# OMG...a trainer was killed today!



## loveysbydesign

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...-orlando-shamu-injury-20100224,0,942688.story
One person is dead at SeaWorld's Shamu Stadium, following an incident this afternoon, an Orange County Sheriff's Office official confirmed.

Orange County Fire Rescue responded to SeaWorld's Shamu Stadium this afternoon on report of a person who was not breathing.

Details about the incident are not yet available, but a Sheriff's Office official confirmed it is a death investigation.

A local TV station is reporting that a female trainer was killed after she was grabbed by one of the theme park's whales at the start of a public show.

Park guest Victoria Biniak told Local 6 that the trainer was a veteran of SeaWorld and had just finished explaining to the audience the show they were about to see.

At that point, Biniak said, the whale came up from the water, grabbed the trainer around the waste and "thrashed her all around" to the point the trainer's shoe fell off.

Guests were evacuated and were later told the park was shut down, Biniak told Local 6.

Rescue personnel were called to the theme park at 2 p.m. Calls to SeaWorld and Orange County Fire Rescue were not immediately returned.


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## SandrA9810

wow... 

It's told over and over again how dangerous they can be. And it really is a risk of life and death to get in the tank with them every day.


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## NeverlandClub23

So sad. What a horrible way to die!


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## weesignlanguage

That is so tragic.  I can't believe that happened.  Prayers going up for the family of the girl who died.


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## Not My Fault!

Here's the msn news flash...horrifying thing.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35566392/ns/us_news-life


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## SandrA9810

It's Tilli, not telly...


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## surfergirl602

CNN is reporting something competely different.


(CNN) -- A killer whale killed a trainer Wednesday afternoon at SeaWorld in Orlando, Florida, a spokesman for the Orange County Fire Department told CNN.

The spokesman, John Mulhall, said the trainer was pronounced dead at the scene.

The incident did not occur during a performance, said a spokeswoman for SeaWorld, who added that more information was to be released soon.


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## SandrA9810

No it wasn't during a Believe show.


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## Tinks1984

Oh my word, such sad news  I've just logged onto my SeaWorld Facebook page and learnt this. Thoughts are with the SeaWorld family and the family of the trainer


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## truck1

First my condolences go out to the trainer, the family and the other trainers in this time of grief.

Second, since all of the facts are still not known,the news isnt going to get much right.
Local 6 here in Orl has it on since it hapened (there helicopter was in the area over Sea World apparently)and for every 1 fact they got right, theyve gotten 3 or 4 wrong.The news caster mistook yellow crime scene tape for a ruler.


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## Head_in_the_clouds

I was shocked to discover several months ago that Tilikum (the biggest killer whale at Sea World) was suspected (along with other whales) to have been responsible for the death of two people over the years including the horrific death of Keltie Byrne. Precautions were apparently taken by Seaworld to prevent him from getting over excited and possibly injuring or killing anyone else in future. Now, sadly, it looks like this is exactly what had happened. 

Tilikum is the whale who soaks everyone during the "Shamu! Shamu!" section of Believe. He was intentionally not used in any routines with another trainer in the pool as he posed a known risk. This trainer's death must have been terrifying, what an awful shame.

But as much as I love SeaWorld, when will they learn?


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## Feralpeg

The local news indicated that it happened during the Dine With Shamu show.   They reported the first show was delayed for a little while because the whales didn't seem to want to cooperate.

During the dinner show, the trainer was bending down.  The whale sort of rolled toward her.   Her long hair became entangled in his mouth and she was dragged under.   She did surface at one point.   Witness said she had a really shocked look on her face.   Then, she was dragged back down.   She was under for about five minutes before the other trainers were able to get to her.   Fire and rescue tried to revive her, but they were unsuccessful.

They are currently having a press conference.   The GM of Seaworld said that the woman killed was one of their most senior trainers.  She was 40 years old.   They are not releasing any other details at this time.

Other witnesses are saying she slipped and fell into the water.   It is really to early to know what really happened.


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## luvthemouse71

truck1 said:


> First my condolences go out to the trainer, the family and the other trainers in this time of grief.
> 
> Second, since all of the facts are still not known,the news isnt going to get much right.
> Local 6 here in Orl has it on since it hapened (there helicopter was in the area over Sea World apparently)and for every 1 fact they got right, theyve gotten 3 or 4 wrong.The news caster mistook yellow crime scene tape for a ruler.


You're right that the news always gets stuff wrong..we get trauma patients and some of the stories end up on the news...without fail, they always give out mostly wrong info.


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## A Mickeyfan

This is so horrible!  My prayers go out to the trainers family & co-workers.  I would think that if SeaWorld knew this whale to be a danger, they would not have had a trainer "ever" go into the tank with it.  While I don't blame anyone in particular, the responsibility of keeping their employees safe does need to land on the corporation.  Under no circumstances should they have allowed a trainer in the tank if Tilli was suspected of one death already.. you just do not chance it with someone's life


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## RabFlmom

SandrA9810 said:


> wow...
> 
> It's told over and over again how dangerous they can be. And it really is a risk of life and death to get in the tank with them every day.



The way I am reading this, I am not so sure the trainer was even in the tank.  It says the whale came out of the water  very fast and grabbed a trainer who was talking to a crowd by the waste , thrashed her around roughly, and caused her shoe to fly off. (from the news conference-the trainer fell in the water ) Trainers do not get in the water with Tilly.  This whale basically opnly comes in to the show to splash the crowd.  Today they couldn't get the whales to splash the crowd at the end of the show and the trainer was explaining things to the crowd when she slipped and fell.  She is one of the most experienced trainers in the park.  

It was the big whale(Tilly) who is 30 years old.   Supposedly he came to SW from British Columbia where he had an incident where a trainer was killed.  Then in the 1990s  a nude man was found on his back one morning.  They said he either snuck in after hours or hid in the park when it closed.  He died from hypothermia which caused him to drown; but there was evidence that Tilly had bitten him after he drowned.  

My heart goes out to the trainer's family and friends. There was  a news conference a few minutes ago.  They just said the trainer slipped or fell into the tank.  No sense of foul play, calling it an accidental death.  The trainer was 40 years old and drowned when the whale brought her to the bottom. It was in the back area and the  trainer was talking to people in the Dine with Shamu area holding pool and not in the main show.


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## SandrA9810

The previous death was purely an accident, with two other whales, one of them being pregnant was the cause for the death. And none of the whales were trained at that time for working with people.
The second death... was just stupidity of the person. And ruled as hypothermia and drowning. There was nothing on the body to presume that the whale did anything to him.

Every show they tell every one how amazing it is to work with such "dangerous creatures"... they take that risk every time they get into the pool with the whales. They know long before hand what risk they're taking to get in that water. 

I don't think anything should happen to Tilikum. You can train them, but you can't control them.


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## SandrA9810

When I first read it, I didn't realize it was Tili that was the whale. And yes, I do know no one gets into the tank with Tili. But besides that, the trainers do put their life in the hands of the whales when they get into the tanks. It could've been any one of the whales.


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## Sccrmnky2005

My thoughts go out to the family and friends and the co-workers of this women.

We won't know the details until later on tonight when they have time to investigate. There will be many things said what might have happened but we won't know for a while. Very sad.

If it is the same whale I hope they do not hurt the killer whale in any way for this accident.


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## wdwishes1990

Feralpeg said:


> The local news indicated that it happened during the Dine With Shamu show.   They reported the first show was delayed for a little while because the whales didn't seem to want to cooperate.
> 
> During the dinner show, the trainer was bending down.  The whale sort of rolled toward her.   Her long hair became entangled in his mouth and she was dragged under.   She did surface at one point.   Witness said she had a really shocked look on her face.   Then, she was dragged back down.   She was under for about five minutes before the other trainers were able to get to her.   Fire and rescue tried to revive her, but they were unsuccessful.
> 
> They are currently having a press conference.   The GM of Seaworld said that the woman killed was one of their most senior trainers.  She was 40 years old.   They are not releasing any other details at this time.
> 
> Other witnesses are saying she slipped and fell into the water.   It is really to early to know what really happened.



This makes more sense -- the timing did not match up with the Believe shows -- thought it might be an education tour or something.  It must have been her pony tail --- they usually pull their hair back, don't they?


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## Head_in_the_clouds

From what people are describing this death seems very similar to that of Keltie Byrne, the trainer at SeaLand Pacific who fell in and the whales proceeded to "Play" with her body, tossing it from one to another for a prolonged period of time and pushing her to the bottom of the tank until she died from drowning.

Daniel Dukes was incredibly stupid and was found to have died from hypothermia and drowning but he was found with marks all over his body concordant with being dragged across the bottom of the tank by Tilikum.

In my first post I wasn't suggesting for e.g that Tilikum should be destroyed but neither do I think he should have been made to perform or used as entertainment. He doesn't know what he is capable of and doesn't understand that humans can't hold their breath. I really don't think he should have been kept in captivity. And this will happen again as long as killer whales continue to perform in unnatural environments. Instead of breeding them in captivity the orcas captured from the wild should have been allowed to die out naturally if they couldn't be released without being used to populate theme parks. They are beautiful and intelligent but they were not made to be our best-friends or celebrities.


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## PaulaSB12

Head_in_the_clouds said:


> From what people are describing this death seems very similar to that of Keltie Byrne, the trainer at SeaLand Pacific who fell in and the whales proceeded to "Play" with her body, tossing it from one to another for a prolonged period of time and pushing her to the bottom of the tank until she died from drowning.
> 
> Daniel Dukes was incredibly stupid and was found to have died from hypothermia and drowning but he was found with marks all over his body concordant with being dragged across the bottom of the tank by Tilikum.
> 
> In my first post I wasn't suggesting for e.g that Tilikum should be destroyed but neither do I think he should have been made to perform or used as entertainment. He doesn't know what he is capable of and doesn't understand that humans can't hold their breath. I really don't think he should have been kept in captivity. And this will happen again as long as killer whales continue to perform in unnatural environments. Instead of breeding them in captivity the orcas captured from the wild should have been allowed to die out naturally if they couldn't be released without being used to populate theme parks. They are beautiful and intelligent but they were not made to be our best-friends or celebrities.


This is the only solution they are magnificant beautiful creatures and we in our arrogance think we have the right to turn them into toys for our amusement.  I really feel for the family of this person to have lost a loved one to a preventable accident but my sympathy also goes to the whale.


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## joxer1014

This is indeed a terrible tragedy and my heart goes out to everyone involved.  

I do have one question about what the OP said.  Did the really shut down the entire park?  If they did, why?  People on the other side of the park that had no idea what is going on are all of a sudden told to leave?  Is that right?  It's obvious that the Shamu shows were cancelled but really, how can you shut down an entire park?

Someone please tell me the OP was wrong.


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## Head_in_the_clouds

joxer1014 said:


> This is indeed a terrible tragedy and my heart goes out to everyone involved.
> 
> I do have one question about what the OP said.  Did the really shut down the entire park?  If they did, why?  People on the other side of the park that had no idea what is going on are all of a sudden told to leave?  Is that right?  It's obvious that the Shamu shows were cancelled but really, how can you shut down an entire park?
> 
> Someone please tell me the OP was wrong.



I think it would only be right for the park to be closed. Firstly, because of the emergency services who may have needed access and also the sensitive nature of what people may have seen and secondly as a mark of respect. How could people who worked there go on with their day knowing their colleague had died horrifically?


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## marius97

Just sending out my prayers for the trainer, her family and friends.  Wether or not you agree with orcas being in captivity or not, we can all agree that this is a horrible tragedy.


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## SandrA9810

Half the park is closed right now. It's actually easier than you would think to clear a park if they had to. 

The Disney parks were closed on 9/11, and it was a fairly quick and easy clear out. And people vacationing then probably didn't have easy access to news like they do now.


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## a1tinkfans




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## Head_in_the_clouds

SandrA9810 said:


> Half the park is closed right now. .



I find that quite disturbing. Do they really feel alright about taking money at SeaWorld on the day that someone has just died at the place where their most popular show is held? I think its pretty disrespectful to just sweep this poor woman's death under the carpet and continue to operate other rides/shows to be honest, I used to love SeaWorld but over the past few months I've started to change my mind.

Sandra, do you know the name of the trainer? I have a feeling I know who it is and if it is who I think it is then it may be especially sad. The woman I am thinking of had young children and was about 40.


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## SandrA9810

No, I don't have a name. 

But you get half and half response from the people there. People are all about their money, the news showed that people wanted a refund because they won't be able to see the show... blah blah blah crap. And they're offering discounted tickets to people walking in the gates because the show is closed off. 

It's not necesarily about sea world wanting money from people despite the death. It's trying to provide the wants from the guests that are there.


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## T16GEM

Head_in_the_clouds said:


> Sandra, do you know the name of the trainer? I have a feeling I know who it is and if it is who I think it is then it may be especially sad. The woman I am thinking of had young children and was about 40.



I think I do to, is she the one that is in the DVD that you can buy in the stores at Wild Arctic etc?  I cannot remember her name, but I think she had two young boys? if it is the same lady.  

Very sad indeed.


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## TiffinyKC

I am so sorry to the friends and family of this girl. What a terrible thing to happen. I'll be thinking of you.


Here is my DS with Tilly this past December. My DS was fascinated and still wants to be a trainer:






I'm just very, very sad to hear this.


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## Head_in_the_clouds

SandrA9810 said:


> No, I don't have a name.
> 
> But you get half and half response from the people there. People are all about their money, the news showed that people wanted a refund because they won't be able to see the show... blah blah blah crap. And they're offering discounted tickets to people walking in the gates because the show is closed off.
> 
> It's not necesarily about sea world wanting money from people despite the death. It's trying to provide the wants from the guests that are there.



I can understand them wanting a refund, I guess but I don't think I'd want to be at SeaWorld today. I'd just keep thinking about that poor woman and her family.



T16GEM said:


> I think I do to, is she the one that is in the DVD that you can buy in the stores at Wild Arctic etc?  I cannot remember her name, but I think she had two young boys? if it is the same lady.
> 
> Very sad indeed.



This isn't the one I am thinking of but either way its very, very sad.


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## SandrA9810

And they're still saying she died in front of an audience. Like it happened during the show. And during the "report" they say she was in a backstage tank with a tour group.


