# "Is ABD worth the $$$?"  Discussion thread



## sayhello

Here's a link to an ongoing thread discussion about the much asked question:  "Is Adventures by Disney worth the $$$?"   There are several good posts, especially a couple by familygoboston.  Check it out!

familygoboston's 2 posts (so far!)

http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=46790130&postcount=7

http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=47153881&postcount=15

The whole thread (come join the discussion!)

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=3023657

*ETA: *There's also a great post by Grifdog22 talking about some of the more intangible benefits of traveling with ABD.  Equally important!

http://www.disboards.com/showpost.php?p=47368398&postcount=12

Whole thread:
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=3056728

*End ETA*
Sayhello


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## moody79

We did the Central Italy trip at the end of May 2014.  In my opinion, yes, ABD was worth the money. First, our guides were AMAZING.  Anything we needed or requested, they delivered.  The accommodations selected by ABD were top notch.  While our views may not always have been spectacular, the hotels were in a prime location and very high end.  The lunches, dinners, tours, etc., arranged by ABD were absolutely wonderful.  I believe that our tour had the absolute best guides available.  Further, our ABD guides provided great direction, etc., during our " on our own" times.  While I have not been on a group tour since 1997, I will say that this ABD trip exceeded my expectations.  As a result, I do believe that is worth the money (or even more than what we paid).  If you are accustomed to Disney service, ABD is the way to tour.


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## becca0731

My then 14 year old daughter and I traveled alone to South Africa over the 2012/2013 Winter Break.  It was truly a life changing experience.  It is by far worth the cost of the trip.  With us two "girls" traveling alone my first priority was to feel safe, and Adventures by Disney didn't disappoint.  We felt secure from the time we left Birmingham till the time we arrived home in Birmingham!  EVERYTHING is taken care of, we never touched our luggage once we landed in South Africa.  We had never done a "tour" before and were a little concerned that we may not have enough time on our own.  ABD provided the perfect balance.  Everything is organized to perfection and being absolutely first class is just a bonus.  There are all age ranges on the trip and all age ranges are accommodated with choices of activities.  Coming home was bitter sweet  because we felt like our tour group had become our family.  We are still in contact with them via FB today.  We are planning another trip now, and I am intent on giving one of the adult only tours a whirl in my near future.  So above and away it is worth the cost, and your family memories will be priceless.


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## amymeadors

I feel like if you've never traveled abroad this could be a very all-inclusive and worry free way to travel.


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## Cin

It is for me as I am a single female traveler and I feel safer and know I am not traveling alone. I also don't know the area and why rent a car and tour alone when I can get a private tour and travel with not only a guide but a like minded group? It's a lot more fun to share the fun and touring alone doesn't allow for that (or strangers look at you oddly if you try to share the experience with them just because they are standing or sitting by you). For peace of mind and getting an experience I could not get otherwise on own my own, it is worth it to let Disney handle the details and all I have to do is show up and have fun! I deserve to be pampered. I may only go to Disneyland once in my adult life so why not go big or stay home? I'm not going to complain about getting VIP treatment or front of the line passes or private tours and a tour of Walt's own apartment. To stand where Walt once stood, and look out the same window down onto Disneyland...imagine how wonderful that is going to be. I could close my eyes and almost imaging Walt standing there imagineering. For me it's going to be worth it.


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## sayhello

Cin said:


> It is for me as I am a single female traveler and I feel safer and know I am not traveling alone. I also don't know the area and why rent a car and tour alone when I can get a private tour and travel with not only a guide but a like minded group? It's a lot more fun to share the fun and touring alone doesn't allow for that (or strangers look at you oddly if you try to share the experience with them just because they are standing or sitting by you). For peace of mind and getting an experience I could not get otherwise on own my own, it is worth it to let Disney handle the details and all I have to do is show up and have fun! I deserve to be pampered. I may only go to Disneyland once in my adult life so why not go big or stay home? I'm not going to complain about getting VIP treatment or front of the line passes or private tours and a tour of Walt's own apartment. To stand where Walt once stood, and look out the same window down onto Disneyland...imagine how wonderful that is going to be. I could close my eyes and almost imaging Walt standing there imagineering. For me it's going to be worth it.


I totally agree with this!  (Although I've never done the Southern California ABD.  I grew up in So Cal, and still have family there, so haven't *quite* been able to justify this one.)  But Europe?  The American Southwest?  Alaska?  Oh, yes!

Sayhello


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## Tozzie

Cin said:


> It is for me as I am a single female traveler and I feel safer and know I am not traveling alone. I also don't know the area and why rent a car and tour alone when I can get a private tour and travel with not only a guide but a like minded group? It's a lot more fun to share the fun and touring alone doesn't allow for that (or strangers look at you oddly if you try to share the experience with them just because they are standing or sitting by you). For peace of mind and getting an experience I could not get otherwise on own my own, it is worth it to let Disney handle the details and all I have to do is show up and have fun! I deserve to be pampered. I may only go to Disneyland once in my adult life so why not go big or stay home? I'm not going to complain about getting VIP treatment or front of the line passes or private tours and a tour of Walt's own apartment. To stand where Walt once stood, and look out the same window down onto Disneyland...imagine how wonderful that is going to be. I could close my eyes and almost imaging Walt standing there imagineering. For me it's going to be worth it.



I also am a solo female traveler, and while very little scares me I don't believe in tempting fate and that is one of the reasons I love ABD,  the trips, and I have been on 5 of them and have number 6 and 7 booked (Central Europe and Pre cruise for Denmark next year)  They are phenomenal and if you don't feel like doing an activity you don't have to (not that I have ever done it) on a couple of my trips there were people who wanted to do other things and the only time you have to be with ABD is when they are leaving a city otherwise just let the guides know and you will be fine. 

I have done the Backstage Magic and I was just in awe, the exclusive access to many places is DL and CA, well  just wow.  I enjoyed it so much I am considering going again next year as I would love to see World of Colo and it is Disneyland's 60th birthday.

Sayhello,  I think you can justify this trip even though you grew up out there,  there is so much exclusive access (Jim Henson Studios, Imagineering,  reserved seating for world of color and fireworks and I think the afternoon parade) Additionaly you go behind the scenes at Disneyland and California Adventure .  Even if you grew up out there you didn't have access to any of that.
One more reason I want to do it again is that when I was there (2009) it was before the makeover at California Aventure, in fact they had the mock up of Radiator Springs Racers at Imagineering,  so I really want to do it again.  

Sayhello I would really consider this especially if you grew up out there you can see things from a different perpective!


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## sayhello

Tozzie said:


> I also am a solo female traveler, and while very little scares me I don't believe in tempting fate and that is one of the reasons I love ABD,  the trips, and I have been on 5 of them and have number 6 and 7 booked (Central Europe and Pre cruise for Denmark next year)  They are phenomenal and if you don't feel like doing an activity you don't have to (not that I have ever done it) on a couple of my trips there were people who wanted to do other things and the only time you have to be with ABD is when they are leaving a city otherwise just let the guides know and you will be fine.
> 
> I have done the Backstage Magic and I was just in awe, the exclusive access to many places is DL and CA, well  just wow.  I enjoyed it so much I am considering going again next year as I would love to see World of Colo and it is Disneyland's 60th birthday.
> 
> Sayhello,  I think you can justify this trip even though you grew up out there,  there is so much exclusive access (Jim Henson Studios, Imagineering,  reserved seating for world of color and fireworks and I think the afternoon parade) Additionaly you go behind the scenes at Disneyland and California Adventure .  Even if you grew up out there you didn't have access to any of that.
> One more reason I want to do it again is that when I was there (2009) it was before the makeover at California Aventure, in fact they had the mock up of Radiator Springs Racers at Imagineering,  so I really want to do it again.
> 
> Sayhello I would really consider this especially if you grew up out there you can see things from a different perpective!


Thanks for the perspective, Tozzie!  I imagine I will take this trip at some point.   

Sayhello


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## steelydad

Having returned from the ABD add-on to the Magic in the Med and had a few weeks to reflect on the "is it worth it?" question, perhaps the more compelling question is "how often can I afford ABD?" 

Most on this trip were prior ABD travelers and seemed ready to sign up for another even after having also paid for hefty airfare from North America to Europe plus additional before/after hotel stays and the cruise.   

Perhaps it is easier to justify paying to do it right when committing precious vacation time abroad.  Skipping lines, moving efficiently, safely & comfortably between sights & activities, getting advice on the best picture spot, the best time and place to see everything and reliable guidance on every need from dietary issues in different languages (huge number of allergy needs with the group) to the nearest bathroom to the best shop to buy whatever - it is tough to price all this and probably near impossible to DIY. 

The ABD formula just works --  

 - The day planned with a mix of education (would kids listen to parents like they do to guides? ha), culture and interactive fun 
 - The peppy guides (Dusty & James same as Cheryl & Mario last time), running ahead with cases of cold water, setting a friendly tone for the group and working who-knows-what logistics behind the scenes - the benefits of 2 guides have to be more than double one
  - The benefit of travel pros background research into the best all aspects of the trip
  - Local guides with special expertise (quality varies widely though)
  - quality restaurants with local wine matched at every meal (before noon? OK when in Rome) 
  - not too little or too much Disney (tre cool pins)

On the last day the group tried to list all the other hats the guides wore - waiter, photographer, crossing guard, someone said body guard watching for pickpockets, dietician, comic, probably missing more.   

"Is it worth it?" -  totally fair question.  The cost is substantial but so is the cost of letting life experiences go by.  

Balance Adventure responsibly my friends.


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## WeLoveABD

steelydad said:


> Having returned from the ABD add-on to the Magic in the Med and had a few weeks to reflect on the "is it worth it?" question, perhaps the more compelling question is "how often can I afford ABD?"
> 
> Most on this trip were prior ABD travelers and seemed ready to sign up for another even after having also paid for hefty airfare from North America to Europe plus additional before/after hotel stays and the cruise.
> 
> Perhaps it is easier to justify paying to do it right when committing precious vacation time abroad.  Skipping lines, moving efficiently, safely & comfortably between sights & activities, getting advice on the best picture spot, the best time and place to see everything and reliable guidance on every need from dietary issues in different languages (huge number of allergy needs with the group) to the nearest bathroom to the best shop to buy whatever - it is tough to price all this and probably near impossible to DIY.
> 
> The ABD formula just works --
> 
> - The day planned with a mix of education (would kids listen to parents like they do to guides? ha), culture and interactive fun
> - The peppy guides (Dusty & James same as Cheryl & Mario last time), running ahead with cases of cold water, setting a friendly tone for the group and working who-knows-what logistics behind the scenes - the benefits of 2 guides have to be more than double one
> - The benefit of travel pros background research into the best all aspects of the trip
> - Local guides with special expertise (quality varies widely though)
> - quality restaurants with local wine matched at every meal (before noon? OK when in Rome)
> - not too little or too much Disney (tre cool pins)
> 
> On the last day the group tried to list all the other hats the guides wore - waiter, photographer, crossing guard, someone said body guard watching for pickpockets, dietician, comic, probably missing more.
> 
> "Is it worth it?" -  totally fair question.  The cost is substantial but so is the cost of letting life experiences go by.
> 
> Balance Adventure responsibly my friends.



Very well stated--bravo!


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## sayhello

steelydad said:


> Having returned from the ABD add-on to the Magic in the Med and had a few weeks to reflect on the "is it worth it?" question, perhaps the more compelling question is "how often can I afford ABD?"
> 
> Most on this trip were prior ABD travelers and seemed ready to sign up for another even after having also paid for hefty airfare from North America to Europe plus additional before/after hotel stays and the cruise.
> 
> Perhaps it is easier to justify paying to do it right when committing precious vacation time abroad.  Skipping lines, moving efficiently, safely & comfortably between sights & activities, getting advice on the best picture spot, the best time and place to see everything and reliable guidance on every need from dietary issues in different languages (huge number of allergy needs with the group) to the nearest bathroom to the best shop to buy whatever - it is tough to price all this and probably near impossible to DIY.
> 
> The ABD formula just works --
> 
> - The day planned with a mix of education (would kids listen to parents like they do to guides? ha), culture and interactive fun
> - The peppy guides (Dusty & James same as Cheryl & Mario last time), running ahead with cases of cold water, setting a friendly tone for the group and working who-knows-what logistics behind the scenes - the benefits of 2 guides have to be more than double one
> - The benefit of travel pros background research into the best all aspects of the trip
> - Local guides with special expertise (quality varies widely though)
> - quality restaurants with local wine matched at every meal (before noon? OK when in Rome)
> - not too little or too much Disney (tre cool pins)
> 
> On the last day the group tried to list all the other hats the guides wore - waiter, photographer, crossing guard, someone said body guard watching for pickpockets, dietician, comic, probably missing more.
> 
> "Is it worth it?" -  totally fair question.  The cost is substantial but so is the cost of letting life experiences go by.
> 
> Balance Adventure responsibly my friends.


Sitting here, getting ready for the Farewell dinner for my Scotland ABD  I couldn't gree with you more!!!

Sayhello


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## steelydad

And while the faithful await another fine Say Hello TR & the Scots vote, a few fun facts from the guides that may or may not impact the worth it question

-	most popular ABD  Viva Italy (Americans looooove Italy)
-	avg. time to research & test run a new ABD  1 yr (test run? sweet gig that)
-	avg. lead time given to guides on their future assignments  2-3 mos (ABD revisiting in response to guest requests for favorite guides)
-	advance info of new trips given to guides  minimal for fear guides will prematurely share with current guests (so they said)
-	old ABDs  never retired, only put on short to long hiatus for reconsideration
-	missing historical character guide  totally forgot to ask but seems to have gone the way of the stateroom Mickey lamp and gold propeller clock 

and 

-	most ABDs by 1 guest  17, at a clip of 3 per yr (, , words fail)


and these two sobering moments 

-	last ABD day  the Magic docked next to the Queen Mary II which we were told is well prepared for the not uncommon passenger whose last wish is to sail the world & shall we say does not make the whole voyage 
-	last sea day  midday Bright Star, Bright Star, Goofy Pool blares over the PA (chilling),  later after the group shares favorite ABD highlights, the guides turn off the mike and one turns to the other whispering to the effect and we have everyone we started with.  

Guides must see it all.

Lots to fit into the old space-time-vacation continuum calculator.


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## RustManFan

I find the trips truly amazing but cannot justify the cost myself.  I took my DD, DSIL and DS to Scotland for 10 days for less than it costs for 1 on the ABD trip.  We rented a car and stayed at B&Bs so we really were with the locals, could plan our own time, eat when, where and what we wanted...and see the sights that appealed to us.  Because of traveling this way (also to England and using trains as well as car) we have been able to return multiple times.... couldn't do that if I invested in ABD.

No life experience missed and more family only time doing it our way...

And I simply adore doing the Great Britain research!!  


Lucky ones who are able to swing it if ABD is the right travel choice for them!!


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## Rapunzellover

Adding to the solo female traveler love for ABD. I'm not chicken (traveled to New York alone for a week without a tour group just 3 months ago, for example) but ABD just makes travel easy. And when visiting a foreign country for the first time it's simply prudent to have people who are familiar with things backing you up. Solo or group. Why spend money and have what could be a difficult and disappointing trip when you can spend the extra money and know they'll be virtually no hassle?


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## Kevenswife2

amymeadors said:


> I feel like if you've never traveled abroad this could be a very all-inclusive and worry free way to travel.



My thoughts exactly!


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## preedymtnwest

steelydad said:


> Having returned from the ABD add-on to the Magic in the Med and had a few weeks to reflect on the "is it worth it?" question, perhaps the more compelling question is "how often can I afford ABD?"
> 
> Most on this trip were prior ABD travelers and seemed ready to sign up for another even after having also paid for hefty airfare from North America to Europe plus additional before/after hotel stays and the cruise.
> 
> Perhaps it is easier to justify paying to do it right when committing precious vacation time abroad.  Skipping lines, moving efficiently, safely & comfortably between sights & activities, getting advice on the best picture spot, the best time and place to see everything and reliable guidance on every need from dietary issues in different languages (huge number of allergy needs with the group) to the nearest bathroom to the best shop to buy whatever - it is tough to price all this and probably near impossible to DIY.
> 
> The ABD formula just works --
> 
> - The day planned with a mix of education (would kids listen to parents like they do to guides? ha), culture and interactive fun
> - The peppy guides (Dusty & James same as Cheryl & Mario last time), running ahead with cases of cold water, setting a friendly tone for the group and working who-knows-what logistics behind the scenes - the benefits of 2 guides have to be more than double one
> - The benefit of travel pros background research into the best all aspects of the trip
> - Local guides with special expertise (quality varies widely though)
> - quality restaurants with local wine matched at every meal (before noon? OK when in Rome)
> - not too little or too much Disney (tre cool pins)
> 
> On the last day the group tried to list all the other hats the guides wore - waiter, photographer, crossing guard, someone said body guard watching for pickpockets, dietician, comic, probably missing more.
> 
> "Is it worth it?" -  totally fair question.  The cost is substantial but so is the cost of letting life experiences go by.
> 
> Balance Adventure responsibly my friends.



Thank you, steelydad!  We took our two boys on our first (and unfortunately only) ABD in 2012 to the Mid-Atlantic and had the best time, despite the 100+ degree heat (which we Seattleites are NOT accustomed to).  Even though it was domestic, and even though I lived there until I was 9 and could have made the touring plans myself, our trip was successful for many of the reasons you cite. 

I'm thanking you, though, because I've recently booked our second and third ABDs, with a Med Magic add on and the pre-cruise Barcelona ABD in August 2015 and I was having serious buyer's remorse, even though we've never been to Europe and this may be our once in a lifetime chance to get there as a family (although I hope not).  It will be our 5th DCL, so I have no worries about that part, but I was seriously questioning the extra cost for ABD and was wanting a recent opinion on what you get for your $$$ since I know it can vary through the years. 

Thank you for letting me know it's still worth it!


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## betterbutter

We looked into it and decided it was definitely not worth it.  We have done a lot of traveling over the years and are very comfortable with planning.  We have taken several trips that were almost identical itineraries to what ABD was offering for half the cost and have had nicer accommodations and the ability to stop and linger at places which particularly interested us, or skip over the places we've been to or which held no interest to us.

For families who haven't traveled much or aren't comfortable planning, it would be worth looking at.  But if you can say you've been to "X" countries on your own and had a great time, it's probably not for you.  For adults who would prefer a group tour, you'll save thousands by taking a tour through a university group and have an itinerary more tailored towards adults.


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## WeLoveABD

betterbutter said:


> We looked into it and decided it was definitely not worth it.  We have done a lot of traveling over the years and are very comfortable with planning.  We have taken several trips that were almost identical itineraries to what ABD was offering for half the cost and have had nicer accommodations and the ability to stop and linger at places which particularly interested us, or skip over the places we've been to or which held no interest to us.
> 
> For families who haven't traveled much or aren't comfortable planning, it would be worth looking at.  But if you can say you've been to "X" countries on your own and had a great time, it's probably not for you.  For adults who would prefer a group tour, you'll save thousands by taking a tour through a university group and have an itinerary more tailored towards adults.


 Respectfully disagree!  We are active travelers and quite adept at planning-and have done on our own trips, other tour company tours and of course actually took ABD trips. We like to do additional things on our own pre or post trip and find that to be a great fit for us. We save up for these trips and have looked the cost factor and what you get very thoroughly and find the ABD trips well worth it for many reasons beyond just a dollar assessment. There are no ways to travel that will fit everyone's need or attitude but clearly many find ABD a great way to travel.  As I usually say in theses sorts of replies-we are all lucky and blessed to have the opportunities to see the world so it is all good!@


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## Judyat

We have done 2 ABD trips - Viva Italy and NYC dreams. While we loved both we did use DVC points. We also live close to NYC so didn't need airfare added. If you are really into Disney and can afford it than it's great. If you are not or cannot afford it there are more reasonable options without the Disney spin and we have done those too. Did an amazing 17 day trip to Thailand, Cambodia and Vietnam. i would not even consider a trip there that did not include Halong Bay. Disney's trip may be great but it leaves this beautiful UNESCO spot out. If you want more reasonable trips that are longer and include airfare and are half the price take a look at Gate 1. That said ABD are great trips for those into Disney and where price is not a factor.


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## Cousin Orville

My background is I've traveled in Europe and Asia quite a bit before having children.  I feel very comfortable and enjoy planning and traveling.  After having children we took a few DCL Baltic and Med Cruises (which I still love to do and is uniquely helpful for traveling with very young children <6).  I wanted to travel more extensively with my oldest son, but at 7yo (now 10yo) wanted him to be able to travel with other young children for fun.  And that has worked out amazingly well.  It's his favorite way to travel and I know a lot of it is because he makes great friends during these trips.  So, I can certainly attest to traveling with children regardless how comfortable you are with planning.  Traveling with other likeminded families is a major plus, and from what I've seen it seems to hold true for teens as it does for "junior adventures".

There is another aspect that I didn't understand before taking an ABD, and that's the guides.  It is just not something that can be understood until you've traveled with ABD.  I've done a lot of private tours all over the world.  The majority of the time the private guides are wonderful, but they're not on the same level as ABD guides.  I don't know how ABD picks them, but I guess somehow Disney is able to choose amongst it's thousands of cast members for the best of the best.  These guys are the Top Guns of VIP guides.  They set a certain tone when traveling.   They keep everything light hearted, fun, enjoyable, and stress free. They inform and educate.  They want everyone to have the best trip ever.   And all the guests respond to that tone as well and everyone has an amazing carefree time.  I don't know if that's the best way to describe the guides. I think you have to experience it firsthand.  But they make a big difference, and they add a lot of "value" to a trip.

I still travel a fair amount outside of ABD (and DCL).  Sometimes we take adult trips with friends with a more hardcore foodie/wine style.  Sadly that is not ABD.  If I could wave a magic wand and change one thing about ABD, I'd strive for better restaurants.  Some are amazing IMO, and some are just ok.  Sometimes we travel more extensively with our children that are too young for ABD.  We're going to Central Europe in a week with the kids.  On the upside, I'm able to choose different hotels than are on the Prague/Vienna ABD that I want and we can focus and linger when and where we want, but (if all my kids were old enough) I'd trade that sense of freedom and independence for the magical, carefree fun of the ABD.   There are disadvantages traveling with ABD, but the advantages far outweigh them.  So, I travel a lot of different ways.  ABD is consistently my favorite way.  It's not for everyone, but I would encourage anyone on the fence to try it.  I have yet to meet anyone on a trip that didn't have a a spectacular time and want to do another.


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## steelydad

Money plenty well spent 

DS and DD are same ages as yours which probably allowed for a deeper appreciation of the culture side than the younger kids who seemed to have a blast in their own way too.  

One note about expectations, we liked the pacing but* you move*, which also helps to have older kids.  In fact, first thing we learned in each country was how to say "let's go" in the local language.  Everyone kept up and held up fine but it makes one want to return especially - have to say - to Eze just to wander the streets, shops and gardens smelling those spices floating up from the market at the bottom of the hill.  That is a place to get lost, explore and linger. Guides kept saying "its a buffet, come back for what you like." Yes please.

Cousin O. has a point about the food.  The guides surveyed the group on day 1 about what everyone looked forward to the most.  Many said the food in France and Italy.  Similar survey at the end on highlights and not one vote for the food.  (But is it the choice of restaurants or has America caught up with Europe on fine cuisine?)   

The eateries were well chosen especially for location. For example, lunch on the roof of the Fairmont in Monte Carlo overlooking the mega-yachts was way more memorable for the view than the cheeseburgers (at $90, the least expensive menu item, rich indeed).  Actually, the tastiest meal was the self-made pizza at the lemon farm in Amalfi despite the authentic farm smell.  Super fresh olive oil, tomatoes and cheese, 3 min in the oven and then well, this is not pizza as we know it.

No complaints about the food, perfectly enjoyable but when you have just seen the David (avoiding a 2 hour line), maybe the next meal any where would not compare.  Europeans eat meals for hours.  Too much ground to cover for a true foodie experience.

Sometime it be that way.

Enjoy


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## minnie4ever

Rapunzellover said:


> Adding to the solo female traveler love for ABD. I'm not chicken (traveled to New York alone for a week without a tour group just 3 months ago, for example) but ABD just makes travel easy. And when visiting a foreign country for the first time it's simply prudent to have people who are familiar with things backing you up. Solo or group. Why spend money and have what could be a difficult and disappointing trip when you can spend the extra money and know they'll be virtually no hassle?



*I agree.  I am a female traveler and I have traveled extensively in the past with friends and family, and more recently to WDW, Hawaii and other places by myself. The trouble is,  I am getting older now and getting back to Europe is a little more daunting  then when I was much younger. I hate to spend the single traveler extra amount but I like the idea of traveling worry free, with a group of fun individuals that I have something in common with and with a company I know I can trust right off the bat.  So I will tighten my belt for a while and Italy here I come!*


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## BayDoesDisney

I wish I could do it


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## Poppins2000

DH and I have done two ABD trips; Ireland in 2008 and Barcelona in 2013.  Sadly their prices have skyrocketed so much over the years that we can no longer afford to do any ABD trip. 
We loved both trips, the guides and the experiences they brought to us were just wonderful.  With that said, if you can afford to go - go!


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## the who #3

after 2 abd trips, once with family and the other as a woman alone, the answer is a big yes.  it is worth the money.


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## Iheartdreaming

I have never taken a ABD trip, but I think that they are worth the money. I don't think you can put a price on the safe feeling many people say they feel when traveling with Disney. The idea of going out of the country can be very scary. My dream is to go to China, and I hope to someday do this with Abd.

Reason why it's worth the money
-You're always safe
-The Disney name can get you into exclusive places (you have to love that ABD sign)
-Hotels and transportation are planed for you
-No need to carry your own luggage
-And of course No One Does It Better Than Disney!

It's very hard to find a negative ABD review.


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## aggiedog

I've been watching ABD for years, and decided to pull the trigger yesterday.  We are currently signed up for the Danube River Cruise.  So, while I can't give BTDT information, I can explain why I'm ok with the pricing enough to want to try it.

We are seasoned travelers.  Dh and I lived in Japan for 2 years.  We've been to Europe, Africa, the South Pacific, and Asia, and done a range of organized tours to VRBO to backpacking and hostels. All were great trips, and one does not stand out as better or worse just on the amount of money spent or type of accommodations we had.  Most of the trips were done pre-marraige or pre-kids, but we've also done a few large ones with all the kids.

That said, I work hard to be able to spend my money how I want.  I also have a dh who is a bit of a snob when it comes to accommodations.  And I am now schlepping around 4 kids, who are great travelers, but who increase the amount of organizational requirements more than 4 fold.  And my parents like to travel with us.  Finding accommodations, rental cars, etc, for 8 people can be challenging.

What makes the money worth it to me is that someone else is doing all the planning.  I work full time and my kids are active in many sports and activities.  Consequently, just getting through our day is an effort in organization.  The time it would take me to research the best hotels for our large group, then find tours, arrange travel, etc, becomes overwhelming.  Yes, it can be fun, but it can take some of the fun out of the trip as well.  Then, once you get in country, it is me who is in charge of making sure we know how/when/where to go, where are we eating, when we are eating, and all the other details.  Less work than work, but not by much.  I'm looking forward to showing up in Budapest and letting ABD do everything.  THAT will be a vacation in a truest sense.

Part of what sold me on the river cruise over other ABD's is the fact that we will not be changing hotels every day or two.  And that most ports have evening free time built into them, so we can go roam about freely without the group if we want.

That said, we decided not to do the pre/post-cruise add on.  We will probably do Prague on our own.  For the price per person, I'm confident I can plan a few days in any given city, stay at a nice hotel, and have a great time.  But me planning a comparable cruise experience, and then being able to fully relax and enjoy it?  No way.  

My biggest fear, and hope, is that we'll enjoy it so much we start looking at more ABD's.


----------



## rubybell_99

aggiedog said:


> I've been watching ABD for years, and decided to pull the trigger yesterday.  We are currently signed up for the Danube River Cruise.  So, while I can't give BTDT information, I can explain why I'm ok with the pricing enough to want to try it.
> 
> 
> We are in the same boat.  Looking for years...  We travel a good amount in the states, but haven't hit europe with the kids.  When are you booked?  I am worried that this will spoil us for future trips.


----------



## sayhello

aggiedog said:


> My biggest fear, and hope, is that we'll enjoy it so much we start looking at more ABD's.


You have good reason to be afraid!    ABDs are HIGHLY addictive!

Sayhello


----------



## aggiedog

July 21.


----------



## Christina Blanco

It is worth it whether you love Disney or not. We did ours in conjunction with a Disney cruise with most stops in Italy. My husband (the non Disney fanatic) loved the all inclusiveness of it and not having to wait in a single line to see anything, including the David. I (Disney fanatic) loved our ABD tour guides and local guides and the exclusive pins they gave us  I know it's pricey but for special occasions or for a completely worry free trip it's the way to go.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

sayhello said:


> I totally agree with this!  (Although I've never done the Southern California ABD.  I grew up in So Cal, and still have family there, so haven't *quite* been able to justify this one.)  But Europe?  The American Southwest?  Alaska?  Oh, yes!
> 
> Sayhello



Trust me, you can justify it. On my Backstage magic trip there were 4 ladies (3 of whom were Lorie, Lori and Laurie) were from about 90 minutes away and regular Disneyland visitors.


----------



## Mdemayo

Thanks for all the info, going to look into the ABD trips for our family.


----------



## 2-pointdoe

Great info. We have been considering an ABD as my 7 year old DD really want to go to Italy and Paris.


----------



## bcwife76

I don't know much about ABD so I ordered their brochures, which arrived in the mail yesterday. I've been pouring over them since I ripped the envelope open! fantastic....amazing! We are looking at doing the UK and/or France (or possibly Italy) in 2018 or 2019 (when our youngest will be 8 or 9) and ABD very much appeals to us so here's hoping!


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## AquamarineSteph

I have done one ABD trip, a stellar Adventure two years ago when they offered the Italian Signature trip.  It was my first trip abroad, and it was my first time to travel with others for several days in a row.  It was truly the adventure of a lifetime, and it was worth every, single penny we spent.  

Last year we decided to compare ABD with another travel company that specialized in tours throughout Ireland and the UK.  We booked a trip that took us from Dublin to Belfast to Edinburgh to Liverpool and then back to Dublin via Wales.  We saw lots of places and lots of hotel rooms.  The cost per person was way less, and the value for dollar spent was also way less in my mind. My best times on this other company trip were times spent away from the formal tour.  The quality of the tour led sights and experiences was vastly less than what we received with Disney with one notable exception.  

This other company also hired local guides to do the main points in each city.  When we reached Edinburgh, we had a delightful local guide who had the entire bus laughing and interacting as we drove about.  Seriously - this guide MADE being in Scotland feel truly special.  We finished up the tour at the Castle, and my husband and I stopped him to chat for a few minutes.

Well, while we were talking, he told us that normally during the year he does quite a few tours, including the Disney tours which are some of his favorites.  And it clicked for me then - no wonder Edinburgh had suddenly become my favorite point on the trip.  It was dusted with a little Disney magic. ;-)

While we are exploring another travel company for 2016 - and it's solely for a specific itinerary - we have two ABD trips booked this year.  All tour companies are different, but if Disney offers a trip to a place that's on your Iwannagothere list, I'd highly recommend them to take you on an Adventure.  Disney does cost more than some of the other companies, but when it comes to value received for money spent - so far they win hands down for me.


----------



## sayhello

AquamarineSteph said:


> This other company also hired local guides to do the main points in each city.  When we reached Edinburgh, we had a delightful local guide who had the entire bus laughing and interacting as we drove about.  Seriously - this guide MADE being in Scotland feel truly special.  We finished up the tour at the Castle, and my husband and I stopped him to chat for a few minutes.
> 
> Well, while we were talking, he told us that normally during the year he does quite a few tours, including the Disney tours which are some of his favorites.  And it clicked for me then - no wonder Edinburgh had suddenly become my favorite point on the trip.  It was dusted with a little Disney magic. ;-)


Was it David by any chance?  He's the normal local guide for the Scotland ABD and he's FABULOUS!

Sayhello


----------



## AquamarineSteph

Yes!  He was so amazing, and so knowledgeable about everything to do with Edinburgh!


----------



## TheRustyScupper

1) We have taken A LOT of tours for vacations.
2) In know Europe (Continental and lower UK) from my business trips, so we do solo trips for these and self-explore.
3) But, for other destinations, we do tours.
4) I have yet to feel unsafe in any tour.
5) The price of Disney Tours, to us, is excessive. (If you charge more, do it.)
6) We would NEVER tell others not to do them, just to check out alternatives.
7) There are a lot of good tour companies out there.
. . . your travel agent should have good recommendations
. . . there are "el cheapo" tours, all the way to "deluxe" and "upscale" tours

_NOTE: In many countries, tours guides must be licensed and actually pass tests prior to licensing. So, the guides all know pretty much the same information and history. _


----------



## WeLoveABD

TheRustyScupper said:


> 1) We have taken A LOT of tours for vacations.
> 2) In know Europe (Continental and lower UK) from my business trips, so we do solo trips for these and self-explore.
> 3) But, for other destinations, we do tours.
> 4) I have yet to feel unsafe in any tour.
> 5) The price of Disney Tours, to us, is excessive. (If you charge more, do it.)
> 6) We would NEVER tell others not to do them, just to check out alternatives.
> 7) There are a lot of good tour companies out there.
> . . . your travel agent should have good recommendations
> . . . there are "el cheapo" tours, all the way to "deluxe" and "upscale" tours
> 
> _NOTE: In many countries, tours guides must be licensed and actually pass tests prior to licensing. So, the guides all know pretty much the same information and history. _


Just just curious--have you been on an ABD?


----------



## evilipoo

We are fresh off of the Magic of the Baltic add-on, and after a year of anticipation of what it would be like, I have to say....  No.  Not for this particular cruise add-on, anyway. 

We signed up because we wanted the best possible experience with the least hassle (no money conversions, tour arrangements, etc.).  And while the experience was hassle-free, it was incredibly cost-intensive.  $2100+pp in addition to the cost of the cruise.

The guides were indeed wonderful.  The places visited were (mostly) great.  The local experts were a bit hit and miss.  Not sure it that is because it was the first tour or??? 

Shortcomings were the loooooong lunches.  We were already on a cruise, there is no shortage of food, lets go SEE and DO some stuff in these wonderful countries!  We appreciated the chance to sit and have a nice lunch, but maybe cut out the dessert and coffee and give us a cookie on the bus.  In Finland, over 75% of our day was spent travelling back and forth to a farm for...  LUNCH!  That left 25 minutes for the Rock Church + shopping.  It was not even enough time to get a photo.

That being said, we would not rule out another ABD that was not a cruise add-on.  We were just disappointed that so much of our very limited port time was spent on food.


----------



## paddles

evilipoo said:


> In Finland, over 75% of our day was spent travelling back and forth to a farm for... LUNCH! That left 25 minutes for the Rock Church + shopping. It was not even enough time to get a photo.



Really? The itinerary that ABD gave me says there's a narrated drive of Helsinki with a stop at Senate Square and Rock Church. Did they get you back to the boat before 6pm (which is the all aboard time)? I'd like to make sure we have some time to walk around downtown (kids are dying to go to the Angry Birds shop since Rovio is a Finnish company).


----------



## evilipoo

paddles said:


> Really? The itinerary that ABD gave me says there's a narrated drive of Helsinki with a stop at Senate Square and Rock Church. Did they get you back to the boat before 6pm (which is the all aboard time)? I'd like to make sure we have some time to walk around downtown (kids are dying to go to the Angry Birds shop since Rovio is a Finnish company).


 
Yes, the drive to the farm was narrated.  Most of us were still adjusting to the time change, so there was a lot of sleeping on that bus (not Disney's fault by any means).  There was also some narration once we returned to the city.  We did a 20 minute photo stop at Senate Square.  Literally off/photo/back on the bus.  But, it did not look like there was much to see there anyway. 25 minutes at the Rock Church, including shopping.  No OYO time for our group in Helsinki, though this might change as they get better at it.  I did feel that as the first group on this adventure, we were kind of 'beta-testing' it.

Since Angry Birds is an Estonian creation, there is a small tie-in there.  I don't want to say more and blow it for you.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

evilipoo said:


> We are fresh off of the Magic of the Baltic add-on, and after a year of anticipation of what it would be like, I have to say....  No.  Not for this particular cruise add-on, anyway.
> 
> We signed up because we wanted the best possible experience with the least hassle (no money conversions, tour arrangements, etc.).  And while the experience was hassle-free, it was incredibly cost-intensive.  $2100+pp in addition to the cost of the cruise.
> 
> The guides were indeed wonderful.  The places visited were (mostly) great.  The local experts were a bit hit and miss.  Not sure it that is because it was the first tour or???
> 
> Shortcomings were the loooooong lunches.  We were already on a cruise, there is no shortage of food, lets go SEE and DO some stuff in these wonderful countries!  We appreciated the chance to sit and have a nice lunch, but maybe cut out the dessert and coffee and give us a cookie on the bus.  In Finland, over 75% of our day was spent travelling back and forth to a farm for...  LUNCH!  That left 25 minutes for the Rock Church + shopping.  It was not even enough time to get a photo.
> 
> That being said, we would not rule out another ABD that was not a cruise add-on.  We were just disappointed that so much of our very limited port time was spent on food.



Yikes! Interestingly though that was one of the days I was thinking about skipping the ABD and doing something on our own. A bus tour is not my idea of fun. It seems ridiculous to do something else when I've paid so much for the add-on, but there were a few PAs that sounded much more exciting. What was the farm like? Was the food any good?


----------



## evilipoo

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> Yikes! Interestingly though that was one of the days I was thinking about skipping the ABD and doing something on our own. A bus tour is not my idea of fun. It seems ridiculous to do something else when I've paid so much for the add-on, but there were a few PAs that sounded much more exciting. What was the farm like? Was the food any good?


 
The farm was nice, but we felt VERY rushed by the person giving the tour.  The tour was literally 100 feet of walking and _maybe_ 30 minutes.  The food WAS delicious.

I agree that the PAs sounded better and in retrospect (and if money were no object), I would have skipped the ABD that day and done something else.  HOWEVER, it is possible that ABD will make some adjustments, so I would stop short of advising anyone to do that.

The only souvenir shopping we saw was at the port.  And EVERY PA got in at or after all-aboard, so there was a looooong wait to get back on the ship (so plenty of time to shop there).


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

evilipoo said:


> The farm was nice, but we felt VERY rushed by the person giving the tour.  The tour was literally 100 feet of walking and _maybe_ 30 minutes.  The food WAS delicious.
> 
> I agree that the PAs sounded better and in retrospect (and if money were no object), I would have skipped the ABD that day and done something else.  HOWEVER, it is possible that ABD will make some adjustments, so I would stop short of advising anyone to do that.
> 
> The only souvenir shopping we saw was at the port.  And EVERY PA got in at or after all-aboard, so there was a looooong wait to get back on the ship (so plenty of time to shop there).


Thanks so much--I'll hold off until we get to the ship and have a chance to talk to the guides.


----------



## Patricksp

We are thinking of doing ABD, I think the big reason is that it will be kid friendly. Could anyone let us know of other tour companies that cater to families? We have done private tours (just the 2 of us) where we have a guide and driver, skip the lines etc. I want our son when he is old enough to travel with other kids and do things that might interest him and keep him interested and have fun. We really want to do the River cruise and most if not all DO NOT cater to families. I will be lurking here to see how others trips went especially the Christmas trip, which looks fantastic.


----------



## Bobo912

Patricksp said:


> We are thinking of doing ABD, I think the big reason is that it will be kid friendly. Could anyone let us know of other tour companies that cater to families? We have done private tours (just the 2 of us) where we have a guide and driver, skip the lines etc. I want our son when he is old enough to travel with other kids and do things that might interest him and keep him interested and have fun. We really want to do the River cruise and most if not all DO NOT cater to families. I will be lurking here to see how others trips went especially the Christmas trip, which looks fantastic.



Tauck and Uniworld have been offering family river cruises for quite a few years.  As far as other companies that offer land based family tours, just off the top of my head, I can think of Thomson Family Adventures, Trafalgar, Tauck, National Geographic, Abercrombie and Kent, Classic Journeys, Wildland Adventures, Backroads, Rick Steves, G Adventures, Globus, REI, and Austin Adventures.  I'm sure there are a lot more that I am forgetting or don't know about.  Kid friendly tours are not that uncommon.


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## cheryllarsen

You will never be disappointed with Disney!


----------



## cheryllarsen

We ventured on our own one day without the guides and didn't get much accomplished. It didn't help that we didn't speak Spanish at all in Peru!


----------



## evilipoo

cheryllarsen said:


> You will never be disappointed with Disney!


 
I would caution folks against this approach.  Disney gets a lot--maybe even most--things right.  But, they do misstep as well (EuroDisney, anyone?).  Some of our best travel experiences have been with Disney, but unfortunately they have not all been stellar.
Hopefully, they adjust and get better when things can be improved.


----------



## Rapunzellover

Were any of these non-stellar experiences with ABD?


Edit: I just realized you'd been talking about ABD's Baltic experience.


----------



## WebmasterMike

evilipoo said:


> I would caution folks against this approach.  Disney gets a lot--maybe even most--things right.  But, they do misstep as well (EuroDisney, anyone?).  Some of our best travel experiences have been with Disney, but unfortunately they have not all been stellar.
> Hopefully, they adjust and get better when things can be improved.



