popular. Seems like a real downgrade from the days we could get passes all day.  Maybe it was broken for us? Because the message was blank where it was supposed to tell us when we were eligible for the next pass.


----------



## g-dad66

brentm77 said:


> Park opened at 8:30, 7:30 for hotel guests. We are staying on site, so we made 7 selections for MMRR at noon. Tried all the way up to using the first selection to get another, but it said we weren't eligible. By the time we were able to get another, all the stuff we wanted was late into the evening and we weren't planning on staying. I thought it would be like the old fastpasses where you could get another after a set time. As it was for us, we were paying for a system that will give you very few passes if you pick anything popular. Seems like a real downgrade from the days we could get passes all day.  Maybe it was broken for us? Because the message was blank where it was supposed to tell us when we were eligible for the next pass.



You should have been eligible to book your second LL at 10:30 (2 hours after park opening).  Sounds like something wasn't working right. So sorry that happened to you.

Yeah, it's definitely a downgrade.


----------



## brentm77

g-dad66 said:


> You should have been eligible to book your second LL at 10:30 (2 hours after park opening).  Sounds like something wasn't working right. So sorry that happened to you.
> 
> Yeah, it's definitely a downgrade.


Good to know! I thought I was going crazy, because that's what I thought, but a cast member gave me wrong info when I asked. If it doesn't work tomorrow, I will know to get help.


----------



## GBRforWDW

brentm77 said:


> Good to know! I thought I was going crazy, because that's what I thought, but a cast member gave me wrong info when I asked. If it doesn't work tomorrow, I will know to get help.


That’s frustrating when the cast member can’t get you correct info.  Hopefully it works for you tomorrow. I also noticed the eligible after isn’t displaying a time, but I didn’t have issues booking a second pass 2 hours after opening. We were at Animal Kingdom today.


----------



## Yusani

shawthorne44 said:


> The change I find most upsetting is reports of declining cleanliness.  The food changes I'm not upset about because we'll have a car and park hoppers, so Disney dining budget is much lower now. Shows/entertainment still being at 50% is inexcusable. As is the lack of trams. But, those last two I can put out of my mind while in the park. But not overflowing trash cans.


Overflowing trash cans would really disappoint me!  I hope this is getting better!


----------



## VAlegacy

Yusani said:


> Overflowing trash cans would really disappoint me!  I hope this is getting better!


I'm sure there are plenty of CM's available to help facilitate Genie+ and ILL sales though


----------



## Meglen

VAlegacy said:


> I'm sure there are plenty of CM's available to help facilitate Genie+ and ILL sales though


Same cm that dealt with recovery fast passes and disability entry. Who wants to get paid 9$ and hour to pick up garbage all day when they can work down the road for 15$ being a cashier..


----------



## DisSurfer878

Meglen said:


> Same cm that dealt with recovery fast passes and disability entry. Who wants to get paid 9$ and hour to pick up garbage all day when they can work down the road for 15$ being a cashier..


This only applies to Orlando though, By law, minimum wage in California is $15. All CMs there are paid at least minimum wage.


----------



## Meglen

DisSurfer878 said:


> This only applies to Orlando though, By law, minimum wage in California is $15. All CMs there are paid at least minimum wage.


Florida is min 10$ tho. While minimum might be higher in Cali I can assure you they can find better pay for minimum more work.


----------



## scrappinginontario

Please take this thread back to Genie Announcement.  Other posts will be deleted as they are not on topic of the thread.


----------



## Meglen

All I have been hearing are bad reviews of genie plus. The majority being that you need to book early and be in the park rope drop so you can get a few genie + rides in befor they are all gone. Which is rather silly since if your in the park for rope drop than you really don't need genie+. 

What are people's thoughts on changes they might make if the purchase of genie+ goes below 20% of park goers using it. ?


----------



## butterscotchcollins

Meglen said:


> What are people's thoughts on changes they might make if the purchase of genie+ goes below 20% of park goers using it. ?



Possible changes (or at least changes I’d like to see them make to make me consider actually buying it
1. Allow guests to select 2 reservations at once. That way you can keep the cooling period to make it fair and equitable but eliminate one of the most frustrating parts of the wait.
2. Add a higher priced tier like Universal that bypasses the need to “reserve” times and allows you to hop into any LL line at any time.
3. Add it as a free perk during a promotional period (unlikely unless adoption drops drastically which doesn’t seem like it’s happening any time soon.)


----------



## Meglen

butterscotchcollins said:


> Possible changes (or at least changes I’d like to see them make to make me consider actually buying it
> 1. Allow guests to select 2 reservations at once. That way you can keep the cooling period to make it fair and equitable but eliminate one of the most frustrating parts of the wait.
> 2. Add a higher priced tier like Universal that bypasses the need to “reserve” times and allows you to hop into any LL line at any time.
> 3. Add it as a free perk during a promotional period (unlikely unless adoption drops drastically which doesn’t seem like it’s happening any time soon.)


I think #2 would be the way to go to actually make it usable. Saddly making it cost more but guarantee available rides all day would make it worth it. 45$ a person per day multiple rides ok. And that might be even too little to get a balance.


----------



## wisblue

Meglen said:


> All I have been hearing are bad reviews of genie plus. The majority being that you need to book early and be in the park rope drop so you can get a few genie + rides in befor they are all gone. Which is rather silly since if your in the park for rope drop than you really don't need genie+.
> 
> What are people's thoughts on changes they might make if the purchase of genie+ goes below 20% of park goers using it. ?



If all you are hearing are bad reviews you have not been looking at the thread about Genie+ strategies which contains many examples of how people have used Genie+ effectively.

The statement that you have to be be in the park at rope drop to get a few Genie + rides in before they are all gone is patently false.


----------



## Aluminum Falcon

Meglen said:


> I think #2 would be the way to go to actually make it usable. Saddly making it cost more but guarantee available rides all day would make it worth it. 45$ a person per day multiple rides ok. And that might be even too little to get a balance.


I think that while that’s a good idea in theory, rides would be completely bogged down just trying to accommodate that many guests. Even if it only 15% of guests that but it, that is essentially around 7-10k people per day per park with unlimited fast passes


----------



## Meglen

wisblue said:


> If all you are hearing are bad reviews you have not been looking at the thread about Genie+ strategies which contains many examples of how people have used Genie+ effectively.
> 
> The statement that you have to be be in the park at rope drop to get a few Genie + rides in before they are all gone is patently false.


I have watched many different vlogs of them using it multiple ways and most the time they comeback not happy. The newest addition is Adam hattan.


----------



## wisblue

Meglen said:


> I have watched many different vlogs of them using it multiple ways and most the time they comeback not happy. The newest addition is Adam hattan.



If vloggers are unhappy, so be it. I‘m not sure that vloggers are the best representatives of the average guest.

But it is not true that you have to be in the park at rope drop and do a few rides before everything is gone. I know that from my own experiences.


----------



## Aluminum Falcon

Meglen said:


> I have watched many different vlogs of them using it multiple ways and most the time they comeback not happy. The newest addition is Adam hattan.


I wonder if that’s more of a complaint that they haven’t been able to game the system like they could previously


----------



## Aluminum Falcon

wisblue said:


> If vloggers are unhappy, so be it. I‘m not sure that vloggers are the best representatives of the average guest.
> 
> But it is not true that you have to be in the park at rope drop and do a few rides before everything is gone. I know that from my own experiences.


I agree, the part about getting on early to book a reservation seems correct to me, at least from my last experience there, but that really just pertained to ROTR, and Rat, which you would have needed to get up early for, before genie


----------



## Miffy

The thing about G+ for me in December was that I don't stay in the parks late these days and G+ seemed to be working best for people who either stayed in the parks all day or booked their G+s in the morning for the afternoon and evening. This requires work and vigilance, since you can't pick a time for G+.

If the "solution"--is it a solution?--to the current system is to charge even more for it, then I will go back to RD strategy, which I used in December anyway, along with G+. My sister and I spent a bit over $400 in total for a one-week stay in December, between G+ and ILL$. I can't really see doing that again. It's a lot of money to me. And, btw, if you're listening, Disney, this definitely cut into our TS food budget.

For people with unlimited funds who want all-inclusive front-of-the-line access, there's always hiring a plaid. We saw a _lot _of them in December.

If we're suggesting things that would help, how about this? Let WDW resort guests make 2 G+ reservations per day in advance of their trip. This doesn't solve the supposed level-the-playing-field idea that I've seen given for WDW going to G+, but frankly the playing field is never level. Off-site guests are still often locked out of purchasing ILL$ for RotR and FoP, deluxe resort guests get extra evening hours, and all resort guests get ETPE. That's hardly what I'd call a level playing field.


----------



## MMSM

Miffy said:


> The thing about G+ for me in December was that I don't stay in the parks late these days and G+ seemed to be working best for people who either stayed in the parks all day or booked their G+s in the morning for the afternoon and evening. This requires work and vigilance, since you can't pick a time for G+.
> 
> If the "solution"--is it a solution?--to the current system is to charge even more for it, then I will go back to RD strategy, which I used in December anyway, along with G+. My sister and I spent a bit over $400 in total for a one-week stay in December, between G+ and ILL$. I can't really see doing that again. It's a lot of money to me. And, btw, if you're listening, Disney, this definitely cut into our TS food budget.
> 
> For people with unlimited funds who want all-inclusive front-of-the-line access, there's always hiring a plaid. We saw a _lot _of them in December.
> 
> If we're suggesting things that would help, how about this? Let WDW resort guests make 2 G+ reservations per day in advance of their trip. This doesn't solve the supposed level-the-playing-field idea that I've seen given for WDW going to G+, but frankly the playing field is never level. Off-site guests are still often locked out of purchasing ILL$ for RotR and FoP, deluxe resort guests get extra evening hours, and all resort guests get ETPE. That's hardly what I'd call a level playing field.