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## Head_in_the_clouds

The name of the trainer who died is Dawn Brancheau, I've just found out.


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## SandrA9810

they just said it on the news... but didn't make it sound like it was her. So i was slightly confused by it.


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## Brook1099

Horrible news, very sad and my heart goes out to her family/ friends and co-workers.


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## Not My Fault!

It's Dawn Brancheau...report here:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/ap_on_re_us/us_seaworld_death


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## MYD714

I have friends who were in the park today and they said the incident did not happen in front of a typical audience. They said they were watching the Shamu show when the show suddenly halted, the whales left the show tank, the trainers got silent, and then they awkwardly ushered everyone out of the theater. 

They had no idea what happened until we called to ask if they knew anything. They said that there was a tour (or something) where people were watching and could probably see it going on, but that nothing happened in front of the audience. 

Very sad. My heart goes out to the woman and her family.


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## jenelope

Dawn LoVerde Brancheau was the trainer. She and her husband, Scott, were married for fourteen years, but do not have children. She was from the Chicago area and comes from a large, close-knit family. She'd worked for SeaWorld since she was 24, and had worked with orcas for the past 14 or 15 years.


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## honkytonkmama

How long before some sick you-now-what offers up video of it for money. 

Poor dawn, her poor kids, and the whole SW family. 

It kinda of worries me they have him in a small medical prep looking area. I am assuming that is where they do the medical stuff to them (blood draw, etc) Is that just to keep him contained, or are they planing to put him down.


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## v_gan

I am sorry this happened, it's very tragic. But I also hope nothing happens to the whale. He didn't ask to be there. He is a wild animal, and he only knows what his instincts tell him .

It makes me so mad when animals do what is natural to them, and then are punished or killed for it.


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## karibritt01

This is our local news report.  The pictures have been edited to remove one showing a close-up of the tent with what appeared to be a body covered by a blanket under it.  The entire thing is very sad.

http://www.wral.com/news/national_world/national/story/7112447/


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## f86sabjf

very sad day indeed . I guess if you want train these big guys you may pay the price. He has no natural predators in the whole world. Including the largest sharks. He was also caputured in 83 off the coast of Norway. So this isn't a tank raised Orca but a REAL one if you will . I guarantee you he hasnt forgotten where he came from.. Hope they will not exterminate him but perhaps put him back in the wild where he can do what he wants. He obviously doesnt play well with us.


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## Disn3y

Tragic story, my thoughts and prayers go to the family and friends...


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## mtmbyck

how terrible for the friends and family, SeaWorld staff and guests that might have been present. We are booked to Dine with Shamu in a few weeks and it will be hard not to think of this.

I am sure it will come out that the whale did not intend to kill but wanted to play or misbehave. They did not exterminate Roy Horn's tiger so lets hope this whale is forgiven.


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## mouselovenfamily

So sad to hear this. I think she is the lady I have a photo of standing on a whale during a show I saw in April last year. It's a great photo but so sad if it is her. It was our first trip to SW. 

So sorry for everyone who worked with her and her family.


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## VictoriaFL84

So sad, I wonder what will happen to the whale now


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## ajaysmom825

This truly is terrible news. My heart goes out to the family, other trainers, and fans that have watched this trainer over the past 10+ years...


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## FLOIR

Not unexpectedly, the Believe show has been cancelled until further notice. From the Sea World website - 


SeaWorld Orlando and SeaWorld San Diego will be open Thursday, February 25 as scheduled (SeaWorld San Antonio is not yet open for the season) but Believe shows and Dine with Shamu experiences at all SeaWorld locations have been suspended; no decision has been made for future dates at this time.


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## summerrluvv

How devastating.  This brought tears to my eyes, that poor trainer


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## clandrum

We were just there Feb 4th. The Believe show was the best part of our day at Sea World.  Her and her family is in my families prayers. I think that I have some pictures of Dawn (it is kinda hard to tell) at the show and would like to share some of her amazing work.


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## summerrluvv

I just went through my pics from our trip to SW last year and found her in them.  So awful


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## KStarfish82

We were there last Friday.  Not sure if Dawn was there because the female trainers look very similar from a distance.  But we found it odd that none of the trainers entered the tank with the whales at all during Believe.  The whales were also not very responsive to the trainers as I have seen in the past.


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## [copher09

so so sad.


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## Feralpeg

A family witnessed the accident.  They had attended the lunch show for their son's fifth birthday.   After the show, they remained behind to take some additional video.   The trainer, Dawn, was off to the side with Tili.   She was bent down stroking him and feeding him.   Tili rolled to the side.  From the viewpoint of the witnesses, it appeared that her ponytail got caught in the whale's mouth.   It pulled her in and dove with her.

At one point, they surfaced for a moment.  She appeared to still be caught.  This time, it stayed down for about five minutes.

The people screamed for help when they saw what happened.  There were other tourists there are well.   By the time the other trainers got to her, it was to late.

Tili did not do anything to intentionally harm her.  It was simply a tragic accident.


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## beautybelle

This is awful news.

My heart goes out to the family of this trainer.


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## 1osfan

The trainer, Dawn, is orginally from my area and went to school here.  One of the local papers has an article about her and her death this evening.  Here is the link:

http://nwitimes.com/news/local/lake/article_c82f29fb-1c30-5370-b593-dbe088141de8.html


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## Timmy Boy

What sickens me the most are the people wanting their money back because their day was "ruined" because they couldn't see the Shamu show.  Have a heart will you?  Someone just lost their life, maybe you could think about someone else besides yourself for a change.


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## beautybelle

Timmy Boy:  You've got to be kidding!  There are truly some people in this world so self absorbed that they cant see anything past their own nose.


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## karibritt01

From our local news station:

"A SeaWorld killer whale snatched a trainer from a poolside platform Wednesday in its jaws and thrashed the woman around underwater, killing her in front of a horrified audience...  Brancheau was rubbing Tilikum after a noontime show when the 12,000-pound whale grabbed her and pulled her in, said Chuck Tompkins, head of animal training at all SeaWorld parks. It was not clear if she drowned or died from the thrashing...  Brazilian tourist Joao Lucio DeCosta Sobrinho and his girlfriend were at an underwater viewing area when they suddenly saw a whale with a person in its mouth."

Sounds like more than just her hair getting caught in the whale's mouth.  I imagine that everything happened so quickly that many people were not really sure what they saw.


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## NemoMom07

This is very heartwrenching. My prayers go out to her family as well as all the other trainers at the park. My mom was just there on Friday watching the show. She said it was the worst one ever. My other relative who works there said they have not seen a show so bad. The whales just were not wanting to do the show. Someone said that there is construction going on. Maybe that is really upsetting them. 

I have been watching some video news clips and I find it disheartening to see the "live" shots from the helicopter that shows the body right next to the whale tanks as they are swimming around. I also noticed that I think it is the whale involved has been put in an extremely small like holding pool. Not even deep enough for him to submerge under the water nor can he move. While right next to him lays his former trainer. I am assuming they had to leave it that way for the investigation. I do hope they let the whale out of that area and not cooped up to long. That is terriable. 

I think, like a lot of you, that this is a terriable accident. My heart goes out to all of those involved of this incident. I truely hope they do not do anything harmful to the whale. He did not do anything he would not do in his "natural" enviroment. It is a hard situation. The trainers all know what they are exposing themselves to, but it is their love for the animals that they do it. JMHO.


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## Peanut Giggleface

My prayers are with her family.


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## sunraydb

Thoughts and prayers are with the family, friends and colleagues.


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## goofy4tink

Feralpeg said:


> A family witnessed the accident.  They had attended the lunch show for their son's fifth birthday.   After the show, they remained behind to take some additional video.   The trainer, Dawn, was off to the side with Tili.   She was bent down stroking him and feeding him.   Tili rolled to the side.  From the viewpoint of the witnesses, it appeared that her ponytail got caught in the whale's mouth.   It pulled her in and dove with her.
> 
> At one point, they surfaced for a moment.  She appeared to still be caught.  This time, it stayed down for about five minutes.
> 
> The people screamed for help when they saw what happened.  There were other tourists there are well.   By the time the other trainers got to her, it was to late.
> 
> Tili did not do anything to intentionally harm her.  It was simply a tragic accident.


I have also heard this scenario spoken about. It really is one that makes the most sense.



karibritt01 said:


> From our local news station:
> 
> "A SeaWorld killer whale snatched a trainer from a poolside platform Wednesday in its jaws and thrashed the woman around underwater, killing her in front of a horrified audience...  Brancheau was rubbing Tilikum after a noontime show when the 12,000-pound whale grabbed her and pulled her in, said Chuck Tompkins, head of animal training at all SeaWorld parks. It was not clear if she drowned or died from the thrashing...  Brazilian tourist Joao Lucio DeCosta Sobrinho and his girlfriend were at an underwater viewing area when they suddenly saw a whale with a person in its mouth."
> 
> Sounds like more than just her hair getting caught in the whale's mouth.  I imagine that everything happened so quickly that many people were not really sure what they saw.


If the trainers hair were to be caught up in the whale's mouth, it may very well look like he had her 'in his mouth'....also, the whale could have been thrashing about in order to get her dislodged.

Yes, Tili is known to be aggresive and SW dealt with that. It all just seems to be, at this point, a tragic accident. Yes, I realize that onlookers 'say' the whale grabbed her and dragged her down and shook her violently...but could there be a possible scenario that could have appeared to be that scenario? I think so. What Feralpeg posted would seem to be an appropriate scenario.


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## Eeyore'sthebest

Thanks for info Peg.  That scenario sounds plausible.  We did the Dine with Shamu show a few years ago.  It was really a wonderful experience seeing the whales close up.  I believe she was one of the trainers that spoke during the dinner. 
This is so sad.  My prayers are with her family and friends.


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## karibritt01

goofy4tink said:


> If the trainers hair were to be caught up in the whale's mouth, it may very well look like he had her 'in his mouth'....also, the whale could have been thrashing about in order to get her dislodged.



We may never know what happened.  I was only posting the official press release statement from the head trainer at Sea World.


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## HeatherPage

You do have to wonder about the conflicting stories.  Was the one eyewitness who claims he shot out of the water and grabbed her by the waist an attention seeking something or other...or is Sea World trying to "tone down" what happend?


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## Bete

I'm finding myself thinking this is just not worth it.  Here, Tili was involved in other tragic incidences and the whale was allowed to continue.  Why? 
It was specifically stated that the whales were feeling agitated in Orlando.  Also, less than half the trainers were able to work with Tili; she was a problem all along.  I just can't see even after one incident why you would take a chance again.  And why or why aren't there more trainers helping each other out especially after a show?  Maybe, it wouldn't have mattered, but maybe, it would have had a better result.  They could have provided a diversion, used a sedation gun, etc.  Maybe, the bottom line is the company is shorting the shows on staffing.  I know the company is now reviewing procedures. 

It's not fair for Tili, either.  Who wants to be confined as they are when we know it's not right.  It's just for our entertainment; it's not worth it.  Everyone, do you remember Siegfried and Roy?  It seems sooner or later this type of captivity leads to a tragic ending.

I don't know if Tili is allowed to breed, but that's another problem.  

I'm no different then the rest and I enjoy all these shows.  I just don't feel it's worth it.  I really feel it needs to stop.


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## greenclan67

We went to Sw for the first time in Jan 2008 and were awe inspired by this performance, my DH and I had tears in our eyes watching Believe for the first time with our 5 & 7 year old girls. It was amazing!!! We watched Believe twice that year!
 We went back last year, in Feb 2009 and again watched Shamu Rocks, and I could tell from the very beginning, even though we had not watched this show ever, that the whales were not co-operating, they were swimming in a pod, of 6 whales, and just circling the pool. The trainers had a hard time seperating them. The trainers did come out and say that the whales were not co-operating, and they would see what they could do, but nothing really happened, and they apologized and said they are animals, and when they don't want to perform they don't. WE have to respect that. 
 We decided to go back the next day and watch Believe again with our kids, because of Shamu Rocks not working. Anyhow, it was the same thing, and again you could tell that it was not going happen. 
 It is unfortunate, but am starting to wonder, if it is this time of year, the whales go through something or what. Who knows. I feel absolutly terrible for the trainers, the backlash SW is getting from the general public, even though these incidents are very uncommon. 
 We were attending SW hopefully again on March 13th to see Shamu Rocks hopefully, and I will continue to support the parks like I always have. I love SW and have the utmost respect for the employees and trainers that risk their lives everyday because of these awesome mammals. RIP Dawn, you were a shining star!


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## Head_in_the_clouds

Lovely pictures of Dawn here in happier days;

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...trainer-dawn-brancheau,0,4297208.photogallery

For me, when I googled the name, as soon as I saw her she was instantly recognisable. I had the privilege of seeing her perform on several occasions and her absolute love for the animals and joy at getting to work with them came across so clearly. She was always hugging and kissing them and looking like she was laughing, joking and playing with them. It didn't seem to be just a job for her but a passion and something she was born to do. How many of us make the committment to follow a career in doing what we love despite the challenges we face? How many people just give up on their dreams? Not Dawn, she got up every day to do what she dreamed of as a little girl. It always seemed to me that those animals were like her babies and I have no doubt she will be sorely missed. Her death is tragic and horrible but she died doing what she LOVED. RIP Dawn, you were a wonder to watch and I'm so happy I got to see you and your undoubtable bond with the orcas.


----------



## TitanBrett

I have no doubt that Sea World will spin this story around so that it is nothing more than an "ooops" by the whale, Just like Siegfried and Roy.  It would be refeshing to hear someone state that the whale perhaps got angry and reacted in a way that would be consistent with it's natural behaviors.  A video will come out at some point that will answer some of these questions.


----------



## HeatherPage

> It always seemed to me that those animals were like her babies and I have no doubt she will be sorely missed. Her death is tragic and horrible but she died doing what she LOVED.



I read where even her own sister said all the orcas where her children to her...


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## christa112

I saw this morning (not sure which major news channel) that Tilli has reproduced many offspring.  Jack Hannah was on the telephone saying the importance of this animal breeding to save the Killer Whale population.  

We can only hope these offspring find their way back into the wild, though my guess is that they do not.  

This is a terrible thing to happen, but these are wild animals.  Look at what happen to the poor women in CT with the chimp.  I bet a million bucks that the owner never would have dreamed that her beloved pet would ever do that.  



