# Transgender bathrooms



## old lady

What is your take on this subject? Does Disney take on this? I prefer transgender to have family restrooms since they do deserve privacy.


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## Vijoge

I guess the bigger question is "What to transgender individuals prefer?'  Personally, I have no problems with transgendered people using whatever bathroom they feel most comfortable using.


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## wilkeliza

Most of the time you aren't going to realize that a person is transgender and what bathroom they are using. How about stop focusing on what others do and focus on having a good time yourself and not judging if someone is woman or man enough to share a bathroom space. 

I don't believe Disney has ever come out with an official policy but I imagine it is use whatever bathroom you feel comfortable with according to your chosen gender. No one is being the bathroom police checking peoples genitals as they walk in so it isn't that big of a deal and the fact they didn't touch that bloggers post with a 10 foot pole makes me think they aren't going to make an official announcement or policy.


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## Gracie09

Vijoge said:


> I guess the bigger question is "What to transgender individuals prefer?'  Personally, I have no problems with transgendered people using whatever bathroom they feel most comfortable using.


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## arminnie

Why have male/female bathrooms?  How about going *****/non ***** bathrooms?  Not because of gender but because of how one urinates.  Non ***** people cannot effectively use urinals.  But if a ***** person wants to go use a stall vs a urinal well then I do not want to lift any skirts to determine what the plumbing is.


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## cruisehopeful

We could just do what they do in Europe and have all the toilets together, eliminating the male and female restrooms entirely. That would also cut down on the long lines for women's restrooms.

Since we aren't there, yet, in the meantime, I believe the policy for Disneyland would be the same as it is for California. Use the restroom you identify with. Maybe the non-binary gender people have it easier, as they can pee wherever the line is the shortest. No idea what the Florida policies are.

I would never notice if a transgender person was in the same restroom I was in. I don't examine other people in the restroom as I feel it is a private area where people go to do their business and leave. I don't want other people checking me out, either. If people are checking me out in the restroom, tell me now so that going forward I can only use the private family/companion toilets.


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## Chuck S

cruisehopeful said:


> We could just do what they do in Europe and have all the toilets together, eliminating the male and female restrooms entirely.



I've been to conventions with short breaks, and women simply waltzed in and used the mens room, walking passed the guys at the urinals, using a stall, washing their hands and leaving.  No one cared, it worked fine.


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## DrunkJam

I don't know what Disney Thinks, but personally, how would I ever know? I mean, Given I am going into the ladies, which is all stalls, I am not sticking my head under or over the door to check the anatomy of anyone using the other stalls? I would think it was more comfortable, and safer, for a transgender woman to use the ladies toilet? After all, probably no one would know even seeing them walk in that they were not anatomically female. So, it makes perfect sense for them to be there. 
I really can't see why people get worked up about this. I am not bothered who is peeing in the stall next to mine, I am just doing what I need to do and getting on with my day, which, I suspect is the same for nearly if not all the other people using the restroom.


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## marcyleecorgan

My DD5 prefers to go to the bathroom with DH rather than me, which sometimes gets us weird looks when she is screaming her head off and fighting me, but I'm like, "It's a bathroom and we are here for one reason - the _toilet_."

It doesn't matter what your plumbing is like... use the facilities, clean up after yourself, and ta-da!  Not rocket science!  I wish people did not make such a big deal about it.

Previous to indoor plumbing and all manner of interior design *in* said bathrooms, our Western Civilization had outhouses.  And alleyway privies!  And garderobes!  UGH to the last one...


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## MetalMasterC

A lot of the issue when it comes to bathrooms mainly has to deal with religious concerns reflected in societal standards. I'll leave that at that.

I rarely ever use public bathrooms as it is because the stalls are usually not well maintained. When I do need to go, I just go in and do my thing, leave. I don't like spending any more time than I have to. I am not concerned about other people inside the restroom. That's the way it should be, but it will never be.


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## srwarden1928

I don't want to offend anyone, but I am extremely uncomfortable with women in the men's room. You can say it is my problem, and it is, but it makes me uncomfortable. It may come from childhood--my father REFUSED to allow my mother to take me into a ladies room after I was 2 years old and potty trained. I have no problem with a family restroom--of course usually you go into those one "family" at a time.


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## Cloudy

As the parent of a disabled, adult, opposite sex, child, I also would like to join the transgender community in bathrooms for all.  This problem does not just affect transgenders, but also parents with disabled children, husbands with disabled wives, etc.  Not everywhere has a family bathroom or dressing room for that matter or enough of them.


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## Kingdome8

Bathrooms for all no way.   Unless I'm understanding it wrong I don't want my daughters walking by men at urinals.  When did everything gets so crazy that we even have this conversation.  

If a transgendered man wants to go in ladies that's fine.  I guess I just think of  the extreme cases.  Like perverts taking advantage or legit transgendered who look manly and I have to explain to a 4 year girl.


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## Kingdome8

Cloudy said:


> As the parent of a disabled, adult, opposite sex, child, I also would like to join the transgender community in bathrooms for all.  This problem does not just affect transgenders, but also parents with disabled children, husbands with disabled wives, etc.  Not everywhere has a family bathroom or dressing room for that matter or enough of them.


But  if u have a 5 year old girl u want her walking by men at urinals.   I don't.


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## Cloudy

Kingdome8 said:


> But  if u have a 5 year old girl u want her walking by men at urinals.   I don't.



Doesn't bother me at all. 

It is much better to send my severely mentally disabled son into the men's room by himself and hope for the best.  He probably makes a mess but I am not using that toilet anyway.  I just really worry in large restrooms with multiple exits like at sporting events and the movie theaters that he will go out a different exit than the one I am waiting outside.

I have been yelled at on multiple occasions for having him in the women's room because he does not have any physical signs of a disability.


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## wilkeliza

Kingdome8 said:


> Bathrooms for all no way.   Unless I'm understanding it wrong I don't want my daughters walking by men at urinals.  When did everything gets so crazy that we even have this conversation.
> 
> If a transgendered man wants to go in ladies that's fine.  I guess I just think of  the extreme cases.  Like perverts taking advantage or legit transgendered who look manly and I have to explain to a 4 year girl.



No all genders bathroom I've ever been in has urinals that are open for all to see. I've been in stalls that had urinals as well as toliets per each stall but never urinals all out in the open for everyone to see.

Also please if you see someone you don't deem feminine enough to be in the ladies bathroom teach your daughter that all of us are made different but are all okay.

I was drawn to this thread again because at Galactic Nights a woman with very short hair came in the bathroom and while I didn't find anything wrong the woman at the sinks wih me goes OMG is that a boy ugh how could he? And then asks me was that a boy. I said ma'am I don't really know and don't really care I don't look at people that much when I'm in the bathroom and left.


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## Westcoastwild

wilkeliza said:


> No all genders bathroom I've ever been in has urinals that are open for all to see. I've been in stalls that had urinals as well as toliets per each stall but never urinals all out in the open for everyone to see.
> 
> Also please if you see someone you don't deem feminine enough to be in the ladies bathroom teach your daughter that all of us are made different but are all okay.
> 
> I was drawn to this thread again because at Galactic Nights a woman with ver short hair came in the bathroom and while I didn't find anything wrong the woman at the sinks wih me goes OMG is that a boy ugh how could he? And then asks was that a boy. I said ma'am I don't really know and don't really care I don't look at people that much when I'm in the bathroom and left.




I just wanted to say and About the galactic nights thing.

What stumps me is the people who want to wonder over that sort of thing. Like how do you plan to get evidence that ISN'T a girl? Peek through the crack? Demand to see a drivers license? Ask outright? I mean I'm not going to show any stranger in a public restroom proof of my gender on demand.

And then there's the whole thing that you can't tell someone's sexuality just by looking at them. That never seems to cross the mind of people that I've met who worry about transgenders using the "wrong" restroom.  I personally think you're more likely to be ogled by a lesbian than a transgender in the ladies restroom but what do I know. If anyone does ogle others in bathrooms. That is generally the furthest thing from my mind when I'm using the facilities.


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## Kingdome8

Yeah sorry never been in non gender bathroom.  

And thank you I do teach my girls all the right things about others.  Like I said I think more of the extreme cases where people take advantage of it.


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## wilkeliza

Kingdome8 said:


> Yeah sorry never been in non gender bathroom.
> 
> And thank you I do teach my girls all the right things about others.  Like I said I think more of the extreme cases where people take advantage of it.



The thing is you said someone who looks manly. So you are deciding you personally get to decide what is woman enough to be in the bathroom. Every transgender person I know just wants to pee and get out of there because they have faced too much embarrassment and even physical violence simply over where they pee.

Also there isn't some magical barrier that keeps pedophiles out of bathrooms. Men and women can both be pedophiles and if a man is in a woman's bathroom that is empty enough that no other woman is around then equality laws or not aren't going to stop him from doing what he wants. That's what has always fascinated me about bathroom laws and issues. Do you think saying only those who pass or those who were born a certain gender can use this bathroom would really stop a rapist or pedophile?


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## dvcdream4fld

I wish I didn't take the time to read this, so I provided a comment so it isn't a complete waste of time.  Can't we just all get along?  I don't have any problem with sharing the bathroom with the opposite sex.   I don't know why we need to change the majority rule to make a few more comfortable.   It honestly doesn't hurt a transgender person to use a certain bathroom.  This is a stupid issue.


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## Westcoastwild

Kingdome8 said:


> Yeah sorry never been in non gender bathroom.
> 
> And thank you I do teach my girls all the right things about others.  Like I said I think more of the extreme cases where people take advantage of it.



