# DL & DCA -Disability Access Service Card- Post 1 update 12/7/14 DAS tied to ticket



## SueM in MN

*Disneyland & Disney's California Adventure - Disability Access Service (DAS) Cards replace Guest Assistance Cards (GACs) 
The DAS program was rolled out at all WDW and California Disney parks on October 9, 2013.
This thread is going to be about Disneyland & Disney's California Adventure questions and information.*

*Post 1 is what we know about the DAS. It will be updated as more information comes out. 

Post 2 is Guidelines for discussion, FAQs about the change and other information 

Post 3 and 4 are going to be a collection of suggestions or things people feel have been helpful as they navigate the new system.*

*Disneyland & Disney's California Adventure - Disability Access Service Cards replace Guest Assistance Cards 
The information that follows is not 'official', but is as complete, up to date and accurate as possible. Some is from documents already released by Disney and some from personal conversations with reliable sources. The Moderators are not employed by Disney and make no claims to be speaking for Disney.*
items that are rumor will be labeled as rumor. Anything not labeled as rumor has been confirmed to be accurate, at least at the time of the last update.
*As of November 2014, Disneyland has tied DAS to tickets.
Basically, the DAS holder's ticket is tied to the DAS and the tickets of other members of the party are linked to the DAS holder. When getting a DAS Return Time, any of those members can also be linked to the DAS Return Time to ride with the DAS holder.
The process is to prevent abuse, which was occurring.*

*What is the Disability Access Service (DAS)?*
This is Disney's new way of providing assistance to guests with disabilities that prevent them from waiting in a traditional line environment because of their disability.
The quick overview:

Guests with a disability that prevents them from waiting in a traditional line environment will receive a DAS card with their photo on it.
Person the DAS was issued to must actually be going on the attraction in order to use the DAS. It can't be used for the group to shorten their wait on attractions the DAS holder chooses not to or can't ride.
Using the DAS card, the guest will be able to get a return time, based on the current wait time. That will allow the guest to wait in a place of their choice.
It will work much like a Fastpass. (We are going to call the DAS return times *Return Times* to help differentiate them from Fastpass (FP) and Fastpass + (FP+)
DAS can be used in addition to using Disney's Fastpass Service, so guests will be able to get a DAS Return Time and Fastpasses.
*Can I write ahead of time and get a DAS card? Where do I request one?*
No, you can't write or call ahead to get one.
If you have specific questions about the DAS program, you can email Disney at disability.services@disneyparks.com

issued at Guest Relations at Theme Parks (see below for locations)
- DAS issued at one park is valid at any other Theme Park; do not need one for each park
- DAS is only used at Theme Park attractions; not used at Downtown Disney, transportation, restaurants or parking
*Where can I find Guest Relations in the Parks?*
- Guest Relations in Disneyland is called City Hall and is located just inside the park on the left hand side.  The front entrance has steps, and the ramp is located on the far side of the building.
- Guest Relations in DCA is called Chamber of Commerce and is located just inside the park on the left hand side.
- Please note, under the GAC system, it was not possible to get a GAC at any Guest Relations location outside the park entrances.  There is no evidence this will change under the new system.  As far as we know right now, you *must *actually enter the parks to get the DAS card.

*How do I request a DAS?*

person the DAS is being requested for needs to be present, even if they can't talk
- you will be asked about your/the person's _needs_ related to disability, _not_ your diagnosis
- you may be asked "why are you requesting it?" - this does not mean they are asking what your disability is; they want to know what your needs are. For example, diabetes, autism and fibromylagia are not disabilities - they (like Cerebral Palsy, that is one of the conditions my DD has) are _conditions that can cause a disability._
Not everyone with a condition has a disability. So, your task will be to explain how your conditions affect you in a way that causes a need for accommodation.
- different people with the same diagnosis can have very different needs
- no proof or doctor's note is needed, and will not be looked at
there will not be any different stamps like GACs had; the person will either be issued a DAS or not
DAS will be issued for up to 6 (5 plus the person with a disability)
- Guest Relations will be able to make exceptions on a case by case basis - for example, 7 for a family of 2 adults and 5 children; 7 for family of 2 parents, 3 children, Grandma and Grandpa. (This was done for GACs)
- if it is given for more then a total of 4 people, all must be present at the time it is requested. 
NEW AS OF NOVEMER 2014 - ALL MEMBERS OF THE PARTY OR THEIR PARK PASSES MUST BE PRESENT TO REQUEST DAS.
DAS WILL BE LINKED TO THE TICKET OF THE PERSON DAS WAS ISSUED TO. THE TICKETS OF OTHER MEMBERS OF THE PARTY WILL BE LINKED TO THE DAS HOLDER.
Guest (parent or responsible person if guest is not able to sign) must sign terms and conditions for the DAS
- agree they understand how the program works
- agree to not abuse the DAS
- agree they will not use it for commercial gain (like leading tours) or give it to someone else
- DAS can be revoked if this contract is breached
*How long will it be issued for?*

DAS will be issued for length of stay _up to_ 14 days, depending on the guest's ticket entitlement/length of stay
- 'proofs' given as an example included a resort key or something else showing dates for a stay; valid multiday park ticket
- guests with Annual Passes may have their DAS valid for up to 60 days

AS OF NOVEMBER 2014, DISNEYLAND IS NO LONGER ISSUING PAPER DAS CARDS.
A PICTURE WILL STILL BE TAKEN OF THE PERSON DAS WAS ISSUED TO AND THE DAS HOLDER OR RESPONSIBLE PERSON (like parent) WILL STILL NEED TO READ AND SIGN THAT THEY AGREE WITH THE CONDITIONS.
*Where will I get a Return Time?*

DAS is for the use of the person it was issued to and can't be used for attractions they will not be going on/experiencing
Guest using a DAS will get a Return Time for the attraction they want to visit.
- Return times will be for the current wait time minus 10-15 minutes.
- If current wait is 10 minutes or less (many reports say 20 minutes or less), the guest will be directed to use the regular queue.
- the CM (Cast Member) will scan the park ticket and issue a Return Time, which will generally be the posted Standby wait time minus 10 minutes.
AS OF NOVEMBER 2014, DISNEYLAND IS ELECTRONICALLY ISSUING DAS RETURN TIMES. 
THESE CAN STILL BE OBTAINED AT THE KIOSKS, BUT ALSO AT SOME ATTRACTIONS - specifically those with queues that are not wheelchair/ECV accessible. Those attractions issue Return Times without DAS to guests with wheelchairs /ECVs. 
THE DASHOLDER DOES NOT NEED TO BE PRESENT, BUT WHOEVER IS GETTING THE DAS RETURN TIME MUST BE A GUEST LINKED ELECTRONICALLY TO THE DAS.
Guests at Disneyland Resort will go to Guest Relations kiosks scattered in each park
at Disneyland
- Main Street was by at Central Plaza
- Fantasyland is in front of The Mad Hatter
- New Orleans sq near haunted mansion
- Tomorrowland near little green men store command
at California Adventure
- Buena Vista street near the carthay circle red car trolley stop
- Carsland near Radiator Springs Racers
- 2 in Paradise Pier, one near Little Mermaid ride and one near CA Screamin

the DAS holder (person whose name and picture is on the DAS) does not need to be present to get a DAS Return Time
- would allow another member of the group to get a Return Time while the DAS holder is resting or doing something else.
- would allow the DAS holder to not approach the attraction until they will actually get in line
*How will the DAS work?*

Only 1 (one) Return Time can be active on the DAS at a time, which puts the DAS holder into a virtual 'standby queue'.
- Just like a guest actually standing in a standby queue, the DAS holder can't be in multiple standby queues at the same time. 
- Just like a guest actually standing in a standby queue, the DAS holder can also get Fastpasses using the Fastpass System.

AS OF NOVEMBER 2014, THE PROCESS AT DISNEYLAND IS ALL ELECTRONIC, NOT PAPER.
Once the Return Time has arrived, the DAS holder and their group go to the Fastpass or alternate entrance to redeem the Return TIme
- just like Fastpass, you won't be able to come earlier than the Return TIme
- CM will check the Return Time, look at picture on of the DAS holder that comes up on the Attraction display and confirm that the DAS holder is going to ride/experience the attraction
- the Return TIme will remain active until it is used (you won't lose your spot if late
When a Return Time has been redeemed, it is no longer active.
- when a DAS Holder has no active Return Times to redeem, they can get a new Return TIme
- a DAS holder can choose to cancel a DAS Return TIme by asking a CM
If an attraction is broken or not in operation, there is no current standby time and the DAS holder will not be able to get a Return Time.
_UNCONFIRMED RUMOR, PROBABLY TRUE: If the DAS holder returns to an attraction and it is broken or not operating:
-  a Fastpass to come back later MAY be given, depending on whether or not the attraction is expected to return to operation
- the DAS Return Time will be cleared, allowing the DAS holder to get another Return TIme_
DAS holders will not be able to use DAS for Celebrity Autographs  or most Character Meet & Greets (this is consistent with the way GACs worked)
_UNCONFIRMED RUMOR, PROBABLY TRUE: DAS holders will be able to get Return Times for Character Meet & Greets that have Fastpass or Fastpass Plus_
*I had specific stamps on  my GAC. How will they handle those?*

There will no longer be any stamps; guests with disabilities will either get a DAS or not
Attraction based procedures and accommodations will be set up to handle guests who previously used stamps
Guests needing assistance for visual or audio concerns will need to communicate their need to the attraction host
Attraction CMs have received training on the DAS system and how to accommodate guests at their attraction.
*I have a wheelchair, rollator, walker or ECV. Will I need a DAS card?*

If your only needs are mobility related, no you would not.
Majority of mobility device users will not have other needs and would not receive a DAS card
- Cast Members (CMs) can see the mobility device and will direct you to the correct place.
- Guidemap for Guests with disabilities available for each park lists the 'Mobility Entrance' for each attraction
- Disneyland is an older park and has some attractions that are not accessible thru the main (Standby) line.
- DCA was built with mostly Mainstream (accessible) lines and guests whose only needs are mobility based will use those Mainstream Lines.
Depending on attraction, guest may:
- be waiting in the Mainstream queue
- receive a return time _at the attraction_ (NOT at a kiosk)
- go directly to an alternate entrance at Disneyland Park (since the line is not accessible).
*My child doesn't have a wheelchair, but needs to stay in the stroller. Is this allowed?*

Strollers are not usually allowed inside buildings or in most queues, but can be if needed because of disability.
- may be helpful to create a 'safe haven' for a child with cognitive/sensory disabilities or autism
- may be needed by children with disabilities that affect muscle tone or stamina
Sticker tag will be placed on the stroller to show it is being used as a wheelchair. 
- park rental strollers would need a new sticker each day
- personal strollers in the past were usually tagged for the length of stay. THIS will probably continue.
If the only needs are mobility related, the child will not need a DAS; they will just need the sticker.
- If only for mobility related needs, the guest would follow the information above for guests using wheelchairs.
- if the child has additional needs besides using the stroller as a wheelchair, they would need a DAS to get those other needs met.

With a 'stroller as a wheelchair', you will be able to:
- take the stroller in all lines and buildings, even if strollers are not usually allowed
- use wheelchair entrances. 
- use the stroller until boarding. The child may need to be removed to board a ride, but you can leave the stroller at the boarding area. You won't need to fold it, but should take anything of value.
- use the stroller in shows and sit in the wheelchair seating areas. The child may need to get out of the stroller and sit on an adult's lap if the stroller seat is too low. Most shows have limited numbers of wheelchair spots, so wheelchair spots are sometimes filled before other seats are filled.
- use wheelchair areas for parades. Wheelchairs and strollers are usually parked very close together across the front of the viewing area. If your child needs to be away from others, this may not work for you, or you may need to park behind the front row to get more space. Areas sometimes fill quickly, so arrive early.
*What about Children on Make-a-Wish, Give Kids the World or other Wish type trips? Will they use DAS too?*
No.
Children on Wish Trips will be issued a separate lanyard and card that will provide the accommodations they need. Their lanyard will have some identification and date information.
Nothing will change for them on how they access attractions, only on what they will use.


STILL UNDER CONSTRUCTION.
MORE TO COME.............................


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## SueM in MN

This forum is a place of support and help, a positive environment.
Discussions on different forums, websites, Facebook, boards, blogs all over the internet have had a hard time remaining positive and many have had to close because of the types of comments. 
Because this can be a 'hot button' item to discuss, we are setting some guidelines for discussion on this thread.

1) Follow the Disboards rules found here: http://www.wdwinfo.com/guidelines.htm
No sarcasm, no personal attacks, no name-calling. In other words, play nice. As Thumper's mom said, "If you don't have something nice to say, don't say nothing at all."

2) Be respectful of others. Many people are afraid of the unknown and are feeling very vulnerable right now. People have different disabilities and needs; no one can know someone else's needs

3) No debates:
about whether Disney is right or wrong
about whether a change was needed
about asking for a doctor's letter or proof of disability
 about any particular disability being worse/more disabled/truly disabled/more in need of accommodation.

4) No posting of links to blogs or petitions. If you want to share them, share them by Private Message

*The information that follows is not 'official', but is as complete, up to date and accurate as possible. The Moderators are not employed by Disney and make no claims to be speaking for Disney.*

*The current changes may seem scary, but to me, this is all deja vue.*
In 2004, when Disneyland was changing from the Special Assistance Pass to the Guest Assistance Card, the same thing happened.
People wrote articles saying they could not possibly go to Disneyland if the Special Assistance Card went away. There were not as many blogs, but there were discussion boards and petitions begging Disney not to get rid of the Special Assistance Pass and replace it with the Guest Assistance Card.
The reasons for the change then were the same as now - abuse by non-disabled guests and lines for guests with disabilities sometimes longer than regular lines.
2004 article that sounds very familiar to now: http://articles.latimes.com/2004/jul/19/local/me-disabled19

STILL UNDER CONSTRUCTION ..........
MORE TO COME>>>>>>>>>


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## SueM in MN

*This post is going to be a collection of suggestions or things people felt have been/would be helpful for navigating the new system.
I will add things to this post and post 4 (planning for expansion) from suggestions made on this thread. *
1) My Disney Experience - a smart phone app from the Disney company that has maps, information about attractions, wait times
An internet connection is needed to use some features, like the wait times and interactive maps. Disney has recently added wi-fi in all the WDW parks.
Available in the iTunes app store, Google Play app store and Amazon app stores
Link to WDW version on the Disney website: https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/plan/my-disney-experience/mobile-apps/

2) _Guide for Guests with Cognitive Disabilities
https://secure.cdn1.wdpromedia.com/...de_For_Guests_With_Cognitive_Disabilities.pdf_
There Is a WDW version and a Disneyland version.
These are booklets developed by Disney with information that should be especially helpful for people visiting with cognitive or neurologic disabilities. They will be available as a printed copy at the parks and as an electronic version on the Disney World/Disneyland websites.
Helpful information about attractions will include:
- duration of attraction
- sensory information about attractions (sights, smells, sounds)


MORE TO COME..........
CONSTRUCTION BY YOU AS YOU ADD SUGGESTIONS TO THIS THREAD>>>>>


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## SueM in MN

*Suggestions and Tips*

[*]If you have a smartphone or tablet, download Disney wait times apps.  Rumor is that CMs will be using "My Disney Experience" app for WDW.  It is unknown exactly which app will be used for Disneyland, though the names "Disney Parks" (like the one for WDW, but for other Disney Parks) and "Disney Mobile Magic."  It cannot hurt to have other wait time apps on your phone, especially as they all have different capabilities (menus, etc).  Apparently you cannot get the ride times for the "official" Disney apps until you are in the park, so you must have your GPS enabled.  Having the other wait times apps will give you an idea of what to expect before you even get to the parks.  Having this will keep you from going all the way to a ride only to find out it is down, or that the wait time is too long for you.  This should help people plan, and take away a little of the unknown from your day.


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## IndianaPrincess

I am limiting my comments to just how this all relates to my family. My DS is high anxiety kid with selective mutism and has very little coping skills. He has behavior issues that flare when his anxiety goes up. I think this DAS will be okay for us in the end, but I do really feel for those families with children who will struggle with this new system.


Concerned about: 
-Our trip is next month, so any kinks will most likely not be worked out by then. I wish they would do a soft opening of this system (like just a few rides to begin) or have some non-disabled guests/families volunteer to try it out to see how the timing, lines, issues work while the GAC is still in use. 

-I hope the rumor about there being a CM at each ride is true. I was not looking forward to having to go back and forth to a kiosk for each ride and then wait in a line for a return pass. There's no way that there wouldn't be a line at the kiosks.

-I also hope the rumor about the disabled guest not needing to be there when getting a return pass is true. This would be a deal breaker if I have to have my DS do the kiosk shuffle and/or DAS presentation. He does well in his little bubble and that would be too much movement and interaction to work for us.


-What will happen when a ride has a wait of under 15 minutes? DS has issues with the actual line area and being able to go in the exit or fastpass lane really helps with that. Will they direct us to the regular line? If so, can I still ask for a return pass for 15 minutes because of the issue of the line area?  


Happy about:
-I hope that having a photo of the guest on the DAS will eliminate the questioning phase at each ride. DS's anxiety level goes up when strangers try to talk to him. Under the old system, the CM at the ride would ask who was Miles and then try to chat with him a bit. They weren't doing anything besides confirming that the person on the pass was present... and being friendly. But this would stress him out. I hope having the photo on it will avoid this from happening each ride. I was even thinking of writing something on the pass. 

-I think having us sign an agreement to get the DAS is a very needed addition. It will officially be wrong to use your pass for commercial reasons! This is getting to the root of the problem - hooray!

-We have done this type of system at a couple amusement parks in the Midwest. It has worked well for us. If the above mentioned rumors turn out being true and we can also get a stroller as wheelchair tag, then I think we'll be good to go and have a magical trip! Fingers crossed that implementation is smooth!


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## englishrose47

I will be travelling with a group of Developmentally Disabled , 8 of them and 2 escorts , In most cases when I do these trips I have never met the individuals before and while I have info on them and have spoken to their families or staff, their are 8 of them and I know already that I have at least 3 different needs , one with a visual problem ( get lost in crowds ) a hearing problem and  one with a cane . Not to mention some Dementia and just pain behavioral issues . I am wondering how I will explain to the CM or Guest Services all these different needs and still be able t all use the new system to ride the same ride at the same time !!!??


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## SueM in MN

IndianaPrincess said:


> -Our trip is next month, so any kinks will most likely not be worked out by then. I wish they would do a soft opening of this system (like just a few rides to begin) or have some non-disabled guests/families volunteer to try it out to see how the timing, lines, issues work while the GAC is still in use.


They have actually done small scale tests of parts of the system - specifically, giving out return passes at space Mountain and Radiator Springs Racers. So, they do know it worked for those attractions.


> -I hope the rumor about there being a CM at each ride is true. I was not looking forward to having to go back and forth to a kiosk for each ride and then wait in a line for a return pass. There's no way that there wouldn't be a line at the kiosks.


I don't know what the final is on that.
The first rumors were at the attraction, then some people said that would not work for their child because they would not understand coming to an attraction, but not riding it.
The next rumors were kiosks away from the attractions to avoid that issue.
But  people said that would be too much backtracking.


> -I also hope the rumor about the disabled guest not needing to be there when getting a return pass is true. This would be a deal breaker if I have to have my DS do the kiosk shuffle and/or DAS presentation. He does well in his little bubble and that would be too much movement and interaction to work for us.


I think that rumor is probably true and would go along with CMs at individual attractions. If someone could not backtrack or go to the attraction until time to ride, that would meet their concerns. 


> -What will happen when a ride has a wait of under 15 minutes? DS has issues with the actual line area and being able to go in the exit or fastpass lane really helps with that. Will they direct us to the regular line? If so, can I still ask for a return pass for 15 minutes because of the issue of the line area?


i know that going right in with a wait of 15 minutes or less is what done at many other parks. I don't have confirmation for sure that Disney is doing that, but it is pretty likely.
At that point, with that short of a wait, I think (but don't know) that they would work with you for whatever accessis available..
Your wait would be the same, wherever you are going in.


> Happy about:
> -I hope that having a photo of the guest on the DAS will eliminate the questioning phase at each ride. DS's anxiety level goes up when strangers try to talk to him. Under the old system, the CM at the ride would ask who was Miles and then try to chat with him a bit. They weren't doing anything besides confirming that the person on the pass was present... and being friendly. But this would stress him out. I hope having the photo on it will avoid this from happening each ride. I was even thinking of writing something on the pass.


I'm not sure how much space there will be to write anything on the photo side, but if you keep it short and to the point, they would probably see it.
I'm glad for the pictures too. My DD is not physically capable of speaking, so can't respond if they ask her.
-I think having us sign an agreement to get the DAS is a very needed addition. 





> It will officially be wrong to use your pass for commercial reasons! This is getting to the root of the problem - hooray!


Yes.
I think it will prove useful if anyone tried tour guiding again - you can't say you didn't know about it if you signed an agreement


> -We have done this type of system at a couple amusement parks in the Midwest. It has worked well for us. If the above mentioned rumors turn out being true and we can also get a stroller as wheelchair tag, then I think we'll be good to go and have a magical trip! Fingers crossed that implementation is smooth!


i didn't have time to write it yet, but California is getting the same 'luggage tag' type stroller tag that WDW has been using.

It will be used all by itself for children who need a stroller in line, but not DAS.
And, with DAS, it can also be used.

There are a few more unknowns with DL than WDW because of less attractions that are Mainstream, but the program will be very similar.


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## Aladora

Thanks for the work you put into this!



SueM in MN said:


> *Where can I find Guest Relations at xxxxxxxxxxxx?*



I wanted to add this info for anyone going to DL and DCA.

Guest Relations can be found in the DL park at City Hall. When you enter the park, it will be on your left just beside the Firehall.

Guest Relations can be found in DCA on Buena Vista Street. When you enter the park, it will be on your left directly across the street from the Red Car Trolley stop.


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## cmwade77

Aladora said:


> Thanks for the work you put into this!
> 
> 
> 
> I wanted to add this info for anyone going to DL and DCA.
> 
> Guest Relations can be found in the DL park at City Hall. When you enter the park, it will be on your left just beside the Firehall.
> 
> Guest Relations can be found in DCA on Buena Vista Street. When you enter the park, it will be on your left directly across the street from the Red Car Trolley stop.


Also, should be noted that the primary entrance has stairs, but there is a ramp by the fire station at DL park.


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## SueM in MN

Aladora said:


> Thanks for the work you put into this!
> 
> 
> 
> I wanted to add this info for anyone going to DL and DCA.
> 
> Guest Relations can be found in the DL park at City Hall. When you enter the park, it will be on your left just beside the Firehall.
> 
> Guest Relations can be found in DCA on Buena Vista Street. When you enter the park, it will be on your left directly across the street from the Red Car Trolley stop.





cmwade77 said:


> Also, should be noted that the primary entrance has stairs, but there is a ramp by the fire station at DL park.



Thank to both of you. 
I copied and pasted from the WDW one, but didn't have time to add the correct info


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## Spoot

I might be one of the few people, but I'm actually a little disappointed to read that they might be getting rid of the kiosks.  I think that the kiosks would have worked better for us - no issue with explaining why we are going up to the ride, but not riding and (assuming that the kiosks were well located) less back tracking (especially if one could have gotten a return time for a ride located in a different section of the park).

This is the best resource I've found for this change (I've been searching) - thanks so much!


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## clanmcculloch

One thing I haven't seen addressed is how will shows with the mob waiting areas be handled?  We currently go to shows at Philharmagic and Monster's Inc Laugh Floor at times where we'll get into the next show regardless of where we wait so we're in the same show with or without our GAC.  The only way we can go though is if we can wait outside of that mob.  For the most part we've been able to wait in the wheelchair area which works for us because it has clearly defined boundaries and people aren't pressing in really closely.  At some shows like ITTBAB and Muppets we're able to stay back from the mob and don't have CMs insisting we push in closer so we don't need an alternate waiting area but in others they really insist that everybody push together and if we're forced to do that then we can't stay (we've had to skip VOTLM for several years because of this).  A consistent rule of some kind about this would be VERY helpful.  I sure hope they've taken it into consideration.  I'm watching closely for some kind of news about the accommodations (if any) for these kinds of waiting areas.



Spoot said:


> I might be one of the few people, but I'm actually a little disappointed to read that they might be getting rid of the kiosks.  I think that the kiosks would have worked better for us - no issue with explaining why we are going up to the ride, but not riding and (assuming that the kiosks were well located) less back tracking (especially if one could have gotten a return time for a ride located in a different section of the park).
> 
> This is the best resource I've found for this change (I've been searching) - thanks so much!



^
This!  I understand that families with more than 1 adult can send somebody to the attraction to get the RT but what about families with only 1 adult?  That child may not be able to understand going to the attraction and then leaving to come back later to ride.  It's one of the reasons FPs haven't worked for some families.  The kiosks would have solved that issue.  Hopefully some of the smart folks around here can help come up with options for those who can't go to the attraction to get a RT if that's what ends up happening.


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## Aladora

clanmcculloch said:


> One thing I haven't seen addressed is how will shows with the mob waiting areas be handled?  We currently go to shows at Philharmagic and Monster's Inc Laugh Floor at times where we'll get into the next show regardless of where we wait so we're in the same show with or without our GAC.  The only way we can go though is if we can wait outside of that mob.  For the most part we've been able to wait in the wheelchair area which works for us because it has clearly defined boundaries and people aren't pressing in really closely.  At some shows like ITTBAB and Muppets we're able to stay back from the mob and don't have CMs insisting we push in closer so we don't need an alternate waiting area but in others they really insist that everybody push together and if we're forced to do that then we can't stay (we've had to skip VOTLM for several years because of this).  A consistent rule of some kind about this would be VERY helpful.  I sure hope they've taken it into consideration.  I'm watching closely for some kind of news about the accommodations (if any) for these kinds of waiting areas.



I *think* this question is about WDW? I've never heard of a few of these shows at DL/DCA.


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## TreeSapp

Oops! WDW question - my bad


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## clanmcculloch

Aladora said:


> I *think* this question is about WDW? I've never heard of a few of these shows at DL/DCA.



Oops!  A bunch of those were WDW ones.  ITTBAB and Muppets are shows at DL and not everybody can manage them the same way that we do and currently need to use alternate waiting areas though so it is still relevant to DL but I definitely mentioned WDW shows.  I'll be watching for how both parks handle these types of waiting areas.


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## Aladora

clanmcculloch said:


> Oops!  A bunch of those were WDW ones.  ITTBAB and Muppets are shows at DL and not everybody can manage them the same way that we do and currently need to use alternate waiting areas though so it is still relevant to DL but I definitely mentioned WDW shows.  I'll be watching for how both parks handle these types of waiting areas.



I can help out a bit with the Muppets question.

We've seen Muppets no fewer than 10 times over the last 4 trips and have never been in the waiting area with more than maybe 25 other guests. It might be that we have not hit a super busy time but we've been at the end of August, middle of March, end of April and middle of September and the show has never been busy.

There has always been plenty of open space in the waiting area for people to wait, at least in our experiences. This is our 8 year old's favourite show so we go back often!

Never been to ITTBAB, so no help there, sorry!


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## clanmcculloch

DL really does have a lot less of these than WDW, doesn't it?  I hadn't even noticed.  We had pretty good timing with both Muppets, ITTBAB, and Turtle Talk (lots more than 25 people at Muppets but still plenty of room to stand back) where we had plenty of room so we didn't use our GAC.  The only other place I can think of at DL that have this kind of things is Captain EO andI can't imagine this every filling up enough where you can't stand back.  Hmmmm.... I guess touring plans really can take care of this at DL.

To quote Emily Litella (Gilda Radner).... never mind.


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## I Love Pluto

I don't know how this DAS system will work, but I will abide by whatever I have to.  I want to see Mickey & friends!

Can you imagine being the person behind the desk on Day 1 of DAS - trying to remember all of the changes?  Worse yet - pity the poor individual writing and amending all of the changes!

Good luck to all of us as we use DAS for the first time.  My first will be in December - 2 days after Christmas!  Let's make a pact with each other that no DIS member will raise their voice in anger to a CM while trying the new system.  Put on the happy face, even if upset.  We can do it!


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## cmwade77

I Love Pluto said:
			
		

> I don't know how this DAS system will work, but I will abide by whatever I have to.  I want to see Mickey & friends!
> 
> Can you imagine being the person behind the desk on Day 1 of DAS - trying to remember all of the changes?  Worse yet - pity the poor individual writing and amending all of the changes!
> 
> Good luck to all of us as we use DAS for the first time.  My first will be in December - 2 days after Christmas!  Let's make a pact with each other that no DIS member will raise their voice in anger to a CM while trying the new system.  Put on the happy face, even if upset.  We can do it!


The only way I will be upset is I'd the new system caused me to routinely have to wait longer than everyone else. This is supposed to help prevent that, but I can see how it could happen.


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## Twende

We arrive in DW on the day this rolls out.  We are making a quick long weekend trip to do MNSSHP.  

I am nervous about all the changes but I am thankful that we will get to test this new system before our big family and friends trip in Nov.

Our needs for this trip do not include a problem with waiting in lines or crowded areas.  Our needs revolve more around visual problems, poor low light vision, and problems navigating steps.  Do we get a DAS for these or do we have to find a CM to talk to before we enter a line and explain everything to them?


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## luv2sleep

We arrive at DL on 10/7 and then I'll have to switch to use the DAS system on that first day on 10/9. I hope it goes smoothly.


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## smidgy

I had specific stamps on my GAC. How will they handle those?
There will no longer be any stamps; guests with disabilities will either get a DAS or not 
Attraction based procedures and accommodations will be set up to handle guests who previously used stamps 
The stamps were problematic in several ways
- the stamps were very general; for example guests with visual disabilities might get:* Allow Guest to sit in front row*
***********
I guess I don't understand how this would be "problematic"

this guest has a very low area of vision.   they need to sit up close to see much of anything.    they would like to enjoy the show. they know they will not see as mucj as the rest of the people, but would like to see as much as they can..    what is the problem?

we will be touring dlr and DCA for the 1st (and probalby the last) tme next week..   wouldn't you know it? oct 9 falls in the middle of our trip.
  no.. we are NOT famiiar with the GAC,we only started to tryi it. the eye disease is degenerative, so only now becoming a major issue.    so the 1st part of the trip.. GAC which is new to us, the 2nd half DAS, which I guess, has decided to ignorre stamps for the visually impaired?
sigh.......


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## smidgy

as far as navigating the dark, convoluted lines. the DAS would work for us.  the problem for us is going back and forth in the dark, bumping into the posts, people walking on our heels cause we are too slow, etc.
  now if only Disey would recognize LOW vision (not totally blind). that some people can still see, but not as far..when it concerns shows like illuminations, WOC, fantasmic etc.


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## KPeveler

smidgy said:


> I had specific stamps on my GAC. How will they handle those?
> There will no longer be any stamps; guests with disabilities will either get a DAS or not
> Attraction based procedures and accommodations will be set up to handle guests who previously used stamps
> The stamps were problematic in several ways
> - the stamps were very general; for example guests with visual disabilities might get:* Allow Guest to sit in front row*
> ***********
> I guess I don't understand how this would be "problematic"
> 
> this guest has a very low area of vision.   they need to sit up close to see much of anything.    they would like to enjoy the show. they know they will not see as mucj as the rest of the people, but would like to see as much as they can..    what is the problem?
> 
> we will be touring dlr and DCA for the 1st (and probalby the last) tme next week..   wouldn't you know it? oct 9 falls in the middle of our trip.
> no.. we are NOT famiiar with the GAC,we only started to tryi it. the eye disease is degenerative, so only now becoming a major issue.    so the 1st part of the trip.. GAC which is new to us, the 2nd half DAS, which I guess, has decided to ignorre stamps for the visually impaired?
> sigh.......



The reason it was often problematic, and I know of two friends who personally had this problem, is that there are often many more things people with vision issues could need.  For example, my friend had problems in dark queues, or going from light to dark quickly.  But the only stamp they had for all "vision issues" was to let a guest sit in the front row of a theatre.  This stamp did nothing about queues, attractions, nothing.   And when she went to Guest Relations, it took her explaining a few times before they understood her issues with queues and light and everything...  I think that is what Sue meant with "problematic" - not that the person with a vision issue would not need a front row, but that the person may need more than that, but the stamp did nothing for it.


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## smidgy

KPeveler said:


> The reason it was often problematic, and I know of two friends who personally had this problem, is that there are often many more things people with vision issues could need.  For example, my friend had problems in dark queues, or going from light to dark quickly.  But the only stamp they had for all "vision issues" was to let a guest sit in the front row of a theatre.  This stamp did nothing about queues, attractions, nothing.   And when she went to Guest Relations, it took her explaining a few times before they understood her issues with queues and light and everything...  I think that is what Sue meant with "problematic" - not that the person with a vision issue would not need a front row, but that the person may need more than that, but the stamp did nothing for it.



i get it now. well,  we once got both stamps.  alternate entrance adn sit in front.  cause my husband has all those issues you described.(I guess it's ok to mentiont he stamps now?)
  the new system, going to the kiosk and getting a return time to use the alternate entrance would work.. so he could avoid trying to navigate the dark, twisty queues, esp after coming in from the light.
  but I don't see any accomodations for sitting in the front of shows.


----------



## sammatt

Did I read somewhere that guests using wheelchairs will NOT need the DAS Card? If not, will they just use the alternative entrances as usual, or will they be given different return cards of some sort?


----------



## KPeveler

If your needs are met by having a wheelchair, then you will NOT need a DAS card.  You will be directed through the wheelchair accessible queue.  Sometimes that will be a separate queue going through the exit or another entrance.  Sometimes the main queue is accessible.  Even in DL, some queues are mainstreamed, or are to a point.  For example, Buzz Lightyear is mainstreamed.  Star Tours is mainstreamed to a point, and once the queue hits the stairs, wheelchairs are directed to the side.  

All queues in DCA are accessible, so people with wheelchairs, scooters, or other mobility needs will be directed to the standard queue.  You also have the option of obtaining a Fastpass or using the Single Rider queue (again, these are accessible in DCA).

In Disneyland, I am not sure yet how they will handle people with wheelchairs.  While there are very few attractions in all of WDW that are not mainstreamed, almost nothing in Disneyland Park is accessible to wheelchairs.

I would be surprised if all attractions that were not accessible handed out Return Time Cards to people with wheelchairs, if only because there are so many - I would end up with literally a dozen cards at a time.  Also, it would make it very confusing for guests with a DAS.  Part of the point is to reduce abuse, and if all it took to get a Return Time was to rent a wheelchair... that would be mayhem.

I would not be surprised if the system varied, depending on how crowded the park is.  Most of the time, I would expect there to be a standard wheelchair queue, like exists now at Space Mountain.  And when a guest with a DAS card Return Time came in (one who could not go through the non-accessible FP line), they would be sent down with the next group of people with wheelchairs to the attraction.

They may hand out return times on peak days or just at big attractions, but in general, I do not find a long line of wheelchairs waiting for Pinocchio.

I have no confirmation that wheelchair Attraction Return Times will be issued in Disneyland yet.  I am talking to people in park, but I have not heard anything about this.  What I had heard was that wheelchair users and their parties would still be handled as before, which may mean a separate queue.  Disneyland may let WDW test these Return Cards first, before applying them to a much larger number of rides needing them in DL.  

Again, so much has to wait until Oct 9th, or until we get credible information.


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## HappiestHaunt

I have read on another board that unlike WDW where each attraction will have someone to mark the DAS, the CA parks will have a few scattered Kiosks  Here is what was posted from a CA CM:

"We will use kiosks here; four kiosks to start at Disneyland, three to start at DCA. The card holder does not have to go to the kiosk to get a return time, but the card holder who has the picture on the DAS MUST be at the ride and go with the party on the attraction to use it.

If a parent doesn't want a child's picture taken, the parent can have their photo taken instead. Or, if the photo is declined entirely, CM's at the attractions will need to see photo ID that matches the name on the DAS in order for the DAS to be used at the attraction during the return time."

This system may unfortunately negatively affect some folks who relay on the current GAC and the upcoming DAS. If they do not have an able bodied runner, each ride will necessitate a trip back and forth to Kiosks and then the rides. This is not factoring in the possible line waits at kiosks and line waits again at rides with other DAS and nonDAS users such as individuals in mobility assistance devices.  So they will be required to take time and energy to obtain the assistance for the alternative line, then return to the ride and potential run into the same lines as before (particularly for rides like Pirates or It's A Small world) that they have had in the past when they would simply get in line and show the card.  I do hope that as they roll out this policy, Disney Company does tweak it (especially in CA). Otherwise it might prove to be too much for users who truly aren't capable of doing so much on top of getting around the parks, causing them to abandon the parks altogether.


----------



## cmwade77

HappiestHaunt said:


> I have read on another board that unlike WDW where each attraction will have someone to mark the DAS, the CA parks will have a few scattered Kiosks  Here is what was posted from a CA CM:
> 
> "We will use kiosks here; four kiosks to start at Disneyland, three to start at DCA. The card holder does not have to go to the kiosk to get a return time, but the card holder who has the picture on the DAS MUST be at the ride and go with the party on the attraction to use it.
> 
> If a parent doesn't want a child's picture taken, the parent can have their photo taken instead. Or, if the photo is declined entirely, CM's at the attractions will need to see photo ID that matches the name on the DAS in order for the DAS to be used at the attraction during the return time."
> 
> This system may unfortunately negatively affect some folks who relay on the current GAC and the upcoming DAS. If they do not have an able bodied runner, each ride will necessitate a trip back and forth to Kiosks and then the rides. This is not factoring in the possible line waits at kiosks and line waits again at rides with other DAS and nonDAS users such as individuals in mobility assistance devices.  So they will be required to take time and energy to obtain the assistance for the alternative line, then return to the ride and potential run into the same lines as before (particularly for rides like Pirates or It's A Small world) that they have had in the past when they would simply get in line and show the card.  I do hope that as they roll out this policy, Disney Company does tweak it (especially in CA). Otherwise it might prove to be too much for users who truly aren't capable of doing so much on top of getting around the parks, causing them to abandon the parks altogether.


From what I have been told, that is not quite accurate. In CA, they will have kiosks, but you will also be able to get the return times at the attraction as well. It will be your choice which you wish to do. Additionally, they are supposed to subtract any wait time at the kiosk and a reasonable amount of time for travel to/from the kiosks from the wait time.

I am not saying the system will be perfect, in fact, you can already begin to see the complexity of the system.

That being said, they could potentially place the kiosks strategically to where you get a return time, go on some rides that don't need a return time, then go on the ride that does, then go to the next kiosk to get another time all with little to no backtracking.


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## OneMoreTry

I see I posted on the DL thread instead of WDW.  Sorry.  I deleted.


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## KPeveler

Disneyland is much smaller, so getting to the kiosk will be easier.

I assume that while there will be a "stand by" accessible line for folks with wheelchairs, etc (Like there is now at Peter Pan, Pirates, Space, etc), that people with a DAS would go to the "front" of the wheelchair line.  (Assuming I get a DAS card...) Whether or not I had a wheelchair, rather than waiting in that awful line at Peter Pan or Space (neither of which I can handle most of the time) I will be waiting somewhere safe, and then I will be with the next group of wheelchairs sent down to the ride at Space Mountain.  I assume that people who physically can will be sent in the FP entrance of as many rides as possible.

This part is unconfirmed - there may be attraction return time cards given out for people with wheelchairs at the big rides, but that will just result in a queue of folks in wheelchairs who have "waited their turn" who will be very upset if people with a DAS are pulled in ahead.  At the same time, the point of the DAS is that some people cannot wait in these queues that would form...

It is going to be complex, and I know there will be a learning curve.  The best thing we can do is be patient and polite.


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## HappiestHaunt

I can see it will definitely be a wait and see for many of us. It would be an interesting idea to have a separate mobile assistance line from a DAS line. Some areas of the park (think fantasyland) there is little room for two separate lines at each ride.

It sounded like they are going to make DAS users use the same alternative lines as before, which would translate to the same line offered wheelchairs at non-accessible lines without needing the DAS. This thread is the first where someone has mentioned that DAS users would be given any priority over wheelchair guests at these lines.  It does seem odd that anyone in a wheelchair can simply be redirected to the alternative line without any of the additional wait time that the DAS user must have.  Since they are not required to have a DAS as well, then the simple redirect at those rides would be like they still had the old style GAC. 

Whew, you are right though, there are many ins and outs.  Hopefully the transition will not be too rough on cm's and guests alike.


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## KPeveler

HappiestHaunt said:


> I can see it will definitely be a wait and see for many of us. It would be an interesting idea to have a separate mobile assistance line from a DAS line. Some areas of the park (think fantasyland) there is little room for two separate lines at each ride.
> 
> It sounded like they are going to make DAS users use the same alternative lines as before, which would translate to the same line offered wheelchairs at non-accessible lines without needing the DAS. This thread is the first where someone has mentioned that DAS users would be given any priority over wheelchair guests at these lines.  It does seem odd that anyone in a wheelchair can simply be redirected to the alternative line without any of the additional wait time that the DAS user must have.  Since they are not required to have a DAS as well, then the simple redirect at those rides would be like they still had the old style GAC.
> 
> Whew, you are right though, there are many ins and outs.  Hopefully the transition will not be too rough on cm's and guests alike.



I just see no way other than having guests with a DAS card go in front of the wheelchair accesssible queue...

Say I have a DAS card, in addition to my full-time wheelchair use (not something I can stand up from).  I get my DAS Return Pass, wait the 75 minutes for my turn on Space Mountain, and then go to the exit of the ride, the only accessible entrance.

It would be not only unfair, but actually illegal, to make me go to the back of the wheelchair queue, which (for Space) is usually about as long as the stand-by queue.  It would be illegal to make me wait twice.

And for a ride like Pirates, with that horrible overflow queue in the middle of NOS, there is no way I can wait in that - that is WHY I am getting the DAS card in the first place. (again, assuming I get one).

I cannot safely wait in queues like that...  that is the reason for the DAS card.  So I assume that they will be pulling people who have waited their turn already, and not making us wait twice.  Especially since the reason a lot of people will be getting the DAS will be to avoid waiting in the sun in the middle of the stimulation of Fantasyland.

And I really do not think that most of Fantasyland will be included in the DAS system - there is almost never a wait for the alternate entrances/accessible entrances for anything but Dumbo, Peter Pan, and Alice in Wonderland.  Also Small World, but that is outside the "classics" area and has room.  Those are the only attractions I expect to have the DAS o a regular basis from Fantasyland.

I am not sure how DAS will be handled at the rest, but I would not be surprised if the person would just show their DAS ID card to go in the exit of Snow White - there is never a line for this.

Also, I think there will be FAR fewer people issued a DAS ID than people think - it will definitely be FAR fewer than the number of GAC cards issued today.  So it would not be impossible for the people waiting with wheelchairs, especially since only parties with a wheelchair user would delay their ride entry.  A DAS user who did not have a mobility device would just get on, and not count toward that "number" of wheelchair users allowed on a ride at a time.

I think a lot is going to depend on crowd levels but if I already went to City Hall, got a DAS ID, went to a kiosk/ride, got a Return Time for Pirates, and then got to the ride and was told that because I had a wheelchair, I had to wait in the back of the line (in the sun, in the mob, all the things I must avoid)...  there would be words.  Polite, but insistent words, that I had already waited my turn...  

I don't know quite how they will handle it, but I do know sending the person to the back of the wheelchair line may be putting that person directly into the place they needed to avoid.


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## smidgy

so katy, do you think they will have accomodations after oct. 9 for sitting in front of  shows?  thanks! we'll be there for3 days before the change, then there for 3 days after. figures...


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## SueM in MN

smidgy said:


> so katy, do you think they will have accomodations after oct. 9 for sitting in front of  shows?  thanks! we'll be there for3 days before the change, then there for 3 days after. figures...


What has been written in most places I have read is this quote:

-Guests needing Front Row Seating will not need a DAS. Attraction based procedures and accommodation will be used.

This means that each attraction where front row seating is available will have a procedure for how to handle that need. 

I know that at WDW, there were people who had gotten a GAC for front row seatng, but found that just telling the CM greeter what they needed actually worked better than the stamp. In some cases, front row much not be the best seating for a particular person's issues, so they needed to explain anyway.
So, that may be part of what they are planning as part of the attraction based procedures.


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## KPeveler

smidgy said:


> so katy, do you think they will have accomodations after oct. 9 for sitting in front of  shows?  thanks! we'll be there for3 days before the change, then there for 3 days after. figures...



I do not think there will be a DAS card or anything involved in this part.  I think you would just approach the CM at the entrance to any show (I am trying to think of which shows have you line up beforehand - Aladdin, Muppets, and Magical Map.  Capt Eo.  Fantasy Faire, too, if you want to see a show).

I would just go early to the show (for example, Mickey and the Magical Map opens the house somewhere around 25 minutes early, so if you got there 10 minutes before show time, it would not matter what GAC you had, those seats were long since full).  Go early, tell a CM that you have a vision impairment (?  I am not sure what else gets you front row) and that you need to sit in the front row to be able to see anything.

For Aladdin and Magical Map, I would plan on getting there at least 30-40 minutes before the show.  Like I said, Magical Map opens the house 25 minutes before showtime, and Aladdin opens closer to 15 minutes before.

For Muppets it is continuous shows, and there is always a CM at the line entrance, and where you go into the pre-show.  There is also usually a CM in the preshow area.  I would tell the first CM you encounter, and they should be able to help you.  It is a 3D movie, so much of it makes so difference where you sit, but they should be able to direct you to the front.

Capt Eo is the same, with continuous shows, so again just talk to the CM when you get there and they should be able to help you.

Fantasy Faire's Royal Theatre has very cute shows, Tangled in the morning and Beauty and the Beast in the afternoon.  These shows can fill up fast.  The front part of the seating area is filled with carpet circles, and kids and some adults sit on the floor in front of the stage.  There are benches in back of these - again, just talk to the CM early (when I go to see the sign language interpreters, and need a certain spot, I generally check in about 30 minutes prior, basically at the end of the show before).  Just tell them you have a vision impairment (or whatever) and need to sit in the front row.  They will generally do their best.  

This show fills up every time, even on non-crowded days, so there may already be a long line when you get there.  I would plan an extra "show" as padding - that is, try not to go to the last Tangled show if seeing it is a must.  That way if the line for the 12:15 Tangled is too long for the CMs to accommodate you when you arrive, they may be able to say "Plan to come back for the 1:30 show" and then they will reserve seats as soon as the previous show clears.  I sincerely hope that you will not need to do this, but I tell people who have no disability/special need to do this, because these shows can be very popular and it is a *very* small space.  It fits maybe 200 people, including those sitting on the floor, while the other theatres I mentioned fit closer to 1800 people.

Billy Hill and the Hillbillies is in the Big Thunder Ranch arena right now, and there is no seating control - people just come and go as they please.  In this case, just get there about 20-30 minutes early, and if need be ask a CM to help you.  Generally you do not need to see much for this show as much as hear it, so you should do okay.

I completely forget It's Tough to be a Bug exists, and I almost never see people go in there. I have never been in the theatre, so I can tell you nothing about it (sorry) but I am sure a CM can help you.  It is continuous like the other two 3D shows, so there should not be a problem.

I guess the rule of thumb for the 3 theatres (Aladdin, Magical Map, and Fantasy Faire Royal Theatre) is get there early!  I say about 30-40 minutes early, or even stop by the theatre earlier in the day and ask what you should do (especially with Aladdin).  And this goes for both the GAC and DAS system!  Even though you will have a card for the GAC days, and will need to tell people on the DAS days, you will still need to get there early.  

For the continuous shows (Capt Eo, Muppets, and ITTBAB), speak to the first CM you see, and they will direct you from there.

Unfortunately, for the nighttime shows and fireworks, the GAC never helped anyway.  There has never been a "front row" section for Fantasmic or World of Color, although speaking to a CM cannot hurt - they may have a suggestion for the best place to sit/stand.

I know this was very long, but I hope it helped some.  I was hoping to answer as many questions as I could anticipate about vision impairment/front row GACs and shows in theatres.  Hope this helps!


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## KPeveler

I added this to the "suggestions" post (Post #4), but I wanted to add it to the end of the thread, so all those subscribed will get the added info.

If you have a smartphone or tablet, download Disney wait times apps. Rumor is that CMs will be using "My Disney Experience" app for WDW. It is unknown exactly which app will be used for Disneyland, though the names "Disney Parks" (like the one for WDW, but for other Disney Parks) and "Disney Mobile Magic." It cannot hurt to have other wait time apps on your phone, especially as they all have different capabilities (menus, etc). 

Apparently you cannot get the ride times for the "official" Disney apps until you are in the park, so you must have your GPS enabled. Having the other wait times apps will give you an idea of what to expect before you even get to the parks. Having this will keep you from going all the way to a ride only to find out it is down, or that the wait time is too long for you. This should help people plan, and take away a little of the unknown from your day.

This will keep people from going all the way across the park only to find that the wait time for the desired is too long to wait.  This will let you check for the ride with the wait time that works best for your current schedule and the wait times for the rides/shows surrounding it.  If you know you are about to take an hour to eat, then look for a ride you desire with a very long wait time.  If you happen to see a "must do" with a short wait time at that moment, then you can snag a Return Pass.

There are several apps out there that are free or low cost.  Other than the official Disney ones, the wait times app that I like the best is "MouseWait" - there is one for WDW and one for DL.  

This is just one more tool available to help people be able to plan a little better.


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## smidgy

thank you SO MUCH sue and katy!!! it does help.   I love the "forgot to be a bug exists"  we feel the same way about cpt. eo. and now that nebo can't see 3 D much anyway...   
  we always manage to get in the front for nemo the musical anyway.but we know the "drill there,.and  beauty and the beast.and lion king. we are newbies to DL, though, and ALladin is a must do.  (nebo loves the schmaltzY musicals, and he doesn't care if someone takes his "man card"..
  we just want to see some of the cool stuff at DL that they dont' have at WDW (we have never been there)  um.. while he still can...  (let's just say his vision isn't going t get any better, and leave it at that.  that's the "mantra" in our household right now.....)


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## smidgy

we have an early dinner reservation for 8 (maybe 6 now) fop big thunder ranch bbq.(for my bday dinner) will we be seeing the billy hill and the hlbillies? sounds fun!
  we are SO fish out of water.  over 20 trips to WDW, and first at DLR!  exciting!


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## HappiestHaunt

Billy Hill and the Hillbillies will be performing at the Ranch Round Up behind the eatery and the petting zoo.  So you can go see them, but your Big Thunder Ranch meal will not include them.  There is some nice small entertainment offered at the BBQ,that is themed to the Ranch. Im sorry, the name escapes me now, but its usually a guitar player and a singer sometimes a piano player.


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## cmwade77

KPeveler said:
			
		

> I added this to the "suggestions" post (Post #4), but I wanted to add it to the end of the thread, so all those subscribed will get the added info.
> 
> If you have a smartphone or tablet, download Disney wait times apps. Rumor is that CMs will be using "My Disney Experience" app for WDW. It is unknown exactly which app will be used for Disneyland, though the names "Disney Parks" (like the one for WDW, but for other Disney Parks) and "Disney Mobile Magic." It cannot hurt to have other wait time apps on your phone, especially as they all have different capabilities (menus, etc).
> 
> Apparently you cannot get the ride times for the "official" Disney apps until you are in the park, so you must have your GPS enabled. Having the other wait times apps will give you an idea of what to expect before you even get to the parks. Having this will keep you from going all the way to a ride only to find out it is down, or that the wait time is too long for you. This should help people plan, and take away a little of the unknown from your day.
> 
> This will keep people from going all the way across the park only to find that the wait time for the desired is too long to wait.  This will let you check for the ride with the wait time that works best for your current schedule and the wait times for the rides/shows surrounding it.  If you know you are about to take an hour to eat, then look for a ride you desire with a very long wait time.  If you happen to see a "must do" with a short wait time at that moment, then you can snag a Return Pass.
> 
> There are several apps out there that are free or low cost.  Other than the official Disney ones, the wait times app that I like the best is "MouseWait" - there is one for WDW and one for DL.
> 
> This is just one more tool available to help people be able to plan a little better.


Is there an official wait time app for Disneyland that works on newer Android phones? Any of the official apps that include Disneyland day they are not compatible with my Samsung Galaxy S4. I'd appreciate any info anyone has on this.


----------



## ain0004

Thank you for your time and effort answering the questions and laying the future plans out easily to understand.  Out DD who is autistic has benefited well from the program in the past.  I understand why it needed to change.  I have concerns she will not understand that we can just walk up there and ride the ride.  But we will have to make adjustments.  We will be traveling in the end of the month we hope to see some positive posts on how it works for families before us.


----------



## Aladora

KPeveler said:


> I added this to the "suggestions" post (Post #4), but I wanted to add it to the end of the thread, so all those subscribed will get the added info.
> 
> If you have a smartphone or tablet, download Disney wait times apps. Rumor is that CMs will be using "My Disney Experience" app for WDW. It is unknown exactly which app will be used for Disneyland, though the names "Disney Parks" (like the one for WDW, but for other Disney Parks) and "Disney Mobile Magic." It cannot hurt to have other wait time apps on your phone, especially as they all have different capabilities (menus, etc).
> 
> Apparently you cannot get the ride times for the "official" Disney apps until you are in the park, so you must have your GPS enabled. Having the other wait times apps will give you an idea of what to expect before you even get to the parks. Having this will keep you from going all the way to a ride only to find out it is down, or that the wait time is too long for you. This should help people plan, and take away a little of the unknown from your day.
> 
> This will keep people from going all the way across the park only to find that the wait time for the desired is too long to wait.  This will let you check for the ride with the wait time that works best for your current schedule and the wait times for the rides/shows surrounding it.  If you know you are about to take an hour to eat, then look for a ride you desire with a very long wait time.  If you happen to see a "must do" with a short wait time at that moment, then you can snag a Return Pass.
> 
> There are several apps out there that are free or low cost.  Other than the official Disney ones, the wait times app that I like the best is "MouseWait" - there is one for WDW and one for DL.
> 
> This is just one more tool available to help people be able to plan a little better.



This really sucks for those of us who are from out of the country! Getting a US data plan added to our phones costs a ridiculous amount of money so we just add texting and some US minutes to my husband's phone and leave mine off. Even so, that small addition costs us $40 just for texts and talk time! 

I wish DL and DCA would get wifi! I would be more than happy to buy whatever app they used but there is no way I am paying $100 just to find out how long the wait is for Space Mountain!


----------



## cmwade77

Aladora said:


> This really sucks for those of us who are from out of the country! Getting a US data plan added to our phones costs a ridiculous amount of money so we just add texting and some US minutes to my husband's phone and leave mine off. Even so, that small addition costs us $40 just for texts and talk time!
> 
> I wish DL and DCA would get wifi! I would be more than happy to buy whatever app they used but there is no way I am paying $100 just to find out how long the wait is for Space Mountain!



There are now some pretty good prepaid carrier deals in the U.S., to where as long as you have an unlocked phone, you could put their SIM in and pay what would amount to about $5 a day or so, depending on the carrier you choose and how long you are here. Some require at least a one month commitment, but some even offer daily plans.


----------



## KPeveler

I have no idea what app Disneyland will officially be using.  I can tell you I have the "Disney Mobile Magic" and the "My Disney Experience" (WDW) app for my Samsung Galaxy SIII (S3).  So both ARE available on the Android format.  I just searched for "Disney Parks" and found them.

I am not sure what is out there for people from out of country, if your phones do not work here....  There are ways to buy smart phones on a "pay as you go" plan, so you just pay for the month you are in Disney.

If you cannot download the official app for whatever reason, or do not like it, or whatever, try non-Disney wait times apps.  These will not be what CMs are using, so their return time may be different by a little (usually the wait times are common across the apps), but it will give you an idea.

I know this is not perfect, but I did want to post it as a suggestion and as another planning tool.


----------



## cmwade77

KPeveler said:


> I have no idea what app Disneyland will officially be using.  I can tell you I have the "Disney Mobile Magic" and the "My Disney Experience" (WDW) app for my Samsung Galaxy SIII (S3).  So both ARE available on the Android format.  I just searched for "Disney Parks" and found them.
> 
> I am not sure what is out there for people from out of country, if your phones do not work here....  There are ways to buy smart phones on a "pay as you go" plan, so you just pay for the month you are in Disney.
> 
> If you cannot download the official app for whatever reason, or do not like it, or whatever, try non-Disney wait times apps.  These will not be what CMs are using, so their return time may be different by a little (usually the wait times are common across the apps), but it will give you an idea.
> 
> I know this is not perfect, but I did want to post it as a suggestion and as another planning tool.


Unfortunately, the official one with Disneyland doesn't work on Android 4.2.2 or newer (such as on the Galaxy S4 or Note 3). I wish it did, but I have even tried getting the .APK file and installing it manually and all it gives is a white screen. 

Believe me, it's very frustrating, as I will definitely need the official app to determine wait times to figure out what I want to go on and when.

The non-disney ones are ok, if they have enough people inputting times in the parks that day, doesn't work very well on super busy days, as many people can't get on data long enough to submit wait times. Hopefully this will improve as the parks improve their cellular infrastructure.