Bete said:


> I'm finding myself thinking this is just not worth it.  Here, Tili was involved in other tragic incidences and the whale was allowed to continue.  Why?
> It was specifically stated that the whales were feeling agitated in Orlando.  Also, less than half the trainers were able to work with Tili; she was a problem all along.  I just can't see even after one incident why you would take a chance again.  And why or why aren't there more trainers helping each other out especially after a show?  Maybe, it wouldn't have mattered, but maybe, it would have had a better result.  They could have provided a diversion, used a sedation gun, etc.  Maybe, the bottom line is the company is shorting the shows on staffing.  I know the company is now reviewing procedures.
> 
> It's not fair for Tili, either.  Who wants to be confined as they are when we know it's not right.  It's just for our entertainment; it's not worth it.  Everyone, do you remember Siegfried and Roy?  It seems sooner or later this type of captivity leads to a tragic ending.
> 
> *I don't know if Tili is allowed to breed, but that's another problem.  *
> 
> I'm no different then the rest and I enjoy all these shows.  I just don't feel it's worth it.  I really feel it needs to stop.


----------



## Rip

TitanBrett said:


> I have no doubt that Sea World will spin this story around so that it is nothing more than an "ooops" by the whale, Just like Siegfried and Roy.  It would be refeshing to hear someone state that the whale perhaps got angry and reacted in a way that would be consistent with it's natural behaviors.  A video will come out at some point that will answer some of these questions.



The only people that seem to want to hear that the whale got angry and retaliated are those that already think they shouldn't be in captivity in the first place. 

As far as we know, this was nothing more than a tragic accident. Personally, I don't think this is either the time or place to debate whether the orcas "should" be used for entertainment purposes. 

But that's just me.


----------



## julieannbabe

Bete said:


> I'm finding myself thinking this is just not worth it.  Here, Tili was involved in other tragic incidences and the whale was allowed to continue.  Why?
> It was specifically stated that the whales were feeling agitated in Orlando.  Also, less than half the trainers were able to work with Tili; she was a problem all along.  I just can't see even after one incident why you would take a chance again.  And why or why aren't there more trainers helping each other out especially after a show?  Maybe, it wouldn't have mattered, but maybe, it would have had a better result.  They could have provided a diversion, used a sedation gun, etc.  Maybe, the bottom line is the company is shorting the shows on staffing.  I know the company is now reviewing procedures.
> 
> It's not fair for Tili, either.  Who wants to be confined as they are when we know it's not right.  It's just for our entertainment; it's not worth it.  Everyone, do you remember Siegfried and Roy?  It seems sooner or later this type of captivity leads to a tragic ending.
> 
> I don't know if Tili is allowed to breed, but that's another problem.
> 
> I'm no different then the rest and I enjoy all these shows.  I just don't feel it's worth it.  I really feel it needs to stop.



i agree 100%. very sensible comment.

i just don't understand after two incidents already why was the whale 'allowed' to carry on working?
what did they think would eventually happen.
its all about $$$$ at the end of the day.

also i have been to SW and i was shocked how small the main arena is and how small the holding pens are. it is the same as us it sitting in a bath tub at home - loads pens are sooooo tiny for a killer whale to be in.

build the whales a bigger tank pls and maybe these ridiculous 'tricks' that they are make to do - should be stopped now. it isn't right or natural for the whale.

SW need to take full responsibilty for this.


----------



## Eeyore'sthebest

There is a statement from her mother at www.radaronline.com if anyone wants to read it.  
Anyway, her mother is obviously devastated but said her daughter died doing what she loved.  The mother harborered no ill will towards Sea World or the whale.  She said her daughter would not want the whale put down but the family would leave to the discretion of the other trainers and Sea World to make whatever decisions they see fit.


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## universalfan

I am so horrified to hear this. We were there on Sunday, had great seats, and took many pictures of a trainer who clearly loved what she was doing. I would like to post a picture, but I do not have enough posts to allow it.


----------



## Head_in_the_clouds

christa112 said:


> I saw this morning (not sure which major news channel) that Tilli has reproduced many offspring.  Jack Hannah was on the telephone saying the importance of this animal breeding to save the Killer Whale population.
> 
> We can only hope these offspring find their way back into the wild, though my guess is that they do not.
> 
> This is a terrible thing to happen, but these are wild animals.  Look at what happen to the poor women in CT with the chimp.  I bet a million bucks that the owner never would have dreamed that her beloved pet would ever do that.



Christa, Tilikum's offspring populate SeaWorld parks and other marine life parks across the world. They are not released into the wild. Chances are, as they have been born in captivity, they are likely to be rejected in the wild, after all they are not born into a "pod" like their parents and grandparents were. Keiko (the Free Willy orca) died after being released into the wild because he couldn't cope in the natural environment and sought humans after he was released. Animals bred and born in captivity also do not live as long as those born in the wild. They are not officially an endangered species but environmental factors are resulting in a decline. But breeding in captivity is counter-productive. I myself don't believe orcas should be continue to be bred in captivity, they are meant to be wild and free. But everyone has a different opinion and I respect that. Its just difficult when you know someone has lost their life through the mistakes that have been made.

IMO Tilikum (who was captured from the wild) should have been released back in 91 after Keltie Byrne died. Evidence suggests he has never quite coped in captivity, not every trainer could work with him (and none in the water with him), he was rejected by other orcas at Sealand of the Pacific and he was not as good natured and placid as Orcas such as Corky 2 - but why should he be? He is an Orca not a domestic cat. I think, and not to be crude, that Tilikum has just been used to father future SeaWorld entertainers. He is a strong sire and before him most orcas born in captivity died. He produces strong offspring, so he has been a valuable asset. Now, he has lived in captivity for so long, releasing him could well be a death sentence. But what precautions will SeaWorld take to protect his trainers in future?  Undoubtedly, a difficult future lies ahead. I just hope that lessons are learned and another talented, wonderful person doesn't lose their life through this, or any other orca. I also hope Tilikum is not destroyed, I'm sure that is the last thing Dawn Brancheau would have wanted.


----------



## universalfan

Now I have enough posts (I have been lurking here for years but just never have anything to add to the expert advice). If this is her I can tell you it is clear that she really did love these animals. My heart is broken over this. I love both Sea World and Discovery Cove, and like Dawn, my daughter decided that she wanted to be a marine biologist on her first trip to Sea World. 

http://i818.photobucket.com/albums/zz105/vwestfall/img_2441A.jpg


----------



## TitanBrett

Rip said:


> The only people that seem to want to hear that the whale got angry and retaliated are those that already think they shouldn't be in captivity in the first place.
> 
> As far as we know, this was nothing more than a tragic accident. Personally, I don't think this is either the time or place to debate whether the orcas "should" be used for entertainment purposes.
> 
> But that's just me.



yes yes, by all means, everything is fine, tragic accident....

I dont care about whales being captive.  What I do care about is that we gain a better understanding of what happened so that it can be avoided in the future.  If the whale did it on purpose or with malice(assuming a whale could have those emotions) then that is something we should know.  It would be dangerous to the trainers if this is turned into some sort of "oh he was just playing" BS.  Of course nobody on here has any idea whether it was an accident or not we are all just speculating.  

As far as not being the time to debate it, if a trainer getting killed is not the time to talk about safety, then when is that time?


----------



## TitanBrett

Head_in_the_clouds said:


> through this, or any other orca. I also hope Tilikum is not destroyed, I'm sure that is the last thing Dawn Brancheau would have wanted.



There was a Sea World representative on a Tampa news station this morning saying that when the Shamu show reopens Tilikum will likely be part of it.  Whether this guy had the authority to say that is not known to me, his title was not given and it was just a quick interview.  Remember this was all just a tragic accident.  Just like the time in 1991 with the same whale


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## NYDisneyKid

free willy


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## TitanBrett

NYDisneyKid said:


> free willy



freeing him would probably be a death sentence.  Nobody should be anywhere near him anymore though I would say.

Here is a link stating that they will still interact with him

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/news/orange_news/022510-SeaWorld-procedures


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## MommaMouse411

I too was shocked and sadden by this..I love Seaworld..we go all the time..its tough to see a person lose their life but she was lover of these animals..and she understood the risks...but it breaks my heart...for both trainer and whale...its a tough issue..but these animals/mammals are in captivity and so we are going to see some humans get killed or hurt by them..its truly not the animals fault...its in their nature..

heck I don;'t trust domesticated animals..and I have a dog..but you just don't know how they will react to something it could be anything that sets them off!!!...


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## live4christp1

I'm curious as to how much say the trainers have in wether or not it is safe for a show to go on.  If several of the trainers had commented in the last week or show (and even during shows) that the animals were not cooperating.  Or they fill uneasy can the call the show?  Or are they pressured with "the show must go on?"

While definately not on the same caliber, while visiting Birmingham Zoo this summer and watching the Sea Lion training/show.......at the point were the trainers were working with a larger and more aggressive male. When he refused to cooperate on a couple of occasions the trainers apologized but said that for the safety of both the animal and the trainer they could not continue the show.

I know that one of the big highlights at SW is the show featuring these magnificient animals but I sure hope that there are measures in place that if the trainer feels it is unsafe they shouldn't feel they have to proceed. If the whales are behaving differently, etc. they shouldn't be forced (or try to force) to perform.

Sure there will be times people are disappointed by not seeing a show but we will get over it.  How many times have we gone to a park and a ride was broken, a show was canceled due to technical problems, or a parade didn't happen because the weather wouldn't permit it.  

I'd much rather the parks err on the side of caution and keep everyone safe than to be putting someone in danger.


----------



## joviroxx

live4christp1 said:


> I'm curious as to how much say the trainers have in wether or not it is safe for a show to go on.  If several of the trainers had commented in the last week or show (and even during shows) that the animals were not cooperating.  Or they fill uneasy can the call the show?  Or are they pressured with "the show must go on?"
> 
> While definately not on the same caliber, while visiting Birmingham Zoo this summer and watching the Sea Lion training/show.......at the point were the trainers were working with a larger and more aggressive male. When he refused to cooperate on a couple of occasions the trainers apologized but said that for the safety of both the animal and the trainer they could not continue the show.
> 
> I know that one of the big highlights at SW is the show featuring these magnificient animals but I sure hope that there are measures in place that if the trainer feels it is unsafe they shouldn't feel they have to proceed.* If the whales are behaving differently, etc. they shouldn't be forced (or try to force) to perform.*
> 
> Sure there will be times people are disappointed by not seeing a show but we will get over it.  How many times have we gone to a park and a ride was broken, a show was canceled due to technical problems, or a parade didn't happen because the weather wouldn't permit it.
> 
> I'd much rather the parks err on the side of caution and keep everyone safe than to be putting someone in danger.



Ive been at Sea World when the whales aren't being cooperative.  They do not force the animals to do anything.  They gently prod, try their commands, but if they don't do it, they don't do it.  They apologize to the audience, explain that they are animals with moods, just like us and that was it.  Its happened a couple of times when Ive been there. They laugh it off and try to keep going to the next thing and thats it.


----------



## tcoopman

Just to throw my two cents in...My family and I were there two weeks ago and greatly enjoyed Sea World.  I think this is a terrible accident - no one can really know Tili's intentions.  He's a whale...does it really matter?  Sadly, people die on the job all the time in all different lines of work.  How many orca trainers are killed on the job?  Compared to the number of fishermen who have lost their lives at sea (Deadliest Catch anyone?), or truck drivers killed in vehicle accidents...  I think the trainers' safety record is pretty darn good for a group of people who work with gigantic, intelligent, moody, social animals who eat meat - and that's why this is news.  

Should they look at safety protocols?  Absolutely.  Preventing another occurrence should be the goal but there will never be any guarantees as long as the job involves contact with the whales.

Does this bring up the "animals should be left in the wild" debate?  Only because this is in the news.  IMO, while we (humans) left everything in the wild, we tried to kill it all - that's a reason there are endangered species.  By taking a few of these animals out of the wild and raising them (and breeding them) in captivity; and displaying their intelligence, the social bond they can create with people, and their majestic beauty, I believe we (humans) are helping to protect the rest of the wild population.  After seeing a show like Believe, who would ever want to kill a creature like that?  

Of course we feel for the trainer's family - it is a terrible tragedy they must now endure.  But it isn't something that everyone should get extreme about in the big picture.


----------



## livndisney

live4christp1 said:


> I'm curious as to how much say the trainers have in wether or not it is safe for a show to go on.  If several of the trainers had commented in the last week or show (and even during shows) that the animals were not cooperating.  Or they fill uneasy can the call the show?  Or are they pressured with "the show must go on?"
> 
> While definately not on the same caliber, while visiting Birmingham Zoo this summer and watching the Sea Lion training/show.......at the point were the trainers were working with a larger and more aggressive male. When he refused to cooperate on a couple of occasions the trainers apologized but said that for the safety of both the animal and the trainer they could not continue the show.
> 
> I know that one of the big highlights at SW is the show featuring these magnificient animals but I sure hope that there are measures in place that if the trainer feels it is unsafe they shouldn't feel they have to proceed. If the whales are behaving differently, etc. they shouldn't be forced (or try to force) to perform.
> 
> Sure there will be times people are disappointed by not seeing a show but we will get over it.  How many times have we gone to a park and a ride was broken, a show was canceled due to technical problems, or a parade didn't happen because the weather wouldn't permit it.
> 
> I'd much rather the parks err on the side of caution and keep everyone safe than to be putting someone in danger.



The trainers can and will shut down a show when an animal is not responding. They do not force the animal (like you could force a 20,000 pound mammal lol). They may try the command again or redirect. But safety comes first. Those trainers will not put the animals in danger and they will not put themselves or any other trainer in harms way.


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## KBF

This is my take on everything that happened. First off, the other two incidents Tilly was involved it. The first happened in a Canadien Park in 1991, a trainer slipped and fell in a pool wih tilly and two other female whales. None of these whales had ever had a trainer in the water with them. One of the female whales was pregnent at the time. It was the female whales who grabbed the trainer and started thrashing her around and killed her because the one was pregnant and they were protecting her. The 2nd was in 1999 when a park guest stayed and snuck in th park overnight and decided to swim or fell in with Tilly. The cause of death was ruled Hypothermia as he was naked when he was found. Yes he had bruises on him from Tilly, but if Tilly really wanted to, he could have ripped the guy to shreds. Now this happens. And its a very sad incident. It seems like an accident. Seaworld is saying Tilly grabbed her hair after it fell in front of tilly. And he pulled her down once she was in the tank. 1 incident involving a seaworld trainer is more than enough. But think about how many shows are done each day 365 days a year. Probably 5000+ shows during a year. Seaworld has been opened since the 1970s and this is the first time a trainer has died in the park.

