# Hawaii Tourism Not Starting Up Until Late Summer



## beachbunny

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2020/...ck-best-case-scenario-is-predicting-end-july/
Best case scenario, this article states that Hawaii won't be welcoming tourists until late summer.  So August?  Maybe.


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## Noah_t

Wonder if they will require a covid test to get in.


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## corgi_monster

Noah_t said:


> Wonder if they will require a covid test to get in.



Almost definitely.  Or some sort of proof that you already have the antibodies.

If the government doesn't require visitors to show some sort of proof that they are not actively carrying the disease, Hawaii residents will be up in arms.  I would expect a huge grassroots movement to include massive picket lines outside the airport and hotels, harassment, etc.  The negativity towards tourists is already out of hand and an open border with no testing would amplify it immensely.


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## Iceman93

Well, if they keep tourism closed then there will be plenty of unemployed people with nothing better to do than march in picket lines, I suppose...


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## Mark Thornhill

Their picket lines better look like dots spread out 6’ from one another.

.     .     .     .     .     .

The unemployed won’t be upset.  They are being bailed out by government stimulus and extensions in unemployment benefits.  

They’ll be perfectly fine for some time keeping tourists out.  At least through Summer.


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## Noah_t

Mark Thornhill said:


> Their picket lines better look like dots spread out 6’ from one another.
> 
> .     .     .     .     .     .
> 
> The unemployed won’t be upset.  They are being bailed out by government stimulus and extensions in unemployment benefits.
> 
> They’ll be perfectly fine for some time keeping tourists out.  At least through Summer.


One summer without being overrun with tourists.   I bet they are salivating over the possibility.  I think I would be.  Seeing pictures of Waikiki during this episode is pretty darn cool.


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## thanxfornoticin

For one of the states that depends very heavily on tourist dollars, they'll figure out a way to get people back to the islands with some safeguards.  But until quicker, more reliable testing is available, it's not going to be an easy thing to do.  A quick check of your temperature just really isn't enough.


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## _19disnA

corgi_monster said:


> Or some sort of proof that you already have the antibodies.



The medical experts do not know if having covid antibodies provides any type of immunity (or for how long).  Currently, having antibodies doesn't tell you anything meaningful.


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## thedogatemyhomework

doubtful that things will go anywhere near as planned.  tourist counts slowly climbing (and inevitably more people breaking quarantine)...this coming as reports that there could be 3 or more different strains of the virus already and getting 1 still leaves you vulnerable to the other 2.  theres also the worrying cases where the virus seems to have the ability to subside so that people look/feel/test as recovered...and then the virus "reactivates"...

all the prediction models for infection rates and fatalities are climbing as well...

proof that someone isn't carrying the virus is pretty much not possible barring some breakthrough in star trek level transporter tech.  a 14 day quarantine might miss some and even the most accurate tests could still miss people who recently got it.

the confusion is also continuing as the governor and mayors don't seem to be communicating much (if at all) as recently the state was going to allow retailers (oahu/maui) to re-open as early as thursday...then backtracked to may 15th (and no date for maui), and the mayor of oahu said he was blindsided by the initial announcement.

it follows previous actions like allowing florists to operate for mothers day...then reversing the decision...then reversing the decision again...

for those thinking that people are just happily collecting unemployment...hawaii probably has one of the most out of date systems for unemployment, and many who initially filed (and got lucky enough to get through early) for unemployment had to wait a very long time to even get a check...the effective poverty line for hawaii is around 60k per year (roughly 5k per month).  a $1200 stimulus check wouldn't come close to lasting a month.


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## stagmite

Mark Thornhill said:


> Their picket lines better look like dots spread out 6’ from one another.
> 
> .     .     .     .     .     .
> 
> The unemployed won’t be upset.  They are being bailed out by government stimulus and extensions in unemployment benefits.
> 
> They’ll be perfectly fine for some time keeping tourists out.  At least through Summer.



You can only go unemployed for so long even with the government stimulus. Personally I believe that there won't even be jobs for them to come back to if this extends into the summer. Alot of small businesses will probably go under. The government stimulus has a caveat that you have to use the money within 8 weeks after receiving it and 75% of it must go towards payroll in order for 75% of the total loan is forgiven. I got my PPP money early this week, so in a way I'm kind of lucky for not getting it during the first round when my state was on lock down. My business will be open this week so I can actually use that stimulus money for what it is intended for which is my employees. For the small businesses in Hawaii I feel sorry for them. You can't delay receipt of the money, so the 8 week clock begins as soon as you have received it. Since their businesses are closed they can't really pay their employees with it, so all they can do is pay for the rent and utilities with that money. However since 75% of that isn't going towards payroll you will eventually have to pay all that money back so a small business is just digging themselves into another debt hole.


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## corgi_monster

Mark Thornhill said:


> Their picket lines better look like dots spread out 6’ from one another.
> 
> .     .     .     .     .     .
> 
> The unemployed won’t be upset.  They are being bailed out by government stimulus and extensions in unemployment benefits.
> 
> They’ll be perfectly fine for some time keeping tourists out.  At least through Summer.




Lol, right?!?!  Damn hypocrite picketers!

There's a rumor going around that people will create a automobile picket line and block the roads around the airport if the state doesn't enforce the quarantine more effectively.  There has been an uptick in visitor arrivals lately and locals are very unhappy about it.  Just the idea of it is so wild to me . . . but this is a state where surfers were ready to paddle out and stop a cruise ship from docking in Hilo so *shrug*

I think the overwhelming majority of Hawaii residents will be happy to keep Hawaii closed throughout the summer as well.  There was a recent article in the Star Advertiser in which the head of the local economic recovery task force said there are a lot of people making more money from unemployment and are therefore unmotivated to go back to work . . . at least for now.  




_19disnA said:


> The medical experts do not know if having covid antibodies provides any type of immunity (or for how long).  Currently, having antibodies doesn't tell you anything meaningful.



I'm definitely not a medical expert - the antibody test is just a measure that the policy makers have mentioned over and over again.


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## Toolulu22

A few years ago, I read a book about the history of Hawaii.  One thing I learned was that when the measles virus was brought to the island, it nearly wiped out the native population.  Maybe the strong reaction to COVID-19, especially “ships bringing the virus” and travelers bringing it to the island stir up the horrible past for them. 

Hawaii has a history unique to mainland US, and its worth considering their unique perspective especially those of us who enjoy the beauty of the islands so much.

This is a brief story about the history of measles from the history channel for anyone unfamiliar.  

https://www.history.com/news/hawaii-monarchy-downfall-measles-outbreak


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## stagmite

Toolulu22 said:


> A few years ago, I read a book about the history of Hawaii.  One thing I learned was that when the measles virus was brought to the island, it nearly wiped out the native population.  Maybe the strong reaction to COVID-19, especially “ships bringing the virus” and travelers bringing it to the island stir up the horrible past for them.
> 
> Hawaii has a history unique to mainland US, and its worth considering their unique perspective especially those of us who enjoy the beauty of the islands so much.
> 
> This is a brief story about the history of measles from the history channel for anyone unfamiliar.
> 
> https://www.history.com/news/hawaii-monarchy-downfall-measles-outbreak



That happened in the 19th century. Let's not make this out to be more then what it is. People just don't like it when other people flaunt their law breaking behavior in front of their faces. Even if it is maybe a small minority of people that do it, it's just human nature to associate those negative traits to an entire demographic.


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## Quicklabs

Toolulu22 said:


> A few years ago, I read a book about the history of Hawaii.  One thing I learned was that when the measles virus was brought to the island, it nearly wiped out the native population.  Maybe the strong reaction to COVID-19, especially “ships bringing the virus” and travelers bringing it to the island stir up the horrible past for them.
> 
> Hawaii has a history unique to mainland US, and its worth considering their unique perspective especially those of us who enjoy the beauty of the islands so much.
> 
> This is a brief story about the history of measles from the history channel for anyone unfamiliar.
> 
> https://www.history.com/news/hawaii-monarchy-downfall-measles-outbreak


I was thinking of this very thing recently.


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## emilymad

The problem is the longer Hawaii remains closed (compared to other states) the less likely tourism continues in the future.  For example, we are considering a trip next May which seems very far away.  In reality we would need to start planning this trip over the summer.  If there is doubt that Hawaii will be very strict in either reopening or closing down during a wave 2 we will just plan a trip to a different destination.  I am not saying that staying closed, etc is in anyway the wrong choice but it won't be worth it to us to risk a vacation there.  It becomes a slippery slope of being closed for the summer vs how long until tourists come back at all.


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## ksromack

Toolulu22 said:


> A few years ago, I read a book about the history of Hawaii.  One thing I learned was that when the measles virus was brought to the island, it nearly wiped out the native population.  Maybe the strong reaction to COVID-19, especially “ships bringing the virus” and travelers bringing it to the island stir up the horrible past for them.
> 
> Hawaii has a history unique to mainland US, and its worth considering their unique perspective especially those of us who enjoy the beauty of the islands so much.
> 
> This is a brief story about the history of measles from the history channel for anyone unfamiliar.
> 
> https://www.history.com/news/hawaii-monarchy-downfall-measles-outbreak


Does the above mentioned article include the name of this book?  I would love to read up on the history of Hawaii!


emilymad said:


> The problem is the longer Hawaii remains closed (compared to other states) the less likely tourism continues in the future.  For example, we are considering a trip next May which seems very far away.  In reality we would need to start planning this trip over the summer.  If there is doubt that Hawaii will be very strict in either reopening or closing down during a wave 2 we will just plan a trip to a different destination.  I am not saying that staying closed, etc is in anyway the wrong choice but it won't be worth it to us to risk a vacation there.  It becomes a slippery slope of being closed for the summer vs how long until tourists come back at all.


Oh, I think people will always want to go to Hawaii.  We are in a similar boat as you.  Had a trip scheduled for this month and had to cancel everything.  Then we thought we would go in February only to discover the DVC borrowing points policy will be limited until who knows when.  Our use year is April so we thought we'd just try this trip in May 2021.  I think we will still plan this but I will be smarter this time around and maybe wait to purchase airfare.  I bought our airfare on christmas day of 2019....I had a great deal.  I will also wait to pay for things like Waikiki hotels, luaus, etc.....the disappointment of having to cancel this trip is pretty substantial and I don't want to be sad all over again!


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## thedogatemyhomework

it isn't just the length of the closure that will affect things (tho this will definitely be a factor for some), the reasons why it's closed, what happens when the re-start takes place (i.e. 14 day quarantine ends), and how companies (airlines and hotels) conducted themselves during the shutdown...theres probably more factors as well...are also potential factors.

for those that had nightmare encounters dealing with hotels and airlines getting refunds, or rescheduling...it may leave them less likely to want to fly/stay with those companies again...however if those are the only ones that are still around and/or in that persons price range...then they might be unlikely to return.

if the state lifts the quarantine "too early" and protests take place outside the airports, hotels and attractions...many people might be prone to believing that everyone in hawaii hates tourists and may decide not to come back.

from the resident point of view...its easy to see what has happened as beaches in california and florida re-opened...combine that with the number of people who have broken quarantine rules, the lack of enforcement early on, and it being difficult to understand why anyone would want to visit hawaii and just be stuck in their hotel room...and you can get some very angry people from a pool of confused and scared residents.

the history of hawaii isn't too much of a factor in the current situation.  many of the people who would protest for these reasons are protesting mauna kea...so they aren't going to be able to protest on oahu...and there is also a 14 day quarantine on inter island travel as well...so its not like its just out of state visitors get qurantined...its anyone (except essential travel exemptions) arriving on any of the islands.


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## Toolulu22

@ksromack James Michener- Hawaii


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## kyton

I don’t think there’s too much of a chance that people will “punish” Hawaii by not visiting - many people, my family included, love Hawaii and will return as soon as both governments decide it is in everyone’s best interests to declare it safe. in saying that, I will err on the side of caution and include a very large buffer of time after that declaration just to ensure that my family and the citizens of Hawaii are protected from any germs we may bring with us.


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## cgattis

thedogatemyhomework said:


> for those that had nightmare encounters dealing with hotels and airlines getting refunds, or rescheduling...it may leave them less likely to want to fly/stay with those companies again...


This.  We flew Delta on our previous trip because we’d have to split the fare to use Hawaiian Airlines, and I just didn’t want to chance that.  But I had considered Hawaiian for our next trip in 2022.....now I think that’s out. I’d like to think if something happened and we couldn’t travel, I’d just reschedule and use credits, but for what we pay traveling from the southeast, for 4 people, I really think a credit versus a refund may be a deal-breaker.


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## _auroraborealis_

stagmite said:


> That happened in the 19th century. Let's not make this out to be more then what it is. People just don't like it when other people flaunt their law breaking behavior in front of their faces. Even if it is maybe a small minority of people that do it, it's just human nature to associate those negative traits to an entire demographic.



Memories of those who have been colonized against their will is long, longer than those who are not of those groups tend to appreciate.


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## BlueRibbon

Even with the Aloha spirit, when people can't eat and/or start losing their houses, there is going to be pressure put on local government to open back up:

https://news.yahoo.com/life-danger-hawaii-battles-record-120502186.html


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## Mark Thornhill

BlueRibbon said:


> Even with the Aloha spirit, when people can't eat and/or start losing their houses, there is going to be pressure put on local government to open back up:
> 
> https://news.yahoo.com/life-danger-hawaii-battles-record-120502186.html



Here is the part I don’t get.  Hawaii’s numbers for cases and deaths are remarkably low.  They isolated themselves from mainland with their quarantine and it worked.  Great, awesome.

Is the plan from here to stay isolated until a vaccine is in place?  That will be the end of the year at the absolute best case scenario.

Or is the plan to open up in the next month or so with required testing for prospective tourists? Maybe someone knows the numbers better than I highly question if HI will ever have the # of tests required to keep up with incoming daily tourist rates....at least anytime soon.  I’m seeing ~600 tests per day now, that won’t cut it.  What are daily tourist rates in Summer 30k or so?  Even if tests are available, they’re not perfect.  Exposure is inevitable.  The plan and resources available after exposure is what’s important.

If the idea is that Hawai’i will only reopen their economy under the premise that their confirmed cases/deaths will remain consistent to the last two weeks or so, then there is no way they open this Summer or even Fall for that matter.
Where is a plan that opens up economy anytime soon?  I don’t see it and if the leadership’s game plan is to follow the lead of other west coast states, then God be with the state of Hawaii.  Their economy will be devastated.  What you see now in HI is cupcakes compared to what it’ll look like in July/August.

it would appear leadership chose the quarantine and life w/o much consideration for the economy or the greater population of people.  Not going to fault them for that, hard to argue.  But buckle down Hawai’i, it’ll be tough to watch as someone who lived in Oahu for years and still makes it back whenever I can.


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## travelmomof3

emilymad said:


> The problem is the longer Hawaii remains closed (compared to other states) the less likely tourism continues in the future.  For example, we are considering a trip next May which seems very far away.  In reality we would need to start planning this trip over the summer.  If there is doubt that Hawaii will be very strict in either reopening or closing down during a wave 2 we will just plan a trip to a different destination.  I am not saying that staying closed, etc is in anyway the wrong choice but it won't be worth it to us to risk a vacation there.  It becomes a slippery slope of being closed for the summer vs how long until tourists come back at all.


I agree.  As much as I like Hawaii I'd prefer to book my trips to places I think will be welcoming to tourists.


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## thedogatemyhomework

the more time that passes the more it becomes clear that there isn't a plan, and hasn't ever been one beyond "lets wait and see how this plays out".  for march, and most of april that was an ok plan...there wasn't enough information, supplies were...difficult to come by, and shutting things down for a while could provide enough time to regroup, and figure out a real plan.

problem is...there still isn't much of a plan...due to hawaii's situation any effective plan would need full buy in from the hotels, airlines, and transportation (bus/taxi/etc.)...and its only been in the past week that it seems like the hotels and transportation have been more involved (one time use key cards for hotels, and no rentals for tourists...I believe both are voluntary...).

the only "phase" thats being discussed for loosening restrictions currently are the "medium risk" businesses (tourism and large gatherings being "high risk").  the lt. governors suggested plan of testing before getting on the plane to fly over would require a ton of other states to agree as well as all the airlines.  if it took nearly 2 months to go from no enforcement of self quarantine to 1 time use key card with local hotels (and this would only trigger a call to the police when the guest returns to the front desk to get another key...)...not sure how long (if at all) it would take to get airlines to agree/implement/enforce the testing before flying bit.

friday will be very telling as far as just how many small businesses have simply called it and closed for good (oahu retailers in the low risk category can re-open on friday)...and the following week may see even more as many who were hoping to stay open may not see enough business return quickly enough for that to be possible.  for those that were lucky enough to get the ppp loans...they may have another few weeks before they have to decide...so that'll be anither interesting week in...mid june or so.

the really bad part for hawaii may still be coming...if things deteriorate in other states...and it becomes necessary to deploy troops...the last lifeline (military...since their income comes from outside the local economy) will go poof.


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## yowcruiser

As of May 12, Aulani is accepting reservations after July 1st with a disclaimer that it may open before or after this date, at reduced capacity and with restrictions on the experiences that will be available


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## corgi_monster

yowcruiser said:


> As of May 12, Aulani is accepting reservations after July 1st with a disclaimer that it may open before or after this date, at reduced capacity and with restrictions on the experiences that will be available



Both the stay-at-home and 14 day quarantine are extended to June 30 so no staycations and virtually no incoming tourists.  I don’t think Aulani will open before July 1.


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## Sepo

Good thread.

This is a real tough situation.

Word of caution on the numbers. While Hawaii has been very fortunate, it is / was quite hard to test optimally: long turnaround times and limited kits for low-symptom folks. Many doctors in Hawaii reported so much classic Covid, weeks before they were allowed to test, in patients who ultimately never got tested. But regardless, their “serious” case levels have been refreshingly low per capita.

This is a plague of unknowns for Hawaii especially, who relies on tourism at 35K daily at peak times from all directions. Unlike an endemic and epidemic, you cannot contain a pandemic in a short window of months. And getting it wrong, especially this one, can devastate the island in ways that the mainland would not face. 

What, when, and how is so unclear to even those of us treating it daily. Swab testing is invasive and uncomfortable and impractical for all travelers. And antibody tests are a big question given the inherent immune response delay and high false negative rate (you’d rather it be the other way: a good test must be sensitive, even if sometimes false positive). And, as a PP stated, they are  of potential limited value anyway.  Even vaccines will be an unknown given the 3 strains and general history of at best partial effectiveness in similar situations. The Lt Gov was doling out uncooked antibody and pre-flight testing schemes that the local news ran with but the truth is the actual effectiveness is in doubt. 

Open too soon: more lockdown with strained resources nearing disaster. 
Open too late: unrecoverable economic disaster.


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## counselormom

corgi_monster said:


> Both the stay-at-home and 14 day quarantine are extended to June 30 so no staycations and virtually no incoming tourists.  I don’t think Aulani will open before July 1.



Do you think the Gov. will extend it after the June 30 date?  I’m still holding out hope for our late July trip but it’s fading fast.  I’m also wondering when an announcement would be made about allowing tourism to resume.


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## Budzooka

counselormom said:


> Do you think the Gov. will extend it after the June 30 date?  I’m still holding out hope for our late July trip but it’s fading fast.  I’m also wondering when an announcement would be made about allowing tourism to resume.


No kidding. We are scheduled to arrive July 6. First trip there and hope it can happen.


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## Mark Thornhill

We had a trip planned for Mid-July but I cancelled.  Part of the Disney experience is that incredible lead up to departure date.  I feel like at absolute best it will be end of June before we'd know for sure we could go and second, and the experience will be a shell of what it's been in the past.  That's just me though, best wishes for all of you.

I had two charter boats scheduled to deep sea fish while in Oahu.  The captain rightfully returned my deposit(s) but I felt terrible.  His exact words "the effort to keep the virus off the island is more devastating than the virus".  Ugh.


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## SinCityMMAFan

counselormom said:


> Do you think the Gov. will extend it after the June 30 date?  I’m still holding out hope for our late July trip but it’s fading fast.  I’m also wondering when an announcement would be made about allowing tourism to resume.


I feel for anyone in a situation similar to yours.  It's very hard to gauge when Hawaii will allow tourism again.  I've heard everything from late July to fall to not until there's a vaccine which is anyone's guess when one will be available.  I do know that the Lt. Governor this past week mentioned that he is trying to get a system going where arrivals to the islands would get tested either at the airport or at the hotel in which they are staying.  I really have no idea how that's going to work with as many flights that come into that airport but I guess it's something that they are looking into and will have to work the wrinkles out of if that's in fact what they are looking to do in order to get tourism back up and running.  We currently have a trip planned for September and will be looking to move the airfare and reservation to next April.  We were both looking forward to this trip and have been planning it for quite some time but since it's Hawaii and a very expensive vacation we rather put it off until next year and hope things will be back to normal or closer to normal.  I would hate to spends thousands on a vacation and come away with a subpar experience.


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## jodybird511

I have to say, I felt some relief at the extension of the stay-at-home order.  We had originally been planning to arrive on the Big Island on June 22 and at Aulani on June 25.  We formally canceled about 10 days ago, though had really known for weeks that we would likely be canceling.  I felt good knowing that we wouldn't have been able to go anyway at this point.  Hoping to go next summer instead, but who knows...


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## SinCityMMAFan

Mark Thornhill said:


> We had a trip planned for Mid-July but I cancelled.  Part of the Disney experience is that incredible lead up to departure date.  I feel like at absolute best it will be end of June before we'd know for sure we could go and second, and the experience will be a shell of what it's been in the past.  That's just me though, best wishes for all of you.
> 
> I had two charter boats scheduled to deep sea fish while in Oahu.  *The captain rightfully returned my deposit(s) but I felt terrible*.  His exact words "the effort to keep the virus off the island is more devastating than the virus".  Ugh.



Glad you were able to get your $ back for that.  I know how expensive those charters boats are in Hawaii.  Hopefully when you get to go back to Hawaii you can reschedule with the same captain.


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## corgi_monster

I highly doubt the 14 day requirement for out-of-state passengers will be lifted before July.  At the moment, there is still very strong public sentiment against opening Hawaii up to tourism. Politicians don't seem very motivated to reopen either.  For weeks now, state leaders have been talking about crafting a reopening plan . . . but there is still no official plan.  

The 14 day quarantine for inter-island travel is still in place.  After the inter-island quarantine requirement is lifted, the state will want to observe the numbers for a few weeks before even considering lifting the out-of-state quarantine requirement.  

It's impossible to know when tourism will open up, but my best guess will be late August or early September.  Visitor numbers started to plunge in March and that's when people first started to file unemployment claims.  You can receive up to 6 months of unemployment in Hawaii (or did the federal aid package extend the time frame?).  I think the tide of public sentiment will start to turn a month or two before the unemployment checks are scheduled to stop.


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## _auroraborealis_

The Abbott tests are rubbish. Anyone who has been leaning on them as hope to open something needs to not do that.


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## VandVsmama

The Hawaii governor announced that the 14 day visitor quarantines will continue through June.


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## longboard55

I would guess the chances of anymore free money from the government are low.  If i had to make a guess they open Aug1 after the $600 ends


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## thedogatemyhomework

technically the governor has only announced that he currently plans to extend the self quarantine...the self quarantine hasn't been officially extended..yet.  the mayors seem to be trying to keep to their mid month policy updates (with smaller updates coming as needed/permitted).

with national news media having already broadcast that it is official...there might be even more backlash if he decides to change his mind.  it is however different that this time around the governor and mayors were talking prior to announcements being made.  given the incident with the flower shops and mothers day...it is not impossible that  he changes his mind once or twice before the official update happens.

the fishing industry is far more dependent on japan's outlook than the US (as far as the fishing industry in hawaii goes)...so until japan gets back on track the fishing industry in hawaii is going to be hurting...bad.  even if the visitor quarantine is lifted soon...fishing charters may not recover for a lot longer.


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## longboard55

Hawaii is a state where $26 an hour hotel maids are considered normal.   If they think they can shut off tourism they will be getting a wake up call


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## VandVsmama

I read about it on local Hawaii news, not national news.


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## thedogatemyhomework

several of the local hawaii news outlets bundled the governors announcement of his plans with the actual updates from the mayor of oahu, while national outlets (like cnn) just flat out stated that hawaii extended the quarantine.


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## heaven2dc

VandVsmama said:


> The Hawaii governor announced that the 14 day visitor quarantines will continue through June.



Where did you find the official announcement?  I read that Governor Ige was thinking of extending it until June 30 but as of today, I didn't see an official announcement.  The stay-at-home order has been extended until June 30 for Oahu.


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## VandVsmama

heaven2dc said:


> Where did you find the official announcement?  I read that Governor Ige was thinking of extending it until June 30 but as of today, I didn't see an office announcement.  The stay-at-home order has been extended until June 30 for Oahu.



You can google it.


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## heaven2dc

VandVsmama said:


> You can google it.



Well that was vague lol   I was looking for an official announcement from the governor and couldn't find on any local news, just San Francisco news website.  

If anyone else finds the official announcement, would you mind sharing the link?  Thank you


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## thedogatemyhomework

heaven2dc said:


> Well that was vague lol   I was looking for an official announcement from the governor and couldn't find on any local news, just San Francisco news website.
> 
> If anyone else finds the official announcement, would you mind sharing the link?  Thank you


there isn't one yet...

here's the official state of hawaii "status" website (or go through hawaii.gov to get to the same site but from the official state of hawaii web page)

https://hawaiicovid19.com/
the last "decision/guidance" entry is from 5/5...but the latest "status" is from 5/15.  the 5/15 update at least indicates the site has been updated very recently (multiple times on 5/15 too), and the lack of a post to officially extend the self quarantine to end of june is very noticeable.

of course it could also mean that someone just forgot to post that 1 specific thing...if the budget people can somehow make a $500 million mistake and not catch it for about a month...forgetting to post 1 piece of information on a website is rather small in comparison.


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## SwirlTheCitrus

Just cancelled our July 12th arrival... I don't think Hawaii will be there yet.  I was able to reschedule for December at Disney World.


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## bower007

Currently scheduled for a mid-October trip. I honestly haven't given it too much thought, but with all the uncertainty of what's transpiring and lack of announcements concerning tourism, I'm beginning to get a little anxious.  I know a lot can happen in 5 months, but there's still the possibility of the virus making a comeback in the fall.  I hate to think negatively about our upcoming trip, when it's supposed to be a celebration.  We have not bought airfare yet, so if there's an upside I guess that's it.


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## morrik5

We are booked with our friends for our 65th birthdays celebration, staying in separate suites at their timeshare on Lewers St in Waikiki for 2 weeks in November this year. We had just finished booking our flights when this pandemic and subsequent shutdowns occurred. We've decided to cancel the flights and get a full credit with no penalty while we can "just in case we don't go" and have up to a lot closer to check-in day to decide whether we will cancel the rooms as well.

I was looking forward to one of the days where we rented a car to try to visit Aulani just to check out the lobby like we do the hotels on Kalakaua Ave. 

Give me Fort Wilderness at Walt Disney World anytime to make this hiccup seem less concerning anytime.


----------



## Primeval Princess

corgi_monster said:


> Almost definitely.  Or some sort of proof that you already have the antibodies.
> 
> If the government doesn't require visitors to show some sort of proof that they are not actively carrying the disease, Hawaii residents will be up in arms.  I would expect a huge grassroots movement to include massive picket lines outside the airport and hotels, harassment, etc.  The negativity towards tourists is already out of hand and an open border with no testing would amplify it immensely.


How would tourism ever revive with those kind of traveler-unfriendly rules?  How many tourists, especially whole families traveling together, are going to pay the high, nonrefundable airfare costs to get to Hawaii, only to possibly be turned away upon entry?  I think few people would take the risk of making those reservations.  And there goes Hawaii's economy.


----------



## kverdon

Any sort of medical requirement for tourists is impractical.  There is no proof yet that having Covid antibodies provides any type of immunity. It just tells that you have been exposed to the disease.  Covid antigen tests are expanding but all the tests are invasive, require a credentialed professional to collect the specimens and all the rapid, point of care tests have issues that can allow up to a 15% false negative rate. That does not even begin to address the logistic nightmare of how to setup a quarantine area for folks to get tested and then be held until they get their results.


----------



## corgi_monster

Primeval Princess said:


> How would tourism ever revive with those kind of traveler-unfriendly rules?  How many tourists, especially whole families traveling together, are going to pay the high, nonrefundable airfare costs to get to Hawaii, only to possibly be turned away upon entry?  I think few people would take the risk of making those reservations.  And there goes Hawaii's economy.



Many won't come . . . at least for a while. But many will come.  Asian tourists, who make up a significant portion of visitors, will have no problem undergoing health checks - temperature/health checks have been in place in Japan for years now.  I'm not implying that temperature checks, antibody tests, etc. are sufficient safeguards against covid-19.  I'm just saying that the idea of a mandatory health check is probably acceptable to many Asian tourists since it's normal in those countries.

I think most Hawaii residents will welcome a permanent downturn in tourism.  Prior to the pandemic, the word "overtourism" made headlines every week.  In the past couple of years, efforts have been made to reduce tourism - making short-term rental illegal, requiring permits to access part of Kauai's north shore, and raising transient accommodation taxes.  

As a Hawaii resident, I have shelved all my vacations plans for the rest of 2020 and will probably reschedule a January 2021 WDW trip because I'm worried about catching a cold and not being allowed to come home.  And even if I am healthy and can fly home, will the state implement another 14-day quarantine  in the middle of my trip due to a 2nd wave of coronavirus?  Visitors are upset because they're not being allowed free access to the islands.  But it goes both ways and lots of residents feel they can't leave for the foreseeable future.


----------



## Iceman93

corgi_monster said:


> I think most Hawaii residents will welcome a permanent downturn in tourism.  Prior to the pandemic, the word "overtourism" made headlines every week.  In the past couple of years, efforts have been made to reduce tourism - making short-term rental illegal, requiring permits to access part of Kauai's north shore, and raising transient accommodation taxes.



Certainly some residents, but I wouldn't say most.  So many Hawaii residents are dependent on tourism.  And even those who wanted to limit tourism didn't have in mind to eliminate tourism completely.  As for raising transient accommodation taxes, that was just a logical response to the ever-increasing demand--keep raising prices to what the market will bear.  Hawaii has had a good couple of decades, between those taxes and the pork from Senator Inouye.  God rest his soul, Dan is gone and with him his seniority and connections to keep the federal money flowing into the islands.  If any Hawaiians think they can maintain their current quality of life without tourists, they are either delusional or truly want to go back to the native days (and I suspect they have no idea what those days were really like).


----------



## VandVsmama

https://mauinow.com/2020/05/18/gov-...uarantine-unveils-states-roadmap-to-recovery/


----------



## thedogatemyhomework

it is now official that the visitor quarantine is extended through end of june, however given the phased re-open plans and 2 week "observation period" between phases...if any phase is extended it essentially pushes out the date another 2 weeks...lots of ambiguity still...but a little more of a plan seems to be in place.

and this is of course assuming that the visitor quarantine is lifted at phase 4...the disruption levels are for residents (a 14 day quarantine should be a huge disruption for any tourist)...so "new normal" and "no disruption" does not necessarily imply quarantine gone.

the more worrying bits of news recently are how many people who break quarantine are only caught due to flagrantly flaunting doing so on social media...and even then they seem to almost get away with it in some cases (1 person was arrested 1 hour prior to flying back home).  which brings into question...why have a quarantine if so little is done to enforce it?

the lack of enforcement is going to prove problematic as those who are capable of acting responsibly are generally choosing to delay trips...while those who aren't may be emboldened by how much others are getting away with prior to being caught.


----------



## SwirlTheCitrus

thedogatemyhomework said:


> it is now official that the visitor quarantine is extended through end of june, however given the phased re-open plans and 2 week "observation period" between phases...if any phase is extended it essentially pushes out the date another 2 weeks...lots of ambiguity still...but a little more of a plan seems to be in place.
> 
> and this is of course assuming that the visitor quarantine is lifted at phase 4...the disruption levels are for residents (a 14 day quarantine should be a huge disruption for any tourist)...so "new normal" and "no disruption" does not necessarily imply quarantine gone.
> 
> the more worrying bits of news recently are how many people who break quarantine are only caught due to flagrantly flaunting doing so on social media...and even then they seem to almost get away with it in some cases (1 person was arrested 1 hour prior to flying back home).  which brings into question...why have a quarantine if so little is done to enforce it?
> 
> the lack of enforcement is going to prove problematic as those who are capable of acting responsibly are generally choosing to delay trips...while those who aren't may be emboldened by how much others are getting away with prior to being caught.


So... July 12th probably not happening? My friend is refusing to rebook her DVC... I'm worried she will lose the option of rebooking her points.


----------



## kverdon

I have not read about a phase 3 or phase 4? Is that something being reported locally?

NM. Just found it. It just does not spell out what phase Tourism in going to be included in.


----------



## SwirlTheCitrus

https://www.westhawaiitoday.com/202...plan-extends-14-day-quarantine-for-travelers/Just another article; looks like even if Aulani can open in phase 2, it will be at least the end of July if not August. That estimate sound about right?


----------



## thedogatemyhomework

phase 3 and 4 were basically just graphics with words on a chart...tho phase 3 is supposed to be when nightclubs/bars can re-open as "high risk".

prior to this tourism was also "high risk"...but it was either left out intentionally or is being treated as "very high risk" or "extremely high risk" (i.e. phase 4 or....phase 5?)

july 12th is...possible...but relies on so many things not going wrong that until maybe mid june based on the announced plans...it's not really possible to say one way or the other.  aulani can re-open at any time they wish (hotels having been classified as an "essential business" from the start)...whether or not they should re-open prior to the visitor quarantine being dropped is a completely different story.

if they do re-open then those who can stay longer than 14 days have the option to go...as well as those who would not mind simply staying in an ocean view room and sitting on their balcony the whole time.  the flip side being that for those that do not find either possible or appealing...refunds, rebooking, etc. become less possible and/or appealing.


----------



## heaven2dc

VandVsmama said:


> https://mauinow.com/2020/05/18/gov-...uarantine-unveils-states-roadmap-to-recovery/



Thanks for sharing the official notification!


----------



## jkips

There’s a good article on Bloomberg today titled “ ‘Don’t Come’: Hawaii Monthball $17.8 Billion Tourist Industry.”  It makes very clear you do not want to be going to the state for a vacation during the travel quarantine.  It also mentions how HI’s Governor David Ige last week said he plans to extend the travel quarantine through at least June.


----------



## audrey2580

jkips said:


> There’s a good article on Bloomberg today titled “ ‘Don’t Come’: Hawaii Monthball $17.8 Billion Tourist Industry.”  It makes very clear you do not want to be going to the state for a vacation during the travel quarantine.  It also mentions how HI’s Governor David Ige last week said he plans to extend the travel quarantine through at least June.


 The travel quarantine was officially extended to June 30th yesterday


----------



## corgi_monster

SwirlTheCitrus said:


> https://www.westhawaiitoday.com/202...plan-extends-14-day-quarantine-for-travelers/Just another article; looks like even if Aulani can open in phase 2, it will be at least the end of July if not August. That estimate sound about right?