All of our ABD trips have been fantastic!  I would recommend ABD.  I would not go into a vacation blind and would do plenty of research ahead of time.   In my book, ABD is worth it.


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## tparsons

Glad to find this forum will do some serious reading of it later. I have been thinking this as a senior trip for the daughter.


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## tcufrog

Is the Alaska trip worth it?  We're debating about taking our kids next summer.  They will be 5 and 9.  We were world travelers  pre kids but apart from some hiking during vacations primarily leaned towards cultural trips.  We've never been whitewater rafting for example which is done on the trip although my kids are really good swimmers for their age.


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## kaseyC

Patricksp said:


> We are thinking of doing ABD, I think the big reason is that it will be kid friendly. Could anyone let us know of other tour companies that cater to families? We have done private tours (just the 2 of us) where we have a guide and driver, skip the lines etc. I want our son when he is old enough to travel with other kids and do things that might interest him and keep him interested and have fun. We really want to do the River cruise and most if not all DO NOT cater to families. I will be lurking here to see how others trips went especially the Christmas trip, which looks fantastic.



We had an excellent experience with Tauck Bridges this summer on their Ireland Forever tour. Me and my girls had a blast.  It was our first organized tour and we walked a way impressed.  We booked another tour with TB for next July, we are doing their Majestic California which includes San Francisco, Yosemite and Monterey.  For returning customers they have the "gift of time" free pre-night hotel for those of us who like to fly in a day early which I think is really nice perk.  For our party of three its about a $500 value.  

I'm still looking forward to trying ABD but I just haven't found the itinerary that fits yet.


----------



## Bobo912

kaseyC said:


> We had an excellent experience with Tauck Bridges this summer on their Ireland Forever tour. Me and my girls had a blast.  It was our first organized tour and we walked a way impressed.  We booked another tour with TB for next July, we are doing their Majestic California which includes San Francisco, Yosemite and Monterey.  For returning customers they have the "gift of time" free pre-night hotel for those of us who like to fly in a day early which I think is really nice perk.  For our party of three its about a $500 value.
> 
> I'm still looking forward to trying ABD but I just haven't found the itinerary that fits yet.



We did Majestic California in 2010.  It was a great trip.  My one complaint was that there was not enough time in Yosemite.  But I see from the website that they have changed the itinerary by dropping the visit to a mining town and adding a visit to Glacier Point.  So it looks even better!


----------



## Calfan

kaseyC said:


> We had an excellent experience with Tauck Bridges this summer on their Ireland Forever tour. Me and my girls had a blast.  It was our first organized tour and we walked a way impressed.  We booked another tour with TB for next July, we are doing their Majestic California which includes San Francisco, Yosemite and Monterey.  For returning customers they have the "gift of time" free pre-night hotel for those of us who like to fly in a day early which I think is really nice perk.  For our party of three its about a $500 value.
> 
> I'm still looking forward to trying ABD but I just haven't found the itinerary that fits yet.



How many were on your Ireland Forever trip?


----------



## kaseyC

Calfan said:


> How many were on your Ireland Forever trip?



We had about 38.  It worked well for us.  Everything went smoothly.  The only hiccup I recall with the size was when we were getting our bikes for the biking through Killarney.  It took awhile to get everyone the right size bikes and helmets.


----------



## Calfan

kaseyC said:


> We had about 38.  It worked well for us.  Everything went smoothly.  The only hiccup I recall with the size was when we were getting our bikes for the biking through Killarney.  It took awhile to get everyone the right size bikes and helmets.



Thanks!


----------



## disneyphx

Wanted to chime in here - after 4 ABDs (5 for DH and DD), we did our first Tauck Bridges trip this summer. 
I would say the biggest difference is in the intangible  'Disney Magic' and the guides. While I loved our trip, it just did not feel as special or magical to me as our ABDs. There was another group on our trip who had previously only done ABD too, and they agreed. However, the 'less magic' is not something that DD and DH noticed or missed as much as I did.....The time they did was on the last night when dinner was......just dinner......
It was a reminder to us to compare itineraries closely, and choose the one that most appeals/dates work etc. 
We have done one trip with Thomson Family Adventures which was fabulous - I don't think it is fair to really compare that one though as there were only 5 people (3 of us and a father/daughter).
Happy to answer questions about the comparison!


----------



## Bobo912

disneyphx said:


> Wanted to chime in here - after 4 ABDs (5 for DH and DD), we did our first Tauck Bridges trip this summer.
> I would say the biggest difference is in the intangible  'Disney Magic' and the guides. While I loved our trip, it just did not feel as special or magical to me as our ABDs. There was another group on our trip who had previously only done ABD too, and they agreed. However, the 'less magic' is not something that DD and DH noticed or missed as much as I did.....The time they did was on the last night when dinner was......just dinner......
> It was a reminder to us to compare itineraries closely, and choose the one that most appeals/dates work etc.
> We have done one trip with Thomson Family Adventures which was fabulous - I don't think it is fair to really compare that one though as there were only 5 people (3 of us and a father/daughter).
> Happy to answer questions about the comparison!



"Magic" is definitely intangible and based on the individual's perception.  But as far as some of the more tangible things that are generally mentioned as contributing to the magic, such as the little surprises along the way, I found them to be just as plentiful, or more so, on our TB trips.  But I believe TB tour directors have much more flexibility in how they handle their tours, rather than following a formula like ABD.  Our TB farewell dinners had as many special touches as ABD.  For example, on our first trip the tour director burned CDs of all the photos she had taken and handed them out at the final dinner (which I'm sure she stayed awake most of the previous night to finish).  And she had a photo contest for the kids during the tour and handed out the prizes for different categories at the farewell dinner.  And we had some other special activities, as well.  On our TB riverboat cruise, the TDs put together a photo montage video, very much like the one at the ABD farewell dinner, and we all ooohed and aaahed and got all emotional over it, just like ABD.  So for us, the farewell dinners were not just dinners and were definitely just as special as our ABDs.  But, like I said, with TB, I think it's dependent on your tour director.  Although I'm sure they have some standard training, they seem to have more leeway in how they handle the special touches.


----------



## Ava

Bobo912 said:


> Tauck and Uniworld have been offering family river cruises for quite a few years.  As far as other companies that offer land based family tours, just off the top of my head, I can think of Thomson Family Adventures, Trafalgar, Tauck, National Geographic, Abercrombie and Kent, Classic Journeys, Wildland Adventures, Backroads, Rick Steves, G Adventures, Globus, REI, and Austin Adventures.  I'm sure there are a lot more that I am forgetting or don't know about.  Kid friendly tours are not that uncommon.


Thank you for posting this list! I'm still some years off from being able to do a family tour (my youngest is only 2) but this gives me a lot of fun research to do for the next few years!

I think for me the value of traveling with a tour group (ABD or other) would greatly depend on the destination and itinerary. For a nature-focused, active itinerary or for visiting certain countries/regions of the world that I'm not at all familiar with, I'd prefer to go with a tour group. But I traveled enough in Europe pre-kids that I'm confident I can plan a great trip for my family to most any city there for a much lower cost than a group tour. I'm also not really a fan of touring by bus, which most group tours seem to do a good bit of. If the itinerary includes visiting more remote areas that would be difficult to get to on our own I'd consider it, but public transportation is plentiful and pretty easy to navigate in most European cities and the extensive rail system there makes it easy to travel between cities as well.


----------



## Woodview

To  Ava   

   Try  renting a  car      ..... they drive on the same side of the road   ... as you 

            BUT  with   , as you call it   A Stick Shift ,  ( Gear Lever )  ........ It is hard to find  an   Automatic  Car.. ( For hire )  in Europe

  I live in Ireland   and we  Drive  on  The other side of Road   ... but with a gear lever    

    So when I drive in Europe  I have to use right hand for changing gear  & in USA  get used to Automatic cars


----------



## lilaclily

Has anyone gone with Tauk tours that they con compare?  Tauk is supposed to be a premium experience but less expensive.


----------



## Losen

No.  We did the Arizona and Utah adventure last month.  The lodge at the Grand Canyon is dirty.  I think the tip for the guides is excessive.  I will never do another ABD trip ever!  My daughter had a scratched cornea in Moab and it almost  an act of


----------



## Losen

Losen said:


> No.  We did the Arizona and Utah adventure last month.  The lodge at the Grand Canyon is dirty.  I think the tip for the guides is excessive.  I will never do another ABD trip ever!  My daughter had a scratched cornea in Moab and it almost took an act of
> God to get her to the hospital.


----------



## Bobo912

lilaclily said:


> Has anyone gone with Tauk tours that they con compare?  Tauk is supposed to be a premium experience but less expensive.



Several people on the board have done both.  ABD and Tauck are very similar and sometimes Tauck costs a bit less.  Both are expensive and both are very good.  You can't go wrong with either company.


----------



## EllinK

> No. We did the Arizona and Utah adventure last month. The lodge at the Grand Canyon is dirty. I think the tip for the guides is excessive. I will never do another ABD trip ever! My daughter had a scratched cornea in Moab and it almost took an act of



We have been very interested in ABD and were thinking this would be the trip we would start with. I've been a little concerned that there have been SO FEW trip reports over the past couple years -- and now this!

If you were on an Arizona/Utah trip and had a great time, please post about it here...
Thank you!


----------



## sayhello

EllinK said:


> We have been very interested in ABD and were thinking this would be the trip we would start with. I've been a little concerned that there have been SO FEW trip reports over the past couple years -- and now this!
> 
> If you were on an Arizona/Utah trip and had a great time, please post about it here...
> Thank you!


In my opinion, the Arizona/Utah trip is one of ABD's best itineraries.  I did it in 2008, and have done 6 ABDs since, and still consider it one of my favorites.

Sayhello


----------



## Bobo912

sayhello said:


> In my opinion, the Arizona/Utah trip is one of ABD's best itineraries.  I did it in 2008, and have done 6 ABDs since, and still consider it one of my favorites.
> 
> Sayhello


 
We did the Arizon/Utah trip in 2011.  We loved it.  I think there are quite a few people on this forum who have taken it more recently and will have something positive to say if they see your post.


----------



## EllinK

Bobo912 said:


> We did the Arizon/Utah trip in 2011.  We loved it.  I think there are quite a few people on this forum who have taken it more recently and will have something positive to say if they see your post.



I'd love to hear about recent experiences!


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## Bobo912

EllinK said:


> I'd love to hear about recent experiences!



If you start a new thread asking for feedback, you'll probably get responses from some more recent travelers.


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## Chirple

EllinK, we are taking the AZ/UT trip next year.  I have a thread going with my questions in the main ABD forum.  From the majority of the feedback I've received, it sounds like a great trip and an excellent way to start with ABD.


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## minnie4ever

minnie4ever said:


> *I agree.  I am a female traveler and I have traveled extensively in the past with friends and family, and more recently to WDW, Hawaii and other places by myself. The trouble is,  I am getting older now and getting back to Europe is a little more daunting  then when I was much younger. I hate to spend the single traveler extra amount but I like the idea of traveling worry free, with a group of fun individuals that I have something in common with and with a company I know I can trust right off the bat.  So I will tighten my belt for a while and Italy here I come!*


UPDATE:
OK so I am just back from my first ABD. OMG sooo worth all that overtime. Had a great time and now I am hooked...Darn you ABD for doing such a great job!!!
Viva Italia was FANTASTIC. Yes there were a few bumps in the road. I was hot, sweaty, (it was VERY warm and humid there) got rained on an had to stop for frequent sit-downs (with some other ladies in the same boat) as I am not in the best shape, but the guides were so patient, had alternatives for us or would just lag behind until we got our wind back. Those guys worked really hard to make sure we had a good time.
Note that there  were 4 other single women on this trip besides me. 
We had fun on the bus, fun with pasta and mask making and fun at our dinners. The private tour of the Sistine Chapel was so worth it, and Rome, Venice and especially ( for me )Tuscany was so beautiful. I was with a great group of people. Oh, am I gushing???...why yes I am!
So if you are a single woman traveler and can afford an ABD, just go. Life is too short
to sit on the couch and dream. The only problem is to pick the next trip.
Scotland? London/Paris with a side of Disneyland Paris? or the biggie, South Africa?


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## Reighngold

Cousin Orville said:


> My background is I've traveled in Europe and Asia quite a bit before having children.  I feel very comfortable and enjoy planning and traveling.  After having children we took a few DCL Baltic and Med Cruises (which I still love to do and is uniquely helpful for traveling with very young children <6).  I wanted to travel more extensively with my oldest son, but at 7yo (now 10yo) wanted him to be able to travel with other young children for fun.  And that has worked out amazingly well.  It's his favorite way to travel and I know a lot of it is because he makes great friends during these trips.  So, I can certainly attest to traveling with children regardless how comfortable you are with planning.  Traveling with other likeminded families is a major plus, and from what I've seen it seems to hold true for teens as it does for "junior adventures".
> 
> There is another aspect that I didn't understand before taking an ABD, and that's the guides.  It is just not something that can be understood until you've traveled with ABD.  I've done a lot of private tours all over the world.  The majority of the time the private guides are wonderful, but they're not on the same level as ABD guides.  I don't know how ABD picks them, but I guess somehow Disney is able to choose amongst it's thousands of cast members for the best of the best.  These guys are the Top Guns of VIP guides.  They set a certain tone when traveling.   They keep everything light hearted, fun, enjoyable, and stress free. They inform and educate.  They want everyone to have the best trip ever.   And all the guests respond to that tone as well and everyone has an amazing carefree time.  I don't know if that's the best way to describe the guides. I think you have to experience it firsthand.  But they make a big difference, and they add a lot of "value" to a trip.
> 
> I still travel a fair amount outside of ABD (and DCL).  Sometimes we take adult trips with friends with a more hardcore foodie/wine style.  Sadly that is not ABD.  If I could wave a magic wand and change one thing about ABD, I'd strive for better restaurants.  Some are amazing IMO, and some are just ok.  Sometimes we travel more extensively with our children that are too young for ABD.  We're going to Central Europe in a week with the kids.  On the upside, I'm able to choose different hotels than are on the Prague/Vienna ABD that I want and we can focus and linger when and where we want, but (if all my kids were old enough) I'd trade that sense of freedom and independence for the magical, carefree fun of the ABD.   There are disadvantages traveling with ABD, but the advantages far outweigh them.  So, I travel a lot of different ways.  ABD is consistently my favorite way.  It's not for everyone, but I would encourage anyone on the fence to try it.  I have yet to meet anyone on a trip that didn't have a a spectacular time and want to do another.



Your point about making same aged friends is an excellent point.


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## Darci Thordarson

I like it


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## betrent75

WeLoveABD said:


> Respectfully disagree!  We are active travelers and quite adept at planning-and have done on our own trips, other tour company tours and of course actually took ABD trips. We like to do additional things on our own pre or post trip and find that to be a great fit for us. We save up for these trips and have looked the cost factor and what you get very thoroughly and find the ABD trips well worth it for many reasons beyond just a dollar assessment. There are no ways to travel that will fit everyone's need or attitude but clearly many find ABD a great way to travel.  As I usually say in theses sorts of replies-we are all lucky and blessed to have the opportunities to see the world so it is all good!@



I agree! We've traveled the world and even lived in Europe for several years. We vacation at both ends of the spectrum. We have looked in ABD and looked into planning our own similar trips that might mimick their itineraries and what we've learned is that you can't copy what ABD can do. If you want that white glove service and can afford it, do it. If you'd rather not, don't. I think either way you can consider yourself blessed. As long as you're doing what you want with whom you want it's a great vacation!


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## DCPhotoGal

I had a good taste of why ABD is worth it after my last (self-planned) trip.  We have taken two ABD trips, Scotland in 2014 and Galapagos in 2015.  Last month we went to Hawaii on our own since there is no ABD option.  It really made me appreciate all of the magic that goes into making the ABDs as smooth as they are.  When I arrived in Hawaii after 12 hours of travel, we had to ride a shuttle to the rental car facility, and wait about 40 minutes for a rental car, then drive to the hotel with bags on our laps because the car's trunk was too small  for our luggage.  When we tried to check into our first hotel, we were told that they did not have a reservation for us.  Despite the fact that I had a confirmation number and email from Hilton confirming the dates/rates. They told me that the hotel was totally full and there was no room for us, but after much discussion with several managers they did end up finding a room and eventually apologized for their mistake.  Then on our last day on the island we had scheduled a helicopter tour to see the volcanoes.  It was cancelled due to weather and we never got to go.  We hadn't had the foresight not to plan this for our last day since we didn't realize that the weather would be so unpredictable and that rescheduling is common.  The second half of our trip was a little better since we were staying at Aulani, but I still feel like we were struggling to find a good balance of resort time and fun activities/excursions with the kids.  I kept thinking... these are all things that would not have happened on an ABD.  Someone would have fixed the hotel problem before we got there... our luggage would have been comfortably stashed in a nice car and we would have been driven by a polite driver from the airport... and they would have planned the helicopter tour at a better time so that it was less likely to be cancelled.  These are the types of things they do behind the scenes that make your experience better and make it worthwhile.  

Beyond the logistical help, there was the other issue of my preteens and their newfound reluctance for family vacations.  I hadn't realized how much difference if made to have other kids their own age on the vacation until we took this most recent one with just our family of 4.  On our ABD trips, the kids made new friends and spent their free time playing with the other kids rather than on their ipads.  They had buddies on the bus rides, and the adults had other adults to chat with.  There was so much less friction within our own family when we were with the ABD groups because there was a good mix of family time, separate kid/adult time and group time.  I could tell my girls really missed that on our most recent trip.  They tried to make friends with other kids at the resorts, but it seemed that everyone was on a different schedule so it was hard to coordinate.


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## mindeola

I have never seen a bad review of ABD's so my perception is that it is worth it. Unfortunately, it is not in my budget right now. I have three in college. Sigh. One day I will get to do my ABD! Right now we have to travel on the cheap. We managed to go to Scotland last summer. I am dreaming of that Norway ABD trip. That will be my present when my youngest graduates from college!


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## Shingebiss

My DD (11) and I went to Costa Rica in February 2014 and loved it!  This past September we went on an equally expensive family tour with Thomson Family Adventures which we also enjoyed.  The Disney trip though had a much better rafiki and much higher quality hotels, transportation, and help with luggage etc.  So given the similar prices I would say Disney was worth it.  I would book with them again if they went anywhere else during the MidWinter break!!


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## Mattysmom

We're hoping to discuss this. Good information here. Thank you.


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## betrent75

Cousin Orville said:


> My background is I've traveled in Europe and Asia quite a bit before having children.  I feel very comfortable and enjoy planning and traveling.  After having children we took a few DCL Baltic and Med Cruises (which I still love to do and is uniquely helpful for traveling with very young children <6).  I wanted to travel more extensively with my oldest son, but at 7yo (now 10yo) wanted him to be able to travel with other young children for fun.  And that has worked out amazingly well.  It's his favorite way to travel and I know a lot of it is because he makes great friends during these trips.  So, I can certainly attest to traveling with children regardless how comfortable you are with planning.  Traveling with other likeminded families is a major plus, and from what I've seen it seems to hold true for teens as it does for "junior adventures".
> 
> There is another aspect that I didn't understand before taking an ABD, and that's the guides.  It is just not something that can be understood until you've traveled with ABD.  I've done a lot of private tours all over the world.  The majority of the time the private guides are wonderful, but they're not on the same level as ABD guides.  I don't know how ABD picks them, but I guess somehow Disney is able to choose amongst it's thousands of cast members for the best of the best.  These guys are the Top Guns of VIP guides.  They set a certain tone when traveling.   They keep everything light hearted, fun, enjoyable, and stress free. They inform and educate.  They want everyone to have the best trip ever.   And all the guests respond to that tone as well and everyone has an amazing carefree time.  I don't know if that's the best way to describe the guides. I think you have to experience it firsthand.  But they make a big difference, and they add a lot of "value" to a trip.
> 
> I still travel a fair amount outside of ABD (and DCL).  Sometimes we take adult trips with friends with a more hardcore foodie/wine style.  Sadly that is not ABD.  If I could wave a magic wand and change one thing about ABD, I'd strive for better restaurants.  Some are amazing IMO, and some are just ok.  Sometimes we travel more extensively with our children that are too young for ABD.  We're going to Central Europe in a week with the kids.  On the upside, I'm able to choose different hotels than are on the Prague/Vienna ABD that I want and we can focus and linger when and where we want, but (if all my kids were old enough) I'd trade that sense of freedom and independence for the magical, carefree fun of the ABD.   There are disadvantages traveling with ABD, but the advantages far outweigh them.  So, I travel a lot of different ways.  ABD is consistently my favorite way.  It's not for everyone, but I would encourage anyone on the fence to try it.  I have yet to meet anyone on a trip that didn't have a a spectacular time and want to do another.



I love the way you articulated all of that! We can relate to everything you wrote! Thank you! I was talking with someone last night (whom I had just met, a fellow disneyphile, and DVC member) and we discussed everything you just said. It really helps frame an educated decision. Thank you!


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## ldo

we just got back from DCL to Norway and 2 weeks DIY land. We were in line at the airport with a family going on ABD to Italy. We joked that we were going on Adventures by [our last name]. After a few mishaps, including our sold-out hotel for 4 persons only sleeping 2 persons and a train to nowhere (instead of a cute Rhine town) due to mudslides, we started calling our trip "Misadventures by ____." I am quite comfortable in Europe and resolved our various issues. But, these various mishaps could have unnerved someone else. I negotiated many trains, planes, boats, hotels, and spent many hours prior to the trip planning. Many things worked perfectly on my well-researched agenda and we saw so many fabulous sights. But, we also had many small mishaps (getting off a the wrong train stop and sprinting to catch the sight-seeing boat, trying to get train tickets from Disney Paris into Paris right after Eurostar arrived with 300+ people, after waiting in line 45 minutes, giving up and (luckily) getting a cab to take us to Paris, as we had a limited amount of time to see the Louvre.). Small things, but it can affect your day. I had a plan B and C. At one point DD said we were on plan Z. Part of the trip felt like the amazing race. 
We had a great, exhausting trip for less than 1/2 the price of ABD. If I did not speak some French, didn't have time to devote to planning, down to the train schedules, shuttle hours, route from metro to hotel, etc., or had a single child, then I would definitely consider ABD.


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## 85glht

ldo said:


> we just got back from DCL to Norway and 2 weeks DIY land. We were in line at the airport with a family going on ABD to Italy. We joked that we were going on Adventures by [our last name]. After a few mishaps, including our sold-out hotel for 4 persons only sleeping 2 persons and a train to nowhere (instead of a cute Rhine town) due to mudslides, we started calling our trip "Misadventures by ____." I am quite comfortable in Europe and resolved our various issues. But, these various mishaps could have unnerved someone else. I negotiated many trains, planes, boats, hotels, and spent many hours prior to the trip planning. Many things worked perfectly on my well-researched agenda and we saw so many fabulous sights. But, we also had many small mishaps (getting off a the wrong train stop and sprinting to catch the sight-seeing boat, trying to get train tickets from Disney Paris into Paris right after Eurostar arrived with 300+ people, after waiting in line 45 minutes, giving up and (luckily) getting a cab to take us to Paris, as we had a limited amount of time to see the Louvre.). Small things, but it can affect your day. I had a plan B and C. At one point DD said we were on plan Z. Part of the trip felt like the amazing race.
> We had a great, exhausting trip for less than 1/2 the price of ABD. If I did not speak some French, didn't have time to devote to planning, down to the train schedules, shuttle hours, route from metro to hotel, etc., or had a single child, then I would definitely consider ABD.



Your "vacation family name" should be like ours... The Griswolds, lol.  That's what we call ourselves lately.  Had many mishaps on a few trips somewhat like yours.  It all turned out well though and we chalked it up to one of life's lessons.
   Anywho, ABD is on the pricey side, but they do take care of EVERYTHING. We have done two so far, one trip we will do again, the other we would do on our own.  Just my $.02


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## ldo

OTOH, on reflection, we might have had fewer mishaps if we weren't jamming so much in everyday with some tight timing (but there is nothing I would have cut out). It was relatively easy with the internet to research and plan outings. At one point, we literally felt like we were shadowing several Rhine River cruise. We saw Viking cruisers on shore excursions in Heidelberg, Basel, St. Goar, Colmar, and Strasbourg. Of course, we had to navigate the train/bus/tickets ourselves, but as it was less than 100 euros per day for travel and admission tickets for a family of 4, we put up with a few mishaps. I try to put in a few experiences to try to mimic ABD, like eating lunch at Heidelberg castle and wine tasting in the castle's cellar.
I estimate that the land portion for food/transport/hotels/museums for 12 days for 4 persons was under $7K total, and that included a DDay beaches full day tour, Louvre, Fountainebleu, one day Disney Paris, 3 other castle tours, Strasbourg Cathedral tower climb, Basel Zoo, Rhine day cruise, and much more. So, at this point in our lives, we find DCL in Europe worth it (7 day OV cabin for 4 to Norway was $6500), but not ABD. The difference in price pays a year of DD's in-state college.
It's A LOT of planning and logistics, but if travel is your hobby and you have the time and can roll with some mishaps, a family can save a lot of $. But, you also have to be able to hang out 24/7 and not get on each others' nerves, as there is no tour guide or buffer of other families. Another benefit to DIY, is that you can pick a base and day trip. We did a base on the Rhine (3 days), Disney Paris (6 days) and then Colmar, France (3 days). I gave everyone an agenda and then let them decide each day if they were going on the planned outing or chilling at the hotel. 1 or 2 days, a teen decided to chill. You cannot do this on a tour.


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## sayhello

Never mind.


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## ldo

I was asked if I had taken ABD. my comments are from someone who has not taken ABD, but has just done DCL to Europe with a DIY pre-land. They were designed to give those considering ABD in Europe but wondering whether it was "worth it" compared to DIY an idea of both the snafus and minor/major mishaps that occur when DIY that occur, as well a a real-life cost estimate of the difference in price for Europe. Of course, I cannot comment on the great guides or, I assume, wonderful friends you make on these trips. But, I thought that my experiences might help someone decide if they had the personality to be comfortable with these types of snafus and the massive planning beforehand or book with ABD or another tour company. We made our decision that ABD is not worth it for a family of 5+, based solely on cost vs. what I could plan and execute DIY. I gave some of our snafus, as well as easy excursions and day trips to show what was possible DIY.  I thought DCL and DIY land was a less expensive (and perfect, IMHO) option for Europe for some to consider, as well.
I am in no way discouraging others from ABD. Again (from my 1st post), if I did not speak some French, didn't have time to devote to planning, down to the train schedules, shuttle hours, route from metro to hotel, etc., or had a single child, then I would definitely consider ABD. Elaine


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## seema

I do not think there would be more than a few people, if anyone, who would be dissatisfied with the quality of ABD tours. The question is whether it is worth the cost. One way to answer this question is to ask anyone, who has taken an ABD tour, and a similar luxury tour by another tour company but at a lower cost, and compare the 2 tours.


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## TheRustyScupper

1) When "doing Europe", we fly-in and do a self-directed tour.
. . . I ran manufacturing plants in Wales0France-England-CzechRepublic, and drove around a lot on long weekends.
. . . With the aid of a Rick Steve's guidebook, for finer points, I can still get around without much effort.
2) When we go elsewhere, we usually take a packaged tour.
3) Just is easy for me to ask non-retired subordinates who they use, and haven't had a bad tour yet.
. . . each area of country has tours that are better than others
. . . although non are "bad", some do provide more info
. . . plus, we do to want to hit the typical "tourist" spots
. . . in many cases, "the path least taken" yields greater sights and more interesting conversation/interaction with the locals.
4) We did to an ABD, and although nice, did not think it warranted the added costs.
5) There is a SIGNIFICANT PREMIUM over other tours.
. . . that money is far better spend on souvenirs or side-tours
. . . we frequently use saved moneys to eat at fancier or more ethnic local restaurants
. . . tours are nice, but we do like to upscale in some towns


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## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

In my opinion, Adventures by Disney is no longer worth the price. I think they used to be but not anymore. We just got back from the Central Europe ABD and for the price we paid I think we could have done it better on our own and done 95% of what our ABD offered ourselves because the tours were available to book by anyone if you knew where to look. And believe me, I looked because Disney would not guarantee our trip as going until 6 weeks prior to departure even though we had 22 people on our trip 8 months before departure. We only had 2 exclusive VIP experiences on our trip and they were not worth it. Our first VIP experience was a dinner at Folklore Gardens in Prague and it was mediocre at best. The dancing was nice but the food was horrible. If you want a cultural experience in Prague, go enjoy dinner in Old Town Square then go get tickets to one of the 300 concert halls around town. And our other VIP experience was a private after hours tour of the Vienna Zoo and dinner in the Emperor's Pavilion, both of which is at Scheonbrunn. The bus was late picking us up and then it took us an hour to get from the hotel to the Palace (it was a 15 minute subway ride - I know because I'd done it earlier in the day) so that by the time we even got to the zoo it was already getting dark. Well how can we see animals if it's dark out? And as for dinner? That was a joke. The food was cold and hard, that's if you were lucky enough to even get food. Half the people at my table didn't even get their food while everyone else in the group was getting second and third drinks and the guides didn't do anything about it until I snapped at a waiter who was bringing second and third drinks to the table. Really the only thing that saved this trip for us, was us. We made sure that we saw and did the things that we wanted to do and that meant leaving the group multiple times. We bailed on the group in Salzburg and both days in Vienna. But basically everything that was being offered on this trip, I could book myself, even the privately guided tour of Prague Castle, I can book myself. Only reason we even went with ABD in the end was because we couldn't cancel without forfeiting our deposit and we weren't going to do that.

As for a comparison with a comparable trip. I'm booked to do South East Asia in just over 3 months with another company. It is pretty comparable with the ABD South East Asia trip. My trip goes to a few different places in Vietnam but the two trips go to the same three countries of Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia.

*Adventures by Disney*
It starts at $5,599/per adult and Disney has it "listed" as 12 days/11 nights. But when you actually really look into the trip details. You are only getting 9 days of actual guided touring time. You have no official guided tour time on your arrival or departure day and you have an on your own day in the middle of the trip with no guided touring that day. Break that down and it works out to a cost of $622 per guided tour day, since that's what I'm paying to go on this trip for, guided touring time. 

*Other Tour Company (See Signature for Company)*
We're paying $6,495/per adult and it's a 13 day adventure. We have activities with our guides on our arrival day and we are touring with our guides on our departure day. We have no on our own days anywhere on the trip. We have on our own time but no full days of on our own time. That breaks down to $499 per guided tour day. I think even though we have the bigger sticker price, we're actually getting the better deal for our dollar overall


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## sayhello

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> In my opinion, Adventures by Disney is no longer worth the price. I think they used to be but not anymore. We just got back from the Central Europe ABD and for the price we paid I think we could have done it better on our own and done 95% of what our ABD offered ourselves because the tours were available to book by anyone if you knew where to look. And believe me, I looked because Disney would not guarantee our trip as going until 6 weeks prior to departure even though we had 22 people on our trip 8 months before departure. We only had 2 exclusive VIP experiences on our trip and they were not worth it. Our first VIP experience was a dinner at Folklore Gardens in Prague and it was mediocre at best. The dancing was nice but the food was horrible. If you want a cultural experience in Prague, go enjoy dinner in Old Town Square then go get tickets to one of the 300 concert halls around town. And our other VIP experience was a private after hours tour of the Vienna Zoo and dinner in the Emperor's Pavilion, both of which is at Scheonbrunn. The bus was late picking us up and then it took us an hour to get from the hotel to the Palace (it was a 15 minute subway ride - I know because I'd done it earlier in the day) so that by the time we even got to the zoo it was already getting dark. Well how can we see animals if it's dark out? And as for dinner? That was a joke. The food was cold and hard, that's if you were lucky enough to even get food. Half the people at my table didn't even get their food while everyone else in the group was getting second and third drinks and the guides didn't do anything about it until I snapped at a waiter who was bringing second and third drinks to the table. Really the only thing that saved this trip for us, was us. We made sure that we saw and did the things that we wanted to do and that meant leaving the group multiple times. We bailed on the group in Salzburg and both days in Vienna. But basically everything that was being offered on this trip, I could book myself, even the privately guided tour of Prague Castle, I can book myself. Only reason we even went with ABD in the end was because we couldn't cancel without forfeiting our deposit and we weren't going to do that.
> 
> As for a comparison with a comparable trip. I'm booked to do South East Asia in just over 3 months with another company. It is pretty comparable with the ABD South East Asia trip. My trip goes to a few different places in Vietnam but the two trips go to the same three countries of Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia.
> 
> *Adventures by Disney*
> It starts at $5,599/per adult and Disney has it "listed" as 12 days/11 nights. But when you actually really look into the trip details. You are only getting 9 days of actual guided touring time. You have no official guided tour time on your arrival or departure day and you have an on your own day in the middle of the trip with no guided touring that day. Break that down and it works out to a cost of $622 per guided tour day, since that's what I'm paying to go on this trip for, guided touring time.
> 
> *Other Tour Company (See Signature for Company)*
> We're paying $6,495/per adult and it's a 13 day adventure. We have activities with our guides on our arrival day and we are touring with our guides on our departure day. We have no on our own days anywhere on the trip. We have on our own time but no full days of on our own time. That breaks down to $499 per guided tour day. I think even though we have the bigger sticker price, we're actually getting the better deal for our dollar overall


Cinderella's Slipper, I didn't realize you'd been on an ABD previous to this one.  Which one?  I'd be interested to hear why you thought that one was more "worth it" than the Central Europe trip.

I'm sorry this trip didn't meet up to your expectations, but I think when it gets to a point that you're only taking a trip so that you don't lose your deposit, then maybe you could have, perhaps, explored having your deposit moved to another trip, and done this one on your own.  I think it's sad that you went in already knowing that you didn't want to do most of the activities on the trip, and that you were going to skip out on big chunks of it, and not really be a part of it.  It seems to me like you actually *did* waste your deposit if you took a trip you didn't like or want to be on just to not lose the deposit.

I hope that National Geographic ends up fitting your needs better.  It seems like you're more impressed with their itinerary, so hopefully there's a chance this might be the case.  Obviously, ABD is not going to be the right fit for everybody.  I'm glad you've really examined the itinerary for Nat Geo, and it seems more like something you'd like.  You'll have to let us know how that goes.

Sayhello


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## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

sayhello said:


> Cinderella's Slipper, I didn't realize you'd been on an ABD previous to this one.  Which one?  I'd be interested to hear why you thought that one was more "worth it" than the Central Europe trip.
> 
> I'm sorry this trip didn't meet up to your expectations, but I think when it gets to a point that you're only taking a trip so that you don't lose your deposit, then maybe you should have, at the least, explored having your deposit moved to another trip, and done this one on your own.  I think it's sad that you went in already knowing that you didn't want to do most of the activities on the trip, and that you were going to skip out on big chunks of it, and not really be a part of it.  It seems to me like you actually *did* waste your deposit if you took a trip you didn't like or want to be on just to not lose the deposit.
> 
> I hope that National Geographic ends up fitting your needs better.  It seems like you're more impressed with their itinerary, so hopefully there's a chance this might be the case.  Obviously, ABD is not going to be the right fit for everybody.  I'm glad you've really examined the itinerary for Nat Geo, and it seems more like something you'd like.  You'll have to let us know how that goes.
> 
> Sayhello



We did the Backstage Magic trip and that trip was worth the cost. We felt that the access we got was such that it is impossible to recreate. You truly do get VIP access that you cannot recreate on your own. 

As for the deposit issue with Central Europe, we were not about to forego the deposit since ABD changed their deposit policy to 10% of your trip price and that would mean we would lose about $500 per person and that would be in US funds so that would be about $600 Canadian per person and there really are no other ABD trips that are of interest to us at this point in time. Either they don't have an adult trip or they don't do what/go to where we want to. It's not that we didn't want to do most of the activities on the trip, we actually did want to do most of the activities on the trip and we did. We bailed in Salzburg because we didn't want to do the Sound of Music tour and we toured the fortress there instead. As for Vienna, quite frankly the tour we got of the Palace was horrible. It was a 45 minute tour of 1/2 the palace where the guide stood us in a room off the ballroom to talk ABOUT the ballroom. Seriously? This was the one thing I really wanted to see in Vienna. I came to Vienna to Schonnbrunn Palace and I got raced through it in 45 minutes and only got shown 1/2 the palace and was only told minimal information about it. And nevermind getting to see the amazing gardens out the back. My mom knew how disappointed I was with the tour so she just told the ABD guide that we were done with the group for the day and we were staying at the Palace. Had we known how bad the zoo tour and dinner would have been we would have bought the ticket that included the zoo, not just the full palace tour, gardens and gloriette access. 

Believe me, if we could have gotten the money back from Disney, we would have but there was no way they would have given us the money back unless they cancelled the trip.

All of this will show up in my blog, as will my South East Asia trip.  I'm working on the next instalment now.


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## Woodview

To  Sayhello ,

    You have  " done " the  boat  cruise       &  would you do it again  But make your own  Bookings   ?
..........................

To Cinderella's Slipper,

  Would you go back to  Austria     &  make your own bookings  ?

.................

 Me  ..... I would do it    & have done .   but without  guides .

 I was in Berlin  for 4 days  2 weeks ago    & drove  a Trabant   car  ----- Trabant Safari Tours  in Berlin

  Yes there were 6 of us  & at least   8  local  " Berlin locals " ( 1 born in Ireland & 1  now living in Ireland )


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## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

Woodview said:


> Would you go back to  Austria     &  make your own bookings  ?



Yes. I would totally go back to Austria on my own. We basically did Vienna on our own anyway and we had a great time. We didn't want to leave actually. We even found a Marriott just down from the Ritz and went and got their contact information so I know which hotel I'm looking for to book it. We're looking at the possibility of going back there in 2018. N.G. has a hiking tour of the Czech Republic that we're looking where you fly into Vienna and then get driven straight to Valtice in the Czech Republic and the trip finishes up in Prague. We would spend a few extra days in Prague (we loved it there too) and then take the train down to Vienna and spend a few days in Vienna before flying home. Even if we didn't do the hiking trip, we are talking about just going and doing Prague and Vienna on our own. We fell in love with both cities and we enjoyed them both more when we were exploring them on our own. But we also don't believe that you find the culture in the way that Disney is presenting it. We don't feel that you truly experience the culture of a place in the packaged Hollywood version of place like with the Sound of Music tour. That's not Austria or Salzburg. To us, we find the culture of a place out amongst the people, doing what they do, going where they go.


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## sayhello

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> Yes. I would totally go back to Austria on my own. We basically did Vienna on our own anyway and we had a great time. We didn't want to leave actually. We even found a Marriott just down from the Ritz and went and got their contact information so I know which hotel I'm looking for to book it. We're looking at the possibility of going back there in 2018. N.G. has a hiking tour of the Czech Republic that we're looking where you fly into Vienna and then get driven straight to Valtice in the Czech Republic and the trip finishes up in Prague. We would spend a few extra days in Prague (we loved it there too) and then take the train down to Vienna and spend a few days in Vienna before flying home. Even if we didn't do the hiking trip, we are talking about just going and doing Prague and Vienna on our own. We fell in love with both cities and we enjoyed them both more when we were exploring them on our own. But we also don't believe that you find the culture in the way that Disney is presenting it. We don't feel that you truly experience the culture of a place in the packaged Hollywood version of place like with the Sound of Music tour. That's not Austria or Salzburg. To us, we find the culture of a place out amongst the people, doing what they do, going where they go.


Like going to a family run farm, learning about what they do, and making cheese and pizza with them?  Or going to a family-run Apricot farm and learning about what they do and tasting their products?  Or by rising at dawn to join the locals in offering sticky rice to the monks in Laos?  Or by traveling to a remote town in the hills of Crete to watch a farmer milk his goats, learn how to make cheese from him, and dine on a meal cooked in a traditional stove and help make little honey cakes for your dessert?  Or going to a small bakery in Scotland to learn how to make scones?  There *are* ABD's that include amazing cultural activities with the locals, many of which you *can't* reproduce on your own.  It just sounds to me like perhaps you didn't research the itinerary you went on well enough, if that's the experience you were looking for.

Sayhello


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## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

sayhello said:


> Like going to a family run farm, learning about what they do, and making cheese and pizza with them?  Or going to a family-run Apricot farm and learning about what they do and tasting their products?  Or by rising at dawn to join the locals in offering sticky rice to the monks in Laos?  Or by traveling to a remote town in the hills of Crete to watch a farmer milk his cows, learn how to make cheese from him, and dine on a meal cooked in a traditional stove and help make little honey cakes for your dessert?  Or going to a small bakery in Scotland to learn how to make scones?  There *are* ABD's that include amazing cultural activities with the locals, many of which you *can't* reproduce on your own.  It just sounds to me like perhaps you didn't research the itinerary you went on well enough, if that's the experience you were looking for.
> 
> Sayhello



How exactly is taking a Sound of Music tour in Salzburg cultural? That isn't Austrian culture. That's Hollywood's idea of Austrian culture. And as for the monks in Laos, we'll be doing that on our trip anyway. Plus, we get far more cultural experiences than what ABD is offering on their trip. No tuk-tuk scavenger hunts through Angkor Wat for us.


