# When do you realistically think ABD will start operating again?



## TravelJunkieHubby

I realize no one can say for certain, and perhaps this question is reflecting boredom since our summer plans were cancelled.  

I see ABD still has adventures scheduled in September, and they likely want to hold on to deposits as long as possible... but it seems pretty unrealistic that these will happen.  Curious if y'all think there will be adventures that actually run over the holidays in December?  Spring?  Next summer? 2022?

It's also one thing to operate an adventure and another to have enough people willing to travel overseas.  I know some countries are opening but requiring a negative COVID test before you are allowed in.  It would seem risky to offer an adventure and then have half the group not be able to go if one or two people in their party tested positive.  Do you think ABD would run with smaller groups then we're used to seeing in the past?


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## sayhello

TravelJunkieHubby said:


> I realize no one can say for certain, and perhaps this question is reflecting boredom since our summer plans were cancelled.
> 
> I see ABD still has adventures scheduled in September, and they likely want to hold on to deposits as long as possible... but it seems pretty unrealistic that these will happen.  Curious if y'all think there will be adventures that actually run over the holidays in December?  Spring?  Next summer? 2022?


Personally?  I don't think it's likely trips will run before sometime in early 2021.  If then.  Some of the domestic trips *may* go, but what with Americans still barred from the EU, and our numbers still skyrocketing, I just can't see them being able to run most of their trips.  Heaven knows I could be wrong, but that's my opinion.


TravelJunkieHubby said:


> It's also one thing to operate an adventure and another to have enough people willing to travel overseas.  I know some countries are opening but requiring a negative COVID test before you are allowed in.  It would seem risky to offer an adventure and then have half the group not be able to go if one or two people in their party tested positive.  Do you think ABD would run with smaller groups then we're used to seeing in the past?


It's certainly possible.  If they feel confident they can run a trip safely, without the risk of the destination not being available, then I imagine it might be worth running it with fewer people just to get things moving again.  Fewer people make it easier to Social Distance.  

Sayhello


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## atlmgm

I think ABD will have to start off with significantly smaller groups.   These are not inexpensive trips and expectations are high.   I really dont think they will have any international trips until (at least) this time next year.   For domestic trips, maybe next spring.   The experts are saying fall and winter will be bad as flu and COVID circulate.

ABD needs two things - a vaccine and consumer confidence about traveling.   My opinion - I dont see either anytime soon unfortunately.


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## AquaDame

I have no clue, but plan on putting off purchasing airfare for our May trip as long as possible. We also are not planning anything else international for next year.


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## emilymad

We haven't traveled with ABD but have considered it for the past few years.  What do you think is the driving factor?  Ability to access the destinations or not being able to social distance in a group travel setting?  We have ABD in the back of our minds for a last minute booking whenever travel does start again.  It is a lot easier to do a last minute trip if someone else is doing the planning.


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## aggiedog

I honestly think a lot is going to depend on if other countries even let us in.  I heard an NPR article that said unofficially, SE Asia was looking at a year before Americans were welcome.  

It will be a long time before the US gets Covid rates anywhere near Europe.  If that is the requirement, it may be 6-9 months easily.  If the EU gets desperate for our tour dollars, they may just require a Covid test upon arrival like Iceland is doing.  That is inherently risky for the traveler because if you do test positive, you are stuck in quarantine in country until they decide you're safe to fly home.  That would be a serious damper on a family trip.


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## vakamalua

I don't think any group travel can safely socially distance its participants right now (not to mention trips that require air travel) even if the destinations allowed it from the US.   Who would want to put their families at such risk with COVID-19 so active in US communities and abroad


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## TravelJunkieHubby

Thanks for the responses - especially got a kick out of AquaDame's tagline.

I think 2022 will be the earliest we consider international travel.  At this point guess we should feel thankful for the trips we were able to do previously.


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## Mathmagicland

I’m still hopeful for some travel in 2021 - I need some travel to look forward to and be planning this year in the absence of this year’s cancellations.  My earliest next trip is end of May, but with the current relaxed AbD cancel policy I’ve found now myself thinking of also booking another one of the same adventure on a later in the year departure in case May ends up not going.  I don’t even like starting to think that may be necessary though...It is kind of scary (and a bit depressing) to think things may not be better by then.   Guess I have a month to decide....


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## aggiedog

I just read a Politico article about, how given the lack of coordinated response to the rising rates of Covid now, all the computer modelers are now looking at around 200,000 deaths by November.  Without anything really changing on the public health management level of the disease, I'm going to revise my estimate to at least a year before international travel happens.  ABD may be able to run US trips in small groups sooner depending on if we have some sort of coordinated public health plan in place by then.


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## bearsgirl

What do you think the likelihood of early October ABD Seine cruise happening this year? Also, if ABD cancels a trip, they will refund the trip and the airfare (even if you didn't purchase through them?).


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## TravelJunkieHubby

They won’t refund airfare - they’ll direct you to the airline of wherever you bought i


bearsgirl said:


> What do you think the likelihood of early October ABD Seine cruise happening this year? Also, if ABD cancels a trip, they will refund the trip and the airfare (even if you didn't purchase through them?).
> [/QUOTE





bearsgirl said:


> What do you think the likelihood of early October ABD Seine cruise happening this year? Also, if ABD cancels a trip, they will refund the trip and the airfare (even if you didn't purchase through them?).


I don’t think they’ll refund the airfare - they’ll just direct you to the airline or wherever you bought the ticket.

For us, ABD refunded our Japan trip including prenights and insurance policy within a few days after we called them.  The only other purchase we made were the airline tickets through JAL and we were able to cancel online - hard to believe how easy it was.


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## bearsgirl

TravelJunkieHubby said:


> They won’t refund airfare - they’ll direct you to the airline of wherever you bought i
> 
> 
> I don’t think they’ll refund the airfare - they’ll just direct you to the airline or wherever you bought the ticket.
> 
> For us, ABD refunded our Japan trip including prenights and insurance policy within a few days after we called them.  The only other purchase we made were the airline tickets through JAL and we were able to cancel online - hard to believe how easy it was.


I am trying to decide if I should pay more money toward our October 8 date on the Seine. Is ABD doing any river cruises yet? I can't imagine the trip going forward since Americans aren't even allowed in Europe right now. Unless a lot of the passengers on the ABD river cruises are from Europe, not United States.


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## SingingMom

Just made our final payment for Oct ABD to Italy.  I'm really hoping it is cancelled.  I just don't think everything will be opened & operating, and I don't think I can wear a mask with all that walking.  We'll probably just take the refund.  I'm not sure I'm ready to rebook any time soon .


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## aggiedog

I think October is 50/50 at best, probably much less.  We will have to have many less cases than we do now and we are currently still going up.  A peak would still last 3-4 weeks, then a slow decrease.  That will take months even if we locked the country down now, which is never going to happen.  Even just contact tracing, testing, and forced quarantine for infected individuals would take months, and that's not going to happen either.


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## Cousin Orville

bearsgirl said:


> I am trying to decide if I should pay more money toward our October 8 date on the Seine. Is ABD doing any river cruises yet? I can't imagine the trip going forward since Americans aren't even allowed in Europe right now. Unless a lot of the passengers on the ABD river cruises are from Europe, not United States.



I wouldn't pay anymore at least prior to the pay in full date.  We had a Sep Rhone cruise.  Happened to be paid in full, but I only had paid for 1 of 2 airline tickets.  I won't buy they other ticket unless the trip miraculously goes as planned.  The difficult choice is whether you should pay in full at the deadline.  If you still want to take the trip, I'd pay.  If you didn't feel comfortable going, ask your travel agent or ABD to see if you can move your $ to a placeholder.  Probably a moot point as I think the trip will eventually be cancelled.

And for my guess as to when ABD's will start up again...  I don't think we'll see ABD's start back up while social distancing is recommended.  That probably puts us into early 2021 depending on vaccine progress and herd immunity.  I have 3 ABD's scheduled - Rhone, Backstage Magic, and SE Asia.  I give the BSM a 25% chance.  The others I give next to a 0% chance.


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## bearsgirl

Cousin Orville said:


> I wouldn't pay anymore at least prior to the pay in full date.  We had a Sep Rhone cruise.  Happened to be paid in full, but I only had paid for 1 of 2 airline tickets.  I won't buy they other ticket unless the trip miraculously goes as planned.  The difficult choice is whether you should pay in full at the deadline.  If you still want to take the trip, I'd pay.  If you didn't feel comfortable going, ask your travel agent or ABD to see if you can move your $ to a placeholder.  Probably a moot point as I think the trip will eventually be cancelled.
> 
> And for my guess as to when ABD's will start up again...  I don't think we'll see ABD's start back up while social distancing is recommended.  That probably puts us into early 2021 depending on vaccine progress and herd immunity.  I have 3 ABD's scheduled - Rhone, Backstage Magic, and SE Asia.  I give the BSM a 25% chance.  The others I give next to a 0% chance.


Hey Dr. M —The PIF date is moments away and I don’t want a placeholder just because I am ticked at the way ABD is handling this—not the best reason, I know. I feel strongly enough that the trip isn’t going to go that I am willing to PIF just to have the ability to get full refund. We have both Oct 6 Paris Escape and Oct 8 Seine and I noticed they did NOT cancel the September 15 Paris Escape yet but did cancel all other trips through September 15. Obviously it is safer to change it to a placeholder, but DH is 75 and I don’t see us traveling until vaccine is available.  We did buy the vacation protection with both Adventures but “fear of travel” is not a covered reason to cancel. 
Would you gamble on PIF or go Placeholders?


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## atlmgm

bearsgirl said:


> Hey Dr. M —The PIF date is moments away and I don’t want a placeholder just because I am ticked at the way ABD is handling this—not the best reason, I know. I feel strongly enough that the trip isn’t going to go that I am willing to PIF just to have the ability to get full refund. We have both Oct 6 Paris Escape and Oct 8 Seine and I noticed they did NOT cancel the September 15 Paris Escape yet but did cancel all other trips through September 15. Obviously it is safer to change it to a placeholder, but DH is 75 and I don’t see us traveling until vaccine is available.  We did buy the vacation protection with both Adventures but “fear of travel” is not a covered reason to cancel.
> Would you gamble on PIF or go Placeholders?


I am in a similar situation to you but with a Backstage Magic trip in late Oct.  I am going to play chicken with ABD.  I do not like they way they are treating us with either PIF (and gamble) or move monies to a future date. Many of us simply cannot move or commit to future travel for a variety of reasons (COVID and non-COVID).  

My opinion is that ABD knows it will not be doing any trips this calendar year and is making us twist in the wind with the PIF or placeholder options.  From a customer service view ABD should have provided a no questions asked refund policy due to COVID.   I would have gladly rebooked with ABD after there is a vaccine or therapeutics and my scheduled allowed me to travel.   

My other concern with ABD is if they rush these back and the ABD is subpar, their reputation will take a huge hit considering the cost of each ABD.


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## bearsgirl

atlmgm said:


> I am in a similar situation to you but with a Backstage Magic trip in late Oct.  I am going to play chicken with ABD.  I do not like they way they are treating us with either PIF (and gamble) or move monies to a future date. Many of us simply cannot move or commit to future travel for a variety of reasons (COVID and non-COVID).
> 
> My opinion is that ABD knows it will not be doing any trips this calendar year and is making us twist in the wind with the PIF or placeholder options.  From a customer service view ABD should have provided a no questions asked refund policy due to COVID.   I would have gladly rebooked with ABD after there is a vaccine or therapeutics and my scheduled allowed me to travel.
> 
> My other concern with ABD is if they rush these back and the ABD is subpar, their reputation will take a huge hit considering the cost of each ABD.


Absolutely agree with you. Not a good look for ABD and I am trying not to take it out on the Vacationistas because they are only doing what they are told from above. This is not Good Show, Disney!  Previously, I was a big cheerleader for ABD but this is leaving me with a bad taste in my mouth. Do the right thing, ABD!


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## sayhello

bearsgirl said:


> Hey Dr. M —The PIF date is moments away and I don’t want a placeholder just because I am ticked at the way ABD is handling this—not the best reason, I know. I feel strongly enough that the trip isn’t going to go that I am willing to PIF just to have the ability to get full refund. We have both Oct 6 Paris Escape and Oct 8 Seine and I noticed they did NOT cancel the September 15 Paris Escape yet but did cancel all other trips through September 15. Obviously it is safer to change it to a placeholder, but DH is 75 and I don’t see us traveling until vaccine is available.  We did buy the vacation protection with both Adventures but “fear of travel” is not a covered reason to cancel.
> Would you gamble on PIF or go Placeholders?


I don't know if this will affect your decision, but the ABD vacation protection plan *does* include 75% "Cancel for any Reason" coverage provided by ABD, not the insurance company.  If the insurance company turns down your claim (which they probably would for "fear of travel") ABD will give you a voucher for 75% of your non-refundable trip costs booked through them.



> New! Cancel For Any Reason Travel Credit Feature
> _Provided by Adventures by Disney (non-insurance services)
> 
> Adventures by Disney_ has enhanced the Vacation Protection Plan with the addition of our Cancel For Any Reason Travel Credit Feature.  Available at any time up until departure, if you need to cancel for a reason not covered under the terms of the Vacation Protection Plan, _Adventures by Disney_ will provide a travel credit equal to 75% of the pre-paid non-refundable cancellation fees so that you may travel at a later date.
> 
> _The following Travel Credit Feature is provided by Adventures by Disney and is not an insurance benefit.
> 
> Cancel For “Any Reason” Travel Credits - Equal to 75% of the Pre-Paid Non-Refundable Cancellation Fees
> 
> In the event that  you choose to cancel for a non-insured reason at any time up until departure, and you have purchased the Adventures by Disney Vacation Protection Plan, you will receive an Adventures by Disney travel credit equal to 75% of the pre-paid non-refundable cancellation fees imposed for your use toward a future trip.
> 
> This program enhancement is offered by Adventures by Disney as a special service to our valued guests. Certain restrictions on the use of these travel credits may apply. Credits are valid for one year from issue date, are not transferrable, and have no cash value. To be eligible for credits, notification of cancellation must be given to Adventures by Disney prior to the tour’s departure. Credits are issued in the event your cancellation claim is denied. To file a cancellation claim please visit www.travelclaim.com or call Aon Affinity at 1-800-543-0865.  _



Sayhello


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## Cousin Orville

bearsgirl said:


> Hey Dr. M —The PIF date is moments away and I don’t want a placeholder just because I am ticked at the way ABD is handling this—not the best reason, I know. I feel strongly enough that the trip isn’t going to go that I am willing to PIF just to have the ability to get full refund. We have both Oct 6 Paris Escape and Oct 8 Seine and I noticed they did NOT cancel the September 15 Paris Escape yet but did cancel all other trips through September 15. Obviously it is safer to change it to a placeholder, but DH is 75 and I don’t see us traveling until vaccine is available.  We did buy the vacation protection with both Adventures but “fear of travel” is not a covered reason to cancel.
> Would you gamble on PIF or go Placeholders?



Personally, I’d gamble.


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## Rapunzellover

Cousin Orville said:


> I don't think we'll see ABD's start back up while social distancing is recommended.  That probably puts us into early 2021 depending on vaccine progress and herd immunity.  I have 3 ABD's scheduled - Rhone, Backstage Magic, and SE Asia.  I give the BSM a 25% chance.  The others I give next to a 0% chance.



When are these ABDs scheduled- 2021?  Or 2020? As a CA resident, I don't see DL opening this year, tbh.  Gov. Newsom is not happy with cases rising, and talk is we're headed for another serious lockdown.  I'm guessing thanks to July 4th, we're gonna have a massive spike come on in the next week, which I think will trigger stricter measures,  as hospitals, especially in my area in the Central Valley, are getting close to capacity.   This will push back any DL reopening.  

I also believe FL has been completely irresponsible opening Disney World as cases surge, and that their reopening is gonna be a disaster.  I expect hundreds sick, if not more.  I don't think the DisneyWorld reopening is gonna last more than a month.  I expect in a couple weeks, massive amounts of cases will be traced to it, and it will be forced to reshut. 

So if your BM ABD is this year, I'd say it's more like 5-10% chance.  And the international trips are almost definitely no go this year.  I don't see anyone letting us in this year.  Early 2021 is perhaps possible.   However,  I'm thinking it might be till mid 2021 or even 2022 till international travel is possible.


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## CaliKris

We took the gamble and paid in full for our Sept. 15th Egypt ABD on June 17th.  We received notice on June 23rd that our trip was cancelled.  We requested a full refund and it was posted to our credit card by June 26th.  ABD only had our money for 9 days.  It was a risk, but ended up being worth it in the end.


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## lovetotravel

I'm going to have to go with late 2021 or early 2022! I really hope it's sooner than that such as early 2021. I don't know if ABD can survive 2 years of no trips and business.


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## OfCourseTheresAlwaysMyWay

Even if a vaccine is magically developed by early 2021, that doesn’t mean it will be widely available across the US or across the world right away. It will take time to rebuild international travel from so many logistical standpoints. How many vendors will even be left by the time ABD can start up again?

Right now I think it’s naive to expect to leave the country any time before 2022. But I would love to be proven wrong...


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## Cousin Orville

Rapunzellover said:


> When are these ABDs scheduled- 2021?  Or 2020? As a CA resident, I don't see DL opening this year, tbh.  Gov. Newsom is not happy with cases rising, and talk is we're headed for another serious lockdown.  I'm guessing thanks to July 4th, we're gonna have a massive spike come on in the next week, which I think will trigger stricter measures,  as hospitals, especially in my area in the Central Valley, are getting close to capacity.   This will push back any DL reopening.
> 
> I also believe FL has been completely irresponsible opening Disney World as cases surge, and that their reopening is gonna be a disaster.  I expect hundreds sick, if not more.  I don't think the DisneyWorld reopening is gonna last more than a month.  I expect in a couple weeks, massive amounts of cases will be traced to it, and it will be forced to reshut.
> 
> So if your BM ABD is this year, I'd say it's more like 5-10% chance.  And the international trips are almost definitely no go this year.  I don't see anyone letting us in this year.  Early 2021 is perhaps possible.   However,  I'm thinking it might be till mid 2021 or even 2022 till international travel is possible.



Our trips are 2020.  I expect them all to be cancelled.  Ironically 2020 was a heavy travel year for us.  We’re just taking them one trip and cancellation at a time.  Just had a flight to the Maldives get cancelled for August.  I figured I’d have to cancel that one myself, but Emirates sent an email saying that all the flights had been cancelled.  Not sure if it’s flights to and from the US that triggered the cancellation.  Anyway, next up is the Rhône.  I expect that to be cancelled in the next 2-4 wks.  Then comes BSM.... 

I’m optimistic vaccine research and early production should get us in a good position by Spring 2021.


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## abdgeek

From articles I’ve seen online about what different countries are doing, a lot of them are saying that they don’t plan on allowing international travel until early to mid 2021.  Africa has already said they won’t reopen until Feb. 2021 for international travel.  It seems that countries are using a phased approach to tourism of allowing regional, domestic, then international travel.  Given this, my first international trip isn’t until June 2021.  I also have a domestic trip for December 2021.  My sister has worked in public health and she advised me not to plan on traveling internationally until 2023 or 2022 at the earliest given all the logistics of what needs to happen before it will be safe to do so.  I just don’t want to wait that long to travel internationally again.


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## TravelJunkieHubby

abdgeek said:


> From articles I’ve seen online about what different countries are doing, a lot of them are saying that they don’t plan on allowing international travel until early to mid 2021.  Africa has already said they won’t reopen until Feb. 2021 for international travel.  It seems that countries are using a phased approach to tourism of allowing regional, domestic, then international travel.  Given this, my first international trip isn’t until June 2021.  I also have a domestic trip for December 2021.  My sister has worked in public health and she advised me not to plan on traveling internationally until 2023 or 2022 at the earliest given all the logistics of what needs to happen before it will be safe to do so.  I just don’t want to wait that long to travel internationally again.



I hear ya abdgeek and as much as I’m also sad about the thought of not traveling internationally for the next 2-3 years, I’m trying to imagine what international travel would be like in 2021 if borders are open and I doubt it will be a relaxing experience.

Part, if not most, about why we love ABD is the stress free nature of the way they do travel... unless we could all form one big ABD bubble, I don’t think ABD 2021 would be the stress-free vacation we’ve come to associate with the brand.

I’m guessing they roll out a nature-themed domestic options in 2021 where they have more control of the itinerary, maybe a river cruise down the Columbia River/San Juan islands?  Another crack at the short lived Caribbean ABD?


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## Mathmagicland

I’m still hoping for 2021 and channeling my inner Cinderella- courtesy of Songwriters Mack David, Al Hoffman, Jerry Livingston, & David Pack—


Have faith in your dreams and someday
Your rainbow will come smiling through
No matter how your heart is grieving
If you keep on believing
The dream that you wish will come true


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## OKW Lover

atlmgm said:


> My opinion is that ABD knows it will not be doing any trips this calendar year and is making us twist in the wind with the PIF or placeholder options.


...or perhaps they genuinely don't know if they will be able to do any trips this calendar year and are hoping they can provide guests with a good travel experience.


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## OKW Lover

Our next ABD is scheduled for September 21.  Its a SouthWest Splendors trip and I'm seriously doubting that it will actually happen.  Still, I did go ahead and PIF using my Disney Visa.  If the trip happens, we will go.  If it gets canceled I'll take the refund rather than move the money to a different trip.  Fortunately we are retired and can be flexible with our travel plans.


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## RbdFoxes311

atlmgm said:


> I am in a similar situation to you but with a Backstage Magic trip in late Oct.  I am going to play chicken with ABD.  I do not like they way they are treating us with either PIF (and gamble) or move monies to a future date. Many of us simply cannot move or commit to future travel for a variety of reasons (COVID and non-COVID).



100% agree with all of this. We are booked on a late Oct BSM too. I'm furious that they won't give us any information, or let us cancel for full refund, OR let us book next year at the early booking rate we had originally booked. They won't give any answers about how they are going to social-distance us on a tour bus, not to mention the parks not even being open yet. 

I did notice that for the last few months the itineraries for all BSM dates through April 2021 were taken down - the webpage just said "sorry page not found." They are back now, so I'm leaning on just taking the loss on my deposit to be shut of the whole thing.


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## neurosx1983

RbdFoxes311 said:


> 100% agree with all of this. We are booked on a late Oct BSM too. I'm furious that they won't give us any information, or let us cancel for full refund, OR let us book next year at the early booking rate we had originally booked. They won't give any answers about how they are going to social-distance us on a tour bus, not to mention the parks not even being open yet.
> 
> I did notice that for the last few months the itineraries for all BSM dates through April 2021 were taken down - the webpage just said "sorry page not found." They are back now, so I'm leaning on just taking the loss on my deposit to be shut of the whole thing.



Hang tight. California just announced they’re basically re-locking down. No chance ABD will run a trip there in October.


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## Rapunzellover

neurosx1983 said:


> Hang tight. California just announced they’re basically re-locking down. No chance ABD will run a trip there in October.



CA ressie here, and let me clarify:  it's not basically relocking down.  It's about a 70% turn back.  And that is mostly only for the counties hardest hit. Gyms and hairdressers shut, but outdoor dining and shops allowed.  This could change if things keep progressing this rapidly. 

