# Crowd Culture in Shanghai Disneyland



## TK27

I saw this video posted on Reddit and it kind of shocked me. Not what I'd expect when visiting Disney property. Is a lot of this just sort of acceptable? Or do you think Disney will have to change something to improve upon the current conditions?


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## bumbershoot

They built it in China . Therefore they have to expect that the culture will be different. None of that would even make my Korean MIL, who has spent a good deal of time in China,  blink. Especially not the peeing.


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## Alesia

It's not "sort of acceptable," it's completely acceptable - in fact it's expected. If you visit a theme park in another country, you shouldn't be surprised when you encounter different societal norms.

That's the main reason I have no desire to go to Shanghai Disney.


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## doombuggy

Well the kids playing in that area that is not supposed to be accessed should have been stopped. Cm should have called security. I don't know where in the line that was so it is possible no cm saw it at the time. The damage to that wall outlet is a disgrace. So the people think they can do whatever they want to property that isn't theirs? Seems weird in a communist country.


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## zanzibar138

I said it on Facebook, and I'll say it again here. I'm actually getting a bit tired of seeing these 'bad behaviour' posts and videos. Of course if you go looking for it, you'll see it everywhere. I bet if someone went into a US Disney park with the same attitude, they'd soon find plenty of people behaving badly there too.

As with most things in life, the vast majority of people (of all nationalities) I found to be friendly and respectful. Yes, you will see things that you normally wouldn't expect to see at a Disney park. There are vast cultural differences to take into account, especially among the older generations. Most of this 'bad behaviour' is perfectly normal for these people, and wouldn't usually cause any offence to anyone in their everyday lives. I could understand the concern if this behaviour was becoming common at US Disney parks, but this park is in China. Why should people behave any differently than they normally would in their own country?

Having said that, in three days I only saw a handful of incidents that I would not normally expect to see at a Disney park. You don't see it every time you turn around like these videos and 'bad behaviour' posts would have you believe. The few times I saw something that made me slightly uncomfortable, it was so easy to just let it go and get back to enjoying my own trip that I really don't understand why people are making such a big deal out of it. My main memories are of happy, friendly people, enjoying their own time at Disneyland in their own way. For me, it was a trip filled to the brim with Disney magic, and I can't wait to go back!


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## GusIsaFoxhound

I know I haven't been yet, but I agree with zanzibar. You just have to accept differences in culture if you are in a different country. Just appreciate it doesn't seem to take off in your own.


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## awaydrink

doombuggy said:


> So the people think they can do whatever they want to property that isn't theirs? Seems weird in a communist country.



You're missing the point about a communist country. China has changed drastically in the past couple decades, but remember Mao, the Cultural Recolution, etc. are not far removed, just a couple of decades ago ~1960s. E.g. There was a time in communist China when not everyone got food. I'm talking in major cities, specifically in Shanghai. People used to wait in line for food distributions; now, what would happen if the food ran out? Nothing. Those people starved. No one cared that you stood there and waited patiently, now you and your whole family could not eat. This created a very much "every person for themselves/their own family" attitude towards lines. Hence why the line cutting is so ubiquitous. This is just one example. Am I saying is it justified from our western standpoint? No, but this is a country that has a very different *history* and *culture* from the US so to hold it to our cultural/societal norms would be futile. Also no one is asking Westerners to go to Shanghai Disney; Disney has said that it is a park which is made more for the Chinese people.


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## helenk

I am in Beijing now visiting my daughter. We will be going to Shanghai at the end of the week and I am looking forward to going. This is my second visit to China so I am a bit used to some of the things that happen. There is quite a bit of pushing and shoving but it is what they are used to doing. Generally you just go with the flow you get to see what you want and then move with the crowd. I equate sight seeing here with being in a Disney Park on a holiday. There are a massive amount of people all trying to visit the Forbidden City or some other tourist spot. Have I seen children peeing? Of course, does it stop me from enjoying myself absolutely not. The transportation system here in Beijing is excellent the subway cars run every few minutes. The stations are well marked and getting to where you want to go is pretty easy. I understand that Shanghai is the same. I have the address of the Toy story hotel copied from the Disney website to give to the taxi driver at the airport. I don't expect him to speak English. Visiting another country is an experience, you know things are different you know there will be issues but you take it all in and enjoy your time.


