# Other Options...



## It's always cold

We are currently trying to decide between ABD Viva Italia and Tauck Bridges Italia Bella.  Both itineraries are quite similar.  Tauck does not have Spanish steps or Trevis fountain, but you could easily do those on your own before the tour started.  Tauck has the leaning tower of Pisa, ABD does not.  Price is a little more for ABD but you get an extra night and day.  If anyone has done either of these trips I would be interested in any comments, obviously I am quite confused


----------



## Bobo912

Did you check out the other Tauck Italy trip,The Sweet Life? It does include the Trevi Fountain and the description says the hotel is in the heart of Rome near the fountain and the Spanish Steps. But it goes to Capri and Pompeii, instead of Venice.  There were a couple of families on our Tauck trip last summer who had done Italia Bella and they raved about it.  Tauck is not very different from ABD so you probably can't go wrong with either one.  The tip for the guide is included in the price of the trip with Tauck, so that's another thing to consider when comparing prices.  Good luck making a choice!


----------



## Pakey

Having traveled to Italy (on my own, not with a group) and seeing Pisa vs the Trevi Fountain and the Spanish Steps, I'd go with the one with the fountain.  If that's the only thing swaying your decision anyway.  Pisa is out of the way and the worst tourist trap in the country IMO.  The extra sights (and time) in Rome are a better deal.


----------



## jhburke

It seems to me that another major difference between the Disney and Tauck trips is in Florence. Disney stays in Tuscany outside of Florence at what sounds like a beautiful country estate; Tauck stays in Florence proper. To me, it may be that the Disney approach may be better for younger children who are not interested in exploring Florence, whereas the Tauck may be better if one really wants to spend more time in the city (for example there is a guided tour of the Uffizi Gallery on the Tauck trip). For small kids the "downtime" at Tuscany may be better than Florence/Pisa; it depends on your family and what you want to see.

We ended up booking Tauck this summer since they had a "loyalty" bonus of two free nights before or after the trip for previous customers. It made the finances much easier for us.  Either way, I'm sure it will be a great trip!

John


----------



## It's always cold

Thank you for all the information, at the moment I am leaning towards Tauck (mainly due to price, for 4 of us with the guide tip (thanks Bobo 912) the Tauck trip is almost $3,000 cheaper than ABD.  Now that being said we would have to do the Spanish Steps and Trevi Fountain on our own.  Is it feasible to think we can just walk there from our hotel?  

Also for anyone who has travelled to Italy do you have any tips or suggestions to avoid the pick pocketors?  I have bought my husband a travel wallet that clips inside his pants and I wasn't planning on carrying a purse, but I would like to have my camera with me, potentially just on my wrist.  Besides pick pocketors is there anything else we should be aware of and watch out for?


----------



## Turtlemom

the Spanish Steps and the Trevi Fountain are both easy to walk to.  Just get a good map, have some pocket money for gelato and go for it!  We stayed just across the river in Rome last summer (near the Palace of Justice), and we were able to walk across the bridge, down the famous shopping street (via del corso?) right to the spanish steps.  Trevi fountain and Piazza Navona are not far away.  Also, the Parthenon area is fun to hang out in at night.  I recommend the Rick Steve's guide for suggestions and hand drawn maps which are surprisingly accurate.  Rome is really a walking city and best to stroll around at twilight and after sundown.  Don't feel like you can't do these sites on your own!


----------



## JJPCheers

We have been on two tours with Tauck Bridges and just booked our third for this summer (Alpine Adventure)  Last year we did the Italia Bella with our 13 year old son.  We all loved it.  On our specific tour date we had 14 kids.  One 8, one 10 and all the rest were teenagers.  I agree that if you have younger children you may want to lean towards ABD.  There is alot of walking on the TB tour but no problem for anyone in our group, but I could see the busy areas not good for very young children whereas ABD stays more out of the way.


----------



## Bobo912

JJPCheers said:


> We have been on two tours with Tauck Bridges and just booked our third for this summer (Alpine Adventure)  Last year we did the Italia Bella with our 13 year old son.  We all loved it.  On our specific tour date we had 14 kids.  One 8, one 10 and all the rest were teenagers.  I agree that if you have younger children you may want to lean towards ABD.  There is alot of walking on the TB tour but no problem for anyone in our group, but I could see the busy areas not good for very young children whereas ABD stays more out of the way.



JJPCheers, if I've asked you this before I apologize, but what were the other two Tauck tours you've taken?  We did the Yosemite trip last year and I almost decided to take Red Rocks and Painted Canyons this summer, but decided on Southwest Splendors instead.  I thought the Tauck trip included more activities, which is a plus, but I finally decided against it because they stay in a different hotel every night and I thought that was too much moving around and not enough time in one place.  The one thing I regretted about our trip last year was not being able to spend enough time in the Yosemite Valley.  Both the Alpine and the Rome/Sorrento trips they added this year look interesting and will be on my list of contenders for 2012.


----------



## serenita05

In Rome everyting is easy to get through and you can you there trolly system.


----------



## serenita05

Hope you have a Magical Trip!!!


----------



## It's always cold

Well the decision has been made, Tauck Bridges won.  Thank you everyone for your insites and opinions.  I willl miss this board for trip planning.


----------



## sayhello

It's always cold said:


> Well the decision has been made, Tauck Bridges won.  Thank you everyone for your insites and opinions.  I willl miss this board for trip planning.


Please don't feel like you can't come here & ask questions about touring Italy & tell us about your trip!  We've had other people choose Tauck Bridges, and they came back with some really invaluable information about them, the differences between the companies and the trips.  

It's about the journey!  And who knows?  Maybe next time ABD will win!  

Sayhello


----------



## Bobo912

It's always cold said:


> Well the decision has been made, Tauck Bridges won.  Thank you everyone for your insites and opinions.  I willl miss this board for trip planning.



Please continue to post about your experience.  I traveled with Tacuk Bridges last year and I posted about it every step of the way.  There were several of us looking for comparisons between ABD and Tauck and it was hard to find information.  It's especially useful to have the perspective of someone who has traveled with both.


----------



## pipch

After 4 ABD trips inc costa ria, peru, galapagos and Wyoming - we have Just completed our first Tauck Bridges - 12 day Grand Tazanaia Family Safari - awesome!

Anyone want any feedback or questions answered just message me. Not fair to discuss on this board but happy to pass on our experience (but suffice it to say - truly amazing!!!!)


----------



## sayhello

pipch said:


> After 4 ABD trips inc costa ria, peru, galapagos and Wyoming - we have Just completed our first Tauck Bridges - 12 day Grand Tazanaia Family Safari - awesome!
> 
> Anyone want any feedback or questions answered just message me. Not fair to discuss on this board but happy to pass on our experience (but suffice it to say - truly amazing!!!!)


Feel free to discuss it here, and compare it to ABD!  I know there will be people interested in hearing your opinions!  There's already a few threads comparing the two companies, and the more info and opinions we have, the more informed decisions folks can make!

Sayhello


----------



## canadakath

pipch said:


> After 4 ABD trips inc costa ria, peru, galapagos and Wyoming - we have Just completed our first Tauck Bridges - 12 day Grand Tazanaia Family Safari - awesome!
> 
> Anyone want any feedback or questions answered just message me. Not fair to discuss on this board but happy to pass on our experience (but suffice it to say - truly amazing!!!!)



Do you have kids?  I would love to know if you felt there was a difference in the children's programs/engagement between the two companies.

Thanks!


----------



## Bobo912

pipch, so glad you enjoyed your trip.  I've had good experiences with Tauck, as well.  I've already planned a trip with ABD for 2014, but I'm thinking about either the TB Tanzania or France Riverboat trip for 2015.  What airline(s) did you fly with?  Do you have any tips for finding the best airfare?  I also considered doing one of the regular Tauck trips in March when the flights were cheaper, but our school board has decided to shorten our 2 week spring break for the 2014-2015 school year, so now we won't have enough time for to travel to Africa.


----------



## tufbuf

Wow! Sounds like an awesome trip!! The highlight for me would be the hot air balloon ride. Pls. do share!!!

Sent from my iPad using DISBoards


----------



## Calfan

Would LOVE to hear all about your Tanzania trip with Tauck.  This is definitely one of the trips at the top of my "want to do list."  Like the PP, we already have an ABD booked for 2014 (Central Europe), but I am strongly considering the Tauck Tanzania trip for 2015.  ABD China is also in contention, but my DH isn't all that enthusiastic about China.  It also depends on what DCL does in 2015.  If DCL goes back to the Baltics, Tanzania will have to wait another year.  

One thing I have been debating about the Tanzania trip is whether to do it in the summer (ours) or wait until Christmas break in December.  I don't particularly like heat, so our summer time is appealing in that regard.  (We went to Zambia and Zimbabwe in June back in 2001, and the weather was pleasantly cool.).  But I don't want to be disappointed that we aren't seeing the huge animal migrations that we might get in Dec..  What was your experience with animal viewing on this trip?  

Did you add on any time before or after?  I would be very tempted to spend a few days in Kenya combined with the Tauck Tanzania trip.


----------



## Phil1019

pipch said:


> After 4 ABD trips inc costa ria, peru, galapagos and Wyoming - we have Just completed our first Tauck Bridges - 12 day Grand Tazanaia Family Safari - awesome!
> 
> Anyone want any feedback or questions answered just message me. Not fair to discuss on this board but happy to pass on our experience (but suffice it to say - truly amazing!!!!)[/QUOT
> 
> I have been on 4 adventures by disney and I am considering trying Tauck as Disney has consideringly raised their prices.The Austria trip has gone up at least $1000  since it was introduced.Does Tauck offer the added special touches like VIP entrance to museums, water magically appearing when you need it, photo C.D's?


----------



## carpenta

Phil1019 said:


> pipch said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have been on 4 adventures by disney and I am considering trying Tauck as Disney has consideringly raised their prices.The Austria trip has gone up at least $1000  since it was introduced.Does Tauck offer the added special touches like VIP entrance to museums, water magically appearing when you need it, photo C.D's?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have been on both Tauck and ABD trips and they are very similar in the "extras" they offer except no picture CD. Tauck stays in top notch hotels and offers those VIP entrances with local guides are brought in to enhance the Tauck guides assigned with your group. One thing that Tauck does offer a lot is a free pre-night stay in the hotel that your tour will be starting the tour. We will be doing Tauck Italy trip next year and since we had already traveled we will be staying in the Rome hotel pre night free. Tauck is a great alternative to ABD and usually is less expensive. We enjoy both for what they offer.
Click to expand...


----------



## sayhello

carpenta said:


> Phil1019 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have been on both Tauck and ABD trips and they are very similar in the "extras" they offer except no picture CD. Tauck stays in top notch hotels and offers those VIP entrances with local guides are brought in to enhance the Tauck guides assigned with your group. One thing that Tauck does offer a lot is a free pre-night stay in the hotel that your tour will be starting the tour. We will be doing Tauck Italy trip next year and since we had already traveled we will be staying in the Rome hotel pre night free. Tauck is a great alternative to ABD and usually is less expensive. We enjoy both for what they offer.
> 
> 
> 
> I just need to ask.  Is this "regular" Tauck, or Tauck Bridges?  I've heard the 2 are quite different, and I haven't seen anything that says Tauck Bridges is welcoming to single travelers.  Have I missed that?
> 
> Sayhello
Click to expand...


----------



## Bobo912

> I have been on 4 adventures by disney and I am considering trying Tauck as Disney has consideringly raised their prices.The Austria trip has gone up at least $1000  since it was introduced.Does Tauck offer the added special touches like VIP entrance to museums, water magically appearing when you need it, photo C.D's?



From my experience with Tauck:

VIP experience - Yes
Water magically appearing - Yes
Photo CD -depends.  On our first TB trip our tour director took photos during the tour and burned CDs for each family that she passed out at the farewell dinner.  On our second tour our tour directors made a slideshow (much like the one ABD does) and showed it at the farewell dinner.  But I think it's at the tour directors discretion.  I hope they receive a lot of positive feedback and make this a standard part of the package.

We got 2 free hotel nights as return Tauck guests last year, but they lowered it to 1 free night this year, which is still a nice perk.  For the Bridges trips the tour directors gratuity is also included in the cost of the tour.  For the non-Bridges Tauck trips, the gratuity is not included.


----------



## Bobo912

sayhello said:


> I just need to ask.  Is this "regular" Tauck, or Tauck Bridges?  I've heard the 2 are quite different, and I haven't seen anything that says Tauck Bridges is welcoming to single travelers.  Have I missed that?
> 
> Sayhello



I think Tauck is very welcoming to solo travelers, but probably more so on the World Discovery or Culturious trips. Since there are many more destinations and departures for the regular trips, they don't really have a reason to encourage solo travelers on the Bridges trips.  But I often see offers where they drop the single supplement on the regular trips.  I think there is more VIP treatment on the non-TB trips than the TB tours.  The regular trips, with similar itineraries, are often a day to two longer and visit more locations.  Sometimes they use the same hotels, but if there is any difference, the regular trips usually have even better accommodations.  For instance, on our TB trip to Northern CA, we stayed at the Tenaya Lodge, which was very nice, but was outside of Yosemite.  The Tauck World Discovery trip that visits Yosemite stays at The Ahwahnee.  Tauck has a page on their website with information on solo travel and they also have a Solo Travel Forum on their discussion board.


----------



## sayhello

Bobo912 said:


> I think Tauck is very welcoming to solo travelers, but probably more so on the World Discovery or Culturious trips. Since there are many more destinations and departures for the regular trips, they don't really have a reason to encourage solo travelers on the Bridges trips.  But I often see offers where they drop the single supplement on the regular trips.  I think there is more VIP treatment on the non-TB trips than the TB tours.  The regular trips, with similar itineraries, are often a day to two longer and visit more locations.  Sometimes they use the same hotels, but if there is any difference, the regular trips usually have even better accommodations.  For instance, on our TB trip to Northern CA, we stayed at the Tenaya Lodge, which was very nice, but was outside of Yosemite.  The Tauck World Discovery trip that visits Yosemite stays at The Ahwahnee.  Tauck has a page on their website with information on solo travel and they also have a Solo Travel Forum on their discussion board.


Thanks for the info, Bobo912.  I'm definitely going to look into them.  I guess I sort of assumed the Bridges tours were more VIP (more like ABD) but it seems I was wrong! 

Sayhello


----------



## Phil1019

Well, thank you everyone for your input re: differences  in Tauck vs ABD. I have decided to go with Tauck bridges this year. I really love ABD as I have been on 4 of their adventures. The prices for ABD just keep getting higher and higher for basically the same tour as ABD (London and Paris)  I save $3000 for 2 adults by booking with Tauck.Tauck Bridges tours are booking up very  quickly! All hotels are 5 star and activities similar to ABD.


----------



## Bobo912

Phil1019 said:


> Well, thank you everyone for your input re: differences  in Tauck vs ABD. I have decided to go with Tauck bridges this year. I really love ABD as I have been on 4 of their adventures. The prices for ABD just keep getting higher and higher for basically the same tour as ABD (London and Paris)  I save $3000 for 2 adults by booking with Tauck.Tauck Bridges tours are booking up very  quickly! All hotels are 5 star and activities similar to ABD.



Congratulations!  Hope you have a wonderful trip!  We have really enjoyed our TB trips.  We're doing another ABD this summer, but I doubt that I will even consider ABD for 2015 or beyond.


----------



## Lewisc

For those posters who took a Tauck Bridges tour...How many guests were couples and how many were famlies (with kids)? Just my 2 cents....Sure looks like Disney copied Tauck tours, added some Disney elements (movie) and was able to charge a price premium.


----------



## Bobo912

Lewisc said:


> For those posters who took a Tauck Bridges tour...How many guests were couples and how many were famlies (with kids)? Just my 2 cents....Sure looks like Disney copied Tauck tours, added some Disney elements (movie) and was able to charge a price premium.



Tauck Bridges trips are almost exclusively families with kids. Tauck has other tours (World Discovery, Culturious) that are more geared toward adults, although you can bring kids on the World Discovery tours (don't know about Culturious), but I don't think many people do.  We had one couple on our first TB trip who couldn't get the date they needed on the similar World Discovery trip.  Our second TB trip was a river cruise.  There was one older lady with her two middle aged daughters, but other than that I think all the rest were families with kids - several of them multigenerational.


----------



## AddictedtoTravel

I know that ABD does not do river cruises but I am having trouble finding real feedback. I am looking to take my parents and my 14 year old daughter on a river cruise to eastern Europe. It looks like Uniworld, Tauck and Viking all cruise there. Anyone have an idea where I can find reviews, information regarding the ships and the included tours. How do the manage the daily tours, what size groups ... Thank you!


----------



## Bobo912

AddictedtoTravel said:


> I know that ABD does not do river cruises but I am having trouble finding real feedback. I am looking to take my parents and my 14 year old daughter on a river cruise to eastern Europe. It looks like Uniworld, Tauck and Viking all cruise there. Anyone have an idea where I can find reviews, information regarding the ships and the included tours. How do the manage the daily tours, what size groups ... Thank you!



I have been on the Tauck Bridges Danube River Cruise and it was fantastic.  You can probably find some reviews on the Tauck website or Cruise Critic.  Uniworld also has a few family cruises, which I'm considering for the future, but I haven't found any feeback on those yet.  Viking allows children over 12, but they specifically say on their website that they don't maintain facilities or services for children and they reserve the right to limit the number of guests under 18.  So they don't sound very family friendly.  TB has activites onboard and off specifically for the kids.  If you have any specific questions, I'll be happy to answer, if I can.  I may have posted some post-trip comments on this forum, but not a review, since it wasn't ABD and ABD has no comparable trips.


----------



## familygoboston

AddictedtoTravel said:


> I know that ABD does not do river cruises but I am having trouble finding real feedback. I am looking to take my parents and my 14 year old daughter on a river cruise to eastern Europe. It looks like Uniworld, Tauck and Viking all cruise there. Anyone have an idea where I can find reviews, information regarding the ships and the included tours. How do the manage the daily tours, what size groups ... Thank you!



I wish ABD would have some river cruises! I haven't taken one yet, but, if allowed here, I will share what I have learned while planning our upcoming Sept river cruise on the Danube, from Budapest, through Central and Eastern Europe to Bucharest and ending in Istanbul, Turkey. 

I started by going to Cruise Critic, there is a forum board there called "river cruising"; I started by reading as many "which line should I take" type threads. This helped me winnow a cruise that work for our travel party (just me and my DH, youngish, very active  50s with no kids traveling) Based on that I chose AMA, as their average age skews 50 ish and they offer many more "active" amenities that appealed to us.  If you are traveling with a teen and grandparents, you might want to look at a line like AMA or Tauck that specializes in a mix of active and "gentle walker" excursions. Their aren't a lot in the way of "kids" activities on the standard lines, but if you choose an itinerary that has ports every day with little day time cruising, you can select excursions that will appeal to your family group and to your 14 yo.

After getting an idea of the best line for your family, move on to ABD trip reports, Trip Advisor and the Cruise Critic River Cruising port boards to search the cities and towns on the itinerary of your chosen line.  These will help you discover what to do in each port.  The ABD reports with "pre nights" reviewed will help you find guides and sample itineraries for the major Central tend Eastern European capitals.  These sites are especially useful in getting good advice and reviews for private guides in the cities.  This will likely be cheaper for 5 of you than taking ships excursions and you can tailor your touring to the mixed interests of your group.

I also invested in Rick Steeves books for the specific cities in my itinerary; Budapest, Istanbul. These were highly recommended to my by people who have been and my TA, for that part of the world.  I also got the DK guide books for those cities.  We love DK for its photos and trip useable " attraction" maps, especially in countries were the language is so different, and the guide books or maps at the attraction may not be in well translated English. Also, when traveling with a group, DK, is a great "flip through" book, where family members can look through quickly, and if a photo of an attraction or activity appeals, stick a little post it on it, and then you can sketch a rough tour itinerary from that.  The multitude of pictures make sit it easier to show your group what's there vs everyone reading a 300 page book! 

I made a spreadsheet with the approx prices and amenities offered by each line, but in the end, we chose based on what seemed like the right match, and that required a lot of reading reviews both by travelers and by editors of travel websites! 

On last thing- Wendy Perrin of Conde Naste Traveler did a very nice review of several lines...
http://www.cntraveler.com/cruises/2012/08/cruise-special/european-river-cruise-revolution

Now, my own opinion, is that she was very biased towards, going inexpensively and touring on her own, so she didn't take into account the same concerns you might have traveling with 3 generations and wanting some more options than she needed.  She also obviously didn't get to preview every line and was mostly on a given lines "newest ships" (since that's what's being "promoted" by the lines) , but it's a great starting point to get a "feel" for the various lines. 

Best of luck! If you are planning for further out than Oct 2014 ( and I hope so, cabins on river cruises fill fast, and less than 6 months might be tough to find 2-3 cabins on the itinerary and dates you want) I will be doing a full review under this same screen name late next fall. It won't be on the ABD Boards, but you can find it by googling!

I'm hoping what I've shared is helpful and not so off the topic that I've offended the mods here Maybe one day soon, there will be an ABD river cruise to review!


----------



## carpenta

We did the Tauck Bridges Danube sailing last year and it was really first class. The ship is beautiful and the crew could not do enough for you. The crew went out of their way to spoil the kids on board. The passengers were a lot of multi generational families and kids from 7 yrs. through late teens. The kids got along quite well and Tauck did have special events for the kids. Tauck ships only hold 108 passengers which is smaller than others but only the ship itself is not smaller than the others. All the excursions are included in their price as tips and transportation to and from the ship too. It is an all inclusive experience as opposed to others. They do break the groups up in different times for some excursions but others all go to Vienna for the concert in a castle on busses. On the bike riding event we were to sign up the day before and a bike company met us at the dock and had the bikes and helmets waiting for us as we toured along the Danube into a small town for ice cream. Everyone LOVED that excursion believe me. We never felt crowded nor herded in any tour. We are returning to Italy this year with Tauck on another Bridges tour as well as next year on a river tour. Tauck is a first rate guided tour company which as stated before ABD seemed to imitate in their business model. If you have specific questions I too would be happy to answer as best I can.


----------



## Bobo912

carpenta said:


> We did the Tauck Bridges Danube sailing last year and it was really first class. The ship is beautiful and the crew could not do enough for you. The crew went out of their way to spoil the kids on board. The passengers were a lot of multi generational families and kids from 7 yrs. through late teens. The kids got along quite well and Tauck did have special events for the kids. Tauck ships only hold 108 passengers which is smaller than others but only the ship itself is not smaller than the others. All the excursions are included in their price as tips and transportation to and from the ship too. It is an all inclusive experience as opposed to others. They do break the groups up in different times for some excursions but others all go to Vienna for the concert in a castle on busses. On the bike riding event we were to sign up the day before and a bike company met us at the dock and had the bikes and helmets waiting for us as we toured along the Danube into a small town for ice cream. Everyone LOVED that excursion believe me. We never felt crowded nor herded in any tour. We are returning to Italy this year with Tauck on another Bridges tour as well as next year on a river tour. Tauck is a first rate guided tour company which as stated before ABD seemed to imitate in their business model. If you have specific questions I too would be happy to answer as best I can.



carpenta, which river cruise are you doing next year?  I've got an ever-growing list of possibilities that includes the TB France river cruise and the new Rhine cruise that they've added for 2015, as well as a few other Tauck trips and some of the other river cruise companies.  No ABDs unless they make some changes.  I'm going to let DS review the list and see which one he is most interested in.  He will probably tell me to pick, and it is so hard!


----------



## carpenta

Bobo912 said:


> carpenta, which river cruise are you doing next year?  I've got an ever-growing list of possibilities that includes the TB France river cruise and the new Rhine cruise that they've added for 2015, as well as a few other Tauck trips and some of the other river cruise companies.  No ABDs unless they make some changes.  I'm going to let DS review the list and see which one he is most interested in.  He will probably tell me to pick, and it is so hard!



 We are looking at the Netherlands-Belgium southbound river cruise next year. We are trying to get our schedule set now.....wish me luck! Tauck has launched (or pretty close) a new ship that sounds as great or greater than the ships they have now.


----------



## Woodview

Hi All,

     Have a look at these    River Cruise Co.   & see what you think.

 (a)    uniworldrivercruises.co.uk

 (b)  www. rivieratravel.co.uk       & river cruise  section


----------



## Bobo912

carpenta said:


> We are looking at the Netherlands-Belgium southbound river cruise next year. We are trying to get our schedule set now.....wish me luck! Tauck has launched (or pretty close) a new ship that sounds as great or greater than the ships they have now.



Good Luck!    It's interesting how they've designed some of the lower level cabins on the new ships to be split level and have bigger windows.  And the bathroom is bigger.  That's definitely an improvement!


----------



## AddictedtoTravel

Thank you for all of your input. My folks really want to see Eastern Europe (Budapest to the Black Sea) so Tauck Bridges isn't an option but Tauck is. In addition AMA and Viking also have similar itineraries. Based on your input and what I've been able to read online I am leaning toward Tauck. I like the idea of a smaller ship and the activities sound great. I look forward to your trip report familygoboston. We will be go next summer or the following, depending on what life hands us along the way


----------



## familygoboston

AddictedtoTravel said:


> Thank you for all of your input. My folks really want to see Eastern Europe (Budapest to the Black Sea) so Tauck Bridges isn't an option but Tauck is. In addition AMA and Viking also have similar itineraries. Based on your input and what I've been able to read online I am leaning toward Tauck. I like the idea of a smaller ship and the activities sound great. I look forward to your trip report familygoboston. We will be go next summer or the following, depending on what life hands us along the way



Good! that will motivate me to do a review afterwards!


----------



## carpenta

Just received an E-mail from Tauck and they are now offering a family cruise on their new ship sailing on the Rhone river between Basil and Amsterdam. Sounds great.


----------



## wallawallakids

Anyone done both?  Looking to see how they compare to each other.  Prices are close, AA is a little less maybe.  Thanks.


----------



## EllinK

Yes, we are looking at them too.  Not for this year, though.  Would love to hear from someone who has done both.


----------



## carpenta

You should look at Tauck Bridges tours too. They are very similar but Tauck is all inclusive even the tips....We do both ABD and Tauck and both are great.


----------



## tgeorge

I realize that this is probably the wrong place to ask this question, but I'm curious how many of you have done a European vacation on your own?  I'm having a really hard time deciding what to do.  Since I'll be going solo and it will be my first solo trip out of the country I think going with a tour would be the way to go, but I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the cost.  I'm debating either doing London and Paris on my own or Italy with ABD.  The biggest problem is I KNOW that once I do an ABD I will become addicted and there will be no turning back  I can afford it.maybe not one a year, but I could definitely do one every couple of years, and I KNOW I will love it.  I love all things Disney.  My husband does not like to travel so I don't force the issue.  He will do long weekends with me in the US, but I'm ready to venture out and see the world.  Traveling is definitely something I've always wanted to do.  This trip would be to celebrate my 40th birthday in 2016.  Just trying to see what everyone else out there has experience with their travels and hopefully help me make up my mind.  I know I have plenty of time to make the decision, but what can I say.I'm a planner


----------



## Tozzie

tgeorge said:


> I realize that this is probably the wrong place to ask this question, but I'm curious how many of you have done a European vacation on your own?  I'm having a really hard time deciding what to do.  Since I'll be going solo and it will be my first solo trip out of the country I think going with a tour would be the way to go, but I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the cost.  I'm debating either doing London and Paris on my own or Italy with ABD.  The biggest problem is I KNOW that once I do an ABD I will become addicted and there will be no turning back  I can afford it.maybe not one a year, but I could definitely do one every couple of years, and I KNOW I will love it.  I love all things Disney.  My husband does not like to travel so I don't force the issue.  He will do long weekends with me in the US, but I'm ready to venture out and see the world.  Traveling is definitely something I've always wanted to do.  This trip would be to celebrate my 40th birthday in 2016.  Just trying to see what everyone else out there has experience with their travels and hopefully help me make up my mind.  I know I have plenty of time to make the decision, but what can I say.I'm a planner



I travel solo and I love ABD,  I have completed 5 ABD trips and I have 6 booked for later this year and 7 booked for next year.  I like not having to plan anything just show up when I am told.  I also like ABD for the front of the line access the special surprises and in a country where I don't speak the language it is a relief to know that I don't have to worry about it.  I also feel that since I travel solo it is safer to do it with a tour group and obviously I like ABD.


----------



## sayhello

I agree with everything that Tozzie said.  I'm taking solo ABD #5 this summer, and have #6 scheduled for 2015.  Besides the reasons she lists, is the fact that I enjoy having fellow travelers.  I like having my own room, and being able to retreat there, but also having someone to go to meals with, someone to talk to about what happened that day, and what's planned for the next day.  Someone to turn to and say "WOW!  Look at that!" without them thinking I'm crazy.  Someone to take photos of me in the places we go.  I like having my luggage disappear from my room and magically appear in my room at the next hotel.  And I really, really love ABD's Adventure Guides.  They are really, really amazing!

I *am* spoiled by ABD.  Totally and completely.  I know their itineraries are well-thought-out, diverse, creative, fun, fascinating.  So far, I can afford to do one ABD a year.  I'm likely going to keep doing that until I can't afford it anymore.  

Sayhello


----------



## Cousin Orville

We travel internationally with ABD and on our own depending on the circumstances.  ABD is my favorite way to travel although both have their advantages.  I would recommend trying ABD if you are going solo and this is your first trip.  It will make everything easier, less stressful, and a lot of fun with the group.


----------



## tgeorge

You guys are fantastic!!  Thank you so much for the responses.  I've definitely decided that ABD is the way to go.  There are SO many itineraries to choose from, and honestly, I would love all of them!  Now I just have to decide if the London/Paris trip or the Italy trip is right for me.  Although, Cousin Orville, you have me very excited about China and maybe that can be my second   I think being a solo traveler, and a woman, I would definitely feel safer making my first trip out of the country one with a group.  

Thanks everyone!!!  Luckily I have until about May 2015 to make my decision and then I can book it.


----------



## kristilew

I have done ABDs and traveled internationally with my family and alone.  I would say it isn't an "either/or."  The ABDs gave me lots of great ideas on what I should schedule when we're doing trips without them, and helped me figure out how I like to travel.  The on my own or just my family trips are fun and exciting in their own way, and I like to set my own pace.  

London and Paris are definitely easy to do on your own, and you can easily put together a trip for yourself that hits many of the highlights that ABD does, for much less money.  Especially London, where there is no language barrier and there are always other tourists around.  I did Paris just myself and DD (11 at the time) and found that pretty manageable too.

We save the ABDs for  countries where there would be a safety or language concern, or where we would want to see things in places far enough apart that the logistics would be a hassle.  Italy counts as one of these for my family, which is why we are doing the ABD there this year.  

After each of our ABDs, we've felt empowered to go back to that country on our own, if we ever have the time. (There are so many NEW places to go first!)  We'd go back to Peru and stay at Sol y Luna in a heartbeat, and we definitely want to go back to the Galapagos and spend a whole week on a ship there.

One thing I learned from the Adventures though, is it is worth it to hire a guide for at least a half day or day, even if you are going mostly on your own.  Learning about where you are from someone passionate about the area is a treasure and adds value to the rest of the trip.


----------



## AquaDame

kristilew said:


> I have done ABDs and traveled internationally with my family and alone.  I would say it isn't an "either/or."  The ABDs gave me lots of great ideas on what I should schedule when we're doing trips without them, and helped me figure out how I like to travel.  The on my own or just my family trips are fun and exciting in their own way, and I like to set my own pace.
> 
> London and Paris are definitely easy to do on your own, and you can easily put together a trip for yourself that hits many of the highlights that ABD does, for much less money.  Especially London, where there is no language barrier and there are always other tourists around.  I did Paris just myself and DD (11 at the time) and found that pretty manageable too.
> 
> We save the ABDs for  countries where there would be a safety or language concern, or where we would want to see things in places far enough apart that the logistics would be a hassle.  Italy counts as one of these for my family, which is why we are doing the ABD there this year.
> 
> After each of our ABDs, we've felt empowered to go back to that country on our own, if we ever have the time. (There are so many NEW places to go first!)  We'd go back to Peru and stay at Sol y Luna in a heartbeat, and we definitely want to go back to the Galapagos and spend a whole week on a ship there.
> 
> One thing I learned from the Adventures though, is it is worth it to hire a guide for at least a half day or day, even if you are going mostly on your own.  Learning about where you are from someone passionate about the area is a treasure and adds value to the rest of the trip.



This! I was debating the Norway trip next summer and sat down a couple of days ago and plowed through their itinerary adding up the costs of doing it on our own - staying in the same hotels, doing the same activities. What I found was that we have a $6,500 buffer to cover our meals and car. We won't have a guide for the whole time of course, but since neither of us feel unsafe in Norway we've decided to do it on our own and save the money for our Africa trip where we will do ABD for the safety. We'll likely do that to get used to things and then go up to Kenya afterwards for another week on our own. If we rent a car and go we'll be able to do and see things that ABD isn't planning on, and we are OK not making cheese and having the entertainment our last night, etc (the intangibles that I couldn't figure out how to do solo). $6500 is just too much to have our luggage moved for us! 

My husband has never done a Europe trip but I have been three times, once with a school group and twice on my own with one other traveling companion. This includes a month in Paris where I spent the days alone while my ex was working - I never felt unsafe and the metro was easy to navigate. I also spent some time alone in Tokyo & Kyoto wandering around and felt fine then too. I'm ok with getting a little lost, having some language barriers and eating unknown meat so I think we will be fine this time too.


----------



## pihanettie

I choose ABD for "special" things that I wouldn't have been able to do on my own (the special access at the Coliseum and private tour of the Sistine Chapel in Italy).


----------



## mare1203

Our family did London/Paris on our own and just completed the Italy ABD. I found myself thinking 'man, how much more would we have seen if we had done London and Paris as an ABD?!?'. They are so efficient at getting the group to places and you never have to book your own entrance time or rarely wait in line. The sheer time we spent getting to the Tower of London or Versailles or the Eiffel Tower wouldn't have been an issue with ABD because they take care of it. With Italy, we packed a ton of stuff into the days and were able to see so much of what Italy has to offer. We loved it. I feel like this trip made me feel more comfortable and confident with going back sometime and not being disappointed because we've already hit the big stuff. 

We had a solo traveler on our adventure and she said she had a great time. She got to know the families very well and said she was invited to dinner every single night. By the end of the trip she had eaten with each and every family at least once. I thought that was pretty cool!


----------



## tgeorge

Thanks again everyone for all the comments. They have definitely helped and I appreciate you all taking the time to comment. I do have one more question that I'm hoping some of you can weigh in on. Someone brought up the idea of doing a European cruise. I like the idea because you can see more, but at the same time you lose the time to explore different cities. For those of you that have done both, what would you recommend for someone who has not been to Europe? More time in a couple of cities or a lot of stops in various cities for more exposure?


----------



## SingingMom

Never having traveled to Europe before, ABD was a perfect choice for us. You can certainly plan trips on your own, but that "front of the line" perk mentioned previously is why we love it!  The "regular" line at Versailles was wrapped around the plaza - we just waited for our time slot and walked in the door!  Same at the Eiffel Tower!  The opportunity to stay at a castle in Germany...  So many neat extras PLUS meeting some of the nicest people who have become great friends!

"SingingMom" ....Sent from my iPad using DISBoards


----------



## sayhello

tgeorge said:


> Thanks again everyone for all the comments. They have definitely helped and I appreciate you all taking the time to comment. I do have one more question that I'm hoping some of you can weigh in on. Someone brought up the idea of doing a European cruise. I like the idea because you can see more, but at the same time you lose the time to explore different cities. For those of you that have done both, what would you recommend for someone who has not been to Europe? More time in a couple of cities or a lot of stops in various cities for more exposure?


I did a Med cruise in 2010 with the ABD add-on.  It was the perfect way to do a cruise.  We were able to get the equivalent of 2 or 3 amazing excursions in each day.  And there is something to be said for only unpacking/packing once or twice for a cruise, vs 3 or 4 times for some ABD's.

That said, I much prefer my land-based European ABD's.  I like being able to see a place in the evening and at night, and to wander around where the hotel is.  You can't do any of that on a cruise.   Most ports, we were out of there between 3 and 4pm, heading back to the ship.  And a lot of the ports (especially in Italy) were pretty far away from where you actually wanted to be (like Rome and Florence).  If I had to choose, I would definitely choose the land-based ABD.  But that's just me.  I'm sure others would choose the cruise.

Sayhello


----------



## Tozzie

tgeorge said:


> Thanks again everyone for all the comments. They have definitely helped and I appreciate you all taking the time to comment. I do have one more question that I'm hoping some of you can weigh in on. Someone brought up the idea of doing a European cruise. I like the idea because you can see more, but at the same time you lose the time to explore different cities. For those of you that have done both, what would you recommend for someone who has not been to Europe? More time in a couple of cities or a lot of stops in various cities for more exposure?



I have done 4 European ABD trips and 2 Med cruises.   I guess the answer depends on what you want to do.    I enjoyed both for different reasons.   The cruises were great  to see a lot in a little time and the ABD trps went more in depth.    I can't give you a good answer as I liked both.


I do disagree with Kristilew, I went to London on my own after scotland and I feel I would have enjoyed it more and gotten more out of the trip if I did it with ABD.  It is all about preference.


----------



## Cousin Orville

tgeorge said:


> Thanks again everyone for all the comments. They have definitely helped and I appreciate you all taking the time to comment. I do have one more question that I'm hoping some of you can weigh in on. Someone brought up the idea of doing a European cruise. I like the idea because you can see more, but at the same time you lose the time to explore different cities. For those of you that have done both, what would you recommend for someone who has not been to Europe? More time in a couple of cities or a lot of stops in various cities for more exposure?



I'm doing our 4th European cruise in a little over a week (1 Baltic and 3 Meds, all DCL).  I've done 1 European ABD, and travelled on our own many times.  I prefer ABD but cruises have their advantages.  They're better for young kids (<7yo) which we have.  They're often longer trips than one ABD. 12 vs 7-9 days.  They're a balance between traveling and relaxing on the ship (evenings and sea days).  They give much more of a Disney feel if you're looking for that such as having Characters, and visuals/music/atmosphere... It's a Disney cruise after all.  I think the cruises can give a broad view of the Med including a wide range of ports such as Nice, Rome, Athens, etc.  Or it can be more tightly focused.  Our upcoming cruise will concentrate primarily on Greek isles.  ABD has the advantage of being even more focused and the touring never really ends in the evening like a cruise does.  The biggest advantage of ABD are the guides and traveling with other families that you get to know.  I prefer ABD but they're both good, especially for a first European trip.

I'd say if you have young kids or you've enjoyed previous DCL cruises, you should do a European cruise first, then dive into ABD.  If you're family is older and you're not cruisers now, I'd do an ABD.  Or you can do a cruise with an ABD add on if you want some of both worlds.


----------



## starry_solo

Rome is easy to explore on your own, as is Paris and London (although I've only gone as part of a tour group, we usually had 1-2 free ways in the beginning of the trip so I explored Rome with friends without a tour guide). 

My sister and I usually travel once a year to Europe and so far we have been in Rome 3 or 4 times (separate trips.)

I think for certain trips, a tour is the way to go.  If you find you really like the country/city and want to explore it on your own, just think of it as something to plan for the next trip, that's what we do 

I did forget to add that, eventually, I will make it on an ABD trip   On my bucket list of things to do.


----------



## paddles

We'll be taking our 3rd ABD European trip in August (this time to Germany). I've traveled a lot on my own in Europe and other parts of the world, but I chose ABD because I wanted my kids to enjoy the trip (and I feel ABD does a really good job with this).  The other reason to go with ABD is that I get tired of doing all the planning sometimes, and its nice to have a week when someone else is worrying about all the details.  

I have found that with ABD tours, I need to add several pre and post days to really see the cities I want in the depth I'd like. ABD does a good job finding unique experiences and finding smaller/off the beaten path areas of a country to explore, but that usually comes at the expense of spending more time in bigger cities.  I found this out the hard way during our Scotland trip last year, when I felt I barely saw Edinburgh and I was really heartbroken. They've changed the itinerary a bit (to add an Edinburgh castle tour and to warn people about missing Holyrood House during certain times in the summer) - but I thought the morning city tour was way too short (we spent more time on tapestry weaving)...and that really bummed me out and I feel like I need to go back to Edinburgh to see it.

For my Germany trip this August, we're spending 2 full days in Munich before the trip since the tour doesn't give adequate time there.  

I guess my point is that even if you do an ABD, you'll still need to spend some time on your own to plan out some key sightseeing.


----------



## amymeadors

I've learned so much browsing this thread.  thanks!


----------



## Woodview

To tgeorge,

 As an European  ( and a few years older than you ) my advice

is    GO WITH A GROUP   be it ABD  or any other Tour Operator 

    & there are many in Europe 

 WHY  go with a group ?  Well  Language   for a start.

  Your are an American   .... so they see you comming   

 Travel Transport  is  good   BUT  to travel on your own will be a hard thing to do.

          YES   you Will meet new Friends     >>>>  BUT will they be  YOUR

  FRIENDS    if you are in trouble.

....

   PS       NOt everywhere is  easy  to connect to Internet   as I have found out over the last 2 weeks  In South France  , Spain  & Andorra


----------



## mgsquared

Well just to provide a different perspective here... I am very familiar with the ABD central europe intenerary as I have bern doing all thise things regularly since I was a kid (every summer in Salzburg, etc). I can assure you that the same trip can be done for probably a third of the cost. Less if the hotels can be more local fancy hotels. I don't remember a single activity listed where the endtrance is more than 20€. Lots of these tickets can be bought online in advance. 
There are tons of tour groups once you are here that you could jpin or from America that for sure cost less. 
Also, those 3 places in one week is a crime. 

Since you don't have kids, why spend the extra money?


----------



## disneyphx

We are considering Tauck bridges for 2015, based on itinerary preference - TB Switzerland appeals more to us than ABD Italy/Switzerland. We have done 5 ABDs, and also did one Thomson family Adventures based of itinerary preference (Peru)
I wanted to check on a couple of things that I thought I had read but cannot seem to find:
- does TB have 1 or 2 guides?
- with TB do you get to order from a full menu more often? and have fewer preorders.

Also, if anyone knows
- how often does TB include alcohol? I know ABD is only occasionally, but in Central Europe it was every lunch and dinner - not a deal breaker but a nice treat!

Thanks
Michele


----------



## carpenta

disneyphx said:


> We are considering Tauck bridges for 2015, based on itinerary preference - TB Switzerland appeals more to us than ABD Italy/Switzerland. We have done 5 ABDs, and also did one Thomson family Adventures based of itinerary preference (Peru)
> I wanted to check on a couple of things that I thought I had read but cannot seem to find:
> - does TB have 1 or 2 guides?
> - with TB do you get to order from a full menu more often? and have fewer preorders.
> 
> Also, if anyone knows
> - how often does TB include alcohol? I know ABD is only occasionally, but in Central Europe it was every lunch and dinner - not a deal breaker but a nice treat!
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks
> Michele


T.B. has one guide that stays with the group and local guides that go with the group at every stop. We just did T.B. to Italy in April and our 13 yr. old daughter loved it. We ordered off a menu when we ate at the restaurants except when we had special dinners like the pizza making for kids in Florence. I think the food choices is better on T.B.. In Italy wine and beer was included and in Venice our table won the prize for most bottles drunk. On all T.B. trips the tips are included for the guide too. We go back and forth between T.B. and ABD and like you choose the trip that appeals to us the best. You will not be disappointed at T.B. but really impressed on the quality. Any other questions I hope I could answer.


----------



## mouselike-harrier

We are also considering TB in 2015 based on itinerary preferences.  Thanks for posting about your experiences.  I like the idea that the guides' gratuities are included so we don't have to come up with the extra money while we are in Europe.  Has anyone done a regular Tauck tour, not Bridges, with teenagers?


----------



## TammyAlphabet

mouselike-harrier said:


> We are also considering TB in 2015 based on itinerary preferences.  Thanks for posting about your experiences.  I like the idea that the guides' gratuities are included so we don't have to come up with the extra money while we are in Europe.  Has anyone done a regular Tauck tour, not Bridges, with teenagers?



I have done the Australia and New Zealand with my DD when she was 14.  There were other families with teens on our trip.  Tauck is top notch and we have done three trips with them.  Highly recommended.


----------



## jamieann

I'm sure Adventures by Disney is "worth the money" and an incredible experience, but that doesn't make it feasible for everyone. Has anyone had experience with any other tour company that is similar but less expensive? The things that are most appealing to me about ABD are how everything is planned out, the varied activities (not just sightseeing all day every day), and the included transportation. The things I would be willing to compromise on would be those extra Disney touches like the fact that you never touch your luggage, etc. 

I hope to be able to take an ABD trip someday, but in the meantime, any alternatives?


----------



## Rapunzellover

Tauck and Tauck Bridges are probably closest, but not on the cheap side either. 

How much cheaper do you wanna go?


----------



## jamieann

Well, for instance, I'm most interested in Greece ABD trip which runs around 5500-6000 and doesn't include airfare. If I could find a company that offers something similar (again, I know it won't be exactly the same level of service) for 3000-4000, I think that would be more feasible.

Just like with the Disney Cruise Line you're paying for the extra Disney touches and the incredible level of service, but other cruise lines are significantly cheaper. Just wondering if there's a similar model for ABD?


----------



## sayhello

I could be searching incorrectly, but it looks like the only Greece tour Tauck does is a cruise, and is longer than the ABD trip, but more expensive.  I'm having a hard time finding much of anything in a Greece tour that isn't a cruise.

There's another company, Insight, that does a land-based Greece tour, but I really know nothing about them.  They appear to be cheaper, but I've seen their tours given five stars (same as Disney) on some sights I've visited.

Sayhello


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

I wish there was! But ABD's are a VIP/luxury product and unfortunately they cost luxury prices. If you are looking for a similar upmarket type of product, Tauck seems to be the closest from what I've heard from people who'd done both, but as SayHello pointed out, they don't always have similar itineraries and you don't always save much. If you were simply looking for a more general family friendly tour company that won't have all the bells and whistles, to my knowledge I'm not aware of one. Definitely seems like a market that needs to be tapped.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Rick Steves operates tours in Europe.  The hotels aren't as nice as Disney, but they tend to be centrally located.  You have to take care of your own luggage.  The price is very reasonable for what is offered.

There is also Austin.  They are an active tour company -- i.e. biking across France.  I wish I had a traveling companion that was interested in that because I would love to try one of those trips!


----------



## NancyIL

I would love to take a Rick Steves tour some day: http://www.ricksteves.com/tours


----------



## Judyat

We have done ABD a few times. We have also done Gate 1 travel. I like both of them. I agree the ABD are expensive and we used DVC points both times so it didn't seem so expensive. While we loved the ABD trips we did not like adding on airfare to an already expensive trip. With Gate 1 you can pick your flights and see exactly when they will be. This is a real advantage for us since we don't like early morning flights. We also like nonstop whenever possible. You also have the option to do flights on your own. If you pay by check you get another 5% off and payment is not due until 45 days before the trip. A small down payment does it. If you sign up for emails they come out with weekly specials.


----------



## RSM

If you are looking for lower cost family style tours, I have researched Go Ahead and Trafalgar.  Both have tours that are designed for families amongst their offerings.  We haven't done either one of them yet, but we are doing Trafalgar's Spanish Salsa tour this summer.  It looks like the biggest difference is the hotel quality and location (not as centrally located).  We don't spend alot of time in the hotel, and we have gotten pretty good at getting around European cities on our own, so a centrally located luxury hotel is not a huge criteria for us.  From what I gather, the more economical tour operators also tend to use more local guides.  Your tour director is there but more or less manages the tour.  Anyways, later this summer we'll have a data point to compare an economy tour operator to a higher end ABD.


----------



## disneyphx

We have done 4 ABD trips (5 for DH and DD) and loved each one.
For Peru, we went with Thomson Family Adventues - ABD does not stay near Macchu Picchu which I really really wanted to do and their  trip does 2 nights in the town near there. The trip was fabulous - only 1 guide though - but with only 5 guests total it really did not matter. Hotels etc were  very similar. The trip was a bit cheaper than ABD I think. And lucking out with an almost private tour was amazing! I would not hesitate to use them again.
This summer we are trying Tauck Bridges in Switzerland - again we preferred the itinerary to the ABD one.
Next we are thinking East Africa which ABD does not do (ABD South Africa was fantastic!) - will most likely be Thomson or Tauck Bridges. If you really want sticker shock, look at Abercrombie and Kent family trips.....


----------



## DisFan10

jamieann said:


> I'm sure Adventures by Disney is "worth the money" and an incredible experience, but that doesn't make it feasible for everyone. Has anyone had experience with any other tour company that is similar but less expensive? The things that are most appealing to me about ABD are how everything is planned out, the varied activities (not just sightseeing all day every day), and the included transportation. The things I would be willing to compromise on would be those extra Disney touches like the fact that you never touch your luggage, etc.
> 
> I hope to be able to take an ABD trip someday, but in the meantime, any alternatives?




A friend has taken several trips with G-Adventures, a low-budget tour company.  She knows she's getting what she pays for (which is very little), but her philosophy is that she's getting the opportunity to visit a foreign country that she wouldn't be able to afford otherwise.  If you're okay with no-frills traveling and paying extra to get your own room, then you may want to take a look at this company.

Here is their website:  https://www.gadventures.com/

Here is a link to their Greece trip ($2,299 for 15 days and group size of 12-16 people):

https://www.gadventures.com/trips/best-of-greece/EGBG/2015/


----------



## WDWmom08

Does anyone have any experience with Classic Journeys?


----------



## kmc33

I am resurrecting an old thread. Ironically I came across it doing a search to see if I can ask more about Tauck Bridges on this forum and this thread posed the the same question I wanted to ask about.  

We have done two ABD trips and loved them.  We were planning to book Viva Italy for next year (DH, DS16 and me).  Then I started reading about issues with triple occupancy and I started looking at Tauck and have found that for 2016, ABD is ~$5700 and Tauck Bridges~$4100 per person.  They are very similar trips, although the ABD trip is one extra day, but that is still a big difference in price.  The ABD total would be slightly less with the travel agent incentive.

So, have a feeling I am missing something as to what accounts for the price difference.  But in searching some information here, it sounds like there are a lot of ABDers who have used Tauck and have been pleased. 

A couple questions about Tauck Bridges:

Do the Tauck prices rise as the trip fills as ABD prices do?  
It looks like you lose your deposit if you have to cancel your trip, like ABD, but will Tauck allow you to move your trip to a different departure after you book without penalty (assuming availability)?
Does Tauck offer any incentives or early booking offers?
Do they have the "front of the line access" that ABD has?

TIA for your feedback!


----------



## aggiedog

I haven't done either, yet, but spoke extensively with Tauck regarding their Danube river cruise.  I can tell you that if you buy their trip insurance, at $500/person, you get your deposit back. So, pay $500, to get $800 back.  That was one reason we decided to sign up for the ABD Danube cruise, because when you added that cost on, the trips ended up being closer in price to each other.  No, we didn't get ABD insurance, but we'll only be out $300/person if we have to cancel. And I believe the PIF date is significantly closer to the trip for ABD than it was for Tauck, allowing us more time to see if my business will be having a good year, or a not so good year.


----------



## Bobo912

kmc33 said:


> A couple questions about Tauck Bridges:
> 
> Do the Tauck prices rise as the trip fills as ABD prices do?  No the price remains the same.
> It looks like you lose your deposit if you have to cancel your trip, like ABD, but will Tauck allow you to move your trip to a different departure after you book without penalty (assuming availability)? I've never needed to move my reservation, but I know people who have and I don't believe they paid a penalty.  I doubt that any company is going to have a policy that allows you to change your date without penalty.  ABD specifically says you can't, but we know sometimes they do anyway. Tauck will also place a hold on a trip for you (not sure for how long), if you haven't completely made up your mind yet, or at least they have in past years.
> Does Tauck offer any incentives or early booking offers?  I've never seen any incentives for first time guests, but returning guests receive a free pre or post hotel night, which is a nice perk. Also, some TAs have incentives, just like some have incentives for ABD.
> Do they have the "front of the line access" that ABD has?  Yes.
> 
> TIA for your feedback!



Answer above in red.  As far as cancelling goes, you can purchase Tauck's trip insurance.  For the Italy trip it is $275 pp.  I believe you only lose the cost of the insurance if you cancel.  You may have a travel agent you like to work with and not be interested in this, but if you have a Discover Card, and book a Tauck trip through their travel desk, you get 5% cash back.  Another thing to consider, Tauck Bridges tour director gratuities are included in the price of your trip, ABD guide's gratuities are not.  The tips for the guides are a big additional expense.


----------



## aggiedog

Interesting.  The ABD river cruise states gratuities are included.  And interesting the cost of insurance is different for different trips.


----------



## Bobo912

aggiedog said:


> Interesting.  The ABD river cruise states gratuities are included.  And interesting the cost of insurance is different for different trips.



The river cruise is the only ABD trip where gratuities are included.  Since it's a bigger group with more guides, it's probably too complicated to figure out who to tip and have it work out fairly for the guides.  That was a good decision by ABD to handle it that way.


----------



## kristilew

kmc33, you said you had the same questions as the OP.  Not sure if that includes the ones about the Spanish Steps and the Trevi fountain, but if so I wanted to share two factors - 

Trevi Fountain - not sure when it will be back to normal, but when we were on the Italy ABD in December, the Trevi fountain was drained and covered in scaffolding.   Quite ugly.  We did have a stop there on our whirlwind walking tour of Rome, and there is a tiny spot where they keep water for you to throw a coin over your shoulder, which our guides provided and they posed us for pictures, but until the fountain is actually working again, I wouldn't let that be a factor in one trip or another. 

Spanish Steps - This was the first stop of the day.  We were dropped off at the top, posed for pictures, then we walked down to the bottom.  We stood at the bottom for a bit, getting information on the embassies in the area, and posed for another photo.  It was neat at Christmastime because there was a beautiful nativity scene set up.  We were there pretty early in the day and the steps were empty.  If you were looking to get the feel of the Steps in their more famous "packed with people" mode, you would have to go on your own anyway.  

I know I'm one of the naysayers when it comes to triples, but I have to say that other than that, the Italy ABD was a "Mary Poppins trip" for us - practically perfect in every way.  Above all, it was incredibly relaxing.  I think it's something to do with how long it's been running, and how often the guides lead this trip. They anticipated every single question or desire we could have (probably because they've heard it all a hundred times) so we really did not have to think about a thing.  We felt it was worth every penny.  Of course, we haven't yet done a Tauck trip to compare....


----------



## laceltris3

I am thinking of doing the same and would love to hear about your experiences. The problem is when you have a family of 5, that $1500-2K difference per person on some itineraries really adds up, especially when you throw in the additional $800 or so in tips and the way ABD accommodates triples. While we find the markup on DCL to be "worth it" an extra $10K per trip is a bit much. We could do another 7 night on DCL for that!


----------



## Rapunzellover

Just wanna say, re: Trevi fountain, that my ABD guide said it's supposed to be finished later this year. So, if you're planning next year, you should be in luck.


----------



## kmc33

Thank you everyone for the responses and thank you Bobo912 for the answers to my detailed questions.  Very useful information!

In reference to the OP's question, it is the overall comparison of the ABD vs TB Italy trip that caught my eye and more specifically, if the cost is so different roughly $1600 per person, is the quality of the trip not as good as ABD?  I am a believer in "you get what you pay for" so I am having a hard time accepting that the TB trip may be as good.  And I love everything Disney, so it gives me some heartburn to break away.

The cost difference between the Italy trips is more significant than some of the other comparable trips.  Our first ABD was Ireland.  I did a good bit of research at the time and looked at Tauck Bridges, but the cost of the their Ireland trip and ABD's was very close; the cost was also close between the Grand Canyon trips, our second trip, so we stuck with ABD.  With a larger cost difference this time, we are thinking this might be the time to give Tauck a try.  I just hope on the trip I would not be constantly feeling like they weren't doing things as well as ABD.

So, final question, for those of you who have done both ABD and TB, did you feel like TB was second place compared to Disney?

Thank you so much for all your help. 
P.S.  If the OP is still hanging around, I would love to hear your feedback on the TB Italy trip.


----------



## Bobo912

kmc33 said:


> Thank you everyone for the responses and thank you Bobo912 for the answers to my detailed questions.  Very useful information!
> 
> In reference to the OP's question, it is the overall comparison of the ABD vs TB Italy trip that caught my eye and more specifically, if the cost is so different roughly $1600 per person, is the quality of the trip not as good as ABD?  I am a believer in "you get what you pay for" so I am having a hard time accepting that the TB trip may be as good.  And I love everything Disney, so it gives me some heartburn to break away.
> 
> The cost difference between the Italy trips is more significant than some of the other comparable trips.  Our first ABD was Ireland.  I did a good bit of research at the time and looked at Tauck Bridges, but the cost of the their Ireland trip and ABD's was very close; the cost was also close between the Grand Canyon trips, our second trip, so we stuck with ABD.  With a larger cost difference this time, we are thinking this might be the time to give Tauck a try.  I just hope on the trip I would not be constantly feeling like they weren't doing things as well as ABD.
> 
> So, final question, for those of you who have done both ABD and TB, did you feel like TB was second place compared to Disney?
> 
> Thank you so much for all your help.
> P.S.  If the OP is still hanging around, I would love to hear your feedback on the TB Italy trip.




I've done 5 ABD trips and 2 TB and the TB trips were every bit as good as ABD and in some cases better.  One of our TB trips was a riverboat cruise, so not exactly comparing apples to apples when comparing with a land trip, but as far as tours goes it is my #2 favorite (after our Lindblad trip to the Galapagos at #1).   I haven't done the trips to Italy with either ABD or TB, so can't comment on those.  I would say that the accommodations and food are generally better on the Tauck trips.  The VIP treatment is the same.  And there are as many or more pleasant surprises.  One reason ABD is more expensive is because on the land trips there are 2 guides vs 1 with TB (on the TB riverboat there was a cruise director and 4 guides).  I don't find having one guide to be an issue.  I think the major difference in the price is the Disney name.  ABD charges more because there are people willing to pay a premium because it's Disney.


----------



## carpenta

I have to agree with Bobo. We did the Italy trip with Tauck Bridges two years ago. Tauck does an outstanding job. There hotels are top notch where you stay in Westin properties and in Florence you stay in one of the top 50 hotels in the world according to Conde Nast.We stayed in a suite with two rooms and we had a king sized bed while our daughter had a pull out couch. Oh did I mention we had a two French  balconies that opened to view the Duomo? What a view to wake up to while in Florence. The food is better and when you eat in resturants you get to order off the menu. One guide stays the whole trip and in each city the group is met by two local guides that are experts on what you are touring at the time. You get the VIP treatment as ABD offers at all the tours . Bags are always taken care of and extras  are offered such as snacks and special requests. I think TB is better overall than ABD and since our daughter is getting older we are planning more trips with TB in the future. Next year we are doing another TB river cruise on the Rhine because we had such a great time on a TB Danube trip. When you travel a second time and there after TB pays for a pre or post night stay in the hotel in the city your trip begins or ends respectively.Any specific questions I will be happy to answer.


----------



## Calfan

We are planning to do Ireland with Tauck Bridges in 2017.  As with our decision to go with Thomson Family Adventures to China next summer, we just like the itinerary better than the ABD itinerary.  So great to read this positive feedback about how TB compares to ABD as we begin to branch out.  I'm sure we have more ABDs in our future, but as long as we find that our experiences with the other tour operators are positive and compare favorably to ABD, we will probably put the most emphasis on which itinerary we like versus our loyalty to a particular operator for future trips.


----------



## Rapunzellover

I think itinerary is key. I chose ABD over Tauck (non-Bridges variety) cause I just like the itinerary better.  Same with London/Paris.


----------



## smile750

I just wanted to add that after doing extensive research online that included "upscale" tours, my family decided to go with a Queenslander tour (Italy's great cities).  No more than 16 people on the tour, we ate in restaurants where we could choose whatever we wanted off of the menu.  We had a dedicated tour director and local tour guides with all front of the line passes, gratuity included for local guides, etc..  Hotels were top notch and located right in the heart of each city.  We started in Venice, moved on to Florence where we were steps from the Duomo, stayed in Cortina (Tuscany) steps away from where they filmed "Under the Tuscan Sun" with Diane Lane.  Toured a private winery where we had a private lunch and wine tasting - all the bells and whistles on a wonderfully intimate trip.  In Rome, we were directly across from the Pantheon within the square.  I wouldn't hesitate to ever book with them again - it was wonderful!  Age of participants was also great for us - most on our particular trip (only 8 of us!) were about the same age as us (40's and 50's).

The go all over the world - those that enjoy Tauck and ABD should definitely consider them too - my 2 cents


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Thanks to all for posting such great information. I'll definitely be keeping this all in mind as we look to future travel plans.


----------



## Cousin Orville

carpenta said:


> ...since our daughter is getting older we are planning more trips with TB in the future.



Is this because you find Tauck Bridges attracts families with older children/teens rather than younger children or just that you'll be doing more foreign traveling?  Yesterday, in Copenhagen I saw a Tauck tour (presumably non Bridges) and everyone on the tour seemed to be in their late 60's and 70's.  At my age, I would not be comfortable on an adults only tour, but how is their Bridges tour?  I'm sure everyone is much younger, but do they have pre-teens or are most kids older than that?


----------



## Bobo912

Cousin Orville said:


> Is this because you find Tauck Bridges attracts families with older children/teens rather than younger children or just that you'll be doing more foreign traveling?  Yesterday, in Copenhagen I saw a Tauck tour (presumably non Bridges) and everyone on the tour seemed to be in their late 60's and 70's.  At my age, I would not be comfortable on an adults only tour, but how is their Bridges tour?  I'm sure everyone is much younger, but do they have pre-teens or are most kids older than that?



Carpenta's experience might be different, but on our TB trips, there is a fairly equal mix of young kids and teenagers.  I've only been on 2 TB trips, but from my own experience and the kid counts that are often on the Tauck forum, there are typically a large number of kids on each trip.  A couple of our ABDs only had a few kids.  In Alaska we had only 4 children out of 30 guests, so it was almost like an adults only trip and on our Ireland ABD there were quite a few teenagers, but only 3 younger kids.  I think there is consistently a high percentage of kids on TB trips, since adults who want to travel with Tauck have the Culturious and World Discovery itineraries as options.


----------



## carpenta

Cousin Orville said:


> Is this because you find Tauck Bridges attracts families with older children/teens rather than younger children or just that you'll be doing more foreign traveling?  Yesterday, in Copenhagen I saw a Tauck tour (presumably non Bridges) and everyone on the tour seemed to be in their late 60's and 70's.  At my age, I would not be comfortable on an adults only tour, but how is their Bridges tour?  I'm sure everyone is much younger, but do they have pre-teens or are most kids older than that?



On our TB trips we found that most of the kids were teenagers. The split was about 50/50, kids to adults.There were some extended families where the Grandparents were taking their grandchildren. ( I wish I had "those" grandparents) The focus for the kids was on the history rather than pins and movies. There was a "kids' night" where the parents got to dine together while the guide had the kids much like ABD. I am in my mid 50's and most parents were in that spectrum (45-55). There was only a couple pre-teens on our trips. I think that since our daughter has grown out of the princess age we choose TB for it seems to be a better fit for our daughter's interests. TB's has a whole different feel I suspect than the usual Tauck tours for much like ABD it is family centric. Prices also help where the base price is less while all tips are included for the guides. That frees up more cash to spend on more travel.


----------



## kmc33

This feedback has been so very helpful!!  Thank you very much!  I really appreciate all of you taking the time to share your experiences and thoughts.  I am convinced for many reasons this TB Italy trip is the right one for us (DH was sold as soon as I showed home the price difference).  I like the itinerary slightly better, I like the location of the Venice hotel a lot better, and now that our son is getting older, it sounds like this may be a better fit.

We will not be going until June 2016, but I will share our experience for others who may be interested.


----------



## walnut611

Quick question on what age Tauck considers as a child, AFAIK Disney considers all 12+ to be adults and have to pay that price.  TIA!


----------



## Bobo912

walnut611 said:


> Quick question on what age Tauck considers as a child, AFAIK Disney considers all 12+ to be adults and have to pay that price.  TIA!


 
Tauck is the same.  There is a discount for anyone under 12.


----------



## emilymad

Thanks for all the great information!  On the TB trips are there ever just couples?  We are in our mid 30s with no kids and feel that the regular Tauck trips would skew a little old for us.


----------



## Bobo912

emilymad said:


> Thanks for all the great information!  On the TB trips are there ever just couples?  We are in our mid 30s with no kids and feel that the regular Tauck trips would skew a little old for us.



It's mostly families with kids, but on our first trip there was a couple (40ish I think) who wanted to do the World Discovery trip but the dates didn't work for them, so they did the TB trip instead.  They said they really enjoyed the TB trip and the other families and were glad it worked out that they couldn't take the WD trip.  They had done Tauck WD trips before and were the youngest in the group. On our riverboat cruise, I believe there were also couples, but it's hard to tell because it's a bigger group and everybody is all mixed up together, so there could have been couples that were part of a big extended family.  I know there was a group of 3 adult women (mother, daughter and daughter-in-law) who were traveling together with no children.   If you don't mind other people's kids, you would probably enjoy it.  Tauck also has Culturious itineraries that are aimed at a younger clientele, but those are fairly new and there aren't as many destinations yet.

Maybe DisFan10 will chime in.  He's taken several TB trips without kids.


----------



## carpenta

emilymad said:


> Thanks for all the great information!  On the TB trips are there ever just couples?  We are in our mid 30s with no kids and feel that the regular Tauck trips would skew a little old for us.


 on our Italy tour there was a couple from Ca. that was in their 30's and did the trip because it fell right in their schedule and like you stated the other trips looked "too old'. They fit right into the group. After the second day the kids all bond and occupy the back of the bus. (Giving the adults THEIR vacation LOL)I think you will find you will be "adopted" by the group of adults.


----------



## Rapunzellover

What about solos? I was discouraged by Tauck from doing Ireland WD because I was too young (35). I assume TB wouldn't encourage solos?


----------



## emilymad

Thanks for your opinions!  We would definitely prefer to be with families and kids than be the youngest people by almost double.


----------



## Golden Rose

We're new to the world of family luxury touring (new enough that we haven't done our first yet - we have ABD booked for Costa Rica for 2016,) and I love these discussions of different tour groups.  We have been looking at ABD, Tauck Bridges, and Abercrombie and Kent Family.  Our kids are 5.5 years apart; we've been traveling with a child under 6 for the last decade, and we'll be doing so another year and a half.  We do a fair number of cruises and we take the kids on trips without a tour group pretty often (between me and my mom, we can manage basic Spanish, Italian, French, and German), but we have a very, very social 4 year old who is now about old enough that we're willing to consider group tours for her sake.  Please report back on the Tauck Bridges!  It's great to have comparisons of the different groups.


----------



## sayhello

Golden Rose said:


> We're new to the world of family luxury touring (new enough that we haven't done our first yet - we have ABD booked for Costa Rica for 2016,) and I love these discussions of different tour groups.  We have been looking at ABD, Tauck Bridges, and Abercrombie and Kent Family.  Our kids are 5.5 years apart; we've been traveling with a child under 6 for the last decade, and we'll be doing so another year and a half.  We do a fair number of cruises and we take the kids on trips without a tour group pretty often (between me and my mom, we can manage basic Spanish, Italian, French, and German), but we have a very, very social 4 year old who is now about old enough that we're willing to consider group tours for her sake.  Please report back on the Tauck Bridges!  It's great to have comparisons of the different groups.


Hi!  Just wanted to note that the minimum age for some ABDs is 6 or even 7 years old.  Make sure you check the minimum age when you're considering an ABD.

Sayhello


----------



## Golden Rose

sayhello said:


> Hi!  Just wanted to note that the minimum age for some ABDs is 6 or even 7 years old.  Make sure you check the minimum age when you're considering an ABD.
> 
> Sayhello



Yeah, we know, it is why we're just starting to look at ABD now.  She'll be 5 by the time we do the Costa Rica trip we have booked.  She'll be 6 by the time we're first considering Australia and South Africa.   The age limit is why we're doing Galapagos as a Celebrity Cruise instead of with ABD; we'd have booked that as our first ABD otherwise.  

We travel a lot as a family; both my kids have been traveling since they were less than a year old.  The question for us is not if we'll travel, it's how we'll travel.  Right now we're at a stage where my mom and step-father are still healthy enough to travel with us, and my kids are about old enough to go wherever we want to go.  We love taking multigenerational trips together, and we don't know how long we'll have the window of good health for all, so we're pushing it a bit for our daughter.  We've done a lot of cruises, because they are easy with kids, but my step-father gets seasick pretty easily, and has said he really doesn't want to do any more cruises with us.  (We've still got 3 cruises booked for the next year and a bit, but he's not coming on any of them except maybe Galapagos.)

Our son is a fantastic traveler - we could literally take him anywhere in the world, and he'd be an easy companion.  He's done well on flights (to as far as Europe and Hawaii) and roadtips to WDW.  The biggest problem we run into is that he can be a picky eater.  Our daughter is... less of a fantastic traveler.  On the one hand, she'll try any food and she can sleep anywhere easily.  She's adventurous and outgoing.  On the other hand, she's an active 4 year old.  She does well on road trips, but she was not great on our last long flight.  We've got a series of trips booked that will require 3 to 5 hour flights in the next year, so we'll have another chance to see how she does before we commit to a really long flight.  We would like to book something big for December 2016, but I'm hoping to wait until we see how she does on the upcoming flights... and I'm hoping to see how we like our first ABD.


----------



## kaseyC

We just finished our week long TB Ireland Forever tour.  I don't know if anyone remembers but I posted on this board when making the decision between TB and ABD for Ireland.  We had never done a organized tour before and I wanted something that was "just add water".  We had an absolute blast on our tour with TB and enjoyed leaving all of the planning to someone else.  We had a little under 40 people on our tour, 1 large multigenerational family group 6 adults and 4 kids, a number grandparents traveling with grandkids and parents traveling with their kids.  Kid's ages ranged from 9-20.  The majority falling in the 12-16 age groups.  Loved the accommodations, Conrad in Dublin, Castlemartyr near Cork and Dromoland Castle near Shannon.

Our Tauck Director Brenna was wonderful and the local  guides were outstanding as well.   The kids all bonded very well and quickly.  They were a great group of kids.  We had a large number of well organized activities, my favorites:  Dublin Scavenger hunt, cooking our Dinner at the Ballymaloe Cookery school, biking through Killarney NP, our "field day" where we learned the Irish game of hurling and the kids got to play in a match with a local youth team and dinner and Irish music at a sheep farm.  Our favorite sights: the Book of Kells, Blarney castle, Killarney NP and  Cliffs of Moher.  We had fabulous weather the whole trip.

One thing I was very happy with was that we only had a couple meals that were pre-set.  For many of our meals we could just order what we wanted off the menu as well as choose the time we wanted to dine.  Brenna would reserve the time for us.

Our amount of time on the motor coach was limited since TB reserves first class seats on the train to get us from Dublin to Cork.  Very nice.  Also lots of little gifts and surprises through out the week.

If anyone has any questions please don't hesitate to ask.


----------



## Calfan

kaseyC said:


> We just finished our week long TB Ireland Forever tour.  I don't know if anyone remembers but I posted on this board when making the decision between TB and ABD for Ireland.  We had never done a organized tour before and I wanted something that was "just add water".  We had an absolute blast on our tour with TB and enjoyed leaving all of the planning to someone else.  We had a little under 40 people on our tour, 1 large multigenerational family group 6 adults and 4 kids, a number grandparents traveling with grandkids and parents traveling with their kids.  Kid's ages ranged from 9-20.  The majority falling in the 12-16 age groups.  Loved the accommodations, Conrad in Dublin, Castlemartyr near Cork and Dromoland Castle near Shannon.
> 
> Our Tauck Director Brenna was wonderful and the local  guides were outstanding as well.   The kids all bonded very well and quickly.  They were a great group of kids.  We had a large number of well organized activities, my favorites:  Dublin Scavenger hunt, cooking our Dinner at the Ballymaloe Cookery school, biking through Killarney NP, our "field day" where we learned the Irish game of hurling and the kids got to play in a match with a local youth team and dinner and Irish music at a sheep farm.  Our favorite sights: the Book of Kells, Blarney castle, Killarney NP and  Cliffs of Moher.  We had fabulous weather the whole trip.
> 
> One thing I was very happy with was that we only had a couple meals that were pre-set.  For many of our meals we could just order what we wanted off the menu as well as choose the time we wanted to dine.  Brenna would reserve the time for us.
> 
> Our amount of time on the motor coach was limited since TB reserves first class seats on the train to get us from Dublin to Cork.  Very nice.  Also lots of little gifts and surprises through out the week.
> 
> If anyone has any questions please don't hesitate to ask.



So glad you enjoyed your trip, and it's great to hear your very positive feedback about Tauck Bridges.  We are planning to do this trip with TB in 2017.  Really looking forward to it.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

kaseyC said:


> We just finished our week long TB Ireland Forever tour.  I don't know if anyone remembers but I posted on this board when making the decision between TB and ABD for Ireland.  We had never done a organized tour before and I wanted something that was "just add water".  We had an absolute blast on our tour with TB and enjoyed leaving all of the planning to someone else.  We had a little under 40 people on our tour, 1 large multigenerational family group 6 adults and 4 kids, a number grandparents traveling with grandkids and parents traveling with their kids.  Kid's ages ranged from 9-20.  The majority falling in the 12-16 age groups.  Loved the accommodations, Conrad in Dublin, Castlemartyr near Cork and Dromoland Castle near Shannon.
> 
> Our Tauck Director Brenna was wonderful and the local  guides were outstanding as well.   The kids all bonded very well and quickly.  They were a great group of kids.  We had a large number of well organized activities, my favorites:  Dublin Scavenger hunt, cooking our Dinner at the Ballymaloe Cookery school, biking through Killarney NP, our "field day" where we learned the Irish game of hurling and the kids got to play in a match with a local youth team and dinner and Irish music at a sheep farm.  Our favorite sights: the Book of Kells, Blarney castle, Killarney NP and  Cliffs of Moher.  We had fabulous weather the whole trip.
> 
> One thing I was very happy with was that we only had a couple meals that were pre-set.  For many of our meals we could just order what we wanted off the menu as well as choose the time we wanted to dine.  Brenna would reserve the time for us.
> 
> Our amount of time on the motor coach was limited since TB reserves first class seats on the train to get us from Dublin to Cork.  Very nice.  Also lots of little gifts and surprises through out the week.
> 
> If anyone has any questions please don't hesitate to ask.



Sounds like a great trip! We did ABD Ireland way back in 2007 (I think)--it was our first ABD--and loved it. But I have to say the day on the coach was really long. I would have much preferred first class train tickets. That might be reason alone to do Tauck. We did ABD before they switched the Rock of Cashel to Blarney Castle--not sure what other changes they have made to the itinerary. I'd have to go back and look.


----------



## Rapunzellover

Blarney Castle did not replace the Rock of Cashel. They are both on my ABD itinerary for July.


----------



## kmc33

We did the Ireland ABD in 2013, our first ABD and we loved it.  We went to Rock of Cashel and Blarney Castle.  I remember looking at both ABD and TB at the time; there was very little difference in the price and we decided to go with ABD... maybe in part because I knew so much more about ABD from reading these forums. 

We really enjoyed Rock of Cashel, Killarney Park Hotel, and three nights at Dromoland Castle on the ABD, but on the other hand, I would love to go to Kinsale and the train ride sounds better than the coach on TB.  I guess with all the itineraries there are differences between Tauck and ABD, but everything is good, just some differences because they have to make choices since you just can't fit everything into one week!

kaseyC, thank you for your feedback on the TB Ireland trip.  That sounds like a wonderful trip too and since we are going to book the TB Italia Bella for 2016, it is great to read about your great experience in Ireland.


----------



## kaseyC

kmc33 said:


> We did the Ireland ABD in 2013, our first ABD and we loved it.  We went to Rock of Cashel and Blarney Castle.  I remember looking at both ABD and TB at the time; there was very little difference in the price and we decided to go with ABD... maybe in part because I knew so much more about ABD from reading these forums.
> 
> We really enjoyed Rock of Cashel, Killarney Park Hotel, and three nights at Dromoland Castle on the ABD, but on the other hand, I would love to go to Kinsale and the train ride sounds better than the coach on TB.  I guess with all the itineraries there are differences between Tauck and ABD, but everything is good, just some differences because they have to make choices since you just can't fit everything into one week!
> 
> kaseyC, thank you for your feedback on the TB Ireland trip.  That sounds like a wonderful trip too and since we are going to book the TB Italia Bella for 2016, it is great to read about your great experience in Ireland.



I was undecided for quite awhile between TB and ABD.  They were both very similar in terms of itinerary and price. what swayed me was there seemed to be less free time on TB (a plus for me), activities that appealed more to my girls... The pottery and Celtic jewelry making in Kinsale (so fun and Kinsale is gorgeous) and the Ballymaloe cooking school (which was fantastic) and the gratuities being included. 

We also lucked out with a week of absolutely perfect weather.  No rain and few clouds. 

I have to add that me and my DDs are total fans of organized tours now.  I loved just going with the flow and planning little things for our free time.  Looking forward to trying ABD as well.  I'll be back asking questions about itineraries once we get home from London next week.


----------



## angelinaxox

It is great reading the comparisons here between ABD and TB and to hear nice things about TB. My husband and I are traveling with my brother's family on the Red Rocks and Painted Canyons tour. My brother had a hard time deciding between TB and ABD but I was hoping he chose the TB because I thought the itinerary was a little better, including an extra day at the beginning and the price was definitely better. I am really looking forward to it. The forums at Tauck aren't as active as here, but I have been fortunate to have several people answer all my questions pretty thoroughly.


----------



## RSM

This past summer we did the “Spanish Salsa” family tour with Trafalgar.  Although the itinerary was similar to the Spain ABD there were some differences that we preferred with the Trafalgar itinerary.   In terms of addressing the market, Trafalgar and ABD are at completely different price points.  When we compared what we actually spent with Trafalgar to what we estimate we would have spent with ABD’s Spain tour, we saved about 50%. 

First, I’ll say that our overall experience on Trafalgar’s Spanish Salsa tour was every bit as good as any of the ABD’s that we have done.  But there are differences and depending on how important these are to you will determine your satisfaction.  So, what are the differences?

1.)  Group size and Children:  There were 48 on our tour.  There were 24 adults and 24 children ranging in age from 7 to 20.  Much like an ABD, within a couple of days almost all the kids had bonded and hung out together.  It was actually great. We would see the older kids (18-20 y/o) hanging out with the younger kids.  One night all the kids started a dance party in the hotel lounge (our guide spoke with the hotel manager and got an open ballroom for us).  We hadn’t experienced all the kids bonding like this on an ABD (typically the younger kids hang out, the older kids hang out, but there is not a lot between the different age groups). 

2.)  Group Mix:  The make up of the group also differed from a typical ABD.  Of the 48 in our group, probably 40%  were from the US and 60% from other countries (Australia, New Zealand, India, South Africa).  I should say that 48 is a large group, but it never seemed like we were delayed or it never felt that large.  For most of the tours, we split into 2 separate groups and we had whisperers for all guided excursions.

3.)  Hotels:  Probably the biggest difference is the hotels.  In general, ABD stays at 4 and 5 star hotels very centrally located.  On this trip we stayed in 3 and 4 star boutique hotels generally located a bit outside the city center or main tourist area.  That being said, our longest taxi ride was about 10 minutes to the main area (10-12 euro).  As we’ve travelled over the years, the size, amenities, and location of the hotels we stay at has become less important.  Cleanliness remains important and we had no issues with our hotels.

4.)  Excursions:  When we compared the excursions between Trafalgar and ABD for those cities in common, they were nearly identical.  The difference is that all excursions are included in the ABD, but some of the excursions on the Trafalgar tour were options which you had to pay for.  On one hand this provides flexibility and more on-your-own time, on the other hand, some may not appreciate having to pay for some excursions as a part of a package tour.  That being said, we did 6 of 8 optional excursions and the cost was still significantly less.

5.)  Meals:  Breakfast was typically buffet style in the hotel very similar to ABD.  We had 3 dinners (really good) and lunch was on our own each day.  So, in general there were probably fewer included meals than on an ABD.

6.)  Guide/Tour Director:  We had one tour director for the 48 of us.  Trafalgar tended to rely more on local guides than ABD.  Obviously, not the same level of personal interaction with the tour director as she was pretty busy.  But I will say, whenever someone needed something she seemed to get it done.  For example, one family was staying in Barcelona after the tour and wanted tickets to La Pedrera (a Gaudi house).  The guide arranged this and other activities for then and a number of other families.

7.)  The Coach:  This was the one thing that was the most irksome to us.  We had assigned seats on the coach and rotated each day.  I think they do this so that the same people aren’t always at the front/back of the coach.  This may be needed for some of the tours skewed towards an older average age, but from our ABD experience the kids like to sit at the back of the coach.  Eventually, we all just started to sit where we wanted and probably drove our tour director crazy.

Overall, if you are looking for a lower cost guided tour, I would highly recommend a Trafalgar family tour.  There are differences, but for us the differences were not that big a deal.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Thanks so much for posting about your experience on Trafalgar--I love having other companies to add to the mix. Sounds like you had a great time, and saving 50% is pretty impressive. The size of ABD groups has been getting progressively bigger--our add on had 49 people--so that sounds like a wash to me.


----------



## carpenta

On some Tauck trips they do not charge a single supplement charge.......


----------



## sayhello

What's worst, though, is the ABD River Cruise.  The single supplement for the ABD Danube river cruise is 100% of the per person cost.  This is the same as DCL (but NOT the same as the DCL ABD add-ons!) The only reason I even considered doing the river cruise is that for a limited time after the announcement, they offered the Category C cabins with "only" a 50% single supplement, which I snagged.  I'm pretty sure that unless they continue to offer that, if I want to do any river cruising after this one, it's going to be with Uniworld, who offer several cruises with no single supplement.

Sayhello


----------



## carpenta

sayhello said:


> What's worst, though, is the ABD River Cruise.  The single supplement for the ABD Danube river cruise is 100% of the per person cost.  This is the same as DCL (but NOT the same as the DCL ABD add-ons!) The only reason I even considered doing the river cruise is that for a limited time after the announcement, they offered the Category C cabins with "only" a 50% single supplement, which I snagged.  I'm pretty sure that unless they continue to offer that, if I want to do any river cruising after this one, it's going to be with Uniworld, who offer several cruises with no single supplement.
> 
> Sayhello



   I have heard good things about Uniworld. We have looked at Uniworld just for the reason that we are "three" and we would get a double room and a single. At a triple price. No single supplement. Tauck we have sailed with before and they offer triples. Even as I have posted before ABD does not offer triples on some of their trips instead a double priced room with a single supplement for the second room. Expensive is one thing....ridiculous pricing is another.


----------



## carpenta

Rapunzellover said:


> I want Portugal...haven't really found the right itinerary elsewhere.


 I agree with that. I have been once and found Portugal much like Croatia and Serbia, undiscovered by the masses with a great historical and welcoming populous.


----------



## techtony

I have been looking (dreaming really) at some of the ABD trips and wondered - are there other trips out there that are cheaper through other reputable companies?

I understand that Disney is the best (trust me if we could afford it, we would book one today), but the budget just does not support it. I am sure that other companies do these type of guided tours.

Anybody done these or know of any tour companies (for travel here in the US or Canada)?


----------



## carpenta

Check out National Geographic tours. They offer both family and adult trips. They offer similar expeditions and quality IMO.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

I just got an email from National Georgraphic about their tours. I've requested brochures. There are certain places that are on my mom's "bucket list" of places she wants to see, not all of which are offered by ABD or are convenient for us as we like to do the Adult Only trips. She's already determined that we are doing one in 2017 and 2018. We just don't know which of her bucket list locations we are going to do


----------



## aggiedog

I've looked at what seems like every group tour company on the market.  You get what you pay for.  Significantly cheaper means carrying your own luggage, less transfer help, possibly sharing a bathroom down the hall (Rick Steve's tours), less guides, etc, etc.  Dh is a total snob and will not consider anything that doesn't "do it all" for us.  (Or he lets me plan the whole trip, but only if I've got every contingency planned for, which can get overwhelming.) If you can live without some of the frills and extras, there are many options.  There is a thread at the top asking if ABD is "worth it." There are several other companies mentioned there you can look at.


----------



## Bobo912

I found National Georgraphic to be superior to ABD, but they are also generally more expensive.


----------



## Woodview

Here is a company  ..... based in Europe .......  Trailfinders.com

 They do World travel.    And Escorted  Coach tours  to Canada .   &  Rail  & Cruise  ..... look them up


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

If you want to see some of Western Canada then I would suggest Rocky Mountaineer. http://www.rockymountaineer.com/en_...arch?gclid=CM-Njr7CosoCFZEXHwodYEoMyA&#search


----------



## Bobo912

Three years ago I took the itinerary from the ABD Montana/Alberta trip and the Tauck Bridges Canadian Rockies trip and combined them and did the trip on my own.  Started in Montana (which isn't included in the Tauck trip), then to Banff (which is in both ABD and Tauck) and then to Jasper (which isn't included in the ABD) and then Lake Louise (which is included in both).  Did all of their activites plus some more of our own choosing.  We stayed in the park at GNP and at the Fairmont hotels in Banff, Jasper and Lake Louise and had rooms with gorgeous views.  And even with the extended itinerary and luxury hotels, it was about half the cost of the ABD trip.  Even with no guides, my son and I both agree this was one of the best vacations we've had - probably only topped by the Nat Geo trip to the Galapagos.  Of course, somebody has to drive, (for us, that would be me), and the distances are long, but there are lots of opportunities for stops along the way and there is almost no traffic.  Just watch out for the occasional moose or bear.


----------



## Woodview

Have a go at a  DIY   Trip


  My plan for August / September   ..  Flights booked .

 Fly from Cork to London  to  Vancouver 

 Pickup  Hired car       .  Drive to Whistler .......To Kamloops  .....to Osoyoos         .... to  Newport  in Washington State  ( Staying with Relations )

 Back    Via Spokane    ..... Grand Coulee Dam.......... Leavenworth    & Back into Canada  & Vancouver  (  Visit Relations )

 Then Cross over to Vancouver Island   &  on to  Victoria   ( More Relations ).

 Then Fly back from Vancouver  to Ireland.

 It can be done  ( we did it 4 years ago )      needs planning  & looking up  Hotels & Motels .  ... 21 days ... Wife reading maps  & 1 driver ( me )


----------



## SanFranciscan

I am no travel agent, but I am seeking to think of companies with organized tours that might fit your needs.  I remember that I was getting messages about travel sponsored by the Smithsonian Institute while I was subscribing to Smithsonian magazine.  I didn't pay attention at the time because I was always working, but I am thinking that they might be relatively economical.  The Smithsonian gets federal funding; right?  I am wondering if the fact that they are at least semi-governmental would mean that their tours are subsidized under the Department of Education.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

We are seriously considering a private expedition to South Africa with National Geographic. The trip is slightly more than the ABD Safari but the itinerary and the group size (private in Cape Town and Small Group of no more than 6 on the reserves) is ideal for us. National Geographic has tours at all levels. Their "Expedition" trips are equivalent to ABD and have very similar itineraries, Adventures are more active trips with less pampering and Journeys have minimal pampering and much more voluntouring involved.


----------



## TXTransplant

So, I just got a promotional email from Tauck.  They are offering a deal right now on all of their Europe trips between March 1 and August 31 (for new bookings made between Jan 7 and Feb 29).  It's called the Take off with Tauck package, and it includes round trip economy air fare from any US or Canadian "gateway" cities to Europe for...wait for it...an additional $1090 per person!  Premium economy is $1690 per person.  And full payment is not required at the time of booking!  And airfare is fully refundable up to 60 days before departure!

Is this too good to be true?  I'm looking at spending $2k per person to get us from Houston to Rome in June.  I would have to crunch the numbers exactly, but I think I could save money even if I cancelled my ABD and forfeited my $600 deposit!  Although, I did research both the Tauck and ABD itineraries for our trip, and I much preferred the one of ABD.

Anyone else get this email?


----------



## carpenta

I have traveled with Tauck before and it's true. Most often when you book your second + trip they offer a free hotel room pre or post trip. You can book airfare through them and it is usually a set price. I have done that Italy (Rome, Florence, Venice) Bridges with Tauck so if you have any questions feel free to ask.


----------



## TXTransplant

carpenta said:


> I have traveled with Tauck before and it's true. Most often when you book your second + trip they offer a free hotel room pre or post trip. You can book airfare through them and it is usually a set price. I have done that Italy (Rome, Florence, Venice) Bridges with Tauck so if you have any questions feel free to ask.



So, do they offer this promotion regularly/all the time?  I just can't get over the fact that they can book airfare at 1/2 the cost of what I can get on my own! 

ABD should take note...as much as I loved our ABD, an $1100 plane ticket to Europe is probably enough to convert me!


----------



## carpenta

They offer airfare at a fixed price but these prices look less expensive than they often quote. So yes it does sound like a big savings. Tauck does stay in the Westin properties in Italy and in Florence the hotel we stayed was voted one of the top 50 hotels by Conde Nast.


----------



## TXTransplant

My initial estimate had me saving only about $600 by switching.  BUT, I just checked the current airfare, and for some reason the lowest price economy fare is no longer available on ANY flights from our home airport.  So, I'm now looking at $2200 per ticket.  If airline prices don't go back down, this may turn out to be a no-brainer...

Actually...I put in the wrong dates.  Airfare is still about $2k per person.  But I am VERY  tempted to call Tauck and get a quote...


----------



## WebmasterMike

I merged some of the non-Adventures by Disney threads into a single "other options thread."  This is, after all, the Adventures by Disney forum.  Feel free to discuss all non-ABD things in this thread.  If a new thread is opened for non-ABD discussions, that thread will be moved here.  

Thanks for the help, Fellow Adventurers!!


----------



## carpenta

It is amazing how expensive airline tickets are today. With oil dropping to $32.00 a barrel you would expect the prices to follow suit. To me it is price gouging. Plus when you fly into and out of the EU there is that pesky carbon tax each ticket pays. We are looking to fly from Burlington, Vt. to Charleston, S.C. for vacation and the price is $780.00 RT. Good Luck finding a good price.


----------



## WebmasterMike

We have been find amazing fares out of Houston to all of our destinations. We looks on "off-travel days" like Tues-Thursday and Saturday. We also look for fares using our browser in "incognito" mode so that the airlines cannot track how many times we look at fares for a specific trip. I just flew RT to New Orleans and booked the trip 5 days before for $175.  Not horrible.


----------



## carpenta

I guess I have to move to Houston.


----------



## TXTransplant

I can find good rates out of Houston for domestic flights. But flying to Europe in June (which is basically the only time my son and I can travel) is super expensive. And I refuse to fly Turkish Air and have a 6-12 hour layover in Istanbul just for a $1200 ticket.


----------



## acndis

Turkish Air did not sound appealing to me when I was pricing for the River Cruise (we have since moved to the Peru trip) but there were some good prices on British Airways which now flies direct to London from Austin (I think they also fly direct from IAH) with good connection elsewhere in Europe.  They don't charge for a stopover and I was getting some pretty good prices.  I always try to book 331 days out--I know I am CRAZY but I got $1100 on ANA (great airline) roundtrip from IAH to Saigon.  Booking on the very first day can pay off.


----------



## aggiedog

I don't know what the prices are these days, but Icelander lets you stopover in Iceland on one leg but fly direct on the other.  A few days in Iceland is never a bad thing!


----------



## sayhello

aggiedog said:


> I don't know what the prices are these days, but Icelander lets you stopover in Iceland on one leg but fly direct on the other.  A few days in Iceland is never a bad thing!


I did that this year for my trip to London, and *LOVED* it!  I did a stopover in Iceland on my way back, and definitely need to plan a longer trip there!

Sayhello


----------



## WebmasterMike

carpenta said:


> I guess I have to move to Houston.



Living 10 minutes from a United Hub and 30 minutes from a Southwest hub has its advantages!


----------



## Cousin Orville

WebmasterMike said:


> Living 10 minutes from a United Hub and 30 minutes from a Southwest hub has its advantages!



Agreed although I wish United had more nonstop destinations in Europe...  Amsterdam, London, Frankfort...  Any others?

Definitely it's a blessing to have a quick, easy Southwest flight to HOU->MCO.


----------



## carpenta

Yes I am jealous.......not only do we have few flights here but the flights we have the airlines really pick your pockets.......Jet Blue flies here but as of late their fares have been more expensive than the big airlines.


----------



## TXTransplant

Cousin Orville said:


> Agreed although I wish United had more nonstop destinations in Europe...  Amsterdam, London, Frankfort...  Any others?
> 
> Definitely it's a blessing to have a quick, easy Southwest flight to HOU->MCO.



You can get to/from Munich direct on United, too. And to Paris on Air France, but I think those are the only other direct options from IAH besides what you listed. 

As much as I love Southwest, the last time we flew to MCO, we took United out of Bush (which is closer to our house). United was about the same price and had more direct flights at much better times than SWA did.


----------



## Cousin Orville

TXTransplant said:


> You can get to/from Munich direct on United, too. And to Paris on Air France, but I think those are the only other direct options from IAH besides what you listed.
> 
> As much as I love Southwest, the last time we flew to MCO, we took United out of Bush (which is closer to our house). United was about the same price and had more direct flights at much better times than SWA did.



We're closer to Hobby so that's my go to airport for WDW.  However, I have to mention for anyone who uses Centurion Lounges, I'm super excited Bush is getting an American Express Centurion Lounge.  There's only a few of these around the country/world and they're extremely nice.  A massive step up from a United (or other airline) lounge.


----------



## TXTransplant

So, I ran across something strange (in a good way) this morning.  Last year when I booked tickets to Germany, I paid a few hundred $ premium to fly to Frankfurt and home from Munich, rather than round trip from Frankfurt.  It has always been my experience multi-city tickets are more expensive than round trip.

When I booked our trip for this summer, I just assumed we would fly to/from Rome.  I plan to arrive in Rome a couple of days early to enjoy the city.  Our trip actually ends in Florence, but I figured we'd take the train back to Rome to catch our flight.

Well, this morning I decided to check options departing to Rome but returning from Florence.  And MUCH to my surprise, they are about $400 cheaper per ticket ($1500-$1600 vs. almost $2000)!!!  I can't believe I have the option to pay less for convenience!

Color me shocked at how much cheaper it is to fly to a "smaller" city in Europe.  I can book a round-trip ticket to Florence for under $1200, and I could also book to Naples (which is where our tour originates) and home from Florence for about $1200.


----------



## sayhello

So I've been corresponding with a sales guy from Thomson Family Adventures [they *do* allow solo travelers, but don't actually encourage them because of the dynamics (really geared towards kids).  And they don't do "Adult Only" trips (unless it just happens that way)].  BUT he just gave me a really interesting piece of information!!



> And we’ll be going to Japan either late this year or sometime in 2017. Keep an eye on our website for that itinerary.



Now *that* would be very, VERY cool!

Sayhello


----------



## Calfan

sayhello said:


> So I've been corresponding with a sales guy from Thomson Family Adventures [they *do* allow solo travelers, but don't actually encourage them because of the dynamics (really geared towards kids).  And they don't do "Adult Only" trips (unless it just happens that way)].  BUT he just gave me a really interesting piece of information!!
> 
> 
> 
> Now *that* would be very, VERY cool!
> 
> Sayhello



Way cool!  Thanks for sharing.


----------



## EllinK

We will all be on that same trip!


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

For those of you who are looking for 'guaranteed' departures check out National Geographic. Depending on the level (Expedition/Adventure/Journey) they run slightly higher/equal to ABD for Expeditions to significantly lower for Journeys. They travel to pretty much the same locations and even offer private trips (Expeditions). We are looking at doing either the Private Expedition to South Africa or the Private Expedition to Cambodia/Vietnam in 2017. Both of these trips are very similar to ABD and while slightly more than ABD, it will just be my mom and I or small groups of 6, depending on the location. Also with the private expeditions you can book them when they convenient for you, unless it's not running during a given time (Cambodia/Vietnam doesn't go between April and September. We can book South Africa for anytime of the year that works for us and Cambodia/Vietnam we can book it for whatever time works for us between October and March.


----------



## carpenta

I was on a Nat. Geo. trip with an older couple who did the Nat. Geo. "Around the World by private jet" and they said it was fabulous. A 757 all first class seating. Now if I ever hit the lottery THAT is one of the trips I would undertake.


----------



## Calfan

I've posted about this on other threads, but CaliforniaGirl09 and I did NatGeo's England Coast to Coast trip last Sept., and it was fabulous.  Only 14 people with 3 guides.  We were totally impressed by NatGeo.  My husband and I have booked their Ireland:  Hiking the Emerald Isle trip for this coming September.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

carpenta said:


> I was on a Nat. Geo. trip with an older couple who did the Nat. Geo. "Around the World by private jet" and they said it was fabulous. A 757 all first class seating. Now if I ever hit the lottery THAT is one of the trips I would undertake.



The two private expeditions we are looking at are roughly the same price as ABD. Although the Cambodia trip is shorter than the ABD one but in my opinion it's much more intense in what you're seeing. In comparison, the ABD seems heavy on days/time and light on content. For example, Nat Geo spends 2 full days at Angkor Archaeological Park whereas ABD spends 1/2 a day. If I'm going all the way to Cambodia, I want to spend time exploring the 100,000 acres Angkor Archaeological park.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

Calfan said:


> I've posted about this on other threads, but CaliforniaGirl09 and I did NatGeo's England Coast to Coast trip last Sept., and it was fabulous.  Only 14 people with 3 guides.  We were totally impressed by NatGeo.  My husband and I have booked their Ireland:  Hiking the Emerald Isle trip for this coming September.



Out of Curiosity, what was it that made you book with Nat Geo? Was it something ABD did/didn't do? We had an incident on our So Cal ABD that left us with a really bad impression. My mom was at the point where she wanted to just skip the final dinner, that's how bad it was.


----------



## Calfan

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> Out of Curiosity, what was it that made you book with Nat Geo? Was it something ABD did/didn't do? We had an incident on our So Cal ABD that left us with a really bad impression. My mom was at the point where she wanted to just skip the final dinner, that's how bad it was.



We booked England Coast to Coast with NatGeo because we wanted to do that specific hike across Northern England, and the NatGeo trip description sounded the best to us.  But now that I have gone on one NatGeo trip (and have another booked), I have a list of at least 10-15 more that I am dying to do (more hiking trips, but also family trips and others).  The things that most impressed us about NatGeo in comparison to ABD were that NatGeo guarantees its departures (at least the Adventures trips) once a minimum of 8 people has booked.  I have become very disenchanted with ABD's lack of a firm guarantee policy.  The other thing we really liked was the group size, which was capped at 16 (and we had 14). For the family trips, the maximum size is 25.  I much prefer the smaller group experience to ABD's 44 (and we had 49 on our ABD Baltics cruise add-on, which really had a negative impact on our experience).  On our England Coast to Coast trip, I pretty much knew everyone's name and something about them by the end of our welcome dinner and briefing.  The guide ratio on NatGeo was also way better than ABD.  We had three guides for 14 people versus 2 guides for 44 (or more!).  The baggage handling was also better with NatGeo.  Instead of early morning bag pulls, we simply left our bags in our rooms when we left a hotel that we wouldn't be returning to, and they were waiting for us in our room when we arrived at the next hotel (so no waiting for bags to be delivered either).  We were very impressed with the inns and hotels we stayed at, and the food as well.  Overall, just a really great experience.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

Calfan said:


> We booked England Coast to Coast with NatGeo because we wanted to do that specific hike across Northern England, and the NatGeo trip description sounded the best to us.  But now that I have gone on one NatGeo trip (and have another booked), I have a list of at least 10-15 more that I am dying to do (more hiking trips, but also family trips and others).  The things that most impressed us about NatGeo in comparison to ABD were that NatGeo guarantees its departures (at least the Adventures trips) once a minimum of 8 people has booked.  I have become very disenchanted with ABD's lack of a firm guarantee policy.  The other thing we really liked was the group size, which was capped at 16 (and we had 14). For the family trips, the maximum size is 25.  I much prefer the smaller group experience to ABD's 44 (and we had 49 on our ABD Baltics cruise add-on, which really had a negative impact on our experience).  On our England Coast to Coast trip, I pretty much knew everyone's name and something about them by the end of our welcome dinner and briefing.  The guide ratio on NatGeo was also way better than ABD.  We had three guides for 14 people versus 2 guides for 44 (or more!).  The baggage handling was also better with NatGeo.  Instead of early morning bag pulls, we simply left our bags in our rooms when we left a hotel that we wouldn't be returning to, and they were waiting for us in our room when we arrived at the next hotel (so no waiting for bags to be delivered either).  We were very impressed with the inns and hotels we stayed at, and the food as well.  Overall, just a really great experience.



Thanks for the insight. When I mentioned trips for next year when we were talking about our Disney trips and possibly going to the beach I mentioned ABD and then said "Or National Geographic, whichever we end up booking", my mom's reaction was "I'm pretty sure it's going to be National Geographic". We are looking at 2 of their private expeditions. One is to South Africa and the other is Cambodia and Vietnam. It would just be us except for a few times when it would be small groups of 6. Definitely guaranteed departures. 

One thing we like about the South African expedition is that we get to spend more time on Reserves instead of touring wineries, as we are not wine drinkers, or drinkers of any description. This trip hits everything in Cape Town that ABD does, even the 'optional' activities that ABD lists are included in the Nat Geo trip. The one place ABD doesn't go, which is surprising, is Robben Island. You can't go to South Africa and not go to Robben Island. Nat Geo includes this in their itinerary. 

With the Cambodia trip, there is more time on the Mekong River and at Angkor Archaeological Park. What's really drawing my mom is the night on a traditional Vietnamese Junk (boat). Also, while there is a focus on the Vietnam War, it's more focused on the cultural effects on the country, not so much the American presence during the war, like with ABD. I have nothing against Americans, one of my best friends is American, but I'm more interested in the cultural aspects of Vietnam and how the war influenced them, then on the impact the war had on America or their part in it. (No offense meant!)

We also like the fact that with the private expeditions we can book them when it's convenient for us.


----------



## sayhello

So I'm a little confused about what the difference is between National Geographics and Lindblad.  Is there a difference?  Can someone please explain?

Thanks,
Sayhello


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

sayhello said:


> So I'm a little confused about what the difference is between National Geographics and Lindblad.  Is there a difference?  Can someone please explain?
> 
> Thanks,
> Sayhello



Lindblad are sort of a subset of the total Nat Geo trips. The Lindblad trips look like they are all Nat Geo trips that take place on Research Vessels (someone correct me if I'm wrong as I only took a quick look at the Lindblad site). They are in conjunction with National Geographic because of the fact that there are researchers, photographers, explorers on the Lindblad expeditions that work for National Geographic studying the areas where Lindblad is. I would liken this to the ABD/DCL joint trips in the Mediterranean. 

The Nat Geo trips themselves are broken down into Expeditions, Adventures and Journeys. Depending on the amount of "pampering" you want will determine which trip category you book. Expeditions are equivalent to ABD in that you stay at 5 Star hotels, most meals are included, etc. Adventures are more active in that they will include daily hikes etc, with probably 3-4 star hotels and about 1/2 the meals included. Journeys are more like voluntouring in that you have very little "structured" time and spend more time with the local peoples, accommodations can be minimal and the majority of the meals are not included.


----------



## DCPhotoGal

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> Would love to see New Zealand, along with Japan and India.



If the ABD doesn't pan out and you'd still like to do India, I would suggest one of the luxury trains.  We have done both the Palace on Wheels and the Golden Chariot.  It's a great (and safe) way to travel in India, and all of the meals and tours are included with the ride.  The Palace on Wheels is a great first tour of India, with the palaces of Jaipur, elephant rides, Indian dance performances, Taj Mahal, etc.  For the Golden Chariot, we arranged for a stop in Goa for a few days at a beach resort, and then caught the week's train for the rest of the tour.  We took our kids (age 3 and 5) on the Palace on Wheels, and they did great.


----------



## tracyz

DCPhotoGal said:


> If the ABD doesn't pan out and you'd still like to do India, I would suggest one of the luxury trains. We have done both the Palace on Wheels and the Golden Chariot. It's a great (and safe) way to travel in India, and all of the meals and tours are included with the ride. The Palace on Wheels is a great first tour of India, with the palaces of Jaipur, elephant rides, Indian dance performances, Taj Mahal, etc. For the Golden Chariot, we arranged for a stop in Goa for a few days at a beach resort, and then caught the week's train for the rest of the tour. We took our kids (age 3 and 5) on the Palace on Wheels, and they did great.


 
Thanks for this tip!  How funny, DH were just talking last night about how the Taj Mahal is at the top of my list, but there doesn't seem to be a great option we know about for going to India, as we don't even really know what else we'd want to do there.  And then today I see this!  Wow - the timing!   The Palace on Wheels is now high on my bucket list!



carpenta said:


> Yes I am jealous.......not only do we have few flights here but the flights we have the airlines really pick your pockets.......Jet Blue flies here but as of late their fares have been more expensive than the big airlines.


Carpenta, I always check flights out of Montreal these days.  We've flown out of there several times now and saved hundreds of dollars compared with flying out of Burlington.


----------



## carpenta

Thank you Tracyz for the tip. I have checked but when I ran the numbers with the time and expense involved with parking etc. plus I had a bad experience with Air Canada I tend to shy away from that choice. But now with the exchange rate being in favor of the dollar I guess I should try again.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

carpenta said:


> Thank you Tracyz for the tip. I have checked but when I ran the numbers with the time and expense involved with parking etc. plus I had a bad experience with Air Canada I tend to shy away from that choice. But now with the exchange rate being in favor of the dollar I guess I should try again.



If you are going to book with Air Canada just keep an eye out and make sure you're not flying on Air Canada Rouge. Rouge now handles a LOT of Air Canada's European flights, any they consider a "leisure" destination. They now fly non-stop to Prague from Toronto, which would be great for me except that they have horrible service and forget having any room on the plane to move. When I compared the Air Canada Rouge plane flying to Prague with the plane that Austrian is flying to Vienna, both of which are the identical plane model, the Air Canada Rouge plane has 50+ MORE seats than the Austrian flight. 

If you want to fly out of a major Canadian city to the UK, i.e. England, Scotland etc, check out WestJet. They are starting service to Gatwick in the spring.


----------



## tracyz

Thanks for this, too!  I am flying to Vienna this weekend, booked through Air Canada and flying Montreal to Toronto, then to Vienna on Austrian.  Glad to hear I got the better option!  I flew on Austrian a couple months ago and was very pleased with them.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

tracyz said:


> Thanks for this, too!  I am flying to Vienna this weekend, booked through Air Canada and flying Montreal to Toronto, then to Vienna on Austrian.  Glad to hear I got the better option!  I flew on Austrian a couple months ago and was very pleased with them.



"Parent" Air Canada is code shared with Austrian. It's for flights like Toronto to Prague that they are putting Rouge. But they've also put a lot of their Italian locations on Rouge. After a few bad experiences on Rouge, we will only fly them if we have no other option open to us. When your Brand becomes tied to negative experiences and people use it in a derogatory manner, it's not good. When Rouge started taking over flights for Air Canada, people were not given the opportunity to rebook their flights or anything. People started saying they got "Rouged". My mom is 5'4" and she didn't have enough room at her seat to bend over and get anything out from under the seat in front of her. We flew with them on our trip to WDW over New Year's a few years ago when they first started flying to Orlando because they had the flight times we wanted. We got to the airport 3 hours ahead of time to see that the WestJet flight was delayed leaving Toronto but the Rouge flight was "on time". The flight hadn't even left Toronto yet and they kept insisting it was on route and going to leave Orlando on time. I checked on the Air Canada website and it was still sitting at Pearson thanks to weather. Also, the flight crew didn't know that a 10 year old couldn't sit in the exit row.

I have the joy of trying to figure out the best flights to get from Toronto to Prague and from Vienna to Toronto without paying an arm and a leg.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

Out of curiosity, what was it that made you (anyone on this thread) decide to start looking at other tour companies? Was it just the lack of trip guarantees or was it something specific that happened?

I'll start. On our very first trip last year, which was the Southern California Disneyland trip, we had a great time right up until the very last evening, when ABD screwed up. Throughout the week we had taken part in all the optional activities until the last full trip day at California Adventure. We opted to skip seeing Aladdin (we'd seen the full sized Broadway show a few months earlier) and we really didn't want to see the Frozen sing-a-long after having WDW be nothing but Frozen this and Frozen that. Plus California Adventure had the one attraction I was dying to ride so we opted to skip the optional activities and hit some of the attractions. As the group broke up for lunch/free/optional time, the guides asked us what we were planning to do since we were skipping the optional activities. I told them we were hitting the rides, especially the giant roller coaster behind us at the time (California Screamin'). They seemed surprised but that didn't bother us. I was dying to ride it and I was going to do just that. Our Disney guide had to talk to our DL Guest Relations liaison so we asked our other guide what time and where were we supposed to meet for dinner that night. He told us to meet everyone at the large flower vase at Carthay Circle Restaurant at 5pm. I thought this was a bit odd because the only large vase I remembered seeing at Carthay Circle was up in the centre of the restaurant so I confirmed that I heard him correctly and he again said the vase at Carthay Circle at 5pm. With the meeting time confirmed my mom and I headed off on our own for a great afternoon of hitting the major attractions at California Adventure. As 5pm approaches we head over to Carthay Circle to meet up with everyone only no one is there and no one is showing up. After about 10 minutes of waiting without anyone from our group nor our guides showing up we start to wonder what's going on so I go talk to the check in desk in the restaurant and find out our group isn't due until 6:30pm. Now I'm completely confused so I try calling the guides. No answer. I had to call both guides multiple times before someone finally answered. Turns out we were supposed to meet at the large flower vase back at Grand Californian as everyone is now waiting for us in a meeting room at the hotel. We were NOT impressed. We were given the wrong information, which had been confirmed by a GUIDE and now we are the ones holding everyone up. By the time we get back to the hotel, we were actually going to just skip the rest of the night with the group but 2 ABD reps, they were our guides supervisors who were checking in periodically throughout the trip, found us on our way up to our room and basically insisted we come to the group gathering, insisting it was a miscommunication on our part that got the location messed up. My mom was so upset she really didn't want to go and it just totally ruined the rest of the evening. Needless to say, blaming us for the screw up of the guide left us with a really bad impression. We are giving them another chance with Central Europe but for 2017 we are looking at National Geographic.


----------



## sayhello

For me it's not any specific experience -- for the most part, my experiences have been fabulous.  For me it's the lack of Guarantee; the increase in deposit (that's non-refundable); how they keep getting more expensive, but the overall quality (as in things like number of guests) seems to be going down.  This is, unfortunately, a trend I've seen in Disney overall over the last few years that had seemed to skip ABD.  But now it *is* impacting ABD.  I truly believe most of this is being dictated by the corporate side, and not by the folks who actually design and run the trips, but it still means the product is being diluted.  I'm hoping a company that's a bit more stable and whose corporate side is a bit more customer friendly will be able to give me the same sort of experience without the logistic headaches.  The only way I'll know is by trying.

Sayhello


----------



## Rapunzellover

So sayhello....who else are you considering solo travel with? As a solo, I'd like input.


----------



## sayhello

Rapunzellover said:


> So sayhello....who else are you considering solo travel with? As a solo, I'd like input.


Well, I'm already booked on the ABD river cruise for 2016, so I'm just starting to look/consider for 2017.  So far, I've been looking at Thomson Family Adventures, but their lack of Adults Only trips would mean I'd need to find exactly the right trip on the shoulder season to consider them.  Possible, but not a front-runner.  I'm now starting to look more seriously at National Geographics, based on the input I've seen here.  I'll probably give Tauck a look, too.

Sayhello


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Calfan said:


> We booked England Coast to Coast with NatGeo because we wanted to do that specific hike across Northern England, and the NatGeo trip description sounded the best to us.  But now that I have gone on one NatGeo trip (and have another booked), I have a list of at least 10-15 more that I am dying to do (more hiking trips, but also family trips and others).  The things that most impressed us about NatGeo in comparison to ABD were that NatGeo guarantees its departures (at least the Adventures trips) once a minimum of 8 people has booked.  I have become very disenchanted with ABD's lack of a firm guarantee policy.  The other thing we really liked was the group size, which was capped at 16 (and we had 14). For the family trips, the maximum size is 25.  I much prefer the smaller group experience to ABD's 44 (and we had 49 on our ABD Baltics cruise add-on, which really had a negative impact on our experience).  On our England Coast to Coast trip, I pretty much knew everyone's name and something about them by the end of our welcome dinner and briefing.  The guide ratio on NatGeo was also way better than ABD.  We had three guides for 14 people versus 2 guides for 44 (or more!).  The baggage handling was also better with NatGeo.  Instead of early morning bag pulls, we simply left our bags in our rooms when we left a hotel that we wouldn't be returning to, and they were waiting for us in our room when we arrived at the next hotel (so no waiting for bags to be delivered either).  We were very impressed with the inns and hotels we stayed at, and the food as well.  Overall, just a really great experience.





sayhello said:


> For me it's not any specific experience -- for the most part, my experiences have been fabulous.  For me it's the lack of Guarantee; the increase in deposit (that's non-refundable); how they keep getting more expensive, but the overall quality (as in things like number of guests) seems to be going down.  This is, unfortunately, a trend I've seen in Disney overall over the last few years that had seemed to skip ABD.  But now it *is* impacting ABD.  I truly believe most of this is being dictated by the corporate side, and not by the folks who actually design and run the trips, but it still means the product is being diluted.  I'm hoping a company that's a bit more stable and whose corporate side is a bit more customer friendly will be able to give me the same sort of experience without the logistic headaches.  The only way I'll know is by trying.
> 
> Sayhello



I'm just going to say "ditto" to these two posts. I traveled on the NatGeo trip with Calfan and was pretty much blown away by the experience for all the reasons she mentioned--the three guides were fantastic, the food and lodging were tops (we had every meal paid for but one), and the small group size of 14 were my biggies. We often hear about ABD or Disney "Pixie dust," but NatGeo far outdid them IMO. The luggage issue was HUGE. I can't tell you how nice it was to just leave our bags in one hotel room and arrive it the next with the bags already there--now THAT is magic, LOL. We were also able to put any nonalcoholic drink on the "nat geo" account at the hotel. How cool is that? They also had little surprises along the way and a very very fun surprise at the end--with individual gag gifts. I'm hoping my DH and I will be able to join CalFan for NatGeo #2 in September, but we will definitely be going back in the future. I'm also trying to convince her to do Patagonia for a girl's trip  

My reasons for looking beyond ABD pretty much echo SayHello's with a few additions. I've also been extremely disappointed with the direction the company has been heading for the past few years and 100% agree that it's Disneywide and finally hitting ABD. The disenchantment began with the scaled back trips for more money (they've always done this but it's getting even more egregious, i.e. what they've done with Scotland), but reached full throttle after my Baltics ABD add-on this summer. In general I thought it was WAY overpriced for the activities that were included, but the biggest problem I had was the enormous group size. As Calfan mentioned we had 49! They claim that 50 is the new number for add-ons (show me where that was printed before our trip), but what was truly ridiculous is that on the ABD advertising video that played over and over on our cruise clearly stated 40 people. The groups sizes have been getting bigger and bigger, leading to very different experiences IMO and NOT what I'm paying all that money for. That is my biggest beef by far, but when I started exploring other companies and noticed the differences in guaranteeing trips (and after reading some horror stories here) that has become a huge factor for me as well. I also feel that the are doing lip service but really aren't listening to their customers. After a very nice (and long) conversation with customer service after our trip about the group sizes and the problems with their guarantee policy, they acted very concerned and I hoped they would listen. What did they do instead? Made the guarantee policy even worse! Ouch.

I fully believe this is going to end up costing ABD at some point, and if the market keeps tanking like it has so far this year that point might be sooner than later. Unlike the cruises and the parks, they aren't filling all their trips to capacity, and there isn't an endless stream of people who can take the place of a dissatisfied customer. It's a much smaller target demographic who can afford these trips. IOW you can't ignore loyal and repeat customers like you might be able to for the cruises and parks. If you look at this board as a a microcosm, some of the most vocal cheerleaders (including me) of the ABD product over the years have become much less positive. With an expensive product like ABD, they need good word of mouth and enthusiastic customers. I used to tell anyone who would listen how amazing they were--I don't any longer. In fact, I just discouraged my sister from using them for her family of 6. I would have canceled my ABD Greece for this summer if I could have gotten my deposit back and gone with another tour company. I'm sure we'll have fun, but I hope we don't have another cattle call. After this trip, it is going to take a corporate turn around to get me to book another trip. Even NZ and Australia


----------



## carpenta

............and when we traveled with Nat. Geo and Tauck at restaurant meals we ordered off the full menu and most of the time alcohol was included.


----------



## Calfan

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> I'm also trying to convince her to do Patagonia for a girl's trip



No convincing necessary  Sign me up!!


----------



## acndis

I kind of have had the opposite experience. We were ready to book with Nat Geo after the reviews here and the positive interaction I had with them researching the trip but then we went to SE Asia and the trip was absolutely perfect, flawless and I remembered why I love ABD so much. We were traveling with my 70+ dad and my eight year old son and the trip worked for everyone. At the end of the day, I just love the type of experiences on these trips. I really think that once you have done a few, booking the more exotic trips helps bring back your appreciation. While we were still in Cambodia, we changed our Christmas trip from the River Cruise to Peru and now are planning Australia for 2017 (ABD should pay Cousin Orville commission). However, I also endorse trying new things!  It's a great idea. However, I think we will wait until my son is older and/or my dad is no longer traveling with us.


----------



## Cousin Orville

acndis said:


> ...(ABD should pay Cousin Orville commission).



Agreed!  

You'll have a great time in Australia!


----------



## calypso726

I've been following this thread along and I echo what others have said. My Copenhagen pre-cruise ABD add-on was not worth the money it cost. We've been on 5 ABDs and Copenhagen was the only that I decided not to write a trip report for since I wasn't really impressed. I did love the guides though. The idea of 49 or 50 people as Calfan and Californiagirl had on their trip is a bit much and seems like the experienced would be watered down. Then there's the watering down of the itineraries like Scotland. It's sad because I've been a cheerleader for ABD ever since I went on the Scotland trip despite any misgivings that I had before-hand. 

Now that the deposit is higher, groups are larger and there are few guaranteed trips to be had we will also be looking at other companies as well. We've got the ABD river cruise and post cruise Prague add-on booked for this summer and Winter in Wyoming booked for the end of the year. I'm glad to hear about the good experiences with Nat. Geo. I'd like to go to Africa for my 50th birthday but ABD doesn't have Victoria Falls in their itinerary but some of the Nat. Geo ones do. Besides, that is definitely not a trip where I want to risk a cancellation.


----------



## Miss SD

This was the first year since 2008 that we haven't taken an ABD trip. My husband has refused to travel with ABD again since 2013, when our Scotland tour was led by two seemingly burned-out guides. Watching grown men get yelled at for helping themselves to a bottles of water was too much for him! Talk about cheap! When someone on the tour spilled the beans about how much the trip cost, he was not happy. (I didn't hide the price of the tours from him; he just never asked.) And I've decided that the only ABD tours I'm going to take will be with the DIS Unplugged podcast team. Kevin would nip any attitude problems in the bud.

I'm interested in an Abercrombie & Kent tour of Budapest, Vienna and Prague. It's fairly expensive, of course, but even my husband said, "Look at those fancy hotels they stay in!" And it's limited to 18 guests. I'd like to know if anyone has traveled with this company before.


----------



## carpenta

Burnt out or not the guides are employed in a service occupation. I agree with your husband because water can always be replaced with more. Repeat customers, not so much.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

Any guide yells at us and we're done. We'll leave the trip permanently...AFTER calling ABD directly to lodge a formal complaint.


----------



## calypso726

Miss SD said:


> This was the first year since 2008 that we haven't taken an ABD trip. My husband has refused to travel with ABD again since 2013, when our Scotland tour was led by two seemingly burned-out guides. Watching grown men get yelled at for helping themselves to a bottles of water was too much for him! Talk about cheap! When someone on the tour spilled the beans about how much the trip cost, he was not happy. (I didn't hide the price of the tours from him; he just never asked.) And I've decided that the only ABD tours I'm going to take will be with the DIS Unplugged podcast team. Kevin would nip any attitude problems in the bud.
> 
> I'm interested in an Abercrombie & Kent tour of Budapest, Vienna and Prague. It's fairly expensive, of course, but even my husband said, "Look at those fancy hotels they stay in!" And it's limited to 18 guests. I'd like to know if anyone has traveled with this company before.



I remember reading about that before our Scotland trip which was our first ABD. It was the first time I'd read anything negative about the guides and it freaked me out. I am so sorry that you and your husband did not have an awesome Scotland ABD. To this day that remains our favorite vacation. IIRC one of your guides was also on our ABD and we have had her on a subsequent ABD. She has been nothing short of Awesomesauce. I think if I would have had the experience you had in Scotland on my first ABD it would have certainly been my last ABD. Each of our guides since then have been amazing in their own unique ways. 

I too would be interested to know if anyone has done an Abercrombie and Kent and see how they compare to ABD or Nat. Geo.


----------



## Rapunzellover

Yelled at for grabbing water? ***? What on God's green earth was that for?


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

We are seriously considering doing an Abercrombie and Kent family trip to Peru in December.  The only ABD trip that fits our timetable is Amazon & the Galapagos, but the itinerary doesn't work for us (I'd rather take a tour boat around to the different islands as opposed to the ABD land-based stay there).  The A&K Peru trip covers most of the same areas / attractions as National Geographic and ABD and is priced fairly IMO.  Currently they only have a family of 7 booked so we are in a waiting pattern to see if more families book and what the demographics are.  AmEx Platinum also has a promo where you save $250.00 per person on an A&K family trip so that helps a bit.

Another December option for us is an African safari.  We are looking at doing a private trip as the ones offered through the tour companies don't fit our schedule.  If December doesn't work out for us then we would most likely consider booking the ABD S. Africa trip in the summer of 2017.  Just not sure what we will do yet.


----------



## Cousin Orville

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> We are seriously considering doing an Abercrombie and Kent family trip to Peru in December.  The only ABD trip that fits our timetable is Amazon & the Galapagos, but the itinerary doesn't work for us (I'd rather take a tour boat around to the different islands as opposed to the ABD land-based stay there).  The A&K Peru trip covers most of the same areas / attractions as National Geographic and ABD and is priced fairly IMO.  Currently they only have a family of 7 booked so we are in a waiting pattern to see if more families book and what the demographics are.  AmEx Platinum also has a promo where you save $250.00 per person on an A&K family trip so that helps a bit.
> 
> Another December option for us is an African safari.  We are looking at doing a private trip as the ones offered through the tour companies don't fit our schedule.  If December doesn't work out for us then we would most likely consider booking the ABD S. Africa trip in the summer of 2017.  Just not sure what we will do yet.



I've looked at that A&K Peru trip as well.  They visit Manchu Picchu twice and the entire trip is a little bit longer than ABD, right?  I liked their itinerary a little better than ABD's.


----------



## acndis

I would also be interested to find out about A & K.  They had a group in Saigon at the same time we were there and it skewed much, much older.  It  may be different on different itineraries, though.  It was enough to scare my husband into ABD forever.  We moved from the River Cruise to the ABD Peru for Christmas.  (Planning on Australia in 2017)


----------



## carpenta

Rapunzellover said:


> Yelled at for grabbing water? ***? What on God's green earth was that for?




.........As the saying goes "A reputation, a life time to build yet a minute to ruin"........that cast member made an impression I would say.


----------



## Miss SD

Rapunzellover said:


> Yelled at for grabbing water? ***? What on God's green earth was that for?



Like I said, they were burned out. We were one of the first trips for the general public (although about half were contest winners) and the guides had just spent weeks leading the press and other big shots around. And, right off the bat, they had to deal with adventurers whose flights were delayed and luggage was lost. (Contest winners who were not happy with Disney at all!) And then there was the kid who puked on the bus as we started on the road to Skye. (The smell lingered for the rest of the trip.) They both left for a much-needed trip back to the US after our tour. I understand one of the guides has since stepped up her game.


----------



## Bobo912

acndis said:


> I would also be interested to find out about A & K.  They had a group in Saigon at the same time we were there and it skewed much, much older.  It  may be different on different itineraries, though.  It was enough to scare my husband into ABD forever.  We moved from the River Cruise to the ABD Peru for Christmas.  (Planning on Australia in 2017)


 
When we flew to Guayaquil for our Galapagos trip a few years ago, there were some people on the flight who were also going to the Galapagos on an A&K tour.  They were not old, probably in their 30's and one family had children.  So maybe everybody isn't old.  



Cousin Orville said:


> I've looked at that A&K Peru trip as well.  They visit Manchu Picchu twice and the entire trip is a little bit longer than ABD, right?  I liked their itinerary a little better than ABD's.


 
Before traveling to Peru, I was trying to decide between ABD and Nat Geo.  I had already traveled with Nat Geo once and know that they are fantastic. The Nat GeoPeru trip stays at Sol y Luna like ABD (in fact they were there at the same time as we were), but they also spend a night at the Santuary Lodge.  I foolishly thought that I couldn't justify the additional cost just to stay one night at the Santuary Lodge, but I was totally wrong and have regretted it ever since.  The ABD trip doesn't allow enough time at Machu Picchu and being there first thing in the morning before other tourist arrive would definitely be worth it.  And since ABD prices seem to increase quite a bit every year, the price differential is less now than when I took the trip 3 years ago.  I don't know if A&K stays at the Santuary Lodge, but if they stay there or at Aguas Calientes and take you up to Machu Picchu twice, either of those options is better than ABD, IMO.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Cousin Orville said:


> I've looked at that A&K Peru trip as well.  They visit Manchu Picchu twice and the entire trip is a little bit longer than ABD, right?  I liked their itinerary a little better than ABD's.



Yes, the trip is 1 day longer than ABD.  The last day with A&K is swimming with sea lions on Palomino Island.  Not necessarily a deal breaker for me, but it sounds quite nice.  A&K indeed goes to Machu Pichu twice.  The first day follows an overnight stay at the Inkaterra Machu Pichu, then ventures into Machu Pichu and spends some time at a local school.  The next night is at the Aranwa Cusco and involves seeing the sunrise at Machu Pichu and a half day there before heading back to Cusco.



Bobo912 said:


> Before traveling to Peru, I was trying to decide between ABD and Nat Geo.  I had already traveled with Nat Geo once and know that they are fantastic. The Nat GeoPeru trip stays at Sol y Luna like ABD (in fact they were there at the same time as we were), but they also spend a night at the Santuary Lodge.  I foolishly thought that I couldn't justify the additional cost just to stay one night at the Santuary Lodge, but I was totally wrong and have regretted it ever since.  The ABD trip doesn't allow enough time at Machu Picchu and being there first thing in the morning before other tourist arrive would definitely be worth it.  And since ABD prices seem to increase quite a bit every year, the price differential is less now than when I took the trip 3 years ago.  I don't know if A&K stays at the Santuary Lodge, but if they stay there or at Aguas Calientes and take you up to Machu Picchu twice, either of those options is better than ABD, IMO.



Nat Geo family trip in December doesn't stay at the Sanctuary Lodge.  Their trip is only 5.5 days yet is sold as an 8 day trip.  The first day is a travel day (with the group meet on the morning of day 2) and the 8th day is when you arrive home (with most flights back to the US from Lima being overnight and leaving on day 7).  With the exception of the last night of the trip the hotels A&K Connections and Nat Geo use are identical.

Having suffered from acute altitude sickness while skiing in Vail years ago I am still a bit nervous about taking this trip.  Traveling alone with a child with the possibility of becoming ill is scary.  It happened to a friend of mine who was traveling in a small group with a single mother of 2 to Peru a few years back with G Adventures (the owner of the company had kids at the same school my daughter used to attend and he organized small trips for parents once a year).  They had to call in a local doctor to administer fluids and she was bedridden for at least 2 days.

Maybe Africa in December is a better option for us.  As adventurous as I am I do have my limits .  I wish there was an easy decision.


----------



## Miss SD

acndis said:


> I would also be interested to find out about A & K.  They had a group in Saigon at the same time we were there and it skewed much, much older.  It  may be different on different itineraries, though.  It was enough to scare my husband into ABD forever.  We moved from the River Cruise to the ABD Peru for Christmas.  (Planning on Australia in 2017)


I was thinking A&K probably skewed older. Thanks for the information.


----------



## Cousin Orville

Miss SD said:


> I was thinking A&K probably skewed older. Thanks for the information.



A&K has some family tours but admittedly it's selection is limited.  One of the family tours is Peru though.


----------



## Rapunzellover

I'm currently consulting with A&K about a private solo Portugal trip for 2017. I've found them very professional and thorough in communication.