I thought everyone could buy ILL at 7am. FoP and RotR and other paid ones are open to all to buy at 7am, right?


----------



## CJK

MMSM said:


> I thought everyone could buy ILL at 7am. FoP and RotR and other paid ones are open to all to buy at 7am, right?


Offsite guests can't book ILL until official park open. Resort guests can book at 7am.


----------



## elgerber

MMSM said:


> I thought everyone could buy ILL at 7am. FoP and RotR and other paid ones are open to all to buy at 7am, right?


No, only onsite can purchase ILL at 7.


----------



## itf

Personally I would rather see on-site guests get additional perks rather than add things that continue to penalise off-site guests like ROTR ILLs but I'm an off-site guest so I would say that!


----------



## MMSM

elgerber said:


> No, only onsite can purchase ILL at 7.


Even the paid lighting lane?


----------



## MMSM

MMSM said:


> Even the paid lighting lane?


Meaning paid attractions- RoTR and MMRR?


----------



## elgerber

MMSM said:


> Meaning paid attractions- RoTR and MMRR?


Yes, only onsite can purchase ILL (which is the paid individual rides) at 7am.  Offsite cannot purchase until park open.


----------



## scrappinginontario

This summary thread may be helpful:

*Everything Genie, Genie+ and Individual Lightning Lane - Please Read Posts 1-7*


----------



## Jimmy Mouse

Meglen said:


> I think #2 would be the way to go to actually make it usable. Saddly making it cost more but guarantee available rides all day would make it worth it. *45$ a person per day multiple rides ok.* And that might be even too little to get a balance.


$45 per person would not be enough. Universal is in the upper end of the $300's during busy times. Slow times it's still $70+ per person but during slow times you don't need the express pass. WDW would have to charge $400+ per person for unlimited passes otherwise everyone would purchase it, making the LL useless.


----------



## SMF_mom23

Jimmy Mouse said:


> $45 per person would not be enough. Universal is in the upper end of the $300's during busy times. Slow times it's still $70+ per person but during slow times you don't need the express pass. WDW would have to charge $400+ per person for unlimited passes otherwise everyone would purchase it, making the LL useless.


I agree that $45 wouldn't be enough, but $400 feels like an overshoot.  

If I understand it correctly, at Universal, you pay for the pass by the day and it is only good at the two main parks (not the water park). The express pass would be expensive, but not COMPLETELY out of reach for a family of 4 during a typically-priced time (wherever that falls). You'd have two, maybe three, park days and can reasonably expect to ride/see most everything. Does that sound right?  (Haven't been there yet, so I can only go by what I've heard/read.)  BUT, Universal offers their EP as a benefit of staying at higher-end hotels, thus giving families a choice of how to spend their dollars and what they think is "worth it" to pay.

WDW is another story.  With 4 parks, two of which would be popular for this type of pass (MK & HS), and one of those still likely needing a second day to really experience/see everything (MK), the price starts to rise very quickly for that same family of 4. Factor in EPCOT, depending on what "Festival" your visit falls during, and you may find the pass a great help there, too.  Here, there are no cost-saving benefits to staying at a Deluxe resort, unless you count EMH at MK/EPCOT one night/wk, which I do not.  

Either way, it seems to me something has got to be changed with the system as it stands.  Guess we'll see where it goes and how far TWDC wants to push the envelope.


----------



## Figvention

SMF_mom23 said:


> I agree that $45 wouldn't be enough, but $400 feels like an overshoot.
> 
> If I understand it correctly, at Universal, you pay for the pass by the day and it is only good at the two main parks (not the water park). The express pass would be expensive, but not COMPLETELY out of reach for a family of 4 during a typically-priced time (wherever that falls). You'd have two, maybe three, park days and can reasonably expect to ride/see most everything. Does that sound right?



Please forgive my hubris here but “The express pass would be expensive, but not COMPLETELY out of reach for a family of 4 during a typically-priced time”… what world do you live in where this is not absolutely our of reach for 90% of Americans? Median household income was *$67,521 in 2020*, a decrease of 2.9 percent from the 2019 median of $69,560. An average 4 night stay at Pop Century with 4 day tickets in April of this year is about 3,700, tac on 1,300 for food for 4 days and your at an even 5k (that’s playing it cheap at wdw), you do understand that’s 8% of their ENTIRE YEARLY INCOME income. I’m gonna let that sit for a moment. Slapping on 1,300 - 1,600 dollars for one day of unlimited fast passes is COMPLETELY out of reach for 90% of American families.

By the grace of providence, we are blessed enough to travel. Recently came back from the World over the holidays. Lots of things needed painting, over flowing garbage, stupid wait times for food, cast member service was lacking, and the overall Disney guest experience is gone. We don’t cry over this, will simply spend our dollars elsewhere. My frustration comes when I see post like yours that give Bob Paycheck a “thrill up his leg” when you say 8% of your income for 4 days "ain’t that bad, here’s another 1,600 so I can ride all the rides on my once in a lifetime experience.” You’re enabling the downfall by patting their untenable logic as “good”. If you think the Disney economy can be supported by monied silver haired people, your gonna be REALLY disappointed at the quality of experience in 5 years.

Please have a little cognitive understanding of the economy and what real people make for a living . It’s insulting on some level and enables the worst from the top. 11% of a YEAR’S worth of post tax income is NEVER really in reach for most families today. Finically healthy people sometimes don’t live in the real world economically, it’s insulting to people who can’t afford first class.


----------



## JakeAZ

Here's my take on Genie+

It's awful

1.  It allowed them to raise ticket prices by $15 each day.  No discount for multiple days of purchase either.  A straight $15 per day, per person increase.  It's 100% profit
2.  It requires you to wake up early each morning of your "vacation"
3.  Disney tech is terrible, so when we were there, it was never a smooth experience
4.  No "modify" feature.  Having to cancel and keep your fingers crossed the other time you want is still there is a terrible experience.
5.  Having to check your phone throughout the day to stay on top of things
6.  You end up criss-crossing the parks more often than not
7.  Giving on-site and off-site an even playing field
8.  Only having the option of grabbing the next available time
9.  One hour time windows are annoying
10.  Once you use Universal EP, you truly realize what a joke G+ is

Edited to add:
11.  IA$, while not part of G+ is also awful.  It's confusing to have two dumb systems for the average park guests and basically penalizes us for the lack of quality rides at each park. 

All of that being said, if you are there on moderate+ to heavy crowd days, you are at a severe disadvantage if you don't purchase it.  Especially at HS and MK.  I studied the ins and outs of it before we went and we were able to have a lot of success using it.  However, as you can see from the above, just because it "worked" for us, doesn't mean I want to do it again.  I don't like feeling like I have to purchase the latest nickel and dime up-charge so that I can try to ensure the other $1000s I've already spent wasn't wasted.


----------



## itf

While I dislike it too #1 isn't correct or at least in the UK it isn't - was coming in at around $10 a day (inc tax) to add it to a 14 day ticket as opposed to the $15+tax for individual days.


----------



## butterscotchcollins

JakeAZ said:


> I studied the ins and outs of it before we went and we were able to have a lot of success using it.  However, as you can see from the above, just because it "worked" for us, doesn't mean I want to do it again.



This is the biggest reason why I won’t do it - I don’t want to have to STUDY like I’m on an academic curriculum in order to be able to use the feature. It is NOT intuitive, it requires a ton of reading these boards to understand optimization, which is ridiculous. I’m a smart person, I _could_ figure it out, but why should I have to? Do better, Disney. I’ll give you the $ when you don’t make me work so hard for it.


----------



## JakeAZ

itf said:


> While I dislike it too #1 isn't correct or at least in the UK it isn't - was coming in at around $10 a day (inc tax) to add it to a 14 day ticket as opposed to the $15+tax for individual days.


In the US, it's $15 pp, per day.


butterscotchcollins said:


> This is the biggest reason why I won’t do it - I don’t want to have to STUDY like I’m on an academic curriculum in order to be able to use the feature. It is NOT intuitive, it requires a ton of reading these boards to understand optimization, which is ridiculous. I’m a smart person, I _could_ figure it out, but why should I have to? Do better, Disney. I’ll give you the $ when you don’t make me work so hard for it.


100%.  When we went, some of the original loopholes were still active, but then on day 3 of our trip, they were closed, without notice.  I didn't find out what happened until I read these boards later that night.

But yes, if your express system requires studying, you've done it wrong.

I promise you, I didn't study at all for my Universal days with the EP.


----------



## scrappinginontario

itf said:


> While I dislike it too #1 isn't correct or at least in the UK it isn't - was coming in at around $10 a day (inc tax) to add it to a 14 day ticket as opposed to the $15+tax for individual days.


This must have been a special promotion offered to UK guests.  It’s $15/day for US (and Canadian) guests whether we purchase in advance for all days or, daily as wanted.


----------



## TravelandLeisure

itf said:


> While I dislike it too #1 isn't correct or at least in the UK it isn't - was coming in at around $10 a day (inc tax) to add it to a 14 day ticket as opposed to the $15+tax for individual days.



That isn’t the case when adding it in the states. I didn’t notice any discount when added to a length of stay ticket from Disney.