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## GabBeFit

I think its still worth it to go and just deal with the differences. Its part of their culture... Just do your own thing take in the beauty that is Disney! Always interesting to see a different part of the world!


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## kidd_freeper

GabBeFit said:


> I think its still worth it to go and just deal with the differences. Its part of their culture... Just do your own thing take in the beauty that is Disney! Always interesting to see a different part of the world!


I was at Shanghai Disney yesterday. It isn't the beauty of a different culture...it is simply rude behavior. I saw people leave garbage on a rail when a garage can was 25 feet away. There is almost zero respect for your place in line...if you don't crowd right up to the person in front of you, the person behind you will pass you up. A common practice is for one person in a group to get in line while the rest of the family does something else...then the rest will work their way through the line to join the rest...most of the rides have signs that say that your entire group should enter the line at the same time.

I was in the single rider line for Tron where the posted time was 30 minutes but it ended up being closer to an hour. Two Indian men kept trying to pass me in line, actually pushing me at times. When I made it to the front, they tried to tell the CM that they were next and that there were two of them. I stood my ground and the CM believed me.

Chinese children are probably a little more spoiled than American children.  I saw several occasions where 6 or 7 yo kids just yelling at a CM or a cashier. Without admonishment from their parents. Their children are encouraged to duck through rails, or are even lifted over them, so that they can play with the scenery.

The rude behavior DID take away a little from the experience. It made waiting in long lines a bit worse than it had to be.


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## GabBeFit

kidd_freeper said:


> I was at Shanghai Disney yesterday. It isn't the beauty of a different culture...it is simply rude behavior. I saw people leave garbage on a rail when a garage can was 25 feet away. There is almost zero respect for your place in line...if you don't crowd right up to the person in front of you, the person behind you will pass you up. A common practice is for one person in a group to get in line while the rest of the family does something else...then the rest will work their way through the line to join the rest...most of the rides have signs that say that your entire group should enter the line at the same time.
> 
> I was in the single rider line for Tron where the posted time was 30 minutes but it ended up being closer to an hour. Two Indian men kept trying to pass me in line, actually pushing me at times. When I made it to the front, they tried to tell the CM that they were next and that there were two of them. I stood my ground and the CM believed me.
> 
> Chinese children are probably a little more spoiled than American children.  I saw several occasions where 6 or 7 yo kids just yelling at a CM or a cashier. Without admonishment from their parents. Their children are encouraged to duck through rails, or are even lifted over them, so that they can play with the scenery.
> 
> The rude behavior DID take away a little from the experience. It made waiting in long lines a bit worse than it had to be.



I said the beauty that is Disney  

Thats unfortunate to hear. Im headed there on Septmeber 20th. Hopefully I can over look as much as possible...  I had a family of 8 manage to but me in line at the beijing airport once. I was in shock that they managed. 

My fiances family is from Hong Kong... they were telling me how different they are in Main Land China compared to the civilized people in Hong Kong. They are just brought up to not really give a ****...


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## BadPinkTink

Its the same when those who are used to visiting the USA park go to Disneyland Paris. They report bad on how oh this is rude behaviour or that is offensive, or why do people do xyz.

Disney does not equal America. What is socially and culturally acceptable behaviour in America may not be in Disney parks in other lands. 

For American Disney CM's its a way of life, working in Disney is a seen as a dream job.
In other lands, being a Disney CM is just a job, they dont care about or have no interest in the all American Disney way.


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## kidd_freeper

I found that the SDL CMs were equal to the Florida CMs in terms of great disposition, helpfulness and attitude. That part is all Disney and it was as refreshing in China as it is in America.


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## helenk

[Q


kidd_freeper said:


> I found that the SDL CMs were equal to the Florida CMs in terms of great disposition, helpfulness and attitude. That part is all Disney and it was as refreshing in China as it is in America.


I agree the CM's that we encountered in the parks were all very nice, very respectful and did there best at answering questions. We did not have any issues with the cast members at all. The worst littering we saw was in the queue for Soaring. But to be fair there needed to be more trash cans in there. Other than that it was not too bad.