----------



## Bobo912

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> Yes, the trip is 1 day longer than ABD.  The last day with A&K is swimming with sea lions on Palomino Island.  Not necessarily a deal breaker for me, but it sounds quite nice.  A&K indeed goes to Machu Pichu twice.  The first day follows an overnight stay at the Inkaterra Machu Pichu, then ventures into Machu Pichu and spends some time at a local school.  The next night is at the Aranwa Cusco and involves seeing the sunrise at Machu Pichu and a half day there before heading back to Cusco.
> 
> 
> 
> Nat Geo family trip in December doesn't stay at the Sanctuary Lodge.  Their trip is only 5.5 days yet is sold as an 8 day trip.  The first day is a travel day (with the group meet on the morning of day 2) and the 8th day is when you arrive home (with most flights back to the US from Lima being overnight and leaving on day 7).  With the exception of the last night of the trip the hotels A&K Connections and Nat Geo use are identical.
> 
> Having suffered from acute altitude sickness while skiing in Vail years ago I am still a bit nervous about taking this trip.  Traveling alone with a child with the possibility of becoming ill is scary.  It happened to a friend of mine who was traveling in a small group with a single mother of 2 to Peru a few years back with G Adventures (the owner of the company had kids at the same school my daughter used to attend and he organized small trips for parents once a year).  They had to call in a local doctor to administer fluids and she was bedridden for at least 2 days.
> 
> Maybe Africa in December is a better option for us.  As adventurous as I am I do have my limits .  I wish there was an easy decision.



Wasn't referring to the family trip.  Neither the Nat Geo trip I took nor the group in Peru that I met were family trips, but there were a lot of kids on both.


----------



## Cousin Orville

Bobo912 said:


> Before traveling to Peru, I was trying to decide between ABD and Nat Geo.  I had already traveled with Nat Geo once and know that they are fantastic. The Nat GeoPeru trip stays at Sol y Luna like ABD (in fact they were there at the same time as we were), but they also spend a night at the Santuary Lodge.  I foolishly thought that I couldn't justify the additional cost just to stay one night at the Santuary Lodge, but I was totally wrong and have regretted it ever since.  The ABD trip doesn't allow enough time at Machu Picchu and being there first thing in the morning before other tourist arrive would definitely be worth it.  And since ABD prices seem to increase quite a bit every year, the price differential is less now than when I took the trip 3 years ago.  I don't know if A&K stays at the Santuary Lodge, but if they stay there or at Aguas Calientes and take you up to Machu Picchu twice, either of those options is better than ABD, IMO.



Thanks for the advice.  I've really been interested in doing the Peru ABD for several years now, but this has been a sticking point.  Manchu Picchu is such a bucket list item, I'm just concerned I'd want to have a 2nd day to visit perhaps at a different time of day.  If they had a similar itinerary as A&K and maybe others, I'm sure I would have done Peru by now.


----------



## Cousin Orville

Bobo912 said:


> Wasn't referring to the family trip.  Neither the Nat Geo trip I took nor the group in Peru that I met were family trips, but there were a lot of kids on both.



That's very interesting.  What age range would you say?  And I remember others mentioning there were 3 categories of Nat Geo trips.  What category was this?


----------



## Cousin Orville

Rapunzellover said:


> I'm currently consulting with A&K about a private solo Portugal trip for 2017. I've found them very professional and thorough in communication.



What do they set up for you in a solo trip out of curiosity?  Hotels, restaurants, transportation between places, guides?


----------



## Rapunzellover

i haven't discussed food yet, Cousin O, but it seems like they'd take care of the rest-- it's quite lux.


----------



## carpenta

Rapunzellover said:


> i haven't discussed food yet, Cousin O, but it seems like they'd take care of the rest-- it's quite lux.



......as they sing in "Grease"....."Tell me more, tell me more....."


----------



## Bobo912

Cousin Orville said:


> That's very interesting.  What age range would you say?  And I remember others mentioning there were 3 categories of Nat Geo trips.  What category was this?



Both were expeditions.  Our trip was a cruise in the Galapagos, so it was a bigger group.  For our group of 94 guests we had an expedition leader, 6 naturalists and a video chronicler.  There were 14 kids (unless I'm forgetting somebody) between ages 9 and 16, with the majority of them being 11 to 13.  I would say most of the parents with children were in their late 30's to late 40's.  There were maybe 4 people in their 60's or 70s, one grandmother with her daughter and granddaughter, a mother with her grown son, and a gentleman traveling solo who had booked the trip for himself and his wife, who passed away before the trip, and a lady traveling solo. The remainder were couples in their 30's, 40's and 50's, including a couple who were married on board the ship as we cruised around Leon Dormido.  Our trip began on March 12, which was during spring break for us, but I think our spring breaks are earlier than a lot of US schools.  But there were still quite a few kids.

The two couples that I met who were with the Nat Geo group in Peru were late 30's/early 40s with kids around 10-12, I would guess.  Of course, I don't know who all of the people were with Nat Geo, but Sol y Luna isn't that big, so it was probably every other guests who wasn't part of the ABD group.  I don't recall seeing a lot of older people, like the Tauck group we saw in California wheeling around their oxygen tanks.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

calypso726 said:


> Now that the deposit is higher, groups are larger and there are few guaranteed trips to be had we will also be looking at other companies as well. We've got the ABD river cruise and post cruise Prague add-on booked for this summer and Winter in Wyoming booked for the end of the year. I'm glad to hear about the good experiences with Nat. Geo. I'd like to go to Africa for my 50th birthday but ABD doesn't have Victoria Falls in their itinerary but some of the Nat. Geo ones do. Besides, that is definitely not a trip where I want to risk a cancellation.



You could always book the ABD S. Africa and use a private company to add on Victoria Falls.  I have been corresponding with Rhino Tours in S. Africa and they are amazing.  Honestly the range of options for safaris in Africa is mind boggling.  Having said that I think the best combination for us would be Cape Town (it's supposed to beautiful), the Garden Route and Kruger Park (all covered by ABD).  Then a flight from Johannesburg to Livingstone to see the falls (a day or 2 max is all that is needed).  After visiting the falls you could travel to Botswana (easy drive from Livingstone) for a few days for another safari before flying from Kasane Airport back to Johannesburg and back home (perhaps with a brief visit in London).  From what I've heard people keep going back to Africa year after year to visit so what you don't see with ABD you'd likely see again another time.  

Honestly there are so many independent safari operators in Africa that I don't think it would be a problem if ABD cancelled a planned trip.  You could give the itinerary to a local tour operator and they could duplicate it (or tweak it to your specifications) for less money I'm sure.  You wouldn't be with a group and maybe wouldn't have the little surprises but you'd have a more intimate experience and do exactly _what_ you wanted _when_ you wanted.  If you wanted to sit and watch elephants for 2 hours you could do exactly that.  Believe me if it wasn't just myself and my soon-to-be 14 year-old daughter I would do a solo trip in a heartbeat.  But a large part of me feels that she needs the group interaction at this point.  

You should check out some of the private reserves in Kruger like Sabi Sands and the Singita Boulder Lodge.  WOW.  Luxury safari defined.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Bobo912 said:


> Both were expeditions.  Our trip was a cruise in the Galapagos, so it was a bigger group.  For our group of 94 guests we had an expedition leader, 6 naturalists and a video chronicler.  There were 14 kids (unless I'm forgetting somebody) between ages 9 and 16, with the majority of them being 11 to 13.  I would say most of the parents with children were in their late 30's to late 40's.  There were maybe 4 people in their 60's or 70s, one grandmother with her daughter and granddaughter, a mother with her grown son, and a gentleman traveling solo who had booked the trip for himself and his wife, who passed away before the trip, and a lady traveling solo. The remainder were couples in their 30's, 40's and 50's, including a couple who were married on board the ship as we cruised around Leon Dormido.  Our trip began on March 12, which was during spring break for us, but I think our spring breaks are earlier than a lot of US schools.  But there were still quite a few kids.
> 
> The two couples that I met who were with the Nat Geo group in Peru were late 30's/early 40s with kids around 10-12, I would guess.  Of course, I don't know who all of the people were with Nat Geo, but Sol y Luna isn't that big, so it was probably every other guests who wasn't part of the ABD group.  I don't recall seeing a lot of older people, like the Tauck group we saw in California wheeling around their oxygen tanks.



Lol at the Tauck comment!

It had never occurred to me to look at Nat Geo trips that weren't family ones.  That might be another option for us.  I'm just not fond of how they market their Peru trip as 8 days when it is only 5.5 days of touring; they count 2 full days of traveling (to get there and to return home) as "trip" time.  I find that to be a bit deceptive.  But that's just me.  I've always been a tad irked that ABD expects guests to tip the guides for the first day (which is just a meet and greet dinner) and the last day (departure to the airport).  But at least the first day you actually see the guides; the last day we only saw the guides once in our 3 trips (that was in Australia this past summer - they both came down to see everyone before we boarded the coach to the airport).  Again just my opinion for what it's worth !


----------



## Rapunzellover

carpenta said:


> ......as they sing in "Grease"....."Tell me more, tell me more....."



I'm just getting estimates. Not much to tell yet. They gave me some sample itinerary. We're using it as a template. I consulted with kensington and travcoa but like A&K best. Their people seemed most interested in my business. 

What more do you want to know?


----------



## Bobo912

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> Lol at the Tauck comment!
> 
> It had never occurred to me to look at Nat Geo trips that weren't family ones.  That might be another option for us.  I'm just not fond of how they market their Peru trip as 8 days when it is only 5.5 days of touring; they count 2 full days of traveling (to get there and to return home) as "trip" time.  I find that to be a bit deceptive.  But that's just me.  I've always been a tad irked that ABD expects guests to tip the guides for the first day (which is just a meet and greet dinner) and the last day (departure to the airport).  But at least the first day you actually see the guides; the last day we only saw the guides once in our 3 trips (that was in Australia this past summer - they both came down to see everyone before we boarded the coach to the airport).  Again just my opinion for what it's worth !



I get it, but it seems like most companies count the first and last day which are mainly just travel days.  The first day of the ABD Peru trip is a travel day with no activities or meals and the guides were in the hotel lobby for maybe an hour in the morning and we didn't see them again that day. The eighth day is a flight from Cusco to Lima for the farewell lunch, after which the trip is basically over.  About 3/4 of our group, including one of the guides, flew out that night.  We had 3 guides because they were preparing for the press trip that was coming up after us.  The two guides that weren't flying home, went out to dinner together, and weren't at the hotel to see us off, so we never saw them again after the farewell lunch.  There were a few guests with morning flights on the 9th day, which was nothing but breakfast for those few remaining travelers and a transport to the airport.  So we saw the guides for a few minutes on Day 1, went home on Day 8 and had a 7 day trip for which we tipped for 9 days.  I guess it's my own stupidity that I tipped for the 9th day when I wasn't even there, but I didn't even think about it until it was too late.


----------



## calypso726

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> You could always book the ABD S. Africa and use a private company to add on Victoria Falls.  I have been corresponding with Rhino Tours in S. Africa and they are amazing.  Honestly the range of options for safaris in Africa is mind boggling.  Having said that I think the best combination for us would be Cape Town (it's supposed to beautiful), the Garden Route and Kruger Park (all covered by ABD).  Then a flight from Johannesburg to Livingstone to see the falls (a day or 2 max is all that is needed).  After visiting the falls you could travel to Botswana (easy drive from Livingstone) for a few days for another safari before flying from Kasane Airport back to Johannesburg and back home (perhaps with a brief visit in London).  From what I've heard people keep going back to Africa year after year to visit so what you don't see with ABD you'd likely see again another time.
> 
> Honestly there are so many independent safari operators in Africa that I don't think it would be a problem if ABD cancelled a planned trip.  You could give the itinerary to a local tour operator and they could duplicate it (or tweak it to your specifications) for less money I'm sure.  You wouldn't be with a group and maybe wouldn't have the little surprises but you'd have a more intimate experience and do exactly _what_ you wanted _when_ you wanted.  If you wanted to sit and watch elephants for 2 hours you could do exactly that.  Believe me if it wasn't just myself and my soon-to-be 14 year-old daughter I would do a solo trip in a heartbeat.  But a large part of me feels that she needs the group interaction at this point.
> 
> You should check out some of the private reserves in Kruger like Sabi Sands and the Singita Boulder Lodge.  WOW.  Luxury safari defined.



Thanks for the advice! Prior to the higher deposit and larger group changes with ABD we were considering doing the ABD Africa and then adding on Victoria Falls on the front or back end as well as a visit with the Maasai and we may still go that route but it remains to be seen. We did wind up copying the ABD itinerary for Ireland and using a private tour company since the ABD dates didn't work out for us. I'm sure we could do that for Africa but like you said there are sooooo many tour operators so narrowing things down will be difficult.


----------



## Grifdog22

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> Out of curiosity, what was it that made you (anyone on this thread) decide to start looking at other tour companies? Was it just the lack of trip guarantees or was it something specific that happened?
> 
> I'll start. On our very first trip last year, which was the Southern California Disneyland trip, we had a great time right up until the very last evening, when ABD screwed up. Throughout the week we had taken part in all the optional activities until the last full trip day at California Adventure. We opted to skip seeing Aladdin (we'd seen the full sized Broadway show a few months earlier) and we really didn't want to see the Frozen sing-a-long after having WDW be nothing but Frozen this and Frozen that. Plus California Adventure had the one attraction I was dying to ride so we opted to skip the optional activities and hit some of the attractions. As the group broke up for lunch/free/optional time, the guides asked us what we were planning to do since we were skipping the optional activities. I told them we were hitting the rides, especially the giant roller coaster behind us at the time (California Screamin'). They seemed surprised but that didn't bother us. I was dying to ride it and I was going to do just that. Our Disney guide had to talk to our DL Guest Relations liaison so we asked our other guide what time and where were we supposed to meet for dinner that night. He told us to meet everyone at the large flower vase at Carthay Circle Restaurant at 5pm. I thought this was a bit odd because the only large vase I remembered seeing at Carthay Circle was up in the centre of the restaurant so I confirmed that I heard him correctly and he again said the vase at Carthay Circle at 5pm. With the meeting time confirmed my mom and I headed off on our own for a great afternoon of hitting the major attractions at California Adventure. As 5pm approaches we head over to Carthay Circle to meet up with everyone only no one is there and no one is showing up. After about 10 minutes of waiting without anyone from our group nor our guides showing up we start to wonder what's going on so I go talk to the check in desk in the restaurant and find out our group isn't due until 6:30pm. Now I'm completely confused so I try calling the guides. No answer. I had to call both guides multiple times before someone finally answered. Turns out we were supposed to meet at the large flower vase back at Grand Californian as everyone is now waiting for us in a meeting room at the hotel. We were NOT impressed. We were given the wrong information, which had been confirmed by a GUIDE and now we are the ones holding everyone up. By the time we get back to the hotel, we were actually going to just skip the rest of the night with the group but 2 ABD reps, they were our guides supervisors who were checking in periodically throughout the trip, found us on our way up to our room and basically insisted we come to the group gathering, insisting it was a miscommunication on our part that got the location messed up. My mom was so upset she really didn't want to go and it just totally ruined the rest of the evening. Needless to say, blaming us for the screw up of the guide left us with a really bad impression. We are giving them another chance with Central Europe but for 2017 we are looking at National Geographic.



We have done four ABD trips and our last one was a major disappointment. The guides were disengaged. The "big" event for us, a full afternoon tour of the Hayden Valley at Yellowstone, was simply cancelled for no reason or explanation except that the guides said they needed to return to set up the farewell dinner. There were no added touches on our trip. We had more fun on our own. The tours no longer, to us, justify the premium price.

I just can't get over the cancellation of the Hayden Valley tour, which was what we had looked forward to the most. 

Many trips have hiccups, and we can go with the flow. In Peru there was domestic unrest and ABD handled it well. We still managed all of the major tour aspects. South Africa when the IS killed Bin Laden. No worries. Winter in Wyoming. Poorly executed. Too expensive for the product. Too many risks-cancellations, etc.now. 

What struck home for us was we had a Disney Exec and her husband on the last trip with us-and they opted out of a number of the activities. They did things that were much more fun. We chose poorly by sticking with ABD.

We look elsewhere for guided trips or tours.ABD lost us and our vocal endorsements.

We recently visited WDW again, on the other hand, and thoroughly had a blast. Pure magic.

So I fault the guides in our case, management overall on execution, and the VP responsible for not giving a damn. We also had come with high expectations. Don't get me wrong-the scenery was spectacular. We just didn't see much of it with ABD.


----------



## carpenta

We did Yellowstone with Nat. Geo and I can't think of enough compliments to give the company and guides......outstanding trip for everyone involved. Everything that was promised and then some. I "feel your pain" about the quality vs. cost issue.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Grifdog22 said:


> The tours no longer, to us, justify the premium price.



This is basically it for me, too--which I find so sad. I think they had a fabulous niche product going, but now it just seems like an expensive tour. That was my my biggest gripe with the ABD Baltics Add-on aside from the huge group--it's wasn't that it was "bad," there just wasn't anything really special about it. It was pretty much just a tour group. ABD seems to be moving in the direction of taking away (in the case of Scotland) or not offering (in the case of the Baltics Add-on) the special/VIP things that make the trips unique. I still can't get over that they eliminated an entire day from the Scotland itinerary (including a flight on a private plane to Lewis) and charged the same price--or maybe it was more, I can't remember. That was one of our favorite days, and the private plane was awesome.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> We are seriously considering doing an Abercrombie and Kent family trip to Peru in December.  The only ABD trip that fits our timetable is Amazon & the Galapagos, but the itinerary doesn't work for us (I'd rather take a tour boat around to the different islands as opposed to the ABD land-based stay there).  The A&K Peru trip covers most of the same areas / attractions as National Geographic and ABD and is priced fairly IMO.  Currently they only have a family of 7 booked so we are in a waiting pattern to see if more families book and what the demographics are.  AmEx Platinum also has a promo where you save $250.00 per person on an A&K family trip so that helps a bit.
> 
> Another December option for us is an African safari.  We are looking at doing a private trip as the ones offered through the tour companies don't fit our schedule.  If December doesn't work out for us then we would most likely consider booking the ABD S. Africa trip in the summer of 2017.  Just not sure what we will do yet.



You should look at the Private Expeditions offered by Nat Geo for Africa. These trips can be booked at your convenience so you pick the dates that work for you.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

Miss SD said:


> Like I said, they were burned out. We were one of the first trips for the general public (although about half were contest winners) and the guides had just spent weeks leading the press and other big shots around. And, right off the bat, they had to deal with adventurers whose flights were delayed and luggage was lost. (Contest winners who were not happy with Disney at all!) And then there was the kid who puked on the bus as we started on the road to Skye. (The smell lingered for the rest of the trip.) They both left for a much-needed trip back to the US after our tour. I understand one of the guides has since stepped up her game.



This is no excuse for yelling at your guests. They work in the service industry. It's their job to lead groups of people around and not yell at them for taking something that was paid for by the group members. It doesn't matter who they may or may not have led or be leading. Yelling at your guests is a sure fire way to a. lose your guests as a potential returning guest and b. get your butt fired.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

calypso726 said:


> Thanks for the advice! Prior to the higher deposit and larger group changes with ABD we were considering doing the ABD Africa and then adding on Victoria Falls on the front or back end as well as a visit with the Maasai and we may still go that route but it remains to be seen. We did wind up copying the ABD itinerary for Ireland and using a private tour company since the ABD dates didn't work out for us. I'm sure we could do that for Africa but like you said there are sooooo many tour operators so narrowing things down will be difficult.



Nat Geo will do a customized trip for your travelling party, whether that's a group of 2 or 4 or 10. You tell them where you want to, what you want to see and they will create something for you.


----------



## tracyz

We're going to the Galapagos this summer with another company and here's why:
After 4 ABD's, my family was completely sold on them and felt like loyal customers.  I talked them up to everyone and was decided that all of our big vacations would involve ABD.  However, about a year ago we decided that our next trip was going to be the Galapagos, and it would be summer 2016.  I love to plan ahead and lock in the next trip so I have something to be really excited about.  I was getting antsy waiting for ABD to open up 2016 dates, so I did some comparison shopping, mostly just to feed my excitement.  What I found was a trip that fit our wishes better, was slightly less expensive, and was open for booking at that time.  The tour company we booked with contracts with a company in the Galapagos called Ecoventura.
The trip we booked is a 7 night cruise, rather than the 3 (or 4?) nights you get with ABD.  We are really focused on the Galapagos part of the trip, so that's good for us.  We'll arrive in Ecuador a couple of days early and see the couple of sights we are interested in on our own "on the cheap."
The other BIG selling point was that the group on our boat will be a max of 20 people (and it's a family-based trip...the company actually sends out 3 boats at once and divides the groups onto the different boats based on the ages of the kids!).  Our first ABD was a group of 21, and it was perfect.  We really got to know everyone in that group and made some lasting friendships.  Subsequent ABD's had around 40, and it was too big a crowd for my liking.  It felt a little like we were being herded.
There's a part of me that is a little nervous trying a new company, when we know that ABD is a guaranteed win in our opinion.  But with this find, I'll likely be doing more shopping in the future before blindly booking with ABD.
So long story short, the journey began with frustration at the belatedness of release of next year's itineraries, but my biggest area of discontent with ABD at this point is those large group sizes.  For that kind of money, I don't want to feel like part of a crowd.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

tracyz said:


> We're going to the Galapagos this summer with another company and here's why:
> After 4 ABD's, my family was completely sold on them and felt like loyal customers.  I talked them up to everyone and was decided that all of our big vacations would involve ABD.
> So long story short, the journey began with frustration at the belatedness of release of next year's itineraries, but my biggest area of discontent with ABD at this point is those large group sizes.  For that kind of money, I don't want to feel like part of a crowd.



Can you tell us what company you are using?  

I have been waiting for 9+ days for ABD to let me know if we can be accommodated on the late December Amazon / Galapagos trip (I was told 3 - 4 days).  To me this is horrible service; can my TA e-mail me an update, i.e. "still waiting to hear back from ABD" or is the assumption that the product is so superior I am waiting by the computer for acceptance?  Ugh.

While waiting I discovered the same thing you did.  The time in the Galapagos with ABD is spent at a land-based hotel as opposed to a ship (and only a few days at that).  From what I have read you are going to see a lot more if you stay on a ship at night simply because of the ease to move about the islands overnight.  The one BIG plus with ABD is the cruise down the Amazon on what looks to be a brand new, beautiful ship.  So it would be a toss up for me.  Assuming ABD (via my TA) ever gets back to me


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> Can you tell us what company you are using?
> 
> I have been waiting for 9+ days for ABD to let me know if we can be accommodated on the late December Amazon / Galapagos trip (I was told 3 - 4 days).  To me this is horrible service; can my TA e-mail me an update, i.e. "still waiting to hear back from ABD" or is the assumption that the product is so superior I am waiting by the computer for acceptance?  Ugh.
> 
> While waiting I discovered the same thing you did.  The time in the Galapagos with ABD is spent at a land-based hotel as opposed to a ship (and only a few days at that).  From what I have read you are going to see a lot more if you stay on a ship at night simply because of the ease to move about the islands overnight.  The one BIG plus with ABD is the cruise down the Amazon on what looks to be a brand new, beautiful ship.  So it would be a toss up for me.  Assuming ABD (via my TA) ever gets back to me



Have you taken a look at National Geographic? It doesn't go in December but if you want to cruise the Galapagos, take a look at this trip. http://www.nationalgeographicexpeditions.com/expeditions/galapagos-family-cruise/detail


----------



## Bobo912

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> Have you taken a look at National Geographic? It doesn't go in December but if you want to cruise the Galapagos, take a look at this trip. http://www.nationalgeographicexpeditions.com/expeditions/galapagos-family-cruise/detail


 
This is the same itinerary and ship as our Nat Geo Galapagos trip and it was the most amazing trip we've ever taken in many ways.  We chosse Nat Geo because the cruise was longer than what ABD offered.  And I'm very glad we did, because the staff, crew and naturalists were amazing.  From my experience with 5 ABDs, I would say they definitely fall short in comparison.  The regular trip (not listed as family) is exactly the same and does have dates in December.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

Bobo912 said:


> This is the same itinerary and ship as our Nat Geo Galapagos trip and it was the most amazing trip we've ever taken in many ways.  We chosse Nat Geo because the cruise was longer than what ABD offered.  And I'm very glad we did, because the staff, crew and naturalists were amazing.  From my experience with 5 ABDs, I would say they definitely fall short in comparison.  The regular trip (not listed as family) is exactly the same and does have dates in December.



We're looking at doing National Geographic next year. We're booked for Central Europe with ABD this September but we like the itineraries with Nat Geo better. Especially the Private Expeditions to South Africa and Cambodia/Vietnam.


----------



## tracyz

We found a company called Austin Adventures that does a bunch of "adventure travel" trips.  They do a lot of itineraries similar to ABD, so I'll be looking at them in the future as well to compare the options.  In the Galapagos, though, I believe they pretty much just contract with Ecoventura.  It seems like they must have exclusive dates reserved for their departures, but Ecoventura is its own company and you can book them directly as well.  Their website has some good info, and I've been following them on Facebook - they seem great!


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

tracyz said:


> We found a company called Austin Adventures that does a bunch of "adventure travel" trips.  They do a lot of itineraries similar to ABD, so I'll be looking at them in the future as well to compare the options.  In the Galapagos, though, I believe they pretty much just contract with Ecoventura.  It seems like they must have exclusive dates reserved for their departures, but Ecoventura is its own company and you can book them directly as well.  Their website has some good info, and I've been following them on Facebook - they seem great!



I've looked at many of their trips in the past.  They sound like a great company.  I hope you will write a review for us when you get back so we know how it compares to ABD!


----------



## Bobo912

I just received the email below from Thomson Family Adventures and I received a similar email from Tauck last week.  I often see Thomson trips sold out, and I know Tauck has no problem filling up their trips, as well, so I believe these two companies are doing this because it is the right way to treat their customers.  Unfortunately, I would be very surprised to see ABD do anything like this.  They could learn some lessons from their competitors.

_Check Out our New Low Prices for Thailand, Ireland, and Canada_

_We have some exciting news. Your family can now visit *Thailand, Ireland, and Canada for up to $3,200 less than before*. The rate for Ireland is now $800 less per person and Thailand and Canada are now $400 less per person. *The US Dollar has gotten stronger* against the Thai Baht, the Euro, and the Canadian Dollar and we’re able to pass these savings onto you, our guests! *Explore the exotic natural landscapes of Thailand, the beautiful green Irish country side, or the breathtaking Canadian Rocky mountains *for a lower price without sacrificing any of the quality that Thomson Family Adventures is known for!_


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Bobo912 said:


> I just received the email below from Thomson Family Adventures and I received a similar email from Tauck last week.  I often see Thomson trips sold out, and I know Tauck has no problem filling up their trips, as well, so I believe these two companies are doing this because it is the right way to treat their customers.  Unfortunately, I would be very surprised to see ABD do anything like this.  They could learn some lessons from their competitors.
> 
> _Check Out our New Low Prices for Thailand, Ireland, and Canada_
> 
> _We have some exciting news. Your family can now visit *Thailand, Ireland, and Canada for up to $3,200 less than before*. The rate for Ireland is now $800 less per person and Thailand and Canada are now $400 less per person. *The US Dollar has gotten stronger* against the Thai Baht, the Euro, and the Canadian Dollar and we’re able to pass these savings onto you, our guests! *Explore the exotic natural landscapes of Thailand, the beautiful green Irish country side, or the breathtaking Canadian Rocky mountains *for a lower price without sacrificing any of the quality that Thomson Family Adventures is known for!_


Wow, that is pretty awesome! I definitely can't imagine Disney doing something like that.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

We took the jump and have booked a trip to Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia with National Geographic Adventures. This trip costs slightly more than the ABD one but has all but 2 meals included, a few more stops in Vietnam, 2 nights on a private boat in Ha Long Bay plus 1 extra day overall. Also, while there is some 'downtime' worked into the itinerary, there are no 'down days' like there are on the ABD when they are in Hoi An. We have a year to wait for it but definitely looking forward to it.


----------



## carpenta

Happy travels Cinderella's Slipper 2015. Sounds wonderful.


----------



## Calfan

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> We took the jump and have booked a trip to Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia with National Geographic Adventures. This trip costs slightly more than the ABD one but has all but 2 meals included, a few more stops in Vietnam, 2 nights on a private boat in Ha Long Bay plus 1 extra day overall. Also, while there is some 'downtime' worked into the itinerary, there are no 'down days' like there are on the ABD when they are in Hoi An. We have a year to wait for it but definitely looking forward to it.



Please make sure to come back and post about your experience on this trip with NatGeo.  Angkor Wat is definitely on my bucket list, and I could see doing this trip a few years down the road.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

Calfan said:


> Please make sure to come back and post about your experience on this trip with NatGeo.  Angkor Wat is definitely on my bucket list, and I could see doing this trip a few years down the road.



Will do. We're actually looking at the trip you did across Northern England with Nat Geo. It's on our list of trips to do but we wanted to start with an "easy to moderate" trip first. We are booked on the February 4, 2017 departure. What I love is the fact that I've already got access to pre-trip information which is going to make getting ready for this trip so much easier.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> Will do. We're actually looking at the trip you did across Northern England with Nat Geo. It's on our list of trips to do but we wanted to start with an "easy to moderate" trip first. We are booked on the February 4, 2017 departure. What I love is the fact that I've already got access to pre-trip information which is going to make getting ready for this trip so much easier.


I can't wait to hear, too. Also it on my list. We were really impressed with our trip coordinator. Hope you have a similar experience. Lol on the walk across England. It was awesome but not a bad idea to work up to and get a feel for the trips.


----------



## Calfan

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> Will do. We're actually looking at the trip you did across Northern England with Nat Geo. It's on our list of trips to do but we wanted to start with an "easy to moderate" trip first. We are booked on the February 4, 2017 departure. What I love is the fact that I've already got access to pre-trip information which is going to make getting ready for this trip so much easier.



It was great to get the pre-trip info (especially the packing list, which for me turned in to a shopping list of hiking equipment I had to buy, LOL) so far in advance, and, as CaliforniaGirl mentioned, having the trip coordinator was fantastic.  I emailed her with all sorts of questions, and she always got right back to me.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

Calfan said:


> It was great to get the pre-trip info (especially the packing list, which for me turned in to a shopping list of hiking equipment I had to buy, LOL) so far in advance, and, as CaliforniaGirl mentioned, having the trip coordinator was fantastic.  I emailed her with all sorts of questions, and she always got right back to me.



I love the fact that we have a packing list specific to the area in which we are going. Packing for Vietnam is not the same as packing for Europe. We're going to start making our own list of things we need to get to supplement what we already have. I haven't had a chance to really sit down and look at everything that's on our trip page but I plan to do that this weekend. I'm sure I'll have tons of questions for our coordinator, even though it's a year away. Also, since our trip includes bicycling and kayaking we're going to brush up on those. Looking into a kayaking lessons so that we're not completely clueless when we get on the river in Vietnam. Also, neither of us has been on a bike in AGES so want to make sure we can still balance and ride safely. I actually found a bike shop not too far from where we live that rents bikes by the day. We are also going to get our own bike helmets to take with us cause lender helmets never fit properly.


----------



## tgeorge

Yes, please do come back and let us know how this trip was.  I really, really want to do SE Asia and every since the Nat Geo trips were talked about on this thread I've looked into them.  I've read Cousin Orville's report for the ABD he took with his son and it sounds absolutely amazing.  The Nat Geo trip looks very cool as well!  I will book one of them and would love to hear your thoughts on it.


----------



## BluesTraveler

I have been following this thread with interest.  We are booked on our first ABD this summer - Alaska.  We are really looking forward to it.  I've been watching these trips for several years, and just waiting for my youngest to get to the age where I think he'll really get a lot out of it (they'll be 11 and 8 this summer).

However, I will say that the pressure with ABD to book so early (we booked in August 2015 for a trip in July 2016) because of concern of prices going up is definitely a dissatisfier.  We had to book before we fully knew summer camp schedules, school start dates, vacation schedules of work colleagues, etc.  And indeed, the trip has gone up $700 per person since we booked, so I'm glad we did book when we did, but I wasn't crazy about that pressure.

Next year, I do not want to book so early.  I prefer to book in January for a summer trip, and that will likely lead to us looking at other companies for our 2017 trip.


----------



## aggiedog

Do other companies not raise their prices as the trip fills?

We're actually looking at using Inside Japan for a graduation trip to Japan for my girls next summer.  They offer everything from deluxe guided tours to DIY "here's the train schedule" planning for you.  We lived there for 2 years, so won't do the full press luxury option, but help with tours and accommodations will be nice.


----------



## Bobo912

aggiedog said:


> Do other companies not raise their prices as the trip fills?
> 
> We're actually looking at using Inside Japan for a graduation trip to Japan for my girls next summer.  They offer everything from deluxe guided tours to DIY "here's the train schedule" planning for you.  We lived there for 2 years, so won't do the full press luxury option, but help with tours and accommodations will be nice.



I've traveled with several companies and do a lot of comparison shopping and I'm not aware of any other company that raises the prices as the trips fill up.


----------



## EllinK

for 2017. I just read a comment on the Tauck board -- one of the guest felt like it was a LOT of driving. How is the ABD trip? We may be traveling with a child who becomes car sick so this could be a deal breaker.

Anyone with experience on Tauck or ABD?


----------



## carpenta

I don't know of any too Bobo912........


----------



## aggiedog

Good to know, thanks!  Really, while I want to feel the pixie dust, I'm beginning to think it's more like Kool-aid.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

National Geographic doesn't raise their prices as the trips fill. The posted price is the price paid regardless of when you book.

One of the deciding factors for us with choosing to do South East Asia with National Geographic instead of Adventures by Disney is trip timing. All the National Geographic trips go between October and March, their "dry" season. All of the ABD trips but 2 go during monsoon season in South East Asia. Monsoon season runs April to September, when 95% of the ABD trips run. Here's a breakdown of how much rain 3 of the main locations that the trip goes to gets during monsoon season.

June
Ho Chi Minh - 12 inches of rain
Hanoi - 9.6 inches of rain
Siem Reap - 6.8 inches of rain

July
Ho Chi Minh - 11.6 inches of rain
Hanoi - 8 inches of rain
Siem Reap - 11.6 inches of rain

August
Ho Chi Minh - 10.8 inches of rain
Hanoi - 11.84 inches of rain
Siem Reap - 8 inches of rain

Whereas the rain amounts for February when we are going are as follows:

February
Ho Chi Minh - 0 inches of rain
Hanoi - 1.12 inches of rain
Siem Reap - 0.4 inches of rain

And for all of you who are interested in having me do a trip report, I will try to get one done when I get back. I'm working on creating a travel blog that will have the report in it. I will post a link to it when it's up.

For those of you who are interested in the trip, feel free to join us on the Feb 4, 2017 departure. We'd love to have you join us!


----------



## disneyphx

We did the ABD trip and loved it. Two of the days in Cape Town were a lot of driving. At Kapama, the game drives were twice a day for 2-3 hours. There were all flights between cities.
We are seriously considering Tauck Tanzania, but have not looked in detail at what each day is like.
We did ABD t


----------



## EllinK

Thanks for your response. Both trips sound great. I'm not worried about the game drives but more the driving from place to place. If you go on Tauck Tanzania, you'll have to report back!


----------



## RhiannonGator

I've been researching every company known to man (it feels like) for our 2017 trip, and ABD is the only one that raises prices based on more bookings. In fact, A&K (which I have not yet used) will REFUND you if they decide to put your departure date on sale. They also guarantee the trip at two guests. TWO!
The steady pricing, guaranteed trips, and smaller groups have been the main things to make me look outside ABD now that I'm comfortable with the idea of tour groups. Though I have not confirmed NatGeo Expedition sizes. Adventures and Journeys are 16, but they do not list for Exp. A&K is 18/24 depending on style.

What was a definitely Australia last wee, has morphed into maybe linking a Galapagos trip and Peru. I was getting frustrated finding an itinerary I wanted for Australia - each option seemed to have something to detract for me - though ABD I think came the closest. I couldn't justify why NatGeo was so much more expensive, A&K too long (can't get off work that long), and Tauck seemed a little.. meh. NatGeo private expedition was appealing and seemed very posh, but lost the main appeal of a tour which is having other people to socialize with.
So in my frustration I started looking at other destinations. Galapagos was very high on DH's list. Peru was high on mine but low on his. Then I found NatGeo does a Galapagos & Peru tour, which of course then he's like "Peru..? Isn't that where Machu Picchu is? That would be really cool." Apparently Machu Picchu only sounds appealing to him with "Galapagos" in front of it! It looks like NatGeo stopped packaging the two together on the site for 2017, but it was literally just their two separate trips linked together anyway with no cost savings. Seems every company I'm looking at sails Galapagos Sun-Sun and "starts" Peru on Sunday (the arrival day) so I could string any two together really. Besides NatGeo, I'm also looking at Ecoventura for Galapagos, and maybe A&K for Peru. ABD isn't completely off my radar for Peru, but the comments on here about the second day at Machu Picchu really was pushing me in the other direction.
All of this and I'll probably be on a different destination next week...

Also, I think someone else was mentioning how NatGeo includes the flights to/from the destination as trip time? It drives me nuts as well!! I get that all the companies include the arrival/departure days, but NatGeo is ridiculous. For Australia, Day 1, 2 and 3 are all flight days with arrival on Day 3. I saw some - I think it was SE Asia - where you fly out on the evening of let's say Day 13 and they count the rest of your flight home as "Day 14". 

Phew.. long post.. Sorry!


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

RhiannonGator said:


> Also, I think someone else was mentioning how NatGeo includes the flights to/from the destination as trip time? It drives me nuts as well!! I get that all the companies include the arrival/departure days, but NatGeo is ridiculous. For Australia, Day 1, 2 and 3 are all flight days with arrival on Day 3. I saw some - I think it was SE Asia - where you fly out on the evening of let's say Day 13 and they count the rest of your flight home as "Day 14".



Nat Geo isn't the only one who does this. In fact ABD is just as bad if not worse. I can think of at least 2 itineraries where Day 1 is arrival day with no activities planned beyond what you choose to do. Both South East Asia and South Africa itineraries with ABD do not officially start until Day 2. And the South East Asia trip with ABD essentially ends a day early as well as the last day is an "On your own" day. So essentially with ABD if you book the South East Asia trip, you are paying for 12 days but really only getting 10. At least with Nat Geo we get a welcome dinner on Day 1 and we are touring Angkor Archaeological Park with a guide on Day 13 before we head to the airport. 

Oh and the Nat Geo Expeditions take 8-16 guests unless it's a private expedition, then it's based on however many people you want to take with you.


----------



## sayhello

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> Nat Geo isn't the only one who does this. In fact ABD is just as bad if not worse. I can think of at least 2 itineraries where Day 1 is arrival day with no activities planned beyond what you choose to do. Both South East Asia and South Africa itineraries with ABD do not officially start until Day 2. And the South East Asia trip with ABD essentially ends a day early as well as the last day is an "On your own" day. So essentially with ABD if you book the South East Asia trip, you are paying for 12 days but really only getting 10. At least with Nat Geo we get a welcome dinner on Day 1 and we are touring Angkor Archaeological Park with a guide on Day 13 before we head to the airport.


In this particular case, I do not think ABD is just as bad or worse.  With them, not having anything on Day 1 is the exception and not the rule.  The majority of their trips have at least a Welcome Dinner on day one.  The Arizona/Utah trip stops at Montezuma's castle on the way to Sedona on day one.  But that trip has a single transfer from the Phoenix airport, so everyone leaves Phoenix and arrives at Sedona at the same time.    The truth is, they can't generally have an activity on Day one, because people are arriving all different times on that day.  If they listed what's now Day 2 as the first day of the trip, then some people would be flying in on that day.  It's just the nature of the beast.  But I do think NatGeo listing multiple travel days as part of the trip is a bit extreme.

I think part of the reason a few of the ABD itineraries are like that is because of the time of day when most flights arrive at the location.  If most flights land at 7pm, there's no point in setting up a Welcome Dinner before most people will have arrived.  I know when the Alaska trip started in Fairbanks, that was the situation.  Unless you arrived the day before, most flights got into Fairbanks in the evening.  So there was no Welcome Dinner, but a Welcome Breakfast instead.

Sayhello


----------



## disneyphx

Oops - iPad froze!
We did ABD first to see what we thought of game drives - most other tours seem to have more game time and less general sightseeing.
Thinking of another trip to Africa in 2017....so you might be there first!


----------



## acndis

Also, on the SE Asia trip, you have your hotel room until you leave the hotel so it is, in essence, an extra day.  We left the hotel @ 6 pm.  We still had breakfast on ABD and use of hotel facilities and our Park Pass to Angkor Wat was still valid.  So while there are no formal activities on that last day, I felt I more than got my money's worth!


----------



## disneyphx

Just checked back in to this thread after a few months - I love reading what everybody else has explored and investigated.
For us it is all about itinerary and dates. 
We did Thomson Family Adventures in Peru because it spent 2 nights near Machu Picchu, and the dates worked.(We were with a dad/daughter team and he got pretty bad altitude sickness. She could only tour that day because we agreed to be responsible for her - there were only 5 of us on the trip)
We did Tauck in Switzerland because we had already been to some of the places the ABD Italy/Switzerland visited. 
This year is back to ABD for Norway (only ones that go), then likely Tauck for Costa Rica (Itinerary/date combo).
Galapagos is the one that makes my head spin with choices - all boat; or a few days land in Ecuador and a few days boat in Galapagos; or land in Galapagos......and which boat! I need to check out Ecoventura


----------



## Woodview

A 14 day vacation   could end up being  a 17 day  vacation  if travel to & from  home is included   

 ( Remember there are time zones   to take into account )


----------



## EllinK

Yes, we also noticed that Disney devoted less time to game drives. How did it feel? Was it enough?


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

acndis said:


> Also, on the SE Asia trip, you have your hotel room until you leave the hotel so it is, in essence, an extra day.  We left the hotel @ 6 pm.  We still had breakfast on ABD and use of hotel facilities and our Park Pass to Angkor Wat was still valid.  So while there are no formal activities on that last day, I felt I more than got my money's worth!



That's not exclusive to ABD. On our Nat Geo South East Asia trip we have our hotel until around the same time on our departure day.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

disneyphx said:


> Just checked back in to this thread after a few months - I love reading what everybody else has explored and investigated.
> For us it is all about itinerary and dates.
> We did Thomson Family Adventures in Peru because it spent 2 nights near Machu Picchu, and the dates worked.(We were with a dad/daughter team and he got pretty bad altitude sickness. She could only tour that day because we agreed to be responsible for her - there were only 5 of us on the trip)
> We did Tauck in Switzerland because we had already been to some of the places the ABD Italy/Switzerland visited.
> This year is back to ABD for Norway (only ones that go), then likely Tauck for Costa Rica (Itinerary/date combo).
> Galapagos is the one that makes my head spin with choices - all boat; or a few days land in Ecuador and a few days boat in Galapagos; or land in Galapagos......and which boat! I need to check out Ecoventura



I agree. We went with Nat Geo because the dates worked for us. ABD dropped their adult only excursion for South East Asia and I have no desire to travel there during monsoon season (and while you could say the same about travelling to Florida in hurricane season, hurricanes don't always make landfall nor in the same area whereas monsoons are an annual occurrence). Also the trip dates we chose lead into a holiday Monday so it seemed to make sense as it gives us an extra day off to readjust to the time change upon our return. Plus the itinerary has more of what we want to do in it.


----------



## Calfan

NatGeo limits its Family Adventures to 25 people, in case anyone is considering those trips.  We haven't taken one but are likely to do their Ireland Family Vacation within the next few years.


----------



## carpenta

We did the Nat. Geo Family adventure to Yellowstone and it was 24 people. A perfect size and mix of adults and kids.


----------



## acndis

Bobo912 said:


> Three years ago I took the itinerary from the ABD Montana/Alberta trip and the Tauck Bridges Canadian Rockies trip and combined them and did the trip on my own.  Started in Montana (which isn't included in the Tauck trip), then to Banff (which is in both ABD and Tauck) and then to Jasper (which isn't included in the ABD) and then Lake Louise (which is included in both).  Did all of their activites plus some more of our own choosing.  We stayed in the park at GNP and at the Fairmont hotels in Banff, Jasper and Lake Louise and had rooms with gorgeous views.  And even with the extended itinerary and luxury hotels, it was about half the cost of the ABD trip.  Even with no guides, my son and I both agree this was one of the best vacations we've had - probably only topped by the Nat Geo trip to the Galapagos.  Of course, somebody has to drive, (for us, that would be me), and the distances are long, but there are lots of opportunities for stops along the way and there is almost no traffic.  Just watch out for the occasional moose or bear.


Bobo,

We have been inspired by you and are thinking of doing this trip on our own, too!  I have the following questions:

1.  How did you get from Montana to Canada (drive, fly, bus?)
2.  Did you drive from place to place in Canada?
3.  Were most of the activities available through the Fairmont or did you book on your own?

Thanks!  This is a great idea for a trip we have really wanted to take but don't want to spend close to $10,000 for the ABD/Tauck versions.  Since DS will be 9 when we do it, we feel more confident.  We call these trips "Adventures by Mom and Dad."


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015




----------



## Bobo912

acndis said:


> Bobo,
> 
> We have been inspired by you and are thinking of doing this trip on our own, too!  I have the following questions:
> 
> 1.  How did you get from Montana to Canada (drive, fly, bus?)
> 2.  Did you drive from place to place in Canada?
> 3.  Were most of the activities available through the Fairmont or did you book on your own?
> 
> Thanks!  This is a great idea for a trip we have really wanted to take but don't want to spend close to $10,000 for the ABD/Tauck versions.  Since DS will be 9 when we do it, we feel more confident.  We call these trips "Adventures by Mom and Dad."



I had originally planned to fly into Calgary, but I was booking our flight with miles and between the extra taxes I had to pay flying into Canada and the higher rental car rates I was quoted at that time, I decided to fly into Glacier Park International Airport in Kallispell.  I really like the airport.  It is recently remodeled, small and easy to navigate.  It turned out to be a good plan, because just before we arrived, there was a big flood in Calgary, and I even changed our driving route from GNP to Banff so that we totally bypassed Calgary.  We spent a few days in GNP, then drove to Banff and stayed there for a few day, then up to Jasper, then south to Lake Louise and finally back to Montana, where we spent the night in Whitefish, which is a very nice little town near the airport, before flying back home.  We covered a lot of distance, but the driving was easy.  There is practically no traffic and the scenery is beautiful.  The long drives were always broken up by having some activity planned along the way or making spur of the moment stops whenever we saw something interesting, which was often.  And it's not uncommon to see moose, bear, Rocky Mountain Sheep, etc. along the way.  You could easily book your activities at the Fairmont, but I had all of ours planned out beforehand and booked them myself online and in most cases the vendors came to the hotels and picked us up.  If you don't want the long drive from GNP to Banff, flying from Kallispell to Calgary would be a good alternative and then renting a car there.


----------



## carpenta

I agree with you Bobo that Kallispell is a great little airport.


----------



## Woodview

Here is what we are doing in late  August.

  Flying from Cork  to London Heathrow    then  to  Vancouver.

   Next day    Pick up  pre paid  Hired  Car  & drive via ferry to Victoria  , stay with relations , then back to  Vancouver

then  Whistler ,   Lytton , Hope,  Osyoos , Castlegar,

 Crossover to USA     to Newport  . stay with relations ,  

then to  Spokane,   Grand Coulee Dam , Levenworth,   , Darrington ,  

Back into Canada      via    Abbotford   to   Vancouver Airport .

..........................

 Just the 2 of us  & me doing the Driving .

   First night  booked  & the nights in Victoria are booked.

  We take to the road  & try for  motels when we wish to stop.for the night.

 Yes I have looked up motels  & picked the ones we would  like to stay in . 

   Yes we do have 20 days to do the trip .& we have done most of it before.

   It is one way of seeing the sights at  our pace  & at our price range


----------



## acndis

That sounds fabulous!  I have already booked the Fairmont Lake Louise and Banff. We decided to do Jasper (like Tauck) but the rates have not been released for July 2017 at that resort. The other two seem to fill completely so I went ahead and reserved. 

We will fly into Calgary. This trip is 1.5 years away but we are so excited!  Thanks for the great advice on this board. 

Anyone thinking of doing the Glamping trip on their own?  We are saving Montana to consider that one. It sounds pretty cool!


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

nordkin said:


> I am aware of this and my money is going to other companies as a result.



Ours is too. We've booked South East Asia with National Geographic Adventures. I told my Disney TA not to worry about ABD trips for next year cause we booked Nat Geo and her response to me was to let her know how the Nat Geo trip was.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

sayhello said:


> That's interesting.  The dates for the China ABD for September and October are listed as Adults Only in the brochure, but not on the website.  I wonder if it's a mistake or if they changed them.  That would really suck if they stopped doing Adult Only trips for China, as it's very high on my list for 2017, but I'm not sure if I want to do it non-Adults Only.
> 
> Sayhello



I think you'll find that the website is the more accurate of the two. Once the book has gone to print, they can't change it but they can change the information on the website easily enough. 

I was looking at the Australian trip last night and my mom said that if they had had an adult's only trip we would consider it for the future but they don't so if we do Australia then we'll be doing it with Nat Geo. The Private Expedition to Australia with Nat Geo stays at a hotel at Uluru (Ayers Rock) that has an age limit on it. They only allow children 10 and over to stay there so no way Disney would ever stay at this resort which is quite an amazing hotel. That's one of the things that draws me to this particular trip. Waking up and looking out at Ayers Rock from my window.


----------



## sayhello

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> I think you'll find that the website is the more accurate of the two. Once the book has gone to print, they can't change it but they can change the information on the website easily enough.
> 
> I was looking at the Australian trip last night and my mom said that if they had had an adult's only trip we would consider it for the future but they don't so if we do Australia then we'll be doing it with Nat Geo. The Private Expedition to Australia with Nat Geo stays at a hotel at Uluru (Ayers Rock) that has an age limit on it. They only allow children 10 and over to stay there so no way Disney would ever stay at this resort which is quite an amazing hotel. That's one of the things that draws me to this particular trip. Waking up and looking out at Ayers Rock from my window.


I realize that about the brochure, but I've also noticed a lot of errors on the website, especially after they've made changes like they did last week.

And there's no way I could or would take a Private Expedition with NatGeo.  I travel solo, and a) I'm sure it would be way out of my price range & b) I *like* having travel companions like you do on group trips.  That's one of the things I love about doing ABDs.

Sayhello


----------



## RhiannonGator

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> I was looking at the Australian trip last night and my mom said that if they had had an adult's only trip we would consider it for the future but they don't so if we do Australia then we'll be doing it with Nat Geo. The Private Expedition to Australia with Nat Geo stays at a hotel at Uluru (Ayers Rock) that has an age limit on it. They only allow children 10 and over to stay there so no way Disney would ever stay at this resort which is quite an amazing hotel. That's one of the things that draws me to this particular trip. Waking up and looking out at Ayers Rock from my window.



I was looking at the same Private Expedition with NatGeo. It looked interesting (amazing hotels!) and the itinerary appealed to me. But, like sayhello, I have found I like having the other travel companions. I would actually say my husband and I _need_ the other travel companions


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

RhiannonGator said:


> I was looking at the same Private Expedition with NatGeo. It looked interesting (amazing hotels!) and the itinerary appealed to me. But, like sayhello, I have found I like having the other travel companions. I would actually say my husband and I _need_ the other travel companions



See my mom and I are the exact opposite actually. We like to travel as just the two of us and doing the group tour to Southern California with ABD was a huge step out of our comfort zone. We had 24 people on the trip and even that felt too big for us. We have about the same number currently booked on our Central Europe trip in the fall. We've actually done a few tours at WDW where it was just us. I did Mickey's Magical Milestones tour with my girlfriend and we were the only ones on the tour and my mom and I did Wild by Design at AK and it was just the two of us. It was great because we could go as fast or as slow as we wanted, we didn't have to wait on others or feel like we were holding others up. I ended up taking most of the photos on our BSM ABD because my mom is not very fast when it comes to taking photos and she doesn't want to make people upset because she's holding the group up so she can take pictures. This is why I think the smaller groups on Nat Geo and the private expeditions will be good for us.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> See my mom and I are the exact opposite actually. We like to travel as just the two of us and doing the group tour to Southern California with ABD was a huge step out of our comfort zone. We had 24 people on the trip and even that felt too big for us. We have about the same number currently booked on our Central Europe trip in the fall. We've actually done a few tours at WDW where it was just us. I did Mickey's Magical Milestones tour with my girlfriend and we were the only ones on the tour and my mom and I did Wild by Design at AK and it was just the two of us. It was great because we could go as fast or as slow as we wanted, we didn't have to wait on others or feel like we were holding others up. I ended up taking most of the photos on our BSM ABD because my mom is not very fast when it comes to taking photos and she doesn't want to make people upset because she's holding the group up so she can take pictures. This is why I think the smaller groups on Nat Geo and the private expeditions will be good for us.



I'm somewhere between the two.  The only reason we went back to ABD was so my daughter could be in the company of others during our travels.  I REALLY enjoy traveling on our own (just me and my kids) because we are on our own schedule and can linger where we want and speed through other things that don't appeal to us that much.

I have checked with ABD about the ages and gender of the teens on our trip to China and I am a bit worried since there is a large number of girls in the 12 - 15 year age range.  We had a bit of girl drama on our Australia trip last summer and while it by no means took away from our AMAZING trip it did make things uncomfortable and awkward (especially towards the end of the trip).  

I am almost certain that for our African safari (2017) we will go on our own.  ABD doesn't do a lot of the stuff we want to do (Victoria's Falls is one thing missing for us) and we want to stay at a private reserve that borders Kruger (Kapama is a 134 sq. kilometer private reserve that doesn't border any National Park).  We also plan on visiting 2 different parks: one in South Africa (likely Sabi Sands which borders or Londolozi which both border Kruger) and one in either Zambia or Zimbabwe (depending on where we want to see Victoria's Falls from).  It's also highly likely we will visit Tanzania to witness the great migration (since we are planning on June we will see the Northern migration) which is a huge 'bucket list' item of mine.  

We will also have to do another ABD since I have a credit on file with them that they refuse to apply to our China Trip .  Or lose our $600.00 deposit.  I'm more than a bit irked at this since I hate people keeping my money hostage.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I'm somewhere between the two.  The only reason we went back to ABD was so my daughter could be in the company of others during our travels.  I REALLY enjoy traveling on our own (just me and my kids) because we are on our own schedule and can linger where we want and speed through other things that don't appeal to us that much.
> 
> I have checked with ABD about the ages and gender of the teens on our trip to China and I am a bit worried since there is a large number of girls in the 12 - 15 year age range.  We had a bit of girl drama on our Australia trip last summer and while it by no means took away from our AMAZING trip it did make things uncomfortable and awkward (especially towards the end of the trip).
> 
> I am almost certain that for our African safari (2017) we will go on our own.  ABD doesn't do a lot of the stuff we want to do (Victoria's Falls is one thing missing for us) and we want to stay at a private reserve that borders Kruger (Kapama is a 134 sq. kilometer private reserve that doesn't border any National Park).  We also plan on visiting 2 different parks: one in South Africa (likely Sabi Sands which borders or Londolozi which both border Kruger) and one in either Zambia or Zimbabwe (depending on where we want to see Victoria's Falls from).  It's also highly likely we will visit Tanzania to witness the great migration (since we are planning on June we will see the Northern migration) which is a huge 'bucket list' item of mine.
> 
> We will also have to do another ABD since I have a credit on file with them that they refuse to apply to our China Trip .  Or lose our $600.00 deposit.  I'm more than a bit irked at this since I hate people keeping my money hostage.



You should get in touch with National Geographic Expeditions. They can create an itinerary in Southern Africa that hits all the things you want to do and will create it for however many people you want. I know on their Private Expedition to South Africa, you are staying at 2 National Geographic Lodges, one of which is the Sabi Sands Earth Lodge located in the Sabi Sands Private Game Reserve which borders Kruger.

I think after the trip to Central Europe, we will pretty much be travelling with Nat Geo, unless ABD can come up with a trip that really appeals to us and has an adult's only departure. We have about 7 or 8 Nat Geo trips that we're looking at doing after our S.E. Asia trip next year. I know if they offered an adult's only trip to Australia that we'd do that one with ABD as the itinerary looks really good but they don't and we don't want to travel with kids.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> You should get in touch with National Geographic Expeditions. They can create an itinerary in Southern Africa that hits all the things you want to do and will create it for however many people you want. I know on their Private Expedition to South Africa, you are staying at 2 National Geographic Lodges, one of which is the Sabi Sands Earth Lodge located in the Sabi Sands Private Game Reserve which borders Kruger.
> 
> I think after the trip to Central Europe, we will pretty much be travelling with Nat Geo, unless ABD can come up with a trip that really appeals to us and has an adult's only departure. We have about 7 or 8 Nat Geo trips that we're looking at doing after our S.E. Asia trip next year. I know if they offered an adult's only trip to Australia that we'd do that one with ABD as the itinerary looks really good but they don't and we don't want to travel with kids.



Oh my goodness Sabi Sands Earth Lodge looks heavenly.  I have looked at Nat. Geo. private African safaris but I am still researching times of the year / migration patterns (Tanzania), geography (for ease of internal air transfers because I want to visit 2 or 3 countries) and different parks.  I have also been corresponding with 2 amazing private safari operators that have been very helpful.  Not ruling out Nat. Geo at this point but it doesn't seem likely for our African trip.

I can't wait to hear all about your S.E. Asia trip.  It is one we are looking for 2017 - we are completely open to companies other than ABD.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> Oh my goodness Sabi Sands Earth Lodge looks heavenly.  I have looked at Nat. Geo. private African safaris but I am still researching times of the year / migration patterns (Tanzania), geography (for ease of internal air transfers because I want to visit 2 or 3 countries) and different parks.  I have also been corresponding with 2 amazing private safari operators that have been very helpful.  Not ruling out Nat. Geo at this point but it doesn't seem likely for our African trip.
> 
> I can't wait to hear all about your S.E. Asia trip.  It is one we are looking for 2017 - we are completely open to companies other than ABD.



Nat Geo will work with you even if you want to visit 5 different countries. Also their private trips go when you want to go. This is the little blurb on their website.

Custom trips: What's your dream trip? We can work with you to create an itinerary tailored specifically to your needs and interests. Call our reservation specialists at 1-888-732-2379 or fill out our custom trip form to get started. - See more at: http://www.nationalgeographicexpeditions.com/triptypes/privateexpeditions#sthash.OoOaze5d.dpuf

Yeah, about the S.E. Asia trip report, LOL. I'm actually working on getting a blog page up so that I have some place to post since so many people want to hear about our trip and I don't know if I'll be able to post an actual trip report here on the ABD board of Disboards since it's not an ABD trip. I'm working on getting my Southern California trip up on the site and getting the site the way I want it to look. I'm also going to be posting about my Central Europe trip in the fall.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

Personally I think some of it (if not a large part of it) has to do with the lack of advertising for ABD. I only ever learned about ABD because I was on message boards etc when ABD was first announced over 10 years ago. I never see any advertising for it unless I'm actually at Disney. Also, if it is advertised it's not advertised outside of the US, unless again it's a Disney property (DCL included). Also, I have no incentive to rebook with ABD. Yes I've done one ABD already but that doesn't get me the same "perks" as the other guests because I'm not American, I'm Canadian so I don't get access to the discounts or anything else. And don't tell me I don't get the discounts etc because of Canadian lottery laws. That's a stupid answer and totally inaccurate. If that was the case then I wouldn't be able to get discounts from National Geographic, which is also a US company or buy powerball tickets. The fact of the matter is Disney has chosen to keep ABD insular within the US. I also don't want to hear about how difficult it is for Disney to send stuff across the boarder because again, this is BS. I got my Disneyland package stuff shipped to my office without issue and I've had Disney merchandising send me a replacement item without issue. Disney has chosen to exclude those who are not American which means they are missing out on a lot of people who might travel with them but don't because ABD is not known up here.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

acndis said:


> Nat Geo has a great Scotland itinerary!  We were going do that one but have decided to do ABD Australia first.



We love the look of the Nat Geo Adventure trip to Scotland. It's on our must do list but we are doing SE Asia next year and looking at Ireland for 2018, both with Nat Geo.


----------



## sayhello

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> We love the look of the Nat Geo Adventure trip to Scotland. It's on our must do list but we are doing SE Asia next year and looking at Ireland for 2018, both with Nat Geo.


That does look like a great hiking itinerary.  But it does seem to lack some of the more cultural aspects of the ABD, like the scone making and the tapestry lessons and the talk at Loch Ness. Those were definitely highlights for me.  If the ABD still had the trip to the Isle of Lewis, there'd really be no comparison.  I guess it just depends on what you're looking for in a vacation, but this is a bit too much hiking and not enough cultural exploration for me.

Sayhello


----------



## Rapunzellover

I feel that same way about NatGeo, SayHello. For me, Scotland will be ABD or AbercrombieandKent.


----------



## acndis

sayhello said:


> That does look like a great hiking itinerary.  But it does seem to lack some of the more cultural aspects of the ABD, like the scone making and the tapestry lessons and the talk at Loch Ness. Those were definitely highlights for me.  If the ABD still had the trip to the Isle of Lewis, there'd really be no comparison.  I guess it just depends on what you're looking for in a vacation, but this is a bit too much hiking and not enough cultural exploration for me.
> 
> Sayhello


I really liked the family itinerary to Scotland!  That's the one I was referencing but I just realized that won't work for either of you because you are looking for Adults Only--sorry!  (I also LOVE the family trip to JAPAN!)

The cultural activities were the one aspect of the itinerary that made me not as excited about the Scotland ABD (we already did scone making in Ireland and the tapestry was not a very exciting prospect for my 8 year old).  That's one area that I wish ABD would 'spice up' in all the itineraries.  It seems there's always a farm day and a craft, etc.  

Now, those activities were AWESOME in SE Asia because they were so different (Rice Farm, Mask Painting & Lanterns) but I would opt for something more physical every time.  On the Europe itineraries they start to all look the same to me.  That's why we are opting for the more active ABDs in the future.

Once again, different strokes!  That's what makes these boards so fun and informative.


----------



## sayhello

acndis said:


> I really liked the family itinerary to Scotland!  That's the one I was referencing but I just realized that won't work for either of you because you are looking for Adults Only--sorry!  (I also LOVE the family trip to JAPAN!)
> 
> The cultural activities were the one aspect of the itinerary that made me not as excited about the Scotland ABD (we already did scone making in Ireland and the tapestry was not a very exciting prospect for my 8 year old).  That's one area that I wish ABD would 'spice up' in all the itineraries.  It seems there's always a farm day and a craft, etc.
> 
> Now, those activities were AWESOME in SE Asia because they were so different (Rice Farm, Mask Painting & Lanterns) but I would opt for something more physical every time.  On the Europe itineraries they start to all look the same to me.  That's why we are opting for the more active ABDs in the future.
> 
> Once again, different strokes!  That's what makes these boards so fun and informative.


I agree, it all depends on what you're looking for.  But the NatGeo Scotland family trip is no cheaper than the opening day price for the Scotland ABD, and is the same length, since day 1 & 2 of the NatGeo trip is travel time to Edinburgh.  But if you like the itinerary better, I agree, it's the way for you to go!

Sayhello


----------



## TXTransplant

So, I had to buy my son some scouting/camping gear, and I purchased from REI. Now I'm on their mailing list, and I just got an email about their organized European adventures. Turns out they offer trips all over the world. Most focus on hiking and cycling, but they also have a Scotland family adventure. The cost is cheaper than ABD, and the itinerary looks pretty good. They don't specify the hotels, though, so that might be a wild card. But it's definitely another option to look into.

Their trips are fully refundable up to 91 days before departure and require a $400 deposit per person. Kids get a $400 discount and the single supplement for the Scotland family adventure is only $899 (the single supplement seems to vary a lot depending on the specific trip).

Edited to add that the website specifically says they will give you confirmation on whether or not the trip has enough participants before you buy airfare. Doesn't say how many days in advance of the trip, though.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

TXTransplant said:


> So, I had to buy my son some scouting/camping gear, and I purchased from REI. Now I'm on their mailing list, and I just got an email about their organized European adventures. Turns out they offer trips all over the world. Most focus on hiking and cycling, but they also have a Scotland family adventure. The cost is cheaper than ABD, and the itinerary looks pretty good. They don't specify the hotels, though, so that might be a wild card. But it's definitely another option to look into.
> 
> Their trips are fully refundable up to 91 days before departure and require a $400 deposit per person. Kids get a $400 discount and the single supplement for the Scotland family adventure is only $899 (the single supplement seems to vary a lot depending on the specific trip).
> 
> Edited to add that the website specifically says they will give you confirmation on whether or not the trip has enough participants before you buy airfare. Doesn't say how many days in advance of the trip, though.



Thank you for that info!  I see a trip to Peru in December that would be PERFECT for us.  I'm going to call first thing Monday morning.

If you look carefully they mention a few of the hotels in the descriptions, but usually just one (they stay at the Inkaterra Machu Pichu for one night but the rest aren't mentioned).  I'm going to keep my fingers crossed that this works out for us.  We would be home just in time for Christmas (Dec. 24th)!


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

Sorry, wrong thread


----------



## kaseyC

Just got a brochure from  "Off the Beaten Path".  Never heard of them before but they have some very nice itineraries in the Western US.   Small group size of 4-16.  They offer some family departures.  I think I may look into their "Great American West" tour it covers the Black Hills to Yellowstone.  Starts in Rapid City, SD and ends in Bozeman, MT.   Prices pretty similar to TB and ABD. 

http://www.offthebeatenpath.com/tri...at-american-west/pricing-and-terms/?ggjid=136


----------



## Calfan

The previous post reminded me that I did a bit of looking into Trafalgar yesterday.  I had received a brochure from a travel agent we've used in the past, and it included a couple of Trafalgar trips.  The descriptions sounded pretty good until I emailed Trafalgar to find out the maximum number of guests permitted on their family trips, and the answer came back as 49!


----------



## kaseyC

Calfan said:


> The previous post reminded me that I did a bit of looking into Trafalgar yesterday.  I had received a brochure from a travel agent we've used in the past, and it included a couple of Trafalgar trips.  The descriptions sounded pretty good until I emailed Trafalgar to find out the maximum number of guests permitted on their family trips, and the answer came back as 49!



Wow!!


----------



## carpenta

49? Now that would be really tight on any bus.


----------



## Ava

kaseyC said:


> Just got a brochure from  "Off the Beaten Path".  Never heard of them before but they have some very nice itineraries in the Western US.   Small group size of 4-16.  They offer some family departures.  I think I may look into their "Great American West" tour it covers the Black Hills to Yellowstone.  Starts in Rapid City, SD and ends in Bozeman, MT.   Prices pretty similar to TB and ABD.
> 
> http://www.offthebeatenpath.com/tri...at-american-west/pricing-and-terms/?ggjid=136


Thank you for the link! This looks like an interesting company, and I like the small group size. I don't really consider myself a "group travel" type of person, but I'm also not particularly outdoorsy so I don't feel comfortable planning those types of trips myself.


----------



## Jess_S

Hi everyone!  This is my first time posting in the ABD forums, though I'm a regular poster in the DLC and WDW forums. 

After reading ABD reviews here, I'm giving serious thought to giving it a try.  I am generally not one for group travel.  I have explored Europe, America and Canada on my own and like the independence and lack of schedule.  Even on a cruise, I'm an on-my-own walking tour or grab-a-taxi traveler. 

But I'm now looking at the South Africa and Galapagos trips offered by ABD, which seem wonderful and travel to places I wouldn't feel as comfortable traveling to on my own.  When I looked into other tour companies that visit these destinations and are geared towards families, National Geographic Expeditions was the only other company that caught my eye.  I'm curious about whether anyone can compare the two companies.  Specific concerns are quality of guides, quality of food and whether someone who is used to independent travel would enjoy the trip.  The prices for both are pretty darn expensive, so that wouldn't really be a factor.

(Having looked through this thread now that my post was merged, it looks to me like Nat Geo might be a better choice because of group size.  Is the 40 person group on ABD standard on all tours now?)


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

Jess_S said:


> Hi everyone!  This is my first time posting in the ABD forums, though I'm a regular poster in the DLC and WDW forums.
> 
> After reading ABD reviews here, I'm giving serious thought to giving it a try.  I am generally not one for group travel.  I have explored Europe, America and Canada on my own and like the independence and lack of schedule.  Even on a cruise, I'm an on-my-own walking tour or grab-a-taxi traveler.
> 
> But I'm now looking at the South Africa and Galapagos trips offered by ABD, which seem wonderful and travel to places I wouldn't feel as comfortable traveling to on my own.  When I looked into other tour companies that visit these destinations and are geared towards families, National Geographic Expeditions was the only other company that caught my eye.  I'm curious about whether anyone can compare the two companies.  Specific concerns are quality of guides, quality of food and whether someone who is used to independent travel would enjoy the trip.  The prices for both are pretty darn expensive, so that wouldn't really be a factor.



I have yet to take my first Nat Geo Adventure (SE Asia in February) but I can tell you I already much prefer the experience with Nat Geo than I do with ABD. Nat Geo has been very upfront and open about things like minimum numbers required for a trip to be a guaranteed departure. I'm not sure of the number for the family trips but for mine it's 8 people. Also, shortly after booking I got emailed from my trip coordinator and received a link to my pre-trip website that has all the required information and paperwork on it. My trip coordinator is there to answer any and all questions I have about the trip and she is a dedicated trip coordinator so all questions, requests etc go through her. 

With ABD, you are dealing with whoever answers the phone/email so it's never the same person twice. They don't tell you exactly what will make a trip a guaranteed departure and they are not very forthcoming with information. I've heard from my TA once about something ABD informed her of (one of our hotels has changed). 

Also, I don't know where you are from but ABD is not very friendly to non-Americans. We don't have access to the same things as American guests are. We can't join Adventure Insiders after our first trip and we don't have access to the same discounts as Americans, whereas with Nat Geo we have access to all the same discounts as anyone else who books with them as a repeat guest.

Again, this is just my experience, I'm sure others will offer theirs.


----------



## Bobo912

Jess_S said:


> Hi everyone!  This is my first time posting in the ABD forums, though I'm a regular poster in the DLC and WDW forums.
> 
> After reading ABD reviews here, I'm giving serious thought to giving it a try.  I am generally not one for group travel.  I have explored Europe, America and Canada on my own and like the independence and lack of schedule.  Even on a cruise, I'm an on-my-own walking tour or grab-a-taxi traveler.
> 
> But I'm now looking at the South Africa and Galapagos trips offered by ABD, which seem wonderful and travel to places I wouldn't feel as comfortable traveling to on my own.  When I looked into other tour companies that visit these destinations and are geared towards families, National Geographic Expeditions was the only other company that caught my eye.  I'm curious about whether anyone can compare the two companies.  Specific concerns are quality of guides, quality of food and whether someone who is used to independent travel would enjoy the trip.  The prices for both are pretty darn expensive, so that wouldn't really be a factor.
> 
> (Having looked through this thread now that my post was merged, it looks to me like Nat Geo might be a better choice because of group size.  Is the 40 person group on ABD standard on all tours now?)



I have been on 5 ABDs (Costa Rica, Alaska, Arizona/Utah, Peru, Ireland) and I have been on the Lindbald/Nat Geo Galapagos trip.  I've also been on 2 Tauck Bridges trip.  All of the trips were good to varying degrees, but the Nat Geo trip was by far the best.  Booking and pre-trip experience were excellent.  On some departures they offer free airfare from Miami, which we took advantage of.  There was a Nat Geo rep at the gate, making sure all of the guests had arrived at the correct gate and providing information.  I'm sure she only expected to be there for a short time, but our flight was delayed due to mechanical issues for around 5 hours and she stayed there the entire time and kept us updated on the situation and made sure we all got vouchers from the airline for dinner.  Even though we arrived much later than expected (around 3:00AM) there were 2 cheerful Nat Geo reps at the Guayquil airport waiting for us when we arrived to whisk us away to our hotel.  The cruise director and naturalists were fantastic.  We were accompanied by a National Geographic videographer who documented our voyage and we were presented with a DVD at the end of the trip.  Because of Sven Lindblad's support of conservation efforts in the Galapagos, the Lindblad/Nat Geo ships are allowed to visit some areas where others aren't allowed to go.  For the Galapagos trip, the ship holds 96 and when we left the ship we split into groups of 12 to 16 people.  Food was great.  Service by the ships crew was wonderful.  Everybody was great with the kids.  When we took the trip, a local family from the Galapagos were guests on the ship.  Nat Geo was doing this because most of the locals never get the chance to see any island except the one where they live.  It was a wonderful experience for everyone, but especially the kids, to get to know this family.  I hope they are still doing this.  If you want to see the Galapagos, you don't have the option of seeing it on your own, but since your a seasoned cruiser, maybe this much smaller ship with many fewer guests will not be too much of an adjustment.  I can't say enough good things about this trip - it was just perfect.  If there weren't so many wonderful places that I haven't been yet, I would do this trip again in a heartbeat.  I often consider doing it again anyway...maybe someday.  I really regretted my decision to go to Peru with ABD instead of Nat Geo.  We are seriously considering Japan with them next year.

There are sometimes more than 40 guests on ABDs, but if you are lucky it can be a smaller group.  The largest group I have personally experienced was 44, but I believe some groups have been larger. 

I wish I could comment on South Africa, but unfortunately, I haven't been there yet.


----------



## Jess_S

Thanks Bobo and Cinderellas Slipper.  It's really helpful to get some detailed feedback on Nat Geo.  I've tried lots of Google searches for reviews and they only comments I find are that "there are cheaper ways to take a safari"  -- not particularly helpful when you're trying to find out if the experience is worth the slight price premium.


----------



## Hlee

Bobo912 said:


> I have been on 5 ABDs (Costa Rica, Alaska, Arizona/Utah, Peru, Ireland) and I have been on the Lindbald/Nat Geo Galapagos trip.  I've also been on 2 Tauck Bridges trip.  All of the trips were good to varying degrees, but the Nat Geo trip was by far the best.  Booking and pre-trip experience were excellent.  On some departures they offer free airfare from Miami, which we took advantage of.  There was a Nat Geo rep at the gate, making sure all of the guests had arrived at the correct gate and providing information.  I'm sure she only expected to be there for a short time, but our flight was delayed due to mechanical issues for around 5 hours and she stayed there the entire time and kept us updated on the situation and made sure we all got vouchers from the airline for dinner.  Even though we arrived much later than expected (around 3:00AM) there were 2 cheerful Nat Geo reps at the Guayquil airport waiting for us when we arrived to whisk us away to our hotel.  The cruise director and naturalists were fantastic.  We were accompanied by a National Geographic videographer who documented our voyage and we were presented with a DVD at the end of the trip.  Because of Sven Lindblad's support of conservation efforts in the Galapagos, the Lindblad/Nat Geo ships are allowed to visit some areas where others aren't allowed to go.  For the Galapagos trip, the ship holds 96 and when we left the ship we split into groups of 12 to 16 people.  Food was great.  Service by the ships crew was wonderful.  Everybody was great with the kids.  When we took the trip, a local family from the Galapagos were guests on the ship.  Nat Geo was doing this because most of the locals never get the chance to see any island except the one where they live.  It was a wonderful experience for everyone, but especially the kids, to get to know this family.  I hope they are still doing this.  If you want to see the Galapagos, you don't have the option of seeing it on your own, but since your a seasoned cruiser, maybe this much smaller ship with many fewer guests will not be too much of an adjustment.  I can't say enough good things about this trip - it was just perfect.  If there weren't so many wonderful places that I haven't been yet, I would do this trip again in a heartbeat.  I often consider doing it again anyway...maybe someday.  I really regretted my decision to go to Peru with ABD instead of Nat Geo.  We are seriously considering Japan with them next year.
> 
> There are sometimes more than 40 guests on ABDs, but if you are lucky it can be a smaller group.  The largest group I have personally experienced was 44, but I believe some groups have been larger.
> 
> I wish I could comment on South Africa, but unfortunately, I haven't been there yet.



How old are your children? Were there any on your trip???


----------



## Bobo912

Hlee said:


> How old are your children? Were there any on your trip???



I only have one and he was 4 months shy of his 11th birthday at the time.  I think I posted this info on this thread already, but I'll repeat myself.    There were 94 guests and 14 of them were children, with most of them being 10-13, with maybe one younger and a couple of older teenagers.


----------



## Hlee

Bobo912 said:


> I only have one and he was 4 months shy of his 11th birthday at the time.  I think I posted this info on this thread already, but I'll repeat myself.    There were 94 guests and 14 of them were children, with most of them being 10-13, with maybe one younger and a couple of older teenagers.


Sorry! Didn't mean to make you repeat yourself. Thread  is 15 pages long....Thanks for the great info


----------



## aggiedog

Has anyone tried a Road Scholars family trip?


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

We are booked with Tauck Bridges for the December 24th South Africa trip.  Dd decided she wanted to be with others her own age (they currently have 2 boys: 14 and 16 and 2 girls: 11 and 14; dd will be 14), plus I really, really like the itinerary.  I booked airfare this morning (Ethiopian Air business class going there with a connection in Addis Ababa - oy.  Coming home we are S. African Airways and Air Canada with a connection in Heathrow); we are going to spend 2 days in the malaria-free Marakele NP  (Marataba Safari Lodge) on safari before the trip and head to Cape Town on December 23rd.

I am so excited!  A bit concerned about 1 guide and 34 travelers, but hopefully it will work out!

As an FYI the ABD December S. Africa trip is already sold out .  But I prefer this itinerary as Ngala camp where TB stays was high on my list if we went on our own (I didn't want to stay at Kapama). As an added bonus this was over $1,000 less expensive.

Please someone tell me they have flown Ethiopian Airlines and it was okay.  I am concerned about the age of some of their planes.  I NEED a lie flat bed for a 12 hour flight!  I am going to keep working on trying to get a SAA flight through London but this is what we have for now.


----------



## DCPhotoGal

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> Please someone tell me they have flown Ethiopian Airlines and it was okay.  I am concerned about the age of some of their planes.  I NEED a lie flat bed for a 12 hour flight!  I am going to keep working on trying to get a SAA flight through London but this is what we have for now.



We did an unguided South Africa trip planned by South Africa Airlines Vacations several years ago.  We flew direct from IAD to Capetown on SAA.  Even though it is listed as a direct flight, there was a stop in Northern Africa for refueling.  And I remember since it was a yellow fever country, there was some discussion as to whether SA would require the yellow fever vaccine because of the stop.


----------



## emilymad

carpenta said:


> I have traveled with Tauck before and it's true. Most often when you book your second + trip they offer a free hotel room pre or post trip. You can book airfare through them and it is usually a set price. I have done that Italy (Rome, Florence, Venice) Bridges with Tauck so if you have any questions feel free to ask.



Would you recommend this trip?  Did you feel that 1 guide was enough?  We are researching this trip and ABD but the TB itinerary seems a lot better.


----------



## tink1970

We did TB last Christmas in Italy (Italia Bella) and there were 32 with 1 guide. I never felt that we were lacking having only 1 tour guide. Our tour might have been a little different because we had mostly teens/college students as the "kids" and two of the college students were actually doing semesters in Europe so as a whole maybe we were more self sufficient(??). Anyway... it was so wonderful we scheduled it again for 2017 (weird, I know but DH is funny about his traveling...I'm just wanting to hit Florence and buy all the things I left behind  ). I also have a river cruise scheduled with them for 2017 in the summer. 

Again, if you have any questions about this trip or Tauck I'm happy to answer (if I know!).


----------



## emilymad

tink1970 said:


> We did TB last Christmas in Italy (Italia Bella) and there were 32 with 1 guide. I never felt that we were lacking having only 1 tour guide. Our tour might have been a little different because we had mostly teens/college students as the "kids" and two of the college students were actually doing semesters in Europe so as a whole maybe we were more self sufficient(??). Anyway... it was so wonderful we scheduled it again for 2017 (weird, I know but DH is funny about his traveling...I'm just wanting to hit Florence and buy all the things I left behind  ). I also have a river cruise scheduled with them for 2017 in the summer.
> 
> Again, if you have any questions about this trip or Tauck I'm happy to answer (if I know!).



Thanks!  We are two adults with no kids so any age group would be fine with us.  I am glad to hear to you enjoyed it.  How was the food?  It seems that Tauck does more ordering from a menu.  Was this the case?


----------



## carpenta

emilymad said:


> Would you recommend this trip?  Did you feel that 1 guide was enough?  We are researching this trip and ABD but the TB itinerary seems a lot better.



 I would definitely recommend this trip. Having one guide is deceiving. Our guide Andre stayed with us through out the trip. He was a native of Rome and spoke English quite well. He would lecture (talk really) on the bus between cities about what the history and culture we are looking at in each city. In each city we were split into groups and each had an expert guide specific to where we were touring. Our guide in Florence was absolutely an expert on the history and art of the city. In Pisa also we were met by another expert on the leaning tower,cathedral  and baptistery which we toured inside. In St. Peters also another expert was our tour guide and he knew a lot of the guards so we had access to a lot more areas quickly. We stayed in four star hotels (Westin ) and in Florence and Venice we stayed in a two room suite for it was two adults and one child. There is nothing that can compare to opening the French balcony doors and staring at the Duomo in Florence. The food was excellent. When we did eat at restaurants we just ordered off the menu and TB paid the bill. In Venice our hotel opened to a main canal steps from St. Michaels where we would eat breakfast and some lunch on the patio on the water. We felt we really got to see so much more because we stayed right in the cities and I can't say enough how the expert guides made sure you went away with knowledge of the areas and history in a fun way especially for the kids. We had about 30 families split between kids and adults and the kids really bonded well. There was an adult couple on our trip with no kids. The kids actually grouped and left us adults to enjoy each others company. To this day it is one of my daughters and my favorite trips next to the TB Danube river boat cruise. If you have any questions I would be happy to answer.


----------



## emilymad

carpenta said:


> I would definitely recommend this trip. Having one guide is deceiving. Our guide Andre stayed with us through out the trip. He was a native of Rome and spoke English quite well. He would lecture (talk really) on the bus between cities about what the history and culture we are looking at in each city. In each city we were split into groups and each had an expert guide specific to where we were touring. Our guide in Florence was absolutely an expert on the history and art of the city. In Pisa also we were met by another expert on the leaning tower,cathedral  and baptistery which we toured inside. In St. Peters also another expert was our tour guide and he knew a lot of the guards so we had access to a lot more areas quickly. We stayed in four star hotels (Westin ) and in Florence and Venice we stayed in a two room suite for it was two adults and one child. There is nothing that can compare to opening the French balcony doors and staring at the Duomo in Florence. The food was excellent. When we did eat at restaurants we just ordered off the menu and TB paid the bill. In Venice our hotel opened to a main canal steps from St. Michaels where we would eat breakfast and some lunch on the patio on the water. We felt we really got to see so much more because we stayed right in the cities and I can't say enough how the expert guides made sure you went away with knowledge of the areas and history in a fun way especially for the kids. We had about 30 families split between kids and adults and the kids really bonded well. There was an adult couple on our trip with no kids. The kids actually grouped and left us adults to enjoy each others company. To this day it is one of my daughters and my favorite trips next to the TB Danube river boat cruise. If you have any questions I would be happy to answer.



Thank you!  That all sounds wonderful.  It is hard to find reviews so this information is great!


----------



## tink1970

It was actually just my DH and myself too...and ironically the only child (when we booked I was warned no less than 3 times there would be children!) who was annoying was the 16 (very immature 16 year old...). Anyhoo...back to your question re: food. Sadly my DH and I aren't big foodies but we made friends quickly with a couple on the trip who were retired restaurant owners. Most of the sit down dinners (with I believe the exception of one night in Venice) they were very happy about. Every morning there was a breakfast buffet and interestingly I was walking listening to a Dis podcast of the Dis Exclusive trip to Italy. They stayed in the Westin and mentioned the price of the breakfast buffet in Venice...it was something crazy like 49 Euro or something like that. I told my DH that it was good, but not $225 worth (2x2 am x est conversion rate)! 

So breakfast buffets were all good but again, I'm a pretty simple person. They varied a bit but were large and filling and I'm pretty sure someone could find something to like. In Rome, there was an huge dessert (think chocolate cake for breakfast) assortment (yep, I did...); in Florence there was the usual plus savory offerings like rice (? for international travelers?) and lots of healthy (and not so healthy guava is really really sweet ick) juices like carrot cucumber kale etc (they had the whole vegetables in Rome and called it a juice bar but I could never figure out how that worked )...Venice had wonderful fruit and spices next to the fruit displays (I love cinnamon!).

Lunches were frequently on your own-and my DH and I made some terrible choices...not Tauck's fault at all   We did have a special Christmas lunch buffet in Venice and it was very good. I ate enough panettone this trip to last me...until the next trip 

Dinners were mostly together, some buffet style, others order ahead-I believe 3 were ordered ahead from a menu but please don't quote me on that! Again, some were very good, some were good, and only one was just okay (This was according to our friends. My DH and I were in the military and figure fuel in fuel out. He's picky about coffee, I'm picky about sweets-the rest is gravy!). I do remember eating dinner out in Florence and we went somewhere our friends absolutely HAD TO GO which was very authentic. Ironically, the person who cared the least about food (me) got the best meal. 

Our tour guide gave us maps with her recommendations in each city so any mistakes were definitely on us. The hotel front desk staff in each hotel were very helpful with directions and suggestions, sometimes we just didn't take them for whatever reason 

The hotels, as carpenta mentioned were _so_ nice. Our rooms were surprisingly large with nice bathrooms and usually good views. In Rome we had a balcony and would sit outside in our room robes and watch the sun set. In Florence, our room overlooked a lovely square and was across the street from the Arno River and three (I think) bridges down from the Ponte Vecchio. In Venice, we could hang out of our room and twist a bit and see the canal and a lovely church (no idea which one...by then we had seen so very many). I also loved the proximity of our hotel to St Marco Square -out the door, turn, over a bridge, down...there you were. 

As mentioned, there are local guides and they, too, were excellent (well, okay, in Rome, bless her heart, she had bronchitis-still good but I really wanted to prescribe a Z-pack). My favorite was the guide in Florence who just made the Renaissance come alive. Our guide in Pisa allowed us to decide whether we wanted to climb the tower or not (I did-not for the faint of thighs!) ...apparently tickets usually have to be booked in advance but since we were there in the low season it wasn't an issue. 
Since DH and I were the only "couple" we were the ones with the musicians in the gondola...for most a treat but I am a weirdo and hate live music so that was uncomfortable. But still...riding in Venice in a gondola is interesting-touristy but interesting. I didn't expect to enjoy the mask making, and I did. I expected to enjoy the glass blowing and did (not the sales pitch but that's okay).  The biggest surprise was Orvieto and the caves. I was totally like "yeah, whatever" and it was quite enjoyable to learn their history.  

Tauck also has a special after hours tour of the Vatican Museum (like ABD) and we were actually allowed to take photos in the Sistine Chapel. Of course, I'm a rule follower and told my DH not to bring the camera or phone since photos weren't allowed. D'oh!!!!! Oh well...

From everything I've read, heard and researched, ABD does very similar things (Orvieto but no caves; Florence but stays outside of the city; Venice but not glass blowing; Rome with a little more than Tauck-or at least our Tauck...it was the holidays after all). What decided it for us were these factors: cost, staying in Florence, dates, and frankly, not as many young children. I'm a curmudgeon.

The reason we're going back with TB? Cost, staying IN Florence (shopping, shopping, shopping), and my feeling that I really enjoy the brand.

They could make a couple of "tweaks" here and there but overall I had a wonderful experience. I realize you didn't ask (and forgive me anyone who didn't feel like a mini trip report) for this but hopefully this will help you decide.


----------



## Rapunzellover

Tink 1970- love the Tauck/ABD comparison. I do want to point one thing though, re: Sistine Chapel. The "can you take pictures?" thing has nothing to do with what group you're with. I did the ABD and got to take pics. The decision on whether or not pics are allowed depends on what guards you have in the Chapel. Our adventure guides warned us that taking pics would depend on the whims of the guards.

Just to clarify that for anyone curious. Pictures in the Chapel are a luck of the draw thing.


----------



## tink1970

Oh, in no way meant to imply anything to the contrary...that was just a surprise to me! Me without my phone/camera...

I've heard both experiences from people on both tours. But thanks for clarifying


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

tink1970 said:


> The reason we're going back with TB? Cost, staying IN Florence (shopping, shopping, shopping), and my feeling that I really enjoy the brand.
> 
> They could make a couple of "tweaks" here and there but overall I had a wonderful experience. I realize you didn't ask (and forgive me anyone who didn't feel like a mini trip report) for this but hopefully this will help you decide.



Thank you so much for the comparison.  It sounds to me like there isn't too much of a difference, except that Tauck is less expensive, more so if you count that Tauck includes gratuities for the guide.  So for the S. Africa trip it is close to $2,000.00 _per person_ less expensive figuring in the gratuities (2 ABD guides).  In S. Africa ABD and TB stay at the same hotel in Knysa and I prefer the reserve TB uses as it borders Kruger (as opposed to a fenced park like the one ABD uses).  I would prefer the ABD hotel in Cape Town, but that is the only drawback for me and I just can't justify paying an extra few thousand for the small difference.  So TB for us in December!


----------



## Rapunzellover

^  I just didn't want anyone to get the wrong idea.


----------



## carpenta

The first time we did an after hour tour in the Sistine Chapel we were in the chapel and people started taking pictures. I did not want to be "locked up abroad" (lol) and have to do 50 "Hail Marys" to get out of the Pope's jail so I approached a guard. I asked if pictures were allowed? He replied " I don't care for you are on a private tour" and he resumed gabbing with his fellow guards. So I could not click fast enough and even have video of the famous ceiling. Our last time with TB guide as we exited we got to walk down a set of famous stairs that is not readily accessed by the public. I forget the name of the stairway, sorry. Loved Rome so much more for we arrived early and just wandered around checking out all the neighborhoods and even better the small restaurants off the beaten track.


----------



## emilymad

Thank you tink1970!  That was a wonderful comparison.  We were leaning towards TB mainly because the stay in Florence.  I can't imagine a trip to Italy not staying there.  The cost also seems to be significantly cheaper than ABD for a similar tour.  I am with you about the musicians in the gondola.  That would make us very uncomfortable! 

We love Westin's so that is a big selling point for us as well.  We ending up getting a comped breakfast at the Westin in Paris and it was amazing.  It would have been crazy expensive if we had paid for it.

We are trying to decide if we are tour group people so all this information is extremely helpful.


----------



## tink1970

I'm so happy it was helpful!

This doesn't necessarily apply to adult only travelers (or if so indirectly...)-
One thing I forgot to mention which also was a factor...ABD of course caters to families and it seems to families with possibly younger children so their hotels have pools. This means not staying in Florence, and in Venice on an island (well, all of Venice is composed of islands, I know...) that requires shuttling to the "main drag" as it were. Although we'll have DD (17) on our next trip it will be in December and she would prefer to be in the thick of the action vice hanging out at a pool. I think for families considering the two, time of year, age and temperament of their children would factor into decision making.
Geez, you'd think all I do is sit around and research vacations


----------



## carpenta

The breakfasts were wonderful. Full buffet that offers an omlett station. All the cappacino and espresso you want. In Florence the hotel has a roof top restaurant and bar that offers a great view of the city at night. We went up and took pictures on a walkway that extends across the roof and has a direct view of the Duomo. According to Conde Nast the Florence Westin we stayed in was one of their top 50 hotels in their magazine. If you go with TB and stay there ask the front desk for dinner reservations for they were very helpful and got us in a wonderful place.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

I wanted to give an update on our Africa trip.  I had to cancel the Tauck trip as I had miscalculated the return date and it cuts too close to the start of school (January 3rd for dd).  

I was desperate to find another trip that would suit our interests and fit into our schedule -- since I had already booked the flights.  

While reading a brochure from Micato, in their preamble (an insert in the front cover) I read about Butterfield and Robinson.  While I have heard their name I don't think I had ever researched them.  Anyway I went to their website and sure enough they have a scheduled family trip that is very close to our flights.  I called and they were VERY helpful -- so nice (in complete contrast to my ABD agent who is crass and likes nothing more than to recite the rules and restrictions to me ).  They even offered to help me book a trip to Victoria Falls after their journey finished (we will have 2 days and nights afterwards -- I can tell you, under NO circumstances would my ABD agent do this -- she ONLY does the ABD portion of the trip as she has told me).

The Elephant Camp, in Zimbabwe, which is where we wanted to stay, was showing as sold out for our dates.  But the agent e-mailed me this afternoon and said he got us a room.  He will also help coordinate the flights and transportation for us both ways.  He is AWESOME.

Here is what I have found out about B&R: they are an active company -- this trip is multi-sport, which is great for me as I am a very athletic person, but I am a bit worried about dd who can be sluggish.  The trip is guaranteed as soon as they have 1 booking.  They cap their trips at 16 or 18 (the safari lodge in S. Africa only has 7 cottages).  Their accommodations appear to be first class.  Price-wise they are marginally less expensive than ABD.  I am the sort of person who likes to be moving all the time so I think this will be a good fit for me.  They don't have a set time frame for when you have to make a deposit.  Once your name is on their list you have a spot booked.  The agent made it sound as though you can wait a week or two to give them a $1,000.00pp deposit. 

I just thought I'd put their name on "the list" in case there are others like myself who would like to combine exercise with traveling (I don't count walking as exercise, but I would consider hiking in the mountains as exercise).


----------



## calypso726

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I wanted to give an update on our Africa trip.  I had to cancel the Tauck trip as I had miscalculated the return date and it cuts too close to the start of school (January 3rd for dd).
> 
> I was desperate to find another trip that would suit our interests and fit into our schedule -- since I had already booked the flights.
> 
> While reading a brochure from Micato, in their preamble (an insert in the front cover) I read about Butterfield and Robinson.  While I have heard their name I don't think I had ever researched them.  Anyway I went to their website and sure enough they have a scheduled family trip that is very close to our flights.  I called and they were VERY helpful -- so nice (in complete contrast to *my ABD agent* who is crass and likes nothing more than to recite the rules and restrictions to me ).  They even offered to help me book a trip to Victoria Falls after their journey finished (we will have 2 days and nights afterwards -- I can tell you, under NO circumstances would *my ABD agent do this -- she ONLY does the ABD portion of the trip* as she has told me).
> 
> The Elephant Camp, in Zimbabwe, which is where we wanted to stay, was showing as sold out for our dates.  But the agent e-mailed me this afternoon and said he got us a room.  He will also help coordinate the flights and transportation for us both ways.  He is AWESOME.
> 
> Here is what I have found out about B&R: they are an active company -- this trip is multi-sport, which is great for me as I am a very athletic person, but I am a bit worried about dd who can be sluggish.  The trip is guaranteed as soon as they have 1 booking.  They cap their trips at 16 or 18 (the safari lodge in S. Africa only has 7 cottages).  Their accommodations appear to be first class.  Price-wise they are marginally less expensive than ABD.  I am the sort of person who likes to be moving all the time so I think this will be a good fit for me.  They don't have a set time frame for when you have to make a deposit.  Once your name is on their list you have a spot booked.  The agent made it sound as though you can wait a week or two to give them a $1,000.00pp deposit.
> 
> I just thought I'd put their name on "the list" in case there are others like myself who would like to combine exercise with traveling (I don't count walking as exercise, but I would consider hiking in the mountains as exercise).



Glad you found a trip to suit your timing and thank you for sharing and adding to the list of other options. I was just curious, when you mention your ABD agent, do you mean a vacationista that answers the phone when calling ABD? Or, do you mean an authorized Disney Travel agent or other travel agent?


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

calypso726 said:


> Glad you found a trip to suit your timing and thank you for sharing and adding to the list of other options. I was just curious, when you mention your ABD agent, do you mean a vacationista that answers the phone when calling ABD? Or, do you mean an authorized Disney Travel agent or other travel agent?



This is my ABD TA.  I have always found the vactionistas to be friendly and helpful.  I use this SM TA for the discount.  The *only* reason I used her again is that she has the deposit from our cancelled BSM trip (I cancelled the trip, not ABD, just to clarify).  I asked ABD if they could book the trip and use the deposit and they said no, it has to be booked through the same agent.  So I either had to ask her to transfer it to another agency (and I'm fairly certain she would've been slower than ever to do this -- what would be her incentive to be efficient?) or lose the deposit.  So I booked with her.  Incidentally she recited more rules to me today when I asked to book the trip.  No thank you, happy for your repeat business (this will be our 4th booked trip with her), just the rules and a paragraph response.  Plus it really irritates me that I can't pick up a phone and call her -- everything has to be through e-mail.  I had quite a few questions, so I had to call ABD, ask the questions, then e-mail her and wait for a response.


----------



## calypso726

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> This is my ABD TA.  I have always found the vactionistas to be friendly and helpful.  I use this SM TA for the discount.  The *only* reason I used her again is that she has the deposit from our cancelled BSM trip (I cancelled the trip, not ABD, just to clarify).  I asked ABD if they could book the trip and use the deposit and they said no, it has to be booked through the same agent.  So I either had to ask her to transfer it to another agency (and I'm fairly certain she would've been slower than ever to do this -- what would be her incentive to be efficient?) or lose the deposit.  So I booked with her.  Incidentally she recited more rules to me today when I asked to book the trip.  No thank you, happy for your repeat business (this will be our 4th booked trip with her), just the rules and a paragraph response.  Plus it really irritates me that I can't pick up a phone and call her -- everything has to be through e-mail.  I had quite a few questions, so I had to call ABD, ask the questions, then e-mail her and wait for a response.



Wow! For a second I thought it was a vacationista that was being crass and rude to you which would be way out of character. Every vacationista I've spoken with has been wonderful. Yeah, if my TA acted like hat I'd drop her like a hot potato, unless of course my deposit was being held hostage  Your upcoming trip sounds very exciting! If we go the ABD route for Africa, we will definitely be adding a post or pre trip to Victoria Falls.


----------



## sayhello

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> This is my ABD TA.  I have always found the vactionistas to be friendly and helpful.  I use this SM TA for the discount.  The *only* reason I used her again is that she has the deposit from our cancelled BSM trip (I cancelled the trip, not ABD, just to clarify).  I asked ABD if they could book the trip and use the deposit and they said no, it has to be booked through the same agent.  So I either had to ask her to transfer it to another agency (and I'm fairly certain she would've been slower than ever to do this -- what would be her incentive to be efficient?) or lose the deposit.  So I booked with her.  Incidentally she recited more rules to me today when I asked to book the trip.  No thank you, happy for your repeat business (this will be our 4th booked trip with her), just the rules and a paragraph response.  Plus it really irritates me that I can't pick up a phone and call her -- everything has to be through e-mail.  I had quite a few questions, so I had to call ABD, ask the questions, then e-mail her and wait for a response.


You know, now that you have the trip booked, you can still transfer it to another TA (or have the reservation released directly to you).  I did that last year.  At this point, it's not a huge deal if it takes her a while. 

Sayhello


----------



## EllinK

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> The Elephant Camp, in Zimbabwe, which is where we wanted to stay, was showing as sold out for our dates. But the agent e-mailed me this afternoon and said he got us a room. He will also help coordinate the flights and transportation for us both ways. He is AWESOME.



After reading your post, I checked out the B&R site. Which trip takes you to the Elephant Camp?


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

EllinK said:


> After reading your post, I checked out the B&R site. Which trip takes you to the Elephant Camp?



Sorry if my post wasn't clear.

The B&R trip finishes in Johannesburg.  We will be flying from Kruger to JNB, then on to Victoria Falls at the conclusion of the B&R trip.  We will have 2 nights there before heading home via JNB and London Heathrow.  The agent at B&R (who is beyond helpful) was able to arrange everything for us, including securing lodging at Elephant Camp, which was showing online as full and booking a walk with Sylvester, the cheetah ambassador (he is tame and this will be a once-in-a-lifetime experience for us).

I am thrilled with this since our first choice for lodging was Elephant Camp and I really, really wanted to visit Victoria Falls which wasn't going to be possible with the Tauck trip.


----------



## EllinK

Thanks! And please post about the trip when you get back.


----------



## Calfan

So I know Japan has been a frequent mention on threads addressing where we'd like ABD to add a trip.  We are planning on a Japan trip in 2020 for my DD's 18th birthday.  (Yes, I am an obsessive travel planner and have our big family trips planned out through 2021 at this point, LOL!)  So far, the only family-oriented trip I have been able to find for Japan is this one from NatGeo:

http://www.nationalgeographicexpeditions.com/expeditions/tokyo-kyoto-nara-japan-family-tour/detail

I'm a big fan of the NatGeo trips after doing their England Coast to Coast trip last September with CaliforniaGirl09 (and looking forward to their Hiking the Emerald Isle trip this September (with my DH this time)).  So this NatGeo Japan trip would definitely be one I would seriously consider.  (My DS will be 16 that year, so I'm thinking a family trip is still probably best for us).  But I like to have options, and would like to have at least a couple of itineraries to compare.  I'm still hoping that between now and 2020, ABD will add a Japan trip.  But if not, have any of you DISers done a family-oriented Japan trip that is on par (or at least close) with ABD or NatGeo that you would recommend?


----------



## carpenta

We are doing the Nat. Geo family trip to Iceland next summer. We too are quite impressed with Nat. Geo.


----------



## tgeorge

You know what I love about this board? Everyone plans exactly like I do-FAR in advance! I don't feel so bad now  

Sorry, I just had to say that. I'm definitely very interested in Japan and NatGeo will probably be what I go with, but I'm very interested to see if anyone has done Japan with another group and was happy with it


----------



## Bobo912

Calfan, I'm considering the NatGeo Japan Family trip for next summer.  I've traveled with NatGeo, as well, and it is the best company we've traveled with so far.  I haven't been able to find anything else that was specifically listed as a family trip, but my son is about to turn 16 and seems to enjoy the company of adults, so it's not really a concern for me anymore.  I like the Hands On Japan itinerary offered by Inside Japan, but there are no tour dates during our summer school break. They have some other itineraries I'm still considering.  A lot of itineraries seem be a bit heavy of temple visits and I'm trying to avoid that.  Not that I don't want to see temples, but I'm looking for a nice mix of activities.  Trafalgar is also in the running.  Tauck's Essence of Japan looks interesting too.  I've traveled with them a couple of times and they are great, but I think, in this case, it's more than I want to spend.  I'm just at the research stage like you are, so not very helpful.  I hope you get some responses with first hand experience.  I would love some feedback on specific trips too.


----------



## aggiedog

I've spoken at length with InsideJapan, and will most likely use them next summer for a private tour for our kids' graduation trip.  If you do not like a specific itinerary, they can make pretty much any itinerary you want, at any cost level.  You can have a private guide, or even just city guides if you are ok with being "by yourself" in the evenings.


----------



## calypso726

Calfan said:


> So I know Japan has been a frequent mention on threads addressing where we'd like ABD to add a trip.  We are planning on a Japan trip in 2020 for my DD's 18th birthday.  (Yes, I am an obsessive travel planner and have our big family trips planned out through 2021 at this point, LOL!)  So far, the only family-oriented trip I have been able to find for Japan is this one from NatGeo:
> 
> http://www.nationalgeographicexpeditions.com/expeditions/tokyo-kyoto-nara-japan-family-tour/detail
> 
> I'm a big fan of the NatGeo trips after doing their England Coast to Coast trip last September with CaliforniaGirl09 (and looking forward to their Hiking the Emerald Isle trip this September (with my DH this time)).  So this NatGeo Japan trip would definitely be one I would seriously consider.  (My DS will be 16 that year, so I'm thinking a family trip is still probably best for us).  But I like to have options, and would like to have at least a couple of itineraries to compare.  I'm still hoping that between now and 2020, ABD will add a Japan trip.  But if not, have any of you DISers done a family-oriented Japan trip that is on par (or at least close) with ABD or NatGeo that you would recommend?





tgeorge said:


> You know what I love about this board? Everyone plans exactly like I do-FAR in advance! I don't feel so bad now
> 
> Sorry, I just had to say that. I'm definitely very interested in Japan and NatGeo will probably be what I go with, but I'm very interested to see if anyone has done Japan with another group and was happy with it



You are not alone. We are planned out until 2021 as well. We know we will be going on the maiden voyage of the new Disney ship that year and the other one in 2023. 2022 is not planned out yet though. I am hoping ABD decides to do Japan some day. If so, we will definitely go on it. But I'd be interested top hear the experiences of others. Having heard so many great things about NatGeo we may give them a whirl at some point. Some of the photography focused tours look pretty interesting.


----------



## disneyphx

Feeling like a slacker because we have only planned do through to spring break 2019.....
I have looked at that trip because we went to Japan in Nov 2014 and loved it, and can't wait to return. We did it on our own - 3 days in Kyoto with a private guide (DH was at a conference ) then 3 days at Disney and a half day Tokyo tour.
The NatGeo trip looks great, to see some highlights. We actually stayed at the Granvia in Kyoto - good hotel, great location, not luxury. We are hoping to go back in Spring 2018 - cherry blossoms in Kyoto and back to the Disney parks in Japan and Hong Kong.
My profile pic is actually from the Christmas monorail at the Tokyo parks!


----------



## Calfan

Bobo912 said:


> Calfan, I'm considering the NatGeo Japan Family trip for next summer.  I've traveled with NatGeo, as well, and it is the best company we've traveled with so far.  I haven't been able to find anything else that was specifically listed as a family trip, but my son is about to turn 16 and seems to enjoy the company of adults, so it's not really a concern for me anymore.  I like the Hands On Japan itinerary offered by Inside Japan, but there are no tour dates during our summer school break. They have some other itineraries I'm still considering.  A lot of itineraries seem be a bit heavy of temple visits and I'm trying to avoid that.  Not that I don't want to see temples, but I'm looking for a nice mix of activities.  Trafalgar is also in the running.  Tauck's Essence of Japan looks interesting too.  I've traveled with them a couple of times and they are great, but I think, in this case, it's more than I want to spend.  I'm just at the research stage like you are, so not very helpful.  I hope you get some responses with first hand experience.  I would love some feedback on specific trips too.



I will definitely look into Inside Japan, Trafalgar and Tauck.  One of the reasons I've been focused on a family tour is that, like you, I'm looking for a good mix of activities and not just a steady diet of temples day after day.  With my kids turning 16 and 18 in 2020, we could consider a non-family trip, and I will look at the ones you mentioned, but I'm a bit leery of ending up in a group where everyone but my family is a generation (or two, in the case of my kids) older than us.  What has been your experience with the typical demographic on the other Tauck trips you have done?



aggiedog said:


> I've spoken at length with InsideJapan, and will most likely use them next summer for a private tour for our kids' graduation trip.  If you do not like a specific itinerary, they can make pretty much any itinerary you want, at any cost level.  You can have a private guide, or even just city guides if you are ok with being "by yourself" in the evenings.



Thanks.  I will check them out.  Part of my problem in trying to plan Japan is that, unlike the trips we have done in Europe, I don't really know anything about Japan and don't have a good sense of what we should make sure we see there.  So I don't feel like I have enough of a base to construct a custom itinerary.  But I'll start looking at the spec itineraries to see if I can start compiling a list of our "must sees."



disneyphx said:


> Feeling like a slacker because we have only planned do through to spring break 2019.....
> I have looked at that trip because we went to Japan in Nov 2014 and loved it, and can't wait to return. We did it on our own - 3 days in Kyoto with a private guide (DH was at a conference ) then 3 days at Disney and a half day Tokyo tour.
> The NatGeo trip looks great, to see some highlights. We actually stayed at the Granvia in Kyoto - good hotel, great location, not luxury. We are hoping to go back in Spring 2018 - cherry blossoms in Kyoto and back to the Disney parks in Japan and Hong Kong.
> My profile pic is actually from the Christmas monorail at the Tokyo parks!



You're a total slacker, LOL   Good to hear that you think the NatGeo trip would provide a good overview.  We would definitely plan to add a few days to whatever tour we end up doing for Tokyo Disney and maybe some extra touring time in Japan.  The NatGeo trip is 9 days, and if we are going that far, we would want to stay at least 2 weeks.


----------



## Jitzy

When I lived in Japan, I signed our family up for some day tours through Sunrise Tours.  Just day trips.  But they are plentiful.  You can base yourself in a big city for a few days, tour the local sights then move on by train to the next experience.  The guides were informative and efficient.


----------



## sayhello

disneyphx said:


> Feeling like a slacker because we have only planned do through to spring break 2019.....
> I have looked at that trip because we went to Japan in Nov 2014 and loved it, and can't wait to return. We did it on our own - 3 days in Kyoto with a private guide (DH was at a conference ) then 3 days at Disney and a half day Tokyo tour.
> The NatGeo trip looks great, to see some highlights. We actually stayed at the Granvia in Kyoto - good hotel, great location, not luxury. We are hoping to go back in Spring 2018 - cherry blossoms in Kyoto and back to the Disney parks in Japan and Hong Kong.
> My profile pic is actually from the Christmas monorail at the Tokyo parks!


My vacations are planned through Summer of 2017, and I thought *that* was way out.  I don't know enough about what I'll be doing to make plans and commit money that far out!!  

Sayhello


----------



## TXTransplant

sayhello said:


> My vacations are planned through Summer of 2017, and I thought *that* was way out.  I don't know enough about what I'll be doing to make plans and commit money that far out!!
> 
> Sayhello



I haven't even planned our 2017 trip, yet!!!  The Alaska and Canadian Rockies ABD trips don't fit with our schedule. I'd really like to do Hawaii, but after having another amazing ABD experience, I'm not sure I want to "go it alone". We may end up doing Tauck next year...


----------



## acndis

I LOVE the Nat Geo Japan Itinerary.  We were thinking about it for next summer.  However, we are still traveling with my dad and he feels most comfortable with ABD.  If someone goes on this, please report back.  It sounds amazing.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Not surprisingly, it's totally on our list, too! I'm planning to piggyback on Calfan's research so thanks for all the tips. I'm *only* planned out right now through early 2018 on my future vacation spreadsheet. I would have more planned but with DD going off to college, I'm not sure what her summer schedule is going to be like so want to accommodate. I have a list a mile long to choose from though  I'd love to join Calpyso and her DH on the maiden voyage of the new ship. Must put that down on the calendar


----------



## sayhello

I haven't traveled with them, but my neighbor, who is well-traveled, uses Overseas Adventure Travel a lot.  I'd heard about them a few years ago, but kind of forgot about them.  Their itinerary looks like a kind of off-the-beaten-track kind of trip.  

https://www.oattravel.com/trips/land-adventures/asia/japans-cultural-treasures/2017#!

However, they only accept kids 13 and older on their trips.

A big plus (for me)?  No Single Supplement!!

Sayhello


----------



## Calfan

Thanks again for the feedback.  I've checked out a few itineraries, and my list of possible choices now consists of:  the NatGeo Japan Family Expedition, Tauck's Essence of Japan (noticeably more expensive than the NatGeo trip, but also 4 days longer, I think) and Inside Japan's Luxury Japan or Japan Enrichment Small Group Tour.  Luxury Japan, which is one of Inside Japan's superior tours, says to call for a price quote, so that one might be even more scary price-wise than Tauck, LOL.  When I was looking at the Tauck Essence of Japan itinerary, I noticed a link to one of their discussion forums about the trip that talked about teens on the trip.  There were at least two families planning to take their teen-aged children on Essence of Japan (different dates, so they weren't traveling together), so that made me feel better about my 16- and 18- year olds possibly doing that trip (if I can get over the price, that is).  Trafalgar looked like it also had a couple of good Japan itineraries, but I got the impression that it was a notch down from the others in terms of service, accommodations, etc.  Anyone have experience with Trafalgar who can comment?  Still hoping ABD comes up with a Japan itinerary within the next few years to add to the mix.


----------



## aggiedog

Well, if the economy holds out, we'll do InsideJapan and report back!  We lived in Japan for 2 years a long time ago and pre-kids, so have a general idea of what we'd like to see, and what we can "BTDT" skip.  Hence a more custom tour.  If I'd never been before, I think many of their tours would be a great introduction to the country.


----------



## DisneyKevin

Hi Folks,

Because this is the ABD forum and this thread is about other tour groups, it will be merges with the Other Options thread.


----------



## Rapunzellover

I have up to 2019 planned.  This year, Spain/Scotland. Next year, England/France.  2018/19 will be Australia and Italy again (different areas).  Haven't decided the order.  Might throw in Germany somewhere, although I've really been cooling on a trip to there.

Tauck announced they're starting a Portugal trip next year (details coming next month), and after they post that I'm probably going to add it to the list.  Maybe rearrange 2017 to do it next year.  Portugal is top of my list and I want it now!!


----------



## tink1970

We're planned through next Thanksgiving ('17) so slacker here too.

I really really wanted to do Spain with Tauck (my BFF is high school's sister has been with Tauck for 20-ish years and that's one of the ones she does)but the dates didn't work out.  

Off to research since I'm clearly behind the 8 ball planning for '18


----------



## Golden Rose

We usually plan pretty far out, but for the first time in years, we haven't even planned a year out!   We'll have had a really crazy year - Alaska cruise August 2015, DCL Holiday Bahamas cruise end of 2015, ABD Costa Rica spring break 2016, we just got back from WDW and Universal, and we're heading to Galapagos with Celebrity in August- but then we don't have anything actually booked except WDW for next spring break.  (We have DVC, so at least we always have a WDW trip planned.)   We've talked about several possibilities for this year's holiday season or next summer - South Africa ABD, Australia (probably not ABD, considering the new itinerary), Danube River Cruise ABD (waiting to hear back from the first trip reports!), or even a great American West type trip with friends.  We travel with fairly young kids; our daughter is 5 and our son is 11.  We've just about ruled South Africa out for the near future because I honestly don't think our daughter is capable of being silent and motionless for long periods of time on game drives yet.  We've just had such a crazy, vacation intensive year that having very little booked after August feels really strange.  (Yes, we may have gone a little overboard this year.)  We feel like we're in a sweet spot where my mother and step father are still healthy enough to travel with us, and the kids are more or less old enough for serious travel.

We are still struggling some with when to do ABD and when to do the trips on our own.  Between us, we speak passable English (obviously), Spanish, French, Italian, and German, and can make ourselves understood in Portuguese when we have to.  We are comfortable hiring private guides and trying out local restaurants.  That said, we did try ABD in Costa Rica, a place I'd previously traveled on my own, and we loved it.  It was particularly good for our very, very extroverted daughter, who is happiest with other children.  I also would feel safer going into some parts of the world with Disney, or another group like Tauck Bridges or Abercrombie and Kent Family, both of which we've seriously researched.  It's because clear to me that my kids would prefer we do group travel for a while.  There were so many really wonderful people on the ABD we tried, and it really was one of the best vacations we've shared as a family.


----------



## TXTransplant

(I don't want to start a new thread for this, because I know it will eventually be combined with this one...) I am looking for ABD-like experiences for Hawaii.  I'm trying to plan for next summer, and my instinct is telling me to do either the Canadian Rockies (with Tauck Bridges) or Hawaii, and I am really leaning toward the latter.  I know I could do Hawaii on my own, but my son just gets so much enjoyment from interacting with other families/kids (and we would probably kill each other after a couple of days if we went just the two of us).

I know Aulani offers excursions, but I don't really want to stay there.  I've looked at a couple of travel companies including Trafalgar (their itineraries look decent), Nat Geo (2017 trips are not listed and it is over $6k per person!), and Backroads (only one choice for our available travel dates and the trip is only 6 days/5 nights).

I'm sort of leaning towards more adventure travel for this one - zip-lining, hiking, kayaking/paddleboarding, etc.  I am not opposed to booking accommodations and inter-island travel on my own and using a company to do day-trips and excursions.  But, what I do want is to be in small groups that include kids/families (some of the tours I looked at and did not list here appeared to be more geared toward adults/retirees).

Any suggestions out there?


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

Nat Geo has a Family Expedition to Hawaii http://www.nationalgeographicexpeditions.com/expeditions/hawaii-family-tour/detail


----------



## TXTransplant

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> Nat Geo has a Family Expedition to Hawaii http://www.nationalgeographicexpeditions.com/expeditions/hawaii-family-tour/detail



Yes, I mentioned that in my original post.  But they have no 2017 dates showing, and it is over $6000 per person!  I was hoping to hear about some other alternatives.


----------



## RSM

We are doing the Canadian Rockies starting 7/10, but doing it more on our own.  Starting in Vancouver and taking the Rocky Mountaineer train to Kamloops, then Jasper.  Picking up a car in Jasper and staying in Jasper, then heading to Lake Louise, Banff, and Calgary.  I'll let you know how easy it is to do on your own if interested.


----------



## TXTransplant

RSM said:


> We are doing the Canadian Rockies starting 7/10, but doing it more on our own.  Starting in Vancouver and taking the Rocky Mountaineer train to Kamloops, then Jasper.  Picking up a car in Jasper and staying in Jasper, then heading to Lake Louise, Banff, and Calgary.  I'll let you know how easy it is to do on your own if interested.



I'd love to hear about it!  That is another trip that I'm confident we could do on our own, but I have really grown to appreciate the benefits of traveling with other families!


----------



## Bobo912

We did a trip on our own in 2013 that combined the ABD and Tauck itineraries - GNP, Banff, Jasper and Lake Louise. We had a fantastic time and it was super easy.  It was just me and my son (who turned 13 during the trip).  He says it is one of his favorite trips, even though he only had me for company.


----------



## sayhello

I've been to Maui three times, and always travel solo.  But there's no way I could spend 2 weeks totally on my own; I'd go crazy.  I have found that there are a WEALTH of independent tour operators on Maui that you can book for a day or half day, and make up your own itinerary and still have that interaction with others.  The Pacific Whale Foundation has a bunch of really great excursions, and if you join the foundation for a year (not very expensive) you get a discount, and sometimes even one free excursion.  When I get home, I could find some of the other companies I've booked with over the years.  From what I've seen, most of the actual tour companies either align themselves with a resort and use that resort to book all the activities through, or they contract with the same tour companies you can do yourself.  Most of them do not run their own excursions.

Backroads is great, but their trips are too short in my opinion.  You could always combine that with a few days you booked yourself, though.

Sayhello


----------



## TXTransplant

sayhello said:


> I've been to Maui three times, and always travel solo.  But there's no way I could spend 2 weeks totally on my own; I'd go crazy.  I have found that there are a WEALTH of independent tour operators on Maui that you can book for a day or half day, and make up your own itinerary and still have that interaction with others.  The Pacific Whale Foundation has a bunch of really great excursions, and if you join the foundation for a year (not very expensive) you get a discount, and sometimes even one free excursion.  When I get home, I could find some of the other companies I've booked with over the years.  From what I've seen, most of the actual tour companies either align themselves with a resort and use that resort to book all the activities through, or they contract with the same tour companies you can do yourself.  Most of them do not run their own excursions.
> 
> Backroads is great, but their trips are too short in my opinion.  You could always combine that with a few days you booked yourself, though.
> 
> Sayhello



Sayhello, that would be great!  I don't mind booking the hotel at all (in fact, I'm kind of picky about hotels), but having the names of some great tour/excursion operators would be fantastic!  I don't think we will do a full two weeks, but I was thinking 8-10 days.

And you are right, for the money, the Backroads trips are too short!  I did think about combining it with pre- or post-days on our own, but I thought I'd check here first.


----------



## TXTransplant

Bobo912 said:


> We did a trip on our own in 2013 that combined the ABD and Tauck itineraries - GNP, Banff, Jasper and Lake Louise. We had a fantastic time and it was super easy.  It was just me and my son (who turned 13 during the trip).  He says it is one of his favorite trips, even though he only had me for company.



Good to know!  And just to clarify...my son and I have a wonderful time traveling together.  However, it is just the two of us 11 out of 12 months of the year (he spends every July visiting his dad).  Considering how much time we spend together when we are not traveling, it's really nice to meet other families when we vacation.  Honestly, it's as much a break from routine for me as it is for him!


----------



## Cousin Orville

TXTransplant said:


> (I don't want to start a new thread for this, because I know it will eventually be combined with this one...) I am looking for ABD-like experiences for Hawaii.  I'm trying to plan for next summer, and my instinct is telling me to do either the Canadian Rockies (with Tauck Bridges) or Hawaii, and I am really leaning toward the latter.  I know I could do Hawaii on my own, but my son just gets so much enjoyment from interacting with other families/kids (and we would probably kill each other after a couple of days if we went just the two of us).
> 
> I know Aulani offers excursions, but I don't really want to stay there.  I've looked at a couple of travel companies including Trafalgar (their itineraries look decent), Nat Geo (2017 trips are not listed and it is over $6k per person!), and Backroads (only one choice for our available travel dates and the trip is only 6 days/5 nights).
> 
> I'm sort of leaning towards more adventure travel for this one - zip-lining, hiking, kayaking/paddleboarding, etc.  I am not opposed to booking accommodations and inter-island travel on my own and using a company to do day-trips and excursions.  But, what I do want is to be in small groups that include kids/families (some of the tours I looked at and did not list here appeared to be more geared toward adults/retirees).
> 
> Any suggestions out there?



I don't know how much I can help, but I thought I'd say "hello from Maui!"  We're here now.  Usually we don't do a lot of organized/tour activities in HI.  Not necessarily right or wrong, we just typically chill out when we're here.  We are doing zip lining in a few days, and trips out on our own.  If you have any questions regarding resorts or HI with children, let me know.  What works for us is 5-7 days per island and usually down time (pool/beach time) every other day.  We've been a few times to Oahu, Maui, and Kauai.


----------



## TXTransplant

Cousin Orville said:


> I don't know how much I can help, but I thought I'd say "hello from Maui!"  We're here now.  Usually we don't do a lot of organized/tour activities in HI.  Not necessarily right or wrong, we just typically chill out when we're here.  We are doing zip lining in a few days, and trips out on our own.  If you have any questions regarding resorts or HI with children, let me know.  What works for us is 5-7 days per island and usually down time (pool/beach time) every other day.  We've been a few times to Oahu, Maui, and Kauai.




Aloha!!!  Resort recommendations would be great!  I'm thinking we might do one or two nights on Oahu (have to do Pearl Harbor or my son will never forgive me!), four or five nights on Maui, and two or three nights on Kauai (not necessarily in that order).  Maybe 10 or 11 days total.  I've looked at the Grand Wailea in Maui, but that's it, and I'm definitely open to suggestions.  I would like to have one stay at a really nice beach hotel and another at a resort with a cool pool/mini waterpark and organized kids' activities (which is why I was looking at the Grand Wailea).  I would be content to lay around on a beach for the majority of the trip, but my JA will be bored to tears if that is all we do.


----------



## Cousin Orville

I haven't been to the Grand Wailea, but I've heard good things.  I've been to the Four Seasons Maui and Westin Maui.  My oldest loved the Four Seasons.  It's a wonderful resort and very kid friendly.  It's hard to argue against the 4S Maui.  It consistently get rated as one of the best resorts in the US.  It has one of my favorite restaurants on the island (the Italian restaurant overlooking the ocean). My kids loved it, but if I was staying in that area again, I'd try the Grand Wailea as well.  It just looks newer, fresher, and even more kid friendly.  We're at the Westin near Lahaina now for a family reunion.  It's also very nice.  There's a few really good restaurants we've found up here.  The Grand Wailea is where I'd go next.

Kauai we stayed at the Grand Hyatt on Kauai.  Very nice resort.  We stayed there 4 nights which was plenty for us to tour around.  We stayed here after 5 nights in Aulani, and to be honest the Grand Hyatt was slightly disappointing.  If we had done it the other way and did Aulani 2nd, I don't think we would have had a problem.  Kauai is absolutely magnificent and well worth a few nights.  We did a helicopter tour on Kauai and Maui.  Both cool, but Kauai was possibly the best helicopter ride on Earth.  Unbelievable.

On Oahu we've stayed at many resorts, but I'll just focus on the Royal Hawaiian and Aulani.  Polar opposites.  Royal Hawaiian is old school luxury Hawaii.  If you're staying on Waikiki, this is the place.  Not incredibly kid focused, but not snobby either.  My kids loved it.  Alumni, is unlike any resort elsewhere.  It's not as luxury focused as some, but it is so very Hawaiian.  It basically tells the story of Hawaii thematically.  And it has the best pool in Hawaii that I've seen.  I haven't been in 1.5 yrs, and I think it's gotten more popular.  But it's my favorite resort.  I say that with some reservation, because it is not the 4S by any stretch.   And I'm one who is very split personality when it comes to resorts and vacations.  I like my luxury resorts out there in the world, but I like my Disney Side as well.  Aulani is a very interesting balance which if nothing else is very unique.  I think it's worth trying once (much like ABD itself Haha) to see if it's for you.


----------



## TXTransplant

Cousin Orville said:


> I haven't been to the Grand Wailea, but I've heard good things.  I've been to the Four Seasons Maui and Westin Maui.  My oldest loved the Four Seasons.  It's a wonderful resort and very kid friendly.  It's hard to argue against the 4S Maui.  It consistently get rated as one of the best resorts in the US.  It has one of my favorite restaurants on the island (the Italian restaurant overlooking the ocean). My kids loved it, but if I was staying in that area again, I'd try the Grand Wailea as well.  It just looks newer, fresher, and even more kid friendly.  We're at the Westin near Lahaina now for a family reunion.  It's also very nice.  There's a few really good restaurants we've found up here.  The Grand Wailea is where I'd go next.
> 
> Kauai we stayed at the Grand Hyatt on Kauai.  Very nice resort.  We stayed there 4 nights which was plenty for us to tour around.  We stayed here after 5 nights in Aulani, and to be honest the Grand Hyatt was slightly disappointing.  If we had done it the other way and did Aulani 2nd, I don't think we would have had a problem.  Kauai is absolutely magnificent and well worth a few nights.  We did a helicopter tour on Kauai and Maui.  Both cool, but Kauai was possibly the best helicopter ride on Earth.  Unbelievable.
> 
> On Oahu we've stayed at many resorts, but I'll just focus on the Royal Hawaiian and Aulani.  Polar opposites.  Royal Hawaiian is old school luxury Hawaii.  If you're staying on Waikiki, this is the place.  Not incredibly kid focused, but not snobby either.  My kids loved it.  Alumni, is unlike any resort elsewhere.  It's not as luxury focused as some, but it is so very Hawaiian.  It basically tells the story of Hawaii thematically.  And it has the best pool in Hawaii that I've seen.  I haven't been in 1.5 yrs, and I think it's gotten more popular.  But it's my favorite resort.  I say that with some reservation, because it is not the 4S by any stretch.   And I'm one who is very split personality when it comes to resorts and vacations.  I like my luxury resorts out there in the world, but I like my Disney Side as well.  Aulani is a very interesting balance which if nothing else is very unique.  I think it's worth trying once (much like ABD itself Haha) to see if it's for you.




Thanks for the great suggestions!  In my quick search, I did also take note of the Westin Maui, mainly because it is priced significantly less per night.  But, I tend to think I'm going to want to splurge on Maui.  I was leaning away from Aulani, mainly because I don't expect to spend more than one or two nights on Oahu, and it is so far from everything (and they have that pesky parking fee that applies to us non-DVC common-folk).  I was thinking maybe I could save some money on the Oahu portion of the trip if I didn't do a beach resort.  But, now you have me leaning the other way! 

The other question would be...if we only plan to do a couple of days on Oahu, would it be better to do it at the beginning of the trip or at the end?  I was thinking at the end, just to make the logistics for the flight home easier.  But, then, if I don't do a resort like Aulani, we would kind of be ending the trip on a low-note.

I can book the Grand Hyatt Kauai, the Grand Wailea, and the Westin Maui (as well as a few others) all through my credit card, and it offers some nice perks, like free breakfast everyday.  But, there is a big price difference between the Westin and the other two properties!


----------



## Cousin Orville

TXTransplant said:


> Thanks for the great suggestions!  In my quick search, I did also take note of the Westin Maui, mainly because it is priced significantly less per night.  But, I tend to think I'm going to want to splurge on Maui.  I was leaning away from Aulani, mainly because I don't expect to spend more than one or two nights on Oahu, and it is so far from everything (and they have that pesky parking fee that applies to us non-DVC common-folk).  I was thinking maybe I could save some money on the Oahu portion of the trip if I didn't do a beach resort.  But, now you have me leaning the other way!
> 
> The other question would be...if we only plan to do a couple of days on Oahu, would it be better to do it at the beginning of the trip or at the end?  I was thinking at the end, just to make the logistics for the flight home easier.  But, then, if I don't do a resort like Aulani, we would kind of be ending the trip on a low-note.
> 
> I can book the Grand Hyatt Kauai, the Grand Wailea, and the Westin Maui (as well as a few others) all through my credit card, and it offers some nice perks, like free breakfast everyday.  But, there is a big price difference between the Westin and the other two properties!



I would do Aulani at the end of a trip.  It's perfect resort to just chill poolside and at the beach.  If I was going to Waikiki, I'd do that at the beginning of the trip.  So more active at the beginning.. more relaxed at the end.

