# Trading Pins from Ebay



## DaveStroem

I just got some trading pins off of Ebay. They all have Disney Copyrights cast in the back, but I feel that some of them if not all of them might be not quite legitimate. 

I have one that is limited edition of 175 but when I looked at pinpics.com they mentioned that there are a lot of "scrappers" of this pin that have been imported from China. One person over there stated that on a recent trip, he saw over 30 of this "L/E of 175" pin on CM lanyards. 

From what I have been able to learn, these scrappers are from the same source as the legit pins come from but are over runs or 2nds. 

My question is, should I file a claim with Ebay?

Should I return the pins and request a refund?

Should I just not worry about it and let my girls trade the pins? 

When I purchased the pins, I was not aware that there was a black-market of Disney pins. I do not intend to collect pins for resale. I just thought this would be something fun for my girls to do on their first trip. I worry that some CM will tell them that their pins are fake and not trade with them causing a scene and for my girls to become upset. 

TIA Dave


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## anonymousegirl

I think it would be very hard to prove the pin was a scrapper and since you just want to trade in the parks, then I wouldn't do a SNAD. I wouldn't even know who you could get to authenticate the pin.

I would go ahead and trade it at the parks.


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## slduck

We bought some off ebay. Now that I have done some research, I am pretty certain that they are scrappers.  I too just wanted some pins for my dd to trade with CMs.  There are certain lanyard colors that only trade with children, but I can't recall right now. 

If you go to the collectors board waaaay down at the bottom, there is a thread about pins. I am sure that someone could answer your question there.


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## thelionqueen

PLEASE return the pins and file a report with ebay.  We bought some off ebay last year and they were VERY convincing fakes, but fakes none the less.  I returned them, filed a claim with ebay and contacted Disney legal.  I spoke with 2 different agents from Disney legal and they are continuing litigation with this particular seller.

Bottom line, Disney pin trading is SO awesome, and trading fake pins hurts EVERYONE!  If you are fairly certain they are scrappers, they more than likely are.  My family and I are very experienced pin traders (even taught CM's @ WDW how to spot the HUGE amount of fake pins, they were amazed) and HATE having to look at pins before we trade.  Our last trip, we saw no less than 2 fake pins on cm's lanyards.

Do the right thing, send them back, file a claim and contact Disney.  It will take everyone working together to get the fakes out of the parks!!!  Sorry, I'm passionate about a few bad apples ruining one of our families favorite pastimes!


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## Jupiter&Wolfe

Eek! Now I'm afraid of buying off Ebay! I really wanted to get some good pins to get started on my trip...but now I'm not so sure....  


Anyway to tell how legit a seller would be before actually receiving the merchandise???


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## DaveStroem

thelionqueen said:


> Sorry, I'm passionate about a few bad apples ruining one of our families favorite pastimes!




Funny you should say that. The Stitch pirate pin that says "bad apple" is the one that I was talking about.

I don't know for sure if these are scrappers, but I would assume if they are from a bulk purchase that they are. My real question is how to tell the difference?

From what I have read. It seems that the scrappers in many cases are 100% the same pins as the ones that you purchase onsite. In some cases the scrappers are not as glossy. There are also from what I have been reading, counterfeit pins that are not the same as the pins that are sold onsite. These might have different colors or be silver instead of gold.


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## thelionqueen

Jupiter&Wolfe said:


> Eek! Now I'm afraid of buying off Ebay! I really wanted to get some good pins to get started on my trip...but now I'm not so sure....
> 
> 
> Anyway to tell how legit a seller would be before actually receiving the merchandise???



The seller I bought them from was a powerseller with 99% positive feedback with over 3,000 reviews.  Problem is, people don't know they're fake so they're happy as clams.

The easiest way for me to tell (may be harder for novice traders) is the weight and color.  The fakes are lighter than authentic pins and the sides of the pin are not glossy (hard to explain).  The edges are also somewhat dull and not as smooth.  If you know you have a genuine Disney pin, put it in one hand and the fake in the other, you will easily tell that way (by weight).


Here is what I would look for.  Does or has this person sold many many lots of pins?  If so, where do you think they're getting these pins?  And why are they selling them SO much lower than others?  Basically, if it looks too good to be true, it is.  Old cliche' but true.  Believe me, Disney is actively pursuing these sellers, although it takes SO much time to work its way through the very complicated and massive Disney legal group.  You can find pins cheaper on ebay, but they are from smaller volume sellers that show you the actual pins you're getting.  Best bet, buy them at the parks and trade for other quality pins. 
Imagine how you or your kids would feel if you spent money on authentic and quality Disney pins and traded them for scrap.  That's what really aggravates me.  And people (and CM;s) don't know any better a lot of the time.  Hope that helps


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## WDWTigger72

At one point, I use to love pin trading until (1) So many pins starting coming out and there where just too many to collect because of cost $$$$$ (2) The scrappers that where being found started right after I stopped collecting so it was another strike against it.

The true "Disney" pin collector will be able to tell almost immediately if your pin is a scrapper or not.  Many true "Disney" pin collectors also will not trade unless your have the pin backing containing the price and sku number.  Is this always the case? No, Its up to each pin collector to make their own decision, but there are a good handful who will not trade without the pin backing.  People selling LE pins for 99 cents when they where $15.95 within the parks is usually a good sign its a scrapper.  Although, Cast members receive discounts they don't receive that much of a discount.  Oh btw, Cast member exclusive type pins which are those 175 edition size usually go for a lot more money on ebay.  They don't typically go for cheap money as a trader since they are usually highly sought after.  Many cast members will trade with other pin collectors from the other parks (i.e. Walt Disney World, Disneyland, Tokyo Disneyland, Hong Kong Disneyland, Euro/Paris Disney), although typically all cast members can order the pins usually through their internal web page for cast members.

Most cast members will probably trade their pins still with you, especially if they are not that savvy in pin collecting.  Unfortunatley, Then that scrapper may go to another unsuspecting pin trader.


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## w-family

I feel conflicted.  I have bought pins numerous times on line for my kids to trade.  I only allow them to trade with CastMembers and they have never had a problem.  Though this time, a cast member did take one of my son's pins because it was "missing eyelashes" and she gave him another pin in its place.  But I don't even think hat was one I bought, it was one he traded for.  

I can't afford to pay the high bucks they want in the stores, but my kids really enjoy trading.  I have always checked the backs of the pins when we buy them and they always look legit to me.


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## DaveStroem

I just contacted the seller requesting documentation as to the authenticity of the pins I purchased. (yeah like that is going to happen) I informed her that I believed that the pins she sold me were scrappers. I told her that if she could not provide me with documentation that she will refund my $$$ and I will throw out these sCRAPper pins or else report her to Ebay and to Disney Legal.


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## anonymousegirl

thelionqueen said:


> PLEASE return the pins and file a report with ebay.  We bought some off ebay last year and they were VERY convincing fakes, but fakes none the less.  I returned them, filed a claim with ebay and contacted Disney legal.  I spoke with 2 different agents from Disney legal and they are continuing litigation with this particular seller.
> 
> Bottom line, Disney pin trading is SO awesome, and trading fake pins hurts EVERYONE!  If you are fairly certain they are scrappers, they more than likely are.  My family and I are very experienced pin traders (even taught CM's @ WDW how to spot the HUGE amount of fake pins, they were amazed) and HATE having to look at pins before we trade.  Our last trip, we saw no less than 2 fake pins on cm's lanyards.
> 
> Do the right thing, send them back, file a claim and contact Disney.  It will take everyone working together to get the fakes out of the parks!!!  Sorry, I'm passionate about a few bad apples ruining one of our families favorite pastimes!



I am normally very against fakes/counterfeits being resold/gifted/traded way, but in the cases of clothing and purses, there are people that can authenticate these items. Who authenticates Disney pins?

Also, since many of these pins are being made by authorized factories, it is very hard to tell the difference between good pins and scrappers. An older gold tone backing might appear silver, and how does the average buyer know about the exact placement of the official disney copyright stamp?

I just think that unlike other counterfeited products, Disney scrapper pins fall into a grey area and will be very hard to avoid get some at some point during trading.


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## thelionqueen

w-family said:


> I feel conflicted.  I have bought pins numerous times on line for my kids to trade.  I only allow them to trade with CastMembers and they have never had a problem.  Though this time, a cast member did take one of my son's pins because it was "missing eyelashes" and she gave him another pin in its place.  But I don't even think hat was one I bought, it was one he traded for.
> 
> I can't afford to pay the high bucks they want in the stores, but my kids really enjoy trading.  I have always checked the backs of the pins when we buy them and they always look legit to me.



Pin trading is not an inexpensive venture.  Im not suggesting that the ones you bought are fake, but if you're buying them for significantly less than in the parks they are probably not authentic.

Just don't let the cost of this hobby drive your decision to make the right choice.  Buying fake pins and trading them into the system for others that paid for the authentic pins hurts everyone!


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## ttbell

Unfortunately, I just pulled out all of the pins I bought my girls for their first visit (purchased from ebay) and I realize that they are counterfeit. When I first got them, I thought they seemed cheap but didn't pursue it.

The only reason I went to ebay to buy them is because I went to the Disney store asking if they had any and the employee told me to go on ebay...that I could save a lot of money getting them there instead.

I guess if it's too good to be true, it is! Do I bother to contact the seller or just throw them out?


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## WDWTigger72

I would make every attempt to contact the seller regarding the pins you purchased, and if need be I am sure you can send a message to Ebay and Disney legal regarding the matter, and also include the sellers Ebay screen name and any other information they may ask for.  The seller could very well have documentation such as a pin backing, receipt, etc so you may want to message them first.  You will probably find out pretty quickly whether or not your pin is a scrapper, unless you have already researched it and found out.


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## DaveStroem

This is the one that set me off on this
http://www.pinpics.com/cgi-bin/pin.cgi?pin=58347

I have tried to look up others but there are so many that my eyes are going fuzzy. 

I still don't know what I will do. My girls are excited about trading pins but I can not afford to pay over $6 each for pins. Especially if they end up trading for other scrappers. 

My current leaning is to let them trade for pins that they like and not to worry if any of them are legit. I don't ever intend to resell them and am definitely not looking at them as investment collectibles. 

Ignorance is bliss, knowledge not so much.


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## ttbell

So I requested documentation from the seller and his response: He wants ME to provide documentation showing that the pins are not authentic.


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## WDWTigger72

ttbell said:
			
		

> So I requested documentation from the seller and his response: He wants ME to provide documentation showing that the pins are not authentic.


 
Well, That makes things easy regarding whether they are a trusted seller or not.  I have traded pins just recently to another senior pin collector, and they asked me if I had the pin backings or receipts.  Now, I hadn't collected pins since back in 2002 arena, and I was a little bit shocked by this question/request.  Luckily, I had all the pin backings still and the receipts from all my purchases.  It was easy enough for me to scan the receipts and remove things like my credit card info that maybe left on it, and having the pin backings just closed the deal.  Most will only ask for pin backings!  Remember these senior pin collectors see it as a serious hobby and investment so that is why pin backings are usually requested.  If this seller cannot even provide you this then you know what you have possibly received.


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## letthewookiewin

If you have any trouble getting the ebay seller to contact you back, and you paid through paypal, you can get your money back through them.  Just contact paypal and let them know that the pins are authentic pins.  Also threaten them with giving them negative feedback.  Some sellers aren't paying much attention to it anymore, but some still are.  The way they have it set up, you can give a seller a negative, but the seller can't give you one.  Then you can offer to send the pins to Disney legal for them to help the case against the ebay seller.  I would contact ebay and Disney legal about this person. I am sure Disney has someone that can authenticate the pins, and having the actual pins will help the case. This person is not only bad for Disney pin trading, but for the honest ebay sellers (like my mom).


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## ttbell

What exactly is a pin backing? Is it the plastic piece the pin is attached to when you buy?


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## Disnsyncey

aw man, I was all excited to get some pins from ebay to trade next time we're in the parks!!


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## DaveStroem

I did hear back from her. She claims to be a "fellow pin trader" that gets her pins from Disneyland and other pin traders. She apologized for the one pin that I was able to identify as being a scrapper but insisted that I return the pins if I want a refund. (so she can sell them to the next dupe). 

I have gone over many of the others and have notice upon close inspection things like a small dimple in the enamel or missing enamel in a small section.

I can't understand how Ebay and Disney let this go on. There are tons and tons of these pin lots all over the Internet. Selling these counterfeit pins is a crime. Once they mail them using USPS like mine came, I believe it elevates to a federal crime. 

This whole pin trading mess has given me a massive headache and is about as far away from Magical as you can get.


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## WDWTigger72

ttbell said:
			
		

> What exactly is a pin backing? Is it the plastic piece the pin is attached to when you buy?


 
Yes, Its usually that black plastic card that has the price of the pin and sku number on the back of it.


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## DaveStroem

My other concern, is if I return these pins and purchase pins in the park for the kids to trade, what will keep them from getting junk pins from a CM's lanyard. 

Disney needs to figure out a better way to control this. Also, why doesn't Disney put the pins # on the back of them?


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## lugnut33

OK, so mine might be "scrappers" since I bought them on E-bay.  However, I do know that he ones I got are all really high quantity runs that go for pennies on the open market whether they are real or fake.


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## ttbell

This seller is just giving me a run around and honestly it's too much of a headache to pursue this. While he took down the previous item (which I bought), here is the next lot he/she has up. Note: My pins did not come from this particular lot. But maybe you can tell if he's on the up and up?
ebay item #190288965490 (can't post the link, only 7 posts so far)
I think #50 is the Bad Apple pin!


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## DaveStroem

It sure is. Hmmm, LE of 175 and they are showing up everywhere. LOL


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## letthewookiewin

DaveStroem said:


> I did hear back from her. She claims to be a "fellow pin trader" that gets her pins from Disneyland and other pin traders. She apologized for the one pin that I was able to identify as being a scrapper but insisted that I return the pins if I want a refund. (so she can sell them to the next dupe).
> 
> I have gone over many of the others and have notice upon close inspection things like a small dimple in the enamel or missing enamel in a small section.
> 
> I can't understand how Ebay and Disney let this go on. There are tons and tons of these pin lots all over the Internet. Selling these counterfeit pins is a crime. Once they mail them using USPS like mine came, I believe it elevates to a federal crime.
> 
> This whole pin trading mess has given me a massive headache and is about as far away from Magical as you can get.



Honestly as long as Ebay is getting their money, I don't think they really care.  They don't like to get involved with disputes between sellers and buyers.  It would really be better to get Disney legal involved and get your money back through paypal.  An unhonest seller isn't going to come out, and admit that they are anything other than authentic.


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## lacrosse_lady72

letthewookiewin said:


> Honestly as long as Ebay is getting their money, I don't think they really care.  They don't like to get involved with disputes between sellers and buyers.  It would really be better to get Disney legal involved and get your money back through paypal.  An unhonest seller isn't going to come out, and admit that they are anything other than authentic.



I agree. It's unfortunate and appauling but I don't forsee anything changing anytime soon.


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## letthewookiewin

lacrosse_lady72 said:


> I agree. It's unfortunate and appauling but I don't forsee anything changing anytime soon.



I don't either.  My mom and I saw a lot of good honest sellers ran off of Ebay b/c they didn't like the changes that Ebay made.  My best suggestion for anyone buying anything off of Ebay, is to ask before bidding if the seller can prove that the item they are selling is authentic and to save the response they give you.  The only Disney thing that I bought off of Ebay were antenna balls and I bought off of someone with over 10k feedback.


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## ctaci

Thanks for this thread.  DS10 got 6 pins while down in WDW last week and came home wanting more off of ebay.. he must have heard it from the world that they were on ebay as well.  I told him I wouldnt get him the pins off of ebay because part of the pin trading experience is just that -- the experience.

Ill get him some pins when I go down.  Ill take his laynard that he started and buy some more and maybe also trade while Im there.  Itll be a collaborative effort.


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## mountdew1

The problem with pins is that for the most part, there is nothing to determine what one pin costs more than another other than scarcity.  Yes, some that have moving parts, gems, whatever, are a little more, but what separates a 8.95 Stitch pin from a 14.95 Stitch pin other than the text on the back that says LE of 1250?  Not much.  So there is alot of motivation for people to create the knock offs.  When people can prove to ebay that something is a fake, they will take it down.  But when many people can't tell the difference between them, it's hard for Disney to make a case.  The odds of finding a legit rare pin on a lanyard now are slim.  The market has been flooded with pins.  5 or 6 years ago I got some great LE's off of lanyards right after the CM walked on stage, but the variety of pins was greater.  Now many lanyards have the same pins on them.  As long as you are looking to trade for a pin that you like, shouldn't matter to you if it was sold by Disney, or fell off the truck.  If you are looking to profit on them, well, thats tough.  
Not all bulk sellers sell lost of scrappers.  Many sellers do buy large collections from collectors who are getting out of it, and just want to make a few bucks back.  Outside of the small trading market, not much value for pins.  So if Joe Schmo lives in NY, not a big community he can sell the pins to unless he goes online.  So he sells em to a power ebay seller, who cannibalizes the good pins, and then dumps the rest for cheap.


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## Tomh

DaveStroem said:


> I can't understand how Ebay and Disney let this go on. There are tons and tons of these pin lots all over the Internet. Selling these counterfeit pins is a crime. Once they mail them using USPS like mine came, I believe it elevates to a federal crime.
> 
> This whole pin trading mess has given me a massive headache and is about as far away from Magical as you can get.
> 
> My other concern, is if I return these pins and purchase pins in the park for the kids to trade, what will keep them from getting junk pins from a CM's lanyard.
> 
> Disney needs to figure out a better way to control this. Also, why doesn't Disney put the pins # on the back of them?



I'm sure this post will incur the wrath of the pin gods, and start a giant flame war, but here it goes:  Disney is indeed the ONLY entity that can stop the counterfeit pin selling, yet they aren't stopping it.  They choose to manufacture their pins in China, knowing full well that the factories are making lots of extras, and selling them illegally, and they do nothing about it.  The fakes can often be nearly impossible to identify, indeed many of them are identical to the real thing, manufactured to the same specifications in the same factory.

There is NO way for the average person to tell with 100% certainty that a pin is legitimate, unless it comes with the backing and receipt, and I bet it won't be long before someone will be marketing fake pins with those included as well.

As many very experienced pin traders have said here on the forums many different times, even the CM's often have fakes on their lanyards, so even if you are buying legitimate pins for your kids to trade, there is no way to be certain that they won't wind up with scrappers when they trade with CM's.

Those who are really serious about pin trading can request backing, and receipts for pins they trade, and as for everyone else who is letting their kids trade with the CM's, I wouldn't worry about it too much.  Odds are half of the pins that they get FROM the CM's are going to be scrappers, so trade what you got, and don't sweat it too much.  If it doesn't bother Disney enough for them to do something about it, then you shouldn't let it bother you that much either.


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## thelionqueen

DaveStroem said:


> I did hear back from her. She claims to be a "fellow pin trader" that gets her pins from Disneyland and other pin traders. She apologized for the one pin that I was able to identify as being a scrapper but insisted that I return the pins if I want a refund. (so she can sell them to the next dupe).
> 
> I have gone over many of the others and have notice upon close inspection things like a small dimple in the enamel or missing enamel in a small section.
> 
> I can't understand how Ebay and Disney let this go on. There are tons and tons of these pin lots all over the Internet. Selling these counterfeit pins is a crime. Once they mail them using USPS like mine came, I believe it elevates to a federal crime.
> 
> This whole pin trading mess has given me a massive headache and is about as far away from Magical as you can get.



I TOTALLY agree that hunting down fakes and hemming and hawing if they are real or not is as far from magical as it gets.

That said, that is why it is even more important to do our part.  Send the pins back, get a refund and contact Disney legal.  Believe me, I have had long conversations with Disney legal and (as slow as it goes) they ARE working on this huge problem.

If we can educate and have people do what we are doing, we can at least let these sellers know that WE know what they're up to.  We can make it a little more difficult to sell the pins (by leaving negative feedback, getting refunds, etc.)  I'm hoping that just a PHONE CALL to some of these sellers from Disney Legal dept. will let them know they are being watched.  

I can tell you that the seller I reported is NO LONGER selling pins, so that is one victory.  It will take time and effort, but I for one LOVE pin trading and want its legacy to continue for my kids and theirs, that's why I'm doing my part.  

I'm glad that there are some people learning more about this and taking action to preserve their pin trading experience and also being more aware of the problem.  That being said, don't give up on pin trading, it's a blast, just be aware and informed!!!


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## Brian_WDW74

I've moved this thread to the Collectors board.


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## mareed

Tomh said:


> Those who are really serious about pin trading can request backing, and receipts for pins they trade, and as for everyone else who is letting their kids trade with the CM's, I wouldn't worry about it too much.  Odds are half of the pins that they get FROM the CM's are going to be scrappers, so trade what you got, and don't sweat it too much.  If it doesn't bother Disney enough for them to do something about it, then you shouldn't let it bother you that much either.



I'm in the category of people with kids trading with the CM's and agree with the post quoted here...  I've also purchased some pins online and some of them may be scrappers.    I don't know and don't really care.  My kids enjoy pin-trading with CM's and there's no way we'd be doing it at Disney's insane prices.  We may be trading with and for scrappers, but that's fine with me!  

I don't expect to trade with the "serious" traders who are set up at the key pin-trading spots with their huge books and I'm sure they wouldn't be interested in anything we have to trade anyway!    IMO that's a completely different category of pin-trading and is not what we want at all.  

We don't see pins as any kind of investment at all - it's just a fun activity to do while at Disney and a fun way to remember the trips later (looking at the pins).  This is manageable at under $2 per pin, but not at Disney's prices!


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## CandleontheWater

I am a recreational pin trader, and I really love the hobby so I am also really concerned about buying fakes off ebay.  When I was first starting I'm sure that I purchased scrappers and traded them in the parks, because I didn't even realize that there was such a thing as a fake pin.  Now I've gotten a little more savvy, but I'm sure I still come home from the parks with a large portion of scrappers.  I don't think there is really any way to avoid it if you are going to lanyard trade with CMs.  I've even pointed out some fakes that Cms have had on thier lanyard, and most of them didn't seem too concerned.  

I have found that a large majority of fakes are the hidden mickey cast lanyard pins, so I've pretty much stopped trading for them.  I also will not buy cast lanyard pins off ebay.  I try to buy most of my pins from the Disney outlet, which has decent prices and that way at least I know that I'm not putting junk on lanyards (even if I sometimes recieve junk in return).  If I do buy off ebay, I will buy from people that don't list large numbers of pins, and pin lots that don't contain a majority of cast lanyard pins. I figure if you buy from someone who doesn't have a large quantity or doesn't usually sell pins that they are probably not big time dealers in conterfits. I don't know if this is the best option, but it helps me sleep better at night.


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## thelionqueen

mareed said:


> I'm in the category of people with kids trading with the CM's and agree with the post quoted here...  I've also purchased some pins online and some of them may be scrappers.    I don't know and don't really care.  My kids enjoy pin-trading with CM's and there's no way we'd be doing it at Disney's insane prices.  We may be trading with and for scrappers, but that's fine with me!
> 
> I don't expect to trade with the "serious" traders who are set up at the key pin-trading spots with their huge books and I'm sure they wouldn't be interested in anything we have to trade anyway!    IMO that's a completely different category of pin-trading and is not what we want at all.
> 
> We don't see pins as any kind of investment at all - it's just a fun activity to do while at Disney and a fun way to remember the trips later (looking at the pins).  This is manageable at under $2 per pin, but not at Disney's prices!



I think there is a misconception here.  Because your children enjoy trading (and I totally get the "I just want to trade" children's philosphy) they are in a different category than "serious" traders?  It seems to me you're seemingly justifying buying and trading fake pins because you're not trading with "serious" traders. 
The whole idea for pin trading is that it's for everyone.  I agree that Disney's prices are high for pins, as they are for everything they sell.  My opinion is that if you cannot afford to buy the pins, that Disney created pin trading for, then you should not be trading.  I don't mean to sound harsh, but it's true. 

By that analogy I should not be working because making counterfeit money is so much easier and, since not too many people can tell, it's ok (yes I understand the legal ramifications of counterfeit currency, just a dramatic comparison )

I totally understand that the majority of people who buy pins off ebay don't know they're fake.  But if you're buying pins for $2 or less a piece in huge lots, bottom line, they're fake, no matter how much they look authentic.

I agree with the PP re: cast lanyard pins as well.  The majority of them are fake.  Sadly, we have opted to stay away from them as much as we can..it is SO tempting too..UGH!

Sorry to be so direct, but it just really aggravates me when people intentionally do something they know is wrong...rant over...


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## zuly

I just bought some pins from ebay (tradepinsforyou) last week, I am waiting for them to arrived (theyre supposed to arrived this week).That was my first time buying on ebay my firsts Disney pins since I have always wanted to began in pin trading and nevr took the chance .This year after a lot of thinking and trips I ask my DH that I want a lanyard ,pins and this is my birthday gift my innitiation in pin trading for our upcoming trip this summer .I was so excited and I think Im still am but this thing with fake pins is driving me crazy  
I just want to have fun and collect pins that I find pretty just for me !!!!


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## Tomh

thelionqueen said:


> By that analogy I should not be working because making counterfeit money is so much easier and, since not too many people can tell, it's ok (yes I understand the legal ramifications of counterfeit currency, just a dramatic comparison )



I wonder, if the government weren't doing anything to stop counterfeiting (and we all know that they are), and counterfeit money was being handed out everywhere, including at the bank when you cash your paycheck, and no one, including the tellers at the bank could tell the difference between the real money, and the fake money, and you earned some money in good faith, then began to question it's authenticity after receiving it, would you go to great lengths to determine if it was real or not, or would you simply use it, and figure if someone refused to accept it, then you would deal with it?

I'm a pretty honest person, or at least I like to think that I am.  I have to tell you though, if there were no real penalty for having counterfeit money, and it were handled the way that trading pins are, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

Now then, would I purposely buy pins that I KNEW were fake, no, that wouldn't be right.  However, if the pins are purchased in good faith, and I later begin to question whether they are real or not, unless I know for certain 100% that they aren't good (and I have a couple that fit into that category), then I don't worry myself about it.  If my kids should try to trade a pin with a CM, and be told that the pin is not authentic, then I will put that pin away, they can keep it and enjoy it for themselves (hasn't happened yet), but as long as the CM's accept them, then I will assume that they are good.  If the CM's don't know the difference, well then I guess Disney isn't putting too much effort into training them.  In the end, I stand by what I said before, it is up to Disney to control this, and if, with all their resources, they can't do anything about it, then I don't feel that it is my responsibility to spend hours trying to authenticate every pin that my kids get.


----------



## ttbell

zuly said:


> I just bought some pins from ebay (tradepinsforyou) last week, I am waiting for them to arrived (theyre supposed to arrived this week).That was my first time buying on ebay my firsts Disney pins since I have always wanted to began in pin trading and nevr took the chance .This year after a lot of thinking and trips I ask my DH that I want a lanyard ,pins and this is my birthday gift my innitiation in pin trading for our upcoming trip this summer .I was so excited and I think Im still am but this thing with fake pins is driving me crazy
> I just want to have fun and collect pins that I find pretty just for me !!!!



This is the ebay seller that I am having the problem with. I asked him to provide documentation for authenticity and he just keeps responding back telling me that I need to provide documentation they they are fake. I'm not going to let my kids trade these and am just going to chalk it up to $40 lesson learned. I'll know better next time!


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## karrit2000

To clarify the history of this pin it was a purchase with purchase pin.  It was "officially" only available to those who participated in the Pirates of Castaway Cay event onboard the Disney Wonder ship in November of 2007.  To be able to purchase this pin legitimately one had to be on the cruise, participating in the event and have spent $450 or more on event merchandise to be eligible to purchase this pin.  If there are large numbers of these pins now circulating draw your own conclusion.  I do own the "official" version of the pin since I was a particpant in the event.  It really bothers me that people continue to make money off of those who are new to pin trading who think they are getting a great deal when purchasing off e-bay.  I have a large number of scrappers in my collection that I have gotten trading off cast members and even off of boards at Official Disney Pin Trading Events.  These scrappers & the scum that sell them have ruined a once enjoyable hobby.  The Stitch pin in question did not come with any type of backer card.  They were given to us in little plastic bags that were either sealed or stapled shut.  Unfortunately this is how the majority of scrappers are sold.  Many believe them to be legitimate because they receive them in these "sealed" packages.  I had someone try to get me to trade for some "Official Cast Lanyard" pins that they had just purchased still in their nicely sealed bags.  I politely said "no thank you" and walked away.


----------



## thelionqueen

Everyone has rules they have to live by, and as long as you're happy with the decisions you make then it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.  I'm simply stating my opinion and agree with some points you brought up.  But I don't rely on someone else changing the wrongs in the world, I do my part.  I'm not going to sit back and say "well it's up to you to prove what I'm doing is wrong".  I know what I do, and take responsibility for it, and don't make excuses for it either.

Sure the canvas bags I take to the store are a "drop in the bucket" in the effort to save the planet, but I'm doing my part.  If everyone made an effort to do the same, well, the answer is clear.

I personally live my live as an example to my children and I've seen their honesty and respect shine through in many different ways and at unexpected times.  

And I also stand by my comments; if you can't afford to pin trade as it was intended (buying and trading authentic Disney pins), then you should find another activity that works better within your budget.

Pin trading doesn't weigh up there with global warming or recycling, but in general it boils down to what works for you.  Personally, damaging the integrity of a hobby that I love is something I'm not willing to turn a blind eye to, but that's just me.


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## mareed

thelionqueen said:


> I think there is a misconception here.  Because your children enjoy trading (and I totally get the "I just want to trade" children's philosphy) they are in a different category than "serious" traders?  It seems to me you're seemingly justifying buying and trading fake pins because you're not trading with "serious" traders.
> The whole idea for pin trading is that it's for everyone.  I agree that Disney's prices are high for pins, as they are for everything they sell.  My opinion is that if you cannot afford to buy the pins, that Disney created pin trading for, then you should not be trading.  I don't mean to sound harsh, but it's true.
> 
> By that analogy I should not be working because making counterfeit money is so much easier and, since not too many people can tell, it's ok (yes I understand the legal ramifications of counterfeit currency, just a dramatic comparison )
> 
> I totally understand that the majority of people who buy pins off ebay don't know they're fake.  But if you're buying pins for $2 or less a piece in huge lots, bottom line, they're fake, no matter how much they look authentic.
> 
> I agree with the PP re: cast lanyard pins as well.  The majority of them are fake.  Sadly, we have opted to stay away from them as much as we can..it is SO tempting too..UGH!
> 
> Sorry to be so direct, but it just really aggravates me when people intentionally do something they know is wrong...rant over...



Well...  Difference of opinion here obviously, because I'm not doing something I *know*is wrong.    I certainly like to think I know right from wrong, and I can sleep at night just fine with my decisions and I imagine you can with yours also!  You may *think* I'm wrong, but as has been pointed out, obviously Disney doesn't think so or they'd stop CM's from trading for "scrappers".  

I'm able to let my kids freely trade for whatever they want without having to tell them "no, that cast lanyard pin is a scrapper and you can't trade for it".  That sounds rather sad to me.    I prefer to let my kids trade for what they want.

We've been pin-trading since 2001.  I started that trip by purchasing pins from the Disney store for 68 cents!  I think I bought 100 of those Winnie the Pooh birthstone pins and wish that I'd bought 1000 of them!  Since then, I've purchased pins to trade at various times from specials on the Disney Store and various internet sellers - generally paying around $2 or less.  And I've had no trouble trading any of those pins at DL or WDW.  It's only fairly recently that I've even heard the term "scrapper".  I've looked at the pins we have to trade, and I don't see anything different about them from the pins that we trade for on CM lanyards.

I do really believe that there are different categories of pin-traders.  My term of "serious" may not have been the best, but have you seen some of the people at the Downtown Disny pin-trading shop or outside the Epcot station near the fountain?  This is what I was calling "serious" and I don't think that my kids' pin trading with CM's that may (or may not) end up trading scrappers has any effect on that other type of trader - whatever they may be called.  

To the OP and others who are concerned about "scrapper" pins.  Do what your conscience guides you to do.  If you can't sleep at night for worrying that the pins you purchased from Ebay may be scrappers, then by all means throw them in the trash and get them out of circulation!  If your question is "Will I be able to trade these with CM's at WDW?"...  I can tell you the answer is "yes".


----------



## mareed

DaveStroem said:


> I worry that some CM will tell them that their pins are fake and not trade with them causing a scene and for my girls to become upset.
> 
> TIA Dave



OK - getting back to the OP's concern...  No need to worry - the CM's will accept your pins for trade just fine and will not cause any sort of a scene and make your girls upset.   

Enjoy your trip!


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## thelionqueen

mareed said:


> Well...  Difference of opinion here obviously, because I'm not doing something I *know*is wrong.    I certainly like to think I know right from wrong, and I can sleep at night just fine with my decisions and I imagine you can with yours also!  You may *think* I'm wrong, but as has been pointed out, obviously Disney doesn't think so or they'd stop CM's from trading for "scrappers".
> 
> I'm able to let my kids freely trade for whatever they want without having to tell them "no, that cast lanyard pin is a scrapper and you can't trade for it".  That sounds rather sad to me.    I prefer to let my kids trade for what they want.
> 
> We've been pin-trading since 2001.  I started that trip by purchasing pins from the Disney store for 68 cents!  I think I bought 100 of those Winnie the Pooh birthstone pins and wish that I'd bought 1000 of them!  Since then, I've purchased pins to trade at various times from specials on the Disney Store and various internet sellers - generally paying around $2 or less.  And I've had no trouble trading any of those pins at DL or WDW.  It's only fairly recently that I've even heard the term "scrapper".  I've looked at the pins we have to trade, and I don't see anything different about them from the pins that we trade for on CM lanyards.
> 
> I do really believe that there are different categories of pin-traders.  My term of "serious" may not have been the best, but have you seen some of the people at the Downtown Disny pin-trading shop or outside the Epcot station near the fountain?  This is what I was calling "serious" and I don't think that my kids' pin trading with CM's that may (or may not) end up trading scrappers has any effect on that other type of trader - whatever they may be called.
> 
> To the OP and others who are concerned about "scrapper" pins.  Do what your conscience guides you to do.  If you can't sleep at night for worrying that the pins you purchased from Ebay may be scrappers, then by all means throw them in the trash and get them out of circulation!  If your question is "Will I be able to trade these with CM's at WDW?"...  I can tell you the answer is "yes".



There is no question that the pins can be traded at WDW, they can.  It's been posted here several times that the fakes are hard to spot even for CM's, so I hope that clears up the question of "can they be traded"..YES they can.  The issue is SHOULD they be traded, my OPINION is a definite NO.

The affect of your children trading with a "serious" trader or a CM is not the issue.  I let my kids trade for whatever they want.  And my sons usually pick ones that are the least desirable..so be it, they are desireable to them.  The issue here is the damage to pin trading in general.  It doesn't matter who you trade with, fake pins infiltrate the entire pin trading community in the worst possible way.

I have no problems with kids trading pins for what they want, but shouldn't they be actual pins?  Actual Disney pins that is why pin trading was created for?  the answer is yes.  I have also bought pins at the Disney Store (those are ligitimate Disney manufactured pins and are tradeable at the parks) and on sale, but ALL of them are authentic pins.  I always try to find a deal (Disney Store sales, past season markdowns, etc) to help my pin trading budget, but the bottom line is, they are all Disney pins!  I know this because I buy them from Disney; easiest way to determine if they're real Disney pins as far as I can tell is to buy them from Disney.

Of COURSE Disney is going to trade "scrappers" with kids.  Can you imagine what an absolute nightmare it would be if a child was denied a trade and a CM told them their pin was fake?   They won't risk making pin trading less-than-magical for kids, who likely don't know any different.  It's us as adults that make the decisions we live with.  That's my point.  There will always be someone to spoil it for everyone..the old saying "one bad apple" comes to mind.  

I do not care how anyone else sleeps, and to state again, everyone needs to do what is right for them.  People have different values than mine, which is fine by me.  I make the decision to do what I do, and so do you..period.  

The question here is what is morally correct.  That is something each individual needs to answer for themselves, and I'm not here trying to make that answer for anyone.  I'm stating my opinion, and what I do and pointing out facts that others may not know.

You can qualify and quantify buying and trading fake pins however you want, and you may think it's the greatest thing in the world.  But the bottom line is, fake pins create issues in all areas of pin trading, and at some level Disney will either pull the plug, or make it a less than magical experience for those of us who enjoy doing it, and do it the way it was intended.


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## Luv2Roam

I am 100% certain I have traded for scrappers, bootlegs and lord knows what else from CM lanyards. 
From personal experience it seems like whatever I trade for in the DTD falls into the unknown range. Some fake pins are more obvious than others.  Not that this is not rampart in all WDW property.
As someone stated, unless you buy a pin direct from Disney you really have no way of knowing 100% it is not a fake.
Sometimes a fake is obvious. Many times no difference what so ever.
I go with the philosophy that as long as you like it...
The Disney powers that be will need to do something about this if it really matters to them. I let them be the pin police.
I would not buy pins from Ebay anyway for a variety of reasons. (Although I certainly use to years ago.) But easy for me to say when I am just miles from all the pins I could ever want.


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## vorpalswrd

Here's the way I see it. Until Disney stops producing pins in China this will continue to be a large problem (as opposed to a small problem if the pins were produced here let's say). Here is a document from eBay. I can't afford a bunch of pins, scrappers or otherwise. So I will stick with my pressed pennies. At least I get to do something besides hand over my cash. *crank crank crank*


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## Luv2Roam

I looked at the Ebay auction 190288965490. I don't know this seller or know anything about them, good or bad. However if ANYONE offered a LE175 pin in a pile of (what I call) common pins, and for a cheap price, that would be the first clue right there. (HELLO!  )

And it could be this person just traded for these pins in the parks like anyone else.  The Bad Apple pin, I doubt that very much though on that particular pin. Gotta be a fake. That's pretty much a guarantee there.

Your best bet is just keep what you have and report them to Disney attorneys, as someone else here has reported someone.

I always feel bad for those collectors and traders who have the real pin as it devalues theirs somewhat.

Always just get what you personally want. Not what you think may be an investment. You have to figure on collecting and trading pins for enjoyment only. Otherwise it no longer will be.


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## DaveStroem

I just got the email address & phone number for reporting counterfeits, scrappers & bootlegs to Disney.  

The phone number is 818-560-3300 and the email is tips@disneyantipiracy.com 

I have left negative feedback for the seller, and will tonight be filing a paypal dispute as well as forwarding this sellers information and details to the above email. I will not be returning these pins to the seller for her to rip off others. 

Unfortunately, I doubt that this will make any difference.


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## thelionqueen

DaveStroem said:


> I just got the email address & phone number for reporting counterfeits, scrappers & bootlegs to Disney.
> 
> The phone number is 818-560-3300 and the email is tips@disneyantipiracy.com
> 
> I have left negative feedback for the seller, and will tonight be filing a paypal dispute as well as forwarding this sellers information and details to the above email. I will not be returning these pins to the seller for her to rip off others.
> 
> Unfortunately, I doubt that this will make any difference.



You DID make a difference!!!  Thank you for doing what you did, you rock!!


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## junebugTN

thelionqueen said:


> There is no question that the pins can be traded at WDW, they can.  It's been posted here several times that the fakes are hard to spot even for CM's, so I hope that clears up the question of "can they be traded"..YES they can.  The issue is SHOULD they be traded, my OPINION is a definite NO.
> 
> The affect of your children trading with a "serious" trader or a CM is not the issue.  I let my kids trade for whatever they want.  And my sons usually pick ones that are the least desirable..so be it, they are desireable to them.  The issue here is the damage to pin trading in general.  It doesn't matter who you trade with, fake pins infiltrate the entire pin trading community in the worst possible way.



Well said, lionqueen.  It breaks my heart when I hear parents say, "well my kids aren't serious traders, so it doesn't matter..."  Remember that the pins you trade do go from the CM's lanyard to be traded to other kids at Disney.  Do you really want to knowingly distribute pins to other children when you know in your heart that they're scrappers?

My daughter traded for some pins off of CM lanyards that, when she tried to trade them later, the next CM explained that they were fakes.  The CM handled it well, but it was still an un-magical moment.   

I know this sounds corny, but my favorite part of visiting Disney is the magic and innocence of the whole place.  I hope those parents that knowingly trade suspicious pins will reconsider and keep the experience magical for ALL the kids.   

June


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## junebugTN

DaveStroem said:


> I have left negative feedback for the seller, and will tonight be filing a paypal dispute as well as forwarding this sellers information and details to the above email. I will not be returning these pins to the seller for her to rip off others.
> 
> Unfortunately, I doubt that this will make any difference.



Dave, I also wanted to say thanks for doing this.  I REALLY appreciate that you didn't take the easy way out and just trade the pins.  I hope that you are rewarded with lots of magical moments on your upcoming trip!   

June


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## letthewookiewin

thelionqueen said:


> You DID make a difference!!!  Thank you for doing what you did, you rock!!



Totally agree!!



DaveStroem said:


> I just got the email address & phone number for reporting counterfeits, scrappers & bootlegs to Disney.
> 
> The phone number is 818-560-3300 and the email is tips@disneyantipiracy.com
> 
> I have left negative feedback for the seller, and will tonight be filing a paypal dispute as well as forwarding this sellers information and details to the above email. I will not be returning these pins to the seller for her to rip off others.
> 
> Unfortunately, I doubt that this will make any difference.



It may not feel that you have done much, but you have.  If enough people get their money back from paypal for non-authentic pins then it will put them out of business.  Have a magical trip and have fun with pin trading.  We haven't really gotten to pin trade on trip before b/c we just didn't have the extra money.  For this next trip I am saving money just for that purpose.


----------



## mareed

junebugTN said:


> My daughter traded for some pins off of CM lanyards that, when she tried to trade them later, the next CM explained that they were fakes.  The CM handled it well, but it was still an un-magical moment.
> June



I'm curious as to whether the CM explained how they knew they were fakes...  As I've said, I certainly haven't ever been able to tell anything different about pins I've purchased or traded, so I am curious what it was that the CM saw that made them determine they were fake.  For knowledge sake, I really would like to know how to tell.     It sounds to me like it was more a case of a grumpy CM, and we all know that unfortunately, there are a few of those around...

On a similar note, my DS really wanted a pin that I could tell was damaged in that it had a sort of hole in it where another piece should have been.  He traded the CM for it, and has now decided that he no longer wants it and is putting it back into our "trader" bag.  I don't feel right trading that back, and I expect the CM wouldn't accept it as it's obviously damaged, but he DID get it originally from a CM.  My other DS traded for a silver monorail pin that originally had a name at the bottom, but that someone had done a pretty good job of polishing off the name.  (Pins with names aren't tradeable.)  I wouldn't feel right trading back that pin either because even I can tell that it's been altered (i.e. damaged).  I suspect someone bought these really cheaply on clearance and polished off the names and then sold them as traders.  These 2 examples are pins that clearly shouldn't be traded to me, but I have a much harder time with the concept of scrappers where you can't tell the difference. 

I realize that most on this thread think I'm an evil thief, but I'm honestly interested in learning what it is that distinguishes a scrapper...  Educate me!


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## ttbell

DaveStroem said:


> I just got the email address & phone number for reporting counterfeits, scrappers & bootlegs to Disney.
> 
> The phone number is 818-560-3300 and the email is
> 
> I have left negative feedback for the seller, and will tonight be filing a paypal dispute as well as forwarding this sellers information and details to the above email. I will not be returning these pins to the seller for her to rip off others.
> 
> Unfortunately, I doubt that this will make any difference.