----------



## KPeveler

cmwade77 said:


> Unfortunately, the official one with Disneyland doesn't work on Android 4.2.2 or newer (such as on the Galaxy S4 or Note 3). I wish it did, but I have even tried getting the .APK file and installing it manually and all it gives is a white screen.
> 
> Believe me, it's very frustrating, as I will definitely need the official app to determine wait times to figure out what I want to go on and when.
> 
> The non-disney ones are ok, if they have enough people inputting times in the parks that day, doesn't work very well on super busy days, as many people can't get on data long enough to submit wait times. Hopefully this will improve as the parks improve their cellular infrastructure.



I am sure Disney will be updating that app very soon, especially since they may end up needing it for the CMs in the park!

If you cannot use the "official" app yet, then I suggest downloading more than one of the other free wait times apps - I have *"MouseWait"* (app316.com) (usually pretty accurate, even on slow days, though of course it is not guaranteed), one called *"Disneyland Wait Times"* (VersaEdge Software LLC), and  *"Disneyland Lines"* (TouringPlans.com)

These are the ones I can find on my Samsung Galaxy S3.  If people have other wait times apps not listed here (other than the official ones from Disney) that you like, please post them.  I will be beginning a list in the "Suggestions" post (post 4) for people to try out.  Also, if there is a cost for the app you suggest, please list that as well.  Thanks!


----------



## SueM in MN

I believe some of those apps use other information besides current wait times submitted by people in the parks. 
I know that the app by touringplans.com displays current wait times and also uses their experience collecting information over the years to come up with what they believe is the actual time someone will wait.


----------



## cmwade77

SueM in MN said:


> I believe some of those apps use other information besides current wait times submitted by people in the parks.
> I know that the app by touringplans.com displays current wait times and also uses their experience collecting information over the years to come up with what they believe is the actual time someone will wait.


I did try the Touringplans.com one and everything had no wait according to them and it was a busy day. Maybe it was a glitch on the day that I tried it, but I don't know.

I certainly appreciate a list. For the iPhone, I love the Walkee App. They have a free wait times app and several different versions that you can pay for. I like their nicest one, it has great park maps and works very well, even when you don't have coverage. Of course it won't update without coverage, so wait times may be outdated in such a case, but you can still use it reliably at that point.


----------



## SueM in MN

New link to DAS FAQs on Disney Parks Blog:
http://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/disney-parks-disability-access-service-card-fact-sheet/

_Disney Parks have an unwavering commitment to providing a welcoming and inclusive environment and accessible experiences for guests.
Disney Parks is modifying the current Guest Assistance Card program, which provides access to attractions for guests with disabilities, so it can continue to serve the guests who truly need it. The new program is designed to provide the special experience guests have come to expect from Disney. It will also help control abuse that was, unfortunately, widespread and growing at an alarming rate.
The new Disability Access Service (DAS) Card will replace the Guest Assistance Card on Oct. 9. Guests at Walt Disney World Resort and Disneyland Resort can request a Disability Access Service Card at Guest Relations. DAS Cardholders will receive a return time for attractions based on the current wait time.
Disney Parks has long recognized and accommodated guests with varying needs. Guests can visit Guest Relations to discuss their individual situation, and Disney Parks will continue to provide assistance that is responsive to their unique circumstances.

*Frequently Asked Questions

What is a Disability Access Service Card and how does it work?*
The DAS Card is designed to accommodate guests who arent able to wait in a conventional queue environment due to a disability (including non-apparent disabilities). A Disability Access Service Card will be issued at Guest Relations main entrance locations and will offer guests a return time for attractions based on the current wait time. As soon as the Guest finishes one attraction, they can receive a return time for another. This service can be used in addition to Disneys FASTPASS Service and Disney FastPass+ service.

*What will Disney Parks do if a Guest is concerned the DAS Card doesnt meet their needs?*
Disney Parks have long recognized and accommodated guests with varying needs and will continue to work individually with guests with disabilities to provide assistance that is responsive to their unique circumstances. Guests should visit Guest Relations to discuss their individual needs.

*Who will be eligible for a Disability Access Service Card?*
Disney Parks goal is to accommodate guests who arent able to wait in a conventional queue environment due to a disability (including non-apparent disabilities). Guests should visit Guest Relations to discuss their assistance needs.

*How will guests get a Disability Access Service Card?*
A Disability Access Service Card will be issued at Guest Relations main entrance locations. Guests will participate in a registration process, which also includes having their photo taken.

*Why is Disney Parks doing this?*
Disney Parks is modifying the current Guest Assistance Card program so it can continue to serve the guests who truly need it. The new program is designed to provide the special experience guests have come to expect from Disney. Disney Parks also hopes it will help control abuse that was, unfortunately, widespread and growing at an alarming rate.

*Does the DAS Cardholder have to be present to obtain a return time at an attraction?*
No. Another member of the DAS Cardholders travel party may obtain a return time but the DAS Cardholder must board the attraction with his or her party.

*Where do DAS Cardholders go to receive return times?*
At Disneyland Resort, guests will go to Guest Relations kiosks located throughout the parks to receive a return time. At Walt Disney World Resort, guests will go to the attraction to receive a return time.
Does a DAS Cardholder have to ride the attraction at the exact return time listed?
No. Return times are valid until redeemed by the DAS Cardholder.

*How long is a DAS Card valid?*
A DAS card is valid for up to 14 days depending on a guests ticket entitlement.

*Is a DAS Card issued at one Disney theme park valid at other Disney theme parks?*
Yes, the card will be valid throughout the resort at which it was issued.

*Why doesnt Disney Parks ask for proof of disability, such as a doctors note?*
Disney Parks takes Guests at their word and there are legal restrictions around asking for proof.

*Is this the only service available to Guests with disabilities?*
Disney Parks offer a variety of services to guests with disabilities, such as Disneys Handheld Device that offers assistive listening, captioning and audio description. Additionally, Disney Parks has developed a Guide for Guests with Cognitive Disabilities. This serves as a tool on how best to experience its theme parks and is expected to be available online by mid-October.

Disney Parks will continue to provide excellent guest service and accessible experiences. Guests should visit Guest Relations at any park should they feel they need assistance due to a disability.

*Does a Guest whose disability is based on the necessity to use a wheelchair or scooter need a DAS Card?*
No, a Guest whose disability is based on the necessity to use a wheelchair or scooter does not need a DAS Card. Depending on the attraction, the Guest will either wait in the standard queue or receive a return time at the attraction based on the current wait time. For some attractions at Disneyland Resort, these guests will go directly to an alternate entrance. Guests with additional needs should discuss them with Guest Relations.

*Will Disney Parks continue to provide a service to wish-granting organizations? *
The change will not affect those who are visiting on trips organized by wish granting organizations. There is a separate program for children with life-threatening illnesses.
_


----------



## Twende

I deleted my post as you caught that the first link does not work.  Thanks for posting this.

I do not know what I am going to do.  My problems seldom revolved around waiting in cues.  I suspect that constantly explaining what I need to at least two cast members (one at the entrance and one further in) at many attractions, is going to get old and embarrassing for me.

We have a quick 4 day trip coming up and it will give me the chance to test the waters.  In November we have our annual Friends and Family reunion.  I just hope that I find a way to not get frustrated.


----------



## cmwade77

Twende said:


> I deleted my post as you caught that the first link does not work.  Thanks for posting this.
> 
> I do not know what I am going to do.  My problems seldom revolved around waiting in cues.  I suspect that constantly explaining what I need to at least two cast members (one at the entrance and one further in) at many attractions, is going to get old and embarrassing for me.
> 
> We have a quick 4 day trip coming up and it will give me the chance to test the waters.  In November we have our annual Friends and Family reunion.  I just hope that I find a way to not get frustrated.


Here is a thought that I have had about this, as I know a few people in similar situations.

Would you be able to simply write on a small card what your concerns are and hand that to the CM? This would reduce the need to explain it to them each time verbally, but still would communicate the need to them.

Additionally though the FAQ does say that they will be working with guests on an individual basis.

The one piece of advice that I have received from the person that I was talking with in the Disney offices is when you go into guest relations, be very specific as to what you need to make the attractions accessible to you. Do not explain WHY you need it, unless asked in order to clarify, but state clearly and concisely WHAT you need.

For example, mine might be something like:
At attractions, I often have to get out of line quickly and being in the standby line prevents that, so I need an alternate method to wait. In addition, I have problems with stairs and turnstiles and need to be able to get around them.

Renting a wheelchair would cause problems with my primary need above and I am able to walk through the parks, but at shows and parades, I need to be able to sit while waiting and watching them. I also need to be able to avoid the stairs that a lot of them have going in and out of them.

It's straight forward and to the point of what I *need*, without going into details of *why* I need it. If they question further about the need to get out line quickly, I would explain that if I was unable to, they most likely would be closing the ride and calling janitorial.

I have been told that this is the information that they will be looking for. So, for example, saying my child has Autsim won't help, instead, you need to explain what they need to make it possible for them to wait for the attraction. Such as they need a place to wait where it isn't crowded.

The bottom line that I got, was be as specific as possible about what you need to be able to do the attractions and don't just say that you can't wait in lines.


----------



## SueM in MN

cmwade77 said:


> Here is a thought that I have had about this, as I know a few people in similar situations.
> 
> Would you be able to simply write on a small card what your concerns are and hand that to the CM? This would reduce the need to explain it to them each time verbally, but still would communicate the need to them.
> 
> Additionally though the FAQ does say that they will be working with guests on an individual basis.
> 
> The one piece of advice that I have received from the person that I was talking with in the Disney offices is when you go into guest relations, be very specific as to what you need to make the attractions accessible to you. Do not explain WHY you need it, unless asked in order to clarify, but state clearly and concisely WHAT you need.
> 
> For example, mine might be something like:
> At attractions, I often have to get out of line quickly and being in the standby line prevents that, so I need an alternate method to wait. In addition, I have problems with stairs and turnstiles and need to be able to get around them.
> 
> Renting a wheelchair would cause problems with my primary need above and I am able to walk through the parks, but at shows and parades, I need to be able to sit while waiting and watching them. I also need to be able to avoid the stairs that a lot of them have going in and out of them.
> 
> It's straight forward and to the point of what I *need*, without going into details of *why* I need it. If they question further about the need to get out line quickly, I would explain that if I was unable to, they most likely would be closing the ride and calling janitorial.
> 
> I have been told that this is the information that they will be looking for. So, for example, saying my child has Autsim won't help, instead, you need to explain what they need to make it possible for them to wait for the attraction. Such as they need a place to wait where it isn't crowded.
> 
> The bottom line that I got, was be as specific as possible about what you need to be able to do the attractions and don't just say that you can't wait in lines.


Yes.
Good advice.
That has been what I have been saying since this board started. Explain the needs related to the disability. From post 6 of the disABILITIES FAQs thread.
(Obviously, I haven't edited it for the new DAS, so it still says GAC, but it's pretty good otherwise) 




*Do certain diagnoses qualify for a GAC?*
No.
Having any specific diagnosis doesn't qualify or not qualify someone for a GAC; there is no list of "appropriate" diagnoses for a GAC. Also, the CMs do not have medical training, so a specific diagnosis does not really mean much to them.
The GAC is based on _needs_ that the person has related to a disability, not what their diagnosis is.
The diagnosis is not really that important because people with the same diagnosis can have very different needs.*
The _GAC is given based on needs and the accommodations that meet those needs._ This is not a Disney rule, this is the way that the ADA is written. According to the ADA, accommodations are not given based on the diagnosis or specific disability; they are given based on needs that are related to a disability.*
For example, my youngest DD has cerebral palsy as her main diagnosis. Some people with cerebral palsy don't really need anything special; some might walk with a cane/crutches or use a wheelchair, but don't need anything besides an accessible line. Those people would not need a GAC.
Some people, like my DD, have additional needs that are not met just by having her wheelchair in line. I go to Guest Services and explain my DD's needs to the CMs there to get a GAC issued to her to help meet her needs.

*How do I figure out what the needs are?*
Think about what sorts of things happen in a day at the park and how they would affect the person with a disability. Those are the types of things you want to be able to discuss with the Cast Member at Guest Relations. Some things to consider:

Some attractions have quieter waiting places; they are often a roped or chained off area to the side of the regular waiting area, often not a separate area. There are usually no seats in the areas, but they are wheelchair accessible. This is an example of one of those spots - this one is at The Circle of Life at Epcot in The Land. The 'regular' waiting area is to the left of the picture and the handicapped area is to the right, in a roped off part of the same room. 




Not all attractions have these types of waiting areas and it is possible that the waiting area may not be available, even if there is one - it could be filled, or being used for another reason (such as a medical emergency involving another guest).
Some children with disabilities might need to bring a stroller in line; either because they can't/won't walk in line or to give a 'safe haven' where they would not be so close to other people. A GAC could allow the stroller to be brought into lines and be treated just like a wheelchair, being brought into the Mainstream Lines. and to boarding areas. 
Does the person need a place to lie down once in a while to rest or just an air conditioned place? First Aid in any park has cots for lying down; no need for a GAC to do that.
Is the person on medication or have a condition that may cause overheating or problems with being in the sun or heat? If so, a GAC might help with that (although most lines are shaded and many lines are indoors, so a GAC would not do a lot). A GAC may say that the person can wait out of the sun when the queue is in the sun for a prolonged period of time. Since most queues are shaded, this need is often met without needing a GAC. Guests with these types of issues also need to think about protecting themselves during the time they will be in the sun going between attractions and getting from place to place.
Does the person with an invisible disability need extra time getting into/out of ride vehicles for those rides with moving walkways? Do they need to avoid stair. If so, a GAC might help someone who can walk by allowing boarding at the wheelchair boarding spot for those attractions. (NOTE: Wheelchair/ECV users board at the exit for those moving walkway rides without needing a GAC, but they usually wait in the regular line with everyone else until close to the regular boarding area).


----------



## Twende

cmwade77 said:


> Here is a thought that I have had about this, as I know a few people in similar situations.
> 
> Would you be able to simply write on a small card what your concerns are and hand that to the CM? This would reduce the need to explain it to them each time verbally, but still would communicate the need to them.
> 
> Additionally though the FAQ does say that they will be working with guests on an individual basis.
> 
> The one piece of advice that I have received from the person that I was talking with in the Disney offices is when you go into guest relations, be very specific as to what you need to make the attractions accessible to you. Do not explain WHY you need it, unless asked in order to clarify, but state clearly and concisely WHAT you need.
> 
> For example, mine might be something like:
> At attractions, I often have to get out of line quickly and being in the standby line prevents that, so I need an alternate method to wait. In addition, I have problems with stairs and turnstiles and need to be able to get around them.
> 
> Renting a wheelchair would cause problems with my primary need above and I am able to walk through the parks, but at shows and parades, I need to be able to sit while waiting and watching them. I also need to be able to avoid the stairs that a lot of them have going in and out of them.
> 
> It's straight forward and to the point of what I *need*, without going into details of *why* I need it. If they question further about the need to get out line quickly, I would explain that if I was unable to, they most likely would be closing the ride and calling janitorial.
> 
> I have been told that this is the information that they will be looking for. So, for example, saying my child has Autsim won't help, instead, you need to explain what they need to make it possible for them to wait for the attraction. Such as they need a place to wait where it isn't crowded.
> 
> The bottom line that I got, was be as specific as possible about what you need to be able to do the attractions and don't just say that you can't wait in lines.





SueM in MN said:


> Yes.
> Good advice.
> That has been what I have been saying since this board started. Explain the needs related to the disability. From post 6 of the disABILITIES FAQs thread.
> (Obviously, I haven't edited it for the new DAS, so it still says GAC, but it's pretty good otherwise)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Do certain diagnoses qualify for a GAC?*
> No.
> Having any specific diagnosis doesn't qualify or not qualify someone for a GAC; there is no list of "appropriate" diagnoses for a GAC. Also, the CMs do not have medical training, so a specific diagnosis does not really mean much to them.
> The GAC is based on _needs_ that the person has related to a disability, not what their diagnosis is.
> The diagnosis is not really that important because people with the same diagnosis can have very different needs.*
> The _GAC is given based on needs and the accommodations that meet those needs._ This is not a Disney rule, this is the way that the ADA is written. According to the ADA, accommodations are not given based on the diagnosis or specific disability; they are given based on needs that are related to a disability.*
> For example, my youngest DD has cerebral palsy as her main diagnosis. Some people with cerebral palsy don't really need anything special; some might walk with a cane/crutches or use a wheelchair, but don't need anything besides an accessible line. Those people would not need a GAC.
> Some people, like my DD, have additional needs that are not met just by having her wheelchair in line. I go to Guest Services and explain my DD's needs to the CMs there to get a GAC issued to her to help meet her needs.
> 
> *How do I figure out what the needs are?*
> Think about what sorts of things happen in a day at the park and how they would affect the person with a disability. Those are the types of things you want to be able to discuss with the Cast Member at Guest Relations. Some things to consider:
> 
> Some attractions have quieter waiting places; they are often a roped or chained off area to the side of the regular waiting area, often not a separate area. There are usually no seats in the areas, but they are wheelchair accessible. This is an example of one of those spots - this one is at The Circle of Life at Epcot in The Land. The 'regular' waiting area is to the left of the picture and the handicapped area is to the right, in a roped off part of the same room.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not all attractions have these types of waiting areas and it is possible that the waiting area may not be available, even if there is one - it could be filled, or being used for another reason (such as a medical emergency involving another guest).
> Some children with disabilities might need to bring a stroller in line; either because they can't/won't walk in line or to give a 'safe haven' where they would not be so close to other people. A GAC could allow the stroller to be brought into lines and be treated just like a wheelchair, being brought into the Mainstream Lines. and to boarding areas.
> Does the person need a place to lie down once in a while to rest or just an air conditioned place? First Aid in any park has cots for lying down; no need for a GAC to do that.
> Is the person on medication or have a condition that may cause overheating or problems with being in the sun or heat? If so, a GAC might help with that (although most lines are shaded and many lines are indoors, so a GAC would not do a lot). A GAC may say that the person can wait out of the sun when the queue is in the sun for a prolonged period of time. Since most queues are shaded, this need is often met without needing a GAC. Guests with these types of issues also need to think about protecting themselves during the time they will be in the sun going between attractions and getting from place to place.
> Does the person with an invisible disability need extra time getting into/out of ride vehicles for those rides with moving walkways? Do they need to avoid stair. If so, a GAC might help someone who can walk by allowing boarding at the wheelchair boarding spot for those attractions. (NOTE: Wheelchair/ECV users board at the exit for those moving walkway rides without needing a GAC, but they usually wait in the regular line with everyone else until close to the regular boarding area).



Thanks to both of you for the encouragement!   I know I struggle with drastic changes but I work very hard to be flexible.  I guess some times I need a kick in the butt.  Thanks again!


----------



## SueM in MN

*information for Guests with cognitive disabilities at Disneyland is now available*
Link to DL page for Guests with Cognitive Disabilities, including a page link for DAS FAQs (which is the same information as in post 9)
https://disneyland.disney.go.com/guest-services/cognitive-disabilities/

And a link to the new Disneyland Guide for Guests with Cognitive Disabilities. It also looks very complete - 19 pages, but Disneyland is smaller than WDW. It includes a nice table listing all attractions and things like bumps, surprises, getting wet, etc:
https://wdpromedia.disney.go.com/me...nd-Resource-Guests-Cognitive-Disabilities.pdf


----------



## KPeveler

I spoke with a Guest Relations lead today about the changes, and she said that things are still rapidly evolving - what she was told today is different from what she heard in a meeting 3 days ago, which was different than 3 days before that.  Not major changes, but rather figuring out the smaller decisions, like how many days DL Annual Passholders would be issued a DAS card for.

I have heard everything from 3 to 7 days for an AP DAS card, but never anything longer than 7.  I heard 5 days today from the Guest Relations lead.

There still seems to be some debate over whether guests at an attraction would be allowed to issue a Return Time, or whether you must go to the kiosk.  Right now, neither has been ruled out - I am not sure management has decided, and it will be an evolving system.  

I was told by a different lead tonight that anything with a wait of 10 minutes or less would not be given a Return Time - that a guest would just be directed to the attraction

Also, as I was talking with several families tonight and realized something...  many of us think about our mobility disabilities as primary, because they may cause the biggest or most visually apparent impact.  But that is not necessarily what will impact us most in the lines.  It may be a heat intolerance or a GI issue or a mental health issue.  Yes, you may _also _have a mobility issue, but especially as most of WDW is mainstreamed, most of what Disney can do to help with mobility has been done.  

For example, my biggest impediment to me using most lines is my heat and mental health issues (depending on which line).  This means bringing up my mobility is not needed at all - focus on what you need and try to keep it as on-point and as brief, while still being informative, as possible.  The CMs are going to be hearing from a LOT of people in the next few weeks, and keeping things as simple as possible will make things easier for everyone involved.

And, as others have said, please be kind to the Cast Members you speak with -there will be a lot of people who are not happy and decide to take it out on the CM in front of them.  The person you speak to when asking for/about a DAS card did not write the policy, not did their boss, nor did that person's boss.  The person in Guest Relations can only implement the policy they are given.  While feedback, both positive and negative will help shape the system in the future, the CM in front of you is doing the best they can.  And they are learning too - so let's all be kind, and this transition will go okay.


----------



## bidnow5

I hope they can find a way of giving out return passes for several rides at once if my wife and I go alone because of a few complicated issues there is no way we can keep going back and forth. Even with a GAC we can only go to the parks for 2 or 3 hours at a time. When we go with other family members we don't even use a GAC


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## Jperiod

I'll be there the 12th. I have an AP, but i plan to bring our hotel reservations hoping they'll give us a card for the full week.  I'm also nervous about going back and forth to the kiosks. Sure, I'm able-bodied, but that's a lot of extra walking over the coarse of a week! And the little rides, will I have to go to the kiosk, just to be told I can go straight to the ride? Or  if we walk by a short ride, can we just go on?  **!  

DS has autism and the thing I'm worried most about is his lack of executive function. He's used to touring the parks on his terms for the past 4 years. He sees a ride, we go on, that's it. But to have to decide a ride in advance, then come back to that ride from what we're currently doing...  That's why we've only been on RSR twice since it opened.  I've been trying to prep him, but he doesn't really get it.

I was thinking about buying a touring plan. If i can steer us to go during certain times or in a certain order minimizing crowds, maybe the waits will be low enough we don't have to mess with return times?


----------



## cmwade77

Jperiod said:
			
		

> I'll be there the 12th. I have an AP, but i plan to bring our hotel reservations hoping they'll give us a card for the full week.  I'm also nervous about going back and forth to the kiosks. Sure, I'm able-bodied, but that's a lot of extra walking over the coarse of a week! And the little rides, will I have to go to the kiosk, just to be told I can go straight to the ride? Or  if we walk by a short ride, can we just go on?  **!
> 
> DS has autism and the thing I'm worried most about is his lack of executive function. He's used to touring the parks on his terms for the past 4 years. He sees a ride, we go on, that's it. But to have to decide a ride in advance, then come back to that ride from what we're currently doing...  That's why we've only been on RSR twice since it opened.  I've been trying to prep him, but he doesn't really get it.
> 
> I was thinking about buying a touring plan. If i can steer us to go during certain times or in a certain order minimizing crowds, maybe the waits will be low enough we don't have to mess with return times?


The problem that I can see with the current touring plans out there is that they will not account for some of the unique situations that will come up with this system.


----------



## KPeveler

bidnow5 said:


> I hope they can find a way of giving out return passes for several rides at once if my wife and I go alone because of a few complicated issues there is no way we can keep going back and forth. Even with a GAC we can only go to the parks for 2 or 3 hours at a time. When we go with other family members we don't even use a GAC



I notice that you go to WDW a lot in your signature - in that case you will be able to use FP, FP+, and possibly the DAS.  They will not, for the foreseeable future, be writing down more than one DAS Return Time at once.  

It may be that there are things which require no DAS or for which the DAS does not function.  For example, many shows run continuously, or every hour.  There will also be rides that are so low wait that they are not currently writing DAS cards for them.  

When you go with other family members, why would you not use the GAC/DAS?  When others are there, they can be the ones to go get the Return Time.

In terms of DisneyLAND - they still will not be changing that policy of one Return Time at a time for the foreseeable future.  I remember when they were first trying Fastpasses park-wide (this was in Florida) and they were trying different ways of getting a second FP (after two hours had passed, etc), other than waiting for the first FP time to come.

First they need to see how this system works, and I doubt they will be changing it for now.  There may be select tests in the future (perhaps on very crowded days when there are long lines for even Pinocchio) where they give out two times, but I doubt that will happen any time soon.

So you should plan on only getting one time.  But even so, there are many things to do in DL that you will not need a DAS time for - like enjoying the Animation Building in DCA or the Tiki Room (shows start at a posted time, and if you need accommodation, just ask - like using the lift if you cannot climb stairs).


----------



## KPeveler

Jperiod said:


> I'll be there the 12th. I have an AP, but i plan to bring our hotel reservations hoping they'll give us a card for the full week.  I'm also nervous about going back and forth to the kiosks. Sure, I'm able-bodied, but that's a lot of extra walking over the coarse of a week! And the little rides, will I have to go to the kiosk, just to be told I can go straight to the ride? Or  if we walk by a short ride, can we just go on?  **!
> 
> DS has autism and the thing I'm worried most about is his lack of executive function. He's used to touring the parks on his terms for the past 4 years. He sees a ride, we go on, that's it. But to have to decide a ride in advance, then come back to that ride from what we're currently doing...  That's why we've only been on RSR twice since it opened.  I've been trying to prep him, but he doesn't really get it.
> 
> I was thinking about buying a touring plan. If i can steer us to go during certain times or in a certain order minimizing crowds, maybe the waits will be low enough we don't have to mess with return times?




If you see a short wait, you can always enter the standard queue (and you can see these queues for a lot of Fantasyland rides).  I am not sure if they will make you check in for rides with low waits, or if they will just tell you when you get the ID "If the posted wait time is less than 15 minutes, then you do not need a time".  I am not sure, but this is the type of info we hope to get from Disney as soon as we can.


----------



## Minuet888

I have numerous questions as I have an 8 year old son with autism.  He cannot do lines or crowds.  He also has ADD/ADHD with his autism and these two things do NOT mix.  His brain does not shut down nor slow down he is on go go go and his autism doesn't allow him to process the go go go.  So that is why we have meltdowns.

Now that we know there will be kiosks at Disneyland (According to the Disneyland website itself) how many kiosks will there be in the park?  I have heard only 4 but that is going to lead to long lines just to get a return time ticket.  I once waited 20 minutes at RSR to get a return time ticket.  Are the kiosks automated or a CM handing out the tickets?

I can imagine the lines at city hall trying just to get a DAS card that is going to suck up a huge part of our day plus what am I supposed to do with my son then who can't wait in lines while I am waiting to get the DAS?  It's just him and me, I can't have anyone else wait in the line, same question with the kiosk lines.

They say they are going to shave off 10 minutes off the return time but what about the time I spend waiting for the kiosk?  I think I am going to be waiting longer that the return time.  For example let's say it is noon and I want to go on Indiana Jones that has a 90 minute return time.  I get in line for the kiosk at noon and let's say I wait 20 minutes.  So now it is 12:20 and I get a time to return at 1:40.  Technically I should have gotten it for 1:20 so now I am already 20 minutes behind.  I then at 1:40 go to the fastpass line but the fastpass line itself takes 20 minutes to get through so I don't get to go on the ride until 2pm.  That is 30 minutes past the time had I just gotten in the standby line.  See what I mean?
I know some people want to argue well we don't know that there will be lines at the kiosks but let's face it if it takes 20 minutes to get a return time ticket for just RSR DAS holders and these kiosks have to handle every single ride in the park for DAS holders?  There will be lines.

Also what if they give me a return time for a ride at 90 minutes but I get to that ride and find that the return time was only 45 minutes?  What do I do then?

Do they have things to do for this 90 minutes I am supposed to be waiting?  Disneyland only has one show and what if a showtime doesn't occur during my wait time?  They say go wait in a smaller line but let's face it first there are no small lines anymore in Disneyland and second my son can't wait in any lines.  So what does Disney expect us to do for 90 minutes with an ADD/ADHD autistic kid?  Allow him to sit in center circle and have a meltdown because he is sitting in the middle of Disneyland with everything around him and can't do anything because we are waiting for a return time???
I wish we could wait in a standby line as the line moves and you are going towards a goal and there is interactive stuff and things to watch (like Star Tours) but he just can't do it.

There have been several times I have stood in line (before we had our son) where the sign says the line is 90 minutes from this point but only ended up standing in line for 45 minutes.  What about then where there wait times are too exaggerated??


On a final note I don't get why these people in NY hired a disabled person to get them through the line.  All they had to do was rent a wheelchair themselves or just get a GAC saying they have an autistic kid or have a back problem and can't stand for long periods and still get the same result.  Why did they have to hire someone?  Doesn't make any sense. How were they caught?  It's just too suspicious for me.


----------



## KPeveler

Minuet888 said:


> I have numerous questions as I have an 8 year old son with autism.  He cannot do lines or crowds.  He also has ADD/ADHD with his autism and these two things do NOT mix.  His brain does not shut down nor slow down he is on go go go and his autism doesn't allow him to process the go go go.  So that is why we have meltdowns.
> 
> Now that we know there will be kiosks at Disneyland (According to the Disneyland website itself) how many kiosks will there be in the park?  I have heard only 4 but that is going to lead to long lines just to get a return time ticket.  I once waited 20 minutes at RSR to get a return time ticket.  Are the kiosks automated or a CM handing out the tickets?
> 
> I can imagine the lines at city hall trying just to get a DAS card that is going to suck up a huge part of our day plus what am I supposed to do with my son then who can't wait in lines while I am waiting to get the DAS?  It's just him and me, I can't have anyone else wait in the line, same question with the kiosk lines.
> 
> They say they are going to shave off 10 minutes off the return time but what about the time I spend waiting for the kiosk?  I think I am going to be waiting longer that the return time.  For example let's say it is noon and I want to go on Indiana Jones that has a 90 minute return time.  I get in line for the kiosk at noon and let's say I wait 20 minutes.  So now it is 12:20 and I get a time to return at 1:40.  Technically I should have gotten it for 1:20 so now I am already 20 minutes behind.  I then at 1:40 go to the fastpass line but the fastpass line itself takes 20 minutes to get through so I don't get to go on the ride until 2pm.  That is 30 minutes past the time had I just gotten in the standby line.  See what I mean?
> I know some people want to argue well we don't know that there will be lines at the kiosks but let's face it if it takes 20 minutes to get a return time ticket for just RSR DAS holders and these kiosks have to handle every single ride in the park for DAS holders?  There will be lines.
> 
> Also what if they give me a return time for a ride at 90 minutes but I get to that ride and find that the return time was only 45 minutes?  What do I do then?
> 
> Do they have things to do for this 90 minutes I am supposed to be waiting?  Disneyland only has one show and what if a showtime doesn't occur during my wait time?  They say go wait in a smaller line but let's face it first there are no small lines anymore in Disneyland and second my son can't wait in any lines.  So what does Disney expect us to do for 90 minutes with an ADD/ADHD autistic kid?  Allow him to sit in center circle and have a meltdown because he is sitting in the middle of Disneyland with everything around him and can't do anything because we are waiting for a return time???
> I wish we could wait in a standby line as the line moves and you are going towards a goal and there is interactive stuff and things to watch (like Star Tours) but he just can't do it.
> 
> There have been several times I have stood in line (before we had our son) where the sign says the line is 90 minutes from this point but only ended up standing in line for 45 minutes.  What about then where there wait times are too exaggerated??
> 
> 
> On a final note I don't get why these people in NY hired a disabled person to get them through the line.  All they had to do was rent a wheelchair themselves or just get a GAC saying they have an autistic kid or have a back problem and can't stand for long periods and still get the same result.  Why did they have to hire someone?  Doesn't make any sense. How were they caught?  It's just too suspicious for me.



First of all, Disney was working on changing the system long before there were those news stories about people hiring folks with a GAC.  The real problem is that the GAC system was designed with a lot fewer users in mind, and so it got overwhelmed.

Second, I believe that Disney, if there is a long kiosk line, will take that waiting time into account.  If the line looks long, keep track of how long you were in the queue.

Third, the app that Disney is using to judge wait times is free to the public as well - so you can know what the wait time is before even getting in the kiosk line.  I asked Disney how they would handle the kiosk lines getting long, and they said they were aware and addressing it.  That being said, do not go to get in the kiosk line right after a parade, fireworks, Fantasmic, etc.  

About the wait times being inaccurate - that is one reason I will be looking at more than the Disney app.  If I see a major discrepancy, I will either ask them about it, or ride a different attraction.

When you wait your 90 minutes, using your example, and then show up to the ride and see a 45 minute posted wait, that does not mean you have waited an incorrect amount of time - that just means that the wait time when you got the Return Time was 90 minutes, and then an hour and a half later, it may be shorter.  And yes, I am sure there is a time that the posted wait time reported to the kiosk is incorrect - no one is perfect.  But in general, I have found the posted time to be nearly always correct.  And don't forget, there will be times that you get a Return Time for 45 minutes and it turns out that the wait time was incorrect, it was actually 90!  Just remember that it can go both ways, and I am sure that if you wait a shorter time than actual stand-by, you would not want them penalizing you on your next ride!

When it comes to things to do that do not have a wait, here is a partial list...

There are plenty of things to do in Disneyland that either require no wait or have short waits.  There is *Mickey and the Magical Map* (the theatre seats 1800 - I have never seen it full), *Tiki Room* (continuous shows), *Billy Hill and the Hillbillies* (generally 4-5 shows/day, no lines beforehand - just go in), *Fantasy Faire Royal Theatre* (8 shows a day), *Laughing Stock*, ride the *Mark Twain* and/or the *Columbia *(yes, this wait area can be crowded, but tell the CM letting you in that your son is autistic, can they give you a place to the side - I do this now), *Dapper Dans*, *Main Street Marching Band*, *Firehouse band, Straw Hatters, Pearl-Something Band, Boot Strappers, Jazz in New Orleans Square, coloring *in Big Thunder Ranch jamboree, *seeing/petting the animals* in Big Thunder Ranch, *Main Street vehicles* (horse drawn trolley, fire truck, car, and bus), *Mickey's House*, *Minnie's House*, *Chip and Dale Treehouse*, *Tarzan's Treehouse*, all the buttons and things to touch in *Toontown *outside Roger Rabbit, *Tom Sawyer Island* (which has both places to play and quiet corners), *Disneyland Railroad* (which generally is not going to have a wait), *Ragtime Piano Player* (Coke Corner), *Innoventions*, *Capt Eo*, *Main Street Theatre* (with black and white Mickey cartoons), *Disney Gallery with the 50th anniversary video playing*, *Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln*, *Jedi Training Academy*...

All of this I came up with off the top of my head.  I am in a wheelchair, cannot handle crowds, have ADHD in addition to other things, and I rarely transfer, so that means I look at all the things I listed above, often.  I rarely actually enter an "attraction." I will start compiling a list for families like yours who may not know about these things.  I will also make one for DCA.  Tonight I am too tired to write it all down, but this is just what I came up with off the top of my head.  There is a lot to enjoy, in both parks.

I, too, understand about how this waiting system can be unfair, as I usually need to wait for a wheelchair accessible vehicle (WAV) or transfer accessible vehicle (TAV).  This means that after I wait my turn, with the DAS (assuming I get one), I am going to have to wait again for the WAV or TAV.  I may also need to wait because there is a limit to the number of wheelchair users allowed on an attraction at any one time.  This means if three wheelchair users all show up at Casey Junior Circus Train at the same time, even if we have waiting the appropriate stand-by time, I get to wait for the entire ride to cycle 3 times.  So I fully understand about how the system is not perfect, but  no system is.  The GAC system certainly is not (otherwise I would not wait twice as long in the heat and sun to get on Pirates!)

Keep an eye here for more information about what you can do that does not require waiting - there are more shows than you think!


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## luv2sleep

I have a son on the spectrum with ADHD symptoms too. Many times it's hard to get him to want to do shows, etc. He is afraid of characters so that's out. Sometimes just walking at length from one place to the other has him wanting to leave the park entirely which is why I don't do touring plans. I loved the GAC because we went easily from one attraction to the next with relative ease. In his mind that linear progression made sense and was ok. We are going to DL today. I'm anxious about the kiosk in regards to having to go back and firth to it vs just saying where we are and doing what he wants to do in that specific location before moving on. 4 kiosks doesn't seem like enough for that reason.


----------



## Mousequake

Minuet888 said:


> I have numerous questions as I have an 8 year old son with autism.  He cannot do lines or crowds.  He also has ADD/ADHD with his autism and these two things do NOT mix.  His brain does not shut down nor slow down he is on go go go and his autism doesn't allow him to process the go go go.  So that is why we have meltdowns.
> 
> Now that we know there will be kiosks at Disneyland (According to the Disneyland website itself) how many kiosks will there be in the park?  I have heard only 4 but that is going to lead to long lines just to get a return time ticket.  I once waited 20 minutes at RSR to get a return time ticket.  Are the kiosks automated or a CM handing out the tickets?



Can I ask what time of year you went that you waited 20 minutes for a return time ticket at RSR? I've gotten return times at that same attraction probably a dozen times at various times of the year, and never waited more than a minute or two if at all. In almost every case, there has been no line at all.


----------



## Aladora

Minuet888 said:


> I can imagine the lines at city hall trying just to get a DAS card that is going to suck up a huge part of our day plus what am I supposed to do with my son then who can't wait in lines while I am waiting to get the DAS?  It's just him and me, I can't have anyone else wait in the line, same question with the kiosk lines.



The process to get a DAS is exactly the same as for the GAC, with the small addition of taking a photo. We've taken our son to DL 4 times and have gone to city hall each time for a GAC, none of the times has there been a wait longer than 10 minutes. 

How did you get a GAC for your son before? The person needing the GAC has always had to be there, you have not been able to go and get one for someone else, at least not that I've ever heard.

Also, have you checked out the new guide that Disney has posted for guests with cognitive delays? I've read through it and I think they did an amazing job! 

It is going to be an adjustment and I know that a fairly large number of kids are going to have to learn the new way to enjoy Disney, my son included. Every time we have taken our son to DL, we have toured it using a GAC but now that is gone so we have two choices, adapt or find somewhere else to go on vacation. 

It seems as though the concept and implementation of the program is constantly evolving and it has not even started yet! I'm going to wait and see how it all shakes down after the first few days (weeks, months even!) before I start to lose sleep over it.

I'm not going to lie, I am concerned about our next trip in March. But, Disney *is *getting rid of the old GAC program as of this week and they *are *starting the new DAS program. There is nothing I can do to change this, the only thing I can change is how I react to the change.


----------



## lanejudy

Aladora said:


> ... I'm not going to lie, I am concerned about our next trip in March. But, Disney *is *getting rid of the old GAC program as of this week and they *are *starting the new DAS program. *There is nothing I can do to change this, the only thing I can change is how I react to the change.*



Terrific attitude!  I also am taking the wait-and-see approach, hopeful that we'll figure out the new routine.  I do feel for those whose vacations are falling right at this change-over time, though, as without the benefit of feedback to help plan it must be stressful.

Enjoy your vacation in March!


----------



## cmwade77

Aladora said:


> The process to get a DAS is exactly the same as for the GAC, with the small addition of taking a photo. We've taken our son to DL 4 times and have gone to city hall each time for a GAC, none of the times has there been a wait longer than 10 minutes.
> 
> How did you get a GAC for your son before? The person needing the GAC has always had to be there, you have not been able to go and get one for someone else, at least not that I've ever heard.
> 
> Also, have you checked out the new guide that Disney has posted for guests with cognitive delays? I've read through it and I think they did an amazing job!
> 
> It is going to be an adjustment and I know that a fairly large number of kids are going to have to learn the new way to enjoy Disney, my son included. Every time we have taken our son to DL, we have toured it using a GAC but now that is gone so we have two choices, adapt or find somewhere else to go on vacation.
> 
> It seems as though the concept and implementation of the program is constantly evolving and it has not even started yet! I'm going to wait and see how it all shakes down after the first few days (weeks, months even!) before I start to lose sleep over it.
> 
> I'm not going to lie, I am concerned about our next trip in March. But, Disney *is *getting rid of the old GAC program as of this week and they *are *starting the new DAS program. There is nothing I can do to change this, the only thing I can change is how I react to the change.



As of this last weekend, we are already beginning to see the problems with issuing the cards for shorter periods. I know two people who got GACs renewed on Saturday, one waited 20 minutes and the other 30 minutes in line.

The problem here is that now that everyone has to get them more often, it results in a substantially longer line. We saw the wait times increase when it went from 2 months to 2 weeks and we are indeed seeing a proportional increase to being valid for less time.

My opinion though is that if it does take 30 minutes, they should be writing your first return time on the pass, accounting for that wait time right there. I don't know if that's how it will work, but it is how it SHOULD work to be fair to everyone.


----------



## Minuet888

KPeveler said:


> First of all, Disney was working on changing the system long before there were those news stories about people hiring folks with a GAC.  The real problem is that the GAC system was designed with a lot fewer users in mind, and so it got overwhelmed.
> 
> Second, I believe that Disney, if there is a long kiosk line, will take that waiting time into account.  If the line looks long, keep track of how long you were in the queue.
> 
> Third, the app that Disney is using to judge wait times is free to the public as well - so you can know what the wait time is before even getting in the kiosk line.  I asked Disney how they would handle the kiosk lines getting long, and they said they were aware and addressing it.  That being said, do not go to get in the kiosk line right after a parade, fireworks, Fantasmic, etc.
> 
> About the wait times being inaccurate - that is one reason I will be looking at more than the Disney app.  If I see a major discrepancy, I will either ask them about it, or ride a different attraction.
> 
> When you wait your 90 minutes, using your example, and then show up to the ride and see a 45 minute posted wait, that does not mean you have waited an incorrect amount of time - that just means that the wait time when you got the Return Time was 90 minutes, and then an hour and a half later, it may be shorter.  And yes, I am sure there is a time that the posted wait time reported to the kiosk is incorrect - no one is perfect.  But in general, I have found the posted time to be nearly always correct.  And don't forget, there will be times that you get a Return Time for 45 minutes and it turns out that the wait time was incorrect, it was actually 90!  Just remember that it can go both ways, and I am sure that if you wait a shorter time than actual stand-by, you would not want them penalizing you on your next ride!
> 
> When it comes to things to do that do not have a wait, here is a partial list...
> 
> There are plenty of things to do in Disneyland that either require no wait or have short waits.  There is *Mickey and the Magical Map* (the theatre seats 1800 - I have never seen it full), *Tiki Room* (continuous shows), *Billy Hill and the Hillbillies* (generally 4-5 shows/day, no lines beforehand - just go in), *Fantasy Faire Royal Theatre* (8 shows a day), *Laughing Stock*, ride the *Mark Twain* and/or the *Columbia *(yes, this wait area can be crowded, but tell the CM letting you in that your son is autistic, can they give you a place to the side - I do this now), *Dapper Dans*, *Main Street Marching Band*, *Firehouse band, Straw Hatters, Pearl-Something Band, Boot Strappers, Jazz in New Orleans Square, coloring *in Big Thunder Ranch jamboree, *seeing/petting the animals* in Big Thunder Ranch, *Main Street vehicles* (horse drawn trolley, fire truck, car, and bus), *Mickey's House*, *Minnie's House*, *Chip and Dale Treehouse*, *Tarzan's Treehouse*, all the buttons and things to touch in *Toontown *outside Roger Rabbit, *Tom Sawyer Island* (which has both places to play and quiet corners), *Disneyland Railroad* (which generally is not going to have a wait), *Ragtime Piano Player* (Coke Corner), *Innoventions*, *Capt Eo*, *Main Street Theatre* (with black and white Mickey cartoons), *Disney Gallery with the 50th anniversary video playing*, *Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln*, *Jedi Training Academy*...
> 
> All of this I came up with off the top of my head.  I am in a wheelchair, cannot handle crowds, have ADHD in addition to other things, and I rarely transfer, so that means I look at all the things I listed above, often.  I rarely actually enter an "attraction." I will start compiling a list for families like yours who may not know about these things.  I will also make one for DCA.  Tonight I am too tired to write it all down, but this is just what I came up with off the top of my head.  There is a lot to enjoy, in both parks.
> 
> I, too, understand about how this waiting system can be unfair, as I usually need to wait for a wheelchair accessible vehicle (WAV) or transfer accessible vehicle (TAV).  This means that after I wait my turn, with the DAS (assuming I get one), I am going to have to wait again for the WAV or TAV.  I may also need to wait because there is a limit to the number of wheelchair users allowed on an attraction at any one time.  This means if three wheelchair users all show up at Casey Junior Circus Train at the same time, even if we have waiting the appropriate stand-by time, I get to wait for the entire ride to cycle 3 times.  So I fully understand about how the system is not perfect, but  no system is.  The GAC system certainly is not (otherwise I would not wait twice as long in the heat and sun to get on Pirates!)
> 
> Keep an eye here for more information about what you can do that does not require waiting - there are more shows than you think!



I do not trust the app with the waiting times what I was referring to is what if I get a return time of 90 minutes and then walk by that same attraction only to find out the waiting time is less than what they just gave me.

A lot of what you listed either does have a waiting time (Like the train when you said it doesn't) or things my son just won't do nor sit still in (like the Lincoln theater thing we tried that once didn't work) nor does he want to stand on the street listening to the Dapper Dans, I thought for sure once he would do the Jedi Academy as he LOVES Star Wars but once it started he darted.

I realize what Disney is and isn't going to do, and the reason I am freaking out before we have done this is because I know my son and I know what does and doesn't work for him and this doesn't work for him.

I have an annual pass and if we can no longer visit Disney because of the changes they choose to make I expect a partial refund.  There are thousands of other things they could have done.  They chose this one.  I am NOT the only person upset with this and am not the only person saying this isn't going to work for my child.


----------



## Minuet888

Aladora said:


> The process to get a DAS is exactly the same as for the GAC, with the small addition of taking a photo. We've taken our son to DL 4 times and have gone to city hall each time for a GAC, none of the times has there been a wait longer than 10 minutes.
> 
> How did you get a GAC for your son before? The person needing the GAC has always had to be there, you have not been able to go and get one for someone else, at least not that I've ever heard.
> 
> Also, have you checked out the new guide that Disney has posted for guests with cognitive delays? I've read through it and I think they did an amazing job!
> 
> It is going to be an adjustment and I know that a fairly large number of kids are going to have to learn the new way to enjoy Disney, my son included. Every time we have taken our son to DL, we have toured it using a GAC but now that is gone so we have two choices, adapt or find somewhere else to go on vacation.
> 
> It seems as though the concept and implementation of the program is constantly evolving and it has not even started yet! I'm going to wait and see how it all shakes down after the first few days (weeks, months even!) before I start to lose sleep over it.
> 
> I'm not going to lie, I am concerned about our next trip in March. But, Disney *is *getting rid of the old GAC program as of this week and they *are *starting the new DAS program. There is nothing I can do to change this, the only thing I can change is how I react to the change.



We never had to wait with the GAC before with this registering the first time and getting the photo the lines are going to be ridiculous.  That is what I am talking about, the little thing about just getting the photo is when you are renewing it the first time they said it takes longer because you are registering etc.

The reason I am reacting now as I have said is I know what does and doesn't work for my child and this doesn't work.

Just because Disney IS chosing to do this doesn't mean I HAVE to like it.
I feel there is something we can do to change this and so do a lot of the parents on the autism boards.  Like I said I am NOT the only person who feels this way.


----------



## englishrose47

I will be travelling with 8 Developmentally Disabled ,their special needs are across the board , but with the help of a couple of wonderful Dis Friends helping me plan for low crowd days , utilize both FP+ and  regular FP and the DAS , I am confident we will have a GREAT time !!  Do I like the changes NO !! Do I understand Disney's reasoni9ng .. Absolutely, to all those cheaters out there I have nothing but contempt . I have a Grandson with severe ADHD, ODD and IED, so we also used it when it was the family going , never once did I use it , because I didn't feel my achy bones warranted it !! I think we all need to sit back and watch !!I will be there the second week it starts so a lot of kinks will not be worked out . It is NOT going to stop me having a GREAT time !!


----------



## Aladora

Minuet888 said:


> We never had to wait with the GAC before with this registering the first time and getting the photo the lines are going to be ridiculous.  That is what I am talking about, the little thing about just getting the photo is when you are renewing it the first time they said it takes longer because you are registering etc.
> 
> The reason I am reacting now as I have said is I know what does and doesn't work for my child and this doesn't work.
> 
> Just because Disney IS chosing to do this doesn't mean I HAVE to like it.
> I feel there is something we can do to change this and so do a lot of the parents on the autism boards.  Like I said I am NOT the only person who feels this way.



No, you are absolutely not the only person who feels this way and I say to you what I have said to others: 

The DAS has not even been implemented yet. 

The DAS seems to be an evolving program.

We have no idea what the lines are going to be like to get the DAS card. 

We have no idea what the lines are going to be like at the kiosks. We don't even know if they are keeping the kiosks or not. 

At least give the new system a chance before getting all ranty and demanding a refund. 

The first time I read about the changes, I also thought about our recent choice to get APs. I was also worried about how our son was going to cope with the new way of doing Disneyland. I was sad to think that our wonderful Disneyland vacations were not going to be as fantastic and questioned whether or not we would be able to go back.

Then I realized that I was being silly. That the new system had not started yet and that I really needed to get a grip and wait until we know how this is going to effect our kids and our ability to enjoy Disneyland.

I have used the GAC every time with our son and I have always been one to fully admit that the way we tour Disneyland using the GAC in the way that the CM have directed us to use it has resulted in us basically having an unlimited Fast Pass for any ride we want. It was not a FOTL pass, but the next thing to one.

This means that we have not received EQUAL access due to my son's disability, we have received SUPERIOR access. Is this what Disney intended with the GAC? No. The GAC was supposed to give equal access, not superior access. 

The new DAS seems to allow for equal access. We will wait as long (more or less) as other guests without disabilities, but we are able to wait in a way that my son can cope with. 

I do have some concerns about the DAS, for instance I am not a fan of the kiosks and I really hope that AP holders can get one for longer than 1 day but those are issues that might get ironed out.

I do understand why you are upset and worried about future trips, I really do. I know all too well the challenges of dealing with a child with disabilities. I also have an 8 year old with autism, so I really do know where you are coming from.

But that does not mean that we should get better access and really, that is what we have been receiving. If Disney had continued with the GAC program then we would continue to have used it but they are not so again, we can either adapt or give up.


----------



## Spoot

Aladora said:


> No, you are absolutely not the only person who feels this way and I say to you what I have said to others:
> 
> The DAS has not even been implemented yet.
> 
> The DAS seems to be an evolving program.
> 
> We have no idea what the lines are going to be like to get the DAS card.
> 
> We have no idea what the lines are going to be like at the kiosks. We don't even know if they are keeping the kiosks or not.
> 
> At least give the new system a chance before getting all ranty and demanding a refund.
> 
> The first time I read about the changes, I also thought about our recent choice to get APs. I was also worried about how our son was going to cope with the new way of doing Disneyland. I was sad to think that our wonderful Disneyland vacations were not going to be as fantastic and questioned whether or not we would be able to go back.
> 
> Then I realized that I was being silly. That the new system had not started yet and that I really needed to get a grip and wait until we know how this is going to effect our kids and our ability to enjoy Disneyland.
> 
> I have used the GAC every time with our son and I have always been one to fully admit that the way we tour Disneyland using the GAC in the way that the CM have directed us to use it has resulted in us basically having an unlimited Fast Pass for any ride we want. It was not a FOTL pass, but the next thing to one.
> 
> This means that we have not received EQUAL access due to my son's disability, we have received SUPERIOR access. Is this what Disney intended with the GAC? No. The GAC was supposed to give equal access, not superior access.
> 
> The new DAS seems to allow for equal access. We will wait as long (more or less) as other guests without disabilities, but we are able to wait in a way that my son can cope with.
> 
> I do have some concerns about the DAS, for instance *I am not a fan of the kiosks* and I really hope that AP holders can get one for longer than 1 day but those are issues that might get ironed out.
> 
> I do understand why you are upset and worried about future trips, I really do. I know all too well the challenges of dealing with a child with disabilities. I also have an 8 year old with autism, so I really do know where you are coming from.
> 
> But that does not mean that we should get better access and really, that is what we have been receiving. If Disney had continued with the GAC program then we would continue to have used it but they are not so again, we can either adapt or give up.



Great post - it covers my thoughts almost exactly.

The only place we disagree is the bit I bolded.  I actually preferred the idea of the kiosks rather than having to go the ride to get the time stamp.  We mainly do WDW and it sounds like there will be no kiosks there - I think that we may have trouble with that.


----------



## cmwade77

Just a piece of information that I have received via email from Disney is that the DAS cards will be valid for shows and accessible viewing areas at parades.

I don't know if they will count as a return time or not, but I thought some might like to know.


----------



## bidnow5

I hope it doesn't happen but if it takes 30 or more minutes to get a card then it isn't equal access


----------



## KPeveler

cmwade77 said:


> Just a piece of information that I have received via email from Disney is that the DAS cards will be valid for shows and accessible viewing areas at parades.
> 
> I don't know if they will count as a return time or not, but I thought some might like to know.



I just wanted to repeat what I said in the other thread - that these areas are very very crowded, and that, for most sections and parades, do not have a place to sit.  Sometimes an area will have a bench, and one area for the parade in DL and one section for WOC (that I know of) have benches.  But in these areas wheelchairs will be parked in the front row.  

In Fantasmic, the policy until now has been that if someone in your group did not have a physical wheelchair, stroller as wheelchair, or walker with a seat, the party was not allowed into the wheelchair viewing area.  Even if you had a GAC which allowed a person to use wheelchair accessible entrances, the section was for wheelchairs only.  I do not see them changing this part of the policy.  There are NO benches in the Fantasmic viewing area, so there is nowhere to sit. 

Wheelchairs are always lined up along the front of the wheelchair viewing area (for daytime parades, that depends on the CMs running the area), and even in the off-season, the wheelchair viewing area for Fantasmic fills very quickly.  In fact, to get the best viewing people show up 2 hours early, even with a wheelchair.  

In all of the accessible viewing areas, they are generally small and crowded areas.  They fill up fast, and are not great places for people who need to be able to move around or who do not like to be crowded or touched.  Also, in DL, all wheelchair viewing areas except 1 (one) - once you are in it, and the parade starts or there are people in the areas around you - you are trapped (unless you go off the curb into the parade route, assuming the parade is not happening).  

In the Fantasmic and WOC viewing areas, down in the tiers, you will be similarly stuck, crowded in by people around you.  Only at the very end of the F! wheelchair section, where viewing is not as good, would you have a chance to leave if a child became overwhelmed.

I say this just to give a heads up to people who may not have been allowed in this section before - they may not be the best areas for autistic children or others who need room to move.


----------



## cmwade77

KPeveler said:


> I just wanted to repeat what I said in the other thread - that these areas are very very crowded, and that, for most sections and parades, do not have a place to sit.  Sometimes an area will have a bench, and one area for the parade in DL and one section for WOC (that I know of) have benches.  But in these areas wheelchairs will be parked in the front row.
> 
> In Fantasmic, the policy until now has been that if someone in your group did not have a physical wheelchair, stroller as wheelchair, or walker with a seat, the party was not allowed into the wheelchair viewing area.  Even if you had a GAC which allowed a person to use wheelchair accessible entrances, the section was for wheelchairs only.  I do not see them changing this part of the policy.  There are NO benches in the Fantasmic viewing area, so there is nowhere to sit.
> 
> Wheelchairs are always lined up along the front of the wheelchair viewing area (for daytime parades, that depends on the CMs running the area), and even in the off-season, the wheelchair viewing area for Fantasmic fills very quickly.  In fact, to get the best viewing people show up 2 hours early, even with a wheelchair.
> 
> In all of the accessible viewing areas, they are generally small and crowded areas.  They fill up fast, and are not great places for people who need to be able to move around or who do not like to be crowded or touched.  Also, in DL, all wheelchair viewing areas except 1 (one) - once you are in it, and the parade starts or there are people in the areas around you - you are trapped (unless you go off the curb into the parade route, assuming the parade is not happening).
> 
> In the Fantasmic and WOC viewing areas, down in the tiers, you will be similarly stuck, crowded in by people around you.  Only at the very end of the F! wheelchair section, where viewing is not as good, would you have a chance to leave if a child became overwhelmed.
> 
> I say this just to give a heads up to people who may not have been allowed in this section before - they may not be the best areas for autistic children or others who need room to move.



I do agree that they may not always be the best for autistic or those that need room to move. But, I feel that this is good information to know for those of us with difficulty standing for the length of waiting and the show on top of that. However, there is almost always an escape route, but in many cases, you will not be able to get back in once leaving the area. I wouldn't use one of these places if there wasn't, due to my needs. And yes, once the parade or show starts, you are often stuck, but in many cases that is true no matter where you are.

I mean no disrespect here in any way, but I do have some corrections and comments to the information that KPeveler has provided, based on actual experiences this last Saturday:

WOC currently has about five ADA viewing areas throughout the viewing area, in addition to the two in the back. NOTE: Some of these areas may already be filled, depending on the needs of the guests there. With the exception of the ones in the back, they can make these less crowded upon request, if you have the need. There will still be other people there, just fewer people.

Fantasmic!: The ADA viewing area does have benches and those with GACs have been able to use them since about 2011 and I have never heard of anyone with an applicable stamp being turned away since then, unless the viewing area there was already full. NOTE: For those with wheelchairs and ECVs, you can be in the back of most sitting areas and will generally get a better view of the show by doing this.

