# When do you think the border will reopen?



## mshanson3121

I know the closure has been extended to May 20th. When do you think we'll see the border re-opening? Do you think it'll be province by province depending on risk zones? All at once? Do you think individual provinces will require quarentine even after it opens? When do you personally want to see it reopen?


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## mshanson3121

Myself, I can see the closure being extended another 30 days. And I definitely think quarentine will be required depending on the province. 

That said, I really hope that border, at least the ME/NB border, opens up after May 20th. We live in a border town, and the shut down is hurting both sides.


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## mort1331

I hope we stay shut for longer..with the way the states are handling this do you really want to open to them early???


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## Fundytrail

Unless things change on both sides of the border soon I would be surprised to see them fully open this summer :-(


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## jamescanuck2001

I would expect both US and Canada would have to be at Stage 3 or Phase 3 of re-opening before the border is re-opened to non-essential travel.  So late June at the earliest.


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## ottawamom

Until people are able to go about their own daily business freely in this country I don't think we have any right to open the border. Lets make sure our residents can move and not spread anything before we allow anyone else in or out to set things back.

The border can stay closed to non essential traffic until there is a vaccine as far as I'm concerned.


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## hdrolfe

I agree we shouldn't rush to open the border. I also acknowledge that it is a difficult thing for many border towns. I have a friend whose family owns a cottage in the US. I am sure they would like to be able to gather there, but of course gathering isn't happening at this time any way. I look forward to cruising and visiting Disney again. I am not worried about getting it myself so much as passing it to others. 

My concern is that is seems a vaccine will be difficult to produce, and while I know there are multiple in trials, hoping they will work, I wonder if they will be effective and I don't think we can wait the possible years it will take for them to be produced and available world wide. I wonder if a more effective treatment will come first. 

With the provinces coming out with their reopening plans, while I hope we don't see any resurgence in cases, there will be cases that result. That was the point wasn't it? Slow this down so we don't overwhelm the hospitals. It wasn't about staying in isolation until COVID disappears. I don't believe we should rush to get out there, I am of the opinion we need better testing, to see who has it and who has had it. And we also have to hope that previous infection will offer protection, they still haven't determined if that is the case.


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## isabellea

My guess is July 5th, after Canada Day and 4th of July and I expect quarantine orders for people moving from one province to another or arriving from another country.


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## ilovetotravel1977

Whether the border opens or not isn't my main issue.

The bigger question is what medical travel insurance will look like for out of country travel.  

I'm curious if my work medical insurance through Blue Cross still covers hospital visits now.  I might even place an email to see if changes are coming to our plans.  And same with my mastercard travel insurance.

That is the big question mark I have right now...


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## Pumpkin1172

And even if we do get to travel outside of the country...the chances will be high that depending on where you travel to, we will have to self isolate for 14 days upon return.  Which makes it extremely hard to even think about traveling plus doing a self isolation, unless your lucky if you can work from home.  Even if we could travel, I would be using all my holidays for one week somewhere else.  I don't know if I'm willing to do that just to travel outside of Canada.


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## Fundytrail

This article indicates the boarders may stay closed until years end 

https://globalnews.ca/news/6872126/...we0QwKTA1lgHYvfikz-cXWWL_06CgSqVb7he-5O1zDWBs


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## starvenger

isabellea said:


> My guess is July 5th, after Canada Day and 4th of July and I expect quarantine orders for people moving from one province to another or arriving from another country.


That sounds reasonable. Might be a tad conservative, but I think it's gonna be a wait and see as to how the states and provinces that are reopening fare.



Fundytrail said:


> This article indicates the boarders may stay closed until years end
> 
> https://globalnews.ca/news/6872126/...we0QwKTA1lgHYvfikz-cXWWL_06CgSqVb7he-5O1zDWBs


I want to know how much work goes into becoming a professor of law AND epidemiology. Doing one would seem to be a lot on it's own.

It's an interesting article. I think the prof makes good points, but he concentrates on the science. I'd like to see an article to counterbalance this with views from a political and/or business perspective. Because closing the border until 2021 makes perfect sense from a science standpoint. But I don't think that any country's economy can withstand that.


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## Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina

As a Canadian citizen living in the US (due to DH's employment....he is also a Canadian citizen) it is my hope that the borders open ASAP.    We have a young adult son living in Ontario and elderly parents (one of whom has Alzheimer's Disease) from whom we are indefinitely separated.  While I understand the reason for the closure, it doesn't make it any easier to bear.

And before anyone jumps in with "well, that's the risk you took when you chose to leave Canada", NOTHING like this had ever happened in our lifetimes.  We were well educated and aware of the reasons which may cause us to be unable to travel home (visa/work permit issues, terrorism threats, those kinds of things) but "global pandemic" was not on anyone's radar when DH was transferred cross-border three year ago.


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## bababear_50

Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina said:


> As a Canadian citizen living in the US (due to DH's employment....he is also a Canadian citizen) it is my hope that the borders open ASAP.    We have a young adult son living in Ontario and elderly parents (one of whom has Alzheimer's Disease) from whom we are indefinitely separated.  While I understand the reason for the closure, it doesn't make it any easier to bear.
> 
> And before anyone jumps in with "well, that's the risk you took when you chose to leave Canada", NOTHING like this had ever happened in our lifetimes.  We were well educated and aware of the reasons which may cause us to be unable to travel home (visa/work permit issues, terrorism threats, those kinds of things) but "global pandemic" was not on anyone's radar when DH was transferred cross-border three year ago.



Hi Gina
My heart goes out to you Hon. I must be so hard being seperated from family right now. I know at least once a week seeing (from a distance in a park) my son is hard enough never mind not being able to see him at all.
Wishing you all the best!
Hugs
Mel


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## Frozen2014

Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina said:


> As a Canadian citizen living in the US (due to DH's employment....he is also a Canadian citizen) it is my hope that the borders open ASAP.    We have a young adult son living in Ontario and elderly parents (one of whom has Alzheimer's Disease) from whom we are indefinitely separated.  While I understand the reason for the closure, it doesn't make it any easier to bear.
> 
> And before anyone jumps in with "well, that's the risk you took when you chose to leave Canada", NOTHING like this had ever happened in our lifetimes.  We were well educated and aware of the reasons which may cause us to be unable to travel home (visa/work permit issues, terrorism threats, those kinds of things) but "global pandemic" was not on anyone's radar when DH was transferred cross-border three year ago.


I can't imagine.  It's not just travel for vacation for you, but separation from your immediate family.  Really things open up and this horrible virus is under control.


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## Sue M

Pumpkin1172 said:


> And even if we do get to travel outside of the country...the chances will be high that depending on where you travel to, we will have to self isolate for 14 days upon return.  Which makes it extremely hard to even think about traveling plus doing a self isolation, unless your lucky if you can work from home.  Even if we could travel, I would be using all my holidays for one week somewhere else.  I don't know if I'm willing to do that just to travel outside of Canada.


Yes, if we have to self isolate for 2 weeks after return from US will prevent many from crossing the border. And for me living in a border town it definitely won’t be worth one day shopping trips!  I’m missing Trader Joes!


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## isabellea

starvenger said:


> I want to know how much work goes into becoming a professor of law AND epidemiology. Doing one would seem to be a lot on it's own.



A few years ago my collaborator had a Ph.D student in microbiology who started law school while studying for her thesis defence. It was hectic but she did it. Law schools really like having Ph.D. as students. For example, to be a patent lawyer.


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## bcwife76

I can see the border being reopened either at the end of this current 30 day closure or directly after the Canada Day/4th of July weekend BUT with the 14 day mandatory quarantine still in place which for most of us (including Americans) would make travel still a non issue. Which of course still completely bums me out because we have trips planned for August (on the verge of cancelling that one) and October but it is what it is.


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## Pumpkin1172

Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina said:


> And before anyone jumps in with "well, that's the risk you took when you chose to leave Canada", NOTHING like this had ever happened in our lifetimes. We were well educated and aware of the reasons which may cause us to be unable to travel home (visa/work permit issues, terrorism threats, those kinds of things) but "global pandemic" was not on anyone's radar when DH was transferred cross-border three year ago.


I'm in northern Alberta and my daughter, her hubby and the new grandbaby are just outside the Calgary area.  It's killing me to not be able to see them.  My parents are in Saskatchewan and other family members as well.  I can totally relate to your situation.  We can't even go from province to province really.  

I can see keeping the boarder closed for a bit, until the numbers stabalize in the US more.   I don't think for either ecomony that they will close them forever.   Both countries need the tourism for those who are brave enough to travel across it.   I'm hoping that if there is travel between the 2 countries, that there will be mandated and actually enforced isolation of some sort before you can go out into public.  

I struggle with all of this.  At some point, we all will need to exposed to the virus.  We will all have to have it ( or have an immunization ) if it's one of those viruses where you get it once and your done.  As much as I don't want to be the one to spread it to someone else, who is at a higher risk.  But like the influenza virus, those who are at a higher risk take precautions.  I have a son who is a severe asthmatic with allergies.  Right now, his chances of dying from a severe asthma attack due to seasonal allergies are WAY higher than from the covid virus.  And yes,..people get extremely sick from the virus...but many don't.  This where I struggle with this.  It kills me to hear about outbreaks in long term care facilities.   I just struggle with all of it.  

The virus is here and it is NOT going away.  If the virus is a " you get it once and your immune " type virus or if it's more like an influenza virus, only time will tell.  That will also tell how our lives and new normal will look like.  The virus is still in it's early stages.  They don't have accurate records of how many people ACTUALLY have had it and didn't need much medical intervention vs who had it, was hospitalized vs those who have died from it.  I struggle with allllllllllll aspects of it!!!!  We can't continue to live like the boy in the bubble, but we also don't want to compromise those who are soooo vulnerable to it!!!  Alright...getting off my soap box now.


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## ilovetotravel1977

BlogMickey has a post up with some of the procedures that will be in place, mostly all cleaning though.


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## ilovetotravel1977

Will we need to quarantine for 14 days once in the US?


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## Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina

Pumpkin1172 said:


> I'm in northern Alberta and my daughter, her hubby and the new grandbaby are just outside the Calgary area.  It's killing me to not be able to see them.  My parents are in Saskatchewan and other family members as well.  I can totally relate to your situation.  We can't even go from province to province really.



Is the government monitoring province to province travel?  Can you be turned away at a provincial border?


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## hdrolfe

Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina said:


> Is the government monitoring province to province travel?  Can you be turned away at a provincial border?



I can't answer for Alberta to Sask but I know the bridges from Ottawa going TO Gatineau (Ontario to Quebec) are being monitored and only essential travel is allowed. Going the other way is not from what I understand. I imagine it depends on how many border points there are between provinces. 



ilovetotravel1977 said:


> Will we need to quarantine for 14 days once in the US?



That's a good question. Obviously for the essential workers right now they aren't, but I wonder if they open the border to non-essential if it will. I don't think either country has announced that yet as part of their plans.


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## bcwife76

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> Will we need to quarantine for 14 days once in the US?


In the US they seem to be doing that on a state by state basis. Right now Hawaii and Alaska have mandatory 14 day quarantines in place, I think Florida still has it for NY residents only. I don't know about any other states doing this.


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## bcwife76

The PM hasn't mentioned the cruising industry (AFAIK) since his initial announcement in early March about our ports being closed til July 1. Obviously one can not exist without the other (ie. No cruises at all until the US CAN border is open). So this basically squashes the Alaska cruising season. I know that some cruise lines have cancelled all AK sailings for this year while some have drastically cut back their sailings but still offer some. Realistically, the Alaska cruising season won't even take place this year, I'm assuming?


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## isabellea

Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina said:


> Is the government monitoring province to province travel?  Can you be turned away at a provincial border?



I know there are police checkpoints to go to ON from QC (OPP) and from ON to QC (SQ). Within QC there are even checkpoints between administrative regions. For example, regions like Bas St-Laurent (region closest to NB) or Abitibi (north) are sealed by police and no one goes in unless you have proper paperwork that proves you are essential.


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## StarSeven7

Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina said:


> As a Canadian citizen living in the US (due to DH's employment....he is also a Canadian citizen) it is my hope that the borders open ASAP.    We have a young adult son living in Ontario and elderly parents (one of whom has Alzheimer's Disease) from whom we are indefinitely separated.  While I understand the reason for the closure, it doesn't make it any easier to bear.
> 
> And before anyone jumps in with "well, that's the risk you took when you chose to leave Canada", NOTHING like this had ever happened in our lifetimes.  We were well educated and aware of the reasons which may cause us to be unable to travel home (visa/work permit issues, terrorism threats, those kinds of things) but "global pandemic" was not on anyone's radar when DH was transferred cross-border three year ago.


I feel ya! I’m in the same situation as an American citizen living in Canada (married to a canadian) with all my family just a few hours drive away in Michigan. We normally cross the border all the time to go visit. I have a SIL in Chicago in the same boat as well (Canadian married to an American). This closed border is brutal and I can’t wait for it to open back up! Once the border opens up, we will try to plan a visit to my family even if it requires a 14 day quarantine afterwards. If my DH is still working from home it won’t be much of an issue. If he’s back at the office then that would be a problem so I’m not sure if we’d do it then. My DH said “Yes, 100%!” When I proposed the idea to him yesterday as he’s very close to my family as well. We booked a camping trip in Maine/New Hampshire/Vermont for the beginning of July but we will most likely cancel that now, and probably concentrate our vacation time on visiting with family in Michigan if that becomes possible.


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## ilovetotravel1977

Definitely check points for the NS / NB border...only essential workers can pass through.


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## Pumpkin1172

Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina said:


> Is the government monitoring province to province travel? Can you be turned away at a provincial border?


Yes and No.  Most people are not going anywhere.  I know in Alberta, unless it is an emergency or for work, they are urging us NOT to travel to different areas.   

I do know that if you want to get into the NWT...you absolutely can't get there.  If you were going to school in the south, when you come back into the territory, you have to have a plan of where you will quarantine in only 3 different places.  You have to show proof of hotel bookings.  No private staying with relatives or friends.  You have to basically get authorization from the health minister to cross the boarder. 

I have family and friends in Hay River, which is one the other three areas you can isolate.  Two of them work for the health authority, so yup...all the above is true.  The remote communities just don't have the facilities to handle anything like this, so they are taking every precaution they can.  And many of Indiginous people living there are already at a higher risk, not to even mention that their healthcare system would NOT be able to handle many cases that required extensive hospital care.  Just trying to get them to Yellowknife to the hospital there is hard enough...and now with spring...that creates another headache to find a plane equipped to land on rivers that are blocked and jammed with ice flows etc etc etc  It would be a night mare.


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## hdrolfe

bcwife76 said:


> The PM hasn't mentioned the cruising industry (AFAIK) since his initial announcement in early March about our ports being closed til July 1. Obviously one can not exist without the other (ie. No cruises at all until the US CAN border is open). So this basically squashes the Alaska cruising season. I know that some cruise lines have cancelled all AK sailings for this year while some have drastically cut back their sailings but still offer some. Realistically, the Alaska cruising season won't even take place this year, I'm assuming?



Dr Tam mentioned cruises in her interview today (it's on CBC news website if you want to read it) but she says something about re-evaluating cruises in Canada by July. From the way she was talking, I don't think they will be coming here, which puts the Alaska season out for the year I would guess? She was talking about how it would bring thousands of people to a port and the danger of opening too fast.


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## BLAZEY

I think it will stay closed until the US is able to get control of the spread. Currently The US has 33% of total known cases worldwide, 13% of recovered and 28% of deaths. To many people still not taking this virus seriously. I don't see not essential travel to the US before January 2021.


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## StarWarsNerd24

I am pretty sure international border crossing  is under Federal Jurisdiction, so the provinces will have no say over when non essential international travel can be opened up again.


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## StarWarsNerd24

BLAZEY said:


> I don't see not essential travel to the US before January 2021


I would agree with you.


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## pinkle

StarWarsNerd24 said:


> I would agree with you.


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## pangyal

Just FYI, the non-essential travel restrictions only apply to land crossings, for anyone who is not aware of this (full disclosure- that would be me as of four hours ago  ). Canadians and Americans can cross back and forth, even for non essential travel, using air, sea or rail as of this moment and have been able to do so since March when the block was announced.

Sorry if I was the only person who didn’t know this!


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## StarWarsNerd24

pangyal said:


> even for non essential travel, using air, sea or rail as of this moment and have been able to do so since March when the block was announced.


Didn't know that either, but air travel cross border for all intents and purposes was halted by the airlines.


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## bankr63

StarWarsNerd24 said:


> Didn't know that either, but air travel cross border for all intents and purposes was halted by the airlines.


Reduced, maybe.  Halted, no.  Anyone who lives near an airport can tell you that the jets are still taking off and landing.  Not nearly as frequently, but they are still coming and going.  Here is an image of all of the aircraft over North America at this time (11:45 EDT Tuesday night).  Surprising how many are UPS and FedEx flights (maybe not considering the situation), but lots of commercial passenger traffic too.


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## bcwife76

pangyal said:


> Just FYI, the non-essential travel restrictions only apply to land crossings, for anyone who is not aware of this (full disclosure- that would be me as of four hours ago  ). Canadians and Americans can cross back and forth, even for non essential travel, using air, sea or rail as of this moment and have been able to do so since March when the block was announced.
> 
> Sorry if I was the only person who didn’t know this!


Uh no, I wasn't aware of this either! Huh...learn something new every day!


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## Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina

BLAZEY said:


> I think it will stay closed until the US is able to get control of the spread. Currently The US has 33% of total known cases worldwide, 13% of recovered and 28% of deaths. To many people still not taking this virus seriously. I don't see not essential travel to the US before January 2021.



I cant see the current PM halting immigration that long.   And if immigration is considered essential,  a Canadian returning home to Canada to visit family better also needs to be consided essential.


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## Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina

pangyal said:


> Just FYI, the non-essential travel restrictions only apply to land crossings, for anyone who is not aware of this (full disclosure- that would be me as of four hours ago  ). Canadians and Americans can cross back and forth, even for non essential travel, using air, sea or rail as of this moment and have been able to do so since March when the block was announced.
> 
> Sorry if I was the only person who didn’t know this!



Interesting.   If this keeps up too long, I would absolutely consider flying home.


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## ottawamom

Not closing the border to air travel when you cross it to land crossings just seems very wrong. I know the planes are still flying but maybe they have only be flying with those considered as essential travel. There's no way of knowing.

@bankr63  that is one of my favourite websites to watch from time to time. I am also amazed that there is as much air travel still. Of course most of it is in the US and the vast majority of it today is air freight. I find it very disturbing to see the # of domestic passenger flights that are still flying in the US.


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## migel

I think the cracks are beginning to show, and the push-back will escalate now that the warmer weather is here. Protecting our citizens, especially the more vulnerable was/is necessary, and I think Ontario has done a good job. But at some point, the consequences of an extended shutdown will cause more damage than the virus. And not just economic damage.  The problem is the media will continue to fuel the frenzy by highlighting worse-case scenarios, and playing down any counter arguments about easing restrictions. It's to their benefit. If the stats show progress and slowing of the spread,  MSM will counter with 'second wave devastation in November', 'more potent strain expected', etc.
I think a graduated re-opening is the way to go. But if provincial govt's think they can keep things like restaurants, stores, small businesses and Border crossing closed over the summer, the consequences will be dire, and we'll begin to see a larger segment of the population rebel. Let's hope it doesn't happen.


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## pangyal

Air Canada was flying to Orlando multiple times a day, four times per week (their reduced schedule) until very recently when they halted flights due to financial losses incurred. It’s funny to think that anyone could have gotten on one of those planes and gone to hang out in central Florida (I imagine snowbirds were still going back and forth, maybe).


migel said:


> I think the cracks are beginning to show, and the push-back will escalate now that the warmer weather is here. Protecting our citizens, especially the more vulnerable was/is necessary, and I think Ontario has done a good job. But at some point, the consequences of an extended shutdown will cause more damage than the virus. And not just economic damage.  The problem is the media will continue to fuel the frenzy by highlighting worse-case scenarios, and playing down any counter arguments about easing restrictions. It's to their benefit. If the stats show progress and slowing of the spread,  MSM will counter with 'second wave devastation in November', 'more potent strain expected', etc.
> I think a graduated re-opening is the way to go. But if provincial govt's think they can keep things like restaurants, stores, small businesses and Border crossing closed over the summer, the consequences will be dire, and we'll begin to see a larger segment of the population rebel. Let's hope it doesn't happen.


YES. I could not agree more. It’s funny, right before I came to Dis this morning, I checked Apple News and the first thing I saw for Canada was that our doubling rate had slowed but that the second wave in the fall would likely be much worse. I am completely on board with your analysis above.


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## ilovetotravel1977

Well if there is a second wave around November, I'm definitely not cancelling anything on my end right now. I will wait in order to get credits or my WDW tickets extended without penalty (hopefully).


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## hdrolfe

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> Well if there is a second wave around November, I'm definitely not cancelling anything on my end right now. I will wait in order to get credits or my WDW tickets extended without penalty (hopefully).



This is my plan at the moment. Though I am reluctant to actually book flights yet. We'll see what happens! I don't have to PIF for my cruises until September so that gives some time to see where we are at.


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## ilovetotravel1977

@hdrolfe I booked my flights as soon as they came out in January as we wanted direct down and back. So much for being proactive! LOL

The only good thing is IF we get to go, we won't have to connect anywhere, so that is a plus.


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## Jrb1979

migel said:


> I think the cracks are beginning to show, and the push-back will escalate now that the warmer weather is here. Protecting our citizens, especially the more vulnerable was/is necessary, and I think Ontario has done a good job. But at some point, the consequences of an extended shutdown will cause more damage than the virus. And not just economic damage.  The problem is the media will continue to fuel the frenzy by highlighting worse-case scenarios, and playing down any counter arguments about easing restrictions. It's to their benefit. If the stats show progress and slowing of the spread,  MSM will counter with 'second wave devastation in November', 'more potent strain expected', etc.
> I think a graduated re-opening is the way to go. But if provincial govt's think they can keep things like restaurants, stores, small businesses and Border crossing closed over the summer, the consequences will be dire, and we'll begin to see a larger segment of the population rebel. Let's hope it doesn't happen.


They aren't staying closed over the summer. They will start reopening within the next month. The only things not happening are concerts, festivals and sporting events this year. Which most likely means Wonderland is closed for the year. IMO til there is a cure or vaccine none of those places should open. Especially with the talk of a second wave in the fall. Its why I agree with what California is doing. In my mind Disney shouldn't be opening anytime soon. Its too hard to practice social distancing at theme parks.


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## hdrolfe

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> @hdrolfe I booked my flights as soon as they came out in January as we wanted direct down and back. So much for being proactive! LOL
> 
> The only good thing is IF we get to go, we won't have to connect anywhere, so that is a plus.



We can't get direct down and back sadly. I may be able to use Sunwing to get back direct, but I am waiting to book any way. Or I will go to Montreal or Syracuse. Part of why I haven't booked yet... can't decide where to fly from! And I added a second week to my cruise, if we have to fly kiddo wants it to be "worth it" and if we have to isolate after we get back, that will line up with the two week Christmas break. Though not seeing family over Christmas might not be good. We'll see I guess.


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## ilovetotravel1977

https://www.tripadvisor.ca/ShowTopi...ights_to_Cancun-Cancun_Yucatan_Peninsula.html
I follow the tripadvisor forums for Mexico. Take a read of the above post.


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## Kaadk

Haven't seen this thought mentioned yet, but what about the possibility of a one-way border opening?  Like the US opening to allow Canadians in, but Canada not opening to allow Americans in until a much later date?  I could see the US deciding to stop waiting on Canada and just opening.  Or conversely, I could also see them opening for other foreign internationals but not Canadians until Canada reciprocates...

We live in a border town, but really, aside from having to cancel our annual May camping trip to Michigan, and of course the worry about whether or not we'll be able to do our Aug Disney trip, the border closing hasn't really effected us that much.  With the exchange rates were they were, and the increased time taken with crossing (compared to say, a decade or so ago) running over for a day of shopping isn't something we'd do anymore anyways.  Vacations sure, but otherwise haven't really crossed in a while.  Even camping trips we're looking to Canadian campgrounds, despite the on average higher costs, just because it's easier than crossing.


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## Jrb1979

Kaadk said:


> Haven't seen this thought mentioned yet, but what about the possibility of a one-way border opening?  Like the US opening to allow Canadians in, but Canada not opening to allow Americans in until a much later date?  I could see the US deciding to stop waiting on Canada and just opening.  Or conversely, I could also see them opening for other foreign internationals but not Canadians until Canada reciprocates...
> 
> We live in a border town, but really, aside from having to cancel our annual May camping trip to Michigan, and of course the worry about whether or not we'll be able to do our Aug Disney trip, the border closing hasn't really effected us that much.  With the exchange rates were they were, and the increased time taken with crossing (compared to say, a decade or so ago) running over for a day of shopping isn't something we'd do anymore anyways.  Vacations sure, but otherwise haven't really crossed in a while.  Even camping trips we're looking to Canadian campgrounds, despite the on average higher costs, just because it's easier than crossing.


A little off topic but you live so close to one of the best theme parks in Cedar Point. Have to you ever gone?


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## Kaadk

Jrb1979 said:


> A little off topic but you live so close to one of the best theme parks in Cedar Point. Have to you ever gone?


Last time I went was our grade 8 grad trip, about 30 years ago.  I'm acrophobic so I don't like roller coasters, and otherwise, there doesn't seem to be much there for me.  I've had the kids at Michigan's Adventure a couple of times, and in the not too distant future I could see bring them to Cedar Point, but it'd be for them, not me.


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## Pumpkin1172

Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina said:


> I cant see the current PM halting immigration that long. And if immigration is considered essential, a Canadian returning home to Canada to visit family better also needs to be consided essential.


I can't see that either!!!!  I remember your trip reports and your hubby and son.  I'm only 7 hrs from my daughter and we often hop into the truck and head south for long weekends to spend with them.  I miss them so much, I can't even imagine how much your wanting to go visit him or vise versa.  ( ps...I hope you post more trip reports, I miss reading your trips   )


----------



## BLAZEY

bankr63 said:


> Reduced, maybe.  Halted, no.  Anyone who lives near an airport can tell you that the jets are still taking off and landing.  Not nearly as frequently, but they are still coming and going.  Here is an image of all of the aircraft over North America at this time (11:45 EDT Tuesday night).  Surprising how many are UPS and FedEx flights (maybe not considering the situation), but lots of commercial passenger traffic too.
> 
> View attachment 491539


All passenger aircraft flying in and out of YYJ (Victoria) is DOMESTIC. From my understanding there are only 3 Airports doing cross border passenger flights. Vancouver, Calgary and Toronto today out of Vancouver only 2 flights are trans border, both tiny planes to Seattle.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

@BLAZEY  Montreal is open as well.


----------



## BLAZEY

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> @BLAZEY  Montreal is open as well.


That makes sense, having another one further east. But still only 4 for the whole country.  People aren't flying on holiday, and work travel is dramatically reduced. Going from hundreds of trans border flights daily to a handful is a significant drop.


----------



## Jrb1979

They may reopen the border sooner rather than later but Canada will probably keep the 14 day quarantine mandate in place for the foreseeable future. Everything they have been saying is that this is the new normal til a cure or vaccine happens.


----------



## bcwife76

BLAZEY said:


> All passenger aircraft flying in and out of YYJ (Victoria) is DOMESTIC. From my understanding there are only 3 Airports doing cross border passenger flights. Vancouver, Calgary and Toronto today out of Vancouver only 2 flights are trans border, both tiny planes to Seattle.


Several flights out of YVR to Seattle every day and one every day to Dallas. Odd. That many people flying between Dallas and Vancouver that they need a daily flight still? Plus don't forget the flights still going to Taipei and China from YVR. Every single day.


----------



## BLAZEY

bcwife76 said:


> Several flights out of YVR to Seattle every day and one every day to Dallas. Odd. That many people flying between Dallas and Vancouver that they need a daily flight still? Plus don't forget the flights still going to Taipei and China from YVR. Every single day.


Honestly I'm more worried about the flights to/ from the USA than Taipei.


----------



## bcwife76

BLAZEY said:


> Honestly I'm more worried about the flights to/ from the USA than Taipei.


True! Taipei has done an excellent job it would seem during this pandemic.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home/book/travel-news-and-updates/2020/china-travel.html#/na-3
Found this on the Air Canada website. Shows all cancelled, suspended, etc flights out of Canada to everywhere it flies.


----------



## migel

Opening the borders but keeping a mandatory 14 day quarantine is akin to allowing restaurants to open, but only serve one table at a time. It would be lip service on the part of the provinces. I understand the concern, and it is a difficult situation to navigate, but keeping quarantine restrictions in place means 95% of people that might consider crossing the border, be it for a trip, shopping, or otherwise, would technically not be able to. Unless they disregard the quarantine. I understand that there's a segment of society that insists everyone should stay put until there's a vaccine, but that's not going to happen, for many reasons. Perhaps the recent push to allow the Govt to use personal cell phone GPS data for tracking purposes has something to do with potential border re-opening, among other things.


----------



## pigletto

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/cana...-provincial-data-shows/ar-BB13q0rI?li=AAggNb9Very eye opening information in that article. The vast majority of our travel related cases came from the USA. Look at those stats and tell me if we should be opening our borders for travel and shopping and leisure. Personally I think SOME of the states are opening too soon with very little thought to what that’s going to mean for a second wave and further spread. I’d rather see how that plays out before opening our borders with the US. I live 25 minutes from New York State bordering Erie county where the numbers of positive cases are very high. It would be very bad for Niagara to open up any time soon in my opinion.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

I wonder if our borders will open to only countries with the virus controlled?


----------



## Pumpkin1172

pigletto said:


> Very eye opening information in that article. The vast majority of our travel related cases came from the USA. Look at those stats and tell me if we should be opening our borders for travel and shopping and leisure. Personally I think SOME of the states are opening too soon with very little thought to what that’s going to mean for a second wave and further spread. I’d rather see how that plays out before opening our borders with the US. I live 25 minutes from New York State bordering Erie county where the numbers are positive cases are very high. It would be very bad for Niagara to open up any time soon in my opinion.


My Mom, aunt& Uncle caught it from another family member who was from Wisconsin when they were in BC for their brother's memorial service.   We found out about 6 days after Mom got home that this particular person had tested positive upon her return to the US.  We found out about the positive test just before everything  broke loose and we started to isolate.  But it was too late for my family members, when we found out about the positive test result, all three were already starting to not feel well.  They are all now fully recovered!!!!


----------



## Kaadk

pigletto said:


> https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/cana...-provincial-data-shows/ar-BB13q0rI?li=AAggNb9Very eye opening information in that article. The vast majority of our travel related cases came from the USA. Look at those stats and tell me if we should be opening our borders for travel and shopping and leisure. Personally I think SOME of the states are opening too soon with very little thought to what that’s going to mean for a second wave and further spread. I’d rather see how that plays out before opening our borders with the US. I live 25 minutes from New York State bordering Erie county where the numbers are positive cases are very high. It would be very bad for Niagara to open up any time soon in my opinion.


I scanned through the same article this morning.  I tend to take them somewhat with a grain of salt, as they're easy to misconstrue the numbers.  Obviously the largest number of cases is going to come from travel to the US, because that's where the largest amount of Canadian travel occurs.  I note that the article didn't mention the number of people who've travelled to each area as a baseline to come up with a percentage.  For example, when you look at the numbers for Ontario, US travel is 3.2x the number of cases compared to ones to the UK.  Makes it sound like the US is 3.2 times as bad as the UK.  But in reality, let's hypothetically say the US sees 100 times the number of visitors than the UK does (made up number, not based on any stat, just being used for mathematical demonstration purposes).  Based on that the UK would be 31 times as bad to visit at the US.  

Not that there's anything wrong with the data.  We all know the US isn't exactly great at keeping this contained, and I'm not advocating to open the border.  Just trying to put in perspective the way facts can get skewed, based on the angle you look at them.  For example, from this site:

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coron...ompare-canada-and-other-key-nations-1.4881500
Here's how the chart looks when you look at totals:



Looks like the US is absolutely horrendous compared to everyone else, but when you change the option at the top to compare based on a the average over 100K:



Suddenly things take a different picture.


----------



## pigletto

Kaadk said:


> I scanned through the same article this morning.  I tend to take them somewhat with a grain of salt, as they're easy to misconstrue the numbers.  Obviously the largest number of cases is going to come from travel to the US, because that's where the largest amount of Canadian travel occurs.  I note that the article didn't mention the number of people who've travelled to each area as a baseline to come up with a percentage.  For example, when you look at the numbers for Ontario, US travel is 3.2x the number of cases compared to ones to the UK.  Makes it sound like the US is 3.2 times as bad as the UK.  But in reality, let's hypothetically say the US sees 100 times the number of visitors than the UK does (made up number, not based on any stat, just being used for mathematical demonstration purposes).  Based on that the UK would be 31 times as bad to visit at the US.
> 
> Not that there's anything wrong with the data.  We all know the US isn't exactly great at keeping this contained, and I'm not advocating to open the border.  Just trying to put in perspective the way facts can get skewed, based on the angle you look at them.  For example, from this site:
> 
> https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coron...ompare-canada-and-other-key-nations-1.4881500
> Here's how the chart looks when you look at totals:
> 
> View attachment 491819
> 
> Looks like the US is absolutely horrendous compared to everyone else, but when you change the option at the top to compare based on a the average over 100K:
> 
> View attachment 491821
> 
> Suddenly things take a different picture.


I do agree with you and I completely understand that the data needs to be read correctly. The fact remains that the majority of our travel related cases came from the US before those borders were closed and Canadians will continue to travel to the States more , and be exposed while the disease is still a risk in the US. I’d like to how their opening strategy performs before we even think about opening up for shopping , travel and leisure.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

pigletto said:


> I’d like to how their opening strategy performs before we even think about opening up for shopping , travel and leisure.



This! 

I just want to see how this all plays out over the summer. I'm sure their July 4th holiday will be one big celebration, liberating everyone from Covid-19.  While Canada Day will likely be squashed LOL


----------



## wdwmom3

You know I’m sorry for those people with family on the other side of the border that they can’t visit.  But right now we can’t visit family that lives down the street from us.  So why should you be able to come into Canada to visit family?  We are all dealing with this sad reality. 

Honestly I hope they keep the Canadian border closed to all but essential travel.  Especially after the data coming out that most of our travel related cases comes from the US.  Many US states are no where near to having things under control and these protests and push to open things quickly is not good. 

They need to keep the border shut until there is proof things are good.


----------



## wdwmom3

Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina said:


> I cant see the current PM halting immigration that long.   And if immigration is considered essential,  a Canadian returning home to Canada to visit family better also needs to be consided essential.



We are not supposed to visit family living in the same city? Why would they consider someone from outside the country essential?


----------



## Jrb1979

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> This!
> 
> I just want to see how this all plays out over the summer. I'm sure their July 4th holiday will be one big celebration, liberating everyone from Covid-19.  While Canada Day will likely be squashed LOL


They have already said Canada day Fireworks are going to virtual only. Its mind blowing how quick they want to open the parks in the U.S. but here they have cancelled most large gatherings for the year.


----------



## Kaadk

pigletto said:


> I do agree with you and I completely understand that the data needs to be read correctly. The fact remains that the majority of our travel related cases came from the US before those borders were closed and Canadians will continue to travel to the States more , and be exposed while the disease is still a risk in the US. I’d like to how their opening strategy performs before we even think about opening up for shopping , travel and leisure.


Agreed!


----------



## Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina

wdwmom3 said:


> We are not supposed to visit family living in the same city? Why would they consider someone from outside the country essential?



My point was that when the government deems it safe to welcome non citizens from other countries for immigration purposes, they darn well better welcome their own citizens to return home (for whatever purpose).


----------



## Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina

wdwmom3 said:


> You know I’m sorry for those people with family on the other side of the border that they can’t visit.  But right now we can’t visit family that lives down the street from us.  So why should you be able to come into Canada to visit family?  We are all dealing with this sad reality.



The difference is, you CAN.

You may be going against a government directive in doing so (and subjecting yourself to a fine if caught)  but Homeland Security or the Canada Border Services Agency will not be stopping you from accessing those family members.  They will most certainly be stopping US.


----------



## isabellea

Canadians are still allowed to enter Canada at the border (it's unconstitutional to block your citizens from entering the country) but you need to have serious plans for how you will quarantine yourself for 14 days. But unless you have dual citizenships, Canadians coming back to Canada won't be allowed to go back to the USA and will have to stay in Canada until the border re-opens on the American side. Same is true the other way around. Americans living in Canada are allowed to cross the border to go back to the USA but won't be allowed to come back to Canada until the border is re-opened.


----------



## pigletto

Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina said:


> The difference is, you CAN.
> 
> You may be going against a government directive in doing so (and subjecting yourself to a fine if caught)  but Homeland Security or the Canada Border Services Agency will not be stopping you from accessing those family members.  They will most certainly be stopping US.


Gina I do understand and sympathize. My sister is still a citizen but married an American last October and they work and reside in Tampa . It’s very hard on us as well as she’s pregnant with her first baby and it’s looking like not only will none of us be able to see her while she’s pregnant , we won’t be able to see our new nephew/grandson right away .  She’s feeling lonely and isolated and scared . I can only imagine that will increase after she has a baby and won’t have any idea when her mother and father or sisters and brothers can come . She could come back as a citizen but has no health care here anymore. Her husband is  surgeon in a major Florida hospital , and there are several nurses and doctors in my immediate family including my mom and brother. We would love to go see her but even when we can , none of us could quarantine for the weeks required for such a visit .


----------



## pigletto

Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina said:


> My point was that when the government deems it safe to welcome non citizens from other countries for immigration purposes, they darn well better welcome their own citizens to return home (for whatever purpose).


You’re able to come now . You would need to quarantine and stay once here .


----------



## Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina

pigletto said:


> You’re able to come now . You would need to quarantine and stay once here .



As I'm sure you understand, that's obviously not an option for most Canucks who live outside the country.  We have homes here.  Jobs.  Pets.  Our healthcare is in the USA.  

So while my point is being twisted a bit (as I expected it would be), the end effect still remains true.   The poster I responded to can visit her family down street and then return to her own home when she's done.  Until the border reopens, we do not have that luxury.  So when someone tells me "it's no different than what we are currently dealing with", it needs to be pointed out that its VERY different.


----------



## pigletto

Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina said:


> As I'm sure you understand, that's obviously not an option for most Canucks who live outside the country.  We have homes here.  Jobs.  Pets.  Our healthcare is in the USA.
> 
> So while my point is being twisted a bit (as I expected it would be), the end effect still remains true.   The poster I responded to can visit her family down street and then return to her own home when she's done.  Until the border reopens, we do not have that luxury.  So when someone tells me "it's no different than what we are currently dealing with", it needs to be pointed out that its VERY different.


Yep I get it. And it sucks.


----------



## wdwmom3

Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina said:


> As I'm sure you understand, that's obviously not an option for most Canucks who live outside the country.  We have homes here.  Jobs.  Pets.  Our healthcare is in the USA.
> 
> So while my point is being twisted a bit (as I expected it would be), the end effect still remains true.   The poster I responded to can visit her family down street and then return to her own home when she's done.  Until the border reopens, we do not have that luxury.  So when someone tells me "it's no different than what we are currently dealing with", it needs to be pointed out that its VERY different.



So because I can “get away” with something I’m not supposed to do.  It’s different?   No it’s not.  It’s not supposed to be done period. 

We are all in the same situation.  And as long as the US doesn’t have things under control then no they shouldn’t allow non essential to enter.  And while you may WANT to visit family.  No it’s not essential.  

We are all having to face upsetting issues.  Like my friend who is a new grandma and can’t visit her first grandchild living in the same city. But we have to, in order to keep people safe.


----------



## wdwmom3

Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina said:


> As I'm sure you understand, that's obviously not an option for most Canucks who live outside the country.  We have homes here.  Jobs.  Pets.  Our healthcare is in the USA.
> 
> So while my point is being twisted a bit (as I expected it would be), the end effect still remains true.   The poster I responded to can visit her family down street and then return to her own home when she's done.  Until the border reopens, we do not have that luxury.  So when someone tells me "it's no different than what we are currently dealing with", it needs to be pointed out that its VERY different.



And I’m sorry to hit you with the hard truth.  But keeping cases low in our country is more important then you coming here to visit family.


----------



## Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina

wdwmom3 said:


> And I’m sorry to hit you with the hard truth.  But keeping cases low in our country is more important then you coming here to visit family.



I am very much able to handle hard truth.  Its lack of compassion that saddens me.

For your sake, I pray that you are always "down the street" from your loved ones.


----------



## StarSeven7

Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina said:


> I am very much able to handle hard truth.  Its lack of compassion that saddens me.
> 
> For your sake, I pray that you are always "down the street" from your loved ones.


I agree there’s definitely a difference and those who think there’s not are obviously not in the same situation! We cancelled our trip to Chicago over March Break when everything started shutting down because we weren’t sure what was going to happen with the border and it made me nervous. I was ok with that because it was my choice but when they closed the border a week or so later, I cried because my choice was taken away and I felt helpless.

People might not be allowed to see their family living in the same city right now but the reality is that many people are doing it anyways and trying to maintain social distancing while doing it. And even for those following the letter of the law, they will be reunited with their families long before people with families on the other side of the border.


----------



## Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina

wdwmom3 said:


> So because I can “get away” with something I’m not supposed to do.  It’s different?



Um, yes.  It's VERY different.  Because we folks living on the other side of the border cannot "get away" with anything. 

In the case of an emergency, YOU can get to your loved ones and get back to your home with nothing more than a guilty conscience for breaking the rules.  Right now, WE are not so fortunate.  If we need to return home to Canada for an emergency, we then face a crisis of how to get back to our home in the States.  I'm sorry you have the inability to see the difference between the effects of a closed border on Canadians living in Canada and the effects of a closed border on Canadians living abroad.   You don't care, I get that....but because you have no empathy for people in our situation doesn't mean we aren't living a very different set of circumstances.  We may all be in the same storm but we are most definitely not all in the same boat.

For the record, I do not maintain that my desire to visit family is essential (except to my peace of mind).   I responded to the poster who commented that the borders would not reopen to non-essential travel until at least January 2021.  I said that there was no way the current Prime Minister, given his past history and actions, would halt immigration from March 2020 to January 2021 (if Canadians living abroad aren't of any concern to him, immigrants generally are).  My point was that if new immigrants are being welcomed into Canada from other countries, then it would make zero sense to keep the borders closed between the US and Canada.


----------



## Madame

Jeez, is this an American anti-immigration thread or a CANADIAN border thread?  Sounding mighty un-Canadian to me (3rd gen immigrant on my Mother’s side).


----------



## ottawamom

I agree this thread has taken a turn for the worse. Time to reign it back in and remember the no politics guidelines. Our threads are usually more friendly and positive.


----------



## StarSeven7

Madame said:


> Jeez, is this an American anti-immigration thread or a CANADIAN border thread?  Sounding mighty un-Canadian to me (3rd gen immigrant on my Mother’s side).


Sorry but what does American views on immigration have to do with this thread?


----------



## Madame

StarSeven7 said:


> Sorry but what does American views on immigration have to do with this thread?


Seriously?  This thread has turned ridiculously political.  As a teacher of many immigrant ESL kids & a 3rd gen immigrant I find the persistence on « if immigrants are considered essential I should be able to come home for a visit from the country with the highest infection rate and zero plan » absolutely repulsive and very much contrary to the spirit of our country.  I am very blunt & do not dance around this nonsense.  You do you though.  YMMV.


----------



## StarSeven7

Madame said:


> Seriously?  This thread has turned ridiculously political.  As a teacher of many immigrant ESL kids & a 3rd gen immigrant I find the persistence on « if immigrants are considered essential I should be able to come home for a visit from the country with the highest infection rate and zero plan » absolutely repulsive and very much contrary to the spirit of our country.  I am very blunt & do not dance around this nonsense.  You do you though.  YMMV.


The PP who mentioned immigration is a Canadian talking about Canadian immigration. So again, not sure what Americans have to do with it?


----------



## Madame

StarSeven7 said:


> The PP who mentioned immigration is a Canadian talking about Canadian immigration. So again, not sure what Americans have to do with it?


I teach Canadian history & civics.  We have some of the most stringent immigration laws.  This anti-immigration sentiment is an application of American dissatisfaction with their own immigration laws falsely applied to our country, in this instance by an ex-pat living in America.  Nice sidestep of my entire point    I can do this all day long in two languages.


----------



## StarSeven7

Madame said:


> I teach Canadian history & civics.  We have some of the most stringent immigration laws.  This anti-immigration sentiment is an application of American dissatisfaction with their own immigration laws falsely applied to our country, in this instance by an ex-pat living in America.  Nice sidestep of my entire point    I can do this all day long in two languages.


Oh ok, so she’s been brainwashed by living in the US for a few years, I get it now.

And for the record, I am all for immigration as I am literally an immigrant.


----------



## Madame

StarSeven7 said:


> Oh ok, so she’s been brainwashed by living in the US for a few years, I get it now.
> 
> And for the record, I am all for immigration as I am literally an immigrant.


NO ONE was talking about immigration in this thread in any way shape or form until she brought it up.  It was cross-border shopping, missing family members a lot etc etc.  

This is literally a falsehood that many Canadians accept as reality with no basis in our OWN situation.  As a country, we simply cannot sustain our population without immigration.  Mentioning immigration here is a promulgation (no clue if this is the correct Eng word) of the scapegoating of immigrants which has been festering south of the border.

And FYI, American immigrants to Canada have no clue the struggles of basic acceptance immigrants from non-Caucasian, non-Anglo areas have.


----------



## StarSeven7

Madame said:


> *NO ONE was talking about immigration in this thread in any way shape or form until she brought it up.  It was cross-border shopping, missing family members a lot etc etc. *
> 
> This is literally a falsehood that many Canadians accept as reality with no basis in our OWN situation.  As a country, we simply cannot sustain our population without immigration.  Mentioning immigration here is a promulgation (no clue if this is the correct Eng word) of the scapegoating of immigrants which has been festering south of the border.
> 
> And FYI, American immigrants to Canada have no clue the struggles of basic acceptance immigrants from non-Caucasian, non-Anglo areas have.



I agree and obviously politics has no place on these boards.  It's just that as an American, its pretty frustrating for Canadians to label any views that they think as distasteful as "American." I've lived in Canada for 15 years and I've met many many Canadians who have never lived outside of the country who feel this way.  I don't agree with them and I'm American.  

And I agree, on the surface I look and sound "Canadian" so many don't know I'm American.  But I would say a lot of Canadians in general have a pretty poor view of Americans, even if they like them as individuals.  I've heard so many comments over the years about how much people dislike Americans or the US.  My friends will sometimes forget they're talking to me and say something disparaging about Americans.  My husband was even told not to date me by a friend who had never met me simply because I was American.  So yeah, living here hasn't always been amazing for me either.

So this is all way off topic and will probably all get deleted but I just wanted you to see a bit from my point of view on the matter.


----------



## Madame

StarSeven7 said:


> I agree and obviously politics has no place on these boards.  It's just that as an American, its pretty frustrating for Canadians to label any views that they think as distasteful as "American." I've lived in Canada for 15 years and I've met many many Canadians who have never lived outside of the country who feel this way.  I don't agree with them and I'm American.
> 
> And I agree, on the surface I look and sound "Canadian" so many don't know I'm American.  But I would say a lot of Canadians in general have a pretty poor view of Americans, even if they like them as individuals.  I've heard so many comments over the years about how much people dislike Americans or the US.  My friends will sometimes forget they're talking to me and say something disparaging about Americans.  My husband was even told not to date me by a friend who had never met me simply because I was American.  So yeah, living here hasn't always been amazing for me either.
> 
> So this is all way off topic and will probably all get deleted but I just wanted you to see a bit from my point of view on the matter.


I totally see your point of view.  But you see, I highly doubt the PP would think Canadians living in India (who cannot hold dual citizenship btw, they are only Canadians), for example, should be able to come home for a visit.  And honestly, the US has to either own it or fix it.


----------



## bababear_50

Hi fellow Disers
Perhaps you could take the not on topic discussion to PM (Private Messaging)....now back to 
our friendly discussion.

Hugs
Mel


----------



## migel

Kaadk said:


> I scanned through the same article this morning.  I tend to take them somewhat with a grain of salt, as they're easy to misconstrue the numbers.  Obviously the largest number of cases is going to come from travel to the US, because that's where the largest amount of Canadian travel occurs.  I note that the article didn't mention the number of people who've travelled to each area as a baseline to come up with a percentage.  For example, when you look at the numbers for Ontario, US travel is 3.2x the number of cases compared to ones to the UK.  Makes it sound like the US is 3.2 times as bad as the UK.  But in reality, let's hypothetically say the US sees 100 times the number of visitors than the UK does (made up number, not based on any stat, just being used for mathematical demonstration purposes).  Based on that the UK would be 31 times as bad to visit at the US.
> 
> Not that there's anything wrong with the data.  We all know the US isn't exactly great at keeping this contained, and I'm not advocating to open the border.  Just trying to put in perspective the way facts can get skewed, based on the angle you look at them.  For example, from this site:
> 
> https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coron...ompare-canada-and-other-key-nations-1.4881500
> Here's how the chart looks when you look at totals:
> 
> View attachment 491819
> 
> Looks like the US is absolutely horrendous compared to everyone else, but when you change the option at the top to compare based on a the average over 100K:
> 
> View attachment 491821
> 
> Suddenly things take a different picture.
> [/QUOTE





Kaadk said:


> I scanned through the same article this morning.  I tend to take them somewhat with a grain of salt, as they're easy to misconstrue the numbers.  Obviously the largest number of cases is going to come from travel to the US, because that's where the largest amount of Canadian travel occurs.  I note that the article didn't mention the number of people who've travelled to each area as a baseline to come up with a percentage.  For example, when you look at the numbers for Ontario, US travel is 3.2x the number of cases compared to ones to the UK.  Makes it sound like the US is 3.2 times as bad as the UK.  But in reality, let's hypothetically say the US sees 100 times the number of visitors than the UK does (made up number, not based on any stat, just being used for mathematical demonstration purposes).  Based on that the UK would be 31 times as bad to visit at the US.
> 
> Not that there's anything wrong with the data.  We all know the US isn't exactly great at keeping this contained, and I'm not advocating to open the border.  Just trying to put in perspective the way facts can get skewed, based on the angle you look at them.  For example, from this site:
> 
> https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coron...ompare-canada-and-other-key-nations-1.4881500
> Here's how the chart looks when you look at totals:
> 
> View attachment 491819
> 
> Looks like the US is absolutely horrendous compared to everyone else, but when you change the option at the top to compare based on a the average over 100K:
> 
> View attachment 491821
> 
> Suddenly things take a different picture.


Understandably, there's a strong argument to maintain control of the border, however I agree, these stats need to be taken with a huge grain of salt. There is a strong media push currently, in attempts to divert blame for the outbreak, from the country of origin. And, certain governments are using this to their advantage, as a way to justify their neglect in not suspending incoming flights from those hot spots.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Back to potential vacation discussions


----------



## Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina

Madame said:


> Seriously?  This thread has turned ridiculously political.  As a teacher of many immigrant ESL kids & a 3rd gen immigrant I find the persistence on « if immigrants are considered essential I should be able to come home for a visit from the country with the highest infection rate and zero plan » absolutely repulsive and very much contrary to the spirit of our country.  I am very blunt & do not dance around this nonsense.  You do you though.  YMMV.



I am very blunt as well.

My comments were made as a Canadian, not an American.   I was born in Canada and remain a Canadian, regardless of where my brick-and-mortar house might be at this particular moment.

My comments were also not a reflection of my opinion on politics or immigration.   They were an explanation as to why i believe that the borders will not be closed until January 2021, as another poster suggested.  "When you think the borders will open" was the whole subject of this thread.  Anyone can throw out an arbitrary date, I chose to explain why I think they were wrong.

I am a citizen of one country currently living as a guest in another country.  My views on immigration would likely surprise you.   But my personal opinions are irrelevant and were not shared here, nor will they be.

I will be backing out of this discussion from here,  however,  as only alarmist predictions of an extended and indefinite closure seem to be welcome.   And the fact that I'm sharing my unique perspective as a Canadian living abroad seems to be more than some folks can bear.

I wish you all well, and hope I can visit my home country sooner rather than later.


----------



## Jrb1979

Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina said:


> I am very blunt as well.
> 
> My comments were made as a Canadian, not an American.   I was born in Canada and remain a Canadian, regardless of where my brick-and-mortar house might be at this particular moment.
> 
> My comments were also not a reflection of my opinion on politics or immigration.   They were an explanation as to why i believe that the borders will not be closed until January 2021, as another poster suggested.  "When you think the borders will open" was the whole subject of this thread.  Anyone can throw out an arbitrary date, I chose to explain why I think they were wrong.
> 
> I am a citizen of one country currently living as a guest in another country.  My views on immigration would likely surprise you.   But my personal opinions are irrelevant were not shared here, nor will they be.
> 
> I will be backing out of this discussion from here,  however,  as only alarmist predictions of an extended and indefinite closure seem to be welcome.   And the fact that I'm sharing my unique perspective as a Canadian living abroad seems to be more than some folks can bear.
> 
> I wish you all well, and hope I can visit my home country sooner rather than later.


The borders will be open sooner rather than later but I believe the 14 day quarantine will be in place for awhile. Its all cause the U.S. is moving too quickly to get back to normal.


----------



## pigletto

Unfortunately unless we choose to shame and silence people with views that oppose our own, a discussion that is literally titled “When do you think the border will reopen ?” is going to be opinionated and a touchy subject during a global pandemic.

If not breaking board rules I truly think it does a disservice to silence people from productive and thoughtful discussion. Peoples lives are at stake ..it’s time to talk it out. If we can do so without resorting to attacks or politics it needs to be done . I don’t want to lose friends here and I hope we are all able to disagree and still come away with kindness and respect .. but  I don’t feel we  need to tell people how and what to post. It’s simple to just not read or respond.


----------



## FigmentSpark

The difference between welcoming a new Canadian and welcoming Canadians home for a visit is the 14 day quarantine.  I have family that has recently moved back to Canada from the US.  Canada is now their home, but they are required to quarantine for 14 days before doing anything, including looking for a more permanent residence than their hotel.  It will be the same for new immigrants.

For visiting Canadians, if you want to quarantine, then that's the 'price' of the visit.  I totally understand the feeling of being isolated from family in another country, but the facts are that you might be carrying invisible hitchhikers with you.  You don't want to give those to your family any more than a person living here wants to give them to their family down the street.  In that sense, it is the same.  In the sense of 'emergency', certainly there are differences.  But then, my family is in a different province.  I can't visit them without the requisite quarantine, either and while I can come home again, I would have to quarantine at home again, too, making it as difficult as possible for me to see my octogenarian parents who are now relying on their neighbours for that extra help I would have given them in other times.


----------



## wdwmom3

Jrb1979 said:


> The borders will be open sooner rather than later but I believe the 14 day quarantine will be in place for awhile. Its all cause the U.S. is moving too quickly to get back to normal.




I really don’t think it will.  Some states are moving too quickly and it could have really bad implications.  Our government will not be quick to open the border if it means risking our recovery at all.  The federal government will be under a lot of pressure form many provincial leaders who have come right out and said that they don’t want any travel from the US allowed.  

If they open the border I think there will be a lot of outrage here in Canada.


----------



## tgropp

Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina said:


> I am very much able to handle hard truth.  Its lack of compassion that saddens me.
> 
> For your sake, I pray that you are always "down the street" from your loved ones.



As a long time lover of Florida Trips and your past reports , I am also saddened by the lack of compassion. I know the circumstances that have happened to your family the past few years and can understand your desire to come back home to your family that needs you. Stay strong....it won’t be long. I’m thinking sooner rather than later.


----------



## Jrb1979

tgropp said:


> As a long time lover of Florida Trips and your past reports , I am also saddened by the lack of compassion. I know the circumstances that have happened to your family the past few years and can understand your desire to come back home to your family that needs you. Stay strong....it won’t be long. I’m thinking sooner rather than later.


I doubt its happening soon and if does expect the 14 day quarantine to still be in place. All cause the U.S. isn't taking it as seriously as Canada is. The fact they are already talking about opening Disney by next month is mindboggling.


----------



## ottawamom

Today would have been my last full day of my alternate universe trip to Disney. I love Disney and can't wait to get back there. Disney will open when it opens but I think its going to be quite a while before most of us will be joining in the fun. I do hope there is a suitable vaccine sooner than later as I feel its going to be the only way we aren't going through wave after wave of this for the next two years.


----------



## Duck1

ottawamom said:


> Until people are able to go about their own daily business freely in this country I don't think we have any right to open the border. Lets make sure our residents can move and not spread anything before we allow anyone else in or out to set things back.
> 
> The border can stay closed to non essential traffic until there is a vaccine as far as I'm concerned.


And if we never have a vaccine??


----------



## bababear_50

ottawamom said:


> Today would have been my last full day of my alternate universe trip to Disney. I love Disney and can't wait to get back there. Disney will open when it opens but I think its going to be quite a while before most of us will be joining in the fun. I do hope there is a suitable vaccine sooner than later as I feel its going to be the only way we aren't going through wave after wave of this for the next two years.



Absolutely agree with you!
Hugs
Mel


----------



## bababear_50

Duck1 said:


> And if we never have a vaccine??



Respectfully what do you think will happen?

Mel


----------



## ottawamom

Duck1 said:


> And if we never have a vaccine??


Then we have to wait for herd immunity to kick in. That will take 60-70% having been infected and now carrying antibodies.


----------



## wdwmom3

Jrb1979 said:


> I doubt its happening soon and if does expect the 14 day quarantine to still be in place. All cause the U.S. isn't taking it as seriously as Canada is. The fact they are already talking about opening Disney by next month is mindboggling.



Agreed.  And this is why the border won’t open anytime soon. Not because of what’s happening in Canada.  Because of what’s happening in the US right now.   And because of how bad it could get.  The fact that states are opening up while they still have increasing cases is crazy.


----------



## damo

I don't think it just has to be a vaccine that will open things up.  If we find treatment that turns the virus into something more like the common cold, then that would change this lock-up drastically as well.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

Family member of mine works for the government /border services, and without getting into too many details - Canada/USA borders will reopen sooner rather than later to non-essential travel.  It may happen in phase 1, 2 or 3 but it won’t be as late as 2021... that’s unrealistic.  Unless something drastic happens of course. The situation continues to be very fluid.  The economy can only survive for so long with everything shut down. 
I want it to be totally safe and hope a vaccine will be available... but that can be years.
It’s truly surreal what has transpired in the last 60 days or so 
Still - lets all be positive and optimistic. Things will get back to normal, even if that’s the new normal...


----------



## pinkle

Kaadk said:


> Haven't seen this thought mentioned yet, but what about the possibility of a one-way border opening?  Like the US opening to allow Canadians in, but Canada not opening to allow Americans in until a much later date?  I could see the US deciding to stop waiting on Canada and just opening.  Or conversely, I could also see them opening for other foreign internationals but not Canadians until Canada reciprocates...
> 
> We live in a border town, but really, aside from having to cancel our annual May camping trip to Michigan, and of course the worry about whether or not we'll be able to do our Aug Disney trip, the border closing hasn't really effected us that much.  With the exchange rates were they were, and the increased time taken with crossing (compared to say, a decade or so ago) running over for a day of shopping isn't something we'd do anymore anyways.  Vacations sure, but otherwise haven't really crossed in a while.  Even camping trips we're looking to Canadian campgrounds, despite the on average higher costs, just because it's easier than crossing.


If we did cross we would definitely be made to quarantine for 14 days at this point


----------



## mshanson3121

Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina said:


> Is the government monitoring province to province travel?  Can you be turned away at a provincial border?



This may have already been answered. I don't know if the federal government is monitoring travel, but yes, you can be turned away. In New Brunswick, all non-essential travel is being turned away at the border (including, Quebec, PEI, Nova Scotia and Maine)


----------



## mshanson3121

Kaadk said:


> Haven't seen this thought mentioned yet, but what about the possibility of a one-way border opening?  Like the US opening to allow Canadians in, but Canada not opening to allow Americans in until a much later date?  I could see the US deciding to stop waiting on Canada and just opening.  Or conversely, I could also see them opening for other foreign internationals but not Canadians until Canada reciprocates...



This is what I see happening. I see the US opening the border, allowing us to travel there - before we allow them to travel here. On the flip side of that, if that happens, I guarentee any Canadian that travels across will have a mandatory 14 day quarantine when they return, which is basically going to ensure no one travels over there anyways. Not many employers are going to give you 14 days off for quarantine, and not many people can afford to take 14 days off work, unpaid.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

And, now that we know this will be required, many employers may not let you even work from home.  It was different during March break when everyone left not knowing this was going to be required.

Suddenly our 1 week vacations become 3 weeks.

Edit to add:  Once the border does open, I guess I better have this conversation with my bosses since I had two big trips already planned and paid for before this all went down!


----------



## Kaadk

mshanson3121 said:


> This is what I see happening. I see the US opening the border, allowing us to travel there - before we allow them to travel here. On the flip side of that, if that happens, I guarentee any Canadian that travels across will have a mandatory 14 day quarantine when they return, which is basically going to ensure no one travels over there anyways. Not many employers are going to give you 14 days off for quarantine, and not many people can afford to take 14 days off work, unpaid.


Yes, I would expect the mandatory 14 day quarantine to remain as well.  But I don't know if it's going to be as big of an impact as it was at the beginning of all of this.  First off, that would mean retirees would be able to cross (though, those with an pre-existing conditions shouldn't be crossing) without much impact.  They're not affected with needing to miss work, as they don't rely on work for their income.  Secondly, anybody who can work from home, also wouldn't be affected much.  There are those of us, like myself, who had this freedom even before the stay at home orders came in, and there are also those who've had that ability opened up to them.  For instance, my Sis-in-law works in school administration.  Before this all, her working from home would have been unheard of, but now, she's doing the majority of her job from her house.  The infrastructure's been put in place, the working arrangements have been put in place, and the means to continue working from quarantine have increased for many people.  

It's only those who don't have the options to work from home, like some of my family that works in various automotive factories/supplier factories, who would have to take the 14 days off work, but that number of people isn't as large as it was at the start of all this.  Still pretty significant, but still, not as large.


----------



## Frozen2014

Kaadk said:


> Yes, I would expect the mandatory 14 day quarantine to remain as well.  But I don't know if it's going to be as big of an impact as it was at the beginning of all of this.  First off, that would mean retirees would be able to cross (though, those with an pre-existing conditions shouldn't be crossing) without much impact.  They're not affected with needing to miss work, as they don't rely on work for their income.  Secondly, anybody who can work from home, also wouldn't be affected much.  There are those of us, like myself, who had this freedom even before the stay at home orders came in, and there are also those who've had that ability opened up to them.  For instance, my Sis-in-law works in school administration.  Before this all, her working from home would have been unheard of, but now, she's doing the majority of her job from her house.  The infrastructure's been put in place, the working arrangements have been put in place, and the means to continue working from quarantine have increased for many people.
> 
> It's only those who don't have the options to work from home, like some of my family that works in various automotive factories/supplier factories, who would have to take the 14 days off work, but that number of people isn't as large as it was at the start of all this.  Still pretty significant, but still, not as large.


Or any families travelling for vacation.  DH and I can work from home, but kids can't miss the extra weeks from school.  We have first week of Christmas booked (....if borders open up, etc).  That means second week they are still out, but then they would have to miss 1 week upon return in January.  Then March break means 2 weeks off after March break.  Not realistic.


----------



## Kaadk

Frozen2014 said:


> Or any families travelling for vacation.  DH and I can work from home, but kids can't miss the extra weeks from school.  We have first week of Christmas booked (....if borders open up, etc).  That means second week they are still out, but then they would have to miss 1 week upon return in January.  Then March break means 2 weeks off after March break.  Not realistic.


All depends on what the schools do.  I could see this home-schooling approach become part of the new normal, where the kids will be able to quarantine, but still provide their work via their assignments. Our board here uses Edsby, and it seems to be working well for that.  They can see assignments per class, upload their work per class, get feedback on marks per class, they have open communication through the messaging system with their teachers for any questions, clarifications, etc...  The only thing they'd be missing is school interactions, and any of the lectures. 

And those with tech restrictions, like lack of access to the internet, probably wouldn't have the subsided help they're getting now, so yes, those parents probably wouldn't want to travel and then have their kids out of school, but I believe some might.  I'll admit it's not ideal, but it's a possibility I can see coming.  We'll have to wait for the schools to re-open to know how they're planning on dealing with it though.


----------



## Frozen2014

Kaadk said:


> All depends on what the schools do.  I could see this home-schooling approach become part of the new normal, where the kids will be able to quarantine, but still provide their work via their assignments. Our board here uses Edsby, and it seems to be working well for that.  They can see assignments per class, upload their work per class, get feedback on marks per class, they have open communication through the messaging system with their teachers for any questions, clarifications, etc...  The only thing they'd be missing is school interactions, and any of the lectures.
> 
> And those with tech restrictions, like lack of access to the internet, probably wouldn't have the subsided help they're getting now, so yes, those parents probably wouldn't want to travel and then have their kids out of school, but I believe some might.  I'll admit it's not ideal, but it's a possibility I can see coming.  We'll have to wait for the schools to re-open to know how they're planning on dealing with it though.


Yeah, good point.  It's all up in the air of what changes school make going forward.  And as you say, working online may be more of the norm.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Also, if your child starts to show symptoms of being sick for ANYTHING, they will be home for 14 days until it passes. They will be able to continue schooling through online for that as well.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Frozen2014 said:


> Yeah, good point.  It's all up in the air of what changes school make going forward.  And as you say, working online may be more of the norm.



Or, what if in order to keep social distancing in classrooms, they do shifts where half the class does one week in class, one week learn from home online? Then on the weekends, the classrooms can be thoroughly cleaned for the next group of kids to come in for Monday?

Adding: but then workplaces would have to be flexible for parents to be able to work from home the week of online learning. That would help keep offices spread out as well.

My sister manages the custodians for our local school board. It can be quite the undertaking keeping schools clean on a normal day!


----------



## isabellea

Frozen2014 said:


> And as you say, working online may be more of the norm.



DH is working for Hydro-Quebec so they are an essential service and they were told they will be working from home until further notice. They currently have no plans for them to go back to the office buildings if not absolutely necessary. Right now he's working from the living room but we are starting to look at options on how to install him a more permanent office in the house. His job brings him to travel a lot (he supervise their suppliers quality control tests) and again, was told no traveling allowed until at least June, that include local travel. I really think working from home when possible will become the new normal for many companies. I work in research so difficult to do my experiment in my kitchen but for paperwork tasks, I will probably do them at home as much as possible in the future.


----------



## isabellea

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> Or, what if in order to keep social distancing in classrooms, they do shifts where half the class does one week in class, one week learn from home online? Then on the weekends, the classrooms can be thoroughly cleaned for the next group of kids to come in for Monday?
> 
> Adding: but then workplaces would have to be flexible for parents to be able to work from home the week of online learning. That would help keep offices spread out as well.
> 
> My sister manages the custodians for our local school board. It can be quite the undertaking keeping schools clean on a normal day!



Elementary schools start again in some regions in QC next week and the max of students per class will be 15 to allow proper distancing (more classes will be open if demand is there since return to school is not mandatory). Recess will be staggered so there are less kids in the corridors and outside. No music class, no PE and lunch will be at their desk. For those staying home, online learning will be increased and those that don't have a computer/tablet or wifi will be helped by the government. I assume that will stay for next fall for the kids that cannot go back for health reasons and for those that are quarantined.


----------



## MamaLema

When the border re-opens, it will give the green light for people to travel to the country with the most cases and deaths. What could go wrong?


----------



## hdrolfe

I work for the Federal Government, critical services for my agency, so we are working from home, and have been setting up many others to do so as well, even the call centres, most are now at home taking calls. I don't think there are any plans to change that. More and more people who are not critical are being set up to work from home as well, they are going to a lot of effort to make that happen, people have to arrange appointments to go in to pick up work stations and get set up. I imagine this will continue for us until at least the fall, and if things have a second wave, then longer.

I work in the kitchen right now but am also thinking I need a better set up. I thank goodness I brought my mouse home with the laptop! I cannot use the touch pad lol. But I also miss my two screens. And my chair. I need to get a good chair for sure. And perhaps a better space to have my "office". 

As for the border and isolation when returning, I think we'll have to wait an see. If the US opens their side of the border and we don't (and I don't believe they will without discussions and agreement on both sides), then yes, I imagine whoever returns to Canada from such a trip would have to isolate. But if we open our side as well, I don't think it will happen. I can perhaps picture it from certain "hot spots" much like Florida is doing at the moment.


----------



## Silvermist999

Our school board sent out an email to high school parents recently advising them that they are aware of valuable items left behind in school lockers over March break (fortunately my daughter took home her clarinet but forgot her almost new Nikes in her locker).  They are now working with public health to figure out whether to allow students to retrieve items before the end of June.  So for those in Ontario wondering if schools will reopen before the end of the school year, based on this email, looks like it won’t.


----------



## hdrolfe

Silvermist999 said:


> Our school board sent out an email to high school parents recently advising them that they are aware of valuable items left behind in school lockers over March break (fortunately my daughter took home her clarinet but forgot her almost new Nikes in her locker).  They are now working with public health to figure out whether to allow students to retrieve items before the end of June.  So for those in Ontario wondering if schools will reopen before the end of the school year, based on this email, looks like it won’t.



We ordered "spirit clothes" right before March break... I wonder if we'll ever get that! Hopefully it will still fit him if we do. At least he remembered to bring home his chromebook and indoor shoes when he came home for March Break. He forgot the cord for the chromebook but I was able to pick that up when they were in the process of handing out chromebooks for the learn from home stuff. 

Interesting though, I assume most school boards will be sending similar messages.


----------



## mshanson3121

Kaadk said:


> Yes, I would expect the mandatory 14 day quarantine to remain as well.  But I don't know if it's going to be as big of an impact as it was at the beginning of all of this.  First off, that would mean retirees would be able to cross (though, those with an pre-existing conditions shouldn't be crossing) without much impact.  They're not affected with needing to miss work, as they don't rely on work for their income.  Secondly, anybody who can work from home, also wouldn't be affected much.  There are those of us, like myself, who had this freedom even before the stay at home orders came in, and there are also those who've had that ability opened up to them.  For instance, my Sis-in-law works in school administration.  Before this all, her working from home would have been unheard of, but now, she's doing the majority of her job from her house.  The infrastructure's been put in place, the working arrangements have been put in place, and the means to continue working from quarantine have increased for many people.
> 
> It's only those who don't have the options to work from home, like some of my family that works in various automotive factories/supplier factories, who would have to take the 14 days off work, but that number of people isn't as large as it was at the start of all this.  Still pretty significant, but still, not as large.



No, but that number will get larger again, and soon - well before the border opens back up. Businesses and stores are starting to open back up. This work from home thing isn't going to last that long for most people. The majority of jobs out there aren't ones that are conducive to working from home.


----------



## mshanson3121

Kaadk said:


> All depends on what the schools do.  I could see this home-schooling approach become part of the new normal, where the kids will be able to quarantine, but still provide their work via their assignments. Our board here uses Edsby, and it seems to be working well for that.  They can see assignments per class, upload their work per class, get feedback on marks per class, they have open communication through the messaging system with their teachers for any questions, clarifications, etc...  The only thing they'd be missing is school interactions, and any of the lectures.
> 
> And those with tech restrictions, like lack of access to the internet, probably wouldn't have the subsided help they're getting now, so yes, those parents probably wouldn't want to travel and then have their kids out of school, but I believe some might.  I'll admit it's not ideal, but it's a possibility I can see coming.  We'll have to wait for the schools to re-open to know how they're planning on dealing with it though.



It's definitely not going to be the new normal. It's temporary. It's not a sustainable approach for education for many, many reasons.


----------



## mkmommy

mshanson3121 said:


> This may have already been answered. I don't know if the federal government is monitoring travel, but yes, you can be turned away. In New Brunswick, all non-essential travel is being turned away at the border (including, Quebec, PEI, Nova Scotia and Maine)


I have heard that communities up on Lake Huron and Lake Erie have hired security/OPP to limit access to their communities to only permanent residents and not seasonal property owners.


----------



## FigmentSpark

Silvermist999 said:


> Our school board sent out an email to high school parents recently advising them that they are aware of valuable items left behind in school lockers over March break (fortunately my daughter took home her clarinet but forgot her almost new Nikes in her locker).  They are now working with public health to figure out whether to allow students to retrieve items before the end of June.  So for those in Ontario wondering if schools will reopen before the end of the school year, based on this email, looks like it won’t.


They could let only grade 12s and those leaving the system to make appointments to get their stuff out of their lockers over a week period.  Everyone else waits until Sept.  Or, they could invest in the money to just mail everyone their stuff from their lockers.  I wonder what things they'll find that are actually contraband?


----------



## Kaadk

FigmentSpark said:


> They could let only grade 12s and those leaving the system to make appointments to get their stuff out of their lockers over a week period.  Everyone else waits until Sept.  Or, they could invest in the money to just mail everyone their stuff from their lockers.  I wonder what things they'll find that are actually contraband?


It can easily be done with scheduled access, either one student or one family at a time, supervised at a social distance, to make sure they only access the lockers and get out with minimal interaction with the school.  Might take all summer with the larger schools though...  

A better approach would be to allow families to choose to whether to retrieve items or not, and providing the school the rights to discard the student's belongings if the family agrees.