The point of that statement is that Seaworld takes the upmost safety measures when in comes to the animals and trainers. This is an unfortunate accident and im sure they will look into what can be done so this never happens again. As far as Tilly goes, he cant be released into the wild. He would never survive. Whales live in Pods, not on their own. He wouldnt be able to fend for himself and would die. Especially after being in the care of man for so long. And offspring would face the same problem. You cant release a whale after its been in captivity or born in captivity. They cant survive on their own.

People have brought up that the whales misbehave. I have been to Seaworld enough to know that the trainers never frce the whales to do anything they dont want to, if they are having an off day, the trainers will let them be. I happen to know that this time of year is breeding season for the whales and they tend to become aggresive because of this. Sometimes the whales act up when their trying to show dominance to one another. We all have days where were stressed or upset by something. And whales are no exception. They have those days too, whether their in captivity or in the wild. 

So overall, this is a horrible thing that has happened. I think that Seaworld will do everything in their power to make sure this doesnt happen again. I think there will be different ways of handling Tilly in the future such as keeping a certain amount of feet back when interacting with him. Seaworld would never put Tilly down. It wouldnt be right and they know it. Plus if they did, you know how many animal rights activists and regular people would be enraged by that. That would hurt seaworld. So they would never do that. This was an unfortunate accident. And my thoughts and prayors are with Dawn and her friends and family. Hopefully this never happens again.


----------



## steery1

Anyone know if this is her......................?


----------



## MellieluvsDisney

I totaly agree with KBF's comment.

Releasing Tilly into the wild is a death sentence for him. SW should revise their safety procedures, but I think this is just a tragic accident. The trainers know the dangers of working with such big animals, and I doubt that Dawn would've wanted Tilly's death. 

My heart goes out to her husband and family for this tragic accident.


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## live4christp1

livndisney said:


> The trainers can and will shut down a show when an animal is not responding. They do not force the animal (like you could force a 20,000 pound mammal lol). They may try the command again or redirect. But safety comes first. Those trainers will not put the animals in danger and they will not put themselves or any other trainer in harms way.



I'm glad to know that they can indeed stop the show if they feel the need too.  Was just getting the impression from some of the statements to the press from others that they (trainers) had expressed some concern about this particular whale on different occasions.....and then with the comments about the whales or whale not following commands on more the one recent occasion if they (trainers) did indeed have that ability.

I know we've been there before and had shows get canceled because of the weather or cut short but never been there when one of the animals was being a particular problem.

Thanks!


----------



## DisneyFairytale

tcoopman said:


> Just to throw my two cents in...My family and I were there two weeks ago and greatly enjoyed Sea World.  I think this is a terrible accident - no one can really know Tili's intentions.  He's a whale...does it really matter?  Sadly, people die on the job all the time in all different lines of work.  How many orca trainers are killed on the job?  Compared to the number of fishermen who have lost their lives at sea (Deadliest Catch anyone?), or truck drivers killed in vehicle accidents...  I think the trainers' safety record is pretty darn good for a group of people who work with gigantic, intelligent, moody, social animals who eat meat - and that's why this is news.
> 
> Should they look at safety protocols?  Absolutely.  Preventing another occurrence should be the goal but there will never be any guarantees as long as the job involves contact with the whales.
> 
> Does this bring up the "animals should be left in the wild" debate?  Only because this is in the news.  IMO, while we (humans) left everything in the wild, we tried to kill it all - that's a reason there are endangered species.  By taking a few of these animals out of the wild and raising them (and breeding them) in captivity; and displaying their intelligence, the social bond they can create with people, and their majestic beauty, I believe we (humans) are helping to protect the rest of the wild population.  After seeing a show like Believe, who would ever want to kill a creature like that?
> 
> Of course we feel for the trainer's family - it is a terrible tragedy they must now endure.  But it isn't something that everyone should get extreme about in the big picture.



Great post!


----------



## KBF

steery1 said:


> Anyone know if this is her......................?



Thats not her.

Nice picture though.


----------



## Tillikumtrainer

considerably with the latest analysis of the video(s)

the last thing was shown was Dawn laying next to him rubbing Tillikum down. Her hair was in a ponytail and i guess when she signalled him to turn over, her hair was right next to his mouth. Im going to assume from what was shown, her hair was caught in his teeth and as stated the thrashing was him trying to get the hair out of his mouth- there was no blood in the water, if he intentionally wanted to hurt her, he would take her to the bottom and let her drown. (as orky and corky did to their calf). people say they saw him swiming with her in his mouth but never stated waist hand foot etc. However blaniks eyewitness account is embellished if he had grabbed her by the waist she would have been ripped in half, an orca's tooth is the size of a human thumb. there was no blood in the water or his tearing her to pieces as they do with seals and baleen whales.

Cant people face it, a freak accident is a freak accident. DWS has 6 cameras 2 underwater and 4 around the dine with shamu area, two are above on the roof facing the tanks. So im sure they have many angles of this accident. Tillikum is in the medpool but he has access to the other shaded pool. 

Alot of heresay on this subject of freeing the whale and euthenization. they as stated:

 "We have every intention of continuing to interact with this animal, though the procedures for working with him will change. We are still reviewing this incident and will evaluate the situation and make a decision accordingly."

If they were to put Tilly down then they have to put Kasatka down for trying to intentionally drown ken peters and also Ky SWT For trying to drown his trainer in 2004.

Im sure they will observe him for a few days, review the accident in detail as per angles and make changes to interactions/ training techniques. I have spent many years around him on so many occasions, like us they have good and bad days. their moody or just frusterated. You cant assume because the media blew the whole thing out of the water, that their right.


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## Natasha&Matt

An Update

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/busi...orlando-shamu-injury-20100224,0,6076530.story

*SeaWorld Orlando investigation: Killer whale pulled in trainer by ponytail*

*Trainer Dawn Brancheau was pulled underwater by her ponytail; She died from "multiple traumatic injuries and drowning," a new report says*


----------



## doombuggy

Tillikumtrainer said:


> considerably with the latest analysis of the video(s)
> 
> the last thing was shown was Dawn laying next to him rubbing Tillikum down. Her hair was in a ponytail and i guess when she signalled him to turn over, her hair was right next to his mouth. Im going to assume from what was shown, her hair was caught in his teeth and as stated the thrashing was him trying to get the hair out of his mouth- there was no blood in the water, if he intentionally wanted to hurt her, he would take her to the bottom and let her drown. (as orky and corky did to their calf). people say they saw him swiming with her in his mouth but never stated waist hand foot etc. However blaniks eyewitness account is embellished if he had grabbed her by the waist she would have been ripped in half, an orca's tooth is the size of a human thumb. there was no blood in the water or his tearing her to pieces as they do with seals and baleen whales.
> 
> Cant people face it, a freak accident is a freak accident. DWS has 6 cameras 2 underwater and 4 around the dine with shamu area, two are above on the roof facing the tanks. So im sure they have many angles of this accident. Tillikum is in the medpool but he has access to the other shaded pool.
> 
> Alot of heresay on this subject of freeing the whale and euthenization. they as stated:
> 
> "We have every intention of continuing to interact with this animal, though the procedures for working with him will change. We are still reviewing this incident and will evaluate the situation and make a decision accordingly."
> 
> If they were to put Tilly down then they have to put Kasatka down for trying to intentionally drown ken peters and also Ky SWT For trying to drown his trainer in 2004.
> 
> Im sure they will observe him for a few days, review the accident in detail as per angles and make changes to interactions/ training techniques. I have spent many years around him on so many occasions, like us they have good and bad days. their moody or just frusterated. You cant assume because the media blew the whole thing out of the water, that their right.



Excellent post!


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## Rip

TitanBrett said:


> yes yes, by all means, everything is fine, tragic accident....
> 
> I dont care about whales being captive.  What I do care about is that we gain a better understanding of what happened so that it can be avoided in the future.  If the whale did it on purpose or with malice(assuming a whale could have those emotions) then that is something we should know.  It would be dangerous to the trainers if this is turned into some sort of "oh he was just playing" BS.  Of course nobody on here has any idea whether it was an accident or not we are all just speculating.
> 
> As far as not being the time to debate it, if a trainer getting killed is not the time to talk about safety, then when is that time?



That's quite a bit different than saying it would be "refreshing" to hear that the orca did it on purpose.

Generally speaking, debates in the immediate aftermath of something like this (particularly when no one knows the facts) are nothing more than knee-jerk, emotional responses that rarely yield productive results. The fact of the matter is that these and other marine mammals are going to continue to be used for entertainment purposes. If this is nothing more than a case of her hair becoming entangled in his mouth, then there are probably a few minor protocols that would need modifying in order to help prevent something like the from happening again.


----------



## Rip

Tillikumtrainer said:


> considerably with the latest analysis of the video(s)
> 
> the last thing was shown was Dawn laying next to him rubbing Tillikum down. Her hair was in a ponytail and i guess when she signalled him to turn over, her hair was right next to his mouth. Im going to assume from what was shown, her hair was caught in his teeth and as stated the thrashing was him trying to get the hair out of his mouth- there was no blood in the water, if he intentionally wanted to hurt her, he would take her to the bottom and let her drown. (as orky and corky did to their calf). people say they saw him swiming with her in his mouth but never stated waist hand foot etc. However blaniks eyewitness account is embellished if he had grabbed her by the waist she would have been ripped in half, an orca's tooth is the size of a human thumb. there was no blood in the water or his tearing her to pieces as they do with seals and baleen whales.
> 
> Cant people face it, a freak accident is a freak accident. DWS has 6 cameras 2 underwater and 4 around the dine with shamu area, two are above on the roof facing the tanks. So im sure they have many angles of this accident. Tillikum is in the medpool but he has access to the other shaded pool.
> 
> Alot of heresay on this subject of freeing the whale and euthenization. they as stated:
> 
> "We have every intention of continuing to interact with this animal, though the procedures for working with him will change. We are still reviewing this incident and will evaluate the situation and make a decision accordingly."
> 
> If they were to put Tilly down then they have to put Kasatka down for trying to intentionally drown ken peters and also Ky SWT For trying to drown his trainer in 2004.
> 
> Im sure they will observe him for a few days, review the accident in detail as per angles and make changes to interactions/ training techniques. I have spent many years around him on so many occasions, like us they have good and bad days. their moody or just frusterated. You cant assume because the media blew the whole thing out of the water, that their right.


----------



## Kallisti

I'm pretty sure this is her, and I'm also sure it's how she'd like to be remembered - working and playing with the animals she loves...  (June 2007, Believe show by the way)


----------



## Head_in_the_clouds

Yes, that is her .


----------



## TitanBrett

Rip said:


> That's quite a bit different than saying it would be "refreshing" to hear that the orca did it on purpose.
> 
> Generally speaking, debates in the immediate aftermath of something like this (particularly when no one knows the facts) are nothing more than knee-jerk, emotional responses that rarely yield productive results. The fact of the matter is that these and other marine mammals are going to continue to be used for entertainment purposes. If this is nothing more than a case of her hair becoming entangled in his mouth, then there are probably a few minor protocols that would need modifying in order to help prevent something like the from happening again.



By refreshing I mean it would be nice for them to not spin the event into some sort of "bad luck" happenstance.  nobody is ever going to know what was in the mind of that whale and if Sea World's official story becomes "death by ponytail" I'm going to be disappointed in them.  I think it should be stressed by Sea World that hopefully this was horseplay gone awry but we will never know for sure and that these whales have feelings and emotions both positive and negative.  tbo.com was reporting earlier that the whale had to be lured into that pen and raised out of the water before they could retrieve the trainer's body.  That doesnt sound like merely a snagged pony tail to me.


----------



## KBF

TitanBrett said:


> By refreshing I mean it would be nice for them to not spin the event into some sort of "bad luck" happenstance.  nobody is ever going to know what was in the mind of that whale and if Sea World's official story becomes "death by ponytail" I'm going to be disappointed in them.  I think it should be stressed by Sea World that hopefully this was horseplay gone awry but we will never know for sure and that these whales have feelings and emotions both positive and negative.  tbo.com was reporting earlier that the whale had to be lured into that pen and raised out of the water before they could retrieve the trainer's body.  That doesnt sound like merely a snagged pony tail to me.



You have tounderstand, that this whale NEVER has a trainer in the tank with him. And when she was in, you can only imagine the what the whale was thinking. It could have started out harmless with the whales curiosity of what her ponytail was. Maybe he thought it was something to play with. So he tugged at it and she fell in. When she was in, the whale may have seen her as something to play with. Remember, he isnt used to having anyone in his tank with him. If youve ever had a dog, and you give him a new chew toy, he is going to hold that in his mouth playing with it for awhile and he is not going to let it go for anything. Because thats something fun for him and something entertaining. Tilly, if he thought she was a toy, wasnt going to give her up until he was done playing with her. If he was really intending to hurt her, she would have had ripped to shreds. As someone else pointed out, there was no blood. Yes there were signs of trauma, but thats to be expected if your being dragged around by a 12,000 pound animal.