Thanks Dave! I will forward my sellers info to Disney as well.


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## DaveStroem

mareed said:


> I'm honestly interested in learning what it is that distinguishes a scrapper...  Educate me!



This is another bogus pin that I found in this lot. 

The pin on the left, is from pinpics.com and the one on the right is the one that she sent to me. 









Notice that the fake pin does not have the Disney logo in the bubble on the left of the pin. This is a 2009 pin, so they are getting the fakes out fast. This was a pretty easy spot if you can compare them side by side. The trouble is, would you know that the one on the right was not correct if you looked at it by itself.


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## mareed

DaveStroem said:


> This is another bogus pin that I found in this lot.
> 
> The pin on the left, is from pinpics.com and the one on the right is the one that she sent to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Notice that the fake pin does not have the Disney logo in the bubble on the left of the pin. This is a 2009 pin, so they are getting the fakes out fast.



That is interesting!  Thanks for sharing it.  The one you received does look odd that it has the bubble without anything in it.  I don't recall seeing anything obvious like this in any that I've seen.


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## karrit2000

Dave,

I have to thank you too for making the effort to report your experience to Disney & Paypal about the purchase you made.  I'm sorry you ended up with the bogus pins.  Until Disney takes a stand and polices their own events to try to shield the rest of us from the bad pins nothing much will change.  They created this monster and from what those of us who have been collecting for years can see nothing is going to change anytime soon.  But each time one of the baddies gets reported at least we are one step closer to making it better for everyone.  Please don't let this experience turn you off the whole pin trading experience.  As others have said, spend what you can afford to but buyer beware.  I'm still trading but I usually only do so with cast members and at official pin trading events.  I'm not into the whole DTD Pin Trader scene either at WDW or DL.  The sharks who camp there spoil it for the legitimate honest traders and I don't have the patience to attempt to deal with each one to determine who is fair & who isn't.  Happy Pin Trading.


----------



## DaveStroem

Good news. The seller just refunded my money and requested that I not file an Ebay dispute. At this point, I don't even think I can as I now have no loss other then time and anguish.


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## vorpalswrd

Devil's Advocate here: If (at least some) CM's can so easily tell scrappers why doesn't Disney have them NOT put them on their lanyard? Other than obvious fakes (like the one on his page) most experts agree that unless you have both pins and a discerning eye you can't tell.


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## letthewookiewin

DaveStroem said:


> Good news. The seller just refunded my money and requested that I not file an Ebay dispute. At this point, I don't even think I can as I now have no loss other then time and anguish.



I would still at least send Ebay an email.  If they are state in the listing that the pins are authentic and they are not, then something needs to be done.  They just gave you your money back so that you would keep your mouth shut and they can continue to fool less knowledgable people.


----------



## DaveStroem

Since I have had such a bad experience with this seller, I have messaged several other pin sellers. 

I sent this mention to bibbidi_bobbidi_boo_colectibles

"Where did you get the pins from. Are these scrappers or pins purchased from Disney. I am looking for trading stock, but will not tolerate counterfeit contraband. I am sorry if this sounds negative, I just got burned by another dealer selling fakes. "​I got a response from them first of:

_ "First of all what is a scrapper?"​_

I then responded with:
_A scrapper is the pins that are sold to dealers from china that are not actually purchased from Disney. Many of these pins are overruns or 2nds. Dealers that sell these pins are committing criminal acts.

Where your pins purchased from Disney?_​
I then noticed that they use the term "scrapper" in some of their other listings. So this seams to be a baiting type question.

_You are asking me what is a scrapper. In a different listing, you mention that it does not include and scrappers. So if you put that in some of your auctions, why would you ask me this. I am a serious bidder looking to get about 50 pins. I want real pins, not counterfeits or scrappers/2nds._​
This morning I got a response from bibbidi_bobbidi_boo_colectibles:

_please don not waste my time._​
So I guess you can use your own judgment as to whether or not this person is selling bogus pins or not.


----------



## DaveStroem

I also got this more respectful response from gordo1111.

_Thanks for the question and the interest in our auction.
Our pins come from a couple sources. We buy large collections of pins and/or we purchase pins from garage sales and similar places. We then trade some of these pins at Disneyworld for more desirable or popular pins. That being said, nobody selling pins on EBAY or anywhere else can guarrantee where their pins were originally purchased. Its impossible to know. 

All Disney pins are made in China by one of a number of companies that Disney contracts with.

The only way you can be sure that a pin was originally purchased at Disneyworld is to buy the pin directly from Disney yourself. But I suspect the reason you are looking on EBAY is because the Disney cost is upwards of $7 per pin. 

Any pin on EBAY may also have slight wear from being traded.
If your intent is to seriously collect Disney pins then I suggest you only buy your pins directly from Disney for reasons above. 
I hope I have answered your question. Thanks again for asking._​
I just may order from this guy


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## DaveStroem

I feel like I am turning into the Pin Police. 

Detective Dave at your service


----------



## jackskellingtonsgirl

THANK YOU for taking this seriously!  
We buy our traders from Disney Shopping and the Disney Store because we have been burned on eBay.
It INFURIATES me that people are fine with trading counterfeits/scrappers or whatever else because authentic pins are expensive.
If you can't afford authentic pins then DON'T TRADE.  Pretty simple.

For all of you buying cheap counterfeit crap and trading it, I hope every pin you take back home is fake, too.


----------



## mareed

DaveStroem said:


> We buy large collections of pins and/or we purchase pins from garage sales and similar places. We then trade some of these pins at Disneyworld for more desirable or popular pins.



I appreciate all of the info you've shared here!  I want to point out that in reading between the lines from this seller, I see "We buy large collections of pins that are probably scrappers and then trade those ourselves at WDW and then sell the pins we traded for."  So, I see this as one step removed from trading scrappers.  What do you think?  

For those who are adamantly against having any scrappers in circulation with CM's, where do you draw the line?  Would you buy from a seller who purchased scrappers and then "laundered" them at WDW by trading with CM's for "authentic" pins?  "Money-laundering"...  "Pin-laundering"...  LOL!


----------



## thelionqueen

DaveStroem said:


> I feel like I am turning into the Pin Police.
> 
> Detective Dave at your service


Dave, THANK YOU SO MUCH for taking the time to do all this!  I feel SO WONDERFUL that people out there take this as seriously as I do, and I now feel empowered to keep doing what I've been doing and make it right!

Now you are getting the feel for how big this problem is and how it TRULY takes away the magic of pin trading.  I for one feel more informed when I pin trade and don't let it steal the magic for me.  I just remember "back in the day" when you didn't have to look and wonder.  When you saw a pin you liked, you traded it and walked away with a big smile on your face; those days are the ones I'm working toward returning.

Mareed, I hope that after reading some of these posts and the passion and the message that you realize that trading counterfeit pins, no matter the person or situation, really damages the whole pin trading community.  You said you wanted to be educated, and I genuinely hope you do.  By reading the posts I hope you can see that this is and can turn into an even bigger problem for all of us.  If we all do our part, which is buying authentic pins and let "our conscience be our guide" (thanks Jiminy) we can pressure the powers that be and the counterfeiters into stopping this damaging behavior.

Your questions of "pin laundering" @ WDW is even more troubling.  So by the seller's own admission, he is taking counterfeit pins, trading them for authentic pins @ Disney and then selling the authentic pins on ebay.  #1, you know that he's pulling your leg right?  Why would he need to "launder" the pins when he has scrapper's he's selling.  #2, if what he said is actually correct, then he is taking quality pins (that someone traded or Disney provided) and replacing them with scrappers for everyone else who trades @ Disney.  Both of those scenarios are appalling.  Someone (be it Disney or another trader) traded a quality Disney pin that a seller is taking, replacing with a counterfeit, then on top of that making money on ebay.  I don't know how else to qualify a response like that except to say this person couldn't care less about pin trading and will do whatever they can to make money at everyone else's expense.  Bottom line, Disney pin trading was created for trading Disney pins.  Not for "upgrading" your cheap pin and infiltrating them into circulation for all Disney guests.  I've said it before as have others, pin trading is NOT cheap.  It takes money.  And if you're looking for ways around spending the money Disney charges for their pins (by buying counterfeits) it is ruining it for everyone.

I cannot influence your decision or your judgment of buying pins from sources other than Disney, but I hope you can realize that you are likely adding to the problem by buying and trading pins off ebay, rather than helping add to the solution.

Dave, thanks again for doing what you've done, you have once again ignited the fire in my belly that most people have good intentions and working together we can make a difference!!!


----------



## DaveStroem

Lionqueen, I don't know that any of that is true. This seller also sells individual pins. So there is the possibility that he buys collections (you are assuming fakes, but that is yet to be determined), then trades part of those for legitimate, higher value pins that he then sells individually. If doing this, his statement would be true. 

I have traded several responses back and forth with this seller. I get the feeling that he might be trying to do thing properly. I may just still be a bit naive though.


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## LittleFlounder

mareed said:


> I appreciate all of the info you've shared here!  I want to point out that in reading between the lines from this seller, I see "We buy large collections of pins that are probably scrappers and then trade those ourselves at WDW and then sell the pins we traded for."
> 
> ------
> 
> For those who are adamantly against having any scrappers in circulation with CM's, where do you draw the line?  Would you buy from a seller who purchased scrappers and then "laundered" them at WDW by trading with CM's for "authentic" pins?  "Money-laundering"...  "Pin-laundering"...  LOL!



I agree with mareed, I would still not believe that "gordo1111" could be trusted. Him being so knowledgable about scrapper pins and saying you could only buy from Disney to guarantee authentic pins is just a trick to make you think he's selling authentic pins. In my mind, a large lot of pins at such a low price (less than $3/pin) should be a *red flag* that they are scrappers!

If you do knowingly buy scrappers off ebay and "launder" then in the parks for "real pins", how do you know you're not going home with a laynyard of mostly scrappers? I had to be really careful on my last trip when trading pins. I saw SO many scrappers. I would realize I traded for a scrapper and then try to trade it back with another CM for a non-scrapper so i wasn't stuck with it(sounds bad, but I bought pins from Disney to trade with). Half way through my trip I left my pins back in the room and stopped trading... I was getting so frustrated and it wasn't fun anymore. When I got home and looked at my pins, I realized I still managed to come home with a few scrappers and I was so angry!


----------



## thelionqueen

DaveStroem said:


> Lionqueen, I don't know that any of that is true. This seller also sells individual pins. So there is the possibility that he buys collections (you are assuming fakes, but that is yet to be determined), then trades part of those for legitimate, higher value pins that he then sells individually. If doing this, his statement would be true.
> 
> I have traded several responses back and forth with this seller. I get the feeling that he might be trying to do thing properly. I may just still be a bit naive though.



Hi Dave, 
I was actually talking about the seller mareed is dealing with..lol!  I agree with you on the seller you're dealing with.  It does sound like he is doing it correctly.  And buying individual pins (especially if they're not cast lanyards, I can give you a list of the ones that are most rampant if you'd like) is a WAY better bet than buying lots.  I have bought individual pins from sellers on ebay that were authentic, but they were listed individually and I still paid around $4 for them.  
I want to stress that there are honest pin sellers on ebay.  In general they are selling individual pins that are not cast lanyards (don't know why so many fakes are cast lanyards, but the vast majority are).  I think the emails back and forth with this seller seem genuine, and if you buy individual pins from them I would think they would be authentic.  You have to go with your gut on this one; there are still more decent people out there than thiefs in my opinion.  Good luck and let us know how it goes.  I'm going to look at his auctions and check back. 

I just checked his listings, here is my take.  The title lists "mostly cast lanyards & LE's" which is a huge red flag.  Nearly all the scrappers I've seen are cast lanyards.  I looked at the picture of his pins, it is the same picture in all of his listings; another red flag.  There are many more "non-scrappers" pictured then there are scrappers.  That said, many of the ones that aren't scrappers (pictured) are not cast lanyards.  On top of all these triggers, who has this many pins for so cheap?  My opinion is that Gordo's listing for pin "lots" are fakes whether intentionally or not.  That said, NONE of his individual pin listings are scrappers.  Just my .02.

 Thanks again!


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## mareed

thelionqueen said:


> Hi Dave,
> I was actually talking about the seller mareed is dealing with..lol!



Just to clarify, I was talking about the seller that Dave referenced.  I've never purchased pins on Ebay myself.


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## jackskellingtonsgirl

I agree that the bulk of scrappers and counterfeits are cast lanyard/Hidden Mickey pins.  

Look at a seller's completed auctions.  Are they selling the same set of 10 pins over and over again?  Where do you think they got those pins?  Who randomly has 500 sets of the same 10 pins?  Hmm.  I know!  People who are buying counterfeits in large lots direct from China, bundling them into sets of 10, and selling them on eBay!  

Those grab bags are another way to end up with scrappers.

If you scroll down the auctions you will see the exact same pin lots listed by different sellers.  Hello?  Same seller, multiple eBay IDs.   

No, not every pin on eBay is a scrapper or a counterfeit.  But nobody sells pins for $1.50 each if they paid $7 each for them.  These sellers are in it to make a profit.  If they are selling pins that cheap and still making money then something is very wrong with that picture.


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## letthewookiewin

jackskellingtonsgirl said:


> I agree that the bulk of scrappers and counterfeits are cast lanyard/Hidden Mickey pins.
> 
> Look at a seller's completed auctions.  Are they selling the same set of 10 pins over and over again?  Where do you think they got those pins?  Who randomly has 500 sets of the same 10 pins?  Hmm.  I know!  People who are buying counterfeits in large lots direct from China, bundling them into sets of 10, and selling them on eBay!
> Those grab bags are another way to end up with scrappers.
> 
> If you scroll down the auctions you will see the exact same pin lots listed by different sellers.  Hello?  Same seller, multiple eBay IDs.
> 
> No, not every pin on eBay is a scrapper or a counterfeit.  But nobody sells pins for $1.50 each if they paid $7 each for them.  These sellers are in it to make a profit.  If they are selling pins that cheap and still making money then something is very wrong with that picture.



OK, a little devil's advocate time here.  I don't know if any of you know how posting on Ebay works, but since I've helped my mom with her store some I will explain my reasoning a little.

I agree with this to a point.  If they are selling the same 10 pins, they say specifically in the description that you will recieve all the pins that are in the picture, and they have a large number of that same auction up with the same pins up then yes that is a huge red flag.  However there are many sellers on Ebay that will take one picture and use it over and over when they are selling things in bulk.  Then they will add in the description that the ones in the picture are "just a sample" and that you will "recieve ones of equal quality".  It is very important when bidding on anything on Ebay to not only look at the picture but read the entire description.  They have an option when posting things to sell on Ebay where you can "sell a similar item". Ok lets say sellerx has a lot of 500 pins they want to sell in lots of 10.  In order to post all 500 pins they have to 1.take a pic of each lot making note of what pins went in that lot to not mix them up 2.download all 50 pics to their computer 3.make an auction with and downloading that specific pic 4.write a detailed description that matches the pic...or they can just take one pic, write one description and sell a similar item until they have all 500 up (which would be 50 auctions).  Trust me, from someone who has done it, it takes a lot less time to do it the 2nd way than the 1st way.

Also the price shouldn't be the only red flag here.  You shouldn't just see a large lot of pins for less than $2.00 and think just b/c of the starting bid price that they all have to be scrappers.  When you post something on Ebay the lower your starting bid price the lower the listing amount.  Some Ebay sellers will start their auctions off at a lower bid, so the list price is lower to save them money knowing that they might take a loss if the bid doesn't get up.  There have been some months that my mom paid Ebay almost $1,000 in listing fees.  She tried an experiment of starting some of her auctions out at a lower starting bid, so her listing fee was less, and they ended up selling for what she wanted for the item anyway.  It just made good business sense for her to save herself money by starting out the bid less.  Some of the sellers of those pin lots, may be doing the same thing.  They may be starting the price at a lower starting bid to save themselves some money on the listing fee.  They are hoping that Disney pin collectors will likely get in a "bidding war" over them and the price will get up to (or higher than) what they wanted for them in the first place.

I know for me I am too afraid of getting scrappers to buy them on Ebay, so I just buy them at WDW one at a time as I can afford them.  I have bought a Coach bag on Ebay, but the seller even had a picture of proof of sale and it came just like it would have from the Coach on line store.  I know it may sound strange that I am willing to buy a Coach bag on Ebay, but not a Disney pin.  I just don't want to take the chance on getting a scrapper and then trading it to someone who paid a lot for that pin.  If the Coach bag was fake it just hurt me, trading a scrapper hurts a lot more people.


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## thelionqueen

I too had a business on ebay many moons ago (love Longaberger baskets..anyway I digress).  I agree with Wookie and agree with all her points.  The difference with these listings and others with starting bids, is that a lot of these listings are selling the pins for $1.89 (sometimes less) with no bidding!  Also, many of the listings have set prices with no bidding.  Even the ones with low starting bids (doing this with the same premise as wookie's mom) are still likely fakes.  Why would they care starting bidding out at .01, when they are likely to get the $2 they are looking for.

In short, every seller is different, and you do need to read the description.  But the red flags to look for are multiple listings of lots of pins for under $2.  Of course there may be exceptions, but if you're buying 100 pins for around $100, you can bet they are fake.  I feel like I'm beating a dead horse, but hey, it's what I do


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## LittleFlounder

letthewookiewin said:


> Also the price shouldn't be the only red flag here.  You shouldn't just see a large lot of pins for less than $2.00 and think just b/c of the starting bid price that they all have to be scrappers.  When you post something on Ebay the lower your starting bid price the lower the listing amount.  Some Ebay sellers will start their auctions off at a lower bid, so the list price is lower to save them money knowing that they might take a loss if the bid doesn't get up.




I understand how ebay works... how if you start an auction off low, it will get bid up higher. but many/most of the 50-200 pin lots are "buy it now".. and those lots are likely scrapper pins. I bought a 50 pin lot (last fall) and it was ALL scrapper pins except one! I emailed the seller and he told me to send them back and I'd get a refund. He asked me to leave him positive feedback or none at all. Now I'm thinking I should report him to Disney! Here's his explanation:

"I am sorry you are unhappy with your lot of pins, please accept my apologies. I have noticed that the pin quality that I have been trading for have been getting poorer, and I have been finding more and more scrapper pins. I try and catch them before I sell, but I was on vacation and wasn't as vigalant as I normally am. I will be happy to refund your money upon return of the pins."

Sure sure...


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## DaveStroem

On thing that I have been looking at is if a larger lot says that it has no duplicates. One other thing to remember, there are a lot of pins that are not as desirable as others. These pins would have a significantly lower value than retail. 

This is such a twisted can of worms. I almost wished I never got started down this path. To late now because the girls are all excited about it.


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## ford91exploder

As a ebay seller of electronic equipment and tools NOT PINS,   Precisely what is unreasonable about requiring the return of the unsatisfactory merchandise before issuing a refund???.

Example I sent a customer a tool new in box.  Customer claimed it was never delivered sent proof of delivery to PayPal who promply told customer to get stuffed as customer was trying to get the item in a fraudulent manner.

Now since these items are counterfeit I would return them to seller and follow up with eBay's Safe Harbor department who handles sales of prohibited merchandise which includes counterfeit items.

It is unreasonable to expect the seller to return your money and allow you to keep the merchandise.   I have done this in the past with some items but the buyer's history with me also counts in this respect where they have bought many lots of components from me and if one part of my lot is bad I have issued a partial refund without requiring the part come back to me as keeping their business also has value.

my 0.02


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## Jupiter&Wolfe

Does anyone know of any ebay Pin sellers that ARE reliable? I'm NOT going to get into the 50+ lots, I've learned that from this thread. But I would still like to get a few specific ones for August's birthday...anyone know of a seller?  


Also curious to know if mousepinsonline.com is legit. Thanks!


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## jackskellingtonsgirl

I do see the point about not taking photos and posting each group with an individual description.  It has been a few years since I bought any pin lots on eBay, but it seems like the ones I was looking at all guaranteed the exact pins in the photo.  All of the completed auctions were the same thing.

I am not basing anything on the starting bid.  Like others mentioned, most of these things are "100 pin grab bag for $189, FREE SHIPPING!".  Or the pins are a set price per pin, and you enter how many pins you want for that price as a "Buy It Now".

With the economy in such a slump I will log on once in awhile to see if I can spot anything that looks like a collector selling off their personal collections, but I haven't seen any yet.  I guess people are selling their pins one by one or not selling them at all.  

I will say the individual "rack" pins are probably authentic.  The "sharks" will often ask a trader to purchase 2 or 3 new pins in exchange for a pin from their books.  I am sure they eBay those pins, and they are brand new.


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## LittleFlounder

ford91exploder said:


> As a ebay seller of electronic equipment and tools NOT PINS,   Precisely what is unreasonable about requiring the return of the unsatisfactory merchandise before issuing a refund???.



I don't believe anyone in this thread has mentioned getting a refund before returning unsatifsactory pins. (or maybe I missed it)


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## thelionqueen

DaveStroem said:


> On thing that I have been looking at is if a larger lot says that it has no duplicates. One other thing to remember, there are a lot of pins that are not as desirable as others. These pins would have a significantly lower value than retail.
> 
> This is such a twisted can of worms. I almost wished I never got started down this path. To late now because the girls are all excited about it.



Dave, 
Don't let this ugliness erase the PURE joy of pin trading for you and your girls!  Seriously, you are now well equipped to pin trade for quality pins.  If you're looking to buy some before your trip, look online @ disneyshopping.com, I've found some great deals there.  Also the Disney store (if you have one close) and individual pins on ebay from reputable sellers for authentic pins.  There are collectors that decide to sell their pins and you can save some money.

If none of those really "float your boat" just buy them at the parks.  If you have the Disney Visa or are a DVC member you get 10% off @ the DTD World of Disney store.  They have box sets of 7 pins for $35.  Then if you get the 10% thats 31.50 which equals $4.50 per pin.  Even without the discount, you can get these box sets of pins (really cute too) for $5.00 each.

Seriously, don't let the overload of information take away the simple joy of trading for you or your girls, I certainly won't let it diminish the magic for me.  I'm just more informed.  Hope that helps and enjoy your trip!!!


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## thelionqueen

So I took it upon myself to look for a few reputable sellers, here's what I found.
*sleepys_emporium*-link to an auction

http://cgi.ebay.com/MICKEY-MOUSE-COLORFUL-BOX-CHARACTER-Disney-Lanyard-Pin_W0QQitemZ370161822737QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item370161822737&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A2%7C294%3A50

Click on the link, then on "view sellers other items" to look at more.
Mostly individual pins and free shipping!

I looked for awhile and this seller is definitely the best.  I saw absolutely NO scrappers, all authentic pins.  Same day free shipping and reasonable prices for nice pins.  Hope that helps


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## Jupiter&Wolfe

Thank you!!!


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## DaveStroem

Thanks for this LionQueen


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## thelionqueen

My pleasure!


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## Luv2Roam

It has been YEARS since I have bought pins off Ebay. But generally I would either search for specific themes or characters. And if I placed a bid, most likely the seller would combine shipping for multiple pin purchases. That usually made the pins a lot better in price.
I often found my better deals for sellers who misspelled in their title.  I learned to purposely misspell character names or themes and get off the beaten path of other bidders and get some pretty good buys that way. For example Toy Story maybe be Toy Store or Toy Storie.
Generally I bought individual pins. If I bought a "lot" then I made sure I was actually seeing a photo of the pins I was buying. And there was usually never more than maybe 5 in a lot.
Those large lots everyone mentioned here is what sends up some drastic red flags for me.


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## Danauk

I bought pins from Sleepys_emporium, they arrived today and they are not scrappers. I was very pleased with the service and I would definately buy from them again. I bought 3 individual pins so could see what I was getting before I bidded.


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## thelionqueen

Danauk said:


> I bought pins from Sleepys_emporium, they arrived today and they are not scrappers. I was very pleased with the service and I would definately buy from them again. I bought 3 individual pins so could see what I was getting before I bidded.


Thanks for the feedback, looks live we've found our ebay seller!


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## DaveStroem

I looked them up too. They did look legit. 

BTW back to the original batch. As I have time, I have been checking on the pins that she sent me. So far of the ones that she sent, over 20% of what she sent me are scrappers. This is reinforcing my position that she was intentionally selling scrappers and that it was not just a few that slipped through.
The latest was from the 2009 marathon. This pin could only be purchased if you participated in the marathon. LE 1500. The registration fee for the marathon was $110-125 depending on when they registered. This pin also has a misspelling on the front. The word "challenge" is actually "challence". 

This is the Pin that I have. (this is not my auction) HERE and this is a similar pin from the Disneypins.com site HERE
*The following is just my opinion:*
To me it looks like this was a screw up so they just had them remade with out the additional text. I would imagine that they had to rush these through so they just reused the same artwork.


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## thelionqueen

I looked at both online pictures of the pins and here's my take.

#1) Legitimate Disney pins with "errors" are HIGHLY sought after by collectors as Disney usually catches the problems early on.  The fact that there are several already in circulation for a nominal price is a red flag.

#2) The quality on the "error" pin does not match that of the Disney pin (I'm aware that online photos and quality of picture could affect this).  

In my opinion, the marathon pin is a fake.  However, that being said, these pins (errors) are the hardest to decipher if authentic or not.  I have a set of 2 surfboards that are surprise pins, but on the back they say "surrprise pin" (two r's).  I've consulted with many experts and none can say for sure.

Just my .02


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## harpiesgirl

Hi All,

I kind of feel I should know better and totally stay away from this thread. This is one of those DIScussions that can turn really bad, really quickly.

Having said that, (and I hope it saves me from being tarred and feathered ). I will say that my name is Lisa and I bought pins from ebay ). I bought a lot of 40  , got great service, and don't believe I have scrappers. I have looked at all of them VERY closely and have compared them to my "officially" purchased (in the parks at full price)  (or CM traded) pins, and I cannot tell a difference. So I am going to give my ebay seller a 5 and fab service rating and happily trade my pins, even though they didn't cost $6.00  or $10.00 each!  I will admit that I am no expert, this is only my second trip to the MAGICAL PLACE. However, I have tried to do my homework and refuse to let my vacation be ruined by so much unDis sentiment. If my DD trades a great pin for a crappy one, as long as she's happy, I am, too.  At the same time, if I trade 1 "less than desirable one", I am not going to drag myself through the mud about it. Aren't there more important things to worry about these days?

Lisa


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## Luv2Roam

The photo is not showing above. Which marathon pin was it? I probably have one (that was purchased from Disney at the expo).
One of the 2009 Donald half marathon pins I consider an error. I have two, and on each Donald's pupil is not colored in. On Pinpics, Pin 67437: WDW - 2009 Walt Disney World 1/2 Marathon (Donald Duck) is one of my pins.
Although Pin 67438: WDW - Goofy's Marathon Race-and-a-Half Challenge 2009 is one I do not have from this year, if that is the pin in question.


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## TRICKY_TINK

hey op I would still file with ebay and disney or that seller just bribed you!


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## SunnieRN

I collected and traded pins in the past, but did not really do anything after I bought some pins (a lot of 10) from an ebay seller in 2006 and figured out that one was a fake.
I stopped trading after that as I know the pins I bought up to that point (mostly purchased from disney sources only) were authentic pins.  I have several boxed pin sets and limited edition pins.
I have over 1000 pins in my collection.  I no longer want to trade.  I have problems with my eyesite now and it would be much too hard for me to check the pins properly.
I also bought Sedesma pins while I was trading because I would give them away to kids who fell in love with my pins but either didn't trade pins or didn't have a pin I wanted to add to my collection.  I also gave away a lot of pins I just didn't want, that I had gotten in 5 pin lots.  It made a lot of kids happy!!
It's sad to see how things have changed.  I love my pins and plan on keeping them and adding to my collection, but only by buying from disney sources.
Good going to those of you who are fighting the scrapper sellers.  It all comes down to "If it seems too good to be true......."


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## thelionqueen

harpiesgirl said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I kind of feel I should know better and totally stay away from this thread. This is one of those DIScussions that can turn really bad, really quickly.
> 
> Having said that, (and I hope it saves me from being tarred and feathered ). I will say that my name is Lisa and I bought pins from ebay ). I bought a lot of 40  , got great service, and don't believe I have scrappers. I have looked at all of them VERY closely and have compared them to my "officially" purchased (in the parks at full price)  (or CM traded) pins, and I cannot tell a difference. So I am going to give my ebay seller a 5 and fab service rating and happily trade my pins, even though they didn't cost $6.00  or $10.00 each!  I will admit that I am no expert, this is only my second trip to the MAGICAL PLACE. However, I have tried to do my homework and refuse to let my vacation be ruined by so much unDis sentiment. If my DD trades a great pin for a crappy one, as long as she's happy, I am, too.  At the same time, if I trade 1 "less than desirable one", I am not going to drag myself through the mud about it. Aren't there more important things to worry about these days?
> 
> Lisa




No tar and feathering, just a thought.  As has already been addressed to death in this thread, pin trading counterfeit pins, regardless if you don't know they're fake (cough) or if it's just a child trading, or if you get a scrapper and are happy, trading fake pins HURTS EVERYONE in the long run.

I understand that you have only been twice and can ligitimately claim "I don't know any better, they look ok to me".  The bottom line is, if you're buying large lots of pins cheap on ebay, you are contributing to the problem for the entire pin trading community; how you justify that to yourself or anyone else is up to you.  Knowing and doing the right thing is not easy, it takes effort.  Turning a blind eye is much easier and will hurt everyone in the long run.  Just my .02 (must be at least a dollar of my two cent's worth)


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## surfergirl602

I just bought a lot on ebay and got it in the mail today.  90% of them are scrappers.  And most of them are the ones people have talked about in this thread.  going to file with ebay and paypal.  Grrrrr...  I got the phinneas and ferb one, of course the marathon ones with the misspelling, which gave them all away, the bad apple stitch one.  These people must all be in cahoots with each other.


ETA:  how expactly do I go about reporting and filing to ebay and paypal??  I can't find a link on ebay anywhere about the fake items.


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## thelionqueen

surfergirl602 said:


> I just bought a lot on ebay and got it in the mail today.  90% of them are scrappers.  And most of them are the ones people have talked about in this thread.  going to file with ebay and paypal.  Grrrrr...  I got the phinneas and ferb one, of course the marathon ones with the misspelling, which gave them all away, the bad apple stitch one.  These people must all be in cahoots with each other.
> 
> 
> ETA:  how expactly do I go about reporting and filing to ebay and paypal??  I can't find a link on ebay anywhere about the fake items.



I'm sorry this happened to you, but am happy you will be filing with ebay and Paypal.  The more people we can get involved and protesting, the better chance we have to eliminate this problem.  If you could also send your issues directly to disney at tips@disneyanticpiracy.com, that is our best bet.  I KNOW without a doubt Disney is working on this problem, but the more people that complain directly to them, is (IMHO) the best chance.  

Again, sorry this happened to you, it's happened to a couple of us on this thread, and it just plain sucks.


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## Eeyore'sthebest

surfergirl602 said:


> I just bought a lot on ebay and got it in the mail today.  90% of them are scrappers.  And most of them are the ones people have talked about in this thread.  going to file with ebay and paypal.  Grrrrr...  I got the phinneas and ferb one, of course the marathon ones with the misspelling, which gave them all away, the bad apple stitch one.  These people must all be in cahoots with each other.
> 
> 
> ETA:  how expactly do I go about reporting and filing to ebay and paypal??  I can't find a link on ebay anywhere about the fake items.


Will you please PM the name of the seller.  I'd like to buy some pins but definitely want to avoid sellers that are known to have issues.  Thanks.


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## MadHatter Pennies

surfergirl602 said:


> I just bought a lot on ebay and got it in the mail today.  90% of them are scrappers.  And most of them are the ones people have talked about in this thread.  going to file with ebay and paypal.  Grrrrr...  I got the phinneas and ferb one, of course the marathon ones with the misspelling, which gave them all away, the bad apple stitch one.  These people must all be in cahoots with each other.
> 
> 
> ETA:  how expactly do I go about reporting and filing to ebay and paypal??  I can't find a link on ebay anywhere about the fake items.



 
 E_BAY
1 sign in to E-Bay
2 In the top right corner click the help tab
3 Search Replica and Counterfeit Items
4 Click the link for Replica , Counterfeit Items  and Unauthorized Copies
5 At the bottom of the article there is a link to report
6 Fill out the E-Mail
7 Don't forget to check the box to send it to your own E-mail(keep copies of all correspondence during these processes)
8 Click SEND

PAY_PAL

1 sign in to Pay-Pal
2 On the My Account chose the Resolution Center link
3 Click Dispute Transaction
4 Select Item dispute: I did not receive an item I purchased or the item I received is significantly not as described. and press CONTINUE
5 Enter transaction ID and press CONTINUE
6 This is far as I can describe without actually doing it, so from here on you are on your own!

Pay-Pals Deffenition
What is Significantly Not as Described (SNAD)?

An item is Significantly Not as Described if it is materially different than what the seller described in the item listing. Here are some examples:

    *You received a completely different item. Example: You purchased a book and received a DVD or an empty box.
    *The condition of the item was misrepresented. Example: The listing said "new" and the item was used.

    *_The item was advertised as authentic but is not authentic_.

    *The item is missing major parts or features which were not disclosed in the listing.
    *You purchased three items from a seller but only received two.
    *The item was damaged during shipment.

Oooh... Ooooh... did I embed the link right? This is my First post!


----------



## MadHatter Pennies

Please check these out and let me know what you think.

E-Bay IDs
olivejuiceyou21

domdisneypin

I am buying from both of these sellers. I only buy the pins I want to keep, I don't trade. After I get the pins I'll let you know how it went.


----------



## surfergirl602

the seller that I bought from was shelly7pak.  Avoid at all costs.


----------



## LittleFlounder

surfergirl602 said:


> the seller that I bought from was shelly7pak.  Avoid at all costs.



I just looked up that seller and got the message "The seller UserID you entered was not found."


----------



## surfergirl602

LittleFlounder said:


> I just looked up that seller and got the message "The seller UserID you entered was not found."



sorry, its shells7pak.


----------



## Eeyore'sthebest

surfergirl602 said:


> sorry, its shells7pak.



Thank you.


----------



## thelionqueen

AGREED!!  SHELLS7PAK IS DEFINITELY FAKE!

As far as the other ebay sellers in questions-
Olivejuiceyou21 & domdisneypin
I looked at the majority of their listings (both of them, but not every single one) and every single one I saw was authentic!  I would say buy from them, as well as the other seller listed (dopey something-in previous post).

Thanks to everyone for being proactive in this!  And PLEASE report shells7pak to tips@disneyantipiracy.com


----------



## surfergirl602

thelionqueen said:


> AGREED!!  SHELLS7PAK IS DEFINITELY FAKE!
> 
> As far as the other ebay sellers in questions-
> Olivejuiceyou21 & domdisneypin
> I looked at the majority of their listings (both of them, but not every single one) and every single one I saw was authentic!  I would say buy from them, as well as the other seller listed (dopey something-in previous post).
> 
> Thanks to everyone for being proactive in this!  And PLEASE report shells7pak to tips@disneyantipiracy.com



I did report her, but that email came back as undeliverable.  I just wish I had looked into her more thoroughly before my hubby went and bought lots of pins from her!


----------



## missj1975

First off let me say that as a trader, I don't like scrappers either.  On the otherhand, I don't like how this thread is turning into a witchhunt by "outing scrapper sellers" by listing their ebay user i.d.s  I know this is a public forum so people can say what they want but keep in mind that your are potentially ruining someones ebay reputation.  Report the seller to ebay & Disney and let them handle the issue.  At least through ebay, the seller will have a chance to defend themself.

Let me say again, I don't like scrapper sellers either.  I also don't like buyers who want really cheap pins but yet get mad when the pin turns out to be fake.  You wanted a cheap pin, you got a cheap pin.  That is why counterfeits (of any product) exist.  People want the product, they just don't want to pay the price.

Do you want to help stop the scrapper problem?  Then quit buying cheap pins off of ebay or any other non-disney website that is selling pins for less then $2.00.  Newsflash, they are scrapper pins.

Do you want cheap pins?  Pay attention to Disneyshopping.com and the Disney Store outlets.  I have bought dozens of traders for around $3.00 each from those two places.  Disneyshopping.com does have great sales occasionally which you can also use discount codes with.  In the beginning of February, I visited a Disney outlet store near WDW.  They had lots of nice pins mint on original card for $3.00 each.  Now I will make it a point to visit that outlet store every time I go to WDW.  Sorry I can't remember the name of the outlet but I do remember it was 10 minutes from Disney and very easy to find.


----------



## DaveStroem

As the one that started this thread, I agree that it shouldn't turn into a witch hunt. 

The main thing is education. When I made my purchase, I did not know that there was such a thing as a scrapper or counterfeit pin. I honestly thought that Disney sold off bulk lots of the pins that they collected in trade from the CMs lanyards. 

It was only after I received that pins and started to check them out individually that I quickly became aware. There is no reason to throw the collectors that want to save a buck under the bus for not knowing. 

Hopefully a thread like this has helped educate people to the situation.


----------



## pixierella

I bought two pins from Olivejuiceyou21 and I feel confident her pins are for real. These are some sellers that I bought pins from and have checked them all and they are real.

magical_day_shoppe  bought a lot of 30 and all were real authentic pins except for maybe one as per pin pics. Very nice to deal with.

iloveanimation0   I bought two LE pins that we negotied on. brand new on the cards


 pindetective  Very nice pins at good prices.


----------



## thelionqueen

missj1975 said:


> First off let me say that as a trader, I don't like scrappers either.  On the otherhand, I don't like how this thread is turning into a witchhunt by "outing scrapper sellers" by listing their ebay user i.d.s  I know this is a public forum so people can say what they want but keep in mind that your are potentially ruining someones ebay reputation.  Report the seller to ebay & Disney and let them handle the issue.  At least through ebay, the seller will have a chance to defend themself.
> 
> Let me say again, I don't like scrapper sellers either.  I also don't like buyers who want really cheap pins but yet get mad when the pin turns out to be fake.  You wanted a cheap pin, you got a cheap pin.  That is why counterfeits (of any product) exist.  People want the product, they just don't want to pay the price.
> 
> Do you want to help stop the scrapper problem?  Then quit buying cheap pins off of ebay or any other non-disney website that is selling pins for less then $2.00.  Newsflash, they are scrapper pins.
> 
> Do you want cheap pins?  Pay attention to Disneyshopping.com and the Disney Store outlets.  I have bought dozens of traders for around $3.00 each from those two places.  Disneyshopping.com does have great sales occasionally which you can also use discount codes with.  In the beginning of February, I visited a Disney outlet store near WDW.  They had lots of nice pins mint on original card for $3.00 each.  Now I will make it a point to visit that outlet store every time I go to WDW.  Sorry I can't remember the name of the outlet but I do remember it was 10 minutes from Disney and very easy to find.



I totally disagree with your thought of not listing seller's ID's.  They buy huge lots of pins from sources OTHER than Disney and they know they are fake- period.  The legal process can take years, and word of mouth works much quicker.  I for one hope they DO go out of business, that is the point of all this.  I will continue to list the GOOD and the BAD sellers here and hope it educates someone, anyone.

The majority of this thread are people who were not aware they were buying counterfeits and became educated, which I applaud.  It has been stated many times that people should buy pins from Disney or reputable sellers, nothing wrong with that. 

I don't consider this a "witch hunt" it's simply working together to try to STOP counterfeit pin sellers by reporting it to the proper authorities AND informing others about them and steering them away.


----------



## MadHatter Pennies

thelionqueen said:


> I totally disagree with your thought of not listing seller's ID's.  They buy huge lots of pins from sources OTHER than Disney and they know they are fake- period.  The legal process can take years, and word of mouth works much quicker.  I for one hope they DO go out of business , that is the point of all this.  I will continue to list the GOOD and the BAD sellers here and hope it educates someone, anyone.
> 
> I don't consider this a "witch hunt" it's simply working together to try to STOP counterfeit pin sellers by reporting it to the proper authorities AND informing others about them and steering them away.



Have you noticed that more people have posted sellers names they believe are _GOOD_ sellers? 
Isn't that what the DISboards are for is communicating and helping others? 

IMO we _should_ ruin the reputation of people who have high ratings for selling fakes. The reputation they have is undeserved! 
I buy a lot of things from E-Bay and do a lot of checking into sellers feedback. The first star rating question is 
How accurate was the item description?
If they say they are not selling scrappers, sedsema, fakes, whatever, then you get your order and find that you have been  cheated, you should leave a low rating _AND_ report them. E-Bay does seem to be concerned, even if it is just to cover their legal. I have seen listings quickly removed and sellers disappear when they have been reported. 

This has become not a witch hunt but a hunt for an honest man.


----------



## JRoyster86

I know this thread is about ebay, but what about buying pin lots from a source such as pinfinder.com? I just bought a pin lot from them, should I be expecting some scrappers to be in the mix or are they mainly on the level?


----------



## pixierella

JRoyster86 said:


> I know this thread is about ebay, but what about buying pin lots from a source such as pinfinder.com? I just bought a pin lot from them, should I be expecting some scrappers to be in the mix or are they mainly on the level?



 I looked for complaints through the BBB and found nothing. I read their gaurantee with problems and it seemed good. When you get the lot check them over and try to find them on pinpics. I find pinpics to be acurate and if it's a scapper they will tell you what to look for. I haven't bought from them but did from another online company and all the pins look as if they are the real thing.


----------



## Danauk

I just looked at pinfinder, I find it a little off that they are able to offer lots of 1000 pins which state you will get a max of 25 of any pin. I personally would not but lots from there.


----------



## thelionqueen

Danauk said:


> I just looked at pinfinder, I find it a little off that they are able to offer lots of 1000 pins which state you will get a max of 25 of any pin. I personally would not but lots from there.



I agree.  I think any "lot" that is not specific to exactly what you are going to get is a red flag.  The fact that they list no duplicates after a certain number of pins means they are mass duplicating.  Just my .02.

And thanks to everyone who is posting on this thread and helping towards a solution.  I know this is cheesy but appropriate "TEAM" Together Everyone Achieves More...sorry, the HR dork in me


----------



## bgohre

It's good that some of you are so skilled at spotting fakes that you don't even have to examine the pin. You can simply look at a half blurry 2x2 inch picture and tell they are fake. You don't have to touch, look or examine them. This small picture is clearly enough for you to ruin someones ebay reputation. You are clearly more skilled than I. 

I once went with my cousin to the employee store at DisneyWorld and bought 100's of pins for $1.50 each. Now, if I wanted to make a profit I could turn around and sell them on ebay for, say, $2.00 a pin. Hmmm, I guess that automatically makes them scrappers (according to some of you). 

If someone is selling fake pins and you know 100 % for sure they are fakes than fine. But if you haven't ordered their pins and personally examined them, then you have not right to ruin their rep with ebay.


----------



## LittleFlounder

bgohre said:


> It's good that some of you are so skilled at spotting fakes that you don't even have to examine the pin. You can simply look at a half blurry 2x2 inch picture and tell they are fake. You don't have to touch, look or examine them. This small picture is clearly enough for you to ruin someones ebay reputation. You are clearly more skilled than I.
> 
> I once went with my cousin to the employee store at DisneyWorld and bought 100's of pins for $1.50 each. Now, if I wanted to make a profit I could turn around and sell them on ebay for, say, $2.00 a pin. Hmmm, I guess that automatically makes them scrappers (according to some of you).
> 
> If someone is selling fake pins and you know 100 % for sure they are fakes than fine. But if you haven't ordered their pins and personally examined them, then you have not right to ruin their rep with ebay.