The Grand Hyatt on Kauai is a very good resort.  If you have points for it, done.  We used it as base camp to take drives around the island.

The Westin is a very good resort.  I'd probably rank it a little lower than the Grand Hyatt on Kauai....but similar.  The food is not that great here.  Even casual food is mostly disappointing although I did have a good Kalua Pork Slider yesterday.  There are some good places a short drive away.  The pool is extensive and the ocean views are beautiful.  Obviously it just comes down to price.  I'm sure the GW is nicer.  If the trip composed of Aulani and the Westin Maui, I would absolutely end in Aulani.


----------



## EllinK

TXTransplant said:


> I can book the Grand Hyatt Kauai, the Grand Wailea, and the Westin Maui (as well as a few others) all through my credit card, and it offers some nice perks, like free breakfast everyday.



What credit card do you have? Free breakfast sounds like a very worthwhile perk!


----------



## TXTransplant

EllinK said:


> What credit card do you have? Free breakfast sounds like a very worthwhile perk!



I have the Capital One VISA rewards card (Jennifer Garner does their commercials).  I get two points for every dollar spent. And while I can't trade points in for airline tickets, I can reimburse myself for travel purchases using the points (they call it travel eraser). The last two years, I've gotten a $1000 credit towards travel ($2000 total). The best part is, the $ I spend with ABD gets me points that I can then cash in to reimburse my ABD travel. It's not as good a deal as some airline cards, but I'm not loyal to one airline. So, this works best for me.

In addition to the rewards, they have preferred hotels. If you book and pay with the card, you get guaranteed best rate, free room upgrade, free wifi, free breakfast (where available), and a $25 food credit. I had booked the Waldorf Astoria in Rome with the card, but I cancelled it in favor of an Airbnb that was much more centrally located. So, I haven't actually used this perk, yet. But if we go to Hawaii, I probably will book at least one hotel through the card's booking site. The Kempinski in Munich is one of the preferred hotels. If you've done the Germany ABD (or read my trip report from last year), you know it would be worth it to get the card just for that breakfast


----------



## Cousin Orville

One other thought about the islands.  It may be a gross generalization, but to me Maui and the west coast of Oahu are similar.  The landscape and general "remoteness" is similar.  In fact, this area around Lahaina now feels more populated (for better or worse) than the Ko'olina. So if you wanted more variety I'd pair Kauai with either Ko'olina or Maui.  If you were going to do Waikiki, I've paired that before with either Maui which was a good combo.  In either case you get variety and a couple of islands.


----------



## sayhello

@TXTransplant -

So for Maui, some of the excursions I booked were (note, most of these folks will pick you up and drop you back at your hotel, which works wonderfully):

The Pacific Whale Foundation http://www.pacificwhale.org/   I did a whale watch with them (end of the season, so we didn't see any whales, but it was still a beautiful time out on the water!) and their Lanai snorkel & turtle watch.  We ended up in the middle of a pod of dolphins on our way back -- so cool!

Alii Nui Snorkel & Sail - http://www.aliinuimaui.com/  - snorkeling on a beautiful yacht.  A really good time, with food & snorkeling, and turtles.  I actually booked this through the Maui Dive Shop  http://mauidiveshop.com/ but it looks like you may be able to book directly now.

Temptation Tours http://www.temptationtours.com/   I booked a Haleakala Sunrise tour with them.  It's a Maui activity I *highly* recommend!  You get up at oh-dark-hundred, they pick you up at your hotel and take you up the volcano to watch the sunrise over the crater on top of Haleakala.  (Since a tremendous eruption that blew out the side of the volcano now vents it out that way, the main crater is "dead", and perfectly safe).  And one of the most gorgeous places to watch a sunrise I've *ever* seen.  Plan to do it one of the first days of your trip, while you're still jetlagged, and will wake up early anyways!    Topped off with breakfast at a country club part way back down the volcano.



Valley Isle Excursions https://www.tourmaui.com/   I booked the Road to Hana tour with them.  You *can* do the Road to Hana yourself, but a) whoever drives doesn't get to see the scenery, because you seriously have to pay attention to the twisty, turny narrow road.  Plus b) You can't take rental cars on the second half of the road (from Hana back around the far side of the island) because the road is (deliberately) not that good.  You have to turn around and go back the way you came.  The tours will take their vans there, though, and you get to see the moon-like deforested "backside" of Maui.

I also did The Feast at Lele for a luau on my birthday.  The show is fabulous, and the food is provided by a real restaurant, and is quite good (and plentiful).  The show covers the dances of various areas of Polynesia, and for each segment, they serve you food from that area.  And it's literally *right* on the beach!  Excellent time.  Try to book early, as the seating is assigned based on when you book.

I also did my first ziplining on Maui!  There's a place called The Maui Tropical Plantation http://mauitropicalplantation.com/maui-zip-lines/  , which is a pineapple plantation that does fun tram tours and also has 2 ziplines.  The one I did is the "family" zipline, which is a tower-to-tower zipline around the grounds of the Plantation that was plenty adventurous for me.     They also have a *much* more adventurous zipline that goes up into the surrounding mountains.

Another favorite for me is the show Ulalena http://www.mauitheatre.com/ulalena.php in Lahaina.  It's a beautiful show with Polynesian-inspired music and dance, along with some Cirque du Soleil-type acrobatics.  Beautiful!

That's all I can think of right now.  I'll look through my photos and see what else I can recall.

Sayhell


----------



## mare1203

We've been to Hawaii a couple times. Never been to Maui, but I've been to Oahu and Kauai. In Oahu, we like to stay right on Waikiki. Lately we've been at the Outrigger Waikiki as we love the views and location, but there are tons of options around that area. 

When we stay in Kauai we just love, love, love staying at Hanalei Bay. It's so relaxing and laid back, but definitely out of the way. Probably an hour drive from the airport, but so worth it. Other than Princeville Resort, it's much more geared toward VRBO. We've rented a few places from VRBO because we love the laid back atmosphere and quiet beauty of Hanalei versus the busy, more resort center of Poipu. We have always sort of pieced together tours based on what we want to do when we're in Hawaii. We usually book a few days in Oahu to get the resort feel before heading out to relax in Hanalei. Anyway, to get to the tour companies, we've used both Outfitters Kauai and Princeville Ranch Adventures for our tour days. Both were day tours, but you can find longer options as well. We liked both, but Outfitters Kauai had a tour that included kayaking, hiking, and ziplining, which we loved, and the group was a good size. 12-15 is pretty average. Also, if you end up on Kauai, don't miss the Na Pali Coastline hike. We did the short version, which is what most people do because to go the whole way you'll need a camping permit, but it's amazing. One day I'll go back and do the boat trip or Helicopter ride of Na Pali...


----------



## Calfan

We just returned from the Thomson Family Adventures Wonders of China trip, and it was fantastic.  Since this is an ABD site, I’m not going to post a trip report. But for those looking at alternatives to ABD, I thought it might be helpful to provide some general thoughts on pros/cons of Thomson vs. ABD based on our experience and also to provide some specific thoughts on the China itineraries for anyone considering China.

Group size – This one definitely goes in favor of Thomson, at least in my opinion.  We had 10 people on our Wonders of China trip (our family of four plus another family of six), and I loved loved loved the smaller group experience (compared to 34 on our Scotland ABD in 2013, 42 on our Central Europe ABD in 2014 and 49 on our Baltics cruise add-on ABD in 2015).  Everything was just so much more efficient, from taking family photos to bathroom breaks, and I really think the time saved due to this efficiency allowed us to do more in the way of sightseeing and activities.  Our days were very full in a good way.  I never had the sense that time was being wasted due to the logistics of dealing with a larger group.  Of course, it helped that we were very compatible with the other family, and our kids really enjoyed spending time with their kids.  I might have felt differently about things if we did not get along with the others in our small group.  Regardless, knowing how great the small group experience can be, I definitely see myself defaulting to smaller group options in the future, most likely Thomson (capped at around 20) or NatGeo (capped at 25 for their family trips), depending on which itinerary I like best. 

Guide ratio – This is another solid win for Thomson.  We had two full-time guides for our group of 10 (a main guide and an assistant guide who also acted as a rafiki for the kids).  (Thomson provides a rafiki for any family group of eight or more.)  In addition, we added a local guide in every city other than Beijing. (Both of our full-time guides live in Beijing, so there was no need to add local knowledge there.)  Each local guide met us at the airport with the bus, attended every activity/event/meal with us while we were in that city and took us back to the airport when it was time to move on to the next city.  So it was really like having three guides in Xi’an, Chengdu, Yangshuo and Shanghai.  Much more so than the step-on guides that ABD uses locally where, at least in my experience to date, that guide is with the group for just one event or city tour.  As a side note, my family extended our stay in Shanghai for a couple of extra days so we could go to Shanghai Disneyland.  Our transfer back to the airport was provided by Thomson, and they had our local guide from Shanghai meet us at our hotel with a driver to take us to the airport. She stayed with us through the airline check-in process (pretty critical in China) and left us as we headed to security. 

Hotels – This one goes in the ABD column.  With the exception of our hotel in Yangshuo, the Thomson hotels were all 5-star hotels, but I think in the cases of Beijing and Shanghai, the Thomson hotels were a notch down from what ABD offers in terms of luxury and location (Shanghai).  In Beijing, Thomson stays at the Renaissance Capital Beijing, and ABD stays at the Rosewood.  The Renaissance was a very nice hotel with an amazing breakfast buffet, but I suspect the Rosewood is nicer.  Both are located in the Central Business District (CBD) in Beijing.  In Shanghai, Thomson now uses the Regal Shanghai East Asia Hotel, and I wasn’t terribly impressed given that it is supposedly a 5-star hotel.  Our room had a smoke smell when we first checked in, and everything in our room looked a bit worn.  In addition, I would have much preferred a location near the Bund, which is where ABD stays, instead of where the Regal is located in the French Concession.  Both Thomson and ABD stay at the Ritz Carlton Chengdu, which is one of the nicest hotels I have ever stayed at, so they are even there.  The China ABD does not actually stay in Xi’an (it flies in and out the same day), so no comparison there.  (Thomson uses the Hilton Xi’an, which is a very nice hotel with a great location inside the old city of Xi’an.).  In Yangshuo, Thomson uses what I would say is a 3-star hotel, but they chose it based on its location in the heart of Yangshuo.  ABD uses the Ritz Carlton Guilin, which I’m sure is a fabulous hotel, but given all we did in Yangshuo, I would much prefer to be located there, rather than in Guilin.  I will note that Wi-Fi was included everywhere we stayed, which has not always been my experience with ABD.

Baggage handling – This one is going to be a matter of preference. I tip in favor of Thomson here, but I suspect many might not agree with me.  With Thomson, we were responsible for taking our bags up to our room after check-in and for bringing them back down to the lobby on check-out day.  Since all of our hotels had elevators, this wasn’t much of a hardship.  It did not involve lugging heavy suitcases up and down stairs, for example.  And the guides did offer us the use of porters, but we always declined so we would not have to wait for our luggage to be brought up.  While the ideal would be what I experienced on my NatGeo England Coast to Coast trip (bags left in room upon departure from hotel and waiting in next hotel room upon arrival), if I can’t have that, I prefer the way Thomson does it to ABD’s early morning bag pulls and having to wait for luggage to be delivered at the next hotel. 

Beverages and snacks – Tie.  We had unlimited access to bottled water on the bus, and two bottles of water were provided every day in each hotel room.  (My family of four had two rooms.)  The guides also always had snacks available, although it was mostly the kids who indulged in these, as our meals were ample, and all meals except for two dinners were included in the trip. Beer, wine and sodas were included in all but a couple of lunches/dinners.

Photos – I’d call this a tie too.  Both our guides were taking pictures, and while there isn’t a process for accessing the guide pictures like ABD has, both guides were air dropping or emailing pictures to us throughout the trip.  I actually preferred this since I got pictures real-time for purposes of Facebook posts, etc.  They always took pictures with our own cameras when asked as well, and with only two families on the trip, the picture taking process wasn’t the time sink it can sometimes be with ABD.

So that is my assessment of the general differences between Thomson and ABD.  If there is some category I haven’t covered above, please feel free to ask.

With regard to a specific comparison of the Thomson and ABD China itineraries, I think this one is largely going to come down to how much you prioritize spending time in the parks with ABD (Hong Kong and Shanghai Disneyland) and in including Hong Kong in your itinerary.  If your priority is the parks and in hitting Hong Kong, then ABD is clearly the right choice. If your emphasis is on more substantive sightseeing and activities in mainland China, then Thomson is the way to go (based purely on itinerary; obviously the factors above need to be weighed in). 

The Thomson trip is two days longer than the ABD trip and does not include Hong Kong.  (I would definitely like to go to Hong Kong and considered adding on extra days to do that, but once Shanghai Disneyland came into the mix, we decided to add on two extra days for Shanghai Disneyland.  I felt like I would have other opportunities to get to Hong Kong (likely in conjunction with a Southeast Asia trip or a Japan trip, both of which are on the radar), but that I was much less likely to go back to mainland China, so my priority was doing as much as possible there.)  With the two extra trip days and not hitting Hong Kong, the Thomson trip is able to spend two nights in Xi’an (where the ABD flies in and out the same day) and three nights in Yangshuo.  To me, these are the critical difference makers in the itineraries that tip me in favor of Thomson (both in the booking and in the experience).  I loved seeing the Terra Cotta warriors in Xi’an, but I also really enjoyed the other things we did there (bike riding on the 600 year old walls of the old city, visiting the excavation site of the tomb of the Han Emperor (which was an unexpected gem) and a dumpling tasting dinner.  (Note that with Thomson, we did not have a private viewing of the Terra Cotta warriors; I believe ABD says it has a private viewing, which would definitely be a plus.  I was able to see everything I wanted to with the warriors and got great access for photos, but not without a little pushing and shoving to worm my way into a prime viewing spot. Not having to do this would be a plus.)  Having more time in Yangshuo was also a difference maker, since this turned out to be my favorite area of China that we visited.  With three nights there, we were able to pack in all kinds of fun activities like a hike up Moon Hill, bike riding on the Li River, bamboo rafting on the Li River, touring Silver Cave, attending a cooking class (which turned out to be super fun), getting a cormorant fishing demonstration, having a Tai Chi lesson, and attending a show.  I also have to say that four internal flights in China were more than enough, LOL.  I was actually glad by the end of the trip that we weren’t adding a fifth internal flight for Hong Kong (but, again, Hong Kong is a place that I would definitely like to go). 

I suspect the panda experience might be better with ABD than with Thomson, although this is another trade-off.  With Thomson, we saw the pandas in a very natural environment, which meant we weren’t able to get too close to them (although I did end up getting some fantastic pictures).  We also did not have anyone at the Panda center accompanying us or giving us specific information about the pandas, which I would have liked.  If we had done just the pandas on that day, I might have been a little disappointed with the experience.  But part of the reason Thomson uses the panda center it does is because of its location in Bifengxia Gorge.  After seeing the pandas, we hiked back down through the gorge, which was awesome.  Very lush and green with waterfalls everywhere.  That experience kind of made the panda experience that went along with it.  In fact, the Bifengxia Gorge hike was my DD’s favorite part of our China trip!

The Thomson China itinerary has very little on your own time, which for me was a big positive, but might not be the case for everyone.  On most days, we usually had a couple of hours (or at least an hour and a half) between the end of the day’s activities and dinner, which could be used to hit the pool, shower (essential after being out in the heat all day), etc. but usually not enough time to go out and do any additional sightseeing on your own.  I personally dislike having a lot of on your own time in a group travel experience.  If I’m paying for a tour, I want to maximize my sightseeing and activity time with the tour and not have to organize additional things on my own.  But in China, I think this factor gets exacerbated. The traffic in the cities (particularly Beijing) is astounding and pedestrians do not have the right of way, to the point where I think it can be physically unsafe to venture out on your own.  We also found it surprisingly difficult to order a meal even at a Pizza Hut on our first night in Beijing when we came in a day early, due to language barriers.  I see that the ABD itinerary has an on your own afternoon in Beijing on the first day there, an on your own dinner and evening in Beijing on the second day there and another on your own afternoon in Beijing on the third day there.  From my standpoint that is a lot of on your own time in a city that I don’t think is very conducive to navigating on your own.  And we’re not a family that shies away from doing things on our own.  On our Central Europe ABD, we spent four extra days in Prague and walked all over the city, used the subway system, etc.  Likewise, in Shanghai, we walked to the subway station from our hotel and took the subway to Shanghai Disneyland on our own.  So we aren’t generally nervous about navigating a city on our own.  Beijing is just a different animal based on the incredible traffic, extremely crowded subways and significant language barriers.

That’s really all I think of in terms of significant differences between the two itineraries for China.  Again, if there is some point I haven’t addressed, or if you have specific questions, please let me know.


----------



## Cousin Orville

@Calfan  Great summary and comparison!  It sounds really cool.  I do wish we had more time in Xi'an and Guilin or Yangshuo.  There is a compromise to be made when cutting out a couple of days and going down to HK.  I really enjoyed our ABD, but the Thompson option sounds lovely.  I do wish ABD would cut back the number of guests, but I'll be surprised if what ever happens.  For me it's a plus I think because it increases the odd of having younger children to for my son to hang out with.  Out of curiosity, do you see a lot of kids under 12 on the Thompson and Nat Geo trips?  Also, how does Nat Geo handle luggage?


----------



## Calfan

Cousin Orville said:


> @Calfan  Great summary and comparison!  It sounds really cool.  I do wish we had more time in Xi'an and Guilin or Yangshuo.  There is a compromise to be made when cutting out a couple of days and going down to HK.  I really enjoyed our ABD, but the Thompson option sounds lovely.  I do wish ABD would cut back the number of guests, but I'll be surprised if what ever happens.  For me it's a plus I think because it increases the odd of having younger children to for my son to hang out with.  Out of curiosity, do you see a lot of kids under 12 on the Thompson and Nat Geo trips?  Also, how does Nat Geo handle luggage?



Cousin Orville, this was our first Thomson trip, and we had six kids, ages 7, 10 (twins), 11, 12 and 13, so a great age range for the two families.  I have not yet done a NatGeo family trip, but there are several on my list, so I can't comment on kid demographics there.  The NatGeo England Coast to Coast hiking trip was definitely geared toward adults (as will the Hiking the Emerald Isle trip that I am doing with my husband in Sept.), and probably wouldn't be good for kids, except maybe for older teens.  So far I've only been on one NatGeo trip, but the luggage handling was awesome.  There was a guide dedicated to hotel logistics and luggage.  We would leave our bags in our rooms when we left a hotel, and Kelty would move them to the next hotel so they would be waiting in our rooms when we checked in.  So nice!


----------



## Calfan

As mentioned above, while I'm not doing a trip report for the Thomson trip because this is an ABD forum, I did post pictures and some commentary throughout our trip on the site that is not to be named here (I signed up for a VPN, and it worked great).  If anyone is interested in seeing those, send me a PM here and we can figure out how to get you access.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

I've been getting the mini-updates, but it's great to hear your overall impressions. But at the same time, part of me is really bumming. The activities you describe on Thompson (the hikes, bike rides, raft trips, cooking classes, etc.) are EXACTLY what I love about family travel, and I think Thompson definitely wins for me in that category. 

I would probably cancel my ABD and do Thompson if the parks weren't such a draw for special needs DS19. I figured that would be the case when we were discussing with you whether to do Thompson with you, but reading this trip report is really tough! But for a trip like China, which I'm sure will have way more "listening to someone talk while visiting sites" time that DS is going to want, the bribery of the parks is what is probably going to get him--and us--through the day. It's a bummer though. 

The other big thing that you mention that really hits home after getting back from Greece is the on your own time and on your own meals. I'm like you--when paying the big bucks I want to maximize the touring time and not worry about food. Looking back on it, I never made the observation before, but that's how our coast to coast was, too. We only had one on our own meal and there wasn't really any on your own time. That's certainly a function of what we were doing, but I like the Thompson model better. If you factor in the extra money we spent on food for all those on your own meals, the Thompson product looks much better price wise, too. I'm so luggage paranoid, I'd prefer to deal with my own bags than put them out, too. Nat Geo was definitely the best though. That was truly tinker bell. 

One of the intangibles we often mention her on DIS with ABD is the guides. Did you love your guides? How was the one that was responsible for entertaining the kids? 

Also, did you have to tip at the end or were those included? I wish tour companies would go to an included model. I hate having to carry all that cash around, and figuring out the right amount is always awkward.


----------



## tgeorge

I like the luggage option of Nat Geo. It just seems like it would be so much easier. Get ready, pack and leave. That sounds fantastic.

I also think you're on to something CaliforniaGirl09...included tips would be best! They do this for the river cruises, correct? I thought I read that some given the number of guides. I'm sure people can give 'a little' extra if they wanted to,but it would be so much easier to not have to worry about it!


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> The other big thing that you mention that really hits home after getting back from Greece is the on your own time and on your own meals. I'm like you--when paying the big bucks I want to maximize the touring time and not worry about food. Looking back on it, I never made the observation before, but that's how our coast to coast was, too. We only had one on our own meal and there wasn't really any on your own time. That's certainly a function of what we were doing, but I like the Thompson model better. If you factor in the extra money we spent on food for all those on your own meals, the Thompson product looks much better price wise, too.



This was actually one of the major deciding factors for us when we chose to do South East Asia with Nat Geo over ABD. ABD has one whole day of on your own time in Hoi An. Uhm, I'm not paying all that money to have a full day of on my own time in Vietnam where I'm going to have to pay extra to do additional tours of an area. If I'm paying all that money to go someplace with a guided tour, I want to be touring, not being left to my own devices. If I wanted to tour on my own, I would do it myself.


----------



## kaseyC

Thank you for sharing Calfan.  It's so nice to read first hand experience with other travel companies.  

Tauck Bridges includes tips.  I loved that on our Ireland tour last summer.  I'm one of those people who will agonize over whether I over or under tipped someone.  

We are leaving Saturday for our second TB tour.  Majestic California.   After the exhaustive planning of our recent Eastern Med cruise and Greece vacation in June, I'm looking forward to leaving the details to someone else.


----------



## Calfan

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> I've been getting the mini-updates, but it's great to hear your overall impressions. But at the same time, part of me is really bumming. The activities you describe on Thompson (the hikes, bike rides, raft trips, cooking classes, etc.) are EXACTLY what I love about family travel, and I think Thompson definitely wins for me in that category.
> 
> I would probably cancel my ABD and do Thompson if the parks weren't such a draw for special needs DS19. I figured that would be the case when we were discussing with you whether to do Thompson with you, but reading this trip report is really tough! But for a trip like China, which I'm sure will have way more "listening to someone talk while visiting sites" time that DS is going to want, the bribery of the parks is what is probably going to get him--and us--through the day. It's a bummer though.
> 
> The other big thing that you mention that really hits home after getting back from Greece is the on your own time and on your own meals. I'm like you--when paying the big bucks I want to maximize the touring time and not worry about food. Looking back on it, I never made the observation before, but that's how our coast to coast was, too. We only had one on our own meal and there wasn't really any on your own time. That's certainly a function of what we were doing, but I like the Thompson model better. If you factor in the extra money we spent on food for all those on your own meals, the Thompson product looks much better price wise, too. I'm so luggage paranoid, I'd prefer to deal with my own bags than put them out, too. Nat Geo was definitely the best though. That was truly tinker bell.
> 
> One of the intangibles we often mention her on DIS with ABD is the guides. Did you love your guides? How was the one that was responsible for entertaining the kids?
> 
> Also, did you have to tip at the end or were those included? I wish tour companies would go to an included model. I hate having to carry all that cash around, and figuring out the right amount is always awkward.



I so did not mean to bum you out!! I even thought about that as I was writing some of this, but I wanted to be as honest as possible, especially for others that haven't yet made a decision about which tour company to use.  I think you are going to have a fabulous trip with ABD, and that the parks component is going to be key for DS.  I have never heard anything but glowing trip reports about ABD's trip to China.

I did really like our guides.  They definitely weren't the rah rah type that you can find with Disney, and I wouldn't characterize either as bubbly (a la Hanni) or goofy (a la Zoe), but they were very friendly, easy to talk to and have conversations with and happy to answer any kind of question and to impart their extensive knowledge about China.  Our main guide gave us some mini Chinese lessons during some of our bus time, and also passed on information on things like his experiences in the Tiananmen Square student protests, how the government works, how you get a driver's license in China, etc.  All manner of things.  He also did some of those extras that the ABD guides are known for.  When I told him that I needed to bring my passport to Shanghai Disneyland to show to our tour guide for the VIP tour, he was concerned about me having to carry my passport around and called Shanghai Disneyland for me to confirm that I really needed the passport (I did.)  He also gave us a map that he had marked with directions from the hotel to the specific subway line for us to get to Shanghai Disneyland, which we were doing on our own.  And he gave me his cell phone number and told me to call if we ran in to any trouble while we were on our own.  He gave similar help to the other family who was going on to Hong Kong.  He also gave everyone a small gift at the end of the trip.  The rafiki for the kids was also great.  He sat with the kids on the bus and brought out cards and small games to entertain them.  He also taught them a Chinese card game. 

We did have to tip our guides at the end, and Thomson provided recommended tip guidelines. I'm totally with you on this one.  It would be so much better if the tips were just included in the base price of the trip.  Thomson made it very clear, though, that all other tips throughout the trip were included in the trip price (e.g., local guides and drivers).


----------



## tgeorge

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> This was actually one of the major deciding factors for us when we chose to do South East Asia with Nat Geo over ABD. ABD has one whole day of on your own time in Hoi An. Uhm, I'm not paying all that money to have a full day of on my own time in Vietnam where I'm going to have to pay extra to do additional tours of an area. If I'm paying all that money to go someplace with a guided tour, I want to be touring, not being left to my own devices. If I wanted to tour on my own, I would do it myself.



To me, it depends. If I'm with my DH or some other friend, then maybe some OYO time would be nice. But, for a number of trips I'll be solo, and then too much OYO time would be a disadvantage. Not that I can't be alone,but I'd rather be around the group, especially in that circumstance.


----------



## distravel

Calfan,

Glad to hear that you had a great time on your Thompson China Trip. Thanks for the detailed comparison with ABD tours. My husband and I are going with ABD to China this October. I am a little concerned about the OYO time while in China. While I was very comfortable filling in OYO times on our Europe tours the idea of getting around in China's crowded cities without the ability to communicate may be a problem. If I knew the exact times that we were on our own in each city I would just hire a private guide as I have for our first day in Beijing. Where did you stay in Shanghai and how long did it take you to get to Shanghai Disneyland? Do you have any tips regarding visiting Shanghai Disneyland? Thanks.


----------



## Calfan

distravel said:


> Calfan,
> 
> Glad to hear that you had a great time on your Thompson China Trip. Thanks for the detailed comparison with ABD tours. My husband and I are going with ABD to China this October. I am a little concerned about the OYO time while in China. While I was very comfortable filling in OYO times on our Europe tours the idea of getting around in China's crowded cities without the ability to communicate may be a problem. If I knew the exact times that we were on our own in each city I would just hire a private guide as I have for our first day in Beijing. Where did you stay in Shanghai and how long did it take you to get to Shanghai Disneyland? Do you have any tips regarding visiting Shanghai Disneyland? Thanks.



We stayed at the Regal Shanghai East Asia Hotel, which is in the French Concession. Not my favorite hotel or location of the trip. We took the subway from the hotel to Shanghai Disneyland. Door to door, I'd say it was about an hour and a half to the park, including walking from the hotel to the subway, the subway ride itself, walking to the park on the other end and clearing two separate lines, one for security and another to enter the park. The subway in Shanghai is very easy to use, as there is an English version on the ticket machines, and all of the stations are listed in both Chinese and English. We did a Premier VIP tour on our first day in the park, which was expensive but key in enabling us to get on all of the rides, since the more popular rides had really long wait times (120 to 150 minutes).  We were able to Fast Pass Tron on our second day, but by the time we were eligible for a second fast pass, fast pass distribution for Roaring Rapids and Soaring Over the Horizon had already ended for the day (around 1 pm).  Pirates of the Caribbean Battle for the Sunken Treasure had shorter wait times (30 to 40 minutes) and is a fantastic ride. My favorites were Tron (way cool), Pirates, Roaring Rapids and Soaring. The Crystal Grotto ride is very cute as well.  We waited about 50 minutes to do the Snow White enchanted story walk through in the castle, and felt it was worth it. The castle is very impressive. The Alice in Wonderland maze is with doing too. Let me know if you have any specific questions, and I'll try to answer.


----------



## distravel

Calfan said:


> We stayed at the Regal Shanghai East Asia Hotel, which is in the French Concession. Not my favorite hotel or location of the trip. We took the subway from the hotel to Shanghai Disneyland. Door to door, I'd say it was about an hour and a half to the park, including walking from the hotel to the subway, the subway ride itself, walking to the park on the other end and clearing two separate lines, one for security and another to enter the park. The subway in Shanghai is very easy to use, as there is an English version on the ticket machines, and all of the stations are listed in both Chinese and English. We did a Premier VIP tour on our first day in the park, which was expensive but key in enabling us to get on all of the rides, since the more popular rides had really long wait times (120 to 150 minutes).  We were able to Fast Pass Tron on our second day, but by the time we were eligible for a second fast pass, fast pass distribution for Roaring Rapids and Soaring Over the Horizon had already ended for the day (around 1 pm).  Pirates of the Caribbean Battle for the Sunken Treasure had shorter wait times (30 to 40 minutes) and is a fantastic ride. My favorites were Tron (way cool), Pirates, Roaring Rapids and Soaring. The Crystal Grotto ride is very cute as well.  We waited about 50 minutes to do the Snow White enchanted story walk through in the castle, and felt it was worth it. The castle is very impressive. The Alice in Wonderland maze is with doing too. Let me know if you have any specific questions, and I'll try to answer.



Thanks for the info! Just picked up our visas from the Chinese consulate in NYC today so starting to get excited for the upcoming trip. Do you think we will be able to buy two entry tickets each to the park thus doubling our number of fastpasses? I know they check your passport so I'm not sure it would be allowed. May try anyway. Would love to see as much as possible in one day during our short return trip to Shanghai before heading home ( The 2016 ABD China trip ends in Hong Kong). I am hoping ABD will surprise us with a trip to the park on our free afternoon in Shanghai with a bonus handful of fastpasses but I didn't realize the park is so far from the city center. 

Did you visit any of the Watertowns near Shanghai? We plan to do a day trip to Suzhou and Tongli Water Village from Shanghai in lieu of another day at Disneyland.


----------



## Calfan

distravel said:


> Thanks for the info! Just picked up our visas from the Chinese consulate in NYC today so starting to get excited for the upcoming trip. Do you think we will be able to buy two entry tickets each to the park thus doubling our number of fastpasses? I know they check your passport so I'm not sure it would be allowed. May try anyway. Would love to see as much as possible in one day during our short return trip to Shanghai before heading home ( The 2016 ABD China trip ends in Hong Kong). I am hoping ABD will surprise us with a trip to the park on our free afternoon in Shanghai with a bonus handful of fastpasses but I didn't realize the park is so far from the city center.
> 
> Did you visit any of the Watertowns near Shanghai? We plan to do a day trip to Suzhou and Tongli Water Village from Shanghai in lieu of another day at Disneyland.



They did not check passports at the park entry (it was the VIP tour that required my passport), but I suspect they won't give you more tickets than you have people, even if you have online tickets for four people. Just like at Disneyland, they give you an actual ticket after scanning your online ticket printout.  We did not anything additional in Shangahi other than Shanghai Disneyland.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Calfan said:


> I so did not mean to bum you out!! I even thought about that as I was writing some of this, but I wanted to be as honest as possible, especially for others that haven't yet made a decision about which tour company to use.  I think you are going to have a fabulous trip with ABD, and that the parks component is going to be key for DS.  I have never heard anything but glowing trip reports about ABD's trip to China.
> 
> I did really like our guides.  They definitely weren't the rah rah type that you can find with Disney, and I wouldn't characterize either as bubbly (a la Hanni) or goofy (a la Zoe), but they were very friendly, easy to talk to and have conversations with and happy to answer any kind of question and to impart their extensive knowledge about China.  Our main guide gave us some mini Chinese lessons during some of our bus time, and also passed on information on things like his experiences in the Tiananmen Square student protests, how the government works, how you get a driver's license in China, etc.  All manner of things.  He also did some of those extras that the ABD guides are known for.  When I told him that I needed to bring my passport to Shanghai Disneyland to show to our tour guide for the VIP tour, he was concerned about me having to carry my passport around and called Shanghai Disneyland for me to confirm that I really needed the passport (I did.)  He also gave us a map that he had marked with directions from the hotel to the specific subway line for us to get to Shanghai Disneyland, which we were doing on our own.  And he gave me his cell phone number and told me to call if we ran in to any trouble while we were on our own.  He gave similar help to the other family who was going on to Hong Kong.  He also gave everyone a small gift at the end of the trip.  The rafiki for the kids was also great.  He sat with the kids on the bus and brought out cards and small games to entertain them.  He also taught them a Chinese card game.
> 
> We did have to tip our guides at the end, and Thomson provided recommended tip guidelines. I'm totally with you on this one.  It would be so much better if the tips were just included in the base price of the trip.  Thomson made it very clear, though, that all other tips throughout the trip were included in the trip price (e.g., local guides and drivers).



LOL, no I'd rather be a little bummed out and hear your perspective--going forward I think it is going to be really useful. As ABD gets away from the special touches and VIP experiences, I'm not feeling so loyal (especially after that 49). Even though I really enjoyed Greece, the bloom is still definitely off the rose. I've been using our ABD Scotland as a barometer of ABD, and the more trips I go on, the more I realize that is not the way the ABD is moving and that experience isn't going to be repeated or equalled. I think we were really lucky to be on that trip when we were. It was so well rounded, with awesome hotels, tons of VIP touches, a manageable size group, and amazing guides. I think to grow ABD has moved away from the VIP/upscale/special, unique experiences to a more traditional tour model. That's fine, but for me it isn't why they stood out. 

The cynical side of me can't help thinking that the reason there seems to be so much on your own time and on your own meals in the ABD itineraries is because that is an easy way to eliminate something that most people won't notice (or care about) and increase profits. I suspect that's also why they take down the previous year's itineraries when they post the new ones. It makes it harder to compare. The increasing of on your own time and meals also gives them an ability to make their prices look more competitive or stay below a certain price threshold. Ditto for why they don't include the tip. That extra $500 at least pp for the Greece ABD doesn't make it as attractive price-wised. For example, the Scotland trip we paid for on opening day was under $5000 pp with incentives. That trip was one day longer than now, including another night at a hotel, more meals, and a private airplane ride to Lewis. There are a number of other changes as well. Someone who is just looking at price though will see that it's still opening in the $5000 range not realizing all the things that have been eliminated.  

Love hearing about the guides, too. They sound more in the vein of Mary who we had on our last ABD trip. She was great.


----------



## BluesTraveler

Calfan, thank you so much, this is incredibly helpful.


----------



## Rapunzellover

CaliforniaGirl-  the previous itineraries are not taken down.  They are on the site under rates and dates, under the section that covers that *previous itinerary clause.  Difficult to find, yes, but still there for comparing.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Rapunzellover said:


> CaliforniaGirl-  the previous itineraries are not taken down.  They are on the site under rates and dates, under the section that covers that *previous itinerary clause.  Difficult to find, yes, but still there for comparing.


Sorry, I should have been more specific--I did know those were there. But I think they are only up as long as those trips are still running (i.e. 2016 itineraries are up for 2016 trips that haven't gone), and as soon as those trips are done they take it down, right? In other words, there's only a small window to compare and someone has to be pretty determined, LOL. It is hidden! The links to the old trips (PDF) that I've had in the past didn't work or took me to the new itinerary. I've thought about downloading a bunch of them to compare year to year to see how things get whittled away. Unfortunately, I didn't download the PDFs of all my trips--I wanted to compare the Ireland trip we took in 2007 to what they do now (someone had mentioned the ring of kerry, and I thought we'd done that). I actually have my book somewhere, I should just go try to find it!


----------



## tgeorge

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> Sorry, I should have been more specific--I did know those were there. But I think they are only up as long as those trips are still running (i.e. 2016 itineraries are up for 2016 trips that haven't gone), and as soon as those trips are done they take it down, right? In other words, there's only a small window to compare and someone has to be pretty determined, LOL. It is hidden! The links to the old trips (PDF) that I've had in the past didn't work or took me to the new itinerary. I've thought about downloading a bunch of them to compare year to year to see how things get whittled away. Unfortunately, I didn't download the PDFs of all my trips--I wanted to compare the Ireland trip we took in 2007 to what they do now (someone had mentioned the ring of kerry, and I thought we'd done that). I actually have my book somewhere, I should just go try to find it!



That's a great idea. Print off the itineraries to keep. Never thought of that,but it would be helpful I'm sure


----------



## Calfan

I thought of a few more points that I should have made in my Thomson vs. ABD comparison post:

One big negative about Thomson that still galls me every time I think about it is that they don't take credit cards for the balance payment.  The deposit can be paid by credit card, but not the final payment in full.  (Or rather, you can use a credit card, but Thomson charges a 3% fee to do so.)  It KILLED me to write the check for the balance of our China trip.  All I could think about were the foregone miles/points, which would have been significant with that balance, especially with my Chase Sapphire Preferred card that gives double points for travel expenses.  I even ran the math more than once to see if it was worth it to use the credit card and pay the fee, but each time it was clear that this would result in paying way too much per point.  This is actually a pretty significant difference maker to me.  If I were choosing between comparable small group itineraries, say Thomson and NatGeo, I would almost certainly go in the direction of the company (NatGeo) that will let me pay for my whole trip with a credit card.  I have some hope, however, that Thomson might change this policy.  A few weeks ago, I participated in an interview with a company that is helping Thomson redesign its website.  I made the point several times that I think it is a competitive disadvantage for Thomson not to accept credit cards for the balance payment and that it might dissuade me from taking a Thomson trip in the future if there were a comparable alternative to choose.  Hopefully that hit home.

Another difference between Thomson and ABD is that our Thomson guides did not eat with us at meals.  We actually asked them about this, and they said it had to do with needing to closely supervise the kitchens at the restaurants to make sure we were getting exactly what the guides had ordered for us (all of the Chinese meals were family style; as an aside, we had some pretty funny moments related to Lazy Susan etiquette throughout the trip!).  So I'm not sure if this is typical of all Thomson trips, or maybe just China where kitchen supervision is more important.  On the one hand, it would have been nice to have the guides share our meals so we could get to know them even better. On the other hand, with such a small group, there was ample time to talk to the guides outside of meals, so this didn't really feel like a missed opportunity.  It also gave us the opportunity to talk about our experiences on the trip without having to be sensitive to the guides' feelings.

Another thing I wanted to point out is that I really like how Thomson coordinates its trips pre-departure.  Similar to NatGeo, as soon as you book, you are put in contact with a person at Thomson who acts as trip coordinator for your particular departure.  You can dialog with that person by email or phone to ask any questions, send in requested information (like flight arrangements), etc.  Our China trip coordinator also handled the arrangements for our pre-night in Beijing and our post-nights in Shanghai.  It is really nice to have a dedicated contact at the tour company who is very knowledgeable about the itinerary.  I much prefer this to needing to call ABD and getting a different vacationista each time (some of whom seem more knowledgeable and helpful than others) or having to go through a TA for everything.  And you can end up building relationships with your coordinator.  For my NatGeo hiking trip in Ireland this Sept., we have the same trip coordinator as on the England Coast to Coast trip CaliforniaGirl09 and I did last year. 

The last thing I want to point out is that Thomson has some pretty generous early booking and repeat traveler discounts.  We got a $500 per person discount for booking our China trip soon after the itineraries were released.


----------



## Calfan

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> LOL, no I'd rather be a little bummed out and hear your perspective--going forward I think it is going to be really useful. As ABD gets away from the special touches and VIP experiences, I'm not feeling so loyal (especially after that 49). Even though I really enjoyed Greece, the bloom is still definitely off the rose. I've been using our ABD Scotland as a barometer of ABD, and the more trips I go on, the more I realize that is not the way the ABD is moving and that experience isn't going to be repeated or equalled. I think we were really lucky to be on that trip when we were. It was so well rounded, with awesome hotels, tons of VIP touches, a manageable size group, and amazing guides. I think to grow ABD has moved away from the VIP/upscale/special, unique experiences to a more traditional tour model. That's fine, but for me it isn't why they stood out.
> 
> The cynical side of me can't help thinking that the reason there seems to be so much on your own time and on your own meals in the ABD itineraries is because that is an easy way to eliminate something that most people won't notice (or care about) and increase profits. I suspect that's also why they take down the previous year's itineraries when they post the new ones. It makes it harder to compare. The increasing of on your own time and meals also gives them an ability to make their prices look more competitive or stay below a certain price threshold. Ditto for why they don't include the tip. That extra $500 at least pp for the Greece ABD doesn't make it as attractive price-wised. For example, the Scotland trip we paid for on opening day was under $5000 pp with incentives. That trip was one day longer than now, including another night at a hotel, more meals, and a private airplane ride to Lewis. There are a number of other changes as well. Someone who is just looking at price though will see that it's still opening in the $5000 range not realizing all the things that have been eliminated.
> 
> Love hearing about the guides, too. They sound more in the vein of Mary who we had on our last ABD trip. She was great.



So glad we jumped on Scotland that first year.  That is going to be a very hard trip to top, and I completely agree that it is the shining example of what an ABD can be.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Calfan said:


> I thought of a few more points that I should have made in my Thomson vs. ABD comparison post:
> 
> One big negative about Thomson that still galls me every time I think about it is that they don't take credit cards for the balance payment.  The deposit can be paid by credit card, but not the final payment in full.  (Or rather, you can use a credit card, but Thomson charges a 3% fee to do so.)  It KILLED me to write the check for the balance of our China trip.  All I could think about were the foregone miles/points, which would have been significant with that balance, especially with my Chase Sapphire Preferred card that gives double points for travel expenses.  I even ran the math more than once to see if it was worth it to use the credit card and pay the fee, but each time it was clear that this would result in paying way too much per point.  This is actually a pretty significant difference maker to me.  If I were choosing between comparable small group itineraries, say Thomson and NatGeo, I would almost certainly go in the direction of the company (NatGeo) that will let me pay for my whole trip with a credit card.  I have some hope, however, that Thomson might change this policy.  A few weeks ago, I participated in an interview with a company that is helping Thomson redesign its website.  I made the point several times that I think it is a competitive disadvantage for Thomson not to accept credit cards for the balance payment and that it might dissuade me from taking a Thomson trip in the future if there were a comparable alternative to choose.  Hopefully that hit home.
> 
> Another difference between Thomson and ABD is that our Thomson guides did not eat with us at meals.  We actually asked them about this, and they said it had to do with needing to closely supervise the kitchens at the restaurants to make sure we were getting exactly what the guides had ordered for us (all of the Chinese meals were family style; as an aside, we had some pretty funny moments related to Lazy Susan etiquette throughout the trip!).  So I'm not sure if this is typical of all Thomson trips, or maybe just China where kitchen supervision is more important.  On the one hand, it would have been nice to have the guides share our meals so we could get to know them even better. On the other hand, with such a small group, there was ample time to talk to the guides outside of meals, so this didn't really feel like a missed opportunity.  It also gave us the opportunity to talk about our experiences on the trip without having to be sensitive to the guides' feelings.
> 
> Another thing I wanted to point out is that I really like how Thomson coordinates its trips pre-departure.  Similar to NatGeo, as soon as you book, you are put in contact with a person at Thomson who acts as trip coordinator for your particular departure.  You can dialog with that person by email or phone to ask any questions, send in requested information (like flight arrangements), etc.  Our China trip coordinator also handled the arrangements for our pre-night in Beijing and our post-nights in Shanghai.  It is really nice to have a dedicated contact at the tour company who is very knowledgeable about the itinerary.  I much prefer this to needing to call ABD and getting a different vacationista each time (some of whom seem more knowledgeable and helpful than others) or having to go through a TA for everything.  And you can end up building relationships with your coordinator.  For my NatGeo hiking trip in Ireland this Sept., we have the same trip coordinator as on the England Coast to Coast trip CaliforniaGirl09 and I did last year.
> 
> The last thing I want to point out is that Thomson has some pretty generous early booking and repeat traveler discounts.  We got a $500 per person discount for booking our China trip soon after the itineraries were released.



Interesting about the meals, although I think we only ate with Chris and Mary once on our Greece ABD and they were up floating about most of the time.

OUCH on the credit card policy. That is a huge deterrent. You should have heard me grousing in Athens about not being able to use my credit card at restaurants--that hefty deposit is much more painful. BTW, I fully blame Calypso for this, LOL.


----------



## Calfan

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> Interesting about the meals, although I think we only ate with Chris and Mary once on our Greece ABD and they were up floating about most of the time.
> 
> OUCH on the credit card policy. That is a huge deterrent. You should have heard me grousing in Athens about not being able to use my credit card at restaurants--that hefty deposit is much more painful. BTW, I fully blame Calypso for this, LOL.



I definitely felt sympathy pangs when reading about your inability to use your credit card at restaurants in Athens, LOL.  I'm really hoping Thomson changes this policy because I agree that it is a big deterrent, which is a shame given the quality of their trips that have so many features I like.  As a side note, I would definitely watch use of your credit card in China.  I used ours a few times, when the guides said it was safe to do so (e.g., at the tea shop where we did our tea ceremony and at the art museum where we had our art lesson), but they definitely discouraged using credit cards at any of the markets or in shops that might have a questionable reputation.  This worked out fine because I had brought a lot of Chinese cash in the hope that I could pay a ridiculous amount to hold a baby panda.  Since this was a no go, we had Chinese cash to spare and defaulted to using cash before we ran out on the last day of our trip.  It was also really easy to use Chinese cash, because they really don't use coins, so you are almost always dealing in bills.  We did use cc's at Shanghai Disneyland and at the Beijing airport, and those seem to have been fine.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

Calfan said:


> Another difference between Thomson and ABD is that our Thomson guides did not eat with us at meals.  We actually asked them about this, and they said it had to do with needing to closely supervise the kitchens at the restaurants to make sure we were getting exactly what the guides had ordered for us (all of the Chinese meals were family style; as an aside, we had some pretty funny moments related to Lazy Susan etiquette throughout the trip!).  So I'm not sure if this is typical of all Thomson trips, or maybe just China where kitchen supervision is more important.  On the one hand, it would have been nice to have the guides share our meals so we could get to know them even better. On the other hand, with such a small group, there was ample time to talk to the guides outside of meals, so this didn't really feel like a missed opportunity.  It also gave us the opportunity to talk about our experiences on the trip without having to be sensitive to the guides' feelings.



I wonder if maybe this had something do with someone having an allergy or food sensitivity. It would make sense as to why the guides had to supervise the kitchens. This is going to be an interesting challenge for me on our upcoming Central Europe ABD. I've recently discovered I can't have dairy so meals will be interesting. 

As for guides dining with you, our guides dined with us on our Southern California trip, but only with the same guests all the time. Every meal we had the guides sat with the same 4 people, never sitting with anybody else.


----------



## Calfan

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> I wonder if maybe this had something do with someone having an allergy or food sensitivity. It would make sense as to why the guides had to supervise the kitchens. This is going to be an interesting challenge for me on our upcoming Central Europe ABD. I've recently discovered I can't have dairy so meals will be interesting.
> 
> As for guides dining with you, our guides dined with us on our Southern California trip, but only with the same guests all the time. Every meal we had the guides sat with the same 4 people, never sitting with anybody else.



Could be.  One of the girls in the other family had nut allergies (and her twin brother might also have been allergic to something).  The interesting thing is that a lot of the dishes did have nuts, and she just avoided those. But maybe the guides were making sure no nuts crept in to other dishes where they might not be expected.  Strange about your SoCal trip and the guides always sitting with the same family.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

Calfan said:


> Could be.  One of the girls in the other family had nut allergies (and her twin brother might also have been allergic to something).  The interesting thing is that a lot of the dishes did have nuts, and she just avoided those. But maybe the guides were making sure no nuts crept in to other dishes where they might not be expected.  Strange about your SoCal trip and the guides always sitting with the same family.



My guess is they were making sure that her dishes never had any nuts touch them and any utensils/boards used to prepare her meals were never used to prepare the ones with the nuts. The dish doesn't have to actually have nuts in it for her to have a reaction, it just has to be cross contaminated by an uncleaned knife or cutting board so they were making sure that didn't happen. 

The problem was these ladies were So Cal natives and Disneyland regulars. Once the lead guide found that out, that was it. That's where they sat at every meal. Nobody else really existed. They helped us when needed and everything and did the tour as they should have but that extra little bit of Disney magic was missing.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> The problem was these ladies were So Cal natives and Disneyland regulars. Once the lead guide found that out, that was it. That's where they sat at every meal. Nobody else really existed. They helped us when needed and everything and did the tour as they should have but that extra little bit of Disney magic was missing.



That's a bummer! Usually the guides are pretty good about spreading their time around the group. As the guides are such a big part of the Disney mojo, I can definitely see how some of the magic would be missing.


----------



## carpenta

I believe that the cash only policy has to do with the Greek financial crisis and 1) Banks not able / willing to get involved with handling credit card processing 2) People not willing to have large amounts of cash sitting in any bank because of the last bank run in Greece 3) Paying in cash does allow the owner to avoid taxes and not report to the government on income. Tax payments in Greece is sort of "voluntary" at best. I agree with the dining situation and sever cut backs on dining quality.

Pray for those poor souls in Munich.


----------



## Cousin Orville

distravel said:


> I am a little concerned about the OYO time while in China.



Honestly there's not much OYO time on the China ABD.  In its current form really we just had one evening free in Beijing.  There was a couple of hours in Chengdu where we had just enough time to go to a park and pick up a Starbucks mug, and a couple of hours after arriving in HK.  Probably the least OYO one I've had on any ABD.  But for China I think that's a good thing.  I like a little OYO time to balance out the scheduled activities, but the communication barrier in China makes it a little tough.  HK and probably Shanghai aren't so bad, but you should have a clear idea of where you're going to in the other cities.


----------



## calypso726

Calfan said:


> I thought of a few more points that I should have made in my Thomson vs. ABD comparison post:
> 
> One big negative about Thomson that still galls me every time I think about it is that *they don't take credit cards* for the balance payment.  The deposit can be paid by credit card, but not the final payment in full.  (Or rather, you can use a credit card, but Thomson charges a 3% fee to do so.)  It KILLED me to write the check for the balance of our China trip.  All I could think about were the foregone miles/points, which would have been significant with that balance, especially with my Chase Sapphire Preferred card that gives double points for travel expenses.  I even ran the math more than once to see if it was worth it to use the credit card and pay the fee, but each time it was clear that this would result in paying way too much per point.  This is actually a pretty significant difference maker to me.  If I were choosing between comparable small group itineraries, say Thomson and NatGeo, I would almost certainly go in the direction of the company (NatGeo) that will let me pay for my whole trip with a credit card.  I have some hope, however, that Thomson might change this policy.  A few weeks ago, I participated in an interview with a company that is helping Thomson redesign its website.  I made the point several times that I think it is a competitive disadvantage for Thomson not to accept credit cards for the balance payment and that it might dissuade me from taking a Thomson trip in the future if there were a comparable alternative to choose.  Hopefully that hit home.



Well, that just guaranteed that DH and I wouldn't even consider booking with them. Our River cruise and post Prague ABD was probably the most expensive ABD we have done so far. There is no way I would have paid that kind of money and forego the miles. Wow just thinking about it makes me queasy    For us one of the big advantages of doing tours with ABD is the fact that we can pay with Disney gift cards. At the very least I can straight up buy Disney GCs at 5 miles/points per dollar. Usually, we take it a step further and buy Target GCs at 5 miles/points per dollar, use the Target GCs to buy Disney GCs online and get an additional 5% off the cost of the trip.  So the river cruise and post Prague ABD got us 68,900 airline miles and wound up costing 5% less out of pocket and we will get an additional 2% back in the form of Disney GCs for paying through the DVA account. Our Ireland trip was not too far off the mark from the cost of ABD Ireland and I hated that we couldn't pay it with Disney GCs to get 5 miles/points per dollar. At least they took credit cards so we got 2 miles/points per dollar. Your trip sounded absolutely awesome though. I dunno, I guess if Ashford Castle only took checks for a stay there and doing the hawking I'd deal with and pay it because it was so amazing. We are SO going back there.



Calfan said:


> So glad we jumped on Scotland that first year.  That is going to be a very hard trip to top, and I completely agree that it is the shining example of what an ABD can be.



You and me both. Still my favorite trip!



CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> OUCH on the credit card policy. That is a huge deterrent. You should have heard me grousing in Athens about not being able to use my credit card at restaurants--that hefty deposit is much more painful. BTW, *I fully blame Calypso for this*, LOL.



 You're welcome *takes a bow*


----------



## carpenta

Can't you use one of those "checks" mailed to you from the credit card company which is still credited to you credit card balance account? I must get a number every month mailed to me to use for anything I want........except they want me to PAY for the financial number I enter on the dollar line on the check....lol.


----------



## distravel

Cousin Orville said:


> Honestly there's not much OYO time on the China ABD.  In its current form really we just had one evening free in Beijing.  There was a couple of hours in Chengdu where we had just enough time to go to a park and pick up a Starbucks mug, and a couple of hours after arriving in HK.  Probably the least OYO one I've had on any ABD.  But for China I think that's a good thing.  I like a little OYO time to balance out the scheduled activities, but the communication barrier in China makes it a little tough.  HK and probably Shanghai aren't so bad, but you should have a clear idea of where you're going to in the other cities.



Happy to hear that the OYO time in China is limited. It is not clear how much free time is available by just reading the ABD itinerary. I used your China trip report to plan our private day tour of Beijing and made sure to include Beihai Park and the Nine Dragon Screen. Thanks for the tips!


----------



## Cousin Orville

distravel said:


> Happy to hear that the OYO time in China is limited. It is not clear how much free time is available by just reading the ABD itinerary. I used your China trip report to plan our private day tour of Beijing and made sure to include Beihai Park and the Nine Dragon Screen. Thanks for the tips!



Glad to hear you're checking out those Beijing sites.  You won't be disappointed.  In 2014, other than the free night in Beijing after the Great Wall there wasn't enough free time to actually schedule an activity.  It's more of just a couple hours rest time.  China is the busiest ABD I've been on, but it's all wonderful.


----------



## BluesTraveler

I am so surprised to hear Thompson doesn't take credit cards.  That would definitely rule them out for us - I can't imagine not getting points for that big an outlay of $$.  They need to just build the processing fee into their business model.  Want to say thank you again, these kinds of details are what make this board so valuable.  Am glad I discovered it!!


----------



## Woodview

It just might be the  " type of Credit Card "   offered   that  was refused.

    MasterCard   & Visa       are the main ones   ... maybe   a  not well known  " Bank" or" Store Credit Card " was

 offered .


----------



## Calfan

Woodview said:


> It just might be the  " type of Credit Card "   offered   that  was refused.
> 
> MasterCard   & Visa       are the main ones   ... maybe   a  not well known  " Bank" or" Store Credit Card " was
> 
> offered .



Nope. It's credit cards in general. Believe me, I asked. And I'm sure it has to do with the processing fees for a small company, but I agree with the PP that Thomson just needs to build this in to their pricing.


----------



## disneyphx

Thanks for sharing your impressions of Thomson Calfan - glad you had a great time!
On our Thomson trip the guide always ate lunch and dinner with us - it would have been kind of awkward if he didn't because there were only 5 of us......
I had forgotten about the luggage piece - I think I assumed we took it ourselves because there were so few of us. We did wish for ABD pixie dust in getting to our room at the sprawling hotel in the Sacred Valley!
Our guide did not take any photos himself, but was always happy to play photographer.
Based on your experience I think we will take a closer look at some of their other itineraries - I am leaning towards them for Kenya/Tanzania.


----------



## Calfan

disneyphx said:


> Thanks for sharing your impressions of Thomson Calfan - glad you had a great time!
> On our Thomson trip the guide always ate lunch and dinner with us - it would have been kind of awkward if he didn't because there were only 5 of us......
> I had forgotten about the luggage piece - I think I assumed we took it ourselves because there were so few of us. We did wish for ABD pixie dust in getting to our room at the sprawling hotel in the Sacred Valley!
> Our guide did not take any photos himself, but was always happy to play photographer.
> Based on your experience I think we will take a closer look at some of their other itineraries - I am leaning towards them for Kenya/Tanzania.



Kenya/Tanzania is also on my nearer-term list (looking like 2019). When are you planning to go?


----------



## disneyphx

Kenya/Tanzania keeps shifting - thinking now 2018 or 2019 - ideally we would take 3 weeks and do a stop in Europe in the way there


----------



## Calfan

disneyphx said:


> Kenya/Tanzania keeps shifting - thinking now 2018 or 2019 - ideally we would take 3 weeks and do a stop in Europe in the way there



We'll have to stay in touch in case we end up going in the same year. Would be fun to do another trip together.


----------



## Calfan

calypso726 said:


> Well, that just guaranteed that DH and I wouldn't even consider booking with them. Our River cruise and post Prague ABD was probably the most expensive ABD we have done so far. There is no way I would have paid that kind of money and forego the miles. Wow just thinking about it makes me queasy    For us one of the big advantages of doing tours with ABD is the fact that we can pay with Disney gift cards. At the very least I can straight up buy Disney GCs at 5 miles/points per dollar. Usually, we take it a step further and buy Target GCs at 5 miles/points per dollar, use the Target GCs to buy Disney GCs online and get an additional 5% off the cost of the trip.  So the river cruise and post Prague ABD got us 68,900 airline miles and wound up costing 5% less out of pocket and we will get an additional 2% back in the form of Disney GCs for paying through the DVA account. Our Ireland trip was not too far off the mark from the cost of ABD Ireland and I hated that we couldn't pay it with Disney GCs to get 5 miles/points per dollar. At least they took credit cards so we got 2 miles/points per dollar. Your trip sounded absolutely awesome though. I dunno, I guess if Ashford Castle only took checks for a stay there and doing the hawking I'd deal with and pay it because it was so amazing. We are SO going back there.



The more I think about our China trip while telling folks at work about the trip, reviewing the photos I took, etc., I think the quality of this trip might be like you and Ashford Castle.  I'm still going to compare itineraries, and if there is a comparable itinerary offering a smaller group experience from a company that gets great reviews, would very likely default to the company that will let me pay by credit card, but despite the extreme heartburn it gave me to write that check, I think I would do it again for a Thomson trip that matches our fantastic China trip experience.  I have to say that I think this China trip probably ranks within my top three favorite trips of all time (along with Africa, which DH and I did with a company called Civilized Adventures in 2001, and our Scotland ABD); if not top three, then certainly top five.  And unlike Africa that I am dying to go back to, and Scotland that I could go back to over and over and have actually been back a couple of times since our ABD trip there in 2013, I'm not sure if I'll ever go back to mainland China.  So it isn't the destination itself that is making this trip rank so high with me.  It was just a really really well-designed trip that, for me, offered a perfect mix between seeing the "must see" sights for a comprehensive, possibly one and done trip to China and really fun activities.  And it provided the small-group experience that has become key for me.  Obviously, having only done the one Thomson trip, I can't say that all of the Thomson itineraries would offer a comparable experience.  But if so, I might just have to suck up the credit card thing, as much as it kills me to do so, LOL.


----------



## calypso726

Calfan said:


> The more I think about our China trip while telling folks at work about the trip, reviewing the photos I took, etc., I think the quality of this trip might be like you and Ashford Castle.  I'm still going to compare itineraries, and if there is a comparable itinerary offering a smaller group experience from a company that gets great reviews, would very likely default to the company that will let me pay by credit card, but despite the extreme heartburn it gave me to write that check, I think I would do it again for a Thomson trip that matches our fantastic China trip experience.  I have to say that I think this China trip probably ranks within my top three favorite trips of all time (along with Africa, which DH and I did with a company called Civilized Adventures in 2001, and our Scotland ABD); if not top three, then certainly top five.  And unlike Africa that I am dying to go back to, and Scotland that I could go back to over and over and have actually been back a couple of times since our ABD trip there in 2013, I'm not sure if I'll ever go back to mainland China.  So it isn't the destination itself that is making this trip rank so high with me.  It was just a really really well-designed trip that, for me, offered a perfect mix between seeing the "must see" sights for a comprehensive, possibly one and done trip to China and really fun activities.  And it provided the small-group experience that has become key for me.  Obviously, having only done the one Thomson trip, I can't say that all of the Thomson itineraries would offer a comparable experience.  But if so, I might just have to suck up the credit card thing, as much as it kills me to do so, LOL.



We loved Ashford Castle. So much that we will be going back to Ireland mainly to stay there and enjoy the castle. We will probably hit Northern Ireland first though and see Giant's Causeway, the dark hedges and spend a couple of days there before coming down to Ireland, visit the Aran Islands and then spend a week or so at Ashford Castle. 

We've also been back to Scotland a few times since that ABD trip with you and Californiagirl. We are actually going back again for the 4th of July weekend next year. I need to go see the fairy pools in Skye. We are planning to do China with ABD in 2018. Africa for 2019 (birthday milestone) is on my list and I'm likely to go with ABD unless I find something comparable that also has Victoria Falls and a cultural visit with the people of the Maasai. If not, I will go with ABD and add that on as a pre or post trip. Amawaterways already does a few Africa river cruises. If ABD decided to add this to their list of river cruises come 2019 then my first world vacation problems are solved LOL 

It really sounds like Thompson has a great operation going on. I really enjoyed reading your comparison and I can see how much you enjoyed the trip. If we ever do try them out with some must do itinerary someday hopefully they will be taking credit cards by then. If not, I guess I can brush up on my manufactured spending and still find a way to get miles for it. LOL


----------



## Calfan

calypso726 said:


> We loved Ashford Castle. So much that we will be going back to Ireland mainly to stay there and enjoy the castle. We will probably hit Northern Ireland first though and see Giant's Causeway, the dark hedges and spend a couple of days there before coming down to Ireland, visit the Aran Islands and then spend a week or so at Ashford Castle.
> 
> We've also been back to Scotland a few times since that ABD trip with you and Californiagirl. We are actually going back again for the 4th of July weekend next year. I need to go see the fairy pools in Skye. We are planning to do China with ABD in 2018. Africa for 2019 (birthday milestone) is on my list and I'm likely to go with ABD unless I find something comparable that also has Victoria Falls and a cultural visit with the people of the Maasai. If not, I will go with ABD and add that on as a pre or post trip. Amawaterways already does a few Africa river cruises. If ABD decided to add this to their list of river cruises come 2019 then my first world vacation problems are solved LOL
> 
> It really sounds like Thompson has a great operation going on. I really enjoyed reading your comparison and I can see how much you enjoyed the trip. If we ever do try them out with some must do itinerary someday hopefully they will be taking credit cards by then. If not, I guess I can brush up on my manufactured spending and still find a way to get miles for it. LOL



DH and I are doing a hiking trip in Ireland with NatGeo in Sept., but a family trip to Ireland is definitely in the 5-year vacation plan. We are likely to do a group tour but will definitely add on time in Northern Ireland for the Giant's Causeway. I'll have to look in to the dark hedges. And it sounds like we should also plan on a stay at Ashford Castle


----------



## calypso726

Calfan said:


> DH and I are doing a hiking trip in Ireland with NatGeo in Sept., but a family trip to Ireland is definitely in the 5-year vacation plan. We are likely to do a group tour but will definitely add on time in Northern Ireland for the Giant's Causeway. I'll have to look in to the dark hedges. And it sounds like we should also plan on a stay at Ashford Castle



Yes, yes, yes plan a stay at Ashford Castle and do the hawk walk.You get to fly the owl with the extended walk.  We stayed at both Dromoland (where ABD and Tauck go) and Ashford. There is NO comparison. Sadly Ashford isn't located close to where the itineraries take you with ABD and most other tours so it isn't a matter of choosing one castle over the other it's a location thing.


----------



## Calfan

calypso726 said:


> Yes, yes, yes plan a stay at Ashford Castle and do the hawk walk (second video). You get to fly the owl (first video) with the extended walk.  We stayed at both Dromoland (where ABD and Tauck go) and Ashford. There is NO comparison. Sadly Ashford isn't located close to where the itineraries take you with ABD and most other tours so it isn't a matter of choosing one castle over the other it's a location thing.



Very cool!!


----------



## tink1970

Oh, the hawk interactions look awesome! We loved our night in Dromoland, but am really looking forward to a visit to Ashford the next time I'm in Ireland.

Also appreciate Calfan's trip report. While DH and I have spent enough time (for us) in the Far East and it is (most definitely) not on our "to go" list, I was happy to read about Thompson and its procedures and policies. It's nice to have options.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

Calfan said:


> DH and I are doing a hiking trip in Ireland with NatGeo in Sept.



Calfan, I would definitely be interested in hearing your impressions of this trip. Don't necessarily need a trip report, just your overall impressions of the trip. We're looking at possibly doing this trip back to back with their Hiking the Highlands of Scotland trip in 2018 and would love to know your thoughts on this trip. Can't do it in 2017 as we're doing South East Asia with Nat Geo.


----------



## Calfan

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> Calfan, I would definitely be interested in hearing your impressions of this trip. Don't necessarily need a trip report, just your overall impressions of the trip. We're looking at possibly doing this trip back to back with their Hiking the Highlands of Scotland trip in 2018 and would love to know your thoughts on this trip. Can't do it in 2017 as we're doing South East Asia with Nat Geo.



Will definitely let you know.  My expectations are pretty high based on my experience with their England Coast to Coast trip.  I'd also really like to know what you think of the Southeast Asia trip. Is it the one they do with G Adventures?


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

Calfan said:


> Will definitely let you know.  My expectations are pretty high based on my experience with their England Coast to Coast trip  I'd also really like to know what you think of the Southeast Asia trip. Is it the one they do with G Adventures?



It was actually your post about doing the England Coast to Coast with Nat Geo that made me realize that Nat Geo even offered guided tours and were a comparable alternative to ABD. We're booked on the Active Adventure trip to South East Asia for Feb 2017, not the G Adventures "Journey". Here is the link to our itinerary http://www.nationalgeographicexpeditions.com/expeditions/vietnam-laos-cambodia-tour/detail Once we're back I'll be posting a blog about our trip which I'll post a link to here for anyone who's interested in reading it that way I'm not posting a trip report for a non-ABD trip in an ABD forum. We're actually flying into Ho Chi Minh 2 days early so we'll have a few days on our own and we're looking at doing a trip to the Mekong Delta and a Vietnamese cooking class before our trip even starts. All of which will be posted in my trip blog.


----------



## Calfan

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> It was actually your post about doing the England Coast to Coast with Nat Geo that made me realize that Nat Geo even offered guided tours and were a comparable alternative to ABD. We're booked on the Active Adventure trip to South East Asia for Feb 2017, not the G Adventures "Journey". Here is the link to our itinerary http://www.nationalgeographicexpeditions.com/expeditions/vietnam-laos-cambodia-tour/detail Once we're back I'll be posting a blog about our trip which I'll post a link to here for anyone who's interested in reading it that way I'm not posting a trip report for a non-ABD trip in an ABD forum. We're actually flying into Ho Chi Minh 2 days early so we'll have a few days on our own and we're looking at doing a trip to the Mekong Delta and a Vietnamese cooking class before our trip even starts. All of which will be posted in my trip blog.



This looks like a fantastic trip that I have added to my ever-expanding list.  I'll be looking forward to reading your blog.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

Calfan said:


> This looks like a fantastic trip that I have added to my ever-expanding list.  I'll be looking forward to reading your blog.



I won't be updating as we go, as you know we're very limited on what we can bring with us on the Nat Geo trips and we're not planning on bringing many of our electronics with us so I'll be writing everything down "old style" with a pen and paper while we're there and then posting it when I get home. But I'll make sure to post when I get the blog posted.


----------



## tgeorge

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> I won't be updating as we go, as you know we're very limited on what we can bring with us on the Nat Geo trips and we're not planning on bringing many of our electronics with us so I'll be writing everything down "old style" with a pen and paper while we're there and then posting it when I get home. But I'll make sure to post when I get the blog posted.


I am very excited to hear about this trip also! SE Asia has been on my list for quite some time. It will be nice to see the comparison between the Nat Geo and the ABD! 

So, Ireland and Scotland B2B, that sounds amazing! Plus, you save on airfare. Very cool


----------



## Bobo912

Short feedback on our Uniworld Castles on the Rhine cruise.  It was just wonderful.  It was a mutli-generational cruise and there were 38 kids.  Total number of guests was around 110-120, I think.  The family cruise included some kid-friendly excursions that weren't listed on the itinerary.  One difference between our Tauck cruise (and ABD too) is that this isn't a charter, so all of the crew and staff works for Uniworld.  I thought there was more interaction between the crew/staff and guests, since it wasn't guides working for one company and everybody else working for another.  And all of the crew and staff were just delightful.  Even the captain had several activities with the kids, including a kids-only dessert party.  Service was absolutely wonderful.  Food was fantastic. And there was food and drink at every turn.  If we were sailing during the afternoon, there was tea time and on the day we sailed by the castles there was a sausage/pretzel/beer buffet in the sky lounge (enclosed lounge on the top deck) between breakfast and lunch. I would have taken this cruise just for the dining experience each evening! Excursion were also good. I could have used one or two fewer walking tours and something a little more interactive, but the walking tours were a good introduction to the cities/towns and there was plenty of time to do things on your own.  Something I think is fairly unique was that there is room service on the ship and there are washing machines available for guests.  Last bit of feedback is related to the itinerary in general and not to Uniworld.  My apologies to anyone from the area, but even with the lovely towns and all the castles, IMO the location just doesn't compare with Vienna, Salzburg, Budapest, etc. on the Danube cruise.  Regardless, we loved the cruise and had a fantastic time


----------



## Calfan

Bobo912 said:


> Short feedback on our Uniworld Castles on the Rhine cruise.  It was just wonderful.  It was a mutli-generational cruise and there were 38 kids.  Total number of guests was around 110-120, I think.  The family cruise included some kid-friendly excursions that weren't listed on the itinerary.  One difference between our Tauck cruise (and ABD too) is that this isn't a charter, so all of the crew and staff works for Uniworld.  I thought there was more interaction between the crew/staff and guests, since it wasn't guides working for one company and everybody else working for another.  And all of the crew and staff were just delightful.  Even the captain had several activities with the kids, including a kids-only dessert party.  Service was absolutely wonderful.  Food was fantastic. And there was food and drink at every turn.  If we were sailing during the afternoon, there was tea time and on the day we sailed by the castles there was a sausage/pretzel/beer buffet in the sky lounge (enclosed lounge on the top deck) between breakfast and lunch. I would have taken this cruise just for the dining experience each evening! Excursion were also good. I could have used one or two fewer walking tours and something a little more interactive, but the walking tours were a good introduction to the cities/towns and there was plenty of time to do things on your own.  Something I think is fairly unique was that there is room service on the ship and there are washing machines available for guests.  Last bit of feedback is related to the itinerary in general and not to Uniworld.  My apologies to anyone from the area, but even with the lovely towns and all the castles, IMO the location just doesn't compare with Vienna, Salzburg, Budapest, etc. on the Danube cruise.  Regardless, we loved the cruise and had a fantastic time



Great to hear this positive feedback about Uniworld. We are seriously considering a European holiday markets river cruise with them in Dec. 2018.  Thanks so much for posting.


----------



## BluesTraveler

Thank you for posting!  I confess I hadn't heard of them.  This board has been such a valuable source of travel tips and reviews, I only wish I'd discovered it several years ago.


----------



## WendyYoung

kaseyC said:


> Thank you for sharing Calfan.  It's so nice to read first hand experience with other travel companies.
> 
> Tauck Bridges includes tips.  I loved that on our Ireland tour last summer.  I'm one of those people who will agonize over whether I over or under tipped someone.
> 
> We are leaving Saturday for our second TB tour.  Majestic California.   After the exhaustive planning of our recent Eastern Med cruise and Greece vacation in June, I'm looking forward to leaving the details to someone else.


How was the bed situation with a family of three? It's my biggest concern re: travel overseas with two parents and one teenage boy.


----------



## kaseyC

WendyYoung said:


> How was the bed situation with a family of three? It's my biggest concern re: travel overseas with two parents and one teenage boy.



With Tauck Bridges for Ireland last year since they booked us into Junior suites with a rollaway,  The Conrad in Dublin had 2 doubles plus the roll away, Castlemartyr in Cork had a King, a sofa and a rollaway and Dromoland castle had a 2 doubles and a rollaway.  

We also travel quite a bit on our own in Europe as a family of 5 and we usually book apartments or apartment style hotels.  Since our girls are now older we have also booked a triple for the 3 girls and a double for me and my husband.


----------



## kmc33

Has anyone done a river cruise with 3?  It sounds like the cabins are not that large. ABD and Tauck both offer some cabins for 3.  On Tauck I noticed that the price per person for the cabin that accommodates 3 is higher than getting 2 cabins in the category that does not charge a single supplement.  But not sure if that is the best thing for a family vacation... for DS to be by himself in a room.  For the family Uniworld sailings, ABD or Tauck, could anyone who has gone tell me if there were many older teens?  DH thinks our DS (high school junior) would be bored.  If there are other teens, he would enjoy that more than spending the whole trip with just DH and me 
Thanks!


----------



## Bobo912

kmc33 said:


> Has anyone done a river cruise with 3?  It sounds like the cabins are not that large. ABD and Tauck both offer some cabins for 3.  On Tauck I noticed that the price per person for the cabin that accommodates 3 is higher than getting 2 cabins in the category that does not charge a single supplement.  But not sure if that is the best thing for a family vacation... for DS to be by himself in a room.  For the family Uniworld sailings, ABD or Tauck, could anyone who has gone tell me if there were many older teens?  DH thinks our DS (high school junior) would be bored.  If there are other teens, he would enjoy that more than spending the whole trip with just DH and me
> Thanks!



There were a lot of teens on both our Tauck and Uniworld cruises.  None of them seemed bored.  My DS was 12 on first cruise and 16 on the one we took this summer.  He loved them, but of course, it depends on the kid. With Tauck anyone under 18 has to be booked in a cabin with an adult.  I'm not sure about Uniworld.  I don't remember reading that, but it could be the same with them.


----------



## carpenta

We did the Danube Tauck Bridges river boat cruise and was in a three person suite. It is a huge room as far as river boat rooms go and  the bath has a large shower as well as a bath tub. Really nice room. Our cruise there were a spectrum of teens from 12 through 17. Everyone got along really well and there was special teen activities.


----------



## Ava

Has anyone here been on a Rick Steves tour? I used to love his TV show on PBS and only recently discovered that he has a tour company as well. They are budget tours (older non-chain hotels, you carry your own luggage, etc.) and they only have a couple of family tours, but it seems like an interesting option at a lower price point than ABD & many of the other companies mentioned here.


----------



## aggiedog

I'm looking at doing a trip with a friend, and don't need family style activities, or even the level of luxury my dh prefers, though I'm definitely over the hostel stage in my life. I do like the idea of being at least partially guided, with travel organized by someone else.  I'm looking at the Rick Steve tours and also Road Scholar.  I'm 48, and have no problem traveling with old folks if the pace is not sedate.  (Road Scholar has some mountain hiking trips I couldn't begin to do!)  I was hoping the travelers here would have some recommendations on companies in the mid range market.  We'd like to go somewhere in Europe, sometime between January and April, preferably not too cold and wet, so I'm open to country specific agencies as well.

Mostly we just want to travel _somewhere,_ without breaking the bank.


----------



## Woodview

It will be    Winter.    & Snow  weather     in a lot of places.

                      BUT

    Check out  The Netherlands    & going  to  Belgium     & along coast  of  France  .

          Spain & Portugal  And   the coast   From  France  to  Italy

 Check out         Holland International


----------



## aggiedog

That's where I was leaning, the Med area, though we're open to anywhere that isn't dismal.  It looks like Holland International is associated with Thomson Travel.  The Holland site is all in Dutch, and the UK Thomson site originates all flights from the UK for package trips. Otherwise, it's just hotel or resort reservations.  Am I missing something?


----------



## sayhello

I know folks who have traveled with Road Scholar, and really love it.  But I don't know too much detail, and they are on the elderly side of things.   

Sayhello


----------



## AquamarineSteph

I have now traveled with ABD, CIE, and Tauck.  (Not the Tauck Bridges program.)   We're doing a trip next year with G Adventures (co branded through National Geographic), but we're also doing an ABD next year.

I like comparing trips and trip providers.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

G Adventures is partnered with Nat Geo on their "Journeys" trips, which is their least formal level of touring. You would have some guided touring in the morning after a group breakfast and then they would let you go off on your own. They also are the least expensive of the Nat Geo offerings.


----------



## acndis

We are looking at Austin Adventures for Scotland.  Their trip is 7 days which would allow us to do Edinburgh and London on our own at a lower price.  I have run the gamut on this. I am not crazy about the ABD itinerary.  It looks like a lot of touring and travel.  I really liked the Nat Geo itinerary but it is now more expensive than ABD w/o the Edinburgh add-on.  I've been really impressed with Austin Adventures.  They were really responsive and even though I am looking at Summer 2018, they are looking into prices and dates before their release for me.  The AA groups are only 18 for the family adventures and they seem to not have as many of the cultural experiences the ABD offers (those were the kind of things we were okay with missing) but instead has lots of activities.  I'll post as I find out more!  The prices are pretty great if they have a destination you are interested in!


----------



## carpenta

We are doing Nat. Geo Family to Iceland next year and then Tauck to Costa Rica at Christmas. Maybe ABD in 2018.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

We are doing the Rhine River Cruise with ABD in June.  If I hadn't already booked it before we left for our China trip we wouldn't be doing it.  I had some issues with ABD in China (nothing to do with the guides, rather ABDs policies pertaining to assisting guests after the official tour ends -- which is, btw, no help at all, even if a category 5 typhoon is tracking to cross your intended flight path; you are ON YOUR OWN, even if you book additional nights with ABD) and other issues, to a lesser extent, on the Italy / Switzerland trip (which were no fault of the guides, who were AMAZING).

Dd and I are flying from Amsterdam (where our cruise ends) to Johannesburg to do our own safari / Cape Town trip (ds has to fly home from Amsterdam as he works full time and can't get additional time off).  We will spend 3 nights at King's Camp in the Timbavati (famous for the rare white lion), then fly to the western section of the famous Sabi Sands Game Reserve for 4 nights at Leopard Hills.  From there we will fly to Cape Town and stay for 3 nights at the amazing One & Only resort on the V&A waterfront.  We will have 2 days of private guided tours with a driver and guide; one day will be a half day shopping (my request) and half day in wine country (dd would be bored to tears if I did a full day wine tour), the second day will be Table Mountain, Cape of Good Hope, Boulder Beach, etc. (not Robbens Island because this is a 3 hour tour that, while interesting, I didn't think we had the time for).  This is a luxury trip (all 5* lodges with upgraded accommodations), including internal flights and all meals (and laundry on the safari portion) and costs $2,000.00 less than the S. Africa ABD.  I didn't like the ABD itinerary (Kapama is a fenced reserve that doesn't border Kruger NP) and all the S. Africa tours were sold out before July 1st of this year.  I hope dd won't be bored since we won't be traveling with other families, but the lodges we are staying at are all family-friendly.  Frankly she wouldn't have had a good time on the Italy / Switzerland trip since there weren't any teenagers close to her age (the oldest by a few years was 12 and dd is 14).

A few of the major things I like about planning my own travel: business class seats for all internal flights if possible (I can't stand being crammed into economy class), we always upgrade our rooms a few categories and having complete control of the itinerary. 

On the river cruise we have one of the few cabins for 3 people.  I am hoping that it is big enough for us as we are all tall and used to large, open spaces.  It will be nice to travel with both of my kids together as well.

Another small thing about ABD that bothers me a bit is that we aren't staying a night in Basel before the cruise (there is really nothing to do there, so we are flying into Zurich a day ahead, touring there, staying in a very nice suite at a lovely hotel (the Schweitzerhof across from the train station), then taking the train to Basel the day the cruise starts); I asked ABD if we could take the shuttle from the hotel to the ship.  They said that since we aren't paying the exorbitant price to stay at the hotel in Basel we couldn't take one of the shuttle buses to the ship.  Not a huge deal, but it leaves me scratching me head wondering why they would have an issue with that.  We can just as easily take a cab from the train station to the ship, but it still seems strange to me, especially since we are paying a small fortune for the cruise.  Oh well.  

I think we are done with ABD, at least for the foreseeable future.  We are planning on doing Antarctica with A&K in December, 2017 and returning to Africa (to Tanzania for the great migration and the Ngorongoro Crater) in 2018 -- again on our own.  It was a great product for us for a few years and we had some memorable trips, but it is time for us to move on.


----------



## carpenta

............as far as pre night hotel stay there are other companies that offer this free if you are a returning guest. It is funny how it is usually the "little things" that bother people.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

carpenta said:


> ............as far as pre night hotel stay there are other companies that offer this free if you are a returning guest. It is funny how it is usually the "little things" that bother people.



I totally agree!  For instance, did you know that when A&K quotes a pre or post trip extension on their website, it just an estimate?  When I said I wanted to book the extension, they said "we need to get you a quotation of the cost".  I was thinking what the heck?  It ended up costing DOUBLE what the "estimate" on the website was.  No thanks.  But the dates work, the itinerary is great and we really, really want to go to Antarctica, so A&K it is!  December / January are the only times of the year when you can go and it is falls over the school break.  Plus it is a family trip and they are offering a $1,500 pp discount.  I can hardly wait!


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

carpenta said:


> It is funny how it is usually the "little things" that bother people.



There were small things that were pushing us to start looking at other companies but there were 2 major incidents on our most recent trip that put the final nails in the ABD coffin and buried it six feet under.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> There were small things that were pushing us to start looking at other companies but there were 2 major incidents on our most recent trip that put the final nails in the ABD coffin and buried it six feet under.



When the little things start to add up and you are no longer "feeling the love", then I agree that it is time to move on.

I did speak to a Customer Experience Executive (or some title like that) after our China trip and he seemed very sympathetic to what happened.  I strongly feel that ABD should have been willing to help us secure hotel accommodations if our flight was delayed.  And also at least offer to reimburse us for our cab to the airport when we moved our flight up several hours (instead of saying, "sorry we can't change the time of your ride").  I felt the attitude from the representative at their "emergency contact number" in the US was "so sad, too bad, have a nice day".   I hate to harp on this, but I really was extremely disappointed in ABD -- I mean, why do they even have such a number if they don't give a darn?  What if we ended up stranded in Hong Kong and the Peninsula had no rooms for our unplanned night there?  How would we have found another hotel in a decent area and gotten there with our baggage?  There are too many "what ifs" in this scenario.  We ended up very lucky to have the AMAZING agent at AmEx Platinum travel on our side; she worked tirelessly to get us on a flight back to mainland China earlier in the day AND got most of our original ticket with Cathay Pacific refunded (we ended up flying first class on Hong Kong Air, which btw is fabulous).  Huge kudos also to the concierge at the Hong Kong Peninsula who went above and beyond to help us as well.  ABD, who we paid over $18,000.00 to for the trip, did nothing and I felt was quite rude as well.

Perhaps we will travel with ABD again, but definitely not in 2017.  It's not a "one size fits all" company and I feel that it's time for us to explore other options.  

On a positive note, the guides on our Italy / Switzerland trip were amazing and it was a magical trip.  But the sour taste left in my mouth from our China experience over powers that feeling, at least for now.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> When the little things start to add up and you are no longer "feeling the love", then I agree that it is time to move on.
> 
> I did speak to a Customer Experience Executive (or some title like that) after our China trip and he seemed very sympathetic to what happened.  I strongly feel that ABD should have been willing to help us secure hotel accommodations if our flight was delayed.  And also at least offer to reimburse us for our cab to the airport when we moved our flight up several hours (instead of saying, "sorry we can't change the time of your ride").  I felt the attitude from the representative at their "emergency contact number" in the US was "so sad, too bad, have a nice day".   I hate to harp on this, but I really was extremely disappointed in ABD -- I mean, why do they even have such a number if they don't give a darn?  What if we ended up stranded in Hong Kong and the Peninsula had no rooms for our unplanned night there?  How would we have found another hotel in a decent area and gotten there with our baggage?  There are too many "what ifs" in this scenario.  We ended up very lucky to have the AMAZING agent at AmEx Platinum travel on our side; she worked tirelessly to get us on a flight back to mainland China earlier in the day AND got most of our original ticket with Cathay Pacific refunded (we ended up flying first class on Hong Kong Air, which btw is fabulous).  Huge kudos also to the concierge at the Hong Kong Peninsula who went above and beyond to help us as well.  ABD, who we paid over $18,000.00 to for the trip, did nothing and I felt was quite rude as well.
> 
> Perhaps we will travel with ABD again, but definitely not in 2017.  It's not a "one size fits all" company and I feel that it's time for us to explore other options.
> 
> On a positive note, the guides on our Italy / Switzerland trip were amazing and it was a magical trip.  But the sour taste left in my mouth from our China experience over powers that feeling, at least for now.



For us there were little things but it was the big things that finally did it. One of the big things could have put me in a hospital in Austria thanks to the actions of the guides themselves. This is why I bypassed customer service and went straight to ABD management directly. This is not a customer service issue.


----------



## acndis

We have booked Austin Adventures for Scotland.  They offered us the 2017 rate for our 2018 date.  It was around $6000 below the ABD 2017 current rates.  The trip will go with 4 people (we have three) and they let us choose the dates.  Only downside, they require 25% down.  Luckily, it's been a good month! 

It's far in the future but I will post the let everyone know how it continues to go with them.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

I've started to post my trip blog for my most recent ABD Trip on my own personal travel blog. If anyone is interested in reading it, please feel free to comment here and let me know or message me directly and I will send you the link. I'm not going to post the link directly here in the forum as it's not a Disney love fest blog and I really don't want to get slammed by people who read it and get upset because I'm not tooting Disney's horn all the time. This is my opinion on my most recent experience, the good, the bad and the ugly and some of that ugly may be related to Disney and it may be related to some of my tour companions. So please be warned. I am more than happy to share my blog if you're interested but don't complain if you don't like what you read as I've given fair warning.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

I would love to read it


----------



## Rapunzellover

Send me a link too.


----------



## YodasMom

Would love to read it, too!


----------



## RebelHawk

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> I've started to post my trip blog for my most recent ABD Trip on my own personal travel blog. If anyone is interested in reading it, please feel free to comment here and let me know or message me directly and I will send you the link. I'm not going to post the link directly here in the forum as it's not a Disney love fest blog and I really don't want to get slammed by people who read it and get upset because I'm not tooting Disney's horn all the time. This is my opinion on my most recent experience, the good, the bad and the ugly and some of that ugly may be related to Disney and it may be related to some of my tour companions. So please be warned. I am more than happy to share my blog if you're interested but don't complain if you don't like what you read as I've given fair warning.



Please post the link. I think all views are important as it gives a better perspective of a provider.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

I'd like the link too!


----------



## Grifdog22

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> There were small things that were pushing us to start looking at other companies but there were 2 major incidents on our most recent trip that put the final nails in the ABD coffin and buried it six feet under.



While I've also had issues with the areas that were specifically within the scope of an ABD tour, and have not been quiet about them, those were things like the airport pickup taking us to the wrong place in a country where we did not speak the language, and simply dropping us many miles from where we were supposed to be (Peru) , or the key portion of a program we came on the trip to see simply dropped with no explanation (Hayden Valley 1/2 day tour in Winter Wonderland), the problems were rare and pale in comparison to the things ABD does right, again, within the scope of a trip.  Having now travelled with lots of other tour companies as well, it is my family's opinion that the pluses of ABD overall far outweigh the individual issues we have seen with us and others. I didn't think I would ever get over missing the Hayden Valley tour at Yellowstone.  I travelled back with another tour company for a similar tour, and they only had one guide.  Our Hayden Valley tour there was cut short when one of our fellow guests got sick.  With ABD, I believe that when that happens, the tour continues with one guide for the moment.   I guess my seeing the Hayden Valley in Yellowstone in winter was just not to be! So I got over my disappointment and will return one day on my own.

People that complain that Disney did not assist them in issues arising with transportation before a trip starts need to take a bit of personal responsibility.  Disney recommends, and many of us pay a lot of money for it, trip insurance on those things outside of the scope of the Disney trip program. That is specifically what that is supposed to do. I really thank this board community for their postings as I would NEVER have found or gotten the broad insurance coverage I feel I needed without the help, recommendations and stories from the poster's to this board. I recall one poster who was quarantined upon her arrival in China - again, there is only so much Disney can do to assist on things outside the scope of their program, but they generally go far above what most other travel companies offer, and I believe they did so in that case too.  I've been on a trip that cost nearly x3 what ABD provides, and those trips do provide more assistance than ABD for many things, but you are absolutely paying for it, but more importantly, it is clear within the scope of the travel agreement what they are providing!  

I used to bristle a little as I read the detailed travel agreement ABD puts out and requires guests to sign as a condition of accepting their reservation, but now I also see why they do it.  There is always a level of personal responsibility for people.  Some Americans more and more don't seem to get that.  

ABD makes clear that they cannot "take care" of an individual that requires constant assistance, and that individual should probably have a full time nanny to assist them, whether the limitations are physical or otherwise, if that level of care is demanded. 

I have always understood that this board is generally for those that are taking or looking at a trip, and the sharing of good and bad experiences, so others can learn and work within the terrific community sharing that the Disboards has become for trips and adventures.  It is invaluable. I travelled with another tour company based on this specific blog's comments.  They were very good; but the "sparkle" was not quite there for us.  But I don't think when this board's sponsor, Dreams Unlimited, (An amazing travel company BTW) set this blog up, they intended it to be a bashing blog.

There is adventure out there!  The glass is indeed at least half full.


----------



## calypso726

Very well said Grifdog. This board and forum has helped us a great deal too. Many itineraries that were not on my radar become must do's thanks to the trip reports. The advice on planning and packing has definitely saved us some frustrations. I do appreciate seeing both the good comments and the critical ones as well. No company is infallible and all will drop the ball sometimes simply due to law of averages and the statistical probability. That said, I think it is always important to view things from all perspectives. I have posted comments that may be viewed as criticism regarding hikes with ABD. But I also stress they were highlights for me and were only challenging because I am in my late 40's, asthmatic and lugging an extra 30 pounds. I try to paint a full picture. I'll read negative reviews about something on TripAdvisor and still won't allow that to color my opinion without a full picture. After all there are some people who can't be pleased no matter what. They could win the lottery and complain about the fact that they now need a lawyer and accountants.

I think people that criticize ABD on this board may do so mostly with the hope that they (ABD) will know about challenges or disappointments in order to address them and change for the better. We all know they read the  Disboards.

I also think knowing about other options is important. I am very pro ABD and will happily travel with them over anyone else simply because my experiences have been outstanding! AbD doesn't go everywhere on my bucket list. If I want to go somewhere they don't it is important to me to see feedback about other companies from people who have had the ABD experience. I feel their feedback and positive experiences have more of an impact for me than someone who has not had that ABD experience.


----------



## BluesTraveler

I would be interested in the link.


----------



## sayhello

I agree, it's a good thing to hear both the good and the bad.  Forewarned is forearmed.  If knowing about something that went wrong for you can prepare someone else to deal with a similar issue in the future, it's totally worth it.  I just feel people who do report negative things need to provide a certain amount of detail as to what went wrong, and the context.   I'm sure several of you remember knewton, who came on and said one of his guides TOTALLY RUINED his BSM ABD for him, and berated that guide (by name) as horrid and incompetent.  But he *refused* to give us ANY details as to what went wrong, and we eventually shut him down, because that was not useful.

Nobody wants a Forum that's all rah-rah and flowers.  You can't plan & prepare & make informed decisions if all you hear is what went right.

JMHO, YMMV.

I'd like to get the link.

Sayhello


----------



## Calfan

I also think you should go ahead and post the link, Cinderella's Sleeper.  Those who don't want to read anything negative about Disney or ABD don't have to read it, and those who appreciate a balanced perspective and the opportunity to trouble shoot similar issues before their next ABD (or other group trip) can choose to read.

I also realized I never reported back on our second experience with National Geographic after DH and I completed NatGeo's Hiking the Emerald Isle in September.  This was another fabulous trip, and I continue to be high on National Geographic as a tour operator.  In fact, CaliforniaGirl09 and I just booked NatGeo's Patagonia Hiking Adventure for next Fall to celebrate a certain milestone birthday for each of us 

The Ireland hiking trip was very similar in feel and experience to the England Coast to Coast trip CaliforniaGirl and I did last year (except that we weren't hiking a continuous path from point A to point B).  There were 10 in our group, and we had two full-time guides, plus we added local guides at a couple of attractions (such as the Rock of Cashel and The Burren).  The full-time guides were both Irish, very personable and a wealth of information about the local culture, etc.  The food and accommodations were high quality and on a par with England Coast to Coast.  All but two dinners were included in the tour.  Beer, wine, etc. were generally at our own expense but were occasionally included with meals.  The only real difference with this trip is that we did not have a strapping lad from New Zealand as our dedicated luggage carrier.  Porters generally brought our luggage up to our room (and NatGeo handled tips), and we either brought our luggage down ourselves (all of the hotels had elevators) or we could have a porter bring it down.  Patagonia will be a bit more rustic.  In fact, I think we have two nights where we won't have access to our suitcases and will have to carry what we need with us on our day hikes.  That will be interesting...


----------



## sayhello

Calfan said:


> Patagonia will be a bit more rustic.  In fact, I think we have two nights where we won't have access to our suitcases and will have to carry what we need with us on our day hikes.  That will be interesting...


I was thinking this might be a cool trip until I got to this point.   

Sayhello


----------



## carpenta

For all those who have played sports in their lives there is a saying "You learn more from losing than winning" and constructive criticism with examples is always helpful for any company. I agree there is a line between criticism and bashing.


----------



## Rapunzellover

I love ABD, but I am considering a trip to Portugal with Tauck.  As I believe I've said before, I make my decisions based on itinerary, lodging, etc., and not provider.  I love Disney, but honestly haven't been to any of the parks in almost 20 years.


----------



## DisneyKevin

Calfan said:


> I also think you should go ahead and post the link, Cinderella's Sleeper.



Posting links to other travel related sites is against DIS Board policies.


----------



## tgeorge

I'm very,very easy to please and I'm not a huge foodie,so most things are good with me. But, I do appreciate that people have issues and they should be looked into if the circumstances warrant. Some of those things are obvious and others may be more personal,but either way, I agree with most who have said having it in context is always important.

I couldn't agree more @mare1203 . I always feel very fortunate that I can look at luxury group travel as an option or stay in some pretty amazing hotels (as I type this I'm sitting at the Sky Suites Pool at Aria...rough, really rough, right)?  I live for moments and experiences that create memories because those are the things that mean the most to me.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

DisneyKevin said:


> Posting links to other travel related sites is against DIS Board policies.



This is why I didn't post the link directly. You can still message me directly or post here that you're interested and I'll send it to you directly.


----------



## acndis

This has been a great discussion!  Thanks to all who have contributed.  We love ABD and have had terrific trips with wonderful guides every time.  

I have appreciated and learned so much from everyone who took the time to write a trip report and I really appreciated hearing the good with the bad so I could make a more informed choice on my decision.  I have done (and not done) a lot of things based on your experiences and I know that has made my experience better.

We decided to go with another tour operator for 2018 because we are doing 2 ABDs this year and doing Australia next December.  We had a great interaction with the new company and I have nothing but good things to say so far but the real reason we went with them was cost.  They were less expensive and that was realistic for us after Australia.

I found this new company (and others) through these boards and that helped us get another awesome vacation.  However, I am sure we will be back with ABD soon.  Cousin O and Mare almost had us talked into Northern Italy which had not been on our radar at all!


----------



## AnnaFloridaLover

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> This is why I didn't post the link directly. You can still message me directly or post here that you're interested and I'll send it to you directly.



I would love the link to your blog.  Thank you in advance!


----------



## CaliKris

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> This is why I didn't post the link directly. You can still message me directly or post here that you're interested and I'll send it to you directly.


I love reading all the trip reports on this forum.  In fact, my husband and I have booked our first ABD (to China) because of all the great things we have read on these boards.   I have never had the courage to post, but I would really like to read your blog.  I hope I am doing this right!


----------



## laceltris3

Please send me the link as well. Thanks so much!

I will say regarding my experience with Tauck Bridges that I do not recommend it for people with food allergies for foreign travel where you don't speak the language. They ask about such issues when you book, but do no coordination with the meal providers to determine what is safe and we were left relying on our single guide, who spoke the language broken at best to convey the needs. We were most usually reduced to deducing, well, the spaghetti is probably ok, with no confirmation, and another child got sent to the ER with a reaction. The guide just kept reiterating to the family that the cost of the cab from our remote hotel was on them. And 3/36 people on the tour had severe nut allergies, which would be common, one would think, for the demographic that is booking such tours. We were looking to ABD if only to have someone help with the food allergies.


----------



## calypso726

CaliKris said:


> I love reading all the trip reports on this forum.  In fact, my husband and I have booked our first ABD (to China) because of all the great things we have read on these boards.   I have never had the courage to post, but I would really like to read your blog.  I hope I am doing this right!



Just wanted to say Hi  and welcome you on your first post. I do hope you post about your experience with your China trip. We are hoping to book that one next year for 2018 adventure so I look forward to reading trip reports that goes to China.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

laceltris3 said:


> Please send me the link as well. Thanks so much!
> 
> I will say regarding my experience with Tauck Bridges that I do not recommend it for people with food allergies for foreign travel where you don't speak the language. They ask about such issues when you book, but do no coordination with the meal providers to determine what is safe and we were left relying on our single guide, who spoke the language broken at best to convey the needs. We were most usually reduced to deducing, well, the spaghetti is probably ok, with no confirmation, and another child got sent to the ER with a reaction. The guide just kept reiterating to the family that the cost of the cab from our remote hotel was on them. And 3/36 people on the tour had severe nut allergies, which would be common, one would think, for the demographic that is booking such tours. We were looking to ABD if only to have someone help with the food allergies.



I will get into my experiences about travelling with ABD with a food allergy more in my blog but I will say this. When it came to meals, ABD handled my food allergy very well. Our European guide pretty much always dealt with me and the restaurant for all meals. He always came by for each course to tell me what I was getting, especially if it was different from what everyone else was getting because the meal was being served family style, so that I was reassured that what I was getting was safe for me to eat. Where ABD fell flat in relation to my food allergy was in the snack department on the bus. They had allergy friendly snacks but the guides failed to ensure that I was able to get any of them because they allowed the other guests to take as many snacks as they wanted whenever they wanted.  I wouldn't rely on Disney or any tour company to provide you with allergy friendly snacks so my advice would be either pack some yourself (if you're going to Asia - Nat Geo tells you to do just this), or to find a local grocery store in whatever town you may be in, especially if you're in Europe, and purchase something that you know you can eat while in transit.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

CaliKris said:


> I love reading all the trip reports on this forum.  In fact, my husband and I have booked our first ABD (to China) because of all the great things we have read on these boards.   I have never had the courage to post, but I would really like to read your blog.  I hope I am doing this right!



Hi Cali, I wasn't able to message you directly so I left you a message on your profile with the link.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

TXTransplant said:


> I'm so glad you posted this, as the combinations of multiple threads into this one has really frustrated me.  It's simply too much information in one place.  I get the moderator's post above that people don't talk extensively about Sea World, Universal, LEGOLAND, etc. on the other Disney threads, but those attractions have their OWN forums within Disboards.  That's not an option in this ABD forum.  And considering what kind of travel ABD customers are looking for, the community board is absolutely NOT the right place to have these discussions!
> 
> Also, I've been posting here for a couple of years, and what I've found is that the group is relatively small and very loyal to ABD, even if they may book some trips with other tour companies.  The best description I can give is all of us here are very travel savvy and we want the best experience that our budgets can provide...sometimes ABD simply can't provide that, based on itineraries and specific travel dates.  I for one appreciate a forum where instead of hearing "Well, ABD doesn't offer that so you're out of luck," being able to receive feedback that says "Here are some other options for you."
> 
> Also, for those of us who have experienced ABD, I think it has fundamentally changed the way we travel.  I really like being able to take the ABD model and customize my own trips when ABD isn't an option, much like many of us do on our pre- and post-ABD tour days.  Without feedback from the wonderful posters here, I wouldn't have known about Walks of Italy or Walks of New York, which are two fantastic options for achieving an ABD-like experience.  That has made this forum invaluable to me, and I very much wish there was a better way to post information and trip reports that are not specific to ABD itineraries.  The travel experiences that we have all come to appreciate and want to replicate are part of a very niche portion of the industry, but information is not easy to come by (at least not all in one place) - when we can share those experiences here, it just enriches our travel that much more (and hopefully gives ABD feedback on what they can and should do differently).
> 
> While I realize this board is sponsored by a group who has a vested interest in people booking ABD trips, I hope they realize that posting non-ABD information will not drive people away from ABD.  Those of us who understand and appreciate the ABD experience will keep coming back to ABD for our travel experiences.  However, limiting the discussion will only keep people out of this forum - and I say that from experience because I am trying to plan a non-ABD trip right now, and I know that I can't really post extensively about it here.




I wish the "Other Options" thread was actually a sub-forum within the larger ABD forum here. I know on another Disney board they have sub-forums within the larger forums because you would see the same topic showing up every week because the thread got lost in the larger forum because only a smaller subset of people were interested but it still fit within the larger forum. Like non-ABD group travel still fits within the larger forum of ABD but we're a smaller subset. Why not just have a sub-forum link at the top that we can click on to take us to the sub forum and then we have all our different topics in there. Nobody in the main forum even needs to see the threads inside, it can just be "Other options" and then when you click on that sub-forum, that's when you see all the other topics we're talking about and that's where we can post our trip reports for companies like Nat Geo or Tauck and stuff like that or just discuss what it's like to travel with them.


----------



## aggiemomx3

Cinderella's slipper. If you don't mind, I would like to have your link.


----------



## ABDHelper

I would love to have the link as well please


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

ABDHelper said:


> I would love to have the link as well please



Check your profile page. I couldn't message you directly so I posted it on your profile page.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

For those of you following along, I have just posted the next instalment of my blog. This is our free day in Prague/Welcome Reception & Dinner day.


----------



## CaliKris

calypso726 said:


> Just wanted to say Hi  and welcome you on your first post. I do hope you post about your experience with your China trip. We are hoping to book that one next year for 2018 adventure so I look forward to reading trip reports that goes to China.


Thanks for the welcome @calpyso726.  I have finally made it out of lurkdom!  I have so enjoyed reading your trip reports and hope to be able to pay it back after our trip to China.


----------



## CaliKris

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> Hi Cali, I wasn't able to message you directly so I left you a message on your profile with the link.


Thank you!  I can see that you left me a message on my profile but it says I do not have permission to read it.  I am thinking I need to have 10 posts to be official?


----------



## sayhello

CaliKris said:


> Thank you!  I can see that you left me a message on my profile but it says I do not have permission to read it.  I am thinking I need to have 10 posts to be official?


That would be a safe guess.  I know you need at least 10 posts to do most things on this Board.

Which China trip are you on for next year?

Sayhello


----------



## CaliKris

sayhello said:


> That would be a safe guess.  I know you need at least 10 posts to do most things on this Board.
> 
> Which China trip are you on for next year?
> 
> Sayhello



We are on the June 25th departure and are super excited!  I am enjoying your trip report, @sayhello 

I am up to four posts!


----------



## sayhello

CaliKris said:


> We are on the June 25th departure and are super excited!  I am enjoying your trip report, @sayhello
> 
> I am up to four posts!


I'm doing the June 4th departure to China.  REALLY looking forward to it!  It is definitely the Trip Reports on this Forum that decided me to take the China trip!  

Glad you're enjoying my trip report!    More to come soon!

Sayhello


----------



## tink1970

I honestly think this is the most helpful ongoing thread of the boards.

I enjoy the trip reports by many of you but overall, this is where I get a lot of information that just isn't readily available anywhere else. It appears to me that many of us are experienced travelers who desire a quality product that meets schedule and budget parameters. It's nice to a have thread to explore those options.


----------



## AquamarineSteph

We had one seriously negative experience happen on an ABD.  There wasn't anything we could do about it at the time, but when we returned home I made sure to forward my remarks to the person I thought needed to know - my travel agent.  And within 24 hours, I was speaking on the phone with a representative of ABD who assured me that this wasn't the experience they wanted people to have.  That one phone call renewed my faith in ABD (and generated my lifelong devotion to my travel agent), and my subsequent Adventure (previously booked before that happened) was a delight.  I have since talked my other half into doing another Adventure, and we're very much looking forward to it.  I really do enjoy ABD's way of doing things.

We did a trip with Tauck, and I would not recommend them for a variety of reasons UNLESS they have an itinerary which fits your needs/desires.   They had places we wanted to visit, and my foreign languages are a disaster so I rely on a tour operator doing that work for me at hotels, tourist stops, etc.  Now it wasn't a BAD trip.  I got my money's worth, but I prefer the ABD approach more than I did theirs.

But as far as trip reports go, it's always good information to know that sometimes things do go wrong.  And it's good to know that you're not the only person to have an adverse experience.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

AquamarineSteph said:


> We had one seriously negative experience happen on an ABD.  There wasn't anything we could do about it at the time, but when we returned home I made sure to forward my remarks to the person I thought needed to know - my travel agent.  And within 24 hours, I was speaking on the phone with a representative of ABD who assured me that this wasn't the experience they wanted people to have.  That one phone call renewed my faith in ABD (and generated my lifelong devotion to my travel agent), and my subsequent Adventure (previously booked before that happened) was a delight.  I have since talked my other half into doing another Adventure, and we're very much looking forward to it.  I really do enjoy ABD's way of doing things.
> 
> We did a trip with Tauck, and I would not recommend them for a variety of reasons UNLESS they have an itinerary which fits your needs/desires.   They had places we wanted to visit, and my foreign languages are a disaster so I rely on a tour operator doing that work for me at hotels, tourist stops, etc.  Now it wasn't a BAD trip.  I got my money's worth, but I prefer the ABD approach more than I did theirs.
> 
> But as far as trip reports go, it's always good information to know that sometimes things do go wrong.  And it's good to know that you're not the only person to have an adverse experience.



I'm glad you had a positive experience dealing with ABD after you complained. Unfortunately for us, we didn't. The person we spoke to was rather condescending and rude and really didn't take our issues seriously at all.


----------



## DisneyKevin

Having a travel agent as your advocate can offer help in many different ways.

And our services cost you nothing.

We even offer a booking discount to all guests.

Kevin@DreamsUnlimitedTravel.com


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

DisneyKevin said:


> Having a travel agent as your advocate can offer help in many different ways.
> 
> And our services cost you nothing.
> 
> We even offer a booking discount to all guests.
> 
> Kevin@DreamsUnlimitedTravel.com



I have a Disney Agent and she's great. She said she'd talk to her ABD rep but she also let me talk to ABD myself but they just pushed me off on Guest Relations who was really condescending and rude. Basically just said they would make a note on future itineraries to advise people to bring noise cancelling headphones if they don't like loud music on the bus completely ignoring the fact that it was said loud music played by THEIR employee that nearly put me in a hospital in Austria because THEIR employee REFUSED to turn it down


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

AquamarineSteph said:


> We had one seriously negative experience happen on an ABD.  There wasn't anything we could do about it at the time, but when we returned home I made sure to forward my remarks to the person I thought needed to know - my travel agent.  And within 24 hours, I was speaking on the phone with a representative of ABD who assured me that this wasn't the experience they wanted people to have.  That one phone call renewed my faith in ABD (and generated my lifelong devotion to my travel agent), and my subsequent Adventure (previously booked before that happened) was a delight.  I have since talked my other half into doing another Adventure, and we're very much looking forward to it.  I really do enjoy ABD's way of doing things.



When I spoke to ABD after our China adventure they were very empathetic as well.  Overall I was satisfied with how they handled what happened and it is my hope that they will be able to adapt to natural disasters better in the future.  Although they don't happen very often there needs to be a bit of flexibility on their part with respect to how they handle things.  

While we are excited for our ABD cruise in June, 2017 I'm not certain when we will travel with them again.  I love the flexibility of traveling on my own -- however my kids like traveling with other families, so it is a bit of a conundrum!


----------



## DisneyKevin

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> I have a Disney Agent and she's great. She said she'd talk to her ABD rep but she also let me talk to ABD myself but they just pushed me off on Guest Relations who was really condescending and rude. Basically just said they would make a note on future itineraries to advise people to bring noise cancelling headphones if they don't like loud music on the bus completely ignoring the fact that it was said loud music played by THEIR employee that nearly put me in a hospital in Austria because THEIR employee REFUSED to turn it down



I'm sorry your agent wasnt able to help you.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

DisneyKevin said:


> I'm sorry your agent wasnt able to help you.



Unfortunately I don't think there is much she could have done. When it comes to taking responsibility for things, ABD is not willing to do that these days, even when it is clearly their fault/resposibility. They are quick to lay the blame on the guest even when the guest is not at fault. I heard it first hand while on the tour about the cycling excursion on the Germany tour. Jennae said outright that all the accidents that happen on that particular excursion are because people haven't been on a bike in years and think they can just hop on a bike and be fine. She was outright laying 100% of the blame/fault on the guests.


----------



## DisneyKevin

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> Unfortunately I don't think there is much she could have done. When it comes to taking responsibility for things, ABD is not willing to do that these days, even when it is clearly their fault/resposibility. They are quick to lay the blame on the guest even when the guest is not at fault. I heard it first hand while on the tour about the cycling excursion on the Germany tour. Jennae said outright that all the accidents that happen on that particular excursion are because people haven't been on a bike in years and think they can just hop on a bike and be fine. She was outright laying 100% of the blame/fault on the guests.



I'm guessing you signed a travel agreement in order to participate in this Adventure.

This is included in each travel agreement....


*I AGREE TO ASSUME THE RISKS* inherent in and incidental to participation in the Adventure, including participation in recreational and other activities in the course of the Adventure described in the Adventure Travel Documents (the "Activities"), organized or conducted by you, an Excursion Provider or Supplier (as defined below) which may cause loss or damage to personal property, personal injury or death. I agree to abide by the rules and instructions given prior to or during the Activities. I am fully aware of the physically and psychologically challenging nature of the Activities and that furthermore there will be risks and dangers inherent in the Activities, which may include but are not limited to, the following examples:

*Walking Tours, Historic Site Visits, Hiking and Nature Walks*: Risk of falling, tripping, being struck by objects and/or slipping as a result of walking on trails, terrain, cobblestones, sidewalks or other surfaces that are slippery, rocky, uneven, unimproved, bridgeless or unstable, including those in historic sites and museums; exposure to city traffic; and exposure to hot sun or cold temperatures, insect bites and stings, or any dangerous wildlife encounters.

*Boating and Watercraft Activities*: Risk of hypothermia or drowning from being thrown by the forces of water motion or movement of the vessel through rough and unpredictable waters or seas; head and other bodily injury from being thrown out of the raft or boat onto rocks or trees or into dangerous rocks or cold water, or from coming in contact with gear, cargo, rigging or other people; accident caused by embarkation and disembarkation from slippery, uneven, unstable or vessel surfaces; risk of vessel capsizing or sinking; trauma caused by hot sun or cold water, including sunstroke, sickness or being wet, cold or uncomfortable; and attack by sea creatures.

*Game Drive and Related Activities*: Risks inherent in walking or traveling by open jeep in a game reserve, including attack by game, wild or domestic animals, birds and reptiles; and trauma caused by exposure to heat and sun including heat stroke, sun stroke, sunburn, and dehydration.

*Archery lessons*: Risk of injury from coming into contact with arrows and other archery equipment, which may be sharp and may move at a fast speed.

*Aerial Tram*: Risk of motion sickness and vertigo; altitude sickness; falling from heights; and equipment failures, including but not limited to, failure of cables or any part of the tram structure.

*Activities with animals*: Risk of injury by animals that may act unpredictably and may kick, bite, stomp, spit, stumble, fall down, or move suddenly due to their reactions to the conduct of the person petting or shearing them, other persons, other animals, loud noises, light, or vehicles; risk of injury by marine wildlife.

*Traveling and Transportation*: Risk of travel by plane, boat or automobile/bus, which may include delay, inconvenience, motion sickness, vertigo, and injury caused by collision or other accident during transport or in the course of embarking and disembarking the vehicle or conveyance.

*Reptile/Insect Demonstration*: Risk of being bitten, stung or strangled by reptiles or insects, whether poisonous or otherwise.

Therefore, on my own behalf, and on behalf of my heirs, executors, administrators and minor age children and children of whom I am a legal guardian, I hereby *RELEASE* and forever discharge the Released Parties and any Excursion Provider and any Supplier, of and from all liabilities, claims, actions, damages, costs or expenses of any nature arising out of or in any way connected with participation in the Activities, and further agree to indemnify and hold the Released Parties, any Excursion Provider and any Supplier harmless against any and all such liabilities, claims, actions, damages, costs or expenses, including, but not limited to, all attorney"s fees and disbursements. I understand that this release and indemnity agreement includes, without limitation, any claims caused by, or suffered by me and covers bodily injury and property damage, whether suffered by me before, during or after participation in the Activities. I further authorize medical treatment for myself and the members of my party, at my cost, if the need arises. However I acknowledge that none of the Released Parties, an Excursion Provider or a Supplier shall have a duty, obligation or liability arising out of the provision of, or failure to provide medical treatment and further acknowledge that medical treatment may not be available. I understand and acknowledge that (i) an Excursion Provider and a Supplier are _independent entities not affiliated with you_, (ii) the Activities are being provided by or through an Excursion Provider or a Supplier under agreement(s) or arrangement(s) with one or more of you, or in the case of a Supplier, under agreement(s) or arrangement(s) with an Excursion Provider; (iii) "Excursion Provider" as used in this Agreement means a person or entity that arranges and/or escorts me on the Activities, and includes its parent, subsidiary, related and affiliated companies, and the officers, employees, agents, representatives, successors and assigns of each of them; and (iv) "Supplier" as used in this Agreement means a person or entity that arranges the Activities, and includes its parent, subsidiary, related and affiliated companies, and the officers, employees, agents, representatives, successors and assigns of each of them.

*Once you have signed this legal document, you release ABD from any fault.*


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

DisneyKevin said:


> I'm guessing you signed a travel agreement in order to participate in this Adventure.
> 
> This is included in each travel agreement....
> 
> 
> *I AGREE TO ASSUME THE RISKS* inherent in and incidental to participation in the Adventure, including participation in recreational and other activities in the course of the Adventure described in the Adventure Travel Documents (the "Activities"), organized or conducted by you, an Excursion Provider or Supplier (as defined below) which may cause loss or damage to personal property, personal injury or death. I agree to abide by the rules and instructions given prior to or during the Activities. I am fully aware of the physically and psychologically challenging nature of the Activities and that furthermore there will be risks and dangers inherent in the Activities, which may include but are not limited to, the following examples:
> 
> *Walking Tours, Historic Site Visits, Hiking and Nature Walks*: Risk of falling, tripping, being struck by objects and/or slipping as a result of walking on trails, terrain, cobblestones, sidewalks or other surfaces that are slippery, rocky, uneven, unimproved, bridgeless or unstable, including those in historic sites and museums; exposure to city traffic; and exposure to hot sun or cold temperatures, insect bites and stings, or any dangerous wildlife encounters.
> 
> *Boating and Watercraft Activities*: Risk of hypothermia or drowning from being thrown by the forces of water motion or movement of the vessel through rough and unpredictable waters or seas; head and other bodily injury from being thrown out of the raft or boat onto rocks or trees or into dangerous rocks or cold water, or from coming in contact with gear, cargo, rigging or other people; accident caused by embarkation and disembarkation from slippery, uneven, unstable or vessel surfaces; risk of vessel capsizing or sinking; trauma caused by hot sun or cold water, including sunstroke, sickness or being wet, cold or uncomfortable; and attack by sea creatures.
> 
> *Game Drive and Related Activities*: Risks inherent in walking or traveling by open jeep in a game reserve, including attack by game, wild or domestic animals, birds and reptiles; and trauma caused by exposure to heat and sun including heat stroke, sun stroke, sunburn, and dehydration.
> 
> *Archery lessons*: Risk of injury from coming into contact with arrows and other archery equipment, which may be sharp and may move at a fast speed.
> 
> *Aerial Tram*: Risk of motion sickness and vertigo; altitude sickness; falling from heights; and equipment failures, including but not limited to, failure of cables or any part of the tram structure.
> 
> *Activities with animals*: Risk of injury by animals that may act unpredictably and may kick, bite, stomp, spit, stumble, fall down, or move suddenly due to their reactions to the conduct of the person petting or shearing them, other persons, other animals, loud noises, light, or vehicles; risk of injury by marine wildlife.
> 
> *Traveling and Transportation*: Risk of travel by plane, boat or automobile/bus, which may include delay, inconvenience, motion sickness, vertigo, and injury caused by collision or other accident during transport or in the course of embarking and disembarking the vehicle or conveyance.
> 
> *Reptile/Insect Demonstration*: Risk of being bitten, stung or strangled by reptiles or insects, whether poisonous or otherwise.
> 
> Therefore, on my own behalf, and on behalf of my heirs, executors, administrators and minor age children and children of whom I am a legal guardian, I hereby *RELEASE* and forever discharge the Released Parties and any Excursion Provider and any Supplier, of and from all liabilities, claims, actions, damages, costs or expenses of any nature arising out of or in any way connected with participation in the Activities, and further agree to indemnify and hold the Released Parties, any Excursion Provider and any Supplier harmless against any and all such liabilities, claims, actions, damages, costs or expenses, including, but not limited to, all attorney"s fees and disbursements. I understand that this release and indemnity agreement includes, without limitation, any claims caused by, or suffered by me and covers bodily injury and property damage, whether suffered by me before, during or after participation in the Activities. I further authorize medical treatment for myself and the members of my party, at my cost, if the need arises. However I acknowledge that none of the Released Parties, an Excursion Provider or a Supplier shall have a duty, obligation or liability arising out of the provision of, or failure to provide medical treatment and further acknowledge that medical treatment may not be available. I understand and acknowledge that (i) an Excursion Provider and a Supplier are _independent entities not affiliated with you_, (ii) the Activities are being provided by or through an Excursion Provider or a Supplier under agreement(s) or arrangement(s) with one or more of you, or in the case of a Supplier, under agreement(s) or arrangement(s) with an Excursion Provider; (iii) "Excursion Provider" as used in this Agreement means a person or entity that arranges and/or escorts me on the Activities, and includes its parent, subsidiary, related and affiliated companies, and the officers, employees, agents, representatives, successors and assigns of each of them; and (iv) "Supplier" as used in this Agreement means a person or entity that arranges the Activities, and includes its parent, subsidiary, related and affiliated companies, and the officers, employees, agents, representatives, successors and assigns of each of them.
> 
> *Once you have signed this legal document, you release ABD from any fault.*



We didn't have a cycling excursion, I was using that as an example of how Disney now lays the blame for things on the guest even when something happens when it's not the guests fault, like a bike chain coming off. It was a comment that a Guide made in reference to an activity on another trip because someone asked her outright about all the accidents on the cycling excursion on the Germany trip. She said it was because "Everyone assumes they still know how to ride a bike even if they haven't been on one in years". My situation was different and I'm not getting into it further here.


----------



## DisneyKevin

This is also true when using a pass to enter Disneyland or WDW.

From the Disney website:

*A Passholder assumes the inherent risks associated with the operation of all rides and attractions and should read and obey all safety signage, instructions and rules.*


----------



## DisneyKevin

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> We didn't have a cycling excursion, I was using that as an example of how Disney now lays the blame for things on the guest even when something happens when it's not the guests fault, like a bike chain coming off. It was a comment that a Guide made in reference to an activity on another trip because someone asked her outright about all the accidents on the cycling excursion on the Germany trip. She said it was because "Everyone assumes they still know how to ride a bike even if they haven't been on one in years". My situation was different and I'm not getting into it further here.



I'm sorry.

You gave an example and I explained why the Guide said what she said.

The example of the chain falling off is also covered in the Travel agreement. It's located here:

*I  hereby RELEASE and forever discharge the Released Parties and any Excursion Provider and any Supplier, of and from all liabilities, claims, actions, damages, costs or expenses of any nature arising out of or in any way connected with participation in the Activities, and further agree to indemnify and hold the Released Parties, any Excursion Provider and any Supplier harmless against any and all such liabilities, claims, actions, damages, costs or expenses, including, but not limited to, all attorney"s fees and disbursements*

When you sign your travel agreement, you release ABD from fault.

Everyone should read their Travel Agreement carefully and understand what it states.


----------



## DisneyKevin

I should add that all travel companies have a very similar liability release.

This is not specific to Disney or ABD.

If you look at your cruise documents that need to be signed prior to departure, you are signing a document releasing the cruise company from liability.

It's just standard travel company policy.


----------



## Burgundy Rose

I'd like to have a look at your blog, *Cinderella's Slipper 2015*, if you don't mind sending one more link! I've been following this part of DISboards for a long time now and several ABD trips are on my bucket list but I'm always looking for other good options too  I'm really sorry you were disappointed in ABD's service. I hope you manage to find another way to make your holidays magical, whether with DIY trips or by using another company.


----------



## tgeorge

I totally understand that they have to release themselves of any type of liability,but what I still have a hard time wrapping my head around is their unwillingness to turn down the music or to save specific snacks for someone who had an allergy they were aware of and could easily accommodate (ie, asking her first if she would like a non-dairy snack). To me, it is just courtesy. It sounds like Cinderella's slipper wasn't asking for it to be turned off (therefore ruining fun for others) simply turned down. And, again with the snacks. No, they can't always accommodate allergy issues,but they certainly can try, and it seems like they didn't do that. To me, those are pretty basic things they could have done. 

I would never expect any tour group to cater to me,but if there are things they can easily do, I would expect them to at least try. That is kind of what they are supposed to be there for,right?


----------



## DisneyKevin

My responses were only to address the discussion about bike accidents.


----------



## CaliKris

AquamarineSteph said:


> We had one seriously negative experience happen on an ABD.  There wasn't anything we could do about it at the time, but when we returned home I made sure to forward my remarks to the person I thought needed to know - my travel agent.  And within 24 hours, I was speaking on the phone with a representative of ABD who assured me that this wasn't the experience they wanted people to have.  That one phone call renewed my faith in ABD (and generated my lifelong devotion to my travel agent), and my subsequent Adventure (previously booked before that happened) was a delight.  I have since talked my other half into doing another Adventure, and we're very much looking forward to it.  I really do enjoy ABD's way of doing things.
> 
> We did a trip with Tauck, and I would not recommend them for a variety of reasons UNLESS they have an itinerary which fits your needs/desires.   They had places we wanted to visit, and my foreign languages are a disaster so I rely on a tour operator doing that work for me at hotels, tourist stops, etc.  Now it wasn't a BAD trip.  I got my money's worth, but I prefer the ABD approach more than I did theirs.
> 
> But as far as trip reports go, it's always good information to know that sometimes things do go wrong.  And it's good to know that you're not the only person to have an adverse experience.


Can I ask why you do not recommend Tauck?  We are looking at their South Africa trip because we like the itinerary better than ABD's.


----------



## tgeorge

CaliKris said:


> Can I ask why you do not recommend Tauck?  We are looking at their South Africa trip because we like the itinerary better than ABD's.




I'd also like to know this.  I've seen a trip with Tauck and I liked the itinerary.  Would love to hear your thoughts @AquamarineSteph


----------



## seema

Go Touch Down Travel and Tours is offering me a package and states that in all respects it is superior to Dinsey Adventure Packages to South Africa.

For example, the price is $8900 for some of the currently posted ABG South African tour for 9 days, it is $5500 for the non-discounted 7 day Cape Town or safari tour. There is no single supplement for the Go Touch Down Travel and Tours packages. GTD states that all tours have 6 people jeeps - while Disney has larger coach buses. GTD states that there is 1 driver/1 guide plus jeep holding 6 passengers; this ratio is less than the number of drivers/guides per passengers ratio for ABG tours. For GTD, all meals are included. For one o two GTD packages, there are 20 excursions; for the other tour there are 28 excursions.

The details are seen in this table:


https://www.dropbox.com/s/lpqbq86o4...sive Coupon 10-6-2016 - NEW-10-17-16.pdf?dl=0


----------



## sayhello

seema said:


> Go Touch Down Travel and Tours is offering me a package and states that in all respects it is superior to Dinsey Adventure Packages to South Africa. Please see the table in the link comparing these 2 companies' South African packages with 2 others? What do you think?
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/lpqbq86o4...sive Coupon 10-6-2016 - NEW-10-17-16.pdf?dl=0


Well, I think it's really hard to tell from this comparison page.  What kind of hotels do they stay at?  What kind of activities do they include?  Where do they go?  How long do you stay in each place?  You really have to compare the actual itineraries, not just their bullet points.

On ABD, you get *TWO* Guides, plus a bus driver, plus a local guide most places.  It sounds like this other company has smaller groups, but you only get one Guide/bus driver.  I don't find that superior or accurate.

It's 2 days shorter than the ABD, which partially accounts for the cost difference, but if you look at their "per day" calculations, they are not using the same calculations for both.  $5535 divided by 8 days is $692 but $9609 divided by 10 days is only $961 per day, not the $1120 they list.  And if you go with the least expensive rather than the most, it's $8309 divided by 10 days, which is $831 per day.  Still more, but I don't respect them for already mis-representing the cost.  I haven't even looked at ABD's site to see if the costs are accurate.

The points about travel within 6 months is a lie.  I've booked my China ABD well over a year in advance.  My Alaska trip was a year and a half in advance.  Again, they're making stuff up.  Not a good sign.

There aren't "Blackout Dates" with ABD.  They only offer departures on certain dates.  I'd like to know what they mean by "No blackout dates".

The No Single Supplement *is* a plus if you're traveling solo.

Personally, I think this table is a load of malarkey, and I'd have to see the actual itineraries to compare point-for-point.

They *might be* superior, but I sure don't get that impression from this table. I *would* conclude they participate in mis-leading advertising.  Up to you if that's a turn-off or not.

Sayhello
*
ETA:*  I looked at their website.  This is what they say about "No blackout dates":

No blackouts

We do not block off holidays or high-demand travel periods. You can even combine your tours, no matter the time of year.​ABD does not block off holidays or high-demand travel periods.  They have lots of Holiday trips and most of their trips run during high-demand travel periods.  That's a nonsense claim on their part.  If they are saying "we have no schedule, so you can schedule this trip any date you want" that's one thing.  But that's not how ABD operates.  They offer trips, and you find one on a date that works for you.


----------



## seema

Here is the link to their web site:

http://gotouchdown.com/

They have 2 main packages - including the safari package and the Capetown package. On the web site, you can get details of the itinerary and also of the lodgings for the 2 travel packages.

In terms of responses to your comments, they stated the following:

a) smaller means it is a more personalized tour - but usually (at least in the safari) it is an open jeep. ABD would have buses - advantage is climate control (whether summer or winter); disadvantage is that you feel you are farther from nature if you are sitting in an enclosed larger vehicle. If you only have 6 passengers to a jeep, then the staff/customer ratio may be higher in GTTT jeep compared to the ABD bus?
b) the agent say that although they are putting prices down in the table, you strictly can not compare them. It is like comparing apples and oranges. For Go Touchdown Travel and tours - ALL meals are covered (that is not true for ABG?). They state that in the one week, there are 28 different events (obviously, some of them may be the meals) that are being covered, rather than the 9 or 10 that are being covered by ABG.
c) although I am not at full liberty to give you details on an open forum, I do get significant discounts from what is mentioned in the table. At least 3 (and possibly 4) discounts - 1 promotional discount associated with a the travel show application I entered, a second one if I register soon, a third one if I pay all the money up front, and a fourth one for being a Canadian resident.
4. If one does not pay up front, then one can pay some deposit (I have to get the details on this), and then pay a monthly payment at 0% interest for up to 5 years. I can book the tour upto 5 years from now - with the locked current price and the locked current discounts, provided I pay at least a non-refundable deposit (I think it may be $1000 - but do not quote me on that).

The one thing they say is that they are so small, even though they are so good, that they are not aware of outside neutral reviews on their South Africa packages. Are you aware of such reviews or rankings for the ABG South African safari packages, or other non-safari South African packages?


----------



## kristilew

CaliKris said:


> Can I ask why you do not recommend Tauck?  We are looking at their South Africa trip because we like the itinerary better than ABD's.



We took a Tauck Bridges river cruise this summer and loved it.  If you have done ABDs, there is a bit of let down effect, as the service is not nearly so fawning. The guides were more there as helpers than as complete vacation magic-makers.  And the little things like snacks on the bus or surprises in your room do not happen.  However, once we got over ourselves and stopped comparing it to ABD, we found that we were enjoying ourselves immensely.  It was definitely a better trip for a family with a teen, as there were a lot of kids in that age group, and we were able to book a single cabin for DD18 with no single supplement - not possible on an ABD river cruise, we would have paid way, way more for her to be on a pull out sleeper chair in our cabin.  