Aladdin: Currently a GAC, Wheelchair or ECV is required to bypass the stairs (yes, they were making those with canes and walkers use the stairs, which I found ridiculous.)

Parades: At DCA, I know of no specific viewing areas for accessibility, at Disneyland, there is one with benches and yes, wheelchairs may be in front of some of the benches, but due to the incline that they are placed on, you should still be able to see while sitting on the benches and that area does have an escape path, but you may not be able to get back in once you leave.

Unfortunately, the fireworks have no accessible viewing area, which is desperately needed due to how they configure the viewing area now with standing in front of the hub. When they had sitting in front of the hub it wasn't that big of a deal, as wheelchairs could be at the back and see over everyone, now all they get to see is the rear end of the person in front of them.

One other comment is if you don't feel that an ADA spot will meet your needs, talk with a CM and explain your needs. They are usually happy to help and I have not seen them refuse a reasonable request.


----------



## Minuet888

Aladora said:


> No, you are absolutely not the only person who feels this way and I say to you what I have said to others:
> 
> The DAS has not even been implemented yet.
> 
> The DAS seems to be an evolving program.
> 
> We have no idea what the lines are going to be like to get the DAS card.
> 
> We have no idea what the lines are going to be like at the kiosks. We don't even know if they are keeping the kiosks or not.
> 
> At least give the new system a chance before getting all ranty and demanding a refund.



I realize it hasn't been implanted yet.

It does NOT seem like an evolving program to me, especially with people telling me it's here it's staying and get used to it.

Granted I'm not a fortune teller about the lines but I am using my knowledge of what we have went through in the past to get things do things and that's BEFORE this system is in effect and EVERYONE has to go to the same place makes it all the more worse.

Same thing with the kiosks.

It is difficult for me to say give it a chance when I already know what does and doesn't work for my son.  Sure let's go all the way down there (getting my son excited in the process) and when we get there it's a nightmare my son has several meltdowns but I'll put him through all that just for me to confirm what I already know about my son, he can't do this.  Forgive me for being "ranty" but I'm the only one who can when it comes to my son because he can't do it for himself.





bidnow5 said:


> I hope it doesn't happen but if it takes 30 or more minutes to get a card then it isn't equal access



Exactly what I am saying!




KPeveler said:


> In Fantasmic, the policy until now has been that if someone in your group did not have a physical wheelchair, stroller as wheelchair, or walker with a seat, the party was not allowed into the wheelchair viewing area.  Even if you had a GAC which allowed a person to use wheelchair accessible entrances, the section was for wheelchairs only.  I do not see them changing this part of the policy.  There are NO benches in the Fantasmic viewing area, so there is nowhere to sit.



I'm not saying this doesn't happen to everyone but we actually had a different experience with Fantasmic.  My son needs room to move and we need a good exit strategy as I've said but we were allowed to be in the handicapped section of Fantasmic.  My son as well as I can stand no problem.  Our problems with the handicapped section is that it is way off to the left and we really can't see the water screen and only get the profile of Mickey Mouse on the island.  Plus it is very crowded in that area and my son wasn't making it.  When we had to depart because my son couldn't do it we found ourselves with a bad exit strategy.  There were crowds behind us around us and to get out with a melting down child was extremely difficult.  
So if we want to do Fantasmic we have to pay for it.  We do the desert option.  It is really good for him.  Lots of room he can snack on the food while waiting for the show to start.  It is pretty much front and center.  If we needed to exit for any reason (we never had with this area) it exits straight out into the street walking aisle whatever you want to call it area for us to walk to where ever we are going.  
So we actually have to pay extra if we want to do some things in Disneyland with my son.


Now a question:
What is the difference between Fastpass and Fastpass +    I have never seen a Fastpass+  at Disneyland.


While discussing this issue on the autism boards people have been finding a way to "double down" as they are calling it on the boards.  Here is how it works (I am NOT saying to do this I am just pointing out that this system is also subject to abuse) Say my son has the DAS and if my husband gets to come with us We have a party of 3 on his DAS.  Then I get a wheelchair and since I don't have to show proof I too will be getting a return time ticket for each ride.  So we can get two attractions at the same time, one on my son's DAS and one on mine.  See what I mean?

Even though it isn't "front of the line" people will still abuse it because they still don't want to wait in lines and they still don't have to as the abusers are capable of waiting in lines they go on smaller rides or see shows or eat while waiting for their return time.  Other people without the card can't do this.  It's still abuse.
Disney isn't solving anything.


----------



## Minuet888

cmwade77 said:


> I do agree that they may not always be the best for autistic or those that need room to move. But, I feel that this is good information to know for those of us with difficulty standing for the length of waiting and the show on top of that. However, there is almost always an escape route, but in many cases, you will not be able to get back in once leaving the area. I wouldn't use one of these places if there wasn't, due to my needs. And yes, once the parade or show starts, you are often stuck, but in many cases that is true no matter where you are.
> 
> I mean no disrespect here in any way, but I do have some corrections and comments to the information that KPeveler has provided, based on actual experiences this last Saturday:
> 
> WOC currently has about five ADA viewing areas throughout the viewing area, in addition to the two in the back. NOTE: Some of these areas may already be filled, depending on the needs of the guests there. With the exception of the ones in the back, they can make these less crowded upon request, if you have the need. There will still be other people there, just fewer people.
> 
> *Fantasmic!: The ADA viewing area does have benches and those with GACs have been able to use them since about 2011 and I have never heard of anyone with an applicable stamp being turned away since then, unless the viewing area there was already full. NOTE: For those with wheelchairs and ECVs, you can be in the back of most sitting areas and will generally get a better view of the show by doing this.*
> 
> Aladdin: Currently a GAC, Wheelchair or ECV is required to bypass the stairs (yes, they were making those with canes and walkers use the stairs, which I found ridiculous.)
> 
> Parades: At DCA, I know of no specific viewing areas for accessibility, at Disneyland, there is one with benches and yes, wheelchairs may be in front of some of the benches, but due to the incline that they are placed on, you should still be able to see while sitting on the benches and that area does have an escape path, but you may not be able to get back in once you leave.
> 
> Unfortunately, *the fireworks have no accessible viewing area, which is desperately needed due to how they configure the viewing area now with standing in front of the hub. *When they had sitting in front of the hub it wasn't that big of a deal, as wheelchairs could be at the back and see over everyone, now all they get to see is the rear end of the person in front of them.
> 
> One other comment is if you don't feel that an ADA spot will meet your needs, talk with a CM and explain your needs. They are usually happy to help and I have not seen them refuse a reasonable request.



With the Fantasmic thing that's what I mentioned in the post earlier.  We were always able to be in the handicapped section.

With the fireworks they actually do have seating but it is never really available.  The central hub and around it and right in front of it have benches.  These are first reserved for Make a Wish kids and the VIP tours.  Afterwards it is a first come first serve basis for those with a GAC card BUT you have to go to City Hall to ask that your name be put on the list.  They will then tell you if there is room or not they sometimes have room at the train station sectioned off seating.  But honestly unless you are there first thing in the morning to put your name on the list forget it.


----------



## Spoot

Minuet888 said:


> While discussing this issue on the autism boards people have been finding a way to "double down" as they are calling it on the boards.  Here is how it works (I am NOT saying to do this I am just pointing out that this system is also subject to abuse) Say my son has the DAS and if my husband gets to come with us We have a party of 3 on his DAS.  Then I get a wheelchair and since I don't have to show proof I too will be getting a return time ticket for each ride.  So we can get two attractions at the same time, one on my son's DAS and one on mine.  See what I mean?
> 
> Even though it isn't "front of the line" people will still abuse it because they still don't want to wait in lines and they still don't have to as the abusers are capable of waiting in lines they go on smaller rides or see shows or eat while waiting for their return time.  Other people without the card can't do this.  It's still abuse.
> Disney isn't solving anything.



I find it disgusting that people on an autism board would be discussing ways to abuse the system - all the while yelling about how they (and their children) are being punished because Disney wanted to stop abusers.


----------



## KPeveler

Minuet888 said:


> I do not trust the app with the waiting times what I was referring to is what if I get a return time of 90 minutes and then walk by that same attraction only to find out the waiting time is less than what they just gave me.
> 
> A lot of what you listed either does have a waiting time (Like the train when you said it doesn't) or things my son just won't do nor sit still in (like the Lincoln theater thing we tried that once didn't work) nor does he want to stand on the street listening to the Dapper Dans, I thought for sure once he would do the Jedi Academy as he LOVES Star Wars but once it started he darted.
> 
> I realize what Disney is and isn't going to do, and the reason I am freaking out before we have done this is because I know my son and I know what does and doesn't work for him and this doesn't work for him.
> 
> I have an annual pass and if we can no longer visit Disney because of the changes they choose to make I expect a partial refund.  There are thousands of other things they could have done.  They chose this one.  I am NOT the only person upset with this and am not the only person saying this isn't going to work for my child.



Earlier in this thread I suggested downloading more than one app, so you can compare - with DL, the wait times app I like is "MouseWait."  I plan on looking at more than one app to see if there is a major difference in the wait times - if there is, I will ask them to double check or pick a different ride to ask for.

If you walk past within minutes, then I would stop and speak to the CMs at the attraction or at the nearest kiosk.

I did in fact list things that sometimes have waits, but generally never longer than 10-15 minutes, which is about how long you would wait in a FastPass line anyway.  For most things, like Tiki Room, Mark Twain/Colombia, and Train, if you need to wait for the next show/boat/train, speak to the CMs working it.  Especially if you have a DAS in hand with your son's picture, and say he is autistic and has ADHD, can we please wait off to the side (for the train, that may be where wheelchair parties wait, for the boats, there is a place off to the side they save for wheelchair groups, and I am sure the CM who works Tiki Room will work with you (like have you wait by the exit, go in there (which is what wheelchairs do anyway) so you can leave if you need to.

If he will not sit for a show, and he will not stand for a show, how have you handled waiting in the long GAC lines thus far?  I am not being sarcastic - it may be that your present system can be adapted.  Because I have a GAC, and I know how long it takes to get on Pirates or HM or Peter Pan, even Jungle Cruise.

Will he use a stroller, special needs stroller, or wheelchair, to help give him a private space?

What I can guarantee you is that Disney is not going to refund any part of your annual passes.  I have family who works in Ticket Sales, and she explained the contracts to us, which my wife and I read entirely before signing.  Even if we are in the hospital and can never go to Disney for an entire year, we have to pay.  I actually think our estate must pay even if we are dead.  So I can tell you that there will not be a refund issued.


----------



## KPeveler

cmwade77 said:


> I do agree that they may not always be the best for autistic or those that need room to move. But, I feel that this is good information to know for those of us with difficulty standing for the length of waiting and the show on top of that. However, there is almost always an escape route, but in many cases, you will not be able to get back in once leaving the area. I wouldn't use one of these places if there wasn't, due to my needs. And yes, once the parade or show starts, you are often stuck, but in many cases that is true no matter where you are.
> 
> I mean no disrespect here in any way, but I do have some corrections and comments to the information that KPeveler has provided, based on actual experiences this last Saturday:
> 
> WOC currently has about five ADA viewing areas throughout the viewing area, in addition to the two in the back. NOTE: Some of these areas may already be filled, depending on the needs of the guests there. With the exception of the ones in the back, they can make these less crowded upon request, if you have the need. There will still be other people there, just fewer people.
> 
> Fantasmic!: The ADA viewing area does have benches and those with GACs have been able to use them since about 2011 and I have never heard of anyone with an applicable stamp being turned away since then, unless the viewing area there was already full. NOTE: For those with wheelchairs and ECVs, you can be in the back of most sitting areas and will generally get a better view of the show by doing this.
> 
> Aladdin: Currently a GAC, Wheelchair or ECV is required to bypass the stairs (yes, they were making those with canes and walkers use the stairs, which I found ridiculous.)
> 
> Parades: At DCA, I know of no specific viewing areas for accessibility, at Disneyland, there is one with benches and yes, wheelchairs may be in front of some of the benches, but due to the incline that they are placed on, you should still be able to see while sitting on the benches and that area does have an escape path, but you may not be able to get back in once you leave.
> 
> Unfortunately, the fireworks have no accessible viewing area, which is desperately needed due to how they configure the viewing area now with standing in front of the hub. When they had sitting in front of the hub it wasn't that big of a deal, as wheelchairs could be at the back and see over everyone, now all they get to see is the rear end of the person in front of them.
> 
> One other comment is if you don't feel that an ADA spot will meet your needs, talk with a CM and explain your needs. They are usually happy to help and I have not seen them refuse a reasonable request.



One correction to this post: As of Saturday night, as well as two nights the previous week that I went to see Fantasmic, CMs were stating exactly what I said - that if you did not have a physical wheelchair, you needed to view the show elsewhere.  The last time I was told this was this past Saturday.  I saw two different parties with GACs with a wheelchair stamp being turned away.  One of the three times I have listened to this speech in the last two weeks, a manager (shirt and tie, not just with a radio) was the one saying it.  I saw no benches in the wheelchair viewing area, and if they are there, they are all the way to the left of the section, close to the exit.

This speech was said before the area was even opened to guests for the second show. I heard it being said to guests after the area had been opened for the first show, but when it was NOT full.

So perhaps you went to WOC on Saturday, but I was basing what I wrote on my actual experiences this Saturday.

I did say that there were benches at the very back, at least, of the WOC show.  

I mostly wanted to point out that most DAS cards will NOT be given for mobility concerns.  Most DAS cards will be given for other conditions, and I mostly did not want people thinking this would mean the area is open or less crowded for people with autism and social phobias.  And for guests who have the DAS who may also be looking for a place to sit down, not all parade areas in DL have benches (I know the one in the hub does), and they too are very very crowded.


----------



## KPeveler

Minuet888 said:


> I realize it hasn't been implanted yet.
> Now a question:
> What is the difference between Fastpass and Fastpass +    I have never seen a Fastpass+  at Disneyland.
> 
> 
> While discussing this issue on the autism boards people have been finding a way to "double down" as they are calling it on the boards.  Here is how it works (I am NOT saying to do this I am just pointing out that this system is also subject to abuse) Say my son has the DAS and if my husband gets to come with us We have a party of 3 on his DAS.  Then I get a wheelchair and since I don't have to show proof I too will be getting a return time ticket for each ride.  So we can get two attractions at the same time, one on my son's DAS and one on mine.  See what I mean?
> 
> Even though it isn't "front of the line" people will still abuse it because they still don't want to wait in lines and they still don't have to as the abusers are capable of waiting in lines they go on smaller rides or see shows or eat while waiting for their return time.  Other people without the card can't do this.  It's still abuse.
> Disney isn't solving anything.



First question: There is no FastPass+ at Disneyland, only Disney World.  Disneyland is years out from having FP+, which I think allows you to make a certain number of FP+ reservations ahead of time.

Second question: If you require a wheelchair, and have someone to push you (which is the part about your husband going, if I read it correctly), then you are certainly welcome to use the wheelchair.  But having a wheelchair, whether your own or a rental, does NOT mean that you qualify for a DAS.  You would need to have concerns beyond those met by the wheelchair.  So, no, you cannot "double down" by renting a wheelchair.  You will NOT get a return time for the wheelchair.  In Disneyland, you will be directed to the wheelchair accessible queue, which is generally a line in or outside of the exit.  In DCA, that is the mainstream queue.

In WDW, there are 10 queues which are not wheelchair accessible, and so guests with wheelchairs will be given return times equal to the stand-by time - thereby avoiding anyone not waiting their turn - which I guess can be held in addition to DAS Return Times.  

These cards will not be used in DL, at least as of Saturday when I spoke to the manager in Guest Relations on Saturday.  There are simply too many rides for that to be effective.

So you can rent a wheelchair, and you can use the stand-by wheelchair queue, but you will not be issued a return card, and DAS Return Time holders will get priority over the stand-by wheelchair line (to a point - they will also work guests together to keep times as even as possible, but it had always been a possibility that if there are too many guests with wheelchairs showing up to a ride at one time, then the wheelchair queue could be longer than the standby time... that is one thing the new system is going to help fix.

But, speaking of DL, there is no FP+ and there is no Return Cards to be given out for wheelchair users.


----------



## disney david

KPeveler said:


> First question: There is no FastPass+ at Disneyland, only Disney World.  Disneyland is years out from having FP+, which I think allows you to make a certain number of FP+ reservations ahead of time.
> 
> Second question: If you require a wheelchair, and have someone to push you (which is the part about your husband going, if I read it correctly), then you are certainly welcome to use the wheelchair.  But having a wheelchair, whether your own or a rental, does NOT mean that you qualify for a DAS.  You would need to have concerns beyond those met by the wheelchair.  So, no, you cannot "double down" by renting a wheelchair.  You will NOT get a return time for the wheelchair.  In Disneyland, you will be directed to the wheelchair accessible queue, which is generally a line in or outside of the exit.  In DCA, that is the mainstream queue.
> 
> In WDW, there are 10 queues which are not wheelchair accessible, and so guests with wheelchairs will be given return times equal to the stand-by time - thereby avoiding anyone not waiting their turn - which I guess can be held in addition to DAS Return Times.
> 
> These cards will not be used in DL, at least as of Saturday when I spoke to the manager in Guest Relations on Saturday.  There are simply too many rides for that to be effective.
> 
> So you can rent a wheelchair, and you can use the stand-by wheelchair queue, but you will not be issued a return card, and DAS Return Time holders will get priority over the stand-by wheelchair line (to a point - they will also work guests together to keep times as even as possible, but it had always been a possibility that if there are too many guests with wheelchairs showing up to a ride at one time, then the wheelchair queue could be longer than the standby time... that is one thing the new system is going to help fix.
> 
> But, speaking of DL, there is no FP+ and there is no Return Cards to be given out for wheelchair users.



You get to make three per day at one park per day they give you options and you pick the time that works best for you. If they don't pick the closet one and then you allowed to try and change  the time and it give you more times to choose from if their available.


----------



## KPeveler

disney david said:


> You get to make three per day at one park per day they give you options and you pick the time that works best for you. If they don't pick the closet one and then you allowed to try and change  the time and it give you more times to choose from if their available.



Thank you David - I am a DL person mostly, though I am going to WDW in January we hope, so I did not want to give specifics in case I was incorrect.


----------



## disney david

KPeveler said:


> Thank you David - I am a DL person mostly, though I am going to WDW in January we hope, so I did not want to give specifics in case I was incorrect.



No problem I going to dl in feb for my birthday plus you picked a great time less busy and cooler. 

They could change after roll out I know some people have gotten an extra choice during testing. So I am not sure if they seeing if four works or keep it at three. I do hope they allow park hopping with them because for example at Dhs I do you story mania but would like to use the other two at Epcot or mk but can't for now. 


I like how they have them for parades and soon fire works which might be better option then das for some guest.


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## SueM in MN

disney david said:


> You get to make three per day at one park per day they give you options and you pick the time that works best for you. If they don't pick the closet one and then you allowed to try and change  the time and it give you more times to choose from if their available.


Just to clarify - this is Fastpass +

It is currently being tested at WDW. At this time, people doing testing can pre-choose 3 attractions per day at one park per day.
There is opportunity to change the pre-chosen options on the day at the park, either by using a smart phone with the My Disney Experience app or at designated spots in the park.

During the testing, it is just 3 attractions, but it could possibly be more when it rolls out.


----------



## disney david

SueM in MN said:


> Just to clarify - this is Fastpass +
> 
> It is currently being tested at WDW. At this time, people doing testing can pre-choose 3 attractions per day at one park per day.
> There is opportunity to change the pre-chosen options on the day at the park, either by using a smart phone with the My Disney Experience app or at designated spots in the park.
> 
> During the testing, it is just 3 attractions, but it could possibly be more when it rolls out.



Thanks I was respond to kpeveler and should of add fast  pass + in the response.  They have put kiosks the through out the park to make the changes.


----------



## cmwade77

KPeveler said:


> One correction to this post: As of Saturday night, as well as two nights the previous week that I went to see Fantasmic, CMs were stating exactly what I said - that if you did not have a physical wheelchair, you needed to view the show elsewhere.  The last time I was told this was this past Saturday.  I saw two different parties with GACs with a wheelchair stamp being turned away.  One of the three times I have listened to this speech in the last two weeks, a manager (shirt and tie, not just with a radio) was the one saying it.  I saw no benches in the wheelchair viewing area, and if they are there, they are all the way to the left of the section, close to the exit.
> 
> This speech was said before the area was even opened to guests for the second show. I heard it being said to guests after the area had been opened for the first show, but when it was NOT full.
> 
> So perhaps you went to WOC on Saturday, but I was basing what I wrote on my actual experiences this Saturday.
> 
> I did say that there were benches at the very back, at least, of the WOC show.
> 
> I mostly wanted to point out that most DAS cards will NOT be given for mobility concerns.  Most DAS cards will be given for other conditions, and I mostly did not want people thinking this would mean the area is open or less crowded for people with autism and social phobias.  And for guests who have the DAS who may also be looking for a place to sit down, not all parade areas in DL have benches (I know the one in the hub does), and they too are very very crowded.



Strange, that has never been my experience for me or anyone near me. I do wonder if it's because I know most of the managers there and they know I wouldn't accept that and it wouldn't matter if it's my party or not, I would stick up for them. as I said though, I don't think it provides the best viewing of the show. There are benches to the left of that section, at least normally, but as you say it is to the very left of that section. 

As for the parade, I guess I have always been lucky in main Street, we almost always have a bench to our selves with maybe two or three others on the benches and about 5 wheelchairs. normally they ask that anyone that can stand do so next to the section or behind the benches when possible.


----------



## Minuet888

Spoot said:


> I find it disgusting that people on an autism board would be discussing ways to abuse the system - all the while yelling about how they (and their children) are being punished because Disney wanted to stop abusers.



I realize this may have gotten taken out of context but on the boards people were pointing out that Disney has solved nothing because there are still several ways to abuse the system, this led to an argument by a couple of people how and name one and after an argument the person named only one way but said there were several other way (but didn't go into details) they were not encouraging doing this in any sort of way and this was only said for this one guy to prove his point during an argument.  That's all.
I think the proof thing is bull I think the very disabled people that created that law shot themselves in the foot because look at what it is causing.  If you have to show proof of disability for something as serious as SSI or other things then why not show it for Disneylnad.
Disneyland boasts about being the biggest resort in the world and the CM's have said that if they were requiring proof they would have to hire a doctor to make judgements about the GAC cards, ya know what?  Then hire one.  If you are the biggest resort you have the money do it.



KPeveler said:


> First question: There is no FastPass+ at Disneyland, only Disney World.  Disneyland is years out from having FP+, which I think allows you to make a certain number of FP+ reservations ahead of time.
> 
> Second question: If you require a wheelchair, and have someone to push you (which is the part about your husband going, if I read it correctly), then you are certainly welcome to use the wheelchair.  But having a wheelchair, whether your own or a rental, does NOT mean that you qualify for a DAS.  You would need to have concerns beyond those met by the wheelchair.  So, no, you cannot "double down" by renting a wheelchair.  You will NOT get a return time for the wheelchair.  In Disneyland, you will be directed to the wheelchair accessible queue, which is generally a line in or outside of the exit.  In DCA, that is the mainstream queue.
> 
> .



Thank you for answering about the Fastpass+ system I was sure I had never heard of that at Disneyland before.

I honestly don't care about the wheelchair thing because I'm not going to use it I'm not going to abuse the system, but even say no wheel chair say instead of the wheelchair a second person in the party could get their own DAS by saying whatever they wanted (since no proof was required) then two people in the same party have a DAS and can get two return time tickets for two different rides at the same time, see my point?  That's all I was getting at.  This all stemmed from an argument on the autism board.  I do not encourage breaking the rules nor abusing the system.


----------



## Aladora

Minuet888 said:


> I realize it hasn't been implanted yet.
> 
> It does NOT seem like an evolving program to me, especially with people telling me it's here it's staying and get used to it.
> 
> Granted I'm not a fortune teller about the lines but I am using my knowledge of what we have went through in the past to get things do things and that's BEFORE this system is in effect and EVERYONE has to go to the same place makes it all the more worse.
> 
> Same thing with the kiosks.
> 
> It is difficult for me to say give it a chance when I already know what does and doesn't work for my son.  Sure let's go all the way down there (getting my son excited in the process) and when we get there it's a nightmare my son has several meltdowns but I'll put him through all that just for me to confirm what I already know about my son, he can't do this.  Forgive me for being "ranty" but I'm the only one who can when it comes to my son because he can't do it for himself.



The reason I called it an evolving program is that ever since the first hint of the new system was posted here, there have been constant updates to what people think and claim to know about how it is to be implemented. Just because it is here to stay does not mean it has not and will not continue to change and be worked on.

Some of the changes so far:

First, there were going to be kiosks in WDW and DL/DCA and you cannot get a return time at the attraction.

Then there were not going to be kiosks in WDW and you could get a return time at the attraction.

Then there were going to be kiosks in WDW but you could also get a return time at the attraction.

First you could only get a DAS for 1 day.

Then you could get it for up to 3 days if you were staying onsite.

Then you could get it for the length of your stay if you could prove you were staying for that length of time but AP holders could only get it for 1 day.

Then AP holders could get it for up to 3 days, then 5 days then 2 weeks.

First the DAS holder had to be at the kiosk to request a return time.

Then then DAS golder did not have to be at the kiosk to request a return time.

I could go on, but I hope you get my point about it evolving and that we just simply do not know what to expect on day 1 of the new system. We do not know what to expect on day 30 of the new system, nor on day 180.

And besides, I never said you should drag your son down and see how fast he melts down, what I said was that we should all wait and see how the program is actually implemented before we all fly off our collective handle. That was the wait and see, let's wait and see how Disneyland and Disney World actually handle this new system in reality as opposed to how we all fear they are going to handle it.

And then, at the end of the day if the new system absolutely will not work for you and your son then yes, by all means try and get a refund for the unused portion of your annual passes. 

Of course, you should be an advocate for your son but preferential treatment is not something that should be expected or demanded. And really, what the old GAC was giving us was preferential treatment. The new DAS is giving us what we have always claimed to need, an alternate way to wait. We will now be able to wait in an area or manner that gives us equal access to attractions without giving us faster entrance. And if you can't see that, then I really don't have anything else I can say because no matter how much it might pain us to admit it, the old system was not equal access, it was better.


----------



## Spoot

Minuet888 said:


> I realize this may have gotten taken out of context but on the boards people were pointing out that Disney has solved nothing because there are still several ways to abuse the system, this led to an argument by a couple of people how and name one and after an argument the person named only one way but said there were several other way (but didn't go into details) they were not encouraging doing this in any sort of way and this was only said for this one guy to prove his point during an argument.  That's all.
> I think the proof thing is bull I think the very disabled people that created that law shot themselves in the foot because look at what it is causing.  If you have to show proof of disability for something as serious as SSI or other things then why not show it for Disneylnad.
> Disneyland boasts about being the biggest resort in the world and the CM's have said that if they were requiring proof they would have to hire a doctor to make judgements about the GAC cards, ya know what?  Then hire one.  If you are the biggest resort you have the money do it.



As has been said a few times, although there have been recent stories about abuse, the change has been in the works for quite a while and is more to do with the system being overwhelmed by people using it properly (using it in the manner it have evolved into) than to get rid of the abusers.

So, you complain about possibly having to wait 20 minutes to get a pass, but you'd be okay with the hours (or days) it would take if they hired a doctor to make judgments about the cards?  No way a doctor can look at someone and tell how disabled they are.  Think about how many months it takes for the SSI proof to be made.  

I'm also confused about your comparison of SSI and a GAC.  I have no problem with providing as much proof as necessary to get our version of the SSI (though none of the people I travel to WDW with would qualify), but I'm not going to go through all those hoops just to tour WDW/DL.  Your comment says it for you - the SSI is something serious, the DAS/GAS is not.


----------



## cmwade77

Aladora said:


> The reason I called it an evolving program is that ever since the first hint of the new system was posted here, there have been constant updates to what people think and claim to know about how it is to be implemented. Just because it is here to stay does not mean it has not and will not continue to change and be worked on.
> 
> Some of the changes so far:
> 
> First, there were going to be kiosks in WDW and DL/DCA and you cannot get a return time at the attraction.
> 
> Then there were not going to be kiosks in WDW and you could get a return time at the attraction.
> 
> Then there were going to be kiosks in WDW but you could also get a return time at the attraction.
> 
> First you could only get a DAS for 1 day.
> 
> Then you could get it for up to 3 days if you were staying onsite.
> 
> Then you could get it for the length of your stay if you could prove you were staying for that length of time but AP holders could only get it for 1 day.
> 
> Then AP holders could get it for up to 3 days, then 5 days then 2 weeks.
> 
> First the DAS holder had to be at the kiosk to request a return time.
> 
> Then then DAS golder did not have to be at the kiosk to request a return time.
> 
> I could go on, but I hope you get my point about it evolving and that we just simply do not know what to expect on day 1 of the new system. We do not know what to expect on day 30 of the new system, nor on day 180.
> 
> And besides, I never said you should drag your son down and see how fast he melts down, what I said was that we should all wait and see how the program is actually implemented before we all fly off our collective handle. That was the wait and see, let's wait and see how Disneyland and Disney World actually handle this new system in reality as opposed to how we all fear they are going to handle it.
> 
> And then, at the end of the day if the new system absolutely will not work for you and your son then yes, by all means try and get a refund for the unused portion of your annual passes.
> 
> Of course, you should be an advocate for your son but preferential treatment is not something that should be expected or demanded. And really, what the old GAC was giving us was preferential treatment. The new DAS is giving us what we have always claimed to need, an alternate way to wait. We will now be able to wait in an area or manner that gives us equal access to attractions without giving us faster entrance. And if you can't see that, then I really don't have anything else I can say because no matter how much it might pain us to admit it, the old system was not equal access, it was better.



So very well put, thank you.


----------



## cmwade77

Let's please remember to be civil and keep the thread on topic, so that the mods don't have to close the thread. It is supposed to bet here to discuss the changes and learn how they affect us, not to attack one another.


----------



## KPeveler

Minuet888 said:


> I think the proof thing is bull I think the very disabled people that created that law shot themselves in the foot because look at what it is causing.  If you have to show proof of disability for something as serious as SSI or other things then why not show it for Disneylnad.



As has been explained many times in this forum for years, the reason Disney cannot require proof is that the DAS is designed to facilitate EQUAL access.  Things that are SPECIAL access, such as disabled parking, SSDI, etc - those are not things the general public has access to.

Disneyland IS something the general public has access to, therefore, no proof can be required.  I can give a whole list of reasons why proof cannot be required, but most of them come down to this - The law was not written for Disney - it was written for everywhere!  And I am NOT carrying proof with me everywhere I go stating I really do need my wheelchair.  And managers cannot require proof at Target when you go to buy groceries that your child really is autistic, and not just badly behaved, to allow you into the store.  There are a million scenarios.

Anyway - yes, people will come up with ways to abuse the system, but most will lose interest when they do not get instant access.


----------



## KPeveler

Minuet888 said:


> I realize it hasn't been implanted yet.
> 
> It does NOT seem like an evolving program to me, especially with people telling me it's here it's staying and get used to it.
> 
> Disney isn't solving anything.



Two things about the above quoted post- 

*One*, it is an evolving system, as I stated in an earlier post.  A Guest Relations manager said that they have changed parts of the system several times over the last 10 days.

Yes, the DAS system is here (tomorrow) and is here to stay.  They will NOT go back to the GAC system, but that does not mean the DAS rules that go out Day One will stay the same forever.  Of course they will learn as time goes on, and alter the system in small ways.



*Two*, Disney is solving a great many things, they are just not solving it in a way you prefer for your family.


And now a third, unrelated topic...
*Three*, I have seen a great many things going around about how maybe in the future Disney will allow two DAS return times, etc.  Such speculation may make us feel better, but PLEASE remember it is speculation.

Also, there has been speculation that kids who do not understand waiting or cannot wait due to autism will get faster access.  I want to make it clear that Disney has absolutely NO intention on having different "levels" of DAS, especially one based on diagnosis.  I can give three quick reasons for that:

One, I have ADHD and sensory processing problems and I have been told that may, according to some doctors put me on the spectrum.  Therefore I qualify.  They cannot pick out one diagnosis without picking out others "like" it.

Two, how do you think the GAC system broke?  People found out what gave them the "best" access and then went to GR and said they had that!

Three, well, my friend she cannot stand or sit upright (that's right, wheelchair does not help at all) due to a rare condition she only has because of another rare condition, for more than 2-3 hours, and only about 1 in the heat.  That is "worse" than autism, right?

Of course I do not think we can rank diagnoses, and my above statement is simply an example of how Disney is not going to pick one sub-group to get different or "better" DAS service.

Disney may well adapt the DAS system in the future, to allow for more Return Times at once during more crowded times, or allow for one "E" ticket wait, and another "not as popular" ride wait time.  There are many options they are looking at for the future.

Right now, however, we have the system we have.  And we must actually use that system, try it, and if it does not work for our family, then write to Disney about it.  Disney is NOT going to change the system by tomorrow - they are more interested in hearing experiences, not pre-judgements.


----------



## KPeveler

And, finally, a warning - 

Please keep things civil.  There have been personal attacks based on people not completely reading the posts of others.  Even if you have completely read the post, there will be NO personal attacks of any kind.  If you feel the post is inappropriate or damaging, please report it.  I can promise you all Sue and I have been doing for the last 2 weeks with our free time is deal with this issue, and we will get to it.

If you have been attacked by someone, please do not reply to them on the thread.  Please report the post, and we will deal with it.  Even if you were the initial victim of an attack, if you attack the poster personally in return, warnings and points WILL be handed out to both parties.

Also, from this point on, no quotes from or links to other forums will be allowed.  I have updated the first post, with the guidelines for this forum, to reflect this.  I am also copying the rules here once more, as people seem to have forgotten some of them in the heated debate.  I have bolded the new new addition, as well as one particular guideline that is important if this thread is to remain helpful to people with questions.

1) Follow the Disboards posting guidelines 
No sarcasm, no personal attacks, no name-calling. In other words, play nice. As Thumper's mom said, "If you don't have something nice to say...don't say nothing at all."

2) Be respectful of others. Many people are afraid of the unknown and are feeling very vulnerable right now. People have different disabilities/needs and different comfort levels about their disabilities. Because this is a new & unfamiliar way of doing things, people are concerned.

3)* No debates:

about whether Disney is right or wrong
about whether a change was needed
about asking for a doctor's letter or proof of disability
about any particular disability being worse/more disabled/truly disabled/more in need of accommodation.
*

4) No posting of links to blogs, *other forums, quotes from other forums* or petitions - We want this to be a helpful thread, not a list of people who are panicked and not willing to give the new program a try. If you want to share those, send them by Private Message or email to your friends. *If you are unsure about whether such a quote or post from another source would be helpful to the thread, please send it to the moderators.*

Thank you for your understanding of these rules.


----------



## cmwade77

KPeveler, I would like to thank both you and SueM for doing all that you do.

This is definitely a topic that get become uncivilized very fast, so I can only imagine how hard it is for you guys to stay on top of all of this. But, it is nice to have a place to come and not worry about all of the bad stuff that many other places focus on, but rather get the facts about the system. Thanks to this board, I know largely what to expect and I knew what questions I needed to ask when I emailed Disney directly. Without that, I would be a lot more concerned about the new system. The information you have here, combined with the information I have received directly from Disney definitely makes me less concerned about the new system.

I'm not saying that I don't have any concerns, I do, but they are now fewer at least.


----------



## Minuet888

*"Many people are afraid of the unknown and are feeling very vulnerable right now."*

Thank you for posting that KPeveler.  I think that really defines what I am feeling right now. As I've said many times before I am the only one who knows what works and doesn't work for my child and I kind of feel like Disney came in and said here, this is what works for your child.  I am feeling very vulnerable right now and I don't like feeling that way especially when it comes to my son as I am the only one who can stick up for him.  So please understand that from my point of view. Please.  In the meantime I am going to take a break from this thread as it is stressing me out in all honesty.
And thank you admins for taking care of that other problem.


----------



## Poohsmommi

Aladora said:


> Of course, you should be an advocate for your son but preferential treatment is not something that should be expected or demanded. And really, what the old GAC was giving us was preferential treatment. The new DAS is giving us what we have always claimed to need, an alternate way to wait. We will now be able to wait in an area or manner that gives us equal access to attractions without giving us faster entrance. And if you can't see that, then I really don't have anything else I can say because no matter how much it might pain us to admit it, the old system was not equal access, it was better.



Amen!  Good for you.  I'm tired of reading all of the complaints (they are SO bad on facebook).


----------



## KPeveler

And the complaints are worse in park...

I am recently back from the park and no one is giving out any information, unless you happen to have a good connection.  One of these people with a connection told me today that Disneyland would be using Wheelchair Return Cards at select attractions in Disneyland Park only (of course, everything in DCA is accessible).

Apparently the goal of these cards is to eliminate the long wheelchair lines at non-mainstreamed lines.  (Whether that happens remains to be seen).

This contradicts what I heard earlier this week, but that does not surprise me.

So!  If you are going to DL tomorrow be ready for there to be Wheelchair Return Cards being given out at "select attractions" - I do not know which ones they are!  I was not told this directly by Guest Relations, but I trust the person.  

I am not sure what this means, who qualifies as needing a "Wheelchair Return Card" (some sort of visual cue I expect) - I will keep updating as this moves forward.


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## SueM in MN

KPeveler said:


> And the complaints are worse in park...
> 
> I am recently back from the park and no one is giving out any information, unless you happen to have a good connection.  One of these people with a connection told me today that Disneyland would be using Wheelchair Return Cards at select attractions in Disneyland Park only (of course, everything in DCA is accessible).
> 
> Apparently the goal of these cards is to eliminate the long wheelchair lines at non-mainstreamed lines.  (Whether that happens remains to be seen).
> 
> This contradicts what I heard earlier this week, but that does not surprise me.
> 
> So!  If you are going to DL tomorrow be ready for there to be Wheelchair Return Cards being given out at "select attractions" - I do not know which ones they are!  I was not told this directly by Guest Relations, but I trust the person.
> 
> I am not sure what this means, who qualifies as needing a "Wheelchair Return Card" (some sort of visual cue I expect) - I will keep updating as this moves forward.


I updated post one of this thread.

The wheelchair return cards you mention were actually in one of the earlier Disney releases. So, not new.

They were actually mentioned in information I had gotten about 2 weeks ago.


----------



## KPeveler

SueM in MN said:


> I updated post one of this thread.
> 
> The wheelchair return cards you mention were actually in one of the earlier Disney releases. So, not new.
> 
> They were actually mentioned in information I had gotten about 2 weeks ago.



I had just had confirmation from multiple sources that DL was not doing the cards, but things must have still been in flux.

Doesn't really matter - they are happening, so I just wanted to confirm it, even if someone (even me) was told something different in the parks...


----------



## SueM in MN

A good couple of reminders:

Everything is going to be new for guests using the new program, but also for CMs, so please everyone be patient with CMs and other guests.

There are people (like the protesters that are apparently coming to DL) who are hoping the program fails and really not giving it a chance. I just hope no one gets hurt out of all this.

One final reminder, the first few days and weeks are going to be the hardest because everything is just getting settled. It probably won't be all worked out for a while. Anyone going in the near future should expect waits and some snafus - expecting everything to roll out completely smoothly would be kind of like going shopping on Black Friday and expecting the stores to be completely empty - it's just not going to happen.


----------



## Aladora

SueM in MN said:


> Everything is going to be new for guests using the new program, but also for CMs, so please everyone be patient with CMs and other guests.


----------



## KPeveler

SueM in MN said:


> A good couple of reminders:
> 
> Everything is going to be new for guests using the new program, but also for CMs, so please everyone be patient with CMs and other guests.
> 
> There are people (like the protesters that are apparently coming to DL) who are hoping the program fails and really not giving it a chance. I just hope no one gets hurt out of all this.
> 
> One final reminder, the first few days and weeks are going to be the hardest because everything is just getting settled. It probably won't be all worked out for a while. Anyone going in the near future should expect waits and some snafus - expecting everything to roll out completely smoothly would be kind of like going shopping on Black Friday and expecting the stores to be completely empty - it's just not going to happen.



Agreeing with all of this.

I spoke to some of my favorite CMs tonight and they are terrified.  It is the attractions CMs who will bear the brunt of the system change, even though they have NO control over it.

So if you are frustrated at an attraction, please do not be mean to the attraction CMs - they are just doing what they were told from above.  I suggest finding the nearest kiosk (in DL) or asking for a lead (WDW) who can get you to someone from Guest Relations.

If everyone is patient, that will help the most!


----------



## piratenightmares

As a mother of 2 autistic sons (ages 19 and 10) who both have a difficult time being over stimulated, lashing out at people, being extremely disruptive (violent), completely unable to stand in lines, etc...I took them to Disneyland for years without a GAC. 

I didn't even know such a thing existed until a few years ago. I learned to adapt and do what I could do with my kids at DL. We planned things, escape plans, etc, and dealt with things as they came. NOT having a GAC didn't hurt us at all. We went anyway and had WONDERFUL times! 

In 2009 I was told about the GAC by my kids' therapist. She suggested it might make things easier for the 'rest of the crowd' because they were very disruptive in lines or very close proximity with strangers. The GAC did make things easier for us and I have been very grateful I learned of it and was able to use it the last few years. 

That said, if they suddenly ended the GAC or DAS tomorrow, it wouldn't be any different for us than BEFORE I knew about the GAC. We don't get 'assistance' when we go most other places. We have to deal with what comes everywhere else. 

I am grateful Disneyland has ANY accommodations for cognitive disabilities/autism and other non-mobility disabilities. Whatever this new system is I am grateful they have one at all. It will be different, sure. There will be pros and cons as there are with any plan like this. 

No matter what my kids' issues are I WILL figure out ways we can go to Disneyland and have a great time regardless of any GAC or DAS they might provide.


----------



## toocherie

KPeveler said:


> One of these people with a connection told me today that Disneyland would be using Wheelchair Return Cards at select attractions in Disneyland Park only (of course, everything in DCA is accessible).



So I guess that answers the question I had--because I was reading that wheelchair/ECV users did not need a DAS card so I wondered how that would work at non-mainstreamed lines.  Disneyland has already been doing something similar at Star Tours so that works for me!  I hope they do it for Pirates and Space Mountain because those alternative lines get so long!

Really wish I could go to the park today to see the new program in action for myself.  It's raining here now (I live 15 minutes from the park) so that may reduce the crowd size and maybe make implementation on the first day a little easier (I hope).


----------



## IndianaPrincess

SueM in MN said:


> A good couple of reminders:
> 
> Everything is going to be new for guests using the new program, but also for CMs, so please everyone be patient with CMs and other guests.
> 
> There are people (like the protesters that are apparently coming to DL) who are hoping the program fails and really not giving it a chance. I just hope no one gets hurt out of all this.
> 
> *One final reminder, the first few days and weeks are going to be the hardest because everything is just getting settled. It probably won't be all worked out for a while. Anyone going in the near future should expect waits and some snafus - expecting everything to roll out completely smoothly would be kind of like going shopping on Black Friday and expecting the stores to be completely empty - it's just not going to happen.*



This is what I am stressing over. I wouldn't take my son out shopping on Black Friday... but we're locked into this trip. We thought we were making a good choice in vacation time, but it ended up being the worst possible month to go. I'm gonna be nice and patient, but I'm just have a poor me time with this. Thousands of dollars and months of planning and research, so I'm hoping this changeover goes smoother than expected.


----------



## tiggerfied

Aladora said:


> The new DAS is giving us what we have always claimed to need, an alternate way to wait. We will now be able to wait in an area or manner that gives us equal access to attractions without giving us faster entrance.



I, for one, am optimistic that Disney will continue to address the needs of those with disabilities on an individual basis. Even among those who share the same disability (e.g. autism) there is such a variation in needs. Everything I read seems to point out that, no matter what, under the new system Disney will be flexible and will listen to individual requests for accommodations. For instance, as mentioned in the above quote, for some people equal access means waiting in a quiet area until their scheduled return time. For others, like my son, who can only bear to be in park no more than 90 mins. at a time, equal access may mean faster wait times so that he might be able to ride e.g. three rides before his stamina is spent.


----------



## luv2sleep

piratenightmares said:


> As a mother of 2 autistic sons (ages 19 and 10) who both have a difficult time being over stimulated, lashing out at people, being extremely disruptive (violent), completely unable to stand in lines, etc...I took them to Disneyland for years without a GAC.  I didn't even know such a thing existed until a few years ago. I learned to adapt and do what I could do with my kids at DL. We planned things, escape plans, etc, and dealt with things as they came. NOT having a GAC didn't hurt us at all. We went anyway and had WONDERFUL times!  In 2009 I was told about the GAC by my kids' therapist. She suggested it might make things easier for the 'rest of the crowd' because they were very disruptive in lines or very close proximity with strangers. The GAC did make things easier for us and I have been very grateful I learned of it and was able to use it the last few years.  That said, if they suddenly ended the GAC or DAS tomorrow, it wouldn't be any different for us than BEFORE I knew about the GAC. We don't get 'assistance' when we go most other places. We have to deal with what comes everywhere else.  I am grateful Disneyland has ANY accommodations for cognitive disabilities/autism and other non-mobility disabilities. Whatever this new system is I am grateful they have one at all. It will be different, sure. There will be pros and cons as there are with any plan like this.  No matter what my kids' issues are I WILL figure out ways we can go to Disneyland and have a great time regardless of any GAC or DAS they might provide.



For DL this was us. I managed fine without the GAC for years.   DL is a much easier resort to manage with special needs kiddo because everything is so close and accessible. We easily flip back and forth from one park to another depending upon the crowd levels and times attractions are offered. I also find CA park lower key and easier to your. 

WDW is another story. I don't think I would want to visit there without a disability pass. I find it too spread out, crowded, exhausting, and overwhelming.


----------



## clanmcculloch

Minuet888 said:


> *"Many people are afraid of the unknown and are feeling very vulnerable right now."*
> 
> Thank you for posting that KPeveler.  I think that really defines what I am feeling right now. As I've said many times before I am the only one who knows what works and doesn't work for my child and I kind of feel like Disney came in and said here, this is what works for your child.  I am feeling very vulnerable right now and I don't like feeling that way especially when it comes to my son as I am the only one who can stick up for him.  So please understand that from my point of view. Please.  In the meantime I am going to take a break from this thread as it is stressing me out in all honesty.
> And thank you admins for taking care of that other problem.



I think that what people have been trying to explain is that nobody is telling you how to tour.  As you said, you know what does and doesn't work.  All anybody is trying to say is to be open to different ideas of how to tour with your son.  What you've been doing in the past isn't going to be an option any longer.  So, what exactly does trigger him, what works for him outside of WDW when he can't do the same activity over and over, what works for him outside of WDW when there are crowds, etc?  If you share things like that with us then maybe we can offer suggestions for how to make it possible to tour using the new DAS coupled with strategies that many of us have used successfully.  I for one would love to help.  What I can't do is say that you'll be able to continue doing what you have done in the past at WDW.  None of us can.  We're all trying to figure out how to adapt.

I get the anxiety you're going through.  It's rough.  Having to change something that's always worked is very stressful.  Lets lean on each other during this change.


----------



## lanejudy

tiggerfied said:


> I, for one, am optimistic that Disney will continue to address the needs of those with disabilities on an individual basis. Even among those who share the same disability (e.g. autism) there is such a variation in needs. Everything I read seems to point out that, no matter what, under the new system Disney will be flexible and will listen to individual requests for accommodations. For instance, as mentioned in the above quote, for some people equal access means waiting in a quiet area until their scheduled return time. *For others, like my son, who can only bear to be in park no more than 90 mins. at a time, equal access may mean faster wait times so that he might be able to ride e.g. three rides before his stamina is spent.*



I agree with you that to some extent Disney will be flexible as possible to meet certain needs.  However, I think you need to be realistic in that "faster waits" for less time in the parks is simply not an "equal" accommodation.  There are many people who would appreciate faster waits and less time in the park, more time for something else.  I don't see that happening with the DAS.

Have you tried taking a break (or 2 or 3) during the day?  Maybe back to the resort to decompress and return to the park later?  Or maybe just a quieter spot within the park to have a snack, listen to his favorite music (headphones), read a book or whatever helps to calm him?  That would essentially extend your park day and allow you to get more done.  Spreading out his rides with breaks between might actually increase his stamina because it's not constant back-to-back-to-back stimulation of 3 rides close together.  

Just a suggestion ... I certainly hope you are able to find a way to make your vacations enjoyable!


----------



## Aladora

lanejudy said:


> I agree with you that to some extent Disney will be flexible as possible to meet certain needs.  However, I think you need to be realistic in that "faster waits" for less time in the parks is simply not an "equal" accommodation.  There are many people who would appreciate faster waits and less time in the park, more time for something else.  I don't see that happening with the DAS.
> 
> *Have you tried taking a break (or 2 or 3) during the day?  Maybe back to the resort to decompress and return to the park later?  Or maybe just a quieter spot within the park to have a snack, listen to his favorite music (headphones), read a book or whatever helps to calm him? * That would essentially extend your park day and allow you to get more done.  Spreading out his rides with breaks between might actually increase his stamina because it's not constant back-to-back-to-back stimulation of 3 rides close together.
> 
> Just a suggestion ... I certainly hope you are able to find a way to make your vacations enjoyable!



This is exactly what we do. Even though our son is 8, we still go back to the hotel every day for "rest time." (We can't call it nap time, he gets really insulted because "only babies take naps!") We have lunch at the park then go back to the hotel for at least an hour. He can rest, watch tv or play on his DS, while my husband and I usually sleep! 

We also spend a fair bit of time in the Main Street Cinema. It's rarely crowded, it's air conditioned and my son can decompress while watching cartoons. It's somewhere that I highly recommend to parents with kids who get overwhelmed for any reason, be it autism or any other reason.


----------



## luv2sleep

We got our pass! The line at guest services took about 10 min. I found out you can get a fast pass and a DAS return pass so it's not bad. We are at DL which is an easier resort anyway though.


----------



## tiggerfied

You know, just when I thought I had heard (and tried) every tip to extend my son's ability to stay in the park, you got me!!  I have never been in the Main Street Cinema (even though I've been going to Disneyland since I was a baby in 1957 - AND worked there one summer too!).  I love that idea...it sounds right up my son's alley, too!  Thank you!


----------



## Aladora

luv2sleep said:


> We got our pass! The line at guest services took about 10 min. I found out you can get a fast pass and a DAS return pass so it's not bad. We are at DL which is an easier resort anyway though.



Thanks for the update! It's great to hear from someone who is actually at the park and actually getting a DAS instead of "what ifs and who knows!"



tiggerfied said:


> You know, just when I thought I had heard (and tried) every tip to extend my son's ability to stay in the park, you got me!!  I have never been in the Main Street Cinema (even though I've been going to Disneyland since I was a baby in 1957 - AND worked there one summer too!).  I love that idea...it sounds right up my son's alley, too!  Thank you!



It's fantastic! Cool, low lighting, black and white cartoons with just music playing and it is rarely busy! What more could you ask for? 

Although, to be honest, I am getting a bit tired of watching the same cartoons over and over and over and over but my husband and I tend to trade off, I'll stay with the boy while he goes and grabs coffee and then he will stay while I go and shop! 

Glad I could give some helpful advice!


----------



## luv2sleep

tiggerfied said:


> You know, just when I thought I had heard (and tried) every tip to extend my son's ability to stay in the park, you got me!!  I have never been in the Main Street Cinema (even though I've been going to Disneyland since I was a baby in 1957 - AND worked there one summer too!).  I love that idea...it sounds right up my son's alley, too!  Thank you!



I've been coming here for years and just noticed the cinema today! We are going to try that.


----------



## tlovesdis

subscribing to this thread

I use an ECV in DL and am going to be there in 2 weeks.  I will most definitley come back and tell you my experience with the new system!


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## KPeveler

tlovesdis said:


> subscribing to this thread
> 
> I use an ECV in DL and am going to be there in 2 weeks.  I will most definitley come back and tell you my experience with the new system!



You will not need a DAS to use the ECV. If you have invisible conditions that are not met by using the ECV, then you may be eligible for a DAS in addition.


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## luv2sleep

What I've found today is that we are definitely doing less without the GAC. After 3 hrs my son has determined he's done no matter how much we've gone on. We will definitely be doing less per visit this way.

Eta, as locals this is not a big deal but it would be for WDW.


----------



## KPeveler

Sorry to all DL people - I hurt my shoulder last night (rolling over in bed - the fun of EDS!), so I can't get to DL tonight.  Besides, it was "cold" (SoCal cold) and raining earlier, and I am pushing myself in a manual wheelchair.  The park also closes at 6, thought it is not a "party" night - but party or special event nights are very hard on me, as it is wall to wall pepple.

I will be going tomorrow, and I am definitely interested in anyone who went to DL today.  So far we have had a couple people reporting less than good experiences at WDW, and I am hoping DL does better.  

(I also need an ASL Interpretation Schedule for the weekend, and Sun/Mon does not come out until tomorrow)

I hope things go well in the park for everyone today, and I will report my experience tomorrow!


----------



## tlovesdis

KPeveler said:


> You will not need a DAS to use the ECV. If you have invisible conditions that are not met by using the ECV, then you may be eligible for a DAS in addition.



Oh I understand I won't need the DAS, but I have a feeling there may be changes to the wheelchair/ECV access as well and will report back.  I actually hope they do implement giving out a return time like they do for Star Tours and RSR.  I've waited longer in the ECV line for Pirates and Space Mountain than the regular line!!


----------



## disney david

KPeveler said:


> Sorry to all DL people - I hurt my shoulder last night (rolling over in bed - the fun of EDS!), so I can't get to DL tonight.  Besides, it was "cold" (SoCal cold) and raining earlier, and I am pushing myself in a manual wheelchair.  The park also closes at 6, thought it is not a "party" night - but party or special event nights are very hard on me, as it is wall to wall pepple.
> 
> I will be going tomorrow, and I am definitely interested in anyone who went to DL today.  So far we have had a couple people reporting less than good experiences at WDW, and I am hoping DL does better.
> 
> (I also need an ASL Interpretation Schedule for the weekend, and Sun/Mon does not come out until tomorrow)
> 
> I hope things go well in the park for everyone today, and I will report my experience tomorrow!



you don't have to say Sorry your health and safety comes first. Get better and hope you can make it to do tomorrow and all works out for you.


----------



## Aladora

KPeveler said:


> Sorry to all DL people - I hurt my shoulder last night (rolling over in bed - the fun of EDS!), so I can't get to DL tonight.  Besides, it was "cold" (SoCal cold) and raining earlier, and I am pushing myself in a manual wheelchair.  The park also closes at 6, thought it is not a "party" night - but party or special event nights are very hard on me, as it is wall to wall pepple.
> 
> I will be going tomorrow, and I am definitely interested in anyone who went to DL today.  So far we have had a couple people reporting less than good experiences at WDW, and I am hoping DL does better.
> 
> (I also need an ASL Interpretation Schedule for the weekend, and Sun/Mon does not come out until tomorrow)
> 
> I hope things go well in the park for everyone today, and I will report my experience tomorrow!



Sorry you hurt yourself, feel better soon!


----------



## piratenightmares

I would expect less than smooth sailing today, and probably for the next month, until the CM's have this figured out completely as well as the people using the DAS. I am hopeful it will smooth out within the next few months and we can all move forward.


----------



## luv2sleep

I was briefly looking at the WDW DAS thread and saw something about a specific diagnosis (autism) being discussed. I was only asked what his issues were just like before.


----------



## cmwade77

KPeveler said:


> Sorry to all DL people - I hurt my shoulder last night (rolling over in bed - the fun of EDS!), so I can't get to DL tonight.  Besides, it was "cold" (SoCal cold) and raining earlier, and I am pushing myself in a manual wheelchair.  The park also closes at 6, thought it is not a "party" night - but party or special event nights are very hard on me, as it is wall to wall pepple.
> 
> I will be going tomorrow, and I am definitely interested in anyone who went to DL today.  So far we have had a couple people reporting less than good experiences at WDW, and I am hoping DL does better.
> 
> (I also need an ASL Interpretation Schedule for the weekend, and Sun/Mon does not come out until tomorrow)
> 
> I hope things go well in the park for everyone today, and I will report my experience tomorrow!


It's not really a party night, a friend that works in the park told me that tonight is basically a trick or treat party for the CMs' kids. So, you probably wouldn't have wall to wall people tonight, but tomorrow should be a better day anyway, both weather and crowds. That being said, do prepare for it to be more crowded than it would normally be, due to local schools and a few nearby states having the week off. Most of the CMs that are working this week that I know say it is probably 3 times more crowded than what they would normally expect for this week. Granted that is talking to only a few people, in a few locations, but just a heads up.


----------



## luv2sleep

Forgot to add that none of the kiosks were very busy today.


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## IndianaPrincess

luv2sleep said:


> Forgot to add that none of the kiosks were very busy today.



Would you mind sharing where the kiosks are located? Thanks!


----------



## luv2sleep

IndianaPrincess said:


> Would you mind sharing where the kiosks are located? Thanks!



Main Street
New Orleans Sq
Fantasyland 
Tomorrowland


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## mjr0483

IndianaPrincess said:


> Would you mind sharing where the kiosks are located? Thanks!



I am curious too. Thanks


----------



## luv2sleep

I didn't go to CA today so I don't know where they are there. My son was only able to handle 3 hrs at DL today. It's now raining also so we are staying at the hotel for a while.