Aulani resort as a whole could open today if they wanted to.  Lodging is considered essential and was never required to shut down.  The individual restaurants, spa, etc. within the hotel will be subject to government reopening guidelines though.  I'm unsure when the pool area would be allowed to open.  Swimming is exercising and is allowable under the stay-at-home orders.  However, people are technically not allowed to sit on park benches, hang out on the grass, etc. so I don't think sitting on lounge chairs would be allowed.  Beaches are open and you can sit on the sand, though  



SwirlTheCitrus said:


> So... July 12th probably not happening? My friend is refusing to rebook her DVC... I'm worried she will lose the option of rebooking her points.



Aulani may be open on July 12 but I'm 99.9% certain the 14-day quarantine will still be in place.

There is an excellent article in today's local newspaper and its assessment of the current mood is spot on.  There is no public demand and no political will to open up Hawaii to tourism this summer.   https://www.staradvertiser.com/2020...eopening-to-both-tourists-and-new-infections/


----------



## SwirlTheCitrus

corgi_monster said:


> Aulani resort as a whole could open today if they wanted to.  Lodging is considered essential and was never required to shut down.  The individual restaurants, spa, etc. within the hotel will be subject to government reopening guidelines though.  I'm unsure when the pool area would be allowed to open.  Swimming is exercising and is allowable under the stay-at-home orders.  However, people are technically not allowed to sit on park benches, hang out on the grass, etc. so I don't think sitting on lounge chairs would be allowed.  Beaches are open and you can sit on the sand, though
> 
> 
> 
> Aulani may be open on July 12 but I'm 99.9% certain the 14-day quarantine will still be in place.
> 
> There is an excellent article in today's local newspaper and its assessment of the current mood is spot on.  There is no public demand and no political will to open up Hawaii to tourism this summer.   https://www.staradvertiser.com/2020...eopening-to-both-tourists-and-new-infections/


Thank you for your analysis! It makes sense, just a bummer. I appreciate the article!


----------



## kverdon

I watched an interview with the Mayor of Maui where he said they need tourists back soon.  They have something like 35,000 unemployed on the Island. He said it is taking down most of the Island's buisness, not just the hotels  but in service companies that maintain the grounds and buildings of the hotels. He said the island has no where near the population to support the restaurants on the Island and with 35000 of them unemployed, no money to eat out. He agreed that they would like to see the amount of tourists reduced but the loss of 5.1 billion in revenue is hurting the Island big time.  Hawaiian Airlines is loosing 3.6 million a day. Tourism will probably be coming back sooner than later but I've mentally written off our July 4th trip to Maui.  Unless their is a buisness revolt, no way they are opening up by then.


----------



## VandVsmama

corgi_monster said:


> Aulani resort as a whole could open today if they wanted to.  Lodging is considered essential and was never required to shut down.  The individual restaurants, spa, etc. within the hotel will be subject to government reopening guidelines though.  I'm unsure when the pool area would be allowed to open.  Swimming is exercising and is allowable under the stay-at-home orders.  However, people are technically not allowed to sit on park benches, hang out on the grass, etc. so I don't think sitting on lounge chairs would be allowed.  Beaches are open and you can sit on the sand, though
> 
> 
> 
> Aulani may be open on July 12 but I'm 99.9% certain the 14-day quarantine will still be in place.
> 
> There is an excellent article in today's local newspaper and its assessment of the current mood is spot on.  There is no public demand and no political will to open up Hawaii to tourism this summer.   https://www.staradvertiser.com/2020...eopening-to-both-tourists-and-new-infections/



It's definitely a challenging situation because so much of the state economy currently depends on tourism.  If they keep the state shut down for too long, many small businesses are going to close.  There's a trickle down effect to the total lack of tourism.

Just consider the real estate market.  This may not apply as much on Oahu, but on islands like Maui, there's a lot of AirBNB & VRBO condo rental business.  Let's say a fair percentage of condo owners rent them out through VRBO or locally-managed condo rental companies.

Well, if you rely on your unit being rented a certain percentage of each month in order to pay the mortgage AND if rentals are WAY down because the state is essentially closed to visitors OR if visitors don't WANT to go to that island because of restrictive policies (like needing to get a corona virus test before you arrive), then what you'll see is foreclosures increasing.


----------



## _auroraborealis_

corgi_monster said:


> Aulani resort as a whole could open today if they wanted to. Lodging is considered essential and was never required to shut down.



Disney don't want to be enforcing the quarantine rules. Wandering around, sitting on the beach, and etc. becomes a problem under those rules. The average visitor to AUL wants the luau, characters, Aunty's, and is going to be highly resistant to the rules on quarantine.


----------



## kverdon

True, I highly, seriously doubt Aulani would open while the Islands are under quarantine. It is purposely too restrictive to make it worth a trip.

As to the Real Estate side, we were renting from a couple who owns a number of condos they rent  out via VRBO.  They must be hurting BIG TIME with zero income to cover the last 3 months of payments.  It's true that foreclosures are prohibitted right now but that doesn't mean the back payments aren't acruing.  I think they only reason it is in place is that Hawaii hasn't processed over 70,000 unemployment claims yet so people just don't have the money.  This is going to hit 10's of thousands of people in waves, 1rst the loss of job and income then the wave of back mortage/rent payments and then again next April when they get hit with their tax bill for the taxes that are not withheld from the unemployment payouts.


----------



## thedogatemyhomework

for many residents the losses being felt by airbnb, vrbo, etc. are viewed as a benefit...not so much as a problem.

for many residents the part of tourism that would be considered "over tourism" aren't the tourists that flock to hotels...but the ones that spurred the airbnb/vrbo rentals that helped drive up housing prices.

its not just disney that doesn't want to enforce the quarantine...many other hotels remain closed (likely for similar reasons), and even the city doesn't want to have to dedicate that many police officers to quarantine enforcement.  a lot of it is because enforcement costs money (in terms of manpower), and it also forces the ones enforcing it to be the "bad guy"...not something you want to have to do if you're in the hospitality industry.


----------



## Jbarrerajr

Hello thanks for all the insights and information on the State of Hawaii challenge with reopening to tourism.  As a frequent visitor to the state, I do believe they should be cautious with the protecting both there citizens and unique environment.


----------



## gioiamama

As a local Hawaii resident my biggest concern is the second wave and our lack of resources. We have been so fortunate to have had such a decline and to be considering reopening our state. But what happens when the second wave hits? Will there be hospital beds? Will there be ventilators? We are in the middle of nowhere and there isn’t an option to go to another city for healthcare. So I hope that you consider that if you choose to travel. It’s your choice and you must decide what is right for you and your family. I would love to be at WDW this summer or even later this year. But the risk in travel is too great in my eyes.
Just my two cents! I also may secretly be hoping for amazing kamaaina discounts soon!


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## bower007

I canceled our Aulani trip booked for October; just too many unknowns and too much risk.  We'll book in a few years after all of this is over.


----------



## izzy

I cancelled my September Aulani trip. Just too many unknowns. We’ll try again in a few years when this virus either calms down, an effective properly tested vaccine is developed, or better treatment solutions are identified.


----------



## emilymad

We are considering next May but at little nervous to spend the time planning such a big vacation with so many unknowns.


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## OffToDWD

We cancelled our Christmas/New Year Aulani trip.  Considering next May/June...


----------



## McSmooth

What's interesting is that those in Hawaii are very concerned about these visitors that have been continually coming, even with the 14-day quarantine in place.  They believe these people will create a spike in cases and are frustrated that the local police aren't cracking down on them when they break the rules.

However, since the quarantine has been in place roughly 10,000 visitors have arrived (7-8 weeks at avg. 200 per day).  No spike in cases at all.  In fact, as the number of daily visitors continues to increase, the number of new statewide cases has been 4 or fewer since May 1.  There's currently just 9 active cases on Oahu.

So based on that, these lawbreaking 10,000 "diseased" mainlanders really aren't getting anyone sick.


----------



## gioiamama

McSmooth said:


> What's interesting is that those in Hawaii are very concerned about these visitors that have been continually coming, even with the 14-day quarantine in place.  They believe these people will create a spike in cases and are frustrated that the local police aren't cracking down on them when they break the rules.
> 
> However, since the quarantine has been in place roughly 10,000 visitors have arrived (7-8 weeks at avg. 200 per day).  No spike in cases at all.  In fact, as the number of daily visitors continues to increase, the number of new statewide cases has been 4 or fewer since May 1.  There's currently just 9 active cases on Oahu.
> 
> So based on that, these lawbreaking 10,000 "diseased" mainlanders really aren't getting anyone sick.



Your numbers are inaccurate. We are expecting 3.5M visitors for the remainder of the year, vs. our normal 30M. Travel will bring the virus. We have a few 100 ICU beds on Oahu. Is it worth the risk?


----------



## FightingIrishman

Unfortunately we had to cancel Spring Break at Aulani. Trip of a lifetime planned but cannot be rescheduled due to future trips already on the books. Our high school takes a trip to Hawaii every other year, so the kids will see Oahu then. As a family, I doubt we make it to Aulani. Kids grow and the opportunity was lost.


----------



## Memorymakerfor4

We haven't cancelled yet, but I've pretty much left any hope of our late summer trip happening behind. We've already scheduled another vacation to replace it. Honestly, I'm just not sure how I feel about visiting Hawaii anymore and am not sure if we will rebook. I'm not going to force my children to go through that nose swab just for a vacation.


----------



## corgi_monster

McSmooth said:


> What's interesting is that those in Hawaii are very concerned about these visitors that have been continually coming, even with the 14-day quarantine in place.  They believe these people will create a spike in cases and are frustrated that the local police aren't cracking down on them when they break the rules.
> 
> However, since the quarantine has been in place roughly 10,000 visitors have arrived (7-8 weeks at avg. 200 per day).  No spike in cases at all.  In fact, as the number of daily visitors continues to increase, the number of new statewide cases has been 4 or fewer since May 1.  There's currently just 9 active cases on Oahu.
> 
> So based on that, these lawbreaking 10,000 "diseased" mainlanders really aren't getting anyone sick.



It's widely accepted and proven that the majority of covid19 cases were brought to Hawaii by locals returning home from trips and then spreading it to the community and NOT by tourists.  The 14-day quarantine is meant to keep people IN/discourage travel just as much as it's meant to keep people out.


----------



## Memorymakerfor4

*Duplicate post*


----------



## SinCityMMAFan

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/hawaii-governor-extend-traveler-quarantine-013719770.html
Quarantine for arrivals to be extended past June now.  

Looking more and more likely that September will be the very earliest that tourists from the mainland might be able to fly in.  We were originally scheduled to go in September but moved everything until the end of April of next year.


----------



## Noah_t

Well we have to respect their wishes as much as it sucks not being able to vacation on what to my mind is the most beautiful place I have been to.  I suspect though once the unemployment cheques stop this fall they will start taking a few more risks and make a way for tourists to come back.  I myself am from Vancouver and while the lower population of tourists is really nice the fact that I will not be unloading any cruise ships this year is not worth the trade off.  That is a great, clean, high paying job for a lot of us longshoreman.


----------



## kdonnel

Noah_t said:


> I suspect though once the unemployment cheques stop this fall they will start taking a few more risks and make a way for tourists to come back.


The state is officially at 22.3% overall with Kauai and Maui both over 33% for the April numbers.  The May numbers are tracking to be over 30% overall with Kauai and Maui being over 40%.  That does not seem sustainable for long.

There have been multiple reports of residents being harassed when out and about because they are mistaken for tourists breaking the quarantine.  I would not want to be in the first batch of tourists. 

I don't think tourists will be welcomed back by residents despite the devastation to the local economy.


----------



## MickeyD

kdonnel said:


> There have been multiple reports of residents being harassed when out and about because they are mistaken for tourists breaking the quarantine. I would not want to be in the first batch of tourists.
> 
> I don't think tourists will be welcomed back by residents despite the devastation to the local economy.



We are currently scheduled for Kauai in September and have been trying to hold out and see how things shape up, but honestly, after statements like this I fully expect to take my tourist dollars elsewhere. And I am not attacking what you said kdonnel, I have seen many other comments like this. It just bothers me that Hawaii has taken on such a "us vs. them" mentality. However, I can see it to a point given they are secluded on islands in the middle of the ocean. I really don't think Hawaii is the end-all, be-all of places to visit anyway. We have been to all the islands numerous times over the years and have seen a decline in the atmosphere and friendliness. Now whether that is from the influx of tourists, or the locals, i have no idea.


----------



## joelnkelly

You have to be crazy to travel to Hawaii anytime before next year. It’s obvious that the state doesn’t want visitors and they are about to extend the quarantine order for visitors.  Save your points and visit maybe next year when you are welcome back to Hawaii with that Aloha spirit.


----------



## ksromack

I was hoping to reschedule our Aulani/Waikiki May 2020 trip to May 2021 but now I think we will push it off to May 2022.  My big concern is what condition will Hawaii be at that time?  So much of the allure for us is the smaller businesses, the food trucks, etc.  I fear a lot of these treasures will not be able to withstand the storm.


----------



## kdonnel

MickeyD said:


> We are currently scheduled for Kauai in September and have been trying to hold out and see how things shape up, but honestly, after statements like this I fully expect to take my tourist dollars elsewhere. And I am not attacking what you said kdonnel, I have seen many other comments like this. It just bothers me that Hawaii has taken on such a "us vs. them" mentality. However, I can see it to a point given they are secluded on islands in the middle of the ocean. I really don't think Hawaii is the end-all, be-all of places to visit anyway. We have been to all the islands numerous times over the years and have seen a decline in the atmosphere and friendliness. Now whether that is from the influx of tourists, or the locals, i have no idea.


Parts of Hawaii have not been 100% tourist friendly even before this event.  

I know that there are many places in the Caribbean that are just as nice and so much closer to me on the east coast.  I have truly enjoyed all my trips to Hawaii but I think I will stick to the Caribbean or Central America for my exotic beach vacations for a while.


----------



## CateinPhoenix

We just booked for November, everything including flights are fully refundable/changeable.  Couldn't pass up $350 RT from Phoenix.  We can always cancel later.


----------



## Paul1955

kdonnel said:


> The state is officially at 22.3% overall with Kauai and Maui both over 33% for the April numbers.  The May numbers are tracking to be over 30% overall with Kauai and Maui being over 40%.  That does not seem sustainable for long.
> 
> There have been multiple reports of residents being harassed when out and about because they are mistaken for tourists breaking the quarantine.  I would not want to be in the first batch of tourists.
> 
> I don't think tourists will be welcomed back by residents despite the devastation to the local economy.



It is the unfortunate xenophobic behavior toward "mainlanders" and "visitors" portrayed through the media reports throughout Hawaii that is very troubling. I can only hope that the media is not portraying Hawaii accurately in these reports. We were planning on visiting late this summer, but it will be quite sometime before I feel comfortable taking my family to Hawaii.


----------



## Moshi737

Paul1955 said:


> It is the unfortunate xenophobic behavior toward "mainlanders" and "visitors" portrayed through the media reports throughout Hawaii that is very troubling. I can only hope that the media is not portraying Hawaii accurately in these reports. We were planning on visiting late this summer, but it will be quite sometime before I feel comfortable taking my family to Hawaii.


So why would someone still want to visit? Not being argumentative but reading this thread, I don’t understand why tourists with attitudes like this still want to go to Hawaii? What’s the appeal for you?


----------



## thedogatemyhomework

Paul1955 said:


> It is the unfortunate xenophobic behavior toward "mainlanders" and "visitors" portrayed through the media reports throughout Hawaii that is very troubling. I can only hope that the media is not portraying Hawaii accurately in these reports. We were planning on visiting late this summer, but it will be quite sometime before I feel comfortable taking my family to Hawaii.


it both is and isn't true...if you had to give it a single name...xenophobic kinda fits...if you take a bit more time to understand what it actually is for many...it only fits if you absolutely have to have a 1 size fits all term, or for media puproses...click bait.

it is 100% true that you can find some people in hawaii that would like nothing more than for every tourist to leave and never come back (there aren't many...but they do exist...and have been around for a very long time)...some times they have very detailed reasons why...sometimes not.

when you hear about residents being mistaken for tourists...its more about behavior and actions than it is about where someone is from.  many of the things residents blame on tourists...aren't even things tourists do...they just seem like things tourists would do (its kind of a "if you grew up here you would know better"...but in reality...no...many don't know better).  in this regard someone who's lived in hawaii for their entire life could very well be mistaken for a tourist while someone who visits once a year or every other year could be mistaken for a resident.

the current situation with "residents vs. tourists" isn't really accurate as well...it would be more accurate to say its residents wanting to feel safe and not having confidence in their local government to be able to provide it...so some have turned to trying to get tourists to stay away (since repeated failures to enforce policies show little signs of improvement.)

for those thinking that "crushing debt" due to job losses will do much to change the opinions of the majority of hawaii...crushing debt is pretty much normal and very much widespread.  what happens when it becomes too much for people...they move to another state.


----------



## DRussell83

CateinPhoenix said:


> We just booked for November, everything including flights are fully refundable/changeable.  Couldn't pass up $350 RT from Phoenix.  We can always cancel later.


We are going in November as well - Thanksgiving week - re-booked from May.  Trying to stay positive although its hard sometimes reading everything on these boards.  I just keep telling myself that SO much can change in 6 months.


----------



## MickeyD

kdonnel said:


> Parts of Hawaii have not been 100% tourist friendly even before this event.
> 
> I know that there are many places in the Caribbean that are just as nice and so much closer to me on the east coast. I have truly enjoyed all my trips to Hawaii but I think I will stick to the Caribbean or Central America for my exotic beach vacations for a while



We have noticed a lot more of the "Sovereign State of Hawaii" flags flying when we went there the last few times. We felt very uncomfortable in many parts of Oahu and I was perplexed given it is a US STATE! 
I am with you that the Caribbean is far prettier and some of the beaches in Florida are nicer than beaches in HI. I, too, have enjoyed our trips to Hawaii, but I think we are going to start going mainly to Caribbean and Florida areas. Flying to the east coast for us is just as long as flying to Hawaii, so it doesn't matter to us. Plus the Caribbean and Florida tend to be less expensive as far as food and entertainment goes.


----------



## Paul1955

Moshi737 said:


> So why would someone still want to visit? Not being argumentative but reading this thread, I don’t understand why tourists with attitudes like this still want to go to Hawaii? What’s the appeal for you?


Personally, I think Hawaii's beautiful landscape and tropical weather is a big draw for many visitors.  I love to visit different parts of the world that look different from where I live (Colorado), but at the same time I don't want to feel like I am intruding when I am visiting.


----------



## Paul1955

thedogatemyhomework said:


> it both is and isn't true...if you had to give it a single name...xenophobic kinda fits...if you take a bit more time to understand what it actually is for many...it only fits if you absolutely have to have a 1 size fits all term, or for media puproses...click bait.
> 
> it is 100% true that you can find some people in hawaii that would like nothing more than for every tourist to leave and never come back (there aren't many...but they do exist...and have been around for a very long time)...some times they have very detailed reasons why...sometimes not.
> 
> when you hear about residents being mistaken for tourists...its more about behavior and actions than it is about where someone is from.  many of the things residents blame on tourists...aren't even things tourists do...they just seem like things tourists would do (its kind of a "if you grew up here you would know better"...but in reality...no...many don't know better).  in this regard someone who's lived in hawaii for their entire life could very well be mistaken for a tourist while someone who visits once a year or every other year could be mistaken for a resident.
> 
> the current situation with "residents vs. tourists" isn't really accurate as well...it would be more accurate to say its residents wanting to feel safe and not having confidence in their local government to be able to provide it...so some have turned to trying to get tourists to stay away (since repeated failures to enforce policies show little signs of improvement.)
> 
> for those thinking that "crushing debt" due to job losses will do much to change the opinions of the majority of hawaii...crushing debt is pretty much normal and very much widespread.  what happens when it becomes too much for people...they move to another state.


Thanks for the clarifications.  I suspect we are seeing the media amplifying a situation that may not be as prevalent throughout Hawaii as the media is currently portraying. I do think that when the state reopens to visitors that any effort by state and local communities that voices a welcoming tone to encourage vistors to return (from wherever they come from) will go a long way to helping rebuild the tourism industry in the state.


----------



## corgi_monster

Paul1955 said:


> It is the unfortunate xenophobic behavior toward "mainlanders" and "visitors" portrayed through the media reports throughout Hawaii that is very troubling. I can only hope that the media is not portraying Hawaii accurately in these reports. We were planning on visiting late this summer, but it will be quite sometime before I feel comfortable taking my family to Hawaii.



The media has been sensationalizing the anti-tourist sentiment.  The vitriol is focused on the small handful of visitors who are knowingly breaking the 14 day quarantine.  

However, you're 100% correct about the "unfortunate xenophobic behavior" and it's disgusting.  This is an exert  from a Civil Beat article (https://www.civilbeat.org/2020/05/tensions-grow-over-how-and-when-to-reopen-tourism/)  that was published this morning:  

One idea repeatedly discussed was that Japanese travelers would simply be better than those from the U.S. continent: they would spend more and follow the rules, according to the senators.

“U.S. citizens tend to not want to follow these rules,” said Sen. Donna Mercado Kim.

Keohokalole added that high-spending Japanese tourists are preferable to “wannabe Instagram influencers from the West Coast who are staying in illegal vacation rentals and blatantly violating the quarantine.”



Donna Kim is a serious, long-time power player and one of the most influential state-level politicians.  For her to say something like that . . . SMH!


----------



## Karebear

corgi_monster said:


> The media has been sensationalizing the anti-tourist sentiment.  The vitriol is focused on the small handful of visitors who are knowingly breaking the 14 day quarantine.
> 
> However, you're 100% correct about the "unfortunate xenophobic behavior" and it's disgusting.  This is an exert  from a Civil Beat article (https://www.civilbeat.org/2020/05/tensions-grow-over-how-and-when-to-reopen-tourism/)  that was published this morning:
> 
> One idea repeatedly discussed was that Japanese travelers would simply be better than those from the U.S. continent: they would spend more and follow the rules, according to the senators.
> 
> “U.S. citizens tend to not want to follow these rules,” said Sen. Donna Mercado Kim.
> 
> Keohokalole added that high-spending Japanese tourists are preferable to “wannabe Instagram influencers from the West Coast who are staying in illegal vacation rentals and blatantly violating the quarantine.”
> 
> 
> 
> Donna Kim is a serious, long-time power player and one of the most influential state-level politicians.  For her to say something like that . . . SMH!




What really bothers me is when people stereotype an entire section of people.  I live in CA and I am not a "wannabe instagram influencer".  My husband and I love to travel and enjoy taking our children places.  We always teach them to be respectful and thoughtful travelers.  I have lived in Europe and seen anti tourist sentiment there to people from the United States as well as from other countries.  It always saddens me.  Sure there are some "ugly tourists" from all countries, but most tourists generally want to have great travel experiences while being respectful at the same time.


----------



## Moshi737

Karebear said:


> What really bothers me is when people stereotype an entire section of people.  I live in CA and I am not a "wannabe instagram influencer".  My husband and I love to travel and enjoy taking our children places.  We always teach them to be respectful and thoughtful travelers.  I have lived in Europe and seen anti tourist sentiment there to people from the United States as well as from other countries.  It always saddens me.  Sure there are some "ugly tourists" from all countries, but most tourists generally want to have great travel experiences while being respectful at the same time.


Yes, as travelers we all need to do our part to respect the places we visit. Some bad apples really ruined the bunch for a term “ugly tourist” to even exist. No one wants to be stereotyped in that manner. As I’m sure most people in Hawaii would not want to be stereotyped as Xenophobic. Hope we can all be more considerate to one another, so we all feel welcomed to travel. It will take all of us, travelers and locals alike.


----------



## thedogatemyhomework

when watching people saying these things on tv...most of the local government officials (elected or otherwise) have a very odd sense of what kind of plans they will openly consider.  its also important to realize that if you're watching a short clip (under 2 minutes)...how much was edited, or had to be phrased in a way that was quick as opposed to accurate.

it is possible that at least some of them are saying these things because they truly do not understand what it is that they're saying, and others might be saying these things because they may now be on plan "zzzzzzzzzzzzzz" as plan "a" through "zzzzzzzzzzzzzy" failed because they weren't legal (ankle monitors...) or couldn't be enforced (pretty much everything else).

with some of the crazy plans they felt comfortable enough with talking about to the media...makes you wonder...how crazy were the ideas that they didn't share...

the one thing that does seem to be a common denominator in everything is that people are all coming up with crazier and crazier ideas as more and more time passes without any kind of target date being set by the governor.  hotels can't properly plan and set re-open dates, legislature might have to start court proceedings just to be kept in the loop, mayors have to make plans a little at a time since every part needs the governors approval...and many plans require lots of pieces to work...so if 1 piece is rejected they may have to re-think everything.


----------



## kverdon

Yeah our trip to Maui for July is 99.5% not going to happen. I have found it interesting to compare the mindset in Hawaii to Edgar Allen Poe’s “Masque of the Red Death”.


----------



## marx

When I saw an AKV Standard room open for Xmas/New Years two weeks ago, I quickly cancelled my Aulani August reservation for that.  Hawaii can wait until 2021 for us.  In late April, I really thought we would be going to Hawaii this Summer, but as time passed it seemed less likely that the state would open up.


----------



## OKW Lover

In the mean time, from pretty much the other end of the country:  https://www.npr.org/sections/corona...ek-quarantine-rule-discriminates-against-tour


----------



## bobbiwoz

We are hoping to go to Kauai and Oahu in March.  Not if we have to self quarantine for 14 days.

We have Kauai booked, did that in January before we ever heard of coronavirus!  We can’t book Aulani until August.  I really hope we can go!!


----------



## kverdon

The problem I have with most of the ideas thrown out there by the Hawaiian Gov’t for conditional tourism just don’t seem practicable or in some cases even legal. According to The NY Times, opening tourism to the Japanese and not to the mainland USA may run them afoul of the FTC. As to getting tested before you go, how are they going to verify that and still adhere to HIPAA regulations? How would someone provide proof of testing? A Lab report? Any sort of paper documentation they will have forged copies out there within a day of release. As much as they’d like to distance themselves from the other 49 states they are still part of the USA and bound to those laws.


----------



## cgattis

bobbiwoz said:


> We are hoping to go to Kauai and Oahu in March.  Not if we have to self quarantine for 14 days.
> 
> We have Kauai booked, did that in January before we ever heard of coronavirus!  We can’t book Aulani until August.  I really hope we can go!!


Give us a thread with your Kauai plans!! I’m planning Maui and Kauai in 2022 and love to hear others’ ideas!


----------



## thedogatemyhomework

kverdon said:


> The problem I have with most of the ideas thrown out there by the Hawaiian Gov’t for conditional tourism just don’t seem practicable or in some cases even legal. According to The NY Times, opening tourism to the Japanese and not to the mainland USA may run them afoul of the FTC. As to getting tested before you go, how are they going to verify that and still adhere to HIPAA regulations? How would someone provide proof of testing? A Lab report? Any sort of paper documentation they will have forged copies out there within a day of release. As much as they’d like to distance themselves from the other 49 states they are still part of the USA and bound to those laws.


most of whats been said to the media by the state and city governments has largely just been "throw enough darts at a wall and maybe one sticks"...aka "we don't really know what to do".  it is possible they may be throwing out all of these ideas to see if any of them don't get noticeable backlash before they look into them further...could also be a throw out a crazy idea...and let others figure out if its legal or not,,,aka "make the fact checkers become free labor".

for HIPAA regs...it is quite possible that the reason disney, universal, and others are going with thermal scanners is so that they comply with it (having a temp above x does not necessarily reveal a specific medical condition and in some cases doesn't mean there is any medical condition at all).  after this is all over HIPAA seems like one of many laws that get tweaked as part of a "lessons learned" sort of thing.


----------



## stagmite

thedogatemyhomework said:


> most of whats been said to the media by the state and city governments has largely just been "throw enough darts at a wall and maybe one sticks"...aka "we don't really know what to do".  it is possible they may be throwing out all of these ideas to see if any of them don't get noticeable backlash before they look into them further...could also be a throw out a crazy idea...and let others figure out if its legal or not,,,aka "make the fact checkers become free labor".
> 
> for HIPAA regs...it is quite possible that the reason disney, universal, and others are going with thermal scanners is so that they comply with it (having a temp above x does not necessarily reveal a specific medical condition and in some cases doesn't mean there is any medical condition at all).  after this is all over HIPAA seems like one of many laws that get tweaked as part of a "lessons learned" sort of thing.



It's hard for me to understand why they aren't working on realistic plans that can both save lives while at the same time not destroy people's lives. We have enough data now to understand how this spreads and who is most vulnerable to the virus. However no matter how much data is collected it never seems to be enough as they continue to operate in a constant state of fear and therefore prefer to rely on hope to be the answer to save Hawaii. Hope that a cure is going to be produced in time or hope that the federal government will bail Hawaii out from the deep economic hole they are continuing to dig. At some point reality will sink in, but will it be too late to save people's livelihood? There seems to be no balance between the two philosophical schools of thoughts which is to save all lives at all cost and personal freedom to allow people to choose how they want to live their lives.


----------



## thedogatemyhomework

there are several factors that make it actually possible to "safely" open to a country like japan, or south korea prior to any other state in the US.

one is the availability of tests that are reliable...if the outbreak isn't well under control tests aren't going to be widely available in the numbers needed to make a "test before you fly" strategy possible.

another are the laws that are related to what can/can't be done (there are sooooo many more things you can't do or require of fellow US states/citizens than citizens of other countries.)  HIPAA being one of the bigger ones...theres also examples of quarantines being struck down in their entirety because they allowed some but not all...or technicalities regarding timing or duration.  it is possible that unless the quarantine goes "too far"...it can't be implemented at all from a legal stand point...probably another set of laws that will need to be tweaked after this is all over.

unfortunately it does not seem like there truly is enough data on how it spreads yet (which seems very odd for a respiratory disease).  there are things like can you get it a 2nd time (or for those who seem like they do...did they ever get over the 1st one?).  if you have antibodies even if it does protect you...can you still spread the virus...there's things that haven't been talked about much until recently...such as bathrooms and toilets.  the virus is detectable in the sewer systems...so it must be present to some extent in bowels and/or bladders (this is where the virus can supposedly hide in bats...so it is possible)....so its not just coughs...farts might be capable of spreading it (with n95 masks...if you can smell things...its not working...so odds are pants/underwear not enough to protect others)...and its waaaaaaaay easier to tell how far those can spread/linger.

as far as who it affects...thats changed so much since the beginning...and will probably continue to change for a while as understanding of the virus continues to evolve...at first the very young were thought to be virtually immune...yet charts showing which age group has the most infections show that its overwhelmingly the young getting infected...there have been cases where seemingly healthier younger people don't make it...while their older parents with conditions thought to make you more likely to not make it...get through mostly just fine.  there have been 100+ year olds making it through, and now some under 21 getting hit with those weird rashes.

some of it is fear...memorial day weekend crowds showed what happens when popular locations re-open...and I'd anticipate seeing some rather concerning levels of crowds at universal and the other major theme parks in florida when they re-open...not necessarily inside, but outside as some try to get in that may not have heard anything other than "they're open now"...or not understood what the new procedures are...or simply don't care.  hopefully it all goes fine...

some comes down to expectations, and mentality...shanghai disney re-opened first (has been open for a while now) and implemented what is likely to be very similar policies to how disneyworld re-opens...yet there were no massive outcries and backlash over date specific tickets...cancelled fast passes and dining reservations...

of course all of these things are very broad generalizations, and don't apply to everyone from particular countries, states, etc.  and it would of course be best to be able to let in only those capable of behaving responsibly (as enforcing policies is also something hawaii hasn't been very good at from the start of the pandemic)...but there is no way to tell who will/won't do so...even if there were...it still probably wouldn't be legal to do to other US states,


----------



## kverdon

...such as bathrooms and toilets. the virus is detectable in the sewer systems...so it must be present to some extent in bowels and/or bladders..

I don’t quite follow that connection. There  are plenty of ways the virus can enter the sewer system by means of people washing faces, hands and flushing miriad contaminated tissues down the toilet. The presence in the stool can be attributed to nasal drainage down the esophagus into the digestive tract where it passes through. Most evidence of viral presence in the stool is of viral DNA, not active virus. The presence of active virus in the stool is more postulated then proven right now. Also to keep in mind is that the water in the toilets and sinks is chlorinated. Lastly a fart carrying the virus is a bit far fetched the virons travel via water droplets and not via a gas.


----------



## Hiitsme

OKW Lover said:


> In the mean time, from pretty much the other end of the country:  https://www.npr.org/sections/corona...ek-quarantine-rule-discriminates-against-tour


----------



## thedogatemyhomework

kverdon said:


> ...such as bathrooms and toilets. the virus is detectable in the sewer systems...so it must be present to some extent in bowels and/or bladders..
> 
> I don’t quite follow that connection. There  are plenty of ways the virus can enter the sewer system by means of people washing faces, hands and flushing miriad contaminated tissues down the toilet. The presence in the stool can be attributed to nasal drainage down the esophagus into the digestive tract where it passes through. Most evidence of viral presence in the stool is of viral DNA, not active virus. The presence of active virus in the stool is more postulated then proven right now. Also to keep in mind is that the water in the toilets and sinks is chlorinated. Lastly a fart carrying the virus is a bit far fetched the virons travel via water droplets and not via a gas.


water in hawaii (and possibly elsewhere in the US as well isn’t chlorinated)

the intestines supposedly have the same cell receptors that the virus uses as the heart and lungs...as to how it gets there...whether through the stomach acid, or through the blood stream somehow...maybe both?

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/13/health/wellness-covid-attacks-organs-kidney/index.html
still lots of things being found.  I think youtube might still have the mythbusters video about how far fecal matter can spread from a toilet flush...and as many have personal experience with...not all farts are “dry”.


----------



## kverdon

The clinical scientist in me isn't buying it yet.  I'd like to see some more proof.  

I'll take your fart word of warning to heart however and do my best to stay are least 6 feet from any naked rear ends


----------



## stagmite

We'll see if the Justice Department prevails over the Maine case. I would imagine that if they do then Hawaii is next on the Justice Department's radar.


----------



## kdonnel

thedogatemyhomework said:


> water in hawaii (and possibly elsewhere in the US as well isn’t chlorinated)


I really doubt any municipal water source is NOT chlorinated.

Oahu Board of Water Supply
https://www.boardofwatersupply.com/water-quality/frequently-asked-questions


> Yes, all of the water pumped into the BWS water distribution system is chlorinated.  Concentrations ranging from 0.25 to 0.5 milligrams per liter (ppm) of chlorine can be found throughout the water system.  Since excessive amounts of chlorine can affect the taste and odor of drinking water, the BWS adds only what is needed to keep disease-causing bacteria from contaminating our water supply.
> 
> If you experience a strong chlorine smell or taste in your water, contact the BWS Microbiological Laboratory at (808) 748-5850.


----------



## Noah_t

kdonnel said:


> I really doubt any municipal water source is NOT chlorinated.
> 
> Oahu Board of Water Supply
> https://www.boardofwatersupply.com/water-quality/frequently-asked-questions


Nice work.  Wish I would of seen this before I read the entire previoius post.  lol


----------



## corgi_monster

stagmite said:


> It's hard for me to understand why they aren't working on realistic plans that can both save lives while at the same time not destroy people's lives. We have enough data now to understand how this spreads and who is most vulnerable to the virus. However no matter how much data is collected it never seems to be enough as they continue to operate in a constant state of fear and therefore prefer to rely on hope to be the answer to save Hawaii.