Haven't done a Tauck land tour, but there were a few families on the cruise who had done both Tauck and ABD and they indicated that the land tours are more similar to Disney level than the river cruise.  Certainly the families who had never done an ABD thought the Tauck cruise was the best trip ever. There were some families who were as loyal to Tauck as many of us have been to ABD, with years and years of trips behind them.  

If service  and attention to detail are higher priorities than cost, ABD wins every time.  But if an itinerary or price with Tauck makes them attractive, I wouldn't hesitate to book again.


----------



## disneyphx

Hi

We have done ABD South Africa and I took a look at the Go Touch Down website. I don't think the trips are very comparable - primarily because Go Touch Down has trips that are 7 days in Cape Town or 7 days on safari, while ABD goes to 3 locations in the time. So your experience of South Africa would be very different on the 2 trips. 
Like with many of the discussions here, I think it is most important to consider what you are looking for in your trip to South Africa. For us, the combo of Cape Town and safari was important - and just a 'taste' of safari to see what we thought. Seeing the townships was also important to me, and we did that tour on our own.
Also, we have one child, so having the group experience we get with ABD or other family tour operators makes it more fun for her. If we were to look at small group like GO Touch Down does, there is a whole other set of tour operators to compare to.
A practical note - once you are at the game reserve on the ABD trip, you are in open jeeps. Our group was split into 4 jeeps (so 1 or 2 families in each). 
I also think Go Touch Down is 'counting' their and ABD events differently.
Have fun deciding! We loved our time in South Africa - we plan to go to Kenya and Tanzania soon.

Michele


----------



## sayhello

seema said:


> Here is the link to their web site:
> 
> http://gotouchdown.com/
> 
> They have 2 main packages - including the safari package and the Capetown package. On the web site, you can get details of the itinerary and also of the lodgings for the 2 travel packages.
> 
> In terms of responses to your comments, they stated the following:





> a) smaller means it is a more personalized tour - but usually (at least in the safari) it is an open jeep. ABD would have buses - advantage is climate control (whether summer or winter); disadvantage is that you feel you are farther from nature if you are sitting in an enclosed larger vehicle. If you only have 6 passengers to a jeep, then the staff/customer ratio may be higher in GTTT jeep compared to the ABD bus?



You do not do the safaris on the bus!  The bus is only for transportation from locale to locale.  You are broken up into much smaller groups for the actual safaris, and go in multiple open-air jeeps.  



> b) the agent say that although they are putting prices down in the table, you strictly can not compare them. It is like comparing apples and oranges. For Go Touchdown Travel and tours - ALL meals are covered (that is not true for ABG?). They state that in the one week, there are 28 different events (obviously, some of them may be the meals) that are being covered, rather than the 9 or 10 that are being covered by ABG.



It's true that ABD does not include all meals, but in general, they include the majority.  If you're including meals as an activity, then I think they are grossly under-estimating how many activities ABD does.



> c) although I am not at full liberty to give you details on an open forum, I do get significant discounts from what is mentioned in the table. At least 3 (and possibly 4) discounts - 1 promotional discount associated with a the travel show application I entered, a second one if I register soon, a third one if I pay all the money up front, and a fourth one for being a Canadian resident.



If cost is a big factor for you, then that *is* an advantage for them, as you're not going to see much in the way of these sorts of discounts from ABD.



> 4. If one does not pay up front, then one can pay some deposit (I have to get the details on this), and then pay a monthly payment at 0% interest for up to 5 years. I can book the tour upto 5 years from now - with the locked current price and the locked current discounts, provided I pay at least a non-refundable deposit (I think it may be $1000 - but do not quote me on that).



ABD does not book that far out, so if that's a big factor in your decision, then go touch down does have the advantage there.  I've never booked a tour or cruise more than a year and a half in advance, so I really can't speak to that.  Once you pay the deposit for an ABD, that's your price for that trip.  If you decide to change to another trip, then you'll pay at the prevailing rate (unless you are a DVC member).  ABD's deposit is 10% of the trip cost, so the amount you pay would depend on the cost of the trip.  You can pay off the trip as slowly or quickly as you like (ABD does not do any financing, but once you pay the deposit, you can pay monthly - at no charge from ABD - or weekly, or whatever you like, until the designated Paid in Full date).  If you're looking to finance your trip, ABD does not do that.



> The one thing they say is that they are so small, even though they are so good, that they are not aware of outside neutral reviews on their South Africa packages. Are you aware of such reviews or rankings for the ABG South African safari packages, or other non-safari South African packages?



I'm assuming you mean ABD and not ABG.  There aren't a lot of sites that have reviews of ABDs.  This is one of the few.  Although we are mostly big fans of ABD here, these *are* outside neutral reviews, as none of us are affiliated with ABD or Disney (ABD employees are not allowed to post here by ABD) and none of us were paid or in any way compensated for our reviews/trip reports.

Here are links to 4 South Africa Trip Reports on this Forum:

http://www.disboards.com/threads/links-to-abd-trip-reports.2167714/page-3#post-41080017

http://www.disboards.com/threads/links-to-abd-trip-reports.2167714/page-3#post-45328017

http://www.disboards.com/threads/links-to-abd-trip-reports.2167714/page-2#post-36529505

http://www.disboards.com/threads/links-to-abd-trip-reports.2167714/page-2#post-32754511

Sayhello


----------



## CaliKris

kristilew said:


> We took a Tauck Bridges river cruise this summer and loved it.  If you have done ABDs, there is a bit of let down effect, as the service is not nearly so fawning. The guides were more there as helpers than as complete vacation magic-makers.  And the little things like snacks on the bus or surprises in your room do not happen.  However, once we got over ourselves and stopped comparing it to ABD, we found that we were enjoying ourselves immensely.  It was definitely a better trip for a family with a teen, as there were a lot of kids in that age group, and we were able to book a single cabin for DD18 with no single supplement - not possible on an ABD river cruise, we would have paid way, way more for her to be on a pull out sleeper chair in our cabin.
> 
> Haven't done a Tauck land tour, but there were a few families on the cruise who had done both Tauck and ABD and they indicated that the land tours are more similar to Disney level than the river cruise.  Certainly the families who had never done an ABD thought the Tauck cruise was the best trip ever. There were some families who were as loyal to Tauck as many of us have been to ABD, with years and years of trips behind them.
> 
> If service  and attention to detail are higher priorities than cost, ABD wins every time.  But if an itinerary or price with Tauck makes them attractive, I wouldn't hesitate to book again.


Thank you @kristilew, that is very helpful.  We are familiar with the ABD trips (from all the great trip reports on these boards) but do not have as much information about Tauck.  We have booked the China ABD for 2017 and are planning on the Tauck South Africa trip for 2018, but we are worried we will feel disappointed after ABD.  We just like the Tauck itinerary better since it includes Victoria Falls and less sanctuaries.  We will not be traveling with children.


----------



## Bobo912

kristilew said:


> We took a Tauck Bridges river cruise this summer and loved it.  If you have done ABDs, there is a bit of let down effect, as the service is not nearly so fawning. The guides were more there as helpers than as complete vacation magic-makers.  And the little things like snacks on the bus or surprises in your room do not happen.  However, once we got over ourselves and stopped comparing it to ABD, we found that we were enjoying ourselves immensely.  It was definitely a better trip for a family with a teen, as there were a lot of kids in that age group, and we were able to book a single cabin for DD18 with no single supplement - not possible on an ABD river cruise, we would have paid way, way more for her to be on a pull out sleeper chair in our cabin.
> 
> Haven't done a Tauck land tour, but there were a few families on the cruise who had done both Tauck and ABD and they indicated that the land tours are more similar to Disney level than the river cruise.  Certainly the families who had never done an ABD thought the Tauck cruise was the best trip ever. There were some families who were as loyal to Tauck as many of us have been to ABD, with years and years of trips behind them.
> 
> If service  and attention to detail are higher priorities than cost, ABD wins every time.  But if an itinerary or price with Tauck makes them attractive, I wouldn't hesitate to book again.



I've done two Tauck trips, one land and one river cruise and my experience with the guides was totally different.  But this may be because Tauck guides have more freedom and are not as strictly regulated as ABD, so other's experience may be different.  On both trips our guides went out of their way to come up with special treats.  On both trips there were always snacks on the bus (or boat), including the bus to Salzburg on the Danube river cruise when one of the guides bought the blue foil, hand-made Mozart chocolate candy (not the mass-produced red foil candy) for us as a special treat.  On both trips the guides came up with a lot of fun contests with prizes, and usually everybody got a prize. For instance, when we made marzipan faces in Passau, the guides gave a prize for each face and came up with a personalized funny name for the prize awarded to each guest (and they did that for everybody, not just the kids).  They bought kites for the kids to fly on ship's deck and they rode rides with the them all evening at the Prater amusement park in Vienna, which included an epic bumper car battle.  They had a dance party on deck that was kids only and the guides served as bar tenders (non-alcoholic, of course) and DJs.  The kites, dance party, etc., were not part itinerary, but an extra surprise.  On the land trip our guide took photos, just like ABD guides, and gave us a CD at the farewell dinner.  And on the river cruise we had a slide show at the farewell, just like ABD.  All of these things were done at the discretion of the guides. That's just a few examples, but there were many more surprises. I had done 3 ABDs before the Tauck river cruise and 2 after and I think the river cruise is the 2nd best tour I've ever taken (after the Nat Geo trip to the Galapagos at #1).

Similarly, I've had some fantastic ABD guides - some more so than others.  And I've had some absolutely wonderful ABD trips and some that were just okay, but considering the cost, I don't think just okay is good enough.  When I did have an issue on an ABD, my post-trip communication with them was not very satisfying and somewhat unpleasant.  I guess it is advantageous to have a travel agent advocate for you, but it's too bad ABD can't treat a return guest (or any guest) with the same consideration.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

seema said:


> Go Touch Down Travel and Tours is offering me a package and states that in all respects it is superior to Dinsey Adventure Packages to South Africa. Please see the table in the link comparing these 2 companies' South African packages with 2 others? What do you think?
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/lpqbq86o4...sive Coupon 10-6-2016 - NEW-10-17-16.pdf?dl=0



I'm going to have to agree with @sayhello.  South Africa is a _country_, so it is impossible to compare one tour to another and completely unfair to try to do so.

However, IMHO ABD offers a much better tour than GTD for several reasons, a few of which I will list:

the accommodations in Cape Town are MUCH nicer and the location far superior (I'll be frank here -- the Burgundy Apartments {i.e. NOT a hotel} that GTD tours uses look awful and are a 20 minute drive from the V&A Waterfront)

Is GTD tours serious when they actually include a HOHO bus tour as part of their itinerary?  Surely this must be a joke.  

ABD has a tour that makes _much_ more sense logistically 

ABD includes the flight from Cape Town to Kapama, so internal airfare *is* included (I read that GTD buses people from the JoBurg airport to the reserve -- no thanks!)

Why does GTD even mention that ABD uses a bus and they use a 6 person Jeep?  Not a fair comparison since Kapama uses a Jeep / open air vehicle as well on the safari portion of the trip
Where is the Songimvelo reserve?  It looks very remote to me (bordering Swaziland), vs Kapama which is somewhat close to Kruger NP
There are no lions in the Songimvelo reserve; frankly I would be very disappointed to go on safari and _not_ see a lion
If you change your mind about an ABD safari they allow you to move your deposit to another tour, no questions asked, as long as it is before the PIF date
I can barely make plans for next summer; who the heck makes plans _5 years_ in advance?  Kudos to those who can, but I don't see that as a marketing point
ABD covers a lot of the highlights of South Africa with their trip.  It is not just a safari -- it is a tour of the country and definitely hits on the major sights in a well thought out and cohesive way whereas GTD is a Cape Town tour (7 days - far too long IMHO) and a 7 day safari (I wouldn't want to spend 5 days in the same reserve; for 7 days I'd hit 2 different reserves to experience different ecosystems)
These are just a few of my observations.

Also I personally don't care for a company that tries to establish themselves as superior by making unfair comparisons to another company and are as blatant as naming the other company.  I mean that takes a lot of chutzpah.

From what I can see a lot of people "win" promotional discounts with GTD, which sounds like malarkey to me.  Once you enter your name on their website for their "free" trip, my guess is that close to everyone gets notification that they "won" an $1,800.00 promotional discount.  Same goes for anyone that attends one of their "sessions".

If you were comparing the 2 companies and trying to decide between them I'd pick ABD without hesitation.  If you want to add on a trip to Victoria's Falls after an ABD it is very easy to do.  I am in the process of adding this on to our S. African safari since I just can't go all that way without seeing the falls


----------



## seema

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I'm going to have to agree with @sayhello.  South Africa is a _country_, so it is impossible to compare one tour to another and completely unfair to try to do so.
> 
> However, IMHO ABD offers a much better tour than GTD for several reasons, a few of which I will list:
> 
> the accommodations in Cape Town are MUCH nicer and the location far superior (I'll be frank here -- the Burgundy Apartments {i.e. NOT a hotel} that GTD tours uses look awful and are a 20 minute drive from the V&A Waterfront)
> 
> Is GTD tours serious when they actually include a HOHO bus tour as part of their itinerary?  Surely this must be a joke.
> 
> ABD has a tour that makes _much_ more sense logistically
> 
> ABD includes the flight from Cape Town to Kapama, so internal airfare *is* included (I read that GTD buses people from the JoBurg airport to the reserve -- no thanks!)
> 
> Why does GTD even mention that ABD uses a bus and they use a 6 person Jeep?  Not a fair comparison since Kapama uses a Jeep / open air vehicle as well on the safari portion of the trip
> Where is the Songimvelo reserve?  It looks very remote to me (bordering Swaziland), vs Kapama which is somewhat close to Kruger NP
> There are no lions in the Songimvelo reserve; frankly I would be very disappointed to go on safari and _not_ see a lion
> If you change your mind about an ABD safari they allow you to move your deposit to another tour, no questions asked, as long as it is before the PIF date
> I can barely make plans for next summer; who the heck makes plans _5 years_ in advance?  Kudos to those who can, but I don't see that as a marketing point
> ABD covers a lot of the highlights of South Africa with their trip.  It is not just a safari -- it is a tour of the country and definitely hits on the major sights in a well thought out and cohesive way whereas GTD is a Cape Town tour (7 days - far too long IMHO) and a 7 day safari (I wouldn't want to spend 5 days in the same reserve; for 7 days I'd hit 2 different reserves to experience different ecosystems)
> These are just a few of my observations.
> 
> Also I personally don't care for a company that tries to establish themselves as superior by making unfair comparisons to another company and are as blatant as naming the other company.  I mean that takes a lot of chutzpah.
> 
> From what I can see a lot of people "win" promotional discounts with GTD, which sounds like malarkey to me.  Once you enter your name on their website for their "free" trip, my guess is that close to everyone gets notification that they "won" an $1,800.00 promotional discount.  Same goes for anyone that attends one of their "sessions".
> 
> If you were comparing the 2 companies and trying to decide between them I'd pick ABD without hesitation.  If you want to add on a trip to Victoria's Falls after an ABD it is very easy to do.  I am in the process of adding this on to our S. African safari since I just can't go all that way without seeing the falls



GTD has 2 different tours - one can take the Safari tour or the Cape Town tour or both. Does ABD offer a tour of the whole country - including (but not limited to Cape Town and the safari area). What do you mean that ABD offers s tour that makes sense logistically.

What do you think of the lodgings for both ABD and GTD.

GTD does offer add-ons, including Johannesburg to Cape Town train, Port Elizabeth/coast garden tour, and of course, Victoria Falls.

Let us say for the sake of argument that ABD and GPT are analogous to comparing apples and oranges. They both give a different type of experience. But let us say that they experiences are equivalent (of course you may disagree on that point).  What do you say about the undiscounted cost of both tours - ABD does seem to be much more expensive. Does ABD give any type of discounts? With the 4 stacked discounts I could get with GBT, the total fare of the 2 package tours (safari and GBT) would be less than the undiscounted fare as quoted in that table for ABG.

I wonder if one has taken both the ABG South Africa tour and the GTD safari and/or Capetown tour. I would appreciate a comparison from that type of individual.


----------



## calypso726

seema said:


> GTD has 2 different tours - one can take the Safari tour or the Cape Town tour or both. Does ABD offer a tour of the whole country - including (but not limited to Cape Town and the safari area). What do you mean that ABD offers s tour that makes sense logistically.
> 
> What do you think of the lodgings for both ABD and GTD.
> 
> GTD does offer add-ons, including Johannesburg to Cape Town train, Port Elizabeth/coast garden tour, and of course, Victoria Falls.
> 
> Let us say for the sake of argument that ABD and GPT are analogous to comparing apples and oranges. They both give a different type of experience. But let us say that they experiences are equivalent (of course you may disagree on that point).  What do you say about the undiscounted cost of both tours - ABD does seem to be much more expensive. Does ABD give any type of discounts? With the 4 stacked discounts I could get with GBT, the total fare of the 2 package tours (safari and GBT) would be less than the undiscounted fare as quoted in that table for ABG.
> 
> I wonder if one has taken both the ABG South Africa tour and the GTD safari and/or Capetown tour. I would appreciate a comparison from that type of individual.



I agree with all of the points made by the previous posters. Let's see what TripAdvisor has to say about the accommodations:

GTDT - Dunkeld Country Estate gets 3.5 stars
ABD - Table Bay Hotel gets 4.5 stars
GTDT - Humala River Lodge can't find a review anywhere. Only thing I found were the "reviewers" with one post that came out of the woodwork on TripAdvisor to say positive things about GTDT. It cracks me up how someone is supposed to believe that 2, 3, 4, 5 different people all have the EXACT same writing style. Funny how they came out after someone said they were subjected to a timeshare presentation throughout their vacation to claim that doesn't happen. 
ABD - Kapama River Lodge gets 5 stars
GTDT - Burgundy Apartments gets 3.5 stars
ABD - Pezula Resort Hotel & Spa gets 4.5 stars

So ABD wins the accommodations category. The Radisson Blus I have stayed at outside of the US usually get 3.5 stars on TripAdvisor. If I weren't staying for free on points  from travel hacking I'd be most upset that I paid money to stay there unless it was really really cheap. I have been on 7 ABD trips and all of the accommodations have been great and a some were beyond amazing. 

I doubt you will find a person that has done both an ABD South Africa tour and the GTD safari or Capetown tour. If you do it would likely be one of the "reviewers" with one post from TripAdvisor showing up here and "Earning their Ears" with a "review". 

ABD is more expensive than other tour operators. Often times though, you get what you pay for. Two guides make a huge difference. There are other intangibles as well.  

I don't see how the experiences can be equivalent. Anyone who is looking forward to an African safari is hoping to see the Big 5. Lions, Elephant, Leopard, Rhino, Cape Buffalo. A game reserve with no lions will not do.


----------



## AquamarineSteph

CaliKris said:


> Can I ask why you do not recommend Tauck?  We are looking at their South Africa trip because we like the itinerary better than ABD's.





tgeorge said:


> I'd also like to know this.  I've seen a trip with Tauck and I liked the itinerary.  Would love to hear your thoughts @AquamarineSteph



Touring is very personal, and what matters to one person may not matter as much to another.  So feel free to take this with a grain of salt.

We were on a Tauck land trip with no children.  In fact, the youngest person there was somebody's adult grandson.  We were the youngest couple, and we're not that young.  Almost all of these people were veterans of multiple Tauck trips, which speaks well for their product and company.

Having said that, most of the people on the trip complained incessantly that they had to walk any distance at all, that the driver didn't smile at them, that this wasn't available or that wasn't available, or things were different on their last Tauck trip...etc., etc.  After day three, it was very depressing.  Now you may find people like that in any group, sure, but I've never run across such a concentration of unhappy people on an ABD trip.  (And ironically, in spite of all these complaints, these people were already talking about their next Tauck trip.)

Now that's a group specific observation, so let me move onto the way the tour itself works.  The hotels, save one, were fabulous.  (The one that was horrible was unfortunately the last hotel which didn't leave a good impression.)  The food for group meals was excellent local fare which showcased regional specialities.  There were repeat issues for people who had dietary restrictions.  The guide was available to the entire group for questions for five to ten minutes each morning before loading the bus to travel.  That's being literal.  We had a printed daily schedule, and the ask the guide anything time period was very clearly marked.  You could ask location questions during the tour, of course, but not personal questions.  

The printed daily schedule also took a lot of fun and anticipation out of the trip.  There was nothing to look forward to in that sense, because we knew at 4:10 pm we would be going there.  And at 5:15 pm, we would be leaving for there.  And we could all sit and obsess together if we were running late because of traffic, etc.  I don't think all of their tours do that, but I did not enjoy that experience.

And there were a lot of other little things that would take too long to list here.  In general, the service was adequate, but not what I would expect from a trip that costs what ours did.  The hotels were great, except that one.  The food was decent.  And we were able to see everything on our itinerary, and that's the key point here.  We picked out this tour with Tauck because it had a very specific itinerary which was not duplicated with any other tour company.  So in that respect, I am very glad we did this trip with them.  I wanted that specific itinerary; however, I do not plan to take another one with them, even though returning guests are given a free pre or post night's stay on the next tour they book.  

We didn't do the South Africa tour.  Our tour was in Europe.  If you have any specific questions that I might be able to answer, please free to message me.


----------



## sayhello

seema said:


> GTD has 2 different tours - one can take the Safari tour or the Cape Town tour or both. Does ABD offer a tour of the whole country - including (but not limited to Cape Town and the safari area). What do you mean that ABD offers s tour that makes sense logistically.


ABD only offers one South Africa itinerary.  It includes Cape Town, Knysna and Kapama Game Reserve. 



> GTD does offer add-ons, including Johannesburg to Cape Town train, Port Elizabeth/coast garden tour, and of course, Victoria Falls.


How much do those add-ons cost?  The trip gets more expensive the more add-ons you do.



> Let us say for the sake of argument that ABD and GPT are analogous to comparing apples and oranges. They both give a different type of experience. But let us say that they experiences are equivalent (of course you may disagree on that point).  What do you say about the undiscounted cost of both tours - ABD does seem to be much more expensive. Does ABD give any type of discounts? With the 4 stacked discounts I could get with GBT, the total fare of the 2 package tours (safari and GBT) would be less than the undiscounted fare as quoted in that table for ABG.


It's rare for ABD to offer discounts.  It does happen, but I never count on it.  Generally, the only way to get a "discount" on ABD is to book through a travel agent that offers some sort of rebate. 



> I wonder if one has taken both the ABG South Africa tour and the GTD safari and/or Capetown tour. I would appreciate a comparison from that type of individual.


I agree with calypso.  It's highly unlikely that you'll find anyone that has done South Africa with both companies.  I would think that for most people, a guided trip to South Africa would be a once-in-a lifetime thing.

Sayhello


----------



## CaliKris

AquamarineSteph said:


> Touring is very personal, and what matters to one person may not matter as much to another.  So feel free to take this with a grain of salt.
> 
> We were on a Tauck land trip with no children.  In fact, the youngest person there was somebody's adult grandson.  We were the youngest couple, and we're not that young.  Almost all of these people were veterans of multiple Tauck trips, which speaks well for their product and company.
> 
> Having said that, most of the people on the trip complained incessantly that they had to walk any distance at all, that the driver didn't smile at them, that this wasn't available or that wasn't available, or things were different on their last Tauck trip...etc., etc.  After day three, it was very depressing.  Now you may find people like that in any group, sure, but I've never run across such a concentration of unhappy people on an ABD trip.  (And ironically, in spite of all these complaints, these people were already talking about their next Tauck trip.)
> 
> Now that's a group specific observation, so let me move onto the way the tour itself works.  The hotels, save one, were fabulous.  (The one that was horrible was unfortunately the last hotel which didn't leave a good impression.)  The food for group meals was excellent local fare which showcased regional specialities.  There were repeat issues for people who had dietary restrictions.  The guide was available to the entire group for questions for five to ten minutes each morning before loading the bus to travel.  That's being literal.  We had a printed daily schedule, and the ask the guide anything time period was very clearly marked.  You could ask location questions during the tour, of course, but not personal questions.
> 
> The printed daily schedule also took a lot of fun and anticipation out of the trip.  There was nothing to look forward to in that sense, because we knew at 4:10 pm we would be going there.  And at 5:15 pm, we would be leaving for there.  And we could all sit and obsess together if we were running late because of traffic, etc.  I don't think all of their tours do that, but I did not enjoy that experience.
> 
> And there were a lot of other little things that would take too long to list here.  In general, the service was adequate, but not what I would expect from a trip that costs what ours did.  The hotels were great, except that one.  The food was decent.  And we were able to see everything on our itinerary, and that's the key point here.  We picked out this tour with Tauck because it had a very specific itinerary which was not duplicated with any other tour company.  So in that respect, I am very glad we did this trip with them.  I wanted that specific itinerary; however, I do not plan to take another one with them, even though returning guests are given a free pre or post night's stay on the next tour they book.
> 
> We didn't do the South Africa tour.  Our tour was in Europe.  If you have any specific questions that I might be able to answer, please free to message me.


Thank you @AquamarineSteph.  That is very helpful.  You have given us a lot to think about.  We do really like the Tauck itinerary but don't want to be disappointed after spending so much money.  We have only taken one other group tour and that was a small group with 12 people and a guide.  We all got to know the guide very well.


----------



## mare1203

CaliKris said:


> Thank you @AquamarineSteph.  That is very helpful.  You have given us a lot to think about.  We do really like the Tauck itinerary but don't want to be disappointed after spending so much money.  We have only taken one other group tour and that was a small group with 12 people and a guide.  We all got to know the guide very well.



A) ! So glad you made it out of lurkdome! 

I agree with the above posters that touring is very personal. I know a couple people who have done Tauck and this board, as you can see, has a number of them as well. I think at first we went with ABD because we were Disney loyalists who wanted to go to Italy and decided to try out ABD. We knew next to nothing about group travel or about other companies out there. After spending quite a bit of time on this board, there are a number of companies to consider depending on where you would like to visit and it's worth it to look beyond ABD. If the location was high on my list, and Tauck (or even another company) offered the "better" itinerary for me, I think I'd go for it. I'm sure there would be things we'd miss about Disney, but there would likely also be other things I liked better. IMO, they wouldn't be around very long if they didn't consistently deliver a good product. Are you looking at a Tauck or Tauck Bridges tour? I do know that ABD has pulled quite a bit from Tauck Bridges and other 'high-end group travel' companies as they entered the market (and ABD is still relatively young), so the companies are comparable in terms of the type of traveler they are hoping to land.


----------



## tgeorge

Thanks @AquamarineSteph .  That certainly does help.  Especially the adult only aspect because that is what I would be looking at.  This is a regular Italy trip that is not with Tauck Bridges.  What I like about it, is it essentially combines two of the ABD Italy trips (Amalfi Coast and Rome/Venice).  I know another poster on this board has said that she looked into Tauck (also non-Bridges) and the representative actually swayed her away from it due to her age and the normal demographic that they get.  Between that and some of your comments, it seems like I may need to wait a bit before I try their product.  I'm by no means opposed to interacting with people of all ages, however, I do think that my activity level and what I would be happy doing would make that type of trip one that I wouldn't be happy with.  So, while the Tauck trip does hit both of the locations in Italy, I do think that the activities with ABD would be more appealing, so it isn't a true comparison. A B2B may be the way to go in this case.

I know that travel is very subjective and what some people love others people don't, but I do appreciate you giving your opinion based upon your experience.  That definitely helps!


----------



## Rapunzellover

tgeorge said:


> I know another poster on this board has said that she looked into Tauck (also non-Bridges) and the representative actually swayed her away from it due to her age and the normal demographic that they get.



This is me, I believe, so I'll chime in.  Tauck was on my list for Ireland.  I was not impressed with their reps.  I went with ABD.  Did not regret it at all.  

That being said, Portugal is very high on my list (I'm Portuguese) and Tauck has a new itinerary I might try.  But I'm waiting a bit to see if ABD comes up with something.  Just to see.  

I usually make decisions based on itineraries.  But if the itineraries are close, I'd probably chose ABD.


----------



## tgeorge

Rapunzellover said:


> This is me, I believe, so I'll chime in.  Tauck was on my list for Ireland.  I was not impressed with their reps.  I went with ABD.  Did not regret it at all.
> 
> That being said, Portugal is very high on my list (I'm Portuguese) and Tauck has a new itinerary I might try.  But I'm waiting a bit to see if ABD comes up with something.  Just to see.
> 
> I usually make decisions based on itineraries.  But if the itineraries are close, I'd probably chose ABD.



Hi Rapunzellover! Yes, I was remembering a comment you had made about what the rep said to you.

I've also looked into Nat Geo for Italy,but their offerings aren't really what I'm looking for. I appreciate your feedback and if you do their Portugal trip at some point, would love to hear your thoughts since we're close in age and solo travelers. I think it would be a great comparison.


----------



## calypso726

Rapunzellover said:


> This is me, I believe, so I'll chime in.  Tauck was on my list for Ireland.  I was not impressed with their reps.  I went with ABD.  Did not regret it at all.
> 
> That being said, Portugal is very high on my list (I'm Portuguese) and Tauck has a new itinerary I might try.  But I'm waiting a bit to see if ABD comes up with something.  Just to see.
> 
> I usually make decisions based on itineraries.  But if the itineraries are close, I'd probably chose ABD.



So far we have chosen ABD to for our group travel if they go to the destination we want and the date works. We will go with a small private tour group or on our own if there is no ABD option. Currently, Hawaii, Bora Bora, Maldives and Iceland are trips we will do on our own. Some of our bucket list places just get pushed out while we wait to see if ABD will come up with a new destination. Japan, Antarctic are two that we'd like to visit some day and hope ABD will do those because I don't want to do them on my own.  In the meantime, we will cross off other the other bucket list places ABD offers that I know I don't want to plan to do on our own like Africa, China, Germany, Costa Rica and a few others.


----------



## tink1970

I so regretted not doing Tauck for Ireland...we went with Ireland's official company (CIE) and I was less than thrilled with our experience (the only reason I did this was Tauck and Tauck Bridges were sold out and ABD had so many young children my travel agent talked me out of it...). I had very specific dates due to being in the UK to drop off DD so I didn't have many options to work with, and mom wanted to be with a tour group (10 days together, just us, might be a little much!).  

While the accommodations and food were fine (sometimes good sometimes meh so averaging out to be fine), the experiences were plentiful (one would say one received one's money's worth...however I sometimes do not need to see the second largest ball of twine), and I enjoyed the company of 6 of the 30 other travelers, I was underwhelmed overall. The bus driver was wonderful (and I think I amused him when I told him one day "I'd rather be where people are not...") and the guide was very knowledgeable. The last night we spent at Dromolond Castle, and to my surprise our guide left us and said his time was done, good luck, passed out surveys, waited for tips and reminded us that there was  a bus ride to the airport the next day...and went home. Everyone around us (yes I noticed) marked the best scores possible on the survey whereas my mother and I were all over the place in our impressions. 

I learned a couple of valuable lessons: (1) not everyone wants or likes the same thing from a tour company and (2)I'm going with Tauck/Tauck Bridges to Ireland if I return.


----------



## CaliKris

Thanks for the welcome @mare1203.  I love your trip reports and will start posting on them now that I am out of the lurking zone.  I suppose I never introduced myself properly.  We are a couple in our 50's with children in their 20's.  We love to travel and love Disney.  We travel independently quite a bit as I enjoy planning trips and itineraries.  We have traveled (the four of us) to Europe, New Zealand and Japan (had to go to Tokyo Disney) without a guide. For places like China and South Africa, we feel more comfortable with a travel guide and group.  Plus, the China trip will get us to our last two Disney parks on our bucket list (Shanghai and Hong Kong).  For Africa and China, we are planning on just the two of us as they are pricey trips so we would not be looking at Tauck Bridges.

We don't mind traveling with people of all ages but don't want to be with a group of cranky people as @AquamarineSteph described either.  We are used to active, adventure vacations so that is another reason why ABD has so much appeal.  I have a feeling we might need to adjust our expectations a bit if we go with Tauck.  I am going to keep looking at other companies and itineraries.  After our China ABD, we may just decide to stick with ABD for South Africa.


----------



## EllinK

This is my favorite Disboard! I read it obsessively every day. We've been on 6 cruises with DCL but I still haven't made the leap to ABD. I'm hoping to do the southwest trip this year. 

Another place that has been on my must-do list is Australia/NZ. I keep hoping that ABD will do a combo trip but no joy so far. This morning's LA Times had a very interesting piece in the "tours and cruises" section -- a 14 day family-friendly trip to Aus/NZ for $5000! It's a great itinerary. I think the way this company (Zicasso) works is that they plan the trip, book the accommodations and arrange for guides but you travel on your own (they arrange the details but don't accompany you). Anyone have any experience traveling with this company?


----------



## CaliKris

EllinK said:


> This is my favorite Disboard! I read it obsessively every day. We've been on 6 cruises with DCL but I still haven't made the leap to ABD. I'm hoping to do the southwest trip this year.
> 
> Another place that has been on my must-do list is Australia/NZ. I keep hoping that ABD will do a combo trip but no joy so far. This morning's LA Times had a very interesting piece in the "tours and cruises" section -- a 14 day family-friendly trip to Aus/NZ for $5000! It's a great itinerary. I think the way this company (Zicasso) works is that they plan the trip, book the accommodations and arrange for guides but you travel on your own (they arrange the details but don't accompany you). Anyone have any experience traveling with this company?


These are my favorite of the Disboards as well!  We have been to almost all the Disney parks, just bought a DVC and now are going to be trying our first ABD.  The only thing left is DCL.  Would you recommend a DCL cruise for four adults?  Our kids are no longer little and we just don't know if a DCL would be right for us.


----------



## EllinK

CaliKris said:


> Would you recommend a DCL cruise for four adults?  Our kids are no longer little and we just don't know if a DCL would be right for us.



We love DCL but I have to admit it is the only line we've been on. What we love: everyone isn't old (which is important even if your kids are teens or young adults), the ships are elegant, the staff is very service oriented and the overall atmosphere created by your fellow cruisers is happy, fun and wholesome. What you don't get that you might on a more adult-focused ship is: better prices, more varied itineraries, wine etc included, and casinos.

We love DCL but I keep thinking we will try another cruise line but when push comes to shove, I value my vacation time as much as the price paid and I'm afraid that on another line I will pay less but maybe not enjoy it as much. Only you will know if it's right for you. Try one!


----------



## tgeorge

CaliKris said:


> These are my favorite of the Disboards as well!  We have been to almost all the Disney parks, just bought a DVC and now are going to be trying our first ABD.  The only thing left is DCL.  Would you recommend a DCL cruise for four adults?  Our kids are no longer little and we just don't know if a DCL would be right for us.



We don't have kids and I've been on DCL, Royal Caribbean and Carnival. While I'm not a big fan of Carnival, the other two, to me, are both great. I like them for different reasons. I think it depends on what is important to you while on vacation. I've had fantastic service on DCL and also the Oasis class Royal ships. The shows are great on them as well. However, I will say that shows are lacking on the other Royal class ships, IMHO. Both have a younger crowd, so I think either one would be a good option. 

The one thing were I feel DCL excels is in the adult only areas,which may sound counterintuitive. However, they truly do ensure that their adult only areas are truly adult only. I've been on other cruises where this isn't always the case. Not that it would make or break a cruise,but I feel like DCL does such a great job of entertaining kids that they really do want to stay in the kids area. 

It sounds like you really enjoy Disney products, and if your travel companions do as well, I think DCL is definitely worth looking into. Plus Castaway Cay is the absolute best cruise line island! If not, definitely look into the Oasis or Quantum class Royal ships. I think you would be happy with either.


----------



## calypso726

CaliKris said:


> These are my favorite of the Disboards as well!  We have been to almost all the Disney parks, just bought a DVC and now are going to be trying our first ABD.  The only thing left is DCL.  Would you recommend a DCL cruise for four adults?  Our kids are no longer little and we just don't know if a DCL would be right for us.



We are in our 40's and have no kids. We have been on 1 Carnival cruise and didn't care for it. We did 1 Royal Caribbean, Freedom of the Seas and liked it better than Carnival but not enough to want to cruise again. Then a few years later we bought into DVC and did our first Disney cruise which was the member cruise. That did it. Last month we went on our 16th Disney cruise! We have met what have become lifelong friends on our Disney cruises, the service is outstanding and the adult areas are kept adult. I'd be willing to try Celebrity since they do the Antarctic but am hoping ABD or DCL will decide to do that before I get to it on the bucket list.


----------



## CaliKris

calypso726 said:


> We are in our 40's and have no kids. We have been on 1 Carnival cruise and didn't care for it. We did 1 Royal Caribbean, Freedom of the Seas and liked it better than Carnival but not enough to want to cruise again. Then a few years later we bought into DVC and did our first Disney cruise which was the member cruise. That did it. Last month we went on our 16th Disney cruise! We have met what have become lifelong friends on our Disney cruises, the service is outstanding and the adult areas are kept adult. I'd be willing to try Celebrity since they do the Antarctic but am hoping ABD or DCL will decide to do that before I get to it on the bucket list.


Wow!  Sixteen Disney cruises.  That is quite an endorsement. We have been on Carnival (I think we have grown out of this one), Royal Caribbean, Princess and UnCruise.   I will have to add a DCL to my list.  We have Antarctica on our bucket list.  We have looked into the Lindblad cruise but are not ready to book yet.


----------



## tgeorge

On the last DCL cruise I took (April 2015),I met a woman who was on her 42nd DCL trip. I told her that I wanted to be like her when I grew up


----------



## AquamarineSteph

tink1970 said:


> I so regretted not doing Tauck for Ireland...we went with Ireland's official company (CIE) and I was less than thrilled with our experience (the only reason I did this was Tauck and Tauck Bridges were sold out and ABD had so many young children my travel agent talked me out of it...). I had very specific dates due to being in the UK to drop off DD so I didn't have many options to work with, and mom wanted to be with a tour group (10 days together, just us, might be a little much!).
> 
> While the accommodations and food were fine (sometimes good sometimes meh so averaging out to be fine), the experiences were plentiful (one would say one received one's money's worth...however I sometimes do not need to see the second largest ball of twine), and I enjoyed the company of 6 of the 30 other travelers, I was underwhelmed overall. The bus driver was wonderful (and I think I amused him when I told him one day "I'd rather be where people are not...") and the guide was very knowledgeable. The last night we spent at Dromolond Castle, and to my surprise our guide left us and said his time was done, good luck, passed out surveys, waited for tips and reminded us that there was  a bus ride to the airport the next day...and went home. Everyone around us (yes I noticed) marked the best scores possible on the survey whereas my mother and I were all over the place in our impressions.
> 
> I learned a couple of valuable lessons: (1) not everyone wants or likes the same thing from a tour company and (2)I'm going with Tauck/Tauck Bridges to Ireland if I return.



We also did an itinerary with CIE.  The other people on the tour were amazing!  The tour itself was - well - nowhere near what you typically experience with ABD.  I feel I got my money's worth, given that it's a less expensive tour.  I also feel that I'd rather pay a little more and travel with someone else next time.  I'd love to do the ABD Ireland trip one of these days!


----------



## calypso726

EllinK said:


> This is my favorite Disboard! I read it obsessively every day. We've been on 6 cruises with DCL but I still haven't made the leap to ABD. I'm hoping to do the southwest trip this year.
> 
> Another place that has been on my must-do list is Australia/NZ. I keep hoping that ABD will do a combo trip but no joy so far. This morning's LA Times had a very interesting piece in the "tours and cruises" section -- a 14 day family-friendly trip to Aus/NZ for $5000! It's a great itinerary. I think the way this company (Zicasso) works is that they plan the trip, book the accommodations and arrange for guides but you travel on your own (they arrange the details but don't accompany you). Anyone have any experience traveling with this company?



Zicasso actually pairs you with tour companies that can make your dream trip possibly come true. This was how I discovered Go Irish Tours. I wanted to do an Ireland ABD right before our ABD river cruise this past summer but the dates didn't work out to do both. I contacted some companies I found on my own and one Zicasso matched me up with. I was trying to copy ABD's itinerary with a few extras and a private guide/driver. Out of 8 - 10 companies I communicated with, it ultimately came down to one I found on my own and the one Zicasso led me to. I had a great experience. We do plan to go to Northern Ireland in a few years and see some of the highlights, then travel back to Ireland and stay in Ashford Castle for a week. I will contact Go Irish Tours again and request the same guide/driver we had over the summer. If all of the travel operators Zicasso has competing for your business can deliver the same wonderful experience we had then you can't go wrong.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

For those of you following along, the next instalment of my blog is up.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

Burgundy Rose said:


> I'd like to have a look at your blog, *Cinderella's Slipper 2015*, if you don't mind sending one more link! I've been following this part of DISboards for a long time now and several ABD trips are on my bucket list but I'm always looking for other good options too  I'm really sorry you were disappointed in ABD's service. I hope you manage to find another way to make your holidays magical, whether with DIY trips or by using another company.



I've left you a message on your profile page but you may not be able to see it yet. Don't worry. We made sure we had the trip we wanted and we still had a wonderful time on our trip despite the issues with ABD. We are travelling to South East Asia with Nat Geo in February and I'll be posting a blog about that trip as well.


----------



## kaseyC

@Cinderella's Slipper 2015 , I would like a link to your blog.


----------



## carpenta

kaseyC said:


> @Cinderella's Slipper 2015 , I would like a link to your blog.



...me too......Thanks


----------



## calypso726

Hello SafariGuy and welcome to the DISboards. Wow! I kind of expected someone new to show up here and review your tour company. Now, I wish I would have played the lottery today. Well, I must say you do have one advantage over Adventures by Disney and that is that you can post here and answer questions directly or defend your product etc. I am left to wonder though if there is an app that alerts you to every time the Go Touch Down Tours are mentioned on the internet. I am impressed at the speed of response when someone mentions the name of the company on Rip Off Report, BBB, TripAdvisor, Yelp and even the DISboards. Thank you for taking the time to explain what you offer a little better than what the website details.

*** edited to add*** Looks like SafariGuy's posts were deleted. Knew that was going to happen too. Really should have played lotto today LOL


----------



## EllinK

calypso726 said:


> If all of the travel operators Zicasso has competing for your business can deliver the same wonderful experience we had then you can't go wrong.



I'm so happy to hear about your experience! I am excited. I've received emails from 2 operators and they both sound promising. This trip is a ways off but I will keep everyone posted on my experience.


----------



## acndis

Calypso,

I was so excited to hear Zicasso helped you. I pinged them about New Zealand. It's a bit too far out but it's a great option if they can help me pull something together.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

calypso726 said:


> Hello SafariGuy and welcome to the DISboards. Wow! I kind of expected someone new to show up here and review your tour company. Now, I wish I would have played the lottery today. Well, I must say you do have one advantage over Adventures by Disney and that is that you can post here and answer questions directly or defend your product etc. I am left to wonder though if there is an app that alerts you to every time the Go Touch Down Tours are mentioned on the internet. I am impressed at the speed of response when someone mentions the name of the company on Rip Off Report, BBB, TripAdvisor, Yelp and even the DISboards. Thank you for taking the time to explain what you offer a little better than what the website details.
> 
> *** edited to add*** Looks like SafariGuy's posts were deleted. Knew that was going to happen too. Really should have played lotto today LOL



How did I miss his posts?  And how on earth did he know we were talking about GTD over here?  Yep, you definitely should've played the lottery! 

How long before he comes here under another username and starts to discreetly talk about his company?


----------



## sayhello

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> How did I miss his posts?  And how on earth did he know we were talking about GTD over here?  Yep, you definitely should've played the lottery!
> 
> How long before he comes here under another username and starts to discreetly talk about his company?


He wasn't very discreet the first time, which is why the posts were deleted, I'm sure.  It was fun talking to him before he went away.  I liked some of his answers, but the rest were still kind of double-talky.

Sayhello


----------



## tgeorge

sayhello said:


> He wasn't very discreet the first time, which is why the posts were deleted, I'm sure.  It was fun talking to him before he went away.  I liked some of his answers, but the rest were still kind of double-talky.
> 
> Sayhello



It was fun to read what you guys were asking him to explain. I still wonder exactly how he knew it was being talked about. That was a bit perplexing


----------



## sayhello

tgeorge said:


> It was fun to read what you guys were asking him to explain. I still wonder exactly how he knew it was being talked about. That was a bit perplexing


Some folks make it a point to google their company on a regular basis, just for this purpose.  The DISBoards frequently shows up when I google stuff.  Also, the link to their website was posted, tons of folks from this Forum followed that link to their website, I'm sure.  They could have been monitoring that traffic & where it originated.  Lots of possibilities.

Sayhello


----------



## carpenta

..........maybe he/ she moonlites for the NSA......LOL....


----------



## tgeorge

sayhello said:


> Some folks make it a point to google their company on a regular basis, just for this purpose.  The DISBoards frequently shows up when I google stuff.  Also, the link to their website was posted, tons of folks from this Forum followed that link to their website, I'm sure.  They could have been monitoring that traffic & where it originated.  Lots of possibilities.
> 
> Sayhello



All good points Sayhello!



carpenta said:


> ..........maybe he/ she moonlites for the NSA......LOL....



Hahaha, I like that option


----------



## RSM

There are alot of companies that sell software or services to monitor your brand or reputation on social media. You set keyword(s) and can track which sites it shows up on, where it shows up (e.g., twitter,...), what is being said, there are parsing tools to highlight positive/negative comments, etc.  The software I've seen can vary in price depending on the sophistication of the tool, but can be pretty inexpensive.  I'm oversimplifying, but hopefully you get the gist.


----------



## tgeorge

It is a good thing I'm in the Sciences and not computer technology


----------



## seema

calypso726 said:


> I agree with all of the points made by the previous posters. Let's see what TripAdvisor has to say about the accommodations:
> 
> GTDT - Dunkeld Country Estate gets 3.5 stars
> ABD - Table Bay Hotel gets 4.5 stars
> GTDT - Humala River Lodge can't find a review anywhere. Only thing I found were the "reviewers" with one post that came out of the woodwork on TripAdvisor to say positive things about GTDT. It cracks me up how someone is supposed to believe that 2, 3, 4, 5 different people all have the EXACT same writing style. Funny how they came out after someone said they were subjected to a timeshare presentation throughout their vacation to claim that doesn't happen.
> ABD - Kapama River Lodge gets 5 stars
> GTDT - Burgundy Apartments gets 3.5 stars
> ABD - Pezula Resort Hotel & Spa gets 4.5 stars
> 
> So ABD wins the accommodations category. The Radisson Blus I have stayed at outside of the US usually get 3.5 stars on TripAdvisor. If I weren't staying for free on points  from travel hacking I'd be most upset that I paid money to stay there unless it was really really cheap. I have been on 7 ABD trips and all of the accommodations have been great and a some were beyond amazing.
> 
> I doubt you will find a person that has done both an ABD South Africa tour and the GTD safari or Capetown tour. If you do it would likely be one of the "reviewers" with one post from TripAdvisor showing up here and "Earning their Ears" with a "review".
> 
> ABD is more expensive than other tour operators. Often times though, you get what you pay for. Two guides make a huge difference. There are other intangibles as well.
> 
> I don't see how the experiences can be equivalent. Anyone who is looking forward to an African safari is hoping to see the Big 5. Lions, Elephant, Leopard, Rhino, Cape Buffalo. A game reserve with no lions will not do.



I have found out that Humala Lodge is owned/managed by GTD and it opened this year - therefore that is why you can not really find any reviews. I found out that with GTD, one still has the option of staying at Katama; with Humala  - 3 days safari plus one day at Majojane; with Katama - three day safari.

GTD stated they are the largest tour company dealing with North American tourists taking tours in South Africa (whether safari or otherwise); over 1000 tours per year!

They believe in their tours are the best luxury tours (NOT budget tours) in terms of cost and quality (which company would not believe so - I am sure that ABD believes that is so for their company). So they ask all of the customers taking their tours to forward feedback within a short period of time after they have completed their tours. They state that very few of their reviews are worse then good or excellent. They try to deal with the few reviews expeditiously if they are worse than good. You will find very few negative reviews (except perhaps cost, which is the case for ABD as well) in other fora - including one thread on tripadvisor.com

Does ABD follow through with feedback - I would be interested in these reviews - whether for the South Africa tours or for any other tours.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

seema said:


> I have found out that Humala Lodge is owned/managed by GTD and it opened this year - therefore that is why you can not really find any reviews. I found out that with GTD, one still has the option of staying at Katama; with Humala  - 3 days safari plus one day at Majojane; with Katama - three day safari.
> 
> They believe in their tours are the best *luxury* tours (NOT budget tours) in terms of cost and quality (which company would not believe so - I am sure that ABD believes that is so for their company). So they ask all of the customers taking their tours to forward feedback within a short period of time after they have completed their tours. They state that very few of their reviews are worse then good or excellent. They try to deal with the few reviews expeditiously if they are worse than good. You will find very few negative reviews (except perhaps cost, which is the case for ABD as well) in other fora - including one thread on tripadvisor.com
> 
> Does ABD follow through with feedback - I would be interested in these reviews - whether for the South Africa tours or for any other tours.



Well if you insist on keeping this subject alive, may I suggest you take a look at the reviews for the _Burgundy Apartments_ in Cape Town:

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_R...y_Apartments-Bloubergstrand_Western_Cape.html

Now let's take a look at the lovely _Victoria & Albert Hotel_ that ABD uses on the V&A Waterfront (location, location, location):

https://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_R...red_Hotel-Cape_Town_Central_Western_Cape.html

And don't even get me started on the fact that you are virtually _stranded_ at the apartment complex since it is a 20 minute _drive_ from anywhere.  For SEVEN nights.  With no amenities.  They consider this luxury?  Really?  I think I have a completely different interpretation of the word.  I'd be miserable there for just one night; I can't fathom staying there 7 nights.  I would never even consider staying at an apartment complex so far removed from everything.

I must hasten to add that any tour company that considers a Hop on Hop off bus tour part of a guided tour is certainly one that I wouldn't ever use.

WRT to feedback.  ABD sends a survey to everyone at the end of their trip.  They take the feedback received from this survey very seriously.

There are plenty of new hotels and lodges that have opened in the past year that have dozens of reviews on TA.  I don't understand how the very remote Humala Lodge doesn't have a single one.  I find that strange in and of itself. As an aside you do understand that Humala is a _tented _camp?  Far different than Kapama which is a 5* luxury resort.

At the risk of repeating myself, I would take an ABD South Africa tour over GTD.  As a matter of fact I would never even consider GTD.

You should also know that the Songimelvo Reserve is very remote.  It is located on the border of S. Africa and Swaziland (nowhere near Kruger NP).  If you are headed here then I would seriously suggest flying into Nelspruit and having GTD drive you to the reserve as the drive from JNB would be long and likely most uncomfortable on many of the roads.

Of course they won't do this because they break up the drive from JNB to the reserve with 3 wasted days touring some isolated "attraction".  And guest what?  Surprise, surprise.  From an August, 2016 review of the Dunkeld Estates:  "_As humans we can addapt to adverse situations, and so we should. However, when paying good money to come and rest, this is NOT what one has in mind!  One can only hope that postings on a forum like this would get the guys of Go Touchdown to get off their Laurels and pull up their sock!!!_"

Wait a minute.  GTD has a vested interest in this property as well?  Well, go on TA yourself and read the reviews for this property.  It sounds like it is well past its heyday and is in need of some serious improvements.  Also sounds like a time share resort.

Plus there are no lions in this isolated reserve.  Do you really want to go on a safari and not see any lions?  Without trying to be cliche, I often think of the Elton John song, _Circle of Life_, when I think of a safari.  Which of course brings to mind Lion King.  So a safari without lions, to me at least, wouldn't be a safari.  Just my opinion of course.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

I just finished reading through a few of the reviews of the budget accommodations that GTD uses in Cape Town, namely the Burgundy Apartments, and lo and behold, guess who has replied to a few of the negative reviews?  I am pretty sure it wouldn't shock anyone on here if I said it was none other than GTD.

Am I the only one who sees a HUGE conflict of interest here?  GTD either owns or is a shareholder in the Burgundy Apartments AND the Humala Lodge.  To each their own I suppose but there is NO WAY I'd even consider this company.

As an aside ABD has SOLD OUT all of their summer, 2017 itineraries.  They were fully booked almost a year in advance.  That speaks volumes. 

I will reiterate that the tour ABD offers is a VERY good itinerary.  It covers the highlights of South Africa in a well laid out tour.  They have selected luxury accommodations in excellent locations.  I believe the price is worth every penny for what they offer.  WRT to GTD: caveat emptor.


----------



## calypso726

seema said:


> I have found out that Humala Lodge is owned/managed by GTD and it *opened this year - therefore that is why you can not really find any reviews.* I found out that with GTD, one still has the option of staying at Katama; with Humala  - 3 days safari plus one day at Majojane; with Katama - three day safari.
> 
> GTD stated they are the largest tour company dealing with North American tourists taking tours in South Africa (whether safari or otherwise); over 1000 tours per year!
> 
> 
> They believe in their tours are the best *luxury* tours (NOT budget tours) in terms of cost and quality (which company would not believe so - I am sure that ABD believes that is so for their company). So they ask all of the customers taking their tours to forward feedback within a short period of time after they have completed their tours. They state that very few of their reviews are worse then good or excellent. They try to deal with the few reviews expeditiously if they are worse than good. You will find very few negative reviews (except perhaps cost, which is the case for ABD as well) in other fora - including one thread on tripadvisor.com
> 
> Does ABD follow through with feedback - I would be interested in these reviews - whether for the South Africa tours or for any other tours.



Ok if that's the reason why then how do you explain other properties that just opened up this year and have reviews?  This place also opened up this year. https://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_R...eviews-Chobe_Water_Villas-Caprivi_Region.html They only have 16 water villas and already have 8 reviews on tripadvisor. You would think an operation running 1000 tours a year which is nearly 20 per week would have at least some reviews that could be found.

Luxury??? I don't think that word means what they think it means. All you have to do is compare the properties they list with what ABD lists. There is no comparison.

I have received a survey for every ABD I have done. Before I ever went on my first ABD I had concerns about an itinerary change and reached out to them. They followed up with me and were wonderful. You can find reviews on various ABD trips in the sticky titled Links to ABD Trip Reports. There are a couple of trip reports on South Africa in there.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

For those following along, the next instalment in my blog is up.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

For those following along, the next instalment in my blog is up.


----------



## Woodview

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> For those following along, the next instalment in my blog is up.




      I would   like you to send  on to me    the  link   to your blog   ... please .


----------



## Woodview

That was Quick ,

                  Thank you


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

Woodview said:


> That was Quick ,
> 
> Thank you



You're welcome. The joys of a smart phone. Lol


----------



## Ava

Does anyone here have experience with different tour companies for travel within the US? I've read through the thread and a lot of the experiences discussed are of overseas travel. I'm thinking about a Grand Canyon or other national parks trip for 2018, when my youngest will be 5, and I'd like to go with a group tour if I can find one I like that's affordable.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

Ava said:


> Does anyone here have experience with different tour companies for travel within the US? I've read through the thread and a lot of the experiences discussed are of overseas travel. I'm thinking about a Grand Canyon or other national parks trip for 2018, when my youngest will be 5, and I'd like to go with a group tour if I can find one I like that's affordable.



Nat Geo does have a number of really nice looking US based trips. Also you could take a look at G Adventures.


----------



## lttlmc3

I want a link to these blogs, please


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

I've just posted the next instalment for those following my blog. 



lttlmc3 said:


> I want a link to these blogs, please



I've responded to your pm with the link to the blog.


----------



## BluesTraveler

Cinderella's slipper, Could you send me a link to your blog?


----------



## acndis

Ava said:


> Does anyone here have experience with different tour companies for travel within the US? I've read through the thread and a lot of the experiences discussed are of overseas travel. I'm thinking about a Grand Canyon or other national parks trip for 2018, when my youngest will be 5, and I'd like to go with a group tour if I can find one I like that's affordable.


We are trying Austin Adventures in 2018. I can't recommend because we have not gone yet. They have lots of domestic itineraries and were really great through the booking process. We are doing Scotland but their prices are a bit lower than ABD. Generally, the trips are a bit shorter, too.


----------



## Woodview

Ava said:


> Does anyone here have experience with different tour companies for travel within the US? I've read through the thread and a lot of the experiences discussed are of overseas travel. I'm thinking about a Grand Canyon or other national parks trip for 2018, when my youngest will be 5, and I'd like to go with a group tour if I can find one I like that's affordable.




   There is  an European  Co     called    "  Trailfinders   "  who   do   Tours    within   USA  & Canada  .

          Maybe  you could   join  one of there  tours  .... starting  in  USA .

   They  also   do   World Wide    tours      ... so look them   up.


----------



## Judyat

Ava said:


> Does anyone here have experience with different tour companies for travel within the US? I've read through the thread and a lot of the experiences discussed are of overseas travel. I'm thinking about a Grand Canyon or other national parks trip for 2018, when my youngest will be 5, and I'd like to go with a group tour if I can find one I like that's affordable.



We have done a few ABD. We have also done Gate 1 travel, YMT tours and we are currently looking at Caravan for National Parks and tours in the US. I would recommend all of these companies.  No pixie dust but they do offer good tours with good accommodations and we have been pleased with what they offer at very affordable prices. In August we did thhe Pacific Northwest from Seattle to San Francisco with Gate 1. It was a wonderful trip. Everything is on their website from hotels to itineraries to airfare flights if you want to add that. Travel insurance is also available.


----------



## sayhello

Ava said:


> Does anyone here have experience with different tour companies for travel within the US? I've read through the thread and a lot of the experiences discussed are of overseas travel. I'm thinking about a Grand Canyon or other national parks trip for 2018, when my youngest will be 5, and I'd like to go with a group tour if I can find one I like that's affordable.


You might also take a look at Backroads.  They do a lot of Europe, also, but have a larger inventory of US trips than ABD.  Their trips tend to be more active than cultural, so it depends on what you're looking for.  They're not cheap, and their trips tend to be shorter (5 to 6 days) but ABD seemed to have based a lot of their original operating policies on Backroads.  Chris Brown, one of ABD's long time Adventure Guides also guided for Backroads. 

Sayhello


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

For anyone following along, I've posted the next instalment.


----------



## jenbadeaux

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> For anyone following along, I've posted the next instalment.


Can you pm me the link to your trip report, cinderella's slipper?  TIA


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

For those of you following along, I've posted the next instalment of my blog. Our first full day in Vienna.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

For those following along, the final 2 instalments of my blog are posted.


----------



## Chirple

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> For those following along, the final 2 instalments of my blog are posted.



Hi Cinderella's Slipper 2015, would you share the link to your blog with me?  Thanks!


----------



## McPackers

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> For anyone following along, I've posted the next instalment.


Would you invite me please?


----------



## RebelHawk

Cinderella's Slipper, can you please provide me with the link to the blog about your trip?

Thank you,

Tom


----------



## EllinK

A&K
Just received the A&K Family catalogue for 2017 and the Iceland trip looks amazing! Has anyone traveled with them? Would love to hear about a personal experience.


----------



## EllinK

Hmm. Yelp reviews for A&K are not great. Bummer.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

EllinK said:


> Hmm. Yelp reviews for A&K are not great. Bummer.



Don't trust everything you read on Yelp.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> Don't trust everything you read on Yelp.



ITA.  Abercrombie and Kent are a VERY high end tour operator with a stellar reputation.  If you see a trip that intrigues you and it's within your budget, then I would book them without hesitation.  I've come very close a few times but haven't for various reasons.  I am VERY seriously considering them for an Antarctic family cruise next December.  I just can't commit this far in advance.


----------



## EllinK

Thanks for the feedback on A&K.


----------



## kmc33

A couple questions for the Tauck travelers...  have you booked directly with Tauck or with an agent?  I am not sure which is better.  If anyone has an agent they have used for Tauck that they really like, could you give me their name?  If not permissible here, then please message me.
Also, we are finally planning to book the Italia Bella trip through Tauck.  I know I received some really good on here, but I want to double check.  We would be two adults and a older teenager (getting ready to enter his senior year in high school).  Would we be out of place?  I have had two agents warn me that this trip is for kids.
Thanks for the help!!


----------



## tink1970

Kim,
My DH and I went on the Tauck Italia Bella trip Christmas 2015 (without my DD).

It was "last minute" (ie 3 months prior) and we booked directly with Tauck. I've always had quite good interactions with their operators and I'm unaware of a ta in my town that works a lot with them so I just did it myself and had no problems whatsoever. 

I don't know if it was because we were on the Christmas trip or not, but the majority of the "kids" were college/high school aged. There was only one 10 year old who was very well behaved. I'm sure summer trips will have more variety, but the teens and young adults were all well traveled and with one or two exceptions, well behaved (to be fair- this is probably more of a difference in parenting styles) and a pleasure to be around. The group seemed to click very quickly and enjoyed themselves a lot.

I really wanted to return and take my DD on this trip this summer, alas, she is going with a school group to Europe without me. Guess that's my way of saying I wouldn't hesitate.


----------



## carpenta

WE did the Tauck Italia Bella trip 3 years ago. We booked directly with Tauck and it went very smooth. On our trip the kids were mostly 13 yrs. to 20 years and a sprinkling in between. Our daughter was 14 at the time and fit in well with the others. We have done 4 Tauck trips so far and booked Costa Rica next year with them and find the kids skew a little older. In general and we booked Tauck because our daughter in 17 now and find the "kids" more in her range. Loved the Italy trip and our guide was one of the BEST we ever have encounted.


----------



## Bobo912

kmc33 said:


> A couple questions for the Tauck travelers...  have you booked directly with Tauck or with an agent?  I am not sure which is better.  If anyone has an agent they have used for Tauck that they really like, could you give me their name?  If not permissible here, then please message me.
> Also, we are finally planning to book the Italia Bella trip through Tauck.  I know I received some really good on here, but I want to double check.  We would be two adults and a older teenager (getting ready to enter his senior year in high school).  Would we be out of place?  I have had two agents warn me that this trip is for kids.
> Thanks for the help!!



I haven't taken the Italia Bella trip, but I've done two other Tauck Bridges trips, both in July, and on both there was a good mix ages among the kids, including teenagers.  I don't think your teenager would feel out of place.  I wouldn't call them trips for kids.  Like ABD, there are great activities that people of all ages can enjoy.  And occasionally throughout the trip, the guides will do something special with the kids.  

I booked both trips directly with Tauck and always had a good experience dealing with them.  If you're a AAA member, I believe they also offer Tauck trips.  I didn't know that when I booked our trips or I might have used them if there was some advantage.  I'm not sure if they offer any type of incentives.


----------



## kaseyC

We've done two Tauck Bridges tours - Ireland Forever in 2015 and Majestic California in 2016.  My DDs are teens 14&12 on the Ireland trip and 15&13 on the California trip.  I would say that the majority of kids were teens on both trips.  We had one or two 20yr olds and the rest were in 12-18 range.

I booked both of my trips through a travel agency.  I found them from reading a few travel blogs from Tauck travelers.  They are a big seller of Truck has well as other guided tour companies and types of travel.  They also gave a $150.00 gift card pp to the store of your choice.  So for the 3 of us that was like $450 bonus.  Very easy to work with and quite knowledgeable.

edited to remove link.  Message me and I will send you a link.


----------



## kmc33

Thank your for the responses! I thought I read the age range for the "kids" can be older.  We have done 2 ABDs previously and there were guests with us that didn't have kids with them or were traveling with adult children.  So I didn't think too much of requesting a quote for three "adults" for TB.  I think the agents were just being thorough. 

I got a quote from the agency you used kaseyC.  Thank you for the feedback.  I think that is who we might go with.

As much as I enjoyed our ABD trips, the TB Italy looks like a better fit for us.  And right now they have a special on airfare to Europe for $890.  We can't come anywhere close to that rate out of our airport.

Thanks again for the help! You guys are the best!!


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

For anyone that is interested, I'm getting ready to head off to South East Asia with National Geographic Adventures in a week's time (we leave next Wednesday, February 1). Our trip officially starts on February 4th but we are arriving a day and half early so have booked a private full day excursion to Cai Be as well as a half-day cooking class. I plan on writing about it all in my blog when I return. I can't do it while we're on the trip as we will have very limited access to the internet. I will let you know when we're back and how the trip went, as this is our first non-ABD trip but I already really like dealing with Nat Geo and I will let you know when the blog starts going up again.

We are contemplating where our 2018 plans will take us. We are not sure if we will stay with Nat Geo as there are a number of great trips we want to do with them but there is also an amazing train trip through Europe that we are seriously considering with G Adventures (they run a number of the Nat Geo Journeys trips).


----------



## carpenta

Hope you have a wonderful trip Cinderella's Slipper. Waiting here to read all about it. Cheers!


----------



## carpenta

kmc33 said:


> Thank your for the responses! I thought I read the age range for the "kids" can be older.  We have done 2 ABDs previously and there were guests with us that didn't have kids with them or were traveling with adult children.  So I didn't think too much of requesting a quote for three "adults" for TB.  I think the agents were just being thorough.
> 
> I got a quote from the agency you used kaseyC.  Thank you for the feedback.  I think that is who we might go with.
> 
> As much as I enjoyed our ABD trips, the TB Italy looks like a better fit for us.  And right now they have a special on airfare to Europe for $890.  We can't come anywhere close to that rate out of our airport.
> 
> Thanks again for the help! You guys are the best!!



......on our T.B. Italy trip there was an older couple with no kids on our trip. After the first day or so the kids bond and parents interact as if the kids are not there. Have a wonderful trip.


----------



## kaseyC

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> For anyone that is interested, I'm getting ready to head off to South East Asia with National Geographic Adventures in a week's time (we leave next Wednesday, February 1). Our trip officially starts on February 4th but we are arriving a day and half early so have booked a private full day excursion to Cai Be as well as a half-day cooking class. I plan on writing about it all in my blog when I return. I can't do it while we're on the trip as we will have very limited access to the internet. I will let you know when we're back and how the trip went, as this is our first non-ABD trip but I already really like dealing with Nat Geo and I will let you know when the blog starts going up again.
> 
> We are contemplating where our 2018 plans will take us. We are not sure if we will stay with Nat Geo as there are a number of great trips we want to do with them but there is also an amazing train trip through Europe that we are seriously considering with G Adventures (they run a number of the Nat Geo Journeys trips).



Have a great trip.  I look forward to reading your trip report on your blog.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Have a great trip. We're doing Nat Geo Patagonia in the Fall and our trip was guaranteed last week. Super excited--it's our second trip with Nat Geo--and can't wait to hear your thoughts.


----------



## Lulu27

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> For anyone that is interested, I'm getting ready to head off to South East Asia with National Geographic Adventures in a week's time (we leave next Wednesday, February 1). Our trip officially starts on February 4th but we are arriving a day and half early so have booked a private full day excursion to Cai Be as well as a half-day cooking class. I plan on writing about it all in my blog when I return. I can't do it while we're on the trip as we will have very limited access to the internet. I will let you know when we're back and how the trip went, as this is our first non-ABD trip but I already really like dealing with Nat Geo and I will let you know when the blog starts going up again.
> 
> We are contemplating where our 2018 plans will take us. We are not sure if we will stay with Nat Geo as there are a number of great trips we want to do with them but there is also an amazing train trip through Europe that we are seriously considering with G Adventures (they run a number of the Nat Geo Journeys trips).



Have a great trip! Can't wait to hear about it!


----------



## Bobo912

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> Have a great trip. We're doing Nat Geo Patagonia in the Fall and our trip was guaranteed last week. Super excited--it's our second trip with Nat Geo--and can't wait to hear your thoughts.



I would love to hear your impression of this trip when you get back.  Patagonia is on my short list for 2018.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Bobo912 said:


> I would love to hear your impression of this trip when you get back.  Patagonia is on my short list for 2018.


We'll definitely report back. Going with a friend who also posts here so you'll probably get two opinions


----------



## Calfan

Bobo912 said:


> I would love to hear your impression of this trip when you get back.  Patagonia is on my short list for 2018.





CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> We'll definitely report back. Going with a friend who also posts here so you'll probably get two opinions



That would be me, and we'll definitely report back.  This will be my third NatGeo trip.  The first two have been fantastic.


----------



## Woodview

Has anyone seen the  Christmas  Market   river  trip   by  AMA Waterways ?

 view         enews@amawterways.com


----------



## Calfan

Woodview said:


> Has anyone seen the  Christmas  Market   river  trip   by  AMA Waterways ?
> 
> view         enews@amawterways.com



I've looked at it and also Uniworld. From inquiries I made of both companies, Uniworld seems to offer the more family friendly holiday markets river cruises.  We are planning to do either ABD or Uniworld in December 2018.


----------



## Aulika

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> For anyone following along, I've posted the next instalment.


Can you send me the link to your blog ?
Thank you !


----------



## tink1970

@Woodview- the abd we did over Christmas was on AMA. It was just DH and me and everything was wonderful. He wants to return to them in the future for a vacation   I can't say enough good things about the ship, crew, etc.


----------



## EllinK

Just got an email that Thompson Family Adventures has added a trip to Japan.


----------



## Calfan

EllinK said:


> Just got an email that Thompson Family Adventures has added a trip to Japan.



I saw that too and should have thought to post. They were offering first dibs to their past travelers.  We won't be able to do it this first year since we already have our plans set, but I've asked my contact at Thomson for the full itinerary so we can evaluate it.  We are planning on Japan in 2020 for my daughter's 18th birthday trip.


----------



## hilarys

Calfan said:


> I saw that too and should have thought to post. They were offering first dibs to their past travelers.  We won't be able to do it this first year since we already have our plans set, but I've asked my contact at Thomson for the full itinerary so we can evaluate it.  We are planning on Japan in 2020 for my daughter's 18th birthday trip.



We have talked about Japan in 2020 to co-incide with the Olympics.  Will need to look at this trip.


----------



## Calfan

hilarys said:


> We have talked about Japan in 2020 to co-incide with the Olympics.  Will need to look at this trip.



It would be awesome to end up on the same Japan trip in 2020   When I get the itinerary (I'm going to ping my contact again), I'll send it to you.


----------



## disneyphx

We are thinking Japan for 2020 for the Olympics too - Opening Ceremony is a bucket list for me!
The Thomson Azores looks cool too


----------



## Calfan

disneyphx said:


> We are thinking Japan for 2020 for the Olympics too - Opening Ceremony is a bucket list for me!
> The Thomson Azores looks cool too



We could have an ABD Central Europe reunion in Japan in 2020!  That would be so much fun. 

Just got the full Japan itinerary from Thomson.  I'll send it to you and hilarys.  My contact also just sent me the following:

"…now, I know 2020 is a_ looong_ way away. But, if you and your friends/family are definitely interested, we’d be happy to guarantee 2017 prices for your 2020 trip if you book by the end of March 2017. I’m sure you can’t even begin to plan that far out..but if you can, this is a great opportunity. We all know the prices are bound to go up year after year."


----------



## RSM

EllinK said:


> Just got an email that Thompson Family Adventures has added a trip to Japan.


 We just booked for 2018 (no dates yet, but locked in the price).  We were debating between this and Nat Geo's Tokyo to Sacred Kumano trip.  The itineraries are somewhat similar.  Both are pretty light on Tokyo, so we are going to add on at the start and do a couple of days in Tokyo and a couple of days in the Mt. Fuji area so that we can climb Mt. Fuji for sunrise (it's a bucket list thing).


----------



## Calfan

RSM said:


> We just booked for 2018 (no dates yet, but locked in the price).  We were debating between this and Nat Geo's Tokyo to Sacred Kumano trip.  The itineraries are somewhat similar.  Both are pretty light on Tokyo, so we are going to add on at the start and do a couple of days in Tokyo and a couple of days in the Mt. Fuji area so that we can climb Mt. Fuji for sunrise (it's a bucket list thing).



I just finished looking at the full itinerary.  The trip is shorter than some I have seen, but it looks really good.  I love that it includes activities like hiking, bike riding and a jet boat ride.  We'd almost certainly add on time in Tokyo for more exploring and also to hit Tokyo Disney, and if we could get tickets to the Olympics Opening Ceremony as others have mentioned, that would be fantastic. I also really like your idea about Mt. Fuji.  I'm actually really tempted to plunk down a deposit for 2020 to lock in the 2017 pricing!


----------



## Calfan

Calfan said:


> I just finished looking at the full itinerary.  The trip is shorter than some I have seen, but it looks really good.  I love that it includes activities like hiking, bike riding and a jet boat ride.  We'd almost certainly add on time in Tokyo for more exploring and also to hit Tokyo Disney, and if we could get tickets to the Olympics Opening Ceremony as others have mentioned, that would be fantastic. I also really like your idea about Mt. Fuji.  I'm actually really tempted to plunk down a deposit for 2020 to lock in the 2017 pricing!



Kind of funny that I'm now quoting myself here, but just wanted to take back the part of the post above about the Thomson trip being on the shorter side.  It's actually the same length as the NatGeo and A&K family itineraries I've been looking at.


----------



## AdamEfimoff

which one?


----------



## calypso726

Sorry Adam, but I don't quite understand the question. Maybe I'm not the only one that doesn't.  What is ONY? I Google'd it but didn't come up with anything that related to group tours or that helped clarify the question. I'd be happy to help try and answer the question except I'm just not sure what you are asking.


----------



## tgeorge

Totally off topic,but I'm glad to hear that others have to Google things to see what they are.

Perhaps he meant 'On Your Own' or group??


----------



## sayhello

calypso726 said:


> Sorry Adam, but I don't quite understand the question. Maybe I'm not the only one that doesn't.  What is ONY? I Google'd it but didn't come up with anything that related to group tours or that helped clarify the question. I'd be happy to help try and answer the question except I'm just not sure what you are asking.


You're not the only one confused...  

Sayhello


----------



## AdamEfimoff

Can the @ADMIN change it to OMO On my own. I know this is a little off topic. But I am guessing some have been to SA.
I am looking at Kruger and Cape Town and Stellnbouch


ps. I plan many trips


----------



## sayhello

tgeorge said:


> Totally off topic,but I'm glad to hear that others have to Google things to see what they are.
> 
> Perhaps he meant 'On Your Own' or group??


ALL THE TIME!!!  I actually have freinds who get mad at me if I ask them what something they mention is instead of Googling it. 



AdamEfimoff said:


> Can the @ADMIN change it to OMO On my own


You can edit it yourself. You should see "Thread tools" at the top of the thread, and if you hit that, "Edit Title" is one of the options.

But I still don't know what an OMO is, either.

Sayhello


----------



## calypso726

Ah gotcha! So the question is whether South Africa is better to do on your own vs a group tour. Well, I know there are several who post here that have been to South Africa, some with Adventures by Disney and some with a different tour operator. I imagine anyone that frequents this forum and has done it on their own, will chime in. 

I haven't done South Africa yet but it is on my short list of Adventures by Disney trips for 2019. Personally, I'd rather avoid the planning and this is coming from someone who likes to plan out trips. There are 3 internal flights that are part of the itinerary which means more logistics that I don't have to figure out and plan.  The ABD itinerary seems great except I wish they'd add Victoria Falls to it but I can always do that as post trip add-on. Even if I chose to not go with ABD, which is highly unlikely, as I've been very happy with ABD, I'd sooner explore another tour operator than do it on my own. So that's my two cents


----------



## calypso726

tgeorge said:


> Totally off topic,but I'm glad to hear that others have to Google things to see what they are.
> 
> Perhaps he meant 'On Your Own' or group??



Yup, all the time. No kids to help keep me updated with all the latest colloquialisms and internet shorthand, so Google it is.


----------



## Rapunzellover

disneyphx said:


> The Thomson Azores looks cool too



THE AZORES!!!!!????  My dream vacay.  I hate Thompson for not allowing solos!


----------



## sayhello

Rapunzellover said:


> THE AZORES!!!!!????  My dream vacay.  I hate Thompson for not allowing solos!


Join the club.  For some reason, I got contacted by them a few days ago by email, and the guy asked where I was looking to go, and how old my kids were.  When I said I had no kids, he wrote back:

"We generally don't do singles travel.  We specialize in family travel and have for 18 years. Occasionally one of our trips ends up being only adults, but it's rare and unplanned.

Let me ask you this:
Would it just be you or would you have some friends/family to join?
Do you have a budget in mind?

If you have a group I can let our sister company Thomson Collections know and they can help you plan a more adult friendly adventure."

I replied:

"So you discriminate against singles?  I've traveled as a solo traveler with other family travel companies, and while there was always a single supplement, I was never turned away, either for Adult only or family trips.  I'm signed up for a family trip to China for this summer, and am traveling solo.  There was no question of not allowing me to travel with them.  I've heard good things about your company, but obviously it's not going to work traveling with you.

If I had a group of family/friends to travel with, I wouldn't be traveling solo.  I think that's rather a silly question.

I can't afford a custom trip just for myself. "

That got his attention.  I'm still contemplating my response to his latest reply. 

"I am so sorry you misunderstood. Our itineraries are all designed for families traveling with children. We have in the past allowed adults without children to join our groups but we have learned their travel goals are different than adults traveling with children. We want you to be on the right trip and in general we don’t think that’s with us. We do not discriminate against anybody and we are more than willing to talk about this via phone"

Sayhello


----------



## Rapunzellover

Sayhello-  ugh.  Just ugh.  But whatever.  I'm Azorean American and I've been to a couple of the islands before.  I'll go back eventually with another company.  Their loss.  Another company's gain.


----------



## AdamEfimoff

calypso726 said:


> Ah gotcha! So the question is whether South Africa is better to do on your own vs a group tour. Well, I know there are several who post here that have been to South Africa, some with Adventures by Disney and some with a different tour operator. I imagine anyone that frequents this forum and has done it on their own, will chime in.
> 
> I haven't done South Africa yet but it is on my short list of Adventures by Disney trips for 2019. Personally, I'd rather avoid the planning and this is coming from someone who likes to plan out trips. There are 3 internal flights that are part of the itinerary which means more logistics that I don't have to figure out and plan.  The ABD itinerary seems great except I wish they'd add Victoria Falls to it but I can always do that as post trip add-on. Even if I chose to not go with ABD, which is highly unlikely, as I've been very happy with ABD, I'd sooner explore another tour operator than do it on my own. So that's my two cents


I am thinking of maybe using a dmc worried about safety


----------



## calypso726

AdamEfimoff said:


> I am thinking of maybe using a dmc worried about safety



Safety is one of the reasons we book with Adventures By Disney. China is on our list for 2018 and I feel much safer with ABD, same with South Africa. I know there are some South Africa trip reports in the trip reports sticky.


----------



## AdamEfimoff

Looking for some more high end than abd. I am never going to china I think its safe but the pollution the pollution the pollution


----------



## calypso726

AdamEfimoff said:


> Looking for some more high end than abd. I am never going to china I think its safe but the pollution the pollution the pollution



You know the pollution was one of my concerns. However, reports from previous travelers to China with ABD have not shown the awful pollution that we see from China on social media. So, maybe it is in certain areas. Mainland China is bigger than the lower 48 here. Thinking back to the 70's as a child I can remember smog and air pollution, severe smog, being a huge concern in Los Angeles. It was bad. You'd see the news and think to yourself, geez how is anyone still alive? Meanwhile here in Florida the air was fine. So, maybe China is like the USA in 70's when it comes to air pollution. I'd like to go before it gets worse. 

I am fairly certain some here have done Africa with other tour operators. If memory serves @familygoboston did an Africa tour with a higher end company based in Minnesota called Travel Beyond and was very pleased with what they were able to provide.


----------



## Burgundy Rose

*Sayhello*, their response is ludicrous. 'No we're not discriminating against single travellers, we just don't think single travellers are a good fit for us so we're turning them away', in other words - ''We're not saying no because you're alone, we're saying no because you're alone.' Thanks for posting about this, I don't have any plans to travel solo in the near future but I might at some point and it's good to know which companies to avoid.


----------



## sayhello

calypso726 said:


> You know the pollution was one of my concerns. However, reports from previous travelers to China with ABD have not shown the awful pollution that we see from China on social media. So, maybe it is in certain areas. Mainland China is bigger than the lower 48 here. Thinking back to the 70's as a child I can remember smog and air pollution, severe smog, being a huge concern in Los Angeles. It was bad. You'd see the news and think to yourself, geez how is anyone still alive? Meanwhile here in Florida the air was fine. So, maybe China is like the USA in 70's when it comes to air pollution. I'd like to go before it gets worse.


I sure hope you're right!  That's been my hope, too!

Sayhello


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

I'm going on my own in June.  I can let you know how it goes when we get back.  I researched all the parks in excruciating detail and made the decision about where I wanted to go.  Then I had to work that in with my travel from Amsterdam (which flight would work best).  

I am staying at 2 Singita lodges (Ebony and Lebombo).  From Ebony we are flying via Nelspruit to Cape Town for 4 days.  There we have 4 nights and 3 days -- 2 of the days we have private guides booked (one day wine country and the other a coastal tour) and the the third day I booked a private walk with cheetah cubs at a cheetah rescue sanctuary just outside of Cape Town.  Then we will tour some of the markets.

From Cape Town we are flying to Livingstone via Jo'Burg to see Victoria Falls.  We will stay at the Tongabezi Lodge for 3 nights.  During our time there we will take a helicopter flight over the falls, go on a Zambezi River Cruise and experience an authentic BOMA dinner.

I am so happy that I booked on our own.  We will be coming from the ABD Rhine River Cruise and that is enough time with a group for me.  My teenage daughter is not excited that we won't be with other families in S. Africa but I really, really wanted to experience Kruger NP.  Plus Singita is supposed to be quite luxurious and that really appealed to me.  Also Victoria Falls is a must for me -- if I'm going all the way to S. Africa then I'm going to make the effort to get to Zambia to see the falls.  

Singita has some excellent promos if you travel in off season.  We got 1 night free (stay 7 nights and pay for 6) and our internal flight between the 2 lodges was free as well.  Also since my daughter is under 16 she was half price.  So that made it more affordable for us.  Singita is located in the highly-regarded Sabi Sands game reserve and I believe has the largest traversing rights in Kruger.  If not the largest, then right up there.

Our trip is costing significantly more than ABD, but some of that is attributed to our extra time in Livingstone.  I just as easily could've booked a tour that was half the cost of ABD.  It just depends on your travel preferences and budget.

The agent at Singita ended up booking everything for us, including Cape Town and Livingstone and all of our internal flights.  She is excellent.

Planning the trip was exhausting as I researched for a very long time to get everything just right.  My current plan is to go to Tanzania in June, 2018 and we will do a private tour.  I definitely want to see the great migration and the only way to be guaranteed that is to book a stay with a mobile camp.  The mobile lodges are too small to accommodate tour groups.  But my plans are fluid until I have paid a deposit!

Good luck with your planning!


----------



## sayhello

Rapunzellover said:


> Sayhello-  ugh.  Just ugh.  But whatever.  I'm Azorean American and I've been to a couple of the islands before.  I'll go back eventually with another company.  Their loss.  Another company's gain.


Totally their loss!  I like some of their itineraries, but I've lost all interest in traveling with a company that is so non-inclusive and obviously doesn't want me there or want my business.  I may still call him, just to see what he says, but I don't expect much.



Burgundy Rose said:


> *Sayhello*, their response is ludicrous. 'No we're not discriminating against single travellers, we just don't think single travellers are a good fit for us so we're turning them away', in other words - ''We're not saying no because you're alone, we're saying no because you're alone.' Thanks for posting about this, I don't have any plans to travel solo in the near future but I might at some point and it's good to know which companies to avoid.


Ludicrous is a very good word for it.  I think if people without children are uncomfortable on their trips, it says way more about them and the way they run their trips than it does about adults who travel without children...

Sayhello


----------



## Calfan

Rapunzellover said:


> Sayhello-  ugh.  Just ugh.  But whatever.  I'm Azorean American and I've been to a couple of the islands before.  I'll go back eventually with another company.  Their loss.  Another company's gain.





Burgundy Rose said:


> *Sayhello*, their response is ludicrous. 'No we're not discriminating against single travellers, we just don't think single travellers are a good fit for us so we're turning them away', in other words - ''We're not saying no because you're alone, we're saying no because you're alone.' Thanks for posting about this, I don't have any plans to travel solo in the near future but I might at some point and it's good to know which companies to avoid.





sayhello said:


> Totally their loss!  I like some of their itineraries, but I've lost all interest in traveling with a company that is so non-inclusive and obviously doesn't want me there or want my business.  I may still call him, just to see what he says, but I don't expect much.
> 
> Ludicrous is a very good word for it.  I think if people without children are uncomfortable on their trips, it says way more about them and the way they run their trips than it does about adults who travel without children...
> 
> Sayhello



I'm disappointed about Thomson's attitude on this. Our China trip with them was just fantastic, and I don't think an adult solo traveler would have felt out of place or would not have enjoyed any of the activities we did. They definitely weren't geared toward young children at all.


----------



## Rapunzellover

I totally agree with Sayhello- If people feel out of place, it's company's fault. Not the client.


----------



## AdamEfimoff

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I'm going on my own in June.  I can let you know how it goes when we get back.  I researched all the parks in excruciating detail and made the decision about where I wanted to go.  Then I had to work that in with my travel from Amsterdam (which flight would work best).
> 
> I am staying at 2 Singita lodges (Ebony and Lebombo).  From Ebony we are flying via Nelspruit to Cape Town for 4 days.  There we have 4 nights and 3 days -- 2 of the days we have private guides booked (one day wine country and the other a coastal tour) and the the third day I booked a private walk with cheetah cubs at a cheetah rescue sanctuary just outside of Cape Town.  Then we will tour some of the markets.
> 
> From Cape Town we are flying to Livingstone via Jo'Burg to see Victoria Falls.  We will stay at the Tongabezi Lodge for 3 nights.  During our time there we will take a helicopter flight over the falls, go on a Zambezi River Cruise and experience an authentic BOMA dinner.
> 
> I am so happy that I booked on our own.  We will be coming from the ABD Rhine River Cruise and that is enough time with a group for me.  My teenage daughter is not excited that we won't be with other families in S. Africa but I really, really wanted to experience Kruger NP.  Plus Singita is supposed to be quite luxurious and that really appealed to me.  Also Victoria Falls is a must for me -- if I'm going all the way to S. Africa then I'm going to make the effort to get to Zambia to see the falls.
> 
> Singita has some excellent promos if you travel in off season.  We got 1 night free (stay 7 nights and pay for 6) and our internal flight between the 2 lodges was free as well.  Also since my daughter is under 16 she was half price.  So that made it more affordable for us.  Singita is located in the highly-regarded Sabi Sands game reserve and I believe has the largest traversing rights in Kruger.  If not the largest, then right up there.
> 
> Our trip is costing significantly more than ABD, but some of that is attributed to our extra time in Livingstone.  I just as easily could've booked a tour that was half the cost of ABD.  It just depends on your travel preferences and budget.
> 
> The agent at Singita ended up booking everything for us, including Cape Town and Livingstone and all of our internal flights.  She is excellent.
> 
> Planning the trip was exhausting as I researched for a very long time to get everything just right.  My current plan is to go to Tanzania in June, 2018 and we will do a private tour.  I definitely want to see the great migration and the only way to be guaranteed that is to book a stay with a mobile camp.  The mobile lodges are too small to accommodate tour groups.  But my plans are fluid until I have paid a deposit!
> 
> Good luck with your planning!



Singita is 3000 a night. I am still really 'sick' about even considering such an option. Been to Four Seasons George V and London and even with Virutsio I am not sure if it would be worth it. It will be quite a while before I can pick such a scary option. Even if we have the money. Even when agents rave about it. My parents have banned me from travelling alone so they pay not sure why


----------



## Pamlur

If you want to talk to a high-end tour director, our group used Kerr and Downey.  We originally contacted the office in Houston (I think; it was a long time ago), but there is also an office in Cape Town.  They do an incredible job.


----------



## RSM

I think it is their loss that they don't allow singles, especially if as Calfan says a single wouldn't be uncomfortable.  We've actually seen the opposite side as we've researched trips over the years.  There seems to be many more companies that don't allow children.  Many will coordinate a private trip, but it gets expensive.  I've never really considered it to be discriminatory against people with children, just more what their target market is.


----------



## aggiedog

I am in NO WAY implying anything about single travelers, especially those here.  But do you think Thomson's policy is a misguided attempt to prevent pedophiles from attaching themselves to tours that cater to families with kids?  Kind of a "why would anyone want to go on a family trip that doesn't have family?  There must be something wrong with them?"

It's not like a banning singles makes any sort of sense, even monetarily.  Again, not implying anything.  I've met delightful single travelers over the years. In fact, I'm a bit in awe over them.  I'm so used to traveling in a crowd (we are a travel family of 8)  the thought of going anywhere by myself makes me nervous.


----------



## EllinK

Just my 2 cents as someone who travelled a lot on my own in my 20's and 30's, at the age that I am now, if I was single I would definitely want to travel with families. On adult only trips I would be concerned about being the only one without a partner or being hit on by single men.


----------



## Rapunzellover

I'm 37 Elin, and feel the same way.  If I'm on a tour, I want safety, and comfort.  

Aggiedog-  I suspect you may have a point about why they do this, but it's still ridiculous of them.


----------



## sayhello

aggiedog said:


> I am in NO WAY implying anything about single travelers, especially those here.  But do you think Thomson's policy is a misguided attempt to prevent pedophiles from attaching themselves to tours that cater to families with kids?  Kind of a "why would anyone want to go on a family trip that doesn't have family?  There must be something wrong with them?"
> 
> It's not like a banning singles makes any sort of sense, even monetarily.  Again, not implying anything.  I've met delightful single travelers over the years. In fact, I'm a bit in awe over them.  I'm so used to traveling in a crowd (we are a travel family of 8)  the thought of going anywhere by myself makes me nervous.


I suppose that's a possibility.  But you don't think that constitutes discrimination against singles to make such an assumption?  "_Kind of a "why would anyone want to go on a family trip that doesn't have family? There must be something wrong with them?"_"  I find even the idea of that truly appalling.  *ETA: *I have to add here how much this bothers me.  I know it wasn't your intention, but the presupposition here that pedophiles are single people, and don't have families and kids of their own is highly prejudicial, and honestly, incorrect.



EllinK said:


> Just my 2 cents as someone who travelled a lot on my own in my 20's and 30's, at the age that I am now, if I was single I would definitely want to travel with families. On adult only trips I would be concerned about being the only one without a partner or being hit on by single men.


Actually, I adore Adults only trips, because it allows the adults the freedom to *act* like children, without having to worry about how it would look to their kids, or the necessity to be an adult for their kids.  I've been the only single on a trip; I've been one of a few singles.  I've never felt like the single guys were hitting on me.  But then, I've only done adult only trips with 2 companies, Backroads & ABD.  Maybe it would be worse with other companies; I really can't say.  But that's never been a concern for me either way.  It's not like taking a "singles cruise" or something.  I've always felt totally included by the folks on my trips, both Adult Only and family.  How much of that is ABD and how much of it is me, I couldn't say.



Rapunzellover said:


> I'm 37 Elin, and feel the same way.  If I'm on a tour, I want safety, and comfort.
> 
> Aggiedog-  I suspect you may have a point about why they do this, but it's still ridiculous of them.


I want safety and comfort, and I've found that on both Adult Only *and* family ABD's.

Sayhello


----------



## tgeorge

Honestly, it is completely ridiculous. If they inform you that there are mostly families as an 'FYI' them you know and can make that decision. Same goes for a trip that has an older demographic (Tauck, for example). If they are so worried about guests possibly being put off because they weren't 'aware' of the itinerary, then they could always have you sign an agreement stating you understand it is a more family focused trip and some of the itinerary may focus on children. If that is okay with you (the person paying the $$), why should it matter? 

Honestly, if DISNEY is okay with single, solo travelers, why in Earth wouldn't other tour groups???


----------



## sayhello

tgeorge said:


> Honestly, it is completely ridiculous. If they inform you that there are mostly families as an 'FYI' them you know and can make that decision. Same goes for a trip that has an older demographic (Tauck, for example). If they are so worried about guests possibly being put off because they weren't 'aware' of the itinerary, then they could always have you sign an agreement stating you understand it is a more family focused trip and some of the itinerary may focus on children. If that is okay with you (the person paying the $$), why should it matter?
> 
> Honestly, if DISNEY is okay with single, solo travelers, why in Earth wouldn't other tour groups???


I totally agree with this!  I knew what I was signing up for when I booked my first ABD, and have known for each one since.  If I'm OK with the itinerary, why shouldn't they be OK with me doing it?  If they have had problems with people not expecting what the trip was, they need to spend more time explaining it to them, not barring people from taking them.

Sayhello


----------



## Rapunzellover

Amen, tgeorge and sayhello.  I'm insulted at how Thompson and Tauck (which suggested I was too young for one of their trips) think they know what I want more than I myself do.


----------



## Woodview

Maybe  you should look at     the Tour Group       TUI       International      ( Europe )


----------



## sayhello

Woodview said:


> Maybe  you should look at     the Tour Group       TUI       International      ( Europe )


I cannot find a USA website for this company. 

I did find an Indian website and Trident University International.

Sayhello


----------



## aggiedog

Sayhello, I completely understand.  Marginally related - a very good, guy friend of mine mentored a middle school boy for awhile.  Until the father corned him and asked him if he was a pedophile.  My friend was appalled, hurt, and was actually crying to me.  He could understand from the father's point of view, but he was still appalled anyone could think that of him.  No accusations from the kid, no actual accusations from the father.  The father just couldn't understand why any 20 year old man would be interested in mentoring a young boy.  

So, I'm not agreeing with the policy, even if that is the reason (which I am sure they would never admit to.)  I also agree that no travel agency should decide what you will or won't like (age, singles, family, adult only, etc.)  It's a bit Big Brother to tell you "this trip isn't your cup of tea."


----------



## Woodview

It is not  a  USA   Site

You can   make your own Flight     tickets   to Ireland     Or  Amsterdam      Or  UK

 Try         crystalsummer.ie               Or        www.crystalholidays.co.uk/hollidays/summer

  There are many more  travel co   to choose   outside of  USA  

  Trailfinders    is another one


----------



## Woodview

Here are a few more

www.cosmostoursandcruises.co.uk/cruises

          hollandinternational.nl

www.riverattravel.ie

www.duitsverkeersbureau.nl

transat.com


----------



## AdamEfimoff

Cheers everyone
we have decided not to go due to safety


----------



## Calfan

We just booked a winter trip to Yellowstone with Austin Adventures.  It will be our first trip with them, but I was very impressed with what I heard in a webinar they put on recently regarding their National Parks trips.  And our departure is guaranteed with just our four booked!  Their itinerary is very similar to ABD's Winter in Wyoming trip, but the Austin Adventures trip is a day longer, and the trip appears to be a little more active.


----------



## acndis

Calfan said:


> We just booked a winter trip to Yellowstone with Austin Adventures.  It will be our first trip with them, but I was very impressed with what I heard in a webinar they put on recently regarding their National Parks trips.  And our departure is guaranteed with just our four booked!  Their itinerary is very similar to ABD's Winter in Wyoming trip, but the Austin Adventures trip is a day longer, and the trip appears to be a little more active.


Calfan,

We are booked with them for Scotland Summer 2018!  Please let me know what you think. I am really interested in the South Dakota trip and their Galapogas Island hopping.  I am interested in your experience in the Grand Canyon.  And yes, they guarantee at 4 which is great!


----------



## Calfan

acndis said:


> Calfan,
> 
> We are booked with them for Scotland Summer 2018!  Please let me know what you think. I am really interested in the South Dakota trip and their Galapogas Island hopping.  I am interested in your experience in the Grand Canyon.  And yes, they guarantee at 4 which is great!



Will definitely let you know what we think.  We are going late Dec. to early Jan.  You are going to love Scotland.


----------



## BluesTraveler

Thanks for the mentions of Austin Adventures - I ordered their catalog and wow their trips look great.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

Hi Everyone, Just back from my South East Asia trip to Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia with Nat Geo. I'm still dealing with the jetlag and am starting to work on the blog. I hope to get the first posts up within the next week or so. This trip was AMAZING! It only just scratched the surface of Vietnam though but still gave a good introduction to the country. I will let you know when the blog starts going up. If you have any questions before it starts feel free to ask and I'll do my best to answer. Just be warned though, that I'm still on Laotian time. Our guide told us that in Laos, the P.D.R. which officially stands for People's Democratic Republic (even though they are Communist), stands for "People Don't Rush" and thanks to the jetlag, that's exactly how I'm feeling right now.


----------



## RebelHawk

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> Hi Everyone, Just back from my South East Asia trip to Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia with Nat Geo. I'm still dealing with the jetlag and am starting to work on the blog. I hope to get the first posts up within the next week or so. This trip was AMAZING! It only just scratched the surface of Vietnam though but still gave a good introduction to the country. I will let you know when the blog starts going up. If you have any questions before it starts feel free to ask and I'll do my best to answer. Just be warned though, that I'm still on Laotian time. Our guide told us that in Laos, the P.D.R. which officially stands for People's Democratic Republic (even though they are Communist), stands for "People Don't Rush" and thanks to the jetlag, that's exactly how I'm feeling right now.



I can't wait to read this report. My wife and I have gone back and forth on ABD vs Nat Geo trips and this one is high on our trip lists.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

RebelHawk said:


> I can't wait to read this report. My wife and I have gone back and forth on ABD vs Nat Geo trips and this one is high on our trip lists.



I can't speak to the ABD SE Asia trip but I can speak from having just been to the Angkor Archeological park that I cannot possibly figure out how ABD does a tuk-tuk (pronounced "took-took") scavenger hunt through the temples. The grounds themselves are 400 square kilometers and the main temples cannot be approached except on foot so no idea how Disney does this, especially since this is after they visit Angkor Wat and it's just a single morning. If you want to see any of the temples beyond Angkor Wat, then Nat Geo is the way to go. We even had a picnic lunch at a temple that is not open to the public. The only way you can see this temple is with a permit. 

My mom is of the opinion that everyone needs to visit Vietnam at least once in their lifetime. We loved it there. Now it's deciding what to do for our next trip in 2018. Back to Vietnam to continue exploring (it was our favourite of the 3), Ireland, Australia or Morocco.

One thing we learned on this trip though was that group travel was not really our thing. We will be doing private trips from now on. Our guides gave us an in-country operator that will create a custom tailor-made itinerary for us in Vietnam that will come with local guides and everything.


----------



## Rapunzellover

So, I called Thompson family adventures today to discuss the Azores trip.  I'll be damned if I didn't get a somewhat positive response.  Beth, the woman I talked to, said while it's not common, they would not prevent a solo traveler, provided I know and am okay with what I'm getting into.  I explained to her that I am fully aware.  Looks like I may be doing the Azores after all with them.  I do wish ABD would create such an itinerary though.  I'll be thinking of this for 2018/19.


----------



## Calfan

Rapunzellover said:


> So, I called Thompson family adventures today to discuss the Azores trip.  I'll be damned if I didn't get a somewhat positive response.  Beth, the woman I talked to, said while it's not common, they would not prevent a solo traveler, provided I know and am okay with what I'm getting into.  I explained to her that I am fully aware.  Looks like I may be doing the Azores after all with them.  I do wish ABD would create such an itinerary though.  I'll be thinking of this for 2018/19.



Very glad to hear that, Rapunzellover!


----------



## acndis

Calfan said:


> Will definitely let you know what we think.  We are going late Dec. to early Jan.  You are going to love Scotland.


Love the itinerary for the trip you are going on (Winter Yellowstone).  We went on the ABD version and loved it (our son was very young).  This one looks even better to me!  Can't wait to hear about your experience.  There are about 4 itineraries that I would book tomorrow on their site.  Hope the reality is as good as the pitch!


----------



## Calfan

acndis said:


> Love the itinerary for the trip you are going on (Winter Yellowstone).  We went on the ABD version and loved it (our son was very young).  This one looks even better to me!  Can't wait to hear about your experience.  There are about 4 itineraries that I would book tomorrow on their site.  Hope the reality is as good as the pitch!



I hope so too!  I'm super excited about the Winter Yellowstone trip.  I've been looking at the ABD version longingly for years now.  But I agree with you that the Austin Adventures itinerary actually looks a little better to me, which is why I decided not to wait until ABD release dates for their trip.  Plus the dates of the trip we booked with Austin are perfect in terms of starting a few days after Christmas (which will allow us to spend Christmas at home and still arrive in Bozeman a couple of days before the start of our trip, to give a cushion for winter travel issues) and still giving my kids a weekend to end their winter break before going back to school.


----------



## carpenta

You'll love Bozeman. Tiny airport but very nice. A little bit of a ride to the town proper. Nice local brewery / eats place with great burgers and food. I will get the name for you Calfan when I dig through my files.


----------



## Calfan

carpenta said:


> You'll love Bozeman. Tiny airport but very nice. A little bit of a ride to the town proper. Nice local brewery / eats place with great burgers and food. I will get the name for you Calfan when I dig through my files.



That would be great!  Thank you.


----------



## sayhello

Rapunzellover said:


> So, I called Thompson family adventures today to discuss the Azores trip.  I'll be damned if I didn't get a somewhat positive response.  Beth, the woman I talked to, said while it's not common, they would not prevent a solo traveler, provided I know and am okay with what I'm getting into.  I explained to her that I am fully aware.  Looks like I may be doing the Azores after all with them.  I do wish ABD would create such an itinerary though.  I'll be thinking of this for 2018/19.


Well, that's encouraging!!  I guess the person I'd been corresponding with needs to talk to Beth!

Sayhello


----------



## Rapunzellover

sayhello said:


> Well, that's encouraging!!  I guess the person I'd been corresponding with needs to talk to Beth!
> 
> Sayhello



Indeed!  I am pleased with my communication with them so far.  She also gave me the name of a sister company, adventurewomen. com, which does single women tours, and had no single supplement if you let them pair you up with a fellow single traveler.


----------



## carpenta

Calfan said:


> That would be great!  Thank you.



 It was called the Montana Brewing Company and located on the main drag across from the old railroad freight station. There is a free bus service that takes you from the outskirts to the downtown street and the hotel desk has the time schedule. We used it and it was those trolley type buses and for us it was easy-peasy. Our hotel was a new hotel a little outside a walking distance from the "downtown".


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> Hi Everyone, Just back from my South East Asia trip to Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia with Nat Geo. I'm still dealing with the jetlag and am starting to work on the blog. I hope to get the first posts up within the next week or so. This trip was AMAZING! It only just scratched the surface of Vietnam though but still gave a good introduction to the country. I will let you know when the blog starts going up. If you have any questions before it starts feel free to ask and I'll do my best to answer. Just be warned though, that I'm still on Laotian time. Our guide told us that in Laos, the P.D.R. which officially stands for People's Democratic Republic (even though they are Communist), stands for "People Don't Rush" and thanks to the jetlag, that's exactly how I'm feeling right now.


Wonderful! Really looking forward to reading about the trip. Southeast Asia is definitely on my list.


----------



## Calfan

carpenta said:


> It was called the Montana Brewing Company and located on the main drag across from the old railroad freight station. There is a free bus service that takes you from the outskirts to the downtown street and the hotel desk has the time schedule. We used it and it was those trolley type buses and for us it was easy-peasy. Our hotel was a new hotel a little outside a walking distance from the "downtown".



Thanks!


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Has anyone used Backroads?  This thread has gotten so long I honestly can't recall if they've been mentioned.

They have a trip to the Galapagos in April, 2018, that matches my teenage daughter's spring break that I am considering.  Since she doesn't want to take a summer vacation with me (apparently camp and working ahead in math are more important ), we will have to make do with whatever tour we can find that matches our schedule and interest.  Would LOVE to visit SE Asia but I don't think 9 days is enough (at least for me).

I have 2 friends who have used them and speak very highly of them (one does the camping-style family trips every summer and the other the Premiere Inns).

Would appreciate any feedback!


----------



## sayhello

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> Has anyone used Backroads?  This thread has gotten so long I honestly can't recall if they've been mentioned.
> 
> They have a trip to the Galapagos in April, 2018, that matches my teenage daughter's spring break that I am considering.  Since she doesn't want to take a summer vacation with me (apparently camp and working ahead in math are more important ), we will have to make do with whatever tour we can find that matches our schedule and interest.  Would LOVE to visit SE Asia but I don't think 9 days is enough (at least for me).
> 
> I have 2 friends who have used them and speak very highly of them (one does the camping-style family trips every summer and the other the Premiere Inns).
> 
> Would appreciate any feedback!


I have taken Backroads, but it was YEARS ago.  (1996) - In fact, it was my first "adventure" group trip.  I imagine they're still as great as they were back then.  They are pretty active trips - a lot of hiking/biking/etc, depending on the trip you take.  Their trips also tend to be fairly short (5 or 6 nights).  But they do wonderful itineraries, and their Guides are very personable and great.  We had 3 for my trip.  Most of them were locals (I did Nova Scotia).  Chris Brown, who is a fabulous Adventure Guide told me he Guided for Backroads, and felt that ABD based a lot of their business model after Backroads (at least back in 2008).  I'd say you'd be in good hands with Backroads if you find an itinerary you like! 

Sayhello


----------



## BluesTraveler

Has anyone here traveled with Austin Adventures before?


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> Hi Everyone, Just back from my South East Asia trip to Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia with Nat Geo. I'm still dealing with the jetlag and am starting to work on the blog. I hope to get the first posts up within the next week or so. This trip was AMAZING! It only just scratched the surface of Vietnam though but still gave a good introduction to the country. I will let you know when the blog starts going up. If you have any questions before it starts feel free to ask and I'll do my best to answer. Just be warned though, that I'm still on Laotian time. Our guide told us that in Laos, the P.D.R. which officially stands for People's Democratic Republic (even though they are Communist), stands for "People Don't Rush" and thanks to the jetlag, that's exactly how I'm feeling right now.



When are you starting up your review?  I am looking forward to reading.  SE Asia is very high on our list -- my daughter and I will likely go in December, 2018.

Can you share the name of the local tour company you were given?  Which Nat Geo tour did you take?  We would also like to visit Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam.  A lot of tour companies seem to skip Laos.


----------



## nordkin

carpenta said:


> It was called the Montana Brewing Company and located on the main drag across from the old railroad freight station. There is a free bus service that takes you from the outskirts to the downtown street and the hotel desk has the time schedule. We used it and it was those trolley type buses and for us it was easy-peasy. Our hotel was a new hotel a little outside a walking distance from the "downtown".


We also loved the Western Café.  They are on Main St and at times donate 10% of their proceeds to the Museum of the Rockies.  Wonderful museum that is a must see.


----------



## Calfan

nordkin said:


> We also loved the Western Café.  They are on Main St and at times donate 10% of their proceeds to the Museum of the Rockies.  Wonderful museum that is a must see.



Thanks!


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> When are you starting up your review?  I am looking forward to reading.  SE Asia is very high on our list -- my daughter and I will likely go in December, 2018.
> 
> Can you share the name of the local tour company you were given?  Which Nat Geo tour did you take?  We would also like to visit Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam.  A lot of tour companies seem to skip Laos.



Hi WDW Groupie, our guide recommended 3 companies for private tours. It depends on how comfortable you are going with an in-country operator. 2 of the ones she recommended are strictly in-country in that they don't have offices outside of Vietnam so you would only be dealing with someone who is located in Vietnam. The other one she recommended does have an office in the US. The one with an office in the US is Insider Journeys. The two located in country are Buffalo Tours and Handspan. We used Buffalo Tours to do some day trips on our pre-days and had a really good experience with them. They have some pre-set trips that you can choose from or you can contact them and they will create something for you or you can create something out of their day trips. Handspan also has some pre-set trips or your can completely customize a trip with them. We will probably use Handspan for our trip in 2019.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

Hi Everyone, sorry it's taken so long but life got in the way. First blog post for our trip to South East Asia aka Indochina is up. I'm working on the next one now. I will get them up as quickly as I can but I've just started a new job and I'm having computer issues at home so I will get them up as quickly as possible.


----------



## BluesTraveler

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> Hi Everyone, sorry it's taken so long but life got in the way. First blog post for our trip to South East Asia aka Indochina is up. I'm working on the next one now. I will get them up as quickly as I can but I've just started a new job and I'm having computer issues at home so I will get them up as quickly as possible.


I'm looking forward to reading your posts!  DH and I are eyeing a couple of Nat Geo hiking trips for next year.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

Hi Everyone, I've managed to get my next post up so the first pre-day is up on the blog. I probably won't get the next post up until next weekend.


----------



## Calfan

BluesTraveler said:


> I'm looking forward to reading your posts!  DH and I are eyeing a couple of Nat Geo hiking trips for next year.



Which ones are you considering?  I've done England Coast to Coast and Hiking the Emerald Isle and am doing Hiking Patagonia later this year (with CaliforniaGirl09 who was also my partner in crime for England Coast to Coast; I had to take my husband to Ireland, lol).


----------



## BluesTraveler

Calfan said:


> Which ones are you considering?  I've done England Coast to Coast and Hiking the Emerald Isle and am doing Hiking Patagonia later this year (with CaliforniaGirl09 who was also my partner in crime for England Coast to Coast; I had to take my husband to Ireland, lol).


We are looking at the Italy and France ones, and planning for either May or October 2018.  I'd never heard of these adventures until you and CaliforniaGirl09 mentioned them, but they look fabulous.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> Hi WDW Groupie, our guide recommended 3 companies for private tours. It depends on how comfortable you are going with an in-country operator. 2 of the ones she recommended are strictly in-country in that they don't have offices outside of Vietnam so you would only be dealing with someone who is located in Vietnam. The other one she recommended does have an office in the US. The one with an office in the US is Insider Journeys. The two located in country are Buffalo Tours and Handspan. We used Buffalo Tours to do some day trips on our pre-days and had a really good experience with them. They have some pre-set trips that you can choose from or you can contact them and they will create something for you or you can create something out of their day trips. Handspan also has some pre-set trips or your can completely customize a trip with them. We will probably use Handspan for our trip in 2019.



Thank you!
Your pictures and descriptions are amazing.  This makes me really, really want to visit there soon!


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

Hey everyone. The next 2 posts are up on my blog.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

My (almost) 15 year old dd and I are booked on the December 27th Abercrombie and Kent Antarctica trip.  It is now sold out so I am glad that I booked when I did.  There are plenty of kids on board (A&K charters the entire ship) so that will be good for my dd!

We watched a lot of A&K youtube videos about this trip before we made the final decision.  I am excited.  Now I just have to figure out the airfare.

I will do a report when we return about the journey.  Nothing fancy but I will post pictures and a general overview of A&K.


----------



## Calfan

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> My (almost) 15 year old dd and I are booked on the December 27th Abercrombie and Kent Antarctica trip.  It is now sold out so I am glad that I booked when I did.  There are plenty of kids on board (A&K charters the entire ship) so that will be good for my dd!
> 
> We watched a lot of A&K youtube videos about this trip before we made the final decision.  I am excited.  Now I just have to figure out the airfare.
> 
> I will do a report when we return about the journey.  Nothing fancy but I will post pictures and a general overview of A&K.



Definitely interested in your impressions of A&K.  I have a couple of their Africa trips flagged.


----------



## Cousin Orville

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> My (almost) 15 year old dd and I are booked on the December 27th Abercrombie and Kent Antarctica trip.  It is now sold out so I am glad that I booked when I did.  There are plenty of kids on board (A&K charters the entire ship) so that will be good for my dd!
> 
> We watched a lot of A&K youtube videos about this trip before we made the final decision.  I am excited.  Now I just have to figure out the airfare.
> 
> I will do a report when we return about the journey.  Nothing fancy but I will post pictures and a general overview of A&K.



I'd be interested to hear your impressions of A&K as well.  I have a few of their trips flagged that interest me.


----------



## SingingMom

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> Hey everyone. The next 2 posts are up on my blog.


Is there a link?


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

SingingMom said:


> Is there a link?



I sent you the link in a pm.


----------



## carpenta

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> I sent you the link in a pm.



 Could you send me a link also Cinderella's Slipper? Thanks.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

Hi Everyone, the next two blog posts are up. We have reached Ha Noi.


----------



## Lula3434

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> Hi Everyone, the next two blog posts are up. We have reached Ha Noi.


May I have the link to your blog, please?


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

Lula3434 said:


> May I have the link to your blog, please?



Hi Lula, I left the link in a message on your profile page.


----------



## Lula3434

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> Hi Lula, I left the link in a message on your profile page.


thank you!


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> Hi Lula, I left the link in a message on your profile page.



Your pictures are so vivid and full of life!  I can't wait to go on a SE Asia trip with my daughter.  It will likely be with ABD in December, 2018 for 2 reasons: so she can be with other teenagers and ABD is one of the only companies that has a family trip that visits Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam.

I am looking forward to your next installment!


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> Your pictures are so vivid and full of life!  I can't wait to go on a SE Asia trip with my daughter.  It will likely be with ABD in December, 2018 for 2 reasons: so she can be with other teenagers and ABD is one of the only companies that has a family trip that visits Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam.
> 
> I am looking forward to your next installment!



Just know that the itineraries are quite different between what ABD does and what I did. We went to Hue, not Hoi An, we go to Ha Long Bay (coming up on the blog) and we really toured the temples in Cambodia, we do NOT do a tuk-tuk scavenger hunt around the Angkor Wat Archeological Park (have yet to figure out how this is done).

Next installment should be up this weekend with Ha Noi and at least our arrival in Ha Long Bay.


----------



## Cousin Orville

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> Just know that the itineraries are quite different between what ABD does and what I did. We went to Hue, not Hoi An, we go to Ha Long Bay (coming up on the blog) and we really toured the temples in Cambodia, we do NOT do a tuk-tuk scavenger hunt around the Angkor Wat Archeological Park (have yet to figure out how this is done).
> 
> Next installment should be up this weekend with Ha Noi and at least our arrival in Ha Long Bay.



Ha Long Bay is the biggest omission of the ABD.  We really wanted to go before or afterwards, but just didn't have the time.  I've always wondered why ABD did not include this.  I'm guessing they just couldn't carve out anymore time.  However, the year before they introduced the ABD, there was tragedy in the area that may have influenced ABD.

Most of the scavenger hunt is actually racing on foot through the temples.  But you go between several of the temples via tuk tuk.  And those drivers took the scavenger hunt very seriously - like the tuk tuk racing seen out of James Bond's Octopussy.  Easily my favorite ABD activity, and great especially for kids.  The teen groups kicked out behinds.  Very similar to the Amazing Race.

ABD spent a lot of time seriously and slowly touring Angor Wat before the race.  And some people visited the other temples more casually on their own while everyone else raced.  Most of us raced.  The next day several of us went back to Ta Prohm and the other main temple with the faces? (it's been too many years now) with the guides.  I went back to Angor Wat in the late afternoon on my own with my Dad and son for better pictures.  The morning light was a bit harsh for photos when we toured.

Overall, I think SE Asia is a particularly well organized ABD.  But it's such a lovely part of the world.  I wouldn't mind going back with ABD or another group or possibly on my own.  I'll have to check out your report


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

Cousin Orville said:


> Ha Long Bay is the biggest omission of the ABD.  We really wanted to go before or afterwards, but just didn't have the time.  I've always wondered why ABD did not include this.  I'm guessing they just couldn't carve out anymore time.  However, the year before they introduced the ABD, there was tragedy in the area that may have influenced ABD.
> 
> Most of the scavenger hunt is actually racing on foot through the temples.  But you go between several of the temples via tuk tuk.  And those drivers took the scavenger hunt very seriously - like the tuk tuk racing seen out of James Bond's Octopussy.  Easily my favorite ABD activity, and great especially for kids.  The teen groups kicked out behinds.  Very similar to the Amazing Race.
> 
> ABD spent a lot of time seriously and slowly touring Angor Wat before the race.  And some people visited the other temples more casually on their own while everyone else raced.  Most of us raced.  The next day several of us went back to Ta Prohm and the other main temple with the faces? (it's been too many years now) with the guides.  I went back to Angor Wat in the late afternoon on my own with my Dad and son for better pictures.  The morning light was a bit harsh for photos when we toured.
> 
> Overall, I think SE Asia is a particularly well organized ABD.  But it's such a lovely part of the world.  I wouldn't mind going back with ABD or another group or possibly on my own.  I'll have to check out your report



I'm in the midst of posting. I'm getting ready to post Ha Noi and our arrival in Ha Long Bay this weekend. I can manage 1-2 posts going up on the weekends as I write them through the week. I also have my 2 previous ABDs up on the blog as well so you can see why we've switched away. Check my signature for details about it.

Ha Long Bay was the reason my mom wanted to take this particular trip over the ABD one.

One of the problems with Ha Long Bay is that the boats don't sleep more than 2 per room and there are only a very small number of boats that are allowed to anchor overnight out in the bay, and of those boats, the number is even smaller that could take a larger number of people. We had 16 and we used every room on one whole deck for our group and the staff and trip guides were on the lower level. Day cruises all go out to one particular rock in the bay and there are hundreds of boats that do that and it's a LONG drive just to that.

And the temple you're thinking of is Bayon, which is inside Angkor Thom. We visited Bayon, along with a number of other temples/sites in one day, not including Angkor Wat, which we did for sunrise and quite a few hours on our final day before checking out one other temple.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

Hey Everyone, the next two posts are up. Touring Ha Noi and arrival in Ha Long Bay. Next up will be kayaking in Ha Long Bay and travelling to Luang Prabang, Lao.


----------



## kaseyC

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> Hey Everyone, the next two posts are up. Touring Ha Noi and arrival in Ha Long Bay. Next up will be kayaking in Ha Long Bay and travelling to Luang Prabang, Lao.



Truly enjoying your SE Asia blog posts.  It made me laugh when you mentioned folks not prepared for eating the whole deep-fried soft shell crab.  Deep fried soft shell crabs are delicious and popular in Maryland where I grew up.  You can also find them as a special sometimes at our favorite Thai restaurant here in IL.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

kaseyC said:


> Truly enjoying your SE Asia blog posts.  It made me laugh when you mentioned folks not prepared for eating the whole deep-fried soft shell crab.  Deep fried soft shell crabs are delicious and popular in Maryland where I grew up.  You can also find them as a special sometimes at our favorite Thai restaurant here in IL.



I'm glad you're enjoying the blog. It's nice to get the feedback. The problem with a lot of the people in our group was they were constantly complaining about the food. There was too much, not enough or they just didn't want any more "foreign" food, they wanted American/Western food. They were complaining about having too much Vietnamese food by lunch on the first full day of the tour and that was only our second meal of the trip. My mom and I would have rather had more Vietnamese and less Western meals but not our group. I haven't gotten to this yet but quite a few members of our group were quite upset when Jessica (trip leader) told them not to order anything off the western menu when we stopped at the same rest stop on the way back from Ha Long Bay that we stopped at on the way there to get lunch at the restaurant. She told them outright, do NOT order anything but the Vietnamese menu and they were not happy, even when she told them why, they still were not happy. They couldn't grasp the concept that we were out in the middle of northern Vietnam and their concept of Western food, and their ability to cook it to a safe temperature to ensure it was safe for consumption, was not on the same level as the restaurants in Ha Noi or Sai Gon. Whereas if we ordered off the Vietnamese menu, everything would be prepared properly and would be safe to eat.


----------



## kaseyC

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> I'm glad you're enjoying the blog. It's nice to get the feedback. The problem with a lot of the people in our group was they were constantly complaining about the food. There was too much, not enough or they just didn't want any more "foreign" food, they wanted American/Western food. They were complaining about having too much Vietnamese food by lunch on the first full day of the tour and that was only our second meal of the trip. My mom and I would have rather had more Vietnamese and less Western meals but not our group. I haven't gotten to this yet but quite a few members of our group were quite upset when Jessica (trip leader) told them not to order anything off the western menu when we stopped at the same rest stop on the way back from Ha Long Bay that we stopped at on the way there to get lunch at the restaurant. She told them outright, do NOT order anything but the Vietnamese menu and they were not happy, even when she told them why, they still were not happy. They couldn't grasp the concept that we were out in the middle of northern Vietnam and their concept of Western food, and their ability to cook it to a safe temperature to ensure it was safe for consumption, was not on the same level as the restaurants in Ha Noi or Sai Gon. Whereas if we ordered off the Vietnamese menu, everything would be prepared properly and would be safe to eat.



That's a shame.  IMO, one of the best parts of international travel is the regional cuisine.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

kaseyC said:


> That's a shame.  IMO, one of the best parts of international travel is the regional cuisine.



Couldn't agree more kasey.

Hey everyone! Next 2 posts are up. Sorry for the delay but life got in the way. We are now finishing up in Vietnam and arriving in Lao. 

And here's another reason we love Nat Geo. We were looking at their private expeditions trying to decide where we wanted to go next for our 2018 trip and we noticed one of their trips that had caught our attention had an early booking discount on it. We could save $750 per person if we booked a trip prior to March 31, 2017. Nowhere did it say that you had to travel in 2017 in order to take advantage of the discount so we called Nat Geo to see if we could apply the early booking discount to a trip in 2018 and they said...YES! We jumped on it since we only had a few days to book the trip in order to take advantage of the discount so we have booked our 2018 trip with a $750 per person discount. We were never able to take advantage of any discounts with ABD, not even the returning guest discounts because we're Canadian and yet Nat Geo let us use a 2017 early booking discount on a 2018 trip. We know who we'll be travelling with from now on.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> Couldn't agree more kasey.
> 
> Hey everyone! Next 2 posts are up. Sorry for the delay but life got in the way. We are now finishing up in Vietnam and arriving in Lao.
> 
> And here's another reason we love Nat Geo. We were looking at their private expeditions trying to decide where we wanted to go next for our 2018 trip and we noticed one of their trips that had caught our attention had an early booking discount on it. We could save $750 per person if we booked a trip prior to March 31, 2017. Nowhere did it say that you had to travel in 2017 in order to take advantage of the discount so we called Nat Geo to see if we could apply the early booking discount to a trip in 2018 and they said...YES! We jumped on it since we only had a few days to book the trip in order to take advantage of the discount so we have booked our 2018 trip with a $750 per person discount. We were never able to take advantage of any discounts with ABD, not even the returning guest discounts because we're Canadian and yet Nat Geo let us use a 2017 early booking discount on a 2018 trip. We know who we'll be travelling with from now on.


That's a great deal. Calfan did something similar recently with Thompson family adventures, but I want to say it was for 2019! NatGeo also has a great return guest discount after three trips. I'm not sure whether it applies to Canada, but check that out, too.


----------



## Calfan

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> That's a great deal. Calfan did something similar recently with Thompson family adventures, but I want to say it was for 2019! NatGeo also has a great return guest discount after three trips. I'm not sure whether it applies to Canada, but check that out, too.



My deposit is actually for 2020, lol!  It's for Thomson's Japan trip for DDs 18th bday, and they guaranteed me 2017 pricing. I can also cancel for any reason up to 120 days out and get a complete refund. I think we also got a $500 return traveler discount (one for the whole booking, not per person).  

But I love NatGeo too. CaliforniaGirl and I are doing their Patagonia hiking trip in Nov., which will be my third NatGeo trip. My family also has a NatGeo deposit we are planning to use in 2018. They told my TA that even if I book the 2018 trip before I complete my Patagonia trip, once I complete Patagonia, they will apply the $250 per person loyal traveler discount to my 2018 trip and also apply it to each of my other 3 family members


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> That's a great deal. Calfan did something similar recently with Thompson family adventures, but I want to say it was for 2019! NatGeo also has a great return guest discount after three trips. I'm not sure whether it applies to Canada, but check that out, too.



Yes, the Nat Geo returning traveller program applies to everyone, not just Americans. I asked them about it before we did our trip to South East Asia because I was so annoyed that ABD wouldn't let us take advantage of the returning guest discounts even though we had already done a trip with them simply because we were Canadian.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> Yes, the Nat Geo returning traveller program applies to everyone, not just Americans. I asked them about it before we did our trip to South East Asia because I was so annoyed that ABD wouldn't let us take advantage of the returning guest discounts even though we had already done a trip with them simply because we were Canadian.



I looked at the Nat Geo Morocco private expedition and it looks amazing.  If only it wasn't 50 degrees Celsius in July when I would take my son.  Sigh.


----------



## carpenta

We also like NatGeo discount program. We leave for Iceland in less than 3 months with them and the experience could not have gone smoother. We talk directly with the tour guide herself about everything from payment to scheduling. When we finally meet it may seem like "old friends".


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I looked at the Nat Geo Morocco private expedition and it looks amazing.  If only it wasn't 50 degrees Celsius in July when I would take my son.  Sigh.



We were going to book this trip for next year actually but with the current travel restrictions on what you can/cannot bring onboard on flights from Arab countries, not that Canadian airlines have the same restrictions as US airlines right now but a lot can change in 13 months, we opted to look at other trips. Morocco is still high on our list though.


----------



## Woodview

I see that  the   National  Geographic  Ship   Explorer    is calling into my home area  ( " Whitegate  " Co. Cork Ireland

      Or  Cobh   Co .Cork  )  on May 7th 2017       .


----------



## AquamarineSteph

I haven't done the National Geographic trips, per se, but we did do a G Adventures trip that was co-branded through National Geographic.  It was an incredible trip!


----------



## Aulika

AquamarineSteph said:


> I haven't done the National Geographic trips, per se, but we did do a G Adventures trip that was co-branded through National Geographic.  It was an incredible trip!



Can you share what trip you did ? I am considering using them and i cannot find feedbacks.
Than k you for your help !


----------



## AquamarineSteph

Aulika said:


> Can you share what trip you did ? I am considering using them and i cannot find feedbacks.
> Than k you for your help !



Yes.  We did the G Adventures/National Geographic trip to Costa Rica called Natural Highlights of Costa Rica.  It is NOT the same as traveling with ABD.  You will see a far different service level in many areas, but it was a fantastic tour that completely worked for what we wanted/needed.  I would recommend them in a heartbeat, but having said that, let me point out that the tour after ours probably didn't have half as much fun.  Somebody in that group decided to ignore the advice NOT to touch some of the local wildlife and wound up with some nasty cuts to the arm as a result...

If you want more info, please feel free to PM me!


----------



## Cendure's French Silk

Cousin Orville said:


> Most of the scavenger hunt is actually racing on foot through the temples. But you go between several of the temples via tuk tuk. And those drivers took the scavenger hunt very seriously - like the tuk tuk racing seen out of James Bond's Octopussy. Easily my favorite ABD activity, and great especially for kids. The teen groups kicked out behinds. Very similar to the Amazing Race.



This alone would make me reconsider traveling with ABD.  Any tour company that considers it okay to race around another country's cultural sites as a game is not one I would want to be associated with.  I would consider it disrespectful to the country and the culture.  Too bad, as this was a trip I had once considered taking.  Good thing I'm finding lots of other options on this thread.


----------



## Cousin Orville

Cendure's French Silk said:


> This alone would make me reconsider traveling with ABD.  Any tour company that considers it okay to race around another country's cultural sites as a game is not one I would want to be associated with.  I would consider it disrespectful to the country and the culture.  Too bad, as this was a trip I had once considered taking.  Good thing I'm finding lots of other options on this thread.



I would disagree 100% that there was anything disrespectful associated with the race.  There is an official guide assigned to our group from the Angkor Archaeological Park who guides us and oversees everything.  Most of the racing occurs outside between the temples.  The scavenger hunt inside the temples is largely to find other official Archaeological Park guides to ask them specific questions on the history and cultural relevance of temples.

I've found ABD highly respectful to all people, cultures, and places.  That's quite possibly the last criticism I'd ever expect to hear regarding ABD.  I'm sure the same can be said for A&K, Nat Geo, Tauck, etc.  If my discreptions have given the impression otherwise, that probably has more to do with me not adequately painting the right picture rather than any cultural disrespect of ABD.

I certainly don't want to convince you ABD is THE way to see SE Asia.  It was wonderful and worked for us, but as you said there are many good options.  However, I wouldn't rule it out because of the scavenger hunt/race.  I think if you were to see it in person, you'd have a different impression of it.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

Cousin Orville said:


> I've found ABD highly respectful to all people, cultures, and places.



So ABD guides who dress up in cultural clothes that have nothing to do with their own culture (cultural appropriation) in a restaurant that is 800 years old and allow their guests to insult other members of their tour who happen to be from another country is being respectful of all people, cultures and places?


----------



## Cousin Orville

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> So ABD guides who dress up in cultural clothes that have nothing to do with their own culture (cultural appropriation) in a restaurant that is 800 years old and allow their guests to insult other members of their tour who happen to be from another country is being respectful of all people, cultures and places?



No.  I only said what I've found.  That is outside of my experience.  I'm not sure why this is becoming argumentative.  