----------



## SueM in MN

This is copied ( with a bit of editing to remove GAC information) from the disABILITIES FAQs thread.
It has ALWAYS been Disney's policy to tell guests who say they can't stand to wait in line. They had not been enforcing it recently and had given out GACs to guests who insisted they had trouble standing.
The DAS ((Disability Access Service) is going back to saying the accommodation for issues with stamina or standing in line is to use a mobility device and in all likelihood, guests will not get a DAS for stamina, standing or walking issues.

*I have problems with standing in line or with walking. Why did Disney suggest a wheelchair of ECV (motorized scooter)?*
Disney calls these "Stamina or Endurance Concerns" and the official response is to suggest a wheelchair or ECV.
If the person has problems with standing in line or with walking, a wheelchair/ECV would be a better solution than a disability card.
A trip to Disney includes a lot more walking than just what you do in line.
There will most of the time be no place to sit while in line and no guarantee it will be available only for people with disabilities. 
The distance walked is not usually less with a DAS than without one, so someone who is concerned about walking or standing would do better with a mobility device and/or planning their day to hit the most popular attractions at the least busy times.
Most of the lines where you will actually standing still for long periods are the lines for shows and movies. Because those 'load' large numbers of people at a time, people have to stand waiting for the next show to 'load'. Having a Fastpass or a DAS won't change that - if each show is 14 minutes, you are going to be _somewhere_ for 14 minutes. In many shows, much of the time in that place will be a preshow area. If you don't have a mobility device, you will generally be standing during that time.

With an ECV or wheelchair, you will always have a place to sit and can conserve energy for fun, instead of just getting around. 
Having a mobility device doesn't mean you have to sit in it at all times. You can get out and walk for a while.


----------



## mommamonster

First of all, I wanted to say thank you to everyone for all the info, I am learning many new things today from this thread. Last year, on my son's first trip to DLR we did not know about the GAC nor were we aware at the time that his issues were not just from him being tired/cranky/out of sorts from all the walking/junk food eating but he actually has autism and ADHD. So, now I am trying to remember the things he had trouble dealing with last year, and compare with what we know now are the antecedents to meltdowns so I can tell Disney what we could use help with. 

Am I correct in understanding that they didn't take photos of the person with the GAC before but will photograph the person with the DAS now? I'm wondering how the CM's would go about taking the picture of my DS7 - as he is pretty sharp kid and will wonder why they don't need to take photos of his brother or the rest of us in the first place, plus he usually doesn't like to pose in photos (every character meal photo he is in the same pose - looking half bored, half annoyed), and can get upset when stared at by others. If anyone happens to be there in the next few days and the photo is being taken I'd love to hear how they approach the kiddos to take it. I wonder if I handed them his school photo from my wallet they could photograph it or copy/scan it - it might be easier! I just am worrying about it being uncomfortable for him right off the bat. 

Thanks for listening. I really appreciate getting perspective from all of the different folks posting here, not just those who experience ASD/ADHD.


----------



## cmwade77

luv2sleep said:
			
		

> Main Street
> New Orleans Sq
> Fantasyland
> Tomorrowland



Um, I was wondering if you could be a little more specific, such as by the exit of Haunted Mansion or what have you? 

It would definitely help with planning what order to do rides in to minimize backtracking. This is an issue that I see being a big one, especially for those in ECVs that do need the DAS due to additional issues, as they don't have an infinite amount of battery power.


----------



## luv2sleep

cmwade77 said:


> Um, I was wondering if you could be a little more specific, such as by the exit of Haunted Mansion or what have you?  It would definitely help with planning what order to do rides in to minimize backtracking. This is an issue that I see being a big one, especially for those in ECVs that do need the DAS due to additional issues, as they don't have an infinite amount of battery power.



I only saw two. 

Main Street was by at Central Plaza
Fantasyland is in front of The Mad Hatter

The other 2 are described on the piece of paper that I was given as: 

New Orleans sq near haunted mansion
Tomorrowland  near little green men store command


----------



## cmwade77

Ok, Space wise those make sense, but if you think about needs as well as accessible paths, the locations need some fine tuning. Hopefully they will do that.

I would also love to know where the ones in DCA are if anyone has that information.

Also, did they provide a list of attractions that you would need to get return times for? I understand that list may change from day to day, so I'm not necessarily asking for it, but I would like to know before I go all the way to a kiosk to did it that I could have gone directly to the attraction instead.


----------



## luv2sleep

I didn't park hop today. Someone asked me if you could have a DAS return time in DL and one in CA on the card at the same time? Or do you think it's just one at a time period no matter what park you are at? 

I wonder how it will work at WDW?


----------



## cmwade77

luv2sleep said:
			
		

> I didn't park hop today. Someone asked me if you could have a DAS return time in DL and one in CA on the card at the same time? Or do you think it's just one at a time period no matter what park you are at?
> 
> I wonder how it will work at WDW?



That is a good question indeed.


----------



## KPeveler

If I had to guess, I would say that you get one wait time, period.  The idea is that you are waiting in line, just in a safe place.  They do not tell you what you must do while that time is passing, allowing people to handle whatever their disability dictates as best, but you are "in line."  

And I believe it would be the same in Florida - where it is definitely harder to park hop.

This is based on my guesses and the statements of some Disney people in the past, so I cannot promise this is true.  I would just think that if they do not allow two wait times in one park, since that would mean being "in line" twice, you would not be able to be "in line" in two parks.

I am interested to see how the "wheelchair return cards" worked out today, and in the future - the idea was to eliminate wheelchair queues, like happen at Space Mountain, but I would be surprised if that actually happened.  After all, they spaced out people with disabilities quite a bit at RSR and there was always a wheelchair line.


----------



## KPeveler

cmwade77 said:


> Ok, Space wise those make sense, but if you think about needs as well as accessible paths, the locations need some fine tuning. Hopefully they will do that.
> 
> I would also love to know where the ones in DCA are if anyone has that information.
> 
> Also, did they provide a list of attractions that you would need to get return times for? I understand that list may change from day to day, so I'm not necessarily asking for it, but I would like to know before I go all the way to a kiosk to did it that I could have gone directly to the attraction instead.



I am going to rely on the app they use for that, to a certain extent.  I know I cannot push myself all over the park to find out.  Something that has not been made clear to me, are the kiosks "area" specific, or can I get a time for any DAS ride at any kiosk?  For instance, can I get a Space time at the kiosk at Haunted Mansion?  This would greatly help me plan and save energy for pushing if I could get my next time without having to cross the park!


----------



## luv2sleep

KPeveler said:


> I am going to rely on the app they use for that, to a certain extent.  I know I cannot push myself all over the park to find out.  Something that has not been made clear to me, are the kiosks "area" specific, or can I get a time for any DAS ride at any kiosk?  For instance, can I get a Space time at the kiosk at Haunted Mansion?  This would greatly help me plan and save energy for pushing if I could get my next time without having to cross the park!


  They told me that you can get a DAS return time for any ride from any kiosk.  I assumed this was just inside DL but now I'm wondering if you could get one in DL for a ride in CA. I doubt it but it will be interesting to find out.   I was reading on the WDW that a CM said to someone that. "The DAS is for the autistic." That seems pretty narrow to me if that's what it was designed for. In line at City Hall I saw a mom of a son with Down syndrome get one. Her son had similar issues as mine (ASD). The cm who said that should really learn how to talk to people about it.


----------



## disney david

luv2sleep said:


> They told me that you can get a DAS return time for any ride from any kiosk.  I assumed this was just inside DL but now I'm wondering if you could get one in DL for a ride in CA. I doubt it but it will be interesting to find out.
> 
> I was reading on the WDW that a CM said to someone that. "The DAS is for the autistic." That seems pretty narrow to me if that's what it was designed for. In line at City Hall I saw a mom of a son with Down syndrome get one  get one. Her son had similar issues as mine (ASD). The cm who said that should really learn ow to talk to people about it.



We don't know for sure if the cm really said that it it was a misunderstanding between the cm and guest.


----------



## luv2sleep

disney david said:


> We don't know for sure if the cm really said that it it was a misunderstanding between the cm and guest.



Oh ok.


----------



## disney david

luv2sleep said:


> Oh ok.



I just checked the wdw thread again and someone else had a problem at epcot but got a manager involved and think worked it out. So I think it could just be it so new the cms and managers are making some mistakes not saying they are saying it only for autism. But I think that a little more work needs to happen on both sides. 


Like to see reports from other parks so far it seems to have some problems at Epcot. Saw on twitter someone got one at mk but not sure their needs.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

We're headed to Disneyland tomorrow for the long weekend, and I will report back on our experience with DS16 special needs. We have used the various permutations of the assistance program since he was a toddler. 

One of my biggest questions--and something I hope someone who is there today (or yesterday)--can chime in on, is how the RP (return pass) is different from rides that have FP. Specifically, I'm wondering whether they are just funneling people into the FP line or whether with the RP we will be able to use the alternative entrance to bypass the FP line. Some of the FP lines can be really difficult for DS, (which is why we didn't use FP in the first place). If anyone could help clarify this part of the new program, I would really appreciate it.


----------



## disneymum58

I was interested in knowing what they are doing now at rides like Space Mountain?  I have been using the Exit to avoid the stairs with my GAC but I don't use a wheelchair. Are they giving out return cards or are people still waiting? How are they coordinating this with the DAS?


----------



## luv2sleep

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> We're headed to Disneyland tomorrow for the long weekend, and I will report back on our experience with DS16 special needs. We have used the various permutations of the assistance program since he was a toddler.  One of my biggest questions--and something I hope someone who is there today (or yesterday)--can chime in on, is how the RP (return pass) is different from rides that have FP. Specifically, I'm wondering whether they are just funneling people into the FP line or whether with the RP we will be able to use the alternative entrance to bypass the FP line. Some of the FP lines can be really difficult for DS, (which is why we didn't use FP in the first place). If anyone could help clarify this part of the new program, I would really appreciate it.



On Tues with the GAC we were sent to the alternate entrance line. Yesterday with the DAS we were sent it the FP line. This was for Star Tours.


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## CaliforniaGirl09

luv2sleep said:


> On Tues with the GAC we were sent to the alternate entrance line. Yesterday with the DAS we were sent it the FP line. This was for Star Tours.



UGH! This is exactly what I was hoping not to hear. ST is one of the rides I was thinking about. That doesn't make any sense as the RT is supposed to be geared toward the wait time, and some of the FP waits can be really long (ST, Soaring, etc.). Not sure why to have a RT at all if it's just a FP (on FP rides).


----------



## luv2sleep

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> UGH! This is exactly what I was hoping not to hear. ST is one of the rides I was thinking about. That doesn't make any sense as the RT is supposed to be geared toward the wait time, and some of the FP waits can be really long (ST, Soaring, etc.). Not sure why to have a RT at all if it's just a FP (on FP rides).



Oh no. I made a mistake! We used our own FP for that one. Sorry. I don't know what would happen with ST. I actually don't have a ride to compare with. Sorry for posting incorrectly. Hopefully someone else can better answer your question. Crowds were so low yesterday that we didn't use the DAS at all. My son can only take the parks for 3 hours so after 5 rides he was fine. Going to try toy story with the DAS today. Ill report back.  I used the GAC for it on Monday.


----------



## cmwade77

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> UGH! This is exactly what I was hoping not to hear. ST is one of the rides I was thinking about. That doesn't make any sense as the RT is supposed to be geared toward the wait time, and some of the FP waits can be really long (ST, Soaring, etc.). Not sure why to have a RT at all if it's just a FP (on FP rides).


From what I have been told, they are sending everyone to the FP queue by default; however, you are supposed to simply explain your need to the person directing you and they should allow the alternate entrance.

In my experience at ST, with the GAC I was always directed to the FP queue, but if I was having a bad day and couldn't do the steep ramp, I would simply tell them that I need the elevator.

I would expect the new system to work similar. If they direct in a way that does not meet your needs, explain your needs to them.


----------



## Aladora

cmwade77 said:


> In my experience at ST, with the GAC I was always directed to the FP queue,



I was about to post this. We have used the GAC on ST with our son every trip, it is his favourite ride. Every time we have used it, we have been directed into the FP line. Other than using the elevator, I didn't think there was an alternate entrance to ST?


----------



## cmwade77

Aladora said:


> I was about to post this. We have used the GAC on ST with our son every trip, it is his favourite ride. Every time we have used it, we have been directed into the FP line. Other than using the elevator, I didn't think there was an alternate entrance to ST?


There is for those with ECVs and electric wheelchairs. They are normally given a return time pass and directed to the exit, due to the fact that the entrance cannot support the weight of these devices.


----------



## Aladora

cmwade77 said:


> There is for those with ECVs and electric wheelchairs. They are normally given a return time pass and directed to the exit, due to the fact that the entrance cannot support the weight of these devices.



Huh, learn something new every day!


----------



## piratenightmares

Aladora said:


> I was about to post this. We have used the GAC on ST with our son every trip, it is his favourite ride. Every time we have used it, we have been directed into the FP line. Other than using the elevator, I didn't think there was an alternate entrance to ST?



We have been directed with GAC to the elevator on ST on several occasions so I think that must be the alternate entrance.


----------



## tlovesdis

Aladora said:


> I was about to post this. We have used the GAC on ST with our son every trip, it is his favourite ride. Every time we have used it, we have been directed into the FP line. Other than using the elevator, I didn't think there was an alternate entrance to ST?



Yes, the ECV's and Wheelchairs go through the exit for Star Tours.  It's actually kind of a pain because you have to go through the store, then navigate up the ramp that people are coming down!


----------



## piratenightmares

tlovesdis said:


> Yes, the ECV's and Wheelchairs go through the exit for Star Tours.  It's actually kind of a pain because you have to go through the store, then navigate up the ramp that people are coming down!



That's weird. We never had to do that before. We just went in through the elevator to the left of the main entrance. Never had to go in through the exit. We've gone through the elevator with my son's wheelchair and also without one using the GAC.


----------



## tlovesdis

piratenightmares said:


> That's weird. We never had to do that before. We just went in through the elevator to the left of the main entrance. Never had to go in through the exit. We've gone through the elevator with my son's wheelchair and also without one using the GAC.



Maybe the ECV can't fit in the elevator?  I've been using one for years and have always gone through the exit.  So maybe wheelchairs go through the elevator????  Not sure!


----------



## DLgal

DisFamily6 said:
			
		

> This may seem like a stupid question, but what would stop someone from Magic Kingdom to Hollywood Studios and getting another DAS card?



They take down a bunch of info, input it into a computer and take your picture. If you try to get another one, the system will alert the CM that one was already given out.


----------



## Minuet888

tlovesdis said:


> Maybe the ECV can't fit in the elevator?  I've been using one for years and have always gone through the exit.  So maybe wheelchairs go through the elevator????  Not sure!



They can fit in the elevator.
My mother had an ECV and they were the older models that were quite a bit larger.
(It was her own ECV and this was in the mid to late 90's)


----------



## Jperiod

What is the kiosk like?  Is it independant where you just stick your card in or is it a CM hand-writing stuff like at RSR?  

If they're sending the DAS to the FP line, are they taking that waiting into consideration as well?  As someone else said, Soarin' FP line is long!  If standby is 60, FP is 20, and 10 for walking back and forth, are they writing the DAS for 30 min?

And what are they doing about the rides with waits of 20 min or less?  My son can't go in the Peter Pan line because it's too tight and Casey Jr and Storybook because they're slow loaders.  He turns into a human bumper car in those lines.


----------



## Granny square

DisFamily6 said:


> Really, the DAS is being tracked within the Disney parks computer systems?  I haven't seen this info in any of the info threads.  I've watched a number of Youtube videos this morning and it looked like the CM was taking a picture with an ipad, typing in the name and other info and printing out the DAS, but it looked like a separate little printer it wasn't near the regular computers they use for park tickets and such.  Also, can't someone just say they lost their DAS?  Just curious how they are going to police this since the whole point of this new system is to cut down on the abuse.


  I'm sure the cheaters will find a way. However I know one of the cms said it is input when dealing with the rest of the info and picture. Hope that eases your concerns.


----------



## piratenightmares

tlovesdis said:


> Maybe the ECV can't fit in the elevator?  I've been using one for years and have always gone through the exit.  So maybe wheelchairs go through the elevator????  Not sure!




Oh yeah. Maybe. I haven't used an ECV. That's probably what it is. At the top of that elevator the space is rather limited. Hadn't thought of that. I can imagine entering through the gift shop area would be a little busy.


----------



## piratenightmares

Minuet888 said:


> They can fit in the elevator.
> My mother had an ECV and they were the older models that were quite a bit larger.
> (It was her own ECV and this was in the mid to late 90's)



Ah, thank you. It seems like a lot of entrances for one ride! 

The FP line is  usually good for us if we don't have my son in the chair at the time. I'm very glad with the DAS we can utilize other FP rides.

Also I think the idea of requiring ID for a person to have a DAS (if the child doesn't have ID then a parent's ID) is a completely reasonable thing to do (and think they should do it if they aren't already). To get into our local ZOO with an AP we have to show our ID and they scan it. This is so the pass won't be used multiple times in one day (my zoo pass is for a family of 8). 

I would be more than happy to give DL my ID and information if it would assist my son in having a more pleasant experience. And I would hope they are checking to see if people are attempting to obtain more than one pass. 

I have to fill out all sorts of paperwork for him constantly. This would be no different. I would be happy to do it and if it took an extra 30 minutes so be it.


----------



## cmwade77

Aladora said:


> Huh, learn something new every day!



Yeah, I didn't know either until my mom took her electric chair. That turned out to be a complicated mess, my sister and I needed the elevator, as we couldn't walk up the ramp, not even the exit ramp (down is ok, gravity is working with us) and my mom had to use the exit. They worked it out in the end, but I did have to get a lead involved.


----------



## cmwade77

piratenightmares said:


> That's weird. We never had to do that before. We just went in through the elevator to the left of the main entrance. Never had to go in through the exit. We've gone through the elevator with my son's wheelchair and also without one using the GAC.


Wheelchair yes, ECV and even power chairs, no. It has to do with how much weight the plywood floor between the door and the cabin can hold. In other words, it's a safety issue and it's up to the CM to determine which path is the correct one for the type of device you have.


----------



## cmwade77

DisFamily6 said:


> This may seem like a stupid question, but what would stop someone from Magic Kingdom to Hollywood Studios and getting another DAS card?


It appears that they scan your ticket when you get the card, I would guess that the parks talk to each other to make sure you aren't doing that.


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## luv2sleep

Here at CA.

-Was told that DAS return times can be given at one park for another. 

-The kiosks inside CA are: 

1 on Buena Vista street near the carthay circle red car trolley stop

1 in carsland near radiator springs racers

2 in paradise pier, one near little mermaid ride and not near CA screamin

Btw, they are listed on the back if the sheet with the DL kiosk list. Sorry! Had no idea. 

-Returns to the ride can be anytime after the RT even hours later.


----------



## cmwade77

luv2sleep said:


> Here at CA.
> 
> -Was told that DAS return times can be given at one park for another.
> 
> -The kiosks inside CA are:
> 
> 1 on Buena Vista street near the carthay circle red car trolley stop
> 
> 1 in carsland near radiator springs racers
> 
> 2 in paradise pier, one near little mermaid ride and not near CA screamin
> 
> Btw, they are listed on the back if the sheet with the DL kiosk list. Sorry! Had no idea.
> 
> -Returns to the ride can be anytime after the RT even hours later.



With how easy park hopping is, it is good to know that you can get one on your way out of one park and into the other.


----------



## SueM in MN

KPeveler said:


> If I had to guess, I would say that you get one wait time, period.  The idea is that you are waiting in line, just in a safe place.  They do not tell you what you must do while that time is passing, allowing people to handle whatever their disability dictates as best, but you are "in line."
> 
> And I believe it would be the same in Florida - where it is definitely harder to park hop.
> 
> This is based on my guesses and the statements of some Disney people in the past, so I cannot promise this is true.  I would just think that if they do not allow two wait times in one park, since that would mean being "in line" twice, you would not be able to be "in line" in two parks.
> 
> I am interested to see how the "wheelchair return cards" worked out today, and in the future - the idea was to eliminate wheelchair queues, like happen at Space Mountain, but I would be surprised if that actually happened.  After all, they spaced out people with disabilities quite a bit at RSR and there was always a wheelchair line.


The question about whether or not a guest can have 2 active DAS Return Times was answered already.

Here - copied from post 1:
Only 1 (one) Return Time can be written on the DAS at a time, which puts the DAS holder into a virtual 'standby queue'.
- Just like a guest actually standing in a standby queue, the DAS holder can't be in multiple standby queues at the same time. 
- Just like a guest actually standing in a standby queue, the DAS holder can also get Fastpasses using the Fastpass System.

If you leave the park with an active DAS Return Time, you would need to get it cancelled before getting a new time at the next park - at least that is what it is now.


CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> UGH! This is exactly what I was hoping not to hear. ST is one of the rides I was thinking about. That doesn't make any sense as the RT is supposed to be geared toward the wait time, and some of the FP waits can be really long (ST, Soaring, etc.). Not sure why to have a RT at all if it's just a FP (on FP rides).


One of the things at all parks (Florida and California) had issues with was the number of guests with GACs coming into the Fastpass lines at unpredictable intervals and increasing the wait times.
One of the goals of the DAS was to spread guests out more ( along with some guests who previously got GACs would not get DAS).


----------



## Minuet888

Jperiod said:


> What is the kiosk like?  Is it independant where you just stick your card in or is it a CM hand-writing stuff like at RSR?
> 
> If they're sending the DAS to the FP line, are they taking that waiting into consideration as well?  As someone else said, Soarin' FP line is long!  If standby is 60, FP is 20, and 10 for walking back and forth, are they writing the DAS for 30 min?
> 
> And what are they doing about the rides with waits of 20 min or less?  My son can't go in the Peter Pan line because it's too tight and Casey Jr and Storybook because they're slow loaders.  He turns into a human bumper car in those lines.



This is a point I was making earlier that this DAS system a some times means you wit longer than the stand by line


----------



## cmwade77

Minuet888 said:


> This is a point I was making earlier that this DAS system a some times means you wit longer than the stand by line



Actually, they are supposed to account for the time that you should be waiting upon return, so say the wait is a 30 minute line and you would normally wait 10 minutes upon your return to the attraction, the time they would write would be 20 minutes from the time you asked for the return time.

Looking at the Kiosk locations and the attractions that will have return times for the DAS vs. return time cards, if you plan it right, you shouldn't have too much backtracking, you should be able to get a return time on your way to a particular attraction.

This system should fix the issues with the lines at Peter Pan, etc. as well, to where upon returning there shouldn't be more than a 5-10 minute wait.

Additionally, attractions that are under a 10 minute wait are simply supposed to allow you to go through the appropriate entrance without a return time.


----------



## BeveMom

I read elsewhere that one of the accommodations that might be considered is to allow for multiple ridings on something without having to have your card re-stamped and waiting in line again (presumably to handle the children who tend to get fixated, or have issues with transitions).  Can anyone comment on this?


----------



## piratenightmares

BeveMom said:


> I read elsewhere that one of the accommodations that might be considered is to allow for multiple ridings on something without having to have your card re-stamped and waiting in line again (presumably to handle the children who tend to get fixated, or have issues with transitions).  Can anyone comment on this?



I'm interested in this as well.


----------



## Aladora

BeveMom said:


> I read elsewhere that one of the accommodations that might be considered is to allow for multiple ridings on something without having to have your card re-stamped and waiting in line again (presumably to handle the children who tend to get fixated, or have issues with transitions).  Can anyone comment on this?



I can't comment on whether or not I feel this is a good thing but I can say that Disney has stated that issues like this will be considered and dealt with on a case by case basis.


----------



## cmwade77

BeveMom said:


> I read elsewhere that one of the accommodations that might be considered is to allow for multiple ridings on something without having to have your card re-stamped and waiting in line again (presumably to handle the children who tend to get fixated, or have issues with transitions).  Can anyone comment on this?


Disney does say in their FAQ that they will work individually with people to come up with solutions, so I think this is possible, but I would think that this would be handled on a case by case basis and would be a card that had some form of limitations, say for example the child will only do one or two particular rides, I would think the card would say that is is valid for those rides only. I am sure it would also have a picture on it, etc.


----------



## BeveMom

cmwade77 said:


> Disney does say in their FAQ that they will work individually with people to come up with solutions, so I think this is possible, but I would think that this would be handled on a case by case basis and would be a card that had some form of limitations, say for example the child will only do one or two particular rides, I would think the card would say that is is valid for those rides only. I am sure it would also have a picture on it, etc.



I was honestly just curious.  It's not something we would utilize, although I'm sure DS6 would be in heaven if he could ride the Teacups over and over... I'm not sure my digestive system would agree.  

This is all very interesting to me.  I actually felt guilty on our first trip to WDW this past summer that we kept getting to go ahead of people with our GAC and Stroller as wheelchair tag.  I guess I'll just be hopeful that this system works out the kinks so that it works for everyone, because it seems like it will work for us whenever we get to DL and DCA.


----------



## SueM in MN

cmwade77 said:


> Disney does say in their FAQ that they will work individually with people to come up with solutions, so I think this is possible, but I would think that this would be handled on a case by case basis and would be a card that had some form of limitations, say for example the child will only do one or two particular rides, I would think the card would say that is is valid for those rides only. I am sure it would also have a picture on it, etc.


As the others mentioned, it IS on a case by case basis and I don't think mention of exactly how it worked is important or wise.
Since it is on a case by case basis, whatever you read on the internet or in people's blogs is not necessarily how it will be handled in all circumstances or at all times. 
Disney HAS said it will be on an individual basis and is subject to change. 
There will also be limits - some individual person with autism may be fixated on riding a particular attraction 3 times to start their day before going on to something else, for example. Disney _may_ be able to help make that possible, but will not be giving free rein to people to keep riding whatever attraction they want as many times as they want.

They will be tracking DAS cards and also use of any other assistance they give.


----------



## montreid

Mouseplanet review by AVP: (can't link since I don't have enough posts)

Mentions that there's the Attraction Readmission Pass option that's available to be issued in these case-by-case issues were fixation would be hard to break.   Using that in conjunction with the QR code to track usage is a great feedback mechanism.  

This is great to see as when our son with autism wasn't able to understand and had a very difficult time deesaculating after Nemo subs.   He's much better now and able to understand that it's not his turn anymore and needing to wait in a separate area....but he's 12 now.  Without a quick reentry option to break a fixation, at age 8, he would be done after the second ride and back to the hotel.

I'm glad to see that Disney is continuing to work on this and fine tuning the cases that need to be done and separating the chaff from the wheat.


----------



## KPeveler

tlovesdis said:


> Maybe the ECV can't fit in the elevator?  I've been using one for years and have always gone through the exit.  So maybe wheelchairs go through the elevator????  Not sure!



Wheelchairs that can fit go through the elevator and into the chutes with all the other guests.  At the end, we roll across the front row and out the other side and down the ramp.

My wheelchair, at about 24 inches wide, can barely fit going across the front row.  ECVs and powerchairs, which are larger, cannot roll from the "entrance" side to the "exit" side of the ride vehicle.  Therefore the larger vehicles like ECVs start on the "exit" side.  Trust me - there is no way to get out the "entrance" side with any kind of wheelchair or scooter.  I can barely get in!  It is very tight, very very tight turns, narrow walkways.  ECVs simply would not fit over there!


----------



## KPeveler

Only time for short post - 

I went to DL yesterday and got a DAS card.  I had little problem getting the Return Times and using them.  Sometimes the CMs forget, so always remember to *get your old time crossed off*!  It is just easier for them to do it at the attraction.

The real issue was with the wheelchair return times - it was inconsistent throughout the park.  In some places I was told I was not allowed to wait in the wheelchair line, I had to get a return time.  Other places were allowing people to form a stand-by wheelchair queue OR get a card.  This is obviously a system they are working on, so all we can do is be patient while they are figuring it out.

There is no official list or warning about what has a wheelchair return ticket and what has a regular stand-by line.  I also spoke with two managers, and they acknowledged that the system is imperfect and they are working on the bugs in the system.

Some people reported to me that they waited like the wheelchair return time said, which is the standby time, and then ended up waiting again in the line of wheelchair users who ALSO got the Wheelchair Return Time and came back...  So that part of the system may not be working.

A manager also confirmed to me there is no set way YET to accommodate the needs of those who require the special wheelchair vehicles, as sometimes we can wait quite a bit longer after waiting in regular or wheelchair lines...  

The wheelchair return system is constantly changing, and I expect there to be yet another change by the time I get there tomorrow.

For wheelchair users going to Disney, this does NOT mean you will suddenly be unable to enjoy the park.  It just means that for the "big ones" (Space, Splash, Pirates, Mansion), you may be given a return time.  The idea behind it is to not only ensure everyone waits their turn, thereby stopping people from thinking a wheelchair will let them "cut lines", but also to spread out wheelchair users returns, and prevent lines from forming.

I admit, this was not really working yet when I was there.  But it was also Day 2 - so things will get better.

I also cannot post about the placement of the kiosks, as managers said they are trying different spots, so it may change entirely.  For example, one person told me that they were told the kiosk in DCA was next to Ariel - it was moved to Toy Story Mania...  so things are in flux.

Managers ARE out, and happy to hear feedback, but be ready for things to not be perfect right away.  But if you are patient and polite with the CMs, they seemed very willing to make everything work.


----------



## piratenightmares

SueM in MN said:


> As the others mentioned, it IS on a case by case basis and I don't think mention of exactly how it worked is important or wise.
> Since it is on a case by case basis, whatever you read on the internet or in people's blogs is not necessarily how it will be handled in all circumstances or at all times.
> Disney HAS said it will be on an individual basis and is subject to change.
> There will also be limits - some individual person with autism may be fixated on riding a particular attraction 3 times to start their day before going on to something else, for example. Disney _may_ be able to help make that possible, but will not be giving free rein to people to keep riding whatever attraction they want as many times as they want.
> 
> They will be tracking DAS cards and also use of any other assistance they give.



I think it can be important because it would be helpful to people who are planning a trip with kids like this who have to explain in advance how things are going to be different. Even then the kid/s might not handle it well. My son does much better if he is told what's going to happen and we walk through it, pretending we are doing the action. My son doesn't need to ride the same thing all day but certain rides he does the 'AGAIN AGAIN' thing. It is wise to know what other people are experiencing so we can prepare and know what some of the possibilities are. I do not expect all circumstances would be the same. I would never expect free rein on anything. In fact I would be ok without any accommodations at all.  I would like to know, however, what can be done if necessary. 

I called guest services to ask them all my DAC questions yesterday and they weren't able to give me much information due to the case by case basis. It would just be easier to know what his case will allow prior to arriving so we can all be more prepared to help him understand what we're doing. I hoped they could help me by giving me some information. I guess I will have to wait until we arrive.


----------



## IndianaPrincess

KPeveler said:


> Only time for short post -
> 
> I went to DL yesterday and got a DAS card.  I had little problem getting the Return Times and using them.  Sometimes the CMs forget, so always remember to *get your old time crossed off*!  It is just easier for them to do it at the attraction.
> 
> The real issue was with the wheelchair return times - it was inconsistent throughout the park.  In some places I was told I was not allowed to wait in the wheelchair line, I had to get a return time.  Other places were allowing people to form a stand-by wheelchair queue OR get a card.  This is obviously a system they are working on, so all we can do is be patient while they are figuring it out.
> 
> There is no official list or warning about what has a wheelchair return ticket and what has a regular stand-by line.  I also spoke with two managers, and they acknowledged that the system is imperfect and they are working on the bugs in the system.
> 
> Some people reported to me that they waited like the wheelchair return time said, which is the standby time, and then ended up waiting again in the line of wheelchair users who ALSO got the Wheelchair Return Time and came back...  So that part of the system may not be working.
> 
> A manager also confirmed to me there is no set way YET to accommodate the needs of those who require the special wheelchair vehicles, as sometimes we can wait quite a bit longer after waiting in regular or wheelchair lines...
> 
> The wheelchair return system is constantly changing, and I expect there to be yet another change by the time I get there tomorrow.
> 
> For wheelchair users going to Disney, this does NOT mean you will suddenly be unable to enjoy the park.  It just means that for the "big ones" (Space, Splash, Pirates, Mansion), you may be given a return time.  The idea behind it is to not only ensure everyone waits their turn, thereby stopping people from thinking a wheelchair will let them "cut lines", but also to spread out wheelchair users returns, and prevent lines from forming.
> 
> I admit, this was not really working yet when I was there.  But it was also Day 2 - so things will get better.
> 
> I also cannot post about the placement of the kiosks, as managers said they are trying different spots, so it may change entirely.  For example, one person told me that they were told the kiosk in DCA was next to Ariel - it was moved to Toy Story Mania...  so things are in flux.
> 
> Managers ARE out, and happy to hear feedback, but be ready for things to not be perfect right away.  But if you are patient and polite with the CMs, they seemed very willing to make everything work.



A quick question for when you have time... Were they keeping two lines at the alternate entrance? Like one for those in wheel chairs and one for those with DAS cards (with or without wheelchairs)?


----------



## becd

piratenightmares said:


> I called guest services to ask them all my DAC questions yesterday and they weren't able to give me much information due to the case by case basis. It would just be easier to know what his case will allow prior to arriving so we can all be more prepared to help him understand what we're doing. I hoped they could help me by giving me some information. I guess I will have to wait until we arrive.



Piratenightmares:  would you mind posting afterwards with a report?  I have a son with similar issues and am arriving Thanksgiving weekend.  I just need to know in advance what information or "evidence" I need to provide because I will be thousands of miles from home and unable to get in touch with any of the doctors because of the holiday weekend situation.  I am nervous about walkign into a new situation that is just getting off of the ground, but as always with Disney I have my Pollyanna glasses on and am optimistic.


----------



## tlovesdis

becd said:


> Piratenightmares:  would you mind posting afterwards with a report?  I have a son with similar issues and am arriving Thanksgiving weekend.  I just need to know in advance what information or "evidence" I need to provide because I will be thousands of miles from home and unable to get in touch with any of the doctors because of the holiday weekend situation.  I am nervous about walkign into a new situation that is just getting off of the ground, but as always with Disney I have my Pollyanna glasses on and am optimistic.



Disney cannot ask for any type of proof, meaning they cannot ask for documentation etc...  All they can do is ask you what kind of accommodation you need, they can never ask what the disability is.  So you just need to be prepared to tell them what you would need in order to make rides accessible for you.


----------



## SueM in MN

tlovesdis said:


> Disney cannot ask for any type of proof, meaning they cannot ask for documentation etc...  All they can do is ask you what kind of accommodation you need, they can never ask what the disability is.  So you just need to be prepared to tell them what you would need in order to make rides accessible for you.


Yes - what tlovesdis said


----------



## piratenightmares

becd said:


> Piratenightmares:  would you mind posting afterwards with a report?  I have a son with similar issues and am arriving Thanksgiving weekend.  I just need to know in advance what information or "evidence" I need to provide because I will be thousands of miles from home and unable to get in touch with any of the doctors because of the holiday weekend situation.  I am nervous about walkign into a new situation that is just getting off of the ground, but as always with Disney I have my Pollyanna glasses on and am optimistic.



You need no evidence, simply your explanation of what your son needs. I wouldn't be nervous. I'm sure they will assist you the best way they can when you arrive. I would write a list in advance of the issues you feel you need to explain to them when you get your DAS. They don't need a ton of information. Just give them the basic accommodations you think would best assist him. I think Pollyanna glasses are good. I am sure they will do their best to provide fair assistance to those who require it.

I won't be there until the first week of December so looks like you'll be there before me. I'm sure your trip will be fabulous! I would prepare your son as if you were going to have zero accommodations. That's what I've decided to do. We used to do DL without any (other than wheelchair entrances on occasion) and only used GAC one year for the many years we've gone. 

Is your son verbal, non verbal, does he have interests in things? I have some tips I could give you about ways I've handled it with my son (without any accommodation). You may have already thought of them but I'd be happy to share.


----------



## doberlady

I heard they already started in WDW

Does anyone know if this is true???

I thought they were only rolling this out in DL for now?


----------



## SueM in MN

doberlady said:


> I heard they already started in WDW
> 
> Does anyone know if this is true???
> 
> I thought they were only rolling this out in DL for now?



It was both California and Florida on October 9, 2013.

This is the DL thread. Here is a link to the WDW thread:
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=3178976


----------



## cmwade77

We went last night and will probably be going again today. 

For all of those that are concerned that the system won't work for them, please try it before complaining. Yes, there is some waiting. But, if you plan it right, wait times can be minimized. 

Here is some helpful information to do so:
Always make sure you have am active return time on your DAS, if you have one. 

Always have a FP

If at Disneyland Park, also always try to have a Return Time card for an attraction that doesn't have a mainstream queue. 

These suggestions were given by one of the people at Disneyland who helped design the new system when they called mev and I wasn't even asking how to reduce wait times, I was asking about the shows, such as WOC and she mentioned these tips.

In my experience by following these tips, you will wait for the first attraction;  however, if planned properly you will have little to no waits for other attractions, other than the short lines when you return. Although we haven't done Pirates, Space, Splash, etc. That normally have the longer assistance lines yet. 

By the way for WOC, you must still have a FP and you initially need to go to the section that your FP is in. If you do not have a mobility device, but do need the benches, you will need a DAS, they will NOT let you use them without one, even though guest Relations says they will. I saw many people who would need the bench turned away because they didn't have one, they did also turn away a person with a cane as well and there was still plenty of room. Now it is possible guest Relations has a card that would work just at the shows, I don't know, but if this is your primary concern, make sure guest Relations gives you something that would work at the shows. Also at Aladdin, you will need a DAS, mobility device (not including canes or walkers, they have to wait in the regular line and use the stairs, unless they have a DAS or something similar) to use a bench to wait or to avoid the stairs still.  When you get to your section at WOC, they are supposed to ask if you want the lower bench seating or the one at the back of the seating. Of course they won't ask you if one of the seating areas is full, but you must go to your section first, even if you want the one in the back. They have implemented this change you ensure that every guest gets a choice until one of the sections is full to comply with current ADA guidelines for theaters. This is a recent change and there was a little confusion when we asked where to go at first, but this was the answer I got when I asked why there was such confusion.

Please keep in mind the system is still new and it's being tweaked on a constant basis, for example if you have an active return time for an attraction that is near a kiosk and you want to go on an attraction with at least an hour wait afterwards. If it is your time to go on the attraction, you can explain that you are about to ride, but that you want a Return Time for another attraction that has an hour or longer wait and they will add it before you ride. The example that wad provided was, let's say you have a Return Time for toy story for noon and the next ride you want to go on is Haunted Mansion.  It is now noon and you are about to go on TS, you could go to the kiosk and they would say, but you already have a time on the card and you would say yes, but I next want to go on HM, which I hear has an hour wait, they would look it up and add the return time before you go on TS. I was surprised when we were told this, as this is different than what we have heard before, but this was the current policy as of yesterday. Again this is subject to change, but it gives an idea of how things are being tweaked as this rolls out. 

Also, you can get the DAS card at any guest Relations location or kiosk, but keep in mind that the printers are only located in guest Relations inside the parks at the moment, so you will be waiting for a runner to go up there and pick up your card. They are working on getting printers at all of the kiosks though. 

As for waits at the kiosks, I did not see anyone waiting, unless they were getting a new card and they were waiting for it to be picked up. 

I had absolutely no wait to get mine, as I went to the kiosk right inside the gate. It only took about a minute for the runner to pick up my card, as we were so close to Guest Relations. They also offered to put the first wait time on it right then and there. 

So overall things seem to go fairly smoothly.


----------



## cmwade77

doberlady said:
			
		

> I heard they already started in WDW
> 
> Does anyone know if this is true???
> 
> I thought they were only rolling this out in DL for now?



There is a WDW thread as well, they rolled this out on both coasts on the same date.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

I just wanted to post my initial impressions after day 1 of 4 at DL and DCA yesterday with DS16 special needs. Initially when I heard about the program, I was really nervous and then worried about being there on one of the first days when all the "bugs" were being worked out. Well, we didn't have one bug and were left extremely impressed. There was a CM at GS in DCA in the morning when we picked up out pass vetting everyone who went in. We had no problem getting a pass, and I spoke at length with the CMs in there about the changes, etc. They were wonderful with my son, asked him questions about rides he liked, etc. and gave us a little magic. DS is fairly obviously special, especially when he starts talking, and I really felt like they went out of the way to assure very anxious DS that the new system would work well for him. It did. The DAS RP coupled with smaller (no wait) rides, and FP made our day even more enjoyable, mostly because of issues we've had with abuse/so many people using the previous GAC. It did require a little more planning, but really in the spirit of trying to ensure this service is for people who *really* need it, I think it's a huge step in the right direction. I also found the placement of the kiosks well thought out (central and near exits of rides where you would typically be using the pass). I'll let you know if my impressions change in the next couple of days.


----------



## HappiestHaunt

IndianaPrincess said:


> A quick question for when you have time... Were they keeping two lines at the alternate entrance? Like one for those in wheel chairs and one for those with DAS cards (with or without wheelchairs)?



I am curious about this as well.  So after waiting your time with your DAS, are you still getting in line with wheelchairs sent around to the alternative line?


----------



## Jperiod

Just got here tonight and kinda discouraged so far. They're only taking off 10 min, but still send you through fastpass if able-bodied. So you do end up waiting longer than standby, but its like having a fast pass machine for any ride. That seems fine in theory, but then we spent 10 min deciding which ride to go on, during which DS changed his mind 3 times! Then we got to the ride only to find out DD was a hair too short and DS didn't want to ride that with just one parent. So we made a plan to go on little mermaid and let DS go on a big ride of his pick. Found the kiosk and then had to wait AGAIN for goofy sky school even though we had already waited for soaring and couldn't go on.

This WILL take a lot more planning and flexibility, which DS really isn't good at and I'm not thrilled about making our vacation a learning experience either. The kid does 25  hours of therapy a week, and we all looked forward to the breaks we had at Disneyland.


----------



## cmwade77

Jperiod said:
			
		

> Just got here tonight and kinda discouraged so far. They're only taking off 10 min, but still send you through fastpass if able-bodied. So you do end up waiting longer than standby, but its like having a fast pass machine for any ride. That seems fine in theory, but then we spent 10 min deciding which ride to go on, during which DS changed his mind 3 times! Then we got to the ride only to find out DD was a hair too short and DS didn't want to ride that with just one parent. So we made a plan to go on little mermaid and let DS go on a big ride of his pick. Found the kiosk and then had to wait AGAIN for goofy sky school even though we had already waited for soaring and couldn't go on.
> 
> This WILL take a lot more planning and flexibility, which DS really isn't good at and I'm not thrilled about making our vacation a learning experience either. The kid does 25  hours of therapy a week, and we all looked forward to the breaks we had at Disneyland.


When I picked up my pass, they did tell me that if I changed my mind about riding an attraction that I would have to wait again, but if unable to ride due to the ride breaking down, height restriction, etc. That the attraction should take care of it, if not you should first ask for a lead and then if they still don't to explain at the kiosk that you wanted to all ride together. Since you had no way to check your entire party for the height  requirement at the kiosk when choosing the ride, it isn't fair to make you wait again. 

I think the solution is to allow the kiosks to do the height checks and issue wristbands that say which attractions that the child can do and those wristbands will override any height checks at the individual attractions. 

But ultimately, make sure that you send your feedback to Disney. Make sure you send it via email to the email address on the FAQ and the Disneyland website. In addition be sure to send it via the U.S. Postal system as well. Sending to all three will emphasize how important this is. In addition,  the next time you go to the parks, be sure to ask for a manager at Guest Relations or one of the kiosks and explain what happened and how you felt it was unfair. 

I personally think this policy of starting the wait time over is unfair. If I were waiting in a physical line and got to the end of the line and couldn't ride, they would generally give me a FP to come back or go on another ride. and I do intend on commenting on that in my feedback.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

cmwade77 said:


> I personally think this policy of starting the wait time over is unfair. If I were waiting in a physical line and got to the end of the line and couldn't ride, they would generally give me a FP to come back or go on another ride. and I do intend on commenting on that in my feedback.



I agree. On day 2 for us yesterday this became much more of a big deal as the FP lines for Soaring and Radiator Springs were *really* long. DS was having a horrible time, and then to top it off when we got to the loading area of Radiator Springs right at the top, the ride broke down. After quite a bit of explaining, I did manage to get us anytime return passes for RS, but we will have to hope the FP line isn't long again. I definitely think the FP time needs to be factored in.


----------



## Jperiod

One thing I didn't have time to mention last night, as we were hemming and hawing at the kiosk trying to decide a ride DS would be in the mood to go on in (current wait time) minutes, the cast member, Chelle, saw us struggling and gave us an immediate FP for RSR to use right after our RT "to get the ball rolling." She said it gets easier after the first few and told us to collect fastpasses in the morning to use with the RT. Most of tthe FP had already been given out last night. She also urged me to talk to a lead to give feedback and see if there was an individual accomodation they could give DS for some immediate FPs to help with his lack of planning/give choices, but I'd have to do that every day. So it was nice to hear what others mentioned on this thread, they do have the ability to customize the new system. I think we're gonna give this a go as is and if it's just not working out, I'll talk to a lead.

I also got a stroller as a wheelchair tag again and that was kinda confusing. We use it for sensory breaks and a barrier for shows and parades. The CM was trying to convince me I shouldn't get it, that there were better places to sit away from crowds? Not in our experience! Yes, the wheelchair areas can get crowded, but if DS can be in his stroller, he's fine in his little bubble, pulls down the shade, etc. It also helps with his low tone and tolerance for standing.  We haven't attempted WoC with the card or tag before, just tried the firehydrant location years ago, but DS couldn't see.  Last night I saw benches in the back that seemed to be for wheelchairs? How would that work and how's the visibility for those in wheelchairs/strollers?


----------



## cmwade77

Jperiod said:
			
		

> One thing I didn't have time to mention last night, as we were hemming and hawing at the kiosk trying to decide a ride DS would be in the mood to go on in (current wait time) minutes, the cast member, Chelle, saw us struggling and gave us an immediate FP for RSR to use right after our RT "to get the ball rolling." She said it gets easier after the first few and told us to collect fastpasses in the morning to use with the RT. Most of tthe FP had already been given out last night. She also urged me to talk to a lead to give feedback and see if there was an individual accomodation they could give DS for some immediate FPs to help with his lack of planning/give choices, but I'd have to do that every day. So it was nice to hear what others mentioned on this thread, they do have the ability to customize the new system. I think we're gonna give this a go as is and if it's just not working out, I'll talk to a lead.
> 
> I also got a stroller as a wheelchair tag again and that was kinda confusing. We use it for sensory breaks and a barrier for shows and parades. The CM was trying to convince me I shouldn't get it, that there were better places to sit away from crowds? Not in our experience! Yes, the wheelchair areas can get crowded, but if DS can be in his stroller, he's fine in his little bubble, pulls down the shade, etc. It also helps with his low tone and tolerance for standing.  We haven't attempted WoC with the card or tag before, just tried the firehydrant location years ago, but DS couldn't see.  Last night I saw benches in the back that seemed to be for wheelchairs? How would that work and how's the visibility for those in wheelchairs/strollers?


I think there needs to be a few tweaks, such as allowing for when you can't ride an attraction after waiting the full time without starting your wait over again. They would generally offer a FP to any other guest in such a circumstance after they waited in the regular queue. Now I am not saying they should offer a FP, but how about subtracting the time that you have already waited from the wait time? 

And they need to put something to measure Heights at the kiosks, so you can choose accordingly. 

The visibility in the back of WOC is ok. there are benches more towards the front as well. No matter which one you choose, be sure to key the CM know that you need fewer people around you, they are usually more than accommodating.
If in a stroller or wheelchair, make sure that the person in it is by the railing.


----------



## HappiestHaunt

I did see it report posted elsewhere that someone had a return time for POTC and when they returned with their DAS they found the HAC line was still an additional 40 minute wait between wheelchair/ECV users and DAS returners.  They ended up not riding it due to the issue.  She did said she liked the new program, but I could see how that would be problematic.  The HAC line has always been a long line at that particular ride, but now you have the wait time on top of that. I think they may have to do some adjusting at rides like that one and IASW.  Otherwise you are asking a person who needs the accommodation to wait elsewhere and then essentially wait again for the same time period (or longer) to ride. So it would seem the DAS users could potential have a double wait for some rides.


----------



## disney david

cmwade77 said:


> I think there needs to be a few tweaks, such as allowing for when you can't ride an attraction after waiting the full time without starting your wait over again. They would generally offer a FP to any other guest in such a circumstance after they waited in the regular queue. Now I am not saying they should offer a FP, but how about subtracting the time that you have already waited from the wait time?
> 
> And they need to put something to measure Heights at the kiosks, so you can choose accordingly.
> 
> The visibility in the back of WOC is ok. there are benches more towards the front as well. No matter which one you choose, be sure to key the CM know that you need fewer people around you, they are usually more than accommodating.
> If in a stroller or wheelchair, make sure that the person in it is by the railing.



Do you mean if the ride breaks down and your in the que they give fast pass to you. I know sometimes if your on the ride they give them to you.


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## disney david

It hard to factor in fast pass like and alternate line because it can be 40 when you get rerun time the. To down to 5 less then 10 min later it not like stand by time where the line will stay long for awhile.


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## HappiestHaunt

I also saw this elsewhere, which will help with DAS users and first rides:

"Tip for DAS users. City Hall/Chamber can issue a wait time. So if you are picking up your DAS, get a wait time for your first ride while you are there." 

That is a nice service to offer to allow someone to head to their first ride without an additional trip to a kiosk to begin their day.


----------



## cmwade77

HappiestHaunt said:
			
		

> I did see it report posted elsewhere that someone had a return time for POTC and when they returned with their DAS they found the HAC line was still an additional 40 minute wait between wheelchair/ECV users and DAS returners.  They ended up not riding it due to the issue.  She did said she liked the new program, but I could see how that would be problematic.  The HAC line has always been a long line at that particular ride, but now you have the wait time on top of that. I think they may have to do some adjusting at rides like that one and IASW.  Otherwise you are asking a person who needs the accommodation to wait elsewhere and then essentially wait again for the same time period (or longer) to ride. So it would seem the DAS users could potential have a double wait for some rides.



At these kinds of attractions, if you have a Return Time, you are supposed to be taken to the front of the accessible line, at least according to the phone call that I had with the Disney executive when they called me.


----------



## SueM in MN

HappiestHaunt said:


> I also saw this elsewhere, which will help with DAS users and first rides:
> 
> "Tip for DAS users. City Hall/Chamber can issue a wait time. So if you are picking up your DAS, get a wait time for your first ride while you are there."
> 
> That is a nice service to offer to allow someone to head to their first ride without an additional trip to a kiosk to begin their day.


That may or may not happen on other days.
There are some things they were doing in the first roll out days to help people cope during the roll out period and help things move along better and kind of give a little pixie dust for waits in Guest Relations while they are learning.

Those things may not be available at all times or may not be available after the process is moving more efficiently.


----------



## cmwade77

SueM in MN said:
			
		

> That may or may not happen on other days.
> There are some things they were doing in the first roll out days to help people cope during the roll out period and help things move along better and kind of give a little pixie dust for waits in Guest Relations while they are learning.
> 
> Those things may not be available at all times or may not be available after the process is moving more efficiently.



You can also get the card at any kiosk, just be aware that you will have to wait for a CM to go and get your pass from Guest Relations until all of the kiosks have their own printers. They of course can provide your first wait til k me there, as it is a kiosk.

But all of the CMs did say that they are supposed to have printers at all of the kiosks soon.


----------



## cmwade77

disney david said:
			
		

> Do you mean if the ride breaks down and your in the que they give fast pass to you. I know sometimes if your on the ride they give them to you.



I have had several situations where I get to the front of the line and have to leave for my own reasons, such as not being physically up to riding when I thought I would be, etc.

As long as the line wasn't under 20 minutes, they have always offered a FP for something else when I explain the situation. But you have to explain to a CM, they won't be able to do anything to help if you just turn to leave. 

I have seen many others do this and as long as they are nice about it, I have never seen any reasonable request refused. Say you were waiting for RSR and asked for a FP, they would probably make it for any attraction.  But if you were in a 30 minute line, they probably wouldn't give you one for RSR with a two hour line. 

Since the return times are the equivalent of waiting in the entire line, they should be willing to work with you. I understand that simply giving a blanket FP would lead to abuse and as pointed out that's probably not what would be done for any other guest. Since they know how long you have waited, the easiest thing to do is subtract that time from your next return time.


----------



## Rowanonfire

MODERATOR NOTE: WDW question - moved to WDW thread


----------



## piratenightmares

SueM in MN said:


> That may or may not happen on other days.
> There are some things they were doing in the first roll out days to help people cope during the roll out period and help things move along better and kind of give a little pixie dust for waits in Guest Relations while they are learning.
> 
> Those things may not be available at all times or may not be available after the process is moving more efficiently.



I understand this is going to be something that will change a little as they find out what works and what doesn't. What is the best way to deal with these changes? It feels like what I might get in assistance today could change tomorrow (and that's ok. I'd just like to know more.). When I have called guest services about how the DAS is working they have only given me the information I've already read on the website. They are very non specific. I understand that, too, but I feel like it would be best for everyone (including CM's who are working with this in the parks) to know more information in advance. I'm sure the CM's have good instructions. I just wish I knew what to expect (a little) because even after reading all of this stuff it's not clear to me. 

I said in a previous post I would be preparing my son mentally with the assumption we may not get any accommodations. I know he will get some, and it will be a bonus when he does. 

I realize I'm not going to understand how this is going to work for us until we try it out. Can't WAIT til December!


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## SueM in MN

I realize that people want specific answers on how things will be done for planning purposes.

But, I think we all need to be prepared that there will be some questions where the answer is not "yes" or "no" or "always" or "never".

There are some where the answer is going to stay "maybe" and "it depends".


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## HappiestHaunt

More on that second wait.  It seems they did have a DAS return time at POTC but when they returned they were directed to the line.  They did show the CM their DAS but they said they were still directed to wait in the line regardless. She does mention that is was very busy and the CM offered a pass to return later, but for her daughters issues they were not able to return so they declined the pass. So perhaps with rides like POTC, that historically have always had a long accessible line, there may end up being a double wait for DAS users.


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## cmwade77

HappiestHaunt said:
			
		

> More on that second wait.  It seems they did have a DAS return time at POTC but when they returned they were directed to the line.  They did show the CM their DAS but they said they were still directed to wait in the line regardless. She does mention that is was very busy and the CM offered a pass to return later, but for her daughters issues they were not able to return so they declined the pass. So perhaps with rides like POTC, that historically have always had a long accessible line, there may end up being a double wait for DAS users.



I don't think that is in the spirit of equal access. I expect equal to be equal, if I am waiting an equal amount of time to everyone else, I expect to get on the ride with a minimal wait when I return. I am Ok with a slightly longer wait in exchange for not waiting in the traditional queues. But I will not accept double+the normal wait. That is not equal either.


----------



## Plutos Mommy

Just returned from DL/DCA and here is my experience which wasn't that extensive due to large crowds and the fact my DD24 has been ill so her stamina was way down, so we didn't do the parks the way we usually do. We arrived for the Halloween party Fri night and went to see about getting a DAS for rides that have stairs as I have issues with my knees and climbing the ramp to Space Mountain triggers my asthma every time (only place in either parks this happens).

I was told that I didn't need a DAS. I was to wait in the standby lines and tell a CM when we got to the front that I couldn't do stairs, and also to talk with a CM at the start of Space and tell them my issue. I was given park maps with each ride that has stairs circled. I figured I will go with the flow and see how this works for me. Due to my daughter not feeling well we spent a very low key day Saturday just people watching and shopping. It was really crowded so the few rides we did manage ride didn't have stairs, so I didn't really get a chance to see how avoiding stairs would work for me.

We did meet up with one of my daughter's friends who had requested a DAS and was given the same instructions as me (different medical issue)...wait in line and speak to a CM at the front of the line. They got to the front of RSR and she was told that to be able to load in one of the disabled cars (to avoid the stairs) she had to have a DAS...so it appears that all the CM's are not on the same page in regards to how the stair issue needs to be handled.

This was only day 3 of the new system, so I am sure there are some bugs that will need to be worked out. I just wanted to share my limited experience as I have seen others post about having trouble with stairs.


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## cmwade77

I had a similar issue with WOC, guest Relations said you wouldn't need a pass to use the benches, but unless you had a wheelchair or ECV, you needed to have a DAS, I even saw people with canes and walkers turned away. Luckily I also had one, but I was curious to see what would happen if I didn't and the blunt answer was that I would be out of luck.

So either the guest Relations CMs have not been properly trained or the ones at the attractions haven't been.