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## Dentam

kidd_freeper said:


> I was at Shanghai Disney yesterday. It isn't the beauty of a different culture...it is simply rude behavior. I saw people leave garbage on a rail when a garage can was 25 feet away. There is almost zero respect for your place in line...if you don't crowd right up to the person in front of you, the person behind you will pass you up. A common practice is for one person in a group to get in line while the rest of the family does something else...then the rest will work their way through the line to join the rest...most of the rides have signs that say that your entire group should enter the line at the same time.



This was unfortunately our experience last week as well.  Lots of garbage left after the fireworks show and even in some lines - for example it was piled up everywhere in the Peter Pan line around the character sculptures.  The line cutting was also BAD and made us not want to stand in any long lines after our 90 minute wait for Peter Pan.  They have it printed on the guide map that line cutting is not allowed, but they need more CM's to enforce this.  We managed to have a great time though and did find that most everyone was happy and friendly.  They just have very different behaviors that they consider to be normal I guess... However, I will note that our hosts in Shanghai were surprised we wanted to go to SDL and warned us about the crowds and lines.  They had no desire to join us!  We also did not really experience these behaviors during the rest of our trip, and we were in lines at three train stations (Yangzhou, Nanjing, and Beijing) as well as the Shanghai airport, etc.  We did see people relieving themselves outside though, and I'm happy to say we did not see that in SDL.


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## Dentam

kidd_freeper said:


> I found that the SDL CMs were equal to the Florida CMs in terms of great disposition, helpfulness and attitude. That part is all Disney and it was as refreshing in China as it is in America.



I would say that the CM's in Shanghai blew the ones in DL and WDW out of the water.  Super friendly and helpful!


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## GusIsaFoxhound

Dentam, I'm going to Nanjing as well- it's as if I'm stalking you! But we're going to visit friends for a weekend, not lecturing.


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## Dentam

GusIsaFoxhound said:


> Dentam, I'm going to Nanjing as well- it's as if I'm stalking you! But we're going to visit friends for a weekend, not lecturing.



Nanjing was actually just a stop to change trains for us.  We had a three day conference in Yangzhou and then took a train to Beijing with a stop in Nanjing along the way.  I could have stayed in China for at least another week, although my feet were just about done in from all the walking we did.  I hope I get to go back someday!


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## GusIsaFoxhound

This is my second time, though we've only been on organised trips, not by ourselves. It's surprisingly cheap to gt on the tours from Oz, which is why we're going again. DH is so looking forward to the Fast Train that he's prepared to tolerate Disney for me! We're even staying at Toy Story Hotel, to my delight.
He has begun having business connections in China, so there's a good chance I/we will get back again.


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## Dentam

GusIsaFoxhound said:


> This is my second time, though we've only been on organised trips, not by ourselves. It's surprisingly cheap to gt on the tours from Oz, which is why we're going again. DH is so looking forward to the Fast Train that he's prepared to tolerate Disney for me! We're even staying at Toy Story Hotel, to my delight.
> He has begun having business connections in China, so there's a good chance I/we will get back again.



I loved both hotels and thought the Toy Story hotel was very bright and cheerful!  I actually thought it was much nicer than any of the value hotels at WDW.  I will post plenty of photos on my TR tomorrow!

Oh, and the high speed train stations in Beijing and Shanghai are huge!  They are like airports!  I think one of them we took had only been operating for less than a year.  They were very clean and the food they had for purchase was very good.  Hot meals as well as popcorn and other snacks.

The cab rides in Beijing were the most adventurous forms of transportation of our trip - wow!  The traffic is just crazy there!  We totally lucked out with blue skies for the day we went to the Great Wall and Ming Tombs - even our tour guide was very excited about that!


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## GusIsaFoxhound

Have you reported about your time in China as well? I'd like to hear what you saw/did, as well as your Disney visit.


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## Dentam

GusIsaFoxhound said:


> Have you reported about your time in China as well? I'd like to hear what you saw/did, as well as your Disney visit.



I haven't... didn't know if anyone here would be interested.  I've been posting pics on Facebook though and if you're interested I can add you on fb.  I'm just now feeling like I'm recovering from jet lag!  The time difference is 14 hours for me - I had no troubles adjusting when I got there but coming back has been a totally different story!