But LA schools are officially not reopening in the Fall.   It is the most heavily affected area.   I don't see Disneyland opening before schools.  And even if it does, I would eat the money.  It's way too risky and hospitals are filling up.

My take:  I don't see this Oct. ABD going and I'd gamble.


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## DizMagic

We are booked for the Jan Winter in Wyoming and I keep thinking they are going to cancel it.  Our PIF date is Sept, I have been holding on paying as long as I can.


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## Chirple

I’ve been mostly lurking in the forums lately.  As I read through these threads of trip cancellations and timing of ABD communication, I am so sorry many of you are going through this frustration.  I think we’ll eventually come back to ABD but not until at least 2022.


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## Discruisin

We are scheduled for Peru in December.  I desperately hope we can go but everyday that goes by it is looking less and less likely.  Our final payment is due soon.  Think we are going to wait till the day before to make that just in case something happens.    This was going to be our first ABD, my wife and our two daughters.  We have been planning this trip for almost a year.  Seriously bummed it probably wont happen.


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## bavaria

abdgeek said:


> From articles I’ve seen online about what different countries are doing, a lot of them are saying that they don’t plan on allowing international travel until early to mid 2021.  *Africa has already said they won’t reopen until Feb. 2021 for international travel.*  It seems that countries are using a phased approach to tourism of allowing regional, domestic, then international travel.  Given this, my first international trip isn’t until June 2021.  I also have a domestic trip for December 2021.  My sister has worked in public health and she advised me not to plan on traveling internationally until 2023 or 2022 at the earliest given all the logistics of what needs to happen before it will be safe to do so.  I just don’t want to wait that long to travel internationally again.


Africa is an entire diverse continent made up of independent countries. This is simply incorrect information. Several countries have already opened borders and more plan to do so soon.

The situation in much of Africa is dire, and we caused this situation. South Africa is a great example of why lockdowns don't work in certain countries. They had one of the harshest in the world including no cigarettes and no alcohol, and now their cases are rising after they opened. It only benefited the middle and upper classes, whilst the poor became even more poor. Starvation will continue to rise across the continent.

Several countries have opened because they realise this and know that they cannot continue to keep borders closed. NGOs and voluntary organizations had to stop work and in many cases expats lost their jobs and subsequently their personal staff did as well.

In much of the world international travel has resumed, without significant rise in deaths. We need to begin to normalise as the number of non-COVID deaths will surge. While the United States is not yet ready to begin international travel, much of the world can, and has been doing so for some time already.

Edited to add that river cruises, sea cruises, and bus tours have already been operating for awhile now in other countries.


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## RbdFoxes311

Just an update - I was ready to cancel (our late October So Cal ABD), but my mom talked me into moving to a placeholder. We were surprised to find that when she called, they let us move to a new date at the new-booking rate. Unfortunately the lowest rates were sold out until Jan 2022, so we have pushed our trip until then. I do wish they would have let us move to the October 2021 dates when the new booking discounts were available one the last two times we asked.

We booked our trip back in May of 2019, so I hope Disney is making wise investment choices with our deposit that they will have for 32 months before we travel. Despite my grumbling, I'm glad we kicked this decision down the road a fair bit.


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## abdgeek

bavaria said:


> Africa is an entire diverse continent made up of independent countries. This is simply incorrect information. Several countries have already opened borders and more plan to do so soon.
> 
> The situation in much of Africa is dire, and we caused this situation. South Africa is a great example of why lockdowns don't work in certain countries. They had one of the harshest in the world including no cigarettes and no alcohol, and now their cases are rising after they opened. It only benefited the middle and upper classes, whilst the poor became even more poor. Starvation will continue to rise across the continent.
> 
> Several countries have opened because they realise this and know that they cannot continue to keep borders closed. NGOs and voluntary organizations had to stop work and in many cases expats lost their jobs and subsequently their personal staff did as well.
> 
> In much of the world international travel has resumed, without significant rise in deaths. We need to begin to normalise as the number of non-COVID deaths will surge. While the United States is not yet ready to begin international travel, much of the world can, and has been doing so for some time already.
> 
> Edited to add that river cruises, sea cruises, and bus tours have already been operating for awhile now in other countries.



Thank you for reminding me that Africa is a huge continent and that some of its countries are now open for certain people to travel to.  In my earlier post, I should have specifically referred to the South Africa region which is closed to travel.  While decisions are constantly changing regarding when and how to open up, they remain closed to international travel.  While the tourism powers that be want to open up to certain travelers in September, it is still estimated that international flights won’t begin until 2021.  

The South Africa ABD was one I was considering, but will continue to delay given all the uncertainty of when the countries I am interested in visiting are open without a quarantine requirement or requirement of a negative test requirement for US citizens.   Unfortunately, it is still taking at least 5-7 days in my state to get test results back.  While I don’t plan on traveling Internationally until next year, this makes it difficult for me to travel anywhere that requires proof of a negative COVID test within 48-72 hours of flying.  Maybe testing turn around times will be better by next year.


----------



## neurosx1983

Just wanted to share that one of the things I've been doing to keep myself sane during all the craziness in the world today is to listen to old DIS unplugged and Dreams podcasts of ABD trip reports. They're fantastic as I'm sure you guys know... Just finished re-listening to Pete talk about Central Europe!

Not sure when travel will ever be back to normal, and when ABD will re-start, but it sure is therapeutic to listen to these things nowadays. I'm sure most of you would agree


----------



## bavaria

Tanzania is already open for travel. They are trying to capture or retain some of the leisure travel for migration, so have been open for several weeks. Egypt similarly has reopened to try and capture some leisure and business travel revenues. The Seychelles reopened for commercial air travel but closed again until 1st August (but remains open to private aircraft ie general aviation)

The reality is that the world cannot remain closed forever, and the desperate situation in Africa is becoming worse as they face other challenges besides COVID. 

The situation in South Africa also remains fluid, and while they may now be considering remaining closed to international travel, the reality is that this is an unsustainable decision. I'm very familiar with the situation in many countries in Africa, and the reality is that they face challenges far greater than COVID at this time. Therefore I do expect that we will continue to see countries open as they struggle to balance tourism revenues with the spread of COVID. (I could say a lot more on the subject, but am trying to avoid politics and to avoid detouring the thread. However I did feel the need to reply to your comment to clarify the situation)
https://www.dw.com/en/african-airlines-take-off-with-clipped-wings/a-54077929


----------



## TarotFox

Moved my October trip into a placeholder. I couldn't call myself as I booked through DU, but I certainly wasn't offered any additional benefits. This would have been my first ABD, and the lack of being able to use any EBD makes me feel like they're going to just end up keeping my deposit.


----------



## OKW Lover

OKW Lover said:


> Our next ABD is scheduled for September 21.  Its a SouthWest Splendors trip and I'm seriously doubting that it will actually happen.  Still, I did go ahead and PIF using my Disney Visa.  If the trip happens, we will go.  If it gets canceled I'll take the refund rather than move the money to a different trip.  Fortunately we are retired and can be flexible with our travel plans.


Well, the shoe dropped today.  Last week ABD canceled all trips through the end of September except for this one and one to Iceland.  Today they canceled both of those too.  

Not really surprised.  Won't be hurt financially by the cancelation as I hadn't bought the flights yet.  Had booked one night beforehand in a Phoenix hotel with no cancellation penalty.  Also had paid about 25% of the balance of the trip on my Disney Credit card taking advantage of 0% interest so the full refund will hit the card leaving me a fairly significant credit balance.  Once the cancellation goes through I'll just call and request a check for that credit balance.   Net financial impact to me is zero.

However, I also am a bit disappointed that I won't be going on that trip as it really sounded wonderful.  I'll hold off making a decision on future ABD's for a while.


----------



## disneyholic family

RbdFoxes311 said:


> 100% agree with all of this. We are booked on a late Oct BSM too. I'm furious that they won't give us any information, or let us cancel for full refund, OR let us book next year at the early booking rate we had originally booked. They won't give any answers about how they are going to social-distance us on a tour bus, not to mention the parks not even being open yet.
> 
> I did notice that for the last few months the itineraries for all BSM dates through April 2021 were taken down - the webpage just said "sorry page not found." They are back now, so I'm leaning on just taking the loss on my deposit to be shut of the whole thing.





TarotFox said:


> Moved my October trip into a placeholder. I couldn't call myself as I booked through DU, but I certainly wasn't offered any additional benefits. This would have been my first ABD, and the lack of being able to use any EBD makes me feel like they're going to just end up keeping my deposit.



we were on the late October BSM as well, but we already cancelled a month ago. 
Or rather, it was moved to a placeholder, since ABD doesn't allow cancelling even in corona times, which is a major bone of contention for me.

To hang tough as someone suggested, you have to pay in full in order to wait out an ABD cancellation.
I wasn't willing to send them yet more money in the hopes they'd eventually refund in full.
I've essentially kissed the deposit goodbye. So a loss of $1300. 
Plus another $2,000 for airfare, though i'm hoping to eventually be able to use as least some of that airfare for tickets next summer if the skies reopen and the airline doesn't go belly up (still not a sure thing).

At least i've been having fun going onto touring sites and warning people away from ABD.  I'm sure it has absolutely no effect, but at least i feel better.

.


----------



## TarotFox

To be honest I'm not done with ABD over this. I still want to take BSM next year. I'm really frustrated that I ended up in this position with no flexibility, but I sort of feel like you win some you lose some. I never buy trip insurance because I've never needed it, and in generally I feel my emergency fund + all the money I've saved over trips by not buying insurance can cover anything. But sometimes you lose out. I'm counting myself lucky that a $600 deposit with an inflexible travel company is the least I'm out so far, though it does leave a bitter taste in my mouth.

I intend to find a way to salvage my deposit through another trip, but not if the world doesn't get better.


----------



## sayhello

I apparently never un-subscribed from notifications about travel to France.  I just got the following in an email from the U.S. Embassy in Paris

*Health Alert
U.S. Embassy Paris, France*
August 7, 2020
*Location: * France
*Event*: The U.S. Embassy in Paris is sending regular updates to ensure that all U.S. citizens in France have the latest information on COVID-19, and local security conditions in France.  

The Department of State has removed the global Level 4 Travel Alert advising United States citizens not to travel internationally.  It has reverted to country specific travel alert levels.  For France, it has issued a Level 3 Health Advisory, advising U.S. citizens to *reconsider travel due to the impact of COVID-19.*

The following information has been updated on the U.S. Embassy Paris COVID-19 website regarding travel to France.

Broad restrictions on non-essential travel from many countries outside the European Union, including the United States, remain in place. The French government has defined essential travel as entry by French citizens, residents of France, students, and spouses and children of French citizens.
In rare cases, the French government will consider allowing travel in humanitarian situations and reportedly in cases of business activity important to the French economy. Persons may inquire about such allowances with the French Embassy in Washington, DC (visas@consulfrance-washington.org).
The United States Embassy has no standing to intervene or advocate for the private travel of United States citizens to France. Please contact your nearest French Embassy or French Consulate or refer to France Visas. If you are already in France, please contact your nearest Prefecture or refer to Ministry of the Interior or Prefecture de Police.
The bolding is not mine.  So it's *some* progress, but we still can't go there.  I don't know if this holds true for other EU countries or not.

Sayhello


----------



## Mathmagicland

sayhello said:


> I apparently never un-subscribed from notifications about travel to France.  I just got the following in an email from the U.S. Embassy in Paris
> 
> *Health Alert
> U.S. Embassy Paris, France*
> August 7, 2020
> *Location: * France
> *Event*: The U.S. Embassy in Paris is sending regular updates to ensure that all U.S. citizens in France have the latest information on COVID-19, and local security conditions in France.
> 
> The Department of State has removed the global Level 4 Travel Alert advising United States citizens not to travel internationally.  It has reverted to country specific travel alert levels.  For France, it has issued a Level 3 Health Advisory, advising U.S. citizens to *reconsider travel due to the impact of COVID-19.*
> 
> The following information has been updated on the U.S. Embassy Paris COVID-19 website regarding travel to France.
> 
> Broad restrictions on non-essential travel from many countries outside the European Union, including the United States, remain in place. The French government has defined essential travel as entry by French citizens, residents of France, students, and spouses and children of French citizens.
> In rare cases, the French government will consider allowing travel in humanitarian situations and reportedly in cases of business activity important to the French economy. Persons may inquire about such allowances with the French Embassy in Washington, DC (visas@consulfrance-washington.org).
> The United States Embassy has no standing to intervene or advocate for the private travel of United States citizens to France. Please contact your nearest French Embassy or French Consulate or refer to France Visas. If you are already in France, please contact your nearest Prefecture or refer to Ministry of the Interior or Prefecture de Police.
> The bolding is not mine.  So it's *some* progress, but we still can't go there.  I don't know if this holds true for other EU countries or not.
> 
> Sayhello


I also never updated my travel plans with the State Dept, and have received similar emails Today from our embassies in a few other countries.


----------



## teruterubouzu

sayhello said:


> I apparently never un-subscribed from notifications about travel to France.  I just got the following in an email from the U.S. Embassy in Paris
> 
> *Health Alert
> U.S. Embassy Paris, France*
> August 7, 2020
> *Location: * France
> *Event*: The U.S. Embassy in Paris is sending regular updates to ensure that all U.S. citizens in France have the latest information on COVID-19, and local security conditions in France.
> 
> The Department of State has removed the global Level 4 Travel Alert advising United States citizens not to travel internationally.  It has reverted to country specific travel alert levels.  For France, it has issued a Level 3 Health Advisory, advising U.S. citizens to *reconsider travel due to the impact of COVID-19.*
> 
> The following information has been updated on the U.S. Embassy Paris COVID-19 website regarding travel to France.
> 
> Broad restrictions on non-essential travel from many countries outside the European Union, including the United States, remain in place. The French government has defined essential travel as entry by French citizens, residents of France, students, and spouses and children of French citizens.
> In rare cases, the French government will consider allowing travel in humanitarian situations and reportedly in cases of business activity important to the French economy. Persons may inquire about such allowances with the French Embassy in Washington, DC (visas@consulfrance-washington.org).
> The United States Embassy has no standing to intervene or advocate for the private travel of United States citizens to France. Please contact your nearest French Embassy or French Consulate or refer to France Visas. If you are already in France, please contact your nearest Prefecture or refer to Ministry of the Interior or Prefecture de Police.
> The bolding is not mine.  So it's *some* progress, but we still can't go there.  I don't know if this holds true for other EU countries or not.
> 
> Sayhello


I mean you are probably safer traveling to or being in France. Unfortunately France doesn't want US people there for obvious reasons.


----------



## neurosx1983

teruterubouzu said:


> I mean you are probably safer traveling to or being in France. Unfortunately France doesn't want US people there for obvious reasons.



On a side note, I keep getting US embassy Paris alerts even though I unsubscribed several times...its hard to get off those lists!


----------



## Mathmagicland

neurosx1983 said:


> On a side note, I keep getting US embassy Paris alerts even though I unsubscribed several times...its hard to get off those lists!


If you delete the trip from your travel.gov profile, I think those emails might stop.


----------



## disneyholic family

teruterubouzu said:


> I mean you are probably safer traveling to or being in France. Unfortunately France doesn't want US people there for obvious reasons.



France has high numbers of new cases again. 
They had 2,288 new cases yesterday.  
It's a similar pattern everywhere. 
Lock down, numbers go down, open up, numbers go up.
Put on a mask, socially distance and get on with your life.
The only reason to avoid international travel is the risk of being hospitalized in a foreign country.
Otherwise, i see no reason not to travel anywhere.
.


----------



## SingingMom

disneyholic family said:


> Put on a mask, socially distance and get on with your life.
> The only reason to avoid international travel is the risk of being hospitalized in a foreign country.
> Otherwise, i see no reason not to travel anywhere.
> .


If I need to go to the store, I wear a mask.  When we go to church, we wear masks.  When we are in the airport and on flights, we wear masks.   *But I do NOT want my $20K vacation to include wearing a mask *walking through the cobblestone roads of Italy, in each museum or church that we enter, etc etc. 

I REALLY hope they cancel so we can get our money back and think about another trip in a year or two.


----------



## disneyholic family

SingingMom said:


> If I need to go to the store, I wear a mask.  When we go to church, we wear masks.  When we are in the airport and on flights, we wear masks.   *But I do NOT want my $20K vacation to include wearing a mask *walking through the cobblestone roads of Italy, in each museum or church that we enter, etc etc.
> 
> I REALLY hope they cancel so we can get our money back and think about another trip in a year or two.



to clarify, i am not encouraging international travel...
as i said, you run the risk of ending up in a foreign hospital without the possibility of being medivaced back home.

But that's the only reason i'm against it.
i wouldn't have any problem at all wearing a mask while touring italy or anywhere else.
But the hospitalization issue is a deal-breaker for me.

by the way, where i live, we're supposed to wear masks all the time, indoors and out.
the fine is rather hefty, which is why people are for the most part complying.
so yes, even just walking down the street, the 2 blocks from our house to my son's house, we wear our masks (and everyone passing us is also wearing one).
or in the playground with the grandkids....
we have them on everywhere and you get used to them.

i'm not sure why they would be an issue while visiting a church or museum.
doesn't matter though, the hospitalization problem is what matters


----------



## Blondie58

Today our ABD to Europe on the Rhine River was cancelled.  Prior to today the date of cancellations was September 30.  We had placed a deposit on the same trip for next fall in July as a "just-in-case" measure.  The latter being said we transferred 2020 $$$ to fall 2021.  ABD was very helpful with making the travel changes etc.  I am somewhat relieved the decision to stay home or to go was taken out of our hands.   I assume the folks at ABD are at the pulse of all info coming out of Europe to the area we were to travel.  Nest year is going to be a huge travel year!!  Good heath to all.


----------



## disneyholic family

Blondie58 said:


> Today our ABD to Europe on the Rhine River was cancelled.  Prior to today the date of cancellations was September 30.  We had placed a deposit on the same trip for next fall in July as a "just-in-case" measure.  The latter being said we transferred 2020 $$$ to fall 2021.  ABD was very helpful with making the travel changes etc.  I am somewhat relieved the decision to stay home or to go was taken out of our hands.   I assume the folks at ABD are at the pulse of all info coming out of Europe to the area we were to travel.  Nest year is going to be a huge travel year!!  Good heath to all.



if the covid thing is behind us, then for sure next year will have tremendous pent up demand.
But the "covid thing behind us" is still a question...

i'm in the midst of planning our 2021 visit to WDW.
Summer 2021 has always been the target date for the big family WDW trip (the last was in 2017).
And i'm now a week away from the 11 month mark for our DVC reservations.
However, the shadow of corona virus still hangs over it, even with the trip scheduled for July/August.
My daughter in law, like *SingingMom*, has put a veto on the trip if masks are still the order of the day.
The rest of us in our group of 9 would be ok with masks, just give us our WDW fix, but she is unwilling to compromise.
So i'll book our 24 days at WDW, but it's not a done deal.
And it won't be a sure thing for quite a long time.

Though if i had any guts at all, i'd buy our plane tickets now.
i'm finding them at half price, or even less than that.
But if the airline goes belly up, i'll be kissing yet more money goodbye.

Oh well.  It will work out.  If not 2021, then some time.


----------



## sayhello

SingingMom said:


> If I need to go to the store, I wear a mask.  When we go to church, we wear masks.  When we are in the airport and on flights, we wear masks.   *But I do NOT want my $20K vacation to include wearing a mask *walking through the cobblestone roads of Italy, in each museum or church that we enter, etc etc.
> 
> I REALLY hope they cancel so we can get our money back and think about another trip in a year or two.


Looks like you got your wish.  All ABDs besides SoCal BSM trips are cancelled through end of October.

Sayhello


----------



## SingingMom

sayhello said:


> Looks like you got your wish.  All ABDs besides SoCal BSM trips are cancelled through end of October.
> 
> Sayhello


Yep.  But only because I saw a posting.  I called ABD and they said "we called last week and left a message."   Well, there was a hurricane and four days of power outages...  you think maybe they should have tried again to notify us?   

We took the full refund instead of moving the money to another trip.  We'll wait and see the travel climate in the next year or two.  Italy will still be there!


----------



## TravelJunkieHubby

https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/tips/americans-europe-covid-travel/
I saw this article... made me feel a bit optimistic ABD trips could start again next Spring.  Though I’m sure they’ll look different (maybe no more 40+ groups)


----------



## sayhello

TravelJunkieHubby said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/tips/americans-europe-covid-travel/
> I saw this article... made me feel a bit optimistic ABD trips could start again next Spring.  Though I’m sure they’ll look different (maybe no more 40+ groups)


I don't know.    Broadway just announced that they won't reopen until at least the end of May 2021.  And that's domestic.  Maybe by summer?  Who knows?

Sayhello


----------



## Mathmagicland

TravelJunkieHubby said:


> https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/tips/americans-europe-covid-travel/
> I saw this article... made me feel a bit optimistic ABD trips could start again next Spring.  Though I’m sure they’ll look different (maybe no more 40+ groups)


Thanks for posting this.  Loved Rick Steve’s comments. 

I have a late May 2021 AbD booked and as of now give it maybe 50% odds of happening.  I can’t even get into booking non-AbD aspects right now. It is not showing as waitlisted; maybe I will call AbD to see how many are booked. Fewer people would be a nice way to start out. 

I’m more confident of the October one having a chance to go as scheduled.  It is waitlisted but don’t know at how many people in the group.


----------



## AquaDame

Mathmagicland said:


> Thanks for posting this.  Loved Rick Steve’s comments.
> 
> I have a late May 2021 AbD booked and as of now give it maybe 50% odds of happening.  I can’t even get into booking non-AbD aspects right now. It is not showing as waitlisted; maybe I will call AbD to see how many are booked. Fewer people would be a nice way to start out.
> 
> I’m more confident of the October one having a chance to go as scheduled.  It is waitlisted but don’t know at how many people in the group.



We're late May also... not doing any planning at all until we hear something... anything... from either Disney or the EU in regards to relaxing entry.


----------



## tink1970

Mathmagicland said:


> maybe I will call AbD to see how many are booked.



If you're on the Central Europe ABD, I know there are at least 2 more on that one  I have flights and hotels (pre and post nights) all scheduled. It was pretty easy (not _painless _but easy) to cancel everything so I'd rather have what I want than not. I'm still hopeful we'll go but if we don't, there's always 2022 or 2023. This year has been excellent for perspective.


----------



## Mathmagicland

tink1970 said:


> If you're on the Central Europe ABD, I know there are at least 2 more on that one  I have flights and hotels (pre and post nights) all scheduled. It was pretty easy (not _painless _but easy) to cancel everything so I'd rather have what I want than not. I'm still hopeful we'll go but if we don't, there's always 2022 or 2023. This year has been excellent for perspective.



Yes, that’s the May trip!   I have pre and post hotels booked but no flIghts or other activities booked yet.  I also know what I plan to do on the pre & post days but haven’t put the $$ down yet to book those. 

My thinking on flights is so much can change in the next few months with more flight options being added, or flight times changing if travel starts to ramp up, that I’m not yet willing to commit to flights.  Guess I might start looking at what’s out there now.