I read your travel blog, and I thought it was great and interesting.  It made me want to go back and see some things I missed.  Looking at your wish list signature, it matches heavily with mine.  Morocco is a tough one that I'm trying to figure out the logistics for.  We probably have more interests in common than not.  I understand you've had a bad experience with ABD and that has pushed you to look towards different companies.  Completely understandable.  I think we're living in an awesome time to be able to do that.  Travel has become so accessible, and there's lots of options.  For me, traveling with my young children in particular, ABD has provided a wonderful, valuable service being able to travel with other young families.  If that stops or if something (like Morocco) comes up on my radar that ABD doesn't offer, I'll look elsewhere.  As an aside, the frustrating thing about Morocco (other than laptops and high temperatures) is I haven't been able to find a tour that caters to young families.  With the exception of S. America, most of the common offerings of other companies (A&K, Nat Geo) are places we've already visited.


----------



## CrazyZeus1

Cousin Orville said:


> I would disagree 100% that there was anything disrespectful associated with the race.  There is an official guide assigned to our group from the Angkor Archaeological Park who guides us and oversees everything.  Most of the racing occurs outside between the temples.  The scavenger hunt inside the temples is largely to find other official Archaeological Park guides to ask them specific questions on the history and cultural relevance of temples.
> 
> I've found ABD highly respectful to all people, cultures, and places.  That's quite possibly the last criticism I'd ever expect to hear regarding ABD.  I'm sure the same can be said for A&K, Nat Geo, Tauck, etc.  If my discreptions have given the impression otherwise, that probably has more to do with me not adequately painting the right picture rather than any cultural disrespect of ABD.
> 
> I certainly don't want to convince you ABD is THE way to see SE Asia.  It was wonderful and worked for us, but as you said there are many good options.  However, I wouldn't rule it out because of the scavenger hunt/race.  I think if you were to see it in person, you'd have a different impression of it.


I completely agree!  It's not a "race" at all...they call it that but you're learning so much along the way and nobody is running.  It's more of a scavenger hunt with clues to get from Point A to Point B.


----------



## CrazyZeus1

Cousin Orville said:


> No.  I only said what I've found.  That is outside of my experience.  I'm not sure why this is becoming argumentative.
> 
> I read your travel blog, and I thought it was great and interesting.  It made me want to go back and see some things I missed.  Looking at your wish list signature, it matches heavily with mine.  Morocco is a tough one that I'm trying to figure out the logistics for.  We probably have more interests in common than not.  I understand you've had a bad experience with ABD and that has pushed you to look towards different companies.  Completely understandable.  I think we're living in an awesome time to be able to do that.  Travel has become so accessible, and there's lots of options.  For me, traveling with my young children in particular, ABD has provided a wonderful, valuable service being able to travel with other young families.  If that stops or if something (like Morocco) comes up on my radar that ABD doesn't offer, I'll look elsewhere.  As an aside, the frustrating thing about Morocco (other than laptops and high temperatures) is I haven't been able to find a tour that caters to young families.  With the exception of S. America, most of the common offerings of other companies (A&K, Nat Geo) are places we've already visited.


You are a kind, patient person


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

Cousin Orville said:


> No.  I only said what I've found.  That is outside of my experience.  I'm not sure why this is becoming argumentative.



I am not trying to be argumentative. I am simply pointing out a flaw in what you posted. You can't make a blanket statement like you did, claiming ABD is respectful of ALL people, cultures and places when it's been pointed out that they are not.


----------



## sayhello

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> I am not trying to be argumentative. I am simply pointing out a flaw in what you posted. You can't make a blanket statement like you did, claiming ABD is respectful of ALL people, cultures and places when it's been pointed out that they are not.


I beg to differ.  Do you have examples of this from your own travels or specifics from people you know who have seen this, and not just assumptions you have made based on the descriptions of trips you haven't taken?  I have taken 8 ABDs, and have NEVER seen the Adventure Guides be anything but respectful of the cultures they are guiding us through.

Sayhello


----------



## CrazyZeus1

sayhello said:


> I beg to differ.  Do you have examples of this from your own travels or specifics from people you know who have seen this, and not just assumptions you have made based on the descriptions of trips you haven't taken?  I have taken 8 ABDs, and have NEVER seen the Adventure Guides be anything but respectful of the cultures they are guiding us through.
> 
> Sayhello


Ditto.  I have experienced them working hard to make sure that we, as guests, understand any cultural things to be aware of.  I think this was most obvious is Vietnam, and our guide Tony was wonderful about explaining Vietnamese culture and customs.  There was one heated debate one evening in Hoi An when we arrived to buy our floating lanterns for the river.  Apparently, there were already two OTHER ladies in boats there to sell lanterns, and it turned into a heated debate between the two ladies on who would sell us lanterns (while our pre-arranged lantern vendor waited patiently in her boat).  Tony used his cultural knowledge to diffuse the situation, and he bought equal amounts from the two arguing ladies, along with buying the lanterns he was supposed to buy from the prearranged vendor.  Instead of blowing off the two ladies whose boats were sitting where we were supposed to be, he worked hard to please everyone and be kind.  It was quite the experience to hear the two women going back and forth in a language that is so new to my ears, and I was proud to be with Tony who wanted everyone to walk away pleased.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Cousin Orville said:


> If that stops or if something (like Morocco) comes up on my radar that ABD doesn't offer, I'll look elsewhere.  As an aside, the frustrating thing about Morocco (other than laptops and high temperatures) is I haven't been able to find a tour that caters to young families.  With the exception of S. America, most of the common offerings of other companies (A&K, Nat Geo) are places we've already visited.



Butterfield and Robinson offers a family trip to Morocco!


----------



## CrazyZeus1

Anyone done a family trip to Antarctica?!  On our list.  Terrified of Drake Passage! haahah


----------



## CrazyZeus1

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> Butterfield and Robinson offers a family trip to Morocco!


WAIT!  I just saw your tagline!  You're doing Antarcitca!  With kids by chance?  Tell me about this!!


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

sayhello said:


> I beg to differ.  Do you have examples of this from your own travels or specifics from people you know who have seen this, and not just assumptions you have made based on the descriptions of trips you haven't taken?  I have taken 8 ABDs, and have NEVER seen the Adventure Guides be anything but respectful of the cultures they are guiding us through.
> 
> Sayhello



So ABD guide dressing in German outfit (cultural appropriation when official ABD guide is NOT German) and having what amounts to a frat house party in a restaurant that is 800 years old is what you consider being respectful? And yes I witnessed this on my own ABD trip. Also, allowing guests on the trip to insult others on your tour who come from a different country and laughing right along with them is respectful? Again, happened on MY ABD. I guess my interpretation of what is considered respectful behavior is different from the rest of you. Must be a Canadian thing.


----------



## CrazyZeus1

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> So ABD guide dressing in German outfit (cultural appropriation when official ABD guide is NOT German) and having what amounts to a frat house party in a restaurant that is 800 years old is what you consider being respectful? And yes I witnessed this on my own ABD trip. Also, allowing guests on the trip to insult others on your tour who come from a different country and laughing right along with them is respectful? Again, happened on MY ABD. I guess my interpretation of what is considered respectful behavior is different from the rest of you. Must be a Canadian thing.


If you're talking about them wearing Lederhosen, you will find quite a lot of Bavarian folks don't mind you wearing them at all.  It's definitely NOT an across-the-board offensive thing to do.  And what do you mean a frat house party?  I read your review and it sounds like the group was having fun.  With the exception of a few.


----------



## sayhello

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> So ABD guide dressing in German outfit (cultural appropriation when official ABD guide is NOT German) and having what amounts to a frat house party in a restaurant that is 800 years old is what you consider being respectful? And yes I witnessed this on my own ABD trip. Also, allowing guests on the trip to insult others on your tour who come from a different country and laughing right along with them is respectful? Again, happened on MY ABD. I guess my interpretation of what is considered respectful behavior is different from the rest of you. Must be a Canadian thing.


Sounds like you are perpetuating the "different country" thing yourself. 

Sayhello


----------



## calypso726

Cousin Orville said:


> I would disagree 100% that there was anything disrespectful associated with the race.  There is an official guide assigned to our group from the Angkor Archaeological Park who guides us and oversees everything.  Most of the racing occurs outside between the temples.  The scavenger hunt inside the temples is largely to find other official Archaeological Park guides to ask them specific questions on the history and cultural relevance of temples.
> 
> *I've found ABD highly respectful to all people, cultures, and places.  That's quite possibly the last criticism I'd ever expect to hear regarding ABD.*  I'm sure the same can be said for A&K, Nat Geo, Tauck, etc.  If my discreptions have given the impression otherwise, that probably has more to do with me not adequately painting the right picture rather than any cultural disrespect of ABD.
> 
> I certainly don't want to convince you ABD is THE way to see SE Asia.  It was wonderful and worked for us, but as you said there are many good options.  However, I wouldn't rule it out because of the scavenger hunt/race.  I think if you were to see it in person, you'd have a different impression of it.





Cousin Orville said:


> No. * I only said what I've found*.  That is outside of my experience.  I'm not sure why this is becoming argumentative.
> 
> I read your travel blog, and I thought it was great and interesting.  It made me want to go back and see some things I missed.  Looking at your wish list signature, it matches heavily with mine.  Morocco is a tough one that I'm trying to figure out the logistics for.  We probably have more interests in common than not.  I understand you've had a bad experience with ABD and that has pushed you to look towards different companies.  Completely understandable.  I think we're living in an awesome time to be able to do that.  Travel has become so accessible, and there's lots of options.  For me, traveling with my young children in particular, ABD has provided a wonderful, valuable service being able to travel with other young families.  If that stops or if something (like Morocco) comes up on my radar that ABD doesn't offer, I'll look elsewhere.  As an aside, the frustrating thing about Morocco (other than laptops and high temperatures) is I haven't been able to find a tour that caters to young families.  With the exception of S. America, most of the common offerings of other companies (A&K, Nat Geo) are places we've already visited.





Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> I am not trying to be argumentative. I am simply pointing out a flaw in what you posted. You can't make a blanket statement like you did, claiming ABD is respectful of ALL people, cultures and places when it's been pointed out that they are not.



I don't think the phrase "_blanket statement"_ means what you think it means. Couldn't resist a nod to Princess Bride    Cousin Orville has made no blanket statements. Cousin Orville has made it abundantly clear that the opinions he is sharing are based on his own experiences. What I, and I am sure most others take from that is that Cousin Orville has not had an experience where ABD came off as being disrespectful with regards to other cultures and and places. With regards to my own 9 ABD trips, I have never seen ABD come off as disrespectful towards other cultures and places. If anything, I have found them to err on the side of caution when it comes to maintaining respect for a place.

As most of us who frequent here know, you had one bad experience with ABD that was not resolved in a satisfactory manner. Perspective and choice are interesting things. One poor experience would not necessarily become the paintbrush that colors a company and what they have to offer as a decidedly poor option for me. That one poor experience would also not alter my views and the picture I painted of any previous experiences with that company. But we all have different levels of tolerance and expectations. I expect all of my experiences to be different. Come to think of it, my first ABD started off as a bad experience when they changed the itinerary and I had a hissy fit. That hissy fit led me on a path of sharing my frustration here with all of you, meeting some amazing people before my trip, during the trip and after the trip and of course sharing all of the joys and adventures I've had with ABD here with you guys. I expect the bad experiences to lead to something good too. They usually do.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

Actually, it wasn't just one bad experience we had with ABD. It was bad experiences on both of our trips so quite frankly we haven't had a GOOD experience with ABD from the start. We were willing to give them a second chance despite the poor experience on the first trip and they blew it quite spectacularly on their second chance.


----------



## CrazyZeus1

Both trips were bad?  You had Michael on your first and Jennae on your second.  Two of ABDs most excellent guides out there.  I'll just keep my mouth closed now because I'm not sure what to say if they both were a let down.  Glad you've found another touring outfit!


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

CrazyZeus1 said:


> Both trips were bad?  You had Michael on your first and Jennae on your second.  Two of ABDs most excellent guides out there.  I'll just keep my mouth closed now because I'm not sure what to say if they both were a let down.  Glad you've found another touring outfit!



Both trips were bad. Michael is superior to Jennae on many levels but neither could hold a candle to our Nat Geo guides.

As for our trips...

We were given incorrect meeting information for our farewell dinner (we went off and spent the afternoon on our own at DCA) and then were blamed by the 2 ABD reps who were with the tour for being in the wrong place, even through it was Michael and Jason who gave us the incorrect information. Strike 1.

As for Jennae, do not even get me started on her. If she's supposed to be one of their top guides, then I feel sorry for ABD. Quite frankly we thought she was horrible. She tried to force me through a fountain when I was in tears over the amount of pain I was feeling due to a seized hip joint from the slow pace of the Hellbrunn tour. She caused 2 major panic attacks over dietary concerns. She sat on her butt during dinner while my mother and other still had yet to be served their meal while the wait staff served 3rd and 4th round drinks to every one else and it wasn't until I snapped at a passing waiter to serve the rest of the party their dinners that she finally decided to get up and ensure everyone had their meals. If that is how a top ABD guide works, I would hate to see a bad one.


----------



## calypso726

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> Actually, it wasn't just one bad experience we had with ABD. It was bad experiences on both of our trips so quite frankly we haven't had a GOOD experience with ABD from the start. We were willing to give them a second chance despite the poor experience on the first trip and they blew it quite spectacularly on their second chance.



I was not aware of the other one. I knew about the most recent one. I'm sorry to hear that. I've had such amazing experiences with ABD and I always wish the same sense of fun and adventure, for lack of a better word, that I have had with them. I am glad that you have found another tour operator that makes you happy and meets your expectations. One of my biggest issue of reluctance to even try another tour operator is that they would fall short of the very high expectations I have thanks to ABD. None the less, there are places I'd like to see that aren't on ABD's itinerary list, JAPAN, ANTARCTICA, NEW ZEALAND, ASIA trifecta that hits Hong Kong DL, Tokyo Disney Sea and Shanghai DL ( in case anyone at ABD is reading this  ) so I find this particular thread quite valuable since most of the people have experienced ABD and can offer a realistic comparison.


----------



## CrazyZeus1




----------



## calypso726

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> As for Jennae, do not even get me started on her. If she's supposed to be one of their top guides, then I feel sorry for ABD.



I had the opportunity to meet Jennae on the Danube and I found her to be engaging, passionate and wonderful. I did not have the opportunity to tour with her but she does have a stellar reputation on this board. Every guide I have had has been outstanding! Zoe and Hanni I will always love, adore and want to adopt. Caroline and Adam were amazing, wonderful and made sure my mom had an amazing time on her first trip to Europe despite the fact that my dad had just passed away the month before. Not an easy feat. Dusty and James were phenomenal as was Stephanie. They made all me want to take any ABD as long they might be our guides. Ken and Mark Chris on our Winter in Wyoming trip were so phenomenal I want to go on the summer one with them and that was never on my radar. Their passion was infectious and we loved them too. I have yet to have an ABD guide that was not out of this world friendly, engaging and passionate. It's just so hard to even imagine what you describe since my own experiences have been the polar opposite.


----------



## CrazyZeus1

calypso726 said:


> I had the opportunity to meet Jennae on the Danube and I found her to be engaging, passionate and wonderful. I did not have the opportunity to tour with her but she does have a stellar reputation on this board. Every guide I have had has been outstanding! Zoe and Hanni I will always love, adore and want to adopt. Caroline and Adam were amazing, wonderful and made sure my mom had an amazing time on her first trip to Europe despite the fact that my dad had just passed away the month before. Not an easy feat. Dusty and James were phenomenal as was Stephanie. They made all me want to take any ABD as long they might be our guides. Ken and Mark Chris on our Winter in Wyoming trip were so phenomenal I want to go on the summer one with them and that was never on my radar. Their passion was infectious and we loved them too. I have yet to have an ABD guide that was not out of this world friendly, engaging and passionate. It's just so hard to even imagine what you describe since my own experiences have been the polar opposite.


We had Jennae on our Danube cruise too!  She was precious....and I'm a sucker for corny jokes!  Landon, Alexa, Michael, Natalia, Korey, Alica, Robby, Ron, SummerRose, Marcello, Mickie, Dean, Jennae, Chris, Tony....they have all made amazing trips for us!  Even when we had a major hotel issue, or when EVERY food in Vietnam had cilantro in it (which Hubby can't eat!), or when we got a stomach bug, the guides were looking out for us and fixing any issue we had.  I always let them know how much we appreciate what they do because without them, our trip would be so much more work for Hubby & I!  We love going back to Disneyland to hug on some of our faves...we just got to see Michael and Dean last month with a quick hug!


----------



## acndis

I love all the positive energy on this board today!  

I love having a board for other options.  As I mentioned, we are trying Austin Adventures next summer and love getting the chance to talk about it here.  

I think this board becomes less helpful when there is so much bashing of ABD or any other company.  Of course, it is helpful to hear all experiences with a company/trip but things are starting to get a bit repetitive and honestly, are just kind of getting to be a bummer.

I hope we can go back to the discussion of other options besides ABD and keep this board going in a positive direction.  

I'll start by saying that we just switched our Austin Adventures trip from Scotland to Belize (we loved Peru so much we just wanted to go someplace other than Europe).  They were great with the change!  No extra charges, etc.  The Belize trip looks AWESOME!  We are not going until Summer 2018 but we can't wait!

We have Alaska and Australia ABDs to tide us over in the meantime!


----------



## CrazyZeus1

I would love love love to hear any feedback on Antarctica options!  There are a lot...who has gone across Drake Passage?  Fly across?  Sail across?  Am I going to DIE?  hahaha


----------



## Calfan

acndis said:


> I love all the positive energy on this board today!
> 
> I love having a board for other options.  As I mentioned, we are trying Austin Adventures next summer and love getting the chance to talk about it here.
> 
> I think this board becomes less helpful when there is so much bashing of ABD or any other company.  Of course, it is helpful to hear all experiences with a company/trip but things are starting to get a bit repetitive and honestly, are just kind of getting to be a bummer.
> 
> I hope we can go back to the discussion of other options besides ABD and keep this board going in a positive direction.
> 
> I'll start by saying that we just switched our Austin Adventures trip from Scotland to Belize (we loved Peru so much we just wanted to go someplace other than Europe).  They were great with the change!  No extra charges, etc.  The Belize trip looks AWESOME!  We are not going until Summer 2018 but we can't wait!
> 
> We have Alaska and Australia ABDs to tide us over in the meantime!



We are doing the Austin Adventures Yellowstone Winter Family trip this Dec./Jan. and will definitely report back with our feedback regarding Austin Adventures as a tour provider.  This will be our first trip with them.


----------



## AquamarineSteph

Well, I don't mind talking about my tour experiences with other groups (Tauck, CIE & G Adventures/National Geographic) on here.  I am just always mindful that this board is for discussing ABD experiences, and I don't want to come across as bad mouthing ABD.  Just because I have taken trips with other companies, it is in no way a criticism of ABD.  And quite honestly, some tour companies probably work better for one person than another.  We all have our expectations when we travel.   And on a more practical note, sometimes you have to go with the tour provider who has the sites/experiences you want in a particular destination.  

I love being able to compare experiences, though!  Sometimes it helps reinforce that one company may be better than another, depending on what you want in a travel experience.


----------



## Bobo912

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> Butterfield and Robinson offers a family trip to Morocco!



In previous years Thomson Family Adventures also had a Morocco trip, but they didn't offer it this year except as a private tour on request.  Maybe it will come back in the future.  If anybody is interested in the future, it would probably be a good idea to drop them an email so they know there is interest.


----------



## tink1970

calypso726 said:


> I don't think the phrase "_blanket statement"_ means what you think it means. Couldn't resist a nod to Princess Bride



Love this quote...when DH and I are hung up on communication one of us will say this and it opens it up again 



calypso726 said:


> I expect the bad experiences to lead to something good too. They usually do.



Love this even more...learning from negative/bad/disappointing situations is really helpful in life...or so I've found.



acndis said:


> I love all the positive energy on this board today!
> 
> I love having a board for other options. As I mentioned, we are trying Austin Adventures next summer and love getting the chance to talk about it here.
> 
> I think this board becomes less helpful when there is so much bashing of ABD or any other company. Of course, it is helpful to hear all experiences with a company/trip but things are starting to get a bit repetitive and honestly, are just kind of getting to be a bummer.
> 
> I hope we can go back to the discussion of other options besides ABD and keep this board going in a positive direction.
> 
> I'll start by saying that we just switched our Austin Adventures trip from Scotland to Belize (we loved Peru so much we just wanted to go someplace other than Europe). They were great with the change! No extra charges, etc. The Belize trip looks AWESOME! We are not going until Summer 2018 but we can't wait!
> 
> We have Alaska and Australia ABDs to tide us over in the meantime!



Yes-reading about other options is so very helpful especially if ABD doesn't work for time/$/other considerations.

Please report back on AA when you return from Belize 



AquamarineSteph said:


> And quite honestly, some tour companies probably work better for one person than another. We all have our expectations when we travel. And on a more practical note, sometimes you have to go with the tour provider who has the sites/experiences you want in a particular destination.
> 
> I love being able to compare experiences, though! Sometimes it helps reinforce that one company may be better than another, depending on what you want in a travel experience.



Exactly! Travel and touring isn't a one size fits no one proposition. I'll always get fired up reading on these boards about some of the other tour operators, research them and think "que horror!!! No way am I (fill in the blank) doing _*that*_ on vacation."  Having said that, I really enjoy reading about people who have and had a wonderful experience. There are so many options it's great to have a resource where they can be shared.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

CrazyZeus1 said:


> I would love love love to hear any feedback on Antarctica options!  There are a lot...who has gone across Drake Passage?  Fly across?  Sail across?  Am I going to DIE?  hahaha



I will post a review of the trip when we get back.  I can tell you that there are plenty of teenagers to keep my (soon-to-be) 15 year old daughter entertained.  And so far the service has been exceptional.

Abercrombie and Kent held my stateroom for much longer than the 2 weeks they were supposed to while I made up my mind.  I thought that was really nice because I had the last room on the ship help with no money down.

I was reading about the Drake Passage last night (I also watched a storm video with 25 foot waves from the deck of an expedition ship).  I read that only 20% of the passengers get physically ill when it's the "Drake Shake", though most still feel ill.  I also read sometimes the gales are so bad they can fling you out of bed.  I'm hoping we don't experience that.  Although it could be good ab exercise to try to stay upright in bed when the ship is rocking in winds from 8 - 12 (with 12 being the absolute worst)!  Seriously though I read that glasses of water and food can and will slide right off the table onto the floor -- for those who are in the dining room during a storm (which is usually about half the ship), while the rest of the passengers are in their staterooms with saltines.  So at least we know what to expect.

Flying to Antarctica is also very challenging.  I prefer the ship!

We are so excited for this trip.  It will be our last continent, which makes it very special for us.

Here are the ages of the tween/teenagers on our voyage:
Females: 11, 10, 11, 12, 14, 11, 16, 14, 13, 12, 17, 15
Males: 14, 8, 13, 9, 12, 13, 16, 12, 10, 14, 11


----------



## CrazyZeus1

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I will post a review of the trip when we get back.  I can tell you that there are plenty of teenagers to keep my (soon-to-be) 15 year old daughter entertained.  And so far the service has been exceptional.
> 
> Abercrombie and Kent held my stateroom for much longer than the 2 weeks they were supposed to while I made up my mind.  I thought that was really nice because I had the last room on the ship help with no money down.
> 
> I was reading about the Drake Passage last night (I also watched a storm video with 25 foot waves from the deck of an expedition ship).  I read that only 20% of the passengers get physically ill when it's the "Drake Shake", though most still feel ill.  I also read sometimes the gales are so bad they can fling you out of bed.  I'm hoping we don't experience that.  Although it could be good ab exercise to try to stay upright in bed when the ship is rocking in winds from 8 - 12 (with 12 being the absolute worst)!  Seriously though I read that glasses of water and food can and will slide right off the table onto the floor -- for those who are in the dining room during a storm (which is usually about half the ship), while the rest of the passengers are in their staterooms with saltines.  So at least we know what to expect.
> 
> Flying to Antarctica is also very challenging.  I prefer the ship!
> 
> We are so excited for this trip.  It will be our last continent, which makes it very special for us.


That's exactly why we want to go!!  To be the last continent!  Love love love!!


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I will post a review of the trip when we get back.  I can tell you that there are plenty of teenagers to keep my (soon-to-be) 15 year old daughter entertained.  And so far the service has been exceptional.
> 
> Abercrombie and Kent held my stateroom for much longer than the 2 weeks they were supposed to while I made up my mind.  I thought that was really nice because I had the last room on the ship help with no money down.
> 
> I was reading about the Drake Passage last night (I also watched a storm video with 25 foot waves from the deck of an expedition ship).  I read that only 20% of the passengers get physically ill when it's the "Drake Shake", though most still feel ill.  I also read sometimes the gales are so bad they can fling you out of bed.  I'm hoping we don't experience that.  Although it could be good ab exercise to try to stay upright in bed when the ship is rocking in winds from 8 - 12 (with 12 being the absolute worst)!  Seriously though I read that glasses of water and food can and will slide right off the table onto the floor -- for those who are in the dining room during a storm (which is usually about half the ship), while the rest of the passengers are in their staterooms with saltines.  So at least we know what to expect.
> 
> Flying to Antarctica is also very challenging.  I prefer the ship!
> 
> We are so excited for this trip.  It will be our last continent, which makes it very special for us.



I'm super interesting in this report, too. Antartica is definitely on our list. I want to do the north first though (greenland, svalvard, faroes etc.) I got close to the Faroes (my #1 bucket item) but as those who were on my DCL Iceland/Norway cruise remember, they pulled the port. One day!


----------



## Dis_Yoda

For those that have used Tauck (Small Groups) what did you find the age range to be?  

My husband and I are using them in October since ABD's Adult Only Italy trip did not work for us date wise.  

~~~

Has anyone done of the Polar Bear Journeys through National Geographic, Tauck or someone else?  Which one was your favorite?  My husband originally wanted Japan for 2019 - but he now wants to see the Polar Bears...


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> So ABD guides who dress up in cultural clothes that have nothing to do with their own culture (cultural appropriation) in a restaurant that is 800 years old and allow their guests to insult other members of their tour who happen to be from another country is being respectful of all people, cultures and places?



I am also a Canadian -- born and raised.  I have made some amazing friends on our trips -- one family we have traveled with twice since our ABD together.  Another family we met in Australia was supposed to come to China with us but didn't get their Visa (this does happen albeit very rarely).  We met another Canadian family on our China trip last summer.  We've never been disrespected at any time by anyone on our trips.  If I felt that I was I would very gently say something to let the person know that I was offended, but I have a good sense of humor (at least I think so lol) and very thick skin.  I am used to people telling me they find Canadians to be so nice. 

I personally don't think the guides can pay attention to all conversations at all times, so I wouldn't put the onus on them to say something to the person who was making insensitive remarks.  The guides are laser-focused on the logistics of the trips and making sure everything goes smoothly -- unless you are speaking to them directly chances are they don't have an inkling what people are talking about.

We had a very, very sick traveler on our trip to N. Italy / Switzerland last summer (he started getting quite ill on our second full day) and the guides handled the situation with such professionalism I was astonished, since they were both quite young (mid 20s and late 20s).


----------



## Cousin Orville

This reminds me of the time we arrived in Beijing for our ABD.  My 9yo son had assumed Jennae (our guide in Vietnam the previous year) would be our guide for China as well.  When we met our new guides, my ds happened to mention his confusion.  That evening Jennae facetimed in from Europe to just say hi to him and how much she though he'd like the new guides.

During my backstage magic, Michael had overheard I had a guide name Jason years earlier.  He went out of his way to contact his friend Jason who was a VIP guide at DL to come over to Carthay Circle Restaurant just to say hi to me.

I'm not going to comment beyond the fact that these are two wonderful people.  We all can make mistakes.  Sometimes what we do within reason doesn't please everyone.  But these are two of the best people and two of the best guides I have had the pleasure of having in my limited experience of ABD and private tours.  Just my experience though.


----------



## Cousin Orville

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> Butterfield and Robinson offers a family trip to Morocco!



Thanks for the suggestion.  I'm off to look it up now.



*WDW*Groupie* said:


> Here are the ages of the tween/teenagers on our voyage:
> Females: 11, 10, 11, 12, 14, 11, 16, 14, 13, 12, 17, 15
> Males: 14, 8, 13, 9, 12, 13, 16, 12, 10, 14, 11



Antarctica is slowly making its way up our list as well.  I was very much wondering what the age range on the A&K trip was.  It will probably still be another 4-5 yrs before my youngest is old enough.  I only want to do this trip once as a family.  So, this helps a lot.


----------



## CrazyZeus1

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I am also a Canadian -- born and raised.  I have made some amazing friends on our trips -- one family we have traveled with twice since our ABD together.  Another family we met in Australia was supposed to come to China with us but didn't get their Visa (this does happen albeit very rarely).  We met another Canadian family on our China trip last summer.  We've never been disrespected at any time by anyone on our trips.  If I felt that I was I would very gently say something to let the person know that I was offended, but I have a good sense of humor (at least I think so lol) and very thick skin.  I am used to people telling me they find Canadians to be so nice.
> 
> I personally don't think the guides can pay attention to all conversations at all times, so I wouldn't put the onus on them to say something to the person who was making insensitive remarks.  The guides are laser-focused on the logistics of the trips and making sure everything goes smoothly -- unless you are speaking to them directly chances are they don't have an inkling what people are talking about.
> 
> We had a very, very sick traveler on our trip to N. Italy / Switzerland last summer (he started getting quite ill on our second full day) and the guides handled the situation with such professionalism I was astonished, since they were both quite young (mid 20s and late 20s).


You sound like wonderful travel companions!


----------



## CrazyZeus1

Cousin Orville said:


> This reminds me of the time we arrived in Beijing for our ABD.  My 9yo son had assumed Jennae (our guide in Vietnam the previous year) would be our guide for China as well.  When we met our new guides, my ds happened to mention his confusion.  That evening Jennae facetimed in from Europe to just say hi to him and how much she though he'd like the new guides.


 That was so thoughtful of her to do that!  We have South Africa on our 2018 list and I know Jennae runs SA often so I hope she is our guide!  We had her on the Danube but since it's not quite the same as far as getting to know your guides, we spent some time with her but I want more! ha!


----------



## Cousin Orville

CrazyZeus1 said:


> That was so thoughtful of her to do that!  We have South Africa on our 2018 list and I know Jennae runs SA often so I hope she is our guide!  We had her on the Danube but since it's not quite the same as far as getting to know your guides, we spent some time with her but I want more! ha!



Yep.  I saw her FB posts from South Africa last month.  We have South Africa in July and China again in October.  I'm hoping she's on one of them.


----------



## CrazyZeus1

Cousin Orville said:


> Yep.  I saw her FB posts from South Africa last month.  We have South Africa in July and China again in October.  I'm hoping she's on one of them.


China this October?  We're doing that itenerary!  We've got 2 other mother/daughter duos joining us that we've met on other ABDs...do I already know we'll be together on this itenerary too?  I forget who I've connected with here on which trips! hahahahahah


----------



## Cousin Orville

CrazyZeus1 said:


> China this October?  We're doing that itenerary!  We've got 2 other mother/daughter duos joining us that we've met on other ABDs...do I already know we'll be together on this itenerary too?  I forget who I've connected with here on which trips! hahahahahah



We're on the 10/14 trip.  It's the DIS Boards ABD.  It finishes 10/25.  I'm guessing you're on the 10/22 trip?


----------



## AquamarineSteph

Dis_Yoda said:


> For those that have used Tauck (Small Groups) what did you find the age range to be?



We did one of the small groups Tauck tours last year, and the age range was from an adult grandson (youngest person) to three people who are mature but nowhere near retiring yet (me, my other half & the grandson's mother) to definitely retired.  I'm not saying that to be disparaging of retirement.  I'm just trying to think of a way to gently state the ages of our group.  We skewed to much older than I expected.  

That doesn't mean it was a bad trip, and that doesn't mean all Tauck tours are like that.  That was just our experience.


----------



## CaliKris

AquamarineSteph said:


> We did one of the small groups Tauck tours last year, and the age range was from an adult grandson (youngest person) to three people who are mature but nowhere near retiring yet (me, my other half & the grandson's mother) to definitely retired.  I'm not saying that to be disparaging of retirement.  I'm just trying to think of a way to gently state the ages of our group.  We skewed to much older than I expected.
> 
> That doesn't mean it was a bad trip, and that doesn't mean all Tauck tours are like that.  That was just our experience.


I was wondering about Tauck small group tours as well.  Thanks for answering the question.


----------



## Dis_Yoda

AquamarineSteph said:


> We did one of the small groups Tauck tours last year, and the age range was from an adult grandson (youngest person) to three people who are mature but nowhere near retiring yet (me, my other half & the grandson's mother) to definitely retired.  I'm not saying that to be disparaging of retirement.  I'm just trying to think of a way to gently state the ages of our group.  We skewed to much older than I expected.
> 
> That doesn't mean it was a bad trip, and that doesn't mean all Tauck tours are like that.  That was just our experience.



Well - I had a feeling.  I know the small group tours are expensive (even the non-small ones are) I think my husband and I may end up the youngest (31 and 33) 

Which tour did you do?


----------



## RebelHawk

Cousin Orville said:


> We're on the 10/14 trip.  It's the DIS Boards ABD.  It finishes 10/25.  I'm guessing you're on the 10/22 trip?



My wife and I were signed up for this China DIS ABD trip but our regular world traveling companions didn't get in quick enough to get a spot. We decided to give up our two spots so we could do that China trip with our IRL friends. I can not wait to read the amazing trip reports from this so I can guilt our good friends (good naturally of course) for years to come.


----------



## Chirple

I wish my wallet was as big as my bucket list, and all of these options you are talking about in this thread keep adding to it.


----------



## CrazyZeus1

Cousin Orville said:


> We're on the 10/14 trip.  It's the DIS Boards ABD.  It finishes 10/25.  I'm guessing you're on the 10/22 trip?


Ah!  Yes, we're on the 10/22 trip.  Have fun!!


----------



## AquamarineSteph

Dis_Yoda said:


> Well - I had a feeling.  I know the small group tours are expensive (even the non-small ones are) I think my husband and I may end up the youngest (31 and 33)
> 
> Which tour did you do?



We did the Ultimate Alps & Dolomites tour.  Amazing scenery.  Seriously.  That part of Europe is just gorgeous.


----------



## tink1970

AquamarineSteph said:


> We did the Ultimate Alps & Dolomites tour



This is one of the two Tauck tours I'm waiting (none too patiently) on them to release the dates. My mother and I are taking my DD to summer school in Scotland (probably) again in 2018 so DH has said we can just tour around Europe while we wait to take her home after 3 weeks. It's on the short list if the dates are right.

Did you enjoy it?


----------



## AquamarineSteph

tink1970 said:


> This is one of the two Tauck tours I'm waiting (none too patiently) on them to release the dates. My mother and I are taking my DD to summer school in Scotland (probably) again in 2018 so DH has said we can just tour around Europe while we wait to take her home after 3 weeks. It's on the short list if the dates are right.
> 
> Did you enjoy it?



Quick review:  We arrived a couple of days early to see a little more of Munich than the tour itself does which I think was a good choice on our part.  We tried out the local public transportation and visited the zoo.  We found the church which has the 'devil's footprint' in it.  And it's fun to just do the local thing on your own to get a feel of the place while dodging the bicyclists.  ;-)

The tour itself was well designed.  Fabulous hotels.  The mountains are simply breathtaking, and you have a first class view of everything.  I LOVED the tour of the salt mines. That was so much fun! Being in Lichtenstein was also fun.  We were able to tour their Parliament and even sit in the seats which felt like getting away with something forbidden.    All of the countries had great highlights, though.   There was a good balance between activities and free time in almost every city.   

I liked their way of handling luggage transfers.  Instead of putting suitcases into the hallway, you left them tagged inside your room.  That way you could still leave your personal items - last minute sweater, hat, day bag, etc., in the room and grab it before heading to the bus.  And speaking of the bus, our driver was incredible.

I suggest that you pack at least two nice things to wear to dinner.  Many of our included evening meals were significantly dressier than what I have seen on ABD tours.

There were two things I didn't enjoy on this tour.  One of them was a fellow tourist who had to complain loudly, daily, about everything.  Literally.  That's always a possibility when you travel with a group, so I just mention it in passing.  The other was something our tour guide did which I'm thinking might be specific to this particular guide.  Every day we received a sheet with everything we were doing and the time we were doing it.  Yes, I love to know where we're going and what we'll see, but I didn't enjoy knowing that we would be touring X at 4:24 pm and then Y was slated between 5:05 pm and 5:35 pm, and the bathroom break would be from 5:35 pm to 5:50 pm.  Yes, the schedule was that detailed.  That just made me feel stressed because it made me feel constantly aware of the time and its passage rather than sitting back to enjoy an interlude.  That's a personal thing, though.  I imagine many people might enjoy that.

So, yes, it was a great trip.  We saw SO MANY things and places that still amaze me that I've seen them!


----------



## tink1970

AquamarineSteph said:


> Quick review:  We arrived a couple of days early to see a little more of Munich than the tour itself does which I think was a good choice on our part.  We tried out the local public transportation and visited the zoo.  We found the church which has the 'devil's footprint' in it.  And it's fun to just do the local thing on your own to get a feel of the place while dodging the bicyclists.  ;-)
> 
> The tour itself was well designed.  Fabulous hotels.  The mountains are simply breathtaking, and you have a first class view of everything.  I LOVED the tour of the salt mines. That was so much fun! Being in Lichtenstein was also fun.  We were able to tour their Parliament and even sit in the seats which felt like getting away with something forbidden.    All of the countries had great highlights, though.   There was a good balance between activities and free time in almost every city.
> 
> I liked their way of handling luggage transfers.  Instead of putting suitcases into the hallway, you left them tagged inside your room.  That way you could still leave your personal items - last minute sweater, hat, day bag, etc., in the room and grab it before heading to the bus.  And speaking of the bus, our driver was incredible.
> 
> I suggest that you pack at least two nice things to wear to dinner.  Many of our included evening meals were significantly dressier than what I have seen on ABD tours.
> 
> There were two things I didn't enjoy on this tour.  One of them was a fellow tourist who had to complain loudly, daily, about everything.  Literally.  That's always a possibility when you travel with a group, so I just mention it in passing.  The other was something our tour guide did which I'm thinking might be specific to this particular guide.  Every day we received a sheet with everything we were doing and the time we were doing it.  Yes, I love to know where we're going and what we'll see, but I didn't enjoy knowing that we would be touring X at 4:24 pm and then Y was slated between 5:05 pm and 5:35 pm, and the bathroom break would be from 5:35 pm to 5:50 pm.  Yes, the schedule was that detailed.  That just made me feel stressed because it made me feel constantly aware of the time and its passage rather than sitting back to enjoy an interlude.  That's a personal thing, though.  I imagine many people might enjoy that.
> 
> So, yes, it was a great trip.  We saw SO MANY things and places that still amaze me that I've seen them!



Oh, thank you so much! I've toured with Tauck before and really like leaving bags IN rooms vice out...small thing but nice 

I'm a planner and am of the time is money mindset so I'd probably love the detailed itinerary 

There are so many things on the trip that look wonderful...the scenery being number one. I hope the dates work for our trip-I think my Mom, who has never been to that part of Europe, would love it.

Appreciate your feedback, now back to constantly checking to see if it's been announced.


----------



## ngl

I know when I called Tauck they did not seem to have an "official" way of releasing dates. They say it is based on interest. Would really like to do one tour if the dates are right and if not, may do ABD. Do you know anything more about their release of dates?


tink1970 said:


> This is one of the two Tauck tours I'm waiting (none too patiently) on them to release the dates. My mother and I are taking my DD to summer school in Scotland (probably) again in 2018 so DH has said we can just tour around Europe while we wait to take her home after 3 weeks. It's on the short list if the dates are right.
> 
> Did you enjoy it?


----------



## tink1970

ngl said:


> I know when I called Tauck they did not seem to have an "official" way of releasing dates. They say it is based on interest. Would really like to do one tour if the dates are right and if not, may do ABD. Do you know anything more about their release of dates?




I don't, unfortunately. I'd been waiting and looking and getting mixed messages from their call center. So...ABD for me in 2018.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

For those of you following my blog, I have not forgotten you or it. I've just gotten really busy with work but it's almost finished. I just need a few last pictures of things and then it will be posted in full this weekend.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

Hi Everyone, the final posts are now up on the blog. Let me know if you'd be interested in a post on my thoughts/observations on the trip in general, although much of that is found throughout the blog itself.


----------



## Praise2Him

Has anyone done a river cruise with another company? Preferably Rhine, but any will do. I'm looking at Viking and it looks awesome. Any other good companies?


----------



## aggiedog

We're doing the Rhine in September on CroisiEurope.  It's thru Road Scholar.  I'll report back in the Fall.


----------



## Bobo912

Praise2Him said:


> Has anyone done a river cruise with another company? Preferably Rhine, but any will do. I'm looking at Viking and it looks awesome. Any other good companies?



I've done Danube with Tauck and Rhine with Uniworld.  Both were family cruises and both were awesome.  Not sure if you are traveling with a family, but Viking does not encourage young travelers on their cruises.


----------



## Praise2Him

Bobo912 said:


> I've done Danube with Tauck and Rhine with Uniworld.  Both were family cruises and both were awesome.  Not sure if you are traveling with a family, but Viking does not encourage young travelers on their cruises.



Thanks! No, it's just me and my sister (mid-fifties)

The ABD itinerary looks awesome but we really want something more affordable.


----------



## Bobo912

Praise2Him said:


> Thanks! No, it's just me and my sister (mid-fifties)
> 
> The ABD itinerary looks awesome but we really want something more affordable.



You should check out Uniworld, as well as Viking.  Uniworld has an early booking discount and a paid in full discount.  They also offer some deals on airfare.  And if your a Costco member you get 10% off, in addition to the other discounts.


----------



## Praise2Him

Bobo912 said:


> You should check out Uniworld, as well as Viking.  Uniworld has an early booking discount and a paid in full discount.  They also offer some deals on airfare.  And if your a Costco member you get 10% off, in addition to the other discounts.



Yes I am! Thanks! I will check them out right now.


----------



## tink1970

Praise2Him said:


> Yes I am! Thanks! I will check them out right now.



Would love to know what you decide and once you go, report back. We have friends who loved Viking and I suspect that would be my preference since Uniworld seems a bit fussy in decor. That said, the more information the better


----------



## Calfan

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> Hi Everyone, the final posts are now up on the blog. Let me know if you'd be interested in a post on my thoughts/observations on the trip in general, although much of that is found throughout the blog itself.



Just finished reading your latest blog entries.  Thanks so much for posting. The trip looks fantastic, and I loved your pictures from Angkor!  Definitely on my list for a future trip.


----------



## BluesTraveler

@Cinderellaslipper - Fascinating pictures and posts.  I know you weren't crazy about your traveling companions, but I'd be interested in your general thoughts about NatGeo.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

BluesTraveler said:


> Fascinating pictures and posts.  I know you weren't crazy about your traveling companions, but I'd be interested in your general thoughts about NatGeo.



NatGeo was amazing. Our guides were fantastic. Jessica was our main/primary guide and she stayed with us the entire time. She didn't try to dominate the tour, she let the local guides lead in the various countries but was knowledgeable enough of the different countries that if we had questions we could ask her while the local guides continued giving the discussions. Before the trip started we had a trip coordinator that handled all of our questions so we always had the same person to deal with, not like ABD where you deal with whoever answers the phone. One of the big pluses was that we booked our trip a year in advance and they told us outright not to book any airfare until THEY told us to. They wait until the trip is guaranteed to go before they give the go ahead for everyone to book their airfare. The minimum number for our trip was 8 but we got the go ahead to book at 10 people. We also like the fact that we were doing something every day so we really got our money's worth.

The guides also did a good job of reading the group and knowing when it was time to move the group on or moving the conversation on. NatGeo doesn't use two of their own guides (American lead guide supplemented by another so called local guide) supplemented by other local guides. For our trip, Jessica is from Malaysian Borneo but who spent years living in Ha Noi and then we had 3 local guides, one from Vietnam, one for Lao and one from Cambodia, each from their tourism boards, each licensed to lead in their respective countries.

Jessica spoke Vietnamese, some Lao and some Cambodian, which came in handy when it came time to shop or go to dinner because she could write down the street address for the taxis in the local language. Also she gave amazing dinner recommendations, unlike on our ABD in Central Europe where the dinner recommendations consisted of the local McDonalds or the local supermarket. Jessica actually recommended local places based on your preference, so for us, she recommended the Know One, Teach One called Pots and Pans. She even made us the reservation. 

Before we left Cambodia, Jessica let us know that we could contact her at any time after we got home for information on South East Asia because the area "was her playground" (those are her words, not mine). She has given us in-country tour operators that will custom make us a trip to Vietnam as we plan to return to the country in 2019.

Any issues we had on the trip were more issues with our tour companions and not with NatGeo so we will definitely travel with NatGeo again. We found that NatGeo has the customer service that we would expect a company like ABD to have but is sadly lacking there these days. We'll be doing a private expedition with NatGeo next year so will see how that goes. I'll do a blog for that trip next year so you can follow along on that one too.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

Calfan said:


> Just finished reading your latest blog entries.  Thanks so much for posting. The trip looks fantastic, and I loved your pictures from Angkor!  Definitely on my list for a future trip.



It's all your fault. You did the England Coast to Coast and introduced us to Nat Geo and their trips. Now we're off to Zambia next year on a Nat Geo Private Expedition.


----------



## Calfan

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> It's all your fault. You did the England Coast to Coast and introduced us to Nat Geo and their trips. Now we're off to Zambia next year on a Nat Geo Private Expedition.



Hah!  Glad the introduction was successful   My family will be doing a NatGeo trip in 2018. Now we just need to decide where...  I'm leaning toward Tanzania.  By the way, my DH and I took a trip to Zambia in 2001 (along with Zimbabwe) and absolutely loved it, so I'm sure your private experience with NatGeo will be amazing.


----------



## BluesTraveler

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> NatGeo was amazing. Our guides were fantastic. Jessica was our main/primary guide and she stayed with us the entire time. She didn't try to dominate the tour, she let the local guides lead in the various countries but was knowledgeable enough of the different countries that if we had questions we could ask her while the local guides continued giving the discussions. Before the trip started we had a trip coordinator that handled all of our questions so we always had the same person to deal with, not like ABD where you deal with whoever answers the phone. One of the big pluses was that we booked our trip a year in advance and they told us outright not to book any airfare until THEY told us to. They wait until the trip is guaranteed to go before they give the go ahead for everyone to book their airfare. The minimum number for our trip was 8 but we got the go ahead to book at 10 people. We also like the fact that we were doing something every day so we really got our money's worth.
> 
> The guides also did a good job of reading the group and knowing when it was time to move the group on or moving the conversation on. NatGeo doesn't use two of their own guides (American lead guide supplemented by another so called local guide) supplemented by other local guides. For our trip, Jessica is from Malaysian Borneo but who spent years living in Ha Noi and then we had 3 local guides, one from Vietnam, one for Lao and one from Cambodia, each from their tourism boards, each licensed to lead in their respective countries.
> 
> Jessica spoke Vietnamese, some Lao and some Cambodian, which came in handy when it came time to shop or go to dinner because she could write down the street address for the taxis in the local language. Also she gave amazing dinner recommendations, unlike on our ABD in Central Europe where the dinner recommendations consisted of the local McDonalds or the local supermarket. Jessica actually recommended local places based on your preference, so for us, she recommended the Know One, Teach One called Pots and Pans. She even made us the reservation.
> 
> Before we left Cambodia, Jessica let us know that we could contact her at any time after we got home for information on South East Asia because the area "was her playground" (those are her words, not mine). She has given us in-country tour operators that will custom make us a trip to Vietnam as we plan to return to the country in 2019.
> 
> Any issues we had on the trip were more issues with our tour companions and not with NatGeo so we will definitely travel with NatGeo again. We found that NatGeo has the customer service that we would expect a company like ABD to have but is sadly lacking there these days. We'll be doing a private expedition with NatGeo next year so will see how that goes. I'll do a blog for that trip next year so you can follow along on that one too.


Great to know, thank you.  My husband and I are dying to do one of their hiking trips.  Hard to fit it all in!


----------



## YodasMom

I'm really enjoying your report, Cinderella's Slipper 2015!  I'm not done, yet, with your latest installments but the trip is just so fascinating!!!

To anyone who has done the National Geo. tours, which category do you recommend for a single middle aged adult?  And, are there tours that are more modestly priced than ABD?  Traveling single, they've now exceeded my budget, plus some of the family type activities aren't a big interest.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

YodasMom said:


> I'm really enjoying your report, Cinderella's Slipper 2015!  I'm not done, yet, with your latest installments but the trip is just so fascinating!!!
> 
> To anyone who has done the National Geo. tours, which category do you recommend for a single middle aged adult?  And, are there tours that are more modestly priced than ABD?  Traveling single, they've now exceeded my budget, plus some of the family type activities aren't a big interest.



Try looking at G Adventures. They are open to single travelers and they run a number of Nat Geo's Journeys trips. They are also quite a bit cheaper but still offer the quality, otherwise Nat Geo wouldn't partner with them. We're actually considering one of their train trips through Europe.

Also, with Nat Geo, as a single traveler, if you're willing to share with another single of the same sex, they wave the single supplement. And as for being a single traveler with Nat Geo and what category you should take, it's completely up to you. We had 2 on our trip. 1 was a younger lady in her mid-twenties and one was an older gentleman in his mid fifties. They did a lot of touring together, except in Ha Noi, when she came with us to go shopping.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

Calfan said:


> Hah!  Glad the introduction was successful   My family will be doing a NatGeo trip in 2018. Now we just need to decide where...  I'm leaning toward Tanzania.  By the way, my DH and I took a trip to Zambia in 2001 (along with Zimbabwe) and absolutely loved it, so I'm sure your private experience with NatGeo will be amazing.



Africa is a bucket list location for my mom and Zambia does walking safaris as well as goes to Victoria Falls so that was a great trip, plus they had a discount on that they let us apply to next year. It's a private expedition so will be an interesting experience.


----------



## Calfan

YodasMom said:


> To anyone who has done the National Geo. tours, which category do you recommend for a single middle aged adult?  And, are there tours that are more modestly priced than ABD?  Traveling single, they've now exceeded my budget, plus some of the family type activities aren't a big interest.





Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> Try looking at G Adventures. They are open to single travelers and they run a number of Nat Geo's Journeys trips. They are also quite a bit cheaper but still offer the quality, otherwise Nat Geo wouldn't partner with them. We're actually considering one of their train trips through Europe.
> 
> Also, with Nat Geo, as a single traveler, if you're willing to share with another single of the same sex, they wave the single supplement. And as for being a single traveler with Nat Geo and what category you should take, it's completely up to you. We had 2 on our trip. 1 was a younger lady in her mid-twenties and one was an older gentleman in his mid fifties. They did a lot of touring together, except in Ha Noi, when she came with us to go shopping.



YodasMom, if you are active, you might also look at the hiking trips offered by National Geographic Adventures.  On England Coast to Coast, there were several single travelers in our group, and there were two on Hiking the Emerald Isle.  England Coast to Coast had a slightly older demographic (at least on our departure).  CaliforniaGirl09 and I were the youngest by a significant margin in our late 40s.  But we thoroughly enjoyed the group and are super excited that one couple (in their early 60s) will be joining us on our Patagonia Hiking Adventure later this year.  In Ireland, there were a couple of women celebrating their 50th birthdays and also a younger professional who was probably in her late 30s or early 40s.


----------



## DCPhotoGal

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> NatGeo was amazing. ...
> Any issues we had on the trip were more issues with our tour companions and not with NatGeo so we will definitely travel with NatGeo again. We found that NatGeo has the customer service that we would expect a company like ABD to have but is sadly lacking there these days. We'll be doing a private expedition with NatGeo next year so will see how that goes. I'll do a blog for that trip next year so you can follow along on that one too.



I just wanted to thank you for taking the time to write up and share your trip report.  I finally got a few moments to look through it now.  My husband really wants to head to that region (he's thinking the ABD) and it good to get inspired.  I especially like how you shared the souvenirs that you picked up, and some of the books that you mention reading that relate to the locations you visit.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

DCPhotoGal said:


> I just wanted to thank you for taking the time to write up and share your trip report.  I finally got a few moments to look through it now.  My husband really wants to head to that region (he's thinking the ABD) and it good to get inspired.  I especially like how you shared the souvenirs that you picked up, and some of the books that you mention reading that relate to the locations you visit.



I don't want to discourage you from taking the ABD trip because everyone needs to make up their own minds about which tour operator to travel with but I know for us, because we seriously looked at the ABD trip, one of the deciding factors against ABD was the amount of on your own time that came with the trip and the fact that we would be paying for that, not just with the cost of the trip but the fact that we would be expected to pay our guides for that time. Plus any activities we wanted to do outside of the resort in Hoi An, we'd have to pay for separately. This didn't really appeal to us and while Nat Geo was more expensive at the outset, when we broke it down on a daily basis as to what we felt we were getting out of the trip, we found Nat Geo was actually the lower cost per day. Plus, it depends on where you want to go. The major selling point for my mom was the 2 days out on Ha Long Bay on a wooden junk (boat). For me it was the extensive temple touring in Cambodia even though I fell in love with Vietnam.

As for sharing the souvenirs, I wanted to show that it was possible to purchase quality souvenirs even with limited luggage. Unlike with ABD, who lets you bring as much luggage as you want on the trips, Nat Geo was quite strict about our luggage requirements. We were allowed to bring one large suitcase and one backpack to be used as your carry on, the combined weight of both could be no more than 44 pounds. The most difficult thing for me to get home was the wall fan. It only just fit in my checked suitcase with no extra room to spare on the length of it in its box and I had to bring that from Ha Noi through Ha Long Bay to Lao and finally Cambodia.


----------



## AquamarineSteph

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> Try looking at G Adventures. They are open to single travelers and they run a number of Nat Geo's Journeys trips. They are also quite a bit cheaper but still offer the quality, otherwise Nat Geo wouldn't partner with them. We're actually considering one of their train trips through Europe.



We did Costa Rica with G Adventures/National Geographic earlier this year.  I am still raving about that tour.  It was incredible, and it is one of the top three tours for quality and adventure that I have ever done.


----------



## AquamarineSteph

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> As for sharing the souvenirs, I wanted to show that it was possible to purchase quality souvenirs even with limited luggage. Unlike with ABD, who lets you bring as much luggage as you want on the trips, Nat Geo was quite strict about our luggage requirements.



Adding that our trip in Costa Rica also had strict luggage requirements.  You have to haul your own luggage as opposed to ABD which moves it for you (outside of your own daypack, of course).  Our luggage was strapped to the top of the bus or jammed into the rear if we had use of a larger bus that day.  At one point as we were moving to a boat to get from point A to point B that meant going down and up extremely steep slopes while hauling this yourself.  

I'm not saying this as a pro or con.  I'm throwing it out there for information.   I found this trip to be an incredible adventure, but everyone has a different travel style and comfort level as well as different expectations about what you want to get out of a travel holiday.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

AquamarineSteph said:


> Adding that our trip in Costa Rica also had strict luggage requirements.  You have to haul your own luggage as opposed to ABD which moves it for you (outside of your own daypack, of course).  Our luggage was strapped to the top of the bus or jammed into the rear if we had use of a larger bus that day.  At one point as we were moving to a boat to get from point A to point B that meant going down and up extremely steep slopes while hauling this yourself.
> 
> I'm not saying this as a pro or con.  I'm throwing it out there for information.   I found this trip to be an incredible adventure, but everyone has a different travel style and comfort level as well as different expectations about what you want to get out of a travel holiday.



Other than having our luggage picked up by Bell Services and loaded into our buses, we were the ones hauling it through the airports. And given the fact that in S.E. Asia, you are loading and unloading the planes from the tarmac (and some of those planes are 3 storeys tall), having a backpack for a carry on was a blessing and a life saver. Especially when we first arrived in Sai Gon since it was late at night and those A330s are FAR off the ground and we had to walk down the stairs.


----------



## Ava

AquamarineSteph said:


> We did Costa Rica with G Adventures/National Geographic earlier this year.  I am still raving about that tour.  It was incredible, and it is one of the top three tours for quality and adventure that I have ever done.


I have spent... a lot... of time reading through G Adventures website and they have some tours that sound absolutely incredible, especially the rail & marine tours. I traveled through Europe for 6 weeks by train right after I finished college; it was an amazing experience that I know I can never replicate but I'd love to do shorter rail trips with my family. (The one thing that turns me off from group tours is that many of them transport you from place to place by bus, which is probably my least favorite mode of transportation.)

I wish they had a wider variety of family tours, but understand that it's probably difficult to provide the level of service needed for families at their price points in the US & Europe. The ones they do have sound wonderful though. When we're ready to venture to South America or Asia, I'll definitely consider them.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> I don't want to discourage you from taking the ABD trip because everyone needs to make up their own minds about which tour operator to travel with but I know for us, because we seriously looked at the ABD trip, one of the deciding factors against ABD was the amount of on your own time that came with the trip and the fact that we would be paying for that, not just with the cost of the trip but the fact that we would be expected to pay our guides for that time. Plus any activities we wanted to do outside of the resort in Hoi An, we'd have to pay for separately. This didn't really appeal to us and while Nat Geo was more expensive at the outset, when we broke it down on a daily basis as to what we felt we were getting out of the trip, we found Nat Geo was actually the lower cost per day. Plus, it depends on where you want to go. The major selling point for my mom was the 2 days out on Ha Long Bay on a wooden junk (boat). For me it was the extensive temple touring in Cambodia even though I fell in love with Vietnam.
> 
> As for sharing the souvenirs, I wanted to show that it was possible to purchase quality souvenirs even with limited luggage. Unlike with ABD, who lets you bring as much luggage as you want on the trips, Nat Geo was quite strict about our luggage requirements. We were allowed to bring one large suitcase and one backpack to be used as your carry on, the combined weight of both could be no more than 44 pounds. The most difficult thing for me to get home was the wall fan. It only just fit in my checked suitcase with no extra room to spare on the length of it in its box and I had to bring that from Ha Noi through Ha Long Bay to Lao and finally Cambodia.



I was reading the ABD itinerary in more detail last night and almost half of the dinners are on your own.  This puzzled me a bit because it seems like a lot of on your own time.  I like a bit of OYO time, but also enjoy spending the evening meal sharing travel stores and recounting the day with our fellow travelers.

However we can only do this trip over Christmas and ABD has the trip that fits our schedule and visits all 3 countries, so we have it booked.  It will be interesting to see how this much OYO time pans out for us.  Hopefully we will be able to share most of the 'alone' dinners with others in our group (this is what we have done in the past).

I wanted to add that I LOVE the elephant puzzle.  Do you recall where you bought it?  It will be a must have item for me to get for my nephews (and maybe one for myself!).


----------



## sayhello

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> The most difficult thing for me to get home was the wall fan. It only just fit in my checked suitcase with no extra room to spare on the length of it in its box and I had to bring that from Ha Noi through Ha Long Bay to Lao and finally Cambodia.


You bought a *wall fan* as a souvenir??

Sayhello


----------



## Cousin Orville

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I was reading the ABD itinerary in more detail last night and almost half of the dinners are on your own.  This puzzled me a bit because it seems like a lot of on your own time.  I like a bit of OYO time, but also enjoy spending the evening meal sharing travel stores and recounting the day with our fellow travelers.
> 
> However we can only do this trip over Christmas and ABD has the trip that fits our schedule and visits all 3 countries, so we have it booked.  It will be interesting to see how this much OYO time pans out for us.  Hopefully we will be able to share most of the 'alone' dinners with others in our group (this is what we have done in the past).
> 
> I wanted to add that I LOVE the elephant puzzle.  Do you recall where you bought it?  It will be a must have item for me to get for my nephews (and maybe one for myself!).



This is still my favorite ABD itinerary, although there are a number of OYO nights.  We did eat at some awesome restaurants on our own.  The best of which was in Siem Reap - a restaurant called Cuisine Wat Damnak.  It's run by a French chef cooking up Khmer food.  Incredible.  Michelin star quality.


----------



## acndis

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I was reading the ABD itinerary in more detail last night and almost half of the dinners are on your own.  This puzzled me a bit because it seems like a lot of on your own time.  I like a bit of OYO time, but also enjoy spending the evening meal sharing travel stores and recounting the day with our fellow travelers.
> 
> However we can only do this trip over Christmas and ABD has the trip that fits our schedule and visits all 3 countries, so we have it booked.  It will be interesting to see how this much OYO time pans out for us.  Hopefully we will be able to share most of the 'alone' dinners with others in our group (this is what we have done in the past).
> 
> I wanted to add that I LOVE the elephant puzzle.  Do you recall where you bought it?  It will be a must have item for me to get for my nephews (and maybe one for myself!).


The SE Asia trip is VERY food heavy.  My family are big eaters but we were on overload by the end of the trip and were actually thankful for no dinners on the OYO nights. We usually just skipped the meal. I gained at least 7 pounds and loved every minute of it. Most meals are multi course and are served family style. The food is absolutely incredible and I could not control myself!

Also, there ends up to be very little OYO time in this itinerary as there are many optional activities that will fill that up. It is a very active trip. We did everything and we were pretty worn out on the last day so that day we enjoyed the spa and hotel. Most of our group did, too, but you could go back to Angkor Wat as you have a two day ticket. 

You will love being there at Christmas.  We were in Saigon and they were celebrating everywhere. Apparently, the Vietnamese love Christmas and celebrate accordingly!  

Cinderella's trip also sounded amazing!  Ha Long Bay is someplace I would have loved to see.

This ABD itinerary was my favorite (Peru has become a close second)


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I was reading the ABD itinerary in more detail last night and almost half of the dinners are on your own.  This puzzled me a bit because it seems like a lot of on your own time.  I like a bit of OYO time, but also enjoy spending the evening meal sharing travel stores and recounting the day with our fellow travelers.
> 
> However we can only do this trip over Christmas and ABD has the trip that fits our schedule and visits all 3 countries, so we have it booked.  It will be interesting to see how this much OYO time pans out for us.  Hopefully we will be able to share most of the 'alone' dinners with others in our group (this is what we have done in the past).
> 
> I wanted to add that I LOVE the elephant puzzle.  Do you recall where you bought it?  It will be a must have item for me to get for my nephews (and maybe one for myself!).



I don't remember the exact store but it was on the main shopping street in Luang Prabang. We were wandering up and down the street and looking in the shops. They had a number of them sitting out on display.


----------



## YodasMom

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> Try looking at G Adventures. They are open to single travelers and they run a number of Nat Geo's Journeys trips. They are also quite a bit cheaper but still offer the quality, otherwise Nat Geo wouldn't partner with them. We're actually considering one of their train trips through Europe.
> 
> Also, with Nat Geo, as a single traveler, if you're willing to share with another single of the same sex, they wave the single supplement. And as for being a single traveler with Nat Geo and what category you should take, it's completely up to you. We had 2 on our trip. 1 was a younger lady in her mid-twenties and one was an older gentleman in his mid fifties. They did a lot of touring together, except in Ha Noi, when she came with us to go shopping.





Calfan said:


> YodasMom, if you are active, you might also look at the hiking trips offered by National Geographic Adventures.  On England Coast to Coast, there were several single travelers in our group, and there were two on Hiking the Emerald Isle.  England Coast to Coast had a slightly older demographic (at least on our departure).  CaliforniaGirl09 and I were the youngest by a significant margin in our late 40s.  But we thoroughly enjoyed the group and are super excited that one couple (in their early 60s) will be joining us on our Patagonia Hiking Adventure later this year.  In Ireland, there were a couple of women celebrating their 50th birthdays and also a younger professional who was probably in her late 30s or early 40s.



Thanks for the info!  I will check these out this weekend!!!


----------



## YodasMom

AquamarineSteph said:


> We did Costa Rica with G Adventures/National Geographic earlier this year.  I am still raving about that tour.  It was incredible, and it is one of the top three tours for quality and adventure that I have ever done.



I'm really lucky with Costa Rica travel!   My brother and sister-in-law moved there for an adventure in 1999 and still live there, so essentially my primary cost is airfare.  Gorgeous country and beautiful people!


----------



## DCPhotoGal

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> I don't want to discourage you from taking the ABD trip because everyone needs to make up their own minds about which tour operator to travel with but I know for us, because we seriously looked at the ABD trip, one of the deciding factors against ABD was the amount of on your own time that came with the trip and the fact that we would be paying for that, not just with the cost of the trip but the fact that we would be expected to pay our guides for that time. Plus any activities we wanted to do outside of the resort in Hoi An, we'd have to pay for separately. This didn't really appeal to us and while Nat Geo was more expensive at the outset, when we broke it down on a daily basis as to what we felt we were getting out of the trip, we found Nat Geo was actually the lower cost per day. Plus, it depends on where you want to go. The major selling point for my mom was the 2 days out on Ha Long Bay on a wooden junk (boat). For me it was the extensive temple touring in Cambodia even though I fell in love with Vietnam.



Thanks, that's all really helpful to consider!  I agree about the on your own time, I'm not a big fan of too much of it.  One of our biggest draws to ABD is that my kids like spending time with the other kids.  Coordinating with other families for OYO dinners can get a little complicated.


----------



## AquamarineSteph

YodasMom said:


> I'm really lucky with Costa Rica travel!   My brother and sister-in-law moved there for an adventure in 1999 and still live there, so essentially my primary cost is airfare.  Gorgeous country and beautiful people!



OMG, I don't understand why more people don't go to Costa Rica.  It is INCREDIBLE!


----------



## Calfan

Well, almost a year later, I finally finished making a photo book of our Wonders of China trip with Thomson Family Adventures.  (I actually ran out of pages just as I got to the end of the Thomson portion of the trip, so I'll have to do a mini volume 2 for the two days we added on in Shanghai for Shanghai Disneyland.)  For those interested in or thinking about Thomson, I thought I would share the photo book to give a sense of what a Thomson trip is like (at least the China itinerary):  Very active and packed with activities, with a smaller traveling group.  Down time was kept to a minimum on this itinerary, which is what I prefer from my group travel.  All meals except for one OYO dinner in Shanghai were included.  Note that the Thomson portion of the trip in the photo book begins with the Great Wall in Beijing.  We had one full pre-day in Beijing which we used to visit the Summer Palace and a couple of other sites on a private tour with The China Guide.  That preceded our welcome dinner with Thomson, but somehow I didn't take any pictures at the dinner. 

I'm hoping this link works.  It might require a Shutterfly login to access.  You might also need to copy and paste the URL into your browser.

https://share.shutterfly.com/share/received/welcome.sfly?fid=b6628d5912e9d892&sid=0AZOGzRi3ctnLlI


----------



## EllinK

Excited to see your photos. Link didn't work for me...


----------



## Calfan

EllinK said:


> Excited to see your photos. Link didn't work for me...



Sorry the link didn't work for you. If you PM me your email address, I can share with you that way.


----------



## sayhello

Did not work for me, either.    PM'd you.

Sayhello


----------



## Cousin Orville

Sent a PM as well.


----------



## Calfan

Calfan said:


> Well, almost a year later, I finally finished making a photo book of our Wonders of China trip with Thomson Family Adventures.  (I actually ran out of pages just as I got to the end of the Thomson portion of the trip, so I'll have to do a mini volume 2 for the two days we added on in Shanghai for Shanghai Disneyland.)  For those interested in or thinking about Thomson, I thought I would share the photo book to give a sense of what a Thomson trip is like (at least the China itinerary):  Very active and packed with activities, with a smaller traveling group.  Down time was kept to a minimum on this itinerary, which is what I prefer from my group travel.  All meals except for one OYO dinner in Shanghai were included.  Note that the Thomson portion of the trip in the photo book begins with the Great Wall in Beijing.  We had one full pre-day in Beijing which we used to visit the Summer Palace and a couple of other sites on a private tour with The China Guide.  That preceded our welcome dinner with Thomson, but somehow I didn't take any pictures at the dinner.
> 
> I'm hoping this link works.  It might require a Shutterfly login to access.  You might also need to copy and paste the URL into your browser.
> 
> https://share.shutterfly.com/share/received/welcome.sfly?fid=b6628d5912e9d892&sid=0AZOGzRi3ctnLlI



Can't get the link to work. Sorry!  I can share directly with interested folks if you PM me and provide an email address.


----------



## Cousin Orville

Great pictures!  It brings back fun memories.  The bike ride on the Xi'an wall and tour down into the caves in Guilin looks neat.  That's not something we did on the ABD.


----------



## LuckyBelle1

We are currently deciding between ABD and Thomson for a China trip next year and I would love to see your photos.   I am not sure how to send a PM... do I need to have a certain number of posts in order to do that?


----------



## Calfan

Cousin Orville said:


> Great pictures!  It brings back fun memories.  The bike ride on the Xi'an wall and tour down into the caves in Guilin looks neat.  That's not something we did on the ABD.



Thanks!  It was fun to relive the trip while putting the book together. 

One thing I really liked about the Thomson itinerary was spending two nights in Xi'an rather than flying in and out the same day, which allowed for the bike ride, the dumpling making and the visit to the Han tomb, as well as spending three nights in Yangshuo, which I think is one more than the ABD spends in Guilin.  Yangshuo was my favorite part of the trip, and I really appreciated having extra time there for the hike, bike ride, rafting trip, cave visit, cooking school, etc.  Of course, the trade off with the ABD is that the Thomson trip does not go to Hong Kong, which I would really like to see at some point, but my preference was to maximize the time on mainland China since it is quite likely to be my only trip there.  Hopefully I can pick up Hong Kong around another Asian trip.  And, of course, we had to do Shanghai Disneyland on our own, but that worked out fine for us taking the subway from Shanghai and doing a VIP private tour on one of our two park days.


----------



## Calfan

LuckyBelle1 said:


> We are currently deciding between ABD and Thomson for a China trip next year and I would love to see your photos.   I am not sure how to send a PM... do I need to have a certain number of posts in order to do that?



I believe the minimum number of posts for a PM is 10, so you should be able to do it.  I'll send you a PM now that you can respond to.  You will likely receive an email notification of the private conversation.  Otherwise, there is an Inbox tab at the top right of your DISBoards screen where you can access your messages.


----------



## Cousin Orville

Calfan said:


> Thanks!  It was fun to relive the trip while putting the book together.
> 
> One thing I really liked about the Thomson itinerary was spending two nights in Xi'an rather than flying in and out the same day, which allowed for the bike ride, the dumpling making and the visit to the Han tomb, as well as spending three nights in Yangshuo, which I think is one more than the ABD spends in Guilin.  Yangshuo was my favorite part of the trip, and I really appreciated having extra time there for the hike, bike ride, rafting trip, cave visit, cooking school, etc.  Of course, the trade off with the ABD is that the Thomson trip does not go to Hong Kong, which I would really like to see at some point, but my preference was to maximize the time on mainland China since it is quite likely to be my only trip there.  Hopefully I can pick up Hong Kong around another Asian trip.  And, of course, we had to do Shanghai Disneyland on our own, but that worked out fine for us taking the subway from Shanghai and doing a VIP private tour on one of our two park days.




That sounds like a good comparison between the 2 trips.  More time in Guilin would have been nice.  It was beautiful there.  More time in Shanghai would have been great too.


----------



## sayhello

Loved your photos!  It looks like you had a great trip!  Thanks for sharing!!

Sayhello


----------



## Calfan

sayhello said:


> Loved your photos!  It looks like you had a great trip!  Thanks for sharing!!
> 
> Sayhello



Thanks!  I'm looking forward to your trip report once you've completed your trip.


----------



## sayhello

Calfan said:


> Thanks!  I'm looking forward to your trip report once you've completed your trip.


Thanks!    All I need to do now is survive the flights!    I know it will be a fabulous trip!

Sayhello


----------



## CaliKris

Thanks so much for sharing your China photo book.  It looks like it was an amazing trip!  Love your photos of Guilin and the pandas in Chengdu.  Can't wait for our trip!


----------



## EllinK

Calvin -- PM'd you my email address.


----------



## Calfan

EllinK said:


> Calvin -- PM'd you my email address.



Hmmm.  EllinK, didn't receive a message.  I'll PM you.


----------



## sayhello

Calfan said:


> Hmmm.  EllinK, didn't receive a message.  I'll PM you.


Someone named Calvin is wondering why they got a request for an email...  

Sayhello


----------



## Calfan

We just booked our first family itinerary with NatGeo.  We booked the Peru Family Expedition with optional Amazon Extension for June/July 2018.  Hoping the family trips are as good as the hiking trips.  I'm excited to find out!


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Calfan said:


> We just booked our first family itinerary with NatGeo.  We booked the Peru Family Expedition with optional Amazon Extension for June/July 2018.  Hoping the family trips are as good as the hiking trips.  I'm excited to find out!



I have a friend who did a trip with Nat Geo family last year to Japan.  He loved it.  This year he is taking his family to both Tanzania and Iceland with them.

He had previously done 7 trips with ABD but had a bad experience with them last summer which turned him away from them (I can't share the entire story but he had very good reason to be upset - he didn't fight them on their {very poor IMO} business decision -- he simply took his money and business elsewhere).  He has now almost fully converted to Nat Geo family and RAVES about them.  I honestly don't think he will go back to ABD at this point and if I were in his shoes I probably wouldn't either.  

I am sure you will LOVE them as much as he does.  Last summer he met the daughter of the owners of Nat Geo family - she was on their Japan trip as an "auditor".  He said she was just amazing.


----------



## carpenta

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I have a friend who did a trip with Nat Geo family last year to Japan.  He loved it.  This year he is taking his family to both Tanzania and Iceland with them.
> 
> He had previously done 7 trips with ABD but had a bad experience with them last summer which turned him away from them (I can't share the entire story but he had very good reason to be upset - he didn't fight them on their {very poor IMO} business decision -- he simply took his money and business elsewhere).  He has now almost fully converted to Nat Geo family and RAVES about them.  I honestly don't think he will go back to ABD at this point and if I were in his shoes I probably wouldn't either.
> 
> I am sure you will LOVE them as much as he does.  Last summer he met the daughter of the owners of Nat Geo family - she was on their Japan trip as an "auditor".  He said she was just amazing.




......your "friend's" story sounds a lot like my own. We are going to Iceland with NatGeo next month after traveling with NatGeo to Yellowstone. Trips are a large investment and I can relate to taking " his money and business elsewhere.


----------



## Calfan

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I have a friend who did a trip with Nat Geo family last year to Japan.  He loved it.  This year he is taking his family to both Tanzania and Iceland with them.
> 
> He had previously done 7 trips with ABD but had a bad experience with them last summer which turned him away from them (I can't share the entire story but he had very good reason to be upset - he didn't fight them on their {very poor IMO} business decision -- he simply took his money and business elsewhere).  He has now almost fully converted to Nat Geo family and RAVES about them.  I honestly don't think he will go back to ABD at this point and if I were in his shoes I probably wouldn't either.
> 
> I am sure you will LOVE them as much as he does.  Last summer he met the daughter of the owners of Nat Geo family - she was on their Japan trip as an "auditor".  He said she was just amazing.



Thanks for sharing. That's great to hear. My two hiking trips with NatGeo have been fantastic, and I'm doing a third later this year, so I'm pretty confident we will have a great experience on the family trip. Would love to hear how your friend likes the Tanzania trip.  We almost decided on that one for next summer but opted for Peru. But Tanzania is the plan for 2019.


----------



## ngl

Big year for us next year -  DH's 50th and our 20th anniversary occur in July and Aug so trying to plan for summer 2018. We would love to do a ABD trip or possibly Tauck Bridges. Narrowed it down to Alaska or Canadian Rockies. As of right now, the dates for Alaska work better with our work schedules but could do Canada if needed.

Not sure if anyone has experience with these trips but would appreciate any feedback. From what I read most say ABD does a better job "catering" to kids than Tauck. However, Tauck's itineraries look great as well.

For a bit of background, DVC members, live 1 hr from WDW so go there every other month or so and have stayed at all DVC properties besides Hilton Head. We really love the Disney experience. However, open to Tauck based on other feedback. 

Thanks so much for any and all input!


----------



## AquamarineSteph

I have not done anything in the US with Tauck, so I don't know how well their trips here go.  I have no experience with their Bridges program. 

Having said that, I have traveled with Tauck.  If given the choice between a tour run by them and a tour run by ABD, I would pick ABD in a heartbeat.

The Alaska trip's itinerary has changed a bit since we took that trip, but the state is a must see destination in my mind.  That's not meant to reflect poorly on the Canadian Rockies.  These are both gorgeous places.  I just think everyone should visit Alaska at least once.  It is so very different than living in the lower 48 states.


----------



## Bobo912

I disagree with the statement that ABD does a better job with kids.  I've done both Tauck Bridges (2) and ABD (5).  The Bridges trips are designed for families, just like ABD, and Tauck handles the kids just as well as ABD.  The main difference I see is that the Tauck tour directors have more flexibility in how they handle the little special things that aren't part of the itinerary.  I've done one TB trip in the US and one in Europe, and all of the activities geared toward kids were great and our tour directors did a fantastic job with the kids and came up with some wonderful surprises as well.  I did the Alaska ABD the first year it was offered, so it's changed somewhat, but it was a great trip.  My DS had his 9th birthday on the last day of the trip.  They seem to have dropped the Resurrection Bay cruise in 2018 and that was the best part of the itinerary IMO.  That would be a deal breaker for me.  My advice would be pick the itinerary that most appeals to you.


----------



## tink1970

Bobo912 said:


> That would be a deal breaker for me. My advice would be pick the itinerary that most appeals to you.



Agree completely! We actually did TB in Italy for Christmas and one reason is that TB stays IN Florence. I believe TB did a good job with the children but ABD has 2 Adventure Guides so that's an advantage. So if it's all equal, don't think you can go wrong either way. We always look at dates (#1 b/c of work, ugh), itinerary, pricing then, if it's a tie- the je ne sais quoi factor


----------



## AquamarineSteph

Bobo912 said:


> My advice would be pick the itinerary that most appeals to you.



That is always the bottom line with it comes to me picking out a trip.   I'm just saying that having done a Tauck trip once I would not do another.  I would go with ABD or another company, but given the two options above, ABD would be my choice.


----------



## BluesTraveler

We did Alaska with ABD last year with our 2 boys (ages 11 and 8 at the time), and loved it.  Next year's itinerary looks even better to me.  I would definitely recommend it.

We have not done Tauck Bridges, however, we have friends that have and they absolutely loved it.  They would do it again in a heartbeat, and in terms of family-focus and activities, it sounded very similar to ABD.  I would recommend you go with whichever itinerary works best for you.


----------



## carpenta

WE have traveled with both companies and found one thing that stood out to us. The "kids" on ABD seem to skew younger ( 6yrs to 16yrs.) than Tauck which skews older (13 to 18yrs.). But I agree with think 1970 just see which itinerary  appeals to your family.


----------



## Bobo912

carpenta said:


> WE have traveled with both companies and found one thing that stood out to us. The "kids" on ABD seem to skew younger ( 6yrs to 16yrs.) than Tauck which skews older (13 to 18yrs.). But I agree with think 1970 just see which itinerary  appeals to your family.



I think that varies.  Our TB trips were pretty evenly distributed between younger kids and teenagers.  On the other hand, we've had a couple of ABDs that were mostly adults. even though they were in the middle of the summer when you would expect a lot of children.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I have a friend who did a trip with Nat Geo family last year to Japan.  He loved it.  This year he is taking his family to both Tanzania and Iceland with them.
> 
> He had previously done 7 trips with ABD but had a bad experience with them last summer which turned him away from them (I can't share the entire story but he had very good reason to be upset - he didn't fight them on their {very poor IMO} business decision -- he simply took his money and business elsewhere).  He has now almost fully converted to Nat Geo family and RAVES about them.  I honestly don't think he will go back to ABD at this point and if I were in his shoes I probably wouldn't either.
> 
> I am sure you will LOVE them as much as he does.  Last summer he met the daughter of the owners of Nat Geo family - she was on their Japan trip as an "auditor".  He said she was just amazing.



We had a similar experience where ABD was simply horrid, nearly putting me in the hospital in Europe and ABD's response was "too bad, so sad, suck it up and deal with it cause we don't care". Instead of addressing the issue, they told us to buy noise cancelling headphones instead. We'd already decided to try Nat Geo when this incident happened, thanks to Calfan posting about her trips on here and we were booked to go to South East Asia with them and now that we've done one Nat Geo trip we will never travel with ABD again. If their family trips are as good as their Active Adventures trips, then they are worth every penny and will be just as good, if not better than anything ABD can offer


----------



## ngl

Thank you all for your input!! I love gathering as much first hand information as I can. We probably are leaning towards Tauck mainly due to the date offerings. Seems like Tauck starts a lot of their trips on Saturdays which is helpful bc we can fly out Fri night to the West Coast without using an extra PTO day (ah, to not have to worry about those things. Someday!) wheres ABD does a lot of Wed departures (at least for the trips we were considering).


----------



## CrazyZeus1

We've done 10 ABDS and have 10 more booked through 2018.  We have had amazing trips (including the guides that led Cinderella Slipper) and adore the guides we've had.  So many have become good personal friends now.  We are looking into Tauk for some location options that ABD doesn't service, and I can only hope that they give the same amazing service as ABD has for us in the past!  For those who have traveled with ABD and other outfitters that have just 1 guide, have you found that to be any issue?  We've had a few smaller ABD trips with 1 guide, but it looks like larger groups with Tauk also have just 1 guide.  Curious of anyone has input on that?


----------



## CrazyZeus1

Also since we are talking OTHER OUTFITTERS:   Has anyone looked into companies that do Antarctica?  After 2019, that will be our last continent to set foot on so of course, I'm making my people brave the Drake Passage! I want my then-17-year-old to say he's been to every continent  <3   I'm excited to see Tauk has trips there because they're trusted, has anyone else looked into any others?


----------



## CaliKris

I know Lindblad Expeditions which is a division of National Geographic goes to Antartica.  So does Abercrombie & Kent.  I have heard good things about both companies, but I don't know anyone who has taken the Antartica trip with them.  I believe Abercrombie & Kent skew to an older crowd.


----------



## Calfan

CrazyZeus1 said:


> We've done 10 ABDS and have 10 more booked through 2018.  We have had amazing trips (including the guides that led Cinderella Slipper) and adore the guides we've had.  So many have become good personal friends now.  We are looking into Tauk for some location options that ABD doesn't service, and I can only hope that they give the same amazing service as ABD has for us in the past!  For those who have traveled with ABD and other outfitters that have just 1 guide, have you found that to be any issue?  We've had a few smaller ABD trips with 1 guide, but it looks like larger groups with Tauk also have just 1 guide.  Curious of anyone has input on that?



I can't speak to Tauck because we have not taken one of their trips, but if guide ratio is important for you, have you looked in to either Thomson Family Adventures or NatGeo for locations ABD doesn't cover?  For our trip with Thomson to China, we had 2 full-time guides and practically a third full-time guide in each separate city for 10 guests.  For England Coast to Coast hiking with NatGeo, we had 2 guides plus a third logistics coordinator and some-time guide for 14 guests.  For Hiking the Emerald Isle with NatGeo, we had 2 guides for 10 guests.  And the guides were all top-notch.  I'm not sure what the NatGeo guide ratio is for the family trips that max out at 25 guests, because we haven't taken our first one yet, but I'd be surprised if it was anything less than 2 guides based on my experiences on the NatGeo hiking trips.


----------



## CrazyZeus1

Thank you for your input!!  Will definitely look into them.  We had never looked outside of ABD, but friends that we travel on ABDs with want to try some other destinations and looked at Tauk.  I'll share the other info with Hubby!


----------



## disneyphx

We are actually waiting for Tauck Bridges to release their 2018 itineraries so we can decide whether to do Tauck or ABD. They have dates only.....

We have done 2 Tauck trips and 5 ABD (plus 2 coming up). For us, it is primarily about itinerary and secondarily about dates. The dates/departure day have us leaning towards Tauck for Alaska.....
The youngest kids we have ever travelled with have been on our Tauck trips. Costa Rica there were 6 kids under 8, and 8 kids 10-14 . In Central Europe, there was a big age range with most kids 8-14. On our ABD Norway triop, there were 3 kids under 12, and about 8 over 14, including 4 who had just graduated from High School. So I think it is part luck and part itinerary.
Our Tauck guides have been good, and I think if we had not been with ABD we would think they were awesome. We have not had Tauck guides do the 'magic' that some others have experienced - I guess that is the downside of the guides having a lot of autonomy.

Just wish Tauck would release an itinerary!


----------



## CrazyZeus1

disneyphx said:


> We are actually waiting for Tauck Bridges to release their 2018 itineraries so we can decide whether to do Tauck or ABD. They have dates only.....
> 
> We have done 2 Tauck trips and 5 ABD (plus 2 coming up). For us, it is primarily about itinerary and secondarily about dates. The dates/departure day have us leaning towards Tauck for Alaska.....
> The youngest kids we have ever travelled with have been on our Tauck trips. Costa Rica there were 7 kids under 7, 8 kids 9-14 and a couple older. In Central Europe, there was a big age range with most kids 8-14.
> Our Tauck guides have been good, and I think if we had not been with ABD we would think they were awesome. We have not had Tauck guides do the 'magic' that some others have experienced - I guess that is the downside of the guides having a lot of autonomy.
> 
> Just wish Tauck would release an itinerary!


We are waiting on 2018 prices too!  Our friends want to do Sicily, so we are leaning towards that!  Morocco, Japan, Antarctica, and the Northern Spain destinations are high on our list too!


----------



## AquamarineSteph

CrazyZeus1 said:


> For those who have traveled with ABD and other outfitters that have just 1 guide, have you found that to be any issue?  We've had a few smaller ABD trips with 1 guide, but it looks like larger groups with Tauk also have just 1 guide.  Curious of anyone has input on that?



The fact that Tauck only has one guide should not be an immediate deterrent.  I didn't think that we received less of an experience because of the one guide we had with them.  We've also done G Adventures co-branded with National Geographic which also had only one guide.  Our guide with that tour was equally as good as ANYONE I had with ABD, and we have travelled with Dusty.  Just saying...  

But as far as tours go, I would not recommend Tauck over ABD UNLESS - like us - you wanted a specific itinerary that was not available elsewhere.  Now G Adventures with National Geographic?  Woah. That one was up there as one of my best tours ever, but that's b/c we had a good guide.  The guide two tours after ours had his dates mixed up and missed the first night meeting with his group....


----------



## WishUponAStarryNight

AquamarineSteph said:


> The fact that Tauck only has one guide should not be an immediate deterrent.  I didn't think that we received less of an experience because of the one guide we had with them.  We've also done G Adventures co-branded with National Geographic which also had only one guide.  Our guide with that tour was equally as good as ANYONE I had with ABD, and we have travelled with Dusty.  Just saying...
> 
> But as far as tours go, I would not recommend Tauck over ABD UNLESS - like us - you wanted a specific itinerary that was not available elsewhere.  Now G Adventures with National Geographic?  Woah. That one was up there as one of my best tours ever, but that's b/c we had a good guide.  The guide two tours after ours had his dates mixed up and missed the first night meeting with his group....



Can you share what it is about your Tauck trip you didn't like?  I'm curious as to whether it's an overall Tauck issue or something that may be different on a Tauck Bridges tour.


----------



## AquamarineSteph

WishUponAStarryNight said:


> Can you share what it is about your Tauck trip you didn't like?  I'm curious as to whether it's an overall Tauck issue or something that may be different on a Tauck Bridges tour.



I am not ignoring your question, but I have to think how to explain it concisely.  Off the top of my head, I'm going to assume that the Bridges tours are structured differently from the tour we took, which would make my comment not relevant to your tour.   And Tauck has many devoted fans of its tours, so clearly they are doing something right for many people.  It just wasn't the right fit for us.

I'll see if I can think of a way to explain it better without going on and on for pages.  ;-)


----------



## ngl

We are leaning towards Alaska w Tauck for 2018 as well. ABD Alaska looks similar but again, the dates do not work as well for us. VERY happy to hear of your experiences with Tauck. We will have a 9 & 7 yr old at the time we go so hoping there will be others in that age range as well!


disneyphx said:


> We are actually waiting for Tauck Bridges to release their 2018 itineraries so we can decide whether to do Tauck or ABD. They have dates only.....
> 
> We have done 2 Tauck trips and 5 ABD (plus 2 coming up). For us, it is primarily about itinerary and secondarily about dates. The dates/departure day have us leaning towards Tauck for Alaska.....
> The youngest kids we have ever travelled with have been on our Tauck trips. Costa Rica there were 6 kids under 8, and 8 kids 10-14 . In Central Europe, there was a big age range with most kids 8-14. On our ABD Norway triop, there were 3 kids under 12, and about 8 over 14, including 4 who had just graduated from High School. So I think it is part luck and part itinerary.
> Our Tauck guides have been good, and I think if we had not been with ABD we would think they were awesome. We have not had Tauck guides do the 'magic' that some others have experienced - I guess that is the downside of the guides having a lot of autonomy.
> 
> Just wish Tauck would release an itinerary!


----------



## nordkin

AquamarineSteph said:


> I am not ignoring your question, but I have to think how to explain it concisely.  Off the top of my head, I'm going to assume that the Bridges tours are structured differently from the tour we took, which would make my comment not relevant to your tour.   And Tauck has many devoted fans of its tours, so clearly they are doing something right for many people.  It just wasn't the right fit for us.
> 
> I'll see if I can think of a way to explain it better without going on and on for pages.  ;-)


I am with you on this.  We did Yellowstone in winter with Tauck this past February with another couple we had met on an ABD tour many years ago.  All of us kept saying it was okay, but ABD was better.  I know one of the things for us was the activity level was too low for u and we are in our 60's.


----------



## Bobo912

nordkin said:


> I am with you on this.  We did Yellowstone in winter with Tauck this past February with another couple we had met on an ABD tour many years ago.  All of us kept saying it was okay, but ABD was better.  I know one of the things for us was the activity level was too low for u and we are in our 60's.



That was a regular Tauck trip, right?  The target audience is totally different, so that's comparing apples with oranges.  It would be much more accurate to compare a Bridges trip with ABD.  And they are basically the same and both excellent, except Tauck tends to include more activities and meals vs. the ever increasing on-your-own time with ABD.  And the two guides of course.


----------



## nordkin

Bobo912 said:


> That was a regular Tauck trip, right?  The target audience is totally different, so that's comparing apples with oranges.  It would be much more accurate to compare a Bridges trip with ABD.  And they are basically the same and both excellent, except Tauck tends to include more activities and meals vs. the ever increasing on-your-own time with ABD.  And the two guides of course.


We only take adults only ABD trips and it was much more than activity level. That said, I can't compare Tauck Bridges. I understand there is a difference between Tauck and Tauck Bridges, but dealing with the parent company is not different.  There were many things we did not care for and as a result, we will not do another Tauck trip.  I know it is all personal preference and we are off on another ABD trip in September.


----------



## kmc33

We are will be on the Tauck Bridges Rome, Florence, Venice, Italy trip in a month.  After doing two ABD trips, I was reluctant to switch to TB, but we liked the idea of staying in Florence, in the main part of Venice, and there was a significant price difference.  I got a lot of positive feedback on these boards before making the final decision.  After we return, I can post some observations between our ABD and TB experiences.


----------



## tink1970

kmc33 said:


> We are will be on the Tauck Bridges Rome, Florence, Venice, Italy trip in a month. After doing two ABD trips, I was reluctant to switch to TB, but we liked the idea of staying in Florence, in the main part of Venice, and there was a significant price difference. I got a lot of positive feedback on these boards before making the final decision. After we return, I can post some observations between our ABD and TB experiences.



I hope you do--the more information the better! I really enjoyed staying so close to the Ponte Vecchio in Florence and Piazza San Marco in Venice...hope you enjoy your trip


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

Officially our Nat Geo trip to SE Asia only had 1 guide, Jessica, that stayed with us through the whole trip and there were 16 of us and that was a full trip. We had 3 local guides, one for each country that we picked up in each country but they met us and left us at the airports, once there, it was Jessica who got us through the airports.


----------



## BluesTraveler

I've never found a board similar to this for Tauck or other travel companies.  However, there is a "Tauck Bridges Family Travel" group on Facebook that I discovered.  It doesn't appear to be very active, but for those of you who have questions about specific trips, that may be a good resource.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

CrazyZeus1 said:


> Also since we are talking OTHER OUTFITTERS:   Has anyone looked into companies that do Antarctica?  After 2019, that will be our last continent to set foot on so of course, I'm making my people brave the Drake Passage! I want my then-17-year-old to say he's been to every continent  <3   I'm excited to see Tauk has trips there because they're trusted, has anyone else looked into any others?



I am going with Abercrombie & Kent to Antarctica in December, 2017.  We chose them for a few reasons: i) their timing worked with my daughter's school schedule, ii) their customer service is beyond amazing iii) there are around quite a few teenagers around the same age as my daughter on the trip iv) this is a "bucket list" trip for me and I am very excited to explore our seventh continent! v) this is silly, but they already sent the NICEST bound booklet with all the details we need for the trip (i.e. visa requirements, passport info {valid for 6 months after return}, shots, etc) with some gorgeous pictures.

I'm VERY impressed with A&K so far.  I can certainly see using them again -- actually I was wishing we had booked Iceland with them, but I digress.

I will post a detailed review on the trip when we return in January, 2018.

A quick note -- we booked the trip in Feb. or March for December, 2017.  I had a cabin on hold for 2 weeks (yeah, they let me hold it for waaaay more than the 3 days they were supposed to) - when I called to put down my deposit the trip was sold out.


----------



## Calfan

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I am going with Abercrombie & Kent to Antarctica in December, 2017.  We chose them for a few reasons: i) their timing worked with my daughter's school schedule, ii) their customer service is beyond amazing iii) there are around quite a few teenagers around the same age as my daughter on the trip iv) this is a "bucket list" trip for me and I am very excited to explore our seventh continent! v) this is silly, but they already sent the NICEST bound booklet with all the details we need for the trip (i.e. visa requirements, passport info {valid for 6 months after return}, shots, etc) with some gorgeous pictures.
> 
> I'm VERY impressed with A&K so far.  I can certainly see using them again -- actually I was wishing we had booked Iceland with them, but I digress.
> 
> I will post a detailed review on the trip when we return in January, 2018.
> 
> A quick note -- we booked the trip in Feb. or March for December, 2017.  I had a cabin on hold for 2 weeks (yeah, they let me hold it for waaaay more than the 3 days they were supposed to) - when I called to put down my deposit the trip was sold out.



I'll be very interested to read your A&K review.  We are planning on Tanzania for 2019, and will likely be deciding between Thomson and NatGeo, but A&K also has some great-sounding Africa trips.  Would be curious on your evaluation of whether the A&K premium is "worth it."  Love what you've seen so far regarding their customer service and pre-trip communications.


----------



## tink1970

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I will post a detailed review on the trip when we return in January, 2018.



Looking forward to it! I really like some of their itineraries AND appreciate that they will drop the price for people who have paid already.


----------



## EllinK

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I'm VERY impressed with A&K so far. I can certainly see using them again -- actually I was wishing we had booked Iceland with them, but I digress.



I loved the A&K itinerary -- I looked at it before ABD came out with their trip so not sure how they compare -- but we decided to DIY Iceland. Wasn't quite ready to pull the trigger on group travel. We did for next year, though, with the Grand Cyn ABD.


----------



## kmc33

EllinK said:


> I loved the A&K itinerary -- I looked at it before ABD came out with their trip so not sure how they compare -- but we decided to DIY Iceland. Wasn't quite ready to pull the trigger on group travel. We did for next year, though, with the Grand Cyn ABD.


I think Iceland is a great DIY trip!  We did a stopover for a few days in Iceland flying back from Copenhagen after a Norway cruise.  We enjoyed Iceland so much and the people were so friendly and welcoming that we plan to return and do it on our own.


----------



## acndis

kmc33 said:


> I think Iceland is a great DIY trip!  We did a stopover for a few days in Iceland flying back from Copenhagen after a Norway cruise.  We enjoyed Iceland so much and the people were so friendly and welcoming that we plan to return and do it on our own.


I would love to hear about DIY Iceland.  That sounds really appealing.  On a completely different note, has anyone looked at S. Africa Itineraries from other companies.  I was so bummed about the ABD price that I have been shopping around.  Austin Adventures looks AMAZING!  It is also expensive but seems to include more and is a bit longer.  I also looked at Thomson which looked wonderful also.  A&K does not seem to do S. Africa.  

I also got REALLY sucked in by Thomson's Brazil.  That looked AMAZING!


----------



## carpenta

kmc33 said:


> I think Iceland is a great DIY trip!  We did a stopover for a few days in Iceland flying back from Copenhagen after a Norway cruise.  We enjoyed Iceland so much and the people were so friendly and welcoming that we plan to return and do it on our own.



 We leave in 2 weeks for Iceland with NatGeo family trip. 21 total travelers with 9 of them being 16 yrs.old and younger. Leaving early to get an extra day on our own. Will report back upon our return.


----------



## AdamEfimoff

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I'm going on my own in June.  I can let you know how it goes when we get back.  I researched all the parks in excruciating detail and made the decision about where I wanted to go.  Then I had to work that in with my travel from Amsterdam (which flight would work best).
> 
> I am staying at 2 Singita lodges (Ebony and Lebombo).  From Ebony we are flying via Nelspruit to Cape Town for 4 days.  There we have 4 nights and 3 days -- 2 of the days we have private guides booked (one day wine country and the other a coastal tour) and the the third day I booked a private walk with cheetah cubs at a cheetah rescue sanctuary just outside of Cape Town.  Then we will tour some of the markets.
> 
> From Cape Town we are flying to Livingstone via Jo'Burg to see Victoria Falls.  We will stay at the Tongabezi Lodge for 3 nights.  During our time there we will take a helicopter flight over the falls, go on a Zambezi River Cruise and experience an authentic BOMA dinner.
> 
> I am so happy that I booked on our own.  We will be coming from the ABD Rhine River Cruise and that is enough time with a group for me.  My teenage daughter is not excited that we won't be with other families in S. Africa but I really, really wanted to experience Kruger NP.  Plus Singita is supposed to be quite luxurious and that really appealed to me.  Also Victoria Falls is a must for me -- if I'm going all the way to S. Africa then I'm going to make the effort to get to Zambia to see the falls.
> 
> Singita has some excellent promos if you travel in off season.  We got 1 night free (stay 7 nights and pay for 6) and our internal flight between the 2 lodges was free as well.  Also since my daughter is under 16 she was half price.  So that made it more affordable for us.  Singita is located in the highly-regarded Sabi Sands game reserve and I believe has the largest traversing rights in Kruger.  If not the largest, then right up there.
> 
> Our trip is costing significantly more than ABD, but some of that is attributed to our extra time in Livingstone.  I just as easily could've booked a tour that was half the cost of ABD.  It just depends on your travel preferences and budget.
> 
> The agent at Singita ended up booking everything for us, including Cape Town and Livingstone and all of our internal flights.  She is excellent.
> 
> 
> Planning the trip was exhausting as I researched for a very long time to get everything just right.  My current plan is to go to Tanzania in June, 2018 and we will do a private tour.  I definitely want to see the great migration and the only way to be guaranteed that is to book a stay with a mobile camp.  The mobile lodges are too small to accommodate tour groups.  But my plans are fluid until I have paid a deposit!
> 
> Good luck with your planning!



So next year you are going?


----------



## cadien

Has anyone tried the Rick Steves _Family Europe_ tours? 13 or 14 days depending on itinerary. We've had one penciled in for when DS is old enough for a few years now.


----------



## disneyphx

For anyone who is interested, Tauck Bridges has their 2018 itineraries posted


----------



## sayhello

carpenta said:


> We leave in 2 weeks for Iceland with NatGeo family trip. 21 total travelers with 9 of them being 16 yrs.old and younger. Leaving early to get an extra day on our own. Will report back upon our return.


ENJOY!!  Looking forward to your report!

Sayhello


----------



## Stinkerbell1973

Ava said:


> Has anyone here been on a Rick Steves tour? I used to love his TV show on PBS and only recently discovered that he has a tour company as well. They are budget tours (older non-chain hotels, you carry your own luggage, etc.) and they only have a couple of family tours, but it seems like an interesting option at a lower price point than ABD & many of the other companies mentioned here.



Realizing you posted this a while back and you may no longer be interested, I wanted to let you know that my family just returned from our first Rick Steves tour. To give you some context, we originally were going to book the ABD Rhine River cruise.....then it morphed into a Northern Europe DCL itinerary due to price.....but as we began looking at the itineraries and prioritizing our bucket list, I began searching for guided tours of Germany and Switzerland and the Rick Steves website was the second listing on my Google search.
We did the Germany, Switzerland and Austria itinerary. And it was PHENOMENAL. Every experience we had was jaw dropping amazing and I'm so very thankful that we booked it.
Our guide was a native of Berlin. His English was perfect. He is very well educated and really brought life into the places we saw. His knowledge of all the places we went, the history of Germany, the volatile microclimates of the Swiss Alps was unmatched. It was almost like the could predict exactly what the weather was going to do and advised us accordingly. He was just awesome. Our bus driver was very professional, warm and funny. He definitely added to our overall experience as well.
You mentioned the smaller hotels and carrying your own luggage. That's all true. Part of the charm of the RS tours is that he puts you in the smaller, family run hotels and it's for great cause. On his tours, you stay in the heart of the city and activity. You're close enough to walk to the sights, shops, restaurants. You don't stay on the outskirts of town and have to take a cab/Uber to get back. Yes, you may have to drag your suitcase a few blocks, up a couple of cobblestone hills and possibly up a few flights of stairs, but if you follow his philosophies for traveling light (and trust me....this was a serious struggle for me, but I was determined and I managed three weeks in Europe with a carry on and a backpack) it is so worth it! Only one time on our trip did I have to carry my luggage up a flight of stairs due to no lift/elevator. Some times I chose to do it just because I was impatient and didn't want to wait for the lift.
Don't be put off by the smaller, family run hotels. They were quite charming and some of them really enhanced our experience (Google "Seehotel Gruener Baum" in Hallstatt, Austria...."Hotel Jungfrau" in Murren, Switzerland...."Hotel Heliopark Bad zum Hirsch" in Baden-Baden, Germany). A few of the places we stayed were quite elegant despite being small.  Also, these tours have smaller groups - max size is 28 people. Another awesome detail.
Also, while they specify a couple of their tours as "family" tours, kids are welcome on all tours.  That said, when I called their offices to confirm that my 12 year old would be ok on the tour we picked - which is not one of the family tours - the response was "absolutely". She had a fantastic experience as well.
Overall it was an amazing experience and we will definitely book another trip (already researching, will likely be Ireland next May). Obviously, I HIGHLY recommend booking a Rick Steves tour. Good luck!!


----------



## aggiedog

What really put my dh off for those trips was the mention that you might have to share bathrooms, i.e. use the one down the hall sort of setup.  He would not even entertain that idea.

My friend and his wife did their 25 year anniversary trip to London and rave about how good a trip it was.  I only found out much later it was a Rick Steves tour, but I haven't had a chance to really get details from them. I'm glad to know that all trips are basically family friendly.


----------



## kmc33

Stinkerbell1973 said:


> Also, these tours have smaller groups - max size is 28 people. Another awesome detail.
> Also, while they specify a couple of their tours as "family" tours, kids are welcome on all tours. That said, when I called their offices to confirm that my 12 year old would be ok on the tour we picked - which is not one of the family tours - the response was "absolutely". She had a fantastic experience as well.


I am very intrigued about your trip.  I like the idea of staying in the family run hotels.  Also, I am interested to learn more about the make-up of the tour group.  It looks like your tour was considered an "active" tour, so I would guess this type would skew younger than a less active tour itinerary.



aggiedog said:


> What really put my dh off for those trips was the mention that you might have to share bathrooms, i.e. use the one down the hall sort of setup.  He would not even entertain that idea.


My DH would not like this either.  He would be okay with carrying his luggage, but not having an en-suite bathroom would be a deal breaker.  I noticed that some of the hotels may have weak or no a/c, as is not unusual in Europe.  Because we can only travel in the summer right now, that could be a deal breaker for DH unless we picked a more northern itinerary!

Thank you for your post!  I realize it is a different type of tour from ABD, so it is great to get feedback from someone who has done one... and planning another!!


----------



## cadien

My DH really has a thing against luxury hotels (luxury anything, really) and it's one major reason I'm having trouble selling him on ABD. I can take or leave 4- or 5-star myself, and am perfectly happy in hostels, but I'm really in love with the China itinerary.


----------



## sayhello

cadien said:


> My DH really has a thing against luxury hotels (luxury anything, really) and it's one major reason I'm having trouble selling him on ABD. I can take or leave 4- or 5-star myself, and am perfectly happy in hostels, but I'm really in love with the China itinerary.


The China itinerary is seriously fabulous (just got back this week) but you *would* have to "suffer" with some pretty luxurious hotels... 

Sayhello


----------



## RebelHawk

sayhello said:


> The China itinerary is seriously fabulous (just got back this week) but you *would* have to "suffer" with some pretty luxurious hotels...
> 
> Sayhello




And we can't wait to read a trip report!


----------



## Stinkerbell1973

kmc33 said:


> I am very intrigued about your trip.  I like the idea of staying in the family run hotels.  Also, I am interested to learn more about the make-up of the tour group.  It looks like your tour was considered an "active" tour, so I would guess this type would skew younger than a less active tour itinerary.
> 
> My DH would not like this either.  He would be okay with carrying his luggage, but not having an en-suite bathroom would be a deal breaker.  I noticed that some of the hotels may have weak or no a/c, as is not unusual in Europe.  Because we can only travel in the summer right now, that could be a deal breaker for DH unless we picked a more northern itinerary!
> 
> I'm happy to answer any questions you have!
> On the RS website, the itinerary we picked is labeled as one of their most active. And it DEFINITELY was! My hubby monitored our activity via his Google Maps app and it shows we walked 56 miles over the course of the 14 days of the tour. As for the makeup of our tour group.....my daughter was the youngest. The next oldest couple was in their mid 20's (on their honeymoon), then a couple in their late 20's, 4 singles and hubby and me in our 40's, 2 couples in their 50's and the rest were retired. Very diverse group. We all gelled so well and we were joking & half serious about how to all book another tour together.
> 
> Every one of our hotels had en-suite bathrooms. I've read too that some of the RS tours/hotels share the hall bathroom....and I can check with some of my tourmates who have done previous tours to see what they've encountered if that will help you.
> 
> As for the A/C......yep, the only hotel we stayed in that had it was in our last city (Vienna). We had fans in all of our other rooms and it worked out great. I honestly thought the lack of A/C would be a deal breaker for my hubby as well, and that's why we went in late May/early June - as soon as our daughter got out of school. That said, it was unseasonably warm at the beginning of our trip (daytime highs in the low/mid 90's) but at night, it was in the 60's and with a fan it was actually very nice/comfortable.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Stinkerbell1973 said:


> Realizing you posted this a while back and you may no longer be interested, I wanted to let you know that my family just returned from our first Rick Steves tour. To give you some context, we originally were going to book the ABD Rhine River cruise.....then it morphed into a Northern Europe DCL itinerary due to price.....but as we began looking at the itineraries and prioritizing our bucket list, I began searching for guided tours of Germany and Switzerland and the Rick Steves website was the second listing on my Google search.
> We did the Germany, Switzerland and Austria itinerary. And it was PHENOMENAL. Every experience we had was jaw dropping amazing and I'm so very thankful that we booked it.
> Our guide was a native of Berlin. His English was perfect. He is very well educated and really brought life into the places we saw. His knowledge of all the places we went, the history of Germany, the volatile microclimates of the Swiss Alps was unmatched. It was almost like the could predict exactly what the weather was going to do and advised us accordingly. He was just awesome. Our bus driver was very professional, warm and funny. He definitely added to our overall experience as well.
> You mentioned the smaller hotels and carrying your own luggage. That's all true. Part of the charm of the RS tours is that he puts you in the smaller, family run hotels and it's for great cause. On his tours, you stay in the heart of the city and activity. You're close enough to walk to the sights, shops, restaurants. You don't stay on the outskirts of town and have to take a cab/Uber to get back. Yes, you may have to drag your suitcase a few blocks, up a couple of cobblestone hills and possibly up a few flights of stairs, but if you follow his philosophies for traveling light (and trust me....this was a serious struggle for me, but I was determined and I managed three weeks in Europe with a carry on and a backpack) it is so worth it! Only one time on our trip did I have to carry my luggage up a flight of stairs due to no lift/elevator. Some times I chose to do it just because I was impatient and didn't want to wait for the lift.
> Don't be put off by the smaller, family run hotels. They were quite charming and some of them really enhanced our experience (Google "Seehotel Gruener Baum" in Hallstatt, Austria...."Hotel Jungfrau" in Murren, Switzerland...."Hotel Heliopark Bad zum Hirsch" in Baden-Baden, Germany). A few of the places we stayed were quite elegant despite being small.  Also, these tours have smaller groups - max size is 28 people. Another awesome detail.
> Also, while they specify a couple of their tours as "family" tours, kids are welcome on all tours.  That said, when I called their offices to confirm that my 12 year old would be ok on the tour we picked - which is not one of the family tours - the response was "absolutely". She had a fantastic experience as well.
> Overall it was an amazing experience and we will definitely book another trip (already researching, will likely be Ireland next May). Obviously, I HIGHLY recommend booking a Rick Steves tour. Good luck!!


Thanks so much for the great post! I've never looked into Rick Steves's tours, but this sounds really wonderful. Love having more options! I really enjoy small hotels as well, although admit I do like my luxury hotels


----------



## kmc33

Stinkerbell1973 said:


> Every one of our hotels had en-suite bathrooms. I've read too that some of the RS tours/hotels share the hall bathroom....and I can check with some of my tourmates who have done previous tours to see what they've encountered if that will help you.


If you get any feedback, that would be great. It is not urgent.  We are not planning 2018 quite yet.  If I get to that point, I think perhaps RS tours could provide feedback regarding particular itineraries; perhaps hall bathrooms are more prevalent on certain itineraries.  Thank you again for the information and your help!


----------



## tink1970

@Stinkerbell1973 thanks so much for posting! I've seen so many RS tours that look wonderful but my mantra is "I've never regretted overpacking" so don't think his is the company for me! Would love to hear all about your next trip with him, however


----------



## Ava

Stinkerbell1973 said:


> Realizing you posted this a while back and you may no longer be interested, I wanted to let you know that my family just returned from our first Rick Steves tour. To give you some context, we originally were going to book the ABD Rhine River cruise.....then it morphed into a Northern Europe DCL itinerary due to price.....but as we began looking at the itineraries and prioritizing our bucket list, I began searching for guided tours of Germany and Switzerland and the Rick Steves website was the second listing on my Google search.
> We did the Germany, Switzerland and Austria itinerary. And it was PHENOMENAL. Every experience we had was jaw dropping amazing and I'm so very thankful that we booked it.
> Our guide was a native of Berlin. His English was perfect. He is very well educated and really brought life into the places we saw. His knowledge of all the places we went, the history of Germany, the volatile microclimates of the Swiss Alps was unmatched. It was almost like the could predict exactly what the weather was going to do and advised us accordingly. He was just awesome. Our bus driver was very professional, warm and funny. He definitely added to our overall experience as well.
> You mentioned the smaller hotels and carrying your own luggage. That's all true. Part of the charm of the RS tours is that he puts you in the smaller, family run hotels and it's for great cause. On his tours, you stay in the heart of the city and activity. You're close enough to walk to the sights, shops, restaurants. You don't stay on the outskirts of town and have to take a cab/Uber to get back. Yes, you may have to drag your suitcase a few blocks, up a couple of cobblestone hills and possibly up a few flights of stairs, but if you follow his philosophies for traveling light (and trust me....this was a serious struggle for me, but I was determined and I managed three weeks in Europe with a carry on and a backpack) it is so worth it! Only one time on our trip did I have to carry my luggage up a flight of stairs due to no lift/elevator. Some times I chose to do it just because I was impatient and didn't want to wait for the lift.
> Don't be put off by the smaller, family run hotels. They were quite charming and some of them really enhanced our experience (Google "Seehotel Gruener Baum" in Hallstatt, Austria...."Hotel Jungfrau" in Murren, Switzerland...."Hotel Heliopark Bad zum Hirsch" in Baden-Baden, Germany). A few of the places we stayed were quite elegant despite being small.  Also, these tours have smaller groups - max size is 28 people. Another awesome detail.
> Also, while they specify a couple of their tours as "family" tours, kids are welcome on all tours.  That said, when I called their offices to confirm that my 12 year old would be ok on the tour we picked - which is not one of the family tours - the response was "absolutely". She had a fantastic experience as well.
> Overall it was an amazing experience and we will definitely book another trip (already researching, will likely be Ireland next May). Obviously, I HIGHLY recommend booking a Rick Steves tour. Good luck!!


Thank you for the info/review! My youngest is still too young for most group tours (she turned 4 in May) but researching trips we may or may not take one day is kind of a hobby for me, lol. The RS website says kids 8+ are welcome on family tours & "My Way" unguided tours, and teens are welcome on all tours. I guess they consider 12 close enough to teen. I'm glad she enjoyed it even though she was the only child in the group! 

The smaller, family-run hotels are actually a pro to me, I just called it out as a point of difference from a lot of the other tour operators that are discussed here. I'd rather be in an older hotel that's within walking distance of the sights or allows easy access to public transportation. Even the potential for no A/C and the bathroom down the hall doesn't bother me. I stayed in several such places in Europe & NYC when I was younger. I would want an en suite bathroom if I were traveling with my kids, but for me as an adult it's not a deal breaker if I don't have one. I also think older buildings (in Europe & the US) are designed to stay comfortable without cooling - windows & doors positioned to allow for cross breezes, high ceilings, etc. - so the no A/C isn't as bad as it sounds to Americans who are used to modern buildings with central air.

Have you looked through the country-by-country itineraries on his site? I've probably read most of them at this point, which is not helping my list of places I want to visit get any shorter!


----------



## AquamarineSteph

Thanks for the review!  We are doing a Rick Steves tour later this year.  I understand having to schlep my own bag as we had to do that on our G Adventures/National Geographic tour.  I quickly learned why I should pack light, but I'm so glad to hear you had a good time.

We're visiting Sicily which I haven't seen done on ABD properly.  Your review makes me that much more excited.  Fingers crossed!


----------



## Bobo912

Thanks for the post Stinkerbell.  I'm considering the RS Scandinavia tour for 2018.  My son is graduating from high school next year and I'll give him the opportunity to make the final selection, but he'll probably just tell me to choose anyway like he always does.  I've read several reviews that compare RS with other tours that the reviewer has taken and they comment that they were more immersed in the local culture and got to meet more locals with RS than with other companies and that appeals to me.  The smaller group is a big plus too.  

AquamarineSteph, I would love to hear your impression when you return.


----------



## NashSmartGuy

I have been to Botswana, South Africa, and Zambia.  I would not go on my own.  I did an organized tour package with Alexander and Roberts.  We stayed in very high end accommodations, and it was the best vacation of my life.  I have also done the ABD China trip in 2015, and I would say that ABD does a better job with the added "magic" of Disney, but with Alexander and Roberts you're guaranteed not to have more than 16 people in your tour.  I was fortunate to have only eight people on my ABD China trip, but that was a fluke.  I really prefer small group experiences.  It makes it so much easier to get around and adds flexibility.  I am taking ABD to Peru this year, and I've booked Hollywood/Disneyland for next year, so I definitely like the ABD experience.  I'm just not sure if ABD is right for every destination.


----------



## tink1970

There are several RS trip itineraries I'd love to go on...unfortunately schlepping isn't an option so I'll just have to read your reports and live vicariously (DH has limited my purse size since my bursitis is so bad...my current one is so small it fits iphone, tiny wallet and bent sunglasses-that's it). Since he's an orthopedic surgeon he kind of knows what he's talking about so I just read the website and sigh...ah well... first world problems for sure. Can't wait to hear about everyone's trips with RS! Small family run places, immersion in the culture--all sound great


----------



## sayhello

NashSmartGuy said:


> I have been to Botswana, South Africa, and Zambia.  I would not go on my own.  I did an organized tour package with Alexander and Roberts.  We stayed in very high end accommodations, and it was the best vacation of my life.  I have also done the ABD China trip in 2015, and I would say that ABD does a better job with the added "magic" of Disney, but with Alexander and Roberts you're guaranteed not to have more than 16 people in your tour.  I was fortunate to have only eight people on my ABD China trip, but that was a fluke.  I really prefer small group experiences.  It makes it so much easier to get around and adds flexibility.  I am taking ABD to Peru this year, and I've booked Hollywood/Disneyland for next year, so I definitely like the ABD experience.  I'm just not sure if ABD is right for every destination.


Thanks!!  I've never heard of Alexander and Roberts.  They have some North America trips that look really intriguing to me.  Not a lot of companies offer trips like that in North America.

Sayhello


----------



## Calfan

NashSmartGuy said:


> I have been to Botswana, South Africa, and Zambia.  I would not go on my own.  I did an organized tour package with Alexander and Roberts.  We stayed in very high end accommodations, and it was the best vacation of my life.  I have also done the ABD China trip in 2015, and I would say that ABD does a better job with the added "magic" of Disney, but with Alexander and Roberts you're guaranteed not to have more than 16 people in your tour.  I was fortunate to have only eight people on my ABD China trip, but that was a fluke.  I really prefer small group experiences.  It makes it so much easier to get around and adds flexibility.  I am taking ABD to Peru this year, and I've booked Hollywood/Disneyland for next year, so I definitely like the ABD experience.  I'm just not sure if ABD is right for every destination.



I traveled to Zambia and Zimbabwe in 2001, and it still ranks as my favorite vacation out of all I have done.  Totally agree with you that it makes sense to pick the tour operator based on the destination.  We have also booked the Southern California ABD for next year since, obviously, that is a trip that cannot be matched by another tour company, and it's one we really want to do.  But we much prefer the smaller group experience, so that could be one of our last ABDs.  We did China with Thomson Family Adventures last year.  It is a very similar itinerary to ABD, and we had 10 in our group, which was fantastic.  Also one of my top-5 favorite all-time trips.  We've got Peru booked with NatGeo for 2018 and have a deposit down with Thomson for Japan in 2020, since they guaranteed us 2017 pricing by booking now (and the deposit is fully refundable for any reason).


----------



## Ava

AquamarineSteph said:


> Thanks for the review!  We are doing a Rick Steves tour later this year.  I understand having to schlep my own bag as we had to do that on our G Adventures/National Geographic tour.  I quickly learned why I should pack light, but I'm so glad to hear you had a good time.
> 
> We're visiting Sicily which I haven't seen done on ABD properly.  Your review makes me that much more excited.  Fingers crossed!


I would love to hear about your RS tour to Sicily when you return. My maternal grandfather was Sicilian, so it's pretty high up on my "bucket list" and I haven't come across very many tour companies that go there.



sayhello said:


> Thanks!!  I've never heard of Alexander and Roberts.  They have some North America trips that look really intriguing to me.  Not a lot of companies offer trips like that in North America.


I had never heard of them either, but now I have another company to look up! I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing, lol.


----------



## AdamEfimoff

I would not use abd for South Africa.


----------



## AquamarineSteph

AdamEfimoff said:


> I would not use abd for South Africa.



Curious - why not?


EDIT TO ADD - I will definitely post my impressions here from the RS Sicily tour!


----------



## AdamEfimoff

Cannot mention other companies on site.


----------



## Calfan

AdamEfimoff said:


> Cannot mention other companies on site.



Wasn't this thread set up to talk about other companies?


----------



## aggiedog

I think you can't mention specific TA's, but companies are ok?

Confirmed with my friend - he and wife did the London trip and he was thoroughly impressed.  Nice hotel in a very nice area of London.  No shared bathrooms, lol.  He wouldn't hesitate to do another RS tour.  He did say that they were specific about no kids allowed on this trip.  Maybe they do adult only tours as well?


----------



## Bobo912

aggiedog said:


> I think you can't mention specific TA's, but companies are ok?
> 
> Confirmed with my friend - he and wife did the London trip and he was thoroughly impressed.  Nice hotel in a very nice area of London.  No shared bathrooms, lol.  He wouldn't hesitate to do another RS tour.  He did say that they were specific about no kids allowed on this trip.  Maybe they do adult only tours as well?



From the RS website:

_Teens are welcome on all Rick Steves tours. Kids 8 and older are welcome on our Family Europe tours and My Way® vacation packages. Tour members under 18 must room with a parent or guardian._


----------



## sayhello

AdamEfimoff said:


> Cannot mention other companies on site.


That is absolutely incorrect.  We can talk about other tour companies in this thread.  We just aren't supposed to talk about other Travel Agencies.

Sayhello


----------



## Ava

aggiedog said:


> Confirmed with my friend - he and wife did the London trip and he was thoroughly impressed.  Nice hotel in a very nice area of London.  No shared bathrooms, lol.  He wouldn't hesitate to do another RS tour.  He did say that they were specific about no kids allowed on this trip.  Maybe they do adult only tours as well?





Bobo912 said:


> From the RS website:
> 
> _Teens are welcome on all Rick Steves tours. Kids 8 and older are welcome on our Family Europe tours and My Way® vacation packages. Tour members under 18 must room with a parent or guardian._



Hmm. @Stinkerbell1973's 12-year-old was allowed on their Germany/Austria/Switzerland tour, so either they consider 12 to be a "teen" or they're more flexible with some itineraries than others.


----------



## Stinkerbell1973

tink1970 said:


> @Stinkerbell1973 thanks so much for posting! I've seen so many RS tours that look wonderful but my mantra is "I've never regretted overpacking" so don't think his is the company for me! Would love to hear all about your next trip with him, however



I've always thought the same way! On our first family trip to Europe in 2014, which was a DCL Mediterranean cruise, I carried a 28 inch suitcase and a 21 inch carry on and each bag was filled to the gills. We are also a camping family so when you travel via RV, you don't have to worry about overpacking, you take what you want and as much as your RV can store (which could be my whole warerobe, lol).
I did really struggle with how to pack appropriately for this trip knowing I'd be carrying my own suitcase. I packed, unpacked and repacked five times the Sunday before we left and by the end of the day, thought I was good to go. Well then Mother Nature had her say....the forecast changed drastically (much warmer temps) so I had to rethink pants to capris and shorts, and less long sleeve shirts. So an hour before I left to go to the airport I unpacked and repacked for the final time.
And now that I've done it, I can't imagine going back to taking so much stuff with me on these trips. I packed mostly solid colored shirts and took a couple of sweaters and scarves to mix it up a bit. When you're changing hotels every 2-3 nights for two weeks, you get tired easily of unpacking and repacking. I'll take a lesson from some of my tourmates and better utilize packing cubes next time to sort things by day, that way I'm only unpacking a cube versus everything!


----------



## Stinkerbell1973

Ava said:


> Thank you for the info/review! My youngest is still too young for most group tours (she turned 4 in May) but researching trips we may or may not take one day is kind of a hobby for me, lol. The RS website says kids 8+ are welcome on family tours & "My Way" unguided tours, and teens are welcome on all tours. I guess they consider 12 close enough to teen. I'm glad she enjoyed it even though she was the only child in the group!
> 
> The smaller, family-run hotels are actually a pro to me, I just called it out as a point of difference from a lot of the other tour operators that are discussed here. I'd rather be in an older hotel that's within walking distance of the sights or allows easy access to public transportation. Even the potential for no A/C and the bathroom down the hall doesn't bother me. I stayed in several such places in Europe & NYC when I was younger. I would want an en suite bathroom if I were traveling with my kids, but for me as an adult it's not a deal breaker if I don't have one. I also think older buildings (in Europe & the US) are designed to stay comfortable without cooling - windows & doors positioned to allow for cross breezes, high ceilings, etc. - so the no A/C isn't as bad as it sounds to Americans who are used to modern buildings with central air.
> 
> Have you looked through the country-by-country itineraries on his site? I've probably read most of them at this point, which is not helping my list of places I want to visit get any shorter!



My hubby MUCH prefers the smaller hotels to the ones considered "luxury". But he also prefers the smaller villages (Bacharach, Germany....Murren, Switzerland) to the big cities (Munich, Vienna). I actually agree with him though and that was solidified after this trip.

And yep, I've spent a lot of time looking over his other tours and trying to decide which is next for 2018 and which will be our 20th anniversary celebration in 2019. Next year looks like Ireland...the year after, I'm considering either Southern Italy or France.


----------



## Stinkerbell1973

AquamarineSteph said:


> Thanks for the review!  We are doing a Rick Steves tour later this year.  I understand having to schlep my own bag as we had to do that on our G Adventures/National Geographic tour.  I quickly learned why I should pack light, but I'm so glad to hear you had a good time.
> 
> We're visiting Sicily which I haven't seen done on ABD properly.  Your review makes me that much more excited.  Fingers crossed!




Oh cool! Glad I could help you get more excited. Reading reviews certainly helped with mine so I get it!

I'm very intrigued by your trip to Sicily as I'm eyeballing that one for next year. I've heard it's pretty strenuous...which is ok, but dang....I like feeling like I have had a vacation when I get back. LOL
Can't wait to hear about it!!


----------



## Stinkerbell1973

aggiedog said:


> I think you can't mention specific TA's, but companies are ok?
> 
> Confirmed with my friend - he and wife did the London trip and he was thoroughly impressed.  Nice hotel in a very nice area of London.  No shared bathrooms, lol.  He wouldn't hesitate to do another RS tour.  He did say that they were specific about no kids allowed on this trip.  Maybe they do adult only tours as well?




Hmmm......I was told by the RS company that teens are allowed (and was specifically told that this was the recommended age, not necessarily a mandate) on ALL Rick Steves tours. I have the email from them stating this. Not that I'm trying to pick an argument saying your friend was wrong...
On our tour, I was talking to one of our tourmates and she mentioned that on her RS tour last year, one of her tourmates was a lady in her late 40's with her two daughters, who were in their early 20's. She said that an older, retired gentleman on the tour wasted no time on the first night saying that these tours are built for people over 45 and that no one younger than that should be on any of the RS tours. She politely informed him that he was incorrect and that if he only wanted to tour with people his age, surely there were companies out there that cater to that and perhaps he should find one. I've also seen a couple of similar sentiments on other websites where his tours are discussed (TripAdvisor, etc). Some people don't want kids on their trips. That was a MAJOR concern for me, especially when I learned that she was the only kid. But our tour group, who was just awesome in general, could not have been any kinder to her. Most of them sought her out to talk about her day, her likes, etc. In every single photo of the whole group, she's nowhere near my hubby and me, because someone would always pull her to them. 
One other thing the RS offices told me is that obviously during most of the year, kids don't go on the tours because of school schedules. Where I live, we got out of school the Friday before Memorial Day and most other schools were still in session at that time....our tour began on May 30 so it didn't necessarily surprise me that no other kids were with us. 
The RS offices had no issues with my 12 year old being booked on our trip. The lady I conversed with actually encouraged it.


----------



## Stinkerbell1973

Bobo912 said:


> From the RS website:
> 
> _Teens are welcome on all Rick Steves tours. Kids 8 and older are welcome on our Family Europe tours and My Way® vacation packages. Tour members under 18 must room with a parent or guardian._




They don't even restrict teens on their itineraries in the fall that have a focus on Oktoberfest.....


----------



## aggiedog

No offense taken, and I can't speak to what my friend heard vs understood.  It was an anniversary trip for them and they weren't planning on taking their kids, who would have been 12 and up at that time, so they weren't looking for confirmation of availability.

I'm going to keep the RS on my list of potential trips.  I don't need luxury, but I do get tired of being the sole travel organizer in our house.  I want someone else to do it occasionally.


----------



## Bobo912

Ava said:


> Hmm. @Stinkerbell1973's 12-year-old was allowed on their Germany/Austria/Switzerland tour, so either they consider 12 to be a "teen" or they're more flexible with some itineraries than others.



Maybe 12 is close enough.  If ABD can charge adult price for a 12 year-old, I guess considering a 12 year old a teen isn't much of a stretch.   And they did word it as "are welcome" which doesn't sound exactly like a hard and fast rule.  BTW...on their family trips a guest is considered a child up to age 17 (Nat Geo is the same).  For Tauck a child is considered 12 and under for US trips and 11 and under for international trips, which seems odd to me, but there's probably some logic behind it that is beyond my understanding of the travel industry.


----------



## Bobo912

Stinkerbell1973 said:


> Hmmm......I was told by the RS company that teens are allowed (and was specifically told that this was the recommended age, not necessarily a mandate) on ALL Rick Steves tours. I have the email from them stating this. Not that I'm trying to pick an argument saying your friend was wrong...
> On our tour, I was talking to one of our tourmates and she mentioned that on her RS tour last year, one of her tourmates was a lady in her late 40's with her two daughters, who were in their early 20's. She said that an older, retired gentleman on the tour wasted no time on the first night saying that these tours are built for people over 45 and that no one younger than that should be on any of the RS tours. She politely informed him that he was incorrect and that if he only wanted to tour with people his age, surely there were companies out there that cater to that and perhaps he should find one. I've also seen a couple of similar sentiments on other websites where his tours are discussed (TripAdvisor, etc). Some people don't want kids on their trips. That was a MAJOR concern for me, especially when I learned that she was the only kid. But our tour group, who was just awesome in general, could not have been any kinder to her. Most of them sought her out to talk about her day, her likes, etc. In every single photo of the whole group, she's nowhere near my hubby and me, because someone would always pull her to them.
> One other thing the RS offices told me is that obviously during most of the year, kids don't go on the tours because of school schedules. Where I live, we got out of school the Friday before Memorial Day and most other schools were still in session at that time....our tour began on May 30 so it didn't necessarily surprise me that no other kids were with us.
> The RS offices had no issues with my 12 year old being booked on our trip. The lady I conversed with actually encouraged it.



It's unfortunate that anyone would react that way, but I suppose there can be a curmudgeon on any tour.  I can understand if the trip was promoted as adult only, but that is clearly not the case.  Guess he should have done his homework. But for goodness sake, 20 isn't even a child!  We happened to cross paths with a family (grandparents, parents and 3 granddaughters) on both of our Tauck Bridges tours.  The grandparents had also taken the granddaughters on several regular Tauck trips, which skew toward an older clientele (really old in some cases ), and they told me everybody showered attention on the kids and seemed to love having them there.  I hope your (and their) experience is typical, and the grouch is the exception.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

Calfan said:


> Wasn't this thread set up to talk about other companies?



That's exactly why this thread was started. So we'd have a place to talk about companies OTHER than ABD. You just can't promote other Travel Agents/Agencies but you can talk about other operators like Nat Geo, Rick Steves, Tauck etc all you want on this thread.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

Stinkerbell1973 said:


> I've always thought the same way! On our first family trip to Europe in 2014, which was a DCL Mediterranean cruise, I carried a 28 inch suitcase and a 21 inch carry on and each bag was filled to the gills. We are also a camping family so when you travel via RV, you don't have to worry about overpacking, you take what you want and as much as your RV can store (which could be my whole warerobe, lol).
> I did really struggle with how to pack appropriately for this trip knowing I'd be carrying my own suitcase. I packed, unpacked and repacked five times the Sunday before we left and by the end of the day, thought I was good to go. Well then Mother Nature had her say....the forecast changed drastically (much warmer temps) so I had to rethink pants to capris and shorts, and less long sleeve shirts. So an hour before I left to go to the airport I unpacked and repacked for the final time.
> And now that I've done it, I can't imagine going back to taking so much stuff with me on these trips. I packed mostly solid colored shirts and took a couple of sweaters and scarves to mix it up a bit. When you're changing hotels every 2-3 nights for two weeks, you get tired easily of unpacking and repacking. I'll take a lesson from some of my tourmates and better utilize packing cubes next time to sort things by day, that way I'm only unpacking a cube versus everything!



Here's another tip, especially if you're on a longer trip like I was. Take a good look at the itinerary and if you can, see if you can find the website for your hotels. If you're going to be in one place for at least 2 nights and your hotel offers laundry service, USE IT! Yes it will cost you but trust me, it will save you in the packing department. We did this on our South East Asia trip with Nat Geo. I looked at our itinerary ahead of time and realized we'd have time when we hit Ha Noi and Luang Prabang to have the hotels do our laundry. The day we arrived, we gathered up all our clothes we'd worn to that point, got the laundry bag from the closet, tossed everything and filled in the form. Then before we headed down to breakfast the next morning we called housekeeping to let them know we needed laundry service and they sent someone by to pick it up. Our laundry was waiting for us in our room when we got back that night. We also turned our dirty clothes inside out so we could quickly tell the dirty from the clean in our suitcases since we were on the move every 2 to 3 days.


----------



## cadien

I spent a summer in college doing the typical Let's Go train pass and hotel trip through Europe. In addition to it just being a great experience and wonderful memories, I've always been grateful for it teaching me to pack lightly. That trick of turning the dirty clothes inside out had never occurred to me though. I love it!

That is one downside to cruises and tours, I guess. There *are *total strangers who will know that you're repeating outfits, despite hitting a new location every couple days. Oh well.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

cadien said:


> I spent a summer in college doing the typical Let's Go train pass and hotel trip through Europe. In addition to it just being a great experience and wonderful memories, I've always been grateful for it teaching me to pack lightly. That trick of turning the dirty clothes inside out had never occurred to me though. I love it!
> 
> That is one downside to cruises and tours, I guess. There *are *total strangers who will know that you're repeating outfits, despite hitting a new location every couple days. Oh well.



We had someone on our tour ask us how we managed to survive with so few clothes. We told them we did laundry the minute we hit Hanoi, which was about 5 (7 days for us) days into our 13 day (for us 15) day trip. It never occurred to them to do laundry.


----------



## Ava

Stinkerbell1973 said:


> And yep, I've spent a lot of time looking over his other tours and trying to decide which is next for 2018 and which will be our 20th anniversary celebration in 2019. Next year looks like Ireland...the year after, I'm considering either Southern Italy or France.


Oh, he has a lot more information than just the other tours to read through. From the main RS page, click on "Explore Europe." Choose a country on the side, click Plan, then Itinerary. He has recommendations for which cities/towns to visit based on the number of days you have, plus a recommended 3-week itinerary for exploring that country. Not to mention all the related articles, videos, etc. It's a wealth of information that will make you wish you could just drop everything & spend your life traveling.



Stinkerbell1973 said:


> Hmmm......I was told by the RS company that teens are allowed (and was specifically told that this was the recommended age, not necessarily a mandate) on ALL Rick Steves tours. I have the email from them stating this. Not that I'm trying to pick an argument saying your friend was wrong...
> On our tour, I was talking to one of our tourmates and she mentioned that on her RS tour last year, one of her tourmates was a lady in her late 40's with her two daughters, who were in their early 20's. She said that an older, retired gentleman on the tour wasted no time on the first night saying that these tours are built for people over 45 and that no one younger than that should be on any of the RS tours. She politely informed him that he was incorrect and that if he only wanted to tour with people his age, surely there were companies out there that cater to that and perhaps he should find one. I've also seen a couple of similar sentiments on other websites where his tours are discussed (TripAdvisor, etc). Some people don't want kids on their trips. That was a MAJOR concern for me, especially when I learned that she was the only kid. But our tour group, who was just awesome in general, could not have been any kinder to her. Most of them sought her out to talk about her day, her likes, etc. In every single photo of the whole group, she's nowhere near my hubby and me, because someone would always pull her to them.
> One other thing the RS offices told me is that obviously during most of the year, kids don't go on the tours because of school schedules. Where I live, we got out of school the Friday before Memorial Day and most other schools were still in session at that time....our tour began on May 30 so it didn't necessarily surprise me that no other kids were with us.
> The RS offices had no issues with my 12 year old being booked on our trip. The lady I conversed with actually encouraged it.


I'm glad you didn't have any curmudgeons like that on your trip! That gentleman should check out Road Scholar tours. My mom took a trip with them to New Orleans for Mardi Gras this year, and she was one of the youngest in the group. She's 66.


----------



## tink1970

Ava said:


> That gentleman should check out Road Scholar tours. My mom took a trip with them to New Orleans for Mardi Gras this year, and she was one of the youngest in the group. She's 66.




I'm a precocious curmudgeon---I've considered those tours and I'm not yet 50! Seriously, they DO look interesting


----------



## Ava

cadien said:


> I spent a summer in college doing the typical Let's Go train pass and hotel trip through Europe. In addition to it just being a great experience and wonderful memories, I've always been grateful for it teaching me to pack lightly. That trick of turning the dirty clothes inside out had never occurred to me though. I love it!


I did the same, 6 weeks backpacking & staying in hostels. Definitely taught me to pack light, and that laundromats are pretty much the same all over the Western hemisphere.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

After years of overpacking, I am bound and determined to start packing lighter. I'm a long way from the one carryon model, but I made my first attempt on my most recent China trip. It worked out pretty well. The key seems to be to wear casual skirts and dresses, which I don't typically do. But I tried in China and actually like it. The prana style clothing seems to work well (as does hiking clothes). I think I'm going to end up with a separate travel wardrobe


----------



## SingingMom

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> After years of overpacking, I am bound and determined to start packing lighter. I'm a long way from the one carryon model, but I made my first attempt on my most recent China trip. It worked out pretty well. The key seems to be to wear casual skirts and dresses, which I don't typically do. But I tried in China and actually like it. The prana style clothing seems to work well (as does hiking clothes). I think I'm going to end up with a separate travel wardrobe



I have been TRYING to pack lighter - but I can't seem to get the hang of it.  I HAVE found that using packing cubes really has helped me, however.  Baby steps....


----------



## aggiedog

Me too, Tink!  Dh and I are doing a Rhine river cruise with Road Scholar in the fall. (Long story as to how we ended up with Road Scholar.) I'll have to post a TR when I get back.  They do have a few family trips, and some for just grandparents and kids. The weird thing is that many of the trips that include kids skew towards younger kids, as in they can't be older than 16, and many of those trips select out the younger or older part of that spectrum.  Kids 8-11, or kids 12-16.  Doesn't work for us since we have 4 of varying ages.  Or, they can be 18 and travel with someone over 40.  I get that their primary focus is not family travel, but the age ranges seemed arbitrary.

My biggest concern for that trip will be night time activities on the boat.  I know it will be sedate, but I'm not sure just how sedate.  I'm not a party animal by any stretch, but I'm not looking forward to quiet conversation with only my dh for 13 nights straight.  I'm hoping we meet folks we can share conversation and drinks with.


----------



## SingingMom

[B said:
			
		

> My biggest concern for that trip will be night time activities on the boat.  I know it will be sedate, but I'm not sure just how sedate.  I'm not a party animal by any stretch, but I'm not looking forward to quiet conversation with only my dh for 13 nights straight.  I'm hoping we meet folks we can share conversation and drinks with[/B].



 Heck, you can STAY HOME and do THAT!    LOL


----------



## tink1970

aggiedog said:


> My biggest concern for that trip will be night time activities on the boat. I know it will be sedate, but I'm not sure just how sedate. I'm not a party animal by any stretch, but I'm not looking forward to quiet conversation with only my dh for 13 nights straight. I'm hoping we meet folks we can share conversation and drinks with.



My conversations with DH are usually pretty one sided so I get that for sure. Sometimes I just have the conversation for both of us and he looks at me like I'm .


----------



## Ava

aggiedog said:


> Me too, Tink!  Dh and I are doing a Rhine river cruise with Road Scholar in the fall. (Long story as to how we ended up with Road Scholar.) I'll have to post a TR when I get back.  They do have a few family trips, and some for just grandparents and kids. The weird thing is that many of the trips that include kids skew towards younger kids, as in they can't be older than 16, and many of those trips select out the younger or older part of that spectrum.  Kids 8-11, or kids 12-16.  Doesn't work for us since we have 4 of varying ages.  Or, they can be 18 and travel with someone over 40.  I get that their primary focus is not family travel, but the age ranges seemed arbitrary.


So, since you said this I looked at Road Scholar's website, and now I want to go on some of their trips! LOL. The age ranges for some of the family trips do seem arbitrary though. My kids are 4 years apart so I put various 4-year age gaps into the search function and every time I changed one of the ages, the number of available trips changed. It is a helpful tool, instead of having to click into each trip to see the minimum age like you do on most sites, but I can see how it'd be hard for a family with multiple kids and/or a big age gap to find a trip all the kids are able to take. The family trips also all say, "This is a Family program for participants, their adult children and grandchildren ages..." Which kind of makes it sound like you have to have multiple generations? Or it's worded that way because Road Scholar typically caters to people in the "grandparent" age range. Either way it's kind of an odd stipulation.


----------



## cadien

The different generation descriptions on the Road Scholar's site confused me too. But I'm really excited by their new China itinerary. Especially how it's about half the price of ABD's.


----------



## aggiedog

I'm glad I'm not the only one who isn't having exhilarating conversation with my dh every chance we get! LOL  Maybe y'all should come on the cruise!

https://www.roadscholar.org/find-an...rn-history-amsterdam-to-basel-along-the-rhine leaving Sep 14.

We actually started looking at them particularly because they were significantly cheaper, for a longer trip,  than ABD for a comparable location.  We put a deposit down on that trip but had to cancel due to family obligations.   We then had xxx amount of money to spend and dh and I decided to go somewhere without kids.  While there are plenty of old people activities and trips, there were several that looked interesting that I am confident I could not do physically.  Hiking in Cique Terre or the Dolomites.  Biking thru Andorra, etc, etc.  So, I think there are some pretty spry "old people" out there that could probably leave me in the dust!

I also suspect that the popularity of programs like ABD, etc, has led them to do more family oriented trips.  There is a China one that is "open to all generations, aunts, uncles, etc."  

The educational aspect appeals to me. I've really enjoyed the lectures I've been to on various cruises.  We like tour guides that can tell us more than just "this is X building and Y happened here." I like context, history, and cultural differences.  I keep hearing good things about other Road Scholar travelers that friends and acquaintances have met - that they seemed well traveled and interested in the culture around them.  So, fingers crossed we like it!


----------



## EllinK

What size groups does Roads Scholar travel with? Also, is it just one guide? They do have some very active, interesting trips!


----------



## aggiedog

They have a small groups section that is 10-24, but I've noticed that several I've looked at are that size (and are listed as small group on their description) but don't come up if you filter for small group.  So best answer is 10 to ??


----------



## CrazyZeus1

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I am going with Abercrombie & Kent to Antarctica in December, 2017.  We chose them for a few reasons: i) their timing worked with my daughter's school schedule, ii) their customer service is beyond amazing iii) there are around quite a few teenagers around the same age as my daughter on the trip iv) this is a "bucket list" trip for me and I am very excited to explore our seventh continent! v) this is silly, but they already sent the NICEST bound booklet with all the details we need for the trip (i.e. visa requirements, passport info {valid for 6 months after return}, shots, etc) with some gorgeous pictures.
> 
> I'm VERY impressed with A&K so far.  I can certainly see using them again -- actually I was wishing we had booked Iceland with them, but I digress.
> 
> I will post a detailed review on the trip when we return in January, 2018.
> 
> A quick note -- we booked the trip in Feb. or March for December, 2017.  I had a cabin on hold for 2 weeks (yeah, they let me hold it for waaaay more than the 3 days they were supposed to) - when I called to put down my deposit the trip was sold out.


Awesome!!!!!  I can't wait to see your review!!!  You guys do the Drake Passage right?  No flights?


----------



## Calfan

So I finally finished the "part 2" photo book of our 2016 China trip, which is the two days we spent at Shanghai Disneyland on our own after the conclusion of our trip with Thomson Family Adventures.  Since we did SHDL on our own (not surprisingly, SHDL is not part of the Thomson itinerary), it won't really be relevant to evaluating the Thomson itinerary vs. the ABD itinerary, but I'm happy to share it with anyone who is just curious about SHDL.  I won't even try to share it via a link here since that was so unsuccessful with "part 1", but I can share it with anyone who gives me an email address by PM.  If you're someone I shared the main photo book with already, I still have those email addresses, so you can just let me know that you'd like to see the book.


----------



## Bobo912

Calfan said:


> So I finally finished the "part 2" photo book of our 2016 China trip, which is the two days we spent at Shanghai Disneyland on our own after the conclusion of our trip with Thomson Family Adventures.  Since we did SHDL on our own (not surprisingly, SHDL is not part of the Thomson itinerary), it won't really be relevant to evaluating the Thomson itinerary vs. the ABD itinerary, but I'm happy to share it with anyone who is just curious about SHDL.  I won't even try to share it via a link here since that was so unsuccessful with "part 1", but I can share it with anyone who gives me an email address by PM.  If you're someone I shared the main photo book with already, I still have those email addresses, so you can just let me know that you'd like to see the book.



I would like to see it.    Thanks!


----------



## Calfan

Bobo912 said:


> I would like to see it.    Thanks!



Sent!


----------



## YodasMom

Calfan said:


> So I finally finished the "part 2" photo book of our 2016 China trip, which is the two days we spent at Shanghai Disneyland on our own after the conclusion of our trip with Thomson Family Adventures.  Since we did SHDL on our own (not surprisingly, SHDL is not part of the Thomson itinerary), it won't really be relevant to evaluating the Thomson itinerary vs. the ABD itinerary, but I'm happy to share it with anyone who is just curious about SHDL.  I won't even try to share it via a link here since that was so unsuccessful with "part 1", but I can share it with anyone who gives me an email address by PM.  If you're someone I shared the main photo book with already, I still have those email addresses, so you can just let me know that you'd like to see the book.



Hi......I would love to see Part 2!  Loved Part 1!!!   Thanks and great job on your book(s)!


----------



## sayhello

Calfan said:


> So I finally finished the "part 2" photo book of our 2016 China trip, which is the two days we spent at Shanghai Disneyland on our own after the conclusion of our trip with Thomson Family Adventures.  Since we did SHDL on our own (not surprisingly, SHDL is not part of the Thomson itinerary), it won't really be relevant to evaluating the Thomson itinerary vs. the ABD itinerary, but I'm happy to share it with anyone who is just curious about SHDL.  I won't even try to share it via a link here since that was so unsuccessful with "part 1", but I can share it with anyone who gives me an email address by PM.  If you're someone I shared the main photo book with already, I still have those email addresses, so you can just let me know that you'd like to see the book.


I'd like to see it, too!  

Sayhello


----------



## Calfan

YodasMom said:


> Hi......I would love to see Part 2!  Loved Part 1!!!   Thanks and great job on your book(s)!





sayhello said:


> I'd like to see it, too!
> 
> Sayhello



Sent to you both!


----------



## EllinK

I'd love to see it too.
Ellin


----------



## Calfan

EllinK said:


> I'd love to see it too.
> Ellin



Apologies if you previously PM'd me your email address, but I'm not finding it.  If you send me another PM with your email address, I'd be happy to send you the Shanghai Disneyland photo book.


----------



## sayhello

Calfan said:


> Sent to you both!


Loved your photo books!  I really should look at doing something like that!

Sayhello


----------



## Calfan

sayhello said:


> Loved your photo books!  I really should look at doing something like that!
> 
> Sayhello



Thank you!  It's somewhat of a labor of love to get the photo books done, but I love having them, and making them lets me re-live the experience of the trip


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

I've been doing photobooks as well for years, and I love having them. They used to be a total pain to make, but Shutterfly has a pretty cool organization pane that lets you drag and drop photos on pages. It goes much faster now. Although I do still have to force myself to sit down and actually do it.


----------



## CaliKris

I would love to see Part 2.  Will be at SHDL in a week!!


----------



## Calfan

CaliKris said:


> I would love to see Part 2.  Will be at SHDL in a week!!



How exciting!  Just sent the book.  Have an amazing time on your trip.


----------



## SingingMom

We do a photobook for every ABD. It's our "souvenir"!  DD did the first two, I did the third.  I now have to get my act together to do our Spain ABD!


----------



## nemofans

Those of you that have taken Tauck Bridges tours, do you have your kids wear the backpacks throughout the trip?  We are headed to Costa Rica & not sure if it's waterproof.  Do they keep them on the bus?  This is our 1st tour trip and I don't know how to figure what we'll carry with us while touring, especially in Costa Rica where it will be wet. I bought a dry bag, but I am assuming our rain jackets, binoculars, camera, plus personal stuff like phones & wallets go in there. 
 Any advice would be appreciated!!


----------



## laceltris3

Just booked Tauck Bridges Ireland for next summer.  I was so impressed that as previous Tauck guests, we got a free hotel night, which we are using as a pre trip night at the Conrad Dublin! It would have been about $1K for our family of five (which I had been planning on anyway for convenience).

Nemofans, we did Tauck Costa Rica last year and didn't bring all the backpacks. You generally leave them on the bus, and we carried two of them for our family of five for necessities, water, snacks, etc.  Each kid didn't need their own every day.


----------



## EllinK

I'm in Iceland now. It is spectacular! Jealous of everyone doing the ABD next year. I will have some tips on how to prepare in order to have the best trip possible...


----------



## carpenta

laceltris3 said:


> Just booked Tauck Bridges Ireland for next summer.  I was so impressed that as previous Tauck guests, we got a free hotel night, which we are using as a pre trip night at the Conrad Dublin! It would have been about $1K for our family of five (which I had been planning on anyway for convenience).
> 
> Nemofans, we did Tauck Costa Rica last year and didn't bring all the backpacks. You generally leave them on the bus, and we carried two of them for our family of five for necessities, water, snacks, etc.  Each kid didn't need their own every day.



 We are doing Tauck Costa Rica Family this Christmas and really looking forward to it. It is our 4th trip with Tauck and we LOVE the free night. Let's face it Tauck doesn't stay in shabby places. Any tips on Costa Rica I would appreciate it.


----------



## icehawkmom

My family is doing the Tauck Bridges Ireland trip next month. So if you have any questions about the tour, let me know and I'll be happy to help when we get back.


----------



## Woodview

To  Icehawkmom.

    I live in    Cork     ...... a 20 min . drive  from  Blarney  Castle.  

 Are you  visiting  Blarney Castle   or   Cobh    ( Pronounced   Cove ) ?

 Where are you staying  ?

 I am away  in  Amsterdam    from   7th August  till Tuesday  15th


----------



## laceltris3

carpenta said:


> We are doing Tauck Costa Rica Family this Christmas and really looking forward to it. It is our 4th trip with Tauck and we LOVE the free night. Let's face it Tauck doesn't stay in shabby places. Any tips on Costa Rica I would appreciate it.



We were the first trip ever where they flew us in and out of Tortuguero. There used to be a long and bumpy bus ride. The itinerary is different now than we did it, as are the hotels. Some of the changes seemed to have been based on our feedback. We started in Playa Hermosa and ended in Tortuguero/San Jose. All I can say is that the ziplining was awesome, Arenal is beautiful, and that the chocolate activity was soooo good! And things that you think might be weird, like the tour of the pineapple plantation are so much more fun than they sound. Don't be afraid and definitely choose to be in the water fight boats on the rafting day. 

Than goodness they changed the lodging in Tortuguero. Our place was terrible, and I had to stuff towels under our door at night to keep the literally hundreds of bugs from crawling into our room. It was gross.


----------



## laceltris3

icehawkmom said:


> My family is doing the Tauck Bridges Ireland trip next month. So if you have any questions about the tour, let me know and I'll be happy to help when we get back.



Please let me know when you get back. I'd love to hear your thoughts!


----------



## nemofans

Thanks for the Costa Rica tips!  I am nervous about packing and making sure we have what we need w/o overdoing it.  I will be bringing a dry bag that we will carry around with us that will have our camera, binoculars, wallet/passports, rain jackets.  We can then keep the other stuff in a backpack on the bus, like snacks, sunblock & bug spray.


----------



## BluesTraveler

@carpenta - I am interested in your impressions of National Geographic as a family tour operator.  I know other posters here have had very positive experiences, but I think your Iceland trip was a family-oriented one?  Can you give some feedback on them generally?


----------



## carpenta

I thought our Nat.Geo Family trip to Iceland was great. We had two guides who born and live in Iceland. Everywhere we went one of our guide would know someone earnestly outside from being the guide. We got so many insights about local history, folklore and general life of Iceland. We stayed in smaller local hotels and one village we filled the entire hotel (more like a bed and breakfast)and the guides had to stay up the road in another hotel. They take you away from the tourist swamped areas to small fjord towns. Smaller group (21max.) so we could travel many places a large tour bus would have trouble. A smaller size makes stops quicker and I admit that the group we traveled with was one of the most fun groups we have had yet. I know it is the luck of the draw. They offer a pen pal option for kids and the kids got to meet their pen pal for a day and dinner. You don't get the suitcase service most times but most of the meals are included as well as the tips. I 'll put it this way, It's like a behind the scenes of the life of Icelanders while still hitting the "must sees" of Iceland.


----------



## kmc33

We returned earlier this week from our TB Italia Bella trip (Rome, Florence, Venice).  Thank you to everyone on these boards who answered all of my questions and provided valuable information!!  We previously did two ABD trips and I was reluctant to try TB, especially because I could not find more information on them. There is not an active forum equivalent to this one, and I was concerned that it would not be as good as ABD. Fortunately some of you well travelled ABD veterans have also traveled with TB and were very helpful!

We had a wonderful trip!  We were very fortunate to be on a departure with only 28 guests.  All of the other dates before and after ours were sold out (max 40 guests) but for whatever reason, perhaps because our departure date was July 4th?, ours was not.  There are a few departures offered in a smaller group (26 guests) that cost extra, but we essentially got the smaller group experience for the normal price.  This added to the enjoyment because it was a really nice size group.

There was one tour director instead of two as on ABD, but there were local guides at each town.  Also, when we got to Venice, there was another Tauck guide available to help with our transfers to the water taxis from the train station, and again from the hotel to the airport.  Our tour director was excellent.  I don't know how the others are, but he was very organized, helpful and personable.  Also, we liked that he was originally from Italy, although he has lived in the US for sometime now.  But we thought it was helpful that he knew the language and Italian logistics, yet spoke impeccable English.

Everything else seemed very similar to an ABD (minus the pins, lol).  The hotels were very nice, in good locations.  There was a welcome reception followed by dinner, and on the final evening a farewell reception and dinner.  Both nights were lovely and well done. The included meals throughout the trip were good two, and there was a nice balance of group meals vs on your own.  The tour director was helpful with recommendations for meals on our own, as well as activities for on our own time.

I would not hesitate to do TB again.  The only thing for us, is that our son is going into his senior year of high school, so I am not sure if we would pick TB after he is in college.  That is one thing that may be an advantage for ABD.  There are some guests who come on ABD even if they don't have kids or have grown children.  Whereas, DS was almost the oldest on this TB trip.  The only one older was the oldest of three children in her family.  Perhaps because Tauck has other types of trips, TB is most likely to be families with children.  I asked our tour director about some of the other Tauck tours.  He sometimes does the Switzerland trip (Classic, not TB).  He said those trips are much less active.  He recommended the Tauck Culturious for DH and me if we were looking to do something without kids.  They look very nice but unfortunately they only have a small number of options right now.  Maybe they will expand, although the Italy culturious trip that goes to Cinque Terre, Lucca, Siena... looks fabulous.

Sorry if this is a little disjointed.  I was jotting down things as they came to mind.  If anyone has any questions, please let me know!


----------



## calypso726

Hi ABD peeps! I was wondering if any of you have been to Antarctica. If so, which company did you go with? I'm looking at Quark and Nat Geo at the moment. Thanks in advance.


----------



## laceltris3

calypso726 said:


> Hi ABD peeps! I was wondering if any of you have been to Antarctica. If so, which company did you go with? I'm looking at Quark and Nat Geo at the moment. Thanks in advance.



I have to wait a couple of years before my kids get older, but I have been looking at Ambercrombie & Kent.


----------



## calypso726

I looked at A&K too and they are on my radar since they can do Antarctica as well as South Georgia and the Falkland Islands with the number of days, 17,  DH might be able to get away with. Nat Geo does it in 24 days. My concern with A&K is that the ship can hold up to 199 passengers. From everything I've read, I should want a smaller ship which has a better chance of making more landings and getting passengers on land since they are limited to 100. Sigh ...


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

calypso726 said:


> I looked at A&K too and they are also on my radar since they can do Antarctica as well as South Georgia and the Falkland Islands with the number of days, 17,  DH might be able to get away with. Nat Geo does it in 24 days. My concern with A&K is that the ship can hold up to 199 passengers. From everything I've read, I should want a smaller ship which has a better chance of making more landings and getting passengers on land since they are limited to 100. Sigh ...



I am going to Antarctica with A&K in December.  I researched the various companies and the 2 reasons I chose A&K are: i) they are the only ones who offer a cruise during the Christmas school break and ii) the cruise offered during the Christmas break is a family cruise and has several teenagers around my daughter's age.  

My decision would've been _much_ harder if the other companies offered an itinerary during the same period.  

I am bummed that we don't have time to go to the Falkland Islands, but with the time off school my dd has we had do go with the one that worked best for us.  

From what I read you really can't go wrong with any of the companies going to Antarctica.  They all sound like great itineraries.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

calypso726 said:


> Hi ABD peeps! I was wondering if any of you have been to Antarctica. If so, which company did you go with? I'm looking at Quark and Nat Geo at the moment. Thanks in advance.



4 people on my Nat Geo trip did Antarctica with Nat Geo. They loved it.


----------



## AdamEfimoff

I am really awful at remembering names but to the Mister or Miss that is going to Singita . Did you end up going?


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

AdamEfimoff said:


> I am really awful at remembering names but to the Mister or Miss that is going to Singita . Did you end up going?



It was me and yes, we stayed at both Singita Sweni and Singita Ebony.  They were both beyond AMAZING.  I have no words for how much we LOVED everyone and everything about them.  We had the pleasure of meeting the owner of Singita -- he and his 2 young sons were getting the private plane at Sweni that we were boarding to head to Ebony.  He is a lovely gentleman and very much cares about what people think about his properties, concessions and staff.  We only had one glitch in the form of a bat in our room at Sweni 2 of the 3 nights we were there.  The lodge had been closed for renovations for 4 months prior to our stay and we were the first to occupy the suite.  I guess the bat moved in while the cabin was empty.  At first they thought he had entered the room when the housekeeping staff left the doors to the deck open during turn down service (there is a bed on the deck that you can sleep on -- we had no intention of using this in their winter but they make it up anyways).  By the second night they realized that he had moved in.  It was shocking and scary, but we can now count it as part of our "experience".  

We are already planning our stay next year (Sweni {NOT cabin 6}, Boulders and Pashumana -- Luke {the owner} highly recommends this lodge).  For those interested they are also building a lodge in Mozambique that will have a private concession that stretches to the ocean.

I am happy to answer any questions.  Since this trip was not ABD I don't want to go into too much detail on the board.  Our tour was: Singita Sweni (private charter plane from Jo'burg -- AMAZING), Sweni to Singita Ebony (another private plane for us), Ebony to Nelspruit (we shared this plane with another couple), Nelspruit to Cape Town (4 nights -- 3 days with a private guide), Cape Town to Livingstone, Zambia (via Jo'burg) where we stayed for 3 nights.  Zambia is another world.  Loved it, but not sure if I would go back (I would stay in Zimbabwe for a different experience and perspective of the falls though).  

For those wondering where to go next, if South Africa is on your radar, GO!  It was easily my favorite trip ever (we have been to China, Australia and Europe).


----------



## nemofans

Thanks everyone for your help!  We just got back from Tauck Bridges Costa Rica trip & it was amazing!  Costa Rica is so beautiful!  Our Tauck director was phenomenal & we really enjoyed the surprises he had for us.  We are definitely booking another Tauck Bridges trip for next summer.  We just need to decide between Alaska or Galapagos.


----------



## carpenta

nemofans said:


> Thanks everyone for your help!  We just got back from Tauck Bridges Costa Rica trip & it was amazing!  Costa Rica is so beautiful!  Our Tauck director was phenomenal & we really enjoyed the surprises he had for us.  We are definitely booking another Tauck Bridges trip for next summer.  We just need to decide between Alaska or Galapagos.



 Thanks for your feedback. We are doing this trip over the Christmas holidays. This will be our fourth trip with Tauck and also love them. Could you let me know any 'surprises" that you got and what was the kid to adult ratio? Thanks on advance.


----------



## nemofans

We had 36 people and in that group there were 14 kids (ages 7-16).  I will tell one surprise b/c it was an addition to the itinerary due to being at the hotel at the right time.  We were at El Mangroove and there was a Classical music performance happening there that night, so Jonas got us all in with front center seats.  Then we got to meet the musicians afterward.    They were from an international orchestra from Barcelona.  
Another surprise was a guest presenter at Royal Corin Hotel one night.  Both adults & kids really enjoyed it.  I don't want to give away too much.


----------



## kandt

nemofans said:


> Thanks everyone for your help!  We just got back from Tauck Bridges Costa Rica trip & it was amazing!  Costa Rica is so beautiful!  Our Tauck director was phenomenal & we really enjoyed the surprises he had for us.  We are definitely booking another Tauck Bridges trip for next summer.  We just need to decide between Alaska or Galapagos.


 What was the food like?  We are considering booking this for next summer.  Also, any opinion if it's better to book directly with Tauck or with a travel agent?  If you have any other details or tips about this trip, I would love to hear them!


----------



## carpenta

kandt said:


> What was the food like?  We are considering booking this for next summer.  Also, any opinion if it's better to book directly with Tauck or with a travel agent?  If you have any other details or tips about this trip, I would love to hear them!



 Just to answer your question about booking. I book directly with Tauck after my first time I went through a travel agent. Very easy to book through Tauck. After your first trip if you book again Tauck usually gives you a free pre or post night's stay in the hotel Tauck uses for the specific trip.


----------



## Bobo912

kandt said:


> What was the food like?  We are considering booking this for next summer.  Also, any opinion if it's better to book directly with Tauck or with a travel agent?  If you have any other details or tips about this trip, I would love to hear them!



This may vary by itinerary, but my experience with Tauck was better food.  More ordering off the menu and fewer buffets.


----------



## nemofans

There was so much food on our trip!  Huge portions and our guide made sure we had snacks or treats every 2 hours.  We were so stuffed by the end of the trip.  There were buffets for all breakfasts & the meals at Tortuguero.  Otherwise, we ate lunch and dinner at restaurants.  Lunches had a few choices and dinners were whatever we wanted to order off the menu.  Alcohol was not included except for the welcome and farewell dinners.  There was not 1 meal or activity we had to pay out of pocket for.
We booked directly with Tauck & it was super easy.  I booked our flight home through Tauck too.  The Tauck rep did book it on the wrong day, but I just called right back & they immediately changed it.  The kids received backpacks, we all received awesome duffle bags & ponchos from Tauck for the trip.
Let me know if you have any other questions!


----------



## Ava

nemofans said:


> There was so much food on our trip!  Huge portions and our guide made sure we had snacks or treats every 2 hours.  We were so stuffed by the end of the trip.  There were buffets for all breakfasts & the meals at Tortuguero.  Otherwise, we ate lunch and dinner at restaurants.  Lunches had a few choices and dinners were whatever we wanted to order off the menu.  Alcohol was not included except for the farewell dinner.  There was not 1 meal or activity we had to pay out of pocket for.
> We booked directly with Tauck & it was super easy.  I booked our flight home through Tauck too.  The Tauck rep did book it on the wrong day, but I just called right back & they immediately changed it.  The kids received backpacks, we all received awesome duffle bags & ponchos from Tauck for the trip.
> Let me know if you have any other questions!


Do you know if there were any vegetarians on your trip, or how Tauck handles dietary needs/restrictions? That's one thing that gives me reservations about ever taking a group tour where all/most meals are included. We're vegetarians, including our kids, and I'd worry that there won't be options we like or we'll end up being served the same few things at every meal.


----------



## kristilew

carpenta said:


> Just to answer your question about booking. I book directly with Tauck after my first time I went through a travel agent. Very easy to book through Tauck. After your first trip if you book again Tauck usually gives you a free pre or post night's stay in the hotel Tauck uses for the specific trip.




I love Tauck's "gift of time" free pre night. It is such a huge difference from ABD where you will end up paying more than rack rate for a pre night, just to get their airport pick up.


----------



## tink1970

kristilew said:


> I love Tauck's "gift of time" free pre night. It is such a huge difference from ABD where you will end up paying more than rack rate for a pre night, just to get their airport pick up.



It's one of the things I really like with Tauck. Others: small groups, solo discounts, and doesn't appear to have dynamic pricing. DH and I were torn between Tauck and ABD for Scotland next year (I've been several times but DH hasn't) and the Adults Only jumped right before he was ready to commit to ABD. So Tauck it is in 2018; we don't miss the extra guide especially with small groups. The "free gift of time" usually saves $300-$500 and is a very nice "thank you" to prior customers.


----------



## laceltris3

Our "Gift of Time" is saving us over $1000 at the Conrad Dublin for our Ireland trip next year! It is such a nice touch. I'd much prefer that to the slimmed down ABD boxes they're sending out these days.


----------



## sayhello

kristilew said:


> I love Tauck's "gift of time" free pre night. It is such a huge difference from ABD where you will end up paying more than rack rate for a pre night, just to get their airport pick up.


ABD did that last year for Insiders for the Danube River cruises (free pre- or post-night in Budapest).  It was SO NICE!  I don't know why they don't do it more.

Sayhello


----------



## nemofans

Yes there were vegetarian options, even at the small local restaurants.  A lot of the meals I ate were vegetarian by choice.


----------



## kaseyC

Question for those who traveled with Nat Geographic.  We are considering them for a family trip to China next summer.  They do not offer a family option for their China itineraries.  I was wondering if one of their regular small group trips would be work with our girls ages which would be 22, 17 and 15 or should we just consider doing one of their private tours with just our family?  We are also considering using Alexander + Roberts for their small group or private tours.  I like that they offer an add on for Hong Kong which Nat. Geo does not.  I would love to do ABD (especially after reading @CaliforniaGirl09's trip report) or Tauck but my husband feels their group sizes are too big.  He would like to go with something private or with small group size of under 20.  

Interested in your thoughts.  Feel free to suggest any other tour operators who may fit the bill.  Thanks.


----------



## Calfan

kaseyC said:


> Question for those who traveled with Nat Geographic.  We are considering them for a family trip to China next summer.  They do not offer a family option for their China itineraries.  I was wondering if one of their regular small group trips would be work with our girls ages which would be 22, 17 and 15 or should we just consider doing one of their private tours with just our family?  We are also considering using Alexander + Roberts for their small group or private tours.  I like that they offer an add on for Hong Kong which Nat. Geo does not.  I would love to do ABD (especially after reading @CaliforniaGirl09's trip report) or Tauck but my husband feels their group sizes are too big.  He would like to go with something private or with small group size of under 20.
> 
> Interested in your thoughts.  Feel free to suggest any other tour operators who may fit the bill.  Thanks.



Have you looked at Thomson Family Adventures?  We did China with them in 2016, and it was a fantastic experience and trip. Their itinerary is very similar to ABD (minus the parks of course, although we added on two days in Shanghai at the end of our trip to do Shanghai Disneyland).  It does not go to Hong Kong but the overall trip is 2 days longer than ABD's, so there is more time spent on mainland China. For example, Thomson's trip spends the night in Xi'an instead of flying in and out the same day, and their trip spends three nights in Yangshuo, which was my favorite area we visited.  Thomson's group sizes max out at around 20, and our trip had 10 people total.  They also guarantee their trips to go once they have one family booked.  This could be a great option for you guys for China if you are looking for a small-group experience, which is also our priority.  

I have also done two NatGeo trips, but those were Adventures hiking trips.  There were no kids/teens on those trips, but that could have been because both were in Sept. when kids are back in school or because of the hiking orientation.  If your 15 and 17 year olds are well-traveled and on the mature side, then I think you might be ok to take a chance with NatGeo.  Their trips have been fantastic as well.  I am doing my third hiking trip with them this Nov. (Patagonia), and we have our first family trip booked with them for June/July 2018 (Peru).


----------



## kaseyC

@Calfan thank you so much for your response.  I will definitely look at Thomson.  My girls are well traveled and on the mature side so Nat Geo may be a good fit. But I also realize they truly enjoyed meeting and hanging with other teens on our Tauck Bridges trips.


----------



## Bobo912

kaseyC said:


> @Calfan thank you so much for your response.  I will definitely look at Thomson.  My girls are well traveled and on the mature side so Nat Geo may be a good fit. But I also realize they truly enjoyed meeting and hanging with other teens on our Tauck Bridges trips.



I can't comment of the likelihood of children being on the small group tours, but on the NatGeo Galapagos trip (just over 100 guests on the ship), we had a lot of kids.  It was a regular departure - not a family trip - during spring break time frame.  No little kids, but a lot in the 11 to 14 age range, plus some older teens.  It was the best group tour we have taken.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

kaseyC said:


> Question for those who traveled with Nat Geographic.  We are considering them for a family trip to China next summer.  They do not offer a family option for their China itineraries.  I was wondering if one of their regular small group trips would be work with our girls ages which would be 22, 17 and 15 or should we just consider doing one of their private tours with just our family?  We are also considering using Alexander + Roberts for their small group or private tours.  I like that they offer an add on for Hong Kong which Nat. Geo does not.  I would love to do ABD (especially after reading @CaliforniaGirl09's trip report) or Tauck but my husband feels their group sizes are too big.  He would like to go with something private or with small group size of under 20.
> 
> Interested in your thoughts.  Feel free to suggest any other tour operators who may fit the bill.  Thanks.



The only issue you might run into with The Nat Geo group trip is the age of your children. I believe regular Nat Geo trips the age is 18 and over. Size wise, the expeditions are about 25 people max and the adventures are 16 max. The advantage to doing the private trip is that it will be just your family and the guides and the ages of your kids won't matter. Plus, if you really want to add Hong Kong on, Nat Geo can do that with a private. They can customize a private trip to meet your touring needs. We are doing a private trip to Zambia with Nat Geo and our trip ends at Victoria Falls. What happened to us was that a different tour company bought out the entire hotel we were booked to stay at on the Zambia side of the falls for the 2 nights we were there. Nat Geo didn't even blink, they just rearranged things and worked it out so that we are now staying at an equivalent level hotel on the Zimbabwe side of the falls. Also, we are going in a day early so our trip manager has arranged a trip to a local cultural village in Lusaka. Another nice advantage to the private trips with Nat Geo is you are not tied to pre-set trip dates. They go when you want to go so if there is a time of year you want to go or is more convenient the. You can choose the dates that work for you.


----------



## chiisai

icehawkmom said:


> My family is doing the Tauck Bridges Ireland trip next month. So if you have any questions about the tour, let me know and I'll be happy to help when we get back.



Hey there- how did you like the Ireland trip?


----------



## Ava

Does anyone here have experience with Intrepid Travel? They're an Australian company & offer a lot of interesting-sounding tours at a budget price point. They offer three levels of tours - "Basix," "Original," and "Comfort." The Basix ones are very budget, with some camping and/or hostel accommodations, but the Original and Comfort ones sound on par with a GAdventures or Rick Steves tour (respectively) as far as the type of accommodation & number of included meals/activities. They also have Family tours, some to different locations than you often see - Mexico, Morocco, India. (And a Japan family tour, which I know is on a lot of people here's "bucket list.")


----------



## Calfan

Just read this Forbes article on Micato Safaris for Africa trips (or India), and talk about a glowing review....I'll definitely be checking them out before making any booking decision on our planned 2019 Africa trip.

https://jambo-hqtneasuix7qyraoh6n.n...HGjuTuvlkAg61VvQyk_Q2AbLTzxhZg&_hsmi=57835003


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Calfan said:


> Just read this Forbes article on Micato Safaris for Africa trips (or India), and talk about a glowing review....I'll definitely be checking them out before making any booking decision on our planned 2019 Africa trip.
> 
> https://jambo-hqtneasuix7qyraoh6n.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/Forbes-Reviews-Micato_September-2017.pdf?utm_campaign=2017-10 Larry Olmsted Article Blast&utm_source=hs_email&utm_medium=email&utm_content=57809550&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-8MKkREce2kMFXDWD7m3DNLwLOoxvWzHyDWLQ1zE4mS__Vfer-yoB8HQrOWKO4CHGjuTuvlkAg61VvQyk_Q2AbLTzxhZg&_hsmi=57835003


Wow, that sounds amazing!


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Calfan said:


> Just read this Forbes article on Micato Safaris for Africa trips (or India), and talk about a glowing review....I'll definitely be checking them out before making any booking decision on our planned 2019 Africa trip.
> 
> https://jambo-hqtneasuix7qyraoh6n.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/Forbes-Reviews-Micato_September-2017.pdf?utm_campaign=2017-10 Larry Olmsted Article Blast&utm_source=hs_email&utm_medium=email&utm_content=57809550&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-8MKkREce2kMFXDWD7m3DNLwLOoxvWzHyDWLQ1zE4mS__Vfer-yoB8HQrOWKO4CHGjuTuvlkAg61VvQyk_Q2AbLTzxhZg&_hsmi=57835003



Micato has a stellar reputation.  However I would caution you to fully research their itineraries.  Some stay at middle-of-the road accommodations and you are paying top dollar.

I looked at them in detail and while I would still consider them, I preferred the Singita lodges we stayed at (Sweni and Ebony).  They were small, very luxurious and the staff was amazing.  The price was comparable to Micato but our experience was very personalized.  

I highly recommend looking at where you want to go in South Africa (or East Africa) and look at doing it privately.  We did that last summer and are doing it again this summer.  There is something magical about a sun downer in the bush with your private vehicle, driver and guide, watching the sun set over the horizon.  Or a private "bush breakfast".  Or dinner on the private landing strip of the lodge you are staying at surrounded by softly burning tiki torches.  There are no adequate words to describe the experience.


----------



## AnnaFloridaLover

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> Micato has a stellar reputation.  However I would caution you to fully research their itineraries.  Some stay at middle-of-the road accommodations and you are paying top dollar.
> 
> I looked at them in detail and while I would still consider them, I preferred the Singita lodges we stayed at (Sweni and Ebony).  They were small, very luxurious and the staff was amazing.  The price was comparable to Micato but our experience was very personalized.
> 
> I highly recommend looking at where you want to go in South Africa (or East Africa) and look at doing it privately.  We did that last summer and are doing it again this summer.  There is something magical about a sun downer in the bush with your private vehicle, driver and guide, watching the sun set over the horizon.  Or a private "bush breakfast".  Or dinner on the private landing strip of the lodge you are staying at surrounded by softly burning tiki torches.  There are no adequate words to describe the experience.



I would love to know how to do this trip privately.  Any and all hints or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.  We have travelled extensively however South Africa and safaris are on our to do list for next year and I'm feeling a bit intimidated.  Feel free to private message me or help me out from this thread.  Thanks in advance!


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> Micato has a stellar reputation.  However I would caution you to fully research their itineraries.  Some stay at middle-of-the road accommodations and you are paying top dollar.
> 
> I looked at them in detail and while I would still consider them, I preferred the Singita lodges we stayed at (Sweni and Ebony).  They were small, very luxurious and the staff was amazing.  The price was comparable to Micato but our experience was very personalized.
> 
> I highly recommend looking at where you want to go in South Africa (or East Africa) and look at doing it privately.  We did that last summer and are doing it again this summer.  There is something magical about a sun downer in the bush with your private vehicle, driver and guide, watching the sun set over the horizon.  Or a private "bush breakfast".  Or dinner on the private landing strip of the lodge you are staying at surrounded by softly burning tiki torches.  There are no adequate words to describe the experience.


Thanks so much for the head's up on this. I definitely want all 5 star places at prices like that!


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

AnnaFloridaLover said:


> I would love to know how to do this trip privately.  Any and all hints or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.  We have travelled extensively however South Africa and safaris are on our to do list for next year and I'm feeling a bit intimidated.  Feel free to private message me or help me out from this thread.  Thanks in advance!



I'm doing a private expedition with National Geographic to Zambia (which now includes a few nights in Zimbabwe on their side of Victoria Falls). Zambia is home of the walking safari. It will just be me and my mom on the trip when we go in May 2018. I'll be posting a trip blog about it, just like I did for my South East Asia trip.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Calfan and I just got back from our Nat Geo Hiking trip to Patagonia. It was my second experience with Nat Geo (the first was the Coast to Coast) and Calfan's third (she also went on a hiking trip to Ireland with her husband last year). Once again we had a fabulous experience. Nat Geo really does a great job. We stayed in the nicest places available, *all* meals were included, we had a nice small bus for transportation with plenty of room to spread out, and the group was 15 with two guides and a driver who also served as additional logistics help--so basically 3 to 15. We put our bags out in the morning, they were instantly taken, and literally a few minutes after we arrived they'd be knocking on our door to put them in our room. The quality of the guides was exceptional, and I'd put them right up there with any guide we've ever had on ABD. We also had plenty of extra "surprises," although Nat Geo doesn't make a big deal out of them. Alcohol is technically not included on the trip, but almost every night we had toasting drinks and/or wine. As we were celebrating our 50th birthdays, they had a beautiful cake for us the last night. We also had a stop or two where they picked up treats for us on the road, and we even had our transfer between the two airports after our trip was over unexpectedly arranged and paid for. If you are considering one of Nat Geo's Adventures (active trips), I wouldn't hesitate. I'm sure Calfan will have more to add and things I've forgotten.


----------



## Calfan

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> Calfan and I just got back from our Nat Geo Hiking trip to Patagonia. It was my second experience with Nat Geo (the first was the Coast to Coast) and Calfan's third (she also went on a hiking trip to Ireland with her husband last year). Once again we had a fabulous experience. Nat Geo really does a great job. We stayed in the nicest places available, *all* meals were included, we had a nice small bus for transportation with plenty of room to spread out, and the group was 15 with two guides and a driver who also served as additional logistics help--so basically 3 to 15. We put our bags out in the morning, they were instantly taken, and literally a few minutes after we arrived they'd be knocking on our door to put them in our room. The quality of the guides was exceptional, and I'd put them right up there with any guide we've ever had on ABD. We also had plenty of extra "surprises," although Nat Geo doesn't make a big deal out of them. Alcohol is technically not included on the trip, but almost every night we had toasting drinks and/or wine. As we were celebrating our 50th birthdays, they had a beautiful cake for us the last night. We also had a stop or two where they picked up treats for us on the road, and we even had our transfer between the two airports after our trip was over unexpectedly arranged and paid for. If you are considering one of Nat Geo's Adventures (active trips), I wouldn't hesitate. I'm sure Calfan will have more to add and things I've forgotten.



I second everything CaliforniaGirl said about our Nat Geo experience in Patagonia (and on previous trips).  I really can't recommend Nat Geo enough (at least for the active trips; my family is taking its first Nat Geo family trip next June/July to Peru, so I can give more input on that arm of Nat Geo once we get back).  As CaliforniaGirl noted, the guide ratio and small group experience are exceptional, as is the low-key way Nat Geo adds extras and surprises to the experience.  One "extra" that CaliforniaGirl didn't mention is that we were given detailed maps of the Patagonia region and of the two national parks in which we hiked, and our head guide took the time to note on each map each hike we did, the date, etc. so we would have an exact record of the routes we hiked.  Such a nice touch and a lot of extra time on the guide's part to do this.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Calfan said:


> I second everything CaliforniaGirl said about our Nat Geo experience in Patagonia (and on previous trips).  I really can't recommend Nat Geo enough (at least for the active trips; my family is taking its first Nat Geo family trip next June/July to Peru, so I can give more input on that arm of Nat Geo once we get back).  As CaliforniaGirl noted, the guide ratio and small group experience are exceptional, as is the low-key way Nat Geo adds extras and surprises to the experience.  One "extra" that CaliforniaGirl didn't mention is that we were given detailed maps of the Patagonia region and of the two national parks in which we hiked, and our head guide took the time to note on each map each hike we did, the date, etc. so we would have an exact record of the routes we hiked.  Such a nice touch and a lot of extra time on the guide's part to do this.


How could I forget that? I just told my husband that those maps were the best trip gift I'd ever received. I even took them in my carryons to not risk losing.


----------



## Cousin Orville

@Calfan and @CaliforniaGirl09 ,

The pictures I saw of this trip were incredible!  Which Patagonia trip did you take?  There's an Exploring Patagonia 11 day with Light/Moderate Activity.  There's also a Patagonia Hiking Adventure 13 days. with Strenuous Activity.   I'm interested in these, but don't regularly hike or walk 5-15 miles daily.  How would you recommend preparing for these trips?  I don't prepare with daily walks/runs when going anywhere from Europe to Walt Disney World, but these active NatGeo trips are probably on a totally different level.  In short, how in shape does one need to be to consider these trips?


----------



## Calfan

Cousin Orville said:


> @Calfan and @CaliforniaGirl09 ,
> 
> The pictures I saw of this trip were incredible!  Which Patagonia trip did you take?  There's an Exploring Patagonia 11 day with Light/Moderate Activity.  There's also a Patagonia Hiking Adventure 13 days. with Strenuous Activity.   I'm interested in these, but don't regularly hike or walk 5-15 miles daily.  How would you recommend preparing for these trips?  I don't prepare with daily walks/runs when going anywhere from Europe to Walt Disney World, but these active NatGeo trips are probably on a totally different level.  In short, how in shape does one need to be to consider these trips?



With the scenery in Patagonia, it isn’t hard to take good pictures, lol!  Seriously, though, I have to say that Patagonia is the most visually stunning place I have visited so far.  We did the Patagonia Hiking Adventure, which is apparently Nat Geo’s third most difficult active trip.  My take from having done the moderate Hiking the Emerald Isle trip last year is that you’d be ok with the Exploring Patagonia trip (which I take is more geered toward sightseeing) with light/moderate activity with minimal trip-specific training as long as you are in decent shape.  But you would definitely want to train for the hiking version.  I do have to say that if you are up for it, I’d lean toward doing the training and doing the hiking trip since certain of the views we saw can only be achieved at the end of a hike, and can’t be driven to or walked to with light or moderate activity.  CaliforniaGirl can chime in more on her own training, but I know she hiked a lot on a specific trail with a few significant climbs, and she also trained at altitude in Lake Tahoe.  We weren’t really at altitude in Patagonia, but a number of the hikes involved elevation gains of 2,000 or 3,000 feet.  I live a bit at altitude in Boise, but I also trained by doing a number of fast-paced fitness hikes with a hiking meet up group, as well as some other hikes, working out with a personal trainer and OrangeTheory.  In addition, both CaliforniaGirl and I have done a number of half marathons over the last year.   I’d recommend at a minimum doing some training hiking with hills and some lower body weight training to prepare.  The other thing to keep in mind about hiking in Patagonia is that a lot of the terrain is pretty tricky and involves scrambling over rocks and boulders.  It can be hard on the knees if that is an issue for you at all.  Otherwise, it just takes a lot of mental concentration and energy to watch your foot placement.  But I highly, highly recommend this trip.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Calfan said:


> With the scenery in Patagonia, it isn’t hard to take good pictures, lol!  Seriously, though, I have to say that Patagonia is the most visually stunning place I have visited so far.  We did the Patagonia Hiking Adventure, which is apparently Nat Geo’s third most difficult active trip.  My take from having done the moderate Hiking the Emerald Isle trip last year is that you’d be ok with the Exploring Patagonia trip (which I take is more geered toward sightseeing) with light/moderate activity with minimal trip-specific training as long as you are in decent shape.  But you would definitely want to train for the hiking version.  I do have to say that if you are up for it, I’d lean toward doing the training and doing the hiking trip since certain of the views we saw can only be achieved at the end of a hike, and can’t be driven to or walked to with light or moderate activity.  CaliforniaGirl can chime in more on her own training, but I know she hiked a lot on a specific trail with a few significant climbs, and she also trained at altitude in Lake Tahoe.  We weren’t really at altitude in Patagonia, but a number of the hikes involved elevation gains of 2,000 or 3,000 feet.  I live a bit at altitude in Boise, but I also trained by doing a number of fast-paced fitness hikes with a hiking meet up group, as well as some other hikes, working out with a personal trainer and OrangeTheory.  In addition, both CaliforniaGirl and I have done a number of half marathons over the last year.   I’d recommend at a minimum doing some training hiking with hills and some lower body weight training to prepare.  The other thing to keep in mind about hiking in Patagonia is that a lot of the terrain is pretty tricky and involves scrambling over rocks and boulders.  It can be hard on the knees if that is an issue for you at all.  Otherwise, it just takes a lot of mental concentration and energy to watch your foot placement.  But I highly, highly recommend this trip.



i second everything Calfan said about the trip and training required. Assuming you are in good health with decent knees, I think you could easily train to be able to do the Hiking Adventure by next fall. It would be worth it! I'm sure the other trip is great, but seeing some of this stuff up close ... it's awesome in the true sense of the word. 

I was really intimidated by the "strenuous" rating and ended up training quite a bit, which really helped. I was much improved from the Coast to Coast where I felt a lot more sore, tired, and winded. I did a number of 5-8 mile hikes on the Pacific Crest Trail in Tahoe (at altitude) that really helped with my overall fitness level and endurance. It also helped with the footing we faced in Patagonia as there are lots of rocks and quite a bit of scree in Tahoe. I probably averaged two-four hikes month in the past year, with more like four to six as the trip got closer. As Calfan mentioned though, the difficult part of this hiking in Patagonia is the footing. It's tricky and at times intimidating. You'll want to get used to poles and break in a really good pair of waterproof hiking boots with great ankle support. 

I can't remember where you live, but maybe start out with a three mile hike on a local trail and take it from there. If you like it, look for places with hills. We have a 5 mile hiking trail with about 1100 feet of elevation near our home that REALLY helped wth the coast to coast, and has become a staple on our weekends with the whole family, although my special needs son doesn't love it, LOL. 

I hesitate to mention this because I don't want to put you off (if the training hasn't already done so), but in the interest of full disclosure, I do want to mention that two of the nights are spent at rustic accommodations called refugios. For this 5-star hotel fan, it was a bit of a shock to the system, LOL. I've never been a backpacker and have never stayed in a hostel. I used to camp with my family when I was a kid, but that was (cough, cough) 35+ years ago. The first place was pretty basic, but the second place was so charming, I could have stayed a couple nights even with the shared showers and bathrooms. One of the jokes of the trip was that Calfan and I were going to get t-shirts that said "we survived the refugio."  

I was never much of a hiker growing up, but the Coast to Coast trip a couple years ago was a life-changing trip. My entire family now hikes quite a bit and we've made it a part of our life and most of our travel. I guess what I'm saying is that I don't think you will regret any work that would go into prepping for this trip. It's been an amazing lifestyle change for me, and as I near my 50th birthday, I'm really glad of it


----------



## disneyphx

Just wanted to share that we went on an amazing trip with Natural Habitat over Thanksgiving to see the polar bears. It was their first time doing a family trip, and it was all around incredible. There were 15 in our group - there were actually 3 groups of the same size, but they rotated activities and restaurants so we were really only together on the charter flights.
They also do family trips to Botswana and Galapagos. For other trips you have to ask about taking kids - from what our guide said, they sometimes say no depending on age and destination. Fortunately he said he thought DD would be Ok on all of them. Interestingly, he said when he has had kids on trips, often the issue is not the kids, but that other people on the trip don't want kids to be there......so that might be a consideration in looking at some companies.
Happy to answer any questions!


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

disneyphx said:


> Interestingly, he said when he has had kids on trips, often the issue is not the kids, but that other people on the trip don't want kids to be there......so that might be a consideration in looking at some companies.



That's because not everyone wants to travel with kids. Whether it's their own or someone else's. I know that I personally am not a kid person. I don't have kids myself and don't plan on ever having kids. I don't want to travel on trips with kids. It's why the few ABDs I did were the adult exclusive and why I opted to travel with the Nat Geo. They are adult trips. We are doing a private expedition with them next year, which may or may not accommodate kids, I don't remember. I think you have to talk to Nat Geo about it because it's up to the Game Lodge what age they accept as we are staying out in the middle of the game reserve at bush camps, not just at the main lodge so that would determine what age the kids can be.

We've had a bit of fun with the pre-trip organization of this trip, which you'll be able to read about when I start posting the blog for this trip next year. This was a brand new trip for Nat Geo so we've been working through a few kinks in the system.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> That's because not everyone wants to travel with kids. Whether it's their own or someone else's. I know that I personally am not a kid person. I don't have kids myself and don't plan on ever having kids. I don't want to travel on trips with kids. It's why the few ABDs I did were the adult exclusive and why I opted to travel with the Nat Geo. They are adult trips. We are doing a private expedition with them next year, which may or may not accommodate kids, I don't remember. I think you have to talk to Nat Geo about it because it's up to the Game Lodge what age they accept as we are staying out in the middle of the game reserve at bush camps, not just at the main lodge so that would determine what age the kids can be.
> 
> We've had a bit of fun with the pre-trip organization of this trip, which you'll be able to read about when I start posting the blog for this trip next year. This was a brand new trip for Nat Geo so we've been working through a few kinks in the system.



Which Nat Geo trip are you going on?  It sounds very intriguing!


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> Which Nat Geo trip are you going on?  It sounds very intriguing!



We're doing the Nat Geo Private Expedition to Zambia. Normally this trip only goes to Zambia, ending with a stay at one of the hotels in Livingstone on the Zambia side of Victoria Falls. Except our trip. The hotel decided to sell out to a tour group during our trip dates so we are actually staying at the Victoria Falls Hotel in Zimbabwe instead. This was a new trip for Nat Geo in 2017. We're going in 2018 but they are still working out the kinks for it. We've had a lot of "fun" in the planning/organizing side of it, just with getting proper/correct information. This is a bucklist trip and one that will definitely be one to remember. This will be our bushcamp for 2 nights while we're there. http://bushcampcompany.com/bushcamps/chindeni.php


----------



## sayhello

disneyphx said:


> View attachment 285702


Just wanted to say, that is a *fabulous* photo!!!

Sayhello


----------



## AquamarineSteph

Just returned from our first Rick Steves trip to Sicily.  So far I have now traveled with ABD, Tauck, CIE, G Adventures (National Geographic co-branded trip), and now Rick Steves.

The trip was great because Sicily was amazing, but this is a very, very, very different experience from traveling with ABD.  It is very budget friendly, though.


----------



## riot23

AquamarineSteph said:


> Just returned from our first Rick Steves trip to Sicily.  So far I have now traveled with ABD, Tauck, CIE, G Adventures (National Geographic co-branded trip), and now Rick Steves.
> 
> The trip was great because Sicily was amazing, but this is a very, very, very different experience from traveling with ABD.  It is very budget friendly, though.



Thanks for sharing! I'm booked for my very first ABD next summer in Germany.  I wondered how other tours, specifically Rick Steves, would compare since I use his books to plan my pre and post activities.  Could you give more specifics of things you enjoyed or disliked on the Rick Steves tour?


----------



## tink1970

AquamarineSteph said:


> Just returned from our first Rick Steves trip to Sicily. So far I have now traveled with ABD, Tauck, CIE, G Adventures (National Geographic co-branded trip), and now Rick Steves.
> 
> The trip was great because Sicily was amazing, but this is a very, very, very different experience from traveling with ABD. It is very budget friendly, though.



Thanks for letting us know-RS has so many tours/itineraries that I know I would adore but suspect my lazy, overpacking self would not be a good fit. Glad to hear you enjoyed it, though.


----------



## AquamarineSteph

riot23 said:


> Thanks for sharing! I'm booked for my very first ABD next summer in Germany.  I wondered how other tours, specifically Rick Steves, would compare since I use his books to plan my pre and post activities.  Could you give more specifics of things you enjoyed or disliked on the Rick Steves tour?



It's a good question since I'm still mulling this over with my other half.  What did we like/dislike about this trip?  We DID enjoy it immensely.  Sicily is AMAZING.  But let me think if I can be concise here on my just returned from a trip impressions.

Liked:  
--- Hotels.  They aren't as upscale as some of the ABD selections, but they were all fabulous (think character and hotels of yesteryear) with great locations which made them so very walkable for free time.  I'm still in love with our first hotel in Palermo which was one of my three all time favorites in Italy.
--- Food.  The tour (like many others) provides all of your breakfasts and half your lunch and/or dinners.  On most RS tours, alcohol is on your own.  On this tour, it was included with every tour-provided lunch/dinner.  Also the places we visited were all run by locals who stepped out of the kitchen to show us something about their cuisine or how to prepare a certain dish.  Yes, ABD does this in some locations as well, but we saw this feature multiple times on this trip.
--- Extra Experiences.  It's impossible for me to compare the extra experiences from one tour company to another (unless they just don't provide any real extras at all), but this tour did a wonderful job of throwing in extra moments that made this trip feel special.  (No pins, of course.)
--- Packing Light.  This is not my strong point, but since you're responsible for carting your own luggage on a RS tour, it's best to pack light.  On this trip, we did our best job ever of packing light, and we learned a lot from it.
--- Fellow tour participants.  This was one of the best tour groups I have ever encountered, hands down.  Everyone was friendly, and we quickly fell into an easy camaraderie. RS has a stated 'no grumps' policy for all of their tours, so perhaps that helped?  

Didn't Like:
--- Orientation Walks.  Many locations had an orientation walk shortly after arrival and check in at the hotel.  In the summer, this would be a lot of fun.  We were there in late November.  The walk was done after dark with a map you couldn't really see.  I didn't think this was effective at this time of year.  Otherwise, it would be great.
--- Too Much History.  Now those who love history will take exception to this part, perhaps, but let me start by saying I did a history minor at university.  I used to work as an historical interpreter.  I love history.  But in this case, there was a nonstop litany of names, dates and geopolitical histories going back to the times of the Phoenicians.   Don't get me wrong.  Sicily has an amazing history which has shaped its current culture.  It is unique compared to the rest of Italy in that respect.  But after a certain point, I would have loved to hear more about other topics like the many wind turbines we saw or how Sicily is handling this/that/the other in current time.  Our guide was great to answer questions if asked, but the daily litany was always a line of dates and names.   (Again, the guide wasn't just reading it off a sheet.  She knew this stuff backwards and forwards, but this often seemed to be the entire emphasis of a day's remarks.)
--- Initial Orientation Meeting.  While most tours start off telling you a bit about the local culture and customs, this one started off with a history lesson and a package of tissues to take to the restroom.  We've traveled in Italy before, but for those people for whom this was their initial introduction to Italy - well, I think a few explanations about bathrooms and how to order coffee might have been in order.

So as you can see, the likes actually outweigh the dislikes.  And those aren't hard dislikes.  They're personal observations for what did/didn't work IMO.  I would easily do another RS tour if it went to a destination I wanted to visit with a tour group.  But I would seriously look at my options if other tour companies handled the same areas.


----------



## DCPhotoGal

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> That's because not everyone wants to travel with kids. Whether it's their own or someone else's. I know that I personally am not a kid person. I don't have kids myself and don't plan on ever having kids. I don't want to travel on trips with kids. It's why the few ABDs I did were the adult exclusive and why I opted to travel with the Nat Geo. They are adult trips.



I agree with keeping the adult trips for adults and family trips for families... I wouldn't push my kids on a trip designed for adults, even with them both being teenagers.  My kids enjoy having other kids around on the tours, it's part of the draw to ABD tours vs. going on our own.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

DCPhotoGal said:


> I agree with keeping the adult trips for adults and family trips for families... I wouldn't push my kids on a trip designed for adults, even with them both being teenagers.  My kids enjoy having other kids around on the tours, it's part of the draw to ABD tours vs. going on our own.



Maybe that's part of the issue we had with ABD as adult travellers traveling without children. Even though we were on the "adult exclusive" trips, the trips themselves were not actually geared towards just adults. They don't have a modified "adult" itinerary for the adult exclusive trips beyond taking out the kids nights etc. I know on my Central Europe ABD, which I took the adult exclusive trip, there were some activities on it that really should have been removed from our itinerary. No one in our group was interested in the pretzel making at all. It was like pulling teeth to get anyone to actually make the pretzels. This may have been a great activity on the family trips but it was a complete waste of time on ours. I know this itinerary has changed since we took it, but I'm just using this to highlight my point. I think ABD is a great tour company - for families. Not for adults who don't want to travel with children. 

Only trip we will ever consider doing with ABD again is the Backstage Magic. If we ever feel like touring Disneyland behind the scenes again. But we don't really enjoy traveling en masse with large groups of people. We liked being with the smaller group on our Nat Geo Adventure to South East Asia but even that got trying at times for us. We're both introverts and forced group time can be exhausting for us. We're going to try private expeditions a try and see how we like that. Not to say we won't take another Active Adventure (hiking through Southern France is definitely calling us) but large groups like ABD are definitely not our style, nor is travelling with children.


----------



## MakiraMarlena

> Maybe that's part of the issue we had with ABD as adult travellers traveling without children. Even though we were on the "adult exclusive" trips, the trips themselves were not actually geared towards just adults.



Didn't really have that issue on the two I took (Australia in 2009 and South Africa in 2017). Would have liked more wine tasting in the wine lands at SA but what we did was fun even for adults. And I had a couple of days pre-tour and used that to take a dedicated wine tour. It wasn't cheap, but worth the money. I would love to get back to South Africa more often to do wine tours, but it's so far that I figured, go for it while I am there.

I think the SA itinerary had a cooking activity, but it had been removed from the itinerary before my tour (all the itineraries, I think, not just the adult ones). And we were offered the movie screening they generally do for the kids, but you didn't have to do it. Most of our group turned up for it. The guides said there were more of us adults at that movie than they usually get when they screen it for the kids. I remember in Australia they just didn't have the movie night at all.

I'll probably do another ABD, but only the adult exclusive.


----------



## SingingMom

We adults enjoyed pretzel making in Central Europe - but Germany's tasted better. lol


----------



## hilarys

SingingMom said:


> We adults enjoyed pretzel making in Central Europe - but Germany's tasted better. lol


Me too.  I will take any activity involving cooking or food, but the waltz lesson was another story.  I could have done without that.


----------



## OhanaCuz

hilarys said:


> Me too.  I will take any activity involving cooking or food, but the waltz lesson was another story.  I could have done without that.



OMG this is so true.  I avoided looking at too many details about the excursions because I wanted to be surprised.  I would have ran for the hills if I knew that was coming. 

Then again I wasn't really interested when I read we were going to a puppet show in Vienna but I found it fascinating.


----------



## SingingMom

OhanaCuz said:


> OMG this is so true.  I avoided looking at too many details about the excursions because I wanted to be surprised.  I would have ran for the hills if I knew that was coming.
> 
> Then again I wasn't really interested when I read we were going to a puppet show in Vienna but I found it fascinating.




I also don't read too many details so we are surprised, but I wish we had skipped the waltz lesson!  Hubby sent DD & I - he stayed back & packed.  The dance studio was SO hot that I would have done better just soaking in that gorgeous Ritz Carlton or walking along the pedestrian shopping area in Vienna!


----------



## SingingMom

SingingMom said:


> I also don't read too many details so we are surprised, but I wish we had skipped the waltz lesson!  Hubby sent DD & I - he stayed back & packed.  The dance studio was SO hot that I would have done better just soaking in that gorgeous Ritz Carlton or walking along the pedestrian shopping area in Vienna!


....But I WILL say - the Flamenco lesson on the Spain ABD was FABULOUS!  One of our best evenings!


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

SingingMom said:


> I also don't read too many details so we are surprised, but I wish we had skipped the waltz lesson!  Hubby sent DD & I - he stayed back & packed.  The dance studio was SO hot that I would have done better just soaking in that gorgeous Ritz Carlton or walking along the pedestrian shopping area in Vienna!



We actually stayed at the Spanish Riding School for a bit before returning to Schonbrunn for lunch and then touring Vienna on our own. We just bailed on the rest of the day after the Spanish Riding School visit.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

It sounds like I am in the minority but I LOVED the waltz lesson.  How often am I ever going to get a lesson on the Viennese waltz while in Vienna?  I'm thinking maybe never again.  I enjoyed the flow and rhythm and felt like I was gliding through the room.  I would so love to dress up for and attend an actual Viennese waltz -- it's on the bucket list, not near the top, but definitely on there.
Now the puppet making?  I didn't enjoy it nearly as much.  And don't even get me started on the dinner on the last night.  The guy who owned the restaurant?  Oh my.  There are no words for how *odd* he was.  There were times when I wondered if we were going to ever get out of his basement of weird and bizarre things.  And the hats he made us wear?  Awful.  I think the guides were trying to move us along but he wasn't having any of it.  They literally lost total control of him.  I believe they may have changed dinner on the last night and honestly anything would be better IMHO.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> It sounds like I am in the minority but I LOVED the waltz lesson.  How often am I ever going to get a lesson on the Viennese waltz while in Vienna?  I'm thinking maybe never again.  I enjoyed the flow and rhythm and felt like I was gliding through the room.  I would so love to dress up for and attend an actual Viennese waltz -- it's on the bucket list, not near the top, but definitely on there.
> Now the puppet making?  I didn't enjoy it nearly as much.  And don't even get me started on the dinner on the last night.  The guy who owned the restaurant?  Oh my.  There are no words for how *odd* he was.  There were times when I wondered if we were going to ever get out of his basement of weird and bizarre things.  And the hats he made us wear?  Awful.  I think the guides were trying to move us along but he wasn't having any of it.  They literally lost total control of him.  I believe they may have changed dinner on the last night and honestly anything would be better IMHO.



I've done the Viennese Waltz, having taking ballroom lessons so didn't see the need to take the lesson in Vienna and my mom really wasn't into it so we opted to do our own thing. Plus the Riding School was on our bucket list so we wanted to spend more time there and not be rushed through shopping. As for the puppets, I can't speak to that. I was so disappointed in our tour of Schonbrunn that my mom told the guides we were done with the tour for the day and we stayed at the palace on our own and did the full audio tour and toured the extensive grounds. We even did a carriage ride around the grounds. 

As for the last dinner, I believe they did move it to a different restaurant. My memory of that night is a bit foggy as I was in the midst of a major meltdown/panic/anxiety attack brought about by one of the guides but I do remember a room on the main floor with signatures on the walls but no weird hats or anything. Our last dinner was such a horrible experience, which was not the fault of the restaurant, that we wish we'd never gone. We should have gone back to the steakhouse at the Ritz instead. Although if we ever do make it back to Vienna, which I am hoping to do, we would like to dine in that final dinner restaurant to actually enjoy the restaurant for itself. We'll just make sure it's not on a night when ABD is there. One experience with them in that restaurant was enough.


----------



## SingingMom

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> It sounds like I am in the minority but I LOVED the waltz lesson.  How often am I ever going to get a lesson on the Viennese waltz while in Vienna?  I'm thinking maybe never again.  I enjoyed the flow and rhythm and felt like I was gliding through the room.  I would so love to dress up for and attend an actual Viennese waltz -- it's on the bucket list, not near the top, but definitely on there.
> Now the puppet making?  I didn't enjoy it nearly as much.  And don't even get me started on the dinner on the last night.  The guy who owned the restaurant?  Oh my.  There are no words for how *odd* he was.  There were times when I wondered if we were going to ever get out of his basement of weird and bizarre things.  And the hats he made us wear?  Awful.  I think the guides were trying to move us along but he wasn't having any of it.  They literally lost total control of him.  I believe they may have changed dinner on the last night and honestly anything would be better IMHO.



The reason we didn't care for the waltz lesson was the room was unbearably *HOT.*  Loved watching the professional dancers and it was fine for a few steps to try, but it got to the point I had to sit down I was so overheated.  DD had an instructor who was EXTREMELY serious, and extremely sweaty.  She tried her best, but after he kept sternly correcting her, all she could think of was how to get some fresh air, since he apparently was less than fragrant!  

The marionette making was interesting, but they are still in the shipping packaging, three years later.  

They have changed the dinner location - probably BECAUSE of the owner.  _*"There are no words for how odd he was"*_ - is a perfect way to describe him!! 

Unfortunately we didn't get to tour the Riding School because there was a special Gala going on - but we definitely want to return to Vienna.  I'd even do Central Europe ABD again -  The Sound of Music time was priceless for us.


----------



## CrazyZeus1

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> I think ABD is a great tour company - for families. Not for adults who don't want to travel with children.



I couldn't disagree more     We are about to take our 7th ABD together with a grown Mom/Daughter pair that we met on our very first ABD 14 trips ago.  The  majority of our trips are adults only... my son many times has been the only young person.  In China he was the ONLY kid in our group of 30+.  And when he's grown and not traveling with us, we'll still take the ABDs just the two of us!  Cooking activities are on of our favorite things... let me get my hands in some dough and make pretzels.  We do that here at home. hahaha


----------



## CrazyZeus1

SingingMom said:


> The reason we didn't care for the waltz lesson was the room was unbearably *HOT.*  Loved watching the professional dancers and it was fine for a few steps to try, but it got to the point I had to sit down I was so overheated.  DD had an instructor who was EXTREMELY serious, and extremely sweaty.  She tried her best, but after he kept sternly correcting her, all she could think of was how to get some fresh air, since he apparently was less than fragrant!
> 
> The marionette making was interesting, but they are still in the shipping packaging, three years later.
> 
> They have changed the dinner location - probably BECAUSE of the owner.  _*"There are no words for how odd he was"*_ - is a perfect way to describe him!!
> 
> Unfortunately we didn't get to tour the Riding School because there was a special Gala going on - but we definitely want to return to Vienna.  I'd even do Central Europe ABD again -  The Sound of Music time was priceless for us.


We booked the Central Europe trip for next summer just so I can get my fill of Sound of Music nostalgia!  <3 <3 <3


----------



## CrazyZeus1

Here we are with our favorite travel buddies on the China ABD in October!  <3  They said they like the family adventures best even though one is a lawyer and the other a retired school teacher   They don't travel with kids but we've done a bunch of ABDs together (we get to see them next week on the Rhine and I can't wait!)


----------



## carpenta

CrazyZeus1 said:


> We booked the Central Europe trip for next summer just so I can get my fill of Sound of Music nostalgia!  <3 <3 <3[/QUOT
> 
> The last Von Trapp sibling just passed away up here in Vermont. Their Von Trapp lodge is really nice in Stowe Vermont and the grandson now brews their own label beer up there. The food in the restaurant is really good and the beer has an Austrian flair. You will love Saltzburg. Beautiful city.


----------



## MakiraMarlena

my last ABD (adult trip) had 35 guests and at 53 I was within the youngest 10. Probably within the youngest 6 or 7.


----------



## SingingMom

CrazyZeus1 said:


> We booked the Central Europe trip for next summer just so I can get my fill of Sound of Music nostalgia!  <3 <3 <3


If you love Sound of Music, you will be thrilled!  I wish we had more time in Salzburg - it was so beautiful.  It was so much fun to watch the movie again (we watch it every year!) after being there!  The "I have Confidence" and "Do-re-mi" scenes always bring "we were there!  we were there!" shouts from DD and I.


----------



## Calfan

Just wanted to share that I received a super nice gift from Nat Geo yesterday.  It's a copy of t their hard back "Covers" book that includes pictures of some of Nat Geo's most iconic magazine covers.  I'm not positive, but I think it's a gift they sent to travelers in their loyalty program (who have taken at least three Nat Geo trips) who traveled with them in 2017.  I've included a picture of the book.  I thought it was a really nice touch.  Also, both CaliforniaGirl09 and I received a bounceback offer of $500 off per person for up to two people for booking a trip before the end of the year.  My family already has a 2018 trip booked with Nat Geo, but I believe CaliforniaGirl is strongly considering the offer for a trip with her DD.  Because I have done three Nat Geo trips now with Patagonia completed, I will already be receiving $1,000 off of our 2018 Peru trip ($250 discount per person, even though my husband has only done one Nat Geo trip and my kids haven't done any yet!).


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Gorgeous book! Pretty awesome gift!


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

Calfan said:


> Just wanted to share that I received a super nice gift from Nat Geo yesterday.  It's a copy of t their hard back "Covers" book that includes pictures of some of Nat Geo's most iconic magazine covers.  I'm not positive, but I think it's a gift they sent to travelers in their loyalty program (who have taken at least three Nat Geo trips) who traveled with them in 2017.  I've included a picture of the book.  I thought it was a really nice touch.  Also, both CaliforniaGirl09 and I received a bounceback offer of $500 off per person for up to two people for booking a trip before the end of the year.  My family already has a 2018 trip booked with Nat Geo, but I believe CaliforniaGirl is strongly considering the offer for a trip with her DD.  Because I have done three Nat Geo trips now with Patagonia completed, I will already be receiving $1,000 off of our 2018 Peru trip ($250 discount per person, even though my husband has only done one Nat Geo trip and my kids haven't done any yet!).
> 
> View attachment 288778



Only one member of the household has to be a loyalty member in order for everyone in the house to take advantage of the discount. I asked about this when we were booking our South East Asia trip last year.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

I loved my second NatGeo hiking trip so much that I just signed up for my third! Dd18 and I will be doing Macchu Picchu Inn to Inn in late August. I already can't wait! I'll make sure to report back, but I've heard great things about this one from fellow travelers on my recent Patagonia trip. NatGeo gave me a great bounce back type of offer for $500 per person off if I booked by 12/31. Too good a deal to resist!


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> I loved my second NatGeo hiking trip so much that I just signed up for my third! Dd18 and I will be doing Macchu Picchu Inn to Inn in late August. I already can't wait! I'll make sure to report back, but I've heard great things about this one from fellow travelers on my recent Patagonia trip. NatGeo gave me a great bounce back type of offer for $500 per person off if I booked by 12/31. Too good a deal to resist!



We took advantage of a similar offer. They were offering $750 off the Zambia trip if we booked before the end of March 2017. Nowhere did it say we had to travel by the end of 2017 so we were able to apply it to our trip for 2018.


----------



## Dis_Yoda

Back in October, my husband and I did a week long tour with Tauck of the Amalfi Coast, Capri and Rome.  We did a small group tour (24 people) and we were the youngest there.  It was amazing. I would probably stick to the smaller groups so that it doesn't get much larger than 24 people.  More than that would just feel like too much to handle. 

The hotels were top of the line - staying at Le Agavi in Positano, Quisisana in Capri and Hotel Majestic in Rome.  I have no problems with any of them and would gladly stay at them again if life ever takes me back to those areas of the world! 

Highlights:
1) The after-hours tour of the Vatican Museums & Sistine Chapel.  It was only our group and another Tauck group there so we only have 50 people total in the Sistine Chapel with us.  We also got to walk through the hall of Tapestries, Maps, Statues and some other ancient relics. 
2) The in depth tour of Pompeii.  Italy requires that a local licensed guide is used for tour groups which helps provide character to the tour in addition than your Tauck tour guide.  The ones they used for the tour were excellent and you knew they had been doing this a while as they kept the group engaged and didn't need "flags" to keep a group together. 
3) The mix of planned activities and down time.  We felt there was enough going on each day that helped you really explore the area but you still got some on your own time in each city to do what mattered to you.  This allowed us to visit on our own the Bone Church in Rome, Villa Jorvis in Capri and St Maria Domo in Positano.  The major highlights were taken care of in manners where you didn't feel like you were being cattle herded and truly experience it.  Their planned activities forced me to see things we may have missed otherwise like the demonstration of the wood layering for furniture, Villa San Michelle, Villa Ruffalo,
4) Getting to walk through the Gladiator's Entrance at the Colosseum.  Not everyone gets to enter the colosseum that way and it gives you great perspective of it. 
5) After the tour, they sent us a Vatican Museum book which had some amazing photos and articles about their collection. 
6) Our tour guide.  She had been with the company for many years and was such a great storyteller without being over bearing.  She made sure she talked to everyone and found out interests about them. 

Lowlights: 
1) In Capri, we had a lecture in someone's private home about Italian Society.  This could be personal taste but I found it really odd to be in someone's home for them to talk about Italians when she's an ex-pat of another country.  The homemade wine she provided was good though! 
2) The restaurant post Pompeii.  The food was just bad!  I would have rather us traveled somewhere else but I get they want to feed you immediately after that walking tour of Pompeii since it did take a bit. 





