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## SueM in MN

Plutos Mommy said:


> Just returned from DL/DCA and here is my experience which wasn't that extensive due to large crowds and the fact my DD24 has been ill so her stamina was way down, so we didn't do the parks the way we usually do. We arrived for the Halloween party Fri night and went to see about getting a DAS for rides that have stairs as I have issues with my knees and climbing the ramp to Space Mountain triggers my asthma every time (only place in either parks this happens).
> 
> I was told that I didn't need a DAS. I was to wait in the standby lines and tell a CM when we got to the front that I couldn't do stairs, and also to talk with a CM at the start of Space and tell them my issue. *I was given park maps with each ride that has stairs circled. *I figured I will go with the flow and see how this works for me. Due to my daughter not feeling well we spent a very low key day Saturday just people watching and shopping. It was really crowded so the few rides we did manage ride didn't have stairs, so I didn't really get a chance to see how avoiding stairs would work for me.
> 
> We did meet up with one of my daughter's friends who had requested a DAS and was given the same instructions as me (different medical issue)...wait in line and speak to a CM at the front of the line. They got to the front of RSR and she was told that to be able to load in one of the disabled cars (to avoid the stairs) she had to have a DAS...so it appears that all the CM's are not on the same page in regards to how the stair issue needs to be handled.
> 
> *This was only day 3 of the new system, so I am sure there are some bugs that will need to be worked out. I just wanted to share my limited experience as I have seen others post about having trouble with stairs.*


Do you still have the map and are you willing to post what attractions they circled as having stairs?

I think your last bit is very important to keep in mind.
This is a really big change, for guests and for CMs. There are going to be bugs for a while and people who are not all on the same page. 
Because of the number of people involved and the complexity, it is going to take a while.


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## Plutos Mommy

It appears that I no longer have them but think I can closely recreate the list as many of them were rides I used to use my GAC on. The Guest Relations CM went through both maps and circled them for me.

Disneyland

Main Street Rail Road
Big Thunder Mountain
Splash Mountain
Enchanted Tiki Room
Indiana Jones
Jungle Cruise (high peak times)
Tarzan's Treehouse
Sleeping Beauty Castle
Autopia
Finding Nemo
Space Mountain

California Adventure

Aladdin
Radiator Springs Racers
California Screamin'
Toy Story Midway Mania
Grizzly River Run

I probably missed a missed a few, hopefully someone else can help fill in the blanks.


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## cmwade77

I am familiar with the attractions that have stairs, here is a detailed list:
Main Street train station had no way to avoid stairs

Main Street transportation has steps up into the vehicles.

Great moments with Mr.  Lincoln has steps, enter through the doors that wheelchairs and ECVs ate directed to in order to avoid steps and steep slopes. 

Tiki room has stairs that can be avoided by asking for the lift. 

Jungle cruise has stairs on busy days

Indiana Jones has stairs in both the queue and the exit. 

Tarzan's tree house has an accessible path to the activity area near Pirates.

Pirates does not have stairs, but has steep ramps in the normal queue

New Orleans square train station has stairs, there is a ramp near Haunted Mansion

Splash Mountain has stairs in the traditional and FP queues.

Tom Sawyers Island had since stairs and steps, accessible paths are available. 

Sailing ship Columbia had stairs that cannot be avoided for boarding. 

Big Thunder had stairs in the queue prior to the rehab, Rumor has it that these stairs may be removed from the queue during the rehab or may get an elevator. 

Casey Jr has some steps up to it, they can be avoided by using the accessible route or asking the CM working there. 

Sleeping Beauty Castle walk through has stairs, an alternate viewing experience is available. 

There is a step up for the Carousel, a ramp is available. 

Peter Pan has a couple of minor steps in the regular queue, or at least it used to. 

Small word has stairs at the exit

Fantasyland theater has stairs that can be avoided by asking for the accessible path. 
Autopia has stairs that can be avoided by asking for the lift. 

Monorail has a very steep ramp that they call am accessible ramp; however, it does not meet the requirements sure to slope and length. There is an elevator available that they don't like to let you use, but will if you are unable to use the ramp. 

Finding Nemo inside the subs, an alternative experience is available. 

Innoventions had a steep ramp that they don't even pretend is accessible. There is an accessible route available. There are also stairs inside, an elevator is available. 

Space Mountain has stairs at the exit. 

Star Tours has a steep ramp in the normal queues. 

At DCA:
Aladdin has stairs, you must have an ECV, wheel chair or DAS to avoid. 

Tower of Terror has stairs after the loading room on the left. 

Radiator Springs racers has stairs at the exit

California Screamin has stairs in the queue and at the exit. 

Silly Symphony Swings has stairs, an elevator is available

Golden zephyr has stairs, an elevator is available. 

Goofy's Sky School has stairs at the exit

World of color has steps, accessible paths are available

Grizzly River run has stairs at the exit.  Alternatives are available, just ask. 

There are steps in Redwood Creek challenge trail, there are accessible paths. 

Soarin' has a step exit ramp, alternatives may be available, depending on the CM.

Red car trolley has a step up, there is an alternate loading method available that can avoid this, it is intended for wheelchairs, but has handrails and can be used for those that can't handle the steps.


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## SueM in MN

cmwade77 said:


> When I picked up my pass, they did tell me that if I changed my mind about riding an attraction that I would have to wait again, but if unable to ride due to the ride breaking down, height restriction, etc. That the attraction should take care of it, if not you should first ask for a lead and then if they still don't to explain at the kiosk that you wanted to all ride together. Since you had no way to check your entire party for the height  requirement at the kiosk when choosing the ride, it isn't fair to make you wait again.
> 
> *I think the solution is to allow the kiosks to do the height checks and issue wristbands that say which attractions that the child can do and those wristbands will override any height checks at the individual attractions.
> *
> But ultimately, make sure that you send your feedback to Disney. Make sure you send it via email to the email address on the FAQ and the Disneyland website. In addition be sure to send it via the U.S. Postal system as well. Sending to all three will emphasize how important this is. In addition,  the next time you go to the parks, be sure to ask for a manager at Guest Relations or one of the kiosks and explain what happened and how you felt it was unfair.
> 
> I personally think this policy of starting the wait time over is unfair. If I were waiting in a physical line and got to the end of the line and couldn't ride, they would generally give me a FP to come back or go on another ride. and I do intend on commenting on that in my feedback.


I do t know about DL, but WDW did try having a central measuring point where they measured children and then issued a wrist band for height.
CMs on the Disboards posted that the parks stopped doing it because people were getting one child measured and getting a wrist band, then transferring it to a smaller child. 
Disney has information on their website, on their park apps, on park maps and at entrances to attractions that tell what the height requirements are. 

People need to check those things out and know what their child's height is.
All that information is readily available.
It's also important to know that children who look close to the height requirement will probably be checked twice - once when they enter the queue and once before boarding.


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## cmwade77

SueM in MN said:
			
		

> I do t know about DL, but WDW did try having a central measuring point where they measured children and then issued a wrist band for height.
> CMs on the Disboards posted that the parks stopped doing it because people were getting one child measured and getting a wrist band, then transferring it to a smaller child.
> Disney has information on their website, on their park apps, on park maps and at entrances to attractions that tell what the height requirements are.
> 
> People need to check those things out and know what their child's height is.
> All that information is readily available.
> It's also important to know that children who look close to the height requirement will probably be checked twice - once when they enter the queue and once before boarding.


I am not sure about at WDW, but the problem at Disneyland is that the height check sticks are a 1/2"-1" higher than the posted height requirements, due to people trying to cheat the system with thicker soles or stuffing shoes, so even if the child measures the height at home or a doctors office, they may not at the attraction. 

Perhaps they could  use hand stamps instead of wristbands. Or print special height cards with pictures on then for parties that have a DAS.

I'm honestly not sure, but they need something so people don't get a return time, then show up to an attraction and find out that a member of their pay doesn't meet the height requirement when they thought they would.


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## piratenightmares

cmwade77 said:


> I am not sure about at WDW, but the problem at Disneyland is that the height check sticks are a 1/2"-1" higher than the posted height requirements, due to people trying to cheat the system with thicker soles or stuffing shoes, so even if the child measures the height at home or a doctors office, they may not at the attraction.
> 
> Perhaps they could  use hand stamps instead of wristbands. Or print special height cards with pictures on then for parties that have a DAS.
> 
> I'm honestly not sure, but they need something so people don't get a return time, then show up to an attraction and find out that a member of their pay doesn't meet the height requirement when they thought they would.



When my son was about 1/4 of an inch above the height requirement he was allowed to ride Indiana Jones in the morning, turned away in the afternoon, and allowed to ride it again that evening. It's hard with some kids because they slouch or apparently change height at certain times of day (hehe). 

It would be helpful to have a standard checkpoint. You'd either be tall enough or not. Good plan. A hand stamp would work. OR state on the DAS how many are in the party and how many do / do not meet the height requirement. Yeah people could still 'cheat' there but it seems like some people will try to cheat any system to get their kids onto rides. Maybe a note on the DAS and also a hand stamp for kids who are measured tall enough. There are stamps that don't wash off for DAYS with regular hand washing. So that shouldn't be a problem. I plan large events in which we have used hand stamps and wristbands both. Wristbands are a hassle and cost a lot more than a hand stamp. But I do think having some way of doing this in advance for families with DAS would be wise.


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## englishrose47

I thought I would shar some info I got this morning . I called special needs and was put through to  the line that is set up to explain the new DAS. Many thingswere as have been posted  BUT I had only read tht you could have 1 DAS return time at a time, I was told that  and I use the example she gave 
, If I went to Peter Pan at 10 a  and the wait was 1 hour , I would be given a return time of 11a  anytime afte 11a I could use this and go thru the FP lane  pretty much what I had heard BUT at 10:30a  I could get a return time for Little Mermaid  and that would be fro whatever the current wait time is . These are just the examples she gave , so you are not limited to 1 DAS return time at a time . She was very helpful and understood my concerns travelling with  a group of Developmentally disabled with a wide range of disabilities and special needs . From the conversation I definitely got the impression that the CMs are being given some leeway in interperating the new DAS. She asked me to call back after the trip with my feedback as she felt our group would be one of the first of their needs to tryout the new system.


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## cmwade77

englishrose47 said:


> I thought I would shar some info I got this morning . I called special needs and was put through to  the line that is set up to explain the new DAS. Many thingswere as have been posted  BUT I had only read tht you could have 1 DAS return time at a time, I was told that  and I use the example she gave
> , If I went to Peter Pan at 10 a  and the wait was 1 hour , I would be given a return time of 11a  anytime afte 11a I could use this and go thru the FP lane  pretty much what I had heard BUT at 10:30a  I could get a return time for Little Mermaid  and that would be fro whatever the current wait time is . These are just the examples she gave , so you are not limited to 1 DAS return time at a time . She was very helpful and understood my concerns travelling with  a group of Developmentally disabled with a wide range of disabilities and special needs . From the conversation I definitely got the impression that the CMs are being given some leeway in interperating the new DAS. She asked me to call back after the trip with my feedback as she felt our group would be one of the first of their needs to tryout the new system.



I was also told something similar on Friday, but the differences were that you were about to go on the first ride and the second ride had to have a wait of one hour or more.

So, it sounds like this is being refined some and since your conversation was more recent than mine, I am guessing it is more current.


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## Jperiod

Hmmm, yesterday I asked about getting another return time right before going on Indy and they said no, had to come back to the kiosk after the ride.  All the waits were very long.  Maybe it's because you'll have multiple people with DASs?  I'll have to ask again when I go back tomorrow.

Today we got to the park 30 minutes after opening and bounced around between kiosks and fastpasses, getting more done, but A LOT more walking.   DS faded much faster and so did we.  We still did less than we did with the GAC, and much more effort.  We used to just stick to the rides in a land before moving on, but we found we needed to bounce between 2 in order to utilize FP, RT, and lower wait rides while waiting for the FP and RT.  Even then, he was frustrated by lack of options he was used to, but worked through it.  Maybe this is how everyone else does Disney, but I don't think this will work for us until DS is older.  Glad this didn't happen until the end of our AP year. 

I think getting to the park at rope drop or using a touring plan will work much better with this DAS in order to keep lines the shortest and hopefully keep options open for those that able-bodied.


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## smidgy

if you need to sit in the front of shows because of low vision, you only need to tell the castmember at the attraction.

at Alladin, they had us wait in a dif. area and let us in to choose our seats (us and others who were told to wait in that area) before they let everyone else in,.

I was very relieved.


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## IndianaPrincess

Can you get a return time and use it the next day?

Also, can someone tell me if they maintain two lines for nonaccessible rides? One for DAS returns and one for wheelchair waiting line. 

Thanks!


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## luv2sleep

IndianaPrincess said:


> Can you get a return time and use it the next day?  Also, can someone tell me if they maintain two lines for nonaccessible rides? One for DAS returns and one for wheelchair waiting line.  Thanks!



I was told they have to be used the same day like FPs. You can always ask though. That could change. 

I never saw 2 lines.


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## KPeveler

luv2sleep said:


> I was told they have to be used the same day like FPs. You can always ask though. That could change.
> 
> I never saw 2 lines.



They do write the date on the wheelchair return time, so yes, you do have to use it the same day.

Also, some lines are more clear than others about DAS vs wheelchair return line.  Some have a wheelchair return and a DAS, some have wheelchair return and DAS all together.  

I have not tried ones with a completely inaccessible line yet that did not also have a Wheelchair Return Time, so I cannot tell you.

I can tell you that it will be very hard in some places to separate wheelchair line from DAS - there is simply not room to do so.  It also seems to vary by attraction and land.

I do know that the system is being kept as it is, warts and all, for two weeks, so they can gather sufficient data before making any changes to either the DAS or the wheelchair return time tickets.  This makes sense, since we knew there would be problems, but it is impossible to tell what they are after only one or two days.  So, once two weeks have gone by, IF any adjustments need to be considered, they will do so.  But until those two weeks are gone (8 more days), nothing should be changing, at least on the DL/DCA side of the country.


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## cmwade77

KPeveler said:
			
		

> They do write the date on the wheelchair return time, so yes, you do have to use it the same day.
> 
> Also, some lines are more clear than others about DAS vs wheelchair return line.  Some have a wheelchair return and a DAS, some have wheelchair return and DAS all together.
> 
> I have not tried ones with a completely inaccessible line yet that did not also have a Wheelchair Return Time, so I cannot tell you.
> 
> I can tell you that it will be very hard in some places to separate wheelchair line from DAS - there is simply not room to do so.  It also seems to vary by attraction and land.
> 
> I do know that the system is being kept as it is, warts and all, for two weeks, so they can gather sufficient data before making any changes to either the DAS or the wheelchair return time tickets.  This makes sense, since we knew there would be problems, but it is impossible to tell what they are after only one or two days.  So, once two weeks have gone by, IF any adjustments need to be considered, they will do so.  But until those two weeks are gone (8 more days), nothing should be changing, at least on the DL/DCA side of the country.



I would imagine that just like with FP, Disney can make exceptions for having to use return times the same day in cases of things like ride closures. So if you find yourself with a Return Time AND the ride is down at the end of the night, I would ask if they can do anything.


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## Jperiod

The RTs don't have the date on the card, they would never know if you waited the next day until after the same time as the card. We had them cross out Matterhorn from yesterday at 12:20 because it was 8:30 am this morning and we were going to go on it first so we got a new return time.

There is no double line for chairs aand DAS that I saw. We did standby for Pirates and small world because of 10 min waits this morning. When we did peter pan, we used DAS and there was only 1 in front of us. Though this was yesterday morning and standby was 40 min.


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## SueM in MN

Jperiod said:


> The RTs don't have the date on the card, they would never know if you waited the next day until after the same time as the card. We had them cross out Matterhorn from yesterday at 12:20 because it was 8:30 am this morning and we were going to go on it first so we got a new return time.
> 
> There is no double line for chairs aand DAS that I saw. We did standby for Pirates and small world because of 10 min waits this morning. When we did peter pan, we used DAS and there was only 1 in front of us. Though this was yesterday morning and standby was 40 min.


The pictures I have seen did have a complete date on them.


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## KPeveler

Jperiod said:


> The RTs don't have the date on the card, they would never know if you waited the next day until after the same time as the card. We had them cross out Matterhorn from yesterday at 12:20 because it was 8:30 am this morning and we were going to go on it first so we got a new return time.
> 
> There is no double line for chairs aand DAS that I saw. We did standby for Pirates and small world because of 10 min waits this morning. When we did peter pan, we used DAS and there was only 1 in front of us. Though this was yesterday morning and standby was 40 min.



There is a date on the wheelchair return tickets.  There is not a date on the times given on the DAS card.  

I have had them use a double line for Peter Pan for me when I had a DAS return time, but only because the wheelchair return line (this is after waiting their "turn" with the wheelchair tickets) had 5 parties in it.  I arrived at my return time, and went in about 10 minutes after that.  

I think if they can, they will pull people with a DAS ahead of the wheelchair return parties, but not all lines and needs allow that.  Some places are too narrow for two lines, and some it is not needed (like when there is one person in front of you).

I do say that if you have a DAS return time and there is a long "return line" - ask a CM what to do, especially if you do NOT have a wheelchair in the group.  For some attractions, everyone with a wc return time or a DAS time were being sent through the same place, and the lines can get to be pretty long at certain times of day (after parades, fireworks, fantasmic, end of the night, things like that)

There is no end time on the wc return tickets, and that is causing some congestion at the rides - the idea was not only to combat abuse, but to spread people out, so the wheelchair line did not get too long.  

I keep ending up having the same problem - I need the wheelchair boats/vehicles, and it seems like every time I go back to a ride when it is time, there is at least one other party that needs the same vehicle.  Which means I get to wait, somewhere between 4 and 20 minutes per party (depending on ride length) in addition to the wheelchair line, in addition to the time I already waited.  

I got a wc return time for Jungle Cruise yesterday, and no one needed the wheelchair boat.  I am in a manual chair, and since it was a 20 minute wait time, I just stayed in the area.  I am solo in the parks, and do not have the ability to push myself in circles all day getting the return tickets, then going back.  I watched the wc boat go by empty, then when it was my turn, I was behind someone who needed the wc boat as well.  They cannot deviate from the system yet, but rides like JC and IASW are hoping (the attractions CMs hope, I have not heard this from management yet) to have the ability to mark on a ticket whether that person needs the wc boat.  That not only gives the ride a heads up what is coming, but if no one is waiting for the wc boat and it is empty, they would just load me in that previous circumstance.  

I am all for waiting my turn, but instead I would have waited twice as long as stand-by, because I need the wheelchair boat.  

This is going to be especially problematic for Small World Holiday, as those lines are very long.  They are having problems at HM right now for the same reason - they don't know if someone needs to park a chair and walk, or take the chair in (green or red card).  Since there is no "end time" to the wc return ticket, sometimes 5 or 6 "red cards" show up in a row.  This happened the last time I road Mansion.  I waited my 90 minutes, went to the attraction, waited outside the queue (even the wc queue was too full to send us in) for about 10 minutes, then waited in the wc holding area for the people in the building to cycle out (another 20+ minutes).  

I wish that the wheelchair return tickets had a window like a FP - with opening for the CM to make personal judgments, like if a ride broke down or someone was in an interpreted show that ran late.  Most families will be able to make it back, or get another time.  If the goal is to spread out wheelchair users, not knowing when people are returning is not helping.

I have had no problems with the DAS.  I wish that wheelchair return times had a return window.  And as a solo manual wheelchair user, I wish I could get a return time for Splash Mountain without having to push all the way there (very bad hills).  I have a DAS, but most manual wheelchair users will not.

The idea is sound, there are just a few bugs to work out.  In general, I have had good luck with the way things are working now.


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## luv2sleep

SueM in MN said:


> The pictures I have seen did have a complete date on them.



True but my son's, for example, is a 2 week pass because my he is an AP holder.


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## SueM in MN

luv2sleep said:


> True but my son's, for example, is a 2 week pass because my he is an AP holder.


i thought the person who posted about it was talking about the wheelchair return tickets, not the DAS.


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## KPeveler

SueM in MN said:


> i thought the person who posted about it was talking about the wheelchair return tickets, not the DAS.



Correct.  For 9 rides in the park there is not a wheelchair stand by time - if a person with a wheelchair/scooter/etc shows up, and does not have a DAS card, a wheelchair return time is written. This is for that day only. It completely separate from the DAS, and has nothing to do with how long a person is staying or AP holders.


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## luv2sleep

SueM in MN said:


> i thought the person who posted about it was talking about the wheelchair return tickets, not the DAS.


  Got it. Thought the return time question was in reference to the DAS cards. Sorry for the mistake.


----------



## cmwade77

SueM in MN said:


> The pictures I have seen did have a complete date on them.



I just looked at my DAS and it does not have a date on the return time that we never made it back to Toy Story for. That being said, I wouldn't use it after the date I got it though, unless there were extenuating circumstances that Disney told me it was ok to do.

I just saw that the times being talked about are for the return time cards, which I have not yet used, but I can imagine them having a date on them as well.


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## Jperiod

Sigh, tried for a RT at screaming tonight at 7:07 and were turned away. Park closed at 8, woc at 8:15, standby was 30 min and they were still taking people in line. DS was very upset.


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## luv2sleep

Jperiod said:


> Sigh, tried for a RT at screaming tonight at 7:07 and were turned away. Park closed at 8, woc at 8:15, standby was 30 min and they were still taking people in line. DS was very upset.



Why wouldn't they give you a return time? Was it because it was too late?


----------



## KPeveler

Jperiod said:


> Sigh, tried for a RT at screaming tonight at 7:07 and were turned away. Park closed at 8, woc at 8:15, standby was 30 min and they were still taking people in line. DS was very upset.



File a complaint, either in person (and ask for an extra return time), or in writing.  Disneyland City Hall Plaids generally tell me to go online and click the "email us" option at the bottom of the Disneyland webpage.  I know it will not fix today but they should know about it.  Also include any CM names you remember.

I got a DAS RT for Peter Pan at 830 when the wait was 45 minutes and the park closed at 9!  They should definitely have written you a time!


----------



## IndianaPrincess

luv2sleep said:


> Got it. Thought the return time question was in reference to the DAS cards. Sorry for the mistake.



I was asking about the DAS card. Thank you to everyone who answered.

The no changes for two weeks thing is dumb. If something is so obviously no working, then fix it! Don't make those of us who visit during your "test" time to deal with stuff that you know needs tweaking.


----------



## disney david

IndianaPrincess said:


> I was asking about the DAS card. Thank you to everyone who answered.
> 
> The no changes for two weeks thing is dumb. If something is so obviously no working, then fix it! Don't make those of us who visit during your "test" time to deal with stuff that you know needs tweaking.



If they make change each day it be more confusing for the guest. Waiting two weeks give Disney a chance to see if it work. And more to make the guests follow it instead of giving in and making changes to make some people happy.  It not really a test it going to stay it more if they are something they don't like they will make changes. Their never going back to a gac so everyone needs to understand that no matter how much complaints and protest they will not back down. They will make changes to it if have to and will continue to work with family's but will not go back to the gac.


----------



## Jperiod

luv2sleep said:


> Why wouldn't they give you a return time? Was it because it was too late?



The cm said screaming closed early for woc. But we were at the kiosk acrossclosed from screaming and they were still taking people in standby until  715 which I pointed out.


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## piratenightmares

Sometimes my son uses a wheelchair and sometimes he doesn't. It's a comfort and stamina issue. I don't know how the wheelchair cards work. I assume he will need both DAS and this wheelchair card because when he isn't using the chair he would still need the DAS. My question is if one has a DAS do they also need the wheelchair card?


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## cmwade77

Jperiod said:


> Sigh, tried for a RT at screaming tonight at 7:07 and were turned away. Park closed at 8, woc at 8:15, standby was 30 min and they were still taking people in line. DS was very upset.


I have had issues with GACs not being honored close to the end of the day, even when the Standby line was still open, so this is not something completely new to have happen.

That being said, this system is intended to provide equality and that is exactly what I expect of it. That means if the standby line is open to guests joining it, I expect to be able to get a return time. Now, if guests are not able to join the standby line for some reason, such as the ride broke down, I could see them saying I can't give you a return time for that attraction right now.

My suggestion is that if this happens, you should first try pointing out that this system is designed to provide equality and that the standby line is still open. If they continue to refuse, I would suggest asking for a lead or manager. I would also strongly suggest writing down the names of everyone you deal with, better still would be to record it after the first no, if you have the equipment to do so. By recording, you will make sure you not only remember names, but are able to remember EXACTLY what was said. It also eliminates the he said/she said game if you do have to escalate the matter at all.


----------



## piratenightmares

cmwade77 said:


> I have had issues with GACs not being honored close to the end of the day, even when the Standby line was still open, so this is not something completely new to have happen.
> 
> That being said, this system is intended to provide equality and that is exactly what I expect of it. That means if the standby line is open to guests joining it, I expect to be able to get a return time. Now, if guests are not able to join the standby line for some reason, such as the ride broke down, I could see them saying I can't give you a return time for that attraction right now.
> 
> My suggestion is that if this happens, you should first try pointing out that this system is designed to provide equality and that the standby line is still open. If they continue to refuse, I would suggest asking for a lead or manager. I would also strongly suggest writing down the names of everyone you deal with, better still would be to record it after the first no, if you have the equipment to do so. By recording, you will make sure you not only remember names, but are able to remember EXACTLY what was said. It also eliminates the he said/she said game if you do have to escalate the matter at all.



For some reason I was under the impression the RT on rides with FP would be using the FP return time not the stand by line.


----------



## disney david

Jperiod said:


> The cm said screaming closed early for woc. But we were at the kiosk acrossclosed from screaming and they were still taking people in standby until  715 which I pointed out.



So you was their at 715 and they planed to close around 745 you think. So only went once and know they closed them early just not sure on early. And then stand by line was 30 so if they have you a das it be for when the ride closed they still let people in the stand by line because the ride is open. If you came back at closing and they let people in then that wrong. 

Not saying you was wrong or Disney was just trying to point out why they did that. If they gave return times that would exceed park hours that be to much a temptation for guest to able it because fast pass only goes to the park close not after. And if your in the stand by line when park closes you get to ride.


----------



## lanejudy

piratenightmares said:


> Sometimes my son uses a wheelchair and sometimes he doesn't. It's a comfort and stamina issue. I don't know how the wheelchair cards work. I assume he will need both DAS and this wheelchair card because when he isn't using the chair he would still need the DAS. My question is if one has a DAS do they also need the wheelchair card?



Whether or not he qualifies for a DAS will depend on his needs.  My interpretation of what you have indicated above is that he does not need a DAS if using a wheelchair.  Therefore, he would not qualify for a DAS.  If I have misunderstood, and you believe he needs to use DAS with or without the wheelchair, then you should be prepared to explain his NEEDS and how that impacts his ability wait in lines.  This should be completely separate from what the wheelchair does for him (comfort and stamina issue noted above).

There is no "wheelchair card."  The only card is DAS.  That is basically for waiting outside of lines.  All other needs are accommodated by explaining at the ride (avoiding stairs, visual, etc.).  If there is an accessibility issue at any specific attraction the CM will direct you accordingly to use the wheelchair.  On a few attractions, as needed, they may issue a wheelchair return time so the accessible entrance doesn't get considerably backed up.

Enjoy your vacation!


----------



## piratenightmares

lanejudy said:


> Whether or not he qualifies for a DAS will depend on his needs.  My interpretation of what you have indicated above is that he does not need a DAS if using a wheelchair.  Therefore, he would not qualify for a DAS.  If I have misunderstood, and you believe he needs to use DAS with or without the wheelchair, then you should be prepared to explain his NEEDS and how that impacts his ability wait in lines.  This should be completely separate from what the wheelchair does for him (comfort and stamina issue noted above).
> 
> There is no "wheelchair card."  The only card is DAS.  That is basically for waiting outside of lines.  All other needs are accommodated by explaining at the ride (avoiding stairs, visual, etc.).  If there is an accessibility issue at any specific attraction the CM will direct you accordingly to use the wheelchair.  On a few attractions, as needed, they may issue a wheelchair return time so the accessible entrance doesn't get considerably backed up.
> 
> Enjoy your vacation!



He has a lot of problems when he isn't in a wheelchair. I was only explaining what we use the wheelchair for. NOT his other needs when he isn't using it.

I am prepared to explain his NEEDS and have done so in the past with a GAC. I didn't feel the need to explain all of his issues in my post. When he doesn't use the wheelchair he DOES qualify for a DAS (I am certain of that). 

If there is no wheelchair tag then what is everyone talking about with wheelchair return times written down?
I must have misunderstood what people are talking about with the wheelchair tag.


----------



## lanejudy

piratenightmares said:


> He has a lot of problems when he isn't in a wheelchair. I was only explaining what we use the wheelchair for. NOT his other needs when he isn't using it.
> 
> I am prepared to explain his NEEDS and have done so in the past with a GAC. I didn't feel the need to explain all of his issues in my post. When he doesn't use the wheelchair he DOES qualify for a DAS (I am certain of that).
> 
> If there is no wheelchair tag then what is everyone talking about with wheelchair return times written down?
> I must have misunderstood what people are talking about with the wheelchair tag.



That's what I'm trying to point out...it sounds as if you are able to accommodate his needs with a wheelchair, in which case he would not qualify for a DAS.  He doesn't have to sit in it all day, he can walk and either he or someone else can push it, use it to lug your stuff around, etc.  Use the w/c in lines.  It's not really a case of "I'm ok when I use the wheelchair but need a DAS for when I choose not to use the chair."  They'll expect you to use the wheelchair as his accommodation IF that solves his issues when used.

If he has OTHER needs that are not adequately accommodated by the use of the wheelchair, then explain ONLY those additional needs that impact his ability to function within a regular queue when requesting a DAS so as not to confuse the CMs about the wheelchair use.

Enjoy your vacation!


----------



## cmwade77

piratenightmares said:


> For some reason I was under the impression the RT on rides with FP would be using the FP return time not the stand by line.


No, as that would not be equal access. If you have a DAS, you can choose to obtain a FP OR a return time.

The reason that using the FP return times would not be equal is a situation like this:
At 11:00, the standby line for Indiana Jones is 45 minutes, but the FP return time is 5:00 PM.
Now, let's say I have to leave the park at 4:00 PM, for whatever reasons. A person who needs no assistance would be able to get in the Standby line and wait 45 minutes. But since I need assistance, that doesn't work for me. If they say that I can't come back until 5:00 PM on my DAS, then they are essentially saying that I can't have the same access as someone who doesn't need the assistance. In addition, it would make my DAS invalid until 5:00 PM, when someone who didn't need assistance could have waited 45 minutes and went on something else.

It is a similar concept with the return time cards, basically all are to be issued based off the Standby line wait time. You are free to choose to get a FP instead of course, but the point is that it is your choice to wait in the Standby line, albeit virtually in the case of those that need assistance OR use the FP.

This was an issue with the GACs for a long time, before Disney changed them, they insisted that you must get FPs, if they are available, but many pointed out how this was not fair, using examples such as the one above.


----------



## cmwade77

disney david said:


> So you was their at 715 and they planed to close around 745 you think. So only went once and know they closed them early just not sure on early. And then stand by line was 30 so if they have you a das it be for when the ride closed they still let people in the stand by line because the ride is open. If you came back at closing and they let people in then that wrong.
> 
> Not saying you was wrong or Disney was just trying to point out why they did that. If they gave return times that would exceed park hours that be to much a temptation for guest to able it because fast pass only goes to the park close not after. And if your in the stand by line when park closes you get to ride.


But that is the point, the DAS is supposed to be equal to waiting in the Standby queue. The only difference is supposed to be that you don't have to physically wait in the queue, except for a short period when you return.

So, as long as the standby queue is open, return times should be added to the DAS. Now this adds some logistical issues that Disney will need to address, such as what happens when your return time is after park closing? How do you approach CMs that might not be there? But these are issues that I am sure Disney has addressed, as they are readily obvious that if the DAS is meant to be equal to the standby queue, then this situation will present it's self.


----------



## piratenightmares

lanejudy said:


> That's what I'm trying to point out...it sounds as if you are able to accommodate his needs with a wheelchair, in which case he would not qualify for a DAS.  He doesn't have to sit in it all day, he can walk and either he or someone else can push it, use it to lug your stuff around, etc.  Use the w/c in lines.  It's not really a case of "I'm ok when I use the wheelchair but need a DAS for when I choose not to use the chair."  They'll expect you to use the wheelchair as his accommodation IF that solves his issues when used.
> 
> If he has OTHER needs that are not adequately accommodated by the use of the wheelchair, then explain ONLY those additional needs that impact his ability to function within a regular queue when requesting a DAS so as not to confuse the CMs about the wheelchair use.
> 
> Enjoy your vacation!



No we can't use the wheelchair all of the time. We only use it when he NEEDS it. We do what's best for him AND everyone around him when we go anywhere. I didn't feel the need to explain here all of the reasons why it's this way: HOWEVER the wheelchair is a safe haven. If he is IN the wheelchair ALL the time it is no longer a safe haven and he would have the same issues IN the chair as he does OUT of the chair (for example, outbursts, shouting, hysterical crying, freezing in one position and not moving, becoming violent when anyone tries to help him to list a few).

I just explained the entire issue to Guest Services (in much greater detail).

I just spoke to Ashely and she said there are some guests who need both and DO use both. Even for comfort if it's what he needs. 

Sometimes we CAN use the wheelchair if he needs it for comfort but we would (based on my explanation of my son's needs with AND without the wheelchiar)  be able to use both the wheelchair entrances to rides when needed AND have the DAS. Ashely said they would NOT require us to use only the wheelchair. 

If he could always use the wheelchair we would simply use that line. That isn't how it is for him. That's why I asked the question.

EDIT: when I say 'comfort' I don't just mean because he wants to sit around. No. It's a serious comfort zone that he needs to function. The Guest Services stated: "When he needs it for comfort he will be able to use the wheelchair. You can park it when he isn't using it and use the DAS." 
She also said my explanation was fine and they shouldn't be confused at City Hall about using the chair sometimes and not others.


----------



## KPeveler

IndianaPrincess said:


> I was asking about the DAS card. Thank you to everyone who answered.
> 
> The no changes for two weeks thing is dumb. If something is so obviously no working, then fix it! Don't make those of us who visit during your "test" time to deal with stuff that you know needs tweaking.



Two weeks may feel like a long time on the ground, but from the exec's and planners' points of view, it is only two weekends during a low visit time.  That really is not very long.  

They are collecting and keeping every wheelchair return ticket, so they can keep track of how many people come back.  They are collecting stories.  

I would be annoyed if it was 2 months, but two weeks is not very long - we are already half-way there.  They need all the data to get a good idea of how many people are using the system, how they are using it, and how often.

It definitely it frustrating, but they need to get enough feedback so that if (or when) they need to make a change, they can do so once.  I would rather wait another week or two and have the system alter ONCE than have it change slightly every time I go - that would be even more confusing.


----------



## lanejudy

piratenightmares said:


> No we can't use the wheelchair all of the time. We only use it when he NEEDS it. We do what's best for him AND everyone around him when we go anywhere. I didn't feel the need to explain here all of the reasons why it's this way: HOWEVER the wheelchair is a safe haven. If he is IN the wheelchair ALL the time it is no longer a safe haven and he would have the same issues IN the chair as he does OUT of the chair (for example, outbursts, shouting, hysterical crying, freezing in one position and not moving, becoming violent when anyone tries to help him to list a few).
> 
> I just explained the entire issue to Guest Services (in much greater detail).
> 
> I just spoke to Ashely and she said there are some guests who need both and DO use both. Even for comfort if it's what he needs.
> 
> Sometimes we CAN use the wheelchair if he needs it for comfort but we would (based on my explanation of my son's needs with AND without the wheelchiar)  be able to use both the wheelchair entrances to rides when needed AND have the DAS. Ashely said they would NOT require us to use only the wheelchair.
> 
> If he could always use the wheelchair we would simply use that line. That isn't how it is for him. That's why I asked the question.
> 
> EDIT: when I say 'comfort' I don't just mean because he wants to sit around. No. It's a serious comfort zone that he needs to function. The Guest Services stated: "When he needs it for comfort he will be able to use the wheelchair. You can park it when he isn't using it and use the DAS."
> She also said my explanation was fine and they shouldn't be confused at City Hall about using the chair sometimes and not others.



Great!  I wasn't asking you to explain online.  There have been concerns about CMs not allowing a GAC when wheelchair is used, even though WE all know it should be allowed, and I was pointing out that the CMs have to recognize the difference between his wheelchair needs and his needs not met by the wheelchair.  It has been reported some CMs are getting lost in a conversation that starts "my wheelchair does this but I still need that..."  which is why I recommended not going into detail about the wheelchair at all.  Hopefully ALL CMs are trained to listen to the full story and can understand that one accommodation does not rule out another, but it is being reported at this time as being a confusion.

I'm glad you know what words you'll use to explain his needs for a GAC.  Enjoy your vacation!


----------



## KPeveler

lanejudy said:


> Great!  I wasn't asking you to explain online.  There have been concerns about CMs not allowing a GAC when wheelchair is used, even though WE all know it should be allowed, and I was pointing out that the CMs have to recognize the difference between his wheelchair needs and his needs not met by the wheelchair.  It has been reported some CMs are getting lost in a conversation that starts "my wheelchair does this but I still need that..."  which is why I recommended not going into detail about the wheelchair at all.  Hopefully ALL CMs are trained to listen to the full story and can understand that one accommodation does not rule out another, but it is being reported at this time as being a confusion.
> 
> I'm glad you know what words you'll use to explain his needs for a GAC.  Enjoy your vacation!



In my experience, most CMs cut me off when I try to explain about my other needs.  I start talking, and they interrupt and say "but you already have a wheelchair."  And I have to say "yes, but that does not help with..."

The other thing I have discovered is that if you say "If I am in the sun, I will have a reaction and end up in the hospital."  To you, it sounds like you are explaining the worst case scenario.  To them, they are hearing about what would happen outside the park.  Yes, my reaction to too much heat/sun *would *land me in the hospital, but first I would pass out in their queue and just fall over out of my wheelchair.

So this is my suggestion to keep things simple:

*Even if you show up in a wheelchair, if you have other needs, just do not mention the wheelchair at all.*
*Keep your explanation limited to what would happen* in a queue*.*


----------



## piratenightmares

lanejudy said:


> Great!  I wasn't asking you to explain online.  There have been concerns about CMs not allowing a GAC when wheelchair is used, even though WE all know it should be allowed, and I was pointing out that the CMs have to recognize the difference between his wheelchair needs and his needs not met by the wheelchair.  It has been reported some CMs are getting lost in a conversation that starts "my wheelchair does this but I still need that..."  which is why I recommended not going into detail about the wheelchair at all.  Hopefully ALL CMs are trained to listen to the full story and can understand that one accommodation does not rule out another, but it is being reported at this time as being a confusion.
> 
> I'm glad you know what words you'll use to explain his needs for a GAC.  Enjoy your vacation!



When we've used the GAC (prior to the DAS) he's always had his wheelchair only some of the time. It wasn't ever a problem explaining it to the CMs before. That's why I was confused by what you were saying. It seems like whether or not they issue a DAS would be the same as the GAC. But with all this talk about various lines for different things and the DAS card and wheelchair tags it just wasn't making sense. I probably won't fully understand until we experience it. I'm sure all the changes are confusing to CMs and right now they are dealing with how it all works themselves. 

I'm just trying to figure out as much of it in advance as I can so I don't have to ask questions I could already know the answers to. 

Our vacation will be fabulous! Thanks!


----------



## piratenightmares

KPeveler said:


> In my experience, most CMs cut me off when I try to explain about my other needs.  I start talking, and they interrupt and say "but you already have a wheelchair."  And I have to say "yes, but that does not help with..."
> 
> The other thing I have discovered is that if you say "If I am in the sun, I will have a reaction and end up in the hospital."  To you, it sounds like you are explaining the worst case scenario.  To them, they are hearing about what would happen outside the park.  Yes, my reaction to too much heat/sun *would *land me in the hospital, but first I would pass out in their queue and just fall over out of my wheelchair.
> 
> So this is my suggestion to keep things simple:
> 
> *Even if you show up in a wheelchair, if you have other needs, just do not mention the wheelchair at all.*
> *Keep your explanation limited to what would happen* in a queue*.*



I never had that experience. My son was always in the chair when I explained what his needs were for the GAC. They always asked to 'see' the person with the need and I bring him inside in the chair. They always provided a GAC when I was requesting one with the wheelchair. Hmmm.


----------



## disney david

cmwade77 said:


> But that is the point, the DAS is supposed to be equal to waiting in the Standby queue. The only difference is supposed to be that you don't have to physically wait in the queue, except for a short period when you return.
> 
> So, as long as the standby queue is open, return times should be added to the DAS. Now this adds some logistical issues that Disney will need to address, such as what happens when your return time is after park closing? How do you approach CMs that might not be there? But these are issues that I am sure Disney has addressed, as they are readily obvious that if the DAS is meant to be equal to the standby queue, then this situation will present it's self.



I know what your saying but when you return you use the fast pass line which will be closed when the park is closed. Of every user waited with the das to the end of the day to use it hey might have to delay woc. While I am not saying she should of been sent away I think the right judgement should be to either let them on or ice them a return time of 15 then let them on.

You would have to be on the line at park closing for them to allow you to ride. If someone gets their at 8 they he turned away. But if they allow das then you have other start to complain.


----------



## Jperiod

They could've issued us a time range like 7:27-7:40 and explained we would need to be back in time (heck, we would have been there any time they told us because DS was so desperate).

To the person with the sometimes wheelchair for their son, I don't think it'd be any different than the stroller as a wheelchair sticker we have. Most of the time you'd use your das rt, except during rides/shows you want to use the wheelchair rt or accessible entrances. So far we've only had to use ours shows.


----------



## IndianaPrincess

KPeveler said:


> Two weeks may feel like a long time on the ground, but from the exec's and planners' points of view, it is only two weekends during a low visit time.  That really is not very long.
> 
> They are collecting and keeping every wheelchair return ticket, so they can keep track of how many people come back.  They are collecting stories.
> 
> *I would be annoyed if it was 2 months, but two weeks is not very long - we are already half-way there.  *They need all the data to get a good idea of how many people are using the system, how they are using it, and how often.
> 
> It definitely it frustrating, but they need to get enough feedback so that if (or when) they need to make a change, they can do so once.  I would rather wait another week or two and have the system alter ONCE than have it change slightly every time I go - that would be even more confusing.



Don't forget, I'm still pouting because we will be there during this changeover period. This is our "once in a lifetime" trip to Disneyland. Honestly, I think this will all work for our family. My son is able to waiting outside the normal line environment and my mother in law is able to transfer out of her wheelchair. But I have great sympathy for those on their once in a lifetime trips who are most severely impacted by the kinks that will be later worked out.  Call it Catholic guilt.   I thank everyone up and down for their reports on how it's going in the parks. It is really helping me prepare my family to have a MAGICAL trip!


----------



## Jperiod

Forgot to say, RSR racers was broken down when we arrived for our RT today. The CM at the entrance was issuing FPs to return any time the rest of today and crossing off our RT on the DAS so we could get a new RT for another ride. We were never able to make it back though.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

We are back from our four day trip to DL over the long weekend (including the Halloween party on Friday night), and I am still trying to process what I think of the changes. 

Overall, I think Disney did a really good job implementing the new system, but I think there are still some kinks to be worked out. As I and others have said earlier, I hope they will factor in the FP wait time into the return time--some of the FP lines were *really* long over the incredibly busy weekend, and extremely difficult for DS. In effect you are waiting the standby time plus the FP time. We were able to find work arounds for the long FP lines, but it wasn't easy and required a lot of explaining. 

We also noticed a big increase in our tiredness from the added amount of walking compared to previous trips. Even with planning we felt like we were walking back and forth all over the place. We were fortunate to have family members who could serve as "runners," but I feel for those who won't have that flexibility. 

There is no way around it: with the new card flexibility has definitely been lost, and for us, that is going to make a difference in how often we return to the parks. I would be very cautious about going at busy times, as there were so few rides with short waits to kill the long wait times for the DAS. For DS we basically need "walk on" without the pass, which made riding something else really difficult. FP worked for one ride a day, but by time we'd ridden that first ride or could pick up another, the times were so late in the day, we couldn't do it (DS can't last all day). So factor in crowds if you are planning a trip with the new card. The problem, of course, is that there are so few slow periods at DL anymore with all the local AP holders. Also, if you go at a busy time be prepared for a long line at GS. The line at DL in the am was crazy.

With respect to GS, be prepared to do a lot more explaining than you are used to to get the card. I, frankly, wish they would make it even harder. There were some people in line next to me, who talked them into a card even though according to the guidelines they shouldn't have been given one. I hope it cuts down on the abuse, but I did see an awful lot of "invisible" disabilities as the weekend went on. People are savvy and will learn the magic words quickly. I'm not sure there is any way to truly curb abuse unless they make the DAS so restrictive that it takes away the incentive. 

Overall, I can't help but feel sad that a program that really worked for people who needed it, had to be changed. The DAS definitely helps, but it requires more work and patience that not all kids will have.


----------



## cmwade77

I have said it before and I will say it again, the simple solution is to stop doing return times. Instead when you first get in line for the first ride of the day, write the date, time, wait time and the time the card will next be valid at. Then the person can't go on the next ride until the wait time of the first one has passed and this will continue throughout the day at each attraction. 

In order to keep this fair, everyone would need a card that needs to use accessible entrances at non mainstreamed queues. But it would ensure equal wait times, fixes many of the issues that have come up with return times and will lower the costs to run the system. Yes, there will be some issues, but all in all it would have fewer issues than return times while still accomplishing the same effect.


----------



## piratenightmares

cmwade77 said:


> I have said it before and I will say it again, the simple solution is to stop doing return times. Instead when you first get in line for the first ride of the day, write the date, time, wait time and the time the card will next be valid at. Then the person can't go on the next ride until the wait time of the first one has passed and this will continue throughout the day at each attraction.
> 
> In order to keep this fair, everyone would need a card that needs to use accessible entrances at non mainstreamed queues. But it would ensure equal wait times, fixes many of the issues that have come up with return times and will lower the costs to run the system. Yes, there will be some issues, but all in all it would have fewer issues than return times while still accomplishing the same effect.




You're hired.


----------



## cmwade77

piratenightmares said:
			
		

> You're hired.



I honestly don't quite know why they chose not to do it my suggested way, other parks do it this way and it works very well and reduces abuse, as people know they will be waiting an equal amount of time. I am sure Disney has its reasons, but I just can't imagine what they are. And many of these other parks tried return times first, but they didn't work, much for the reasons we ate seeing now.


----------



## Vidia2

cmwade77 said:


> I have said it before and I will say it again, the simple solution is to stop doing return times. Instead when you first get in line for the first ride of the day, write the date, time, wait time and the time the card will next be valid at. Then the person can't go on the next ride until the wait time of the first one has passed and this will continue throughout the day at each attraction.
> 
> In order to keep this fair, everyone would need a card that needs to use accessible entrances at non mainstreamed queues. But it would ensure equal wait times, fixes many of the issues that have come up with return times and will lower the costs to run the system. Yes, there will be some issues, but all in all it would have fewer issues than return times while still accomplishing the same effect.



???


----------



## cmwade77

Vidia2 said:
			
		

> ???


I am just curious what the question is? with mysuggestion everyone waits their fair turn, but instead of getting a time to come back, they get to go on the ride, then wait before they can go on the next ride. This eliminates the problem of kids that can't understand why they have to leave and come back, eliminates backtracking, eliminates the issue of getting return times close to park closing and having them say they can't do it, eliminates the need for the kiosks. Just being able to eliminate the kiosks would save approximately $6,000 (this is probably a lot higher number, as I used conservative numbers to guesstimate this) a day in labor costs alone.

I also suggested it, as it addressed the extra walling that the pp mentioned.


----------



## Vidia2

cmwade77 said:


> I am just curious what the question is? with mysuggestion everyone waits their fair turn, but instead of getting a time to come back, they get to go on the ride, then wait before they can go on the next ride. This eliminates the problem of kids that can't understand why they have to leave and come back, eliminates backtracking, eliminates the issue of getting return times close to park closing and having them say they can't do it, eliminates the need for the kiosks. Just being able to eliminate the kiosks would save approximately $6,000 (this is probably a lot higher number, as I used conservative numbers to guesstimate this) a day in labor costs alone.
> 
> I also suggested it, as it addressed the extra walling that the pp mentioned.



Sorry, I just didn't understand what you meant.  Sounds like a better system to me.  Too bad we don't have a say.


----------



## Jperiod

I didn't get it either, but now I do and it IS much better!! That would eliminate the inflexibility of not knowing what ride your kid will be in the mood for in xx time or where you'll be!


----------



## CuppieCake04

BeveMom said:


> I read elsewhere that one of the accommodations that might be considered is to allow for multiple ridings on something without having to have your card re-stamped and waiting in line again (presumably to handle the children who tend to get fixated, or have issues with transitions).  Can anyone comment on this?



If this is the case that would change things for us.  My son is one of those children who get fixated on a ride.  We ride that ride over and over.  SO much so on our last trip I got a frequent flyer card on Star tours.  As we went through it so many times on our trip that the CMS at the ride actually remembered us, and on our last day she gave me the award for being a trooper... 

after 4 weeks at disney i still HAVE NOT seen most of MK, as I spend all my time at space mountain...lol


----------



## cmwade77

Vidia2 said:
			
		

> Sorry, I just didn't understand what you meant.  Sounds like a better system to me.  Too bad we don't have a say.



it's Ok, I just didn't know what the question was. 

But we do get a say, at least if enough people write Disney with feedback. Believe me they are listening right now.

What they won't do is simply go back to the old system, but if enough people write requesting something like I have suggested, since it would have similar results to the return time passes, we might have a chance to get it.


----------



## disney david

cmwade77 said:


> it's Ok, I just didn't know what the question was.
> 
> But we do get a say, at least if enough people write Disney with feedback. Believe me they are listening right now.
> 
> What they won't do is simply go back to the old system, but if enough people write requesting something like I have suggested, since it would have similar results to the return time passes, we might have a chance to get it.



Your right but I don't think they will go to that system they will make small changes. But don't think they will implement where you get right on a ride then have to wait. I could be wrong but since other theme park do basically the same system their no reason for them to make that change. I see them making change to return times when as a pp said about a ride closing I see some other small changes but not where you get right on the first ride then wait for the rest of your rides. Maybe they make it simpler but they want to stay away from people trying to abuse it as min as they can.




I am in no way saying no one should write Disney please do let them know what works and what dose. As pin as you tried it let them know they my change it to that system I could be wrong In my opinion I don't think so. But they are differently listening and will make some changes As they see fit.


----------



## WheeledTraveler

cmwade77 said:


> I have said it before and I will say it again, the simple solution is to stop doing return times. Instead when you first get in line for the first ride of the day, write the date, time, wait time and the time the card will next be valid at. Then the person can't go on the next ride until the wait time of the first one has passed and this will continue throughout the day at each attraction.



I think the problem with this idea at Disney (both DL/DCA and WDW) is that while it might reduce the abuse issues, it does not reduce the chances of crowding at alternate entrances. Disney originally started working on the changes because of the problems with bunching and not being able to control alternate entrance waits. By giving return times the way the DAS works, some of the use of alternate entrances should be more spread out. If everyone rode first before they waited, there would still be the bunching/crowding at alternate entrances. I know that it's still there now to an extent (especially in DL/DCA), but the DAS has only been in place a week. That's something that really should get worked out with experience.


----------



## SueM in MN

cmwade77 said:


> I have said it before and I will say it again, the simple solution is to stop doing return times. Instead when you first get in line for the first ride of the day, write the date, time, wait time and the time the card will next be valid at. Then the person can't go on the next ride until the wait time of the first one has passed and this will continue throughout the day at each attraction.
> 
> In order to keep this fair, everyone would need a card that needs to use accessible entrances at non mainstreamed queues. But it would ensure equal wait times, fixes many of the issues that have come up with return times and will lower the costs to run the system. Yes, there will be some issues, but all in all it would have fewer issues than return times while still accomplishing the same effect.


I'm curious how you would propose they figure the next wait time?

If they set it based on what the current wait time was for the ride just ridden, they will still need staff to write down the time you got in line and assign next wait times. 
Instead of kiosks, it would have to be at the attraction, so I don't see any labor savings. In fact, it may cost more than kiosks at DL because there might need to be 2 CMs - one to sign cards for arrival time and one to assign return times (some attraction exit in a different spot).

For example, I rode Small World and waited 10 minutes for my first ride (because it took that long to walk from the entrance to board).
When I get off, the wait at Small World is now 20 minutes, so after I have gotten off, I have to go to a CM at Small World to get a new time assigned. But, is it 20 minutes in the future that is the current wait or the 10 that I waited?
And, that CM is also signing people in, so I'm sure they will get people saying, I got off 10 minutes ago, but I was waiting in line.
And, will the person with the DAS who may not understand the process think they are going right back on the ride again because that was what happened the last time they checked in with a CM?

So, anyway, now I have a 20 minute wait time on my card. I decide to go to Splash Mountain, which currently has a 60 minute wait.
It took me more than 20 minutes to walk there. When I arrive, I check in with the CM to get an arrival time and since my 'wait time' is over, I get right into the Fastpass line. 
20 minutes later, I get off Splash Mountain and check in with the CM assigning return times. Since my wait in the Fastpass line was 10, the actual ride is 7 minutes send it took me 5 minutes to walk back to the time assigner CM, he puts a wait time of 22 minutes on my card.

So, in 22 minutes, I can go to any other attraction, no matter what the wait and get on right away.

I can see a lot more potential for abuse and people would very quickly figure out to go first to an attraction means they can use the Fastpass line all day without ever waiting. It would satisfy the people who want the old GAC back because it would work the same way for them, either a little extra documentation on a card.



cmwade77 said:


> I honestly don't quite know why they chose not to do it my suggested way, *other parks do it this way and it works very well* and reduces abuse, as people know they will be waiting an equal amount of time. I am sure Disney has its reasons, but I just can't imagine what they are. And many of these other parks tried return times first, but they didn't work, much for the reasons we ate seeing now.


I'm curious what parks do it the way you are suggesting and how you know it reduces abuse?
The parks I have heard of are essentially doing the same procedure as WDW. 
They may have a bit different details, like Universal/IOA in Florida allow the guest to go right into their equivalent of Fastpass line if the wait is 20 minutes or less, but the basic process is very similar.

Do I think they will tweak WDW's DAS?
Yes - once they have had it in use long enough to know what the effects of it are.

Do I think they will make major changes to it?
No - this is not something they just pulled out of a hat 4 months ago. From what I have heard, they have been working on this for about 2 years. They have looked at east other parks are doing and have changed to a system that is very similar to what other similar parks are doing.

My impression of the DAS is that is sounds workable and fair. It will mean some people who didn't plan set all will have to do some planning and there will be people that it doesn't work as well for as the GAC did.
But, GAC is gone and not coming back.

I go to WDW, not DL, but the programs at each coast should be similar. 
My DD has cerebral palsy and despite being in a wheelchair (she can't walk at all), she still gets very fatigued and has low stamina. Her muscle tone goes from Barbie doll stiff to rag doll.
She has sensory issues that make waiting in some lines very difficult for her - they are too noisy, too busy and too much going on. Then , she has to contend either other guests in line who scoot by her wheelchair, pass things over her head to their friends in line and sometimes let their toddlers sit on her feet because her footrest is perfect chair height for a 2 year old.
She is obsessive compulsive about certain things, like people possibly touching her backpack. She can have meltdowns when she is at her limit (with pinching (mostly me) - we understand that she has 'hit the wall' and needs to be removed. She takes a time out until she is calmed down. A kid in meltdown is not in a frame of mind yo enjoy anyway from my point of view.
She understands, but can't talk, so if something is wrong, we often have to play 20 questions to figure out what it is. That can get frustrating to all of us, but when she is frustrated, she can't listen anymore or communicate and all we get is 'no, no, all finished' signed to us.

Our bathroom stops may take an hour (with waiting for the restroom we need) and lunch can take an hour extra because we have to feed her. And, if she has seizure or gets to a point where her day is over because she can't keep her trunk up in her wheelchair any more, her day might be over. 

But, this all our life and we cope with it. Because she is a young adult, we have had lots of experience coping with it, but we do cope and make adjustments all the time. 
Sometimes, it means one of us going to First Aid to put her for a rest out of her wheelchair. Sometimes it means one or all of us going back to the room. 
Some days it means me or DH coming to the park at opening so we can ride the things she can't.

We did use the GAC,  but  we used it pretty much the way they are suggesting using DAS. We planned ahead of time which park to go to based on which was least likely to be busy. We choose attractions that had the shortest wait times and used Fastpass as much as possible. We saved the GAC for those attractions that she could  not do without it. And, did not feel bad using it for things where we had an extra wait because we need the wheelchair accessible car.

So, for us, DAS will be pretty much the same as what we were doing. Of course, it will take some getting used to - it is different, but different doesn't necessarily mean bad, just different.


----------



## Vidia2

WheeledTraveler said:


> I think the problem with this idea at Disney (both DL/DCA and WDW) is that while it might reduce the abuse issues, it does not reduce the chances of crowding at alternate entrances. Disney originally started working on the changes because of the problems with bunching and not being able to control alternate entrance waits. By giving return times the way the DAS works, some of the use of alternate entrances should be more spread out. If everyone rode first before they waited, there would still be the bunching/crowding at alternate entrances. I know that it's still there now to an extent (especially in DL/DCA), but the DAS has only been in place a week. That's something that really should get worked out with experience.



Either way there won't be any less crowding at alternate entrances or Fastpass lines due to the new system.  We'll all still be using those entrances and most of us will still be riding the same amount of rides using the FP line. This is really an illusion of change by giving us a token wait time in which we'll be using our other fastpasses or doing other things that we'd be doing anyway.  This is intended to weed out Abusers and will do nothing about how many people are in the alt entrances. Nothing. No matter how long it takes for the castmbers to get used to the system or any other factor.


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## 2tinkerbell

Thanks Sue for your great post!