----------



## Donald - my hero

*I've been a fly on the wall for this discussion but have what I know is a very valid point regarding the Ontario schooling situation.  We're ignoring the ssegments of our communities that either have marginal or no access to internet,  reliable or not! A very close friend, essentially my sister,  is a principal for a school that is deep in the middle of mennonite country and most if not all of her students have zero access to online teaching,  some don't even have power!!! She goes into her school twice a week to coordinate the transfer of paperwork,  teachers to students then back again for marking using the bus drivers as the transportation links. It's tedious and far less than ideal when dealing with a community that barely tolerates a government run education system.  
then there's our northern communities where they're still struggling with dial up connections! It's nearly impossible for those families to juggle school work,  office work and entertainment needs.  *


----------



## mshanson3121

As far as getting stuff out of the schools, they're opening schools up here (NB) today and tomorrow to allow students time to access their stuff. The schools are open 9-3, and people will be allowed in in guided groups to grab their stuff.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

I must say, I am liking this website!  https://news.paxeditions.com/

Some new cleaning procedures for Air Canada:

https://news.paxeditions.com/news/a...ncare-means-new-measures-come-effect-may-15th


----------



## ottawamom

FigmentSpark said:


> They could let only grade 12s and those leaving the system to make appointments to get their stuff out of their lockers over a week period.  Everyone else waits until Sept.  Or, they could invest in the money to just mail everyone their stuff from their lockers.  I wonder what things they'll find that are actually contraband?



I hate to think of all the rotting lunches sitting in some lockers  . My three sons were terrible about keeping their lockers clean. The garbage that came home at year end was gross...

Those lockers need to be cleaned out before summer or there may be another natural disaster on our hands.


----------



## CdnCarrie

Ours schools here (Manitoba) did a locker cleanup a couple weeks ago.
Procedures were different with middle and high school. It was quite the process.


----------



## Pumpkin1172

the schools here did a locker clean out.  They had it all set out in certain areas, and set it up that parents came at specified times that they could set up...they were asked to come into the school...go directly to the spot where their child's items were and immediately leave the school.  I was amazed at their speed at getting this done in our school district.  Within 2 weeks of our schools closure, I already had an email asking me to select a time slot to pick up any items.  I know many friends were posting on FB about picking up their little ones items.  

I have to say, that I am amazed at our whole school district where we live.  Within two weeks, our teachers were rolling out assignments and had adapted their cirriculums through goggle classrooms.  They have set up times that they are available everyday that the kids can video chat with them to receive any help that they need.  This is high school.  I do know that it took a little longer for the elementary schools...but it didn't take that much longer.  

They also asked, that if ANYONE knew of someone who didn't have access to internet or a computer or tablet, the school was setting those students up with school ones that they could sign out.  So that the students could get their assignments completed.  This is going to take faith on their part, that their equipment will be returned in working order when this is all over.  But they have really tried to reach out and make sure every student receives what they need.  I'm just soooo amazed at their dedication to this!!!!!...alright...i gotta get back to work now lol


----------



## FigmentSpark

Did you guys get an email about locker cleanout?  I know I haven't (in Ontario), but then we're only 'scheduled' to be off school until May 31.  

Also, I'm not sure my HS teens will want be picking through their things from their lockers, lol.


----------



## Frozen2014

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> Or, what if in order to keep social distancing in classrooms, they do shifts where half the class does one week in class, one week learn from home online? Then on the weekends, the classrooms can be thoroughly cleaned for the next group of kids to come in for Monday?
> 
> Adding: but then workplaces would have to be flexible for parents to be able to work from home the week of online learning. That would help keep offices spread out as well.
> 
> My sister manages the custodians for our local school board. It can be quite the undertaking keeping schools clean on a normal day!





FigmentSpark said:


> Did you guys get an email about locker cleanout?  I know I haven't (in Ontario), but then we're only 'scheduled' to be off school until May 31.
> 
> Also, I'm not sure my HS teens will want be picking through their things from their lockers, lol.


Same...also in Ontario with schools closed until May 31....but suspecting it will be end of year.  Wondering what will happen as well.  I know some kids have taken things home to return (musical instruments, text books, reading books)....and then kids picking up their stuff at school in lockers or the classroom.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

deleted


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

Whenever they do re-open, couple of things are for sure: there will be people that will be happy about it, and others that will not be... there will be people that will go ahead with their travel plans, and those that will stay away for a year or more! Regardless of which camp you fall into, we should all respect each other’s decisions. I for one hope to travel earlier rather than later... unless something unforeseen happens, or we are still asked not to travel. We may avoid flying for a few months, but have no problems driving to Florida if restrictions are lifted.


----------



## wdwmom3

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> Whenever they do re-open, couple of things are for sure: there will be people that will be happy about it, and others that will not be... there will be people that will go ahead with their travel plans, and those that will stay away for a year or more! Regardless of which camp you fall into, we should all respect each other’s decisions. I for one hope to travel earlier rather than later... unless something unforeseen happens, or we are still asked not to travel. We may avoid flying for a few months, but have no problems driving to Florida if restrictions are lifted.


That’s great if you feel it’s safe for your family to travel.  But please respect the rest of us.  And this means that as soon as you come back into this country, you and your family go into immediate lockdown for 2 weeks.  And by this I mean don’t even step foot inside a grocery store.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

wdwmom3 said:


> That’s great if you feel it’s safe for your family to travel.  But please respect the rest of us.  And this means that as soon as you come back into this country, you and your family go into immediate lockdown for 2 weeks.  And by this I mean don’t even step foot inside a grocery store.


That’s exactly what I said - to be respectful of each other’s opinions or decisions to travel or not to travel.
Edit - I should add that if borders open and we are allowed to travel, we will obviously follow the recommendations of the government to quarantine if there are any at that point.


----------



## Donald - my hero

*personally I hope people will choose to spend their money traveling within our own country for a while. This is  not because I'm concerned about how the virus is spreading or not,  how it's been dealt with or not in other countries but because I feel it's extremely important to help get Canada's economy moving first. I feel the same way about how we donate money to worthy causes,  if I can see homeless,  hungry people struggling on the streets of my own city I will give my money here first.  My hubby has his own small business which is our sole source of income and even though it's usually more expensive, we make a very conscious effort to buy locally made/ grown products first and actively search out made in Canada products.  We can't expect people to support us if we're not willing to support them.  (All of those statements refer to this household,  I'm not expecting others to feel the same way) 

I'm only talking about traveling for pleasure,  I'm very aware of the difficulties and anguish for those who have families split across borders,  that needs to be addressed.  Before anyone jumps on me, I'm extremely sad that we can't travel to Disney World for quite a long time (that's because we're both in high risk categories btw) since that's the only place,  in the entire world, that I'm able to safely eat food that I don't prepare myself.  I have significant dietary issues that only Disney can handle.  We will travel in Canada but that requires staying somewhere with cooking facilities in our room. *


----------



## thr33boys

@Donald - my hero I completely agree. My family's vacation dollars will be spent in Canada when it's permitted. As soon as we're able to travel within Ontario we're going to go see our parents. My MIL lives by herself and is not coping well with isolation. I'm not sure when we'll get back to Disney but we will one day. In the meantime, we are shopping local and will do our part to support the Canadian economy.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

HappilyEverAfter80 said:


> Donald - my hero said:
> 
> 
> 
> *personally I hope people will choose to spend their money traveling within our own country for a while. This is  not because I'm concerned about how the virus is spreading or not,  how it's been dealt with or not in other countries but because I feel it's extremely important to help get Canada's economy moving first. I feel the same way about how we donate money to worthy causes,  if I can see homeless,  hungry people struggling on the streets of my own city I will give my money here first.  My hubby has his own small business which is our sole source of income and even though it's usually more expensive, we make a very conscious effort to buy locally made/ grown products first and actively search out made in Canada products.  We can't expect people to support us if we're not willing to support them.  (All of those statements refer to this household,  I'm not expecting others to feel the same way)
> 
> I'm only talking about traveling for pleasure,  I'm very aware of the difficulties and anguish for those who have families split across borders,  that needs to be addressed.  Before anyone jumps on me, I'm extremely sad that we can't travel to Disney World for quite a long time (that's because we're both in high risk categories btw) since that's the only place,  in the entire world, that I'm able to safely eat food that I don't prepare myself.  I have significant dietary issues that only Disney can handle.  We will travel in Canada but that requires staying somewhere with cooking facilities in our room. *
> 
> 
> 
> Also agree where feasible to do so...
> We had the trip to wdw planned for months and if we had to cancel, most likely we wouldn’t be able to book anything else big on a whim, even if it was in Canada.
> Add to that, travel in Canada is extremely expensive for some reason. We definitely do what we can to support our local economy by buying/spending  local, and we have mini trips planned to the great wolf lodge in Niagara and the Toronto Zoo and others.
> Really the only travel we could do in Canada is during the summer months, but where we can we will choose that this summer.
> You touch on some really valid points.
> Hope you get to have a wonderful summer.
Click to expand...


----------



## uandmfan

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/pol...ed-to-stay-closed-to-non-essential-travel-to/
The Canada - US border is expected to stay closed to non-essential travel to June 21.  I read this as the US will likely want it reopened after, but it's very hard to predict that far out. And I may be misreading it!


----------



## Kaadk

uandmfan said:


> https://www.theglobeandmail.com/pol...ed-to-stay-closed-to-non-essential-travel-to/
> The Canada - US border is expected to stay closed to non-essential travel to June 21.  I read this as the US will likely want it reopened after, but it's very hard to predict that far out. And I may be misreading it!


That's the same way I've read it.  That Canada is the one proposing the border stays closed and is in the middle of trying to convince the US of the need to keep it closed.


----------



## Jrb1979

Good. I hope it stays closed for awhile. Til we get better screening the border should stay closed


----------



## Kaadk

Jrb1979 said:


> Good. I hope it stays closed for awhile. Til we get better screening the border should stay closed


I'm mixed on it.  I've no desire to go across the border just because, like shopping or whatnot, but at the same time, I (admittedly, selfishly and with no real good reason) want to not have to cancel our booked trip at the end of Aug.


----------



## Jrb1979

Kaadk said:


> I'm mixed on it.  I've no desire to go across the border just because, like shopping or whatnot, but at the same time, I (admittedly, selfishly and with no real good reason) want to not have to cancel our booked trip at the end of Aug.


I have no interest in going to any park this year. Too many restrictions to fully enjoy it.


----------



## Kaadk

Jrb1979 said:


> I have no interest in going to any park this year. Too many restrictions to fully enjoy it.


Agreed.  If I didn't already have everything booked and paid for, I certainly wouldn't have been booking.  Unfortunately, we booked all this back in Jan, before there was even any news about all this.  And at the time, since there was no indication that it would be possible we couldn't go, we booked pretty much everything non-refundable and in some cases, pay in advance, non-refundable.  We have until the end of July to cancel Disney and get a refund, so I'm not so worried about the Disney package, but the rest of the trip is where I'm in doubt.

1) Airfare:  Delta has waived the change fees, but it's credit voucher only, and has to be used within the year.
2) SeaWorld:  Tickets can be changed to anytime through 2021, since it's an international buy, but our day specific add-ons seem like they'll be forfeit.
3) Park and Fly Hotel:  Paid in advance, non-refundable, but I'm lifetime Gold with Marriott, so I might be able to argue that one if I call the Gold line.
4) Mears Shuttle to SeaWorld:  I believe I can cancel this one and get my money back.
5) Disney Beachcomber Shack rental at Typhoon Lagoon:  I was told non-refundable at the time of booking, but from what we've seen of Disney, I hope I can get this back.

And then lastly, there's a couple of not straight forward considerations as well:

1) We booked under a Free Dining offer (had to be booked by Jan 16, we booked on Jan 15th).  Changing our dates, we lose this offer.  With two families of 4 going for 8 nights, that works out to a $3520 USD difference that's not redeemable unless we can get a Free Dining offer again.  So while it's not money out of pocket gone directly, that's a significant difference in the potential re-booking budget.  It's not as simple as just moving the dates.  Outright cancelling on the other hand, means being out the various credits that I can't get refunded on.
2) For that other family, this is their once in a lifetime type of trip, they're not the Disney every 18 months like we are, so if we cancel, we might be cancelling on their ability to even go.


----------



## isabellea

uandmfan said:


> https://www.theglobeandmail.com/pol...ed-to-stay-closed-to-non-essential-travel-to/
> The Canada - US border is expected to stay closed to non-essential travel to June 21.  I read this as the US will likely want it reopened after, but it's very hard to predict that far out. And I may be misreading it!



That's how I read it too. Sucks for those with families on the other side of the border but it's what makes the most sense right now for this country. It wouldn't make sense that we cannot visit another province but can go to the USA?!?


----------



## uandmfan

Kaadk said:


> 3) Park and Fly Hotel:  Paid in advance, non-refundable, but I'm lifetime Gold with Marriott, so I might be able to argue that one if I call the Gold line.



I've seen several emails from Marriott that said they are waiving cancellation fees for trips that were booked as non-refundable. Especially as a gold member I think you can get the $$ back!


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

https://news.paxeditions.com/news/o...der-closure-june-talks-are-going-well-says-pm


----------



## Iralyn

I'm hearing reports (from a different travel group that I'm part of) that the U.S. border is fairly "permeable" - that U.S. border agents are pretty flexible about what is 'essential'.  For instance, a Canadian teenager going to help out her American aunt with childcare (I can see the argument for that being essential) or someone going to visit a friend (I guess not technically a tourist?).  Canadian border officials are being much more rigid according to all reports and are even denying a non-Canadian spouse from crossing the border to join family.  Of course, this is hearsay so I can't be completely sure of its accuracy but I thought it was interesting.  Until a couple weeks ago, I didn't realize that the U.S. as a whole didn't have the same quarantine requirements as Canada for those arriving from outside the country.


----------



## wdwmom3

Iralyn said:


> I'm hearing reports (from a different travel group that I'm part of) that the U.S. border is fairly "permeable" - that U.S. border agents are pretty flexible about what is 'essential'.  For instance, a Canadian teenager going to help out her American aunt with childcare (I can see the argument for that being essential) or someone going to visit a friend (I guess not technically a tourist?).  Canadian border officials are being much more rigid according to all reports and are even denying a non-Canadian spouse from crossing the border to join family.  Of course, this is hearsay so I can't be completely sure of its accuracy but I thought it was interesting.  Until a couple weeks ago, I didn't realize that the U.S. as a whole didn't have the same quarantine requirements as Canada for those arriving from outside the country.



I’m not surprised. And I’m also glad that Canada is being very strict with who they let in. I really hope that the border does stay closed until at least the end of June.

i find the fact that they don’t have quarantine orders in place for people entering the US kind of representative of how the pandemic has been handled there.


----------



## ottawamom

Interesting, but are the Canadians insisting that whoever crosses back in self quarantine for 14 days?


----------



## scrappinginontario

Kaadk said:


> Agreed.  If I didn't already have everything booked and paid for, I certainly wouldn't have been booking.  Unfortunately, we booked all this back in Jan, before there was even any news about all this.  And at the time, since there was no indication that it would be possible we couldn't go, we booked pretty much everything non-refundable and in some cases, pay in advance, non-refundable.  We have until the end of July to cancel Disney and get a refund, so I'm not so worried about the Disney package, but the rest of the trip is where I'm in doubt.
> 
> 1) Airfare:  Delta has waived the change fees, but it's credit voucher only, and has to be used within the year.
> 2) SeaWorld:  Tickets can be changed to anytime through 2021, since it's an international buy, but our day specific add-ons seem like they'll be forfeit.
> 3) Park and Fly Hotel:  Paid in advance, non-refundable, but I'm lifetime Gold with Marriott, so I might be able to argue that one if I call the Gold line.
> 4) Mears Shuttle to SeaWorld:  I believe I can cancel this one and get my money back.
> 5) Disney Beachcomber Shack rental at Typhoon Lagoon:  I was told non-refundable at the time of booking, but from what we've seen of Disney, I hope I can get this back.
> 
> And then lastly, there's a couple of not straight forward considerations as well:
> 
> 1) We booked under a Free Dining offer (had to be booked by Jan 16, we booked on Jan 15th).  Changing our dates, we lose this offer.  With two families of 4 going for 8 nights, that works out to a $3520 USD difference that's not redeemable unless we can get a Free Dining offer again.  So while it's not money out of pocket gone directly, that's a significant difference in the potential re-booking budget.  It's not as simple as just moving the dates.  Outright cancelling on the other hand, means being out the various credits that I can't get refunded on.
> 2) For that other family, this is their once in a lifetime type of trip, they're not the Disney every 18 months like we are, so if we cancel, we might be cancelling on their ability to even go.


Free Dining has been offered by Disney for many years now and I can’t see them stopping it in the economic state the world is facing.  We are booked (although probably not going) in Sep.  This year was to be our 9th year in a row with a FD.
 Trip.  I’m sure that portion of your trip will be bookable in 2021.


----------



## Frozen2014

I just wish they would open the Canadian passport office for processing.  Even if they open the border, we aren't going anywhere (except on nexus) and the longer they wait, the bigger the backlog.  My son't passport expires in January.


----------



## wdwmom3

ottawamom said:


> Interesting, but are the Canadians insisting that whoever crosses back in self quarantine for 14 days?



Yes.  Everyone (except for essential workers like truckers) who come into Canada must quarantine for 14 days.  They must give border officials the address they will be quarantining at.  And explain how they will travel there and how they will do things like get groceries etc.  If your plans aren’t acceptable they will require you to go to a specific place for quarantine (like certain hotels they are using for this) until you have a good plan.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

@Frozen2014 Same! DD's expires in October.

I'm going to pay the extra money to get it expedited, just so w have it in hand.


----------



## Frozen2014

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> @Frozen2014 Same! DD's expires in October.
> 
> I'm going to pay the extra money to get it expedited, just so w have it in hand.


Hope that's an option.  We would have no issue paying extra as well.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Frozen2014 said:


> Hope that's an option.  We would have no issue paying extra as well.



My niece had to do it when she thought she was going away for March Break. I think it was an extra $50?


----------



## FigmentSpark

wdwmom3 said:


> Yes.  Everyone (except for essential workers like truckers) who come into Canada must quarantine for 14 days.  They must give border officials the address they will be quarantining at.  And explain how they will travel there and how they will do things like get groceries etc.  If your plans aren’t acceptable they will require you to go to a specific place for quarantine (like certain hotels they are using for this) until you have a good plan.


Also, they are phoning you and checking up on your location.  I know someone who just got out of quarantine.


----------



## hdrolfe

My son's passport expired last December and I dilly dallied about getting it replaced, had planned to take care of it in March as I was changing jobs and would be really close to the passport office in Ottawa, stupid! Oh well... hopefully I'll be able to get it fairly quickly when things reopen there, and I will pay to expedite as well if it's an option, not sure it will be with how much of a backlog there is likely to be!


----------



## pigletto

I was just thinking about backlogs . My husband was due to renew his sticker in March just as everything closed up . We live about a 15 minute walk from a Service Ontario Centre . He can probably just walk out the front door and get in the line when it opens again .. it will stretch for miles


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

@pigletto can he do it online?


----------



## pigletto

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> @pigletto can he do it online?


It used to be that you can only do it online until your birthday and then you have to go in. His birthday was a few days after it closed. Hopefully they will open it up so that people can do it online without the restriction.


----------



## Sue M

Kaadk said:


> I'm mixed on it.  I've no desire to go across the border just because, like shopping or whatnot, but at the same time, I (admittedly, selfishly and with no real good reason) want to not have to cancel our booked trip at the end of Aug.


Me too, trip booked early August.  Fortunately room only. We didn’t do advance park n fly at Marriott. Just reserved with BCAA discount. Flight booked. Everything booked last fall.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

I really just want WDW and UOR to open and get this party started.  I want to see what happens and see how fast (or slow) they manage everything.  My parents will be 68 and 70 at trip time and I really don't think they want to go if the US is still pumping out the positive cases.


----------



## NAB

pigletto said:


> I was just thinking about backlogs . My husband was due to renew his sticker in March just as everything closed up . We live about a 15 minute walk from a Service Ontario Centre . He can probably just walk out the front door and get in the line when it opens again .. it will stretch for miles


Car sticker? Yes you can do it on line and it will come in the mail. We did this for my daughter a few weeks ago her birthday is Monday. We have it already.


----------



## Silvermist999

NAB said:


> Car sticker? Yes you can do it on line and it will come in the mail. We did this for my daughter a few weeks ago her birthday is Monday. We have it already.



My DH renewed his sticker online over a month ago and still nothing in the mail yet.


----------



## MamaLema

Silvermist999 said:


> My DH renewed his sticker online over a month ago and still nothing in the mail yet.


Same here


----------



## Kaadk

scrappinginontario said:


> Free Dining has been offered by Disney for many years now and I can’t see them stopping it in the economic state the world is facing.  We are booked (although probably not going) in Sep.  This year was to be our 9th year in a row with a FD.
> Trip.  I’m sure that portion of your trip will be bookable in 2021.


Only if we go at the same time next year.  Our vacation schedules don’t always work the same year to year.  If we have to postpone to next year, it’ll have to be in April instead, which is typically not free dining.


Frozen2014 said:


> I just wish they would open the Canadian passport office for processing.  Even if they open the border, we aren't going anywhere (except on nexus) and the longer they wait, the bigger the backlog.  My son't passport expires in January.


Technically, even with Nexus, you’re still supposed to be carrying a valid passport.  I carry mine with me on all trips, despite using my Nexus for all crossings.  Course my passport also has my work permit in it, which I also need to carry with me at all times when cross border.


pigletto said:


> I was just thinking about backlogs . My husband was due to renew his sticker in March just as everything closed up . We live about a 15 minute walk from a Service Ontario Centre . He can probably just walk out the front door and get in the line when it opens again .. it will stretch for miles


I need to renew my health card and DL, and since I need a new photo, I can’t do it online. But the local service Ontario sites are closed, so I can’t do it in person either.  I know they said they’re not penializing people who can’t get theirs renewed because of all this, but it still doesn’t make me feel good about not being able to get it done.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

I think what I don't like about all of these shutdowns is just that...I'm stuck!  I CAN'T get things done or go places. It's almost like a sense of being trapped.


----------



## Jrb1979

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> I think what I don't like about all of these shutdowns is just that...I'm stuck!  I CAN'T get things done or go places. It's almost like a sense of being trapped.


Things are starting to open up now. You may not be able to go across the border but you can go shopping next week. At least here in Ontario you can. You can always go camping


----------



## NAB

Jrb1979 said:


> Things are starting to open up now. You may not be able to go across the border but you can go shopping next week. At least here in Ontario you can. You can always go camping


Camping isn’t open yet here . You can go into the provincial parks but no camping.


----------



## Sue M

NAB said:


> Camping isn’t open yet here . You can go into the provincial parks but no camping.


In B. C. I think the provincial camp sites open after long weekend?


----------



## bcwife76

Sue M said:


> In B. C. I think the provincial camp sites open after long weekend?


Discover BC campsites open for reservations on May 25 for reservations starting June 1.


----------



## HappilyEverAfter80

pigletto said:


> It used to be that you can only do it online until your birthday and then you have to go in. His birthday was a few days after it closed. Hopefully they will open it up so that people can do it online without the restriction.


I renewed my sticker online about a week after my bday, but almost 2 months later still don’t have it in the mail....


Silvermist999 said:


> My DH renewed his sticker online over a month ago and still nothing in the mail yet.


Same - well almost 2 months, I renewed mine about March 28th.


----------



## Jrb1979

Here in St Catharines a couple of the service Ontario offices have opened. Going tomorrow to get my license and health card done.


----------



## wdwmom3

They just announced border will remain closed except for essential travel until June 21st.  I’m very relieved about this.


----------



## Susan2771

pigletto said:


> I was just thinking about backlogs . My husband was due to renew his sticker in March just as everything closed up . We live about a 15 minute walk from a Service Ontario Centre . He can probably just walk out the front door and get in the line when it opens again .. it will stretch for miles



I pass by a ministry of transportation office close to my house everyday and they are open.  The line up is quite long but it's open.  I am in Etobicoke


----------



## DnA2010

Well closed for another month- makes sense and makes me happy.


----------



## bcwife76

Yep, no surprise it was extended til June 21. Better call DCL soon to cancel our Dream cruise, I need to cancel by June 10 so we don't lose our deposit


----------



## Jrb1979

I for one hope the border stays closed til the U.S. gets a better handle on things. We need better screening for anything to reopen.


----------



## gskywalker

I don't want it that way but the smart move is to keep them closed until schools go back in September to minimize people coming back from other countries.  That would cancel our August trip, which would be our 4th Disney Trip cancelled from this pandemic.  If that happens I will probably try to rent out our DVC points and get the refund on the half a year of our annual pass.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

bcwife76 said:


> Discover BC campsites open for reservations on May 25 for reservations starting June 1.



Wait, what? You guys get to go camping? ugh


----------



## Kaadk

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> Wait, what? You guys get to go camping? ugh


We don't.  Campgrounds here in Ontario are allowed to 'prep' but not actually open.  And even if they were, our fiver was broken into over the winter, and our dealer hasn't been able to get the window replaced because the window manufacturer in Indiana is closed due to COVID, so we can't go camping at all until they open, make a window, ship it to the dealer, dealer fixes the rig, we get the rig back, dewinterize it (not just the lines, but all the usual spring time stuff like cleaning it, stocking it, etc....) and then we can finally think about going camping.

I've made a reservation for mid July at one of the PP, but no idea if we'll even be able to do that.


----------



## Jrb1979

For my trailer I was told when they do open bathrooms and the pool will be closed for the season. Unless you have a bathroom and a shower in your trailer its not worth it this summer.


----------



## Kaadk

As long as I have power, and can use a dump station on the way out, I'm good for the most part, so the lack of a campground bathroom doesn't affect us too much.  If we're on a sewered site, we don't ever use the camp bathrooms.  If it's a dump station, we're normally about 50/50 on the use, but I can fully use our own facilities too if needed, just have to keep an eye on the tank levels.


----------



## Etch

Jrb1979 said:


> bathrooms and the pool will be closed for the season



Thanks for posting, I never even thought of this.  We have a tent trailer with a sink for washing hands but no washroom.

I'm going to order one of the those portable "Luggable Loos" right now because i'm sure they'll be impossible to find if campgrounds  announce that their washrooms will be closed.  Not exactly the lap of luxury but at least we can still go.....camping that is.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

There goes any tent camping. Man, this summer is going to suck so bad LOL


----------



## csm101

mshanson3121 said:


> I know the closure has been extended to May 20th. When do you think we'll see the border re-opening? Do you think it'll be province by province depending on risk zones? All at once? Do you think individual provinces will require quarentine even after it opens? When do you personally want to see it reopen?



June 21st is the next earliest date. If Canada is still having issues with spread I hope we keep it closed but it will be a hard sell to the Americans


----------



## Kaadk

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> There goes any tent camping. Man, this summer is going to suck so bad LOL


Hopefully, they'll open up later in the summer.  We're starting to look at booking what we can, and just making sure they have the ability to cancel if it's not going to work for us.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

csm101 said:


> June 21st is the next earliest date. If Canada is still having issues with spread I hope we keep it closed but it will be a hard sell to the Americans



If our interprovincial borders are still closed, where do the Americans think they will be able to visit? LOL  As a Nova Scotian, if I can't even access PEI or NB, why on earth would Americans be even allowed within our Country?


----------



## Kaadk

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> If our interprovincial borders are still closed, where do the Americans think they will be able to visit? LOL  As a Nova Scotian, if I can't even access PEI or NB, why on earth would Americans be even allowed within our Country?


I think he meant it would be even harder to convince them to keep the border closed.  I believe this last round, the Americans were already pushing to get it opened.  Next time, it'll be even harder.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

But that's what I am saying.  If we as Canadians cannot visit other provinces, until that restriction is lifted, why would we allow Americans?  If they lift the US/Canada ban, they should lift ALL travel bans within Canada.


----------



## isabellea

QC Premier said he hopes the border doesn’t    re-open before end of July.


----------



## mshanson3121

Kaadk said:


> I think he meant it would be even harder to convince them to keep the border closed.  I believe this last round, the Americans were already pushing to get it opened.  Next time, it'll be even harder.



Yes, they were, though of course Canadian media is playing it like they were "more than agreeable" to keep it closed. Hah. American media tells a different tale.


----------



## mshanson3121

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> But that's what I am saying.  If we as Canadians cannot visit other provinces, until that restriction is lifted, why would we allow Americans?  If they lift the US/Canada ban, they should lift ALL travel bans within Canada.



So we have an interesting conundrum in NB. There is a golf course in NW NB that straddles the border. The course itself is actually on Canadian soil, but the parking lot, pro shop and first tee are on American soil. Before 9/11 there was a country road Canadians could take to access the course without going through the border. However, they shut that down after 9/11. Anyways, so now, Canadians (including members - of which 50% of club members are Canadian) are prohibited from accessing the course. Fine and dandy - the border is closed, we get that. BUT... the problem a lot of people have is that, on the flip side, despite borders being closed, Americans are allowed to play and cross into Canadian soil via the course.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

One golf course isn't enough to open it.


----------



## mshanson3121

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> One golf course isn't enough to open it.



No, for sure. Just pointing out, it's a predicament. They are lobbying to get an exemption for course members however.


----------



## bcwife76

Cancelled our August trip today, Disney Dream cruise and stay at OKW (will call DVC in the morning to cancel that part), just couldn't take all the uncertainty. Rebooked the cruise for March 2021 and as long as our borrowed 2020 points can be put back, will try and book something at the 7 month mark. Next trip on the chopping block: 4 night Disney Wonder mid October  Have until mid July to cancel without penalty.


----------



## Woodview

What are the chances of the  border between    USA & Canada  being open  by the end of August ?

We have booked to fly  , from Ireland , to Seattle    then  pick up rental car   & drive to Vancouver   & onwards .

  Return   From Canada   at Nelson / Bonners Ferry   area  into    USA     and on to  Spokane   to Seattle .

   IF  the border  is  open   from   USA     will it be  open  From  Canada  to USA  ?

    Whether  the border  is open   ...  the   Flight to Seattle  might not   be going  

    Even if it is    WE might  not  travel  to  Seattle     due to   the   Virus.


----------



## wdwmom3

Woodview said:


> What are the chances of the  border between    USA & Canada  being open  by the end of August ?
> 
> We have booked to fly  , from Ireland , to Seattle    then  pick up rental car   & drive to Vancouver   & onwards .
> 
> Return   From Canada   at Nelson / Bonners Ferry   area  into    USA     and on to  Spokane   to Seattle .
> 
> IF  the border  is  open   from   USA     will it be  open  From  Canada  to USA  ?
> 
> Whether  the border  is open   ...  the   Flight to Seattle  might not   be going
> 
> Even if it is    WE might  not  travel  to  Seattle     due to   the   Virus.



nobody really knows. If cases spike up in the US it could stay closed. But even if it is open in August I think you can pretty much guarantee you will be subject to a mandatory 14 day quarantine period once entering Canada. And they are checking up on this. You are required to give specific details about where you will be quarantined and how you will get things like food. And they do check to make sure you are doing whah you say.

i think I read that BC campgrounds will only be open for residents this year.  They don’t even want people from other provinces visiting.  So very unlikely they will want any tourists from other countries.  BC had worked very hard to keep their numbers low.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

If the border does open this summer, you might find provinces wanting to keep their borders closed to keep Internationals out.  Can they do that if the federal government opens the Country's border? There would be nowhere for the tourists to go LOL


----------



## bcwife76

wdwmom3 said:


> nobody really knows. If cases spike up in the US it could stay closed. But even if it is open in August I think you can pretty much guarantee you will be subject to a mandatory 14 day quarantine period once entering Canada. And they are checking up on this. You are required to give specific details about where you will be quarantined and how you will get things like food. And they do check to make sure you are doing whah you say.
> 
> i think I read that BC campgrounds will only be open for residents this year.  They don’t even want people from other provinces visiting.  So very unlikely they will want any tourists from other countries.  BC had worked very hard to keep their numbers low.


I live in BC and the reservation system just opened this morning for camping (and promptly crashed btw!). I think the point of only having ressies is BC residents wasn't so much that we want people from other provinces to stay home, but it's due to lack of capacity. Only 50% of sites will be open in each park and if you let anyone book those sites, regardless of where they live, then BC residents could be left out in the cold. I think they were just trying to be more fair is all. Also I will point out, both AB and SK are also allowing only residents of those provinces to book provincial campgrounds as well.


----------



## wdwmom3

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> If the border does open this summer, you might find provinces wanting to keep their borders closed to keep Internationals out.  Can they do that if the federal government opens the Country's border? There would be nowhere for the tourists to go LOL



Yes they can.  Right now there are restrictions on travel between some provinces.  I can’t think of all of them.  But I believe PEI is only allowing residents of PEI.


----------



## wdwmom3

bcwife76 said:


> I live in BC and the reservation system just opened this morning for camping (and promptly crashed btw!). I think the point of only having ressies is BC residents wasn't so much that we want people from other provinces to stay home, but it's due to lack of capacity. Only 50% of sites will be open in each park and if you let anyone book those sites, regardless of where they live, then BC residents could be left out in the cold. I think they were just trying to be more fair is all. Also I will point out, both AB and SK are also allowing only residents of those provinces to book provincial campgrounds as well.



Sorry.  I didn’t mean to seem like it was just BC.  The poster had mentioned BC that’s why I mentioned it.  I know other provinces have similar restrictions.  And honestly I think it’s a good idea.


----------



## bcwife76

wdwmom3 said:


> Sorry.  I didn’t mean to seem like it was just BC.  The poster had mentioned BC that’s why I mentioned it.  I know other provinces have similar restrictions.  And honestly I think it’s a good idea.


I think it's a good idea too (and I'm not even a camper except for KOAs lol).


----------



## von Monster

wdwmom3 said:


> Yes they can.  Right now there are restrictions on travel between some provinces.  I can’t think of all of them.  But I believe PEI is only allowing residents of PEI.



They are but the legality of it is questionable - according to the Charter that power rests exclusively with the Federal Government. The CCLA has picked up a case in NL to use an example.


----------



## SirDuff

Woodview said:


> What are the chances of the  border between    USA & Canada  being open  by the end of August ?
> 
> We have booked to fly  , from Ireland , to Seattle    then  pick up rental car   & drive to Vancouver   & onwards .
> 
> Return   From Canada   at Nelson / Bonners Ferry   area  into    USA     and on to  Spokane   to Seattle .
> 
> IF  the border  is  open   from   USA     will it be  open  From  Canada  to USA  ?
> 
> Whether  the border  is open   ...  the   Flight to Seattle  might not   be going
> 
> Even if it is    WE might  not  travel  to  Seattle     due to   the   Virus.



The border might be open and you still might not be able to cross it.  Right now (independent of the US/Canada border issue), neither the US nor Canada will allow in people from Europe (I think that Ireland is included in that).  If the US lifts this ban before Canada, unless you are willing to spend 14 days in the US before driving to Vancouver, you'd still not be able to cross into Canada, even if the US/Canada border reopened.

I'm a Canadian living in Europe with family in Canada and the US.  As it stands now, I can visit my Canadian family (since I'm Canadian), though I'd have to self-isolate for 14 days on arrival (so, I'd only do in some sort of emergency) but cannot see family in the US (and wouldn't be able to even if the US/Canada border was open - unless, as above, I spent 14 days in Canada first).

Funny, I was actually back home when the US started its ban of Europeans.  I had to quickly change my flights back, as I had originally planned to fly back via the US (luckily, United gave me no trouble the change (for free), even though my new flight was not one on which they were a codeshare and, usually, is super expensive to book through them)


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

bcwife76 said:


> I think it's a good idea too (and I'm not even a camper except for KOAs lol).



We love KOA in Cavedish, PEI!


----------



## Kaadk

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> We love KOA in Cavedish, PEI!


Ditto on the KOAs here, though we usually hit the ones in States more often than the ones in Ontario.  Niagara Falls is a nice one, but the Toronto West and Toronto North were a bit of letdown compared to some of the other KOAs we've stayed at.  I like to use the KOAs for any of our week long 'tourist' type trips, like Hershey, Pigeon Forge, etc...  But since they're pricy, we mix them up with either provincial parks or mom & pop campgrounds for the shorter weekend trips.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

I wish we were closer to more of them.  I'm not driving 2 days to get to a campsite LOL

We have a KOA just outside of Halifax, but it's much better just as a RV park. Not so much for campsites.


----------



## Kaadk

I've driven 2 days, but those are for those week long trips I mentioned.  I'll usually book a KOA about 1/2 way to those as well.  Like, for the Pigeon Forge trip, I booked into a KOA in Cincinnati for a night on the way there, and on the way back.  But those trips I'm not going there just for the KOA.  I'm going there for the tourist trap offerings, and making use of a KOA as my choice of campground while there.

Looking at the KOA map, looks like there's a handful of parks in the maritimes, 1 in NFLD, 2 in NS, 1 in NB and 3 in PEI.  How distant are those from you?  I remember several years ago I was on vacation in Halifax (pre camping days) and I was able to drive to Charlottetown PEI and back to Halifax in a day.  It was a long day, and we didn't have long in Charlottetown, but surely you could make most of them (except maybe NFLD) in say, a day's drive since you'd only be heading in one direction.  It looks like the kind of distance we'd probably do for an extended long weekend (like take the friday off for the drive there, spend Fri, Sat, Sun, drive home on a holiday Monday.)

Oh, and I realize we're going completely off topic, so to 'kind of' bring it back on topic, of course you wouldn't be able to do any of those trips other than the one in your home province until they open the borders between the provinces. There, that's back on topic right?


----------



## Sue M

bcwife76 said:


> Discover BC campsites open for reservations on May 25 for reservations starting June 1.


My daughter managed to get 2 reservations but took hours with crashing web site.  She’s going twice this summer. Once with fiancé and another couple, and another time with a girlfriend. On one res they couldn't get first choice But she’s happy. They’re tent camping.


----------



## Pumpkin1172

Honestly, I don't know when the right time would be to open up the boarder.  We in Canada have done a great job of flattening the curve and keep the infection rate very low.  It makes me wonder/almost scared at how bad the " second wave "  might be.  I would rather see the boarder open sooner before the second wave, then close it again once infection rates start rising again.  At least in the summer we have more ways to practice social distancing.  Once the weather cools down and we are forced inside of buildings again, where social distancing is harder.  I'm glad I don't have to be the one making that decision.

I guess I'm also " hopefully - which is probably naive thinking "  that those who travel interprovincially OR visiting from other countries where their infection rates were much higher than ours, will use some common courtesy and do the social distancing, wash their hands, and if they are sick....STAY IN THEIR HOTELS until they go home.  

Do I want to travel around...YES!!!!  We travel in Canada during the summers, and I would love to do a trip somewhere warm this winter.  But I'm not holding my breath on that one.  I think it will be quite some time before travelling internationally will be as easy as it once was.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

My SIL has already canceled our AC Vacation flight deposits for Atlantis this summer.  We are going to rebook for next summer, likely June 30-July 7 - right when all of our kids are done school for the year.


----------



## Sue M

Pumpkin1172 said:


> Honestly, I don't know when the right time would be to open up the boarder.  We in Canada have done a great job of flattening the curve and keep the infection rate very low.  It makes me wonder/almost scared at how bad the " second wave "  might be.  I would rather see the boarder open sooner before the second wave, then close it again once infection rates start rising again.  At least in the summer we have more ways to practice social distancing.  Once the weather cools down and we are forced inside of buildings again, where social distancing is harder.  I'm glad I don't have to be the one making that decision.
> 
> I guess I'm also " hopefully - which is probably naive thinking "  that those who travel interprovincially OR visiting from other countries where their infection rates were much higher than ours, will use some common courtesy and do the social distancing, wash their hands, and if they are sick....STAY IN THEIR HOTELS until they go home.
> 
> Do I want to travel around...YES!!!!  We travel in Canada during the summers, and I would love to do a trip somewhere warm this winter.  But I'm not holding my breath on that one.  I think it will be quite some time before travelling internationally will be as easy as it once was.


I’m of 2 minds. Yes I’d love to see the border open this summer, for myself so I can have my Aug WDW trip!  Lol. And because I live near the US/BC border I know families are separated. My sister in laws brother and his family were transferred to Seattle, for work. Both he and his wife have aging parents here in B.C. they can’t see.
But when we see the pictures on the news of the behaviour during their holiday weekend I’m   And think keep those borders closed!


----------



## Pumpkin1172

Sue M said:


> I’m of 2 minds. Yes I’d love to see the border open this summer, for myself so I can have my Aug WDW trip! Lol. And because I live near the US/BC border I know families are separated. My sister in laws brother and his family were transferred to Seattle, for work. Both he and his wife have aging parents here in B.C. they can’t see.
> But when we see the pictures on the news of the behaviour during their holiday weekend I’m  And think keep those borders closed!


Yup...ditto!!!  There is a reason we have keep our infection rate low.  We started to isolate WAY before our numbers even started to get out of hand.  As much as I want the boarder to open so that we could MAYBE ( if we really wanted to chance it ) make a trip elsewhere, I think we will just stay put.  

I would love a warm winter getaway, but at the rate, I really don't see that happening if we have to quarantine when we get home or vice versa.  Sadly, we can't take 3 weeks off for a one week holiday somewhere


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Praying to the vaccine gods that by April 2021 we can travel safely!


----------



## hdrolfe

I am still hopeful for my December cruise, but we will cancel if necessary. I do hope that by next summer we'll be able to go away, perhaps do two weeks in Orlando for a combined Disney/Universal/SeaWorld vacation. Since I won't be using many vacation days this summer, I'll have some saved up.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

I have 8 weeks of vacation! 5 weeks are my regular allowance, plus I carried over 3 weeks from last year. I had 3 trips planned this year so I was banking it all up.


----------



## Kaadk

We can only carry over 2 weeks (10 days) year to year.  I also get 5 weeks per year, but my company gives out 1/12 of your vacation per month.  So I basically carry over the 10 days every year, in order to have some semblance of vacation time available to me at the start of the year.  By the end of the year, I'll have normally used my 2 carry over, and 3 of my 5 gained, once again carrying over 2.

It's going to be hard to use up my vacation time this year, if we can't go anywhere.  It seems odd to me to use vacation days to just sit around the house.


----------



## Silvermist999

Kaadk said:


> We can only carry over 2 weeks (10 days) year to year.  I also get 5 weeks per year, but my company gives out 1/12 of your vacation per month.  So I basically carry over the 10 days every year, in order to have some semblance of vacation time available to me at the start of the year.  By the end of the year, I'll have normally used my 2 carry over, and 3 of my 5 gained, once again carrying over 2.
> 
> It's going to be hard to use up my vacation time this year, if we can't go anywhere.  It seems odd to me to use vacation days to just sit around the house.



Both DH and I also have 5 weeks per year,  had to cancel our March break trip, so we’ve got 25 days each plus personal days to use up by year end.  They don’t allow us to carry any over to next year (different employers, but same industry).  Normally we have no issues using them all up, not only for trips, but to manage numerous school holidays or when the kids had to stay home due to illness. Now we are always home together...


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

And if we are working from home this summer, I don't need vacation to sit on my deck with my laptop LOL


----------



## bcwife76

My husband gets 4 weeks a year and it must be booked all at once (the vacation calendar goes from mid March to mid March) and cannot be moved once you have submitted your dates. He used his first week to go to Hawaii at the beginning of spring break (then we quarantined when we got back). But as of right now our July plans are cancelled, we just cancelled August and October looks tenuous at best.  So there's a huge waste of vacation time. We'll probably head to the Okanagan in August I think but that may be it now until March 2021. Sigh.


----------



## Kaadk

bcwife76 said:


> My husband gets 4 weeks a year and it must be booked all at once (the vacation calendar goes from mid March to mid March) and cannot be moved once you have submitted your dates. He used his first week to go to Hawaii at the beginning of spring break (then we quarantined when we got back). But as of right now our July plans are cancelled, we just cancelled August and October looks tenuous at best.  So there's a huge waste of vacation time. We'll probably head to the Okanagan in August I think but that may be it now until March 2021. Sigh.


My wife's is thankfully not quite that strict.  She also has to book the majority of her vacation in one shot, but only for what they consider 'peak weeks'.  They book those with what I call her 'vacation lottery'.  Basically, in the role she has, only 1 is allowed off at any one time.  So, sometime in the spring, their boss brings them all together, and they go around the room booking everyone's 1st pick (by seniority), then everyone's second pick, everyone's third pick... etc...  

Since I have more flexibility, once her 'lottery' is done, I know what weeks she got off work, and then book mine to match.


----------



## mshanson3121

Woodview said:


> What are the chances of the  border between    USA & Canada  being open  by the end of August ?
> 
> We have booked to fly  , from Ireland , to Seattle    then  pick up rental car   & drive to Vancouver   & onwards .
> 
> Return   From Canada   at Nelson / Bonners Ferry   area  into    USA     and on to  Spokane   to Seattle .
> 
> IF  the border  is  open   from   USA     will it be  open  From  Canada  to USA  ?
> 
> Whether  the border  is open   ...  the   Flight to Seattle  might not   be going
> 
> Even if it is    WE might  not  travel  to  Seattle     due to   the   Virus.



I skipped a lot of comments, so I may be repeating, but honestly, you're better off cancelling your trip. There is a good chance the border will still be closed to people coming in from the US, and I can absolutely guarentee that even if it's open, you will be required to quarantine for 14 days. So, you will literally not be able to leave your hotel room for 14 days. As someone else said - they ARE checking on people, and I know here, you are subject to fines and/or jail time if you break quarantine.



ilovetotravel1977 said:


> If the border does open this summer, you might find provinces wanting to keep their borders closed to keep Internationals out.  Can they do that if the federal government opens the Country's border? There would be nowhere for the tourists to go LOL





wdwmom3 said:


> Yes they can.  Right now there are restrictions on travel between some provinces.  I can’t think of all of them.  But I believe PEI is only allowing residents of PEI.





von Monster said:


> They are but the legality of it is questionable - according to the Charter that power rests exclusively with the Federal Government. The CCLA has picked up a case in NL to use an example.




Yes, they can. Nova Scotia, PEI, NB all have restrictions on. Some are trying to fight the legality of it, however, under the State of Emergency Act (which is currently in place in NB), they can legally keep the provincial borders closed. No one is allowed to enter NB for example where I live, for non-essential reasons.


----------



## mshanson3121

Kaadk said:


> I remember several years ago I was on vacation in Halifax (pre camping days) and I was able to drive to Charlottetown PEI and back to Halifax in a day.



Charlottetown to Halifax is a really easy drive now. It's only about 3.5 hours depending on traffic.



Sue M said:


> I’m of 2 minds. Yes I’d love to see the border open this summer, for myself so I can have my Aug WDW trip!  Lol. And because I live near the US/BC border I know families are separated. My sister in laws brother and his family were transferred to Seattle, for work. Both he and his wife have aging parents here in B.C. they can’t see.
> But when we see the pictures on the news of the behaviour during their holiday weekend I’m   And think keep those borders closed!



This. After seeing the Memorial Day weekend posts, nope... the border can stay closed. And I say that as someone who finds it difficult having it closed. We live on a border town, and used to do quite a bit of shopping over there. The shut down has definitely affected our grocery bill. Plus the ski hill and golf course that we use are both on the US side. So, no golfing or skiing for us this year if the border doesn't open up.  We also homeschool and so many of our supplies can only be purchased state-side, or are significantly cheaper state-side, so I've had to completely change our plans for next year.



ilovetotravel1977 said:


> Praying to the vaccine gods that by April 2021 we can travel safely!



June for us, but same sentiment.


----------



## von Monster

mshanson3121 said:


> Yes, they can. Nova Scotia, PEI, NB all have restrictions on. Some are trying to fight the legality of it, however, under the State of Emergency Act (which is currently in place in NB), they can legally keep the provincial borders closed. No one is allowed to enter NB for example where I live, for non-essential reasons.



No - once again they are doing it, but the legality of said measure is questionable without using the notwithstanding clause of the charter. The only body with juristiction to control both trade and travel between the provinces (and foreign states ie the USA) would be the Federal Government. NB/NL/NS are currently restricting entry, however the case I listed shows that the CCLA (and others including myself) hold the view that they lack the authority to do so.

I'll leave you with Section 6 - Mobility of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. I would take a good read of Section 6(2) and section 6(3) – the right to inter-provincial mobility.


----------



## mshanson3121

von Monster said:


> No - once again they are doing it, but the legality of said measure is questionable without using the notwithstanding clause of the charter. The only body with juristiction to control both trade and travel between the provinces (and foreign states ie the USA) would be the Federal Government. NB/NL/NS are currently restricting entry, however the case I listed shows that the CCLA (and others including myself) hold the view that they lack the authority to do so.
> 
> I'll leave you with Section 6 - Mobility of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. I would take a good read of Section 6(2) and section 6(3) – the right to inter-provincial mobility.



I honestly have no issue with it. I'm happy to have the borders closed for now


----------



## nicmc1986

We cancelled our September trip to WDW back in March because I figured the borders wouldn't be open and if they were it would be a mandatory self-isolation period for 14 days - with work that is something I can't afford to do. I'm hoping they will be open by the end of the year if not in early 2021 with limited travel restrictions (ie. no self-isolation just a self-monitor). Keeping my fingers crossed that campgrounds open in Ontario for my 2 weeks of vacation in the summer.


----------



## Frozen2014

Today it was announced that large cruise ships aren't allowed in Canada until Oct 31.  I assume this will lessons the hope of the borders opening then.  :-(


----------



## MamaLema

Frozen2014 said:


> Today it was announced that large cruise ships aren't allowed in Canada until Oct 31.  I assume this will lessons the hope of the borders opening then.  :-(


I believe they can come if they have less than 100 people. I just don’t get how it will work if they have to quarantine for 14 days or are they just passing by the sights?
Maybe I’m wrong?

Transport Minister Marc Garneau said Thursday passenger ships with overnight accommodations for more than 100 people - including both passengers and crew - can't operate in Canadian waters until at least Oct. 31.


----------



## pigletto

Frozen2014 said:


> Today it was announced that large cruise ships aren't allowed in Canada until Oct 31.  I assume this will lessons the hope of the borders opening then.  :-(


I don‘t think that staying closed  to cruise ships, (which were absolute hotbeds of rapid spreading Covid transmission when this all started) means that the border won’t be opening. The cruise ships with their thousands of passengers and crew from all over the world are a huge risk. In my opinion it’s a wise move but won’t mean the borders stay closed that long .


----------



## momof2gr8kids

I think they'll make some exceptions soon for families that are separated, but the quarrantine will probably still be in place.  After reading about that doctor that didn't self isolate and went on to infect people, I can't see them doing away with that right now.  
I think we might have 1 active case in our area right now.  We have a lot of border towns around us with anxious americans wanting access to their property they own (cottages).  I could see them expanding the list of who is able to come across to include business or resort owners and those that own property, but I can't see it opening up for a free for all to let everyone come and go like before after being so strict.


----------



## tinkerone

My thought  (for what it's worth) is that the borders will stay closed for as long as the cruise ships are banned.  Yes, cruise ships are hot beds and it can spread quickly from one to another but all you have to do is turn to any news station and see the hot mess the US is right now.  They don't seem to be taking this seriously for the most part and it can spread just as quickly with a group of weekend partiers crossing for some fun as it can from a group coming off a ship for an excursion.  Our area has no cases and has been very careful but we are a historical site and a very popular vacation destination.  We are twenty minutes from a border crossing.  If the borders open up we will see it show up for sure.  

I just don't see the government blocking one end but opening up the other however the government has done some weird stuff so who knows.  Guess we wait and see.


----------



## stfxkid

I’m worried that they may open soon but the states might devolve into an insurrection before I get to go down.


----------



## FigmentSpark

stfxkid said:


> I’m worried that they may open soon but the states might devolve into an insurrection before I get to go down.


Yeah, that was a surprise.


----------



## Jrb1979

I'm already expecting to not go to any parks in the U.S. for the rest of the year. As long as Wonderland in Toronto area opens I will be happy. People will just have to take their littles there instead.


----------



## stfxkid

FigmentSpark said:


> Yeah, that was a surprise.


Also be aware travel insurance will likely not cover this.


https://www.tripsavvy.com/travel-insurance-in-time-of-war-or-civil-unrest-2973077
“Nearly all *travel insurance policies* exclude *war* and civil *war*, declared or undeclared, from covered events. This exclusion means that if your *trip* is delayed or you must cancel it entirely because of *war*or civil unrest, you will not be entitled to reimbursement from your *travel insurance* provider.”


----------



## pigletto

tinkerone said:


> My thought  (for what it's worth) is that the borders will stay closed for as long as the cruise ships are banned.  Yes, cruise ships are hot beds and it can spread quickly from one to another but all you have to do is turn to any news station and see the hot mess the US is right now.  They don't seem to be taking this seriously for the most part and it can spread just as quickly with a group of weekend partiers crossing for some fun as it can from a group coming off a ship for an excursion.  Our area has no cases and has been very careful but we are a historical site and a very popular vacation destination.  We are twenty minutes from a border crossing.  If the borders open up we will see it show up for sure.
> 
> I just don't see the government blocking one end but opening up the other however the government has done some weird stuff so who knows.  Guess we wait and see.


I don’t disagree with you in principal and think it should stay closed , but I have a feeling it won’t stay closed that long . I too live in a heavily touristed border area and I think the devastation to that economy will play into decisions to open .
I also know this isn’t the place for politics so I will keep it brief and only say that when I stand back and give my head a shake and take a good look at what’s going on down there I would feel like I wasn’t being true to my ideals to travel there right now. It’s so disheartening and I just can’t be a part of it , even in a small way . Sometimes I forget that and I have to take a good hard look again and I’m painfully reminded. I’ll leave it there .


----------



## von Monster

stfxkid said:


> Also be aware travel insurance will likely not cover this.
> 
> 
> https://www.tripsavvy.com/travel-insurance-in-time-of-war-or-civil-unrest-2973077
> “Nearly all *travel insurance policies* exclude *war* and civil *war*, declared or undeclared, from covered events. This exclusion means that if your *trip* is delayed or you must cancel it entirely because of *war*or civil unrest, you will not be entitled to reimbursement from your *travel insurance* provider.”



You're seriously worried about the United States devolving into armed chaos ala Syria? Sell Fear much? Maybe you should never leave your house again.

It's called riots, and they happen in more or less every Western democracy at some point or another - or are you terrified to travel to France due to the gilets jaunes or Vancouver due to the Canucks choking?

EDIT - I should probably have left this be due to the "Reminder about Politics and Religion" sticky, but this and the other threads are rapidly devolving into fear-mongering as opposed to providing useful information on the border opening.


----------



## stfxkid

von Monster said:


> You're seriously worried about the United States devolving into armed chaos


The United States Army mobilized in one state, the national guard in two others. Mass protest though out the US, with curfews in many cities.   This doesn’t seem normal to me.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

This whole Canadian forum is based on positivity, open discussions, and understanding.

@von Monster, we do not fear monger here.  

_*heading back over to my safe threads now*_


----------



## von Monster

stfxkid said:


> The United States Army mobilized in one state, the national guard in two others. Mass protest though out the US, with curfews in many cities.   This doesn’t seem normal to me.



1./ Thanks for butchering my quote - if you're going to quote someone at least quote the full sentence. Or at least the intent.
2./ You originally indicated that travel insurance was not going to be valid as the United States was falling into civil war, not that deploying the NG wasn't normal.

Is the NG being deployed unusual? Yes; however mass unrest in the US is much like mass unrest in France - something I would expect/anticipate and take care to avoid.
Is it likely to be an issue when the border finally opens? No.
Is the US going to fall into *CIVIL WAR* like your *ORIGINAL POST *indicated thereby nullifying your travel insurance? Highly unlikely.


----------



## von Monster

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> This whole Canadian forum is based on positivity, open discussions, and understanding.
> 
> @von Monster, we do not fear monger here.
> 
> _*heading back over to my safe threads now*_





stfxkid said:


> I’m worried that they may open soon but the states might devolve into an insurrection before I get to go down.



Posting that the USA was falling into civil war isn't fear-mongering?


----------



## stfxkid

I hope you are right


----------



## SleeplessInTO

This might be a dumb question but isn’t Air Canada resuming (or already) flying between Canada and the US? Doesn’t sound like our borders are closed.


----------



## von Monster

From my understanding the US is only restricting access at the land border with Canada with no restrictions on air travel - https://ca.usembassy.gov/travel-restrictions-fact-sheet/

From the Q&A section:

*Q:  What will this mean for airline travel and other travel across the border?

A:  *This action does not apply to air, rail, or sea travel at this time, but does apply to commuter rail and ferry travel.


----------



## SleeplessInTO

von Monster said:


> From my understanding the US is only restricting access at the land border with Canada with no restrictions on air travel - https://ca.usembassy.gov/travel-restrictions-fact-sheet/
> 
> From the Q&A section:
> 
> *Q:  What will this mean for airline travel and other travel across the border?
> 
> A:  *This action does not apply to air, rail, or sea travel at this time, but does apply to commuter rail and ferry travel.


Thanks! That explains it.


----------



## tinkerone

SleeplessInTO said:


> This might be a dumb question but isn’t Air Canada resuming (or already) flying between Canada and the US? Doesn’t sound like our borders are closed.


I’m sure someone will point out if I’m wrong but I don’t think any Canadian airlines are flying to the US at the moment.  I think they are booking for the very end of june at the earliest.  There are some US flights by US carriers coming in but the Canadian government is wanting to see a 14 day plan for quarantine upon arrival.  
We will wait and see if flights actually do start up again then.


----------



## von Monster

tinkerone said:


> I’m sure someone will point out if I’m wrong but I don’t think any Canadian airlines are flying to the US at the moment.  I think they are booking for the very end of june at the earliest.  There are some US flights by US carriers coming in but the Canadian government is wanting to see a 14 day plan for quarantine upon arrival.
> We will wait and see if flights actually do start up again then.



Not very many, and a lot of codeshares but at least Air Canada is flying there. Here's an Air Canada flight to Kansas City yesterday.

Haven't seen any to MCO this week though, and that's what I'm waiting on.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

The first flight on Air Canada from Halifax is June 21.  Look at those crappy flight times!


----------



## bcwife76

Air Canada is currently operating daily flights out of Vancouver to both San Francisco and Los Angeles. We also have daily flights to Seattle and Dallas but those are on American carriers.


----------



## Chip_Dale

Don't know what we are doing  Flying out of Buffalo beginning September if borders are open. Presently FL has 14 day quarantine for flights out of NY. Might change flight out of Detroit or cancel


----------



## TigerlilyAJ

Hi, dual citizen here. Let's remember what "the border is closed" actually means: No tourism, no travel allowed that a border guard deems to be for fun or "non-essential." But there are plenty of other reasons to cross, hence the Air Canada flights. Also, AC will fly you somewhere, but they don't get to decide whether or not you're allowed into the country to which they take you, U.S. or anywhere else. Not their problem.
Citizens are free to repatriate, so U.S. citizens living in Canada can still drive across the border, and if they're also Canadian citizens, like me, they can drive back across after providing a plan for how they will self-isolate for 14 days.

I wish I could remember where I read it, but someone wrote a piece (for CBC maybe?) about his theory that the border will open in the next six weeks due to a combination of political and economic pressures. Doug Ford has already said that he feels people who own cottages and "pay the majority of property taxes" for certain towns can't be denied access. How long before that logic extends to people from other provinces? Other countries? How many businesses will beg for tourists to be allowed for their vital summer season? If CERB isn't extended, how many people will be desperate for those seasonal jobs?
Who knows if he is right, but discussing the issue in purely public-health perspectives is probably not looking at the bigger picture.


----------



## SleeplessInTO

TigerlilyAJ said:


> Hi, dual citizen here. Let's remember what "the border is closed" actually means: No tourism, no travel allowed that a border guard deems to be for fun or "non-essential." But there are plenty of other reasons to cross, hence the Air Canada flights. Also, AC will fly you somewhere, but they don't get to decide whether or not you're allowed into the country to which they take you, U.S. or anywhere else. Not their problem.
> Citizens are free to repatriate, so U.S. citizens living in Canada can still drive across the border, and if they're also Canadian citizens, like me, they can drive back across after providing a plan for how they will self-isolate for 14 days.
> 
> I wish I could remember where I read it, but someone wrote a piece (for CBC maybe?) about his theory that the border will open in the next six weeks due to a combination of political and economic pressures. Doug Ford has already said that he feels people who own cottages and "pay the majority of property taxes" for certain towns can't be denied access. How long before that logic extends to people from other provinces? Other countries? How many businesses will beg for tourists to be allowed for their vital summer season? If CERB isn't extended, how many people will be desperate for those seasonal jobs?
> Who knows if he is right, but discussing the issue in purely public-health perspectives is probably not looking at the bigger picture.


These are good points. I don’t personally think Trudeau will keep the borders closed beyond the current extension due to political pressure from the US. But with the riots, who knows? Trump may be distracted.

The one quirk of flying out of Pearson (and other airports with pre-clearance) is that if you manage to get through to your plane, you should be okay to enter the US since you don’t go through customs again.


----------



## bcwife76

The PM is busy trying to figure out how to reunite families despite the border being closed, so I have to wonder why would he be taking the time to figure all that out if he intends on opening the border again in three weeks?


----------



## wdwmom3

bcwife76 said:


> The PM is busy trying to figure out how to reunite families despite the border being closed, so I have to wonder why would he be taking the time to figure all that out if he intends on opening the border again in three weeks?



I agree with this.  I think they may allow things like that with mandatory quarantines.  But I don’t think anyone is in a rush to let tourists from the US in.  No way border will be open to tourists this summer without a 14 day quarantine,


----------



## Donald - my hero

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> The first flight on Air Canada from Halifax is June 21.  Look at those crappy flight times!
> 
> View attachment 498087


*I actually had a good chuckle over this! For just shy of $1,000 you can spend 44 HOURS getting to Orlando, seriously?!?! Who would actually pick that ? *


----------



## SirDuff

TigerlilyAJ said:


> Hi, dual citizen here. Let's remember what "the border is closed" actually means: No tourism, no travel allowed that a border guard deems to be for fun or "non-essential." But there are plenty of other reasons to cross, hence the Air Canada flights. *Also, AC will fly you somewhere, but they don't get to decide whether or not you're allowed into the country to which they take you, U.S. or anywhere else. Not their problem.*
> Citizens are free to repatriate, so U.S. citizens living in Canada can still drive across the border, and if they're also Canadian citizens, like me, they can drive back across after providing a plan for how they will self-isolate for 14 days.
> 
> I wish I could remember where I read it, but someone wrote a piece (for CBC maybe?) about his theory that the border will open in the next six weeks due to a combination of political and economic pressures. Doug Ford has already said that he feels people who own cottages and "pay the majority of property taxes" for certain towns can't be denied access. How long before that logic extends to people from other provinces? Other countries? How many businesses will beg for tourists to be allowed for their vital summer season? If CERB isn't extended, how many people will be desperate for those seasonal jobs?
> Who knows if he is right, but discussing the issue in purely public-health perspectives is probably not looking at the bigger picture.



Actually, it is their problem.  Not their decision, but their problem.  If they fly you somewhere and you are not allowed in (in normal times, meaning that you don't have the right passport/visa/documents), they have to fly you back home (and pay a fine).  That's why they check your documentation at check-in/at the gate and post requirements on the website (e.g. Air Canada always has the note about needing an eTA (at least if you're booking your flight from Europe)).  I've not read anywhere that this has been waived for people who are not let in due to Covid-19 rules.


----------



## FigmentSpark

Donald - my hero said:


> *I actually had a good chuckle over this! For just shy of $1,000 you can spend 44 HOURS getting to Orlando, seriously?!?! Who would actually pick that ? *


I wonder if that time in the air counts towards your quarantine time?


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

FigmentSpark said:


> I wonder if that time in the air counts towards your quarantine time?



Coming home you'd only have 12 days left! LOL


----------



## Iralyn

Exclusive: Canada, U. S. set to extend border closure to end-July - sources

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...der-closure-to-end-july-sources-idUSKBN23G301


----------



## bcwife76

Not surprised. When they made the announcement yesterday about letting in immediate family I figured this meant the border would be closed still for travel for at least another month. My trip to the Yukon is looking better and better! lol


----------



## Dawg74

Well, I hope things get better soon, we want to travel south.


----------



## Aug2020distrip

Once that is official we will be cancelling. At least cancelling our condo, since it’s 100% refundable if we cancel by mid July.
If by some miracle things get better and border opens up in August, we can just book a different condo last minute. But it’s not looking very likely.

I wonder how long the 14 day quarantine will last. It’s just very stressful trying to plan another Trip instead without knowing. Maybe will try for March, but then we need to deal with spring break and Easter crowds.


----------



## FinnFogg

Sigh - That doesn’t bode well for our Aug 29-Sept 7 trip to WDW. My hopes were slim before this, but I think this seals the deal. Even if they don’t extend past the end of July, I can’t imagine that they will open without quarantine restrictions (at least to start). Now I think I need to decide what to do about our DVC points. They expire end of Sept, so not sure whether to cancel reservations and deposit the points in RCI, or try to rent the existing reservations to those south of the boarder who can actually use them!


----------



## CJK

The quarantine back into Canada is what makes me think it's time to cancel our September trip. I still have hope that the border will open by then, but I've lost hope about the forced 14 day quarantine. We have to cancel by the end of June in order to get refunded, so I guess we've got a couple weeks to make the final decision.


----------



## Aug2020distrip

Looks like a lot of us are in the same boat


----------



## Frozen2014

+ 1
We were thinking maybe we can make our cruise or WDW after all for end of Aug...but this pretty much loses hope.  If we can't get there, then it ain't happening (or as others say, if 14 day quarantine is required upon return, even if opens Aug)


----------



## Aug2020distrip

Why did I pick a user name based on the date I was going? That wasn’t very smart in retrospect  lol


----------



## Dawg74

Aug2020distrip said:


> Why did I pick a user name based on the date I was going? That wasn’t very smart in retrospect  lol


 None of us could have predicted this, it’s crazy how much the world is disrupted and specifically for us travellers our  travel world.  If you don’t get August I hope you can plan a make up trip even better!!


----------



## bcwife76

Aug2020distrip said:


> Looks like a lot of us are in the same boat


Yup  We've already cancelled our August trip and have until July 14th to cancel our October trip. Sigh.


----------



## CanucksRock

When are they going to let us out! My AP will be extended to October at minimum, so thinking September trip - but will they open the border by then?!? They can’t keep doing this extension stuff off the cuff, I’m so over not being able to plan my life. Yes there is a risk, but the risk is everywhere.  Will WDW refund let us refund later if our country doesn’t let us travel before expiry


----------



## TammyLynn33

Dawg74 said:


> None of us could have predicted this, it’s crazy how much the world is disrupted and specifically for us travellers our  travel world.  If you don’t get August I hope you can plan a make up trip even better!!



Yep not sure I would have bought DVC last Easter had I seen this coming


----------



## Mickey&JoshNut

CanucksRock said:


> When are they going to let us out! My AP will be extended to October at minimum, so thinking September trip - but will they open the border by then?!? They can’t keep doing this extension stuff off the cuff, I’m so over not being able to plan my life. Yes there is a risk, but the risk is everywhere. Will WDW refund let us refund later if our country doesn’t let us travel before expiry



Our APs expire at the end of November.  I am sure if there was a deadline to call to request the refund.  We knew that we would not feel comfortable going to the parks until at least mid 2021, so I called on Monday to request the refund for the period of time the parks are closed and the CM advised that once the decision is made to refund, it cannot be changed.  I asked the CM if the reopening dates recently announced will be the dates that our AP will be extended but she was unaware.  I know for Shanghai DL, they announced that the APs would be extended until the reservation system for park entry was lifted and I hope that is the case for WDW, otherwise our APs were very expensive this year as we have only taken one trip out of the 4 that were planned (March, August & November cancelled).


----------



## wdwmom3

I would plan on the 14 quarantine to last until the end of the year.  I actually hope that’s the case.  Say we get things under control here.  Why would we want to risk someone bringing it in from somewhere else? The quarantine is a way for us to get back to normal even if the US is still having significant cases.


----------



## Best_Vacation_EVER!

There was a story in the Ottawa Citizen that they will be extending the border closing until late July --- although it will likely be extended again.


----------



## pigletto

wdwmom3 said:


> I would plan on the 14 quarantine to last until the end of the year.  I actually hope that’s the case.  Say we get things under control here.  Why would we want to risk someone bringing it in from somewhere else? The quarantine is a way for us to get back to normal even if the US is still having significant cases.


I agree. I hate that it’s necessary but I really do think its for the best.


----------



## CanucksRock

Make people limit what they do and wear a mask. I would love to be able to see my niece - they live in the US, would like to come to Canada; but not if there is a 14 day quarantine. My mom really wants to see her only grandchild. It’s killing her not being able to go there, or them not being able to come here.


----------



## 2Lunds

We just cancelled out Sept trip.  Flying from Canada just about doubles the cost of the vacation, and I just can't justify paying $6K for this weird, stressful experience.  Cases are not going down in the US, I don't see our government opening the border to vacation travel any time soon, it would be totally irresponsible given the numbers.  Figured it was better to just bite the bullet and cancel now while Delta was still offering such a generous cancellation policy (full eCredit, good through Sept 2022).  We'll go next year if we can manage to get the vaccine in time, or it naturally burns out like SARS did.


----------



## FigmentSpark

CanucksRock said:


> Make people limit what they do and wear a mask. I would love to be able to see my niece - they live in the US, would like to come to Canada; but not if there is a 14 day quarantine. My mom really wants to see her only grandchild. It’s killing her not being able to go there, or them not being able to come here.


I thought they were going to make some exceptions for families?


----------



## Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina

FigmentSpark said:


> I thought they were going to make some exceptions for families?



The exception for immediate families is worthless to most of us.  We would be forced to quarantine for 2 weeks on arrival.  So not only do we need someone who can house us for 14 days minimum, but we would also need that much time off work.  It's not practical for those of us with jobs, pets, homes, etc. to be away that long.  Plus, we have more than one immediate family member who we need to see.....in our case, an adult son, and two elderly mothers.  Under the existing guidelines, we still couldn't see them all.


----------



## TammyLynn33

I feel for you I do but I’m also the ex wife of a USA citizen residing back in Canada with the children . 
He has been totally irresponsible with the Pandemic crossing state lines to attend parties etc. and it’s just the flu acc to him .
my current community has zero that’s right zero active cases. If he was to come up and not quarantine he would be possibly exposing our children and my two older children who are both medically high risk . 
So just say he gets my household sick because it’s inconvenient for him to self quarantine for 14 days. So now I’m sick at home with children and unable to work that’s pretty inconvenient for us . Not to mention being sick and risking the kids I’m risking losing my income until we are clear.
Did I mention I work in health care with vulnerable people so I would be off work If he comes for 14 days to ensure I am not carrying the virus and infecting them. 
I feel for you I do.. hopefully something changes soon be it declining or a vaccine or a treatment or something . 



Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina said:


> The exception for immediate families is worthless to most of us.  We would be forced to quarantine for 2 weeks on arrival.  So not only do we need someone who can house us for 14 days minimum, but we would also need that much time off work.  It's not practical for those of us with jobs, pets, homes, etc. to be away that long.  Plus, we have more than one immediate family member who we need to see.....in our case, an adult son, and two elderly mothers.  Under the existing guidelines, we still couldn't see them all.


----------



## Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina

TammyLynn33 said:


> I feel for you I do but I’m also the ex wife of a USA citizen residing back in Canada with the children .
> He has been totally irresponsible with the Pandemic crossing state lines to attend parties etc. and it’s just the flu acc to him .
> my current community has zero that’s right zero active cases. If he was to come up and not quarantine he would be possibly exposing our children and my two older children who are both medically high risk .
> So just say he gets my household sick because it’s inconvenient for him to self quarantine for 14 days. So now I’m sick at home with children and unable to work that’s pretty inconvenient for us . Not to mention being sick and risking the kids I’m risking losing my income until we are clear.
> Did I mention I work in health care with vulnerable people so I would be off work If he comes for 14 days to ensure I am not carrying the virus and infecting them.
> I feel for you I do.. hopefully something changes soon be it declining or a vaccine or a treatment or something .



Please don't paint everyone with the same broad brush.   Your ex husband may be irresponsible about this virus but many of us are not.

Mental health is equally as important as physical health, and this extended separation is taking a crippling toll on many, which is equally as damning as Covid 19.


----------



## tinkerone

Well, unpopular opinion.  I think what has been put in place is very fair.  This virus is showing no sign of leveling off in the USA as it has started to spike again in many states.  All it's going to take is that one husband who is listed above to think that rules _'don't apply to me' _to get it all started again here, in Canada.  There are just to many of those type.  No, this is not everyone but again, all it takes is one and I have seen many more on the news to even think it's just one or two.  And lets keep in mind, this is something that has been agreed upon by both countries, not just Canada.

Right now we are on the right track and it would be nice if it stayed that way.  Yes, we have hot spots however they are being kept to their own areas.  We are doing a good job at keeping this contained and not growing the way it is down south.  Fingers crossed it stays that way but if we open the border to everyone it will not be and we will have to start lockdown all over again.  

There is a solution, do the quarantine.  If you can't or won't I'm really sorry but it's what's helping *our* country stay safe.  If the border stays closed till the end of the year, if that's what needs to happen, I'm down with that.  I'm very sorry for those who are not.


----------



## Aug2020distrip

I should point out that although I’m disappointed, I also realize it’s for the best. I think it’s ok to both be extremely sad about a trip being cancelled But then also knowing that it’s for the best. Don’t want my sadness/frustration about having to cancel due to the border/quarantine make it seem like I just want it to open up ASAP. I know they will end it when it’s safe to.


----------



## isabellea

I agree 100% that the border should be kept closed and when it re-opens, 14-day quarantine should be mandatory. QC has been hit really hard and it all started because we had our Spring break early so people came back infected and they went to visit their elderly parents upon their return. At the time, we didn't know how bad an idea it was but now we do. Our numbers are getting better now (we are finally past the peak) and even now I refuse to see my parents who live 3h away because we are still a 'hot' zone and they are not. I think it would be irresponsible of us to visit my dad who is high-risk and we haven't seen them in person since October (they are snowbirds who went back home directly from FL in March without even stopping to say hi even though we are on the way). It sucks but this is the responsible thing to do.