I don't know what gender you are, but as a woman, I've used the men's room. They don't always have urinals. A lot of the newer ones don't. So the 5yr old in your example is unlikely to see anything. Although I think she's pretty unlikely to see anything anyway even with urinals?

Maybe I'm intruding on those delicate flowers that are manly men, but honestly, sometimes I just can't wait in the hour long line for the woman's restroom. 

Honestly my biggest objection to gender neutral bathroom use is that some men seem genuinely confused about what target they should be aiming for. But then again some women also object to touching their bottom to the seat which is a whole different topic...


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## Kingdome8

Again.  Like I said.   In my mind I think of the extreme cases.


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## Kingdome8

wilkeliza said:


> The thing is you said someone who looks manly. So you are deciding you personally get to decide what is woman enough to be in the bathroom. Every transgender person I know just wants to pee and get out of there because they have faced too much embarrassment and even physical violence simply over where they pee.
> 
> Also there isn't some magical barrier that keeps pedophiles out of bathrooms. Men and women can both be pedophiles and if a man is in a woman's bathroom that is empty enough that no other woman is around then equality laws or not aren't going to stop him from doing what he wants. That's what has always fascinated me about bathroom laws and issues. Do you think saying only those who pass or those who were born a certain gender can use this bathroom would really stop a rapist or pedophile?



Again.  I said I think of extreme cases.  I agree with next poster.  Why do majority always have to change to accommodate a few


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## Kingdome8

Westcoastwild said:


> I don't know what gender you are, but as a woman, I've used the men's room. They don't always have urinals. A lot of the newer ones don't. So the 5yr old in your example is unlikely to see anything. Although I think she's pretty unlikely to see anything anyway even with urinals?
> 
> Maybe I'm intruding on those delicate flowers that are manly men, but honestly, sometimes I just can't wait in the hour long line for the woman's restroom.
> 
> Honestly my biggest objection to gender neutral bathroom use is that some men seem genuinely confused about what target they should be aiming for. But then again some women also object to touching their bottom to the seat which is a whole different topic...



I think it's wrong u went into men's room.  Sorry your line is long.  Lol.  As a man if I go in women's room I would be screamed at and called a weirdo. It is just a dumb issue


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## wilkeliza

Kingdome8 said:


> Again.  I said I think of extreme cases.  I agree with next poster.  Why do majority always have to change to accommodate a few



I still don't get your thought process though. How does any of it prevent the extreme that you are talking about? Again bathrooms don't have shields that prevent anyone from using them. So in one case you have to have a talk with your daughter and that's not the worst thing in the world. In all the other extreme cases you are coming up with nothing is going to stop it. No law, no societial norms, nothing. If that terrible thing is going to happen it is be it in the bathroom, while walking home after class, or to your car while shopping.


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## Westcoastwild

Kingdome8 said:


> I think it's wrong u went into men's room.  Sorry your line is long.  Lol.  As a man if I go in women's room I would be screamed at and called a weirdo. It is just a dumb issue



Well I will say it's a novelty to meet a man with that opinion. The people I've had this discussion with before are generally my extremely religious and prudish (female) relatives.

You can scream and call a woman a weirdo if she has the nerve to walk into your restroom. I mean, I personally think that's kinda weird for either gender to do, but hey, if it makes you feel better. Hopefully for your sake that is a actually a woman and not a less than manly man.

What is your extreme case thing about? I do not really understand what you are arguing if you don't mind transgender folks using the bathroom?


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## wilkeliza

Kingdome8 said:


> My first post said I don't care if a transgender uses a bathroom.   I said in my mind I think of extreme cases.   Read again.



I did read and one of your comments was about individuals who don't pass. So again isn't it just easier and more pleasant for everyone involved that if someone is just going to the bathroom the just let it be, even if they don't pass for the gender they claim? Now if someone, no matter gender, is trying to force someone else into a stall or force themselves into a stall then I imagine a lot of people will be stepping up to help out or at least I hope people would.


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## Kingdome8

Westcoastwild said:


> Well I will say it's a novelty to meet a man with that opinion. The people I've had this discussion with before are generally my extremely religious and prudish (female) relatives.
> 
> You can scream and call a woman a weirdo if she has the nerve to walk into your restroom. I mean, I personally think that's kinda weird for either gender to do, but hey, if it makes you feel better. Hopefully for your sake that is a actually a woman and not a less than manly man.



I don't get what ur saying.   What is a novel opinion?   That I think it's wrong for a women to go in men's room or if I walked in women's room I would be called a perv or weirdo.  please clarify


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## Westcoastwild

wilkeliza said:


> I did read and one of your comments was about individuals who don't pass. So again isn't it just easier and more pleasant for everyone involved that if someone is just going to the bathroom the just let it be, even if they don't pass for the gender they claim? Now if someone, no matter gender, is trying to *force someone else into a stall or force themselves into a stall* then I imagine a lot of people will be stepping up to help out or at least I hope people would.






Kingdome8 said:


> I don't get what ur saying.   What is a novel opinion?   That I think it's wrong for a women to go in men's room or if I walked in women's room I would be called a perv or weirdo.  please clarify



That you've got a strong reaction to a woman using a men's restroom. 

I don't care if a man uses the woman's restroom. As long as no one stares at me, hits on me, harasses me or attacks me while I'm using the bathroom, I just don't care who is also using the bathroom. I agree with wilkeliza that the symbol on the door isn't going to do a darn thing to stop predators and that predators come in both genders and all shapes and sizes.

Locker rooms- well, I'd care more there. But seriously, bathrooms are there for the express purpose of using the toilet, washing your hands, and maybe reapplying lipstick. What do you think I'm going to see that I shouldn't? What do you think you'd see in a woman's restroom? Except a tampon vending machine, I can't think of anything that I would consider exotic...


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## Branflakes

The problem with the bathroom issue, is it's the few that will ruin it for the many. Like it is with pretty much any law or rule, that one didnt feel even needed addressing. And now, here we are. For ages now transgendered people have been using which ever restroom. The issue has become a fear, because of the one pervert who will use this "law" as a means to act upon their sick fantasies. And that is an issue for anyone. Mom dad gay straight trans etc. No one wants a pedophile being granted easier access to their gender of choice. The few nefarious cause the many to have fear. 
And I personally feel, anyone with whatever chosen gender, with any sense about them, doesn't want that.


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## Westcoastwild

Branflakes said:


> The problem with the bathroom issue, is it's the few that will ruin it for the many. Like it is with pretty much any law or rule, that one didnt feel even needed addressing. And now, here we are. For ages now transgendered people have been using which ever restroom. The issue has become a fear, because of the one pervert who will use this "law" as a means to act upon their sick fantasies. And that is an issue for anyone. Mom dad gay straight trans etc. No one wants a pedophile being granted easier access to their gender of choice. The few nefarious cause the many to have fear.
> And I personally feel, anyone with whatever chosen gender, with any sense about them, doesn't want that.



Right...but can you name a single case in which a transgender person attacked or harmed anyone while using the restroom?

There are no security guards in front of public restrooms. (Usually). So your sickos already have access. And if you harass or hurt anyone in any restroom, that's already against the law. And sickos can be of the same gender as the the bathroom designation, so...I guess I don't understand how such a law increases any danger to anyone. 

Not to mention that to prove someone is not the gender of the restroom, you'd have to ask for documentation or, to see, um, their plumbing. There's a lot of people that I could not for sure tell you that they are definitely female or male at first sight. But I just can't see asking a stranger to prove that they can legally use that bathroom. And I'd probably laugh and refuse if someone asked me to do the same. So a neighborhood watch thing doesn't really work here either...


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## Branflakes

Westcoastwild said:


> Right...but can you name a single case in which a transgender person attacked or harmed anyone while using the restroom?
> 
> There are no security guards in front of public restrooms. (Usually). So your sickos already have access. And if you harass or hurt anyone in any restroom, that's already against the law. And sickos can be of the same gender as the the bathroom designation, so...I guess I don't understand how such a law increases any danger to anyone.
> 
> Not to mention that to prove someone is not the gender of the restroom, you'd have to ask for documentation or, to see, um, their plumbing. There's a lot of people that I could not for sure tell you that they are definitely female or male at first sight. But I just can't see asking a stranger to prove that they can legally use that bathroom. And I'd probably laugh and refuse if someone asked me to do the same. So a neighborhood watch thing doesn't really work here either...



I don't believe transgendered persons are the issue. And you are correct, pedophiles have had access, but I think this issue becoming a constant media battle emboldens them.


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## wilkeliza

Branflakes said:


> I don't believe transgendered persons are the issue. And you are correct, pedophiles have had access, but I think this issue becoming a constant media battle emboldens them.



This is the thought process I don't get. No amount of laws or rules or media is going to stop a pedophile from doing what they want to do. So are you in favor of checking everyone's birth certificate and ID or asking them to show their junk to a guard before they can pee? Someone who wants to do bad knows how to do it with out being told. If it was the media causing pedophiles to get ideas we would see a rise in cases and there have been 0. Heck crime is actually lowering every year.


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## Westcoastwild

Branflakes said:


> I don't believe transgendered persons are the issue. And you are correct, pedophiles have had access, but I think this issue becoming a constant media battle emboldens them.



Like encourages them to use a public restroom as a hunting ground? Um, no. I find that ridiculous. For one thing, pedophilia, or even rape, is not about gender- it's about power. So, let's pretend for a moment that public restroom is a plausible place to attack a kid (it's not). A male predator could go into the men's restroom and attack a male child. A female predator can go into a women's restroom and attack a female child. It's not like they've got "predator" tattooed on their forehead, just like gender or sexuality or mental health is tattooed on anyone's forehead. 