You really hit the nail on the head. 

Every reasonable plan that has been presented (rapid testing, antibody tests, etc.) has been ripped to shreds because people are living in fear.  But SOMETHING is better than NOTHING!  Even if the rapid test has a 20% failure rate, it's better than mass starvation and homelessness . . . which is what will happen when government aid runs out. 



stagmite said:


> There seems to be no balance between the two philosophical schools of thoughts which is to save all lives at all cost and personal freedom to allow people to choose how they want to live their lives.



The two school of thought are not balanced.  The majority of people feel defeating coronavirus is more important than saving the economy:  https://www.civilbeat.org/2020/05/civil-beat-hnn-poll-stop-virus-even-if-economy-crumbles/ 

Primary mail-in voting (and all voting in Hawaii is via mail)  starts next month and no politician wants to be known as the person who spearheaded the effort to open tourism.  I've said it before and I'll say it again - there is no public or political will to open up Hawaii to tourism.  Also, Hawaii received $5B in federal aid in the past three months.  Tourism used to bring in $1.5B/month.   If another federal aid package is approved there will be even less incentive to open up tourism.


----------



## corgi_monster

stagmite said:


> We'll see if the Justice Department prevails over the Maine case. I would imagine that if they do then Hawaii is next on the Justice Department's radar.



Maine requires tourists but not residents to self-quarantine.  Hawaii requires both tourists and residents to self-quarantine.  The argument of discrimination wouldn't apply in Hawaii.


----------



## stagmite

corgi_monster said:


> Maine requires tourists but not residents to self-quarantine.  Hawaii requires both tourists and residents to self-quarantine.  The argument of discrimination wouldn't apply in Hawaii.



They are lifting the quarantine requirement for inter island travel on June 16th and are working on plans for the people of New Zealand, Australia, Japan and South Korea to travel without quarantine restrictions. Hawaii was given US tax payer money of $5 billion for the whopping grand total of 652 coronavirus cases, and yet they are talking about opening up their island to foreigners before their own fellow Americans??? They are acting as if they are their own sovereign nation trying to make deals with other countries. I'm sorry, but this does not sit right with me at all.


----------



## emilymad

stagmite said:


> They are lifting the quarantine requirement for inter island travel on June 16th and are working on plans for the people of New Zealand, Australia, Japan and South Korea to travel without quarantine restrictions. Hawaii was given US tax payer money of $5 billion for the whopping grand total of 652 coronavirus cases, and yet they are talking about opening up their island to foreigners before their own fellow Americans??? They are acting as if they are their own sovereign nation trying to make deals with other countries. I'm sorry, but this does not sit right with me at all.



So then aren't we back to discrimination like the Maine case?


----------



## AlohaNow

stagmite said:


> Hawaii was given US tax payer money of $5 billion for the whopping grand total of 652 coronavirus cases



Source please?


----------



## gioiamama

AlohaNow said:


> Source please?



This money was from the CARES Act. This statement is misleading.


----------



## Noah_t

stagmite said:


> They are lifting the quarantine requirement for inter island travel on June 16th and are working on plans for the people of New Zealand, Australia, Japan and South Korea to travel without quarantine restrictions. Hawaii was given US tax payer money of $5 billion for the whopping grand total of 652 coronavirus cases, and yet they are talking about opening up their island to foreigners before their own fellow Americans??? They are acting as if they are their own sovereign nation trying to make deals with other countries. I'm sorry, but this does not sit right with me at all.


Yes if here in Canada if provinces started opening up to other countries before allowing other Canadians from outside the province I would be pissed too.


----------



## VandVsmama

stagmite said:


> They are lifting the quarantine requirement for inter island travel on June 16th and are working on plans for the people of New Zealand, Australia, Japan and South Korea to travel without quarantine restrictions. Hawaii was given US tax payer money of $5 billion for the whopping grand total of 652 coronavirus cases, and yet they are talking about opening up their island to foreigners before their own fellow Americans??? They are acting as if they are their own sovereign nation trying to make deals with other countries. I'm sorry, but this does not sit right with me at all.



I agree.  And right now, I'm really glad that I don't own DVC at Aulani. We were supposed to vacation in Maui for a week this summer but rescheduled it to spring break in March.  And right after doing that, we learned of the Hawaii governor's plans to make all visitors get a COVID-19 test at home a few days before arrival, along with you producing proof that you got the test and that it's negative...otherwise, you get to do Quarantini Time and not leave your hotel room or condo the entire time.

DH said, "I'd love to go to Hawaii, but if they're going to require that, it's not worth it. I don't want to go that bad. I'm not interested in being treated like a criminal when tourists from other countries get a free pass."

In my opinion, it's all about the money.  They want tourists who will spend a lot of money in Hawaii while also calmly and quietly do as they're told and not complain.

The state of Hawaii is rapidly headed for economic disaster.  In the meantime, the locals completely panic over news of ONE additional case.  Good grief.


----------



## kverdon

I think that the Gov of Hawaii is getting an idea that opening up Pan Pacific Travel only to only foreign countries might become an issue.  If the tried that, I feel he could run afoul of Washington and those funds they desparately need might just get frozen.   Hawaii desparately needs Federal Loans because their state unemployment is about to run out and they need the federal loans to cover the unemployment until after their economy restarts (which will not be until after tourism returns). He wants to use the Cares Act money to pay off half of the money they are going to need to borrow to cover unemployment. Otherwise, he feels that they will have to up to buisness tax to cover it and it would take about 10yrs to pay it off and that would really be a heavy burden on buisnesses.  It was interresting that in his press conference yesterday he floated the idea that he might include some US states like Alaska and Montana in the quarantine exception as they have very low covid rates.


----------



## gioiamama

kverdon said:


> I think that the Gov of Hawaii is getting an idea that opening up Pan Pacific Travel only to only foreign countries might become an issue.  If the tried that, I feel he could run afoul of Washington and those funds they desparately need might just get frozen.   Hawaii desparately needs Federal Loans because their state unemployment is about to run out and they need the federal loans to cover the unemployment until after their economy restarts (which will not be until after tourism returns). He wants to use the Cares Act money to pay off half of the money they are going to need to borrow to cover unemployment. Otherwise, he feels that they will have to up to buisness tax to cover it and it would take about 10yrs to pay it off and that would really be a heavy burden on buisnesses.  It was interresting that in his press conference yesterday he floated the idea that he might include some US states like Alaska and Montana in the quarantine exception as they have very low covid rates.



Being cautious regarding COVID is a good thing. Do you want to be stuck on an island with limited resources to ICU beds and ventilators!?


----------



## Sepo

Can I take a trip to Japan, and then to Hawaii on the way home and be exempt?

Not really kidding, actually. : )


----------



## kverdon

gioiamama said:


> Being cautious regarding COVID is a good thing. Do you want to be stuck on an island with limited resources to ICU beds and ventilators!?


That was not my point, my point is that there are ways of being cautious that may violated existing laws and policy that could pontentially have other ramifications. You may feelike you are being cautious driving 35 MPH on a open freeway in good weather but you can still get a ticket for it.d

Interresting thought, Is openning travel to people from Montana and Alaska and not say, Washington, California or Oregon even possible?  If you flew through and stopped at one of those states wouldn't you have to Quarantine? This could actually be a clever ploy, open tourism to all states except those that offer a direct flight to Hawaii and then in that tourists travelling from those states to Hawaii that pass thourgh a non-cleared state airport will have quarantine.  Bingo!  You give the illustion of opening tourism to the mainland while at the same time making it impossible.


----------



## stagmite

AlohaNow said:


> Source please?



https://www.staradvertiser.com/2020...unce-lifting-of-interisland-quarantine-today/
_“This is an important step to reopening our kama’aina economy,” Ige said at his daily COVID-19 briefing, adding that he would announce a target date next week on when trans-Pacific travel can resume. “We want to be mindful of the notion that other communities have reopened their economies too quickly and have seen second spikes and increasing outbreaks.”

Interisland travelers, however, will be required to undergo health screenings and temperature scans at local airports and complete additional paperwork on travel history, residence, and where they will be staying on island to make sure that “no one has traveled to out of state and visited any of the other communities where the virus has actively been circulated,” he said on the Honolulu Star-Advertiser’s COVID-19 Care Conversation. The 14-day mandatory quarantine remains for all mainland and international visitors.

*On reopening trans-Pacific travel*, Ige said authorities will focus on communities with low virus incidence, including *New Zealand and Australia* “as first candidates that we would be interested in,” and “obviously from an economic perspective, *Japan and South Korea*.”_


----------



## heaven2dc

stagmite said:


> https://www.staradvertiser.com/2020...unce-lifting-of-interisland-quarantine-today/
> _“This is an important step to reopening our kama’aina economy,” Ige said at his daily COVID-19 briefing, adding that he would announce a target date next week on when trans-Pacific travel can resume. “We want to be mindful of the notion that other communities have reopened their economies too quickly and have seen second spikes and increasing outbreaks.”
> 
> Interisland travelers, however, will be required to undergo health screenings and temperature scans at local airports and complete additional paperwork on travel history, residence, and where they will be staying on island to make sure that “no one has traveled to out of state and visited any of the other communities where the virus has actively been circulated,” he said on the Honolulu Star-Advertiser’s COVID-19 Care Conversation. The 14-day mandatory quarantine remains for all mainland and international visitors.
> 
> *On reopening trans-Pacific travel*, Ige said authorities will focus on communities with low virus incidence, including *New Zealand and Australia* “as first candidates that we would be interested in,” and “obviously from an economic perspective, *Japan and South Korea*.”_



Can you please post the source for your comment?  Thank you


----------



## jkips

stagmite said:


> They are lifting the quarantine requirement for inter island travel on June 16th and are working on plans for the people of New Zealand, Australia, Japan and South Korea to travel without quarantine restrictions. Hawaii was given US tax payer money of $5 billion for the whopping grand total of 652 coronavirus cases, and yet they are talking about opening up their island to foreigners before their own fellow Americans??? They are acting as if they are their own sovereign nation trying to make deals with other countries. I'm sorry, but this does not sit right with me at all.



Where is this info coming from?


----------



## stagmite

gioiamama said:


> This money was from the CARES Act. This statement is misleading.



Nope I meant what I said. CARES act will have to be paid back by every tax payer so it counts. That money was meant to help people through these rough times, not for the state to milk it for all it's worth before it finally runs out and then decide to do something about their economy.


----------



## kverdon

heaven2dc said:


> Can you please post the source for your comment?  Thank you


The comment about possibly including low covid case states like Alaska or Montana from the mandatory quarantine came from either his press conference about interstate travel or an earlier conference that I also listened to.  He made the comment that they may allow low covid case states also to bypass the quarantine like Alaska and Montana in context with him taking about Japan, Australia, New Zealand and S. Korea.  He qualified that statement with the comment saying that he granted that those were not major markets of Hawaiian tourism but that unfortunately major mainland markets like California were exibiting "concerning" spikes in covid cases.

The comment about using Cares funds to cover half the loans needed to continue to fund unemployment came from one of the same conferences.  He was asked if there was a concern about Hawaii running out of unemployment money.  His response was what I outlined about with the added dig that he was displeased the legislature had tied up the Cares funds in the State's "Rainy Day Fund" that requires a legislative vote to allocate funds from.


----------



## stagmite

jkips said:


> Where is this info coming from?


 Please see post #129


----------



## stagmite

kverdon said:


> I think that the Gov of Hawaii is getting an idea that opening up Pan Pacific Travel only to only foreign countries might become an issue.  If the tried that, I feel he could run afoul of Washington and those funds they desparately need might just get frozen.   Hawaii desparately needs Federal Loans because their state unemployment is about to run out and they need the federal loans to cover the unemployment until after their economy restarts (which will not be until after tourism returns). He wants to use the Cares Act money to pay off half of the money they are going to need to borrow to cover unemployment. Otherwise, he feels that they will have to up to buisness tax to cover it and it would take about 10yrs to pay it off and that would really be a heavy burden on buisnesses.  It was interresting that in his press conference yesterday he floated the idea that he might include some US states like *Alaska and Montana* in the quarantine exception as they have very low covid rates.



Alaska and Montana do not even have direct flights to Hawaii. His ideas make no sense.


----------



## kverdon

stagmite said:


> Alaska and Montana do not even have direct flights to Hawaii. His ideas make no sense.


or maybe it does...


----------



## VandVsmama

stagmite said:


> Alaska and Montana do not even have direct flights to Hawaii. His ideas make no sense.



I agree.  I think that the Hawaii governor is using the MSU method...he's Making Stuff Up as he goes along.  According to 2019 statistics here, there were about twice as many visitors to Hawaii from the western US (4.6M) compared to eastern US (2.2M), with Japan making up 1.5M visitors and Canada about 0.5M.

Alaska has a total population of about 731,000 people as of 2019.
Montana?  1.019 million.

I'm sorry, but Alaska and Montana tourists to Hawaii aren't going to dig Hawaii out of its hole.  

This website shows the breakdown for 2019 and how many visitors from each US state went to Hawaii.  In ALL of 2019, Alaska visitors to Hawaii made up 2.56% of the total for the pacific region states.  And Montana?  0.88% of mountain region states.  

Hawaii needs to open up interstate travel and release quarantine restrictions for Pacific region and mountain region states because those 2 regions comprise 67.6% of total US visitors to Hawaii in 2019.  Alaska and Montana aren't going to save them.  

Economists are already predicting a large exodus of residents out of the state to the mainland as people look for work.  Click here for an article in today's newspaper on the subject.  Yet at the same time, the same Honolulu newspaper publishes articles all the time making it sound like the world is coming to an end because ONE additional case was reported.  ONE person out of 1.416 million people.  Somehow in Hawaii, the goal went from "flatten the curve" to "prevent ANYONE from getting it at all."  Then you throw in the emotional "YOU'RE GOING TO KILL GRANDMA!" argument, and then that pretty much shuts down all discussion on the matter.  

It's nuts.


----------



## Noah_t

Last time i checked there was a direct flight from Alaska.  Maybe post covid though its gone?


----------



## kverdon

I wasn't exactly kidding.  Yes, those are economic facts.  One fact that is not in there is that though Japanese and South Korean tourists, on the average, spend way more than the average US tourist.  Hense it makes sense economically to open up tourism to those 2 countries so you can get more $$ per tourist and those countries have Covid pretty will under control. As foreign nations, Hawaii can impose terms and limitations that they cannot do as easy with mainalnd US tourists. Were Hawaii a soverign nation this would be a no brainer.

However, they are not.  Since they are part of the United States, openning tourism to foreign countries and not to their fellow country men is not going to sit well with a number of people and as I conjectured, could open them up to Federal Scrutiny.  The last thing they want is a Federal judge striking down the whole quarantine completely. The solution could be to give the illusion of opening Hawaii up to select mainland states while at the same time limitting them from actually travelling to Hawaii by not allowing any states with direct flights.  It gets tourism going with their favored tourists, keeps the mainland cut off and at least buys them time until someone starts questioning why mainlanders can't actually get to Hawaii.  They appear to be playing for time.  They need tourist money desparately but don't want to get flooded with tourists until the pandemic on the mainland is better under control. Even if there is a direct flight from Hawaii, the strick restrictions imposed upon people travelling there combined with the low rate of covid infection Hawaii works in their favor.


----------



## corgi_monster

AlohaNow said:


> Source please?



https://www.civilbeat.org/2020/06/i...ral-aid-will-soon-run-out-for-many-in-hawaii/


Noah_t said:


> Last time i checked there was a direct flight from Alaska.  Maybe post covid though its gone?



Yes, there were direct flights on Alaska Airlines but I don’t think that route is currently in service.  



Regarding the Pacific travel bubble, lawmakers aren’t talking about creating a free-for-all environment. The plan is to make it easy for some international visitors to receive exemptions from the 14 day quarantine for people willing to provide some sort of medical clearance.  I could be wrong but I don’t think HIPAA/privacy laws would apply to international travelers.


----------



## stagmite

corgi_monster said:


> https://www.civilbeat.org/2020/06/i...ral-aid-will-soon-run-out-for-many-in-hawaii/
> 
> Yes, there were direct flights on Alaska Airlines but I don’t think that route is currently in service.
> 
> 
> 
> Regarding the Pacific travel bubble, lawmakers aren’t talking about creating a free-for-all environment. The plan is to make it easy for some international visitors to receive exemptions from the 14 day quarantine for people willing to provide some sort of medical clearance.  I could be wrong but I don’t think HIPAA/privacy laws would apply to international travelers.



Doesn't matter what stipulations they put in place. They are not a sovereign nation and cannot go around making pacts and deals with other nations. I would bet that if they allow inter island travel and foreigners to visit the Hawaiian islands without quarantine then their quarantine for main landers will be challenged in court. It would have to be fair and equal treatment for people out of state as people in state, and especially when compared to foreigners.


----------



## Moshi737

stagmite said:


> Doesn't matter what stipulations they put in place. They are not a sovereign nation and cannot go around making pacts and deals with other nations. I would bet that if they allow inter island travel and foreigners to visit the Hawaiian islands without quarantine then their quarantine for main landers will be challenged in court. It would have to be fair and equal treatment for people out of state as people in state, and especially when compared to foreigners.


Curious, what would be unfair with movement for residents within the state? In regards to people from out of state. (Not speaking on visitors of foreign countries as that is a separate matter). What would be the basis of a challenge in court?


----------



## stagmite

Moshi737 said:


> Curious, what would be unfair with movement for residents within the state? In regards to people from out of state. (Not speaking on visitors of foreign countries as that is a separate matter). What would be the basis of a challenge in court?



For the same reason as this https://www.npr.org/sections/corona...ek-quarantine-rule-discriminates-against-tour

I'm more up in arms though about giving more rights to foreigners then their fellow Americans. My point is that if they were to allow both to by pass 14 day quarantines, then I can't see how they can defend their stance on mandatory 14 day quarantines for incoming flights from the main land.


----------



## Moshi737

So the article is about out of state visitors, not in state residents moving within their state. So again I ask, what would be the challenge in court? 
The foreign visitors subject is a separate matter that I don’t have an interest in. Im more curious in how residents moving about in their own state would be unfair to people from out of state. 
Not trying to be argumentative. This whole thread has been a good discussion. An interesting look at how people view Hawaii.


----------



## VandVsmama

stagmite said:


> Doesn't matter what stipulations they put in place. They are not a sovereign nation and cannot go around making pacts and deals with other nations. I would bet that if they allow inter island travel and foreigners to visit the Hawaiian islands without quarantine then their quarantine for main landers will be challenged in court. It would have to be fair and equal treatment for people out of state as people in state, and especially when compared to foreigners.



It'll end up getting sorted out in the federal court system.  A lawyer I know said they thought such restrictions would likely be deemed unconstitutional.


----------



## stagmite

Moshi737 said:


> So the article is about out of state visitors, not in state residents moving within their state. So again I ask, what would be the challenge in court?
> The foreign visitors subject is a separate matter that I don’t have an interest in. Im more curious in how residents moving about in their own state would be unfair to people from out of state.
> Not trying to be argumentative. This whole thread has been a good discussion. An interesting look at how people view Hawaii.



Per the argument the quarantine is in effect for tourist but not for essential travel business people who are exempt. Thus they are discriminating against tourist as the rule is not applied equally to everyone. Hawaii has exemption for those traveling from the main land (like the military), travel is allowed by air and they are opening their island to foreigners so now it becomes questionable that the governor can continue to violate an American's rights for equal and fair treatment when in another state.


----------



## Moshi737

stagmite said:


> Per the argument the quarantine is in effect for tourist but not for essential travel business people who are exempt. Thus they are discriminating against tourist as the rule is not applied equally to everyone. Hawaii has exemption for those traveling from the main land (like the military), travel is allowed by air and they are opening their island to foreigners so now it becomes questionable that the governor can continue to violate an American's rights for equal and fair treatment when in another state.


Again, I’m not asking about your views on foreign travelers into Hawaii. I am questioning your earlier statement that residents of Hawaii moving within Hawaii somehow is unfair to out of state Americans. And that it could be challenged in court. I am asking what the basis of that case would be. And with Hawaii looking to start Interisland travel, your take is of interest to me. Especially with the way Hawaii is geographically set. 
You have made it clear that foreign travel into Hawaii would be violating the constitution, I understand that. But I’m not sure how a resident, in any particular state not just Hawaii, would be violating the travel rights of a non resident simply by traveling within their own state. And if I read your earlier statement wrong, please correct me.


----------



## stagmite

Moshi737 said:


> Again, I’m not asking about your views on foreign travelers into Hawaii. *I am questioning your earlier statement that residents of Hawaii moving within Hawaii somehow is unfair to out of state Americans.* And that it could be challenged in court. I am asking what the basis of that case would be. And with Hawaii looking to start Interisland travel, your take is of interest to me. Especially with the way Hawaii is geographically set.
> You have made it clear that foreign travel into Hawaii would be violating the constitution, I understand that. But I’m not sure how a resident, in any particular state not just Hawaii, would be violating the travel rights of a non resident simply by traveling within their own state. And if I read your earlier statement wrong, please correct me.



I don't think I said that. I'm laying out the case that potentially could be used by the Justice department that Hawaii has exceeded it's authority to strip American's of their rights for freedom of movement which is governed by the Privileges and Immunities Clause of the United States Constitution which states, "The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States." The case to me would seem like a slam dunk for the Justice department if you no longer have a quarantine for Hawaii residents flying inter island, Hawaii allows some domestic travelers from the main land to arrive in Hawaii without having to quarantine, and Hawaii allows foreign nations of their choosing to visit their state without quarantine then all those combined builds a strong enough case to bring a lawsuit against the state for stripping American's of their rights for free movement within the US.


----------



## SirDuff

stagmite said:


> I don't think I said that. I'm laying out the case that potentially could be used by the Justice department that Hawaii has exceeded it's authority to strip American's of their rights for freedom of movement which is governed by the Privileges and Immunities Clause of the United States Constitution which states, "The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States." The case to me would seem like a slam dunk for the Justice department if you no longer have a quarantine for Hawaii residents flying inter island, Hawaii allows some domestic travelers from the main land to arrive in Hawaii without having to quarantine, and Hawaii allows foreign nations of their choosing to visit their state without quarantine then all those combined builds a strong enough case to bring a lawsuit against the state for stripping American's of their rights for free movement within the US.



I think that the intra-island travel is something of a red herring.  Just doing that isn't a problem.  Allowing foreign nationals to come to Hawaii but barring US nationals (Though I don't think it's nationals, it's residents.  I'm a Canadian national but I live in Europe.  Once the US closed its borders to those coming from Europe, that included me (this was before the US/Canada border had restrictions)) is a problem with or without allowing intra-island travel for Hawaii residents.


----------



## travelmomof3

We decided to cancel our August trip to Hawaii.  Just not worth the hassle right now.


----------



## Noah_t

Moshi737 said:


> So the article is about out of state visitors, not in state residents moving within their state. So again I ask, what would be the challenge in court?
> The foreign visitors subject is a separate matter that I don’t have an interest in. Im more curious in how residents moving about in their own state would be unfair to people from out of state.
> Not trying to be argumentative. This whole thread has been a good discussion. An interesting look at how people view Hawaii.


Not only does this seem lawful on the face of it it passes my fairness smell test.  To me it seems pretty fair to allow interisland travel without a quarantine at the same time still requiring our of state visitors to quarantine but W T F does fairness have to do with anything.


----------



## Sepo

I think the answer is to go back to the mildly bad idea of <72 hr pre-departure testing. Acknowledged: Testing is full of flaws (and the rabbit hole goes deeper since the recent investigations are that we do not know what a negative test really means (has to do with shedding differences))... but still, it is better than nothing and can serve as a deterrent to non-motivated travelers.

As noted, the state’s power to enforce this only occurs after landing unless all the airlines play ball, which is unlikely. In short they likely cannot prevent boarding.  So you could be dealing with a lot of visitors who are not tested until they land, gridlock back-ups, quarantine if results not available quickly, and residents up in arms when positives are found in the waiting time  after leaving the airport.


----------



## kdonnel

Sepo said:


> I think the answer is to go back to the mildly bad idea of <72 hr pre-departure testing.


What happens when the test result is not returned in time?  My brother in law's test results took 10 days to be returned.


----------



## VandVsmama

kdonnel said:


> What happens when the test result is not returned in time?  My brother in law's test results took 10 days to be returned.





Sepo said:


> I think the answer is to go back to the mildly bad idea of <72 hr pre-departure testing. Acknowledged: Testing is full of flaws (and the rabbit hole goes deeper since the recent investigations are that we do not know what a negative test really means (has to do with shedding differences))... but still, it is better than nothing and can serve as a deterrent to non-motivated travelers.
> 
> As noted, the state’s power to enforce this only occurs after landing unless all the airlines play ball, which is unlikely. In short they likely cannot prevent boarding.  So you could be dealing with a lot of visitors who are not tested until they land, gridlock back-ups, quarantine if results not available quickly, and residents up in arms when positives are found in the waiting time  after leaving the airport.



All totally valid points.  It's definitely not an ideal situation and will pretty much make traveling to Hawaii a Royal Hawaiian Pain in the Neck for a long time.  If they're doing testing when we go in March to Maui, we won't be going.


----------



## ChrisBerry

gioiamama said:


> Your numbers are inaccurate. We are expecting 3.5M visitors for the remainder of the year, vs. our normal 30M. Travel will bring the virus. We have a few 100 ICU beds on Oahu. Is it worth the risk?


As much as I absolutely love Hawaii, I want it to reopen when it is safe. That may mean a vaccine. Their health care system is not large enough to support their residents and tourists.


----------



## ksromack

kdonnel said:


> What happens when the test result is not returned in time?  My brother in law's test results took 10 days to be returned.


I have an old friend who is an architect and does business in Hong Kong quite often.  He is on his second week of quarantine.  He said when he arrived in China from Chicago he was taken to the mandatory testing facility where he was tested (saliva).  Each person had their own 2m square taped off on the floor and was provided some chips,  bottles of water, a lousy sandwich (his words), Twix bars, a small table and a desk chair within that square.  I didn't ask him about bathroom breaks   Anyway, he waited 10 hours for his test to be complete until he was given the ability to call a taxi to take him to his hotel.  Once he was in his hotel room he had to activate his electronic bracelet where he had to walk the boundries of his room for 60 seconds so the GPS would know his acceptable space for the next 14 days.  Oh, and he has to monitor his temperature and record it on his government form.  He said he actually admired the vigilance in testing since in a city of 4.7 million there had only been 1066 positive cases (at that time) and 4 deaths.


----------



## Moshi737

stagmite said:


> I don't think I said that. I'm laying out the case that potentially could be used by the Justice department that Hawaii has exceeded it's authority to strip American's of their rights for freedom of movement which is governed by the Privileges and Immunities Clause of the United States Constitution which states, "The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States." The case to me would seem like a slam dunk for the Justice department if you no longer have a quarantine for Hawaii residents flying inter island, Hawaii allows some domestic travelers from the main land to arrive in Hawaii without having to quarantine, and Hawaii allows foreign nations of their choosing to visit their state without quarantine then all those combined builds a strong enough case to bring a lawsuit against the state for stripping American's of their rights for free movement within the US.


Okay, thank you for the information. I see resident inter island travel as being a separate matter to foreign travel into Hawaii. They are not one in the same. Combined, yes home run case. Separately, not so much.


----------



## gioiamama

ChrisBerry said:


> As much as I absolutely love Hawaii, I want it to reopen when it is safe. That may mean a vaccine. Their health care system is not large enough to support their residents and tourists.



Thank you, this point continues to be lost on the thread!


----------



## Dismama2

While I do think inter-island, and “tourism” travel are separate issues, it is hypocritical to say that the reason for lifting the island to island quarantine is for families to be able to see each other (a point I don’t disagree with), but then when it comes to non Hawaiian residents visiting, prioritizing foreign travel revenue over mainland AMERICANS visiting their FAMILY in Hawaii does not sit well with me.


----------



## emilymad

I don't think anyone is arguing that Hawaii can keep itself closed until their is a vaccine if that is what they feel is needed for their residents.  The issue is partially opening the state which defeats a lot of the purpose of quarantine.  If they are really looking for tourism dollars they would be better off announcing either they are opening or closing.  The ambiguity (even though understandable) is going to push people to other vacation destinations.


----------



## cedricandsophie

We rescheduled aulani from may to September and yesterday just cancelled that. We moved our points to WDW in September. This will be the first year we haven’t gone to aulani in 7 years. We love it there. We hope to try again next year.


----------



## VandVsmama

I respect the Hawaii state government's right to make their own decisions.  I disagree with many of those decisions.  I'm frustrated, like many WDW tourists are frustrated, that we keep having to change our plans and I'm of the mindset of "screw it, I'll go to Hawaii maybe in 5 years after this has all blown over."

A week ago, they were babbling about "we're going to make every incoming visitor get a COVID-19 test before they arrive" to "if you don't get tested at home, we'll test you when you land" to yesterday's proclamation from the lieutenant governor stating that they can't force everyone to get tested, so they're now thinking of randomly testing 1 out of every 20 incoming visitors and then the test (the shove the giant Q-tip up your nose test) will be voluntary.

But only for US visitors.  International visitors from specific countries - you're fine, no need to test.

Say goodbye to the Hawaiian economy.  It'll end up as bad as the economic impact of that hurricane years ago to Kauai. It took Kauai 10 years to recover from that.


----------



## bavaria

ChrisBerry said:


> As much as I absolutely love Hawaii, I want it to reopen when it is safe. That may mean a vaccine. Their health care system is not large enough to support their residents and tourists.


I landed in HNL near the end of January, entered a taxi, and sneezed (and subsequently tried to restrain myself from sneezing more) The taxi driver asked 'you didn't just come from China did you?' to which I replied, 'No, Japan'. I had in fact been on Hokkaido, the first Japanese hotspot, surrounded by Chinese tourists in close quarters like packed public busess and shopping malls and restaurants, and did have respiratory symptoms (It may have been my usual monthly bug that I pick up with an immune system impacted by cancer and flying 3-5x a week, or it may have been COVID19,  as both of the people I was with during that period also had a strange illness) We were already aware of an illness in Wuhan from late December, and it was certainly being discussed in Asia and in Europe by early January.

With the exception of the secluded beaches I know on the North Shore, wherever I went those few days was full of Chinese tourists. Waikiki shops and restaurants were as busy as always, or to me frankly even busier than I recalled seeing.

There is a very good chance that in fact COVID19 was being transmitted around HI (or more likely Oahu based on where Asian tourists visit) in January. Yet HI was not hard hit. This is similar to other places which never banned flights from China, and still did not see significant increase in cases.


----------



## Sepo

bavaria said:


> I landed in HNL near the end of January, entered a taxi, and sneezed (and subsequently tried to restrain myself from sneezing more) The taxi driver asked 'you didn't just come from China did you?' to which I replied, 'No, Japan'. I had in fact been on Hokkaido, the first Japanese hotspot, surrounded by Chinese tourists in close quarters like packed public busess and shopping malls and restaurants, and did have respiratory symptoms (It may have been my usual monthly bug that I pick up with an immune system impacted by cancer and flying 3-5x a week, or it may have been COVID19,  as both of the people I was with during that period also had a strange illness) We were already aware of an illness in Wuhan from late December, and it was certainly being discussed in Asia and in Europe by early January.
> 
> With the exception of the secluded beaches I know on the North Shore, wherever I went those few days was full of Chinese tourists. Waikiki shops and restaurants were as busy as always, or to me frankly even busier than I recalled seeing.
> 
> There is a very good chance that in fact COVID19 was being transmitted around HI (or more likely Oahu based on where Asian tourists visit) in January. Yet HI was not hard hit. This is similar to other places which never banned flights from China, and still did not see significant increase in cases.



I’ve expressed the same sentiment. Hawaii, along with most states, was not allowed to test but for very specific circumstances and may have missed confirming an early wave of cases. On my (physician) message boards there was a lot of consternation of such in February from docs there.  In any event, their serious life threatening numbers remained small thankfully so it’s water under the bridge except for the damage of the misperception.


----------



## bavaria

Sepo said:


> I’ve expressed the same sentiment. Hawaii, along with most states, was not allowed to test but for very specific circumstances and may have missed confirming an early wave of cases. On my (physician) message boards there was a lot of consternation of such in February from docs there.  In any event, their serious life threatening numbers remained small thankfully so it’s water under the bridge except for the damage of the misperception.


I do think that there are places where the numbers were relatively low, or cases were mild, as in much of Asia. The challenge is how to balance the response and plans to reopen and in some areas it does seem that the response is out of proportion to the risk.

HI would be wise to look to Europe and how the reopening is progressing especially after 15th June. In Germany, R0 may have risen again, but cases and deaths continue to drop. All over Europe it is similar patterns, and people already began to travel a few weeks ago with some markets seeing strong hotel numbers.

Certainly the isolation of places like HI does mean that they have to be cautious, but at what cost to their people and their economy? Even in this thread it sounds like some visitors are put off for future visits because of these decisions.

Edited to add: there are other places more isolated, such as the Seychelles, and the Maldives. Both have reopened to private jets and private yachts as they have demand from the super wealthy. They have taken the risk that someone from Germany or Switzerland may have brought it, because they had to weigh the risk to the overall economic impact to their people. Both countries are now weighing how to invite back other tourists, although the Maldives plan of a minimum 14 day stay is not realistic. Both are also places where visitors go to one island/atoll for the most part, and do not travel around the country.


----------



## bavaria

Today Fiji declared itself COVID-free, 45 days after the last case was reported.

And now what? Fiji joins a list of mostly island countries with extremely low or no cases, which has to find a way to move forward from isolation. While HI may be one of the poorest states, poverty in Fiji is much more significant. Most tourists unfortunately never travel the main island away from the resorts to see the reality of a country often ravaged by hurricanes, with poor soil and few resources other than tourism.

65 percent of their tourism comes from Australia and New Zealand, and 9 percent from the US. If Australia and NZ continue to prohibit their citizens to leave the country, Fiji will be devastated. I've seen what life is like there in a 'good' year when there are tourists to provide jobs and support schools and villages.

I'm struggling to imagine what people are going through in these poor countries reliant on tourism. I can fully understand why Tanzania opened up to try and capture at least some business during migration. Many NGOs have had to discontinue critical work helping to support populations.

There is no easy answer, but ultimately continued isolation as what Hawaii seems to be planning will have a devastating impact on the population.


----------



## kverdon

I think the Gov knows that that they can’t stay shutoff until there is a vaccine. He’s played for as much time as he can but it looks like out of state visitors may be back by August. Unlike Vacation Rentals, Aluani owners are “property owners”. They are staying at property they have bought into so really can’t be denied access to their “property”    Indefinitely.