----------



## stfxkid

While I agree that the earlier spring break played a roll, the reason that Quebec and Ontario’s outbreak was so bad was their criminally horrific Long Term Home conditions.


----------



## isabellea

stfxkid said:


> While I agree that the earlier spring break played a roll, the reason that Quebec and Ontario’s outbreak was so bad was their criminally horrific Long Term Home conditions.



Early Spring break is HOW it started. And then the spread and bad numbers are, I agree, mostly due to how the long term homes were managed. But if the border had closed earlier and if quarantine had been mandatory, we might have avoided some homes to be so badly hit (probably not all but we know that the first ones were infected from travellers coming back from USA and Europe and visiting their family members). Maybe not, but if it doesn't get in, it cannot spread.


----------



## von Monster

isabellea said:


> Early Spring break is HOW it started. And then the spread and bad numbers are, I agree, mostly due to how the long term homes were managed. But if the border had closed earlier and if quarantine had been mandatory, we might have avoided some homes to be so badly hit (probably not all but we know that the first ones were infected from travellers coming back from USA and Europe and visiting their family members). Maybe not, but if it doesn't get in, it cannot spread.



I love how this has made everyone an epidemiologist - just a link showing it was likely spreading back in August, which makes the spread far wider then previously thought. Add that with the large number of asymptomatic cases and the majority of people who do get sick presenting mild cases and you get where we are now.

Would have closing the borders earlier slowed the spread - *maybe? *I doubt anyone will ever really know, and if they do they won't be posting about it here. Like everything in life it's just best guesses and hindsight in the end.


----------



## Aug2020distrip

I do keep watching the WestJet website though. I feel they had a warning about the border last time because they cancelled all their flights basically until June 21 or so.
So far, all flights showing from here to Orlando For July every day, but if they all of a sudden cancel all those then it will be a bit of a heads up about the border I think.


----------



## bcwife76

Aug2020distrip said:


> I do keep watching the WestJet website though. I feel they had a warning about the border last time because they cancelled all their flights basically until June 21 or so.
> So far, all flights showing from here to Orlando For July every day, but if they all of a sudden cancel all those then it will be a bit of a heads up about the border I think.


Agree. Last month WJ extended their flight suspensions about 5 days before the 'official' word came down from the PM. So I'm watching WJ too. So far my end of August Orlando flights are still 'a go' eventhough we are not going lol I'm just waiting til closer to our flight date to cancel so as to extend our 24 month credit ;-)


----------



## Aug2020distrip

Oooh, good to know about the credit! I thought the countdown started from day of booking (which for me was March 2020). Good to know when/if I cancel my August trip it will be effective my cancellation date! I mean I would hope we end up going long before the expiry but good to know in case


----------



## isabellea

von Monster said:


> I love how this has made everyone an epidemiologist - just a link showing it was likely spreading back in August, which makes the spread far wider then previously thought. Add that with the large number of asymptomatic cases and the majority of people who do get sick presenting mild cases and you get where we are now.
> 
> Would have closing the borders earlier slowed the spread - *maybe? *I doubt anyone will ever really know, and if they do they won't be posting about it here. Like everything in life it's just best guesses and hindsight in the end.



While I'm not a trained epidemiologist, I am a biologist (a geneticist to be exact) so I can read scientific papers (btw, CNN is not) and our first confirmed cases in CHSLDs (long term care homes) have been traced back to travellers coming back by our provincial public health epidemiologists. I was basically quoting our public health director on how the crisis started in QC CHSLDs. Not inventing anything. Was the virus around earlier than we initially thought in China, maybe but until we have peer-reviewed serious papers on the matter, we don't know and back in August (or even early February), people were not getting admitted to the ICU in big numbers with COVID-like symptoms and our long-term facilities were not having extra deaths compared to previous years here. 

I had to cancel our big 20th anniversary trip in August because of the pandemic so I understand that it sucks that we cannot travel. On that, I wrote what I had to say and won't continue defending my opinion because some people don't want to quarantine after they return from traveling to a country (USA) that basically abandoned the idea of flattening the curve in many states and where they don't test enough to have a 'true' picture of the situation.


----------



## tinkerone

stfxkid said:


> While I agree that the earlier spring break played a roll, the reason that Quebec and Ontario’s outbreak was so bad was their criminally horrific Long Term Home conditions.


Oh, I don't think I would agree with that.  There certainly have been some care homes that have had large numbers of cases you can't blanket it.  The news only reports on the bad.  We have five long term care homes in my city and only one had cases.  They were quickly isolated and our city, at the moment, have no cases.  I would like to keep it that way.
So no, I would not agree that the reason Quebec and Ontario's outbreak was so bad was because of horrific long term home conditions.  There was way more to it than being that simplistic.


----------



## stfxkid

tinkerone said:


> Oh, I don't think I would agree with that.  There certainly have been some care homes that have had large numbers of cases you can't blanket it.  The news only reports on the bad.  We have five long term care homes in my city and only one had cases.  They were quickly isolated and our city, at the moment, have no cases.  I would like to keep it that way.
> So no, I would not agree that the reason Quebec and Ontario's outbreak was so bad was because of horrific long term home conditions.  There was way more to it than being that simplistic.


Were they private or public long term care homes. Because the public care home have fared much better.


----------



## tinkerone

von Monster said:


> I love how this has made everyone an epidemiologist - just a link showing it was likely spreading back in August, which makes the spread far wider then previously thought. Add that with the large number of asymptomatic cases and the majority of people who do get sick presenting mild cases and you get where we are now.
> 
> Would have closing the borders earlier slowed the spread - *maybe? *I doubt anyone will ever really know, and if they do they won't be posting about it here. Like everything in life it's just best guesses and hindsight in the end.


You do understand that this is based on images of parking lots and internet searches?  Not very scientific.  I would not use this as a basis of assumption but others can if they so choose.


----------



## tinkerone

stfxkid said:


> Were they private or public long term care homes. Because the public care home have fared much better.


Two public and three private.  It was a public one that had the few cases but as I mentioned they have been cleared.  Fingers crossed it stays that way.


----------



## bcwife76

Aug2020distrip said:


> Oooh, good to know about the credit! I thought the countdown started from day of booking (which for me was March 2020). Good to know when/if I cancel my August trip it will be effective my cancellation date! I mean I would hope we end up going long before the expiry but good to know in case


Yes the date for your credits start on tbe day you cancel, not the date of original purchase


----------



## pigletto

von Monster said:


> I love how this has made everyone an epidemiologist - just a link showing it was likely spreading back in August, which makes the spread far wider then previously thought. Add that with the large number of asymptomatic cases and the majority of people who do get sick presenting mild cases and you get where we are now.
> 
> Would have closing the borders earlier slowed the spread - *maybe? *I doubt anyone will ever really know, and if they do they won't be posting about it here. Like everything in life it's just best guesses and hindsight in the end.


Its a shame my mom had to drop out her clinical epidemiology program about halfway through when she contracted breast cancer at 49. She has a college nursing diploma however , and a bachelor of nursing, and her nurse practitioner , and finally a PHD in nursing that she earned at 57. My brother went to med school, and is a psychiatrist , and my brother in law is a neurosurgeon. Two sister in laws who are nurses.  I hope that satisfies your criteria for who can have an opinion. I’m pretty confident with the advice I’m getting .

My younger sister is living in Florida and having her first child next month and none of us can see her and vice versa. It sucks but we accept it. I know it’s hard but it’s a public health measure protecting more than just our family and I don’t see an alternative.


We hate that my very pregnant sister can‘t come home and we can’t go see her before she has her first baby. Its extremely hard on her and I’m sure it’s hard on my parents ...and who even knows when we will get a chance to see that baby?  Its hard but I fail to see how it’s unfair. It’s a public health measure that applies to us all.


----------



## SirDuff

von Monster said:


> I love how this has made everyone an epidemiologist - just a link showing it was likely spreading back in August, which makes the spread far wider then previously thought. Add that with the large number of asymptomatic cases and the majority of people who do get sick presenting mild cases and you get where we are now.
> 
> Would have closing the borders earlier slowed the spread - *maybe? *I doubt anyone will ever really know, and if they do they won't be posting about it here. Like everything in life it's just best guesses and hindsight in the end.



This hasn't made me an epidemiologist - my PhD did that.  You take one media report of one non-reviewed study where even the authors admit that, even if their observations and results are correct, it doesn't mean that the virus was already active and you conclude that "it was likely spreading back in August".  I'm assuming that you aren't an epidemiologist or any related field.  That is seriously shaky evidence.  It may prove to be true, but until there is a lot more evidence, I'm not at all convinced.

In terms of the border - I, like others, understand even if I don't like it.  I'm a Canadian living abroad, so this makes it hard (but not impossible) to visit my family in Canada (and impossible to visit the ones that live in the US).  Though I realise that my issue is not the US/Canada border issue which is the one under discussion here; my issue is the rules for those coming in from Europe (which, for Canada, means 14-day quarantine on arrival for Canadian citizens).


----------



## FinnFogg

Aug2020distrip said:


> I do keep watching the WestJet website though. I feel they had a warning about the border last time because they cancelled all their flights basically until June 21 or so.
> So far, all flights showing from here to Orlando For July every day, but if they all of a sudden cancel all those then it will be a bit of a heads up about the border I think.


Good idea!  I hadn’t thought of that. I expect they will cancel, but now I will be watching as well!


----------



## SleeplessInTO

Just an FYI for those booked with WestJet: I don’t know your facts but there’s a chance for a refund instead of credit

https://www.ctvnews.ca/business/westjet-to-offer-refunds-to-some-customers-1.4971416


----------



## wdwmom3

Gina-Gina-Bo-Bina said:


> Please don't paint everyone with the same broad brush.   Your ex husband may be irresponsible about this virus but many of us are not.
> 
> Mental health is equally as important as physical health, and this extended separation is taking a crippling toll on many, which is equally as damning as Covid 19.


 I understand your frustration.  But the 14 quarantine is necessary to keep people coming into Canada to possible infecting others.  Huge amounts of our cases at the beginning of this are directly related to people who travelled and did not quarantine.   They have offered a solution to those who have immediate family and have been separated, while taking steps to keep Canadians safe.  You have a choice, find a way to follow those rules, which are reasonable or don’t come.  You can get an Airbnb for a few weeks and visit everyone after your quarantine.  

I don’t think many Canadians would agree with opening up the risk of importing new cases just because what has been proposed doesn’t “work” for some people.


----------



## bcwife76

SleeplessInTO said:


> Just an FYI for those booked with WestJet: I don’t know your facts but there’s a chance for a refund instead of credit
> 
> https://www.ctvnews.ca/business/westjet-to-offer-refunds-to-some-customers-1.4971416


Right now this refund only applies to flights booked to fly by early April. They should really extend that....


----------



## Sue M

bcwife76 said:


> Yes the date for your credits start on tbe day you cancel, not the date of original purchase


I though credit was based on date of flight ?


----------



## bcwife76

Sue M said:


> I though credit was based on date of flight ?


I found this from the WJ website:

"Travel Bank credits from changed or cancelled flights can be used to pay for flights up to 24 months from the date your flight was cancelled. "

So I take that to mean if I cancel my August 22nd flight to Orlando on say, August 15th - the credit expires on August 15th 2022, not August 22 2022. However, if WJ cancels before I do then obvs the credit would expire the day they cancel (if they cancel on say July 29th, then the credit would expire July 29 2022).

You can also buy a 2 year extention for about $20 so the credit is good for 48 months if you think of it that way.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

I will just leave this article here:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/u-s-travel-restrictions-covid-19-land-border-fly-1.5607741
So many posters are inquiring or confused to whether they can cross or not.


----------



## AngelDisney

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> I will just leave this article here:
> 
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/u-s-travel-restrictions-covid-19-land-border-fly-1.5607741
> So many posters are inquiring or confused to whether they can cross or not.


Thanks for the link! It’s helpful to stay informed of the travel conditions/restrictions.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

I received a reply from BMO's travel insurance carrier, Allianz Global. Here is their reply on coverage for COVID-19:

Dear _________,

Thank-you for contacting Allianz Global Assistance.

We have reviewed your e-mail and at this current time there is no exclusions with regards to pandemics within the BMO Air Miles World Elite MasterCard.

However, there are exclusions and stipulations with regards to travel advisories that should be considered when planning future travel.

Medical Exclusions:     

The insurance does not cover, provide services or pay claims resulting from:

Your travel to a country for which the Canadian government has issued a Travel Advisory in writing prior to Your Departure Date.
For trip cancellation benefits to apply with respects to COVID 19:

A Travel Advisory needs to be issued by the Canadian Government for tour ticketed destination *after* you book Your Trip. Therefore if you were to purchase a trip now but later decide to cancel due to COVID19 it would not be eligible for you to claim for the expenses. This is due to the fact that as posted on https://travel.gc.ca/, there is a worldwide travel advisory.
The current posted advisory is as follows:

"Official travel advisories are in effect: Avoid non-essential travel outside Canada and avoid all travel on cruise ships until further notice."
Should you have any further questions or concerns do not hesitate to contact our offices directly. We are available 24 hours 7 days a week at 1-877-704-0341 within North America or by collect call to 519-741-0782.

*Note: Please be advised that any benefits addressed in this email are pending verification of coverage and the full terms and conditions of your insurance policy.*

Looks like I would be fully insured for our December trip since we did book our trip on January 3, 2020, way before this all started.   Good to know that the only stipulation is the Travel Advisory. Once that is lifted, regardless of COVID-19, looks like cardholders would have full coverage. Although I think the advisory will be in place until a vaccine is produced.


----------



## CanucksRock

I saw that loophole article today...which good to know since I booked trip to Orlando in September  Now thinking, hmm if we can get a reservation maybe take an earlier trip too... (I work from home; so 14 day quarantine not an issue)


----------



## ottawamom

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> I will just leave this article here:
> 
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/u-s-travel-restrictions-covid-19-land-border-fly-1.5607741
> So many posters are inquiring or confused to whether they can cross or not.


That is just bizarre. Good to know but bizarre. The thing about travelling to the US, do you really want to go there given all that is going on.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

ottawamom said:


> That is just bizarre. Good to know but bizarre. The thing about travelling to the US, do you really want to go there given all that is going on.



And then isolate for 14 days when home?


----------



## wdwmom3

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> And then isolate for 14 days when home?



Also be stuck there with no insurance coverage,  if they won’t let you on the plane home if someone has a cough or fever.


----------



## PetePanMan

My prediction is that they will extend through August As a minimum to reduce summer vacation travel ( with kids back to school)


----------



## ottawamom

Lets face it "We the north" better just get used to our winter holidays in the cold and snow. We're not getting south of the "49th parallel" any time soon.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

I guess I better learn how to ski LOL


----------



## tinkerone

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> I received a reply from BMO's travel insurance carrier, Allianz Global. Here is their reply on coverage for COVID-19:
> 
> Dear _________,
> 
> Thank-you for contacting Allianz Global Assistance.
> 
> We have reviewed your e-mail and at this current time there is no exclusions with regards to pandemics within the BMO Air Miles World Elite MasterCard.
> 
> However, there are exclusions and stipulations with regards to travel advisories that should be considered when planning future travel.
> 
> Medical Exclusions:
> 
> The insurance does not cover, provide services or pay claims resulting from:
> 
> Your travel to a country for which the Canadian government has issued a Travel Advisory in writing prior to Your Departure Date.
> For trip cancellation benefits to apply with respects to COVID 19:
> 
> A Travel Advisory needs to be issued by the Canadian Government for tour ticketed destination *after* you book Your Trip. Therefore if you were to purchase a trip now but later decide to cancel due to COVID19 it would not be eligible for you to claim for the expenses. This is due to the fact that as posted on https://travel.gc.ca/, there is a worldwide travel advisory.
> The current posted advisory is as follows:
> 
> "Official travel advisories are in effect: Avoid non-essential travel outside Canada and avoid all travel on cruise ships until further notice."
> Should you have any further questions or concerns do not hesitate to contact our offices directly. We are available 24 hours 7 days a week at 1-877-704-0341 within North America or by collect call to 519-741-0782.
> 
> *Note: Please be advised that any benefits addressed in this email are pending verification of coverage and the full terms and conditions of your insurance policy.*
> 
> Looks like I would be fully insured for our December trip since we did book our trip on January 3, 2020, way before this all started.   Good to know that the only stipulation is the Travel Advisory. Once that is lifted, regardless of COVID-19, looks like cardholders would have full coverage. Although I think the advisory will be in place until a vaccine is produced.


Thank you!  I had not thought about using my MC insurance.  We managed to change our cruise dates with no fees and AM's assures us that we will have no issues with refunding of those flights however we have flights from T.O. to Ft Lauderdale that AirTransit told me were non refundable and no changes.  I figured we were just out the $900 but I just called the 800 number you listed above and they feel I will get that money back through them.  Looks like I may have a bit of paper work to do but no biggie, nothing better to do right now anyways.
Again, thanks!


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

That's amazing news @tinkerone !


----------



## grantclaire

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> I guess I better learn how to ski LOL





ottawamom said:


> Lets face it "We the north" better just get used to our winter holidays in the cold and snow. We're not getting south of the "49th parallel" any time soon.


I was wondering where the warmest place in Canada is in March, Windsor ON or Victoria BC?


----------



## MamaLema

[


ottawamom said:


> That is just bizarre. Good to know but bizarre. The thing about travelling to the US, do you really want to go there given all that is going on.



To tell you the truth, I am pretty turned off to going to the States anytime soon and even into the future. We always go at least twice a year to different US cities.
I’ve been looking into a lot of other countries instead.


----------



## bababear_50

grantclaire said:


> I was wondering where the warmest place in Canada is in March, Windsor ON or Victoria BC?



Curious minds have been researching this
https://www.planetware.com/canada/warmest-places-in-canada-in-winter-for-travelers-cdn-1-223.htm
Hugs
Mel


----------



## Kaadk

ottawamom said:


> Lets face it "We the north" better just get used to our winter holidays in the cold and snow. We're not getting south of the "49th parallel" any time soon.


Sure you can.  I'm near the 42nd parallel here, and still in Canada.  Most people think Canada = North, and are shocked when I pull out the maps to show about a 1/3 of the States, and dang near almost all of Europe is actually farther north than here.



grantclaire said:


> I was wondering where the warmest place in Canada is in March, Windsor ON or Victoria BC?


Here in Windsor I wouldn't call it the 'warmest' place, but we do on occasion have some pretty mild Marches.  I've know families (in past years, not this year) that have gone south to Florida for march break, and it was warmer here than it was there.  Problem is it's unpredicatable.  I've seen it swing from near room temp to below freezing to back near room temp around here in those months.  I'm now really glad that thermostats have gotten smarter, because we've had to run the heat at night and the AC during the day sometimes.

I haven't been there, but from all reports though, despite it possibly being really nice here, BC's probably your safer bet.



bababear_50 said:


> Curious minds have been researching this
> https://www.planetware.com/canada/warmest-places-in-canada-in-winter-for-travelers-cdn-1-223.htm
> Hugs
> Mel



I'm disappointed Windsor didn't make the list.  We're definitely way warmer here than in Toronto.  The 'snow belt' is essentially north of London.  Around here, it might get cold in the thick of winter, but it rarely gets really nasty.


----------



## Jrb1979

Kaadk said:


> Sure you can.  I'm near the 42nd parallel here, and still in Canada.  Most people think Canada = North, and are shocked when I pull out the maps to show about a 1/3 of the States, and dang near almost all of Europe is actually farther north than here.
> 
> 
> Here in Windsor I wouldn't call it the 'warmest' place, but we do on occasion have some pretty mild Marches.  I've know families (in past years, not this year) that have gone south to Florida for march break, and it was warmer here than it was there.  Problem is it's unpredicatable.  I've seen it swing from near room temp to below freezing to back near room temp around here in those months.  I'm now really glad that thermostats have gotten smarter, because we've had to run the heat at night and the AC during the day sometimes.
> 
> I haven't been there, but from all reports though, despite it possibly being really nice here, BC's probably your safer bet.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm disappointed Windsor didn't make the list.  We're definitely way warmer here than in Toronto.  The 'snow belt' is essentially north of London.  Around here, it might get cold in the thick of winter, but it rarely gets really nasty.


I love Windsor just for the sole reason it's only a 2 hour drive to the best theme park.


----------



## ottawamom

Kaadk said:


> Sure you can.  I'm near the 42nd parallel here, and still in Canada.  Most people think Canada = North, and are shocked when I pull out the maps to show about a 1/3 of the States, and dang near almost all of Europe is actually farther north than here.


My reference to "49th parallel" (in quotes) was instead of saying the "border". I am well aware that parts of southern Ontario are further south than northern parts of California but thanks for mentioning that for those who didn't know.


----------



## Kaadk

ottawamom said:


> My reference to "49th parallel" (in quotes) was instead of saying the "border". I am well aware that parts of southern Ontario are further south than northern parts of California but thanks for mentioning that for those who didn't know.


Opps, sorry, missed the quotes reference, and your location.  Of course in Ottawa you're aware of parts of Canada being south of the 49, you're south of the 49 there. 

Working with international teams, I get misconceptions about Canada all the time.  One that really stuck with me though wasn't work related, it was when we were at an RV Rally in Goshen, IN.  I was talking to one couple, and they were amazed that we would come "all the way from Canada" to get there.  They had apparently taken 3 days to get there from Texas, and wanted to know how long it took us.... We were there in about 4 hours.  It's only 337 Kms between our house and the fairgrounds.


----------



## Aladora

grantclaire said:


> I was wondering where the warmest place in Canada is in March, Windsor ON or Victoria BC?



Without looking at the link, I can put my vote in for Victoria, BC! I grew up in Ottawa and moved here to Victoria in 1992, best decision of my life. Lots of wonderful things to do here, especially if you like getting outdoors.


----------



## grantclaire

Aladora said:


> Without looking at the link, I can put my vote in for Victoria, BC! I grew up in Ottawa and moved here to Victoria in 1992, best decision of my life. Lots of wonderful things to do here, especially if you like getting outdoors.


I was thinking Victoria.  A few years ago the temps in Orlando dropped during  March break, we were at the Canada  Pavilion  waiting to see the film and the hostess  was from Victoria and told the crowd that it was 10 degrees  warmer back home in BC!


----------



## Jrb1979

Just announced that the border closure has been extended til July 21st. I imagine they will keep extending it til the U.S. gets their cases more under control.


----------



## Pumpkin1172

Seems some Americans have figured out a " loop hole " and came into Banff to vacation without any quarantine time.  People there were quite upset over this.  They said at the boarder that they were going to Alaska...but hence they were not.    So disappointing that they would do that. Especially given how quick out governments were to act and shut down to flatten the curve....and we Canadians did our part and stayed home. I'm frustrated and angered by their irresponsible actions    just for them to get a holiday.  While us Canadians are rethinking our vacations south and how we don't want to bring the virus back here while their numbers are sooo quickly rising.  

Just when we thought we might be able to go into Banff and spend some time without fighting the many many busloads of tourists and all those who choose to drive.  

https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/the-cana...are-still-coming-through-here-s-how-1.4980589


----------



## blizzard

My understanding of how they are enforcing it, is for land crossings only.  It sounds like no one is stopping you from flying to the U.S., and if you are a citizen, they can’t stop you from returning.  You are still subject to 14 day quarantine upon return.

Westjet just announced they will be flying to LA, Vegas, Atlanta, Orlando, and New York beginning at the end of June.


----------



## Jrb1979

blizzard said:


> My understanding of how they are enforcing it, is for land crossings only.  It sounds like no one is stopping you from flying to the U.S., and if you are a citizen, they can’t stop you from returning.  You are still subject to 14 day quarantine upon return.
> 
> Westjet just announced they will be flying to LA, Vegas, Atlanta, Orlando, and New York beginning at the end of June.


They are being very strict upon entry into Canada. They will checkup on you to make sure you are in quarantine and if not you can be fined $750,000 for not complying. In mind it really isn't worth the hassle to travel outside of Canada for the time being.


----------



## blizzard

Jrb1979 said:


> They are being very strict upon entry into Canada. They will checkup on you to make sure you are in quarantine and if not you can be fined $750,000 for not complying. In mind it really isn't worth the hassle to travel outside of Canada for the time being.


Depends.  If you can work from home, it’s not too bad.  I know someone who was allowed to travel throughout, and served about 3 quarantines as he went back and forth.  He just worked from home while in Canada.  (Grocery delivery, no visitors)


----------



## luvdiz2

I heard late July for opening the border.  The question is how long quarantine will be coming home and will we be able to get health insurance?


----------



## Jrb1979

luvdiz2 said:


> I heard late July for opening the border.  The question is how long quarantine will be coming home and will we be able to get health insurance?


I fully expect the quarantine to last til a vaccine or better treatment comes available. My work insurance will cover Covid-19 for me but not sure about other companies.


----------



## Frozen2014

luvdiz2 said:


> I heard late July for opening the border.  The question is how long quarantine will be coming home and will we be able to get health insurance?


Any word on Canadian Passport offices?


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Frozen2014 said:


> Any word on Canadian Passport offices?



I'm guessing they would re-open once the border does.


----------



## Reepicheep

Well, the US/Canada border closure has been officially extended to July 21.  Out of stubbornness, I haven't cancelled my Aug 1-15 resort reservations at Disney World, but at this point I'll be surprised if the border opens before fall, and probably not even then.

I saw a headline a couple of days ago saying that Covid19 cases in both California and Florida are on the rise, so deep down I know that I won't be taking a trip to either Disney World or Disneyland this year.  Heck, I can't even get a Disney fix by going to one of the Edmonton Disney stores, since both are still closed.

OK, I'll end my "First World problem" rant now...


----------



## 2Lunds

Reepicheep said:


> Well, the US/Canada border closure has been officially extended to July 21.  Out of stubbornness, I haven't cancelled my Aug 1-15 resort reservations at Disney World, but at this point I'll be surprised if the border opens before fall, and probably not even then.
> 
> I saw a headline a couple of days ago saying that Covid19 cases in both California and Florida are on the rise, so deep down I know that I won't be taking a trip to either Disney World or Disneyland this year.  Heck, I can't even get a Disney fix by going to one of the Edmonton Disney stores, since both are still closed.
> 
> OK, I'll end my "First World problem" rant now...



Hey, everything on this Board is a "First World Problem" after all   This is our safe place to commiserate!


----------



## ottawamom

Hey don't feel bad, I still haven't gotten over my April 2020 trip I had to cancel. I have a reservation for November but that one won't happen either. I'm just holding onto it hoping for a discount of some sort from Disney. (I know I'm dreaming...)


----------



## nicmc1986

Reepicheep said:


> Well, the US/Canada border closure has been officially extended to July 21.  Out of stubbornness, I haven't cancelled my Aug 1-15 resort reservations at Disney World, but at this point I'll be surprised if the border opens before fall, and probably not even then.
> 
> I saw a headline a couple of days ago saying that Covid19 cases in both California and Florida are on the rise, so deep down I know that I won't be taking a trip to either Disney World or Disneyland this year.  Heck, I can't even get a Disney fix by going to one of the Edmonton Disney stores, since both are still closed.
> 
> OK, I'll end my "First World problem" rant now...



We have a DVC reservation for September and it's not looking to great. We're holding out until the next border announcement until we cancel. The cases in Florida are going up but remember their population is significantly more than Ontario. We're prepared to wear masks and sanitize everything but it's the 14 day isolation that is killing us. We can't afford to take an additional 14 days after our vacation (work would not approve) ... 'first world problems' but we miss the magic!


----------



## wdwmom3

nicmc1986 said:


> We have a DVC reservation for September and it's not looking to great. We're holding out until the next border announcement until we cancel. The cases in Florida are going up but remember their population is significantly more than Ontario. We're prepared to wear masks and sanitize everything but it's the 14 day isolation that is killing us. We can't afford to take an additional 14 days after our vacation (work would not approve) ... 'first world problems' but we miss the magic!



I’ve heard that argument about the population of Florida being higher etc. That would only explain them having more cases then us.  But the thing you need to pay attention to is cases are going up, not decreasing or staying flat.  This means that it’s getting worse, that the virus is spreading instead of being contained.


----------



## Jrb1979

wdwmom3 said:


> I’ve heard that argument about the population of Florida being higher etc. That would only explain them having more cases then us.  But the thing you need to pay attention to is cases are going up, not decreasing or staying flat.  This means that it’s getting worse, that the virus is spreading instead of being contained.


Look at Ontario. May not be the same population but our numbers with more testing has declined and holding steady below 200 for the past week. That's a huge difference.


----------



## wdwmom3

Jrb1979 said:


> Look at Ontario. May not be the same population but our numbers with more testing has declined and holding steady below 200 for the past week. That's a huge difference.



 Yep. I suspect if the hospitalization rate isn’t already starting to increase in Florida it will soon.  Texas has reported a big jump in the number of people in hospital.


----------



## bcwife76

I have a friend who lives in the Orlando area, she is a nurse (on the maternity ward, not dealing with Covid patients per se), she has two kids, one of whom has diabetes and the other has asthma and she is happily reporting their schools will return to FULL time in August    Seriously?


----------



## hdrolfe

I believe Quebec plans for pretty much full time school in the fall. I read they are going to do "pods" for the kids, so they will have a group of 6 kids they can socialize with, but the rest they have to stay away from. All I can say is, I hope the 6 kids like each other. My kid is rather particular about who he will sit beside or do things with in school and I can't imagine the horror if he got put with a group of girls (or the one boy who he constantly fights with). With the principal and resource teacher leaving the school, I'm not sure who would be there to ensure a proper grouping. But that's Quebec, and I bet Ontario will have a different plan. Hopefully we find out next week!

As for the border, I agree with most that it is probably safer, but it is unfortunate for those with family on the opposite side. Yes they can cross, but with isolation mandatory on arrival, I am sure it's hard for them to make the visits.


----------



## pigletto

This is an interesting article and certainly worth a read. I personally find the fired scientists claims credible, and it makes me wonder how many places are massaging numbers in order to open their economy.  

https://www.npr.org/2020/06/14/876584284/fired-florida-data-scientist-launches-a-coronavirus-dashboard-of-her-own


----------



## Sue M

Reepicheep said:


> Well, the US/Canada border closure has been officially extended to July 21.  Out of stubbornness, I haven't cancelled my Aug 1-15 resort reservations at Disney World, but at this point I'll be surprised if the border opens before fall, and probably not even then.
> 
> I saw a headline a couple of days ago saying that Covid19 cases in both California and Florida are on the rise, so deep down I know that I won't be taking a trip to either Disney World or Disneyland this year.  Heck, I can't even get a Disney fix by going to one of the Edmonton Disney stores, since both are still closed.
> 
> OK, I'll end my "First World problem" rant now...


I’m in the same boat, Aug 2-15 reservation. Haven’t canceled yet.  They keep extending border closures, at least this time they didn’t make us wait till June 21 to hear about extension. But they’ll probably extend July 21 closure too. 
If we have a 2 week quarantine coming home that’s a deal breaker for us too. Dd can’t take 4 weeks off work for a 2 week vacay. 
We have the Canadian tickets, and flights booked too. So won’t loose anything more if we cancel now vs canceling a week before Vacay.


----------



## 22Tink

Reepicheep said:


> Well, the US/Canada border closure has been officially extended to July 21.  Out of stubbornness, I haven't cancelled my Aug 1-15 resort reservations at Disney World, but at this point I'll be surprised if the border opens before fall, and probably not even then.
> 
> I saw a headline a couple of days ago saying that Covid19 cases in both California and Florida are on the rise, so deep down I know that I won't be taking a trip to either Disney World or Disneyland this year.  Heck, I can't even get a Disney fix by going to one of the Edmonton Disney stores, since both are still closed.
> 
> OK, I'll end my "First World problem" rant now...


I hear you! We originally had August 5-15 booked for San Diego and Disneyland.  With staff shortages at my work and the 14 day quarantine it looks like we won’t be going. I’ve cancelled the hotel but am hanging onto the tickets and flights “just in case” even though I know “just in case” isn’t happening. It just all makes me so sad


----------



## badiggio

pigletto said:


> This is an interesting article and certainly worth a read. I personally find the fired scientists claims credible, and it makes me wonder how many places are massaging numbers in order to open their economy.
> 
> https://www.npr.org/2020/06/14/876584284/fired-florida-data-scientist-launches-a-coronavirus-dashboard-of-her-own


I agree.I think it's happening everywhere,but especially in the U.S. JMO


----------



## Jrb1979

badiggio said:


> I agree.I think it's happening everywhere,but especially in the U.S. JMO


I don't think we really are doing that here. As a country we have been very cautious in opening things. I for one love how Ontario has been handling this.


----------



## alohamom

ottawamom said:


> Hey don't feel bad, I still haven't gotten over my April 2020 trip I had to cancel. I have a reservation for November but that one won't happen either. I'm just holding onto it hoping for a discount of some sort from Disney. (I know I'm dreaming...)



Idk, I was just reading over on the Aulani section that people who were forced to cancel due to the COVID closure are now getting a 35% discount when they rebook AND ask for a discount. I don't know if this is true for everyone and if length of stay plays a part in it but it might be worth asking


----------



## Reepicheep

I just checked out the CNN website, and the headline reads as follows:

*FLORIDA COULD BE THE NEXT COVID-19 EPICENTER*

The accompanying article contains little in the way of positive news.

For the past couple of days I've been wearing a mask for short periods (say, while in a store shopping), and I find it very unpleasant.  I can't imagine wearing a mask for hours on end in the Florida heat and humidity.  For now, I'm going to hang on to my early August resort reservations, in the hope that when Disney (in all probability) cancels my reservations, they'll give me some sort of offer that I can carry forward to my next trip, likely in August 2021.  

My backup plan for the summer is taking a one week trip to Disneyland during the last week in August, but that looks increasingly unlikely as well.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

alohamom said:


> Idk, I was just reading over on the Aulani section that people who were forced to cancel due to the COVID closure are now getting a 35% discount when they rebook AND ask for a discount.



I know WDW was giving the 35% discount for those who booked the dining package, which are all now cancelled.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

@Reepicheep Take everything from CNN with a grain of salt. They are VERY anti-Trump (Republicans) and do nothing but rip apart any state that is "red".  Have you ever watched Prime Time with Cuomo?  It's hilarious.


----------



## Jrb1979

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> @Reepicheep Take everything from CNN with a grain of salt. They are VERY anti-Trump (Republicans) and do nothing but rip apart any state that is "red".  Have you ever watched Prime Time with Cuomo?  It's hilarious.


Regardless of what CNN says, cases are rising in Florida and it's not a good thing.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

@Jrb1979 yes, I know that. I was just saying that CNN is/can be very biased in their reporting.


----------



## wdwmom3

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> @Reepicheep Take everything from CNN with a grain of salt. They are VERY anti-Trump (Republicans) and do nothing but rip apart any state that is "red".  Have you ever watched Prime Time with Cuomo?  It's hilarious.



Yes they are very anti trump.  But if you look at the numbers yourself and how many in the state just don’t seem to be taking it very seriously it’s not a far fetched comment.  Just yesterday there was an article of 16 friends in Florida who went to a bar, people eating and drinking with no distancing, and all 16 have now tested positive.  With numbers increasing AND people not taking things like distancing seriously it’s really not hard to guess what’s going to happen.


----------



## Pumpkin1172

Reepicheep said:


> OK, I'll end my "First World problem" rant now...



I  can relate.  Is it the end of the world...nope...not one bit with all the craziness going on around us.  Can I be disappointed about not being able to travel...yes!

We were planning on doing 2 trips this year.  We wanted to go to a Nascar race to see the dh favorite driver who is retiring this year...and do a winter getaway in the middle of the lovely -40 winters we have.  And with #'s rising in the US, we just don't feel safe to go...and even if we decided to go...having to quarantine when we get home will stop us from making a trip anywhere south.  I'm extremely bummed.  

To anyone having to cancel trips...I feel your pain and disappointment.  All we can do is sit tight, hopefully find some places to travel to locally, and cross our fingers that by this time next year, that we will be able to travel anywhere again!


----------



## bankr63

wdwmom3 said:


> Yes they are very anti trump.  But if you look at the numbers yourself and how many in the state just don’t seem to be taking it very seriously it’s not a far fetched comment.  Just yesterday there was an article of 16 friends in Florida who went to a bar, people eating and drinking with no distancing, and all 16 have now tested positive.  With numbers increasing AND people not taking things like distancing seriously it’s really not hard to guess what’s going to happen.


Yikes!  Didn't read the article, but thought I would look for myself. Just pulled up Florida on the John's Hopkins site https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/us-map
Does anyone see an issue with the direction this line of "Confirmed Cases" in Florida is going? (screen capture 1:45pm 2020-06-18)


----------



## Jrb1979

bankr63 said:


> Yikes!  Didn't read the article, but thought I would look for myself. Just pulled up Florida on the John's Hopkins site https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/us-map
> Does anyone see an issue with the direction this line of "Confirmed Cases" in Florida is going? (screen capture 1:45pm 2020-06-18)
> View attachment 502008


Apparently not in Florida or the by the Govenor. They just chalk it up to more testing. All I know is seeing numbers rise in many U.S. states us Canadians better be prepared for staycations for a long while. Wonderland might have to your theme park fix for the next year.


----------



## wdwmom3

bankr63 said:


> Yikes!  Didn't read the article, but thought I would look for myself. Just pulled up Florida on the John's Hopkins site https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/us-map
> Does anyone see an issue with the direction this line of "Confirmed Cases" in Florida is going? (screen capture 1:45pm 2020-06-18)
> View attachment 502008



it’s actually kind of crazy.  And for the record it was CNN that made to comment the Florida could be the next epicentre.  it was a research group at some hospital that said that.


----------



## Reepicheep

Jrb1979 said:


> ...Canadians better be prepared for staycations for a long while.



Seeing @ottawamom's handle reminded me of a very pleasant one week July trip I took to Ottawa many years ago.  The trip was so pleasant that a year later I went to Ottawa for a week in November, to take in the Remembrance Day Ceremony on Parliament Hill.   For the entire week, the temperature hovered around freezing, with a mixture of rain and snow falling most of the time, and with two inches of slush on the ground where ever I went.

This August, when I'm sitting in my Edmonton backyard, drinking beer and being eaten alive by mosquitoes, I'll be saying to myself:* "it could be worse, I could be in Ottawa in November".*


----------



## hdrolfe

As someone who lives in Ottawa, I am kind of happy that this year I seem to be getting out and enjoying the summer weather more (already). While this lockdown is a horrible situation in general, I am getting out for more walks and such simple to get out of the house! Normally I'd go to work, work all day, come home and not want to leave again. Now I'm looking for excuses to go for a walk. Though the high temperatures this week are proving difficult. But hey, I didn't get to go on my March Break cruise so I've been waiting a long time for this heat. It certainly doesn't last long enough.


----------



## bankr63

Reepicheep said:


> This August, when I'm sitting in my Edmonton backyard, drinking beer and being eaten alive by mosquitoes, I'll be saying to myself:* "it could be worse, I could be in Ottawa in November".*


Or worse yet, you could be in Edmonton in January...

Full disclosure, I may be an Ottawa resident now, but I was once an Edmontonian.


----------



## kittyab

Reepicheep said:


> I just checked out the CNN website, and the headline reads as follows:
> 
> *FLORIDA COULD BE THE NEXT COVID-19 EPICENTER*
> 
> The accompanying article contains little in the way of positive news.
> 
> For the past couple of days I've been wearing a mask for short periods (say, while in a store shopping), and I find it very unpleasant.  I can't imagine wearing a mask for hours on end in the Florida heat and humidity.  For now, I'm going to hang on to my early August resort reservations, in the hope that when Disney (in all probability) cancels my reservations, they'll give me some sort of offer that I can carry forward to my next trip, likely in August 2021.
> 
> My backup plan for the summer is taking a one week trip to Disneyland during the last week in August, but that looks increasingly unlikely as well.



I saw this and another article stated that over 250 employees at the Orlando Airport tested positive.    Yeah keep that border closed for awhile.

I have noticed states they lots of riots/protests their numbers really jumped.


----------



## CanadaDisney05

Reepicheep said:


> his August, when I'm sitting in my Edmonton backyard, drinking beer and being eaten alive by mosquitoes, I'll be saying to myself:* "it could be worse, I could be in Ottawa in November".*



As a former Calgarian who now lives in Ottawa, it could be worst, I could be in Edmonton.... Go Flames Go!


----------



## wdwmom3

kittyab said:


> I saw this and another article stated that over 250 employees at the Orlando Airport tested positive.    Yeah keep that border closed for awhile.
> 
> I have noticed states they lots of riots/protests their numbers really jumped.



I actually read an article that stated in some of the states with protests (including Minniosota and New York) did not see a large increase that could be attributed to protests. People who protested were tested and there was not a higher rate of positive cases. They believe because a lot of protesters wore masks, and they were outside it didn’t cause a spike.

Also we had large protests here and cases have continued to drop. So cases can be blamed on people doing other things things going to crowded bars, parties, etc. Not protests.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/recent-protests-may-not-be-covid-19-transmission-hotspots-11592498020


----------



## Best_Vacation_EVER!

Interesting article in the Orlando Sentinel -- The Florida Keys will require face masks until June 2021 in many businesses.

Obviously this could change but I guess some areas in Florida are taking this more seriously.


----------



## ottawamom

Reepicheep said:


> Seeing @ottawamom's handle reminded me of a very pleasant one week July trip I took to Ottawa many years ago.  The trip was so pleasant that a year later I went to Ottawa for a week in November, to take in the Remembrance Day Ceremony on Parliament Hill.   For the entire week, the temperature hovered around freezing, with a mixture of rain and snow falling most of the time, and with two inches of slush on the ground where ever I went.
> 
> This August, when I'm sitting in my Edmonton backyard, drinking beer and being eaten alive by mosquitoes, I'll be saying to myself:* "it could be worse, I could be in Ottawa in November".*


I agree there isn't anything much worse than Ottawa in November. I have never liked the month even though my oldest was born in November. Too much grey.


----------



## pigletto

kittyab said:


> I saw this and another article stated that over 250 employees at the Orlando Airport tested positive.    Yeah keep that border closed for awhile.
> 
> I have noticed states they lots of riots/protests their numbers really jumped.


Orlando airport says 500 employees were tested over three days and only 2 tests came back positive .
https://www.clickorlando.com/news/l...ovid-19-after-florida-reports-2783-new-cases/


----------



## CanucksRock

I'm booked for September. So lots of time for the spike to happen and go down   I saw that they are making masks mandatory, so hopefully that helps. 

My brother & SIL are planning on coming up in July; so I'll see first hand what a 14 day quarantine is like. (Even though we keep hoping that it will be lifted or modified) They are staying at least 3 weeks; so that they have a week out of quarantine and can actually see family & friends.


----------



## mshanson3121

I really don't see the national border opening until fall at the earliest.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Anyone heading down for the Halloween party should know that they are all cancelled.


----------



## Pinkgurlshubby

I don't see it opening any time soon. Every month I keep looking in hopes I can get back to work soon and every month goes by my income and career are going out the window. Been unemployed over 3 months now. Anyone hates the main line carriers still thinking it's a government subsidy and wants it shut down you are all getting your wishes but it also comes at a cost of thousands of Canadians on EI. I can't even go back to school and do something else because of my age. Who wants to hire someone fresh out of school who is only going to be around 10 years at best until retiring? The only job leads I've found where packaging chocolates in a factory that pays minimum wage. Even the EI top up because the company I work for and our beloved government decided only pilots and flight attendants and every other department qualified for wage subsidy except for the mechanics, that measly little 500 a week barely covers our mortgage and taxes and we have another 8 years to go before our house is paid. Sorry for the rant but the only people that want the borders to remain closed are the people still working or retired and don't have to worry about how they will be paying their bills and not going bankrupt by the fall. Sorry for the rant but this has broken me to the point there is nothing left to hold out for


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

@Pinkgurlshubby So sorry to hear of your situation.  

We never really get to hear from the people where the CERB just doesn't help some as it helps some others.


----------



## LuvMyEAR

ottawamom said:


> I agree there isn't anything much worse than Ottawa in November. I have never liked the month even though my oldest was born in November. Too much grey.


Sounds just like late Feb - early April in Nova Scotia!


----------



## ottawamom

@Pinkgurlshubby my heart goes out to you. Big virtual Hugs.


----------



## pigletto

Pinkgurlshubby said:


> I don't see it opening any time soon. Every month I keep looking in hopes I can get back to work soon and every month goes by my income and career are going out the window. Been unemployed over 3 months now. Anyone hates the main line carriers still thinking it's a government subsidy and wants it shut down you are all getting your wishes but it also comes at a cost of thousands of Canadians on EI. I can't even go back to school and do something else because of my age. Who wants to hire someone fresh out of school who is only going to be around 10 years at best until retiring? The only job leads I've found where packaging chocolates in a factory that pays minimum wage. Even the EI top up because the company I work for and our beloved government decided only pilots and flight attendants and every other department qualified for wage subsidy except for the mechanics, that measly little 500 a week barely covers our mortgage and taxes and we have another 8 years to go before our house is paid. Sorry for the rant but the only people that want the borders to remain closed are the people still working or retired and don't have to worry about how they will be paying their bills and not going bankrupt by the fall. Sorry for the rant but this has broken me to the point there is nothing left to hold out for


I’m so sorry . I think people just aren’t aware of the economic nightmare this is causing for some. We are going to see it more and more and I think we really need to think hard about what we are saying when we say we don’t want to see the borders open or our communities to get back to work. 
My opinion has evolved along with this pandemic and I worry about  the economic realities facing Canadians just as much as the virus these days.  We could be a year or more away from a reliable vaccine that we can all get our hands on. Its easy to shrug our shoulders when we talk about the tourism industry but its a huge employer in the area where I live and those people will start losing their homes and be unable to pay their bills if it goes on much longer. 
I don’t want to see people sickened or dying from COVID, I don’t want to see people losing their homes and businesses ..there just doesn’t seem to be a right answer for everyone. 
I’m truly sorry for your worry and stress right now @Pinkgurlshubby.


----------



## wdwmom3

Pinkgurlshubby said:


> I don't see it opening any time soon. Every month I keep looking in hopes I can get back to work soon and every month goes by my income and career are going out the window. Been unemployed over 3 months now. Anyone hates the main line carriers still thinking it's a government subsidy and wants it shut down you are all getting your wishes but it also comes at a cost of thousands of Canadians on EI. I can't even go back to school and do something else because of my age. Who wants to hire someone fresh out of school who is only going to be around 10 years at best until retiring? The only job leads I've found where packaging chocolates in a factory that pays minimum wage. Even the EI top up because the company I work for and our beloved government decided only pilots and flight attendants and every other department qualified for wage subsidy except for the mechanics, that measly little 500 a week barely covers our mortgage and taxes and we have another 8 years to go before our house is paid. Sorry for the rant but the only people that want the borders to remain closed are the people still working or retired and don't have to worry about how they will be paying their bills and not going bankrupt by the fall. Sorry for the rant but this has broken me to the point there is nothing left to hold out for



I’m really sorry for your situation.  But please don’t be mad at us.  Be mad at the clowns ruining things in the US. They are acting like it’s nothing and will likely only be a matter of time before some hospitals are at capacity there.  We can’t allow tourists from the US to come here when they can’t even control things in their own country.  If they had taken things more seriously and not made the pandemic some political statement we would be close to opening things up.


----------



## pigletto

wdwmom3 said:


> I’m really sorry for your situation.  But please don’t be mad at us.  Be mad at the clowns ruining things in the US. They are acting like it’s nothing and will likely only be a matter of time before some hospitals are at capacity there.  We can’t allow tourists from the US to come here when they can’t even control things in their own country.  If they had taken things more seriously and not made the pandemic some political statement we would be close to opening things up.


In fairness, we are closed to many more countries than the US. We could see a small bump in recovery if we were to open up to countries who have their act together.


----------



## wdwmom3

pigletto said:


> In fairness, we are closed to many more borders than the US. We could see a small bump in recovery if we were to open up to countries who have their act together.



yeah and that would be a good idea.


----------



## bcwife76

wdwmom3 said:


> yeah and that would be a good idea.


I agree as well. I think we should be opening our borders who have been taking this seriously all along (such as New Zealand and Australia for example) but until the 14 day quarantine is lifted.....that is the tourism killer right there. They NEED to find a different way to approach it for sure.


----------



## wdwmom3

bcwife76 said:


> I agree as well. I think we should be opening our borders who have been taking this seriously all along (such as New Zealand and Australia for example) but until the 14 day quarantine is lifted.....that is the tourism killer right there. They NEED to find a different way to approach it for sure.



Interestingly I’m just watching on the news that the EU is considering banning people from the US, even after they open to other countries.  
Maybe we can open a Canada / EU bubble and we can all go to the parks in France lol.


----------



## FigmentSpark

It would be interesting to know how many of the people who've done their 14 day quarantines have actually come down with Covid.


----------



## Donald - my hero

*****EDITED TO ADD my own comments for clarity
The map was put together in the USA and because of that they are the ones who made that clear demarcation line sooo blunt. Most of The dots within Canada are for each province as a whole! Sooo for example the one for Ontario is waaay too far from the actual border. *****

My heart breaks for those who are truly suffering right now because of the border closures and i do not for one moment want to distract from that pain. I do however want to share something i found tonight that took my breath away. This is a screenshot from the Johns Hopkins University COVID Dashboard and Interactive map. Look at the USA and South America, then look at Canada. Red indicates cases of COVID 19.  There is a clear demarcation at the USA-Canadian Border. 


If anyone want to look at this website it shows some very sobering numbers 
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/map.htm...HTII45_eFUu3fvVnRtJ3V1h14l5Z5zOl3a8hviJ3SNlqI*


----------



## pigletto

That’s chilling. What is even more chilling is watching how political this has become in the States and how misleading the messaging has been in some states. 
 We need to stay closed. I hate that we do, but look at that map.


----------



## starvenger

Hopefully everyone stays smart and vigilant. Stuff like the crowding at Toronto's Cherry Beach just cannot be allowed to happen right now. Too much at risk given how far we've come.


----------



## wdwmom3

pigletto said:


> That’s chilling. What is even more chilling is watching how political this has become in the States and how misleading the messaging has been in some states.
> We need to stay closed. I hate that we do, but look at that map.



I can’t wrap my head around how they can make a pandemic so political. I mean we are talking about people actually getting really sick or losing their life. I just don’t get it.

And I have to say I love how we can have these discussions about borders, masks, and opening things up and it doesn’t get nasty or political!!


----------



## Frozen2014

That map above is the exact reason my DH doesn't think the border is opening anytime soon.


----------



## Best_Vacation_EVER!

Seeing what's going on in Arizona, Florida, etc.. I sort of hope they keep the border closed until the end of the fall at the earliest.   Assuming that the second wave doesn't hit which could extend it further.


----------



## Donald - my hero

*ok I'm hanging my head in a bit of shame here gang. I'm leaving it as isfor now because the map  is chilling but I need to acknowledge that I posted it when exhausted and didn't add a bit of commentary. The map was put together in the USA and because of that they are the ones who made that clear demarcation line sooo blunt. Most of The dots within Canada are for each province as a whole! Sooo for example the one for Ontario is waaay too far from the actual border. 

I'd appreciate some input here from everyone - should I remove the screenshot and leave the link due to the glaring mistake of our dots hovering in the middle of the provinces and just let others look at the map themselves? I feel I've contributed to some of the fear mongering I myself despise even though it was created by a scientific source that's being trusted around the world. *


----------



## Best_Vacation_EVER!

Donald - my hero said:


> *ok I'm hanging my head in a bit of shame here gang. I'm leaving it as isfor now because the map  is chilling but I need to acknowledge that I posted it when exhausted and didn't add a bit of commentary. The map was put together in the USA and because of that they are the ones who made that clear demarcation line sooo blunt. Most of The dots within Canada are for each province as a whole! Sooo for example the one for Ontario is waaay too far from the actual border.
> 
> I'd appreciate some input here from everyone - should I remove the screenshot and leave the link due to the glaring mistake of our dots hovering in the middle of the provinces and just let others look at the map themselves? I feel I've contributed to some of the fear mongering I myself despise even though it was created by a scientific source that's being trusted around the world. *



You're definitely not adding to fear mongering...  It's great info to have.

But if you're feeling uncomfortable maybe just add a quick edit to the post with a note saying that the dots for Canada are aggregated and reflect the total for each province and not the specific locale that the dot appears on.


----------



## wdwmom3

Donald - my hero said:


> *ok I'm hanging my head in a bit of shame here gang. I'm leaving it as isfor now because the map  is chilling but I need to acknowledge that I posted it when exhausted and didn't add a bit of commentary. The map was put together in the USA and because of that they are the ones who made that clear demarcation line sooo blunt. Most of The dots within Canada are for each province as a whole! Sooo for example the one for Ontario is waaay too far from the actual border.
> 
> I'd appreciate some input here from everyone - should I remove the screenshot and leave the link due to the glaring mistake of our dots hovering in the middle of the provinces and just let others look at the map themselves? I feel I've contributed to some of the fear mongering I myself despise even though it was created by a scientific source that's being trusted around the world. *



I don’t think you need to remove it.  I think we are all adults with brains who can read and research for ourselves.  I agree it’s not totally accurate but the “idea” behind it is.  There is no denying that the US is in significantly worse shape then we are.   I don’t think that’s fear mongering I think it’s more of a reality check.


----------



## starvenger

Wait... so Thunder Bay isn't the hot spot for all of Ontario's cases? I WAS FOOLED. 



wdwmom3 said:


> I can’t wrap my head around how they can make a pandemic so political. I mean we are talking about people actually getting really sick or losing their life. I just don’t get it.
> 
> And I have to say I love how we can have these discussions about borders, masks, and opening things up and it doesn’t get nasty or political!!


It helps that our leaders have put their political differences aside to provide a (more or less) united front on this issue. That's all I'll say about that.


----------



## hdrolfe

I'd say to leave it, I notice most of the countries outside of the US have a single dot, like if you look at the Caribbean countries it looks very red, but a lot of those places have very low cases (according to another site I follow, it's on facebook so I can't link to it from this computer). I did wonder a bit at the Northern Ontario dot but figure it out


----------



## pigletto

Totally easy mistake to make @Donald - my hero !  I rushed to post something yesterday and didn’t hear it right and felt bad. It happens. Though I would vote to remove and leave the link as the graphic is misleading without context. Or edit for the context at the top of the post . Either would be fine.


----------



## Kaadk

I was kind of wondering why Windsor/Essex didn't show any cases when I zoomed in.  I had assumed they just didn't have the correct data, but aggregates make more sense.  Even averaging those dots over the Canadian populace though, we'd be way lower than the States.... Mostly because we're way lower total population.  Don't get me wrong, they're still pretty out of control over there, the other page that shows how whether or not they're flatting the curve showing a recent upsurge is proof of that, but any map that shows total cases only is always going to be skewed to be unfavourable to the countries with the higher population density.


----------



## vegs1

Pinkgurlshubby said:


> I don't see it opening any time soon. Every month I keep looking in hopes I can get back to work soon and every month goes by my income and career are going out the window. Been unemployed over 3 months now. Anyone hates the main line carriers still thinking it's a government subsidy and wants it shut down you are all getting your wishes but it also comes at a cost of thousands of Canadians on EI. I can't even go back to school and do something else because of my age. Who wants to hire someone fresh out of school who is only going to be around 10 years at best until retiring? The only job leads I've found where packaging chocolates in a factory that pays minimum wage. Even the EI top up because the company I work for and our beloved government decided only pilots and flight attendants and every other department qualified for wage subsidy except for the mechanics, that measly little 500 a week barely covers our mortgage and taxes and we have another 8 years to go before our house is paid. Sorry for the rant but the only people that want the borders to remain closed are the people still working or retired and don't have to worry about how they will be paying their bills and not going bankrupt by the fall. Sorry for the rant but this has broken me to the point there is nothing left to hold out for



I am truly sorry for what you are going through. The stress must be unbearable but please do hold out for hope. 

I am, however, for keeping the border closed. The US has numbers that are escalating daily and they just can’t and don’t seem to want to do much to reign them in. As was said earlier, it’s just so political.  If we open that border too soon, we will be seeing our numbers go up too and I know I don’t want another lockdown.  We all need to keep up our vigilance with this virus so we can move forward, not backward, and get people like you working again.  Wishing you all the best!


----------



## Pumpkin1172

@Pinkgurlshubby  It has hit the tourism industry hard.  I totally agree.  The tourism industry world wide has taken a HUGE hit.  It is going to take YEARS for it to recover.  There is not going to be some easy fix for this at all.  

I struggle with everything about the lock down.  Was it right or was it a little too extreme?  We needed to start opening up our economy again...or else risk having to go into a depression again...which would be way more devastating than this virus.   In Alberta...we had more people die from drug overdoses, than from the virus, because access to certain programs were shut down.  How many people died from NOT seeking medical treatment for major things like strokes and heart attacks because they waited too long for fear of going to the hospital where they could potentially get the virus and maybe die?  How many people will suffer long with cancer or now die from it because treatments were stopped or not started in time.  What about the mental health of people now? 

I don't know what the right answer to  all of this is.  All I know is the ramifications for all of it are going to be felt for MANY years.  No one could have predicted that this would have happened.  Now we just have to hope that those in power can find creative ways to correct it instead of bickering back and forth in a parliament room


----------



## Reepicheep

We are starting to have some weird cases in Alberta of American tourists crossing into Canada under false pretenses.  Americans from south of the border can enter Canada if they are driving to Alaska, if they promise to drive straight through with minimal stops.  Unfortunately, we are starting to see American tourists using this as a loophole to enter Canada and visit Banff and other national parks.  The RCMP is starting to hand out $1,200 tickets to any Americans who are caught abusing this rule:

American Tourists fined $1,200

****************
I've finally thrown in the towel on my Aug 1-15 trip to *Disney World*.  We had reservations for a split stay, switching several times between All-Star Movies and Coronado Springs club level.  Yesterday I cancelled my three All-Star Movies reservations, and I'll probably do the same for my remaining two Coronado Spring reservations in a week or two.

Since I have some unused 5 day tickets for *Disneyland*, I've been crossing my fingers and hoping that we could go to Anaheim for the last week in August, but with coronavirus getting out of control in California that is now a faint hope.  In regards to US Disney trips, I think we're all going to be out of luck until the summer of 2021.

I find myself looking forward with an unreasonably large amount of anticipation to the day the two *Edmonton Disney stores *reopen and I can wander through the stores while listening to the Disney music being played over the store speakers.  Maybe I'll feel better if I buy some over priced Disney merchandise, I guess we have to take our Disney fixes where ever we can find them.

We gave my youngest daughter the *Lego Disney Castle* for Christmas, and she plans to start construction within the next day or two.  I'm actually looking forward to watching her build it.  Watching her probably won't be as exciting as doing the new* "Rise of the Resistance"* ride, but better than nothing.   She's starting to get into cooking and baking, so I'm going to see if I can convince her, over the course of the summer, to try out some of the recipes on the web for things like* grey stuff* and* dole whips*.


----------



## Donald - my hero

Kaadk said:


> I was kind of wondering why Windsor/Essex didn't show any cases when I zoomed in.  I had assumed they just didn't have the correct data, but aggregates make more sense.  Even averaging those dots over the Canadian populace though, we'd be way lower than the States.... Mostly because we're way lower total population.  Don't get me wrong, they're still pretty out of control over there, the other page that shows how whether or not they're flatting the curve showing a recent upsurge is proof of that, but any map that shows total cases only is always going to be skewed to be unfavourable to the countries with the higher population density.


*True, and what needs to be taken into account for our 2 specific countries if you're only going to look at the direct correlation between population numbers is the following information
Cases per million in Canada is currently 2,709
Cases per million in USA is currently 7,425
Deaths per million in Canada is currently 225
Deaths per million in the USA is currently 375
** current as at midnight Greenwich mean time

I also understand and acknowledge that we need to also take into account that the population in the USA is closer together simply due to geographic size of their country and we know this virus is spread by close contact with other people.

And finally, i do NOT want to start a petty argument over this, it's just a personal bug-bear to me at the moment that there are far too many people looking at numbers without any context not implying that is what you were doing!!( sorta agreeing with you actually!*


----------



## Sue M

@Pinkgurlshubby I’m so sorry for what you’re going thru


----------



## TammyLynn33

I get the problems this is causing but we here have had zero cases for a long time and bam we have a nail salon outbreak as of today . I know one friend and one of my daughters classmates who got her nails done for grade 8 grad were tested today .wejiat opened up and bam it’s going to get bad


----------



## ottawamom

I was shocke when I saw that story on the news. How things can change in an instant. This is one weird virus. We all need to remember not to ever let our guard down.


----------



## tinkerone

TammyLynn33 said:


> I get the problems this is causing but we here have had zero cases for a long time and bam we have a nail salon outbreak as of today . I know one friend and one of my daughters classmates who got her nails done for grade 8 grad were tested today .wejiat opened up and bam it’s going to get bad


Amherstview Golf Club has had a case as well.  Someone who golfed there Monday night was positive and one of their employees who came into contact with them has tested positive as well.  It's getting scary around here again.


----------



## gskywalker

I can't seem to find anything about this, what province is the nail salon outbreak happening in?


----------



## bankr63

Just to add a couple of resources to what @Donald - my hero posted, and I have posted the Johns Hopkins link here a couple of times as well, for the Canada visual go to: https://resources-covid19canada.hub.arcgis.com/app/eb0ec6ffdb654e71ab3c758726c55b68 This map allows you to zoom down to the county level where available (depends a bit on how the reporting unit aligns - may not be county if there are no county health units).  For those in Ontario check out how the flattening battle goes at: https://howsmyflattening.ca/#/dashboard,

Note on the Johns Hopkins site that they added a USA specific page a couple of weeks ago.  You can select it at the tabs on the top and from there select a specific state to see their current curve.  Spoiler alert: don't look at Florida or you may decide to never return to Disney again...


----------



## Silvermist999

gskywalker said:


> I can't seem to find anything about this, what province is the nail salon outbreak happening in?



The outbreak I heard about was at a Kingston, Ontario nail salon.

https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/covid-19-...weeks-after-ontario-entered-stage-2-1.4999698


----------



## tinkerone

TammyLynn33 said:


> I get the problems this is causing but we here have had zero cases for a long time and bam we have a nail salon outbreak as of today . I know one friend and one of my daughters classmates who got her nails done for grade 8 grad were tested today .wejiat opened up and bam it’s going to get bad


Plus we have Queens students coming back and they are from all over.  At least its not a full campus but that could start another wave.  I think the quiet time might be over for a bit.


----------



## kittyab

Travel insurance will not cover you if you catch COVID19.  That alone will keep me home till there is a vaccine. 

We are skipping this year, and when we can go, will plan a fabulous trip.


----------



## CJK

kittyab said:


> Travel insurance will not cover you if you catch COVID19. That alone will keep me home till there is a vaccine.


I haven't kept up with this situation, since I just cancelled our September trip. Are there no insurance companies that will cover COVID-19? If not, is there any hope of that before the end of 2020?


----------



## kittyab

CJK said:


> I haven't kept up with this situation, since I just cancelled our September trip. Are there no insurance companies that will cover COVID-19? If not, is there any hope of that before the end of 2020?



Mine provided by my employer wont, and that is SunLite.   Before traveling ask those questions about the insurance.


----------



## wdwmom3

CJK said:


> I haven't kept up with this situation, since I just cancelled our September trip. Are there no insurance companies that will cover COVID-19? If not, is there any hope of that before the end of 2020?



I don’t think any will cover you as long as there is a travel advisory.  And that depends on how things go in the US.


----------



## pixie_mtl

I suspect there will be another extension... as long as the Americans doesn't take covid-19 seriously, our borders will remain closed


----------



## Frozen2014

Florida's numbers were crazy today. I don't see us opening up ant time soon.


----------



## ottawamom

I'm hoping we stay closed until the States get things under "real" control.


----------



## Aug2020distrip

I have a WWYD question. We obviously are not going in August, so we switched our condo dates to April.
Currently the April flight dates we are planning are the exact same price as our current ones, so can do an easy switch and be done with it.

BUT do you think with WestJet we only get to switch our flights once for free? As in, do you think it’s smarter to just full on cancel flight, get those travel credits and then wait to book when we see that we can Actually go in April? I mean I would hope by then it’s fine but who knows.

a big worry with waiting is will prices shoot up?? I can’t tell if travel will be pricier or cheaper next year


----------



## samsteele

Aug2020distrip said:


> I can’t tell if travel will be pricier or cheaper next year


Unless the Cdn airlines' hoped for public bailout includes consumer price protection, then tickets will likely be more $. Fuel is fuel and pilots/cabin crew expenses are constant. Social distancing, losing every other seat and/or $ of plexiglass seat dividers can't be completely absorbed by stockholders.

Will WDW tickets significantly increase in 2021? Beyond the usual annual increases? Time will tell. Further covid waves will keep out of state and international guests away for the long term. May see a return of post-911 bargain package specials including full free dining. Crystal ball gazing right now.


----------



## Aug2020distrip

samsteele said:


> Unless the Cdn airlines' hoped for public bailout includes consumer price protection, then tickets will likely be more $. Fuel is fuel and pilots/cabin crew expenses are constant. Social distancing, losing every other seat and/or $ of plexiglass seat dividers can't be completely absorbed by stockholders.
> 
> Will WDW tickets significantly increase in 2021? Beyond the usual annual increases? Time will tell. Further covid waves will keep out of state and international guests away for the long term. May see a return of post-911 bargain package specials including full free dining. Crystal ball gazing right now.


Yeah, maybe I should just do a switch. Unfortunate thing is I can’t do that online so would have to call. And they say not to call unless your flight leaves in 72 hours. I expect I will be on hold for awhile. Decisions decisions, but yeah I’m also leaning toward pricier...


----------



## tinkerone

Aug2020distrip said:


> Yeah, maybe I should just do a switch. Unfortunate thing is I can’t do that online so would have to call. And they say not to call unless your flight leaves in 72 hours.* I expect I will be on hold for awhile. *Decisions decisions, but yeah I’m also leaning toward pricier...


I had the same issue with Air Canada.  I called two days in a row and each time waited for over three hours before hanging up.  The third day I hit the link for making a new reservation and what do you know, they had an option to have *them* call *me* back.  I used that option and they called me back in an hour.  Maybe that would work with WestJet, I don't know, but worth pushing all the buttons to see what happens if the wait is going to be to long.


----------



## wdwmom3

Aug2020distrip said:


> I have a WWYD question. We obviously are not going in August, so we switched our condo dates to April.
> Currently the April flight dates we are planning are the exact same price as our current ones, so can do an easy switch and be done with it.
> 
> BUT do you think with WestJet we only get to switch our flights once for free? As in, do you think it’s smarter to just full on cancel flight, get those travel credits and then wait to book when we see that we can Actually go in April? I mean I would hope by then it’s fine but who knows.
> 
> a big worry with waiting is will prices shoot up?? I can’t tell if travel will be pricier or cheaper next year



we are hoping to go next May and the flights on WestJet were actually much cheaper then the flights we had before. So I was able to rebook and still have some $ in flight credits.

right now they say you can cancel or change once.  But if you cancel your just get your travel bank.  If you use those funds in the travel bank, and then book now while they have the flexible change policy, you should also be able to cancel or change that flight.  Does that make sense? You may want to call and confirm that though.


----------



## wdwmom3

Aug2020distrip said:


> Yeah, maybe I should just do a switch. Unfortunate thing is I can’t do that online so would have to call. And they say not to call unless your flight leaves in 72 hours. I expect I will be on hold for awhile. Decisions decisions, but yeah I’m also leaning toward pricier...



I have had success contacting WestJet over Facebook messenger to get questions answered.  It sometimes take a long time for them to respond but it’s better then holding on the phone.


----------



## Aug2020distrip

wdwmom3 said:


> we are hoping to go next May and the flights on WestJet were actually much cheaper then the flights we had before. So I was able to rebook and still have some $ in flight credits.
> 
> right now they say you can cancel or change once.  But if you cancel your just get your travel bank.  If you use those funds in the travel bank, and then book now while they have the flexible change policy, you should also be able to cancel or change that flight.  Does that make sense? You may want to call and confirm that though.


Oh, this is smart! To cancel I can do online. This makes a lot of sense, I may just do this lol and hope the price doesn’t go up while I wait for my travel credits to show up.

I actually feel April is probably cheaper than August anyway (we aren’t going over Easter), so I think In the end even if we wait a bit it won’t go much higher than what we paid per person for August, which was $620 Round trip


----------



## Aug2020distrip

Well that was easy, just talked to the main person paying for this trip and she agreed to just cancel for now and book later. Yay, something I can do online without calling!


----------



## Donald - my hero

samsteele said:


> Unless the Cdn airlines' hoped for public bailout includes consumer price protection, then tickets will likely be more $. Fuel is fuel and pilots/cabin crew expenses are constant. Social distancing, losing every other seat and/or $ of plexiglass seat dividers can't be completely absorbed by stockholders.
> 
> Will WDW tickets significantly increase in 2021? Beyond the usual annual increases? Time will tell. Further covid waves will keep out of state and international guests away for the long term. May see a return of post-911 bargain package specials including full free dining. Crystal ball gazing right now.



*both westjet and air Canada announced yesterday that they'll no longer be blocking off middle seats effective July 1st!
https://globalnews.ca/news/7113341/westjet-ends-social-distancing/*


----------



## samsteele

Donald - my hero said:


> *both westjet and air Canada announced yesterday that they'll no longer be blocking off middle seats effective July 1st!
> https://globalnews.ca/news/7113341/westjet-ends-social-distancing/*


Scary. Wonder how long that will last.


----------



## pigletto

Donald - my hero said:


> *both westjet and air Canada announced yesterday that they'll no longer be blocking off middle seats effective July 1st!
> https://globalnews.ca/news/7113341/westjet-ends-social-distancing/*


Check out this CBC marketplace study to see how clean these planes were pre pandemic...
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/flights-filthy-surfaces-airplane-marketplace-1.4873586
I‘m not sure they could do enough to convince me they could keep those planes clean right now .. and certainly not by dropping the middle seat restrictions.  

Canadian airlines operate with very low margins and need those seats filled to be viable, which I understand.  Hopefully people don’t mistake that to mean that it’s safer than it was .


----------



## kittyab

wdwmom3 said:


> I don’t think any will cover you as long as there is a travel advisory.  And that depends on how things go in the US.



It is a good idea to check with your travel insurance to see what they cover before booking a trip.  Ours has stated it will cover hospital stays due to COVID regardless if the border opens.  I will wait for a vaccine.


----------



## NAB

tinkerone said:


> Plus we have Queens students coming back and they are from all over.  At least its not a full campus but that could start another wave.  I think the quiet time might be over for a bit.


Wow , McMaster is doing on line fall courses no one is going back to campus. This is Hamilton. 

My daughter is a 3rd year nursing student , they can’t tell her how her clinical will be done. 1 and second year will only have theirs second term none in the fall. This will be hard since it is a hands on course.


----------



## Iralyn

Do you think there is any chance that Canada will begin to allow travel to/from other countries (that have Covid better under control) while the Canada-U.S. border remains closed?  I'm not sure that it has been officially confirmed but it sounds like Canadians will be allowed to enter the EU beginning in July (though obviously Canada has not yet lifted the 'no non-essential travel' advisory).  Made me wonder if Canada might open to other countries.


----------



## tinkerone

NAB said:


> Wow , McMaster is doing on line fall courses no one is going back to campus. This is Hamilton.
> 
> My daughter is a 3rd year nursing student , they can’t tell her how her clinical will be done. 1 and second year will only have theirs second term none in the fall. This will be hard since it is a hands on course.


From my understanding it will not be all students.  Here is what is posted in our papers

https://www.kingstonist.com/news/queens-university-to-open-residences-to-single-first-year-students/


----------



## FigmentSpark

That has me worried.  My son is supposed to be at another university.  If we don't take the res in the fall, will he be able to get in for the winter?  He might not.  What to do... waste a semester's worth of dorm cost or take a chance for winter.  

AND  are the kids even going to be in class in the winter?  Right now, they are, but that can change.  If its all going to be on line, we don't even need a dorm room at all.


----------



## bcwife76

Iralyn said:


> Do you think there is any chance that Canada will begin to allow travel to/from other countries (that have Covid better under control) while the Canada-U.S. border remains closed?  I'm not sure that it has been officially confirmed but it sounds like Canadians will be allowed to enter the EU beginning in July (though obviously Canada has not yet lifted the 'no non-essential travel' advisory).  Made me wonder if Canada might open to other countries.


I'd be down for that!! But would he keep the quarantine act in place though?


----------



## 22Tink

FigmentSpark said:


> That has me worried.  My son is supposed to be at another university.  If we don't take the res in the fall, will he be able to get in for the winter?  He might not.  What to do... waste a semester's worth of dorm cost or take a chance for winter.
> 
> AND  are the kids even going to be in class in the winter?  Right now, they are, but that can change.  If its all going to be on line, we don't even need a dorm room at all.


We’re in the same boat. We know for sure DS first semester will be all online but we still don’t know for sure about the second. He’s planning to stay home for the first but then will we struggle to find him housing if he ends up having to go down for the second?


----------



## vegs1

22Tink said:


> We’re in the same boat. We know for sure DS first semester will be all online but we still don’t know for sure about the second. He’s planning to stay home for the first but then will we struggle to find him housing if he ends up having to go down for the second?



Have you tried calling the university and speaking with the residence manager?  They may have some options for you and I’m sure you won’t be the only person asking.