And frankly that's ignoring the overwhelming evidence that pedophiles and other predators are the greatest danger to family members or acquaintances. Not to random kids or women on the street. This reminds me of that urban legend that pops up- you know, kid gets snatched at the theme park, and the predator dyes the kid's hair and changes the clothes but forgets to change the shoes...and at the last possible second, someone recognizes the shoes and the kid is rescued.

It's an urban legend for a reason. Because it doesn't happen in reality.


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## Kingdome8

Westcoastwild said:


> That you've got a strong reaction to a woman using a men's restroom.
> 
> I don't care if a man uses the woman's restroom. As long as no one stares at me, hits on me, harasses me or attacks me while I'm using the bathroom, I just don't care who is also using the bathroom. I agree with wilkeliza that the symbol on the door isn't going to do a darn thing to stop predators and that predators come in both genders and all shapes and sizes.
> 
> Locker rooms- well, I'd care more there. But seriously, bathrooms are there for the express purpose of using the toilet, washing your hands, and maybe reapplying lipstick. What do you think I'm going to see that I shouldn't? What do you think you'd see in a woman's restroom? Except a tampon vending machine, I can't think of anything that I would consider exotic...


What's wrong with a locker room.  What am I going to see as a man there that I don't see at home.  Girls in underwear?   

What if a boy in high school identifies him self as a female should they be allowed in girls locker room or on a girls sports team. Just curious.


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## Kingdome8

wilkeliza said:


> This is the thought process I don't get. No amount of laws or rules or media is going to stop a pedophile from doing what they want to do. So are you in favor of checking everyone's birth certificate and ID or asking them to show their junk to a guard before they can pee? Someone who wants to do bad knows how to do it with out being told. If it was the media causing pedophiles to get ideas we would see a rise in cases and there have been 0. Heck crime is actually lowering every year.



Do you feel the same way about guns?   No amount of laws is going to stop criminals from being criminals correct?


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## Westcoastwild

Kingdome8 said:


> What's wrong with a locker room.  What am I going to see as a man there that I don't see at home.  Girls in underwear?
> 
> What if a boy in high school identifies him self as a female should they be allowed in girls locker room or on a girls sports team. Just curious.



Locker rooms involve nudity. Bathrooms don't. You are rarely showering or changing clothes in a public restroom. At least I don't see people do it often. I think both genders have a right to modesty.

But to answer your question, if a boy identifies as a girl, I don't have a problem with him in the locker room or on a sports team. that kid has enough on her plate as as a transgender in high school. No guy is doing that for access to the women's facilities. If you don't think that kids of the same gender are capable of harassing their peers over appearance or sexuality, well, you went to a nicer high school than I did. Again. Actions are the problem. Not gender, not sexuality.

I'm not sure why the sports team thing would be problematic. My sister is into body building.  I know girls who played football and rugby. I know guys who were on dance team and played tennis. What does gender have got to do with athletic ability?


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## Cloudy

Branflakes said:


> The problem with the bathroom issue, is it's the few that will ruin it for the many. Like it is with pretty much any law or rule, that one didnt feel even needed addressing. And now, here we are. For ages now transgendered people have been using which ever restroom. The issue has become a fear, because of the one pervert who will use this "law" as a means to act upon their sick fantasies. And that is an issue for anyone. Mom dad gay straight trans etc. No one wants a pedophile being granted easier access to their gender of choice. The few nefarious cause the many to have fear.
> And I personally feel, anyone with whatever chosen gender, with any sense about them, doesn't want that.



You honestly think that a pedophile is waiting for a "law" to allow him/her to go into the opposite sex bathroom to access a child of their preferred gender?


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## wilkeliza

Kingdome8 said:


> Do you feel the same way about guns?   No amount of laws is going to stop criminals from being criminals correct?



I can't go too far into it with out getting points but I believe in gun laws but not to the point of saying no one can own guns. So it would be similar to pedophilia is wrong just like murder is so you can be in whatever bathroom you want as long as you don't assualt or molest anyone just like you can own whatever with in reason gun you want as long as you aren't building a militia or using them to murder people or harass your neighbors.


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## Westcoastwild

Kingdome8 said:


> Do you feel the same way about guns?   No amount of laws is going to stop criminals from being criminals correct?



Well...I'm a lot more afraid of a gun than a guy's junk. One shoots bullets. The other...well, doesn't. Other than that, I'm not actually against responsible gun ownership. Again it's about actions.




wilkeliza said:


> I can't go too far into it with out getting points but I believe in gun laws but not to the point of saying no one can own guns. So it would be similar to pedophilia is wrong just like murder is so you can be in whatever bathroom you want as long as you don't assualt or molest anyone just like you can own whatever with in reason gun you want as long as you aren't building a militia or using them to murder people or harass your neighbors.



Well put!


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## cjbcam

If the doors and walls are floor to ceiling and no cracks for peering eyes I would have no problem if all sexes used all bathrooms. But with the huge gaps and such it's already embarrassing enough to have to change your tampon in the ladies bathroom. My teen girls would be so embarrassed to be in the stalls they have in most bathrooms and having boys in there classes be able to peek at them.


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## Westcoastwild

cjbcam said:


> If the doors and walls are floor to ceiling and no cracks for peering eyes I would have no problem if all sexes used all bathrooms. But with the huge gaps and such it's already embarrassing enough to have to change your tampon in the ladies bathroom. My teen girls would be so embarrassed to be in the stalls they have in most bathrooms and having boys in there classes be able to peek at them.



That perspective I do understand. I like that those gaps don't seem to be common in Europe. And I've used a diva cup in the past, and I have trouble washing that out with any kind of witnesses, even if they're female. Even if it's my best friend or sister.

But on the other hand, again, it's back to actions. Anyone peering through those cracks knows that's inappropriate. (Except possibly the toddler who sticker her head under the stall door once At fort wilderness. The noise I made was more than a little embarrassing. But I'm pretty sure the mother was more embarrassed than I was)


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## Branflakes

Cloudy said:


> You honestly think that a pedophile is waiting for a "law" to allow him/her to go into the opposite sex bathroom to access a child of their preferred gender?


No. I think it emboldens them.


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## Branflakes

Westcoastwild said:


> Like encourages them to use a public restroom as a hunting ground? Um, no. I find that ridiculous. For one thing, pedophilia, or even rape, is not about gender- it's about power. So, let's pretend for a moment that public restroom is a plausible place to attack a kid (it's not). A male predator could go into the men's restroom and attack a male child. A female predator can go into a women's restroom and attack a female child. It's not like they've got "predator" tattooed on their forehead, just like gender or sexuality or mental health is tattooed on anyone's forehead.
> 
> And frankly that's ignoring the overwhelming evidence that pedophiles and other predators are the greatest danger to family members or acquaintances. Not to random kids or women on the street. This reminds me of that urban legend that pops up- you know, kid gets snatched at the theme park, and the predator dyes the kid's hair and changes the clothes but forgets to change the shoes...and at the last possible second, someone recognizes the shoes and the kid is rescued.
> 
> It's an urban legend for a reason. Because it doesn't happen in reality.



Didn't say encourage. This is why this topic can't be discussed, everyone who differs in opinion from one another has words or interpretations added and subtracted. The micro inequities of a statement get turned into things like urban legend etc. Not what I said implied or intended. I'll respectfully bow out of this discourse.


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## Branflakes

wilkeliza said:


> This is the thought process I don't get. No amount of laws or rules or media is going to stop a pedophile from doing what they want to do. So are you in favor of checking everyone's birth certificate and ID or asking them to show their junk to a guard before they can pee? Someone who wants to do bad knows how to do it with out being told. If it was the media causing pedophiles to get ideas we would see a rise in cases and there have been 0. Heck crime is actually lowering every year.



This takes what I said and blows it out of proportion. Which is typical of this subject matter unfortunately. A pervert would most certainly feel empowered by a law that allows them to legally use an opposite sex restroom. Why? Because the law says they can. Therefore, no fear of being caught. No hiding. Even more in plain sight. Less sneaking around. This creates a general fear for parents. And anyone else in general. Fear is the issue. We can agree to disagree. I hear about this issue constantly in my community. It's not so black and white.


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## StageTek

Someone is going to feel uncomfortable. I feel we need to take ALL feelings into consideration. If a teenage girl is uncomfortable seeing a biological male who identifies as a woman in the bathroom she should not be shamed and her feelings should not be dismissed. If an adult male who identifies as a woman is in the "mens" room he should not be shamed or made to feel uncomfortable. No one should be told, "Get over it."


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## Westcoastwild

StageTek said:


> Someone is going to feel uncomfortable. I feel we need to take ALL feelings into consideration. If a teenage girl is uncomfortable seeing a biological male who identifies as a woman in the bathroom she should not be shamed and her feelings should not be dismissed. If an adult male who identifies as a woman is in the "mens" room he should not be shamed or made to feel uncomfortable. No one should be told, "Get over it."



I don't think shaming is a part of this. I'm not even sure it's about discomfort. I think it's more about a safe space. Anyone should be able to use any bathroom safely. If there's a risk of exposure, then I think the problem is not men in women's bathrooms or women in men's bathrooms- the problem is design of the restroom. I'd be perfectly ok if they did gender neutral "closet toilets" with sinks outside.

I guess that's what I don't get. Every time this comes up it becomes "blame the transgender person". Not blame the bathroom designer or the business owner for building those bathrooms. Because this isn't an issue in other parts of the world.


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## wilkeliza

Branflakes said:


> This takes what I said and blows it out of proportion. Which is typical of this subject matter unfortunately. A pervert would most certainly feel empowered by a law that allows them to legally use an opposite sex restroom. Why? Because the law says they can. Therefore, no fear of being caught. No hiding. Even more in plain sight. Less sneaking around. This creates a general fear for parents. And anyone else in general. Fear is the issue. We can agree to disagree. I hear about this issue constantly in my community. It's not so black and white.