----------



## Miffy

butterscotchcollins said:


> This is the biggest reason why I won’t do it - I don’t want to have to STUDY like I’m on an academic curriculum in order to be able to use the feature. It is NOT intuitive, it requires a ton of reading these boards to understand optimization, which is ridiculous. I’m a smart person, I _could_ figure it out, but why should I have to? Do better, Disney. I’ll give you the $ when you don’t make me work so hard for it.


Yes, all that, except that I did use it on the last trip, although on some days G+ was good (for me) for only 1 attraction. It has to do with the way I tour the parks.

However, with all the "level the playing field" explanations by WDW, G and G+ and ILL$ are not intuitive or easy to use, nor do they always work the way they should. I had conversations with several other parkgoers who were clueless, just as they were with FP+. WDW started G+ and ILL$ to make money, not to level any playing field or make anything more fair. How can something that adds on an additional cost to an already expensive trip be considered fair? Some of us are on limited budgets.

ETA: It's actually $15.98/day here in the U.S. That's the price including tax. Why they couldn't've included tax in the $15 is beyond me. Oh . . . wait . . . pure profit.


----------



## SMF_mom23

Figvention said:


> Please forgive my hubris here but “The express pass would be expensive, but not COMPLETELY out of reach for a family of 4 during a typically-priced time”… what world do you live in where this is not absolutely our of reach for 90% of Americans? Median household income was *$67,521 in 2020*, a decrease of 2.9 percent from the 2019 median of $69,560. An average 4 night stay at Pop Century with 4 day tickets in April of this year is about 3,700, tac on 1,300 for food for 4 days and your at an even 5k (that’s playing it cheap at wdw), you do understand that’s 8% of their ENTIRE YEARLY INCOME income. I’m gonna let that sit for a moment. Slapping on 1,300 - 1,600 dollars for one day of unlimited fast passes is COMPLETELY out of reach for 90% of American families.
> 
> By the grace of providence, we are blessed enough to travel. Recently came back from the World over the holidays. Lots of things needed painting, over flowing garbage, stupid wait times for food, cast member service was lacking, and the overall Disney guest experience is gone. We don’t cry over this, will simply spend our dollars elsewhere. My frustration comes when I see post like yours that give Bob Paycheck a “thrill up his leg” when you say 8% of your income for 4 days "ain’t that bad, here’s another 1,600 so I can ride all the rides on my once in a lifetime experience.” You’re enabling the downfall by patting their untenable logic as “good”. If you think the Disney economy can be supported by monied silver haired people, your gonna be REALLY disappointed at the quality of experience in 5 years.
> 
> Please have a little cognitive understanding of the economy and what real people make for a living . It’s insulting on some level and enables the worst from the top. 11% of a YEAR’S worth of post tax income is NEVER really in reach for most families today. Finically healthy people sometimes don’t live in the real world economically, it’s insulting to people who can’t afford first class.



Let me start out by saying I agree with you 100% that "11% of a YEAR’S worth of post tax income is NEVER really in reach for most families."  Additionally, I find the disparity between the income at the very top of TWDC (or a number of other companies) and the people at the bottom very disheartening.  My ideas on how to fix it are likely not going to be popular to many.  I am by no means a person who can afford live "fist class" and try to save money wherever possible.  This, along with budgeting allows us to take our family on vacations, mostly where we stay with family, so no living large there.

I'm sorry that I wasn't clear in my post that I was not referring to a family that goes annually.  Mine doesn't and when writing my post I was operating from my own frame of reference which dictates annual trips are far out of the question.  (I am constantly amazed by the people who are able to pull off annual, or even bi-annual vacations to WDW, much less the people that go multiple times per year.)  If a family was going to go each year, or even every few years, then it would absolutely be out of their reach.  My post was intended to be a family that is going once every 3, 5, or 10 years as my example. 

When I mentioned "typically-priced" I was referring to days at Universal when the EP was closer to the bottom/middle end of the range.  Based on the prior post's information, the range for a family of 4 would $280 (expensive) - 1600/day (I cannot fathom paying this).  I also mentioned that these passes are included in some hotel stays, which would then result in less cost out of pocket for the family vs staying at another hotel and buying the passes individually for each day they visit, should they feel it was worth the expense to them.  With it being Universal, the parks can be done in 1 day each, as I understand it, and you can purchase express passes for as many/few days as you choose.  Again, I've never been there, so I ask for confirmation that what I'm understanding is correct.

I stated that "WDW is another story" and that the price would rapidly increase for that same family of four because there are more parks to cover, some of which people find require two days to fully experience.  Thus, I was trying to say it would be cost-prohibitive for them were the price set too high.

Again, my apologies.  I hope this clarified what I was trying to say.  Honestly, I'm struggling with COVID brain-fog and not always communicating clearly to those near me either.  So probably I shouldn't be posting on the boards rn at all, but that ship has sailed at this point.


----------



## seanholmes2

Yusani said:


> Overflowing trash cans would really disappoint me!  I hope this is getting better!


I wondering if parks will get more modern with "robo-mobile waste baskets" in my life-time?


----------



## ccbloom

Not sure how this will pan out for us. We are on day 6 of our trip and I’m beyond frustrated with G+. We’ve paid for it 2 or 3 days and have ridden far fewer rides in our time here than on any of our past 15 trips.

This morning we got up at 6:55am (me and 15 year old daughter) to try and get a SDD time. I saw a 10:15am pass. Selected and paid for G+ and got an error message. My charge went through, but the pass res did not. Nothing else available. Kept checking and saw a few later in the day that would not work for us and I was not booking them because to cancel and rebook would be nearly impossible. Saw another 10:15 after an immediate refresh. Grabbed it quickly - “Please return 2:40-3:40 for your experience”. What??!!!! We have a dining reservation at MK at 2:40! Which we can’t cancel without being charged $30.

Oh and apparently my daughter and I both bought G+ for the 3 of us today because I have two receipts and different transactions. Wonder if the $45 will be refunded from one of them!?

I can’t understand how they can expect you to make ADRs, which you need this week in January!!, something I can’t believe, and then just assign any time of day for the rides?

They have basically forced us to be major planners, but none of that matters now. I’m NOT a planner by nature, and our first big family trip back in 2009, we didn’t book anything except our hotel and a dinner show. We were able to walk up to most restaurants and get a time. Now, we can’t even get into a restaurant without making it so far in advance and then be at the mercy of some IT nightmare to even try and get on rides.


----------



## mom2rtk

ccbloom said:


> Not sure how this will pan out for us. We are on day 6 of our trip and I’m beyond frustrated with G+. We’ve paid for it 2 or 3 days and have ridden far fewer rides in our time here than on any of our past 15 trips.
> 
> This morning we got up at 6:55am (me and 15 year old daughter) to try and get a SDD time. I saw a 10:15am pass. Selected and paid for G+ and got an error message. My charge went through, but the pass res did not. Nothing else available. Kept checking and saw a few later in the day that would not work for us and I was not booking them because to cancel and rebook would be nearly impossible. Saw another 10:15 after an immediate refresh. Grabbed it quickly - “Please return 2:40-3:40 for your experience”. What??!!!! We have a dining reservation at MK at 2:40! Which we can’t cancel without being charged $30.
> 
> Oh and apparently my daughter and I both bought G+ for the 3 of us today because I have two receipts and different transactions. Wonder if the $45 will be refunded from one of them!?
> 
> I can’t understand how they can expect you to make ADRs, which you need this week in January!!, something I can’t believe, and then just assign any time of day for the rides?
> 
> They have basically forced us to be major planners, but none of that matters now. I’m NOT a planner by nature, and our first big family trip back in 2009, we didn’t book anything except our hotel and a dinner show. We were able to walk up to most restaurants and get a time. Now, we can’t even get into a restaurant without making it so far in advance and then be at the mercy of some IT nightmare to even try and get on rides.


WTH? What a mess. Those charge errors should not be going on. That's the bare minimum of service expectations.

I would stop by guest relations at the park when you have time (or look for one of the blue umbrellas in the park) and let them know how that all went down.


----------



## Aluminum Falcon

ccbloom said:


> They have basically forced us to be major planners, but none of that matters now. I’m NOT a planner by nature, and our first big family trip back in 2009, we didn’t book anything except our hotel and a dinner show. We were able to walk up to most restaurants and get a time. Now, we can’t even get into a restaurant without making it so far in advance and then be at the mercy of some IT nightmare to even try and get on rides.



I remember those days when i was a kid, but welcome to the digital age, for better or worse, there is no turning back now.


----------



## ccbloom

Aluminum Falcon said:


> I remember those days when i was a kid, but welcome to the digital age, for better or worse, there is no turning back now.



And that’s fine! We acclimated to planning ahead and making all reservations in advance, which is what they wanted us to do. But now, it’s make this res in advance, but wait until day-of to see *if* you get on rides without a wait that you’re paying extra to do so…as long as they don’t interfere with the other plans you’ve made.

The issue is that WDW is expensive (and even more so now). But we’ve always paid for it and even bought DVC. So with the cost, the planning made sense to get the most out of your days here. This week it seems like we’ve wasted so much time, and it’s not relaxing time. I’m not a gambler by nature, and it seems like that’s what we are doing with G+


----------



## DisneyFive

When I first saw the G+ announcement I thought they were catering to the "lowest common denominator" guest.  Those that refused to plan their vacation, at all.  Basically those that would show up at a park and then be frustrated that the lines were so long.  "Fastpass what?  You must have to pay for that."  "Why is everyone skipping ahead of us in that other line?"  "Must be nice to afford to skip the lines!"

I thought Disney was creating a system that put everyone back on a level playing field, but they managed to screw that up too.  G+ is basically the old paper FP system, but with ILL's thrown in to screw that up too.  Also, because G+ is available to everyone on their devices prior to even getting to a park, rides "sell out" much faster than before, causing the _need_ to be up so dang early every day to get your precious rides.