----------



## NAB

tinkerone said:


> From my understanding it will not be all students.  Here is what is posted in our papers
> 
> https://www.kingstonist.com/news/queens-university-to-open-residences-to-single-first-year-students/


Yeah we are like the one guy who already paid for the year off campus apartment  . Been in the same place last 2 years and is going back there to do her on line courses. Too many distractions at home including the cat....lol 

Hoping she stays away from a lot of people but will be hard .


----------



## Maddysdaddy

CJK said:


> I haven't kept up with this situation, since I just cancelled our September trip. Are there no insurance companies that will cover COVID-19? If not, is there any hope of that before the end of 2020?



There are no Cdn. travel insurers who are covering Covid. From what I have read, the underwriter for CAA insurance has advised that they are open to covering Covid once it is no longer deemed a pandemic, but I do t even want to think of what the premiums might be on that policy...

I posted a link to the Gov’t of Cda website on this issue in a different thread. I think if you click my name, you can probably find it fairly easily.


----------



## Jrb1979

Why any Canadian would want to fly into that hot bed is beyond me. The concerning thing is how most downplay cases rising.  I will just stay in Canada thank you. My trailer is open so I will spend my summer there. Away from as many people as possible.


----------



## 22Tink

vegs1 said:


> Have you tried calling the university and speaking with the residence manager?  They may have some options for you and I’m sure you won’t be the only person asking.


Good idea! I actually hadn’t even thought of that since DS said he doesn’t want to stay on campus. He may just not have a choice this year though if that’s all we can find.


----------



## SirDuff

Jrb1979 said:


> Why any Canadian would want to fly into that hot bed is beyond me. The concerning thing is how most downplay cases rising.  I will just stay in Canada thank you. My trailer is open so I will spend my summer there. Away from as many people as possible.



Some of us have family there.


----------



## TinkFan74

Maddysdaddy said:


> There are no Cdn. travel insurers who are covering Covid. From what I have read, the underwriter for CAA insurance has advised that they are open to covering Covid once it is no longer deemed a pandemic, but I do t even want to think of what the premiums might be on that policy...
> 
> I posted a link to the Gov’t of Cda website on this issue in a different thread. I think if you click my name, you can probably find it fairly easily.


Seven Corners Insurance has a plan that covers COVID.


----------



## vegs1

TinkFan74 said:


> Seven Corners Insurance has a plan that covers COVID.
> [/QUO
> 
> the COVID coverage is to a maximum of 100,000. Not a whole lot of coverage if you were hospitalized for any length of time.
> 
> ETA: forgot to mention that this is not a Canadian insurance company.


----------



## vegs1

22Tink said:


> Good idea! I actually hadn’t even thought of that since DS said he doesn’t want to stay on campus. He may just not have a choice this year though if that’s all we can find.



I am not 100% sure on this but I believe you choose either when applying or accepting the room offer which term you want it for.  Some universities also have a residence or housing page with FAQ’s directly related to Coronavirus. I’d still call and ask though. Good luck!


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

My BMO World Elite Mastercard travel insurance covers COVID-19, but it doesn't cover if you travel to a country where there is a Government do-not-travel advisory, which is literally everywhere right now.

My work travel insurance does not cover anything COVID-19 related.

I think every insurance company has one or the other of the above stipulations.


----------



## Jrb1979

My work insurance doesn't cover it either. It looks like us Canadians will have to travel in our country for awhile. For those that want a theme park fix why not do Wonderland when it opens.


----------



## starvenger

SirDuff said:


> Some of us have family there.


I have family in San Antonio, Houston and Dallas. A little tougher for them since we are Asian but I haven't heard anything bad as of yet.

I am looking at Oahu (speficially Waikiki) for Christmas break since they've replaced the quarantine with a pre-trip COVID check. It currently feels like end of year will be a point where it's relatively safe to travel again and Hawaii has done a pretty good job at preventing the spread of the virus.

Of course, Waikiki is about as pricey as it always is, so we'll see if this happens, or if we just go to a resort in the Caribbean somewhere, or just sit in the snow.


----------



## Nagle

Jrb1979 said:


> Why any Canadian would want to fly into that hot bed is beyond me. The concerning thing is how most downplay cases rising.  I will just stay in Canada thank you. My trailer is open so I will spend my summer there. Away from as many people as possible.


 Agree 100%. I am permitted to get to my fishing camp near La Tuque, Quebec, so I will keep away from the crowds up there for a while.


----------



## Disneylover99

Jrb1979 said:


> My work insurance doesn't cover it either. It looks like us Canadians will have to travel in our country for awhile. For those that want a theme park fix why not do Wonderland when it opens.


We went to the Toronto Zoo this morning. We just pretended we were walking around Animal Kingdom. Lol. It kind of worked.


----------



## pigletto

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> My BMO World Elite Mastercard travel insurance covers COVID-19, but it doesn't cover if you travel to a country where there is a Government do-not-travel advisory, which is literally everywhere right now.
> 
> My work travel insurance does not cover anything COVID-19 related.
> 
> I think every insurance company has one or the other of the above stipulations.


We have the BMO World Elite and just assumed COVID wouldn‘t be covered, so that’s good to know. I don’t plan to go anywhere  for a long while, but when we do travel again  that seems like the card to book with for the insurance.


----------



## Lizardsoccernut

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> My BMO World Elite Mastercard travel insurance covers COVID-19, but it doesn't cover if you travel to a country where there is a Government do-not-travel advisory, which is literally everywhere right now.
> 
> My work travel insurance does not cover anything COVID-19 related.
> 
> I think every insurance company has one or the other of the above stipulations.



Not exactly: Canada Life (formerly Great West Life) through my employer has no exclusions for either Covid or travel advisories. And I have that in writing. Sunlife, who covers government of Canada employees, also doesn’t have coverage restrictions, as per information they have released publicly. For those of us with benefits through work, coverage is likely there (though check with your carrier). The issue will be for people who buy one off or multi-trip plans through travel insurance providers. They will have difficulty arranging coverage.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Lizardsoccernut said:


> Not exactly: Canada Life (formerly Great West Life) through my employer has no exclusions for either Covid or travel advisories. And I have that in writing. Sunlife, who covers government of Canada employees, also doesn’t have coverage restrictions, as per information they have released publicly. For those of us with benefits through work, coverage is likely there (though check with your carrier). The issue will be for people who buy one off or multi-trip plans through travel insurance providers. They will have difficulty arranging coverage.



My work plan is with Medavie Blue Cross. I called them about it and they specifically said  no covid coverage.

If your work plan covers you, that is great! However, you would be a minority then.
I don’t think it would be just one-off travelers who wouldn’t be able to get coverage. It would be most insurance providers having that exclusion.


----------



## Lizardsoccernut

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> My work plan is with Medavie Blue Cross. I called them about it and they specifically said  no covid coverage.
> 
> If your work plan covers you, that is great! However, you would be a minority then.
> I don’t think it would be just one-off travelers who wouldn’t be able to get coverage. It would be most insurance providers having that exclusion.


Sunlife and Canada Life (GWL) are 2 of the top 3 group insurance providers in Canada, so I wouldn’t say that puts me in the minority. I just checked Manulife too (the other of the big 3) and Covid is covered by them as well. So again: this is more an issue for people who need to buy travel insurance, not those of us with group benefits coverage. Your group coverage may not respond but it seems like the bigger plans will. 

That being said: the lesson here is to call your insurer and get them to send you the wording that says Covid isn‘t covered or that travel advisories nullify coverage.


----------



## wdwmom3

Lizardsoccernut said:


> Sunlife and Canada Life (GWL) are 2 of the top 3 group insurance providers in Canada, so I wouldn’t say that puts me in the minority. I just checked Manulife too (the other of the big 3) and Covid is covered by them as well. So again: this is more an issue for people who need to buy travel insurance, not those of us with group benefits coverage. Your group coverage may not respond but it seems like the bigger plans will.
> 
> That being said: the lesson here is to call your insurer and get them to send you the wording that says Covid isn‘t covered or that travel advisories nullify coverage.



I would still be careful.  Travel insurance companies are famous for finding reasons not to cover things.


----------



## Lizardsoccernut

wdwmom3 said:


> I would still be careful.  Travel insurance companies are famous for finding reasons not to cover things.


Yes, but this isn't travel insurance (though people often confuse the two) - this is an out of country extension of your group medical coverage. All of the major carriers have put out bulletins confirming if they are covering or not, so just get confirmation in writing that you will be covered and you will be OK.


----------



## wdwmom3

Lizardsoccernut said:


> Yes, but this isn't travel insurance (though people often confuse the two) - this is an out of country extension of your group medical coverage. All of the major carriers have put out bulletins confirming if they are covering or not, so just get confirmation in writing that you will be covered and you will be OK.


Yes I know what type of insurance you are talking about.  And they still play games around covering things.


----------



## Maddysdaddy

Lizardsoccernut said:


> Not exactly: Canada Life (formerly Great West Life) through my employer has no exclusions for either Covid or travel advisories. And I have that in writing. Sunlife, who covers government of Canada employees, also doesn’t have coverage restrictions, as per information they have released publicly. For those of us with benefits through work, coverage is likely there (though check with your carrier). The issue will be for people who buy one off or multi-trip plans through travel insurance providers. They will have difficulty arranging coverage.



Interesting. My wife’s travel coverage thru work (don’t recall if it’s GWL or Manulife) sent out a notice after pandemic status was declared saying that Covid coverage would be terminated two weeks later - to allow time for employees who were on vacation or working outside Canada, to get back into the country.


----------



## pigletto

Maddysdaddy said:


> Interesting. My wife’s travel coverage thru work (don’t recall if it’s GWL or Manulife) sent out a notice after pandemic status was declared saying that Covid coverage would be terminated two weeks later - to allow time for employees who were on vacation or working outside Canada, to get back into the country.


My husbands work did the same . We are with Greenshield.


----------



## sweethannah

FWIW, I checked my work's Manulife policy regarding group benefits and Covid 19 illness potentially related to traveling. Here is a snip of their policy updated as of June 18th:


----------



## vegs1

sweethannah said:


> FWIW, I checked my work's Manulife policy regarding group benefits and Covid 19 illness potentially related to traveling. Here is a snip of their policy updated as of June 18th:
> View attachment 505104



You’ll note that the terms say “subject to the terms of your contract”. 
Many group policy contracts differ. Please call them if you are planning to travel out of country to make 100% sure you’re covered.  It’s too risky to assume anything based on what someone says their policy indicates. You need to know what YOUR policy states.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

If anyone of you collect air miles and have had to talk to a rep, you'll know that you could get a difference answer depending on who you are talking with! lol


----------



## ottawamom

Broadway has just cancelled all shows in New York until 2021. That doesn't look good for anyone who is still hoping of heading south for a holiday this year. Just watching the news and the whole of the states is in deep doodoo.


----------



## wdwmom3

ottawamom said:


> Broadway has just cancelled all shows in New York until 2021. That doesn't look good for anyone who is still hoping of heading south for a holiday this year. Just watching the news and the whole of the states is in deep doodoo.



Agreed. I was watching a bit on (Canadian) news yesterday. They had an infectious diseases doctor from one of the Toronto hospitals on. He was saying that given the amount of cases and spread in the southern states, if they imposed the strictest measures now (think lockdown with only necessities open) it would take them months to get things under control.

The way the US is going in don’t see the border opening up for the next few months and then a strict 14 quarantine after that.


----------



## TammyLynn33

Am so glad my big kid decided stay home one more year before heading off to TO area for school that said I’m peeved at said school for not allowing him to Defer his acceptance a year based on they had no clue what was happening and he has underlying health conditions. Sigh . I feel for all
You parents not knowing and the kids .
Im still praying the border stays closed for awhile and that we don’t get a hub city . Ex is still I’ll sneak down for a couple days if we are quarantined in Toronto.. sigh
hope all is well


----------



## hdrolfe

I am wondering if Canada will open to other areas before the US. I just would like to head south this winter  Doesn't have to be to the US or even on a cruise, we've never done an all inclusive so I'd be open to that depending on where and how things are going. I think I will be avoiding the US until after the election and then we'll see.


----------



## wdwmom3

TammyLynn33 said:


> Am so glad my big kid decided stay home one more year before heading off to TO area for school that said I’m peeved at said school for not allowing him to Defer his acceptance a year based on they had no clue what was happening and he has underlying health conditions. Sigh . I feel for all
> You parents not knowing and the kids .
> Im still praying the border stays closed for awhile and that we don’t get a hub city . Ex is still I’ll sneak down for a couple days if we are quarantined in Toronto.. sigh
> hope all is well



If your ex breaks quarantine just report them. I think people can be fined.


----------



## 22Tink

hdrolfe said:


> I am wondering if Canada will open to other areas before the US. I just would like to head south this winter  Doesn't have to be to the US or even on a cruise, we've never done an all inclusive so I'd be open to that depending on where and how things are going. I think I will be avoiding the US until after the election and then we'll see.


I was thinking the same. A relaxing all inclusive beach vacation sounds so nice right about now. We also will likely be avoiding the US for the remainder of the year


----------



## starvenger

hdrolfe said:


> I am wondering if Canada will open to other areas before the US. I just would like to head south this winter  Doesn't have to be to the US or even on a cruise, we've never done an all inclusive so I'd be open to that depending on where and how things are going. I think I will be avoiding the US until after the election and then we'll see.


I can see that happening. I really would like to get away somewhere, because that would at least make things feel like they're getting back to normal. But of course I don't want to rush things.


----------



## bcwife76

hdrolfe said:


> I am wondering if Canada will open to other areas before the US. I just would like to head south this winter  Doesn't have to be to the US or even on a cruise, we've never done an all inclusive so I'd be open to that depending on where and how things are going. I think I will be avoiding the US until after the election and then we'll see.


I would really love this to be the case. My dh wants us to go away in October for a week at an all inclusive (usually we go to Mexico but at this point I'm open to any destination with an all inclusive). That 14 day quarantine though man.....ugh.


----------



## badiggio

wdwmom3 said:


> Yes I know what type of insurance you are talking about.  And they still play games around covering things.


They sure do and you don't want to be the one to find out.Sunlife,for one,has been on Marketplace.


----------



## Lizardsoccernut

badiggio said:


> They sure do and you don't want to be the one to find out.Sunlife,for one,has been on Marketplace.


In most cases people just weren't aware of what's excluded in their policy: pre-existing conditions, medical conditions that are not considered stable, etc. Like with anything, it is very important to read your policy wording to know exactly what you are covered and not covered for. The onus is on you to do the research to protect yourself, and not on anyone else. I have and I'm confident my policy will respond should I get sick while traveling. If you're not confident, don't travel. 

Since the air border is already open to many countries like Europe and Mexico, I think we'll see greater travel this winter to destinations other than the US until people feel more confident traveling there. Cancun is already opening up so that's my goal for October!


----------



## Kaadk

hdrolfe said:


> I am wondering if Canada will open to other areas before the US. I just would like to head south this winter  Doesn't have to be to the US or even on a cruise, we've never done an all inclusive so I'd be open to that depending on where and how things are going. I think I will be avoiding the US until after the election and then we'll see.





22Tink said:


> I was thinking the same. A relaxing all inclusive beach vacation sounds so nice right about now. We also will likely be avoiding the US for the remainder of the year





starvenger said:


> I can see that happening. I really would like to get away somewhere, because that would at least make things feel like they're getting back to normal. But of course I don't want to rush things.





bcwife76 said:


> I would really love this to be the case. My dh wants us to go away in October for a week at an all inclusive (usually we go to Mexico but at this point I'm open to any destination with an all inclusive). That 14 day quarantine though man.....ugh.


The problem is if they're also open to other countries in that county.  If an all inclusive in Cancun opens to Canadians, there's a good chance that it also opens to Americans, so you'd end up spending your vacation surrounded by Americans anyways.


----------



## wdwmom3

Lizardsoccernut said:


> In most cases people just weren't aware of what's excluded in their policy: pre-existing conditions, medical conditions that are not considered stable, etc. Like with anything, it is very important to read your policy wording to know exactly what you are covered and not covered for. The onus is on you to do the research to protect yourself, and not on anyone else. I have and I'm confident my policy will respond should I get sick while traveling. If you're not confident, don't travel.
> 
> Since the air border is already open to many countries like Europe and Mexico, I think we'll see greater travel this winter to destinations other than the US until people feel more confident traveling there. Cancun is already opening up so that's my goal for October!



I’m sorry but no it’s not always people not reading the policies. There have been cases where insurance companies have refused to cover people because they had a change in medication that is unrelated to their illness while away. Or because they didn’t go to the doctor for headaches they had been having, thinking they weren’t serious.

I know you think that after reading policies you are covered. But unless you get confirmation in writing that you will be covered for covid, and during a travel advisory I wouldn’t count on it.


----------



## wdwmom3

Kaadk said:


> The problem is if they're also open to other countries in that county.  If an all inclusive in Cancun opens to Canadians, there's a good chance that it also opens to Americans, so you'd end up spending your vacation surrounded by Americans anyways.



You could go to Cuba.  Not many Americans there.


----------



## ottawamom

The US may be shut to us but Europe just opened up

"Citizens from the following countries will be allowed into the EU's 27 members and four other nations in Europe's visa-free Schengen travel zone: Algeria, Australia, Canada, Georgia, Japan, Montenegro, Morocco, New Zealand, Rwanda, Serbia, South Korea, Thailand, Tunisia and Uruguay. "

Europe opens borders


----------



## Lizardsoccernut

wdwmom3 said:


> I’m sorry but no it’s not always people not reading the policies. There have been cases where insurance companies have refused to cover people because they had a change in medication that is unrelated to their illness while away. Or because they didn’t go to the doctor for headaches they had been having, thinking they weren’t serious.
> 
> I know you think that after reading policies you are covered. But unless you get confirmation in writing that you will be covered for covid, and during a travel advisory I wouldn’t count on it.


But that is exactly what I mean: meds change and therefore it's not a stable event. That is disclosed in the policy wording. People just didn't understanding the wording. 

And I do have it in writing, as previously mentioned in another post. Both related to COVID and travel advisories. I'm lucky enough to be covered by my group plan, though all 3 major group plans are providing coverage. So I will be counting on it. Helps that I'm an insurance broker, so it is my wheelhouse, so to speak


----------



## hdrolfe

ottawamom said:


> The US may be shut to us but Europe just opened up
> 
> "Citizens from the following countries will be allowed into the EU's 27 members and four other nations in Europe's visa-free Schengen travel zone: Algeria, Australia, Canada, Georgia, Japan, Montenegro, Morocco, New Zealand, Rwanda, Serbia, South Korea, Thailand, Tunisia and Uruguay. "
> 
> Europe opens borders



And is closed to the US. I have never really looked into a European vacation. Perhaps I will consider it.


----------



## Candycane83

ottawamom said:


> The US may be shut to us but Europe just opened up
> 
> "Citizens from the following countries will be allowed into the EU's 27 members and four other nations in Europe's visa-free Schengen travel zone: Algeria, Australia, Canada, Georgia, Japan, Montenegro, Morocco, New Zealand, Rwanda, Serbia, South Korea, Thailand, Tunisia and Uruguay. "
> 
> Europe opens borders


Wow I’m surprised they are already open. I didn’t see anything about quarantine for 14 days either...


----------



## Donald - my hero

Candycane83 said:


> Wow I’m surprised they are already open. I didn’t see anything about quarantine for 14 days either...


*However, our borders are still closed for international travelers coming here until July 31st AND the 14 day quarantine upon return has been extended for us.*


----------



## ottawamom

Still not going anywhere. The furthest I'm going to get this summer is the grocery store.


----------



## TammyLynn33

wdwmom3 said:


> If your ex breaks quarantine just report them. I think people can be fined.



That would make coparenting for the next 14 years  worse than it is now. If god forbid he gets to Toronto I will in writing send my stern warning letter that he won’t be seeing the kids and then if he wants to hold it against me in a court room .. then I’m not the problem


----------



## TammyLynn33

hdrolfe said:


> And is closed to the US. I have never really looked into a European vacation. Perhaps I will consider it.


 My concern would be if god forbid another outbreak and they tell you to come home like they did and the nightmare of finding flights etc.  As bad as I want to go away if I can’t drive home right now I won’t consider it


----------



## wdwmom3

TammyLynn33 said:


> My concern would be if god forbid another outbreak and they tell you to come home like they did and the nightmare of finding flights etc.  As bad as I want to go away if I can’t drive home right now I won’t consider it



Agreed! This is one of the reasons we cancelled our March a few days before they announced schools closing, and Disney closing. Things were changing so fast that we didn’t want to be there a have things start to shut down.

My daughter and I were talking about that the other day.  It was crazy how quickly things changed.  We went from planning to go and actually starting to pack, to a few days later cancelling.  Then we heard schools were closing etc.


----------



## bcwife76

So while the ban on international travelers was extended to July 31st, the mandatory quaratine act is still in place until August 31st. Why do they expire at different times? If he's lifting the ban on July 31st (which I doubt but just go with me....) who is going to come as long as their is a mandatory quarantine in place? I find that odd.....


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Yes, but Americans ALSO travel to Mexico. They are there right now at all inclusives.  I'm on the tripadvisor forums for Mexico, Jamaica and Punta Cana and Mexico by far is the most lenient on letting just anyone in their country.


----------



## bcwife76

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> Yes, but Americans ALSO travel to Mexico. They are there right now at all inclusives.  I'm on the tripadvisor forums for Mexico, Jamaica and Punta Cana and Mexico by far is the most lenient on letting just anyone in their country.


I never really considered Cuba before now I might if we want an all inclusive ...


----------



## ORD2KOA

bcwife76 said:


> I never really considered Cuba before now I might if we want an all inclusive ...



But you wouldn't want to get sick in Cuba.


----------



## tinkerone

I'm going to just delete this.  Sorry.


----------



## momof2gr8kids

bcwife76 said:


> So while the ban on international travelers was extended to July 31st, the mandatory quaratine act is still in place until August 31st. Why do they expire at different times? If he's lifting the ban on July 31st (which I doubt but just go with me....) who is going to come as long as their is a mandatory quarantine in place? I find that odd.....


There are still Canadians stuck in other countries that could return.  Immediate family members that aren't Canadian that want to come here would have to quarrantine, etc.  Those people wouldn't be banned as international travelers.


----------



## bcwife76

ORD2KOA said:


> But you wouldn't want to get sick in Cuba.


Right now I wouldn't want to get sick anywhere outside of BC!


----------



## TammyLynn33

bcwife76 said:


> So while the ban on international travelers was extended to July 31st, the mandatory quaratine act is still in place until August 31st. Why do they expire at different times? If he's lifting the ban on July 31st (which I doubt but just go with me....) who is going to come as long as their is a mandatory quarantine in place? I find that odd.....



i wonder of its easier to do the mandatory quarantine less often as it’s probably a public health mandate .  I wonder if it’s simply a red-tape issue


----------



## stfxkid

ORD2KOA said:


> But you wouldn't want to get sick in Cuba.


Why they have a world class health system.


----------



## ORD2KOA

If that's true, great.


----------



## wdwmom3

Florida reported over 11,000 new  cases today


----------



## Reepicheep

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I've thrown in the towel and have cancelled our Aug 1-15 trip to Disney World.  Swoop is still only offering flight credits and not refunds, but I've read reports of Canadians successfully being reimbursed by their credit card companies for Swoop fares, so I'll give that a try (I didn't cancel my flights, Swoop did, so since Swoop failed to provide a promised service I think I can present a strong argument to TD Bank that a refund of my credit card transactions is in order).

To put the current Canada vs. US coronavirus situation into perspective, on July 2 and 3 there were *112,136* new cases in the *US*, whereas as of July 3rd *Canada* has had a* total of 105,091 cases*. There is not a chance of the Canada/US border opening by August 1st.

It's hard to believe now, but back in the middle of March I assured my daughter that coronavirus would be under control within 4 to 6 weeks, and that she'd be able to fly to Orlando in early May as scheduled for her Disney World summer job.


----------



## wdwmom3

Reepicheep said:


> As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I've thrown in the towel and have cancelled our Aug 1-15 trip to Disney World.  Swoop is still only offering flight credits and not refunds, but I've read reports of Canadians successfully being reimbursed by their credit card companies for Swoop fares, so I'll give that a try (I didn't cancel my flights, Swoop did, so since Swoop failed to provide a promised service I think I can present a strong argument to TD Bank that a refund of my credit card transactions is in order).
> 
> To put the current Canada vs. US coronavirus situation into perspective, on July 2 and 3 there were *112,136* new cases in the *US*, whereas as of July 3rd *Canada* has had a* total of 105,091 cases*. There is not a chance of the Canada/US border opening by August 1st.
> 
> It's hard to believe now, but back in the middle of March I assured my daughter that coronavirus would be under control within 4 to 6 weeks, and that she'd be able to fly to Orlando in early May as scheduled for her Disney World summer job.



I know how you feel. Back in March I was telling my kids our trip would just be postponed until the summer.

The cases are crazy.  I know people like go on about the low death rate.  But say the death rate is 1% that’s over 100 people a day.


----------



## Sue M

pigletto said:


> Check out this CBC marketplace study to see how clean these planes were pre pandemic...
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/flights-filthy-surfaces-airplane-marketplace-1.4873586
> I‘m not sure they could do enough to convince me they could keep those planes clean right now .. and certainly not by dropping the middle seat restrictions.
> 
> Canadian airlines operate with very low margins and need those seats filled to be viable, which I understand.  Hopefully people don’t mistake that to mean that it’s safer than it was .


Yuck. And this is why I’ve carried antibacterial wipes on board for years to wipe down everything.  People used to give me odd looks!


----------



## Sue M

wdwmom3 said:


> I know how you feel. Back in March I was telling my kids our trip would just be postponed until the summer.
> 
> The cases are crazy.  I know people like go on about the low death rate.  But say the death rate is 1% that’s over 100 people a day.


And death rate doesn’t tell the entire story. Many people don’t recover 100% and have lasting issues from Covid. permanent lung scaring, cognitive issues, etc.


----------



## Sue M

bcwife76 said:


> I would really love this to be the case. My dh wants us to go away in October for a week at an all inclusive (usually we go to Mexico but at this point I'm open to any destination with an all inclusive). That 14 day quarantine though man.....ugh.


Mexico isn’t doing well right now either.  We have a friend who lives in Puerto Vallarta.  We were just there in Feb. I wouldn’t go near it now.


----------



## Sue M

Sadly canceled our Aug 2-14 WDW trip. Had CBR booked. We were really looking forward to Skyliner.   TA modified res for Aug 2021. I canceled flights the other day, just made it feel more real  we were booked on Alaska and had a choice of refund or money deposited to wallet. I chose refund to my cc. We were planning to drive to SeaTac to pick up flight. I got refund because Alaska changed my flight times.
I have Universal booked for late Nov/early Dec. with a friend from California. I am hoping there’s still time for the US to get serious and lower numbers.  But if not there’s another trip down the drain. 
I can’t see Canada opening borders until the US gets this virus under control. And they probably won’t until they start listening to science and the doctors. Sad so many people are dying there.


----------



## wdwmom3

Sue M said:


> And death rate doesn’t tell the entire story. Many people don’t recover 100% and have lasting issues from Covid. permanent lung scaring, cognitive issues, etc.



Exactly.  I agree it’s actually much worse. So just thinking of the number of people out of that 11,000 a day that will be sick for a long time is just terrible.


----------



## AngelDisney

Sue M said:


> Yuck. And this is why I’ve carried antibacterial wipes on board for years to wipe down everything.  People used to give me odd looks!


Same experiences here! I had to wipe down as discreetly and as fast as I could.


----------



## Pkltm

We have cancelled September 5-12, we have November hotel booked but no flights, probably will canacel We have swoop credit but I would prefer a refund. Has anyone had any  luck with Swoop?

We are asking for refunds on our AP.

We have a cruise next Feb, I am hopeful for this one....maybe


----------



## Maddysdaddy

Sue M said:


> I have Universal booked for late Nov/early Dec. with a friend from California. I am hoping there’s still time for the US to get serious and lower numbers.  But if not there’s another trip down the drain.



Pretty sure Covid might be last on the list of the many worries you should have with respect to travelling down to the U.S. in late November.  Just sayin’...


----------



## wdwmom3

Ok I may have misheard this.  So sorry if it’s not true.  But it sounds like the recent cases in PEI have been traced back to someone who travelled to another province who visited with someone who had been in the US.  This makes me mad.  Was the person not under quarantine?

This is why we have to keep the borders closed!!


----------



## damo

I'd love to hear the reason why this couple was allowed to enter Canada ... https://www.cp24.com/news/police-ch...canada-s-mandatory-quarantine-order-1.5011631


IMO, that fine is too low.  Hopefully they are now barred from ever entering Canada again.


----------



## momof2gr8kids

damo said:


> I'd love to hear the reason why this couple was allowed to enter Canada ... https://www.cp24.com/news/police-ch...canada-s-mandatory-quarantine-order-1.5011631
> 
> 
> IMO, that fine is too low.  Hopefully they are now barred from ever entering Canada again.


They could be immediate family to someone in Canada.  They could have dual citizenship.  They could be resort owners that are allowed to cross only to open up their business.  Either way, any of the people that are allowed to come in (and it is a limited list) have to quarantine.  At least they are being monitored, and caught.  There were a couple of others that were charged as well a couple of weeks back in that area. 
The border is closed to non discretionary travel - they aren't letting property owners cross to check on their camps, they aren't letting them cross by boat, even if they don't step on land other than their own.   So, although everyone's reaction is how they heck did they get across, they obviously had a valid reason for crossing or they wouldn't have been allowed.


----------



## damo

momof2gr8kids said:


> They could be immediate family to someone in Canada.  They could have dual citizenship.  They could be resort owners that are allowed to cross only to open up their business.  Either way, any of the people that are allowed to come in (and it is a limited list) have to quarantine.  At least they are being monitored, and caught.  There were a couple of others that were charged as well a couple of weeks back in that area.
> The border is closed to non discretionary travel - they aren't letting property owners cross to check on their camps, they aren't letting them cross by boat, even if they don't step on land other than their own.   So, although everyone's reaction is how they heck did they get across, they obviously had a valid reason for crossing or they wouldn't have been allowed.



That's why I said I'd love to hear the reason.  It must have been good enough to get them into the country but if their reason is respectful, they should be also.


----------



## momof2gr8kids

damo said:


> That's why I said I'd love to hear the reason.  It must have been good enough to get them into the country but if their reason is respectful, they should be also.


And considering grocery delivery services, or if they were crossing because they were immediate family members, their family could have shopped.  Or resort owner - their Canadian employees could have shopped.
They don't have to just give a reason - they have to provide documentation.  I've had a lot of complaints about people thinking they should be allowed in but can't provide documention the border agents are asking for and think it's ridiculous.  So I know just anyone isn't getting across.


----------



## hdrolfe

CBC had an article about people who are in Canada who drive with US plates for various legit reasons and are getting harassed. Perhaps they should have some kind of sticker for them, or for those who are supposed to be passing through (to Alaska I believe?) so people don't harass those legitimatly here, and can avoid those who shouldn't be stopping. I am glad to know people are being turned away who shouldn't be here though. As much as I want to go back to Disney or on a cruise, I'll wait (mostly patiently) until it's safe to do so.


----------



## Jrb1979

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-americans-fined-ontario-police-a9602796.html
Good to see them enforcing the rules.


----------



## Retro Magic

We're booked September 7-21st at Polynesian. If we can fly I'm still happy to go as I feel safe there. But I suppose we'll have to wait and see how things go. Things seem to change daily.


----------



## stfxkid

Jrb1979 said:


> https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-americans-fined-ontario-police-a9602796.html
> Good to see them enforcing the rules.


Should have hit them with the maximum penalty.

"Penalties under the Quarantine Act include six months in prison or a fine of up to $750,000, which could go up to $1 million if the person caused death or bodily harm by wilfully and recklessly breaking the rules. " https://toronto.citynews.ca/2020/07...nada-fined-1000-for-violating-quarantine-act/


----------



## Silvermist999

What is interesting to me is that the Jays flew into Toronto to start training and checked into the Toronto Marriott hotel last night.  Are they also required to self-isolate for 14 days especially having just returned from Florida?


----------



## Jrb1979

Silvermist999 said:


> What is interesting to me is that the Jays flew into Toronto to start training and checked into the Toronto Marriott hotel last night.  Are they also required to self-isolate for 14 days especially having just returned from Florida?


As I have heard they have to self-isolate for the 14 days before they can start training


----------



## Iralyn

Silvermist999 said:


> What is interesting to me is that the Jays flew into Toronto to start training and checked into the Toronto Marriott hotel last night.  Are they also required to self-isolate for 14 days especially having just returned from Florida?



I believe they have been allowed a self-isolation 'bubble'.  They must stay at the hotel that is attached to the Rogers Centre but are allowed to interact with other players and coaches and workout at the Rogers Centre but are not allowed to go out into the community at all.  It seems to me that there is potential for some community leaks with local workers they will presumably be interacting with during this time but hopefully all will be well.  I hope that they only do training camp and do not allow other teams to enter Canada to play against them.


----------



## wdwmom3

Silvermist999 said:


> What is interesting to me is that the Jays flew into Toronto to start training and checked into the Toronto Marriott hotel last night.  Are they also required to self-isolate for 14 days especially having just returned from Florida?



I believe they will be isolating.  Only going in the hotel and the dome for training.  But they were also all tested and they will continue to be tested.


----------



## mshanson3121

wdwmom3 said:


> Ok I may have misheard this.  So sorry if it’s not true.  But it sounds like the recent cases in PEI have been traced back to someone who travelled to another province who visited with someone who had been in the US.  This makes me mad.  Was the person not under quarantine?
> 
> This is why we have to keep the borders closed!!



From CBC:

*Cluster tied to Nova Scotia travel*

The starting point of the outbreak was a man in his 20s who had travelled to Nova Scotia and appears to have contracted COVID-19 from someone there who had recently been in the U.S.

The person who had been to the U.S. was travelling on a student visa and was on his way to P.E.I., Nova Scotia Premier Stephen McNeil said in a news briefing Monday afternoon. However, he said the man was denied entry at the Confederation Bridge because he did not have the required pre-screening approval.

McNeil said the man flew from the United States to Toronto, then transferred to a flight to Halifax. Under the circumstances, he was supposed to self-isolate but did not.


And this is the danger of asymptomatic cases - one man, has infected those 5 people (and that number will of course likely end up higher) and has over 10 other people (close contacts of the 5) in self-isolation for 14 days. Or, again, we can look at the outbreak in Campbellton - almost 30 people infected and two deaths, because of one man. This is why masks are so important, and they're calling to make them legally mandatory across Canada in ALL public space, and this is why Disney (and any other similar venue) is so risky. And, this is why I hope they do not open the US border any time this year.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Has anyone here cancelled their Air Canada booking online themselves?  The website says:

_If you booked directly with Air Canada (including aircanada.com, the Air Canada Mobile App, and our Contact Centres) or Kayak, Google Flights, and Skyscanner, you can convert your booking by visiting Manage My Booking._

I just don't want to completely screw it up and not get my travel vouchers!


----------



## hdrolfe

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> Has anyone here cancelled their Air Canada booking online themselves?  The website says:
> 
> _If you booked directly with Air Canada (including aircanada.com, the Air Canada Mobile App, and our Contact Centres) or Kayak, Google Flights, and Skyscanner, you can convert your booking by visiting Manage My Booking._
> 
> I just don't want to completely screw it up and not get my travel vouchers!



So here's the thing. You can call, and wait a long time to get through, in order to cancel right off the bat. Or you can do the online way and if it works, fabulous! And if it doesn't, you have to call and wait a long time to get through. Personally, I'd do it online and see what happens before I call. But I also hate calling places when there is an online version.


----------



## Kaadk

stfxkid said:


> Should have hit them with the maximum penalty.
> 
> "Penalties under the Quarantine Act include six months in prison or a fine of up to $750,000, which could go up to $1 million if the person caused death or bodily harm by wilfully and recklessly breaking the rules. " https://toronto.citynews.ca/2020/07...nada-fined-1000-for-violating-quarantine-act/


I can't seem to find the relevant article now, but the one that I read wasn't as harsh on the couple.  According to it, the stops they did were at places like a grocery store.  Yes, they shouldn't have stopped,  and yes, they should be fined for stopping, but throwing a pair of senior citizens in jail for making a few mistakes is a bit of overkill.  After all, it's not the same thing as the Banff situation where the tourists were purposely flouting the rules.  Those in the Banff situation I could say should have the book thrown at them, but this couple just made a few mistakes.  Potentially life threatening mistakes if they were carriers, but still, mistakes none the less.


----------



## tinkerone

Kaadk said:


> I can't seem to find the relevant article now, but the one that I read wasn't as harsh on the couple.  According to it, the stops they did were at places like a grocery store.  Yes, they shouldn't have stopped,  and yes, they should be fined for stopping, but throwing a pair of senior citizens in jail for making a few mistakes is a bit of overkill.  After all, it's not the same thing as the Banff situation where the tourists were purposely flouting the rules.  Those in the Banff situation I could say should have the book thrown at them, but this couple just made a few mistakes.  Potentially life threatening mistakes if they were carriers, but still, mistakes none the less.


Sorry but I'm not in total agreement with this.  'Stops' indicate more than one.  You certainly don't need to stop at more than one grocery store.  They knew the rules coming in and decided to disobey.  Doesn't really matter that they are seniors, if they committed murder (which actually this could be) it would not matter that they are seniors.   That's not an excuse. 
No matter how you look at it, by knowing the rules and saying yes they would obey to enter the country, they are indeed fluting the rules.  They are putting us at risk for their own enjoyment.  That's not okay.  
JMO only.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

As seniors, they should be even MORE aware of their actions as people are trying to protect them from getting sick as they are supposedly in the more effected category.


----------



## mshanson3121

Kaadk said:


> I can't seem to find the relevant article now, but the one that I read wasn't as harsh on the couple.  According to it, the stops they did were at places like a grocery store.  Yes, they shouldn't have stopped,  and yes, they should be fined for stopping, but throwing a pair of senior citizens in jail for making a few mistakes is a bit of overkill.  After all, it's not the same thing as the Banff situation where the tourists were purposely flouting the rules.  Those in the Banff situation I could say should have the book thrown at them, but this couple just made a few mistakes.  Potentially life threatening mistakes if they were carriers, but still, mistakes none the less.





tinkerone said:


> Sorry but I'm not in total agreement with this.  'Stops' indicate more than one.  You certainly don't need to stop at more than one grocery store.  They knew the rules coming in and decided to disobey.  Doesn't really matter that they are seniors, if they committed murder (which actually this could be) it would not matter that they are seniors.   That's not an excuse.
> No matter how you look at it, by knowing the rules and saying yes they would obey to enter the country, they are indeed fluting the rules.  They are putting us at risk for their own enjoyment.  That's not okay.
> JMO only.



What Tinkerone said, 100%. Their age is no excuse. A senior citizen drives drunk and kills someone - do we excuse them just because they're 65 years old? I assure you, 65 year-olds are still perfectly capable of knowing and following the laws. And in this case - they not only knew the law, they purposely chose to ignore it. The law in Canada is, when you're travelling and you're obligated to self-quarantine, you are not allowed ANY stops.


----------



## Kaadk

tinkerone said:


> Sorry but I'm not in total agreement with this.  'Stops' indicate more than one.  You certainly don't need to stop at more than one grocery store.  They knew the rules coming in and decided to disobey.  Doesn't really matter that they are seniors, if they committed murder (which actually this could be) it would not matter that they are seniors.   That's not an excuse.
> No matter how you look at it, by knowing the rules and saying yes they would obey to enter the country, they are indeed fluting the rules.  They are putting us at risk *for their own enjoyment*.  That's not okay.
> JMO only.


I agree they broke the rules, I agree that it isn't excusable.  I believe they should have been fined.  I just don't agree with the post I was responding to that said they should have been given the maximum penalty.  None of the articles I've read about the situation indicate it was "for their own enjoyment" as you mentioned.  Those stops could have just as easily been for groceries, gas, and some take out.  Course, I don't know for sure what those stops actually were, but, I could easily see them not understanding the rules about "straight to your destination" to really mean "straight to your destination, with no stops for anything, what so ever."  

In the Banff situation, yes, it was "for their own enjoyment", admitted as such by their own words and as such, those people should have been given the maximum penalty.  But with these people, there's no proof they were stopping "for their own enjoyment" and as such, I was rebutting against the post that said they should have received the maximum.  They probably should have been charged more than they were, just not as harsh as 'the maximum' as suggested, without knowing the whole story.


----------



## tinkerone

Kaadk said:


> I agree they broke the rules, I agree that it isn't excusable.  I believe they should have been fined.  I just don't agree with the post I was responding to that said they should have been given the maximum penalty.  None of the articles I've read about the situation indicate it was "for their own enjoyment" as you mentioned.  Those stops could have just as easily been for groceries, gas, and some take out.  Course, I don't know for sure what those stops actually were, but,* I could easily see them not understanding the rules about "straight to your destination" to really mean "straight to your destination, with no stops for anything, what so ever." *
> 
> In the Banff situation, yes, it was "for their own enjoyment", admitted as such by their own words and as such, those people should have been given the maximum penalty.  But with these people, there's no proof they were stopping "for their own enjoyment" and as such, I was rebutting against the post that said they should have received the maximum.  They probably should have been charged more than they were, just not as harsh as 'the maximum' as suggested, without knowing the whole story.


As quoted in the article I read "*Along with other stipulations*, the two were instructed by the Canada Border Services Agency to drive directly to their destination and remain there for 14 days *without delay*".  Pretty clear and if they weren't actually clear at that point then they should have questioned what 'straight to your destination' meant.  Article is http://www.netnewsledger.com/2020/0...n-fort-frances-with-violating-quarantine-act/

I'm not saying they should get the max but I certainly don't see why they shouldn't either.  Maybe a few news articles stating that Americans were fined $750,000 would help them understand what driving directly to their destination means.  There is no excuse, period.  And yes, if they made any stops after stating to customs that they wouldn't then they are stopping for their own enjoyment.  

Lets agree to disagree.


----------



## wdwmom3

tinkerone said:


> As quoted in the article I read "*Along with other stipulations*, the two were instructed by the Canada Border Services Agency to drive directly to their destination and remain there for 14 days *without delay*".  Pretty clear and if they weren't actually clear at that point then they should have questioned what 'straight to your destination' meant.  Article is http://www.netnewsledger.com/2020/0...n-fort-frances-with-violating-quarantine-act/
> 
> I'm not saying they should get the max but I certainly don't see why they shouldn't either.  Maybe a few news articles stating that Americans were fined $750,000 would help them understand what driving directly to their destination means.  There is no excuse, period.  And yes, if they made any stops after stating to customs that they wouldn't then they are stopping for their own enjoyment.
> 
> Lets agree to disagree.



I don’t think they should be thrown in jail. But I do agree with a high fine, maybe $2500 each. And they should be flagged by customs and possibly refused entry in the future since they disobeyed the instructions given by customs.

I think it will just take a handful of people paying larger fines and possibly being banned from entry in the future, would do a lot to stop other people from ignoring the rules.

I’m sorry there is no excuse for what they did considering they were told exactly what they had to do.


----------



## Best_Vacation_EVER!

wdwmom3 said:


> I don’t think they should be thrown in jail. But I do agree with a high fine, maybe $2500 each. And they should be flagged by customs and possibly refused entry in the future since they disobeyed the instructions given by customs.
> 
> I think it will just take a handful of people paying larger fines and possibly being banned from entry in the future, would do a lot to stop other people from ignoring the rules.
> 
> I’m sorry there is no excuse for what they did considering they were told exactly what they had to do.



Agree with this totally.   Canada has followed the shelter in place, wearing masks and waiting in lines, business losses, job losses, etc...  The cost to Canadians financially, socially, etc... has been high but for the most part we've done what needed to be done.   I have zero sympathy for those who come to the country and can't respect our quarantine rules --- I don't care if you're 20 or 60 or older -- if the terms of entry to Canada were to quarantine and you don't -- you shouldn't be allowed back.   Which other rules/laws are you going to pick and choose to respect while you're here?


----------



## Pumpkin1172

wdwmom3 said:


> I don’t think they should be thrown in jail. But I do agree with a high fine, maybe $2500 each. And they should be flagged by customs and possibly refused entry in the future since they disobeyed the instructions given by customs.


I think the fines should be 5,000 - 10,000 per person.  It will make them take notice and rethink their travel plans. 

We have sacrificed lots in doing our part to flatten the curve.  All our governments acted immediately when they seen new cases start to rise even in the slightest.  They traced and tracked people to know where it was and how it is spreading.  I'm not even sure how the US can trace and track anymore when you have 11,000+ new cases  in one state in a day!!!!   When you think of the population density it isn't a huge number because there are way more people in the US than  Canada.  But I still don't want to see how much more their numbers will climb in the next 2-3 months


----------



## wdwmom3

Pumpkin1172 said:


> I think the fines should be 5,000 - 10,000 per person.  It will make them take notice and rethink their travel plans.
> 
> We have sacrificed lots in doing our part to flatten the curve.  All our governments acted immediately when they seen new cases start to rise even in the slightest.  They traced and tracked people to know where it was and how it is spreading.  I'm not even sure how the US can trace and track anymore when you have 11,000+ new cases  in one state in a day!!!!   When you think of the population density it isn't a huge number because there are way more people in the US than  Canada.  But I still don't want to see how much more their numbers will climb in the next 2-3 months



I think the main thing should be they are denied entry in the future. I would be ok with a $5000 fine. But really these fines may never get paid. Telling someone they can never come back here is a different story. Especially if they have family or friends here.

They can’t trace the contacts when they have that many cases. It’s impossible so it’s just going to get worse. And I’ve been reading on other boards that some places people are now having to wait a week to 10 days for their results because they have so many tests to do. And there are reports of people not even bothering to isolate while waiting for results .

I would like to blame this on the “leadership” or lack there of.  But when you hear stuff like that you can only blame the general public. I think the people who actually take this seriously in the US are now in the minority.


----------



## shameless3

wdwmom3 said:


> I think the main thing should be they are denied entry in the future. I would be ok with a $5000 fine. But really these fines may never get paid. Telling someone they can never come back here is a different story. Especially if they have family or friends here.
> 
> They can’t trace the contacts when they have that many cases. It’s impossible so it’s just going to get worse. And I’ve been reading on other boards that some places people are now having to wait a week to 10 days for their results because they have so many tests to do. And there are reports of people not even bothering to isolate while waiting for results .
> 
> I would like to blame this on the “leadership” or lack there of.  But when you hear stuff like that you can only blame the general public. I think the people who actually take this seriously in the US are now in the minority.




I am in NS where the selfish idiot from the USA was caught not self isolating. This person had spread covid to at least 5 people (who knows who else has it and is currently unaware) before getting caught. I think any person coming from the USA and does not self isolate should be fined a minimum of $10,000 each and deported after fees are paid - not leinancy.

I also don't give any leeway to people travelling in our country. Go directly to your home upon arrival is quite clear. If you can't have groceries delivered to your home somehow, maybe you should reconsider coming for a visit. This also applies to people within Canada coming to the Atlantic bubble  - maybe you should not visit this year if you can't self isolate for two weeks on arrival. We were 3 weeks without a case until people out of province and country showed up here.

I get that people want to visit or travel - so do I. Bit this is a different time and everyone has to adapt for the short term.


----------



## Reepicheep

I just took a look at recent covid statistics, and it is both amazing and horrifying to see how much worse the situation is in the US vs. Canada.  For example, below are the *new covid cases which were reported yesterday* (Tuesday July 7th) in different jurisdictions. (note that different sources give slightly different statistics):

*60,021* - *United States* (*8.8x* the population of Canada) *30x
8,631* - *California * (*1.05x* the population of Canada)* 35x*
*7,347* - *Florida* (*0.6x* the population of Canada) * 50x
1,010 - Orange County, California *(*0.085x* the population of Canada) *50x
361* -* Orange County, Florida *(*0.037x *the population of Canada) *40x
232* - *Canada*

The number in* RED* gives an indication of how much worse the jurisdiction is doing when compared to Canada, taking into account population size.

It would be crazy for Canada to open up the border with the US under the current circumstances.  Trudeau is setting a good example for Canadians by refusing to travel to Washington today for the "new NAFTA" celebration.

Although the opening of Disneyland has been indefinitely delayed, it appears Disney World will be opening as scheduled in three days time.  Not the wisest course of action that Disney could take...


----------



## wdwmom3

Reepicheep said:


> I just took a look at recent covid statistics, and it is both amazing and horrifying to see how much worse the situation is in the US vs. Canada.  For example, below are the *new covid cases which were reported yesterday* (Tuesday July 7th) in different jurisdictions. (note that different sources give slightly different statistics):
> 
> *60,021* - *United States* (*8.8x* the population of Canada) *30x
> 8,631* - *California * (*1.05x* the population of Canada)* 35x*
> *7,347* - *Florida* (*0.6x* the population of Canada) * 50x
> 1,010 - Orange County, California *(*0.085x* the population of Canada) *50x
> 361* -* Orange County, Florida *(*0.037x *the population of Canada) *40x
> 232* - *Canada*
> 
> The number in* RED* gives an indication of how much worse the jurisdiction is doing when compared to Canada, taking into account population size.
> 
> It would be crazy for Canada to open up the border with the US under the current circumstances.  Trudeau is setting a good example for Canadians by refusing to travel to Washington today for the "new NAFTA" celebration.
> 
> Although the opening of Disneyland has been indefinitely delayed, it appears Disney World will be opening as scheduled in three days time.  Not the wisest course of action that Disney could take...



It makes me wonder at what point they will close Disney world again. Do they need to wait until there are no ICU beds or ventilators left and hundreds of people are dead each day in Florida?

Honestly I’m kind of sickened by people going to Disney world right now.


----------



## Reepicheep

wdwmom3 said:


> It makes me wonder at what point they will close Disney world again. Do they need to wait until there are no ICU beds or ventilators left and hundreds of people are dead each day in Florida?



I don't expect the *US Federal* or* Florida State* or *Orange County Florida local* governments to take any significant action within the next few days.  The only hope is that *Disney* will come to the realization that going ahead with the openings is a very bad idea.  As embarrassing as it would be for Disney to cancel the opening at this late date, it would be much more embarrassing to shut down the parks a week after the reopening.

Below is a headline from yesterday which clearly gives the attitude of the Orange County Florida local government:

*"We're managing the virus:" Orange County Mayor sees glimmer of hope in latest COVID-19 data*


----------



## wdwmom3

Reepicheep said:


> I don't expect the *US Federal* or* Florida State* or *Orange County Florida local* governments to take any significant action within the next few days.  The only hope is that *Disney* will come to the realization that going ahead with the openings is a very bad idea.  As embarrassing as it would be for Disney to cancel the opening at this late date, it would be much more embarrassing to shut down the parks a week after the reopening.
> 
> Below is a headline from yesterday which clearly gives the attitude of the Orange County Florida local government:
> 
> *"We're managing the virus:" Orange County Mayor sees glimmer of hope in latest COVID-19 data*


I’m in another group and I see posts about the CM preview how exciting it is.  People talking about their visits in the next couple weeks and how excited they are, planning meet ups etc.

In the same groups people are also posting that they have to get tested because someone they were in contact with has it. People are posting that actually have covid and how crappy they are feeling. People are posting about their kids testing positive and some of these kids have had issues like loss on sense of taste or some trouble breathing. How they have to wait hours to get tested and then up to a week for results .

This is all in the same group. It blows my mind.


----------



## pigletto

wdwmom3 said:


> It makes me wonder at what point they will close Disney world again. Do they need to wait until there are no ICU beds or ventilators left and hundreds of people are dead each day in Florida?
> 
> Honestly I’m kind of sickened by people going to Disney world right now.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...lable-icu-beds-state-data-shows-idUSKBN2482IS
Florida has 17% of its available ICU beds left ... FOR THE ENTIRE STATE. Let that sink in.  I feel like Im in the twilight zone in the other forums these days.

The article above is from Reuters which I like to use because I use a website for media bias checking so that I’m not being fed whatever opinion the left or the right is trying to shove down my throat for the day. Reuters comes up as fairly neutral, and I would highly suggest using this website as a great tool to check the political leanings of news sources ;
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/


----------



## ottawamom

Hopefully everyone here will realize how truly blessed we are to live in this country and STAY HERE! I am shocked by the number (although small) of people who are still heading down into the middle of all that.


----------



## Reepicheep

ottawamom said:


> Hopefully everyone here will realize how truly blessed we are to live in this country and *STAY HERE! *



We live in Edmonton, and I'm trying to come up with a summer holiday of some type we could take.  At this point, I've considered and rejected driving to Calgary, flying to Victoria, and a staycation in Edmonton using hotel points.  

Both my daughters have decided that they want to learn how to drive this summer.  That might be the extent of my summer excitement this year (hopefully, not* TOO* exciting).


----------



## pigletto

Reepicheep said:


> We live in Edmonton, and I'm trying to come up with a summer holiday of some type we could take.  At this point, I've considered and rejected driving to Calgary, flying to Victoria, and a staycation in Edmonton using hotel points.
> 
> Both my daughters have decided that they want to learn how to drive this summer.  That might be the extent of my summer excitement this year (hopefully, not* TOO* exciting).


My son will write his G1 test on Friday and then I too will be in the same boat.  That will provide some excitement for us too.


----------



## 22Tink

Reepicheep said:


> We live in Edmonton, and I'm trying to come up with a summer holiday of some type we could take.  At this point, I've considered and rejected driving to Calgary, flying to Victoria, and a staycation in Edmonton using hotel points.
> 
> Both my daughters have decided that they want to learn how to drive this summer.  That might be the extent of my summer excitement this year (hopefully, not* TOO* exciting).


We've been looking at some form of a summer holiday as well but I think for this year we will likely just stay home, maybe take a couple of day trips to some local lakes.  Aside from trips to the US (obviously not happening anytime soon) we like to pop over to AB for a few days once in awhile but I can't even leave BC right now or I have to quarantine for 14 days before going back to work so that limits us too.  I'm hoping maybe that restriction will change yet this summer.

Good luck with the driving lessons! We've taught 3 kids and still have 1 more to go in a few years. It can definitely be adventurous!


----------



## tlcdoula

Reepicheep said:


> We live in Edmonton, and I'm trying to come up with a summer holiday of some type we could take.  At this point, I've considered and rejected driving to Calgary, flying to Victoria, and a staycation in Edmonton using hotel points.
> 
> Both my daughters have decided that they want to learn how to drive this summer.  That might be the extent of my summer excitement this year (hopefully, not* TOO* exciting).


We are also trying to find some way to do a short vacation somewhere close to home.  We are in BC on Vancouver Island but the prices are through the roof for accommodations.  My husband thinks I am being way paranoid about everything, we only have 3 active cases on Vancouver island right now and have been very lucky in the numbers we are seeing in BC but I am still worried about staying in a hotel etc.  I honestly am always the one who is wiping things down at any hotel and planes etc anyways.  

As much as I want to be at disney I need to see the numbers go down to what we are seeing at home before I would even think about it.  We have 2 trips planned for this year which will have to be cancelled at some point I am sure.  One is late December so I am holding on to every ounce of hope I can for that one.  Even though I know in my heart that it is a slim chance.


----------



## TammyLynn33

wdwmom3 said:


> I’m in another group and I see posts about the CM preview how exciting it is.  People talking about their visits in the next couple weeks and how excited they are, planning meet ups etc.
> 
> In the same groups people are also posting that they have to get tested because someone they were in contact with has it. People are posting that actually have covid and how crappy they are feeling. People are posting about their kids testing positive and some of these kids have had issues like loss on sense of taste or some trouble breathing. How they have to wait hours to get tested and then up to a week for results .
> 
> This is all in the same group. It blows my mind.



Agreed in my DVC group it seems once a day someone is asking how/if they are enforcing the 14 day quarantine from the Tri state area . I don’t understand why you would try to get around a quarantine order. It’s an order to try and control a pandemic .. I just don’t get it.


----------



## tinkerone

TammyLynn33 said:


> Agreed in my DVC group it seems once a day someone is asking how/if they are enforcing the 14 day quarantine from the Tri state area . I don’t understand why you would try to get around a quarantine order. It’s an order to try and control a pandemic .. I just don’t get it.


It's that 'it doesn't apply to me' 'I'm only one person so it's okay' mentality.


----------



## mshanson3121

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/thecurrent...something-miraculous-happens-doctor-1.5641745


----------



## mshanson3121

Quite honestly, my kids have an orthodontist appointment next week in Maine, and... I'm nervous crossing the border for that.


----------



## Maddysdaddy

tlcdoula said:


> We are in BC on Vancouver Island



Isn’t living on Vancouver Island basically a 24/7/365 vacation?  

When I think about taking my family on a domestic vacation, the only place that even comes to mind is the island.

Not that we’re big on summer vacations - since summer in Calgary is so short, why would we spend it somewhere other than our back yard???  If I’m going somewhere, it’ll be in February when it’s -40...


----------



## tlcdoula

Maddysdaddy said:


> Isn’t living on Vancouver Island basically a 24/7/365 vacation?
> 
> When I think about taking my family on a domestic vacation, the only place that even comes to mind is the island.
> 
> Not that we’re big on summer vacations - since summer in Calgary is so short, why would we spend it somewhere other than our back yard???  If I’m going somewhere, it’ll be in February when it’s -40...


 True we are very lucky to live here but the prices this year are insane!! lol.  I am trying to be patient waiting for our summer to come but it is sure taking its time.  Weather was better in March than it is now


----------



## bankr63

tlcdoula said:


> True we are very lucky to live here but the prices this year are insane!! lol.  I am trying to be patient waiting for our summer to come but it is sure taking its time.  Weather was better in March than it is now


Really?  We are dying in the east right now from the heat (not from COVID, but still more in LTCH than anywhere else).  We would be happy to ship some of this back west if you want it.  It must have forgotten to stop as passed across your region!


----------



## Reepicheep

Maddysdaddy said:


> If I’m going somewhere, it’ll be in February when it’s -40...



The nice thing about Southern Alberta winters is that, if it is -40c one day, then the next day it could very well be +5c after a Chinook rolls in.  Although that wind can be annoying. I remember driving in downtown Lethbridge during a windstorm one day many years ago, and seeing sheets of plywood at a construction site being blown three or four stories into the air.


----------



## Maddysdaddy

Reepicheep said:


> The nice thing about Southern Alberta winters is that, if it is -40c one day, then the next day it could very well be +5c after a Chinook rolls in.  Although that wind can be annoying. I remember driving in downtown Lethbridge during a windstorm one day many years ago, and seeing sheets of plywood at a construction site being blown three or four stories into the air.



It could be, but I’d still rather be on a beach. Just sayin’...


----------



## Reepicheep

Maddysdaddy said:


> It could be, but I’d still rather be on a beach. Just sayin’...



I always tell my family and friends that life is something to be tolerated when a person isn't at Disneyland.

**********************

On the topic of the US/Canada border, the following very interesting article talks about how Canadians are responding to a request yesterday by a bi-partisan group of American members of congress who want the border to re-open.

Canadians Say "Keep It" to U.S. Congress Calls for Reopened Border


----------



## mshanson3121

Reepicheep said:


> I always tell my family and friends that life is something to be tolerated when a person isn't at Disneyland.
> 
> **********************
> 
> On the topic of the US/Canada border, the following very interesting article talks about how Canadians are responding to a request yesterday by a bi-partisan group of American members of congress who want the border to re-open.
> 
> Canadians Say "Keep It" to U.S. Congress Calls for Reopened Border



I have yet to find a Canadian who wants to reopen the border.


----------



## Prince John Robin Hood

I'm hoping for a somewhat normal return to school and I don't see that happening if the border reopens.


----------



## csm101

On 680news a group of doctors are lobbing for Jan2021


----------



## Prince John Robin Hood

csm101 said:


> On 680news a group of doctors are lobbing for Jan2021



I'd much rather that we take things month by month but I am by no means a medical expert.


----------



## tlcdoula

bankr63 said:


> Really?  We are dying in the east right now from the heat (not from COVID, but still more in LTCH than anywhere else).  We would be happy to ship some of this back west if you want it.  It must have forgotten to stop as passed across your region!


Please ship it over here I will take the heat!!!!! hahaah


----------



## Frozen2014

mshanson3121 said:


> I have yet to find a Canadian who wants to reopen the border.


I wish the passport offices would open and start processing.  The longer they wait, the more of a backlog.  My son't expires Jan.

Before I was hoping for the border to open...but wow...US is totally out of control.  They need to get it together.  So sadly, the borders need to remain closed.


----------



## hdrolfe

Frozen2014 said:


> I wish the passport offices would open and start processing.  The longer they wait, the more of a backlog.  My son't expires Jan.
> 
> Before I was hoping for the border to open...but wow...US is totally out of control.  They need to get it together.  So sadly, the borders need to remain closed.



My son's expired in December and I had planned to take care of it on March break... didn't happen of course. We can't really go anywhere if they don't open well before. I'm not entirely sure why they can't, surely social distancing should work? Most other government departments/agencies are opening or have.


----------



## mouse575

I agree that the border should remain closed for awhile as long as America is struggling.


----------



## Frozen2014

hdrolfe said:


> My son's expired in December and I had planned to take care of it on March break... didn't happen of course. We can't really go anywhere if they don't open well before. I'm not entirely sure why they can't, surely social distancing should work? Most other government departments/agencies are opening or have.


Same. We were waiting to return from March break before renewing. Our next trip isn't booked until March ...if that one even happens...so we have time. But longer they wait, the worse it will be.


----------



## MamaLema

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> Yes, but Americans ALSO travel to Mexico. They are there right now at all inclusives.  I'm on the tripadvisor forums for Mexico, Jamaica and Punta Cana and Mexico by far is the most lenient on letting just anyone in their country.


And let’s not forget Mexico itself has a lot of cases 7,000+ just from yesterday.


----------



## MamaLema

mshanson3121 said:


> I have yet to find a Canadian who wants to reopen the border.


The biggest worry I have is I don’t trust people to quarantine 14 days...and I also haven’t met anyone who wants border re- opening.


----------



## samsteele

Or visitors' idea of quarantine isn't quarantine. More of a 'how can I fit this into our vacation plans' notion. Neighbours had cousins from Scotland and their kids over for a few days. Overheard neighbours say they were driving to another city to 'quarantine' for a more few days with another household in the family. Umm, no. Quarantine should mean isolate in a hotel room or remote camp or cabin. Not hopscotch spread the virus across the province.


----------



## wdwmom3

samsteele said:


> Or visitors' idea of quarantine isn't quarantine. More of a 'how can I fit this into our vacation plans' notion. Neighbours had cousins from Scotland and their kids over for a few days. Overheard neighbours say they were driving to another city to 'quarantine' for a more few days with another household in the family. Umm, no. Quarantine should mean isolate in a hotel room or remote camp or cabin. Not hopscotch spread the virus across the province.



See I have zero patience for this and would be tempted to report people doing this.


----------



## pigletto

I think the hardest thing for me about this whole situation right now is no ability to travel . I‘ve realized how important it is to me in a number of ways . I plan travel throughout the year as stress relief. If I’ve had a bad day I lose myself in researching a destination or planning an itinerary. I listen to podcasts about travel and all the places I could see while I take my walk every day .
My sister who lives in Tampa  had her baby Thursday night. I can’t wait to get on a plane and go see him when we are able to safely again.

Its so hard to not know when we will be able to move about freely again, see the world , see our loved ones . I don‘t follow these restrictions easily or without hardship. I wrestle with it, I struggle . I’ve been in tears several times since Thursday when my nephew was born realizing how long it could be before I could meet him or hug my sister who is a new mom for the first time.
I say all this because I know without a doubt how hard it is on some people. And it’s so hard to see people just going to Disney or saying ”well theres no restriction on air travel so ...”

I truly believe we have to make the hard choice now, to spare lives , and resources , and get this awful thing over with sooner. It’s the best we can do. People are making way bigger sacrifices than me. I have to remind myself every day.


----------



## ottawamom

Congratulations @pigletto,  I trust your sister is doing well. I too hope our neighbours to the south get their "stuff" together so that we can all get back to enjoying our lives.


----------



## TammyLynn33

pigletto said:


> I think the hardest thing for me about this whole situation right now is no ability to travel . I‘ve realized how important it is to me in a number of ways . I plan travel throughout the year as stress relief. If I’ve had a bad day I lose myself in researching a destination or planning an itinerary. I listen to podcasts about travel and all the places I could see while I take my walk every day .
> My sister who lives in Tampa  had her baby Thursday night. I can’t wait to get on a plane and go see him when we are able to safely again.
> 
> Its so hard to not know when we will be able to move about freely again, see the world , see our loved ones . I don‘t follow these restrictions easily or without hardship. I wrestle with it, I struggle . I’ve been in tears several times since Thursday when my nephew was born realizing how long it could be before I could meet him or hug my sister who is a new mom for the first time.
> I say all this because I know without a doubt how hard it is on some people. And it’s so hard to see people just going to Disney or saying ”well theres no restriction on air travel so ...”
> 
> I truly believe we have to make the hard choice now, to spare lives , and resources , and get this awful thing over with sooner. It’s the best we can do. People are making way bigger sacrifices than me. I have to remind myself every day.



Congrats on the new babe Auntie Pigletto! And yep it’s so hard just the not knowing


----------



## marchingstar

pigletto said:


> I think the hardest thing for me about this whole situation right now is no ability to travel . I‘ve realized how important it is to me in a number of ways . I plan travel throughout the year as stress relief. If I’ve had a bad day I lose myself in researching a destination or planning an itinerary. I listen to podcasts about travel and all the places I could see while I take my walk every day .
> My sister who lives in Tampa  had her baby Thursday night. I can’t wait to get on a plane and go see him when we are able to safely again.
> 
> Its so hard to not know when we will be able to move about freely again, see the world , see our loved ones . I don‘t follow these restrictions easily or without hardship. I wrestle with it, I struggle . I’ve been in tears several times since Thursday when my nephew was born realizing how long it could be before I could meet him or hug my sister who is a new mom for the first time.
> I say all this because I know without a doubt how hard it is on some people. And it’s so hard to see people just going to Disney or saying ”well theres no restriction on air travel so ...”
> 
> I truly believe we have to make the hard choice now, to spare lives , and resources , and get this awful thing over with sooner. It’s the best we can do. People are making way bigger sacrifices than me. I have to remind myself every day.



So many congratulations!! 

I really understand your position...we’re all making sacrifices that are hard for us, and for most of use those sacrifices are nowhere near what they could be. It’s okay to be sad about the things you’re missing and to feel frustrated at the people who believe themselves invincible. 

I hope you get lots of facetime visits with your sister and nephew, and that you’re able to visit as soon as possible, once it’s safe for all of you. In the meantime, I hope they’re doing well in a Florida.


----------



## AngelDisney

pigletto said:


> I think the hardest thing for me about this whole situation right now is no ability to travel . I‘ve realized how important it is to me in a number of ways . I plan travel throughout the year as stress relief. If I’ve had a bad day I lose myself in researching a destination or planning an itinerary. I listen to podcasts about travel and all the places I could see while I take my walk every day .
> My sister who lives in Tampa  had her baby Thursday night. I can’t wait to get on a plane and go see him when we are able to safely again.
> 
> Its so hard to not know when we will be able to move about freely again, see the world , see our loved ones . I don‘t follow these restrictions easily or without hardship. I wrestle with it, I struggle . I’ve been in tears several times since Thursday when my nephew was born realizing how long it could be before I could meet him or hug my sister who is a new mom for the first time.
> I say all this because I know without a doubt how hard it is on some people. And it’s so hard to see people just going to Disney or saying ”well theres no restriction on air travel so ...”
> 
> I truly believe we have to make the hard choice now, to spare lives , and resources , and get this awful thing over with sooner. It’s the best we can do. People are making way bigger sacrifices than me. I have to remind myself every day.



Congrats!



Planning trips is also my way to de-stress! Now I turn to working on my class websites which is not a very effective remedy! I think the uncertainty is adding more stress. I don’t mind not travelling soon but not knowing when and where is hard. Hope you get to meet your Disney nephew soon!!


----------



## 22Tink

pigletto said:


> I think the hardest thing for me about this whole situation right now is no ability to travel . I‘ve realized how important it is to me in a number of ways . I plan travel throughout the year as stress relief. If I’ve had a bad day I lose myself in researching a destination or planning an itinerary. I listen to podcasts about travel and all the places I could see while I take my walk every day .
> My sister who lives in Tampa  had her baby Thursday night. I can’t wait to get on a plane and go see him when we are able to safely again.
> 
> Its so hard to not know when we will be able to move about freely again, see the world , see our loved ones . I don‘t follow these restrictions easily or without hardship. I wrestle with it, I struggle . I’ve been in tears several times since Thursday when my nephew was born realizing how long it could be before I could meet him or hug my sister who is a new mom for the first time.
> I say all this because I know without a doubt how hard it is on some people. And it’s so hard to see people just going to Disney or saying ”well theres no restriction on air travel so ...”
> 
> I truly believe we have to make the hard choice now, to spare lives , and resources , and get this awful thing over with sooner. It’s the best we can do. People are making way bigger sacrifices than me. I have to remind myself every day.


Congratulations on your new little nephew! 

I definitely feel your pain. I also love preparing for our trips as a way to destress and having to cancel our August trip has been so hard. Hopefully we can get through this sooner rather than later so our lives can have some normalcy again.


----------



## bcwife76

@pigletto  congrats auntie!!! I hope and pray that you will soon be able to snuggle that beautiful new baby!


----------



## pigletto

Thank you so much everyone ! That sweet little boy is such a blessing. I just can’t wait to meet him . But FaceTime will do for now .


----------



## juniorbugman

@pigletto Maybe you could find him a cute Canadian outfit and send it down to your Sister so she can have a piece of Canada with her.


----------



## mort1331

mshanson3121 said:


> Quite honestly, my kids have an orthodontist appointment next week in Maine, and... I'm nervous crossing the border for that.


Umm..wife wife works in that field..they can go without the appointment for some time..even with a broken bracket...do you really think its worth the risk...not


----------



## mshanson3121

mort1331 said:


> Umm..wife wife works in that field..they can go without the appointment for some time..even with a broken bracket...do you really think its worth the risk...not



I wasn't worried about as worried about contracting as much as just crossing the border I guess - the hassle etc... The area where their appointment is has only had 24 cases since this started. So realistically, there is absolutely no more risk going to their orthodontist appointment there, than there is here. That said, there is still a slight... I don't even know what the word is I'm looking for. But, an unpleasant feeling with just the very idea of stepping foot onto US soil with things as they are currently.

But all moot, we're not going - I was under the impression that medical appointments were exempt from the 14 day isolation, however they deemed orthodontics as non-essential so... we're up the proverbial creek until the border re-opens. Which means finding a new orthodontist unfortunately.


----------



## Starwind

mshanson3121 said:


> But all moot, we're not going - I was under the impression that medical appointments were exempt from the 14 day isolation, however they deemed orthodontics as non-essential so... we're up the proverbial creek until the border re-opens. Which means finding a new orthodontist unfortunately.



The only people who are exempt from the 14 day isolation requirement when entering Canada are certain essential workers providing specified critical services. The exemptions are listed here: https://www.canada.ca/en/public-hea...infection/latest-travel-health-advice.html#a3 If exempt they are required to practice physical distancing and self monitor.


----------



## mshanson3121

Starwind said:


> The only people who are exempt from the 14 day isolation requirement when entering Canada are certain essential workers providing specified critical services. The exemptions are listed here: https://www.canada.ca/en/public-hea...infection/latest-travel-health-advice.html#a3 If exempt they are required to practice physical distancing and self monitor.



Medical travel is exempt (from the website):

[Persons who] have to cross the border to provide or *receive* *essential services *

Many people have gone state side for medical. No quarantine required.


----------



## mort1331

Starwind said:


> The only people who are exempt from the 14 day isolation requirement when entering Canada are certain essential workers providing specified critical services. The exemptions are listed here: https://www.canada.ca/en/public-hea...infection/latest-travel-health-advice.html#a3 If exempt they are required to practice physical distancing and self monitor.


True. And what is not on there is me..I work in Funeral Services, kind of essential. We still transport across border, but we are required to go straight to the home across the boarder, no stopping, and turn around right away. Lets say we make sure fuel filled, and no coffee before crossing is very important.


----------



## mshanson3121

mort1331 said:


> True. And what is not on there is me..I work in Funeral Services, kind of essential. We still transport across border, but we are required to go straight to the home across the boarder, no stopping, and turn around right away. Lets say we make sure fuel filled, and no coffee before crossing is very important.



See above. Medical travel IS exempt. Per the website, confirmed twice with CBSA themselves.


----------



## CJK

Has there been any announcement about whether the border closure will continue beyond July?


----------



## gskywalker

Westjet just cancelled all the flights to Orlando till school starts, so that officially cancels our end of August vacation.  Can't believe we have already had 4 Disney vacations cancelled.


----------



## mshanson3121

CJK said:


> Has there been any announcement about whether the border closure will continue beyond July?



Nothing official. But CBC and others have shared articles speculating the border will remain closed until next year. There's no way they're not going to extend it given the state of things currently.


----------



## gskywalker

We kept waiting in case things worked out but I said back in March that I would be shocked if the border was open before the end of the year and especially before school was back in session.  Once school goes back it will eliminate a lot of the discretionary travelling.


----------



## 22Tink

gskywalker said:


> Westjet just cancelled all the flights to Orlando till school starts, so that officially cancels our end of August vacation.  Can't believe we have already had 4 Disney vacations cancelled.


I just saw that they cancelled my flights to California as well. They didn't notify me, I just happened to check my WestJet app. I'm not seeing a travel bank or credit to my visa. I'm currently on hold with them but thought I'd see what your experience was? Did they cancel an existing flight you had booked?