Its not that some Disers can tell if they are authentic just from looking at a little picture, its that we know which pins are more likely to be scrappers. So when sellers have many of these pins, its a red light that we should be avoiding that seller.

I guess because so many of us have been burned, that we're taking the "better to be safe than sorry" stance. Since so many of the "$2.00 or less" are scrappers, its easier to assume that they might be, rather than take the risk and buy them to see for sure.


----------



## thelionqueen

bgohre said:


> It's good that some of you are so skilled at spotting fakes that you don't even have to examine the pin. You can simply look at a half blurry 2x2 inch picture and tell they are fake. You don't have to touch, look or examine them. This small picture is clearly enough for you to ruin someones ebay reputation. You are clearly more skilled than I.
> 
> I once went with my cousin to the employee store at DisneyWorld and bought 100's of pins for $1.50 each. Now, if I wanted to make a profit I could turn around and sell them on ebay for, say, $2.00 a pin. Hmmm, I guess that automatically makes them scrappers (according to some of you).
> 
> If someone is selling fake pins and you know 100 % for sure they are fakes than fine. But if you haven't ordered their pins and personally examined them, then you have not right to ruin their rep with ebay.



Well I find some issues with your post.  I have been to the Cast Member stores MANY times (all of them) and you are not allowed to buy more than 10 quantity of any pin (@ DU).  I have rarely seen a pin for less than $2 anywhere but DU (except on starter lanyards).  They are also Cast Member EXLCUSIVE pins, NOT cast lanyard pins which you will almost NEVER see for sale in lots.  There is a VERY distinct difference in CM exclusive vs. cast lanyard pins.  The cast lanyard pins have the hidden Mickey (these are the vast amount of fakes going around now) and the CM exclusive pins are almost always limited to under 1000 and states on the back "Cast Member Exclusive, LE of __" and the year.   Let us know if you find a seller that has a large lot of these pins.  First of all, it is against Disney policy to buy CM merchandise for the intention of selling at a profit, however, they are tradeable in the parks and HIGHLY sought after by nearly every pin trader.  So when I do trade mine, which I have done on occasion and is perfectly acceptable, I am infiltrating RARE and WANTED pins vs. cheap scrappers.

And, not to be rude, but I am better at spotting fakes than almost anyone I know, including cast members trading them.  I have educated MANY CM's on how to spot a fake and they were surprised how easy they are to spot once educated.  This is not a position I wanted, believe me!  I would much rather be able to pin trade and NOT worry about fakes, scrappers, etc.  And CERTAINLY not take a good portion of my personal time to try to right other's wrongs.  I could easily turn a blind eye and go on with my life, but that's not me. 

I will GLADLY, HAPPILY and CONTINUALLY list ebay sellers of fake pins ONLY when I am 100% positive that they are fake.  I have personally bought pins from many of the sellers listed (other posters have listed sellers that they've personally dealt with) and sent my information (and the fake pins) to Disney for investigation. 

And YES, I CAN tell by a 2X2 picture EXACTLY which pins are fake and which are not (if I know the pins, most I do).  And once you gain the experience of over 10 years of pin trading (2+ trips per year, trading every day of those 14 day trips) you too can gain the knowledge I share here.

The ONLY ebay sellers we are trying to ruin the reputation of (and they definitely deserve it) are those who knowingly sell scrappers (fake) Disney pins.  Disney is investigating this and working on it, but it could take years.  Word of mouth and the internet work MUCH quicker.  Whatever I can do to expedite these sellers going out of business I will DO!  I will remain diligent and spend my time to put them out of business; it ruins pin trading for EVERYONE and it is one of my favorite hobbies on my trips.

I am really not trying to single anyone out, everyone has a right to post exactly what they think.  And I would NEVER..let me repeat that..NEVER implicate someone or something I was not 100% positive about.  

I can tell you, without any doubt whatsoever at all, the sellers I've listed as selling fakes, I've had personal dealings with (and turned over to Disney legal) and/or examined their pins.  And the ones I list as "legit" I have looked at their pins, and with my own knowledge, determined the products they are selling are authentic.  I don't know of any one person who is "The" Disney Pin expert or hired by Disney to be the "Pin Police", but I know much more than the casual (and even many serious) traders.  

I gladly stand by everything I've posted on this thread and all others.


----------



## surfergirl602

thelionqueen said:


> Well I find some issues with your post.  I have been to the Cast Member stores MANY times (all of them) and you are not allowed to buy more than 10 quantity of any pin (@ DU).  I have rarely seen a pin for less than $2 anywhere but DU (except on starter lanyards).  They are also Cast Member EXLCUSIVE pins, NOT cast lanyard pins which you will almost NEVER see for sale in lots.  There is a VERY distinct difference in CM exclusive vs. cast lanyard pins.  The cast lanyard pins have the hidden Mickey (these are the vast amount of fakes going around now) and the CM exclusive pins are almost always limited to under 1000 and states on the back "Cast Member Exclusive, LE of __" and the year.   Let us know if you find a seller that has a large lot of these pins.  First of all, it is against Disney policy to buy CM merchandise for the intention of selling at a profit, however, they are tradeable in the parks and HIGHLY sought after by nearly every pin trader.  So when I do trade mine, which I have done on occasion and is perfectly acceptable, I am infiltrating RARE and WANTED pins vs. cheap scrappers.
> 
> And, not to be rude, but I am better at spotting fakes than almost anyone I know, including cast members trading them.  I have educated MANY CM's on how to spot a fake and they were surprised how easy they are to spot once educated.  This is not a position I wanted, believe me!  I would much rather be able to pin trade and NOT worry about fakes, scrappers, etc.  And CERTAINLY not take a good portion of my personal time to try to right other's wrongs.  I could easily turn a blind eye and go on with my life, but that's not me.
> 
> I will GLADLY, HAPPILY and CONTINUALLY list ebay sellers of fake pins ONLY when I am 100% positive that they are fake.  I have personally bought pins from many of the sellers listed (other posters have listed sellers that they've personally dealt with) and sent my information (and the fake pins) to Disney for investigation.
> 
> And YES, I CAN tell by a 2X2 picture EXACTLY which pins are fake and which are not (if I know the pins, most I do).  And once you gain the experience of over 10 years of pin trading (2+ trips per year, trading every day of those 14 day trips) you too can gain the knowledge I share here.
> 
> The ONLY ebay sellers we are trying to ruin the reputation of (and they definitely deserve it) are those who knowingly sell scrappers (fake) Disney pins.  Disney is investigating this and working on it, but it could take years.  Word of mouth and the internet work MUCH quicker.  Whatever I can do to expedite these sellers going out of business I will DO!  I will remain diligent and spend my time to put them out of business; it ruins pin trading for EVERYONE and it is one of my favorite hobbies on my trips.
> 
> I am really not trying to single anyone out, everyone has a right to post exactly what they think.  And I would NEVER..let me repeat that..NEVER implicate someone or something I was not 100% positive about.
> 
> I can tell you, without any doubt whatsoever at all, the sellers I've listed as selling fakes, I've had personal dealings with (and turned over to Disney legal) and/or examined their pins.  And the ones I list as "legit" I have looked at their pins, and with my own knowledge, determined the products they are selling are authentic.  I don't know of any one person who is "The" Disney Pin expert or hired by Disney to be the "Pin Police", but I know much more than the casual (and even many serious) traders.
> 
> I gladly stand by everything I've posted on this thread and all others.



Could you please train me on what to look for so I could easily spot them?  You seem to have a plethora of knowledge!


----------



## thelionqueen

surfergirl602 said:


> Could you please train me on what to look for so I could easily spot them?  You seem to have a plethora of knowledge!



Thank you for the vote of confidence  
The easiest way to tell a fake is to have an "authentic" pin next to one you think is fake.  If you have the 2 the differences are clear on that pin and on future ones.  I know many people don't have the luxury to have 2 of the same pin, or lucky enough to have one of each, but that is the easiest way.  

You would be able to tell immediately by weight, this is the first thing I check.  The authentic pins are much heavier and more "durable" than the fakes.  The color is also "off" (not as bright/vivid) and the edges are not the as shiny.  

On the contrary, the scrappers say the EXACT same thing on the back as the authentic pins do, which makes it really tough for the untrained eye to catch.  I can tell you some of the "current" scrappers being distributed if that would help.  They are all Cast lanyard pins (hidden Mickey's). The ones below are just a few to help you spot them in a "lot" they are certainly not a complete list.

1. Villains in crystal balls (specifically Maleficent, seen hundreds) they are purple, green, yellow and red (Maleficent, Ursula, Cruella & Hook)
2. Mickey footprints (haven't seen any fakes with the rest of the set (Minnie, Donald & Goofy)
3. Fastpasses (2nd version)
4. Tink teardrops (I think there are 12 in this series)
5. Disney silhouettes (mostly Pluto)
6. Princess rearview mirrors (mostly Cinderella)
7. Alice in Wonderland Pocketwatch (all characters)

That's all I can think of at the moment, will update as my memory refreshes


----------



## debraW76

I have a question relating to pin trading.  I just purchased 10 pins online as a grab bag and two of them are part of a set of 6.  Are these tradable or do you have to have the entire set?  Specifically,
http://www.pinpics.com/cgi-bin/pin.cgi?pin=61410&sid=8294.1236798254.v3


Thanks,


----------



## thelionqueen

debraW76 said:


> I have a question relating to pin trading.  I just purchased 10 pins online as a grab bag and two of them are part of a set of 6.  Are these tradable or do you have to have the entire set?  Specifically,
> http://www.pinpics.com/cgi-bin/pin.cgi?pin=61410&sid=8294.1236798254.v3
> 
> 
> Thanks,



You do not need to trade the entire set.  Actually, when people trade pins of a set like these, and someone else is looking to complete theirs, it's very exciting for those finding their "completers."  Trade away!! 

BTW, I live for everything Haunted Mansion and HM pins are rare and very desirable.  I would LOVE this set!  I hope the person who trades for them enjoys them!


----------



## MadHatter Pennies

thelionqueen said:


> If you could also send your issues directly to disney at tips_at_disneyanticpiracy.com, that is our best bet.  I KNOW without a doubt Disney is working on this problem, but the more people that complain directly to them, is (IMHO) the best chance.



This Address didn't work for me. I used the proper symbol but had to change it to be able to post this.


----------



## MadHatter Pennies

Is it real?
Disney Tinkerbell Flip Cell Phone Spotlight Pin LE NEW
	Item number: 170306409394
I Can't find it on 
h ttp://eventservices.disney.go.com/pintrading/index
Thanks for your help


----------



## thelionqueen

MadHatter Pennies said:


> This Address didn't work for me. I used the proper symbol but had to change it to be able to post this.



Sorry, I misspelled it.
Tips@disneyantipiracy.com


----------



## MadHatter Pennies

thelionqueen said:


> I am better at spotting fakes than almost anyone I know, including cast members trading them.
> I will GLADLY, HAPPILY and CONTINUALLY list ebay sellers of fake pins ONLY when I am 100% positive that they are fake.
> And YES, I CAN tell by a 2X2 picture EXACTLY which pins are fake and which are not (if I know the pins, most I do).  And once you gain the experience of over 10 years of pin trading (2+ trips per year, trading every day of those 14 day trips) you too can gain the knowledge I share here. I don't know of any one person who is "The" Disney Pin expert or hired by Disney to be the "Pin Police", but I know much more than the casual (and even many serious) traders.
> 
> I gladly stand by everything I've posted on this thread and all others.





MadHatter Pennies said:


> Is it real?
> Disney Tinkerbell Flip Cell Phone Spotlight Pin LE NEW
> Item number: 170306409394
> I Can't find it on
> h ttp://eventservices.disney.go.com/pintrading/index
> Thanks for your help



I forgot to say this is a current eBay auction. I would have sent a private message, but haven't posted enough yet!


----------



## MadHatter Pennies

debraW76 said:


> I have a question relating to pin trading.  I just purchased 10 pins online as a grab bag and two of them are part of a set of 6.  Are these tradable or do you have to have the entire set?
> Thanks,





thelionqueen said:


> You do not need to trade the entire set.  Actually, when people trade pins of a set like these, and someone else is looking to complete theirs, it's very exciting for those finding their "completers."  Trade away!!
> 
> BTW, I live for everything Haunted Mansion and HM pins are rare and very desirable.  I would LOVE this set!  I hope the person who trades for them enjoys them!



I read something somewhere about trading puzzle sets that you were supposed to trade the set as one pin?


----------



## thelionqueen

MadHatter Pennies said:


> I forgot to say this is a current eBay auction. I would have sent a private message, but haven't posted enough yet!



Yes the tinkerbell phone is real.  Usually the fakes cannot get moving parts, at least so far!

And you can trade puzzle pieces individually, makes it more fun for those with other pieces!


----------



## debraW76

thelionqueen said:


> You do not need to trade the entire set.  Actually, when people trade pins of a set like these, and someone else is looking to complete theirs, it's very exciting for those finding their "completers."  Trade away!!
> 
> BTW, I live for everything Haunted Mansion and HM pins are rare and very desirable.  I would LOVE this set!  I hope the person who trades for them enjoys them!



THANKS!


----------



## Pecobill

slduck said:


> We bought some off ebay. Now that I have done some research, I am pretty certain that they are scrappers.  I too just wanted some pins for my dd to trade with CMs.  There are certain lanyard colors that only trade with children, but I can't recall right now.
> 
> If you go to the collectors board waaaay down at the bottom, there is a thread about pins. I am sure that someone could answer your question there.



It's green


----------



## pixiewings71

I bought from Pinfinder, some of my pins were scrappers.  He is sending me replacements, if they are bad I will attempt to return the whole lot for a refund.  I bought a lot of 50 as they were on sale at the time.  I also purchased from Shells7pak in the past, before I knew what scrappers were.....I didn't even know what I had were probably bad until they were all traded away in the parks.   Now I'm much more careful with my trader pin purchases.  I've always been happy with my purchases from mousepinsonine, altho they do send Pro Pins I've been happy with some of those and kept them for my own collection.   I do think some of them are extremely pretty.  

Now, do we have a thread that has "good" sellers......?  I'd really like to know who has good pins for sale.


----------



## thelionqueen

pixiewings71 said:


> I bought from Pinfinder, some of my pins were scrappers.  He is sending me replacements, if they are bad I will attempt to return the whole lot for a refund.  I bought a lot of 50 as they were on sale at the time.  I also purchased from Shells7pak in the past, before I knew what scrappers were.....I didn't even know what I had were probably bad until they were all traded away in the parks.   Now I'm much more careful with my trader pin purchases.  I've always been happy with my purchases from mousepinsonine, altho they do send Pro Pins I've been happy with some of those and kept them for my own collection.   I do think some of them are extremely pretty.
> 
> Now, do we have a thread that has "good" sellers......?  I'd really like to know who has good pins for sale.



There are good sellers listed on this thread I can't remember all of them, but I do remember dopeys__emporium (but check previous posts to be certain).


----------



## pixiewings71

I saw Sleepy's Emporium.  I do buy from her and have received some very nice pins.  I didn't notice other names but I didn't read every post so I'll have to go back and reread.   I just thought it might be helpful to have a sticky thread with a list of "good" sellers in this forum.


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## MadHatter Pennies

pixiewings71 said:


> Now, do we have a thread that has "good" sellers......?  I'd really like to know who has good pins for sale.




The ones from this thread so far, plus some that list at a reasonable price and thier pictures show the original pin cards.

sleepys_emporium

olivejuiceyou21

domdisneypin

iloveanimation0

magical_day_shoppe

massdisneyfreak


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## Amy162

thelionqueen said:


> BTW, I live for everything Haunted Mansion and HM pins are rare and very desirable.  I would LOVE this set!  I hope the person who trades for them enjoys them!




I just received some pins from ebay (wish I had read this thread first!!!)

This is one that I recieved (not the one actually pictured here, but same type).  http://www.pinpics.com/cgi-bin/pin.cgi?pin=61414&sid=7635.1237083383
BUT I can't tell from this pic.. it looks like the eyes and hair should be black, is that right?  Or is it just the lighting?  The one I have is silver.

I ordered two lots from this particular seller, and ended up with 2 of the maleficent crystal ball ones, so I'm sure that I did get fakes.  I just wish I was able to tell 100%!


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## mom2ian

I just came across this thread after buying pins on ebay. I wished I had found this thread first. I wanted to buy some pins for my 3 year old son and 7 year old nephew to trade. I had no idea 'scrapper' pins even existed.

Now, I'm worried that the pins I bought in a lot are too good to be true.

Would any of you kind pin experts be able to tell from the auction pics if the pins are authentic or not? I don't have the pins in-hand yet. I expect them to arrive in the mail next week.

The ebay id is bibbidi_bobbidi_boo_colectibles (yes just one l in the word collectibles). The seller is offering pins for just 1.62 each. So, they are probably fake, right?

ETA: Auction id is 220365347609.


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## MadHatter Pennies

mom2ian said:


> The ebay id is bibbidi_bobbidi_boo_colectibles (yes just one l in the word collectibles). The seller is offering pins for just 1.62 each. So, they are probably fake, right?
> ETA: Auction id is 220365347609.



Yes they are probably fake.
Anybody selling pins only in a lot like that is, at best, questionable. Most of the good sellers seem to prefer to sell mostly individual pins. This is not certain, as you can't really tell what pins you will get from bibbidi bobbid's pictures.  

I personally would not buy from this particular dealer for two reasons, no clear idea of what you will get, and their music is annoying


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## Luv2Roam

I found the music too annoying to view the auction more closely too.  Like the song. Hate the way it's done there.

I agree lots use to be a great thing to buy. However I would be very suspect any more. More so when it is a lot that includes repeat pins.
I could see a lot of all different pins and you know specifically which ones you are buying. But just take a photo of a pile of pins, all which probably have scrapper warnings on Pinpics.

Again, you get what you pay for. Most traders in the parks are not going to know what is a scrapper or not. When I go to the parks I trade pins, and not that many. But I bet every time I come home I have at least one scrapper. I have found that more so when in DTD and MK.

Sometimes you cannot tell the difference between a scrapper and the real thing. Sometimes it is obvious once you have a chance to look the pin over.


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## Luv2Roam

Amy162 -- silver is correct.
Quite often when scanning pins silver turns out black in the photos.


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## thelionqueen

mom2ian said:


> I just came across this thread after buying pins on ebay. I wished I had found this thread first. I wanted to buy some pins for my 3 year old son and 7 year old nephew to trade. I had no idea 'scrapper' pins even existed.
> 
> Now, I'm worried that the pins I bought in a lot are too good to be true.
> 
> Would any of you kind pin experts be able to tell from the auction pics if the pins are authentic or not? I don't have the pins in-hand yet. I expect them to arrive in the mail next week.
> 
> The ebay id is bibbidi_bobbidi_boo_colectibles (yes just one l in the word collectibles). The seller is offering pins for just 1.62 each. So, they are probably fake, right?
> 
> ETA: Auction id is 220365347609.



OK, strictly based on the annoying music alone I would not buy from her! 
Seriously though, I did look at the auction and all others she is listing and you can be sure they are fake.  Although the picture she shows on ALL listings (HUGE red flag) is small and hard to see, the ones I could make out were not fake.  Until you get the lot and see what you get, you can't be sure.  But if you were to ask me my "professional" opinion prior to getting them, my thought would be yes, they are fakes.  And mostly for the main reasons posted on this thread as well as pinpics, etc.  Large lots of pins, non-descript and cheap = fake.
Once you receive them, let us know what you got and we will be able to tell you for sure.  I'm SO SORRY people who didn't know about scrappers are finding out the hard way.
There used to be a day (not too long ago actually-maybe a little over a year is all) that you could trade pins without a care in the world and that is how it is MEANT to be.  I will do my part to bring that day back, and it sounds like there are many (from the posts on this thread alone) just like me.  
That said, if you buy your pins from Disney and educate yourself (like this thread) pin trading can be extremely enjoyable.

I just don't see how some people can knowingly buy fake pins and justify trading them knowing the harm it does to everyone and pin trading in general.  I KNOW it is NOT cheap to pin trade (the right and intended way) and I KNOW kids likely don't care what they have to trade or what they get (they just like the act of the trade) I get all that.  So you turn a blind eye, or claim "I didn't know" or my kids don't care and go on with your trip without a care.  I DO NOT get that.  I consider myself a person of high morals and esteem and teach my children by example.  What would I be telling my kids by buying fake pins and trading them to others looking for the same joy?  Simple, I wouldn't.  What I am teaching my kids is that doing the right thing is NOT easy, it takes time, effort and diligence.  Maybe one day, when fakes are not traded I can look at them and say, "look what I helped do" and that is worth a heck of a lot more than $2 a pin.

At the end of the day, you are in Walt's Kingdom and dream and how many people really ask themselves.."What would Walt do"


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## junebugTN

thelionqueen said:


> I just don't see how some people can knowingly buy fake pins and justify trading them knowing the harm it does to everyone and pin trading in general.  I KNOW it is NOT cheap to pin trade (the right and intended way) and I KNOW kids likely don't care what they have to trade or what they get (they just like the act of the trade) I get all that.  So you turn a blind eye, or claim "I didn't know" or my kids don't care and go on with your trip without a care.  I DO NOT get that.  I consider myself a person of high morals and esteem and teach my children by example.  What would I be telling my kids by buying fake pins and trading them to others looking for the same joy?  Simple, I wouldn't.  What I am teaching my kids is that doing the right thing is NOT easy, it takes time, effort and diligence.  Maybe one day, when fakes are not traded I can look at them and say, "look what I helped do" and that is worth a heck of a lot more than $2 a pin.



Thanks so much for the work you've done fighting scrappers and educating people about them.  I feel the same way that you do but could never put it so eloquently.  The reason my family loves Disney is the whole happy/magical feeling of the place.  I could never knowingly ruin that by spreading fake pins to other children.  Every person that makes the choice NOT to bring scrappers into the parks is doing their part to spread the magic.  As a parent of an avid pin trader, I thank every one of you!   

June


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## Luv2Roam

In today's economy I would think there are collectors selling off their own personal collection. (I know that's what I would do if in jobless tough times. I have been collecting for years. So I have plenty of pins.)
I would be more looking for those sellers than I would for indiscriminate lots. The older pins are more likely to be legit I would think, as a rule of thumb.


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## DaveStroem

If your wanting to sell pins on Ebay one way to help fight this is to photograph each lot individually. When you add a line like "The pins in this photo are the actual pins you will receive" would go a long way for me. 

While this will take more time. It would show that the seller was not just selling whatever they could get their hands on this week.


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## mom2ian

Thanks everyone for all the excellent pin trading advice. I will keep the fake pins that I unknowingly bought from ebay at home. The kids can still play with them, but we'll keep them out of circulation.


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## Cars2006

Thank for this post  .  I'm sorry you received fakes.  I have learned a lot by reading this thread.  I was watching some of the sellers that were mention as fake seller.  I gueass I have to wait until we get to disney to get some pins.

If you do trade for a fake pin from a CM can you ask them nicely to trade it back or choose another?  My kids are young so they really won't understand.  I just want to do what is right!

Thanks


----------



## thelionqueen

Cars2006 said:


> Thank for this post  .  I'm sorry you received fakes.  I have learned a lot by reading this thread.  I was watching some of the sellers that were mention as fake seller.  I gueass I have to wait until we get to disney to get some pins.
> 
> If you do trade for a fake pin from a CM can you ask them nicely to trade it back or choose another?  My kids are young so they really won't understand.  I just want to do what is right!
> 
> Thanks



Yes you can most of the time (depending on the CM of course).  If you ask nicely and say they changed their mind or something, I would assume most of them would allow a "tradeback".


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## pixiewings71

So over the weekend I was looking at eBay and found a seller with pins up.  I'd watched a few of this persons auctions in the past, even been outbid on a few of them and actually won a couple (I checked my eBay feedback to be sure).  They specify that they are selling pins for a "sick family member" who has a "HUGE collection of pins" to liquidate for extra $$$ to pay for medical bills.  I clicked to watch a few and went thru a few more pages.  Noticed that they had quite a few of the colorful Mickeys from WDW listed and wondered because the last few of auction from this seller I was watching last year.  So....how is this "sick family member" getting brand new pins.  Each auction specifically states "I'm not an expert so contact me with questions before bidding" so I did.  I asked where these pins were coming from and the reponse I got was simply "i don't think it's any of your business".  I replied today "excuse me but it is my business.  You will be receiving MY money for these pins so I have every right to ask you this." So, I'm feeling that this person is dishonest in their claim to be selling someones collection for medical bills and I wanted to share their ID with you guys here.  tecarroll1964 is the seller in question.  I will not buy from someone who won't tell me where their pins come from, that just screams scrappers to me.  I did tell the seller that I would not be making any purchases from them.

Oh wow, I just got a reply from this person that was QUITE rude.......nasty words and everything.  This person is definitely defensive and IMO to be avoided!!

Update, this seller continues to be rude and provoking to me via eBay messages!  I can't believe this....I did make a couple of purchases from her in Sept 08 and I did get nice pins and she was very pleasant.  But apparently she didn't appreciate my question, she continues to tell me I was rude and accusatory in my first message, which was simply "Hello, I am curious, if you are selling someone's collection how do you have the new pins from 2009? Thank you for your time."....I do not read that as accusatory, she could simply have said "we have friends who go and they give me new pins to sell for our medical bills" or something similar, instead she tells me my question is "irrelevant to an eBay trans"???? HUH??? How is my asking that irrelevant?  I'm so baffled by her behavior!!! I told her I truly hope whomever in her family is sick is better soon and it's unfortunately that she misunderstood my question as I was happy with our past trans. but that there is no way I will deal with her in the future as she is being unreasonable and rude.  She has cursed at me and just been soooooo rude.......I'm just confused.........


----------



## bri911e

Can someone take a look at this seller on ebay Tooninterior  Thank you all for this thread, it has really tought me ALOT.  I guess the old saying is true- "You get what you pay for" 

I saw the previous post about good sellers/websites and would love to hear of any more.  I told my girls about the pin trading (we have been to Disney many times but just decided to start it with our trip in April) and wanted to get some pins before we arrived to get them started.

Bri


----------



## thelionqueen

bri911e said:


> Can someone take a look at this seller on ebay Tooninterior  Thank you all for this thread, it has really tought me ALOT.  I guess the old saying is true- "You get what you pay for"
> 
> I saw the previous post about good sellers/websites and would love to hear of any more.  I told my girls about the pin trading (we have been to Disney many times but just decided to start it with our trip in April) and wanted to get some pins before we arrived to get them started.
> 
> Bri



Hi Bri,
I've looked at these auctions, and while the picture shows authentic pins (mostly) the description states the same "Red Flag" points.  No duplicates over under 10 pins (buying in lots), cast lanyards, and in individual bags...ALL main descriptions of scrappers.

The BEST advice is to buy the pins when you get to Disney. They are available for sale at every park, every resort and all over DTD and other places.  You don't need to get them in advance and shlep them down to WDW, especially if they're scrappers.  If you buy them @ Disney you don't need to question if they are fake or not.  My personal opinion of this seller, not having seen the pins or anyone to substantiate my opinion, is that they are fakes.  He is listing SEVERAL lots/auctions all with the same description (non-descript HUGE red flag among many others previously listed) I would strongly suggest avoiding this seller.  My 02


----------



## AlternateEgo

pixiewings71 said:


> So over the weekend I was looking at eBay and found a seller with pins up.  I'd watched a few of this persons auctions in the past, even been outbid on a few of them and actually won a couple (I checked my eBay feedback to be sure).  They specify that they are selling pins for a "sick family member" who has a "HUGE collection of pins" to liquidate for extra $$$ to pay for medical bills.  I clicked to watch a few and went thru a few more pages.  Noticed that they had quite a few of the colorful Mickeys from WDW listed and wondered because the last few of auction from this seller I was watching last year.  So....how is this "sick family member" getting brand new pins.  Each auction specifically states "I'm not an expert so contact me with questions before bidding" so I did.  I asked where these pins were coming from and the reponse I got was simply "i don't think it's any of your business".  I replied today "excuse me but it is my business.  You will be receiving MY money for these pins so I have every right to ask you this." So, I'm feeling that this person is dishonest in their claim to be selling someones collection for medical bills and I wanted to share their ID with you guys here.  tecarroll1964 is the seller in question.  I will not buy from someone who won't tell me where their pins come from, that just screams scrappers to me.  I did tell the seller that I would not be making any purchases from them.
> 
> Oh wow, I just got a reply from this person that was QUITE rude.......nasty words and everything.  This person is definitely defensive and IMO to be avoided!!
> 
> Update, this seller continues to be rude and provoking to me via eBay messages!  I can't believe this....I did make a couple of purchases from her in Sept 08 and I did get nice pins and she was very pleasant.  But apparently she didn't appreciate my question, she continues to tell me I was rude and accusatory in my first message, which was simply "Hello, I am curious, if you are selling someone's collection how do you have the new pins from 2009? Thank you for your time."....I do not read that as accusatory, she could simply have said "we have friends who go and they give me new pins to sell for our medical bills" or something similar, instead she tells me my question is "irrelevant to an eBay trans"???? HUH??? How is my asking that irrelevant?  I'm so baffled by her behavior!!! I told her I truly hope whomever in her family is sick is better soon and it's unfortunately that she misunderstood my question as I was happy with our past trans. but that there is no way I will deal with her in the future as she is being unreasonable and rude.  She has cursed at me and just been soooooo rude.......I'm just confused.........



I just sent her a message to ask if she has the backing for the pins.  
That is the only way I will buy, other than Disney itself


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## pixiewings71

AlternateEgo said:


> I just sent her a message to ask if she has the backing for the pins.
> That is the only way I will buy, other than Disney itself



I'm sure she won't have backings but you might get lucky.   However the pin I was questioning in particular is a Hidden Mickey so it wouldn't have a backing anyway.  I hope she is not as rude to you as she was to me!


----------



## HowieHowie

hey there everyone.  im scott and on my dads name that he made years ago but never uses, yeah i know i think the name is crazy too.  haha.  ok now for the on topic discussion.  forgive me if this was already said but i got up to page 3 or so and stopped reading to reply, i guess my 21 year old mind can't stay focused for so long... haha.  ok, so again im 21 and iv been trading for years.  i understand what everyone is saying where you would want to ask for the pin backing and the reciept but what about the lanyard/hidden mickey pins?  those don't come with pin backings, therefore no price and no number that i can't spell(hahaha).  so how do you know if those are fake?  my mom was telling me that she was reading on these boards that the lanyard feet(the ones that look like they are foot prints from a puddle or something) the tink teardrops, the villian crystal balls and the rear view mirrors are all fake.  how does everyone know this?  with this accusation, you mean to tell me that EVERY SINGLE ONE of those pins are fake?  cause disney makes hundreds and hurdreds, if not thousands of those pins, so you mean to tell me that disney only makes like 20 of these and then the rest are fake?  i find this hard to believe.

now as for the lots on ebay.  i have bought about 5 lots on ebay in the past year or so(we go to WDW twice a year and me and my sister- 14 trade at least 100 each so we need alot of pins... but thats besides the point) these people that are selling lets say 5 lots for 100 pins may just be wanting to get rid of his/her pins as they might have 500.  between me and my sister we have easily 400-600 pins.  so just because we want to now sell them to make money means we are selling scrappers?  also, the person may not even know that they are scrappers so thats another thing to think about too.  i have never seen a lot of 100 for less than $140.  idk, maybe im missing the point or i may just be young and stupid but i don't think everyone knows what they have and what they are selling.

so to finalize my points in simple sentences that don't take forever to say.... how do we ask for pin backings on lanyard/hidden mickey pins since they can't be bought? and how do we know if those are fake?  and finally, just because someone sells a lot of 100 and has 5 of them doesn't mean they are scrappers, they could just want to get rid of their pins.

again, my apologies if this has been said before, im 21 and we all know 21 year olds don't have great attention spans.. hahaha


----------



## thelionqueen

HowieHowie said:


> hey there everyone.  im scott and on my dads name that he made years ago but never uses, yeah i know i think the name is crazy too.  haha.  ok now for the on topic discussion.  forgive me if this was already said but i got up to page 3 or so and stopped reading to reply, i guess my 21 year old mind can't stay focused for so long... haha.  ok, so again im 21 and iv been trading for years.  i understand what everyone is saying where you would want to ask for the pin backing and the reciept but what about the lanyard/hidden mickey pins?  those don't come with pin backings, therefore no price and no number that i can't spell(hahaha).  so how do you know if those are fake?  my mom was telling me that she was reading on these boards that the lanyard feet(the ones that look like they are foot prints from a puddle or something) the tink teardrops, the villian crystal balls and the rear view mirrors are all fake.  how does everyone know this?  with this accusation, you mean to tell me that EVERY SINGLE ONE of those pins are fake?  cause disney makes hundreds and hurdreds, if not thousands of those pins, so you mean to tell me that disney only makes like 20 of these and then the rest are fake?  i find this hard to believe.
> 
> now as for the lots on ebay.  i have bought about 5 lots on ebay in the past year or so(we go to WDW twice a year and me and my sister- 14 trade at least 100 each so we need alot of pins... but thats besides the point) these people that are selling lets say 5 lots for 100 pins may just be wanting to get rid of his/her pins as they might have 500.  between me and my sister we have easily 400-600 pins.  so just because we want to now sell them to make money means we are selling scrappers?  also, the person may not even know that they are scrappers so thats another thing to think about too.  i have never seen a lot of 100 for less than $140.  idk, maybe im missing the point or i may just be young and stupid but i don't think everyone knows what they have and what they are selling.
> 
> so to finalize my points in simple sentences that don't take forever to say.... how do we ask for pin backings on lanyard/hidden mickey pins since they can't be bought? and how do we know if those are fake?  and finally, just because someone sells a lot of 100 and has 5 of them doesn't mean they are scrappers, they could just want to get rid of their pins.
> 
> again, my apologies if this has been said before, im 21 and we all know 21 year olds don't have great attention spans.. hahaha




I'm going to keep in mind that you are 21 as I write this  

#1, nobody said all of the hidden mickey lots you listed (that I also listed) are fake.  There are very specific pins in each of those lots that are the most counterfeited.  If you looked at my post (I realize you did not) you will see that I listed specific pins in those specific groups of pins that were the most commonly counterfeited.  (Maleficent in Villains crystal balls, cinderella in rear view mirrors, mickey footprints, etc)

#2, you stated that you and your sister trade around 100 per day each, so are you buying these pins from Disney or from ebay?  If you were buying actual Disney pins and trading that volume, that is easily around $1,000 worth of volume trading authentic Disney pins.  If you bought them from ebay, and bought scrappers (which I'm assuming you did) then you are spending only around $200.  

#3 As stated previously in this thread (I realize you did not read them all) the VAST majority of those selling pin lots on ebay are scrappers.  In fact (and I didn't search all of ebay, but spent over an hour looking for "disney pin lot") EVERY SINGLE SELLER with any quantity over 25 had all the "markings" of a seller listing scrappers.  The "markings" or "red flags" are that there is NO detailed description.  The same picture is listed for every auction.  It lists something like "cast lanyard pins, no sedesmas, etc".  They sell many many lots of these pins WITHOUT detailed descriptions (indicating buying in bulk).   They are sold in little plastic baggies (scrappers are), and the winner bidder will receive "a sampling, but not necessarily the pins pictured".  I could go on and on, but you should read the entire thread to become better versed on these "red flags"

#4 I have not seen ANY lots of pins that are described in detail as to what you will get from a seller selling multiple lots of pins for cheap

#5 If you have been pin trading as long as you say, and you decided to sell your collection (I'm assuming you bought them from Disney around $8 per pin) WHY would you sell them all in bulk for under $2?  And NOT list a picture, AND put them in little baggies?  Maybe you have an answer for all this, which would make you the LONE exception to the rule.   People who buy CHEAP, FAKE pins couldn't care less about selling them for $1.89.  People who are pin traders, who bought and traded their pins, are LIKELY to list them separately OR in a lot for a MUCH higher price.

#6 If a seller is selling hundreds or in some cases THOUSANDS of pins cheap, THEY are COUNTEFEIT, PERIOD.  If there were the very rare case of someone selling their personal collection, it is LIKELY they would put that in the title and show a picture of the pins they were selling, not a "stock" picture and description.

I'm not going to go on, as I don't want you to feel as if I'm picking on you, I am NOT!  I just want you to know what was actually said and discussed on this thread as it pertains to your questions.  You seem like a high volume trader (so am I) but I sincerely hope you are NOT trading scrappers.  And if you are, and weren't aware of it, I hope you are aware now and don't do it anymore.  Trading that volume, from just 2 people has a HUGE impact on all the other pin traders trading, and looking for authentic Disney pins.

My last thought for you is this, the VAST majority of sellers on ebay, selling Disney pins in lots for around $2 are fakes or "scrappers" period.  I am not going to say absolutely everyone ever, but I have YET to find someone selling their own colletion of pins for this amount, and I look every single day (completed auctions too-NADA).  I'm referring to lots of over 25 (I've found some lots of like 10 to be legit, but only about 10%, the rest, you guessed it..scrappers).

This thread is intended to open people's eyes that were not previously aware of what they were buying or trading, I hope it did that for you.  Or at the very least, made you think.  Hope it wasn't scathing, it was not meant to be


----------



## sanibelsettler

Actually, I can think of many reasons why someone would do all of the above.  I  have about 2000 pins.  Right now, my husband may be on the verge of being laid off.  $4000 would be a blessing.  Selling each would take forever.  And I don't have the time to do so.  

My trading pins have all been purchased in bulk from Disney. Several years ago, I bought about 1000 during the best clearance sale ever on disneyshopping.  I also bought bulk at the disney store, several times.

Mine aren't for sale right now, but I think that you are overstating.  

And, when I was 21 I was in the midst of a master's degree.  It isn't normal to have a short attention span.


----------



## bgohre

I belive LionQueen is very passionate about pin trading and I appreciate that, I really do. But the fact of the matter is that she is overstating. 

Before my last trip to disney I bought a lot of 200 pins on ebay. Bought them for about $2.00 a pin. When they came, they were all in nice little baggies, and not one, now let me repeat this NOT ONE was a duplicate. I received 200 different pins. Which by the way, was kind of a pain because we were splitting the lot with my Mom and Sister so it was a fight trying to decide who got what. Just for the record, I'm 42 and I too have short attention...hey look cheese.  

Anyway, I believe that there are a lot of scrapper pins out there and alot of them are ending up on ebay in these lots. However, I think we have to be careful when we paint with a broad brush and say "If a seller is selling hundreds or in some cases THOUSANDS of pins cheap, THEY are COUNTEFEIT, PERIOD". Now did the person I buy from buy scrappers, go to the park and trade them? I don't know, I doubt it, but I have no way of knowing. 

I'm not saying counterfeit pins aren't out there, they are and I would bet that there are a large majority of us that have them in our collection. But I'm not willing to throw ALL cheap pin sellers under the bus.


----------



## thelionqueen

Bghore-I agree that I (in one paragraph) was painting with a "broad brush", but if you read the entire post, I also stated..._*.."My last thought for you is this, the VAST majority of sellers on ebay, selling Disney pins in lots for around $2 are fakes or "scrappers" period. I am not going to say absolutely everyone ever, but I have YET to find someone selling their own colletion of pins for this amount, and I look every single day (completed auctions too-NADA). "*_, but point well taken, my passion regarding this issue can come across in a way that is unintended, but I believe I clarified further in the post.  As far as the pins you bought on ebay, I'm sure you didn't receive duplicates, that is only one of the issues brought up on this thread, but receiving them in baggies is one of the top triggers that they are scrappers.  I too received a lot, of 100 actually with no duplicates, and in plastic baggies, that, at a glance looked authentic.  Each and every one (no duplicates) was a scrapper.  Not saying the ones you got are or aren't, I'm just saying that the description you gave indicates that they are fakes.  Again, what the person that bought them, does with them, is up to them.  

Sanibel-I too have bought bulk pins from Disneyshopping.com and Disney Store, and I have well over 10,000 pins; not including my family of 4, each of whom EASILY has over 1,000.  I totally get buying in bulk, and encourage it whenever Disney sells them at a highly discounted rate.  I can totally see how someone with a large collection might have a "fire sale" to get much needed cash, I get that.  My point is that, the Vast Majority of sellers (not saying every single one, but nearly all of them) selling their pins in bulk, are NOT pin traders selling their collections.  They are in fact selling large lots of fake pins for nearly nothing, and that is what my point is in responding to this thread.  I am confident, that every once-in-awhile there WILL be someone strapped for cash and having to sell their collections, but that is SO rare and honestly I haven't seen one on ebay yet (disclaimer-I don't troll ebay 24/7, so this is just what I've witnessed when I look).  When I do see one, I would happily bid on their pins and praise them to everyone who will listen, fact is, there aren't any out there that I've seen.  As far as addressing a 21 year old's attention span, I mentioned it "tongue-in-cheek" as the original 21 year old poster addressed it himself many times, it was purely done in humor, which I thought was clear in my post.  If it was not, no ill itent was meant for anyone (disclaimer).  I am 39 and cannot say my attention span is any better than it was then..strike that..reverse it, it's better, but not much  
BTW, if you do decide to sell your pin collection (I TRULY hope it doesn't come to that  ) I'm sure many people on the DIS would be happy bidders on those auctions!


----------



## txloopnlil

I'm one of those newbies who ordered pins for my kids off ebay - and then saw this thread.  I just got the first batch and after spending several hours looking them up on pin pics I found 6 out of 20 with scrapper/counterfeit warnings (one seems to be legit though) -I have 5 bad pins out of 20. The bad pins do feel lighter, and/or low quality, in comparison to the good one.  Lots of the good ones are from broken up sets.

I have one unknown pin - Mickey Mouse saluting with an uncle sam top hat - NO flag - the back has the mouse head "official pin trading" stamp 2007 and copyright Disney China.  It feels heavy and looks sharp, no flaws etc., so I think it is legit, but why would it not be on pinpics?

I estimate I have 70-75% good pins - what sort of ratio would a bunch of new traders like us have after a few days of trading at WDW?  I've already told my kids we have to leave the bad pins at home.

I paid about $1.70/ea, but if I throw out the bad ones I still only paid $2.28 ea - still a good deal in my opinion.  What should I do? Should I ask them to exchange or refund the bad pins?

Here is what the listing said:

_LOT OF 20 DISNEY TRADING PINS


 Is your family getting ready to go to Disney and do you want some great Disney pins to trade with Disney Cast members, but dont want to pay $6.95 to $12.95 per pin ? 

With this auction you will receive 20 different Disney pins that are 100 % tradable in any of the parks at a fraction of the cost.

You will NOT get all the pins shown in the pictures, this auction is for 20 pins only.
Pictures are only a sample of the pins that I have had.  I am constantly trading for new pins, and the 20 pins you receive may or may not be shown in this picture. *Winning multiple pin lots may result in receiving some duplicate pins.* 

These are all-metal Disney pins with the official © Disney backstamp and rubber backs.  Pins in this lot are in very good or like-new condition, but some may show signs of trading. There are NO Spanish Sedesma pins, NO German ProPins & NO Euro-Disney pins in this lot.  I have put each pin in a plastic bag to protect them during shipping, however for optimum trading experiences, be sure to remove from bags and place on your lanyards before getting to the parks.
If you have any questions about this auction contact me through Ebay before bidding._


----------



## pixiewings71

You can try contacting the seller but many times when I've done that I've received very rude responses.  The favored reply seems to be "prove to me that they are fake" which of course cannot be done.