----------



## PatMcDuck

I realize I am in the minority with this situation, but assuming my son is eligible for the DAS (and I think he will be), I will now be able to have him walk onto a few rides.  Before, they would see him in the Convaid chair, and have us wheel up the alternate entrance.  This was OK, as there was rarely a line (except Space Mt at DL).  

Some lines are getting harder and harder for me to push him, the ones with hills,, up and down.  I am getting older, and it is hard to hold onto that chair on a standby line, even with the brake.  With FP, I can make him walk on some of them during the day.  I will now make sure to try this on any rides with those long accessible entrances, to help the situation for others.  I had him walk onto Space last month at WDW, and that helped me so much.  I would have to see how it goes, but if I push him around in between the lines, he might be able to walk on most actual attraction lines, if they are not too long.

He would not be able to wait on long standby lines (MANY issues, including autism), but I have no problem with him waiting in general, of course.  We are going in February, a slow time, which will be our plan from now on.  But he does walk slow, and people are so rude on the lines, I will say.  And he is slow to get in and out of some of the rides as well.


----------



## cmwade77

SueM in MN said:


> I'm curious how you would propose they figure the next wait time?
> 
> If they set it based on what the current wait time was for the ride just ridden, they will still need staff to write down the time you got in line and assign next wait times.
> Instead of kiosks, it would have to be at the attraction, so I don't see any labor savings. In fact, it may cost more than kiosks at DL because there might need to be 2 CMs - one to sign cards for arrival time and one to assign return times (some attraction exit in a different spot).
> 
> For example, I rode Small World and waited 10 minutes for my first ride (because it took that long to walk from the entrance to board).
> When I get off, the wait at Small World is now 20 minutes, so after I have gotten off, I have to go to a CM at Small World to get a new time assigned. But, is it 20 minutes in the future that is the current wait or the 10 that I waited?
> And, that CM is also signing people in, so I'm sure they will get people saying, I got off 10 minutes ago, but I was waiting in line.
> And, will the person with the DAS who may not understand the process think they are going right back on the ride again because that was what happened the last time they checked in with a CM?
> 
> So, anyway, now I have a 20 minute wait time on my card. I decide to go to Splash Mountain, which currently has a 60 minute wait.
> It took me more than 20 minutes to walk there. When I arrive, I check in with the CM to get an arrival time and since my 'wait time' is over, I get right into the Fastpass line.
> 20 minutes later, I get off Splash Mountain and check in with the CM assigning return times. Since my wait in the Fastpass line was 10, the actual ride is 7 minutes send it took me 5 minutes to walk back to the time assigner CM, he puts a wait time of 22 minutes on my card.
> 
> So, in 22 minutes, I can go to any other attraction, no matter what the wait and get on right away.
> 
> I can see a lot more potential for abuse and people would very quickly figure out to go first to an attraction means they can use the Fastpass line all day without ever waiting. It would satisfy the people who want the old GAC back because it would work the same way for them, either a little extra documentation on a card.
> 
> 
> I'm curious what parks do it the way you are suggesting and how you know it reduces abuse?
> The parks I have heard of are essentially doing the same procedure as WDW.
> They may have a bit different details, like Universal/IOA in Florida allow the guest to go right into their equivalent of Fastpass line if the wait is 20 minutes or less, but the basic process is very similar.
> 
> Do I think they will tweak WDW's DAS?
> Yes - once they have had it in use long enough to know what the effects of it are.
> 
> Do I think they will make major changes to it?
> No - this is not something they just pulled out of a hat 4 months ago. From what I have heard, they have been working on this for about 2 years. They have looked at east other parks are doing and have changed to a system that is very similar to what other similar parks are doing.
> 
> My impression of the DAS is that is sounds workable and fair. It will mean some people who didn't plan set all will have to do some planning and there will be people that it doesn't work as well for as the GAC did.
> But, GAC is gone and not coming back.
> 
> I go to WDW, not DL, but the programs at each coast should be similar.
> My DD has cerebral palsy and despite being in a wheelchair (she can't walk at all), she still gets very fatigued and has low stamina. Her muscle tone goes from Barbie doll stiff to rag doll.
> She has sensory issues that make waiting in some lines very difficult for her - they are too noisy, too busy and too much going on. Then , she has to contend either other guests in line who scoot by her wheelchair, pass things over her head to their friends in line and sometimes let their toddlers sit on her feet because her footrest is perfect chair height for a 2 year old.
> She is obsessive compulsive about certain things, like people possibly touching her backpack. She can have meltdowns when she is at her limit (with pinching (mostly me) - we understand that she has 'hit the wall' and needs to be removed. She takes a time out until she is calmed down. A kid in meltdown is not in a frame of mind yo enjoy anyway from my point of view.
> She understands, but can't talk, so if something is wrong, we often have to play 20 questions to figure out what it is. That can get frustrating to all of us, but when she is frustrated, she can't listen anymore or communicate and all we get is 'no, no, all finished' signed to us.
> 
> Our bathroom stops may take an hour (with waiting for the restroom we need) and lunch can take an hour extra because we have to feed her. And, if she has seizure or gets to a point where her day is over because she can't keep her trunk up in her wheelchair any more, her day might be over.
> 
> But, this all our life and we cope with it. Because she is a young adult, we have had lots of experience coping with it, but we do cope and make adjustments all the time.
> Sometimes, it means one of us going to First Aid to put her for a rest out of her wheelchair. Sometimes it means one or all of us going back to the room.
> Some days it means me or DH coming to the park at opening so we can ride the things she can't.
> 
> We did use the GAC,  but  we used it pretty much the way they are suggesting using DAS. We planned ahead of time which park to go to based on which was least likely to be busy. We choose attractions that had the shortest wait times and used Fastpass as much as possible. We saved the GAC for those attractions that she could  not do without it. And, did not feel bad using it for things where we had an extra wait because we need the wheelchair accessible car.
> 
> So, for us, DAS will be pretty much the same as what we were doing. Of course, it will take some getting used to - it is different, but different doesn't necessarily mean bad, just different.


Of course it would be at each attraction, but these CMs are already there, hence the savings. (The Kiosks cost a minimum of $6,000 a day to run, that is assuming 3.5 CMs per kiosk, the .5 representing the one that is the runner to GR, relieves people for breaks, etc. with a modest cost of $18 per hour per CM, which accounts for pay, benefits, etc. and an average of 12 operating hours per day with a total of 8 kiosks. This doesn't count the additional kiosks added during busier times, electricity, the physical costs of the kiosks, etc.)

Basically it would be the first CM you speak with at each attraction or in other words, the one that tells you where to go and the time would be based off the current wait time. All they need to do is when you get in line, write down the time & date you entered the line, the current posted wait time and the time the card will next be valid at. One CM can write down all of this information when you get in line. This accounts for the time that you wait in that line automatically.

As I said, other local theme parks, Universal Studios Hollywood and Sea World San Diego in particular, started with Return Time passes and ran into a lot of the issues we are already seeing at Disneyland, so they moved to the system that I am suggesting.

Now, granted, neither park has a FP system, but both have a paid front of the line system. So, yes there would need to be something done about that portion. I am not saying that my system wouldn't have issues like this to be worked out, it would, but ultimately it would eliminate the issues that we have seen creep up so far.

Some of the issues with the current system are:

A lot of extra walking for people with disabilities. Yes, others can get return times, but at DL, many people come by themselves.
Kids that have disabilities to where they don't understand going to the attraction, but not riding and then coming back. (This is more at WDW)
What happens when the wait time would mean that the park will be closed before your return time? Someone else can still get in the standby line at this time, but those who need assistance cannot, making the system not equal. Bottom line is if the point is to make the waits equal, they need to be completely equal.
If you are unable to ride an attraction or no longer feel like riding that attraction, your wait time starts over, even if you have waited the entire length of the standby line.
The current system does not take into account the waiting you do once you get back to the attraction and at several attractions, that wait time could be longer than the standby line was, meaning you have to wait double the length of everyone else.
The current system is not preventing long backups in the accessible queues.

As to how I know it reduces abuse, there's the fact that these parks have said as much in conversations that I have had with their offices. Can you tell that I am one to take an active roll in getting what I need? But in this case, I was just letting them know how well the system worked out. But beyond that, when they used Return Times, I would wait substantially longer when returning, due to more people using the system than I do with the system they have in place now. And I have seen many other similar reports.

Universal Studios Hollywood has the most sophisticated system. There is a scanner when you first get in line, the CM scans the card, the display lights up green if you are good to go and red if you need to wait longer. If it turns red, it displays what time the pass will be valid at, the CM can choose to override it, if they think there is a reason to do so though, for example, I have seen it be a 5 minute difference for someone and the CM will override it. If the screen displays green, it will display what the next time the card will be valid at is. And yes, the standard practice at all parks, aside from Disney seems to be that when the wait is 20 minutes or less, they don't worry about it.

This system would naturally disperse those needing assistance, to where there shouldn't be long backups. If they found long backups on particular attractions were still happening, they could come up with alternatives for those.

Another option that may address many of these concerns is to offer a Smartphone App that can scan the QR code on the DAS and assign return times, eliminating the need to walk all the way to the attraction or kiosk. Of course they would need physical Kiosks that could do the same thing as well, but these could even be Kiosks that double up with the FP+ kiosks at WDW and ones that are unstaffed or have minimal staffing at DL.

But the point is, that there are indeed a few issues that are not being addressed by the current system at present. Perhaps there are tweaks that they can make to address these issues and still use the return times, or they can go to a system like the one I suggested, yes as pointed out, with FP available, they would need to make some tweaks to the concept, but it can be done.

Don't get me wrong, overall, I am glad that Disney is making a change, it has been needed for a very long time, all of us who need the assistance know this much. But there are issues that still need to be ironed out and these are issues that many of us could have told them would occur prior to the roll out, which means that they should have been able to figure out that these issues would occur and plan for how to combat them. But they didn't, which means, they either didn't think it through all the way or simply didn't care about these issues, which are actually a very big deal for many people. I am definitely not saying that they should go back to the GAC, I am all for waiting my fair turn, but I am also for complete equality to those who do not need assistance. This includes things like not needing to do extra walking. For those in ECVs, the extra distance is even more problematic, as there is limited battery power available and again if they are by themselves, then what do they do?

That being said, for the style in which I tour the parks, getting a return time pass doesn't affect me all that much, because I tend to do a ride that would have a return time, then a show, then maybe a ride that wouldn't have a return time, then maybe another one that does and at DL, chances are I would pass a kiosk somewhere after my initial return time. But there are issues that I take with the current system that need to be addressed in some manner. My solution addresses all of them, but I am sure it is not the only solution out there. My point when saying write to Disney is that we do get a say, express your concerns, point out what's not working and if you like my suggested method, please tell them. And no system is going to be perfect, but what I suggested was based off of my experiences at various parks.

Hopefully this makes sense, I have written it in bits and pieces when I get a break at work. So if something doesn't seem to flow, hopefully you can understand why.


----------



## disney david

cmwade77 said:


> Of course it would be at each attraction, but these CMs are already there, hence the savings. (The Kiosks cost a minimum of $6,000 a day to run, that is assuming 3.5 CMs per kiosk, the .5 representing the one that is the runner to GR, relieves people for breaks, etc. with a modest cost of $18 per hour per CM, which accounts for pay, benefits, etc. and an average of 12 operating hours per day with a total of 8 kiosks. This doesn't count the additional kiosks added during busier times, electricity, the physical costs of the kiosks, etc.)
> 
> Basically it would be the first CM you speak with at each attraction or in other words, the one that tells you where to go and the time would be based off the current wait time. All they need to do is when you get in line, write down the time & date you entered the line, the current posted wait time and the time the card will next be valid at. One CM can write down all of this information when you get in line. This accounts for the time that you wait in that line automatically.
> 
> As I said, other local theme parks, Universal Studios Hollywood and Sea World San Diego in particular, started with Return Time passes and ran into a lot of the issues we are already seeing at Disneyland, so they moved to the system that I am suggesting.
> 
> Now, granted, neither park has a FP system, but both have a paid front of the line system. So, yes there would need to be something done about that portion. I am not saying that my system wouldn't have issues like this to be worked out, it would, but ultimately it would eliminate the issues that we have seen creep up so far.
> 
> Some of the issues with the current system are:
> 
> [*]A lot of extra walking for people with disabilities. Yes, others can get return times, but at DL, many people come by themselves.
> [*]Kids that have disabilities to where they don't understand going to the attraction, but not riding and then coming back. (This is more at WDW)
> [*]What happens when the wait time would mean that the park will be closed before your return time? Someone else can still get in the standby line at this time, but those who need assistance cannot, making the system not equal. Bottom line is if the point is to make the waits equal, they need to be completely equal.
> [*]If you are unable to ride an attraction or no longer feel like riding that attraction, your wait time starts over, even if you have waited the entire length of the standby line.
> [*]The current system does not take into account the waiting you do once you get back to the attraction and at several attractions, that wait time could be longer than the standby line was, meaning you have to wait double the length of everyone else.
> [*]The current system is not preventing long backups in the accessible queues.
> 
> 
> As to how I know it reduces abuse, there's the fact that these parks have said as much in conversations that I have had with their offices. Can you tell that I am one to take an active roll in getting what I need? But in this case, I was just letting them know how well the system worked out. But beyond that, when they used Return Times, I would wait substantially longer when returning, due to more people using the system than I do with the system they have in place now. And I have seen many other similar reports.
> 
> Universal Studios Hollywood has the most sophisticated system. There is a scanner when you first get in line, the CM scans the card, the display lights up green if you are good to go and red if you need to wait longer. If it turns red, it displays what time the pass will be valid at, the CM can choose to override it, if they think there is a reason to do so though, for example, I have seen it be a 5 minute difference for someone and the CM will override it. If the screen displays green, it will display what the next time the card will be valid at is. And yes, the standard practice at all parks, aside from Disney seems to be that when the wait is 20 minutes or less, they don't worry about it.
> 
> This system would naturally disperse those needing assistance, to where there shouldn't be long backups. If they found long backups on particular attractions were still happening, they could come up with alternatives for those.
> 
> Another option that may address many of these concerns is to offer a Smartphone App that can scan the QR code on the DAS and assign return times, eliminating the need to walk all the way to the attraction or kiosk. Of course they would need physical Kiosks that could do the same thing as well, but these could even be Kiosks that double up with the FP+ kiosks at WDW and ones that are unstaffed or have minimal staffing at DL.
> 
> But the point is, that there are indeed a few issues that are not being addressed by the current system at present. Perhaps there are tweaks that they can make to address these issues and still use the return times, or they can go to a system like the one I suggested, yes as pointed out, with FP available, they would need to make some tweaks to the concept, but it can be done.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, overall, I am glad that Disney is making a change, it has been needed for a very long time, all of us who need the assistance know this much. But there are issues that still need to be ironed out and these are issues that many of us could have told them would occur prior to the roll out, which means that they should have been able to figure out that these issues would occur and plan for how to combat them. But they didn't, which means, they either didn't think it through all the way or simply didn't care about these issues, which are actually a very big deal for many people. I am definitely not saying that they should go back to the GAC, I am all for waiting my fair turn, but I am also for complete equality to those who do not need assistance. This includes things like not needing to do extra walking. For those in ECVs, the extra distance is even more problematic, as there is limited battery power available and again if they are by themselves, then what do they do?
> 
> That being said, for the style in which I tour the parks, getting a return time pass doesn't affect me all that much, because I tend to do a ride that would have a return time, then a show, then maybe a ride that wouldn't have a return time, then maybe another one that does and at DL, chances are I would pass a kiosk somewhere after my initial return time. But there are issues that I take with the current system that need to be addressed in some manner. My solution addresses all of them, but I am sure it is not the only solution out there. My point when saying write to Disney is that we do get a say, express your concerns, point out what's not working and if you like my suggested method, please tell them. And no system is going to be perfect, but what I suggested was based off of my experiences at various parks.
> 
> Hopefully this makes sense, I have written it in bits and pieces when I get a break at work. So if something doesn't seem to flow, hopefully you can understand why.



I am not sure that figure right that seems high but if that what Disney wants why fight it. You have people who would be not happy if they removed the kiosk and you had to go to each attraction. Plus Disney can bring down the cost right now it my be high due to it being new. I am sure mr iger happy your thinking of his bottom line but sometimes spending money is worth it.


----------



## Aladora

disney david said:


> I am not sure that figure right that seems high but if that what Disney wants why fight it. You have people who would be not happy if they removed the kiosk and you had to go to each attraction. Plus Disney can bring down the cost right now it my be high due to it being new. I am sure mr iger happy your thinking of his bottom line but sometimes spending money is worth it.



I would really love it if we had the option of either going to the kiosk OR the attraction.

Every time we have gone to ride RSR, we have used the same terminology with our son. "Let's go see what time we can get to ride RSR!" That idea works for him so we get the RT and go find something else to do. Going up to a kiosk with so many choices is going to be a bit of a challenge for him.

I am really interested in the potential changes that are going to happen between now and when our next trip is.


----------



## disney david

Aladora said:


> I would really love it if we had the option of either going to the kiosk OR the attraction.
> 
> Every time we have gone to ride RSR, we have used the same terminology with our son. "Let's go see what time we can get to ride RSR!" That idea works for him so we get the RT and go find something else to do. Going up to a kiosk with so many choices is going to be a bit of a challenge for him.
> 
> I am really interested in the potential changes that are going to happen between now and when our next trip is.



Yeah I am sure it get better I just don't think we should be trying to find ways to save Disney money. If they are spending 6000 a day on them we should be happy that they are willing to do it for guest who need it. Once a little whole goes by I am sure the coast  will go down as less cms my be needed. Then they can move them to other areas to help. Maybe they find a cm at each attraction that can answer questions and double check the  times is needed.


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## cmwade77

disney david said:


> I am not sure that figure right that seems high but if that what Disney wants why fight it. You have people who would be not happy if they removed the kiosk and you had to go to each attraction. Plus Disney can bring down the cost right now it my be high due to it being new. I am sure mr iger happy your thinking of his bottom line but sometimes spending money is worth it.


Hey, I figure use the bottom line to get the system fixed and the number is actually low. On average right now, most kiosks seem to have 5-6 people at them. I am averaging 3.5 as the final number, a 12 hour day is on the low end, I am only using 8 Kiosks, when there are 10 during busier times and the cost to disney of $18/hr/cm is an average, but by all accounts would be at the lower end (remember, multiple the pay rate by 2 to come up with the actual labor cost to the company, assuming even just $9 per hour, which I know they get more than that would result in $18/hr), so yes, my number is low.

As I said, I am not really looking to save money, that is a bonus as far as I am concerned, but I am not above using it to try to fix the problems that have arisen so far.

But, the other problem that I can foresee with spending $6,000 a day on this is that it is not sustainable in the long term. This works out to about 2.2 million dollars a year.

My fear is that if they leave the system in place as it stands now, chances are they will close some of the kiosks, for at least part of the time and reduce others to 1 person at any given time in order to save money, resulting in long waits and larger distances needing to be traveled to get a return time. This is another reason why I do try to look at what the costs would be when thinking about a solution to the issues.

Now, if the modified it to go to the kiosk or the attraction, that would help, but it certainly won't solve everything.


----------



## disney david

cmwade77 said:


> Hey, I figure use the bottom line to get the system fixed and the number is actually low. On average right now, most kiosks seem to have 5-6 people at them. I am averaging 3.5 as the final number, a 12 hour day is on the low end, I am only using 8 Kiosks, when there are 10 during busier times and the cost to disney of $18/hr/cm is an average, but by all accounts would be at the lower end (remember, multiple the pay rate by 2 to come up with the actual labor cost to the company, assuming even just $9 per hour, which I know they get more than that would result in $18/hr), so yes, my number is low.
> 
> As I said, I am not really looking to save money, that is a bonus as far as I am concerned, but I am not above using it to try to fix the problems that have arisen so far.
> 
> But, the other problem that I can foresee with spending $6,000 a day on this is that it is not sustainable in the long term. This works out to about 2.2 million dollars a year.
> 
> My fear is that if they leave the system in place as it stands now, chances are they will close some of the kiosks, for at least part of the time and reduce others to 1 person at any given time in order to save money, resulting in long waits and larger distances needing to be traveled to get a return time. This is another reason why I do try to look at what the costs would be when thinking about a solution to the issues.
> 
> Now, if the modified it to go to the kiosk or the attraction, that would help, but it certainly won't solve everything.



Yes Disney listen when it comes to money but once they get it moving they can bring down labor. If they put a kiosk in each land that has attractions it might save them money. If they train all the cms in that land to work it which will be helpfully in how they handle them at each attraction. Then you can rotate them and might wind up using  less or at least get better use out of them.   When it very busy I think Disney will have to just but re bullet and put extra cms at each attraction and kiosk to ease the lines.

In Disney world when they came out with RFID turn styles they found they needed to put a guest service cms their to help. With people having problems with their tickets until they came out with a way to over ride the system. But they spent the extra money to keep them their for awhile so they will spend the money if they see a need or until they can come up with something better. 


I know once RFID comes out to dl and is fully rolled out in wdw that would save money die to them being able to use computers so less cms. Now they can put your photo and return time on your ticket and the attraction cms can scan them at the fast pass plus line be able to see the photo and make sure the return time right. That way you won't have guest trying to write the return times them selves and using less cms for the system. Because they can use self service touch screens with maybe one to two cms when busy.


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## Jperiod

I've been here since Saturday and half the kiosks only have one person (and thankfully only one, maybe two families ahead of me). The busier ones like the information boards, fantasy land, and paradise pier I've seen 2-3.  It would be much better if they had one in each land. I wouldn't want to backtrack through critter country, frontier, or toon town. 

Just counted on our card, we've only had 16 RTs and didn't make 3 of those.


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## OurBigTrip

cmwade77 said:


> Of course it would be at each attraction, but these CMs are already there, hence the savings. (The Kiosks cost a minimum of $6,000 a day to run, that is assuming 3.5 CMs per kiosk, the .5 representing the one that is the runner to GR, relieves people for breaks, etc. with a modest cost of $18 per hour per CM, which accounts for pay, benefits, etc. and an average of 12 operating hours per day with a total of 8 kiosks. This doesn't count the additional kiosks added during busier times, electricity, the physical costs of the kiosks, etc.)
> 
> Basically it would be the first CM you speak with at each attraction or in other words, the one that tells you where to go and the time would be based off the current wait time. All they need to do is when you get in line, write down the time & date you entered the line, the current posted wait time and the time the card will next be valid at. One CM can write down all of this information when you get in line. This accounts for the time that you wait in that line automatically.
> 
> As I said, other local theme parks, Universal Studios Hollywood and Sea World San Diego in particular, started with Return Time passes and ran into a lot of the issues we are already seeing at Disneyland, so they moved to the system that I am suggesting.
> 
> Now, granted, neither park has a FP system, but both have a paid front of the line system. So, yes there would need to be something done about that portion. I am not saying that my system wouldn't have issues like this to be worked out, it would, but ultimately it would eliminate the issues that we have seen creep up so far.
> 
> Some of the issues with the current system are:
> 
> A lot of extra walking for people with disabilities. Yes, others can get return times, but at DL, many people come by themselves.
> Kids that have disabilities to where they don't understand going to the attraction, but not riding and then coming back. (This is more at WDW)
> What happens when the wait time would mean that the park will be closed before your return time? Someone else can still get in the standby line at this time, but those who need assistance cannot, making the system not equal. Bottom line is if the point is to make the waits equal, they need to be completely equal.
> If you are unable to ride an attraction or no longer feel like riding that attraction, your wait time starts over, even if you have waited the entire length of the standby line.
> The current system does not take into account the waiting you do once you get back to the attraction and at several attractions, that wait time could be longer than the standby line was, meaning you have to wait double the length of everyone else.
> The current system is not preventing long backups in the accessible queues.
> 
> As to how I know it reduces abuse, there's the fact that these parks have said as much in conversations that I have had with their offices. Can you tell that I am one to take an active roll in getting what I need? But in this case, I was just letting them know how well the system worked out. But beyond that, when they used Return Times, I would wait substantially longer when returning, due to more people using the system than I do with the system they have in place now. And I have seen many other similar reports.
> 
> Universal Studios Hollywood has the most sophisticated system. There is a scanner when you first get in line, the CM scans the card, the display lights up green if you are good to go and red if you need to wait longer. If it turns red, it displays what time the pass will be valid at, the CM can choose to override it, if they think there is a reason to do so though, for example, I have seen it be a 5 minute difference for someone and the CM will override it. If the screen displays green, it will display what the next time the card will be valid at is. And yes, the standard practice at all parks, aside from Disney seems to be that when the wait is 20 minutes or less, they don't worry about it.
> 
> This system would naturally disperse those needing assistance, to where there shouldn't be long backups. If they found long backups on particular attractions were still happening, they could come up with alternatives for those.
> 
> Another option that may address many of these concerns is to offer a Smartphone App that can scan the QR code on the DAS and assign return times, eliminating the need to walk all the way to the attraction or kiosk. Of course they would need physical Kiosks that could do the same thing as well, but these could even be Kiosks that double up with the FP+ kiosks at WDW and ones that are unstaffed or have minimal staffing at DL.
> 
> But the point is, that there are indeed a few issues that are not being addressed by the current system at present. Perhaps there are tweaks that they can make to address these issues and still use the return times, or they can go to a system like the one I suggested, yes as pointed out, with FP available, they would need to make some tweaks to the concept, but it can be done.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, overall, I am glad that Disney is making a change, it has been needed for a very long time, all of us who need the assistance know this much. But there are issues that still need to be ironed out and these are issues that many of us could have told them would occur prior to the roll out, which means that they should have been able to figure out that these issues would occur and plan for how to combat them. But they didn't, which means, they either didn't think it through all the way or simply didn't care about these issues, which are actually a very big deal for many people. I am definitely not saying that they should go back to the GAC, I am all for waiting my fair turn, but I am also for complete equality to those who do not need assistance. This includes things like not needing to do extra walking. For those in ECVs, the extra distance is even more problematic, as there is limited battery power available and again if they are by themselves, then what do they do?
> 
> That being said, for the style in which I tour the parks, getting a return time pass doesn't affect me all that much, because I tend to do a ride that would have a return time, then a show, then maybe a ride that wouldn't have a return time, then maybe another one that does and at DL, chances are I would pass a kiosk somewhere after my initial return time. But there are issues that I take with the current system that need to be addressed in some manner. My solution addresses all of them, but I am sure it is not the only solution out there. My point when saying write to Disney is that we do get a say, express your concerns, point out what's not working and if you like my suggested method, please tell them. And no system is going to be perfect, but what I suggested was based off of my experiences at various parks.
> 
> Hopefully this makes sense, I have written it in bits and pieces when I get a break at work. So if something doesn't seem to flow, hopefully you can understand why.



I'm all for automating it more and cutting down on the amount of walking that is necessary, but I admit to being confused by your plan.

If I go to a ride that has a 30 minute wait, under the current DAS, I would wait 20 minutes, return, ride and then go to the next ride, which has say a 60 minute wait, with a return time for 50 minutes later.

Under your system, if I understand it correctly, I would go the first ride, have the CM mark me down for a 30 minute wait (current wait time), ride and then go to the next ride, where I would wait 20 or 25 minutes to board.  But the second ride has a 60 minute wait, so I'm still not really waiting correctly for that ride.

As I said, maybe I misunderstood and you can help me understand.


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## cmwade77

OurBigTrip said:


> I'm all for automating it more and cutting down on the amount of walking that is necessary, but I admit to being confused by your plan.
> 
> If I go to a ride that has a 30 minute wait, under the current DAS, I would wait 20 minutes, return, ride and then go to the next ride, which has say a 60 minute wait, with a return time for 50 minutes later.
> 
> Under your system, if I understand it correctly, I would go the first ride, have the CM mark me down for a 30 minute wait (current wait time), ride and then go to the next ride, where I would wait 20 or 25 minutes to board.  But the second ride has a 60 minute wait, so I'm still not really waiting correctly for that ride.
> 
> As I said, maybe I misunderstood and you can help me understand.


Apparently I over complicated it, sorry.

Here is how it would work:
You go to Indiana Jones at Noon as your first ride, it has a 60 minute wait.
You show your card to the CM and the entrance, they would write down Noon as your arrival time, write down that there was a 60 minute wait and that 1 PM is the next available time.
At this point you go through the entrance as directed by the CM
Now, you get off the ride and out of the exit at 12:30.
You next want to go on Pirates, well, you can't with the pass until 1:00, so you can now go to an attraction that doesn't need the pass or whatever else you choose to do.
It's now 1:00, you head over to Pirates, you show your card at the entrance, it is a 60 minute wait, so the CM will write down the time you arrived, the wait time and say it will next be valid at 2:00 PM
The process would simply repeat throughout the day.

But this way, any time that you did wait in the accessible queue is accounted for.

And yes, there will be one ride of the day that you may not have waited the exact correct amount of time for. And, no you won't be waiting the correct amount of time in advance, instead it will be after the ride that you are waiting the correct amount of time, but overall throughout the day you will have waited the correct amount of time, minus that one ride.


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## cmwade77

Jperiod said:


> I've been here since Saturday and half the kiosks only have one person (and thankfully only one, maybe two families ahead of me). The busier ones like the information boards, fantasy land, and paradise pier I've seen 2-3.  It would be much better if they had one in each land. I wouldn't want to backtrack through critter country, frontier, or toon town.
> 
> Just counted on our card, we've only had 16 RTs and didn't make 3 of those.



Interesting, that was not my experience on Friday. But even with one per Kiosk, that is still about $2,000 per day, considering that there needs to me more than one person per kiosk to allow for breaks and such.


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## disney david

cmwade77 said:


> Interesting, that was not my experience on Friday. But even with one per Kiosk, that is still about $2,000 per day, considering that there needs to me more than one person per kiosk to allow for breaks and such.



How you figure they get paid 18 a hour and it cost 2,000 a day to run.


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## piratenightmares

cmwade77 said:


> Apparently I over complicated it, sorry.
> 
> Here is how it would work:
> You go to Indiana Jones at Noon as your first ride, it has a 60 minute wait.
> You show your card to the CM and the entrance, they would write down Noon as your arrival time, write down that there was a 60 minute wait and that 1 PM is the next available time.
> At this point you go through the entrance as directed by the CM
> Now, you get off the ride and out of the exit at 12:30.
> You next want to go on Pirates, well, you can't with the pass until 1:00, so you can now go to an attraction that doesn't need the pass or whatever else you choose to do.
> It's now 1:00, you head over to Pirates, you show your card at the entrance, it is a 60 minute wait, so the CM will write down the time you arrived, the wait time and say it will next be valid at 2:00 PM
> The process would simply repeat throughout the day.
> 
> But this way, any time that you did wait in the accessible queue is accounted for.
> 
> And yes, there will be one ride of the day that you may not have waited the exact correct amount of time for. And, no you won't be waiting the correct amount of time in advance, instead it will be after the ride that you are waiting the correct amount of time, but overall throughout the day you will have waited the correct amount of time, minus that one ride.



This is a very good way to do it. It's very fair. 

As for the comment about abuse of this system - it wouldn't be any different than the current system only you wait AFTER the ride instead of before it. I don't see how that would increase abuse any more than waiting before the ride. People would still have to wait the same length of time.

As cmwade77 mentioned, CM's are already at the ride directing traffic. It would be easy to have them mark the time for their ride (which they probably wouldn't have to look up on a device because they are RIGHT THERE at the ride). It seems like it would work smoothly without confusion and without having to walk back and forth to kiosks every time you ride. That would take us a LONG time. Even with a kiosk in every land I can't see how it is helpful or fair having people not only wait the time for the ride (which IS fair and I don't have an issue with) but the time (and physical effort) it takes to keep walking back to a kiosk.   

Also they can't predict how many people with a DAS will be queuing up to ride at any time even with these return times. They could have 15 DAS holders show up at Peter Pan and another 3 wheelchairs at the same time. That many groups waiting for Peter Pan is a nightmare (I've experienced it, and certain many others have as well). This doesn't seem any different from the GAS massive lines I encountered on some rides before. It was very noticeable on Space Mountain, Pirates and Peter Pan. 

This system might discourage some people from abuse but I think the people who abused it before will find a way to use it to their advantage again.  

It seems much better with cmwade77's suggestion because if the DAS line is long for something one could choose a different ride - after they wait their time - to find a DAS line they can handle instead of being forced into choosing a ride in advance.

If this DAS system is supposed to make things fair then every person who goes to Disneyland should have to make up their mind long before they want to ride something and couldn't change their minds along the way. They should also have to walk to a kiosk to tell someone what they want to ride next. It doesn't seem to be giving people with a DAS the same options as people without one.


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## cmwade77

disney david said:
			
		

> How you figure they get paid 18 a hour and it cost 2,000 a day to run.



I never said they get paid $18 an hour, I said that was what it costs Disney. This is a low number though. basically to calculate costs businesses take the salary cost and double it. So my number assumes they ate only paid $9 an hour, which is only $0.25 above minimum wage in California. 

They have 8 kiosks with at least 1.25 people at any time, remember there are runners that go to Guest Relations, people that take over for breaks, etc. With an average operating day of 12 hours for each kiosk. If you multiply it out, it comes out to a little over $2,000.


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## SueM in MN

Can we plea get back to how it is actually happening instead of people's plans for how to change it?


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## tinkerpea

SueM in MN said:


> I'm curious how you would propose they figure the next wait time?
> 
> If they set it based on what the current wait time was for the ride just ridden, they will still need staff to write down the time you got in line and assign next wait times.
> Instead of kiosks, it would have to be at the attraction, so I don't see any labor savings. In fact, it may cost more than kiosks at DL because there might need to be 2 CMs - one to sign cards for arrival time and one to assign return times (some attraction exit in a different spot).
> 
> For example, I rode Small World and waited 10 minutes for my first ride (because it took that long to walk from the entrance to board).
> When I get off, the wait at Small World is now 20 minutes, so after I have gotten off, I have to go to a CM at Small World to get a new time assigned. But, is it 20 minutes in the future that is the current wait or the 10 that I waited?
> And, that CM is also signing people in, so I'm sure they will get people saying, I got off 10 minutes ago, but I was waiting in line.
> And, will the person with the DAS who may not understand the process think they are going right back on the ride again because that was what happened the last time they checked in with a CM?
> 
> So, anyway, now I have a 20 minute wait time on my card. I decide to go to Splash Mountain, which currently has a 60 minute wait.
> It took me more than 20 minutes to walk there. When I arrive, I check in with the CM to get an arrival time and since my 'wait time' is over, I get right into the Fastpass line.
> 20 minutes later, I get off Splash Mountain and check in with the CM assigning return times. Since my wait in the Fastpass line was 10, the actual ride is 7 minutes send it took me 5 minutes to walk back to the time assigner CM, he puts a wait time of 22 minutes on my card.
> 
> So, in 22 minutes, I can go to any other attraction, no matter what the wait and get on right away.
> 
> I can see a lot more potential for abuse and people would very quickly figure out to go first to an attraction means they can use the Fastpass line all day without ever waiting. It would satisfy the people who want the old GAC back because it would work the same way for them, either a little extra documentation on a card.
> 
> I'm curious what parks do it the way you are suggesting and how you know it reduces abuse?
> The parks I have heard of are essentially doing the same procedure as WDW.
> They may have a bit different details, like Universal/IOA in Florida allow the guest to go right into their equivalent of Fastpass line if the wait is 20 minutes or less, but the basic process is very similar.
> 
> Do I think they will tweak WDW's DAS?
> Yes - once they have had it in use long enough to know what the effects of it are.
> 
> Do I think they will make major changes to it?
> No - this is not something they just pulled out of a hat 4 months ago. From what I have heard, they have been working on this for about 2 years. They have looked at east other parks are doing and have changed to a system that is very similar to what other similar parks are doing.
> 
> My impression of the DAS is that is sounds workable and fair. It will mean some people who didn't plan set all will have to do some planning and there will be people that it doesn't work as well for as the GAC did.
> But, GAC is gone and not coming back.
> 
> I go to WDW, not DL, but the programs at each coast should be similar.
> My DD has cerebral palsy and despite being in a wheelchair (she can't walk at all), she still gets very fatigued and has low stamina. Her muscle tone goes from Barbie doll stiff to rag doll.
> She has sensory issues that make waiting in some lines very difficult for her - they are too noisy, too busy and too much going on. Then , she has to contend either other guests in line who scoot by her wheelchair, pass things over her head to their friends in line and sometimes let their toddlers sit on her feet because her footrest is perfect chair height for a 2 year old.
> She is obsessive compulsive about certain things, like people possibly touching her backpack. She can have meltdowns when she is at her limit (with pinching (mostly me) - we understand that she has 'hit the wall' and needs to be removed. She takes a time out until she is calmed down. A kid in meltdown is not in a frame of mind yo enjoy anyway from my point of view.
> She understands, but can't talk, so if something is wrong, we often have to play 20 questions to figure out what it is. That can get frustrating to all of us, but when she is frustrated, she can't listen anymore or communicate and all we get is 'no, no, all finished' signed to us.
> 
> Our bathroom stops may take an hour (with waiting for the restroom we need) and lunch can take an hour extra because we have to feed her. And, if she has seizure or gets to a point where her day is over because she can't keep her trunk up in her wheelchair any more, her day might be over.
> 
> But, this all our life and we cope with it. Because she is a young adult, we have had lots of experience coping with it, but we do cope and make adjustments all the time.
> Sometimes, it means one of us going to First Aid to put her for a rest out of her wheelchair. Sometimes it means one or all of us going back to the room.
> Some days it means me or DH coming to the park at opening so we can ride the things she can't.
> 
> We did use the GAC,  but  we used it pretty much the way they are suggesting using DAS. We planned ahead of time which park to go to based on which was least likely to be busy. We choose attractions that had the shortest wait times and used Fastpass as much as possible. We saved the GAC for those attractions that she could  not do without it. And, did not feel bad using it for things where we had an extra wait because we need the wheelchair accessible car.
> 
> So, for us, DAS will be pretty much the same as what we were doing. Of course, it will take some getting used to - it is different, but different doesn't necessarily mean bad, just different.



I understand what your trying to say BUT the way Universals system works is way better for alot of people!
I fact nearly every park in the UK works like this apart from the fact you have to wait until the ride time from the 1st ride is up until you can go on the next one!
There are a few smaller non headliner rides where you can go straight on but this is because Q time is normally very little like 10 minutes.

I actually think that if Disney sees its not working for many and that people suggest they find Universals system more workable with the challenges the DAS gives they might tweak it!


----------



## tinkerpea

OurBigTrip said:


> I'm all for automating it more and cutting down on the amount of walking that is necessary, but I admit to being confused by your plan.
> 
> If I go to a ride that has a 30 minute wait, under the current DAS, I would wait 20 minutes, return, ride and then go to the next ride, which has say a 60 minute wait, with a return time for 50 minutes later.
> 
> Under your system, if I understand it correctly, I would go the first ride, have the CM mark me down for a 30 minute wait (current wait time), ride and then go to the next ride, where I would wait 20 or 25 minutes to board.  But the second ride has a 60 minute wait, so I'm still not really waiting correctly for that ride.
> 
> As I said, maybe I misunderstood and you can help me understand.



This is how it works in All the UK theme parks, yes you may get a time at 1 ride that says 20 then go to the next and that ride has a longer wait, BUT once your at that  ride the time written down to do the next ride would be the 60 mins for the ride your now going on, so it does equal its self out and you would wait the appropriate time in slightly different order.

Hope that makes sense


----------



## tinkerpea

cmwade77 said:


> Apparently I over complicated it, sorry.
> 
> Here is how it would work:
> You go to Indiana Jones at Noon as your first ride, it has a 60 minute wait.
> You show your card to the CM and the entrance, they would write down Noon as your arrival time, write down that there was a 60 minute wait and that 1 PM is the next available time.
> At this point you go through the entrance as directed by the CM
> Now, you get off the ride and out of the exit at 12:30.
> You next want to go on Pirates, well, you can't with the pass until 1:00, so you can now go to an attraction that doesn't need the pass or whatever else you choose to do.
> It's now 1:00, you head over to Pirates, you show your card at the entrance, it is a 60 minute wait, so the CM will write down the time you arrived, the wait time and say it will next be valid at 2:00 PM
> The process would simply repeat throughout the day.
> 
> But this way, any time that you did wait in the accessible queue is accounted for.
> 
> And yes, there will be one ride of the day that you may not have waited the exact correct amount of time for. And, no you won't be waiting the correct amount of time in advance, instead it will be after the ride that you are waiting the correct amount of time, but overall throughout the day you will have waited the correct amount of time, minus that one ride.



I'm totally with you on this! It's how I've tried to explain a better way for it to work for ages!!

As I've said in other posts all UK parks work this exact way and it works well!

It would cut the abuse just as the DAS will yet it will be a lot easier on the children/adults with autism as they don't go to the ride until its time to ride! No criss crossing or confusion.

I hope like you say if enough people find it the current DAS works for them, that they will look at how this could based on other parks..


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## SueM in MN

*If you want to talk about how you would change the Disney system, please start a new thread.

People are complaining to me that all this discussion about how some people would change the DAS is confusing to them when they are trying to figure out how it IS operating.

Any further suggestions about how people think Disney should change it that are posted this thread will be deleted.*


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## cmwade77

Ok, as requested, getting back to how this works for people:
Many people I have spoken with find the system to be decent, but find that they aren't able to stay in the parks add long, due to all of the extra walking. Those that use ECVs find that they can't spend as much time in the parks, due to limited battery power. 

Many locals are seeing a benefit to this, as it means they are spending less money in the parks.

Many of the nonlocals are getting frustrated because they spent good money to come out here and feel that it's been wasted. 

Then there are the people like me that don't go on a ton of rides, but do mostly shows and such with a few rides mixed in. For us the new system works really well, we just get a return time on our way to a show and it's generally time by the time we get out. 

Then there's the issue of consistency in how the new system is applied. It's really hard to talk about all of the ins and outs of the system when one CM says it works one way and another says the complete opposite. For example, I had one GR CM tell me that if my return time is ready and I am about to go on a ride that I can get a return time for the next ride, if it's wait time is an hour or longer. Some people have index been able to do this, but then others were told no.

Then if the return time would be after Park closing, some CMs will still give the return time, as they should of the standby line is still taking people, as that is what would be equal, but others will refuse.

Something that I mentioned before is that you can get a DAS at any of the kiosks, but you will have to wait for a CM to run and pick it up from Guest Relations. I figure this is worth mentioning again, as it is different from what we originally thought was going to happen. The CM that issued mine did tell me that if the kiosks remain, they will eventually have printers at all of them, most likely by the peak of Christmas season. 

Attractions with stairs have been refusing to allow people to bypass them without a DAS, wheelchair or ECV. Even people with canes and walkers were told they had to do the stairs if they didn't have a DAS, I wouldn't have believed it if I didn't hear it with my own two ears. And guest Relations says that you don't need a DAS to bypass the stairs. Same goes for any queues that are not mainstreamed and if someone can't use the regular queue due to turnstiles, low lighting, etc. 

I witnessed the same behavior of CMs at WOC and Aladdin. I am not saying this will happen to everyone, just that it's what I saw and heard happening when I was there. 

For certain attractions people with DAS cards have had to wait at least double the length of the standby line, due to the number of wheelchairs there at the time they came back. 

You generally have to start your wait time over again if you choose not to ride something, even though this wouldn't generally happen if you waited physically through the entire length of the standby line and had to leave for some reason. 

When I went to get my DAS, there was no one there, but it was at a kiosk that wasn't even on the list. The lady did give me a bit of a hard time initially, but I explained all of my needs and there was no issue after that. The odd thing though wad that she said they will reevaluate the needs every 14 days and basically if they don't think you need a DAS, they may not give you a new one.

I have listed a lot of issues, but they are important to know, so that we know what kinds of difficulties we may run into when we get there. 

That being said, you can make the system work, with a bit of planning, even if you like to tour commando style. 

Here is what Disney has told me to do to minimize waits (their words, not mine, I didn't even ask how to minimize waits with the system, they volunteered and this was a Disney executive):
1. Always have an active return time on your pass. 
2. Always have a valid FP
3. If eligible use FP+ (wdw only right now)
4. Always have a Return Time card for an attraction that doesn't have mainstream access (obviously this applies mostly to Disneyland) - you can good one of these, even if you have an active return time on your DAS.

These were their instructions and if you follow them, you really shouldn't generally have any long waits for attractions, except the ones that have anyways had issues. It does require some placing to determine which option you should use for which attractions to minimize the extra walking and keep your wait times down. You can also come up with a touring plan to help further minimize waits. 

This is planning that any other guest could do with the tools available to them as well. 

So far these have been the experiences of people that I know and myself.


----------



## piratenightmares

SueM in MN said:


> Can we plea get back to how it is actually happening instead of people's plans for how to change it?



We aren't allowed to discuss our thoughts about it? I have some complaints too but I think people have the right to state their opinions if they are being polite about it. What confuses ME is many threads about the same issue. 

I suggest then, people who don't know how it IS operating don't answer questions when people ask about things.


----------



## mrsksomeday

piratenightmares said:


> We aren't allowed to discuss our thoughts?



This is an informational thread. She stated if we wanted to talk about how things should be different start another thread.


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## piratenightmares

mrsksomeday said:


> This is an informational thread. She stated if we wanted to talk about how things should be different start another thread.



I read what was said. I was simply stating my opinion. I explained that many threads about different aspects of the same issue confuse me. I was responding to her comment. 

EDIT: I apologize for causing people confusion by stating my opinions in regard to things not relevant to this thread. And even though I have very good reason for posting and asking questions in this thread, I won't do it again.


----------



## Paula Sedley-Burke

I have been very keenly reading this thread so thank you all! I think I am getting the facts now! I think ( I hope ) I just realised the bit I was missing filled in by the helpful example by pp and the Pirates as first ride. Let me see if my understanding is correct..  If I have a DAS when I go to my first ride the CM writes down the wait time in my card but I ride the ride straight away? It's there after I wait for the next ride as if I have waited in line for the first ride? The process repeats through the day? I thought you get to the first ride then have to kick your heels and wait the wait time until you can ride it.   I hope my understanding of the facts are correct.


----------



## tinkerpea

SueM in MN said:


> If you want to talk about how you would change the Disney system, please start a new thread.
> 
> People are complaining to me that all this discussion about how some people would change the DAS is confusing to them when they are trying to figure out how it IS operating.
> 
> Any further suggestions about how people think Disney should change it that are posted this thread will be deleted.



In all fairness you keep saying we are not allowed to start a thread about our opinions on how we would rather it worked! 
I won't respond on this thread again!
SORRY


----------



## SueM in MN

Paula Sedley-Burke said:


> I have been very keenly reading this thread so thank you all! I think I am getting the facts now! I think ( I hope ) I just realised the bit I was missing filled in by the helpful example by pp and the Pirates as first ride. Let me see if my understanding is correct..  If I have a DAS when I go to my first ride the CM writes down the wait time in my card but I ride the ride straight away? It's there after I wait for the next ride as if I have waited in line for the first ride? The process repeats through the day? I thought you get to the first ride then have to kick your heels and wait the wait time until you can ride it.   I hope my understanding of the facts are correct.


No, that is the prior poster's SUGGESTION of a DIFFERENT way for Disney to handle guests with disabilities.

That is I have asked the thread to get back to HOW it works, not how people would change it. I was getting PMs from people asking the same question and asking why I had not changed post 1 because they thought the SUGGESTIONS were how it IS working.

This is how DAS works:

Only 1 (one) Return Time can be written on the DAS at a time, which puts the DAS holder into a virtual 'standby queue'.
- Just like a guest actually standing in a standby queue, the DAS holder can't be in multiple standby queues at the same time. 
- Just like a guest actually standing in a standby queue, the DAS holder can also get Fastpasses using the Fastpass System.
Once the Return Time has arrived, the DAS holder and their group go to the Fastpass or alternate entrance to redeem the Return TIme
- just like Fastpass, you won't be able to come earlier than the Return TIme
- CM will check the Return Time, look at picture on the DAS card and confirm that the DAS holder is going to ride/experience the attraction
- the Return TIme will remain active until it is used (you won't lose your spot if late
When a Return Time has been redeemed, it is crossed off and is no longer active.
- crossing off a Return Time also voids or cancels it and is the same as getting out of line
- when a DAS Holder has no active Return Times to redeem, they can get a new Return TIme
- a DAS holder can choose to cancel a DAS Return TIme
If an attraction is broken or not in operation, there is no current standby time and the DAS holder will not be able to get a Return Time.
UNCONFIRMED RUMOR, PROBABLY TRUE: If the DAS holder returns to an attraction and it is broken or not operating:
- a Fastpass to come back later will be given
- the DAS Return Time will be cleared, allowing the DAS holder to get another Return TIme
DAS holders will not be able to use DAS for Celebrity Autographs or most Character Meet & Greets (this is consistent with the way GACs worked)
DAS holders will be able to get Return Times for Character Meet & Greets that have Fastpass or Fastpass Plus


----------



## Paula Sedley-Burke

SueM in MN said:


> No, that is the prior poster's SUGGESTION of a DIFFERENT way for Disney to handle guests with disabilities.  That is I have asked the thread to get back to HOW it works, not how people would change it. I was getting PMs from people asking the same question and asking why I had not changed post 1 because they thought the SUGGESTIONS were how it IS working.  This is how DAS works:  Only 1 (one) Return Time can be written on the DAS at a time, which puts the DAS holder into a virtual 'standby queue'. - Just like a guest actually standing in a standby queue, the DAS holder can't be in multiple standby queues at the same time. - Just like a guest actually standing in a standby queue, the DAS holder can also get Fastpasses using the Fastpass System. Once the Return Time has arrived, the DAS holder and their group go to the Fastpass or alternate entrance to redeem the Return TIme - just like Fastpass, you won't be able to come earlier than the Return TIme - CM will check the Return Time, look at picture on the DAS card and confirm that the DAS holder is going to ride/experience the attraction - the Return TIme will remain active until it is used (you won't lose your spot if late When a Return Time has been redeemed, it is crossed off and is no longer active. - crossing off a Return Time also voids or cancels it and is the same as getting out of line - when a DAS Holder has no active Return Times to redeem, they can get a new Return TIme - a DAS holder can choose to cancel a DAS Return TIme If an attraction is broken or not in operation, there is no current standby time and the DAS holder will not be able to get a Return Time. UNCONFIRMED RUMOR, PROBABLY TRUE: If the DAS holder returns to an attraction and it is broken or not operating: - a Fastpass to come back later will be given - the DAS Return Time will be cleared, allowing the DAS holder to get another Return TIme DAS holders will not be able to use DAS for Celebrity Autographs or most Character Meet & Greets (this is consistent with the way GACs worked) DAS holders will be able to get Return Times for Character Meet & Greets that have Fastpass or Fastpass Plus


oh I see I am so sorry Sue I didn't realise it was a suggestion. Please accept my apologise.


----------



## IndianaPrincess

Is there a list of which rides do not have accessible line queues at disneyland?


----------



## IndianaPrincess

I am sitting in room after our first day - spent entirely at DL. I wanted to let everyone know that the high staffing levels of rollout are gone. After being so frustrated numerous times at rides because we couldn't figure out what to do or where to go, I said something at the kiosk. The CM told me that they had tons of extra workers last week but now it was just normal staff levels. I'm spoiled by disneyworld where there are cast members all over. So my tip is to ask for the return location of the ride when you get a return time. 

Besides that, it worked okay for us. For sure did less than we would have with GAC, had one major meltdown, and there is no doubt that you actually wait longer... But it did work for us. We'll be here another 3 days if anyone has a specific question. 

Oh I also asked about the getting a second return time if you are about to go on one and there's a long long wait... That was a no go. Just one at a time.


----------



## Jperiod

IndianaPrincess said:


> I am sitting in room after our first day - spent entirely at DL. I wanted to let everyone know that the high staffing levels of rollout are gone. After being so frustrated numerous times at rides because we couldn't figure out what to do or where to go, I said something at the kiosk. The CM told me that they had tons of extra workers last week but now it was just normal staff levels. I'm spoiled by disneyworld where there are cast members all over. So my tip is to ask for the return location of the ride when you get a return time.
> 
> Besides that, it worked okay for us. For sure did less than we would have with GAC, had one major meltdown, and there is no doubt that you actually wait longer... But it did work for us. We'll be here another 3 days if anyone has a specific question.
> 
> Oh I also asked about the getting a second return time if you are about to go on one and there's a long long wait... That was a no go. Just one at a time.



There is usually a CM always at the entrance or exit of every ride and they should know where to direct you. If able-bodied and there is a FP line, it's usually to that. If there isn't, it's usually the exit. Hope the rest of your stay is better! We just drove home yesterday and looking forward to our trip in another 2 months! I hope the December crowds are lighter and we'll definately hit rope drop to avoid excessive waits!

If you need accessibility for a chair, I believe city hall has a printed guide of where to go for each ride.


----------



## IndianaPrincess

Jperiod said:


> There is usually a CM always at the entrance or exit of every ride and they should know where to direct you. If able-bodied and there is a FP line, it's usually to that. If there isn't, it's usually the exit. Hope the rest of your stay is better! We just drove home yesterday and looking forward to our trip in another 2 months! I hope the December crowds are lighter and we'll definately hit rope drop to avoid excessive waits!
> 
> If you need accessibility for a chair, I believe city hall has a printed guide of where to go for each ride.



Our issue with this is we have no idea where the exits are! It's kinda funny to watch us roam around but seriously the exits aren't on the map anywhere.

It was so crowded yesterday. I'm looking forward to tomorrow when it's suppose to lighten way up. We're doing dCA today for the first time ever!!! So excited!


----------



## cmwade77

IndianaPrincess said:
			
		

> Our issue with this is we have no idea where the exits are! It's kinda funny to watch us roam around but seriously the exits aren't on the map anywhere.
> 
> It was so crowded yesterday. I'm looking forward to tomorrow when it's suppose to lighten way up. We're doing dCA today for the first time ever!!! So excited!



The guidebook for guests with disabilities does a pretty good job of describing where the exits are for most attractions, at least it used to.


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## Paula Sedley-Burke

For those that get a DAS and are in a wheelchair or mobility device like myself as I have additional needs outside my mobility why I cannot stand in line...do you use the DAS card for a return time at the wheelchair entrance of a ride like Great Thunder Mountain or get a return time card? Tia.


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## cmwade77

Big Thunder Mountain is currently closed for a major rehab and by all accounts will be a mainstreamed queue when it reopens. The DAS is not used at attractions that don't have a  mainstream queue.  These attractions give out return time cards instead, even to those with DAS cards or so my experience has been so far. Alternatively, you can choose to get a FP where available and not need to get a Return Time card if you show up within the hour Window.


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## Paula Sedley-Burke

cmwade77 said:


> Big Thunder Mountain is currently closed for a major rehab and by all accounts will be a mainstreamed queue when it reopens. The DAS is not used at attractions that don't have a  mainstream queue.  These attractions give out return time cards instead, even to those with DAS cards or so my experience has been so far. Alternatively, you can choose to get a FP where available and not need to get a Return Time card if you show up within the hour Window.


thank you. I just realised this is DL thread sorry! I meant at WDW but I guess the same would apply!


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## KPeveler

cmwade77 said:


> Big Thunder Mountain is currently closed for a major rehab and by all accounts will be a mainstreamed queue when it reopens. The DAS is not used at attractions that don't have a  mainstream queue.  These attractions give out return time cards instead, even to those with DAS cards or so my experience has been so far. Alternatively, you can choose to get a FP where available and not need to get a Return Time card if you show up within the hour Window.



You can definitely get a DAS time for any attraction with a wait of over 10 (or sometimes 15) minutes.  I have received times for queues that are mainstreamed and ones that are not.

If you have a DAS and a wheelchair, then you cannot wait for certain non-mainstreamed attractions (9 of them right now) without getting a return ticket.  

For example, I can get a time for Indy (not mainstreamed) but I am not allowed to go to Jungle Cruise while I am waiting - I need to get a wheelchair return time for Jungle Cruise.  

As I have said before, the DAS has been okay, but the wheelchair return times are too difficult for those of us going solo in a manual chair.  You are not allowed to get a wheelchair return time at kiosks, only a DAS return time.  So I wheel to Jungle Cruise, get a time, and then I am told to come back later.  Well, I can only push myself around so much, so I end up not going anywhere.  And that is happening more and more - there is a group of people with chairs who are waiting for their time.  And rarely is there enough room for us.

This is one of many issues Disneyland must resolve as the system evolves - the wheelchair return time must be fixed!


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## sammatt

KPeveler said:


> As I have said before, the DAS has been okay, but the wheelchair return times are too difficult for those of us going solo in a manual chair.  You are not allowed to get a wheelchair return time at kiosks, only a DAS return time.  So I wheel to Jungle Cruise, get a time, and then I am told to come back later.  Well, I can only push myself around so much, so I end up not going anywhere.  And that is happening more and more - there is a group of people with chairs who are waiting for their time.  And rarely is there enough room for us.
> 
> This is one of many issues Disneyland must resolve as the system evolves - the wheelchair return time must be fixed!



Wow, that sounds very  frustrating and exhausting. 
We are traveling with my daughter, who uses a wheelchair, this weekend. Can you confirm which attractions are handing out the return time cards for wheelchairs?