----------



## gskywalker

22Tink said:


> I just saw that they cancelled my flights to California as well. They didn't notify me, I just happened to check my WestJet app. I'm not seeing a travel bank or credit to my visa. I'm currently on hold with them but thought I'd see what your experience was? Did they cancel an existing flight you had booked?



They didn't cancel according to Westjet, they offered to switch to a flight with delta, with a layover instead of a direct Westjet flight.  Hoping they don't try to say that I chose to cancel, so that I can't get a refund.  I did receive an email from Expedia saying that my flight was changed and did I want to accept the change or cancel.  It is not a change, it is a flight cancellation, so I hit cancel and if westjet fights it I will do a dispute with my credit card which I have already won against Air Transat.


----------



## 22Tink

gskywalker said:


> They didn't cancel according to Westjet, they offered to switch to a flight with delta, with a layover instead of a direct Westjet flight.  Hoping they don't try to say that I chose to cancel, so that I can't get a refund.  I did receive an email from Expedia saying that my flight was changed and did I want to accept the change or cancel.  It is not a change, it is a flight cancellation, so I hit cancel and if westjet fights it I will do a dispute with my credit card which I have already won against Air Transat.


Interesting. I booked directly through WestJet and when I log into my account on the website it says 'cancelled' in red beside all of my flights but I haven't received any communication to let me know what will happen now. I assume travel bank, which is fine, but I'd like to hear it from them! I also have DH booked using credit card points on the same flights but haven't heard from them either. I see a lot of time on the phone in my future.


----------



## kittyab

I don't understand why in the states they will not do what is proven to work: wear masks, use hand sanitizer, social distancing.  Our numbers in Alberta are very manageable.


----------



## pigletto

kittyab said:


> I don't understand why in the states they will not do what is proven to work: wear masks, use hand sanitizer, social distancing.  Our numbers in Alberta are very manageable.


In a nutshell the country has become so broken and divided politically that absolutely everything has become a political battle ground. You need a coordinated effort on all levels of government to enact an effective pandemic response. It wont happen when the powers that be are so divided .


----------



## cgncga

NAB said:


> Wow , McMaster is doing on line fall courses no one is going back to campus. This is Hamilton.
> 
> My daughter is a 3rd year nursing student , they can’t tell her how her clinical will be done. 1 and second year will only have theirs second term none in the fall. This will be hard since it is a hands on course.


My daughter is a second year Nursing student at Mac and though she understands why her clinical has been cancelled for first semester, she's not happy about having to do it over the Spring/Summer session next year--especially since she was planning to work at our local children's centre with medically fragile children this summer and next.  That was cancelled for this summer because of Covid 19, and if she's in a hospital one day a week next summer, I can't see them allowing her to work then, either.  

Good luck to your daughter with her Nursing studies.


----------



## CanucksRock

...Starts looking at flight alternatives if they (Westjet) cancel my flight in September  I'd like to use my flight credit... but I'll fly another airline if I have to.


----------



## Aug2020distrip

Oh wow, yup they totally cancelled the flights to Orlando out of my city as well. We had cancelled our flights anyway a couple weeks ago (aiming for April, but not booking until things look better). The only way to get there seems to be a 4 stop layover trip that takes 20 hours! No thanks lol


----------



## bcwife76

Yep they cancelled the direct flights from YVR to MCO as well. We cancelled ourselves about 3 or 4 weeks ago, might as well have just waited for WJ to do it  As of now, the only flights with WJ out of YVR are to LAX until the Labour Day weekend.


----------



## TinkFan74

I had flights to Honolulu booked on Westjet at the end of August, these were tickets that were booked on vouchers from a May flight to MCO that was canceled. I booked through Expedia and there website shows that my flight is still a go, but on the Westjet site all flights to HNL have been canceled until Labour Day weekend. Does anybody know how long it will take for expedia to contact me about the canceled flight?


----------



## caisland

gskywalker said:


> Westjet just cancelled all the flights to Orlando till school starts, so that officially cancels our end of August vacation.  Can't believe we have already had 4 Disney vacations cancelled.


I checked my Halifax to Orlando on the weekend. Now going thru Toronto a day earlier???
Return currently shows direct. Likely to change. Cancelled Disney yesterday.


----------



## ottawamom

It's a hard thing to do, cancelling a trip. Good for you to do the right thing. Our time will come again someday to go back.


----------



## tlcdoula

samsteele said:


> Or visitors' idea of quarantine isn't quarantine. More of a 'how can I fit this into our vacation plans' notion. Neighbours had cousins from Scotland and their kids over for a few days. Overheard neighbours say they were driving to another city to 'quarantine' for a more few days with another household in the family. Umm, no. Quarantine should mean isolate in a hotel room or remote camp or cabin. Not hopscotch spread the virus across the province.


This is what really annoys me.  We were in Mexico when this all started, when we left there were no advisory's etc but just after we got down there cases started to spread and rules were being put in place.  Before we came home I had my son set the basement up so he didn't have to come upstairs.  He stocked the fridge for us etc and we stayed home for 14 days.  Was it hard sure it was but that is what we needed to do so we did it.  

When we came off the plane into YVR they didn't have the process they have now where I believe you have to give them your plan etc, we just had to agree on the immigration screen that we would no go anywhere once we got home.  If everyone would just follow the flipping rules set in place by each province we could be doing better with our cases etc.  

As much as I want to get back to Disney or to Mexico, I don't see that happening until there either is a vaccine or we see a huge change in numbers and attitude of people taking this more serious.

Sorry Ill get off my high horse now


----------



## bcwife76

This was the PM's response this morning when asked about the ongoing border restrictions with the US:

“Every month we have been able to extend the border closures to all but essential goods and services, and those discussions are ongoing with the United States right now, as we are a week from the next deadline for closures.”

When asked what his thoughts are around extending the closure beyond the July 21 deadline, Trudeau said he and his US counterpart “pledged to continue to monitor closely the situation that is constantly evolving.”

The situation, he said, is one that is “rapidly evolving, and therefore we need to keep responding to the situation on the ground.”


As such, Trudeau said the federal government “will be discussing with our American partners what the next steps should be, and we will have more to say later this week, I’m sure.”

In the meantime, he added, “we’re going to continue to work hard to keep Canadians safe and to work hard to keep our economies flowing.”


Uh....is he waffling??? He's not waffling right now, RIGHT???? I can understand a non-committal response until the 'official' word comes down but this is sounding a bit wishy-washy to me.


----------



## hdrolfe

It isn't like he can come out and say "yeah they are nuts if they think we'll open the border any time soon!" If they are negotiating, they can't do that. He can't afford to piss off the US, or those sections of our own country that want things to "go back to normal" flat out. We, as a country, do a lot of business with the US, it isn't a good idea to say the wrong thing. So yeah, I'd like them to keep it closed, but that may not happen. It would suck for the country if the US comes flooding in, but I think it's much more likely we go flooding down there and then come home.


----------



## bcwife76

No, I agree with you @hdrolfe  he can't say "they are losing control down there", he has to be diplomatic about it. I just found it.....I don't know.....let's say a little less 'firm' of a stance than in previous conferences. But I'm sure he will extend it past July 21st.


----------



## wdwmom3

bcwife76 said:


> This was the PM's response this morning when asked about the ongoing border restrictions with the US:
> 
> “Every month we have been able to extend the border closures to all but essential goods and services, and those discussions are ongoing with the United States right now, as we are a week from the next deadline for closures.”
> 
> When asked what his thoughts are around extending the closure beyond the July 21 deadline, Trudeau said he and his US counterpart “pledged to continue to monitor closely the situation that is constantly evolving.”
> 
> The situation, he said, is one that is “rapidly evolving, and therefore we need to keep responding to the situation on the ground.”
> 
> 
> As such, Trudeau said the federal government “will be discussing with our American partners what the next steps should be, and we will have more to say later this week, I’m sure.”
> 
> In the meantime, he added, “we’re going to continue to work hard to keep Canadians safe and to work hard to keep our economies flowing.”
> 
> 
> Uh....is he waffling??? He's not waffling right now, RIGHT???? I can understand a non-committal response until the 'official' word comes down but this is sounding a bit wishy-washy to me.



Trudeau knows that he is dealing with a spoiled toddler.  He won’t come out and say anything about the closure now because that toddler could throw a tantrum just because he didn’t like that something was said.  I’m positive the border will stay closed but officials won’t say anything publiclY to avoid drawing any attention to it.  That way the adults can have conversations and work together.


----------



## FigmentSpark

I heard a few days ago that the U.S. was pushing to open the border, so if he's "waffling", it may be because he doesn't know if Canada is going to be able to keep the border closed.


----------



## wdwmom3

FigmentSpark said:


> I heard a few days ago that the U.S. was pushing to open the border, so if he's "waffling", it may be because he doesn't know if Canada is going to be able to keep the border closed.



Canada can decide on it own not to let people into Canada.  They don’t need the permission of the US. But it works better if there is agreement.


----------



## DisneyDillyDally

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/pol...in-closed-to-non-essential-travel-until-at-2/


----------



## 22Tink

DisneyDillyDally said:


> https://www.theglobeandmail.com/pol...in-closed-to-non-essential-travel-until-at-2/


Glad to hear it! I figured this was coming with all the international flights being cancelled for August.


----------



## MoreTravels

DisneyDillyDally said:


> https://www.theglobeandmail.com/pol...in-closed-to-non-essential-travel-until-at-2/


----------



## FigmentSpark

MoreTravels said:


>


Sorry... stupid globe and mail keeps telling me I have to make an account to read the article.  Was that for real or just speculation that it's going to happen?


----------



## CanucksRock

FigmentSpark said:


> Sorry... stupid globe and mail keeps telling me I have to make an account to read the article.  Was that for real or just speculation that it's going to happen?


Just speculation. First paragraph: 

_The Canada-U.S. border will remain temporarily closed to non-essential travel until at least Aug. 21 amid Canadians’ concerns about surging COVID-19 cases in the United States, according to sources._


----------



## Frozen2014

bcwife76 said:


> Yep they cancelled the direct flights from YVR to MCO as well. We cancelled ourselves about 3 or 4 weeks ago, might as well have just waited for WJ to do it  As of now, the only flights with WJ out of YVR are to LAX until the Labour Day weekend.


This just happened to us for our August flight on WestJet Toronto to Orlando.  We booked direct and they had a change for a stop in Atlanta.  We did a decline (would have cancelled anyways).  Think this gets us WJ credit for up to 12 months?  Or is it 24 months?


----------



## CanucksRock

Frozen2014 said:


> Think this gets us WJ credit for up to 12 months?  Or is it 24 months?



Stupid website doesn't tell you when your travel back expires, but I checked the email from my cancelled April trip and it was 2 years. I used most it to rebook for September. One more month to find out if that's a go..or cancelled  (the flight - I'll still find a way to go if the parks are open)


----------



## 22Tink

Frozen2014 said:


> This just happened to us for our August flight on WestJet Toronto to Orlando.  We booked direct and they had a change for a stop in Atlanta.  We did a decline (would have cancelled anyways).  Think this gets us WJ credit for up to 12 months?  Or is it 24 months?


My WestJet travel bank is good for 24 months so I'd think yours would be too.


----------



## Frozen2014

22Tink said:


> My WestJet travel bank is good for 24 months so I'd think yours would be too.


Great.  Thank you.


----------



## Donald - my hero

*no question now,  closure extended till August 21st
https://beta.ctvnews.ca/national/politics/2020/7/14/1_5023287.html*


----------



## Best_Vacation_EVER!

I have say I hope the US/Florida gets their act together --- I don't think they have at this point at all but I really do hope they do because Canadians for the most part view Americans as being friends and allies.   I understand there's domestic stuff that plays into this but... really Florida benefits from the world looking at it in a positive and safe light.   We had Dec 2020/ March 2021 ressies which we have cancelled since there is no indicatition that the US will react rationally at all at this point all.   We've gone yearly since 1996, spending tons each visit but won't be going back and paying into the local economy through grocery, transport, shopping, hotels, etc... until this turns around.    

I'm not super political but if your state isn't safe for visitors (in light of what visual evidence, local health, and political voices say) then WDW/Universal is not going to be successful despite their efforts.


----------



## kittyab

I will wait till it is safe to travel again, and when I can I will plan a fabulous trip.


----------



## Retro Magic

I'm not sure what to do. I still want to and feel comfortable traveling September 7. What I'm stuck on is the flight. I don't want to book it and then have it get canceled. Everything is so perfectly planned. DVC rental 2 weeks at Poly. 

We can fly either AC or WJ. Since we rented DVC points we can't get money back. If we don't travel this date we don't know when we would be able to travel again so changing dates doesn't work either. We've already cancelled and rebooked 5 times from our original date in April


----------



## Best_Vacation_EVER!

Retro Magic said:


> I'm not sure what to do. I still want to and feel comfortable traveling September 7. What I'm stuck on is the flight. I don't want to book it and then have it get canceled. Everything is so perfectly planned. DVC rental 2 weeks at Poly.
> 
> We can fly either AC or WJ. Since we rented DVC points we can't get money back. If we don't travel this date we don't know when we would be able to travel again so changing dates doesn't work either. We've already cancelled and rebooked 5 times from our original date in April



I have to say I don't get this.... everyone on this board loves WDW but since Florida as a state has shown zero understanding of the situation and doesn't show any will to resolve this.  I don't see the 14 day quarantine rule on returning to Canada lifting anytime soon --- regardless of border opening --- so as long as your plan factors that in I guess you should be a go...   but I will say I think the $750,000 fine seems about right for those coming back to Canada who don't respect the 14 day quarantine required by the Canadian government.


----------



## Retro Magic

I just got off the phone with Air Canada. They said they are flying to Orlando and Ft Lauderdale weekly. 

So I supposed we'll be good to go in September as of now. We have slight concerns but overall I feel safer in Disney World than at the grocery store. Hopefully things improve by mid Septmeber. And I have no issue being in quarantine for 14 days when we return and/or being tested.


----------



## MoreTravels

Retro Magic said:


> I just got off the phone with Air Canada. They said they are flying to Orlando and Ft Lauderdale weekly.
> 
> So I supposed we'll be good to go in September as of now. We have slight concerns but overall I feel safer in Disney World than at the grocery store. Hopefully things improve by mid Septmeber. And I have no issue being in quarantine for 14 days when we return and/or being tested.



September is 2 months away. Do you really think Florida will go from 15,000 new cases daily to 100 or less daily in 2 months? Would you feel comfortable bringing your family to a city where there is NO hospital bed or medical resource left? What if someone gets sick there and there is no ICU to accept your family member? That has happened to my family before, not for COVID, but for other reasons needing an ICU bed. I will never forget that day where I am calling all Ontario hospitals one by one and beg for a bed. The doctors could not find one. After spending hours on the phone, I found one in Ottawa. I had to use air ambulance to fly my family member from Toronto to Ottawa. I also had to drive on Highway that night to meet my family up... I will never forget that day. I will also never imagine anyone would take the remote chance of getting into a situation where your loved one is critically ill but there is no hospital bed to accept that person. 

Please reconsider.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

@Retro Magic Do you have health insurance that covers COVID or moreso traveling to a country that has a level 4 do not travel advisory?


----------



## momof2gr8kids

https://www.thebeaverton.com/2020/0...s-request-to-kill-thousands-of-our-residents/
I don't know if anyone else here follows the Beaverton (political satire site), but I had a chuckle at this article they wrote.


----------



## wdwmom3

Retro Magic said:


> I just got off the phone with Air Canada. They said they are flying to Orlando and Ft Lauderdale weekly.
> 
> So I supposed we'll be good to go in September as of now. We have slight concerns but overall I feel safer in Disney World than at the grocery store. Hopefully things improve by mid Septmeber. And I have no issue being in quarantine for 14 days when we return and/or being tested.



If you get sick in anyway or have any symptoms you will not be allowed on the plane home.  So please make sure you have the resources for your family to stay in Florida for an extended period of time at your own expense.  As someone else mentioned you should also double check your health insurance as many will not cover you if you travel during a travel advisory.  I don’t think any will cover you for any costs related to covid.


----------



## CanucksRock

I'm sure if someone is deciding to go they know the risks involved. Its within someones right to choose to travel. I plan to, and I fully know I'll have to quaratine for 14 days when I return.


----------



## pigletto

CanucksRock said:


> I'm sure if someone is deciding to go they know the risks involved. Its within someones right to choose to travel. I plan to, and I fully know I'll have to quaratine for 14 days when I return.


And it’s fully within others rights to think it’s absurd and selfish to travel to a known Covid hotspot in the middle of global pandemic.
Great ... you plan to quarantine. What about all the people you encounter during your mode of travel , in the restaurants , the airports , the theme parks ? If you’re not worried about your health that’s fine , but by being a willing host you‘re participating in the potential spread to others. And the likelihood is high.. this isn’t some far fetched “what if”... the numbers in Florida are atrocious.


----------



## wdwmom3

pigletto said:


> And it’s fully within others rights to think it’s absurd and selfish to travel to a known Covid hotspot in the middle of global pandemic.
> Great ... you plan to quarantine. What about all the people you encounter during your mode of travel , in the restaurants , the airports , the theme parks ? If you’re not worried about your health that’s fine , but by being a willing host you‘re participating in the potential spread to others. And the likelihood is high.. this isn’t some far fetched “what if”... the numbers in Florida are atrocious.



Agree!   For all of you planning on travelling this is the official word from the government of Canada. 

Official Global Travel Advisories
Avoid non-essential travel outside of Canada and avoid all cruise ship travel 

Gonna delete my rant cause I was pissed off when I wrote it.  But I’m leaving this here.


----------



## vegs1

People who have decided they are travelling aren’t going to change their minds because your cousin’s daughter in law is a resident. (No offence intended). They have decided what they feel is right. I don’t agree with them, you don’t agree with them but they feel they are invincible. 

It truly is a shame that people don’t see what our front line health workers go through to help us. They put their lives at risk while others go to Disney. It’s ridiculous. I’m sure the people travelling will say it is those people’s choice to work where they do. What can you do? In the end, if they aren’t prevented from going by our border service agents, then we have to rely on them wanting to help contain this by staying home. Unfortunately, we can’t make people do the right thing.


----------



## Retro Magic

I'm not at the point where I feel throwing thousands of dollars away is warranted over the risk of catching something I could just as easily get from the grocery store, mall, camping, zoo, protest or anywhere else which is currently open here. I've already been told I cannot get the money back for this trip.

If...IF it's proven that there are increased cases IN the parks/resort then I will cancel. But as of now there has not been any evidence of that. I feel very safe with what Disney has implemented as do many others who currently work and are visiting there. I'm traveling to Polynesian and staying put except for the park days, keeping a secure mask on and be equipped with my own sanitizer, socially distancing as much as humanly possible. I will not be hopping all over Florida. When I return, I have no work until the earliest November.  As mentioned, lock me up in quarantine for 14 days+. I'm fine with that.

Hopefully the next 50+ days sees improvement. The moment Walt Disney World announces rooted cases, I'll pull the plug and eat the cost. If the parks close again or they ground flights, I'll have an excuse to be allowed to move my points to a later date.

It's a pandemic in more ways than one and one of those is misinformation.


----------



## pixie_mtl

At this point it will take Disney to shut down or limit access to the parks to US citizens only. There, problem solved


----------



## damo

I wonder what the travel insurance situation will be like once the border opens.  That may be a huge factor in whether people risk crossing over into the US for more than a couple of days.


----------



## MamaLema

wdwmom3 said:


> Agree!   For all of you planning on travelling this is the official word from the government of Canada.
> 
> Official Global Travel Advisories
> Avoid non-essential travel outside of Canada and avoid all cruise ship travel until further notice.
> 
> 
> So you say you know the risks, you say you are comfortable with it blah blah blah.  But you basically saying screw what government (and most of Canada) wants me to do.  I’m going on vacation.  This isn’t a joke Florida is horrible right now.  The state isn’t forthcoming with hospital numbers and you have to ask yourself why.   If you do some searching you will see the doctors are saying hospitals are filling up.  It will only get worse.  But hey you go have your vacation.  Who cares if you help spread it around hotels, airplanes etc.  And then hey potentially bring it back to Canada.  And sure you will quarantine, but say you caught covid then it’s medical staff here that have to treat you.  All because you want a vacation.
> 
> My cousins daughter in law is a medical resident.  She was just telling me yesterday that the hospital she works for is forbidding the residents from travelling to another province.  One girl couldn’t even travel to BC for her own wedding. These are the people that will treat your sorry butt when you come back home with covid.  You saying “I know my risks and I’m still going on my vacation too Florida” is like a slap in the face to those people we’ve been calling hero’s.
> 
> It’s so incredibly selfish to go into a hot spot for a vacation.



The thing is we all want to travel. But if there was ever a time to suck it up, this is it.


----------



## samsteele

I get the sense that DVC owners feel pressured to keep their trip(s) or lose their points for the year. Or worse, those who have purchased DVC points for a trip in a private arrangement with a DVC owner on a third party website and have no parachute. I don't know enough about DVC to understand the ins and outs of using points. Perhaps someone who knows can clarify this. Time share has never appealed to me. COVID has highlighted my worry of being bound to WDW for my annual vacation or forfeit my points/investment for the year. I do get the 'I need my WDW fix'. Everyone on this Board loves WDW. But my priority must be my family, clients and neighbours before vacation.


----------



## Madame

samsteele said:


> I get the sense that DVC owners feel pressured to keep their trip(s) or lose their points for the year. Or worse, those who have purchased DVC points for a trip in a private arrangement with a DVC owner on a third party website and have no parachute. I don't know enough about DVC to understand the ins and outs of using points. Perhaps someone who knows can clarify this. Time share has never appealed to me. COVID has highlighted my worry of being bound to WDW for my annual vacation or forfeit my points/investment for the year. I do get the 'I need my WDW fix'. Everyone on this Board loves WDW. But my priority must be my family, clients and neighbours before vacation.


DVC has been overly accommodating, probably to the long term (next 5 years) detriment to the system, given the points that will flood it when this finally passes.

Borrowed points are STILL being returned to their former use year, so the owners won’t forfeit them. Current use years can be banked forward and late (after deadline) banking was allowed. Those who are losing points are those who were trying to use banked 2018/9 points & to be honest, this is not a wise way to use DVC. Many of these members were attempting to use points in the last 4 months of their use year when they can no longer be banked (past deadline). This is not smart. Use years exist for a reason.  Those points can be put into an RCI exchange up to 45 days prior to expiry with properties in CA EU etc available. RCI extends the life of the points by 2 years. It is not considered a « good » trade because DVC properties are more coveted than those in the RCI system, but 

Those that rented have had some success via chargebacks on their CC.  Others don’t understand that option exists and honestly I have no clue why everyone wouldn’t immediately try for a CC reimbursement.

All that to say that any Canadian DVC owner using the excuse that they have to go is full of it


----------



## MoreTravels

Retro Magic said:


> I'm not at the point where I feel throwing thousands of dollars away is warranted over the risk of catching something I could just as easily get from the grocery store, mall, camping, zoo, protest or anywhere else which is currently open here. I've already been told I cannot get the money back for this trip.
> 
> If...IF it's proven that there are increased cases IN the parks/resort then I will cancel. But as of now there has not been any evidence of that. I feel very safe with what Disney has implemented as do many others who currently work and are visiting there. I'm traveling to Polynesian and staying put except for the park days, keeping a secure mask on and be equipped with my own sanitizer, socially distancing as much as humanly possible. I will not be hopping all over Florida. When I return, I have no work until the earliest November.  As mentioned, lock me up in quarantine for 14 days+. I'm fine with that.
> 
> Hopefully the next 50+ days sees improvement. The moment Walt Disney World announces rooted cases, I'll pull the plug and eat the cost. If the parks close again or they ground flights, I'll have an excuse to be allowed to move my points to a later date.
> 
> It's a pandemic in more ways than one and one of those is misinformation.



DVC allows free cancellation up to 30 days before the trip. They are also offering point banking beyond deadline at this time. If you speak to the owner where you rent those points from, they might allow free refund because they don’t lose points before 30 days. This means you have until August to speak to that person before everything is too late to cancel.


----------



## mshanson3121

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> @Retro Magic Do you have health insurance that covers COVID or moreso traveling to a country that has a level 4 do not travel advisory?



Nope. No one does.


----------



## mshanson3121

Retro Magic said:


> I'm not at the point where I feel throwing thousands of dollars away is warranted over the risk of catching something I could just as easily get from the grocery store, mall, camping, zoo, protest or anywhere else which is currently open here. I've already been told I cannot get the money back for this trip.
> 
> If...IF it's proven that there are increased cases IN the parks/resort then I will cancel. But as of now there has not been any evidence of that. I feel very safe with what Disney has implemented as do many others who currently work and are visiting there. I'm traveling to Polynesian and staying put except for the park days, keeping a secure mask on and be equipped with my own sanitizer, socially distancing as much as humanly possible. I will not be hopping all over Florida. When I return, I have no work until the earliest November.  As mentioned, lock me up in quarantine for 14 days+. I'm fine with that.
> 
> Hopefully the next 50+ days sees improvement. The moment Walt Disney World announces rooted cases, I'll pull the plug and eat the cost. If the parks close again or they ground flights, I'll have an excuse to be allowed to move my points to a later date.
> 
> It's a pandemic in more ways than one and one of those is misinformation.



Would love to know who you booked through that you can't get your money back since almost everyone is offering refunds.


----------



## CJK

We cancelled our September trip. We had booked the Dolphin through Priceline (non-cancellable) back in February, but they graciously refunded us last month due to Covid-19, no problem.


----------



## vegs1

damo said:


> I wonder what the travel insurance situation will be like once the border opens.  That may be a huge factor in whether people risk crossing over into the US for more than a couple of days ]QUOTE]
> 
> There will be no insurance covering trips while the pandemic is active unless Canada removes their travel advisory for leaving the country. One or two companies may offer something but the majority won’t cover you during an active pandemic or while an advisory not to travel takes place.


----------



## vegs1

mshanson3121 said:


> Nope. No one does.


Actually, if their trip was booked prior to the pandemic and stay at home order and non-essential travel alert, they may have coverage.


----------



## Disneylover99

Retro Magic said:


> I'm not at the point where I feel throwing thousands of dollars away is warranted over the risk of catching something I could just as easily get from the grocery store, mall, camping, zoo, protest or anywhere else which is currently open here. I've already been told I cannot get the money back for this trip.
> 
> *If...IF it's proven that there are increased cases IN the parks/resort then I will cancel. But as of now there has not been any evidence of that.* I feel very safe with what Disney has implemented as do many others who currently work and are visiting there. I'm traveling to Polynesian and staying put except for the park days, keeping a secure mask on and be equipped with my own sanitizer, socially distancing as much as humanly possible. I will not be hopping all over Florida. When I return, I have no work until the earliest November.  As mentioned, lock me up in quarantine for 14 days+. I'm fine with that.
> 
> Hopefully the next 50+ days sees improvement. The moment Walt Disney World announces rooted cases, I'll pull the plug and eat the cost. If the parks close again or they ground flights, I'll have an excuse to be allowed to move my points to a later date.
> 
> It's a pandemic in more ways than one and one of those is misinformation.


Contact tracing in Florida has been abysmal so I wouldn't really expect to know, with any accuracy, if there have been increased cases in the parks or linked to parks.


----------



## ottawamom

Retro Magic said:


> I just got off the phone with Air Canada. They said they are flying to Orlando and Ft Lauderdale weekly.
> 
> So I supposed we'll be good to go in September as of now. We have slight concerns but overall I feel safer in Disney World than at the grocery store. Hopefully things improve by mid Septmeber. And I have no issue being in quarantine for 14 days when we return and/or being tested.





wdwmom3 said:


> Agree!   For all of you planning on travelling this is the official word from the government of Canada.
> 
> Official Global Travel Advisories
> Avoid non-essential travel outside of Canada and avoid all cruise ship travel



Just heard this morning on the radio. Non essential travel defined as leisure or pleasure travel. You may find it difficult to get across the border if you say you are going to Disneyworld unless of course you are going to fix their IT issues.


----------



## ottawamom

Another thought. It doesn't matter how much money someone may lose as a result of a cancelled trip. "Life" and a healthy one is far more important. This virus is so far reaching to organs and systems in the body I wouldn't risk a life-long ailement for a holiday. 

If you are on here and own DVC I'm thinking you should be able to take the financial hit of one trip. These are not life or death issues. Covid, on the other hand, is.


----------



## TammyLynn33

Brand new DVC owner here Bought last April still have not used , still making monthly payments ( and our dollar isn’t getting any better )  and traveling now isn’t even a thought in my mind or my kids ( kids usually see themselves as invincible but even they get it ) we cancelled August will  Probably  cancel Christmas . We have slight hope about our May trip .. key word here is slight .
Worse case scenario throw them in RCI.. is that what it’s called ? I don’t even know except the return apparently isn’t great but I just want to feel safe.

I’m more concerned with the “Presidents” latest idea to have hospital data go straight to the whitehouse not the CDC and no longer be public knowledge .. I honestly don’t feel I would ever cross the border again if I have no clue about public health data being hidden away. Just my two cents . 






ottawamom said:


> Another thought. It doesn't matter how much money someone may lose as a result of a cancelled trip. "Life" and a healthy one is far more important. This virus is so far reaching to organs and systems in the body I wouldn't risk a life-long ailement for a holiday.
> 
> If you are on here and own DVC I'm thinking you should be able to take the financial hit of one trip. These are not life or death issues. Covid, on the other hand, is.


----------



## Maddysdaddy

Retro Magic said:


> I'm not at the point where I feel throwing thousands of dollars away is warranted over the risk of catching something I could just as easily get from the grocery store, mall, camping, zoo, protest or anywhere else which is currently open here.



When all of Ontario (I see you’re from Toronto) has about 1,400 active cases and Florida is reporting 15,000+ new cases per day, I’m going with “nope”. 

Keep telling yourself what you need to in order to make yourself feel better, but to reference a thirty year old SNL skit, “Denial ain’t just a river in Egypt”.


----------



## wdwmom3

TammyLynn33 said:


> Brand new DVC owner here Bought last April still have not used , still making monthly payments ( and our dollar isn’t getting any better )  and traveling now isn’t even a thought in my mind or my kids ( kids usually see themselves as invincible but even they get it ) we cancelled August will  Probably  cancel Christmas . We have slight hope about our May trip .. key word here is slight .
> Worse case scenario throw them in RCI.. is that what it’s called ? I don’t even know except the return apparently isn’t great but I just want to feel safe.
> 
> I’m more concerned with the “Presidents” latest idea to have hospital data go straight to the whitehouse not the CDC and no longer be public knowledge .. I honestly don’t feel I would ever cross the border again if I have no clue about public health data being hidden away. Just my two cents .



Exactly you can’t even trust what is being reported “officially” because both the president and the governor of Florida want to make it look like everything is ok.   If you listen to what non political people on the ground are saying (doctors, local public health etc) it’s getting bad and will get worse.  People are waiting in line for hours to get tested (so I’m sure lots of people who think they have it aren’t going to even bother) and they are waiting a week or more in some cases to get results.  There is absolutely no contact tracing.


----------



## pigletto

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coron...s-data-to-washington-instead-of-cdc-1.5024805
You know , it’s pretty darn ironic to hear people screech about their “freedoms“ when it comes to wearing masks or not travelling etc when things like the above are happening. Rerouting the data pretty much amounts to full scale data suppression to proceed with reopening , no matter the cost. Pretty soon there won’t even be the freedom to know what the real Covid statistics are. How’s that for freedom?


----------



## mshanson3121

pigletto said:


> https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coron...s-data-to-washington-instead-of-cdc-1.5024805
> You know , it’s pretty darn ironic to hear people screech about their “freedoms“ when it comes to wearing masks or not travelling etc when things like the above are happening. Rerouting the data pretty much amounts to full scale data suppression to proceed with reopening , no matter the cost. Pretty soon there won’t even be the freedom to know what the real Covid statistics are. How’s that for freedom?



I can't believe it happened! I read the first comment a couple above and thought surely they won't do it - and now here we are.


----------



## mshanson3121

Disneylover99 said:


> Contact tracing in Florida has been abysmal so I wouldn't really expect to know, with any accuracy, if there have been increased cases in the parks or linked to parks.



And the issue with contact tracing is asymptomatic spreaders. Joe goes to Disney and contracts asymptomatic Covid. He goes home and spreads it to Sally and Bob. But because Joe is asymptomatic, they don't realize it came from Joe. All they know is they haven't been anywhere, or had any exposure to sick people.


----------



## Best_Vacation_EVER!

mshanson3121 said:


> I can't believe it happened! I read the first comment a couple above and thought surely they won't do it - and now here we are.


This is very alarming --- I think once this occurs that there will be no real reliable numbers coming out of the US (which I understand is the point of them taking this action.)   Basically if you can't manage the pandemic, then manage the information.  

I really hope the border doesn't open any time in 2020 -- it's hard to see why Canada which has been mostly responsible (except LTC/seniors homes) should risk our citizens when clearly the US response is so blatantly political.


----------



## hdrolfe

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coron...th-covid-19-cases-in-last-two-weeks-1.5024278
I'd prefer they not allow the flights in either. Doesn't seem to be very safe.

I have been hoping to plan a trip for early 2022 and am wondering if even then it will be safe! One thing I find helpful in being hopeful for the future is having a trip to plan, something to look forward to. So I get that people want to take the trips they have booked this year. It just doesn't look like this is going to be safe to do for sometime. 

There is anothe article on CTV that it may be another 2 years before this is under control.

Now one thing I see with it running rampant in the US, I guess they'll develop a herd immunity since it seems like they are all going to catch it. Sad that the death toll will be so high. And I will stick with staying safe, away from others, and look forward to a vaccine someday. I thought I heard on the radio this morning that there has been some progress in that regard, but we are still some time away from being able to take advantage of that.


----------



## mshanson3121

hdrolfe said:


> https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coron...th-covid-19-cases-in-last-two-weeks-1.5024278
> I'd prefer they not allow the flights in either. Doesn't seem to be very safe.
> 
> I have been hoping to plan a trip for early 2022 and am wondering if even then it will be safe! One thing I find helpful in being hopeful for the future is having a trip to plan, something to look forward to. So I get that people want to take the trips they have booked this year. It just doesn't look like this is going to be safe to do for sometime.
> 
> There is anothe article on CTV that it may be another 2 years before this is under control.
> 
> *Now one thing I see with it running rampant in the US, I guess they'll develop a herd immunity since it seems like they are all going to catch it*. Sad that the death toll will be so high. And I will stick with staying safe, away from others, and look forward to a vaccine someday. I thought I heard on the radio this morning that there has been some progress in that regard, but we are still some time away from being able to take advantage of that.



Hate to burst this bubble, but herd immunity isn't likely. There's been little evidence of long term immunity, and many asymptomatic people are producing no antibodies at all.


----------



## Pumpkin1172

mshanson3121 said:


> And the issue with contact tracing is asymptomatic spreaders. Joe goes to Disney and contracts asymptomatic Covid. He goes home and spreads it to Sally and Bob. But because Joe is asymptomatic, they don't realize it came from Joe. All they know is they haven't been anywhere, or had any exposure to sick people.


We have had a small increase in new cases in Alberta,  some cases with no known contact or trace can be found.  So we know that there are asymptomatic people spreading it here.  Now that Alberta has opened up testing to anyone at anytime, maybe they can find someone who would be an asymptomatic carrier.  

I will keep doing what we are doing.  Keep our social circles small, wash our hands, wear a mask where social distancing is harder....and probably for me, pick off times when I need to go shopping for items that I might need from malls/stores and other places.  I don't want to live in fear of the virus...because at some point, we need to start to live our lives again.  I can do small things to help limit my contact outside of my home, but I know that my family needs some normalcy again.  Especially with summer here, we can get outside and enjoy the outdoors and do those things we can't do when winter is here.  I'll isolate again when it's cold, gross and snowy outside with -30 temps.


----------



## quandrea

mshanson3121 said:


> I can't believe it happened! I read the first comment a couple above and thought surely they won't do it - and now here we are.


This is horrifying. In regards to dvc—I’m resigned to the notion that for the foreseeable future I’m not using my membership. I’ll take the financial hit willingly—my goal is to get out of this pandemic with my family in tact. Given how poorly things are going down south, I’m wondering if it will come to my selling my beloved dvc. I can’t see using it for a long time. The point will come where owning it will make no sense. It’s a shame and I hope it doesn’t come to selling. My dream was to spend three months of every winter down there with my dvc.


----------



## 22Tink

pigletto said:


> https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coron...s-data-to-washington-instead-of-cdc-1.5024805
> You know , it’s pretty darn ironic to hear people screech about their “freedoms“ when it comes to wearing masks or not travelling etc when things like the above are happening. Rerouting the data pretty much amounts to full scale data suppression to proceed with reopening , no matter the cost. Pretty soon there won’t even be the freedom to know what the real Covid statistics are. How’s that for freedom?


Oh boy this is not good.


----------



## ottawamom

hdrolfe said:


> https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coron...th-covid-19-cases-in-last-two-weeks-1.5024278
> I'd prefer they not allow the flights in either. Doesn't seem to be very safe.
> 
> I have been hoping to plan a trip for early 2022 and am wondering if even then it will be safe!
> 
> There is anothe article on CTV that it may be another 2 years before this is under control.
> 
> Now one thing I see with it running rampant in the US, I guess they'll develop a herd immunity since it seems like they are all going to catch it. Sad that the death toll will be so high. And I will stick with staying safe, away from others, and look forward to a vaccine someday. I thought I heard on the radio this morning that there has been some progress in that regard, but we are still some time away from being able to take advantage of that.


I gave up on 2022 yesterday when I read that they think "Normal" may be sometime in the summer of 2022. I'll give it another 6 months or so after that.

Even if everyone in the States did catch it there is now some thought that antibodies only last a few months. I don't know what that will mean for getting rid of this virus ever.


----------



## Pumpkin1172

ottawamom said:


> Even if everyone in the States did catch it there is now some thought that antibodies only last a few months. I don't know what that will mean for getting rid of this virus ever.


It will not be going away.  It's here.  All we can do is hope that with more people contracting it, that the mortality rate will drastically decrease, and that the medical community learn to to treat it more effectively.  I am not putting much hope into a vaccine.  The medical community have not been able to " yet " find a vaccine for the other covid viruses that are in the world.   
We will have to see how this all plays out.  Will there be a second wave?  How bad will it be?  How can we find those who are asymptomatic and are spreading it.  Are business going to start to give people sick days for when they are feeling sick and have can get tested?  There are a million different ways this will be going.


----------



## friedela

Pumpkin1172 said:


> It will not be going away.  It's here.  All we can do is hope that with more people contracting it, that the mortality rate will drastically decrease, and that the medical community learn to to treat it more effectively.  I am not putting much hope into a vaccine.  The medical community have not been able to " yet " find a vaccine for the other covid viruses that are in the world.
> We will have to see how this all plays out.  Will there be a second wave?  How bad will it be?  How can we find those who are asymptomatic and are spreading it.  Are business going to start to give people sick days for when they are feeling sick and have can get tested?  There are a million different ways this will be going.



The mortality rate is already decreasing even though cases are rising. I agree that it's here and that we shouldn't be putting all of our hope into a vaccine. Dr. Fauci has already said we have no guarantee that a safe vaccine will be found.


----------



## mshanson3121

Pumpkin1172 said:


> It will not be going away.  It's here.  All we can do is hope that with more people contracting it, that the mortality rate will drastically decrease, and that the medical community learn to to treat it more effectively.  I am not putting much hope into a vaccine.  The medical community have not been able to " yet " find a vaccine for the other covid viruses that are in the world.
> We will have to see how this all plays out.  Will there be a second wave?  How bad will it be?  How can we find those who are asymptomatic and are spreading it.  Are business going to start to give people sick days for when they are feeling sick and have can get tested?  There are a million different ways this will be going.



This. Still soo many questions. Now, I do have more hope in a vaccine - there's many out there that they feel are very promising, and are already in human trials. So that's actually a really good sign. But... based on the emerging evidence/science re: antibodies, it looks like it may be more of an annual shot like flu vaccine, instead of a one and done. And... to be perfectly honest, there are many people that won't get it initially anyways, just due to (legitimate) safety concerns. Other people for whom the vaccine won't be effective for, and if it mutates regularly like influenza that'll pose challenges. I think our biggest hope is just time - time to learn more about the virus and how it behaves, why certain people react in certain ways to it, time to find better and safer treatments etc... And, admittedly, I think that some level of social distancing is here to remain, permanently. In our province, NB, they have already said that even when the province returns to "green", it will be a requirement for everyone to wear a mask in public if they are exhibiting any symptoms/illness. So if you do go to work with your cold - you'll be expected to wear a mask.


----------



## AngelDisney

Madame said:


> DVC has been overly accommodating, probably to the long term (next 5 years) detriment to the system, given the points that will flood it when this finally passes.
> 
> Borrowed points are STILL being returned to their former use year, so the owners won’t forfeit them. Current use years can be banked forward and late (after deadline) banking was allowed. Those who are losing points are those who were trying to use banked 2018/9 points & to be honest, this is not a wise way to use DVC. Many of these members were attempting to use points in the last 4 months of their use year when they can no longer be banked (past deadline). This is not smart. Use years exist for a reason.  Those points can be put into an RCI exchange up to 45 days prior to expiry with properties in CA EU etc available. RCI extends the life of the points by 2 years. It is not considered a « good » trade because DVC properties are more coveted than those in the RCI system, but
> 
> Those that rented have had some success via chargebacks on their CC.  Others don’t understand that option exists and honestly I have no clue why everyone wouldn’t immediately try for a CC reimbursement.
> 
> All that to say that any Canadian DVC owner using the excuse that they have to go is full of it


How does the Charge Back process work? I have a DVC rental trip booked for December and have read about the Charge Back option. Is it only applicable when WDW gets closed? I booked at 11 months out. Is it too late to try this option? TIA!


----------



## Madame

AngelDisney said:


> How does the Charge Back process work? I have a DVC rental trip booked for December and have read about the Charge Back option. Is it only applicable when WDW gets closed? I booked at 11 months out. Is it too late to try this option? TIA!


Only for the rentals during the closure pd.  If you used a CC & the border remains closed, check if your CC has insurance & go that route.


----------



## pigletto

friedela said:


> The mortality rate is already decreasing even though cases are rising. I agree that it's here and that we shouldn't be putting all of our hope into a vaccine. Dr. Fauci has already said we have no guarantee that a safe vaccine will be found.


I wasn‘t familiar with the source of the video you posted so did a quick check for Will Witt and PragerU. Both are widely regarded as ultra right wing propaganda. Just something to keep in mind when watching because the message is now political whether we like it or not. 

https://www.mediamatters.org/dennis...spectability-obscure-its-propagandist-mission
https://www.thejustice.org/article/...tys-slick-production-masks-deep-seated-hatred
https://www.motherjones.com/politic...als-conservative-prageru-video-dennis-prager/


----------



## isabellea

One of the reason the general death rate is decreasing is that more young people are getting infected, not because it is less deadly for the elderly or at-risk individuals. Also, long-term sequellae (pulmonary and neurological) are not taken into account in the stats.


----------



## Best_Vacation_EVER!

I think there is probably something between a totally effective vaccine and not visiting.   A well tested and comprehensive vaccine could take years...  A therapeutic that can reduce the inflammation/effects of Covid would likely be a better horizon.  A therapeutic that works before you get super sick (remdesivir is used for super sick patients currently) would really change things.   I think if for most Covid-19 was routinely treatable that would change the landscape as much as any vaccine and would likely make the insurance companies more likely to cover travel during Covid.  I think this may be more do-able than a vaccine


----------



## wdwmom3

So the new cases in the US today were over 77,000.  And almost 1000 deaths in a single  day .  It’s so sad.  I think the US could hit 100,000 cases a day by August.


----------



## TammyLynn33

I think what people aren’t realizing is yes maybe deaths are decreasing but what exactly constitutes “recovered” ? 
A friend former coworker nurse contracted covid while working in LTC. No underlying health conditions., young mom to two small boys awaiting a pulmonary specialist appt with all the lasting effects.  She wasn’t even “sick enough “ to be hospitalized and she still can’t recover. 
just a thought


----------



## wdwmom3

TammyLynn33 said:


> I think what people aren’t realizing is yes maybe deaths are decreasing but what exactly constitutes “recovered” ?
> A friend former coworker nurse contracted covid while working in LTC. No underlying health conditions., young mom to two small boys awaiting a pulmonary specialist appt with all the lasting effects.  She wasn’t even “sick enough “ to be hospitalized and she still can’t recover.
> just a thought



These are the people the “it’s no big deal” people won’t talk about.  This will affect the health of many people for a long time.


----------



## pigletto

TammyLynn33 said:


> I think what people aren’t realizing is yes maybe deaths are decreasing but what exactly constitutes “recovered” ?
> A friend former coworker nurse contracted covid while working in LTC. No underlying health conditions., young mom to two small boys awaiting a pulmonary specialist appt with all the lasting effects.  She wasn’t even “sick enough “ to be hospitalized and she still can’t recover.
> just a thought


My friend in New Jersey ( we were both moderators on another online board together for years) is having the same experience. She tested positive late April, and is still unwell. Shes fit and healthy and in her 40s. No underlying conditions. Shes seeing a pulmonologist, who tells her it will just take time. She‘s  building up her stamina over time but gets winded easily and has low energy. She was never “sick enough“ to be hospitalized either.


----------



## 22Tink

TammyLynn33 said:


> I think what people aren’t realizing is yes maybe deaths are decreasing but what exactly constitutes “recovered” ?
> A friend former coworker nurse contracted covid while working in LTC. No underlying health conditions., young mom to two small boys awaiting a pulmonary specialist appt with all the lasting effects.  She wasn’t even “sick enough “ to be hospitalized and she still can’t recover.
> just a thought


Exactly! Recovered doesn’t necessarily mean ‘back to full health’. So many people are having long lasting effects from this virus.


----------



## wdwmom3

Retro Magic said:


> I just got off the phone with Air Canada. They said they are flying to Orlando and Ft Lauderdale weekly.
> 
> So I supposed we'll be good to go in September as of now. We have slight concerns but overall I feel safer in Disney World than at the grocery store. Hopefully things improve by mid Septmeber. And I have no issue being in quarantine for 14 days when we return and/or being tested.



You should read this.  

https://apple.news/AosAHeIIVTIuxI8OSyfzGyg


----------



## Babsy

mshanson3121 said:


> I know the closure has been extended to May 20th. When do you think we'll see the border re-opening? Do you think it'll be province by province depending on risk zones? All at once? Do you think individual provinces will require quarentine even after it opens? *When do you personally want to see it reopen*?



I'm hoping that the border will stay closed to non essential travel. 

I would rather it remain closed until the USA gets a more stable method of dealing with this virus. ALSO NOT until they have lower infection rates. Maybe, next year sometime? Although perhaps by then our numbers will be rising.......and they will want to keep us out. Who knows where we will be in this fight in two months time? or even two weeks? Coronavirus CoV2 is insidious.  AND traumatizing.

Meanwhile, however, we have enough problems of our own (here in Canada) dealing with this thing. I wish that we all would just start wearing masks, social distancing and caring as much about the health and safety of others as what we want for ourselves.

I know that we are all tired of this. Nobody wants this new reality, but we are stuck with it for now. Keeping interactions minimal and doing what we all dislike but know needs to be done, is the only way forward, IMO, for any semblance of 'normal' to return - until there is a vaccine. 

Unfortunately, that  also means closed borders while we all try to come to grips and contain this virus.

May God help America and Canada beat this horrible virus!


----------



## LuvMyEAR

With hopes for our November 2020 trip pretty much gone, I am just waiting for our government to make it official. 

For a purely practical (lazy?) reason, I might add. I figure a closed border will make it easier to deal with airline. I had resigned myself to losing my non-refundable deposit in the event anything happened when I signed the agreement for our vacation rental property. The owner has been amazing, though, and offered to apply the deposit to a future booking, as well as honour the excellent rates Of our original agreement. I was very impressed! 

As scary as the virus is the civil unrest which is escalating in the US.  I am very worried that this, too, will get worse before it gets better.  The damage being inflicted on the nation by its current administration is unbelievable.


----------



## mshanson3121

Babsy said:


> Meanwhile, however, we have enough problems of our own (here in Canada) dealing with this thing.



Yes, unfortunately, our cases are starting to trend the wrong way again, too. Our daily cases are back up on the rise. Nothing like the US's,  but still not the direction we want to be going.


----------



## bababear_50

Scores of people held a party on Third Beach in Vancouver Tuesday night despite pleas from health officials to maintain social distancing protocols as the number of COVID-19 cases spike in B.C.


And I'm never going to get to Niagara Falls at this rate


A video shot on Clifton Hill in Niagara Falls shows large crowds and little physical distancing during the city's final weekend in Stage 2 of the provinces reopening plan.

So so so sad.!


----------



## Jrb1979

bababear_50 said:


> View attachment 512533
> Scores of people held a party on Third Beach in Vancouver Tuesday night despite pleas from health officials to maintain social distancing protocols as the number of COVID-19 cases spike in B.C.
> 
> 
> And I'm never going to get to Niagara Falls at this rate
> View attachment 512535
> 
> A video shot on Clifton Hill in Niagara Falls shows large crowds and little physical distancing during the city's final weekend in Stage 2 of the provinces reopening plan.
> 
> So so so sad.!


The worst part of that video of Niagara Falls is that the majority of those people aren't even from Niagara.


----------



## Pumpkin1172

bababear_50 said:


> Scores of people held a party on Third Beach in Vancouver Tuesday night despite pleas from health officials to maintain social distancing protocols as the number of COVID-19 cases spike in B.C.



And I was worried last weekend when we were waiting to put the boat back on the trailer, and myself and youngest ds were holding the boat at the dock, while patiently waiting for dh turn to park the trailer into the water, so that the ds could drive the boat onto the trailer, while I hopped into the truck to drive it all out.  I was nervous that there were a handful of other families and other waiting all over the area.  But it was NOTHING like that.  

I couldn't wait to get out of the little marina with the amount of people that were there.  Next time we will plan our day a little better, and be able to wait until it is quieter with people loading and unloading boats.  

It's tending up here too in Alberta     We now have 9 ( I think ) active cases.  We months we had zero.  Those 9 are all related to someone travelling more south, and all nine have ties to that person's place of employment.  But still.  We have been VERY lucky here so far.  I hope we can keep it that way.  Once August is done, and summer vacations and travelling around are not happening as much, it will be much better.  But it is still unsettling.


----------



## marchingstar

Pumpkin1172 said:


> And I was worried last weekend when we were waiting to put the boat back on the trailer, and myself and youngest ds were holding the boat at the dock, while patiently waiting for dh turn to park the trailer into the water, so that the ds could drive the boat onto the trailer, while I hopped into the truck to drive it all out.  I was nervous that there were a handful of other families and other waiting all over the area.  But it was NOTHING like that.
> 
> I couldn't wait to get out of the little marina with the amount of people that were there.  Next time we will plan our day a little better, and be able to wait until it is quieter with people loading and unloading boats.
> 
> It's tending up here too in Alberta     We now have 9 ( I think ) active cases.  We months we had zero.  Those 9 are all related to someone travelling more south, and all nine have ties to that person's place of employment.  But still.  We have been VERY lucky here so far.  I hope we can keep it that way.  Once August is done, and summer vacations and travelling around are not happening as much, it will be much better.  But it is still unsettling.



I’m in a city in AB, and we’re seeing the numbers climbing again too. I think whether it gets better depends on what actually happens with school, come Sept. The government announcements about school plans (or a lack of plans...) don’t inspire any confidence to me.


----------



## Aladora

We had a stern talking-to by our Premier, John Horgan, today. Our numbers are starting to climb again and we all need to stop being such dummies and get back with the program!


----------



## Babsy

I don't understand *why* people just. won't. wear. a. mask.? They tell me that there aren't many cases here in NL, which is true, but you don't know when someone returning from a hotspot will contract the disease and come home to cause a flare up. It can take two weeks or more before it is known that Covid 19 is back and at that point many people can be infected. Everyone wearing a mask would greatly reduce that risk.  Just look south of the border and see the mess that they are in. That could be us here in Canada at any time - especially since most people (in NL at least) are acting like Covid 19 doesn't exist anymore.

WHY won't our government mandate wearing masks in public settings? exceptions can be made for those that cannot wear a mask. If everyone wore a mask in public, we could much more quickly get back to 'normal' and more safely reopen the economy. Isn't that what we all want? 

People don't want to wear a mask and many will not just 'do the right thing' because they don't recognize the need.
Most people will not inconvenience themselves until required to do so. 
Result 1 : continued unnecessary, excess Covid 19 spread. Result 2: needless suffering, economic loss and death.

WE now know that wearing masks, social distancing, washing our hands and reducing unnecessary contact works to control the spread dramatically. We also know that we need a strong government  that will put the necessary restrictions in place.

Heaven help us all....


----------



## isabellea

Yesterday we visited a small local zoo (Ecomuseum) and had lunch at a restaurant for the first time since March. My kids were super excited to get out of our neighbourhood for once! We now have a mask mandate for the whole province for everyone over 12 yo and I was positively surprised at compliance at the zoo. It's only required indoor and I haven't seen any adult not wearing one and most kids over 2yo were also wearing one, even though it is not mandatory for them. The zoo closed pathways and did a one-way tour. Everybody was very respectful of social distancing and we often heard parents tell their kids to wait for the family in front of them to finish looking at the animals before moving closer (me included). They did small presentations and had taped boxes on the grounds for families to stand in apart from each other. Even the gift shop was very good for social distancing with a path for those that wanted to exit right away and a maximum number of people at one time.

At the restaurant, the kids really wanted to eat indoor in the AC and because I knew it's huge with a high ceiling and not very popular for lunch, I agreed. We wore our mask while moving and our server was wearing a mask and a shield (I also wore my mask when ordering for everyone). Cooks in the open kitchen were wearing a mask and gloves. They had a sanitizer distributor to clean our hands before entering the restroom and signs telling everyone it was mandatory to wash your hands before going back to the restaurant (before COVID-19 the sign was only for employees). All toilets seats were up if disinfected. I'm not ready to eat at restaurants every week but for special occasions, I will probably go back (yesterday was my youngest daughter birthday).


----------



## samsteele

Babsy said:


> Most people will not inconvenience themselves until required to do so.


I wish more would realize that this is our World War. Our Home Front. Our mobilization. We face a terrifying challenge to our way of life unless we smarten up and walk the line. Our great grandparents sacrificed for The Great War. Our grandparents for WWII. We can't be bothered to pull on a paper or fabric mask and stay at home. Our ancestors would be deeply ashamed of us. Sadly, many of my generation and younger generations don't even know what mobilization means. Or sacrifice. We just want to party. Drink. Pig out and eat like gluttons. And lounge on the beach. Sometimes I wonder if the brave who served on our peacekeeping missions and coalition deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan could speak up and shame the rest of us into some common sense. Maybe they've already given too much and can't give more. I know our essential workers have given their all. Come fall and winter, they will have to give even more. Why the rest of Canadians can't do even a little to save others is shameful.


----------



## quandrea

samsteele said:


> I wish more would realize that this is our World War. Our Home Front. Our mobilization. We face a terrifying challenge to our way of life unless we smarten up and walk the line. Our great grandparents sacrificed for The Great War. Our grandparents for WWII. We can't be bothered to pull on a paper or fabric mask and stay at home. Our ancestors would be deeply ashamed of us. Sadly, many of my generation and younger generations don't even know what mobilization means. Or sacrifice. We just want to party. Drink. Pig out and eat like gluttons. And lounge on the beach. Sometimes I wonder if the brave who served on our peacekeeping missions and coalition deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan could speak up and shame the rest of us into some common sense. Maybe they've already given too much and can't give more. I know our essential workers have given their all. Come fall and winter, they will have to give even more. Why the rest of Canadians can't do even a little to save others is shameful.


This should be plastered everywhere that someone can read it.

People don’t seem to realise how big this is. This morning I had the same thoughts, but you’ve articulated the sentiment so well. Everyone wants everything to be normal, but there is no normal right now.

A friend asked me early on. “How long can we stay locked up like this?  How long can you keep your children home?”

I told her that people sacrificed for nearly five years during the world wars. I told her I’d stay home as long as it takes. We will make it through. Hopefully without getting sick, or worse.


----------



## samsteele

We pray for normal. But we work with what we've got.


----------



## Madame

Remember the video from Niagara..?


----------



## mshanson3121

quandrea said:


> A friend asked me early on. “How long can we stay locked up like this?  How long can you keep your children home?”



And the thing is - people wouldn't HAVE to stay locked up, or home, if they could just follow the new rules of common decency. Wear a mask, stay 6' apart, and avoid busy locations as much as possible. So, if the beach is packed, go somewhere else. 

At home in our day to day life, we order our groceries or do parcel pick up. We shop online as much as possible. We only go inside a store if absolutely necessary, and every single time we step foot in a public indoor building, we wear a mask. Even though venues like bowling alleys and swimming pools have opened back up, we don't go. However, that doesn't mean the kids are stuck with nothing to do. Our son has resumed his trumpet lessons - they now do their lessons (one on one) outside, spaced well apart from each other. Our daughter has resumed her riding lessons, which take place in an outdoor arena with a (tiny) maximum class size, and all students are distanced not just 6' apart, but 20' apart from each other in a huge indoor arena when tacking up their horses. All equipment is sanitized between classes. 

As far as seeing their friends, we bought the kids tablets for Easter, and so they are able to connect online every day with video chats etc... We have a small circle of friends whom we know well (as in their exposure/risk) and trust, and have bubbled with. They have occassional outdoor play dates. We still visit our immediate family, but we are smart about it. We try to stay outdoors as much as possible, and if that's not possible, we don't crowd right on top of each other. We distance as much as possible in the house. And again, it's not a regular thing.

We are going on "vacation" in two weeks. We rented a cabin at a campground, and are bringing all our own groceries. No worrying about crowded lobbies, running into people in hallways of hotels etc... We will explore all the great outdoor venues like gardens, beaches, historic sites, go whale watching and/or hiking, roast marshmallows at night at our camp fire etc...  Basically, we'll stay away from people as much as possible.

Life during Covid doesn't have to stop, it just has to adapt. Just like our grandparents and great-grandparents did when faced with challenges like pandemics, wars, massive droughts and depressions.   They didn't stop living, they just changed how they did it.


----------



## quandrea

mshanson3121 said:


> And the thing is - people wouldn't HAVE to stay locked up, or home, if they could just follow the new rules of common decency. Wear a mask, stay 6' apart, and avoid busy locations as much as possible. So, if the beach is packed, go somewhere else.
> 
> At home in our day to day life, we order our groceries or do parcel pick up. We shop online as much as possible. We only go inside a store if absolutely necessary, and every single time we step foot in a public indoor building, we wear a mask. Even though venues like bowling alleys and swimming pools have opened back up, we don't go. However, that doesn't mean the kids are stuck with nothing to do. Our son has resumed his trumpet lessons - they now do their lessons (one on one) outside, spaced well apart from each other. Our daughter has resumed her riding lessons, which take place in an outdoor arena with a (tiny) maximum class size, and all students are distanced not just 6' apart, but 20' apart from each other in a huge indoor arena when tacking up their horses. All equipment is sanitized between classes.
> 
> As far as seeing their friends, we bought the kids tablets for Easter, and so they are able to connect online every day with video chats etc... We have a small circle of friends whom we know well (as in their exposure/risk) and trust, and have bubbled with. They have occassional outdoor play dates. We still visit our immediate family, but we are smart about it. We try to stay outdoors as much as possible, and if that's not possible, we don't crowd right on top of each other. We distance as much as possible in the house. And again, it's not a regular thing.
> 
> We are going on "vacation" in two weeks. We rented a cabin at a campground, and are bringing all our own groceries. No worrying about crowded lobbies, running into people in hallways of hotels etc... We will explore all the great outdoor venues like gardens, beaches, historic sites, go whale watching and/or hiking, roast marshmallows at night at our camp fire etc...  Basically, we'll stay away from people as much as possible.
> 
> Life during Covid doesn't have to stop, it just has to adapt. Just like our grandparents and great-grandparents did when faced with challenges like pandemics, wars, massive droughts and depressions.   They didn't stop living, they just changed how they did it.


Well said. We are basically living the same way. Only seeing people outside though. We won’t vacation this year, but we are making the most of our wooded yard and pool. Your trumpet lessons sound like a dream. My kids play drums so outside is out for that. They do miss their lessons.

We are busy and happy and are truly enjoying the summer. It doesn’t have to be all bad. I am worried about what the coming months hold.


----------



## mshanson3121

quandrea said:


> My kids play drums so outside is out for that. They do miss their lessons.
> 
> We are busy and happy and are truly enjoying the summer. It doesn’t have to be all bad. I am worried about what the coming months hold.



Haha, yes my mother is a drummer - you're not tearing down and setting up a kit each time you get the whim to play outside. Nor are they staying outside! 

I agree, I am a little more worried about the fall/winter months. I do expect it will be more like this past spring - full lockdown again, no visits, no activities. _Unless _people can start controlling themselves now.


----------



## LuvMyEAR

Life in Covid times, eh?

How we respond and adapt determines if we ourselves and those we love will have a life to live.  Need to keep that at the forefront of our minds. We are privileged in so many ways and it is easy to forget that we need to do our part. 

Masks. Hand washing. Distancing. Here’s hoping our governments find the fortitude to help us with the unpopular choices when necessary.


----------



## Pumpkin1172

marchingstar said:


> I’m in a city in AB, and we’re seeing the numbers climbing again too. I think whether it gets better depends on what actually happens with school, come Sept. The government announcements about school plans (or a lack of plans...) don’t inspire any confidence to me.


I was very disappointed that they have said school will be starting back up again with what seems very little  precautions.  I'm hoping that they will be able to safely social distance the kids, group kids with their social circles.  I was VERY surprised that they are not mandating masks.  I already told the son he will be wearing a mask and be carrying hand sanitizer around all the time with his binders.  I was really hoping for them to split the classes and have group A come on Monday, Wednesdays, and Group B come on Tuesdays and Thursdays, and Fridays would be done through google classroom as they were doing before.  I guess it's fluid and I'm sure it will be changing.  I just told ds that he will have to roll with how this school year goes.  For a kid who doesn't like change, it's a struggle for him.  

I'm with you that is it worrying that the numbers are climbing, and that hospitalizations are also climbing here.  Hopefully people will double think when going out to places where social distancing can't be done.   We are trying to be as safe as we can, we are keeping our social bubble very small, only go shopping when it's quiet in places, no vacations, except for fishing in our boat on the weekends.  We might pull the camper out yet to do a little camping, but that is the extent of our vacationing.  We are just trying to find a little normal while being creative in where we go to stay away from groups of people.


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## Kaadk

Our board here (GECDSB) hasn't stated what exactly they plan to do yet, because, they still don't know.  But they did send around a survey, and have published the results of the survey.  Basically, about 62% of the parents want the kids to go back to school, 15% don't want the kids to go back at all, and 23% were undecided, and those opinions seemed to hold consistent across all the various models they presented in the survey.  

I for one, need my kids to resume 'learning'.  It doesn't need to be physically present at the school, but it does need to be back to how it was during school.  I need the teachers to be presenting the curriculum, and working with the students to reinforce it.  What we had during the closure was just them assigning homework, and hoping the kids picked it up, and it wasn't working. I fully understand why it was that way to start, the infrastructure wasn't in place, people weren't prepared, etc... but it can't be the go forward plan.  If our board decides that's the way it's going to be, then I'm gonna have to pull my kids from there and go to a different board.  The extended family's kids are spread around the different boards in the area, and I know the other boards in the end were back to doing full classroom participation via zoom, google or other technologies, so I know what they're capabilities are going to be if we have to switch.  I don't want to, as I'd prefer to keep the kids were they're at, and interacting with the people they know, but in the end, their ability to get an education is going to win out.


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## mshanson3121

Kaadk said:


> I for one, need my kids to resume 'learning'.  It doesn't need to be physically present at the school, but it does need to be back to how it was during school.



I think parents who have children in school need to realize that even if they go back to school via Zoom, it (their learning) is NOT going to be anything close to how it was during school, and the outcomes will not begin compare.

Personally, I think all schools would be better off to just scrap the year. One year off will not hurt the students or matter in the grand scheme of things, and the money saved could be redistributed to assist with extra daycare/food costs etc...


----------



## pigletto

Pumpkin1172 said:


> I was very disappointed that they have said school will be starting back up again with what seems very little  precautions.  I'm hoping that they will be able to safely social distance the kids, group kids with their social circles.  I was VERY surprised that they are not mandating masks.  I already told the son he will be wearing a mask and be carrying hand sanitizer around all the time with his binders.  I was really hoping for them to split the classes and have group A come on Monday, Wednesdays, and Group B come on Tuesdays and Thursdays, and Fridays would be done through google classroom as they were doing before.  I guess it's fluid and I'm sure it will be changing.  I just told ds that he will have to roll with how this school year goes.  For a kid who doesn't like change, it's a struggle for him.
> 
> I'm with you that is it worrying that the numbers are climbing, and that hospitalizations are also climbing here.  Hopefully people will double think when going out to places where social distancing can't be done.   We are trying to be as safe as we can, we are keeping our social bubble very small, only go shopping when it's quiet in places, no vacations, except for fishing in our boat on the weekends.  We might pull the camper out yet to do a little camping, but that is the extent of our vacationing.  We are just trying to find a little normal while being creative in where we go to stay away from groups of people.


Our board said no masks as well claiming that Public health said they weren’t necessary. Last night Regional council passed a mandate that masks must be worn on all Niagara transit and in all indoor spaces. Last I checked the schools in Niagara were indoor spaces so it looks like masks will be mandated afterall. At least everyone has stopped playing hot potato on the mask issue and we have a region wide decision.
I can’t imagine schools being exempt, but my 16 year old son will be wearing a mask. It‘s my job to raise socially responsible humans who don’t think they are the centre of the universe and who realize that their actions affect other human beings. He was already in agreement but a mandate will make it easier to get all of the kids to comply.
To be honest I feel like it will be about November before we are all back under stay at home orders again. I will be surprised if bringing the kids back doesn‘t lead to another surge in cases.


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## wdwmom3

pigletto said:


> Our board said no masks as well claiming that Public health said they weren’t necessary. Last night Regional council passed a mandate that masks must be worn on all Niagara transit and in all indoor spaces. Last I checked the schools in Niagara were indoor spaces so it looks like masks will be mandated afterall. At least everyone has stopped playing hot potato on the mask issue and we have a region wide decision.
> I can’t imagine schools being exempt, but my 16 year old son will be wearing a mask. It‘s my job to raise socially responsible humans who don’t think they are the centre of the universe and who realize that their actions affect other human beings. He was already in agreement but a mandate will make it easier to get all of the kids to comply.
> To be honest I feel like it will be about November before we are all back under stay at home orders again. I will be surprised if bringing the kids back doesn‘t lead to another surge in cases.



I believe most mandates are for indoor spaces open to the public.  Since schools aren’t open to the public I don’t think they fall under the mandates.  We have heard masks will be mandated on school buses in our region but I haven’t heard about the actual schools.  But I think for elementary they won’t be making masks mandatory.


----------



## pigletto

wdwmom3 said:


> I believe most mandates are for indoor spaces open to the public.  Since schools aren’t open to the public I don’t think they fall under the mandates.  We have heard masks will be mandated on school buses in our region but I haven’t heard about the actual schools.  But I think for elementary they won’t be making masks mandatory.


Ugh. That’s what I was afraid of. How can they possibly stick a bunch of teenagers indoors and try to convince us that masks aren‘t necessary ? They don’t want to police it, and they don’t want to provide the masks. That’s all it is.


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## wdwmom3

pigletto said:


> Ugh. That’s what I was afraid of. How can they possibly stick a bunch of teenagers indoors and try to convince us that masks aren‘t necessary ? They don’t want to police it, and they don’t want to provide the masks. That’s all it is.



I think that would be up to the school boards? I haven’t heard what they are doing in high schools in my area yet.  But considering they have already said masks are needed on school busses I think they may make them mandatory for the teens to wear in the hallways etc.  

I’ve only heard they are thinking of no mask for elementary school kids when in their classroom.  Hopefully next week we will get more info.


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## quandrea

One thing I don’t understand about high school is that an Ontario e-learning consortium exists (dd takes courses with them) and the Independent Learning Centre exists. These groups have the full complement of high school courses written and ready to deploy. Why are these not being used by every board in Ontario?  Seems like it would save money and work very well for virtual learning. The courses through the consortium are excellent. Can’t speak to the ILC. Why does each board have to reinvent the wheel.

My daughter will be home for her last year of high school. My younger two homeschool.


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## wdwmom3

quandrea said:


> One thing I don’t understand about high school is that an Ontario e-learning consortium exists (dd takes courses with them) and the Independent Learning Centre exists. These groups have the full complement of high school courses written and ready to deploy. Why are these not being used by every board in Ontario?  Seems like it would save money and work very well for virtual learning. The courses through the consortium are excellent. Can’t speak to the ILC. Why does each board have to reinvent the wheel.
> 
> My daughter will be home for her last year of high school. My younger two homeschool.



They weren’t used in March to replace in class.  But that’s because classes were already in progress.  But I do know people who have kids doing courses this summer using those courses.  For high schools I think they should teach the courses in a way in September so that if they have to switch online they can do it easily by using those courses.

And for me to be honest I’m hoping for elementary they go to a modified approach for elementary.  My son needs to be back around his friends, but it also reduces the risk a bit.  I know it’s not ideal for many but it’s a good compromise


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## bababear_50

As an employee I am anxiously awaiting the government's direction and safe plans on reopening schools.
BUT
I am questioning my own actions for even thinking about returning to school in Sept.

"Health Minister Patty Hajdu urged Canadians to choose less and safer contact with others, and to avoid smaller spaces."

"Ask yourself before you go out this weekend, is what I'm about to do worth the risk? Is the worth the risk that I might end up very sick or someone within my circle will?"

My scenario
16 -17 kids in a very small classroom (from the photos I've seen the desks are 2 feet apart,,not enough space to do 2 metres ). Floor carpet removed,,,window air conditioner for medically fragile child. (no special hepa filtre on air conditioning). One girl/one boy washroom for 4-5 classrooms.(80-100 kids).
No masks for kids indicated so far.
Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.

So yeah government please wheel out those plans because we are a tad anxious/nervous here.


Hugs 
Mel


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## wdwmom3

bababear_50 said:


> As an employee I am anxiously awaiting the government's direction and safe plans on reopening schools.
> BUT
> I am questioning my own actions for even thinking about returning to school in Sept.
> 
> "Health Minister Patty Hajdu urged Canadians to choose less and safer contact with others, and to avoid smaller spaces."
> 
> "Ask yourself before you go out this weekend, is what I'm about to do worth the risk? Is the worth the risk that I might end up very sick or someone within my circle will?"
> 
> My scenario
> 16 -17 kids in a very small classroom (from the photos I've seen the desks are 2 feet apart,,not enough space to do 2 metres ). Floor carpet removed,,,window air conditioner for medically fragile child. (no special hepa filtre on air conditioning). One girl/one boy washroom for 4-5 classrooms.(80-100 kids).
> No masks for kids indicated so far.
> Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.
> 
> So yeah government please wheel out those plans because we are a tad anxious/nervous here.
> 
> 
> Hugs
> Mel



See this is why I hope for a modified approach.  I feel a lot of kids needs to go back at least part time.  For their mental health and development.  I’ve noticed a change in my son, he’s gotten a bit better since his sports teams have started practice.  But he’s begging to go back to school, which he never has before. 

A modified approach would allow for more spacing.  They normally have 20-25 kids in the class, so that would mean 10-13 kids at a time in the same size classrooms. And if they are only spending time with those kids and only have one teacher it cuts down the risk a lot. I do think teachers should be given PPE to wear though. And couldn’t they put those air purifiers in each room?


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## CanadaDisney05

wdwmom3 said:


> See this is why I hope for a modified approach.  I feel a lot of kids needs to go back at least part time.  For their mental health and development.  I’ve noticed a change in my son, he’s gotten a bit better since his sports teams have started practice.  But he’s begging to go back to school, which he never has before.
> 
> A modified approach would allow for more spacing.  They normally have 20-25 kids in the class, so that would mean 10-13 kids at a time in the same size classrooms. And if they are only spending time with those kids and only have one teacher it cuts down the risk a lot. I do think teachers should be given PPE to wear though. And couldn’t they put those air purifiers in each room?


How do parents go to work if kids are only in school 2 days a week?


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## Jrb1979

CanadaDisney05 said:


> How do parents go to work if kids are only in school 2 days a week?


Parents will have to work opposite shifts if possible. That's what my wife and I do. She works mornings and I work afternoons. We have been doing for a few years and it works fine for us.


----------



## wdwmom3

CanadaDisney05 said:


> How do parents go to work if kids are only in school 2 days a week?


 I said it’s not ideal for everyone.  I get that.  I’m talking strictly from a health and well being of children.  It’s a middle ground.  Much better then no school.


----------



## Kaadk

CanadaDisney05 said:


> How do parents go to work if kids are only in school 2 days a week?


Same way they have been all along during summer vacations, march breaks, and basically the past several months.  Personally, my job has me working out of the house, unless I need to go onsite to a client site, which has been less and less over the years even before the pandemic put a stop to all travel.  But I'm a fringe case.

Based on what I see other families use, you're looking at:

1) Split shift when possible (for those that work shift work)
2) Babysitters
3) Daycare (if available with all the other closures out there, and yeah, these aren't going to be any better, possibly even worse, for preventing exposure than the schools will be).
4) Letting kids watch themselves (if old enough)

Or they might be using a hybrid of the various above options.  Like, one family I know works split shifts, but their shifts aren't aligned.  Their kids are old enough (11-12) to be by themselves for the slightly less than an hour that the two parent's shifts overlap, but not old enough to be by themselves for a full workday.  I've also seen parents drop kids off at grandparents (babysitter model) for a few hours each day.  A single mother I know has her neighbour watch her daughter on days she's working and not in school.  Etc...