----------



## NemoMom07

KBF said:


> This is my take on everything that happened. First off, the other two incidents Tilly was involved it. The first happened in a Canadien Park in 1991, a trainer slipped and fell in a pool wih tilly and two other female whales. None of these whales had ever had a trainer in the water with them. One of the female whales was pregnent at the time. It was the female whales who grabbed the trainer and started thrashing her around and killed her because the one was pregnant and they were protecting her. The 2nd was in 1999 when a park guest stayed and snuck in th park overnight and decided to swim or fell in with Tilly. The cause of death was ruled Hypothermia as he was naked when he was found. Yes he had bruises on him from Tilly, but if Tilly really wanted to, he could have ripped the guy to shreds. Now this happens. And its a very sad incident. It seems like an accident. Seaworld is saying Tilly grabbed her hair after it fell in front of tilly. And he pulled her down once she was in the tank. 1 incident involving a seaworld trainer is more than enough. But think about how many shows are done each day 365 days a year. Probably 5000+ shows during a year. Seaworld has been opened since the 1970s and this is the first time a trainer has died in the park.
> 
> The point of that statement is that Seaworld takes the upmost safety measures when in comes to the animals and trainers. This is an unfortunate accident and im sure they will look into what can be done so this never happens again. As far as Tilly goes, he cant be released into the wild. He would never survive. Whales live in Pods, not on their own. He wouldnt be able to fend for himself and would die. Especially after being in the care of man for so long. And offspring would face the same problem. You cant release a whale after its been in captivity or born in captivity. They cant survive on their own.
> 
> People have brought up that the whales misbehave. I have been to Seaworld enough to know that the trainers never frce the whales to do anything they dont want to, if they are having an off day, the trainers will let them be. I happen to know that this time of year is breeding season for the whales and they tend to become aggresive because of this. Sometimes the whales act up when their trying to show dominance to one another. We all have days where were stressed or upset by something. And whales are no exception. They have those days too, whether their in captivity or in the wild.
> 
> So overall, this is a horrible thing that has happened. I think that Seaworld will do everything in their power to make sure this doesnt happen again. I think there will be different ways of handling Tilly in the future such as keeping a certain amount of feet back when interacting with him. Seaworld would never put Tilly down. It wouldnt be right and they know it. Plus if they did, you know how many animal rights activists and regular people would be enraged by that. That would hurt seaworld. So they would never do that. This was an unfortunate accident. And my thoughts and prayors are with Dawn and her friends and family. Hopefully this never happens again.



Beatifully stated.


----------



## nana2tots

If this was the first accident i could understand, but from what i am hearing , this is the 3rd person killed from this whale, don't u think something should be done about this. 
 I know i want be going back, because they should respect their employees better than this. She probaly had no choice , she was doing her job.
 I Pray that this family can get through this, and i hope Seaworld pays  deeply for this. It's uncall for to have such Vicious animal on display.


----------



## TitanBrett

KBF said:


> You have tounderstand, that this whale NEVER has a trainer in the tank with him. And when she was in, you can only imagine the what the whale was thinking. It could have started out harmless with the whales curiosity of what her ponytail was. Maybe he thought it was something to play with. So he tugged at it and she fell in. When she was in, the whale may have seen her as something to play with. Remember, he isnt used to having anyone in his tank with him. If youve ever had a dog, and you give him a new chew toy, he is going to hold that in his mouth playing with it for awhile and he is not going to let it go for anything. Because thats something fun for him and something entertaining. Tilly, if he thought she was a toy, wasnt going to give her up until he was done playing with her. If he was really intending to hurt her, she would have had ripped to shreds. As someone else pointed out, there was no blood. Yes there were signs of trauma, but thats to be expected if your being dragged around by a 12,000 pound animal.



As a passholder I have seen all the different whale shows numerous times so I am well aware that they dont get in the water with him.  All I am saying is that we will never know the intent of the whale and it's just a little too simple to say it was the pony tail, case closed.  Regarding the lack of blood, whales dont necessarily use their teeth to kill something they dont intend to eat.  Obviously there is a need on this board for everyone to believe that it was just some silly hair malfunction, to that end Ill bow out of this conversation.


----------



## Rip

TitanBrett said:


> By refreshing I mean it would be nice for them to not spin the event into some sort of "bad luck" happenstance.  nobody is ever going to know what was in the mind of that whale and if Sea World's official story becomes "death by ponytail" I'm going to be disappointed in them.  I think it should be stressed by Sea World that hopefully this was horseplay gone awry but we will never know for sure and that these whales have feelings and emotions both positive and negative.  tbo.com was reporting earlier that the whale had to be lured into that pen and raised out of the water before they could retrieve the trainer's body.  That doesnt sound like merely a snagged pony tail to me.



I think someone stated earlier that there are multiple video cameras in and around that tank, so I'm sure the proper authorities will be able to tell if it was a freak accident or not. I guess I'm just not as cynical as some because the most plausible explanation for it seems to be just that, that it was a freak accident and nothing more. I realize it makes better headlines to throw in the other two deaths that he was associated with, but when you find out that the first one was due to another orca pulling the girl in the pool and the second was a guy dying from hypothermia due to climbing in his tank naked at night, it kinda takes the shock value away.

As far as the report you reference, it could be that the animal was distressed because of the incident itself, or they could be totally incorrect or exaggerating. It was pretty well shown that the news was getting 2-3 things wrong for every 1 thing they got right.


----------



## NemoMom07

nana2tots said:


> If this was the first accident i could understand, but from what i am hearing , this is the 3rd person killed from this whale, don't u think something should be done about this.
> I know i want be going back, because they should respect their employees better than this. She probaly had no choice , she was doing her job.
> I Pray that this family can get through this, and i hope Seaworld pays  deeply for this. It's uncall for to have such Vicious animal on display.



Read the post by KBF. It explains the other 2 incidents. Tiliy was in the wrong place at the wrong time you could say. Tiliy never went out and attacked the victims.


----------



## Rip

nana2tots said:


> If this was the first accident i could understand, but from what i am hearing , this is the 3rd person killed from this whale, don't u think something should be done about this.
> I know i want be going back, because they should respect their employees better than this. She probaly had no choice , she was doing her job.
> I Pray that this family can get through this, and i hope Seaworld pays  deeply for this. It's uncall for to have such Vicious animal on display.



Well, the first time it was another orca entirely that grabbed the girl and dragged her into the tank. The second time, some stoner climbed into his tank at night, naked, and died of hypothermia. I think you should probably listen to what her own family is saying, but it seems from your tone that you have your mind made up irrespective of actual facts.


----------



## KBF

TitanBrett said:


> As a passholder I have seen all the different whale shows numerous times so I am well aware that they dont get in the water with him.  All I am saying is that we will never know the intent of the whale and it's just a little too simple to say it was the pony tail, case closed.  Regarding the lack of blood, whales dont necessarily use their teeth to kill something they dont intend to eat.  Obviously there is a need on this board for everyone to believe that it was just some silly hair malfunction, to that end Ill bow out of this conversation.



Were all looking for answers. Whatever the case may be, it was a sad event which hopefully never happens again.


----------



## Thumper_Man

KBF said:


> This is my take on everything that happened. First off, the other two incidents Tilly was involved it. The first happened in a Canadien Park in 1991, a trainer slipped and fell in a pool wih tilly and two other female whales. None of these whales had ever had a trainer in the water with them. One of the female whales was pregnent at the time. It was the female whales who grabbed the trainer and started thrashing her around and killed her because the one was pregnant and they were protecting her. The 2nd was in 1999 when a park guest stayed and snuck in th park overnight and decided to swim or fell in with Tilly. The cause of death was ruled Hypothermia as he was naked when he was found. Yes he had bruises on him from Tilly, but if Tilly really wanted to, he could have ripped the guy to shreds. Now this happens. And its a very sad incident. It seems like an accident. Seaworld is saying Tilly grabbed her hair after it fell in front of tilly. And he pulled her down once she was in the tank. 1 incident involving a seaworld trainer is more than enough. But think about how many shows are done each day 365 days a year. Probably 5000+ shows during a year. Seaworld has been opened since the 1970s and this is the first time a trainer has died in the park.
> 
> The point of that statement is that Seaworld takes the upmost safety measures when in comes to the animals and trainers. This is an unfortunate accident and im sure they will look into what can be done so this never happens again. As far as Tilly goes, he cant be released into the wild. He would never survive. Whales live in Pods, not on their own. He wouldnt be able to fend for himself and would die. Especially after being in the care of man for so long. And offspring would face the same problem. You cant release a whale after its been in captivity or born in captivity. They cant survive on their own.
> 
> People have brought up that the whales misbehave. I have been to Seaworld enough to know that the trainers never frce the whales to do anything they dont want to, if they are having an off day, the trainers will let them be. I happen to know that this time of year is breeding season for the whales and they tend to become aggresive because of this. Sometimes the whales act up when their trying to show dominance to one another. We all have days where were stressed or upset by something. And whales are no exception. They have those days too, whether their in captivity or in the wild.
> 
> So overall, this is a horrible thing that has happened. I think that Seaworld will do everything in their power to make sure this doesnt happen again. I think there will be different ways of handling Tilly in the future such as keeping a certain amount of feet back when interacting with him. Seaworld would never put Tilly down. It wouldnt be right and they know it. Plus if they did, you know how many animal rights activists and regular people would be enraged by that. That would hurt seaworld. So they would never do that. This was an unfortunate accident. And my thoughts and prayors are with Dawn and her friends and family. Hopefully this never happens again.



Nicely said.  

On our last trip to SW, we experienced first hand about the trainers not forcing the whales to perform.  The dominant female was in no mood to perform, so the others females followed her lead.  The trainers tried to entice them to do some tricks; but the whales refused so the trainers just let them be.  The trainers gave the crowd a history lesson about the whales and called off the show after 10 minutes when they were certain the whales were not up to performing.


----------



## SandrA9810

I've seen Blue Horizons cut out the whale scene because they were just swimming back and forth really fast. 

All the trainers know the potential dangers of doing their job. It's stated over and over again. While this might be a rare instance, anything can happen with large whales. They know it every time they get in that tank. So don't act like she didn't know that this could happen.


----------



## JennMouse32

of course everyone will blame the orca.. its always the animals fault..  its their fault they are esstienally wild animals that have wild instincts and are in captivity..oh yeah sure blame the animal.. just some dumb creature.. more like stupid humans..yes i feel very strongly about this.. it is a tragedy that someone was killed..it always is.. but it is stillunfair to blame it on the animal...   the lady killed worked there for 12 years, she knew the risk she took everyday with those orcas..​


----------



## Rip

JennMouse32 said:


> of course everyone will blame the orca.. its always the animals fault..  its their fault they are esstienally wild animals that have wild instincts and are in captivity..oh yeah sure blame the animal.. just some dumb creature.. more like stupid humans..yes i feel very strongly about this.. it is a tragedy that someone was killed..it always is.. but it is stillunfair to blame it on the animal...   the lady killed worked there for 12 years, she knew the risk she took everyday with those orcas..​



I don't think anyone is blaming either the animal or the trainer.


----------



## JennMouse32

they will.. any animal hurting/killing a human they blame the  animal and usually kill them..​


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## donaldduck352

JennMouse32 said:


> they will.. any animal hurting/killing a human they blame the  animal and usually kill them..​



*No there not gonna put Tilli down.I think they will move it to another aquarium were there will be less human contact!!!

I and many are not blaming the animal,like other posters stated she known the risk in her job.Watching the news tonight the family wrote A letter to SW and stated that working with these animals is what she wanted and loved.*


----------



## Poohbear123

I agree with Bob Barker in this case..I have never been to SeaWorld and have NO desire to go there. The Whale and Dolphin shows are NOT entertaining to me, and I feel very sorry for them, as they deserve a better life than what they have inside a small tank, to entertain humans. Its deplorable... I feel sorry for the trainer and her Family also....


----------



## mylittleprincess

So I guess that everyone that is against Sea World & having Dolphins & Whales in captivity feels that all animals in zoos should be let go as well? My heart goes out to the family of Dawn & to the Sea World family.


----------



## livndisney

nana2tots said:


> If this was the first accident i could understand, but from what i am hearing , this is the 3rd person killed from this whale, don't u think something should be done about this.
> I know i want be going back, because they should respect their employees better than this. She probaly had no choice , she was doing her job.
> I Pray that this family can get through this, and i hope Seaworld pays  deeply for this. It's uncall for to have such Vicious animal on display.



Why would you say Sea World doesn't respect their employees?  Are you an employee? 

Dawn was doing what she loved. She spent so much time with these animals-her own family says they were like her "children".


----------



## Timmy Boy

nana2tots said:


> If this was the first accident i could understand, but from what i am hearing , this is the 3rd person killed from this whale, don't u think something should be done about this.
> I know i want be going back, because they should respect their employees better than this. She probaly had no choice , she was doing her job.
> I Pray that this family can get through this, and i hope Seaworld pays  deeply for this. It's uncall for to have such Vicious animal on display.


You sound like someone who would have said "This would have never happened at Disney." 

Shame on you.


----------



## SandrA9810

We've been domesticating animals for how long now?? 
Why is a dog any different than a whale? because there's more of them? Because it can fit into your lap? I swear people turn into PETA the minute a "wild" animal becomes headlines. But they still see no problem with having a pet at home. At one point in time dogs and cats were wild animals and took thousands of years to get them to the point they are now. Want to talk about larger animals, several easter nations use "domesticated" elephants and camels as a way of getting around. We use horses.


----------



## KBF

SandrA9810 said:


> We've been domesticating animals for how long now??
> Why is a dog any different than a whale? because there's more of them? Because it can fit into your lap? I swear people turn into PETA the minute a "wild" animal becomes headlines. But they still see no problem with having a pet at home. At one point in time dogs and cats were wild animals and took thousands of years to get them to the point they are now. Want to talk about larger animals, several easter nations use "domesticated" elephants and camels as a way of getting around. We use horses.



Great Points.

People seem to forget too that 90% of Seaworlds whales were born in captivity. The others were caught in the wild by other parks and seaworld rescued them from poor conditions in those parks (Tilly for example) I think there are 2 out of the 20 or so that were caught by Seaworld in the wild. But that was in the 1970s when we were first learning about these animals. If Seaworld today still went out and captured these animals, my opinion may be different. But because they were born in captivity, I say leave them in captivity. They get the best vet care, 24/7 attention, plenty of exercise, etc.


----------



## slowtalken

In all three instances the whale involved, Tilikum, drowned his victims. Also, in all three cases the victims were either in the water with the animal at the time of attack or shortly before. In a statement by SeaWorld "Trainers do interact with Tilikum from the sides of the pool, but do not enter the water with him." However, a video recorded during and after Tilikum's last show with trainer Dawn Brancheau clearly shows her intereacting with him in the water. 