----------



## SirDuff

bavaria said:


> Today Fiji declared itself COVID-free, 45 days after the last case was reported.
> 
> And now what? Fiji joins a list of mostly island countries with extremely low or no cases, which has to find a way to move forward from isolation. While HI may be one of the poorest states, poverty in Fiji is much more significant. Most tourists unfortunately never travel the main island away from the resorts to see the reality of a country often ravaged by hurricanes, with poor soil and few resources other than tourism.
> 
> 65 percent of their tourism comes from Australia and New Zealand, and 9 percent from the US. If Australia and NZ continue to prohibit their citizens to leave the country, Fiji will be devastated. I've seen what life is like there in a 'good' year when there are tourists to provide jobs and support schools and villages.
> 
> I'm struggling to imagine what people are going through in these poor countries reliant on tourism. I can fully understand why Tanzania opened up to try and capture at least some business during migration. Many NGOs have had to discontinue critical work helping to support populations.
> 
> There is no easy answer, but ultimately continued isolation as what Hawaii seems to be planning will have a devastating impact on the population.



We know, from outbreaks like Ebola, that more people will die (at least in LMICs) from  other (e.g. non-Covid) causes.  For example, malnutrition because child feeding stations are closed; malaria because bed net distribution and/or spraying programs have been curtailed; vaccine-preventable diseases (measles is often a big one) because they weren‘t able to be properly vaccinated; and diarrheal diseases (among others) because basic sanitation services fall apart.  

Part of my work is helping to build up essential services so that countries are able to keep providing them throughout emergencies such as this pandemic, but, in many countries, we just aren’t there yet.

Unfortunately, there is a strong correlation between the countries unable to keep up with essential services and those most at risk of the highest mortality rates from Covid.  There really is no easy answer (and I am very thankful that my role does not involve trying to make such decisions).


----------



## Aussie RJ

bavaria said:


> Today Fiji declared itself COVID-free, 45 days after the last case was reported.
> 
> And now what? Fiji joins a list of mostly island countries with extremely low or no cases, which has to find a way to move forward from isolation. While HI may be one of the poorest states, poverty in Fiji is much more significant. Most tourists unfortunately never travel the main island away from the resorts to see the reality of a country often ravaged by hurricanes, with poor soil and few resources other than tourism.
> 
> 65 percent of their tourism comes from Australia and New Zealand, and 9 percent from the US. If Australia and NZ continue to prohibit their citizens to leave the country, Fiji will be devastated. I've seen what life is like there in a 'good' year when there are tourists to provide jobs and support schools and villages.


By all reports New Zealand / Australia / Fiji are not far off a travel bubble. Will be interesting if Hawaii decide to join as it has been mentioned. Not sure how that would work with the US mainland. 
I have plenty of expiring DVC points I would love to sink into the Aulani.


----------



## MickeyD

So I had an interesting conversation last night with a friend of ours that lives in Oahu. I told him we are scheduled for Kauai in September and getting nervous that we won't be welcome or will need to do various protocols to even be allowed in. His first comment to me was: "After July 15th I will bet my house, kids, and everything in it that your trip will be normal and fine in September." So apparently July 15th seems like some sort of "magical date" for them? He did say that the Gov is starting to feel the pressure to reopen and could reopen restaurants etc as early as today or tomorrow. He has not seen or heard any animosity towards mainlanders/tourists and he works in that industry! He also reiterated what has been said here that unemployment funds are running out and people are anxious to get back to work. He encouraged me to travel in September, but he did say if it was before July 15th he would reconsider, but anything after he feels "everything will be back to normal."  Take all that for what you want, but I hope it encourages some of you that have trips coming up. It did help assuage some of my anxiety. Oh, and one more thing, he said SW was starting to amp up flights into and out of the island and that was the first time in 2 months.


----------



## DRussell83

MickeyD said:


> So I had an interesting conversation last night with a friend of ours that lives in Oahu. I told him we are scheduled for Kauai in September and getting nervous that we won't be welcome or will need to do various protocols to even be allowed in. His first comment to me was: "After July 15th I will bet my house, kids, and everything in it that your trip will be normal and fine in September." So apparently July 15th seems like some sort of "magical date" for them? He did say that the Gov is starting to feel the pressure to reopen and could reopen restaurants etc as early as today or tomorrow. He has not seen or heard any animosity towards mainlanders/tourists and he works in that industry! He also reiterated what has been said here that unemployment funds are running out and people are anxious to get back to work. He encouraged me to travel in September, but he did say if it was before July 15th he would reconsider, but anything after he feels "everything will be back to normal."  Take all that for what you want, but I hope it encourages some of you that have trips coming up. It did help assuage some of my anxiety. Oh, and one more thing, he said SW was starting to amp up flights into and out of the island and that was the first time in 2 months.


Thank you so much for this - we are booked for Thanksgiving at Aulani and honestly just looking for any glimmer of hope right now.


----------



## Disney_Fan_01

MickeyD said:


> So I had an interesting conversation last night with a friend of ours that lives in Oahu. I told him we are scheduled for Kauai in September and getting nervous that we won't be welcome or will need to do various protocols to even be allowed in. His first comment to me was: "After July 15th I will bet my house, kids, and everything in it that your trip will be normal and fine in September." So apparently July 15th seems like some sort of "magical date" for them? He did say that the Gov is starting to feel the pressure to reopen and could reopen restaurants etc as early as today or tomorrow. He has not seen or heard any animosity towards mainlanders/tourists and he works in that industry! He also reiterated what has been said here that unemployment funds are running out and people are anxious to get back to work. He encouraged me to travel in September, but he did say if it was before July 15th he would reconsider, but anything after he feels "everything will be back to normal."  Take all that for what you want, but I hope it encourages some of you that have trips coming up. It did help assuage some of my anxiety. Oh, and one more thing, he said SW was starting to amp up flights into and out of the island and that was the first time in 2 months.


 thanks for sharing. Hope, it goes as your friend suggests. We have our trip planned to Aulani and Maui over Christmas/New years. Hope for everyone else’s sake, things open up soon and the virus is contained.


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## MickeyD

DRussell83 said:


> Thank you so much for this - we are booked for Thanksgiving at Aulani and honestly just looking for any glimmer of hope right now.


You are welcome. I feel the same, just looking for a glimmer of hope, and this seems to be that little glint.


----------



## bavaria

Aussie RJ said:


> By all reports New Zealand / Australia / Fiji are not far off a travel bubble. Will be interesting if Hawaii decide to join as it has been mentioned. Not sure how that would work with the US mainland.
> I have plenty of expiring DVC points I would love to sink into the Aulani.


Keep in mind however that just because borders open, people will not immediately travel. They need advance notice and preparation time to book a holiday, and those countries who continue to maintain closed borders or quarantines despite marked improvements globally will find themselves the economic losers.

Indications are now that the EU will open up to Schengen by 15th June, and possibly to most of the rest of the world by 1st July. If Hawaii continues to dither, they may not be able to take advantage of the short term opportunities.


----------



## Silver Queen

kverdon said:


> I think the Gov knows that that they can’t stay shutoff until there is a vaccine. He’s played for as much time as he can but it looks like out of state visitors may be back by August. Unlike Vacation Rentals, Aluani owners are “property owners”. They are staying at property they have bought into so really can’t be denied access to their “property”    Indefinitely.



Actually, unlike many other vacation time shares, DVC members are not considered “owners”.  That was made very clear to us when we joined in 2008.  There is an ending date on all of the contracts.


----------



## ksromack

MickeyD said:


> So I had an interesting conversation last night with a friend of ours that lives in Oahu. I told him we are scheduled for Kauai in September and getting nervous that we won't be welcome or will need to do various protocols to even be allowed in. His first comment to me was: "After July 15th I will bet my house, kids, and everything in it that your trip will be normal and fine in September." So apparently July 15th seems like some sort of "magical date" for them? He did say that the Gov is starting to feel the pressure to reopen and could reopen restaurants etc as early as today or tomorrow. He has not seen or heard any animosity towards mainlanders/tourists and he works in that industry! He also reiterated what has been said here that unemployment funds are running out and people are anxious to get back to work. He encouraged me to travel in September, but he did say if it was before July 15th he would reconsider, but anything after he feels "everything will be back to normal."  Take all that for what you want, but I hope it encourages some of you that have trips coming up. It did help assuage some of my anxiety. Oh, and one more thing, he said SW was starting to amp up flights into and out of the island and that was the first time in 2 months.


I have a friend/old coworker that lives on Oahu also and when I asked about the July 15th date, she said that nothing has been said about any date.  At first she was all for them opening up but now doesn't seem too anxious for that to happen.  She's a transplant from my hometown.  Her husband suffered a pretty bad heart attack while they were vacationing in Honolulu about 10 years ago.  He had to stay in the hospital and she flew home, sold their house, and moved to Oahu.  We work in healthcare, incidently so I'm guessing she is aware of the healthcare capabilities in Hawaii.


----------



## MickeyD

ksromack said:


> I have a friend/old coworker that lives on Oahu also and when I asked about the July 15th date, she said that nothing has been said about any date.  At first she was all for them opening up but now doesn't seem too anxious for that to happen.  She's a transplant from my hometown.  Her husband suffered a pretty bad heart attack while they were vacationing in Honolulu about 10 years ago.  He had to stay in the hospital and she flew home, sold their house, and moved to Oahu.  We work in healthcare, incidently so I'm guessing she is aware of the healthcare capabilities in Hawaii.



I think what he is referring to is that the CARE act money runs out mid July and people will start getting antsy to get back to work?


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## SeanCLV

We have a vacation planned for Aulani in late July. I wish that a) the governor would offer more specific guidance instead of just saying he is extending the quarantine past June 30th, and b) that the policies of their major air carrier which transports tourists into the state, Hawaiian Airlines, would match the wants of the governor and the people of the state. 

I am concerned our trip will fall in this weird administrative limbo where the people of the state won't want me there, but things will be officially 'open' although limited. Where if I don't want to go I don't get my money back. I have tried getting a refund from HA and of course they aren't willing to give my money back at this point, just a credit.  But who knows what the value of that credit will be in the future, will they go bankrupt, will fares go up drastically in an attempt to save their business? So the only certain thing right now is it appears that I will be giving HA an interest-free loan going into the future...


----------



## cgattis

SeanCLV said:


> We have a vacation planned for Aulani in late July. I wish that a) the governor would offer more specific guidance instead of just saying he is extending the quarantine past June 30th, and b) that the policies of their major air carrier which transports tourists into the state, Hawaiian Airlines, would match the wants of the governor and the people of the state.
> 
> I am concerned our trip will fall in this weird administrative limbo where the people of the state won't want me there, but things will be officially 'open' although limited. Where if I don't want to go I don't get my money back. I have tried getting a refund from HA and of course they aren't willing to give my money back at this point, just a credit.  But who knows what the value of that credit will be in the future, will they go bankrupt, will fares go up drastically in an attempt to save their business? So the only certain thing right now is it appears that I will be giving HA an interest-free loan going into the future...


Sorry—that limbo really sucks.  We’re going in 2022 and I’m almost certainly not flying Hawaiian for this very reason.


----------



## OKW Lover

SeanCLV said:


> that the policies of their major air carrier which transports tourists into the state, Hawaiian Airlines, would match the wants of the governor and the people of the state.


Just to be clear, Hawaiian Airlines is not a state owned company.


----------



## jenmiller114

SeanCLV said:


> We have a vacation planned for Aulani in late July. I wish that a) the governor would offer more specific guidance instead of just saying he is extending the quarantine past June 30th, and b) that the policies of their major air carrier which transports tourists into the state, Hawaiian Airlines, would match the wants of the governor and the people of the state.



I feel for you.  We are supposed to be at Aulani on June 26 and Hilton Hawaiian Village on July 1 and neither of them have cancelled.  Aulani is a given at this point and HHV is pretty likely.  But I agree.  It's all about waiting on the governor to make a decision.  He knows what he wants to do so he needs to just do it and put us out of our misery.  You can't keep giving 15 days notice to hotels and travelers.  Everyone needs time to get ready for whatever that decision is.  And the airlines are in a waiting game, as well.  Because if hotels do open then they don't want to cancel the flights.  But if they don't, then they need to plan accordingly.  

I am trying to make a tentative booking for August 1 but  my son goes back to school on Aug 11 (maybe???) so I am running out of time.  The only reason I want to take this trip is because I am happy sitting on my lanai staring at the ocean for 10 days.  I am tired of staring at my street.  But if I could find a reasonable alternative, I would cancel right now and go someplace else.  Unfortunately, all of my trips are paid on vacation points so that limits my options.  I am fine with the trip being cancelled (though I would be very disappointed)  I just want someone to tell me so I can move on.


----------



## SammyStamper

SeanCLV said:


> We have a vacation planned for Aulani in late July. I wish that a) the governor would offer more specific guidance instead of just saying he is extending the quarantine past June 30th, and b) that the policies of their major air carrier which transports tourists into the state, Hawaiian Airlines, would match the wants of the governor and the people of the state.
> 
> I am concerned our trip will fall in this weird administrative limbo where the people of the state won't want me there, but things will be officially 'open' although limited. Where if I don't want to go I don't get my money back. I have tried getting a refund from HA and of course they aren't willing to give my money back at this point, just a credit.  But who knows what the value of that credit will be in the future, will they go bankrupt, will fares go up drastically in an attempt to save their business? So the only certain thing right now is it appears that I will be giving HA an interest-free loan going into the future...



I feel your pain as we have/had a trip to Kauai leaving arriving August 1st. We have cancelled our timeshare but still holding the flights in hopes Alaska has to cancel. Yes, they are issuing credits but I would rather be able to push for a refund.


----------



## SinCityMMAFan

SeanCLV said:


> We have a vacation planned for Aulani in late July. I wish that a) the governor would offer more specific guidance instead of just saying he is extending the quarantine past June 30th, and b) that the policies of their major air carrier which transports tourists into the state, Hawaiian Airlines, would match the wants of the governor and the people of the state.
> 
> I am concerned our trip will fall in this weird administrative limbo where the people of the state won't want me there, but things will be officially 'open' although limited. Where if I don't want to go I don't get my money back.* I have tried getting a refund from HA and of course they aren't willing to give my money back at this point, just a credit.*  But who knows what the value of that credit will be in the future, will they go bankrupt, will fares go up drastically in an attempt to save their business? So the only certain thing right now is it appears that I will be giving HA an interest-free loan going into the future...



If you haven't opted for the credit for future travel yet, you can try to wait it out.  Hawaiian Airlines recently had a class action lawsuit filed against them for not refunding money on cancelled flights.  If the flight you are on gets cancelled they have to refund you your money. It's an order from the DOT.  I'm guessing the airlines will do anything and everything to try to make you believe that you can only get a future travel credit because of course they want to keep your money.  Also for what it's worth I've found an article saying Hawaiian has clearance to keep many flights from the mainland suspended until the end of September.  Article is linked below, info on that is towards the bottom of the article. 

https://www.samoanews.com/local-new...-airs-requests-suspend-most-out-state-flights


----------



## mentos

SinCityMMAFan said:


> If you haven't opted for the credit for future travel yet, you can try to wait it out.  Hawaiian Airlines recently had a class action lawsuit filed against them for not refunding money on cancelled flights.  If the flight you are on gets cancelled they have to refund you your money. It's an order from the DOT.  I'm guessing the airlines will do anything and everything to try to make you believe that you can only get a future travel credit because of course they want to keep your money.  Also for what it's worth I've found an article saying Hawaiian has clearance to keep many flights from the mainland suspended until the end of September.  Article is linked below, info on that is towards the bottom of the article.
> 
> https://www.samoanews.com/local-new...-airs-requests-suspend-most-out-state-flights



Hawaiian Airlines’ back end IT is run by goats, literally my electronic request for a refund from a cancelled flight got turned into an email that someone had to look at.

I had to badger them a bit on Twitter where they claimed it would take “1-2 billing cycles to show up” which may have been true in 1980. 5 days later, refunds appear.

For that reason, my upcoming trip in November is booked on Southwest Airlines. If I have to cancel, at least I can parcel out the credits and fly to Disneyland a few times.

I’m not tying up anymore money on HA until I’m >95% sure my flight will not be interrupted.

I love them as an airline but sometimes/a lot of times they make it really hard for me to love them.


----------



## Galun

We have a trip planned for late July.  If there is no quarantine, we will probably go for like 1.5 months, until the kids start school again.

So I have been tracking Hawaii's plan to re-open to tourism, or lack there of.  A couple days ago I saw a plan presented by their politicians.  They were talking about the need to change the economy to be less depending on tourism, and want to attract tech and finance companies to go there.

I mean, no $hit Sherlock, it's great if you can diversify in the long run, but maybe figure out your 30% unemployment NOW due to lack of tourism first?  But then I guess they are getting fed money, most are getting unemployment, so they are taking their sweet time.

I am this close from calling it a day and book in Orlando, and not visit Hawaii again for a couple years, if ever.   Open up, or not, it doesn't really matter as long as they make a decision so people can plan!  For a state where the biggest economy is tourism, it just boggles my mind that they are freaking destroy it with their lack of decision, it's not like they don't know tourists need to plan.  Take some leadership and accountability and just make a decision already.  Instead it almost seemed like they enjoy listening to their own speech using covid to push their agenda in tax payer funded subsidies for tech and finance.  It's ridiculous.


----------



## montreid

@Galun - wow.  okay. 

I believe the majority of the residents there are backing their Gov's handling of their affairs and citizens reporting the small non-compliant visiting mainlanders.   Though draconian, they have largely contained this issue.   As people may know and realize, Hawaii has a very limited medical support structure so COVID can easily overwhelm them if it runs unrestrained.  Their closest backup is a 6+ hour plane ride away.  

We have a 2 week trip starting July 27th and at this point we're thinking 50/50 proposition.   Luckily flights are on points with SWA, and we have both outbound on 27th and 3rd, in case to reduce to 1 week instead of 2 week stay.    For backup we have  Disneyland for end of August.

Worst case, a bottle of Kahlua at home poolside I suppose.


----------



## heaven2dc

jenmiller114 said:


> I feel for you.  We are supposed to be at Aulani on June 26 and Hilton Hawaiian Village on July 1 and neither of them have cancelled.  Aulani is a given at this point and HHV is pretty likely.  But I agree.  It's all about waiting on the governor to make a decision.  He knows what he wants to do so he needs to just do it and put us out of our misery.  You can't keep giving 15 days notice to hotels and travelers.  Everyone needs time to get ready for whatever that decision is.  And the airlines are in a waiting game, as well.  Because if hotels do open then they don't want to cancel the flights.  But if they don't, then they need to plan accordingly.
> 
> I am trying to make a tentative booking for August 1 but  my son goes back to school on Aug 11 (maybe???) so I am running out of time.  The only reason I want to take this trip is because I am happy sitting on my lanai staring at the ocean for 10 days.  I am tired of staring at my street.  But if I could find a reasonable alternative, I would cancel right now and go someplace else.  Unfortunately, all of my trips are paid on vacation points so that limits my options.  I am fine with the trip being cancelled (though I would be very disappointed)  I just want someone to tell me so I can move on.



One thing you might want to consider is if you do arrive in Honolulu on June 26, you'll need to have hotel accommodations booked for 14 days straight as you won't be able to leave your hotel room until the 14 days quarantine is finished at that accommodation (except to exercise on the beach or swim in the ocean).   Just something to consider since the 14-day quarantine is in effect until June 30th with no word as to whether it will continue through July.  Personally I would rather change my dates to when it's confirmed the quarantine is lifted and when either of your hotels will open (and what the restrictions are at those hotels).  Good luck!


----------



## NJ Mets fan

Here's my dilemma.  I'm scheduled to go July 10th and I borrowed all my points (200) from 2021 for this trip.  If I cancel now before the quarantine is extended will all my points stay in 2020?  I have a Feb use year.  I caught a break over the weekend when United canceled my direct flights from Newark to Honolulu and rescheduled me on connecting flights so per the FAA if I request a refund they have to honor it.   I want to book a different vacation but I'm in this lousy holding pattern because Gov Ige won't give us some more definitive guidance.  The longer I wait to book something else, my options (non-Disney) dry up or go up in price.  I can take the gamble and book another vacation hoping Disney has to cancel me if the quarantine is extended which will return my points into the use years they came from but it would be several thousand dollars I could lose.  Thanks for any feedback!


----------



## JoshF

corgi_monster said:


> Almost definitely.  Or some sort of proof that you already have the antibodies.
> 
> If the government doesn't require visitors to show some sort of proof that they are not actively carrying the disease, Hawaii residents will be up in arms.  I would expect a huge grassroots movement to include massive picket lines outside the airport and hotels, harassment, etc.  The negativity towards tourists is already out of hand and an open border with no testing would amplify it immensely.


Isn't tourism important to Hawaii residents?


----------



## Galun

montreid said:


> @Galun - wow.  okay.
> 
> I believe the majority of the residents there are backing their Gov's handling of their affairs and citizens reporting the small non-compliant visiting mainlanders.   Though draconian, they have largely contained this issue.   As people may know and realize, Hawaii has a very limited medical support structure so COVID can easily overwhelm them if it runs unrestrained.  Their closest backup is a 6+ hour plane ride away.
> 
> We have a 2 week trip starting July 27th and at this point we're thinking 50/50 proposition.   Luckily flights are on points with SWA, and we have both outbound on 27th and 3rd, in case to reduce to 1 week instead of 2 week stay.    For backup we have  Disneyland for end of August.
> 
> Worst case, a bottle of Kahlua at home poolside I suppose.



Ok, then they should announce a long term shut down.  Announce no tourism until August.  September.  Or longer.  Whatever their population wants.  I don't have a problem with them locking down the island, that's totally up to them.  If they want to lock it down for a year or longer until a vaccine is developed, and they have consensus among their population to absolutely destroy their tourism industry, that's fine. 

I do have a problem with indecision in their leadership.  Merely stating quarantine will most likely extend beyond June 30 is not leadership.  They don't even have concrete metrics in what's required to open up the state again.  It's just leadership punting important decisions.  I can understand this happening in March / April.  It's absurd to have no concrete plan in place by this point.  When they make a decision, then people can plan.  Airlines / hotels will have to cancel and give refunds.  Tourists can then go somewhere else or stay home.


----------



## Galun

NJ Mets fan said:


> Here's my dilemma.  I'm scheduled to go July 10th and I borrowed all my points (200) from 2021 for this trip.  If I cancel now before the quarantine is extended will all my points stay in 2020?  I have a Feb use year.  I caught a break over the weekend when United canceled my direct flights from Newark to Honolulu and rescheduled me on connecting flights so per the FAA if I request a refund they have to honor it.   I want to book a different vacation but I'm in this lousy holding pattern because Gov Ige won't give us some more definitive guidance.  The longer I wait to book something else, my options (non-Disney) dry up or go up in price.  I can take the gamble and book another vacation hoping Disney has to cancel me if the quarantine is extended which will return my points into the use years they came from but it would be several thousand dollars I could lose.  Thanks for any feedback!



I booked 3x 2bedrooms for 6 families in late July, and I had to cancel two (still holding our hope with one room).  All borrow points were unborrowed, completed while I was oil the phone.  Basically, when you cancel an Aulani reservation, all points go back to their original status as if you had not made the reservation.  This is because Aulani still does not have an opening date.  I don't know whether this policy will change if Aulani has a firm opening date.

What you stated about this "holding pattern" is precisely what I am upset about the leadership at Hawaii.  It's not March / April anymore.  We have lived through this for 3 months.  Make a damn decision and stick with it.


----------



## NJ Mets fan

Galun said:


> I booked 3x 2bedrooms for 6 families in late July, and I had to cancel two (still holding our hope with one room).  All borrow points were unborrowed, completed while I was oil the phone.  Basically, when you cancel an Aulani reservation, all points go back to their original status as if you had not made the reservation.  This is because Aulani still does not have an opening date.  I don't know whether this policy will change if Aulani has a firm opening date.
> 
> What you stated about this "holding pattern" is precisely what I am upset about the leadership at Hawaii.  It's not March / April anymore.  We have lived through this for 3 months.  Make a damn decision and stick with it.


Yep - I agree 100%.  I read last week they plan to extend beyond 6/30.  If that's the case then announce something - will  definitely be at least until 7/15 or 7/31, or whatever, so people can get on with their lives.  I may call tomorrow if I can get through and try to cancel.   United Airlines sucks too because they rebooked us from a direct flight with 3 aisle and 3 window seats onto flights with 3 windows and 3 middle seats.  Obviously they didn't care about spacing because the entire flight are full.


----------



## mentos

NJ Mets fan said:


> Here's my dilemma.  I'm scheduled to go July 10th and I borrowed all my points (200) from 2021 for this trip.  If I cancel now before the quarantine is extended will all my points stay in 2020?  I have a Feb use year.



As always, confirm with member services before you do this...but if I were you, I would cancel the reservation and have the points returned to February 2021. That gives you the option of going 2/2021-1/2022 or bank them for 2/2022-1/2023 for maximum flexibility.

I have a February UY also and am booked the first or second week of February 2021.


----------



## corgi_monster

JoshF said:


> Isn't tourism important to Hawaii residents?



You'd think so, right?  But local polling, both scientific and not, have showed the majority of people are opposed to opening up Hawaii to tourism at this time.  A scientific poll conducted in late May by Civil Beat (a moderate publication) showed 70% of people thought that stomping out coronavirus was the top priority.  A lot of locals see this as a decision between protecting their families OR restarting tourism.  Very few see that both are possible so long as reasonable precautions are taken.  




Galun said:


> Take some leadership and accountability and just make a decision already.



This is the same governor who couldn't tell us that the North Korean nuclear missile alert we received was a false alarm because he FORGOT HIS TWITTER PASSWORD.  Beyond that, the current drama between the legislators and dept. heads would put any real housewife to shame . . . oh, and the head of the Hawaii Tourism Authority is stepping down.  And the head of the hotel/service workers labor union is stepping down to run for mayor.  And primary voting (where most if not all races are decided) starts next month so nobody wants to be known as "the guy who is advocating to open up tourism".  So yup, it's a   show here!




Regarding the Asia travel bubble program, I believe this is the state's rationale for why they believe it may be legal:

1.  ALL visitors, whether they are from the US mainland or from within the travel bubble, would still be required to undergo the 14-day quarantine. 
2.  Visitors from within the bubble who can provide some sort of medical clearance would be granted an EXEMPTION (this one word is the crux of the state's argument) from the state instituted quarantine.  There is no federal travel ban for Japan, Korea, etc. so the state isn't trying to supersede federal mandate.
3.  It's well established that Hawaii can grant exemptions to state laws for foreign goods/animals while upholding that very same law when it comes to goods/animals coming in from the US mainland. 
4.  No group of US citizens is being treated any better/worse than others.  All US citizens, including Hawaii residents, would still be subject to the 14 day quarantine. Can you make an argument of discrimination if all Americans are held to the same rule. 
5.  If one of the travel bubble countries wants to allow people from Hawaii but not the other 49 states they can do so.  Other countries are not bound to US laws regarding discrimination and free movement. 

Is it ethical? My personal opinion is that it's not.  I think the travel bubble idea plays into a lot of racist stereotypes people in Hawaii have such as Asians being respectful and rich while Americans are well . . . "ugly Americans".   More importantly, you don't bite the hand that feeds you.


----------



## Dismama2

I don’t think it is ethical. And as someone who cancelled July plans to visit family in Hawaii while the priority seems to be on mainstreaming tourism from select foreign countries, I have to say much of the appeal of Hawaii has been lost. We have chose to vacation in our own state (which we are fortunate to have lots to do and low case numbers) and there is gratitude for the return of tourists and the money for the local economy.


----------



## Galun

corgi_monster said:


> You'd think so, right?  But local polling, both scientific and not, have showed the majority of people are opposed to opening up Hawaii to tourism at this time.  A scientific poll conducted in late May by Civil Beat (a moderate publication) showed 70% of people thought that stomping out coronavirus was the top priority.  A lot of locals see this as a decision between protecting their families OR restarting tourism.  Very few see that both are possible so long as reasonable precautions are taken.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the same governor who couldn't tell us that the North Korean nuclear missile alert we received was a false alarm because he FORGOT HIS TWITTER PASSWORD.  Beyond that, the current drama between the legislators and dept. heads would put any real housewife to shame . . . oh, and the head of the Hawaii Tourism Authority is stepping down.  And the head of the hotel/service workers labor union is stepping down to run for mayor.  And primary voting (where most if not all races are decided) starts next month so nobody wants to be known as "the guy who is advocating to open up tourism".  So yup, it's a   show here!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Regarding the Asia travel bubble program, I believe this is the state's rationale for why they believe it may be legal:
> 
> 1.  ALL visitors, whether they are from the US mainland or from within the travel bubble, would still be required to undergo the 14-day quarantine.
> 2.  Visitors from within the bubble who can provide some sort of medical clearance would be granted an EXEMPTION (this one word is the crux of the state's argument) from the state instituted quarantine.  There is no federal travel ban for Japan, Korea, etc. so the state isn't trying to supersede federal mandate.
> 3.  It's well established that Hawaii can grant exemptions to state laws for foreign goods/animals while upholding that very same law when it comes to goods/animals coming in from the US mainland.
> 4.  No group of US citizens is being treated any better/worse than others.  All US citizens, including Hawaii residents, would still be subject to the 14 day quarantine. Can you make an argument of discrimination if all Americans are held to the same rule.
> 5.  If one of the travel bubble countries wants to allow people from Hawaii but not the other 49 states they can do so.  Other countries are not bound to US laws regarding discrimination and free movement.
> 
> Is it ethical? My personal opinion is that it's not.  I think the travel bubble idea plays into a lot of racist stereotypes people in Hawaii have such as Asians being respectful and rich while Americans are well . . . "ugly Americans".   More importantly, you don't bite the hand that feeds you.



Thanks for the perspective.  LOL at the governor forgetting his twitter password.  Did not know that but certainly does not surprise me at all.

I can understand native Hawaiian’s view on disease.  I believe there is a cultural history of mainlanders first visiting Hawaii, brining disease that locals don’t have immunity to, and killed a lot of them.  As for lost tourism jobs, the feds are providing unemployment. I personally have a business in California where some employees (now ex) prefer to stay on unemployment because it pays better.  So I can kinda understand the local’s view.  But this is where government leadership should step in.

Anyways, I read that Ige will provide guidance on trans-pacific travel next week.  So hopefully we will at least have closure.

Interesting to see your perspective on how Hawaiians view Asians.  We are Asians so we had experienced nothing but great hospitality from the locals.  We had locals speak to us in Japanese.  Never thought about the situation the way you described it, but now it sort of makes sense.

Yeah I think they will keep the 14 day quarantine and grant exemption based on some kind of metric (probably testing within a couple days), and I think that’s entirely legal and ethical as long as that’s applied to everybody, not just ”travel bubble” countries.


----------



## stagmite

corgi_monster said:


> You'd think so, right?  But local polling, both scientific and not, have showed the majority of people are opposed to opening up Hawaii to tourism at this time.  A scientific poll conducted in late May by Civil Beat (a moderate publication) showed 70% of people thought that stomping out coronavirus was the top priority.  A lot of locals see this as a decision between protecting their families OR restarting tourism.  Very few see that both are possible so long as reasonable precautions are taken.
> 
> Regarding the Asia travel bubble program, I believe this is the state's rationale for why they believe it may be legal:
> 
> 1.  ALL visitors, whether they are from the US mainland or from within the travel bubble, would still be required to undergo the 14-day quarantine.
> 2.  Visitors from within the bubble who can provide some sort of medical clearance would be granted an EXEMPTION (this one word is the crux of the state's argument) from the state instituted quarantine.  There is no federal travel ban for Japan, Korea, etc. so the state isn't trying to supersede federal mandate.
> 3.  It's well established that Hawaii can grant exemptions to state laws for foreign goods/animals while upholding that very same law when it comes to goods/animals coming in from the US mainland.
> 4.  No group of US citizens is being treated any better/worse than others.  All US citizens, including Hawaii residents, would still be subject to the 14 day quarantine. Can you make an argument of discrimination if all Americans are held to the same rule.
> 5.  If one of the travel bubble countries wants to allow people from Hawaii but not the other 49 states they can do so.  Other countries are not bound to US laws regarding discrimination and free movement.



I would say if you redid the poll after July 31st, you'll get a different response. Unless you're just polling retired or rich people in which case keep out the tourist for as long as possible because now you don't have to share the beaches with anybody else. Those with dwindled life savings trying to decide if they should use their lower unemployment checks to pay for food or rent will have a very different set of priorities soon enough.

Even with all the list of points you made in justifying the legality of the travel bubble I still believe a lawsuit will be filed and the state of Hawaii will probable lose if they follow through on this travel bubble idea.


----------



## Galun

stagmite said:


> I would say if you redid the poll after July 31st, you'll get a different response. Unless you're just polling retired or rich people in which case keep out the tourist for as long as possible because now you don't have to share the beaches with anybody else. Those with dwindled life savings trying to decide if they should use their lower unemployment checks to pay for food or rent will have a very different set of priorities soon enough.
> 
> Even with all the list of points you made in justifying the legality of the travel bubble I still believe a lawsuit will be filed and the state of Hawaii will probable lose if they follow through on this travel bubble idea.



Currently I bet many tourism base workers get more from unemployment given the seasonal nature.  That runs out by end of July.  If that’s not extended we will see what happens. 

There is really no legality in travel bubble in my opinion.  They keep the 14 day quarantine for everybody and grant exemptions.  I don’t see legal issues with states imposing their own exemption criteria.


----------



## kyton

corgi_monster said:


> Is it ethical? My personal opinion is that it's not. I think the travel bubble idea plays into a lot of racist stereotypes people in Hawaii have such as Asians being respectful and rich while Americans are well . . . "ugly Americans". More importantly, you don't bite the hand that feeds you.


Corgi, I think that they must include Australians in this category as well - because in our 27+ trips since 1992, we have never experienced anything other then kindness and friendliness. Even today I got a gorgeous email from our favourite hotel in Waikiki because my husband had a shirt sent there back in March. Due to Covid, our trip was cancelled so the hotel reached out to ask what could they do to assist us


----------



## corgi_monster

kyton said:


> Corgi, I think that they must include Australians in this category as well - because in our 27+ trips since 1992, we have never experienced anything other then kindness and friendliness. Even today I got a gorgeous email from our favourite hotel in Waikiki because my husband had a shirt sent there back in March. Due to Covid, our trip was cancelled so the hotel reached out to ask what could they do to assist us



Yes, Hawaii loves Australians.  I credit the accents lol   And the koalas


----------



## bavaria

stagmite said:


> I would say if you redid the poll after July 31st, you'll get a different response. Unless you're just polling retired or rich people in which case keep out the tourist for as long as possible because now you don't have to share the beaches with anybody else. Those with dwindled life savings trying to decide if they should use their lower unemployment checks to pay for food or rent will have a very different set of priorities soon enough.


Certainly reading other websites with more locals posting, the tone is very different from here. The situation is presented as far more dire elsewhere, and more aligned with what other tourism dependent markets are facing.

The challenge, as noted, is that giving only short advance notice for any change in plan will not result in immediate new bookings. I had a discussion today on the subject of a potential Japan bubble to Hawaii. The Japanese government is offering up to 20,000 Yen per day for domestic travel. Anyone who has travelled in Japan will understand the power of domestic travel in that country. So hopes for the Japanese market to return to Hawaii should be considered fairly low in the near future, with the exception of those who decide not to cancel already booked trips. The longer the period drags on without a decision, the more likely it will be that the Japanese cancel and book a domestic trip.

The other option is to expand the bubble to 'safe' feeder markets ie Australia/NZ, and to British Columbia. However, again the lead time to book a Hawaiian vacation is generally longer and it is not for most of you a spur of the moment decision. (I noted above that I recently flew from Japan to HI, which was just a weekend detour and quite common amongst my circle but not something most people do) And those places have their own challenges ie quarantine on return, discouraging travel, etc.