Schools only run like 2/3rds of the year, the other 1/3 of the time, parents are already accommodating.


----------



## CanadaDisney05

Jrb1979 said:


> Parents will have to work opposite shifts if possible. That's what my wife and I do. She works mornings and I work afternoons. We have been doing for a few years and it works fine for us.


That's nice that your employer's offer that kind of flexibility.



wdwmom3 said:


> I said it’s not ideal for everyone.  I get that.  I’m talking strictly from a health and well being of children.  It’s a middle ground.  Much better then no school.



While I generally agree with the sentiment, I don't think this is something that doesn't just work for some.  I think it doesn't work for most.  I don't have any statistics, but my assumption is that most families with school aged children are dual income households.  The vast majority of the work force works during "business hours" and doesn't have the flexibility of shifts.

I don't know what the solution is.  It's a really hard one.  But the 2 days in, 3 days at home won't work for most families as any sort of semi-long term solution.


----------



## wdwmom3

Kaadk said:


> Same way they have been all along during summer vacations, march breaks, and basically the past several months.  Personally, my job has me working out of the house, unless I need to go onsite to a client site, which has been less and less over the years even before the pandemic put a stop to all travel.  But I'm a fringe case.
> 
> Based on what I see other families use, you're looking at:
> 
> 1) Split shift when possible (for those that work shift work)
> 2) Babysitters
> 3) Daycare (if available with all the other closures out there, and yeah, these aren't going to be any better, possibly even worse, for preventing exposure than the schools will be).
> 4) Letting kids watch themselves (if old enough)
> 
> Or they might be using a hybrid of the various above options.  Like, one family I know works split shifts, but their shifts aren't aligned.  Their kids are old enough (11-12) to be by themselves for the slightly less than an hour that the two parent's shifts overlap, but not old enough to be by themselves for a full workday.  I've also seen parents drop kids off at grandparents (babysitter model) for a few hours each day.  A single mother I know has her neighbour watch her daughter on days she's working and not in school.  Etc...
> 
> Schools only run like 2/3rds of the year, the other 1/3 of the time, parents are already accommodating.



Agree!  Like I said a reduced school schedule isn’t ideal.  But as parents we can figure it out. We always have.  And we need to remember that teaches aren’t babysitters.  They are there to teach our kids not take care of them while we work.  

I know our school board has said they have been discussing their model with the extended daycare providers (in school before and after and pd day care) and they are working out a model that works for them as well.  So parents will have options.


----------



## wdwmom3

CanadaDisney05 said:


> That's nice that your employer's offer that kind of flexibility.
> 
> 
> 
> While I generally agree with the sentiment, I don't think this is something that doesn't just work for some.  I think it doesn't work for most.  I don't have any statistics, but my assumption is that most families with school aged children are dual income households.  The vast majority of the work force works during "business hours" and doesn't have the flexibility of shifts.
> 
> I don't know what the solution is.  It's a really hard one.  But the 2 days in, 3 days at home won't work for most families as any sort of semi-long term solution.



And right now a lot people are working from home and probably will continue to do so.

Oh and our school isn’t just proposing 2 days.  One week 2 days, next week 3.  So out of a 2 week period it’s only 5 weekdays kids aren’t in school.  So in a 2 parent family it would mean that each parent would only need to take 1 - 2 days off. And like I said they are working on care options for parents who need it.


----------



## CanadaDisney05

Kaadk said:


> Same way they have been all along during summer vacations, march breaks, and basically the past several months.  Personally, my job has me working out of the house, unless I need to go onsite to a client site, which has been less and less over the years even before the pandemic put a stop to all travel.  But I'm a fringe case.
> 
> Based on what I see other families use, you're looking at:
> 
> 1) Split shift when possible (for those that work shift work)
> 2) Babysitters
> 3) Daycare (if available with all the other closures out there, and yeah, these aren't going to be any better, possibly even worse, for preventing exposure than the schools will be).
> 4) Letting kids watch themselves (if old enough)
> 
> Or they might be using a hybrid of the various above options.  Like, one family I know works split shifts, but their shifts aren't aligned.  Their kids are old enough (11-12) to be by themselves for the slightly less than an hour that the two parent's shifts overlap, but not old enough to be by themselves for a full workday.  I've also seen parents drop kids off at grandparents (babysitter model) for a few hours each day.  A single mother I know has her neighbour watch her daughter on days she's working and not in school.  Etc...
> 
> Schools only run like 2/3rds of the year, the other 1/3 of the time, parents are already accommodating.



Generally, society has accommodated those breaks by having things like daycare, camps, etc....  Like you mentioned, those accommodations don't work for this situation.  It was one thing when this thing just popped up in March and there was no time to plan.  Most people were working from home and while it was less than ideal, people made it work as we were in midst of an emergency.  By the time September comes around, it will have been nearly 6 months since the original lock downs occurred.  I don't think if this is going to go on for a year or so that we are going to just be able to tell anyone with kids under the age of 13 that one of the parents has to exit the workforce.


----------



## CanadaDisney05

wdwmom3 said:


> And right now a lot people are working from home and probably will continue to do so.


a lot are working from home.  But a much larger percentage of the workforce is no longer working at home.


----------



## wdwmom3

CanadaDisney05 said:


> a lot are working from home.  But a much larger percentage of the workforce is no longer working at home.



What do parents do on March break, Christmas break, pd days, the summer, when their kids are sick ? They figure stuff out.  Parents will figure this out too.  It may mean their kids are in a program on the other days.  But it’s important to keep everyone including our teachers safe.


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## bababear_50

True we are not babysitters and it is ultimately up to parents how to schedule and work out their own best plans.

It concerns me that sometimes parents have a lack of current knowledge regarding schools:

Did you ever wonder how many kids are housed in Portables with no air conditioning/washrooms/sinks ?

Did you know there are many, many schools with no air conditioning in them?

Did you know we do not have sick rooms/ health rooms in schools?

Did you know we do not have Nurses in our schools.?

Did you Know staff can NOT give your child OTC medications
And putting advil/tylenol,,gummy vitamins in their lunch bag is dangerous.
(kids do like to share).

Did you know that if you have a prescription medication for your child that a doctor's form with dosage / times and their signature needs to be submitted to the school.

Did you know that as a parent you are responsible for picking your child up or having an emergency child care provider authorized to do so immediately.?

Did you know that even though we now have 3/4 year olds attending schools the number of toilets and sinks never increased to a standard ratio that the government guidelines require in licensed Daycares?

Do you know how much time a custodian is given to clean your child's class each day or maybe every other day or two?

Did you know as staff we have never been allowed anything stronger than water and vinegar to wipe an area down? (Per health and safety regulations).

Did you know that many parents forget to notify the school when they change jobs or get a new telephone number. It's the parents responsibility to update the school.
"Oh I haven't had that number in 2 years"



I do think more parents should be asking these and more questions.

So much to take into consideration here.

Hugs
Mel


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## wdwmom3

bababear_50 said:


> True we are not babysitters and it is ultimately up to parents how to schedule and work out their own best plans.
> 
> It concerns me that sometimes parents have a lack of current knowledge regarding schools:
> 
> Did you ever wonder how many kids are housed in Portables with no air conditioning/washrooms/sinks ?
> 
> Did you know there are many, many schools with no air conditioning in them?
> 
> Did you know we do not have sick rooms/ health rooms in schools?
> 
> Did you know we do not have Nurses in our schools.?
> 
> Did you know that as a parent you are responsible for picking your child up or having an emergency child care provider authorized to do so immediately.?
> 
> Did you know that even though we now have 3/4 year olds attending schools the number of toilets and sinks never increased to a standard ratio that the government guidelines require in licensed Daycares?
> 
> So much to take into consideration here.
> 
> Hugs
> Mel



I only know about my kids schools. Some have AC here, some don’t. And some only have AC in some areas. There has been a push here (before covid) to get AC in all schools.  Some schools here have portables, but they are usually for older kids (none at my sons school).  His school does have a room off the office where they can go if they don’t feel well.  And I hope parents would know they need to come pick up their kids in case of an emergency or if they are sick.  And I don’t know about the washroom ratios.  But I do know in the schools my kids went to the classrooms with 3 & 4 year olds had their own washrooms and sinks right in the classroom. 

Teachers do have a hard job especially now. That’s why I think reducing the number of the kids to half at a time would make some of those things easier. I think as parents we should be trying to help teachers out this way.


----------



## bababear_50

wdwmom3 said:


> I only know about my kids schools. Some have AC here, some don’t. And some only have AC in some areas. There has been a push here (before covid) to get AC in all schools.  Some schools here have portables, but they are usually for older kids (none at my sons school).  His school does have a room off the office where they can go if they don’t feel well.  And I hope parents would know they need to come pick up their kids in case of an emergency or if they are sick.  And I don’t know about the washroom ratios.  But I do know in the schools my kids went to the classrooms with 3 & 4 year olds had their own washrooms and sinks right in the classroom.
> 
> Teachers do have a hard job especially now. That’s why I think reducing the number of the kids to half at a time would make some of those things easier. I think as parents we should be trying to help teachers out this way.



Hi
Yes most schools have those little extra rooms off the office,,,they are now being used as photocopying /paper/storage areas.
Health & Safety requires that an adult monitor a child (falls concussion ,fever/vomiting etc) so now kids just sit on a chair in the office area where the Office managers work.

All kids now carry on themselves their Epipens. (Per health & Safety). We do all know how to administers them per training. Some students carry their own inhalers and some are stored in their classroom.,again we have all received training on how to administer these.
Named “*Sabrina's Law*,” it was signed into effect on January 1, 2006. *Sabrina's Law* requires that every school board in Ontario establish and maintain an anaphylaxis policy to help students with serious allergies. It also requires that schools create individual plans for each student at risk of anaphylaxis.
*Ryan's Law* is an *Ontario*, Canada *law* that forces schools to allow children to have their inhalers with them. It is named after *Ryan* Gibbons of Straffordville, *Ontario* who died on 9 October 2012 aged 12, because his school would not let him carry his inhaler with him. 



Covid 19 present a problem in that the child who is sick must be isolated until the parent/guardian picks them up. This can not be done in the office area now,,and who will supervise them until a parent arrives is still unknown. Will the custodian have the time and resources to clean the area?

I am going to be honest with you,,,NO not all parents come and pick their child up when they are sick,,yes I try to empathize with parents today but I think during this Pandemic parents will not be given 2-4 hours to come and get their child.

Hugs
Mel


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## hdrolfe

I'm a single parent, I am lucky that I can work from home currently, and my employer should be flexible to allow this going forward. In the past my son was in before/after care for school because I couldn't do drop off and pick up at school and work a full day. However that shut down at March break. I would also put him in camps during the summer, which isn't happening this year either and won't be during the school year. I do not see how a part time in school schedule will work for the daycares, his was in the school and shared space with the library and a couple classrooms. I am assuming they will need that space for classrooms to accommodate smaller class sizes. 

My son, who hates school, was asking when he can go back. He wants to see friends and be able to play. He will not do online learning, if he doesn't go to school, he won't do any of the work. He has ADHD, ODD, Anxiety... he needs to be active and he needs to be structured. I have read the school boards plans and they seem comprehensive to me, if teachers go back then I hope they have 5 days a week, or at least the 2/3 split. The plans they have for doing some in class and some online do seem good, it's just a question of getting my son to actually do it. Perhaps having to keep up with the rest of his cohort the days he is in class will encourage that. I realize my son is not average, but every parent friend I have and have spoken to had problems getting at least one of their children to do the work. Some families has to have one parent stop working, or do part time in off hours, which is not always possible for all families. I wish I could homeschool, I would love to do it, but there is no way my son will go for it. I also looked at some of the private schools but they are way too expensive for us. 

I understood Ford was suggesting that perhaps outdoor classes would be an idea for September, Canadian weather is unpredictable though so that may not happen very many days a week. It is an interesting idea, I think if the climate allowed it would be a great idea.


----------



## pigletto

CanadaDisney05 said:


> Generally, society has accommodated those breaks by having things like daycare, camps, etc....  Like you mentioned, those accommodations don't work for this situation.  It was one thing when this thing just popped up in March and there was no time to plan.  Most people were working from home and while it was less than ideal, people made it work as we were in midst of an emergency.  By the time September comes around, it will have been nearly 6 months since the original lock downs occurred.  I don't think if this is going to go on for a year or so that we are going to just be able to tell anyone with kids under the age of 13 that one of the parents has to exit the workforce.


Which is a great argument to petition our government with ... we need a different solution . However,  it is not an argument just to throw everyone back in school full time and hope it works out.


----------



## bababear_50

hdrolfe said:


> I'm a single parent, I am lucky that I can work from home currently, and my employer should be flexible to allow this going forward. In the past my son was in before/after care for school because I couldn't do drop off and pick up at school and work a full day. However that shut down at March break. I would also put him in camps during the summer, which isn't happening this year either and won't be during the school year. I do not see how a part time in school schedule will work for the daycares, his was in the school and shared space with the library and a couple classrooms. I am assuming they will need that space for classrooms to accommodate smaller class sizes.
> 
> My son, who hates school, was asking when he can go back. He wants to see friends and be able to play. He will not do online learning, if he doesn't go to school, he won't do any of the work. He has ADHD, ODD, Anxiety... he needs to be active and he needs to be structured. I have read the school boards plans and they seem comprehensive to me, if teachers go back then I hope they have 5 days a week, or at least the 2/3 split. The plans they have for doing some in class and some online do seem good, it's just a question of getting my son to actually do it. Perhaps having to keep up with the rest of his cohort the days he is in class will encourage that. I realize my son is not average, but every parent friend I have and have spoken to had problems getting at least one of their children to do the work. Some families has to have one parent stop working, or do part time in off hours, which is not always possible for all families. I wish I could homeschool, I would love to do it, but there is no way my son will go for it. I also looked at some of the private schools but they are way too expensive for us.
> 
> I understood Ford was suggesting that perhaps outdoor classes would be an idea for September, Canadian weather is unpredictable though so that may not happen very many days a week. It is an interesting idea, I think if the climate allowed it would be a great idea.



Hi Hon
I would definitely put an email or phone call into your son's school.
I'm thinking the stay in one classroom and very little movement throughout the school (washroom only) is going to definitely impact kids with ADHD and ODD. It looks like staff will be the ones moving around from one class to another to minimize traffic.

You could ask if any more staff resources are going to be available at your school and where physical breaks when needed will be and supervised by whom.
I know we used to use the library a lot but it has now been designated storage as library circulation is out due to Covid 19. (All those carpets,tables etc had to go somewhere).
Our gym space right now may end up being before and after school care ONLY due to cleaning restrictions.

I think most gym classes will be outside.
Again health will probably be in their home form classroom.
But I'm guessing on this.

Just my two cents but most of my guys with ADHD ODD do well with 1/2 day (morning) high work structure expectations,,then lots of physical activity in the (afternoon).
If schools reopen Hybrid would you be open to him attending 5 half days and do you think the school would go for it?

Also check his IEP to see if it gives any ideas.

Hang in the Hon
Hugs
Mel


----------



## bababear_50

Parents
Buy school bags that are big enough to hold your kids stuff please.
Every year we get kids who come with very cute and cuddly bags but nothing fits in the bag,,,parents end up spending more money to get a new one.
Things that could go in a kids bag
extra shoes
extra clothes
2 snacks
lunch bag
1 text book,,older kids a Chromebook or laptop
water bottle,,fountains will be turned off and some school will have the new water bottle filling station. Buy a good one that doesn't leak,,,,test at home.
Duotangs/workbooks.

younger grades send Kleenex tissues,,not all classes have funds for this.
label all belongings


P.S.
School bags and lunch bags CAN be put in the washing machine,,,,,
the things I have seen growing on these would curl your hair.
Hugs
Mel


----------



## mshanson3121

wdwmom3 said:


> What do parents do on March break, Christmas break, pd days, the summer, when their kids are sick ? They figure stuff out.  Parents will figure this out too.  It may mean their kids are in a program on the other days.  But it’s important to keep everyone including our teachers safe.



This. They send the kids to daycare and that's what they'll do now. It's actually not that difficult of a problem, aside from the increased cost. That said I wouldn't be surprised if there's some assistance for that. Granted, if the kids are going to be in daycare, they may as well be in school. It's the same risk. 

Here in NB, schools are going back as normal in the fall for the most part. K-8 will go to school, full day, with smaller class sizes, no distancing required per se but with bubbles. So they're going to stagger arrival, departure, break and lunch times. And they'll only be able to socialize within their class. 

High school students will do blended delivery, part in class, part online, with full distancing required.


----------



## Best_Vacation_EVER!

hdrolfe said:


> I'm a single parent, I am lucky that I can work from home currently, and my employer should be flexible to allow this going forward. In the past my son was in before/after care for school because I couldn't do drop off and pick up at school and work a full day. However that shut down at March break. I would also put him in camps during the summer, which isn't happening this year either and won't be during the school year. I do not see how a part time in school schedule will work for the daycares, his was in the school and shared space with the library and a couple classrooms. I am assuming they will need that space for classrooms to accommodate smaller class sizes.
> 
> My son, who hates school, was asking when he can go back. He wants to see friends and be able to play. He will not do online learning, if he doesn't go to school, he won't do any of the work. He has ADHD, ODD, Anxiety... he needs to be active and he needs to be structured. I have read the school boards plans and they seem comprehensive to me, if teachers go back then I hope they have 5 days a week, or at least the 2/3 split. The plans they have for doing some in class and some online do seem good, it's just a question of getting my son to actually do it. Perhaps having to keep up with the rest of his cohort the days he is in class will encourage that. I realize my son is not average, but every parent friend I have and have spoken to had problems getting at least one of their children to do the work. Some families has to have one parent stop working, or do part time in off hours, which is not always possible for all families. I wish I could homeschool, I would love to do it, but there is no way my son will go for it. I also looked at some of the private schools but they are way too expensive for us.
> 
> I understood Ford was suggesting that perhaps outdoor classes would be an idea for September, Canadian weather is unpredictable though so that may not happen very many days a week. It is an interesting idea, I think if the climate allowed it would be a great idea.



While not a single parent our DS14 is ADHD so we get that (although he doesn't have the ODD diagnosis) ... but we've been able to deal with the ADHD through multiple mitigations (which we've paid for ourselves like OT, tutoring, etc....) over the years.... to get him to be pretty disciplined with his school stuff.   This situation has thrown a total monkey wrench for us.  DS needs to be at school as he definitely needs the structure.   He's super smart, but needs the structure.   Fortunately he's still kept in contact with his friends which has been good as far as the social/mental health aspect.   He's moving to grade 9 which means moving to semesters... which in and of itself is an adjustment.... so we really hope the in-class options are workable.

If there was a realm in which I thought that what we could do as much for him through homeschooling we'd definitely do it but we realize our limitations (and greatly appreciate the great work his teachers do) so based on what we saw as far as at home learning in the spring this wouldn't be an option for us.  We've talked a lot about how important masks, hygiene, etc...  are and how they work and why being socially responsible matters (he was already pretty keen on personal cleanliness and respecting the danger of the virus before) so I'm fairly confident he'll follow protocol and we've ordered enough ATSM 2 masks to last him through the school year.   I just want to see the details of what's in the works....


----------



## Madame

My children will not be returning to in person.  My kids are 13/10/10 and will stay at home.  I know that others do not have this choice, but by keeping my kids at home they are less at risk & it frees up more space in their classrooms for other kids who have less choice.  

Both DH & I will work during the day. The 13 yo is an independent learner who will not require much assistance. I will be doing my boys’ school work with them after work. Any synchronous learning will not work for us - no one will be home to help them log on & set up. We’ll see how they do with any synchronous sessions, but I am preparing to teach the content myself on weekends & after work.

Every parent must make his/her own decision RE Sept, but everyone needs to understand that class will NOT be normal.  Students MUST remain seated, will NOT be allowed to share supplies, CANNOT wander around the room, WILL have set washroom breaks.  NO group work/paired work.  I don’t even know if we can pass out photocopied paper yet.  My boys would NOT do well in this environment.  The constant stress of following the rules & worrying about getting sick or getting someone else sick negates completely the possible gains in socialization/mental health.


----------



## wdwmom3

Madame said:


> My children will not be returning to in person.  My kids are 13/10/10 and will stay at home.  I know that others do not have this choice, but by keeping my kids at home they are less at risk & it frees up more space in their classrooms for other kids who have less choice.
> 
> Both DH & I will work during the day. The 13 yo is an independent learner who will not require much assistance. I will be doing my boys’ school work with them after work. Any synchronous learning will not work for us - no one will be home to help them log on & set up. We’ll see how they do with any synchronous sessions, but I am preparing to teach the content myself on weekends & after work.
> 
> Every parent must make his/her own decision RE Sept, but everyone needs to understand that class will NOT be normal.  Students MUST remain seated, will NOT be allowed to share supplies, CANNOT wander around the room, WILL have set washroom breaks.  NO group work/paired work.  I don’t even know if we can pass out photocopied paper yet.  My boys would NOT do well in this environment.  The constant stress of following the rules & worrying about getting sick or getting someone else sick negates completely the possible gains in socialization/mental health.



I’m not sure where you are located but not all schools will operate in the manner you described. The discussions here in Ontario are suggesting that under a modified approach (with less then 15 kids in a class) that the class would be treated as a “bubble” and within that bubble kids can be kids.  Meaning they can move around, play with others etc.  This is how daycares that have been open for essential workers have been operating.  Now of course that’s for elementary school kids.  

I agree every parent needs to make the decision that’s best for their family.


----------



## pigletto

Madame said:


> My children will not be returning to in person.  My kids are 13/10/10 and will stay at home.  I know that others do not have this choice, but by keeping my kids at home they are less at risk & it frees up more space in their classrooms for other kids who have less choice.
> 
> Both DH & I will work during the day. The 13 yo is an independent learner who will not require much assistance. I will be doing my boys’ school work with them after work. Any synchronous learning will not work for us - no one will be home to help them log on & set up. We’ll see how they do with any synchronous sessions, but I am preparing to teach the content myself on weekends & after work.
> 
> Every parent must make his/her own decision RE Sept, but everyone needs to understand that class will NOT be normal.  Students MUST remain seated, will NOT be allowed to share supplies, CANNOT wander around the room, WILL have set washroom breaks.  NO group work/paired work.  I don’t even know if we can pass out photocopied paper yet.  My boys would NOT do well in this environment.  The constant stress of following the rules & worrying about getting sick or getting someone else sick negates completely the possible gains in socialization/mental health.


You bring up a point I hadn’t considered .. the stress of being in that environment with all of the new rules and protocols and the added fear of being sick or making someone else sick . That’s is a lot to deal with for a child . Heck.. look what a hard time we are having with it as adults !

I will be really candid , I don’t think I want my 16 year old to go back. I don’t think the benefit outweighs the potential risks. He‘s strong and healthy and I am not overly concerned about him getting sick but I am concerned about him being any part of a second wave. Even if the board and the school opens up as carefully and safely as they can ( which I’m not convinced they are given that they’ve said masks aren’t necessary ) I don‘t think it’s enough. We will have to stop seeing grandparents on both sides the minute he goes back too . 

But he really struggled with the online learning and wants the benefit of in person instruction for things like grade 11 chemistry and math etc . Plus he‘s French Immersion and we don’t speak French so we can’t help him as much as we could if it were in English . He’s a really strong student but he doesn’t know how to prioritize self directed learning so he would would make everything of the utmost importance and spend hours and hours on things that just didn’t need that much attention. There was very little online help . I would hope this year would be different but who knows.


----------



## scrappinginontario

When did the border opening thread turn into a returning to school thread?  Should these be separate?


----------



## AngelDisney

quandrea said:


> One thing I don’t understand about high school is that an Ontario e-learning consortium exists (dd takes courses with them) and the Independent Learning Centre exists. These groups have the full complement of high school courses written and ready to deploy. Why are these not being used by every board in Ontario?  Seems like it would save money and work very well for virtual learning. The courses through the consortium are excellent. Can’t speak to the ILC. Why does each board have to reinvent the wheel.
> 
> My daughter will be home for her last year of high school. My younger two homeschool.


It’s all about equity and accessibility. We have students who don’t have access to electronic devices at home. Some families have many kids who need to compete for electronic use. I had students whose parents worked from home and they couldn’t join the virtual class meets. I posted the recordings but it’s just not the same. The platform the Ministry uses has lessons and activities that are very language loaded. As a teacher I can see how a special need student or English language learner would be overwhelmed with all the readings. I didn’t realize these issues until I had students who didn’t have access until 3 weeks after distance learning started as they finally got a loaned device from the school board. There are also students with mental health issues who are overly stressed by online learning. They need the one-on-one support, but teachers are advised not to virtual meet with only one student. I actually had parents who opted their children out of distance learning. elearning is not for everyone.


----------



## pigletto

scrappinginontario said:


> When did the border opening thread turn into a returning to school thread?  Should these be separate?


I think the conversation naturally evolved as these things tend to do over the course of many threads. If it’s an issue I’m sure another thread could be created easily.

Eta.. in fact I will create one as I am sure this will be a ongoing discussion.


----------



## LuvMyEAR

scrappinginontario said:


> When did the border opening thread turn into a returning to school thread?  Should these be separate?



This thread has indeed “evolved” and I for one think it should have a life (thread) of its own. School reopening is a topic that is timely and touches probably >75% of DisBoarders.

Not a day goes by that my family does not count their blessing that all 3 school-age members (my grandchildren)  are:
1. excellent, motivated students, with no difficulty learning through multiple content delivery methods
2. In high school
3. Perhaps most important of all, in excellent health and physical condition

And every single day we think about the parents who are struggling to make arrangements (and choices) that allow them to provide both education and financial security for their families. Our hearts are with you, as we all wait for a vaccine which will allow us to reach a level of stability again.


----------



## Madame

wdwmom3 said:


> I’m not sure where you are located but not all schools will operate in the manner you described. The discussions here in Ontario are suggesting that under a modified approach (with less then 15 kids in a class) that the class would be treated as a “bubble” and within that bubble kids can be kids.  Meaning they can move around, play with others etc.  This is how daycares that have been open for essential workers have been operating.  Now of course that’s for elementary school kids.
> 
> I agree every parent needs to make the decision that’s best for their family.


I am an ON teacher.  I teach at one board, my kids go to 2 other boards - imagine the cross-contamination there....  That bubble is a fiction.
TCDSB trustees just voted to return with no change to pre-Covid class sizes.


----------



## quandrea

AngelDisney said:


> It’s all about equity and accessibility. We have students who don’t have access to electronic devices at home. Some families have many kids who need to compete for electronic use. I had students whose parents worked from home and they couldn’t join the virtual class meets. I posted the recordings but it’s just not the same. The platform the Ministry uses has lessons and activities that are very language loaded. As a teacher I can see how a special need student or English language learner would be overwhelmed with all the readings. I didn’t realize these issues until I had students who didn’t have access until 3 weeks after distance learning started as they finally got a loaned device from the school board. There are also students with mental health issues who are overly stressed by online learning. They need the one-on-one support, but teachers are advised not to virtual meet with only one student. I actually had parents who opted their children out of distance learning. elearning is not for everyone.


I understand that. But for those students choosing e-learning, the courses are there. No need for board by board solutions.


----------



## wdwmom3

Madame said:


> I am an ON teacher.  I teach at one board, my kids go to 2 other boards - imagine the cross-contamination there....  That bubble is a fiction.
> TCDSB trustees just voted to return with no change to pre-Covid class sizes.



Well the final decision is not being made by the school board.


----------



## Madame

wdwmom3 said:


> Well the final decision is not being made by the school board.


No, but there is no funding for anything but pre-Covid ratios or staggered instruction - every other day or week which the gov has deemed unacceptable.  This has set precedent - other boards will now be expected to follow this same path as the government will claim this has been shown to be the will of the school boards.  Best part is, they voted via Zoom.


----------



## wdwmom3

Madame said:


> No, but there is no funding for anything but pre-Covid ratios or staggered instruction - every other day or week which the gov has deemed unacceptable.  This has set precedent - other boards will now be expected to follow this same path as the government will claim this has been shown to be the will of the school boards.  Best part is, they voted via Zoom.



The government has not deemed every other day or week unacceptable.  They have just said they would prefer every day, but it will depend on what is happening.  And just because Toronto decided on something doesn’t mean other school boards have to follow. I get you are a teacher but you don’t know what is happening in every board, in fact nobody does because a final decision has not been made.  

I think we all need to wait and see what happens.


----------



## Madame

wdwmom3 said:


> The government has not deemed every other day or week unacceptable.  They have just said they would prefer every day, but it will depend on what is happening.  And just because Toronto decided on something doesn’t mean other school boards have to follow. I get you are a teacher but you don’t know what is happening in every board, in fact nobody does because a final decision has not been made.
> 
> I think we all need to wait and see what happens.


Ok.


----------



## AngelDisney

quandrea said:


> I understand that. But for those students choosing e-learning, the courses are there. No need for board by board solutions.


Probably it’s too late to start the hiring process. Day schools are separate from elearning virtual school. Not many teachers can switch modes of teaching and this may bring up issues with unions as day school teachers will be laid off then some may get hired as elearning teachers.


----------



## Sue M

scrappinginontario said:


> When did the border opening thread turn into a returning to school thread?  Should these be separate?


I was thinking the same thing.


----------



## bardays

It seems like a pretty loose closure. Here is BC, I know someone who lives across the border and works in Canada. He is NOT essential and crosses several days a week.


----------



## bcwife76

An epidemiologist at UofT recently tweeted about what would happen if Canada opened the border, how the cases would go up in Ontario right away. She thinks that if the US can get their total daily cases to between 1,000 and 10,000 a day that would be a good time to start to reopen the border.
https://globalnews.ca/news/7217407/coronavirus-canada-us-border-modelling/


----------



## BLAZEY

hdrolfe said:


> I'm a single parent, I am lucky that I can work from home currently, and my employer should be flexible to allow this going forward. In the past my son was in before/after care for school because I couldn't do drop off and pick up at school and work a full day. However that shut down at March break. I would also put him in camps during the summer, which isn't happening this year either and won't be during the school year. I do not see how a part time in school schedule will work for the daycares, his was in the school and shared space with the library and a couple classrooms. I am assuming they will need that space for classrooms to accommodate smaller class sizes.
> 
> My son, who hates school, was asking when he can go back. He wants to see friends and be able to play. He will not do online learning, if he doesn't go to school, he won't do any of the work. He has ADHD, ODD, Anxiety... he needs to be active and he needs to be structured. I have read the school boards plans and they seem comprehensive to me, if teachers go back then I hope they have 5 days a week, or at least the 2/3 split. The plans they have for doing some in class and some online do seem good, it's just a question of getting my son to actually do it. Perhaps having to keep up with the rest of his cohort the days he is in class will encourage that. I realize my son is not average, but every parent friend I have and have spoken to had problems getting at least one of their children to do the work. Some families has to have one parent stop working, or do part time in off hours, which is not always possible for all families. I wish I could homeschool, I would love to do it, but there is no way my son will go for it. I also looked at some of the private schools but they are way too expensive for us.
> 
> I understood Ford was suggesting that perhaps outdoor classes would be an idea for September, Canadian weather is unpredictable though so that may not happen very many days a week. It is an interesting idea, I think if the climate allowed it would be a great idea.


We're in BC. My daughter is almost the girl version of you son. While not a single parent, she sometimes needs to be prodded to get school work done, especially writing assignments. She'll be going into grade 6, which here is the start of middle school. She not a huge fan of school but is wanting to go back just to see friends. We didn't send her back for 8 classes when the reopened in June, as she was able to get work done online. She had a great teacher for the past 2 years that "got" her. I want her to go back, she wants to go back. I want to be able to find out who her teacher is and get her used to the new school. No orientation was done at the middle school for incoming grade 6 students.  I worked from home in April, but have been back to the office since mid May. She has been staying home alone, but my office is 5 minutes away and grannie is halfway between our home and my office. She also has been given my old cell so she can message and Facetime if she needs anything. I want to find out if the kids are going back to school before I spend a bunch of money on school supplies and new clothes for her.


----------



## Dismrk155

bcwife76 said:


> An epidemiologist at UofT recently tweeted about what would happen if Canada opened the border, how the cases would go up in Ontario right away. She thinks that if the US can get their total daily cases to between 1,000 and 10,000 a day that would be a good time to start to reopen the border.
> https://globalnews.ca/news/7217407/coronavirus-canada-us-border-modelling/


On line gambling sites show earliest border opening is in February 2020. Sounds like a good bet.


----------



## bcwife76

Dismrk155 said:


> On line gambling sites show earliest border opening is in February 2020. Sounds like a good bet.


You mean February 2021 right? ;-) 

Why am I not surprised there are online gambling sites about this


----------



## FredQc

bcwife76 said:


> You mean February 2021 right? ;-)
> 
> Why am I not surprised there are online gambling sites about this



According to the report from CBC News, the U.S.-Canada border may remain closed for, at least, six more months, that is, up to February 2021. The report is based on views from some experts; no official information.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/canada-u-s-border-travel-couples-alaska-1.5670867


----------



## bcwife76

FredQc said:


> According to the report from CBC News, the U.S.-Canada border may remain closed for, at least, six more months, that is, up to February 2021. The report is based on views from some experts; no official information.
> 
> https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/canada-u-s-border-travel-couples-alaska-1.5670867


Beat me to it, I just read this article and was coming here to post the same.


----------



## Cdn Gal

I would be surprised  if it opened by Feb 21st.  Just spoke with a border official today and he said that Americans are still trying to cross over to Canada and stay here.  They think because they own property in Canada they should be able to cross.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

I just read this article on cbc.ca: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/covid-19-vaccine-tam-1.5673729

Dr. Tam says masks, distancing, etc will be in effect for 2-3 years even with a vaccine! ugh.


----------



## Dismrk155

Cdn Gal said:


> I would be surprised  if it opened by Feb 21st.  Just spoke with a border official today and he said that Americans are still trying to cross over to Canada and stay here.  They think because they own property in Canada they should be able to cross.


Ignorant Americans. By the way I'm an American. Lol. Wanted to say more but someone would throw a hissy fit.


----------



## pigletto

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> I just read this article on cbc.ca: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/covid-19-vaccine-tam-1.5673729
> 
> Dr. Tam says masks, distancing, etc will be in effect for 2-3 years even with a vaccine! ugh.


----------



## quandrea

pigletto said:


> View attachment 515963


This morning they announced needles in arms most likely summer 2021. Longer timeline than I’d hoped.


----------



## Best_Vacation_EVER!

I think we've reached the point where our next vacation will be in Canada for sure maybe March 2021 ---- but going to the US still seems unfathomable at this point.... since you have to sort of accept that inter-US spread will move the virus to the responsible states from denier states for the foreseeable future --- and we don't want any part of that.    I guess that a majority of states have decided international tourism isn't worth it....  Hopefully it works out for them in the long run....


----------



## mshanson3121

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> I just read this article on cbc.ca: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/covid-19-vaccine-tam-1.5673729
> 
> Dr. Tam says masks, distancing, etc will be in effect for 2-3 years even with a vaccine! ugh.



Just finally got around to reading this, and honestly, this is just depressing. I fully admit, I keep hoping that there would be some semblance of normalcy next year. I didn't figure there'd be enough south of the border to make us willing to go there, but I did honestly hope that maybe masks and distancing wouldn't be as much of an issue next summer. It just raises so many questions. But, on the other hand, I'm also sure she is trying to give us the worst case scenario, so I suppose we can still hope things will improve sooner than anticipated.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Summer 2021 for a vaccine at least still gives me 6 months to our December 2021 WDW trip.  That is, if we are some of the select few who get a dose.


----------



## wdwmom3

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> Summer 2021 for a vaccine at least still gives me 6 months to our December 2021 WDW trip.  That is, if we are some of the select few who get a dose.



We have May 2021 booked. But will move it again if I have to. And the US could always start getting it sooner, and that would make the risk for us going lower as well. i’m just waiting.


----------



## damo

I honestly don't think they are going to get the turnout for vaccines even once they are produced.  People are going to be more afraid of the vaccine than of the virus by that point.


----------



## pigletto

mshanson3121 said:


> Just finally got around to reading this, and honestly, this is just depressing. I fully admit, I keep hoping that there would be some semblance of normalcy next year. I didn't figure there'd be enough south of the border to make us willing to go there, but I did honestly hope that maybe masks and distancing wouldn't be as much of an issue next summer. It just raises so many questions. But, on the other hand, I'm also sure she is trying to give us the worst case scenario, so I suppose we can still hope things will improve sooner than anticipated.


Totally agree on all points. It’s why I started my thread on other leisure travel. I hadn‘t even considered that we may be in the exact same place two years from now . Sigh.


----------



## hdrolfe

damo said:


> I honestly don't think they are going to get the turnout for vaccines even once they are produced.  People are going to be more afraid of the vaccine than of the virus by that point.



I believe I read that 32% of people won't get it when it's available? I think that was in Canada. I imagine the US will be worse, so yeah... And that of course is once it's produced in sufficient quantity for more than just essential workers.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

All I know is I really want to be able to work from home next summer  With or without an outbreak!


----------



## hdrolfe

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> All I know is I really want to be able to work from home next summer



I'd like to work from home forever... that is the one thing about all this I am actually enjoying. The rest? Not so much... but WFH... I love it.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

hdrolfe said:


> I'd like to work from home forever... that is the one thing about all this I am actually enjoying. The rest? Not so much... but WFH... I love it.



I would like it even more if DH was at work, and DD was at school!


----------



## wdwmom3

damo said:


> I honestly don't think they are going to get the turnout for vaccines even once they are produced.  People are going to be more afraid of the vaccine than of the virus by that point.



Hubby and I will be getting it as soon as we can.


----------



## Silvermist999

We had the flexibility before the pandemic to work from home as needed, for appointments etc., but I know most of my staff do not want to be working from home every single day, especially the ones who are single or childless.  Both DH and I have been advised by our respective employers that we will be at home indefinitely. Definitely makes it more challenging to get things done since we are both managing staff and it is way more convenient and effective to just walk over to have a quick discussion than using email or scheduling a call.


----------



## Donald - my hero

damo said:


> I honestly don't think they are going to get the turnout for vaccines even once they are produced.  People are going to be more afraid of the vaccine than of the virus by that point.


*Not me! I'll be lining up, in a chair, wrapped in a sleeping bag if need be! But then again I've been wearing a mask since before it was mandated, I'm all for doing what's best for the community as whole as well as myself. That includes getting vaccinated so i don't contribute to spreading a highly contagious virus.

**ETA, hubby, our daughter & her wife, our son & his wife agree as well! We'll line up and they can stick us all one after another make it a family affair   *


----------



## Silvermist999

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> I just read this article on cbc.ca: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/covid-19-vaccine-tam-1.5673729
> 
> Dr. Tam says masks, distancing, etc will be in effect for 2-3 years even with a vaccine! ugh.



This is depressing. I think I can believe that masks and distancing would somehow be our new normal.  What I truly despise having to do is having to sanitize the groceries. I used to like grocery shopping, price matching, air miles hunting.  Now I hate coming home with the groceries, it’s a half day ordeal. Hate it.


----------



## Donald - my hero

Silvermist999 said:


> This is depressing. I think I can believe that masks and distancing would somehow be our new normal.  What I truly despise having to do is having to sanitize the groceries. I used to like grocery shopping, price matching, air miles hunting.  Now I hate coming home with the groceries, it’s a half day ordeal. Hate it.


*I agree that it takes longer but I'm not spending an inordinate amount of time cleaning my groceries (not like that one video a dr posted months ago at this point, he was extremely over-the-top IMHO)
Before i head out i make sure i have 3 surfaces cleaned and ready to use when i get home -- make sure the cleaning product is safe for food surfaces! -- and leave them wet
I'm still buying about 2 weeks worth of food (more if it's on sale) so anything that doesn't need to be used immediately and will be stored at room temp goes onto the clean section of the dining table to sit for several days (aim for 3 at least or until i remember)

Everything else goes on top of the dishwasher and from there it gets wiped down quickly if it's to be used soon and placed on the 3rd clean surface while i finish up.

Food that needs to go in the fridge or freezer, that won't be used within a few days,  gets placed inside a clean plastic bag (collected soo many while we couldn't take our own!) I wash my hands first and then use a separate bag as a sort of glove to transfer the items, then stick the bag into the fridge or freezer.

I make sure to wash my hands really well before i start cooking anything as a final step. I try to remember that it would need to be a perfect storm of events for this to transmit the virus to me -- an infected person would need to either cough/sneeze or breathe directly on the product or touch the product after touching their own face. Then i would need to touch the exact same spot that they graciously deposited the virus on the product and finally i would need to then touch my mouth/nose/eyes to transfer it to myself. Easiest way to stop this is the ever constant hand washing! I think i wash my hands at least 10 times after i get home *


----------



## mshanson3121

pigletto said:


> Totally agree on all points. It’s why I started my thread on other leisure travel. I hadn‘t even considered that we may be in the exact same place two years from now . Sigh.



I know. Friends of ours are in AB and are getting married next summer. DH is supposed to be best man. It will require a full cross-country drive, and if things are still like this next summer, I just don't see it happening.



hdrolfe said:


> I believe I read that 32% of people won't get it when it's available? I think that was in Canada. I imagine the US will be worse, so yeah... And that of course is once it's produced in sufficient quantity for more than just essential workers.



I know some are hesitant due to ridiculous conspiracy theories, but I think most have legitimate concerns about safety. To be honest, we probably won't be getting it. We're very much pro-vaccine, but only ones that have been studied sufficiently, which this one won't have, and we're not willing to take the chance considering the other issues we already have. So, we'll do our best to reduce our risk as much as possible. In another couple years, if Covid is still an issue, when we have a bit more data to back it up, then we'll definitely be open to the idea of getting it.

And you're right, even if everyone did get it, it will still take awhile to get it to everyone.


----------



## mshanson3121

Silvermist999 said:


> This is depressing. I think I can believe that masks and distancing would somehow be our new normal.  What I truly despise having to do is having to sanitize the groceries. I used to like grocery shopping, price matching, air miles hunting.  Now I hate coming home with the groceries, it’s a half day ordeal. Hate it.



Wasn't sure if you were aware, but they do not recommend wiping down groceries. There isn't a need for it as transmission via that way is next to impossible. All you need to do is wash your hands when done.


----------



## vegs1

mshanson3121 said:


> Wasn't sure if you were aware, but they do not recommend wiping down groceries. There isn't a need for it as transmission via that way is next to impossible. All you need to do is wash your hands when done.



That’s what we do. Put them in one spot, put them away, dispose of bags, wipe down area they sat and wash our hands.  Everything I have seen says no need to sanitize them.


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## ilovetotravel1977

I wash my hands after I bring in the groceries. Put everything away, and then wash them again. That's it.


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## ilovetotravel1977

As for the vaccine, by the time the regular population of Canada can get it I'm sure the US will have purchased every dosage available in the world and we can wait and watch to see if any weird symptoms occur.

My sister figures Canadians should see the effects as China, Europe and the US will have vaccines first.


----------



## quandrea

damo said:


> I honestly don't think they are going to get the turnout for vaccines even once they are produced.  People are going to be more afraid of the vaccine than of the virus by that point.


My doctor was just telling my husband this yesterday. He doesn’t think there will be many takers.

He did give my dh an mmr booster yesterday to boost his suppressor cells, which help fight the worst complications due to Covid.


----------



## gypsy_at_heart

damo said:


> I honestly don't think they are going to get the turnout for vaccines even once they are produced.  People are going to be more afraid of the vaccine than of the virus by that point.



We’ve already been told it’s going to be required to work in my company (senior’s healthcare), we already had to sign off to agree to get the vaccine when it is available. Not that I’m bothered by taking it. Yes, the vaccine is quickly produced but if you look at the studies there really isn’t anything to worry about. You’ll have far more chance of dying of serious complications caused by COVID-19 than anything coming from a vaccine approved by Health Canada. I find it funny that most of the people I’ve met who are not wanting to take the vaccine due to potential side effects are the same people willing to take their chances with catching COVID-19... that just boggles my mind.

As for the border, I can’t see them opening it until the US can gain some sort of control. Who knows how long that will take.


----------



## CJK

My friend's son works in a outlet mall in a northern state in the USA. His boss told him today that the Canadian border will reopen on Aug. 21st, so get prepared for bus loads of Canadians for some cross border shopping! I told my friend that the border closure keeps extending 1 month at a time, and that it's really doubtful this will be true. All signs point to the border not reopening for several months.


----------



## Dismrk155

CJK said:


> My friend's son works in a outlet mall in a northern state in the USA. His boss told him today that the Canadian border will reopen on Aug. 21st, so get prepared for bus loads of Canadians for some cross border shopping! I told my friend that the border closure keeps extending 1 month at a time, and that it's really doubtful this will be true. All signs point to the border not reopening for several months.


Lol. Wrong. Are custom and border patrol neighbor told us they had a meeting on Monday and no decision to open border in the near future.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

There will be a vaccine by the time the US controls the virus.


----------



## wdwmom3

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> There will be a vaccine by the time the US controls the virus.



Well I just heard that the great pumpkin has announced there could be a vaccine by Election Day.  So there is your answer lol.


----------



## wdwmom3

gypsy_at_heart said:


> We’ve already been told it’s going to be required to work in my company (senior’s healthcare), we already had to sign off to agree to get the vaccine when it is available. Not that I’m bothered by taking it. Yes, the vaccine is quickly produced but if you look at the studies there really isn’t anything to worry about. You’ll have far more chance of dying of serious complications caused by COVID-19 than anything coming from a vaccine approved by Health Canada. I find it funny that most of the people I’ve met who are not wanting to take the vaccine due to potential side effects are the same people willing to take their chances with catching COVID-19... that just boggles my mind.
> 
> As for the border, I can’t see them opening it until the US can gain some sort of control. Who knows how long that will take.



We have the same mindset as you.  I’m confident in the safety by the time it’s get through all the stages.  And I’m more concerned about covid (a known risk) then any rare potential side effect.


----------



## Raimiette

wdwmom3 said:


> Well I just heard that the great pumpkin has announced there could be a vaccine by Election Day.  So there is your answer lol.



Yes, his track record has been so good for accuracy.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

https://news.paxeditions.com/news/other/us-lifts-global-level-4-health-advisory
Just read this article.  I wonder if Canada will lift the level 4 do-not-travel advisory?  Maybe that means passport offices will reopen?  If it does drop the level 4, does that mean we can no longer cancel flights to the US for credits?


----------



## pigletto

There is no way to say for sure , but I’m thinking the tariffs that were just imposed on Canadian aluminum and steel could be retaliatory for not opening our border. We are under mounting pressure to do so. I know there is a history with the current US administration and these tarrifs but I think it’s interesting that they are being imposed again now, right after our PM made a speech saying we would not be pressured into opening our borders. 
I have a feeling we will be leaned on more the longer we keep it closed.


----------



## tinkerone

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> https://news.paxeditions.com/news/other/us-lifts-global-level-4-health-advisory
> Just read this article.  I wonder if Canada will lift the level 4 do-not-travel advisory?  Maybe that means passport offices will reopen?  If it does drop the level 4, does that mean we can no longer cancel flights to the US for credits?


I don’t think one relates to the other.  The US is in a mess and I don’t see a lot of countries saying since they say their citizens can come here, let’s just let them in.  There is no way their going anywhere until they get covid under control.  When even Mexico is shutting them out, there’s an issue.


----------



## hdrolfe

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> https://news.paxeditions.com/news/other/us-lifts-global-level-4-health-advisory
> Just read this article.  I wonder if Canada will lift the level 4 do-not-travel advisory?  Maybe that means passport offices will reopen?  If it does drop the level 4, does that mean we can no longer cancel flights to the US for credits?



You can mail in your passport application, offices are open by appointment only and if you are travelling within 30 days (which no one is unless it's essential services). I believe there is quite a backlog of applications though, so am waiting before sending in kiddo's. Plus I need his picture done and am not even sure where to get that done, especially wish masks being mandated in Ottawa. 

Not sure about the rest of your questions. I hope they keep it closed longer... I haven't officially cancelled my December cruises yet because I am hoping the cruise line will and then I'll get OBC  I have no intention of paying in full though (and lose my deposit whether I call and cancel or wait and just don't pay so it's no loss to wait at this point). Even my father thinks we should keep it closed, and we agree on very little politically at this point.


----------



## bcwife76

hdrolfe said:


> You can mail in your passport application, offices are open by appointment only and if you are travelling within 30 days (which no one is unless it's essential services). I believe there is quite a backlog of applications though, so am waiting before sending in kiddo's. Plus I need his picture done and am not even sure where to get that done, especially wish masks being mandated in Ottawa.
> 
> Not sure about the rest of your questions. I hope they keep it closed longer... I haven't officially cancelled my December cruises yet because I am hoping the cruise line will and then I'll get OBC  I have no intention of paying in full though (and lose my deposit whether I call and cancel or wait and just don't pay so it's no loss to wait at this point). Even my father thinks we should keep it closed, and we agree on very little politically at this point.


You will only receive the 125% FCC if you are paid in full.


----------



## hdrolfe

bcwife76 said:


> You will only receive the 125% FCC if you are paid in full.



I'm not booked on Disney so not sure if that's the rules you are referring to but Carnival is giving either a refund or a FCC of what you have paid plus OBC.


----------



## bcwife76

hdrolfe said:


> I'm not booked on Disney so not sure if that's the rules you are referring to but Carnival is giving either a refund or a FCC of what you have paid plus OBC.


Oh sorry lol Sounds like Carnivals' policy is quite generous!!


----------



## Donald - my hero

*A little humour from a Canadian Internet star - he refers to himself as The internet's Favourite Dad * (*unproven) You might recognize him from his Canada Day KFC Ad*


----------



## Reepicheep

Yesterday (August 11) there were *4 coronavirus deaths in Canada *and* 1,504 coronavirus deaths in the US*.  Taking into account that the US has a population *8.8x* Canada's population, this means that *the US has a per capita death rate of 43x the Canadian death rate.*

The border won't be reopening any time soon.


----------



## wdwmom3

Reepicheep said:


> Yesterday (August 11) there were *4 coronavirus deaths in Canada *and* 1,504 coronavirus deaths in the US*.  Taking into account that the US has a population *8.8x* Canada's population, this means that *the US has a per capita death rate of 43x the Canadian death rate.*
> 
> The border won't be reopening any time soon.



Also I just read that in Ontario we are getting cases related to people traveling in the US.  Hopefully these people followed the quarantine 100%.  But honestly I don’t have that much faith everyone did.


----------



## auntie60

I live in a border town and spent most of my life in and out of canada. And i can honestly say we miss you guys over here in the USA. Stay safe and healthy.


----------



## Kaadk

wdwmom3 said:


> Also I just read that in Ontario we are getting cases related to people traveling in the US.  Hopefully these people followed the quarantine 100%.  But honestly I don’t have that much faith everyone did.


Apparently the authorities are following up pretty diligently on this, at least here. This is one of those "I know a guy who knows a guy" stories, but according to the info I was given, a person who had to travel to the US for a specialized medical proceedure was contacted at least once a day by various authorities, whether that be calls from CBSA or visits by local Police, to make sure they were home for the full time of their quarantine.


----------



## Reepicheep

Kaadk said:


> Apparently the authorities are following up pretty diligently on this...



I can't remember where I came across the following article, perhaps someone posted it earlier in this thread, in which case this is "old news".  But it is a very interesting read.

*************************************

*I'm in Canada, where the COVID police are watching, by Doyle McManus*

*For two weeks, we waited for the pandemic police to come.

In mid-July, my wife and I headed on vacation to a rustic cabin her father built 65 years ago on a small lake north of Toronto. Most Americans can’t visit Canada these days. Because of the coronavirus threat, both countries have closed their borders to nonessential traffic. But my spouse is a dual U.S.-Canadian citizen, so we were allowed in — as long as we agreed to quarantine ourselves for 14 days.

Not a symbolic, wear-a-mask-and-keep-your-distance-but-go-about-your-business quarantine; a real one — no venturing beyond the cabin and the dock. No shopping trips, no long walks, no visitors. And no swimming in the lake — a question I rashly asked one of the public health officers who telephoned almost every day to check on us...* 

I'm in Canada, where the COVID police are watching


----------



## wdwmom3

Reepicheep said:


> Yesterday (August 11) there were *4 coronavirus deaths in Canada *and* 1,504 coronavirus deaths in the US*.  Taking into account that the US has a population *8.8x* Canada's population, this means that *the US has a per capita death rate of 43x the Canadian death rate.*
> 
> The border won't be reopening any time soon.



I also read we only had 289 new cases.  Not sure what the US had, but I’m pretty sure it’s way more then 28,000 which would be 100x what we had


----------



## csm101

I already posted but i'll say it again...I don't see the borders opening until the New Year. It will keep getting pushed back in 30 day intervals. Also with the new Tariffs applied to Canada it will become a bargaining chip and a reason the keep the boarders closed. Wear a mask, social distance and the boarders may open sooner. Stay well all


----------



## Pumpkin1172

Honestly, I hope they keep them closed.  It is just a mess with soooooo many things down there.  If they open up the boarder, it will be interesting to see how much cases may spike.  Then that would also give them the ammunition to shut it down, indefinitely until the US can get their po-op in a group and get the outbreak of the virus under control.  

There are just sooooo many unknowns yet about the virus.  They first said, that heat and light would help keep it from spreading...well THAT is definitely not happening - given the number of cases in Florida and Georgia.  Is this virus going to be more like a flu, meaning that we could get sick with it more than once?  Is the vaccine going to protect us like a vaccine for polio, measles, and all the other vaccines we get, or are we going to need to get a shot each year to keep up our immunity?  There are already reports of people having contracted the virus twice.  Which makes me think that a " vaccine " is not going to be as effective as health officials and public are hoping it will be.  There are just sooo many unknowns about this.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

And doesn't the Flu vaccine help you with not getting AS sick, not necessarily NOT sick? 

I have never had a flu shot in my life and I never have the flu.  I'm 95% sure I had COVID back in early April. I don't want to ever have that again and I'm sure my case was mild.


----------



## mshanson3121

pigletto said:


> There is no way to say for sure , but I’m thinking the tariffs that were just imposed on Canadian aluminum and steel could be retaliatory for not opening our border. We are under mounting pressure to do so. I know there is a history with the current US administration and these tarrifs but I think it’s interesting that they are being imposed again now, right after our PM made a speech saying we would not be pressured into opening our borders.
> I have a feeling we will be leaned on more the longer we keep it closed.



Without getting too political, it wasn't Covid related, it was a re-election move.


----------



## mshanson3121

auntie60 said:


> I live in a border town and spent most of my life in and out of canada. And i can honestly say we miss you guys over here in the USA. Stay safe and healthy.



I really do feel bad for the border towns. So many of them are struggling so badly due to the loss of Canadian shoppers. Though admittedly, not bad enough to open the borders.


----------



## mshanson3121

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> And doesn't the Flu vaccine help you with not getting AS sick, not necessarily NOT sick?
> 
> I have never had a flu shot in my life and I never have the flu.



The flu vaccine in some years is next to useless. It's effectiveness has been as low as 20%, and rarely is ever higher than 50-60%. And "effective" means helping to prevent _or _reduce symptom severity. So, as you said, it doesn't necessarily mean you won't get it. Also, a tidbit they rarely share publicly, is that studies show that getting the flu vaccine every year, can actually reduce it's effectiveness, especially against A-strain. From the CDC website:

*Is it true that getting vaccinated repeatedly can reduce vaccine effectiveness?*

_A recent report examining studies from 2010-11 to 2014-15 concluded that the effectiveness of a flu vaccine may be influenced by vaccination the prior season or during many prior seasons (1). In some seasons, protection against influenza A(H3N2) virus illness may have been lower for people vaccinated in the current season and the prior season compared to those who had only been vaccinated in the current season. This fits with findings on immune response to vaccination that suggest repeated influenza vaccination can weaken immune response to vaccination and especially to the H3N2 vaccine component._


----------



## Reepicheep

mshanson3121 said:


> I really do feel bad for the border towns. So many of them are struggling so badly due to the loss of Canadian shoppers. Though admittedly, not bad enough to open the borders.



I have fond memories, from my misspent youth back in the late 1970s, of going with my friends on a one hour drive from Lethbridge, Alberta to the border community of Sweet Grass, Montana for "Canada Days", when every bar in Sweet Grass sold beer to Canadians for $1 Canadian a can.


----------



## FigmentSpark

Reepicheep said:


> I have fond memories, from my misspent youth back in the late 1970s, of going with my friends on a one hour drive from Lethbridge, Alberta to the border community of Sweet Grass, Montana for "Canada Days", when every bar in Sweet Grass sold beer to Canadians for $1 Canadian a can.


Lol - was that when the CAD was actually worth more than the USD?  There was a short time in there when Americans, particularly border towns, were more than happy to take your CAD$1 at face value.


----------



## momof2gr8kids

mshanson3121 said:


> I really do feel bad for the border towns. So many of them are struggling so badly due to the loss of Canadian shoppers. Though admittedly, not bad enough to open the borders.


On the flip side, I've heard some of the stores on the Canadian side are happy the residents are forced to shop here, and not cross so easily to buy in the USA.  Their sales are up.
But many tourist resort areas in these small communities rely on Americans, so while some businesses are experiencing gains, others are experiencing devastating losses.


----------



## mshanson3121

momof2gr8kids said:


> On the flip side, I've heard some of the stores on the Canadian side are happy the residents are forced to shop here, and not cross so easily to buy in the USA.  Their sales are up.
> But many tourist resort areas in these small communities rely on Americans, so while some businesses are experiencing gains, others are experiencing devastating losses.



I think the loss due to Americans is pretty limited to a few specific areas/places. On average, Canada gets about 13 million American tourists a year but they get 20 million of us. Also, on average, Canadians take 200+ million trips within their own country each year. So, there shouldn't be too much of a loss _because of the lack of Americans_, since Canadians are travelling at home instead. I know in Atlantic Canada, all those small resort areas, that are right on the border, business is booming despite the lack of Americans since the bubble opened up.  Now, I've heard some of the fishing/hunting operations are hurting in Ontario because they rely primarily on Americans, but that's pretty much the extent of what I've heard - _as far as due to lack of Americans_. The industry is hurting overall however because even Canadians can't travel across their own country for the most part. So each province, except for the Atlantic bubble, is requiring primarily on it's own province to support itself. And of course, outside of Atlantic Canada, where numbers have been very low, I think a lot of people still don't feel that safe yet, as far as travel goes.


----------



## momof2gr8kids

mshanson3121 said:


> I think the loss due to Americans is pretty limited to a few specific areas/places. On average, Canada gets about 13 million American tourists a year but they get 20 million of us. Also, on average, Canadians take 200+ million trips within their own country each year. So, there shouldn't be too much of a loss _because of the lack of Americans_, since Canadians are travelling at home instead. I know in Atlantic Canada, all those small resort areas, that are right on the border, business is booming despite the lack of Americans since the bubble opened up.  Now, I've heard some of the fishing/hunting operations are hurting in Ontario because they rely primarily on Americans, but that's pretty much the extent of what I've heard - _as far as due to lack of Americans_. The industry is hurting overall however because even Canadians can't travel across their own country for the most part. So each province, except for the Atlantic bubble, is requiring primarily on it's own province to support itself. And of course, outside of Atlantic Canada, where numbers have been very low, I think a lot of people still don't feel that safe yet, as far as travel goes.


Yes, we;re in prime fishing/hunting lodge territory.  The drive to resorts aren't doing as bad, they've been able to rent out cabins to locals easier.  It's the fly and boat in ones that are hurting.  Costs a lot more to run, and locals aren't going to pay the big bucks to fly somewhere to catch the big one when they either have their own boat or camp, or their friend or relative does.

We'll pay the big bucks for our kids eat a chicken finger at a disney buffet, because that's our big family trip, but most likely the locals in Florida don't do that every disney visit.  Just like we're not going to pay the big bucks here  to catch a fish, which we can do anytime.

The border closure doesn't affect us too much personally, but I know there are many people it's hurting financially and emotionally for a variety of reasons.


----------



## mshanson3121

momof2gr8kids said:


> Yes, we;re in prime fishing/hunting lodge territory.  The drive to resorts aren't doing as bad, they've been able to rent out cabins to locals easier.  It's the fly and boat in ones that are hurting.  Costs a lot more to run, and locals aren't going to pay the big bucks to fly somewhere to catch the big one when they either have their own boat or camp, or their friend or relative does.
> 
> We'll pay the big bucks for our kids eat a chicken finger at a disney buffet, because that's our big family trip, but most likely the locals in Florida don't do that every disney visit.  Just like we're not going to pay the big bucks here  to catch a fish, which we can do anytime.
> 
> The border closure doesn't affect us too much personally, but I know there are many people it's hurting financially and emotionally for a variety of reasons.



I feel so bad for families that have been separated. A friend of mine is a twin. Her sister lives in ME - she hasn't been able to see her since March.  So many other stories like that.


----------



## pigletto

mshanson3121 said:


> I think the loss due to Americans is pretty limited to a few specific areas/places. On average, Canada gets about 13 million American tourists a year but they get 20 million of us. Also, on average, Canadians take 200+ million trips within their own country each year. So, there shouldn't be too much of a loss _because of the lack of Americans_, since Canadians are travelling at home instead. I know in Atlantic Canada, all those small resort areas, that are right on the border, business is booming despite the lack of Americans since the bubble opened up.  Now, I've heard some of the fishing/hunting operations are hurting in Ontario because they rely primarily on Americans, but that's pretty much the extent of what I've heard - _as far as due to lack of Americans_. The industry is hurting overall however because even Canadians can't travel across their own country for the most part. So each province, except for the Atlantic bubble, is requiring primarily on it's own province to support itself. And of course, outside of Atlantic Canada, where numbers have been very low, I think a lot of people still don't feel that safe yet, as far as travel goes.


I live in one of those specific areas and it’s devastating to our local economy. It’s not just the Americans, but they are a huge source of tourism revenue. Add in just about every other country that is too nervous to travel right now, and the losses are significant. It’s not unusual to have houselholds in this community where both parents worked in hotels or casinos. At least one of them  would have typically been laid off every winter as it was. Now that CERB has run out I don’t know what they will do. We had a very high unemployment rate in Niagara as it was ( highest in the province a few years back ) . It’s too soon to see the real numbers but I imagine in a few months  the impact will become evident around here .


----------



## mshanson3121

pigletto said:


> Now that CERB has run out I don’t know what they will do.



It will be interesting to see what they're going to do this winter re: EI. Will they allow it with less hours? Will the banks allow to defer mortgage payments again?


----------



## hdrolfe

pigletto said:


> INow that CERB has run out I don’t know what they will do. We had a very high unemployment rate in Niagara as it was ( highest in the province a few years back ) . It’s too soon to see the real numbers but I imagine in a few months  the impact will become evident around here .



CERB was extended into October though, wasn't it? So perhaps it will be extended again.


----------



## tinkerone

pigletto said:


> Now that CERB has run out I don’t know what they will do.


I thought CERB had been extended to October with talks of it possibly going into 2021?  I could be wrong though.


----------



## pigletto

tinkerone said:


> I thought CERB had been extended to October with talks of it possibly going into 2021?  I could be wrong though.


CERB is ending and transitioning to EI for those who qualify . The reality of CERB is that it was a good and very necessary fix for the families I was referencing but it wouldn‘t cover all the income that these people lost.
I do know the EI is based on hours worked so I can’t imagine most of those in the tourism sector will have worked enough hours to qualify this year. Hopefully there is some allowance for this years special circumstance. 
The businesses and workers in this region have been hit hard and I’m thinking recovery will be slow.


----------



## wdwmom3

pigletto said:


> CERB is ending and transitioning to EI for those who qualify . The reality of CERB is that it was a good and very necessary fix for the families I was referencing but it wouldn‘t cover all the income that these people lost.
> I do know the EI is based on hours worked so I can’t imagine most of those in the tourism sector will have worked enough hours to qualify this year. Hopefully there is some allowance for this years special circumstance.
> The businesses and workers in this region have been hit hard and I’m thinking recovery will be slow.



I could be wrong but I think for transitioning to ei it will be based on hours before the pandemic.  So if in March you would have qualified when your job ended, then you would qualify now.


----------



## hdrolfe

wdwmom3 said:


> I could be wrong but I think for transitioning to ei it will be based on hours before the pandemic.  So if in March you would have qualified when your job ended, then you would qualify now.



This was my understanding, CERB was basically a stop gap and at the end you go back to whatever EI you would have qualified for.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Let's not forget that we have had to pay much less for utilities since it's summer (no heat bills, less lights on).  For those going on EI or those who don't qualify, the coming cooler months will have a drastic impact on day-to-day bills.


----------



## tinkerone

So a quick look, CERB is not ending till October.  Last payment will be Sept 26th which is a payment up until October 3rd.  It has been a double edged sword for many.  My granddaughter who just finished school was working a part time job that did not pay her near that so for her it was a bonus.  She is now back to work.  For my son, he was laid in a downsize due to covid but CERB was less than he would have received on UI.  He to is now back to work.  
One gained, one lost_ BUT_ I believe they were both taken care of to the best of the governments ability.   Transitioning, when the time comes, looks like it will be pretty painless.  At least we can hope so.  

https://globalnews.ca/news/7239834/cerb-recipient-move-ei/


----------



## wdwmom3

Border closure extended until September


----------



## pigletto

tinkerone said:


> So a quick look, CERB is not ending till October.  Last payment will be Sept 26th which is a payment up until October 3rd.  It has been a double edged sword for many.  My granddaughter who just finished school was working a part time job that did not pay her near that so for her it was a bonus.  She is now back to work.  For my son, he was laid in a downsize due to covid but CERB was less than he would have received on UI.  He to is now back to work.
> One gained, one lost_ BUT_ I believe they were both taken care of to the best of the governments ability.   Transitioning, when the time comes, looks like it will be pretty painless.  At least we can hope so.
> 
> https://globalnews.ca/news/7239834/cerb-recipient-move-ei/


If you collected CERB from the first month it was offered you received your last payment this month. You were eligible for 6 payments.  So September is for those who didn’t claim in March.

Again, I’m not complaining about the programs that were put in place. I think they were both necessary and beneficial to our communities. I was just pointing out that for a large number of employees and businesses  in my region,  they will still struggle with the border shut down and it will have a harsh impact in Niagara where we rely so heavily on tourism.

The border needs to stay closed for our health and safety. It’s just going to have harsh economic consequences for Canadians , especially in this community. We’ve built our economy on tourism here Restaurants , tourist attractions, hotels, casinos, weddings, wineries, B&B’s, bike tours, bus tours .... there is a major impact here. EI and CERB can not and will not come close to mitigating that impact. I blame nobody. It’s just an economic reality that can’t be ignored.

Unsurprisingly it was just announced we are keeping the borders closed another thirty days. I don’t see them opening this year .


----------



## samsteele

EI is also not available for self-employed small business people.

The break on time of use electricity during the pandemic was only provided to private residences and not given to small businesses eg restaurants, motels, gas stations, etc.


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## CJK

While keeping the border closed is likely the right thing to do, I still feel like I'm in mourning. That probably sounds overly dramatic!  Like, I'm in mourning for what 'once was'. Does that make sense? Remember when we didn't give a second thought to going to the grocery store, going out to dinner, visiting family/friends or crossing the border to our southern neighbours? We've cancelled 2 Disney trips and 1 non-Disney trip. My job is travel related, so I'm basically at a standstill. Come September, we usually start looking at sunny destinations to give us a break from winter, yet here we are. Everyday I try to be grateful for our health, dh's stable job, and our family and friends. Still, I can't help but feel that sense of mourning. Today's border announcement is far from unexpected, but it just adds another drop of sadness to the whole dang situation.


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## Kaadk

I'm kind of worried about the end of CERB.  I fear what we're going to see is people going back because there's no option, whether they should be working or not.  And that's going to lead to more cases like this:

https://windsor.ctvnews.ca/employee...hile-infectious-with-covid-19-wechu-1.5046892

Mind you, in that case it's stated the employee didn't know they were infected, but still, how long until people who are infected show up to work anyways, because their CERB has run out and they have no other recourse?  I know what I'd rather see done with CERB, but I won't get into them here to try keep the politics side of this conversation out of it.  Needless to say though, I do worry about the result of ending it.

And for the record, we haven't used CERB at all.  I'm fortunate enough to work remote the majority of the time anyways, working out of the house unless I needed to be onsite with a client, so I've been working right through, and my wife's work was deemed essential so she wasn't on it either.  So, my thoughts aren't about any kind of personal gain, I'm solely worried about public safety.


----------



## tlcdoula

CJK said:


> While keeping the border closed is likely the right thing to do, I still feel like I'm in mourning. That probably sounds overly dramatic!  Like, I'm in mourning for what 'once was'. Does that make sense? Remember when we didn't give a second thought to going to the grocery store, going out to dinner, visiting family/friends or crossing the border to our southern neighbours? We've cancelled 2 Disney trips and 1 non-Disney trip. My job is travel related, so I'm basically at a standstill. Come September, we usually start looking at sunny destinations to give us a break from winter, yet here we are. Everyday I try to be grateful for our health, dh's stable job, and our family and friends. Still, I can't help but feel that sense of mourning. Today's border announcement is far from unexpected, but it just adds another drop of sadness to the whole dang situation.


This is exactly how I feel, so you are not alone.  I work a second job to pay for our trips and those long days are really hard now that I have no count down to look forward too   .   We usually travel to Disney at least once a year and to Mexico once or twice depending on the year.  Our family and friends are all healthy and that is what is important but it is still hard.

We have not been doing much a few day trips etc but I sure do miss being able to just jump in the car and go.


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## pigletto

CJK said:


> While keeping the border closed is likely the right thing to do, I still feel like I'm in mourning. That probably sounds overly dramatic!  Like, I'm in mourning for what 'once was'. Does that make sense? Remember when we didn't give a second thought to going to the grocery store, going out to dinner, visiting family/friends or crossing the border to our southern neighbours? We've cancelled 2 Disney trips and 1 non-Disney trip. My job is travel related, so I'm basically at a standstill. Come September, we usually start looking at sunny destinations to give us a break from winter, yet here we are. Everyday I try to be grateful for our health, dh's stable job, and our family and friends. Still, I can't help but feel that sense of mourning. Today's border announcement is far from unexpected, but it just adds another drop of sadness to the whole dang situation.


I totally understand what you are saying and I think the majority of people would. I sent my sister in law a picture of my son who was about 12 hugging my nephew who was about 2 that popped up on my timeline. It was from three summers ago . She sent back “God i miss when people could hug each other and you all could spend the weekend with my kids “ . 
And I’m so grateful my newest nephew and my sister are healthy and happy in Florida where they live but I might not meet him until he’s more than a year old. I just can‘t wrap my head around it.
It’s the pits isn’t it ? I get it. There are far far worse things and I am grateful for the health of my family and loved ones. But it’s ok to be sad for all the things we are missing out on too. I get it.


----------



## Aladora

CJK said:


> While keeping the border closed is likely the right thing to do, I still feel like I'm in mourning. That probably sounds overly dramatic!  Like, I'm in mourning for what 'once was'. Does that make sense? Remember when we didn't give a second thought to going to the grocery store, going out to dinner, visiting family/friends or crossing the border to our southern neighbours? We've cancelled 2 Disney trips and 1 non-Disney trip. My job is travel related, so I'm basically at a standstill. Come September, we usually start looking at sunny destinations to give us a break from winter, yet here we are. Everyday I try to be grateful for our health, dh's stable job, and our family and friends. Still, I can't help but feel that sense of mourning. Today's border announcement is far from unexpected, but it just adds another drop of sadness to the whole dang situation.



I 100% get where you are coming from. I have had to cancel our first ever cruise, a trip for DH to go to Geneva to tour CERN, a sisters only trip to Vegas and an August DL trip. 

DH travels a ton for work here within BC, mostly to First Nations land. Many of the locations have asked for people to stay away but he did one trip recently and has another one happening next week. The one a few weeks ago he drove to Vancouver and flew from there but the plane was chartered for him by the band and he was the only passenger. The trip next week he is driving 2 days there and 2 days back to avoid having to fly. 

I was talking to him just a few days ago and I was saying that while I have been able to keep my chin up for the most part, this week was starting to test me a bit. Nothing new happened really but it is all getting to be a bit of a slog to get through. We are now in the 5th month of this and I am just tired.


----------



## samsteele

I suspect most of us have now internalized - but don't want to really admit - that we are not safely leaving the country until at least this time next year and our American cousins will not be visiting us and spending their $ here until the same. Its painful to accept. I hope for better but am bracing myself for the reality.


----------



## Pumpkin1172

Kaadk said:


> Mind you, in that case it's stated the employee didn't know they were infected, but still, how long until people who are infected show up to work anyways, because their CERB has run out and they have no other recourse? I know what I'd rather see done with CERB, but I won't get into them here to try keep the politics side of this conversation out of it. Needless to say though, I do worry about the result of ending it.



This is where businesses NEED to start giving sick days just for cases like this.  A person can be sick...the mandate would be to go get tested...once it is negative, they can come back to work.  We can not keep relying on the government to keep printing more money.  At some point....it WILL have to stop.  Will this hurt small businesses...YUP!!!!  But at what point do we stop depending on the government to keep printing money.  Our deficit is spiraling out of control.  Our grandchildren't grandchildren will be taxed for this for the next 150 years!!!!!!   
I work for a family owned business.  There are many branches across western canada and even into the US.  Can this business give me sick days so that I don't infect our whole office plus customers that come into our building.  Can they...yes....but will they NOPE!!!!  I told my boss...then you need to be prepared for people to come into work and infect the whole office.  What will they do when that happens at one of the branches we have.  Smaller businesses will have an even harder time to absorb that cost...and I feel for them.  But do you want to be " that busniness " that has had that happen? My guess is probably not.  It will do even more harm to their business. 



tlcdoula said:


> This is exactly how I feel, so you are not alone. I work a second job to pay for our trips and those long days are really hard now that I have no count down to look forward too  . We usually travel to Disney at least once a year and to Mexico once or twice depending on the year. Our family and friends are all healthy and that is what is important but it is still hard.