With paper FP's, it was first come first serve.  You couldn't get FP's until you were physically in the park.  There was no getting up at 7am each day.  You just needed to be at the park at the true rope drop.  FP's wouldn't run out so fast like SDD does now (because it wasn't digital).  You had to physically be in line at the machine to get the FP, and yes, you got the next available time just like G+.  The only negative for offsite guests was if their park had EMH that day, the main headliner FP might be pushed out pretty late by the time you arrived due to resort guests having first access to the FP machines.

_Now_, offsite guests might be locked out of ILL altogether once park hours open up due to resort guests scooping up so much at 7am.  Sure Disney releases more around park open, but there's no guarantee that you will get that precious ROTR, etc...

By the time FP+ was "perfected" in 2019, it was an incredible system.  It just didn't do well for those who refused to plan.  For those of us that put just one ounce into our planning, it was awesome.  Free.  No need to get up early, at all.  You already had your three rides booked in each park before you arrived for your vacation.  (and if you didn't, you could still do all the headliners day of, except maybe FOP or SDD)

Sigh, hopefully this negativity is coming through loud and clear to Disney.  Blow up G+.  Give us back the FP+ framework.  Charge the same as G+.  Heck even keep the two ILL at each park, but give us back our sleep and ability to prebook 3!

Dan


----------



## ccbloom

mom2rtk said:


> WTH? What a mess. Those charge errors should not be going on. That's the bare minimum of service expectations.
> 
> I would stop by guest relations at the park when you have time (or look for one of the blue umbrellas in the park) and let them know how that all went down.



We did that and, luckily, she changed it for us for immediate entry. I think it was only because we had a conflicting dining reservation. So we got on the ride. Just an aggravating experience. She said it holds the time for less than 5 seconds even if you’ve selected it.


----------



## mom2rtk

ccbloom said:


> We did that and, luckily, she changed it for us for immediate entry. I think it was only because we had a conflicting dining reservation. So we got on the ride. Just an aggravating experience. She said it holds the time for less than 5 seconds even if you’ve selected it.


Which isn't long enough clearly. And it's entirely within their control. I don't get it at all. Maybe try 15 or 30 seconds? Doesn't seem that complicated to test out.


----------



## SMF_mom23

Good heavens.... As time goes on and I read more and more about how the historically "slower" times are so crowded and Genie+ is frustrating to the point of being maddening, making it very difficult to enjoy a more relaxed WDW experience, the more I think, "Maybe we should just skip the WDW part of this trip and just hit USO; save the money and do an all-inclusive vacation or cruise over the holidays next year."  *sigh* 

I wonder how many people are "never going back" to WDW after their next (or last) trip....  I get that those on the boards are a small subset of the WDW fandom/parkgoers, but it's part of what makes me think so many "regular" WDW guests are going to stop going or take that once-in-a-lifetime trip and not only never go back, but spread the word of their dissatisfaction to the point that a significant amount of other people will no longer consider WDW vacations a must-do in the years to come.

Probably I'm thinking too much into it and giving G+ too much influence, but it seems the general trend of the stories/reviews I'm reading are that WDW just isn't worth it to more and more people.


----------



## ccbloom

SMF_mom23 said:


> I wonder how many people are "never going back" to WDW after their next (or last) trip.... I get that those on the boards are a small subset of the WDW fandom/parkgoers, but it's part of what makes me think so many "regular" WDW guests are going to stop going or take that once-in-a-lifetime trip and not only never go back, but spread the word of their dissatisfaction to the point that a significant amount of other people will no longer consider WDW vacations a must-do in the years to come.



It has definitely crossed our minds more than once this trip. And we’ve even talked at-length about what we might want to do instead, how much we could rent our points out for, and other details that hadn’t crossed our minds on past trips.

Something has just felt “off” this trip for me. I was trying to explain it to my husband. The spontaneity is gone. The little special things the cast members would do unexpectedly are few and far between if at all (the majority are pleasant, but there’s something missing), and the G+ stuff just put me over the edge a bit. We don’t get up at 7am on vacations. We didn’t care much about VQ’s. We loved knowing what rides we were doing and then hopping on something with a low wait as we passed by. I spent way too much time on my phone at MK yesterday, too.

All of this mixed with my daughter now being 15 and been here for most of her vacations, definitely has us thinking about other ways to spend our time and money. It’s a sad realization, and I may have even shed a couple tears.


----------



## morrik5

ccbloom said:


> It has definitely crossed our minds more than once this trip. And we’ve even talked at-length about what we might want to do instead, how much we could rent our points out for, and other details that hadn’t crossed our minds on past trips.
> 
> Something has just felt “off” this trip for me. I was trying to explain it to my husband. The spontaneity is gone. The little special things the cast members would do unexpectedly are few and far between if at all (the majority are pleasant, but there’s something missing), and the G+ stuff just put me over the edge a bit. We don’t get up at 7am on vacations. We didn’t care much about VQ’s. We loved knowing what rides we were doing and then hopping on something with a low wait as we passed by. I spent way too much time on my phone at MK yesterday, too.
> 
> All of this mixed with my daughter now being 15 and been here for most of her vacations, definitely has us thinking about other ways to spend our time and money. It’s a sad realization, and I may have even shed a couple tears.


Just got in tonight after spending all last week at WDW. Even our daughter mentioned the difference in overflowing trash cans and the inability to enjoy free Fast Passes and constantly being on MDE to see lower wait times.


----------



## Disturbia

mom2rtk said:


> WTH? What a mess. Those charge errors should not be going on. That's the bare minimum of service expectations.
> 
> I would stop by guest relations at the park when you have time (or look for one of the blue umbrellas in the park) and let them know how that all went down.


Unfortunately we’ve been to the umbrellas and they don’t do anything for an error message.  The error message was not for LLIA but for Genie+ RnRC.  I was told maybe someone cancelled for fewer people and I was booking for more so it didn’t go through.  Nothing they can do about it.

Now for conflicting reservations they will attempt to move it or you can ask a refund (we had to get a refund for ROTR because we had to leave and it conflicted with dining).


----------



## Disturbia

ccbloom said:


> We did that and, luckily, she changed it for us for immediate entry. I think it was only because we had a conflicting dining reservation. So we got on the ride. Just an aggravating experience. She said it holds the time for less than 5 seconds even if you’ve selected it.


It doesn’t hold the time.  In the video (at 7:28 mins) Molly selects 9:30 am and in her payment screen it’s 9:30 am but when she clicks final payment the LL books into the late evening- 7:25 pm, so you don’t have 5 seconds






If something like this happens with an LLIA (dining conflict), head down to the front desk at your resort  (it will be a long line and took me 30 mins) but they changed SDMT to something that didn’t conflict with dining.

https://www.disboards.com/threads/the-genie-usage-tips-and-strategy-only-thread.3857056/page-206


----------



## Kbrb

Disturbia said:


> It doesn’t hold the time.  In the video (at 7:28 mins) Molly selects 9:30 am and in her payment screen it’s 9:30 am but when she clicks final payment the LL books into the late evening- 7:25 pm, so you don’t have 5 seconds
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If something like this happens with an LLIA (dining conflict), head down to the front desk at your resort  (it will be a long line and took me 30 mins) but they changed SDMT to something that didn’t conflict with dining.
> 
> https://www.disboards.com/threads/the-genie-usage-tips-and-strategy-only-thread.3857056/page-206


Thats shocking IT just awful.  Disney are messing this up from top to bottom. Poor cast members having to deal with that every day. im sure 90% of people are cool but you know they are getting abuse.


----------



## Lisann

ccbloom said:


> It has definitely crossed our minds more than once this trip. And we’ve even talked at-length about what we might want to do instead, how much we could rent our points out for, and other details that hadn’t crossed our minds on past trips.
> 
> Something has just felt “off” this trip for me. I was trying to explain it to my husband. The spontaneity is gone. The little special things the cast members would do unexpectedly are few and far between if at all (the majority are pleasant, but there’s something missing), and the G+ stuff just put me over the edge a bit. We don’t get up at 7am on vacations. We didn’t care much about VQ’s. We loved knowing what rides we were doing and then hopping on something with a low wait as we passed by. I spent way too much time on my phone at MK yesterday, too.
> 
> All of this mixed with my daughter now being 15 and been here for most of her vacations, definitely has us thinking about other ways to spend our time and money. It’s a sad realization, and I may have even shed a couple tears.


Well said.

If you can (and everyone else), take the time to write to guest services. When they hear enough of the same complaints over and over by the thousands, maybe they’ll do something. 

Your sentiments have been echoed by so many. I do not want my face in my phone all the time, all day. It’s not enjoyable and I feel as if the “planning” never ends, even once you get there!

Disney… just give us back our three free Fastpasses…is that so flippin much to ask for??!!!


----------



## BadPinkTink

Lisann said:


> Disney… just give us back our three free Fastpasses…is that so flippin much to ask for??!!!


 yes from a business point of view it is too much to ask for. Businesses are continually moving forward, making changes and embracing new technology and ways of doing things. A business which changes with market and world changes is a business that survives. 

Disney have changed from the old Fastpass system to the new Genie system. As time progresses they will change and update this system but they wont ever go back to the old Fastpass system as it was in 2019. 

Businesses expect customer churn when changes happen and new systems , policies and procedures are implemented. It is expected that a % of repeat customers will drop off and not come back and its expected that there will be a % of new customers to replace the lost repeat customers.