The thing is the law would not be empowering them. You can't just decide one day you are transgender and walk into whatever bathroom you want. Anyone who does that is taking advantage of the situation and would have done it anyways.


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## cruisehopeful

Some of the comments have been interesting to me. I think *nobody* wants a pedophile or sexual deviant in the restroom when they are using the restroom. It has nothing to do with gender identity. I don't see any correlation at all and I don't understand why one would have anything to do with the other. 

Meanwhile, knowing the suicide rate is around 50% for transgender individuals, why in the world would anyone want to make a transgender person feel bad by being told they have to use the wrong restroom? I don't understand why someone would prefer that someone feel so bad that they want to commit suicide rather than let them use the toilet they are most comfortable with and support them with doing everything they possibly could to feel better about themselves and not feel suicidal.


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## Westcoastwild

cruisehopeful said:


> Some of the comments have been interesting to me. I think *nobody* wants a pedophile or sexual deviant in the restroom when they are using the restroom. It has nothing to do with gender identity. I don't see any correlation at all and I don't understand why one would have anything to do with the other.
> 
> Meanwhile, knowing the suicide rate is around 50% for transgender individuals, why in the world would anyone want to make a transgender person feel bad by being told they have to use the wrong restroom? I don't understand why someone would prefer that someone feel so bad that they want to commit suicide rather than let them use the toilet they are most comfortable with and support them with doing everything they possibly could to feel better about themselves and not feel suicidal.



ALL OF THIS I know, right? I don't want any creep or predator in any restroom I'm using. Gender does not determine criminal tendencies.


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## StageTek

I am open to using the words that work. I'll amend my comment:

Someone is going to feel unsafe. If a teenage girl feels unsafe using a public restroom with a biological male who identifies as a woman her feelings are valid and should be treated with respect. A biological male who identifies as a woman should be able to feel safe using the "mens" restroom. What I don't get are those who blame the cisgender as intolerant.


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## Hannahinwonderland

This entire argument is based off a false, socially constructed idea that there are only two genders and everyone perfectly matches into one of these two gender categories.  That's just not the case. The fact is that people who don't fit neatly into one of those categories still need to use the bathroom safely and comfortably. Basing bathrooms off "biology" is just dumb. Everyone has a different biological makeup, and only some people actually fit, 100%, the biological sex characteristics of  "their gender". 

Short of literally genetically testing people to see what their chromosomes look like, there is no way to sort people into those categories before they use the restroom. As many have said, "keeping pedophiles out" is a straw man... no one is going to show up in a wig and heels so they can prey on innocent little girls in the bathroom....a pedophile is going to walk in and kidnap a little girl if that's what they want to do. Women and men can both be predators. 

The real issue is that people feel uncomfortable with things that they do not understand. Transgender people do NOT want anyone calling attention to them in the bathroom. A trans woman who has a tall, masculine frame but is wearing a skirt and makeup is not going to feel comfortable or safe in the men's room, they aren't male. If you are opposed to this, I just ask you to consider the idea that transgender people are humans like all of us who literally just want to do their business. 

I'd rather eliminate the gender dichotomy all together, but obviously we aren't going to, and we are not going to replace all bathrooms with gender neutral ones. So therefore, I sure wish that we could get to a place in society where everyone could use the bathroom that they feel safe and comfortable in, that *most* aligns with the gender that they identify with. There should also be a single-stall bathroom for those with disabilities, need privacy, families, or don't feel comfortable using any gendered bathroom, and they should be widely available and not tucked into a vague corner of the park etc.  I'm sorry if someone feels uncomfortable with the idea that there might be a piece of junk that doesn't match what they have in the bathroom at the same time as them, but that person's discomfort is not worth completely degrading another person's life or endangering their safety. Walk in, do your business, wash your hands, leave. I would be willing to bet the transgender person is trying to do the exact same thing.


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## Westcoastwild

Hannahinwonderland said:


> This entire argument is based off a false, socially constructed idea that there are only two genders and everyone perfectly matches into one of these two gender categories.  That's just not the case. The fact is that people who don't fit neatly into one of those categories still need to use the bathroom safely and comfortably. Basing bathrooms off "biology" is just dumb. Everyone has a different biological makeup, and only some people actually fit, 100%, the biological sex characteristics of  "their gender".
> 
> Short of literally genetically testing people to see what their chromosomes look like, there is no way to sort people into those categories before they use the restroom. As many have said, "keeping pedophiles out" is a straw man... no one is going to show up in a wig and heels so they can prey on innocent little girls in the bathroom....a pedophile is going to walk in and kidnap a little girl if that's what they want to do. Women and men can both be predators.
> 
> The real issue is that people feel uncomfortable with things that they do not understand. Transgender people do NOT want anyone calling attention to them in the bathroom. A trans woman who has a tall, masculine frame but is wearing a skirt and makeup is not going to feel comfortable or safe in the men's room, they aren't male. If you are opposed to this, I just ask you to consider the idea that transgender people are humans like all of us who literally just want to do their business.
> 
> I'd rather eliminate the gender dichotomy all together, but obviously we aren't going to, and we are not going to replace all bathrooms with gender neutral ones. So therefore, I sure wish that we could get to a place in society where everyone could use the bathroom that they feel safe and comfortable in, that *most* aligns with the gender that they identify with. There should also be a single-stall bathroom for those with disabilities, need privacy, families, or don't feel comfortable using any gendered bathroom, and they should be widely available and not tucked into a vague corner of the park etc.  I'm sorry if someone feels uncomfortable with the idea that there might be a piece of junk that doesn't match what they have in the bathroom at the same time as them, but that person's discomfort is not worth completely degrading another person's life or endangering their safety. Walk in, do your business, wash your hands, leave. I would be willing to bet the transgender person is trying to do the exact same thing.



Yep. Right. I think the main difference is that some people on this thread see a trans woman using a female restroom as a male using a female restroom. That isn't the case.

The cis gender people who are "uncomfortable" sharing a bathroom with transgender folks and want to ban them from using the restroom on account of that ARE intolerant. Because their mindset is the problem. They think the transgender individual is a danger to them simply on the basis that they are transgender. What else would you call that? I can't report another individual for making me uncomfortable by their very presence. A homeless lady in the public bathroom? Makes me a little uncomfortable, I'm going to be honest. But unless she's actively doing something that endangers the rest of us, I'd look like a total idiot for going to management and saying "um...there's a badly dressed woman with poor hygiene in the bathroom."


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## wilkeliza

StageTek said:


> I am open to using the words that work. I'll amend my comment:
> 
> Someone is going to feel unsafe. If a teenage girl feels unsafe using a public restroom with a biological male who identifies as a woman her feelings are valid and should be treated with respect. A biological male who identifies as a woman should be able to feel safe using the "mens" restroom. What I don't get are those who blame the cisgender as intolerant.



So in your situation where does the F to M who looks very masculine go? He goes into the female bathroom because that is what He is biologically but now teenage girl feels unsafe. He goes to the male bathroom but patrons are making a big deal that they know he isn't manly enough to be a man so much be transgender and they can't wait to show him his place. Yes a teenage girl can feel uncomfortable but again why not open the discussion on why she was uncomfortable. Did she see the M to F and assume this lady wasn't woman enough so much be a man is only in the bathroom and out to get her or is she uncomfortable because this person is peeking in the bathrooms and showing everyone her junk? If it is the second one then of course that is wrong and the girl is perfectly acceptable in being uncomfortable. IF it is the mere fact that she assumes this other person has a ***** then why not discuss why she felt that and what about the opposite biological parts instantly makes her uncomfortable when there is no threat of violence?


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## Shanti

old lady said:


> What is your take on this subject? Does Disney take on this? I prefer transgender to have family restrooms since they do deserve privacy.


Everyone deserves privacy while going to the restroom. Disney is a business, not a political entity, and as long as people aren't causing a problem they don't care about this. If a person identifies/presents themselves as a woman, they are welcome to use the women's restroom, and vice versa for the men's room. No one at WDW (employee or guest) is going to demand to see their privates or anything.


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## StageTek

I guess I am not as clear as I would hope to be. I hoped it was clear that in using the examples I used I was saying that everyone deserves to be treated with respect and their feelings acknowledged. Opening the discussion on why people are uncomfortable is a great idea. Why does an AMAB who identifies as female feel uncomfortable in the mens room?


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## Westcoastwild

StageTek said:


> I guess I am not as clear as I would hope to be. I hoped it was clear that in using the examples I used I was saying that everyone deserves to be treated with respect and their feelings acknowledged. Opening the discussion on why people are uncomfortable is a great idea. Why does an AMAB who identifies as female feel uncomfortable in the mens room?



I think that if you have to ask that, you aren't taking into account social/cultural context at all. I'm always deeply impressed by transgender women's courage. To come out and say that you're transgender at all is to basically put a big ol' bullseye on your back in many areas of the US. To merely be a woman makes one a target in some places. Not fair or right, but it's the reality. I am the last person to say that I need a traveling companion or a spouse to keep safe. But there are situations in which I will absolutely ask security to escort me to my car, or ask a traveling companion to come out to the bar with me. So yes, I completely understand why a transgender woman would feel uncomfortable using a men's restroom or lockerroom.

As a woman, if I go into a male restroom I might get some weird looks. If a transgender woman did the same, there is likely zero chance that people would stop at that. Up thread, someone mentions a case in which a lady questioned someone's use of the restroom just based on the fact she didn't "look" like a stereotypical woman. People are nuts about this.