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## cmwade77

KPeveler said:
			
		

> You can definitely get a DAS time for any attraction with a wait of over 10 (or sometimes 15) minutes.  I have received times for queues that are mainstreamed and ones that are not.
> 
> If you have a DAS and a wheelchair, then you cannot wait for certain non-mainstreamed attractions (9 of them right now) without getting a return ticket.
> 
> For example, I can get a time for Indy (not mainstreamed) but I am not allowed to go to Jungle Cruise while I am waiting - I need to get a wheelchair return time for Jungle Cruise.
> 
> As I have said before, the DAS has been okay, but the wheelchair return times are too difficult for those of us going solo in a manual chair.  You are not allowed to get a wheelchair return time at kiosks, only a DAS return time.  So I wheel to Jungle Cruise, get a time, and then I am told to come back later.  Well, I can only push myself around so much, so I end up not going anywhere.  And that is happening more and more - there is a group of people with chairs who are waiting for their time.  And rarely is there enough room for us.
> 
> This is one of many issues Disneyland must resolve as the system evolves - the wheelchair return time must be fixed!


Hmm, that is not what I was told when I got my DAS, they basically said if the attraction gives out return time cards, you will use that, the DAS was only for the
Attractions that don't have return time cards. 

I am also curious what does someone do for jungle Cruise, if they can't do stairs and the line is going up stairs?


----------



## KPeveler

cmwade77 said:


> Hmm, that is not what I was told when I got my DAS, they basically said if the attraction gives out return time cards, you will use that, the DAS was only for the
> Attractions that don't have return time cards.
> 
> I am also curious what does someone do for jungle Cruise, if they can't do stairs and the line is going up stairs?



If you cannot do stairs, and the upper level queue is open, you must either get a wheelchair return time (which means going to the ride and then leaving and then coming back) or get a DAS return time.

I have gotten a Das return time for Star Tours (accessible queue to a point), Buzz Lightyear (accessible queue), Space Mountain (non accessible queue), Haunted Mansion (right now, FP queue to a point for wheelchairs), and Peter Pan (non accessible queue)

So they will give a DAS for anything with a wait long enough, because technically DAS trumps the wheelchair return time - that is, a DAS holder would go in as soon as possible, even if there are people with wheelchair return cards waiting.  This is because people with the DAS may not be able to tolerate the place where the wheelchair return line is.

As of now, you can hold a DAS and wheelchair return time at the same time (not against the rules). You can also hold more than one wheelchair return time at once (also something they are looking at how to fix).


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## KPeveler

sammatt said:


> Wow, that sounds very  frustrating and exhausting.
> We are traveling with my daughter, who uses a wheelchair, this weekend. Can you confirm which attractions are handing out the return time cards for wheelchairs?



I can only tell you of the 8 I know of, and this may change.  I would count on it being the big 9.

Space Mountain
Jungle Cruise
Indiana Jones
Pirates
Haunted Mansion
Splash Mountain
Small World
Peter Pan

I am not sure about any others, though perhaps Roger Rabbit.

I was also told that an able bodied member of the group MAY be allowed to go get a wheelchair return time, so long as the person with the visual cue (you daughter) is there when you return to ride.  This was written into the rules for the DAS, but not the wheelchair return tickets - I guess they just did not think of it.  

There is no end time on the wheelchair return tickets, so after parades, fireworks, shows, etc, the return line can be quite long - avoid going back at these times.

It is rather annoying, and I expect the system to be changing as they figure out what works and what does not (like I should be able to get a wheelchair return time at a kiosk, rather than needing to wheel all the way to the ride, only to be told to go away).  

This system does not exist in DCA as everything is mainstreamed.


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## sammatt

Thank you so much Katy!!


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## IndianaPrincess

Our trip is over.  The DAS was okay. It was tough but we managed. There was only one time that I was upset and driven to tears. Ill come back later with more of the trip, but my biggest complaint is that the kiosks are too few and far between. My break down point was in front of Goofy's coaster with the heat beating down and thinking about having to go back to the Fantasyland kiosk with that up and down path.


----------



## cmwade77

IndianaPrincess said:
			
		

> Our trip is over.  The DAS was okay. It was tough but we managed. There was only one time that I was upset and driven to tears. Ill come back later with more of the trip, but my biggest complaint is that the kiosks are too few and far between. My break down point was in front of Goofy's coaster with the heat beating down and thinking about having to go back to the Fantasyland kiosk with that up and down path.


Um, I'm guessing you mean gadgets coaster. Goofy's is in DCA. But this is exactly the attraction that I was thinking was going to be problematic. But I would love to hear more about your actual experiences.


----------



## KPeveler

IndianaPrincess said:


> Our trip is over.  The DAS was okay. It was tough but we managed. There was only one time that I was upset and driven to tears. Ill come back later with more of the trip, but my biggest complaint is that the kiosks are too few and far between. My break down point was in front of Goofy's coaster with the heat beating down and thinking about having to go back to the Fantasyland kiosk with that up and down path.



I totally agree, and I think there should be a kiosk in Toontown AND critter country.  Both require going under the train tracks, which means a non ADA hill - they are too steep.  Yes, there is an attempt made for toontown but it is most often used for stroller parking.  If nothing else, attractions in this area should be allowed to give times at the attraction.  Because there is no way I can go back and forth from Splash to the kiosk and back just for Winnie the Pooh.  What ends up happening is we skip things.

I am working on a very long letter to Disneyland with my experiences.  I am going to DCA tomorrow or the day after, since all my experience has been in DL so far, not in DCA.  I have heard plenty of stories, but I want personal experience before writing to them.

I am also hoping to get a better email to write to as opposed to just filling out the form online.

The DAS is less the problem I have - it is the fact there are two new system colliding at attractions and they are just plain overwhelmed. 

There are several ways to work on this (end times for wheelchair return tickets, so there is a steadier flow, something special for people needing wheelchair vehicles so the attractions people know what is coming, etc)

I would like, eventually, to be able to get a second DAS time after the first DAS time has arrived.  This means I will have waited the whole first time, but then I can get a new Return Time if I happen to be passing a cart, rather than doubling back.  I would get my return time for Winnie the Pooh AND Splash before going up and down hills in my manual chair.  That would allow people who still need to wait for their own reasons (recovering from heat, meltdown, etc) to keep the time they waited on the card.

There are times that I get a time for Space Mountain, but something happens that when my time arrives, I am not able to ride right then.  Maybe my stomach is giving me problems, but I cannot get a time to go on a tamer ride, like Buzz Lightyear without losing all the time I waited for Space Mountain.  It is very frustrating.

I know this is off topic, I was just hoping to get some DL goer reaction to this idea.  WDW and DL are so different, the system will have to be changed a little to accommodate each park.


----------



## Jperiod

I sent my letters yesterday. The lack of kiosks was one of the things I mentioned as well as the additional FP or accessible line waits, and my son's problems with planning what he wants to do 60-90 minutes from now.


----------



## cmwade77

KPeveler said:
			
		

> I totally agree, and I think there should be a kiosk in Toontown AND critter country.  Both require going under the train tracks, which means a non ADA hill - they are too steep.  Yes, there is an attempt made for toontown but it is most often used for stroller parking.  If nothing else, attractions in this area should be allowed to give times at the attraction.  Because there is no way I can go back and forth from Splash to the kiosk and back just for Winnie the Pooh.  What ends up happening is we skip things.
> 
> I am working on a very long letter to Disneyland with my experiences.  I am going to DCA tomorrow or the day after, since all my experience has been in DL so far, not in DCA.  I have heard plenty of stories, but I want personal experience before writing to them.
> 
> I am also hoping to get a better email to write to as opposed to just filling out the form online.
> 
> The DAS is less the problem I have - it is the fact there are two new system colliding at attractions and they are just plain overwhelmed.
> 
> There are several ways to work on this (end times for wheelchair return tickets, so there is a steadier flow, something special for people needing wheelchair vehicles so the attractions people know what is coming, etc)
> 
> I would like, eventually, to be able to get a second DAS time after the first DAS time has arrived.  This means I will have waited the whole first time, but then I can get a new Return Time if I happen to be passing a cart, rather than doubling back.  I would get my return time for Winnie the Pooh AND Splash before going up and down hills in my manual chair.  That would allow people who still need to wait for their own reasons (recovering from heat, meltdown, etc) to keep the time they waited on the card.
> 
> There are times that I get a time for Space Mountain, but something happens that when my time arrives, I am not able to ride right then.  Maybe my stomach is giving me problems, but I cannot get a time to go on a tamer ride, like Buzz Lightyear without losing all the time I waited for Space Mountain.  It is very frustrating.
> 
> I know this is off topic, I was just hoping to get some DL goer reaction to this idea.  WDW and DL are so different, the system will have to be changed a little to accommodate each park.



There is a thread on ideas to improve the DAS, I suggest posting this in there to demonstrate some of the issues.


----------



## Paula Sedley-Burke

I am almost sure of the answer to this is no but just in case I missed something. Is there anyway to pre apply for the DAS? With the temporary disabled parking permit I get for Orlando ( I am from the UK and they kindly issue a US one after seeing my UK one which is great )  I can apply for this ahead of time to save going to the office and a drive ( and the time it takes ) . Nothing like this?


----------



## gee1209

So sorry if this question was asked already but I can't find the answer.  We are arriving in one week and staying in Epcot area hotel.  I would like to request a gac the first night of arrived at the back entrance of Epcot so that the first day we can eliminate this process.  If not perhaps I can go to mk entrance.   This will be around 7:00pm.  Thx !


----------



## SueM in MN

Paula Sedley-Burke said:


> I am almost sure of the answer to this is no but just in case I missed something. Is there anyway to pre apply for the DAS? With the temporary disabled parking permit I get for Orlando ( I am from the UK and they kindly issue a US one after seeing my UK one which is great )  I can apply for this ahead of time to save going to the office and a drive ( and the time it takes ) . Nothing like this?


No.
You can't apply ahead of time. 
DAS cards are only given at the theme parks and the person applying for DAS has to be with you.


gee1209 said:


> So sorry if this question was asked already but I can't find the answer.  We are arriving in one week and staying in Epcot area hotel.  I would like to request a gac the first night of arrived at the back entrance of Epcot so that the first day we can eliminate this process.  If not perhaps I can go to mk entrance.   This will be around 7:00pm.  Thx !


You posted on the Disneyland thread - a Epcot has a back entrance with a Guest Relations kiosk. No one has reported getting one there so I am not sure if they are issuing them.
The written information provided by Disney says "main entrance" ;it is unclear if that is considered a main entrance or not.


----------



## Paula Sedley-Burke

SueM in MN said:


> No. You can't apply ahead of time. DAS cards are only given at the theme parks and the person applying for DAS has to be with you.  You posted on the Disneyland thread - a Epcot has a back entrance with a Guest Relations kiosk. No one has reported getting one there so I am not sure if they are issuing them. The written information provided by Disney says "main entrance" ;it is unclear if that is considered a main entrance or not.


thank you for your reply.


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## IndianaPrincess

I'm at a keyboard now, so I can go into more detail about things.

Getting the DAS was simple for us (I was not worried at all). I followed the advice here and didn't even mention any of his conditions. I just explained his issues with the line queues. We got the DAS card and a stroller as wheelchair tag. 

***TIP*** Put the tag on the side or top of the stoller. She put ours on the back and it became annoying to have to keep swinging the stroller around to show to each CM.  The second day I got a new tag and made it visable from the front.

***Sidenote***  I can tell you they are not passing the DAS out like candy. There was an upset lady that barged in when I was getting one because she was denied and thought my CM would be better to ask. I have no idea her story as they shuffled her away.  Another time I stopped in to get a RT and the lady next to me was begging the CM to reconsider saying "You don't understand, I have to keep walking. I can't sit or stand so a wheelchair won't help me."  I felt so bad for her - glad that I didn't have an issue getting it.

***ANOTHER TIP***  As I just mentioned, you can get a RT at both guest service locations.  We would stop in as we entered the park for a RT and by the time we made it to the ride, it would be time to go on. It was a nice way to start the day.

It was so crowded this past weekend. I didn't expect it to be as bad as it was. We were overwhelmed trying to figure out where to go for things and what ride needed a wheelchair return pass and what needed a DAS and what was walk on (FYI nothing!) and so on. Oh and we just couldn't seem to figure out where to go when returning to rides. It was a hot mess. You have to remember that we aren't DL regulars, so I have the disability map in one hand, the stroller in the other, three more kiddos to keep track of along with my hubby pushing my mother in law around in a wheelchair. I love the Disney theming, but I just wanted some big DAS ENTER HERE and WHEELCHAIR ENTER HERE signs. 

This really was not too big a deal, but for those not currently familiar with the parks... do yourself a favor and look over the map with an eye for where you will enter . Maybe even we can all pitch in to put together a cheat sheet. 

***TIP*** When you get a RT at the kiosk, ask the CM for the exact location for where to go to use the pass at that ride. People can tell you that there will be CM at the ride, but many times we had trouble finding someone. 

Okay I have to take a break. I'll be back with more later.


----------



## cmwade77

We went to the parks yesterday and I thought I should post some updates, as there have been some improvements. 

First off, I had to renew my DAS, so I asked about some concerns that I had come up. 

The person that was helping was very nice and explained everything very well. 

There are tweaks being made, some are behind the scenes that you won't really know what they are doing, you will just see the results. Such as fixing long waits when you return to an attraction. 

Here is the official policy for return times near closing: they ask that you leave enough time to get from the kiosk to the attraction with 5 minutes to spare before closing and they will make the return time for 5 minutes before closing. 

For attractions like Pirates that end up with a long accessible queue, the official policy is that the DAS works like a FP for the accessible queue. You may have other DAS holders in front of you, but you are supposed to go ahead of others, as you have already waited. 

They are trying to figure out how to fix the extra traveling. They know they need more kiosks, but don't even currently have the manpower they need for the ones they have now, let alone more. Apparently the GR CMs are all working about 13 hour days and at least 6 days a week at that. Which I am sure is great for their wallets, but I have done that before and it is exhausting. So, please keep this in mind when you might get a CM who is a little less than enthusiastic. 

Somehow they have managed to fix the issue of waiting when returning. Even on racers we only had one wheelchair party in front of us and the queue was still a 90 minute wait. So, as far as wait times, it seems things are getting to be closer to equal. 

That being said, there were a couple of times that I looked at queues that were visible and did question if the posted wait times were accurate. One I thought the actual wait would have been longer than posted, most I think would have been shorter. So getting more accurate wait times is something that needs to happen.  But that is something that affects all guests. 

Overall, I would say this system has been an improvement so far, especially with the shorter lines when returning. But then again, I generally waited the length of the standby line before going to the next attraction with the old system anyway due to my needs, so what's really the difference if Disney is telling me I must wait or if it's my body telling me this?  Either way, it amounts it the same thing. So, this system means that given my needs and the shorter waits when returning, I can potentially do more attractions than with the GAC. But that is given my circumstances that I was waiting between attractions anyway, not because I wanted to, but because I had to. The new system just adds in Disney telling me I have to wait in addition to my body doing so. In my case the new system, aside from the extra traveling works better, especially now that they have found ways to fix the other issues that I had. 

 As I said the new system has some issues, less now than when the system started, but there is still at least the issue of extra traveling, Disney definitely is working on fixing them. Again, This has been backed up by actions. 

The biggest takeaway though was she did say that Disney is listening and that you should definitely use the website to provide feedback and be specific about what worked for you and what problems you may have encountered. And what she said has been backed up by actions, so it's not just lip service. 

Well, that and if you live near the parks and are looking for a job, it would probably be pretty easy to get over in GR right now.


----------



## ImTooExcitedToSleep

In case you missed it....


*Carol and Michael Bowling discuss their experience in the Parks after the implementation of DAS on this week's DIS Unplugged: Disneyland Edition podcast.*

_Download:_
10/24/13 DIS Unplugged: Disneyland Edition

_Listen directly:_
Disability Access Service


----------



## disney david

ImTooExcitedToSleep said:


> In case you missed it....
> 
> Carol and Michael Bowling discuss their experience in the Parks after the implementation of DAS on this week's DIS Unplugged: Disneyland Edition podcast.
> 
> Download:
> 10/24/13 DIS Unplugged: Disneyland Edition
> 
> Listen directly:
> Disability Access Service



Thanks Tom for the link did we forget jack burgin was also on the show.


----------



## SueM in MN

disney david said:


> Thanks Tom for the link did we forget bought  jack burgin was also on the show.


I listened and thought it was interesting. 
It sounded like mAny of the issues had to do with DL not having accessible lines. I believe one of the issues mentioned, people storing up attraction return times cards was being addressed now with those get ing a one hour window of time like Fastpass. (The report was from Halloween party first weekend of roll out).


----------



## disney david

SueM in MN said:


> I listened and thought it was interesting.
> It sounded like mAny of the issues had to do with DL not having accessible lines. I believe one of the issues mentioned, people storing up attraction return times cards was being addressed now with those get ing a one hour window of time like Fastpass. (The report was from Halloween party first weekend of roll out).



Yes It is and I think that why in dca where their lines are main stream their having a better time.  That the major difference in do vs wdw and even dca is the main stream lines where in the park that are main streamed it going  better. Maybe not perfect but I think their not running into as many problems as Disneyland.  A special event is sometimes hard to judge new programs either in dl and wdw.


I also think if and when dl get fast pass plus it going to take a long time to make all the ques main stream and hopefully help.


Another show would be nice once carol gets to try it again I also think if they could get someone who tried it in wdw to compare their experiences.


----------



## KPeveler

cmwade77 said:


> We went to the parks yesterday and I thought I should post some updates, as there have been some improvements.
> 
> First off, I had to renew my DAS, so I asked about some concerns that I had come up.
> 
> The person that was helping was very nice and explained everything very well.
> 
> There are tweaks being made, some are behind the scenes that you won't really know what they are doing, you will just see the results. Such as fixing long waits when you return to an attraction.
> 
> Here is the official policy for return times near closing: they ask that you leave enough time to get from the kiosk to the attraction with 5 minutes to spare before closing and they will make the return time for 5 minutes before closing.
> 
> For attractions like Pirates that end up with a long accessible queue, the official policy is that the DAS works like a FP for the accessible queue. You may have other DAS holders in front of you, but you are supposed to go ahead of others, as you have already waited.
> 
> They are trying to figure out how to fix the extra traveling. They know they need more kiosks, but don't even currently have the manpower they need for the ones they have now, let alone more. Apparently the GR CMs are all working about 13 hour days and at least 6 days a week at that. Which I am sure is great for their wallets, but I have done that before and it is exhausting. So, please keep this in mind when you might get a CM who is a little less than enthusiastic.
> 
> Somehow they have managed to fix the issue of waiting when returning. Even on racers we only had one wheelchair party in front of us and the queue was still a 90 minute wait. So, as far as wait times, it seems things are getting to be closer to equal.
> 
> That being said, there were a couple of times that I looked at queues that were visible and did question if the posted wait times were accurate. One I thought the actual wait would have been longer than posted, most I think would have been shorter. So getting more accurate wait times is something that needs to happen.  But that is something that affects all guests.
> 
> Overall, I would say this system has been an improvement so far, especially with the shorter lines when returning. But then again, I generally waited the length of the standby line before going to the next attraction with the old system anyway due to my needs, so what's really the difference if Disney is telling me I must wait or if it's my body telling me this?  Either way, it amounts it the same thing. So, this system means that given my needs and the shorter waits when returning, I can potentially do more attractions than with the GAC. But that is given my circumstances that I was waiting between attractions anyway, not because I wanted to, but because I had to. The new system just adds in Disney telling me I have to wait in addition to my body doing so. In my case the new system, aside from the extra traveling works better, especially now that they have found ways to fix the other issues that I had.
> 
> As I said the new system has some issues, less now than when the system started, but there is still at least the issue of extra traveling, Disney definitely is working on fixing them. Again, This has been backed up by actions.
> 
> The biggest takeaway though was she did say that Disney is listening and that you should definitely use the website to provide feedback and be specific about what worked for you and what problems you may have encountered. And what she said has been backed up by actions, so it's not just lip service.
> 
> Well, that and if you live near the parks and are looking for a job, it would probably be pretty easy to get over in GR right now.




I have found that if I plan carefully my Wheelchair Return Times (not DAS), I do not wait in long return lines.  If I do not plan carefully, then I do end up waiting in quite long lines.

The biggest problem they are running into on some attractions are the Wheelchair Accessible Vehicles - there are two Wheelchair Return attractions with a WAV - Small World and Jungle Cruise.  At about 1:45 yesterday, when I was leaving JC, the returnee line was backed up to the edge of the store.  It was so long, that the person handing out return times had to move to give it room!  It seemed a random time for such a long return line.

Part of the problem is that there were at least two parties waiting for the WAV, which I was already on.  That meant a longer wait for those two parties.  

I think there is a possibility that there will eventually be end-times for the WC Return Tickets, like FP (but perhaps with a longer window) so that way the queues do not get long at random times.  Also, this allows them to space out the people returning for the WAVs.  

This is going to be a major issue at Small World Holiday, when it is running at capacity from open to close.  The wheelchair boat lifts run on batteries, which do not last 12+ hour days if they are used every time around.  Usually they start with two boats, then alternate them as batteries start to die.  There is always (barring complications) a boat on, but not always both.  With the backups that always seem to happen, especially when you are loading and unloading the WAV every time, that means about a 20 minute cycle in Small World.  So I may get a wheelchair return time, wait my 2 hours (standard small world holiday waiting time), then go back, only to find out I STILL need to wait in a long line for another hour for the wheelchair boat!  

I am hoping this is something that, especially for the holiday attractions, they have end times.  A long enough window to allow for people to wheel back, especially with parades and such, but short enough to help spread out crowds.

The last 6-12 months of the GAC at RSR, we did not get a "come back after" time - we got a 1 hour window.  While that hour was very restricting, especially when dealing with multiple disabilities in our group, it DID help keep the wheelchair line from getting too long.

So yes, I have seen a marked improvement in the returnee wait times, but there is still much room for improvement.

The other thing that is true now that is frustrating is that to get a wheelchair return time, you must go to the wheelchair entrance.  With the Pirates and Mansion overflow lines, this means I had to wheel all the way PAST French Market and around the back by the bathrooms and down the hill to even get a Return Time for Pirates.  It would be nice if we could get WC times at attraction entrances as well - because I was wheeling a full 5-10 extra minutes up a steep hill and then up a gradual one, only to get a time for 60 minutes later - and the street was already full with other people in wheelchairs waiting for their time to arrive.  I counted no less than 5 parties just sitting by the exit, making a line nearly as long as was there before, which was confusing for some and made it hard to get to the place to get the silly ticket.

Does anyone know if I can get a Wheelchair Return Time for Splash at the Splash entrance, or do I have to go all the way up and down those hills of doom to get a ticket at the exit?  B/c those hills are NOT up to ADA standards, and it is unfair for me to be told to do it twice!  (manual wheelchair user traveling solo)


----------



## cmwade77

KPeveler said:
			
		

> I have found that if I plan carefully my Wheelchair Return Times (not DAS), I do not wait in long return lines.  If I do not plan carefully, then I do end up waiting in quite long lines.
> 
> The biggest problem they are running into on some attractions are the Wheelchair Accessible Vehicles - there are two Wheelchair Return attractions with a WAV - Small World and Jungle Cruise.  At about 1:45 yesterday, when I was leaving JC, the returnee line was backed up to the edge of the store.  It was so long, that the person handing out return times had to move to give it room!  It seemed a random time for such a long return line.
> 
> Part of the problem is that there were at least two parties waiting for the WAV, which I was already on.  That meant a longer wait for those two parties.
> 
> I think there is a possibility that there will eventually be end-times for the WC Return Tickets, like FP (but perhaps with a longer window) so that way the queues do not get long at random times.  Also, this allows them to space out the people returning for the WAVs.
> 
> This is going to be a major issue at Small World Holiday, when it is running at capacity from open to close.  The wheelchair boat lifts run on batteries, which do not last 12+ hour days if they are used every time around.  Usually they start with two boats, then alternate them as batteries start to die.  There is always (barring complications) a boat on, but not always both.  With the backups that always seem to happen, especially when you are loading and unloading the WAV every time, that means about a 20 minute cycle in Small World.  So I may get a wheelchair return time, wait my 2 hours (standard small world holiday waiting time), then go back, only to find out I STILL need to wait in a long line for another hour for the wheelchair boat!
> 
> I am hoping this is something that, especially for the holiday attractions, they have end times.  A long enough window to allow for people to wheel back, especially with parades and such, but short enough to help spread out crowds.
> 
> The last 6-12 months of the GAC at RSR, we did not get a "come back after" time - we got a 1 hour window.  While that hour was very restricting, especially when dealing with multiple disabilities in our group, it DID help keep the wheelchair line from getting too long.
> 
> So yes, I have seen a marked improvement in the returnee wait times, but there is still much room for improvement.
> 
> The other thing that is true now that is frustrating is that to get a wheelchair return time, you must go to the wheelchair entrance.  With the Pirates and Mansion overflow lines, this means I had to wheel all the way PAST French Market and around the back by the bathrooms and down the hill to even get a Return Time for Pirates.  It would be nice if we could get WC times at attraction entrances as well - because I was wheeling a full 5-10 extra minutes up a steep hill and then up a gradual one, only to get a time for 60 minutes later - and the street was already full with other people in wheelchairs waiting for their time to arrive.  I counted no less than 5 parties just sitting by the exit, making a line nearly as long as was there before, which was confusing for some and made it hard to get to the place to get the silly ticket.
> 
> Does anyone know if I can get a Wheelchair Return Time for Splash at the Splash entrance, or do I have to go all the way up and down those hills of doom to get a ticket at the exit?  B/c those hills are NOT up to ADA standards, and it is unfair for me to be told to do it twice!  (manual wheelchair user traveling solo)



If you have a DAS, you can get a DAS Return Time for these attractions. According to GR, the DAS return times take priority over the WC return times.

But this could cause even further delays for WC return times. I wonder if the solution for WAV vehicles would be to put return times with a window of time, but not base the return times on the standby line time, instead base it on how many how many outstanding return times for WAVs are currently issued. With an expiration time on them, that would be workable. I'd course at that point, there might need to be a rule that if you need the WAV, you can't use a DAS on that attraction. Luckily, the WAVs are only an issue on a handful of attractions.

As for small world, I was surprised that when we got the new boats that they didn't change the WAVs to match WDW, as they don't require any power to run. It might mean some modifications to the gates and loading area, but not too much and the long term cost savings would be work it.

For Splash, if you have a DAS, I would recommend getting a return time. If you don't have a DAS, there is a kiosk for return times at the exit of Mansion, I would suggest asking there if they might at least be able to run down and get a return time if you are by yourself, explaining the situation to them. Although for the rest of winter, you most likely could go down and get a return time, ride Winnie the Pooh and have it be about time to return.


----------



## lauraworth

"...Another time I stopped in to get a RT and the lady next to me was begging the CM to reconsider saying "You don't understand, I have to keep walking. I can't sit or stand so a wheelchair won't help me."  I felt so bad for her - glad that I didn't have an issue getting it."

Oh no! My father is in the same position, sure it would be great if he could "just get a wheelchair" as per Disney mobility issues policy but he must walk during the day & can't stand in 1 place so general cues were a no-no. It used to confuse the CMs under the GAC, we were hoping this unique issue would be covered in the new DAS program but it doesn't sound like it was. Does anyone know if there is a place to write into Disney & ask about a specific issue like this with regards to the DAS or are they only looking for feedback from people who have utilized the program?


----------



## KPeveler

lauraworth said:


> "...Another time I stopped in to get a RT and the lady next to me was begging the CM to reconsider saying "You don't understand, I have to keep walking. I can't sit or stand so a wheelchair won't help me."  I felt so bad for her - glad that I didn't have an issue getting it."
> 
> Oh no! My father is in the same position, sure it would be great if he could "just get a wheelchair" as per Disney mobility issues policy but he must walk during the day & can't stand in 1 place so general cues were a no-no. It used to confuse the CMs under the GAC, we were hoping this unique issue would be covered in the new DAS program but it doesn't sound like it was. Does anyone know if there is a place to write into Disney & ask about a specific issue like this with regards to the DAS or are they only looking for feedback from people who have utilized the program?



I know there is an email somewhere out there, but I do know you can ask questions on the Disneyland website - just go all the way to the bottom and look for the "Email us" page.

I will say this - I understand the need to move constantly, and renting a wheelchair for him does not mean he must sit in it at all times.  When I first had a chair I would walk some and push the chair empty.  I know he cannot sit all day, but I also assume he cannot continuously walk for 8-12 hours.  You may want to think about having the wheelchair there for him, not as a means of moving, but more as a "portable seat" so he has one ready wherever he is.


----------



## DisneyBiskit

Hi everybody....I just wanted to share my experience using the new DAS system.

Let me explain a bit about my situation.  I have back issues and when I go to DL, I usually wear some form of back support.  Walking is not the issue, its the constant stop and start again plus standing for long periods and I prefer not to do stairs.  I have used the GAC in the past and was concerned that I would not "qualify" for the new system.  They do have guidelines on who gets one and who doesn't.  While I was getting mine, a gentleman next to me with "pain issues" (his words, not mine) was denied a card.  I think it was because he was not specific enough, I dont know.

I decided to go to the Chamber of Commerce in DCA to get the card and I strongly advise that you do this as well.  There was no line as I walked up and this was a good hour after park opening.  I explained my situation and the CM seemed to think this new program would benefit me.  So she took my picture and it was printed on a DAS card with my name, dates I was going to be at the parks (actually she made it for a 2 week window since I'm an AP holder) and made it for 6 in my party (even though it was just 2).  What this card does is that I was able to go to designated kiosks spread throughout both parks and request a ride (any ride).  The CM would look up the wait time on their ipad and write down the current time and then the wait for that particular attraction minus 10 minutes.  Then I could go do anything else during this time (eat, shop, sit and relax) until it was time to go to that attraction.  Once there I was sent through the fastpass line or through a designated line.  I would show my card to the CM and they would cross off the ride from the list.  I was able to have one ride at a time on my card.  Which makes sense since it was treated like a fastpass, however I could go to the ride anytime after the time was up.  There was no "window" to go ride the ride.  Thats nice, but of course I couldn't get a new time on my card for a different ride until the current one was used or just crossed off because I changed my mind.

I know others were frustrated but this was a very positive experience for me.  I like that I never had to stand in a long line.  I was able to stay at the parks longer because I was not as tired.  All CMs were very friendly and there seemed to be some consistency on how to handle the DAS.  It proved invaluable on Saturday and Sunday when the parks were very full and at times hard to navigate.  I personally like this new system.  I think its fair and I never noticed an effect on the lines.  I'm happy to answer any questions I can.


----------



## KPeveler

I was in DCA today and I have confirmed at pretty much every show I have asked, as well as with Guest Relations - the DAS is effective for rides ONLY.  It will NOT give you alternate entrance/waiting area accommodations for shows.  I have asked at Fantasy Faire, Magical Map, and Aladdin.  I also have asked several Guest Relations people.

I cannot wait in the standard areas at many shows, especially Aladdin, as the queue is outdoors with little or no shade (among other issues).  After speaking to CMs at the show, and at Guest Relations, it was basically told to me that I would have to explain at the show why I could not wait in the standard waiting area, even though I have a DAS.  A "time" cannot be issued for a show.

This means that I need to check in at the show before the one I want to see, and explain my medical needs each time, sometimes to more than one person.  Simply having the DAS was not enough, I had to explain in detail my medical conditions, and there is no guarantee that they will make the "exception" for me, to allow me to wait elsewhere.   

As most of you probably know, for Aladdin, on a average Saturday we have to line up 90+ minutes early.  In fact, there is a line to get into the line.  I travel solo, or with other people with disabilities, so I cannot always have someone wait in the regular line for me.

Also, today I discovered that in DCA at least, when the wait is 10 minutes or less that I am to be directed through the regular queue, not sent through FP or exit, as Guest Relations told me.  Today I went to Screamin, with a wait time of 10 minutes.  Getting a RT is pointless, as it would be a 0 minute wait, and I was told simply to go to the line.  Screamin involves going slowly up ramps to the loading platform, stopping and starting.  As a solo manual wheelchair user, that is very difficult - stopping on a hill over and over.  It also still involved the back and forth lines, as well as stairs/elevator and a crowded "overpass."  It was not the wait that was the issue - it was the structure of the queue that I can see causing problems.  I know I was unable to do it - this just means I will always get a time for this attraction.

I just figured I would post this, as not everyone can wait in the standard queues, even if the wait is posted at 10 minutes.  Not only can the times be wrong, but it may be the sensory experience of the queue or some other reason why a person cannot use the standard queue.  I know people who use a DAS because of a mixture of disabilities that makes it unsafe for them to try to navigate the back-and-forth nature of the queue.

I was also told that the DAS would NOT grant entry to wheelchair viewing areas for Fantasmic, WOC, or parades.

Except for one or two people at the attractions, the Attractions CMs are really being very nice about all of it - but they can only do what they have the leeway to do.  For example, I was told today that I could use the "alternate" waiting area for Aladdin (the only safe place for me to wait), but as an exception.  They could not change the rule.

I have encountered more and more Guest Relations CMs who are "passing the buck" or flat out telling me there is nothing they can do.  I tell them that I do not expect the system to be fixed right away, but that I was giving feedback of an issue I encountered.  I did speak to one GR CM who was very polite and helpful, and she contacted her manager about the Aladdin issue.  It is generally a 60-90 minute wait outdoors in a jam-packed mob-like queue.  I can see how many people would have issues of some variety in this place.  

I am hoping that the system "evolves" quickly, but in general, I am able to do a fraction of what I used to do - and not because of the return waits, but because I have to wait an extra 30+ minutes on average after "waiting my turn."  I am also still getting a great deal of mixed signals when it comes to attractions and accommodations.


----------



## KPeveler

cmwade77 said:


> If you have a DAS, you can get a DAS Return Time for these attractions. According to GR, the DAS return times take priority over the WC return times.
> 
> But this could cause even further delays for WC return times. I wonder if the solution for WAV vehicles would be to put return times with a window of time, but not base the return times on the standby line time, instead base it on how many how many outstanding return times for WAVs are currently issued. With an expiration time on them, that would be workable. I'd course at that point, there might need to be a rule that if you need the WAV, you can't use a DAS on that attraction. Luckily, the WAVs are only an issue on a handful of attractions.
> 
> As for small world, I was surprised that when we got the new boats that they didn't change the WAVs to match WDW, as they don't require any power to run. It might mean some modifications to the gates and loading area, but not too much and the long term cost savings would be work it.
> 
> For Splash, if you have a DAS, I would recommend getting a return time. If you don't have a DAS, there is a kiosk for return times at the exit of Mansion, I would suggest asking there if they might at least be able to run down and get a return time if you are by yourself, explaining the situation to them. Although for the rest of winter, you most likely could go down and get a return time, ride Winnie the Pooh and have it be about time to return.



I have spoken to Attractions CMs, as well as been to the park more than 10 times since the new system was put in place.  There is only one attraction where I have seen DAS put ahead of WC return guests - Peter Pan.  And even that was not done regularly.  I also think I may have seen it happen once at Space Mountain, though I had a WC Return Time that time.

At other attractions - Mansion, Small World, and Jungle Cruise, Pirates, this is not being done, or at least never when I am there.  This is making it considerably more difficult to plan.  I even asked about it at Mansion and they simply shrugged.  It took 45 minutes (after we "waited our turn" for 90 minutes) to even get into the ride building.

There are more WAVs than people realize, as well as TAVs, which require me to wait for a ride car to come around.  WAVs exist on Buzz, Jungle Cruise (a WC return ride), Small World (also WC Return), and Winnie the Pooh.  There is also a TAV at Peter Pan, and essentially a WAV at Space Mountain - only one train is used for wheelchair using/disabled guests, which means we have to wait for it to cycle (with a limit of 12 people in each train).  The same is true for Mansion - wheelchair using guests are only allowed to use cars 129, 130, 1 and 2.  This means we are batch loaded, with only 3 wheelchairs allowed in the building at once - with a 20 minute cycle for each wheelchair (they need to completely leave the building, so Stretching Room time must be factored in).

It is more of an issue than I think the CMs thought it would be.  

I agree it is silly to keep the boats the way they did, but regardless, there will be a major problem when I get to Small World this holiday season.  It is always bad - add in the fact that Small World CMs will have almost no training time under the new system.  They had two non-busy weeks, when most people are not interested.

There needs to be end time for the wheelchair return times, period.  Right now, it is chaos at many of the attractions because no one knows when people are returning.  This means they get random long lines, with sometimes several people returning at once for the WAVs (actually, this happens to me more often than not - maybe I am just lucky).

I am not certain what will happen, but there will definitely need to be some changes.  Perhaps most frustrating is the lack of consistency in what I am being told.  I never know who has been told what, and it makes planning (something important with my needs) nearly impossible.


----------



## IndianaPrincess

KPeveler said:


> I just figured I would post this, as not everyone can wait in the standard queues, even if the wait is posted at 10 minutes.  Not only can the times be wrong, but it may be the sensory experience of the queue or some other reason why a person cannot use the standard queue.  I know people who use a DAS because of a mixture of disabilities that makes it unsafe for them to try to navigate the back-and-forth nature of the queue.
> 
> I have encountered more and more Guest Relations CMs who are "passing the buck" or flat out telling me there is nothing they can do.  I tell them that I do not expect the system to be fixed right away, but that I was giving feedback of an issue I encountered.



I apologize for cutting your quote - but these are the points where I want to hand you a megaphone and yell "PREACH IT".

My son does horrible in the queues for a couple reasons. I haven't gone into his conditions here as we are still playing the alphabet soup game (after 3 years, sigh).  I will say that one of his issues is OCD and one of his  compulsions is climbing. The GAC was great about giving an alternate entrance. We can wait - some people can't, but we can. But even 10 minutes in the normal line is exhausting for him and for us. 

When I asked at GR about this issue when getting the DAS, I was told to just ask a CM and they would help us out. Well it quickly became obvious that it was just not happening. The CM just would tell us where to go and didn't seem comfortable with anything outside the box of their DAS training. That one time that I was desperate and asked for a lead, it was a total and complete fail (I promise to come back with that story later!)  

We managed okay, like I said before. I do feel confident to say that if we known the GAC would be replaced with the current system, we would not have booked the trip. It is not magical to have to pry your kid off the bars, chains, wall, etc and constantly repeat get down, get down, get down, get down, get down, get down times 4 days. I'm sorry to any other guests he bothered in the lines. We did our best with what we had. That combined with the constant back and forth to the kiosks... blah... not as magical as I was hoping.


----------



## KPeveler

IndianaPrincess said:


> I apologize for cutting your quote - but these are the points where I want to hand you a megaphone and yell "PREACH IT".
> 
> My son does horrible in the queues for a couple reasons. I haven't gone into his conditions here as we are still playing the alphabet soup game (after 3 years, sigh).  I will say that one of his issues is OCD and one of his  compulsions is climbing. The GAC was great about giving an alternate entrance. We can wait - some people can't, but we can. But even 10 minutes in the normal line is exhausting for him and for us.
> 
> When I asked at GR about this issue when getting the DAS, I was told to just ask a CM and they would help us out. Well it quickly became obvious that it was just not happening. The CM just would tell us where to go and didn't seem comfortable with anything outside the box of their DAS training. That one time that I was desperate and asked for a lead, it was a total and complete fail (I promise to come back with that story later!)
> 
> We managed okay, like I said before. I do feel confident to say that if we known the GAC would be replaced with the current system, we would not have booked the trip. It is not magical to have to pry your kid off the bars, chains, wall, etc and constantly repeat get down, get down, get down, get down, get down, get down times 4 days. I'm sorry to any other guests he bothered in the lines. We did our best with what we had. That combined with the constant back and forth to the kiosks... blah... not as magical as I was hoping.



I completely agree.  I am having similar problems with the back and forth because I am a manual wheelchair user - and this means I need to get a return ticket to be able to get in line for some attractions.  There needs to be more kiosks, especially with Toontown.  But that is something I expect to see changing in the future - adding kiosks is easy.

The inconsistency and need to explain my medical needs to CM after CM is getting old fast.  And even when I have the DAS, they see only the wheelchair, tell me the queue is accessible, so I just go there.  I then have to ask what would they do if I walked up to them and said the same thing - and they always pause and think about it and say "we would accommodate your needs."  The wheelchair really throws them off.  

I do not mind the new system as a concept, but it is taking me 4-5 hours to ride 2 attractions (with wait times 10-15 mins for everything but racers yesterday).  That is NOT magical.


----------



## disney david

KPeveler said:


> I completely agree.  I am having similar problems with the back and forth because I am a manual wheelchair user - and this means I need to get a return ticket to be able to get in line for some attractions.  There needs to be more kiosks, especially with Toontown.  But that is something I expect to see changing in the future - adding kiosks is easy.
> 
> The inconsistency and need to explain my medical needs to CM after CM is getting old fast.  And even when I have the DAS, they see only the wheelchair, tell me the queue is accessible, so I just go there.  I then have to ask what would they do if I walked up to them and said the same thing - and they always pause and think about it and say "we would accommodate your needs."  The wheelchair really throws them off.
> 
> I do not mind the new system as a concept, but it is taking me 4-5 hours to ride 2 attractions (with wait times 10-15 mins for everything but racers yesterday).  That is NOT magical.



If the stand by 15 and your willing to wait and your in a wheelchair will they allow you. Or is they will give you a return time and won't let you wait in stand by because you have a das or in a wheelchair and they give a return time.


----------



## KPeveler

disney david said:


> If the stand by 15 and your willing to wait and your in a wheelchair will they allow you. Or is they will give you a return time and won't let you wait in stand by because you have a das or in a wheelchair and they give a return time.



Yes, I know what the rules are, but no one is following them.  And I am willing to wait, but I need to wait in a way that is safe for me.  There is huge inconsistency with who follows what rules and when.


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## disney david

KPeveler said:


> Yes, I know what the rules are, but no one is following them.  And I am willing to wait, but I need to wait in a way that is safe for me.  There is huge inconsistency with who follows what rules and when.



I wasn't saying that  wasn't following the rules i was just wondering I didn't mean to come off wrong I was not sure if your only choice was a return time. Yes Disney needs to get in too of that before then have another gac proem


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## KPeveler

disney david said:


> I wasn't saying that  wasn't following the rules i was just wondering I didn't mean to come off wrong I was not sure if your only choice was a return time. Yes Disney needs to get in too of that before then have another gac proem



Part of my problem is for the places where a return time is not appropriate - like the Aladdin show or when the wait is 10 minutes or less (meaning they will not issue a RT, since it would be for NOW).  They do not seem to get that the reason I have a DAS is less to do with the length of time waited and sometimes with the structure of the actual queue.

And they did not seem to get that I would need accommodations at Aladdin too - they just assumed my wheelchair was all I needed.  And I was told by them as well as Guest Relations that I would need to go early (like a couple hours before) and explain why I could not wait in the regular queue, and they would make arrangements for me.  But that meant I was explaining my medical needs to attractions CMs multiple times, and that is no fun.

Plus I do not always have the ability to go to places 2 hours before to check in, to leave, to go back.  They are going to have a lot of people with issues with this.  I have a DAS, I already explained my medical needs.  I should be able to show the DAS, with my picture on it, and explain that I cannot wait in the regular queue, what should I do?  And then the CM will give me the options.  Right now, when I did that, they told me I was out of luck - basically that I could not go watch one of my favorite shows.  Which is, of course, not acceptable.  

Hopefully these issues will be ironed out quickly.


----------



## cmwade77

KPeveler said:
			
		

> Part of my problem is for the places where a return time is not appropriate - like the Aladdin show or when the wait is 10 minutes or less (meaning they will not issue a RT, since it would be for NOW).  They do not seem to get that the reason I have a DAS is less to do with the length of time waited and sometimes with the structure of the actual queue.
> 
> And they did not seem to get that I would need accommodations at Aladdin too - they just assumed my wheelchair was all I needed.  And I was told by them as well as Guest Relations that I would need to go early (like a couple hours before) and explain why I could not wait in the regular queue, and they would make arrangements for me.  But that meant I was explaining my medical needs to attractions CMs multiple times, and that is no fun.
> 
> Plus I do not always have the ability to go to places 2 hours before to check in, to leave, to go back.  They are going to have a lot of people with issues with this.  I have a DAS, I already explained my medical needs.  I should be able to show the DAS, with my picture on it, and explain that I cannot wait in the regular queue, what should I do?  And then the CM will give me the options.  Right now, when I did that, they told me I was out of luck - basically that I could not go watch one of my favorite shows.  Which is, of course, not acceptable.
> 
> Hopefully these issues will be ironed out quickly.



Interesting, I was told by GR and a manager that for shows like Aladdin, you are supposed to show up at the appropriate time before the show, i.e. When most others would reasonably get there, show your DAS and let them know that you can't wait in the regular line. You may need to explain briefly why, but it shouldn't be as complicated as it is right now. 

That being said DW had an issue as well at Aladdin, so this is indeed an issue. If I were there, I would have asked for a lead and of that didn't do anything, then the area manager. If I still wasn't getting anywhere, I would continue up the chain until I got somewhere. I don't sit by and simply accept this when they are clearly wrong like this. I am sure others on here are the same. By the way once you start asking for area managers, they really stay taking notice, so long as you tried a lead first. 

Additionally, I would definitely suggest providing feedback to Disney on these issues via the website, the more that say something, the faster the problem will get fixed.


----------



## KPeveler

cmwade77 said:


> Interesting, I was told by GR and a manager that for shows like Aladdin, you are supposed to show up at the appropriate time before the show, i.e. When most others would reasonably get there, show your DAS and let them know that you can't wait in the regular line. You may need to explain briefly why, but it shouldn't be as complicated as it is right now.
> 
> That being said DW had an issue as well at Aladdin, so this is indeed an issue.



I spoke with a Guest Relations person and manager both tell me that the DAS does not apply to shows, only rides.  And the manager of Aladdin also told me that the DAS "did not work there" - and that I needed to go and explain my issues well ahead of time.

It was also confirmed the DAS would NOT give the holder and/or their party entry to the Wheelchair viewing areas for any parade or for Fantasmic or WOC.


----------



## cmwade77

KPeveler said:
			
		

> I spoke with a Guest Relations person and manager both tell me that the DAS does not apply to shows, only rides.  And the manager of Aladdin also told me that the DAS "did not work there" - and that I needed to go and explain my issues well ahead of time.
> 
> It was also confirmed the DAS would NOT give the holder and/or their party entry to the Wheelchair viewing areas for any parade or for Fantasmic or WOC.



Funny, with WOC, you are not able to use the benches without a DAS.

Aladdin requires a DAS to sit on the benches as well. 

At least this was our experience. It would not be equal to have to go far in advance to explain needs though, as no one else needs to show up two hours early. .

We shall see what happens next time that I go.


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## KPeveler

cmwade77 said:


> Funny, with WOC, you are not able to use the benches without a DAS.
> 
> Aladdin requires a DAS to sit on the benches as well.
> 
> At least this was our experience. It would not be equal to have to go far in advance to explain needs though, as no one else needs to show up two hours early. .
> 
> We shall see what happens next time that I go.



There was a report that got sent up the chain, so hopefully something can change.

I can only be outside in the heat (in SoCal, that is 9 months a year) for a short while due to medical issues.  So I will check in at an earlier show if I can, but then I go wait the rest of the time in the Animation Building or somewhere else Climate controlled.  

I did want to post that people at Fantasmic will NOT allow people into the area without a physical wheelchair, or perhaps other mobility equipment.  They are quite strict about it.  And a DAS will not get you into that area - especially since there are no benches in there, or usually are not.

I just wanted to post this, so people know that a DAS will not help with parade viewing, at least not without explaining everything, again, to people there.

Again, evolving system.  Hopefully things will get better.  I am sick of explaining my medical condition to everyone I meet!


----------



## cmwade77

KPeveler said:
			
		

> There was a report that got sent up the chain, so hopefully something can change.
> 
> I can only be outside in the heat (in SoCal, that is 9 months a year) for a short while due to medical issues.  So I will check in at an earlier show if I can, but then I go wait the rest of the time in the Animation Building or somewhere else Climate controlled.
> 
> I did want to post that people at Fantasmic will NOT allow people into the area without a physical wheelchair, or perhaps other mobility equipment.  They are quite strict about it.  And a DAS will not get you into that area - especially since there are no benches in there, or usually are not.
> 
> I just wanted to post this, so people know that a DAS will not help with parade viewing, at least not without explaining everything, again, to people there.
> 
> Again, evolving system.  Hopefully things will get better.  I am sick of explaining my medical condition to everyone I meet!



I don't blame you there. Oddly we have found that with the DAS, the only thing we have needed to explain is if we can do stairs or not and on RSR, DW and I need our own row and the friend we were with, her leg doesn't bend, so she needs the seat next to her leg to be empty. But we had to explain these with the GAC as well, because they were unique needs that are specific to certain attractions.


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## englishrose47

We used FP+ fo FOTLK and used the FP+ entrance as we were supposed to! Explained we were a group of 8 Developmentally disabled with 2escorts and had mobility and visual isues and needed floor seating. We were told we should have gone thru the w/c entrance , we pointed out we did not need wheelchairs just floor seating for 3 of out group. They lead us to a seat that was 2 steps up and the 3 all tripped !!! Oh yes I complained and yes I called Disney !! The answer ask for a manager immediately. I really think no one really knows what the new DAS means and is open to so many variiations , which hopefully will get  sorted out but as it stands now it is NOT meeting ADA regs , in that it is not providing equal access , as people with disabilities usually can't rush from one place to another to get another DAS or zoom across the Park for FP+ . I know that myself as a so called Non disabled in the same time frame I would have been able to access twice as many rides / attractions and I am 66 and arthritis has set in. So this tells the tale that DAS is not an equal paying field !


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## KPeveler

cmwade77 said:
			
		

> I don't blame you there. Oddly we have found that with the DAS, the only thing we have needed to explain is if we can do stairs or not and on RSR, DW and I need our own row and the friend we were with, her leg doesn't bend, so she needs the seat next to her leg to be empty. But we had to explain these with the GAC as well, because they were unique needs that are specific to certain attractions.



I expect that special circumstances need to be explained like my need to use the lower loading zone for RSR, or needing the transfer row of Screamin.

I do not expect when I try to access a queue such as at Aladdin to need to explain my medical condition all over again.  I show them the DAS and say I cannot access your standard queue.  I need to wait elsewhere and then when I come back, I am generally put to the side or in the VIP section.  It is not fair for me to be unable to wait in the regular queue and be stuck in the very very back of the line.  I will even get a DAS time for the next show so I am not "taking advantage."

But it is frustrating that I must explain my actual medical condition again.  Having the DAS and explaining what I need (climate controlled wait, or somewhere where I will not be trapped in a mob or whatever) should be sufficient.   I should not need to explain my diagnosis again.  Otherwise what is the point of  the DAS? 

Also I have heard a disturbing number of reports of people who have a wc or ECV and a DAS being spoken to unkindly or questioned by CMs - after they already have the DAS.  It was even suggested to my friend that only people who were somehow "lesser" got the DAS and then went on to suggest some very offensive reasons why a person would get the card.  Even I have had people make assumptions and comments.  If this happens to you please report the person.  It is unkind and unhelpful for this idea of either/or to keep going.  There are people who need both a mobility device and a DAS.

Mostly I need disney to recognize that  people with a DAS need alternate waiting options for shows as well as attractions, especially shows with limited times (Aladdin only happens 4 times a day).  I have a friend who has a deaf daughter and a DAS and wanted to use an alternate waiting area for Magical Map (not the mob area but the accessible queue) for many reasons, one of which was so that her daughter could sit in front and see as much as possible.  Supposedly needs like these are being handled at the shows on an individual basis but no one seems to know what to do, even when the person has a DAS. The DAS should have been sufficient to show the CM she had needs but again,  no one was helpful. 

 I think it has more to do with confusion and a lack of communication and clarity than any type of maliciousness.  Right now everyone seems to have been told something different and the CMs are as confused as the guests.  For the most part they are trying their best to make things work but it is requiring far more effort on the part of the guest with the disability than it used to - and more effort than an AB guest.  Other guests do not need to go a full show before and plan a half hour of their time to explain again why I have a DAS and why I will need a different waiting experience.    I should just be able to wait elsewhere like I did before with my DAS.   Like I said I would even get a time for the next Aladdin show on the DAS if that would help.

Also something happening now which I think will get better with time as opposed to how it is now - but something we guests with disabilities and a dAS need to plan for - the DAS is supposed to give priority upon return over other guests even if they had a wc return card.  This is just not happening.  In general those of us with a  DAS go in whatever returnee line there is (if there is not an accessible FP queue).  Most of the time this is because there is just not room or it is not logistically possible to separate people out.  So if you have a DAS and return to find a long returnee queue at an attraction,  I suggest asking a CM what happens because you have a DAS.  They may pull you out and put you on as soon as they can.  Or they may put you in the regular returnee line.  There have been times I have not left again and come back later when the returnee line was shorter.  

Unfortunately there is no consistency with regards to what attraction does what.  Again I believe this will get better with time, but I know it may cause an issue at the moment for some people.  Just wanted to give a heads up.

I love Disneyland , but honestly I almost feel like I am being punished for other people being stupid.  And that is very frustrating.   I wait the length of the standby line and then I am sent through FP?  That means I am waiting longer than everyone else every time.  It is no longer just a once in a while thing, where I wait longer than the posted standby time due to my disability.   It is happening every time.  And it is worse with DCA because they know that FP lines take time - and definitely longer than 10 minutes!

I am interested to hear the experiences of others when it comes to posted wait times under 10 minutes.  Are you being sent through the standard queue?  Or just being redirected through the exit/FP/alternate entrance?  If you cannot access the standard queue for whatever reason (especially if that is the reason you have the DAS) are the CMs working with you?  Or are you being told that you are out of luck?


----------



## IndianaPrincess

KPeveler said:


> I am interested to hear the experiences of others when it comes to posted wait times under 10 minutes.  Are you being sent through the standard queue?  Or just being redirected through the exit/FP/alternate entrance?  If you cannot access the standard queue for whatever reason (especially if that is the reason you have the DAS) are the CMs working with you?  Or are you being told that you are out of luck?



I am qualified to answer this. 

When I showed the DAS - sent to the standard queue.
When I tried to explain - sent to the standard queue.
When I showed the stroller as wheelchair tag - sent directly to the alternate entrance.

I wanted to add that we had trouble finding a CM to ask many, many times. Either we didn't know the correct place to look or there was no CM around.


----------



## cmwade77

Interesting, my experience with Pirates was that when returning, we did go to the front of the accessible lines. A friend in a wheelchair went straight to the front of the accessible line with her DAS at Small world when it was open as well. 

For Haunted Mansion, she had to wait for anyone that was already on the ramp, but was sent up the ramp to be the next one to go down. Ahead of those that were not yet queued up on the ramp. 

Another friend with a DAS, Walker and service animal returned to Space at the appropriate time and was sent down with the next group. This annoyed many in the accessible queue, but she went straight to the CM at the exit first to all where she was supposed to go and how long the wait might be. 

That being said, I think that on the attractions that have ADA vehicles (especially the ones that get baked up), they need to not worry about the length of the standby queue when handing out return time cards. Instead they should give the return time cards based on how many are out there already that need the accessible vehicle. Yes, the return time may sometimes be longer than the standby line at these attractions, but you would have a minimal wait when returning.

As for finding a CM, if i can't find one, I assume that I will go to the same location that I would have with the GAC.

I don't mind the idea that I will always wait because of using the FP at this point, mainly because they have been doing a better job at keeping the length of the queues down. For example at RSR, even with a 90 minute standby wait, there was about two parties in front of us in the FP queue, which took about a minute for them to go through and then there were two Wheelchair parties in front of us, which took about 10 minutes before we were boarding, if that.


----------



## LauraluvsDisney2

Just thought I would write up a brief overview of our experience with the DAS. 
We were at DLR for 5 days 10/23-10/27. We got the card at the DCA guest relations first thing on 10/23. There was not another person in there so it was pretty quick. I explained my sons needs and our concerns and they issued the DAS. One thing I didn't realize and maybe someone posted this but I missed it, our whole party had to be there for them to see and issue the party size on his card. This was a bit of a pain because my parents live in California and they were at work and weren't coming to the park until that evening. We had to go back to guest relations with them and get issued a new card that night, this would have really been a pain had there been a long line to wait in for the card but both times it was empty in there. Also we had to get a managers approval because with my parents we had 7 people and they only allow 6 people per card. They were very nice about it as was I. I just explained that it would really stink to leave one person out of every ride. However I don't really understand this rule, if we are waiting the wait time just in a separate area why are they limiting our party size? If we were waiting in the regular line we would all walk into the line together, we have to ride in separate cars usually and that's fine, so why would they make parties completely separate using this card? Just a thought I had. 
We had a good experience with the new system except for the kiosks. There are not enough of them and when you finish a ride in certain places you really have to trek a distance to get a new return time. I asked a few CM's and they said that they understand that problem and right now it is a staffing issue, so they are sympathetic but there is nothing they can do. Hopefully they can do something about that in the near future. 
The other issue we had was for certain rides like Peter Pan when it was our time to return the return line was at least 20 mins probably longer. We couldn't wait in that line plus it would have doubled our wait. I just went back to the kiosk and asked the CM to cross off the ride time and give us a new one because we could not wait in the return line. He was very helpful walked over to the ride with me to see what he could do. He got us a return ticket to go back to that ride anytime during the day when the return line was shorter. He explained to me that they understand with a few specific rides there is that problem and he says they are working on what to do for those situations. I planned on writing my feedback to disney and was going to mention this CM by name because I really feel he went above and beyond which was very different from a few other CMs we experienced. Most of them do understand there needs to be some fixes to this system and are very very nice. I did encounter one CM who was really quite rude but I won't go into that because that was not the norm.
Overall we had a great time and a good experience with the new system. It's definitely not as easy and takes some planning but by the second day I got a good feel for the system and we made it work great for us and just went with the flow and didn't stress about it even on the 2 really busy days we got a good amount of things done. 