This is whats happening now. The parks are still full, customer spend is up but the type of people visiting have changed since 2019.

At the end of the day, Disney dont care if the family in the park is a repeat customer or a new customer, as long as when the park closes the spend per customer number hits the budget target.


----------



## Lisann

BadPinkTink said:


> yes from a business point of view it is too much to ask for. Businesses are continually moving forward, making changes and embracing new technology and ways of doing things. A business which changes with market and world changes is a business that survives.
> 
> Disney have changed from the old Fastpass system to the new Genie system. As time progresses they will change and update this system but they wont ever go back to the old Fastpass system as it was in 2019.
> 
> Businesses expect customer churn when changes happen and new systems , policies and procedures are implemented. It is expected that a % of repeat customers will drop off and not come back and its expected that there will be a % of new customers to replace the lost repeat customers.
> 
> This is whats happening now. The parks are still full, customer spend is up but the type of people visiting have changed since 2019.
> 
> At the end of the day, Disney dont care if the family in the park is a repeat customer or a new customer, as long as when the park closes the spend per customer number hits the budget target.


I'm not talking from a change perspective of an old to a new system. I'm talking $$.  I'm sure the day will come that we will have to pay more to get into Fantasyland vs Tomorrowland, or pay extra to get near the castle, or pay a premium to go to "fill in the blank".  That's my point.  These "a la carte" changes are so sad.


----------



## Disturbia

I think more likely we are getting the $90 12 ride pass coming soon (already started/announced in Paris).  When pay per ride was launched there, the Genie+ was launched at WDW a few months later.

https://wdwnt.com/2022/04/confirmed...ultimate-to-skip-the-lines-at-12-attractions/


----------



## BroadwayHermione5

Disturbia said:


> I think more likely we are getting the $90 unlimited pass coming soon (already started in Paris).  When pay per ride was launched there, the Genie+ was launched at WDW a few months later.
> 
> https://wdwnt.com/2022/04/confirmed...ultimate-to-skip-the-lines-at-12-attractions/


So essentially like unlimited express pass at Universal. This is can get behind and was behind from the start. It should’ve been like Universal especially with hotels


----------



## Disturbia

Kbrb said:


> Thats shocking IT just awful.  Disney are messing this up from top to bottom. Poor cast members having to deal with that every day. im sure 90% of people are cool but you know they are getting abuse.


I wasn’t abusive (I had already screamed a few choice words trying to refresh); times disappeared completely but I knew of the second release between 7:15-7:17 am so I quickly made my way to the front desk.  I can unequivocally say having to go to the front desk in my pajamas and crazy hair and stand there for 30 mins instead of getting ready to leave for the parks was extremely stressful for me (no wonder so many guests are mad).  

In the video Molly has only 2 choices so I’m thinking she didn’t try exactly at 7 am.  I did time it exactly at 7 am from our resort (AOA) and when I clicked 9:30 am all times were available; it was surprising and disappointing that I got SDMT conflicting with dinner.  I didn’t stop to screenshot or anything but noticed the background said 9:30 am on my payment screen while it was grayed (payment was going through).  So definitely there is no holding for a few seconds, which even 2 seconds would be a great improvement


----------



## Disturbia

At $90 a day and for our family of 5 it would be $3,150 for 7 days.  It would force most people to shorten trips and Disney can make more money (less ticket discounts for longer trips).  ADR availability would be better as well.

On the flip side, we would buy only for MK (2 day) and Hs (1 day) so it would be $1,350 (similar cost as Genie+ and LLIA for us right now).  AK and Epcot would be a mess (long lines as it won’t be worth it to buy there).

We cancelled Topolinos dinner on HS day because of the uncertainty of Genie+ (Disney looses money on last min cancellations-$50 instead of $300).

Maybe they should also giveback after hours for AK (FOP tops ROTR for our family) and HS if they want to make more money.  Also, give all resort guests extra magic hours for each of the parks.  AOA suites cost more than some deluxe resort rooms.


----------



## Smugpugmug

Disturbia said:


> I think more likely we are getting the $90 12 ride pass coming soon (already started/announced in Paris).  When pay per ride was launched there, the Genie+ was launched at WDW a few months later.
> 
> https://wdwnt.com/2022/04/confirmed...ultimate-to-skip-the-lines-at-12-attractions/


I have a feeling that with WDW, knowing the demand and popularity of the parks, will have this cost more than $90. Or they will be forced to cap sales like Express Pass at Universal does. I could imagine a service like that costing the same or more than unlimited Express in the US parks.


----------



## BroadwayHermione5

Disturbia said:


> At $90 a day and for our family of 5 it would be $3,150 for 7 days.  It would force most people to shorten trips and Disney can make more money (less ticket discounts for longer trips).  ADR availability would be better as well.
> 
> On the flip side, we would buy only for MK (2 day) and Hs (1 day) so it would be $1,350 (similar cost as Genie+ and LLIA for us right now).  AK and Epcot would be a mess (long lines as it won’t be worth it to buy there).
> 
> We cancelled Topolinos dinner on HS day because of the uncertainty of Genie+ (Disney looses money on last min cancellations-$50 instead of $300).
> 
> Maybe they should also giveback after hours for AK (FOP tops ROTR for our family) and HS if they want to make more money.  Also, give all resort guests extra magic hours for each of the parks.  AOA suites cost more than some deluxe resort rooms.


This is a problem with express pass as well. We looked into it for USH this summer since we liked it at UOR…..even on the discount sight we use from our places of employment it was so expensive and not worth it


----------



## Aluminum Falcon

Disturbia said:


> I think more likely we are getting the $90 12 ride pass coming soon (already started/announced in Paris).  When pay per ride was launched there, the Genie+ was launched at WDW a few months later.
> 
> https://wdwnt.com/2022/04/confirmed...ultimate-to-skip-the-lines-at-12-attractions/


At WDW i would doubt that something like this is coming down the pipeline. It works for smaller/ less congested parks (ie Paris, and Universal). I just don't know how how a park as busy as WDW would be able to guarantee 12


----------



## EPCOT-O.G.

I wonder if they will break down different rides on an alphabetical classification system. For example, kiddie rides or less popular ones would be A, with the most sought after - Rise and the like- would be E’s. A digital ticket book, if you will. 

When many point out the increased costs of park tickets, defenders will respond with, “yes, but park admission didn’t factor in the costs of attractions.” So when you went to Disneyland in 1955 and paid a dollar to get in, you still had to pay for the attractions. Since then, park admission prices have increased 15x the cost of inflation, and now they’ve brought back the per-ride cost through Genie+ and ILL.


----------



## Aluminum Falcon

EPCOT-O.G. said:


> I wonder if they will break down different rides on an alphabetical classification system. For example, kiddie rides or less popular ones would be A, with the most sought after - Rise and the like- would be E’s. A digital ticket book, if you will.
> 
> When many point out the increased costs of park tickets, defenders will respond with, “yes, but park admission didn’t factor in the costs of attractions.” So when you went to Disneyland in 1955 and paid a dollar to get in, you still had to pay for the attractions. Since then, park admission prices have increased 15x the cost of inflation, and now they’ve brought back the per-ride cost through Genie+ and ILL.


Supply & Demand. They can charge all they want if someone is willing to pay, you could also argue that they weren't charging enough when the park first opened


----------



## nikem3

I'm fine with copying the universal method. Just also give top tier annual pass holders the express after 4 too!


----------



## Smugpugmug

nikem3 said:


> I'm fine with copying the universal method. Just also give top tier annual pass holders the express after 4 too!


A perk like that is able to work at Universal due to it being a less popular park than WDW. I don't see Disney giving that perk to WDW annual passholders if they did start selling a premier pass. Kind of like how Disney would never give deluxe resorts free Fastpass. I see a lot of people say that they only stay at the pricier Universal hotels just to get Express. Disney doesn't need to give an incentive for people to stay at their deluxe resorts. They're selling out anyway.


----------



## nikem3

I don't think from a PARK to PARK situation universal attendance is too dissimilar to Disney lately. Universal studios and IOA both average around 10-11 million. Fairly comparable to Epcot, Hollywood Studios, and Animal Kingdom. Magic Kingdom obviously blows that out of the water. 

But yeah, the hotel aspect is true.

I don't see them giving that perk to annual passholders either because they don't have to. There is no incentive for them to do it, especially since people are begging to buy annual passes right now. I'm just wishing. lol


----------



## maryj11

With the price increases of resorts, tickets, restaurants, and now paying to ride with genie + it’s to much! Also no free transportation to and from the airport!
We have gone every year since 2010. We are probably just going to go maybe every other year. Disney has just gotten so greedy we can’t pay for every year anymore.
I also do not like getting up by 7:00 every morning for genie + to make sure we get our favorite rides.
We went in December and still enjoyed ourselves and used genie which did help. I still prefer the old FastPass system where you already have your rides chosen before you get there and it was free.
I can imagine how confusing it might be for first timers and people who are spontaneous.


----------



## Disturbia

Aluminum Falcon said:


> At WDW i would doubt that something like this is coming down the pipeline. It works for smaller/ less congested parks (ie Paris, and Universal). I just don't know how how a park as busy as WDW would be able to guarantee 12


They could exclude the tier1 rides and include shows.  They’re very creative in this regard.


----------



## Aluminum Falcon

Disturbia said:


> They could exclude the tier1 rides and include shows.  They’re very creative in this regard.