Here's a question I'm genuinely curious about. Say you've got your 5 year old son in the woman's changing room. I take off my swimsuit and change into my dry clothes. You chastise me for showing my boobs near your son. I say if he's old enough to notice boobs, he's old enough for me to not want him in the same locker room. Who's right? 

And to be perfectly clear: No, I wasn't doing some kind of strip dance. No, I could not have used a toilet stall- people were changing their kids in those. And no matter which way that kid looked, he would have seen boobs. I was just the person next to his mother on the bench. I don't have a problem with the kid being there. I have a problem with the mother's expectation that the kid should be "protected" from seeing a naked lady in a female changing room.


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## wilkeliza

StageTek said:


> I guess I am not as clear as I would hope to be. I hoped it was clear that in using the examples I used I was saying that everyone deserves to be treated with respect and their feelings acknowledged. Opening the discussion on why people are uncomfortable is a great idea. Why does an AMAB who identifies as female feel uncomfortable in the mens room?



Most of the time it is because if they are passing as female MtF then men in the room make comments and sexualy harass them. It does get complex in early phases of transition or an MtF that is not "passing" and most of the wonderful people in that situation understand the issue and often will seal out facilities with single stall bathrooms to mitigate the issue.


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## dvcdream4fld

This is where you go poop and pee.  Does this really matter that much?   Go into the bathroom and do your business. I think most people aren't interested in being in their why you do your business.  I know I do even want to be in the bathroom some takes a poop no matter what gender identity.  The fact that people have so much time on their hands to worry about where they are going to relieve themselves is just crazy to me.  I say we just get rid of all the bathrooms and poop outside.  Then nobody will get there feelings hurt.


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## StageTek

Westcoastwild said:


> I think that if you have to ask that, you aren't taking into account social/cultural context at all.


Thus my interest. It's acceptable (even essential) to ask the cicgendered person why they are uncomfortable. It is socially/culturally insensitive to ask a transgender person the same thing.

I ask because I'm curious, interested and open to learn. Not because I am not taking into account social/cultural context. As social/cultural context changes and grows I have to ask BECAUSE I take those things into context.


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## cruisehopeful

StageTek said:


> Thus my interest. It's acceptable (even essential) to ask the cicgendered person why they are uncomfortable. It is socially/culturally insensitive to ask a transgender person the same thing.
> 
> I ask because I'm curious, interested and open to learn. Not because I am not taking into account social/cultural context. As social/cultural context changes and grows I have to ask BECAUSE I take those things into context.


I liken it to asking a black person why they are uncomfortable using the "colored" restroom. We can ask a white person why they are uncomfortable using the "colored" restroom and it would not be an insensitive question. However, if we ask the same question to a black person, we are being insensitive because it is completely insensitive to tell them that they are different from white people and therefore have a different restroom and expect them to explain why they aren't comfortable with that.

Asking a transgender person why they aren't comfortable using the opposite gender restroom is like telling them that they are different from everyone else of their gender class. It is a very insensitive and prejudice question.


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## Westcoastwild

dvcdream4fld said:


> This is where you go poop and pee.  Does this really matter that much?   Go into the bathroom and do your business. I think most people aren't interested in being in their why you do your business.  I know I do even want to be in the bathroom some takes a poop no matter what gender identity.  The fact that people have so much time on their hands to worry about where they are going to relieve themselves is just crazy to me.  I say we just get rid of all the bathrooms and poop outside.  Then nobody will get there feelings hurt.



Unforfutunately that option is not open to us due to the 1913 Treaty between the ursine nation and the United confederation of **** Sapiens. It gave ursines the sole right to determine who can and can't defecate in the woods. Unfortunately, due to **** sapien's extensive use of "bear lockers", they have been excluded from the outdoors bodily relief initiative.


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## StageTek

That is sad to me. I am interested in learning how people feel. My intent is to become more aware and more sensitive and more understanding. However by just asking I am insensitive and even prejudice. So I will not ask. I apologize to all I have offended.


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## disneyygirrl

Kingdome8 said:


> I think it's wrong u went into men's room.  Sorry your line is long.  Lol.  As a man if I go in women's room I would be screamed at and called a weirdo. It is just a dumb issue



You're scared of perverts... you're escorting your five year old child to the bathroom and not leaving them alone, so I think you're safe there...?


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## disneyygirrl

dvcdream4fld said:


> This is where you go poop and pee.  Does this really matter that much?   Go into the bathroom and do your business. I think most people aren't interested in being in their why you do your business.  I know I do even want to be in the bathroom some takes a poop no matter what gender identity.  The fact that people have so much time on their hands to worry about where they are going to relieve themselves is just crazy to me.  I say we just get rid of all the bathrooms and poop outside.  Then nobody will get there feelings hurt.



It does really matter that much. Unfortunately, those who identify as transgender fall victim to violence far too often. Each year, the statistics increase.


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## wilkeliza

StageTek said:


> That is sad to me. I am interested in learning how people feel. My intent is to become more aware and more sensitive and more understanding. However by just asking I am insensitive and even prejudice. So I will not ask. I apologize to all I have offended.



The reason a transgender would be uncomfortable in the bathroom of their birth-gender is because it would be the same as a ciswoman being in the men's bathroom. By forcing them to use their birth gender bathroom they are no longer recognized as their true identity. Imagine if someone who looked just like the 15 year old girl you discussed early was forced to use the men's restroom and deal with taunts and sexual comments every day? It is even more jarring the other way. If a F to M was to be forced to use the bathroom of their birth gender then how would anyone ever tell who is a transman or cisman? This poor human would be shrieked at every time the peed in public because they are being forced to use a bathroom that doesn't match who they are and how they are presenting themselves. In turn by trying to follow the law or previeved social contract/norm they are making what is a bodily function one of the most stressful parts of their life.


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## Westcoastwild

wilkeliza said:


> The reason a transgender would be uncomfortable in the bathroom of their birthgender is because it would be the same as a ciswoman being in the men's bathroom. By forcing them to use their birth gender bathroom they are no linger recognized as their true identity. Imagine if someone who looked just like the 15 year old girl you discussed early was forced to use the men's restroom and deal with taunts and sexual comments every day? It is even more jaring the other way. If a F to M was to be forced to use the bathroom of their birth gender then how would anyone ever tell who is a transman or cisman? This poor human would be shrieked at every time the peed in public because they are being forced to use a bathroom that doesn't match who they are and how they are presenting themselves. In turn by trying to follow the law or previeved social contract/norm they are making what is a bodily function one of the most stressful parts of their life.





Somehow, this argument always comes down  "won't someone think of the children" for the people against unisex bathrooms. Perverts and children. As if a sign could keep perverts out. As if predators are all men. As if bathrooms are high risk areas to begin with.  As if seeing another human naked will scar a kid for life anyway.

I don't mind having an open discussion about why it makes people personally uncomfortable. I just don't care for how they always play that particular card.


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## wilkeliza

Westcoastwild said:


> Love the response, but stagetek doesn't want to know. He/she just wants to normalize his/her intolerant viewpoint. It's all in how it's written- there is no reason to cite specify teenage girl that original post except for the emotional appeal. "Won't someone think of the children?"
> 
> That, somehow, is what this argument always comes down to for the people against unisex bathrooms. Perverts and children. As if a sign could keep perverts out. As if predators are all men. As if bathrooms are high risk areas to begin with.  As if seeing another human naked will scar a kid for life anyway.



I'll admit I've taken the answer the question and don't call names to try and get the other side to see. I know a lot of times it isn't out of a genuine want to learn and change but I figure just in case as an ally of transgender individuals that maybe somethin I say will sink in.


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## Westcoastwild

wilkeliza said:


> I'll admit I've taken the answer the question and don't call names to try and get the other side to see. I know a lot of times it isn't out of a genuine want to learn and change but I figure just in case as an ally of transgender individuals that maybe somethin I say will sink in.



Ah, right. Makes sense. I'll edit my previous remark to aid in creating positivity. That poster's last post just made me mad. The misunderstood victim card was a lousy move.


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## LongLiveRafiki

The following are my opinions as a non-trans woman (I hate the word cisgender because it sounds like we are being referred to as sissies- just my observation)

I would like to see all bathooms have completely private stalls. I feel uncomfortable as a woman at times in the restroom with other women because I can't tell you the number of times women have bent down to peek under the stall or peeked through the crack to check if someone is in there. Plenty of times there are stalls with the lock broken and all the others are filled and you really have to go so you try to hold the door closed with your foot, but if someone gave it a little push, it will open. Or you think the door is locked but a push from someone still opens it. My brother said that in his high school, which also happens to be in an upper middle class district, most of the stall doors in the men's room are completely missing. Apparently kids kept breaking them off and the school got sick of replacing them. There is no privacy there. Also, this is probably more of a thing with women, but they are frequently on the phone in the restroom, which makes me uncomfortable because they most likely aren't doing anything creepy, but you don't know for sure if they are taking pictures or videos. Heck, where I live, it is very popular for females to take selfies in the bathroom. If the stalls were fully enclosed, all of these problems could be eliminated. I would like to see all changing tables in a private area as well. Frequently while changing my kids in public restrooms, women would come over to peek at the baby. I understand that they probably aren't trying to be creepy, they just want to see the baby's face, but it's still really freaking creepy having someone hovering over you telling you how cute your baby is when you're trying to change their diaper. My issue isn't with transgenders but the design of the bathrooms, and as stated, I have this problem with restrooms even if you take trans people out of the equation. 