----------



## tink1970

Mathmagicland said:


> Yes, that’s the May trip!   I have pre and post hotels booked but no flIghts or other activities booked yet.  I also know what I plan to do on the pre & post days but haven’t put the $$ down yet to book those.
> 
> My thinking on flights is so much can change in the next few months with more flight options being added, or flight times changing if travel starts to ramp up, that I’m not yet willing to commit to flights.  Guess I might start looking at what’s out there now.




Oh I completely understand-I booked with points/miles that I'd already gotten back from a 2020 cancelled trip so those apparently are "easy come easy go" in my mind  My attitude is  completely different with real money!


----------



## Kit Jackson

My guess is that domestic trips (trips within the US) may start before international trips (trips outside the US). If, and this is a huge, if, the vaccine is ready by spring 2021, it will still be awhile before travel is possible, because the vaccine will not be made available to everyone at once on demand the way regular flu shots are.


----------



## sayhello

This is totally heresay, so take it for what it's worth, but a TA who I know books a *lot* of ABD said on fb that ABD called her today and said "the rest of 2020 is gone" (her words).  I'm not hugely surprised given the surge in cases going on all over the US and many places in Europe.  It will be interesting to see if they announce this soon.

Sayhello


----------



## bcwife76

sayhello said:


> This is totally heresay, so take it for what it's worth, but a TA who I know books a *lot* of ABD said on fb that ABD called her today and said "the rest of 2020 is gone" (her words).  I'm not hugely surprised given the surge in cases going on all over the US and many places in Europe.  It will be interesting to see if they announce this soon.
> 
> Sayhello


All ABDs have been cancelled through December 31 2020. It's on the ABD website.


----------



## Sakura1017

I really want them to change their policy on bookings for opening day earlier in the year. I booked for Fall 2021 and want my money back lol. I hate how I have to wait for them to cancel to get my money back.


----------



## Mathmagicland

Sakura1017 said:


> I really want them to change their policy on bookings for opening day earlier in the year. I booked for Fall 2021 and want my money back lol. I hate how I have to wait for them to cancel to get my money back.


Did you book the May opening day?  Those deposits are/should be  fully refundable up to final payment date.  

They updated the info on the AbD website yesterday and there are many changes. IE some of the 2022 SoCal Disneyland AbD will have different policies.  

https://www.adventuresbydisney.com/travel-advisory/


----------



## AquaDame

Mathmagicland said:


> Did you book the May opening day?  Those deposits are/should be  fully refundable up to final payment date.
> 
> They updated the info on the AbD website yesterday and there are many changes. IE some of the 2022 SoCal Disneyland AbD will have different policies.
> 
> https://www.adventuresbydisney.com/travel-advisory/



Edited to remove - totally forgot there was another release after January (even though you said May...)


----------



## st40

Kit Jackson said:


> My guess is that domestic trips (trips within the US) may start before international trips (trips outside the US). If, and this is a huge, if, the vaccine is ready by spring 2021, it will still be awhile before travel is possible, because the vaccine will not be made available to everyone at once on demand the way regular flu shots are.



I agree...once a vaccine (or even better yet, several vaccines) are proven to be safe and effective, getting them out to everyone who would like one will take time.  I imagine that travel within the US and Canada will resume prior to destionions beyond NA.  It sure makes it difficult to plan!  I think that we'll likely look more at domestic than international travel for 2021.


----------



## sayhello

st40 said:


> I agree...once a vaccine (or even better yet, several vaccines) are proven to be safe and effective, getting them out to everyone who would like one will take time.  I imagine that travel within the US and Canada will resume prior to destionions beyond NA.  It sure makes it difficult to plan!  I think that we'll likely look more at domestic than international travel for 2021.


I wouldn't count on Canada any time soon.  They do not want us until we have this virus under better control.  

Sayhello


----------



## EllinK

Summer 2021 just started looking like a possibility.


----------



## AquaDame

EllinK said:


> Summer 2021 just started looking like a possibility.



All eyes will be on how fast the rollout can happen if the vaccine continues to do well... I'm feeling excited!


----------



## TravelJunkieHubby

EllinK said:


> Summer 2021 just started looking like a possibility.


We will likely still wait until 2022 - but I'm happy for those that want to travel internationally in 2021 and the travel industry as a whole hopefully getting back on it's feet.


----------



## laceltris3

TravelJunkieHubby said:


> We will likely still wait until 2022 - but I'm happy for those that want to travel internationally in 2021 and the travel industry as a whole hopefully getting back on it's feet.




I am feeling better about the possibility for our US trip in June, which I had all but written off. 

I still think most international travel will be more difficult than I am willing to undertake with kids for most of the year.


----------



## EllinK

laceltris3 said:


> I am feeling better about the possibility for our US trip in June, which I had all but written off.
> 
> I still think most international travel will be more difficult than I am willing to undertake with kids for most of the year.




I agree with you. We have not traveled since March so will likely travel within the US this summer. Yay!! I have NZ booked for Dec 2021 and I'm feeling pretty good about that.


----------



## AddictedtoTravel

Three trips cancelled in the past nine months, South Africa, Winter in Wyoming and Portugal. We are booked on the Copenhagen Escape and the ABD/10 night Northern Europe Cruise in August. I'm once again hopeful but trying to not get too hopeful just in case.


----------



## TravelJunkieHubby

Is it just me, or does it seem overly optimistic that ABD is still planning March 2021 trips for Costa Rica and Arizona/Utah?


----------



## disneyholic family

TravelJunkieHubby said:


> Is it just me, or does it seem overly optimistic that ABD is still planning March 2021 trips for Costa Rica and Arizona/Utah?


wildly over optimistic


----------



## AquaDame

TravelJunkieHubby said:


> Is it just me, or does it seem overly optimistic that ABD is still planning March 2021 trips for Costa Rica and Arizona/Utah?



Overly optimistic IMO. I could see them running domestic trips (if they want to do the wrong thing, again IMO) but I'm stumped on Costa Rica. I heard the trip after that one has also been cancelled which makes it even more puzzling.


----------



## st40

I agree, it seems that domestic travel will be possible before international.  It'll be interesting to see the vaccine rollout, and how quickly populations get vaccinated across different countries.  I'm sure that would be a consideration for international destinations for both ABD & most travelers.


----------



## laceltris3

We changed our trip from Switzerland to Yellowstone with Tauck because we weren’t confident that we could travel and or deal with any quarantine requirements and recently received updated info on the trip. Tauck is requiring people that they have had a negative COVID test within 5 days of departure.

I hope they will update that to no longer require testing if people have been vaccinated, once the vaccines are widely available, but it is interesting to see what is happening in advance of these trips starting up again.


----------



## sayhello

laceltris3 said:


> We changed our trip from Switzerland to Yellowstone with Tauck because we weren’t confident that we could travel and or deal with any quarantine requirements and recently received updated info on the trip. Tauck is requiring people that they have had a negative COVID test within 5 days of departure.
> 
> I hope they will update that to no longer require testing if people have been vaccinated, once the vaccines are widely available, but it is interesting to see what is happening in advance of these trips starting up again.


I've read that they haven't determined yet if having been vaccinated prevents you from spreading the virus.  It just keeps you from getting sick, or *as* sick.  No-one knows yet if you can still be a carrier if you've had the vaccine.

Sayhello


----------



## lovetotravel

.


----------



## lovetotravel

.


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## leannak

Has anyone noticed anything in the ABD website? Any new cancellations or additions, any hopeful blog posts, anything at all? Just curious. I feel like it’s been so long since we’ve heard anything.


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## sayhello

leannak said:


> Has anyone noticed anything in the ABD website? Any new cancellations or additions, any hopeful blog posts, anything at all? Just curious. I feel like it’s been so long since we’ve heard anything.


Do you mean since they cancelled all departures up through March 31, 2021 (except for a couple of Arizona/Utah and Costa Rica trips) on December 21st?  That's not that long ago.

Sayhello


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## AquaDame

^As @sayhello said, only the recent cancellations.

The last email I received was 10/20 for our May trip where they explained pushing back the PIF date and reaffirming deposits are non-refundable. Annoyingly, the *exact* same day they sent out another promo email emphasizing "Peace of Mind" booking with fully refundable deposits for NEW trips. 

Yes, I understand they are a business. It sure feels like if they could afford to do this for a full year of bookings (from March 13th, 2020-March 31, 2021) they could extend that to those of us that were caught in their last release - we booked end of Jan 2020. They've told another guest that this was before it was a pandemic, but that seems disingenuous. It was already out of control in China and spreading - Shanghai and then Hong Kong shut down a few days *before* we booked. I wish I had given Disney less credit to do the right thing if things got bad - it is not a mistake I will make again. I've now had 9 months to stew on them doing us dirty and the earliest I can expect to get my money back is going to be the end of February if they keep doing these absolute last second after PIF cancellations.


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## Skylarr29

AquaDame said:


> ^As @sayhello said, only the recent cancellations.
> 
> The last email I received was 10/20 for our May trip where they explained pushing back the PIF date and reaffirming deposits are non-refundable. Annoyingly, the *exact* same day they sent out another promo email emphasizing "Peace of Mind" booking with fully refundable deposits for NEW trips.
> 
> Yes, I understand they are a business. It sure feels like if they could afford to do this for a full year of bookings (from March 13th, 2020-March 31, 2021) they could extend that to those of us that were caught in their last release - we booked end of Jan 2020. They've told another guest that this was before it was a pandemic, but that seems disingenuous. It was already out of control in China and spreading - Shanghai and then Hong Kong shut down a few days *before* we booked. I wish I had given Disney less credit to do the right thing if things got bad - it is not a mistake I will make again. I've now had 9 months to stew on them doing us dirty and the earliest I can expect to get my money back is going to be the end of February if they keep doing these absolute last second after PIF cancellations.



Agree with you 100%! Our trip was back to back Southeast Asia and CHINA and they refused to cancel before pay in full. We just couldn’t risk paying the balance so we chose new trips and will probably lose those deposits. Definitely bitter and it will certainly influence our decision for future trips.


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## leannak

sayhello said:


> Do you mean since they cancelled all departures up through March 31, 2021 (except for a couple of Arizona/Utah and Costa Rica trips) on December 21st?  That's not that long ago.
> 
> Sayhello



i guess I’m frustrated that ABD is so silent except for official cancellation press release type things. I get Tauck emails and they talk about all kinds of things, destination information, hope for the future, etc. I don’t hear anything like that out of ABD. I just want something to be excited about. I wish they’d tell us what their guides are up to etc. Maybe they are doing some of that and I’m just not seeing it because I’m not on a lot of social media. I was just curious what other news people might have been hearing.


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## TravelJunkieHubby

I hear what you’re saying... I suspect this is part of ABDs playbook: to avoid giving too many details when things are uncertain so as to avoid disappointing customers down the road.  I feel like I’ve seen the same approach from our guides on trips when something doesn’t go as planned.

I reached out to two of the destination managers we had met to wish them Happy Holidays and they were optimistic about ABD resuming at some point... but no details.


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## sayhello

leannak said:


> i guess I’m frustrated that ABD is so silent except for official cancellation press release type things. I get Tauck emails and they talk about all kinds of things, destination information, hope for the future, etc. I don’t hear anything like that out of ABD. I just want something to be excited about. I wish they’d tell us what their guides are up to etc. Maybe they are doing some of that and I’m just not seeing it because I’m not on a lot of social media. I was just curious what other news people might have been hearing.





TravelJunkieHubby said:


> I hear what you’re saying... I suspect this is part of ABDs playbook: to avoid giving too many details when things are uncertain so as to avoid disappointing customers down the road.  I feel like I’ve seen the same approach from our guides on trips when something doesn’t go as planned.
> 
> I reached out to two of the destination managers we had met to wish them Happy Holidays and they were optimistic about ABD resuming at some point... but no details.


Honestly?  Communication is not one of ABD's strong suits at any time.  You really don't hear much from them, period.  You hear a lot when they release the new season and/or new trips, and on rare occasions when they have a special going on.  And some paperwork when you first book.  Other than that?  Not much.  I've always heard that Tauck and Thomson and other companies are much better at that than ABD is.  Should they be keeping people (especially people still booked) apprised on what's going on?  Probably.  Will they, until they have to?  Probably not.

Sayhello


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## TravelJunkieHubby

Check out today's Dreams podcast... ABD discussed ~minute 29 - 38... not looking good for international travel or even BSM in 2021


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## TarotFox

I've been thinking of canceling my October BSM. I'm going to wait and see, but, the thing is I don't want a trip where things aren't normal. I don't want to wear a mask. I don't want things to be canceled. Just being open isn't good enough for me.


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## MiddKid

First ever ABD was booked for Norway July 2020.  Got cancelled and we re-booked July 2021 Norway in May.  Just called and cancelled that for a full refund (booked during the window when full refunds were offered).  Not only are we not going to feel confident going to Europe in less than 6 months (assuming we're allowed to) but living on the opposite coast from my parents, we haven't seen them in over a year.  No way we can justify going to Europe when they haven't seen their grandkids in over a year!  

Hopefully 2022...


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## Mathmagicland

My PIF date for my May departure is next month.   I’ve got about six weeks to see how far into 2021 the AbD cancellations continue or where things are at with the virus in Europe as well as vaccines here. Based on the vaccine priority hierarchy in my county, I won’t have received or started the vaccine process soon enough in order to feel comfortable & be able to go unless supplies increase. I’ve always given it approx 50% chance of going, and it gets a bit less for me with each passing week.   I’ve gone from cautiously optimistic to likely won’t be happening this year for that one. I’m still very hopeful for the October trip.


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## disneyholic family

Mathmagicland said:


> My PIF date for my May departure is next month.   I’ve got about six weeks to see how far into 2021 the AbD cancellations continue or where things are at with the virus in Europe as well as vaccines here. Based on the vaccine priority hierarchy in my county, I won’t have received or started the vaccine process soon enough in order to feel comfortable & be able to go unless supplies increase. I’ve always given it approx 50% chance of going, and it gets a bit less for me with each passing week.   I’ve gone from cautiously optimistic to likely won’t be happening this year for that one. I’m still very hopeful for the October trip.


where are you scheduled to go in May and October?
.


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## Mathmagicland

disneyholic family said:


> where are you scheduled to go in May and October?
> .


May - Central Europe (Poland, Czech, Austria)
October- New Zealand


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## disneyholic family

Mathmagicland said:


> May - Central Europe (Poland, Czech, Austria)
> October- New Zealand



great trips!!
it really is hard to say whether those trips will be a go or not....
just so difficult to know where the vaccine will be in different countries..
and new zealand has been so covid fundamentalist that it's really hard to predict where they'll be in october.


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## CaliKris

Mathmagicland said:


> My PIF date for my May departure is next month.   I’ve got about six weeks to see how far into 2021 the AbD cancellations continue or where things are at with the virus in Europe as well as vaccines here. Based on the vaccine priority hierarchy in my county, I won’t have received or started the vaccine process soon enough in order to feel comfortable & be able to go unless supplies increase. I’ve always given it approx 50% chance of going, and it gets a bit less for me with each passing week.   I’ve gone from cautiously optimistic to likely won’t be happening this year for that one. I’m still very hopeful for the October trip.


I agree with you and feel your pain.  We are scheduled for a May 2021 Egypt ABD.  While a few months ago we were 85% sure it would be a go, now we are just waiting for it to be cancelled and have already decided on a date in 2022.    We also have a September 2021 Portugal/Spain ABD and are very hopeful it will be a go.  It looks like Europe is further along with the vaccine than Egypt (Africa).  We are assuming we will be vacinated by then as well.


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## Hannah nz

Mathmagicland said:


> May - Central Europe (Poland, Czech, Austria)
> October- New Zealand



At the moment our borders are still closed to all but returning NZers and they have to book & pay for 2 weeks hotel quarantine that is enforced by police. We have limited spots for quarantine and I think these are all booked out till end of March. With the situation worsening in the UK (new variant) we now require negative tests before travelling from there, but you still have to quarantine. There is a good chance new countries will have the same requirement if the new strain is picked up there. 

In terms of travel NZ has been open to travel bubbles for places where there is no community spread of covid. This will be local places like Australia and the Pacific Islands before it extends further afield. When we even have a few cases if covid in the community we have moved fast to regional lockdowns in order to contain the spread. We are so small with limited healthcare beds we have no chance but to be very vigilant.  NZ is also waiting for further testing and seeing how the vaccines go before they are given out in NZ. 

I don't mean to be a Debbie downer, just want to provide some context into how we currently are and the requirements we currently have for travel. It is so hard to say what will happen as things change rapidly but as we are now I would say NZ will not be open for travel until other countries can demonstrate there is no spread in the community consistently. 

Locally thought, most are great and we have very few restrictions. The only thing is to wear a mask on public transport and you are strongly encouraged to keep a diary of your movements for contact tracing if needed. We can travel domestically and have concerts, events, weddings etc, all stores and restaurants are open we can dine in, and most people are very pleased with how the country has handled it.

I hope you can complete your trip here as NZ is a great place to travel!


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## Mathmagicland

Hannah nz said:


> I don't mean to be a Debbie downer, just want to provide some context into how we currently are and the requirements we currently have for travel. It is so hard to say what will happen as things change rapidly but as we are now I would say NZ will not be open for travel until other countries can demonstrate there is no spread in the community consistently.
> 
> Locally thought, most are great and we have very few restrictions. The only thing is to wear a mask on public transport and you are strongly encouraged to keep a diary of your movements for contact tracing if needed. We can travel domestically and have concerts, events, weddings etc, all stores and restaurants are open we can dine in, and most people are very pleased with how the country has handled it.
> 
> I hope you can complete your trip here as NZ is a great place to travel!


Please - no worries, and thank you for all of your great insight!  I appreciate it very much. NZ has handled things very well, we could learn from your country.  I realize things will have to be a lot better before we can travel there, to keep NZ safe.  I need something travel related to look forward to, and right now NZ is it!  I have been before, many years ago, and am looking forward to going back. It is one of my favorite travel memories, so beautiful and the people are wonderful!  If it doesn’t work this year, I’ll try for next year.


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## ImprovGal

When the ABD tours do resume, I would expect to see a lot of modifications to itineraries.  Tourism everywhere has taken such a huge hit, and many tourist attractions may not be able to reopen.  Over the weekend I learned of two stops in the Australian ABD that had announced permanent closure (Tjapukai Aboriginal Culture Park and Tobruk Sheep Farm).


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## sayhello

ImprovGal said:


> When the ABD tours do resume, I would expect to see a lot of modifications to itineraries.  Tourism everywhere has taken such a huge hit, and many tourist attractions may not be able to reopen.  Over the weekend I learned of two stops in the Australian ABD that had announced permanent closure (Tjapukai Aboriginal Culture Park and Tobruk Sheep Farm).


I think this is the piece that a lot of folks talking about ABD or DCL are missing out on.  Just because things might at some point in the near future be better here in the US, it doesn't mean things will be good or the same or even close to normal at the destinations.  

Have you seen or heard anything about if they are replacing the stops, and if so, with what?

Sayhello


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## TravelJunkieHubby

ImprovGal said:


> When the ABD tours do resume, I would expect to see a lot of modifications to itineraries.  Tourism everywhere has taken such a huge hit, and many tourist attractions may not be able to reopen.  Over the weekend I learned of two stops in the Australian ABD that had announced permanent closure (Tjapukai Aboriginal Culture Park and Tobruk Sheep Farm).



While we definitely enjoyed Tjapukai and Tobruk - I wouldn’t consider either a deal breaker for Australia.  Many of the ABD trips we have gone on feature a farm or country activity...Tobruk wasn’t that different from other farms.

Tjapukai was where we got to try throwing boomerangs and also got to paint our own boomerang to take home as a souvenir.  Again a nice memory, but I would expect ABD to replace it with something comparable.


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## Mathmagicland

Sharing some news out of Australia today, Australia may not fully open its borders in 2021 - 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-55699581


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## *WDW*Groupie*

Mathmagicland said:


> Sharing some news out of Australia today, Australia may not fully open its borders in 2021 -
> 
> https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-55699581


This is understandable, but very concerning. I have read that NZ is the same -- they may not open their borders until mid-2022. Here I am looking at booking flights for our March, 2022 ABD (first class on Etihad with points -- have to book early) and now I don't even know if it will be able to go.


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## AquaDame

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> This is understandable, but very concerning. I have read that NZ is the same -- they may not open their borders until mid-2022. Here I am looking at booking flights for our March, 2022 ABD (first class on Etihad with points -- have to book early) and now I don't even know if it will be able to go.



Anecdotally my coworker who works from NZ was saying in December the plan was to only open their border to neighboring islands first. They also have not even started vaccinating their people and won't begin until later in 2021. They are watching how it goes with the rest of us first... personally I wouldn't book anything without knowing when it would be feasible unless you can easily get your points back.

https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work...9-response-planning/covid-19-vaccine-planning


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## *WDW*Groupie*

AquaDame said:


> Anecdotally my coworker who works from NZ was saying in December the plan was to only open their border to neighboring islands first. They also have not even started vaccinating their people and won't begin until later in 2021. They are watching how it goes with the rest of us first... personally I wouldn't book anything without knowing when it would be feasible unless you can easily get your points back.
> 
> https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work...9-response-planning/covid-19-vaccine-planning


Thank you. I am able to get my points back thankfully. I am trying to coming to grips with the fact that this trip may not happen for me as ds is planning on teaching overseas in 2023 .


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## Mathmagicland

I


*WDW*Groupie* said:


> This is understandable, but very concerning. I have read that NZ is the same -- they may not open their borders until mid-2022. Here I am looking at booking flights for our March, 2022 ABD (first class on Etihad with points -- have to book early) and now I don't even know if it will be able to go.


I’m in a similar situation as I’m booked on the October NZ AbD and have not yet booked my flights.  Don’t intend to for a while longer, and guess I’ll have a decision to make when the PIF dates come up whether to pay or not. That’s still a few months away....lots can happen before then but I’m also realistic that the trip may have to get postponed a year or so.


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## DCPhotoGal

Thanks for all of the input on New Zealand.  We are booked for the Dec 2021 trip, but from what I'm reading here it might be prudent to switch to another trip.


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## lovetotravel

.


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## Mathmagicland

New Zealand borders likely closed for most of 2021 - 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/26/asia/new-zealand-covid-borders-shut-intl-hnk/index.html


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## sayhello

Mathmagicland said:


> New Zealand borders likely closed for most of 2021 -
> 
> https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/26/asia/new-zealand-covid-borders-shut-intl-hnk/index.html


Sad, but not unexpected.   

Sayhello


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## lovetotravel

.


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## TarotFox

Can't blame them. They've aced this whole pandemic and deserve to protect their whole population before letting tourists bring it and having it run rampant after all this time.


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## AquaDame

I just got the email warning me I have to PIF for May in the next 30 days... with April not even cancelled yet it looks like they stopped following their cancellation trend. Anyone know if I push my luck and PIF can I still move funds to another trip? Or is that impossible after PIF..?


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## lovetotravel

.


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## lovetotravel

.