Either way 12 rides a day guaranteed is still crazy to wrap my mind around, maybe I’m wrong, it just seems insane


----------



## Disturbia

nikem3 said:


> I don't think from a PARK to PARK situation universal attendance is too dissimilar to Disney lately. Universal studios and IOA both average around 10-11 million. Fairly comparable to Epcot, Hollywood Studios, and Animal Kingdom. Magic Kingdom obviously blows that out of the water.
> 
> But yeah, the hotel aspect is true.
> 
> I don't see them giving that perk to annual passholders either because they don't have to. There is no incentive for them to do it, especially since people are begging to buy annual passes right now. I'm just wishing. lol


I believe they want to lower pass holders attendance as people who are flying in staying onsite are the big spenders (suckers like us who still haven’t bought DVC or annual passes).


----------



## nikem3

Disturbia said:


> They could exclude the tier1 rides and include shows.  They’re very creative in this regard.


This, and it will be tiered pricing like Universal. For instance, at the end of May right now, its $259.99 for a single use express pass for one park. With the amount people pay for trips, the number they sell will be limited. It would definitely work.


----------



## shawthorne44

nikem3 said:


> I don't think from a PARK to PARK situation universal attendance is too dissimilar to Disney lately. Universal studios and IOA both average around 10-11 million. Fairly comparable to Epcot, Hollywood Studios, and Animal Kingdom. Magic Kingdom obviously blows that out of the water.
> 
> But yeah, the hotel aspect is true.
> 
> I don't see them giving that perk to annual passholders either because they don't have to. There is no incentive for them to do it, especially since people are begging to buy annual passes right now. I'm just wishing. lol



And if you add up the fast pass worthy attractions at the two parks at Universal and the three parks at Disney (not including MK), Universal has more.


----------



## Disturbia

nikem3 said:


> This, and it will be tiered pricing like Universal. For instance, at the end of May right now, its $259.99 for a single use express pass for one park. With the amount people pay for trips, the number they sell will be limited. It would definitely work.


Can we honestly say we won’t miss Genie+?    What will this new pass be called?  Robbinghood?


----------



## Disturbia

shawthorne44 said:


> And if you add up the fast pass worthy attractions at the two parks at Universal and the three parks at Disney (not including MK), Universal has more.


But that didn’t stop them from implementing a pay per ride system even though Genie+ is not worth it in AK and Epcot (you don’t save 3 hours)



https://touringplans.com/blog/how-much-time-can-i-save-with-genie-at-wdw/


----------



## Aluminum Falcon

Disturbia said:


> But that didn’t stop them from implementing a pay per ride system even though Genie+ is not worth it in AK and Epcot (you don’t save 3 hours)
> 
> View attachment 667387
> 
> https://touringplans.com/blog/how-much-time-can-i-save-with-genie-at-wdw/


The average here is about 2 hours, taking MK and HS out of the mix it is a little better than 90 minutes. saving up to 2 hours a day doesn't seem terrible in my mind that seems pretty reasonable. I agree you don't need it for AK, & EP, but I can see where there is some value there


----------



## Disturbia

Aluminum Falcon said:


> The average here is about 2 hours, taking MK and HS out of the mix it is a little better than 90 minutes. saving up to 2 hours a day doesn't seem terrible in my mind that seems pretty reasonable. I agree you don't need it for AK, & EP, but I can see where there is some value there


For us, we bought it for our entire trip because Epcot was checkin and checkout day so we had limited time and AK day we sleep in and go late or use the evening as a pool day.  We have to utilize rider switch so any time saved (even 114 mins) is worth it for us.


----------



## Disturbia

shawthorne44 said:


> And if you add up the fast pass worthy attractions at the two parks at Universal and the three parks at Disney (not including MK), Universal has more.


It doesn’t matter how many genie+ worthy rides are there.  I’m sure it will be worded as ‘up to 12 rides’.  The goal is not to save you time as much as it is to reduce the number of people buying while making more money than the current system.


----------



## mickeyluv'r

Disturbia said:


> But that didn’t stop them from implementing a pay per ride system even though Genie+ is not worth it in AK and Epcot (you don’t save 3 hours)
> 
> View attachment 667387
> 
> https://touringplans.com/blog/how-much-time-can-i-save-with-genie-at-wdw/


I think this chart is only semi-true.  If you win the G+ lottery, then yes, G+ saves time. 

If you don't win the lottery (HS, AK), then the value is less apparent. I don't think it is really ever worthwhile at Epcot. For one thing, a G+ is of questionable value for Soarin', because the G+ queue for Soarin' is relatively slow -not anywhere near as fast as most G+ queues. .  So that really only leaves Test Track.  

And with any given ride, the waits are going to be variable over the course of a day, not a fixed number. Magic Kingdom has enough attractions to even out the crowds a bit. If you don't get Jungle Cruise, you still have multiple very worthwhile attractions for round 1, plus a solpid pool of worthwhile second round of attractions for your 2nd and 3rd passes. In Epcot, you may well be able to ride TT with a minimal wait.

In HS, if you miss Slinky...that's a big hit.  though I tend to think HS is about to be far less popular. Call me when Slinky passes are available until 10am. Then G+ will be less of a gamble, but the value of G+ might look even more like Epcot.

The other maybe problem with trying to create a chart like this is that G+ value depends on how many hours you can be in the park.  If you can be there all day- more value. If you are in the park from noon to close/picking passes at 7am- decent value.  If however, you can only stay until 2pm, G+ is of minimal value.

In this case, average is of some value, but also somewhat unreliable, IMO.


----------



## Aluminum Falcon

mickeyluv'r said:


> I think this chart is only semi-true.  If you win the G+ lottery, then yes, G+ saves time.
> 
> If you don't win the lottery (HS, AK), then the value is less apparent. I don't think it is really ever worthwhile at Epcot. For one thing, a G+ is of questionable value for Soarin', because the G+ queue for Soarin' is relatively slow -not anywhere near as fast as most G+ queues. .  So that really only leaves Test Track.
> 
> And with any given ride, the waits are going to be variable over the course of a day, not a fixed number. Magic Kingdom has enough attractions to even out the crowds a bit. If you don't get Jungle Cruise, you still have multiple very worthwhile attractions for round 1, plus a solpid pool of worthwhile second round of attractions for your 2nd and 3rd passes. In Epcot, you may well be able to ride TT with a minimal wait.
> 
> In HS, if you miss Slinky...that's a big hit.  though I tend to think HS is about to be far less popular. Call me when Slinky passes are available until 10am. Then G+ will be less of a gamble, but the value of G+ might look even more like Epcot.
> 
> The other maybe problem with trying to create a chart like this is that G+ value depends on how many hours you can be in the park.  If you can be there all day- more value. If you are in the park from noon to close/picking passes at 7am- decent value.  If however, you can only stay until 2pm, G+ is of minimal value.
> 
> In this case, average is of some value, but also somewhat unreliable, IMO.


Some of the pitfalls you've listed here were the same with FP+, especially when talking about ride availability, or time spent in the park. I can't tell you how many passes we used to leave on the table because we wanted to go back and relax by the pool. Biggest difference to me is that the price isn't baked into admission, and you don't have them ahead of time, those are not in any way small changes, but i think the rest is relatively the same as FP+


----------



## mickeyluv'r

Aluminum Falcon said:


> Some of the pitfalls you've listed here were the same with FP+, especially when talking about ride availability, or time spent in the park. I can't tell you how many passes we used to leave on the table because we wanted to go back and relax by the pool. Biggest difference to me is that the price isn't baked into admission, and you don't have them ahead of time, those are not in any way small changes, but i think the rest is relatively the same as FP+


To some extent that is true, as you say, FP+ was not an upcharge.  I left many paper FP on the table, but not FP+.  With every minute now monetized, every minute counts. 

FP+ changed over time, but as of 2018 it was easy to modify.  Alas though, FP+ vs. G+ wasn't the point of my post.  The aim of my post was more strictly on the value of paying for G+ in each park.  It clearly saves time in MK, but I'm not currently eager to buy it in any of the other parks.  

I'm not horrified by the idea of an upcharge, but I aim to be selective.  As of today, if I was going to spend $15 in Epcot or AK, I'd spend it on Rat/FoP.  With an ILL, I choose the return time, and if I choose a late morning time, then I KNOW my pass will = beating the midday rush. 

Otherwise, I like all the rides, and previously opted to ride all of them.  These days though, it is far less hassle to just skip 1 headliner in each park.   If I skip 7D, I save $15, no 120minute queue, and I am not part of the morning stampede. Triple bonus! In Epcot, I skip either Soarin' or FEA. (do one/skip the other).  Giving up 1 = 60% less hassle, unless waits are unusually short.  

For me, I have been on everything in HS, but I will not return.  HS just isn't worth the hassle/aggravation.  HS is bad on a good day, but when headliners go down- ugh!  It becomes a nightmare, and you can't leave until 2pm.  No thanks.  Rise is WAAYYY too unreliable.  At least if all of Epcot's attractions went down (they don't), there are still many things to do/see. HS had very little beyond Slinky, Rise, TSM, ToT, and RnRC.  MF's preshow/exterior looks neat, but the 'game' itself is very boring. MF deserves better. ToT is also barely limping these days.  HS just isn't a reliable bet.