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## sayhello

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> How exactly is taking a Sound of Music tour in Salzburg cultural? That isn't Austrian culture. That's Hollywood's idea of Austrian culture. And as for the monks in Laos, we'll be doing that on our trip anyway. Plus, we get far more cultural experiences than what ABD is offering on their trip. No tuk-tuk scavenger hunts through Angkor Wat for us.


I didn't say *all* their activities are cultural in nature.  Some of them are just because 95% of the people who go to Salzburg want to see the sights from the Sound of Music.  Lots of people (including me) like to do some touristy things, too.  There's a reason some things are popular with the tourists.

Sayhello


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## luckylady131

We are going on our first ABD trip in May to Italy.  We are expats in Europe right now and in the past 14 months since we moved here, we've visited around the Netherlands where we live, Antwerp, Brussles, Amsterdam, Cologne, Paris, Barcelona, Crete, been on a Disney cruise to Denmark, Norway, Iceland, Scotland, and England.  Every single one of those trips (including the disney cruise), I ALONE organized all of our excursions and tours of the cities.  My husband has zero interst in travel planning, so I do it all.

I know I could do Italy on our own.  But, frankly, I want to be able to go to MY dream destination and just be able to sit back and enjoy it.  Have some one ELSE hand me an itinerary that's been vetted, so I can finally just show up and enjoy myself.   So just enjoying myself is really the only expectation I have!


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## sayhello

luckylady131 said:


> We are going on our first ABD trip in May to Italy.  We are expats in Europe right now and in the past 14 months since we moved here, we've visited around the Netherlands where we live, Antwerp, Brussles, Amsterdam, Cologne, Paris, Barcelona, Crete, been on a Disney cruise to Denmark, Norway, Iceland, Scotland, and England.  Every single one of those trips (including the disney cruise), I ALONE organized all of our excursions and tours of the cities.  My husband has zero interst in travel planning, so I do it all.
> 
> I know I could do Italy on our own.  But, frankly, I want to be able to go to MY dream destination and just be able to sit back and enjoy it.  Have some one ELSE hand me an itinerary that's been vetted, so I can finally just show up and enjoy myself.   So just enjoying myself is really the only expectation I have!


Well, ABD excels at that, so you should be in great hands!

Sayhello


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## *WDW*Groupie*

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> Yes. I would totally go back to Austria on my own. We basically did Vienna on our own anyway and we had a great time. We didn't want to leave actually. We even found a Marriott just down from the Ritz and went and got their contact information so I know which hotel I'm looking for to book it. We're looking at the possibility of going back there in 2018. N.G. has a hiking tour of the Czech Republic that we're looking where you fly into Vienna and then get driven straight to Valtice in the Czech Republic and the trip finishes up in Prague. We would spend a few extra days in Prague (we loved it there too) and then take the train down to Vienna and spend a few days in Vienna before flying home. Even if we didn't do the hiking trip, we are talking about just going and doing Prague and Vienna on our own. We fell in love with both cities and we enjoyed them both more when we were exploring them on our own. But we also don't believe that you find the culture in the way that Disney is presenting it. We don't feel that you truly experience the culture of a place in the packaged Hollywood version of place like with the Sound of Music tour. That's not Austria or Salzburg. To us, we find the culture of a place out amongst the people, doing what they do, going where they go.



I think what you might be missing is the challenging logistics of the ABD Central Europe tour.  Getting from Prague to Vienna via Berchesgarten (sp?) would not be easy to do on your own, unless perhaps you were going to rent a car.  I would not be comfortable navigating those roads on my own, though I know there are some who would.  

Also, from what I recall of the tour there were several pieces that were unique or could hard to plan on your own (perhaps due to the remote location i.e. ice cave):

pretzel making
salt mine tour
hike to the ice cave (and subsequent lunch on the mountain)

garden with the water fountains (sorry I cannot recall the name, but I think we were the only group who got this unique experience)
dinner at Schonbrun castle zoo -- sorry yours wasn't good; ours was quite good and we were permitted to go into the zoo at leisure until it was too dark to see (yes, it was ours and ours alone -- ABD has no control over traffic in any given city)
waltzing lesson -- I *may* have been the only in our group who enjoyed this, but it was a highlight of the trip for me.  So much so that attending a Viennese Waltz is now on my bucket list 

getting into the stables at the Spanish Riding School (no others tours were permitted this)
pictures -- although not part of the tours you get photos from ABD that you aren't going to get anywhere else
Now could you have done these things on your own?  Perhaps.  Would you have have been with several like-minded travelers who all speak English?  Maybe, maybe not. Would it take more days to do everything ABD does?  Absolutely.  Simply because they are experts at getting everyone from one place to another expeditiously and safely.  

Having done my own tour of London and Paris and Paris, Venice, Florence and Rome I can tell you that it requires extensive planning and an attitude that adapts well to unexpected events.  Things can and do happen and it sure is nice to ABD there to smooth everything out so that (hopefully) no one notices when there is a glitch.  As an example we had at least 1, maybe 2 internal flights in China that were seriously delayed.  All the announcements and postings were in Mandarin and there were people everywhere.  Without our Mandarin-speaking guide I'm not sure if everyone would've made the flight.  We were all given ample money to buy drinks and food (even though we were supposed to be fed on the plane) and also taken to a more comfortable seating area (better than the floor, which was all that was available by the gate).  When boarding time finally arrived, we were all well fed and led to the plane without any kinks.  Our tours in our arrival cities were ready and waiting for us and we didn't miss anything.  In both instances (Chengdu and Xi'an) the hotels kept the dining rooms open for us so we could eat (that included the pizza oven on the buffet at the Ritz Carlton in Chengdu that was just about to close and happily made custom pizzas for anyone in our group who wanted one; all the food on the buffet was freshly made just for us, including the sushi).  There is NO way any of that could have happened if you were traveling on your own.  

I have made friends on an ABD who we have traveled with twice since our trip and another friend (again who we met on an ABD) who was supposed to travel with us to China but had to cancel at the last minute.  On your own it's just and your family and I think it's nice to meet and mingle with fellow travelers.

While I'm not a huge fan of the Sound of Music it is iconic in North American and Salzburg certainly exploits this interest.  Besides I am always happy to learn new things and there is history intertwined with the musical which must never be forgotten.

Did I have an unpleasant experience on my China trip?  Yes, but it had to do with weather.  Was the situation remedied by ABD when I got back.  You betcha ya.  

Will I travel with ABD again?  Yes, but I am not sure when.  My kids (including my 25 year old son) LOVE everything ABD offers.  

So is it worth the money to me?  Yes.  Without hesitation.


----------



## sayhello

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I think what you might be missing is the challenging logistics of the ABD Central Europe tour.  Getting from Prague to Vienna via Berchesgarten (sp?) would not be easy to do on your own, unless perhaps you were going to rent a car.  I would not be comfortable navigating those roads on my own, though I know there are some who would.
> 
> Also, from what I recall of the tour there were several pieces that were unique or could hard to plan on your own (perhaps due to the remote location i.e. ice cave):
> 
> pretzel making
> salt mine tour
> hike to the ice cave (and subsequent lunch on the mountain)
> 
> garden with the water fountains (sorry I cannot recall the name, but I think we were the only group who got this unique experience)
> dinner at Schonbrun castle zoo -- sorry yours wasn't good; ours was quite good and we were permitted to go into the zoo at leisure until it was too dark to see (yes, it was ours and ours alone -- ABD has no control over traffic in any given city)
> waltzing lesson -- I *may* have been the only in our group who enjoyed this, but it was a highlight of the trip for me.  So much so that attending a Viennese Waltz is now on my bucket list
> 
> getting into the stables at the Spanish Riding School (no others tours were permitted this)
> pictures -- although not part of the tours you get photos from ABD that you aren't going to get anywhere else
> Now could you have done these things on your own?  Perhaps.  Would you have have been with several like-minded travelers who all speak English?  Maybe, maybe not. Would it take more days to do everything ABD does?  Absolutely.  Simply because they are experts at getting everyone from one place to another expeditiously and safely.
> 
> Having done my own tour of London and Paris and Paris, Venice, Florence and Rome I can tell you that it requires extensive planning and an attitude that adapts well to unexpected events.  Things can and do happen and it sure is nice to ABD there to smooth everything out so that (hopefully) no one notices when there is a glitch.  As an example we had at least 1, maybe 2 internal flights in China that were seriously delayed.  All the announcements and postings were in Mandarin and there were people everywhere.  Without our Mandarin-speaking guide I'm not sure if everyone would've made the flight.  We were all given ample money to buy drinks and food (even though we were supposed to be fed on the plane) and also taken to a more comfortable seating area (better than the floor, which was all that was available by the gate).  When boarding time finally arrived, we were all well fed and led to the plane without any kinks.  Our tours in our arrival cities were ready and waiting for us and we didn't miss anything.  In both instances (Chengdu and Xi'an) the hotels kept the dining rooms open for us so we could eat (that included the pizza oven on the buffet at the Ritz Carlton in Chengdu that was just about to close and happily made custom pizzas for anyone in our group who wanted one; all the food on the buffet was freshly made just for us, including the sushi).  There is NO way any of that could have happened if you were traveling on your own.
> 
> I have made friends on an ABD who we have traveled with twice since our trip and another friend (again who we met on an ABD) who was supposed to travel with us to China but had to cancel at the last minute.  On your own it's just and your family and I think it's nice to meet and mingle with fellow travelers.
> 
> While I'm not a huge fan of the Sound of Music it is iconic in North American and Salzburg certainly exploits this interest.  Besides I am always happy to learn new things and there is history intertwined with the musical which must never be forgotten.
> 
> Did I have an unpleasant experience on my China trip?  Yes, but it had to do with weather.  Was the situation remedied by ABD when I got back.  You betcha ya.
> 
> Will I travel with ABD again?  Yes, but I am not sure when.  My kids (including my 25 year old son) LOVE everything ABD offers.
> 
> So is it worth the money to me?  Yes.  Without hesitation.


I wish there was a "Love" button on the DIS.    You worded this just perfectly!  

Sayhello


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## lilmissfoodie

Just completed my 1st ABD trip. I can definitely say if you can afford it, it's worth every penny. I'll do a trip report soon.


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## EllinK

lilmissfoodie said:


> Just completed my 1st ABD trip. I can definitely say if you can afford it, it's worth every penny. I'll do a trip report soon.



Great! Where did you go?


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## lilmissfoodie

EllinK said:


> Great! Where did you go?



Backstage Magic...SoCal


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## thingamabobs885

Is it worth it?


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## thingamabobs885

I'm going to be cruising June 2018 and I wanted to add on an Adventures by Disney tour. The tour is more expensive than the cruise!  For less time.


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## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

thingamabobs885 said:


> Is it worth it?



Depends on who you ask. In my opinion and based on my own personal experience with the company, no. We did not receive the value for the amount we paid on our last ABD and Disney certainly did not provide us with the Disney customer service they are known for, not while we were on the trip and certainly not after. We had an issue on the trip, that the guides failed to address as it was actually caused by the guides and when brought to ABD's attention upon our return, their response was basically "too bad, so sad, suck it up and deal with it."


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## thingamabobs885

. Thank you.  It is so expensive compared to traditional travel group/agency.  I think I'll save the money and use it for a future Disney cruise.


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## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

thingamabobs885 said:


> . Thank you.  It is so expensive compared to traditional travel group/agency.  I think I'll save the money and use it for a future Disney cruise.



You're welcome. We travel with a different tour company that we find offers the quality for the high price. We just got back from a trip and it was worth every single penny. We are booking our 2018 trip as we speak. Just waiting for them to get back to us with a final itinerary and booking forms as it's a private itinerary for just me and my mom. This company does larger group (25 max), smaller group (16 max) active trips and private group travel.


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## sayhello

thingamabobs885 said:


> . Thank you.  It is so expensive compared to traditional travel group/agency.  I think I'll save the money and use it for a future Disney cruise.


I don't know if you've looked at the price for comparable DCL excursions, but it actually isn't that much more expensive when you compare apples to apples.  You have to check on a cruise by cruise basis.  I did the ABD add-on to a 12-night Med cruise, and found it TOTALLY worth the money.  It really depends on what you are looking for.  I loved the continuity of doing the excursions with the same folks and the same Guides every day.  We were first off the ship, and got a head start on most of the DCL excursions. And they'd have twice as many people on their buses.  We did the equivalent of 2 or 3 excursions per day, since we didn't have to worry about going back to the ship to catch the next one.  And lunch was included every day off the ship. 

PLUS (and this is a huge plus) we had ABD Adventure Guides every day.  They are fabulous.  They also had the option to add things to the excursions (we had extra time in Nice, and they took us to Eze.)  That would never happen with DCL excursions.

We also got nice shipboard amenities, such as free water in our cabins, a free photo CD from Shutters (plus the photos taken by the Adventure Guides) an included dinner at Palo, etc.   I took my add-on a back when they first offered them, so it was not quite as expensive, and the offerings may have changed.  But I'd do it again in a heartbeat if it was ever offered on a cruise I did.  "Worth it" is such a subjective thing.  It *is* expensive.  Nothing about ABD is NOT expensive.  But I felt it was worth it.  You'll need to do your own research to see if it's worth it to you.

If you're looking for the cheapest way to do cruise excursions, then yes, ABD probably won't be a good choice for you.  But if you're looking for a quality experience, it's worth looking at.

Sayhello


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## sayhello

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> Depends on who you ask. In my opinion and based on my own personal experience with the company, no. We did not receive the value for the amount we paid on our last ABD and Disney certainly did not provide us with the Disney customer service they are known for, not while we were on the trip and certainly not after. We had an issue on the trip, that the guides failed to address as it was actually caused by the guides and when brought to ABD's attention upon our return, their response was basically "too bad, so sad, suck it up and deal with it."


I didn't realize you'd done a DCL cruise add-on.  Which one did you do?

Sayhello


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## calypso726

thingamabobs885 said:


> Is it worth it?





Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> Depends on who you ask. In my opinion and based on my own personal experience with the company, no. We did not receive the value for the amount we paid on our last ABD and Disney certainly did not provide us with the Disney customer service they are known for, not while we were on the trip and certainly not after. We had an issue on the trip, that the guides failed to address as it was actually caused by the guides and when brought to ABD's attention upon our return, their response was basically "too bad, so sad, suck it up and deal with it."





thingamabobs885 said:


> . Thank you.  It is so expensive compared to traditional travel group/agency.  I think I'll save the money and use it for a future Disney cruise.



@thingamabobs885 I would say it is worth it. We were in sticker shock over the cost for several years before biting the bullet. We always thought the day we did book one it would be a one time bucket list kind of thing since they are so expensive. This year we will taking our 9th ABD trip. When the ABD add-on was offered for the Norway, Iceland, Scotland cruise in Copenhagen it sold out in mere hours.

My experiences with ABD have been very different from Cinderella's Slipper, even when things have gone wrong so to speak, which is pretty rare. I can think of 2 occasions from my own experiences. The first was actually before our first ABD took place. We booked the Scotland Brave adventure in 2012 for its 2013 inaugural season. The itinerary changed out of the blue and there was a trip report that was less than flattering posted. Many here expressed reluctance to book Scotland after that information came out. Naturally, I freaked out, called, emailed and left voice mails every which way I could think of to anyone and everyone associated with ABD. I received an email and phone call from one of the executives who took the time to explain why some changes were made and basically talk me down from the trees. I shared that information here on the boards and decided to write a live trip report while on our trip in Scotland. Here it is if you care to read through it ( https://www.disboards.com/threads/our-scotland-brave-adventure.3150065 ) I had to admit that the changes that were made were the right call and I actually enjoyed the trip more with those changes. To this day that Scotland trip remains our all time favorite vacation.

The second time was during the very first ABD river cruise last year. An announcement was made by ABD stating what time we all had to meet outside for our excursions the next day. I am very punctual with borderline OCD tendencies about being where I am supposed to be at the correct time. In the morning, as we were getting ready another announcement was made by the cruise director and suddenly the time was 15 or 20 minutes earlier. We had to scramble to be on the bus and I was furiously livid. Add to that, no time to drink a cup of coffee and it wasn't a pretty sight. I posted about it here as it was happening and others here also expressed concern. There were executives on our trip and when they realized what had happened, they explained that there was a miscommunication and it wouldn't happen again. It didn't and the river cruise was an amazing vacation as well. I am looking forward to doing another with ABD down the line.

Aside of those two instances every other aspect of my experiences with ABD have been AMAZING! The guides have all been OUTSTANDING! We have been able to do things that we never would have been able to experience had we not been with ABD. Canoeing off of Uruqhart on Loch Ness comes to mind as only ABD is allowed to do that in Scotland. We are already anticipating booking the China ABD when the new dates are released for 2018. That is, if ABD doesn't have some new and exciting offering that we simply "must do" first year out.

Now, I don't expect any company to get everything right 100% of the time for every guest. I expect inaugural trips and seasons to have a few kinks and require adjustments. I am willing to deal with those when it comes to ABD and DCL.  I won't deal with that when it comes to HP at Universal, WDW and DLR. If a new attraction comes out I won't make a special trip to experience it. I will wait a year while they work the kinks out. I wouldn't write off the entire idea of ABD based on one person's bad experience. When I plan our own trips I take the time to review things on TripAdvisor before making a decision. I read the both the bad and the good and take both into context before deciding. I never write off an experience based on a few bad reviews. If I did, I'd likely never experience anything.  I let the reviews give me a level playing field of where to set my expectations and go from there.

So, is it worth it. I say yes, as do a whole lot of people on this forum that represent a very small sector of repeat ABD guests. But, we are the easiest group to find online and the most vocal about our experiences with ABD. I hope this helps you and anyone else reading the thread and trying to decide


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## lilmissfoodie

To reiterate what calypso said, no one will everything correct 100% of the time for everyone but ABD comes mighty close. On my backstage magic tour literally half of the people had taken that exact tour before. You'll find the even on the same itinerary that every trip is not the same (it's not uncoommon for ABD to switch things as they learn and sometimes stuff happens). There were a few that had taken over 10 ABD trips. Both those things and my personal experience tell me it IS worth it to very many. Now based on your reaction to a single post with no backup information, it sounded to me like you were looking for a reason not to go. Many have said it's not for everyone. All have said it is pricey. Now when I walk around DLR I get stopped every once in a while by an ABD guide (I carry my ABD backpack each time) and we end up chatting for a while . They're all so enthusiastic and want to hear my experiences. Funny thing is each one knows my guides (Summer-Rose who's extremely knowledgeable and Michael Rodriguez who's, imo, the greatest Disney CM period - he was a finalist for ambassador). I was just st Food and Wine at DCA and Rhiannon stopped to talk to us (ended up over half an hr) since she's new and had only done two so far but just was so excited to talk to us. This is what ABD guides are like. Again, do as you choose but I highly recommend ABD. It was a big stretch for my family to go on one but we will be back, probably to Italy.


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## AquamarineSteph

thingamabobs885 said:


> Is it worth it?



I've never done a cruise, so obviously I've never done a cruise add-on tour.  I have now traveled with four different travel companies, including ABD.  What I find to be most helpful when determining how much to spend is take a good look at where I'm going and what's on my MUST SEE THIS list.  Then I'll start comparing options based on what I want to do and see.  Part of my test is asking myself - Will I be heartbroken if I visit this place and don't see this thing/do this thing?  Is this maybe the only time I'll be in this country/seeing this site?  If the answer is yes to either of those questions, then I'll see which tour looks like it offers the best experience of that must do item on my list for the best cost.  

Sometimes the best experience is with ABD.  They do not offer the tour we took in Italy any longer, but so help me, that tour will always remain of the most incredible experiences of my life.  We did the weekend tour in San Francisco.  I'd visited the city before, but I'd never toured it like we did with ABD.  It was an incredible tour and only made me fall that much more in love with the city.

We've also had a negative experience with ABD.  Things happen no matter where you are, but I feel that ABD addressed the situation to my complete satisfaction.  In fact, they went above and beyond what I expected.  It convinced me to book with them again, and we have another ABD trip coming up this summer.

So bottom line for me is always where I'm going, what I MUST see/do, and who looks like they deliver the best version of that experience.   For me, if two tours looked about equal in providing me with the tour experiences I want in a given location, I will probably always default to going with ABD.


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## Cousin Orville

thingamabobs885 said:


> I'm going to be cruising June 2018 and I wanted to add on an Adventures by Disney tour. The tour is more expensive than the cruise!  For less time.



ABD is worth it.  I've done 8, and they've all been wonderful.

As was mentioned earlier, cruise vs ABD prices even out a bit when factoring in shore excursions.  I've been fortunate to have done several Disney cruises (usually in the Med/N. Europe) and ABDs.  ABD wins hands down.  I still love the cruises - we have one going to Iceland in June, but these DCL cruises have gotten a LOT more expensive over the last 7 yrs.  I think this will be our last DCL European cruise.  Ultimately as someone with young children, I think the cruises are best for families with kids up to 5-6 yrs old.  After about 6-7yrs old, ABD is the way to go if you can.


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## calypso726

AquamarineSteph said:


> I've never done a cruise, so obviously I've never done a cruise add-on tour.  I have now traveled with four different travel companies, including ABD.  What I find to be most helpful when determining how much to spend is take a good look at where I'm going and what's on my *MUST SEE THIS list.*  Then I'll start comparing options based on what I want to do and see.  Part of my test is asking myself - *Will I be heartbroken if I visit this place and don't see this thing/do this thing?*  Is this maybe the only time I'll be in this country/seeing this site?  If the answer is yes to either of those questions, then I'll see which tour looks like it offers the best experience of that must do item on my list for the best cost.
> 
> Sometimes the best experience is with ABD.  They do not offer the tour we took in Italy any longer, but so help me, that tour will always remain of the most incredible experiences of my life.  We did the weekend tour in San Francisco.  I'd visited the city before, but I'd never toured it like we did with ABD.  It was an incredible tour and only made me fall that much more in love with the city.
> 
> We've also had a negative experience with ABD.  Things happen no matter where you are, but I feel that ABD addressed the situation to my complete satisfaction.  In fact, they went above and beyond what I expected.  It convinced me to book with them again, and we have another ABD trip coming up this summer.
> 
> So bottom line for me is always where I'm going, what I MUST see/do, and who looks like they deliver the best version of that experience.   For me, if two tours looked about equal in providing me with the tour experiences I want in a given location, I will probably always default to going with ABD.



THIS. I have also found that sometimes ABD will cover all of my must do items and if a couple are not covered they can be accomplished with a pre or post day or during the OYO time. For the Scotland trip it was attending the Military Tattoo, Staying at Witchery by the Castle and climbing King Arthur's Seat. Did the first two during our pre night stays and the latter on welcome day. For NY it was a couple of musicals besides Aladdin, eating at Sardi's and the Russian Tea Room. We did the former the day before and the latter during OYO time. London/Paris it was HP studios and Disneyland Paris. The former we did during OYO time and the latter as a post stay. The ABD add-on in Copenhagen for the Norway, Iceland, Scotland DCL cruise it was dining at Noma and we managed to get reservations for the OYO evening. Anyhow, the point is, even when some of the must do's are not covered by ABD, we are able to make it work.


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## sanwheels

ABD is my dream. We have done 8 Disney cruises so this is definitely on my bucket list. Thanks for so much great info!


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## Miss SD

I'd agree that the guides are a huge part of determining whether an adventure is worth the price. I've taken six adventures and had substandard guides on just one of them--the aforementioned Scotland tour of 2013. I don't want to go into that drama again, but it seemed to us (and many of our fellow adventurers) that our guides were burned out. Since this was a brand-new adventure, they'd just spent weeks corralling Disney executives and reporters on press junkets, and now they were in charge of mostly contest winners, many of whom, honestly, didn't seem comfortable in a group travel setting. The guides were snippy and appeared to have checked out for the week. I'm happy the guides on the subsequent Scotland adventures in 2013 were awesome. Ours, unfortunately, were not.

In contrast, our Germany guides (Nadine and Daniel) were fabulous. It's been five years since we took that adventure and DH and I still talk about how efficient and fun they were. And every BSM guide we've had (four BSMs and counting) have been wonderful! I hope we have Michael and Summer Rose on our upcoming July BSM. (Summer Rose is an alumna of DD's high school, and they bonded over that fact on our 2014 trip.) We thought the expertise of the Germany and BSM guides was well worth the money.

And the itineraries of the adventures we've been on (Scotland, Germany, BSM) have been terrific. I wouldn't have been able to come up with such cool activities for the Scotland and Germany trips on my own, and, well, only Disney can provide the backstage access of the BSM adventure. 

Overall, I think our Germany and BSM adventures provided an excellent value. I can't say the same about our Scotland tour, but most of the posters on this board have a different opinion. That said, one bad experience hasn't driven me away from ABD. Really looking forward to our July trip with the DIS Unplugged crew!


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## SingingMom

Miss SD said:


> I'd agree that the guides are a huge part of determining whether an adventure is worth the price. I've taken six adventures and had substandard guides on just one of them--the aforementioned Scotland tour of 2013. I don't want to go into that drama again, but it seemed to us (and many of our fellow adventurers) that our guides were burned out. Since this was a brand-new adventure, they'd just spent weeks corralling Disney executives and reporters on press junkets, and now they were in charge of mostly contest winners, many of whom, honestly, didn't seem comfortable in a group travel setting. The guides were snippy and appeared to have checked out for the week. I'm happy the guides on the subsequent Scotland adventures in 2013 were awesome. Ours, unfortunately, were not.
> 
> In contrast, our Germany guides (Nadine and Daniel) were fabulous. It's been five years since we took that adventure and DH and I still talk about how efficient and fun they were. And every BSM guide we've had (four BSMs and counting) have been wonderful! I hope we have Michael and Summer Rose on our upcoming July BSM. (Summer Rose is an alumna of DD's high school, and they bonded over that fact on our 2014 trip.) We thought the expertise of the Germany and BSM guides was well worth the money.
> 
> And the itineraries of the adventures we've been on (Scotland, Germany, BSM) have been terrific. I wouldn't have been able to come up with such cool activities for the Scotland and Germany trips on my own, and, well, only Disney can provide the backstage access of the BSM adventure.
> 
> Overall, I think our Germany and BSM adventures provided an excellent value. I can't say the same about our Scotland tour, but most of the posters on this board have a different opinion. That said, one bad experience hasn't driven me away from ABD. Really looking forward to our July trip with the DIS Unplugged crew!


I agree the Guides can make or break a wonderful experience.  We have been very fortunate that we've had fantastic guides.  So much so that most are now "honorary family members"!  They work very hard.   VERY HARD.  Our DD is hoping to become an ABD guide in the future!


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## wanderlust7

Wondering has anyone ever estimated the broken down cost of what you get with an ABD?  So - $X worth for the hotels, $X for the meals, $X for the activities, $X for the guides?

The first time I saw the price for an ABD my eyes bugged out.    But the more I read on here (very helpful for planning DIY trips ), the more I think maybe one day....  I like how the kids form their own group and do kid friendly activities while the adults tour something else.


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## calypso726

wanderlust7 said:


> Wondering has anyone ever estimated the broken down cost of what you get with an ABD?  So - $X worth for the hotels, $X for the meals, $X for the activities, $X for the guides?
> 
> The first time I saw the price for an ABD my eyes bugged out.    But the more I read on here (very helpful for planning DIY trips ), the more I think maybe one day....  I like how the kids form their own group and do kid friendly activities while the adults tour something else.



I know several have tried to break down the cost of doing and ABD vs the same itinerary on their own. Until you've actually experienced one it is hard to understand and justify the cost. I was in the same boat with eyes bugging out on the price too  but that was 9 ABDs ago  I would say in most cases you can probably experience the same hotels and the same or similar places on an itinerary for less out of pocket but you still would not be comparing apples to apples with regards to the experience itself.

There are a number of intangibles that you simply can't put a price on except for what they may be worth to you. I've found most itineraries will include an experience that I would have never thought to do and wasn't really interested in experiencing but wound up being a highlight of the trip. I can't put a price on bringing something to the table that I would have never done but somehow made my vacation experience all the more meaningful and complete. Then there are the experiences that you can only get with ABD. Launching canoes off Urquhart Castle into Loch Ness for example. No one else is allowed to do that in Scotland. Other itineraries have their own unique ABD only experiences. In Italy we were allowed to take pictures INSIDE the Sistine Chapel. Now that is never a guarantee on the itinerary and is more luck of the draw, but I guarantee it never would have happened if I went on my own.

All guides are not created equal and I find ABD guides have their own intangible quality when it comes to the experience too. They add a great deal to the experience.

There is something to be said for not having to concern yourself with logistics or what to do when/if something goes wrong. There is value in not having to plan or stress about anything and just show up. After being blown away by the experience of my first ABD I got over the sticker shock pretty quickly and came to realize I'm getting what I paid for and then some. So now, it's just part of the vacation budget and we've cut out other things to afford it because we'd prefer to spend the money on our ABD trips. This is coming from someone with no kids that does both the family and adult only trips. I imagine if I had kids ABD would have even more intangible value to me just from listening to and watching the families on the trips. Hope this helps.


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## acndis

We are so firmly back in the ABD/guided travel camp after our trip to Alaska and then 5 on your own days in Canada.  We spent a fortune on our own (much more than I budgeted) and though we had a complete blast and loved every minute of it, we won't do it again.  My son has really been wanting to go to Washington DC which is a destination that you could easily do on your own for less.  However, we will be booking the ABD next year.  Logistics, unexpected expenses, tips, BREAKFAST etc. etc. etc. just have me watching my wallet EVERY minute when we are on our own.  With the ABD, I was relaxed and got to enjoy the destination.  ABD is a big upfront expense but is more than worth it for our family!


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## Jess_S

wanderlust7 said:


> Wondering has anyone ever estimated the broken down cost of what you get with an ABD?  So - $X worth for the hotels, $X for the meals, $X for the activities, $X for the guides?
> 
> The first time I saw the price for an ABD my eyes bugged out.    But the more I read on here (very helpful for planning DIY trips ), the more I think maybe one day....  I like how the kids form their own group and do kid friendly activities while the adults tour something else.



I did a breakdown of sorts for the ABD that I booked for next year. The hotel expense alone ate up all but $1000 of the expense for one person in our party. After that I estimated cost for the included meals, transportation and guides based upon what we had paid for our last on your own trip to Costa Rica. My conclusion was that we were paying about a $4000 premium (total for 3 people) to travel with ABD vs. on our own. I don't know if this will be worth it for us or not yet. But I do know that we spend a lot of time on any trip trying to keep our son happy -- which is the opposite of relaxing. So if the ABD environment is more stimulating for him and DH and I are able to relax and enjoy the sites more, then it will be worth it. 

My secondary conclusion is that ABD is actually a pretty solid value for parties of 2 because, as I said, the hotel cost alone ate up most of the first traveler's ABD fee. It seems to me like a lot of ABD's profit must be based upon larger parties where they are putting 3 or 4 in the same hotel room.


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## sayhello

Jess_S said:


> My secondary conclusion is that ABD is actually a pretty solid value for parties of 2 because, as I said, the hotel cost alone ate up most of the first traveler's ABD fee. It seems to me like a lot of ABD's profit must be based upon larger parties where they are putting 3 or 4 in the same hotel room.


I'm pretty sure ABD has specially negotiated prices for those hotel rooms that you, as an individual, can't get.  I wasn't able to book a second pre-day in Iceland through ABD, so I imagine the hotel only gave them a certain allotment.  

Sayhello


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## wanderlust7

Jess_S said:


> I did a breakdown of sorts for the ABD that I booked for next year. The hotel expense alone ate up all but $1000 of the expense for one person in our party. After that I estimated cost for the included meals, transportation and guides based upon what we had paid for our last on your own trip to Costa Rica. My conclusion was that we were paying about a $4000 premium (total for 3 people) to travel with ABD vs. on our own. I don't know if this will be worth it for us or not yet. But I do know that we spend a lot of time on any trip trying to keep our son happy -- which is the opposite of relaxing. So if the ABD environment is more stimulating for him and DH and I are able to relax and enjoy the sites more, then it will be worth it.
> 
> My secondary conclusion is that ABD is actually a pretty solid value for parties of 2 because, as I said, the hotel cost alone ate up most of the first traveler's ABD fee. It seems to me like a lot of ABD's profit must be based upon larger parties where they are putting 3 or 4 in the same hotel room.



Would you mind sharing the details of your calculations?

We would be 2 adults and 2 kids and I was wondering about being put in one room.  If we wanted more space - would we be able to get 2 rooms (1 adult, 1 child in each) , and it would be the same cost?

I was trying to do my own guesstimate based on the Scotland ABD as an example - only because I was stealing ideas from there.    To make it easy, I used 2 adults - cost would be $12000.  Hotels I was guessing $500/night, so comes out to $3500.  Meals I was guessing $20 breakfast, $30 lunch, $50 dinner per person - comes out to just under $1000.  Is that reasonable?  So that leaves $470/person per day for the guides, activities, and the intangibles.

I would love feedback on that.  I think I need numbers to justify it to myself - even if it means using some fuzzy Disney math.


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## aggiedog

Regarding 3-4/room, you pay the same per adult/child, regardless of how many you put in the room.  So in a way, you're getting more bang for your buck by only doing 2 people/room.  Also, from what I've read, the 3rd person (can you even do 4 often?) is usually just a cot in the room.  That would not make me happy after paying that much money.

We are a family of 6.  I've looked into as many configurations as possible.  The rate limiting step is that there needs to be an adult booked into each room.


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## SingingMom

calypso726 said:


> All guides are not created equal and I find *ABD guides have their own intangible quality* when it comes to the experience too. They add a great deal to the experience.
> 
> *There is something to be said for not having to concern yourself with logistics or what to do when/if something goes wrong. There is value in not having to plan or stress about anything and just show up.* After being blown away by the experience of my first ABD I got over the sticker shock pretty quickly and came to realize I'm getting what I paid for and then some. So now, it's just part of the vacation budget and we've cut out other things to afford it because we'd prefer to spend the money on our ABD trips. This is coming from someone with no kids that does both the family and adult only trips. I imagine if I had kids ABD would have even more intangible value to me just from listening to and watching the families on the trips. Hope this helps.



THIS THIS THIS!!!    
Two specific things that make ABD trips "worth" it for us are:
1. Staying in 5 star accommodations that we might not ourselves be able to book or afford at "non-Disney" negotiated prices.
2. The luxury coach/train/plane transportation that gets you from point a to point b, c, d, and e.  I can't imagine trying to figure out how to get to certain attractions/locations on our own. It's SO stress free to just "follow the guides instructions".  lol


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## Jess_S

wanderlust7 said:


> Would you mind sharing the details of your calculations?
> 
> We would be 2 adults and 2 kids and I was wondering about being put in one room.  If we wanted more space - would we be able to get 2 rooms (1 adult, 1 child in each) , and it would be the same cost?
> 
> I was trying to do my own guesstimate based on the Scotland ABD as an example - only because I was stealing ideas from there.    To make it easy, I used 2 adults - cost would be $12000.  Hotels I was guessing $500/night, so comes out to $3500.  Meals I was guessing $20 breakfast, $30 lunch, $50 dinner per person - comes out to just under $1000.  Is that reasonable?  So that leaves $470/person per day for the guides, activities, and the intangibles.
> 
> I would love feedback on that.  I think I need numbers to justify it to myself - even if it means using some fuzzy Disney math.



The first thing you need to know about my calculations is that we did receive the early booking discount from ABD, an early booking discount from DU and I also picked the cheapest week for the trip because I had that flexibility since my son is a preschooler. We're paying about $4900 per person.

The rack rate for the hotels actually was pretty close to $500 per night once I converted the price from pounds to dollars. I looked at the breakfast buffet price at the restaurants and added that per person cost to the room rate since we get breakfast every day. (After converting to dollars from pounds, it was basically $30 per person). At this point, we're at $600 per day for hotel and breakfast. That works out to $4200 for those two items for the week. 

As I said, I used our food, transport and guide costs from past trips to estimate. It's not a perfect comparison, because we hired private drivers and guides. But if we weren't doing ABD, I would have hired private drivers and guides because I don't like being herded around. So for me, it's a close enough comparison. So guides and drivers we hired charged about $200 per half day (if I assume $200 pounds, then that's $265 per half day for each of those). So that's another $3710 if we assume we're using the services of a driver and guide every day.  (In Scotland, we pretty much are). I'm not going to add in the cost of the additional guides because I wouldn't have booked a second guide if it was just my family.

So room, breakfast, guides and driver = $7900. Then there's the included lunches, dinners and activities and the airport transfer. That got me over $10,000 -- meaning that the cost of the intangible Disney magic worked out to be about $4000.

Really, none of this is a perfect comparison because if we did this trip on our own, we would fewer activities and we wouldn't hire a guide and driver every day. So we would have gone to Scotland for cheaper, but we wouldn't have done all the things that we're going to do with ABD. I will report back in June about whether we think the trip was worth it. It will depend entirely on whether my husband is happy because he's the one that has complained that he can't relax while traveling with our son.


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## wanderlust7

Jess_S said:


> The first thing you need to know about my calculations is that we did receive the early booking discount from ABD, an early booking discount from DU and I also picked the cheapest week for the trip because I had that flexibility since my son is a preschooler. We're paying about $4900 per person.
> 
> The rack rate for the hotels actually was pretty close to $500 per night once I converted the price from pounds to dollars. I looked at the breakfast buffet price at the restaurants and added that per person cost to the room rate since we get breakfast every day. (After converting to dollars from pounds, it was basically $30 per person). At this point, we're at $600 per day for hotel and breakfast. That works out to $4200 for those two items for the week.
> 
> As I said, I used our food, transport and guide costs from past trips to estimate. It's not a perfect comparison, because we hired private drivers and guides. But if we weren't doing ABD, I would have hired private drivers and guides because I don't like being herded around. So for me, it's a close enough comparison. So guides and drivers we hired charged about $200 per half day (if I assume $200 pounds, then that's $265 per half day for each of those). So that's another $3710 if we assume we're using the services of a driver and guide every day.  (In Scotland, we pretty much are). I'm not going to add in the cost of the additional guides because I wouldn't have booked a second guide if it was just my family.
> 
> So room, breakfast, guides and driver = $7900. Then there's the included lunches, dinners and activities and the airport transfer. That got me over $10,000 -- meaning that the cost of the intangible Disney magic worked out to be about $4000.
> 
> Really, none of this is a perfect comparison because if we did this trip on our own, we would fewer activities and we wouldn't hire a guide and driver every day. So we would have gone to Scotland for cheaper, but we wouldn't have done all the things that we're going to do with ABD. I will report back in June about whether we think the trip was worth it. It will depend entirely on whether my husband is happy because he's the one that has complained that he can't relax while traveling with our son.



Thank you!  That was super helpful.


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## TheRustyScupper

sayhello said:


> "Is Adventures by Disney worth the $$$?"



1) ONLY if you are a Disneyphile.
2) For the most part, tours take you the same places.
3) And, we have been on many of tours.
4) TO us, an ABD tour does not hold enough value for the added cost versus other tours . . . it is like throwing away too much money for little added benefit.
5) The extra expense could almost pay for another vacation for the family.


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## sayhello

TheRustyScupper said:


> 1) ONLY if you are a Disneyphile.


Um, no.  I'm not a "Disneyphile".  I greatly appreciate Disney and what they do, but it's because of the quality I've experienced from them.  But I've only done 2 Disney cruises, and that's only because friends were doing it, or for the ABD.  I haven't been to WDW in a few years.  You don't have to be a Disneyphile to appreciate quality.  ABD's are not "Disneyfied".  You aren't traveling with Mickey and Minnie.  You *are* traveling with the quality and expertise of "the Mouse".  I just really think you're wrong on that point.

Sayhello


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## Boston Tiger

TheRustyScupper said:


> 1) ONLY if you are a Disneyphile.
> 2) For the most part, tours take you the same places.
> 3) And, we have been on many of tours.
> 4) TO us, an ABD tour does not hold enough value for the added cost versus other tours . . . it is like throwing away too much money for little added benefit.
> 5) The extra expense could almost pay for another vacation for the family.



The cost for our Peru trip wasn't too far off from costs from other top tier providers. There really wasn't much for the die hard Disney fan in our family:  a pin each day, a luggage tag and bag with the Disney logo, the movie night for the kids. 

We could have saved money by going with a lower tier company, but there are trade offs for that. The intangibles are what make the ABD tour special: the kids form a group of their own, and will become best friends by the end of the trip; the adults get plenty of opportunities to bond, and can become like family in a very short time; the Guides will deal with any unexpected surprises so that you don't have to worry about anything. 

The best example of the last on our trip: one of the adults got sick on Machu Picchu day. The guides arranged for him to take a private tour two days later while the rest of us were in Cusco. He would have been SOL if he was touring on his own or with a lower end group.


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## calypso726

TheRustyScupper said:


> 1) ONLY if you are a Disneyphile.
> 2) For the most part, tours take you the same places.
> 3) And, we have been on many of tours.
> 4) TO us, an ABD tour does not hold enough value for the added cost versus other tours . . . it is like throwing away too much money for little added benefit.
> 5) The extra expense could almost pay for another vacation for the family.



1) No, that is incorrect as the only Disneyeque aspect of ABD is quality and safety. Disneyphiles appreciate Disney and the ABD trips are not Disneyfied.

2) Some of the places. On many tours there are places and experiences that are exclusively done with ABD and you can’t do on your own or with a different company.