Read more at here:
Sea World Trainer Killed


----------



## KBF

slowtalken said:


> In all three instances the whale involved, Tilikum, drowned his victims. Also, in all three cases the victims were either in the water with the animal at the time of attack or shortly before. In a statement by SeaWorld "Trainers do interact with Tilikum from the sides of the pool, but do not enter the water with him." However, a video recorded during and after Tilikum's last show with trainer Dawn Brancheau clearly shows her intereacting with him in the water.
> 
> Read more at here:
> Sea World Trainer Killed



Your statement is false. Dont believe the news stations because 90% of the things their saying are incorrect. It was 2 female killer whales who were in a tank with Tilly who killed the trainer in Canada in 1991. The guy who snuck into the park died of hypothermia, not drowning. An Autopsy proved this. And now, yes Tilly can be responsible for this death. But its my personal opinion that it was a matter of him "playing" and not being aggresive.

About the video, first off, I saw it and I cant believe news stations released that. Even though it doesnt show her being pulled in, its still discusting. Just like the garbage the media is. 2nd off, yes she was in the water, but not completely in. She on a ledge in knee deep water. That would be the edge of the pool. Just like the edge of a swimming pool at your home.


----------



## Rip

slowtalken said:


> In all three instances the whale involved, Tilikum, drowned his victims. Also, in all three cases the victims were either in the water with the animal at the time of attack or shortly before. In a statement by SeaWorld "Trainers do interact with Tilikum from the sides of the pool, but do not enter the water with him." However, a video recorded during and after Tilikum's last show with trainer Dawn Brancheau clearly shows her intereacting with him in the water.
> 
> Read more at here:
> Sea World Trainer Killed




Nope, Haida drowned the first one, the second one died of a combination of hypothermia and possible drowning, though there was never any evidence that Tilikum had anything to do with his death. I mean, he was stoned to the point that he took off his clothes and climbed into a tank with a 12,000 pound animal in 55 degree water at night.


----------



## irislogic

Is there anything in the news yet what Sea World plans to do with Tilikum? I've actually come across a lot of people who aren't surprised by this news, seeing as Tilikum is a KILLER whale...


----------



## SandrA9810

Some readings have said his swim trunks were found at the bottom of the pool. 


With seeing the video, I can see how the "first report" got out, about being dragged in by the waist. But on a phone conversation with a former employee, he said that the trainers are allowed to be on the edge. Just not fully submerged into the tank. I'm sure rules like that will be changed now. 
And like a lot of animals, they will hold onto something they "love"... like a doggie that will carry around a stuffed animal. Never chewing it to shreds, but keep it where ever it goes. And I think that's part of the case with Tili. He didn't know she was dead or he was harming her, but wanted to hang on to her. If not, he could've just dropped her anywhere along the way to the other tank.


----------



## livndisney

irislogic said:


> Is there anything in the news yet what Sea World plans to do with Tilikum? I've actually come across a lot of people who aren't surprised by this news, seeing as Tilikum is a KILLER whale...



Sea World has no plans to DO anything with this whale. No plans to move, release or "retire" the whale. They do plan to modify the safety guidelines.


----------



## KBF

> Is there anything in the news yet what Sea World plans to do with Tilikum? I've actually come across a lot of people who aren't surprised by this news, seeing as Tilikum is a KILLER whale...



From what I heard, he is staying at Seaworld. I believe this is the right thing to do. Im sure added safety procedures will be put into place.

I did see on the Seaworld website that the Believe shows will resume on Saturday. But Dine with Shamu is suspended until further notice.



SandrA9810 said:


> Some readings have said his swim trunks were found at the bottom of the pool.
> 
> 
> With seeing the video, I can see how the "first report" got out, about being dragged in by the waist. But on a phone conversation with a former employee, he said that the trainers are allowed to be on the edge. Just not fully submerged into the tank. I'm sure rules like that will be changed now.
> And like a lot of animals, they will hold onto something they "love"... like a doggie that will carry around a stuffed animal. Never chewing it to shreds, but keep it where ever it goes. And I think that's part of the case with Tili. He didn't know she was dead or he was harming her, but wanted to hang on to her. If not, he could've just dropped her anywhere along the way to the other tank.



I agree with you. Tilly doesnt understand how big he is. And that humans cant hold their breath as long as he can. He doesnt understand his own strength. Thats the main reason no one goes into the water with him. If they believed he was agressive they wouldnt even allow the trainers to get on the side of the pool with him. Obviously things may change now. But I do think that Tilly was playing.


----------



## SandrA9810

I was there earlier today. And I really do feel sorry for the people that got stuck standing in front of Shamu stadium. I know people can be so cruel and rude, and they just have to stand there and let it roll off. And then there's the annoying people that "think" they'll get answers by being obnoxious. Same thing happened at Disney in July... 
They also kept the sky tower closed today. I'll definatly be glad to see the show resume, and to see Tilikum out performing. 

I wasn't planning on going Saturday, but I do plan on being there on Wenesday. Although the website is not showing the correct info... So I guess we'll see if it'll go on.


----------



## mylittleprincess

I also agree that Tili thought he was in play mode with Dawn. This was truly a tragic accident!!! As for the man that was a dumba** that went into Sea World AFTER closing. Sorry, that is his own fault & there is there evidence that Tili killed this man? The pic below is proof that there is indeed LOVE between the trainer & the whale. They LOVE their jobs & these whales form a bond with their trainers as any of our own household pets form with us. 

FYI Good Morning America is showing a video right now & she was in a slideout that was 4 in deep. Former trainer said Dawn may have broken the protocal.  


I am not sure if this is Dawn in photo?


----------



## doombuggy

Seaworld is having a press conference today.

Our thoughts and prayers go out to Dawn's family and her Seaworld family.


----------



## julieannbabe

nana2tots said:


> If this was the first accident i could understand, but from what i am hearing , this is the 3rd person killed from this whale, don't u think something should be done about this.
> I know i want be going back, because they should respect their employees better than this. She probaly had no choice , she was doing her job.
> I Pray that this family can get through this, and i hope Seaworld pays  deeply for this. It's uncall for to have such Vicious animal on display.



vicious animal on display? ***?! it a wild animal!

you think that it wanted to be captured then end up doing tricks in the space that is the same size as a bath tub???


----------



## keithandmissy

julieannbabe said:


> you think that it wanted to be captured then end up doing tricks in the space that is the same size as a bath tub???



Your bath tub must be extremely large!


----------



## karibritt01

julieannbabe said:


> doing tricks in the space that is the same size as a bath tub???



Not quite sure where this "bath tub" comparison is coming from.  I would love to see the bathtubs you people apparently have in your homes.  I think it would be more like comparing it to us in a large swimming pool.


----------



## julieannbabe

karibritt01 said:


> Not quite sure where this "bath tub" comparison is coming from.  I would love to see the bathtubs you people apparently have in your homes.  I think it would be more like comparing it to us in a large swimming pool.



'us people' in the uk have mainly tiny bathubes - all i am saying is the holding pens they put them are tiny - just making a point that the area that the whales are keep in are very very small.
thats the comparison i was making.

sorry if people didn't understand where i was coming from.


----------



## melly

julieannbabe said:


> 'us people' in the uk have mainly tiny bathubes - all i am saying is the holding pens they put them are tiny - just making a point that the area that the whales are keep in are very very small.
> thats the comparison i was making.
> 
> sorry if people didn't understand where i was coming from.



They still think we all live in castles supping tea and so probably dint realise it was written metaphorically.


----------



## Tillikumtrainer

here is the latest video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Aaoouyj8bU


----------



## karibritt01

melly said:


> They still think we all live in castles supping tea and so probably dint realise it was written metaphorically.



No... just dumping chamber pots out of your window into the street.


----------



## jenelope

Dawn Brancheau was my cousin's wife. Though I'm sure some of her family have conflicted feelings about Tillikum (I'm one of them), I don't think there's one person who knew and loved Dawn who thinks he should be destroyed. Dawn loved and respected the orcas, and always put their welfare first. Before heading down to Orlando for my last WDW trip, I sent Dawn an e-mail asking if my orca-adoring friend could possibly meet one of them. This was her response: 





> I don't know if you can imagine the number of requests I get like this.  I really just have to draw the line somewhere to keep the amount of PR interactions under control and keep us the best balance with the animals. I ask my team to do the same.



It was a terribly tragic accident, but I believe it was truly an accident. Even the most well-trained person can make an error at work, whether it's accidentally deleting a file, failing to switch a monorail track, or laying down on a slide out that you usually stand on. In the best circumstances, you might get a jolt and resolve to be more alert. In the worst, someone can get injured or killed. Dawn was not actually in the tank, but she did break protocol by lying down instead of standing or kneeling. I think the error shows that Dawn loved and trusted Tilly enough to do something out of the ordinary while she was playing with him. She couldn't predict that something as silly as her ponytail sliding to a different position could result in her death. Nor could she or Tilly control his reaction to this fluke accident. 

Dawn will be greatly missed by everyone who knew her. She was a very special person, a great wife and a much-loved aunt, sister, daughter, cousin and friend. I wish my cousin and the rest of Dawn's family could have been spared all of the speculation, exploitation and above all, the insults aimed at Dawn on certain sites, but this is the nature of this kind of tragedy. All those who care about her as a person and don't regard her as a news item can do is send our love, sympathy and prayers.


----------



## thelittlemermaid83

Thoughts and prays to Dawns family and friends.

She died doing what she loved, she may be gone but she will not be forgotten.


----------



## mylittleprincess

http://www.wesh.com/video/22679520/index.html


----------



## livndisney

jenelope said:


> Dawn Brancheau was my cousin's wife. Though I'm sure some of her family have conflicted feelings about Tillikum (I'm one of them), I don't think there's one person who knew and loved Dawn who thinks he should be destroyed. Dawn loved and respected the orcas, and always put their welfare first. Before heading down to Orlando for my last WDW trip, I sent Dawn an e-mail asking if my orca-adoring friend could possibly meet one of them. This was her response:
> 
> It was a terribly tragic accident, but I believe it was truly an accident. Even the most well-trained person can make an error at work, whether it's accidentally deleting a file, failing to switch a monorail track, or laying down on a slide out that you usually stand on. In the best circumstances, you might get a jolt and resolve to be more alert. In the worst, someone can get injured or killed. Dawn was not actually in the tank, but she did break protocol by lying down instead of standing or kneeling. I think the error shows that Dawn loved and trusted Tilly enough to do something out of the ordinary while she was playing with him. She couldn't predict that something as silly as her ponytail sliding to a different position could result in her death. Nor could she or Tilly control his reaction to this fluke accident.
> 
> Dawn will be greatly missed by everyone who knew her. She was a very special person, a great wife and a much-loved aunt, sister, daughter, cousin and friend. I wish my cousin and the rest of Dawn's family could have been spared all of the speculation, exploitation and above all, the insults aimed at Dawn on certain sites, but this is the nature of this kind of tragedy. *All those who care about her as a person and don't regard her as a news item can do is send our love, sympathy and prayers*.



I think is very well said. Dawn was a person, not a news story.

Sent you a PM.


----------



## TiffinyKC

KBF said:


> This is my take on everything that happened. First off, the other two incidents Tilly was involved it. The first happened in a Canadien Park in 1991, a trainer slipped and fell in a pool wih tilly and two other female whales. None of these whales had ever had a trainer in the water with them. One of the female whales was pregnent at the time. It was the female whales who grabbed the trainer and started thrashing her around and killed her because the one was pregnant and they were protecting her. The 2nd was in 1999 when a park guest stayed and snuck in th park overnight and decided to swim or fell in with Tilly. The cause of death was ruled Hypothermia as he was naked when he was found. Yes he had bruises on him from Tilly, but if Tilly really wanted to, he could have ripped the guy to shreds. Now this happens. And its a very sad incident. It seems like an accident. Seaworld is saying Tilly grabbed her hair after it fell in front of tilly. And he pulled her down once she was in the tank. 1 incident involving a seaworld trainer is more than enough. But think about how many shows are done each day 365 days a year. Probably 5000+ shows during a year. Seaworld has been opened since the 1970s and this is the first time a trainer has died in the park.
> 
> The point of that statement is that Seaworld takes the upmost safety measures when in comes to the animals and trainers. This is an unfortunate accident and im sure they will look into what can be done so this never happens again. As far as Tilly goes, he cant be released into the wild. He would never survive. Whales live in Pods, not on their own. He wouldnt be able to fend for himself and would die. Especially after being in the care of man for so long. And offspring would face the same problem. You cant release a whale after its been in captivity or born in captivity. They cant survive on their own.
> 
> People have brought up that the whales misbehave. I have been to Seaworld enough to know that the trainers never frce the whales to do anything they dont want to, if they are having an off day, the trainers will let them be. I happen to know that this time of year is breeding season for the whales and they tend to become aggresive because of this. Sometimes the whales act up when their trying to show dominance to one another. We all have days where were stressed or upset by something. And whales are no exception. They have those days too, whether their in captivity or in the wild.
> 
> So overall, this is a horrible thing that has happened. I think that Seaworld will do everything in their power to make sure this doesnt happen again. I think there will be different ways of handling Tilly in the future such as keeping a certain amount of feet back when interacting with him. Seaworld would never put Tilly down. It wouldnt be right and they know it. Plus if they did, you know how many animal rights activists and regular people would be enraged by that. That would hurt seaworld. So they would never do that. This was an unfortunate accident. And my thoughts and prayors are with Dawn and her friends and family. Hopefully this never happens again.



I'm behind on this thread and I just caught up. This post says it all in my opinion. Well done.

I just really wish the people who are hearing the little news snipets that Tilly killed two before this would take the time to listen to the whole story and learn a little more about the nature of these animals before passing immediate judgement. 

My thoughts are still with the family and friends of the victim. My son and I watched the footage we took on our last trip of Dawn and Tilly last night (we filmed our Dine with Shamu experience). It was very moving.