Since this huge media spectacle, there have been several reported cases of men dressed as women going into women's restrooms, fitting rooms, and locker rooms and taking pictures or video. I have no idea if these people are actually trans or just pervs, either way it is wrong, but it does seem to be more of a reported issue since the media bathroom debacle. It would be equally wrong for a woman to do the same thing in the woman's room. I have not however heard stories of that yet, but it doesn't mean it can't/won't/doesn't happen. But there have also been a few cases of people pretending to be trans (and saying they really arent) and going into the opposite gender's bathroom and recording it for a social experiment to see how they are treated, which is wrong on sooo many levels. First off, you just plain should not ever be taking pictures or video in the freaking bathroom. Secondly, it makes it harder for some people to be accepting of trans people in the bathroom if people who are not trans are going in the opposite gender bathroom for a social experiment. It is one thing to allow transgenders to use the bathroom they are comfortable in, but when you have people who are not trans going in just to see how people react, it feels like they are just exploiting the issue and it does make people more uncomfortable around someone appearing to be trans because then they wonder if they actually are trans or are just in there for a social experiment. I feel that this bathroom issue has gotten to the point that anyone, regardless of gender identity, feels they can go in whichever bathroom they choose, so again, I think we need to change the design to have fully enclosed stalls. Same with fitting rooms.

When it comes to locker rooms, I think they need a complete overhaul, especially if they are to accommodate trans people who have not had a sex change. There needs to be more private areas to change, shower, etc. I absolutely would feel uncomfortable with someone with male parts openly showering or changing around me in the locker room. Their gender identity is irrelevant at that point. The purpose of having gendered spaces such as locker rooms is to give some modicum of safety and privacy while undressing from those with different parts. It would be difficult to determine when a M2F trans is naked that they are trans if they are pre sex change. Am I supposed to assume they are trans and not be concerned? What if they are not trans and just a guy, would people still be okay with that? At that point, there's no reason to even have a building to change in if everyone is allowed wherever they choose. For women who have been sexually assaulted, I can definitely understand how they would feel unsafe having a man undressing in front of them as that can trigger painful memories. They have a right to be in a locker room they feel safe in. I personally dont like when women shower or change that openly either. It definitely makes it difficult taking my young son in there if his dad is not with us because I don't think he needs to see naked women. There is no way I would have allowed my daughter at any age in the men's locker room (with her dad). No, I'm not religious, I just feel that it is a parent's right to determine when to expose their children to sexuality and I don't feel society should dictate EVER that it is an appropriate time for my child to see a stranger's genitalia. I know my daughter would be freaked out if she went into the locker room at the pool, water park, etc and saw someone with male parts. Yes, I could talk to her and explain about transgenders, but young kids are not going to fully understand such a complex issue as a man who is really a woman but has a man's parts is allowed to be naked in here and it's okay because that's really a woman. There's no way she would understand or feel comfortable with that and I do think it would be messed up to expect her to suck it up and deal with it. Her comfort is just as important as everyone else's.

To sum up, I think all bathooms, fitting rooms, and locker rooms need to be redesigned for more privacy. My biggest concern with transgenders (if they have not had a full sex change) lies in the locker rooms where there can be complete nakedness. Everyone, regardless of gender identity, deserves a place where they feel comfortable. I certainly do not want a trans person to feel uncomfortable in any facility, but non-trans people have the same rights to feel comfortable. It does bother me how some people feel the need to throw labels of intolerant or transphobic when it comes to this issue. Sure, there are some people who are, but many people just want some privacy. Just because someone is uncomfortable does not ultimately mean they are intolerant. All of these issues could be solved if there were completely enclosed stalls/showers/changing areas in all facilities. Until that happens, regardless of gender identity and which restroom you're in, I wish people would respect one another's privacy and NOT peek through the stall cracks or underneath to assess if it's occupied or push on a stall door that you don't know for sure is empty. Simply ask if there's someone in there. Give people privacy when changing a baby's diaper. And be respectful of others rights to privacy in locker rooms. Lastly, I wish everyone would stop judging and labelling anyone who holds an opposing opinion. There are ways to solve this bathroom issue without invalidating people's rights to privacy and comfort, and no one should be made to feel guilty for being uncomfortable in a bathroom/ fitting room/locker room regardless of their gender identity.


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## Smittolis

As with many things, communication leads to education. This thread is a prime example as to how the opportunity to educate people who are willing to learn has been passed up in favor of hostile engagement and an attempt to invalidate others personal experiences.


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## MetalMasterC

There is a lot to take in, and I want to break this down and keep it brief. So I will point out some flaws and points. My disclaimer here is that I DO NOT SPEAK FOR ALL TRANS PEOPLE, as some may have different opinions on this. However, having many friends that are (as well as myself), this is what I noted:



LongLiveRafiki said:


> The following are my opinions as a non-trans woman (I hate the word cisgender because it sounds like we are being referred to as sissies- just my observation)



Just a word of note: Just reading alone that you are a not trans, makes it pretty likely that anything you say here would be irrelevant in the eyes of most trans persons, seeing as you aren't trans. So this is why I feel I can help along your message and will break this down from me: someone who is non-conforming.



LongLiveRafiki said:


> I would like to see all bathrooms have completely private stalls. *SNIP* My issue isn't with transgenders but the design of the bathrooms, and as stated, I have this problem with restrooms even if you take trans people out of the equation.



Some of this sounds like more of paranoia on your part. It also breaks down to how the stalls are maintained. A good, well-maintained bathroom is already private enough. No one wants to be seen pooping or peeing anyway, and it has nothing to do with gender in that instance. Privacy differs from person to person. The issue with trans people and bathrooms has more to do about genetics and assumptions, not privacy.



LongLiveRafiki said:


> Since this huge media spectacle, there have been several reported cases of men dressed as women going into women's restrooms, fitting rooms, and locker rooms and taking pictures or video. I have no idea if these people are actually trans or just pervs, either way it is wrong, but it does seem to be more of a reported issue since the media bathroom debacle. It would be equally wrong for a woman to do the same thing in the woman's room. I have not however heard stories of that yet, but it doesn't mean it can't/won't/doesn't happen. But there have also been a few cases of people pretending to be trans (and saying they really arent) and going into the opposite gender's bathroom and recording it for a social experiment to see how they are treated, which is wrong on sooo many levels. First off, you just plain should not ever be taking pictures or video in the freaking bathroom. Secondly, it makes it harder for some people to be accepting of trans people in the bathroom if people who are not trans are going in the opposite gender bathroom for a social experiment. *SNIP*



Anyone can say the person is a "man" in "women's clothing" and feel like they are being spied on. I've only ever seen one or two do this for their "social experiment" and these have been people who are transphobic to begin with and only want to "prove" some point that didn't need to be proven. It seems like this is all of a sudden an issue BECAUSE of the media attention it's getting. There was an instance of a cis-woman being berated by another cis-woman after being accused of being a man and entering the women's restroom. This woman has been on YouTube to share her story. Can't find the link though.



LongLiveRafiki said:


> When it comes to locker rooms, I think they need a complete overhaul, especially if they are to accommodate trans people who have not had a sex change. There needs to be more private areas to change, shower, etc. I absolutely would feel uncomfortable with someone with male parts openly showering or changing around me in the locker room. Their gender identity is irrelevant at that point. The purpose of having gendered spaces such as locker rooms is to give some modicum of safety and privacy while undressing from those with different parts. It would be difficult to determine when a M2F trans is naked that they are trans if they are pre sex change. Am I supposed to assume they are trans and not be concerned? What if they are not trans and just a guy, would people still be okay with that? At that point, there's no reason to even have a building to change in if everyone is allowed wherever they choose. For women who have been sexually assaulted, I can definitely understand how they would feel unsafe having a man undressing in front of them as that can trigger painful memories. They have a right to be in a locker room they feel safe in.



Society still defines gender, sex, and genetics on a person's body parts. It's a social construct that has become part of our Societal Standard over the many years and it's something that needs some tweaking. It's tough for people who can't afford to or can't have (for health reasons and such) GRS, as they won't feel a part of the peer group they feel most aligned with. For some, that could trigger dysphoria. Even by separating locker rooms to be more private for both parties will still make those who are trans feel like they don't belong. So that becomes a grey area.



LongLiveRafiki said:


> I personally dont like when women shower or change that openly either. It definitely makes it difficult taking my young son in there if his dad is not with us because I don't think he needs to see naked women. There is no way I would have allowed my daughter at any age in the men's locker room (with her dad). No, I'm not religious, I just feel that it is a parent's right to determine when to expose their children to sexuality and I don't feel society should dictate EVER that it is an appropriate time for my child to see a stranger's genitalia. I know my daughter would be freaked out if she went into the locker room at the pool, water park, etc and saw someone with male parts. Yes, I could talk to her and explain about transgenders, but young kids are not going to fully understand such a complex issue as a man who is really a woman but has a man's parts is allowed to be naked in here and it's okay because that's really a woman. There's no way she would understand or feel comfortable with that and I do think it would be messed up to expect her to suck it up and deal with it. Her comfort is just as important as everyone else's.



I don't want to sit here and tell anyone how to raise their kids, but when sexuality and those curiosities come along, the child makes that decision. They look to you for answers. They are putting that trust in you. They will have those questions whether they are 9, 13, or 17 years old. Many children make this discovery about themselves long before 9 years of age. A parent doesn't decide when a kid is ready for knowledge about their bodies.

You say young kids won't understand, but you'd be surprised. Younger people are actually more understanding of a lot if you just explain it to them concisely. A lot of the "fear" that some children have is based upon media, and/or influence of others (could be family members or institutions). A lot of that fear carries over from generation to generation.