3) Were any of them ABD tours? Not all tours are created equal. I've stayed at many hotels and resorts and I've dined at many restaurants. None the less, I will concede that there is a vast difference between staying at Holiday Inn compared to staying at Ashford Castle. I've enjoyed both types of stays but the experience was vastly different as was the cost. The difference in quality of food, service and experience is different between Cheesecake Factory and Joel Robuchon and so is the price.

4) That is a fair point as value is subjective. Personally, I find the added benefit to be great not little. My SIL and BIL went to Italy on their own a few years before we did last month with ABD. They spent 5 hours in a line to get inside the Basilica. We were in line just long enough to take photos before getting inside. They saw the Sistine Chapel with throngs of other people, crowded and prohibited from taking pictures. We had a private after hours tour of the Sistine Chapel and have tons of pictures from inside. I could go on but the point is, I know their trip was less expensive and I know they loved their vacation to Italy. I still prefer the trip I did. It was so good, I'd actually do it again with ABD if I didn't have so many other trips I'd like to do.

5) Another fair and valid point. Which is why I will also do vacations outside of ABD too.


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## SingingMom

TheRustyScupper said:


> 1) ONLY if you are a Disneyphile.
> *2) For the most part, tours take you the same places.*
> 3) And, we have been on many of tours.
> 4) TO us, an ABD tour does not hold enough value for the added cost versus other tours . . . it is like throwing away too much money for little added benefit.
> 5) The extra expense could almost pay for another vacation for the family.



  Full disclosure- DD is a CM.  But we've been traveling with ABD before that. (ABD is actually the REASON she is now a CM! )

Same places, maybe.  Same *"EXPERIENCE*"?? * No WAY!  *
Eiffel Tower, Versailles, and Louvre entrance - no lines.  Private Flamenco lesson and performance in Spain - with Museum closing for private dinner.  Dancing like Liesl INSIDE The Sound of Music's gazebo.  A night in a real German castle.  A private double decker London bus tour.  First class on the Eurostar without worrying about luggage...

The ATTENTION and care given by the ABD Guides are second to none.  I just can't agree that it is "little added benefit" for the money.  

Each family has to decide what is best for them.  For us - ABD is our choice!


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## CaliforniaGirl09

I am the farthest thing from a Disney Pollyanna, and I am very careful about my vacation spending. I am willing to spend $ for luxury or VIP experiences, but I still want to see value. I've been an ABD cheerleader at times, but I will also call them out when I think it is deserved. For example, you can search for my posts when they mucked with the Alaska Add-on itinerary and removed much of the concrete "value" of that experience, and also with the Baltic Add-on, which I enjoyed but felt as if the huge premium was not worth it *at all* in terms of the experiences received. That is the only ABD I felt as if I'd way overspent on a trip. I also questioned the value left in the Scotland itinerary when they eliminated the Lewis day and made other (in my opinion) not so great changes. 

But--and this is a big but--when ABD is on, I think they are absolutely worth the cost of admission for those who can afford it and are looking for a more upscale vacation experience. Two of the trips that I've taken (Scotland the first year they ran it, and China last summer) have been the top two vacations we've ever taken and have made irreplaceable memories for us as a family. 

It's like getting a box at a concert or sporting game versus sitting in the bleachers. You can enjoy the event from either place, but the experiences can be vastly different. Some people might prefer the experience from the bleachers--I know i did when I was young and loved being in a raucous crowd--and others might prefer the catered slightly removed pampered experience of the box. Neither is right or wrong, and to characterize a box as a waste of money simply because you can get in the game for much less is a very narrow way of looking at something and frankly, not helpful to someone who is considering an upscale product, which is what ABD is. 

So for those looking for feedback on ABD trips and whether they are worth it, if you are looking for an upscale group travel experience then IMO yes, with the caveat that you want to look at the itinerary very closely and see what type of experiences a particular trip is offering. I look at the cost of the hotels, the number of meals included, the quality of the restaurants, the interior travel involved, and any advertised VIP access. For the ABD Baltic trip, I did this pre-analysis and assumed there would be other "special" experiences that weren't on the itinerary. That did not happen so now I do not assume VIP access unless it is advertised or I have read spoiler trip reports. 

Actually, I think trip reports are a fabulous resource to get a sense of ABD trips and to see whether they might by "worth it" for your family. Raw number calculations are only part of the picture--only you can fill in how much of a premium you are willing to pay for the gap. I definitely thing there are some trips that leave a bigger profit margin for Disney, and whether that trip is worth it I imagine varies greatly from family to family. There were quite a few people who loved the ABD Baltic Add-on and thought it was worth it to them not to have to plan any excursions and have everything taken care of. They were willing to pay more for that than me. I was upset because in addition to the cattle call # of people on the trip, I felt like I could have had a much better experience doing it on my own with DCL excursions or through private tour operators.

Personally, I don't mind ABD making a profit, but I look for a small gap between the tangible costs (hotel, meals, tickets, transportation, etc) and the other unquantifiable experiences (i.e. the Disney premium). For me hassle value is part of that premium. For example, the England/France trip isn't one I'd ever do because I go to England frequently and have been to France a number of times as well. Both place are very easy to get around, and I'd rather stay at other hotels. The premium over doing it myself is too big to make it worth it for me. But for something like China, the numbers worked out much better. There were five--FIVE--interior flights. We stayed at 5 and 6 star hotels, which are the type of places I would have stayed on my own. We had VIP access to the Disney Parks in Hong Kong and Shanghai. A lot of meals were included, including some great restaurants. They were there to help navigate a place where English can be nonexistent and the culture is very different. The overall itinerary was fantastic and couldn't be easily replicated on our own due to the logistics involved. It was a first class experience from beginning to end and worth every penny. That being said, I signed up the first day and received a travel agent discount that helped with that calculation. 

Could we have spent less money? Absolutely. But it would have been a very different trip, and we wouldn't have had dinner at Club 33 in Shanghai while watching the fireworks over the castle from the best vantage in the park.

My advice for people trying to make this calculation:
--ballpark hotel costs, meal costs, tickets, transportation costs and make sure they are the type of accommodation you would choose or want
--look for special/unique eperiences and whether there are any VIP type of experiences. How much are those worth to you?
--how much moving around is involved? Is there a language barrier to consider? How comfortable are you going to be doing it on your own?
--read trip reports to get a better idea of overall trip and experiences
--what are other companies offering and prices? Can you do it on your own? 
--What is the opening day price of the ABD trip and are you getting any discounts? Because of the dynamic pricing structure, I think booking late makes that premium much harder to justify. I wouldn't do a trip where I knew I was spending thousands more than someone who booked before I did. 
--Potential number of travelers. This is the biggest negative for me with ABD. I don't want to do any trips with more than 35 anymore. 15-25 is ideal. That means booking a trip that is less popular at an unpopular time, has lesser max numbers, or booking last minute. 
--Is the trip guaranteed? Another huge negative with ABD. I would not book a trip unless it was guaranteed or I had another trip I could transfer the deposit to.

My $.02


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## acndis

One thing that has not been mentioned that is truly one of the biggest sellers of ABD for me is the wonderful people who go on these adventures.  (I am sure it is similar on Tauck and some of the other tour providers we have all mentioned).  I am not a group travel person and I have absolutely loved getting to meet our fellow adventurers.  My son has made some wonderful friends and my husband and I have loved meeting other folks on our journeys.  We keep in touch with at least one family from every trip!  That's more social than I am at home!  The quality of the group is something that's guaranteed on ABD (although I am not sure why but I am not questioning it).  Everyone on all of our adventures has been on time, enthusiastic, and supportive.  Doing things as a group is what makes it fun.  When you are on your own, you don't have that comradery. And, the adventurers are a diverse group of people from all over the world.  I don't think this is something you can put a price on, either.


----------



## SingingMom

acndis said:


> One thing that has not been mentioned that is truly one of the biggest sellers of ABD for me is the wonderful people who go on these adventures.  (I am sure it is similar on Tauck and some of the other tour providers we have all mentioned).  I am not a group travel person and I have absolutely loved getting to meet our fellow adventurers.  My son has made some wonderful friends and my husband and I have loved meeting other folks on our journeys.  We keep in touch with at least one family from every trip!  That's more social than I am at home!  The quality of the group is something that's guaranteed on ABD (although I am not sure why but I am not questioning it).  Everyone on all of our adventures has been on time, enthusiastic, and supportive.  Doing things as a group is what makes it fun.  When you are on your own, you don't have that comradery. And, the adventurers are a diverse group of people from all over the world.  I don't think this is something you can put a price on, either.



I can't begin to gush enough about this post.  lol  We have made lifelong friends on each of our ABDS.  Our first guides are the reason DD is a Disney CM.  Friends from two different trips traveled to celebrate DD's college graduation with us.  A number of families have visited DD on their vacations to WDW and taken her to dinner.  They all call her their "Disney Daughter".  We have wonderful friends from all parts of the country and in Europe now.  I can't imagine our lives without the addition of these wonderful people - and ABD was the reason.


----------



## OhanaCuz

One thing that blew my mind getting to know people on our trip was how odd it was that we were first timers.  Almost every single person we talked to was a repeat ABD customer.  Some people were even in the double digits for the number of ABDs that they had taken.  That really impressed me.


----------



## RSM

SingingMom said:


> I can't begin to gush enough about this post.  lol  We have made lifelong friends on each of our ABDS.  Our first guides are the reason DD is a Disney CM.  Friends from two different trips traveled to celebrate DD's college graduation with us.  A number of families have visited DD on their vacations to WDW and taken her to dinner.  They all call her their "Disney Daughter".  We have wonderful friends from all parts of the country and in Europe now.  I can't imagine our lives without the addition of these wonderful people - and ABD was the reason.



In general, I fully agree with this sentiment.  In 4 out of 5 of our trips, our DS has made friends that he still keeps in contact with.  However, I think you should also consider what happens when it doesn't quite go as you envisioned.  On our last ABD, we had this.  Basically, as our DS14 tried to hang with a group of 6 other teens, he was essentially told by one of the other boys, that the teen group is these 3 boys and these 3 girls, and that was it. He should find another group to hang out with.  He had about a 36 hour period of feeling bad, then one morning woke up and said to us that he came to experience Australia first and foremost.  It was disappointing that he wasn't going to become friends with the other teens, but experiencing the country was why we went on the ABD.  So, he hung with us and got to know alot of the other adults.  There were some awkward moments along the way as the guides seemed to cater to the gang of 6, but overall he thoroughly enjoyed the Australia experience.  My point in sharing this, is that you have to know how your child would handle a situation like this.  I know for him, at 14 he was able to rationalize his priority.  If this would have happened on a previous trip when he was 11 or 12, he would have been miserable.  Again, for the most part we have had wonderful groups of kids, but don't always assume it will be that way.  It can be 80% of the time, but be aware of how you would handle that 1 in 5 times where it may not be so great and your child may feel left out.


----------



## sayhello

RSM said:


> In general, I fully agree with this sentiment.  In 4 out of 5 of our trips, our DS has made friends that he still keeps in contact with.  However, I think you should also consider what happens when it doesn't quite go as you envisioned.  On our last ABD, we had this.  Basically, as our DS14 tried to hang with a group of 6 other teens, he was essentially told by one of the other boys, that the teen group is these 3 boys and these 3 girls, and that was it. He should find another group to hang out with.  He had about a 36 hour period of feeling bad, then one morning woke up and said to us that he came to experience Australia first and foremost.  It was disappointing that he wasn't going to become friends with the other teens, but experiencing the country was why we went on the ABD.  So, he hung with us and got to know alot of the other adults.  There were some awkward moments along the way as the guides seemed to cater to the gang of 6, but overall he thoroughly enjoyed the Australia experience.  My point in sharing this, is that you have to know how your child would handle a situation like this.  I know for him, at 14 he was able to rationalize his priority.  If this would have happened on a previous trip when he was 11 or 12, he would have been miserable.  Again, for the most part we have had wonderful groups of kids, but don't always assume it will be that way.  It can be 80% of the time, but be aware of how you would handle that 1 in 5 times where it may not be so great and your child may feel left out.


I'm sorry to hear that, but I'm glad your son was able to figure it out in his head, and deal with it.  Teens can be cruel, and you're right, even ABD is not immune to that.

I'm curious if you ever discussed this with the Guides?  Were they aware he'd been ostracized from the group of 6, and not just choosing to hang with you guys? 

Sayhello


----------



## RSM

sayhello said:


> I'm sorry to hear that, but I'm glad your son was able to figure it out in his head, and deal with it.  Teens can be cruel, and you're right, even ABD is not immune to that.
> 
> I'm curious if you ever discussed this with the Guides?  Were they aware he'd been ostracized from the group of 6, and not just choosing to hang with you guys?
> 
> Sayhello


Didn't overtly discuss with the guides.  At one point, one of the guides asked him to get in a photo with the other 6 and he said something like I don't think they want me in their picture.  They never followed up on the comment.  We dropped a couple of hints that he's always made friends on these trips and even other group tours with other tour operators, but the guides didn't really ask the follow up questions.  At the end of the day, we weren't going to force anything, and I don't think the guides really wanted to pursue it either.  As he said, it was a great trip except for the social aspect of it.  For us, the experience de-emphasizes the importance of the social aspect of being with other kids, which had been one of our main reasons for selecting ABD, and opens up more options around travelling on our own or doing more adventure based travel (my sense is he is kind of growing out of the ABD experience and wants to do more active types of adventures).


----------



## jimmymc

wanderlust7 said:


> Wondering has anyone ever estimated the broken down cost of what you get with an ABD?  So - $X worth for the hotels, $X for the meals, $X for the activities, $X for the guides?
> 
> The first time I saw the price for an ABD my eyes bugged out.    But the more I read on here (very helpful for planning DIY trips ), the more I think maybe one day....  I like how the kids form their own group and do kid friendly activities while the adults tour something else.



I'm actually thinking of going to Alaska in 2019, I will price out and compare a sample itinerary later today and update.


----------



## sandhya

we just finished Adults only Greece trip. My two thoughts were:
1. Can anyone do a better job than this? 
2. Is Disney really making money on this trip? 
I am a DVC member using points. I guess my perspective would be different
if I am paying cash.


----------



## OhanaCuz

sandhya said:


> we just finished Adults only Greece trip. My two thoughts were:



The Greece trip wasn't even on my radar until I saw so many people raving about it on here!


----------



## sayhello

OhanaCuz said:


> The Greece trip wasn't even on my radar until I saw so many people raving about it on here!


Still the favorite of my 9 (so far) ABD's.  

Sayhello


----------



## CaliKris

sandhya said:


> we just finished Adults only Greece trip. My two thoughts were:
> 1. Can anyone do a better job than this?
> 2. Is Disney really making money on this trip?



We are signed up for the Adults only Sept 2018 Greece trip.  I am curious how many people were in your group and if there were any younger adults.  Our two adult children (in their 20's) will be traveling with us.  How was the weather in September?


----------



## sandhya

we were 32+1, +1 was a Disney executive traveling with us to fine tune this trip. No younger adults, but your children will easily meld in.
Weather was perfect. 65-70 all the time. Zero humidity. It was like doing the whole trip in AC.
I will post a mini cheat sheet for future adventurers.


----------



## CaliKris

Good to know!  A mini cheat sheet would be great!!


----------



## jimmymc

UPDATE ON THE ALASKA TRIP PRICING COMPARISON

ABD Alaska
July 16-23, 2018
$5,099 pp x2 = $10,198 for 2 people, 1 room

Hotels: 

All hotels assume 1 Queen/King or 2 doubles, whichever is cheaper, and double occupancy.

Anchorage Marriott Downtown, 1 night = $359.95+$43.19 tax = 403.14

Talkeetna Alaskan Lodge, 1 night = $336 + $16.80 tax = $352.80

Grand Denali Lodge, 2 nights = $479x2 + 7% tax = $1,025.06

The Hotel Alyeska, 3 nights = $389x3 + tax = $1,337.04

Hotel Total = $3,118.04

Transportation:

Since there basically isn't any public transportation in the area, I will use the price for a rental car instead:

Pickup and Return at ANC Airport from July 16 to July 23 = $650 + gas, approximately $706

Meals (all prices are for 2):

Day 1:
Welcome Dinner at Bridge Seafood: Prices not listed, based on reviews about $90

Day 2:
Breakfast at hotel: $38
Private BBQ Lunch: $30 (estimate)
Dinner at Talkeetna Alaskan Lodge: $130

Day 3
Breakfast at Talkeetna Roadhouse: $30
Lunch: Included in train ride, see below
Dinner at Alpenglow Restaurant: $140

Day 4
Breakfast at Alpenglow: $50
Lunch at Denali Park Salmon Bake: $80
Dinner on your own

Day 5
Breakfast at Alpenglow: $50
Lunch at Pizza Thyme: $60
Dinner on your own

Day 6
Breakfast at hotel: $50
Lunch on your own
Dinner included in Rafting Tour, see below

Day 7
Breakfast at hotel: $50
Lunch on your own
Farewell Dinner at Hotel Alyeska: $150

Day 8
Breakfast at hotel: $50

Total for all meals: $998

Activities:

Day 1
N/A

Day 2
Alaska Native Heritage Center: $50
Bike and Kayak Rental: $170

Day 3
Alaska Railroad Goldstar Car: $442

Day 4
Canyon Water Run Rafting: $194

Day 5
Happy Trails Kennels Dog Sledding Tour/Demonstration: Price not available, but since there is no sled ride included, estimate at $40

Day 6
Gold Panning: $40
Spencier Glacier Float Trip and Dinner: $853.04

Day 7
Alaska Wildlife Conservation Center: $34

Day 8

N/A

Total for all activities: $1,823.04

Summary:
Lodging: $3,118.04
Transportation: $706
Meals: $998
Activities: $1,823.04

Grand Total: $6,645.08

Price difference: $10,198 - $6,645.08 = $3,552.92

Things included in ABD but not included in booking on your own:

2 Guides familiar with the area acting as your personal concierge
Luggage service at all hotels and the airport
Private transportation that does not involve driving yourself
Several private meals at the restaurants mentioned above
Separate activities for children

Because this trip involves so many outdoor activities, it can be exhausting, so don't underestimate the value of things like charter buses and luggage service. Alaska is beautiful, but the weather and nature is unforgiving, even in the summer, so having local guides and organized outdoor activities feels much safer than just showing up and doing some hikes on your own. This is especially true in Denali, where there are very few hiking trails, and the ones that exist are somewhat extreme (the park encourages off-trail hiking, so they don't disturb the wildlife too much). I personally feel like I would want to spend more time on my own in untouched nature than doing organized activities, so I don't think this trip is for me. However, if you want a hassle free, safe way to see the wonder that is Alaska, then the activities they have planned are pretty spectacular. This is also great for varying ages of kids, since most activities are not too strenuous, or there are alternatives. 

Biggest tip: make sure to make use of the on your own time in Denali. The park offers buses that take you deep into the park, where you'll get spectacular views of the mountains and possibly see bears, wolves, and moose in the wild. I don't think 2 afternoons is enough time to properly see the park, so maybe consider extending your trip by taking the train from Girdwood to Denali, or renting a car at the airport to explore the state park.


----------



## Jess_S

jimmymc said:


> UPDATE ON THE ALASKA TRIP PRICING COMPARISON
> 
> ABD Alaska
> July 16-23, 2018
> $5,099 pp x2 = $10,198 for 2 people, 1 room



This is awesome. Thank you so much for putting together a detailed breakdown.


----------



## wanderlust7

jimmymc said:


> UPDATE ON THE ALASKA TRIP PRICING COMPARISON
> 
> Grand Total: $6,645.08
> 
> Price difference: $10,198 - $6,645.08 = $3,552.92



Thank you, this is great!  So that comes out to $220/person/day (using 8 days) for the guides, driver, and extras/intangibles.


----------



## gypsy_at_heart

I keep trying to justify an ABD but I just can't seem to. 

I travel quite a bit with adventure travel companies - something I love - and a lot of the pros of ABD seem to be the things I already love about the adventure tours I take. Unique experiences, local guides, immersion in the culture and unique cultural experiences. The difference is that I end up paying a couple thousand less. 

Has anyone done both? Adventure tours and ABD? Is there something I'm missing that tips the scale?


----------



## jimmymc

I had enough fun with the Alaska trip I did some more research:

ABD Italy, July 27 through August 3, 2018
$5,099 per adult x 2 = $10,198

Hotels:

All hotels assume 1 Queen/King or 2 doubles, whichever is cheaper, and double occupancy.

Gran Melia Rome Hotel, including breakfast, 2 nights = $1,112.73

Hotel Borgo di Cortefreda, including breakfast, 3 nights = $498

Hilton Molino Stucky, 2 nights = $651.41

Hotel Total = $2,262.14

Transportation:

This gets tricky. On the Alaska trip I assumed a rental car because there isn't much public transit. This time I'll try to use busses, trains, and metros, or a private car when applicable.

Transfer from Rome airport to hotel: $61.60

48 hour bus/metro pass in Rome: $14.58

1st class train from Rome to Orvieto: $22 x 2 = $44

1st class train Orvieto to Florence: $39.80 x 2 = $79.60

Since the hotel is in a very rural area, we'll rent a car again in Florence.

Rental car, automatic, for 3 days, plus estimated $50 for gas = $236.43

Car takes care of all transportation in rural Italy

1st class train, Florence to Venice: $83.66

2 Day Vaporetto Pass: $34.96 x 2 = $69.92

Boat transfer from Venice to Airport: $17.48 x 2 = $34.96

Transportation Total: $624.75

Meals (all prices are for 2):

Day 1
Welcome Dinner at Hotel: $174.71

Day 2
Breakfast included in hotel
Lunch at local restaurant: Estimated $60
Dinner on your own

Day 3
Breakfast included in hotel
Lunch at local restaurant in Orvieto: Estimated $60
Dinner at Ristorante Cortefreda: $111.82

Day 4
Breakfast included in hotel
Lunch at Fattoria Poggio Alloro: $228.29
Dinner in a Castello: Can't find any prices, estimate $200

Day 5
Breakfast included in hotel
Lunch on your own in Florence
Dinner on your own in Florence

Day 6
Breakfast included in hotel
Boxed lunch onboard train: $40
Dinner on your own

Day 7
Breakfast at hotel: $51.25
Lunch on your own
Dinner on The Jolly Roger: $256.25

Day 8
Breakfast at hotel: $51.25

Food Total: $1233.57

Activities

Day 1
Tour of the Colosseum and Roman Forum: $134.34

Day 2
St. Peter's Basilica Skip the Line Tour: $44
Rome Tour Bus: $53.04
Rome Walking Tour: Free, guides work for tips, so ~$10 tip
Vatican Museum and Sistine Chapel after dark: $815.34

Day 3
On your own in Orvieto, lots of travel

Day 4
Wine tasting: Free with meal price

Day 5
Accademia Gallery Tickets/Tour: $53.58
Palazzo Vecchio Tour: $75.89

Day 6
Gondola Tour: $93.18
Piazza San Marco Tour: $155.94

Day 7
Venice Architecture Tour: Free w/ tips, ~$10
Mask Making: $80

Day 8
N/A

Activities Total: $1525.31

Summary:
Lodging: $2,262.14
Transportation: $624.75
Meals: $1233.57
Activities: $1525.31

Grand Total: $5,645.77

Price Difference: $10,198 - $5,645.77 = $4,552.23

Things included in ABD but not included in booking on your own:

2 Guides familiar with the area acting as your personal concierge
Luggage service at all hotels and the airport
Private transportation that does not involve driving yourself or any public transit
Several private meals at the restaurants mentioned above
Separate activities for children

Some observations, comparing this trip witht the Alaska trip I looked at earlier:

Both trips are 8 days, 7 nights. Hotels are much less in Rome and rural Italy compared to Alaska. Transportation ended up being slightly cheaper as well, mostly because of the amount of mass transit. It would be interesting to see the price of having a car in Rome and Florence area, but parking and gas make it a little complicated to figure out the real price. Meals were more expensive in Italy, I'll address that in a minute. Activities were a bit more in Alaska, mostly because of the on your own time in several different cities. Overall I can navigate Italy pretty well on my own, so I would probably be more inclined to take the Alaska trip, but if I had kids and was trying to ferry them between different cities on public transit it could get pretty hectic and the trip might have more value.

My take on this trip: Like I said, I've been to Italy before and have no issues taking subways, buses, or walking long distances in cities, and I'm fine taking trains in between cities. Private car airport transfers are probably the only thing I would splurge on transport wise. The hotels in Rome is perfect. Walking distance to Vatican City, and a longer walk to the Forum area but still doable, and you pass by many sites on the way there.

Many of the places you get private tours of are easy to see on your own, and I don't know how much the guides add over a decent book about the site. Hop on, hop off tour buses are popular in Italy and a cheap way to see things while stopping wherever you want. The gondola rides are fun and easy enough to find. Most gondoliers are very knowledgeable about the city and can give you a tour and recommendations while on the ride. The after hours Vatican Museum tour looks amazing, I'm just not sure if it's worth the money. For reference, it's $16 to get in normally and the lines aren't that bad if you get there after lunch.

The food is an interesting case here. There a lots of meals on your own, however the ones ABD does provide are pretty amazing. 2 of them are Michelin Star restaurants, and the dinner cruise around Venice as your farewell dinner is a nice touch. I would usually skip the hotel breakfast in exchange for finding a local restaurant or going to the grocery store. While the fine dining restaurants in Italy are delicious, there is plenty of cheap, filling, delicious food around Italy.

In conclusion, like Alaska, I would probably skip the trip and book it on my own. I pack pretty light and don't buy too many huge souvenirs, so luggage service isn't that much of a value to me. I would also skip the hotel in the Italian countryside and stay in Florence, as the podcast team has done. I would love to see the countryside, but I would just take a bus somewhere for the day. There will be plenty of options leaving daily from all 3 cities. Florence is a spectacular place to stay in and just live like a local. It's also Italy's college town, so if you're young and want to meet locals and discover the nightlife this is a great place to do it. 

Biggest tip for this trip: Book pre and post nights. You can explore the coast, go see Pompeii, and spend more time looking around the historical sites in Rome. And like Florence, Venice is just a great place to be, even if you just walk around, stop in a cafe, do some window shopping, and live like a local on the weekends. I highly recommend visiting Rome, Florence, and Venice in general.


----------



## calypso726

gypsy_at_heart said:


> I keep trying to justify an ABD but I just can't seem to.
> 
> I travel quite a bit with adventure travel companies - something I love - and a lot of the pros of ABD seem to be the things I already love about the adventure tours I take. Unique experiences, local guides, immersion in the culture and unique cultural experiences. The difference is that I end up paying a couple thousand less.
> 
> Has anyone done both? Adventure tours and ABD? Is there something I'm missing that tips the scale?



Is Adventure Tours the name of the company? I Googled that name and came up with Active Adventure tours, G Adventure Tours, Australia Adventure Tours but nothing with just that name. 



jimmymc said:


> I had enough fun with the Alaska trip I did some more research:
> 
> ABD Italy, July 27 through August 3, 2018
> $5,099 per adult x 2 = $10,198
> 
> Hotels:
> 
> All hotels assume 1 Queen/King or 2 doubles, whichever is cheaper, and double occupancy.
> 
> Gran Melia Rome Hotel, including breakfast, 2 nights = $1,112.73
> 
> Hotel Borgo di Cortefreda, including breakfast, 3 nights = $498
> 
> Hilton Molino Stucky, 2 nights = $651.41
> 
> Hotel Total = $2,262.14
> 
> Transportation:
> 
> This gets tricky. On the Alaska trip I assumed a rental car because there isn't much public transit. This time I'll try to use busses, trains, and metros, or a private car when applicable.
> 
> Transfer from Rome airport to hotel: $61.60
> 
> 48 hour bus/metro pass in Rome: $14.58
> 
> 1st class train from Rome to Orvieto: $22 x 2 = $44
> 
> 1st class train Orvieto to Florence: $39.80 x 2 = $79.60
> 
> Since the hotel is in a very rural area, we'll rent a car again in Florence.
> 
> Rental car, automatic, for 3 days, plus estimated $50 for gas = $236.43
> 
> Car takes care of all transportation in rural Italy
> 
> 1st class train, Florence to Venice: $83.66
> 
> 2 Day Vaporetto Pass: $34.96 x 2 = $69.92
> 
> Boat transfer from Venice to Airport: $17.48 x 2 = $34.96
> 
> Transportation Total: $624.75
> 
> Meals (all prices are for 2):
> 
> Day 1
> Welcome Dinner at Hotel: $174.71
> 
> Day 2
> Breakfast included in hotel
> Lunch at local restaurant: Estimated $60
> Dinner on your own
> 
> Day 3
> Breakfast included in hotel
> Lunch at local restaurant in Orvieto: Estimated $60
> Dinner at Ristorante Cortefreda: $111.82
> 
> Day 4
> Breakfast included in hotel
> Lunch at Fattoria Poggio Alloro: $228.29
> Dinner in a Castello: Can't find any prices, estimate $200
> 
> Day 5
> Breakfast included in hotel
> Lunch on your own in Florence
> Dinner on your own in Florence
> 
> Day 6
> Breakfast included in hotel
> Boxed lunch onboard train: $40
> Dinner on your own
> 
> Day 7
> Breakfast at hotel: $51.25
> Lunch on your own
> Dinner on The Jolly Roger: $256.25
> 
> Day 8
> Breakfast at hotel: $51.25
> 
> Food Total: $1233.57
> 
> Activities
> 
> Day 1
> Tour of the Colosseum and Roman Forum: $134.34
> 
> Day 2
> St. Peter's Basilica Skip the Line Tour: $44
> Rome Tour Bus: $53.04
> Rome Walking Tour: Free, guides work for tips, so ~$10 tip
> Vatican Museum and Sistine Chapel after dark: $815.34
> 
> Day 3
> On your own in Orvieto, lots of travel
> 
> Day 4
> Wine tasting: Free with meal price
> 
> Day 5
> Accademia Gallery Tickets/Tour: $53.58
> Palazzo Vecchio Tour: $75.89
> 
> Day 6
> Gondola Tour: $93.18
> Piazza San Marco Tour: $155.94
> 
> Day 7
> Venice Architecture Tour: Free w/ tips, ~$10
> Mask Making: $80
> 
> Day 8
> N/A
> 
> Activities Total: $1525.31
> 
> Summary:
> Lodging: $2,262.14
> Transportation: $624.75
> Meals: $1233.57
> Activities: $1525.31
> 
> Grand Total: $5,645.77
> 
> Price Difference: $10,198 - $5,645.77 = $4,552.23
> 
> Things included in ABD but not included in booking on your own:
> 
> 2 Guides familiar with the area acting as your personal concierge
> Luggage service at all hotels and the airport
> Private transportation that does not involve driving yourself or any public transit
> Several private meals at the restaurants mentioned above
> Separate activities for children
> 
> Some observations, comparing this trip witht the Alaska trip I looked at earlier:
> 
> Both trips are 8 days, 7 nights. Hotels are much less in Rome and rural Italy compared to Alaska. Transportation ended up being slightly cheaper as well, mostly because of the amount of mass transit. It would be interesting to see the price of having a car in Rome and Florence area, but parking and gas make it a little complicated to figure out the real price. Meals were more expensive in Italy, I'll address that in a minute. Activities were a bit more in Alaska, mostly because of the on your own time in several different cities. Overall I can navigate Italy pretty well on my own, so I would probably be more inclined to take the Alaska trip, but if I had kids and was trying to ferry them between different cities on public transit it could get pretty hectic and the trip might have more value.
> 
> My take on this trip: Like I said, I've been to Italy before and have no issues taking subways, buses, or walking long distances in cities, and I'm fine taking trains in between cities. Private car airport transfers are probably the only thing I would splurge on transport wise. The hotels in Rome is perfect. Walking distance to Vatican City, and a longer walk to the Forum area but still doable, and you pass by many sites on the way there.
> 
> Many of the places you get private tours of are easy to see on your own, and I don't know how much the guides add over a decent book about the site. Hop on, hop off tour buses are popular in Italy and a cheap way to see things while stopping wherever you want. The gondola rides are fun and easy enough to find. Most gondoliers are very knowledgeable about the city and can give you a tour and recommendations while on the ride. The after hours Vatican Museum tour looks amazing, I'm just not sure if it's worth the money. For reference, it's $16 to get in normally and the lines aren't that bad if you get there after lunch.
> 
> The food is an interesting case here. There a lots of meals on your own, however the ones ABD does provide are pretty amazing. 2 of them are Michelin Star restaurants, and the dinner cruise around Venice as your farewell dinner is a nice touch. I would usually skip the hotel breakfast in exchange for finding a local restaurant or going to the grocery store. While the fine dining restaurants in Italy are delicious, there is plenty of cheap, filling, delicious food around Italy.
> 
> In conclusion, like Alaska, I would probably skip the trip and book it on my own. I pack pretty light and don't buy too many huge souvenirs, so luggage service isn't that much of a value to me. I would also skip the hotel in the Italian countryside and stay in Florence, as the podcast team has done. I would love to see the countryside, but I would just take a bus somewhere for the day. There will be plenty of options leaving daily from all 3 cities. Florence is a spectacular place to stay in and just live like a local. It's also Italy's college town, so if you're young and want to meet locals and discover the nightlife this is a great place to do it.
> 
> Biggest tip for this trip: Book pre and post nights. You can explore the coast, go see Pompeii, and spend more time looking around the historical sites in Rome. And like Florence, Venice is just a great place to be, even if you just walk around, stop in a cafe, do some window shopping, and live like a local on the weekends. I highly recommend visiting Rome, Florence, and Venice in general.



I totally agree with scheduling some on your own pre and post nights. We should have have done that. I gotta say though, despite the fact that we just did this Italy ABD in August and seeing the price difference vs doing it OYO, I’d still book it again with ABD. It’s one of the few ABD trips I’d do again as is. We’ve actually discussed booking this same trip again down the line. I imagine when one of the nieces or nephews graduates, if they want to go to Italy, this is the trip we’d treat them to.


----------



## gypsy_at_heart

calypso726 said:


> Is Adventure Tours the name of the company? I Googled that name and came up with Active Adventure tours, G Adventure Tours, Australia Adventure Tours but nothing with just that name.




Adventure tours are just a type/style of tour. I wasn't sure I was allowed to post company names 

mostly I've used g adventures comfort level tours which now are their National Geographic tours. But I've also used pergrine tours and intrepid in the past.


----------



## Calfan

gypsy_at_heart said:


> Adventure tours are just a type/style of tour. I wasn't sure I was allowed to post company names
> 
> mostly I've used g adventures comfort level tours which now are their National Geographic tours. But I've also used pergrine tours and intrepid in the past.



I have done 3 ABDs (Scotland in 2013, Central Europe in 2014 and Baltics cruise add on in 2015; we will be taking our 4th ABD next summer when we do the Southern California and Disneyland trip) and am leaving tomorrow morning for my third hiking trip with Nat Geo (England Coast to Coast in 2015, Hiking the Emerald Isle in 2016 and Patagonia upcoming).  The focus of the trips is clearly quite different, but I've found my Nat Geo trips to be on par or better than the ABDs I have taken.


----------



## AquamarineSteph

I have traveled with multiple tour companies, including ABD.  It all comes down to what you want/need in a tour.


----------



## jimmymc

calypso726 said:


> Is Adventure Tours the name of the company? I Googled that name and came up with Active Adventure tours, G Adventure Tours, Australia Adventure Tours but nothing with just that name.
> 
> 
> 
> I totally agree with scheduling some on your own pre and post nights. We should have have done that. I gotta say though, despite the fact that we just did this Italy ABD in August and seeing the price difference vs doing it OYO, I’d still book it again with ABD. It’s one of the few ABD trips I’d do again as is. We’ve actually discussed booking this same trip again down the line. I imagine when one of the nieces or nephews graduates, if they want to go to Italy, this is the trip we’d treat them to.




If you had a great time going with ABD then I think it's definitely worth doing it with them again. Depending on the time you have available, Venice and Milan are both spectacular for postnights and trains run between the two constantly. Naples is OK and the gateway to Pompeii, but not as much to do as any of the other cities.


----------



## MakiraMarlena

I've done two ABD tours, but they were big, far away ones. Australia in 2009 and South Africa which ended a month ago. Australia was well worth the cost (which is probably a bunch higher 8 years later but it would still be worth the cost.). South Africa was MORE than worth the cost.


----------



## jimmymc

ABD London and Paris, July 20 through July 27, 2018
$5,299 per adult x 2 = $10,598

Hotels:

All hotels assume 1 Queen/King or 2 doubles, whichever is cheaper, and double occupancy.

The Landmark London, 3 nights = $1622.19

The Hilton Paris Opera, 4 nights = $1392.53

Hotel Total = $3,014.72

Transportation:

Cab from Heathrow to The Landmark London: $90.31

3 day London Travelcard (all busses and tubes near the city center), x2: $94.79

Premier Economy Eurostar from London to Paris, x2: $310

Unlimited 5 Day Paris Metro Pass, Including Versailles and both airports, x2: $170.74

Transfer from Paris to CDG: $70.75

Transportation Total = $736.59

Meals (all prices are for 2):

Day 1
Welcome Dinner at local pub: $75

Day 2
Breakfast at hotel: $89.54
Lunch at Perkin Reveller: $71
Dinner at Landmark London: $186.64

Day 3
Breakfast at hotel: $89.54
Lunch on your own
Dinner on your own

Day 4
Breakfast at hotel: $89.54
Lunch on your own
Dinner at the Hilton Paris Opera: $70

Day 5
Breakfast at hotel: $68.21
Lunch at La Flotille: $84.67
Dinner on your own

Day 6
Breakfast at hotel: $68.21
Lunch on your own
Dinner on your own

Day 7
Breakfast at hotel: $68.21
Lunch on your own
Dinner at Ladurée: $110

Day 8
Breakfast at hotel: $68.21

Food Total = $1,138.77

Activities (all prices for 2)

Day 1
On your own in London

Day 2
London Bus Tour: $50
Tour of Westminster Abbey: $13.25
Changing of the Guard: Free
Beefeater Meet and Greet: $57
Tower of London Tour: Free
Boat Ride on River Thames: $95.40

Day 3
Archery: $66.25
Scone Making and Tea: $78.18
Windsor Castle and Queen Mary's Dollhouse: $57

Day 4
Bus tour of Paris: $71
Eiffel Tower Behind the Scenes: $127

Day 5
Versailles Tour: $91
Bike Tour: $42.29
Wine tasting at La Bonne Franquette: $44.64
Walking tour of Montmartre: $20 tip

Day 6
Le Marais Walking Food Tour: $209.11
Marche Des Enfants Rouges: Free

Day 7
Notre Dame Tour: $110.42
Water Taxi on the Seine: $40
Louvre Guided Tour: $136.82

Day 8
N/A

Activities Total = $1,309.36

Grand Total = $6,199.44

Price Difference: $10,598 - $6,199.44 = $4,398.56

Things included in ABD but not included in booking on your own:

2 Guides familiar with the area acting as your personal concierge
Luggage service at all hotels and the airport
Private transportation that does not involve driving yourself or any public transit
Several private meals at the restaurants mentioned above
Separate activities for children

Comparing to Italy, both the ABD price and on your own price are both more expensive and result in a similar price difference. The increased price is mainly due to the hotels. Staying in central London and Paris is very expensive. This trip also includes less food experiences than Italy and more meals on your own, which in London and Paris have the potential to be spectacular. There is no stay in rural England or France, although some of the activities take you outside of the city. I think this is a good move, mainly because I prefer to have more food options and nightlife.

This trip seems more worth it to me than the first two I reviewed. First of all, these are two very nice, centrally located hotels. Being walking distance from museums, restaurants, and bars at night is a huge plus. London is also a sprawling city, and riding the tube at rush hour is like a cattle drive. Having a nice, comfortable bus would make a huge difference. The days in London are also jam packed. There's no way I would be able to do all that on my own in the time allotted. I've only been to London briefly and didn't see a lot, so I would probably book pre-nights to see a few things not on the itinerary. 

I have spent more time in Paris, and I think this tour hits pretty much all the highlights you can expect to hit in 3.5 days. I've already seen Versailles, so I might stay in the city that day and spend some time walking around and trying food. Sacre Coeur is a spectacular place to visit, and the Latin Quarter is great for touring on your own. I would also recommend climbing the Arc de Triomphe. You get a great view of the city and the river. Of the European trips, this one may be the best value I've seen so far, because of how crowded the cities are and the price/quality of the hotels. These should be two bucket list cities for anybody.


----------



## disneyphx

Interesting to see the price breakdown of various trips!
We just did the London/Paris trip in Summer 2017. One of the things we most appreciated about doing it with ABD was that all the entries were purchased and planned - with timed entry at a lot of the poular sights, we would have had a much more stressful trip doing it all independently. As you mentioned, several of  the days are jam-packed - having the logistics taken care of is the only way to fit it all in.
A couple of other 'intangibles' that I know just from having recently done the trip:
- there are 'step on' guides in London and Paris - so most days, we actually had 3 guides! And then even more guides where they split up the group into smaller groups - Eiffel Tower, food tour, Westminster Abbey
- the 'how' of some activities was only for ABD (or some other tour company that figures it out.....) - the place we did archery, the company comes from like an hour away to do it there; for the scone making, similar thing
One of the things that is priceless to me is that ABD figures it all out for me! We are going back to London next April (Hamilton!) and I have spent hours looking for the 'perfect' hotel and activities to do each day.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Super interesting! Thanks for breaking it down like that. Seems like a healthy profit for this trip. I suspect there are some trips where they profit margin is higher than others.