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## GusIsaFoxhound

we are only 3 hours ahead- DH suffers from jet lag badly, going both ways, so last time the 3 hours was really good. It meant we were up for early breakfast and ready to go by 8am, easily!
How can we connect on FB? I use DH's FB- it doesn't do much for me, really. Too much of a dinosaur, I suppose!


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## Dentam

GusIsaFoxhound said:


> How can we connect on FB? I use DH's FB- it doesn't do much for me, really. Too much of a dinosaur, I suppose!



I sent you a pm.


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## hasabigrock

I'm going to SDL next month, over the weekend, by myself. Honestly, I'm what I'm hearing is anything goes, and I'm okay with that. Plus I won't have my wife with me to be my Jiminy Cricket so... Let's go!

If they want to stand close to this stinky, sweaty (actually very sweaty) middle aged white guy I really don't care. Plus I'll bring my Disney touring skills and run with the locals. Looking forward to it.


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## Dentam

hasabigrock said:


> If they want to stand close to this stinky, sweaty (actually very sweaty) middle aged white guy I really don't care. Plus I'll bring my Disney touring skills and run with the locals. Looking forward to it.



Oh, they won't just stand close, they'll slip on by you!   Have a great trip!!


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## kidd_freeper

hasabigrock said:


> I'm going to SDL next month, over the weekend, by myself. Honestly, I'm what I'm hearing is anything goes, and I'm okay with that. Plus I won't have my wife with me to be my Jiminy Cricket so... Let's go!
> 
> If they want to stand close to this stinky, sweaty (actually very sweaty) middle aged white guy I really don't care. Plus I'll bring my Disney touring skills and run with the locals. Looking forward to it.


Advantage: You can go in the single rider lines. The single rider lines are a lot more comfortable (not as packed together and no one will cut you to join their family). At Pirates, you have to ask for it, but it is way better than standby. At TRON the single rider line was twice the posted wait time, but it was still shorter than standby.
Disadvantage: As a single person it will be easier for them get by you in a standby line. My recommendation: strike a balance between the rudeness that is part of the culture and trying to maintain order. If they are trying to rejoin family, bite your tongue and let them. If others try to cut you, stand in their way. If they succeed, bite your tongue and try not to let it ruin your day.


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## zanzibar138

kidd_freeper said:


> Advantage: Go in the single rider lines. At Pirates, you have to ask for it, but it is way better. At TRON the singe rider line was twice the poste wait time, but it was still shorter tan standby.
> Disadvantage: As a single person it will be easier for them get by you in line. My recommendation: strike a balance between the rudeness that is part of the culture and trying to maintain order. If they are trying to rejoin family, bite your tongue and let them. If they try to cut you, stand in their way. If they succeed, bite your tongue and try not to let it ruin your day.



Yes, agree wholeheartedly with all of the above


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## Pacolovestacos

I mean should this be a shock to anyone?  By and large, Chinese tourists are the absolute worst in the world.  There are exceptions, as there are for almost everything, but the general consensus is that Chinese tourists are to be avoided.  Unfortunately, when you're in China, that's going to be rather difficult.  So you need to observe what the general norms are and adjust your own behavior.  Survival of the fittest here.


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## Dentam

The Chinese we met were the absolute nicest people I have met in any of my travels.  Yes, they have different behaviors when it comes to lining up, etc but all in all I was so impressed with their kindness and eagerness to help us.


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## califlorican

Pacolovestacos said:


> I mean should this be a shock to anyone?  By and large, Chinese tourists are the absolute worst in the world.  There are exceptions, as there are for almost everything, but the general consensus is that Chinese tourists are to be avoided.  Unfortunately, when you're in China, that's going to be rather difficult.  So you need to observe what the general norms are and adjust your own behavior.  Survival of the fittest here.



I live in San Francisco, where we have many Chinese tourists, and the majority of them are very nice and very friendly. The rude ones are the exception, not the rule. They have a different culture with behavior we Americans/Westerners find not normal. Posting a random video that has nothing to do with Disney at all is weird, and generalizing over a billion people into one group (being the "absolute worst in the world") is ridiculous.


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## GusIsaFoxhound

Just back yesterday, and will report later, but just adding to this for anyone needing information now. We were there 3 days ago. The park was spotless, the CMs were cheery, and there was very little rudeness in shoving or such, just a few. Of course, you will notice the bad behaviour of one more than the normal behaviour of 100. So, in general, it was fine. I did some 'polite pushing' myself, just to keep my fair place in line, but it wasn't necessary much. I also think it was the older people more likely, and I agree with a previous post that they are probably conditioned to it from fighting for survival, so to speak. Heaps and heaps of nice, friendly, polite people.