LongLiveRafiki said:


> To sum up, I think all bathooms, fitting rooms, and locker rooms need to be redesigned for more privacy. My biggest concern with transgenders (if they have not had a full sex change) lies in the locker rooms where there can be complete nakedness. Everyone, regardless of gender identity, deserves a place where they feel comfortable. I certainly do not want a trans person to feel uncomfortable in any facility, but non-trans people have the same rights to feel comfortable.*SNIP*



While I do agree that we need to tweak how bathrooms and locker rooms are designed, it still doesn't change that society will always look at your body parts and DNA to decide who you are to society rather than the person inside. Again, stemming from societal constructs. The comfort many "non-trans" people want can be massively oppressive to those who are trans. Their comfort is based more upon not accepting that trans people are different, with different body parts, therefore defining them into certain gender roles. A man/woman is a man/woman, no matter the body parts.

Down the line, someone is going to be uncomfortable. Someone is going to have some sort of issue. It's one thing to be uncomfortable in public restrooms or changing rooms in general, no matter what the gender. It's another to be uncomfortable in the same space because of someone's build, gender, or body parts. That, I feel, is the real issue.

A lot of what you say does make some sense, but I get from most of this is paranoia on a personal level, outside of anything gender related. The world stops for no one and there are some things many people on either side have to deal with. That would be equivalent someone who is a recovering bulimic and doesn't want anyone to eat in front of them. There are times where people can't get away from PTSD situations.

I hope this helps anyone looking at this get some sort of understanding or information. I would like to hope there is anyone who is trans add on to, or correct, anything I have mentioned here. Again, I don't speak for everyone who is trans.

_On a side note:_ One of the biggest things I have noticed is a lot pertaining to these issues are related more on MtF. Not so much FtM. In the Societal Standard, males are more revered. So when a genetic male represents themselves as something other than that Standard, it's an insult to all men and the society around them. It's a form of toxic masculinity. It seems like very rarely, FtM have much of an issue with restrooms. I could be wrong, and I hope someone steps forward with some helpful information.


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## Grmnshplvr

As the mother of a transgender son, and someone who has gotten to know several people of trans experience over the last year and a half I just wanted to add a note about the locker room issue.  Majority of transgender people (I wont say all, but if I had to guess I'd say 99.9%) would rather die than anyone see them naked.  The showers and locker rooms are really a non-issue.  A transwoman who wants nothing more than to be seen as a woman is not going to walk around naked in a women's locker room/shower.

As far as the bathrooms go, if you're afraid of pedophiles using the restroom then ban them from using the restroom and leave transgender people out of it.  Everyone is concerned about pedophiles in the women's bathroom yet never seem too concerned that right now they can use the mens with little boys....I wonder why that is.

Most likely its because they know its very rare that someone will be assaulted in a public restroom, because its a PUBLIC restroom, so in the end its just another excuse to shun transgender people because its easier than trying to understand something different.

Also, transgendered is not a word.  You cannot be transgendered.  I can also say in my 35 years of life and using public restrooms I have yet to see a ***** or anyone else's ******...so there's that.

I guess the proper name for our genitals is not allow on the disboards, but you get the point.


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## fabfemmeboy

Rather than the more philosophical approach, since you did ask about Disney's take on it, IME they don't hassle anyone about it.  Although Florida's law is not particularly trans-friendly, at both WDW and DL my partner and I (both trans and pretty androgynous) have used both sets of restrooms without anyone saying anything.  Honestly there are so many people going in and out who are preoccupied with their own families that people give us far less trouble at Disney than elsewhere.  My understanding is that Disney policy is that trans-identified people are allowed to use the restroom that best matches their identity, but CMs can correct me.


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## Moxiepup

Westcoastwild said:


> I just wanted to say and About the galactic nights thing.
> 
> What stumps me is the people who want to wonder over that sort of thing. Like how do you plan to get evidence that ISN'T a girl? Peek through the crack? Demand to see a drivers license? Ask outright? I mean I'm not going to show any stranger in a public restroom proof of my gender on demand.
> 
> And then there's the whole thing that you can't tell someone's sexuality just by looking at them. That never seems to cross the mind of people that I've met who worry about transgenders using the "wrong" restroom.  I personally think you're more likely to be ogled by a lesbian than a transgender in the ladies restroom but what do I know. If anyone does ogle others in bathrooms. That is generally the furthest thing from my mind when I'm using the facilities.



While I can't speak for all lesbians, I can say for myself and every lesbian I know that we do not want to ogle anyone in the restroom. That is just nasty! Honestly, I think the people most likely to ogle others in a restroom are men so deep in the closet that they can't acknowledge their sexuality even to themselves. Women, gay or straight, just don't see restrooms as a romantic place.


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## Prose

And once again the OP drops a controversial question and runs...


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## DantePD

Westcoastwild said:


> Somehow, this argument always comes down  "won't someone think of the children" for the people against unisex bathrooms. Perverts and children. As if a sign could keep perverts out. As if predators are all men. As if bathrooms are high risk areas to begin with.  As if seeing another human naked will scar a kid for life anyway.
> 
> I don't mind having an open discussion about why it makes people personally uncomfortable. I just don't care for how they always play that particular card.



It's called a "Dog Whistle", it's used when a bigot wants to say their bigoted thing and then claim to not be a bigot.


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## OSUPhantom

Does Disney have a policy on gender-inclusive/trans accommodation in bathrooms? I certainly hope so, as a member of the LGBT community I've always felt safe at Disney and hope they have trans-friendly policies as well. 

I'll also refrain from responding to the scare-tactics on "I don't want my daughters next to a man" comments.


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## Chuck S

I don't think Disney has a particular policy.  My elderly Mom and I used to go often during gay days, and I know she came out of a restroom once, gave a little chuckle and said that the person in the stall next to her was a male crossdresser. (Mom was in her 80s, and Trans probably wasn't on her radar).  It didn't bother her at all, and really since the stalls have latch-able doors, it shouldn't bother anyone.


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## robinb

Prose said:


> And once again the OP drops a controversial question and runs...


I call them "pigeon posts" ... like a pigeon who flies in to drop a big one and then flies away.


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## siskaren

robinb said:


> I call them "pigeon posts" ... like a pigeon who flies in to drop a big one and then flies away.



I call her a drive-by poster.


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## SorryI'mNotSorry

I think gendered bathrooms are senseless anyway. Just make a bathroom labeled "People" and there ya be.


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## ThistleMae

Very interesting conversations.  What does cis gender mean?  Never heard this term before.  Obviously this can be an extremely challenging subject with many varying points of view.  I would like to think this topic is mostly about bathroom privacy, not gender identity, but it brings up lots of fears for folks apparently.  I don't pay much attention to whose in the bathroom but whether there is a stall available or not.  Fear is a terrible way to live.


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## DantePD

Short version (Note, I'm not trans, I'm a cis gendered gay male), cis gender means one's biological gender and what you present/identify as matches up.


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## cruisehopeful

ThistleMae said:


> What does cis gender mean?


It just means not transgender. So, if you aren't transgender, you are cis gender.


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## DrunkJam

Honestly, all it needs is that all restrooms have all stalls (like women's toilets already do) if everyone used a toilet within a lockable stall, surely it wouldn't matter what their plumbing looked like? Plus SOME of the disability companion issues would be solved, and all of the taking an opposite gender child to the bathroom problems would be solved, and everyone would be comfortable, because, if not, why the hell are you looking in the stall someone else is using to find out what they keep in their pants?


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## ThistleMae

cruisehopeful said:


> It just means not transgender. So, if you aren't transgender, you are cis gender.


Sorry for being so ignorant but I want to be educated.  So one would be transgender if they have had surgery but a cis gender if you haven't had surgery and identify as the opposite sex?  Perhaps there should be a whole topic on this part so we can speak intelligently on the matter.


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## SirDuff

cruisehopeful said:


> It just means not transgender. So, if you aren't transgender, you are cis gender.



Isn't there more than than cis- and transgender?  Gender fluid for example.  Or Two-Spirit?  Or Gender Queer?  Or do those all fall within transgender?

ETA - Sorry if this came across as argumentative.  Like Thistlemae, I'm trying to get/keep informed on this, so I may be asking what seems like a stupid/argumentative question.  I am not.


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## cruisehopeful

ThistleMae said:


> Sorry for being so ignorant but I want to be educated.  So one would be transgender if they have had surgery but a cis gender if you haven't had surgery and identify as the opposite sex?  Perhaps there should be a whole topic on this part so we can speak intelligently on the matter.





SirDuff said:


> Isn't there more than than cis- and transgender?  Gender fluid for example.  Or Two-Spirit?  Or Gender Queer?  Or do those all fall within transgender?
> 
> ETA - Sorry if this came across as argumentative.  Like Thistlemae, I'm trying to get/keep informed on this, so I may be asking what seems like a stupid/argumentative question.  I am not.


I don't know it all. I have a transgender daughter and she often tells me I am saying stuff wrong, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

Cisgender has nothing to do with surgery. If you feel like you are the gender that matches the sex you were born, you are cisgender. I am cisgender. I was born female and always felt like a female. Eh, always isn't exactly true - but, have never thought I was trapped in the wrong body or that I had severe depression because I didn't identify with my gender assigned at birth.

There are different types of gender and that is where I get totally lost. Gender fluid is different than non-binary, but I have no idea how. I just know in California, you can now get a driver's license that for gender says, "non-binary." I also don't fully understand gender queer and have never heard of two-spirit. 

A woman I know recently said her daughter came home from school with a paper describing all the different genders. Her daughter was fascinated and asked her mom about it. Her mom said there were only 2 genders and threw the paper out without looking at it. I told her that I really wish she had the paper and could have given it to me so I could read all the different types. Apparently there are schools in California educating the next generation about all of this stuff. Hopefully, some of the younger people who have all that knowledge will share it with us at some point because I only understand transgender and cisgender.