The reality is that any decision once made will have a ramp up time to see any significant benefits.


----------



## montreid

bavaria said:


> The reality is that any decision once made will have a ramp up time to see any significant benefits.


Tell that to Vegas.   Somewhat surprised there, but very different cohort between a Vegas tourist and Hawaiian tourist.    But the same concept.  There is no other Hawaii either.


----------



## anabelle

I am a teacher and we moved our trip to August 9th.  That is the week before I have to report back.  We have eight of us so it is not an easy rebook.   My son and his wife have already said that if it is not Hawaii, they will not come with us.   That means trying to get refunds from the airlines.   They can't afford to have that much money tied up without using it.  I am going to give it until the end of this week to decide.  I have heard that the governor might outline a plan by the end of this week.   I know we are all pretty organized planners on this site, so this kind of unknown is maddening.   I have a feeling that he will not open it up to mainland visitors until September and even then require testing.  
Ana


----------



## MickeyD

corgi_monster said:


> Is it ethical? My personal opinion is that it's not. I think the travel bubble idea plays into a lot of racist stereotypes people in Hawaii have such as Asians being respectful and rich while Americans are well . . . "ugly Americans". More importantly, you don't bite the hand that feeds you.



Now I am confused. Last I checked Hawaii is part of America, so wouldn't that mean those living there are also "ugly Americans?" I find this very offensive and personally the last few times I have been to Hawaii I have felt they are trying to extricate themselves from the USA. If they want to be the "Sovereign state of Hawaii" so be it, but quit holding your hands out wanting OUR government to bail you out! Seems to me the US has sent quite a pile of money in the CARE act and for unemployment. They don't seem to be shunning that, but they don't want us "mainlanders" coming in and "soiling" their territory? Geesh! And corgi-monster, I am using third person here so you know I am not attacking you, I know you have been supportive and non-biased.


----------



## SeanCLV

montreid said:


> Tell that to Vegas.   Somewhat surprised there, but very different cohort between a Vegas tourist and Hawaiian tourist.    But the same concept.  There is no other Hawaii either.



As a resident of the Las Vegas Valley I am surprised too. Apparently there are a lot more people showing up than they had planned. On the other side of the coin there are apparently less workers coming back to work than needed because they are making more on unemployment than they would going back to work, or are afraid of getting sick, as apparently there is a shortage of rideshare and cab drivers. Notice I used the word "apparently" a lot as this is all stuff i've seen on social media, no hard data.



MickeyD said:


> Now I am confused. Last I checked Hawaii is part of America, so wouldn't that mean those living there are also "ugly Americans?" I find this very offensive and personally the last few times I have been to Hawaii I have felt they are trying to extricate themselves from the USA. If they want to be the "Sovereign state of Hawaii" so be it, but quit holding your hands out wanting OUR government to bail you out! Seems to me the US has sent quite a pile of money in the CARE act and for unemployment. They don't seem to be shunning that, but they don't want us "mainlanders" coming in and "soiling" their territory? Geesh! And corgi-monster, I am using third person here so you know I am not attacking you, I know you have been supportive and non-biased.



One inconsistency I cited to Hawaiian Airlines (HA) when requesting a refund via letter was that there was an annual Hawaiian cultural festival to be held in Hilo in April and up until last week there was a message on the HA website (I took a screenshot of it) saying that anyone who purchased airfare for the purpose of traveling to that festival was entitled to a full refund. So for anyone traveling to that festival (arguably mostly locals), they were entitled to a full refund in advance of the cancelled festival, no questions. I just wish they treated all of their customers equally.   And yes, I know that HA isn't state run, but they obviously coordinate very closely with the Hawaiian State government on policies and decisions.


----------



## bavaria

montreid said:


> Tell that to Vegas.   Somewhat surprised there, but very different cohort between a Vegas tourist and Hawaiian tourist.    But the same concept.  There is no other Hawaii either.


Hawaii is though a destination where more people plan and book things ahead. Few people except frequent return visitors just board a plan with little advance notice and wing it when they land. And as another poster noted, if businesses are not open, or have gone out of business, or are waiting until more travel returns, the options may be more limited.

For those who are fine with a trip with no commitments, then it could work. But for those who want to plan ahead, see everything because they may never return to Hawaii in future, they may decide to postpone to a later time when the full experience has returned. That especially holds true for those coming from further distances ie Japan, Australia, etc.

For me, sure I would hop a flight to Kauai with zero plans, or Oahu, if I could in July or August. The hypothetical Kauai trip would probably be pretty 'normal' for me if parks and beaches are fully open. The hypothetical Oahu trip would probably be 'ok', but I would expect many businesses not to be open.


----------



## CaliAdventurer

My brother just sent me an email from a friend there in Honolulu. The bill for being on a ventilator due to covid - over $1M.


----------



## Galun

https://www.civilbeat.org/2020/06/experts-test-passengers-to-reopen-hawaii-tourism/
This is an interview today or yesterday with the lieutenant governor.  Looks like July 15 reopen is a likely scenario.  Gotta get tested at a designated CVS a couple days before departure, temperature screen at arrival to the airport, contact tracing forms filled out and on record In case they need to find you.  If you do that then no mandatory 14 day quarantine. That’s the system a lot of Asian countries currently use.

So, if they have been negotiating with CVS to put an infrastructure in place, maybe they are not as incompetent as previously thought.  Anyways will look forward to announcements next week.


----------



## jenmiller114

Galun said:


> https://www.civilbeat.org/2020/06/experts-test-passengers-to-reopen-hawaii-tourism/
> This is an interview today or yesterday with the lieutenant governor.  Looks like July 15 reopen is a likely scenario.  Gotta get tested at a designated CVS a couple days before departure, temperature screen at arrival to the airport, contact tracing forms filled out and on record In case they need to find you.  If you do that then no mandatory 14 day quarantine. That’s the system a lot of Asian countries currently use.
> 
> So, if they have been negotiating with CVS to put an infrastructure in place, maybe they are not as incompetent as previously thought.  Anyways will look forward to announcements next week.



I read a similar article this morning about the CVS thing possibly being in place by July 15.  The big question is who pays for the test.  I am not opposed to it except that I have a family of 5 that adds a pretty steep price tag to my trip at $120/person.  They said its possible they could use CARES money to help with the cost.  Or even the savings in unemployment if a lot of people can go back to work.  At this point, I am just glad to see a small glimmer of hope.  Not that it helps with my July 1 reservations.  But I am trying to book some alternate arrangements for end of July just in case they can get it figured out.


----------



## Galun

jenmiller114 said:


> I read a similar article this morning about the CVS thing possibly being in place by July 15.  The big question is who pays for the test.  I am not opposed to it except that I have a family of 5 that adds a pretty steep price tag to my trip at $120/person.  They said its possible they could use CARES money to help with the cost.  Or even the savings in unemployment if a lot of people can go back to work.  At this point, I am just glad to see a small glimmer of hope.  Not that it helps with my July 1 reservations.  But I am trying to book some alternate arrangements for end of July just in case they can get it figured out.



It looks like state level interaction with CVS.  So hopefully there is a special rate for traveling to Hawaii and perhaps covered by insurance.  A friend of mine got covid testing before elective surgery.  The doctor ordered the test and it was covered by insurance.  Not exactly equating leisure travel with elective surgery, but they are both discretionary.


----------



## VandVsmama

$120 for a test like that is steep.  For our family of 4, that basically adds $480 to the cost of the trip.  For us, that's just not worth it for a week's stay in Hawaii.  I can go to Florida or CA instead for a week and not have to get tested, fill out contact tracing forms, have my every move out of the hotel/condo tracked and followed by hotel/condo employees, etc.  There are MANY other beach communities in the continental US which would be so much easier to get to and deal with than that.

It's frustrating!


----------



## SeanCLV

So for my late July trip, i'll go get my test at CVS a few days before. Then on the day of the flight after testing negative, i'll go McCarran airport here in Las Vegas and co-mingle in the terminal with all of the tourists who have been co-mingling with each other in the various hotels and casinos on the strip who haven't been tested (since Vegas is open) before hopping on a plane where I will co-mingle with everyone on the plane, where we will all hop off in Honolulu to co-mingle at our various destinations.  I guess if everyone is 100% compliant with wearing masks it could be ok, but still sounds risky.

But hey if Hawaiian Airlines doesn't want to give me my money back, it might be a risk I might have to take. If any locals complain about me being there, i'll direct them to the HA "Contact Us" web page, heck perhaps I can even get t-shirts printed up for my family saying we're there because Hawaiian Airlines wouldn't refund my money. For the people there helping me who don't mind me being there, guilt tipping galore! /S


----------



## BriarRabbit

Kauai cancels the Sept 6 marathon.


----------



## kverdon

I can see that they are trying to put on a show of doing something so they all don’t get voted out of office in Nov. It is not a very good solution when you look at it.
The only way for it to be effective would be to be tested just before you get on the plane and then quarantined before you fly. All the other passengers and crew would also have to do the same. Doing the test 3 days before you fly and then going into a crowded airport, TSA etc, well you were negative 3 days ago... You combine this with the type of testing they are likely to do which has up to a 20% false negative rate and the efficacy of this idea has to come into question. I read they are looking at subsidizing the cost of the testing using some Federal recovery money.


----------



## SeanCLV

kverdon said:


> I can see that they are trying to put on a show of doing something so they all don’t get voted out of office in Nov. It is not a very good solution when you look at it.
> The only way for it to be effective would be to be tested just before you get on the plane and then quarantined before you fly. All the other passengers and crew would also have to do the same. Doing the test 3 days before you fly and then going into a crowded airport, TSA etc, well you were negative 3 days ago... You combine this with the type of testing they are likely to do which has up to a 20% false negative rate and the efficacy of this idea has to come into question. I read they are looking at subsidizing the cost of the testing using some Federal recovery money.



I saw a video from the HI Lieutenant Governor the other day where he was discussing his Travel with Aloha plan or whatever he's calling it to open up the state. He seems to the only one in the administration aggressively pushing a plan (at least publicly) to get things going again, and he's been pushing this plan since May.  So I sort of take his ambition to get everything in place in a month and to get support from the rest of the state government with a grain of salt.


----------



## SinCityMMAFan

Mandatory 14 day quarantine for out of state visitors has just been extended to July 31st.


----------



## montreid

https://www.staradvertiser.com/2020...officials-discuss-hawaii-coronavirus-updates/
Nuts.   Turtle Bay resort out.   Aulani still possible


----------



## NJ Mets fan

SinCityMMAFan said:


> Mandatory 14 day quarantine for out of state visitors has just been extended to July 31st.


Glad I made the right call. Was supposed to arrive at Aulani on July 10th but canceled my flights and reservations today not wanting to wait on their Gov to make an announcement.  I jumped on one of the few decent houses left in OBX, NC last night. House rentals there started going fast last week after they opened back up with people not wanting to fly.  Had I waited until now I would have been screwed.  I feel bad for the people of Hawaii that are suffering without jobs.  I also feel bad that those waiting for their Aulani reservations after July 31 in August since they will have to wait likely another month before they learn if the quarantine is suspended.  It feels better that I moved on.


----------



## kverdon

Yeah as much as we wanted to go it is so good to have it finally over with. Now onto Plan B July 4th to the 11th at AKL Kidani. We booked both so we’d have a backup plan.


----------



## VandVsmama

SeanCLV said:


> I saw a video from the HI Lieutenant Governor the other day where he was discussing his Travel with Aloha plan or whatever he's calling it to open up the state. He seems to the only one in the administration aggressively pushing a plan (at least publicly) to get things going again, and he's been pushing this plan since May.  So I sort of take his ambition to get everything in place in a month and to get support from the rest of the state government with a grain of salt.



I saw the same video!  I'm tired of their messing around and continuing as is.  Our Hawaii trip was supposed to be at the end of this month and we rescheduled it to early March of next year.  But after seeing that video and reading another news article about his proposed plan with CVS Pharmacy and the $120 tests and all that, my sister (who's supposed to go with us) basically said what DH & I were thinking, which was "No way am I getting any sort of lab test just to go on a one week vacation. Forget it."

So we aren't going.  Time to cancel our airline tickets!  I think that we'll be going to WDW early next summer instead now.  Maybe we'll go to Hawaii a few years from now once they've figured out what the heck they want to do.


----------



## BlueRibbon

Sorry if I missed it somewhere, but how do we know that the tests that HI approves of are $120? I'm planning to go in October, but for my family of 7 that's a crazy "incidental" cost.


----------



## kverdon

It’s all conjecture at this point currently that is price set by CVS. If it flies, some or all of it may be subsidized by the Hawaiian Gov’t. The Lt. Gov and the Gov don’t appear to be on the same page. There was some thinking that they could use federal recovery funds to subsidize the cost. But given the disconnect if you are planning to go to Hawaii:

a) Plan to go somewhere else no chance they get this sorted out any time soon. Any decision before a vaccine or the November Elections could be better predicted with a Quija Board.

b) Plan on your tax dollars paying to fund their indecision.


----------



## Galun

SinCityMMAFan said:


> Mandatory 14 day quarantine for out of state visitors has just been extended to July 31st.



Thanks for posting this.  I rescheduled everything to the last 2 - 3 weeks of August.


----------



## gregf71

Well, with the official extension today, it sure made our decision about out July 7th arrival easier.  Managed to get a chat session with Hawaiian Airlines tonight and at first they pressed the "future travel voucher" option.  I questioned if our flights were still active because I couldn't find them online for new bookings...highly doubted that they could've been sold out, but possible I suppose.  Suddenly, the HA person came back to me with an apology, telling me that the flights were indeed canceled.  Full refund in process.  Emailed myself the chat session log...which popped onto my Inbox 5 seconds before the flight cancellation email from Hawaiian Airlines arrived.  Amazing timing!


----------



## Halloweenqueen

We have a trip planned for first week of August: split stay Aulani and North Shire. Might lose half if our rental, but cancelling tomorrow. Don’t want to be guinea pigs if they open in August. Highly unlikely now. They should have just called summer off.


----------



## SeanCLV

kverdon said:


> It’s all conjecture at this point currently that is price set by CVS. If it flies, some or all of it may be subsidized by the Hawaiian Gov’t. The Lt. Gov and the Gov don’t appear to be on the same page. There was some thinking that they could use federal recovery funds to subsidize the cost. But given the disconnect if you are planning to go to Hawaii:
> 
> a) Plan to go somewhere else no chance they get this sorted out any time soon. Any decision before a vaccine or the November Elections could be better predicted with a Quija Board.
> 
> b) Plan on your tax dollars paying to fund their indecision.



This testing seems to be an ambitious plan by the Hawaiian Lt Governor.  The guy is in local/state government in HI and doesn't wear a Hawaiian shirt when he speaks on TV, so I am sure his colleagues and constituents don't take him seriously... ;-)


----------



## emilymad

I am sorry for everyone's trips but I guess some information is better than no information.  I am thinking on not planning our trip for next May.  I have no desire to get tested before a vacation and if there is a second wave who knows what will happen.  This was supposed to be our 10th anniversary trip which got canceled this year.  I don't want to plan and cancel another trip.


----------



## SinCityMMAFan

Galun said:


> Thanks for posting this.  I rescheduled everything to the last 2 - 3 weeks of August.



We were scheduled to go in September and moved the condo reservation to next April.  Im still holding the airfare in case the quarantine gets extended into September then Hawaiian must refund for the canceled flight.  Since airfare went down in price if I moved it right now we'll be owed a credit which more than likely wouldn't get used as we don't travel to Hawaii every year.

I do hope they find some system they can all agree upon to open up travel because at this route their shutdown is gonna last longer than the hardest hit areas of the US.


----------



## SeanCLV

gregf71 said:


> Well, with the official extension today, it sure made our decision about out July 7th arrival easier.  Managed to get a chat session with Hawaiian Airlines tonight and at first they pressed the "future travel voucher" option.  I questioned if our flights were still active because I couldn't find them online for new bookings...highly doubted that they could've been sold out, but possible I suppose.  Suddenly, the HA person came back to me with an apology, telling me that the flights were indeed canceled.  Full refund in process.  Emailed myself the chat session log...which popped onto my Inbox 5 seconds before the flight cancellation email from Hawaiian Airlines arrived.  Amazing timing!



That's promising news regarding HA giving money back. If you don't mind me asking, were your tickets originally non-refundable?


----------



## gregf71

SeanCLV said:


> That's promising news regarding HA giving money back. If you don't mind me asking, were your tickets originally non-refundable?



Yes, they were "non-refundable" at the time of purchase.  I just confirmed on my receipt.  As I understand it, the fact that they canceled our flights overrode that status.  Glad I double checked to see if the flights still existed before I started the chat session and pushed back on that fact before settling for the credit for future flights.  Now I just need to cross my fingers that the refund actually processes correctly and in the time described.


----------



## SeanCLV

gregf71 said:


> Yes, they were "non-refundable" at the time of purchase.  I just confirmed on my receipt.  As I understand it, the fact that they canceled our flights overrode that status.  Glad I double checked to see if the flights still existed before I started the chat session and pushed back on that fact before settling for the credit for future flights.  Now I just need to cross my fingers that the refund actually processes correctly and in the time described.



Thanks for that info. It looks like as of all flights out of Las Vegas to Honolulu are cancelled through July 15th. My flights on 7/25 and returning 7/31 still exist, so I guess I have to wait until those flights don't show on their booking system before contacting them. This puts me a little more at ease.


----------



## thanxfornoticin

Seems to be that tough line between protecting their citizens and losing the much-needed tourism dollars (and some of those will be people forced to cancel now who won't bother rebooking and going back in the future).  With yet another extension, and some wild plans for required testing and facial recognition and tracing, we're finally going to give up on our long-awaited first trip to Aulani.  We'll take our $s and spend them someplace else in the US.  At this point, I don't see us rescheduling the chance to visit the islands anytime soon- if ever.  Very disappointing.  But then, the health emergency has caused much heartache and many disappointments.


----------



## dennis99ss

It is absolutely crazy what Hawaii is doing.  They have less cases than a major metropolitan area, in fact they have less cases than the county I live in, but have double the people.  There virus rate is something like 7 10,000's of a percent.  The economy is toast.  There is some thought that the commuter airlines will go under because of the extensions.  But, worst of all, if you get onto the facebook pages of the Gov. and Lt. Gov. as well as comments to news articles, Hawaii news now, etc., you see people absolutely freaking out because there were 3, or 6, or some other single digit reporting of a new case.  The hospitals are not overrun.  The Hawaiian government has done a fine job in scarring the living daylights out of their people that they are willing to have 50% unemployment on some islands because of an unfounded fear.  The "Plan" to reopen--makes no sense--testing before you arrive?  well, what about getting exposed during the days between the test and your getting on a plane and or arriving.  What about exposure in the plane, in the hotel, etc.  Hawaii is digging a hole that in all likelihood will take a long time to pull out of.  They will have lost an entire season of travelers by the time they pull their heads out.  They will have a budget deficit that is outrageous and worst of all, the train from the airport still wont be built.   In the meantime, their tourist infrastructure -- shops, tours, hotels, restaurants, etc., will have disappeared because of bankruptcy or other financial reasons.  The tourists will have found new destinations in the year, which will cause additional issues in the future for the state.  There are a fair amount of folks in Hawaii that say good riddance to the tourists.  However, I don't think they have run into the economic calamity that may befall the state once the PPP runs out, unemployment increases run out, etc.  Come the third and fourth quarters of this year, I think Hawaii will be hurting and there will be a full on revolt by the out of work majority, and, of course, wondering why those millions and millions of tourists who used to come by the hundreds of thousands each day are not coming anymore.


----------



## VandVsmama

dennis99ss said:


> It is absolutely crazy what Hawaii is doing.  They have less cases than a major metropolitan area, in fact they have less cases than the county I live in, but have double the people.  There virus rate is something like 7 10,000's of a percent.  The economy is toast.  There is some thought that the commuter airlines will go under because of the extensions.  But, worst of all, if you get onto the facebook pages of the Gov. and Lt. Gov. as well as comments to news articles, Hawaii news now, etc., you see people absolutely freaking out because there were 3, or 6, or some other single digit reporting of a new case.  The hospitals are not overrun.  The Hawaiian government has done a fine job in scarring the living daylights out of their people that they are willing to have 50% unemployment on some islands because of an unfounded fear.  The "Plan" to reopen--makes no sense--testing before you arrive?  well, what about getting exposed during the days between the test and your getting on a plane and or arriving.  What about exposure in the plane, in the hotel, etc.  Hawaii is digging a hole that in all likelihood will take a long time to pull out of.  They will have lost an entire season of travelers by the time they pull their heads out.  They will have a budget deficit that is outrageous and worst of all, the train from the airport still wont be built.   In the meantime, their tourist infrastructure -- shops, tours, hotels, restaurants, etc., will have disappeared because of bankruptcy or other financial reasons.  The tourists will have found new destinations in the year, which will cause additional issues in the future for the state.  There are a fair amount of folks in Hawaii that say good riddance to the tourists.  However, I don't think they have run into the economic calamity that may befall the state once the PPP runs out, unemployment increases run out, etc.  Come the third and fourth quarters of this year, I think Hawaii will be hurting and there will be a full on revolt by the out of work majority, and, of course, wondering why those millions and millions of tourists who used to come by the hundreds of thousands each day are not coming anymore.



I totally agree.  All of their shenanigans have left our family with absolutely zero desire to go to Hawaii for a couple of years.


----------



## gregf71

Well, we are not going to Hawaii this year, but we are looking to bringing a little of Hawaii to us!  Scoping out a few of our favorite Hawaiian vendor sites to place some orders.  Hawaiian sweet bread and honey from the Big Island will be nice!


----------



## Halloweenqueen

Yes, I ordered so Kona and Aulani coffe from Joffrey’s to ease the pain.


----------



## dennis99ss

We have used bigislandcandies for gift baskets and the like in the past.


----------



## Memorymakerfor4

We finally pulled the plug on our August trip and cancelled. I was already 99% there in my mind but couldn't bring myself to do it until we heard the announcement yesterday. We have no desire to be the guinea pigs for the first wave of travelers anywhere, not just Hawaii. We'll let the enthusiasts work out those bugs!

I've had conflicting emotions about pushback against tourists, but when I spoke to actual people today who were helping me cancel, we've had really nice conversations. It was a good reminder to look at the individual and not lump everyone into the actions of a few. One woman and I talked for 5 minutes longer than we had to, she was so nice. She was very surprised about yesterday's announcement and sounded worried. Best of luck to everyone. I'm not sure when we'll go back, next year's trips are already planned and I'm eying the Caribbean for sometime in the future.


----------



## corgi_monster

I think the quarantine will be extended indefinitely at this point.  The news we're all anxious for is some sort of announcement on how to obtain a quarantine exemption and when that program will start. 

The state has been working on the CVS testing plan for a while now.  It doesn't make sense for them to spend all that time and energy on a testing program only to drop the quarantine in 1-2 months. 



Memorymakerfor4 said:


> I've had conflicting emotions about pushback against tourists, but when I spoke to actual people today who were helping me cancel, we've had really nice conversations.



The pushback is concentrated against those who are knowingly breaking the quarantine.  Hawaii has a lot of aloha for considerate tourists like yourself who respect the quarantine requirement.  



gregf71 said:


> Well, we are not going to Hawaii this year, but we are looking to bringing a little of Hawaii to us!  Scoping out a few of our favorite Hawaiian vendor sites to place some orders.  Hawaiian sweet bread and honey from the Big Island will be nice!



A Made in Hawaii marketplace website will be launching mid-August and will feature 100's of vendors.  The Made in Hawaii Festival is Hawaii's largest local shopping event, attracting 50k+ people, and it's going virtual this year.  You can find more info and a list of potential vendors at www.madeinhawaiifestival.com


----------



## stagmite

Moshi737 said:


> Okay, thank you for the information. I see resident inter island travel as being a separate matter to foreign travel into Hawaii. They are not one in the same. Combined, yes home run case. Separately, not so much.



Well it finally happened. I guess we'll see soon enough how far his powers of authority can go.

https://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/news/2020/06/10/law-firm-files-lawsuit-against-ige.html


----------



## Bdchili

So here is a question I would love to know the answer of:  If you arrive on the last day of the mandated 14 day quarantine period....do you quarantine for 24 hours or 14 days? 

Scenerio: you arrive on July 31st and the quarantine window is no longer enforced on August 1st.

If anyone gets insight on how that would really work, please comment.


----------



## SoCalGoofy

Bdchili said:


> So here is a question I would love to know the answer of:  If you arrive on the last day of the mandated 14 day quarantine period....do you quarantine for 24 hours or 14 days?
> 
> Scenerio: you arrive on July 31st and the quarantine window is no longer enforced on August 1st.
> 
> If anyone gets insight on how that would really work, please comment.


If you arrive on July 31, you get a 14 day quarantine (or the duration of your stay, whichever is shorter).

(For now) If you arrive on Aug. 1, go enjoy your vacation!

This is why hotels likely won't open until the order is lifted... they don't want to have to enforce this policy (and no one will go there while it's in effect).


----------



## SinCityMMAFan

https://www.kitv.com/story/42234469...it?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter_KITV4
Vacation rental owners getting in on the action now too.  Talking about a possible $1 billion dollar lawsuit.


----------



## stagmite

SinCityMMAFan said:


> https://www.kitv.com/story/42234469...it?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter_KITV4
> Vacation rental owners getting in on the action now too.  Talking about a possible $1 billion dollar lawsuit.



Yup, this July 31st extension has finally broken the camels back.


----------



## SinCityMMAFan

stagmite said:


> Yup, this July 31st extension has finally broken the camels back.


Those people who own those units are hurting really bad.  It costs a fortune to own and maintain those units.  I don't blame them at all.


----------



## Sepo

I can grasp the quarantine extension but they need to speed ahead with the exception protocol, whatever it may be.

Testing me and my family is fine for me. I would never want to be an asymptomatic carrier and bring it to the islands. Heck, even test me again on arrival and force me to quarantine for 2 days pending those results.

Just give us something reasonable to consider.


----------



## SinCityMMAFan

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2020/...ark-top-waikiki-is-pandemics-latest-casualty/
You know it's very bad when a restaurant who had been operating for 55 years won't be re-opening it's doors.   Up to 25% of all restaurants statewide could be shutting down because of this shutdown according to this article.  Such a shame.


----------



## stagmite

SinCityMMAFan said:


> https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2020/...ark-top-waikiki-is-pandemics-latest-casualty/
> You know it's very bad when a restaurant who had been operating for 55 years won't be re-opening it's doors.   Up to 25% of all restaurants statewide could be shutting down because of this shutdown according to this article.  Such a shame.


 
Saving lives vs livelihoods. So far the Hawaiian government is at the extreme end of the spectrum.


----------



## Galun

stagmite said:


> Saving lives vs livelihoods. So far the Hawaiian government is at the extreme end of the spectrum.



Not a lot of livelihoods needed to be saved at this point, since tourism workers receive enhanced federal unemployment.    Of course, small business owners are decimated.  But the government don't seem to care about them. 

Most state leadership seemed to have figured out that the virus spread can't really be stopped, and the economy cannot be shut down indefinitely until a vaccine is developed.  Part of the time bought at enormous cost to the economy was in building temporary surge hospital capacity.  And that's for states that's not even dependent on tourism.

So far the time bought from shutting down the Hawaiian economy seemed to be spent on bureaucratic theoretical debate on risk.  For a state that's dependent on tourism, they sure are taking their sweet time debating (not even executing) on a way to allow people to visit.  It'd be laughable if it weren't so tragic.


----------



## montreid

Hawaii is one of very few states doing quite well with covid.....so what they are trying to accomplishing is working...hard to argue that.

Things may change when subsidies change and the local pocketbooks start really hurting to start forcing open tourism channels.   But it's not there yet.

From other states opening up early...they are seeing 2nd peak and straining the health systems.  If anyone has been to Hawaii and had to access healthcare.... It's not much to put a strain on it.


----------



## stagmite

montreid said:


> Hawaii is one of very few states doing quite well with covid.....so what they are trying to accomplishing is working...hard to argue that.
> 
> Things may change when subsidies change and the local pocketbooks start really hurting to start forcing open tourism channels.   But it's not there yet.
> 
> From other states opening up early...they are seeing 2nd peak and straining the health systems.  If anyone has been to Hawaii and had to access healthcare.... It's not much to put a strain on it.



No one is arguing that they didn't accomplish stamping down COVID. What we are saying is that once that mission was accomplished they should have began pivoting to start saving livelihoods next. Instead they just sat back and let all the businesses struggling to hang on in limbo without giving any clear direction or timelines so that they could plan appropriately. Now you are starting to see what that period of inaction is creating. The government in my opinion was short sighted thinking they could stall until July 31st because all the unemployed had an extra $600. What they don't seem to realize or care is that small businesses can't wait until July 31st. The PPP money helps, but it will only buffer you for a short while. You have a window of opportunity to make as much money as possible once things open up due to the pent up demand, but eventually the demand will decrease because COVID still exist so consumer confidence is still low. So the money that you made during that window along with the PPP money will now help a small business weather the storm until this all passes over which could take a year or so. 

Hawaii is a tourist industry and right now there is pent up demand for vacationing this summer, however if Hawaii isn't opened up in time for peak vacation season then that pent up demand will be spent elsewhere. So now Hawaii small businesses basically spent all their PPP money just to pay the bills and their employees while things are still shut down making them no revenue, they miss out on peak vacationing season, and if they do eventually open up it will be during low season with alot less business and you can see how it is now game over for the Hawaiian economy as more and more small business shut their doors for good. And all those people that were getting unemployment until July 31st will now not have a job to go back to. This will then cause a domino effect as this will drain what little the Hawaii government has for unemployment insurance causing them to borrow more money, which will then cause them to eventually have to cut jobs which would then take even more money out of the Hawaii economy which would then further kill more businesses which would then reduce tax collection which would lead to more job losses which would then.....so on and so on. 

Things will only get worse for the people of Hawaii not better if you can not learn to live with COVID. The curve was flat sometime in mid April, and Hawaii should have had a plan ready by that point to be implemented within the next few weeks. Instead it's now two months later and there is still no plan, no direction, no answers, and more promises of things that they are working on and told us about since months ago but when the heck are they actually going to implement it? They keep talking about this increase testing and contact tracing nonstop for months, but have they done it? Nope still nothing, and now this new plan is more of the same. All talk with no action until it is too late.


----------



## VandVsmama

stagmite said:


> No one is arguing that they didn't accomplish stamping down COVID. What we are saying is that once that mission was accomplished they should have began pivoting to start saving livelihoods next. Instead they just sat back and let all the businesses struggling to hang on in limbo without giving any clear direction or timelines so that they could plan appropriately. Now you are starting to see what that period of inaction is creating. The government in my opinion was short sighted thinking they could stall until July 31st because all the unemployed had an extra $600. What they don't seem to realize or care is that small businesses can't wait until July 31st. The PPP money helps, but it will only buffer you for a short while. You have a window of opportunity to make as much money as possible once things open up due to the pent up demand, but eventually the demand will decrease because COVID still exist so consumer confidence is still low. So the money that you made during that window along with the PPP money will now help a small business weather the storm until this all passes over which could take a year or so.
> 
> Hawaii is a tourist industry and right now there is pent up demand for vacationing this summer, however if Hawaii isn't opened up in time for peak vacation season then that pent up demand will be spent elsewhere. So now Hawaii small businesses basically spent all their PPP money just to pay the bills and their employees while things are still shut down making them no revenue, they miss out on peak vacationing season, and if they do eventually open up it will be during low season with alot less business and you can see how it is now game over for the Hawaiian economy as more and more small business shut their doors for good. And all those people that were getting unemployment until July 31st will now not have a job to go back to. This will then cause a domino effect as this will drain what little the Hawaii government has for unemployment insurance causing them to borrow more money, which will then cause them to eventually have to cut jobs which would then take even more money out of the Hawaii economy which would then further kill more businesses which would then reduce tax collection which would lead to more job losses which would then.....so on and so on.
> 
> Things will only get worse for the people of Hawaii not better if you can not learn to live with COVID. The curve was flat sometime in mid April, and Hawaii should have had a plan ready by that point to be implemented within the next few weeks. Instead it's now two months later and there is still no plan, no direction, no answers, and more promises of things that they are working on and told us about since months ago but when the heck are they actually going to implement it? They keep talking about this increase testing and contact tracing nonstop for months, but have they done it? Nope still nothing, and now this new plan is more of the same. All talk with no action until it is too late.



I agree.  The whole situation is a mess and it'll be a bloodbath for the Hawaiian economy for years to come.


----------



## Sepo

Wishful thinking maybe but it’s something to ponder.

Last sentence: “Depending on how quickly the state moves to implement a plan, the new exceptions could be in place as soon as mid-July.”

https://www.kitv.com/story/42238710/state-weighs-reopening-tourism-by-testing-travelers-for-covid19


----------



## Sun_soakin

stagmite said:


> You can only go unemployed for so long even with the government stimulus. Personally I believe that there won't even be jobs for them to come back to if this extends into the summer. Alot of small businesses will probably go under. The government stimulus has a caveat that you have to use the money within 8 weeks after receiving it and 75% of it must go towards payroll in order for 75% of the total loan is forgiven. I got my PPP money early this week, so in a way I'm kind of lucky for not getting it during the first round when my state was on lock down. My business will be open this week so I can actually use that stimulus money for what it is intended for which is my employees. For the small businesses in Hawaii I feel sorry for them. You can't delay receipt of the money, so the 8 week clock begins as soon as you have received it. Since their businesses are closed they can't really pay their employees with it, so all they can do is pay for the rent and utilities with that money. However since 75% of that isn't going towards payroll you will eventually have to pay all that money back so a small business is just digging themselves into another debt hole.



You can give people a paycheck with that money even if your business isn’t open. In fact, I thought that was the whole point.


----------



## montreid

stagmite said:


> No one is arguing that they didn't accomplish stamping down COVID. What we are saying is that once that mission was accomplished they should have began pivoting to start saving livelihoods next.
> All talk with no action until it is too late.


The testing and tracing actually is working.  My frustration like yours is that they haven't been scaled for tourism influx and that's their miscue.  Instead they are looking for solutions outside of Hawaii -- pretesting and lower COVID rates from outside to allow onto the islands.  

People still can visit Hawaii.  It's just a robust quarantine time.  If we had 2 months to blow for the summer,  we would consider it as a rental unit probably can be had for a song right now.  

We canceled our first week and still keeping Aug1-10 for now but already have DLR plans in place for end of Aug to get our disney fix.   Will be happy to get back to the islands when they decide it's right for them to reopen.


----------



## ksromack

MickeyD said:


> I think what he is referring to is that the CARE act money runs out mid July and people will start getting antsy to get back to work?


I understand!


SeanCLV said:


> We have a vacation planned for Aulani in late July. I wish that a) the governor would offer more specific guidance instead of just saying he is extending the quarantine past June 30th, and b) that the policies of their major air carrier which transports tourists into the state, Hawaiian Airlines, would match the wants of the governor and the people of the state.
> 
> I am concerned our trip will fall in this weird administrative limbo where the people of the state won't want me there, but things will be officially 'open' although limited. Where if I don't want to go I don't get my money back. I have tried getting a refund from HA and of course they aren't willing to give my money back at this point, just a credit.  But who knows what the value of that credit will be in the future, will they go bankrupt, will fares go up drastically in an attempt to save their business? So the only certain thing right now is it appears that I will be giving HA an interest-free loan going into the future...