----------



## LittleFlounder

pixiewings71 said:


> You can try contacting the seller but many times when I've done that I've received very rude responses.  The favored reply seems to be "prove to me that they are fake" which of course cannot be done.



My response was very different ! As I mentioned earlier in this thread, back in October '08 I bought a lot of 50 pins on Ebay- all scrappers except 1 of them. I emailed the seller and flat out told them.. the pins I got are not authentic, they are scrappers, i expect a refund. The seller replied very politely, saying the quality of pins they're getting at the parks is decreasing, etc etc.. and they told me to send them back and they'd give me a refund. No problem at all. In the note I sent back with the pins I requested a refund of ALL the costs (of the price I paid, the shipping amount and the cost for me to send them back) since the auction said they were authentic pins, and they were not. The seller emailed saying they don't normally refund the shopping costs, but they would in this case as a "good gesture". I'm sure they were being so nice to make me happy and keep their feedback at 100%. Seems they knew, fully well, that they were selling scrappers. 


.


----------



## missj1975

txloopnlil said:


> I have one unknown pin - Mickey Mouse saluting with an uncle sam top hat - NO flag - the back has the mouse head "official pin trading" stamp 2007 and copyright Disney China.  It feels heavy and looks sharp, no flaws etc., so I think it is legit, but why would it not be on pinpics? [/I]



Pinpics is not an official Disney website. It is just a database put together by pin collectors who rely on other pin collectors to add pins to the database.  Anyone can add a pin to the database as long as they have a pinpics user id. Anyone can also add a comment (opinion) as long as they have a pinpics user id.

So basically, pinpics is a very good database but it is not a complete database.  Just because a pin is not in the database does not mean it is not an official disney pin.  It just means no one has got around to adding it to the database yet.  

Pinpics is one of my favorite websites but just like most everything else on the web, not everything is completely accurate.  The moderators do their best to make sure the listing description are accurate.  Each listing also has a section for "comments" and I have noticed a growing trend of users marking pins as scrappers for reasons that I don't necessarily agree with.  The database is put together by pin collectors who are human and can make mistakes.  That being said, it is still a great database and for the most part is very accurate.


----------



## pixiewings71

LittleFlounder said:


> My response was very different ! As I mentioned earlier in this thread, back in October '08 I bought a lot of 50 pins on Ebay- all scrappers except 1 of them. I emailed the seller and flat out told them.. the pins I got are not authentic, they are scrappers, i expect a refund. The seller replied very politely, saying the quality of pins they're getting at the parks is decreasing, etc etc.. and they told me to send them back and they'd give me a refund. No problem at all. In the note I sent back with the pins I requested a refund of ALL the costs (of the price I paid, the shipping amount and the cost for me to send them back) since the auction said they were authentic pins, and they were not. The seller emailed saying they don't normally refund the shopping costs, but they would in this case as a "good gesture". I'm sure they were being so nice to make me happy and keep their feedback at 100%. Seems they knew, fully well, that they were selling scrappers.
> 
> 
> .



That is amazing.  The times I've received pins I knew were scrappers (backstamp was totally incorrect) and notified the sellers I've received the response stated above.  I've then filed with Paypal to get a refund and Paypal denied the refunds.


----------



## LittleFlounder

pixiewings71 said:


> That is amazing.  The times I've received pins I knew were scrappers (backstamp was totally incorrect) and notified the sellers I've received the response stated above.  I've then filed with Paypal to get a refund and Paypal denied the refunds.



Oh, I didn't have to go through Paypal to get the refund. The seller refunded money.


----------



## BigGreen73

I have bought quite a few lots from E-bay for trading and never have had any problems. The big thing that I go for is that the lot needs to show the pins that you are getting and not "may" get etc etc. That has worked out okay for me..

There are so many reasons why folks may need to or have to sell pins for less than retail or what they bought them for etc so don't get scared off if the "deal is too good to be true".  Just be careful and just research prior to buying if you suspect anything.

Most lots I have bought vary from $2-$4 dollars a pin if mostly hidden mickeys and $3-$6 a pin if mostly rack pins.

I buy pins to trade and for my enjoyment only. I do not buy because I hope they are worth something etc. If a time comes where I need to or want to get rid of them, I would either give them away or sell em for no more that $1-$2 a pop anyway.


----------



## disneymotherof3

I've tried reading all the info on here, but it's a bit overwhelming.  I've ordered pins off of eBay a few times, most recently last night!  How can I tell scrappers from real pins?  How do I find out on pinpics what are scrappers?


----------



## txloopnlil

I emailed the seller that I appreciated the fast shipping, but that 30%  of the pins (found another one) were scrappers and I thought that ratio was too high. I noted that we were leaving for WDW in less than a week so there would not be time to exchange them for good pins, and asked for a 25% refund (shipping was included so I didn't demand 30%).  I got a very nice reply and immediate partial refund.  I did leave positive feedback, but noted the scrapper percentage and that the seller gave a partial refund for them.

In the reply the seller indicated that it would OK to use the scrappers still - that I would have no problem trading them in the parks!  I reply back that I would NOT be taking them to the parks, and that leaving them in circulation was bad for the trading community and depresses the market.

I wanted to send them a link to a famous essay in environmental sciences: "The tragedy of the commons"  
from but my old bookmarked site was gone. Here is a synopsis from Wikipedia - I think scrappers et al are a perfect example of this in action.
Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons
"_The Tragedy of the Commons" is an influential article written by Garrett Hardin and first published in the journal Science in 1968.[1] The article describes a dilemma in which multiple individuals acting independently in their own self-interest can ultimately destroy a shared limited resource even when it is clear that it is not in anyone's long term interest for this to happen.

Central to Hardin's article is a metaphor of herders sharing a common parcel of land (the commons), on which they are all entitled to let their cows graze. In Hardin's view, it is in each herder's interest to put as many cows as possible onto the land, even if the commons are damaged as a result. The herder receives all of the benefits from the additional cows, while the damage to the commons is shared by the entire group. If all herders make this individually rational decision, however, the commons are destroyed and all herders suffer._



txloopnlil said:


> I'm one of those newbies who ordered pins for my kids off ebay - and then saw this thread.  I just got the first batch and after spending several hours looking them up on pin pics I found 6 out of 20 with scrapper/counterfeit warnings (one seems to be legit though) -I have 5 bad pins out of 20. The bad pins do feel lighter, and/or low quality, in comparison to the good one.  Lots of the good ones are from broken up sets.
> 
> I have one unknown pin - Mickey Mouse saluting with an uncle sam top hat - NO flag - the back has the mouse head "official pin trading" stamp 2007 and copyright Disney China.  It feels heavy and looks sharp, no flaws etc., so I think it is legit, but why would it not be on pinpics?
> 
> I estimate I have 70-75% good pins - what sort of ratio would a bunch of new traders like us have after a few days of trading at WDW?  I've already told my kids we have to leave the bad pins at home.
> 
> I paid about $1.70/ea, but if I throw out the bad ones I still only paid $2.28 ea - still a good deal in my opinion.  What should I do? Should I ask them to exchange or refund the bad pins?
> 
> Here is what the listing said:
> 
> _LOT OF 20 DISNEY TRADING PINS
> 
> 
> Is your family getting ready to go to Disney and do you want some great Disney pins to trade with Disney Cast members, but don’t want to pay $6.95 to $12.95 per pin ?
> 
> With this auction you will receive 20 different Disney pins that are 100 % tradable in any of the parks at a fraction of the cost.
> 
> You will NOT get all the pins shown in the pictures, this auction is for 20 pins only.
> Pictures are only a sample of the pins that I have had.  I am constantly trading for new pins, and the 20 pins you receive may or may not be shown in this picture. *Winning multiple pin lots may result in receiving some duplicate pins.*
> 
> These are all-metal Disney pins with the official © Disney backstamp and rubber backs.  Pins in this lot are in very good or like-new condition, but some may show signs of trading. There are NO Spanish Sedesma pins, NO German ProPins & NO Euro-Disney pins in this lot.  I have put each pin in a plastic bag to protect them during shipping, however for optimum trading experiences, be sure to remove from bags and place on your lanyards before getting to the parks.
> If you have any questions about this auction contact me through Ebay before bidding._


----------



## pixiewings71

txloopnlil said:


> I emailed the seller that I appreciated the fast shipping, but that 30%  of the pins (found another one) were scrappers and I thought that ratio was too high. I noted that we were leaving for WDW in less than a week so there would not be time to exchange them for good pins, and asked for a 25% refund (shipping was included so I didn't demand 30%).  I got a very nice reply and immediate partial refund.  I did leave positive feedback, but noted the scrapper percentage and that the seller gave a partial refund for them.
> 
> In the reply the seller indicated that it would OK to use the scrappers still - that I would have no problem trading them in the parks!  I reply back that I would NOT be taking them to the parks, and that leaving them in circulation was bad for the trading community and depresses the market.
> 
> I wanted to send them a link to a famous essay in environmental sciences: "The tragedy of the commons"
> from but my old bookmarked site was gone. Here is a synopsis from Wikipedia - I think scrappers et al are a perfect example of this in action.
> Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons
> "_The Tragedy of the Commons" is an influential article written by Garrett Hardin and first published in the journal Science in 1968.[1] The article describes a dilemma in which multiple individuals acting independently in their own self-interest can ultimately destroy a shared limited resource even when it is clear that it is not in anyone's long term interest for this to happen.
> 
> Central to Hardin's article is a metaphor of herders sharing a common parcel of land (the commons), on which they are all entitled to let their cows graze. In Hardin's view, it is in each herder's interest to put as many cows as possible onto the land, even if the commons are damaged as a result. The herder receives all of the benefits from the additional cows, while the damage to the commons is shared by the entire group. If all herders make this individually rational decision, however, the commons are destroyed and all herders suffer._



I'm glad that you got a partial refund.  It seems that there are more sellers willing to work with buyers for those positives.  I also think it's great that you noted the partial refund and the scrapper %.


----------



## MadHatter Pennies

disneymotherof3 said:


> I've tried reading all the info on here, but it's a bit overwhelming.  I've ordered pins off of eBay a few times, most recently last night!  How can I tell scrappers from real pins?  How do I find out on pinpics what are scrappers?



 
goto http://www.pinpics.com/mypins.htm
find a yellow help. Click it.
read the heading:
What is a bootleg pin?
at the end of that faq is a link called:
this link


----------



## disneymotherof3

MadHatter Pennies said:


> goto http://www.pinpics.com/mypins.htm
> find a yellow help. Click it.
> read the heading:
> What is a bootleg pin?
> at the end of that faq is a link called:
> this link



Thank you for posting that info.  I'm still a little confused though.  So the pictures of the pins that they have listed in the link, those are all scrappers?  I know that Disney made legit ones of some of the pins they have shown, but how do we know what's legit and what's not?  We have a few of the pins that are shown so I want to figure out what's good and what's not.


----------



## Luv2Roam

> With this auction you will receive 20 different Disney pins that are 100 % tradeable in any of the parks at a fraction of the cost.
> 
> These are all-metal Disney pins with the official © Disney backstamp and rubber backs.



Well, they certainly are not guaranteeing they are not scrappers. Very few CMs in the parks probably even know what a scrapper is or cares. If I was a CM trading with guests I certainly would not look at pins with a jewelers loupe. CMs are there to provide guest satisfaction and service.
Even bootlegs have the Disney (c) stamped on the back. No biggie there either.

Really unless a pin is purchased direct from Disney does anyone truly know if they have a legit pin or not.

I do think some go scrapper crazy and think even flawed pins are scrappers. I was looking at a Pinpics description today on one of my pins and noticed someone is claiming there are scrappers of those around. However they did not state why they think that.  
I usually don't give much credence to whether there are scrappers unless they state what the difference is.
The pin I read about today was one I purchased direct from Disney. I know mine is legit.

As someone mentioned Pinpics is a database where collectors, such as myself, add pins or provide details. I do both quite often.

I am Omega on Picpics.


----------



## MadHatter Pennies

disneymotherof3 said:


> So the pictures of the pins that they have listed in the link, those are all scrappers?  I know that Disney made legit ones of some of the pins they have shown, but how do we know what's legit and what's not?


from pinpics help page
"Please be advised that there are unauthorized versions of these pins being sold from China directly to individuals not associated with Disney. *No one*_ can guarantee the authenticity of this pin unless it was *purchased directly from Disney.*_ What does this mean?
These pins are known as Scrappers. Scrappers are pins that were made in the factories in China over the allotment made by Disney. Are they a Disney pin? Yes they are,_* but*_ they are pins over and above the allotment "ordered" by Disney. So in essence, they could be called illegally made Disney Pins. *Sometimes* when the "second illegal run" of the pin is done, there are differences noted, but *it can only be known comparing two pins side by side*. These pins can also be classified as counterfeits. For more information regarding which pins are considered scrappers please check out..."

from me 
Like someone else stated earlier in this post... until Disney quits allowing   child slavers in China  to produce their products and brings manufacturing jobs to a country that can police its copyright laws, there will be illegal  real Disney pins made by the manufacturer that makes the pin for Disney. PeRiOd 
_Sometimes_ there is a flaw; a color change, bumps, blurs, or missing wr ing or lines. 
The only difference in _some_ scrappers is that Disney doesn't make any profit. People buy these in bulk from China, sell in America and other countries 'at retail' for $1.25, and make a profit. That means that Disney selling them at $8.95+tax is making a  profit of (approx) 800% 
Also the Limited Editions that Disney certifies are real are not likely to be truly limited


----------



## disneymotherof3

MadHatter Pennies said:


> from pinpics help page
> "Please be advised that there are unauthorized versions of these pins being sold from China directly to individuals not associated with Disney. *No one*_ can guarantee the authenticity of this pin unless it was *purchased directly from Disney.*_ What does this mean?
> These pins are known as Scrappers. Scrappers are pins that were made in the factories in China over the allotment made by Disney. Are they a Disney pin? Yes they are,_* but*_ they are pins over and above the allotment "ordered" by Disney. So in essence, they could be called illegally made Disney Pins. *Sometimes* when the "second illegal run" of the pin is done, there are differences noted, but *it can only be known comparing two pins side by side*. These pins can also be classified as counterfeits. For more information regarding which pins are considered scrappers please check out..."
> 
> from me
> Like someone else stated earlier in this post... until Disney quits allowing   child slavers in China  to produce their products and brings manufacturing jobs to a country that can police its copyright laws, there will be illegal  real Disney pins made by the manufacturer that makes the pin for Disney. PeRiOd
> _Sometimes_ there is a flaw; a color change, bumps, blurs, or missing wiring or lines.
> The only difference in _some_ scrappers is that Disney doesn't make any profit. People buy these in bulk from China, sell in America and other countries 'at retail' for $1.25, and make a profit. That means that Disney selling them at $8.95+tax is making a  profit of (approx) 800%
> Also the Limited Editions that Disney certifies are real are not likely to be truly limited



I saw that on there, but for me, it really didn't answer my question.  I guess I would have to actually see the pins side by side to tell.  I just didn't know if there was a different marking on something like that on the back of the pin.


----------



## MadHatter Pennies

No different markings on some. On some, esp. limited editions, the markings on the back may be different. Some of the scrappers will be so good, even if you have them side by side with a pin you personaly bought in Disneyland/World, you won't be able to tell the differance. 
The only way to know you have a Disney authorized pin is to buy it from Disney. Period. Anyone could have a pin they traded that was not originaly bought from Disney. Even if you trade it with a CM it could be 'fake.' Becuase they have to trade, they could recieve a fake from anyone, and if they were to set it aside because they thought it was fake, they could lose thier job or even be prosecuted for theft.


----------



## pixiewings71

MadHatter Pennies said:


> No different markings on some. On some, esp. limited editions, the markings on the back may be different. Some of the scrappers will be so good, even if you have them side by side with a pin you personaly bought in Disneyland/World, you won't be able to tell the differance.
> The only way to know you have a Disney authorized pin is to buy it from Disney. Period. Anyone could have a pin they traded that was not originaly bought from Disney. Even if you trade it with a CM it could be 'fake.' Becuase they have to trade, they could recieve a fake from anyone, and *if they were to set it aside because they thought it was fake, they could lose thier job or even be prosecuted for theft.*



Not correct, I've seen many a CM put a pin in their pocket or in the drawer in their "area".  When I've asked about it they have told me they think it may be a scrapper.  A few times I've been allowed to see the pin and they were all scrappers.


----------



## MadHatter Pennies

That's good to know. On one pin thread I read about one family's experience. Thier son saw a cast member trade a pin. He wanted the pin the CM got. The CM put the pin in a drawer. The family reported the cast member. A supervisor said that was considered theft, and thanked the family for the report. I considered at the time I read the post that the CM might have spotted a fake. 
I didn't even know about 'scrappers' then, I think.


----------



## thelionqueen

In my daily ebay trolling I DID find, what looks like a legit, ebay seller!  YES, believe it or not, I'm not bashing a fake seller (which out rank the authentic pin sellers 100 to 1).  The ebay seller is hppydiztrader, and here is one of his/her auctions.  Nice pins, no fakes, good deal for those wanted pins to trade that aren't fakes.  Just wanted to share!
http://cgi.ebay.com/DISNEY-PIN-LOT-...5|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:0|293:1|294:50


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## sanibelsettler

I think I've purchased from them.  The name sounds familiar.


----------



## pixiewings71

I've got them in my favorites on eBay.   They have sent me good stuff in the past but I don't recall buying quite such a large lot from them! WOW!!


----------



## CO Lacrosse Mom

Does anyone know where to buy authentic pins for a fair price?

Has anyone had any issues with trading on Disney cruises?


----------



## thelionqueen

CO Lacrosse Mom said:


> Does anyone know where to buy authentic pins for a fair price?
> 
> Has anyone had any issues with trading on Disney cruises?



Hello from a fellow Coloradoan!
There are a few ebay sellers listed on this thread, 
dopeys__emporium (not sure on this one, could be grumpy..lol)
hppydiztrader
that have auctions for authentic pins on the resale market.  
We have not specifically discussed pin trading on cruises, but I'm fairly certain you will have the same issues on the cruise as in the parks.  Many people are like you, looking for pins at a fair price, and buying scrappers (many probably unknowingly) on ebay.  They will trade them at whichever location they end up at, including cruises.  I would say keep an eye out on the cruise as well for fakes.
That said, you can find pins on sale all the time at disneyshopping.com, and on the cruise itself.  They have "starter" packs that are $35.00 for 7 pins ($5 a piece).  Yes it's more than some, but less than the rack pins.  And most importantly you won't have to worry if they're authentic or if they can be traded.  Buying them from Disney insures they are authentic.
Hope that helps and enjoy your cruise!!


----------



## pixiewings71

FYI, it's sleepys_emporium.   Also I believe that the seller gitanoman is legit.  I've purchased in the past and am in the process of bidding.  I'll update after I get the pins from her.


----------



## thelionqueen

pixiewings71 said:


> FYI, it's sleepys_emporium.




Hilarious!  At least I was in the correct dwarf family..LOL.  Thanks much for the clarification!


----------



## pixiewings71

LOL No problem!!!  I'm in the processing of making purchases from Sleepy, some really nice pins!!


----------



## ariel53098

thelionqueen said:


> In my daily ebay trolling I DID find, what looks like a legit, ebay seller!  YES, believe it or not, I'm not bashing a fake seller (which out rank the authentic pin sellers 100 to 1).  The ebay seller is hppydiztrader, and here is one of his/her auctions.  Nice pins, no fakes, good deal for those wanted pins to trade that aren't fakes.  Just wanted to share!
> http://cgi.ebay.com/DISNEY-PIN-LOT-...5|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:0|293:1|294:50


THanks for this reference!  I just ordered way too many pins.  I'll update to confirm I got what was described.  Thanks again!
Rachel


----------



## Danauk

I too have just ordered from this seller, I will also report when the pins arrive.


----------



## bgohre

I hate playing devils advocate here, but:

If the pins cost $7-$11 a piece, why are they selling them for less then $2? How did they get these pins?

We are so quick to jump all over the scrappers, why aren't we looking at why these "authenic" pins are going so cheap. I noticed many of the pins listed by hppydiztrader are duplicates, so my assumption is that they are not from their personal collection. 

Why/how did this person come to have 5 or 6 of the same pin still on the card????

*Please note: I am NOT saying they are stolen, I am simply pointing out that it seems a little hypocritical to crucify someone who may have some scrappers in their lot and yet glorify those that sell "legal" pins for the same price that may/may not be from their personal collection.*

If everybody is honest with themselves then we would have to admit that some of these "legit" pins are stolen. It just doens't make any sense to buy a pin for $7 and sell it for $2 on ebay. That's AIG business logic there.


----------



## thelionqueen

bgohre said:


> I hate playing devils advocate here, but:
> 
> If the pins cost $7-$11 a piece, why are they selling them for less then $2? How did they get these pins?
> 
> We are so quick to jump all over the scrappers, why aren't we looking at why these "authenic" pins are going so cheap. I noticed many of the pins listed by hppydiztrader are duplicates, so my assumption is that they are not from their personal collection.
> 
> Why/how did this person come to have 5 or 6 of the same pin still on the card????
> 
> *Please note: I am NOT saying they are stolen, I am simply pointing out that it seems a little hypocritical to crucify someone who may have some scrappers in their lot and yet glorify those that sell "legal" pins for the same price that may/may not be from their personal collection.*
> 
> If everybody is honest with themselves then we would have to admit that some of these "legit" pins are stolen. It just doens't make any sense to buy a pin for $7 and sell it for $2 on ebay. That's AIG business logic there.



I see your logic, but I can tell you a couple things you may not have thought of.  Number one, first and foremost, NONE of these pins are scrappers!!  They are all rack pins.  Number 2, in my collection I had (traded many of them) hundreds (literally) of duplicates and here's why.  I buy them in bulk when they go on sale.  I buy duplicates because I intend to trade them, so it really doesn't matter what they are, as long as they are authentic.

If I decided to sell my personal collection, I would literally have at LEAST 24 of a several pins.  I also keep the backs/cards on every pin I've ever bought so I would have the cards too.  Did I steal mine?  Absolutely NOT.  Did this person steal these?  I have no idea.  Could they be stolen?  YES.  Are they?  I don't know.  I do know that they are not fake/scrappers, and will not assume someone is a thief unless I am certain.  

That said, if I were strapped for cash, and could get $2.50 per pin, that would equal a lot of money for me if I needed it.  I easily have over 10,000 pins.  So I can totally see the logic of selling cheaply on ebay for quick cash.  I certainly would not expect ANYWHERE near the actual cost I paid for a rack pin; that's just not realistic.

I will continue to "bash" scrapper sellers because, truly, they are thieves and it is obvious they know exactly what they are doing and what damage it causes.  For this seller in particular, I cannot tell you the reason they are selling their pins and will NOT assume they are stolen.  I know they are authentic rack pins at a good price period.  I think you should be careful saying, as you put it" if we are honest with ourselves we would have to admit some of these are stolen".  This is a very damaging statement with no evidence to the fact.  I understand your intent, but the way it was worded indicates that this person stole them which is totally inappropriate IMHO.


----------



## bgohre

I was refering to all "legit" pins in general that are sold for under $2 a pin. Not this particular seller, I apologize if I did not make myself clear. 

I have no evidence that this or any other seller is selling stolen pins, nor do I have any evidenece that anybody is/isn't selling scrapper pins. Therefore, I would NEVER specifically target a specific person unless I have their pins in hand and I have cold hard facts. But lets be honest, I would bet that a good chunk of the truly "legit" pins that are being sold cheap are stolen, unless, it is somebody liquidating their collection for cash and even then, can you really just "trust" what somebody says on their ebay page? 

Many folks on here are saying you should ask where the seller got the pins to make sure they're not scrappers. Maybe we should also ask why they're willing to sell them and lose $5 a pin? How did they come by those pins that they're so willing to lose money. 

A am a little confused though, if you have pin cards and you sell a pin online and you put it on a card, that doesn't make it legit. You can still get a scrapper or counterfeit and put it on a card and then call it legit. So to me, having the pin cards really has nothing to due with the authenticity of the pin. If you traded a pin in the park...then decided to sell it online...put in on a pincard...it could still be a scrapper or counterfeit pin. I don't know if that's very clear. Let me try this. Let say I buy PIN A, then go to the park and see PIN A on a lanyard and trade for it. Now I'm home and I look at PIN A and say hey, the one I traded for doesn't look right, maybe I'll just put it on the pincard and sell it on ebay. Now a looks like a rack pin and is being sold on ebay with a pincard so it looks more legit. 

Please don't get me wrong, I hope Disney finds a way to get rid of the scrappers and I hope anybody that knowingly sells them gets put out of business. I just don't like all the figure pointing and then looking the other way when we think we find pins that are "legit".


----------



## pixiewings71

Well it's been my personal experience that rack pins are not scrapped.  Of course I could be wrong and every pin I've won from the past few sellers I've dealt with could be fake but I won't know until I get them.  I HAVE purchased from happydiz and sleepy in the past, I've been extremely satisfied with my purchases from them, I'm very much looking forward to getting my latest wins to confirm the legitimacy of them.  I would NEVER assume that anyone is selling fakes, but when I get them and I can tell they are then I will discuss it on this board.


----------



## bgohre

A quote from Pinpics:

"Every pin released by Disney has the potential of being a scrapper. Once again, no one can guarantee the authenticity of any Disney pin unless it was purchased directly from Disney. "


----------



## pixiewings71

bgohre said:


> A quote from Pinpics:
> 
> "Every pin released by Disney has the potential of being a scrapper. Once again, no one can guarantee the authenticity of any Disney pin unless it was purchased directly from Disney. "



That is the most basic notation ever.  Of course no one knows unless they have purchased the pins directly from Disney, kinda makes sense right.


----------



## thelionqueen

I think any pin could be made into a scrapper, however, the ones currently in circulation are not (at least the ones I've seen).  Currently, nearly all scrapper are cast lanyards.


----------



## 2littleprincesses

DaveStroem said:


> Since I have had such a bad experience with this seller, I have messaged several other pin sellers.
> 
> I sent this mention to bibbidi_bobbidi_boo_colectibles
> 
> "Where did you get the pins from. Are these scrappers or pins purchased from Disney. I am looking for trading stock, but will not tolerate counterfeit contraband. I am sorry if this sounds negative, I just got burned by another dealer selling fakes. "​I got a response from them first of:
> 
> _ "First of all what is a scrapper?"​_
> 
> I then responded with:
> _A scrapper is the pins that are sold to dealers from china that are not actually purchased from Disney. Many of these pins are overruns or 2nds. Dealers that sell these pins are committing criminal acts.
> 
> Where your pins purchased from Disney?_​
> I then noticed that they use the term "scrapper" in some of their other listings. So this seams to be a baiting type question.
> 
> _You are asking me what is a scrapper. In a different listing, you mention that it does not include and scrappers. So if you put that in some of your auctions, why would you ask me this. I am a serious bidder looking to get about 50 pins. I want real pins, not counterfeits or scrappers/2nds._​
> This morning I got a response from bibbidi_bobbidi_boo_colectibles:
> 
> _please don not waste my time._​
> So I guess you can use your own judgment as to whether or not this person is selling bogus pins or not.




I ordered from this seller earlier today before finding this thread.  I worry about the pins I will be getting.  I have sent her a message asking if they are authentic.  We will see what my response is...


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## pixiewings71

2littleprincesses said:


> I ordered from this seller earlier today before finding this thread.  I worry about the pins I will be getting.  I have sent her a message asking if they are authentic.  We will see what my response is...



Oh no, I hope you get good pins!  Please let us know what happens.


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## bgohre

From the sounds of their replies, I would say they're selling scrappers and they know it.


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## 2littleprincesses

She/he said "Yes they are real".  I will report when they arrive.


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## thelionqueen

I have to say that I am sorry people are finding out about the scrapper epidemic (kind of a strong word, but...) the hard way. But I am happy that people are becoming aware.  By having this thread and all the information on it, we are educating those who wouldn't have known, and that is GREAT!!

If we can even make a dent in these fraudulent sellers' business, that is awesome.  The more we can get on board, the more we can (hopefully) put an end to this.

Please report back if you have any questions about the pins you received, but I feel confident in saying that they are probably scrappers.  If you send them back, we have listed several other sellers on this thread who are "legit".  I have one more to add, and that is *"retiredreadingspecialist"*.  

I've had several conversations with this person and won 2 auctions.  I have not received the pins yet, but know that they are rack pins and not scrappers. 

I don't know how many pins he/she is selling, but I don't think there are too many.  I won 2 auctions and see 2 more listed.  The price is GREAT for the starting bid and even for the "buy it now". So if you're looking, I'd add this person to your favorites.

This is time consuming isn't it?  LOL, but it's worth it.  We have our trip coming up May 24, and went through our pin books to pull some traders.  It's SO hard to part with them, that I am looking to buy.  I got some off ebay from "hppydiztrader" and "retiredreadingspecialist" and think that should do us.  My son began counting my pins and stopped at 2,147 (only one of my 6 books).  One would think I should be able to find some to trade...


----------



## iheartdisney

bgohre said:


> I have no evidence that this or any other seller is selling stolen pins, nor do I have any evidenece that anybody is/isn't selling scrapper pins. Therefore, I would NEVER specifically target a specific person unless I have their pins in hand and I have cold hard facts. But lets be honest, I would bet that a good chunk of the truly "legit" pins that are being sold cheap are stolen, unless, it is somebody liquidating their collection for cash and even then, can you really just "trust" what somebody says on their ebay page?
> 
> 
> 
> Please don't get me wrong, I hope Disney finds a way to get rid of the scrappers and I hope anybody that knowingly sells them gets put out of business. I just don't like all the figure pointing and then looking the other way when we think we find pins that are "legit".



I have read this thread all the way to the beginning (not all in one sitting, or I would be blind!) And this post I agree the most with. I think knowingly putting counterfeit pins into circulation is wrong, but I do think the witchhunt that is going on in this thread is equally wrong. 
Not accusing, but just devil's advocate, who is to say that one of the "approved" ebay sellers is not a poster, trying to promote their own auctions?
I think that if you have first-hand knowledge as to the quality of pins sold by a seller, it should be shared. I don't think that we have the right to bash a seller based on speculation. 
I have a particular seller I have bought from over the last year or so, and am pretty sure they are sending me legitimate pins. They list (and ship) from the Orlando area, and the lots I have won are mixes of HM and rack pins. However, I pause to share the name of what I deem to be a good seller, because of the accusations which have been thrown around on this thread.


----------



## ariel53098

ariel53098 said:


> THanks for this reference!  I just ordered way too many pins.  I'll update to confirm I got what was described.  Thanks again!
> Rachel



I got my pins from hppydiztrader today.  They look legit.  They have the Mickey backs and WDW pricetags on the cards.  My only complaint is the package reeks of cigarette smoke.  I took the pins out of the bags and envelope and put them in a new bag.  Hopefully that will solve the smell issue.  I think it was mostly in the packaging.
Here are the pics:
This one is all of the pins:





This one is of the pins that had more than one layer to them:





These were labeled as first release:





These were the ones that have some moving feature:





Another picture of the moving pins:






I tested the weight against ones that I got on our cruise and they feel heavy like the cruise ones.  
I think they are legit, but I'm sure some of you guys are more knowledgable?
Rachel


----------



## tinkerbee

I have purchased from bizzybee1 and gyantzpod both sell "legit" pins. bizzybee1's pins are still on the cards and so are most of gyantzpod. All below the cost they are to buy in the parks.


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## zerog

I understand the issue that some of the serious traders have with the introduction of fakes into the system.  I'm not advocating poor ethics, but I wonder how many of the same traders downloaded songs or movies using  Napster-like software programs.  Millions of people were doing that a short while ago and it cost the music and film industry a ton of money.


----------



## junebugTN

zerog said:


> I'm not advocating poor ethics, but I wonder how many of the same traders downloaded songs or movies using  Napster-like software programs.  Millions of people were doing that a short while ago and it cost the music and film industry a ton of money.



Exactly.  So, why would anyone do that to Disney, a place we're all supposed to love so much?


----------



## thelionqueen

iheartdisney said:


> I have read this thread all the way to the beginning (not all in one sitting, or I would be blind!) And this post I agree the most with. I think knowingly putting counterfeit pins into circulation is wrong, but I do think the witchhunt that is going on in this thread is equally wrong.
> Not accusing, but just devil's advocate, who is to say that one of the "approved" ebay sellers is not a poster, trying to promote their own auctions?
> I think that if you have first-hand knowledge as to the quality of pins sold by a seller, it should be shared. I don't think that we have the right to bash a seller based on speculation.
> I have a particular seller I have bought from over the last year or so, and am pretty sure they are sending me legitimate pins. They list (and ship) from the Orlando area, and the lots I have won are mixes of HM and rack pins. However, I pause to share the name of what I deem to be a good seller, because of the accusations which have been thrown around on this thread.



I appreciate your comments, and actually reading the entire thread (no easy feat ).  However, I wanted to point out that the sellers listed here as "scrapper" sellers have been listed by those DISer's who (for the most part) have had direct dealings with these sellers.  The others listed have the "characterstics" of selling scrappers.  I re-read several of the posts and all of them indicate that they "appear" or "probably" are selling scrappers.  No one (that I saw) saw absolutely they are selling scrappers if they didn't have direct dealings with them.  So I think your description of this thread being a "witch hunt" is totally inappropriate (just my opinion).  Quite the contrary, there is a lot of valuable information and lessons learned being shared here which is the intent all along.

As far as some of the posters being ebay sellers trying to "boost" their own auctions, I could see how someone might think that.  However, if you look at the other postings by the majority of people on this thread, you can see their previous postings and get an idea of who they are.  As for me in particular, I've been a DIS member since 2005 with over 3,000 posts, and I can tell you that I'm not advocating anyone for any other reason than to share positive experiences with.

I'm very glad you read the thread and posted your comments, I thought they were well intentioned.  But I think some of the "message" that I'm trying to convey is getting lost.  The only thing I'm advocating here is to educate pin buyers as to what scrappers are, who is selling them, and who is not.  And trying to get those who are selling scrappers out of business in any way possible; including "bashing" them on this thread.


----------



## thelionqueen

ariel53098 said:


> I got my pins from hppydiztrader today.  They look legit.  They have the Mickey backs and WDW pricetags on the cards.  My only complaint is the package reeks of cigarette smoke.  I took the pins out of the bags and envelope and put them in a new bag.  Hopefully that will solve the smell issue.  I think it was mostly in the packaging.
> Here are the pics:
> This one is all of the pins:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This one is of the pins that had more than one layer to them:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These were labeled as first release:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> These were the ones that have some moving feature:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Another picture of the moving pins:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I tested the weight against ones that I got on our cruise and they feel heavy like the cruise ones.
> I think they are legit, but I'm sure some of you guys are more knowledgable?
> Rachel



These are all rack pins, great purchase!  I'm really sorry they smell of smoke..ICK!  I hope you tell the seller this and hopefully they can do something to alleviate the smell in the future.  I can also tell you that the "Mickey as Jack Skellington" pin was sold out everywhere when I went last November (luckily I got one for each of my family) and we just LOVE it!  There are no scrappers in this lot!


----------



## Sailing Queen

Been lurking a few weeks - now registered and this is first post   Have read all thread !!!  Am coming over in Aug and am going to get my son a lanyard and some pins - will stick to disney shops  Wanted him to trade with CMs - good for confidence, striking up conversation etc but have been put off a bit as read that some CMs have scrappers so, do you suggest just stick to buying from shops etc to collect and not to trade initially until we get a bit more clued up on which are authentic pins ?


----------



## Eeyore'sthebest

Sailing Queen said:


> Been lurking a few weeks - now registered and this is first post   Have read all thread !!!  Am coming over in Aug and am going to get my son a lanyard and some pins - will stick to disney shops  Wanted him to trade with CMs - good for confidence, striking up conversation etc but have been put off a bit as read that some CMs have scrappers so, do you suggest just stick to buying from shops etc to collect and not to trade initially until we get a bit more clued up on which are authentic pins ?



First of all 

Second - Go and enjoy.  Let your son trade with the CMs.  Don't worry if you gets a couple of scrappers in the mix.  If he is doing this for fun then it won't really matter.  And to be honest, its really hard to tell scrappers unless they are sitting next to each other.    And as I told all my friends going crazy over Beanie Babies many years ago, they are not going to pay for a college education.  Collect them if you enjoy them but not for investment possibilities.


----------



## pixiewings71

zerog said:


> I understand the issue that some of the serious traders have with the introduction of fakes into the system.  I'm not advocating poor ethics, but I wonder how many of the same traders downloaded songs or movies using  Napster-like software programs.  Millions of people were doing that a short while ago and it cost the music and film industry a ton of money.



I NEVER did this.....my ex husband did but I did not.  Just for the record.  

And I do not perceive this thread at all as a "witch-hunt". It is simply those of us who have purchased pins from eBayers letting others know our experiences.  
I agree with LionQueen on her points. 

To the PP who purchased from happydiztrader, the stuff I received from them also smelled of smoke, I simply let it air out in my garage and they were fine after.   Thanks for posting your photos as well. 

And I've purchased from gyantzpod many times and loved every purchase made thru them.  Very happy with their quality.  

Finally, I got my wins from gitanoman and I am extremely happy with them!! Very good quality and not a scrapper that I could tell in the bunch!


----------



## missj1975

thelionqueen said:


> I'm very glad you read the thread and posted your comments, I thought they were well intentioned.  But I think some of the "message" that I'm trying to convey is getting lost.  The only thing I'm advocating here is to educate pin buyers as to what scrappers are, who is selling them, and who is not.  And trying to get those who are selling scrappers out of business in any way possible; including "bashing" them on this thread.



Do you truly know what a scrapper pin is?  Scrappers aren't just pins that were rejected due to manufacturing flaws.  They are any Disney pin sold from the factories directly to consumers instead of being shipped to Disney.  They are basically just "extra" pins that the factory sells to other vendors besides Disney.

Why do I think this is a witchhunt?  Because you are ready to bash sellers on your "expert opinion."

Since you are such an expert, I am sure you know that rack pins can be scrappers.  Technically any Disney pin can be a scrapper. 

I have seen lists of pins that have been sold to the secondary market and they include the Mickey as Jack, Mickey with the Coffee Cup, the Twighlight Terror of Terror Lenticular, the Lightening McQueen, the Stormtrooper eating a Mickey Bar, The Dragon Mickey Icon, the Wizards of Waverly, the British Flag, and the Thank Goodness it is Friday.  The Mickey as Jack and the Mickey with Coffee Cup were stamped First Release but technically they would still be considered "scrappers" since they were sold from the factory and not from Disney.  

All these pins you have labeled in another post as "non-scrappers."  My point is that it is just your opinion because they could very well be scrappers.  You don't know because you aren't the seller and you don't have the pins in hand to do a side by side comparison.

Also pins on black cards doesn't mean they aren't scrappers either. Guess what, the factories sell the cards to other people besides Disney too.

Ariel53098 could have very well bought legitimate pins but they also could be scrappers.  The fact of the matter is no one can really prove whether they are legit or not unless the person bought them directly from Disney and has a receipt to prove it.  So before you start labeling sellers as "scrapper sellers" or "legit sellers", just remember it is just your opinion.  Remember that when you are "bashing" someone with your "expert" opinion.


----------



## pixiewings71

missj, would you mind sharing your list here?  Or telling us where you've seen it?  You are correct of course, the only way to ensure the legitimacy of your pins is to purchase them from Disney directly.  But people do clear out collections, buy collections to sell on eBay etc etc.  This is not a witch hunt, this is simply some fellow collectors giving their opinion on the pins they have received from eBay, at least for the most part it is.


----------



## zuly

missj1975 said:


> Do you truly know what a scrapper pin is?  Scrappers aren't just pins that were rejected due to manufacturing flaws.  They are any Disney pin sold from the factories directly to consumers instead of being shipped to Disney.  They are basically just "extra" pins that the factory sells to other vendors besides Disney.
> 
> Why do I think this is a witchhunt?  Because you are ready to bash sellers on your "expert opinion."
> 
> Since you are such an expert, I am sure you know that rack pins can be scrappers.  Technically any Disney pin can be a scrapper.
> 
> I have seen lists of pins that have been sold to the secondary market and they include the Mickey as Jack, Mickey with the Coffee Cup, the Twighlight Terror of Terror Lenticular, the Lightening McQueen, the Stormtrooper eating a Mickey Bar, The Dragon Mickey Icon, the Wizards of Waverly, the British Flag, and the Thank Goodness it is Friday.  The Mickey as Jack and the Mickey with Coffee Cup were stamped First Release but technically they would still be considered "scrappers" since they were sold from the factory and not from Disney.
> 
> All these pins you have labeled in another post as "non-scrappers."  My point is that it is just your opinion because they could very well be scrappers.  You don't know because you aren't the seller and you don't have the pins in hand to do a side by side comparison.
> 
> Also pins on black cards doesn't mean they aren't scrappers either. Guess what, the factories sell the cards to other people besides Disney too.
> 
> Ariel53098 could have very well bought legitimate pins but they also could be scrappers.  The fact of the matter is no one can really prove whether they are legit or not unless the person bought them directly from Disney and has a receipt to prove it.  So before you start labeling sellers as "scrapper sellers" or "legit sellers", just remember it is just your opinion.  Remember that when you are "bashing" someone with your "expert" opinion.


----------



## thelionqueen

missj1975 said:


> Do you truly know what a scrapper pin is?  Scrappers aren't just pins that were rejected due to manufacturing flaws.  They are any Disney pin sold from the factories directly to consumers instead of being shipped to Disney.  They are basically just "extra" pins that the factory sells to other vendors besides Disney.
> 
> Why do I think this is a witchhunt?  Because you are ready to bash sellers on your "expert opinion."
> 
> Since you are such an expert, I am sure you know that rack pins can be scrappers.  Technically any Disney pin can be a scrapper.
> 
> I have seen lists of pins that have been sold to the secondary market and they include the Mickey as Jack, Mickey with the Coffee Cup, the Twighlight Terror of Terror Lenticular, the Lightening McQueen, the Stormtrooper eating a Mickey Bar, The Dragon Mickey Icon, the Wizards of Waverly, the British Flag, and the Thank Goodness it is Friday.  The Mickey as Jack and the Mickey with Coffee Cup were stamped First Release but technically they would still be considered "scrappers" since they were sold from the factory and not from Disney.
> 
> All these pins you have labeled in another post as "non-scrappers."  My point is that it is just your opinion because they could very well be scrappers.  You don't know because you aren't the seller and you don't have the pins in hand to do a side by side comparison.
> 
> Also pins on black cards doesn't mean they aren't scrappers either. Guess what, the factories sell the cards to other people besides Disney too.
> 
> Ariel53098 could have very well bought legitimate pins but they also could be scrappers.  The fact of the matter is no one can really prove whether they are legit or not unless the person bought them directly from Disney and has a receipt to prove it.  So before you start labeling sellers as "scrapper sellers" or "legit sellers", just remember it is just your opinion.  Remember that when you are "bashing" someone with your "expert" opinion.




It looks like you didn't take the time to read this thread; can't say as I blame you, but it would have helped with your reply.  I have stated, and stand by my knowledge of pin trading.  I have "thrown around" my "expert opinion" and stand by my postings as such.  However, the reason I can tell you didn't read (or if you did possibly misunderstood) is your last statement.