~~~

We've booked another Tauck Tour for 2019 - 13 Nights through Normandy, Brittany, Loire Valley and Paris.  We'll also will add a day where we stay at a winery partner with my husband's work and then head to Disneyland Paris as it should be the weekend of the Disneyland Paris Half Marathon.  The "Gift of Time" offer will be saving us $1300 for the additional night at the super fancy Paris hotel at the end of the trip.


----------



## met19

@Dis_Yoda  how did you take photos in the sistine chapel?


----------



## sayhello

met19 said:


> @Dis_Yoda  how did you take photos in the sistine chapel?


They allow you to do that on the private after-hours tours.

Sayhello


----------



## met19

sayhello said:


> They allow you to do that on the private after-hours tours.
> 
> Sayhello


Does abd offer a private after hours tour?


----------



## AquamarineSteph

met19 said:


> Does abd offer a private after hours tour?



They used to.  I have some great shots from there myself.  I thought I read on the ABD site that they still offer that?


----------



## Dis_Yoda

met19 said:


> @Dis_Yoda  how did you take photos in the sistine chapel?



For private after hours tours, you are allowed to take photos without flash. I know Tauck is one of the few companies that has that option (ABD may have it too)


----------



## sayhello

met19 said:


> Does abd offer a private after hours tour?


Yes, they do.  I've read many reports describing it, and it makes me super jealous   (I did the ABD add-on to the Med cruise, which included a regular Vatican/Sistine Chapel tour with a billion people and no photos).

From the ABD site:


> *Private After-Hours Tour of the Vatican Museums and Sistine Chapel**
> Experience an exclusive after-hours, privately guided tour of the Vatican Museum—home to masterpieces by the greatest artists in history in a collection spanning 4000 years. Also, be guided by a local expert through the Sistine Chapel where you can get an intimate look at Michelangelo's magnificent achievement.


Sayhello


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Dis_Yoda said:


> Back in October, my husband and I did a week long tour with Tauck of the Amalfi Coast, Capri and Rome.  We did a small group tour (24 people) and we were the youngest there.  It was amazing. I would probably stick to the smaller groups so that it doesn't get much larger than 24 people.  More than that would just feel like too much to handle.
> 
> The hotels were top of the line - staying at Le Agavi in Positano, Quisisana in Capri and Hotel Majestic in Rome.  I have no problems with any of them and would gladly stay at them again if life ever takes me back to those areas of the world!
> 
> Highlights:
> 1) The after-hours tour of the Vatican Museums & Sistine Chapel.  It was only our group and another Tauck group there so we only have 50 people total in the Sistine Chapel with us.  We also got to walk through the hall of Tapestries, Maps, Statues and some other ancient relics.
> 2) The in depth tour of Pompeii.  Italy requires that a local licensed guide is used for tour groups which helps provide character to the tour in addition than your Tauck tour guide.  The ones they used for the tour were excellent and you knew they had been doing this a while as they kept the group engaged and didn't need "flags" to keep a group together.
> 3) The mix of planned activities and down time.  We felt there was enough going on each day that helped you really explore the area but you still got some on your own time in each city to do what mattered to you.  This allowed us to visit on our own the Bone Church in Rome, Villa Jorvis in Capri and St Maria Domo in Positano.  The major highlights were taken care of in manners where you didn't feel like you were being cattle herded and truly experience it.  Their planned activities forced me to see things we may have missed otherwise like the demonstration of the wood layering for furniture, Villa San Michelle, Villa Ruffalo,
> 4) Getting to walk through the Gladiator's Entrance at the Colosseum.  Not everyone gets to enter the colosseum that way and it gives you great perspective of it.
> 5) After the tour, they sent us a Vatican Museum book which had some amazing photos and articles about their collection.
> 6) Our tour guide.  She had been with the company for many years and was such a great storyteller without being over bearing.  She made sure she talked to everyone and found out interests about them.
> 
> Lowlights:
> 1) In Capri, we had a lecture in someone's private home about Italian Society.  This could be personal taste but I found it really odd to be in someone's home for them to talk about Italians when she's an ex-pat of another country.  The homemade wine she provided was good though!
> 2) The restaurant post Pompeii.  The food was just bad!  I would have rather us traveled somewhere else but I get they want to feed you immediately after that walking tour of Pompeii since it did take a bit.
> 
> We've booked another Tauck Tour for 2019 - 13 Nights through Normandy, Brittany, Loire Valley and Paris.  We'll also will add a day where we stay at a winery partner with my husband's work and then head to Disneyland Paris as it should be the weekend of the Disneyland Paris Half Marathon.  The "Gift of Time" offer will be saving us $1300 for the additional night at the super fancy Paris hotel at the end of the trip.


 
Waving to DisYoda from another RunDisney thread person. Fun to see you posting over here. I really appreciate your taking the time to report back on the Tauck tour. I know many of us who do ABD are always intrigued by Tauck who seem to have very similar tours to ABD. I can't remember whether you've done an ABD before? Just wondering how much a factor you thought the guides were? Did you have one or two? One of the things that many people around here love about ABD is the fantastic guides. I've had excellent experiences so far with my Nat Geo trips--the guides were every bit as awesome as they've been on ABD and wondered how Tauck compared. LOL on you and hubby being the youngest there. That is one of the negatives for many around here with doing Tauck, although personally I like traveling with an older set. 

Too fun that you are doing RunDisney Paris. Calfan and I had talked about that, but I think we may end up pushing to next year with the full calendar of RunDisney events we have on the plate for next year in Orlando. We want to do Wine and Dine and WDW Half. I'm king of hoping they'll get all the kinks worked out in Paris by then. Can't wait to read your report on that!


----------



## Dis_Yoda

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> Waving to DisYoda from another RunDisney thread person. Fun to see you posting over here. I really appreciate your taking the time to report back on the Tauck tour. I know many of us who do ABD are always intrigued by Tauck who seem to have very similar tours to ABD. I can't remember whether you've done an ABD before? Just wondering how much a factor you thought the guides were? Did you have one or two? One of the things that many people around here love about ABD is the fantastic guides. I've had excellent experiences so far with my Nat Geo trips--the guides were every bit as awesome as they've been on ABD and wondered how Tauck compared. LOL on you and hubby being the youngest there. That is one of the negatives for many around here with doing Tauck, although personally I like traveling with an older set.
> 
> Too fun that you are doing RunDisney Paris. Calfan and I had talked about that, but I think we may end up pushing to next year with the full calendar of RunDisney events we have on the plate for next year in Orlando. We want to do Wine and Dine and WDW Half. I'm king of hoping they'll get all the kinks worked out in Paris by then. Can't wait to read your report on that!



Hi!  We have not done an ABD tour.  We had 1 guide that was with us the entire tour.  We would have other local guides join us at various towns or sights to give even more history or perspective to the tour - I think we had about 5 different ones throughout the tour.  Our main guide was fantastic; very helpful when you needed suggestions.  She tries to make sure that no one felt left out and that no one was having favoritism from her.  Very professional!  

We looked at National Geographic tours as well but my husband felt a lot of their tours that interested us were for after we get the major sites done in various countries.  

I don't mind traveling with the older set for the most part.  I think I posted about it some in my Dining Report for November but apparently we were oddities.  Here is the quote from there:  

"The majority of our tour were specialty doctors & their spouses, older lawyers & their spouses. These were the people that have done multiple Tauck tours. We did have a retired school administrator who was doing an one in the lifetime trip. My husband and I were the odd ones out since we're in our early 30s, no children (or plans for children) with normal professional jobs (Quality Engineer and Retail Manager) There wasn't a lot of common grounds there. We were friendly with the people we toured with but not people we would make life long friendships with. Apparently being a female engineer was an oddity to some of them and our non-trip related conversations revolved around that. I know that wasn't a typical career path for their generation, especially as a female. It will be interesting to see what happens on the tour in 2019 as with it being 13 days. We can do these types of trips once every two years with planning accordingly."

So if you push it to next year - that means you'll end up at RunDisney Paris with me in 2019!  They do have some kinks there - hopefully year 4 will be smooth!


----------



## aggiedog

We recently did a Road Scholar tour and while we were much younger than the average also, I was happy that the mix was not doctors and lawyers. (Full disclosure, I AM a doctor.) It was a great mix of careers from engineers to musicians to a Red Cross volunteer coordinator. Many of the women had their own careers, though mid everyone was retired at that point. What tied them together was an active curiosity of the world. I did in fact make a good friend and she and I are traveling the Canadian Rockies this Fall.  That said, they are not luxury tours, though we did have a fabulous guide 24/7.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Dis_Yoda said:


> Hi!  We have not done an ABD tour.  We had 1 guide that was with us the entire tour.  We would have other local guides join us at various towns or sights to give even more history or perspective to the tour - I think we had about 5 different ones throughout the tour.  Our main guide was fantastic; very helpful when you needed suggestions.  She tries to make sure that no one felt left out and that no one was having favoritism from her.  Very professional!
> 
> We looked at National Geographic tours as well but my husband felt a lot of their tours that interested us were for after we get the major sites done in various countries.
> 
> I don't mind traveling with the older set for the most part.  I think I posted about it some in my Dining Report for November but apparently we were oddities.  Here is the quote from there:
> 
> "The majority of our tour were specialty doctors & their spouses, older lawyers & their spouses. These were the people that have done multiple Tauck tours. We did have a retired school administrator who was doing an one in the lifetime trip. My husband and I were the odd ones out since we're in our early 30s, no children (or plans for children) with normal professional jobs (Quality Engineer and Retail Manager) There wasn't a lot of common grounds there. We were friendly with the people we toured with but not people we would make life long friendships with. Apparently being a female engineer was an oddity to some of them and our non-trip related conversations revolved around that. I know that wasn't a typical career path for their generation, especially as a female. It will be interesting to see what happens on the tour in 2019 as with it being 13 days. We can do these types of trips once every two years with planning accordingly."
> 
> So if you push it to next year - that means you'll end up at RunDisney Paris with me in 2019!  They do have some kinks there - hopefully year 4 will be smooth!



Thanks so much for the feedback on the guides for Tauck. Sounds great. We've loved out Nat Geo Adventure trips, but they are definitely very active and focused more on the countryside than the major historical sites. I know they have non-active tours, too, though that are more traditional. 

Very interesting on the older set comments. I would say that demographic is probably typical for the tours I've done that lean toward an older crowd. As a former lawyer though it doesn't bother me, LOL. 

I totally read your RunDisney post wrong--I was thinking you were doing it this year. Awesome! It would be fun to connect in Paris  I suspect we'll be 2019 unless we do something last minute. The whole medal fiasco put me off a little, and it's frustrating to have to book a package to guarantee bibs. But I digress...! Thank you for the awesome feedback. Hope to cross paths at a RunDisney event soon.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> Thanks so much for the feedback on the guides for Tauck. Sounds great. We've loved out Nat Geo Adventure trips, but they are definitely very active and focused more on the countryside than the major historical sites. I know they have non-active tours, too, though that are more traditional.
> 
> Very interesting on the older set comments. I would say that demographic is probably typical for the tours I've done that lean toward an older crowd. As a former lawyer though it doesn't bother me, LOL.
> 
> I totally read your RunDisney post wrong--I was thinking you were doing it this year. Awesome! It would be fun to connect in Paris  I suspect we'll be 2019 unless we do something last minute. The whole medal fiasco put me off a little, and it's frustrating to have to book a package to guarantee bibs. But I digress...! Thank you for the awesome feedback. Hope to cross paths at a RunDisney event soon.



Not all of the Nat Geo active trips are just countryside focused. The walking trips yes, but my Southeast Asia trip was an active adventure and we did a LOT of cultural and historical stuff and really very little "active" stuff for a 13 day trip. Over 13 days we cycled in Hue, kayaked in Ha Long Bay, hiked in Laos and cycled in Siem Reap. And those were not all day things. Cycling in Hue was at most 3 hours with a break in the middle (we had 2 because 2 people needed first aid). Kayaking was in 2 sessions, a morning and afternoon. You could do one or both. The hike was about 3 hours with a break in the middle. The final bike ride was about 1.5 hours with a break in the middle. For the bike rides, you had the option to either cycle on your own with the group or in Vietnam you could go with a motorcycle driver (option my mom and I took) and in Siem Reap, you could opt to take a tuk tuk (again what we opted for). You also had the option of not going at all and just meeting us at the next point. Someone in our group did this in Hue. She opted to go running along the Perfume River instead of cycling and the guides arranged for her to meet us at the final stop on the cycling tour. Other than those 4 "activities", everything else was site seeing on foot or going by coach or small bus to get to the sites and then touring. We toured Saigon on foot, seeing the major historical sites. We visited the historic Imperial Palace in Hue. The Ho Chi Minh Mausoleum and Temple of Literature in Hanoi. We toured Luang Prabang and some of the major temples there. We visited all of the important temples in Siem Reap and even some of the lesser known, less visited temples.


----------



## Calfan

We just returned from our first trip with Austin Adventures.  We did their Yellowstone Family Winter Trip, and it was a fantastic trip.  I would definitely book another trip with them.  In fact, I’m actively considering booking with Austin Adventures for Africa in 2019 to take advantage of a 10% bounce back discount if we book another trip within 30 days of returning home.  Depending on which Africa trip we choose, this discount could amount to a savings of $3,000 to $4,000 for our family of four!  And, as a past Austin Adventures traveler, one perk is that new bookings are fully refundable up to 45 days out, so it would essentially be a risk-free booking if we go ahead. 

One interesting thing is that even though this was technically a family trip, my kids (13 and 15) were the only actual minors on the trip.  There was another family of four with 20- and 23-year-old sons, both in college.  The other guests were three adult couples, and we had one other solo adult traveler, who I would guess is in her 30s.  It was a great group of interesting people, and my kids had no issue at all blending in.  It made me realize that we can branch out for our future trips and don’t have to consider only family trips going forward.

Here are the things I really really liked about our Austin Adventures trip:

--We had 15 guests and 3 full-time guides.  (Austin’s stated guest to guide ratio is 6:1, so our ratio was right in line with  that.)  So vastly different from the 2 guides we had for 49 guests on our ABD Baltics cruise add-on, for example.  All three guides currently live in Montana (where the trip started and ended), and each has guided in Yellowstone for multiple years, so they were very knowledgeable about the area, including Yellowstone’s geothermal features and history, the flora and fauna of the region, etc.  They were friendly, personable and enthusiastic, but somehow also low-key, which I really really liked.  They handled all of the logistics, including baggage handling. (The bags were waiting in our rooms at the Old Faithful Snow Lodge when we got to our rooms there, and they were delivered to our individual cabins at the 320 Guest Ranch within about 3 minutes of our arrival there, so no waiting at all for bags.)  They also participated in all of our activities and meals and were our drivers in the Austin Adventures dedicated vans that we used when we weren’t in Yellowstone itself.

--The trip was very active (both from a physical activity standpoint and from the standpoint of having minimal down time), including cross country skiing, snow shoeing, hiking/walking, dog sledding and a sleigh ride.  We had one afternoon on our own at the Old Faithful Snow Lodge, but all of the other days were pretty full of activities.  We’d typically have an hour and a half or a little longer to relax, shower, etc. before dinner each day.  The trip was really well planned out with a minimum of dead/transition time, but it never felt like the guides were rushing us or herding us around.  There was plenty of time to stop to take pictures of the wildlife we saw (which included many many bison, as well as elk, coyotes, Trumpeter Swans and bald eagles, and grizzlies and wolves at our stop at the Grizzly & Wolf Discovery Center in West Yellowstone, MT) or to have the guides answer any questions about what we were seeing/doing.

--We received lots of Austin Adventures swag, starting with these water bottles when we first met as a group in Bozeman, MT before starting out for Yellowstone:

 

On our first night at the Old Faithful Snow Lodge, these draw string backpacks were waiting for us in our rooms after dinner, filled with the goodies shown:

 

 

After our farewell dinner, we all received these t-shirts (they are navy, even though they look black in the pics):

    

We also received flash drives of the slide show the guides put together for our farewell dinner (similar to what ABD now does).

We did an evening Steam, Stars and Soundscapes tour while in Yellowstone, and everyone got to take home these travel mugs that were used for hot chocolate during the tour:

 

--The guides were constantly pulling out trays of goodies or pouring hot drinks in the middle of cross country skiing or hiking or snow shoeing.  These included hot chocolate and hot apple cider for the drinks and trays of chocolate chip cookies + peppermint bark, oranges + salted caramel chocolates, dried fruit arranged in the shape of a morning glory flower for our cross country ski to Morning Glory Pool in Yellowstone, salted caramel pretzels, etc.  During our evening tour in Yellowstone, they brought along bottles of Baileys and Peppermint Schnapps for the adults to supplement our hot chocolate.  On New Year’s Eve, they brought bottles of bubbly to our dinner tables. 

--All meals except for one lunch were included.  Non-alcoholic beverages were also included, including espresso type drinks at our lunch in Big Sky, Montana.  (Alcohol was extra, except for the examples above and unlimited adult coffees or hot chocolates on our evening sleigh ride in Big Sky.)

All in all, a really great, well-run trip, and I was very impressed with Austin Adventures.  I think it is very likely that we will be traveling with them again.  I’m happy to answer any specific questions.


----------



## carpenta

Sound wonderful! Glad you had a great trip. We did Yellowstone with Nat. Geo and loved the use of the vans rather than the 40+ bus. Just bookmarked the Austin website and thanks for the "heads up". Happy New Year.


----------



## Calfan

I neglected to mention that our group size of 15 was apparently one of the larger groups for an Austin Adventures trip, at least according to the alumni in our group. That’s another thing I like about them as a tour provider. I’m just done with group trips with over 20 or 25 travelers. Based on my Nat Gep hiking trip experiences, my Thomson Family Adventures trip to China and now this Austin Adventures Yellowstone trip, I’d say 10-15 guests is my ideal size for group travel.  The other thing I should have pointed out is that, out of the 6 parties on our Yellowstone trip, 4 were repeat Austin Adventures travelers, and only 2 (including my party) were newbies. One couple had done something like 15 Austin Adventures trips, and the other family in our group had done 5 before Yellowstone.  I think that speaks well for them as a provider and also for their loyalty program.


----------



## carpenta

Now you're really forcing me to book with Austin.....WOW! Sounds ideal.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Calfan said:


> We just returned from our first trip with Austin Adventures.  We did their Yellowstone Family Winter Trip, and it was a fantastic trip.  I would definitely book another trip with them.  In fact, I’m actively considering booking with Austin Adventures for Africa in 2019 to take advantage of a 10% bounce back discount if we book another trip within 30 days of returning home.  Depending on which Africa trip we choose, this discount could amount to a savings of $3,000 to $4,000 for our family of four!  And, as a past Austin Adventures traveler, one perk is that new bookings are fully refundable up to 45 days out, so it would essentially be a risk-free booking if we go ahead.
> 
> One interesting thing is that even though this was technically a family trip, my kids (13 and 15) were the only actual minors on the trip.  There was another family of four with 20- and 23-year-old sons, both in college.  The other guests were three adult couples, and we had one other solo adult traveler, who I would guess is in her 30s.  It was a great group of interesting people, and my kids had no issue at all blending in.  It made me realize that we can branch out for our future trips and don’t have to consider only family trips going forward.
> 
> Here are the things I really really liked about our Austin Adventures trip:
> 
> --We had 15 guests and 3 full-time guides.  (Austin’s stated guest to guide ratio is 6:1, so our ratio was right in line with  that.)  So vastly different from the 2 guides we had for 49 guests on our ABD Baltics cruise add-on, for example.  All three guides currently live in Montana (where the trip started and ended), and each has guided in Yellowstone for multiple years, so they were very knowledgeable about the area, including Yellowstone’s geothermal features and history, the flora and fauna of the region, etc.  They were friendly, personable and enthusiastic, but somehow also low-key, which I really really liked.  They handled all of the logistics, including baggage handling. (The bags were waiting in our rooms at the Old Faithful Snow Lodge when we got to our rooms there, and they were delivered to our individual cabins at the 320 Guest Ranch within about 3 minutes of our arrival there, so no waiting at all for bags.)  They also participated in all of our activities and meals and were our drivers in the Austin Adventures dedicated vans that we used when we weren’t in Yellowstone itself.
> 
> --The trip was very active (both from a physical activity standpoint and from the standpoint of having minimal down time), including cross country skiing, snow shoeing, hiking/walking, dog sledding and a sleigh ride.  We had one afternoon on our own at the Old Faithful Snow Lodge, but all of the other days were pretty full of activities.  We’d typically have an hour and a half or a little longer to relax, shower, etc. before dinner each day.  The trip was really well planned out with a minimum of dead/transition time, but it never felt like the guides were rushing us or herding us around.  There was plenty of time to stop to take pictures of the wildlife we saw (which included many many bison, as well as elk, coyotes, Trumpeter Swans and bald eagles, and grizzlies and wolves at our stop at the Grizzly & Wolf Discovery Center in West Yellowstone, MT) or to have the guides answer any questions about what we were seeing/doing.
> 
> --We received lots of Austin Adventures swag, starting with these water bottles when we first met as a group in Bozeman, MT before starting out for Yellowstone:
> 
> View attachment 292549
> 
> On our first night at the Old Faithful Snow Lodge, these draw string backpacks were waiting for us in our rooms after dinner, filled with the goodies shown:
> 
> View attachment 292553
> 
> View attachment 292554
> 
> After our farewell dinner, we all received these t-shirts (they are navy, even though they look black in the pics):
> 
> View attachment 292555 View attachment 292556 View attachment 292557 View attachment 292558
> 
> 
> 
> We also received flash drives of the slide show the guides put together for our farewell dinner (similar to what ABD now does).
> 
> We did an evening Steam, Stars and Soundscapes tour while in Yellowstone, and everyone got to take home these travel mugs that were used for hot chocolate during the tour:
> 
> View attachment 292559
> 
> --The guides were constantly pulling out trays of goodies or pouring hot drinks in the middle of cross country skiing or hiking or snow shoeing.  These included hot chocolate and hot apple cider for the drinks and trays of chocolate chip cookies + peppermint bark, oranges + salted caramel chocolates, dried fruit arranged in the shape of a morning glory flower for our cross country ski to Morning Glory Pool in Yellowstone, salted caramel pretzels, etc.  During our evening tour in Yellowstone, they brought along bottles of Baileys and Peppermint Schnapps for the adults to supplement our hot chocolate.  On New Year’s Eve, they brought bottles of bubbly to our dinner tables.
> 
> --All meals except for one lunch were included.  Non-alcoholic beverages were also included, including espresso type drinks at our lunch in Big Sky, Montana.  (Alcohol was extra, except for the examples above and unlimited adult coffees or hot chocolates on our evening sleigh ride in Big Sky.)
> 
> All in all, a really great, well-run trip, and I was very impressed with Austin Adventures.  I think it is very likely that we will be traveling with them again.  I’m happy to answer any specific questions.



WOW!!! Love all the swag. Compared to ABDs pathetic zip pouches for China, I'm really impressed. Funny how something so small can make sure a great/negative impression. I almost feel that if ABD is going to be so cheap they should just not do swag anymore. Go big or go home, and it looks like AA went big. Great trip report and sounds like an amazing trip. Your FB pictures looked awesome. This trip will definitely be on our list at some point. 3 guides for 15 guests is pretty amazing, and I love all the active activities. Looking forward to getting even more details from you next week in DLR


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

P.S. I meant to ask if you can rank the companies yet. I suspect Nat Geo is hard to rate since it's an adventure trip v. a family trip, but I'm guessing among the other three ABD is 3rd, but what about AA and Thompson for 1 & 2 or not enough data yet?


----------



## acndis

Calfan said:


> I neglected to mention that our group size of 15 was apparently one of the larger groups for an Austin Adventures trip, at least according to the alumni in our group. That’s another thing I like about them as a tour provider. I’m just done with group trips with over 20 or 25 travelers. Based on my Nat Gep hiking trip experiences, my Thomson Family Adventures trip to China and now this Austin Adventures Yellowstone trip, I’d say 10-15 guests is my ideal size for group travel.  The other thing I should have pointed out is that, out of the 6 parties on our Yellowstone trip, 4 were repeat Austin Adventures travelers, and only 2 (including my party) were newbies. One couple had done something like 15 Austin Adventures trips, and the other family in our group had done 5 before Yellowstone.  I think that speaks well for them as a provider and also for their loyalty program.


We are doing Belize with them this summer and I can’t wait!


----------



## Calfan

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> P.S. I meant to ask if you can rank the companies yet. I suspect Nat Geo is hard to rate since it's an adventure trip v. a family trip, but I'm guessing among the other three ABD is 3rd, but what about AA and Thompson for 1 & 2 or not enough data yet?



Our AA and Thomson trips were pretty different, so it’s hard to rank them head to head, but I guess based on my limited sample size, I’d give AA the nod based on the special guide touches, and the generous swag, lol. Plus the re-booking discount.  You are right that I would put ABD third based on the group sizes being much larger than I’d like (34, 42 and 49 for the three ABDs I’ve done so far) and the poor guide to guest ratio in comparison to the others (plus the guides just being a lot more knowledgeable with AA and Thomson — I adore Hanni and Zoe, but neither of them knew a thing about Scotland, e.g.). Nat Geo is pretty much on its own, but I’ll be able to do a better comparison with them for a trip with the whole family after Peru this summer.


----------



## Calfan

Calfan said:


> Our AA and Thomson trips were pretty different, so it’s hard to rank them head to head, but I guess based on my limited sample size, I’d give AA the nod based on the special guide touches, and the generous swag, lol. Plus the re-booking discount.  You are right that I would put ABD third based on the group sizes being much larger than I’d like (34, 42 and 49 for the three ABDs I’ve done so far) and the poor guide to guest ratio in comparison to the others (plus the guides just being a lot more knowledgeable with AA and Thomson — I adore Hanni and Zoe, but neither of them knew a thing about Scotland, e.g.). Nat Geo is pretty much on its own, but I’ll be able to do a better comparison with them for a trip with the whole family after Peru this summer.



I should have made the point above that, so far at least, my experiences with Nat Geo, AA and Thomson have been positive and similar enough that my approach is likely to be to decide among them based on which itinerary I like best for a particular location. I will say, though, that AA’s 10% re-booking discount could definitely push them over the edge where itineraries are close. I’ve also been looking at Natural Habitat as a provider, but they are the priciest among ABD, Thomson and AA, so those might be few and far between.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Calfan said:


> Our AA and Thomson trips were pretty different, so it’s hard to rank them head to head, but I guess based on my limited sample size, I’d give AA the nod based on the special guide touches, and the generous swag, lol. Plus the re-booking discount.  You are right that I would put ABD third based on the group sizes being much larger than I’d like (34, 42 and 49 for the three ABDs I’ve done so far) and the poor guide to guest ratio in comparison to the others (plus the guides just being a lot more knowledgeable with AA and Thomson — I adore Hanni and Zoe, but neither of them knew a thing about Scotland, e.g.). Nat Geo is pretty much on its own, but I’ll be able to do a better comparison with them for a trip with the whole family after Peru this summer.


This is great--thanks for laying this all out. Makes total sense. Number is huge to me too, so I suspect I will be branching out or waiting last minute for ABD when I know how many are signed up and the trip will go. Refundable until 45 days out for aa is pretty amazing too (meant to comment on that). Please don't remind me of that 49. I get upset just thinking about it. I think the only trip with ABD that I would be willing to sign up for way ahead of time is Japan because of the itinerary/park access--I really hope the rumors about that trip are true.


----------



## WishUponAStarryNight

Calfan said:


> I neglected to mention that our group size of 15 was apparently one of the larger groups for an Austin Adventures trip, at least according to the alumni in our group. That’s another thing I like about them as a tour provider. I’m just done with group trips with over 20 or 25 travelers. Based on my Nat Gep hiking trip experiences, my Thomson Family Adventures trip to China and now this Austin Adventures Yellowstone trip, I’d say 10-15 guests is my ideal size for group travel.  The other thing I should have pointed out is that, out of the 6 parties on our Yellowstone trip, 4 were repeat Austin Adventures travelers, and only 2 (including my party) were newbies. One couple had done something like 15 Austin Adventures trips, and the other family in our group had done 5 before Yellowstone.  I think that speaks well for them as a provider and also for their loyalty program.


Thank you so much! I was hoping you’d report back. We’re going to Yellowstone with AA in June and your review has made me even more excited. Sounds like a great trip! Love the re-booking discount, too. I’ve been looking at their other itineraries hoping we’d like our first trip so much we’d want to travel with them again.


----------



## sayhello

I'll have to look into Austin Adventures.  See whether I like their itineraries or not.  What you've described sounds good to me, but ultimately, it's the itinerary & the Guides that make my decision.  It's nice they have so many Guides (Backroads does, too) because I just can't see doing a trip with one Guide, especially if that Guide is not allowed to eat meals with us (I've been told that's how Tauck works).  The NatGeo trips just seem too physical and not enough cultural for me, and Thompson doesn't want me.  Maybe AA will turn out to be the ABD alternative that works for me...

Sayhello


----------



## Dis_Yoda

sayhello said:


> I'll have to look into Austin Adventures.  See whether I like their itineraries or not.  What you've described sounds good to me, but ultimately, it's the itinerary & the Guides that make my decision.  It's nice they have so many Guides (Backroads does, too) because I just can't see doing a trip with one Guide, especially if that Guide is not allowed to eat meals with us (I've been told that's how Tauck works).  The NatGeo trips just seem too physical and not enough cultural for me, and Thompson doesn't want me.  Maybe AA will turn out to be the ABD alternative that works for me...
> 
> Sayhello



That is true with Tauck that guides won’t eat at your table.  I still felt we got quality time with her though


----------



## Calfan

sayhello said:


> I'll have to look into Austin Adventures.  See whether I like their itineraries or not.  What you've described sounds good to me, but ultimately, it's the itinerary & the Guides that make my decision.  It's nice they have so many Guides (Backroads does, too) because I just can't see doing a trip with one Guide, especially if that Guide is not allowed to eat meals with us (I've been told that's how Tauck works).  The NatGeo trips just seem too physical and not enough cultural for me, and Thompson doesn't want me.  Maybe AA will turn out to be the ABD alternative that works for me...
> 
> Sayhello



Based on the makeup of our group for Yellowstone, I think you would be welcomed as a solo adult traveler


----------



## sayhello

Calfan said:


> Based on the makeup of our group for Yellowstone, I think you would be welcomed as a solo adult traveler


Good to hear!  

Sayhello


----------



## carpenta

Just returned from Costa Rica with Tauck I was very impressed with our guides. The main guide was a native Costa Rican who knew so much history of his country and our associate guide was also born and raised in country. They did eat on occasion with the group but mostly were taking care of logistics and ticketing issues on computers or phones. The insights we got from their innate knowledge added so much more to our trip than the social aspect of eating together. IMO I'll take a native guide anytime.


----------



## Calfan

carpenta said:


> Just returned from Costa Rica with Tauck I was very impressed with our guides. The main guide was a native Costa Rican who knew so much history of his country and our associate guide was also born and raised in country. They did eat on occasion with the group but mostly were taking care of logistics and ticketing issues on computers or phones. The insights we got from their innate knowledge added so much more to our trip than the social aspect of eating together. IMO I'll take a native guide anytime.



This is similar to our experience with Thomson Family Adventures in China.


----------



## Ava

Calfan said:


> We just returned from our first trip with Austin Adventures.  We did their Yellowstone Family Winter Trip, and it was a fantastic trip.  I would definitely book another trip with them.  In fact, I’m actively considering booking with Austin Adventures for Africa in 2019 to take advantage of a 10% bounce back discount if we book another trip within 30 days of returning home.  Depending on which Africa trip we choose, this discount could amount to a savings of $3,000 to $4,000 for our family of four!  And, as a past Austin Adventures traveler, one perk is that new bookings are fully refundable up to 45 days out, so it would essentially be a risk-free booking if we go ahead.
> 
> One interesting thing is that even though this was technically a family trip, my kids (13 and 15) were the only actual minors on the trip.  There was another family of four with 20- and 23-year-old sons, both in college.  The other guests were three adult couples, and we had one other solo adult traveler, who I would guess is in her 30s.  It was a great group of interesting people, and my kids had no issue at all blending in.  It made me realize that we can branch out for our future trips and don’t have to consider only family trips going forward.
> 
> Here are the things I really really liked about our Austin Adventures trip:
> 
> --We had 15 guests and 3 full-time guides.  (Austin’s stated guest to guide ratio is 6:1, so our ratio was right in line with  that.)  So vastly different from the 2 guides we had for 49 guests on our ABD Baltics cruise add-on, for example.  All three guides currently live in Montana (where the trip started and ended), and each has guided in Yellowstone for multiple years, so they were very knowledgeable about the area, including Yellowstone’s geothermal features and history, the flora and fauna of the region, etc.  They were friendly, personable and enthusiastic, but somehow also low-key, which I really really liked.  They handled all of the logistics, including baggage handling. (The bags were waiting in our rooms at the Old Faithful Snow Lodge when we got to our rooms there, and they were delivered to our individual cabins at the 320 Guest Ranch within about 3 minutes of our arrival there, so no waiting at all for bags.)  They also participated in all of our activities and meals and were our drivers in the Austin Adventures dedicated vans that we used when we weren’t in Yellowstone itself.
> 
> --The trip was very active (both from a physical activity standpoint and from the standpoint of having minimal down time), including cross country skiing, snow shoeing, hiking/walking, dog sledding and a sleigh ride.  We had one afternoon on our own at the Old Faithful Snow Lodge, but all of the other days were pretty full of activities.  We’d typically have an hour and a half or a little longer to relax, shower, etc. before dinner each day.  The trip was really well planned out with a minimum of dead/transition time, but it never felt like the guides were rushing us or herding us around.  There was plenty of time to stop to take pictures of the wildlife we saw (which included many many bison, as well as elk, coyotes, Trumpeter Swans and bald eagles, and grizzlies and wolves at our stop at the Grizzly & Wolf Discovery Center in West Yellowstone, MT) or to have the guides answer any questions about what we were seeing/doing.
> 
> --We received lots of Austin Adventures swag, starting with these water bottles when we first met as a group in Bozeman, MT before starting out for Yellowstone:
> 
> View attachment 292549
> 
> On our first night at the Old Faithful Snow Lodge, these draw string backpacks were waiting for us in our rooms after dinner, filled with the goodies shown:
> 
> View attachment 292553
> 
> View attachment 292554
> 
> After our farewell dinner, we all received these t-shirts (they are navy, even though they look black in the pics):
> 
> View attachment 292555 View attachment 292556 View attachment 292557 View attachment 292558
> 
> We also received flash drives of the slide show the guides put together for our farewell dinner (similar to what ABD now does).
> 
> We did an evening Steam, Stars and Soundscapes tour while in Yellowstone, and everyone got to take home these travel mugs that were used for hot chocolate during the tour:
> 
> View attachment 292559
> 
> --The guides were constantly pulling out trays of goodies or pouring hot drinks in the middle of cross country skiing or hiking or snow shoeing.  These included hot chocolate and hot apple cider for the drinks and trays of chocolate chip cookies + peppermint bark, oranges + salted caramel chocolates, dried fruit arranged in the shape of a morning glory flower for our cross country ski to Morning Glory Pool in Yellowstone, salted caramel pretzels, etc.  During our evening tour in Yellowstone, they brought along bottles of Baileys and Peppermint Schnapps for the adults to supplement our hot chocolate.  On New Year’s Eve, they brought bottles of bubbly to our dinner tables.
> 
> --All meals except for one lunch were included.  Non-alcoholic beverages were also included, including espresso type drinks at our lunch in Big Sky, Montana.  (Alcohol was extra, except for the examples above and unlimited adult coffees or hot chocolates on our evening sleigh ride in Big Sky.)
> 
> All in all, a really great, well-run trip, and I was very impressed with Austin Adventures.  I think it is very likely that we will be traveling with them again.  I’m happy to answer any specific questions.


Thank you for the review! I want to visit the national parks, but would like to go with a tour group as planning an outdoor/nature-focused trip is completely out of my comfort zone. My youngest is still a couple years too young to really do an active trip but I bookmarked Austin Adventures website as they seemed really good. Glad to hear that they actually are.


----------



## acndis

Calfan said:


> We just returned from our first trip with Austin Adventures. We did their Yellowstone Family Winter Trip, and it was a fantastic trip. I would definitely book another trip with them. In fact, I’m actively considering booking with Austin Adventures for Africa in 2019 to take advantage of a 10% bounce back discount if we book another trip within 30 days of returning home. Depending on which Africa trip we choose, this discount could amount to a savings of $3,000 to $4,000 for our family of four! And, as a past Austin Adventures traveler, one perk is that new bookings are fully refundable up to 45 days out, so it would essentially be a risk-free booking if we go ahead.



How did the bounceback work?  I am sort of counting on it as we are seriously thinking of booking Costa Rica with them for December 2019 if we don't have a disaster in Belize this summer (I am sure we won't).  I used to be able to find a reference to the bounceback on the website but can't find it now.  Did they tell you on the trip?


----------



## Calfan

acndis said:


> How did the bounceback work?  I am sort of counting on it as we are seriously thinking of booking Costa Rica with them for December 2019 if we don't have a disaster in Belize this summer (I am sure we won't).  I used to be able to find a reference to the bounceback on the website but can't find it now.  Did they tell you on the trip?



We received a letter after the trip (it might even have been waiting when we got home) that offered the 10% discount if we book another trip by Feb. 3 (our trip ended on Jan. 4).  I've got Austin Adventures researching pricing and dates for a 2019 Africa trip.  They have confirmed the discount is available for any new booking with them, whether 2018, 2019, etc.


----------



## WishUponAStarryNight

As an FYI for folks considering AA, I had to switch the date of our Yellowstone trip. We’re now on a full trip - 18 people, 3 guides. Our group includes 7 kids between the ages of 7 and 12. Obviously demographics will vary trip to trip, but I thought it might be helpful to others to get a sense of what the trip might look like.


----------



## Jess_S

Is anyone familiar with Vantage Deluxe World Travel? I just saw an ad for them and I'm curious.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

Jess_S said:


> Is anyone familiar with Vantage Deluxe World Travel? I just saw an ad for them and I'm curious.



Never heard of them. Are they a tour operator? We're leaning more to in-country operators for travel in the future. Our most recent experience with Nat Geo has not been the best and we're thinking we might have better luck with people who actually know the countries we're interested in visiting because they live there. We're seriously considering a trip to France and I've found a really good in-country operator based in the Loire Valley who specializes in custom tours throughout France. I also have a recommendation for a really good in-country operator for Vietnam courtesy of our guide on our South East Asia trip last year.


----------



## Jess_S

They are a tour operator. They look to be US based and have a mix of land and river cruise tours up on their website. To be honest, my interest was sparked by the fact that they have their headquarters here in Boston -- which isn't a particularly good reason to use a tour company -- but it made me curious to learn more.


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

Jess_S said:


> They are a tour operator. They look to be US based and have a mix of land and river cruise tours up on their website. To be honest, my interest was sparked by the fact that they have their headquarters here in Boston -- which isn't a particularly good reason to use a tour company -- but it made me curious to learn more.



One thing that I would look at would be the guides they use. Are they only using their own guides for the trips, like ABD, or are they using a combination of their own guides plus local guides, like Nat Geo tends to do. The reason I point this out is because companies like ABD actually aren't licensed to guide in many of the countries they are offering tours, which is why you have your 2 ABD guides plus a whole raft of short term local guides that you pick up in all the different areas you visit. Whereas Nat Geo, at least on the Active Adventure I was on, will have one official Nat Geo guide who stays with the group for the entire trip, and then will have 1 local guide who is licensed by the country your in, with you for the entirety of your time in a region. So for our South East Asia trip, we had Nat Geo guide Jessica who was with us from the time our trip started in Saigon all the way through to our departure in Siem Reap. Then while we were in Vietnam, we had Dat, he was our local Vietnamese guide who was licensed to guide in Vietnam by the Vietnamese government and he stayed with us from Saigon right up until we got on a plane bound for Laos. When we reached Laos, our next local guide Paan (pronounced Pawn) was there waiting to meet us and she stayed with us from arrival in Luang Prabang until we were back at the airport to catch our flight to Siem Reap. Again, Paan was licensed to guide in Laos by the government. Upon arrival in Siem Reap, our final local guide Visal was waiting for us at the airport and he stayed with us through to the farewell dinner. He also was licensed to guide in Cambodia by the Cambodian government. Every guide we had wore lanyards displaying their credentials at all times while guiding us through their countries. Even Jessica, our Nat Geo guide wore her credentials at all times. 

On our ABD in Central Europe we found that the guides basically hid the fact that they were guiding a tour. No credentials were on display and the placards they carried were orange with no writing. And I know for a fact that in order to guide in Austria, Vienna especially, all guides and tours must be licensed and authorized by the Austrian government.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> One thing that I would look at would be the guides they use. Are they only using their own guides for the trips, like ABD, or are they using a combination of their own guides plus local guides, like Nat Geo tends to do. The reason I point this out is because companies like ABD actually aren't licensed to guide in many of the countries they are offering tours, which is why you have your 2 ABD guides plus a whole raft of short term local guides that you pick up in all the different areas you visit. Whereas Nat Geo, at least on the Active Adventure I was on, will have one official Nat Geo guide who stays with the group for the entire trip, and then will have 1 local guide who is licensed by the country your in, with you for the entirety of your time in a region. So for our South East Asia trip, we had Nat Geo guide Jessica who was with us from the time our trip started in Saigon all the way through to our departure in Siem Reap. Then while we were in Vietnam, we had Dat, he was our local Vietnamese guide who was licensed to guide in Vietnam by the Vietnamese government and he stayed with us from Saigon right up until we got on a plane bound for Laos. When we reached Laos, our next local guide Paan (pronounced Pawn) was there waiting to meet us and she stayed with us from arrival in Luang Prabang until we were back at the airport to catch our flight to Siem Reap. Again, Paan was licensed to guide in Laos by the government. Upon arrival in Siem Reap, our final local guide Visal was waiting for us at the airport and he stayed with us through to the farewell dinner. He also was licensed to guide in Cambodia by the Cambodian government. Every guide we had wore lanyards displaying their credentials at all times while guiding us through their countries. Even Jessica, our Nat Geo guide wore her credentials at all times.
> 
> On our ABD in Central Europe we found that the guides basically hid the fact that they were guiding a tour. No credentials were on display and the placards they carried were orange with no writing. And I know for a fact that in order to guide in Austria, Vienna especially, all guides and tours must be licensed and authorized by the Austrian government.



Was this the tour you took? http://www.nationalgeographicexpeditions.com/expeditions/vietnam-cambodia-thailand-tour/detail That is quite a bit cheaper than ABD and they add Thailand to the mix. I'm curious about the accommodations though. I haven't compared, but I was told ABD has best hotels available, which is big for us. We were spoiled big time in China with the Peninsulas, Rosewood and Four Seasons.


----------



## Grifdog22

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> On our ABD in Central Europe we found that the guides basically hid the fact that they were guiding a tour. No credentials were on display and the placards they carried were orange with no writing.



While all of us appreciate hearing about other options, it seems like in every posting on these ABD boards you have to add a nasty negative comment about ABD, so I am surprised that you said the above.  As we were told this was changed some time back to remove the name and logo from the group traveling to enhance security and safety for the group. The paddle is just orange or one color.  The ponchos, etc. given out that would be worn in public no longer have the ABD logo.  It makes it less obvious and less likely that the group would be targeted for terrorism or other misconduct - and it makes it look less obvious it is a USA tour group. The guides don't hide, and ABD isn't trying to do something inappropriate or under the radar.  I don't think your continuing to bash ABD is going to get you another freebie or discount,  so give it a rest please.


----------



## Lulu27

Jess_S said:


> Is anyone familiar with Vantage Deluxe World Travel? I just saw an ad for them and I'm curious.


My mother-in-law and her sister have been on several Vantage tours. I will ask her for more details. I think the guests tend to be older (MIL is 72.)


----------



## sayhello

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> On our ABD in Central Europe we found that the guides basically hid the fact that they were guiding a tour. No credentials were on display and the placards they carried were orange with no writing. And I know for a fact that in order to guide in Austria, Vienna especially, all guides and tours must be licensed and authorized by the Austrian government.





Grifdog22 said:


> While all of us appreciate hearing about other options, it seems like in every posting on these ABD boards you have to add a nasty negative comment about ABD, so I am surprised that you said the above.  As we were told this was changed some time back to remove the name and logo from the group traveling to enhance security and safety for the group. The paddle is just orange or one color.  The ponchos, etc. given out that would be worn in public no longer have the ABD logo.  It makes it less obvious and less likely that the group would be targeted for terrorism or other misconduct - and it makes it look less obvious it is a USA tour group. The guides don't hide, and ABD isn't trying to do something inappropriate or under the radar.  I don't think your continuing to bash ABD is going to get you another freebie or discount,  so give it a rest please.


As Grifdog22 so eloquently said, the ABD Adventure Guides stopped carrying and wearing identifying information in a lot of European areas for safety/security reasons.  Until recently, the paddle of power in Europe had the Adventures by Disney logo on it, and the Guides always wore their ABD badges.  In many non-European areas, such as China, they still do this. 

Sayhello


----------



## Cinderella's Slipper 2015

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> Was this the tour you took? http://www.nationalgeographicexpeditions.com/expeditions/vietnam-cambodia-thailand-tour/detail That is quite a bit cheaper than ABD and they add Thailand to the mix. I'm curious about the accommodations though. I haven't compared, but I was told ABD has best hotels available, which is big for us. We were spoiled big time in China with the Peninsulas, Rosewood and Four Seasons.



No that wasn't our trip. We did the active adventure so we were in 4 star hotels. We stayed in an Intercontinental in Hanoi. This was the trip I was on. http://www.nationalgeographicexpeditions.com/expeditions/vietnam-laos-cambodia-tour/detail It's more expensive overall than ABD but on a day by day breakdown, I did one in another post which I think is buried somewhere further up in the thread, it actually works out cheaper because you are doing something every single day of this trip. It's worth every penny spent.


----------



## carpenta

Even in the U.S. within many National Parks the only people allowed to lead a group to tour is a licensed tour guide or National Park employee. In Italy there is a license requirement to lead a tour group in a lot of areas and museums. I would think security in this day and age must also be considered.