----------



## Woodview

jimmymc said:


> ABD London and Paris, July 20 through July 27, 2018
> $5,299 per adult x 2 = $10,598
> 
> Hotels:
> 
> All hotels assume 1 Queen/King or 2 doubles, whichever is cheaper, and double occupancy.
> 
> The Landmark London, 3 nights = $1622.19
> 
> The Hilton Paris Opera, 4 nights = $1392.53
> 
> Hotel Total = $3,014.72
> 
> Transportation:
> 
> Cab from Heathrow to The Landmark London: $90.31
> 
> 3 day London Travelcard (all busses and tubes near the city center), x2: $94.79
> 
> Premier Economy Eurostar from London to Paris, x2: $310
> 
> Unlimited 5 Day Paris Metro Pass, Including Versailles and both airports, x2: $170.74
> 
> Transfer from Paris to CDG: $70.75
> 
> Transportation Total = $736.59
> 
> Meals (all prices are for 2):
> 
> Day 1
> Welcome Dinner at local pub: $75
> 
> Day 2
> Breakfast at hotel: $89.54
> Lunch at Perkin Reveller: $71
> Dinner at Landmark London: $186.64
> 
> Day 3
> Breakfast at hotel: $89.54
> Lunch on your own
> Dinner on your own
> 
> Day 4
> Breakfast at hotel: $89.54
> Lunch on your own
> Dinner at the Hilton Paris Opera: $70
> 
> Day 5
> Breakfast at hotel: $68.21
> Lunch at La Flotille: $84.67
> Dinner on your own
> 
> Day 6
> Breakfast at hotel: $68.21
> Lunch on your own
> Dinner on your own
> 
> Day 7
> Breakfast at hotel: $68.21
> Lunch on your own
> Dinner at Ladurée: $110
> 
> Day 8
> Breakfast at hotel: $68.21
> 
> Food Total = $1,138.77
> 
> Activities (all prices for 2)
> 
> Day 1
> On your own in London
> 
> Day 2
> London Bus Tour: $50
> Tour of Westminster Abbey: $13.25
> Changing of the Guard: Free
> Beefeater Meet and Greet: $57
> Tower of London Tour: Free
> Boat Ride on River Thames: $95.40
> 
> Day 3
> Archery: $66.25
> Scone Making and Tea: $78.18
> Windsor Castle and Queen Mary's Dollhouse: $57
> 
> Day 4
> Bus tour of Paris: $71
> Eiffel Tower Behind the Scenes: $127
> 
> Day 5
> Versailles Tour: $91
> Bike Tour: $42.29
> Wine tasting at La Bonne Franquette: $44.64
> Walking tour of Montmartre: $20 tip
> 
> Day 6
> Le Marais Walking Food Tour: $209.11
> Marche Des Enfants Rouges: Free
> 
> Day 7
> Notre Dame Tour: $110.42
> Water Taxi on the Seine: $40
> Louvre Guided Tour: $136.82
> 
> Day 8
> N/A
> 
> Activities Total = $1,309.36
> 
> Grand Total = $6,199.44
> 
> Price Difference: $10,598 - $6,199.44 = $4,398.56
> 
> Things included in ABD but not included in booking on your own:
> 
> 2 Guides familiar with the area acting as your personal concierge
> Luggage service at all hotels and the airport
> Private transportation that does not involve driving yourself or any public transit
> Several private meals at the restaurants mentioned above
> Separate activities for children
> 
> Comparing to Italy, both the ABD price and on your own price are both more expensive and result in a similar price difference. The increased price is mainly due to the hotels. Staying in central London and Paris is very expensive. This trip also includes less food experiences than Italy and more meals on your own, which in London and Paris have the potential to be spectacular. There is no stay in rural England or France, although some of the activities take you outside of the city. I think this is a good move, mainly because I prefer to have more food options and nightlife.
> 
> This trip seems more worth it to me than the first two I reviewed. First of all, these are two very nice, centrally located hotels. Being walking distance from museums, restaurants, and bars at night is a huge plus. London is also a sprawling city, and riding the tube at rush hour is like a cattle drive. Having a nice, comfortable bus would make a huge difference. The days in London are also jam packed. There's no way I would be able to do all that on my own in the time allotted. I've only been to London briefly and didn't see a lot, so I would probably book pre-nights to see a few things not on the itinerary.
> 
> I have spent more time in Paris, and I think this tour hits pretty much all the highlights you can expect to hit in 3.5 days. I've already seen Versailles, so I might stay in the city that day and spend some time walking around and trying food. Sacre Coeur is a spectacular place to visit, and the Latin Quarter is great for touring on your own. I would also recommend climbing the Arc de Triomphe. You get a great view of the city and the river. Of the European trips, this one may be the best value I've seen so far, because of how crowded the cities are and the price/quality of the hotels. These should be two bucket list cities for anybody.




    Breakfast  Price  is   way over priced  ?

  Does it really cost  $ 45       per person      for a full English   or indeed  a Buffet  Breakfast .


----------



## jimmymc

Woodview said:


> Breakfast  Price  is   way over priced  ?
> 
> Does it really cost  $ 45       per person      for a full English   or indeed  a Buffet  Breakfast .



Yes, this price is for a full buffet and is pretty common for luxury hotels, both in Europe and the US.


----------



## jimmymc

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> Super interesting! Thanks for breaking it down like that. Seems like a healthy profit for this trip. I suspect there are some trips where they profit margin is higher than others.



It's very hard to tell what the profit is. While the on your own prices don't include guides and luggage service, Disney also gets group discounts on most anything listed here. Even the motorcoach service, when divided among 30 people, is sometimes cheaper than train tickets.


----------



## Grifdog22

Woodview said:


> Breakfast  Price  is   way over priced  ?
> 
> Does it really cost  $ 45       per person      for a full English   or indeed  a Buffet  Breakfast .



On November 27, 2017 Adam Efimoff, who lives in Australia, posted this as a comment on my Australian trip report:

_"You know I think Australia is just so expensive. I have paid on more than one occasion more than 150 dollars for a meal for just me. And no just for three courses. I love my food but still. This is all high end places. This is why I laugh when I see Americans talk about 60 dollars being expensive! And the meal included drinks but sans alcohol . Everything in Australia is expensive ."

Works at 3 hat molecular gastronomy venture

Lives In Brisbane Queensland Australia
Disneyland 2005
Disneyland Paris 2001
Walt Disney World 2016
Tokyo Disneyland Do not remember 1998????_

I believe it is very difficult to compare costs unilaterally across the board.  We have a good restaurant here where I get delicious buffalo wings at 30 cents each; I just paid more than $3.00 each in Norfolk Virginia.  My restaurant here is a family style restaurant off the beaten path.  Norfolk was downtown.  

Can you travel cheaper?  If that is the point of Woodview, of course you can.  Stay in hostels, pack your meals, etc.  But you are not comparing similar things.


----------



## hilarys

jimmymc said:


> Yes, this price is for a full buffet and is pretty common for luxury hotels, both in Europe and the US.



And what an amazing buffet it was.  We were all very sad when we switched over to the Hilton Paris Opera and had a very standard hotel buffet.


----------



## ldo

IMHO, I price items that I would actually pay for OOP when comparing--such as tours, comparable hotel, etc. For breakfast, I would say that if pricing for DIY, I might have gotten a package deal at the hotel including breakfast or used that $100/PP to eat in another very nice restaurant, or had my own continental in the room or bakery and then used that $ for a very nice early lunch. Although not apples to apples, it's likely something that many would not pay OOP if it was not included. Kinda like DDP at WDW; we would never get dessert if OOP after a large table service meal.
I would love the ambiance of ABD, meeting fellow travelers, and having everything taken care of--but it really starts to add up when you travel with a family. IMHO, we found DCL to be a much better value in Europe for a family and then just added some days DIY pre and post. I also agree about the hours spent planning--unless you enjoy playing jr travel agent, it's almost overwhelming planning a DIY land trip.


----------



## jimmymc

ldo said:


> IMHO, I price items that I would actually pay for OOP when comparing--such as tours, comparable hotel, etc. For breakfast, I would say that if pricing for DIY, I might have gotten a package deal at the hotel including breakfast or used that $100/PP to eat in another very nice restaurant, or had my own continental in the room or bakery and then used that $ for a very nice early lunch. Although not apples to apples, it's likely something that many would not pay OOP if it was not included. Kinda like DDP at WDW; we would never get dessert if OOP after a large table service meal.
> I would love the ambiance of ABD, meeting fellow travelers, and having everything taken care of--but it really starts to add up when you travel with a family. IMHO, we found DCL to be a much better value in Europe for a family and then just added some days DIY pre and post. I also agree about the hours spent planning--unless you enjoy playing jr travel agent, it's almost overwhelming planning a DIY land trip.




I personally agree, if I were doing these on my own there's no way I'd pay $100 for breakfast, but that's what the hotel charges so I wanted to make it a fair comparison. The packages hotels offer usually don't save you that much, but there's plenty of options to eat a large or small breakfast for half the price just down the street from most of these places if breakfast isn't already included.

I personally have never done an ABD trip or European cruise, but I have taken trips on my own and had a lot of fun. European cities are pretty easy to plan, I imagine somewhere like China or South Africa would be more difficult.


----------



## SingingMom

jimmymc said:


> I personally agree, if I were doing these on my own there's no way I'd pay $100 for breakfast, but that's what the hotel charges so I wanted to make it a fair comparison. The packages hotels offer usually don't save you that much, but there's plenty of options to eat a large or small breakfast for half the price just down the street from most of these places if breakfast isn't already included.
> 
> I personally have never done an ABD trip or European cruise, but I have taken trips on my own and had a lot of fun. European cities are pretty easy to plan, I imagine somewhere like China or South Africa would be more difficult.



If you aren't a "confident" traveler, I think ABD is worth the money.  I was very nervous about going to Europe - language, local travel, etc...  After 4 ABD's, I feel like a pro - but I STILL rather travel with them and have them do the planning/thinking for me..


----------



## Jess_S

jimmymc said:


> I personally agree, if I were doing these on my own there's no way I'd pay $100 for breakfast, but that's what the hotel charges so I wanted to make it a fair comparison. The packages hotels offer usually don't save you that much, but there's plenty of options to eat a large or small breakfast for half the price just down the street from most of these places if breakfast isn't already included.
> 
> I personally have never done an ABD trip or European cruise, but I have taken trips on my own and had a lot of fun. European cities are pretty easy to plan, I imagine somewhere like China or South Africa would be more difficult.



I think your apples to apples comparison is the fairest way to compare costs. There are lots of things included in ABD that I wouldn't do if I was travelling on my own (including tour guides every day, number of activities, etc.) But since you are getting those things with ABD, they need to be included if you are doing a cost comparison. 

Whether all of the things included in ABD have value to a particular traveler is a separate question. I'm counting down the days until my June trip so that I can give a definitive answer on that. I'm a person who wouldn't think twice about doing Europe on my own, so I need to actually experience ABD to know whether things like the guides and being part of a group will have value to me.


----------



## tink1970

SingingMom said:


> After 4 ABD's, I feel like a pro - but I STILL rather travel with them and have them do the planning/thinking for me..



Yes, yes, yes, a thousand times yes! I am fairly confident alone or with my daughter in Europe but throw in my parents or DH and I am out of vacation mode and into planner/executor/tour director mode which then makes it not a vacation for me. This is why I can't accurately put a "price" on that x factor. How much do you value not wanting to strangle beloved family member 10 times a day? While I don't always travel with ABD, if I'm taking my mother or husband on a trip, even if it's somewhere with which I am familiar, I pay for a tour. Enjoying a vacation and not feeling resentful to me is priceless.


----------



## acndis

tink1970 said:


> Yes, yes, yes, a thousand times yes! I am fairly confident alone or with my daughter in Europe but throw in my parents or DH and I am out of vacation mode and into planner/executor/tour director mode which then makes it not a vacation for me. This is why I can't accurately put a "price" on that x factor. How much do you value not wanting to strangle beloved family member 10 times a day? While I don't always travel with ABD, if I'm taking my mother or husband on a trip, even if it's somewhere with which I am familiar, I pay for a tour. Enjoying a vacation and not feeling resentful to me is priceless.


Yes!  This is it for me, too.  We are leaving for Australia next week and our 3 pre-days is New Zealand has me completely stressed out.  We are going to have to purchase an international plan for our phone so we can have maps and contact the tour providers we've booked to confirm.  We have to arrange transportation everywhere, etc.  We have no idea where anything is or how far everything is.  It's tons of research just to make it work for 3-days.  I miss the guides and we are not even there yet.  Ugh!  

I am definitely not looking to break even when I book an ABD vs. traveling on my own.  And, I can arrange all these things myself but you do get spoiled when someone does it for you (and does it so well).  The price you pay to not have to worry after you see the orange sign at the airport is so worth it to me!


----------



## OhanaCuz

acndis said:


> We are going to have to purchase an international plan for our phone so we can have maps and contact the tour providers we've booked to confirm.



What's worked for me when I'm over there is AT&T International Day Pass (Verizon has something similar).  Ten bucks a day and I use my phone like I would back home.  I loved it.

For calling Europe for trip planning I bought minutes from Google Voice and it's dirt cheap to call.


----------



## Cousin Orville

OhanaCuz said:


> What's worked for me when I'm over there is AT&T International Day Pass (Verizon has something similar).  Ten bucks a day and I use my phone like I would back home.  I loved it.



I’ve used this a few times this year and agree it works very well.  $10/day for unlimited data as far as I can tell.  Doesn’t work in every country like South Africa, but works in most.


----------



## OhanaCuz

Cousin Orville said:


> I’ve used this a few times this year and agree it works very well.  $10/day for unlimited data as far as I can tell.  Doesn’t work in every country like South Africa, but works in most.



I had to switch to a different unlimited plan to use it but I thought it was worth the hassle.  I also liked that it didn't matter if you switched to a different country during your $10/24-hour period.


----------



## AdamEfimoff

compared to what?
luxury tours
budget tours
fishing tours?


----------



## sayhello

AdamEfimoff said:


> compared to what?
> luxury tours
> budget tours
> fishing tours?


Nobody said "Is ABD worth it as much as [fill in the blank]".  They just asked if it's worth it (ie, is what you get worth what you pay?).  You're the one who added the "compared to" part.

Sayhello


----------



## calypso726

AdamEfimoff said:


> compared to what?
> luxury tours
> budget tours
> fishing tours?



Ok, I’ll state my opinion on these.

luxury tours:

Yes. Luxury tours sound like they’d be stuffy and require one to give up their sense of fun. No thanks.

budget tours

Yes. Budget tours sound like they are going to require me to give up depth of quality. No thanks.

fishing tours?

Yes. Fishing tours sound boring and I’d sooner find more entertainment staring at a popcorn ceiling and discover hidden designs in the patterns.


----------



## AdamEfimoff

calypso726 said:


> Ok, I’ll state my opinion on these.
> 
> luxury tours:
> 
> Yes. Luxury tours sound like they’d be stuffy and require one to give up their sense of fun. No thanks.
> 
> budget tours
> 
> Yes. Budget tours sound like they are going to require me to give up depth of quality. No thanks.
> 
> fishing tours?
> 
> Yes. Fishing tours sound boring and I’d sooner find more entertainment staring at a popcorn ceiling and discover hidden designs in the patterns.



I just never understood group tours. Eventhough Wildchina and Imperaial tours loo really good for china. 
disclosure I know one of the wildchina guides through linkedin


----------



## sayhello

AdamEfimoff said:


> I just never understood group tours. Eventhough Wildchina and Imperaial tours loo really good for china.
> disclosure I know one of the wildchina guides through linkedin


I'm curious what it is that you like about WildChina and Imperial tours that you see lacking in ABD?  ABD has a PHENOMENAL China itinerary.

Sayhello


----------



## calypso726

AdamEfimoff said:


> I just never understood group tours. Eventhough Wildchina and Imperaial tours loo really good for china.
> disclosure I know one of the wildchina guides through linkedin



To be honest, I’m not sure there is much to understand. If you don’t mind traveling with others who want to visit the same places you do, perhaps make new friends in the process and prefer not to plan everything on your own then group tours are a great way to do just that. 

Visiting a country like China isn’t something I would be comfortable planning on my own. I’d want someone else to handle all the logistics, not worry about the fact that I don’t speak the language or might commit a cultural faux pas and also be with others who share a language with me as well. My safety would be a concern and I would have 100% faith in Disney putting safety as a top priority.


----------



## AdamEfimoff

Guy Rubin of Imperial Tours speaks Chinese . He can also give you time to Olympic athletes and to dine on the Great Wall.


----------



## sayhello

AdamEfimoff said:


> Guy Rubin of Imperial Tours speaks Chinese . He can also give you time to Olympic athletes and to dine on the Great Wall.


One of our Adventure Guides, Joe, was born and grew up in Beijing.  Totally speaks Chinese, and knows TONS about living and growing up in China.  The same is true our local guides: Bruce from Hong Kong, Kun from Chengdu, Jenny from Guilin (AMAZING!) and Flo from Shanghai.  So I don't think the fact that Guy Rubin of Imperial Tours speaks Chinese makes them superior to ABD.  We did not have time with Olympic athletes, but we did meet some other folks (that is a surprise I won't spoil).  We didn't dine on the Great Wall (interesting idea!) but we did dine and watch fireworks from Club 33 in Shanghai Disneyland.

So I'm still curious.  What it is that you like about WildChina and Imperial tours that you see lacking in ABD?

Sayhello


----------



## AdamEfimoff

mind you I do know Jenny Zhou personally from wild china never used her but do know her on linkedin


----------



## sayhello

AdamEfimoff said:


> mind you I do know Jenny Zhou personally from wild china never used her but do know her on linkedin


I'm not sure what this has to do with the conversation.  Could you please explain?

Sayhello


----------



## AdamEfimoff

sayhello said:


> I'm not sure what this has to do with the conversation.  Could you please explain?
> 
> Sayhello


 It to show while I am not paid or being asked to mention them. Its to show that I know her and possible confliction of interest.  I am guess I am interested in 'local' country based providers. More than multinational   companies. I also find that local is the best way to go with tour companies. and with both you can do private travel.


----------



## 85glht

calypso726 said:


> I’d sooner find more entertainment staring at a popcorn ceiling and discover hidden designs in the patterns.



Hilarious....  I’m gonna use this quote if you don’t mind.


----------



## MakiraMarlena

I think the previous poster would rather give their money to local independent guides.

I did two ABD trips. Each had a local guide. They were worth paying for through Disney. Not sure what the difference is between paying a local guide who is employed by Disney and paying one who isn't employed by Disney.


----------



## WeLoveABD

MakiraMarlena said:


> I think the previous poster would rather give their money to local independent guides.
> 
> I did two ABD trips. Each had a local guide. They were worth paying for through Disney. Not sure what the difference is between paying a local guide who is employed by Disney and paying one who isn't employed by Disney.


Quality control!


----------



## sayhello

WeLoveABD said:


> Quality control!


THIS!   

Sayhello


----------



## Floridadad11

My family hired a tour guide from one of the independent Disney tour companies.  Honestly was the best money I have spent.  Generally The Disney guides are $400-$750 per hour most independent companies are around $150 per hour with a 6 hour minimum. We covered Magic Kingdom, Epcot and Animal Kingdom in tow easy days with No lines and a private guide that was escorting us all around the parks.  We found hidden mickeys, behind the scenes vip access and had no issues getting dining reservations at Cinderella's castle.  With the wait times 120 minutes (2 hours) you actually see more of the park I think but it is debatable since you will see the whole park in half the time if you choose.  Our guide was Mia and the site was www.magicviptours.com (not sure if that is allowed but they are great.  We go each year and the lines were crazy this year so we tried it.


----------



## calypso726

Floridadad11 said:


> My family hired a tour guide from one of the independent Disney tour companies.  Honestly was the best money I have spent.  Generally The Disney guides are $400-$750 per hour most independent companies are around $150 per hour with a 6 hour minimum. We covered Magic Kingdom, Epcot and Animal Kingdom in tow easy days with No lines and a private guide that was escorting us all around the parks.  We found hidden mickeys, behind the scenes vip access and had no issues getting dining reservations at Cinderella's castle.  With the wait times 120 minutes (2 hours) you actually see more of the park I think but it is debatable since you will see the whole park in half the time if you choose.  Our guide was Mia and the site was www.magicviptours.com (not sure if that is allowed but they are great.  We go each year and the lines were crazy this year so we tried it.



Hi @Floridadad11 and welcome to the DIS. I see this is your first post. I think you might be responding on the wrong thread or may be confused about the topic. ABD - Adventures by Disney is a group tour company for both domestic and international travel destinations. These vacation packages range from 4 days for destinations like Denmark, Barcelona, Copenhagen, New York and San Francisco to 10-12 days for destinations like Australia, South Africa, China and Vietnam.  Currently, they do not have an ABD itinerary that includes Disney World. The Disney guides you are referring to work for the VIP tours in the park. ABD is a separate entity of the Disney entity from the Disney Parks much in the same way Disney Cruise line is separate. The VIP park guides are $400 - $750 per hour with a 6 hour minimum for up to 10 people to be included in that price. The ABD group travel ranges from about $2,000 - $9,500 per person depending on the itinerary. Hope that clears things up.


----------



## cheryllarsen

We went to Peru and our most difficult time was when we wondered off by ourselves. Threatened when we didn't purchase from a peddler and unable to communicate due to  to language  barrier. After that we stuck with our guides!


----------



## cheryllarsen

We very much enjoyed our trip. Maybe not so much without ABD.


----------



## jimmymc

Guess who's back with another price comparison!

ABD Australia
August 12-22, 2018
$8,599 pp x2 = $17,198 for 2 people, 1 room

Hotels: 

All hotels assume 1 Queen/King or 2 doubles, whichever is cheaper, and double occupancy.

Shangri-La Hotel, Sydney, 3 nights = $727

Sails in the Desert, 1 night = $532

Pullman Palm Cove Sea Temple Resort and Spa, 3 nights = $737

Sheraton Grand Mirage Resort, 3 nights (includes breakfast)= $733

Hotel Total = $2,729

Transportation:

Opal Card for Sydney public transport, $12.09 x2 people, 4 days = $96.72

Flight from Sydney to Ayers Rock, $329 x2 = $658

Rental car at Ayers Rock, one day plus fuel = $120

Flight to Cairns, $473 x2 = $946

Rental car in Cairns, 3 days, plus fuel = $270

Flight to Brisbane, $146 x2 = $292

Rental car at Brisbane airport, 3 days plus fuel = $100

Transportation Total = $2,362.72

Meals (all prices are for 2):

Day 1
Lunch on your own
Dinner at The View Restaurant: $100

Day 2
Breakfast at hotel: $60
Lunch Cruise
Dinner on your own

Day 3
Breakfast at hotel: $60
Lunch on your own
Dinner at Tobruk Sheep Farm: $50

Day 4
Breakfast at hotel: $60
Lunch at Cultural Center: $30
Dinner at Ilkari Restaurant: $140

Day 5
Breakfast at hotel: $80
Lunch at Gecko's Cafe: $60
Dinner at Pullman Palm Cove: $100

Day 6
Breakfast at hotel: $60
Lunch on boat
Dinner on your own

Day 7
Breakfast at hotel: $60
Lunch on your own
Dinner at Hartley's Crocodile Adventure: Private dinner, $120 estimate

Day 8
Breakfast at hotel: $60
Lunch and Dinner on your own

Day 9
Breakfast included
Lunch at Byron Bay Pub: $50
Dinner on your own

Day 10
Breakfast included
Lunch at local farm: $100
Farewell Dinner at hotel: $140

Day 11
Breakfast Included

Food Total = $1,330

Activities:

Day 1
Taronga Zoo: $67

Day 2
Lunch Cruise: $160
Opera House Tour: $266

Day 3
Tobruk Sheep Farm Tour: $110

Day 4
Tours and visitor center at the park are free

Day 5
More free walking tours at Kata Tjuta

Day 6
Great Barrier Reef Boat Tour and Snorkeling: $408

Day 7
Tjapukai Cultural Park and Skyrail: $224
Hartley's Crocodile Adventures: $63

Day 8
On your own in Gold Coast

Day 9
Byron Bay Kayaking: $112
Cape Byron Lighthouse: Free

Day 10
Mt. Tamborine Experience: $142

Day 11
N/A

Total for all activities: $1,512

Summary:
Lodging: $2,729
Transportation: $2,362.72
Meals: $1,330
Activities: $1,512

Grand Total: $7,933.72

Price difference: $9,264.28

Things included in ABD but not included in booking on your own:

2 Guides familiar with the area acting as your personal concierge
Luggage service at all hotels and the airport
Private transportation that does not involve driving yourself
Several private meals at the restaurants mentioned above
Separate activities for children
Dinner at The View Restaurant, Tobruk Sheep Farm and Hartley's Crocodile Adventure are booked as private events and not normally available to the general public.

Well, that's quite a steep difference between the ABD price and booking on your own. There are a few things that might justify that number. First is the internal flights. ABD is dealing with the airlines, handling luggage and seat assignments, and taking care of the transfers to hotels, so it will probably be the least stressful 3 flights possible. Next is the private transportation. I assumed using public transit in Sydney, which is very good and the hotel is pretty close to most of the activities anyway. Then I included rental cars in the other 3 locations, which ended up being surprisingly cheap. That being said, between the physical activities and flights this trip is exhausting. Having a luxury coach waiting to take you everywhere instead of having someone drive has tremendous value. Last are the private after-hours meals at the zoo, Sheep Farm, and Crocodile rescue. These are some of the exclusive experiences you get with ABD that you really can't replicate on your own. Your group basically gets the venue to themselves.

So for the value of the trip? If you only had 2 weeks to see Australia, then I don't think you can get much better than this, except maybe adding a pre-night in Sydney, because there isn't much time there. I would probably spend 3 weeks to justify the length of the flight from Michigan. Add a few more nights in each city to allow for more cultural activities and unguided hiking. However, that is more vacation time than most people have to spare, so I understand having to trim it down. So if that was the case, then I think it's actually worth the money as a once in a lifetime chance to see Australia. Getting to see the best of a massive, diverse country in 11 days is a huge challenge, and this trip really fits in a lot. That doesn't mean I'll be doing it any time soon, but in the future this trip is a real possibility if it's paired up with pre-nights in Sydney.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

jimmymc said:


> Guess who's back with another price comparison!
> 
> ABD Australia
> August 12-22, 2018
> $8,599 pp x2 = $17,198 for 2 people, 1 room
> 
> Hotels:
> 
> All hotels assume 1 Queen/King or 2 doubles, whichever is cheaper, and double occupancy.
> 
> Shangri-La Hotel, Sydney, 3 nights = $727
> 
> Sails in the Desert, 1 night = $532
> 
> Pullman Palm Cove Sea Temple Resort and Spa, 3 nights = $737
> 
> Sheraton Grand Mirage Resort, 3 nights (includes breakfast)= $733
> 
> Hotel Total = $2,729
> 
> Transportation:
> 
> Opal Card for Sydney public transport, $12.09 x2 people, 4 days = $96.72
> 
> Flight from Sydney to Ayers Rock, $329 x2 = $658
> 
> Rental car at Ayers Rock, one day plus fuel = $120
> 
> Flight to Cairns, $473 x2 = $946
> 
> Rental car in Cairns, 3 days, plus fuel = $270
> 
> Flight to Brisbane, $146 x2 = $292
> 
> Rental car at Brisbane airport, 3 days plus fuel = $100
> 
> Transportation Total = $2,362.72
> 
> Meals (all prices are for 2):
> 
> Day 1
> Lunch on your own
> Dinner at The View Restaurant: $100
> 
> Day 2
> Breakfast at hotel: $60
> Lunch Cruise
> Dinner on your own
> 
> Day 3
> Breakfast at hotel: $60
> Lunch on your own
> Dinner at Tobruk Sheep Farm: $50
> 
> Day 4
> Breakfast at hotel: $60
> Lunch at Cultural Center: $30
> Dinner at Ilkari Restaurant: $140
> 
> Day 5
> Breakfast at hotel: $80
> Lunch at Gecko's Cafe: $60
> Dinner at Pullman Palm Cove: $100
> 
> Day 6
> Breakfast at hotel: $60
> Lunch on boat
> Dinner on your own
> 
> Day 7
> Breakfast at hotel: $60
> Lunch on your own
> Dinner at Hartley's Crocodile Adventure: Private dinner, $120 estimate
> 
> Day 8
> Breakfast at hotel: $60
> Lunch and Dinner on your own
> 
> Day 9
> Breakfast included
> Lunch at Byron Bay Pub: $50
> Dinner on your own
> 
> Day 10
> Breakfast included
> Lunch at local farm: $100
> Farewell Dinner at hotel: $140
> 
> Day 11
> Breakfast Included
> 
> Food Total = $1,330
> 
> Activities:
> 
> Day 1
> Taronga Zoo: $67
> 
> Day 2
> Lunch Cruise: $160
> Opera House Tour: $266
> 
> Day 3
> Tobruk Sheep Farm Tour: $110
> 
> Day 4
> Tours and visitor center at the park are free
> 
> Day 5
> More free walking tours at Kata Tjuta
> 
> Day 6
> Great Barrier Reef Boat Tour and Snorkeling: $408
> 
> Day 7
> Tjapukai Cultural Park and Skyrail: $224
> Hartley's Crocodile Adventures: $63
> 
> Day 8
> On your own in Gold Coast
> 
> Day 9
> Byron Bay Kayaking: $112
> Cape Byron Lighthouse: Free
> 
> Day 10
> Mt. Tamborine Experience: $142
> 
> Day 11
> N/A
> 
> Total for all activities: $1,512
> 
> Summary:
> Lodging: $2,729
> Transportation: $2,362.72
> Meals: $1,330
> Activities: $1,512
> 
> Grand Total: $7,933.72
> 
> Price difference: $9,264.28
> 
> Things included in ABD but not included in booking on your own:
> 
> 2 Guides familiar with the area acting as your personal concierge
> Luggage service at all hotels and the airport
> Private transportation that does not involve driving yourself
> Several private meals at the restaurants mentioned above
> Separate activities for children
> Dinner at The View Restaurant, Tobruk Sheep Farm and Hartley's Crocodile Adventure are booked as private events and not normally available to the general public.
> 
> Well, that's quite a steep difference between the ABD price and booking on your own. There are a few things that might justify that number. First is the internal flights. ABD is dealing with the airlines, handling luggage and seat assignments, and taking care of the transfers to hotels, so it will probably be the least stressful 3 flights possible. Next is the private transportation. I assumed using public transit in Sydney, which is very good and the hotel is pretty close to most of the activities anyway. Then I included rental cars in the other 3 locations, which ended up being surprisingly cheap. That being said, between the physical activities and flights this trip is exhausting. Having a luxury coach waiting to take you everywhere instead of having someone drive has tremendous value. Last are the private after-hours meals at the zoo, Sheep Farm, and Crocodile rescue. These are some of the exclusive experiences you get with ABD that you really can't replicate on your own. Your group basically gets the venue to themselves.
> 
> So for the value of the trip? If you only had 2 weeks to see Australia, then I don't think you can get much better than this, except maybe adding a pre-night in Sydney, because there isn't much time there. I would probably spend 3 weeks to justify the length of the flight from Michigan. Add a few more nights in each city to allow for more cultural activities and unguided hiking. However, that is more vacation time than most people have to spare, so I understand having to trim it down. So if that was the case, then I think it's actually worth the money as a once in a lifetime chance to see Australia. Getting to see the best of a massive, diverse country in 11 days is a huge challenge, and this trip really fits in a lot. That doesn't mean I'll be doing it any time soon, but in the future this trip is a real possibility if it's paired up with pre-nights in Sydney.



These are so awesome and helpful! Thank you so much for pulling it all together. I can't imagine the time that took! Pretty big premium on this one!


----------



## acndis

jimmymc said:


> Next is the private transportation. I assumed using public transit in Sydney, which is very good and the hotel is pretty close to most of the activities an



For the rental cars, gas is outrageously expensive in Oz.  It is prohibitive.  Also, managing the travel time would be a nightmare.  For us, we would go back to Australia on our own in a heartbeat.  It's really easy to navigate and people are so, so nice!  But for the first time, I needed all the extra help I could get.  It's huge and it's just really hard to know where to go.  You don't necessarily need a premium product like ABD (although it was great) but unless you know exactly where you want to go and what you want to do, a tour is the way to go!

If we go back to New Zealand (I really want to!), I would plan that one on my own but you really need at least 10 days.


----------



## jimmymc

acndis said:


> For the rental cars, gas is outrageously expensive in Oz.  It is prohibitive.  Also, managing the travel time would be a nightmare.  For us, we would go back to Australia on our own in a heartbeat.  It's really easy to navigate and people are so, so nice!  But for the first time, I needed all the extra help I could get.  It's huge and it's just really hard to know where to go.  You don't necessarily need a premium product like ABD (although it was great) but unless you know exactly where you want to go and what you want to do, a tour is the way to go!
> 
> If we go back to New Zealand (I really want to!), I would plan that one on my own but you really need at least 10 days.



The timing is really why I see the value in this trip more than some of the others, where mass transit is less available and walking isn't an option. I can get around a European city on my own, but coordinating multiple flights and cars is a ton of work.

I'm curious, how did ABD handle luggage on the internal flights? Did you have to check your own luggage in at the airport, or did you just show up and they took care of check in and handed you the boarding pass? Because bypassing the check in process is another huge time saver.


----------



## Cousin Orville

jimmymc said:


> I'm curious, how did ABD handle luggage on the internal flights? Did you have to check your own luggage in at the airport, or did you just show up and they took care of check in and handed you the boarding pass? Because bypassing the check in process is another huge time saver.



They carry all the bags for you and check them in.  If it's an internal flight (like within Australia), you go directly to the gate.  No messing with bags.  If it's an international flight (between HK and Mainland China) you have to present yourself at the check in counter when your bags are checked by the guides.


@jimmymc  Pretty cool breakdown.  I think it's helpful for people to see.  For me, the premium of not having to plan it out and having the guides' concierge services are particularly valuable.  However, as you start pushing to a family of 4 or 5 it becomes a more difficult decision for me.  We're still planning on a family ABD in Peru this Christmas, because it's too difficult (or at least stressful and time consuming) to plan that type of trip with 3 young kids.  And moving around the country on our own with the kids would be challenging.  We may consider Japan next year if it's released.

On the other hand, this past Christmas we went through a Portuguese travel specialist recommend by Conde Nast.  And they created an awesome 10 day trip for us with lots of little VIP experiences, very nice unique hotels, and private guides.   Even if ABD offered a trip to Portugal, this was about half the average cost.


----------



## jimmymc

Cousin Orville said:


> They carry all the bags for you and check them in.  If it's an internal flight (like within Australia), you go directly to the gate.  No messing with bags.  If it's an international flight (between HK and Mainland China) you have to present yourself at the check in counter when your bags are checked by the guides.
> 
> 
> @jimmymc  Pretty cool breakdown.  I think it's helpful for people to see.  For me, the premium of not having to plan it out and having the guides' concierge services are particularly valuable.  However, as you start pushing to a family of 4 or 5 it becomes a more difficult decision for me.  We're still planning on a family ABD in Peru this Christmas, because it's too difficult (or at least stressful and time consuming) to plan that type of trip with 3 young kids.  And moving around the country on our own with the kids would be challenging.  We may consider Japan next year if it's released.
> 
> On the other hand, this past Christmas we went through a Portuguese travel specialist recommend by Conde Nast.  And they created an awesome 10 day trip for us with lots of little VIP experiences, very nice unique hotels, and private guides.   Even if ABD offered a trip to Portugal, this was about half the average cost.



That's good to know how easy the flights are. I don't have kids, but I can only imagine how difficult it is having to be completely responsible for other people.


----------



## sayhello

jimmymc said:


> I'm curious, how did ABD handle luggage on the internal flights? Did you have to check your own luggage in at the airport, or did you just show up and they took care of check in and handed you the boarding pass? Because bypassing the check in process is another huge time saver.


And the other side of this is when you arrive at your internal destination.  You get off the plane, and leave the terminal to head to your motorcoach.    No fighting the crowds to get to the carousel to wait forever and pull your luggage off and roll it to your transportation.  It magically appears in your room at your destination!  Not having to check it in *or* pick it up is HUGE, especially if the trip has a lot of internal flights, like China does.

Sayhello


----------



## jimmymc

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> These are so awesome and helpful! Thank you so much for pulling it all together. I can't imagine the time that took! Pretty big premium on this one!



Huge premium, but it makes sense for such a long, complex trip. And it's fun looking up all these places! I rarely stay in hotels this nice, so seeing what's out there is fun.


----------



## RSM

Cousin Orville said:


> They carry all the bags for you and check them in.  If it's an internal flight (like within Australia), you go directly to the gate.  No messing with bags.  If it's an international flight (between HK and Mainland China) you have to present yourself at the check in counter when your bags are checked by the guides.



Wish it had been that way for us this past summer.  For the internal flights in Australia, we had to check our own bags.  They were unloaded from the bus, we picked them up at the curb and took them to ticketing/check in.


----------



## acndis

In Australia this year, we did have to wait in line to check in with our own bags.  Some felt it was more bag handling than on other ABDs but I did not have an issue with it.  Our trip was December and security was tight so that may have been why.  Airports were also very crowded.  We were expedited through group check in but still had to wait.  Again, not an issue for us but the baggage handling was not terribly different than if we went to the airport on our own.

However, at the destination, our bags were handled and delivered by ABD.  In some cases, we chose to collect and move our own bags so we could get them right away.


----------



## Cousin Orville

RSM said:


> Wish it had been that way for us this past summer.  For the internal flights in Australia, we had to check our own bags.  They were unloaded from the bus, we picked them up at the curb and took them to ticketing/check in.



You're right.  Thinking back on it, I do remember now checking our own bags in Sydney to Tasmania.  I remember because the flight was so early in the morning.  I don't think we had to do that for internal flights in China and Vietnam, but it could be selective memory.


----------



## sayhello

Cousin Orville said:


> You're right.  Thinking back on it, I do remember now checking our own bags in Sydney to Tasmania.  I remember because the flight was so early in the morning.  I don't think we had to do that for internal flights in China and Vietnam, but it could be selective memory.


For China, we only had to do it for Hong Kong to Beijing.  The rest were taken care of for us.