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## sayhello

AquaDame said:


> I just got the email warning me I have to PIF for May in the next 30 days... with April not even cancelled yet it looks like they stopped following their cancellation trend. Anyone know if I push my luck and PIF can I still move funds to another trip? Or is that impossible after PIF..?


Their normal policy is that you cannot move the funds once you PIF.  Whether your trip falls under some sort of exception due to the pandemic would be a question for ABD.

ABD's normal policy is (bolding is mine):

_Please note: In accordance with our response to the COVID-19 virus, Adventures by Disney has updated our cancellation policy.

Cancellations can be made by telephone or in writing. The time of cancellation will be the date upon which Adventures by Disney Travel Services receives notice from you. If you fail to execute and return the Adventure Travel Agreement to us no later than 14 calendar days after booking, it will be deemed a cancellation by you. *If you make changes to the vacation commencement date or chosen vacation, it will be deemed a cancellation by you. *If you cancel, amounts paid, minus cancellation fees and nonrefundable amounts, will be promptly refunded. Regardless of when you book, your deposit is refundable for 14 calendar days after original booking. You must notify us if you decide to cancel within this 14-calendar day period.

Unless stated otherwise in your Guest Confirmation, the following cancellation policy shall apply:_


Days Prior to Vacation Commencement Date​Fee Amount​120 days or moreDeposit per Guest119-90 days50% of vacation package price per Guest89-46 days75% of vacation package price per Guest45 days or less100% of vacation package price per Guest
​The COVID cancellation policy says this, which I'm sure is not what you want to hear:

*ADVENTURE DATE CHANGE POLICY UPDATE*

_Guests currently booked on adventures through *April 30, 2021* can change their reservation up to 45 days prior to their trip and receive a 100% credit to be used toward a future adventure. Guests may select an alternative adventure and/or a new travel date for itineraries departing through May 31, 2022 by calling (855) 223-0025 or (407) 566-8345. The credit is non-refundable and will be applied against the standard prevailing rates of the new itinerary and/or travel dates selected. _

It also says:

*FINAL PAYMENT UPDATE*
_
For *existing* bookings that travel through *March 31, 2022*, final payment will now be due 90 days prior to the adventure start date. Trips cancelled between 89-45 days prior to departure are subject to a 50% cancellation penalty; trips cancelled less than 45 days prior to departure are subject to a 100% cancellation penalty. Disneyland Resort and Southern California Escape departures beginning in March 2022, all Buenos Aires Escape departures, and all expedition cruise sailings are excluded from this final payment policy._ 

Sayhello


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## Mathmagicland

sayhello said:


> Their normal policy is that you cannot move the funds once you PIF.  Whether your trip falls under some sort of exception due to the pandemic would be a question for ABD.
> 
> ABD's normal policy is (bolding is mine):
> 
> _Please note: In accordance with our response to the COVID-19 virus, Adventures by Disney has updated our cancellation policy.
> 
> Cancellations can be made by telephone or in writing. The time of cancellation will be the date upon which Adventures by Disney Travel Services receives notice from you. If you fail to execute and return the Adventure Travel Agreement to us no later than 14 calendar days after booking, it will be deemed a cancellation by you. *If you make changes to the vacation commencement date or chosen vacation, it will be deemed a cancellation by you. *If you cancel, amounts paid, minus cancellation fees and nonrefundable amounts, will be promptly refunded. Regardless of when you book, your deposit is refundable for 14 calendar days after original booking. You must notify us if you decide to cancel within this 14-calendar day period.
> 
> Unless stated otherwise in your Guest Confirmation, the following cancellation policy shall apply:_
> 
> 
> Days Prior to Vacation Commencement Date​Fee Amount​120 days or moreDeposit per Guest119-90 days50% of vacation package price per Guest89-46 days75% of vacation package price per Guest45 days or less100% of vacation package price per Guest
> ​The COVID cancellation policy says this, which I'm sure is not what you want to hear:
> 
> *ADVENTURE DATE CHANGE POLICY UPDATE*
> 
> _Guests currently booked on adventures through *April 30, 2021* can change their reservation up to 45 days prior to their trip and receive a 100% credit to be used toward a future adventure. Guests may select an alternative adventure and/or a new travel date for itineraries departing through May 31, 2022 by calling (855) 223-0025 or (407) 566-8345. The credit is non-refundable and will be applied against the standard prevailing rates of the new itinerary and/or travel dates selected. _
> 
> It also says:
> 
> *FINAL PAYMENT UPDATE*
> 
> _For *existing* bookings that travel through *March 31, 2022*, final payment will now be due 90 days prior to the adventure start date. Trips cancelled between 89-45 days prior to departure are subject to a 50% cancellation penalty; trips cancelled less than 45 days prior to departure are subject to a 100% cancellation penalty. Disneyland Resort and Southern California Escape departures beginning in March 2022, all Buenos Aires Escape departures, and all expedition cruise sailings are excluded from this final payment policy._
> 
> Sayhello


Isn’t the normal pattern to offer the ability to change the trip the last step before the trip cancellations?   Don’t know your May trip dates - I’m in a similar situation with the PIF email for a May 25 trip.

 I’m seriously considering canceling vs paying & later moving the funds to something else, because should travel start up again I’m not wanting to take the chance my trip might actually happen.  I’m not comfortable going to Central Europe at this time. Still too many unknowns & I won’t have the vaccine by then.   A lot can change between now & then, I realize, but it still feels too soon & I’m less of a gambler with this one.   I still want to do the trip but no longer attached to the May dates & want things to be more open before settling on another date.


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## lovetotravel

.


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## AquaDame

lovetotravel said:


> Where is your trip? Are you able to deal with the quarantine and covid test back into US?



May 27th - yes we could do both, as we work from home at present. It wouldn't be good optics for me to do that to my coworkers as I do go in a few times a week for a few hours when it is absolutely necessary. I'd not only be taking  a vacation but making them cover my on site work for a couple weeks after as well. That's if we don't care about possibly contracting it also, which we very much do. I do not appreciate ABD's attitude that its our problem when its a GLOBAL PANDEMIC and clearly the world sees catching it as a Very Bad Thing that we are changing our way of life to avoid.



lovetotravel said:


> Also when did you book and did you book with the refundable deposit?



We booked day 1, January 27th, 2020 so no refundable deposit. If that were an option we would have cancelled months ago when it became apparent that we will not be fully vaccinated by the end of May. We also would have a MUCH higher opinion of ABD, let me tell you...  



Mathmagicland said:


> Isn’t the normal pattern to offer the ability to change the trip the last step before the trip cancellations?   Don’t know your May trip dates - I’m in a similar situation with the PIF email for a May 25 trip.
> 
> I’m seriously considering canceling vs paying & later moving the funds to something else, because should travel start up again I’m not wanting to take the chance my trip might actually happen.  I’m not comfortable going to Central Europe at this time. Still too many unknowns & I won’t have the vaccine by then.   A lot can change between now & then, I realize, but it still feels too soon & I’m less of a gambler with this one.   I still want to do the trip but no longer attached to the May dates & want things to be more open before settling on another date.



Yeah, @sayhello posted the official rules (thank you!!) but I know they are a little vague about the one time move that shouldn't be possible but totally has been. I was hoping folks may have had experience with doing this in the last year and would be able to tell me what is happening unofficially within their PIF date. 

A couple of weeks ago I was perfectly fine with waiting but now that they are not following their cancellation schedule I am uncertain again. I can't believe I've been having to fret this much about a trip for over a year now. DCL cruises are cancelling into May already, while ABD is saying they can send a group to Costa Rica in March. 

I really don't think this trip can go responsibly, that is the crux of my anger, but ultimately I am not going to risk 5K with possibly nothing to show for it. If I am wrong, and the trip goes, then I will shut up about it as it truly will have been a choice I made. Right now though? I feel I am being played for my deposit with their games. I think, like you, if I can't move the trip after PIF and they haven't cancelled it by our PIF day then I have no choice, which is a slap in the face when (if?) they do cancel it. 

I intend on cancelling the other Disney trip we have booked for November if I lose my deposit. It's mental gymnastics since lost money is lost money but it will make me feel like I at least did _something _to recoup.

I can't imagine what would make me book another ABD at that point. For years I and others have said time and again that Disney keeps you safe, they can be trusted to do the right thing. They're selling their reputation with me at present. Guess that's worth about 1K to them.


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## TarotFox

I know that this isn't policy, but when I was in this situation in June I moved it to a placeholder instead of canceling. I didn't have much intention of using it, but a few months later after the trip was canceled Kevin was able to get them to refund it for me. He did stress that it was a bit of CM magic, and I'm so thankful he pulled it off for me.


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## AquaDame

TarotFox said:


> I know that this isn't policy, but when I was in this situation in June I moved it to a placeholder instead of canceling. I didn't have much intention of using it, but a few months later after the trip was canceled Kevin was able to get them to refund it for me. He did stress that it was a bit of CM magic, and I'm so thankful he pulled it off for me.



That is really nice..! I don't know that I can count on magic though... that is always at their whim.


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## Mathmagicland

Received the AbD email today re my booking for this May, offering me the opportunity to move all funds to either another adventure or place the booking as a future travel hold date, for travel that will be completed by May 31, 2022.  Should I choose either option, the future travel credit is non-refundable.  Since I was fortunate enough to book in May 2020 with a fully refundable deposit up to PIF date which is later this month, I don’t think I will take them up on this offer.  But, as I recall, it is the step before they move to cancel the adventure.


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## AquaDame

Mathmagicland said:


> Received the AbD email today re my booking for this May, offering me the opportunity to move all funds to either another adventure or place the booking as a future travel hold date, for travel that will be completed by May 31, 2022.  Should I choose either option, the future travel credit is non-refundable.  Since I was fortunate enough to book in May 2020 with a fully refundable deposit up to PIF date which is later this month, I don’t think I will take them up on this offer.  But, as I recall, it is the step before they move to cancel the adventure.



Checked my email excitedly... no such offer for me.  I wonder if the river cruises will be handled differently.


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## AquaDame

I should have checked the website first - I don't see terms being different for my trip as listed there. I guess in this case it will be safer to PIF and park it if it is not cancelled before 45 days out. I'll see what my husband would prefer to do now (if it were up to him he'd have already eaten the loss and been done with them).


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## Rapunzellover

I just canceled my May Portugal trip and got a deposit refund.  Even if it goes, it won't be what I want.  For the price, I'm willing to wait until I know it will be the magic I have always gotten from ABD.


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## aggiedog

It's not ABD, but I have a trip to Morocco with Classic Journeys scheduled for March 27 that is a go, shockingly.  PIF was 10 days ago, but they didn't decide to proceed until a week later, so didn't actually take any payment until yesterday.  I've had my 2 vaccinations and had decided it was time to venture out into the world again.  I still feel like it could be canceled at any time if the situation changes, so I guess I"ll believe it when I get there.


----------



## AddictedtoTravel

The Classic Journeys Morocco trip is on my short list. I've look at it several times and had decided to book it when ABD announced New Zealand. Crossing my fingers for y'all.


----------



## TravelJunkieHubby

With Canada this week cancelling cruises until 2022, has anyone that planned to do the Alaska Cruise ABD this summer heard anything?


----------



## sayhello

TravelJunkieHubby said:


> With Canada this week cancelling cruises until 2022, has anyone that planned to do the Alaska Cruise ABD this summer heard anything?


They sail out of Vancouver, so unless DCL re-routes the cruises out of Seattle, I don't see how any of them can sail.  But I would assume ABD would wait for DCL to cancel the cruises first.

Sayhello


----------



## TravelJunkieHubby

I don’t think they could sail from Seattle since DCL
doesn’t sail under the US flag.  Thought they needed to have at least one international port.


----------



## sayhello

TravelJunkieHubby said:


> I don’t think they could sail from Seattle since DCL
> doesn’t sail under the US flag.  Thought they needed to have at least one international port.


OK, I had to go back and refresh my memory of the PVSA (the  Passenger Vessel Services Act) and you're correct, even if they are closed-loop cruises (starting and ending in Seattle) they need a foreign port because you will be stopping at other USA ports during the trip.  So Seattle to Seattle is still not possible without Canada.  So I'm assuming all Alaska cruises would be cancelled for 2021.  I went on DCL's site, and there are no Alaska cruises listed.  Now I suppose they could all be sold out, but it's likely they've pulled the itineraries.  They've only officially cancelled cruises through April, with a few extras cancelled for May.

Now I *have* heard some rumors that some cruiselines are trying to get temporary exemptions to the PVSA due to the unusual circumstances of the pandemic, in which case they *could* run the cruises from Seattle, assuming they could secure space at the port.  I don't know that anyone has gotten one yet.  But that might be why ABD hasn't cancelled yet.

Sayhello


----------



## MKMK

CaliKris said:


> I agree with you and feel your pain.  We are scheduled for a May 2021 Egypt ABD.  While a few months ago we were 85% sure it would be a go, now we are just waiting for it to be cancelled and have already decided on a date in 2022.    We also have a September 2021 Portugal/Spain ABD and are very hopeful it will be a go.  It looks like Europe is further along with the vaccine than Egypt (Africa).  We are assuming we will be vacinated by then as well.



We are huge ABD fans, but since the virus, haven't been following ABD updates like I normally did... so this question is likely a bit behind.   We are scheduled for Egypt in early June 2021.    Received my final payment notice from ABD today.    Seems  like a hassle to send in our payment only to have them send it back again once it is cancelled ... or am I missing something?


----------



## Mathmagicland

MKMK said:


> We are huge ABD fans, but since the virus, haven't been following ABD updates like I normally did... so this question is likely a bit behind.   We are scheduled for Egypt in early June 2021.    Received my final payment notice from ABD today.    Seems  like a hassle to send in our payment only to have them send it back again once it is cancelled ... or am I missing something?


I guess it depends on a few things - 

-if for some reason the tour went forward, would you be OK with going? There’s always that chance, more likely as more folks get vaccinated and borders start to reopen. 
-when did you book & what are the cancel & deposit refund  provisions for your tour?  Those that booked before April or May (I think) do not get their deposit back unless cancelled within 14 days of booking, so the only way to get money back is to pay &  then hope Disney cancels.  .  For those who booked starting mid-May for sure, deposits are fully refundable up to PIF date. So you may not get your deposit back if you cancel before Disney does, but then it’s an anxious waiting game to see if they do cancel.  Hence, the first question of whether you’d be OK to go if they did not cancel.  Then you’d lose the entire payment rather than just the deposit.
-wait to see if Disney offers the option to park the deposit or book to another adventure - they’ve done that I think through April departure dates.  But the deposit would need to be used by a certain timeframe when they do make this offer.  It’s been a precursor to cancellations in the past, but again since we don’t know when travels may resume, can’t guarantee it means trips will be cancelled.   
-if your Egypt trip is already a rebook from something cancelled in 2020, then I’m not sure what your deposit refund parameters are, as I believe if you kept the same reservation number then it goes to the original booking terms. But I’m not sure what Disney has done with rebooking from virus-cancelled trips.


----------



## Grifdog22

Curious if anyone on the Boards is scheduled for the March 27, 2021 trip to Costa Rica that is still a go.  Since the USA will require a negative COVID test to get back in the country that is less than 3 days from departure back, I would be interested to hear how this is managed by ABD.  Everyone on the trip will have to have one of these - what arrangements are made?  I would expect this to apply to all other trips if they go, as I doubt the CDC will now take that requirement back. Please share what you have heard or know on this!


----------



## TravelJunkieHubby

Yes!  Ditto for anyone doing Arizona and Utah on March 15/24.  Curious how ABD does group travel within the country... socially distanced group dinners and bus rides?  Every family gets their own raft for kayaking?


----------



## sayhello

TravelJunkieHubby said:


> Yes!  Ditto for anyone doing Arizona and Utah on March 15/24.  Curious how ABD does group travel within the country... socially distanced group dinners and bus rides?  Every family gets their own raft for kayaking?


That's an interesting point.  I mean, you *are* outdoor, but you *have* to have at least one Guide from the rafting company on with you.  These companies would have to provide way more Guides and rafts if it is one raft per family! 

Masks are currently required in Phoenix, Sedona & the Grand Canyon Village area.  They don't appear to be required in Utah.  Who knows what ABD's policy will be?

And how they handle the motorcoaches and dining will be *very* interesting.

Sayhello


----------



## lpm23

sayhello said:


> That's an interesting point.  I mean, you *are* outdoor, but you *have* to have at least one Guide from the rafting company on with you.  These companies would have to provide way more Guides and rafts if it is one raft per family!
> 
> Masks are currently required in Phoenix, Sedona & the Grand Canyon Village area.  They don't appear to be required in Utah.  Who knows what ABD's policy will be?
> 
> And how they handle the motorcoaches and dining will be *very* interesting.
> 
> Sayhello


I think the biggest issue is the restaurants and bus. We traveled this summer and went rafting. You shared a raft but were in separate rows. You are outside so I think that is a lot lower risk than the bus etc. I know some companies were looking at doing assigned seats but unless the bus is half empty I don’t think many people would be comfortable on it. It’s all pretty depressing because having to stay separated by family really defeats the purpose of group travel.


----------



## sayhello

lpm23 said:


> It’s all pretty depressing because having to stay separated by family really defeats the purpose of group travel.


I totally agree with this!  That whole "ABD Family" feel may get lost.

Sayhello


----------



## lovetotravel

.


----------



## lpm23

Most places we have been this past year still do a buffet but they have servers who put the food on your plate.  you still walk down a buffet line but you don't touch anything. it actually works pretty well.


----------



## lovetotravel

.


----------



## TravelJunkieHubby

Grifdog22 said:


> Curious if anyone on the Boards is scheduled for the March 27, 2021 trip to Costa Rica that is still a go.  Since the USA will require a negative COVID test to get back in the country that is less than 3 days from departure back, I would be interested to hear how this is managed by ABD.  Everyone on the trip will have to have one of these - what arrangements are made?  I would expect this to apply to all other trips if they go, as I doubt the CDC will now take that requirement back. Please share what you have heard or know on this!


Looks like Costa Rica just got cancelled for next month


----------



## sayhello

TravelJunkieHubby said:


> Looks like Costa Rica just got cancelled for next month


So now it looks like the only ABD trip potentially still going in March is:

March 15: Arizona and Utah Adventures
I'm still interested to hear from anyone who makes it on that trip, how they handle the details.

Sayhello


----------



## kaseyC

Looks like ABD updated their Health and Safety protocols.  
https://www.adventuresbydisney.com/...U3qSs8wgtY2GQaJEzpeK18S-AVUxVGEqUaw7xG5tEWNZ-


----------



## AquaDame

kaseyC said:


> Looks like ABD updated their Health and Safety protocols.
> https://www.adventuresbydisney.com/...U3qSs8wgtY2GQaJEzpeK18S-AVUxVGEqUaw7xG5tEWNZ-



Language in there really makes it sound like they're gearing up..! Doesn't mean they ARE mind you, but it sounds positive for anyone hoping to go sooner rather than later.


----------



## ACDSNY

Impatiently waiting to see what happens to our Canadian Rockies trip this year.


----------



## WishUponAStarryNight

The guidelines aren’t unexpected, but if borders are closed, they don’t really matter.  I’m more concerned about how long ABD will wait to see if borders re-open before canceling.


----------



## bcwife76

ACDSNY said:


> Impatiently waiting to see what happens to our Canadian Rockies trip this year.


I hope they cancel on you with adequate time. I live in Vancouver BC and while the border closure is only extended month by month I would not expect our border to reopen before September at the earliest. Our vaccination roll out is not as efficient as the US and our gov't is now worried about a third wave of Covid due to the variants.


----------



## sayhello

kaseyC said:


> Looks like ABD updated their Health and Safety protocols.
> https://www.adventuresbydisney.com/...U3qSs8wgtY2GQaJEzpeK18S-AVUxVGEqUaw7xG5tEWNZ-


I understand and totally agree with the safety measures ABD has listed in this policy.  However, as a solo traveler, this has totally convinced me that unless I know ahead of time that there's someone's pod I will be included in with, I won't be traveling with ABD for a while.  Sitting by myself on the bus, eating by myself, doing activities by myself, etc., just kind of negates the whole reason I like to travel with ABD.   Depending on how long this lasts, I *may* change my mind (desperate times!), but right now, it doesn't feel worth the premium price.

That said, it's a really comprehensive policy, kudos to ABD.



bcwife76 said:


> I hope they cancel on you with adequate time. I live in Vancouver BC and while the border closure is only extended month by month I would not expect our border to reopen before September at the earliest. Our vaccination roll out is not as efficient as the US and our gov't is now worried about a third wave of Covid due to the variants.


Man, if your vaccination roll out is worse than ours, then that's BAD, because it's a mess here!

Sayhello


----------



## ACDSNY

bcwife76 said:


> I hope they cancel on you with adequate time. I live in Vancouver BC and while the border closure is only extended month by month I would not expect our border to reopen before September at the earliest. Our vaccination roll out is not as efficient as the US and our gov't is now worried about a third wave of Covid due to the variants.


I agree.  We're set for September, but I really don't expect the border to be open.  I'm not booking flights or anything until it looks like it will actually happen.


----------



## Mathmagicland

sayhello said:


> I understand and totally agree with the safety measures ABD has listed in this policy. However, as a solo traveler, this has totally convinced me that unless I know ahead of time that there's someone's pod I will be included in with, I won't be traveling with ABD for a while. Sitting by myself on the bus, eating by myself, doing activities by myself, etc., just kind of negates the whole reason I like to travel with ABD. Depending on how long this lasts, I *may* change my mind (desperate times!), but right now, it doesn't feel worth the premium price.
> 
> That said, it's a really comprehensive policy, kudos to ABD.


Well said and totally agree.  I am booked solo on the October New Zealand AbD, and now may have to rethink that one this year should the borders be open which is still an uncertainty as of now.  Don’t think it would be as much fun in my own travel pod.  

Maybe this is mostly for 2021 Adventures, with their revised cancel policy for trips only through March 2022?  Hopefully things will be a bit more normal next year.  

This also makes me wonder if group sizes will be smaller when travel initially resumes, due to these new health protocols.   Otherwise I see multiple busses & etc to allow for the required distancing.


----------



## Rapunzellover

sayhello said:


> I understand and totally agree with the safety measures ABD has listed in this policy.  However, as a solo traveler, this has totally convinced me that unless I know ahead of time that there's someone's pod I will be included in with, I won't be traveling with ABD for a while.  Sitting by myself on the bus, eating by myself, doing activities by myself, etc., just kind of negates the whole reason I like to travel with ABD.   Depending on how long this lasts, I *may* change my mind (desperate times!), but right now, it doesn't feel worth the premium price.



Solo travelers will need to coordinate,  I think, if the pod stuff lasts.  I'm probably going for Portugal May 2022, btw, if you're interested.   I know you were interested in that.

I'm booked for a domestic Tauck trip to New Orleans in September since I called off Portugal for this year.   ABD seems to have copied a lot of their policies.  I don't mind by myself in a Pod for a cheaper domestic trip, but not an expensive international one.