----------



## DCPhotoGal

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> Actually our official ABD guide told us they couldn't have ABD on the placards because they weren't allowed to as they weren't licensed to lead tours in the countries we were visiting. They said nothing about "security reasons".
> 
> I'm sorry if you don't like someone expressing an opinion that is anti-ABD. Believe me I was very much in ABD's corner when they started and I held them to the highest expectations. It's unfortunate that they never lived up to the same standards as they hold in the parks. Did I ask for a freebie or a discount? No. Should I have received a discount? Yes. The same as any other returning ABD traveller. Did I receive that discount? No. Why? Because I'm not American. Did I complain? Yes. Did Disney do anything. No. Did I have issues on my ABD? Yes. Did I complain? Yes. Both to the guides when it happened and upon my return. Did Disney do anything? No. Did I expect them to? Not really. It would have been nice if they had at least acknowledged there had been mistakes made but instead they blamed the guest. Since when is it the guests fault that the guide nearly hospitalizes them? Did I ask for compensation? Again no. Have I been turned off using them as a tour company? Yes. For these and for the fact that not once on our "group tours" were we ever made to feel like part of the group. It wasn't as if we didn't try but when you have people purposely exclude you and then proceed to belittle and make fun of you because you're not American, it makes it a little hard to get excited about a product that should have been in line with the rest of Disney's offerings.



I'm sorry to heard that you felt an anti-Canadian sentiment on your trip.  I will say on our first two ABDs we had Canadian families with us and I don't feel like anyone made any fuss about it, and they seemed to fit in fine with the group.  It's difficult when working with diverse groups of any sort, I'm sure.  We noticed this on our spring break tour last year.  Half of our group was Jewish and were celebrating a Jewish holiday at one of our groups dinners, while the other half of the group was not.  However, they were really kind about trying to be inclusive and invited everyone to join their celebration if they wanted to.


----------



## OKW Lover

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> Are they only using their own guides for the trips, like ABD, or are they using a combination of their own guides plus local guides,


Just to be clear for those reading this thread, ABD uses a combination of both their own guides and local guides.


----------



## sayhello

Jess_S said:


> They are a tour operator. They look to be US based and have a mix of land and river cruise tours up on their website. To be honest, my interest was sparked by the fact that they have their headquarters here in Boston -- which isn't a particularly good reason to use a tour company -- but it made me curious to learn more.


This sounds like a perfect opportunity.  Contact them, and ask to come over to their headquarters!  Let them give you their best sales pitch!  Find out what you think of them.   Then let us all know!

Sayhello


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

@Cinderella's slipper we are a proud Canadian family and we have *always* felt very included on all of our adventures.  I can't possibly fathom why anyone would treat Canadians as any different from themselves.  However if someone did that then it is the ignorance of the individual(s) and definitely doesn't have anything to do with ABD.   I find that sometimes people like to poke fun at Canadians (in a very general sense), but to me it's all in good fun and never meant as anything more than that.  

I do wish you a great time in Africa.  You might want to consider packing some of your favorite snacks for your time spent in Zambia.  I could barely stomach some of the food there and ate just for sustenance (and we were at a luxury lodge!).  It is a beautiful country and so different from anywhere I have ever been.  Having said that I don't feel a burning desire to go back to Zambia again.  We accomplished the following:

toured the falls and the market on foot

sat in Angel's armchair (positively terrifying but I did it!)
did several activities (my absolute favorite thing we experienced there was the lunar rainbow {it only happens a few times a year and it was *spectacular* -- definitely once in a lifetime})
saw a hippo just off the side of the deck of our cottage early in the morning on our last day
took a 30 minute helicopter tour over the falls and through the gorge, during which we also saw many animals (elephants, hippos, giraffes, etc.)
had a sundowner on an uninhabited island where we were visited by a herd of elephants up close and personal
So I feel that we covered everything we wanted to despite myself and my daughter each being sick on separate days.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Cinderella's Slipper 2015 said:


> No that wasn't our trip. We did the active adventure so we were in 4 star hotels. We stayed in an Intercontinental in Hanoi. This was the trip I was on. http://www.nationalgeographicexpeditions.com/expeditions/vietnam-laos-cambodia-tour/detail It's more expensive overall than ABD but on a day by day breakdown, I did one in another post which I think is buried somewhere further up in the thread, it actually works out cheaper because you are doing something every single day of this trip. It's worth every penny spent.


Ah! Thank you. I will check it out!


----------



## Calfan

Just wanted to give an Austin adventures re-booking update.  It turns out we will not be using the 10% off re-booking offer for a 2019 AA Africa trip.  This takes nothing away from our terrific experience on our Yellowstone Winter Family trip.  I think it is quite likely we will travel with AA again.  I have just come to the conclusion that AA is likely best for North American travel, particularly the national parks, which I believe is really their area of expertise and where they likely excel, given their headquarters in Montana and deep experience with these trips.  For Africa, I was disappointed that the itineraries on their website aren't necessarily group trips that can be booked.  For Botswana, I was told that there are no group trips and that AA would be putting together a private trip for us.  That might have been okay, but the itinerary they sent was disappointing compared to the one on their website.  The killer was that, despite the website indicating that a perk of the Adventurer's Club for past AA travelers is the ability to cancel without penalty up to 45 days prior to the trip departure, this policy does not apply to Africa trips, so the deposit would be nonrefundable.  And the deposit is 25% of the trip price for Africa, so it is quite large.  I was also surprised that I wasn't at all impressed with my interaction with Carol Austin (one of the owners) in our communications about my potential booking.  If found her daughter, Kasey, to be a lot more responsive, but Carol handles the Africa bookings.  For Yellowstone, I found the person I dealt with at AA to be helpful and responsive, so this was either a fluke or maybe unique to Carol Austin.  Who knows?  Anyway, just wanted to report back for the sake of a balanced review.  Again, this doesn't mean we won't travel with AA again.  We just likely won't use them for international trips and will stick with their home-grown expertise.


----------



## sayhello

Calfan said:


> For Africa, I was disappointed that the itineraries on their website aren't necessarily group trips that can be booked.


Wow.  I find that disturbing.  I would be really upset to look at a tour provider's website, and then find out trips on that website can't actually be booked!  Sounds like bait and switch to me. 

Sayhello


----------



## Calfan

sayhello said:


> Wow.  I find that disturbing.  I would be really upset to look at a tour provider's website, and then find out trips on that website can't actually be booked!  Sounds like bait and switch to me.
> 
> Sayhello



That was pretty much my reaction, and it was a huge-turn off for the trips they don't handle themselves.


----------



## acndis

Calfan said:


> That was pretty much my reaction, and it was a huge-turn off for the trips they don't handle themselves.


Thanks for the follow-up.  I actually knew about the difference in departures because our specialist explained them to me when we booked Belize.  For our trip, AA is sort of an intermediary and then a company in Belize handles the logistics of the trip.  We booked this itinerary because it is perfect for us and because our specialist told us that she had booked it many times before and could speak for its quality.

I looked into booking directly with some of the companies they work with because, at first, I did not understand the middle man either but could not find an identical itinerary or get the price point I was getting with AA so I went with them on it.  If it all works out this summer, I will probably book Costa Rica with them because I like the itinerary better than ABDs.  Now that will be a group trip (unlike Belize that's just our family) and they had some estimated dates for next year.

I agree this was VERY different to me at first and I thought we might be one and done with AA because I was so used to the ABD model but I have to say, I am looking forward to it being a bit more local with experts from the area.  ABD has this, too, of course but I don't think it's quite to the extent of what our experience will be this summer.  

That said, we have not experienced a trip yet so I may report back singing a different tune!  We will see.

Also, I am planning to write up my experience in New Zealand and at Aulani (pre and post days to our ABD Australia trip).  I will probably post it on the Aulani board since it's more relevant there.   I will post the link here once I get done with it.  Aulani is our new favorite place ever!  We plan to go back next summer and every summer after that (just kidding) but after the big trip this year, we are going to stay closer to home for the next few years!


----------



## Ava

Calfan said:


> That was pretty much my reaction, and it was a huge-turn off for the trips they don't handle themselves.


So do they only handle the North American trips themselves? I would probably choose one of the national parks trips first, but have also looked at their Central/South American itineraries.


----------



## Calfan

acndis said:


> Thanks for the follow-up.  I actually knew about the difference in departures because our specialist explained them to me when we booked Belize.  For our trip, AA is sort of an intermediary and then a company in Belize handles the logistics of the trip.  We booked this itinerary because it is perfect for us and because our specialist told us that she had booked it many times before and could speak for its quality.
> 
> I looked into booking directly with some of the companies they work with because, at first, I did not understand the middle man either but could not find an identical itinerary or get the price point I was getting with AA so I went with them on it.  If it all works out this summer, I will probably book Costa Rica with them because I like the itinerary better than ABDs.  Now that will be a group trip (unlike Belize that's just our family) and they had some estimated dates for next year.
> 
> I agree this was VERY different to me at first and I thought we might be one and done with AA because I was so used to the ABD model but I have to say, I am looking forward to it being a bit more local with experts from the area.  ABD has this, too, of course but I don't think it's quite to the extent of what our experience will be this summer.
> 
> That said, we have not experienced a trip yet so I may report back singing a different tune!  We will see.
> 
> Also, I am planning to write up my experience in New Zealand and at Aulani (pre and post days to our ABD Australia trip).  I will probably post it on the Aulani board since it's more relevant there.   I will post the link here once I get done with it.  Aulani is our new favorite place ever!  We plan to go back next summer and every summer after that (just kidding) but after the big trip this year, we are going to stay closer to home for the next few years!



Thanks so much for your perspective on this.  I'm sure your Belize trip will be fantastic.  There was a family on our Yellowstone trip who had done both Belize and Costa Rica with AA, and they had nothing but positive things to say.  It isn't so much the subcontracting to locals that turned me off.  At least two of the three Nat Geo hiking trips I have done have been subcontracted, and they have been fantastic.  I totally agree about the attractiveness of having local guides with in-depth knowledge of the area.  I think my turn off was primarily with my interaction with Carol Austin.  She did not explain to me at all that the trip I was looking at on the website was not a group trip I could book.  She took a long time to get back to me, and her emails were kind of terse.  It sounds like you had a much better trip advisor.  And, like I said, the killer was finding out that the hefty deposit would be nonrefundable, because I am hoping to wait until ABD releases its 2019 trips to make a firm commitment regarding our summer 2019 travel plans.


----------



## Calfan

Ava said:


> So do they only handle the North American trips themselves? I would probably choose one of the national parks trips first, but have also looked at their Central/South American itineraries.



I'm not completely sure.  It could vary by region.  Africa is definitely subcontracted, as is Belize based on acndis' post.  But Costa Rica sounds like a trip they handle directly.  Subcontracting is not all that unusual, and  that wasn't the real turnoff to me.  It was the lack of clear communication, the "bait and switch" on the Botswana itinerary, my less than impressive dealings with Carol Austin (that could be a fluke)  and the whole nonrefundable deposit that I also wasn't expecting.


----------



## BluesTraveler

Thanks for updating us.  I really do appreciate all of the travel guidance and comments here.

As far as "other options" go - we are doing Italy on our own as a family in March (spring break), and I'm already exhausted.  I've researched/organized/lined up everything myself and I'm over it!  I told DH this is the last big trip we do for a while where I'm cruise director, so to speak.


----------



## sun_seekin

Long time lurker here...I thought I would chime in and let you know that I spent a lot of time mulling over African safari trips on with ABD, Tauck Bridges, and a few others such as Austin Adventures.  I've communicated with Carol Austin via email for a Tanzania safari and while she was someone curt, I had no issues.  We did not use them in the end bc their prices seemed high for the lodges they used (as was the case with Tauck with the exception of the Four Seasons Serengeti).  We ended up booking with Alluring Africa for a private (including our own tour guide/safari vehicle) safari trip for $4000-$7000 LESS than some of the other custom safari operators for the EXACT same itinerary and lodges and $10-$15,000 less than Tauck, A & K, and similar group tour operators.  We have a custom safari staying at all Elewana lodges including a hot air balloon ride, sundownders, and a visit to a Masaai village as well as other activities.  Hope this helps someone!


----------



## tink1970

BluesTraveler said:


> Thanks for updating us.  I really do appreciate all of the travel guidance and comments here.
> 
> As far as "other options" go - we are doing Italy on our own as a family in March (spring break), and I'm already exhausted.  I've researched/organized/lined up everything myself and I'm over it!  I told DH this is the last big trip we do for a while where I'm cruise director, so to speak.



Sorry, I'm laughing...I've wanted to fire myself from the tour director position many times. Unfortunately so far no one has applied for the job


----------



## acndis

sun_seekin said:


> Alluring


 Africa sounds amazing!  Are they family friendly?  Such good reviews online. Can I be nosy and ask how much you were quoted per person?  Sounds like a real option for us in a year or two!


----------



## sun_seekin

acndis said:


> Africa sounds amazing!  Are they family friendly?  Such good reviews online. Can I be nosy and ask how much you were quoted per person?  Sounds like a real option for us in a year or two!


Not at all!  I tried to find out how to send a PM but couldn't figure it out.  Total for our trip for 9 nights/10 days including domestic airfare came to $26,522 for 2 adults and 3 children (the oldest child will be 13 at the time of the trip which will be summer 2019).  Now because we are staying at Elewana properties we save quite a bit because they have a children under 12 sharing with an adult stay free deal.  So each adult came out to $7048 and the children averaged out to be about $4141, with my oldest coming out to be more than my youngest who will only be 8.  If you have two or less children I'd imagine the savings would be even greater at Elewana bc you could share one room.  We haven't taken the trip yet so I can't give a review unfortunately, but I have a friend who used Alluring Africa to plan their South Africa/Zimbabwe honeymoon trip and had great things to say.  

I originally set out to either do South Africa with ABD or Tanzania with Tauck, but after all the quotes I requested came back (including AA, Rothschild Safaris, and Extraordinary Journeys), I was so pleased with the price and responsiveness from Alluring Africa I went with them.  They do require a 25% non-refundable deposit however, which may be a no-go for some.


----------



## Calfan

sun_seekin said:


> Not at all!  I tried to find out how to send a PM but couldn't figure it out.  Total for our trip for 9 nights/10 days including domestic airfare came to $26,522 for 2 adults and 3 children (the oldest child will be 13 at the time of the trip which will be summer 2019).  Now because we are staying at Elewana properties we save quite a bit because they have a children under 12 sharing with an adult stay free deal.  So each adult came out to $7048 and the children averaged out to be about $4141, with my oldest coming out to be more than my youngest who will only be 8.  If you have two or less children I'd imagine the savings would be even greater at Elewana bc you could share one room.  We haven't taken the trip yet so I can't give a review unfortunately, but I have a friend who used Alluring Africa to plan their South Africa/Zimbabwe honeymoon trip and had great things to say.
> 
> I originally set out to either do South Africa with ABD or Tanzania with Tauck, but after all the quotes I requested came back (including AA, Rothschild Safaris, and Extraordinary Journeys), I was so pleased with the price and responsiveness from Alluring Africa I went with them.  They do require a 25% non-refundable deposit however, which may be a no-go for some.



Thanks so much for mentioning your experience with Alluring Africa.  I just had a really great conversation with Liz, there, and she is going to put together a Botswana itinerary for me to consider, to compare with group tour options from Natural Habitat Adventures and REI Adventures that I am also currently looking at.  My kids are both over 12, so I'm not sure we'll get as much of a price differential as you, but I'm still excited to see the quality of the itinerary she is going to put together and compare the cost to the small-group options.


----------



## sun_seekin

Calfan said:


> Thanks so much for mentioning your experience with Alluring Africa.  I just had a really great conversation with Liz, there, and she is going to put together a Botswana itinerary for me to consider, to compare with group tour options from Natural Habitat Adventures and REI Adventures that I am also currently looking at.  My kids are both over 12, so I'm not sure we'll get as much of a price differential as you, but I'm still excited to see the quality of the itinerary she is going to put together and compare the cost to the small-group options.


Liz is who we are working with also.  So far she has been great.    Let us know how her Botswana itinerary prices out compared to the other operators.


----------



## Calfan

sun_seekin said:


> Liz is who we are working with also.  So far she has been great.    Let us know how her Botswana itinerary prices out compared to the other operators.



Will do!  Great to know you have had a positive experience with Liz.


----------



## acndis

Calfan said:


> Will do!  Great to know you have had a positive experience with Liz.



Yes, I would love to hear what you find out and thanks for the info on AA.  I have nixed them for Africa based on your experience. Still really excited for Belize and potentially Costa Rica or Galapagos!


----------



## WishUponAStarryNight

For folks considering Austin Adventures, there is a "How to Plan the Ultimate Family Vacation" guide available for download on their site. It's most definitely marketing material, but there's some good information in there about how they conduct tours and what to expect, etc.  It's made me that much more excited for our Yellowstone trip, for sure!


----------



## acndis

We are also looking into another private touring company for Costa Rica that my dad recommended:

https://www.jacadatravel.com/latin-america/costa-rica/family-trip/

This trip looks amazing.  We have a travel specialist pricing for us.  I have been very impressed with their responsiveness (our specialist is in London) and they have some great trips.  I'll let you know how the process goes.


----------



## Aelin1977

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I do wish you a great time in Africa.  You might want to consider packing some of your favorite snacks for your time spent in Zambia.  I could barely stomach some of the food there and ate just for sustenance (and we were at a luxury lodge!).  It is a beautiful country and so different from anywhere I have ever been.  Having said that I don't feel a burning desire to go back to Zambia again.  We accomplished the following:
> 
> toured the falls and the market on foot
> 
> sat in Angel's armchair (positively terrifying but I did it!)
> did several activities (my absolute favorite thing we experienced there was the lunar rainbow {it only happens a few times a year and it was *spectacular* -- definitely once in a lifetime})
> saw a hippo just off the side of the deck of our cottage early in the morning on our last day
> took a 30 minute helicopter tour over the falls and through the gorge, during which we also saw many animals (elephants, hippos, giraffes, etc.)
> had a sundowner on an uninhabited island where we were visited by a herd of elephants up close and personal
> So I feel that we covered everything we wanted to despite myself and my daughter each being sick on separate days.



Hi, I'm new to the boards and was curious about your experience in Zambia. Africa's on my bucket list and this was one of the countries I was looking at but when I saw your post I started to wonder if I should consider looking elsewhere. It seemed like you didn't see any animals and had a bad experience with the food. Can I ask where you stayed? And was the food really that bad? From what I've read most of the places serve western style dishes.


----------



## EllinK

[QUOTE="acndis, post: 58728781, member: 439150"

Also, I am planning to write up my experience in New Zealand and at Aulani (pre and post days to our ABD Australia trip).  I will probably post it on the Aulani board since it's more relevant there.   I will post the link here once I get done with it.  Aulani is our new favorite place ever!  We plan to go back next summer and every summer after that (just kidding) but after the big trip this year, we are going to stay closer to home for the next few years![/QUOTE]

Would love to see this trip report!


----------



## Calfan

Aelin1977 said:


> Hi, I'm new to the boards and was curious about your experience in Zambia. Africa's on my bucket list and this was one of the countries I was looking at but when I saw your post I started to wonder if I should consider looking elsewhere. It seemed like you didn't see any animals and had a bad experience with the food. Can I ask where you stayed? And was the food really that bad? From what I've read most of the places serve western style dishes.



I realize you did not pose this question to me, but I was in Zambia and Zimbabwe in 2001 and loved my experience.  In both countries, we were mainly along the Zambezi River or Lake Kariba and saw tons of wildlife.  Too many hippos to count, elephants, lions, Cape Buffalo, impala, zebras, crocs, etc. Unfortunately, the only camp I can remember specifically in Zambia is Kulefu.  I also don't remember any issues with the food in either country.


----------



## BluesTraveler

DH and I have booked this Backroads hiking trip for October.  We've been eyeing the National Geographic ones based on Calfan and Californiagirl's reviews, but they are a little too long for us to leave the kids with grandparents.  This one is 5 nights, and we'll add a couple nights on our own.  Has anyone here done Backroads?

https://www.backroads.com/trips/WQTQ/cinque-terre-tuscany-italy-hiking-tour


----------



## carpenta

I (we) did the Yellowstone Family trip with Nat. Geo but it was sub contracted to Back Roads and Back Roads used their guides and transportation. Nat. Geo. supplied a Yellowstone expert guide. It was a flawless trip and one of our favorites. Really professional. Would never hesitate to travel anywhere with Back Roads again.


----------



## BluesTraveler

carpenta said:


> I (we) did the Yellowstone Family trip with Nat. Geo but it was sub contracted to Back Roads and Back Roads used their guides and transportation. Nat. Geo. supplied a Yellowstone expert guide. It was a flawless trip and one of our favorites. Really professional. Would never hesitate to travel anywhere with Back Roads again.


That is really great to know, thank you.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

BluesTraveler said:


> DH and I have booked this Backroads hiking trip for October.  We've been eyeing the National Geographic ones based on Calfan and Californiagirl's reviews, but they are a little too long for us to leave the kids with grandparents.  This one is 5 nights, and we'll add a couple nights on our own.  Has anyone here done Backroads?
> 
> https://www.backroads.com/trips/WQTQ/cinque-terre-tuscany-italy-hiking-tour


Can't wait to hear about it! I've been intrigued by their trips as well and have heard great things.


----------



## sayhello

BluesTraveler said:


> DH and I have booked this Backroads hiking trip for October.  We've been eyeing the National Geographic ones based on Calfan and Californiagirl's reviews, but they are a little too long for us to leave the kids with grandparents.  This one is 5 nights, and we'll add a couple nights on our own.  Has anyone here done Backroads?
> 
> https://www.backroads.com/trips/WQTQ/cinque-terre-tuscany-italy-hiking-tour


I did Backroads several years ago, and really loved them (walking tour of Nova Scotia).  Ironically, I haven't booked with them in a while since I find their itineraries too short.    When I took my first ABD, Chris Brown was one of our Adventure Guides.  He's fabulous, and at least at that time, he also Guided for Backroads.  He said ABD used a lot of Backroads' policies as a basis for their own.  The Guides were wonderful and attentive, and assuming they're still of the same quality, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them.

Sayhello


----------



## acndis

I started my NZ/Aulani trip report. It's here on the Aulani Board:

https://www.disboards.com/threads/t...-1-1-6-via-new-zealand-and-australia.3663239/

Let me know if you have questions.


----------



## SirDuff

BluesTraveler said:


> DH and I have booked this Backroads hiking trip for October.  We've been eyeing the National Geographic ones based on Calfan and Californiagirl's reviews, but they are a little too long for us to leave the kids with grandparents.  This one is 5 nights, and we'll add a couple nights on our own.  Has anyone here done Backroads?
> 
> https://www.backroads.com/trips/WQTQ/cinque-terre-tuscany-italy-hiking-tour



Not hiking, but I've done two Backroads biking trips (Argentina and Northern Thailand).  I loved them and would highly recommend them.  Many of people on my tours were on their 5th, 10th, even 25th Backroads trips.

The guides were amazing.  Loved the routes and great hotels.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Aelin1977 said:


> Hi, I'm new to the boards and was curious about your experience in Zambia. Africa's on my bucket list and this was one of the countries I was looking at but when I saw your post I started to wonder if I should consider looking elsewhere. It seemed like you didn't see any animals and had a bad experience with the food. Can I ask where you stayed? And was the food really that bad? From what I've read most of the places serve western style dishes.



You must have misunderstood my post.  We did not visit Zambia to see animals.  We went primarily to see Victoria Falls.  However, not sure if you read that we did see a hippo just off our cottage deck on our last day (which is very rare -- we were within 8 feet of it on foot, which is quite scary) and got very close to a herd of elephants on foot on our sun downer on a remote island, which is entirely different from seeing them from the comfort of a 4x4.  We also saw several animals on our helicopter tour of Victoria Falls.  We never did a safari experience in Zambia because it wasn't our intent.

I believe you have taken my post of context so I am not going to post the name of our our lodge (I will say though that it was a very exclusive 5* property on the Zambezi river).  I personally didn't care for the food, which doesn't mean everyone will feel the same way.  Actually most people we met enjoyed it.  

If you want to go to Zambia head to the TA forum and read everything you can on Zambia.  Also buy travel books about it.  Don't base your decision on my experience.  We accomplished everything that I wanted to and more.  I am very glad that we went.  We had several highlights on this leg of our journey.


----------



## EllinK

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I am going to Antarctica with A&K in December. I researched the various companies and the 2 reasons I chose A&K are: i) they are the only ones who offer a cruise during the Christmas school break and ii) the cruise offered during the Christmas break is a family cruise and has several teenagers around my daughter's age.



Please let us know about your A&K cruise to Antarctica!!! This is definitely on my list and I'd love to know all the details.


----------



## tgeorge

acndis said:


> I started my NZ/Aulani trip report. It's here on the Aulani Board:
> 
> https://www.disboards.com/threads/t...-1-1-6-via-new-zealand-and-australia.3663239/
> 
> Let me know if you have questions.



Excited to read this! I think Australia will be out next trip (not a group tour, but hopefully I can either get a custom itinerary from someone or cobble it together using various itineraries), but I want to add some time in NZ too, so looking forward to reading what your family did. 

I was hoping for Japan to be our next trip, but looks like Australia/NZ is in the lead


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

EllinK said:


> Please let us know about your A&K cruise to Antarctica!!! This is definitely on my list and I'd love to know all the details.



We didn't end up going to Antarctica in December .  I cancelled before the PIF date.  A&K was extremely generous (anyone at ABD reading this -- you should do the same -- it earns you A LOT of goodwill) and refunded my FULL deposit, even though their guidelines state they will keep $500.00 per person.  

I re-booked for this December (after they refunded my initial deposit for last year), when they go to South Georgia, the Falkland Islands and Antarctica.  I hope I have the nerve to cancel Christmas with my family.  I host every year and my family wouldn't get together otherwise.  It is very hard for me to do.  Almost impossible.  But I want to do this trip SO SO badly and regretted cancelling last year.  I have already booked my flights, so fingers crossed I can bring myself to cancel and spend Christmas  with a bunch of strangers exploring South Georgia .


----------



## sayhello

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> We didn't end up going to Antarctica in December .  I cancelled before the PIF date.  A&K was extremely generous (anyone at ABD reading this -- you should do the same -- it earns you A LOT of goodwill) and refunded my FULL deposit, even though their guidelines state they will keep $500.00 per person.
> 
> I re-booked for this December (after they refunded my initial deposit for last year), when they go to South Georgia, the Falkland Islands and Antarctica.  I hope I have the nerve to cancel Christmas with my family.  I host every year and my family wouldn't get together otherwise.  It is very hard for me to do.  Almost impossible.  But I want to do this trip SO SO badly and regretted cancelling last year.  I have already booked my flights, so fingers crossed I can bring myself to cancel and spend Christmas  with a bunch of strangers exploring South Georgia .


Do it! Do it!  Do it!  Let them fend for themselves for one year!  You have to take care of YOU!  

Sayhello


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

sayhello said:


> Do it! Do it!  Do it!  Let them fend for themselves for one year!  You have to take care of YOU!
> 
> Sayhello



It's complicated.  My brother is not well and each Christmas could be his last.  His kids LOVE coming to my house for Christmas every year.  His wife doesn't really interact with her family, so I'm pretty much all they have for the holidays.  My sister and brother only interact when I have everyone over for the holidays so, there's also that.  And her kids also LOVE coming to my house (what can I say -- my dh is a kid at heart and we have an arcade-like basement with a theatre, Foosball table, tabletop hockey, billiards table, pinball machines, arcade games, etc.).  So a lot of pressure on me to host the holidays every year.  And of course the enormous guilt I'd feel if I let them down.  I'm thinking about doing "Christmas for Thanksgiving" this year.


----------



## sayhello

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> It's complicated.  My brother is not well and each Christmas could be his last.  His kids LOVE coming to my house for Christmas every year.  His wife doesn't really interact with her family, so I'm pretty much all they have for the holidays.  My sister and brother only interact when I have everyone over for the holidays so, there's also that.  And her kids also LOVE coming to my house (what can I say -- my dh is a kid at heart and we have an arcade-like basement with a theatre, Foosball table, tabletop hockey, billiards table, pinball machines, arcade games, etc.).  So a lot of pressure on me to host the holidays every year.  And of course the enormous guilt I'd feel if I let them down.  I'm thinking about doing "Christmas for Thanksgiving" this year.


Christmas for Thanksgiving was going to be my suggestion.  Don't cancel, re-schedule!

Sayhello


----------



## Tsunami

BluesTraveler said:


> DH and I have booked this Backroads hiking trip for October.  We've been eyeing the National Geographic ones based on Calfan and Californiagirl's reviews, but they are a little too long for us to leave the kids with grandparents.  This one is 5 nights, and we'll add a couple nights on our own.  Has anyone here done Backroads?
> 
> https://www.backroads.com/trips/WQTQ/cinque-terre-tuscany-italy-hiking-tour



Backroads is fantastic! My parents have been on about a dozen+ Backroads trips, with a Spain one coming up in two weeks. We've also done two of them as a family with younger kids, one to the Big Island of Hawaii and the other to Costa Rica. We've only been on one ABD (Australia December 2017), however, so my comparisons are limited. 

In our experience, the Backroads trips have been smaller and more intimate. On the family BR trips, we've had no more than 22 people for 3 guides and they use vans rather than buses. Given the size and ratio, they are able to do things like dine in local homes and take the children for a day on their own adventure. The trips are also a lot more active and the moving from hotel to hotel can be more creative. For example, on the Big Island, we biked from Volcanoes National Park down to the coast, and in Costa Rica we hiked through the rainforest to one hotel, and the next day white water rafted out of it. Also, compared to Disney, they give a lot more suggestions for OYO time and will arrange more things for you. 

The main negative we experienced was that our kids were the youngest, whereas with Disney, they are right in the mix at ages 10 and 12. Also, the trips are quite short. On ours, this wasn't a problem as both places are easy to travel and we extended them on our own. My parents have paired up their trips with other ones.

My parents have been on the Cinque Terre trip so let me know if you have questions specific to that one and I can get that information to you too. You are going to have a great time!!!


----------



## Tsunami

Calfan said:


> Have you looked at Thomson Family Adventures?  We did China with them in 2016, and it was a fantastic experience and trip. Their itinerary is very similar to ABD (minus the parks of course, although we added on two days in Shanghai at the end of our trip to do Shanghai Disneyland).  It does not go to Hong Kong but the overall trip is 2 days longer than ABD's, so there is more time spent on mainland China. For example, Thomson's trip spends the night in Xi'an instead of flying in and out the same day, and their trip spends three nights in Yangshuo, which was my favorite area we visited.  Thomson's group sizes max out at around 20, and our trip had 10 people total.  They also guarantee their trips to go once they have one family booked.  This could be a great option for you guys for China if you are looking for a small-group experience, which is also our priority.
> 
> I have also done two NatGeo trips, but those were Adventures hiking trips.  There were no kids/teens on those trips, but that could have been because both were in Sept. when kids are back in school or because of the hiking orientation.  If your 15 and 17 year olds are well-traveled and on the mature side, then I think you might be ok to take a chance with NatGeo.  Their trips have been fantastic as well.  I am doing my third hiking trip with them this Nov. (Patagonia), and we have our first family trip booked with them for June/July 2018 (Peru).



We are looking at Thomson as a possibility for China in 2019 and it sounds like you had a wonderful experience with them. I will have an 11 and 13 year old at that point. Do you think that trip would be doable for them? Any suggestions as we evaluate Thomson versus ABD? Thanks!


----------



## carpenta

We also love Backroads. The smaller groups as well as the intimate vans does make travel accessible to areas big buses cannot access.


----------



## Calfan

Tsunami said:


> We are looking at Thomson as a possibility for China in 2019 and it sounds like you had a wonderful experience with them. I will have an 11 and 13 year old at that point. Do you think that trip would be doable for them? Any suggestions as we evaluate Thomson versus ABD? Thanks!



My kids were also 11 and 13 when we did China with Thomson (although they were very close to 12 and 14 because they both have summer birthdays), but the other family on our trip had kids ages 12, 10, 10 and 7, and they all did great, including the 7 year old.  That family was also very well traveled, but I wouldn’t think your kids would have any trouble with this trip and would likely love it.  What I strongly preferred with Thomson over ABD for China is that Thomson has much smaller groups. We had 10 on our trip with 2 full-time guides plus a local guide in each city who was with us from the time we arrived at the airport in that city to the time we left the airport for the next city. I felt like our time was so much more maximized and optimized than with the larger groups we have experienced on our 3 ABDs (34, 42 and 49, respectively). We also preferred that Thomson’s itinerary is 2 days longer than ABDs (but slightly cheaper st the time), so the Thomson version spends two nights in Xi’an instead of flying in and out the same day as the ABD does. Thomson also spends an extra night in Yangshuo, which was my favorite area that we visited. The Thomson trip is also a lot more active than the ABD. We did two hikes and two bike rides and also rode bamboo rafts on the Li River. There was also a cooking class which was fantastic plus dumpling making and a visit to a cave in Yangshuo. Just a really well organized and run trip with very knowledge, native guides.  Happy to answer any specific questions I haven’t covered.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Calfan said:


> My kids were also 11 and 13 when we did China with Thomson (although they were very close to 12 and 14 because they both have summer birthdays), but the other family on our trip had kids ages 12, 10, 10 and 7, and they all did great, including the 7 year old.  That family was also very well traveled, but I wouldn’t think your kids would have any trouble with this trip and would likely love it.  What I strongly preferred with Thomson over ABD for China is that Thomson has much smaller groups. We had 10 on our trip with 2 full-time guides plus a local guide in each city who was with us from the time we arrived at the airport in that city to the time we left the airport for the next city. I felt like our time was so much more maximized and optimized than with the larger groups we have experienced on our 3 ABDs (34, 42 and 49, respectively). We also preferred that Thomson’s itinerary is 2 days longer than ABDs (but slightly cheaper st the time), so the Thomson version spends two nights in Xi’an instead of flying in and out the same day as the ABD does. Thomson also spends an extra night in Yangshuo, which was my favorite area that we visited. The Thomson trip is also a lot more active than the ABD. We did two hikes and two bike rides and also rode bamboo rafts on the Li River. There was also a cooking class which was fantastic plus dumpling making and a visit to a cave in Yangshuo. Just a really well organized and run trip with very knowledge, native guides.  Happy to answer any specific questions I haven’t covered.



I have pondered Thomson a few times and I am considering them for Japan (but the Ryokan is giving me serious pause).  Can you tell me what the hotels were like?  Would you consider them luxury?  Was the location of the hotels central to local attractions?


----------



## BluesTraveler

Tsunami said:


> Backroads is fantastic! My parents have been on about a dozen+ Backroads trips, with a Spain one coming up in two weeks. We've also done two of them as a family with younger kids, one to the Big Island of Hawaii and the other to Costa Rica. We've only been on one ABD (Australia December 2017), however, so my comparisons are limited.
> 
> In our experience, the Backroads trips have been smaller and more intimate. On the family BR trips, we've had no more than 22 people for 3 guides and they use vans rather than buses. Given the size and ratio, they are able to do things like dine in local homes and take the children for a day on their own adventure. The trips are also a lot more active and the moving from hotel to hotel can be more creative. For example, on the Big Island, we biked from Volcanoes National Park down to the coast, and in Costa Rica we hiked through the rainforest to one hotel, and the next day white water rafted out of it. Also, compared to Disney, they give a lot more suggestions for OYO time and will arrange more things for you.
> 
> The main negative we experienced was that our kids were the youngest, whereas with Disney, they are right in the mix at ages 10 and 12. Also, the trips are quite short. On ours, this wasn't a problem as both places are easy to travel and we extended them on our own. My parents have paired up their trips with other ones.
> 
> My parents have been on the Cinque Terre trip so let me know if you have questions specific to that one and I can get that information to you too. You are going to have a great time!!!


Thank you so much!  We are really looking forward to it.  The hardest part right now is figuring out how to get to and from Florence - trying to keep it to 2 flights total and it's trickier than expected.


----------



## Calfan

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I have pondered Thomson a few times and I am considering them for Japan (but the Ryokan is giving me serious pause).  Can you tell me what the hotels were like?  Would you consider them luxury?  Was the location of the hotels central to local attractions?



We actually have a deposit down with Thomson for their Japan trip in 2020!  But I'm looking forward to the Ryokan as an authentic Japanese experience.  The hotels in China with Thomson were a mix of luxury and the best local accommodations available.  In Beijing, we stayed at the Renaissance Capital Beijing, which is a 5-star hotel, but definitely not as posh as the Rosewood.  In Xi'an, we stayed at the Hilton Xi'an, which was also 4/5-star.  In Chengdu, we stayed at the Ritz Carlton, which is the same hotel ABD uses.  In Yangshuo, we stayed at the Green Lotus Yangshuo, which is a 3-star, but the best available in Yangshuo itself, and it was totally fine. The setting of the hotel is just spectacular.  In Shanghai, we stayed at the Renaissance Shanghai Yu Garden, which was a very nice 5-star hotel, but this was the only hotel where I felt like the location was off, and I would have much preferred to be on the Bund.  The other hotels were all very well located.


----------



## RebelHawk

We just returned from a DCL/WDW trip and received an invitation for a DCL related survey. At one point it asked about other travel companies and of course included all of the Disney properties (WDW, ABD, DL, DLP, TDR, Hong Kong, Shanghai and Aulani)  but it also referenced Tauck. Tauck was included in two questions asking about awareness of the brand and any future planned bookings with them. I guess strictly as an acknowledgment of them that Disney considers them competition for their ABD and other travel brands.


----------



## laceltris3

RebelHawk said:


> We just returned from a DCL/WDW trip and received an invitation for a DCL related survey. At one point it asked about other travel companies and of course included all of the Disney properties (WDW, ABD, DL, DLP, TDR, Hong Kong, Shanghai and Aulani)  but it also referenced Tauck. Tauck was included in two questions asking about awareness of the brand and any future planned bookings with them. I guess strictly as an acknowledgment of them that Disney considers them competition for their ABD and other travel brands.



I just turned my Disney TA on to Tauck. When we finally booked our first ABD this year, my TA said she had only done one ABD, because of the cost, but that it was her favorite vacation of all. Then we chatted a bit and I mentioned how this was our first ABD, because I can't figure out how to do 2A3K on Tauck Bridges river cruises, and we had secured one of the two sets of connecting 2/3 rooms on the ABD river cruise, but if not for that we would have likely booked some other trip with Tauck again. I told her that it could be 20% cheaper to book with TB for a very similar itinerary, depending on the trip, especially once you include the no tipping and free pre or post night for previous guests (which is saving us about $1K in Dublin this year). She had me spell out the website for her and was totally interested in the prospect of an ABD-like product that while not cheap, is still noticeably less expensive. 

So even Disney TAs are open to other options!


----------



## BluesTraveler

BluesTraveler said:


> Thank you so much!  We are really looking forward to it.  The hardest part right now is figuring out how to get to and from Florence - trying to keep it to 2 flights total and it's trickier than expected.



Just a quick note that we changed our October Cinque Terre hiking trip with Backroads to their Arizona hiking trip.  It will be our 3rd trip this year (Italy on our own this spring, Iceland with ABD in July), and after looking at flights, I really needed something simpler (in terms of travel to and from) for the last trip of the year.  Backroads has been a DREAM to work with.  So responsive, lots of information, easy to get on the phone, etc.

I have a follow up question about Thompson.  We are looking at their Baja trip for spring break next year.  But, @Calfan, you mentioned for your China trip the wouldn't take a credit card for your final payment.  Does anyone know if that policy has changed?  It would be a deal breaker for us.


----------



## RSM

Policy hasn't changed.  Just wrote a check for our final payment to Japan.


----------



## Calfan

Thomson will allow you to pay with cc, but will charge something like a 3% fee. That is the big ding against them. Still hoping they change this policy....


----------



## BluesTraveler

Thanks. It might actually be worth it to pay that 3% - not just for the points, but also because travel booked with the Chase Sapphire Preferred card comes with automatic trip insurance.  So you wouldn't have to buy that separately. 

Does Thomson do dynamic pricing?  I know that within a month of booking our ABD Iceland trip, it had gone up quite a bit. About $700 per person, I think, which would be about 12% just for waiting 4 weeks to book (thank goodness we booked opening day). If Thomson doesn't do dynamic pricing, and we have a few months to think about whether we want to do the trip, that 3% fee also seems a little less egregious, I guess.

But would depend on the trip and whether alternatives are available.

In other words, I started out thinking deal breaker and now am not so sure.


----------



## RSM

The Thomson price included the trip insurance.  Not sure if that is standard or because we booked early.


----------



## Calfan

BluesTraveler said:


> Thanks. It might actually be worth it to pay that 3% - not just for the points, but also because travel booked with the Chase Sapphire Preferred card comes with automatic trip insurance.  So you wouldn't have to buy that separately.
> 
> Does Thomson do dynamic pricing?  I know that within a month of booking our ABD Iceland trip, it had gone up quite a bit. About $700 per person, I think, which would be about 12% just for waiting 4 weeks to book (thank goodness we booked opening day). If Thomson doesn't do dynamic pricing, and we have a few months to think about whether we want to do the trip, that 3% fee also seems a little less egregious, I guess.
> 
> But would depend on the trip and whether alternatives are available.
> 
> In other words, I started out thinking deal breaker and now am not so sure.





RSM said:


> The Thomson price included the trip insurance.  Not sure if that is standard or because we booked early.



Thomson does not do dynamic pricing, which is really nice. So you can wait and think about it. And it is my understanding that Thomson does include travel insurance with every booking.  But I agree with you that the 3% fee could be worth it. I have the Chase Sapphire Reserve that gives 3x on travel but can be redeemed for 4.5x at a minimum, so that justifies a 3% fee. Still wish Thomson would just take cc though.


----------



## nemofans

carpenta said:


> Just returned from Costa Rica with Tauck I was very impressed with our guides. The main guide was a native Costa Rican who knew so much history of his country and our associate guide was also born and raised in country. They did eat on occasion with the group but mostly were taking care of logistics and ticketing issues on computers or phones. The insights we got from their innate knowledge added so much more to our trip than the social aspect of eating together. IMO I'll take a native guide anytime.



Was it a Tauck Bridges tour?  Did you have Jonas?  He was our guide this past summer and he was excellent!


----------



## carpenta

nemofans said:


> Was it a Tauck Bridges tour?  Did you have Jonas?  He was our guide this past summer and he was excellent!



Yes it was a Tauck Bridges Tour. Our guide was Federico. He also was excellent. We already signed up for another Tauck trip in 2019.


----------



## nemofans

Which one?  We want to do another and keep going back & forth on which one.  We are deciding between Galapagos, Alaska, or Italy.  I told them I wish they would do a Tauck Bridges Iceland trip.


----------



## carpenta

We are doing the Croatia trip. We did the Nat. Geo Family trip to Iceland and it was great. That may be another option for you nemofans.


----------



## nemofans

I'll check it out!  How big was the group and were there a good number of kids?


----------



## carpenta

WE had 23 people total with 11 being kids aged 12 through 17. They limit the group to 26 I believe. We travel by a small bus which allows us access to areas which large busses would have trouble negotiating.


----------



## AquamarineSteph

Just returned from a G Adventures/National Geographic tour of Morocco.  While this tour wasn't as cushy feeling as the same duo's version of Costa Rica, this was a unique experience which I'm glad I had the chance to do.


----------



## TeeKo

carpenta said:


> Yes it was a Tauck Bridges Tour. Our guide was Federico. He also was excellent. We already signed up for another Tauck trip in 2019.



Did he go by Fico?


----------



## carpenta

What is "Fico"?


----------



## Calfan

carpenta said:


> What is "Fico"?



Guessing it’s a guide’s nickname....


----------



## TeeKo

carpenta said:


> What is "Fico"?



the guide’s nickname 
Our ABD Costa Rica guide was also Federico but went by Fico.
I thought maybe he worked for Tauck too. He was exceptional.


----------



## carpenta

Our Federico did not refer to himself as Fico. He did say he does lead other groups but mostly a French company that caters to mostly Europeans mostly French citizens.


----------



## aggiedog

We're looking for a trip for 2020, saving up and not traveling in 2019.  My plan is to bring brochures on our vacation this summer and have the kids pick where they want to go next.  I'm usually the planner and tour guide, but want one trip where I just show up and let someone else do all the work.  In my research, I've been thru this thread more times than I can count, and have made a list of most (surely I missed a few) companies mentioned.  I've put a few notes by some of the companies.  Feel free to add to my list, or pm me and I can edit them all into one post.  It's in no certain order. Most offer family trips specifically.  Some are definitely more "luxe," others are pretty basic.  Some offer fully private tours. Some are specific to certain regions.  Some have age restrictions.  Don't hold me to any details, as I'm no expert.  Consider this a jumping off point for your own research. 

ABD
Thomson
Tauck (Bridges for families)
Nat Geo Adventures/Expeditions
G Adventures
Inside Asia - Japan, Viet Nam, Burma
Intrepid
Classic Journeys
Queenslander
Austin Adventures
REI Adventures
Road Scholar - age over 47, offers some multigenerational trips to include grandkids
Overseas Adventure Travel - age over 50
Backroads - active travel
Insider Journeys - Asia
Rick Steves - Europe
Alexander and Roberts
Quark - Arctic, Antarctica
Micato - luxury
Alluring Africa
Butterfield and Robertson
Abercrombie and Kent
Uniworld - river cruise with multigenerational trips
Zicasso - travel clearing house that seems to match your preferences to travel providers
Trafalgar
Gate 1
France Just for You - (a shout out to the awesome company that did our France planning last year)
Natural Habit Adventures
Off the Beaten Path
Wildland Adventures/Trekking


----------



## Calfan

aggiedog said:


> We're looking for a trip for 2020, saving up and not traveling in 2019.  My plan is to bring brochures on our vacation this summer and have the kids pick where they want to go next.  I'm usually the planner and tour guide, but want one trip where I just show up and let someone else do all the work.  In my research, I've been thru this thread more times than I can count, and have made a list of most (surely I missed a few) companies mentioned.  I've put a few notes by some of the companies.  Feel free to add to my list, or pm me and I can edit them all into one post.  It's in no certain order. Most offer family trips specifically.  Some are definitely more "luxe," others are pretty basic.  Some offer fully private tours. Some are specific to certain regions.  Some have age restrictions.  Don't hold me to any details, as I'm no expert.  Consider this a jumping off point for your own research.
> 
> ABD
> Thomson
> Tauck (Bridges for families)
> Nat Geo Adventures
> G Adventures
> Inside Japan - Asia
> Intrepid
> Classic Journeys
> Queenslander
> Austin Adventures
> REI Adventures
> Road Scholar - age over 47, offers some multigenerational trips to include grandkids
> Overseas Adventure Travel - age over 50
> Backroads - active travel
> Insider Journeys - Asia
> Rick Steves - Europe
> Alexander and Roberts
> Quark - Arctic, Antarctica
> Micato - luxury
> Alluring Africa
> Butterfield and Robertson
> Abercrombie and Kent
> Uniworld - river cruise with multigenerational trips
> Zicasso - travel clearing house that seems to match your preferences to travel providers
> Trafalgar
> Gate 1
> France Just for You - (a shout out to the awesome company that did our France planning last year)



Great list. Thanks.  I'd add Natural Habit Adventures. We are doing Botswana with them, and they offer both family and regular trips.  Also, for Nat Geo, I'd note that Adventures are the active trips and Exhibitions are "the rest."


----------



## Ava

aggiedog said:


> We're looking for a trip for 2020, saving up and not traveling in 2019.  My plan is to bring brochures on our vacation this summer and have the kids pick where they want to go next.  I'm usually the planner and tour guide, but want one trip where I just show up and let someone else do all the work.  In my research, I've been thru this thread more times than I can count, and have made a list of most (surely I missed a few) companies mentioned.  I've put a few notes by some of the companies.  Feel free to add to my list, or pm me and I can edit them all into one post.  It's in no certain order. Most offer family trips specifically.  Some are definitely more "luxe," others are pretty basic.  Some offer fully private tours. Some are specific to certain regions.  Some have age restrictions.  Don't hold me to any details, as I'm no expert.  Consider this a jumping off point for your own research.
> 
> ABD
> Thomson
> Tauck (Bridges for families)
> Nat Geo Adventures/Expeditions
> G Adventures
> Inside Asia - Japan, Viet Nam, Burma
> Intrepid
> Classic Journeys
> Queenslander
> Austin Adventures
> REI Adventures
> Road Scholar - age over 47, offers some multigenerational trips to include grandkids
> Overseas Adventure Travel - age over 50
> Backroads - active travel
> Insider Journeys - Asia
> Rick Steves - Europe
> Alexander and Roberts
> Quark - Arctic, Antarctica
> Micato - luxury
> Alluring Africa
> Butterfield and Robertson
> Abercrombie and Kent
> Uniworld - river cruise with multigenerational trips
> Zicasso - travel clearing house that seems to match your preferences to travel providers
> Trafalgar
> Gate 1
> France Just for You - (a shout out to the awesome company that did our France planning last year)
> Natural Habit Adventures


I did the same while reading this thread. I have a note on my phone with a long list of tour companies to check out. A couple others I noted that look interesting are:
Off the Beaten Path (no specific family tours but kids are welcome on small group tours based on the tour/child's age, they also do custom tours)
Wildland Adventures
I also found one just now called Wildland Trekking that does hiking/backpacking trips, multi-day as well as day hikes.

I'm thinking of trying a group tour for the first time in 2020. My youngest will be 7 by then, so old enough for a good number of options. I will need to stick with the ones on the more budget end of the spectrum, though. ABD, Tauck, etc are unfortunately out of our price range.


----------



## iujen94

aggiedog said:


> We're looking for a trip for 2020, saving up and not traveling in 2019.  My plan is to bring brochures on our vacation this summer and have the kids pick where they want to go next.  I'm usually the planner and tour guide, but want one trip where I just show up and let someone else do all the work.  In my research, I've been thru this thread more times than I can count, and have made a list of most (surely I missed a few) companies mentioned.  I've put a few notes by some of the companies.  Feel free to add to my list, or pm me and I can edit them all into one post.  It's in no certain order. Most offer family trips specifically.  Some are definitely more "luxe," others are pretty basic.  Some offer fully private tours. Some are specific to certain regions.  Some have age restrictions.  Don't hold me to any details, as I'm no expert.  Consider this a jumping off point for your own research.
> 
> ABD
> Thomson
> Tauck (Bridges for families)
> Nat Geo Adventures/Expeditions
> G Adventures
> Inside Asia - Japan, Viet Nam, Burma
> Intrepid
> Classic Journeys
> Queenslander
> Austin Adventures
> REI Adventures
> Road Scholar - age over 47, offers some multigenerational trips to include grandkids
> Overseas Adventure Travel - age over 50
> Backroads - active travel
> Insider Journeys - Asia
> Rick Steves - Europe
> Alexander and Roberts
> Quark - Arctic, Antarctica
> Micato - luxury
> Alluring Africa
> Butterfield and Robertson
> Abercrombie and Kent
> Uniworld - river cruise with multigenerational trips
> Zicasso - travel clearing house that seems to match your preferences to travel providers
> Trafalgar
> Gate 1
> France Just for You - (a shout out to the awesome company that did our France planning last year)
> Natural Habit Adventures



WOW, this is super helpful!  Now, just tell me which one is perfect for my family, and I'll be all set!


----------



## AquaDame

We went with go2africa for our trip next year to East Africa (Kenya, Tanzania, Zimbabwe and Zambia) and am in the middle of booking transfers and guides for a week of our China trip this November (Chengdu, Xian, Beijing portions) with Catherine Lu Tours which is also highly rated. They were both willing and ready to customize every aspect and do exactly what we wanted - and offered good advice when and where we weren't sure. So far in the planning/deposit process they have been lovely and came highly reviewed.


----------



## Ava

Does anyone know of any websites for reviews of group/guided tours & tour companies, besides the companies own websites? TripAdvisor doesn’t really have a place for reviews of multi day tours. You can sometimes find mentions of group tours in the reviews of a certain location, but not often. I’d love more firsthand info, especially about some of the lower cost options like G Adventures, Intrepid, and Gate 1.


----------



## pixiepirate

Has anyone travelled with Smithsonian Journeys?  I keep looking at their Classic Mystery Lover's England tour.


----------



## BluesTraveler

Ava said:


> Does anyone know of any websites for reviews of group/guided tours & tour companies, besides the companies own websites?


They're hard to find.  Some of the companies have reviews on their facebook pages.  Yelp has some reviews.  I've been trying to find reviews of Abercrombie & Kent family trips, as they have a couple we're interested in, but not getting much luck.  Makes you appreciate how helpful this board is.


----------



## aggiedog

I've found some reviews on the TripAdvisor travel forums, particularly for the larger companies like Gate 1, etc.


----------



## AquamarineSteph

G Adventures used to have a message board.  I'm not sure if they still maintain it or have switched to something else.  I've done G Adventures/National Geographic tours (they have co-branded tours), but those are the only ones I've done.


----------



## nemofans

Tauck has a community forum, but not many are chatting on it.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

AquamarineSteph said:


> I've done G Adventures/National Geographic tours (they have co-branded tours), but those are the only ones I've done.



How do you find the co-branded tours?  What were your thoughts?


----------



## AquamarineSteph

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> How do you find the co-branded tours?  What were your thoughts?



When you go to the G Adventures website there should be a link at the top of the page that says 'travel styles' - at least, that's how it appears on a desktop or laptop page.  I do not know if it appears the same on a phone, but I think it's the same for a tablet.

Anyway, under 'travel styles' you have a variety of options.  Classic.  National Geographic.  Active. Family.  Rail. Etc.  Each travel style is a little different, so you'll want to have in mind if you want to go bare budget or slightly upgraded or somewhere in-between. 

We've done two co-branded National Geographic tours with them.  Costa Rica & Morocco.  I totally loved both.  Now they're very different from ABD.  They're different from Tauck.  You have to carry own bags.  You don't always stay at four star hotels.  But I fell in love with them on our Costa Rica tour, and we have one more scheduled with them later this year for Ecuador.  Our Costa Rica tour was amazing. The hotels were fabulous.  And Morocco is just drop dead gorgeous.  

With both tours, we had a lot of local experiences.  I was a little iffy about this at first, but these turned out to be some of the highlights of the tours.  And what I also like is that with G Adventures you lock into the set price and then - only if you want to - there are optional activities you can pay to do.  You know about these up front.  I'm not always the person who wants to bungee jump, so being able to opt out of this activity without feeling like I'm wasting money I paid for a group tour is a plus in my book.  But if you want to do this?  They make it easy and post the price up front.


----------



## laceltris3

Tauck just came out with an app and I am checking it out. So far I am impressed. It not only has a countdown to your trip (automatically calculated when you log in) but it has your itinerary, the hotel information, and essentially everything that’s on the site in a much more easily accessible fashion. It has restaurant recommendations for the few OYO meals so you can research and make plans and I am talking 30 restaurants, plus sightseeing and nightlife spots, that also map you to it automatically. It also has information that will be available when you are on the tour as well.  And it’s based against a pretty background of Irish scenery for our Ireland forever trip. It has everything in the book plus a ton more. They clearly put a lot of effort into it.


----------



## carpenta

We had that app on our Costa Rica trip over Christmas and it is really impressive. Give you a great expectation feeling before you leave and also local knowledge when you are actually on the trip. Love it.


----------



## Lulu27

laceltris3 said:


> Tauck just came out with an app and I am checking it out. So far I am impressed. It not only has a countdown to your trip (automatically calculated when you log in) but it has your itinerary, the hotel information, and essentially everything that’s on the site in a much more easily accessible fashion. It has restaurant recommendations for the few OYO meals so you can research and make plans and I am talking 30 restaurants, plus sightseeing and nightlife spots, that also map you to it automatically. It also has information that will be available when you are on the tour as well.  And it’s based against a pretty background of Irish scenery for our Ireland forever trip. It has everything in the book plus a ton more. They clearly put a lot of effort into it.



WOW! That sounds like an excellent tool!


----------



## sayhello

laceltris3 said:


> Tauck just came out with an app and I am checking it out. So far I am impressed. It not only has a countdown to your trip (automatically calculated when you log in) but it has your itinerary, the hotel information, and essentially everything that’s on the site in a much more easily accessible fashion. It has restaurant recommendations for the few OYO meals so you can research and make plans and I am talking 30 restaurants, plus sightseeing and nightlife spots, that also map you to it automatically. It also has information that will be available when you are on the tour as well.  And it’s based against a pretty background of Irish scenery for our Ireland forever trip. It has everything in the book plus a ton more. They clearly put a lot of effort into it.


That sounds amazing!  ABD should really be listening to that!!

Sayhello


----------



## cynditech

AquaDame said:


> We went with go2africa for our trip next year to East Africa (Kenya, Tanzania, Zimbabwe and Zambia) and am in the middle of booking transfers and guides for a week of our China trip this November (Chengdu, Xian, Beijing portions) with Catherine Lu Tours which is also highly rated. They were both willing and ready to customize every aspect and do exactly what we wanted - and offered good advice when and where we weren't sure. So far in the planning/deposit process they have been lovely and came highly reviewed.



After reading this - I contact Catherine Lu Tours.  They seem great so far and have put together a nice itinerary (and very flexible).  I would love to hear how it goes for you guys this year, using them.  We are booking for next June.


----------



## kristilew

Thanks, @laceltris3 !  We just booked our second Tauck river cruise   I will have to get the app.


----------



## nemofans

I want to do a Tauck river cruise!


----------



## BluesTraveler

Has anyone traveled with Abercrombie & Kent? @*WDW*Groupie* you mentioned on the Japan thread that you were looking at their Japan itinerary.  We are looking at their Switzerland and China itineraries, but they have quite a few negative reviews on Yelp, and I can't find any other source of reviews for them.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

BluesTraveler said:


> Has anyone traveled with Abercrombie & Kent? @*WDW*Groupie* you mentioned on the Japan thread that you were looking at their Japan itinerary.  We are looking at their Switzerland and China itineraries, but they have quite a few negative reviews on Yelp, and I can't find any other source of reviews for them.



We haven't travelled with them yet, but we are going to Antarctica, S. Georgia and Falkland Islands with them this year.  We cancelled our trip with them last year and they gave us a 100% refund of our deposit (their t&c said they could keep $500.00 per person), which really, really impressed me (because as we know ABD won't refund your deposit -- they "hold" it for another ABD trip).

Their service seems exceptional and I really like the Japan itinerary -- it is very similar to what I'd design for a private tour.  The hotels are top notch in great locations and they include quite a few meals.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

An update on my Nat Geo hiking trip with my daughter to Machu Picchu ...

Well the rose-colored glasses with Nat Geo are a little off. I was on the phone contacting them about the private Japan trip in anticipation of the ABD release (to compare), when the woman I was talking to told me my MP hiking trip had been cancelled! My Nat Geo trip coordinator hadn't called me about it. He, apparently, didn't know. He tried to tell me I was wrong, but when I pointed out the dates were off the computer he got very anxious and said he would call me back. Turned out the first lady had been right. 

The trip being cancelled wasn't what bothered me, however, as they state very clearly that the trip isn't guaranteed until there are 8 people and as of a couple months ago I knew there were only three. What bothered me was that at that point, I asked if I should switch trips because others were filing up. The trip coordinator said no. Of course, by time the trip was cancelled all the other trips were booked except for one in late October (when my daughter is back in school). I was pretty furious. I felt that they should have let me know when it looked as if our trip wasn't going to go and the other trips started filling up--especially after I enquired about it. 

I was give the option of an immediate refund or putting toward another trip. Not great options given that my daughter has been dying to see MP and she's studying archaeology at university. They couldn't squeeze us onto another trip because of the fact that the mountain lodges only have 6 rooms. 

Anyway, I was *not* a happy camper, to say the least and expressed by extreme disappointment. 

The good news is that the next day I remembered that REI did a very similar trip--pretty much identical--and they had space in a trip about a week before we had been scheduled to go with Nat Geo. It was also already guaranteed to go so I was able to make some pretty awesome plane reservations that I'd found a few days before. I will also be able to report back with another travel company.

In the end it worked out. Nat Geo is supposedly sending me some kind of compensation letter, but as I'd used a bounce back $500pp offer to originally book that is now gone, we'll see how it compares. 

I'm still looking at that private Nat Geo Japan trip if ABD doesn't look good, but it's a good reminder that no travel company is perfect. I do hope they improve their communication going forward for things like this though. I'd actually asked about moving, which makes it worse.


----------



## cadien

Just an FYI because I know some people find this kind of information gathering interesting.

I'm just off a Disney cruise and received the email survey. After asking me some questions about my familiarity with Adventures by Disney, it asked me which of the following alternatives I was aware of:
Tauck
Hilton Grand Vacations
Abercrombie & Kent
Butterfield & Robinson
Marriott Vacation Club
Trafalgar Tours

That was followed by this question:
Please indicate your interest in each of the following during the time frames listed: 1-2 years, 3-5, 5+, nope.
A guided tour with _Adventures by Disney
Walt Disney World_ Resort in Florida
_Disneyland_ Resort in California
Aulani, A Disney Resort and Spa in Hawaii
A guided tour with Abercrombie & Kent
A guided tour with Tauck


----------



## tink1970

cadien said:


> Just an FYI because I know some people find this kind of information gathering interesting.



I find this really interesting!

I hope I get a survey like that after my next cruise...I am feeling more loyalalty towards Tauck since they don't have dynamic pricing and do provide the "gift of time."

We check in for our flights for Ireland with Tauck in 23 days so I'm starting to get excited


----------



## skittlesfirehawk

Does anyone have reccomendations for tour companies that do adults only tours


----------



## carpenta

Tauck.


----------



## BluesTraveler

Anyone have experience with this company?  I've just reached out to them via their website about putting together a France trip over our spring break.  (ABD's London/Paris trip would have been the perfect option, but it starts on a Friday, meaning we'd have to pull the kids out of school Thursday/Friday - not sure why ABD did that.)

https://www.kensingtontours.com/


----------



## SirDuff

BluesTraveler said:


> Anyone have experience with this company?  I've just reached out to them via their website about putting together a France trip over our spring break.  (ABD's London/Paris trip would have been the perfect option, but it starts on a Friday, meaning we'd have to pull the kids out of school Thursday/Friday - not sure why ABD did that.)
> 
> https://www.kensingtontours.com/



I don't, but a friend works for them (she's based in Canada and focuses mainly on Africa, I believe).  From what she says, they sound good (but then, they would from here, wouldn't they).


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

BluesTraveler said:


> Anyone have experience with this company?  I've just reached out to them via their website about putting together a France trip over our spring break.  (ABD's London/Paris trip would have been the perfect option, but it starts on a Friday, meaning we'd have to pull the kids out of school Thursday/Friday - not sure why ABD did that.)
> 
> https://www.kensingtontours.com/



I haven't used them personally, but I met a girl skiing in Whistler in February who has used them extensively.  She travels solo and has Kensington put together her itineraries when she goes abroad.  She was a lovely person and spoke VERY highly about Kensington (she takes exotic 2 trips abroad a year) -- so much so that their name really stuck in my mind.  They are the company I used to put together a sample Japan itinerary for me in case the ABD didn't work out for us and they were wonderful to work with -- very knowledgeable, quick response time, plenty of details and prices seemed in line with what I had expected.  

HTH.


----------



## BluesTraveler

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I haven't used them personally, but I met a girl skiing in Whistler in February who has used them extensively.  She travels solo and has Kensington put together her itineraries when she goes abroad.  She was a lovely person and spoke VERY highly about Kensington (she takes exotic 2 trips abroad a year) -- so much so that their name really stuck in my mind.  They are the company I used to put together a sample Japan itinerary for me in case the ABD didn't work out for us and they were wonderful to work with -- very knowledgeable, quick response time, plenty of details and prices seemed in line with what I had expected.
> 
> HTH.


Great, thanks very much.


----------



## disneyphx

I had Kensington put together an itinerary for me once - it was very expensive, and from what I recall was hotels+transfers+half day trips. I think it was for Italy and Croatia.....


----------



## OhanaCuz

I’ve now done two Amawaterways cruises: one with Disney (Danube) and one without (Rhine). More than one person expressed (I remember @sayhello and @tink1970 were some) they’d be interested in hearing the differences so here are my thoughts.  I want to stress that we LOVED our ABD river cruise. The reason we chose Ama-only for the second cruise was because of the single supplement. We didn't have an even-number of people going. It was absolutely brutal for one person to get their own room and with the Ama cruise it was only a couple of hundred bucks more for a single person to get a two-person room with the deal we got (that we booked WAY in advance). I’m not going to compare “good and bad” because I think it’s more “same and different”.  We enjoyed both experiences but both cruises were very different.


Same


Staff and food - The Amawaterways staff is top notch and eating is a huge part of the fun.


Boats - I love the layouts of Amawaterways ships with the French balconies.


Welcome package before cruise - Was actually kind of shocked the Ama one was the same considering the Disney cruise was way more expensive. Got a booklet, luggage tags, and a little pouch. I feel Disney is really dropping the ball here based on reading what the welcome packages used to be like (backpacks, etc).  

Different


Welcome package during cruise - It was nice getting a duffel bag from Disney.


Type of Excursions - The Ama cruise hit enough of the “fun” spots that Disney goes to (such as the gondola and Mechanical Museum) that I didn’t feel like we were missing out on too many of them but there were no crazy activities like horse wagon rides or Baumkronenweg.


Number of Excursions - After coming from a Disney cruise where we did EVERY excursion we could possibly do it was a shock to see that some days only had a 3 hour tour and that was it!  You figured out the rest yourself. I thought this was good and bad.  The Disney days were jam packed and we were exhausted when we came back after a long day.  We experienced so much and didn’t have to spend any extra money.  On the flip side we didn’t get to do much shopping or lounging.


Sailing days - I only remember one sailing afternoon on the Disney cruise.  With the Ama one there were several sailing afternoons or mornings.  I found it incredibly relaxing to sit in a lounge chair and watch Europe go by.


Fellow cruisers - The Ama cruise skewed MUCH older than the Disney one.


Pins - I was like a kid on Christmas morning running back to my room every night to see the new collectible pin on my pillow.  I’d be lying if I said I didn’t miss that.


Adventure guides - It was a great luxury having two adventure guides and a local guide. During the tours one of them would stay in the back and make sure people didn’t get left behind. When we came back to the bus they would hand out snacks and water. On excursions we would laugh with them and be silly. On the Ama excursions it was usually just a local guide.  There were no snacks and no one to watch for stragglers.  The cruise manager on the Ama cruise played a much bigger role in excursions and went with us. We really got to know the adventure guides during the cruise and there wasn’t anything like that with Ama counterparts.


Kids - Zero children on the Ama cruise.


Cost - Ama cruise was cheaper.
Photos - It was a huge luxury having the adventure guides constantly taking photos and assisting with photos with our devices.
Tips - Not included with Ama cruise.


----------



## tink1970

Great summary @OhanaCuz! Thanks for taking the time to report after your trip


----------



## sayhello

I agree!  Thanks @OhanaCuz!

Sayhello


----------



## tgeorge

OhanaCuz said:


> I’ve now done two Amawaterways cruises: one with Disney (Danube) and one without (Rhine). More than one person expressed (I remember @sayhello and @tink1970 were some) they’d be interested in hearing the differences so here are my thoughts.  I want to stress that we LOVED our ABD river cruise. The reason we chose Ama-only for the second cruise was because of the single supplement. We didn't have an even-number of people going. It was absolutely brutal for one person to get their own room and with the Ama cruise it was only a couple of hundred bucks more for a single person to get a two-person room with the deal we got (that we booked WAY in advance). I’m not going to compare “good and bad” because I think it’s more “same and different”.  We enjoyed both experiences but both cruises were very different.
> 
> 
> Same
> 
> 
> Staff and food - The Amawaterways staff is top notch and eating is a huge part of the fun.
> 
> 
> Boats - I love the layouts of Amawaterways ships with the French balconies.
> 
> 
> Welcome package before cruise - Was actually kind of shocked the Ama one was the same considering the Disney cruise was way more expensive. Got a booklet, luggage tags, and a little pouch. I feel Disney is really dropping the ball here based on reading what the welcome packages used to be like (backpacks, etc).
> 
> Different
> 
> 
> Welcome package during cruise - It was nice getting a duffel bag from Disney.
> 
> 
> Type of Excursions - The Ama cruise hit enough of the “fun” spots that Disney goes to (such as the gondola and Mechanical Museum) that I didn’t feel like we were missing out on too many of them but there were no crazy activities like horse wagon rides or Baumkronenweg.
> 
> 
> Number of Excursions - After coming from a Disney cruise where we did EVERY excursion we could possibly do it was a shock to see that some days only had a 3 hour tour and that was it!  You figured out the rest yourself. I thought this was good and bad.  The Disney days were jam packed and we were exhausted when we came back after a long day.  We experienced so much and didn’t have to spend any extra money.  On the flip side we didn’t get to do much shopping or lounging.
> 
> 
> Sailing days - I only remember one sailing afternoon on the Disney cruise.  With the Ama one there were several sailing afternoons or mornings.  I found it incredibly relaxing to sit in a lounge chair and watch Europe go by.
> 
> 
> Fellow cruisers - The Ama cruise skewed MUCH older than the Disney one.
> 
> 
> Pins - I was like a kid on Christmas morning running back to my room every night to see the new collectible pin on my pillow.  I’d be lying if I said I didn’t miss that.
> 
> 
> Adventure guides - It was a great luxury having two adventure guides and a local guide. During the tours one of them would stay in the back and make sure people didn’t get left behind. When we came back to the bus they would hand out snacks and water. On excursions we would laugh with them and be silly. On the Ama excursions it was usually just a local guide.  There were no snacks and no one to watch for stragglers.  The cruise manager on the Ama cruise played a much bigger role in excursions and went with us. We really got to know the adventure guides during the cruise and there wasn’t anything like that with Ama counterparts.
> 
> 
> Kids - Zero children on the Ama cruise.
> 
> 
> Cost - Ama cruise was cheaper.
> Photos - It was a huge luxury having the adventure guides constantly taking photos and assisting with photos with our devices.
> Tips - Not included with Ama cruise.



Thank you so much for this! I’ve gone back and forth with this trying to decide which way to go when we do a river cruise.


----------



## OhanaCuz

tink1970 said:


> Great summary @OhanaCuz! Thanks for taking the time to report after your trip





sayhello said:


> I agree!  Thanks @OhanaCuz!





tgeorge said:


> Thank you so much for this! I’ve gone back and forth with this trying to decide which way to go when we do a river cruise.



Thanks!  It was a really hard decision for us.  While we had a great time we really missed certain Disney touches and are looking forward to another ABD someday.


----------



## tgeorge

OhanaCuz said:


> Thanks!  It was a really hard decision for us.  While we had a great time we really missed certain Disney touches and are looking forward to another ABD someday.



The part that sealed the deal for me for ABD was when you mentioned the excursions. That is exactly what I needed to hear to push me towards the ABD. It is so nice to hear from someone who has done both and can make a true comparison.


----------



## OhanaCuz

tgeorge said:


> The part that sealed the deal for me for ABD was when you mentioned the excursions. That is exactly what I needed to hear to push me towards the ABD. It is so nice to hear from someone who has done both and can make a true comparison.



Glad I could help.  You'll have a great time!


----------



## Calfan

We received our final pre-departure package today for or Nat Geo family trip to Peru.  A few months ago, we had received some preliminary information with a Peru guide book and country map.  This package contained luggage tags and engraved name tags that attach magnetically, along with a neoprene Nat Geo pouch (that I can add to my collection of three previous pouches from prior trips, lol).  But we also got a list of participants on our trip. There are 13 total, so I'm super excited about the small group size.  Looks like two families, our family of four and another family of five, plus two pairs traveling together.  From the names, they look to be all women, so I'm guessing either friends, mother/daughter or sisters.  Guess we'll find out in just under a month!  We have both an expedition leader and a young explorer leader for our group of 13.  The package included letters from each.  Our expedition leader was born and raised in Cuzco and spent 18 years as a trekking guide in Peru.  Can't wait for this trip to start!!


----------



## acndis

We just got our pre-departure pack from Austin Adventures.  They previously sent luggage tags and a spiral bound itinerary.  Yesterday, we got 3 dri-fit shirts and a back pack filled with fun items (hacky sack, blank notebook, pen, etc.)  It really got us excited!  About 30 days until Belize!


----------



## BluesTraveler

Calfan said:


> We received our final pre-departure package today for or Nat Geo family trip to Peru.  A few months ago, we had received some preliminary information with a Peru guide book and country map.  This package contained luggage tags and engraved name tags that attach magnetically, along with a neoprene Nat Geo pouch (that I can add to my collection of three previous pouches from prior trips, lol).  But we also got a list of participants on our trip. There are 13 total, so I'm super excited about the small group size.  Looks like two families, our family of four and another family of five, plus two pairs traveling together.  From the names, they look to be all women, so I'm guessing either friends, mother/daughter or sisters.  Guess we'll find out in just under a month!  We have both an expedition leader and a young explorer leader for our group of 13.  The package included letters from each.  Our expedition leader was born and raised in Cuzco and spent 18 years as a trekking guide in Peru.  Can't wait for this trip to start!!



Please post a mini-review of this when you get back!!  I have a ridiculously long list of possibilities for summer 2019, but Family Peru with Nat Geo is on the list.  (I also just got an e-mail that Nat Geo's dates for 2019 are up now, if anyone else has been waiting for those).  

Our summer 2019 current list, in case anyone has experience/input:
A&K China (dates not out yet)
A&K Switzerland (dates not out yet)
A&K Spain (dates not out yet)
Nat Geo Ireland (new trip - they just released details)
Nat Geo Peru
Tauck Peru
Tauck Seine riverboat (although already getting so booked up might not be an option)
ABD Greece 
ABD Vietnam 
London/Paris on our own (unlikely since these are easy to do over spring break when family group travel isn't available but still on our list)

The ABD ones are unlikely since we've missed opening day prices and I'd have a hard time paying more, BUT they are on the list just in case we come back from Iceland feeling like we just have to do another ABD.


----------



## Calfan

BluesTraveler said:


> Please post a mini-review of this when you get back!!  I have a ridiculously long list of possibilities for summer 2019, but Family Peru with Nat Geo is on the list.



I definitely will! This will be our first family trip with Nat Geo.  My previous three Nat Geo trips have all been hiking trips.

ETA:  I should also have mentioned that we are doing the Amazon extension with this trip.


----------



## WishUponAStarryNight

acndis said:


> We just got our pre-departure pack from Austin Adventures.  They previously sent luggage tags and a spiral bound itinerary.  Yesterday, we got 3 dri-fit shirts and a back pack filled with fun items (hacky sack, blank notebook, pen, etc.)  It really got us excited!  About 30 days until Belize!


So exciting!  We're just over 3 weeks until Yellowstone with AA, but haven't received anything other than the initial luggage tags and itinerary.  I wonder if we'll get anything before arriving in Yellowstone.  I understand we'll get some things (shirts, water bottles) after we arrive.


----------



## Calfan

WishUponAStarryNight said:


> So exciting!  We're just over 3 weeks until Yellowstone with AA, but haven't received anything other than the initial luggage tags and itinerary.  I wonder if we'll get anything before arriving in Yellowstone.  I understand we'll get some things (shirts, water bottles) after we arrive.



Our experience was similar to yours with the AA Winter Yellowstone Family trip we did in Dec./Jan.  Prior to the trip, we received trip info and luggage tags.  We received water bottles at our first group trip gathering, and we received t-shirts at our farewell slide show presentation.  We also received a bunch of goodies in our room at the Old Faithful Snow Lodge.


----------



## acndis

Calfan said:


> Our experience was similar to yours with the AA Winter Yellowstone Family trip we did in Dec./Jan.  Prior to the trip, we received trip info and luggage tags.  We received water bottles at our first group trip gathering, and we received t-shirts at our farewell slide show presentation.  We also received a bunch of goodies in our room at the Old Faithful Snow Lodge.


Maybe we got it now because it is an international departure (Belize) and it is a custom instead of group!  Have a great time in Yellowstone and please report back!


----------



## DCPhotoGal

BluesTraveler said:


> Please post a mini-review of this when you get back!!  I have a ridiculously long list of possibilities for summer 2019, but Family Peru with Nat Geo is on the list.  (I also just got an e-mail that Nat Geo's dates for 2019 are up now, if anyone else has been waiting for those).
> 
> Our summer 2019 current list, in case anyone has experience/input:
> A&K China (dates not out yet)
> A&K Switzerland (dates not out yet)
> A&K Spain (dates not out yet)
> Nat Geo Ireland (new trip - they just released details)
> Nat Geo Peru
> Tauck Peru
> Tauck Seine riverboat (although already getting so booked up might not be an option)
> ABD Greece
> ABD Vietnam
> London/Paris on our own (unlikely since these are easy to do over spring break when family group travel isn't available but still on our list)
> 
> The ABD ones are unlikely since we've missed opening day prices and I'd have a hard time paying more, BUT they are on the list just in case we come back from Iceland feeling like we just have to do another ABD.



We are doing the August 2019 ABD Vietnam... come join us


----------



## AquamarineSteph

We did G Adventures/National Geographic in Morocco earlier this year.  (12 people + a guide)  We're taking the same company to Ecuador.  I love the very small groups which they have!


----------



## CaliKris

AquamarineSteph said:


> We did G Adventures/National Geographic in Morocco earlier this year.  (12 people + a guide)  We're taking the same company to Ecuador.  I love the very small groups which they have!


How was the National Geo trip?  I have looked at their Morocco trip and have been considering it.  How are the accommodations and transportation?


----------



## EllinK

WishUponAStarryNight said:


> So exciting!  We're just over 3 weeks until Yellowstone with AA, but haven't received anything other than the initial luggage tags and itinerary.  I wonder if we'll get anything before arriving in Yellowstone.  I understand we'll get some things (shirts, water bottles) after we arrive.


If you are up for it, I would love to read a mini review of this trip.


----------



## WishUponAStarryNight

EllinK said:


> If you are up for it, I would love to read a mini review of this trip.


I will report back, for sure!


----------



## AquamarineSteph

CaliKris said:


> How was the National Geo trip?  I have looked at their Morocco trip and have been considering it.  How are the accommodations and transportation?



Transportation was excellent.  We had the same bus driver, Mohammed, for the entire tour.  He was an excellent driver.  The bus was comfy and had room for our luggage in the space below our seats (as opposed to our Costa Rica trip where we had a smaller bus and the luggage was tied on top of the bus.)  And the camel ride was incredible, although you'll want to wear sunglasses and maybe a scarf if you do the camel ride due to the blowing sand.

The accommodations varied a bit.  The initial hotel was fine.  The hotel on the edge of the Sahara (we did the 9 day, not the 15 day tour) was very basic.  As in, take some shampoo from the hotel before that one because this hotel does not provide it.  Because of their location - and you literally are in the desert - the hot water is only available for certain hours.  To me this made the hotel more exotic because we were truly in the middle of nowhere in that respect.

The best hotel was the one right after that in Ouarzazate.  Not to say that the previous hotels were lacking in any respect, but this was one was simply gorgeous.  

Our tour guide was wonderful.  The local guides were fabulous as in some of the best local guides we've ever had on a tour. 

There aren't a lot of optional activities on this tour.  The camel ride was extra.  There were a couple of optional walking tours (free), but otherwise almost all of the activities were the ones included in the tour itinerary.  

If you do this trip, be aware that many places in Morocco are cash only.


----------



## CaliKris

Thanks so much for the information @AquamarineSteph!  We really want to go to Morocco and ABD does not go there.  We looked at Tauck but are worried it might skew older (my daughter is 24).  She really wants to see the blue city up near Tangier.  It doesn't look like they go there, but maybe we could fit it in before or after the trip. 

The transportation sounds great!  We looked at the photos on the Nat. Geo. site and there is one of a van with luggage on top.  It worried me that this might be the transportation for the entire trip!  There is also a 12 day National Geo Morocco trip that is rated premium level service.  My heart likes the "premium" but my pocketbook prefers the "casual" level


----------



## AquamarineSteph

CaliKris said:


> Thanks so much for the information @AquamarineSteph!  We really want to go to Morocco and ABD does not go there.  We looked at Tauck but are worried it might skew older (my daughter is 24).  She really wants to see the blue city up near Tangier.  It doesn't look like they go there, but maybe we could fit it in before or after the trip.
> 
> The transportation sounds great!  We looked at the photos on the Nat. Geo. site and there is one of a van with luggage on top.  It worried me that this might be the transportation for the entire trip!  There is also a 12 day National Geo Morocco trip that is rated premium level service.  My heart likes the "premium" but my pocketbook prefers the "casual" level



I've done ABD, Tauck, Rick Steves & G Adventures/National Geographic.  Other than the fact you have to carry your own luggage around, I found the attention to detail plus the guides with G Adv/National Geo to be equal to all but one ABD which we took.  They were far superior (in my experience) to the Tauck tour we did.  (And in our experience, there were a lot of older people on the Tauck tour.  One family did bring their adult grandson.  He was the only truly young person on the tour.)

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions!


ETA:  I was having problems getting my reply to post.  Four ladies in our group did the blue city after the tour.  I can't remember if they were flying or driving, but I heard from one of them afterwards that they had an amazing time!


----------



## tracyz

DCPhotoGal said:


> We are doing the August 2019 ABD Vietnam... come join us


DCPHotoGal, are you on the 8/4/19 departure?  We're on that trip!


----------



## DCPhotoGal

tracyz said:


> DCPHotoGal, are you on the 8/4/19 departure?  We're on that trip!



Yes!  It will be me, my husband, and my daughters will be 14 and 15 (yikes!) next summer.


----------



## tracyz

DCPhotoGal said:


> Yes!  It will be me, my husband, and my daughters will be 14 and 15 (yikes!) next summer.


Oh, YAY!  It will be me, my husband, and our daughter who will be 17 (yikes too!) at the time.  I'm so glad to be able to connect with someone before the trip!!


----------



## laceltris3

We are finishing up our TB Ireland trip and it was amazing. It was truly amazing and the family sports day followed by the Ballymaloe cooking school was amazing. We got to learn a bit bout hurling and my son got to play in the demonstration match. The Irish people were all so lovely, and our guide Scott was incredible.

Our experience with food allergies was much better than on our previous Costa Rica trip. My husband is pretty hyped on TB now and is completely uninterested in doing ABD. But we are still planning on the ABD Danube River Cruise next year. 2020 is now in play and we are looking at TB Italy, or if the dates work out, maybe TB Peru and BSM.


----------



## quinnc19

I like the TB itinerary best for Peru, and I'm also considering it for 2020. We are doing Backroads Yellowstone and Grand Teton, and adding on Glacier National Park on our own, for next year. We are doing ABD Rhine Cruise this year, leaving Tuesday!


----------



## tink1970

laceltris3 said:


> We are finishing up our TB Ireland trip and it was amazing. It was truly amazing and the family sports day followed by the Ballymaloe cooking school was amazing. We got to learn a bit bout hurling and my son got to play in the demonstration match. The Irish people were all so lovely, and our guide Scott was incredible.
> 
> Our experience with food allergies was much better than on our previous Costa Rica trip. My husband is pretty hyped on TB now and is completely uninterested in doing ABD. But we are still planning on the ABD Danube River Cruise next year. 2020 is now in play and we are looking at TB Italy, or if the dates work out, maybe TB Peru and BSM.



We fly home from our regular Tauck Ireland trip Tuesday (waving from Dublin). I'm planning on scribbling a few notes when I return (darn fat thumbs and small phone keyboard).

I will say now that Dromoland is wonderful-my DH left half my clothes in the closet since he was packing us up and they found a staff member headed to Dublin and drove them over to The Shelbourne-- outstanding service for sure!

DD finally decided on the Danube River Cruise ABD next June for graduation so we'll be on that 6/21-28.

Safe travels home!


----------



## Woodview

To     Laceltris3     & tink1970

  I am delighted  that you all had a great time ...

  And as for the  weather           ...... Wow      ........    Hot  .


----------



## laceltris3

tink1970 said:


> We fly home from our regular Tauck Ireland trip Tuesday (waving from Dublin). I'm planning on scribbling a few notes when I return (darn fat thumbs and small phone keyboard).
> 
> I will say now that Dromoland is wonderful-my DH left half my clothes in the closet since he was packing us up and they found a staff member headed to Dublin and drove them over to The Shelbourne-- outstanding service for sure!
> 
> DD finally decided on the Danube River Cruise ABD next June for graduation so we'll be on that 6/21-28.
> 
> Safe travels home!




Safe travels to you as well. We are also on the Danube June 21 so we will see you there, even though we missed each other in Ireland.


----------



## laceltris3

Woodview said:


> To     Laceltris3     & tink1970
> 
> I am delighted  that you all had a great time ...
> 
> And as for the  weather           ...... Wow      ........    Hot  .



We only saw a bit of rain on Friday morning and that was it for the entire trip. Some on our trip surprisingly got a bit sunburned. We are from Texas so it was comfortable for us, but it made for a wonderful trip.


----------



## tink1970

We just returned from the Small Group Tauck Ireland 7 Day trip (this had no children).  It was a "small group" which has no more than 24 and 5 dropped out so there were 19 of us. It was really nice to have such a small group. By the end, it was very cohesive bunch and tardiness wasn't an issue (unlike some other tours). Briefly, just a few thoughts:

1) Tauck has only one tour guide, a driver and sometimes additional, local guides (we had them in Dublin, Glenadough, and Ft Charles). The local guides were excellent, and our tour guide was definitely not as good as some of our favorite ABD guides (we've had 11 ABD guides) but not as annoying as our least favorite ABD guide (name withheld!). I would say she was solidly average.

2) Food was fairly good-but I'm no foodie so I'm happy with pretty basic fare. Most lunches and dinners had alcohol included, iirc...I don't drink so didn't really differentiate the meals where they weren't. 

3) Activities were varied and I felt there was enough free time balanced with coach drives and activities.  The EPIC Museum was interesting, as was Ft Charles and Glenadough. The Book of Kells was chaotic and I was glad I'd been previously. It was super foggy at the Cliffs of Moher and again, I was happy I'd been before since many in our group were very disappointed they didn't get to view it. 

4) Accommodations-we stayed at Dromoland, Hayfield Manor and The Shelbourne. Our room at Dromoland had no a/c in a rather warm time so The Shelbourne's was greatly appreciated (who knew?). The staff at Dromoland and Hayfield Manor were wonderful, and the Shelbourne was also quite nice and had a great location.  

5) Tauck is slightly less than ABD and does not have dynamic pricing. The company also awards the "gift of time" which is a pre or post night hotel stay on them. We took advantage of this and had an extra night at Dromoland Castle. I do believe we received our money's worth and was pleased overall with our experience (second with Tauck overall, first small group/adult only tour).

Our next vacations are DCL, ABD River Cruise, DCL and DCL...so not sure when we'll do Tauck again but I definitely won't rule it out! 

Hopefully this is helpful for someone since there isn't a lot of information out there.


----------



## WishUponAStarryNight

We are just back from our Yellowstone Family Adventure with Austin Adventures.  I have to say, it exceeded all of my expectations! The trip was amazing in nearly every way.  That being said, this is our first family adventure vacation, so I don't have anything to compare it to, but it was great.

Our group had a total of 18 people, 7 kids. DS7 and I were the only small family in the group.  The others were a multi-generational family group of 9 and another multi-generational family group of 7.  I knew this going in and was a little concerned DS and I would be isolated a bit, but that was not the case at all.  The other families took us in and we were sad to say goodbye at the end.

Our three guides were terrific. They were our guides, chauffeurs, porters, chefs, friends and more. At the last minute, one of the more experienced AA guides was switched to a different trip and, in his place, we had a guide who was in his first year with AA.  I'm sure the experience would have been somewhat different had we not had a guide switch, but I'm not sure it would have been much better.  Ali, who I'll call our "lead guide" was amazing - I can't say enough good things about her. She knew the area very well and was an incredible people manager.  Our other two guides didn't have the same depth of knowledge about Yellowstone as Ali, but when we were with them, we absolutely felt safe and well informed.  These guides were some of the most genuine, compassionate, supportive and patient people I've ever met. Truly wonderful people and we'll miss them.  

The logistics were seamless. We had many hotel transfers (not ideal, but the best way to see the park) and they were handled beautifully.  All but one dinner was included.  We had three included restaurant dinners, two where we had reservations and one on our own time.  One dinner was a cookout prepared by the guides (complete with an apple pie warmed up on the grill). For our restaurant meals, we received coupons entitling us to breakfast and/or dinner and we could choose from the menu.  Lunches were prepared by our guides.  We had pulled pork, a taco fiesta, pizza, a sandwich picnic on the trail, and a Greek-themed lunch - all fantastic with lots of options to choose from.  We traveled in two 12-passenger "self-cleaning" vans (every night they were cleaned and vacuumed and spotless the next morning), complete with healthy and not so healthy snacks.  We never had to backtrack to get back to the vans as they would "magically" appear at the end of the trail.

Our days were full. We didn't have much down time at all, but I can't think of one activity I would have wanted to skip.  Ziplining and white water rafting were so much fun.  The horseback ride, though long, was great as well.  I learned that the guides at the ranch run tours only for the AA groups and a couple of their private clients.  The hikes were of varying length and difficulty (though none was too hard or long for a 7 year old).  Many reviews of Yellowstone complain of crowds in the summer making it nearly impossible to enjoy the park.  Well, on our 4+ mile hike, we saw maybe 20 other people the entire time. AA knows how to take you through the park so you see some of the most amazing things and you do it without the crowds.  One of our hikes ended at one of the parking areas/viewing platforms.  While people were struggling to find parking, we were enjoying yogurt parfaits prepared by the guides.  It was at that point that I realized the value of a guided tour and I'm hard-pressed to believe that anyone can do Yellowstone better than AA.  Some of the grandparents opted out of the trail hikes near the end of the trip and one guide would stay back with them and take them to areas more easily accessible by them so they didn't miss out on some of the highlights - a testament to the value of a small guest to guide ratio.

The little things mattered, too.  On our first day, we each received water bottles and the kids got backpacks filled with all sorts of goodies.  We received Yellowstone books along the way and notes left in our room.  On the last night, our guides left a bottle of wine for me and a bag of DS' favorite chips.  One of the kids on the trip was a little tough to deal with - not mean, just overbearing in many ways.  I had chatted with the guides about my frustration not expecting them to do anything about it (they do work for tips, after all), but they really helped us manage through it and the treats at the end were a thank you for our patience.  Not necessary at all.  Personalities don't always mesh on group travel and smaller group travel can certainly magnify it, but the guides were very empathetic and I am so thankful to them for their kindness.  DS is an extremely picky eater and the guides went above and beyond to work with him (I was more than willing to wait him out - there was plenty of food to eat and I figured he'd eat when he got hungry).  I mentioned in passing that he doesn't even like cheese on his pizza.  Well, one day we had pizza for lunch and, lo and behold, they'd gotten him a pizza just the way he likes it.

I absolutely will consider AA in the future.  I do get the impression that the North American parks itineraries are likely their strongest trips, though.  I've got a trip to Costa Rica booked for next year with Thomson and I'm excited to compare the two (though I would be lying if I didn't admit that I've got a little bit of buyer's remorse on the Thomson trip given how amazing AA was).  I'm happy to answer any questions and would 100% recommend this trip.


----------



## Ava

@WishUponAStarryNight Thank you for the great review! I've been eyeing AA's national parks trips for a while now, but my youngest is still a bit too young. She turned 5 this May, so we're getting there! I'm glad to read that your 7-year-old was able to keep up with the hikes. Were there any activities he wasn't able to do? I know some things like zip lining, rafting, etc have a minimum age or height/weight requirement.


----------



## BluesTraveler

@WishUponAStarryNight - thanks for the great write up.  Glad it was an outstanding trip, I always enjoy reading about people's travels.


----------



## WishUponAStarryNight

Ava said:


> @WishUponAStarryNightI know some things like zip lining, rafting, etc have a minimum age or height/weight requirement.


DS is on the small side. He wasn’t restricted in any way. We were new to zip lining, rafting and horseback riding and DS was well taken care of. He wanted to zip line on his own instead of tandem, so they attached extra water bottles to him to add some weight.


----------



## Ava

WishUponAStarryNight said:


> DS is on the small side. He wasn’t restricted in any way. We were new to zip lining, rafting and horseback riding and DS was well taken care of. He wanted to zip line on his own instead of tandem, so they attached extra water bottles to him to add some weight.


Haha, love it! My younger DD is a light-weight for her age, too.


----------



## acndis

I am in Belize right now with Austin Adventures and it has been beyond amazing. It is a custom departure trip which we have loved. It has exceeded our expectations in every way. I will write a summary soon to give more details!


----------



## Calfan

And we are just back from our Peru family trip with Nat Geo, and it was phenomenal! We were pretty blown away by the level of service.  I’m exhausted after nearly 24 hours of travel and 4 flights to get from the Amazaon back to Boise, ID, but I will definitely give a more detailed report once I come up for air.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

acndis said:


> I am in Belize right now with Austin Adventures and it has been beyond amazing. It is a custom departure trip which we have loved. It has exceeded our expectations in every way. I will write a summary soon to give more details!





Calfan said:


> And we are just back from our Peru family trip with Nat Geo, and it was phenomenal! We were pretty blown away by the level of service.  I’m exhausted after nearly 24 hours of travel and 4 flights to get from the Amazaon back to Boise, ID, but I will definitely give a more detailed report once I come up for air.



Can't wait to hear from both of you! I love all these positive reviews of other companies. It's great to have so many choices!


----------



## Calfan

Got some sleep last night, and no jet lag to speak of because there is only a one-hour time difference between Boise and Peru, so that is really nice.  And work is slow today, so here is my more detailed post on our family Peru trip with Nat Geo.

First off, Peru was really awesome.  We were mostly in the Andes region (and we also did the Amazon extension through Nat Geo), so there is lots of the country we didn't see, but what we saw was very very cool.  The top two highlights for me were Machu Picchu (of course) and the Maras salt terraces, but Cusco was very cool, and all of the Incan ruins are incredible.  The food was also very good.

The Nat Geo family trip was fantastic.  One thing that really stood out were the guides (as I've found on the three hiking trips I've done with Nat Geo).  Plus, guide tips were INCLUDED (along with any other kind of tip for hotel staff, etc.), which was huge and I hadn't quite realized it beforehand (even though it was in the information provided), so it felt like getting a bunch of money back at the end of the trip   The guide/guest ratio was also fantastic.  We had 13 in our group, with one expedition leader, one assistant guide, one logistics person (who also took a lot of pictures that are going to be emailed to us) and a full-time driver, so it seemed there were always Nat Geo people around.  Our expedition leader, Juan Manuel, was really personable and so so knowledgeable about everything Peru, from culture, to politics/government, to education, to flora, fauna, food.  Whatever you asked, he knew the answer, and he was great about sharing interesting information but not droning on, lol.  And the assistant guide, Fabrizio was also great to talk to and also great with the kids.  We did end up tipping each a bit extra (but were the only family to do so). Maybe about a quarter to a third of what I had originally been planning for guide tips.  Juan Manual carried my (not so light) overnight bag for Machu Picchu everywhere and was just great in general. And Fabrizio took my DH on the strenuous hike option up Machu Picchu Mountain when everyone else either opted for the Sun Gate hike or to skip hiking altogether. 

Nat Geo also went over the top with gifts.  On the night of our farewell dinner, we came back to find a set of ceramic bulls for DH and me (the bulls are a very typical symbol of prosperity in Peru, and you will see them all over on rooftops) and stuffed alpacas (the kind with real, really soft alpaca fur) for each of the kids plus a keychain of typical Peruvian design.  That was nice enough, but as we were leaving Cusco to head to the Amazon, we were given more gifts, and one was a REALLY nice bronze llama with a silver collar from a really upscale silver store in Cusco.  We had bought a silver alpaca from the same store for ourselves, so now we have an awesome set.  The one they gave us had to cost at least $150, if not more.  And they give the kids really nice coffee table type books on Machu Picchu.  Plus at both Inkaterra resorts (one in Machu Picchu and the other in the Amazon), we were given a small gift.  One was a belt pouch, and the other was a canvas, cross body bag that we used everywhere in the Amazon instead of our regular day packs since it was so hot and humid and so nice not to have something against your back.  (As an aside, I totally plan to use the cross body bag in Botswana next year as a safari camp bag.)  Obviously, gifts don't make a trip great, but it was an over-the-top nice touch on top of a trip that was already great by virtue of the guides, the itinerary, the way logistics were handled, etc.  Another nice touch that was very small but resonated with me was that in Cusco, I took a picture of two women with baby llamas.  It is customary to give a small tip for this, but I couldn't even get my wallet halfway out of my purse before Fabrizio and Leticia (the logistics person) were waving me off saying Nat Geo had it covered.

And we definitely got the sense that Nat Geo values loyalty.  Juan Manuel mentioned to DH toward the end of the trip that his bosses were pinging him to make sure "the Donalds were happy", lol.  I think it had a lot to do with the fact that this was my fourth Nat Geo trip, but I don't get the same sense of valuing loyalty from ABD, which is sad. 

Our hotels were also all top-notch, and I got the sense we were staying at the best in the Sacred Valley, Aguas Calientes/Machu Picchu and the Amazon.  Our hotel in Cusco was a 5-star as well, and we ended up with connecting rooms that formed a suite with a living room in between, so that was fantastic.  (We had booked as two reservations.  We ended up with adjoining rooms in Lima (just a short overnight before flying out to Cusco with the group the following morning), the Sacred Valley and Cusco.  Neither Inkaterra lodge had adjoining rooms/cabins, but we were right next to each other at each.)

All meals were included, except for our final lunch in the Amazon which technically occurred after our trip had officially ended and while we were waiting for our transfer back to the Puerto Maldonado airport.  I will say I found it a little odd that this final lunch was not included given that most folks are on late-afternoon flights our of Puerto Maldonado, but everything in Peru is reasonably priced, so I'm not going to hold it against Nat Geo.  I know for some the dynamics of group meals can get old, but with only 13 in our group, the group meals were very manageable, and I personally have a bias against having to pay for meals on our own on an already-pricey vacation.  That is another trend with ABD that I find disturbing (i.e., the seemingly ever-increasing number of meals on your own in the ABD itineraries I look at).

My family is definitely sold on Nat Geo, although we will continue the approach of using whatever company we think is best for a particular trip based on group size (must be small), itinerary and feedback, and we have also had very positive experiences on our Thomson and Austin Adventures trips.  I think the only conundrum for us going forward for any of these trips will be that we are definitely outgrowing the family trips.  On this one there were my DD 15 (almost 16) and DS 13 (almost 14) and another 15-year old boy (just six days older than my DD) who bonded really well with my kids and who they enjoyed hanging out with. There was also a 10 year old and 11 year old twins.  They were not obnoxious in any way, but we are just beyond a desire to travel with younger kids and would prefer trips with only teens and up.  So I'm not sure if that means we will try to do adult itineraries in future, or try to request departure dates on family trips with only teens or something like that.  

One interesting piece of information that came out of this trip is that it turns out that Thomson Family Adventures runs Nat Geo's family trips.  I started suspecting this when one of our travel forms for Peru had a Thomson header.  Then our trip coordinator emailed to say she wanted to have a call with us about a week before the trip to give us last-minute tips and answer any questions (another very nice touch!), and her caller ID was Thomson.  She was actually on our trip along with her sister (Thomson wants its coordinators to have experience with the itineraries they are coordinating, which makes tons of sense), so I asked her what the connection is, and she confirmed that Thomson runs Nat Geo's family trips.  Our guides/driver were all decked out in Nat Geo gear, not Thomson stuff, but I'm not positive who they actually work for.

I'm happy to answer questions on any topic I didn't cover or anything else, but we would give this trip with Nat Geo a 5-star review.


----------



## Calfan

WishUponAStarryNight said:


> I absolutely will consider AA in the future.  I do get the impression that the North American parks itineraries are likely their strongest trips, though.  I've got a trip to Costa Rica booked for next year with Thomson and I'm excited to compare the two (though I would be lying if I didn't admit that I've got a little bit of buyer's remorse on the Thomson trip given how amazing AA was).  I'm happy to answer any questions and would 100% recommend this trip.



I totally agree with you about the North American parks itineraries likely being AA's sweet spot and also likely where they excel over other tour operators, but I also want to reassure you about Thomson for Costa Rica.  We haven't done that trip, but we had a fantastic experience with Thomson in China in 2016, and (per my post above), Thomson ran an excellent trip for Nat Geo in Peru, lol.  We've got Thomson booked for Japan in 2020, and I'm confident that will be another very positive experience.


----------



## BluesTraveler

@Calfan , thanks for the excellent write up.  RE: wanting to travel with older kids/teens - have you looked at Backroads?  They have family trips that are specifically for older kids and teens, I think you have to be 13+ to be on them.  We have our first Backroads trip booked this fall so I can't comment on them quite yet, except that working with them during the deciding/booking process has been great.


----------



## Calfan

BluesTraveler said:


> @Calfan , thanks for the excellent write up.  RE: wanting to travel with older kids/teens - have you looked at Backroads?  They have family trips that are specifically for older kids and teens, I think you have to be 13+ to be on them.  We have our first Backroads trip booked this fall so I can't comment on them quite yet, except that working with them during the deciding/booking process has been great.



Great to know. Thanks!  Will be excited to hear your Backroads review after your trip.  I am also recalling that Thomson has itineraries specifically geared to families with teens, so I will have to look more closely at those as well for future trips.


----------



## DCPhotoGal

Calfan said:


> I think the only conundrum for us going forward for any of these trips will be that we are definitely outgrowing the family trips. On this one there were my DD 15 (almost 16) and DS 13 (almost 14) and another 15-year old boy (just six days older than my DD) who bonded really well with my kids and who they enjoyed hanging out with. There was also a 10 year old and 11 year old twins. They were not obnoxious in any way, but we are just beyond a desire to travel with younger kids and would prefer trips with only teens and up. So I'm not sure if that means we will try to do adult itineraries in future, or try to request departure dates on family trips with only teens or something like that.



I am feeling that same way with my kids getting into the teen years.  I would love to hear shat you find in terms for good options for teen-only departures.


----------



## sayhello

Calfan said:


> Great to know. Thanks!  Will be excited to hear your Backroads review after your trip.  I am also recalling that Thomson has itineraries specifically geared to families with teens, so I will have to look more closely at those as well for future trips.


The *only* problem I have with Backroads is that their trips tend to be really short.  Like 5 or 6 days.  I much prefer the ABD trips being 8 or 9 days or more for the exotic trips.

Sayhello


----------



## Calfan

sayhello said:


> The *only* problem I have with Backroads is that their trips tend to be really short.  Like 5 or 6 days.  I much prefer the ABD trips being 8 or 8 days or more for the exotic trips.
> 
> Sayhello



Yes. That could be an issue.  We tend to take a 10-day to 2-week summer trip as our big family vacation.


----------



## sayhello

Calfan said:


> Yes. That could be an issue.  We tend to take a 10-day to 2-week summer trip as our big family vacation.


Same here.  

Sayhello


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

@Calfan What an awesome review. Many of the pluses that you highlighted in comparison to ABD are the same for me. I love love love the fact that the tips were included. That would sell me on a family trip alone, LOL. I hate having to carry extra money for tips and would prefer that the guides be adequately paid by the company. I also love how all the meals are paid for. I'm totally with you on not liking when meals are eliminated from an itinerary. I want to pay one price and be done! My kids are adults now so I totally get it. I would have done an adult only trip with ABD if the dates had worked.

[Edited to add: totally forgot to mention the amazing gifts. Wow!!! That sounds way above and beyond. I'm annoyed by ABD's skimping on the boxes lately, LOL, but those gifts sound fantastic and what a great way to leave your customers happy.]


----------



## BluesTraveler

Calfan said:


> Yes. That could be an issue.  We tend to take a 10-day to 2-week summer trip as our big family vacation.



Yes, I agree with you on that.  One thing I've thought about with our family is doing 5 nights in a city on our own (e.g., London), and then joining a Backroads family trip (e.g., Ireland or Switzerland) for another 5 nights.  But it's definitely easier to join a group from start to finish.


----------



## WishUponAStarryNight

Calfan said:


> We haven't done that trip, but we had a fantastic experience with Thomson in China in 2016, and (per my post above), Thomson ran an excellent trip for Nat Geo in Peru, lol.  We've got Thomson booked for Japan in 2020, and I'm confident that will be another very positive experience.



Thank you! So interesting that Thomson runs the Nat Geo trips. I’ll have to spend some time comparing itineraries....


----------



## tgeorge

@Calfan , thanks for the great info on Nat Geo. We’re going to do a custom Australia itinerary with them for 2021. 2019 and 2020 are already planned with other trips. We were between Japan with ABD or Australia with a custom tour since we couldn’t find one with exactly what we wanted. I’m happy to hear that you really like Nat Geo, they seem to be really good to work with


----------



## laceltris3

Calfan said:


> One interesting piece of information that came out of this trip is that it turns out that Thomson Family Adventures runs Nat Geo's family trips.



I assume that NatGeo takes credit cards for payment? I am sensing a workaround for the Thomson policy...

Peru is *really* high on my list (just waiting for the kids to get a bit older due to the super odd flight times), and we have been looking at TB mostly. This is definitely opening my horizons, though my kids also like to have lots of others to play with...


----------



## DCPhotoGal

WishUponAStarryNight said:


> Thank you! So interesting that Thomson runs the Nat Geo trips. I’ll have to spend some time comparing itineraries....


I think I recall the rep from Thomson telling me that they also used to run the ABD trips at the beginning, but I could be wrong.


----------



## maleficent_fan51

Pre-ABD, Thomson was used by DVC for trips to Tanzania. Members who did this trip said it was spectacular.


----------



## LuckyBelle1

That is great to hear as we leave for Tanzania with Thomson in a month!   One other nice thing about Thomson is that, at least in Tanzania, if the stated trip dates don't work for you, they will do a new trip for dates that do work.   You can then either pay more to keep it private, or let them open it up to others which is what we ended up doing.  We have had one other family of 3 join, so we will be a total group of 8.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

@Calfan we returned from our trip to London / South Africa / Botswana last week.  If you have any questions about Botswana let me know!  I can say that it is a country unlike any other we've been to.  It is so remote and untouched and incredibly beautiful.  The people are warm and friendly and the game viewing is amazing.  I am smitten with the country and would go back in a heartbeat.  Just two things you might find helpful: i) I experienced motion sickness (I have never had motion sickness before) on 2 of the internal flights (between camps we stayed at and on the return to Maun); the return flight to Maun was especially hard on me -- if I went back I'd for sure take something before the flights and ii) be aware of the luggage restrictions and follow them carefully -- our internal airline made people who took hard-sided bags re-pack into duffel bags at the Maun airport before they could board the internal flights (the luggage compartments on those tiny planes are, you guesses it, tiny!).

Where in Botswana are you going?


----------



## Calfan

laceltris3 said:


> I assume that NatGeo takes credit cards for payment? I am sensing a workaround for the Thomson policy...
> 
> Peru is *really* high on my list (just waiting for the kids to get a bit older due to the super odd flight times), and we have been looking at TB mostly. This is definitely opening my horizons, though my kids also like to have lots of others to play with...



Yes, Nat Geo takes credit cards for deposit and balance payments.



DCPhotoGal said:


> I think I recall the rep from Thomson telling me that they also used to run the ABD trips at the beginning, but I could be wrong.



My Thomson rep also told me that Thomson helped design ABD's first trips.



*WDW*Groupie* said:


> @Calfan we returned from our trip to London / South Africa / Botswana last week.  If you have any questions about Botswana let me know!  I can say that it is a country unlike any other we've been to.  It is so remote and untouched and incredibly beautiful.  The people are warm and friendly and the game viewing is amazing.  I am smitten with the country and would go back in a heartbeat.  Just two things you might find helpful: i) I experienced motion sickness (I have never had motion sickness before) on 2 of the internal flights (between camps we stayed at and on the return to Maun); the return flight to Maun was especially hard on me -- if I went back I'd for sure take something before the flights and ii) be aware of the luggage restrictions and follow them carefully -- our internal airline made people who took hard-sided bags re-pack into duffel bags at the Maun airport before they could board the internal flights (the luggage compartments on those tiny planes are, you guesses it, tiny!).
> 
> Where in Botswana are you going?



Go glad to hear your feedback on Botswana!  We chose it because it is more remote and has fewer tourists.  We are doing this itinerary with Natural Habitat Adventures:

https://www.nathab.com/africa/secluded-botswana/itinerary/13-day-itinerary/

We will be visiting Victoria Falls (which I realize is in Zambia/Zimbabwe), the Linyanti Private Reserve in Chobe National Park, the Santawani Private Concession in the Okavango Delta (Gomoti Tented Camp), Pelo Camp also in the Okavango Delta and the Moremi Game Reserve.  I am beyond excited.  I've been dying to go back to Africa since 2001!  Thanks for the heads up on the motion issues on the internal flights.  I did not have any issues on our internal flights on our previous trip to Africa, but I have found that motion is affecting me more as I get older, so we will make sure to have medication with us.  Thanks also for the reminder on the luggage.  Natural Habitat has provided very specific guidelines for baggage, which we plan to follow.


----------



## aggiedog

https://www.classicjourneys.com/iceland-adventure-tour/

I'm very much considering this tour with a friend for next September

I'm also requesting a Natural Habitat brochure for our family vacation in 2020.  Those look really nice.  Have you traveled with them before?


----------



## Calfan

aggiedog said:


> https://www.classicjourneys.com/iceland-adventure-tour/
> 
> I'm very much considering this tour with a friend for next September
> 
> I'm also requesting a Natural Habitat brochure for our family vacation in 2020.  Those look really nice.  Have you traveled with them before?



We have not, but I know people who did their Churchill Polar Bears trip and raved about it.  

If you are thinking about Iceland, you might want to look at Nat Hab's 'Round Iceland itinerary:

https://www.nathab.com/alaska-northern-adventures/iceland-nature-adventure/

This one is under serious consideration for us for 2021.


----------



## TeeKo

sayhello said:


> The *only* problem I have with Backroads is that their trips tend to be really short.  Like 5 or 6 days.  I much prefer the ABD trips being 8 or 9 days or more for the exotic trips.
> 
> Sayhello



Interesting perspective! 
We are looking at Backroads Iceland trip for Spring Break 2019. To fly internationally and not have kids miss any school, the 5 to 6 days are perfect. We’re just not sure if we are athletic enough to do a back roads itinerary....


----------



## sayhello

TeeKo said:


> Interesting perspective!
> We are looking at Backroads Iceland trip for Spring Break 2019. To fly internationally and not have kids miss any school, the 5 to 6 days are perfect. We’re just not sure if we are athletic enough to do a back roads itinerary....


I took a Backroads trip to Nova Scotia, and I survived it!    Although it was a Walking/Hiking trip and did not involve bicycling.  But I was never that athletic!

Sayhello


----------



## TeeKo

sayhello said:


> I took a Backroads trip to Nova Scotia, and I survived it!    Although it was a Walking/Hiking trip and did not involve bicycling.  But I was never that athletic!
> 
> Sayhello



Did you enjoy your Backroads trip? 

This itinerary is hours and hours of snowshoeing in 30 degree weather. We haven’t quite decided yet on a trip but limited options during Spring Break and Iceland is on the bucket list


----------



## SirDuff

TeeKo said:


> Interesting perspective!
> We are looking at Backroads Iceland trip for Spring Break 2019. To fly internationally and not have kids miss any school, the 5 to 6 days are perfect. We’re just not sure if we are athletic enough to do a back roads itinerary....



I've not done that trip, but I've done two Backroads bike trips (Northern Thailand and Argentina).  Wide range of abilities on the tours and everyone was catered to (they were both adult only tours).  Many options each day - different lengths, routes that skipped hills/challenging sections, sometimes people skipped rides altogether and hung out by the pool, and one of fellow guests was super keen and would sometimes leave early to bike extra where the normal plan was to shuttle in the van).


----------



## sayhello

TeeKo said:


> Did you enjoy your Backroads trip?
> 
> This itinerary is hours and hours of snowshoeing in 30 degree weather. We haven’t quite decided yet on a trip but limited options during Spring Break and Iceland is on the bucket list


I loved it.  But it was several years ago.  We camped in tents for all but one night, and did a lot of hiking.  But we had 3 amazing guides, saw a bunch of wonderful places, ate some great food.  There was one really long hike, and it was raining.  I and another 2 women (a woman with MS and her friend) opted out of the hike and ended up going with one of the Guides to check out the town of Wolfville, and eventually met back up with the group when they were done.  They took really good care of us!

But I haven't felt motivated to travel with them since, because of the short trip length.  If they had longer itineraries, I would definitely consider them as an ABD alternative.

Sayhello


----------



## quinnc19

I am planning Yellowstone/Grand Teton with Backroads next year and am adding on Glacier National Park on my own to lengthen the trip.


----------



## aggiedog

Calfan, that Iceland trip looks amazing.  The price is eye popping though.  I may have to dream a little longer.


----------



## Calfan

aggiedog said:


> Calfan, that Iceland trip looks amazing.  The price is eye popping though.  I may have to dream a little longer.



Totally agree on the eye popping price!  I’m really curious to find out on our Botswana trip whether I can justify Nat Hab’s prices for any future trips (and then figure out how to budget for them, if I even can, lol).


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Calfan said:


> Totally agree on the eye popping price!  I’m really curious to find out on our Botswana trip whether I can justify Nat Hab’s prices for any future trips (and then figure out how to budget for them, if I even can, lol).



While I can't comment on the price of the Nat. Hab trips in general, I can tell you that Botswana is known for "high value, low volume" safaris.  The Botswana government does a very good job of keeping the parks and private reserves pristine by ensuring that the number of visitors is controlled, and we, the tourists, pay the price.  Well worth it IMHO.  

I think next year may be our last with ABD.  I find that I really enjoy traveling privately.  We meet a lot of people in the lodges at meals but get to set our own itinerary and don't have to deal with a group of 39 people being shepherded to and fro.  Of course I may change my mind if the Japan trip blows me away!


----------



## AquamarineSteph

Just returned from the G Adventures/National Geographic tour of Ecuador.  It's a definite A+ tour for them, and I'd highly recommend it.


----------



## Aelin1977

Calfan said:


> Y
> 
> We will be visiting Victoria Falls (which I realize is in Zambia/Zimbabwe), the Linyanti Private Reserve in Chobe National Park, the Santawani Private Concession in the Okavango Delta (Gomoti Tented Camp), Pelo Camp also in the Okavango Delta and the Moremi Game Reserve.  I am beyond excited.  I've been dying to go back to Africa since 2001!  Thanks for the heads up on the motion issues on the internal flights.  I did not have any issues on our internal flights on our previous trip to Africa, but I have found that motion is affecting me more as I get older, so we will make sure to have medication with us.  Thanks also for the reminder on the luggage.  Natural Habitat has provided very specific guidelines for baggage, which we plan to follow.



Calfan, depending on the time of year you go, Victoria Falls may or may not have water running over it. This will also depend on which side of the falls you visit. The falls tend to dry up during the dry season so later in the year there will be less water flowing over them and it will be almost completely dried up on the Zambian side. The Zimbabwe side has more cateracts on it and doesn't tend to dry up as much as the Zambian side. If you go in spring, you will see the falls in all their glory.


----------



## Calfan

Aelin1977 said:


> Calfan, depending on the time of year you go, Victoria Falls may or may not have water running over it. This will also depend on which side of the falls you visit. The falls tend to dry up during the dry season so later in the year there will be less water flowing over them and it will be almost completely dried up on the Zambian side. The Zimbabwe side has more cateracts on it and doesn't tend to dry up as much as the Zambian side. If you go in spring, you will see the falls in all their glory.



We will be there in late June.  This is the same time of year we visited Victoria Falls in 2001, and there was *plenty* of water.  The Falls were spectacular.


----------



## RSM

We recently returned from our trip with Thomson Family Adventures.  The Thomson portion of the trip was 9 days, and we added on 3 days up front and 3 days at the back end.  Our itinerary was as follows:

·        Tokyo (Day 1)-on own-arrived in evening
·        Lake Kawaguchiko/Mt Fuji area (Day 2, 3)-on own
·        Tokyo (Day 4, 5)- Thomson
·        Osaka (Day 6, 7)-Thomson
·        Kii Peninusula/Mountain Area (Day 8, 9)-Thomson
·        Kyoto (Day 10, 11)-Thomson
·        Tokyo (Day 12, 13, 14, 15)- On own-Day 12 was departure day of Thomson trip (Kyoto to Tokyo)

On the Thomson portion of the trip the days were pretty full and there was very little down time or OYO time.

I’ll break down our thoughts into the following subjects:  Working with Thomson (pre-trip stuff); The Thomson Adventure (the itinerary and how the trip went); Our Thoughts on Japan (in general and any tips we can provide); and what we did on our own time in Tokyo (given that the ABD in Japan looks to have a fair amount of OYO time in Tokyo).


*Working with Thomson Pre-Trip:*

From a pre-trip perspective, we really liked the Thomson model.  There was a single point of contact who you could call anytime and they were very knowledgeable of the area and had in-depth knowledge of the itinerary.

Our rep proactively asked if we were coming in early or staying extra days.  She got to know our non-Thomson itinerary and made suggestion around things to do and recommended restaurants.  She knew at the end of the trip we were going from Kyoto to Tokyo, and offered to get the Shinkansen tickets.  Obviously, we paid for the tickets as this was outside of the included end of trip transportation.  They did charge a small service charge (~$10/ticket), but it was well worth the convenience.

About a week before the trip, our Thomson rep reached out and set up a call to answer any last minute questions we had.  Our only recommendation was that Thomson get some talking points around Japan’s restrictions on bringing medications into the country. We had some specific questions that they were not able to answer (in fairness, the Japanese consulate couldn’t answer them either).

About 3 weeks before the trip, we received a hard copy of the itinerary, 3 Thomson baseball caps, luggage tags, and a go-pro.  So, a pretty nice swag bag.

Within a week of returning home, we got a call from our Thomson rep following up on our experience and soliciting feedback on the trip.  They said they try to reach out to all families and talk directly to them, along with the written survey.

One difference between Thomson and ABD is airport transfers.  Thomson provided the airport transfers only for the designated arrival/departure days.  If you came in before or stayed later, you were responsible for the cost of airport transfers.  They would help to arrange, but you had to pay.  We arranged both airport transfers on our own.  We used a shared van (~$50/pp) arriving and took an airport bus on departure (~$30/pp).

All in all, we found working with Thomson to be a very positive experience.  They were knowledgeable, helpful and professional.  They really seemed to know the experience they were selling, and we found the information they provided pre-trip to be very accurate.


*The Thomson Japan Adventure*

*The Group*:  Our group had 12 people comprised of 4 children (ages 12 to 15) and 8 adults from 4 families.  We had 2 guides for the 12 people.  We really liked the flexibility that the small group afforded.  Everything seemed faster and more expeditious.  There were times when we were running ahead of schedule and our guides were able to insert an additional activity or go to an additional site.

*Guides:*  Both guides were top notch.  Very knowledgeable, but even more important you could sense the pride they took in their country and their willingness to share their passion.  Like the ABD guides they consistently went above and beyond to try and accommodate.  To give an example, 3 of the 4 families were headed back to Tokyo after the trip (we were staying and the other 2 families were going to the airport).  Our guides walked us to the train station and made sure we got on the right line, and pointed out the right platform.  Just a small touch of extra service that they didn’t have to do, but adds to the customer experience.

*Itinerary*:  What attracted us to this itinerary was the mix of city touring (Tokyo, Osaka, and Kyoto)-about 6 or 7 days- and being in the country/mountains (3 days).  We wanted a mix of the cosmopolitan as well as the opportunity to hike the Komano Kodo trail or bike in a country side village.  One of our favorite things was the cultural experience at a school.  Prior to the trip the children had the opportunity to be pen pals with a 7th, 8th, or 9th grader at a school in the mountain town of Tanabe.  We then spent half a day with the kids at the school.  There were 10 or so kids that put together a packet (in English) introducing themselves, they gave us a calligraphy lesson, and taught us origami.  Our children introduced themselves and their families to the group in Japanese (after much practice on the bus).  All the kids and some adults then played soccer, ping pong, and basketball.  All in all, a great and authentic experience.

*Lodging*:  In terms of lodging, I suspect that the hotels and accommodations on the ABD are higher end.  In Tokyo, we stayed at the Shiba Park hotel (near the Tokyo Tower).  It is a nice, clean boutique hotel with everything that is needed but wouldn’t compare to the Peninsula.  In Osaka and Kyoto we stayed at the Granvia hotel.  Both are close to the train stations.  The hotel in Kyoto is really nice, but the one in Osaka felt a bit dated.  One of the lodgings we really enjoyed was staying at the Fujiya Inn.  This is an authentic Japanese ryokan (ok, it had a bathroom and wi-fi, but other than that it was authentic J).  The rooms had tatami mats and at night a mattress was laid down to sleep on.  We thought this was a pretty cool experience.

*Baggage handling* was the same as a typical ABD.  On some occasions bags were forwarded to the hotel and were in our rooms when we checked-in.  When bags were in the bus, porter service had been arranged.  Of course, we had the opportunity to save a few minutes and take our bags to our rooms ourselves.

*Meals/Food*: Breakfast, lunch and dinner were included each day (except the first and last days).  We found the food to be excellent.  With the exception of the breakfasts, which were really good buffets, It was primarily a variety of Japanese cuisine (tempura, barbecue, sashimi, bento boxes,ramen, etc.).  However, some in the group were disappointed that there wasn’t a specific sushi meal, so they skipped the tour arranged dinner and went for sushi.  We had a big sushi meal on our own, so it wasn’t a big issue for us.  But if you take this tour, be aware that there is not a meal dedicated to sushi (unless they change it based on feedback).  The guides provided snack bags and water (although a bit more water could have been distributed)

*Timing*:  Overall, we thought this was a great itinerary that fit most of what we wanted to do.  We would have loved to have done Hiroshima, but there was only so much time and so many things to do.  Some of the feedback we gave to Thomson is that we would have liked more time at the Fushimi Inari shrine.  We had about 45 minutes, but would have liked about another 30 to go through all the tori gates.  There were a couple of other things we would have liked more time at.  In each case, our thought was if they arranged dinner an hour later we could have had more time (note; dinners were typically around 6:30).  The other feedback was that for several dinners there was little to no time to go back to the hotel and clean up.  The temperature ran between 85 and 95 degrees, with about 90% humidity.  So, some time to shower and change would have been beneficial.

We thought the itinerary was great, but there were a couple of women on the tour who would have liked more time to shop, and one person on the tour thought the afternoon at the middle school was a waste of time and would have rather been doing something else.  Because of the diversity of things to do, I tend to think that anyone can pick out activities that don’t appeal to them and find something else they would rather be doing.

*Transportation*:  In terms of transportation, we took the Shinkansen from Tokyo to Osaka (~2.5 hours); a bus from Osaka to Kii (~2.5 hours); a bus from Kii to Kyoto (~5 hours—the longest bus day); and the Shinkansen from Kyoto back to Tokyo (~2 hours).  For our day tour in Tokyo we took the metro around the city.  This really worked out well.  Tokyo is a big city that can take over an hour to get from one place to another on the roads.  The small group size afforded us the opportunity to travel by subway and save time.

*Onsens:*  Finally, a note about the onsen experience on the tour.  Ours was at the ryokan.  They had 2 indoors as part of the ryokan.  These were authentic onsens meaning no clothes, separate male and female baths, and no tattoos.  They did have a public onsen which was basically a large hole dug onto the edge of the river across the street with a rock wall.  This was open to families, you wore swimsuits, and as best I could tell tattoos were OK.  As a note; most in our group found the authentic onsens to be too hot and couldn’t really stay in that long.


*Thoughts on Japan*

We absolutely loved Japan.  The people were incredibly friendly, polite and courteous.  Whenever we needed directions people were happy to help.

Everywhere we went was incredibly clean.  We were hard pressed to find trash and bathrooms were spotless.  Most places had western toilets, but there were some that were Asian variety.

Japan still seems to be very much a cash based society.  Many places in the mountain areas were cash only, but many restaurants and souvenier stands in the cities were also cash only.  We had about a 2-3 day period where access to ATMs was limited, and one family ran out of cash.  Our lead guide loaned cash to them until they could get to an ATM in Kyoto.

In Tokyo, the metro system is very easy to use.  Every station has attendants that will help (even if they don’t speak English).  We each got a Pasmo card and loaded about $15 on it which covered our OYO time in Tokyo.  You can also get a Suica card.  They are 2 different companies but the use of the cards are interchangeable.

From early/mid June to early/mid July is the rainy season in Japan.  Overall, we lucked out with weather.  We probably got 3 periods of sustained rain (3-5 hours of steady rain).  Luckily, we were doing indoor activities during 2 of those periods.  Our walking tour of the Gion district in Kyoto was the only activity affected.  The group pretty much unanimously voted to cut it short and go back to the hotel (it was torrential rains).  The guides arranged for the same activity the next night for those interested.

As mentioned earlier, it is HOT and HUMID in Japan during the summer.  Temperatures ranged from 85-95 degrees, but the humidity was about 90%.  So, those active days will take it out of you especially during some of the more active excursions.

The Shinkansen (bullet train) is great for long route travel.  Just be aware that there is minimal storage space for large suitcases.  The space is basically behind the seats of the last row on each train car.  There is ample overhead space for rollerboards and smaller bags, but the issue is with larger suitcases.  Again, our guides went above and beyond for us.  When we were returning to Tokyo, they helped us to get our 3 larger suitcases shipped from the hotel in Kyoto to our hotel in Tokyo.  The cost was about $20/suitcase, but well worth it as hauling our baggage through the Tokyo train stations would have been near impossible given the number of people on the metro.

It’s tough to do on a group tour, but if you can get to some of the more touristy spots early, you will avoid the crowds which can be overwhelming.


*Potential OYO Time Activities in Tokyo*

The Thomson itinerary had one day of touring in Tokyo where we went to Asakusa (old city), Harajuku (retail district), the Meiji shrine, the Senso-ji temple, and the government offices.  There were other things we wanted to do which is why we spent extra days pre- and post-trip.  I know the ABD is heavy with OYO time in Tokyo, and honestly, there is so much to do and see.  The following is a list of the experiences we booked and things we elected to do:

*Tsukiji Fish Market Tour and Sushi Making Class*:  Booked through Viator.  Fantastic tour.  Got a great overview of the outer and inner markets including behind the scenes in a couple of spots.  Sushi making was a lot of fun and was all you could make/eat.

*Sengakuji Temple*:  Went on our own.  This is a small museum and the gravesites of the 47 Ronan (there is a movie of the same title that tells the story of the 47 Ronan).

*Evening Tour of Shibuya, Roppongi, and Shinjuku with Backstreet Guides*.  We did this as a private tour, but it could be done as a group tour also (actually ended up being less expensive as a 5 hour private tour).  Awesome tour guide.  Learned a lot about the culture of Japan and she picked up that Jenn was really into photography, so the guide began to take us to great photo op spots.  Great tour to get a sense of Tokyo at night.

*Sumo Demonstration and lunch with 2 Retired Sumo Wrestlers:*  About a 45 minute demo and explanation of sumo by the wrestlers (they had a ton of personality and were really funny guys).  Then everyone got to do a mock match with them, followed by photos and lunch.  A fun couple of hours.  Booked through Viator.

*Robot Restaurant*:  Lasts about 90 minutes (broken into 3 scenes) and is loud, laser show telling a story of good vs. evil.  It was fun, but probably wouldn’t do it again.  Through the Voyagin website, we booked front row VIP seats (~$15 extra), but we really didn’t have to.  The stands are 3 rows that have a steep pitch, so there is no problem seeing over the person in front of you.

*Godzilla*:  For those old enough to remember all the Godzilla movies, the Gracery Hotel in Shinjuku (very close to the Robot Restaurant), has a giant Godzilla head outside the hotel.  If you go to the 8th floor and grab something in the Godzilla Café, you can go out to the patio and come face to face with the giant Godzilla.  Every hour it rumbles, blows smoke and screeches that Godzilla sound.  We actually really liked this.

*Akihabara*:  On our final full day, we spent the day in Akihabara (Electric City).  This is where they have the massive stores (Yodabishi) for all the electronics you could imagine, 7 story arcades for game play, tons of Anime and Manga shops (note; for those with younger children some of the Anime/Manga can be pretty suggestive), the maid cafes (we thought these were pretty weird, bordering on creepy).  This area was a teenage gamers dream.

Apologies for the length of this, but I wanted to try and get as much detail as possible.  If there are any questions feel free to ask and I’ll answer as best I can.  I can't emphasize enough how awesome Japan is.  We are definitely going back within the next few years.


----------



## kaseyC

laceltris3 said:


> It was truly amazing and the family sports day followed by the Ballymaloe cooking school was amazing.



That was one of our favorite days of of our TB Ireland trip in 2015.  All of the kids loved the hurling.  The cooking school was fantastic.  Their gardens were amazing.


----------



## RSM

A couple of more thoughts...one of our activities was box karaoke.  About half the group skipped it, but it turned out to be alot of fun.  I see it is on the ABD itinerary, even if you can't sing give it a shot, it is alot of fun especially if you are with a good group of people.  Finally, in Kyoto it appears that the ABD goes to the Arashiyama Park (the bamboo grove).  That same park also has an area of wild monkeys (that are used to being around people) that you can see--not in cages.  It is about a 20 minute uphill hike to the area, but well worth it.