This is me too!!!!  I had been working a second job until the covid hit ( and the business folded - Pier 1 ) I recently got another second job at Homesense...just to keep adding to our travel fund.  But it is hard to slog to work on a late Friday afternoon, to work another 3.5 hours after working 8 already....knowing that the trips we had planned won't be happening.  It is hard to swallow.



CJK said:


> While keeping the border closed is likely the right thing to do, I still feel like I'm in mourning. That probably sounds overly dramatic!  Like, I'm in mourning for what 'once was'. Does that make sense? Remember when we didn't give a second thought to going to the grocery store, going out to dinner, visiting family/friends or crossing the border to our southern neighbours? We've cancelled 2 Disney trips and 1 non-Disney trip. My job is travel related, so I'm basically at a standstill. Come September, we usually start looking at sunny destinations to give us a break from winter, yet here we are. Everyday I try to be grateful for our health, dh's stable job, and our family and friends. Still, I can't help but feel that sense of mourning. Today's border announcement is far from unexpected, but it just adds another drop of sadness to the whole dang situation.



I can totally relate.  we had a few trips that we had talked about, planned out, were watching seat sales, collecting various points.  All that is done right now.  I dread our long cold winters ( especially in northern Alberta  )  and we had just about pulled the trigger to do a last minute getaway just days before all the covid lockdowns happened.  Now, i am not hopeful that we will be able to see warm tropical sand and water ( even next March/April or May ) to help me get through the winter.  Now we worry when we go south to visit our dd and the grandbaby for a weekend, that we need to be extra vigilant about how we feel when we get home, from an area with higher active cases.


----------



## bcwife76

It's going to make planning vacation time off difficult for sure. My husbands' company, their vacation calendar goes from mid march to mid march and your time off for that calendar MUST be booked by mid February for approval. And it's not-changeable. So here we were this past February, booked a week in March for Aulani (which we made by the skin of our teeth before the shut down happened and quarantined upon arriving home, eventhough it wasn't made mandatory until the end of March). A week in early July for Lake Tahoe (ended up going up to Penticton for a couple of nights), a week off in late August for WDW/Dream cruise (now we're going to the Kootenays) and a week off in mid October for DL/Disney Wonder cruise (think we will do a two night staycation in downtown Vancouver). And that is IT for time off til the new calendar and how does he plan in Feb 2021 for another year of vacations that may not happen?

Yes I know, first world problems but it's still annoying and quite frankly, it stinks. He works LONG, hard hours from mid November til January with no time off except weekends (even then they look for staff to volunteer for Saturdays). No one can take vacation in that time and we are just thankful that Christmas this year falls around a weekend so he'll get 4 days off then.


----------



## 22Tink

CJK said:


> While keeping the border closed is likely the right thing to do, I still feel like I'm in mourning. That probably sounds overly dramatic!  Like, I'm in mourning for what 'once was'. Does that make sense? Remember when we didn't give a second thought to going to the grocery store, going out to dinner, visiting family/friends or crossing the border to our southern neighbours? We've cancelled 2 Disney trips and 1 non-Disney trip. My job is travel related, so I'm basically at a standstill. Come September, we usually start looking at sunny destinations to give us a break from winter, yet here we are. Everyday I try to be grateful for our health, dh's stable job, and our family and friends. Still, I can't help but feel that sense of mourning. Today's border announcement is far from unexpected, but it just adds another drop of sadness to the whole dang situation.


Not overly dramatic at all! I feel exactly like this.  Mourning is a great way to describe it. I miss all of the things we used to do without having to worry about getting sick or making someone else sick. While I also agree that the border needs to remain closed, I’m sad for the trips it means we won’t be taking.


----------



## Jrb1979

22Tink said:


> Not overly dramatic at all! I feel exactly like this.  Mourning is a great way to describe it. I miss all of the things we used to do without having to worry about getting sick or making someone else sick. While I also agree that the border needs to remain closed, I’m sad for the trips it means we won’t be taking.
> A


Yes it's sad that many of us are missing out on some vacations but there is many places in this country worth going on vacation to. If it wasn't for Covid I never would have visited Collingwood. Its a beautiful city to visit.


----------



## 22Tink

Jrb1979 said:


> Yes it's sad that many of us are missing out on some vacations but there is many places in this country worth going on vacation to. If it wasn't for Covid I never would have visited Collingwood. Its a beautiful city to visit.


True enough!  I unfortunately can’t leave my province without a 14 day quarantine upon returning because of protocols at my place of work so we’re just staying put for now. We’re short staffed thanks to COVID too so I can’t really take any extended trips even within B.C. We did buy kayaks this summer so we’ve been enjoying those close to home. Our cancelled trip to California still hurts though.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

https://news.paxeditions.com/news/t...will-be-pushed-back-covid-19-insurance-coming 

An excerpt from the above webpage:

Of course, finding *travel insurance* that includes COVID-19 coverage also plays into today’s challenges.

Some Canadian insurers have already broken rank by *adding out-of-country COVID-19 coverage* to their menus, and this is something Sunwing will be doing also, in due time, Dawson confirmed. 

In fact, just this past weekend, *Manulife*, Sunwing’s insurance partner, presented a product to the tour operator that includes an option for COVID-19 coverage, he said.  

While the details and release date is under wraps, the program likely* will not include coverage for travel to the United States* where COVID-19 cases are nearing 5.5 million, said Dawson, noting that Sunwing doesn’t intend to offer Florida this Christmas anyway.

Still, Sunwing’s soon-to-be-released insurance product, said Dawson, will be *“something good.”*


----------



## hdrolfe

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> https://news.paxeditions.com/news/t...will-be-pushed-back-covid-19-insurance-coming
> 
> An excerpt from the above webpage:
> 
> Of course, finding *travel insurance* that includes COVID-19 coverage also plays into today’s challenges.
> 
> Some Canadian insurers have already broken rank by *adding out-of-country COVID-19 coverage* to their menus, and this is something Sunwing will be doing also, in due time, Dawson confirmed.
> 
> In fact, just this past weekend, *Manulife*, Sunwing’s insurance partner, presented a product to the tour operator that includes an option for COVID-19 coverage, he said.
> 
> While the details and release date is under wraps, the program likely* will not include coverage for travel to the United States* where COVID-19 cases are nearing 5.5 million, said Dawson, noting that Sunwing doesn’t intend to offer Florida this Christmas anyway.
> 
> Still, Sunwing’s soon-to-be-released insurance product, said Dawson, will be *“something good.”*



Does this mean a winter getaway some place warm might be possible? Interesting.


----------



## bababear_50

Wow
While *Florida* tops the list for number of popular snowbird destinations, *California*, *Texas*, *Arizona* and Nevada also offer warmth and sun for winter-weary retirees. Other popular warm weather states include Georgia, Alabama and South Carolina.
The *Canadian Snowbird* Association estimates that at least 350,000 *Canadians* spend three to six months in Florida, while another 100,000 spend between one to three months in the state.
I know I have an Evil stepmother that goes to Texas each year ,,,(I believe they call themselves Winter Texans).
Hmmmmm. this is going to be one rough Fall/Winter.
I guess she could fly down , but I am not sure she can even get Insurance,,especially with her age and pre existing medical conditions.
All of the above states are strife with high numbers of Covid too.


Mel


----------



## Jrb1979

hdrolfe said:


> Does this mean a winter getaway some place warm might be possible? Interesting.


Barring that the mandatory quarantine is lifted. I have no interest in an all inclusive. Being able to get insurance so I can sit on a beach all day would be use to me. I don't go on vacation somewhere to relax. I can do that at home. All my vacations involve being on the go the whole time I'm away.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

@hdrolfe Wouldn't it be wonderful?  I know you and I are able to work from home, and many cannot. 

@Jrb1979 What is wrong with laying poolside/beachside, playing in a waterpark, paddleboarding, snorkeling while at an all inclusive where you don't have to cook, clean, etc.  The beauty about an all inclusive is that you can be as busy as you want to be, or just chill.

Anyways, I still prefer cruising, but if we cannot do our own excursions then that kinda sucks.


----------



## hdrolfe

Jrb1979 said:


> Barring that the mandatory quarantine is lifted. I have no interest in an all inclusive. Being able to get insurance so I can sit on a beach all day would be use to me. I don't go on vacation somewhere to relax. I can do that at home. All my vacations involve being on the go the whole time I'm away.



My son prefers to be busy when we travel which is why we normally do Disney or cruise. There are some AI's that have water parks with water slides and such that I think he would enjoy, and if I am able to sit and read on a beach, I would be happy! But I also don't have a big home and the chance to not have to cook/clean/make beds would be a nice break, especially when you add in the nice weather compared to winter in Ottawa!



ilovetotravel1977 said:


> @hdrolfe Wouldn't it be wonderful?  I know you and I are able to work from home, and many cannot.
> 
> @Jrb1979 What is wrong with laying poolside/beachside, playing in a waterpark, paddleboarding, snorkeling while at an all inclusive where you don't have to cook, clean, etc.  The beauty about an all inclusive is that you can be as busy as you want to be, or just chill.
> 
> Anyways, I still prefer cruising, but if we cannot do our own excursions then that kinda sucks.



I agree, I can work from home for two weeks when we return if it's necessary, I do understand many people can't, but the article did also speak to perhaps removing that for certain areas. And yes, the chance to sorkel, paddleboard, water slides, no cooking or cleaning? In the warm weather when it's cold here... Yup, sign me up! I'd rather cruise but since I don't see that happening since they all leave via the US, and there is no way I'm going to feel safe there for awhile. 

So yes, thanks for posting that, gives me some hope!


----------



## Jrb1979

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> @hdrolfe Wouldn't it be wonderful?  I know you and I are able to work from home, and many cannot.
> 
> @Jrb1979 What is wrong with laying poolside/beachside, playing in a waterpark, paddleboarding, snorkeling while at an all inclusive where you don't have to cook, clean, etc.  The beauty about an all inclusive is that you can be as busy as you want to be, or just chill.
> 
> Anyways, I still prefer cruising, but if we cannot do our own excursions then that kinda sucks.


Nothing wrong with doing that if that's what you like. I just prefer to not be stuck at resort for a week. Just before this all started my family went to Myrtle Beach for a week. Being able to explore the city and nearby areas was wonderful. We went to the beach in the morning but the rest of the day we went to different places in the area and tried many different restaurants that we don't have here. I would be bored out of my mind at all inclusive. Hate snorkeling, paddleboarding or sitting at a beach. 

Love exploring new cities I have never been too.


----------



## Aladora

bababear_50 said:


> Wow
> While *Florida* tops the list for number of popular snowbird destinations, *California*, *Texas*, *Arizona* and Nevada also offer warmth and sun for winter-weary retirees. Other popular warm weather states include Georgia, Alabama and South Carolina.
> The *Canadian Snowbird* Association estimates that at least 350,000 *Canadians* spend three to six months in Florida, while another 100,000 spend between one to three months in the state.
> I know I have an Evil stepmother that goes to Texas each year ,,,(I believe they call themselves Winter Texans).
> Hmmmmm. this is going to be one rough Fall/Winter.
> I guess she could fly down , but I am not sure she can even get Insurance,,especially with her age and pre existing medical conditions.
> All of the above states are strife with high numbers of Covid too.
> 
> 
> Mel



My father and the StepMonster Snowbird in FL every winter but after they came home this year they are talking very seriously about selling.


----------



## samsteele

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> Still, Sunwing’s soon-to-be-released insurance product, said Dawson, will be *“something good.”*


Certainly thank you for the update. Good to know what's brewing. 
I would warn, for those who are looking to take advantage of this coverage and go somewhere with sand, sun and surf to escape the cold this winter - prob Caribbean because its Sunwing - traveling with someone who becomes seriously ill and incapacitated on a trip is a nightware. I've done it. I never want to repeat it. Forget the vacation - you are scrambling to find a hotel near the hospital and spending your days waiting at the hospital and searching for online translations to ask hospital staff and find out what is happening to your loved one. Then you visit them every day in recovery and feel terrible that this happened. Then you watch them suffer trying to get to the airport and then board the flight to get home. And if you have the thrill of flying Air Canada, know they won't give you a wheelchair to assist unless booked 2 weeks in advance. Look forward to physically carrying and supporting your family or friend and then draping her on your luggage cart on top of the luggage to get through the airport. While you watch generally healthy passengers with their toy dogs perched on laps getting wheelchair and airport golf cart assistance. I did this. Never again. Everyone has to balance the cost of their vacation. Sometimes it costs a lot more than we are ever prepared to accept.


----------



## Donald - my hero

Jrb1979 said:


> Nothing wrong with doing that if that's what you like. I just prefer to not be stuck at resort for a week. Just before this all started my family went to Myrtle Beach for a week. Being able to explore the city and nearby areas was wonderful. We went to the beach in the morning but the rest of the day we went to different places in the area and tried many different restaurants that we don't have here. I would be bored out of my mind at all inclusive. Hate snorkeling, paddleboarding or sitting at a beach.
> 
> Love exploring new cities I have never been too.


*I'm thinking if you look at THIS resort you might change your mind about AIs!!! The amount of stuff they include is staggering, I don't think you'd be bored. It includes far too many things to even list. Have no idea about your budget but seriously, give it a glance (we were booked to go but then i got nervous about their ability to safely feed me)

Here's the link to their resort PLUS the list of what's included for fun
https://www.hotelxcaret.com/en/https://www.hotelxcaret.com/en/all-fun-inclusive/ *


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## ilovetotravel1977

My SIL is a part time travel agent and that resort is one that gets booked a lot!


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## kittyab

Well until there is a vaccine or travel insurance will cover Covid, we will wait till go back to Orlando.


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## Jrb1979

Donald - my hero said:


> *I'm thinking if you look at THIS resort you might change your mind about AIs!!! The amount of stuff they include is staggering, I don't think you'd be bored. It includes far too many things to even list. Have no idea about your budget but seriously, give it a glance (we were booked to go but then i got nervous about their ability to safely feed me)
> 
> Here's the link to their resort PLUS the list of what's included for fun
> https://www.hotelxcaret.com/en/
> https://www.hotelxcaret.com/en/all-fun-inclusive/ *


I looked at it and outside of zip-lining and the water slides it does nothing for me. I equate a place like that to staying in the Disney bubble. While it may be fun there is so much more outside that bubble.


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## wdwmom3

Jrb1979 said:


> I looked at it and outside of zip-lining and the water slides it does nothing for me. I equate a place like that to staying in the Disney bubble. While it may be fun there is so much more outside that bubble.



Actually in most places where you can go to an AI there is also plenty to explore and do off the resort. But of course the safety depends on where you are.

We have been to some AI in places like Antigua and Saint Lucia and have had no issue leaving the resort and exploring.


----------



## hdrolfe

wdwmom3 said:


> Actually in most places where you can go to an AI there is also plenty to explore and do off the resort. But of course the safety depends on where you are.
> 
> We have been to some AI in places like Antigua and Saint Lucia and have had no issue leaving the resort and exploring.



We stopped in Antigua on a cruise and before we got there I read there are 365 beaches, one for every day of the year. It was a lovely spot.


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## ilovetotravel1977

@Jrb1979 You might enjoy cruising.  Hits all the buttons.  Onboard entertainment (indoors/outdoors), 3-4 port stops on 7 night cruises, private island days, etc. ANd you can travel to your port of departure a few days prior and explore that city/area. It really has everything!


----------



## wdwmom3

hdrolfe said:


> We stopped in Antigua on a cruise and before we got there I read there are 365 beaches, one for every day of the year. It was a lovely spot.



Yes it’s my absolute favourite! So many beaches.  Not hard to find a quiet one.  And lots of local places to go and eat.  I love walking around English Harbour and looking at all the mega yachts.


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## wdwmom3

So I just read an American who claimed he was travelling from Alaska through to the US was arrested for not following the quarantine act.  I’m glad! They gave him a ticket and the next day he was arrested because he still didn’t follow instructions.


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## ilovetotravel1977

yup, read that on cbc.ca


----------



## dancin Disney style

Jrb1979 said:


> I looked at it and outside of zip-lining and the water slides it does nothing for me. I equate a place like that to staying in the Disney bubble. While it may be fun there is so much more outside that bubble.


I have stayed at Hotel Xcaret.   It's absolutely STUNNING!  The included excursions are just a perk.  The resort itself is very luxurious.  Staff can't do enough for you....if you ask for something it's done immediately.  There are more restaurants than you can eat in with food that is excellent.  Many onsite activities...kayak, paddle board, bikes, workout circuit, gyms etc.  The spa is heaven.  Multiple pools, ocean beach as well as beaches along the internal river....all with waiter service and towel service.  There are staff that just circulate to check on you all over the resort.  Basically...anything you want they will make happen.   We did several of the excursions because they were things we would have done anyway....cenote swims, cave rafting, cultural show, jungle ATV.  We also went ziplining which I would never have done (I'm afraid of heights) but I did it and loved it...we were going to go back and do it a second time but ultimately we felt that we wanted to spend the time enjoying the resort.  We also hired a driver and went to several places outside of the resort.

It's nothing at all like the Disney bubble.  Most of the excursions are pretty far from the resort.  There are only 3 that are, sort of, onsite.   The 'more outside the bubble' is pretty much the same as what the resort includes.  The only thing that immediately comes to mind that would be a little different is Cozumel or Playa Del Carmen.....which we went to and found it to be very touristy.


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## Briar Patch Home

mshanson3121 said:


> I know the closure has been extended to May 20th. When do you think we'll see the border re-opening? Do you think it'll be province by province depending on risk zones? All at once? Do you think individual provinces will require quarentine even after it opens? When do you personally want to see it reopen?



I expect the border to reopen November 4th.  May not be exactly November 4th, but I expect a major announcement on, or shortly after 11/4.


----------



## badiggio

Donald - my hero said:


> *I'm thinking if you look at THIS resort you might change your mind about AIs!!! The amount of stuff they include is staggering, I don't think you'd be bored. It includes far too many things to even list. Have no idea about your budget but seriously, give it a glance (we were booked to go but then i got nervous about their ability to safely feed me)
> 
> Here's the link to their resort PLUS the list of what's included for fun
> https://www.hotelxcaret.com/en/https://www.hotelxcaret.com/en/all-fun-inclusive/ *


That's a gorgeous resort.we've been seeing it on tv on a show called Married at First Sight,the past few weeks and actually might go one day.


----------



## mshanson3121

Briar Patch Home said:


> I expect the border to reopen November 4th.  May not be exactly November 4th, but I expect a major announcement on, or shortly after 11/4.



I think this depends on the outcome


----------



## Sue M

mshanson3121 said:


> I think this depends on the outcome


I think it depends on more than an election. I’m glad to hear numbers are going down a bit or stabilizing but going down from thousands of cases is still a lot. 
I‘m still hanging on to my late Nov/Dec trip but if we still can’t get medical travel or have to do a 14 day quarantine I’ll be canceling. Don’t want to quarantine over Christmas.


----------



## mshanson3121

Sue M said:


> I think it depends on more than an election. I’m glad to hear numbers are going down a bit or stabilizing but going down from thousands of cases is still a lot.
> I‘m still hanging on to my late Nov/Dec trip but if we still can’t get medical travel or have to do a 14 day quarantine I’ll be canceling. Don’t want to quarantine over Christmas.



Definitely. I was just referring specifically to what they were implying


----------



## Briar Patch Home

Sue M said:


> I think it depends on more than an election. I’m glad to hear numbers are going down a bit or stabilizing but going down from thousands of cases is still a lot.
> I‘m still hanging on to my late Nov/Dec trip but if we still can’t get medical travel or have to do a 14 day quarantine I’ll be canceling. Don’t want to quarantine over Christmas.



Actually, now that I think about it, the first of December may be a little more accurate.  They don't want to be too overt and transparent with their announcement.  That might really enrage people.  They'll probably make an announcement a couple of weeks later that the border will be opening Dec. 1, or maybe Jan. 1.


----------



## CJK

I really feel for snowbirds. This may be their first winter in a long time staying home. I know of several couples not going for sure. For us, we always look forward to escaping winter for a few weeks, but that may not be possible this year.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Opening for Christmas travel at the earliest, I think. So December 1st-ish?


----------



## hdrolfe

I expect not until the new year at this point, there are still so many unknowns, and still talk of a fall/winter second/third wave.


----------



## pigletto

CJK said:


> I really feel for snowbirds. This may be their first winter in a long time staying home. I know of several couples not going for sure. For us, we always look forward to escaping winter for a few weeks, but that may not be possible this year.☹


While I feel sorry for snowbirds, they are pretty much the last population that should step foot in the United States . I think even when the border opens that vulnerable populations will need to exercise extreme caution.


----------



## Dismrk155

The only people that know are at the highest level at the State Dept. decision has been made already for the rest of the year and will be told month by month.


----------



## Gigi22

I suggest we all agree to move on, as this thread has unfortunately turned into something perilously close to politics.  And I’m allergic!


----------



## Briar Patch Home

Gigi22 said:


> I suggest we all agree to move on, as this thread has unfortunately turned into something perilously close to politics.  And I’m allergic!



Agree


----------



## isabellea

CJK said:


> I really feel for snowbirds. This may be their first winter in a long time staying home. I know of several couples not going for sure. For us, we always look forward to escaping winter for a few weeks, but that may not be possible this year.☹



My parents just bought their first set of winter tires for their 10yo SUV. They usually leave Nov 1st and come back for Easter, but not this year.


----------



## Sue M

Briar Patch Home said:


> Actually, now that I think about it, the first of December may be a little more accurate.  They don't want to be too overt and transparent with their announcement.  That might really enrage people.  They'll probably make an announcement a couple of weeks later that the border will be opening Dec. 1, or maybe Jan. 1.


I’m supposed to be in Universal Nov 28. Fingers crossed they open Nov 21. It’s always been the 21st each announcement for extending closure. Current one is until Sept 21. I’m not overly optimistic that it will open in 2020


----------



## Reepicheep

Reepicheep said:


> ...below are the *new covid cases which were reported yesterday* (Tuesday July 7th) in different jurisdictions.
> 
> *60,021* - *United States* (*8.8x* the population of Canada) *30x
> 8,631* - *California * (*1.05x* the population of Canada)* 35x*
> *7,347* - *Florida* (*0.6x* the population of Canada) * 50x
> 1,010 - Orange County, California *(*0.085x* the population of Canada) *50x
> 361* -* Orange County, Florida *(*0.037x *the population of Canada) *40x
> 232* - *Canada*
> 
> The number in* RED* gives an indication of how much worse the jurisdiction is doing when compared to Canada, taking into account population size.



Seven or so weeks have gone by since I did the above calculation, so I thought I'd do an update.  I don't trust the current statistics for "new cases", so in the following I'm using a *death count* rather than a* new case count*.

The deaths in each jurisdiction are:
- the 7 day moving average of daily deaths as of yesterday (August 26) in the US, Canada, California, and Florida
- yesterday's reported death count for Orange County, California
- 14 day average death count for Orange County, Florida

*966 -* *United States* (*8.8x* the population of Canada) *16x
124 -* *California * (*1.05x* the population of Canada)* 17x
114 -* *Florida* (*0.6x* the population of Canada) * 27x
7 - Orange County, California *(*0.085x* the population of Canada)* 12**x
26 - Orange County, Florida *(*0.037x *the population of Canada) *100x
7 -* *Canada*

Compared to seven weeks ago, the US is, overall, doing better, although it is hard to reject the conclusion that Orange County Florida is doing much worse as a result of the Florida theme parks reopening.

I don't think Canada will consider opening the border until the statistics for Canada and the US are much closer.


----------



## Frozen2014

This is so depressing.  We should have been on a plane right now, landing in Orlando in 1hr and heading straight to Disney World.  Although improved, I think we're still a long way off from opening the border.


----------



## Aladora

Frozen2014 said:


> This is so depressing.  We should have been on a plane right now, landing in Orlando in 1hr and heading straight to Disney World.  Although improved, I think we're still a long way off from opening the border.



We have historically gone to DL in August so my Facebook memories this month have all been about Disney trips! 9 years ago today we took DS to Disneyland for his very first trip.


----------



## hdrolfe

Aladora said:


> We have historically gone to DL in August so my Facebook memories this month have all been about Disney trips! 9 years ago today we took DS to Disneyland for his very first trip.



Mine is too, last year and three years ago. We weren't supposed to be going this year, but this would make me wish we were planning a trip for next summer. Which I'm not comfortable doing yet.


----------



## momof2gr8kids

Briar Patch Home said:


> Hopefully it will be open soon.  We may not be welcome up there, but all Canadians are welcome down here.


Actually only by plane. And many places a quarrantine required. All canadians are not allowed to cross at land borders. Only essential services. People that have property an hour away in USA are turned away. Spouses are turned away. Although we allow spouses from usa to come to Canada as long as they quarantine.  

I think it's the attitude of many Americans that it's their right to come here and do what they want, which makes many canadians say screw it we'll travel elsewhere when this is all over.


----------



## Gigi22

What really worries me is that I am going to have real difficulty persuading my travel buddies to come with me when, eventually, the border is opened.  Their view will be that flying to Europe for holidays would be more appealing.


----------



## Kaadk

pigletto said:


> While I feel sorry for snowbirds, they are pretty much the last population that should step foot in the United States . I think even when the border opens that vulnerable populations will need to exercise extreme caution.


Yeah, this is really going to affect some of the full time RVing snowbirds, who don’t have a permanent address here.  There are lots of people who relied on being able to go south when their seasonal parks close here.


----------



## 22Tink

Aladora said:


> We have historically gone to DL in August so my Facebook memories this month have all been about Disney trips! 9 years ago today we took DS to Disneyland for his very first trip.


Mine too. August is typically our Disney trip month as well. We were supposed to be there and back already for this year’s trip. We’re hopeful that next August finds us back in DL.


----------



## Aug2020distrip

Frozen2014 said:


> This is so depressing.  We should have been on a plane right now, landing in Orlando in 1hr and heading straight to Disney World.  Although improved, I think we're still a long way off from opening the border.


I made the mistake of looking up wait times for this week since we were supposed to be there, and the most depressing thing is seeing like 10 min waits for FOP and such. I hope low wait times continue when it’s eventually ok to go. I know they won’t stay this low, but I can’t really see those 180 min wait times for a couple years


----------



## Frozen2014

Aug2020distrip said:


> I made the mistake of looking up wait times for this week since we were supposed to be there, and the most depressing thing is seeing like 10 min waits for FOP and such. I hope low wait times continue when it’s eventually ok to go. I know they won’t stay this low, but I can’t really see those 180 min wait times for a couple years


Yeah, pretty low waits.  Today was our Magic Kingdom day. And don't even know when we'll get back.  We had this trip planned perfectly with a 4 day cruise following the parks as it worked well with it being a leap year (i.e. so extra year of summer).  I sadly joked that we can reschedule in 4 years, but our DS will be married then (not quite....but you get my point)


----------



## Sue M

Aladora said:


> We have historically gone to DL in August so my Facebook memories this month have all been about Disney trips! 9 years ago today we took DS to Disneyland for his very first trip.


Me too   I can’t remember an Aug we haven’t been in Florida and WDW.  All of Aug my FB has my memories.  Sad we had to cancel this Aug but seeing all those happy photos does make me smile!


----------



## CJK

We've gone to Disney every August or September since 2005, so I share your pain. We're 10 days away from what would have been our next trip. *sigh*


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Air Canada Vacations now has COVID-19 medical insurance for all package vacations from Sept. 4 to April 30.
It is with  Allianz Global, which I believe is who the BMO Air Miles Mastercard uses.

https://vacations.aircanada.com/en/travel-info/allianz-covid-19-coverage-assistance-plan
https://vacations.aircanada.com/med...AwMzY1YWM3MTMxYTg3YTQ5MDc5YjQwZmFiNzFmYWNmYWE


----------



## damo

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> Air Canada Vacations now has COVID-19 medical insurance for all package vacations from Sept. 4 to April 30.
> It is with  Allianz Global, which I believe is who the BMO Air Miles Mastercard uses.
> 
> https://vacations.aircanada.com/en/travel-info/allianz-covid-19-coverage-assistance-plan
> https://vacations.aircanada.com/med...AwMzY1YWM3MTMxYTg3YTQ5MDc5YjQwZmFiNzFmYWNmYWE



I don't see prices.  Any ideas?


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

See the FAQ:

https://vacations.aircanada.com/med...ZkZmQyNGZjZGRhNDE0YTZiYWZmNDRiMWM1ODAyOGI0Y2Q
No cost.  The FAQ are actually quite good!


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

As I am reading the FAQ, it specifically says NO USA lol.  It's only for the listed locations in the Caribbean and Mexico.


----------



## mshanson3121

Reepicheep said:


> Seven or so weeks have gone by since I did the above calculation, so I thought I'd do an update.  I don't trust the current statistics for "new cases", so in the following I'm using a *death count* rather than a* new case count*.
> 
> The deaths in each jurisdiction are:
> - the 7 day moving average of daily deaths as of yesterday (August 26) in the US, Canada, California, and Florida
> - yesterday's reported death count for Orange County, California
> - 14 day average death count for Orange County, Florida
> 
> *966 -* *United States* (*8.8x* the population of Canada) *16x
> 124 -* *California * (*1.05x* the population of Canada)* 17x
> 114 -* *Florida* (*0.6x* the population of Canada) * 27x
> 7 - Orange County, California *(*0.085x* the population of Canada)* 12**x
> 26 - Orange County, Florida *(*0.037x *the population of Canada) *100x
> 7 -* *Canada*
> 
> Compared to seven weeks ago, the US is, overall, doing better, although it is hard to reject the conclusion that Orange County Florida is doing much worse as a result of the Florida theme parks reopening.
> 
> I don't think Canada will consider opening the border until the statistics for Canada and the US are much closer.



I really don't see it happening until next spring. I mean, it's definitely not going to be this fall, because numbers aren't good enough. And then odds are it's not going to be during winter (cold/flu season), either, due to increased risk, and the chances that we'll all be heading for a second spike. So, realistically, I just don't see it opening until the end of the cold/flu season which means next March/April.



hdrolfe said:


> Mine is too, last year and three years ago. We weren't supposed to be going this year, but this would make me wish we were planning a trip for next summer. Which I'm not comfortable doing yet.





momof2gr8kids said:


> Actually only by plane. And many places a quarrantine required. All canadians are not allowed to cross at land borders. Only essential services. People that have property an hour away in USA are turned away. Spouses are turned away. Although we allow spouses from usa to come to Canada as long as they quarantine.
> 
> I think it's the attitude of many Americans that it's their right to come here and do what they want, _which makes many canadians say screw it we'll travel elsewhere when this is all over._



I think there are many aspects of all of this that make Canadians, and many others from around the world, say they'll be travelling elsewhere when this is all over. I've read some good articles this summer discussing how ultimately, the US has become the world's laughing-stock, and how the "American Reign" has ended. It's no secret that the world's view of the US has definitely been declining in the last few years, and Covid definitely worsened that. As far as travel, we (Canadians in general) have always been more than happy to give Americans our travel money because they offer something we just don't have (warm sunny beaches and Disney - okay, two things, lol) and travel and shopping is much cheaper there. Which is really the main reason for many.  As a bonus, traveling to the US is preferable to some over going anywhere else because it's safe, familiar and comfortable, since it's not too different than home. However, I think the American response to Covid really was a slap in the face in many ways to our country, and others, and have really made us rethink our impressions of the US, and our own values as far as what we want to support/don't want to support via our dollars etc...


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

If I didn't already have $1800 in WDW gift cards, two 5-day WDW passes and flights booked to Orlando, I wouldn't even be looking at traveling there anytime soon.


----------



## quandrea

mshanson3121 said:


> I think there are many aspects of all of this that make Canadians, and many others from around the world, say they'll be travelling elsewhere when this is all over. I've read some good articles this summer discussing how ultimately, the US has become the world's laughing-stock, and how the "American Reign" has ended. It's no secret that the world's view of the US has definitely been declining in the last few years, and Covid definitely worsened that. As far as travel, we (Canadians in general) have always been more than happy to give Americans our travel money because they offer something we just don't have (warm sunny beaches and Disney - okay, two things, lol) and travel and shopping is much cheaper there. Which is really the main reason for many.  As a bonus, traveling to the US is preferable to some over going anywhere else because it's safe, familiar and comfortable, since it's not too different than home. However, I think the American response to Covid really was a slap in the face in many ways to our country, and others, and have really made us rethink our impressions of the US, and our own values as far as what we want to support/don't want to support via our dollars etc...


Agree with this. If it were not for our dvc, I don’t think we’d be considering heading back. We are even thinking of selling dvc. We will wait a bit to see how things shake down, but selling is a real possibility. Breaks my heart, but the US is not really an attractive place to be at this time. The east or west coast of Canada look really good to me as vacation destinations.


----------



## wdwmom3

mshanson3121 said:


> I really don't see it happening until next spring. I mean, it's definitely not going to be this fall, because numbers aren't good enough. And then odds are it's not going to be during winter (cold/flu season), either, due to increased risk, and the chances that we'll all be heading for a second spike. So, realistically, I just don't see it opening until the end of the cold/flu season which means next March/April.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think there are many aspects of all of this that make Canadians, and many others from around the world, say they'll be travelling elsewhere when this is all over. I've read some good articles this summer discussing how ultimately, the US has become the world's laughing-stock, and how the "American Reign" has ended. It's no secret that the world's view of the US has definitely been declining in the last few years, and Covid definitely worsened that. As far as travel, we (Canadians in general) have always been more than happy to give Americans our travel money because they offer something we just don't have (warm sunny beaches and Disney - okay, two things, lol) and travel and shopping is much cheaper there. Which is really the main reason for many.  As a bonus, traveling to the US is preferable to some over going anywhere else because it's safe, familiar and comfortable, since it's not too different than home. However, I think the American response to Covid really was a slap in the face in many ways to our country, and others, and have really made us rethink our impressions of the US, and our own values as far as what we want to support/don't want to support via our dollars etc...



I agree with this. And it’s not just Covid. There are other factors south of the border that make us very hesitant to travel there. I won’t get into those factors as I want to avoid my post being labeled political. But let’s just say several members of my family do not feel safe in the US.

As a family we have decided that when we do go (it will be fairly low risk from a covid perspective) that we will only travel to Disney. We will fly into Orlando, stay in the bubble and then fly home. But honestly we will only do that because we have tickets to Disney world already. if I could I would switch my tickets and go to Disney in France instead. But we can’t.

After that we probably won’t be back to the US for a very long time, hopefully some things will change.  Until then we will enjoy our time visiting other countries.  We have so much to explore, both at home in Canada, islands in the Caribbean, Europe etc.


----------



## Silvermist999

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> If I didn't already have $1800 in WDW gift cards, two 5-day WDW passes and flights booked to Orlando, I wouldn't even be looking at traveling there anytime soon.


I’m in a similar situation with lots of Disney gift cards (PC pts), four 7-day WDW tickets(air miles) plus Westjet flight credits from our cancelled March break trip.  I need to call Westjet to see if they will budge on issuing a refund. Not even sure we will even be flying anywhere within the two year time frame.


----------



## Pumpkin1172

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> As I am reading the FAQ, it specifically says NO USA lol. It's only for the listed locations in the Caribbean and Mexico.



This actually makes me happy.  
At some point, the boarder will open, people will be travelling again.  This means that the insurance companies do not see " the covid-19 virus " as the threat they did 6 months ago.   This gives me hope that maybe a winter getaway may be able to happen.   

At some point, we will be able to travel again.  Hopefully the quarantine upon return home will be somewhat lifted.  I am NOT saying to not to take precautions, but a shorter quarantine time, negative test and then wearing a mask in public and your personal work space for a specified amount of time.  It will be interesting to see what happens in the next 6-9 months.


----------



## Sue M

Pumpkin1172 said:


> This actually makes me happy.
> At some point, the boarder will open, people will be travelling again.  This means that the insurance companies do not see " the covid-19 virus " as the threat they did 6 months ago.   This gives me hope that maybe a winter getaway may be able to happen.
> 
> At some point, we will be able to travel again.  Hopefully the quarantine upon return home will be somewhat lifted.  I am NOT saying to not to take precautions, but a shorter quarantine time, negative test and then wearing a mask in public and your personal work space for a specified amount of time.  It will be interesting to see what happens in the next 6-9 months.


Hopefully, my fingers are crossed.  I have family and friends in Florida and California not to mention my Orlando trips.   And my cross border shopping trips!  I miss Trader Joes!  Can’t wait for things to get back to normal. 
Even for at home. I have about 5 friends in my bubble that as a group we’ve been getting together on our outside patios or back yards. We were just saying- what are we going to do when it gets cold?  None of us have had inside get togethers.  
And although we enjoyed our 2 mini getaways here. Both around 2 hrs from home, the hotels just aren’t the same, with restrictions and cutbacks on services.


----------



## quandrea

Sue M said:


> Hopefully, my fingers are crossed.  I have family and friends in Florida and California not to mention my Orlando trips.   And my cross border shopping trips!  I miss Trader Joes!  Can’t wait for things to get back to normal.
> Even for at home. I have about 5 friends in my bubble that as a group we’ve been getting together on our outside patios or back yards. We were just saying- *what are we going to do when it gets cold? * None of us have had inside get togethers.
> And although we enjoyed our 2 mini getaways here. Both around 2 hrs from home, the hotels just aren’t the same, with restrictions and cutbacks on services.


We are preparing ourselves for all socialising to end once it’s really cold. The summer has been fun with regular get togethers outside with distance. I’ve served preportioned, packaged snacks and drinks—we’ve made it work. We will be making lots of use of the phone and text messages. Not nearly the same.

And I’m with you on mini getaways. A poor substitute for my two week vacations. Although, I’m not up to big vacations right now; we lay low due to high risk factors. I did takeout last week and won’t do it again—too much stress for me, no fun. For now, I’ll await vaccine news and dream of vacations and freedom to come.


----------



## igrsod

Sue M said:


> I think it depends on more than an election. I’m glad to hear numbers are going down a bit or stabilizing but going down from thousands of cases is still a lot.
> I‘m still hanging on to my late Nov/Dec trip but if we still can’t get medical travel or have to do a 14 day quarantine I’ll be canceling. Don’t want to quarantine over Christmas.


That's us too.  We have a reservation for the last week of November into December... but we won't go without insurance or if we have to quarantine upon return.  None of us can work from home, so it would mean too long without a paycheque.  We are DVC members, so our points need to be used by the end of November.  Hoping to go, but not holding out much hope at this point.


----------



## zebsterama

We were supposed to be at Disney, and California Grill (my favorite restaurant on the planet) for my 50th B-Day in early October. Had a reservation (point rental) laid out for the Riviera ... but that's obviously not happening.

Hopefully things change / improve in the US soon. I think we could all use some good news.


----------



## Sue M

quandrea said:


> We are preparing ourselves for all socialising to end once it’s really cold. The summer has been fun with regular get togethers outside with distance. I’ve served preportioned, packaged snacks and drinks—we’ve made it work. We will be making lots of use of the phone and text messages. Not nearly the same.
> 
> And I’m with you on mini getaways. A poor substitute for my two week vacations. Although, I’m not up to big vacations right now; we lay low due to high risk factors. I did takeout last week and won’t do it again—too much stress for me, no fun. For now, I’ll await vaccine news and dream of vacations and freedom to come.


We jokingly said we should all buy outdoor heaters!  Maybe that will happen.


----------



## quandrea

Sue M said:


> We jokingly said we should all buy outdoor heaters!  Maybe that will happen.


We are considering a fire pit.


----------



## pigletto

Sue M said:


> We jokingly said we should all buy outdoor heaters!  Maybe that will happen.


Interestingly we were at a small family thing this weekend on my brothers back deck and someone said that they heard the next “hard to get” item was outdoor heaters. I think everyone is thinking about how to squeeze in some more time before it gets too cold.


----------



## momof2gr8kids

pigletto said:


> Interestingly we were at a small family thing this weekend on my brothers back deck and someone said that they heard the next “hard to get” item was outdoor heaters. I think everyone is thinking about how to squeeze in some more time before it gets too cold.


Yes, and restaurants trying to keep their patios open as long as possible are buying them up around here.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

https://news.paxeditions.com/news/a...anadas-covid-19-study-toronto-pearson-airport
Air Canada at YYZ (Pearson Airport) testing out a study.

https://news.paxeditions.com/news/airline/covid-19-tests-will-be-available-westjet-guests-yvr-fall
Westjet  at YVR (Vancouver) will start testing passengers on International flights this fall.

Looks like there will be some serious pushback against the ongoing 14-day quarantine in order to entice people to fly.


----------



## Jrb1979

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> https://news.paxeditions.com/news/a...anadas-covid-19-study-toronto-pearson-airport
> Air Canada at YYZ (Pearson Airport) testing out a study.
> 
> https://news.paxeditions.com/news/airline/covid-19-tests-will-be-available-westjet-guests-yvr-fall
> Westjet  at YVR (Vancouver) will start testing passengers on International flights this fall.
> 
> Looks like there will be some serious pushback against the ongoing 14-day quarantine in order to entice people to fly.


I would be ok if they drop the 14-day quarantine depending on the country you fly from. The US would still be a big no for the foreseeable future.


----------



## azrivest

Why don't they ask people to quarantine until they get a negative result instead? If I'm negative for COVID-19, why would I need to stay home any longer?


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

azrivest said:


> Why don't they ask people to quarantine until they get a negative result instead? If I'm negative for COVID-19, why would I need to stay home any longer?



Because they cannot pinpoint which date you will be showing infection. You may test on day 2 but not show infection until day 10.


----------



## Susan2771

azrivest said:


> Why don't they ask people to quarantine until they get a negative result instead? If I'm negative for COVID-19, why would I need to stay home any longer?



https://www.msn.com/en-ca/lifestyle...-pearson-in-toronto/ar-BB18Gdfu?ocid=msedgntp


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

@Susan2771 That is what I posted above. There is a video showing the process as well. It's part of a study the airport is participating in.


----------



## isabellea

azrivest said:


> Why don't they ask people to quarantine until they get a negative result instead? If I'm negative for COVID-19, why would I need to stay home any longer?


 If you got infected the day before or the day of your arrival back home, that's too early to be detected by the test. It might take up to 14 days for the test to be positive. A lot of damage can be done during that time. I personally would prefer they keep the 14 day quarantine for travelers, especially if the purpose of the trip was leisure.


----------



## wdwmom3

Travellers returning to Canada have been caught ignoring self-isolation rules, official says
International travellers who are required by law to self-isolate after entering Canada have been caught out in public settings ignoring quarantine rules, Ontario's top doctor says.

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/travelle...ing-quarantine-laws-top-doctor-says-1.5091576


----------



## Duck1

I assume that Canadians who do end up travelling to Florida don’t have to quarantine once they arrive in Florida  is that correct? I appreciate that a quarantine is still required once you arrive back home but wasn’t clear if it was still required for anyone coming in from out of state. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Starwind

Duck1 said:


> I assume that Canadians who do end up travelling to Florida don’t have to quarantine once they arrive in Florida  is that correct? I appreciate that a quarantine is still required once you arrive back home but wasn’t clear if it was still required for anyone coming in from out of state. Thanks in advance.



According to this FL Dept of Health Covid-19 page for travellers, Florida currently has no travel restrictions in place. https://floridahealthcovid19.gov/travelers/


----------



## White Cat

I drove into the US a few weeks ago at Buffalo. Not sure when I’ll re enter Canada. Maybe in several months, maybe spring.


----------



## Carolynleanne

My guess? Not til April or May of next year  Doesn't mean I wouldnt fly there though.


----------



## Chickinvic

wdwmom3 said:


> Travellers returning to Canada have been caught ignoring self-isolation rules, official says
> International travellers who are required by law to self-isolate after entering Canada have been caught out in public settings ignoring quarantine rules, Ontario's top doctor says.
> 
> https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/travelle...ing-quarantine-laws-top-doctor-says-1.5091576




Does not surprise me. I am constantly astounded by how many idiots there are even on my Facebook friend list (who I would have thought would know better). All insisting the government is in on a big conspiracy, and wearing masks is useless (or bad for you), etc. I have been very tempted to unfriend some people quite honestly. They post their drivel non-stop - and look for any "source" that backs up their nonsense.


----------



## damo

Chickinvic said:


> Does not surprise me. I am constantly astounded by how many idiots there are even on my Facebook friend list (who I would have thought would know better). All insisting the government is in on a big conspiracy, and wearing masks is useless (or bad for you), etc. I have been very tempted to unfriend some people quite honestly. They post their drivel non-stop - and look for any "source" that backs up their nonsense.



Thank goodness for the unfollow feature.  I agree with the absolute annoyance of non-stop drivel and the multitude of unsubstantiated youtube sources.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

@damo I was going to suggest to @Chickinvic to use the unfollow feature. It's a godsend LOL


----------



## White Cat

Carolynleanne said:


> My guess? Not til April or May of next year  Doesn't mean I wouldnt fly there though.


I drove  across in July because we wanted to get a car back to our place in the US, brought a pet along too. Mine was the only Canadian car that I saw. The border was empty, of course. I can return to Canada at any time as I have duel residence. My spouse flew out today along with our dog.  Only  carries a Canada passport for now. Brought our dog on the plane as well. USA customs at the airport didn’t ask much. Just wants to get back to the house in Florida. Also can return at anytime. I’m not sure many Canadians know that they can leave, by air. I have health insurance in the USA. My spouse  has travel insurance that covers this virus, many don’t know that existed, but it does.


----------



## Jrb1979

White Cat said:


> I drove  across in July because we wanted to get a car back to our place in the US, brought a pet along too. Mine was the only Canadian car that I saw. The border was empty, of course. I can return to Canada at any time as I have duel residence. My spouse flew out today along with our dog.  Only  carries a Canada passport for now. Brought our dog on the plane as well. USA customs at the airport didn’t ask much. Just wants to get back to the house in Florida. Also can return at anytime. I’m not sure many Canadians know that they can leave, by air. I have health insurance in the USA. My spouse  has travel insurance that covers this virus, many don’t know that existed, but it does.


I think most know they can leave by air. Most choose not to cause of the mandatory quarantine upon return. Majority of people can't get 3 weeks off in a row. Also many don't feel it's safe to go the US right now. While our cases are rising a bit here, cases in many parts of the US are still very high.


----------



## tinkerone

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> @damo I was going to suggest to @Chickinvic to use the unfollow feature. It's a godsend LOL


It's a great feature but I choose to unfriend people who want to spread disinformation.  I don't need that negativity in my life and even if I don't see it, it's still there.  
I have unfriended several family members for things including ranting with lots of curse words (bad ones) and touting the great things about someone I won't name because of politics.  I unfriended a person, who I thought was so sweet, because she posted a very old article on a rape which was committed by a Muslim and ranted about how all Muslims do this and should not be allowed in our country.  Nope, unfriend.   I can disagree with you but if you are going to try and bring my day down your out.  I don't want to be associated with them or show on their friends list.  Someone could take that association as agreeing with them.  Gone!


----------



## bcwife76

Well we are a week away (ok 8 days) from the latest Sept 21 deadline so we should get another update any day now. The past couple of closuras they have been announced at least a week in advance so I suspect tomorrow or Tuesday we will probably hear about the next extension.


----------



## White Cat

bcwife76 said:


> Well we are a week away (ok 8 days) from the latest Sept 21 deadline so we should get another update any day now. The past couple of closuras they have been announced at least a week in advance so I suspect tomorrow or Tuesday we will probably hear about the next extension.


Hopefully t will open but I would bet against it.


----------



## bcwife76

White Cat said:


> Hopefully t will open but I would bet against it.


I'm still thinking January 2021 at the earliest. I just checked and the most recent extension was announced Aug 14 so probably going to hear tomorrow, Sept 14.


----------



## Sunelis

At this point I hope they'll open the border but enforce the 14 days quarantine for people entering the country and HUGE fines for those not respecting it.


----------



## Best_Vacation_EVER!

Sunelis said:


> At this point I hope they'll open the border but enforce the 14 days quarantine for people entering the country and HUGE fines for those not respecting it.



I think until there is some notion of science guiding our friends in the US before we should give any benefit of the doubt .... we should keep the border  locked VERY tight based on current info....   Sad to see that current visitors can't respect our laws..   Why let more in to flaunt our quarantine rules....   It makes zero sense to expand it when even basic public health requirements can't be respected.   By the time you apply more penalties... more Canadian spread happens.... it's just not worth it.


----------



## CJK

Anyone hear of an update? I'm surprised we haven't heard about the border closure being extended again. Unless I missed it?


----------



## pigletto

CJK said:


> Anyone here of an update? I'm surprised we haven't heard about the border closure being extended again. Unless I missed it?


It was extended late August to the 21st of September I think . So it should be  coming soon. I see zero chance of it opening .


----------



## CJK

pigletto said:


> It was extended late August to the 21st of September I think . So it should be coming soon. I see zero chance of it opening .


I doubt the border will open too. In August, the closure extension was announced on Aug. 14th, so hopefully we hear something soon. My American friends don't believe the border closure will be extended.


----------



## wdwmom3

Sunelis said:


> At this point I hope they'll open the border but enforce the 14 days quarantine for people entering the country and HUGE fines for those not respecting it.



not going to happen.  People are already not following orders when they cross the border. The border needs to stay closed to tourists.


----------



## wdwmom3

CJK said:


> I doubt the border will open too. In August, the closure extension was announced on Aug. 14th, so hopefully we hear something soon. My American friends don't believe the border will be extended.



but it’s not really up the the Americans. Right now we have an agreemenr that goes both ways.  But if the US wants it open and starts letting Canadians in, Canada can still refuse American tourists.  And if you listen to the tone of the government today and how concerned they are about cases going up, they are not going to open the border now and make things even worse.


----------



## bcwife76

I caught the tail end of a news story the other night that stated the US president has increasing pressure to reopen the border. Wish I'd been paying more attention, oops. Anyway, as someone already stated, even if the US opens up to us (land crossing) does not mean Canada will reciprocate. August 14th was the last announcement for an extension so we should be hearing very soon, though I know the PM is at his cabinet retreat (not sure how long that is on for but I believe just a couple of days?) so we might not hear until he is back from that.


----------



## Daisy*Duck*y

I do wonder if it will be opened now that the summer travel season is over.


----------



## jerseygal

Over the course of the last couple of months, we have been speaking with many real estate agents in the Sarasota, Florida area. Apparently, there are many Canadians that "snow bird" typically for a few winter months on the Sarasota coast typically, places like Siesta Key, Longboat Key, Anna Maria Island, Lido Key but many owners and snow bird tenants have been scrambling to figure out what to do.
Hope that the situation improves soon!


----------



## White Cat

jerseygal said:


> Over the course of the last couple of months, we have been speaking with many real estate agents in the Sarasota, Florida area. Apparently, there are many Canadians that "snow bird" typically for a few winter months on the Sarasota coast typically, places like Siesta Key, Longboat Key, Anna Maria Island, Lido Key but many owners and snow bird tenants have been scrambling to figure out what to do.
> Hope that the situation improves soon!


Love that area was there yesterday in Sarasota. I imagine some Canadians will be over cautious and stay home. Others will be like us and realize or come to see that what’s being told to them by CTV  and pushed be certain people in Canada is largely overblown and not in the proper prospective and a way of controlling the population. I feel safer with more controls in place than I did in Ontario.


----------



## bababear_50

White Cat said:


> Love that area was there yesterday in Sarasota. I imagine some Canadians will be over cautious and stay home. Others will be like us and realize or come to see that what’s being told to them by CTV  and pushed be certain people in Canada is largely overblown and not in the proper prospective and a way of controlling the population. I feel safer with more controls in place than I did in Ontario.



White Cat
Can you elaborate on what controls are in place that make you feel safer?
What would you suggest is the proper perspective,,and what do you think Canadians are being told by CTV.?
 Canadians are quite an educated, independent and thoughtful group of people ,,,no control here!

Mel


----------



## momof2gr8kids

White Cat said:


> Love that area was there yesterday in Sarasota. I imagine some Canadians will be over cautious and stay home. Others will be like us and realize or come to see that what’s being told to them by CTV  and pushed be certain people in Canada is largely overblown and not in the proper prospective and a way of controlling the population. I feel safer with more controls in place than I did in Ontario.


I think a lot of Canadians, especially snowbirds will be cautious depending on if they are in high risk, if they have a family member that's high risk, and if they can get medical insurance.  Insurance will be a big deciding factor for people going to the states or anywhere else.  I hope anyways.  Because I certainly don't want to hear their whining or the stupid news stories of how they were stuck somewhere and the government didn't help, or their insurance didn't pay,  when they chose to travel during a pandemic.


----------



## igrsod

I can't see the border reopening any time soon.  Case counts are still high in the USA.  Why would we open it now?  
Until they get the virus spread under control, I feel the border will stay closed.  
Besides, who can quarantine for 2 weeks after a vacation, and travel health insurance may be a problem for Canadians.
My inlaws, who are snowbirds, are not going to Florida for the winter for the first time in years.


----------



## wdwmom3

White Cat said:


> Love that area was there yesterday in Sarasota. I imagine some Canadians will be over cautious and stay home. Others will be like us and realize or come to see that what’s being told to them by CTV  and pushed be certain people in Canada is largely overblown and not in the proper prospective and a way of controlling the population. I feel safer with more controls in place than I did in Ontario.



I don’t know what you think we are being told.  And we aren’t being “controlled”.  I will be careful here so I don’t get accused of getting “political”.  But let’s just say there is good reason 80% of Canadians want the border to remain closed.  And it’s  not because we are being “controlled”, and I’m sure we would still have this view even if we never watched Canadian media


----------



## wdwmom3

jerseygal said:


> Over the course of the last couple of months, we have been speaking with many real estate agents in the Sarasota, Florida area. Apparently, there are many Canadians that "snow bird" typically for a few winter months on the Sarasota coast typically, places like Siesta Key, Longboat Key, Anna Maria Island, Lido Key but many owners and snow bird tenants have been scrambling to figure out what to do.
> Hope that the situation improves soon!



By situation improving I hope you are referring to the US getting things under control. Yes I hope that improves too.

Border should not open until it is under control and taken a little more seriously


----------



## Gigi22

My DSis and her hubby are still playing “the wait and see” game, hoping that things get better so they can get to their winter home in Florida.  But, the absence of affordable out of country travel insurance for snowbirds (for close to a six month period) makes it impossible right now.  That’s the real deal-breaker for retirees.  Nobody wants that kind of a financial risk.


----------



## tinkerone

White Cat said:


> Love that area was there yesterday in Sarasota. I imagine some Canadians will be over cautious and stay home. Others will be like us and realize or come to see that what’s being told to them by CTV  and pushed be certain people in Canada is largely overblown and not in the proper prospective and a way of controlling the population. I feel safer with more controls in place than I did in Ontario.


This is the attitude of a person who comes back to Canada and doesn't bother to quarantine because, hey, it's an overblown story.  I highly doubt it's to control the population, it's to control a_ virus_.  Period. 
I'm glad you feel comfortable in a country that can't control this but lets let the horse finish the race before declaring a winner.  Make it back, do your quarantine and then go ahead and brag about how much better things are in the US.  Then, only then, will I take any of this into account.  
And lets keep the borders closed until the mess on the other side of the fence gets under control.


----------



## wdwmom3

tinkerone said:


> This is the attitude of a person who comes back to Canada and doesn't bother to quarantine because, hey, it's an overblown story.  I highly doubt it's to control the population, it's to control a_ virus_.  Period.
> I'm glad you feel comfortable in a country that can't control this but lets let the horse finish the race before declaring a winner.  Make it back, do your quarantine and then go ahead and brag about how much better things are in the US.  Then, only then, will I take any of this into account.
> And lets keep the borders closed until the mess on the other side of the fence gets under control.



yep.  And these attitudes are why I wish they would get a lot tougher and give our huge fines for people that don’t follow the quarantine.


----------



## Reepicheep

I've recently learned that some of my closest friends (all retired, well read, and well educated Canadians) believe that Coronavirus is basically a hoax.  Their logic is:* there are very few cases in Canada, therefore our precautions are unnecessary. * They don't accept my counterargument that* there are very few cases in Canada because we are taking precautions.*

I have also learned that my friends have views on topics like immigration, race relations, etc. which are offensive to me (similar to the views of a certain person who I won't name).  I'm amazed that there are people I've known for well over forty years who I apparently didn't know at all.

Sadly, it is more accurate to call these people my "ex-friends", since I'm in the process of gradually and delicately extricating them from my life.

There seem to be more and more protests recently in Canada, where Canadians are complaining about our coronavirus precautions.


----------



## wdwmom3

Reepicheep said:


> I've recently learned that some of my closest friends (all retired, well read, and well educated Canadians) believe that Coronavirus is basically a hoax.  Their logic is:* there are very few cases in Canada, therefore our precautions are unnecessary. * They don't accept my counterargument that* there are very few cases in Canada because we are taking precautions.*
> 
> I have also learned that my friends have views on topics like immigration, race relations, etc. which are offensive to me (similar to the views of a certain person who I won't name).  I'm amazed that there are people I've known for close to fifty years who I apparently didn't know at all.
> 
> Sadly, it is more accurate to call these people my "ex-friends", since I'm in the process of gradually and delicately extricating them from my life.
> 
> There seem to be more and more protests recently in Canada, where Canadians are complaining about our coronavirus precautions.



I don’t get this logic either.  Canada, many precautions, low cases.  All they have to do is then compare to the US, in many places (not all) few precautions, high cases and deaths (almost 200,000).  It doesn’t take a genius to see how precautions make a difference 

I too have also said goodbye to several “friends” and distanced myself from a couple family members.


----------



## jerseygal

tinkerone said:


> This is the attitude of a person who comes back to Canada and doesn't bother to quarantine because, hey, it's an overblown story.  I highly doubt it's to control the population, it's to control a_ virus_.  Period.
> I'm glad you feel comfortable in a country that can't control this but lets let the horse finish the race before declaring a winner.  Make it back, do your quarantine and then go ahead and brag about how much better things are in the US.  Then, only then, will I take any of this into account.
> And lets keep the borders closed until the mess on the other side of the fence gets under control.


Simple then, stay in a bunker till it’s safe for you, no need to Travel..that’s your decision and right, not right for everyone though


----------



## jerseygal

Gigi22 said:


> My DSis and her hubby are still playing “the wait and see” game, hoping that things get better so they can get to their winter home in Florida.  But, the absence of affordable out of country travel insurance for snowbirds (for close to a six month period) makes it impossible right now.  That’s the real deal-breaker for retirees.  Nobody wants that kind of a financial risk.


Hopefully folks in the future will be able to obtain travel insurance and escape the bitter cold!


----------



## tinkerone

jerseygal said:


> Simple then, stay in a bunker till it’s safe for you, no need to Travel..that’s your decision and right, nor right for everyone though


First of all at no time did I say no one should travel.  I actually said I was glad they felt comfortable in a country that couldn't control the virus.   I would not go to the US myself as they are not doing a good job _IMO _but didn't tell anyone else not to go there.  
Second of all, where did I mention staying in a bunker?  I feel fine traveling within my country, we are doing a great job.  We have protocols in place that keeps our numbers low.  Canada is pretty big, bigger than a bunker.
Please don't put words in my mouth.  I will return the favor.


----------



## isabellea

Yesterday, a researcher who conducts research on people who believe Covid-19 is a hoax/conspiracy and is part of an international team, said that 18% of Canadians believe in them. What blew my mind is that we have one of the lowest percentage. American are at 38%! Lots of entitled Covidiots out there who will put their vacation needs over everything else.

My parents are snowbirds (they own a house in Quebec city and a condo in Fort Lauderdale) and usually leave Canada after Halloween and return after Easter. My dad is high risk and while he’s not afraid of Covid-19 and probably should take more precautions, he’s also a nurse by training (first cohort obtaining a B.Sc.N in QC) and he decided to buy snow tires for the first time in over 10 years and stay in Canada this winter. Even if he can get insurance that covers Covid-19 in the USA, they are not going. His reasoning, and I agree, is that come late fall, the number of at-risk individuals in FL (aka. retirees) will skyrocket and with FL current numbers, chances are the ICUs will get full pretty quickly. So even if chances of getting Covid-19 can be low if taking precautions, what if you need an ICU bed for another reason like a heart attack but they are full?!? My grandfather died in FL from a stroke after spending a few days at the ICU and my aunt got hospitalized in FL for a heart attack so not an unreasonable assumption.


----------



## bababear_50

Today's article on this subject
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/cana...costs/ar-BB192YAB?li=AAggNb9&ocid=mailsignout


----------



## Susan2771

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/worl...-exemptions-sources/ar-BB194kq3?ocid=msedgntp


----------



## ottawamom

jerseygal said:


> Hopefully folks in the future will be able to obtain travel insurance and escape the bitter cold!


Woa! Some of us enjoy the cold. You just need to be born here to enjoy it.


----------



## jerseygal

ottawamom said:


> Woa! Some of us enjoy the cold. You just need to be born here to enjoy it.


The term bitter cold is just that, nothing negative. Don't think that you can argue that Canada is bitter cold. We lived in Ct for 10 years, its just that,  bitter cold.


----------



## bababear_50

Well I for one am considering a few options instead of the USA for a *let's escape the bitter cold*.
 Riviera Maya, Mexico comes to mind 

Hugs
Mel


----------



## Aladora

jerseygal said:


> The term bitter cold is just that, nothing negative. Don't think that you can argue that Canada is bitter cold. We lived in Ct for 10 years, its just that,  bitter cold.



Lol, not everywhere in Canada! Where I live it barely drops below freezing.


----------



## Chickinvic

ottawamom said:


> Woa! Some of us enjoy the cold. You just need to be born here to enjoy it.



In all my years living in Ottawa I don't think I met a single person who enjoyed that level of cold lol.


----------



## Chickinvic

Aladora said:


> Lol, not everywhere in Canada! Where I live it barely drops below freezing.



Yes, I'm from Victoria. No real winter


----------



## Chickinvic

White Cat said:


> Love that area was there yesterday in Sarasota. I imagine some Canadians will be over cautious and stay home. Others will be like us and realize or come to see that what’s being told to them by CTV  and pushed be certain people in Canada is largely overblown and not in the proper prospective and a way of controlling the population. I feel safer with more controls in place than I did in Ontario.



I would hardly call people choosing to stay in Canada "over cautious".


----------



## Chickinvic

Reepicheep said:


> I've recently learned that some of my closest friends (all retired, well read, and well educated Canadians) believe that Coronavirus is basically a hoax.  Their logic is:* there are very few cases in Canada, therefore our precautions are unnecessary. * They don't accept my counterargument that* there are very few cases in Canada because we are taking precautions.*
> 
> I have also learned that my friends have views on topics like immigration, race relations, etc. which are offensive to me (similar to the views of a certain person who I won't name).  I'm amazed that there are people I've known for well over forty years who I apparently didn't know at all.
> 
> Sadly, it is more accurate to call these people my "ex-friends", since I'm in the process of gradually and delicately extricating them from my life.
> 
> There seem to be more and more protests recently in Canada, where Canadians are complaining about our coronavirus precautions.



Me too. Can't stand the ones who are constantly pushing this view on Facebook - posting everything that supports their bias from questionable sources. I had no idea I was associated with this many idiots.


----------



## Chickinvic

jerseygal said:


> Simple then, stay in a bunker till it’s safe for you, no need to Travel..that’s your decision and right, not right for everyone though



What a dumb, dismissive comment. Pretty big stretch to tell someone to "stay in their bunker" just because they aren't trivializing the risk from this virus.


----------



## samsteele

isabellea said:


> So even if chances of getting Covid-19 can be low if taking precautions, what if you need an ICU bed for another reason like a heart attack but they are full?!?


Agree. I know more than 20 plus snowbirds. None are going back to Florida this fall. Most own homes there. All have American contacts and friends in their communities who are living nearby. All have strongly suggested or out right warned Canadians not to return until at least early next winter. Covid numbers too high. Food security in grocery stores is a concern. Too stressful and too much risk re election fall out and riots. 

Travel insurance to the US is a big deal. If someone has a wonderful offer or tip, pls post so we can take a look at it. I don't know any main stream insurers offering full, supportive coverage to the US. To individual Carib islands for all inclusive resorts sponsored by desperate Cdn airlines - we know about those. Maybe if you stay in the bubble you will be OK. We hope.

Big practical issue: Most snowbirds not comfortable flying on a plane esp from Toronto to Orlando. ps if you've found a loophole to duck through customs and can drive through, I don't really want to hear about it. Let's stay safe, be smart, protect our seniors, parents, grandparents and our vulnerable with health conditions. Heck, lets protect our economy by keeping Canadian workers and consumers safe and able to get into the stores and stock those shelves for the winter. I love the US and my American cousins. But the next 6 months is not a smart time to travel.


----------



## quandrea

The question that I always want to ask the people who think Covid is a hoax is, “Why?  Who is creating this hoax and what is the motivation?”  I’m a scientist and so far, all the science seems to check out. I read multiple journal articles every day and doesn’t seem like a hoax to me or to all the other scientists peer reviewing these articles.


----------



## samsteele

quandrea said:


> “Why? Who is creating this hoax and what is the motivation?”


Agree. Most nations enjoy global interdependency. Free trade. Free (mostly) travel and commerce. Free(ish) exchange of good, money and people makes the world go round. No hoax here. When the dust settles and people are saf(er), will be some pressing questions as to 1) why didn't our govts warn us earlier? Don't tell us we are sheeple and couldn't handle it 2) why didn't our free press push harder - maybe domestic politics sells more than global virus? PC issues? All to be explored and either debunked or fleshed out who knows 3) for the responsible nation where this originated, why wasn't there full transparency and both early and conscientious national and international warning? 4) for international organizations, both political and medical, why didn't they raise the alarm bells loudly rather than padding them with political considerations? Fear for career professionals' own personal careers and reputations? Lots of blame to go around. In time. Think everyone hopes blame will result in constructive, positive changes to make the world a safer place.


----------



## momof2gr8kids

Note to self - get my winter tires soon.  Seems that will be the next thing flying off the shelves since the snow birds are staying.  It's bad enough I have to wait in line on a Saturday in the grocery store with those retirees, now I won't be able to find snow tires.  Damn them!


----------



## wdwmom3

samsteele said:


> Agree. Most nations enjoy global interdependency. Free trade. Free (mostly) travel and commerce. Free(ish) exchange of good, money and people makes the world go round. No hoax here. When the dust settles and people are saf(er), will be some pressing questions as to 1) why didn't our govts warn us earlier? Don't tell us we are sheeple and couldn't handle it 2) why didn't our free press push harder - maybe domestic politics sells more than global virus? PC issues? All to be explored and either debunked or fleshed out who knows 3) for the responsible nation where this originated, why wasn't there full transparency and both early and conscientious national and international warning? 4) for international organizations, both political and medical, why didn't they raise the alarm bells loudly rather than padding them with political considerations? Fear for career professionals' own personal careers and reputations? Lots of blame to go around. In time. Think everyone hopes blame will result in constructive, positive changes to make the world a safer place.



Actually blame rarely does this.  And if you blame governments in countries where it started you must also blame leaders that refuse to take it seriously today.


----------



## Reepicheep

_The federal government will extend the Canada-U.S. land border closure for* another 30 days until Oct. 21*, CBC News has learned.  A source with direct knowledge of the situation, who spoke to CBC on the condition they not be named, said Canadians should* expect the border to remain closed at least through the Christmas holidays and possibly for longer*. 

Canada to keep border with U.S. closed until at least Oct. 21, says source_


----------



## csm101

This has been posted on MSN and Toronto Sun

https://torontosun.com/news/nationa...ces/wcm/802d1c44-ba46-494f-8bf5-8a92078b9130/


----------



## Carolynleanne

Reepicheep said:


> _The federal government will extend the Canada-U.S. land border closure for* another 30 days until Oct. 21*, CBC News has learned.  A source with direct knowledge of the situation, who spoke to CBC on the condition they not be named, said Canadians should* expect the border to remain closed at least through the Christmas holidays and possibly for longer*.
> 
> Canada to keep border with U.S. closed until at least Oct. 21, says source_


I fully expected that! My guess? Not til March of next year at the earliest


----------



## FigmentSpark

Carolynleanne said:


> I fully expected that! My guess? Not til March of next year at the earliest


I'm betting it'll be AFTER spring break.  On purpose.


----------



## Sue M

Aladora said:


> Lol, not everywhere in Canada! Where I live it barely drops below freezing.


Yes we’re lucky living in Lotus Land!


----------



## pigletto

White Cat said:


> Love that area was there yesterday in Sarasota. I imagine some Canadians will be over cautious and stay home. Others will be like us and realize or come to see that what’s being told to them by CTV  and pushed be certain people in Canada is largely overblown and not in the proper prospective and a way of controlling the population. I feel safer with more controls in place than I did in Ontario.


And some Canadians rely on science and a sense of social responsibility to make their decisions.


----------



## Reepicheep

Sue M said:


> Yes we’re lucky living in Lotus Land!



Back in the early 1970s, *Weekend Magazine* had a weekly contest, where readers were encouraged to compose and submit limericks about a different city each week.  I still remember the winning entry about Vancouver:

*It rains too much in Vancouver.
It rains too much in Vancouver.
It rains in Vancouver.
It rains in Vancouver.
It rains too much in Vancouver.*

I've only stayed overnight in Vancouver once (in January 2018 when we flew there for my daughter's Disney interview) and it rained non-stop the entire 36 hours we were there.  But still preferable to Edmonton snow and ice, I must admit.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

https://news.paxeditions.com/news/b...c-travel-plan-insurance-will-be-available-oct
Coming this October, the *Manulife COVID-19 Pandemic Travel Plan *will be available to Canadians travelling in Canada and internationally, including to countries with a Level 3 Travel Advisory.

Interesting...


----------



## igrsod

What do you think the chances are of the border being open by the end of November?  We have a rescheduled trip planned then, but I'm not going if the border is still closed and 14 day quarantine is still mandatory.


----------



## isabellea

igrsod said:


> What do you think the chances are of the border being open by the end of November?  We have a rescheduled trip planned then, but I'm not going if the border is still closed and 14 day quarantine is still mandatory.



Even if the border re-opens Oct 22 (would be surprising), I’m not expecting the 14-day mandatory quarantine to be lifted for a very long time. In fact, I wish we were more strict on quarantines and isolations with more checks and maybe mandatory tracking (only for the quarantine period obviously).


----------



## igrsod

isabellea said:


> Even if the border re-opens Oct 22 (would be surprising), I’m not expecting the 14-day mandatory quarantine to be lifted for a very long time. In fact, I wish we were more strict on quarantines and isolations with more checks and maybe mandatory tracking (only for the quarantine period obviously).


I hear you, I'm just wishing on a star.
Honestly, when we first went into lockdown, I never in my wildest dreams thought we would still be in the thick of it at this point.  I thought for sure we would have a handle on it by now.
I guess I will keep hoping.


----------



## Reepicheep

igrsod said:


> Honestly, when we first went into lockdown, I never in my wildest dreams thought we would still be in the thick of it at this point.  I thought for sure we would have a handle on it by now.



Yes, how times change.  In March, I assured my daughter that covid would be under control in two months time, and that she would fly to Orlando as scheduled in mid-May for her summer job at Disney World.  The way things stand now, I think there is a good chance that Disney won't be hiring any university students at all in 2021, not even American students, since it will take at least another year for all furloughed permanent Disney employees to be called back to work.

************

After writing the above paragraph, I thought I'd do a quick google search to see if I could find any Disney communications with employees, and found the following email Disney sent to furloughed employees in mid-August.  Not very encouraging:

*“When we initially notified you of your furlough, we could not have anticipated that it could exceed six months.  However, due to business circumstances that were not reasonably foreseeable at the time and given the unprecedented and ongoing nature of the pandemic and its impact on our businesses, we regret to inform you that we now reasonably expect your furlough could extend beyond six months from your initial furlough date.  We hope that our businesses will be back up and running and that your furlough will remain temporary, but the evolving and unpredictable nature of the pandemic creates uncertainty.” *


----------



## Gigi22

And be sure you have good winter boots too!  Always excepting those fortunate souls who live in Lotus Land (and maybe around parts of Niagara too).


----------



## Chickinvic

Reepicheep said:


> Back in the early 1970s, *Weekend Magazine* had a weekly contest, where readers were encouraged to compose and submit limericks about a different city each week.  I still remember the winning entry about Vancouver:
> 
> *It rains too much in Vancouver.
> It rains too much in Vancouver.
> It rains in Vancouver.
> It rains in Vancouver.
> It rains too much in Vancouver.*
> 
> I've only stayed overnight in Vancouver once (in January 2018 when we flew there for my daughter's Disney interview) and it rained non-stop the entire 36 hours we were there.  But still preferable to Edmonton snow and ice, I must admit.



It does rain lots in Vancouver. Vancouver weather depresses me. Here in Victoria we are protected by a rain shadow (Olympic mountains), and we don't even get half the rain Vancouver does. Victoria has much better weather.


----------



## Chickinvic

igrsod said:


> What do you think the chances are of the border being open by the end of November?  We have a rescheduled trip planned then, but I'm not going if the border is still closed and 14 day quarantine is still mandatory.



Nil.


----------



## Chickinvic

igrsod said:


> I hear you, I'm just wishing on a star.
> Honestly, when we first went into lockdown, I never in my wildest dreams thought we would still be in the thick of it at this point.  I thought for sure we would have a handle on it by now.
> I guess I will keep hoping.



We kind of do have a handle on it - the US on the other hand...