You asked if I actually know what a scrapper is.  I can tell you what I've been told by Disney Legal which is different than you posted.  I don't know which is true, but I will lean towards the company response.  I was told, in person, on the phone by a Disney legal rep, that "scrappers" are pins that are produced with substandard materials, from the same molds as authentic Disney pins.  Disney "orders" a specific amount of pins at a specific price point.  Once that quota is met, the manufacturers create pins above the amount Disney authorized with the remaining materials left from the original order.  Thus making the quality of the pins far below the Disney standard.  This explains the difference in weight, color and quality.  So, do I know this for fact?  No, just what I've been told, but considering the source I would answer your question as yes, I do know what a scrapper is.

You stated this is a "witch hunt" because I'm bashing sellers on my expert opinion.  Yes I have stated my opinion over and over.  But I thought I took careful consideration to post that it is my opinion when I hadn't had actual dealings with sellers (though others on this thread have).  That said, I will again, for the record post this.  I have PERSONALLY had ACTUAL transactions with over 11 sellers on ebay.  I have PERSONALLY received pins from all of these sellers.  Of these 11 DIFFERENT sellers, I have only SPECIFICALLY commented on 5 (although only 3 are "legit" sellers).  I HAVE dealt directly with Disney on all of these "scrapper sellers".  

You stated that "I'm such an expert" I should know that rack pins can be scrappers.  This indicates again that you did not read all the posts on this thread (again, not blaming you for not reading them all, there is a lot).  I have posted several times that the majority of the time rack pins are not scrappers.  I did post specifically that I hadn't seen any rack pins as scrappers to date, that the majority of pins that are scrappers are cast lanyards.  I don't believe I ever posted that no rack pins could ever be scrappers, I posted that in my opinion, rack pins are generally safe, and for the most part, cast lanyards are scrappers.  I don't think I ever specifically claimed that rack pins can never be scrappers (again, not saying for absolute certain, just my thought).


Also, no one has EVER stated on this thread, that because they have backs they are legit.  What has been mentioned is that, by having the backs, buyers (and those on this thread) feel more comfortable bidding on them when they have the backs and are not in baggies.  
It could be very easy to put scrappers on the black backs, but for the most part.  Those scrapper sellers selling thousands of pins a day don't have the backs or the time (or desire) to put them on the backs (again my opinion-not stating fact).  

While I enjoy and respect reading all opinions and posts, I think before you post on a subject, it would carry more credibility if you take the time to read ALL the posts.  From the comments of this post it appears that you took a comment made here or there and posted a broad and unsubstantiated response. Again, my opinion, not stating fact.


I am going to attempt, once again,to post my intent

This thread is an attempt to educate those who don't know about scrapped pins, the information they can use to make their own decisions.  Buy from whomever they feel informed and comfortable with.  To "bash" those ebay sellers who are clearly (and confirmed) as selling scrappers.  And to provide a resource for those sellers who are "legit" (again confirmed by actual transactions).  To provide my knowledge, experience, and opinion regarding pin trading for those who are new to the hobby.  

I am NOT advocating any ebay seller, I am NOT trying to ruin anyone's reputation that hasn't earned it by their actions.  I am NOT presenting myself as the "King (or Queen) Pin trading master of the universe.  Again, for those who do not read all the posts, and attempt to label someone unfairly, maybe reading one's own advice would be step one. Before "bashing" someone who posts comments on this thread, being completely familiar with what has and has not been stated would be appropriate.  

I AM posting my experience, referrals and opinion to anyone who asks.  I AM working diligently to do whatever I can to alert anyone and everyone to those ebay sellers that knowingly sell scrappers with no regard for anyone.  And I AM proud of what I'm doing, what I've done, and will continue to stand by everything I've posted on this thread and every other post on the DIS.


----------



## Tenuviel

I am glad to find this thread, I think anything that can make us more educated and savvy shoppers is a good thing! I must admit, I have always resisted the pin trading because it didn't completely make sense to me. I mean if you are buying pins to start out with- for me I would be buying ones that I liked and wouldn't want to trade....but the ebay option made it make sense to me, to buy a lot of pins and trade ones you didn't care about, but I didn't know about scrappers at the time. I have awhile to decide what I want to do before the next trip....

Thanks for all the info! I will keep reading!


----------



## pixiewings71

Tenuviel said:


> I am glad to find this thread, I think anything that can make us more educated and savvy shoppers is a good thing! I must admit, I have always resisted the pin trading because it didn't completely make sense to me. I mean if you are buying pins to start out with- for me I would be buying ones that I liked and wouldn't want to trade....but the ebay option made it make sense to me, to buy a lot of pins and trade ones you didn't care about, but I didn't know about scrappers at the time. I have awhile to decide what I want to do before the next trip....
> 
> Thanks for all the info! I will keep reading!



Some of the pins out there can't be purchased.  Hidden Mickey lanyard pins are only available thru trading.  They did sell them for a while, in a "mystery" pouch but I didn't see any the last few times I was at the Land.  That's why we trade.


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## Tenuviel

pixiewings71 said:


> Some of the pins out there can't be purchased.  Hidden Mickey lanyard pins are only available thru trading.  They did sell them for a while, in a "mystery" pouch but I didn't see any the last few times I was at the Land.  That's why we trade.



I think I tend to get attached to things too easy  I am worried I won't be willing to part with any! I would like to try it though- I think I would enjoy it!


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## DaveStroem

* !!!!WARNING!!!! *

Pin trading is very addictive. I thought this would just be something that my girls would do. But the entire family got into it and it got a little competitive too. My DDs would have to take turns to be the first to trade with a CM.


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## Tenuviel

DaveStroem said:


> * !!!!WARNING!!!! *
> 
> Pin trading is very addictive. I thought this would just be something that my girls would do. But the entire family got into it and it got a little competitive too. My DDs would have to take turns to be the first to trade with a CM.





I will consider myself warned!


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## pixiewings71

It is addictive and competitive.  We had to make a "family rule" that we would get 1 set for the family first and then after that we could decide what of the kids wanted a set for themselves. LOL  But it's fun and it's worth it, brings us together as a family and that's what counts for us.


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## Tammylynn

I opened up my grab bag e-bay pins tonight (from a seller given the thumbs up in this thread) and checked them against pinpics.com.  

Then, I asked bf to check a few that I'd set aside (both suspect pins and others for comparision).  Between what he and I picked out by feel and by strange flaws (the face of one of them is just a blotch of color with a tiny bit of metal for eyes), there are 8 out of 24 that I'm not sure about.  

Should I contact the seller to seek resolution (refund of 1/3 of what I've paid, or swap out) or just chock it up to a learning experience and keep the pins at home?  I definately won't be trading the suspicious ones at the park.

I got great and positive service from the seller but 1/3 scrappers in a pin lot seems high.

Maybe ANY kind of grab bag just opens you up to this?

I also bought one of the lots from retiredreadingspecialist and most of them look great.  There are none that stand out like in the other group I got.


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## pixiewings71

I think with lots you really just have to chance it.  I've been buying individual pins for trading but then you run into the whole extra shipping per pin which makes it more costly.  What you do from here is really up to you TammyLynn, if you decide to contact the seller I hope you get good resolution.  I've seen smaller lots from happydiz and sleepy that seemed good but I haven't bought any lots from them so I just don't know......


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## thelionqueen

Yes, pin trading is BIG TIME addictive and can become very expensive!  I literally have to plan our pin buying budget up to a year in advance.  Buying pins for 4 ACTIVE traders/collectors (my DH 7 2 DS's) is NOT cheap.  But it is a big part of our Disney experience, and worth every penny IMHO 

We also have "family rules" when it comes to pin trading.  Whoever sees a lanyard first has first "dibs" (we used to all run over to be first in line..sigh).  We also keep an eye out for whatever someone else is looking for.  That way at the end of the night, if we got something for someone else, we would trade it.  Also at the end of the night, we all get out our lanyards and books and review the treasures we got during the day. We organize and put away, and get the traders out for the next day.  We love pin trading!  We budget $300-$500 per trip for pins; we just can't help it.

BTW, we also use cork boards in our books, WONDERFUL!!!


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## SorcererDonald16

I've been following this thread with interest for awhile now. I had decided to try a little pin trading on my May trip, so I came to this board looking for tips. I had no idea there was any such thing as a scrapper, nor that that's a rampant pin trading problem now. Oy.

I'm planning on buying a few pins at one of the Disney Outlet stores outside of WDW so I can save some money that way. So at least I don't have to worry about the pins I'm trading away being scrappers. 

lion, or anyone else, can you give me some tips on how to avoid these scrappers and other fake pins? I have such limited pin knowledge that I have no way of distinguishing a scrapper from a real pin. I've only ever bought two pins off of Ebay, one still on the card, and one gift with purchase pin still in the little plastic wrap. Otherwise, I've bought all of my pins in WDW. I saw things to look for like the coloring on the scrapper Donald Music Hidden Mickey pin is darker than the colors on the real pin, but I don't have specific pins in mind to trade for beyond that one. Now I'm worried I'll trade a real pin, which I paid for, for junk.


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## We_love_WDW

wow..I just ordered 3 pins from ebay -a 2007 mickey in front of the castle and 2 2008 Halloween 3d pumpkin ones.  Now after reading this thread I am worried they might be scrappers..I had no idea.  Well I guess I will wait and see.


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## thelionqueen

Hey Donald, welcome to the wonderful, addictive and fabulous world of Disney Pin Trading!!  BTW, my husband LIVES for Donald Duck (just had to tell you that)!
Unfortunately, scrappers are rampant in WDW & DL and there are many "tells" to look for, but honestly, they are VERY hard to detect.  The pins are made in the same molds as authentic Disney pins, but much less quality and weight.  I can offer you the most common things to look for, but ultimately, it will have to be found out "in person". What I mean is this.  Do your pin trading as you normally would.  Trade for pins that interest you.  Then, at the end of the day, look at the pins and compare them (color, weight and overall quality) to authentic Disney pins.  I can almost assure you, if you get a scrapper and compare it to a non-scrapper you will be able to detect them easier in your future tradings.
First thing is that MOST (not all) scrappers are "cast lanyards" i.e. hidden mickey pins.  You can tell these pins by a very small mickey head somewhere on the front and it will say "cast lanyard" on the back.  I have yet to find a "rack pin" (pins that can be bought @ Disney pin traders and other places) that is a scrapper although I've read that some have seen rack pins made as scrappers (that has not been my experience).

Secondly educate yourself here on the DIS as to who on ebay sells scrappers (listed here and other threads) then look at the pictures of the pins they are selling to get an idea of ones to stay away from. I can tell you personally the ones I've seen "scrapped" the most are:
Tinkerbell teardrops
Mickey footprints
Villain snowglobes
Fastpasses
etc...there are MANY MANY more, these are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head (rearead this thread for more info)

Most of all, HAVE FUN!!  Don't let the worry of getting a scrapper ruin the pin trading experience for you.  It is so wonderful so enjoy it.  Just educate yourself as best as possible then report back here as to how you did.  If I can answer any questions for you, feel free to drop me an IM.


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## jessrose18

starting to research pin lots for our trip.  Are there any sellers on ebay that are good that are selling these cl bags/assorted bags for 1.35-1.50 a pin??????


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## pixiewings71

jessrose18 said:


> starting to research pin lots for our trip.  Are there any sellers on ebay that are good that are selling these cl bags/assorted bags for 1.35-1.50 a pin??????



In my experiences generally not.  I have received some lots that were very cheap and had good pins but there was at least one scrapper in the lot, maybe 2.  It's hard to say really.  Check with Sleepy and see what they have listed, sometimes they have small lots up for auction, they usually go for a bit over $2 a pin tho.


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## PinGirl

Thanks to everyone who has posted here! 

I wanted to share what my DH and I do when we trade:
1) we try check this board, dizpins, disney shopping, and official disney pin trading to see what is available while we are planning to be at the parks.
2) we talk to the cast members and ask them what's new what to watch for. 
3) We always walk the store's before we trade so we have an idea of what is currently in the parks we are in - as we live in CA but have annual passes to WDW - go figure! 

For our upcoming Trip in a few weeks we have gone to the CA outlets and purchased pins to take with us. So if you are trading in 2 weeks at WDW and you see a lot of the same pins from CA that are: Rabbit pirates, pin on pin pirates, mickey wearing donalds hat, (just to mention a few) and we got some Villan LE's from disney shopping last christmas that are very cheap looking but legit - that's us trading those. Some pins we got 4 or 5 of some 10depending on what they had. Cost wise most started at $3-$6.95. 

I am just mentioning this as there will be a lot of Disneyland pins floating around and Disney shopping that are legit and will be on cast members Lanyards.

We have been traders since it first started but some of the scrappers are really good and it has taken us having 2 pins side by side to tell the difference.

Our advice is trade for pins you like and have fun. We know we have scrappers in our collection and if we liked the pin have just kept them. If we trade for something weird in the park we find a cast member and say we think this is not good can we have any other pin in trade. We also give lots of pins away to kids for free to make their day.

We have decided to be aware of the scrappers but still enjoy the hobby. we stilllove the interaction with people and the hobby. We refuse to let the bad people ruin it for us.

Our advice is educate yourself as much as possible have fun and be as aware as you can be.

Ultimately have fun as that's what it's all about.


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## hbkfan637

I just got back from Disneyland tonight and even though I'm exhausted, I read through the whole thread because I caught the pin trading bug.  I had a question about the comments for "hidden mickey" pins.. it was mentioned on this thread that they weren't sold in stores.. I'm confused about this comment because I bought two "mystery hidden mickey" (that's what the CM called it and she said this month was Peter Pan theme) packets at the park last weekend. It was $10 for each packet (each packet comes with two). Are these different from the "hidden mickeys" you guys are talking about? 

I was hoping to buy some pins on eBay because I wanted to get some Monsters Inc pins (I couldn't find any at the park). Based on what I read, if I buy them from a seller who's selling them individually I should be good right? 

Also, I just wanted to say that finding this thread has given me mixed feelings. I'm a little discouraged about pin trading because I'm scared to get fakes but I'm also grateful for all the information so I know what to lookout for! I think I'm going to keep the pins I buy from Disney and pins I receive from trades separate though.


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## pixiewings71

hbkfan637 said:


> I just got back from Disneyland tonight and even though I'm exhausted, I read through the whole thread because I caught the pin trading bug.  I had a question about the comments for "hidden mickey" pins.. it was mentioned on this thread that they weren't sold in stores.. I'm confused about this comment because I bought two "mystery hidden mickey" (that's what the CM called it and she said this month was Peter Pan theme) packets at the park last weekend. It was $10 for each packet (each packet comes with two). Are these different from the "hidden mickeys" you guys are talking about?
> 
> I was hoping to buy some pins on eBay because I wanted to get some Monsters Inc pins (I couldn't find any at the park). Based on what I read, if I buy them from a seller who's selling them individually I should be good right?
> 
> Also, I just wanted to say that finding this thread has given me mixed feelings. I'm a little discouraged about pin trading because I'm scared to get fakes but I'm also grateful for all the information so I know what to lookout for! I think I'm going to keep the pins I buy from Disney and pins I receive from trades separate though.



You can buy Hidden Mickey pin the mystery pouches now, but they change what you're getting as they change the months at DL.  What I mean is, DL releases a new HM pin set every month so after the month is over they will package a certain # for purchase in the mystery pouches.  Once they are gone they are gone and you cannot purchase them again, also the older the set the more unlikely it is you will ever find them in a mystery pouch.  

Your chances of getting good pins are higher if you find a seller with singles up but that won't guarantee it, your only way to ensure the authenticity is to purchase them yourself from Disney stores or online at Disney Shopping.  Check Disney Shopping for pins, I got some yesterday that I really like!! And they are usually very very limited editions. 

The point of this thread is not to discourage but to educate.    I know how you feel, I felt the same way when I learned about scrappers but I still trade.  I just always keep in my mind the knowledge that I might get a scrapper when trading and try not to let it bother me.


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## hbkfan637

Thanks for the info pixiewings71.  I just recently became a big fan of pins and everything Disney and have a lot to learn still! The more I read and learn, the more confused I get.


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## pixiewings71

Hang in there hbk, it gets easier as you figure things out.  I got very discouraged early on and almost quit but I'm glad we didn't.


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## poohaddict

Well after reading this thread I went onto pinpics.com and found out that a lot I bought from EBAY were mostly scrappers.  I had no idea that there are FAKE pins.  I traded most of them will we were at the World the beggining of May.  We did keep a few of them and I compared the pins I know I bought from Disney and the ones from ebay.  The weight was the big difference.  ALso some of them were rusted looking that should have been my 1st clue something was wrong.  I will defintley be more careful from now on.


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## thelionqueen

We are currently in the midst of our Summer trip and I wanted to report on my pin trading observations.

On a positive note, I have seen VERY few scrappers on CM's lanyards.  Honestly, our last trip there were several on every lanyard.  This trip I can count on 2 hands the ones I've noticed.  

Unfortunately, they are being replaced with starter set pins, and there are a bunch of them!  However, I was pleasantly surprised with the lack of scrappers and wanted to let you all know what I saw.

Apparently CM's are not accepting and/or taking the scrappers out of circulation and noticeably so.  I'm hopeful some new rules are in place to take the scrappers out of the mix


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## CarolinaGirlTiss

Okay first off I am new to disboards. Have been reading for a long time but just made my first post earlier this afternoon.

My DH and I went to Disney World in April on my spring break. I took a few pins that I had from a previous trip (this was DH's first trip) with me just to wear. I wanted to get some pins from ebay before we went to trade but it just didn't work out. In fact a good portion of the time I was there I was in contact the seller bibiddi_bobiddi_boo (not sure if this is the correct spelling) trying to get some delivered to my hotel. Fortunately this did not work for me. So everything I traded was something I actually bought from DW. 

Now my observation. DH is a huge Goofy fan and we were looking for a Goofy pin to trade for. We found one on a CM lanyard and asked him to trade. He told us unfortunately he couldn't trade that one, I wouldn't want it anyway because it was not a real Disney pin. He then explained to me why. I don't remember his explanation exactly except he said something about the back of it not having a date and disney ears (I was really tired). So that castmember at least knew a fake from a real one and didn't pass it on.

The good now the bad that comes with my question. I think I traded with a different CM for a fake (scrapper). I haven't been to any website to verify this but just from what I have read on the boards I think it might not be real. First my question, Do any Disney pins have black backs? This one does and none of my others do. This one is also trimmed in black where all the others are trimmed in gold. The back looks legit (except for the fact that it is black and all the others are gold) but I just don't know. It is a Tigger pin. The weight seems to be comparable with the other pins I have. What do ya'll think? 

We are going back in July (with the kids this time, last time was just for us) and I want to order some legit trading pins from ebay or somewhere for my teenagers and I to trade so I have been writing down these names of good sellers and will check them out this weekend when I have more time. 

Thanks for this thread, it has really helped me out!


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## thelionqueen

CarolinaGirlTiss said:


> First my question, Do any Disney pins have black backs? This one does and none of my others do. This one is also trimmed in black where all the others are trimmed in gold. The back looks legit (except for the fact that it is black and all the others are gold) but I just don't know. It is a Tigger pin. The weight seems to be comparable with the other pins I have. What do ya'll think?
> 
> We are going back in July (with the kids this time, last time was just for us) and I want to order some legit trading pins from ebay or somewhere for my teenagers and I to trade so I have been writing down these names of good sellers and will check them out this weekend when I have more time.
> 
> Thanks for this thread, it has really helped me out!



On my trip this month, I noticed a difference in Disney pins.  MANY (if not all) of them had the "mickey head" stamped back.  I know they are authentic because I bought them @ Epcot & other locations and all of the 2009 pins had this stamping I've never seen before.  And YES I did receive a pin with a "black" stamped back that was bought @ Disney therefore legit.

My assumption (not fact of course) is that they started doing this with the 2009 pins because of all the problems with scrappers (just speculation).  I noticed it right away on my first purchase.  NOW, keep in mind, I only noticed this on 2009 pins. There are several "open edition" pins from 2008 (and sometimes earlier) that do NOT have this stamping and ARE legit.  

Without seeing your pin, I would guess that it is authentic.  The weight is a big indicator, and if you think it feels comparable to other pins, I would say it's OK.  As long as you like it, enjoy it!


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## jackskellingtonsgirl

CarolinaGirlTiss - I bought TONS of pins from the Disney Store last year before they closed and many of those pins have black backs as opposed to gold or silver.  There are many variations in authentic pins.  Makes it nearly impossible to sort out the fakes!


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## mum24grlz

thelionqueen said:


> OK, strictly based on the annoying music alone I would not buy from her!
> Seriously though, I did look at the auction and all others she is listing and you can be sure they are fake.  Although the picture she shows on ALL listings (HUGE red flag) is small and hard to see, the ones I could make out were not fake.  Until you get the lot and see what you get, you can't be sure.  But if you were to ask me my "professional" opinion prior to getting them, my thought would be yes, they are fakes.  And mostly for the main reasons posted on this thread as well as pinpics, etc.  Large lots of pins, non-descript and cheap = fake.
> Once you receive them, let us know what you got and we will be able to tell you for sure.  I'm SO SORRY people who didn't know about scrappers are finding out the hard way.
> There used to be a day (not too long ago actually-maybe a little over a year is all) that you could trade pins without a care in the world and that is how it is MEANT to be.  I will do my part to bring that day back, and it sounds like there are many (from the posts on this thread alone) just like me.
> That said, if you buy your pins from Disney and educate yourself (like this thread) pin trading can be extremely enjoyable.
> 
> I just don't see how some people can knowingly buy fake pins and justify trading them knowing the harm it does to everyone and pin trading in general.  I KNOW it is NOT cheap to pin trade (the right and intended way) and I KNOW kids likely don't care what they have to trade or what they get (they just like the act of the trade) I get all that.  So you turn a blind eye, or claim "I didn't know" or my kids don't care and go on with your trip without a care.  I DO NOT get that.  I consider myself a person of high morals and esteem and teach my children by example.  What would I be telling my kids by buying fake pins and trading them to others looking for the same joy?  Simple, I wouldn't.  What I am teaching my kids is that doing the right thing is NOT easy, it takes time, effort and diligence.  Maybe one day, when fakes are not traded I can look at them and say, "look what I helped do" and that is worth a heck of a lot more than $2 a pin.
> 
> At the end of the day, you are in Walt's Kingdom and dream and how many people really ask themselves.."What would Walt do"



Thank you and others for fighting the fakes. I had no idea that there were fake pins. My mother who is now a retired CM has tons and tons of pins that she purchased when pin trading first debuted. I would HATE to see her trade her legit pins and get trash.

I sell on ebay and I am a firm believer in not buying anything fake or counterfeit - be it Coach purses or Disney pins. Yes its cheaper to buy fakes but seriously its illegal to purchase or sell counterfeits! It undermines the integrity of the industry and is just plain WRONG! (yes i feel quite strongly about this)

Again my thanks to you and I will start to spread the word to my friends and associates that there are fake pins out there. 

I also urge those who have purchased fake pins on ebay - even if you do return for refunds - to LEAVE APPROPRIATE FEEDBACK!!  That's why ebay has the feedback system - to advise other potential buyers about the sellers product and practices.  Sellers cannot neg you back anymore - its totally a buyers market -so i encourage you to leave appropriate feedback - even if you do get a refund


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## jackskellingtonsgirl

mum24grlz said:


> Thank you and others for fighting the fakes. I had no idea that there were fake pins. My mother who is now a retired CM has tons and tons of pins that she purchased when pin trading first debuted. I would HATE to see her trade her legit pins and get trash.
> 
> I sell on ebay and I am a firm believer in not buying anything fake or counterfeit - be it Coach purses or Disney pins. Yes its cheaper to buy fakes but seriously its illegal to purchase or sell counterfeits! It undermines the integrity of the industry and is just plain WRONG! (yes i feel quite strongly about this)
> 
> Again my thanks to you and I will start to spread the word to my friends and associates that there are fake pins out there.
> 
> I also urge those who have purchased fake pins on ebay - even if you do return for refunds - to LEAVE APPROPRIATE FEEDBACK!!  That's why ebay has the feedback system - to advise other potential buyers about the sellers product and practices.  Sellers cannot neg you back anymore - its totally a buyers market -so i encourage you to leave appropriate feedback - even if you do get a refund



The other thing about feedback is this:
People who do not KNOW anything about fake pins will post positive feedback for sellers with counterfeits.  I know I was posting positive feedback for people before I knew about fakes, scrappers, counterfeits, etc.  If I got my pins in a timely fashion I would post positive feedback.  After I realized I bought a BUNCH of fakes there was no way to go back and edit the feedback.  We do not purchase on eBay now.  DO NOT rely on positive feedback as an indicator that someone is selling genuine pins!!!


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## MountNittany

I just purchased a lot of 40 pins on ebay for 1.15 each. I am worried that they may be scrappers. Is there any way to check for scrappers besides looking up the pins on Pin Pics and looking for bad coloring/extra metal in the pins? The seller had 99.9% positive feedback also, so I felt confident buying from them.


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## thelionqueen

MountNittany said:


> I just purchased a lot of 40 pins on ebay for 1.15 each. I am worried that they may be scrappers. Is there any way to check for scrappers besides looking up the pins on Pin Pics and looking for bad coloring/extra metal in the pins? The seller had 99.9% positive feedback also, so I felt confident buying from them.


Without seeing them I cannot say 100% for sure that they are fakes, but, knowing ebay and the cost of scrappers, and more (listed on this thread) I would say that I am 99.99999% sure they are scrappers.

Bottom line is this, if it seems too good to be true, it probably is. Why would someone buy a pin for $7-$18 EACH and then turn around and sell a "lot" of them for $1+ each?  

Even if the seller has positive feedback, that means absolutely nothing.  Look at the sellers other auctions; are they selling many lots of pins with the same description for around the same price?  Are many of them "cast lanyard" or hidden mickey pins?

Ask yourself this..how did one person manage to buy SOOOO many pins and sell them for so cheap?   There is really only one answer, they are scrappers.  There are MANY ebay sellers listed on this thread that sell scrappers.  If you list who you bought them from, one of us can tell you if they are fake.

I can tell you right now, even without seeing them, I would bet my left arm and leg they are fake


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## MountNittany

thelionqueen said:


> If you list who you bought them from, one of us can tell you if they are fake.



I bought them from bibbidi_bobbidi_boo_colectibles.


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## thelionqueen

MountNittany said:


> I bought them from bibbidi_bobbidi_boo_colectibles.



This seller has been mentioned many times on this thread, and many different DIS'ers have had dealings with her.  All of the replies and those who received pins from this person reported receiving scrappers.  There were some who had one or two "authentic" pins in their lot, but approx 95% were scrappers.

In fact, one person on this thread attempted to question the seller regarding the authenticity and this seller replied very rudely and other nasty things happened. 

I went back and looked at her auctions again, looked at feedback (since some posters said they left it) and can confidently state that you bought scrappers.  This person really is a piece of work.  I looked at the negative comments, all indicating fake pins, and she tries to ruin their credibility by posting replies.  I also had to laugh out loud when reading the descriptions indicating that she doesn't sell scrappers because hers are not in a little plastic bag.  I'm fairly certain this seller is reading this and/or other threads on the DIS to post this information on his/her listings.

Basically, you get what you pay for; it's true in all areas of life and is true in this case.  I would love to see you inquire about the authenticity of the pins with the seller and see the response.  It's up to you to decide how you handle the situation from here.  But I would urge you to "do the right thing" and not trade them @ Disney. As stated in this thread many, many times, it hurts everyone and the entire practice of pin trading is diminished.  

Thanks for taking the time to ask questions!


----------



## CarolinaGirlTiss

I think I have found a good seller on ebay but time will tell when I get my pins. This person does not sell in lots (like buying them for 1.35 a piece). I had to bid and win his auctions for individual pins. Some I won for as little as 1.27 some I had to bid up to $4. I am hoping these pins are legit, as I said, time will tell. The sellers ebay ID is thewill. Some of the pins came on the Disney tag still (of course I also learned you can buy those on ebay so that doesn't really mean anything). If I am not pleased with the lot and feel they aren't legit I will ask for a refund and not trade them. Can you look at his items and tell me what you think?


----------



## dominicsplace

I just wanted to say I have been reading through this thread and have learned quite a bit about Disney pins. 

I was not really aware of the whole eBay counterfeit issue until just a couple days ago while reading a post on the Disney Tips board. 

Anyway it seems that there a few folks in particular who strive to fight the fight on this issue, notably thelionqueen, jackskellingtonsgirl and pixiewings71 and I just wanted to say THANKS to them and all the other folks who contribute.  

My DS 8 has been collecting them for the past couple years. We have bought them either at the parks or at the Disney store and fortunately he will rarely trade them, maybe 1 or 2 pins have been traded for. I wouldn't care so much if he traded one pin for another of "lesser" value (ie a starter pin) but I would be ticked if I got a fake pin as a result of someone knowingly purchasing this crp and then trading them for real ones. 

So enough of my mini rant and THANKS to you folks who have been out there sticking up for the rest of us.


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## MountNittany

thelionqueen said:


> This seller has been mentioned many times on this thread, and many different DIS'ers have had dealings with her.  All of the replies and those who received pins from this person reported receiving scrappers.  There were some who had one or two "authentic" pins in their lot, but approx 95% were scrappers.
> 
> In fact, one person on this thread attempted to question the seller regarding the authenticity and this seller replied very rudely and other nasty things happened.
> 
> I went back and looked at her auctions again, looked at feedback (since some posters said they left it) and can confidently state that you bought scrappers.  This person really is a piece of work.  I looked at the negative comments, all indicating fake pins, and she tries to ruin their credibility by posting replies.  I also had to laugh out loud when reading the descriptions indicating that she doesn't sell scrappers because hers are not in a little plastic bag.  I'm fairly certain this seller is reading this and/or other threads on the DIS to post this information on his/her listings.
> 
> Basically, you get what you pay for; it's true in all areas of life and is true in this case.  I would love to see you inquire about the authenticity of the pins with the seller and see the response.  It's up to you to decide how you handle the situation from here.  But I would urge you to "do the right thing" and not trade them @ Disney. As stated in this thread many, many times, it hurts everyone and the entire practice of pin trading is diminished.
> 
> Thanks for taking the time to ask questions!


I will inspect each pin carefully and look at pictures on PinPics and post here for reference if I need to. I will send a message to the seller if any are scrappers (probably quite a few) and request all real Disney Pins. If they are not real the second time around, I will report to ebay and Disney Legal and leave negative feedback. I would perfer not to send a message right now because, if I do, I am sure I will receive 100% scrappers.

Thanks for all of the help!


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## pixiewings71

CarolinaGirlTiss said:


> I think I have found a good seller on ebay but time will tell when I get my pins. This person does not sell in lots (like buying them for 1.35 a piece). I had to bid and win his auctions for individual pins. Some I won for as little as 1.27 some I had to bid up to $4. I am hoping these pins are legit, as I said, time will tell. The sellers ebay ID is thewill. Some of the pins came on the Disney tag still (of course I also learned you can buy those on ebay so that doesn't really mean anything). If I am not pleased with the lot and feel they aren't legit I will ask for a refund and not trade them. Can you look at his items and tell me what you think?



I've made many purchases from thewill and I've been happy with I've received.  Once or twice I've received scrappers but in all they've been good pins.  The "problem" I have him is simply the shipping he charges, his rates can be very high, even with combined shipping.


----------



## jessrose18

i have heard mousepinsonline is a good website, he sells 100 pins lots for around 175, does anybody know if all his pins are real?  And do you only get cL or do you get some other pins as well?


----------



## thelionqueen

dominicsplace said:


> I just wanted to say I have been reading through this thread and have learned quite a bit about Disney pins.
> 
> I was not really aware of the whole eBay counterfeit issue until just a couple days ago while reading a post on the Disney Tips board.
> 
> Anyway it seems that there a few folks in particular who strive to fight the fight on this issue, notably thelionqueen, jackskellingtonsgirl and pixiewings71 and I just wanted to say THANKS to them and all the other folks who contribute.
> 
> My DS 8 has been collecting them for the past couple years. We have bought them either at the parks or at the Disney store and fortunately he will rarely trade them, maybe 1 or 2 pins have been traded for. I wouldn't care so much if he traded one pin for another of "lesser" value (ie a starter pin) but I would be ticked if I got a fake pin as a result of someone knowingly purchasing this crp and then trading them for real ones.
> 
> So enough of my mini rant and THANKS to you folks who have been out there sticking up for the rest of us.



Thank YOU for posting this 
I get soooo tired of trying to convince those who think trading scrappers is OK that it's not (a losing battle btw ) and defending my strong opposition to buying scrappers from ebay.  
You've given a boost to this time consuming battle and I really appreciate it!


----------



## thelionqueen

jessrose18 said:


> i have heard mousepinsonline is a good website, he sells 100 pins lots for around 175, does anybody know if all his pins are real?  And do you only get cL or do you get some other pins as well?



There are other threads regarding purchases from mousepins, mostly negative.  I personally have had no dealings with them, but nearly everything I've read indicates scrappers (disclaimer...have not read every thread on the DIS )

Also, I'm a firm believer that any seller, on ebay or otherwise, that has large quantities of pins and is selling them in lots for so cheap are selling scrappers.  There are RARE exceptions to this rule.  If you're buying a pin for $1-2 dollars online in a "bundle or lot" they are probably fake.  (disclaimer..I stated probably.  I have personally been lucky enough to buy a pin or two for less on ebay that are authentic, but that is the exception)


----------



## thelionqueen

MountNittany said:


> I will inspect each pin carefully and look at pictures on PinPics and post here for reference if I need to. I will send a message to the seller if any are scrappers (probably quite a few) and request all real Disney Pins. If they are not real the second time around, I will report to ebay and Disney Legal and leave negative feedback. I would perfer not to send a message right now because, if I do, I am sure I will receive 100% scrappers.
> 
> Thanks for all of the help!



Good luck on this journey; I'm so sorry we even have to address this problem!
Let us know how things go, and thank you for taking steps to wipe out "scrappers" all together!!


----------



## CarolinaGirlTiss

Pixiewings, when you received a scarpper did you contact the seller (thewill) and if you did, did he replace the pins for a official pin or did you receive a refund? His shipping is a bit high and that might be how he makes his money. It was 3.00 for the first pin, 1.25 for the next one, and .50 for every pin after that. I think my total came to 13.75 and I bet he doesn't spend $5 (probably less) shipping it but in the end if I get pins that are legit I am happy.


----------



## CarolinaGirlTiss

I got some of my pins that I ordered off of ebay today (not from that seller I listed earlier). A few of them appear to be good quality (heavy) but have AAA stamped on the back. Are these tradable? I might not trade them anyway because they are Nemo and appear to be maybe a series. I guess I will check pinpics and see if they are there.


----------



## MountNittany

CarolinaGirlTiss said:


> I got some of my pins that I ordered off of ebay today (not from that seller I listed earlier). A few of them appear to be good quality (heavy) but have AAA stamped on the back. Are these tradable? I might not trade them anyway because they are Nemo and appear to be maybe a series. I guess I will check pinpics and see if they are there.


AAA? Never heard that one before.


----------



## CarolinaGirlTiss

It's the Triple A logo just not sure if these were given out by Disney so don't know if they will let me trade them. The person I bought these from off of ebay assured me before I purchased them that they had all been acquired through trades/purchases at Disney (not her exact words but close). Just not sure.


----------



## CarolinaGirlTiss

I did find them on pinpics and they are in a set of 4, I have 3 of them. Triple A is a sponsor I guess of Disney. I am guessing it makes these pins legit and I am able to trade them but I am awaiting others opinions.


----------



## pixiewings71

jessrose18 said:


> i have heard mousepinsonline is a good website, he sells 100 pins lots for around 175, does anybody know if all his pins are real?  And do you only get cL or do you get some other pins as well?



I've ordered from Mousepins and been very happy.  Every pin I've received from them seemed legit.  The deal with them is you also get Propins, in fact about half if not more of your purchase will be filled with Propins.  I like them personally but many "traders" won't take them.  CM's will but "professional traders" won't.  



CarolinaGirlTiss said:


> Pixiewings, when you received a scarpper did you contact the seller (thewill) and if you did, did he replace the pins for a official pin or did you receive a refund? His shipping is a bit high and that might be how he makes his money. It was 3.00 for the first pin, 1.25 for the next one, and .50 for every pin after that. I think my total came to 13.75 and I bet he doesn't spend $5 (probably less) shipping it but in the end if I get pins that are legit I am happy.



I let him know that they weren't good quality but that was it.  I didn't get anything else from him and I did leave good feedback.  My kids wanted the ones that I wasn't sure of so we kept them, but he did offer to take them back.  I just let him know I'd keep them because the kids liked them.   I definitely think he makes his money from shipping charges, I know I've won pins from him for .24 cents before!! 



CarolinaGirlTiss said:


> I got some of my pins that I ordered off of ebay today (not from that seller I listed earlier). A few of them appear to be good quality (heavy) but have AAA stamped on the back. Are these tradable? I might not trade them anyway because they are Nemo and appear to be maybe a series. I guess I will check pinpics and see if they are there.



AAA is a company here in CA that offers discounts on Disney trips.  You can book thru them, they are actually an insurance agency but you can also just join the auto club which gives you roadside assistance and travel perks.  If you book thru AAA Travel you will get a voucher for free pins/lanyards for trading, we have the set of 4 with Nemo themes, they are cute! We got them by trading with CM's.


----------



## MountNittany

CarolinaGirlTiss said:


> It's the Triple A logo just not sure if these were given out by Disney so don't know if they will let me trade them. The person I bought these from off of ebay assured me before I purchased them that they had all been acquired through trades/purchases at Disney (not her exact words but close). Just not sure.


OT:
Oh AAA like the emergency roadside assistance company?


----------



## CarolinaGirlTiss

Yes, that's it. With this set of pins we just got I can already see us getting attached to some of them. There were some pirate pins in there and my DD loves anything pirates. Don't know if these will see the light of the trading day or not.


----------



## pixiewings71

MountNittany said:


> OT:
> Oh AAA like the emergency roadside assistance company?



Yup, that's exactly what it is.  They also do travel arrangements and work with Disney.



CarolinaGirlTiss said:


> Yes, that's it. With this set of pins we just got I can already see us getting attached to some of them. There were some pirate pins in there and my DD loves anything pirates. Don't know if these will see the light of the trading day or not.



Oh yes, it's easy to get attached......I collect Pirates, Tink, Aurora, Jessica Rabbit & Maleficent....and anything else I see that I just like.....LOL


----------



## DisneyTreasurePins

Hello Pin Traders

I am new to the forum but have been pin trading for about 1 year now.My 4 year old daughter got me & wife started. I have a Ebay account and have started to sell only Official Disney Pins with the Back Cards that came with the pins.Please let me know what you think. 

My Ebay name is MickeysTreasure .

Please do not waste your Time or Money on Junk Scrappers that look like they have been skated on.You get what you pay for.

Thank you
Chris


----------



## MountNittany

DisneyTreasurePins said:


> Hello Pin Traders
> 
> I am new to the forum but have been pin trading for about 1 year now.My 4 year old daughter got me & wife started. I have a Ebay account and have started to sell only Official Disney Pins with the Back Cards that came with the pins.Please let me know what you think.
> 
> My Ebay name is MickeysTreasure .
> 
> Please do not waste your Time or Money on Junk Scrappers that look like they have been skated on.You get what you pay for.
> 
> Thank you
> Chris



Thank you!

But, I don't believe you can advertise on the Dis...


----------



## Jen M

I read all of this thread tonight. I am sure I missed alot and the question I am going to ask has probably been covered so I am sorry if I missed it. Has anyone purchased from mousepinsonline? If so how did they find the pins? Scrappers? I probably would only be buying about 15 max.


----------



## MountNittany

Jen M said:


> I read all of this thread tonight. I am sure I missed alot and the question I am going to ask has probably been covered so I am sorry if I missed it. Has anyone purchased from mousepinsonline? If so how did they find the pins? Scrappers? I probably would only be buying about 15 max.



Well, they sell propins, but they are clearly marked.


----------



## DisneyTreasurePins

I am allowed to share my Ebay name as long as I do not have a direct link to my page's.

Ive only heard good things about mousepinsonline.


----------



## MountNittany

DisneyTreasurePins said:


> I am allowed to share my Ebay name as long as I do not have a direct link to my page's.
> 
> Ive only heard good things about mousepinsonline.



Ok, that makes sense.


----------



## MountNittany

So, BBBC now added this to their description:


Dont be fooled by sellers that send you pins in tiny zip lock bags. *******SCRAPPERS***** They claim they are real. *Recently I have gotten neg feedback from buyers who are really sellers using another account to bring down my ratings. They are mad cause I offer the lowest prices on Ebay.*

I think I'm getting scrappers now for sure. First, zip loc bags have barely anything to do with it. A lot of sellers put them in bags to protect the pins. Second, they barely have any negitave feedback, and the way that that is written, it sounds like they are trying to cover up their scrappers. 

thelionqueen: I am starting to agree with you more and more that this person is a piece of work.


----------



## Jen M

MountNittany said:


> Well, they sell propins, but they are clearly marked.



Thanks. I know it is in this post but with a 2 year old running around I don't have the time right now to check. What are propins again? Are they ok to trade? 

I will check later on when my son isn't getting into everything. I would really like to order some pins today. I wish I had an outlet close to my house to get pins. I did see some on disneyshopping that were on clearance for around $7 which were about half price and wasn't sure if that was a good price for trading.


----------



## pixiewings71

Jen M said:


> I read all of this thread tonight. I am sure I missed alot and the question I am going to ask has probably been covered so I am sorry if I missed it. Has anyone purchased from mousepinsonline? If so how did they find the pins? Scrappers? I probably would only be buying about 15 max.





Jen M said:


> Thanks. I know it is in this post but with a 2 year old running around I don't have the time right now to check. What are propins again? Are they ok to trade?
> 
> I will check later on when my son isn't getting into everything. I would really like to order some pins today. I wish I had an outlet close to my house to get pins. I did see some on disneyshopping that were on clearance for around $7 which were about half price and wasn't sure if that was a good price for trading.



I've ordered from mousepins and been happy with my purchases.  They sell Propins and Bertoni's, the Propins are included with their lots but the Bertoni's are not.  Propins are tradeable with CMs in the parks but a lot of "regular people traders" won't take them.  I will but others won't.  They feel they are inferior in quality so won't take them.  As long as you give them to the CM's you will be fine, they have the Disney copyright on the back and that's what most of them look for.  



MountNittany said:


> So, BBBC now added this to their description:
> 
> 
> Dont be fooled by sellers that send you pins in tiny zip lock bags. *******SCRAPPERS***** They claim they are real. *Recently I have gotten neg feedback from buyers who are really sellers using another account to bring down my ratings. They are mad cause I offer the lowest prices on Ebay.*
> 
> I think I'm getting scrappers now for sure. First, zip loc bags have barely anything to do with it. A lot of sellers put them in bags to protect the pins. Second, they barely have any negitave feedback, and the way that that is written, it sounds like they are trying to cover up their scrappers.
> 
> thelionqueen: I am starting to agree with you more and more that this person is a piece of work.



I carry all of my pins around in little baggies, they are better protected that way!! I HATE it when someone opens their bag of traders and the pins are just bumping and rubbing all over each other.  I tend to shy away from trades with them.  Getting pins in baggies can be an indicator of scrappers, or not.  I know I've received eBayed scrappers just stuck to a card, so that's not really the best way to know.