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## Dentam

Welcome back, @GusIsaFoxhound!  Can't wait to hear all about your trip!


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## GabBeFit

Dentam said:


> This was unfortunately our experience last week as well.  Lots of garbage left after the fireworks show and even in some lines - for example it was piled up everywhere in the Peter Pan line around the character sculptures.  The line cutting was also BAD and made us not want to stand in any long lines after our 90 minute wait for Peter Pan.  They have it printed on the guide map that line cutting is not allowed, but they need more CM's to enforce this.  We managed to have a great time though and did find that most everyone was happy and friendly.  They just have very different behaviors that they consider to be normal I guess... However, I will note that our hosts in Shanghai were surprised we wanted to go to SDL and warned us about the crowds and lines.  They had no desire to join us!  We also did not really experience these behaviors during the rest of our trip, and we were in lines at three train stations (Yangzhou, Nanjing, and Beijing) as well as the Shanghai airport, etc.  We did see people relieving themselves outside though, and I'm happy to say we did not see that in SDL.



We were at SHDL last week... we were very happy with how the cast members handled line cutting, they were very on top of it!! When we were there though the lines were not very terrible. Got on Peter Pan in 5 minutes the first time, Mine Train in 10 minutes. It was great. Even tron we never waited more than 15 for. Roarn' Rapids and Soarn' however were very very long!! Everyone ran to get fast passes for these rides as soon as rope drop happened. It was CRAZY! Day 2 for us was a little busier, but Pirates never had longer than a 20 min line. It was fantastic. The pushing and crowding of personal space was more of an issue for us. We had to tell people to back off frequently, or to get their umbrellas or phones out of our faces.

3 times we witnessed peeing in the park... once on the side of soarin'.. once directly in front of us in the middle of the entrance into the Alice in Wonderland Maze (like legit had to stop walking because the mom was holding her daughter up in the middle of the entrance and everyone had to walk over her puddle to enter after this), and then one very unfortunate time we took a picture in front of the castle and noticed afterwards there is a little boy patless peeing in our picture.... I hope Disney can find a way to fix this.

As for garbage... The only time we really noticed it badly was right after Ignite the Dream. There was garbage everywhere, but everyone was in one area all at once.


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## GusIsaFoxhound

China needs to ban the split-pants for toddlers! I didn't see any of it when we were at Disney, in fact, only once while in China (DH suggested not licking the grass over there!) Once again, I think it will partly die out as the next generation becomes more Westernized (not always good, but this time, maybe). And I'm sorry, as it sounds very prejudiced, but the locals going to a place like Disney are more likely to be a bit Westernized already. I saw nappies showing on lots of toddlers, good for the park, but then it gets me wondering about all the land fill if they all started on disposables instead...........not an easy solution for a difficult subject.
Drastically, it might work if Disney put up a sign saying anyone seen doing it will be banished from the park- harsh, but surely this is one thing that needs to be controlled.
I wondered how difficult it must be to stop the kids from doing it once they're conditioned to it.


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## distravel

We spent two weekend days in Shanghai Disneyland after our October ABD tour ended. The people were lovely.The lines were the same as in the USA. I did not have to stand abnormally close to anyone and only one time did a father go past us to catch up to his family. The park was beautiful and very clean. I did not notice any garbage on the ground at all. We actually just got back from WDW for the Wine and Dine festival where the crowds were heavier and the lines were longer than what we experienced in Shanghai. I do think the Shanghai DL needs more rides to absorb their crowds. They are already adding Toy Story Land so that will help.


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## BelleBway

Spent 3 days solo at SDR last week and was very relieved not to see the prevalence of the line cutting, trash etc that had been described.  Sure, there were a couple isolated incidents- but nothing widespread.

I actually visited all 3 Asian parks  (I'd been to the others before) and felt that the Shanghai experience compared favorably to the others.  Cast members were fantastic- I somehow lost a 2 day ticket on the first day of use and they did a great job of handling that problem  (there was a minorecall point of confusion, but it all worked out)


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