----------



## sayhello

Rapunzellover said:


> Solo travelers will need to coordinate,  I think, if the pod stuff lasts.  I'm probably going for Portugal May 2022, btw, if you're interested.   I know you were interested in that.
> 
> I'm booked for a domestic Tauck trip to New Orleans in September since I called off Portugal for this year.   ABD seems to have copied a lot of their policies.  I don't mind by myself in a Pod for a cheaper domestic trip, but not an expensive international one.


I'm going to PM you.  There's a good chance I actually would be interested in Portugal in May 2022.  We'll talk!  

Sayhello


----------



## Mathmagicland

Another random thought that’s been running through my brain since the new health info came out yesterday- how will pre-arrival days fit into these requirements or does this eliminate most of that. Some initial questions I’m thinking -

if traveling on your own prior to joining the AbD, trying to find the acceptable PCR testing site in a foreign country

if doing s cruise before, Disney or otherwise, how get tested.

or will the “travel within the previous 14 days” day before health assessment rule out pre-travel?

Will pre-nights are booked with Disney (on your own not a short escape) make any differences?  Your booking with AbD includes any pre-nights so does that constitute start of travel? As it does not say start of the adventure. 

What if two AbDs are booked back to back, what does that do for health requirements for the second one if you’ve been in the AbD bubble for the first one? 

*************
*Testing and Online Health Assessments*
Our updated approach emphasizes a combination of new protocols to promote health and safety throughout your trip, including testing and health assessments along the way.
Negative PCR COVID-19 Test
All Guests, Adventure Guides, drivers, experts and tour operators accompanying Guests in vehicles will be required to show proof of a negative PCR COVID-19 test before joining any trip. Tests must be taken within 5 days prior to the start of the trip. Results must be submitted to _Adventures by Disney_ within 24 hours prior to the start of the trip. COVID-19 testing is required by travelers, Adventure Guides, drivers, experts and tour operators even if they have been vaccinated.

Before Leaving Home – Online Health Assessment
All Guests, Adventure Guides and on-trip staff must complete an online health assessment—as directed by _Adventures by Disney_, currently to be conducted through a third party—within 24 hours of departure. If the Guest has a temperature of 100.4 or higher, answers “yes” to any symptoms on the health assessment or has close contact with an individual with suspected infection, it may result in their inability to embark on the trip. The health assessment will screen for:

Temperature of 100.4 or higher
COVID-19 symptoms: cough, shortness of breath or difficulty breathing, chills, muscle pain or body aches, new loss of taste or smell, sore throat, new onset of nausea, diarrhea or vomiting
Attendance at large gatherings within the previous 14 days
Travel within the previous 14 days
Diagnosis of COVID-19—or close contact with an individual diagnosed with COVID-19—in the previous 14 days without completing the required self-quarantine period
Arrival Day – Verbal Health Assessment
On arrival day, Guests will complete a private, verbal health assessment to screen for COVID-19 symptoms and a temperature of 100.4 or higher. For the duration of the trip, Guests will be required to check their temperatures and self-screen for COVID-19 symptoms daily. Should a Guest or traveler display COVID-19 symptoms or a temperature of 100.4 or higher, a telehealth medical consultation will be conducted to determine whether they can continue on the trip. Adventure Guides will include health and safety reminders specific to each day’s itinerary in daily briefings.


----------



## sayhello

Mathmagicland said:


> Another random thought that’s been running through my brain since the new health info came out yesterday- how will pre-arrival days fit into these requirements or does this eliminate most of that. Some initial questions I’m thinking -
> 
> if traveling on your own prior to joining the AbD, trying to find the acceptable PCR testing site in a foreign country
> 
> if doing s cruise before, Disney or otherwise, how get tested.
> 
> or will the “travel within the previous 14 days” day before health assessment rule out pre-travel?
> 
> Will pre-nights are booked with Disney (on your own not a short escape) make any differences?  Your booking with AbD includes any pre-nights so does that constitute start of travel? As it does not say start of the adventure.
> 
> What if two AbDs are booked back to back, what does that do for health requirements for the second one if you’ve been in the AbD bubble for the first one?
> 
> *************
> *Testing and Online Health Assessments*
> Our updated approach emphasizes a combination of new protocols to promote health and safety throughout your trip, including testing and health assessments along the way.
> Negative PCR COVID-19 Test
> All Guests, Adventure Guides, drivers, experts and tour operators accompanying Guests in vehicles will be required to show proof of a negative PCR COVID-19 test before joining any trip. Tests must be taken within 5 days prior to the start of the trip. Results must be submitted to _Adventures by Disney_ within 24 hours prior to the start of the trip. COVID-19 testing is required by travelers, Adventure Guides, drivers, experts and tour operators even if they have been vaccinated.
> 
> Before Leaving Home – Online Health Assessment
> All Guests, Adventure Guides and on-trip staff must complete an online health assessment—as directed by _Adventures by Disney_, currently to be conducted through a third party—within 24 hours of departure. If the Guest has a temperature of 100.4 or higher, answers “yes” to any symptoms on the health assessment or has close contact with an individual with suspected infection, it may result in their inability to embark on the trip. The health assessment will screen for:
> 
> Temperature of 100.4 or higher
> COVID-19 symptoms: cough, shortness of breath or difficulty breathing, chills, muscle pain or body aches, new loss of taste or smell, sore throat, new onset of nausea, diarrhea or vomiting
> Attendance at large gatherings within the previous 14 days
> Travel within the previous 14 days
> Diagnosis of COVID-19—or close contact with an individual diagnosed with COVID-19—in the previous 14 days without completing the required self-quarantine period
> Arrival Day – Verbal Health Assessment
> On arrival day, Guests will complete a private, verbal health assessment to screen for COVID-19 symptoms and a temperature of 100.4 or higher. For the duration of the trip, Guests will be required to check their temperatures and self-screen for COVID-19 symptoms daily. Should a Guest or traveler display COVID-19 symptoms or a temperature of 100.4 or higher, a telehealth medical consultation will be conducted to determine whether they can continue on the trip. Adventure Guides will include health and safety reminders specific to each day’s itinerary in daily briefings.


Those are *really* good questions.  

I *never* arrive the day a trip starts.  Just won't do it, too many issues involved with that (missing luggage, late flights, jet lag, etc) along with the fact that many ABDs don't do a lot in the arrival city.  ABD might have to think about offering more than one day of pre-nights on most of their trips.  

It's one thing to travel directly from home to the ABD.  It's another altogether when the different travel scenarios you list are involved.

Sayhello


----------



## lovetotravel

.


----------



## hilarys

sayhello said:


> Those are *really* good questions.
> 
> I *never* arrive the day a trip starts.  Just won't do it, too many issues involved with that (missing luggage, late flights, jet lag, etc) along with the fact that many ABDs don't do a lot in the arrival city.  ABD might have to think about offering more than one day of pre-nights on most of their trips.
> 
> It's one thing to travel directly from home to the ABD.  It's another altogether when the different travel scenarios you list are involved.
> 
> Sayhello


I agree these are really good questions.  I applaud ABD for coming up with a comprehensive plan and guidelines.  You can see they are really trying to get things going again and I assume maybe the first steps will be domestic (not Backstage Magic) trips.  However, even as a family I don't think I would do a trip with ABD under these guidelines unless we were doing a private adventure.  A huge part of ABD for us is getting to know other people and for the kids hanging out with other kids and the guides.  

I know it probably won't happen given their history, but I really hope they cancel my Rhine cruise before PIF in a couple of weeks.


----------



## Mathmagicland

lovetotravel said:


> Does anyone one how these apply to private adventures? In reality I would rather travel on our own and wait until all is back to normal before doing group travel again. Or until there is an easier process in place when vaccines are widely available.


 Not sure, that would be a good question for AbD.  However, it doesn’t say the Private adventures are excluded from any of them, so I’d guess it would.  The only part that would seem to be not applicable would be the pods, as you could be your own pod with the private adventure, but maybe if two or three families are traveling together they might use pods in some cases.


----------



## sayhello

Mathmagicland said:


> Not sure, that would be a good question for AbD.  However, it doesn’t say the Private adventures are excluded from any of them, so I’d guess it would.  The only part that would seem to be not applicable would be the pods, as you could be your own pod with the private adventure, but maybe if two or three families are traveling together they might use pods in some cases.


I agree.  All the stuff about testing and such would still be applicable, because you're still traveling somewhere, and interacting with your Adventure Guide, and any local Guides, and the people and other tourists around you, so I can't see ABD letting you start or continue a trip if you test positive for COVID-19.  So you'd need to go through all the same protocol to "prove" you are negative.  The only thing that maybe wouldn't apply is the pods part, because I would assume that you are, by default, all in a pod on a private trip.  (But then again, maybe not, if you got a large group together to do a private trip).

Sayhello


----------



## lovetotravel

.


----------



## lpm23

Tauck just cancelled all April trips which makes me think Disney isn’t far behind. FYI not posted on Tauck website.  They said they are calling guests before they post it.


----------



## Rapunzellover

lpm23 said:


> Tauck just cancelled all April trips which makes me think Disney isn’t far behind. FYI not posted on Tauck website.  They said they are calling guests before they post it.



Are you sure it's all?  Not just international? When I last talked to Tauck in Mid February (to book a September trip which I hope goes) they had a Winter in Wyoming trip running, and the agent said they're running whatever trips they can.  "If it's open, we're going" she said.

I wonder if that changed?  And if so, why?


----------



## TXTransplant

Nat Geo told me yesterday that all trips through the end of April have been cancelled.


----------



## lpm23

No all Tauck. She said there was or two specific trips still trying to go but everything else cancelled


----------



## Rapunzellover

lpm23 said:


> No all Tauck. She said there was or two specific trips still trying to go but everything else cancelled



Okay, this sounds like what I kinda thought-  not every everything canceled, but 97%.  They ran at least one Winter in Wyoming trip according to the woman I talked with, so I suppose that's one of the ones trying to go.  She made it sound like they were trying a few.  That seems in line with your information.


----------



## WishUponAStarryNight

lpm23 said:


> No all Tauck. She said there was or two specific trips still trying to go but everything else cancelled


Thanks. I was waiting for my April trip to be canceled. Haven’t heard from my TA yet, but glad to know it’s coming. Any incentives to rebook?


----------



## lpm23

WishUponAStarryNight said:


> Thanks. I was waiting for my April trip to be canceled. Haven’t heard from my TA yet, but glad to know it’s coming. Any incentives to rebook?


Yes we just got the call this afternoon. Sounds like they are working there way through the list. We got $250 per person if we moved it to another trip or let them put it in the travel wallet (which is basically just a credit for future use). We had only paid our deposit of $600 per person. so I thought that was a pretty good incentive to let them hold onto it.  I'm not sure if they offered more if they had more of your money.

Better than ABD which gave us nothing for all our trips cancelled in the past year. (which I found strange since Disney cruise gave us 25% extra)


----------



## WishUponAStarryNight

lpm23 said:


> Yes we just got the call this afternoon. Sounds like they are working there way through the list. We got $250 per person if we moved it to another trip or let them put it in the travel wallet (which is basically just a credit for future use). We had only paid our deposit of $600 per person. so I thought that was a pretty good incentive to let them hold onto it.  I'm not sure if they offered more if they had more of your money.
> 
> Better than ABD which gave us nothing for all our trips cancelled in the past year. (which I found strange since Disney cruise gave us 25% extra)


Thanks. We’ve paid only our deposit, too.  Not a bad incentive at all..


----------



## TravelJunkieHubby

https://www.usatoday.com/story/trav...ational-travel-ban-until-mid-june/6917876002/
Looks like more cancellations forthcoming...  Australia extending international ban until mid-June


----------



## laceltris3

So in my experience you got $250 if you were not PIF and $500 if you were PIF with Tauck. We had 3/5 of us PIF before our trip for last summer had PIF delayed, and then cancelled. I let them keep the $ and roll it to this summer (which we again rolled when we realized Europe wasn't going to happen for us this summer). I decided it was not worth it to give them several more thousands of dollars to get an additional $500 for the future. 

We are booked with TB for the Wyoming/S. Dakota "Cowboy Country" trip in June. PIF had been 60? days IIRC? They just notified us that PIF would be delayed to 30 days. I plan on going ahead and paying. I haven't booked flights yet, but I have already had my first dose of the vaccine and am hopeful that we will be able to go.


----------



## TravelJunkieHubby

Is anyone going or know someone going on the Arizona/Utah ABD next week?  Curious how the pre-departure procedures have been?  Hoping this is one small step back to normal


----------



## Mathmagicland

sharing FYI - got an email from AbD this morning re my mid-October trip. They’re adjusting the final PIF date to 65 days ahead of departure date, so not due until August for me.  Nice, as hopefully by then they’d know for sure whether it was happening or not.


----------



## Calfan

Mathmagicland said:


> sharing FYI - got an email from AbD this morning re my mid-October trip. They’re adjusting the final PIF date to 65 days ahead of departure date, so not due until August for me.  Nice, as hopefully by then they’d know for sure whether it was happening or not.



Received a similar email this morning with regard to our July Rhine River cruise.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Mathmagicland said:


> sharing FYI - got an email from AbD this morning re my mid-October trip. They’re adjusting the final PIF date to 65 days ahead of departure date, so not due until August for me.  Nice, as hopefully by then they’d know for sure whether it was happening or not.


I got the same e-mail for our NZ ABD scheduled for March, 2022. Hopefully our trip goes -- I booked our airfare yesterday! Though if we have to wear masks I will be cancelling and looking to instead to book a private trip (assuming that NZ is open for tourism). Ds and I will both have been fully vaccinated by then.


----------



## sayhello

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I got the same e-mail for our NZ ABD scheduled for March, 2022. Hopefully our trip goes -- I booked our airfare yesterday! Though if we have to wear masks I will be cancelling and looking to instead to book a private trip (assuming that NZ is open for tourism). Ds and I will both have been fully vaccinated by then.


Although what I would think that you mean is "assuming that NZ is open for tourism and not requiring masks in public places."  ABD is not the only one requiring masks during these trips.  Just because you are taking a private trip does not mean you won't have to wear a mask around your private guide or other tourists you encounter, and the workers at the places you go, etc.  New Zealand has been one of the most fiercely protective countries out there, and I don't see that changing any time soon.

Sayhello


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Mathmagicland said:


> sharing FYI - got an email from AbD this morning re my mid-October trip. They’re adjusting the final PIF date to 65 days ahead of departure date, so not due until August for me.  Nice, as hopefully by then they’d know for sure whether it was happening or not.





Calfan said:


> Received a similar email this morning with regard to our July Rhine River cruise.


Me, too. @Mathmagicland are we on the same trip? Oct. 14 Rhine?


----------



## notaprincess

I could live with masks if everything else was 'normal'


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

sayhello said:


> Although what I would think that you mean is "assuming that NZ is open for tourism and not requiring masks in public places."  ABD is not the only one requiring masks during these trips.  Just because you are taking a private trip does not mean you won't have to wear a mask around your private guide or other tourists you encounter, and the workers at the places you go, etc.  New Zealand has been one of the most fiercely protective countries out there, and I don't see that changing any time soon.
> 
> Sayhello


Good point! That is indeed what I meant. Right now I am just hoping that our trip is a go and that we won't have to wear masks because I am really, really looking forward to this brand new ABD -- the itinerary looks amazing  .


----------



## Grifdog22

We just hit strike four.  When ABD rolled out the (now totally cancelled and removed) river cruise on the Rhone River, we booked the inaugural trip.  Cancelled.  Rescheduled. Cancelled. Rescheduled.  All Rhone trips cancelled.  AMA waterways then offered the cancelled trip dates on their roster.  We booked the May trip that was exactly a year after the first attempt.  Today, AMA cancelled all trips through the end of May.  I don't think we will be trying this again!  This trip was not meant to be.  It doesn't look like this impacts ABD as they don't currently show any May trips operating on river cruises.    So we decided to book the AutoTrain with a bedroom and use the vacation time to tour the backroads of Florida and the keys in May with our use or lose vacation time.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Grifdog22 said:


> We just hit strike four.  When ABD rolled out the (now totally cancelled and removed) river cruise on the Rhone River, we booked the inaugural trip.  Cancelled.  Rescheduled. Cancelled. Rescheduled.  All Rhone trips cancelled.  AMA waterways then offered the cancelled trip dates on their roster.  We booked the May trip that was exactly a year after the first attempt.  Today, AMA cancelled all trips through the end of May.  I don't think we will be trying this again!  This trip was not meant to be.  It doesn't look like this impacts ABD as they don't currently show any May trips operating on river cruises.    So we decided to book the AutoTrain with a bedroom and use the vacation time to tour the backroads of Florida and the keys in May with our use or lose vacation time.


So sorry to hear this! I suspect river cruises won't go until the late summer at the earliest. Europe is still worrying about a 4th wave and they haven't had the vaccine rollout like we have. It's going to be some time before they open to international travelers. But ABD will wait as long as possible to cancel and hold on to the money.


----------



## sayhello

Grifdog22 said:


> We just hit strike four.  When ABD rolled out the (now totally cancelled and removed) river cruise on the Rhone River, we booked the inaugural trip.  Cancelled.  Rescheduled. Cancelled. Rescheduled.  All Rhone trips cancelled.  AMA waterways then offered the cancelled trip dates on their roster.  We booked the May trip that was exactly a year after the first attempt.  Today, AMA cancelled all trips through the end of May.  I don't think we will be trying this again!  This trip was not meant to be.  It doesn't look like this impacts ABD as they don't currently show any May trips operating on river cruises.    So we decided to book the AutoTrain with a bedroom and use the vacation time to tour the backroads of Florida and the keys in May with our use or lose vacation time.


SO sorry to hear this.    A year ago, who imagined it would be 2021 and we'd still have no idea when Europe will re-open to American tourists?  I'm so sad you two won't be able to do the Rhone.  Maybe someday down the road.   Enjoy the Keys!

Sayhello


----------



## Mathmagicland

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> Me, too. @Mathmagicland are we on the same trip? Oct. 14 Rhine?


No,  I am Oct 18 New Zealand....which I don’t expect to happen as NZ has said they will likely keep borders closed until 2022.  Unless the vaccine changes anything there & they start to open a bit earlier.


----------



## LuckyBelle1

Be sure to plan a day at Dry Tortugas National Park in the Keys.   Not easy to get to (boat or seaplane), but an unbelievably beautiful and fascinating place.


----------



## nerak

Technical question, when they say "within 5 days" for a covid test, do you count the day of travel? Say my trip starts on a Sunday, does the 5 days prior start Tuesday or on Wednesday? Seems like a silly question but it does make a bit of difference when trying to figure out the timing of getting the test, getting the results, etc when you want to arrive a few days before the actual trip start date.


----------



## sayhello

nerak said:


> Technical question, when they say "within 5 days" for a covid test, do you count the day of travel? Say my trip starts on a Sunday, does the 5 days prior start Tuesday or on Wednesday? Seems like a silly question but it does make a bit of difference when trying to figure out the timing of getting the test, getting the results, etc when you want to arrive a few days before the actual trip start date.


I don't think any of us know that yet.  That would be a question for ABD.

Sayhello


----------



## Mathmagicland

Posting an FYI for anyone on the fence or considering an ABD US-based adventures this summer - I was on the phone with AbD yesterday (Thursday) and the CM mentioned the recent Arizona/Utah adventure which went mid-March and just completed.  She said it went very well. She also said their summer US adventures are filling quickly with many waitkist or not too many spots left.


----------



## TravelJunkieHubby

It looks like the first international trip will be Costa RIca in two weeks... if anyone on this thread hears how it goes please let us know.


----------



## travelmomof3

LuckyBelle1 said:


> Be sure to plan a day at Dry Tortugas National Park in the Keys.   Not easy to get to (boat or seaplane), but an unbelievably beautiful and fascinating place.


I agree!  We visited Key West last fall and loved our day trip to Dry Tortugas.  Be warned if you get seasick, though - many people were really sick on the way back but the crew handles it REALLY well.  If possible, opt for the seaplane and avoid the waves!


----------



## Grifdog22

travelmomof3 said:


> I agree!  We visited Key West last fall and loved our day trip to Dry Tortugas.  Be warned if you get seasick, though - many people were really sick on the way back but the crew handles it REALLY well.  If possible, opt for the seaplane and avoid the waves!


Thank you and Lucky Belle for the recommendation - we plan on spending a day there.  Really appreciate the idea.


----------



## Lulu27

travelmomof3 said:


> I agree!  We visited Key West last fall and loved our day trip to Dry Tortugas.  Be warned if you get seasick, though - many people were really sick on the way back but the crew handles it REALLY well.  If possible, opt for the seaplane and avoid the waves!


Ditto on Dry Tortugas! We did the seaplane - it was a great experience!


----------



## Grifdog22

Lulu27 said:


> Ditto on Dry Tortugas! We did the seaplane - it was a great experience!


I cannot thank these Boards enough over the years for great guidance and recommendations.  Went to book the Dry Tortugas this morning for a midweek visit in May.  Booked up!  Also had a small charter sailboat with Captain and Mate for 48 hours at sea planned.  Booked up!  Made some additional adjustments and was able to get both by starting a day earlier. And my wife said we had plenty of time to decide.....um, apparently not.


----------



## TravelJunkieHubby

As cancellations for some/many/most of the summer 2021 adventures are rolling out, I’m curious what others think: which international trips trips do you think are most likely to go in 2022?  

All of them?
Land based single country only?  
Just the countries who will be able to do a quick vaccine roll out?

We are hoping to do ABD Japan sometime in 2022 but will slower vaccine roll out and public sentiment there being what it is, I’m thinking there maybe more cancellations in 2022.

Hopefully I’m wrong


----------



## DJJimmy9

TravelJunkieHubby said:


> We are hoping to do ABD Japan sometime in 2022 but will slower vaccine roll out and public sentiment there being what it is, I’m thinking there maybe more cancellations in 2022.



I just booked Japan for August, 2022.  No one can predict the future but I’m hopeful things will open up by then.  Vaccines should be plentiful by then in modern countries.  I also think the Olympics will be a big test for Japan this summer.  Even though international spectators will not be there, just having an event like that occur will hopefully be a big boost in confidence.  Of course, if there are major outbreaks during the Olympics it will be probably have the opposite effect.  Who knows!


----------



## TravelJunkieHubby

Yesterday we booked Japan for July 2022 and New Zealand for December 2022... half-way expecting one or both of these may not go, so we are mentally prepared to have back up plans.  

We asked our vactionista how the "group bonding" that we have become accustomed to with ABD is able to happen with social distancing.  FWIW she said so far the Costa Rica trip in progress has gotten good feedback for balancing the two.  She also mentioned that if 2 bookings want to travel together as a pod they are making note of that.  I'll be curious to hear how this plays out in other countries/urban destinations.

Also - New Zealand would be our family's first time trying an Adventure over the holidays... my oldest will be in high school by then and I was curious how others with teenagers have found traveling internationally over the holidays?  Stress around final exams nowadays seems much more intense than when I grew up.