----------



## pigletto

igrsod said:


> I hear you, I'm just wishing on a star.
> Honestly, when we first went into lockdown, I never in my wildest dreams thought we would still be in the thick of it at this point.  I thought for sure we would have a handle on it by now.
> I guess I will keep hoping.


I totally understand that. I honesty think our brains accept big changes in smaller increments rather than all at once. I know I came to each realization by degrees. I would realize “hey this means maybe no travel this year “ or “ wow, maybe the kids can’t go back to school this Spring” and then be really down about it for a day or two. Then I move on. I think if you had told me back in March all at once what was going to change it would have been so hard to digest.
Even now I’m expecting some return to normalcy later in 2021. And if we can’t travel freely by then.. well, Im not ready to think about it yet.


----------



## wdwmom3

igrsod said:


> What do you think the chances are of the border being open by the end of November?  We have a rescheduled trip planned then, but I'm not going if the border is still closed and 14 day quarantine is still mandatory.



Not gonna happen.  I’ve read reports that they are looking to at least after Christmas.  You absolutely won’t see the quarantine lifted by then.


----------



## bcwife76

Now that the retreat is wrapped up I'm assuming the 'official' announcement (though we all know it will be Oct 21 at least) will come out tomorrow.


----------



## bcwife76

wdwmom3 said:


> Not gonna happen.  I’ve read reports that they are looking to at least after Christmas.  You absolutely won’t see the quarantine lifted by then.


Yep, my money (ok, a whole 2 cents worth   ) is on the border opening/quarantine lifted by January 21 2021....


----------



## FigmentSpark

bcwife76 said:


> Yep, my money (ok, a whole 2 cents worth   ) is on the border opening/quarantine lifted by January 21 2021....


That would be in time for the Feb/Mar/Apr snowbirds to get down south.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

And then when they comeback we have to go through this lockdown all again.  Assuming that the Southern States are still in a mess at that time.


----------



## samsteele

FigmentSpark said:


> That would be in time for the Feb/Mar/Apr snowbirds to get down south.


But will snowbirds be vaccinated with a proven, effective vaccine by next April? We all hope. Doubt many will chance it without the vaccine.


----------



## Maddysdaddy

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> https://news.paxeditions.com/news/b...c-travel-plan-insurance-will-be-available-oct
> Coming this October, the *Manulife COVID-19 Pandemic Travel Plan *will be available to Canadians travelling in Canada and internationally, including to countries with a Level 3 Travel Advisory.
> 
> Interesting...



Not quite the panacea we were all hoping for and I hope that those I’m seeing on social media who are excited about this actually read the fine print, as Covid coverage under the policy apparently maxes out at $200k.

Since I’m _sure_ no one would ever decide to lie and say they’re healthy in order to fly back to Canada once they’re experiencing Covid symptoms down south, $200k isn’t going to go very far if medical intervention is required. 

As much as my family and I want to head back to Disney, we’re not willing to gamble everything we’ve worked for our entire lives on the hope that one of us won’t need to be hospitalized. Yes, odds are that we’d probably be fine, but for us, no vacation is worth the worry of losing our home and retirement to medical bills if the worst happened.


----------



## Best_Vacation_EVER!

Interesting email I received from Air Canada just now ....   Looks like they're including the new Manulife Insurance with round trip international flights until Oct 31st.


----------



## tlcdoula

Best_Vacation_EVER! said:


> Interesting email I received from Air Canada just now ....   Looks like they're including the new Manulife Insurance with round trip international flights until Oct 31st.
> 
> View attachment 526414


Wow, they are really trying to get people on the flights.  I can't blame them their numbers being so low.  I am not sure I could travel right now, I might be more tempted to drive somewhere knowing I have more control over where we are stopping etc.  I think I would be to worried about the airports, standing in line for customs etc.

When we came home from Mexico in mid March I felt ok up until we stepped off the plane at YVR and walked around the corner and seen the lines of people waiting to get through customs.  I am sure they having social distancing set up now or I sure hope they do but that was the most stressful couple of hours waiting to get on our hopper plane to the island.


----------



## Maddysdaddy

Best_Vacation_EVER! said:


> Interesting email I received from Air Canada just now ....   Looks like they're including the new Manulife Insurance with round trip international flights until Oct 31st.
> 
> View attachment 526414



Again, I would ask everyone to please, please read the fine print and note the $200k Covid limit...


----------



## Reepicheep

Does anyone know anything about* MEDIPAC Travel Insurance*?  On the following webpage, you can enter length of trip, age, and deductible and get an immediate "quick quote".  It appears COVID-19 is covered.

https://www.medipac.com/


----------



## Chickinvic

wdwmom3 said:


> You know I really wish people who refuse to take things seriously would stop telling people to “hide in their houses”.  It’s insulting.  We are not hiding in our houses. Having valid concerns and taking things seriously doesn’t mean any of us are afraid to leave our homes and do things.  Wanting to reduce risk is nothing to be ashamed of or mock.
> 
> Honestly you sound like a child that just wants to call people names.  Disgusting.



The ones I really can't stand are the ones that refer to anyone who is taking precautions as "sheeple". I hate that term at the best of times, and to me it just proves someone is an idiot as soon as they spout off with that one.


----------



## Carolynleanne

It's okay to be concerned about the virus and not want to go. It's also okay to be aware of what's happening and choose to still go. It's NOT okay to tell other people what decisions to make or name call for EITHER decision.


----------



## wdwmom3

Carolynleanne said:


> It's okay to be concerned about the virus and not want to go. It's also okay to be aware of what's happening and choose to still go. It's NOT okay to tell other people what decisions to make or name call for EITHER decision.



I agree with most of this except,  people’s actions today can have huge implications on other people.  If you are choosing to take risks you are also potentially exposing others to those same risks.  So I do feel people do have a right to be upset about things like that.


----------



## Carolynleanne

wdwmom3 said:


> I agree with most of this except,  people’s actions today can have huge implications on other people.  If you are choosing to take risks you are also potentially exposing others to those same risks.  So I do feel people do have a right to be upset about things like that.



I understand, but I also think the idea of living in a country that completely controls the freedoms of its citizens is a very scary thought.


----------



## wdwmom3

Carolynleanne said:


> I understand, but I also think the idea of living in a country that completely controls the freedoms of its citizens is a very scary thought.



If people would just take things seriously and make good decisions they wouldn’t need rules and laws. For example if people weren’t organizing huge houses parties causing a huge increase in cases, the Ontario goverbemnt wouldn’t have needed to reduce the size of gathering and make fines of $10,000.

It’s often those people who “complain about their freedom” that are causing us to have restrictions.  They can’t show any personal responsibility.

Those people who attended huge parties have now affected everyone else with their selfish actions.


----------



## Carolynleanne

wdwmom3 said:


> If people would just take things seriously and make good decisions they wouldn’t need rules and laws. For example if people weren’t organizing huge houses parties causing a huge increase in cases, the Ontario goverbemnt wouldn’t have needed to reduce the size of gathering and make fines of $10,000.
> 
> It’s often those people who “complain about their freedom” that are causing us to have restrictions.  They can’t show any personal responsibility.
> 
> Those people who attended huge parties have now affected everyone else with their selfish actions.



I disagree that those who complain about freedom are the ones causing most of the issues, but I also 100% support your choice to express your thoughts and concerns  I'll bow out of this specific conversation now.


----------



## ottawamom

Just wear a mask people and we'll all get through this! Think about your neighbours as much as you do about yourselves and wear a mask.


----------



## von Monster

wdwmom3 said:


> If people would just take things seriously and make good decisions they wouldn’t need rules and laws. For example if people weren’t organizing huge houses parties causing a huge increase in cases, the Ontario goverbemnt wouldn’t have needed to reduce the size of gathering and make fines of $10,000.
> 
> It’s often those people who “complain about their freedom” that are causing us to have restrictions.  They can’t show any personal responsibility.
> 
> Those people who attended huge parties have now affected everyone else with their selfish actions.



Maybe? FWIW it's been my personal experience that those that are most concerned about people not following the government's directions are usually the worst at actually doing it themselves ie "Those bad people doing are x and giving us all covid, but it's ok I went to my family function, trip/holiday, kids sports/hangouts, etc. it's really not a big deal. I know those people. It's different."

There seems to be very little understand and very much finger-pointing over the last 6 months or so (Dr. Jean Robert Ngola anyone????). I think we would all be better off if we took a little more introspection on our own activities and worried less about other people.


----------



## von Monster

Carolynleanne said:


> I disagree that those who complain about freedom are the ones causing most of the issues, but I also 100% support your choice to express your thoughts and concerns  I'll bow out of this specific conversation now.



"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -Benjamin Franklin

Relevant when you compare how the whole world is doing vs. the Swedish model; when this whole thing started people where up in arms over their light touch approach, but now looking back it appears they found the sustainable approach.


----------



## tinkerone

von Monster said:


> There seems to be very little understand and very much finger-pointing over the last 6 months or so (Dr. Jean Robert Ngola anyone????). I think we would all be better off if we took a little more introspection on our own activities and *worried less about other people.*


But there in lies the problem.  I can't go to the store _without _worrying about other people.  If you don't wear a mask I am in harms way.  If you do what is mandated, like it or not, then I would have less to worry about.  
Am I wrong?


----------



## tinkerone

von Monster said:


> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -Benjamin Franklin
> 
> Relevant when you compare how the whole world is doing vs. the Swedish model; when this whole thing started people where up in arms over their light touch approach, but now looking back it appears they found the sustainable approach.


I'm not sure what your reading but by all accounts that I have read the Swedish model did _not_ work.  I believe it was worse than the US in deaths per capita.  I'm going to see if I can find an news report from a reliable paper....

ETA- here's one.  https://www.bloomberg.com/news/storythreads/2020-05-21/sweden-shows-the-way-forward-from-coronavirus


----------



## von Monster

tinkerone said:


> But there in lies the problem.  I can't go to the store _without _worrying about other people.  If you don't wear a mask I am in harms way.  If you do what is mandated, like it or not, then I would have less to worry about.
> Am I wrong?



Yes - if you don't go to the store you have nothing to worry about. You are still focused on *my *activities rather than *your *own, see?

I wear a mask when I go out in public - it's sensible to do so. I think everyone should. I believe business owners have the right to mandate people who enter their place of business do so as well. Doesn't mean I think all of the government intervention has been necessary nor do I believe the government can tell me who can come into my own home.


----------



## von Monster

tinkerone said:


> I'm not sure what your reading but by all accounts that I have read the Swedish model did _not_ work.  I believe it was worse than the US in deaths per capita.  I'm going to see if I can find an news report from a reliable paper....
> 
> ETA- here's one.  https://www.bloomberg.com/news/storythreads/2020-05-21/sweden-shows-the-way-forward-from-coronavirus



And you've found an article *from May 21.* Which is exactly when I noted people where up in arms about their no-lockdown approach.

Here's one from yesterday from The Guardian no less - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...s-its-fewest-daily-covid-19-cases-since-march
And the Financial Times just because I figured I'd grab both a 'left' and 'right' wing publication - https://www.ft.com/content/9a1e118f-a4ef-43ab-a981-58b8bd35c0e1

The Swedish approach basically front loaded their mortality rates (which they hoped to avoid by isolating vulnerable populations; it didn't work) but it did create a 'sustainable' approach that can be maintained for an indefinite time frame.


----------



## tinkerone

von Monster said:


> Yes - if you don't go to the store you have nothing to worry about. You are still focused on *my *activities rather than *your *own, see?
> 
> I wear a mask when I go out in public - it's sensible to do so. I think everyone should. I believe business owners have the right to mandate people who enter their place of business do so as well. Doesn't mean I think all of the government intervention has been necessary nor do I believe the government can tell me who can come into my own home.


Ummm, lets try this again.  It's simple to say don't go to the store and I will have nothing to worry about.  Let's take the word 'store' out of it.  I have to go to work.  That is my activity, not yours.  I can't stay home.  So, if I get on the bus and someone is not wearing a face mask is that my issue?  I don't think so.  If I go into work and someone is not wearing a facemask, is that my issue?  I _*have*_ to focus on other people's activities....unless I don't go on the bus or to work.  Unfortunately that is not the way for most people.  See?


----------



## tinkerone

von Monster said:


> And you've found an article *from May 21.* Which is exactly when I noted people where up in arms about their no-lockdown approach.
> 
> Here's one from yesterday from The Guardian no less - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...s-its-fewest-daily-covid-19-cases-since-march
> And the Financial Times just because I figured I'd grab both a 'left' and 'right' wing publication - https://www.ft.com/content/9a1e118f-a4ef-43ab-a981-58b8bd35c0e1
> 
> The Swedish approach basically front loaded their mortality rates (which they hoped to avoid by isolating vulnerable populations; it didn't work) but it did create a 'sustainable' approach that can be maintained for an indefinite time frame.


Look again.....
Updated on August 12, 1:33 PM EDT


----------



## von Monster

tinkerone said:


> Look again.....
> Updated on August 12, 1:33 PM EDT



I did, it was last updated August 12. Did you read it? Because this quote:



> Epidemiologists warn that it may be too early to draw conclusions, and some, such as Johan Giesecke, an advisor to the World Health Organization and a former Swedish state epidemiologist, has argued that when the dust has settled most comparable countries will have more or less similar death rates per capita. Giesecke argued that while Sweden has borne the brunt of infections early on, the virus will continue to spread through populations that haven’t been exposed in the absence of an effective vaccine.



doesn't do your position any favors. Was their approach perfect? *ABSOLUTELY NOT*. Are we all likely to wind up with the same fatality rate in the end unless a vaccine appears first? Once again maybe?



tinkerone said:


> Ummm, lets try this again.  It's simple to say don't go to the store and I will have nothing to worry about.  Let's take the word 'store' out of it.  I have to go to work.  That is my activity, not yours.  I can't stay home.  So, if I get on the bus and someone is not wearing a face mask is that my issue?  I don't think so.  If I go into work and someone is not wearing a facemask, is that my issue?  I _*have*_ to focus on other people's activities....unless I don't go on the bus or to work.  Unfortunately that is not the way for most people.  See?



You neither have to go on the bus nor go to work. You want to do those things for your own reasons. If your workplace requires masks then they should be worn, same as any other PPE it requires. If the transit authority requires riders to wear masks then they should.

My point is still that you should primarily worry about your own behaviors and not others. I think it stands.


----------



## tinkerone

Anyone who would like to check out a by country chart of Coronavirus cases, here is one to check out.  Canada is doing very well compared to most countries, including Sweden.  I'm posting the chart from Sept 16 because that is what I had bookmarked.  
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/
P.S.-apparently no one needs to go to work unless you want to.


----------



## wdwmom3

von Monster said:


> I did, it was last updated August 12. Did you read it? Because this quote:
> 
> 
> 
> doesn't do your position any favors. Was their approach perfect? *ABSOLUTELY NOT*. Are we all likely to wind up with the same fatality rate in the end unless a vaccine appears first? Once again maybe?
> 
> 
> 
> You neither have to go on the bus nor go to work. You want to do those things for your own reasons. If your workplace requires masks then they should be worn, same as any other PPE it requires. If the transit authority requires riders to wear masks then they should.
> 
> My point is still that you should primarily worry about your own behaviors and not others. I think it stands.



nobody needs to go to work or ride the bus? Seriously?

I’m doing something wrong I guess.  I mean those greedy kids don’t need to eat right


----------



## damo

My biggest head scratcher through all of this non-mask wearing is that you wear a seatbelt to keep yourself and others safe, you wear a helmet and make your kids do so also when riding a motorcycle or bicycle, you even wear shoes and a shirt as mandated to go in a store but yet you won't wear a mask when so many professionals state that it may be the thing that keeps this illness from spreading.  Why not just err on the side of caution?  If it does help, then great.  If it doesn't, what does it hurt? You do so many things in your life to err on the side of caution because health professionals and common sense have indicated that there may be a benefit....balanced diet, exercise etc.  Why, in this situation, are you digging in your heals?  I just don't get it.  If it turns out down the road that it does no good, well then you can say that you told us so, but if it does help then you can also say that you did your part.  I'd rather be part of the cure than part of the cause.


----------



## wdwmom3

damo said:


> My biggest head scratcher through all of this non-mask wearing is that you wear a seatbelt to keep yourself and others safe, you wear a helmet and make your kids do so also when riding a motorcycle or bicycle, you even wear shoes and a shirt as mandated to go in a store but yet you won't wear a mask when so many professionals state that it may be the thing that keeps this illness from spreading.  Why not just err on the side of caution?  If it does help, then great.  If it doesn't, what does it hurt? You do so many things in your life to err on the side of caution because health professionals and common sense have indicated that there may be a benefit....balanced diet, exercise etc.  Why, in this situation, are you digging in your heals?  I just don't get it.  If it turns out down the road that it does no good, well then you can say that you told us so, but if it does help then you can also say that you did your part.  I'd rather be part of the cure than part of the cause.



well now see you are talking common sense. I’m learning a lot of people lack this . I don’t get it either.


----------



## isabellea

damo said:


> My biggest head scratcher through all of this non-mask wearing is that you wear a seatbelt to keep yourself and others safe, you wear a helmet and make your kids do so also when riding a motorcycle or bicycle, you even wear shoes and a shirt as mandated to go in a store but yet you won't wear a mask when so many professionals state that it may be the thing that keeps this illness from spreading.  Why not just err on the side of caution?  If it does help, then great.  If it doesn't, what does it hurt? You do so many things in your life to err on the side of caution because health professionals and common sense have indicated that there may be a benefit....balanced diet, exercise etc.  Why, in this situation, are you digging in your heals?  I just don't get it.  If it turns out down the road that it does no good, well then you can say that you told us so, but if it does help then you can also say that you did your part.  I'd rather be part of the cure than part of the cause.



Any other province than Quebec that has a provincial mask mandate? I have to say that while many complain, I haven't seen anyone in weeks not wearing a mask indoor. Yes some are below the nose but even those are a minority. Here the mandate is for kids 10 yo and older but again, rarely see younger kids (3 and over) not wearing one even though they are allowed not to. Also, no exemption fake badges since there are no exemption allowed to my knowledge. I've even seen masks given to patients on oxygen at the hospital where I work. Now we have to crackdown on big private parties.


----------



## wdwmom3

isabellea said:


> Any other province than Quebec that has a provincial mask mandate? I have to say that while many complain, I haven't seen anyone in weeks not wearing a mask indoor. Yes some are below the nose but even those are a minority. Here the mandate is for kids 10 yo and older but again, rarely see younger kids (3 and over) not wearing one even though they are allowed not to. Also, no exemption fake badges since there are no exemption allowed to my knowledge. I've even seen masks given to patients on oxygen at the hospital where I work. Now we have to crackdown on big private parties.



there is no provincial mandate in Ontario but many regions have implemented their own.  I keep seeing people with them under their nose.  My daughter works in retail and they have people at the door, and around the store that remind people they are required to wear a mask and wear it properly.  She’s had groups of women shopping that claim they all have asthma and can’t wear one . And she’s gotten attitude when she reminds people they need to cover their nose.


----------



## Donald - my hero

damo said:


> My biggest head scratcher through all of this non-mask wearing is that you wear a seatbelt to keep yourself and others safe, you wear a helmet and make your kids do so also when riding a motorcycle or bicycle, you even wear shoes and a shirt as mandated to go in a store but yet you won't wear a mask when so many professionals state that it may be the thing that keeps this illness from spreading.  Why not just err on the side of caution?  If it does help, then great.  If it doesn't, what does it hurt? You do so many things in your life to err on the side of caution because health professionals and common sense have indicated that there may be a benefit....balanced diet, exercise etc.  Why, in this situation, are you digging in your heals?  I just don't get it.  If it turns out down the road that it does no good, well then you can say that you told us so, but if it does help then you can also say that you did your part.  I'd rather be part of the cure than part of the cause.


**** WARNING, OMG I've been rather verbose and a tad opinionated in this post, just keep scrolling if you get bored ****
*I read an article what must have been months ago at this point (gawd time's moving on a different schedule now isn't it?!?!) that gave and interesting perspective into this mindset that resonated with me, I'll see if i can find a link to it later. The gist of the article was that while we NOW see all the things you mentioned as status quo and accepted, when they were all introduced they caused similar reactions and backlash.
Examples:
Why do i need to wear a seatbelt now? "My driving habits haven't changed and I've never worn one, my car doesn't even have them in the back seat" It took until we had our first child and he would pipe up to my dad "you have to make it click before we can drive Papa" that my dad would wear a seatbelt. Until that point he NEVER wore it unless he saw a cop and then he would loop it with his thumb, hold it across his chest and then immediately drop it once he'd passed.

Why do I need to wear a helmet now? My parents didn't make me wear one and I'm fine! It's just a money grab created by big companies and helicopter parents. My kid just needs to toughen up!

Why can't I drink and drive? I've never had an accident before because I don't drink "that much"

Why can't i eat a diet of crap? I've always eaten or drank "insert whatever form of crap they think is fine" and the government can't make me change, I don't need people telling me what to do.

Basically it boils down to "I've never had trouble before, it's other people that are the problem and you can't apply that to my behaviours" We're creatures of habit and change is hard! How many of you have either heard parents/grandparents (or depending on your age, yourself) declare "I'm never getting rid of my wall phone, I don't need or want a cell phone!"

THESE is my own thoughts now - we have become more & more segmented in our lives. We (i'm talking about Canadians now because i refuse to throw shade on others!) no longer live in combined family households, we rarely know anyone on our streets beyond the next door neighbours because most of us don't work where we live so once we come home, we stay home. Our lives have become (even before the lockdowns) more introverted, Netflix has replaced going out to movies because it's easier & cheaper, stores had already started suffering from an increase in online shopping, things like UBER Eats & Skip the Dishes already existed because you can order food and eat in your jammies while watching Netflix. We've slowly become more tied to our houses and smaller circles of immediate families & friends. Because of this we don't feel a connection to others that created the fostered the "village" community where everyone cares for everyone else.
I have an annoyingly strong justice based streak that forces me to see the inequities in our lives and because of that I will follow rules before they become rules! I do things that level the playing field, I live my life by the "golden rule" of treating others as i want to be treated (bites me in the butt too often when that doesn't happen and I get hurt) It sounds like you live by the same values of "i would rather do what might help that find out later I was part of the problem"  

None of this is an excuse for the behaviours that we are witnessing but rather a possible explanation that has allowed me to find a tiny bit of peace. Am I still pissed that others either don't wear masks or wear them correctly, and when others ignore the need to follow social distancing rules (and continue to have large gatherings!)?? OH HELL YES! But i've stopped trying to change anyone's habits other than my own. *


----------



## bcwife76

Official announcement came down this morning, Canada/US border closed until at least Oct 21 2020.


----------



## hdrolfe

Well. I finally called about my December Carnival cruise. The PIF date is the 22nd so I wanted to know my options. I was able to move the deposit to a new cruise with no fees or anything. So I have a back to back now booked for late April 2023. And if we can't travel by then I dont even want to think about that. 

I am glad they extended the closure another month but it is so strange that after all this time it is starting to feel normal, like this is life now. When it all started it was going to be so temporary and now, really isn't.


----------



## Sue M

Reepicheep said:


> Back in the early 1970s, *Weekend Magazine* had a weekly contest, where readers were encouraged to compose and submit limericks about a different city each week.  I still remember the winning entry about Vancouver:
> 
> *It rains too much in Vancouver.
> It rains too much in Vancouver.
> It rains in Vancouver.
> It rains in Vancouver.
> It rains too much in Vancouver.*
> 
> I've only stayed overnight in Vancouver once (in January 2018 when we flew there for my daughter's Disney interview) and it rained non-stop the entire 36 hours we were there.  But still preferable to Edmonton snow and ice, I must admit.


Yes,its true lol. Thats why it’s so green here. It’s raining today, washing some of the smoke from the air. But I think last time it rained was in July?  Most of the time it doesn’t rain much in warm months. 
I‘ll take it, better than shoveling and sub zero temps!  
My husband had an aunt who lived in Edmonton who always came here for Christmas time. She always exclaimed how green it is here even in winter.


----------



## Sue M

bcwife76 said:


> Official announcement came down this morning, Canada/US border closed until at least Oct 21 2020.


Not surprised. Waiting to hear about Nov. still haven’t canceled trip.  In my heart I feel it will continue but I’m not loosing anything by waiting.  And if I cancel then find out it opens ugh!  Never had to cancel a trip ever, now one canceled in Aug, and possibly next one too


----------



## Sue M

von Monster said:


> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -Benjamin Franklin
> 
> Relevant when you compare how the whole world is doing vs. the Swedish model; when this whole thing started people where up in arms over their light touch approach, but now looking back it appears they found the sustainable approach.


Copied from The Lancet:
Importantly, despite the low infection rate, the death rates in Sweden are considerably higher than those of its neighbouring countries and approximately 30 countries around the world that enforced lockdown rapidly and now are making use of testing, tracing, isolation, and masks to control the disease. The Swedish experiment has failed, but what is the cost? The death rate is much higher in countries (1) that delayed lockdown, (2) where posters calling for an approach like Sweden's arguably led to people in these countries (eg, Brazil and the USA) attempting to follow the Swedish approach to the pandemic, and (3) that were released from lockdown early by their government. It is indeed difficult to calculate, but the increased death toll from following advice from Giesecke and the Public Health Agency of Sweden is going to be substantial around the world. The attempt to reach herd immunity, and the public promotion of herd immunity to others, has cost many lives.


----------



## Madame

Sue M said:


> Copied from The Lancet:
> Importantly, despite the low infection rate, the death rates in Sweden are considerably higher than those of its neighbouring countries and approximately 30 countries around the world that enforced lockdown rapidly and now are making use of testing, tracing, isolation, and masks to control the disease. The Swedish experiment has failed, but what is the cost? The death rate is much higher in countries (1) that delayed lockdown, (2) where posters calling for an approach like Sweden's arguably led to people in these countries (eg, Brazil and the USA) attempting to follow the Swedish approach to the pandemic, and (3) that were released from lockdown early by their government. It is indeed difficult to calculate, but the increased death toll from following advice from Giesecke and the Public Health Agency of Sweden is going to be substantial around the world. The attempt to reach herd immunity, and the public promotion of herd immunity to others, has cost many lives.


Canadian Epidemiologist


----------



## ccudmore

If people don’t want a “Nanny State” they shouldn’t act like babies.


----------



## wdwmom3

ccudmore said:


> If people don’t want a “Nanny State” they shouldn’t act like babies.



Exactly!!!!!!


----------



## Sue M

Madame said:


> Canadian Epidemiologist
> View attachment 527035


From BBC:
More than 5,500 people have died with Covid-19 in this country of just 10 million. It is one of the highest death rates relative to population size in Europe, and by far the worst among the Nordic nations. Unlike Sweden, the rest all chose to lock down early in the pandemic.
"Maybe we should have taken some more care of each other," says Dan Eklund, 31, visiting the lake on his friend's boat.

Seems to be a lot of conflicting stats. The article goes on to say they are doing better now at lowering numbers  and have put restrictions in on distancing, numbers of gatherings, etc.


----------



## Madame

Sue M said:


> From BBC:
> More than 5,500 people have died with Covid-19 in this country of just 10 million. It is one of the highest death rates relative to population size in Europe, and by far the worst among the Nordic nations. Unlike Sweden, the rest all chose to lock down early in the pandemic.
> "Maybe we should have taken some more care of each other," says Dan Eklund, 31, visiting the lake on his friend's boat.
> 
> Seems to be a lot of conflicting stats. The article goes on to say they are doing better now at lowering numbers  and have put restrictions in on distancing, numbers of gatherings, etc.


Yes.  It gets thrown around as an example of why restrictions aren’t necessary, when in reality it is an abject lesson of the opposite.


----------



## Jrb1979

Sue M said:


> From BBC:
> More than 5,500 people have died with Covid-19 in this country of just 10 million. It is one of the highest death rates relative to population size in Europe, and by far the worst among the Nordic nations. Unlike Sweden, the rest all chose to lock down early in the pandemic.
> "Maybe we should have taken some more care of each other," says Dan Eklund, 31, visiting the lake on his friend's boat.
> 
> Seems to be a lot of conflicting stats. The article goes on to say they are doing better now at lowering numbers  and have put restrictions in on distancing, numbers of gatherings, etc.


A big one is no public gatherings of over 50 are allowed and visiting Grandma and Grandpa in long term care homes are banned. Its why I don't understand the love for how Sweden handled this.


----------



## Reepicheep

Thought I'd do another brief comparison between Canada and the US RE: COVID cases.  Unfortunately, it appears that the daily number of new cases in Canada has roughly tripled during the month of September.  I assume this is primarily due to schools and universities reopening (ASIDE: as of Monday, 81 Alberta schools have reported outbreaks).  I won't be surprised if parts of Canada introduce new safety protocols over the next few weeks.

Below is a comparison between the US and Canada using several criteria.  The statistics are for yesterday (Sept 22) and are seven day moving averages.  The number in RED gives an indication of how much worse the situation is in the US than in Canada, after taking into account the 8.8x difference in our populations.

*12x - daily deaths (735 vs. 7)
4x - daily new cases (41,105 vs. 1,123)
27x - total active cases (2,546,356 vs. 10,525)*

I think the statistics for Canada are fairly reliable, but that it is likely that the US is greatly underestimating the number of new cases.  Clearly,* the situation in the US is at least 10x worse than in Canada*, so realistically I can't see the border reopening until a vaccine is available.  I'm hoping we can all plan on returning to Disneyland and Disney World by next summer, but at this point I think the odds are against it.  

Not only do we need a vaccine, we need the majority of people to take it.  The latest statistics I have seen indicate that only half of Americans plan on taking a vaccine once it is available, and I'm not sure if Canada would agree to open the border under those circumstances.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Reepicheep said:


> Thought I'd do another brief comparison between Canada and the US RE: COVID cases.  Unfortunately, it appears that the daily number of new cases in Canada has roughly tripled during the month of September.  I assume this is primarily due to schools and universities reopening (ASIDE: as of Monday, 81 Alberta schools have reported outbreaks).  I won't be surprised if parts of Canada introduce new safety protocols over the next few weeks.



I thought the majority of the increases have to do with 20-40 somethings partying and not abiding by the group limits?  Yes, schools have been been affected, but not the major cause of the increases.


----------



## Reepicheep

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> I thought the majority of the increases have to do with 20-40 somethings partying and not abiding by the group limits?  Yes, schools have been been affected, but not the major cause of the increases.



Yes, I agree that partying by the young folk is certainly part of our problem.  To an extent, this would tie in with students returning to university.

I just did a google search to see if I could find a definitive reason for the increase in cases in Canada, but I didn't find anything.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Reepicheep said:


> Yes, I agree that partying by the young folk is certainly part of our problem.  To an extent, this would tie in with students returning to university.



The majority of university students are between the ages of 18-25 (typically), What about everyone else who isn't a student?  People need to stop being selfish. Period. *end of rant*


----------



## Kaadk

I've seen a lot of finger pointing at the younger crowd being 'reckless' and 'partying'.  Yes, there have been parties, but it's not just them who are speeding the rise in rates.  I can't find the article now (apple news is terrible at finding what you've already read), but last week I saw one that basically pointed the finger at CERB running out.  It basically said that due to CERB running out, more and more people were going back to work and that was resulting in more and more interactions, especially amoung the younger generations that are more likely to work in industries like retail, food service, etc... and don't have the luxeries of being able to work from home like many established professionals.

The parties are just the icing on the cake, but the numbers were going to go up regardless.


----------



## tinkerone

Interesting article from CBC news.  

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/cana...ere-s-what-we-found/ar-BB19kHCf?ocid=msedgntp


----------



## Reepicheep

A minute ago, CNN had a story about COVID in Canada, where the blame for the increase in new cases is placed squarely on the shoulders of "young people".  The reporter said that PM Trudeau is going to make a nationwide address tonight, where he is going to encourage all Canadians, but especially the young, to be more careful.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

I find it ironic that shortness of breath is a continuous factor in all major cases, yet when I tried to get tested three times in five days with this symptom back at the beginning of April, I was told over the phone I was negative and didn't need a test.  I'm still ticked off about that.


----------



## Sue M

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> I find it ironic that shortness of breath is a continuous factor in all major cases, yet when I tried to get tested three times in five days with this symptom back at the beginning of April, I was told over the phone I was negative and didn't need a test.  I'm still ticked off about that.


Are you in NS?  Here (BC) we have drive thru testing, you don’t have to go thru the 811 number.  It sucks but maybe you have to lie about a symptom to get a test. I’m surprised shortness of breath isn’t enough to get a test.


----------



## FigmentSpark

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> I find it ironic that shortness of breath is a continuous factor in all major cases, yet when I tried to get tested three times in five days with this symptom back at the beginning of April, I was told over the phone I was negative and didn't need a test.  I'm still ticked off about that.


I had the same problem back in April.  No test.  The paramedics even told me the hospital wouldn't test me.  Luckily for me, that was my only "symptom" and it eventually (3 months) went away, not got worse.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

FigmentSpark said:


> I had the same problem back in April.  No test.  The paramedics even told me the hospital wouldn't test me.  Luckily for me, that was my only "symptom" and it eventually (3 months) went away, not got worse.



I also had the major fatigue and headaches. Mine lasted around four weeks. It was horrible. I almost called an ambulance just so I could get checked out by someone so I knew I was okay!


----------



## Jrb1979

After what is going on here in Ontario and how Florida is acting to this by dropping all restrictions I can't see the border opening for a long while. Our cases have hit 400 and are closing bars and restaurants by 11. Florida has 5 times the cases and letting all businesses run at 100%


----------



## Griffin11

Jrb1979 said:


> After what is going on here in Ontario and how Florida is acting to this by dropping all restrictions I can't see the border opening for a long while. Our cases have hit 400 and are closing bars and restaurants by 11. Florida has 5 times the cases and letting all businesses run at 100%


Agreed.  I finally cancelled our January trip (booked in early March 2020, ha!) today.  I had been meaning to for a while, but reading that Florida is removing both restrictions on restaurants and penalties for not wearing masks was the prompt to finally press the "cancel" button.


----------



## bcwife76

Anyone remember that Friends episode where Ross and Rachel break up and the other four are in the bedroom overhearing the whole thing?
Chandler says at one point "wax the door shut, we're never leaving ever." That's what I think of now that Florida has opened EVERYTHING. Ugh. Gross.


----------



## TammyLynn33

I don’t know how I feel about anything anymore. Our numbers are climbing  but we have 9 cases. We are still Careful my littles aren’t in school but go to soccer and littlest resumes hockey next week . 
I just wonder if this is our new normal, and if we have to live with it, in no way have I given up yet but I’m def getting tired of it all.
My ex crossed the border last Thursday to quarantine to see the boys . I’m really irritated that border services didn’t check with me he had a visit scheduled , or that if they looked at his papers and a calendar they would have seen it’s not his weekend. I never agreed , but now he’s here he’s just going to bully me because he spent 2k to quarantine. I wish the border was taking this more seriously.  ( my littlest wasn’t willing to go with him in March it’s now 6 months later it’s not going to happen again I’m sure ) 
As for reopening I guess it will increase their community spread , I just look at it as restaurants are open here at 50% doesn’t mean I’ve gone . So if they open 100% here, same thing.. we just need to be careful no matter what is open in my opinion. 
That said I read an article and I didn’t check the sources but I want to saying Flas pneumonia deaths are through the roof right now compared to normal because they aren’t listing things as covid??? I would really like a vacation soon , not being able to get away is starting to impact the family ..we’ve been used to going somewhere 3X a year last year sigh. first world problems I know ..I just want something to look forward to , I guess.


----------



## ellbell

I think they should open the border and let people choose for themselves at this point.  Require them to wear masks and use the hand sanitizer at the entrance of every establishment and move on.  The rest is just show anyway.  Life is too short and I'm tired of wasting what little time on earth I have sitting around and waiting for things to happen.  Since covid started my mom was diagnosed with cancer and died from cancer. The chances of catching covid are about the same as being diagnosed with cancer tomorrow.  I'm tired of other people determining how I'm living everyday. That's why I'm still flying to Florida next week.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

@ellbell Sorry to hear about your mother.

Are you staying at a resort, hotel, gated community/house? Enjoy your time, sounds like it is much needed.


----------



## ellbell

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> @ellbell Sorry to hear about your mother.
> 
> Are you staying at a resort, hotel, gated community/house? Enjoy your time, sounds like it is much needed.


Thank you, I'll be staying at POP.


----------



## vegs1

TammyLynn33 said:


> I don’t know how I feel about anything anymore. Our numbers are climbing  but we have 9 cases. We are still Careful my littles aren’t in school but go to soccer and littlest resumes hockey next week .
> I just wonder if this is our new normal, and if we have to live with it, in no way have I given up yet but I’m def getting tired of it all.
> My ex crossed the border last Thursday to quarantine to see the boys . I’m really irritated that border services didn’t check with me he had a visit scheduled , or that if they looked at his papers and a calendar they would have seen it’s not his weekend. I never agreed , but now he’s here he’s just going to bully me because he spent 2k to quarantine. I wish the border was taking this more seriously.  ( my littlest wasn’t willing to go with him in March it’s now 6 months later it’s not going to happen again I’m sure )
> As for reopening I guess it will increase their community spread , I just look at it as restaurants are open here at 50% doesn’t mean I’ve gone . So if they open 100% here, same thing.. we just need to be careful no matter what is open in my opinion.
> That said I read an article and I didn’t check the sources but I want to saying Flas pneumonia deaths are through the roof right now compared to normal because they aren’t listing things as covid??? I would really like a vacation soon , not being able to get away is starting to impact the family ..we’ve been used to going somewhere 3X a year last year sigh. first world problems I know ..I just want something to look forward to , I guess.



is your ex husband a Canadian citizen?  If so, they have to let him in. 

Why not take a weekend getaway here in Canada?  Not sure where you live but you could rent a cottage or go to a small hotel somewhere.  How about camping?  We are renting a yurt in October for a weekend. It has heat!!!!


----------



## Jrb1979

ellbell said:


> I think they should open the border and let people choose for themselves at this point.  Require them to wear masks and use the hand sanitizer at the entrance of every establishment and move on.  The rest is just show anyway.  Life is too short and I'm tired of wasting what little time on earth I have sitting around and waiting for things to happen.  Since covid started my mom was diagnosed with cancer and died from cancer. The chances of catching covid are about the same as being diagnosed with cancer tomorrow.  I'm tired of other people determining how I'm living everyday. That's why I'm still flying to Florida next week.


I am sorry to hear about your mother. Its a tough time for many right now.

About the border, the only way I am ok with opening it is if they can get a better system to track people that cross the way restaurants are doing it and keep the 14 day quarantine in place.


----------



## vegs1

I’m for keeping it closed. Our numbers are going up. If they open it up and we start getting huge numbers of cross border travel, things will only get worse and then things close back down.  

I’d love to travel right now but we have elderly family members and neighbours with cancer. I don’t want to risk their lives by my choices. That’s my choice. I also don’t have 14 days after my vacay to quarantine  so won’t be going anywhere other than camping!


----------



## Sue M

Jrb1979 said:


> After what is going on here in Ontario and how Florida is acting to this by dropping all restrictions I can't see the border opening for a long while. Our cases have hit 400 and are closing bars and restaurants by 11. Florida has 5 times the cases and letting all businesses run at 100%


I was horrified when I heard what Florida is doing.  Seems they are choosing economy over lives.  They’re heading back to 1st place in virus #s. Sad many people will loose their lives or live with the after affects of Covid. 
The easing of restrictions like masks and social distancing is alarming.


----------



## wdwmom3

Sue M said:


> I was horrified when I heard what Florida is doing.  Seems they are choosing economy over lives.  They’re heading back to 1st place in virus #s. Sad many people will loose their lives or live with the after affects of Covid.
> The easing of restrictions like masks and social distancing is alarming.



They really are choosing money over lives.  It’s sad.


----------



## Frozen2014

Sue M said:


> I was horrified when I heard what Florida is doing.  Seems they are choosing economy over lives.  They’re heading back to 1st place in virus #s. Sad many people will loose their lives or live with the after affects of Covid.
> The easing of restrictions like masks and social distancing is alarming.


Ditto. Good to hear they feel they are ready to move to Phase 3, but no restrictions?  That's just plain stupid.  Their numbers are going to sky rocket again.


----------



## TammyLynn33

No he is not , hence why I’m angry a visit was never confirmed by someone at the border . 
I have rented a cottage and we did one night at a hotel , big when you are paying monthly dvc dues and whatnot , it’s expensive and frusturating to say the least . 




vegs1 said:


> is your ex husband a Canadian citizen?  If so, they have to let him in.
> 
> Why not take a weekend getaway here in Canada?  Not sure where you live but you could rent a cottage or go to a small hotel somewhere.  How about camping?  We are renting a yurt in October for a weekend. It has heat!!!!


----------



## MoreTravels

Frozen2014 said:


> Ditto. Good to hear they feel they are ready to move to Phase 3, but no restrictions?  That's just plain stupid.  Their numbers are going to sky rocket again.



They are just taking a gamble hoping a booming economy will save Trump's re-election. I heard on the radio that Florida is the most important state for any candidate to win. If Trump loses Florida, he has no chance of getting re-elected. So I guess it's unfortunately based on political decision. This is the final round of the poker game. They are going "all in". It's either they will win big (ie, economy returns to normal and everyone is happy to work and spend again) or they will lose big (ie, a lot more Floridian dying from COVID that there is not enough hospital bed). Since the election is Nov 3, one month from now... they are taking a gamble. It's sad because it's the regular peasants that will be affected the most, not the elites.


----------



## FigmentSpark

MoreTravels said:


> They are just taking a gamble hoping a booming economy will save Trump's re-election. I heard on the radio that Florida is the most important state for any candidate to win. If Trump loses Florida, he has no chance of getting re-elected. So I guess it's unfortunately based on political decision. This is the final round of the poker game. They are going "all in". It's either they will win big (ie, economy returns to normal and everyone is happy to work and spend again) or they will lose big (ie, a lot more Floridian dying from COVID that there is not enough hospital bed). Since the election is Nov 3, one month from now... they are taking a gamble. It's sad because it's the regular peasants that will be affected the most, not the elites.


But how are things going to return to "normal" when tourism can not be anywhere near normal?  Are people from other countries even flying in to the U.S?


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

https://news.paxeditions.com/news/airline/westjets-ups-covid-coverage-limit-adds-us-offering
*WestJet *guests travelling to, through or from the *United States* are now eligible for the airline's enhanced $200,000 CAD COVID-19 travel insurance coverage for air-only and vacation reservations.

The enhanced coverage will retroactively include all bookings made as of September 18th, 2020 and will increase by $100,000 CAD to include up to a maximum of* $200,000 CAD* at no additional charge to eligible guests.


----------



## Jrb1979

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> https://news.paxeditions.com/news/airline/westjets-ups-covid-coverage-limit-adds-us-offering
> *WestJet *guests travelling to, through or from the *United States* are now eligible for the airline's enhanced $200,000 CAD COVID-19 travel insurance coverage for air-only and vacation reservations.
> 
> The enhanced coverage will retroactively include all bookings made as of September 18th, 2020 and will increase by $100,000 CAD to include up to a maximum of* $200,000 CAD* at no additional charge to eligible guests.


That's still not a lot of money to cover it and for me I still wouldn't be traveling to the US any time soon. After seeing Florida drop all restrictions they couldn't pay me to go there. There is lots of places in Canada to vacation.


----------



## ilovetotravel1977

Yup I agree.   I'm just posting the link to the article from a travel website for agents I follow.


----------



## Jim Libasci

MoreTravels said:


> They are just taking a gamble hoping a booming economy will save Trump's re-election. I heard on the radio that Florida is the most important state for any candidate to win. If Trump loses Florida, he has no chance of getting re-elected. So I guess it's unfortunately based on political decision. This is the final round of the poker game. They are going "all in". It's either they will win big (ie, economy returns to normal and everyone is happy to work and spend again) or they will lose big (ie, a lot more Floridian dying from COVID that there is not enough hospital bed). Since the election is Nov 3, one month from now... they are taking a gamble. It's sad because it's the regular peasants that will be affected the most, not the elites.


This exactly, I have family in Florida and I've already lost 1 family this month.


----------



## ottawamom

ilovetotravel1977 said:


> https://news.paxeditions.com/news/airline/westjets-ups-covid-coverage-limit-adds-us-offering
> *WestJet *guests travelling to, through or from the *United States* are now eligible for the airline's enhanced $200,000 CAD COVID-19 travel insurance coverage for air-only and vacation reservations.
> 
> The enhanced coverage will retroactively include all bookings made as of September 18th, 2020 and will increase by $100,000 CAD to include up to a maximum of* $200,000 CAD* at no additional charge to eligible guests.



I'm not sure any amount of travel insurance could convince me to travel to an area where there is a chance I could come home with Covid-19. I've seen too many shows recently where they have been discussing all the long-hauler issues and I don't want to get anywhere near that. There is just too much unknown, still, about this disease to take the chance.

To those who are younger than I am, you have a lot longer to live with the potential side effects of Covid -19 than I do. Staying home safe and sound is the only way to ensure a healthy happy life/retirement.


----------



## ellbell

Today in Ontario alone there was a reported 700 new cases.  The majority of these cases are home grown.  The number of cases from travel to the states is relatively low.  The only reason why I agree with the land border closure is because there is no contact tracing.  I don't even think that the 14 day quarantine is necessary for air travel anymore as long as there is proper contact tracing in place such as being required to download the government app.


----------



## MoreTravels

Due to human rights and privacy issues, contact tracing is not possible. In some countries, visitors are required to install a location-enables app, with daily screening questions to answer. If you turn off your phone or leave it away from you, they will issue stiff penalty. They even have people call and ask, can you look out your window and tell me the colour of the cars parked across the street, to make sure you are really quarantined at home. 

It would not be possible to do those here. We cannot even force anyone to install our current COVID app, which is both anonymous and non-GPS based. So how are we going to ask people to register real name with locations to make sure people are home?


----------



## ellbell

MoreTravels said:


> Due to human rights and privacy issues, contact tracing is not possible. In some countries, visitors are required to install a location-enables app, with daily screening questions to answer. If you turn off your phone or leave it away from you, they will issue stiff penalty. They even have people call and ask, can you look out your window and tell me the colour of the cars parked across the street, to make sure you are really quarantined at home.
> 
> It would not be possible to do those here. We cannot even force anyone to install our current COVID app, which is both anonymous and non-GPS based. So how are we going to ask people to register real name with locations to make sure people are home?


Well they like to treat people like prisoners here and if you leave the country they impose fines if you leave your house withon 14 days.  Last I checked only North Korea told people they couldn't leave the country and now if we do we have a 14 day mandatory house arrest.  Human rights are being violated daily already.


----------



## bcwife76

ellbell said:


> Well they like to treat people like prisoners here and if you leave the country they impose fines if you leave your house withon 14 days.  Last I checked only North Korea told people they couldn't leave the country and now if we do we have a 14 day mandatory house arrest.  Human rights are being violated daily already.


And it's been extended til Oct 31 today.


----------



## star72232

ellbell said:


> Well they like to treat people like prisoners here and if you leave the country they impose fines if you leave your house withon 14 days.  Last I checked only North Korea told people they couldn't leave the country and now if we do we have a 14 day mandatory house arrest.  Human rights are being violated daily already.



But you can leave the country.  You can't drive across the border, but you are welcome to fly to any country that allows it (not all do, but that's their government).  As for 14 day quarantine - lots of countries are requiring it.  The UK, Ireland, etc require a quarantine for all (or almost all) travellers entering the country.  Australia has completely closed its borders to non-citizens and all citizens who have travelled are required to quarantine for 14 days.  I'm not sure why you think this is a Canada/North Korea issue only?


----------



## tlcdoula

star72232 said:


> But you can leave the country.  You can't drive across the border, but you are welcome to fly to any country that allows it (not all do, but that's their government).  As for 14 day quarantine - lots of countries are requiring it.  The UK, Ireland, etc require a quarantine for all (or almost all) travellers entering the country.  Australia has completely closed its borders to non-citizens and all citizens who have travelled are required to quarantine for 14 days.  I'm not sure why you think this is a Canada/North Korea issue only?


I honestly do not have an issue with the 14 day quarantine.   When we came back from Mexico in mid March we had to self isolate for 14 days.  That is just part of travelling.  I personally can't afford to take 14 days off after a trip so we won't be going anywhere until I have enough time off saved up and it is safe to travel or the quarantine has been lessened.  I would feel horrible if I had of had covid and was infecting others in my work, family community etc.  

Sure this sucks that we are having to reduce our contacts, not see family or friends over holidays and special events etc but really if we all do it now then we will be able to spend time with them sooner and hopefully travel again sooner than later.


----------



## MoreTravels

bcwife76 said:


> And it's been extended til Oct 31 today.



https://www.680news.com/2020/09/28/...sential-travel-no-longer-sustainable-experts/
I want to tell this guy to move to USA himself if he thinks it’s that important to open it.


----------



## ellbell

star72232 said:


> But you can leave the country.  You can't drive across the border, but you are welcome to fly to any country that allows it (not all do, but that's their government).  As for 14 day quarantine - lots of countries are requiring it.  The UK, Ireland, etc require a quarantine for all (or almost all) travellers entering the country.  Australia has completely closed its borders to non-citizens and all citizens who have travelled are required to quarantine for 14 days.  I'm not sure why you think this is a Canada/North Korea issue only?


I was comparing it because as punishment for leaving the country we get 14 days of house arrest.  Sure we are still allowed to leave but for how long?  What makes you think at this point that we wouldn't end up being told we aren't allowed to leave at all.  We were already told we weren't allowed to see our family and friends for months.  Things are now going backwards again so who's to say more human rights won't be taken.

I'd rather they take away the right to privacy by forcing people to install the app which would be as simple as including it in a software update.


----------



## tinkerone

ellbell said:


> I was comparing it because as punishment for leaving the country we get 14 days of house arrest.  Sure we are still allowed to leave but for how long?  What makes you think at this point that we wouldn't end up being told we aren't allowed to leave at all.  We were already told we weren't allowed to see our family and friends for months.  Things are now going backwards again so who's to say more human rights won't be taken.
> 
> I'd rather they take away the right to privacy by forcing people to install the app which would be as simple as including it in a software update.





ellbell said:


> Well they like to treat people like prisoners here and if you leave the country they impose fines if you leave your house withon 14 days.  Last I checked only North Korea told people they couldn't leave the country and now if we do we have a 14 day mandatory house arrest.  Human rights are being violated daily already.


You would be mistaken.  Here is a map of countries and what they allow.  https://www.kayak.com/travel-restrictions

I'm really tired of hearing that our human rights are being violated.  There is an alternative and that would be to move to where a person feels their human rights aren't being violated, let us all know where this is.  I don't personally feel my human rights are being violated.  Now, take away my free speech, my food supply, my water supply, I would feel I have lost a human right.  Not being able to drive across a boarder.....hardly.

I also do not feel that we are being treated as prisoners, that is totally ridiculous.  Canada is a really big place and there are tons of areas to visit.  If someone chooses to travel to another country by plane, nothing is stopping them.  Yes, you have to do a 14 day quarantine (not house arrest) but that is for* my *safety as* I *did not choose to take a chance, the other person did.  It's very easy, don't want to do the quarantine don't leave the country.  
If we would all just get over the crap of feeling hard done by and follow the set rules this would get over a heck of a lot faster.


----------



## ellbell

tinkerone said:


> You would be mistaken.  Here is a map of countries and what they allow.  https://www.kayak.com/travel-restrictions
> 
> I'm really tired of hearing that our human rights are being violated.  There is an alternative and that would be to move to where a person feels their human rights aren't being violated, let us all know where this is.  I don't personally feel my human rights are being violated.  Now, take away my free speech, my food supply, my water supply, I would feel I have lost a human right.  Not being able to drive across a boarder.....hardly.
> 
> I also do not feel that we are being treated as prisoners, that is totally ridiculous.  Canada is a really big place and there are tons of areas to visit.  If someone chooses to travel to another country by plane, nothing is stopping them.  Yes, you have to do a 14 day quarantine (not house arrest) but that is for* my *safety as* I *did not choose to take a chance, the other person did.  It's very easy, don't want to do the quarantine don't leave the country.
> If we would all just get over the crap of feeling hard done by and follow the set rules this would get over a heck of a lot faster.


I'm not just talkinh about the 14 day quarantine.  From March to the end of June we were not allowed to go see family or friends or even leave the house unless it was essential.  I didn't get to spend my mom's last birthday or Mother's day with her because of these rules.  They said babysitters and housecleaners were allowed in our homes before our own families.  That is oppressive.  That is taking away our rights.  And do believe it's about to happen again.


----------



## tinkerone

ellbell said:


> I'm not just talkinh about the 14 day quarantine.  From March to the end of June we were not allowed to go see family or friends or even leave the house unless it was essential.  I didn't get to spend my mom's last birthday or Mother's day with her because of these rules.  They said babysitters and housecleaners were allowed in our homes before our own families.  That is oppressive.  That is taking away our rights.  And do believe it's about to happen again.


If you think_ THAT_ is taking away your rights then you have a lot of first world problems.  We *all* gave up things so we could *all* be safe.  If/when it happens again it will be because so many could not follow simple rules and it will be to keep everyone safe, especially people like your mother who might be in a higher risk group. 
And this is not happening just Canada!

ETA-maybe look up oppression in say Hong Kong.  Now that is oppression.


----------



## ellbell

tinkerone said:


> If you think_ THAT_ is taking away your rights then you have a lot of first world problems.  We *all* gave up things so we could *all* be safe.  If/when it happens again it will be because so many could not follow simple rules and it will be to keep everyone safe, especially people like your mother who might be in a higher risk group.
> And this is not happening just Canada!
> 
> ETA-maybe look up oppression in say Hong Kong.  Now that is oppression.


My mother is dead thanks she died alone of cancer 2 weeks ago because of these rules


----------



## Disney Addicted

You have a right to this belief but I don't understand it.  I just don't.  The only reason Covid does not seem like much of a threat here in Canada is because Canada shut down so quickly in March after seeing what was happening in Europe (Italy in particular at that time).  THAT is what has resulted in Canada having less than 10,000 deaths over 6 months rather than 30,000+ deaths (ie, Italy) in a matter of a couple of months.

Italy, back in April (7th to be precise), had a 12.5% death rate of those who caught Covid-19.  Meanwhile in, Canada only 2.13% of Covid positive were dying.  That's a huge difference!  France was 9%; Spain 9.8%; US was only 2.95% then; UK was 10.3%.

But the States still has hundreds dying daily.  Europe's numbers are rising as well.  Canada's numbers are going up again but nothing like the U.S. and Europe.  We are still in single digits with only 2 double digit deaths this month of September.  I truly believe that was because of lockdown.  After lockdown restrictions were lifted, the numbers started to rise.  I expected that though.  This is not going away anytime soon.  The last pandemic lasted 2-3 years.  I expect we will go into lockdown restrictions again, but what else can be done?  The only other option is to just let the virus sweep through unchecked at a rapid rate and let thousands more die that would with restrictions in place.  That is not a good option.

Personally, I'm happy staying in Canada.  I'm not going to any country while this is out of control.

I'm sorry for your loss.  It's hard to lose a family member...  You are not the only person affected though.  Many other people have lost family members.  My grandfather died as well.  I attended his funeral on August 21st.


----------



## tinkerone

ellbell said:


> My mother is dead thanks she died alone of cancer 2 weeks ago because of these rules


I'm very sorry for your loss.  While cancer is a nasty disease I'm glad that Covid was not tacked on to it.  That could have easily happened and could have ended her life sooner if some of those rules that were put in place had not been.  
Again, _very very_ sorry for your loss.  I still don't see an oppression though which is what my point has been.


----------



## ellbell

Disney Addicted said:


> You have a right to this belief but I don't understand it.  I just don't.  The only reason Covid does not seem like much of a threat here in Canada is because Canada shut down so quickly in March after seeing what was happening in Europe (Italy in particular at that time).  THAT is what has resulted in Canada having less than 10,000 deaths over 6 months rather than 30,000+ deaths (ie, Italy) in a matter of a couple of months.
> 
> Italy, back in April (7th to be precise), had a 12.5% death rate of those who caught Covid-19.  Meanwhile in, Canada only 2.13% of Covid positive were dying.  That's a huge difference!  France was 9%; Spain 9.8%; US was only 2.95% then; UK was 10.3%.
> 
> But the States still has hundreds dying daily.  Europe's numbers are rising as well.  Canada's numbers are going up again but nothing like the U.S. and Europe.  We are still in single digits with only 2 double digit deaths daily.  I truly believe that was because of lockdown.  After lockdown restrictions were lifted, the numbers started to rise.  I expected that though.  This is not going away anytime soon.  The last pandemic lasted 2-3 years.  I expect we will go into lockdown restrictions again, but what else can be done?  The only other option is to just let the virus sweep through unchecked at a rapid rate and let thousands more die that would with restrictions in place.  That is not a good option.


I believe that if everyone wore masks properly, washed our hands and had the contact tracing app that quarantining healthy people for no reason wouldn't be necessary.  I believe that shutting down businesses and handing out free money to people is ruining our economy needlessly.  I don't think that most of the rules being imposed on us are necessary if the ones that are useful are enforced properly.


----------



## ellbell

tinkerone said:


> I'm very sorry for your loss.  While cancer is a nasty disease I'm glad that Covid was not tacked on to it.  That could have easily happened and could have ended her life sooner if some of those rules that were put in place had not been.
> Again, _very very_ sorry for your loss.  I still don't see an oppression though which is what my point has been.


She was diagnosed in June and was extremely sick and hospitalized for the entire time.  If she had covid it probably would have ended her pain sooner.  All covid did for us was made her die alone because we weren't able to spend her last couple months with her


----------



## Disney Addicted

ellbell said:


> I believe that if everyone wore masks properly, washed our hands and had the contact tracing app that quarantining healthy people for no reason wouldn't be necessary.  I believe that shutting down businesses and handing out free money to people is ruining our economy needlessly.  I don't think that most of the rules being imposed on us are necessary if the ones that are useful are enforced properly.



I agree wearing masks and hand washing will help.  I'm torn over shutting businesses down again.  I think many could safely stay open now.  

Unfortunately with symptoms not showing for almost 2 weeks quarantine practice makes sense as much as it sucks.



ellbell said:


> She was diagnosed in June and was extremely sick and hospitalized for the entire time.  If she had covid it probably would have ended her pain sooner.  All covid did for us was made her die alone because we weren't able to spend her last couple months with her


I really disliked how everyone was banned from hospitals and care homes.  I understand the reasoning but I wish another solution would have been available.  Too many people confused and alone.  If a family member was willing to only go from home to the hospital or care home and nowhere else, why not let them.  Fortunately the Ottawa hospital allowed making a reservation to visit.  1 person only (my uncle),was allowed to suit up in protective gear and visit my grandpa for a few minutes every other day or so.  I wish you could have been allowed the same.


----------



## ellbell

Disney Addicted said:


> I agree wearing masks and hand washing will help.  I'm torn over shutting businesses down again.  I think many could safely stay open now.
> 
> Unfortunately with symptoms not showing for almost 2 weeks quarantine practice makes sense as much as it sucks.
> 
> 
> I really disliked how everyone was banned from hospitals and care homes.  I understand the reasoning but I wish another solution would have been available.  Too many people confused and alone.  If a family member was willing to only go from home to the hospital or care home and nowhere else, why not let them.  Fortunately the Ottawa hospital allowed making a reservation to visit.  1 person only (my uncle),was allowed to suit up in protective gear and visit my grandpa for a few minutes every other day or so.  I wish you could have been allowed the same.


If everyone was wearing masks quarantine wouldn't be necessary because transmission from even an infected person would be extremely low.  The problem is all you have to do to avoid wearing one is say you have a medical condition.  No proof or anything.  Also it isn't a requirement everywhere.


----------



## quandrea

ellbell said:


> I'm not just talkinh about the 14 day quarantine.  From March to the end of June we were not allowed to go see family or friends or even leave the house unless it was essential.  I didn't get to spend my mom's last birthday or Mother's day with her because of these rules.  They said babysitters and housecleaners were allowed in our homes before our own families.  That is oppressive.  That is taking away our rights.  And do believe it's about to happen again.


Nm


----------



## vegs1

ellbell said:


> Well they like to treat people like prisoners here and if you leave the country they impose fines if you leave your house withon 14 days.  Last I checked only North Korea told people they couldn't leave the country and now if we do we have a 14 day mandatory house arrest.  Human rights are being violated daily already.


Do you wear a seat belt in your car?  We are told to do that and we do. Do you work according to your employer’s rules?  That’s part of your employment. That’s no different than being asked to quarantine for 14 days for the good of other people. This is for a short period of time for the greater good of all people including other people who have illnesses that need protecting from this virus. 

I am truly sorry your Mom passed. My own Mom died recently also so I feel your pain.  I am curious as to why she was not allowed someone with her when she passed. Was she not allowed visitors?  My friend’s mom died three weeks ago and the hospital allowed them in which surprised them. The nurse said most everywhere is allowing visitors but usually only one who has been screened. I’m sorry you were not.


----------



## ellbell

vegs1 said:


> Do you wear a seat belt in your car?  We are told to do that and we do. Do you work according to your employer’s rules?  That’s part of your employment. That’s no different than being asked to quarantine for 14 days for the good of other people. This is for a short period of time for the greater good of all people including other people who have illnesses that need protecting from this virus.
> 
> I am truly sorry your Mom passed. My own Mom died recently also so I feel your pain.  I am curious as to why she was not allowed someone with her when she passed. Was she not allowed visitors?  My friend’s mom died three weeks ago and the hospital allowed them in which surprised them. The nurse said most everywhere is allowing visitors but usually only one who has been screened. I’m sorry you were not.


I never said I don't follow them.  I said I don't believe they are useful.


----------



## vegs1

ellbell said:


> I never said I don't follow them.  I said I don't believe they are useful.



Obviously your choice to feel how you feel. 

I looked up about the visitations also only because I recalled seeing that somewhere.  They were allowed from June 16th onwards. You should have been allowed your visits with your Mom. Such a shame.  


https://ottawacitizen.com/news/loca...are-workers-still-waiting-on-pandemic-premium


----------



## ellbell

vegs1 said:


> Obviously your choice to feel how you feel.
> 
> I looked up about the visitations also only because I recalled seeing that somewhere.  They were allowed from June 16th onwards. You should have been allowed your visits with your Mom. Such a shame.
> 
> 
> https://ottawacitizen.com/news/loca...are-workers-still-waiting-on-pandemic-premium


Recommendations are not the same as telling hospitals and hospices to change their rules.  They all make their own rules based on the suggestions.  Nobody is allowed to see my 94 year old grandmother either so she sits in her room by herself unable to even see the people on her residence because she has to leave 3 times a week for dialysis.  She's more likely to die from depression at this point than covid because nobody wants to enforce masks.

But to get back on topic.  I believe the borders should be open again.  Florida was able to drastically reduce their numbers just by imposing fines to people not wearing masks and limiting the amount of people in spaces.  If we did the same we could have avoided the second wave.


----------



## wdwmom3

ellbell said:


> My mother is dead thanks she died alone of cancer 2 weeks ago because of these rules



I’m sorry you mother died. And this is going to sound very harsh. But your pain and grief does not give you a pass and make it ok for you to behave in a way that puts other people in danger. 
And yes removing the quarantine will put people in danger


----------



## ellbell

wdwmom3 said:


> I’m sorry you mother died. And this is going to sound very harsh. But your pain and grief does not give you a pass and make it ok for you to behave in a way that puts other people in danger.
> And yes removing the quarantine will put people in danger


Way to assume that my pain amd grief are what make me believe that. Again Florida was able to allow visitors without quarantine and drastically reduce their numbers by enforcing masks and social distancing.


----------



## wdwmom3

ellbell said:


> Way to assume that my pain amd grief are what make me believe that. Again Florida was able to allow visitors without quarantine and drastically reduce their numbers by enforcing masks and social distancing.



So how would you feel if your mother had died because someone travelled and didn’t quarantine for 14 days.  And then brought this virus into what ever place she lived?  I’m sure you would think differently.  You want people to respect that fact your mother has died.  Please respect that people are still losing their life to covid.  And it’s not right for you to want to gamble with their lives.


----------



## ellbell

wdwmom3 said:


> So how would you feel if your mother had died because someone travelled and didn’t quarantine for 14 days.  And then brought this virus into what ever place she lived?  I’m sure you would think differently.  You want people to respect that fact your mother has died.  Please respect that people are still losing their life to covid.  And it’s not right for you to want to gamble with their lives.


People gamble with their lives everyday by leaving the house.

Again to try to get this back on track my OPINION is that the border should be open now without a required quarantine and will be open by Christmas


----------



## wdwmom3

ellbell said:


> People gamble with their lives everyday by leaving the house.
> 
> Again to try to get this back on track my OPINION is that the border should be open now without a required quarantine and will be open by Christmas



Allowing the border to open and have no quarantine is gambling with peoples lives. And not just your own.

Thankfully most people in this country see it this way.


----------



## ellbell

wdwmom3 said:


> Allowing the border to open and have no quarantine is gambling with peoples lives. And not just your own.
> 
> Thankfully most people in this country see it this way.


Again I'm entitled to my opinion and you are entitled to yours.  Most people don't feel that way they just don't have a choice but to follow the rules put in place by our government or face fines if they chose to leave.

Open by Christmas so that people can visit their families for the holidays.


----------



## ottawamom

So people can visit their families at Christmas is not a good enough reason to open the border. It might be a wish your heart makes but then there is reality. This thing needs to get under control and be in a manageable state before life can go back to "normal". As much as we don't like living like this (no one does), it's what we have to do to get through to the other side healthy and able to live the rest of our lives.


----------



## ellbell

ottawamom said:


> So people can visit their families at Christmas is not a good enough reason to open the border. It might be a wish your heart makes but then there is reality. This thing needs to get under control and be in a manageable state before life can go back to "normal". As much as we don't like living like this (no one does), it's what we have to do to get through to the other side healthy and able to live the rest of our lives.


The title of the thread is when do you think the borders will open.  That is my answer.  I've given my opinion as to why.  The cdc doesn't even recommend a quarantine after travel anymore.


----------



## FigmentSpark

ellbell said:


> The title of the thread is when do you think the borders will open.  That is my answer.  I've given my opinion as to why.  The cdc doesn't even recommend a quarantine after travel anymore.


Very sorry for your loss.  What a terrible blow for you and your family.

CDC is an American government organization.  A highly respected one, but still American.


----------



## MoreTravels

ellbell said:


> The title of the thread is when do you think the borders will open.  That is my answer.  I've given my opinion as to why.  The cdc doesn't even recommend a quarantine after travel anymore.



We all know what CDC did after Trump made some comments... I would be careful about trusting my life totally on them now. In case you missed it, CDC immediately revised their recommendations on school reopening restriction and COVID aerosol risks. Medical guidelines can change. I would prefer to err on side of caution. If USA border is fully open, Canada's statistics would be nearly identical as the neighboring New York and Michigan states. You are entitled to your opinion. My opinion is that if I want to live in that mess, I would have moved to the States already.


----------



## MoreTravels

Ellbell... you are obviously in a state of coping. I am very sorry for your loss. People cope with the *five* stages, *denial*, *anger*, *bargaining*, *depression* and *acceptance*. It obvious which stage you are at. I want to respect that but still stay objective with you. I hope you move out of your anger soon.

The reality is, with or without the border closure, the eventual death outcome for your mom's cancer diagnosis would be the same. There is no need to feel guilty or angry. I am sure you spoke to her on the phone or even video chat on the final days. I am sure she wished all her kids to do well and not worry about her after she leaves. I think this issue has affected you more than your mom. I do not know if she was "alone" but I can see that you yourself felt alone. I truly hope you can come out of that grief and move on to acceptance. For some people, they are stuck at the depression stage. I hope you the best in your griefing.


----------



## ellbell

MoreTravels said:


> Ellbell... you are obviously in a state of coping. I am very sorry for your loss. People cope with the *five* stages, *denial*, *anger*, *bargaining*, *depression* and *acceptance*. It obvious which stage you are at. I want to respect that but still stay objective with you. I hope you move out of your anger soon.
> 
> The reality is, with or without the border closure, the eventual death outcome for your mom's cancer diagnosis would be the same. There is no need to feel guilty or angry. I am sure you spoke to her on the phone or even video chat on the final days. I am sure she wished all her kids to do well and not worry about her after she leaves. I think this issue has affected you more than your mom. I do not know if she was "alone" but I can see that you yourself felt alone. I truly hope you can come out of that grief and move on to acceptance. For some people, they are stuck at the depression stage. I hope you the best in your griefing.


My opinion on the border and the rules have nothing to do with my mother.  My friends feel the same way.  My opinion was this before she died.  

This thread is way off topic.


----------



## wdwmom3

ellbell said:


> My opinion on the border and the rules have nothing to do with my mother.  My friends feel the same way.  My opinion was this before she died.
> 
> This thread is way off topic.



You are the one who brought up your mothers death.  We are doing our best to respect your loss.


----------



## quandrea

ellbell said:


> Way to assume that my pain amd grief are what make me believe that. Again Florida was able to allow visitors without quarantine and drastically reduce their numbers by enforcing masks and social distancing.



Florida should not be held up as an example of what to do in anything related to the pandemic.


ellbell said:


> People gamble with their lives everyday by leaving the house.
> 
> Again to try to get this back on track my OPINION is that the border should be open now without a required quarantine and will be open by Christmas


Your opinion unfortunately is wrong. It’s not based on good science. Right now, all we have to throw at this bug is public health measures. Quarantine, isolation, contact tracing. Disliking those measures doesn’t change a thing.


ellbell said:


> Again I'm entitled to my opinion and you are entitled to yours.  Most people don't feel that way they just don't have a choice but to follow the rules put in place by our government or face fines if they chose to leave.
> 
> Open by Christmas so that people can visit their families for the holidays.


Citing visiting one’s family as a reason to open a country’s border is ludicrous. At this time with our reproduction number of 1.4, no one should be visiting over a holiday with family. We are looking at exponential growth right now, and without public health measures, there is no hiding from that graph. Wanting to visit family doesn’t enter into the argument. The graph doesn’t care that people want to see loved ones.

I mean this without snark—I suggest you read The Diary of Anne Frank. It might give you some perspective on what true confinement entails. None of what we have experienced so far is true confinement. Sad things have happened. People have died—sometimes alone. But we still are free. Anne didn’t breathe fresh air for over two years while in hiding.

Part of the reason we are in this second wave is people have a distorted opinion over what they are entitled to in the face of a pandemic.


----------



## tinkerone

ellbell said:


> Again I'm entitled to my opinion and you are entitled to yours.  *Most people don't feel that way *they just don't have a choice but to follow the rules put in place by our government or face fines if they chose to leave.
> 
> Open by Christmas so that people can visit their families for the holidays.


Could you please quote your source for this.  I would, and it would show the opposite, however this is your statement so you need to prove it correct, I don't need to prove it wrong.
Just judging from this thread, lots of people from different areas, you can see that your statement is not exactly correct.  Maybe your friends do agree with you but they are not 'most people', they are some people, and I would bet that they might even agree with you because of your loss, want to make you feel better.
But again, please quote your source so we can all be enlightened.


----------



## ottawamom

ellbell said:


> The title of the thread is when do you think the borders will open.  That is my answer.  I've given my opinion as to why.  The cdc doesn't even recommend a quarantine after travel anymore.


Returning to Canada quarantine rules

You are still required to quarantine upon returning to Canada. You are a Canadian resident @ellbell ?


----------



## Reepicheep

quandrea said:


> Florida should not be held up as an example of what to do in anything related to the pandemic.



The Florida statistics are certainly not encouraging (yesterday, Canada had 8 deaths, Florida had 103 deaths, overall the *Florida per capita death rate is 21x Canada*).  And Florida is considered to be a state where the growth rate in coronavirus cases is under control.

I check the statistics every few days, and it is pretty clear that the US is currently hopeless.   My bigger concern is that, with winter almost here, cases in Canada are likely going to spike and we are going to have to reintroduce shutdowns of various types.

After *cancelling our 2020* Disneyworld summer vacation, I'm now becoming convinced that a* 2021 summer trip is out of the question, too*.  We currently have 5 day tickets for Disneyland, and 10 day for Disney World, so I've been comforting myself by starting to plan a *deluxe 2022* trip where we will visit Florida and California (flights from Orlando to LAX are crazy cheap, currently on the order of $110 one way including tax for next August) and stay at nicer hotels and resorts.  An Edmonton/Orlando/LAX/Edmonton loop wouldn't cost much more than an Edmonton/Orlando return flight.


----------



## quandrea

Reepicheep said:


> The Florida statistics are certainly not encouraging (yesterday, Canada had 8 deaths, Florida had 103 deaths, overall the *Florida per capita death rate is 21x Canada*).  And Florida is considered to be a state where the growth rate in coronavirus cases is under control.
> 
> I check the statistics every few days, and it is pretty clear that the US is currently hopeless.   My bigger concern is that, with winter almost here, cases in Canada are likely going to spike and we are going to have to reintroduce shutdowns of various types.
> 
> After *cancelling our 2020* Disneyworld summer vacation, I'm now becoming convinced that a* 2021 summer trip is out of the question, too*.  We currently have 5 day tickets for Disneyland, and 10 day for Disney World, so I've been comforting myself by starting to plan a *deluxe 2022* trip where we will visit Florida and California (flights from Orlando to LAX are crazy cheap, currently on the order of $110 one way including tax for next August) and stay at nicer hotels and resorts.  An Edmonton/Orlando/LAX/Edmonton loop wouldn't cost much more than an Edmonton/Orlando return flight.


2022 is probably a safer bet. We are hoping for November 2021, but at this point, I think it’s a long shot.


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## WebmasterDoc

Since many recent posts seem not to want to discuss the topic, there is no need for this to continue and no need to restart the topic in the future.


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