I hope this helps, I really enjoyed this thread to prepare myself before the trip  so I thought I would leave my experience. I can elaborate more if anyone would like too I am typing this on my phone so I hope it makes sense haha.

Also we go back in Dec so I will write again if I notice any changes or improvements to the system by then.


----------



## SueM in MN

LauraluvsDisney2 said:


> Just thought I would write up a brief overview of our experience with the DAS.
> We were at DLR for 5 days 10/23-10/27. We got the card at the DCA guest relations first thing on 10/23. There was not another person in there so it was pretty quick. I explained my sons needs and our concerns and they issued the DAS. One thing I didn't realize and maybe someone posted this but I missed it, our whole party had to be there for them to see and issue the party size on his card. This was a bit of a pain because my parents live in California and they were at work and weren't coming to the park until that evening. We had to go back to guest relations with them and get issued a new card that night, this would have really been a pain had there been a long line to wait in for the card but both times it was empty in there. Also we had to get a managers approval because with my parents we had 7 people and they only allow 6 people per card. They were very nice about it as was I. I just explained that it would really stink to leave one person out of every ride. However I don't really understand this rule, if we are waiting the wait time just in a separate area why are they limiting our party size? If we were waiting in the regular line we would all walk into the line together, we have to ride in separate cars usually and that's fine, so why would they make parties completely separate using this card? Just a thought I had.
> We had a good experience with the new system except for the kiosks. There are not enough of them and when you finish a ride in certain places you really have to trek a distance to get a new return time. I asked a few CM's and they said that they understand that problem and right now it is a staffing issue, so they are sympathetic but there is nothing they can do. Hopefully they can do something about that in the near future.
> The other issue we had was for certain rides like Peter Pan when it was our time to return the return line was at least 20 mins probably longer. We couldn't wait in that line plus it would have doubled our wait. I just went back to the kiosk and asked the CM to cross off the ride time and give us a new one because we could not wait in the return line. He was very helpful walked over to the ride with me to see what he could do. He got us a return ticket to go back to that ride anytime during the day when the return line was shorter. He explained to me that they understand with a few specific rides there is that problem and he says they are working on what to do for those situations. I planned on writing my feedback to disney and was going to mention this CM by name because I really feel he went above and beyond which was very different from a few other CMs we experienced. Most of them do understand there needs to be some fixes to this system and are very very nice. I did encounter one CM who was really quite rude but I won't go into that because that was not the norm.
> Overall we had a great time and a good experience with the new system. It's definitely not as easy and takes some planning but by the second day I got a good feel for the system and we made it work great for us and just went with the flow and didn't stress about it even on the 2 really busy days we got a good amount of things done.
> 
> I hope this helps, I really enjoyed this thread to prepare myself before the trip  so I thought I would leave my experience. I can elaborate more if anyone would like too I am typing this on my phone so I hope it makes sense haha.
> 
> Also we go back in Dec so I will write again if I notice any changes or improvements to the system by then.



Thanks for the report - you did well considering it was on a phone!


----------



## KPeveler

LauraluvsDisney2 said:


> Just thought I would write up a brief overview of our experience with the DAS.
> We were at DLR for 5 days 10/23-10/27. We got the card at the DCA guest relations first thing on 10/23. There was not another person in there so it was pretty quick. I explained my sons needs and our concerns and they issued the DAS. One thing I didn't realize and maybe someone posted this but I missed it, our whole party had to be there for them to see and issue the party size on his card. This was a bit of a pain because my parents live in California and they were at work and weren't coming to the park until that evening. We had to go back to guest relations with them and get issued a new card that night, this would have really been a pain had there been a long line to wait in for the card but both times it was empty in there. Also we had to get a managers approval because with my parents we had 7 people and they only allow 6 people per card. They were very nice about it as was I. I just explained that it would really stink to leave one person out of every ride. However I don't really understand this rule, if we are waiting the wait time just in a separate area why are they limiting our party size? If we were waiting in the regular line we would all walk into the line together, we have to ride in separate cars usually and that's fine, so why would they make parties completely separate using this card? Just a thought I had.
> We had a good experience with the new system except for the kiosks. There are not enough of them and when you finish a ride in certain places you really have to trek a distance to get a new return time. I asked a few CM's and they said that they understand that problem and right now it is a staffing issue, so they are sympathetic but there is nothing they can do. Hopefully they can do something about that in the near future.
> The other issue we had was for certain rides like Peter Pan when it was our time to return the return line was at least 20 mins probably longer. We couldn't wait in that line plus it would have doubled our wait. I just went back to the kiosk and asked the CM to cross off the ride time and give us a new one because we could not wait in the return line. He was very helpful walked over to the ride with me to see what he could do. He got us a return ticket to go back to that ride anytime during the day when the return line was shorter. He explained to me that they understand with a few specific rides there is that problem and he says they are working on what to do for those situations. I planned on writing my feedback to disney and was going to mention this CM by name because I really feel he went above and beyond which was very different from a few other CMs we experienced. Most of them do understand there needs to be some fixes to this system and are very very nice. I did encounter one CM who was really quite rude but I won't go into that because that was not the norm.
> Overall we had a great time and a good experience with the new system. It's definitely not as easy and takes some planning but by the second day I got a good feel for the system and we made it work great for us and just went with the flow and didn't stress about it even on the 2 really busy days we got a good amount of things done.
> 
> I hope this helps, I really enjoyed this thread to prepare myself before the trip  so I thought I would leave my experience. I can elaborate more if anyone would like too I am typing this on my phone so I hope it makes sense haha.
> 
> Also we go back in Dec so I will write again if I notice any changes or improvements to the system by then.



That is new - I have never had to have my party in the park, much less in City Hall with me when I got a DAS.  I have even renewed it, and I always get it for 6.  There is a group of us who meet at the park, and we never know who is going to be there.  So I always get the card for 6, and then if there are fewer, I tell the CM upon entering the queue.  I have always done this, even with the GAC.

I did have a CM issuing a WC Return Ticket tell me my entire party must be there to get the return time, but when she asked her lead, she was told this was not needed.

I have been told by Guest Relations that we are allowed to send runners to get the wheelchair return times, especially for those of us in manual wheelchairs who push ourselves - so the whole group is almost never present when getting this.

I will ask someone at Guest Relations next time I am there about the whole party needing to be present when the DAS is issued.  I know a manager must approve groups over 6, but I have never been told I must have everyone with me.  Anyone who has been to DL City Hall will realize why that will fail quickly - it is not big enough to handle the crowds now, much less if they make entire parties with all the strollers and kids and everyone crowd in!  I will put this on my list of questions to ask.

I will also check in about Aladdin and what happens if a person cannot wait in the standard queue, even if it is 10 minutes long. (It is not the time but the physical location or circumstance that is the issue)  Hopefully I get some satisfying answers, as CMs are reporting a lot of confusion on their end.


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## cmwade77

The official policy is of the party is over 6, the entire party must be present. But there have been a few CMs lately insisting that everyone must beer present when getting the DAS. When I heard about this happening, I spoke with the person from the executive offices and she confirmed that the entire party needs to be present for parties larger than 6, but not 6 or smaller. Obviously out here requiring an entire party to be present would be problematic. We often start or day with just DW and I, or sometimes by ourselves and our friends join us later in the day after getting off work, etc. 

I have a feeling that they are trying to do this to combat multiple DAS catrds in the same group, but the problem is there are situations where there are legitimate needs for more than one in the same group. For example both DW and I legitimately need one, for different reasons and as stated earlier, there are times where we are not together and times where we are and even when we are, sometimes one of us will not want to go on a particular ride. So, only one DAS would not work.


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## PatMcDuck

I see that many people are able to use a runner to get return times for their DAS.  Or they can leave the DAS holder alone in a comfortable place and run to get the card written up.  I will not have this option, I cannot leave my son alone, and it will be just me and him.  I must push him in a manual chair.

Anyone else in this situation, is it difficult to do this?  

We would try and get to the park at opening, we will just be walking over from VGC.  And we would only be at the park 3-4 hours each day, possibly returning in the evening for a few more hours/


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## cmwade77

The trick with this is to utilize FP and wheelchair return time cards in combination with return times on the DAS in order to minimize the extra traveling you would do. Here is an example of what you could do, assuming you are there at Park opening at DL:
Get the DAS, they should ask if you want your first return time, say yes and put Haunted mansion on it. 
Then go and get a FP for Indiana Jones
Ride jungle cruise (should have a 10 minute or less wait, if it is longer, do not show the DAS and get a wheelchair return time)
Go to the Tiki room
If you got a wheel chair return time for jungle, go on it
Ride Indiana Jones
Go to pirates (should be able to get right on, if not again, so not show DAS and get a wheelchair return time)
Ride haunted mansion
Get a return time for Peter Pan (kiosk is at the exit of hm)
Get a return time card for splash, if you wish to ride it. 
Ride winnie the pooh
Ride splash
Go to fantasyland and get return time cards for all the attractions near the carousel, except Peter Pan.
Ride Peter Pan
Get a return time for  matterhorn (kiosk is by Mr. Toads)
Ride Mr.  Toads and continue around in order, ending near the matterhorn
Ride  materhorn.
Get return time for small world
See mickey and the magical map (you could probably get lunch at this point as well)
Get a FP for Roger rabbit
Get a return time card for gadgets go coaster
Go to mickey's house,  Minnie's, etc. 
Ride gadgets
Ride roger rabbit
Ride small world
Head to tomorrowland
Get a return time for Nemo along the way (kiosk in fantasyland)
Get a FP for autopia
Ride nemo
Get a FP for space
Get a return time for buzz (kiosk near the exit of buzz)
Cut through tomorrowland terrace and ride autopia
Ride space
Ride buzz get a return time for star tours
Ride the monorail
Ride star tours
See great moments with Mr.  Lincoln on the way out of the park. 

Go somewhere for dinner or stay in the park and do more rides, fireworks, etc. The point is simply that it should be about dinner time now. 

This is assuming you don't want the parade, otherwise mix it in there somewhere.


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## IndianaPrincess

I think the below post has to be the absolute best advice for a day at Disneyland. For those of us who are not regulars, this type of knowledge is priceless. I'm recently back and I can't tell you how helpful this "DAS plan" would have been! Thank you to cmwade77! Now anyone who is going and doesn't have an AP - trust me... print this out and take it with.

NOTE - I know not everyone has a wheelchair. We got a stroller as wheelchair tag because my son uses it only to regroup or when having a tough time and we also have a wheelchair in our group. There is no way that we could have done as much as we did without having that tag or wheelchair as it allows for the wheelchair return card to be issued. The below plan doesn't work with it either. Consider that in your planning.



cmwade77 said:


> The trick with this is to utilize FP and wheelchair return time cards in combination with return times on the DAS in order to minimize the extra traveling you would do. Here is an example of what you could do, assuming you are there at Park opening at DL:
> Get the DAS, they should ask if you want your first return time, say yes and put Haunted mansion on it.
> Then go and get a FP for Indiana Jones
> Ride jungle cruise (should have a 10 minute or less wait, if it is longer, do not show the DAS and get a wheelchair return time)
> Go to the Tiki room
> If you got a wheel chair return time for jungle, go on it
> Ride Indiana Jones
> Go to pirates (should be able to get right on, if not again, so not show DAS and get a wheelchair return time)
> Ride haunted mansion
> Get a return time for Peter Pan (kiosk is at the exit of hm)
> Get a return time card for splash, if you wish to ride it.
> Ride winnie the pooh
> Ride splash
> Go to fantasyland and get return time cards for all the attractions near the carousel, except Peter Pan.
> Ride Peter Pan
> Get a return time for  matterhorn (kiosk is by Mr. Toads)
> Ride Mr.  Toads and continue around in order, ending near the matterhorn
> Ride  materhorn.
> Get return time for small world
> See mickey and the magical map (you could probably get lunch at this point as well)
> Get a FP for Roger rabbit
> Get a return time card for gadgets go coaster
> Go to mickey's house,  Minnie's, etc.
> Ride gadgets
> Ride roger rabbit
> Ride small world
> Head to tomorrowland
> Get a return time for Nemo along the way (kiosk in fantasyland)
> Get a FP for autopia
> Ride nemo
> Get a FP for space
> Get a return time for buzz (kiosk near the exit of buzz)
> Cut through tomorrowland terrace and ride autopia
> Ride space
> Ride buzz get a return time for star tours
> Ride the monorail
> Ride star tours
> See great moments with Mr.  Lincoln on the way out of the park.
> 
> Go somewhere for dinner or stay in the park and do more rides, fireworks, etc. The point is simply that it should be about dinner time now.
> 
> This is assuming you don't want the parade, otherwise mix it in there somewhere.


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## IndianaPrincess

Sorry for the delay. Honestly I was kinda turned off from helping people here as I seem to do a bad job walking the line. But I did promise to come back with my story.

Looking back there were two specific times where I was really frustrated with the DAS. That's not to say that I liked the new program - many, many tweaks are needed, but there were two times I was literally holding back tears.


1 - This first one is not a biggie and but it was a big bummer. While WDW has options for DAS use for some characters, DL and DCA has none. I went in knowing that you could only get a return time for a character with a FP, but I didn't know that would be 0 characters at DL. So now you know.  My son couldn't make it through any the character lines so that meant no characters for our family. We ran into a few on the street or in the Halloween area, so that was nice. The specific time that I was upset was at the kiosk in the area in front of the castle. I had just found out that there were no character options and I said something like "I know that at WDW there are options, so I'd like to suggest that DL puts in some sort of system to let DAS users see at least a few characters." The cast member just stood there and I'm like "I thought Disney was inviting feedback on the system." and the kid still didn't do anything. I thought at least humor me and write it down or tell me you'll pass it on! 


2 - So this was actually my breaking point - tears were involved. It was on our last day and we went to into Toontown midday. It was hot and crowded. My son was already in the stroller full-time as he was having trouble controlling his climbing on prior rides. I was the runner the entire trip as my DH mostly tended to his mother and we all managed the four kids (we took my niece and nephew). The kiosks were far and few between, but I never imagined that there wouldn't be one in Toontown. So after our group making the trek to Toontown, which I don't know why but the walk is really tough, pushing DS in the stroller and DH pushing his mom, we pulled FP for Roger Rabbit and I went looking for the kiosk. I couldn't find it anywhere (imagine that!) so I ended up at the Gadgets coaster and asked the CM that was walking by where the kiosk was. He told me that it was in Fantasyland. Let me state this very clear - I was never rude or mean to him. I was just exasperated and holding back tears. I said that I just can't make that walk all the way there. I was exhausted from just having made my way there and I just couldn't do it again. So for the first (AND LAST) time, I asked for a lead. He said he was a lead. So I asked if he could mark my time. The wait was 20 minutes on the sign that was directly next to us. He said no, return times are only given at the kiosk. I asked if there was any way a CM could go get a time for us. He said no, they aren't allowed to touch our cards. I asked if he could just note the time and we'll wait here and then let us ride in 20 minutes. No, he said he couldn't do that. If the wait was 10 minutes he could let us ride right away but 20 minutes needed a return time. I asked if he had any ideas and he said to go get a return time at the kiosk in Fantasyland. Okay I gave up on the DAS pass.  

Now up to this point, I assumed that the line was accessible just because it's not too old of a ride but I learned to check with a CM. I asked him if the queue was accessible. He tells me "No, it's not. You need to get a return time card at the kiosk." This is where I started crying. I told him that isn't true for any other ride. We've been getting them at the ride. At this point, he was being a total jerk to me. He's like "Well here we don't hand them out at the ride. You get them at the kiosk. I'm the lead and we don't carry return cards on us. You have to get one in Fantasyland." I finally firmly state (the most "mean" I was) "You are telling me that this ride is not accessible to my son without walking halfway across the park to get a time that would be the time of our arrival back whether it's for the DAS pass or the wheelchair?"  He snapped back "I'm telling you to go to Fantasyland to get a wheelchair return card or a DAS return time."

So crying Michelle returns back to the family. I talked to Miles and we decided to try out the line with him (MIL wasn't upset to miss this one). So we get in line and within a minute or two, a CM comes over to tell Miles to stop climbing (I was fine with what he was doing but I'm totally okay with the fact that CM wasn't - he was stepping up on the lowest ridge of the fake wall. We try to let him satisfy the urge in safe ways). I say something to her like "Sorry, he has a stroller but since we can't bring it in this line I'm going to have a hard time controlling him."  

My blood pressure when through the roof as she said that we needed to get a stroller wheelchair red tag and then we could go through the exit as it is wheelchair accessible. I told her we tried that but we were told that we had to get a return time card from the kiosk in Fantasyland. She's like "No, no we don't use return cards, just go to the exit and they'll take care of you right away." I said that it was a lead that I talked to and she asked for his name. She went and double checked and came back and sent us out of the line.

We wheeled up to the exit and went on the next train. The original CM was working the ride and wouldn't make eye contact with me. I don't know what his deal was. I understand that at the beginning of the interaction, I was asking him to work with me outside the box, but that is exactly what guest relations told me that the leads had the ability to do. BUT the second part of the interaction, he just gave me incorrect information and I don't know if he really thought it was that way or if he was being a BEEP.  The entire thing really sucked.


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## starshine514

So, after listening to the podcast, I emailed Disney Disability Services about our upcoming single-day trip to DLR. They finally called me back today and basically told me that it was ridiculous and that person on the podcast must be lying about the wait times she experienced. I didn't have time to jot down the whole list of return time attractions she listed, but did jot down the ones we're hoping to ride (IASW, JC, POC and HMH) that she says the return time will be issued for a wheelchair. She couldn't tell me if they would always issue a return time, even if the ride was walk on (but did ask if my mom could walk and if she could to just go through the regular line - I had to point out those pesky things like stairs (which my mom can't do) would keep my mom from going through a standard queue). I got the impression that she really has no idea what is happening in the parks, which is unfortunate. I still don't know if I can count on a return time being issued when I'm trying to schedule our FPs around the wheelchair return times.

She did confirm that we don't need a DAS card for a wheelchair, and that DCA, Pooh, and Buzz will be the same for us.


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## cmwade77

I am curious if anyone who has been recently has also been told that their entire party needs to be present when getting the DAS, even if the party is 6 or fewer people?

I have been hearing from some friends that went recently that were told this and others that weren't.

I know that the official rule (according to the person on the phone that I have been working with) is that parties of 6 or less do not need to be present when you get the DAS, but I would like to know what people are being told.


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## KPeveler

cmwade77 said:
			
		

> I am curious if anyone who has been recently has also been told that their entire party needs to be present when getting the DAS, even if the party is 6 or fewer people?
> 
> I have been hearing from some friends that went recently that were told this and others that weren't.
> 
> I know that the official rule (according to the person on the phone that I have been working with) is that parties of 6 or less do not need to be present when you get the DAS, but I would like to know what people are being told.



According to a guest relations supervisor, any party larger than FOUR 4 are required to all be present in City Hall or Chamber of Commerce when getting a DAS. 

Also whenever a person is getting a Wheelchair Return Card at one of the 9 rides where such a card is necessary - the entire party riding the ride must be present to ACQUIRE the card.  This means that runners can no longer be sent for wheelchair return cards.  Runners can still be sent for DAS return times.  This is especially frustrating for those of us with manual chairs or multiple disabilities in the group.

At Mansion,  if you are a " red card " meaning you take the wheelchair in with you to the ride, return times are being given out based on when they can next get you in the building.  There are only 3 wheelchairs allowed in the building at one time.  This means the return time may be longer than the standby time.  They do not, however have a return window.  It still says "return after 8" which means there are still backups and confusion over getting people on the ride.

I had a DAS time for HM and when I arrived they assumed the DAS meant I could leave my wheelchair.  I told them I needed a red card and I was told I would have to wait until the next wheelchair "slot" available.  This was another 30 minutes after my wait time.  I said I had a DAS and they said I had to wait anyway. 

I did not ride.  I asked guest relations about it and they said I should have been accommodated immediately and sent in as soon as possible.   They advised if I or anyone else was told they had to get an additional card at the ride to ask for a manager.

I do not know how many red card wheelchair slots are open on their chart at HM but it stands to reason that there are only so many slots in a day.  This could cause problems.


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## cmwade77

KPeveler said:


> According to a guest relations supervisor, any party larger than FOUR 4 are required to all be present in City Hall or Chamber of Commerce when getting a DAS.
> 
> Also whenever a person is getting a Wheelchair Return Card at one of the 9 rides where such a card is necessary - the entire party riding the ride must be present to ACQUIRE the card.  This means that runners can no longer be sent for wheelchair return cards.  Runners can still be sent for DAS return times.  This is especially frustrating for those of us with manual chairs or multiple disabilities in the group.
> 
> At Mansion,  if you are a " red card " meaning you take the wheelchair in with you to the ride, return times are being given out based on when they can next get you in the building.  There are only 3 wheelchairs allowed in the building at one time.  This means the return time may be longer than the standby time.  They do not, however have a return window.  It still says "return after 8" which means there are still backups and confusion over getting people on the ride.
> 
> I had a DAS time for HM and when I arrived they assumed the DAS meant I could leave my wheelchair.  I told them I needed a red card and I was told I would have to wait until the next wheelchair "slot" available.  This was another 30 minutes after my wait time.  I said I had a DAS and they said I had to wait anyway.
> 
> I did not ride.  I asked guest relations about it and they said I should have been accommodated immediately and sent in as soon as possible.   They advised if I or anyone else was told they had to get an additional card at the ride to ask for a manager.
> 
> I do not know how many red card wheelchair slots are open on their chart at HM but it stands to reason that there are only so many slots in a day.  This could cause problems.


I can see major problems with all of this, they need to work this system out a bit better. I am still waiting on official written confirmation about the party size, but this will NOT work for our typical party, who shows up spread out throughout the day. It would mean going into guest relations at LEAST 3 times in one day.

And the red card issue is something that definitely needs to be addressed better. I think the idea of having a return window combined with issuing based on available slots is probably a good idea.

Having a return time on the DAS should bypass the return slots though.


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## samnbilly

cmwade77 said:


> I am curious if anyone who has been recently has also been told that their entire party needs to be present when getting the DAS, even if the party is 6 or fewer people?  I have been hearing from some friends that went recently that were told this and others that weren't.  I know that the official rule (according to the person on the phone that I have been working with) is that parties of 6 or less do not need to be present when you get the DAS, but I would like to know what people are being told.



I just returned home on 11/5 & when I went to GR for my DAS, she never asked to see anyone in my party. (There were 4 of us) The CM explained all of the rules & reg's & I was out of there in 5min including waiting time.


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## cmwade77

samnbilly said:


> I just returned home on 11/5 & when I went to GR for my DAS, she never asked to see anyone in my party. (There were 4 of us) The CM explained all of the rules & reg's & I was out of there in 5min including waiting time.



I wonder what would have happened if you had more than 4, based on the earlier comment on this thread.


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## KPeveler

cmwade77 said:


> I can see major problems with all of this, they need to work this system out a bit better. I am still waiting on official written confirmation about the party size, but this will NOT work for our typical party, who shows up spread out throughout the day. It would mean going into guest relations at LEAST 3 times in one day.
> 
> And the red card issue is something that definitely needs to be addressed better. I think the idea of having a return window combined with issuing based on available slots is probably a good idea.
> 
> Having a return time on the DAS should bypass the return slots though.



Yeah there is little point in handing out "slots" for wheelchairs at HM if there is no return window, just a "return after."  Also, in my mind, this means that there would be a set number of slots per day.  I know they can only get so many people in at a time, and there is a set number of people with wheelchairs that can be in the Mansion in a day.  

My concern is that there may be a set number of *slots * they give out during a day. My wait time for the Wheelchair Return Time was NOT based on current stand-by times, but the next Red Card wheelchair time.

I sincerely hope this system changes soon.


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## cmwade77

KPeveler said:


> Yeah there is little point in handing out "slots" for wheelchairs at HM if there is no return window, just a "return after."  Also, in my mind, this means that there would be a set number of slots per day.  I know they can only get so many people in at a time, and there is a set number of people with wheelchairs that can be in the Mansion in a day.
> 
> My concern is that there may be a set number of *slots * they give out during a day. My wait time for the Wheelchair Return Time was NOT based on current stand-by times, but the next Red Card wheelchair time.
> 
> I sincerely hope this system changes soon.



If you have already waited with the DAS, you should be the next wheelchair to go down, unless there are others with DAS return times ahead of you of course. That is what the official rues according to guest relations and two people from Disney. So, I would definitely ask for a manager if they try that again and you already have a return time.


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## KPeveler

cmwade77 said:
			
		

> If you have already waited with the DAS, you should be the next wheelchair to go down, unless there are others with DAS return times ahead of you of course. That is what the official rues according to guest relations and two people from Disney. So, I would definitely ask for a manager if they try that again and you already have a return time.



That may be what they are saying but I wanted to give people the heads up in case there were other problems.


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## cmwade77

KPeveler said:
			
		

> That may be what they are saying but I wanted to give people the heads up in case there were other problems.



I understand, but my point is if something different is happening, you should ask for a lead. If that fails, then the area manager.


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## Jperiod

I just wanted to encourage everyone to email their experiences to disney, positive and negative.  I just received a phone call back and they are def listening, though changes probably won't be happening for a few more months.


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## KPeveler

cmwade77 said:


> I can see major problems with all of this, they need to work this system out a bit better. I am still waiting on official written confirmation about the party size, but this will NOT work for our typical party, who shows up spread out throughout the day. It would mean going into guest relations at LEAST 3 times in one day.
> 
> And the red card issue is something that definitely needs to be addressed better. I think the idea of having a return window combined with issuing based on available slots is probably a good idea.
> 
> Having a return time on the DAS should bypass the return slots though.



Renewed my DAS on Saturday, and still needed to have the whole party with me to get a number larger than 4.  Also, you need to go all the way back to Guest Relations to change it - no accommodations are being made anywhere else.  I have already run into problems with that, which generally results in us leaving someone off the ride.

I have not even tried Mansion since the DAS vs Red Card mess - I will try it again soon to see if they have worked it out.  I know how to ask for a lead and then a manager if I need to, but I do not always have the time, emotional energy, and patience (or someone in my group cannot handle it), so sometimes I just give up and talk to someone later.


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## MinnieVanMom

Wit all the changes and things still not working out for children with autism, we did cancel our trip set for May 4th.  I am in the process of renting out our DVC points and now even considering selling it all together.

We loved Disney, it was the escape from all the problems, even for a short time.  Yes had problems while there but the rest of them seemed to fall away.

Do you think there will be a time that WDW becomes more friendly for children with autism again?  I liked to go to the park with DS and myself.  I can't be a runner, dragging my son all over the park.  He won't understand that we are not going on that ride now, just getting a ticket.


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## Jperiod

I forgot to say, when the guest relations called me back last week, she actually advised me how to get maximum flexibility for my child with autism since we had both a DAS and a stroller as a wheelchair tag. She said to always get a return ticket/time for both so DS could have choices where to go. It was strange to me how she would advise me to "work the system" since I thought the new DAS was changed for fairness and equality. I'm not sure how I feel about using it that way either since that would mean DS having to go up to more rides in the stroller when right now we only use it as a sensory break. I assume he has to be with us to get a wheelchair return card? Unlike the DAS?

And i asked what would happen in queues he can't handle with waits of less than 10 min, like Matterhorn and she said we'd still be forced through the line switch backs with the DAS. However, if we used the stroller, they'd let us through the exit. That one thoroughly confuses me because what's the point of the DAS? 

And what happens when DS is finally too big for a stroller (he is now, but like I said, we just use it for short breaks or a place to sit, he switches with my DD)? I hope they come up with a more workable solution because I can't imagine resorting to a wheelchair to avoid certain queues.


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## kylmac

MinnieVanMom-I am going through the same thing-we leave tomorrow for DLR and I have been trying to explain to our 12 year old with autism that we will have to get fastpasses for the rides and might not be able to go on all the rides.  We are staying onsite so we will Morning Magic hours-hoping we can get alot accomplished then.  Because of the busy time of year, I have no idea how this trip will go.  We can only go during school holidays and have been wanting to go to DLR for years so we can see the Haunted Mansion with the Jack Skellington theme.  We have never asked for front of the line but the GAC was a life saver as far as minimum meltdowns.  We do have a typical child who also loves Disney so I would hate to stop going because of the new system.  Willing to give it a try and see how it goes.  I will post when we get back as I do not have a good computer to bring with me.
Hang in there and Happy Thanksgiving!
Elizabeth


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## montreid

Hope to hear positive reports back.  DS is 12 also and over the years have made trips to DL specifically for his favorite ride, nemo submarines and talk with crush.  

We never really wanted him in stroller/wc, trying to enforce as much as possible the need to interact and social graces with other kids....despite him burning out a lot faster without one and resorting to breaks throughout the day back at the hotel to decompress him.

The system currently setup really encourages this 'gaming' of WC+DAS--one that would actually be better on the endurance, but isolates him further from what some of the lessons that we are trying to impart while still having his fun time.

Our trips with CAG never got the green light, fol pass.  We were more than happy with his alternate access designation.....the last visit down there, we purposely avoided DL and went to Legoland instead since it was only week2 of DAS.

Here's wishing you well....

@MinnieVanMom - I believe WDW is better without the whole runner/kiosk issue in play.  We have our passes still, and awaiting things to settle out before booking another trip to Orlando.  Until then, we've made our way to Legoland and Universal Studio is on tap in the spring.


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## becd

Jperiod said:


> I forgot to say, when the guest relations called me back last week, she actually advised me how to get maximum flexibility for my child with autism since we had both a DAS and a stroller as a wheelchair tag. She said to always get a return ticket/time for both so DS could have choices where to go. It was strange to me how she would advise me to "work the system" since I thought the new DAS was changed for fairness and equality. I'm not sure how I feel about using it that way either since that would mean DS having to go up to more rides in the stroller when right now we only use it as a sensory break. I assume he has to be with us to get a wheelchair return card? Unlike the DAS?
> 
> And i asked what would happen in queues he can't handle with waits of less than 10 min, like Matterhorn and she said we'd still be forced through the line switch backs with the DAS. However, if we used the stroller, they'd let us through the exit. That one thoroughly confuses me because what's the point of the DAS?
> 
> And what happens when DS is finally too big for a stroller (he is now, but like I said, we just use it for short breaks or a place to sit, he switches with my DD)? I hope they come up with a more workable solution because I can't imagine resorting to a wheelchair to avoid certain queues.



Hi - I just got back from a four day trip to DLR and will be posting my overall experience shortly, but wanted to let you know that when we rode Matterhorn with the new DAS we never waited more than five minutes and both times we were sent through the exit so I do not think you will have a problem.


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## becd

Ok, I am a WDW veteran and DLR newbie so needless to say I was extremely nervous about trying the new system in a park I have never been to before, especially since I was bringing my DS-6 twins without my husband as a special "Mommy" experience with them.  Much like many of your angels, one of my guys suffers from melt downs that can be pretty severe, especially when he is having the sensory overload that comes along with DLR.  It was much easier to handle when he was younger and smaller because I could pick him up and remove him from the situation, but now it is almost physically impossible for me to lift him when he is calm, much less in the throes of a melt down.  I do use a stroller to contain him, but I do not get the stroller as a wheelchair pass.  We arrived at the park Thanksgiving evening and left yesterday afternoon around 3:00 P.M.

As I said I was scared to death about what this trip would entail, but I have nothing but positives to report.  We initially got our DAS at the chamber of Commerce in DCA.  As many of you know, it is not a huge room but the one who needs the DAS had his noise reducing headphones on and I got them both to stand off to the side as I spoke to the CM at the desk so they wold not hear what I was saying.  The woman who helped me could not have been nicer or more understanding.  I briefly explained what his needs were and she did ask me a few follow up questions, but never asked me for his medical diagnosis or any thing along those lines.   When she called him over for his picture she did ask him to remove his sunglasses and headphones, which did not thrill him but she made up for it by letting him push the buttons on the iPad.  He thought that was pretty cool.

Frankly I found the new system to be great.  Yes the GAC was easier, but really there were very few differences in our trip with the new system.  He does love thrill rides so we were hitting those and the waits, even on such a high capacity weekend, were not that bad.  Once we had waited our allotted time, at each ride we were either sent through the Fastpass line or the exit.  The only criticism I have, and it is a mild one, is that there needs to be more Information Desks in the park.  When you are back in Toon-Town and trying to swim upstream through Fantasyland with a stroller to get to the desk there, it can be exhausting  

If anyone has any questions I will be happy to answer them.  Let me also add that every CM we encountered with the DAS was as nice as they could be, in both parks.  The did check the photo to make sure he was in our group, but it was all handled very politely and usually with a Mickey Mouse sticker


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## 2tinkerbell

Thanks for sharing your experience. 

I have tried to be positive about the changes and wondering how it will work for my DD.  This gives me hope that all will work out fine.


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## kylmac

Got back last Sunday morning (red eye) and will report that the new DAC is not that bad but I still prefer the GAC.  As already stated, the CM were extremely nice at Guest Relations as well as the kiosks.  We could get our return time there and then also get a FP to another busy ride.  Of course, we were completely expecting the crowds we encountered as we went over Thanksgiving and they were there.  Actually, the day before Thanksgiving was not too bad and Friday morning it rained so that kept the lines down.  Our son did not quite understand that we could not just walk up to the FP line anymore and we tried everything we could to divert his attention or would go to a shorter wait attraction.  We did chose to go standby on many rides and that worked out ok-the line to Star Tours read 25 minutes and it ended up being more like 45 minutes so that was tough but thankfully out daughter kept our son amused as best as she could.  We did Magic Mornings and were able to do many rides at least once.  We are not heading down to WDW until next Christmas but I am assuming the kiosks and DAC will work the same as DL.  Hope this helps anyone who is going.
Elizabeth


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## KPeveler

Not sure if this has been posted but when I was in the parks tonight the Wheelchair Return Cards now have a window (I was told an hour) for you to return.  So it really does act more like a regular FP.  This means the people returning really are spaced out more, and will hopefully help with the random bunching that was happening before.  

They did NOT change the DAS, so there is no end window for that,  but the wc return times DO have a window of, I believe, an hour.  Hopefully this will cut down on abuse too, since people can no longer collect wc return cards, which act like a FP in many ways, and then use them.as their leisure. It really does treat the person like they are in the line.

Not sure if this happened WDW or if thr change is permanent or just for busy times,  but I do know that was the system in place today.


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## disney*mom*82

We are going to WDW in March and I've been watching this thread lately...we have a large group of 13 going with a large variety of needs. We are very familiar with the GAC and have been able to use that as needed over the years. We will need a stroller as a wheel chair as our son has CP and our daughter has medical needs that will require her in the stroller a lot. We have adults who have other needs that they have needed to use the GAC also. We are only going to 2 parks and want to make the best of those two days. Im not wanting to work the system but would love to hear how to make the best of the new DCA and WC card. Ive written WDW guest relations about our group and they ensured we  wouldn't see many changes from GAC and would be able to have a great experience.  Im glad Im hearing positive experiences lately, hope that keeps up!


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## afnaechiquita

forgive me for not reading through the posts, but has anyone experienced using the DAS during a 10/10 crowd day?

DF and i are getting married on 2/14 (i know, groan), and while initially DF told me no parks (mostly since i am going to WDW five days later..), he's relented since we've been trying to think of how to occupy my parents and little brother since they are coming from the east coast. we're already doing dinner at steakhouse 55, and i know my mom will have a hard time walking around with the park gates right there and not going in.

so anyways, right now 2/14 is not 10/10, but the following days are, which is a given as it is president's day weekend as well. my brother has DS/autism/epilepsy, and we've always used the GAC at WDW. we're keeping an open mind about the DAS. i'm just wondering what it's been like for those who have gone during crowded times. the problem is not the waiting per se, but the waiting in a sea of humanity on a crowded day when there are no quiet places to be found.

if we don't go into the parks, we're considering knott's berry farm (which i see their system is the same as DAS essentially, but allowing walk-ons for rides under 10 minutes wait time).

thanks everyone. my mom is pretty nervous about what the DAS will entail so i'm trying to provide all the information i can to ensure her it will be okay.


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## cmwade77

afnaechiquita said:


> forgive me for not reading through the posts, but has anyone experienced using the DAS during a 10/10 crowd day?
> 
> DF and i are getting married on 2/14 (i know, groan), and while initially DF told me no parks (mostly since i am going to WDW five days later..), he's relented since we've been trying to think of how to occupy my parents and little brother since they are coming from the east coast. we're already doing dinner at steakhouse 55, and i know my mom will have a hard time walking around with the park gates right there and not going in.
> 
> so anyways, right now 2/14 is not 10/10, but the following days are, which is a given as it is president's day weekend as well. my brother has DS/autism/epilepsy, and we've always used the GAC at WDW. we're keeping an open mind about the DAS. i'm just wondering what it's been like for those who have gone during crowded times. the problem is not the waiting per se, but the waiting in a sea of humanity on a crowded day when there are no quiet places to be found.
> 
> if we don't go into the parks, we're considering knott's berry farm (which i see their system is the same as DAS essentially, but allowing walk-ons for rides under 10 minutes wait time).
> 
> thanks everyone. my mom is pretty nervous about what the DAS will entail so i'm trying to provide all the information i can to ensure her it will be okay.


First off, Knott's has on paper what sounds like a similar system, but the reality is completely different.

DL uses kiosks to get the return times. At Knott's, you have to go to each attraction and most of the wait times just to get to someone to give you the return time is longer than the wait times, but if you can't do stairs, then you have no other choice.

Knott's has a 30 minute (last I heard) window to come back within and if you don't, then you have to get a new wait time.

When you return, you have to wait again to get to where you can enter (usually the same wait you waited to get the return time).

Disneyland, you go to the Kiosk, tell them what you want to ride next and they will write the return time and you can go anytime after that return time, but you can't have more than one return time at a time.

That being said, you can use FP and if a wheelchair is used, wheelchair return time cards (these have a 1 hour return time window) as well.

I have been on a very busy day and using the DAS does work well, the only thing to keep in mind is if it is that busy, getting around the parks may be more difficult, but with proper planning, it's still doable.

I would not expect 2/14 to be a 10/10 day, but I would expect it be fairly busy. If you can get there at park opening, it won't be as bad though. In fact it will probably be fairly light until about 2:00 is when you will start noticing the crowds, then be quite crowded from about 4:30 on.


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## afnaechiquita

cmwade77 said:


> First off, Knott's has on paper what sounds like a similar system, but the reality is completely different.
> 
> DL uses kiosks to get the return times. At Knott's, you have to go to each attraction and most of the wait times just to get to someone to give you the return time is longer than the wait times, but if you can't do stairs, then you have no other choice.
> 
> Knott's has a 30 minute (last I heard) window to come back within and if you don't, then you have to get a new wait time.
> 
> When you return, you have to wait again to get to where you can enter (usually the same wait you waited to get the return time).
> 
> Disneyland, you go to the Kiosk, tell them what you want to ride next and they will write the return time and you can go anytime after that return time, but you can't have more than one return time at a time.
> 
> That being said, you can use FP and if a wheelchair is used, wheelchair return time cards (these have a 1 hour return time window) as well.
> 
> I have been on a very busy day and using the DAS does work well, the only thing to keep in mind is if it is that busy, getting around the parks may be more difficult, but with proper planning, it's still doable.
> 
> I would not expect 2/14 to be a 10/10 day, but I would expect it be fairly busy. If you can get there at park opening, it won't be as bad though. In fact it will probably be fairly light until about 2:00 is when you will start noticing the crowds, then be quite crowded from about 4:30 on.



thank you!! that clears a lot up. especially the difference at knott's. 

he is able to transfer from wheelchair, so i don't think the wheelchair return time cards apply to us, right? he has to be in it the whole time until it's time to get on the ride though (or else we'll face the infamous plop n' drop...). 

unfortunately rope drop is not likely an option for 2/14, but we can for 2/15. we'll have to see! thanks again.


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## chirurgeon

I am also someone who has not read the entire thread. I am anticipating the need for an ECV for my July trip. I have moderate to severe arthritis in one knee and am asthmatic, I am able to transfer myself. I will be doing the DIS ABD trip and am adding a number of days after the trip to explore further. I have used an ECV once before for only 1 day at DL a couple of years ago. With the current changes to the procedures for those of us with disabilities I see I will need a Wheelchair Return card. Do I get this from the handicapped entrance, in most cases the exit from what I recall from my last trip, or the kiosks?  Like everyone else here I just want to have fun and am willing to wait my appropriate turn.  

I was hoping to see some recent reports from someone who has has a similar situation in terms of needing an ECV.  I will listen to the podcast the Bowlings did.


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## SueM in MN

chirurgeon said:


> I am also someone who has not read the entire thread. I am anticipating the need for an ECV for my July trip. I have moderate to severe arthritis in one knee and am asthmatic, I am able to transfer myself. I will be doing the DIS ABD trip and am adding a number of days after the trip to explore further. I have used an ECV once before for only 1 day at DL a couple of years ago. With the current changes to the procedures for those of us with disabilities I see I will need a Wheelchair Return card. Do I get this from the handicapped entrance, in most cases the exit from what I recall from my last trip, or the kiosks?  Like everyone else here I just want to have fun and am willing to wait my appropriate turn.
> 
> I was hoping to see some recent reports from someone who has has a similar situation in terms of needing an ECV.  I will listen to the podcast the Bowlings did.


If you have not read post one of this thread, you may want to read it.
That post has the DAS FAQs.

If mobility is your main issue, that will be taken care of by having the ECV.
At Disney's California Adventure, most lines are accessible, so don't have return times.

The kiosks are only for DAS, not for wheelchair return times. From everything I have seen, the wheelchair return times are given out at what is listed as the 'mobility entrance' for the attraction.
KPeveler is at DL often and will probably reply more completely.


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## chirurgeon

Thanks Sue. I had read the first post, but some later trip experiences had me concerned. No one has posted much after the initial  implementation. Hopefully there will be some other reports in the next few months.


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## cmwade77

For ECVs, Sue has it right. DCA doesn't generally have any attractions with return times, as the lines are mainstreamed. There are sometimes exceptions, such as RSR, if the wheelchair queue is beginning to get too backed up, they will sometimes issue return times (usually a longer wait than the standby line though) to spread out the wheelchairs. This has become extremely rare with the new DAS system fully implemented, but I have heard that it does still happen from time to time.

DL is a different story all together, return times are given out for:

All of Fantasyland, except the Matterhorn, which has a mainstreamed queue.
Finding Nemo Subs (when and if they reopen)
Space Mountain
Astro Orbiter
Jungle Cruise
Pirates
Haunted Mansion
Splash Mountain
Big Thunder (Rumor has it that this queue may become mainstreamed when it reopens though)
Roger Rabbit's Cartoon Spin (Only when FP is running, otherwise it is a mainstreamed queue when it isn't running)
Autopia, when the queue is going up the steps (NOTE: The lift is broken more that it is running at this attraction, so be sure to ask if it is running before getting a return time, not all CMs stop to think about the lift being down as a problem that would mean that the return time was useless. Likewise, if they are not giving out return times, always ask the first CM if the lift is working, nothing like getting up there and not being able to ride because the lift is broken).

In all cases, wheelchair and ECV return times must be used within 1 hour of the return time and they usually will just let you get on the ride if the wait time is 20 minutes or less.

Some other exceptions to the rules and things to note:

Gadget's Go Coaster is not mainstreamed, but at last report was not handing out return times, even when the line was over 20 minutes.
Innoventions - It should be noted that you will usually need to point out to the CMs that you need the alternate entrance, they usually try to direct you up the ramp, which is not accessible.
At Star Tours, you must now transfer to a wheelchair (there are ones provided) prior to using the elevator.
Peter Pan usually now requires transferring to a wheelchair prior to using the accessible entrance, but this does seem to vary by CM and in some cases by the size of the ECV, etc.

Since I don't personally use a wheelchair or ECV, there may also be others that I am unaware of, but these are the ones that I am aware of at this time from going with those that do.


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## chirurgeon

As for the rides that want you to transfer to a wheelchair, as a solo traveler, this probably won't work for me. I will most likely have a cane with me due to my arthritic knee.  Hopefully I can just walk from that point. The ECV is mainly to avoid further damage to the knee and my lack of stamina. I will keep watching this thread for more info.


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## Friendly Frog

Provided the necessary accommodations are met for access, this is what to expect in the time management stamina changes to the system?  

If the ride standby wait time posted is 90 mins. "Regular" rider should expect to board the ride at approximate the 90 min mark.

DAS Rider-no mobility issues or main stream line:  Go to kiosk and to be given a ride return time for 80 mins. ( 80 mins -10 min (walk to kiosk before the ride, wait time in the kiosk line, walk back to the ride.)  wait time= 90 min ride line length.). At the 90 min mark, while 'Regular"  rider is boarding the ride, the DAS rider will just be entering the fastpass lane.  Thus the DAS user should expect to,  and will be, waiting normal ride times PLUS the extra time equal to the wait in a fast pass line?  

DAS rider in chair on non mainstream rides, or rides with special cars: Should expect even longer wait times than any of the examples above, since you will need to wait the 90 min stand by time, and then also wait for a wheelchair load time which is usually much longer than just a fastpass line?  May possibly wait behind existing return wheelchair users or may even be turned away and asked to use a wheelchair return time, which could be 2 times or more the standard wait times posted in the regular line?


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## kritter47

The 10 minute wait time is not to make up for the walk, which is something every guest at the park must go through. It's to make up for the time spent waiting in the FP line. So your wait time, from the time you get to pick up the return time, should be the same as a standby guest entering the ride at that time (90 minutes in standby line or 80 minutes waiting somewhere else/doing other things plus 10 minutes in FP line).

Does it always work like that? No. Sometimes it's more, and sometimes it's less. But it's something that will even out over experience provided there aren't issues like mechanical failures or the occasional large group entering (which would back up the line for anyone, DAS guest or not).

For non-mainstream rides, there are more significant problems with equal wait time because of fire code restrictions. The simplest solution may be simple rationing of times because as per the fire code, there can only be a certain number of guests who cannot evacuate on their own on the ride at any given time. That would be far less than equal access if you walked up to a ride and found the next 15 wheelchair spots booked, but when the ADA runs into fire code, I think the fire code usually wins.


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## gaznat13

Hi

I am new to this thread and going to Disney for the first time the year.  My son is 12 years old and has Hemiplegia Cerebral Palsy, I predict he will need a wheelchair for access around the parks as he tires easily and has difficulty in walking distances. In the UK where we live, he would get a disabled pass no problems, at theme parks but reading forums here it appears the new DAS card will not be given out on mobility issues relating to his disability issues alone, is this right?  

I am just trying to get prepared for him, we will be going in August which will be very crowded.  any advice would be greatly appreciated.


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## SueM in MN

gaznat13 said:


> Hi
> 
> I am new to this thread and going to Disney for the first time the year.  My son is 12 years old and has Hemiplegia Cerebral Palsy, I predict he will need a wheelchair for access around the parks as he tires easily and has difficulty in walking distances. In the UK where we live, he would get a disabled pass no problems, at theme parks but reading forums here it appears the new DAS card will not be given out on mobility issues relating to his disability issues alone, is this right?
> 
> I am just trying to get prepared for him, we will be going in August which will be very crowded.  any advice would be greatly appreciated.





gaznat13 said:


> Hi
> 
> I am new to this thread and going to Disney for the first time the year.  My son is 12 years old and has Hemiplegia Cerebral Palsy, I predict he will need a wheelchair for access around the parks as he tires easily and has difficulty in walking distances. In the UK where we live, he would get a disabled pass no problems, at theme parks but *reading forums here it appears the new DAS card will not be given out on mobility issues relating to his disability issues alone,* is this right?
> 
> I am just trying to get prepared for him, we will be going in August which will be very crowded.  any advice would be greatly appreciated.


That is correct.
DAS is not for mobility related issues only. 

This thread is about Disneyland. If you are going there, DCA (Disney's California Adventure) has accessible queues for most attractions. With a wheelchair, you would just get into the queue. This is why guests don't need a DAS for mobility devices - the CM can see the mobility device sand direct you to the correct place.

Disneyland Park has more older attractions which don't have accessible lines - in many cases, you enter thru the exit. For those, you would be given a wheelchair return card at the attraction.  When the time comes, you would return and be allowed to enter.
The reason for giving return times is to avoid large lines of guests waiting for access.


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## lovebug33

I've read the sticky and several posts but I just want to make sure I understand if you will humor me. My dd has low muscle tone and physical delays, so she can't walk or stand. That is her only issue. We will get a sticker saying we can take her stroller through the line. Correct? So when we are at Disneyland, we will just go through the line but with her stroller so that we don't have to carry her the entire day. I appreciate any help because we are new to this whole thing.


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## SueM in MN

lovebug33 said:


> I've read the sticky and several posts but I just want to make sure I understand if you will humor me. My dd has low muscle tone and physical delays, so she can't walk or stand. That is her only issue. We will get a sticker saying we can take her stroller through the line. Correct? So when we are at Disneyland, we will just go through the line but with her stroller so that we don't have to carry her the entire day. I appreciate any help because we are new to this whole thing.


That is correct

If the only concerns in line are mobility and would be met by using her stroller in lines as a wheelchair, all you will need is the sticker.


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## Stitch35

I have read this entire thread and there is a lot of good info. I can't find info for my exact question, so hoping someone will have experience in this. DL has been our go to vacation since my DS5 was diagnosed with medical issue. It causes a lot of behavioral issues, several similar to ADHD and autism. My biggest concern is he gets stuck and there is absolutely no way to change his mind, if he wants to ride xx he's going to be in line for it NOW. His line breaking point is about 20min before a meltdown because he's not where he thinks he should be; people are too close to him; people are not moving fast enough; etc. These can be violent. The GAC was perfect for us. We did regular lines if they were short enough and used the GAC card otherwise. RR was UGLY last year with the hour wait time with GAC ticket. We only managed once in 12 days to ride RR and that was only because we got the FP while he was napping in his stroller. We are considering canceling our August trip and bidding ado to Disneyland. We are very sad since it was the only place he seemed to be understood and we could enjoy as a family relatively meltdown free.  At least we will have the memories if he takes a turn for the worse.


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## Stitch35

Sorry pressed send before I asked my question:

Anyone dealt with something like this on the new DAS system? If so how did it go? Any suggestions? Thank you!


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## doberlady

maybe have someone else from your party get the return time with the new card so your son doesn't have to go near the ride until it's time


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## Stitch35

Unfortunately the August trip would be just myself and my DS8 and DS5. It's not the being near the ride, it's needing x ride. We can be at Midway and he will want splash and there's no way to change his mind and he won't budge until after he's been on splash.


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## Pilotdog

Does anyone know how it works with a cane now? My mom has a cane and can not do stairs. In the past at DL she just went to the exit at rides and was let on or waited in the line at the exit. Will she now be given a WC return card?


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## cmwade77

Pilotdog said:


> Does anyone know how it works with a cane now? My mom has a cane and can not do stairs. In the past at DL she just went to the exit at rides and was let on or waited in the line at the exit. Will she now be given a WC return card?



She would not get a DAS with a cane, unless there are other issues that are not addressed by having the cane and that could not be addressed by using a wheelchair or ECV. At attractions with a mainstreamed queue, she would be expected to wait in the queue up until the stairs, then directed the same way as those with a wheelchair. For attractions where there is a separate wheelchair entrance, she would be given a card at each attraction with a return time on it, based on the length of the line. So, let's say she wanted to ride Peter Pan (has a couple of steps in the queue as I recall), she would go to the exit, they would then give her a return time and she would come back at that time and wait for maybe 5-10 minutes upon returning, depending on how many people came back at the exact same time.


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## asmit4

My cousin is dying of cancer. She's 41. She has only a few months left to live. She has a 5yo son and she wants to go to Disneyland next week. They already have their airline tickets. While she can walk and see and hear today- this could change at any time (it's brain cancer and it's affecting her abilities daily). 

My question is- she gets tired VERY easily (reason she chose DL- smaller park than DW). Would she be able to get a disability access card based on her lack of ability to stand in line for long periods of time?


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## SueM in MN

asmit4 said:


> My cousin is dying of cancer. She's 41. She has only a few months left to live. She has a 5yo son and she wants to go to Disneyland next week. They already have their airline tickets. While she can walk and see and hear today- this could change at any time (it's brain cancer and it's affecting her abilities daily).
> 
> My question is- she gets tired VERY easily (reason she chose DL- smaller park than DW). Would she be able to get a disability access card based on her lack of ability to stand in line for long periods of time?


The accommodation for not being able to stand in line is to use a wheelchair.
For some people, that is the only accommodation they need and they would NOT get a DAS. Guests don't need a DAS to use a wheelchair or mobility scooter in line.
But, other people have needs related to the line that are not just 'standing in line' and a wheelchair or CV in line is not enough for them. Those guests need to explain their needs that are not met by the wheelchair. So, have her think of what other issues she would have either waiting in line. That is what she will need to be able to explain to the CMs in a Guest Relations.


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## wandoportgirl

My mom has Lupus and does not do so well standing still... I wonder if this is going to be approved or not.  We are also debating getting her a scooter at MK but she wants to wait until she is tired... I think she should just get one because they could be gone.


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## TLSnell1981

Well, I'm in a scooter and have DAS. I was made to get out of the scooter and get into the FP line. I was offered a wheelchair, but DMIL is also mobility impaired and they only had one wheelchair. I told them I would have a difficult time loading on a moving belt, but was told, they no longer accommodate guests, who need extra time boarding. I had to walk and load...told to hurry up. I almost fell on the belt, so they had to stop it. It was pretty humiliating. Several rides had only one wheelchair available. 

Our Disney days may be behind us.


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## TLSnell1981

I know, it's hard. DMIL has Alzheimer's. Often, she is disrespected and treated, as if, she is just nasty, grouchy and old. The reality...she doesn't understand and no amount of arguing with her helps the situation. Actually, it makes matters worse.


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## chirurgeon

I just reserved an ECV for my July trip. I hope I can give a report on mobility issues when I get back. Half the trip won't be a true test since it will be with an ABD tour, but I will have 4 1/2 days after tha in the parks. I reserved with Deckert after Orange County never responded with a quote.

Anything anyone wants me to look out for or report on specifically?

Just FYI, I have arthritis in my knee and am asthmatic. Not enough stamina for nearly a week of park touring especially having the fast pace of an ABD tour.


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## cmwade77

A couple new things today. They can now reuse your picture and for APs, they make the pass valid for two months which has greatly reduced the length of the line at guest relations.


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## Paula Sedley-Burke

cmwade77 said:


> A couple new things today. They can now reuse your picture and for APs, they make the pass valid for two months which has greatly reduced the length of the line at guest relations.


 that is great news


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## SueM in MN

cmwade77 said:


> A couple new things today. They can now reuse your picture and for APs, they make the pass valid for two months which has greatly reduced the length of the line at guest relations.


I can confirm both of these as having begun in April.
DAS can be issued for up to 60 days, which may be a few days less than 2 months, depending on the months.
The codes for accessing the individual file where the name and picture are stored were present from the beginning, but they were not ready to use them until recently. That does help speed things along.

The information is in the first post of this thread.


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## cmwade77

SueM in MN said:


> I can confirm both of these as having begun in April.
> DAS can be issued for up to 60 days, which may be a few days less than 2 months, depending on the months.
> The codes for accessing the individual file where the name and picture are stored were present from the beginning, but they were not ready to use them until recently. That does help speed things along.
> 
> The information is in the first post of this thread.



I must have last renewed just before this went into effect. I will admit having it valid for two months at a time makes it a lot more likely for me to go ore often. There have been a couple of times where I had to renew my pass and between that and the crowds that day I decided it just want worth the hassle partially because the line at guest relations would have been about an hour long and I couldn't stand there for that long. So, I see this as a major step in the right direction. 

Now there were some issues yesterday, such as my dad who has leukemia and a very low white blood cell count due to his treatments needing to avoid the queues as much as possible. We had no problems with him getting the DAS for our party of 10, using it was a different story. Granted it was one attraction, but it does show that they need some retraining. We went to get a return time for the little Mermaid and were told that since it was only a 10 minute wait we didn't need a return time. Ok, so we get over there and it's still posted as a 10 minute wait, so we get in line as normally at a 10 minute wait everyone is going in where the DAS card holders would go. Well, they had the extended queue up and no one assisting DAS card holders. The line was also longer than 10 minutes. The person that was supposed to be outside was inside the building and refused to come out to help us. I did speak with the lead and they gave us passes for later use, but the point is the accommodations need to be there, even when the line is short, as it's not always just the length of the line that is the problem. For me that extended queue wouldn't be a problem, but for my Dad's situation it just added to possible exposure to illnesses. 

And then our friend who was with us has a service dog and everywhere she went to take him to a relief area, CMS were telling her she wasn't allowed there, despite the fact that guest relations has told her that anywhere with a gate that she can open into a grassy area is somewhere that can be used as a relief area, so long as the gate isn't locked. One even threatened to call security.  If it were me, I probably would have let them call and explain what guest relations has said previously. But bottom line is if there is a new rule that says only where marked, then with present construction there are no relief areas in DCA.


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## SueM in MN

Closed for clean up.


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