----------



## Jen M

Thank you so much. My son will mostly be trading with CMs. He is only 4 and I am sure my 2 year old will want to do what his older brother is doing. I think I will check out mousepins. I only plan on ordering about 15 from them and getting some from the good ebay sellers and disney.


----------



## MountNittany

pixiewings71 said:


> I carry all of my pins around in little baggies, they are better protected that way!! I HATE it when someone opens their bag of traders and the pins are just bumping and rubbing all over each other.  I tend to shy away from trades with them.  Getting pins in baggies can be an indicator of scrappers, or not.  I know I've received eBayed scrappers just stuck to a card, so that's not really the best way to know.


I have a lanyard, which works too . I agree, it really shows nothing. This seller is just trying to cover up it's scrappers.


Jen M said:


> Thank you so much. My son will mostly be trading with CMs. He is only 4 and I am sure my 2 year old will want to do what his older brother is doing. I think I will check out mousepins. I only plan on ordering about 15 from them and getting some from the good ebay sellers and disney.


Hope you have fun!


----------



## pixiewings71

MountNittany said:


> I have a lanyard, which works too . I agree, it really shows nothing. This seller is just trying to cover up it's scrappers.
> 
> Hope you have fun!



Well I have a lanyard too but I carry extra traders in the park with me.  I have a lot that I can't fit on a lanyard or they are LE's or something that I don't want to wear on a lanyard, those I carry in a ziploc bag in my Mickey bag so I always have extra (or better) traders, just in case.


----------



## MountNittany

pixiewings71 said:


> Well I have a lanyard too but I carry extra traders in the park with me.  I have a lot that I can't fit on a lanyard or they are LE's or something that I don't want to wear on a lanyard, those I carry in a ziploc bag in my Mickey bag so I always have extra (or better) traders, just in case.



That's a very good idea. I'll have to do that this year.


----------



## Jen M

We are going to Disney for 10 days but only going to the parks for 8. How many pins do you think a 4 year old will need for trading?


----------



## MountNittany

There are pin trading cast members at your resort too!

I'd say about 1 per day.


----------



## Jen M

MountNittany said:


> There are pin trading cast members at your resort too!
> 
> I'd say about 1 per day.



That's right. I completely forgot about trading at the resorts. Thank you so much for all your help.


----------



## MountNittany

Just got my pins from BBBC, and so far, I believe they are all real. I will check pinpics though, since I received exactly two of each, and they were all in plastic bags with the adhesive seal.


----------



## thelionqueen

MountNittany said:


> Just got my pins from BBBC, and so far, I believe they are all real. I will check pinpics though, since I received exactly two of each, and they were all in plastic bags with the adhesive seal.



Just so you know, even though you compare on pinpics, that is really no sure way to determine the authenticity.  Here are some problems:

Scrappers have all the same markings/copyrights/etc. as authentic Disney Pins.  If you held a scrapper next to an identical authentic pin, you would never be able to tell the difference by style and markings (on back) alone.  Scrapper pins are made from the exact same mold (alledgedly) as authentic pins which is one of the major reasons this is so hard for Disney to manage.

The only "real" way to identify a scrapper (and future scrappers) is to have an authentic pin and a scrapper (identical pins) next to eachother.  Once you can do that, you will IMMEDIATELY be able to tell the difference.  The main factor is weight.  Scrappers are are much less dense, hence lighter.  The other obvious sign is the colors and sides of the pin.  Authentic Disney pins have a solid bright colored gold, or brass edge, and scrappers kind of look like a gold necklace, that is coated with gold that has been scratched off (only comparison I could think of sorry).  The actual colors of the pin are much less bright (almost dull) and a little "off" compared to actual pins.

With all that said, it sounds like, from your description, that maybe you lucked out and got authentic pins.  However, having seen the interactions this person has had with other DIS'ers and the sheer volume and price they have of pins, I could almost bet my life that there is no way they are real.  There is nothing in my mind that could substantiate (except outright theft of authentic pins) the sale of authentic pins in such volume at such a low price.

If there is any way you could scan a picture of the pins and post them, I would be really interested to see what you got, and eat my words if I'm wrong.

Thanks for sharing, and I TRULY hope they are real and I am wrong!!!


----------



## MountNittany

thelionqueen said:


> Just so you know, even though you compare on pinpics, that is really no sure way to determine the authenticity.  Here are some problems:
> 
> Scrappers have all the same markings/copyrights/etc. as authentic Disney Pins.  If you held a scrapper next to an identical authentic pin, you would never be able to tell the difference by style and markings (on back) alone.  Scrapper pins are made from the exact same mold (alledgedly) as authentic pins which is one of the major reasons this is so hard for Disney to manage.
> 
> The only "real" way to identify a scrapper (and future scrappers) is to have an authentic pin and a scrapper (identical pins) next to eachother.  Once you can do that, you will IMMEDIATELY be able to tell the difference.  The main factor is weight.  Scrappers are are much less dense, hence lighter.  The other obvious sign is the colors and sides of the pin.  Authentic Disney pins have a solid bright colored gold, or brass edge, and scrappers kind of look like a gold necklace, that is coated with gold that has been scratched off (only comparison I could think of sorry).  The actual colors of the pin are much less bright (almost dull) and a little "off" compared to actual pins.
> 
> With all that said, it sounds like, from your description, that maybe you lucked out and got authentic pins.  However, having seen the interactions this person has had with other DIS'ers and the sheer volume and price they have of pins, I could almost bet my life that there is no way they are real.  There is nothing in my mind that could substantiate (except outright theft of authentic pins) the sale of authentic pins in such volume at such a low price.
> 
> If there is any way you could scan a picture of the pins and post them, I would be really interested to see what you got, and eat my words if I'm wrong.
> 
> Thanks for sharing, and I TRULY hope they are real and I am wrong!!!


I hope you are wrong too! 

After looking more closely at each pin, I believe I have at least three sets of real pins (she sent two of each style).

However, the main problem that I am concerned with is that the backers are very strange. They seem to be made of plastic instead of rubber. The copyright is also on the flat side, instead of the opposite. One other problem is the font on the back of the pins. Some of the numbers on some pins do not look like my other Disney pins. 

I did compare thickness and weight with other Disney pins that are about the same size, and they seem to be very close. I wish I had all of these pins so I could compare them to each other.

If you want, I can take a close-up picture of each pin and post them.


----------



## thelionqueen

MountNittany said:


> I hope you are wrong too!
> 
> After looking more closely at each pin, I believe I have at least three sets of real pins (she sent two of each style).
> 
> However, the main problem that I am concerned with is that the backers are very strange. They seem to be made of plastic instead of rubber. The copyright is also on the flat side, instead of the opposite. One other problem is the font on the back of the pins. Some of the numbers on some pins do not look like my other Disney pins.
> 
> I did compare thickness and weight with other Disney pins that are about the same size, and they seem to be very close. I wish I had all of these pins so I could compare them to each other.
> 
> If you want, I can take a close-up picture of each pin and post them.



So far it sounds like they could be real.  If you wanted to post just a few pictures of the pins, I could make my best educated guess on their authenticity.  But again, without holding them and comparing them, it would be impossible for me to say for 100% certainty whether they are real or not.  I would like to see them if you don't mind posting them!


----------



## pixiewings71

What do you mean the backers?  That confuses me.  I have many different types of Disney pins, some have gold backs, some have silver, some black, some brass.  It's hard to tell by looking at the backs.  And even by the fonts.  If you take some pics and post them we can look at them but who knows if we can actually tell you if they are fake or not.  What set are they?


----------



## MountNittany

pixiewings71 said:


> What do you mean the backers?  That confuses me.  I have many different types of Disney pins, some have gold backs, some have silver, some black, some brass.  It's hard to tell by looking at the backs.  And even by the fonts.  If you take some pics and post them we can look at them but who knows if we can actually tell you if they are fake or not.  What set are they?



Sorry for the confusion.

I have never seen these backers before. They are smaller than the ones that I bought with pins off of the rack, and they have a glossy look to them. Also, the copyright is in a different place than the other backers.

One minute, I'll take a picture and post it.

You know what else I was thinking, all of these pins may just be hot. Think about it... when you go to New York City, and there are people on the streets selling Burbary Purses, they are the real thing, but the serial numbers are sanded off. They are hot, and that's how they are so cheap.


----------



## MountNittany

Here are the pics:

I got the Muppet Set with Ears





Here is a close-up of Gonzo





I got the cute pirate set





Here is a close-up of Goofy





And I got some random pins





Here is a close-up of Mickey





This is the backer





And this is the bag they each came in


----------



## pixiewings71

Oh the pin back....got it. lol  I couldn't figure what you meant. lol  Ok I don't know much about the muppet or cutie sets but I do know that the Snow White snowflake is scrapped a lot.  I have 3 or 4 of them that are fake.  The best way to tell on those is to look at the back, the "good" pins should have 2 small nubs by the pin post, the "bad" ones have a different type of post without the 2 nubs.


----------



## MountNittany

pixiewings71 said:


> Oh the pin back....got it. lol  I couldn't figure what you meant. lol  Ok I don't know much about the muppet or cutie sets but I do know that the Snow White snowflake is scrapped a lot.  I have 3 or 4 of them that are fake.  The best way to tell on those is to look at the back, the "good" pins should have 2 small nubs by the pin post, the "bad" ones have a different type of post without the 2 nubs.



Oh no! They have no nubs...

That one's a scrapper. Is that true for all pins?


----------



## MountNittany

I sent a message to BBBC about how I think that the pins may be scrappers...


			
				me said:
			
		

> Dear bibbidi_bobbidi_boo_colectibles,
> 
> I believe that many of the pins I received from this auction are scrappers. First, the backers are not the same that I get either from buying the backers directly from Disney or buying the pins off the rack at Disney. Also, the font used for the copyright on the back of the pin is different than all of my other pins. Finally, you seem to have a lot of the same exact pins, since you use the same picture for every auction, and I received exactly the same pins as in the picture. Could you please provide documentation that these pins are in fact real Disney pins?
> 
> - *Name Removed*



Here is their response:


			
				BBBC said:
			
		

> Dear *Name Removed*,
> 
> First, The pins are made by a licensed manufacture that supplies Disney. I use the same picture cause I am not gonna take a new one for every auctions. If you are dissatisfied with the pins, You can return them for a full refund,
> 
> I assure you the my items are not fake. The ones that do sell fake pins, sell you a lot of 100 pins with cast pins and LEs. when you look at the pins. The same LE and cast pins that are normally limited have gone around ebay millions of times. I sell small traders, for those who buy can go trade them selves for what they really want. I don't mention that if you buy so many I will send you alphabet letters like others do. What they don't tell you is that all the letters are fake
> 
> Please let me know what you wish to do
> 
> - bibbidi_bobbidi_boo_colectibles


----------



## heatherbabydoll1

Thanks for the update! Can you please lay the pins over on there faces and take pics of there backs? I like the fact she is willing to refund money!


----------



## thelionqueen

OK, here's my take.  I agree with Pixie Wings, the snowflake pins have been scrapped a lot, however I cannot tell, just by looking at them if they are fake.  However, my son has the entire set (traded @ DL which is where this set is "from") and all of his hav the "nubs" on the back, so I would feel confident in saying those are definitely fake.

As far as the "cuties" (many of the starter sets are/were called cuties, i.e., miniature versions of characters) it is possible the seller acquired a WHOLE LOT of authentic starter sets, but, in my opinion, unlikely.  I must admit that I have not heard of the cuties being part of the current "scrappers" so I really can't say for sure...  Since all the pins you posted are part of "starter sets" I really can't say for sure.

I guess one of the "red flags" for me is that these pins (all from starter sets) you said came in plastic bags right?   Then the seller bought the bags and put the pins in them, because, from my knowledge none of the starter sets had bags to be put in (were on cardboard backing in a box).

As far as the "Tink as Goofy" pins, these are almost definitely scrappers.  I haven't read anything as such, but I bought the "real" pin last year (maybe before) and on my most recent trip, there was one on almost every CM lanyard, which would indicate to me they are "mass produced" i.e., scrappers.  I also saw TONS of the sorcerer Mickey's, Dumbo & the others on our recent trip.  Now, by saying that I am only suggesting they are scrappers because there were SO many of them around.  I do have one of the Dumbo pins @ home that I will look at and report back.

Mountnittany..here's my opinion, and take it for what it's worth.

IMHO, this seller is DEFINITELY part of the HUGE problem of Ebay selling scrappers.  There is just no logical explanation why someone would have such a HUGE amount of "authentic" Disney pins and sell them SO inexpensively.

I am a CM, and I have bought pins on occasion at ROCK bottom prices (in DL mostly).  And even at that price point, buying discontinued starter kits, the individual price of each pin was MORE than what this person is selling them for.  

Now, there are 4 VERY active pin traders in my family, so when I saw these starter sets, I bought up all they had.  I'm talking buying directly from Disney mind you, and there was NOWHERE NEAR even 150 total pins for SALE to everyone, let alone me.  

If this person can give me a truthful and logical explanation as to how they got these pins in this quantity, and how they can sell them for such a low price, then I may be able to humor the idea that they are legit.  

The ONLY explanation I could come up with (which makes no sense either) is that they are "authentic" pins that were stolen from Disney.  The reason that theory makes no sense is that there is never that quantity of the same type pin on Disney shelves, unless they lifted them from several different Disney retailers.  Even then, it is impossible.


At the end of the day, after all the investigating, pondering, looking and watching, one thing continues to ring true.  If it seems too good to be true..it probably is.  

Anybody have any other thoughts???


----------



## pixiewings71

MountNittany said:


> Oh no! They have no nubs...
> 
> That one's a scrapper. Is that true for all pins?



No, it isn't true for all pins, but the newer ones it is true for.  It's so hard to tell sometimes, you get a great lot that you think perfect but you just never know.  It's very frustrating.  I've even received scrappers that had the 2 nubs on the back but I know they were scrappers because the back stamp was wrong, it said "hidden mickey pin 2 of 6" when in reality it's pin number 4. And the pin post itself was really bad, it looked like it was scorched around it.  I also got one that was in the ice sculture series from DL and it was made from aluminum, the paint they used on the back rubbed off on my fingers.  OMG, it was HORRIBLE!  These seller really rely on people not knowing or not caring that they have fakes.  Rack pins CAN be scrappers but it's not as common as it is for hidden mickeys to be scrapped.  I think I'd just return the pins you got, get your refund and go elsewhere for pins.  Also you said that you got the pins in plastic baggies right? WHY would someone have all those pins and repackage them?  When I've purchased pins from thewill he sends them in the package or on the backings.  Not every one of them of course but a lot of them come on the card.  I bought a lot of 4 from him, they came all together in the original box.  I have no idea where he got them but it would make no sense to repackage them into plastic baggies.  Also sending duplicates is a red flag for me as well.  I really think you should return them, but that's JMO so please don't feel pressure by me at all!


----------



## pixiewings71

Stolen, yes possibly but how and where would they steal so many pins?  And if you had stolen that many would you put them on eBay? Probably not.....


----------



## pixiewings71

Ok I can't take it anymore....I'm going to buy a lot of 20 from BBBC just to see what I get.  I'm sure I'll be out $24 but my mind will be ease and I'll be able to report with my opinion.  So here I go, off to buy 20 pins from someone I highly suspect is selling scrappers.  Wish me luck.....


----------



## jackskellingtonsgirl

The absolute ROCK BOTTOM cheapest pins I have ever purchased were the ones from the Disney Store that clearanced out for $1.99 each + 8.25% tax a couple of years ago.  I *might* have had a 15% off coupon, so MAYBE $1.69 plus tax.  I bought 150 or so (we used to have 6 Disney Stores in out area, and I bought every pin in every store).  My family traded all of them over a couple of trips.  They were smaller than pins you would buy in the parks, but still authentic Disney pins.  I think the full price was $5.

Last year I bought a ton of pin sets on clearance from Disney Shopping - those worked out to about $3 per pin + tax and I got free shipping with my Disney Visa.

There really is no legitimate way to come to possess thousands of pins that can be sold at a profit for under $2 each, even if the seller gouges on shipping.  

These eBay sellers are ordering direct from the Chinese counterfeiters.  At one time there was an e-mail that someone posted on Pin Pics where the company in China was MARKETING their fake pins with pics of both the front and back to show what fine quality fakes they had to offer.  Those pins were pennies apiece.

The only way to buy authentic pins on eBay is to find someone who is getting out of pin collecting and is liquidating their personal collection.  But even then, there will probably be fakes in the lot because anybody who has traded in the parks is going to have fakes, thanks to eBay.


----------



## MountNittany

lion, I believe that this seller is unknowingly purchasing scrappers. In her response to me, she said


> The pins are made by a licensed manufacture that supplies Disney.


Who would say that they bought the pins from a manufacturer that supplies Disney? That is an immediate red flag. She must not know that the same manufacturers that supply Disney manufacture scrappers.

I don't know what to do about the pins. I think I'll take them to Disney and ask Art the Doorman at the Beach Club. He is _very_ knowledgable in the area of pins, and I'm sure he will point me in the right direction.

BBBC just messaged me this:



> In the future the only way to know you purchased authentic
> pins is buy them at Disney



I don't know what to think of it.


----------



## MountNittany

pixiewings71 said:


> Ok I can't take it anymore....I'm going to buy a lot of 20 from BBBC just to see what I get.  I'm sure I'll be out $24 but my mind will be ease and I'll be able to report with my opinion.  So here I go, off to buy 20 pins from someone I highly suspect is selling scrappers.  Wish me luck.....



GL!

They are selling individual pins for 1.20 a piece with free shipping.


----------



## pixiewings71

That's what I bought, I got 20 so I should receive no duplicates.  Let's see what happens.   And yes, I wonder what she means by saying she gets them the same suppliers as Disney.  Are you going to return them?


----------



## MountNittany

pixiewings71 said:


> That's what I bought, I got 20 so I should receive no duplicates.  Let's see what happens.   And yes, I wonder what she means by saying she gets them the same suppliers as Disney.  Are you going to return them?



I'm going to take them to Disney and see what CMs and Traders say, and then try to return them if they are scrappers. If not, I will just keep them. I really don't care if I have scrappers, and I like them. They _look_ like real pins, and they feel like them too. I won't be able to tell the difference in my pin book. I just don't want to trade scrappers to CMs or other traders.


----------



## pixiewings71

That's what we will do too.  Let us know what you find out from the CMs please.


----------



## MountNittany

pixiewings71 said:


> That's what we will do too.  Let us know what you find out from the CMs please.



Np. I'm going the 14th to the 20th of June, and I believe that I may have internet access, although I am not sure. I may even decide to post a trip report, and include my pin trades too.


----------



## Jen M

OMG. That is so crappy. This BBBC needs to be reported. So I ordered 25 pins from mousepins is there anything I should be looking for when I got them. I have heard good things about them but also saw once that they are not good to deal with.


----------



## MountNittany

I believe that the sets are real. I have emailed many people that own the pins, and their description of the pins are very similar to my pins. They are all weighted correctly also. I will keep all of the random pins, since they are all scrappers, according to this discussion. I think I lucked out on the others, though.


----------



## DisneyTreasurePins

When will you be going to WDW mount?

Chris


----------



## MountNittany

DisneyTreasurePins said:


> When will you be going to WDW mount?
> 
> Chris



July 14th


----------



## MountNittany

Alright. I looked even closer and I believe I lucked out on every pin but the Sorceror, Tink, Dumbo, and Snow White pins. The backstamp fonts are exactly the same as my rack pins on the sets and Pluto. What should I do with pins that I know are scrappers? Also, if Art is unsure about the others, do you think that it is okay to trade those pins, since I think that they are real?
Thanks for all of the advice everyone.


----------



## Tammylynn

MountNittany said:


> What should I do with pins that I know are scrappers? Also, if Art is unsure about the others, do you think that it is okay to trade those pins, since I think that they are real?
> Thanks for all of the advice everyone.



On my recent trip I had this same struggle.  The pins I really felt were scrappers went back to the seller.  The ones I wasn't sure with I kept. Any pin I felt was for real I traded in the parks (unless I liked it!).  

I can't with conscience trade a pin that I have any doubts about.  So I only traded pins I'd be happy getting in return.

Some of the pins I traded for may be scrappers but they were what I wanted so they are on my display anyway.  I'm happy!


----------



## thelionqueen

MountNittany said:


> lion, I believe that this seller is unknowingly purchasing scrappers. In her response to me, she said
> 
> Who would say that they bought the pins from a manufacturer that supplies Disney? That is an immediate red flag. She must not know that the same manufacturers that supply Disney manufacture scrappers.
> 
> I don't know what to do about the pins. I think I'll take them to Disney and ask Art the Doorman at the Beach Club. He is _very_ knowledgable in the area of pins, and I'm sure he will point me in the right direction.
> 
> BBBC just messaged me this:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know what to think of it.



Thanks for everyone's responses, I am SO impressed at what everyone is doing to help the whole scrapper situation..so a BIG Thank you all!!:thumbsup

In response to Mount's post about the seller unknowingly buying scrappers, I just had to smile.  Technically, her response COULD make sense, here's what I mean.  She posted that she buys from an  licensed manufacturer that supplies Disney.  Scrappers are made in the same factories, using the same molds (for the most part-there are exceptions to this) that DO supply Disney.  I believe that the EXACT way this seller phrased that is VERY misleading to buyers and "technically" could be true.  

Here's the problem, they are NOT authorized by Disney NOR do they use the same quantity/type of materials that the authentic pins are.  For example, Disney orders 10000 of one type of pin.  They then order and pay for the specific amount of materials and labor it would take to produce it.  Once that "quota" is met, the scrapper makers, use the molds and whatever materials (if any) are left over and add substandard materials to make the scrapped pins.  

As a disclaimer, this is what I was told by someone who is very aware of this situation @ Disney.  This is not my personal assessment as to the production of scrappers, and I am, by no means an expert on knowing everything about this subject; just sharing what I was told and my own experience.

Bottom line is, there is NO ENTITY of the Walt Disney Company or its subsidiaries that supply this amount of pins to ANYBODY or ANY company anywhere PERIOD!!!  Ask youself this...WHY would Disney have an overseas company that would DIRECTLY compete with its US Park and Retail sales???  Why would they have ANYTHING ANYWHERE that would offer its products for 90% off the retail price they command?  IT WOULD'NT!!!  Has anyone been lucky enough to find ANY Disney merchandise ANYWHERE for 90+% off regularly?  I can tell you, being a penny pincher, I HAVE lucked out here and there and found sale merchandise from Disney, but it is VERY rare, and I'm lucky to find one or two things, not thousands, and certainly not on a regular basis.

Anyone who knows anything about the Disney company and how strictly it manages its copyright (this problem excluded thus far) knows they would NEVER and I mean NEVER have anything that would even REMOTELY compete with its MASSIVE retail sales using its copyright.

I think we can dissect and investigate this to death and never fully know exactly how this works or what these sellers are doing.  The bottom line is this, I think we all know that these people are not selling Disney products legitimately.  I think if we all look at this simply and logically, there is just no way these people could have come into this product in any other way than illegally.  Whether it be buying scrappers from overseas or theft, bottom line is, don't buy from them.  Buy from Disney and there is no question.

Sorry for the vent, it just makes me so mad that these people are hurting a hobby and company I love.  It takes me SO much of my personal time and effort to fight this fight.  But if I can make even ONE person NOT buy from these people and not infiltrate scrappers into the pin trading community, I will continue to educate as best I can.  Thanks again to everyone who is taking the time to educate themselves and making a difference!!!!!


----------



## thelionqueen

Couple more things to add.  While Art is EASILY my favorite CM (and person for that matter) he may not the most knowledgeable regarding scrappers.  

He does know a lot about pin trading, but in his position as a greeter, and just his excellent and perfect demeanor in general, I do not think he would have enough time and/or knowledge about this to be the best resource.  I may be wrong, I've never talked to him about scrappers, just pin trading.  By the way, tell him the Colorado Clan says hi and we miss him!!

Mount..my advice is this...do whatever you feel is right, simple as that.  If you feel good about trading the pins you feel are authentic, I say go for it.  However, if you have any question at all, I would say keep them, don't trade them.  Personally, I would send them all back and ask for a refund.  Only because its brain damaging to try to figure out what's right and what's wrong.  And even worse, if it were me and I were trading at the parks, the LAST thing I would want to worry about is "is this pin real, will this CM not accept it, etc".  Buying from Disney takes all that questioning and guilt away.  YES it is more expensive, but let me tell you.  When you're at Pin Traders, looking at all the gorgeous authentic Disney pins, and pay a little more, it makes up for it in every other way imaginable.  Only you can decide what is right for you, and as long as it makes you feel good (that is why we all love pin trading isn't it?) GO FOR IT!!

No matter what, enjoy your trip and pin trade until they utilize a jack hammer to chisel the smile from your face


----------



## MountNittany

thelionqueen said:


> Thanks for everyone's responses, I am SO impressed at what everyone is doing to help the whole scrapper situation..so a BIG Thank you all!!:thumbsup
> 
> In response to Mount's post about the seller unknowingly buying scrappers, I just had to smile.  Technically, her response COULD make sense, here's what I mean.  She posted that she buys from an  licensed manufacturer that supplies Disney.  Scrappers are made in the same factories, using the same molds (for the most part-there are exceptions to this) that DO supply Disney.  I believe that the EXACT way this seller phrased that is VERY misleading to buyers and "technically" could be true.
> 
> Here's the problem, they are NOT authorized by Disney NOR do they use the same quantity/type of materials that the authentic pins are.  For example, Disney orders 10000 of one type of pin.  They then order and pay for the specific amount of materials and labor it would take to produce it.  Once that "quota" is met, the scrapper makers, use the molds and whatever materials (if any) are left over and add substandard materials to make the scrapped pins.
> 
> As a disclaimer, this is what I was told by someone who is very aware of this situation @ Disney.  This is not my personal assessment as to the production of scrappers, and I am, by no means an expert on knowing everything about this subject; just sharing what I was told and my own experience.
> 
> Bottom line is, there is NO ENTITY of the Walt Disney Company or its subsidiaries that supply this amount of pins to ANYBODY or ANY company anywhere PERIOD!!!  Ask youself this...WHY would Disney have an overseas company that would DIRECTLY compete with its US Park and Retail sales???  Why would they have ANYTHING ANYWHERE that would offer its products for 90% off the retail price they command?  IT WOULD'NT!!!  Has anyone been lucky enough to find ANY Disney merchandise ANYWHERE for 90+% off regularly?  I can tell you, being a penny pincher, I HAVE lucked out here and there and found sale merchandise from Disney, but it is VERY rare, and I'm lucky to find one or two things, not thousands, and certainly not on a regular basis.
> 
> Anyone who knows anything about the Disney company and how strictly it manages its copyright (this problem excluded thus far) knows they would NEVER and I mean NEVER have anything that would even REMOTELY compete with its MASSIVE retail sales using its copyright.
> 
> I think we can dissect and investigate this to death and never fully know exactly how this works or what these sellers are doing.  The bottom line is this, I think we all know that these people are not selling Disney products legitimately.  I think if we all look at this simply and logically, there is just no way these people could have come into this product in any other way than illegally.  Whether it be buying scrappers from overseas or theft, bottom line is, don't buy from them.  Buy from Disney and there is no question.
> 
> Sorry for the vent, it just makes me so mad that these people are hurting a hobby and company I love.  It takes me SO much of my personal time and effort to fight this fight.  But if I can make even ONE person NOT buy from these people and not infiltrate scrappers into the pin trading community, I will continue to educate as best I can.  Thanks again to everyone who is taking the time to educate themselves and making a difference!!!!!



I will probably buy the starter sets next time, like I did last year. It was only about $3 a pin!

I can also try MousePinsOnline, or whatever it is called.


thelionqueen said:


> Couple more things to add.  While Art is EASILY my favorite CM (and person for that matter) he may not the most knowledgeable regarding scrappers.
> 
> He does know a lot about pin trading, but in his position as a greeter, and just his excellent and perfect demeanor in general, I do not think he would have enough time and/or knowledge about this to be the best resource.  I may be wrong, I've never talked to him about scrappers, just pin trading.  By the way, tell him the Colorado Clan says hi and we miss him!!
> 
> Mount..my advice is this...do whatever you feel is right, simple as that.  If you feel good about trading the pins you feel are authentic, I say go for it.  However, if you have any question at all, I would say keep them, don't trade them.  Personally, I would send them all back and ask for a refund.  Only because its brain damaging to try to figure out what's right and what's wrong.  And even worse, if it were me and I were trading at the parks, the LAST thing I would want to worry about is "is this pin real, will this CM not accept it, etc".  Buying from Disney takes all that questioning and guilt away.  YES it is more expensive, but let me tell you.  When you're at Pin Traders, looking at all the gorgeous authentic Disney pins, and pay a little more, it makes up for it in every other way imaginable.  Only you can decide what is right for you, and as long as it makes you feel good (that is why we all love pin trading isn't it?) GO FOR IT!!
> 
> No matter what, enjoy your trip and pin trade until they utilize a jack hammer to chisel the smile from your face




Good point though, he may not know too much about scrappers.

I think I'll just keep the pins, because I don't mind if I own scrappers, just as long as they look real. I will not trade scrappers to CMs though .


----------



## MountNittany

Do you think that it was fair to leave this feedback?



> Beware! Some scrappers received. Seller offered a refund, but I kept pins.


----------



## Tammylynn

MountNittany said:


> Do you think that it was fair to leave this feedback?



I think it is fair to alert other buyers.  The problem is that they may not know what 'scrappers' are.  Maybe if you haven't left the feedback you could change it to 'unauthorized' or even 'fake'.


----------



## pixiewings71

Jen M said:


> OMG. That is so crappy. This BBBC needs to be reported. So I ordered 25 pins from mousepins is there anything I should be looking for when I got them. I have heard good things about them but also saw once that they are not good to deal with.



I've always been happy with my mousepins purchases.  The only thing is they send Propins as well as Official Disney pins.  The CM's will take the Propins but "regular" people traders (read intense collectors here) will not.  



MountNittany said:


> Alright. I looked even closer and I believe I lucked out on every pin but the Sorceror, Tink, Dumbo, and Snow White pins. The backstamp fonts are exactly the same as my rack pins on the sets and Pluto. What should I do with pins that I know are scrappers? Also, if Art is unsure about the others, do you think that it is okay to trade those pins, since I think that they are real?
> Thanks for all of the advice everyone.



I think you should do what you feel right doing.  I can't say really but I'll know soon because I should get the ones I ordered from them soon.  If I have any doubts I will return them.  




MountNittany said:


> Do you think that it was fair to leave this feedback?



I think your feedback was fine, but I think it will get buried very fast.  She seems to sell a lot so her feedback moves quickly.  But you did the right thing.


----------



## MountNittany

Does anybody know about cfc93?


----------



## LittleFlounder

MountNittany said:


> Does anybody know about cfc93?



I don't have experience with that seller, but I wouldn't buy from them. I don't think you can trust *any* seller who sells in lots of 25-200! and all their pictures are the same.


----------



## DisneyTreasurePins

If BBBC was getting them from same supplier as Disney why are they limited to only 20 different styles? Check your pins with Pin Pics.

Scrappers can have :

Small scratches all over front.
Small lettering for Official Disney Pin Trading and Copyright Disney/Limited Edition
All pins are different but the Nubs around the Pin
Come in baggies

These are just some things Ive found from other boards and from my pins.Does BBBC pins come in little zip baggies?


Chris


----------



## Jen M

MountNittany said:


> Do you think that it was fair to leave this feedback?



That is awesome good for you. I think what you did was great. She can't say that you were another ebay seller with the comment you left. I think you did a great job and more people should leave comments like that.


----------



## MountNittany

LittleFlounder said:


> I don't have experience with that seller, but I wouldn't buy from them. I don't think you can trust *any* seller who sells in lots of 25-200! and all their pictures are the same.



I agree. I will not buy from them

Chris, thanks for the info

That is often true, but the pins I received all fit under the criteria of "real pin". My only problem at this point is the font on the back of some of the pins. Everything is fine, except the year number on some of them. It just isn't the same as my rack pins, but some of them seem perfectly legit.

Tammylynn, I am only going to trade the pins that I think are real, just as you said. Thanks for the advice


----------



## MountNittany

Perfect example of why these sellers make so much money. I showed the pins to my pin trading cousin today, and he said that he thinks they are real because they have the official backstamp on them, and because he saw them in the park. Disney needs to educate people about scrappers. They are the SAME as the pins that are legit Disney pins, but they are lower quality. They are made from the SAME mold.


----------



## Jen M

I know this site is mainly about ebay but I am wondering if anyone who has ordered from mousepins can tell me how long they before they send you tracking info. They claim they send tracking info but I haven't recieved mine yet and it has been 3 business days.


----------



## pixiewings71

I don't think I've ever received tracking from mousepins for my shipments.  But if you need it contact them and let them know you haven't received and ask if they can resend it.


----------



## thelionqueen

MountNittany said:


> Perfect example of why these sellers make so much money. I showed the pins to my pin trading cousin today, and he said that he thinks they are real because they have the official backstamp on them, and because he saw them in the park. Disney needs to educate people about scrappers. They are the SAME as the pins that are legit Disney pins, but they are lower quality. They are made from the SAME mold.



Exactly right!! And what's worse, is that I think the majority of those people trading scrappers have no idea what they're doing.  So while you can't blame someone for truly not knowing, if they weren't selling them on ebay at all, this wouldn't be an issue.  

This is a very hard issue for Disney to get a handle on, but rest assured they are aware of the problem.  Solving it is a whole other ball game.  It could literally take years going through all the legal channels and loopholes.  But just recently, they announced that they are placing MUCH higher levels of quality control on productions overseas..we will see if that has any impact.

Mount..just a personal note to say THANK YOU for taking the time to educate, post, leave feedback, and everything else you've done regarding this.  It is TRULY inspirational to know that people want to do the right thing, and are willing to stick their neck out!  You ROCK!!!


----------



## pixiewings71

maybe, instead of making these pins overseas they should make them here...then scrappers wouldn't be such an issue!!


----------



## thelionqueen

pixiewings71 said:


> maybe, instead of making these pins overseas they should make them here...then scrappers wouldn't be such an issue!!



ita!!!!!!!


----------



## MountNittany

thelionqueen said:


> Exactly right!! And what's worse, is that I think the majority of those people trading scrappers have no idea what they're doing.  So while you can't blame someone for truly not knowing, if they weren't selling them on ebay at all, this wouldn't be an issue.
> 
> This is a very hard issue for Disney to get a handle on, but rest assured they are aware of the problem.  Solving it is a whole other ball game.  It could literally take years going through all the legal channels and loopholes.  But just recently, they announced that they are placing MUCH higher levels of quality control on productions overseas..we will see if that has any impact.
> 
> Mount..just a personal note to say THANK YOU for taking the time to educate, post, leave feedback, and everything else you've done regarding this.  It is TRULY inspirational to know that people want to do the right thing, and are willing to stick their neck out!  You ROCK!!!


Thank you so much!


pixiewings71 said:


> maybe, instead of making these pins overseas they should make them here...then scrappers wouldn't be such an issue!!


It would still be a problem, I'm sure, but it would be better. I bet they'd up the prices, even though they still make a bundle.


----------



## MountNittany

I'm going to buy a few pins from different sellers. I will post if they are real or fake. I'm pretty sure now that 20 of the BBBC pins were scrappers, and 20 were real.


----------



## pixiewings71

I'm sure it would still be a problem but I think they would be better able to keep it in hand if it was all done here.


----------



## MountNittany

pixiewings71 said:


> I'm sure it would still be a problem but I think they would be better able to keep it in hand if it was all done here.



I agree 

That would not be a huge switchover either, it's not like they need presses for pins. I'm sure that they could make them in some of the closing down businesses in the US.


----------



## MountNittany

I am sending this out to some sellers.


> I would love to buy your lot of pins, but first I have a few questions.
> 
> How do you obtain your pins, and are these scrappers/unauthorized fake pins?
> 
> Thanks



These are the responses so far:

nannub(probably scrappers, high sales volume, lots of lots)


> We get all our pins from trading with cast members obviously since we got them$ from cast members they are all 100percent tradeable use my feedback to make your decision



travelinwynns(no way they are real!)


> Hi,
> I buy discounted pins and I trade several thousand pins in the WDW parks every month. Anyone selling pins this way has to be doing the same as the Cheapest Disney pins sell for $6.95 at the parks. I am being up front with you. You will have no problem trading any of the pins you buy from me with cast members as they are all official Disney pins. Many of the pins I have have been traded for over the past few months. I really do not know how to tell if a pin is unautherised as I was told by the head pin person at WDW last year if it said Disney on the back it was a good pin as far as he was concerned. If my answer to you makes you uneasy about buying from me I would suggest that you be very carful about buying from any one else in this price range either.
> Thanks for asking
> Travelinwynns



fox_trading_co(NO WAY! You can't buy HM pins if you are a CM!)


> My pins come from Florida. My supplier has children that work for Disney. The pins have been traded they are not new.
> 
> Thank you for watching my eBay auctions.


----------



## MountNittany

gold747(pretty sure that they are real, sells mostly antiques, money, and stamps)


> All are Genuine Disney issues with the Official Disney Trademark on back along with the Official Pin Trading emblem. We do not purchase scrappers or fakes.....all pins come from Disneyland or Disney World Florida. Thanks for your interest.


I would be surprised if someone said this and they _were_ selling scrappers. They clearly stated that they sold genuine issue Disney pins. Most of the sellers don't clearly state this.


----------



## MountNittany

snowdog!(blocked me, probably because I left negative feedback for BBBC)


> As stated in the auction, they have all been acquired through trading in the parks. I live 5 minutes from the main gate at Magic Kingdom and Disney World. Thank you for your email.


I also received this in response to my question about them blocking me:


> I believe you just answered your own question. You seem like high maintenance and I don't want to deal with you accusing me like you did the other seller. Best of luck.



bibbidi_bobbidi_boo_colectibles(I purchased from them, and I received at least 80% scrappers)

Sleepys_Emporium
Other Disers have had great transactions with them!

thewill
Other Disers have had great transactions with them!

mubunny
Other Disers have had great transactions with them, including me!

www.mousepinsonline.com
Other Disers have had great transactions with them!

/www.geocities.com/thepinstation/
Other Disers have had great transactions with them!


----------



## pixiewings71

I've only purchased from one of those sellers, nannub. And yes he does get his pins by trading, BUT he trades scrappers to newbies, tells them to go buy him $14.95 pins and the good pins are what he's selling, so that's how he does that.  How do I know? It was a post from someone else on the boards and I asked for a PM with the sellers name.  I do believe the person who gave me the info.  I won't buy from him now because what he's doing is wrong.


----------



## MountNittany

pixiewings71 said:


> I've only purchased from one of those sellers, nannub. And yes he does get his pins by trading, BUT he trades scrappers to newbies, tells them to go buy him $14.95 pins and the good pins are what he's selling, so that's how he does that.  How do I know? It was a post from someone else on the boards and I asked for a PM with the sellers name.  I do believe the person who gave me the info.  I won't buy from him now because what he's doing is wrong.



That's awful! I will never buy from him!


----------



## DisneyTreasurePins

That was me a year ago. Getting taken advantage of just trying to make my daughter happy. Its very wrong not only are they robbing people but also turning kids down because of there selection of pins.My daughter asked me Why doesn't he wanna trade with me.That is one of the reasons why I do not trade with Guest's and only Cast Members because they cannot let her down and always have something nice to say. I'm glad they stopped it to where they cant ask you to go into the store and buy a pin for the trade. 

Chris


----------



## thelionqueen

I am sending this out to some sellers.

Quote:
I would love to buy your lot of pins, but first I have a few questions.

How do you obtain your pins, and are these scrappers/unauthorized fake pins?

Thanks  

These are the responses so far:

nannub(probably scrappers, high sales volume, lots of lots)

Quote:
We get all our pins from trading with cast members obviously since we got them$ from cast members they are all 100percent tradeable use my feedback to make your decision  

*I have heard of this seller and would steer clear!  It is very vague and makes no sense.  A lot of sellers try to use the "they are tradeable at the parks" excuse.  And most are, but it doesn't make them legitimate.  And since they refer to feedback from unknowing buyers, I would completely discount that comment.  I say no way!*

travelinwynns(not sure)

Quote:
Hi,
I buy discounted pins and I trade several thousand pins in the WDW parks every month. Anyone selling pins this way has to be doing the same as the Cheapest Disney pins sell for $6.95 at the parks. I am being up front with you. You will have no problem trading any of the pins you buy from me with cast members as they are all official Disney pins. Many of the pins I have have been traded for over the past few months. I really do not know how to tell if a pin is unautherised as I was told by the head pin person at WDW last year if it said Disney on the back it was a good pin as far as he was concerned. If my answer to you makes you uneasy about buying from me I would suggest that you be very carful about buying from any one else in this price range either.
Thanks for asking
Travelinwynns  

*This one is just ridiculous!  The ONLY thing I see as credible is the very last sentence, which is what we advocate on this thread OVER and OVER!!  Secondly, if this person trades THOUSANDS of pins monthly, that would make him a serious trader.  A serious pin trader KNOWS scrappers.  Besides that, if this person IS a serious trader, they would NOT WANT TO sell their pins, LET ALONE for pennies on the dollar.  Makes absolutely NO sense!!  Lastly, who exactly is the "head pin person @ WDW" and why, if they trade so frequently, has was his only conversation with this person last year?  I just had to laugh..honestly "the head pin person @ WDW" gimme a break *

fox_trading_co(not sure)

Quote:
My pins come from Florida. My supplier has children that work for Disney. The pins have been traded they are not new.

* If it weren't for the seller above, this one would take the cake (close race though).  I love how he completely distances himself from "his supplier".  And "his supplier" has children that work for Disney.  #1, it is stated in every handbook and at every venue for CM's buying merchandise, you CANNOT buy the merchandise (whatever it is) with intent to resell and make money!!!  That is in DIRECT violation of Disney policy and creates direct competition for Disney sales.  Let's say "these children of his supplier" (sorry cracks me up every time..makes me think of, "I got this tv from my cousin's room mates friend who has a brother that works at Best Buy on weekends ) anyway, I digress.  Let's say these CM's actually do work for Disney and DO violate policy and DO buy merchandise for resale.  #1 There is ABSOLUTELY NO QUANTITY available for purchase.  AND, IF THERE WERE, there is a strict limit per CM available for purchase.  #3, the actual discount is FAR MORE than what they are selling them FOR!!  So if they did buy them @ the lowest CM cost, their SELLING price is BELOW the cost they paid for them, they would LOSE money on every pin..Makes no sense!!*

Thank you for watching my eBay auctions.  

Mount..bottom line, if you're buying cheap pins from ebay, they are scrappers.  These sellers are NOT going to tell you "oh, I bought these illegally overseas".  They are going to make up whatever they can to TRY (emphasize TRY) to sound official.  NONE OF THEM ARE..PERIOD!!  There is simply NO explanation of such volume and such a cheap price.

I would look back in this thread, there are at least 3 sellers that have gotten rave reviews.  I personally bought from sleepys_emporium (pixie..is that right?) and they were GREAT!!  You will likely pay around $3 per pin from Legit sellers if you can find them.  Anything less than that is highly suspect.  Good luck on your search.  If you buy from Disney, although more expensive, you remove all doubt and further the true pin trading experience.