Sayhello


----------



## YayDisney

jimmymc said:


> I had enough fun with the Alaska trip I did some more research:
> 
> ABD Italy, July 27 through August 3, 2018
> $5,099 per adult x 2 = $10,198
> 
> Hotels:
> 
> All hotels assume 1 Queen/King or 2 doubles, whichever is cheaper, and double occupancy.
> 
> Gran Melia Rome Hotel, including breakfast, 2 nights = $1,112.73
> 
> Hotel Borgo di Cortefreda, including breakfast, 3 nights = $498
> 
> Hilton Molino Stucky, 2 nights = $651.41
> 
> Hotel Total = $2,262.14
> 
> Transportation:
> 
> This gets tricky. On the Alaska trip I assumed a rental car because there isn't much public transit. This time I'll try to use busses, trains, and metros, or a private car when applicable.
> 
> Transfer from Rome airport to hotel: $61.60
> 
> 48 hour bus/metro pass in Rome: $14.58
> 
> 1st class train from Rome to Orvieto: $22 x 2 = $44
> 
> 1st class train Orvieto to Florence: $39.80 x 2 = $79.60
> 
> Since the hotel is in a very rural area, we'll rent a car again in Florence.
> 
> Rental car, automatic, for 3 days, plus estimated $50 for gas = $236.43
> 
> Car takes care of all transportation in rural Italy
> 
> 1st class train, Florence to Venice: $83.66
> 
> 2 Day Vaporetto Pass: $34.96 x 2 = $69.92
> 
> Boat transfer from Venice to Airport: $17.48 x 2 = $34.96
> 
> Transportation Total: $624.75
> 
> Meals (all prices are for 2):
> 
> Day 1
> Welcome Dinner at Hotel: $174.71
> 
> Day 2
> Breakfast included in hotel
> Lunch at local restaurant: Estimated $60
> Dinner on your own
> 
> Day 3
> Breakfast included in hotel
> Lunch at local restaurant in Orvieto: Estimated $60
> Dinner at Ristorante Cortefreda: $111.82
> 
> Day 4
> Breakfast included in hotel
> Lunch at Fattoria Poggio Alloro: $228.29
> Dinner in a Castello: Can't find any prices, estimate $200
> 
> Day 5
> Breakfast included in hotel
> Lunch on your own in Florence
> Dinner on your own in Florence
> 
> Day 6
> Breakfast included in hotel
> Boxed lunch onboard train: $40
> Dinner on your own
> 
> Day 7
> Breakfast at hotel: $51.25
> Lunch on your own
> Dinner on The Jolly Roger: $256.25
> 
> Day 8
> Breakfast at hotel: $51.25
> 
> Food Total: $1233.57
> 
> Activities
> 
> Day 1
> Tour of the Colosseum and Roman Forum: $134.34
> 
> Day 2
> St. Peter's Basilica Skip the Line Tour: $44
> Rome Tour Bus: $53.04
> Rome Walking Tour: Free, guides work for tips, so ~$10 tip
> Vatican Museum and Sistine Chapel after dark: $815.34
> 
> Day 3
> On your own in Orvieto, lots of travel
> 
> Day 4
> Wine tasting: Free with meal price
> 
> Day 5
> Accademia Gallery Tickets/Tour: $53.58
> Palazzo Vecchio Tour: $75.89
> 
> Day 6
> Gondola Tour: $93.18
> Piazza San Marco Tour: $155.94
> 
> Day 7
> Venice Architecture Tour: Free w/ tips, ~$10
> Mask Making: $80
> 
> Day 8
> N/A
> 
> Activities Total: $1525.31
> 
> Summary:
> Lodging: $2,262.14
> Transportation: $624.75
> Meals: $1233.57
> Activities: $1525.31
> 
> Grand Total: $5,645.77
> 
> Price Difference: $10,198 - $5,645.77 = $4,552.23
> 
> Things included in ABD but not included in booking on your own:
> 
> 2 Guides familiar with the area acting as your personal concierge
> Luggage service at all hotels and the airport
> Private transportation that does not involve driving yourself or any public transit
> Several private meals at the restaurants mentioned above
> Separate activities for children
> 
> Some observations, comparing this trip witht the Alaska trip I looked at earlier:
> 
> Both trips are 8 days, 7 nights. Hotels are much less in Rome and rural Italy compared to Alaska. Transportation ended up being slightly cheaper as well, mostly because of the amount of mass transit. It would be interesting to see the price of having a car in Rome and Florence area, but parking and gas make it a little complicated to figure out the real price. Meals were more expensive in Italy, I'll address that in a minute. Activities were a bit more in Alaska, mostly because of the on your own time in several different cities. Overall I can navigate Italy pretty well on my own, so I would probably be more inclined to take the Alaska trip, but if I had kids and was trying to ferry them between different cities on public transit it could get pretty hectic and the trip might have more value.
> 
> My take on this trip: Like I said, I've been to Italy before and have no issues taking subways, buses, or walking long distances in cities, and I'm fine taking trains in between cities. Private car airport transfers are probably the only thing I would splurge on transport wise. The hotels in Rome is perfect. Walking distance to Vatican City, and a longer walk to the Forum area but still doable, and you pass by many sites on the way there.
> 
> Many of the places you get private tours of are easy to see on your own, and I don't know how much the guides add over a decent book about the site. Hop on, hop off tour buses are popular in Italy and a cheap way to see things while stopping wherever you want. The gondola rides are fun and easy enough to find. Most gondoliers are very knowledgeable about the city and can give you a tour and recommendations while on the ride. The after hours Vatican Museum tour looks amazing, I'm just not sure if it's worth the money. For reference, it's $16 to get in normally and the lines aren't that bad if you get there after lunch.
> 
> The food is an interesting case here. There a lots of meals on your own, however the ones ABD does provide are pretty amazing. 2 of them are Michelin Star restaurants, and the dinner cruise around Venice as your farewell dinner is a nice touch. I would usually skip the hotel breakfast in exchange for finding a local restaurant or going to the grocery store. While the fine dining restaurants in Italy are delicious, there is plenty of cheap, filling, delicious food around Italy.
> 
> In conclusion, like Alaska, I would probably skip the trip and book it on my own. I pack pretty light and don't buy too many huge souvenirs, so luggage service isn't that much of a value to me. I would also skip the hotel in the Italian countryside and stay in Florence, as the podcast team has done. I would love to see the countryside, but I would just take a bus somewhere for the day. There will be plenty of options leaving daily from all 3 cities. Florence is a spectacular place to stay in and just live like a local. It's also Italy's college town, so if you're young and want to meet locals and discover the nightlife this is a great place to do it.
> 
> Biggest tip for this trip: Book pre and post nights. You can explore the coast, go see Pompeii, and spend more time looking around the historical sites in Rome. And like Florence, Venice is just a great place to be, even if you just walk around, stop in a cafe, do some window shopping, and live like a local on the weekends. I highly recommend visiting Rome, Florence, and Venice in general.




Thank you for this!! I have gotten on and off this fence 15 times in the last week.  I keep going back and forth on the merits of $24,000 for a trip that I know for a fact I can do (and have done) SO much cheaper in a country my husband and I are already so familiar with. . . . using your calculations it would be a $9,000 price difference.  The more I consider this, the less i think I can justify it for Italy. . . . China on the other hand, sounds like the kind of place that would be very difficult to maneuver on our own and for which we could really use this kind of tour.  Back to the top of the fence I go . . . . sigh.


----------



## jimmymc

YayDisney said:


> Thank you for this!! I have gotten on and off this fence 15 times in the last week.  I keep going back and forth on the merits of $24,000 for a trip that I know for a fact I can do (and have done) SO much cheaper in a country my husband and I are already so familiar with. . . . using your calculations it would be a $9,000 price difference.  The more I consider this, the less i think I can justify it for Italy. . . . China on the other hand, sounds like the kind of place that would be very difficult to maneuver on our own and for which we could really use this kind of tour.  Back to the top of the fence I go . . . . sigh.



I think Europe in general is easier to navigate as an American who only speaks English. I haven't done China, but I looked at Australia, and with the internal flights and how packed the itinerary is, I actually think it's a decent value. I would prefer to spend 3-4 weeks in Australia, but if you only have 2 weeks of vacation to spare, then I think you get to do a ton of stuff. Having luggage service and guides at the airport is a big added value. Out of all the trips ABD does, the Vietnam trip looks the most worth it to me because of how exotic it is. I can see China being worth it as well, however that trip stays in larger cities with more tourist infrastructure. Just going by myself I would probably do China on my own, but with children I really see the value in ABD. I would probably extend my time to see the Shanghai and Hong Kong parks.


----------



## AdamEfimoff

compared to what?
to a high end private tour? no
to a cheap contiki one maybe
personally I would rather go local with a tour

My tour to Europe for 14 days cost 50000 dollars for two of us!


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## aggiedog

$50,000 had to have been a nice vacation.


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## AdamEfimoff

aggiedog said:


> $50,000 had to have been a nice vacation.


 
*money does not buy good trips
* good solid research makes good trips
* The trip was great

sorry my wording was crap


----------



## aggiedog

I agree money will not guarantee a good vacation, love, or any number of things in life. 

And quite honestly, for my life, $25k/person for the 6 of us is crazy talk, no matter how great it turned out. I’d have to then tell my kids “sorry, I picked that over college for you.”  

I’m having a hard time parsing your posts, but I hope your $50k was one of the good vacations.


----------



## AdamEfimoff

aggiedog said:


> I agree money will not guarantee a good vacation, love, or any number of things in life.
> 
> And quite honestly, for my life, $25k/person for the 6 of us is crazy talk, no matter how great it turned out. I’d have to then tell my kids “sorry, I picked that over college for you.”
> 
> I’m having a hard time parsing your posts, but I hope your $50k was one of the good vacations.



fixed. College is important. I never completed mine. But having the option is should always be there. Thanks for considering the future for your kids.


----------



## askias

Count me among those who believe that it can be worth it in certain circumstances.  I'm quite willing to wander around China by myself, but with the kid?  No way.  That's a place where I would invest in ABD.  To my mind, we only have a certain amount of years/vacations left before she's off doing her own thing, and I want to make the most of it.  But can I plan a trip to Italy or England for all of us and do fun things?  Absolutely.  I enjoy trip planning, and would only pay the ABD premium for experiences where I think they provide added value.


----------



## cruiser21

sayhello said:


> For China, we only had to do it for Hong Kong to Beijing.  The rest were taken care of for us.
> 
> Sayhello


How long ago did you do China and how was it? I have a son that would love this trip. Saving up for it will not be easy for me, but looking at the itinerary it looks worth it. I'm thinking maybe 2020/2021. We've traveled a lot abroad mostly cruising. I'm a pretty capable of doing things on my own. I never book cruise ship excursions, but China gives me a little pause. I would love to do this on some kind of organized tour. Financially it's a stretch for me. I need convincing.


----------



## sayhello

cruiser21 said:


> How long ago did you do China and how was it? I have a son that would love this trip. Saving up for it will not be easy for me, but looking at the itinerary it looks worth it. I'm thinking maybe 2020/2021. We've traveled a lot abroad mostly cruising. I'm a pretty capable of doing things on my own. I never book cruise ship excursions, but China gives me a little pause. I would love to do this on some kind of organized tour. Financially it's a stretch for me. I need convincing.


Hi!  I did China this past summer of 2017.  It was *AMAZING*!!!  China is just so much more than I ever imagined.  It's not cheap, but if you can manage it, it is *SO* worth it.  I had a lot of pre-conceptions about China that turned out to be totally wrong (in a good way!)  If you check out my signature, there's a link to the Trip Report that I'm posting for this ABD.  It's not done yet, but I think it gives a good impression of what the trip was like and what I thought about it.    Feel free to ask me *any* questions you'd like!  I'd be happy to convince you!!   (And I would *never* attempt something like China on my own!  It was really great having someone with us who knew how everything worked, taking care of the logisitics for us!)

Sayhello


----------



## cruiser21

sayhello said:


> Hi!  I did China this past summer of 2017.  It was *AMAZING*!!!  China is just so much more than I ever imagined.  It's not cheap, but if you can manage it, it is *SO* worth it.  I had a lot of pre-conceptions about China that turned out to be totally wrong (in a good way!)  If you check out my signature, there's a link to the Trip Report that I'm posting for this ABD.  It's not done yet, but I think it gives a good impression of what the trip was like and what I thought about it.    Feel free to ask me *any* questions you'd like!  I'd be happy to convince you!!   (And I would *never* attempt something like China on my own!  It was really great having someone with us who knew how everything worked, taking care of the logisitics for us!)
> 
> Sayhello


It's doable. It would just mean one vacation that year. I don't think I would attempt China on my own. I'm definetely going to check out your trip report. What are the cancellation policies are they strict as cruises?


----------



## sayhello

cruiser21 said:


> It's doable. It would just mean one vacation that year. I don't think I would attempt China on my own. I'm definetely going to check out your trip report. What are the cancellation policies are they strict as cruises?


Your deposit (10% of the trip cost) is non-refundable after 14 days (but transferable to another trip).  Paid in Full is 120 days before the trip departure date.

Here's the cancellation policy, per the ABD website FAQ (and I verified this with the reservation confirmation I got from ABD when I made my reservation.  That's the ultimate authority on the policy.)

*Days Prior to Vacation Commencement Date*  -- *Fee Amount*
120 days or more --  Deposit per Guest
119-90 days  --  50% of vacation package price per Guest
89-46 days  -- 75% of vacation package price per Guest
45 days or less  -- 100% of vacation package price per Guest 

Let me know if you have any other questions!

Sayhello


----------



## cruiser21

jimmymc said:


> I think Europe in general is easier to navigate as an American who only speaks English. I haven't done China, but I looked at Australia, and with the internal flights and how packed the itinerary is, I actually think it's a decent value. I would prefer to spend 3-4 weeks in Australia, but if you only have 2 weeks of vacation to spare, then I think you get to do a ton of stuff. Having luggage service and guides at the airport is a big added value. Out of all the trips ABD does, the Vietnam trip looks the most worth it to me because of how exotic it is. I can see China being worth it as well, however that trip stays in larger cities with more tourist infrastructure. Just going by myself I would probably do China on my own, but with children I really see the value in ABD. I would probably extend my time to see the Shanghai and Hong Kong parks.



I agree unless you have a huge amount of disposable income I wouldn't spend that kind of money for a land trip to Europe. I Definitely wouldn't spend it in Iceland. Rent a car and drive around the island and explore one your own. Iceland has to be the safest and easiest country in the world to explore.

 As someone who has cruised DCL in Europe and seen the prices go up and up. ABD prices aren't looking that far off anymore.  

 China, Australia, Vietnam and Peru look amazing to me. Worth the money? I guess I'm going to try one and find out. I also travel with a teen so I need a little bit of the "fun factor" that is provided in something like a cruise. ABD looks like it could provide that if there's other kids to socialize with. 

When do they release 2019. I'm assuming it around the time they release the Summer cruises. Do prices go up like cruises do or is it a set price?


----------



## calypso726

cruiser21 said:


> I agree unless you have a huge amount of disposable income I wouldn't spend that kind of money for a land trip to Europe. I Definitely wouldn't spend it in Iceland. Rent a car and drive around the island and explore one your own. Iceland has to be the safest and easiest country in the world to explore.
> 
> As someone who has cruised DCL in Europe and seen the prices go up and up. ABD prices aren't looking that far off anymore.
> 
> China, Australia, Vietnam and Peru look amazing to me. Worth the money? I guess I'm going to try one and find out. I also travel with a teen so I need a little bit of the "fun factor" that is provided in something like a cruise. ABD looks like it could provide that if there's other kids to socialize with.
> 
> When do they release 2019. I'm assuming it around the time they release the Summer cruises. Do prices go up like cruises do or is it a set price?



There are ways to do similar trips for less money and Europe is is easy on your own. I have traveled to Europe with ABD and also on my own. The experience definitely won't be the same and there are intangibles that will be worth it to some and not to others.  I will share a couple of my own examples from some trips to Europe with ABD.

Scotland, first year itinerary and a private flight from Isle of Skye to Isle of Lewis plus the entire itinerary. I would never have been able to do everything we did and in the same time frame. The logistics were daunting. Launching canoes off Urquhart Castle on Loch Ness. Only ABD is allowed to do that. Paris and no waiting in line at the Lourve was very nice! Italy and seeing the Vatican museum and Sistine Chapel without a bazillion people and just our group after hours and being allowed to take pictures in the Sistine Chapel. That wasn't happening on my own. There are many other immersive experiences that ABD adds to the itineraries that simply aren't things one can do on their own. I speak for myself when I say while reading an itinerary, sometimes those experiences seem underwhelming and almost like a filler and nothing to get excited about. Then when I experienced them I come to realize they were a trip highlight and am so glad I got to have that experience. DH and my mom have said the same thing. At this point, if it is a country I haven't visited and that I want to visit, I will go with ABD without looking at the itinerary a whole lot. I check out the highlights, if there is something missing that I want to see, then I will add pre or post days and do those things on my own. If I have visited the country already, then I will scrutinize the itinerary, like Iceland. I'd already done every highlight on the trip so we didn't book it and decided on China for this year.


Generally, in mid to late May. Summer cruises are usually released before ABD releases the trips. Prices go up just like the cruises do. DVC members do get opening day pricing though.


----------



## cruiser21

calypso726 said:


> There are ways to do similar trips for less money and Europe is is easy on your own. I have traveled to Europe with ABD and also on my own. The experience definitely won't be the same and there are intangibles that will be worth it to some and not to others.  I will share a couple of my own examples from some trips to Europe with ABD.
> 
> Scotland, first year itinerary and a private flight from Isle of Skye to Isle of Lewis plus the entire itinerary. I would never have been able to do everything we did and in the same time frame. The logistics were daunting. Launching canoes off Urquhart Castle on Loch Ness. Only ABD is allowed to do that. Paris and no waiting in line at the Lourve was very nice! Italy and seeing the Vatican museum and Sistine Chapel without a bazillion people and just our group after hours and being allowed to take pictures in the Sistine Chapel. That wasn't happening on my own. There are many other immersive experiences that ABD adds to the itineraries that simply aren't things one can do on their own. I speak for myself when I say while reading an itinerary, sometimes those experiences seem underwhelming and almost like a filler and nothing to get excited about. Then when I experienced them I come to realize they were a trip highlight and am so glad I got to have that experience. DH and my mom have said the same thing. At this point, if it is a country I haven't visited and that I want to visit, I will go with ABD without looking at the itinerary a whole lot. I check out the highlights, if there is something missing that I want to see, then I will add pre or post days and do those things on my own. If I have visited the country already, then I will scrutinize the itinerary, like Iceland. I'd already done every highlight on the trip so we didn't book it and decided on China for this year.
> 
> 
> Generally, in mid to late May. Summer cruises are usually released before ABD releases the trips. Prices go up just like the cruises do. DVC members do get opening day pricing though.


Good to know about the pricing. I know you can book ABD on the ships. I don't know if there's any incentive to do so. I was going to ask on our last cruise, but never got around to it. So the prices I'm looking at for 2018 may have originally been lower?


----------



## calypso726

cruiser21 said:


> Good to know about the pricing. I know you can book ABD on the ships. I don't know if there's any incentive to do so. I was going to ask on our last cruise, but never got around to it. So the prices I'm looking at for 2018 may have originally been lower?



We booked China on day one for the adults only May 20, 2018 trip and it was $7899 per person. Today the same trips and same date is $9199 per person.

To be honest, I don’t recall if there is or isn’t an incentive for booking ABD on DCL. We do one or two DCL cruises each year but have always had our ABD trip already booked before sailing.


----------



## cruiser21

calypso726 said:


> We booked China on day one for the adults only May 20, 2018 trip and it was $7899 per person. Today the same trips and same date is $9199 per person.
> 
> To be honest, I don’t recall if there is or isn’t an incentive for booking ABD on DCL. We do one or two DCL cruises each year but have always had our ABD trip already booked before sailing.


I think I've seen brochures that say 500.00 dollars off per person. Don't quote me on that though. We're going to London in September for the transatlantic cruise. I will check when I'm onboard. 

Do you know when they release for the following year?


----------



## calypso726

cruiser21 said:


> Do you know when they release for the following year?



Usually in May. I think they once released in April but just for the new river cruise when it came out if memory serves.


----------



## AquaDame

jimmymc said:


> Guess who's back with another price comparison!
> 
> ABD Australia





Any chance China or S Africa is next...? We're almost certainly going to do China on our own this November. The price has gone up too much since they opened to make it worth it but I was curious....! S Africa I am still waffling on. I really want to go to Kenya/Tanzania and see Victoria Falls so we may have to use another tour group for that one. I *think* we might be OK doing S Africa on our own too - especially since it seems like once you get to Kapama they take the reins. 



cruiser21 said:


> I think I've seen brochures that say 500.00 dollars off per person. Don't quote me on that though. We're going to London in September for the transatlantic cruise. I will check when I'm onboard.
> 
> Do you know when they release for the following year?



You are correct - it was only for specific itineraries and dates when I sailed last month.


----------



## jimmymc

AquaDame said:


> Any chance China or S Africa is next...? We're almost certainly going to do China on our own this November. The price has gone up too much since they opened to make it worth it but I was curious....! S Africa I am still waffling on. I really want to go to Kenya/Tanzania and see Victoria Falls so we may have to use another tour group for that one. I *think* we might be OK doing S Africa on our own too - especially since it seems like once you get to Kapama they take the reins.
> 
> 
> 
> You are correct - it was only for specific itineraries and dates when I sailed last month.



South Africa might be hard, since I think so many people do some sort of organized tour. I personally would like to visit the Kapama River Lodge and just stay there for a week.

China, on the other hand, I might take a look at. The schedule for China is pretty crazy, including 2 flights in one day. This might be similar to Australia where it's basically impossible to do more than the ABD does in 12 days.


----------



## jimmymc

cruiser21 said:


> I agree unless you have a huge amount of disposable income I wouldn't spend that kind of money for a land trip to Europe. I Definitely wouldn't spend it in Iceland. Rent a car and drive around the island and explore one your own. Iceland has to be the safest and easiest country in the world to explore.
> 
> As someone who has cruised DCL in Europe and seen the prices go up and up. ABD prices aren't looking that far off anymore.
> 
> China, Australia, Vietnam and Peru look amazing to me. Worth the money? I guess I'm going to try one and find out. I also travel with a teen so I need a little bit of the "fun factor" that is provided in something like a cruise. ABD looks like it could provide that if there's other kids to socialize with.
> 
> When do they release 2019. I'm assuming it around the time they release the Summer cruises. Do prices go up like cruises do or is it a set price?



I definitely agree with Iceland. I feel the same way about Alaska and some of the western US trips. I would rather get a car and explore on my own. The trips really don't build in enough time for just enjoying nature or doing any serious hikes. Also with WOW and Iceland Air spreading in the US, it's pretty cheap to do a quick trip there.

Without having been on an ABD before, Vietnam looks the most worth the price. Peru is very safe and is getting easier with a recent boom in tourism thanks to Machu Picchu. Not many people who travel there go in luxury conditions like an ABD would, but I think that's more authentic. I personally think any of those 4 trips would be fun for a teen. They all have opportunities for outdoor activities like hiking or seeing huge historical sights. Australia and Peru are definitely more nature oriented, and all 4 have a lot of history that people from North America or Europe might not know about.

2019 dates will probably come out in May, and the prices do go up like a cruise. Booking the day it's released is going to be cheapest.


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## AquaDame

jimmymc said:


> South Africa might be hard, since I think so many people do some sort of organized tour. I personally would like to visit the Kapama River Lodge and just stay there for a week.
> 
> China, on the other hand, I might take a look at. The schedule for China is pretty crazy, including 2 flights in one day. This might be similar to Australia where it's basically impossible to do more than the ABD does in 12 days.



Sweet! We are definitely not doing the part that goes up to Xian. I don't think we could do two flights in one day without me stressing about it (and being annoyed with luggage!). We have seen the terra-cotta warriors elsewhere in the world already, so we will live.  

I'm really tempted to do the Vietnam one since those aren't countries we'd relish figuring out on our own, but once again my husband isn't very interested in it.  I'm sure I will drag him sometime (poor guy - NOT) since I don't want to pay the single supplement on that one.


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## sayhello

AquaDame said:


> Sweet! We are definitely not doing the part that goes up to Xian. I don't think we could do two flights in one day without me stressing about it (and being annoyed with luggage!). We have seen the terra-cotta warriors elsewhere in the world already, so we will live.


Having seen the Terra Cotta Warriors in Xi'an in the context of the excavation pits, I can tell you, having seen the warriors elsewhere in the world is, in my opinion, *NOT* the same as seeing them in Xi'an.  Not by a long shot.    You don't have to do two flights in one day.  ABD does that because it was the only way to fit them in without messing up the flow of the trip, or at the least having to add a day or two to the itinerary, which would make it even *more* expensive.  It was a rough day, but I would not have missed our time in Xi'an for anything.  

You could easily spend the night in Xi'an and head out the next day.  

Sayhello


----------



## AquaDame

sayhello said:


> Having seen the Terra Cotta Warriors in Xi'an in the context of the excavation pits, I can tell you, having seen the warriors elsewhere in the world is, in my opinion, *NOT* the same as seeing them in Xi'an.  Not by a long shot.    You don't have to do two flights in one day.  ABD does that because it was the only way to fit them in without messing up the flow of the trip, or at the least having to add a day or two to the itinerary, which would make it even *more* expensive.  It was a rough day, but I would not have missed our time in Xi'an for anything.
> 
> You could easily spend the night in Xi'an and head out the next day.
> 
> Sayhello



That's good to hear but unfortunately for us ignorance will have to be bliss - we just don't have the time off to justify adding extra days to an already two week vacation just to see them. I've seen some, so I'm not going to beat myself up about it.


----------



## jimmymc

ABD China, Jul 22, 2018 - Aug 2, 2018
$9,399 per adult x 2 = $18,798

Hotels:
All hotels assume 1 Queen/King or 2 doubles, whichever is cheaper, and double occupancy.

The Peninsula Hong Kong, 2 nights = $1,117.25

The Peninsula Beijing, 3 nights = $726.69

The Ritz-Carlton, Chengdu, 2 nights = $356.88

The Shangri-La Hotel, Guilin, 2 nights = $349.97

The Peninsula Shanghai, 2 nights = $740.98

Hotel Total = $3,291.77

Transportation:
(All prices for 1 car or 2 public transport/flight tickets)

Transfer from Kong Kong Airport to hotel: $50
3 day Hong Kong public transport pass: $50
Transfer from Kong Kong Airport to hotel: $50

Flight, Hong Kong to Beijing: $450
Beijing airport transfer: $30
Beijing subway tickets: $5 (estimate, subway costs $.32/ride)
Beijing airport transfer: $30

Flight, Beijing to Chendu: $600
Chengdu airport transfer: $10
Chengdu subway estimate: $5
Chengdu airport transfer: $10

Flight, Chengdu to Xi'an: $400
Taxi in Xi'an to Terracotta Warriors and back to airport: $50

Flight, Xi'an to Guilin: $600
Guilin Airport transfer: $20
Guilin taxis: $10
Car, Yangshuo to Guilin: $40
Guilin Airport transfer: $20

Flight, Guilin to Shanghai: $450
Shanghai airport transfer: $25
Shanghai public transport: $20
Shanghai airport transfer: $25

Transportation Total = $2,950

Meals (all prices are for 2):

Day 1
Welcome dinner at hotel: $227

Day 2
Breakfast at hotel: $110
Lunch at the Peak Lookout: $104
Dinner on your own

Day 3
Breakfast at hotel: $110
Lunch on plane: $30
Dinner at Duck De Chine: $120

Day 4
Breakfast at hotel: $75
Lunch at Huajia Yiyuan: $40
Dinner on your own

Day 5
Breakfast at hotel: $75
Lunch at The Schoolhouse in Mutianyu: $60
Dinner on your own

Day 6
Breakfast at hotel: $75
Lunch at The Noble House Restaurant: $60
Dinner at Ba Guo By Yi Restaurant: $25

Day 7
Breakfast at hotel: $83
Lunch at Sichuan Hot Pot restaurant: $40
Dinner on your own

Day 8
Breakfast at hotel: $83
Lunch at Terracotta Museum: $20
Dinner at Xi'an airport: $40

Day 9
Breakfast at hotel included
Lunch on boat: $20
Dinner at hotel: $60

Day 10
Breakfast at hotel included
Lunch in flight: $20
Dinner at Din Tai Fung: $65

Day 11
Breakfast at hotel: $80
Lunch on your own
Dinner at Shanghai Disney: $70

Day 12
Breakfast at hotel: $80

Food Total = $1772

Activities (all prices for 2)

Day 1
On your own

Day 2
Hong Kong Tour: Free ($5 tip)
The Peak Tram: $25
Hong Kong Disneyland: $158

Day 3
On your own

Day 4
Beijing Temple Tour: $11
Tiananmen Square and Forbidden City Tour: $120

Day 5
Great Wall of China Tour: $185

Day 6
Hutong Pedicab Tour: $70

Day 7
Chengdu Panda Visit: $160
Sichuan Opera: $100

Day 8
Xi'an Terracotta Museum Tour: $258

Day 9
Guilin Boat Tour $144

Day 10
Tai Chi: $20
Shanghai Circus World and Acrobat Show: $214

Day 11
Old Shanghai Yu Garden Tour: $80
Shanghai Disneyland: $160

Day 12
Departure

Activities Total = $1,710

Grand Total = $9,723.77

Price Difference: $18,798 - $9,723.77 = $9,074.23

Things included in ABD but not included in booking on your own:
2 Guides familiar with the area acting as your personal concierge
Luggage service at all hotels and the airport
Private transportation that does not involve driving yourself or any public transit
Several private meals at the restaurants mentioned above
Separate activities for children

Another note: all of the airports you visit have public transport options, and most of them are right off the subway. However, I chose to factor in the price of a taxi or private car to account for luggage and the luxury of not having to drag it through the subway system.

So, this may just be ABD's most ambitious trip, including 5 internal flights in 12 days! But all things considered, you really do get a good overview of China's big cities in 12 days. Like the Australia trip I looked at last time, there are a lot of activities packed into these 12 days, making it more difficult to do on your own than something like the Italy or London and Paris trip. And having Disney handle your luggage on all 5 of those flights alone might be worth the price of the trip.

So, is this one worth it? In my eyes, if you only had 2 weeks off and were possibly never coming back to China, then yes, I think this might really be worth the money. Like I mentioned with Australia, I would prefer to take 3 weeks and move at a slower pace, but that's not an option for everyone. Getting to visit 6 cities in 12 days is difficult even if they are close together, but this tour has you flying across a huge country multiple times. There's even one point where you have 2 flights in one day. The amount of planning and logistics that go into those is much higher than most ABD trips, so having all the flights, transfers, and local transportation taken care of, and in private cars/motorcoaches instead of using public transit, is an enormous value. And if you don't speak Chinese, then trying to arrange everything is even more difficult. Another benefit is that ABD really ups the VIP experience here, even relative to other trips. Having pre-arranged private meals in well known restaurants or at landmarks is a nice bonus to the regular ABD treatment. So, all together, I believe this trip has the most value of any of the others relative to the price of doing it on your own. I personally feel like China is much more foreign than Europe, so having the guides to help and all the activities pre-arranged by someone who knows what they're doing would push me towards the trip.

Before this turns into rambling, what do you think? Would you even attempt a trip like this on your own? Any suggestions for the next trip I price out?


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

@jimmymc I did the ABD China trip (before they changed the itinerary) and there is NO WAY I'd attempt it on my own.  The logistics alone would be the main reason, the language barrier a close second (especially in Beijing).

Good luck with what you decide.


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## CaliforniaGirl09

jimmymc said:


> ABD China, Jul 22, 2018 - Aug 2, 2018
> $9,399 per adult x 2 = $18,798
> 
> Hotels:
> All hotels assume 1 Queen/King or 2 doubles, whichever is cheaper, and double occupancy.
> 
> The Peninsula Hong Kong, 2 nights = $1,117.25
> 
> The Peninsula Beijing, 3 nights = $726.69
> 
> The Ritz-Carlton, Chengdu, 2 nights = $356.88
> 
> The Shangri-La Hotel, Guilin, 2 nights = $349.97
> 
> The Peninsula Shanghai, 2 nights = $740.98
> 
> Hotel Total = $3,291.77
> 
> Transportation:
> (All prices for 1 car or 2 public transport/flight tickets)
> 
> Transfer from Kong Kong Airport to hotel: $50
> 3 day Hong Kong public transport pass: $50
> Transfer from Kong Kong Airport to hotel: $50
> 
> Flight, Hong Kong to Beijing: $450
> Beijing airport transfer: $30
> Beijing subway tickets: $5 (estimate, subway costs $.32/ride)
> Beijing airport transfer: $30
> 
> Flight, Beijing to Chendu: $600
> Chengdu airport transfer: $10
> Chengdu subway estimate: $5
> Chengdu airport transfer: $10
> 
> Flight, Chengdu to Xi'an: $400
> Taxi in Xi'an to Terracotta Warriors and back to airport: $50
> 
> Flight, Xi'an to Guilin: $600
> Guilin Airport transfer: $20
> Guilin taxis: $10
> Car, Yangshuo to Guilin: $40
> Guilin Airport transfer: $20
> 
> Flight, Guilin to Shanghai: $450
> Shanghai airport transfer: $25
> Shanghai public transport: $20
> Shanghai airport transfer: $25
> 
> Transportation Total = $2,950
> 
> Meals (all prices are for 2):
> 
> Day 1
> Welcome dinner at hotel: $227
> 
> Day 2
> Breakfast at hotel: $110
> Lunch at the Peak Lookout: $104
> Dinner on your own
> 
> Day 3
> Breakfast at hotel: $110
> Lunch on plane: $30
> Dinner at Duck De Chine: $120
> 
> Day 4
> Breakfast at hotel: $75
> Lunch at Huajia Yiyuan: $40
> Dinner on your own
> 
> Day 5
> Breakfast at hotel: $75
> Lunch at The Schoolhouse in Mutianyu: $60
> Dinner on your own
> 
> Day 6
> Breakfast at hotel: $75
> Lunch at The Noble House Restaurant: $60
> Dinner at Ba Guo By Yi Restaurant: $25
> 
> Day 7
> Breakfast at hotel: $83
> Lunch at Sichuan Hot Pot restaurant: $40
> Dinner on your own
> 
> Day 8
> Breakfast at hotel: $83
> Lunch at Terracotta Museum: $20
> Dinner at Xi'an airport: $40
> 
> Day 9
> Breakfast at hotel included
> Lunch on boat: $20
> Dinner at hotel: $60
> 
> Day 10
> Breakfast at hotel included
> Lunch in flight: $20
> Dinner at Din Tai Fung: $65
> 
> Day 11
> Breakfast at hotel: $80
> Lunch on your own
> Dinner at Shanghai Disney: $70
> 
> Day 12
> Breakfast at hotel: $80
> 
> Food Total = $1772
> 
> Activities (all prices for 2)
> 
> Day 1
> On your own
> 
> Day 2
> Hong Kong Tour: Free ($5 tip)
> The Peak Tram: $25
> Hong Kong Disneyland: $158
> 
> Day 3
> On your own
> 
> Day 4
> Beijing Temple Tour: $11
> Tiananmen Square and Forbidden City Tour: $120
> 
> Day 5
> Great Wall of China Tour: $185
> 
> Day 6
> Hutong Pedicab Tour: $70
> 
> Day 7
> Chengdu Panda Visit: $160
> Sichuan Opera: $100
> 
> Day 8
> Xi'an Terracotta Museum Tour: $258
> 
> Day 9
> Guilin Boat Tour $144
> 
> Day 10
> Tai Chi: $20
> Shanghai Circus World and Acrobat Show: $214
> 
> Day 11
> Old Shanghai Yu Garden Tour: $80
> Shanghai Disneyland: $160
> 
> Day 12
> Departure
> 
> Activities Total = $1,710
> 
> Grand Total = $9,723.77
> 
> Price Difference: $18,798 - $9,723.77 = $9,074.23
> 
> Things included in ABD but not included in booking on your own:
> 2 Guides familiar with the area acting as your personal concierge
> Luggage service at all hotels and the airport
> Private transportation that does not involve driving yourself or any public transit
> Several private meals at the restaurants mentioned above
> Separate activities for children
> 
> Another note: all of the airports you visit have public transport options, and most of them are right off the subway. However, I chose to factor in the price of a taxi or private car to account for luggage and the luxury of not having to drag it through the subway system.
> 
> So, this may just be ABD's most ambitious trip, including 5 internal flights in 12 days! But all things considered, you really do get a good overview of China's big cities in 12 days. Like the Australia trip I looked at last time, there are a lot of activities packed into these 12 days, making it more difficult to do on your own than something like the Italy or London and Paris trip. And having Disney handle your luggage on all 5 of those flights alone might be worth the price of the trip.
> 
> So, is this one worth it? In my eyes, if you only had 2 weeks off and were possibly never coming back to China, then yes, I think this might really be worth the money. Like I mentioned with Australia, I would prefer to take 3 weeks and move at a slower pace, but that's not an option for everyone. Getting to visit 6 cities in 12 days is difficult even if they are close together, but this tour has you flying across a huge country multiple times. There's even one point where you have 2 flights in one day. The amount of planning and logistics that go into those is much higher than most ABD trips, so having all the flights, transfers, and local transportation taken care of, and in private cars/motorcoaches instead of using public transit, is an enormous value. And if you don't speak Chinese, then trying to arrange everything is even more difficult. Another benefit is that ABD really ups the VIP experience here, even relative to other trips. Having pre-arranged private meals in well known restaurants or at landmarks is a nice bonus to the regular ABD treatment. So, all together, I believe this trip has the most value of any of the others relative to the price of doing it on your own. I personally feel like China is much more foreign than Europe, so having the guides to help and all the activities pre-arranged by someone who knows what they're doing would push me towards the trip.
> 
> Before this turns into rambling, what do you think? Would you even attempt a trip like this on your own? Any suggestions for the next trip I price out?


This is so interesting as always! Love that you do this. We did China last summer and it was amazing and well worth the premium. I’d put the price tag on some of the experiences higher—especially things like club 33 which were irreplaceable—but that is what makes pricing these things so difficult. I think my alcohol alone was $70 !Like pp I would never have attempted china on my own. Thanks for all the hard work! I’d love japan when it is announced, although it may not help me as I’ll be jumping right away if itinerary holds up to expectations.


----------



## jimmymc

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> This is so interesting as always! Love that you do this. We did China last summer and it was amazing and well worth the premium. I’d put the price tag on some of the experiences higher—especially things like club 33 which were irreplaceable—but that is what makes pricing these things so difficult. I think my alcohol alone was $70 !Like pp I would never have attempted china on my own. Thanks for all the hard work! I’d love japan when it is announced, although it may not help me as I’ll be jumping right away if itinerary holds up to expectations.



Which dinner was in Club 33? I'm guessing Club 33 was in the Farewell dinner, but the ABD website only listed dinner in Shanghai Disneyland, so I assumed it was just a normal table service restaurant. I can't wait to see what they do in Japan.


----------



## sayhello

jimmymc said:


> Which dinner was in Club 33? I'm guessing Club 33 was in the Farewell dinner, but the ABD website only listed dinner in Shanghai Disneyland, so I assumed it was just a normal table service restaurant. I can't wait to see what they do in Japan.


It is the Farewell dinner.  I think they try and keep it as a surprise (not everyone posts on the DISBoards and knows about this.    )  I was on the first departure of the new itinerary with @CaliforniaGirl09, and for us, it *was* a surprise!  Everyone I know who took this trip last year had the Farewell dinner in Club 33.  It was an AMAZING way to finish the trip.  (You also get to watch the fireworks from the balcony off Club 33.  The perfect vantage point!!)  SUCH an amazing end to an amazing trip!

They may also not list it just *in case* Club 33 isn't available.

Sayhello


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

jimmymc said:


> Which dinner was in Club 33? I'm guessing Club 33 was in the Farewell dinner, but the ABD website only listed dinner in Shanghai Disneyland, so I assumed it was just a normal table service restaurant. I can't wait to see what they do in Japan.


Yep, SayHello beat me!


----------



## OhanaCuz

jimmymc said:


> So, is this one worth it? In my eyes, if you only had 2 weeks off and were possibly never coming back to China, then yes, I think this might really be worth the money. Like I mentioned with Australia, I would prefer to take 3 weeks and move at a slower pace, but that's not an option for everyone. Getting to visit 6 cities in 12 days is difficult even if they are close together, but this tour has you flying across a huge country multiple times. There's even one point where you have 2 flights in one day. The amount of planning and logistics that go into those is much higher than most ABD trips, so having all the flights, transfers, and local transportation taken care of, and in private cars/motorcoaches instead of using public transit, is an enormous value. And if you don't speak Chinese, then trying to arrange everything is even more difficult. Another benefit is that ABD really ups the VIP experience here, even relative to other trips. Having pre-arranged private meals in well known restaurants or at landmarks is a nice bonus to the regular ABD treatment. So, all together, I believe this trip has the most value of any of the others relative to the price of doing it on your own. I personally feel like China is much more foreign than Europe, so having the guides to help and all the activities pre-arranged by someone who knows what they're doing would push me towards the trip.



I found this fascinating. Thanks for taking the time to post time.


----------



## AquaDame

jimmymc said:


> ABD China, Jul 22, 2018 - Aug 2, 2018
> $9,399 per adult x 2 = $18,798
> 
> Grand Total = $9,723.77
> 
> Price Difference: $18,798 - $9,723.77 = $9,074.23
> 
> Things included in ABD but not included in booking on your own:
> 2 Guides familiar with the area acting as your personal concierge
> Luggage service at all hotels and the airport
> Private transportation that does not involve driving yourself or any public transit
> Several private meals at the restaurants mentioned above
> Separate activities for children
> 
> Another note: all of the airports you visit have public transport options, and most of them are right off the subway. However, I chose to factor in the price of a taxi or private car to account for luggage and the luxury of not having to drag it through the subway system.
> 
> So, this may just be ABD's most ambitious trip, including 5 internal flights in 12 days! But all things considered, you really do get a good overview of China's big cities in 12 days. Like the Australia trip I looked at last time, there are a lot of activities packed into these 12 days, making it more difficult to do on your own than something like the Italy or London and Paris trip. And having Disney handle your luggage on all 5 of those flights alone might be worth the price of the trip.
> 
> So, is this one worth it? In my eyes, if you only had 2 weeks off and were possibly never coming back to China, then yes, I think this might really be worth the money. Like I mentioned with Australia, I would prefer to take 3 weeks and move at a slower pace, but that's not an option for everyone. Getting to visit 6 cities in 12 days is difficult even if they are close together, but this tour has you flying across a huge country multiple times. There's even one point where you have 2 flights in one day. The amount of planning and logistics that go into those is much higher than most ABD trips, so having all the flights, transfers, and local transportation taken care of, and in private cars/motorcoaches instead of using public transit, is an enormous value. And if you don't speak Chinese, then trying to arrange everything is even more difficult. Another benefit is that ABD really ups the VIP experience here, even relative to other trips. Having pre-arranged private meals in well known restaurants or at landmarks is a nice bonus to the regular ABD treatment. So, all together, I believe this trip has the most value of any of the others relative to the price of doing it on your own. I personally feel like China is much more foreign than Europe, so having the guides to help and all the activities pre-arranged by someone who knows what they're doing would push me towards the trip.
> 
> Before this turns into rambling, what do you think? Would you even attempt a trip like this on your own? Any suggestions for the next trip I price out?



Interesting.... so even though it is DOUBLE the price you think its worth it in our case... It's going to have to be a moot point now since our dates aren't covered by ABD but we are going to certainly try to mimic something similar. I'm choosing to do an entire day as a Panda Keeper in Chengdu for instance, which isn't something Disney would do. The 2 flights in one day is the Xian trip, right? For the terra-cotta warriors? Turns out its pretty easy to do this - I've contacted a group that gives you the option of doing a day trip by plane or you can do a bullet train (or even overnight train if you wish). I think we are going to go from Chengdu and spend one night in Xian then head onward to Beijing since someone (I think sayhello?) waxed poetic which helped me research how easy it was to add it. We'll have 3 nights in Hong Kong, 3 nights in Chengdu, 1 night in Xian, 3 nights in Beijing and 4 nights in Shanghai.