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## SirDuff

cruisehopeful said:


> have never heard of two-spirit.



It's a term used by some indigenous people in Canada (and, I assume, the US as well - and possibly other countries).  My understanding is that it differs from other definitions of sexuality and gender because it refers to having female/male/both spirits (as opposed to being about which gender one identifies as or who one is sexually interested in).  I know that some of my friends have added "T" to the LGBTQ+ initialism, but I'm not sure how widely spread that is (I've seen many different version of the acronym and I'm not sure which is the most widely accepted).

BTW - This page may be useful to you (I don't know the group that posted it, but it seems to match what I've heard/read for various terms).

http://ok2bme.ca/resources/kids-teens/what-does-lgbtq-mean/


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## ThistleMae

cruisehopeful said:


> I don't know it all. I have a transgender daughter and she often tells me I am saying stuff wrong, so take what I say with a grain of salt.
> 
> Cisgender has nothing to do with surgery. If you feel like you are the gender that matches the sex you were born, you are cisgender. I am cisgender. I was born female and always felt like a female. Eh, always isn't exactly true - but, have never thought I was trapped in the wrong body or that I had severe depression because I didn't identify with my gender assigned at birth.
> 
> There are different types of gender and that is where I get totally lost. Gender fluid is different than non-binary, but I have no idea how. I just know in California, you can now get a driver's license that for gender says, "non-binary." I also don't fully understand gender queer and have never heard of two-spirit.
> 
> A woman I know recently said her daughter came home from school with a paper describing all the different genders. Her daughter was fascinated and asked her mom about it. Her mom said there were only 2 genders and threw the paper out without looking at it. I told her that I really wish she had the paper and could have given it to me so I could read all the different types. Apparently there are schools in California educating the next generation about all of this stuff. Hopefully, some of the younger people who have all that knowledge will share it with us at some point because I only understand transgender and cisgender.


Wow...who knew.  Now I'm more confused than ever!  We need a list with definitions so I'm not totally ignorant.  I grew up with a gay best friend, and I did his makeup and hair.  He definitely felt as if he were a female but back then there was no talk of transgender or other terms.  Back then he would have been known as a drag queen, which I don't think was who he was, and probably didn't have the support to really help him understand.  He has since passed away, so I'm not able to talk to him about it.


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## ThistleMae

SirDuff said:


> It's a term used by some indigenous people in Canada (and, I assume, the US as well - and possibly other countries).  My understanding is that it differs from other definitions of sexuality and gender because it refers to having female/male/both spirits (as opposed to being about which gender one identifies as or who one is sexually interested in).  I know that some of my friends have added "T" to the LGBTQ+ initialism, but I'm not sure how widely spread that is (I've seen many different version of the acronym and I'm not sure which is the most widely accepted).
> 
> BTW - This page may be useful to you (I don't know the group that posted it, but it seems to match what I've heard/read for various terms).
> 
> http://ok2bme.ca/resources/kids-teens/what-does-lgbtq-mean/


Great website.  Thank you.  It definitely helps a lot, but some of the definitions seem to overlap, or seem to be the same.


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## smiths02

Branflakes said:


> The problem with the bathroom issue, is it's the few that will ruin it for the many. Like it is with pretty much any law or rule, that one didnt feel even needed addressing. And now, here we are. For ages now transgendered people have been using which ever restroom. The issue has become a fear, because of the one pervert who will use this "law" as a means to act upon their sick fantasies. And that is an issue for anyone. Mom dad gay straight trans etc. No one wants a pedophile being granted easier access to their gender of choice. The few nefarious cause the many to have fear.
> And I personally feel, anyone with whatever chosen gender, with any sense about them, doesn't want that.



For me out and about in public with my 11 year old boy and 4 year old boy and girl...I actually think it would be easier/safer if the restrooms were where either parent could go in with the child as necessary.  My 11 year old goes to the men's room by himself, but I worry about that WAY more than I worry about a transgender individual (or even a pedophile) peeing in the stall next to me and my 4 year old daughter.  It would seem like the bathrooms would have more traffic, more parents with their kids, etc.  

I, personally, don't want to have to walk past guys with their junk hanging out in a urinal, though.  I would want stalls.


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## ThistleMae

smiths02 said:


> For me out and about in public with my 11 year old boy and 4 year old boy and girl...I actually think it would be easier/safer if the restrooms were where either parent could go in with the child as necessary.  My 11 year old goes to the men's room by himself, but I worry about that WAY more than I worry about a transgender individual (or even a pedophile) peeing in the stall next to me and my 4 year old daughter.  It would seem like the bathrooms would have more traffic, more parents with their kids, etc.
> 
> I, personally, don't want to have to walk past guys with their junk hanging out in a urinal, though.  I would want stalls.


I don't think anyone is suggesting that combined rest rooms would still have urinals.


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## smiths02

ThistleMae said:


> I don't think anyone is suggesting that combined rest rooms would still have urinals.


I would hope not, but some women on this thread have said that they used the men's room when they had to and just walked passed men using urinals.


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## ToliBera

I asked a member of Disney's website trip helpers; trans bathroom usage is fine. (I'm guessing it's sprouted from parents having to take their opposite gendered children in to the bathroom with them.)


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## ThistleMae

My hope is that the fear of pedophiles lurking in bathrooms that are transgender will dissipate with time and education.  There are many more opportunities for them and bathrooms isn't one of them.  Working with child abuse victims over 30 years, no one has ever disclosed their first assault was in a public restroom.


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## csm101

one bathroom for all I say.


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## Beach710

LongLiveRafiki said:


> I wish people would respect one another's privacy and NOT peek through the stall cracks or underneath to assess if it's occupied or push on a stall door that you don't know for sure is empty. Simply ask if there's someone in there.



I'm sorry I know this is sort of off subject. Is it the general opinion that looking for feet under the stall is invasive? I guess  I don't the understand how in large public restrooms that often are very noisy - the person in the stall even if they did hear you would know you were talking to them?


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## L&Lfan

If the door is not open, I always take a glance at the floor to see if the stall is occupied, rather than just bursting in. I thought that was just being polite.


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## NoOrdinaryPrincess

When I was at Disney in June, I was squished on a Disney bus and realized that I was next to a trans*woman who was holding the stroller for her partner and small child across the aisle. It didn't bother me, but I remember thinking "I hope no one gives them trouble in the bathrooms.


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## ThistleMae

People can be so small sometimes...it just seems so ridiculous to me...but it certainly exists in many forms.


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## Celidh

wilkeliza said:


> No all genders bathroom I've ever been in has urinals that are open for all to see. I've been in stalls that had urinals as well as toliets per each stall but never urinals all out in the open for everyone to see.
> 
> Also please if you see someone you don't deem feminine enough to be in the ladies bathroom teach your daughter that all of us are made different but are all okay.
> 
> I was drawn to this thread again because at Galactic Nights a woman with very short hair came in the bathroom and while I didn't find anything wrong the woman at the sinks wih me goes OMG is that a boy ugh how could he? And then asks me was that a boy. I said ma'am I don't really know and don't really care I don't look at people that much when I'm in the bathroom and left.


I absolutely love this


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## ThistleMae

I do think it's normal to notice differences.  It just happens.  I'll notice someone who dresses differently, it's just natural.  Sometimes I think it's cool, other times I think, not for me.  I wouldn't want anyone to feel uncomfortable around me...and I think that's the hard part.  If someone isn't comfortable with themselves, or is concerned about what I think...it might make me feel uncomfortable.  I don't know exactly what I'm trying to say here but I do think some people might appear to be judging when they just want to make sure they are not making that individual feel uncomfortable.  I do like the fact that there are so many role models that have come out, whether they are gay, bisexual or trans.  I like where the new world is going.


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## Terri_Berri

Hi! I know this is an old topic, and I confess I haven’t read the entire thread or even posted in a long time. But I am trans and go to Disneyland often. I dare anyone to tell me or any of my trans friends to use the boys room.


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## happymommy

My youngest is trans.  He uses the men's room, in a stall.  It is no big deal.  Kinda freaked my out first time we separated, and he used the men's, but it's a learning experience for me.  

He passed all the time last summer, but started T this December.  Due to him having a severe health concern, he is not considering surgery at all (he has EDS and uses a wheelchair at Disney).


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## happymommy

Terri_Berri said:


> Hi! I know this is an old topic, and I confess I haven’t read the entire thread or even posted in a long time. But I am trans and go to Disneyland often. I dare anyone to tell me or any of my trans friends to use the boys room.
> 
> View attachment 301337



Damn you look awesome!


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## csm101

How the washroom you identify with. That should be the only question to ask


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## FlightlessDuck

FYI, @old lady  has a tendency of starting threads that he or she knows will usually set of a flamewar and never comes back to reply.  Although I'm not sure what they would think they were accomplishing asking this question on this subforum.


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## happymommy

FlightlessDuck said:


> FYI, @old lady  has a tendency of starting threads that he or she knows will usually set of a flamewar and never comes back to reply.  Although I'm not sure what they would think they were accomplishing asking this question on this subforum.



Yes this person seems to just want to start debates.


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## ToffPrincess

I don't care who shares or uses the toilet with me as long as I have my privacy. I don't want men or women or children to be able to see me do my business through those god damn huge door cracks a lot of stalls have. In Liberty Tree Tavern you can practically make eye contact with the person on the toilet while waiting. That I find creepy. Whats wrong with proper doors?!

I also wish we have more family restrooms available world wide as the extra space for helping a toddler or disabled child would be so useful. I hate it when DH takes DS to the mens as I know that he always has to do a mayor clean up as DS still needs to sit.

If you are trans, good luck on your journey I hope you find happiness in yourself and I hope you can pee wherever you want to!


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