----------



## Peach026

Not a fan of G+ here but in forced to use it this coming week. The one time I tried it failed miserably for me so I could use some help. What are your favorite YouTubers that have how to videos on GP? When I Google my favs (the dis, allears) their videos are super old and not up to date since they made adjustments right around thanksgiving. Thank you friends! I leave tomorrow and am excited - but NOT excited about GP


----------



## Disturbia

mickeyluv'r said:


> I think this chart is only semi-true.  If you win the G+ lottery, then yes, G+ saves time.
> 
> If you don't win the lottery (HS, AK), then the value is less apparent. I don't think it is really ever worthwhile at Epcot. For one thing, a G+ is of questionable value for Soarin', because the G+ queue for Soarin' is relatively slow -not anywhere near as fast as most G+ queues. .  So that really only leaves Test Track.
> 
> And with any given ride, the waits are going to be variable over the course of a day, not a fixed number. Magic Kingdom has enough attractions to even out the crowds a bit. If you don't get Jungle Cruise, you still have multiple very worthwhile attractions for round 1, plus a solpid pool of worthwhile second round of attractions for your 2nd and 3rd passes. In Epcot, you may well be able to ride TT with a minimal wait.
> 
> In HS, if you miss Slinky...that's a big hit.  though I tend to think HS is about to be far less popular. Call me when Slinky passes are available until 10am. Then G+ will be less of a gamble, but the value of G+ might look even more like Epcot.
> 
> The other maybe problem with trying to create a chart like this is that G+ value depends on how many hours you can be in the park.  If you can be there all day- more value. If you are in the park from noon to close/picking passes at 7am- decent value.  If however, you can only stay until 2pm, G+ is of minimal value.
> 
> In this case, average is of some value, but also somewhat unreliable, IMO.


Here is a comparison Molly vs Quincy; personally I saved about 4,000 steps with Genie+.


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## BridgetR3

Disturbia said:


> Here is a comparison Molly vs Quincy; personally I saved about 4,000 steps with Genie+.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 668057
> View attachment 668058



Whoa!  I would not count on this being your personal experience for anyone.  Even at 7 a.m., if you choose to go for Jungle Cruise, the chances of getting it early in the morning are slim to none.  If you get it at 7 a.m. and its time slot isn't until 1:30 or so, then you can not make a second pass until 11 a.m. so from 9-11 a.m. (at the minimum) you will be waiting in lines. 

G+ helps with the ones you are able to get but it does not eliminate all of your lines, especially if you ride the bigger rides.


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## Disturbia

BridgetR3 said:


> Whoa!  I would not count on this being your personal experience for anyone.  Even at 7 a.m., if you choose to go for Jungle Cruise, the chances of getting it early in the morning are slim to none.  If you get it at 7 a.m. and its time slot isn't until 1:30 or so, then you can not make a second pass until 11 a.m. so from 9-11 a.m. (at the minimum) you will be waiting in lines.
> 
> G+ helps with the ones you are able to get but it does not eliminate all of your lines, especially if you ride the bigger rides.


I’ve always booked JC first and have gotten it between 9 am-11 am.  If you can’t get that, book Splash or something else and ride JC standby.  Booking the second Genie+ ride (even POC) was tricky and I had to cancel one that booked at 3 pm when I clicked 12, but by refreshing I was able to get it at 12:50 pm.

Our second Mk day, booked JC first (around 10 am) and then I booked splash (11:30 am) for our second ride and then rode POC standby.  The ride posted time was 45, it certainly didn’t look like that since queue was indoor only.  Actual wait was 25 mins.  Then booked Big Thunder for after lunch.


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## Jrb1979

Here is a quote from Josh D'Amaro about Genie+

The adoption has been far greater than we initially expected,” D’Amaro said. “That’s a good sign. People want the product. We’re able to see that guests who are purchasing Genie+ are getting on more of their preferred attractions. We know they’re moving around the parks in ways that are productive for them and, quite frankly, productive for the park. We can make sure that everybody is enjoying a great experience, and where there are pinch points we can redirect people. The early results are strong for us, but are we done? Not even close.”


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## butterscotchcollins

Jrb1979 said:


> Here is a quote from Josh D'Amaro about Genie+
> 
> The adoption has been far greater than we initially expected,” D’Amaro said. “That’s a good sign. People want the product. We’re able to see that guests who are purchasing Genie+ are getting on more of their preferred attractions. We know they’re moving around the parks in ways that are productive for them and, quite frankly, productive for the park. We can make sure that everybody is enjoying a great experience, and where there are pinch points we can redirect people. The early results are strong for us, but are we done? Not even close.”


…..that’s not encouraging. At all.


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## Jennasis

Disney and Genie+ can kiss my grits. We just finished a great stay without using Genie+ at all. We rode everything.

Rope drop is key. Early Entry is super important.


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## Aluminum Falcon

Jrb1979 said:


> Here is a quote from Josh D'Amaro about Genie+
> 
> The adoption has been far greater than we initially expected,” D’Amaro said. “That’s a good sign. People want the product. We’re able to see that guests who are purchasing Genie+ are getting on more of their preferred attractions. We know they’re moving around the parks in ways that are productive for them and, quite frankly, productive for the park. We can make sure that everybody is enjoying a great experience, and where there are pinch points we can redirect people. The early results are strong for us, but are we done? Not even close.”


To me, this means that Disney is attempting to fine tune Genie, they seem to be in a data collecting time period right now. I am interested to see what this evolves into


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## itf

Aluminum Falcon said:


> To me, this means that Disney is attempting to fine tune Genie, they seem to be in a data collecting time period right now. I am interested to see what this evolves into



Got to say as someone going at the end of August I've been very nervous about the beginning of August date for the end of the paid LL in each park being part of G+. I'm hoping they won't make radical changes then giving me no time to learn how they work. Or indeed another bait and switch given I booked this trip before G+ even existed.


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## Aluminum Falcon

itf said:


> Got to say as someone going at the end of August I've been very nervous about the beginning of August date for the end of the paid LL in each park being part of G+. I'm hoping they won't make radical changes then giving me no time to learn how they work. Or indeed another bait and switch given I booked this trip before G+ even existed.


this is just a guess, but i think they will make small changes, see how they work, and then remove them or build on depending. Major changes to me would just be too much of a risk


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## planplanplan

We used Genie+ for a three day trip last week and it worked really well.  In three park days with two little kids we managed to ride almost everything.  I loved being able to stack evening LL so we did pool time or shows and low wait things in the afternoon and had super fun evenings from 4-8 PM. 

We also used it use-as-you-go at MK and were able to walk onto ride after ride with almost no wait. (E.g., tap in at Speedway, book LL for Space, ride Speedway, stop at bathrooms, tap in at Space, book LL for Buzz, ride Space, get snack, tap into Buzz, get LL for teacups, ride Buzz, etc.)

It also helped us rope drop AK, so we could do FOP, Navi, and EE, before walking onto KS with a LL at 8:45 AM, followed by a 9 AM LL at Lion King.  Then we stacked for an evening at MK.  It worked great.

We had an absolutely terrible experience with FP+ on our 2019 trip.  Ride outages and pre-booked FP meant we couldn't adjust to things we missed because of thunderstorms.  I also couldn't adjust to the things my kids wanted to ride and things they didn't (once I knew what they deemed as "too scary"), as everything was booked up.  We had a short trip so I wasn't able to get FP for headliners (looking at you FOP and 7DMT) and the times for our other FP were inconvenient.  Thunderstorms also meant everyone in the parks had gobs of anytime FP so every FP line was loooong.  It was a mess.  And I'm not evening mentioning the tech issues.  We had to go to guest services between every single ride, if not between every rider switch.  Blech.  Good riddance.

I budgeted Genie+ into the cost of our short trip and stopped thinking about the extra charge.  Having access to the short waits was worth it.  I might feel differently during a busy time when there aren't enough LL available, but it worked great for us.


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## mickeyluv'r

Jennasis said:


> Disney and Genie+ can kiss my grits. We just finished a great stay without using Genie+ at all. We rode everything.
> 
> Rope drop is key. Early Entry is super important.


Huh.

When we went, we thought RD was now pretty much useless.  On our MK day, for example, we started towards Space Mtn, only to learn it was down.  By then, people were streaming into Buzz and the cars.  7D was already a joke.   We did Pooh, but it was probably 10 by then.  After Pooh, Fantasyland was a mob scene, and it wasn't even official Rope Drop.


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## butterscotchcollins

Jennasis said:


> Disney and Genie+ can kiss my grits. We just finished a great stay without using Genie+ at all. We rode everything.
> 
> Rope drop is key. Early Entry is super important.


This is the energy I’m here for


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## Jennasis

mickeyluv'r said:


> Huh.
> 
> When we went, we thought RD was now pretty much useless.  On our MK day, for example, we started towards Space Mtn, only to learn it was down.  By then, people were streaming into Buzz and the cars.  7D was already a joke.   We did Pooh, but it was probably 10 by then.  After Pooh, Fantasyland was a mob scene, and it wasn't even official Rope Drop.



Plans dont/won't always work sadly...On our MK day we hit Space  Buzz and HM during early entry, then we did Splash and BTMRR with small waits. Then we snacked on egg rolls and citrus swirls before hitting Tiki Room, Small World, country bears and Philharmagic. Took a midday break for lunch at Steakhouse 71 and went back to resort to swim/nap. we came back to the park at 6:30, rode 7DMT with an iLL$, the carousel, peoplemover, got ice cream and snagged spot in the hub for Enchantment (which I would have skipped except my parents really wanted to see it) and then hit Pirates after.  Longest wait of the day was for BtMRR at 25 min.

Our best day was our DHS day.  Got there just before 8am and was maybe 10th in line at the tapstiles.  They let us in at 8:30 and we walked straight to ToT (knowing they are only running one side and that lines get huge here it's a smart rope drop move)...we walked on ToT and RnRC, then went over to SDD where it was a 10 min wait and still pre-park opening.  After SDD we went to TSMM and had a 10 minute wait, then to MMRR with a 20 min wait.  Then we mobile ordered breakfast from Ronto's Roasters, ate a leisurely breakfast, used our 10:20am iLL$ for Rise (HUGE hit with the fam) and then finished with a 45 minute wait for Smuggler's Run.  On the way out we walked on Star Tours.  All of this done by 12:30.  After that we all left for a midday break to swim and relax and then met at Disney Springs for a dinner at Homecomin' which we didn't have an  ADR for, just walked up and got in.