This was most definitely my concern regarding refunds and HA.  I did get a refund (our trip was supposed to be May 25-June 1), I had to push to get it.  Incidently, my refund came about 3 days after it being granted.


NJ Mets fan said:


> Here's my dilemma.  I'm scheduled to go July 10th and I borrowed all my points (200) from 2021 for this trip.  If I cancel now before the quarantine is extended will all my points stay in 2020?  I have a Feb use year.  I caught a break over the weekend when United canceled my direct flights from Newark to Honolulu and rescheduled me on connecting flights so per the FAA if I request a refund they have to honor it.   I want to book a different vacation but I'm in this lousy holding pattern because Gov Ige won't give us some more definitive guidance.  The longer I wait to book something else, my options (non-Disney) dry up or go up in price.  I can take the gamble and book another vacation hoping Disney has to cancel me if the quarantine is extended which will return my points into the use years they came from but it would be several thousand dollars I could lose.  Thanks for any feedback!


I thought if you borrowed points from the next year those points would be returned to that year....however, as in our case, we borrowed from our April Use year.  If we wanted to reschedule for Feb 2021 we would only have been able to borrow 50% of those points.  This caused me to postpone our trip to May 2021, exactly a year from our original date.  However, now I am thinking we will either take a cruise in the fall of 2021 or go back to Europe instead.


Galun said:


> https://www.civilbeat.org/2020/06/experts-test-passengers-to-reopen-hawaii-tourism/
> This is an interview today or yesterday with the lieutenant governor.  Looks like July 15 reopen is a likely scenario.  Gotta get tested at a designated CVS a couple days before departure, temperature screen at arrival to the airport, contact tracing forms filled out and on record In case they need to find you.  If you do that then no mandatory 14 day quarantine. That’s the system a lot of Asian countries currently use.
> 
> So, if they have been negotiating with CVS to put an infrastructure in place, maybe they are not as incompetent as previously thought.  Anyways will look forward to announcements next week.


I'm assuming these tests would be checking for antibodies or actual virus?  Antibody testing hasn't proven to be very accurate at this point.


----------



## Sepo

They would be direct virus tests. Also less than great but better than nothing. Using a commercial vendor adds a perceived layer of uniformity.

There are different labs and operator differences and we’ve had patients test negative but then positive on repeat. If the swab didn’t make you want to kill the tester, they didn’t do it right. It needs to really get into your nasopharynx to be accurate.


----------



## JM23457

ksromack said:


> I'm assuming these tests would be checking for antibodies or actual virus?  Antibody testing hasn't proven to be very accurate at this point.


Virus testing also has a substantial false negative rate, unfortunately.


----------



## kverdon

The standard Viaral Covid PCR tests are pretty accurate but the rapid test run between 15-20% false negatives.


----------



## kverdon

sorry, duplicate


----------



## JM23457

kverdon said:


> The standard Viaral Covid PCR tests are pretty accurate but the rapid test run between 15-20% false negative and unfortunately those are the tests that everyone will be using for screening.


No, actually the standard swab & wait days for results tests, can have about a very significant false negative rate, particularly if administered early on.

There are many articles on the topic, but I can't link them, possibly because I'm new here. Look up "covid swab false negative" & check Science Daily, NY Mag, etc.


----------



## montreid

There's going to be a risk regardless of the PCR swab (most have clinical sensitivity of ~90%).   As others have mentioned, getting this 1-3 days prior still doesn't mean walking through the grocery store/uber/airport/airplane/rental that one won't catch Covid between the swab and landing in Hawaii.   It certainly reduces the risk from self-reported 'i'm okay'+temperature check and between the 14 day quarantine mandate.


----------



## kverdon

JM23457 said:


> No, actually the standard swab & wait days for results tests, can have about a very significant false negative rate, particularly if administered early on.
> 
> There are many articles on the topic, but I can't link them, possibly because I'm new here. Look up "covid swab false negative" & check Science Daily, NY Mag, etc.


I will stand by the statement the normal, non Point of Care Covid-19 PCR,  is pretty accurate. Much more so than anything else. No test is 100% in specificity and sensitivity.


----------



## kverdon

montreid said:


> There's going to be a risk regardless of the PCR swab (most have clinical sensitivity of ~90%).   As others have mentioned, getting this 1-3 days prior still doesn't mean walking through the grocery store/uber/airport/airplane/rental that one won't catch Covid between the swab and landing in Hawaii.   It certainly reduces the risk from self-reported 'i'm okay'+temperature check and between the 14 day quarantine mandate.


You have it dead on. ANY test performed is only valid as to the date and time of of collection. Any perceived status of Covid 19 infection status at any time post 1 minute of collection are pure conjecture unless the tested subject is placed into strict quarantine immediately after collection.   This makes the 72 hr rule a pure crap shoot as to perceived protection. You can get infected walking out the door from being tested that invalidates the whole process. We are seeing a < 2% positivity rate that makes all of this statistically nutso.  You subject 100 people for Reliable testing and 2% may be positive. You test 100 people to rapid testing and  up to 20% may test negative but really be positive. The other problem is getting a reliable PCR result back to the patient in 72 hrs is cutting it a bit fine if you are not talking about an emergent scenario (Vacation Travel does not count). I am still not sure how this all falls under HIPAA. What’s next you have to declare your HIV, Hepatitis, TB etc status before travel?


----------



## mentos

montreid said:


> There's going to be a risk regardless of the PCR swab (most have clinical sensitivity of ~90%).   As others have mentioned, getting this 1-3 days prior still doesn't mean walking through the grocery store/uber/airport/airplane/rental that one won't catch Covid between the swab and landing in Hawaii.   It certainly reduces the risk from self-reported 'i'm okay'+temperature check and between the 14 day quarantine mandate.



I agree, I don't buy that it will substantially dent the COVID rate once Hawaii does open up. Temperature checks can be defeated with Tylenol, COVID testing is imperfect at best, no one in their right mind will check the box "hmmm I don't feel so well today" anywhere, ever.


----------



## kverdon

It certainly does look like there is no practical way that Hawaii can open up tourism and guarantee that they can get a 100% covid free plane load of passengers for each and every flight. The argument that continues to be made is that it  opening things up would overwhelm their HeathCare systems but they don’t appear to be making any moves to beef that up. They have 100’s of millions of dollars that they have received from the gov’t that they are holding onto to pay for more extended unemployment. I’ve not read of any plans for expanding their healthcare to cope. We had to look at tents, convention centers etc for means of handling the surge that never (thankfully) came.


----------



## montreid

I don't believe they want to build up.large infrastructure... temporary or just expansion for long term.   I'm hopeful that they are building up supplies and vents.  They have increased testing and tracing it seems quite well.  

The hard part remains when on opens up....and unknowns and risks ramp up exponentially as well.  Pretesting helps to clamp down the unknown but still a lengthy process until rapid, cheap, accurate point of care testing is readily available.


----------



## cgattis

montreid said:


> I don't believe they want to build up.large infrastructure... temporary or just expansion for long term. I'm hopeful that they are building up supplies and vents.


Why would that be, do you think?  If there is a recognized low capacity for hospital care, why wouldn’t they want to improve that? Especially when so many of their statements have been that their overall strict response has been mostly to protect their elderly?  What am I missing?  Because I definitely don’t understand many parts of their response. (And I’m with you, hopefully they’ve been stocking up.)


----------



## kverdon

A long term investment in strengthening their Healthcare infrastructure has only got to help and prepare them for the next bug to come a calling. They have hundreds of millions of dollars and a quarter of a million unemployed workers. Seems like you could put the two together and build some infrastructure.


----------



## montreid

Hospital planning takes years.  Not only that but industry all shut down too.  Not much can be done in three months unless conversions of existing for surge...which as you tell from NYC not really hugely needed .   

A near term logical play would be to have mercy hospital ship there.  Good negotiation point between fed and state if fed really wants to reopen .


----------



## newdeal

the bottom line is all the testing in the world won't change the fact that people are going to get covid, some people will die from it, most won't, and no one lives forever.  The thing that will allow them to open up is when they realize that you can't protect everyone, and people at risk need to do their best to protect themselves.  Any screening, testing etc etc etc will never be effective.


----------



## montreid

newdeal said:


> no one lives forever.


Tell that to the 117,000 lives cut short by Covid that most likely died alone away from family.   Hawaii had the opportunity to make it safe for their population and have done so.  To date, that's been good enough for them and reopening stages is progressing fast enough for their populace.   

To each state's efforts and desires.   I'm frustrated that it's impacted us, but we completely understand their position and taking it.  

Proof is pretty good -- where most of these are from the initial surge.  

Hawaii

Confirmed
706Recovered
627Deaths
17


When Hawaii is ready to welcome us back, we will be too.   --- hopefully Aug 1!


----------



## newdeal

montreid said:


> Tell that to the 117,000 lives cut short by Covid that most likely died alone away from family.   Hawaii had the opportunity to make it safe for their population and have done so.  To date, that's been good enough for them and reopening stages is progressing fast enough for their populace.
> 
> To each state's efforts and desires.   I'm frustrated that it's impacted us, but we completely understand their position and taking it.
> 
> Proof is pretty good -- where most of these are from the initial surge.
> 
> Hawaii
> 
> Confirmed
> 706Recovered
> 627Deaths
> 17
> 
> 
> When Hawaii is ready to welcome us back, we will be too.   --- hopefully Aug 1!




How many were cut short is the question, most deaths are the extremely old, who would be dying soon regardless of cause.  There were 2.8 million deaths in the USA in 2017, the number will not be 117,000 higher because of covid because many who died of covid would die this year regardless of old age, influenza, stroke, heart attack, dementia, etc.  Hawaii has a population of 1.4 million people...17 have died from covid (or with covid since if you die with covid then they count you even if you died from another cause) in a 3 month time period, of those, most would have died this year anyway.  And this is worth them killing the economy and therefore the livelihoods of the other 1.4million?  Compare 17 in 3 months to this chart https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/states/hawaii/hawaii.htm
it makes no sense.


----------



## stagmite

montreid said:


> Tell that to the 117,000 lives cut short by Covid that most likely died alone away from family.   Hawaii had the opportunity to make it safe for their population and have done so.  To date, that's been good enough for them and reopening stages is progressing fast enough for their populace.
> 
> To each state's efforts and desires.   I'm frustrated that it's impacted us, but we completely understand their position and taking it.
> 
> Proof is pretty good -- where most of these are from the initial surge.
> 
> Hawaii
> 
> Confirmed
> 706Recovered
> 627Deaths
> 17
> 
> 
> When Hawaii is ready to welcome us back, we will be too.   --- hopefully Aug 1!



Hawaii won't be welcoming back tourist because they are ready, they are going to welcome them back because they have no choice. No matter what protocols they implement, unless there is a vaccine you will have spikes and some will probably die. All anyone can do is to limit their risks. If someone is at risk or live with someone at risk then at some point it's that individual's responsibility to protect themselves and their family. Everyone needs to assess their own risk because this virus will be with us and if we cannot learn to live with it then we aren't really going to be living our lives. For those of you that are more noble then me, who want to save every life out there, please do not visit Hawaii or go outside your house because you never know if you may be an asymptomatic carrier. I will concede you are a more altruistic and a better human being then me, but I'm not going to lose sleep over that fact. I will continue to social distance, wear my mask and face guard, wear gloves, carry my hand sanitizer, and keep away from any of my at risk family members. That's about the extent of what I'm willing to do for society going forward such that I don't feel morally conflicted of whether or not I'm doing the right thing by continuing to live my life.


----------



## montreid

stagmite said:


> I will continue to social distance, wear my mask and face guard, wear gloves, carry my hand sanitizer, and keep away from any of my at risk family members. That's about the extent of what I'm willing to do for society going forward such that I don't feel morally conflicted of whether or not I'm doing the right thing by continuing to live my life.


As are we.  We're not shying away from going day 1.    We're ready for July 17th reopening of DLR too and waiting for the reservations to drop, and have DVC reservations for VGC right before Labor day with our APs.  

Just saying that Hawaii is doing what they believe is right for their people, and as visitors, we just have to wait until they welcome us back.


----------



## stagmite

montreid said:


> As are we.  We're not shying away from going day 1.    We're ready for July 17th reopening of DLR too and waiting for the reservations to drop, and have DVC reservations for VGC right before Labor day with our APs.
> 
> Just saying that *Hawaii is doing what they believe is right for their people*, and as visitors, we just have to wait until they welcome us back.



I think this is where I have a hard time agreeing with your points. Who is "Hawaii" that is making the decisions to protect people? Currently right now the life of all the people on the island is in the hands of only a few, and everyone that has to live with their decisions have no say in the decision making process. No one questions that we all want to open up safely, but is those in power really doing what is best for the people? At some point when the economy continues to sink when do we call their actions or in this case inaction just incompetence?


----------



## montreid

stagmite said:


> I think this is where I have a hard time agreeing with your points. Who is "Hawaii" that is making the decisions to protect people? Currently right now the life of all the people on the island is in the hands of only a few, and everyone that has to live with their decisions have no say in the decision making process. No one questions that we all want to open up safely, but is those in power really doing what is best for the people? At some point when the economy continues to sink when do we call their actions or in this case inaction just incompetence?


Like many instances these days - a few folk are making decisions for large populations both at the Federal and State levels.  So -- our President with his cabinet and Governors are the primary actors.    

How do 'we' enact change?  Polls, protests, votes are chief among them.   

In Hawaii :  Recent poll showed continued strong support for the quarantine though the Gov himself isn't really popular.    https://www.civilbeat.org/2020/05/civil-beat-hnn-poll-stop-virus-even-if-economy-crumbles/


----------



## kverdon

To coin a term from the Jungle Cruise, if you think Hawaii can survive without tourism “You are in Da Nile”.


----------



## thanxfornoticin

Sadly, just cancelled our trip for early fall.  It's impossible to plan for anything within 3-6 months for Hawaii right now - no clue when they'll allow visitors in from the US mainland without some crazy quarantine requirements.  No clue what will be the other restrictions once they do 'reopen'.  We'll take our fall vacation money and spend it closer to home instead.  Maybe we'll get a chance to go to Hawaii again in the future.  Maybe not.  I don't really blame the governor for what it appears he's trying to do - we're in a significant health crisis.  But for him to accomplish what he hopes to accomplish, and keep the virus out of Hawaii - they'll be bankrupt until he can reopen to tourism sometime in 2021.  It's going to take time for areas of the country to recover.  Hawaii is going to take much longer.  But I hope they do recover.


----------



## cgattis

thanxfornoticin said:


> to accomplish what he hopes to accomplish, and keep the virus out of Hawaii


Unfortunately the only way to keep it out forever is to institute a permanent incoming quarantine, like they do for animals (120 days). They’ve totally eradicated rabies.  But I think a permanent 14-day quarantine will also nearly totally eradicate tourism as well.  Sorry for everybody affected—the jobs, the cancelled trips, the stress.  I’m just selfishly  hoping it’s back to “normal” by 2022 for our multi-celebration trip.


----------



## montreid

Still holding hope for Aug 1 - have Southwest booked on points so easy out.  
Backup with Disneyland already and Yosemite passes cause I doubt folk will have their act together in time, but still not going to cancel until we have to.


----------



## Sepo

montreid said:


> Still holding hope for Aug 1 - have Southwest booked on points so easy out.
> Backup with Disneyland already and Yosemite passes cause I doubt folk will have their act together in time, but still not going to cancel until we have to.



anything’s possible but if I were a betting man, I think they’ll extend the quarantine but possibly / hopefully have a quarantine exception protocol in place by then- perhaps based on the plan described by the Lt Gov in conjunction w CVS sites. That protocol will not be foolproof of course (for all the reasons discussed earlier) but may offer a window for motivated travelers.


----------



## JM23457

thanxfornoticin said:


> Sadly, just cancelled our trip for early fall.  It's impossible to plan for anything within 3-6 months for Hawaii right now - no clue when they'll allow visitors in from the US mainland without some crazy quarantine requirements.  No clue what will be the other restrictions once they do 'reopen'.


Same here. I'm not putting any money down on a pre-2022 Hawaii trip. For us it's too much to invest & too far to fly, to deal with the uncertainty & restrictions that don't seem to be going away anytime soon. After they reopen, there will be health issues as they'll have lower community immunity levels than mainland U.S. due to their extreme self-imposed isolation. To succeed they'll either need to face reality & begin reopening, or manage to stay locked up until a vaccine is widely available, assuming half the state's population isn't homeless & hungry by that time. Madness.


----------



## montreid

If we want to cast stones --  madness is what is happening in Vegas.   I hold no ill will toward Hawaii or any other country like New Zealand or Taiwan is doing.


----------



## gregf71

gregf71 said:


> Well, with the official extension today, it sure made our decision about out July 7th arrival easier.  Managed to get a chat session with Hawaiian Airlines tonight and at first they pressed the "future travel voucher" option.  I questioned if our flights were still active because I couldn't find them online for new bookings...highly doubted that they could've been sold out, but possible I suppose.  Suddenly, the HA person came back to me with an apology, telling me that the flights were indeed canceled.  Full refund in process.  Emailed myself the chat session log...which popped onto my Inbox 5 seconds before the flight cancellation email from Hawaiian Airlines arrived.  Amazing timing!



A little follow-up with props to Hawaiian Airlines.  When my flight was canceled and they told me a refund was initiated, they said it would take "one to two billing cycles."  I interpreted that to mean 1 to 2 months.  Well, they initiated the refund on Wednesday of last week and the credits appeared on my card yesterday (Sunday evening)!!!  4 days friends...that was impressive!  Mahalo HA!!


----------



## Galun

montreid said:


> If we want to cast stones --  madness is what is happening in Vegas.   I hold no ill will toward Hawaii or any other country like New Zealand or Taiwan is doing.



I think it's just an indication that some (many) states chose the economy over the risk of lives lost due to the coronavirus.  The virus had spread beyond the point of control in the US.  So what do you do at this point - shut down the economy indefinitely which affect the vast majority; or build surge hospital capacity / enforce mitigation measures like masks / social distance as best you can during the shut down, then open up the economy and let those at risk quarantine themselves, and the higher number who get sick will hopefully be handled by the newly expanded capacity? 

Island nations like New Zealand and Taiwan are different. I can understand their isolation and quarantine as they are not dependent on tourism.  Now, Hawaii's biggest economy is tourism.  And during this precious time bought from the shutdown at huge economic cost, AFAIK they had done nothing to expand their capacity to handle the inevitable surge if they open the economy.  It's almost as if they plan on shutting down indefinitely.  Frankly it's mind boggling.


----------



## Galun

JM23457 said:


> Same here. I'm not putting any money down on a pre-2022 Hawaii trip. For us it's too much to invest & too far to fly, to deal with the uncertainty & restrictions that don't seem to be going away anytime soon. After they reopen, there will be health issues as they'll have lower community immunity levels than mainland U.S. due to their extreme self-imposed isolation. To succeed they'll either need to face reality & begin reopening, or manage to stay locked up until a vaccine is widely available, assuming half the state's population isn't homeless & hungry by that time. Madness.



There is a flu vaccine every year.  It's basically a group of scientist's best guess in that year's flu strain.  The average effectiveness is 70%.  The corona virus vaccine, when available, is unlikely to be different.

I have employees who make more on unemployment and unwilling to come back to work.  In a way and in my mind, Hawaii is almost like those employees.  Their tourism based workers are getting federal unemployment till end of July so they are fine for now.  But what's the plan when that money runs out?  Are they banking on a Republican administration bailing out a democratic state when the mainland states had already reopened?  When they inevitably are forced to face reality and reopen, they had already missed the vast majority of the tourist season, and numerous people (me included) had been turned off by how the state handled this.  I do have my trip pushed to August but I am having serious second thoughts on going even if they reopen.  Given how this leadership handled the whole situation, who's to say they won't flip flop and hunt you down to impose a retroactive quarantine?

Absolutely terrible leadership.


----------



## montreid

Galun said:


> I think it's just an indication that some (many) states chose the economy over the risk of lives lost due to the coronavirus.  The virus had spread beyond the point of control in the US.  So what do you do at this point - shut down the economy indefinitely which affect the vast majority; or build surge hospital capacity / enforce mitigation measures like masks / social distance as best you can during the shut down, then open up the economy and let those at risk quarantine themselves, and the higher number who get sick will hopefully be handled by the newly expanded capacity?
> 
> Island nations like New Zealand and Taiwan are different. I can understand their isolation and quarantine as they are not dependent on tourism.  Now, Hawaii's biggest economy is tourism.  And during this precious time bought from the shutdown at huge economic cost, AFAIK they had done nothing to expand their capacity to handle the inevitable surge if they open the economy.  It's almost as if they plan on shutting down indefinitely.  Frankly it's mind boggling.


While not quite the 20% of Hawaii -   New Zealand's tourism accounts for 6% of their total GDP = 17% of their total export earnings.   So it's not small potatoes.  

As pointed out, many service sector unemployment actually is paying better than working; and still doesn't run out for another 6 weeks.  While those states reopened early are now seeing a resurgence, there's going to be increasing pressures to extend existing bailouts at the Fed level.  If this happens,  Hawaii populace may actually continue to make out decently well.   SBOs are shouldering the brunt of this which PPP should have helped but was largely fumbled by the Fed -- some amends done, but still needs shoring up with another round.

All said, infrastructure to support their island appears to have be more robust  in testing and tracing.  The hospital capacity -- that's hard to change and frankly, 1 week stays and folk are gone -- really many infected are going back to their homes -- Vegas is going to reflect this a lot I think and see data in 1-2 weeks on that.


----------



## stagmite

Galun said:


> There is a flu vaccine every year.  It's basically a group of scientist's best guess in that year's flu strain.  The average effectiveness is 70%.  The corona virus vaccine, when available, is unlikely to be different.
> 
> I have employees who make more on unemployment and unwilling to come back to work.  In a way and in my mind, Hawaii is almost like those employees.  Their tourism based workers are getting federal unemployment till end of July so they are fine for now.  But what's the plan when that money runs out?  Are they banking on a Republican administration bailing out a democratic state when the mainland states had already reopened?  When they inevitably are forced to face reality and reopen, they had already missed the vast majority of the tourist season, and numerous people (me included) had been turned off by how the state handled this.  I do have my trip pushed to August but I am having serious second thoughts on going even if they reopen.  Given how this leadership handled the whole situation, who's to say they won't flip flop and hunt you down to impose a retroactive quarantine?
> 
> Absolutely terrible leadership.



I've had a job req out there since mid May, but I can't get a decent candidate to apply. I've recalled all my staff but had to fire one person, so now I'm short one head. Prior to COVID19 when I had a job req open, within a week I had 2-3 strong candidates to hire from. Unfortunately I can't pay better then UI + $600 extra per week so there's not much I can do about it. This $600 extra per week is not helping at all with recovery. If the goal is to keep people at home, then the extra $600 per week makes sense, but if you are trying to recover your economy then that extra money needs to come to an end.


----------



## JoshF

I have a trip planned in early September and wonder if it will happen...


----------



## NHanson521

JoshF said:


> I have a trip planned in early September and wonder if it will happen...


If it is of any consolation, they did just release big discounts of 25-35% for stays starting August 1st! Crossing my fingers...


----------



## Boardwalkin

I am hopeful the new promotion is a sign Aulani will be open in August as we also have a room booked for early September.  Still waiting to book our flights though as we don’t want to tie money up in the airlines as they have not been great about refunds.  I already have credits from a May cancelled trip and don’t need more.


----------



## Mommy2Logan

When we saw the 35% discount they rolled out yesterday we have decided to book for fall. Now we’ve got to decide sept or October.     We are so eager to go that we want to book sept but maybe that’s jumping the gun.    Wondering if they aren’t open by sept if we can apply the discount for a later date?


----------



## cgattis

Mommy2Logan said:


> When we saw the 35% discount they rolled out yesterday we have decided to book for fall. Now we’ve got to decide sept or October.     We are so eager to go that we want to book sept but maybe that’s jumping the gun.    Wondering if they aren’t open by sept if we can apply the discount for a later date?


If you’ve been following any of the WDW reservations “process,” I’d say not to bet on it.  I mean, they might offer it again if they need bookings, but I wouldn’t necessarily expect them to actually extend an offer if they don’t get to open.  So hard to decide when you have to book airfare too, I know


----------



## Dennis DVC

were holding out till aug 21...this covid news is too unpredictable.  my fear of getting caught up in a lock down is too much risk to make it this year


----------



## JM23457

Mommy2Logan said:


> When we saw the 35% discount they rolled out yesterday we have decided to book for fall. Now we’ve got to decide sept or October.     We are so eager to go that we want to book sept but maybe that’s jumping the gun.    Wondering if they aren’t open by sept if we can apply the discount for a later date?


I recommend choosing the latest dates possible. The state isn't even open to tourists yet.

Disney is hoping it will be open, hence the discount, but they don't know for sure. They offered discounts for June for WDW, too, and had tk refund all of those reservations. The same thing could easily happen at Aulani.


----------



## corgi_monster

The quarantine exemption program is expected to be announced soon, so keep checking Hawaii news websites if you have an upcoming vacation.


----------



## hetzeltj

corgi_monster said:


> The quarantine exemption program is expected to be announced soon, so keep checking Hawaii news websites if you have an upcoming vacation.



Care to elaborate on this. a quick google search didnt really come back with anything


----------



## bavaria

This is a sobering read, and outlines why action is needed now to mitigate the forecast losses.  https://uhero.hawaii.edu/wp-content...TheStateGovernmentRestoreFiscalBalance2-1.pdf

Expect also to pay higher accommodation tax, or a proposed $35/night COVID recovery fee, which is an interesting option. Germany actually cut the VAT from 19% to stimulate the economy, and on catering ie food/restaurant sales from 19 to 7%.


----------



## Sepo

hetzeltj said:


> Care to elaborate on this. a quick google search didnt really come back with anything



It is something the Lt Governor has been spearheading. Some optional testing protocol that travelers might take (such as a test at CVS 72 hrs before departure) to then be granted an exception from the otherwise still-in-force 14 d quarantine. 

The main hang ups are: 1) 96 hours may be more reasonable since 72 hrs may not return in time if there is a mainland testing surge, 2) Not enough available resources to test passengers in Hawaii for those who fail to get the test before but still want the exemption; the state’s public health official Sarah Park has sounded the alarm on this, and  3) what to do for travelers who test positive, as it relates to their reservations (not really the state’s problem though).


----------



## corgi_monster

hetzeltj said:


> Care to elaborate on this. a quick google search didnt really come back with anything



Here's a link to the article:  https://www.staradvertiser.com/2020...ouncing-testing-protocol-loosened-quarantine/


----------



## JoshF

bavaria said:


> This is a sobering read, and outlines why action is needed now to mitigate the forecast losses.  https://uhero.hawaii.edu/wp-content...TheStateGovernmentRestoreFiscalBalance2-1.pdf
> 
> Expect also to pay higher accommodation tax, or a proposed $35/night COVID recovery fee, which is an interesting option. Germany actually cut the VAT from 19% to stimulate the economy, and on catering ie food/restaurant sales from 19 to 7%.


Good read here.  Sounds like they want to tax tourists more.  Hawaii is already super expensive. I  wonder at what point the increased taxes will encourage people to spend vacation dollars elsewhere.  Also, how about cutting government spending and making it more efficient...


----------



## bavaria

Some points I thought were interesting:



> Next to more federal aid, responsibly re-opening businesses (including tourism) would begin to restore the state’s fiscal balance. Without substantial tourism recovery—which accounts for 30 to 35 percent of state tax revenues (pre-COVID-19)—it will be impossible to overcome the current fiscal crisis.
> 
> It has been suggested that economic diversification can be a solution to our current economic crisis. It cannot. An economy’s industrial structure tends to change very slowly. It took decades for Hawaii to diversify into tourism from sugar and pineapple production.


 The proposal is about 15% of every hotel and short term rental/AirBNB stay. Or as they propose, start charging people for pickleball lessons.  (I have no idea what that is, but it seems to be a thing for locals, who are already suffering so much) I do agree that the $1 to climb Diamond Head could be increased, and was surprised to see that earlier this year.

But as you note, they have to find the right balance of charging tourists vs locals, and cutting government spending vs relying on aid. If they don't, they risk a significant reduction in revenue from tourism, which  may be a long term goal but will not aid in recovery in the short term.

The longer this goes on, the more likely people are to have already booked summer holiday plans. Even if they announce a plan to reopen on some date in July, for instance, they won't get that much interest. Also, resorts require significant lead time to reopen and prepare.


----------



## Disney_Fan_01

bavaria said:


> Some points I thought were interesting:
> 
> The proposal is about 15% of every hotel and short term rental/AirBNB stay. Or as they propose, start charging people for pickleball lessons.  (I have no idea what that is, but it seems to be a thing for locals, who are already suffering so much) I do agree that the $1 to climb Diamond Head could be increased, and was surprised to see that earlier this year.
> 
> But as you note, they have to find the right balance of charging tourists vs locals, and cutting government spending vs relying on aid. If they don't, they risk a significant reduction in revenue from tourism, which  may be a long term goal but will not aid in recovery in the short term.
> 
> The longer this goes on, the more likely people are to have already booked summer holiday plans. Even if they announce a plan to reopen on some date in July, for instance, they won't get that much interest. Also, resorts require significant lead time to reopen and prepare.


Agreed, there should be a distinction on how much to charge locals versus tourists for similar services. Perhaps, they should have kamaaina discount for locals and charge more to tourists. Even if they double or triple the fare, it will not discourage most tourists for services like diamond head, hanauma bay, Pearl Harbor and others.
They should steer away from increasing transient tax even in the short term as it may discourage the loyal tourists who may find alternative places to vacation and may not come back. Much rather have higher sales tax on add ones such as shopping and other amenities rather than on basics like food and lodging. They need to find a balance between generating additional revenue without alienating their tourists from returning for multiple stays. I think they can be creative. But, it will be a struggle for the next 12-18 months.


----------



## bavaria

Having snorkeled all over the world, Hanauma Bay was shocking to me when I went there 3 or 4 years ago. I arrived at the earliest time, went through the briefing, looked around and decided 'no thank you'. I've snorkelled in places like Kenya, the Great Barrier Reef, the Maldives, Fiji, Thailand, Vietnam, Zanzibar, etc etc. I've also done a bit on Kauai, so thought that I should finally visit Hanauma Bay .

I don't know what can be done to save that place, but it was one of the saddest things I had seen in how the environment was treated. (I fully understand the locals enjoying time right now without tourists in the islands)

I'm not sure of the price structure but that was definitely something which could be vastly improved to find some way to balance demand and the environment.


----------



## bcwife76

bavaria said:


> Having snorkeled all over the world, Hanauma Bay was shocking to me when I went there 3 or 4 years ago. I arrived at the earliest time, went through the briefing, looked around and decided 'no thank you'. I've snorkelled in places like Kenya, the Great Barrier Reef, the Maldives, Fiji, Thailand, Vietnam, Zanzibar, etc etc. I've also done a bit on Kauai, so thought that I should finally visit Hanauma Bay .
> 
> I don't know what can be done to save that place, but it was one of the saddest things I had seen in how the environment was treated. (I fully understand the locals enjoying time right now without tourists in the islands)
> 
> I'm not sure of the price structure but that was definitely something which could be vastly improved to find some way to balance demand and the environment.


I snorkelled in Hanauma Bay in 1994 during a high school senior trip and then again in 2002, both times it was fantastic! We tried to go on a trip in 2018 and even getting there early it was still completely overcrowded and.....well, we didn't snorkel that day, I can only imagine what the water looked like.


----------



## Sepo

Stay tuned.... announcement today.


https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2020/...ng-plan-travelers-part-effort-reopen-tourism/


----------



## wisconsinmom

Sepo said:


> Stay tuned.... announcement today.
> 
> 
> https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2020/...ng-plan-travelers-part-effort-reopen-tourism/



I just watched part of the announcement.  Hawaii opening 8/1 without a 14 day quarantine if you have a negative COVID test within 72 hours (I think) before flying.  I wonder when Aulani will open!


----------



## yowcruiser

wisconsinmom said:


> I just watched part of the announcement.  Hawaii opening 8/1 without a 14 day quarantine if you have a negative COVID test within 72 hours (I think) before flying.  I wonder when Aulani will open!


Well, we know it is no earlier than August 1st. The Aulani website was updated last night with information that bookings are available August 1st onward... could they wait an extra week or two... maybe... or maybe all the way to September as crowd levels would be going down a bit more naturally...


----------



## montreid

https://www.khon2.com/coronavirus/t...egative-for-covid-19-before-coming-to-hawaii/
Cross posted to other thread -- We have Aug 1 flight and Aulani dates -- so a few days to decide if cancel or push further back


----------



## Sepo

I just booked Kauai Rental for week 1. Airfare higher 8/1 relative to 7/31. Curious, can I fly in July 31, quarantine in hotel, then fly inter-island the next morning with papers in hand?


----------



## Disney_Fan_01

Sepo said:


> I just booked Kauai Rental for week 1. Airfare higher 8/1 relative to 7/31. Curious, can I fly in July 31, quarantine in hotel, then fly inter-island the next morning with papers in hand?


I would not arrive prior to Aug 1st if you want to avoid the 14 day mandatory quarantine. The order clearly states that for tourists arriving from Aug 1 can bypass the mandatory quarantine if they can show proof of the negative COVID pretest no earlier than 72 hours from the date of arrival. I bet airlines know that is the case and that no one will be traveling prior to Aug 1 unless you want to be subject to the mandatory 14 day quarantine.


----------



## amystevekai&bump

Whilst I appreciate yesterday’s news is very welcome for most people - opening Hawaii on 1st August was the very worst news for me!

My flight from Seattle is on 1st August - I can’t be in Seattle for that flight as I am stuck in England with my flight to Seattle on 31/7 cancelled, plus no way I could get the testing etc done for the flight anyway!

I get the pressure on Hawaii to open, I’m just surprised considering how many of the mainland states are still having a rise in casss - makes me wonder what the point in closing the borders all this time was for, if the Hawaiian Governor just reopens them when things are actually looking worse on the mainland now?


----------



## CopperCreekBear

This is good news for our September trip, I think. But we are flying from the East coast and the the turn around times for the PCR swab testing for COVID seems to be taking like 4-6 days here. Ehhhh....


----------



## McSmooth

CopperCreekBear said:


> This is good news for our September trip, I think. But we are flying from the East coast and the the turn around times for the PCR swab testing for COVID seems to be taking like 4-6 days here. Ehhhh....



I'm sure the details will be coming in the next couple of weeks.

My gut says that part of the cost of getting a test will be some sort of "expedite fee" (just like with passports) so that the results are back in under 72 hours.  I'm keeping an eye on the Alaska situation, since they have the same policy.


----------



## BlueRibbon

McSmooth said:


> I'm sure the details will be coming in the next couple of weeks.
> 
> My gut says that part of the cost of getting a test will be some sort of "expedite fee" (just like with passports) so that the results are back in under 72 hours.  I'm keeping an eye on the Alaska situation, since they have the same policy.