----------



## pixiewings71

Yes, Sleepys_Emporium has good pins, I've been happy with what I've purchased from her.  They are in the process of opening their own website but I don't think it's up yet.


----------



## MountNittany

thelionqueen said:


> Mount..bottom line, if you're buying cheap pins from ebay, they are scrappers.  These sellers are NOT going to tell you "oh, I bought these illegally overseas".  They are going to make up whatever they can to TRY (emphasize TRY) to sound official.  NONE OF THEM ARE..PERIOD!!  There is simply NO explanation of such volume and such a cheap price.
> 
> I would look back in this thread, there are at least 3 sellers that have gotten rave reviews.  I personally bought from sleepys_emporium (pixie..is that right?) and they were GREAT!!  You will likely pay around $3 per pin from Legit sellers if you can find them.  Anything less than that is highly suspect.  Good luck on your search.  If you buy from Disney, although more expensive, you remove all doubt and further the true pin trading experience.



I completely agree, and I had no intention of purchasing from these sellers.

Gold, however, only had 2 pin auctions in his past 200 feedbacks. I believe that he may have real pins, since he doesn't sell many and he starts his auctions much higher than everyone else.


----------



## thelionqueen

MountNittany said:


> I completely agree, and I had no intention of purchasing from these sellers.
> 
> *Gold, however, only had 2 pin auctions in his past 200 feedbacks. I believe that he may have real pins, since he doesn't sell many and he starts his auctions much higher than everyone else*.


Sounds Good!!!


----------



## pixiewings71

DisneyTreasurePins said:


> That was me a year ago. Getting taken advantage of just trying to make my daughter happy. Its very wrong not only are they robbing people but also turning kids down because of there selection of pins.My daughter asked me Why doesn't he wanna trade with me.That is one of the reasons why I do not trade with Guest's and only Cast Members because they cannot let her down and always have something nice to say. I'm glad they stopped it to where they cant ask you to go into the store and buy a pin for the trade.
> 
> Chris



Chris not all traders are like this.  We love trading with kids and will often trade something "good" for something "normal", please don't judge everyone by the actions of a few of us.  I have people tell me "you don't have anything I need but....." and I just shake my head and move away.  Except for 1 or 2 or 3 traders we don't do that at all.  The few that we do buy pins for, they want rack pins in trade for LE's or Hidden Mickeys, we've been trading with them for a long time, they are nice people and we like them. 



MountNittany said:


> I completely agree, and I had no intention of purchasing from these sellers.
> 
> Gold, however, only had 2 pin auctions in his past 200 feedbacks. I believe that he may have real pins, since he doesn't sell many and he starts his auctions much higher than everyone else.



That sounds good, that person may have good pins for sale then.


----------



## addicted2dizney

I have some pins that I am quite sure are scrappers however their quality is very, very good.  There have been times that I have chosen pins that I know to be scrappers off a CM's lanyard.  Me and my kids are in it for the fun of it.  Besides the fun we have trading the very good quality scrappers, (I'm assuming most of them are that I have purchased) we also buy at least $100 pins in the parks from Disney on our yearly visit.  For us it's all in fun so we are aware of what's out there.  Our collection is only for our enjoyment so we love it!


----------



## pixiewings71

Our collection is for our enjoyment as well.  But it really stinks to have someone tell you point blank "your pins are all fake, you need to educate yourself on scrappers" and refuse to trade with you.  Especially when you gave a CM a really nice pin in trade.  It also stinks to trade a pin you paid $6.95 or more for only to get a scrapper in return.


----------



## joseph'smom

I am sick to my stomach having read this- we are going on our first Disney Cruise soon and I bought pins off of Ebay for my son to trade.  I figured the CM would already have ones available on the ship, so I thought that buying them on ebay would help him get a start.  We have never been to WDW, and don't have Disney stores anywhere so we have no other way to buy them....now I realize that all of the ones I bought him are most likely scrappers and he was so so excited to get them in the mail today.  He doesn't understand why we can't trade them...he is devastated.


----------



## Tammylynn

joseph'smom said:


> I am sick to my stomach having read this- we are going on our first Disney Cruise soon and I bought pins off of Ebay for my son to trade.  I figured the CM would already have ones available on the ship, so I thought that buying them on ebay would help him get a start.  We have never been to WDW, and don't have Disney stores anywhere so we have no other way to buy them....now I realize that all of the ones I bought him are most likely scrappers and he was so so excited to get them in the mail today.  He doesn't understand why we can't trade them...he is devastated.



It isn't too late.  From what I've seen, most of the scrapper sellers on e-bay will let you return the pins for a refund.  They do this to avoid negative feedback and probably in hopes they won't be reported.  

Send a message to the e-bay member and let them know that you've checked the pins against pinpics.com.  You are concerned because many of the pins they sent to you do not seem authentic.  Request that they replace X pins or give a full refund.  Unfortunately if you send them back they will eventually be sold back to another person who doesn't know about scrappers.

Check back in the e-bay seller threads to find a decent seller and get some of those before your cruise!  Then your son will still have some great pins to trade on the ship.


----------



## thelionqueen

joseph'smom said:


> I am sick to my stomach having read this- we are going on our first Disney Cruise soon and I bought pins off of Ebay for my son to trade.  I figured the CM would already have ones available on the ship, so I thought that buying them on ebay would help him get a start.  We have never been to WDW, and don't have Disney stores anywhere so we have no other way to buy them....now I realize that all of the ones I bought him are most likely scrappers and he was so so excited to get them in the mail today.  He doesn't understand why we can't trade them...he is devastated.



I am SO sorry that you had to find this out, but the good news is that you found out in time to do something about it.  

I agree with the previous post indicating that you should return them for a refund.  Do this as soon as possible.  You can always buy authentic pins on the ship, so even if you don't have any outlets available to you locally, that option is the best and always available.

Depending on when you depart, you can sometimes find deals on pins on www.disneystore.com, check them out too.  Don't worry, just be glad you figured it out now and not on the ship.  I would tell my son the reasoning behind it, how it was an honest mistake, but how it will be corrected.  I'd bet that he will understand just fine, and when he does get on the ship with authentic pins to trade, will have even more fun doing so!

I fully understand that pin trading is expensive.  There are ways to buy pins less than buying directly from the ship, park or store.  But the savings are truly not worth the repercussions that occur by buying and trading scrappers.  Let us know what happens!


----------



## MountNittany

You can also purchase pins from the sellers we mentioned on this thread, or from mousepinsonline.com, which is a good site :

I just purchased 3 lots of 5 from mubunny to replenish my traders since BBBC's pins are mostly scrappers. They are cool pins, so I will keep them if they are scrappers. She didn't have a HUGE volume of pin auctions, like BBBC and others, so I thought they may be okay. I will post pics again when I get them. Another green flag is the fact that she posts pictures of every single lot she sells.


----------



## joseph'smom

thelionqueen said:


> I am SO sorry that you had to find this out, but the good news is that you found out in time to do something about it.
> 
> I agree with the previous post indicating that you should return them for a refund.  Do this as soon as possible.  You can always buy authentic pins on the ship, so even if you don't have any outlets available to you locally, that option is the best and always available.
> 
> Depending on when you depart, you can sometimes find deals on pins on www.disneystore.com, check them out too.  Don't worry, just be glad you figured it out now and not on the ship.  I would tell my son the reasoning behind it, how it was an honest mistake, but how it will be corrected.  I'd bet that he will understand just fine, and when he does get on the ship with authentic pins to trade, will have even more fun doing so!
> 
> I fully understand that pin trading is expensive.  There are ways to buy pins less than buying directly from the ship, park or store.  But the savings are truly not worth the repercussions that occur by buying and trading scrappers.  Let us know what happens!




I wasn't as worried about the cost as much as I was worried that the CM on the ship would already have the pins we would purchase on the ship.  I think I will go to the Disney store and buy him some.  Do you know of any that are not common on the cruiseline?  I'd like for him to have some that the CM on board wouldn't already have...I am going to contact the seller right now.  There is only one "obvious" scrapper, but I went to the pinpics website, and I don't even see these pins on there...they have the "official" markings, but now I know that doesn't mean a thing.  What a shame!


----------



## joseph'smom

MountNittany said:


> You can also purchase pins from the sellers we mentioned on this thread, or from mousepinsonline.com, which is a good site :
> 
> I just purchased 3 lots of 5 from mubunny to replenish my traders since BBBC's pins are mostly scrappers. They are cool pins, so I will keep them if they are scrappers. She didn't have a HUGE volume of pin auctions, like BBBC and others, so I thought they may be okay. I will post pics again when I get them. Another green flag is the fact that she posts pictures of every single lot she sells.



Thanks!  I will do just that.  Does BBBC stand for bibbidy--blah blah blah?  B/c that's who I got them from!!!  I don't  mind paying reg. price for a few - e's just 6 yrsold and I just want to create fun memories. I didn't even realize how exp. they really are- I assumed the more exp ones were just rare.  

I really hate that this has happened to a hobby so many people are passionate about.


----------



## pixiewings71

joseph'smom said:


> Thanks!  I will do just that.  Does BBBC stand for bibbidy--blah blah blah?  B/c that's who I got them from!!!  I don't  mind paying reg. price for a few - e's just 6 yrsold and I just want to create fun memories. I didn't even realize how exp. they really are- I assumed the more exp ones were just rare.
> 
> I really hate that this has happened to a hobby so many people are passionate about.



Yup, BBBC is Bibbidi Bobbidi Boutique Collectibles.  The more I read the more I'm sure I'll be returning these!! lol  

Mt Nittany, I've ordered from mubunny and been happy.  The past few times I've check her page she hasn't had anything up.  

Joseph's Mom, don't give up!!!  There are quite a few reputable sellers listed in this thread, good pins and the sellers are good to work with too!!  I hope you're able to get some pins for your DS to trade!


----------



## thelionqueen

joseph'smom said:


> I wasn't as worried about the cost as much as I was worried that the CM on the ship would already have the pins we would purchase on the ship.  I think I will go to the Disney store and buy him some.  Do you know of any that are not common on the cruiseline?  I'd like for him to have some that the CM on board wouldn't already have...I am going to contact the seller right now.  There is only one "obvious" scrapper, but I went to the pinpics website, and I don't even see these pins on there...they have the "official" markings, but now I know that doesn't mean a thing.  What a shame!



CM's lanyards are stocked directly from Disney.  While there are likely to be duplicates no matter how or where you trade (ship or otherwise) I'm pretty sure you will be surprised at the volume and variety the CM's have.  Especially on the cruise (from what I've read) they rotate more frequently and I've not heard of any complaints thus far.  

Also keep in mind that the authentic "hidden mickey" pins are not available for guests to purchase, they come directly from Disney and directly to CM's for this purpose.  I wouldn't worry about the variety at all, they take that into account when stocking the CM's lanyards.  Sometimes, they even switch out complete lanyards during a shift (happened more in years past than recently, but has happened).  ENJOY!!!


----------



## MountNittany

joseph'smom said:


> Thanks!  I will do just that.  Does BBBC stand for bibbidy--blah blah blah?  B/c that's who I got them from!!!  I don't  mind paying reg. price for a few - e's just 6 yrsold and I just want to create fun memories. I didn't even realize how exp. they really are- I assumed the more exp ones were just rare.
> 
> I really hate that this has happened to a hobby so many people are passionate about.



Yep! They are awful. I believe 90% or more Scrappers


----------



## MountNittany

pixiewings71 said:


> Yup, BBBC is Bibbidi Bobbidi Boutique Collectibles.  The more I read the more I'm sure I'll be returning these!! lol
> 
> *Mt Nittany, I've ordered from mubunny and been happy.  The past few times I've check her page she hasn't had anything up.  *
> 
> Joseph's Mom, don't give up!!!  There are quite a few reputable sellers listed in this thread, good pins and the sellers are good to work with too!!  I hope you're able to get some pins for your DS to trade!



I'm glad! I hope I get some winners.


----------



## amberg@eastlink.ca

thanks for the link to mouse pins!!! ive been collecting for awhile but have only ever traded twice in the parks.  a couple i had duplicates of.  is anything safe to buy on mousepins or are there certain sellers etc to buy from?  ive noticed there are lots listed of 25 or so, but like you guys i dont want to buy scrappers.  this is dd's first dis trip and shes already claimed my ariel pin!  lol  so i figured this may be something shed like to start!


----------



## joseph'smom

Thanks everyone for your advice.  I've now been scammed twice today...once by BBB and now by the govenor of my state (SC)....look on the news...any news....and you'll see what I mean...

I've just called a friend who is buying some for him from a Disney store and shipping them to me...


----------



## thelionqueen

joseph'smom said:


> Thanks everyone for your advice.  I've now been scammed twice today...once by BBB and now by the govenor of my state (SC)....look on the news...any news....and you'll see what I mean...
> 
> I've just called a friend who is buying some for him from a Disney store and shipping them to me...



I'm glad you've got pins coming..WOOT WOOT

As for the Governor, what a moron, you should be glad he's stepped down!  I never understood how people who rise so high on education and integrity can fall so low by just being plain stupid


----------



## pixiewings71

mousepins is a good seller, I've ordered from him a lot in the past and been happy.  BUT be aware that you will receive Propins.  Now, while I like them there are a lot of "serious collector traders" that won't take them as trades.  CMs will but a lot of "regular" traders won't.  You will exceptions of course but as a general guideline just be aware of that.  I haven't read the news so don't know what your governor did but I'm sorry you're feeling scammed.


----------



## amberg@eastlink.ca

thanks!!!  what on earth is a propin?  all ive ever bought have been at dis or from the disney store- i just buy what i like and while i am a big collector- im not oh my god i have to have that one serious.  i save that for my barbie collection!!!



pixiewings71 said:


> mousepins is a good seller, I've ordered from him a lot in the past and been happy.  BUT be aware that you will receive Propins.  Now, while I like them there are a lot of "serious collector traders" that won't take them as trades.  CMs will but a lot of "regular" traders won't.  You will exceptions of course but as a general guideline just be aware of that.  I haven't read the news so don't know what your governor did but I'm sorry you're feeling scammed.


----------



## joseph'smom

pixiewings71 said:


> mousepins is a good seller, I've ordered from him a lot in the past and been happy.  BUT be aware that you will receive Propins.  Now, while I like them there are a lot of "serious collector traders" that won't take them as trades.  CMs will but a lot of "regular" traders won't.  You will exceptions of course but as a general guideline just be aware of that.  I haven't read the news so don't know what your governor did but I'm sorry you're feeling scammed.




He told everyone he was hiking alone in the NC mtns. but he was really hiking up a lady's skirt in Argentina...


----------



## CarolinaGirlTiss

joseph'smom, where are you from in SC? I am in SC too (although right now I am on vacation in NC at the Outer Banks). Right before I left I got my pins from thewill (I think that's his name). They looked to be legit after checking them out but since I didn't have time to check them out completely I haven't left feedback yet. We leave two weeks from Saturday for our trip to Disney. The kids are pretty excited about pin trading even though they are older, they have never traded before.

Oh and the governor thing....I was shocked when I cut on the news today. What a black eye for our state. He didn't resign as Governor yet, did he?


----------



## joseph'smom

CarolinaGirlTiss said:


> joseph'smom, where are you from in SC? I am in SC too (although right now I am on vacation in NC at the Outer Banks). Right before I left I got my pins from thewill (I think that's his name). They looked to be legit after checking them out but since I didn't have time to check them out completely I haven't left feedback yet. We leave two weeks from Saturday for our trip to Disney. The kids are pretty excited about pin trading even though they are older, they have never traded before.
> 
> Oh and the governor thing....I was shocked when I cut on the news today. What a black eye for our state. He didn't resign as Governor yet, did he?



I live at Lake Murray (Lex.)...I am actually going to the beach (Garden City) and I think there is a Disney Store somewhere down there.

No,Sanford didn't resign...the State paper is now posting the emails between him and his gal.  Wish my husband sent me emails like that.  WOW- they are HOT...but so sad for his family...I hate it for them...


----------



## pixiewings71

amberg@eastlink.ca said:


> thanks!!!  what on earth is a propin?  all ive ever bought have been at dis or from the disney store- i just buy what i like and while i am a big collector- im not oh my god i have to have that one serious.  i save that for my barbie collection!!!



Propins are just pins that are made differently.  Disney does not accept Sedesma, Euro and something else as traders, Propins are fine tho.  They aren't as high quality as "standard" Disney pins but they are perfectly tradeable with CMs, I just wanted to give you a heads up about them just in case some jerky trader made you upset. LOL  



joseph'smom said:


> He told everyone he was hiking alone in the NC mtns. but he was really hiking up a lady's skirt in Argentina...


----------



## MountNittany

OMG! BBBC is no longer registered on Ebay!



> eBay Note: This user is no longer registered on eBay.



!


----------



## thelionqueen

MountNittany said:


> OMG! BBBC is no longer registered on Ebay!
> 
> 
> 
> !



GREAT NEWS!!!  MAYBE, just MAYBE what we are doing is having an impact???

Good job everyone, this is the best news I've heard all day!!!!!!!!


----------



## MountNittany

thelionqueen said:


> GREAT NEWS!!!  MAYBE, just MAYBE what we are doing is having an impact???
> 
> Good job everyone, this is the best news I've heard all day!!!!!!!!



She never left me feedback


----------



## Tammylynn

Just to check in--Mousepinsonline hasn't sent any of you a scrapper?  Or at least not an unreasonable amout of scrappers?

I think I might order a set from them to avoid the stress of deciphering which pins may be scrappers, etc. 

My concern is that the pins go for a really low price--$2/pin.  I keep reading "You get what you pay for".  I want to make sure Mousepins is better than the scrapper sellers on e-bay who sell for $1.90/pin?


----------



## MountNittany

Tammylynn said:


> Just to check in--Mousepinsonline hasn't sent any of you a scrapper?  Or at least not an unreasonable amout of scrappers?
> 
> I think I might order a set from them to avoid the stress of deciphering which pins may be scrappers, etc.
> 
> My concern is that the pins go for a really low price--$2/pin.  I keep reading "You get what you pay for".  I want to make sure Mousepins is better than the scrapper sellers on e-bay who sell for $1.90/pin?



You may receive propins, but they are completely tradeable to CMs 

snowdog! blocked me! I believe that it is because BBBC told some sellers that I knew that she sold scrappers. Now all of the scrapper sellers are going to block me 

DON'T BUY FROM snowdog!


----------



## MountNittany

I created a thread for checking references before you buy. Please post if you have any names of good/bad sellers!


----------



## pixiewings71

I wonder if Snowdog & BBBC know each other....I have an order in for BBBC, what happens now if I have fakes????


----------



## MountNittany

pixiewings71 said:


> I wonder if Snowdog & BBBC know each other....I have an order in for BBBC, what happens now if I have fakes????



BBBC is no longer registered! What will you do? I think you should call ebay if it has not been shipped yet. You do have fakes, probably.


----------



## joseph'smom

thelionqueen said:


> GREAT NEWS!!!  MAYBE, just MAYBE what we are doing is having an impact???
> 
> Good job everyone, this is the best news I've heard all day!!!!!!!!



Hmmmm....I sent her/him a very long email last night.  My husband is a fraud manager for an ins. co. and he helped me write it....it was very good.  I wonder, just wonder, if this has anything to do with it.  good news:  no longer making $ selling fakes; Bad news:  I'll never get my $ back.  Lesson learned:  priceless...


----------



## MountNittany

joseph'smom said:


> Hmmmm....I sent her/him a very long email last night.  My husband is a fraud manager for an ins. co. and he helped me write it....it was very good.  I wonder, just wonder, if this has anything to do with it.  good news:  no longer making $ selling fakes; Bad news:  I'll never get my $ back.  Lesson learned:  priceless...



Thank you for doing that 

Contact ebay/paypal if you don't get your pins. I bet they will do something about it.


----------



## joseph'smom

MountNittany said:


> Thank you for doing that
> 
> Contact ebay/paypal if you don't get your pins. I bet they will do something about it.



Oh I got them yesterday...I think MAYBE one out of 15 is authentic...


----------



## MountNittany

joseph'smom said:


> Oh I got them yesterday...I think MAYBE one out of 15 is authentic...



Did you possibly get these?


> Here are the pics:
> 
> I got the Muppet Set with Ears
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a close-up of Gonzo
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I got the cute pirate set
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a close-up of Goofy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And I got some random pins
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a close-up of Mickey
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the backer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And this is the bag they each came in


----------



## pixiewings71

MountNittany said:


> BBBC is no longer registered! What will you do? I think you should call ebay if it has not been shipped yet. You do have fakes, probably.



They've been shipped, there's a tracking number attached in my Paypal, if they are fake I'll file w/Paypal and see about getting a refund, I'm assuming they will be but it really sucks that they are gone now.  If Paypal won't refund me I used my CC and they will.  



joseph'smom said:


> Hmmmm....I sent her/him a very long email last night.  My husband is a fraud manager for an ins. co. and he helped me write it....it was very good.  I wonder, just wonder, if this has anything to do with it.  good news:  no longer making $ selling fakes; Bad news:  I'll never get my $ back.  Lesson learned:  priceless...



Ohhhh I would LOVE to know what he wrote! LOL


----------



## MountNittany

pixiewings71 said:


> *Ohhhh I would LOVE to know what he wrote! LOL*


Yes please share


----------



## joseph'smom

MountNittany said:


> Did you possibly get these?



YEP!  I got many of those same ones...especially the Muppets ones.  And the Snow White.

Everyone I got has that Hidden Mickey on it..


----------



## MountNittany

joseph'smom said:


> YEP!  I got many of those same ones...especially the Muppets ones.  And the Snow White.
> 
> Everyone I got has that Hidden Mickey on it..



What hidden mickey 

They are undoubtedly all scrappers then. She must have thousands of sets of the exact same 20 scrappers


----------



## MountNittany

BBBC told me this:


> Hi
> My account was hacked and it will be up and running today later on.
> thanks



I hope she's lying.


----------



## CarolinaGirlTiss

I have a question for all of you that may know. There is a series of tinkerbell pins that feature her and it looks like she is in a cloud. I think these were given out by CMs who saw someone doing a good deed, maybe in sets of two...one to wear and one to share? I think there are four different ones in this series and I am guessing these were not for sale. My question is, is this a set of pins that has been duplicated by a scrapper much? I have seen these for sale individually and in groups and was just wondering if these were pins that were risky to buy.


----------



## MountNittany

CarolinaGirlTiss said:


> I have a question for all of you that may know. There is a series of tinkerbell pins that feature her and it looks like she is in a cloud. I think these were given out by CMs who saw someone doing a good deed, maybe in sets of two...one to wear and one to share? I think there are four different ones in this series and I am guessing these were not for sale. My question is, is this a set of pins that has been duplicated by a scrapper much? I have seen these for sale individually and in groups and was just wondering if these were pins that were risky to buy.



Is it any of these?
http://pinpics.com/cgi-bin/pin.cgi?pin=56591&sid=1003.1246044131.v2
http://pinpics.com/cgi-bin/pin.cgi?pin=68054&sid=1003.1246044131.v2
http://pinpics.com/img/p499/pin24963
http://pinpics.com/cgi-bin/pin.cgi?pin=41899&sid=1003.1246044131.v2
http://pinpics.com/cgi-bin/pin.cgi?pin=39082&sid=1003.1246044131.v2
http://pinpics.com/cgi-bin/pin.cgi?pin=39083&sid=1003.1246044131.v2
http://pinpics.com/cgi-bin/pin.cgi?pin=50070&sid=1003.1246044131.v2
http://pinpics.com/cgi-bin/pin.cgi?pin=56395&sid=1003.1246044131.v2


----------



## CarolinaGirlTiss

Yes, the last two are examples of what I am talking about. I traded for one the last time we were in the park but only got the one and would like to complete my collection. We are going back in two weeks and I will try then to complete it but if I am unable to I was wondering what the chances are of me getting fakes or scrappers if I purchased these off of ebay. Are these ones that are known to have scrappers out there?


----------



## MountNittany

CarolinaGirlTiss said:


> Yes, the last two are examples of what I am talking about. I traded for one the last time we were in the park but only got the one and would like to complete my collection. We are going back in two weeks and I will try then to complete it but if I am unable to I was wondering what the chances are of me getting fakes or scrappers if I purchased these off of ebay. Are these ones that are known to have scrappers out there?



Those are pins from the Dream Squad! They were gifts for YOAMD (Year of a Million Dreams). They were given out by random selection. I bet that they have been duplicated, since they were from YOAMD. I have no experience with these pins, so I would suggest waiting for pixiewings or lionqueen for this one.


----------



## Jen M

So I wanted to check out snowdog just for fun. I don't ever remember seeing that name when I was looking on ebay. I did a seller search for snowdog and the name was not found. Hopefully that is a good thing.


----------



## MountNittany

It's snowdog! with the !


----------



## MountNittany

BBBC is back...


----------



## Jen M

MountNittany said:


> It's snowdog! with the !



thanks. I will have to take a look. It is crappy that BBBC is back.


----------



## DisneyTreasurePins

I will be posting a Pick Your own lot all my pins are Official Rack Pins.Doesn't hurt to take a look.


----------



## pixiewings71

I have not seen any of the YOAMD Tink pins scrapped.....I did see a lot of scrappers last weekend tho.   I think those might be OK, but without seeing them I can't say for sure.  We have a lot of those pins, I have a set, my girls each have a set, I wonder if I have any extras.....if I do I'll post here that I have them, maybe we can work out a trade of some kind?


----------



## Jen M

So I need alittle help. I got my pins from mousepins today. One had what looked like burn marks on the back and I think I got alot of euro pins. I got some that had the imprint of mickey's head on the backs and wasn't sure if they are real. I also got one that said disneyland paris I am assuming this is a euro pin. Can they be traded in Florida?


----------



## pixiewings71

Disneyland Paris pins are not Euro pins, mousepins does not sell Euro's, they do sell propins.  I'm not sure what you mean by the imprint of mickey heads on the backs, a lot of pins now have mickey heads stamped into the metal, is that what you mean?  It's hard to say about the burn marks, I've seen a few of those and usually don't do the trade because I'm unsure.  If you are unsure you should just contact them and see what they say about it.


----------



## Jen M

pixiewings71 said:


> Disneyland Paris pins are not Euro pins, mousepins does not sell Euro's, they do sell propins.  I'm not sure what you mean by the imprint of mickey heads on the backs, a lot of pins now have mickey heads stamped into the metal, is that what you mean?  It's hard to say about the burn marks, I've seen a few of those and usually don't do the trade because I'm unsure.  If you are unsure you should just contact them and see what they say about it.



Thanks. Yes I meant mickey heads stamped into the metal. I was going to send them an email but wanted to wait until I had the answer to the paris pins. 

Thanks so much. I have learned alot from the people on this thread.


----------



## MountNittany

Jen M said:


> Thanks. Yes I meant mickey heads stamped into the metal. I was going to send them an email but wanted to wait until I had the answer to the paris pins.
> 
> Thanks so much. I have learned alot from the people on this thread.



The mickey head is the official logo... Not sure if I understand what you mean.


----------



## amberg@eastlink.ca

could someone enlighten me as to what "propins" are?  ive been collecting for awhile, but only in the parks or at a disney store.


----------



## Jen M

MountNittany said:


> The mickey head is the official logo... Not sure if I understand what you mean.



I tried to take a picture but it didn't turn out. I know all the pins have the mickey head on the back but I have a few that are dated 2009 and instead of having a flat back or slightly textured back they have a pattern of mickey's head on the back along with all the info that the others have. I wasn't sure if that was something new for 2009.


----------



## pixiewings71

The ones with the Mickey Heads all over the back are newer but they are being scrapped too.  A good way to tell with those is the mickey heads should go completely to the edge and off the edge of the pin, some of the scrappers I've seen have a "rim" around the back where the heads stop.  

Amber Propins are pins that are made cheaper than the standard enamel cloissonne pins are.  They are smooth where the higher quality pins are slightly rough.  It's hard to explain but if you saw them side by side you'd know the difference.


----------



## amberg@eastlink.ca

thanks pixie!!! 



pixiewings71 said:


> The ones with the Mickey Heads all over the back are newer but they are being scrapped too.  A good way to tell with those is the mickey heads should go completely to the edge and off the edge of the pin, some of the scrappers I've seen have a "rim" around the back where the heads stop.
> 
> Amber Propins are pins that are made cheaper than the standard enamel cloissonne pins are.  They are smooth where the higher quality pins are slightly rough.  It's hard to explain but if you saw them side by side you'd know the difference.


----------



## Jen M

pixiewings71 said:


> The ones with the Mickey Heads all over the back are newer but they are being scrapped too.  A good way to tell with those is the mickey heads should go completely to the edge and off the edge of the pin, some of the scrappers I've seen have a "rim" around the back where the heads stop.
> QUOTE]
> 
> Thanks. I will have to double check but I believe the pins have do not have an edge on them. I also got in touch with the guy at mousepins about the pins that had damage/burn marks on the back and he said to send them back and he would replace them.


----------



## MountNittany

Jen M said:


> pixiewings71 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The ones with the Mickey Heads all over the back are newer but they are being scrapped too.  A good way to tell with those is the mickey heads should go completely to the edge and off the edge of the pin, some of the scrappers I've seen have a "rim" around the back where the heads stop.
> QUOTE]
> 
> Thanks. I will have to double check but I believe the pins have do not have an edge on them. I also got in touch with the guy at mousepins about the pins that had damage/burn marks on the back and he said to send them back and he would replace them.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, I understand now.
Click to expand...


----------



## CarolinaGirlTiss

When comparing my pins to some of the pins on pinpics I have a few questions. I am not sure how to say this to make it make sense. The trimming on the pins, not the outside edges but the outline around the picture in the pin is in gold but on the ones on pinpics, many of these look black in their outline. I don't know if this is because of the way the picture was taken, if this is an earlier edition of the same pin (some of them do have different years for the same pin), or if I have fake pins on my hands. I don't think they are fake because I do know that legitimate pins I have bought myself from Disney do have the gold outline. Does anyone know if these pins just look trimmed in black because of the way the camera shot them or are these earlier editions? Does any of that make any sense?


----------



## pixiewings71

Jen M said:


> pixiewings71 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The ones with the Mickey Heads all over the back are newer but they are being scrapped too.  A good way to tell with those is the mickey heads should go completely to the edge and off the edge of the pin, some of the scrappers I've seen have a "rim" around the back where the heads stop.
> QUOTE]
> 
> Thanks. I will have to double check but I believe the pins have do not have an edge on them. I also got in touch with the guy at mousepins about the pins that had damage/burn marks on the back and he said to send them back and he would replace them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm glad the guy at MP is being helpful, he's always been great with me.
> 
> 
> 
> CarolinaGirlTiss said:
> 
> 
> 
> When comparing my pins to some of the pins on pinpics I have a few questions. I am not sure how to say this to make it make sense. The trimming on the pins, not the outside edges but the outline around the picture in the pin is in gold but on the ones on pinpics, many of these look black in their outline. I don't know if this is because of the way the picture was taken, if this is an earlier edition of the same pin (some of them do have different years for the same pin), or if I have fake pins on my hands. I don't think they are fake because I do know that legitimate pins I have bought myself from Disney do have the gold outline. Does anyone know if these pins just look trimmed in black because of the way the camera shot them or are these earlier editions? Does any of that make any sense?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's hard to say, many times the photos are just darker than the actual pin is.  Sometimes on pinpics the notes will say what color the back should be, usually the rim is the same color as the back. hth!
Click to expand...


----------



## CarolinaGirlTiss

Hey pixiewings, This is not the rim of the pin I am talking about but the actual outline of the character within the pin. Almost like the outline of a coloring picture in a coloring book. Does that make sense at all? When I go to pinpics it looks like this outline is done in black but when I am looking at the pin mine is done in gold.


----------



## MountNittany

GREAT NEWS! BBBC changed their name to pinsdirect. They are no longer registered again, and I got this email from eBay!



> Our records show that you recently received an email from pinsdirect through the Ask Seller a Question or Contact eBay Member features. This email may be fraudulent and an attempt to do one of the following:
> 
> - Obtain your eBay password
> - Gain access to your eBay account
> - Use your eBay account for fraudulent activity
> - Set up an outside-of-eBay transaction which may be fraudulent
> 
> This kind of email is often called a "phish" or "phishing attempt," and the people who send them are known as "phishers." Phishers use these methods to try to get your personal information, such as user names, passwords and credit card details. Because the emails may sometimes come through the eBay system, the phisher may seem to be trustworthy and have a good reason to contact you.



So, they probably tried to phish someone else's information, and they are no longer registered because of it! Yay!


----------



## pixiewings71

CarolinaGirlTiss said:


> Hey pixiewings, This is not the rim of the pin I am talking about but the actual outline of the character within the pin. Almost like the outline of a coloring picture in a coloring book. Does that make sense at all? When I go to pinpics it looks like this outline is done in black but when I am looking at the pin mine is done in gold.



Oh I got it.  What pin do you have? Can you post a link to the pinpic page for me?



MountNittany said:


> GREAT NEWS! BBBC changed their name to pinsdirect. They are no longer registered again, and I got this email from eBay!
> 
> 
> 
> So, they probably tried to phish someone else's information, and they are no longer registered because of it! Yay!



Oh good Lord.....I had a feeling they were changing their name......I need to check my ebay email to see what I've received from them regarding their pins......I did get my order, got almost exactly what you did MtNittany with a couple different ones.  I promptly set them aside but haven't done anything about it yet, they do smell funny don't they?


----------



## MountNittany

pixiewings71 said:


> Oh good Lord.....I had a feeling they were changing their name......I need to check my ebay email to see what I've received from them regarding their pins......I did get my order, got almost exactly what you did MtNittany with a couple different ones.  I promptly set them aside but haven't done anything about it yet, they do smell funny don't they?



They do smell funny...


----------



## CarolinaGirlTiss

I am not sure how to post a link but will give it a try. This is one of the pins I am talking about but there are others. If you look at this pictures it looks like the words Walt Disney World are written in black, on my pin they are written in gold. It does note that this pin is from 2000 and my pins is stamped 2005 so maybe that is the reason for the difference. I am just trying to figure out if my pins are legit. I am having trouble finding some of them on pinpics. Everything on my pin looks the exact same its just trimmed in gold and not black.

Here is the link...
http://www.pinpics.com/cgi-bin/pin.cgi?pin=374&sid=5525.1246467854

credit given to pinpics for the links

Here is another example from pinpics...

http://www.pinpics.com/cgi-bin/pin.cgi?pin=50460&sid=5572.1246468141

and a picture of the same pin that I have, note the gold outline......
<a href="http://s131.photobucket.com/albums/p289/MissTissy/?action=view&current=DSCN0087.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p289/MissTissy/DSCN0087.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
 I am thinking that it might be the way the pin was angled or possibly just from the camera being used but I don't know for sure.


----------



## CarolinaGirlTiss

Well I was trying to embed that last picture but that didn't work so here is the link....

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p289/MissTissy/DSCN0087.jpg

Hope that works


----------



## MountNittany

CarolinaGirlTiss said:


> I am not sure how to post a link but will give it a try. This is one of the pins I am talking about but there are others. If you look at this pictures it looks like the words Walt Disney World are written in black, on my pin they are written in gold. It does note that this pin is from 2000 and my pins is stamped 2005 so maybe that is the reason for the difference. I am just trying to figure out if my pins are legit. I am having trouble finding some of them on pinpics. Everything on my pin looks the exact same its just trimmed in gold and not black.
> 
> Here is the link...
> http://www.pinpics.com/cgi-bin/pin.cgi?pin=374&sid=5525.1246467854
> 
> credit given to pinpics for the links
> 
> Here is another example from pinpics...
> 
> http://www.pinpics.com/cgi-bin/pin.cgi?pin=50460&sid=5572.1246468141
> 
> and a picture of the same pin that I have, note the gold outline......
> <a href="http://s131.photobucket.com/albums/p289/MissTissy/?action=view&current=DSCN0087.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p289/MissTissy/DSCN0087.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
> I am thinking that it might be the way the pin was angled or possibly just from the camera being used but I don't know for sure.


You tried to use HTML code for that picture . We use BBCode on forums. It's the one on Photobucket with the [img][/img] tags.


----------



## CarolinaGirlTiss

This one?


----------



## CarolinaGirlTiss

Thanks MountNittany, I am use to posting on the ebay threads where they use HTML so I figured it might be the same over here. Now I know better! Can you see how Mickey is outlined in gold? Several of the pins I know are legit (cause I bought them at WDW myself) are outlined like that so I am thinking this pin and the other are okay just maybe later editions of what is posted? I can post more pictures of the pins I received if anyone is interested in looking at them.


----------



## jmkford4

I would encourage anyone who bought from this seller (or her new ID pinsdirect) to file a claim through paypal. Then you should file a claim through ebay that you believe that the pins are counterfeit and why. 

She has replied to my request for a refund and was totally rude. I responded as I should, however, being an HONEST powerseller myself. It disheartens me greatly that people like her are ruining the reputation of ebay for the rest of us honest powersellers. 

Just a snippet from ebay about this:
*
Obligations when a buyer opens a claim alleging an item is counterfeit:*

    *

      Sellers shall work with the buyer in good faith during the resolution process to provide buyer with appropriate documentation or other assurances to satisfy the buyer that the item is not counterfeit, if such information is available.
    *

      If buyer and seller cannot agree that the item is not counterfeit, for covered claims that meet the conditions and are not excluded, buyers are required to send the item back to the seller. Cost of return shipping will be paid by the buyer or eBay in our sole discretion, unless otherwise agreed upon by the buyer and seller.
    *

      Covered claims that meet the conditions and are not excluded will count as a violation by the seller of our prohibited and infringing items policy.
    *

      Sellers shall not list, advertise, or cause that item to appear for sale, barter or trade, on any eBay Inc. (including our subsidiaries, joint ventures, and other members of the group) web site or service located around the world.
    *

      While buyers are not obligated to provide third party confirmation that an item is counterfeit in order to open a claim, in cases where there is written confirmation from the manufacturer that the item is counterfeit, or in additional circumstances where eBay elects to exercise its discretion, eBay may request the destruction of the item by an authorized third party and at eBays expense.

I hope this helps someone else. When you file a claim through paypal, they will hold her funds. It is a good chance people will get their money back.


----------



## MountNittany

jmkford4 said:


> I would encourage anyone who bought from this seller (or her new ID pinsdirect) to file a claim through paypal. Then you should file a claim through ebay that you believe that the pins are counterfeit and why.
> 
> She has replied to my request for a refund and was totally rude. I responded as I should, however, being an HONEST powerseller myself. It disheartens me greatly that people like her are ruining the reputation of ebay for the rest of us honest powersellers.
> 
> Just a snippet from ebay about this:
> *
> Obligations when a buyer opens a claim alleging an item is counterfeit:*
> 
> *
> 
> Sellers shall work with the buyer in good faith during the resolution process to provide buyer with appropriate documentation or other assurances to satisfy the buyer that the item is not counterfeit, if such information is available.
> *
> 
> If buyer and seller cannot agree that the item is not counterfeit, for covered claims that meet the conditions and are not excluded, buyers are required to send the item back to the seller. Cost of return shipping will be paid by the buyer or eBay in our sole discretion, unless otherwise agreed upon by the buyer and seller.
> *
> 
> Covered claims that meet the conditions and are not excluded will count as a violation by the seller of our prohibited and infringing items policy.
> *
> 
> Sellers shall not list, advertise, or cause that item to appear for sale, barter or trade, on any eBay Inc. (including our subsidiaries, joint ventures, and other members of the group) web site or service located around the world.
> *
> 
> While buyers are not obligated to provide third party confirmation that an item is counterfeit in order to open a claim, in cases where there is written confirmation from the manufacturer that the item is counterfeit, or in additional circumstances where eBay elects to exercise its discretion, eBay may request the destruction of the item by an authorized third party and at eBays expense.
> 
> I hope this helps someone else. When you file a claim through paypal, they will hold her funds. It is a good chance people will get their money back.


Thank you very much! I know that they are all counterfit. 

I have decided to just keep my pins, because my sister really likes 15 of them. I will just keep the remaining 5. I do encourage other people to file a claim though. She was very rude to me also. It's awful how many people are fooled by her. Look, 98% positive feedback.


----------



## jackskellingtonsgirl

Just a note about pins in photos - I know a lot of times things that are silver will appear black in pics.  Where that becomes a problem is with things like eye pupils and such where they are SUPPOSED to be black but are actually silver (scrapper).  

I agree 100% that scrappers have a strange odor.  Kind of like oily/petrol/chemical.  All of the scrappers we have received had the exact same smell to them.


----------



## heatherbabydoll1

Please who out there is not selling scrappers that do still have good deals? I am trying to get some pins for my family and my sister-in-laws family so we can trade in our up coming trip. We love to trade just for the fun of it. Money is real tight and I need about 70 pins just to start everyone out but can't afford a ton of money, any ideas?


----------



## DisneyTreasurePins

Well all the pins I sell are Official and I am on eBay. They also have another post for Good/Bad Sellers I am not on there yet.But when you do see me I will be under Good

Chris


----------



## MountNittany

DisneyTreasurePins said:


> Well all the pins I sell are Official and I am on eBay. They also have another post for Good/Bad Sellers I am not on there yet.But when you do see me I will be under Good
> 
> Chris



I would love to add you to Good, Chris, but I cannot do it just because you posted on the Dis. As soon as somebody purchases from you, and verifies that you sell good pins, I will add you to the list. I have already purchased my traders for this year from other reliable sellers . Sorry


----------



## DisneyTreasurePins

I completely understand I will just have to wait


----------



## pixiewings71

jackskellingtonsgirl said:


> Just a note about pins in photos - I know a lot of times things that are silver will appear black in pics.  Where that becomes a problem is with things like eye pupils and such where they are SUPPOSED to be black but are actually silver (scrapper).
> 
> I agree 100% that scrappers have a strange odor.  Kind of like oily/petrol/chemical.  All of the scrappers we have received had the exact same smell to them.



Exactly!!!!! That's what they smell like!!  I hope Paypal is being better about counterfeits, the last 2 times I tried to file with them they denied my claims because I couldn't prove they were fakes.    Anyway, I haven't decided yet because my girls were saying they liked the Muppets w/ears so I may give them to them.  And yes, as you said the silver does appear black in photos.  

Carolina Girl, they do rerelease pins, I've thought I've had scrappers before and it turned out they were fine, they were just rereleased so don't write them off just yet, they could be legit.  



DisneyTreasurePins said:


> Well all the pins I sell are Official and I am on eBay. They also have another post for Good/Bad Sellers I am not on there yet.But when you do see me I will be under Good
> 
> Chris





MountNittany said:


> I would love to add you to Good, Chris, but I cannot do it just because you posted on the Dis. As soon as somebody purchases from you, and verifies that you sell good pins, I will add you to the list. I have already purchased my traders for this year from other reliable sellers . Sorry





DisneyTreasurePins said:


> I completely understand I will just have to wait



fyi, I ordered from Chris last night and so far so good.....  Chris is shipping to my HOTEL because we think there isn't enough time to get them to me at home before we head out next week.    With the holiday we thought better safe than sorry.  So far I'm very impressed with his willingness to work with me and shipping to a hotel.  The pins will be delivered after I'm gone next week but when I get back there will be a full report.  I fully expect we will be adding him to the good sellers list.


----------



## pixiewings71

Oh BTW, I also ordered from gold and will report back when I get those.  I won't get them until after our vacation I'm sure but I will report back.


----------



## CarolinaGirlTiss

I was thinking about ordering from Chris as well but was wondering if he would take requests. Not for a specific pin but for a specific character? Even if he doesn't I may just order one anyway. His prices are very reasonable. 