----------



## surfergirl602

jenelope said:


> Dawn Brancheau was my cousin's wife. Though I'm sure some of her family have conflicted feelings about Tillikum (I'm one of them), I don't think there's one person who knew and loved Dawn who thinks he should be destroyed. Dawn loved and respected the orcas, and always put their welfare first. Before heading down to Orlando for my last WDW trip, I sent Dawn an e-mail asking if my orca-adoring friend could possibly meet one of them. This was her response:
> 
> It was a terribly tragic accident, but I believe it was truly an accident. Even the most well-trained person can make an error at work, whether it's accidentally deleting a file, failing to switch a monorail track, or laying down on a slide out that you usually stand on. In the best circumstances, you might get a jolt and resolve to be more alert. In the worst, someone can get injured or killed. Dawn was not actually in the tank, but she did break protocol by lying down instead of standing or kneeling. I think the error shows that Dawn loved and trusted Tilly enough to do something out of the ordinary while she was playing with him. She couldn't predict that something as silly as her ponytail sliding to a different position could result in her death. Nor could she or Tilly control his reaction to this fluke accident.
> 
> Dawn will be greatly missed by everyone who knew her. She was a very special person, a great wife and a much-loved aunt, sister, daughter, cousin and friend. I wish my cousin and the rest of Dawn's family could have been spared all of the speculation, exploitation and above all, the insults aimed at Dawn on certain sites, but this is the nature of this kind of tragedy. All those who care about her as a person and don't regard her as a news item can do is send our love, sympathy and prayers.



Thank you for our post.  My heart goes out to yours and Dawn's family during this tragic time.


----------



## tpettie

jenelope said:


> Dawn Brancheau was my cousin's wife.



Thanks you for posting.  My heart heavy with sadness over this.  Please know many thought are with all of you.


----------



## PaulaSB12

KBF said:


> Great Points.
> 
> People seem to forget too that 90% of Seaworlds whales were born in captivity. The others were caught in the wild by other parks and seaworld rescued them from poor conditions in those parks (Tilly for example) I think there are 2 out of the 20 or so that were caught by Seaworld in the wild. But that was in the 1970s when we were first learning about these animals. If Seaworld today still went out and captured these animals, my opinion may be different. But because they were born in captivity, I say leave them in captivity. They get the best vet care, 24/7 attention, plenty of exercise, etc.



In captivity their life span is halved, there is no way they can get enough exercise they can dive dive to up to 200ft how far can they go in that fishbowl they have, they are kept in totally unnatural situation in the wild families stay together forever.  In captivity they are bred and in some cases seperated from their mother at 6 months in the wild they are still being mouth fed when they are a year.  They cant be released so stop breeding them and let them die out they where not put on this planet to be our toys.


----------



## summerrluvv

Jenelope, I am very sorry for the loss of your beloved family member 

My son and I went to SW last year for the first time.  I had no idea how amazing the Believe show would be. I thought it would be just a few whales jumping around.  My son loved it so much we had to see it twice.  It was simply amazing to see him get so excited over a show, especially since emotion isn't one of his strong points, as he is on the autism spectrum.  

Her memory will live on at SW, I'm sure of that.


----------



## HeatherPage

I think the people on here with their PETA leaning tendencies and own agendas are being very disrespectful to Dawn's memory, especially in light of the fact that a family member of hers has now posted on here.  

It's fine if you have the views and opinions you have, but this thread is not the place.  If you feel that strongly about it, start your own website, post a video on YouTube, make a page on Facebook, but to interject your hostile feelings and beliefs on this thread towards Dawn, Tilly or Seaworld (with the latter two totally intertwined with Dawn) which is essentially a rest in peace or in memorium thread, is totally disrespectful!

I'm not a person who values animal lives over human beings, but I do also love animals and know that human beings are responsible for a lot of their suffering in this world, however - this is not one of those times.  Tilly and all the other animals at Sea World are loved and taken care of and you could see that just from the few videos or pictures I've seen of Dawn and the other trainers that work there.  Their faces are literally lit up with love and joy almost to the point where you couldn't imagine their smiles getting any bigger.

I feel so very sorry for Dawn and her family and friends but I also feel sorry for Tilly because I'm sure these creatures have feelings of their own and I bet one day he'll realize she isn't around anymore...


----------



## mylittleprincess

HeatherPage said:


> I think the people on here with their PETA leaning tendencies and own agendas are being very disrespectful to Dawn's memory, especially in light of the fact that a family member of hers has now posted on here.
> 
> It's fine if you have the views and opinions you have, but this thread is not the place.  If you feel that strongly about it, start your own website, post a video on YouTube, make a page on Facebook, but to interject your hostile feelings and beliefs on this thread towards Dawn, Tilly or Seaworld (with the latter two totally intertwined with Dawn) which is essentially a rest in peace or in memorium thread, is totally disrespectful!
> 
> I'm not a person who values animal lives over human beings, but I do also love animals and know that human beings are responsible for a lot of their suffering in this world, however - this is not one of those times.  Tilly and all the other animals at Sea World are loved and taken care of and you could see that just from the few videos or pictures I've seen of Dawn and the other trainers that work there.  There faces are literally lit up with love and joy almost to the point where you couldn't imagine there smiles getting any bigger.
> 
> I feel so very sorry for Dawn and her family and friends but I also feel sorry for Tilly because I'm sure these creatures have feelings of their own and I bet one day he'll realize she isn't around anymore...





n Very well said!!! Thank you for posting that!!


----------



## clutter

jenelope said:


> Dawn Brancheau was my cousin's wife.



I just wanted to say that Dawn was the one trainer that I remembered from my visits to SeaWorld.  Her love for the animals really showed, so much so that it was memorable.

I want to express my deepest sympathy to your family, and to let them know what an impression she made with total strangers.


----------



## kellyw8863

I have never been to Sea World, but the one thing that gets me everytime I read a story about this or watch a newscast is the absolute joy on Dawn's face as she interacts with these animals.  This whole thing is just incredibly sad and tragic.  My heart goes out to those who knew her.


----------



## KBF

PaulaSB12 said:


> In captivity their life span is halved, there is no way they can get enough exercise they can dive dive to up to 200ft how far can they go in that fishbowl they have, they are kept in totally unnatural situation in the wild families stay together forever.  In captivity they are bred and in some cases seperated from their mother at 6 months in the wild they are still being mouth fed when they are a year.  They cant be released so stop breeding them and let them die out they where not put on this planet to be our toys.



False. Maybe in other places but the baby whales stay with their mothers at Seaworld until they are mature enough to be on their own.

True they cant be released. But we need to keep these animals to learn more about them and research them so we can better understan them. Yes, they are not our toys. The trainers have strong bonds with these animals. Trainers have a connection with the whales that an average person would have with a dog or cat. The shows are stimulation and exercise for these animals. If they dont want to perform, they arent forced to. The show is simply canceled.


----------



## KBF

mylittleprincess said:


> I also agree that Tili thought he was in play mode with Dawn. This was truly a tragic accident!!! As for the man that was a dumba** that went into Sea World AFTER closing. Sorry, that is his own fault & there is there evidence that Tili killed this man? The pic below is proof that there is indeed LOVE between the trainer & the whale. They LOVE their jobs & these whales form a bond with their trainers as any of our own household pets form with us.
> 
> FYI Good Morning America is showing a video right now & she was in a slideout that was 4 in deep. Former trainer said Dawn may have broken the protocal.
> 
> 
> I am not sure if this is Dawn in photo?



Yes it is. Great Photo.


----------



## Metro West

You know...I was watching the local news last night and they were showing clips of Dawn and the whales from past shows and training sessions...which was sad enough but...when they showed a whale...not sure if it was Tili or not alone in a tank just floating...that's when it really hit me. The whale looked really sad and I had to wonder what the whale was thinking...you know? That just makes it sadder if the whale was wondering where his/her friend was. Seeing that whale and wondering those things just broke my heart. That kind of summed up this tragedy for me. It's just so sad for everyone and everything involved.


----------



## MellieluvsDisney

HeatherPage said:


> I think the people on here with their PETA leaning tendencies and own agendas are being very disrespectful to Dawn's memory, especially in light of the fact that a family member of hers has now posted on here.
> 
> It's fine if you have the views and opinions you have, but this thread is not the place.  If you feel that strongly about it, start your own website, post a video on YouTube, make a page on Facebook, but to interject your hostile feelings and beliefs on this thread towards Dawn, Tilly or Seaworld (with the latter two totally intertwined with Dawn) which is essentially a rest in peace or in memorium thread, is totally disrespectful!
> 
> I'm not a person who values animal lives over human beings, but I do also love animals and know that human beings are responsible for a lot of their suffering in this world, however - this is not one of those times.  Tilly and all the other animals at Sea World are loved and taken care of and you could see that just from the few videos or pictures I've seen of Dawn and the other trainers that work there.  Their faces are literally lit up with love and joy almost to the point where you couldn't imagine their smiles getting any bigger.
> 
> I feel so very sorry for Dawn and her family and friends but I also feel sorry for Tilly because I'm sure these creatures have feelings of their own and I bet one day he'll realize she isn't around anymore...



*So well said!* 

I posted something similar on the Orlando Sentienel Website. I love animals. But, I also believe that Sea World takes really good care of their orcas. We need to acknowledge that most of these orcas were born in captivity and are used to being fed by humans everyday. They also get the proper care and love they need. So, releasing them into the wild would be a huge mistake.

I went to Sea World for the first time in September 2009 (I'm from Canada). And when I saw Believe, I had tears in my eyes because I'd never seen such an amazing show. 

My heart goes out to her husband and her family.


----------



## inkkognito

I have mixed feelings about animals in captivity but I have no doubt that SeaWorld takes excellent care of their animals and that the trainers truly love them. You can see it on Dawn's face in every photo and video. It annoys me that the media here has been making all sorts of false claims on Tillikum's treatment. You can see how much Dawn loved him, and I fully believe that one of the trainers would blow the whistle if any abusive practices were going on. Is it wrong to keep them in what is for them a very confined area vs. being in the wild? Probably. But does SeaWorld do everything it can to keep them happy, healthy and mentally stimulated? Definitely. And remember, a lot of the admission $$ goes to their animal rescue programs. They have rescued over 1000 animals already this year due to the unseasonable cold. Nothing in life is fully black or white. You have to look at the shades of gray. And no matter what you believe, this was a horrible, one-in-a-million freak accident that is truly tragic and cost the world a dedicated trainer and animal lover.


----------



## Metro West

kellyw8863 said:


> I have never been to Sea World, but the one thing that gets me everytime I read a story about this or watch a newscast is the absolute joy on Dawn's face as she interacts with these animals.  This whole thing is just incredibly sad and tragic.  My heart goes out to those who knew her.


 I can't help but remember what Dawn's sister was stated as saying...Dawn died doing what she loved and she loved all the whales as if they were her own children.


----------



## Cat0727

inkkognito said:


> I have mixed feelings about animals in captivity but I have no doubt that SeaWorld takes excellent care of their animals and that the trainers truly love them. You can see it on Dawn's face in every photo and video. It annoys me that the media here has been making all sorts of false claims on Tillikum's treatment. You can see how much Dawn loved him, and I fully believe that one of the trainers would blow the whistle if any abusive practices were going on. Is it wrong to keep them in what is for them a very confined area vs. being in the wild? Probably. But does SeaWorld do everything it can to keep them happy, healthy and mentally stimulated? Definitely. And remember, a lot of the admission $$ goes to their animal rescue programs. They have rescued over 1000 animals already this year due to the unseasonable cold. Nothing in life is fully black or white. You have to look at the shades of gray. And no matter what you believe, this was a horrible, one-in-a-million freak accident that is truly tragic and cost the world a dedicated trainer and animal lover.



Right, by making the orcas perform 4-5 shows a day & keeping them in small tanks really shows Seaworld's excellent care.  I guess you don't realize where these animals came from in the first place?


----------



## mylittleprincess

Metro West said:


> You know...I was watching the local news last night and they were showing clips of Dawn and the whales from past shows and training sessions...which was sad enough but...when they showed a whale...not sure if it was Tili or not alone in a tank just floating...that's when it really hit me. The whale looked really sad and I had to wonder what the whale was thinking...you know? That just makes it sadder if the whale was wondering where his/her friend was. Seeing that whale and wondering those things just broke my heart. That kind of summed up this tragedy for me. It's just so sad for everyone and everything involved.




I just said this very same thing to my family today that there has been such negative finger pointing toward Tili and that I am sure he is aware Dawn is not around. My heart is aching for this whale as well along with the family of Dawn & her second family of Sea World. When you look at the pics & video there was such a bond between the 2 that was too beautiful to turn it into something else. Such a sad tragedy.


----------



## KBF

Cat0727 said:


> Right, by making the orcas perform 4-5 shows a day & keeping them in small tanks really shows Seaworld's excellent care.  I guess you don't realize where these animals came from in the first place?



Nobody MAKES the whales do anything. If they decide they dont want to perform, the show is canceled. At some points of the year, there are 2 shows a day. Its been that way for the past 2 months. And the shows are mental stimulation and exercise for the whales. These whales were born in captivity. I dont uderstand how many times that has to be mentioned. Seaworld doesnt go out and pluck them from the wild. So Its you that doesnt realize where Seaworlds whales came from in the first place, they came from right there at Seaworld.


----------



## inkkognito

KBF said:


> Nobody MAKES the whales do anything. If they decide they dont want to perform, the show is canceled. At some points of the year, there are 2 shows a day. Its been that way for the past 2 months. And the shows are mental stimulation and exercise for the whales. These whales were born in captivity. I dont uderstand how many times that has to be mentioned. Seaworld doesnt go out and pluck them from the wild. So Its you that doesnt realize where Seaworlds whales came from in the first place, they came from right there at Seaworld.


Exactly! My DH has been to countless SeaWorld shows and laughs about the frequency of the whales acting up. The trainers simply stop the show and explain what is going on. You don't force a 12,000 ocra.

Granted, Tilly did come from the wild but most of the SW animals are captive bred. In a perfect world animals would not be used for our entertainment. But this is most definitely not a perfect world and SW cares for its animals as best as it can. Anyone who believes those animals are overworked in the shows needs to see more of the shows as the truth is readily apparent. They work when they want to and don't when they don't.


----------



## phamton

I am going to request that this thread not become a debate about animals in captivity.  There is a thread running on the Community Board that is more suited to debating. It can be found here: http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2405408  Please keep this thread as a tribute to Dawn or condolences for the family and try to avoid any controversy.  Thanks so much, guys.