----------



## sayhello

AquaDame said:


> Interesting.... so even though it is DOUBLE the price you think its worth it in our case... It's going to have to be a moot point now since our dates aren't covered by ABD but we are going to certainly try to mimic something similar. I'm choosing to do an entire day as a Panda Keeper in Chengdu for instance, which isn't something Disney would do. The 2 flights in one day is the Xian trip, right? For the terra-cotta warriors? Turns out its pretty easy to do this - I've contacted a group that gives you the option of doing a day trip by plane or you can do a bullet train (or even overnight train if you wish). I think we are going to go from Chengdu and spend one night in Xian then head onward to Beijing since someone (I think sayhello?) waxed poetic which helped me research how easy it was to add it. We'll have 3 nights in Hong Kong, 3 nights in Chengdu, 1 night in Xian, 3 nights in Beijing and 4 nights in Shanghai.


  My work is complete! 

Sayhello


----------



## sabrecmc

Back in 2006, we did a tour from Beijing to Xian that included our in-country flights, hotel in Xian, guide, driver and vehicle and all entrance fees. It was very reasonable.  I think at that time, the 2 night trip for everything for two people was maybe around $1400 or something.  I can't remember for sure but it wasn't much.  Totally doable to arrange all of this on your own from the states, even with the language barrier. 

We plan to go back to China in a few years and I'm not sure about using ABD or not.  It seems like a great trip, but that is very pricey, and we want some time to do things like visit the province where my daughter is from and meet her foster family, so logistically, I don't know.  There is something to be said for a guide handling things for you, but that can be arranged with Chinese guides who speak great English and you aren't with a big group, so there are a lot of options.


----------



## jimmymc

AquaDame said:


> Interesting.... so even though it is DOUBLE the price you think its worth it in our case... It's going to have to be a moot point now since our dates aren't covered by ABD but we are going to certainly try to mimic something similar. I'm choosing to do an entire day as a Panda Keeper in Chengdu for instance, which isn't something Disney would do. The 2 flights in one day is the Xian trip, right? For the terra-cotta warriors? Turns out its pretty easy to do this - I've contacted a group that gives you the option of doing a day trip by plane or you can do a bullet train (or even overnight train if you wish). I think we are going to go from Chengdu and spend one night in Xian then head onward to Beijing since someone (I think sayhello?) waxed poetic which helped me research how easy it was to add it. We'll have 3 nights in Hong Kong, 3 nights in Chengdu, 1 night in Xian, 3 nights in Beijing and 4 nights in Shanghai.



I actually looked around after and found the same info about the terra-cotta warriors. It is apparently a common thing just to fly in for the day. I think where it gets tricky on the ABD schedule is that you start and end the day in different cities, so you have to deal with luggage. I'm not sure if you would be able to pick it up and immediately check it back in at the airport. If this was ok then it wouldn't be so bad. I think how much it's worth it depends on how much you want to do, your time available, and how often you go. I think for a once in a lifetime trip, it's definitely worth the money. You get to see the best of China in a pretty short amount of time. Not necessarily saying I would do it, but I see the value, especially compared to some of the other trips I looked at.


----------



## sayhello

jimmymc said:


> I actually looked around after and found the same info about the terra-cotta warriors. It is apparently a common thing just to fly in for the day. *I think where it gets tricky on the ABD schedule is that you start and end the day in different cities, so you have to deal with luggage. I'm not sure if you would be able to pick it up and immediately check it back in at the airport.* If this was ok then it wouldn't be so bad. I think how much it's worth it depends on how much you want to do, your time available, and how often you go. I think for a once in a lifetime trip, it's definitely worth the money. You get to see the best of China in a pretty short amount of time. Not necessarily saying I would do it, but I see the value, especially compared to some of the other trips I looked at.


This is one of the benefits of doing the trip with ABD.  We never saw our luggage from the 11pm night before pick-up in Chengdu to our arrival in Guilin that night.  And our carry-ons were securely left on the ABD motorcoach. I'll tell you, I've said it before, but walking off the plane and out of the terminal without having to stop at the luggage carousel is *really* something I could get used to!!

Sayhello


----------



## Rapunzellover

Tinkerbell schlepping your luggage is such a beautiful bonus to ABD.


----------



## jimmymc

So after a long hiatus, which includes getting a new job and a 2 week tour of Europe (not with ABD), I thought it would be fun to price out Disney's newest trip, Japan! I remember when they were announced, and I experienced some sticker shock despite not planning to go. But apparently that feeling wasn't mutual, because all but two trips between now and the end of 2019 have sold out. Not surprising considering how popular visiting Japan is. Anyway, enough with that, here's the breakdown. I listed both the initial price and current price, which is quite a large gap because this trip is almost full.

ABD Japan
June 30 - July 10, 2019
$9,499 - $10,699 pp x2 = $18,998-$21,398 for 2 people, 1 room

Hotels: 

All hotels assume 1 Queen/King or 2 doubles, whichever is cheaper, and double occupancy.

Hyatt Regency, Kyoto, King Bed Room for 4 nights = $1,115

Hotel Associa Takayama Resort, Twin Room incl. breakfast for 2 nights = $372

Hilton Odawara Resort, Twin room for 1 night = $262

The Peninsula Tokyo, King Bed Room for 3 nights = $1,698

Hotel Total = $3,447

Transportation:

Bus from Osaka Airport to Kyoto Train + Taxi to Hotel: $50

Unlimited Kyoto Subway and Bus Pass: $62

Bullet Train to Hiroshima: $395

Transportation in Hiroshima and to Miyajima Island: $17

Train Tickets to Nara and Takayama: $189

Takayama Taxis: $50

Train from Takayama to Hilton Odawara: $321

Taxi in Odawara: $100

Tickets to Kamakura and Tokyo: $32

Subway and Taxis in Tokyo: $200

Transfer to Tokyo Airport: $50

Transportation Total = $1,466

Meals (all prices are for 2):

Day 1
Lunch on your own
Dinner at the Hotel: $117

Day 2
Breakfast at hotel: $63
Lunch at Yoshiya Restaurant: $50
Dinner at The Sodoh: $110

Day 3
Breakfast at hotel: $63
Lunch on your own
Dinner at Okonomiyaki: $30

Day 4
Breakfast at hotel: $63
Bento Box Lunch
Dinner on your own

Day 5
Breakfast at hotel: $63
Lunch on your own
Dinner at hotel: $80

Day 6: 
Breakfast at hotel: $60
Lunch at Irori: $30
Dinner at Suzuya: $60

Day 7
Breakfast at hotel: $60
Lunch on your own
Dinner on your own

Day 8
Breakfast at hotel: $60
Lunch in Kamakura: $50
Dinner at Gonpachi: $90

Day 9
Breakfast at hotel: $55
Lunch at sushi class
Dinner on your own

Day 10
Breakfast at hotel: $55
Lunch on your own
Dinner at Happo-En: $162

Day 11
Breakfast at hotel: $55

Total for all meals = $1,376

Activities:

Day 1
On your own

Day 2
Kyoto rickshaw and walking tour: $157
Pure Water Temple tour: $8

Day 3
Shinto Shrine and Buddhist Temple Tour: $9
Hiroshima Peace Park: $4
Hiroshima WWII Museum: $4

Day 4
Temple Visit: $9
Taiko Drum Lessons: $108
Bento Box Class and Lunch: $140
Food Tour: $74
Hozen-ji Temple: Free

Day 5
Fushimi Inari Shrine: Free
Mochi Class: $102
Sumo Museum and Demonstration: $95

Day 6
Shirakawa-go tour: $120
Bike Ride: $20
Onsen: $20

Day 7
Takayama Food Tour: $90
Calligraphy Class: $27

Day 8
Hakone Open Air Museum: $29
Cup Noodles Muiseum: $9
Tokyo Walking Tour: Free, $10 Tip

Day 9
Hamarikyu Gardens and Tea Ceremony: $120
Sumida River Cruise: $14
Senso-ji Temple: Free
Asakusa Walking Tour: Free, $10 tip
Sushi Class and Lunch: $97

Day 10
Meiji Jingu Shrine and Kagura Ceremony: $90
Takeshita Street: Free

Day 11
Departure

Total for all activities = $1,366

Summary:
Hotels: $3,447
Transportation: $1,466
Meals: $1,376
Activities: $1,366

Grand Total: $7,655

Price Difference: $11,343 from minimum price

Things you get with ABD that you can't on your own:
2 Guides familiar with the area acting as your personal concierge
Luggage service at all hotels and the airport
Private transportation that does not involve driving yourself or public transit (minus the bullet train)
Several private meals at the restaurants mentioned above
Separate activities for children
Dinner at Happo-En is not normally open for individuals, only groups. You can visit the gardens on your own

So I believe this is the largest gap between doing it on your own and going yourself I've seen so far. I would guess some of that is because the trip is new, they don't have to worry as much about competitive pricing. Transportation is also very expensive in Japan. Most highways are toll roads, and a 4 hour drive could cost upwards of $80 for just a regular sedan. Disney did actually choose reasonably priced hotels for the first 3 cities, so the lodging bill for 10 nights is not as high as I thought it would be. This trip also includes a TON of guided activities and not too much time on your own. While most of the temples and museums only require a small admission charge, having your own tour group does greatly enhance the experience. 

Now with that being said, would I go on this trip? At this price, that is a definite no. In my last post, I talked about how China was one of the more worth it trips because of things like the internal flights and language barrier. While I don't find flying particularly challenging, it does take up a lot of time and energy. The Japan trip replaces all those flights with trains (or motorcoaches if you use ABD), and Japan has probably the smoothest running train system in the world. Even in the countryside, the train map and ticket machines are easy to navigate if you speak English. In addition to transportation, Japan in general is just easier and more familiar for most western travelers without experience in Asia. While shrines in Japan are beautiful, I'm not sure all the activities ABD does are what I would be most interested in. I would probably stay for 5 days in Osaka, a week in Tokyo, and maybe 3 days in Sendai or Yamagata. I think that staying mostly south of Tokyo, you end up missing many of the older, more historical small towns in Japan. That being said, this trip still gives you an amazing 10 day overview of the country, and if it's in your budget I'm sure it would be an amazing trip.

If you're interested in seeing Tokyo Disneyland, it is available as an add-on to this trip. That included transfer from the Peninsula hotel to the resort, your hotel stay, park tickets, extra fastpasses,  a dining plan, and transfers from the parks to the airport on your last day. If you just happen to be in Tokyo and not planning on staying on property, the parks can be easily accessed using the subway system.

Let me know your thoughts on this very expensive but popular trip!

(In an unrelated note, I think ABD's next new destination should be the Ukraine. Not a lot of people outside of Eastern Europe really know about it, but it's one of the most interesting places I've ever been.)


----------



## EllinK

jimmymc said:


> I thought it would be fun to price out Disney's newest trip, Japan!



This is super interesting! I am also interested in ABD Japan but since there are other things I would like to see and do in Tokyo, I began investigating alternatives. Thanks for this.



jimmymc said:


> I think ABD's next new destination should be the Ukraine.



Seems unlikely... but we would love to hear about your trip!


----------



## sabrecmc

We had a great Rhine River cruise with ABD, and I'd definitely do it again. Made it very easy. That being said, I was surprised that there really wasn't much that ABD did that we couldn't have arranged on our own.  You were really paying for convenience and a family-friendly trip, which is honestly fine by me, but the idea of there being some extra-special ABD-exclusiveness really didn't hold true.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

jimmymc said:


> So after a long hiatus, which includes getting a new job and a 2 week tour of Europe (not with ABD), I thought it would be fun to price out Disney's newest trip, Japan! I remember when they were announced, and I experienced some sticker shock despite not planning to go. But apparently that feeling wasn't mutual, because all but two trips between now and the end of 2019 have sold out. Not surprising considering how popular visiting Japan is. Anyway, enough with that, here's the breakdown. I listed both the initial price and current price, which is quite a large gap because this trip is almost full.
> 
> ABD Japan
> June 30 - July 10, 2019
> $9,499 - $10,699 pp x2 = $18,998-$21,398 for 2 people, 1 room
> 
> Hotels:
> 
> All hotels assume 1 Queen/King or 2 doubles, whichever is cheaper, and double occupancy.
> 
> Hyatt Regency, Kyoto, King Bed Room for 4 nights = $1,115
> 
> Hotel Associa Takayama Resort, Twin Room incl. breakfast for 2 nights = $372
> 
> Hilton Odawara Resort, Twin room for 1 night = $262
> 
> The Peninsula Tokyo, King Bed Room for 3 nights = $1,698
> 
> Hotel Total = $3,447
> 
> Transportation:
> 
> Bus from Osaka Airport to Kyoto Train + Taxi to Hotel: $50
> 
> Unlimited Kyoto Subway and Bus Pass: $62
> 
> Bullet Train to Hiroshima: $395
> 
> Transportation in Hiroshima and to Miyajima Island: $17
> 
> Train Tickets to Nara and Takayama: $189
> 
> Takayama Taxis: $50
> 
> Train from Takayama to Hilton Odawara: $321
> 
> Taxi in Odawara: $100
> 
> Tickets to Kamakura and Tokyo: $32
> 
> Subway and Taxis in Tokyo: $200
> 
> Transfer to Tokyo Airport: $50
> 
> Transportation Total = $1,466
> 
> Meals (all prices are for 2):
> 
> Day 1
> Lunch on your own
> Dinner at the Hotel: $117
> 
> Day 2
> Breakfast at hotel: $63
> Lunch at Yoshiya Restaurant: $50
> Dinner at The Sodoh: $110
> 
> Day 3
> Breakfast at hotel: $63
> Lunch on your own
> Dinner at Okonomiyaki: $30
> 
> Day 4
> Breakfast at hotel: $63
> Bento Box Lunch
> Dinner on your own
> 
> Day 5
> Breakfast at hotel: $63
> Lunch on your own
> Dinner at hotel: $80
> 
> Day 6:
> Breakfast at hotel: $60
> Lunch at Irori: $30
> Dinner at Suzuya: $60
> 
> Day 7
> Breakfast at hotel: $60
> Lunch on your own
> Dinner on your own
> 
> Day 8
> Breakfast at hotel: $60
> Lunch in Kamakura: $50
> Dinner at Gonpachi: $90
> 
> Day 9
> Breakfast at hotel: $55
> Lunch at sushi class
> Dinner on your own
> 
> Day 10
> Breakfast at hotel: $55
> Lunch on your own
> Dinner at Happo-En: $162
> 
> Day 11
> Breakfast at hotel: $55
> 
> Total for all meals = $1,376
> 
> Activities:
> 
> Day 1
> On your own
> 
> Day 2
> Kyoto rickshaw and walking tour: $157
> Pure Water Temple tour: $8
> 
> Day 3
> Shinto Shrine and Buddhist Temple Tour: $9
> Hiroshima Peace Park: $4
> Hiroshima WWII Museum: $4
> 
> Day 4
> Temple Visit: $9
> Taiko Drum Lessons: $108
> Bento Box Class and Lunch: $140
> Food Tour: $74
> Hozen-ji Temple: Free
> 
> Day 5
> Fushimi Inari Shrine: Free
> Mochi Class: $102
> Sumo Museum and Demonstration: $95
> 
> Day 6
> Shirakawa-go tour: $120
> Bike Ride: $20
> Onsen: $20
> 
> Day 7
> Takayama Food Tour: $90
> Calligraphy Class: $27
> 
> Day 8
> Hakone Open Air Museum: $29
> Cup Noodles Muiseum: $9
> Tokyo Walking Tour: Free, $10 Tip
> 
> Day 9
> Hamarikyu Gardens and Tea Ceremony: $120
> Sumida River Cruise: $14
> Senso-ji Temple: Free
> Asakusa Walking Tour: Free, $10 tip
> Sushi Class and Lunch: $97
> 
> Day 10
> Meiji Jingu Shrine and Kagura Ceremony: $90
> Takeshita Street: Free
> 
> Day 11
> Departure
> 
> Total for all activities = $1,366
> 
> Summary:
> Hotels: $3,447
> Transportation: $1,466
> Meals: $1,376
> Activities: $1,366
> 
> Grand Total: $7,655
> 
> Price Difference: $11,343 from minimum price
> 
> Things you get with ABD that you can't on your own:
> 2 Guides familiar with the area acting as your personal concierge
> Luggage service at all hotels and the airport
> Private transportation that does not involve driving yourself or public transit (minus the bullet train)
> Several private meals at the restaurants mentioned above
> Separate activities for children
> Dinner at Happo-En is not normally open for individuals, only groups. You can visit the gardens on your own
> 
> So I believe this is the largest gap between doing it on your own and going yourself I've seen so far. I would guess some of that is because the trip is new, they don't have to worry as much about competitive pricing. Transportation is also very expensive in Japan. Most highways are toll roads, and a 4 hour drive could cost upwards of $80 for just a regular sedan. Disney did actually choose reasonably priced hotels for the first 3 cities, so the lodging bill for 10 nights is not as high as I thought it would be. This trip also includes a TON of guided activities and not too much time on your own. While most of the temples and museums only require a small admission charge, having your own tour group does greatly enhance the experience.
> 
> Now with that being said, would I go on this trip? At this price, that is a definite no. In my last post, I talked about how China was one of the more worth it trips because of things like the internal flights and language barrier. While I don't find flying particularly challenging, it does take up a lot of time and energy. The Japan trip replaces all those flights with trains (or motorcoaches if you use ABD), and Japan has probably the smoothest running train system in the world. Even in the countryside, the train map and ticket machines are easy to navigate if you speak English. In addition to transportation, Japan in general is just easier and more familiar for most western travelers without experience in Asia. While shrines in Japan are beautiful, I'm not sure all the activities ABD does are what I would be most interested in. I would probably stay for 5 days in Osaka, a week in Tokyo, and maybe 3 days in Sendai or Yamagata. I think that staying mostly south of Tokyo, you end up missing many of the older, more historical small towns in Japan. That being said, this trip still gives you an amazing 10 day overview of the country, and if it's in your budget I'm sure it would be an amazing trip.
> 
> If you're interested in seeing Tokyo Disneyland, it is available as an add-on to this trip. That included transfer from the Peninsula hotel to the resort, your hotel stay, park tickets, extra fastpasses,  a dining plan, and transfers from the parks to the airport on your last day. If you just happen to be in Tokyo and not planning on staying on property, the parks can be easily accessed using the subway system.
> 
> Let me know your thoughts on this very expensive but popular trip!
> 
> (In an unrelated note, I think ABD's next new destination should be the Ukraine. Not a lot of people outside of Eastern Europe really know about it, but it's one of the most interesting places I've ever been.)


Wow! Amazing job—thank you for doing this. I think, lol, since I’m signed up. Does make me a little hesitant though. I had such an amazing time in China last year, I’m trusting this wil blow me away, too. But that’s a really big gap. Really big.


----------



## jimmymc

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> Wow! Amazing job—thank you for doing this. I think, lol, since I’m signed up. Does make me a little hesitant though. I had such an amazing time in China last year, I’m trusting this wil blow me away, too. But that’s a really big gap. Really big.



They say that once you do one ABD trip, it's hard to go back to other types of travel. I'm sure you'll have an amazing trip. Just because the cost breakdown is lower doesn't mean it's physically possible. Dragging large pieces of luggage on trains is a pain, and the train transfers between cities usually take longer than what it would take a bus. Yes you're paying a premium, but you'll have a much more comfortable and relaxing trip than trying to do this on your own. For an 11 day trip, this is pretty much the most you can possibly do.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

jimmymc said:


> They say that once you do one ABD trip, it's hard to go back to other types of travel. I'm sure you'll have an amazing trip. Just because the cost breakdown is lower doesn't mean it's physically possible. Dragging large pieces of luggage on trains is a pain, and the train transfers between cities usually take longer than what it would take a bus. Yes you're paying a premium, but you'll have a much more comfortable and relaxing trip than trying to do this on your own. For an 11 day trip, this is pretty much the most you can possibly do.


Yes, this will be our seventh ABD--hard to believe. We've had an amazing time on most of them, but I do try to be cognizant of the "value." I think some are much better than others. This clearly falls in the "others" category  I think once we have some trip reports back from early travelers it will give a better sense of the "intangibles" that are sometimes had to quantify. The problem with this though is that sometimes there aren't those intangibles (like on the ABD Baltic Add on we did), which left me feeling as if I'd gotten ripped off. That was the only ABD trip I've ever felt like that about. China, Backstage Magic (old itinerary) and Scotland (original itinerary), I actually felt were a great value for the money. But Japan is definitely a trip I want some hand-holding on and I really do love the itinerary.


----------



## aggiedog

jimmymc said:


> Dragging large pieces of luggage on trains is a pain,



My understanding is that Japan has a robust luggage courier system that can be arranged thru the hotel, and that from town to town that's often how people transfer their luggage.  Just speaking from my research when I was looking at putting together a Japan family vacation.


----------



## jimmymc

aggiedog said:


> My understanding is that Japan has a robust luggage courier system that can be arranged thru the hotel, and that from town to town that's often how people transfer their luggage.  Just speaking from my research when I was looking at putting together a Japan family vacation.



I haven't tried a system like that. I know from many European trains that people tend to just bring luggage. You can arrange for door to door delivery through some of the train companies, but I've never had that much I needed to ship.


----------



## jimmymc

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> Yes, this will be our seventh ABD--hard to believe. We've had an amazing time on most of them, but I do try to be cognizant of the "value." I think some are much better than others. This clearly falls in the "others" category  I think once we have some trip reports back from early travelers it will give a better sense of the "intangibles" that are sometimes had to quantify. The problem with this though is that sometimes there aren't those intangibles (like on the ABD Baltic Add on we did), which left me feeling as if I'd gotten ripped off. That was the only ABD trip I've ever felt like that about. China, Backstage Magic (old itinerary) and Scotland (original itinerary), I actually felt were a great value for the money. But Japan is definitely a trip I want some hand-holding on and I really do love the itinerary.



I don't know if I would say it's a worse value. Looking at my previous breakdowns, most trips cost about double the price to do it on your own. I also agree that some of the add-ons are questionable. If you're not switching hotels/cities then a good chunk of the value diminishes. From what I've seen, I think that China, Vietnam, or South Africa look like the most worth it compared to trying to do it on your own. I personally think Backstage Magic is the best way to do a Disneyland trip, combining it with a few post-nights at your DL hotel and maybe some pre-nights in LA.


----------



## wanderlust7

aggiedog said:


> My understanding is that Japan has a robust luggage courier system that can be arranged thru the hotel, and that from town to town that's often how people transfer their luggage.  Just speaking from my research when I was looking at putting together a Japan family vacation.



The Japanese delivery services (takuhaibin) are awesome - inexpensive and super reliable.  We've used it on both of our trips to Japan.  I wish Europe had something similar.


----------



## Donalyn

I have a hard time seeing the value for U.S. based ABD trips, with the exception of anything specific to Disneyland.  Just seems that you could fairly easily recreate a similar experience.  

But for international travel, I think that there is a real value of having somebody else worry about all of the logistics and language barriers and stuff like that.  I'm really looking forward to not having to deal with getting through the train station and to the airport.  Not that I can't do those thing - I totally can and have in travel in the past.  It is just that they can be stressful, which is just the opposite of what I go on vacation for.  (And from experience, I know that stress + foreign country = marital strife.  One of the worst fights in my 21+ year marriage was while we were trying to get to CDG from our hotel in Paris.  Thank goodness for the nice ticket counter agent who gave us exit row seats.  We really needed the pixie dust at that point, if you know what I mean.)

I am surprised that the Japan difference is as much as it is (and I'm sure ABD gets some kind of discount on hotel rooms).


----------



## Jess_S

While I love jimmymc's cost comparisons, one thing to keep in mind is that he is not including the cost of guides in any of his calculations. I did my own calculation on the Scotland trip including the cost of 1 guide per day of actual touring (i.e. not arrival or departure day), and the cost differential versus on my own was only about 30%. I acknowledge that is still a big premium, but it is much less than 50%. 

To decide if ABD is worth the money, I think you need to decide if you will enjoy having guides versus being on your own. And you also need to decide how much you value having someone take the stress out of your trip. Having someone else in charge of logistics is undoubtedly less stressful than DIY. However, some people either don't mind that stress that much or are not willing to give up flexibility and control in order to avoid stress. For those people I think there is less of a value proposition. 

In summary, after actually doing an ABD, it is clear to me that you are getting something for your premium -- but the question is whether you are someone who values the something you are getting.


----------



## aggiedog

From my research, a private guide seems to add $1000/day to a trip.  That's substantial for a family. That's practically nothing divided between 15-20 people (assuming 2 guides on a max filled ABD.)  Now, there's the fact that the guide can do all the things you don't want to worry about that may be worth more (and makes "worth it" impossible to calculate) to you, but for bottom line cost, it shouldn't factor that much into it.


----------



## Jess_S

If you are on your own and want a guide, your choices are either a private guide or booking a separate group tour for each location. I think that the second option is more comparable to ABD -- although obviously not precise, so that is the number I used. It came to about $200 per day for my party of 3.


----------



## sayhello

aggiedog said:


> From my research, a private guide seems to add $1000/day to a trip.  That's substantial for a family. That's practically nothing divided between 15-20 people (assuming 2 guides on a max filled ABD.)  Now, there's the fact that the guide can do all the things you don't want to worry about that may be worth more (and makes "worth it" impossible to calculate) to you, but for bottom line cost, it shouldn't factor that much into it.


It does figure in if you're looking to compare apples to apples.  And having some sort of a guide is definitely required to make the trips equivalent

Sayhello


----------



## aggiedog

For sure a full time guide(s) is part of what makes ABD what it is, but even assuming you have one that twice as expensive as the standard guide, the cost divided by number of participants does not come out to an extra $5,000+ per person.  I'm just saying that paying for a full time guide is not what justifies the price increase.  The intangibles of what they can do for a person who doesn't want to worry about the details day to day, or for ABD to plan the entire thing so you can just pack your suitcase and go, that is what the extra money is paying for, by and large.  And there's really no way to quantify that.  But it's nice to see ABD vs DIY cost comparisons to see what I'd have to pay to get those intangibles.

And darn, when I add it up for a family of 6, I still can't justify the cost.  Bums me out, because I think I'd like to try it.  I'm working on seeing if dh would do an adult only Oktoberfest river cruise, but that would have to be in 3 years.  Too much college to pay for before then to justify a pricey no kids trip.  We enjoy traveling as a family, and I'll be lucky if I can get another big family trip in when dd3 graduates HS in 2 years.  We'll have 3 in college that next fall, and boy howdy that's a lot of money flowing out of my excel budget spreadsheet!


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

aggiedog said:


> From my research, a private guide seems to add $1000/day to a trip.  That's substantial for a family. That's practically nothing divided between 15-20 people (assuming 2 guides on a max filled ABD.)  Now, there's the fact that the guide can do all the things you don't want to worry about that may be worth more (and makes "worth it" impossible to calculate) to you, but for bottom line cost, it shouldn't factor that much into it.





Jess_S said:


> If you are on your own and want a guide, your choices are either a private guide or booking a separate group tour for each location. I think that the second option is more comparable to ABD -- although obviously not precise, so that is the number I used. It came to about $200 per day for my party of 3.





sayhello said:


> It does figure in if you're looking to compare apples to apples.  And having some sort of a guide is definitely required to make the trips equivalent
> 
> Sayhello



Don't forget to add in the guide gratuities to the calculation! I wonder what ABD pays them versus what they get from tips. I suspect most of their pay is gratuities. 

Just as a comparison, I've used private blue badge driver guides for a few different trips to Scotland over the last ten years--the most recent was about 4 years ago. The cost included their car and gas and their accommodations and it was about £320 pounds a day for a 10 day tour in 2010. In 2012 it was £400 for a one-day trip only. I can't find my bill from 2016 but it was a few days so less than the £400 a day. This was for two people so I would personally calculate the ABD guides at much less/day. I like the $200/day figure, but I'd subtract the gratuities off that. It's so hard to value all this, but I'm just going off what I've paid previously.


----------



## distravel

Does anyone know why cost the ABD South Africa itineraries have increased so dramatically? Adult price at the end of December 2018 is $8799 then increases slightly until December 2019 through March 2019 when it is increases to $12,499 (original published rate, not dynamic price change)? I don't think the itinerary has changed much. This trip was never really on my radar until Cousin Orville's trip report. That is over a 40% increase in one year which effectively prices us out of that trip.


----------



## Donalyn

On the tip thing (and don't flame me, we are planning on tipping at least the recommended amount on our trip).  However, when I run the math on a trip, I do really wonder what they are being paid by ABD.  

For example, assume a trip of 32, basically 8 families of 4.  For a weeklong trip, that is $350ish a guide, for each family of 4.  Times 8 = $2,800 a week in tips.  Now, I realize that they don't work each week of the year, and not everyone will tip the recommended amount, and not each trip will be 32 people.  But annualized, that is $145,000 in tips a year. But even if they only work a third of the year, still about $50,000 in tips, plus what they are actually being paid (and food on trips, and benefits, I'm assuming).


----------



## Woodview

If they were paid a proper wage          then there would be know   need for  tipping   ?


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## carpenta

South Africa is experiencing some political upheaval and does not look like things will calm down in the future. Currency conversion speculation I would suspect.


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## distravel

carpenta said:


> South Africa is experiencing some political upheaval and does not look like things will calm down in the future. Currency conversion speculation I would suspect.



Thanks for this explanation.


----------



## Jess_S

distravel said:


> Does anyone know why cost the ABD South Africa itineraries have increased so dramatically? Adult price at the end of December 2018 is $8799 then increases slightly until December 2019 through March 2019 when it is increases to $12,499 (original published rate, not dynamic price change)? I don't think the itinerary has changed much. This trip was never really on my radar until Cousin Orville's trip report. That is over a 40% increase in one year which effectively prices us out of that trip.



Thanks for asking this. I had the same question. We actually did a Europe ABD this year to see if we liked the product enough to book Africa and Africa is now out of our price range. It is very frustrating.


----------



## gypsy_at_heart

jimmymc said:


> So after a long hiatus, which includes getting a new job and a 2 week tour of Europe (not with ABD), I thought it would be fun to price out Disney's newest trip, Japan! I remember when they were announced, and I experienced some sticker shock despite not planning to go. But apparently that feeling wasn't mutual, because all but two trips between now and the end of 2019 have sold out. Not surprising considering how popular visiting Japan is. Anyway, enough with that, here's the breakdown. I listed both the initial price and current price, which is quite a large gap because this trip is almost full.
> 
> ABD Japan
> June 30 - July 10, 2019
> $9,499 - $10,699 pp x2 = $18,998-$21,398 for 2 people, 1 room
> 
> Hotels:
> 
> All hotels assume 1 Queen/King or 2 doubles, whichever is cheaper, and double occupancy.
> 
> Hyatt Regency, Kyoto, King Bed Room for 4 nights = $1,115
> 
> Hotel Associa Takayama Resort, Twin Room incl. breakfast for 2 nights = $372
> 
> Hilton Odawara Resort, Twin room for 1 night = $262
> 
> The Peninsula Tokyo, King Bed Room for 3 nights = $1,698
> 
> Hotel Total = $3,447
> 
> Transportation:
> 
> Bus from Osaka Airport to Kyoto Train + Taxi to Hotel: $50
> 
> Unlimited Kyoto Subway and Bus Pass: $62
> 
> Bullet Train to Hiroshima: $395
> 
> Transportation in Hiroshima and to Miyajima Island: $17
> 
> Train Tickets to Nara and Takayama: $189
> 
> Takayama Taxis: $50
> 
> Train from Takayama to Hilton Odawara: $321
> 
> Taxi in Odawara: $100
> 
> Tickets to Kamakura and Tokyo: $32
> 
> Subway and Taxis in Tokyo: $200
> 
> Transfer to Tokyo Airport: $50
> 
> Transportation Total = $1,466
> 
> Meals (all prices are for 2):
> 
> Day 1
> Lunch on your own
> Dinner at the Hotel: $117
> 
> Day 2
> Breakfast at hotel: $63
> Lunch at Yoshiya Restaurant: $50
> Dinner at The Sodoh: $110
> 
> Day 3
> Breakfast at hotel: $63
> Lunch on your own
> Dinner at Okonomiyaki: $30
> 
> Day 4
> Breakfast at hotel: $63
> Bento Box Lunch
> Dinner on your own
> 
> Day 5
> Breakfast at hotel: $63
> Lunch on your own
> Dinner at hotel: $80
> 
> Day 6:
> Breakfast at hotel: $60
> Lunch at Irori: $30
> Dinner at Suzuya: $60
> 
> Day 7
> Breakfast at hotel: $60
> Lunch on your own
> Dinner on your own
> 
> Day 8
> Breakfast at hotel: $60
> Lunch in Kamakura: $50
> Dinner at Gonpachi: $90
> 
> Day 9
> Breakfast at hotel: $55
> Lunch at sushi class
> Dinner on your own
> 
> Day 10
> Breakfast at hotel: $55
> Lunch on your own
> Dinner at Happo-En: $162
> 
> Day 11
> Breakfast at hotel: $55
> 
> Total for all meals = $1,376
> 
> Activities:
> 
> Day 1
> On your own
> 
> Day 2
> Kyoto rickshaw and walking tour: $157
> Pure Water Temple tour: $8
> 
> Day 3
> Shinto Shrine and Buddhist Temple Tour: $9
> Hiroshima Peace Park: $4
> Hiroshima WWII Museum: $4
> 
> Day 4
> Temple Visit: $9
> Taiko Drum Lessons: $108
> Bento Box Class and Lunch: $140
> Food Tour: $74
> Hozen-ji Temple: Free
> 
> Day 5
> Fushimi Inari Shrine: Free
> Mochi Class: $102
> Sumo Museum and Demonstration: $95
> 
> Day 6
> Shirakawa-go tour: $120
> Bike Ride: $20
> Onsen: $20
> 
> Day 7
> Takayama Food Tour: $90
> Calligraphy Class: $27
> 
> Day 8
> Hakone Open Air Museum: $29
> Cup Noodles Muiseum: $9
> Tokyo Walking Tour: Free, $10 Tip
> 
> Day 9
> Hamarikyu Gardens and Tea Ceremony: $120
> Sumida River Cruise: $14
> Senso-ji Temple: Free
> Asakusa Walking Tour: Free, $10 tip
> Sushi Class and Lunch: $97
> 
> Day 10
> Meiji Jingu Shrine and Kagura Ceremony: $90
> Takeshita Street: Free
> 
> Day 11
> Departure
> 
> Total for all activities = $1,366
> 
> Summary:
> Hotels: $3,447
> Transportation: $1,466
> Meals: $1,376
> Activities: $1,366
> 
> Grand Total: $7,655
> 
> Price Difference: $11,343 from minimum price
> 
> Things you get with ABD that you can't on your own:
> 2 Guides familiar with the area acting as your personal concierge
> Luggage service at all hotels and the airport
> Private transportation that does not involve driving yourself or public transit (minus the bullet train)
> Several private meals at the restaurants mentioned above
> Separate activities for children
> Dinner at Happo-En is not normally open for individuals, only groups. You can visit the gardens on your own
> 
> So I believe this is the largest gap between doing it on your own and going yourself I've seen so far. I would guess some of that is because the trip is new, they don't have to worry as much about competitive pricing. Transportation is also very expensive in Japan. Most highways are toll roads, and a 4 hour drive could cost upwards of $80 for just a regular sedan. Disney did actually choose reasonably priced hotels for the first 3 cities, so the lodging bill for 10 nights is not as high as I thought it would be. This trip also includes a TON of guided activities and not too much time on your own. While most of the temples and museums only require a small admission charge, having your own tour group does greatly enhance the experience.
> 
> Now with that being said, would I go on this trip? At this price, that is a definite no. In my last post, I talked about how China was one of the more worth it trips because of things like the internal flights and language barrier. While I don't find flying particularly challenging, it does take up a lot of time and energy. The Japan trip replaces all those flights with trains (or motorcoaches if you use ABD), and Japan has probably the smoothest running train system in the world. Even in the countryside, the train map and ticket machines are easy to navigate if you speak English. In addition to transportation, Japan in general is just easier and more familiar for most western travelers without experience in Asia. While shrines in Japan are beautiful, I'm not sure all the activities ABD does are what I would be most interested in. I would probably stay for 5 days in Osaka, a week in Tokyo, and maybe 3 days in Sendai or Yamagata. I think that staying mostly south of Tokyo, you end up missing many of the older, more historical small towns in Japan. That being said, this trip still gives you an amazing 10 day overview of the country, and if it's in your budget I'm sure it would be an amazing trip.
> 
> If you're interested in seeing Tokyo Disneyland, it is available as an add-on to this trip. That included transfer from the Peninsula hotel to the resort, your hotel stay, park tickets, extra fastpasses,  a dining plan, and transfers from the parks to the airport on your last day. If you just happen to be in Tokyo and not planning on staying on property, the parks can be easily accessed using the subway system.
> 
> Let me know your thoughts on this very expensive but popular trip!
> 
> (In an unrelated note, I think ABD's next new destination should be the Ukraine. Not a lot of people outside of Eastern Europe really know about it, but it's one of the most interesting places I've ever been.)



This is one of the big reasons why I could not justify this trip. I looked at it because I was planning a trip to Japan next year, but I've ended up booking a national geographic comfort level trip with an adventure tour company instead. I got a bit of a discount for being a very repeat customer (and a promo code with no expiration date...)and was able to book it for $5600 CAD. 12 days, awesome activities and a full time guide. They also book no more than 15 in a group, which is nice. 

I keep looking at ABD, but the more I look at them, the more I start to think they just aren't for me - for more reasons than just my thinking they are a tad bit over priced. I LOVE Disney and I love travelling, but I think my style of world travel wants a little bit more in the unique local experiences than ABD offers. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure they are amazing and the exact right fit for some people, just as the trips I choose wouldn't be picked by every traveller. I'm just starting to think they might not be worth it for me in particular.  

Plus, since it's half the cost, I'm going to do Morocco too next year and still save a few $$ for my 2020 plans.... Antarctica!


----------



## jimmymc

Jess_S said:


> While I love jimmymc's cost comparisons, one thing to keep in mind is that he is not including the cost of guides in any of his calculations. I did my own calculation on the Scotland trip including the cost of 1 guide per day of actual touring (i.e. not arrival or departure day), and the cost differential versus on my own was only about 30%. I acknowledge that is still a big premium, but it is much less than 50%.
> 
> To decide if ABD is worth the money, I think you need to decide if you will enjoy having guides versus being on your own. And you also need to decide how much you value having someone take the stress out of your trip. Having someone else in charge of logistics is undoubtedly less stressful than DIY. However, some people either don't mind that stress that much or are not willing to give up flexibility and control in order to avoid stress. For those people I think there is less of a value proposition.
> 
> In summary, after actually doing an ABD, it is clear to me that you are getting something for your premium -- but the question is whether you are someone who values the something you are getting.



That is very true. I haven't considered doing the price of a private guide for an entire trip, or comparing it to other guided tours. Mine are specifically for doing this as 2 people by themselves, which is usually the way I travel. I also do mainly solo trips, but ABD adds so much in price to the solo trips that the gap would be even larger.

I try to frame it as if the intangibles listed after the review are worth the price difference. While I personally don't need a guide, for some people this greatly enhances their vacation. For me personally, the largest value added is the luggage service and transportation. I just got back from a trip that involved dragging a large suitcase through the Paris metro system, and that was definitely not a highlight of my trip. I also used public transit as my main mode of transport for most of the trip, so all the additional walking took a toll on my feet.

As a young solo traveler I rarely think the value added by ABD is worth it, but if I were older and made a bit more money, then I would seriously consider one. Right now I'm really only considering the Backstage magic, because of all the exclusive places you get to see and the ability to extend the Disneyland portion.


----------



## jimmymc

gypsy_at_heart said:


> This is one of the big reasons why I could not justify this trip. I looked at it because I was planning a trip to Japan next year, but I've ended up booking a national geographic comfort level trip with an adventure tour company instead. I got a bit of a discount for being a very repeat customer (and a promo code with no expiration date...)and was able to book it for $5600 CAD. 12 days, awesome activities and a full time guide. They also book no more than 15 in a group, which is nice.
> 
> I keep looking at ABD, but the more I look at them, the more I start to think they just aren't for me - for more reasons than just my thinking they are a tad bit over priced. I LOVE Disney and I love travelling, but I think my style of world travel wants a little bit more in the unique local experiences than ABD offers. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure they are amazing and the exact right fit for some people, just as the trips I choose wouldn't be picked by every traveller. I'm just starting to think they might not be worth it for me in particular.
> 
> Plus, since it's half the cost, I'm going to do Morocco too next year and still save a few $$ for my 2020 plans.... Antarctica!



That's a pretty good deal for 12 days in Japan. Do you know how many meals and other things are included?

ABD is truly a luxury vacation. You always stay at very expensive hotels, never wait in line, take private luxury motorcoaches everywhere, and dine at some expensive restaurants. They food prices weren't too bad in the Japan trip, but I've seen meals that cost $150 per person. If I were going to be staying in those places anyway and eating expensive meals, then I would consider ABD, but at this point I usually go for lower budget accommodations.