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## Jrb1979

Aluminum Falcon said:


> To me, this means that Disney is attempting to fine tune Genie, they seem to be in a data collecting time period right now. I am interested to see what this evolves into


To me the key phrase is "redirecting people". While they may fine tune it, it don't see it being in the guests favor. I see it going up in price and hopefully cut the amount of people that can buy it. Less people that have it the better it would work.


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## BridgetR3

Disturbia said:


> I’ve always booked JC first and have gotten it between 9 am-11 am.  If you can’t get that, book Splash or something else and ride JC standby.  Booking the second Genie+ ride (even POC) was tricky and I had to cancel one that booked at 3 pm when I clicked 12, but by refreshing I was able to get it at 12:50 pm.
> 
> Our second Mk day, booked JC first (around 10 am) and then I booked splash (11:30 am) for our second ride and then rode POC standby.  The ride posted time was 45, it certainly didn’t look like that since queue was indoor only.  Actual wait was 25 mins.  Then booked Big Thunder for after lunch.
> 
> View attachment 668080
> View attachment 668081


I'm definitely not arguing that it can happen....just that it doesn't happen for everyone and definitely not often.  We are about to be at Disney for the third time in the last 8 months.  Sometimes I get really lucky and sometimes I choose a ride at 9:45 a.m. and by the time it refreshes, it bumps it WAY out.  Heck, last trip I bought a Remy for 10:15 a.m. and by the time I paid it had jumped from 10:15 to 2:30 to finally showing it confirmed at 7:40 - 8:40.  

Also, those of us who are in the parks often and practice with G+ or virtual queues often are going to have a better chance than the run of the mill family on their once in a lifetime trip.  I help people plan Disney vacations for a fun side job and my clients almost NEVER get the rides they want at the times they want.  This is so so frustrating to them because not only do they have to wake up at 6:50 a.m. to try and get the ride they want but then they can click on it and it looks like they have it only to not be fast enough in the end.  

I'm just saying that the average person is not going to be able to get all of those rides done as quickly as that blog post/chart claimed you could.


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## kc51570

Jennasis said:


> Plans dont/won't always work sadly...On our MK day we hit Space  Buzz and HM during early entry, then we did Splash and BTMRR with small waits. Then we snacked on egg rolls and citrus swirls before hitting Tiki Room, Small World, country bears and Philharmagic. Took a midday break for lunch at Steakhouse 71 and went back to resort to swim/nap. we came back to the park at 6:30, rode 7DMT with an iLL$, the carousel, peoplemover, got ice cream and snagged spot in the hub for Enchantment (which I would have skipped except my parents really wanted to see it) and then hit Pirates after.  Longest wait of the day was for BtMRR at 25 min.
> 
> Our best day was our DHS day.  Got there just before 8am and was maybe 10th in line at the tapstiles.  They let us in at 8:30 and we walked straight to ToT (knowing they are only running one side and that lines get huge here it's a smart rope drop move)...we walked on ToT and RnRC, then went over to SDD where it was a 10 min wait and still pre-park opening.  After SDD we went to TSMM and had a 10 minute wait, then to MMRR with a 20 min wait.  Then we mobile ordered breakfast from Ronto's Roasters, ate a leisurely breakfast, used our 10:20am iLL$ for Rise (HUGE hit with the fam) and then finished with a 45 minute wait for Smuggler's Run.  All of this done by 12:30.  After that we all left for a midday break to swim and relax and then met at Disney Springs for a dinner at Homecomin' which we didn't have an  ADR for, just walked up and got in.


Plans definitely don’t always work out. On one of our HS days, RnR, ToT, and Rise were all down at open. We paid for genie and focused on MFSR because we had done SDD earlier in the week. Our 2nd pick we got TSMM (that was the best ride available) and the only ride left for our third pick was Star Tours. We called it a day at noon and went back to the pool. RnR was down most of the week we were there. My family never got to ride it. It was also down when we were there in July. So a bad open with multiple headliners down pretty much destroys any touring plan and eliminates any future genie availability for the day.  
Some people have good luck. Others don’t-luckily we had 3 different times during the week we went to HS-but still missed out on ToT and RnR. I feel bad for people who only had that one disastrous day at HS.


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## Kbrb

Jrb1979 said:


> Here is a quote from Josh D'Amaro about Genie+
> 
> The adoption has been far greater than we initially expected,” D’Amaro said. “That’s a good sign. People want the product. We’re able to see that guests who are purchasing Genie+ are getting on more of their preferred attractions. We know they’re moving around the parks in ways that are productive for them and, quite frankly, productive for the park. We can make sure that everybody is enjoying a great experience, and where there are pinch points we can redirect people. The early results are strong for us, but are we done? Not even close.”


Truth.
LMAO we scared everyone into buying this crap by inflating the wait times on the boards. We never expected them to fall for it but they did. We are now tracking them and in order to make more money If we notice a crowd we will send them to a shop.....Financially early reports are we are swimming in easy cash, will we charge more for less............YOU BET YOUR ***!" 

Meanwhile their trip adviser score gets closer to 4* all the time.

D'amro is the Darth vader to chepeks Emperor


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## Disturbia

BridgetR3 said:


> I'm definitely not arguing that it can happen....just that it doesn't happen for everyone and definitely not often.  We are about to be at Disney for the third time in the last 8 months.  Sometimes I get really lucky and sometimes I choose a ride at 9:45 a.m. and by the time it refreshes, it bumps it WAY out.  Heck, last trip I bought a Remy for 10:15 a.m. and by the time I paid it had jumped from 10:15 to 2:30 to finally showing it confirmed at 7:40 - 8:40.
> 
> Also, those of us who are in the parks often and practice with G+ or virtual queues often are going to have a better chance than the run of the mill family on their once in a lifetime trip.  I help people plan Disney vacations for a fun side job and my clients almost NEVER get the rides they want at the times they want.  This is so so frustrating to them because not only do they have to wake up at 6:50 a.m. to try and get the ride they want but then they can click on it and it looks like they have it only to not be fast enough in the end.
> 
> I'm just saying that the average person is not going to be able to get all of those rides done as quickly as that blog post/chart claimed you could.


That’s been true of FP+ as well.  You had to book them on the dot and longer trips to get the most coveted passes. 

We fly in from out of state and stay 5-6 nights.  We adapt to whatever is thrown at us.  I’ve had SDMT (LLIA$) change from 9:30 am to something like 6 pm (conflicted with Dinner ADRs).  In that case, go to the front desk immediately and they can help fix it (before off site guests).

In the video below same thing happened to Molly (7 min 28 sec) but given that there were only 2 time slots I don’t think she was booking SDMT at 7 am.






Personally, I would rather have after hours for HS and MK than deal with Genie+


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## Disturbia

Peach026 said:


> Not a fan of G+ here but in forced to use it this coming week. The one time I tried it failed miserably for me so I could use some help. What are your favorite YouTubers that have how to videos on GP? When I Google my favs (the dis, allears) their videos are super old and not up to date since they made adjustments right around thanksgiving. Thank you friends! I leave tomorrow and am excited - but NOT excited about GP


I like Allears and their videos are very detailed.  I also just type in Disneyworld and sort by date.  Paging Mr Morrow and Kyle Pallo are good for in park experience videos. 

I also subscribe to Touringplans (I paid for annual membership and they provide the quickest park hour change update so I can adjust dining), DFB (good tips) and WDW news today (ok).


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## Disturbia

Kbrb said:


> Truth.
> LMAO we scared everyone into buying this crap by inflating the wait times on the boards. We never expected them to fall for it but they did. We are now tracking them and in order to make more money If we notice a crowd we will send them to a shop.....Financially early reports are we are swimming in easy cash, will we charge more for less............YOU BET YOUR ***!"
> 
> Meanwhile their trip adviser score gets closer to 4* all the time.
> 
> D'amro is the Darth vader to chepeks Emperor


Come on Vadar was once a Jedi in training

I’m thinking Bib Fortuna to Jabba the Hut.


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## Leight19

I havent used genie plus but wanted to add some personal experience from our recent trip using lightening lane through das.  

1) The app was not the easiest to navigate for making selections and didn’t work at all on my older iPhone.  This may not be the case for genie plus but given it’s in same system I imagine I’d have similar issue.

2) The comparison of saved time waiting seems to be inflated since almost every lightening lane we did with das had waits beyond walk on. Most weren’t too bad but some were long enough they became an issue for our das family member so we couldn’t ride. Bottom line I feel they were putting way to many people through the lightening lane.

3) The app seems to be very glitched or difficult to use as almost every time we used lightening lane at least one cast member was held up with a party having issues with the process.  We never had issues on our das selection so may be better then we observed but many were upset with how it performed (our only issue was when son couldn’t tolerate the wait and had to leave mid queue it caused issue canceling current selection to make new one).


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## Disturbia

itf said:


> Got to say as someone going at the end of August I've been very nervous about the beginning of August date for the end of the paid LL in each park being part of G+. I'm hoping they won't make radical changes then giving me no time to learn how they work. Or indeed another bait and switch given I booked this trip before G+ even existed.


I think they’ll drop the Paris Premier Pass on us.  I believe that’s the reason why we don’t have any after hours events back (similar pricing and use those hours to issue passes).


----------