----------



## codysmom1990

I just want to say how sorry I am to hear about the trainer, Dawn.  She seemed to really love the whales and love her work.  Most people don't have a job they are that passionate about like it showed with Dawn.   My heart goes out to her family.  Also I feel sorry for Tilly.  I believe it was an accident.  From what they described he was playing with her, very roughly, but he is a very huge animal.  I think they must of had a good relationship, she was working with him for a very long time.  Only a select few got to be by Tilly.  He would do tricks for her and she got to pet him and stuff.  If they didn't have some kind of bond, neither one of them would of been able to be together at all.  But anyway, what's going to happen when he finally realizes that Dawn his trainer is not there?  They have feelings too.  Will he get really aggressive towards other people now that his trainer is not there?  I really wonder if he will  respond to others.  I would think he needs time to adjust.  I hope they don't push him to try and do shows or whatever.  I just hope this never happens again to anyone.  I don't think we will truly ever know what happened, I hope they DESTROY any video tapes showing the attack!!!  Obviously Dawn felt very trusting of Tilly to be that close to him, that's why I think it was just a freak accident.


----------



## jenelope

Thank you, Phamtom. It's been hard enough losing Dawn, but seeing people use her death as a soapbox to further a cause is very difficult. I know the lack of privacy is affecting the family negatively, and I believe a large part of the media interest is rooted in that debate.

Thanks to all of the DISers for posting such lovely memories and photos.


----------



## livndisney

jenelope said:


> Thank you, Phamtom. It's been hard enough losing Dawn, but seeing people use her death as a soapbox to further a cause is very difficult. I know the lack of privacy is affecting the family negatively, and I believe a large part of the media interest is rooted in that debate.
> 
> Thanks to all of the DISers for posting such lovely memories and photos.



The media and the ignorance is so sad. People REALLY need to think before they speak/post.


Just wanted to say once again . Please know Dawn's Sea World family is thinking of her. We are so sorry for your loss. Sea World truly lost a great gift.


----------



## SandrA9810

It's so gross to hear on the news about how "a contract with the trainer could prevent a lawsuit"... 

The trainers themselves have said over and over again how dangerous this job can be. They're all 110% aware of the risks. But it is their life, and they love what they're doing. It would be really sick to see some sort of lawsuit happen out of all this. 

It really sucks what happened at Disney, and I know that family won a lawsuit, but there was negligents on a lot of people's part to cause that. You can't just say "Bad Tili, you can't do that" and fire him.
This family seems very proud of the life she choose. Although I do think it would be appropriate to provide some help to the family with the funeral and all.


----------



## KBF

SandrA9810 said:


> It's so gross to hear on the news about how "a contract with the trainer could prevent a lawsuit"...
> 
> The trainers themselves have said over and over again how dangerous this job can be. They're all 110% aware of the risks. But it is their life, and they love what they're doing. It would be really sick to see some sort of lawsuit happen out of all this.
> 
> It really sucks what happened at Disney, and I know that family won a lawsuit, but there was negligents on a lot of people's part to cause that. You can't just say "Bad Tili, you can't do that" and fire him.
> This family seems very proud of the life she choose. Although I do think it would be appropriate to provide some help to the family with the funeral and all.



The trainers whom I have met, love these whales like their kids. Dawn was no exception. She loved working with these whales and so do the other trainers. I agree, they know exactly what their getting themselves into.


----------



## BLTLDZ

Metro West said:


> You know...I was watching the local news last night and they were showing clips of Dawn and the whales from past shows and training sessions...which was sad enough but...when they showed a whale...not sure if it was Tili or not alone in a tank just floating...that's when it really hit me. The whale looked really sad and I had to wonder what the whale was thinking...you know? That just makes it sadder if the whale was wondering where his/her friend was. Seeing that whale and wondering those things just broke my heart. That kind of summed up this tragedy for me. It's just so sad for everyone and everything involved.




You are obviously a very compassionate & empathetic individual
I too, got teary eyed over it......It is just so heart breaking.....For all involved .


----------



## MouseLovinMom

Jenelope--Jack Hanna did an interview with a Central Ohio TV station.  It was a great interview, he spoke as a true animal advocate and said many nice things about Dawn and Sea World.  A very positive conversation.  If you would like the link, feel free to PM me.


----------



## mouselovenfamily

Not sure if this is Dawn but it looks like it could be her. The trainers really seem to enjoy what they do and I believe this was truly an accident. So may of us have people in our lives die unexpectedly and we just have to get comfort knowing they were happy in the lives they lived. The trainer with this whale, in this moment, seemed to be enjoying what they are doing...


----------



## Cdn Gal

Two summers ago my DH and I (more my DH though) helped save a whale out on Haida Gwaii BC Canada, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iF1I7hJ2rBM&feature=PlayList&p=3472F2395CE26BBD&index=0&playnext=1

After they rescued the baby humpback (and it wouldn't leave the beach without the men singing a native Haida song) it turned around and and came back in towards shore as a way of saying 'thanks' and then headed back out towards it's mother.  These animals are extremely intelligent, and after that experience I understand why the trainers want to work with whales.  There is a connection between people and whales.   She clearly loved what she was doing.  My condolences to the trainers family.  Our thoughts and prayers are with you.


----------



## HeatherPage

Again, please take your agenda to the Community board, Facebook or some other APPROPRIATE forum...this may be the time, but it's not the place.

P.S. If you want someone to take your opinion into consideration, you really need to be more concise and too the point.


----------



## mylittleprincess

HeatherPage said:


> Again, please take your agenda to the Community board, Facebook or some other APPROPRIATE forum...this may be the time, but it's not the place.




I was just getting ready to say the same thing!


----------



## Luvchefmic

phamton said:


> I am going to request that this thread not become a debate about animals in captivity.  There is a thread running on the Community Board that is more suited to debating. It can be found here: http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2405408  Please keep this thread as a tribute to Dawn or condolences for the family and try to avoid any controversy.  Thanks so much, guys.



 Having read so much about Dawn and her deep love for animals, her Christian beliefs, and her achieving her life long goal I believe that we should all be respectful and honor her life. Knee jerk reactions & armchair quarterbacking is not needed here...just thoughts and prayers for her & her family,

Respectfully, The Thompson Family


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## Metro West

HeatherPage said:


> Again, please take your agenda to the Community board, Facebook or some other APPROPRIATE forum...this may be the time, but it's not the place.
> 
> P.S. If you want someone to take your opinion into consideration, you really need to be more concise and too the point.


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## mylittleprincess

Very nice video!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeEz-jg272w


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## thelittlemermaid83

mylittleprincess said:


> Very nice video!!
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeEz-jg272w



Thanks for sharing, great video.


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## yaytezIOA

Pictures and video plus a review of the first show since the attack.


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## inkkognito

I know they have to keep the trainers out of the water until they review their procedures, but I'd be willing to lay money that not one of those trainers would be afraid to return to the water with those orcas right this minute. This was not a vicious attack. It was a whale mistaking her ponytail for something to eat (and if you look at the long fish they feed 'em in some of the videos and look at the long, wet ponytail, it's not such a stretch...especially since I'll bet the trainers start smelling fishy after a few hours of work). Those trainers love the whales and I'm sure they have developed no fear of them as a result of this horrible tragedy...just perhaps a renewed respect for what they are capable of and how a freak accident can happen any time even with creatures that they know and trust.


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## Tillikumtrainer

Im all for freedom of speech, 

but this is getting ridiculous. Im Glad Seaworld decided to leave Tillikum alone and not put him down or release him. they are changing things to benefit the safety of their trainers. As it was an accident and protcol was broken which is why their reviewing protocol. I dont agree how the media Blew this up and made this guy into something worse than he is. Dawn passed doing what she loved. Can we all put this to rest already.

 I believe you should watch this video of SeaWorld's First show after the Incident. its something let me tell you. it takes courage to continue on after this tragedy. But they did it and i applaud them.

here is the link: the show officially starts 3 min in but i encourage you to watch it all: http://www.wftv.com/video/22693306/index.html


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## ajaysmom825

Tillikumtrainer said:


> Im all for freedom of speech,
> 
> but this is getting ridiculous. Im Glad Seaworld decided to leave Tillikum alone and not put him down or release him. they are changing things to benefit the safety of their trainers. As it was an accident and protcol was broken which is why their reviewing protocol. I dont agree how the media Blew this up and made this guy into something worse than he is. Dawn passed doing what she loved. Can we all put this to rest already.
> 
> I believe you should watch this video of SeaWorld's First show after the Incident. its something let me tell you. it takes courage to continue on after this tragedy. But they did it and i applaud them.
> 
> here is the link: the show officially starts 3 min in but i encourage you to watch it all: http://www.wftv.com/video/22693306/index.html



Thank you for sharing this.


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## livndisney

Tillikumtrainer said:


> Im all for freedom of speech,
> 
> but this is getting ridiculous. Im Glad Seaworld decided to leave Tillikum alone and not put him down or release him. they are changing things to benefit the safety of their trainers. As it was an accident and protcol was broken which is why their reviewing protocol. I dont agree how the media Blew this up and made this guy into something worse than he is. Dawn passed doing what she loved. Can we all put this to rest already.
> 
> I believe you should watch this video of SeaWorld's First show after the Incident. its something let me tell you. it takes courage to continue on after this tragedy. But they did it and i applaud them.
> 
> here is the link: the show officially starts 3 min in but i encourage you to watch it all: http://www.wftv.com/video/22693306/index.html



I am also glad Tillikum will be left as is. It was an accident. The media made this out to be much bigger that it needed to be. The local media has just been awful. I feel for Dawn's family and co workers that have to listen to this junk and speculation. I think Dawn should be remembered for the fine work that she did and leave it at that.

We will learn from this accident. There will be new protocols and guides.  That is as it should be.

I have not watched the new show yet. But I have to agree, it takes a lot of courage to pick up and go on when you have lost one of your own.


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## inkkognito

Good for SeaWorld for not bowing to pressure as there is truly no reason to put Tillikum down and he would never survive in the wild. The media made him out to be a vicious killer when one incident involved three whales and he did not kill the person in the other...the guy climbed into the whale tank and died of hypothermia, and Tillikum just happened to be the whale in that tank. I truly do not believe he meant to harm Dawn, and I believe her family when they say they would want no harm to come to him. She make have broken protocol, but you can clearly see in the video that she loved and trusted him and 99 times out of 100 no harm would have come to her. You can't predict things like how a ponytail in the wrong spot might trigger a wild animal's instinct. It was a horrible tragedy and my heart goes out to her family as well as to all of her co-workers at SeaWorld. I hope guests are being sensitive and not asking rude and hurtful questions.


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## FloraFauna

Tillikumtrainer said:


> Im all for freedom of speech,
> 
> but this is getting ridiculous. Im Glad Seaworld decided to leave Tillikum alone and not put him down or release him. they are changing things to benefit the safety of their trainers. As it was an accident and protcol was broken which is why their reviewing protocol. I dont agree how the media Blew this up and made this guy into something worse than he is. Dawn passed doing what she loved. Can we all put this to rest already.
> 
> I believe you should watch this video of SeaWorld's First show after the Incident. its something let me tell you. it takes courage to continue on after this tragedy. But they did it and i applaud them.
> 
> here is the link: the show officially starts 3 min in but i encourage you to watch it all: http://www.wftv.com/video/22693306/index.html



Thank Tillikum Trainer.  Very touching.


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## chrisn

Just wanted to add my thoughts and prayers to Dawn's family.  We were at SW 3 days before this happened and followed it everyday on the news.  It was easy to see the love she had for these mammals.  I doubt she ever worked a day in her life while working as a trainer as they were like her babies.  I hope her family is comforted by happy memories of Dawn and her joy in realizing her dream and doing what she loved.


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## thelittlemermaid83

Today was Dawn's funeral


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## surfergirl602

Tillikumtrainer said:


> Im all for freedom of speech,
> 
> but this is getting ridiculous. Im Glad Seaworld decided to leave Tillikum alone and not put him down or release him. they are changing things to benefit the safety of their trainers. As it was an accident and protcol was broken which is why their reviewing protocol. I dont agree how the media Blew this up and made this guy into something worse than he is. Dawn passed doing what she loved. Can we all put this to rest already.
> 
> I believe you should watch this video of SeaWorld's First show after the Incident. its something let me tell you. it takes courage to continue on after this tragedy. But they did it and i applaud them.
> 
> here is the link: the show officially starts 3 min in but i encourage you to watch it all: http://www.wftv.com/video/22693306/index.html



Great video.  I loved the one fish, no... two fish... no... big fish!  Very touching, and it was nice to see the trainers just going with it.  it makes you wonder.... do the whales "know"?  They must.  They are such intelligent creatures.


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## xxxxvickyxxxx

Such a tragedy my thoughts are with Dawns family at this terrible time.

Im so glad nothing bad will happen to Tilli he couldnt understand. The trainers are aware of the dangers of their job and Im sure she wouldn't have changed anything about her life with the animals and job she loved.


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## mylittleprincess

I came across this on youtube & the song is perfect! Too bad others cannot see it the same way Dawn did!! She was magnificent and my heart is with all who suffered this great loss including Tili & the other whales. We all are fortunate enough to have 1 family but she had 3!! Her own family, her Sea World family & the Whale family!! 


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JF37-IORTw&feature=related


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## Disneyafternoonfan

My prays are to Dawns family and Tilly,


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## donaldduck352

inkkognito said:


> Good for SeaWorld for not bowing to pressure as there is truly no reason to put Tillikum down and he would never survive in the wild. The media made him out to be a vicious killer when one incident involved three whales and he did not kill the person in the other...the guy climbed into the whale tank and died of hypothermia, and Tillikum just happened to be the whale in that tank. I truly do not believe he meant to harm Dawn, and I believe her family when they say they would want no harm to come to him. She make have broken protocol, but you can clearly see in the video that she loved and trusted him and 99 times out of 100 no harm would have come to her. You can't predict things like how a ponytail in the wrong spot might trigger a wild animal's instinct. It was a horrible tragedy and my heart goes out to her family as well as to all of her co-workers at SeaWorld. I hope guests are being sensitive and not asking rude and hurtful questions.



*Well put,thats my feelings also.

That video put A tear in my eye.Her family,coworkers,managment and anyone thats ever seen her perform with her love and compassion for whales,well should as well.Just typing this after seeing the video has got me chocked up now.
Godspeed Dawn,you will never be forgot.*


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## inkkognito

Even sadder news today...the reason she had long hair was that she was growing it out to donate it to Locks of Love for children with cancer and other illnesses that make them go bald. Just more evidence of the kind of loving and generous person Dawn was.


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