You're right, more details have to be coming regarding the testing and their supposed deal with CVS. That deal would have to include the expedition, like you mentioned.


----------



## MsOnceUponATime

I'm excited for this announcement. I'm excited for all of you who've also been watching and waiting - as I have - to see if there's any possibility of Hawaii this year!


----------



## Disney_Fan_01

McSmooth said:


> I'm sure the details will be coming in the next couple of weeks.
> 
> My gut says that part of the cost of getting a test will be some sort of "expedite fee" (just like with passports) so that the results are back in under 72 hours.  I'm keeping an eye on the Alaska situation, since they have the same policy.


Agreed, we can learn from what AK has been doing. Also, paying for expedited tests seems a non issue as long as only a handful of states impose mandatory quarantine and it does not impact many people. But if there are tons of people who want to expedite their tests to travel, it could impact the people who actually have symptoms and are waiting for their results, who should be given priority. Perhaps, more testing centers will be opened in the next few months to alleviate these concerns as living with this virus will be continuing for at least the 12-18 months.


----------



## bavaria

amystevekai&bump said:


> Whilst I appreciate yesterday’s news is very welcome for most people - opening Hawaii on 1st August was the very worst news for me!
> 
> My flight from Seattle is on 1st August - I can’t be in Seattle for that flight as I am stuck in England with my flight to Seattle on 31/7 cancelled, plus no way I could get the testing etc done for the flight anyway!
> 
> I get the pressure on Hawaii to open, I’m just surprised considering how many of the mainland states are still having a rise in casss - makes me wonder what the point in closing the borders all this time was for, if the Hawaiian Governor just reopens them when things are actually looking worse on the mainland now?


It is certainly easy to have Schadenfreude and point to the US for poor decision making, but the reality is that every place had to try and manage. (And certainly if you are going to critique the US, look to your own backyard first perhaps?)

The reality is that Hawaii is being devastated now. The aid will not continue much longer, people are already suffering, and the leadership does not seem to have a plan in place. (Now would have been the time to work on plans for a sustainable tourism plan in future, for example, or announce if there will be local shut downs again like in Germany if the R0 or some other figure reaches XYZ. But we don't know if they are doing that)

Even if the borders 'open', they won't have the tourism levels anywhere near they had in February. Nor is it clear if they will even accept Japanese, Canadians, etc but those people may not be able to travel either in August.

Governments need to balance how to manage the virus, vs how to manage the economy. In many places globally, such as Tanzania, the Maldives, etc they have decided to open because the reality is that they cannot continue to remain closed.

Europe has opened for awhile, cases are up in places like Croatia, but the goal was never zero cases. So long as those can be controlled and managed, then life has to move forward and we need to continue to live.

I read other websites with a more diverse readership including small business owners in Hawaii, and much lower income than the very homogenized mix of readers here. While many of the business owners have been doing their best to continue, or find a way out, many are also coming to the realisation that they cannot even hold out til August.

I don't know the figures, but Hawaii has always struck me as a 'poor' state (I see parts that most tourists do not) and ultimately there has to be some way for the general population to have employment in the coming months.


----------



## Galun

amystevekai&bump said:


> I get the pressure on Hawaii to open, I’m just surprised considering how many of the mainland states are still having a rise in casss - makes me wonder what the point in closing the borders all this time was for, if the Hawaiian Governor just reopens them when things are actually looking worse on the mainland now?



The goal of the quarantine is really to buy time to establish a testing infrastructure so they can do targeted quarantine, and build surge hospital capacity to handle the increase in cases when the economy opens back up.

It was already beyond containment and the economy cannot be shut down indefinitely.  So you do the best you can and adapt.  Mainland states opening back up and then shutting down again partially is a normal response.


----------



## bavaria

Galun said:


> The goal of the quarantine is really to buy time to establish a testing infrastructure so they can do targeted quarantine, and build surge hospital capacity to handle the increase in cases when the economy opens back up.
> 
> It was already beyond containment and the economy cannot be shut down indefinitely.  So you do the best you can and adapt.  Mainland states opening back up and then shutting down again partially is a normal response.


Exactly. This week Germany and Portugal both shut down neighbourhoods again due to rising R0 (and if you have low cases, then 'new' cases in clusters like meat facilities make the R0 seem really high, but in the reality overall figures are still good) *That is exactly what was supposed to happen with the plan that much of Europe had in place. *Yet many take that as a sign that things are very bad. No, they are being controlled with testing, contact tracing, local shutdowns, etc.

Interestingly, Portugal has one of the lowest ICU per capita rates in Europe. (4 per 100,000 vs US in total 29 per 100,000) I'm not sure how it compares to Hawaii, but they managed to weather this quite well by imposing lock downs, delivering food to the vulnerable, offering free health care to illegal immigrants, and closing borders with Spain. They've shown how a relatively 'poor' country dependent on tourism could develop a way to control this in the short term, whilst opening up their critical tourism economy and even opening up more than most of the rest of Europe and earlier.

Hopefully in Hawaii during this period they were developing a plan of how to manage increases, find additional medical resources, ICU beds, etc just in case they are needed.


----------



## blondietink

I am finally excited that our trip for the end of October can actually happen.  Now the only thing is how do I get my 30 year old son with Down sydrome to tolerate the covid test?  UGH!


----------



## bavaria

Honestly, it isn't bad at all. I think too much was made of that You Tube video and no they are not scraping your brain. For me it just felt like a bit when you get water up your nose swimming the times I have had it. Good luck and don't worry too much about it as I think that for most people it's just mildly unpleasant.


----------



## amystevekai&bump

bavaria said:


> It is certainly easy to have Schadenfreude and point to the US for poor decision making, but the reality is that every place had to try and manage. (And certainly if you are going to critique the US, look to your own backyard first perhaps?)



Whilst I actually agree with the majority of your response to my post, I’m confused by your initial paragraph?

At no point am I taking any pleasure from this situation believe me! And I think every country, including my own, has had very hard decisions to make in unprecedented circumstances.

I am allowed to be confused by the timings of the decision, and I hope, like I do for all of our countries, that it’s been done at the best time - I long to return to Hawaii & I just hope that those who are now able to return next month have a wonderful time and the cost to the Hawaiian people is limited compared to the gains it brings them.


----------



## JM23457

bavaria said:


> Honestly, it isn't bad at all. I think too much was made of that You Tube video and no they are not scraping your brain. For me it just felt like a bit when you get water up your nose swimming the times I have had it. Good luck and don't worry too much about it as I think that for most people it's just mildly unpleasant.


I really disliked it. It certainly isn't a scrape of your brain (& I haven't seen a You Tube video on the topic), but they do go waaaay up your nose & that does not feel good. I'm more physically comfortable having a strep test, flu swab, or pap smear than I was having the Covid test. That might be tmi, but I'm just trying to create some reference for those who haven't had it. It isn't out & out painful, just really uncomfortable. I can't imagine making young children take it just to go on a family vacation. Every parent is different, though.


----------



## JoshF

Are there guidelines on how close to your travel dates you need to have a Covid test?  I'm going there in Mid September.


----------



## Sepo

My add: there’s the traditional deep test which is more accurate and provider-performed and the do-it-yourself shorter rapid-results swab (such as what CVS offers for customers who wait in theIr cars in the parking lot).

Two unclear things to me:

1. Does the lower quality rapid do-it-yourself satisfy the requirements. Seems it does. No judgment but certainly less effective.

2. Even if so... at present the CVS website says adults only. I’m flying w my non adult children so that’s another barrier. Finding a rapid location that accepts kids.

If anyone learns more please pass along.


----------



## montreid

You lose a few percentage points on sensitivity from the nasopharyngeal (tickle the brain) swab (90%) vs midturbinate (swab nose) (85-95) vs throat swab/spit (80-85%).   Have to balance that with patient discomfort, PPE burn, and nursing LVN/RN for Nasopharyngeal swabs.     

That is why the spit test actually gaining a lot of popularity given the PPE burn and patient convenience -- but testing reagents/availability for that test remains the limiting factor


----------



## corgi_monster

Sepo said:


> My add: there’s the traditional deep test which is more accurate and provider-performed and the do-it-yourself shorter rapid-results swab (such as what CVS offers for customers who wait in theIr cars in the parking lot).
> 
> Two unclear things to me:
> 
> 1. Does the lower quality rapid do-it-yourself satisfy the requirements. Seems it does. No judgment but certainly less effective.
> 
> 2. Even if so... at present the CVS website says adults only. I’m flying w my non adult children so that’s another barrier. Finding a rapid location that accepts kids.
> 
> If anyone learns more please pass along.



There are more details on this website:  https://www.gohawaii.com/special-alerts-information

I don’t know all those letters/jargon but It looks like you are not limited to CVS.  Also, the site states that the government has not decided at what age children must be tested.


----------



## yowcruiser

corgi_monster said:


> There are more details on this website:  https://www.gohawaii.com/special-alerts-information
> 
> I don’t know all those letters/jargon but It looks like you are not limited to CVS.  Also, the site states that the government has not decided at what age children must be tested.


An interesting quote as well is on whether this will apply to travel from places other than mainland USA. So I am reading this in one of two ways... travelers from other countries may not be allowed to use this exemption and will continue to have to quarantine for 14 days... or it doesn't apply and foreign travelers will only be subject to US border control restrictions in place at the time of travel...


----------



## Sepo

yowcruiser said:


> An interesting quote as well is on whether this will apply to travel from places other than mainland USA. So I am reading this in one of two ways... travelers from other countries may not be allowed to use this exemption and will continue to have to quarantine for 14 days... or it doesn't apply and foreign travelers will only be subject to US border control restrictions in place at the time of travel...



I suspect it’ll be the latter for bubble nations to the East (Japan, Australia, maybe S Korea) for reasons previously discussed.


----------



## Galun

We had a reservation for 8/2 - 8/23 (until the kids start school) and we just canceled.  While there is no mandatory quarantine by August 1st, we have no confidence that we can find rapid testing with quick turn around time at the end of July.  COVID is going up again and who knows if they will deprioritize non essential testing by end of July.  Plus it looks like they want the invasive PCR test at $160 per test which is $800 for our family. I don't want to risk our points going into holding if we have to cancel last minute.  Plus, Aulani has not announced reopening date yet, and we don't know what kind of social distancing is required. 

Given availability we can rebook close to end of July for August if we are comfortable with everybody by that time.  Our flights were booked before March so they qualify for no fee rebook until end of this year.  We can find somewhere else to go if we do not go to Hawaii.  Was kinda looking forward to visiting an uncrowded Hawaii, and kinda test out DVC as part of our retirement plan with an extended stay.  Oh well.


----------



## montreid

We too threw in the towel today - canceled Aug 1-10


----------



## heaven2dc

blondietink said:


> I am finally excited that our trip for the end of October can actually happen.  Now the only thing is how do I get my 30 year old son with Down sydrome to tolerate the covid test?  UGH!



Keeping my fingers crossed that the resort will be open by then!   No definite date has been announced yet but hopefully your family will get to go!


----------



## Paigesmom2013

bavaria said:


> Honestly, it isn't bad at all. I think too much was made of that You Tube video and no they are not scraping your brain. For me it just felt like a bit when you get water up your nose swimming the times I have had it. Good luck and don't worry too much about it as I think that for most people it's just mildly unpleasant.


I've had both the deep swab and the nostril version and they were both very uncomfortable--like grab the handles on the chair and brace yourself uncomfortable. (And I have had two c-sections, mammograms, pap smears and all kinds of female type procedures). I'd say it's like a pap smear for your nose. My 7 year old was tested and did not seem as bothered by it as I was. Perhaps the doctor was more gentle with her. But hey, you do what you gotta do!


----------



## The Big Mermaid

We pulled the plug on August 17-24 yesterday.  Traveling from the East Coast with our 84 year old parents made no sense. I keep thinking that it isn’t going to get any easier to do it when they are 85 but keeping us safe now is the top priority.

Aloha, 3 bedroom ocean view grand villa.......


----------



## Sepo

I took an opposite approach and


Paigesmom2013 said:


> I've had both the deep swab and the nostril version and they were both very uncomfortable--like grab the handles on the chair and brace yourself uncomfortable. (And I have had two c-sections, mammograms, pap smears and all kinds of female type procedures). I'd say it's like a pap smear for your nose. My 7 year old was tested and did not seem as bothered by it as I was. Perhaps the doctor was more gentle with her. But hey, you do what you gotta do!



If I may ask, what type of facility were you and your child tested at? And also how long was your turnaround. Some rapid testing sites will not take minors.  I ask bc I’m trying to plan for my daughter’s testing in time for a hopeful turnaround w results within 72 of arrival.


----------



## maciec

blondietink said:


> I am finally excited that our trip for the end of October can actually happen.  Now the only thing is how do I get my 30 year old son with Down sydrome to tolerate the covid test?  UGH!



We just booked for 10/26-11/3. I am praying the report is open but then. Rapid tests here where I live are coming back within 48 hours thankfully.


----------



## Noah_t

amystevekai&bump said:


> Whilst I actually agree with the majority of your response to my post, I’m confused by your initial paragraph?
> 
> At no point am I taking any pleasure from this situation believe me! And I think every country, including my own, has had very hard decisions to make in unprecedented circumstances.
> 
> I am allowed to be confused by the timings of the decision, and I hope, like I do for all of our countries, that it’s been done at the best time - I long to return to Hawaii & I just hope that those who are now able to return next month have a wonderful time and the cost to the Hawaiian people is limited compared to the gains it brings them.


Yes that dude needs to relax.  I did not get any hint of schadenfreude (Thanks Spellcheck!) in your post.


----------



## Paigesmom2013

Sepo said:


> I took an opposite approach and
> 
> 
> If I may ask, what type of facility were you and your child tested at? And also how long was your turnaround. Some rapid testing sites will not take minors.  I ask bc I’m trying to plan for my daughter’s testing in time for a hopeful turnaround w results within 72 of arrival.


I was tested at a community site and later tested for my work. My first test came back exactly at 48 hours. With the second, it took longer, but I think they were just lazy in calling everyone with results (I knew I was negative.) My daughter was tested at our local health clinic after a false high temperature reading in the lobby. (They scanned her forehead at 101 but the oral temp was 98.3. Since we were already there and inconvenienced, I asked for a test.) Her test results took about 24 hours or less. The results were in her electronic health record, something called MyChart.


----------



## JM23457

Paigesmom2013 said:


> I was tested at a community site and later tested for my work. My first test came back exactly at 48 hours.


Lucky. My test results took about 5 days.


----------



## kverdon

JM23457 said:


> Lucky. My test results took about 5 days.


Interesting thought. What about this scenario. Family of 4 just wants to go to Hawaii and hang out at the condo and relax but does not want to pay for them all to be tested. Could 1 person, the one who makes the reservations, rents the car, plans to do all the shopping et all just get tested?  The other 3 would be restricted to the condo but not the one who tests negative. This sounds like a hole in their planning.


----------



## kyton

kverdon said:


> Interesting thought. What about this scenario. Family of 4 just wants to go to Hawaii and hang out at the condo and relax but does not want to pay for them all to be tested. Could 1 person, the one who makes the reservations, rents the car, plans to do all the shopping et all just get tested?  The other 3 would be restricted to the condo but not the one who tests negative. This sounds like a hole in their planning.


Why would anyone in their tight mind fly all the way to Hawaii to sit inside a condo for 14 days - that’s a heck of a lot of money to sit inside 4 walls. Surely you could find a closer beachside apartment within the mainland for less money and without the need to quarantine?


----------



## JM23457

kverdon said:


> Interesting thought. What about this scenario. Family of 4 just wants to go to Hawaii and hang out at the condo and relax but does not want to pay for them all to be tested. Could 1 person, the one who makes the reservations, rents the car, plans to do all the shopping et all just get tested?  The other 3 would be restricted to the condo but not the one who tests negative. This sounds like a hole in their planning.


No, it would be much too difficult to enforce that. And no one would travel over an ocean just to stay indoors at their condo all of the time, anyway. They could do that anywhere.


----------



## kverdon

True but it does sound like a way people could skirt the rules. It would be pretty hard to catch folks once 1 member of a party has a reusable room key,  rental car etc. Are you going to have to carry your “papers” everywhere you go and present them to get into a grocery store, restaurant etc?


----------



## Sepo

I suspect the vast majority of those going will strive to comply. Per the state website it seems implied to me that you get cleared at the airport as “off the list” and otherwise the default is “on the quarantine list” and all the tracking that comes with it.  You don’t need to present info to anyone else outside the airport; they may suspect and report you but are not in position to check or clear you.

A few bigger issues imho are 1) the testing of minors (less available and what age cutoff) and 2) the turnaround time. They need a clear provision for proof of testing accomplished in case results still pending (I.e., quarantine followed by clearance thereafter).

Lastly, 3) will they be so strict on the time of day in the 72 hour window (notice they recently  changed it from arrival to “boarding”)? If I get tested with sample collection logged at 8am, technically 78 hours before, in order to increase likelihood of turnaround, will that be rejected? At present it seems, yes.


----------



## Sepo

Also: here’s where the state’s latest is always posted - https://www.gohawaii.com/special-alerts-information


----------



## kverdon

Sepo said:


> Also: here’s where the state’s latest is always posted - https://www.gohawaii.com/special-alerts-information


Interesting that they require that the test be performed in a CLIA approved Lab. That rules out self testing and perhap many point of care options. Also interesting if the 72 hrs is from time of the result report or time of collection.


----------



## here757

kyton said:


> Why would anyone in their tight mind fly all the way to Hawaii to sit inside a condo for 14 days - that’s a heck of a lot of money to sit inside 4 walls. Surely you could find a closer beachside apartment within the mainland for less money and without the need to quarantine?


Although I would not, but
My girls do allstar cheer. One of the most desirable camp is in PA.. last I heard (Friday) they were asking parents from hot zones to self quarantine for 14 days. Then on arrival kids get a health screening. If symptoms show they will be denied entry..
The camps are 1 week. Very prestigious, cost around 1200 a week. I see to much opportunity for folks not being truthful..


----------



## _auroraborealis_

kverdon said:


> True but it does sound like a way people could skirt the rules. It would be pretty hard to catch folks once 1 member of a party has a reusable room key,  rental car etc. Are you going to have to carry your “papers” everywhere you go and present them to get into a grocery store, restaurant etc?


They wouldn't give any of you a reusable key.


----------



## Sepo

The latest language update 7/6/20: 

“Beginning Saturday, August 1, *Travelers to Hawaii who have a valid negative COVID-19 nucleic acid amplification test *(NAAT) for COVID-19, as approved or authorized for use by the Food and Drug Administration, pursuant to the Emergency Use Authorization (COVID-19 Testing Services) *from a Clinical Laboratory Improvement Amendments (CLIA) licensed or certified laboratory prior to arriving at Hawaii’s airports will not be subject to the state’s mandatory 14-day quarantine.* To be clear, *this test result must be confirmed prior to arrival* and the passenger must present evidence of this test upon arrival. Individuals will be responsible for the cost of the pre-travel test.”


----------



## JM23457

Sepo said:


> The latest language update 7/6/20:
> 
> “Beginning Saturday, August 1, *Travelers to Hawaii who have a valid negative COVID-19 nucleic acid amplification test *(NAAT) for COVID-19, as approved or authorized for use by the Food and Drug Administration, pursuant to the Emergency Use Authorization (COVID-19 Testing Services) *from a Clinical Laboratory Improvement Amendments (CLIA) licensed or certified laboratory prior to arriving at Hawaii’s airports will not be subject to the state’s mandatory 14-day quarantine.* To be clear, *this test result must be confirmed prior to arrival* and the passenger must present evidence of this test upon arrival. Individuals will be responsible for the cost of the pre-travel test.”


No time frame for testing?


----------



## Sepo

Sorry. That was the next paragraph that I did not paste. They changed formatting of the state website again; this morning says “72 hours before boarding their flight to Hawaii”.

Here’s the latest (pasting): 

*Pre-Travel Testing Program for Out-of-State Travelers – August 1*

Beginning August 1, travelers to Hawaii who have a valid negative COVID-19 FDA-approved *NAAT*test *(this replaces the previous requirement of polymerase chain reaction or PCR test)* from a CLIA-certified laboratory *72 hours prior to boarding their flight to Hawaii* will not be subject to the 14-day quarantine. *To reiterate, this test result must be done prior to arrival and the traveler must present evidence of this test.* Travelers will be responsible for the cost of the pre-travel test.

Daily updates here: https://www.gohawaii.com/special-alerts-information.


----------



## DRussell83

Been searching online - is anyone able to dumb down for me what the difference between a NAAT and a PCR test is?  Is it something that CVS can do?  Seems like they are making it more difficult for us to come visit, but again having a hard time understanding.


----------



## Sepo

DRussell83 said:


> Been searching online - is anyone able to dumb down for me what the difference between a NAAT and a PCR test is?  Is it something that CVS can do?  Seems like they are making it more difficult for us to come visit, but again having a hard time understanding.



Would defer to a pathologist/biochemist running the lab but my understanding is they are for all intents and purposes the same, at least for this matter. NAAT as a term is being used more so they may be proactive in that regard. I think all PCRs are a type of NAAT ultimately so it’s more of a generic term.


----------



## DRussell83

Sepo said:


> Would defer to a pathologist/biochemist running the lab but my understanding is they are for all intents and purposes the same, at least for this matter. NAAT as a term is being used more so they may be proactive in that regard. I think all PCRs are a type of NAAT ultimately so it’s more of a generic term.


That's what I was gathering too.  Appreciate your response!


----------



## Boardwalkin

Hopefully the PCR test qualifies as this is what I see on the CVS website:

MinuteClinic performs a PCR test, which tests for active infections only. We do not administer antibody tests, which indicate whether the patient has been infected in the past.


----------



## Sepo

Boardwalkin said:


> Hopefully the PCR test qualifies as this is what I see on the CVS website:
> 
> MinuteClinic performs a PCR test, which tests for active infections only. We do not administer antibody tests, which indicate whether the patient has been infected in the past.



I believe it should. Check your area for the CVS minute clinic turnaround time.Where I live it’s at 5-7 days currently.  Also they will not test minors in case that’s an issue.


----------



## Mommy2Logan

Anyone else know about limitations for getting minors tested?  I can't seem to find much info on testing in Colorado.


----------



## Sepo

State of Hawaii wrote back to an email query that they are still deciding on age and will post updates closer to Aug 1. In our area, the local hospital and the pediatric clinic do offer testing for minors.


----------



## Mommy2Logan

State of Hawaii wouldn't be doing the testing though, right? Would be your home state. Maybe I don't understand the process. It's confusing and I haven't had much time to devote to sifting through all the language in the various press releases and COVID testing sites and state guidelines.  I can't believe I'm saying this , but even just planning this trip is making me not want to go.


----------



## Mommy2Logan

Wait, I think I misunderstood what you were saying about Hawaii. Are you saying that they may not require testing on children?


----------



## braysmommy

Mommy2Logan said:


> Wait, I think I misunderstood what you were saying about Hawaii. Are you saying that they may not require testing on children?



I believe everyone including children must be tested before leaving mainland. The problem is that many testing sites won't test minors if they don't have symptoms.


----------



## Sepo

Hi. So,

1) They have not formally announced what they will do for minors yet. Here is an excerpt from today (it changes everyday):

“Further details are forthcoming, such as: from what age will children be tested...”

But, I’d be shocked if older kids were exempt.

2) Yes, they are very clear that there will be no testing offered there. They simply have nowhere near the capacity (they max at 35K visitors a day and presently have testing capacity for the islands at a small fraction of that daily).


----------



## Mommy2Logan

I think it would be silly not to require testing of children too if they are planning to test adults.  When school starts at 2 days a week, my kid will be around more people than I will be since he will have his regular classroom at school 2 days a week and then will be in daycare the other 3 days that are supposed to be virtual learning from home days. We are working parents and he won't be staying home those days.  So two entirely different sets of children and the ones at his daycare will be coming from many different schools in neighboring towns.


----------



## bmissb01

when do w think auluni will open???


----------



## kverdon

DRussell83 said:


> That's what I was gathering too.  Appreciate your response!


Yes NAAT and PCR are pretty Synonomous what they are trying to differentiate is the difference between these tests and a COVID-19 antigen test (which they will not accept).


----------



## corgi_monster

The state’s wording makes it seem as though very young children will not require testing.  The state/city doesn’t require masks for children 4 and under.  Daycares are not being held to the same social distancing guidelines as elementary schools.  So I’m guessing the cutoff will be around age 5.

More importantly, top officials are currently meeting to discuss postponing the August 1 reopening date.


----------



## Sepo

To actually eliminate the exemption would be extremely diffficult considering all the downstream effects (tourism industry ignition already well underway at immense cost).

The most extreme adjustment that I have read about is the proposal to eliminate the quarantine and deny entry to anyone without a negative test before landing. That has already been floated and could be deemed effective.

(Personally, I am stressed about finding a lab to have the test turnaround in time, especially as the situation continues to  evolve.)


----------



## cgattis

Not to derail the conversation, but you guys clearly know more about this than anyone I know....If you go get tested prior to a trip (not because you have symptoms, but because you need proof of testing), and you test positive, what is the process for getting cleared? Do you have to wait 14 days (or some other period) before getting another test? Or can you test again if you’re not having symptoms?  Can you test whenever you want if you’re paying for it out of pocket?


----------



## Sepo

It’s a good question. Presumably in such a scenario one is then in high alert and needs to stay home while you and your healthcare provider assess your situation. Specifically, you would have to work out whether you’re early (pre-symptomatic) or late (were never symptomatic) in the process. The test can stay positive for a very long time and there are some floated protocols such as for example: can discontinue isolation 10 days after first positive test with negative symptoms all the while etc.

(https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/disposition-in-home-patients.html)

Regardless, I am fairly certain this is too convoluted for the state (of Hawaii’s quarantine exemption steps ) and you will not be cleared of quarantine rules with a positive test despite trying to explain that. A person’s best bet is to get a negative test thereafter.


----------



## jkips

If you test positive you are not supposed to get on an airplane and fly to Hawaii.  That’s the whole point.  I don’t know enough about the false positive rate of the varying tests but if it is a test that has a decently high percentage of false positives then I think you take another one right away to confirm it was a true false positive and that you’re just not asymptomatic.   Trying to explain to the state of Hawaii that you took the test, it showed positive but that you don’t have it would be a nonstarter.  

The reality is most states right now don’t have the capability of turning around these tests in a guaranteed 3 days.   We need more testing ability before this can realistically work.


----------



## cgattis

I’m not going until 2021; I’m just wondering how it might work.  (I promise—I’m not getting on any airplane to anywhere right now LOL) Obviously it might be different by then also.  Just wondering if you test positive, and the next day (or x days later) test negative, which one do “they” believe? Wonder if you’d then need an antibody test tomorrow show you didn’t ever have it?  Just wondering, as that discussion had gone around here, I.e., what would you do if you tested positive right before your trip, and it got me curious.


----------



## Sepo

The latest. At least they know there’s a problem.

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2020/...ws-cold-water-hawaiis-tourism-reopening-plan/


----------



## Sepo

cgattis said:


> I’m not going until 2021; I’m just wondering how it might work.  (I promise—I’m not getting on any airplane to anywhere right now LOL) Obviously it might be different by then also.  Just wondering if you test positive, and the next day (or x days later) test negative, which one do “they” believe? Wonder if you’d then need an antibody test tomorrow show you didn’t ever have it?  Just wondering, as that discussion had gone around here, I.e., what would you do if you tested positive right before your trip, and it got me curious.



That’s an interesting (hypothetical of course) moral dilemma:  Positive followed negative. You are not obligated to show them anything you don’t want to show them. Morally, you’d face the prospect that the second one is false negative and will then spread it unknowingly. 

I fear this would open a can of worms in discussion here... so I’ll leave it at that I suppose.

(Last thing I’d add is maybe an Ig-G Ab test alongside the negative gives you peace of mind that you’re likely not a risk to others.)


----------



## DRussell83

Sepo said:


> To actually eliminate the exemption would be extremely diffficult considering all the downstream effects (tourism industry ignition already well underway at immense cost).
> 
> The most extreme adjustment that I have read about is the proposal to eliminate the quarantine and deny entry to anyone without a negative test before landing. That has already been floated and could be deemed effective.
> 
> (Personally, I am stressed about finding a lab to have the test turnaround in time, especially as the situation continues to  evolve.)


What are your travel dates?


----------



## Sepo

8/1:  the first day. Would need to test no earlier than 7/29 2pm CST.


----------



## Tjddis

emilymad said:


> The problem is the longer Hawaii remains closed (compared to other states) the less likely tourism continues in the future.  For example, we are considering a trip next May which seems very far away.  In reality we would need to start planning this trip over the summer.  If there is doubt that Hawaii will be very strict in either reopening or closing down during a wave 2 we will just plan a trip to a different destination.  I am not saying that staying closed, etc is in anyway the wrong choice but it won't be worth it to us to risk a vacation there.  It becomes a slippery slope of being closed for the summer vs how long until tourists come back at all.


I’m kind of amazed at how Hawaii is handling all of this.  They so depend on tourism you would think they would want to get open
But I have some interesting experience with Hawaii.  Back in Nov 2001 my wife and I went there on our honeymoon.  We actually left the same day that there was a massive plane crash in Queens NY.  Our direct flight from Newark was delayed over 6 hours as nobody knew what caused the crash, and being 2 months after 9/11 people were freaked
Never a good flier to begin with I got a little loopy at the airport bar, sucked it up and got on the delayed flight.  Everywhere we went in Hawaii security was airtight.  For island hopping flights our luggage was searched extensively every time.  I struck up a convo one night with an off duty cop who told me tourism was everything to their economy and they were super cautious about the long term effect any issue would cause
So I think maybe they take the long view on this.  Yes they need the money, but would rather suck it up for this summer in hopes it does not linger and cause long term problems...


----------



## DRussell83

Sepo said:


> 8/1:  the first day. Would need to test no earlier than 7/29 2pm CST.


oh man, we are not till Thanksgiving week (rescheduled from May) so we at least have time on our side and just my husband and I coming from southern CA so we are going to hold steady and see how this unfolds - I hope it works out and please keep us posted.


----------



## cgattis

Sepo said:


> That’s an interesting (hypothetical of course) moral dilemma:  Positive followed negative. You are not obligated to show them anything you don’t want to show them. Morally, you’d face the prospect that the second one is false negative and will then spread it unknowingly.
> 
> I fear this would open a can of worms in discussion here... so I’ll leave it at that I suppose.
> 
> (Last thing I’d add is maybe an Ig-G Ab test alongside the negative gives you peace of mind that you’re likely not a risk to others.)


I was thinking more along the lines of how to know what to believe versus how to get away with something, but now I see how that could come into play.  Well hopefully there will be better testing by the time we go, but doesn’t help you guys much.  Best wishes for a safe trip!! And thanks for your opinion!


----------



## SinCityMMAFan

Looks like the August 1st date to reopen tourism will be delayed...

https://www.khon2.com/coronavirus/lg-says-governor-will-postpone-aug-1-date-to-reopen-tourism/


----------



## McSmooth

There’s an article at the Star Advertiser that says they’re sticking with Aug 1.

For some reason it won’t let me post the link here.


----------



## Sepo

McSmooth said:


> There’s an article at the Star Advertiser that says they’re sticking with Aug 1.
> 
> For some reason it won’t let me post the link here.



https://www.staradvertiser.com/2020/07/11/hawaii-news/ige-mayors-proceed-with-caution/


----------



## braysmommy

Not sure Aug. 1 is set in stone yet. 

https://mauinow.com/2020/07/10/brea...-test-program-identifies-thresholds-for-maui/


----------



## Sepo

braysmommy said:


> Not sure Aug. 1 is set in stone yet.
> 
> https://mauinow.com/2020/07/10/brea...-test-program-identifies-thresholds-for-maui/



For sure. You’re right it is most definitely NOT. All the island mayors and even the LG are saying that delay is imminent. Ige himself is the only one who has not. There is a lot behind the scenes and a lot of factors. That particular article is 2 days ago and it keeps evolving. 

Reading between the lines, I cannot help but wonder if the organized messaging of delay is to save face for the mayors while the Governor holds a different line. There are lesser articles also floating that the public has to step up and be responsible since there is no end in sight that would make it better to open necessarily in the coming months either.


----------



## Sepo

Ignore.


----------



## JoshF

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2020/...e-all-trans-pacific-travelers-through-august/
This happened


----------



## Mommy2Logan

We just cancelled our October trip.  Had been planning to reschedule for December but after the announcement we are feeling too discouraged and will just wait.


----------



## stagmite

Mommy2Logan said:


> We just cancelled our October trip.  Had been planning to reschedule for December but after the announcement we are feeling too discouraged and will just wait.



Yup, I've already written off Hawaii this year and made plans to go elsewhere. Just returned from a weeks long vacation at an all inclusive resort in Playa Del Carmen and I couldn't be happier. It had everything I wanted in a vacation with a beautiful resort, beaches, cenotes, parks, Mayan and Mexican culture events, and great food. Quite frankly the US tourism and entertainment industry can learn a thing or two from the Mexican tourism industry. They have done a fantastic job of limiting the spread of the coronavirus as much as they possibly can. It's now up to each individual to take personal responsibility for their safety. They will enforce social distancing, mask wearing and you must use hand sanitizers quit often especially when entering the resort, or any restaurant on the property.


----------



## Sepo

And there’s so much downstream effect too. Will have to work to get my Airbnb fees back (one site only offers 50% at present). Four flights, two interisland, with varying credit policies. It’s a real mess.


----------



## JoshF

I have a trip planned Sept 11.  I hope things open up Sept 1st.  Fingers crossed...


----------



## Sepo

Airbnb website is crashed. Hawaiian airlines had 250 flights a week.. now they’ll likely be back to a standstill.

Easy for me to be a backseat driver but I really think a better course of action that would have satisfied most issues would have been:

1) negative testing 7 days before (this addresses the current long turnaround time issue).

2) 2nd test 48 hours before (this addresses locals concerned that 72 hours was too long).

3) deny entry to anyone without the negative 7 day test. Quarantine not even an option. This addresses shirkers given the high volume.

4) visitors to register and remain relatively quarantined while 2nd test returns.

5) meanwhile. Even the passengers on the plane can feel better knowing that everyone on board was negative 7d or less before.

6) pre register before arrival so they know who / where you are. Skip the line out this way.


----------



## Halloweenqueen

Do not cancel your Airbnb until your travel dates get closer if you want a full refund. Currently they are up to August 15th. They extend to the end of August on July 15th. First half of September on August 1st, and so on.


----------



## Sepo

The AirBnB host refuses to soften on the 50% cancellation fee citing official policy. I’d be out $1000.  I think it’s cruel. It is frankly illegal to even rent out to anyone under quarantine rules.

I offered a reasonable compromise even.

I’m awaiting a specialist from AirBnB to call me back but I am not hopeful. Any advice?


----------



## stagmite

Sepo said:


> The AirBnB host refuses to soften on the 50% cancellation fee citing official policy. I’d be out $1000.  I think it’s cruel. It is frankly illegal to even rent out to anyone under quarantine rules.
> 
> I offered a reasonable compromise even.
> 
> I’m awaiting a specialist from AirBnB to call me back but I am not hopeful. Any advice?