----------



## DjmNash

TravelJunkieHubby said:


> Yesterday we booked Japan for July 2022 and New Zealand for December 2022... half-way expecting one or both of these may not go, so we are mentally prepared to have back up plans.
> 
> We asked our vactionista how the "group bonding" that we have become accustomed to with ABD is able to happen with social distancing.  FWIW she said so far the Costa Rica trip in progress has gotten good feedback for balancing the two.  She also mentioned that if 2 bookings want to travel together as a pod they are making note of that.  I'll be curious to hear how this plays out in other countries/urban destinations.
> 
> Also - New Zealand would be our family's first time trying an Adventure over the holidays... my oldest will be in high school by then and I was curious how others with teenagers have found traveling internationally over the holidays?  Stress around final exams nowadays seems much more intense than when I grew up.




Hi! We are hoping to get the New Zealand December 2022 trip. Put in our request last night. Our son will be 14 by then. We have to do late December because of school and exams. It's just too hard to take the kids out of school and try to catch up on school work; but that might just be our kids. This will be our first ABD. Really hoping Covid-19 is under control and doesn't mess up this amazing sounding trip (if we got registered in time).


----------



## sayhello

DjmNash said:


> Hi! We are hoping to get the New Zealand December 2022 trip. Put in our request last night. Our son will be 14 by then. We have to do late December because of school and exams. It's just too hard to take the kids out of school and try to catch up on school work; but that might just be our kids. This will be our first ABD. Really hoping Covid-19 is under control and doesn't mess up this amazing sounding trip (if we got registered in time).


Do you mean that you put in a request with your Travel Agent?  Or are you on a waiting list?

Sayhello


----------



## DjmNash

sayhello said:


> Do you mean that you put in a request with your Travel Agent?  Or are you on a waiting list?
> 
> Sayhello


Put in our request with our travel agent. Waiting to hear back from her to see if we got it or if it's already sold out


----------



## sayhello

DjmNash said:


> Put in our request with our travel agent. Waiting to hear back from her to see if we got it or if it's already sold out


Fingers and toes crossed for you!

Sayhello


----------



## TXAKDisneyFan

DjmNash said:


> Hi! We are hoping to get the New Zealand December 2022 trip. Put in our request last night. Our son will be 14 by then. We have to do late December because of school and exams. It's just too hard to take the kids out of school and try to catch up on school work; but that might just be our kids. This will be our first ABD. Really hoping Covid-19 is under control and doesn't mess up this amazing sounding trip (if we got registered in time).


Your son (and you) will love NZ! We spent a couple weeks there (on our own, not on a tour) and it's amazing.


----------



## DjmNash

We got New Zealand for December 2022!!!!!!! So excited. Now to get all our paperwork in order.


----------



## tink1970

TravelJunkieHubby said:


> Also - New Zealand would be our family's first time trying an Adventure over the holidays... my oldest will be in high school by then and I was curious how others with teenagers have found traveling internationally over the holidays? Stress around final exams nowadays seems much more intense than when I grew up.



Congrats! We flew back from NZ in March 2020...so I've been relatively recently lol and enjoyed it. The ABD sounds like a great trip!

We took DD on one ABD over Christmas holidays when she was a junior-she worked during the entire trip. Disclaimer-she was in IB and the junior year is the most challenging, time management and workload wise so it was an odd situation. I was so happy we had strong internet connections for her to knock out her research/assignments. Because of that, I decided we wouldn't do an ABD her senior year Christmas and of course her workload wasn't as intense so live and learn. I'd say ask parents of students older than yours to try to gauge how many (if any) assignments are over the holidays and when semester exams are scheduled. Of course, the flights to and from NZ are nice and long and provide good study opportunities.

It sounds like a memorable trip and definitely something fun to anticipate!


----------



## TravelJunkieHubby

Just pulling up this thread again... are there any Adventures outside of the US that are definitely happening in June or July?  Just Costa Rica?  If so please share details on how it goes.  Thanks.


----------



## Skylarr29

TravelJunkieHubby said:


> Just pulling up this thread again... are there any Adventures outside of the US that are definitely happening in June or July?  Just Costa Rica?  If so please share details on how it goes.  Thanks.



Costa Rica has also been cancelled.


----------



## TravelJunkieHubby

I see Costa Rica dates for this July listed on ABD  - are people anticipating these to be cancelled?


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

tink1970 said:


> Congrats! We flew back from NZ in March 2020...so I've been relatively recently lol and enjoyed it. The ABD sounds like a great trip!
> 
> We took DD on one ABD over Christmas holidays when she was a junior-she worked during the entire trip. Disclaimer-she was in IB and the junior year is the most challenging, time management and workload wise so it was an odd situation. I was so happy we had strong internet connections for her to knock out her research/assignments. Because of that, I decided we wouldn't do an ABD her senior year Christmas and of course her workload wasn't as intense so live and learn. I'd say ask parents of students older than yours to try to gauge how many (if any) assignments are over the holidays and when semester exams are scheduled. Of course, the flights to and from NZ are nice and long and provide good study opportunities.
> 
> It sounds like a memorable trip and definitely something fun to anticipate!


Do you have any suggestions for pre-ABD day trips in Auckland and post-ABD in Queenstown? We will have 2 days without ABD in each city. I definitely want to visit Hoboton, which I believe is a full day trip, which will leave us the first day of the ABD to have an adventure in Auckland! One of the post-days I want to go on a day trip to Milford Sound (also a full day trip). Looking for things to do on the remaining days! I am partial to active outings (zip lining, rock climbing, hiking, biking, etc.).

I have already booked almost all of our flights (waiting to book first class tickets home on Etihad). We fly from London to Mebourne on British Air (first class) and Cathay Pacific (business class -- we will spend a week in London before the trip), Melbourne to Auckland, Queenstown to Brisbane and Brisbane to Sydney (all Virgin Air business class) before returning home! Quite an adventure and we are super excited for this trip! All flights were / are booked on points!


----------



## TravelJunkieHubby

Did any ABD trips happen outside the US in July? We are supposed to do Japan in July 2022 but who knows if that will happen


----------



## sayhello

TravelJunkieHubby said:


> Did any ABD trips happen outside the US in July? We are supposed to do Japan in July 2022 but who knows if that will happen


I believe at least one Iceland trip went.  But that's the only one I'm aware of.

*ETA:  *Oh, I forgot!  There's a Rhine River cruise going on right now, also!

Sayhello


----------



## disneyholic family

sayhello said:


> I believe at least one Iceland trip went.  But that's the only one I'm aware of.
> 
> *ETA:  *Oh, I forgot!  There's a Rhine River cruise going on right now, also!
> 
> Sayhello



you're kidding
so do the americans returning from europe have to quarantine?


----------



## BadPinkTink

disneyholic family said:


> so do the americans returning from europe have to quarantine?



Americans are travelling all over Europe right now and they do not have to quarantine  on return to USA. Its one of the things Ursula von der Leyen  President of the European Commission is not happy about, that Americans can come to Europe but Europeans are still banned from USA.


----------



## disneyholic family

BadPinkTink said:


> Americans are travelling all over Europe right now and they do not have to quarantine  on return to USA. Its one of the things Ursula von der Leyen  President of the European Commission is not happy about, that Americans can come to Europe but Europeans are still banned from USA.



the inconsistency is so frustrating!!


----------



## Birdie dog

TravelJunkieHubby said:


> Did any ABD trips happen outside the US in July? We are supposed to do Japan in July 2022 but who knows if that will happen


It hasn't happened yet, but our Italy and Switzerland trip for September 9th is confirmed.


----------



## sayhello

disneyholic family said:


> you're kidding
> so do the americans returning from europe have to quarantine?


They don't have to quarantine, but they *do* need to produce a negative COVID-19 test within the prior 72 hours to be able to get on the plane to return to the US.

From the CDC site (bolding theirs):



> *If you plan to travel internationally, you will need to get tested no more than 3 days before you travel by air into the United States (US) and show your negative result to the airline before you board your flight, or be prepared to show documentation of recovery (proof of a recent positive viral test and a letter from your healthcare provider or a public health official stating that you were cleared to travel).*



ABD helps facilitate this, but the cost is on the travelers.

Sayhello


----------



## TravelJunkieHubby

Just bringing this thread back up to the top to see if anyone knows whether land-based adventures are resuming soon?


----------



## Magnum_PI

sayhello said:


> They don't have to quarantine, but they *do* need to produce a negative COVID-19 test within the prior 72 hours to be able to get on the plane to return to the US.
> 
> From the CDC site (bolding theirs):
> 
> 
> 
> ABD helps facilitate this, but the cost is on the travelers.
> 
> Sayhello



Does anyone know what ABD's current policy is for what happens if someone tests positive on the trip before their return flight and cannot fly back to the US? Do they just leave you there to do your quarantine + you're on your own to rebook flights home? I should call and ask when I get time...


----------



## sayhello

TravelJunkieHubby said:


> Just bringing this thread back up to the top to see if anyone knows whether land-based adventures are resuming soon?


A few here and there, mostly domestic, but a few international.  But nothing consistent yet.


Magnum_PI said:


> Does anyone know what ABD's current policy is for what happens if someone tests positive on the trip before their return flight and cannot fly back to the US? Do they just leave you there to do your quarantine + you're on your own to rebook flights home? I should call and ask when I get time...


This possibility is one of the things currently keeping me from booking anything international.  

Sayhello


----------



## Woodview

You know there are more  International  Travel  Co.out there   .....  IF you wish to travel to Europe

      You might have to make your way to  Europe  to start      But  ask anyway,

    Look up   Trailfinders      Phone Cork Office ( Ireland )   + 353  21 464 8800
                                                       Dublin   + 353 1 677 7888

        Travel via Ireland  which ( as you All Know ) is still in the EU.  ( Europe )
            So all prices will be in  Euros  €     

          Going through   U.K     ( London )    PRICES  will be in   Pounds  Sterling   and is  Outside the   E.U.


----------



## CaliKris

Magnum_PI said:


> Does anyone know what ABD's current policy is for what happens if someone tests positive on the trip before their return flight and cannot fly back to the US? Do they just leave you there to do your quarantine + you're on your own to rebook flights home? I should call and ask when I get time...


I don't know ABD's official policy, but when we were in Spain and Portugal in September we were told if you test positive you are at the mercy of that country's government.  So whatever their quarantine and  COVID rules are, you must follow.  At this time, you must have a negative COVID test to return to the US.  If one of us had tested positive, we would have had to quarantine at our hotel (costly) for 10 days and then present a negative COVID test after that in order to be able to return to the US.  It stressed me out (packed extra meds etc. just in case) but it ended up being totally worth the risk.  I might say otherwise if one of us had tested positive.

We booked our air on our own (not through out travel company), so I am sure we would have had to rebook our own flights after testing negative.


----------



## emilymad

CaliKris said:


> I don't know ABD's official policy, but when we were in Spain and Portugal in September we were told if you test positive you are at the mercy of that country's government.  So whatever their quarantine and  COVID rules are, you must follow.  At this time, you must have a negative COVID test to return to the US.  If one of us had tested positive, we would have had to quarantine at our hotel (costly) for 10 days and then present a negative COVID test after that in order to be able to return to the US.  It stressed me out (packed extra meds etc. just in case) but it ended up being totally worth the risk.  I might say otherwise if one of us had tested positive.
> 
> We booked our air on our own (not through out travel company), so I am sure we would have had to rebook our own flights after testing negative.



Would travel insurance help in the case of having to be quarantined or does it really depend on the country?  I have been trying to figure this out but with each country having their own rules it is very confusing.


----------



## sayhello

emilymad said:


> Would travel insurance help in the case of having to be quarantined or does it really depend on the country?  I have been trying to figure this out but with each country having their own rules it is very confusing.


It depends on the policy.  If you buy a policy where COVID-19 is covered as an illness (more and more do this) then they should cover it like any illness/interrupted trip.  Which in most cases means they'd cover re-booking your flight home, and any medical/housing expenses while you are sick/recovering.  Although there might be a daily maximum covered, and perhaps a max number of days.  But I would definitely start with one of the insurance sites like insure my trip and call them, and walk through all the policies and what they do and don't cover.  It REALLY depends on not only the insurance company, but the individual policies as to how they handle it.

But travel insurance will not help you get out of any of it.  It will, if you get the right policy, pay for the expenses, and if the policy has a concierge service (MANY do) then they can hopefully help you navigate setting everything up.  But that also depends on the country's requirements (some countries have very specific requirements for quarantine).  Insurance can't change any of that.

Sayhello


----------



## CaliKris

sayhello said:


> It depends on the policy.  If you buy a policy where COVID-19 is covered as an illness (more and more do this) then they should cover it like any illness/interrupted trip.  Which in most cases means they'd cover re-booking your flight home, and any medical/housing expenses while you are sick/recovering.  Although there might be a daily maximum covered, and perhaps a max number of days.  But I would definitely start with one of the insurance sites like insure my trip and call them, and walk through all the policies and what they do and don't cover.  It REALLY depends on not only the insurance company, but the individual policies as to how they handle it.
> 
> But travel insurance will not help you get out of any of it.  It will, if you get the right policy, pay for the expenses, and if the policy has a concierge service (MANY do) then they can hopefully help you navigate setting everything up.  But that also depends on the country's requirements (some countries have very specific requirements for quarantine).  Insurance can't change any of that.
> 
> Sayhello


Exactly!  We did have travel insurance that covered COVID and quarantine plus trip interruption, etc.  However, the amount per day was very low ($100/day for quarantine), so you do really need to know the specifics of your policy.  My husband did have a dental issue in Spain which would have been fully covered.  Thankfully, he was able to wait until we got home (he really wanted to go to his own dentist), but it is always a good idea to have travel insurance.


----------



## sayhello

CaliKris said:


> Exactly!  We did have travel insurance that covered COVID and quarantine plus trip interruption, etc.  However, the amount per day was very low ($100/day for quarantine), so you do really need to know the specifics of your policy.  My husband did have a dental issue in Spain which would have been fully covered.  Thankfully, he was able to wait until we got home (he really wanted to go to his own dentist), but it is always a good idea to have travel insurance.


I couldn't agree more!

Sayhello


----------



## sayhello

So I read on fb that the Jan 26 South Africa trip has been cancelled.  Can't say I'm surprised at this point.  

Sayhello


----------



## Mathmagicland

sayhello said:


> So I read on fb that the Jan 26 South Africa trip has been cancelled.  Can't say I'm surprised at this point.
> 
> Sayhello


I was wondering about that, with the new variant news out of Southern Africa these past couple of days.


----------



## TravelJunkieHubby

Yes - as much as we all want to get back to international travel, it seems like the current state of things only allows for international travel if your family has a ton of flexibility and patience


----------



## CaliKris

sayhello said:


> So I read on fb that the Jan 26 South Africa trip has been cancelled.  Can't say I'm surprised at this point.
> 
> Sayhello


South Africa has been upgraded to Level 4 -do not travel- by the state department and ABD will not travel to Level 4 countries.

Egypt is currently at Level 3.  Our Egypt ABD is in February 2022.  Just booked our air through ABD so at least we will get refunded should they cancel.  It is really hard to get excited for a trip these days when there is no certainty it will really happen.


----------



## sayhello

TravelJunkieHubby said:


> Yes - as much as we all want to get back to international travel, it seems like the current state of things only allows for international travel if your family has a ton of flexibility and patience


And nerves of steel!



CaliKris said:


> South Africa has been upgraded to Level 4 -do not travel- by the state department and ABD will not travel to Level 4 countries.
> 
> Egypt is currently at Level 3.  Our Egypt ABD is in February 2022.  Just booked our air through ABD so at least we will get refunded should they cancel.  It is really hard to get excited for a trip these days when there is no certainty it will really happen.


It *is* hard to get excited, and honestly, for me, it's hard to even book.  I recently retired, and I was supposed to be traveling *more* now.  It's really sad for me that I barely feel comfortable traveling domestically.  And it's just as much from the uncertainty as it is from any COVID fears.  I know it's first world problems, but it's still a disappointment, and a loss of a big part of who I am.

Sayhello


----------



## CaliKris

sayhello said:


> And nerves of steel!
> 
> 
> It *is* hard to get excited, and honestly, for me, it's hard to even book.  I recently retired, and I was supposed to be traveling *more* now.  It's really sad for me that I barely feel comfortable traveling domestically.  And it's just as much from the uncertainty as it is from any COVID fears.  I know it's first world problems, but it's still a disappointment, and a loss of a big part of who I am.
> 
> Sayhello


I completely resonate with this!  We retired in 2020 so we could travel.  I guess the joke is on us!  Not a funny one, though.  

I get it.  I love everything about travel (from the day we book, to all the planning and anticipation, taking the trip, sharing our love of travel with friends, making travel photo books, dreaming of where to go next, the whole process).  We don't value "stuff" as much as we value our memories and experiences.  I am worried that the travel process has been changed forever much like after 911.  Hopefully, you will be able to resume your international travels soon!


----------



## Mathmagicland

sayhello said:


> And nerves of steel!
> 
> 
> It *is* hard to get excited, and honestly, for me, it's hard to even book.  I recently retired, and I was supposed to be traveling *more* now.  It's really sad for me that I barely feel comfortable traveling domestically.  And it's just as much from the uncertainty as it is from any COVID fears.  I know it's first world problems, but it's still a disappointment, and a loss of a big part of who I am.
> 
> Sayhello





CaliKris said:


> I completely resonate with this!  We retired in 2020 so we could travel.  I guess the joke is on us!  Not a funny one, though.
> 
> I get it.  I love everything about travel (from the day we book, to all the planning and anticipation, taking the trip, sharing our love of travel with friends, making travel photo books, dreaming of where to go next, the whole process).  We don't value "stuff" as much as we value our memories and experiences.  I am worried that the travel process has been changed forever much like after 911.  Hopefully, you will be able to resume your international travels soon!


Totally agree with you both.  As another recent retiree who worked to be able to buy plane tickets (I’ve had this magnet on my fridge “forever” as a reminder of my reward for working all those years)  it does take a a lot of adjustment to today’s new travel normal of more uncertainty and less overall anticipation excitement to minimize possible disappointment if something cancels.  

i seem to be giving up the joys of long-range anticipation and planning for what feels more like last minute trips (to me, anyway) that I’m more certain or confident will happen but scramble more to pull together. The trade-off is starting some travels again that are trips I feel safe in taking. It has only been two non-family visit trips thus far this year, but it’s baby steps towards getting out into the world again. And mentally that is a wonderful feeling!  I still have many trips I want to take but don’t feel comfortable booking yet.


----------



## sayhello

Mathmagicland said:


> Totally agree with you both.  As another recent retiree who worked to be able to buy plane tickets (I’ve had this magnet on my fridge “forever” as a reminder of my reward for working all those years)  it does take a a lot of adjustment to today’s new travel normal of more uncertainty and less overall anticipation excitement to minimize possible disappointment if something cancels.
> 
> i seem to be giving up the joys of long-range anticipation and planning for what feels more like last minute trips (to me, anyway) that I’m more certain or confident will happen but scramble more to pull together. The trade-off is starting some travels again that are trips I feel safe in taking. It has only been two non-family visit trips thus far this year, but it’s baby steps towards getting out into the world again. And mentally that is a wonderful feeling!  I still have many trips I want to take but don’t feel comfortable booking yet.
> 
> View attachment 626596


Exactly!  So far, I've managed one trip.  I'm toying with a second trip, but just not sure where or when.  Probably not until after the holidays, early 2022, most likely.  And yes, probably pretty last-minute plans.  We shall see.  I get so jealous of people I see traveling, and start to think about planning a trip, but when I get to the actual details of it, I'm just not ready yet.  We shall see!  Hopefully I feel more courageous soon!



CaliKris said:


> I completely resonate with this!  We retired in 2020 so we could travel.  I guess the joke is on us!  Not a funny one, though.
> 
> I get it.  I love everything about travel (from the day we book, to all the planning and anticipation, taking the trip, sharing our love of travel with friends, making travel photo books, dreaming of where to go next, the whole process).  We don't value "stuff" as much as we value our memories and experiences.  I am worried that the travel process has been changed forever much like after 911.  Hopefully, you will be able to resume your international travels soon!


I love everything about travel too [except for a) packing, b) getting to the airport and c) plane travel - all necessary evils to be able to enjoy the rest of travel!]  I rarely buy myself things for my Birthday, but will totally buy myself a trip!  Or two!  I know I did not feel comfortable on the flights to Las Vegas/back from Albuquerque.  But I *was* able to tolerate them.  It's just going to take me a while to work myself back up to doing it again.

Sayhello


----------



## Magnum_PI

CaliKris said:


> South Africa has been upgraded to Level 4 -do not travel- by the state department and ABD will not travel to Level 4 countries.
> 
> Egypt is currently at Level 3.  Our Egypt ABD is in February 2022.  Just booked our air through ABD so at least we will get refunded should they cancel.  It is really hard to get excited for a trip these days when there is no certainty it will really happen.



We’ve got our airfare for Egypt as well, and planning to PIF (despite my anxiety lol). I was originally so optimistic about this trip after the October trips went, but now I’m wondering if we’ll end up cancelled again. Guess we’ll just have to wait and find out!


----------



## Magnum_PI

CaliKris said:


> South Africa has been upgraded to Level 4 -do not travel- by the state department and ABD will not travel to Level 4 countries.
> 
> Egypt is currently at Level 3.  Our Egypt ABD is in February 2022.  Just booked our air through ABD so at least we will get refunded should they cancel.  It is really hard to get excited for a trip these days when there is no certainty it will really happen.



Also, this reminded me - does anyone know if ABD's decisions are driven by "Level 4" per the State Department or the CDC's covid advisory levels? Or perhaps both/either?


----------



## sayhello

Magnum_PI said:


> Also, this reminded me - does anyone know if ABD's decisions are driven by "Level 4" per the State Department or the CDC's covid advisory levels? Or perhaps both/either?


As far as I know, it's the State Department's travel advisory levels.  Does the CDC do advisory levels?

Sayhello


----------



## Magnum_PI

sayhello said:


> As far as I know, it's the State Department's travel advisory levels.  Does the CDC do advisory levels?
> 
> Sayhello



They do! Although it's really more of a recommendation that's specifically related to the destination's covid levels. (e.g., Egypt was at Level 2 for kind of a long time on this list, but went up to level 3 around a month ago IIRC)

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/noticescovid19
There seems to be some strong overlap between that Level 4 list and the State Department's list, although I haven't gone and systematically checked to see if every CDC Level 4 is on the State Department's Level 4 too.


----------



## Kit Jackson

sayhello said:


> It *is* hard to get excited, and honestly, for me, it's hard to even book.  I recently retired, and I was supposed to be traveling *more* now.  It's really sad for me that I barely feel comfortable traveling domestically.  And it's just as much from the uncertainty as it is from any COVID fears.  I know it's first world problems, but it's still a disappointment, and a loss of a big part of who I am.
> 
> Sayhello



I think it's possible to be thankful for everything you have and also be dissapointed and a little bit upset that COVID has forced you to change or rethink your travel plans.


----------



## TravelJunkieHubby

Has anyone heard if ABD will release 2023 River cruise itineraries in January 2022 like past years?  We have a placeholder deposit and I’m wondering if ABD will extend the date we have to pick something by.


----------



## sayhello

TravelJunkieHubby said:


> Has anyone heard if ABD will release 2023 River cruise itineraries in January 2022 like past years?  We have a placeholder deposit and I’m wondering if ABD will extend the date we have to pick something by.