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## RebelHawk

I love the price break down of the Japan tour. I've done this sort of analysis myself for past trips. Regarding the price of the guides and how it effects overall pricing, we are doing a DIY France/Disneyland Paris trip this August. We have a total of 3 days of full time tour guides (2 days from a local company and 1 day with a Disney VIP CM) for a total of $3700. Add up the cost of two full time guides for the length of the trip and you can close the gap of ABD and DIY pretty quick.


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## gypsy_at_heart

jimmymc said:


> That's a pretty good deal for 12 days in Japan. Do you know how many meals and other things are included?
> 
> ABD is truly a luxury vacation. You always stay at very expensive hotels, never wait in line, take private luxury motorcoaches everywhere, and dine at some expensive restaurants. They food prices weren't too bad in the Japan trip, but I've seen meals that cost $150 per person. If I were going to be staying in those places anyway and eating expensive meals, then I would consider ABD, but at this point I usually go for lower budget accommodations.



This is what they say on my tour page:

*MEALS*
11 breakfasts, 1 lunch, 1 dinner 
Allow USD475-620 for meals not included

*DAY 1TOKYO*
Arrive at any time.

*DAY 2TOKYO*
Spend the day exploring vibrant Tokyo by public transit. As a city of extreme contrasts, we experience the ancient and traditional with visits to Meiji Jingu Shrine and the old town of Asakusa. We then see Tokyo's quirky and modern side with a walk through the pop culture-obsessed Harajuku district — a great place to sit back and people-watch.

*Meals included:*
 Breakfast
*DAY 3TOKYO*
This morning, insiders of Tsukiji Fish Market take us on a tour to learn about the fishing industry in Japan, ending with a class led by sushi masters. Learn how to identify the freshest fish, to prepare and fillet, and the fine art of sushi-making and presentation. After, try your hand at making your own sushi and enjoy a taste of your creation. This afternoon is free to explore Tokyo on your own.

*Exclusive Inclusions:*
National Geographic Journeys Exclusives Tsukiji Sushi Experience
*Meals included:*
 Breakfast | Lunch
*DAY 4TOKYO/TSUMAGO*
Depart Tokyo by train. Disembark at Nagiso and continue to our local ryokan accommodation. Enjoy a walk through the countryside, passing farms and hamlets into Tsumago, a traditional village. After, feast on a kaiseki meal, learn about Japanese customs, and sleep on a futon.

*Meals included:*
 Breakfast | Dinner
*DAY 5TSUMAGO/KANAZAWA-SHI*
Continue by train to the historic city of Kanazawa. Explore the ancient Samurai culture with a walk through the well-preserved Nagamachi Samurai district and visit to the Nomura Samurai family residence.

*Meals included:*
 Breakfast
*DAY 6KANAZAWA-SHI*
Continue exploring Kanazawa, visiting the Myoryuji Ninja Temple and walking through the Higashi Geisha district. The city is also renowned as a centre of traditional arts and crafts. We delve into these traditions with a chopstick and gold leaf painting experience. Opt to visit the stunning gardens or original castles.

*Exclusive Inclusions:*
Hands-On Chopstick and Gold Leaf Painting Experience
*Meals included:*
 Breakfast
*DAY 7KANAZAWA-SHI/HIROSHIMA*
Continue by bullet train train to Hiroshima and visit the park and Memorial Museum to learn more about the tragic history of this city. 

*Meals included:*
 Breakfast
*DAY 8HIROSHIMA*
Catch a ferry over to the sacred island of Miyajima to see the famous floating Torii Gate, considered one of Japan's most beautiful and sacred shrines. This afternoon is at your leisure. Opt to catch the ferry to other islands and explore on your own.

*Meals included:*
 Breakfast
*DAY 9HIROSHIMA/KYOTO*
This morning we visit Himeji Castle, considered the best preserved and most stunning castle in all of Japan. After, continue by train to Kyoto, the former Imperial Capital and home of the country's most treasured remnants of Japanese imperial life. This afternoon, take a stroll around the Gion Geisha district.

*Meals included:*
 Breakfast
*DAY 10KYOTO*
Visit the stunning Fushimi Inari, an ancient shrine at the base of the mountain of the same name. After, spend the day exploring sites around Nara, visiting the impressive Todaiji Buddhist Temple and Kasuga Taisha Shrine.

*Meals included:*
 Breakfast
*DAY 11KYOTO*
This morning, visit a local temple to learn about the history and practice of Zen Buddhism in Japan. Here we meet with a local monk who will talk about Buddhism and instruct us in Zen meditation and calligraphy. Enjoy a traditional bowl of matcha tea before visiting the famous Kinkaku-ji Golden Pavilion. After, we learn about the etiquette of the samurai as well as the practice of basic kembu, and take a lesson on how to use the Japanese sword. Then, enjoy a performance by kembu masters which includes short poems, which were traditionally written by samurai about major events in their life. Later, take some time to explore on your own. Opt to visit museums, temples, or zen gardens.

*Exclusive Inclusions:*
National Geographic Journeys Exclusives Zen Buddhist Meditation and Calligraphy|National Geographic Journeys Exclusives Kembu Masters
*Meals included:*
 Breakfast
*DAY 12KYOTO*
Depart at any time.

*Meals included:*
 Breakfast


Also should mention that tour price was in CAD 

The hotels on the comfort level are nice, probably not as fancy as ABD, but quite nice. If you book a more classic style adventure tour, the accommodation is more basic, but you can also get it even cheaper. I prefer the comfort tours in general, but I’ve done all styles

Like I said, I’m sure ABD is lovely, just not my style I’m starting to think


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## Bobo912

jimmymc said:


> That's a pretty good deal for 12 days in Japan. Do you know how many meals and other things are included?
> 
> ABD is truly a luxury vacation. You always stay at very expensive hotels, never wait in line, take private luxury motorcoaches everywhere, and dine at some expensive restaurants. They food prices weren't too bad in the Japan trip, but I've seen meals that cost $150 per person. If I were going to be staying in those places anyway and eating expensive meals, then I would consider ABD, but at this point I usually go for lower budget accommodations.



No offense, but I have to disagree with this statement a bit.  The hotels are not always expensive luxury hotels, some are very average.  Although there are definitely exceptions, I haven't found the food to be all that great and there are a lot of buffets, which I don't consider luxurious at all.  The motor coaches, in general, are okay, but in Lima, we were picked up by a coach that was littered with the previous riders garbage.  So I wouldn't use the word "always".


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## WanderlustNZ

This Xmas my family are spending 12 nights in Costa Rica on a Gate 1 Tour.  

I know some will be wondering why I would even consider comparing Gate 1 with ABD, but when doing my research and comparing the multitude of tour options out there, I found it interesting that (depending on dates and itineraries) the two companies sometimes use the same and/or similar hotels.  

My tour is costing my family of 3 a total of US$330 p/n.  The ABD tour, meanwhile costs over US$1600 p/n.  That difference to me is massive!

Gate 1 has a lot of downtime compared to Disney and offers less lunches and dinners, but this to me was one of the selling points of Gate 1.  I want the freedom to select some of our own restaurants and book some of our own tours, instead of doing rafting and a few activities that don’t really align with our interests and reasons for visiting that part of the world.  We are instead booked on many private and small group wildlife day tours with some of the best rated naturalists on Trip Advisor.
Add the cost of these tours and meals to our $330p/n and we’re still not even getting to $600.  This is $1000+ less per night for similar hotels and doing the exact activities we are interested in.

Yes, our buses might be a bit more crowded, the clientele a bit older and my son may have few, if any, other kids to play with.  But we have kept the cost down to a level that we are also affording a week in Orlando before the tour and a 2 week cruise afterwards.  


I would genuinely love to try ABD one day, but currently I just can’t see the value in it.


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## 2-pointdoe

I would love to hear about this trip through them and how it all goes. We did our first ABD in June and it was even better than expected but I would love to do more trips at a lower cost as my daughter gets older.



WanderlustNZ said:


> This Xmas my family are spending 12 nights in Costa Rica on a Gate 1 Tour.
> 
> I know some will be wondering why I would even consider comparing Gate 1 with ABD, but when doing my research and comparing the multitude of tour options out there, I found it interesting that (depending on dates and itineraries) the two companies sometimes use the same and/or similar hotels.
> 
> My tour is costing my family of 3 a total of US$330 p/n.  The ABD tour, meanwhile costs over US$1600 p/n.  That difference to me is massive!
> 
> Gate 1 has a lot of downtime compared to Disney and offers less lunches and dinners, but this to me was one of the selling points of Gate 1.  I want the freedom to select some of our own restaurants and book some of our own tours, instead of doing rafting and a few activities that don’t really align with our interests and reasons for visiting that part of the world.  We are instead booked on many private and small group wildlife day tours with some of the best rated naturalists on Trip Advisor.
> Add the cost of these tours and meals to our $330p/n and we’re still not even getting to $600.  This is $1000+ less per night for similar hotels and doing the exact activities we are interested in.
> 
> Yes, our buses might be a bit more crowded, the clientele a bit older and my son may have few, if any, other kids to play with.  But we have kept the cost down to a level that we are also affording a week in Orlando before the tour and a 2 week cruise afterwards.
> 
> 
> I would genuinely love to try ABD one day, but currently I just can’t see the value in it.


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## WanderlustNZ

2-pointdoe said:


> I would love to hear about this trip through them and how it all goes. We did our first ABD in June and it was even better than expected but I would love to do more trips at a lower cost as my daughter gets older.



Sure thing.  
We have done a Gate 1 tour before, but it was many years ago prior to having our son.  It was a hectic 2 week tour of China.

I booked the tour because it was so cheap and went to all but one of the places in China that were on my bucket list. But, also because it was so cheap, I went in trying to keep my expectations in check.  I ended up being really pleasantly surprised. 

The food was delicious and showcased the different regions of China really well.  The hotels were all pretty similar to China’s version of a 3.5-4 star Marriott; perfectly comfortable, if not somewhat forgettable. And the Yangtze River cruise they put us on would have been one of the nicest 5 star boats on the river at the time. 

Any issues we had on that trip stemmed more from Chinese politics and the expectations the government have of their guides, rather than Gate 1. 

I’m yet to try ABD, but I have cruised with Disney before and stayed at deluxe WDW resorts, so am aware of the high quality products and services Disney offer.  However, I also think that paying top dollar makes your expectations higher and you are less forgiving of the things that aren’t so great. 
For example, with the exception of Palo, we found the food of the Disney Fantasy to range from bland to good. Never terrible, but never exceptional either.  Meanwhile, we found the food on the two cheapest and lowest rated cruise lines we have cruised with (Costa and P&O Australia) to be really good.  It may have been because we were expecting something average and it was certainly more than this. 

I would love to cruise Disney again; the ships are stunning and the entertainment exceptional.  However, while their prices are so high, I’m also happy to try the competition. 

Then there’s the whole area of itinerary options, of which Disney’s (both cruise and ABD) are limited.  But that’s another story.


----------



## jimmymc

Bobo912 said:


> No offense, but I have to disagree with this statement a bit.  The hotels are not always expensive luxury hotels, some are very average.  Although there are definitely exceptions, I haven't found the food to be all that great and there are a lot of buffets, which I don't consider luxurious at all.  The motor coaches, in general, are okay, but in Lima, we were picked up by a coach that was littered with the previous riders garbage.  So I wouldn't use the word "always".



Interesting. I haven't really looked at the South America trips, so I can't comment. It seems like whenever they stay in large cities in Europe and Asia, they are always 4 and 5 star hotels right in the middle of town. I like the idea of breakfast buffets, but I can see it getting old for lunch and dinner, since buffet food is not always up to standard.

I think the good thing about a motorcoach is that it's private and goes right to where you need to go. No need to match your schedule with the public train and bus schedule. Obvously you could also get this renting a car, but in a place like Japan or France the gas and tolls add up quickly, and you have to drive it yourself. Leaving trash from the previous group is definitely not acceptable, but hopefully this is just a one-off problem and not a permanent issue.

What trips have you been on where the food wasn't good? Might be good feedback for ABD.


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## TheRustyScupper

*1) "Is it worth the cost?"
2) Depends upon your point of view.
3) EXAMPLES:
. . . a) We are taking two grown daughters and a friend each to Ireland for 15-days in just two weeks.
. . . b) We have a Private Driver guided tour, just for us six in the entire bus . . . very exclusive.
. . . c) The cost is less than ABD for all of us on one of the ABD "normal" ABD bus tours.
. . . d) Wife and I are doing Australia-NewZealand-Fiji next Mar-Apr for 35-days at 1/3 less than ABD.
. . . e) Both trips are lay-flat Biz Class seating, not CRAMPED tourist.*

*4)  TO US, "ABD" IS JUST AN OVERPRICED TOUR PROVIDER, CAPITALIZING ON THE DISNEY NAME! THEY OFFER NOTHING - - - NOTHING - - - OTHER TOURS CANNOT PROVIDE AT LESS COST.*


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## calypso726

TheRustyScupper said:


> *1) "Is it worth the cost?"
> 2) Depends upon your point of view.
> 3) EXAMPLES:
> . . . a) We are taking two grown daughters and a friend each to Ireland for 15-days in just two weeks.
> . . . b) We have a Private Driver guided tour, just for us six in the entire bus . . . very exclusive.
> . . . c) The cost is less than ABD for all of us on one of the ABD "normal" ABD bus tours.
> . . . d) Wife and I are doing Australia-NewZealand-Fiji next Mar-Apr for 35-days at 1/3 less than ABD.
> . . . e) Both trips are lay-flat Biz Class seating, not CRAMPED tourist.*
> 
> *4)  TO US, "ABD" IS JUST AN OVERPRICED TOUR PROVIDER, CAPITALIZING ON THE DISNEY NAME! THEY OFFER NOTHING - - - NOTHING - - - OTHER TOURS CANNOT PROVIDE AT LESS COST.*




*Name one tour that can provide the experience of launching a canoe right off Urquhart Castle onto Loch Ness.
AT. ANY. PRICE.

*


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## calypso726

TheRustyScupper said:


> *1) "Is it worth the cost?"
> 2) Depends upon your point of view.
> 3) EXAMPLES:
> . . . a) We are taking two grown daughters and a friend each to Ireland for 15-days in just two weeks.
> . . . b) We have a Private Driver guided tour, just for us six in the entire bus . . . very exclusive.
> . . . c) The cost is less than ABD for all of us on one of the ABD "normal" ABD bus tours.
> . . . d) Wife and I are doing Australia-NewZealand-Fiji next Mar-Apr for 35-days at 1/3 less than ABD.
> . . . e) Both trips are lay-flat Biz Class seating, not CRAMPED tourist.*
> 
> *4)  TO US, "ABD" IS JUST AN OVERPRICED TOUR PROVIDER, CAPITALIZING ON THE DISNEY NAME! THEY OFFER NOTHING - - - NOTHING - - - OTHER TOURS CANNOT PROVIDE AT LESS COST.*



While you try to find any tour operator that allows you to launch off Urquhart Castle onto Loch Ness, allow me to be nice and save you some time. You can't. Only ABD is allowed to do that. So with regards to your bullet point number 4, you are quite mistaken on that point.

Point number 2. Yes, of course it depends on your point of view. While launching off the Castle grounds to canoe Loch Ness may not be important to you or valuable, it does not negate the fact that the activity is ABD exclusive. ABD has a number of activities on various tours they offer that are ABD exclusive as well. Meaning, you can not have that experience with ANY other tour operator at ANY price. Again, your second sentence in point number 4 is wrong.

As to 3 e - ABD has never required that I fly in cramped tourist seating. Not sure what that even means, but I imagine you are referring to coach/economy seats. I rarely slum it in business class, much less economy. I am married to a Plane Princess after all (Budget Board friends will understand the reference )  So, I will see your lie flat business class seat, and raise it with my Singapore first class suite complete with unlimited Krug  I know, I know, pics or didn't happen. Here's two from flights to and from ABD trips.

 

I have also had a private driver for an Ireland trip coincidentally. Just me and my husband though. It was an awesome trip and we stayed in castles including one that ABD stays at on their itinerary. Yeah, it cost a bit less than an ABD. It was a great trip but my ABD trips have all been far more exciting and memorable. Mind you, I nearly recreated the entire ABD itinerary and then some and can still say that.

There are some intangibles on an ABD trip that you simply cannot put a price on. I know what I speak of because I have completed 10 ABD trips. Number 11 is booked. I also travel without ABD and create my own luxury style adventures. Sometime I do it with with points and miles. Sometimes I pay real money for them. I enjoy them all but my most memorable ones and most fun ones are with ABD. I give the ABD guides 90% of the credit because they are instrumental when it comes to creating fun memories and getting the group to bond. I can't put a price tag on those kinds of memories and experiences. Its not something you get until you experience it.

With regards to ABD capitalizing on the Disney name. They do and should because they deliver what one expects from Disney. With that I mean SAFETY! I know that when I travel with ABD I am in good hands. My safety will be their top priority. That was put to the test on my most recent ABD trip which was China. I want you to imagine being in a communist country where you don't speak the language, the culture is not similar to your own, traveling with some budget tour operator and you suddenly begin to have stroke symptoms. Imagine you've already read a few horror stories of tourists needing medical attention in China and now it's happening to you. Well it happened to me and thank goodness I was with ABD and not on my own or some budget tour operator. Imagine the type of service a well known celebrity would receive under the same circumstances and you will know how it was handled. I haven't fully recovered yet but I am grateful that it wasn't a stroke and it was only Bell's Palsy. More than that I am grateful that if the scariest moment I have experienced in my entire life had to happen in China, that I happened to be traveling with ABD when it did.


----------



## WanderlustNZ

As someone who feels extremely blessed to be able to ‘slum’ it in ‘tourist’ class seats in order to explore the wonderful, wide world, I’ve been shaking my head here, trying to figure out what plane class has got to do with the credibility of this discussion.  

But then I realised that at the end of the day, value of tours, like the value of plane seats, comes down to the perceived value of a dollar. One person’s $1 is the equivalent of another person’s $100, so debating whether that $10 item is affordable or good value is only going to be constructive to a very limited point.


----------



## Jess_S

I disagree with the statement that there is nothing you get from ABD that you cannot get from another provider at a lower price. When I compare ABD tours to other tours where you stay at similar caliber hotels with similar activities, the price for other providers is well in the range of ABD. Often, a price that seems to be lower is because either internal flights are not included or you are going to spend 6 hours in a coach where ABD would have put you on a short flight. In short, ABD seems to be competitively priced with other luxury tour companies. There also don't seem to be any other tour companies that do the kids movie night like ABD does and that was something that was a big value to me. I would never leave my son at home and travel without him, but having an evening without him where I got to talk to other adults was great.

I have been trying to find another provider for South Africa that matches up to ABD in terms of itinerary, and it has been a struggle. I have only found 1 other family tour company that covers all of the areas I would like to visit -- and that company uses a hotel in Cape Town that is not actually in Cape Town. For me, that's a serious negative because I like actually being in town if I am staying in an area. I am waiting for ABD to release their 2020 Africa dates before deciding what to book because I would choose ABD again all things being equal (or even ABD being a little more expensive). 

As far as using the Disney name, I think that ABD provides the number one thing that I associate with Disney. To me, that's excellent service. (My 5 year old actually did a little spiel on why Disney trips are good family trips after our last ABD where he compared ABD to our Disney World trip earlier in the year. His view is that all Disney trips are "good for small children and big children and also adults." He liked that he felt included on our ABD trip. Like DH and I, though, he also enjoys independent travel and he says that he wants to do both kinds of trips going forward).


----------



## calypso726

WanderlustNZ said:


> As someone who feels extremely blessed to be able to ‘slum’ it in ‘tourist’ class seats in order to explore the wonderful, wide world, I’ve been shaking my head here, trying to figure out what plane class has got to do with the credibility of this discussion.
> 
> But then I realised that at the end of the day, value of tours, like the value of plane seats, comes down to the perceived value of a dollar. One person’s $1 is the equivalent of another person’s $100, so debating whether that $10 item is affordable or good value is only going to be constructive to a very limited point.



Please allow me to apologize if my comment was taken differently than intended. “Slumming it” in business was meant to be a tongue in cheek retort to what I perceived was a snotty sarcastic comment “cramped tourist class.” If we are traveling out of our country we are “tourists” regardless of how we get there. Clearly anyone who is paying for airfare isn’t “slumming it” as air fare, especially internationally,  costs quite a bit. So calling it “slumming” for business class was intended to be a ridiculous comment.

Most of those who have read my trip reports or are regulars on the budget board’s credit card thread know I use points and miles in order to fly international first class. It’s a hobby that I enjoy and have also helped many others here on the Disboards learn so that they can travel more and create great memories with their families by mitigating their vacations costs with points and miles. They also know that I use the phrase “slumming it” in business very tongue in cheek. 

Again, I apologize to anyone who took this comment in any way other than as a tongue in cheek retort to therustyscupper’s cramped tourist comment.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Jess_S said:


> I disagree with the statement that there is nothing you get from ABD that you cannot get from another provider at a lower price. When I compare ABD tours to other tours where you stay at similar caliber hotels with similar activities, the price for other providers is well in the range of ABD. Often, a price that seems to be lower is because either internal flights are not included or you are going to spend 6 hours in a coach where ABD would have put you on a short flight. In short, ABD seems to be competitively priced with other luxury tour companies. There also don't seem to be any other tour companies that do the kids movie night like ABD does and that was something that was a big value to me. I would never leave my son at home and travel without him, but having an evening without him where I got to talk to other adults was great.
> 
> I have been trying to find another provider for South Africa that matches up to ABD in terms of itinerary, and it has been a struggle. I have only found 1 other family tour company that covers all of the areas I would like to visit -- and that company uses a hotel in Cape Town that is not actually in Cape Town. For me, that's a serious negative because I like actually being in town if I am staying in an area. I am waiting for ABD to release their 2020 Africa dates before deciding what to book because I would choose ABD again all things being equal (or even ABD being a little more expensive).
> 
> As far as using the Disney name, I think that ABD provides the number one thing that I associate with Disney. To me, that's excellent service. (My 5 year old actually did a little spiel on why Disney trips are good family trips after our last ABD where he compared ABD to our Disney World trip earlier in the year. His view is that all Disney trips are "good for small children and big children and also adults." He liked that he felt included on our ABD trip. Like DH and I, though, he also enjoys independent travel and he says that he wants to do both kinds of trips going forward).



I believe the National Geographic family S. Africa trip covers a lot of what the ABD trip does.  The hotel they use is well situated (and Uber is amazing in Cape Town for short car trips).  For any areas that aren't covered that you want to see, doing a pre or post stay in South Africa is very simple.  Also, South Africa is easy to do on your own as well.  I do highly recommend this as, in my opinion, the things that people want to see and do in Southern Africa will vary widely depending on each person -- my daughter and myself LOVE time on game drives and prefer private game drives).  Our next trip (in 2020) will include Rwanda (gorilla trekking), the Masai Mara, Tanzania and a stay in one of my favorite areas (for the leopards), Sabi Sands.  

A trip that covers a lot of ground that really isn't comparable to any other itineraries is the China trip.  I think the ABD trip does an excellent job of getting to all the major sights that most people want to cover (and adds in the parks ).  

While I have had my beefs with some aspects of ABD, I do think they provide an excellent, highly competitive product, which is why we are traveling with them to Japan in June, 2019 .  I am certain I am not alone in this feeling because all of the Japan trips sold out in a matter of days.


----------



## jimmymc

TheRustyScupper said:


> *1) "Is it worth the cost?"
> 2) Depends upon your point of view.
> 3) EXAMPLES:
> . . . a) We are taking two grown daughters and a friend each to Ireland for 15-days in just two weeks.
> . . . b) We have a Private Driver guided tour, just for us six in the entire bus . . . very exclusive.
> . . . c) The cost is less than ABD for all of us on one of the ABD "normal" ABD bus tours.
> . . . d) Wife and I are doing Australia-NewZealand-Fiji next Mar-Apr for 35-days at 1/3 less than ABD.
> . . . e) Both trips are lay-flat Biz Class seating, not CRAMPED tourist.*
> 
> *4)  TO US, "ABD" IS JUST AN OVERPRICED TOUR PROVIDER, CAPITALIZING ON THE DISNEY NAME! THEY OFFER NOTHING - - - NOTHING - - - OTHER TOURS CANNOT PROVIDE AT LESS COST.*



I'd be curious to see your price breakdown for both trips. Southeast Pacific is definitely a bucket list trip for me.


----------



## jimmymc

Jess_S said:


> I disagree with the statement that there is nothing you get from ABD that you cannot get from another provider at a lower price. When I compare ABD tours to other tours where you stay at similar caliber hotels with similar activities, the price for other providers is well in the range of ABD. Often, a price that seems to be lower is because either internal flights are not included or you are going to spend 6 hours in a coach where ABD would have put you on a short flight. In short, ABD seems to be competitively priced with other luxury tour companies. There also don't seem to be any other tour companies that do the kids movie night like ABD does and that was something that was a big value to me. I would never leave my son at home and travel without him, but having an evening without him where I got to talk to other adults was great.
> 
> I have been trying to find another provider for South Africa that matches up to ABD in terms of itinerary, and it has been a struggle. I have only found 1 other family tour company that covers all of the areas I would like to visit -- and that company uses a hotel in Cape Town that is not actually in Cape Town. For me, that's a serious negative because I like actually being in town if I am staying in an area. I am waiting for ABD to release their 2020 Africa dates before deciding what to book because I would choose ABD again all things being equal (or even ABD being a little more expensive).
> 
> As far as using the Disney name, I think that ABD provides the number one thing that I associate with Disney. To me, that's excellent service. (My 5 year old actually did a little spiel on why Disney trips are good family trips after our last ABD where he compared ABD to our Disney World trip earlier in the year. His view is that all Disney trips are "good for small children and big children and also adults." He liked that he felt included on our ABD trip. Like DH and I, though, he also enjoys independent travel and he says that he wants to do both kinds of trips going forward).



It's very hard to compare tours in general. Things like using buses vs using trains, the hotels, included meals, and special experiences usually vary. Even if you stay at the same hotels, one tour company may put people in smaller rooms while another uses suites. I know many companies will only include breakfast and one daily activity, while all other meals and activities are on your own.


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## Donalyn

WanderlustNZ said:


> But then I realised that at the end of the day, value of tours, like the value of plane seats, comes down to the perceived value of a dollar. One person’s $1 is the equivalent of another person’s $100, so debating whether that $10 item is affordable or good value is only going to be constructive to a very limited point.



Value is definitely in the eye of the beholder.  That is for everything.


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## Ava

I can't afford ABD, and will probably never be able to unless I win the lottery. But I still like reading this board (mainly this thread & the "Other Options" thread) to get ideas for destinations, itineraries, and travel providers so I can put together trips for my family that are within my budget. (Shout out to the credit card thread on the budget board for help with that too!) 



WanderlustNZ said:


> But then I realised that at the end of the day, value of tours, like the value of plane seats, comes down to the perceived value of a dollar. One person’s $1 is the equivalent of another person’s $100, so debating whether that $10 item is affordable or good value is only going to be constructive to a very limited point.


This is very true. People also have widely varied likes and dislikes. For example, @TheRustyScupper considers his privately guided tour in Ireland to be very exclusive and therefore of good value/desirable. The same scenario would make me uncomfortable/nervous; I would rather be part of a larger group with a guide or go on our own. Different strokes for different folks, as they say.


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## WanderlustNZ

Ava said:


> I can't afford ABD, and will probably never be able to unless I win the lottery. But I still like reading this board (mainly this thread & the "Other Options" thread) to get ideas for destinations, itineraries, and travel providers so I can put together trips for my family that are within my budget. (Shout out to the credit card thread on the budget board for help with that too!)
> 
> This is very true. People also have widely varied likes and dislikes. For example, TheRustyScupper considers his privately guided tour in Ireland to be very exclusive and therefore of good value/desirable. The same scenario would make me uncomfortable/nervous; I would rather be part of a larger group with a guide or go on our own. Different strokes for different folks, as they say.



I agree.  This board is interesting even though it’s not likely that I will be doing an ABD tour anytime soon.  I love discussions about travel in general and it’s nice that this board branches beyond the gates of a theme park.  

I also get what you’re saying about private tours.  When my husband and I did our Gate 1 tour of China, we ended up being the only 2 booked on the tour.  We flew between each destination and on arrival at each city we were met by both a  guide and a driver.  In some ways it felt pretty special having 2 staff assigned just to us, but on days when we were fatigued and needed some quiet time to think, there just wasn’t one of those quiet places on a bus where we could close our eyes for a few seconds and be inconspicuous.  By contrast, we once did a sold out Trafalgar tour where every seat on the bus was occupied and that wasn’t ideal either.  

I suppose I could afford ABD if I was happy to save longer and travel less frequently. However, I’ve found this happy balance between saving duration, travel style and travel length and if I tilted that balance to much in the wrong direction, I am likely to stop seeing the value.  I’ve been happy to penny pinch and go without a lot of luxuries for nearly 2 years now because my upcoming trip is 38 days long.  However, I wouldn’t be happy to save for two years for a 6 day trip of five star luxury.  Nor would I be happy to save for 2 years to spend 6 months camping.  Again, it all comes down to perception.


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## aggiedog

"Worth it" is always in the eye of the beholder.

I'm curious what made @rustyscupper feel the need to drop in and proclaim ABD is not for him.


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## jimmymc

Ava said:


> I can't afford ABD, and will probably never be able to unless I win the lottery. But I still like reading this board (mainly this thread & the "Other Options" thread) to get ideas for destinations, itineraries, and travel providers so I can put together trips for my family that are within my budget. (Shout out to the credit card thread on the budget board for help with that too!)
> 
> 
> This is very true. People also have widely varied likes and dislikes. For example, @TheRustyScupper considers his privately guided tour in Ireland to be very exclusive and therefore of good value/desirable. The same scenario would make me uncomfortable/nervous; I would rather be part of a larger group with a guide or go on our own. Different strokes for different folks, as they say.



I agree that this is the closest to a general travel board that we have here. The Japan trip has some places I definitely want to visit on my own, and the shows have given me ideas for Italy, China, and France.


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## Ava

WanderlustNZ said:


> I suppose I could afford ABD if I was happy to save longer and travel less frequently. However, I’ve found this happy balance between saving duration, travel style and travel length and if I tilted that balance to much in the wrong direction, I am likely to stop seeing the value.  I’ve been happy to penny pinch and go without a lot of luxuries for nearly 2 years now because my upcoming trip is 38 days long.  However, I wouldn’t be happy to save for two years for a 6 day trip of five star luxury.  Nor would I be happy to save for 2 years to spend 6 months camping.  Again, it all comes down to perception.


Wow, where are you going for 38 days? 

Since my oldest has been in school, we've kind of settled into a schedule of two ~week-long family vacations per year (one during their February break and one in the summer) and occasionally another long weekend trip. Easter/spring break, Thanksgiving, & Christmas are spent with extended family. I'm also limited by vacation time at work; I could probably get approved to take two consecutive weeks off during certain months when we're slower, but the only one of those months that overlaps with a long enough school break is July. So, until my kids are grown and I retire, I'll have to live vicariously through other people's long vacations!


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## WanderlustNZ

Ava said:


> Wow, where are you going for 38 days?
> 
> Since my oldest has been in school, we've kind of settled into a schedule of two ~week-long family vacations per year (one during their February break and one in the summer) and occasionally another long weekend trip. Easter/spring break, Thanksgiving, & Christmas are spent with extended family. I'm also limited by vacation time at work; I could probably get approved to take two consecutive weeks off during certain months when we're slower, but the only one of those months that overlaps with a long enough school break is July. So, until my kids are grown and I retire, I'll have to live vicariously through other people's long vacations!



A mix of places really.  A week in Orlando, 2 weeks doing a Gate 1 tour of Costa Rica, and 2 weeks on a Sthn Caribbean cruise.  Plus a few nights in LA and Miami.

I’ve wanted to visit Costa Rica to see wild animals for so long, but from where I live in New Zealand there just isn’t a cheap, direct way to get there. (Each way, a minimum of 3 flights, over 26hrs in transit inc. airport time, and far too many $$).
Finally we decided to bite the bullet and save like crazy (both money and work leave hours) to get there, but to make the travel worthwhile, we wanted to go for a decent amount of time.

It’s certainly not a regular occurrence for us to do long trips and we usually vacation for a week or less, heading to the likes of Australia or Fiji or road trips around NZ.    And to be honest, shorter trips will probably be our go to for a while after this trip as saving this hard for so long has been a bit draining. 
The problem is that the bucket list is just so long....


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## Ava

WanderlustNZ said:


> A mix of places really.  A week in Orlando, 2 weeks doing a Gate 1 tour of Costa Rica, and 2 weeks on a Sthn Caribbean cruise.  Plus a few nights in LA and Miami.
> 
> I’ve wanted to visit Costa Rica to see wild animals for so long, but from where I live in New Zealand there just isn’t a cheap, direct way to get there. (Each way, a minimum of 3 flights, over 26hrs in transit inc. airport time, and far too many $$).
> Finally we decided to bite the bullet and save like crazy (both money and work leave hours) to get there, but to make the travel worthwhile, we wanted to go for a decent amount of time.
> 
> It’s certainly not a regular occurrence for us to do long trips and we usually vacation for a week or less, heading to the likes of Australia or Fiji or road trips around NZ.    And to be honest, shorter trips will probably be our go to for a while after this trip as saving this hard for so long has been a bit draining.
> The problem is that the bucket list is just so long....


Sounds like a great trip! And I'm with you on wanting to spend a decent amount of time if you're going to fly halfway around the world. Australia & New Zealand are both on my bucket list but I would want to travel for at least a few weeks since it's so far for us.

I would love to hear your impressions of Costa Rica. It's one of the places I keep coming back to in my research that I think my kids would love, and you can find some fairly inexpensive tours to there. I don't think Gate 1 offers family tours (at least not that I can tell from their website) but there are ones with Trafalgar and G Adventures that both look good.


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## Magical2017

Travel lover here, also. We do not have the budget for ABD, but the tours look AMAZING! So do the Tauck tours. DH and I are not generally tour people, but with kids I'd definitely consider it, especially with all of the fun activities ABD seems to include. I am supposed to travel to Spain next summer for work, and then DH and the kids plan to join me. They want to got to Italy. If I had my way, I would have the kids help us plan a week or two on our own, and then add in a week with a tour company.


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## WanderlustNZ

Ava said:


> Sounds like a great trip! And I'm with you on wanting to spend a decent amount of time if you're going to fly halfway around the world. Australia & New Zealand are both on my bucket list but I would want to travel for at least a few weeks since it's so far for us.



I hope you do get a chance to get to NZ one day.  Like Australia, it is a great destination for families.  

For future reference, if you are comfortable driving in another country, happy planning your own trip, and physically able to do some short nature walks, then there is no better way of seeing NZ than on your own.  I would argue that until I’m blue in the face.
Also, other than a very expensive airfare, it need not break the bank.  I balk at the cost of tours to NZ, especially when the majority of our tourist highlights can be seen for free.
I would argue the same for Australia.  Best Australia memory: heading off the main road, not another soul in sight other than my family, and watching a group of wild koalas call to each other amongst the trees.   



Ava said:


> I would love to hear your impressions of Costa Rica. It's one of the places I keep coming back to in my research that I think my kids would love, and you can find some fairly inexpensive tours to there. I don't think Gate 1 offers family tours (at least not that I can tell from their website) but there are ones with Trafalgar and G Adventures that both look good.



Absolutely. I’m hoping it’s everything my mind has hyped it up to be.
Gate 1 don’t do family tours, but we are taking our son with us.  Their Costa Rica promotional video does reach out to families, but there is no guarantee there will be any other kids on our trip.  We’re okay if there aren’t, as our primary reasons for booking the tour are still being met.  It is taking the driving out of our hands (there are some places in the world I would prefer we didn’t drive), it will get us to the 4 destinations top of our CR bucket list (Tortuguero, Manuel Antonio, Arenal and Monteverde) and it was cheap (actually cheaper than doing a similar trip on our own - I priced up a comparison). During our optional freetime (of which we have quite a lot), we’ve booked a number of day tours with private or small group guides.  When it comes to finding wild animals and sharing spotting scopes, I don’t think large groups are the way to go.

I have no experience with G Adventures, but saw pros and cons to Trafalgar.  I would consider travelling with them again, but only if the price was really competitive.


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## Jess_S

Ava said:


> Sounds like a great trip! And I'm with you on wanting to spend a decent amount of time if you're going to fly halfway around the world. Australia & New Zealand are both on my bucket list but I would want to travel for at least a few weeks since it's so far for us.
> 
> I would love to hear your impressions of Costa Rica. It's one of the places I keep coming back to in my research that I think my kids would love, and you can find some fairly inexpensive tours to there. I don't think Gate 1 offers family tours (at least not that I can tell from their website) but there are ones with Trafalgar and G Adventures that both look good.



This is kind of OT for this thread, but Costa Rica is another destination that's great on your own. Excellent tourist infrastructure and hotels, affordable guides and drivers and spectacular natural beauty. I was literally moved to tears when I first saw the sun set over the jungle. My son -- who was 4 at the time -- still talks about that trip. 

The tripadvisor forum for CR is very active and I got lots of useful planning info there. Plus there are lots of trip reports to read (including one I did).


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## Ava

WanderlustNZ said:


> I hope you do get a chance to get to NZ one day.  Like Australia, it is a great destination for families.
> 
> For future reference, if you are comfortable driving in another country, happy planning your own trip, and physically able to do some short nature walks, then there is no better way of seeing NZ than on your own.  I would argue that until I’m blue in the face.
> Also, other than a very expensive airfare, it need not break the bank.  I balk at the cost of tours to NZ, especially when the majority of our tourist highlights can be seen for free.
> I would argue the same for Australia.  Best Australia memory: heading off the main road, not another soul in sight other than my family, and watching a group of wild koalas call to each other amongst the trees.


I don't really drive. I can, legally, but I've lived in NYC for 15 years and can probably count on one hand the number of times I've driven a car since then. So that's up to my wife.  I'm fine with planning my own trip though, to me planning the trip is half the fun. 
I think guided tours to Australia/NZ cost so much partly because they all seem to include internal flights in order to see a big portion of the country in 2 weeks or less. Which makes sense if the tour is geared at travelers from North America or Europe who may only fly that far to see AUS/NZ once in their lives. 




> Absolutely. I’m hoping it’s everything my mind has hyped it up to be.
> Gate 1 don’t do family tours, but we are taking our son with us.  Their Costa Rica promotional video does reach out to families, but there is no guarantee there will be any other kids on our trip.  We’re okay if there aren’t, as our primary reasons for booking the tour are still being met.  It is taking the driving out of our hands (there are some places in the world I would prefer we didn’t drive), it will get us to the 4 destinations top of our CR bucket list (Tortuguero, Manuel Antonio, Arenal and Monteverde) and it was cheap (actually cheaper than doing a similar trip on our own - I priced up a comparison). During our optional freetime (of which we have quite a lot), we’ve booked a number of day tours with private or small group guides.  When it comes to finding wild animals and sharing spotting scopes, I don’t think large groups are the way to go.
> 
> I have no experience with G Adventures, but saw pros and cons to Trafalgar.  I would consider travelling with them again, but only if the price was really competitive.


How old is your son? Some companies I've looked at allow children over a certain age on any of their tours, even if it's not a family tour, and some don't. I wish I could take a 2 week trip. The 1 week itineraries to CR that I've found visit either Tortuguero or Monteverde (in addition to Arenal and Manuel Antonio). I'm sure all 4 destinations is too much to fit into 1 week but I'm not sure which we'd like more.



Jess_S said:


> This is kind of OT for this thread, but Costa Rica is another destination that's great on your own. Excellent tourist infrastructure and hotels, affordable guides and drivers and spectacular natural beauty. I was literally moved to tears when I first saw the sun set over the jungle. My son -- who was 4 at the time -- still talks about that trip.
> 
> The tripadvisor forum for CR is very active and I got lots of useful planning info there. Plus there are lots of trip reports to read (including one I did).


Thanks for the tip on TripAdvisor. I sometimes find their forums a lot to wade through but if it's worthwhile I will try there.


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## Jess_S

Ava said:


> Thanks for the tip on TripAdvisor. I sometimes find their forums a lot to wade through but if it's worthwhile I will try there.



Their forums are definitely hit or miss. The Costa Rica one just happens to have several really passionate travelers who post there and are great about answering questions. I tried using one of the other forums to ask a question and it was crickets.


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## WanderlustNZ

Ava said:


> I don't really drive. I can, legally, but I've lived in NYC for 15 years and can probably count on one hand the number of times I've driven a car since then. So that's up to my wife.  I'm fine with planning my own trip though, to me planning the trip is half the fun.
> I think guided tours to Australia/NZ cost so much partly because they all seem to include internal flights in order to see a big portion of the country in 2 weeks or less. Which makes sense if the tour is geared at travelers from North America or Europe who may only fly that far to see AUS/NZ once in their lives.



I completely understand what you’re saying about internal flights and some internal flights can be quite expensive (particularly getting to the likes of Alice Springs, Uluru, or all the way to the Aussie West Coast), but others are pretty good value for money and generally not indicative of the expensive cost of the tours.  For example a flight between NZ’s North and South Islands need not cost you more than about US$70 p/p each way.
If you don’t like driving though (which is completely fair enough), then all my other arguments go out the window, and a tour is the way to go.  

Good point about the age of tours.  I just checked Gate 1 and the minimum age is 8. DS is 10, turning 11.


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