Well the extension is only until September 1st, so I'm not sure how this can even be seen as illegal. Also something to keep in mind is that if the quarantine gets extended another month, what is AirBnB's cancellation policy due to COVID? I was also in a similar situation back in April when I tried to get clarity from VRBO for my resort booking on Waikiki. VRBO just told me to work with the property owner as they can't do anything about it. Lucky for me the property owner was understanding, but had they not been I would have been out around $3k. 

All this uncertainty and lack of planning by the Hawaiian government is really hurting alot of people. Their lack of leadership and ineptitude is the reason why I have completely written them off and will not book anything until I actually see the state open and tourism in operation for a couple of weeks. It's just too risky, and to be honest there are other places around the world that is just as good if not better then Hawaii to vacation at so why bother wasting your time and money on hope that they somehow get their act together in the near term future?


----------



## stagmite

Sepo said:


> The AirBnB host refuses to soften on the 50% cancellation fee citing official policy. I’d be out $1000.  I think it’s cruel. It is frankly illegal to even rent out to anyone under quarantine rules.
> 
> I offered a reasonable compromise even.
> 
> I’m awaiting a specialist from AirBnB to call me back but I am not hopeful. Any advice?



Per AirBnB's policy it doesn't look good for you. In summary AirBnb in their policy basically said you know COVID19 can ruin your vacation so if you still decide to go you do so at your own risk and don't expect them to bail you out. https://www.airbnb.com/help/article...cumstances-policy-and-the-coronavirus-covid19

_"Our extenuating circumstances policy is intended to protect guests and hosts from unforeseen circumstances that arise after booking. After the declaration of COVID-19 as a global pandemic by the World Health Organization, *the extenuating circumstances policy no longer applies because COVID-19 and its consequences are no longer unforeseen or unexpected*. Please remember to carefully review the host's cancellation policy when booking and consider choosing an option that provides flexibility."_


----------



## montreid

stagmite said:


> Per AirBnB's policy it doesn't look good for you. In summary AirBnb in their policy basically said you know COVID19 can ruin your vacation so if you still decide to go you do so at your own risk and don't expect them to bail you out. https://www.airbnb.com/help/article...cumstances-policy-and-the-coronavirus-covid19
> 
> _"Our extenuating circumstances policy is intended to protect guests and hosts from unforeseen circumstances that arise after booking. After the declaration of COVID-19 as a global pandemic by the World Health Organization, *the extenuating circumstances policy no longer applies because COVID-19 and its consequences are no longer unforeseen or unexpected*. Please remember to carefully review the host's cancellation policy when booking and consider choosing an option that provides flexibility."_


Get your credit card company involved  and review accordingly (perhaps even preview your review with the owner)


----------



## Sepo

Thanks all.

For clarification, the “illegal” part was that the state of Hawaii has a law that short term vacation rentals cannot engage in housing anyone subject to quarantine, subject to fine and jail time.  So, in theory, to execute this contract now is technically “illegal”. Hoping that is a mitigating trump factor.


----------



## stagmite

Sepo said:


> Thanks all.
> 
> For clarification, the “illegal” part was that the state of Hawaii has a law that short term vacation rentals cannot engage in housing anyone subject to quarantine, subject to fine and jail time.  So, in theory, to execute this contract now is technically “illegal”. Hoping that is a mitigating trump factor.



Once you reach an outcome please let us know what happened. I'd be curious to see if that argument can work. I think I read somewhere that Hawaii had reached deals with AirBnB and Vrbo to crack down on illegal vacation rentals. I wonder if this will bolster your case because that would mean the rental company would then be violating the AirBnB policy for Hawaii rentals.


----------



## Halloweenqueen

Using Disney speak, I am a friend of Airbnb. It is critical that you do not cancel your reservation yet. Airbnb is allowing full refunds to those who booked before March 14th, currently for travel dates up to August 15th. This will be updated to include the rest of August tomorrow. If you cancel this month you will be under your host’s policy period. There are no exceptions to this. 

You need to wait until your dates are included.  Airbnb has followed this pattern for several months now. The first of the month extends to the 15th if the next. On the 15th of the month the policy extends to the end of the next month. Policy is updated noon PST. Sometimes they are a few hours late with this, so make sure you see the update before processing the cancellation. Or give Airbnb a call.

Once you qualify you don’t have to even involve your host. You will have the choice of a full refund via travel credit or you can submit documentation (a screenshot of the quarantine requirement in this case) to receive a cash refund.

DM me if you would like more specifics.


----------



## bashuck

So will Disney cancel Aulani trips in August now on a rolling basis and return borrowed points back to their original year as they had been doing at WDW?


----------



## goterps1986

bashuck said:


> So will Disney cancel Aulani trips in August now on a rolling basis and return borrowed points back to their original year as they had been doing at WDW?



We had our banked points put back in from our cancelled May trip.   We booked for Oct since all those points expire in Nov. since we had saved up for this trip. So we are REALLY holding our breath now!!  Yes, Borrowed points should be much easier.


----------



## JoshF

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2020/...navirus-cases-single-day-another-record-high/
Not feeling too optimistic about my September trip


----------



## JM23457

JoshF said:


> https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2020/...navirus-cases-single-day-another-record-high/


Welcome to our world.


----------



## maciec

Praying our trip at the end of October happens


----------



## cmrdgrs

JoshF said:


> https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2020/...navirus-cases-single-day-another-record-high/
> Not feeling too optimistic about my September trip


I hope this works out for you!  I decided to cancel our September trip and now I'm considering March of 2021.  But, I'm not too sure about that either.  I have banked 2019 points that I need to use up and if March doesn't happen I'll be in a bad way with my banked points.  It's so hard to know what to do!


----------



## MickeyD

I officially cancelled our Sept trip yesterday.  Luckily Alaska refunded miles and cash and our Marriott timeshare is allowing points to be extended to Dec 2021 so my expiring points won't expire. I just don't see this letting up any time soon...well maybe November!


----------



## Galun

bashuck said:


> So will Disney cancel Aulani trips in August now on a rolling basis and return borrowed points back to their original year as they had been doing at WDW?



We cancelled back in June for a July reservation.  All points were returned to prior status, including borrowed points.


----------



## Galun

JoshF said:


> https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2020/...navirus-cases-single-day-another-record-high/
> Not feeling too optimistic about my September trip



I really hope that had used this time to improve / build surge hospital capacity.  Otherwise they are putting all their eggs in one basket (hoping a vaccine will be developed soon).


----------



## bavaria

Galun said:


> I really hope that had used this time to improve / build surge hospital capacity.  Otherwise they are putting all their eggs in one basket (hoping a vaccine will be developed soon).


Apparently they have not, and that continues to be the concern of many based in Hawaii that there has not been a place implemented to include rapid testing, contact tracing, and hospital capacity. Apparently ICU capacity was at 50% before the surge in numbers. And keep in mind that with virtually no tourism, these increases are coming from locals and their habits. Restrictions are being put in place to try and reduce the spread, including talk of reintroducing the inter-island travel ban.


----------



## Galun

bavaria said:


> Apparently they have not, and that continues to be the concern of many based in Hawaii that there has not been a place implemented to include rapid testing, contact tracing, and hospital capacity. Apparently ICU capacity was at 50% before the surge in numbers. And keep in mind that with virtually no tourism, these increases are coming from locals and their habits. Restrictions are being put in place to try and reduce the spread, including talk of reintroducing the inter-island travel ban.



Sigh...  Well let's hope an effective vaccine gets developed soon... like this season.  Otherwise I think tourism won't restart until possibly 2022.

We love the state.  I cannot begin to imagine the economic destruction if tourism shuts down for months to years.

It's like leadership of the state just hope things will improve on its own.  That's just plain irresponsible.


----------



## Halloweenqueen

We are waiting to hear the next announcement. Not looking good for the end of October. Sigh.


----------



## newdeal

I wonder if DVC is doing anything for people like me who banked points from last year into this year and now can't use them.  I mean I have until next August I guess but if our trip in February ends up cancelled I wouldn't be doing anything until the following year at which point some points will be expiring.  I would guess they won't or else people will end up with way too many points compared to the number of rooms available.


----------



## bavaria

bavaria said:


> Apparently they have not, and that continues to be the concern of many based in Hawaii that there has not been a place implemented to include rapid testing, contact tracing, and hospital capacity. Apparently ICU capacity was at 50% before the surge in numbers. And keep in mind that with virtually no tourism, these increases are coming from locals and their habits. Restrictions are being put in place to try and reduce the spread, including talk of reintroducing the inter-island travel ban.


Contrast this with Vietnam. After months of virtually no cases, there has been an outbreak around Da Nang (popular domestic tourist destination) They also had their first 2 deaths. 80,000 domestic tourists were 'evacuated' back to their home cities, and two field hospitals are being built. The country built some originally as part of their preparations. From what I understand, Hawaii has done little to actually prepare, other than close borders.


----------



## Sepo

For my canceled August trip, I wound up forfeiting near $800 on an AirBnB (50%) rental. Though after giving in (I was tired of being angry and trying to press the morality of it), the host was gracious enough to unofficially offer a credit of near $600 (her portion) if I rebook in the future, which felt better. 

Haven’t been able to get a live person at AirBnB for nearly 3 weeks now. I understand the T&C, etc. but really believed this was somewhat compelling since it is literally a crime punishable by jail time and fine to both the renter and host if I executed the contract. Quarantining is only permitted in a hotel officially.

In any event, not sure when we’d try again. Maybe only as a last second deal once we see that the state actually has a working system.


----------



## cgattis

Sepo said:


> it is literally a crime punishable by jail time and fine to both the renter and host if I executed the contract


Generally I favor the hosts when people want to cancel for weather and other “changes of plans” since the host can’t control that and they possibly could’ve rented to someone else during that time.  However, yeah, when they can NOT legally rent to anyone during that time, seems to me that’s up to some combination of Airbnb and the host to figure out how to give your money back.  What if you just said “damn the quarantine” and showed up at their property? Would they hand you a key? If not, then it seems they should refund your money.  I know it sucks for the renters but really they haven’t provided, and couldn’t provide, the service you’ve paid for.  I guess they’re just banking on most folks giving up and not pressing much. And it’s junk like this that makes me only stay at big chain hotels.  Not that crap can’t happen, but there’s a lot better chance of being taken care of IMO.  Glad you got some back.  Here’s again hoping everyone who had to reschedule CAN at some point (and that things are somewhat back to normal by my 2022 trip!).


----------



## Halloweenqueen

In defense of the host, they could have rented to an Hawaiian as inter-island and staycations are allowed. The dates were held by this guest. The host would love to have 100% of the rental revenue. Keeping 50% seems fair to me given all the terms and conditions were clear at the time of booking. 

I rent from Airbnb often and always filter by hosts that offer a flexible cancellation policy that allows full refunds up to 24 hours before checkin. 

Hawaii is an in demand market and it is a challenge to find anything but strict cancellation reservations there. That’s why we book hotels until we are 100% sure of travel, then often switch. Plus hosts reduce their prices for last minute bookings.


----------



## JM23457

This pandemic has made me pretty much done with nonrefundable travel, at least without good cancel for any reason travel insurance. It's just too risky.


----------



## Sepo

Yep good points all.


----------



## cgattis

Halloweenqueen said:


> In defense of the host, they could have rented to an Hawaiian as inter-island and staycations are allowed.


Ahh, gotcha. I was thinking all rentals were banned.


----------



## JoshF

Anyone have a guess as to when Hawaii will announce if they will allow travel in September with a negative Covid test?


----------



## Sepo

Here’s their government link. I save it in my phone’s NOTES page.  The language changes daily. Presently they are using the qualifier “tentative” for September 1:

https://www.gohawaii.com/special-alerts-information


----------



## corgi_monster

JoshF said:


> Anyone have a guess as to when Hawaii will announce if they will allow travel in September with a negative Covid test?



I'm sorry for the bad news but I really doubt it.  Today's newspaper headline (print edition) was SHUTDOWN POSSIBLE.  And it was in all caps.  In order to open on 9/1 the hotels would have started preparing by now.  None of the hotel workers I know, from front line to upper management, have been called back to work.

@Sepo - Was your vacation rental on Oahu?  All Oahu vacation rental units were shut down at the start of the pandemic and I haven't heard anything about them being able to open.   Just the mention of a police report could help you get the rest of your money back.  The fines for operating a rental during a pandemic are steep ($5,000+ I think?) and it's a criminal charge, not just a citation.  That's a lot of motivation for the owner to do the right thing!  If you want to look into it more, here is a link to the city's covid-19 proclamation:  http://www.honolulu.gov/rep/site/may/may_docs/EO_2020-21.pdf


----------



## JoshF

https://www.staradvertiser.com/2020...statewide-lockdown-might-be-the-only-way-out/
Not looking good...


----------



## SinCityMMAFan

JoshF said:


> https://www.staradvertiser.com/2020...statewide-lockdown-might-be-the-only-way-out/
> Not looking good...


207 new cases today.  That's Hawaii's highest total yet  Not good indeed.


----------



## JM23457

Did anyone actually think they were going to dodge the bullet?


----------



## kverdon

Looks like they are  re-implementing inter island  quarantine again on Tuesday and closing all public spaces, beaches, pools starting Sat. This may only for Oahu right now but I’d expect the other Islands to follow suit. Anyone planning on taking a vacation to Hawaii before next Spring or even before a vaccine is available, has to be a glutton for punishment.


----------



## thanxfornoticin

Yup - Hawaii is tightening up again, not opening up.  Had to cancel our first trip ever there this fall.  Hope our alternate plan of going next fall can still be realized, but the future is a complete unknown at this point.


----------



## JM23457

Ugh! I hope it reopens by June!


----------



## Halloweenqueen

Just cancelled for October. Have trip to Maui rescheduled from March to next Feb. We will see. Hard to imagine, but that one even seems like a long shot at this point.


----------



## VandVsmama

Hawaii has the highest R-naught value in the whole country right now (1.38), according to https://rt.live/).  It's so frustrating that they're shutting down more...frustrating for many tourists and residents alike.  I understand why they're doing it, of course.  It's still really exasperating especially if you're a DVC owner at Aulani!


----------



## JoshF

Wondering when they will make an announcement about Sept 1st and if tourists will be allowed in w a negative test.  Have a trip planned to Maui rescheduled from April.


----------



## cgattis

JoshF said:


> Wondering when they will make an announcement about Sept 1st and if tourists will be allowed in w a negative test.  Have a trip planned to Maui rescheduled from April.


Oooh come on over to the Maui thread and share your plans!


----------



## JoshF

cgattis said:


> Oooh come on over to the Maui thread and share your plans!


Where's a link for that thread?


----------



## cgattis

JoshF said:


> Where's a link for that thread?


Here you go!
https://www.disboards.com/threads/questions-about-maui.3806588/


----------



## MiniMN

Sepo said:


> Here’s their government link. I save it in my phone’s NOTES page.  The language changes daily. Presently they are using the qualifier “tentative” for September 1:
> 
> https://www.gohawaii.com/special-alerts-information


Thank you.  Trip planned mid-Oct.  Expectations low.


----------



## bobbiwoz

We cancelled our Kauai vacation for March, so did not book the week in Aulani as I planned to do yesterday.  We actually are postponing the whole trip for a year.


----------



## JM23457

We're booked for June and are looking forward to it.


----------



## JoshF

I wonder I wonder if there will be a definitive answer soon as to the 9/1 stop of quarantine if you have a negative test.


----------



## SleeplessInTO

JoshF said:


> I wonder I wonder if there will be a definitive answer soon as to the 9/1 stop of quarantine if you have a negative test.


I hope so! It’s two weeks away.


----------



## CateinPhoenix

We moved our November trip to December over the holidays.  Still hoping.....


----------



## DRussell83

CateinPhoenix said:


> We moved our November trip to December over the holidays.  Still hoping.....


We are still hoping for our Thanksgiving trip......


----------



## _auroraborealis_

I wouldn't expect definitive anything. Hawaii has been changing things as they move along.


----------



## corgi_monster

JoshF said:


> I wonder I wonder if there will be a definitive answer soon as to the 9/1 stop of quarantine if you have a negative test.



We should get the answer in Tuesday’s press conference.

Even if tourism opens up (which it won’t), why would anyone come?  Beaches, hiking trails, and all parks are closed through early September.  Further lockdowns on Oahu are imminent.


----------



## linzjane88

Ugh, we moved our April trip to November which took quite a bit of work because the VRBO host was unwilling to work with us to cancel, only to reschedule, and even then she wasn't warm and fuzzy about it. It left a bad taste in my mouth and the idea of pushing it out again (and having to have further dealings with the owner) is sad and stressful. Plus the longer this goes the more I worry about what happens if they sell/foreclose before we are actually allowed to show up there. I mean how long can these AirBnB hosts survive on little to no rental income


----------



## Sepo

linzjane88 said:


> Ugh, we moved our April trip to November which took quite a bit of work because the VRBO host was unwilling to work with us to cancel, only to reschedule, and even then she wasn't warm and fuzzy about it. It left a bad taste in my mouth and the idea of pushing it out again (and having to have further dealings with the owner) is sad and stressful. Plus the longer this goes the more I worry about what happens if they sell/foreclose before we are actually allowed to show up there. I mean how long can these AirBnB hosts survive on little to no rental income



I think there’s a provision protecting you in this case.

yes, our AirBnB host was inflexible for our Aug cancellation. It stinks for sure.


----------



## JoshF

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2020/...e-back-tourists-hawaii-is-delayed-once-again/
September 1st just got moved to October 1st...


----------



## POTCfan

From hawaiinewsnow.com :
"And the state’s plan to reopen the tourism industry with a traveler testing program has been delayed again — until Oct. 1. Hawaii had hoped to launch it Sept. 1, after initially planning to kick it off in August. "


----------



## JM23457

JoshF said:


> https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2020/...e-back-tourists-hawaii-is-delayed-once-again/
> September 1st just got moved to October 1st...


I can see this getting moved to November, then to December, then to January...So disappointing as they had a good plan for reopening then reneged on it. No one is going to feel safe booking travel there for a long time. I'm booked for June & am worried.


----------



## JoshF

JM23457 said:


> I can see this getting moved to November, then to December, then to January...So disappointing as they had a good plan for reopening then reneged on it. No one is going to feel safe booking travel there for a long time. I'm booked for June & am worried.


I wonder if this will have an impact on Aulani direct and resale sales.  It seems CA and HI are just not interested in opening anytime soon.


----------



## JM23457

JoshF said:


> It seems CA and HI are just not interested in opening anytime soon.


California can get away with it because tourism isn't the bedrock of its economy. You have to wonder what Hawaii's leaders are thinking, how they expect this to somehow be non-catastrophic to the state's econony.


----------



## MsOnceUponATime

I'd like thoughts on vacationing in Hawaii in April. I have a one month sabbatical starting mid April and would love to spend it in Hawaii.  If you care to share your opinion and thoughts I'm happy to read them.  🏝


----------



## JM23457

MsOnceUponATime said:


> I'd like thoughts on vacationing in Hawaii in April. I have a one month sabbatical starting mid April and would love to spend it in Hawaii.  If you care to share your opinion and thoughts I'm happy to read them.  🏝


50/50 chance of it working out.


----------



## MiniMN

corgi_monster said:


> We should get the answer in Tuesday’s press conference.
> 
> Even if tourism opens up (which it won’t), why would anyone come?  Beaches, hiking trails, and all parks are closed through early September.  Further lockdowns on Oahu are imminent.



Cancelled my October trip for that reason.  Another time.  I could see it coming, so no tears.  DVC was wonderful and returned my banked points to their original use year.  I'm hoping to make lemonade out of lemons and splurge a little on larger digs when I take my niece to Disney World next June.


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## OKW Lover

We are hoping to go in the May/June time frame 2021.  We've been 5 times now and really, really want to get back.


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## vacay77

JoshF said:


> I wonder if this will have an impact on Aulani direct and resale sales.  It seems CA and HI are just not interested in opening anytime soon.



i don’t think it’s that they aren’t interested in opening up right now.  They are subject to local government.  I know that Hawaii heavily relies on tourism, but I completely understand their government officials reluctance in opening it up.  I have a trip to the Aulani scheduled for the first week in October with points I rented through David’s Vacation Rental.   It looks like I won’t know for certain until mid September what will happen with that trip.  We aren’t going regardless, but I just hope that I can get a credit if the Aulani is still closed.


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## _auroraborealis_

https://www.hawaiitourismauthority.org/news/alerts/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/
Inter-island to Oahu is fine, but everyone coming in initially is back on a 14 day quarantine. They don't trust the tests and fairly so.


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## Sepo

Great setbacks were part of Hawaii’s old history (late 1800s, 1946 strike etc), and here they’re keeping the legacy fresh.


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## JM23457

OKW Lover said:


> We are hoping to go in the May/June time frame 2021.  We've been 5 times now and really, really want to get back.


We're booked for June & have high hopes.


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## OffToDWD

We rescheduled our March trip to next June.  Going to totally spoil ourselves (hopefully) with a week in Kauai followed by 2 weeks in Oahu!  Keeping fingers crossed!


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## JoshF

vacay77 said:


> i don’t think it’s that they aren’t interested in opening up right now.  They are subject to local government.  I know that Hawaii heavily relies on tourism, but I completely understand their government officials reluctance in opening it up.  I have a trip to the Aulani scheduled for the first week in October with points I rented through David’s Vacation Rental.   It looks like I won’t know for certain until mid September what will happen with that trip.  We aren’t going regardless, but I just hope that I can get a credit if the Aulani is still closed.


I had a September Maui reservation.  Today the hotel cancelled it and in an email said they are closed through Oct 24.  That's just the Hyatt but other hotels may follow suit.


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## Sepo

cgattis said:


> Generally I favor the hosts when people want to cancel for weather and other “changes of plans” since the host can’t control that and they possibly could’ve rented to someone else during that time.  However, yeah, when they can NOT legally rent to anyone during that time, seems to me that’s up to some combination of Airbnb and the host to figure out how to give your money back.  What if you just said “damn the quarantine” and showed up at their property? Would they hand you a key? If not, then it seems they should refund your money.



Update: after 6 weeks, perseverance, highlighting PDFs of Hawaiian law and news articles demonstrating the enforced illegality of quarantining in a rental condo, and a little luck with a representative willing to listen... I actually did get a full refund!!

I will plan to stay with that host again so that she can be made whole. Maybe even during an off time that the condo might be empty otherwise. But yes, exactly, it would have been a crime to stay there and the host would have been facing a $5000 fine and jail time. And many neighbors in Hawaii were organizing to report any violators.


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## cgattis

Sepo said:


> Update: after 6 weeks, perseverance, highlighting PDFs of Hawaiian law and news articles demonstrating the enforced illegality of quarantining in a rental condo, and a little luck with a representative willing to listen... I actually did get a full refund!!
> 
> I will plan to stay with that host again so that she can be made whole. Maybe even during an off time that the condo might be empty otherwise. But yes, exactly, it would have been a crime to stay there and the host would have been facing a $5000 fine and jail time. And many neighbors in Hawaii were organizing to report any violators.


That’s great news.  It also gives me a little reassurance since I’m considering a condo in Maui for a couple of nights (rest at a chain hotel). I generally avoid because of stuff like this.  Glad you got taken care of and it’s great you’re going to stay with the same host; I know it’s tough on them.


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## marshac

How are point refunds working when you’ve used banked points from a prior use year with no possibility of using them? Out of luck?


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## linco711

My daughter lives on Oahu, and I’d love to see her. But she tells me it will be awhile.  The Islanders are fine with it. Even if their economy is based on tourism, they prefer things the way they are. By the way, I’m hoping they open soon too.


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## goterps1986

marshac said:


> How are point refunds working when you’ve used banked points from a prior use year with no possibility of using them? Out of luck?


We saved up our points for a big family Aulani trip using 2018 points and some from 2019.  Our use year is June so they were do to expire then.  We had it scheduled for May.  DVC gave people a 6 month extension so we rescheduled for Oct.  Now that’s not going to happen so we stand to lose a LOT of points!  That’s what I know right now.


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## corgi_monster

cgattis said:


> That’s great news.  It also gives me a little reassurance since I’m considering a condo in Maui for a couple of nights (rest at a chain hotel). I generally avoid because of stuff like this.  Glad you got taken care of and it’s great you’re going to stay with the same host; I know it’s tough on them.



All vacation rentals are currently illegal on Oahu, but that's not the case on Maui.  Legally permitted rentals are allowed to operate on Maui, but that can change at any time.  There's generally a 24-36 hour time period between the time the government issues an ordinance/executive order and the start of enforcement so things are changing on a dime.  I just stay home because I can't keep track of what I'm allowed to do anymore.  But I guess that's kind of the point lol!


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## marshac

goterps1986 said:


> We saved up our points for a big family Aulani trip using 2018 points and some from 2019.  Our use year is June so they were do to expire then.  We had it scheduled for May.  DVC gave people a 6 month extension so we rescheduled for Oct.  Now that’s not going to happen so we stand to lose a LOT of points!  That’s what I know right now.



Sorry to hear that! We’re not in a dissimilar position, although the salt in the wound is that our first DVC trip with our purchased points at Aulani is coming up... I’m hoping we’ll be able to go, but it’s looking grim :/


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## corgi_monster

goterps1986 said:


> We saved up our points for a big family Aulani trip using 2018 points and some from 2019.  Our use year is June so they were do to expire then.  We had it scheduled for May.  DVC gave people a 6 month extension so we rescheduled for Oct.  Now that’s not going to happen so we stand to lose a LOT of points!  That’s what I know right now.



Aulani will not be reopening in October.  Honolulu is working away from reopening, not towards it.  

Oahu is going back to stay-at-home/work-at-home starting Thursday.  Retail, sit-down dining, salons, etc will all be closing down.  Then we will enter a strict, phased reopening.   

Maybe you can sell your pints to recoup some of your money?  People have great success selling their DVC points on the DVC rental board.  Good luck!


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## BriarRabbit

https://www.aier.org/article/lockdo...nsmission-rates-or-deaths-new-study-suggests/


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## linzjane88

I logged in to check my bookings for September to find my Jet Blue flight from PDX to LGB was canceled. I never even got any notification! I'm waiting until Thursday to see about rebooking. I figure I have 24 hours to cancel and I am worried if they announce an opening of the park ticket prices will shoot up.
Then again I hate the idea of booking yet another flight that will likely be cancelled. So torn!

When they announced the opening that never happened, how much lead time was there?


Edit: OMG I meant to post this in the DL re-opening thread .(yeah, glutton for punishment. I have pending Disneyland AND Aulani trips I am sweating over cancelling in the next 2 months!)


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## JM23457

I'm starting to get pessimistic about our June '21 trip. I wish this hysteria would end.


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## MightyDuck001

I’m in the zone of having 184 points lost because I saved them to go to Aulani. I know it’s not anyone’s fault and I’m happy to comply and stay home but I do wish I could just save them to use to go to Aulani in the future given that I love the resort and it’s still not open.
Someone told me to just go to Florida and I might’ve started irrationally crying Florida is NOT Hawaii.


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## jkips

There are at least more rapid release tests coming to maker that might - just maybe - enable Hawaii to reopen along the lines that it was initially thinking where they would allow visitors to come to the state without quarantining so long as they had recently tested negative.   Abbott is out today saying they are planning to produce 50 million in October alone of their rapid release tests that just got FDA approval.  The tests take 15 minutes to provide results and will cost $5.   I had all but written off my November trip to Aulani after trying to get the kids tested in California in July but now I’m hoping I was too pessimistic.


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## goterps1986

MightyDuck001 said:


> I’m in the zone of having 184 points lost because I saved them to go to Aulani. I know it’s not anyone’s fault and I’m happy to comply and stay home but I do wish I could just save them to use to go to Aulani in the future given that I love the resort and it’s still not open.
> Someone told me to just go to Florida and I might’ve started irrationally crying Florida is NOT Hawaii.


I hear ya!  We're about to lose over 300.  When we moved it from May to Oct when all this started, we never thought we wouldn't make it.  And yeah Florida is not Hawaii.  We go to FL all the time but this was a graduation trip for our daughter.  And then we have another 150 that we have to use by May.  So guess we'll at least use those to go to FL.

Also, earlier in this thread (or maybe another one) someone had mentioned you can move the points into RCI that can be used later.  So we will do that and try to figure it out later.  We've never done RCI but people talk highly of it and its better than just losing all those points!  It's probably too late for us to rent them (as corgi monster suggested) but it's another option to look at.


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## newdeal

For those of us in Canada going to Florida to use our points isn't even a realistic option.  That said, they can't let you just push your points into the future beyond the current rules as that would create a big problem with too many points and too few rooms.  What they could do but won't is give some sort of maintenance fee subsidy for points that couldn't be used.  We don't have too many that can't be banked till next year but are still hoping for February 2021.  The key will be for us whether Canada will still make a mandatory 14 day quarantine after returning or not as I assume Hawaii will be open but possibly not open in a way that would be realistic for us to go


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## Sepo

jkips said:


> There are at least more rapid release tests coming to maker that might - just maybe - enable Hawaii to reopen along the lines that it was initially thinking where they would allow visitors to come to the state without quarantining so long as they had recently tested negative.   Abbott is out today saying they are planning to produce 50 million in October alone of their rapid release tests that just got FDA approval.  The tests take 15 minutes to provide results and will cost $5.   I had all but written off my November trip to Aulani after trying to get the kids tested in California in July but now I’m hoping I was too pessimistic.


Just make sure it matches Hawaii’s requirements of a NAAT test type. At the moment, the rapids do not suffice that criteria.

Here’s the link for Hawaii’s latest requirements, updated daily. These change all the time:

https://www.gohawaii.com/special-alerts-information


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## shaunacb

newdeal said:


> For those of us in Canada going to Florida to use our points isn't even a realistic option.  That said, they can't let you just push your points into the future beyond the current rules as that would create a big problem with too many points and too few rooms.  What they could do but won't is give some sort of maintenance fee subsidy for points that couldn't be used.  We don't have too many that can't be banked till next year but are still hoping for February 2021.  The key will be for us whether Canada will still make a mandatory 14 day quarantine after returning or not as I assume Hawaii will be open but possibly not open in a way that would be realistic for us to go


We are Canadian and in the exact same position with a Feb Aulani booking. Fingers crossed. Can't quarantine for 14 days upon return.


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## linzjane88

MightyDuck001 said:


> I’m in the zone of having 184 points lost because I saved them to go to Aulani. I know it’s not anyone’s fault and I’m happy to comply and stay home but I do wish I could just save them to use to go to Aulani in the future given that I love the resort and it’s still not open.
> Someone told me to just go to Florida and I might’ve started irrationally crying Florida is NOT Hawaii.



Going to Florida is our backup plan but yeah, it's so not Hawaii . Such a different type of vacation.  Definitely no "Aloha" there! Although if the parks are way way less crowded than my last few visits maybe it will be it's own kind of special. 
Who knows what will end up happening!


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## neurosx1983

Just booked a week at Aulani this Christmas- fingers majorly crossed! Not surprisingly there was wide availability on rooms and villas- with discounts 

However flights from NY area are getting booked up already so maybe that’s a good sign for pent up demand


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## JM23457

neurosx1983 said:


> Just booked a week at Aulani this Christmas- fingers majorly crossed! Not surprisingly there was wide availability on rooms and villas- with discounts
> 
> However flights from NY area are getting booked up already so maybe that’s a good sign for pent up demand


The demand is definitely there. The only question is if they'll let travelers in. I hope they will.


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## Disney_Fan_01

Bali Indonesia just recently announced that they are closed to travelers until end of the year. Unfortunately, I see Aulani heading the same way. I just hope they make that decision soon rather than string everyone along each month.


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## CateinPhoenix

neurosx1983 said:


> Just booked a week at Aulani this Christmas- fingers majorly crossed! Not surprisingly there was wide availability on rooms and villas- with discounts
> 
> However flights from NY area are getting booked up already so maybe that’s a good sign for pent up demand



We tenatively have flights booked.  Did you book Aulani online or call, what discounts were available? 
Thanks!


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## bavaria

Disney_Fan_01 said:


> Bali Indonesia just recently announced that they are closed to travelers until end of the year. Unfortunately, I see Aulani heading the same way. I just hope they make that decision soon rather than string everyone along each month.


And the devastation from that decision will be long lasting. I know the area very, very well (and even had considered spending part of this late autumn/winter there again to avoid COVID) Plans were in place for resorts to open 1st September, which meant that the shop owners, Grab drivers, scooter rentals, restaurants etc which service the tourism industry had some hope of an income. Now that hope has faded even future.

Bali, like Hawaii, struggles with over tourism. It can take 5 hours to travel 30km because there is one road north/south, plugged with tourists sitting 3-4 in an SUV, surrounded by scooters which even cannot go much faster. I think that my record was once doing 2km in one hour. So this has meant a lot of discussion about the future of tourism in Bali, which has been overrun in recent years and is overdeveloped in the south (and the north is somewhat inaccessible unless one wants to commit the time) There is only one beach I use for that stereotypical sandy beach, and it is not accessible to all. Kuta for example is covered with litter, so that amazing sunset is really from what has become a trash heap.

During this time, many Balinese could return to their roots, go back to their families, and return to the simpler life of fishing, simple farming, etc. But the problem is that only supports a small number, and many of the workers are not Balinese themselves (not to mention the many, many young people from Bali who lost their jobs in places like the Maldives, and had to return home) And there are so many people working to support the tourism industry who are not from Bali, and have had to return to their homes, or are trying to 'ride it out' there but if they lose their job, they lose their visa.

Bali and Hawaii share many similarities, as you can see. However, at least for Bali, they had some domestic tourism. (Not much, as the prices are way out of reach for most) But both are facing a big economic crisis, and the 'return to the simple life' is simply not an option for most in either location.


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## neurosx1983

CateinPhoenix said:


> We tenatively have flights booked.  Did you book Aulani online or call, what discounts were available?
> Thanks!



Booked via my agent at Dreams but you can get the same deals online.  We are also thinking about Four Seasons on the big island, but for that week they have a 100 person waiting list already… Hoping to go somewhere at least!


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## jodybird511

neurosx1983 said:


> Booked via my agent at Dreams but you can get the same deals online.  We are also thinking about Four Seasons on the big island, but for that week they have a 100 person waiting list already… Hoping to go somewhere at least!


I'm thinking there is going to be a lot of pent of desire, b/c as we've begun planning for a July 2021 trip, we're finding that some places are already booked up.  For those considering HI travel next summer, I would book now, but obvi only things that are refundable.


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## JM23457

jodybird511 said:


> For those considering HI travel next summer, I would book now, but obvi only things that are refundable.


And with good cancel for any reason travel insurance.


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## notaprincess

linzjane88 said:


> I logged in to check my bookings for September to find my Jet Blue flight from PDX to LGB was canceled. I never even got any notification! I'm waiting until Thursday to see about rebooking. I figure I have 24 hours to cancel and I am worried if they announce an opening of the park ticket prices will shoot up.
> Then again I hate the idea of booking yet another flight that will likely be cancelled. So torn!
> 
> When they announced the opening that never happened, how much lead time was there?
> 
> 
> Edit: OMG I meant to post this in the DL re-opening thread .(yeah, glutton for punishment. I have pending Disneyland AND Aulani trips I am sweating over cancelling in the next 2 months!)


You and me both. I feel your stress. Plus, I was meant to travel from Germany on rented DVC points for both resorts . None of that is obviously happening.


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