ABD currently has 2022 River Cruises on sale if you book between now and the end of February.


> 2022 Summer River Cruise Offer: Save on Select Summer Sailings
> Book now and save $2,000 for a family of 4 on select summer departures along the Danube and Rhine River through amazing European destinations when you book through February 28, 2022!


I'm wondering if they are going to push the release for 2023 until after that (March?)

Sayhello


----------



## TravelJunkieHubby

I suspected the same - guess we will see if they can give us a few more months to pick something for 2023


----------



## sayhello

I saw on fb that the March Backstage Magic trips have been cancelled (but not the Escapes).  It makes it sound like the non-Disney stuff like the Jim Henson Studios (which are not included in the Escapes) are the sticking points.   

Sayhello


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## Mathmagicland

Posting here as it may be more than just my trip - I’m booked on one of the October New England trips and got an email from AbD yesterday that my PIF date has been pushed forward approx 60 days, from beginning of June to end of July.


----------



## zmom

Mathmagicland said:


> Posting here as it may be more than just my trip - I’m booked on one of the October New England trips and got an email from AbD yesterday that my PIF date has been pushed forward approx 60 days, from beginning of June to end of July.



Thanks for heads up.  I did not get an email and my PIF for May Germany was coming up soon.  I looked on the website and the info is there- PIF now at 65 days out.  Glad I have a little longer to see how things are going to play out.


----------



## zmom

*CANCELLATION & FINAL PAYMENT POLICY UPDATES*

New bookings of Land Adventures, Escapes and river cruises made through December 31, 2021 for travel through March 31, 2022 are eligible for fully refundable deposits up until the final payment date.

The final payment date for reservations made for Land Adventures and Escapes travel through March 31, 2023 has been temporarily modified to 65 days prior to departure.

All Buenos Aires departures, all Private Adventures, all river cruise sailings and all expedition cruise sailings are excluded from this modified cancellation and final payment policy.

For deposit, payment and cancellation policies for all Buenos Aires Escape departures, all Private Adventures, all river cruise sailings and all expedition cruise sailings visit our Terms & Conditions.

*FINAL PAYMENT UPDATE*

For bookings that travel through March 31, 2023, final payment will now be due 65 days prior to the adventure start date. Trips cancelled between 64-46 days prior to departure are subject to a 50% cancellation penalty; trips cancelled less than 46 days prior to departure are subject to a 100% cancellation penalty. Trips excluded from this final payment policy include:

All Buenos Aires Escape departures
All Expedition Cruise sailings
All Private Adventure departures
All River Cruise sailings
Unless otherwise stated on your Guest Confirmation, the deposit payment for existing bookings will continue to follow current cancellation guidelines and is non-refundable 15 or more days after it is paid should the Guest choose to cancel their reservation.

For deposit, payment and cancellation policies for all Buenos Aires Escape departures, all Private Adventures, all river cruise sailings and all expedition cruise sailings visit our Terms & Conditions.

*CANCELLATION POLICY FOR NEW 2023 EXPEDITION CRUISES AND 2023 BUENOS AIRES ESCAPE BOOKINGS:*

Guests who change or cancel their 2023 expedition cruise or 2023 Buenos Aires Escape reservation for any reason up to 280 days prior to departure will receive a future travel credit in the amount of their required deposit. Travel credits are eligible to be redeemed within 24 months of the initial booking date. Date changes or cancellations made within 280 days prior to departure will be subject to _Adventures by Disney_'s standard terms and conditions. Travel credits are non-transferable and not redeemable for cash in whole or in part.


----------



## sayhello

zmom said:


> *CANCELLATION & FINAL PAYMENT POLICY UPDATES*
> 
> New bookings of Land Adventures, Escapes and river cruises made through December 31, 2021 for travel through March 31, 2022 are eligible for fully refundable deposits up until the final payment date.
> 
> The final payment date for reservations made for Land Adventures and Escapes travel through March 31, 2023 has been temporarily modified to 65 days prior to departure.
> 
> All Buenos Aires departures, all Private Adventures, all river cruise sailings and all expedition cruise sailings are excluded from this modified cancellation and final payment policy.
> 
> For deposit, payment and cancellation policies for all Buenos Aires Escape departures, all Private Adventures, all river cruise sailings and all expedition cruise sailings visit our Terms & Conditions.
> 
> *FINAL PAYMENT UPDATE*
> 
> For bookings that travel through March 31, 2023, final payment will now be due 65 days prior to the adventure start date. Trips cancelled between 64-46 days prior to departure are subject to a 50% cancellation penalty; trips cancelled less than 46 days prior to departure are subject to a 100% cancellation penalty. Trips excluded from this final payment policy include:
> 
> All Buenos Aires Escape departures
> All Expedition Cruise sailings
> All Private Adventure departures
> All River Cruise sailings
> Unless otherwise stated on your Guest Confirmation, the deposit payment for existing bookings will continue to follow current cancellation guidelines and is non-refundable 15 or more days after it is paid should the Guest choose to cancel their reservation.
> 
> For deposit, payment and cancellation policies for all Buenos Aires Escape departures, all Private Adventures, all river cruise sailings and all expedition cruise sailings visit our Terms & Conditions.
> 
> *CANCELLATION POLICY FOR NEW 2023 EXPEDITION CRUISES AND 2023 BUENOS AIRES ESCAPE BOOKINGS:*
> 
> Guests who change or cancel their 2023 expedition cruise or 2023 Buenos Aires Escape reservation for any reason up to 280 days prior to departure will receive a future travel credit in the amount of their required deposit. Travel credits are eligible to be redeemed within 24 months of the initial booking date. Date changes or cancellations made within 280 days prior to departure will be subject to _Adventures by Disney_'s standard terms and conditions. Travel credits are non-transferable and not redeemable for cash in whole or in part.


I just came here to post this.  I got an email from ABD this morning that indicated these changes were for all existing bookings for the 2022 Season (through March 31, 2023) but it looks like the blurb on the website is more inclusive.

I'm glad they did this.  Makes things a tad less stressful.

Sayhello


----------



## ACDSNY

Unfortunately this isn't making me feel confident in our booking next summer in Europe.  I sure hope things improve sooner than later.


----------



## Sarahslay

ACDSNY said:


> Unfortunately this isn't making me feel confident in our booking next summer in Europe.  I sure hope things improve sooner than later.


I feel they're only doing it to ease some peoples anxieties about booking trips like this, that cost a good chunk of money, by having the money due closer to the trip date people might feel a little better because they'll know a bit more about the world situation at that point (in my mind anyway). Having to be PIF so far in advance makes a lot of people uneasy when things are so uncertain, so to ease those fears they do a "hey, don't worry, it's not due until two months out, you're good!" and people go "well that makes me feel better, I should book now so I can take advantage of this!". I'm going on the arctic expedition July 2023 so mine doesn't fall under this, but I know it would make me feel better if they did this with the payments.


----------



## Grifdog22

Sarahslay said:


> I feel they're only doing it to ease some peoples anxieties about booking trips like this, that cost a good chunk of money, by having the money due closer to the trip date people might feel a little better because they'll know a bit more about the world situation at that point (in my mind anyway). Having to be PIF so far in advance makes a lot of people uneasy when things are so uncertain, so to ease those fears they do a "hey, don't worry, it's not due until two months out, you're good!" and people go "well that makes me feel better, I should book now so I can take advantage of this!". I'm going on the arctic expedition July 2023 so mine doesn't fall under this, but I know it would make me feel better if they did this with the payments.


I would have felt better put I now I really don't.  I had called in as we were going to be tied up over the holidays with family matters and understood there would not be any new later payment changes for us on an April 28 USA departure soI paid in full. The note was seen today -  so again they have my money, some of which for about three years...They had already moved the date for January through March but not the following two months so we were paying way before people traveling before us.  Some consistency and correct information would be appreciated.


----------



## Sarahslay

Grifdog22 said:


> I would have felt better put I now I really don't.  I had called in as we were going to be tied up over the holidays with family matters and understood there would not be any new later payment changes for us on an April 28 USA departure soI paid in full. The note was seen today -  so again they have my money, some of which for about three years...They had already moved the date for January through March but not the following two months so we were paying way before people traveling before us.  Some consistency and correct information would be appreciated.


The same thing happened to us with our April DCL cruise so I understand, it is frustrating. We’ve just been shifting money since all the closures started hoping to finally go, then they finally started operating again and our PIF date was coming up so we paid. I had even contacted them because I had heard conflicting info on it, they told me I had to pay by my PIF date, so I paid…..and a week later they moved it to months later.
I think half the time the customer service folks have zero clue what is going on with this stuff, then the people upstream send out this info that would have been good for everyone to know well before PIF dates hit. Unfortunately they wait until after many peoples dates come and go to do this so it means nothing, it really is all for show to put peoples minds at ease who are on the fence about either keeping their future dates or booking a future trip.


----------



## TravelJunkieHubby

For anyone interested- i confirmed that the 2023 River cruises should be released in March.  I was able to get our placeholders extended by 2 months until these dates are released.  The vacationista I spoke with said 2023 land itineraries should be released in april or May.


----------



## disneytwincesses

Well March 2022 Italy trips are being canceled. A person in another group who had a trip book got the call. She questioned why so early they said so people can make other arrangements. :/ 

I have an April 2022 trip. third time moved in two years. We need to go because I have a health reason I am running out of time to travel to places like Italy. Was made to pay in fullDec 1. No word from Disney what their plans are. I am over this. I am triple vaxxed. Many of my friends have traveled to Europe/Italy just fine over the past few months. I almost feel like calling another travel vip company. But Disney has 100% of my money.

Omicron is projected to drop Like a rock come February. I don’t get this.


----------



## JGM

disneytwincesses said:


> Well March 2022 Italy trips are being canceled. A person in another group who had a trip book got the call. She questioned why so early they said so people can make other arrangements. :/
> 
> I have an April 2022 trip. third time moved in two years. We need to go because I have a health reason I am running out of time to travel to places like Italy. Was made to pay in fullDec 1. No word from Disney what their plans are. I am over this. I am triple vaxxed. Many of my friends have traveled to Europe/Italy just fine over the past few months. I almost feel like calling another travel vip company. But Disney has 100% of my money.
> 
> Omicron is projected to drop Like a rock come February. I don’t get this.



In the same boat. Been cancelled three times since April 2000. Now booked for Rome-Venice April ‘22. Been paid in full since March 2000. Don’t know why vaccination status matters so many family and friends who  bragged about being “tripled vaxed” just got the crap in the last month.  Bigger problem is the State Department (US) Issued a do not travel due to Covid and terrorism on 12/13/2021. 
*Travel Advisory
December 13, 2021
Italy - Level 4: Do Not Travel*
Do not travel to Italy due to *COVID-19. *Exercise increased caution due to terrorism.

Spoke with ABD just now…… ”Charlie” stated if a Country is Level 4 trips are cancelled. She went on to say that to the best of her knowledge no Italy trips have taken place since 2000.  As of now April trips are still On


----------



## MaryKatesMom

JGM said:


> In the same boat. Been cancelled three times since April 2000. Now booked for Rome-Venice April ‘22. Been paid in full since March 2000. Don’t know why vaccination status matters so many family and friends who  bragged about being “tripled vaxed” just got the crap in the last month.  Bigger problem is the State Department (US) Issued a do not travel due to Covid and terrorism on 12/13/2021.
> *Travel Advisory
> December 13, 2021
> Italy - Level 4: Do Not Travel*
> Do not travel to Italy due to *COVID-19. *Exercise increased caution due to terrorism.
> 
> Spoke with ABD just now…… ”Charlie” stated if a Country is Level 4 trips are cancelled. She went on to say that to the best of her knowledge no Italy trips have taken place since 2000.  As of now April trips are still On




Lovely,   I have a March 2022 Viking Italy Cruise that is the third move and a May 2022 ABD Rhine River cruise that is also a third move.  What kills me is both of these trips were booked very early with the early booking discount and Viking was PIF early in 2019.  Each time I moved the price went up and there was no early booking discount.  

The travel insurance was also a PIA to move.  I had purchased "Cancel for Any Reason" when I booked in 2018 but every time I moved, the cost of the insurance went up considerably.  I would have just gotten a refund but I had booked the ABD trip using Disney Gift Cards.  I bought some every month from Target like a prepaid plan but it would be a nightmare to have all that returned to the gift cards. And this was when they were $100 a piece.  Now the $500 email ones are much easier to keep track of instead of a bag of cards.


----------



## JGM

MaryKatesMom said:


> Lovely,   I have a March 2022 Viking Italy Cruise that is the third move and a May 2022 ABD Rhine River cruise that is also a third move.  What kills me is both of these trips were booked very early with the early booking discount and Viking was PIF early in 2019.  Each time I moved the price went up and there was no early booking discount.
> 
> The travel insurance was also a PIA to move.  I had purchased "Cancel for Any Reason" when I booked in 2018 but every time I moved, the cost of the insurance went up considerably.  I would have just gotten a refund but I had booked the ABD trip using Disney Gift Cards.  I bought some every month from Target like a prepaid plan but it would be a nightmare to have all that returned to the gift cards. And this was when they were $100 a piece.  Now the $500 email ones are much easier to keep track of instead of a bag of cards.



ABD has not charged me any extra for the 3 reschedules. 
The entire thing is a joke. The US is “Level 4” yet fully open but they issue Do Not Travel orders for Italy and most of Europe. Shouldn’t that be up to the hosting Country?
 It’s the dam flu, I’ve had it, was sick for 2 days. I’ve had worse colds. Time to move on from this crap.


----------



## sayhello

JGM said:


> In the same boat. Been cancelled three times since April 2000. Now booked for Rome-Venice April ‘22. Been paid in full since March 2000. Don’t know why vaccination status matters so many family and friends who  bragged about being “tripled vaxed” just got the crap in the last month.  Bigger problem is the State Department (US) Issued a do not travel due to Covid and terrorism on 12/13/2021.
> *Travel Advisory
> December 13, 2021
> Italy - Level 4: Do Not Travel*
> Do not travel to Italy due to *COVID-19. *Exercise increased caution due to terrorism.
> 
> Spoke with ABD just now…… ”Charlie” stated if a Country is Level 4 trips are cancelled. She went on to say that to the best of her knowledge no Italy trips have taken place since 2000.  As of now April trips are still On


I'm assuming you mean 2020 and not 2000.  You did the same in the other thread you posted in.

Sayhello


----------



## disneytwincesses

JGM said:


> ABD has not charged me any extra for the 3 reschedules.
> The entire thing is a joke. The US is “Level 4” yet fully open but they issue Do Not Travel orders for Italy and most of Europe. Shouldn’t that be up to the hosting Country?
> It’s the dam flu, I’ve had it, was sick for 2 days. I’ve had worse colds. Time to move on from this crap.


That is how I feel.  Florida has a higher case count per 100,000 people than most of Europe, including Italy. Yet Disney World is open and cruises (which are a do not travel) are sailing around. So does New York and other states that ABD is operating trips with.  Countries that may not be level 4, yet have not so great health and hospital systems are running.  But going to a first world country, triple vaxxed, insurance if I get covid in another country, with a case count lower than most states.......too dangerous. :/  

I am just a little upset ABD demanded PIF for us April folks, then people a little later get a different payment policy.  Honestly.  I paid on the last hour, but i figured if there were doubts disney would have done a 60 day PIF instead of the 120 days.  I want to switch to another company but here is my money tied up with Disney.  Tauck is currently running to europe.  I am praying we go in April.  My TA has worked so hard on this trip, but I am about to give up on ABD for Europe.  Even when case counts were super low they didn't go. It makes me question if they really care or want to go anymore as a company.


----------



## JGM

I did mean 2020 Thank you. 
I live in NY. So called “cases” are through the roof yet just about no one is sick. I paid with DVC points that have now been tied up for 3 years! They, ABD & DVC, cannot even tell me what will happen to my DVC points if they cancel for the 4th time without me rebooking. At this point it’ has cost me about $1000 to rebook flights. Enough is enough. 
I did the ABD Rome tour back in 2008. It was amazing. Was so looking forward to going again, now not so much.


----------



## abdgeek

JGM said:


> I did mean 2020 Thank you.
> I live in NY. So called “cases” are through the roof yet just about no one is sick. I paid with DVC points that have now been tied up for 3 years! They, ABD & DVC, cannot even tell me what will happen to my DVC points if they cancel for the 4th time without me rebooking. At this point it’ has cost me about $1000 to rebook flights. Enough is enough.
> I did the ABD Rome tour back in 2008. It was amazing. Was so looking forward to going again, now not so much.



Unfortunately, every configuration of points is different so don’t be too concerned that DVC can’t answer your questions about what will happen to your points if they cancel.  They truly don’t know until it happens.  I was in your situation when my ABD River Cruise & Short Escape that I booked for June 2020 was canceled, rebooked for June 2021, and again canceled by ABD.  I was allowed to book NZ for Dec. 2022 using those same points(I owed a couple more for the new trip).  What was explained to me then was that DVC had converted my points to cash and paid ABD back in 2020 for my trip, so everything being done was behind the scenes.

DO NOT cancel your trip!  Let ABD cancel it.  You can then call DVC and reschedule for another trip using those points.  If you decide not to rebook, you will need to use the points by the end of your use year or you lose them.


----------



## JGM

abdgeek said:


> Unfortunately, every configuration of points is different so don’t be too concerned that DVC can’t answer your questions about what will happen to your points if they cancel.  They truly don’t know until it happens.  I was in your situation when my ABD River Cruise & Short Escape that I booked for June 2020 was canceled, rebooked for June 2021, and again canceled by ABD.  I was allowed to book NZ for Dec. 2022 using those same points(I owed a couple more for the new trip).  What was explained to me then was that DVC had converted my points to cash and paid ABD back in 2020 for my trip, so everything being done was behind the scenes.
> 
> DO NOT cancel your trip!  Let ABD cancel it.  You can then call DVC and reschedule for another trip using those points.  If you decide not to rebook, you will need to use the points by the end of your use year or you lose them.



You just nailed the exact problem and why DVC & ABD cannot tell me what will happen to my points. They were 2019 and 2020 use year points. Which as you know are now “expired”. ABD has cancelled all Italy trips up to April. We are now the very first trip scheduled. Not holding my breath. If they cancel this time I’m done with ABD. They can run parks all over the world but can’t take 30-40 on a tour?  BS.


----------



## abdgeek

JGM said:


> ... If they cancel this time I’m done with ABD. They can run parks all over the world but can’t take 30-40 on a tour?  BS.



I definitely understand your frustration that DVC/ABDs processes/policies during the pandemic have not allowed people to be as proactive in rescheduling or canceling their trips as their comfort zone allows.  ABD got a lot of bad press when the pandemic began and they allowed the Australia trip to go and then it was cancelled before some people got there.  IMO, Disney has always been risk averse so that incident has made them more cautious now.

When I had to start moving trips, I asked my sister who has worked in Public Health when I would be able to travel internationally again.  She said 2023/24 and I told her she was crazy.  Of course, she was right.  The travel industry has always forecasted that travel will not return to normal until 2024/25.  That being said, I still have a trip planned to Bali this summer that I booked myself.  I hope they will be open to US visitors by then and that I can travel.  If I can't, oh well.  My travel insurance covers a specific amount for lodging, etc. if I am not able to return due to testing positive and having to quarantine.  It has surprised me that, to my knowledge, ABD has not required customers to purchase a policy for their trips that covers them for this.  The last thing you want to do is take a trip, pay thousands of dollars, and then have to pay thousands more to quarantine in a foreign country because you got Covid.  The Points Guy has posted several articles about their writers who have traveled internationally to countries who have tested positive when they wanted to return and had to quarantine.  Their experiences have been interesting and definitely not something I want to have to go through.

ABD sent a survey out last year asking people what their non-negotiables were for going on an ABD during the pandemic. Some of the options were full vaccination of guests and guides, face mask requirements, and not traveling to a Level 4 advisory country.  It appears they have taken those suggestions to heart.  I'm not going to be mad with ABD if they cancel my December trip because they don't feel it can be done safely or that they can't keep me safe.  I'll be disappointed, but will understand and will move those points to another trip.  Good luck with your trip planning.


----------



## disneytwincesses

Here is the problem, the state department levels I disagree with.  Everything else you mentioned ABD is doing.  My issue is if ABD knows they aren't going, they need to stop booking and moving people's money around with promises to go the next time.  DCL got a lot of complaints too that they were using deposits and PIF people who got canceled to keep their business afloat. It looks greedy, but as my disney co worker said.....who expected less from Disney leadership lately.


----------



## JGM

It’s a joke. The USA is Level 4+. Disney has parks around the world open that allow people from around the world in. If they cancel my April 4th Italy trip for the 4th time I’m done with ABD.


----------



## sayhello

JGM said:


> It’s a joke. The USA is Level 4+. Disney has parks around the world open that allow people from around the world in. If they cancel my April 4th Italy trip for the 4th time I’m done with ABD.


You know, I'm not necessarily defending ABD, because heaven knows they have not handled a lot of things with this pandemic well.  But have you asked them why they draw the line at a countries being a Level 4?  Running a park and running a tour are two VERY different things.  You have Adventure Guides who for the most part do not live in the countries where the trip is occurring who have to get from the US or another country to that country, then possibly to another country.  What happens if your Adventure Guide arrives and tests positive before the trip starts?  What happens if they were supposed to go from another country to where your trip is, and can't get there because they can't cross the border or get on a plane?  Heck, maybe it's written in the Adventure Guide's contracts that they're not allowed to work in a country that's a Level 4.  Unless you know the answers to these questions, calling it a joke is not helpful.  It may be that the reason is very, very serious.  I get that it's frustrating.  Not knowing what's going on behind the scenes, it appears random to you.  And maybe it is.  But have you asked?  If ABD refuses to tell you why the policy is in place, then I agree with you.  But until then, saying that an unrelated division of Disney is working differently than ABD is, just isn't relevant. 

Sayhello


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## JGM

sayhello said:


> You know, I'm not necessarily defending ABD, because heaven knows they have not handled a lot of things with this pandemic well.  But have you asked them why they draw the line at a countries being a Level 4?  Running a park and running a tour are two VERY different things.  You have Adventure Guides who for the most part do not live in the countries where the trip is occurring who have to get from the US or another country to that country, then possibly to another country.  What happens if your Adventure Guide arrives and tests positive before the trip starts?  What happens if they were supposed to go from another country to where your trip is, and can't get there because they can't cross the border or get on a plane?  Heck, maybe it's written in the Adventure Guide's contracts that they're not allowed to work in a country that's a Level 4.  Unless you know the answers to these questions, calling it a joke is not helpful.  It may be that the reason is very, very serious.  I get that it's frustrating.  Not knowing what's going on behind the scenes, it appears random to you.  And maybe it is.  But have you asked?  If ABD refuses to tell you why the policy is in place, then I agree with you.  But until then, saying that an unrelated division of Disney is working differently than ABD is, just isn't relevant.
> 
> Sayhello



‘That just sounds like a long winded excuse. On my previous ABD trips the guides were specific to that tour. Additionally ABD had had 2 years to address that issue if it’s even an issue.   You‘re right operating a Park that has over a 100,000 visitors a day is far worse then running a tour with a couple of dozen people.