Pixie you will be at Disney next weekend? We are going the 1th -18th  but haven't decided what days we will be in Disney. As of now we are only planning two days there, one at WDW and one at HS. We are also doing Universal Studios for the first time and going to Sea World. I am trying to convince my DH we need to extend our stay so we can at least hit AK. When we went in April we visited all the parks and the only one he didn't really care for was Epcot. I think I might have him convinced to stay a few extra days though.


----------



## pixiewings71

CarolinaGirlTiss said:


> I was thinking about ordering from Chris as well but was wondering if he would take requests. Not for a specific pin but for a specific character? Even if he doesn't I may just order one anyway. His prices are very reasonable.
> 
> Pixie you will be at Disney next weekend? We are going the 1th -18th  but haven't decided what days we will be in Disney. As of now we are only planning two days there, one at WDW and one at HS. We are also doing Universal Studios for the first time and going to Sea World. I am trying to convince my DH we need to extend our stay so we can at least hit AK. When we went in April we visited all the parks and the only one he didn't really care for was Epcot. I think I might have him convinced to stay a few extra days though.



I didn't make any requests for certain pins, I just bought 50 traders.  PM him and ask, that's what I did.   Yes, we leave next Wed and will be there the 8-12th, but we are going to DL not WDW.  DL is 6 hours from home so we can just drive......we were there last weekend too! lol  Yes, we are insanely addicted......

I just found another seller who states on their auction page "NO SCRAPPERS" so I put in a bid......I'll report back on them as well.  The good thing about this is I'll have enough traders for at least 2 trips to DL.  lol


----------



## CarolinaGirlTiss

I hope to one day visit DL, do they have only the one park or are their multiple parks there too? I know very little about that side of the United States. WDW is about a six - seven hour drive from our house. I am hoping that next year my whole family will be able to go...both brothers and families, my sister, and my Mom. I want to rent a house or condo. I think it would be so much fun!


----------



## MountNittany

I got all of my pins today! I believe that 14 out of 15 are real! I will post pictures today.


----------



## pixiewings71

2 parks, DL and CA Adventure.  Wait until 2012, they are doing a lot of work in DCA right now and it's supposed to be done in 2012.  There are houses for rent in the area or great hotels within walking distance.  It's a lot smaller area so no need to ride busses to hop or to even stay on site, the parks are a walk of under 1 minute apart. lol  It's very different!! I hope you're able to make it sometime, if you are ready to plan drop by the DL boards for ideas.


----------



## MountNittany

From mubunny:













From gyantzpod:





I have a question also...
Has anyone ever seen lettering like this on the back? They are both HKDL Pins. Does anyone have any HKDL pins? If so, could you please look at you pin and compare the lettering?


----------



## CarolinaGirlTiss

Oh my a new pin I have to hunt for. I love love love that Minnie dressed as Tinkerbell, have to have it. My husband is gonna kill me! Off to look for it.


----------



## pixiewings71

So I checked the other sellers feedback a bit more (the one I mentioned that says NO SCRAPPERS) and it would appear that they are buying pins from other sellers and then selling them...I wish I'd realized that BEFORE I bid on 2 lots.  Oh well, it's not that much that I will be out if they are bad.   He does have a 30 day money back guarantee so that's good to know.  One of the people he bought from was pinsdirect, another one was nanub.....both sellers I don't want anything to do with.


----------



## CarolinaGirlTiss

Well I took a chance and bid on a huge lot from a girl in Germany. They were all pictured and to me it looked like she was just getting rid of her collection (she didn't have any others listed and hasn't sold any in the past). I am hoping what I am getting is legit but there is no telling, she could have bought hers from scrappers in the past. Time will tell and if they aren't legit then I will file a SNAD and get my money back returning the pins. If they are legit then I got a heck of a deal because I paid less than a dollar a pin. I don't think they will get here before our trip but I can always trade them on future trips if not. 

Pixiewings I hope you get good ones, if not I would return them and get my money back.


----------



## MountNittany

I hope you get good pins, pixie.

Is there a new backstamp style this year? My Donald Celebrate Everyday pin has a different logo and it has Mickey Heads stamped on it from end to end. It also could be that it is different because it is a First Edition


----------



## amberg@eastlink.ca

mountnittany, who did you buy from???




MountNittany said:


> From mubunny:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From gyantzpod:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a question also...
> Has anyone ever seen lettering like this on the back? They are both HKDL Pins. Does anyone have any HKDL pins? If so, could you please look at you pin and compare the lettering?


----------



## MountNittany

amberg@eastlink.ca said:


> mountnittany, who did you buy from???


The names listed above the pictures 

mubunny, mythings4001, and gyantzpod


----------



## amberg@eastlink.ca

oops!  my bad- i jsut looked at the pics and not the names!  lol



MountNittany said:


> The names listed above the pictures
> 
> mubunny, mythings4001, and gyantzpod


----------



## MountNittany

BTW: If you want Disney pin backers that actually work, buy these! The little bar on them to pull off is kinda small, so they are difficult to remove from your lanyard, but your pins won't fall off!

http://eventservices.disney.go.com/pintrading/pin?id=13523





or

http://eventservices.disney.go.com/pintrading/pin?id=13522


----------



## pixiewings71

Those backers are so cute!!! I want the hand one for my Tink peeker.


----------



## CarolinaGirlTiss

I got a pin bag today that I got from the disneystore.com outlet area. Its has Jessica Rabbit on it. I was expecting a small bag (to be honest I didn't look at the measurements) but it is quite large and I think will hold many pins. I even get my name embroideried on it. Got it for 19.99 plus shipping. Not bad at all!


----------



## MountNittany

CarolinaGirlTiss said:


> I got a pin bag today that I got from the disneystore.com outlet area. Its has Jessica Rabbit on it. I was expecting a small bag (to be honest I didn't look at the measurements) but it is quite large and I think will hold many pins. I even get my name embroideried on it. Got it for 19.99 plus shipping. Not bad at all!



Nice! I have this one






$38


----------



## CarolinaGirlTiss

I like yours better, not a huge Jessica Rabbit fan but the price was right and since I got my name on it I really do like it.


----------



## pixiewings71

On Tuesday I ordered a lot of 50 from Pinderella's Castle, they were a BIN for $89.99 w/free shipping....I got them TODAY!!!!!!  and they all look 100% legit except for the toddler Jasmine which has weird eyes.....and I got 2 FREE lanyards with my order.  So, as far as I can tell these are 100% legit....!!!!!


----------



## MountNittany

pixiewings71 said:


> On Tuesday I ordered a lot of 50 from Pinderella's Castle, they were a BIN for $89.99 w/free shipping....I got them TODAY!!!!!!  and they all look 100% legit except for the toddler Jasmine which has weird eyes.....and I got 2 FREE lanyards with my order.  So, as far as I can tell these are 100% legit....!!!!!



Woot!

Added them to the list


----------



## CarolinaGirlTiss

These are some pins I have gotten from recent ebay transactions. I have the pins all mixed up as far as sellers go but I believe that everything I have gotten is legit. If anyone sees any they think I might need to question please let me know. These aren't nearly all the pins I have received, just some of them. I will look back and see what the names of the sellers are. One for sure was thewill.


----------



## abirdd

pixiewings71 said:


> On Tuesday I ordered a lot of 50 from Pinderella's Castle, they were a BIN for $89.99 w/free shipping....I got them TODAY!!!!!!  and they all look 100% legit except for the toddler Jasmine which has weird eyes.....and I got 2 FREE lanyards with my order.  So, as far as I can tell these are 100% legit....!!!!!



Just wanted to chime in, and say we've had really good pins from Pinderella's Castle on eBay.  So far, I've only had two questionable pins (out of 100+) - and I think it's more me being really picky than anything.  Many I picked out individually, others were from the small 25 pin grab bag with no duplicates.


----------



## abirdd

MountNittany said:


> Is there a new backstamp style this year? My Donald Celebrate Everyday pin has a different logo and it has Mickey Heads stamped on it from end to end. It also could be that it is different because it is a First Edition



Exactly what I came here to inquire about this evening.  Duncan received a pin for his birthday during our stay from a CM.  It's Mike and Sulley, and they are holding birthday balloons.  The back is covered in Mickey heads, and the logo is different.  I compared to a new Tink 2009 starter set pin - and again they are showing the new style. 

Is this the new back we should be looking for in 2009?  I'm almost wondering if Disney will change the backs annually to help combat the complaints...


----------



## pixiewings71

abirdd said:


> Just wanted to chime in, and say we've had really good pins from Pinderella's Castle on eBay.  So far, I've only had two questionable pins (out of 100+) - and I think it's more me being really picky than anything.  Many I picked out individually, others were from the small 25 pin grab bag with no duplicates.



Thanks for posting, I'm glad others have been happy with the pins received from Pindy, she was a very pleasant person to deal with also.  



abirdd said:


> Exactly what I came here to inquire about this evening.  Duncan received a pin for his birthday during our stay from a CM.  It's Mike and Sulley, and they are holding birthday balloons.  The back is covered in Mickey heads, and the logo is different.  I compared to a new Tink 2009 starter set pin - and again they are showing the new style.
> 
> Is this the new back we should be looking for in 2009?  I'm almost wondering if Disney will change the backs annually to help combat the complaints...



I wouldn't be averse to them using new backstamps every year and they do try to combat it by doing this.  The problem is that the scrappers are eventually able to get the new backstamps too, changing them yearly might really help.


----------



## amberg@eastlink.ca

i tried searing for pinderella's castle and it didnt come up as a seller.


----------



## Tammylynn

amberg@eastlink.ca said:


> i tried searing for pinderella's castle and it didnt come up as a seller.



Try pinderellas_castle as your search.


----------



## amberg@eastlink.ca

duh, of course, man i've been having some stupid moments as of late!!!  thanks!



Tammylynn said:


> Try pinderellas_castle as your search.


----------



## Jen M

Can anyone tell me if this is a good deal?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=200351159298#ebayphotohosting


----------



## thelionqueen

Jen M said:


> Can anyone tell me if this is a good deal?
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=200351159298#ebayphotohosting



Not a bad deal; they retail for $19.99 at the parks.  Cute pins and nice traders too!


----------



## junebugTN

Jen M said:


> Can anyone tell me if this is a good deal?
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=200351159298#ebayphotohosting



I have purchased from this seller several times, and I believe the pins have always been authentic.  Olivejuiceyou21 is one of the few sellers I trust to buy pins from on Ebay.  This looks like a good price to me, too!

June


----------



## Jen M

Thanks. I am thinking of ordering some from olivejuice and I thought they might be good to trade for that price. I am sure he will end up keeping them.


----------



## Tammylynn

DisneyTreasurePins said:


> Hello Pin Traders
> 
> I am new to the forum but have been pin trading for about 1 year now.My 4 year old daughter got me & wife started. I have a Ebay account and have started to sell only Official Disney Pins with the Back Cards that came with the pins.Please let me know what you think.
> 
> My Ebay name is MickeysTreasure .
> 
> Please do not waste your Time or Money on Junk Scrappers that look like they have been skated on.You get what you pay for.
> 
> Thank you
> Chris




I got my pins from mickeystreasure today.  Wowie!  I am so happy with them.  

I bought just 15 from the pick-your-lot ($3 each).  I requested Pirates, Nemo, and Star Wars, since those are the ones I collect.  Out of my 15 I got 2 Nemos and 4 Pirates-nearly half!

Several had a dangle, 3D and/or slider, which I've read are much more difficult to scrap.  None of mine were red-flagged on PinPics.  They all seem to be high quality.  

They all came with a Disney backing, which do not appear to be original from the pins.  This doesn't bother me, as I display mine on a cork board anyway.

I am so satisfied that I went back on to try to get some more but the seller has no current auctions!  I will definately try to buy from mickeystreasure again.


----------



## Jen M

TammyLynn that is great news. I ordered some pins from olivejuice21 the other day. I did find her a little slow with shipping. I am used to people shipping with a day after they get your money. She has had some negative feedback for shipping so time will tell.


----------



## MountNittany

I will add him to the list


----------



## pixiewings71

I received a few lots while we were gone.  I ordered 50 pins from Mickey Treasure and Chris shipped to my hotel, they arrived before I did! LOL  I got a call from the hotel on Monday saying they had a package for me, I let them know I wasn't expecting it quite so soon and had been planning on calling them that evening to alert them, they made a note on my reservation and held the box for me.  Inside were 50 GREAT pins for trading and some for keeping, he also included a couple little keychains which the girls promptly snagged! LOL  The pins all looked great and we had no problems at all trading them.  Thank You Chris, I will be back!!!!!!  

I also got some pins from Gold747 (I think, I will check again when I get home, no eBay at work) that were ALL scrappers!!!! I got a lot of 15, I will be contacting them tonight after work to let them know I am unhappy with my purchase and ask for a refund.  

I also ordered from 2 other sellers, 1 was only 2 pins, 1 was good, 1 is a scrapper, the other lot was only 5 pins but as far as I can see they are good!!  I'll update this post tonight after work and picking up meds for my kitty, she has a really nasty abscess on her back that showed up while we were gone.


----------



## MountNittany

I'll change gold to red, but I will be out until the 21st. If there is a change, please PM me.


----------



## pixiewings71

Ok so the 5 good pins came from etraderbay, they all look great actually.  2 of the pins are LE's, the others are just pins but will make good traders. 

The pins from Gold747 are definitely all scrappers.


----------



## pixiewings71

I contacted Gold last nite, he said he has no idea what I'm talking about but he will gladly take the return and issue a refund so he can RESELL the pins......   I let him know there was more than 1 way I could tell and if he'd like more info to let me know and I'd be happy to give him details, so......I'll be sending him more details tonight and returning the pins tomorrow.  These all look really bad tho, colors are off, weight is off, lots of divets, which really bums me out because there were some in the lot that I wanted to keep......but they are really bad scrappers so I won't.


----------



## florep1

delete


----------



## TeenaS

mubunny finally has some more pins up ... I normally buy from him and he hasn't had any for a long time.  I'm excited because I have some friends coming into town with kids that I'm making lanyards for so they can start pin trading.


----------



## MountNittany

Yep, I got an email today also. I think I bought one of the last lots he/she had before.


----------



## pixiewings71

Well, I got another small lot from gold, and many of them are bad.  I think he should stay on the yellow or go back to red.   
I also got some from domimgood and they are scrappers as well.    Actually I believe a few of them are OK but the majority are not.  

I'm glad that mubunny has more up, I'll go check it out.


----------



## WantToGoNow

I ordered a lot of 20 from Ebay from funmamas that came today. I looked each one up on PinPics and atleast 2/3 of them said there are possible scrappers and I found 4 that are definitely scrappers.   Now she (I'm assuming it's a she) did send 7 Chip & Dale pins because I sent her a note that I collected them.  It doesn't really matter to me that 2 of the Chip & Dales are scrappers because I won't be trading them anyway.


----------



## Jen M

All I can say is this sucks. I am so excited for my son to be able to trade pins this year but at the sametime I will be totally watching to see what he gets. I think it is said that something so fun can be ruined by scrappers. Oh well as long as he has fun trading.


----------



## pixiewings71

FYI we just got back from a quick weekend at DL and we were very surprised with the lack of scrappers on CM lanyards, we did a lot of trades and only received a few scrappers! YAY!!


----------



## thelionqueen

pixiewings71 said:


> FYI we just got back from a quick weekend at DL and we were very surprised with the lack of scrappers on CM lanyards, we did a lot of trades and only received a few scrappers! YAY!!



I noticed the exact same thing on our last trip to WDW which is encouraging!!  Although there were A LOT of the starter pins, cuties, etc. very few scrappers.  

Could it be that we are making a difference?  I know we are making small differences by educating people on the DIS, but I'd like to think we could also be making a difference overall 

GREAT JOB everyone!!!!!


----------



## junebugTN

thelionqueen said:


> Could it be that we are making a difference?  I know we are making small differences by educating people on the DIS, but I'd like to think we could also be making a difference overall
> GREAT JOB everyone!!!!!



Thanks for all the hard work that you've put into this, lionqueen.  My daughter saves her allowance to buy her trading pins, and it always breaks my heart when she gets a closer look at a pin she has traded and realizes that it doesn't look "right."  

It's been tough trying to explain to her about people who knowingly buy fakes from Ebay for their kids to trade, because she understands that by doing so, they're taking advantage of the other kids who are pin trading the honest way. 

We're headed down in October, and I'm so encouraged to hear that trading won't be as discouraging as last year.   Thanks for all the work that's gone into educating people about this.  Even if it's only a tiny difference, it means the world to at least ONE little girl and her mom! 

June


----------



## Jen M

I wanted to report back about my son's trading pin experence. If it wasn't for all the wonderful people on this site I would not have known about scrappers

The first night I let him trade we got a scrapper. He got got it from a board that the French Quarter has in there gift shop. (I also don't recommend staying there) A few days later I mentioned it to one of the girls that works there and she said she has seen lots on that board. He then got one from a guy at the photo pass site in Epot. After looking at it I think it was plastic. There was one other one that was from 2004 that I wasn't sure about. It could have been really but It had like a shinny finish on it and I wasn't sure if it was real or not. 

Other than the 3 cases we had all and all he got some good pins and had a great time doing it. His little brother even wanted to get in on it so I gave him 4 pins to trade and he trade his trades ever time his big brother did.

We also spend alot of money on pins. I tried to buy ones that were limited additions. I think we got 6 from the halloween party alone.


----------



## pixiewings71

The plastic looking one might be a Sedesma, they are really cheapy looking.  I have a few the girls got from CM's, I simply put them in my book and took them out of circulation. The back will say Sedesma if they are, and then you'll know what to try to avoid on lanyards.  I've even asked a CM to see the back before finishing the trade and then told them it wasn't tradable, they were surprised each time and just put it in their pocket.  I'm glad the boys had fun tho, hopefully it's a fun tradition you can continue on future visits.


----------



## dapoteete

I just bought a lot of 15 then a lot of 40 and should have realized that they could be too good to be true. These are the last two sellers I bought lots from. nannub and dzneypins. Anyone have anything to say about them.


----------



## pixiewings71

dapoteete said:


> I just bought a lot of 15 then a lot of 40 and should have realized that they could be too good to be true. These are the last two sellers I bought lots from. nannub and dzneypins. Anyone have anything to say about them.



nannub is a trader who gets newbies to purchase good LE's from the stores which he then trades for scrappers, he also trades scrappers to CMs to get the good pins to sell on eBay, we do not recommend him for that reason.  dzneypins I have no direct knowledge of.


----------



## MountNittany

WantToGoNow said:


> I ordered a lot of 20 from Ebay from funmamas that came today. I looked each one up on PinPics and atleast 2/3 of them said there are possible scrappers and I found 4 that are definitely scrappers.   Now she (I'm assuming it's a she) did send 7 Chip & Dale pins because I sent her a note that I collected them.  It doesn't really matter to me that 2 of the Chip & Dales are scrappers because I won't be trading them anyway.


red or orange?


----------



## dapoteete

pixiewings71 said:


> nannub is a trader who gets newbies to purchase good LE's from the stores which he then trades for scrappers, he also trades scrappers to CMs to get the good pins to sell on eBay, we do not recommend him for that reason.  dzneypins I have no direct knowledge of.



Thank you for the info. I looked at my pins and can not tell if they are scrappers, but most look and feel like real pins. Thanks again, and I will not be buying from him again.


----------



## pixiewings71

dapoteete said:


> Thank you for the info. I looked at my pins and can not tell if they are scrappers, but most look and feel like real pins. Thanks again, and I will not be buying from him again.



I'm sure most, if not all, are real.  I purchased from him before finding out how he gets his great pins.....He really has some great stuff, I just won't buy from him now.


----------



## DisneyTreasurePins

Its been a while since I had a Pick your own lot but its there now.My ebay name is MickeysTreasure If you have any questions give me a email through ebay.

Chris


----------



## jackskellingtonsgirl

As I have said before, we are completely finished with eBay pins. 

But I do have some remarks about the pins we got in August.  We were at WDW Aug. 1-15, but we only brought our lanyards to the parks some of the days.

Scrappers:
Hidden Mickey "Alphabet" pins - T, L, F, U, C, D, I, R, W, S.  These have a much more matte finish, the font looks weird on the back stamp.
Hidden Mickey "Blue Square" - Mickey
Hidden Mickey - this was an older set, released last year, I think - it is the little alien guy who is one of Stitch's friends.
Haunted Mansion casket, LE 500 that came in a box set.
We got a couple of others that I am iffy about, but the ones listed above I know FOR SURE are scrappers/counterfeits.

In the past we have traded upwards of 40 pins per day.  This year we only brought about 150 traders total with us, and we brought about half of the traders back home.


----------



## MountNittany

jackskellingtonsgirl said:


> As I have said before, we are completely finished with eBay pins.
> 
> But I do have some remarks about the pins we got in August.  We were at WDW Aug. 1-15, but we only brought our lanyards to the parks some of the days.
> 
> Scrappers:
> Hidden Mickey "Alphabet" pins - T, L, F, U, C, D, I, R, W, S.  These have a much more matte finish, the font looks weird on the back stamp.
> Hidden Mickey "Blue Square" - Mickey
> Hidden Mickey - this was an older set, released last year, I think - it is the little alien guy who is one of Stitch's friends.
> Haunted Mansion casket, LE 500 that came in a box set.
> We got a couple of others that I am iffy about, but the ones listed above I know FOR SURE are scrappers/counterfeits.
> 
> In the past we have traded upwards of 40 pins per day.  This year we only brought about 150 traders total with us, and we brought about half of the traders back home.



Thank you for the info


----------



## Deesknee

I feel like I just found out the characters aren't real.  DS (almost 19) loves to collect disney pins. He hates trading them. He buys a pin because it has some meaning to him. So I bought him a "grab" bag of 20 to trade, in case he sees one on a cm that means something to him.  He was SO excited. Now i hve to tell him this.  I also sent a "grab" bag to my niece as a bday gift.  I feel like such a fool.

Well, at least I know now.  I don't know for sure the ones I purchased are fakes, but they were "grab" bag pins.  I just figured they were either cm's, discontinued ore something like that. I never occured to me they were fakes. When I read the discriptions bragging no euro pins, things like that I just figured they weren't made as well.  I guess I am naive.

Thank you all for the valueable lesson.


----------



## addicted2dizney

I personally don't care if some I trade or trade for are scrappers.. If I like the pin I get it.  My kids specifically trade for certain themes/characters so it can be a challenge to find the ones they like.  Our collection is for our own personal enjoyment and if I trade a 1.50 ish scrapper for another 1.50ish scrapper it's fine with me.  The bottom line is that these cheaper pins create a lot of interest in pin collecting/trading and rarely does anyone leave the parks without buying a few "real" $10+ pins from the kiosks.    Anyone out there who really knows or cares about the differences knows what to look and the casual collectors can just have some fun with them.  If you get a pin you don't like or think the color is off.. just trade it back.   That's how you got it to begin with.


----------



## shalom

addicted2dizney said:


> The bottom line is that these cheaper pins create a lot of interest in pin collecting/trading and rarely does anyone leave the parks without buying a few "real" $10+ pins from the kiosks.



While I would not knowingly buy from a scrapper, I'd hazard a guess that this is precisely Disney's philosophy, and may explain why they aren't coming down on many people labeled scrappers.

Here's the thing.  Hubby has been buying and reselling collectibles of different kinds since the 1970's, and the fact is, most collectibles drop in price.  I've seen people argue that anyone reselling pins for under $2 when they cost $6 to $8 new is most likely a scrapper, and that simply doesn't follow with any collectible I know.  Most collectibles fall in value.  Many collectibles follow a boom and bust pattern, and it's very common for stores that sell collectibles to end up selling a fair percentage of their stock at prices considerably lower than they paid wholesale, because they have to move the stock to make space for new stuff that might actually earn them a profit.  The fact that something sells for considerably less than the original wholesale price does not, by itself, indicate a scrapper.

I've also seen it argued (I think in this thread, but I've read a ton of stuff the last few days so I'm not sure), that various pins "should" be relatively rare, because they were only available if you could find them on a CM and trade for them.  But did Disney ever say that all the pins that were never sold on cards but were only available (initially) by trading for them on a CM's lanyard were in some sense a limited edition?  In other words, were these pins actually rare, or was there just a perception of rarity because you couldn't buy them direct?  Because the ideal situation for Disney, as the seller, is to create the image that something's rare, while actually having enough product on hand to satisfy every customer who wants it.

No doubt for a time there were some pins on CM's lanyards that were truly rare - that's certainly how I would have set it up.  But if Disney never said that the CM-only pins were runs limited to number x, then odds are good that most of the pins on a CM's lanyard come from enormous official runs, and most of the time the perception of rarity is artificial, in the sense that they're not wearing many of that pin within the parks at any one time, but the pins are available from CMs for weeks.

Do I believe there are scrappers and cheap knock offs out there?  Yes.  Would I buy a large lot of pins for a dollar or two per pin?  No.  But do I think that most pins offered on e-bay outside those lots are most likely scrappers if they're selling for under $2?  Also no.  And I don't believe that Disney's just sitting back and letting scrappers in China do as they please, either.  But I also don't think Disney's going to ever do enough to please some people, because I don't believe the scrapper problem is as big as a lot of people seem to think.

With very rare exceptions, collectibles are like new cars.  As soon as you drive a new car off the lot, it loses a LARGE percentage of its value.  Even if you just bought it yesterday, you are just not going to be able to sell it for what you bought it for.  And when you're talking Disney pins, which are cranked out in enormous numbers with I would guess hundreds to choose from, very, very few pins are going to hold their value, and that includes Limited Edition pins and other pins that were very hard to get initially.  The only time Limited Edition matters is if there Edition is Limited to a smaller number of people who want it.

A lot of collectibles tend to go through a surge of interest where a lot of people get really excited about them and buy gazillions of them - but a fair percentage of those people lose interest, move on to another collectible, and decide to sell their collection.  Once you get enough people into that "I need more space for something new" phase, resale prices tank, which kills the interest of people who are just interested in things that seem to be gaining in value.  In the long run, you end up with people who appreciate the collectible for what it is, and their interest is a lot more unpredictable.  Which is why a lot of people I know who habitually collected "Limited Edition" this or that eventually dumped the whole collection at a garage sale - the collectors had moved on, and they'd bought the thing in the first place hoping to resell it.

Buy what you love at a reasonable price.  Don't pass on broken or poorly made pins.  Do your best to avoid the guys on ebay that you believe are counterfeit.  Be as honest as you can, but unless you've got evidence they're counterfeit, don't worry much about pins that are high enough quality nobody can tell the difference anyhow.  Tell ebay and Disney if you think you've been taken.  Let Disney worry about the rest - they're the most qualified to truly know when there's a problem anyhow.  

And enjoy your collection!


----------



## thelionqueen

shalom said:


> While I would not knowingly buy from a scrapper, I'd hazard a guess that this is precisely Disney's philosophy, and may explain why they aren't coming down on many people labeled scrappers.
> 
> Here's the thing.  Hubby has been buying and reselling collectibles of different kinds since the 1970's, and the fact is, most collectibles drop in price.  I've seen people argue that anyone reselling pins for under $2 when they cost $6 to $8 new is most likely a scrapper, and that simply doesn't follow with any collectible I know.  Most collectibles fall in value.  Many collectibles follow a boom and bust pattern, and it's very common for stores that sell collectibles to end up selling a fair percentage of their stock at prices considerably lower than they paid wholesale, because they have to move the stock to make space for new stuff that might actually earn them a profit.  The fact that something sells for considerably less than the original wholesale price does not, by itself, indicate a scrapper.
> 
> I've also seen it argued (I think in this thread, but I've read a ton of stuff the last few days so I'm not sure), that various pins "should" be relatively rare, because they were only available if you could find them on a CM and trade for them.  But did Disney ever say that all the pins that were never sold on cards but were only available (initially) by trading for them on a CM's lanyard were in some sense a limited edition?  In other words, were these pins actually rare, or was there just a perception of rarity because you couldn't buy them direct?  Because the ideal situation for Disney, as the seller, is to create the image that something's rare, while actually having enough product on hand to satisfy every customer who wants it.
> 
> No doubt for a time there were some pins on CM's lanyards that were truly rare - that's certainly how I would have set it up.  But if Disney never said that the CM-only pins were runs limited to number x, then odds are good that most of the pins on a CM's lanyard come from enormous official runs, and most of the time the perception of rarity is artificial, in the sense that they're not wearing many of that pin within the parks at any one time, but the pins are available from CMs for weeks.
> 
> Do I believe there are scrappers and cheap knock offs out there?  Yes.  Would I buy a large lot of pins for a dollar or two per pin?  No.  But do I think that most pins offered on e-bay outside those lots are most likely scrappers if they're selling for under $2?  Also no.  And I don't believe that Disney's just sitting back and letting scrappers in China do as they please, either.  But I also don't think Disney's going to ever do enough to please some people, because I don't believe the scrapper problem is as big as a lot of people seem to think.
> 
> With very rare exceptions, collectibles are like new cars.  As soon as you drive a new car off the lot, it loses a LARGE percentage of its value.  Even if you just bought it yesterday, you are just not going to be able to sell it for what you bought it for.  And when you're talking Disney pins, which are cranked out in enormous numbers with I would guess hundreds to choose from, very, very few pins are going to hold their value, and that includes Limited Edition pins and other pins that were very hard to get initially.  The only time Limited Edition matters is if there Edition is Limited to a smaller number of people who want it.
> 
> A lot of collectibles tend to go through a surge of interest where a lot of people get really excited about them and buy gazillions of them - but a fair percentage of those people lose interest, move on to another collectible, and decide to sell their collection.  Once you get enough people into that "I need more space for something new" phase, resale prices tank, which kills the interest of people who are just interested in things that seem to be gaining in value.  In the long run, you end up with people who appreciate the collectible for what it is, and their interest is a lot more unpredictable.  Which is why a lot of people I know who habitually collected "Limited Edition" this or that eventually dumped the whole collection at a garage sale - the collectors had moved on, and they'd bought the thing in the first place hoping to resell it.
> 
> Buy what you love at a reasonable price.  Don't pass on broken or poorly made pins.  Do your best to avoid the guys on ebay that you believe are counterfeit.  Be as honest as you can, but unless you've got evidence they're counterfeit, don't worry much about pins that are high enough quality nobody can tell the difference anyhow.  Tell ebay and Disney if you think you've been taken.  Let Disney worry about the rest - they're the most qualified to truly know when there's a problem anyhow.
> 
> And enjoy your collection!




I understand and appreciate the comments you posted here, thank you for your insight!
I do want to point out that no one on this thread is indicating that ANY pin that is sold for under $2 is a scrapper.  What we ARE saying is that when you are buying these pins in huge lots with multiple duplicates for under a buck to $2 a pin they are fake.  Is there a VERY RARE exception to this rule?  Likely, although I have yet to see or hear of one.  

I totally agree with you that collectibles in all arenas go down in value, that is a given and maybe even moreso with Disney pins as they are so expensive to begin with.  However, that is not what the debate or question is on this thread (or in general IMO) to the scrapper nightmare.  AUTHENTIC collectibles going down in value is one thing, hundreds of thousands and fake pins made in China and infiltrating the pin trading community is quite another; that is the issue we are tackling here.

As far as letting Disney handle this problem, you are right on the money with the expertise and resources they have to do something about it.  But, as with all HUGE multi-national companies and the law, there are limits to what they can and cannot do.  

They have been battling this epidemic for at LEAST 3 years that I know of with little effect (if any) of scrapper selling on ebay.  The difference I have seen as of late, is that there are less scrappers on CM's lanyards.  That is something that I believe Disney had the power to control more quickly than international trading laws, and did.  

I must disagree with one point you made which is you believe this problem is not as big as "we" think it is.  Actually, I believe it is at least as big as we perceive and going to get even bigger the longer it takes Disney to reign in these illegal producers and ebay sellers of scrappers.  Many of us visit Disney several times a year and have been pin trading since day 1 (myself included) and know exactly, first hand, the impact it has on the hobby we love.  This is something that Disney exec's have no idea about, but we (those of us involved in the actual face-to-face pin trading interaction) do.  That is why we are educating people, many of whom don't know any better, as to what this issue is.  

As far as Disney manufacturing CM (hidden mickey) pins, they are manufactured SOLELY for the Disney company and are distributed by supervisors and managers directly to CM's specifically for trading.  There are no edition sizes on these pins; most learn of their rarity (or availability) months after release.

I guess to sum up my opinion is that I agree with you on the lessening value of collectibles.  However, that issue is not at all what we are debating or questioning in regards to the issue of scrapper sellers and trading.  If you like a pin, trade for it, I agree.  But for those who invest thousands of dollars into this hobby to trade their QUALITY (not collectible or expensive, but quality) pins for cheap imitations by those who paid pennies for them and who are illegally making money of trademark infractations is just very annoying.  At least that is my take.  Many others on the boards and this thread may or may not agree, but that is my opinion.


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## shalom

thelionqueen said:


> I must disagree with one point you made which is you believe this problem is not as big as "we" think it is.



Well, define "we."  I may be exaggerating in saying the problem isn't as big as a "lot" of people think, but OTOH in researching specific pins I've often run across someone insisting that the pin in question is being sold by scrappers, because of this, that or the other, and then someone else saying the pin they bought direct from Disney has that date or that quirk to it.  Any pin that isn't a limited edition may have gone through more than one printing, and the different printings may have different quirks, so saying a pin "must" be a scrapper because it's subtly different from one you bought at the parks is too strong a statement for me.  But there I've run across a number of people on the Internet making it - enough people to seem like a "lot" of people to me.  (Again, not referring to this thread in particular.)

Disney has a long history of taking on counterfeiters and being very protective of their name, so part of the reason I'm skeptical is the number of people I've seen say it's a huge problem, but Disney isn't doing anything.  Disney is doing something, bet money, and the fact that they didn't come down on a particular ebay seller someone on the Internet has labeled a scrapper makes me suspect that it may be the accuser who got it wrong.  The exception is the guys like nannub, who're canny enough not to sell the counterfeit pins directly - going on what little I know of the law, those guys really can be a challenge for Disney to take down on ebay (although Disney can still do things to cut off their source).  

But the people accused of being scrappers because they have too many of one pin, or sell too many of the same kind of pins, or sell too cheaply... maybe so, maybe not.  Disney knows what pins have gone to the outlet stores, we don't.  If the seller's been around selling Disney pins for a while, and Disney hasn't come down on them, odds are the seller isn't knowingly dishonest.  The exception being sellers like nannub, but those sellers usually trade their counterfeit pins for the best they can get, skim out the good stuff, and dump the rest in batches, so people like myself who buy one pin at a time and have no particular interest in rarities don't often end up interacting with them.

I'm going to continue to research pins I want because I'm anal like that, and I buy for myself rather than for trading anyhow (DD thought trading sounded cool, and we're hitting WDW in April, which is why I've been reading up on it like a fiend lately).  But I just hate to think that people are telling their kids they can't collect or trade because they think it's impossible to do it honestly.  China may not enforce copyright laws, but the US does, and so does ebay.  So I'd like to tell people to be aware and care, but don't be afraid to trade.


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## thelionqueen

shalom said:


> Well, define "we."  I may be exaggerating in saying the problem isn't as big as a "lot" of people think, but OTOH in researching specific pins I've often run across someone insisting that the pin in question is being sold by scrappers, because of this, that or the other, and then someone else saying the pin they bought direct from Disney has that date or that quirk to it.  Any pin that isn't a limited edition may have gone through more than one printing, and the different printings may have different quirks, so saying a pin "must" be a scrapper because it's subtly different from one you bought at the parks is too strong a statement for me.  But there I've run across a number of people on the Internet making it - enough people to seem like a "lot" of people to me.  (Again, not referring to this thread in particular.)
> 
> Disney has a long history of taking on counterfeiters and being very protective of their name, so part of the reason I'm skeptical is the number of people I've seen say it's a huge problem, but Disney isn't doing anything.  Disney is doing something, bet money, and the fact that they didn't come down on a particular ebay seller someone on the Internet has labeled a scrapper makes me suspect that it may be the accuser who got it wrong.  The exception is the guys like nannub, who're canny enough not to sell the counterfeit pins directly - going on what little I know of the law, those guys really can be a challenge for Disney to take down on ebay (although Disney can still do things to cut off their source).
> 
> But the people accused of being scrappers because they have too many of one pin, or sell too many of the same kind of pins, or sell too cheaply... maybe so, maybe not.  Disney knows what pins have gone to the outlet stores, we don't.  If the seller's been around selling Disney pins for a while, and Disney hasn't come down on them, odds are the seller isn't knowingly dishonest.  The exception being sellers like nannub, but those sellers usually trade their counterfeit pins for the best they can get, skim out the good stuff, and dump the rest in batches, so people like myself who buy one pin at a time and have no particular interest in rarities don't often end up interacting with them.
> 
> I'm going to continue to research pins I want because I'm anal like that, and I buy for myself rather than for trading anyhow (DD thought trading sounded cool, and we're hitting WDW in April, which is why I've been reading up on it like a fiend lately).  But I just hate to think that people are telling their kids they can't collect or trade because they think it's impossible to do it honestly.  China may not enforce copyright laws, but the US does, and so does ebay.  So I'd like to tell people to be aware and care, but don't be afraid to trade.



I totally agree with your last statement!  I don't think people should give up on trading all together, but it certainly does make it less entertaining for me anyway.

I want to clarify one of the statements you made.  I don't think anyone has any absolute information other than their personal experience.  So I can say, at least for myself and some others on this thread, that no one indicated that a pin with subtle differences "must" be a scrapper.  On the contrary, I've stated over and over, "in my opinion" or something along those lines.  However, In General, there are indications that a pin is "likely" a scrapper.  These indications, our experiences and postings are not exact science, and I personally cannot guarantee my opinion or insight, but, the "if it walks like a duck" theory is usually correct 

As far as Disney taking on counterfeiters, you are correct.  They fiercely defend their brand in almost all areas.  I have personally talked to Disney legal on more than one occasion regarding this issue.  And though they are very vague as to what they are doing to combat the problem, I was able to surmise some of the roadblocks.  

I think many are overlooking what an incredibly difficult task this is.  First they need to find the distributors in China-this alone is a nearly impossible task.  If (and I emphasize IF) they were to find these distributors, then they have to tackle international laws and start there.

If you took the step above TOTALLY out of the equation, and they focused their efforts solely on stopping scrapper sellers, that is again a nearly impossible task.  First they would need to target these individuals, then determine, with absolute certainty and substantiated proof they are selling illegally acquired scrappers.  That would require probably a full time staff trolling ebay all day every day to try to begin this process.  As we all know, all companies have downsized, Disney included, and this is likely just not feasible.  Let's say they did do this, then targeted ceratain individuals.  The would have to order and receive the items, prove they are scrappers and then pursue legal action.  They would then have to work with ebay (another HUGE corporation) to provide legal documents forbidding certain sellers from selling on ebay.  Then they would have to rely on ebay to ban these sellers.  If that were to happen, I'm guessing it would take all of about 1 minute for these sellers to create new accounts and start all over again.

This is just a small tidbit of what would likely need to be done to curtail this activity from the Disney legal level.  Are they doing something about this?  Absolutely in my opinion!  However, as we all know, this could take years if not decades.

As far as selling pins to outlets, I have yet to see a pin at an outlet for less than $3 (trust me, I've been to dozens all over the country).  The cheapest I have ever seen a pin, that is authentic from Disney, was at the CM store and they came down to $2.27 per pin.  This was a SPECIFIC sale only for CM's and only for 3 days (special event).  I have seen them on sale at Disney Stores for around or slightly under $2 and online for $2-3 range.  

As far as the statement that you made regarding "if they've been selling pins for awhile and Disney hasn't come down on them the seller isn't knowingly selling scrappers (paraphrased)" is totally incorrect.  There are several sellers (2 that I have specifically given information to Disney legal on) that are STILL selling scrappers and likely will for the foreseeable future.  These people are WAY ahead of Disney on getting their fakes sold which is truly a shame.  A lot of people who buy these lots have the same way of thinking.  "If they have high and good feedback, and are powersellers they must be legit"  this is the biggest misconception for potential buyers!

People who are leaving positive feeback for the people have no idea what a scrapper is or that it exists.  They are just looking for cheap pins..period.  This is what this thread is about..educating those looking to buy cheap pins that are legit.  There are reputable sellers of authentic pins on ebay that sell them cheap (I have done so previously).  But the overall "take away" information from this thread should be....if it's too good to be true it probably is (note probably).  If you're buying 100 pins for under a buck a pin from one person who has sold thousands just like it before, they're fake.  Can I say this with absolute certainty?  No.  But common sense needs to kick it at some point and that's really what I'm trying to convey.  

Please don't take this as anything buy my opinion on this issue and certainly not meant to be defensive.  I have been in this debate for years now and have gained valuable information and insight regarding it.  I do not know everything, I learn something new all the time.  But I've done this and been involved in this long enough to be able to spot a scrapper and scrapper seller almost immediately.  

I can't imagine anyone would forbid their children to trade because of this issue, I certainly wouldn't do it to my children or encourage anyone else to.  But I also don't want to spend my hard earned dollars buying authentic merchandise to trade it with a cheap piece of tin made in China.  So I educate myself, my family and anyone who asks, so they can be better informed when trading.  

I value everyone's opinion and thank you for posting your thoughts!


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## Ecboyd

Very well  (and civilly) argued. 

I love pin trading, and frankly could not tell a fake from a real pin, but I only trade with what I buy at the park (Or the Disney store, or the Discount Disney stores).

But I wanted to thank you both for the Education and the well argued points of view. 

All to often on line people loose their tempers and blast each other... I actually enjoyed reading your discourse, it was very educational. 

Thank you!


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## blockscrappers

Here's an idea.  Convince Disney to buy from the U.S.A, they could bid out the job, still make money and provide American jobs.  That way they more easily protect their pins by only authorizing one U.S. company to make and back stamp them.  Plus they could get the company to destroy the mold once a certain number is made.


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## pixiewings71

blockscrappers said:


> Here's an idea.  Convince Disney to buy from the U.S.A, they could bid out the job, still make money and provide American jobs.  That way they more easily protect their pins by only authorizing one U.S. company to make and back stamp them.  Plus they could get the company to destroy the mold once a certain number is made.



 ita!


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## Emerson613

blockscrappers said:


> Here's an idea.  Convince Disney to buy from the U.S.A, they could bid out the job, still make money and provide American jobs.  That way they more easily protect their pins by only authorizing one U.S. company to make and back stamp them.  Plus they could get the company to destroy the mold once a certain number is made.



yeah! That! Since I am late to this topic but freshly Scrapper initiated- I couldn't agree more! How upsetting and totally makes you feel torn. It's horrible! But this is what you get when someone can sell you something for $0.50 instead of $9.50.  Makes me sad! Honestly!


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## pixiewings71

Hi Emerson, there is a new thread regarding eBay and scrappers, this one is very old.   The other one is slightly more updated and we have a member who is working on making a brand new list for us.  Please follow the link in my signature to get to the new thread.


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## Kevin Burch

Hello, 

I bought a pin at WDW in Epcot, but much to my surprise after inspecting it with the others, I found a small error. The pin I got was a limited edition Epcot 35 anniversary I was there. The error that I noticed was the “1” in the year 2017 was not filled in with white. Since I just started getting into trading I was just curious what the significance of purchasing a error pin from WDW is, and is there a way to report it to see if there are duplicates?


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