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## sayhello

JGM said:


> ‘That just sounds like a long winded excuse. On my previous ABD trips the guides were specific to that tour. Additionally ABD had had 2 years to address that issue if it’s even an issue.   You‘re right operating a Park that has over a 100,000 visitors a day is far worse then running a tour with a couple of dozen people.


It's a long winded excuse if you want to be angry.  Which I can totally understand.

On all of my ABDs, at *least* one of the Adventure Guides has been an American, sometimes they both were.  And Adventure Guides often jump from trip to trip and country to country during a season.  I'm friends with several Adventure Guides, and have seen them posting about where they are this week, where they will be next week, who will be joining them which month, etc.  They are VERY rarely specific to a tour unless they are native to that country.  And the Adventure Guides who are native to the country are usually paired up with an American Adventure Guide.

Sayhello


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## JGM

sayhello said:


> It's a long winded excuse if you want to be angry.  Which I can totally understand.
> 
> On all of my ABDs, at *least* one of the Adventure Guides has been an American, sometimes they both were.  And Adventure Guides often jump from trip to trip and country to country during a season.  I'm friends with several Adventure Guides, and have seen them posting about where they are this week, where they will be next week, who will be joining them which month, etc.  They are VERY rarely specific to a tour unless they are native to that country.  And the Adventure Guides who are native to the country are usually paired up with an American Adventure Guide.
> 
> Sayhello


  Again that was how long ago?  ABD has had 2 years to address this if it is even an issue. With such a limited amount of tours running seems it would be even less an issue. Plus the Italy “season” is year round. On top of that ABD runs 4 different Italy tours which makes the guide excuse even more moot.


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## neurosx1983

As I said in a post I think somewhere else, if you feel strongly about going somewhere in Europe that is category four, which is basically the entire continent, you should still consider going on your own. You can replicate a lot of the same things from the Italy trip on your own (Yes even the Vatican after hours tour). I’m going to the UK in March which is category four. We cant always wait for ABD because as was pointed out there might be much more behind them not being able to go to a certain country. I get that it’s frustrating. If you want to go to Italy, go to Italy ! You don’t need ABD… Have you even looked at other companies like A&K? Or just do it OYO. You'll also probably make out cheaper.


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## JGM

neurosx1983 said:


> As I said in a post I think somewhere else, if you feel strongly about going somewhere in Europe that is category four, which is basically the entire continent, you should still consider going on your own. You can replicate a lot of the same things from the Italy trip on your own (Yes even the Vatican after hours tour). I’m going to the UK in March which is category four. We cant always wait for ABD because as was pointed out there might be much more behind them not being able to go to a certain country. I get that it’s frustrating. If you want to go to Italy, go to Italy ! You don’t need ABD… Have you even looked at other companies like A&K? Or just do it OYO. You'll also probably make out cheaper.


 I so agree with you, seems like the entire world is Level 4.  I would go on my own but ABD/DVC are holding about 1500 points hostage. About 2.5 years worth of DVC points. At this point I would be happy with getting points back.


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## sayhello

JGM said:


> Again that was how long ago?  ABD has had 2 years to address this if it is even an issue. With such a limited amount of tours running seems it would be even less an issue. Plus the Italy “season” is year round. On top of that ABD runs 4 different Italy tours which makes the guide excuse even more moot.


You know, I just gave the Adventure Guide situation as a possible example.  Unless you've run an international tour company, you don't know what all the ins and outs of running a tour in a foreign country involve.  There could be legal requirements of the foreign country that they have to comply with or EU requirements or who knows what.  If I remember correctly, ABD had issues running a tour that was just in Canada because Canada required all tour Guides to be Canadians certified as a Canadian Guide.  Stuff like that.  We just don't know what's behind it.  The chances that it's just some arbitrary rule that ABD came up with so that they could get out of running trips is highly unlikely.  Not impossible, but highly unlikely.  If they really wanted to not run trips, they can just cancel them and give you a refund.  And the fact that it's been 2 years doesn't mean much when the circumstances and the rules are constantly changing.  

I really think if your trip gets cancelled this time, you need to get a refund of your points, and like @neurosx1983 suggested, go on your own.  Personally, I took a refund the first time my trip was cancelled and will not book an international trip until things are much more stable.  But that's just me.

Sayhello


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## BadPinkTink

sayhello said:


> You know, I just gave the Adventure Guide situation as a possible example.  Unless you've run an international tour company, you don't know what all the ins and outs of running a tour in a foreign country involve.  There could be legal requirements of the foreign country that they have to comply with or EU requirements or who knows what.  If I remember correctly, ABD had issues running a tour that was just in Canada because Canada required all tour Guides to be Canadians certified as a Canadian Guide.  Stuff like that.  We just don't know what's behind it.  The chances that it's just some arbitrary rule that ABD came up with so that they could get out of running trips is highly unlikely.  Not impossible, but highly unlikely.  If they really wanted to not run trips, they can just cancel them and give you a refund.  And the fact that it's been 2 years doesn't mean much when the circumstances and the rules are constantly changing.
> 
> I really think if your trip gets cancelled this time, you need to get a refund of your points, and like @neurosx1983 suggested, go on your own.  Personally, I took a refund the first time my trip was cancelled and will not book an international trip until things are much more stable.  But that's just me.
> 
> Sayhello



Italy has the same rules. I went on a Contiki tour in Europe years ago, started and ended in London, and went to various places in France, Germany, Austria, Italy and Switzerland. In Italy our tour guide had to pretend to be just part of our group when she brought us around Rome and The Vatican, as she didn't have the official credentials and had to be on the down low.


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## abdgeek

JGM said:


> I so agree with you, seems like the entire world is Level 4.  I would go on my own but ABD/DVC are holding about 1500 points hostage. About 2.5 years worth of DVC points. At this point I would be happy with getting points back.



Make sure you‘ve done your homework and confirm with DVC what the regulations are with regards to your points if ABD cancels your trip and you decide not to book another ABD with them.  Unless the policies have changed, your refunded points will expire at the end of your use year if not used.  They can also only be used to book certain things.


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## JGM

abdgeek said:


> Make sure you‘ve done your homework and confirm with DVC what the regulations are with regards to your points if ABD cancels your trip and you decide not to book another ABD with them.  Unless the policies have changed, your refunded points will expire at the end of your use year if not used.  They can also only be used to book certain things.



You nailed it. As I’ve mentioned earlier points were from 2019 and 2020 which are now “expired” neither ABD nor DVC has an answer.  At this point I’ll take the points back then book 2 weeks at a Polynesian resort Bora Bora bungalow.


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## disneytwincesses

If ABD takes your trip off the website that is in April is that a sign it is probably going to be canceled? My TA has not heard anything.


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## JGM

Yep they cancelled more trips.  Mine cancelled for 4th time. I’m done with ABD


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## disneytwincesses

JGM said:


> Yep they cancelled more trips.  Mine cancelled for 4th time. I’m done with ABD


 I think we are on the same trip April 5-12 Italy, I didn't hear anything yet.  Did you get something? 

I will be honest, I am slowly backing away from Italy right now and taking the refund.  Italy has a new rule to sleep in hotels and even eat outside, you have to have a vaccine within six months.  So for many of us fall booster folks, that is a huge problem.  The rule starts Feb 1.  Abd had NO CLUE when I called them to ask about this.   My TA even talked to a supervisor.  A friend of mine going to Italy in May with ABD called freaking out and ABD said they didn't know what to tell her and the hotels ABD has will not allow an extended stay for positive covid so you have to go to a government run Italy hotel which I heard is a horror story.  I can see why ABD is freaking out a little.  Italy literally just changed the rules on them.


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## JGM

Yes we were on same trip confirmed cancelled. ABD doesn’t seem to know much about much. I’m not rebooking with them. 
As for the vaccine IMO it’s useless, everyone in our house is triple vaccinated and we all had it during Christmas. Same as my unvaccinated friends it was just like having the flu for 2 days.  Frustrating to say the least.  Been on with DVD for over an hour now as they have no clue what to do.  I’ll update if this call ever ends


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## disneytwincesses

JGM said:


> Yes we were on same trip confirmed cancelled. ABD doesn’t seem to know much about much. I’m not rebooking with them.
> As for the vaccine IMO it’s useless, everyone in our house is triple vaccinated and we all had it during Christmas. Same as my unvaccinated friends it was just like having the flu for 2 days.  Frustrating to say the least.  Been on with DVD for over an hour now as they have no clue what to do.  I’ll update if this call ever ends


I understand but I am going to be OK by a week, but I know some people had to have it in early October and that isn't going to work over there.  They did say Italy has been all over the place and then changeing rules last minute.  I can understand what a mess that is.  I also know they are being strict if you test positive, even with no symptoms.  7 day isolation in a hotel room of the government designation if your hotel won't let you stay.  No outside walks, no help or outside food delivery, nothing.  If you test positive again day 7, that is another seven days up to 21 days.  :/ A friend of mine called the ABD hotels for Italy/Amfi coast trip and none are letting covid positive people stay, they would transport you to the dreaded government run hotel.


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## disneytwincesses

JGM said:


> Yes we were on same trip confirmed cancelled. ABD doesn’t seem to know much about much. I’m not rebooking with them.
> As for the vaccine IMO it’s useless, everyone in our house is triple vaccinated and we all had it during Christmas. Same as my unvaccinated friends it was just like having the flu for 2 days.  Frustrating to say the least.  Been on with DVD for over an hour now as they have no clue what to do.  I’ll update if this call ever ends


 If you had Covid at Christmas, you can get a 90 day super green pass previous covid infection exempt.  You can get more information off of Italy's public health page on what letter you need from your doctor. The letter works like a USA Covid Vaccine card.


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## disneytwincesses

JGM said:


> Yes we were on same trip confirmed cancelled. ABD doesn’t seem to know much about much. I’m not rebooking with them.
> As for the vaccine IMO it’s useless, everyone in our house is triple vaccinated and we all had it during Christmas. Same as my unvaccinated friends it was just like having the flu for 2 days.  Frustrating to say the least.  Been on with DVD for over an hour now as they have no clue what to do.  I’ll update if this call ever ends


Did they tell you on the phone it was cancelled, my TA said they are not saying anything to her and this may be the closing of the booking window.


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## sayhello

disneytwincesses said:


> If ABD takes your trip off the website that is in April is that a sign it is probably going to be canceled? My TA has not heard anything.


This far out, it's not a good sign.  

Sayhello


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## abdgeek

Add Spain to the list of countries that will require a booster shot to enter.  Saw this article yesterday.  If more members of the European Union start doing this, it may make it challenging for ABD to run these trips.


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## Magnum_PI

abdgeek said:


> Add Spain to the list of countries that will require a booster shot to enter.  Saw this article yesterday.  If more members of the European Union start doing this, it may make it challenging for ABD to run these trips.



Requiring the booster isn't too wild, but the "must be boosted within 6 months" thing is - all things considered - a pretty narrow window when it comes to international travel. Will be interesting to see how things evolve...!


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## disneytwincesses

Magnum_PI said:


> Requiring the booster isn't too wild, but the "must be boosted within 6 months" thing is - all things considered - a pretty narrow window when it comes to international travel. Will be interesting to see how things evolve...!



exactly. I know some folks going in May freaking out they got their booster in the fall and Would be outside the six month window. Right now no talks of more boosters. So Italy is bumping up against USA timeline  guidelines that is a problem ABD has got to address


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## Magnum_PI

JGM said:


> Requiring a booster or even to be vaccinated is totally “wild” and a joke as it does ZERO to stop transmission. Zero. Not only that it does nothing to stop a person from acquiring the Omicron variant.  I’m ”triple” vaccinated yet got Covid a few weeks ago. Thankfully I’m a healthy retired 55 year old, I’ve had worse colds.
> I spent over 2 hours on phone today with ABD and DVC. I asked when ABD realistically believes tours for Italy will restart the supervisor bluntly told me her opinion was “maybe mid-2023” as they are now only cancelling one week at a time to limit the onslaught of calls.
> 
> I strongly recommend against anyone booking with ABD for at least the next year plus.



Our perspectives are likely different as I am immunocompromised. You are entitled to feel how you feel, of course. I personally am grateful for access to vaccines that reduce the odds of being hospitalized by ~90%. I’m sincerely glad to hear you are healthy and that you recovered easily from your recent covid case, that’s wonderful news.

For what it’s worth, I wouldn’t recommend booking with ABD right now either. Dealing with them for two years trying to go to Egypt has unfortunately been a cycle of poor communication and questionable customer service. We’re also very turned off by the possibility of a mandatory quarantine in a foreign country.

I hope you’re able to work with someone else to take the trip you want to take.


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## JGM

I too hope we can get things worked out. Thanks


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## JGM

I‘m obviously not anti-vaccine, hell after 10 years in the military being pumped with everything from anti-anthrax shots to malaria shots to who knows what shots this was nothing. Don’t see this ever ending, it’s going to take natural immunity till it becomes just another version of the flu. Remember the regular flu shot is only 40-60% effective which has been around since 1945. 

I so agree with you that Disney, ABD, and DVC have handled this situation horribly. Constant conflicting answers, rules that are constantly changing for the benefit of Disney not the customer. I understand this is unprecedented but they have had 2 years now to find amicable solutions.
If you look through ABD’s website you will see very very few trips are full. How long can ABD remain in business?


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## TravelJunkieHubby

I would have expected ABD to pivot more towards domestic itineraries (in addition to New England) since there is still demand for guided travel and many are reluctant to travel internationally.  

As an aside, it would be interesting to understand the economics of each itinerary as we all know this certainly impacts decision making.


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## CaliforniaGirl09

JGM said:


> I so agree with you that Disney, ABD, and DVC have handled this situation horribly. Constant conflicting answers, rules that are constantly changing for the benefit of Disney not the customer. I understand this is unprecedented but they have had 2 years now to find amicable solutions.
> If you look through ABD’s website you will see very very few trips are full. How long can ABD remain in business?


Thank you for your service! I totally agree about how horribly Disney in general (and ABD in particular) has handled things. I still can't get over how they handled the trips at the beginning of the pandemic, but even beyond ABD, the Disney-wide changes have been horrible. We were at WDW a couple weeks ago for the races, and my husband came up with the perfect summary: if it makes the company money, COVID doesn't exist, but it if costs the company money, "sorry, COVID." They have let so much in customer service/experience slide due to COVID, but they'll pack in people in the parks (the racing corrals were wall to wall) with no regard to COVID protocols at all. Regarding ABD continuing to be in business, I was talking with DH about it wondering the same thing. I suspect the larger Disney co is propping them up?


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## JGM

You are so correct that Disney is milking Covid for all it’s worth.  Covid is never going away, influenza (the flu) never went away. Matter of fact the flu has been with us for over a hundred years now and when it started it was far deadlier then Covid killing 50 million people.  
Fact is Disney has used Covid to get away with things they never would have.


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## Gemini1131

disneytwincesses said:


> exactly. I know some folks going in May freaking out they got their booster in the fall and Would be outside the six month window. Right now no talks of more boosters. So Italy is bumping up against USA timeline  guidelines that is a problem ABD has got to address


I definitely fall in this category. Supposed to be on the may 31 trip but boosted back in October. Looks like I need to reach out to the goddaughter. This high school graduation present is slowly morphing into a college graduation present


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## Magnum_PI

JGM said:


> I‘m obviously not anti-vaccine, hell after 10 years in the military being pumped with everything from anti-anthrax shots to malaria shots to who knows what shots this was nothing. Don’t see this ever ending, it’s going to take natural immunity till it becomes just another version of the flu. Remember the regular flu shot is only 40-60% effective which has been around since 1945.
> 
> I so agree with you that Disney, ABD, and DVC have handled this situation horribly. Constant conflicting answers, rules that are constantly changing for the benefit of Disney not the customer. I understand this is unprecedented but they have had 2 years now to find amicable solutions.
> If you look through ABD’s website you will see very very few trips are full. How long can ABD remain in business?



Thank you for your service! I agree that it's absolutely *not* been a customer-centered experience. We expected better and are really disappointed. ABD has been nothing like our interactions with other Disney brands. Unfortunately this was our first experience with them, and it candidly hasn't been great. I'm just glad to be off the roller coaster with them at this point. Have you been able to find any alternatives for Italy?


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## disneytwincesses

Gemini1131 said:


> I definitely fall in this category. Supposed to be on the may 31 trip but boosted back in October. Looks like I need to reach out to the goddaughter. This high school graduation present is slowly morphing into a college graduation present


Good luck with ABD. When I called them about it they told me they couldn’t tell me what they would do and we all signed the terms and agreement when we booked. I am still a little shocked that was the response I got.


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## disneytwincesses

I agree they need to do more domestic trips. My sister asked if they do a Hawaii ABD (I know about their Dvc resort) but I am talking like a serious island hoping and great adventure! I would love to do a civil war trail ABD as my kids are now really into history and we have had a blast going outdoors to all the national parks lately. A guide, jeeps, extra private museum tours at fancy hotels would be amazing.
I do parks and DCL. This would have been our first ABD. I will admit I am a little put off by the lack of communication and openness and flexibility I have gotten from other travels over the past two years.


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## sayhello

disneytwincesses said:


> I agree they need to do more domestic trips. My sister asked if they do a Hawaii ABD (I know about their Dvc resort) but I am talking like a serious island hoping and great adventure! I would love to do a civil war trail ABD as my kids are now really into history and we have had a blast going outdoors to all the national parks lately. A guide, jeeps, extra private museum tours at fancy hotels would be amazing.
> I do parks and DCL. This would have been our first ABD. I will admit I am a little put off by the lack of communication and openness and flexibility I have gotten from other travels over the past two years.


Hawaii was actually one of the first ABD itineraries offered back in 2005/2006.  It did not do well, I was told because they really couldn't arrange anything that couldn't be arranged by the resorts they stayed at, so they stopped offering it.  Hawaii is particularly easy to set up excursions and transportation with independent tour operators, either through your hotel/resort or directly with the operators.  There are TONS of options.

ABD used to be MUCH better.  It's really sad to see what's happened to them throughout the pandemic.  Although, honestly, they were starting to have issues even before that.  It's a shame, because the product is so totally fabulous, as are the Adventure Guides, but the folks making the decisions, not so much.

That said, I would love to see more domestic trips.  Maybe they could redeem themselves that way, with trips that don't involve the rules of foreign countries.

Sayhello


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## JGM

disneytwincesses said:


> I agree they need to do more domestic trips. My sister asked if they do a Hawaii ABD (I know about their Dvc resort) but I am talking like a serious island hoping and great adventure! I would love to do a civil war trail ABD as my kids are now really into history and we have had a blast going outdoors to all the national parks lately. A guide, jeeps, extra private museum tours at fancy hotels would be amazing.
> I do parks and DCL. This would have been our first ABD. I will admit I am a little put off by the lack of communication and openness and flexibility I have gotten from other travels over the past two years.



ABD has 4 day Disneyland tour which is basically 2 days that costs just over $3,000. Hardly seems worth it. 

Hawaii ABD is an incredible idea!  
Hawaii was not easy to travel to last fall. You basically have to get “permission” to visit, if you’re not “up to date” on your vaccine you have a mandatory 5 day quarantine If you haven’t submitted a negative test from the preceding 72 hours. Children 5 and over are required to be vaccinated as per CDC guidelines Or a negative test. Only State I know of that has these measures.
DVC Aulani issues you a wrist ban proving you’re vaccinated without it you cannot eat at any on site restaurants. The resort doesn’t require masks though everywhere else did and they were super strict about it.  

ABD is horrible at working with customers. If it wasn’t for this forum I wouldn’t have known my trip was cancelled


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## abdgeek

Well, my hopes for traveling to Bali this summer have been dashed.  Delta recently canceled my flight, so I’m really bummed but understand.  it was interesting that the part of the flight that got canceled was the leg from SYD to DPS, but the flights still show on Virgin Australia’s website.  Given that countries are opening up, I’m surprised (but grateful) that the flight was canceled this early.  It makes me wonder what the airlines know that we don’t.  Good luck to everyone else hoping to travel internationally this summer.


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## sayhello

abdgeek said:


> Well, my hopes for traveling to Bali this summer have been dashed.  Delta recently canceled my flight, so I’m really bummed but understand.  it was interesting that the part of the flight that got canceled was the leg from SYD to DPS, but the flights still show on Virgin Australia’s website.  Given that countries are opening up, I’m surprised (but grateful) that the flight was canceled this early.  It makes me wonder what the airlines know that we don’t.  Good luck to everyone else hoping to travel internationally this summer.


Did Delta tell you why they cancelled the flight?

Sayhello


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## abdgeek

sayhello said:


> Did Delta tell you why they cancelled the flight?
> 
> Sayhello



Unfortunately, they didn’t.  They didn’t even email me to let me know it was canceled.  I just happened to notice it when I was checking to see if my flights had changed.  When I asked the agent why the flight was canceled, they said they didn’t know.  When I tried to search for new flights, I couldn’t even search for Bali anymore on there site.


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## sayhello

abdgeek said:


> Unfortunately, they didn’t.  They didn’t even email me to let me know it was canceled.  I just happened to notice it when I was checking to see if my flights had changed.  When I asked the agent why the flight was canceled, they said they didn’t know.  When I tried to search for new flights, I couldn’t even search for Bali anymore on there site.


Oh, wow.  I guess that option's really gone then.  Sorry!  

ETA: I wonder if it has anything to do with Bali's mandatory quarantine policy?

https://www.travelinglifestyle.net/bali-reopening-borders/

Sayhello


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## aggiedog

Bummer.  That must be disappointing.  I have to say, anyone with an international flight needs to check regularly that it still exists.  I've heard your story many times, and have experienced it myself.  We have a family friend that was told at the airport that her flight to Europe was canceled (she hadn't been checking before hand and had assumed they would notify her.). She had to cancel her entire trip as she was unable to meet the tour group in time.  International travel right now is extra stressful.


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## abdgeek

sayhello said:


> Oh, wow.  I guess that option's really gone then.  Sorry!
> 
> ETA: I wonder if it has anything to do with Bali's mandatory quarantine policy?
> 
> https://www.travelinglifestyle.net/bali-reopening-borders/
> 
> Sayhello



I’m not sure, but I know it doesn’t help.  I was hoping it would be gone by June/July. Since I planned to stay about 3.5 weeks, I would have even been ok with a 3 day quarantine at a hotel as long as I could fly direct to DPS to do it.  Oh well, Fiji/NZ is my last internatIonal trip this year.  I know NZ is supposed to open up in October for international travel, so I’m still holding out hope that my December ABD will go. I should have followed your lead and only booked domestic travel and I wouldn’t be obsessing over when international travel will return.


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## laceltris3

I had been feeling pangs of regret about canceling Switzerland/Austria/Germany for an Alaska land trip this summer. I pulled the plug last September. Now I am happy with our decision and will tentatively leave the deposits when they price the 2023 Siene river cruise we booked for June next year. It's a little bit bigger of a commitment with Tauck because you can move around land trip deposit money basically at will, but river cruise deposits are non-refundable. At least it is only one country and I can get direct flights from my local airport, so all I can do now is hope that ultimately they lift all of the frustrating testing requirements to return.


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