----------



## aggiedog

Thanks so much.  My kids desperately want to go to Japan.  It's good to hear reviews of our options.

I lived in Japan for 2 years.  It is an amazing country and people.  I'm glad you liked it.


----------



## sayhello

Thanks RSM!!  Lots of great information here. 

Sayhello


----------



## Calfan

We have booked this trip with Thomson for 2020, so I really appreciate your report and feedback.  We also plan to add on some extra days before and after to get to Mt. Fuji and Tokyo DL, etc., so it's great to have the list of what you did on your own in Tokyo.  It's interesting that Thomson did not cover your airport transfers with your pre- and post-days.  We came in a day early to Beijing on our 2016 China trip with Thomson, and our assistant guide picked us up at the Beijing airport.  Likewise, we added two extra days in Shanghai to visit Shanghai DL, and our transfer to the Shanghai airport was covered by Thomson.  In each case, we added days at the same hotels we stayed at with Thomson so I wonder if this was the difference or whether there has been a policy change?  We experienced a similar extra guide touch in China when our main guide went out of his way to get us directions to the Shanghai subway from our hotel for our trip to SH DL.  He also called Shanghai DL for us to confirm whether we would need to present our passports for entry for our VIP tour.


----------



## RSM

Calfan said:


> We have booked this trip with Thomson for 2020, so I really appreciate your report and feedback.  We also plan to add on some extra days before and after to get to Mt. Fuji and Tokyo DL, etc., so it's great to have the list of what you did on your own in Tokyo.  It's interesting that Thomson did not cover your airport transfers with your pre- and post-days.  We came in a day early to Beijing on our 2016 China trip with Thomson, and our assistant guide picked us up at the Beijing airport.  Likewise, we added two extra days in Shanghai to visit Shanghai DL, and our transfer to the Shanghai airport was covered by Thomson.  In each case, we added days at the same hotels we stayed at with Thomson so I wonder if this was the difference or whether there has been a policy change?  We experienced a similar extra guide touch in China when our main guide went out of his way to get us directions to the Shanghai subway from our hotel for our trip to SH DL.  He also called Shanghai DL for us to confirm whether we would need to present our passports for entry for our VIP tour.



Hope it helps in your planning.  A couple of details around Mt. Fuji.  We were told in June/July there is about a 20% chance of seeing the mountain on any given day, so we set our expectations pretty low and stayed 2 days to double the chance.  The first day we got there we started a private tour at 9:00 am and got about a 10 minute glimpse of the top half of the mountain around 1 pm.  We checked into our hotel around 5 pm, walked out onto the balcony and the clouds had fully cleared.  The next day, we got up around 4:30 and got the sunrise over the mountain, but by 9 am or so it was clouded in again.  We headed back to Tokyo around 5 pm that second day and the clouds started clearing again.  So, I guess the message is if you can stay in the area overnight, you significantly increase your chances of seeing the mountain.

Not sure why transfers weren't included.  It could have been that we came in on a Weds, and the tour started on a Saturday.  The tour ended on a Sunday, and we stayed till Weds.  It could have been the time lag.  The other thing to consider is the cost of transport.  Narita is ~1.5-2 hours from center Tokyo.  A private pick-up is around $250, hence the shared van and bus we elected to take.  If they arranged private transportation for all it could get expensive.


----------



## carpenta

Twelve people........wow........now that’s getting your money’s worth.


----------



## BluesTraveler

Thanks so much for this detailed write up.  Japan is our plan for 2020 and all options are still on the table for us.


----------



## acndis

Austin Adventures Western Belize Summary

I am finally back and organized enough to write my summary of the Austin Adventures Western Belize Family Trip.  This was a custom trip so it was just our party of 5 (my dad, his friend (both in their 70s), me, my husband, and my son (10).  This was truly one of the best vacations we have ever had and we thoroughly enjoyed it.

The trip started in the Jungle with 3 nights at the Mystic River Resort.  Mystic River is an Eco Resort and is one of my favorite places we have ever stayed.  It is rustic (there is no air conditioning) but that is really part of the experience.  Our room was HUGE.  We had a two bedroom villa with a balcony that was the size of most European Hotel rooms for the three of us. My dad had a one bedroom.   We had two bathrooms and the furnishings were modern and lovely.  While in the jungle, we did a 2.5 hour unguided canoe trip into town (we rocked it and so did my dad!).  It was so much fun and then toured the Mayan Ruins with an excellent local guide.

On the second day, we toured the ATM cave, which was a once in a lifetime, amazing experience.  It was very physically challenging (my dad and his friend really struggled) but it was truly amazing.  We loved it!

On our last day at Mystic River, we traveled to Jaguar's Paw to do cave tubing (totally laid back) and Ziplining.  We loved both the activities and had a blast.

As you can tell, this was a very intense few days with almost no down time.  This was fine because the final two days (after snorkeling) were completely activity-free at Chabil Mar Villas which sat right on the beach near Placencia, Belize.

Our days at Chabil Mar were fabulous.  On our first day we went snorkeling at the Belize Reef.  It was beautiful.  We saw rays, huge sea turtles, tons of fish and a few too many nurse sharks for my comfort.  There were only a few groups there.  We enjoyed it more than Australia (and we enjoyed that a lot).

For our resort days, we did have bad weather (it was the rainy season in Belize) but it did not stop us from getting a terrific swim in every day and we headed into town one day and bought a beautiful wood carving and walked back to Chabil Mar via the beach.

We also had a two bedroom villa for the three of us here but this one also had a loft that my son insisted on sleeping in.  The villa was huge (slept 6) and had a full kitchen and two bathrooms.  We also enjoyed our time here by watching movies in the evening and hanging out at the outside bar (great cocktails and mocktails).

All meals were included on this trip.  You ate all your meals at each respective resort.  The food at both was fantastic and they had great choices each day.  All was freshly prepared and we never got sick of it.  At Chabil Mar, it was lobster season so we all ordered some preparation of lobster each night (that is not a joke).  It was amazing.

At Austin Adventures, tips are not included and being a custom trip, the situation is unique because you have different guides each day.  We were advised by AA how much to tip.  We brought American dollars and tipped each day.  This worked fine and was actually quite convenient.  There was also a 10% service charge on food.  This was EXTREMELY reasonable based on the food/service we were getting.  All said and done, we spent about $300 total at both resorts (that included service charges and incidentals we racked up) and only bought the wood carving in addition.  We felt like we spent really nothing above the original tour price on the trip.  I really felt like it was a great value for what we got.

My apprehension going in was that the trip would be too short.  Because of the way the itinerary was set up, I felt like we had more than enough time and did not desire for the trip to be longer.  They really load up the activities (ABDs are more spread out) so you are getting as much done in a shorter amount of time.  That may not be everyone's preference but we loved it.

I was also worried about not being with a group but I will echo what lots of folks have said on this board.  You save a great deal of time when you are not waiting on the group (even with awesome fellow travelers like ABD attracts).  We actually liked being on our own.  Also, the activities on the Belize trip could not be done in a large group.  Both the accommodations and the activities themselves just would not have worked.  I think that's why AA only offers it as custom.

Finally, I thought I would miss not having a permanent guide around to offer help.  This was not an issue at all.  This trip was so well organized that we really just had to show up and everything was taken care of.  AA (and the local company, Darah, who arranges the trip) were very well known and everyone we encountered knew the details of our trip.  Like another poster said about AA, we missed all the crowds and were literally touring the ruins basically by ourselves.  The AA guides know exactly when to arrive.

On the country of Belize, it is beautiful with amazing history, sites, and people.  We loved every minute of it.  Our guides were absolutely first rate and were very well known for what they do.  Our guide, Ben Cruz, for the ATM cave has been giving the tour for 17 years and is the guy you want to be with on that tour.  On the downside, the roads in Belize on the Jungle portion of the tour are AWFUL so you do spend a lot of time traveling on horrible, bumpy roads but the sites made the trips worth it.  All the transfers were long but that's just the nature of the country.

So, to summarize, we had an amazing trip and we will be traveling with AA again in Summer 2020.  We have picked out the Austria Multisport Family and are trying to firm up dates to take advantage of their 10% discount for return travelers.  To compare with ABD, our AA experience was way more active/physically challenging (perfect for us, but I would not recommend for my dad and his friend again without modifications--AA offers this but my dad was stubborn about 'doing what everyone else is doing'.  I do NOT recommend that.)  I think the AA itineraries are the direction we are moving because we love the more active approach.  I think we also may be moving towards custom as it was so much more convenient and because of the busy-ness of the itinerary, my son did not really miss hanging with the other kids (because there was no time to hang with them).

Again, we loved it!  If you have other questions, let me know.


----------



## tsgirl

This is great information. Not sure if you mentioned this, but do they include tips to your guides?


----------



## Dis_Yoda

Has anyone here done Tauck for China or have other recommendations with similar service levels/hotel quality?  Planning 2020 now!


----------



## RSM

No.  The recommended tip for the lead guide is $5-8 per person/per day.  The secondary guide is $4-6 per person/per day.  All other tips are taken care of.  Also of note, tipping is not required in Japan.  Whenever we went to tip, it was refused.


----------



## ngl

aggiedog said:


> We recently did a Road Scholar tour and while we were much younger than the average also, I was happy that the mix was not doctors and lawyers. (Full disclosure, I AM a doctor.) It was a great mix of careers from engineers to musicians to a Red Cross volunteer coordinator. Many of the women had their own careers, though mid everyone was retired at that point. What tied them together was an active curiosity of the world. I did in fact make a good friend and she and I are traveling the Canadian Rockies this Fall.  That said, they are not luxury tours, though we did have a fabulous guide 24/7.


Would love to hear your experience with Road Scholar trips. We have done Tauck and my guess is based on the price this may be a lower "level" than Tauck offers but was curious if you have any other comments about the trip. This would be a family trip (us in our late 40s and kids 10 & 8) and were thinking of the Badlands & Mount Rushmore one. Thanks!


----------



## carpenta

Yes in Japan a tip is often considered an insult. "When in Rome......."


----------



## OhanaCuz

RSM said:


> Japan still seems to be very much a cash based society.  Many places in the mountain areas were cash only, but many restaurants and souvenier stands in the cities were also cash only.  We had about a 2-3 day period where access to ATMs was limited, and one family ran out of cash.  Our lead guide loaned cash to them until they could get to an ATM in Kyoto.



This surprises me. I bought a bunch of traveler's checks (I know) because I had heard this and I ended up not needing them because I used my credit card so much.  I only did spend a day in Kyoto though.


----------



## RSM

OhanaCuz said:


> This surprises me. I bought a bunch of traveler's checks (I know) because I had heard this and I ended up not needing them because I used my credit card so much.  I only did spend a day in Kyoto though.



Didn't mean to imply credit cards aren't widely used.  But we found it not nearly as prevalent in some of the places, even in Tokyo.  Certainly the hotels and larger sites accepted credit cards.  For example, we went to a couple of local ramen restaurants in Tokyo (mostly locals there) which were cash only.  When we got our Pasmo cards for the subway it was cash only (the machines where you load money onto the card did not take credit cards).  Each of the 3 of us had a Pasmo card with $20 initially loaded onto it, so that was $60 in cash.  Entrance fees to many of the sites were cash only, and obviously some of the shops and stores (especially smaller ones) were cash only.  Another example was one of the woman on the tour booked a massage through the ryoken we were at.  She thought she could put the cost of it on the room, but couldn't as it was a cash only payment.  So, it is things like that to be wary of.


----------



## aggiedog

From my experience of one, which was not a family trip and was a river cruise so possibly very different from the trip you're looking at, I would recommend them.  Definitely not the luxury level of ABD hotels, etc, from what I've seen, but I'm ok with that.  Our river cruise boat was small, spotless, with a delightful crew.  We were rafted next to a Viking ship and had to walk thru to the sidewalk and my initial thought was "shiny!"  Lots of marble, brass, fancy finishes on the Viking ship.  Ours was more muted, nice but not "fancy."  The hotel in Basel was in a great location, spotlessly clean, but a bit spartan. It had a hostel sort of feel, though the rooms were huge. We were responsible for our own luggage.  Our guide was excellent, and tried to think of everything anyone might need.  Truly, the best part was the people.  So interesting.  I even made a friend that I'm traveling with in September on a RS Canadian Rockies by Rail trip.




I'd love to try a RS family trip, honestly.  For us, with oldest dds being 19, they don't qualify for most trips with RS.


----------



## aggiedog

My computer/internet at work is acting up, so instead of editing, I'm just going to add more here.

Tips were included, as were all but a couple of meals on a 12 day trip.  Again, river cruise, where meals are included anyways.  The tours were definitely less active than I would have liked, but I'm assuming a family trip would be much different.

The age of the kids is what is an issue for us in finding a trip for us.  Straight family trips seem to limit ages to small ranges, and none go over 16.  The full multigenerational ones seems to cover everyone, but I haven't called to confirm that. There are fewer of those trips. 

It does seem that on a per day basis, RS is sig cheaper than many other group travel options.  I really liked the emphasis on learning.  I enjoyed the small handful of lectures we had, though they were certainly not mandatory.  Our guide was also up front in saying that our tours would NOT include programmed shopping stops, as some tours do where they bring the whole group to the diamond/silk/pearl/etc place.  We're not big shoppers so that was a bonus, and I'd rather spend my time seeing/learning than getting the hard sell on local products.

We had one RS guide with us the whole time, for 26 of us, with a new local guide in every location. Some where better than others.  One guide in Germany had such a heavy accent, and told such off color jokes that he was not one I'd prefer to repeat.  Again, not an issue with a family trip I'd assume.


----------



## OhanaCuz

RSM said:


> Didn't mean to imply credit cards aren't widely used.  But we found it not nearly as prevalent in some of the places, even in Tokyo.  Certainly the hotels and larger sites accepted credit cards.  For example, we went to a couple of local ramen restaurants in Tokyo (mostly locals there) which were cash only.  When we got our Pasmo cards for the subway it was cash only (the machines where you load money onto the card did not take credit cards).  Each of the 3 of us had a Pasmo card with $20 initially loaded onto it, so that was $60 in cash.  Entrance fees to many of the sites were cash only, and obviously some of the shops and stores (especially smaller ones) were cash only.  Another example was one of the woman on the tour booked a massage through the ryoken we were at.  She thought she could put the cost of it on the room, but couldn't as it was a cash only payment.  So, it is things like that to be wary of.



Ah, I see.  I had someone else taking care of the subway/shinkansen part so I didn't deal with that.  Definitely did hit some stores for souvenirs that were cash only.


----------



## disneyphx

Thanks for sharing - fun to read! We had been tempted by that trip, but it repeated a lot of what we did independently - even the Kyoto hotel.....
Not looking forward to the heat and humidity - last time it was over Thanksgiving - and we got a view of Mt Fuji from the DL monorail!


----------



## EllinK

ngl said:


> Would love to hear your experience with Road Scholar trips.  This would be a family trip (us in our late 40s and kids 10 & 8) and were thinking of the Badlands & Mount Rushmore one. Thanks!



Does Road Scholar do family trips? I thought they catered to seniors.


----------



## Ava

EllinK said:


> Does Road Scholar do family trips? I thought they catered to seniors.


They do offer some family trips, and also grandparent/grandchild trips. The age ranges for kids are small though for a lot of them, so if you have multiple kids and/or a large age gap, it can be tricky to find ones that everyone can do. They have some interesting options though.


----------



## Calfan

@RSM On your Thomson Japan trip, did the group visit Nara during the Kyoto portion of your trip?  I'm trying to determine if we should add an extra day in Kyoto at the end of the trip.  Thanks!  

P.S.  It took me a minute to figure out that your separate Other Options -- Japan thread had been merged into this one.  Glad all of your great info didn't disappear!


----------



## RSM

Calfan said:


> @RSM On your Thomson Japan trip, did the group visit Nara during the Kyoto portion of your trip?  I'm trying to determine if we should add an extra day in Kyoto at the end of the trip.  Thanks!
> 
> P.S.  It took me a minute to figure out that your separate Other Options -- Japan thread had been merged into this one.  Glad all of your great info didn't disappear!



No.  The Thomson tour did not visit Nara.  Stayed in Kyoto for the 2 days.  There is so much to do in Japan, but so little time.  We elected to spend what extra time we had in Tokyo and at Mt. Fuji.  The Thomson trip only has about 1.5 days in Tokyo depending on what time you get in.  Next time, we'd love to go to Nara, Hiroshima, and spend more time in Kyoto.

I think the moderator must have merged the 2 threads.

Good luck planning.


----------



## Calfan

RSM said:


> No.  The Thomson tour did not visit Nara.  Stayed in Kyoto for the 2 days.  There is so much to do in Japan, but so little time.  We elected to spend what extra time we had in Tokyo and at Mt. Fuji.  The Thomson trip only has about 1.5 days in Tokyo depending on what time you get in.  Next time, we'd love to go to Nara, Hiroshima, and spend more time in Kyoto.
> 
> I think the moderator must have merged the 2 threads.
> 
> Good luck planning.



Thanks!


----------



## tgeorge

Has anyone here ever used Audley Travel to set up a personal itinerary (or know someone who has)??  I am looking at Nat Geo to put together a custom trip for the two of us to Australia, but also ran across Audley and was curious is anyone has had any dealings with them.


----------



## RSM

Just booked the Vietnam Culinary Family Adventure with Thomson Family Adventures with an extension to Cambodia.  We really wanted to spend some time on Ha Long Bay, and this itinerary hit most of the spots we wanted to go.  Going in June 2019.


----------



## Calfan

RSM said:


> Just booked the Vietnam Culinary Family Adventure with Thomson Family Adventures with an extension to Cambodia.  We really wanted to spend some time on Ha Long Bay, and this itinerary hit most of the spots we wanted to go.  Going in June 2019.



Definitely interested in your feedback on this one.  Southeast Asia is on my list, but I'm very "meh" on the ABD itinerary and interested in other options.  Ha Long Bay is a must for me too.  Does the Cambodia extension hit the Angkor temples?


----------



## RSM

Calfan said:


> Definitely interested in your feedback on this one.  Southeast Asia is on my list, but I'm very "meh" on the ABD itinerary and interested in other options.  Ha Long Bay is a must for me too.  Does the Cambodia extension hit the Angkor temples?



It does.  When I spoke with them they said the extension was one of about 4 that they have put together for other customers as a private tour.  Basically, they said the extension is a private tour but someone else could join in.  They are really flexible on the extension and will pretty much arrange whatever you want or you can pick from one of the previous extensions they had put together.  We looked at alot of itineraries and this one seemed to resonate with the 3 of us.  The only thing that was on our list that is not on the tour is the War Remnants Museum and Cu Chi Tunnels tour.  We will go in a day early to Saigon and do those on our own.


----------



## CrazyZeus1

Calfan said:


> Definitely interested in your feedback on this one.  Southeast Asia is on my list, but I'm very "meh" on the ABD itinerary and interested in other options.  Ha Long Bay is a must for me too.  Does the Cambodia extension hit the Angkor temples?


The SE Asia ABD is an outstanding trip! I would love to have included HLB, and I think we are going to go on our own when we repeat the trip!


----------



## Calfan

CrazyZeus1 said:


> The SE Asia ABD is an outstanding trip! I would love to have included HLB, and I think we are going to go on our own when we repeat the trip!



I have definitely seen very positive feedback about the ABD SEA trip, but for some reason, every time I read the itinerary hoping to get excited about it, it just does not resonate with me the way some other itineraries I have looked at do (for example, Classic Journeys Vietnam, Laos & Cambodia Culture + Walking or Nat Geo's Vietnam, Laos & Cambodia Adventure).  I think the combo of the ABD itinerary just not grabbing me in comparison to others and the risk of having a large group with ABD puts the kibosh on it for me.


----------



## CrazyZeus1

Calfan said:


> I have definitely seen very positive feedback about the ABD SEA trip, but for some reason, every time I read the itinerary hoping to get excited about it, it just does not resonate with me the way some other itineraries I have looked at do (for example, Classic Journeys Vietnam, Laos & Cambodia Culture + Walking or Nat Geo's Vietnam, Laos & Cambodia Adventure).  I think the combo of the ABD itinerary just not grabbing me in comparison to others and the risk of having a large group with ABD puts the kibosh on it for me.


Even when we've had the max size groups on iteneraries it's never been an issue.  More new friends to love is how we see it!  In general we've found ABD to be great at navigating with any number of adventurers.


----------



## Calfan

CrazyZeus1 said:


> Even when we've had the max size groups on iteneraries it's never been an issue.  More new friends to love is how we see it!  In general we've found ABD to be great at navigating with any number of adventurers.



I just have to disagree with you on this one (in a friendly way of course).  I've been on ABDs with 34, 42 and 49, and have also done Nat Geo trips with 15, 10 and 13, Thomson with 10 and Austin Adventures with 13, and I much much prefer the smaller group size.  While I've met some great people on our ABDs (also true of our trips with other providers), I find that the larger numbers negatively impact how much the group can do and the time it takes to handle logistics, transition between activities, etc.  Totally a matter of personal preference, but the large group size with ABD is a huge negative for me.  We are doing the ABD Backstage Magic trip next month, so I'll have a chance to reevaluate ABD, but I don't expect my opinion to change.  I am super excited for that trip though.  But that's a unique itinerary that another provider just cannot replicate or provide an equivalent.


----------



## Calfan

RSM said:


> It does.  When I spoke with them they said the extension was one of about 4 that they have put together for other customers as a private tour.  Basically, they said the extension is a private tour but someone else could join in.  They are really flexible on the extension and will pretty much arrange whatever you want or you can pick from one of the previous extensions they had put together.  We looked at alot of itineraries and this one seemed to resonate with the 3 of us.  The only thing that was on our list that is not on the tour is the War Remnants Museum and Cu Chi Tunnels tour.  We will go in a day early to Saigon and do those on our own.



Sounds great.  The other family from our Thomson China trip was recently in Russia, and they said Thomson helped them put their trip together, so it sounds like Thomson is really good at customizing trips.  I hadn't focused on that aspect with them until recently.


----------



## CrazyZeus1

Calfan said:


> I just have to disagree with you on this one (in a friendly way of course).  I've been on ABDs with 34, 42 and 49, and have also done Nat Geo trips with 15, 10 and 13, Thomson with 10 and Austin Adventures with 13, and I much much prefer the smaller group size.  While I've met some great people on our ABDs (also true of our trips with other providers), I find that the larger numbers negatively impact how much the group can do and the time it takes to handle logistics, transition between activities, etc.  Totally a matter of personal preference, but the large group size with ABD is a huge negative for me.  We are doing the ABD Backstage Magic trip next month, so I'll have a chance to reevaluate ABD, but I don't expect my opinion to change.  I am super excited for that trip though.  But that's a unique itinerary that another provider just cannot replicate or provide an equivalent.


We've done ABDs with 9, 11, and 12 people and while small groups have perks, larger groups just have different perks to us !


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

I'm with @Calfan on enjoying the smaller group sizes.  Our groups on the ABD Rhine River Cruise were just so big it wasn't really enjoyable.  Some of the tours we had 45-50 people and it was seemed like organized chaos for the guides.  At the zip lining for example, there was one outhouse for the entire group to use.  Speaking of the same excursion, we were divided into 3 or 4 groups for the zip lining.  When the last group came back there were no snacks left -- and it was over a one hour bus ride back to the boat (I was famished when my group returned from the course).  Not to mention the guides seemed very scattered most of the time.  I will also mention the canoe disaster in France where they put around 30 or so canoes on the river at the same time, some with experienced paddlers and others with no experience.  Perhaps it was because we were the first cruise, but it is not an experience I care to relive -- ever.   There was also the bicycling trip through the vineyards in Germany (?) where one of the tires on Betti's bike blew, which left one ABD guide with a group of around 40 people -- some of whom just couldn't keep up.  So we spent an enormous amount of time just standing with our bikes and waiting for the those bringing up the rear to catch up, when we really just wanted to keep going (those in the rear were so winded they wanted a break and we had already been standing waiting for several minutes -- it was a bit of a disaster).  Of course this is just my opinion.  

People that hadn't done an ABD previously seemed to enjoy it.  But we met _a lot_ of people that were showing off the swag they got for "complaining" to the guides (I never asked what they complained about, nor did I complain to a guide).   

Since we have traveled with private guides and with ABD with groups that were just WAY too big, I know that my preference is definitely with private travel or much smaller groups.  However I know that both of my kids like group travel so of course I let them chose (to some extent).


----------



## WeLoveABD

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I'm with @Calfan on enjoying the smaller group sizes.  Our groups on the ABD Rhine River Cruise were just so big it wasn't really enjoyable.  Some of the tours we had 45-50 people and it was seemed like organized chaos for the guides.  At the zip lining for example, there was one outhouse for the entire group to use.  Speaking of the same excursion, we were divided into 3 or 4 groups for the zip lining.  When the last group came back there were no snacks left -- and it was over a one hour bus ride back to the boat (I was famished when my group returned from the course).  Not to mention the guides seemed very scattered most of the time.  I will also mention the canoe disaster in France where they put around 30 or so canoes on the river at the same time, some with experienced paddlers and others with no experience.  Perhaps it was because we were the first cruise, but it is not an experience I care to relive -- ever.   There was also the bicycling trip through the vineyards in Germany (?) where one of the tires on Betti's bike blew, which left one ABD guide with a group of around 40 people -- some of whom just couldn't keep up.  So we spent an enormous amount of time just standing with our bikes and waiting for the those bringing up the rear to catch up, when we really just wanted to keep going (those in the rear were so winded they wanted a break and we had already been standing waiting for several minutes -- it was a bit of a disaster).  Of course this is just my opinion.
> 
> People that hadn't done an ABD previously seemed to enjoy it.  But we met _a lot_ of people that were showing off the swag they got for "complaining" to the guides (I never asked what they complained about, nor did I complain to a guide).
> 
> Since we have traveled with private guides and with ABD with groups that were just WAY too big, I know that my preference is definitely with private travel or much smaller groups.  However I know that both of my kids like group travel so of course I let them chose (to some extent).


The main thing is that it is a personal preference. The business model isn't going to be able to sustain small groups and two guides, and I assume other perks that come with each ABD trip. I agree that larger groups move at a slower pace in some respects (although the Iceland group of 37 that just concluded moved pretty smoothly! We we're frequently split into groups of two to avoid a pile up in the more involved activities, so in that sense there is the small group experience). But in any event, Disney isn't going to be able to change to a 15 person max , so we all have a choice re travel group size-- and if the likely group size of 30 or more isn't your thing, there are plenty of other options!


----------



## Calfan

WeLoveABD said:


> The main thing is that it is a personal preference. The business model isn't going to be able to sustain small groups and two guides, and I assume other perks that come with each ABD trip. I agree that larger groups move at a slower pace in some respects (although the Iceland group of 37 that just concluded moved pretty smoothly! We we're frequently split into groups of two to avoid a pile up in the more involved activities, so in that sense there is the small group experience). But in any event, Disney isn't going to be able to change to a 15 person max , so we all have a choice re travel group size-- and if the likely group size of 30 or more isn't your thing, there are plenty of other options!



Totally agree it’s a matter of personal preference, but I don’t understand why you say the ABD business model is not able to sustain small groups and two guides.  That is exactly what Nat Geo, Thomson and Austin Adventures do.  Our AA trip had 3 guides for our small group.  My recent Nat Geo trip had 2 guides plus a logistics person for 13 people.  And my issue with ABD splitting their larger groups into two for certain activities is that that feels to me like losing the supposed ABD advantage of having 2 guides for every group.  When the groups get split, instead of having 2 ABD guides for a group of 40, it kind of becomes 1 ABD guide for a group of 20.  Well, I’ve had much much better guide to guest ratios on my trips with the other providers without sacrificing trip quality (at least in my opinion).


----------



## WeLoveABD

Calfan said:


> Totally agree it’s a matter of personal preference, but I don’t understand why you say the ABD business model is not able to sustain small groups and two guides.  That is exactly what Nat Geo, Thomson and Austin Adventures do.  Our AA trip had 3 guides for our small group.  My recent Nat Geo trip had 2 guides plus a logistics person for 13 people.  And my issue with ABD splitting their larger groups into two for certain activities is that that feels to me like losing the supposed ABD advantage of having 2 guides for every group.  When the groups get split, instead of having 2 ABD guides for a group of 40, it kind of becomes 1 ABD guide for a group of 20.  Well, I’ve had much much better guide to guest ratios on my trips with the other providers without sacrificing trip quality (at least in my opinion).


I will concede the point if the 15 or fewer guest trips with 2 or 3 guides is priced equivalently to an ABD trip with the same itinerary. Otherwise this friendly debate ends where we both agree: personal preference!


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

WeLoveABD said:


> I will concede the point if the 15 or fewer guest trips with 2 or 3 guides is priced equivalently to an ABD trip with the same itinerary. Otherwise this friendly debate ends where we both agree: personal preference!


They are definitely priced equivalently. It's hard to compare apples to oranges with the Nat Geo hiking trips since ABD doesn't have anything like them. But IMO the two NatGeo hiking trips we've done are every bit on par with the ABD experience (I've done six ABDs). For our Coast to Coast that was 12 days long we had three guides, all our meals were included except one dinner, and stayed at exceptional small hotels (the best available). We had "surprises" along the way, and an open tab at every place we stayed for non-alcoholic beverages (including fancy coffee drinks). I can't remember exact number of guests, but I think 15 for two main guides and an extra logistical person who was basically another guide. We left our luggage in our room (not in the hall) and it was waiting for us in our rooms at our next stop (so much better than Tinkerbell). The cost for the same trip this year is $6000 a person. @Calfan can speak more to specifics on the Thompson/Austin Adventures, but when I've priced them out and compared itineraries they are all very close--sometimes slightly more and sometimes slightly less. So I think the ABD model can definitely sustain a smaller group. I want to say when they first started it was 35 (or even 30?). I went the second year of ABD to Ireland, but unfortunately, I don't have my original materials. They've gradually crept up their "minimum." I remember having salt in the wound when i was on DCL with my 49 people on the Baltic Add-on and the ABD commercial playing in the room said "You will never have more than 40" or something like that. I would love to see them take the minimum back to 30-35. They run plenty of trips of that size or lower. At least half of my trips have been in that range. I suspect they have a minimum number for each trip that they want to hit for it to be profitable. My guess is 20-25 ish. Anything on top of that is probably gravy. Our China trip was supposed to be 28 but 4 people cancelled at last minute to make it 24. It was the pretty much ideal size for a family travel group. There are enough groups to mix it up for dinner and still get a chance to really get to know people.


----------



## CrazyZeus1

They definitely limit numbers, although I don't know how/what that number is determined.  We were on a waiting list twice and didn't make the trip since it was too full...so I know they are setting limits


----------



## disneyphx

Thought I would share a few thoughts on our Tauck Bridges trip this summer. We headed to Alaska - the TB and ABD itineraries are pretty similar, but we opted for TB because of less time travelling and the range of activities.
There were 41 in the group - this was our 3rd TB trip and all have had 35+ people. One family  group of 12 stuck together always.

Some observations:
- there were lots of grandparent (1 or 2)/grandchild (1 or 2) groups - all our TB trips have had this (and none of our ABDs) but this was the most. One of them pointed out they felt more comfortable with no passport needed. While it is fun to see the interactions and we have met some great people, there can also be some different dynamics than you observe with parent/child combos. All 3 of our TB trips have also had 3 generation groups 
- this was the 1st TB trip where we really felt the difference with only one guide. She was good, but always very busy 'doing things' and spent hardly any time with the anyone in the group. We shared our transfer to Anchorage with her, and she said from when she had crossed paths with ABD groups, she really envied the model! 
- like other TB trips, at a lot of dinners, we got to order from the entire menu and be in the restaurant which is great
- the TB pre-departure gift is no better than ABD this year - a too-small for us backpack, a water bottle and a pack of cards (it is really for the kid). TB is trying out reusable water bottles in Alaska - they were nice Swell bottles, but were too small and they did not make it easy to refill them
- the 'gift of time' has never been  a benefit we can use - on our Costa Rica trip they didnt offer it because it was high season, and for this trip it didnt make sense for us given flight times (and how precious my vacation days are)
- we had really hoped to see more animals in Alaska - we are considering a Nat Hab bear trip (we did the Nat Hab polar bear trip which was fabulous, and our guide does Alaska trips too, so we heard lots of wonderful tales!)

Overall, TB is not my favorite, but dates or itinerary might lead us back to them.
I think we are now looking at more in-depth trips with guides who are more expert in the area or a topic.


----------



## acndis

We have completed our booking of the Austria Multisport Family Vacation for August 2020.  We got 2018 pricing + the let's do it again 10% discount.  We were very happy with the price and loved that we could book so early.  We went with the family trip because the custom was nearly double the price .  The booking process was easy and we love working with AA.

It's a long ways away (we have ABD Backstage Magic Summer 2019) but we are excited to try their group tours (since our last was custom).  Now, we just have to decide if we want to do pre trip days in Munich or Prague and/or post days in Vienna.  Any and all input appreciated!


----------



## Calfan

acndis said:


> We have completed our booking of the Austria Multisport Family Vacation for August 2020.  We got 2018 pricing + the let's do it again 10% discount.  We were very happy with the price and loved that we could book so early.  We went with the family trip because the custom was nearly double the price .  The booking process was easy and we love working with AA.
> 
> It's a long ways away (we have ABD Backstage Magic Summer 2019) but we are excited to try their group tours (since our last was custom).  Now, we just have to decide if we want to do pre trip days in Munich or Prague and/or post days in Vienna.  Any and all input appreciated!



Prague!!!!!


----------



## WishUponAStarryNight

Calfan said:


> Prague!!!!!


Yes, Prague!!


----------



## carpenta

Another vote for Prague.....if you could spend a few days that would be even better.


----------



## calypso726

Chiming in to say Prague!


----------



## kristilew

Another vote for Prague!


----------



## acndis

I think Prague is the CLEAR winner.  Already ran it by the husband and he's in, let the super longterm planning begin!  Thanks for the input.


----------



## riot23

We’re in Prague right now and heading to Munich tomorrow for our Germany ABD. Prague is a BEAUTIFUL city that is easily walkable, has beautiful sights all around and has been very economical in our opinion. I don’t think you’ll regret visiting!


----------



## acndis

riot23 said:


> We’re in Prague right now and heading to Munich tomorrow for our Germany ABD. Prague is a BEAUTIFUL city that is easily walkable, has beautiful sights all around and has been very economical in our opinion. I don’t think you’ll regret visiting!


Are you taking the train or flying to Munich?


----------



## EllinK

riot23 said:


> We’re in Prague right now and heading to Munich tomorrow for our Germany ABD. Prague is a BEAUTIFUL city that is easily walkable, has beautiful sights all around and has been very economical in our opinion. I don’t think you’ll regret visiting!



How easy is it to do OYO?


----------



## carpenta

We flew to Prague after our Germany ABD trip for 4 days and did it OYO. Everything is so easy to book through the internet and when you are there. Great walkable city and tours are available mostly through your hotel front desk. Love, love Prague.


----------



## riot23

acndis said:


> Are you taking the train or flying to Munich?


We took an IC Bus for 38 Euros from the Prague Train station direct to the Munich ZOB right by the Hauptbahnhof. Total trip took 5 hours, we found it was the most economical and direct option.


----------



## riot23

I second @carpenta Prague is a very easy on your own city. A good map and good walking shoes are musts!


----------



## sayhello

EllinK said:


> How easy is it to do OYO?


I'd suggest setting up some walking tours.  They're readily available.  I used The Naked Tour Guide (who wasn't actually naked!  ).  There is SO much history to Prague, you really want to see everything in the context of that history!  And if you want to do the Jewish Quarter, do NOT plan to do it on a Saturday.  Everything is closed for the Sabbath.

Sayhello


----------



## Calfan

EllinK said:


> How easy is it to do OYO?





carpenta said:


> We flew to Prague after our Germany ABD trip for 4 days and did it OYO. Everything is so easy to book through the internet and when you are there. Great walkable city and tours are available mostly through your hotel front desk. Love, love Prague.





riot23 said:


> I second @carpenta Prague is a very easy on your own city. A good map and good walking shoes are musts!



Chiming in to agree that Prague is so do-able on your own.  We spent 4 nights there on our own before the start of our Central Europe ABD.  We did arrange a tour to Kutna Hora for the Sedlec Ossuary (Bone Church) which I highly recommend.  We also did Karlstejn Castle on our own via the train.  But other sites we just did on our own such as the Jewish Quarter, parts of Prague Castle, Petrin Hill, etc. mostly walking but also using the subway.


----------



## Calfan

I'm pretty sure at least one or two folks expressed interest in Morocco in the "What's Next" thread.  I haven't taken one of their trips yet, but I get catalogs from Classic Journeys.  Their latest catalog has a 9-day Morocco Family Adventure if anyone wants to check it out. You can download itineraries from their website.


----------



## Travel junkie

AquamarineSteph said:


> We did G Adventures/National Geographic in Morocco earlier this year.  (12 people + a guide)  We're taking the same company to Ecuador.  I love the very small groups which they have!


How would you compare your Nat Geo experience to your ABD trips?  We have done a few trips with ABD (Alpine  Magic, Alaska, Australia, Costa Rica and are booked for Galapagos and SE Asia). Initially we picked ABD because the kids were young, they are still only 9 and 10, but they have traveled now. We continue because it was a known commodity. We have enjoyed the trips.  The guides are engaging and meeting other kids is something our kids always look forward to, but now we want to branch out to Thailand or New Zealand or Morocco among others.  Looks like some of the other companies have those. Thanks in advance.


----------



## AquamarineSteph

Travel junkie said:


> How would you compare your Nat Geo experience to your ABD trips?  We have done a few trips with ABD (Alpine  Magic, Alaska, Australia, Costa Rica and are booked for Galapagos and SE Asia). Initially we picked ABD because the kids were young, they are still only 9 and 10, but they have traveled now. We continue because it was a known commodity. We have enjoyed the trips.  The guides are engaging and meeting other kids is something our kids always look forward to, but now we want to branch out to Thailand or New Zealand or Morocco among others.  Looks like some of the other companies have those. Thanks in advance.



I haven't done any trips with National Geographic with kids, but - important but - having said that, I have found that as far as getting value for $$$ spent, I find National Geographic/G Adventures to be equal as far as quality of - well, everything.  Our guide in Costa Rica was our second favorite guide of all time with Dusty from ABD still holding the number one position.  Our National Geographic/G Adventures guide in Ecuador is probably number three in the list of all the tours we've done.

Heads up - you sometimes have to carry your own luggage on these tours.  They tell you up front that you're responsible for carrying it, but it varies a lot, depending on which country you're visiting.  There is only one dedicated guide as opposed to two with ABD.  But in all honesty, our dedicated guides through National Geographic/G Adventures have been incredible.  They are part of your group.  The group is small which (to me) is a huge bonus.  And the emphasis is on experiencing the local culture, not out the window of your bus but as a participant in the daily life.

PM me if you have any specific questions!


----------



## Calfan

Just want to add that of my 4 Nat Geo trips (none of them G Adventures), we’ve always had two dedicated guides and have never had to carry our own luggage. And I agree that the guides have been fantastic.


----------



## AquamarineSteph

Just wanted to add that while the National Geographic/G Adventures tours are available through the National Geographic tours website, they cost less in most cases than the regular tours.  For some people that is not an issue, but if cost is a factor, then this is a wonderful way to have incredible quality for less.


----------



## Ava

AquamarineSteph said:


> Just wanted to add that while the National Geographic/G Adventures tours are available through the National Geographic tours website, they cost less in most cases than the regular tours.  For some people that is not an issue, but if cost is a factor, then this is a wonderful way to have incredible quality for less.


Have you ever done any straight G Adventures trips, or have all the ones you’ve done been Nat Geo Journeys? The Nat Geo Journeys are bookable through both the Nat Geo and G Adventures websites, but none of them are family tours as far as I can tell. I’m looking at the G Adventures family Galapagos trip and am wondering if the service level is the same/similar to Nat Geo Journeys. It says “upgraded” in comparison to the regular G Adventures trips, but I’ve never been on one so am not quite sure what that means. 

My older daughter really wants to visit the Galapagos but the tours offered by the high-end companies are just financially out of reach for us. So I’m looking for a lower cost option. G Adventures is one, and Intrepid Travel is another I’m looking at. (Her other “bucket list” trip is India. She has exotic tastes for a 9-year-old, lol.)


----------



## carpenta

Tauck tours we did not have to "slepp" our bags except in Iceland. A number of tour companies have the same service when it comes to bags.


----------



## AquamarineSteph

Ava said:


> Have you ever done any straight G Adventures trips, or have all the ones you’ve done been Nat Geo Journeys? The Nat Geo Journeys are bookable through both the Nat Geo and G Adventures websites, but none of them are family tours as far as I can tell. I’m looking at the G Adventures family Galapagos trip and am wondering if the service level is the same/similar to Nat Geo Journeys. It says “upgraded” in comparison to the regular G Adventures trips, but I’ve never been on one so am not quite sure what that means.
> 
> My older daughter really wants to visit the Galapagos but the tours offered by the high-end companies are just financially out of reach for us. So I’m looking for a lower cost option. G Adventures is one, and Intrepid Travel is another I’m looking at. (Her other “bucket list” trip is India. She has exotic tastes for a 9-year-old, lol.)



I haven't done a straight G Adventures tour yet.  I have one booked for next spring.  But based on the level of service we received so far, I'd say that they're a good company.  

Just from looking at the tour I think you're viewing on their website, the upgraded designation means that you have better accommodations than on their basic tours.  You generally have more meals included, and it also may mean that you have more activities than a basic tour.  You'd need to compare tours on their site to verify that, but the National Geographic co-branded tours always carry the 'upgraded' designation as well.


----------



## Ava

AquamarineSteph said:


> I haven't done a straight G Adventures tour yet.  I have one booked for next spring.  But based on the level of service we received so far, I'd say that they're a good company.
> 
> Just from looking at the tour I think you're viewing on their website, the upgraded designation means that you have better accommodations than on their basic tours.  You generally have more meals included, and it also may mean that you have more activities than a basic tour.  You'd need to compare tours on their site to verify that, but the National Geographic co-branded tours always carry the 'upgraded' designation as well.


Thank you for the info! I’ll be interested to hear about your experience with G Adventures next spring. I’m looking at this potentially for summer 2020 so I have time.


----------



## WanderlustNZ

Ava said:


> Have you ever done any straight G Adventures trips, or have all the ones you’ve done been Nat Geo Journeys? The Nat Geo Journeys are bookable through both the Nat Geo and G Adventures websites, but none of them are family tours as far as I can tell. I’m looking at the G Adventures family Galapagos trip and am wondering if the service level is the same/similar to Nat Geo Journeys. It says “upgraded” in comparison to the regular G Adventures trips, but I’ve never been on one so am not quite sure what that means.
> 
> My older daughter really wants to visit the Galapagos but the tours offered by the high-end companies are just financially out of reach for us. So I’m looking for a lower cost option. G Adventures is one, and Intrepid Travel is another I’m looking at. (Her other “bucket list” trip is India. She has exotic tastes for a 9-year-old, lol.)



I have no experience with this company or the Galápagos Islands, but it does seem that your daughter and I share similar bucket lists.  

I’m sure the company would be fine, but my question would be regarding the benefits of a land based Galápagos tour vs a cruise.  
The cruises are frightfully expensive, but when we do get there one day, I’m determined to have saved enough money to get on a small ship and explore some of the smaller islands.  After all my years of studying Darwinian theory, I feel like I want to see the area a bit like he did.  Or at least like Attenborough 

I am interested to do some further research though to figure out what a land/main island tour offers.  They do seem to be much cheaper.


----------



## BluesTraveler

Someone up thread mentioned they were interested in Egypt - I noticed tonight A&K has a new family trip to Egypt.  Pretty interesting.


----------



## Woodview

Here is a  Cruise  that might interest  some people

 A 12 day  Cruise on Board         The  Crown Princess       From    5th May  2019  to   16th  May 2019

              Cost         € 1740      Euros   per person          ( Flights  to Dublin   Extra )

 From  Dublin      and visiting  Belfast , Glasgow , Invergordon  &    Edinburgh    & then  Le Havre  for Normandy Beaches  & Paris,

   Then  Southampton   for London    & sail on to   Guernsey     & back to Cobh  ( my home area )  & finish back in Dublin.


     Fly from USA         to  Dublin     ( look at   Aer Lingus )      No change  of Airports


----------



## WishUponAStarryNight

FYI...Thomson is running an anniversary special this month offering 20% off several of their trips.  It's a pretty good deal.

I asked that they apply the discount to my existing reservation for next June and the response was less than stellar, though not entirely unexpected.  I'm not sure whether I'll keep the trip.  When I booked, their Smart Traveler Advantage program included cancel for any reason coverage up until 120 days prior to departure.  The updated program no longer provides this benefit, so if I want the 20% discount, I have to accept the modified program as it would be deemed a new booking.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Just got back from my REI Salktantay Trek to Machu Picchu in Peru. https://www.rei.com/adventures/trips/latin/machu-picchu-salkantay.html We had an amazing time. This was my first REI trip, and I think they compare very favorably to Nat Geo. I've done two active adventure/hiking trips with Nat Geo. The Salkantay (Inn to Inn) itineraries are virtually identical (as is the one through Backroads). REI was quite a bit cheaper--around $1000+ per person. It looks like Nat Geo stays in a nicer hotel in Cusco and there are a couple extra meals in Cusco as well, including a welcome and farewell dinner that I actually did find lacking in the REI itinerary. I'd probably put REI just a notch below Nat Geo because of this, although the price difference makes it a bit of a wash. Wouldn't hesitate to travel with them again for a trip like this. 

We traveled business on LATAM and absolutely loved the product. Also want to throw out props for the Marriott El Convento hotel that we stayed at for our two pre-nights. It's a FABULOUS hotel and a jewel in the Marriott empire. They said they were one of the top three Marriotts in the world, and I don't doubt them. Stellar service and I'd go back in an instant.


----------



## Cousin Orville

Does anyone have experience in traveling in Jordan?  I'm looking for a recommended private guide or tour provider.  My dw and I are heading there next spring and are planning on traveling to Petra and the surrounding area.


----------



## macman752

Cousin Orville said:


> Does anyone have experience in traveling in Jordan?  I'm looking for a recommended private guide or tour provider.  My dw and I are heading there next spring and are planning on traveling to Petra and the surrounding area.



Kevin, sending you a DM.

...dave


----------



## wdhinn89

We toured Italy with Tauck 4 years ago and really wanted to do their England, Ireland and Scotland Tour next year but they changed it to a 14 day tour and I can not take that much time off.  Any recommendations for another tour company? TIA


----------



## kaseyC

Any experience with Classic Journeys?  I'm considering doing their Culture+Walking Croatia itinerary next September solo.  They have a very reasonable single supplement.  

https://www.classicjourneys.com/croatia


----------



## BluesTraveler

A quick note that we received our Backroads swag for our upcoming trip.  2 great t-shirts and 2 luggage tags.  The shirts are high quality active-wear, and mine is a women's cut so it's flattering.  Have worn it already.  Also 2 really nice luggage tags.

I'm one that would be fine with zero swag, but I think if you're going to do it it's a good chance to solidify your brand.  The active-wear shirt for an active vacation is spot on.


----------



## aggiedog

kaseyC said:


> Any experience with Classic Journeys? I'm considering doing their Culture+Walking Croatia itinerary next September solo. They have a very reasonable single supplement.



No personal experience, but dh's cousin travels single with them frequently.  She highly recommends them.  I don't think she's done Croatia.


----------



## sayhello

BluesTraveler said:


> A quick note that we received our Backroads swag for our upcoming trip.  2 great t-shirts and 2 luggage tags.  The shirts are high quality active-wear, and mine is a women's cut so it's flattering.  Have worn it already.  Also 2 really nice luggage tags.
> 
> I'm one that would be fine with zero swag, but I think if you're going to do it it's a good chance to solidify your brand.  The active-wear shirt for an active vacation is spot on.


Congrats.  The T-shirts I got were very poor quality, as was the printing.  I guess I chose the wrong option.

Sayhello


----------



## BluesTraveler

sayhello said:


> Congrats.  The T-shirts I got were very poor quality, as was the printing.  I guess I chose the wrong option.
> 
> Sayhello


Recently?  Maybe they've changed them?  T-shirts in general are so much better these days than they used to be, with all the different fabrics.


----------



## sayhello

BluesTraveler said:


> Recently?  Maybe they've changed them?  T-shirts in general are so much better these days than they used to be, with all the different fabrics.


I ordered right when they announced the swag.  I'd have to check, but it was maybe 3-4 weeks ago.

Sayhello


----------



## BluesTraveler

Sayhello[/QUOTE]


sayhello said:


> I ordered right when they announced the swag.  I'd have to check, but it was maybe 3-4 weeks ago.
> 
> Sayhello


You ordered a Backroads t-shirt?  I'm referring to the gifts we got for our upcoming Backroads trip.

Edited - just occurred to me maybe you meant an ABD shirt?  I thought you were referring to the Backroads trip you did several years ago.


----------



## sayhello

BluesTraveler said:


> Sayhello
> You ordered a Backroads t-shirt?  I'm referring to the gifts we got for our upcoming Backroads trip.
> 
> Edited - just occurred to me maybe you meant an ABD shirt?  I thought you were referring to the Backroads trip you did several years ago.


I thought you meant ABD!  They recently started selling swag.  My bad!!  Well, that explains that!  

Sayhello


----------



## BluesTraveler

sayhello said:


> I thought you meant ABD!  They recently started selling swag.  Well, that explains that!
> 
> Sayhello


LOL!!!


----------



## laceltris3

OK, well I was planning on ordering family shirts for our family river cruise. Based on your review I will pass unless I quality improves before next summer.


----------



## carpenta

Better off ordering family T shirts off the internet with a personal family message for your trip. That is always fun when you see a family at WDW with matching shirts.


----------



## acndis

That's a bummer about the ABD shirts, SayHello!

Austin Adventures also provided dri fit shirts on our adventure this summer.  All 5 of us wore them at least 3x on the trip.  They were great!  I did not love mine from fashion perspective but they were good quality and perfect for our trip (rainy season, snorkeling, beach, etc.).  

Shirts have GOT to be less expensive than make up bags to produce.  I think everyone would love an ABD shirt in the box (even if it's not the greatest shirt).  I have no idea why they don't do this.


----------



## sayhello

laceltris3 said:


> OK, well I was planning on ordering family shirts for our family river cruise. Based on your review I will pass unless I quality improves before next summer.


I've heard the hoodies are really good quality.  Just not the T-shirts.

Sayhello


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

My swag from my recent REI hiking trip also included a very cute high quality hiking shirt—as well as other items.


----------



## AquamarineSteph

wdhinn89 said:


> We toured Italy with Tauck 4 years ago and really wanted to do their England, Ireland and Scotland Tour next year but they changed it to a 14 day tour and I can not take that much time off.  Any recommendations for another tour company? TIA



Are you looking for something that matches the Tauck experience as far as fine hotels and such?  Or looking for a company that can do those countries within a short amount of time?  How many days are you looking to travel?


----------



## wdhinn89

AquamarineSteph said:


> Are you looking for something that matches the Tauck experience as far as fine hotels and such?  Or looking for a company that can do those countries within a short amount of time?  How many days are you looking to travel?


I would love to have the Tauck experience in about 7-10 days.


----------



## sayhello

wdhinn89 said:


> I would love to have the Tauck experience in about 7-10 days.


I've never personally toured with CIE Tours International, but I've heard some good things about them.  This is a 9 day tour of England, Scotland & Ireland:

https://www.cietours.com/ireland-uk/tours/british-irish-delight/

They also have a couple of 11 day tours that cover this area.

https://www.cietours.com/ireland-uk/tours/irish-british-focus/

https://www.cietours.com/ireland-uk/tours/essence-of-britain-ireland/

Sayhello


----------



## wdhinn89

sayhello said:


> I've never personally toured with CIE Tours International, but I've heard some good things about them.  This is a 9 day tour of England, Scotland & Ireland:
> 
> https://www.cietours.com/ireland-uk/tours/british-irish-delight/
> 
> They also have a couple of 11 day tours that cover this area.
> 
> https://www.cietours.com/ireland-uk/tours/irish-british-focus/
> 
> https://www.cietours.com/ireland-uk/tours/essence-of-britain-ireland/
> 
> Sayhello


Thank you so much for your help!


----------



## tink1970

@wdhinn89, I've done both CIE and Tauck for Ireland and CIE is definitely more basic. I preferred our CIE guide to our Tauck guide but the lodging, meals, etc were much better with Tauck. CIE is underwritten by the Irish government (or something like that, I was a little fuzzy on the details) so when I went on an 8 day trip (with Day 8 being the airport day), our guide departed after we arrived on Day 7, citing EU labor laws(?). It was weird (to me). "Here are your hotel keys, fill out the survey, g'bye."

An example is with Dublin-with CIE we actually stayed in Dun Laoghaire at the Royal Marine Hotel and the group took a bus into Dublin (by that point I was ready for me time so I took the train in). With Tauck we stayed at the Shelbourne and Trinity College and other sites were within walking distance. We had a private viewing of EPIC the museum and a very nice dinner at a restaurant right around the corner from EPIC...things like that.

I'm not discouraging you by all means, just want to give you a head's up. If I had my choice, I'd split 2 7 day Tauck tours over a year or a couple of years, although I acknowledge flying gets tiring and expensive.


----------



## wdhinn89

tink1970 said:


> @wdhinn89, I've done both CIE and Tauck for Ireland and CIE is definitely more basic. I preferred our CIE guide to our Tauck guide but the lodging, meals, etc were much better with Tauck. CIE is underwritten by the Irish government (or something like that, I was a little fuzzy on the details) so when I went on an 8 day trip (with Day 8 being the airport day), our guide departed after we arrived on Day 7, citing EU labor laws(?). It was weird (to me). "Here are your hotel keys, fill out the survey, g'bye."
> 
> An example is with Dublin-with CIE we actually stayed in Dun Laoghaire at the Royal Marine Hotel and the group took a bus into Dublin (by that point I was ready for me time so I took the train in). With Tauck we stayed at the Shelbourne and Trinity College and other sites were within walking distance. We had a private viewing of EPIC the museum and a very nice dinner at a restaurant right around the corner from EPIC...things like that.
> 
> I'm not discouraging you by all means, just want to give you a head's up. If I had my choice, I'd split 2 7 day Tauck tours over a year or a couple of years, although I acknowledge flying gets tiring and expensive.


Thank you for the advice.  It doesn't said like we would be happy with CIE. We really enjoyed our Tauck experience and all the special touches they offered.


----------



## Ava

tink1970 said:


> @wdhinn89, I've done both CIE and Tauck for Ireland and CIE is definitely more basic. I preferred our CIE guide to our Tauck guide but the lodging, meals, etc were much better with Tauck. CIE is underwritten by the Irish government (or something like that, I was a little fuzzy on the details) so when I went on an 8 day trip (with Day 8 being the airport day), our guide departed after we arrived on Day 7, citing EU labor laws(?). It was weird (to me). "Here are your hotel keys, fill out the survey, g'bye."
> 
> An example is with Dublin-with CIE we actually stayed in Dun Laoghaire at the Royal Marine Hotel and the group took a bus into Dublin (by that point I was ready for me time so I took the train in). With Tauck we stayed at the Shelbourne and Trinity College and other sites were within walking distance. We had a private viewing of EPIC the museum and a very nice dinner at a restaurant right around the corner from EPIC...things like that.
> 
> I'm not discouraging you by all means, just want to give you a head's up. If I had my choice, I'd split 2 7 day Tauck tours over a year or a couple of years, although I acknowledge flying gets tiring and expensive.


Thank you for the review of CIE. I've looked at their family tours but their minimum age is 8 so we'd have a few years until my youngest is old enough. They only have 4 family itineraries at the moment, but they all sound fun and are very reasonably priced for a week-long tour in those countries, IMO. (The England tour even includes seeing a musical in the West End, and the Harry Potter Studio tour!)


----------



## pixiepirate

wdhinn89 said:


> I would love to have the Tauck experience in about 7-10 days.



You might also look at Insight Vacations.  I have only done one of their regular tours, but their Luxury Gold tours are supposed to be more on par with Tauck


----------



## AquamarineSteph

tink1970 said:


> @wdhinn89, I've done both CIE and Tauck for Ireland and CIE is definitely more basic. I preferred our CIE guide to our Tauck guide but the lodging, meals, etc were much better with Tauck. CIE is underwritten by the Irish government (or something like that, I was a little fuzzy on the details) so when I went on an 8 day trip (with Day 8 being the airport day), our guide departed after we arrived on Day 7, citing EU labor laws(?). It was weird (to me). "Here are your hotel keys, fill out the survey, g'bye."
> 
> An example is with Dublin-with CIE we actually stayed in Dun Laoghaire at the Royal Marine Hotel and the group took a bus into Dublin (by that point I was ready for me time so I took the train in). With Tauck we stayed at the Shelbourne and Trinity College and other sites were within walking distance. We had a private viewing of EPIC the museum and a very nice dinner at a restaurant right around the corner from EPIC...things like that.
> 
> I'm not discouraging you by all means, just want to give you a head's up. If I had my choice, I'd split 2 7 day Tauck tours over a year or a couple of years, although I acknowledge flying gets tiring and expensive.




I have also done both Tauck and CIE.  Here's my breakdown.  Both tours were equal to me as far as tour guides went.  I enjoyed my travel companions better on the CIE tour.  While the Tauck tour offered some unique things - the reason I selected that exact tour - the CIE tour was more than adequate for what I paid for it.  As far as money's worth at the end of the day?  I enjoyed both tours.  I'd do both again, BUT I did better (cost/experience) with CIE.

Feel free to PM me if you have specific questions.


----------



## Aelin1977

For anyone interested CinderellaSlipper has posted her latest trip report.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

I booked our A&K Family Antarctica cruise through a Virtuoso TA (my go-to for hotel reservations for the free daily breakfast and property credits lol). 

In return for booking with him, he is giving my dd and I this experience in Buenos Aires before our cruise (he gave us 4 options and this is the one that I chose):

_This is a completely unique dining experience which cleverly blends exquisite food and wine, local culture and social integration. Individuals, couples, families and groups from all over the world are mixed around two 14 person banquet tables, which are led and entertained by two charismatic guides, and a friendly international team. This is not a cooking class, but a fun and unique experience, where you will meet and dine with people from all over the world.


Choose from our gourmet fillings and create your own empanada learning the traditional ‘repulge’ technique. Later, use your imagination in Argentina’s first and only novelty empanada competition (with prizes for the winner!). Alongside your creations, enjoy grilled provoleta cheese with sliced chorizo sausage, and our homemade chimichurri.


Dine the very best steak in Argentina, cooked to order, Vegetarian, pescetarian and celiac options are available on request. For desert make your own alfajores, Argentina’s national sweet, where biscuits, dulce de leche, melted chocolate fondue and coconut shavings combine to delight the senses.

 Finally, get taught about the history and etiquette of mate, Argentina’s national pastime, and prepare it from scratch among yourselves.
_
I wanted to share as I know there are a few foodies here and I am very excited about this experience! 

I am also using him to book a private tour as I read on the weekend that BA has some issues with petty thefts directed towards tourists, which makes me a bit nervous about trying to navigate the city on our own (and we only have the day we arrive {at 6:45am} and an additional 1.5 days to see the city before we leave for Ushuaia, so a private guide makes sense).  I am getting very excited for this trip!

Maybe we'll even cross paths with @calypso726 in Antarctica!


----------



## Calfan

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I booked our A&K Family Antarctica cruise through a Virtuoso TA (my go-to for hotel reservations for the free daily breakfast and property credits lol).
> 
> In return for booking with him, he is giving my dd and I this experience in Buenos Aires before our cruise (he gave us 4 options and this is the one that I chose):
> 
> _This is a completely unique dining experience which cleverly blends exquisite food and wine, local culture and social integration. Individuals, couples, families and groups from all over the world are mixed around two 14 person banquet tables, which are led and entertained by two charismatic guides, and a friendly international team. This is not a cooking class, but a fun and unique experience, where you will meet and dine with people from all over the world.
> 
> 
> Choose from our gourmet fillings and create your own empanada learning the traditional ‘repulge’ technique. Later, use your imagination in Argentina’s first and only novelty empanada competition (with prizes for the winner!). Alongside your creations, enjoy grilled provoleta cheese with sliced chorizo sausage, and our homemade chimichurri.
> 
> 
> Dine the very best steak in Argentina, cooked to order, Vegetarian, pescetarian and celiac options are available on request. For desert make your own alfajores, Argentina’s national sweet, where biscuits, dulce de leche, melted chocolate fondue and coconut shavings combine to delight the senses.
> 
> Finally, get taught about the history and etiquette of mate, Argentina’s national pastime, and prepare it from scratch among yourselves.
> _
> I wanted to share as I know there are a few foodies here and I am very excited about this experience!
> 
> I am also using him to book a private tour as I read on the weekend that BA has some issues with petty thefts directed towards tourists, which makes me a bit nervous about trying to navigate the city on our own (and we only have the day we arrive {at 6:45am} and an additional 1.5 days to see the city before we leave for Ushuaia, so a private guide makes sense).  I am getting very excited for this trip!
> 
> Maybe we'll even cross paths with @calypso726 in Antarctica!



That sounds awesome!  I loved the empanadas in Argentina on our Patagonia hiking trip.  Also loved that national dessert/pasttime, lol.


----------



## calypso726

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I booked our A&K Family Antarctica cruise through a Virtuoso TA (my go-to for hotel reservations for the free daily breakfast and property credits lol).
> 
> In return for booking with him, he is giving my dd and I this experience in Buenos Aires before our cruise (he gave us 4 options and this is the one that I chose):
> 
> _This is a completely unique dining experience which cleverly blends exquisite food and wine, local culture and social integration. Individuals, couples, families and groups from all over the world are mixed around two 14 person banquet tables, which are led and entertained by two charismatic guides, and a friendly international team. This is not a cooking class, but a fun and unique experience, where you will meet and dine with people from all over the world.
> 
> 
> Choose from our gourmet fillings and create your own empanada learning the traditional ‘repulge’ technique. Later, use your imagination in Argentina’s first and only novelty empanada competition (with prizes for the winner!). Alongside your creations, enjoy grilled provoleta cheese with sliced chorizo sausage, and our homemade chimichurri.
> 
> 
> Dine the very best steak in Argentina, cooked to order, Vegetarian, pescetarian and celiac options are available on request. For desert make your own alfajores, Argentina’s national sweet, where biscuits, dulce de leche, melted chocolate fondue and coconut shavings combine to delight the senses.
> 
> Finally, get taught about the history and etiquette of mate, Argentina’s national pastime, and prepare it from scratch among yourselves.
> _
> I wanted to share as I know there are a few foodies here and I am very excited about this experience!
> 
> I am also using him to book a private tour as I read on the weekend that BA has some issues with petty thefts directed towards tourists, which makes me a bit nervous about trying to navigate the city on our own (and we only have the day we arrive {at 6:45am} and an additional 1.5 days to see the city before we leave for Ushuaia, so a private guide makes sense).  I am getting very excited for this trip!
> 
> Maybe we'll even cross paths with @calypso726 in Antarctica!



Sounds great! That would be cool if we crossed paths.


----------



## Cousin Orville

I hope to hear how your Antarctica trips go!  It's definitely on my to do list when my youngest gets a bit older.  Our main non-ABD trips we're working on is Israel & Jordan in the Spring - queue the Indiana Jones music for visiting Petra.   In the Summer we're going up to Banff - specifically Lake Louise.  After almost 50 countries, I've yet to visit Canada.  I kinda feel guilty about that.  And we've pretty much set on Morocco on a private family tour next December.  Conde Nast has a list of their recommended traveler specialists for most popular countries.  We used one of their recommendations for Portugal last year and it was a great trip with lots of little VIP experiences here and there.  After taht is probably an adults Golden Triangle trip with friends in 2020.


----------



## Rapunzellover

Cousin Orville said:


> I hope to hear how your Antarctica trips go!  It's definitely on my to do list when my youngest gets a bit older.  Our main non-ABD trips we're working on is Israel & Jordan in the Spring - queue the Indiana Jones music for visiting Petra.   In the Summer we're going up to Banff - specifically Lake Louise.  After almost 50 countries, I've yet to visit Canada.  I kinda feel guilty about that.  And we've pretty much set on Morocco on a private family tour next December.  Conde Nast has a list of their recommended traveler specialists for most popular countries.  We used one of their recommendations for Portugal last year and it was a great trip with lots of little VIP experiences here and there.  After is probably an adults Golden Triangle trip with friends.



Can you pass on the Portugal reccomendations?  My plans to go this year fell through, and I'll be going next year.


----------



## Cousin Orville

Rapunzellover said:


> Can you pass on the Portugal reccomendations?  My plans to go this year fell through, and I'll be going next year.



We used Portugal Tours for You recommended as mentioned above in Conde Nast's list of Travel Specialists.  They customized the whole trip for us.  We wanted a 2 wk trip including Lisbon and Porto that would be good for a family, but we also told them my dw and I were into food and wine.  They added a visit to Alentejo and a stay at São Lourenço do Barrocal, a winery/agriturismo.  They arranged private tours while we were in Lisbon and Porto and many cool experiences.  We did a lot of touring in and around Lisbon, but they arranged a visit to Lisbon's aquarium with the kids with a private behind the scenes tour with a marine biologist.  It was cool.  When we were in Porto, they arranged a private tour of Taylor Port Winery and a tasting.  They normally only offer group tours as far as I could tell.  We were the only private tour.  And when we had our tasting, there were lots of people doing tastings of 2 or 3 small glasses.  Ours was a private table with a crazy vertical tasting where they had multiple years - mostly very old ports.  I'm really not a big Port fan, but it was a fascinating tour and neat experience.  We skipped the hour long line to a JK Rowling hot spot in Porto.  The winery that we stayed at in Alentejo was apparently where Madonna stays yearly to ride horses - we just missed her.  And all of it was very affordable.  It's tempting to go back, especially to Alentejo.  I just loved it.


----------



## wdhinn89

AquamarineSteph said:


> I have also done both Tauck and CIE.  Here's my breakdown.  Both tours were equal to me as far as tour guides went.  I enjoyed my travel companions better on the CIE tour.  While the Tauck tour offered some unique things - the reason I selected that exact tour - the CIE tour was more than adequate for what I paid for it.  As far as money's worth at the end of the day?  I enjoyed both tours.  I'd do both again, BUT I did better (cost/experience) with CIE.
> 
> Feel free to PM me if you have specific questions.


Thank you for your experience info!


----------



## wdhinn89

pixiepirate said:


> You might also look at Insight Vacations.  I have only done one of their regular tours, but their Luxury Gold tours are supposed to be more on par with Tauck


Thank you!


----------



## CaptainCook

Aelin1977 said:


> For anyone interested CinderellaSlipper has posted her latest trip report.


Can you PM me her link again? I can’t seem to find it but have enjoyed reading her site in the past. I can’t find her Facebook page any longer, either.


----------



## calypso726

Cousin Orville said:


> I hope to hear how your Antarctica trips go!  It's definitely on my to do list when my youngest gets a bit older.  Our main non-ABD trips we're working on is Israel & Jordan in the Spring - queue the Indiana Jones music for visiting Petra.   In the Summer we're going up to Banff - specifically Lake Louise.  After almost 50 countries, I've yet to visit Canada.  I kinda feel guilty about that.  And we've pretty much set on Morocco on a private family tour next December.  Conde Nast has a list of their recommended traveler specialists for most popular countries.  We used one of their recommendations for Portugal last year and it was a great trip with lots of little VIP experiences here and there.  After taht is probably an adults Golden Triangle trip with friends in 2020.



I'll post about mine here and on other social media. Love Indiana Jones! LOL Banff is on our list for down the road too. Morocco and Golden Triangle also sound exciting! I hope you share your thoughts about your non ABD adventures here with us too.

We have two other non ABD trips for next year. A visit to Scotland again. We also just booked a trip to the Maldives with a stop over in Dubai for a few days. I'm completely psyched about it since the whole thing was booked using hotel points and airline miles. Emirates first class on the A380 which has a shower on the plane. We have a few days at the Al Maha Deset Resort and Spa in Dubai. Then, we fly to the Maldives and have a few days in over-water bungalows at the Conrad Rangali. I am so looking forward to eating at Ittha, the undersea restaurant. All the pictures I've seen look so cool. I can't wait to see it in person!


----------



## Cousin Orville

calypso726 said:


> I'll post about mine here and on other social media. Love Indiana Jones! LOL Banff is on our list for down the road too. Morocco and Golden Triangle also sound exciting! I hope you share your thoughts about your non ABD adventures here with us too.
> 
> We have two other non ABD trips for next year. A visit to Scotland again. We also just booked a trip to the Maldives with a stop over in Dubai for a few days. I'm completely psyched about it since the whole thing was booked using hotel points and airline miles. Emirates first class on the A380 which has a shower on the plane. We have a few days at the Al Maha Deset Resort and Spa in Dubai. Then, we fly to the Maldives and have a few days in over-water bungalows at the Conrad Rangali. I am so looking forward to eating at Ittha, the undersea restaurant. All the pictures I've seen look so cool. I can't wait to see it in person!




So ironic as I was looking up Maldives info last night!  I was watching one of my favorite YouTube bloggers, Kara and Nate, in the Maldives and I can't stop thinking about it.  Ok, that settles it, I have to go now 

We have a long layover in Dubai this November on the way to Cape Town.  We’re flying Emirates business.  I’m debating spending more Amex points for 1st or whether to save it for another flight.  I am tempted to go First at least the way over to Dubai be refreshed for our long layover.  We booked a private tour to take us around.  We'll have to go back for more later. I'm curious, what are your thoughts on drinking alcohol on the plane after the story of the British woman who was jailed in Dubai for having a measurable blood alcohol level from drinks on the plane?  Sounded like there was a lot more too the story.  I'm not terribly concerned and plan to drink responsibly on the plane, but was curious about your thoughts.


----------



## Aelin1977

CaptainCook said:


> Can you PM me her link again? I can’t seem to find it but have enjoyed reading her site in the past. I can’t find her Facebook page any longer, either.



Check your messages.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Cousin Orville said:


> We have a long layover in Dubai this November on the way to Cape Town.  We’re flying Emirates business.  I’m debating spending more Amex points for 1st or whether to save it for another flight.  I am tempted to go First at least the way over to Dubai be refreshed for our long layover.  We booked a private tour to take us around.  We'll have to go back for more later. I'm curious, what are your thoughts on drinking alcohol on the plane after the story of the British woman who was jailed in Dubai for having a measurable blood alcohol level from drinks on the plane?  Sounded like there was a lot more too the story.  I'm not terribly concerned and plan to drink responsibly on the plane, but was curious about your thoughts.



My dd is dying to go to the Maldives but it isn't high on my list.  I can't do beach / sun vacations (though I make an exception for Hawaii).  Though the underwater restaurant sounds intriguing!

@Cousin Orville I definitely would not drink on the plane heading to Dubai.  What happened to the British dentist is downright shocking.  I know there were issues with her Visa, but throwing her and her small child in jail?  That's crazy! I believe she's stuck in Dubai until December for her court hearing, though I haven't been following the situation very closely.  I'm not much of a drinker though and never drink while flying.


----------



## WishUponAStarryNight

I ended up canceling my Costa Rica trip with Thomson.  By virtue of their Smart Traveler Benefits program, I was able to get a 100% refund of my deposit (the program has since changed and this benefit is no longer available).  My initial interaction with Thomson was great, but once I was transferred from sales to trip management, it became less so (could simply be the person I was assigned to, but it was disappointing).  What finally did it, though, were the flight costs.  For our dates and from our airports, the flights for two of us nearly approximated the cost of the trip. I couldn't justify it.  I ended up booking again with Austin Adventures.  We'll be going to the Grand Canyon with them!  I looked at other itineraries (including ABD) and while other itineraries hit more places, Austin feels right.  I like that the trip will be more active and include less travel time than many other itineraries and I know the group won't be any larger than 18.  I worked directly with Carol Austin to book the trip and I have no complaints.  I considered the Austin Costa Rica trip since the flights were round trip and would have cost less, but the trip for 2019 has seen a significant price increase because of the addition of a couple internal flights (again, less bus), so I decided to wait on that one.  We'll be sailing to Alaska next year, so I'm saving my pennies for our excursions.  We'll do Costa Rica another time.


----------



## acndis

WishUponAStarryNight said:


> I ended up booking again with Austin Adventures.  W



We traveled with Austin Adventures to Belize this summer.  The trip was perfect!  Nothing but good things to say about them.  We will be traveling with them again Summer 2020 (I wish it were sooner!).  Please report back and let us know how it went.


----------



## WishUponAStarryNight

acndis said:


> We traveled with Austin Adventures to Belize this summer.  The trip was perfect!  Nothing but good things to say about them.  We will be traveling with them again Summer 2020 (I wish it were sooner!).  Please report back and let us know how it went.


I will, for sure.  We absolutely loved our Yellowstone trip, so I have very high expectations for the next trip.


----------



## BluesTraveler

On other options - we are working with a travel specialist for a trip to Paris.  6 people total (4 of us + my parents).  She's coming up with great ideas, but if any of you have suggestions for places or activities not to miss with 11 and 14 year old boys, would love to hear them.

This is for our spring break, we are going in March.


----------



## rlk

BluesTraveler said:


> On other options - we are working with a travel specialist for a trip to Paris.  6 people total (4 of us + my parents).  She's coming up with great ideas, but if any of you have suggestions for places or activities not to miss with 11 and 14 year old boys, would love to hear them.
> 
> This is for our spring break, we are going in March.



This thread has some suggestions:
https://www.disboards.com/threads/a...ily-to-barcelona-london-and-or-paris.3706570/

Our boys were a little older(15 & 16) than your boys when we took them to Paris.  We did a mix of private tours and exploring on our own, which is what we prefer.  Besides the obvious highlights that you go to Paris to see, one of our favorite things was our own food tour that we planned out before we arrived.  There was nothing better than to get lost in the streets of Paris trying to find our next food destination.


----------



## Calfan

BluesTraveler said:


> On other options - we are working with a travel specialist for a trip to Paris.  6 people total (4 of us + my parents).  She's coming up with great ideas, but if any of you have suggestions for places or activities not to miss with 11 and 14 year old boys, would love to hear them.
> 
> This is for our spring break, we are going in March.



We spent a few days in Paris after our Med cruise in 2011 when my kids were 6 and 8.  We all loved touring the Paris catacombs.  We bought our entry tickets from Viator and got to skip a lot of lines.


----------



## kristilew

BluesTraveler said:


> On other options - we are working with a travel specialist for a trip to Paris.  6 people total (4 of us + my parents).  She's coming up with great ideas, but if any of you have suggestions for places or activities not to miss with 11 and 14 year old boys, would love to hear them.
> 
> This is for our spring break, we are going in March.




We have booked private half day tours with Paris Muse several times over the years. 

When DD was 11 she adored the kid-centric “If Buildings Could Talk” tour. We all did. The guide walked us through the history of the city pointing out all sorts of interesting things like the builders’ initials in the original city wall, where canon balls were still embedded in homes, how to read stained glass windows like comic books, etc. 

We also like to have their guides take us through the museums, like the Orsay, so we can see, for example, the art in order of how painters influenced each other. 

Paris is so easy to do on your own, but there’s so much under the surface it’s well worth engaging a good guide for some of your time


----------



## Cousin Orville

kristilew said:


> We have booked private half day tours with Paris Muse several times



I’ll second Paris Muse.  We’ve done a couple of tours with them.


----------



## tgeorge

We worked with a phenomenal private tour guide for two of our days in Paris and another when we went to Normandy. Well worth it! So much better than being with a larger tour group.


----------



## canadakath

Third for Paris Muse.  Guides had my 7 and 9 year old boys at the time in awe through "Buildings Could Talk" and "Louvre" tours.  Phenomenal company to work with.


----------



## kaseyC

canadakath said:


> Third for Paris Muse.  Guides had my 7 and 9 year old boys at the time in awe through "Buildings Could Talk" and "Louvre" tours.  Phenomenal company to work with.



We also did those two tours with them when our girls were younger and they were exceptional.


----------



## Cousin Orville

We’ve done Notre Dame with Families which was very good.  For anyone traveling without children, we’ve used Paris Muse as well for an adults only Louvre Tour - The Da Vinci Code.  Not an overly serious tour, but it was a lot of fun.


----------



## BluesTraveler

Thanks all very much.  The travel agent we're working with is good in terms of hotel and travel arrangements, but she's not checking all the boxes re: understanding what teenagers/preteens want to do.  Paris Muse looks like it has specific tours aimed at the 12 and up age group, which is exactly what I'm looking for.  Thanks!!


----------



## tink1970

I second (or third) the thanks. Next year on the ABD I plan to skip Versailles (I can live without gilt and bicycling) and check out some Impressionists. This will be an excellent option!


----------



## calypso726

Cousin Orville said:


> So ironic as I was looking up Maldives info last night!  I was watching one of my favorite YouTube bloggers, Kara and Nate, in the Maldives and I can't stop thinking about it.  Ok, that settles it, I have to go now
> 
> We have a long layover in Dubai this November on the way to Cape Town.  We’re flying Emirates business.  I’m debating spending more Amex points for 1st or whether to save it for another flight.  I am tempted to go First at least the way over to Dubai be refreshed for our long layover.  We booked a private tour to take us around.  We'll have to go back for more later. I'm curious, what are your thoughts on drinking alcohol on the plane after the story of the British woman who was jailed in Dubai for having a measurable blood alcohol level from drinks on the plane?  Sounded like there was a lot more too the story.  I'm not terribly concerned and plan to drink responsibly on the plane, but was curious about your thoughts.



I will have to look up those bloggers. DH's dream trip is over-water bungalows so we are finally making it a reality with the Maldives trip. A few Hilton card sign up bonuses to get enough points for a few nights. Plus, specifically picking up the Hilton Aspire for the free weekend night and the $250 resort credit. DH and I each have one of those. We can use the resort credit to pay for the sea plane transfers to/from the resort. That card gives you automatic Diamond Status so we will get complimentary breakfast, complimentary afternoon tea and an extra 15 minutes added on as a bonus for any spa treatments. Plus, when you book on points you get the 5th night free.

We used Alaska miles too book our flights. Here is the way I see it. This is a 15 hour flight. I will have a glass of Krug shortly after we take off, perhaps some Port before I turn in for the night if I am feeling adventurous. This will likely be sometime within the first 3 - 4 hours of the flight.  By the time I wake up again before we land, 11 more hours will have gone by and there won't be any alcohol in my system. If asked upon landing, I will honestly be able to say that the only thing in my system is coffee.


----------



## carpenta

I would never travel to a country where  I would have to worry about my consumption of alcohol nor being tested for such. Cheers.


----------



## Cousin Orville

calypso726 said:


> I will have to look up those bloggers. DH's dream trip is over-water bungalows so we are finally making it a reality with the Maldives trip. A few Hilton card sign up bonuses to get enough points for a few nights. Plus, specifically picking up the Hilton Aspire for the free weekend night and the $250 resort credit. DH and I each have one of those. We can use the resort credit to pay for the sea plane transfers to/from the resort. That card gives you automatic Diamond Status so we will get complimentary breakfast, complimentary afternoon tea and an extra 15 minutes added on as a bonus for any spa treatments. Plus, when you book on points you get the 5th night free.
> 
> We used Alaska miles too book our flights. Here is the way I see it. This is a 15 hour flight. I will have a glass of Krug shortly after we take off, perhaps some Port before I turn in for the night if I am feeling adventurous. This will likely be sometime within the first 3 - 4 hours of the flight.  By the time I wake up again before we land, 11 more hours will have gone by and there won't be any alcohol in my system. If asked upon landing, I will honestly be able to say that the only thing in my system is coffee.



Nice travel hacking!  Reading this reminds me I need to start reading that thread in the Budget Board and up my hacking game.   Your inflight strategy seems sound.  I'm looking forward to Emirates and the A380 lounge/bar.  I wish we had a little more time in Dubai, but it will be nice to see it for a few hours.  We're taking a private tour to get us around the city quickly - we should see the Burj Khalifa, Zabeel Palace and several other brief stops around Dubai.  It's been on my bucket list to see the Burj.



carpenta said:


> I would never travel to a country where  I would have to worry about my consumption of alcohol nor being tested for such. Cheers.



I can totally understand that!  In the UAE, there are bars everywhere.  So, it's not illegal to drink, but it is illegal to show signs of drunken behavior in public.  The UAE Attorney General claimed she wasn't jailed because of alcohol - it was because she was taking pictures or filming in a secure area (like airport passport controls around the world) and arguing with the passport control agent.  Regardless, it's still alarming.  I'll enjoy my layover and continue on my way.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

https://www.travelandleisure.com/travel-tips/celebrity-travel/alex-trebek-canadian-arctic-safari

I need an intervention before I book this trip!  I have been a Jeopardy fan since university and have always wanted to see polar bears in their natural environment.  But to spend a week with Alex Trebek -- I love when they do categories when he travels -- he seems so knowledgeable.

We will be just back from Japan on June 14th so the date works.  I am being strong for now.  Only 16 spots so maybe I'll hold 2 spots and think about it


----------



## tink1970

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> https://www.travelandleisure.com/travel-tips/celebrity-travel/alex-trebek-canadian-arctic-safari
> 
> I need an intervention before I book this trip! I have been a Jeopardy fan since university and have always wanted to see polar bears in their natural environment. But to spend a week with Alex Trebek -- I love when they do categories when he travels -- he seems so knowledgeable.
> 
> We will be just back from Japan on June 14th so the date works. I am being strong for now. Only 16 spots so maybe I'll hold 2 spots and think about it



DO IT!!! If we weren't already scheduled for DD's Danube ABD that week, I would have hopped on this. I can't imagine seeing narwhals in their environment with Alex Trebeck-so cool!


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

tink1970 said:


> DO IT!!! If we weren't already scheduled for DD's Danube ABD that week, I would have hopped on this. I can't imagine seeing narwhals in their environment with Alex Trebeck-so cool!



I know!!  My travel budget does not need this in 2019.  But I REALLY want to.  I need to explore the communal washrooms things as that could be a non-starter for me (I'd need a flush toilet in our yurt!).


----------



## notaprincess

Cousin Orville said:


> I hope to hear how your Antarctica trips go!  It's definitely on my to do list when my youngest gets a bit older.  Our main non-ABD trips we're working on is Israel & Jordan in the Spring - queue the Indiana Jones music for visiting Petra.   In the Summer we're going up to Banff - specifically Lake Louise.  After almost 50 countries, I've yet to visit Canada.  I kinda feel guilty about that.  And we've pretty much set on Morocco on a private family tour next December.  Conde Nast has a list of their recommended traveler specialists for most popular countries.  We used one of their recommendations for Portugal last year and it was a great trip with lots of little VIP experiences here and there.  After taht is probably an adults Golden Triangle trip with friends in 2020.



You are going to love Jordan, I've been living here for 11 years. Locals are very welcoming, albeit not very efficient/organized.


----------



## Cousin Orville

notaprincess said:


> You are going to love Jordan, I've been living here for 11 years. Locals are very welcoming, albeit not very efficient/organized.



Thanks!  We're looking forward to it.  We're headed there next Spring and have found a good local travel specialist that's created a cool itinerary with a private guide for us.  We'll spend a full day in Amman eating dinner at Fakhr El Din which I'm excited about.  From there we'll head down to Petra.  We'll get to see Petra by night which was on my wish list.  We're heading out to Wadi Rum for a night and then up to a resort at the Dead Sea.  All together we're staying about a week in Jordan and a little over a week in Israel.  We're crossing at the King Hussein/Allenby Bridge which I've heard is a headache.  We're planning on opting for the VIP paid crossing.  If you have any tips, let me know!


----------



## sayhello

Cousin Orville said:


> Thanks!  We're looking forward to it.  We're headed there next Spring and have found a good local travel specialist that's created a cool itinerary with a private guide for us.  We'll spend a full day in Amman eating dinner at Fakhr El Din which I'm excited about.  From there we'll head down to Petra.  We'll get to see Petra by night which was on my wish list.  We're heading out to Wadi Rum for a night and then up to a resort at the Dead Sea.  All together we're staying about a week in Jordan and a little over a week in Israel.  We're crossing at the King Hussein/Allenby Bridge which I've heard is a headache.  We're planning on opting for the VIP paid crossing.  If you have any tips, let me know!


Where are you going in Israel?  

Sayhello


----------



## Cousin Orville

sayhello said:


> Where are you going in Israel?
> 
> Sayhello



We'll going to Netanya, the Sea of Galilee, and Jerusalem and visiting a ton of sites around those areas.  It's with our church.  We just added Jordan on our own as well as a winery visit in Israel on the way through the West Bank to Netanya.  We also have a long layover in Istanbul which I'm excited about.  Enough time to see Hagia Sophia.  It should be an amazing trip.


----------



## sayhello

Cousin Orville said:


> We'll going to Netanya, the Sea of Galilee, and Jerusalem and visiting a ton of sites around those areas.  It's with our church.  We just added Jordan on our own as well as a winery visit in Israel on the way through the West Bank to Netanya.  We also have a long layover in Istanbul which I'm excited about.  Enough time to see Hagia Sophia.  It should be an amazing trip.


It does sound amazing!

Sayhello


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Update: I don't think I'm going to do the Arctic Expedition.  I received some pictures of the yurt and compost toilet from Arctic Kingdom and it's just too rustic for me.  I know my comfort level and I just don't think I'd be comfortable for a week sharing a shower and sink with a group of 14 others.  Then there's the issue of the already accounted for 2019 travel budget.  I could make it work if I really wanted to, but I'm just not feeling it.


----------



## sayhello

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> Update: I don't think I'm going to do the Arctic Expedition.  I received some pictures of the yurt and compost toilet from Arctic Kingdom and it's just too rustic for me.  I know my comfort level and I just don't think I'd be comfortable for a week sharing a shower and sink with a group of 14 others.  Then there's the issue of the already accounted for 2019 travel budget.  I could make it work if I really wanted to, but I'm just not feeling it.


I totally understand.  That's outside my comfort level, too.   That's too bad!

Sayhello


----------



## tink1970

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> Update: I don't think I'm going to do the Arctic Expedition.  I received some pictures of the yurt and compost toilet from Arctic Kingdom and it's just too rustic for me.  I know my comfort level and I just don't think I'd be comfortable for a week sharing a shower and sink with a group of 14 others.  Then there's the issue of the already accounted for 2019 travel budget.  I could make it work if I really wanted to, but I'm just not feeling it.





sayhello said:


> I totally understand.  That's outside my comfort level, too.   That's too bad!
> 
> Sayhello



Mine,too!


----------



## OhanaCuz

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> Update: I don't think I'm going to do the Arctic Expedition.  I received some pictures of the yurt and compost toilet from Arctic Kingdom and it's just too rustic for me.  I know my comfort level and I just don't think I'd be comfortable for a week sharing a shower and sink with a group of 14 others.



A friend of mine went on safari in Africa with his wife this year and it was more rustic than that.  I couldn't handle that, especially knowing how much $$$$ it would be.


----------



## notaprincess

Cousin Orville said:


> Thanks!  We're looking forward to it.  We're headed there next Spring and have found a good local travel specialist that's created a cool itinerary with a private guide for us.  We'll spend a full day in Amman eating dinner at Fakhr El Din which I'm excited about.  From there we'll head down to Petra.  We'll get to see Petra by night which was on my wish list.  We're heading out to Wadi Rum for a night and then up to a resort at the Dead Sea.  All together we're staying about a week in Jordan and a little over a week in Israel.  We're crossing at the King Hussein/Allenby Bridge which I've heard is a headache.  We're planning on opting for the VIP paid crossing.  If you have any tips, let me know!



Sounds like a great plan. As I'm not a huge fan of Arabic food, I haven't been to Fakhr El Din. Besides, I get the best food at work.
If you can fit it in, the baptism site, the mosaics in Madaba as well as Mount Nebo are all worth visiting. All 3 are near the Dead Sea. The ruins of Jerash are also great, for kids the Roman army Chariot Race in the Hippodrome there is fun.
Petra is amazing of course, been 3 times.
I did the crossing at Allenby Bridge and only will say that this was an experience that I will not repeat, ever. (and I had someone assisting me from my work). I did love Jerusalem and Bethlehem though.


----------



## Cousin Orville

notaprincess said:


> Sounds like a great plan. As I'm not a huge fan of Arabic food, I haven't been to Fakhr El Din. Besides, I get the best food at work.
> If you can fit it in, the baptism site, the mosaics in Madaba as well as Mount Nebo are all worth visiting. All 3 are near the Dead Sea. The ruins of Jerash are also great, for kids the Roman army Chariot Race in the Hippodrome there is fun.
> Petra is amazing of course, been 3 times.
> I did the crossing at Allenby Bridge and only will say that this was an experience that I will not repeat, ever. (and I had someone assisting me from my work). I did love Jerusalem and Bethlehem though.



Madaba, Mount Nebo, the baptism site, and Jerash are all on our list so that's great to hear.  That is painful to hear about the Allenby Bridge crossing.  As we are finishing Jordan 30 min away at the Dead Sea and our next stop would be a winery in the West Bank, I think we have to cross there as opposed to the multi hour drive around the West Bank.  Painful either way.  I'm hoping their VIP paid service makes a difference.  It sounds like I may need that wine after we cross.


----------



## notaprincess

I also did the long layover in Istanbul once. Great to see the Blue Mosque and Topkapi, both near to the Hagia Sophia.
Did Lunch at a roof top restaurant with the most amazing view of all 3 and the Bosporus.


----------



## Cousin Orville

notaprincess said:


> I also did the long layover in Istanbul once. Great to see the Blue Mosque and Topkapi, both near to the Hagia Sophia.
> Did Lunch at a roof top restaurant with the most amazing view of all 3 and the Bosporus.



Yep, that's the plan for Istanbul - Blue Mosque, Hagia Sophia.  I'll look up Topkapi.  Did you go on your own?  If so, did you use the trains?  We get in early at 3am and depart at 2pm.  So, we hope to get breakfast and see a couple of sites before heading back to the airport.


----------



## notaprincess

Cousin Orville said:


> Yep, that's the plan for Istanbul - Blue Mosque, Hagia Sophia.  I'll look up Topkapi.  Did you go on your own?  If so, did you use the trains?  We get in early at 3am and depart at 2pm.  So, we hope to get breakfast and see a couple of sites before heading back to the airport.



Oh, that is very early.
I went alone and took the tram. Mine was I think 7am to 6pm on the way to Tokyo.
The only negative I remember is that airport security was crazy busy in the afternoon.


----------



## rlk

Cousin Orville said:


> Yep, that's the plan for Istanbul - Blue Mosque, Hagia Sophia.  I'll look up Topkapi.  Did you go on your own?  If so, did you use the trains?  We get in early at 3am and depart at 2pm.  So, we hope to get breakfast and see a couple of sites before heading back to the airport.



The Basilica Cistern is only a few minutes walk from the Blue Mosque and worth a visit.


----------



## Cousin Orville

notaprincess said:


> Oh, that is very early.
> I went alone and took the tram. Mine was I think 7am to 6pm on the way to Tokyo.
> The only negative I remember is that airport security was crazy busy in the afternoon.



Good to know.  Yes, it's early, but I was lucky to get it.  I guess it's because we're flying west.  My goal was business class on Turkish (or really any airline) on points.  Originally we were planning on Jordan after Israel, but there were no good options.  We switched the order of Jordan and Israel and this came up.  We'll grab breakfast and visit the Blue Mosque and Hagia Sophia.  And if there's time left, we'll go to one of the other options mentioned.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

I received the Classic Journeys catalogue today.  They have a nice variety of regular and family trips priced very reasonably.  Single supplement is just a few hundred dollars more than the double occupancy rate!  They could be a contender for me once dd goes to university.


----------



## Calfan

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I received the Classic Journeys catalogue today.  They have a nice variety of regular and family trips priced very reasonably.  Single supplement is just a few hundred dollars more than the double occupancy rate!  They could be a contender for me once dd goes to university.



I got that catalog too!  I’ve been eyeing a couple of their trips (SE Asia and Cornwall, plus maybe Portugal and Croatia), so if you beat me to one of them, definitely post a review


----------



## kaseyC

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I received the Classic Journeys catalogue today.  They have a nice variety of regular and family trips priced very reasonably.  Single supplement is just a few hundred dollars more than the double occupancy rate!  They could be a contender for me once dd goes to university.



I got their catalog yesterday as well.  I'm thinking about doing the Croatia trip solo next fall.  I love that the single supplement is reasonable.


----------



## YodasMom

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I received the Classic Journeys catalogue today.  They have a nice variety of regular and family trips priced very reasonably.  Single supplement is just a few hundred dollars more than the double occupancy rate!  They could be a contender for me once dd goes to university.



How did you request the catalog?  Online?  I would be interested if the single supplement is reasonable, as well.  Still looking for some reasonably priced trip options!


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

YodasMom said:


> How did you request the catalog?  Online?  I would be interested if the single supplement is reasonable, as well.  Still looking for some reasonably priced trip options!



I didn't request the catalogue -- it just showed up.  I imagine you could request one online!  The single supplements are very reasonable -- less than $1,000.00pp more for a single (I'd have to call and make sure I'd get my own room though -- I wouldn't share with a stranger).  All of the accommodations are luxury and the itineraries are great.  They also have family trips.  Just by looking at their website and catalogue I'd say they are going to give ABD some stiff competition.  I am looking for other options and would be willing to give them a try.  Also they have some itineraries ABD doesn't offer (such as Egypt and the Nile and Morocco), so I would recommend everyone have a look at what they offer!  

I still have our trip with A&K Family in December to rate.  I expect it will be excellent based on what I have read about them.


----------



## BluesTraveler

We received the same Classic Journeys catalog this week, and I just called to find out how large their group size is for family trips.  He said they max out at 18 (!!!) but there are a few trip where the max is 12 (he didn't say which ones and I didn't ask since I had a couple other questions).  The trips have 1 guide, and that guide is always a local person.  There are 'step on guides' for specific activities but your local guide stays with you the whole time.


----------



## YodasMom

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I didn't request the catalogue -- it just showed up.  I imagine you could request one online!  The single supplements are very reasonable -- less than $1,000.00pp more for a single (I'd have to call and make sure I'd get my own room though -- I wouldn't share with a stranger).  All of the accommodations are luxury and the itineraries are great.  They also have family trips.  Just by looking at their website and catalogue I'd say they are going to give ABD some stiff competition.  I am looking for other options and would be willing to give them a try.  Also they have some itineraries ABD doesn't offer (such as Egypt and the Nile and Morocco), so I would recommend everyone have a look at what they offer!



Yep, they have an option on their "contact" menu to request the catalog.  Thank you!!!


----------



## sandhya

I just did a quick comparison of Amalfi tour offered by Classic journeys( $5,099, 6days/5 nights) vs.
Disney ($5,499 8days/7nights). Disney trip is a much better value with addition of Florence to the
trip and the hotels Disney uses are fabulous. So, grass is not that green on on the other
side.


----------



## sayhello

sandhya said:


> I just did a quick comparison of Amalfi tour offered by Classic journeys( $5,099, 6days/5 nights) vs.
> Disney ($5,499 8days/7nights). Disney trip is a much better value with addition of Florence to the
> trip and the hotels Disney uses are fabulous. So, grass is not that green on on the other
> side.


At this point, I think a lot of people are attracted to Classic Journeys because of the small group size (max 18!) and not so much by it being any cheaper.  (Well, except for that amazing single supplement!)  A lot of the options being discussed here are not cheaper than ABD.

Sayhello


----------



## Calfan

sayhello said:


> At this point, I think a lot of people are attracted to Classic Journeys because of the small group size (max 18!) and not so much by it being any cheaper.  (Well, except for that amazing single supplement!)  A lot of the options being discussed here are not cheaper than ABD.
> 
> Sayhello



This, exactly.


----------



## carpenta

18 verses 42.......enough said.


----------



## kaseyC

sandhya said:


> I just did a quick comparison of Amalfi tour offered by Classic journeys( $5,099, 6days/5 nights) vs.
> Disney ($5,499 8days/7nights). Disney trip is a much better value with addition of Florence to the
> trip and the hotels Disney uses are fabulous. So, grass is not that green on on the other
> side.



Besides smaller group size (which is very important to us) with Classic Journeys, their itineraries are more regionally focused.  For example the Amalfi trip covers Amalfi and Capri and then there is a separate trip for Venice, Florence and Rome.  So Classic Journeys seems to give you more in-depth coverage of the areas you are traveling which for some travelers is more valuable than covering more ground or a few more days.  There are plenty of options for everyone, I wouldn't say one is better than the other just different.  We will all choose what is best for us based on what we value most.


----------



## sandhya

carpenta said:


> 18 verses 42.......enough said.


2 guides vs. 1 guide and more days and better hotels. I will be OK with 42 and 2 guides.


----------



## sayhello

sandhya said:


> 2 guides vs. 1 guide and more days and better hotels. I will be OK with 42 and 2 guides.


Have you traveled with 42 people and 2 guides?  I kind of felt OK with it until I did it.

Sayhello


----------



## tink1970

sayhello said:


> Have you traveled with 42 people and 2 guides? I kind of felt OK with it until I did it.



Honestly, the number of people to guide ratio isn't as important to me as number of guests to available potties. Tiny bladder here


----------



## EllinK

sayhello said:


> Have you traveled with 42 people and 2 guides? I kind of felt OK with it until I did it.



For us the issue was the quality of food. With 42 people, you are reduced to buffets. And not the fabulous buffets that you experience having brunch at Palo but lackluster buffets where the food is only warmish and then runs out 2/3 of the way through and those that didn't get food have to wait so long that everyone else is done eating.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

EllinK said:


> For us the issue was the quality of food. With 42 people, you are reduced to buffets. And not the fabulous buffets that you experience having brunch at Palo but lackluster buffets where the food is only warmish and then runs out 2/3 of the way through and those that didn't get food have to wait so long that everyone else is done eating.



I agree!  Those welcome dinners really have to go.  For the Japan ABD the welcome dinner is on the second night at a very nice restaurant, so that will be a welcome change!  But the rest of the welcome dinners I haven't really enjoyed.  I'm also not a fan of "family style meals" which the large groups seem to have quite a lot.  I think a lot of people feel that the food on ABDs is one area where there is a lot of room for improvement.  One caveat is the China ABD, where I felt the food overall was very good!


----------



## sayhello

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I agree!  Those welcome dinners really have to go.  For the Japan ABD the welcome dinner is on the second night at a very nice restaurant, so that will be a welcome change!  But the rest of the welcome dinners I haven't really enjoyed.  I'm also not a fan of "family style meals" which the large groups seem to have quite a lot.  I think a lot of people feel that the food on ABDs is one area where there is a lot of room for improvement.  One caveat is the China ABD, where I felt the food overall was very good!


I agree about China.  Even the Welcome Dinner was great.  I'd also add Greece.  The food got a little repetitious, but it was delicious!  The buffet Welcome Dinners really do need to go!

Sayhello


----------



## carpenta

I also agree about the buffets. We travel to enjoy the culture and food is a big part of our enjoyment. Travel halfway around the world and served half warm American food is disappointing. And the other vendors which we travel supply one guide who acts as a tour guide and logistics expert and at each stop they employ local experts at the places we are to tour. Never had a problem with one guide (so far)....


----------



## sandhya

sayhello said:


> Have you traveled with 42 people and 2 guides?  I kind of felt OK with it until I did it.
> 
> Sayhello


we were 38 on our Greece trip. Which was OK. But I get the point.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

I recently booked a cruise with Silverseas (the Muse) to Alaska in July with my son!  Their itinerary is very good and apparently the price includes excursions, but I may book a few on my own (getting on to a bus with 48 or so other guests and touring en masse isn't my idea of enjoyment and I don't mind paying extra to do some things on our own).  I am debating whether or not to book the Rocky Mountaineer add-on to Banff or the 4 night pre-cruise excursion to Denali.  Leaning towards Denali I think!


----------



## sayhello

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I recently booked a cruise with Silverseas (the Muse) to Alaska in July with my son!  Their itinerary is very good and apparently the price includes excursions, but I may book a few on my own (getting on to a bus with 48 or so other guests and touring en masse isn't my idea of enjoyment and I don't mind paying extra to do some things on our own).  I am debating whether or not to book the Rocky Mountaineer add-on to Banff or the 4 night pre-cruise excursion to Denali.  Leaning towards Denali I think!


That's a hard choice!  Both gorgeous, excellent options!  I think I'd lean towards Denali, also.  If you're going to Alaska, you really need to see Denali!

Sayhello


----------



## BluesTraveler

We just finished our Backroads hiking trip in Arizona. It was so different from ABD that I’m not entirely sure it’s really a competitor. In the Venn diagram of the two, the overlapping customers would be pretty small.

That said, we were completely blown out of the water. It was a perfect trip in every day. 15 guests, 3 guides, and all meals plus snacks included. Also alcohol. Emphasis was on fresh, high quality food - I’ve never eaten so well on vacation EVER.

Our guides were outstanding. Each day you had 3 hiking options, and those that stopped earlier had outings to towns/shopping/etc.  We did all the hikes possible and did approx 35 miles in 5 days. Half the group did the minimum miles and spent afternoons exploring.

For those who travel solo, there were 3 solo women in our group. We enjoyed getting to know everyone.

We are in the process of deciding which one we will do next. Can’t recommend highly enough.


----------



## Calfan

BluesTraveler said:


> We just finished our Backroads hiking trip in Arizona. It was so different from ABD that I’m not entirely sure it’s really a competitor. In the Venn diagram of the two, the overlapping customers would be pretty small.
> 
> That said, we were completely blown out of the water. It was a perfect trip in every day. 15 guests, 3 guides, and all meals plus snacks included. Also alcohol. Emphasis was on fresh, high quality good - I’ve never eaten so well on vacation EVER.
> 
> Our guides were outstanding. Each day you had 3 hiking options, and those that stopped earlier had outings to towns/shopping/etc.  We did all the hikes possible and did approx 35 miles in 5 days. Half the group did the minimum miles and spent afternoons exploring.
> 
> For those who travel solo, there were 3 solo women in our group. We enjoyed getting to know everyone.
> 
> We are in the process of deciding which one we will do next. Can’t recommend highly enough.



That sounds fantastic!  Love the comment about the quality of the food and that it was all included.  Will definitely have to give Backroads another look.  I've tended to not seriously consider them because their trips look to be shorter than our typical family vacation, but they could be a good option when I abandon my family to go hiking with CaliforniaGirl09, lol, or we could possibly put two trips together for a longer family vacay.  So glad you had such a great trip.


----------



## sayhello

BluesTraveler said:


> We just finished our Backroads hiking trip in Arizona. It was so different from ABD that I’m not entirely sure it’s really a competitor. In the Venn diagram of the two, the overlapping customers would be pretty small.
> 
> That said, we were completely blown out of the water. It was a perfect trip in every day. 15 guests, 3 guides, and all meals plus snacks included. Also alcohol. Emphasis was on fresh, high quality good - I’ve never eaten so well on vacation EVER.
> 
> Our guides were outstanding. Each day you had 3 hiking options, and those that stopped earlier had outings to towns/shopping/etc.  We did all the hikes possible and did approx 35 miles in 5 days. Half the group did the minimum miles and spent afternoons exploring.
> 
> For those who travel solo, there were 3 solo women in our group. We enjoyed getting to know everyone.
> 
> We are in the process of deciding which one we will do next. Can’t recommend highly enough.


Sounds wonderful!  So what would you say Backroads' target customer is?



Calfan said:


> That sounds fantastic!  Love the comment about the quality of the food and that it was all included.  Will definitely have to give Backroads another look.  I've tended to not seriously consider them because their trips look to be shorter than our typical family vacation, but they could be a good option when I abandon my family to go hiking with CaliforniaGirl09, lol, or we could possibly put two trips together for a longer family vacay.  So glad you had such a great trip.


I stopped looking at them for the same reason (short trips) but I may have to re-evaluate traveling with them again!

Sayhello


----------



## Ava

BluesTraveler said:


> We just finished our Backroads hiking trip in Arizona. It was so different from ABD that I’m not entirely sure it’s really a competitor. In the Venn diagram of the two, the overlapping customers would be pretty small.
> 
> That said, we were completely blown out of the water. It was a perfect trip in every day. 15 guests, 3 guides, and all meals plus snacks included. Also alcohol. Emphasis was on fresh, high quality good - I’ve never eaten so well on vacation EVER.
> 
> Our guides were outstanding. Each day you had 3 hiking options, and those that stopped earlier had outings to towns/shopping/etc.  We did all the hikes possible and did approx 35 miles in 5 days. Half the group did the minimum miles and spent afternoons exploring.
> 
> For those who travel solo, there were 3 solo women in our group. We enjoyed getting to know everyone.
> 
> We are in the process of deciding which one we will do next. Can’t recommend highly enough.


Sounds fantastic! Was this a family trip, or adults only? I’ve looked at Backroads family camping trips, because my city kids really want to go camping and neither me nor my DW know the first thing about it. The one and only time I’ve tent camped in my life was when I was 10 years old with the Girl Scouts, and I hated it. LOL. I’m willing to give it another try for my kids, but I’d rather go with someone who knows what they’re doing!


----------



## BluesTraveler

Our trip was adults-only, so the shorter time worked well for us.  The trip was 5 days/4 nights, and it was a true 5 days - we didn't say goodbye to the group until 3pm that afternoon.    Their trips range from 3 nights to 9 nights, so there's a lot of variability.  

@Ava, the guides were telling us how fantastic the family camping ones are, and they sounded really, really good.  

@sayhello - we had a wide range of folks.  Youngest was 22, oldest was 73 (?).  Everyone was well-traveled.  2 people had done 10 (!) BR trips, probably 5 people had done 4-6 trips, and then the rest of us were new to BR.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Calfan said:


> That sounds fantastic!  Love the comment about the quality of the food and that it was all included.  Will definitely have to give Backroads another look.  I've tended to not seriously consider them because their trips look to be shorter than our typical family vacation, but they could be a good option when I abandon my family to go hiking with CaliforniaGirl09, lol, or we could possibly put two trips together for a longer family vacay.  So glad you had such a great trip.


I was thinking the same thing  sounds amazing!


----------



## AquaDame

We leave tomorrow for China where we are mostly following in ABD's itinerary with other tour providers or on our own (with some exceptions in hotels and a couple of activities; we are not going to Guilin, we are doing a full day behind the scenes with pandas in Chengdu, etc). One thing I will say is I feel far more nervous about everything falling into place than I would be if I was going to be greeted by guides who would handle any mishaps for us! I've had a knot in my gut since Monday!


----------



## sayhello

AquaDame said:


> We leave tomorrow for China where we are mostly following in ABD's itinerary with other tour providers or on our own (with some exceptions in hotels and a couple of activities; we are not going to Guilin, we are doing a full day behind the scenes with pandas in Chengdu, etc). One thing I will say is I feel far more nervous about everything falling into place than I would be if I was going to be greeted by guides who would handle any mishaps for us! I've had a knot in my gut since Monday!


Wow!  Enjoy China!  I can understand that trepidation!  I would never attempt China on my own, so I give you kudos for doing that!  

Please come back and tell us all about your trip!  The all-day behind the scenes with the pandas in Chengdu sounds fabulous!

Safe travels!

Sayhello


----------



## EllinK

Yes, I would love a report of your OYO travel. The full day panda experience is definitely on my list!


----------



## AquaDame

We had a lovely trip and I am glad we went but to be honest I was running out of patience by the time we were done... China is different for sure!

Overall I would say things were easier than I feared. Our guides were lovely though I had some trouble being understood in some cases - for instance in Xian at the terra-cotta warriors I asked if they had any idea what were in some of the pots that were found and she replied that yes they found many pots, that sort of thing. On the train from Chengdu to Xian they were selling larger model trains and we tried asking the gent if he had any smaller trains but that didn't work... google translate didn't make sense to him, and miming didn't work either but tried to give up and he wouldn't leave. At that point he could smell a sell and kept trying to get us to buy the larger one. He came back three times throughout our ride! We also had a minor incident in Shanghai at the Disneyland Hotel when my husband asked at the front desk whether there was anywhere to buy cough drops as we were running low and they tried to call us a taxi to take us to a hospital. No amount of telling them it was not a big deal would calm them down. They said they would contact a service to bring us medicine and they would call us in our room so we left, then about 10 minutes later they came up to our room asking if I was sure my husband didn't need to go to a hospital and then trying to get me to make an appointment to see a nurse the next day. Finally we did convince them to let us see how he was feeling in the morning as it was already late - and thankfully they did not check back in with us.

The guide in Chengdu was still learning I think as she kept asking the driver (who supposedly did not know much english) how to say things. The guides in Beijing and Shanghai were fully fluent - we actually ended up having Miki in Shanghai whom I think others in this thread or others have mentioned using. We weren't going to have a guide there until the last minute so I did not book that portion with Catherine Liu Tours. They were on time every day, stuck to our schedule, took us to good places to eat when we were hungry and did all the ordering etc. The Lao Shan buddha is currently being cleaned and has scaffolding so they gave us other options if we wanted to change that portion but we had known about it and went anyway. It was nice how flexible they were and that they were watching out for us.

I greatly enjoyed being able to talk with the guides about their homes and lives during our car trips. Each of the areas we went to (Hong Kong, Chengdu, Xian, Beijing and Shanghai) had very different rules around buying homes, getting driver's licenses etc and were willing to chat with us fairly freely. Much as people have said with the ABD guides they knew where the "nice" bathrooms were, were kind about dietary restrictions and concerns and we felt well cared for. Unlike the ABD tour I did not have an english speaker with me 100% of the time so we did end up with a few odd food choices at certain times - at dinner when the guides were done for the day for example, or on the transfers from the station to the hotel when the guide was not present as the drivers were not english speakers. I was able to use google translate to read menus in some cases but the translations were weird and yes, at one point we ended up with a duck head where google merely said "smoked duck". The "pig dumpling" ended up being pig shaped and had custard inside. I'm guessing that can happen during OYO time too though! If anything I kind of missed having MORE OYO time... with a guide constantly at my side I didn't always advocate for them to leave us for awhile so I could shop or rest. At the Shanghai Tower it was VERY hot and I wanted a drink so I had to ask for her to let me go buy something and then she sat watching me while I drank it. When grabbing a drink or snack we tried to get them something but were always declined. In a group they build in time for browsing and breaks so it wouldn't have felt so awkward...!

The Panda volunteer day was so worth it... we were never asked for more money to take pictures with the pandas - our guide had already set it up so she could take pics of us all day as we were working. We started by cleaning up panda poop in one of the pens and swept up. After that we were allowed to feed the panda some carrot sticks. Then we walked around the complex and enjoyed the pandas on display. Later we had a meal with the workers (there was very little to eat if you were vegetarian - they had plain rice and one vegetable dish but the rest all had meat in it) and they had us watch a video about the earthquake that damaged the base and studies/work they have been doing. We could have taken a break but decided to wander the complex some more and take more pictures as guests. There were many school groups visiting that day and they all excitedly practiced saying 'hello!' 'good morning!' and 'where you from?' with us. Following that we then went back out and removed the old bamboo from two different pens and broke new bamboo poles in half to feed them with. In one of the pens was a mama and her 1 year old baby. They got the mama to go inside while we cleaned up but the baby was up in a tree above our heads. They said they don't become aggressive until they are older so they just said to be sure to leave if he came down from the tree but it was fine to work with him up above our heads if he stayed up there. We then fed another panda some more carrots and then went to the kitchen and formed some "panda cakes" that they steam for the next day. After that we were done and received our certificates and t-shirts. I'm really glad we did this as it was pretty unique and we have a ton of lovely photos from the day.

Other highlights if anyone has questions about them: Victoria Peak, Star Ferry, Huanglongshi Ancient Town, the Muslim Street area, Hangyang tomb, Xian city wall, Mutianyu portion of the Great Wall, the Forbidden City (Palace Museum), Tiananmen square, The Summer Palace, Temple of Heaven, Jingshan Park, some hutong areas, visited a water village, saw the only portion of Shanghai's city wall that is left, Yu Garden, Jade Buddha Temple, and the Former French concession. We also saw the Face Changing Opera in Chengdu, had the Tang show and dumpling feast in Xian and saw the Kung Fu show in Beijing.

As far as hotels I was glad we stayed at the Explorer's Lodge for HK Disneyland over the DLH there as it had more character IMO and was cheaper. We wandered to the Hollywood hotel for breakfast and had dinner at Walt's Cafe at the DLH. We also stayed at the Sheraton Hong Kong Hotel and Towers with a harbor view room and it was just OK. The lobby smelled a bit like smoke and didn't have a very nice entry from the street. The streets we wandered in Hong Kong were very dirty with trash and mystery puddles - the A/C units above the streets all dribbled down on our heads and there was a sewery smell in the area that was too much for me. I had also caught a cold and wasn't feeling very good that day so maybe I was in a bad mood but I had wished we stayed at the explorer's lodge that night for the fresh air... Chengdu didn't smell but there was a lot of pollution over the city when we were there. I wasn't expecting that until we hit Beijing. The hotel we stayed at was great - it is called the Temple House. They upgraded us to a room with a washer/dryer which was an extra bonus but the hotel was exceptionally clean and very modern with a really unique entry. It is near a generic/high end shopping district which had some places with english menus so ordering our own breakfasts was manageable. In Xian we stayed at the Sofitel Xian on Renmin Square - the price was right but the room was pretty dated. It was also huge and had a nice view though so it was still a win in my book - we were only there one night after all. Our guides were pleased I had looked into a good location as they said often guests choose an American chain over location not thinking about the hour each way to pick them up and drop them off. In Beijing I copied Disney and booked the Rosewood. Zero regrets and was my favorite hotel of the trip. They gave us a very high floor and I enjoyed the huge soaking tub and view of the city every night. Beijing was great - the weather was gorgeous and we had blue skies - no pollution at all during our days there. We stayed at the Disneyland Hotel in Shanghai and while it was fine we had the aforementioned English snafus and I called down that our shower was not draining and they said they would send someone up to fix it but it still did not drain the next day either. For the extra money over the Toy Story hotel I would have hoped they'd fix it for us... the bus ride from TS would have been shorter also so if I were to go back I'd probably just stay there. We also spent two nights at the airbnb which I can't recommend and really regret. We've stayed at many in several countries and this was only the second time I strongly considered moving to a different hotel instead of staying there. If it had been earlier than 8pm and/or we had been staying longer than two nights I would have.

All in all it cost us about 3K for the guides/drivers/train fares from Chengdu to Xian and Xian to Beijing in first class seats/entry fees to all the non-disney sites, plus another ~3K for our hotels, food and souvenirs. Our internal flights were ~$400. Disney's trip doesn't include airfare to China so I'm guessing that bit doesn't matter...

Any other questions or concerns hit me up!


----------



## TXTransplant

Ava said:


> Sounds fantastic! Was this a family trip, or adults only? I’ve looked at Backroads family camping trips, because my city kids really want to go camping and neither me nor my DW know the first thing about it. The one and only time I’ve tent camped in my life was when I was 10 years old with the Girl Scouts, and I hated it. LOL. I’m willing to give it another try for my kids, but I’d rather go with someone who knows what they’re doing!



I haven't posted here in forever, but my son and I just finished a Thanksgiving trip to Havasu Falls, which includes 30+ miles of hiking and tent camping.  We used a company called Wildland Trekking, and I can't possibly say enough good things about our two guides.  The trip itself was also incredible, and I wouldn't hesitate to use this company again.

I do not enjoy camping and will not camp just for the sake of it, but camping is pretty much the only way to see Havasu Falls (which was on my must-do travel list).  We were a group of 8 (a family of 6 that we did not know plus myself and my son) plus two guides.

Wildland Trekking provided ALL of the gear (day packs, sleeping bags and mats, tents, etc.) as well as all of the food, which they prepared for us.  The food was SO good...we ate like kings!

I booked this trip back in April because I knew we wanted to go, and I didn't want it to sell out, but the family that traveled with us didn't book until about 3 months before the trip.  I asked the guides what would have happened if my son and I had been the only ones to book...and they said we still would have gone, just with one guide!

Wildland Trekking offers a variety of other trips, both domestic and international.  Most include a good bit of hiking, but not all are camping.  I've got my eye on an inn/lodge based trip in Yellowstone (they also offer camping trips in Yellowstone, Yosemite, and a variety of other places).  They are also very affordable (esp. compared to ABD, Tauck, and the other companies), even on the inn/lodge based trips.

If anyone has any questions about Wildland Trekking or about visiting Havasu Falls, feel free to reply or DM me.

I documented our trip on Instagram.  My account is public, but I don't want to post my user name here, so just DM me here if you are on Instagram and want to see pictures, and I will send you my user name.

I'm also looking at a Backroads trip that is bicycling through the Normandy area of France, with two days spent exploring the beaches and history of the invasion.  I'm not sure when we might go (my travel list is really long), but this one place I definitely want my son to see.

We are doing Jasper National Park, Banff, and Lake Louise in June 2019 on our own (no camping, though!).


----------



## aggiedog

That sounds amazing.  After a recent knee replacement, I've discovered I really like hiking.  I'l definitely look into that company.

I just got back last month from a trip to Banff and Jasper.  Ah.maz.ing.  Truly.  You'll have a great time.  Please plan on hiking to the tea house at Lake Louise for me.  I didn't get to do it and I'm still regretting it.


----------



## laceltris3

Tauck Bridges has a new river cruise in Portugal in 2020. Boat only accommodates 84 and has 4 guides. That seems about an ABD ratio. I think I am going to put a deposit down, and you have 2 weeks to cancel once the final itinerary and pricing comes out in February.


----------



## BluesTraveler

laceltris3 said:


> Tauck Bridges has a new river cruise in Portugal in 2020. Boat only accommodates 84 and has 4 guides. That seems about an ABD ratio. I think I am going to put a deposit down, and you have 2 weeks to cancel once the final itinerary and pricing comes out in February.


Oh my goodness, we have been waiting for a family river cruise in Portugal.  I may be putting a deposit down as well.  I'm so glad you posted this.


----------



## laceltris3

BluesTraveler said:


> Oh my goodness, we have been waiting for a family river cruise in Portugal.  I may be putting a deposit down as well.  I'm so glad you posted this.



We put down a deposit for June 24. It's pretty much your pick of the rooms!

 ETA: Ugh. The dates aren't going to work for us. It's a Wednesday to Wednesday. Which means we leave on Monday, get there Tuesday and use our free pre-night. Then we don't get home until Thursday and that Friday after is the 4th of July holiday. I can't waste weekends and burn 9 days of vacation. 

So we transferred to the June 27 Paris to Normandy river cruise. Here's a trick for families of 5: It's cheapest per person to book one parent and the 3 kids as a quad in the highest category suite, and then book the other parent in the lowest category with no single supplement (but still a double bed).


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

We leave for Antarctica with A&K Family on the 19th and I am getting VERY excited!

So far A&K has been good to deal with.  I would rate them about the same as ABD, perhaps giving slightly higher marks to ABD simply because A&K demanded pics of our passport info page and I really dislike uploading personal information like that in this day and age (with all the security breaches).  Also had a situation with an A&K agent telling me we might not be on their booked charter flight from Buenos Aires to Ushuaia because they didn't have dd's passport pic.  I asked how we would get there and she said she "didn't know - maybe on our own".  I don't recall ever having this type of experience with ABD.  So I'd give slightly higher marks to ABD on their call centre staff.

A&K Family is covering 2 additional nights at the Park Hyatt in BA and also a half day city tour of the Recoleta district for us. This isn't something that they offer everyone - I asked my TA what he could do for us (I use SMV to book our ABDs and we always get a nice discount), and he got A&K to put together this for us. I figure it's worth around $1,000.00, so that's quite nice.  On our full OYO day I booked a full day private tour with vehicle with BA Tours; I am a bit worried about petty crime / pick pockets so wanted to make sure we have a local with us at all times when we are touring. Plus we really only have 2 half days and 1 full day in the city so I want to see as much as possible.

Packing is proving to be difficult.  Summer clothes for BA, casual and active winter clothes for Antarctica (plus a few nice outfits -- for Christmas Eve and Christmas dinner, New Years Eve and my birthday -- which will on the ship), Christmas decorations for our room, including a small pre-lit tree and a few gifts for dd. A lot of room is required, and for the first time ever I am going to take 2 checked bags. I figure I'd rather have a bit too much vs not enough.  With our cabin being only 200 square feet I am not sure where we will store 3 checked bags -- I'm hoping the ship has a magic storage area or they all fit under the beds!

I already had a Christmas gathering with my sister and her family over Thanksgiving. It was really nice. My brother had to cancel at the last minute which was unfortunate. My sister and her family had a great time (she doesn't really get along with my brother and she commented on how relaxing it was!). We exchanged gifts and really enjoyed our time together. 

I will report on the trip when we get back!


----------



## Ava

TXTransplant said:


> I haven't posted here in forever, but my son and I just finished a Thanksgiving trip to Havasu Falls, which includes 30+ miles of hiking and tent camping.  We used a company called Wildland Trekking, and I can't possibly say enough good things about our two guides.  The trip itself was also incredible, and I wouldn't hesitate to use this company again.
> 
> I do not enjoy camping and will not camp just for the sake of it, but camping is pretty much the only way to see Havasu Falls (which was on my must-do travel list).  We were a group of 8 (a family of 6 that we did not know plus myself and my son) plus two guides.
> 
> Wildland Trekking provided ALL of the gear (day packs, sleeping bags and mats, tents, etc.) as well as all of the food, which they prepared for us.  The food was SO good...we ate like kings!
> 
> I booked this trip back in April because I knew we wanted to go, and I didn't want it to sell out, but the family that traveled with us didn't book until about 3 months before the trip.  I asked the guides what would have happened if my son and I had been the only ones to book...and they said we still would have gone, just with one guide!
> 
> Wildland Trekking offers a variety of other trips, both domestic and international.  Most include a good bit of hiking, but not all are camping.  I've got my eye on an inn/lodge based trip in Yellowstone (they also offer camping trips in Yellowstone, Yosemite, and a variety of other places).  They are also very affordable (esp. compared to ABD, Tauck, and the other companies), even on the inn/lodge based trips.
> 
> If anyone has any questions about Wildland Trekking or about visiting Havasu Falls, feel free to reply or DM me.
> 
> I documented our trip on Instagram.  My account is public, but I don't want to post my user name here, so just DM me here if you are on Instagram and want to see pictures, and I will send you my user name.
> 
> I'm also looking at a Backroads trip that is bicycling through the Normandy area of France, with two days spent exploring the beaches and history of the invasion.  I'm not sure when we might go (my travel list is really long), but this one place I definitely want my son to see.
> 
> We are doing Jasper National Park, Banff, and Lake Louise in June 2019 on our own (no camping, though!).


Thank you for the recommendation! I finally had a chance to peruse Wildland Trekking’s website & they have some very nice looking trips. It says the minimum age for most scheduled trips is 12, so I’ll put them on the list as a possibility in the future.


----------



## carpenta

WE did a Tauck Bridges river cruise on the Danube and can't say enough good things about the trip. It opened our eyes to other providers than ABD.


----------



## laceltris3

.


----------



## calypso726

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> We leave for Antarctica with A&K Family on the 19th and I am getting VERY excited!
> 
> So far A&K has been good to deal with.  I would rate them about the same as ABD, perhaps giving slightly higher marks to ABD simply because A&K demanded pics of our passport info page and I really dislike uploading personal information like that in this day and age (with all the security breaches).  Also had a situation with an A&K agent telling me we might not be on their booked charter flight from Buenos Aires to Ushuaia because they didn't have dd's passport pic.  I asked how we would get there and she said she "didn't know - maybe on our own".  I don't recall ever having this type of experience with ABD.  So I'd give slightly higher marks to ABD on their call centre staff.
> 
> A&K Family is covering 2 additional nights at the Park Hyatt in BA and also a half day city tour of the Recoleta district for us. This isn't something that they offer everyone - I asked my TA what he could do for us (I use SMV to book our ABDs and we always get a nice discount), and he got A&K to put together this for us. I figure it's worth around $1,000.00, so that's quite nice.  On our full OYO day I booked a full day private tour with vehicle with BA Tours; I am a bit worried about petty crime / pick pockets so wanted to make sure we have a local with us at all times when we are touring. Plus we really only have 2 half days and 1 full day in the city so I want to see as much as possible.
> 
> Packing is proving to be difficult.  Summer clothes for BA, casual and active winter clothes for Antarctica (plus a few nice outfits -- for Christmas Eve and Christmas dinner, New Years Eve and my birthday -- which will on the ship), Christmas decorations for our room, including a small pre-lit tree and a few gifts for dd. A lot of room is required, and for the first time ever I am going to take 2 checked bags. I figure I'd rather have a bit too much vs not enough.  With our cabin being only 200 square feet I am not sure where we will store 3 checked bags -- I'm hoping the ship has a magic storage area or they all fit under the beds!
> 
> I already had a Christmas gathering with my sister and her family over Thanksgiving. It was really nice. My brother had to cancel at the last minute which was unfortunate. My sister and her family had a great time (she doesn't really get along with my brother and she commented on how relaxing it was!). We exchanged gifts and really enjoyed our time together.
> 
> I will report on the trip when we get back!



We leave for Antarctica a few days after you on Christmas. I was torn between A&K and Lindblad/NatGeo. I have heard nothing but good things about each of them.  I would have loved to do A&K's Antarctica with South Georgia and the Falkland Islands tour. Alas, not enough vacay time for that one. We booked with Lindblad/NatGeo and are on the Orion expedition cruise. So far so good on our end with them. We did have to provide a medical consent form from our doctor stating we were healthy enough with no life threatening conditions and physically capable of handling the trip. Due to the PTO allotments from our jobs we opted not to add a pre or post stay to the trip. We will be flying from Miami into Santiago Chile and staying one night at the Santiago Mandarin Oriental. We haven't planned any day tours and will just do some exploring on our own or book something spur of the moment if available. Then we take a private charter plane to Ushuaia and embark on the Orion. 

As for packing, DH is renting the waterproof boots, pants etc from them. They provide the waterproof parkas when we arrive which we get to keep. Nice touch! I'm renting the boots but not the pants. At 5 feet tall, they will certainly be too long. I am currently purchasing online and narrowing down which waterproof pants look the least hideous. Everything I've read states casual for the trip because it is an expedition ship. None the less, I will bring a couple of slightly dressier sweaters and wear them with black jeans for New Year's eve and my 50th birthday on New Year's Day. DH is happy he doesn't have to dress up. It's just as well that we don't need really dressy clothes too like a suit or dress. Less to pack which is fine since we are in steerage for this trip. Our cabin is only 175 sq feet. 

I am excited to hear about your trip and look forward to your feedback! A&K is still on my radar for other trips down the line.


----------



## EllinK

I'm excited to hear about both of these Antarctica trips! It is definitely on my list.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

calypso726 said:


> We leave for Antarctica a few days after you on Christmas. I was torn between A&K and Lindblad/NatGeo. I have heard nothing but good things about each of them.  I would have loved to do A&K's Antarctica with South Georgia and the Falkland Islands tour. Alas, not enough vacay time for that one. We booked with Lindblad/NatGeo and are on the Orion expedition cruise. So far so good on our end with them. We did have to provide a medical consent form from our doctor stating we were healthy enough with no life threatening conditions and physically capable of handling the trip. Due to the PTO allotments from our jobs we opted not to add a pre or post stay to the trip. We will be flying from Miami into Santiago Chile and staying one night at the Santiago Mandarin Oriental. We haven't planned any day tours and will just do some exploring on our own or book something spur of the moment if available. Then we take a private charter plane to Ushuaia and embark on the Orion.
> 
> As for packing, DH is renting the waterproof boots, pants etc from them. They provide the waterproof parkas when we arrive which we get to keep. Nice touch! I'm renting the boots but not the pants. At 5 feet tall, they will certainly be too long. I am currently purchasing online and narrowing down which waterproof pants look the least hideous. Everything I've read states casual for the trip because it is an expedition ship. None the less, I will bring a couple of slightly dressier sweaters and wear them with black jeans for New Year's eve and my 50th birthday on New Year's Day. DH is happy he doesn't have to dress up. It's just as well that we don't need really dressy clothes too like a suit or dress. Less to pack which is fine since we are in steerage for this trip. Our cabin is only 175 sq feet.
> 
> I am excited to hear about your trip and look forward to your feedback! A&K is still on my radar for other trips down the line.



It is too bad we didn't end up on the same trip!  We looked at Nat Geo as well, but S. Georgia and the Falkland Islands sold us on A&K. My dd went on a Nat Geo student expedition in the summer and she LOVED it.  I found them to be fantastic to deal with.

Interestingly A&K provides the boots, pants and walking sticks (as free rentals - which will be on the ship for us when we get there), but I had to bring my own pants because I need a 35" inseam and the ones they provide are only 31.5" and I am very self conscious about pants that are too short.  Parkas are also provided that we get to keep.  No medical forms needed, but they did need to see our proof of insurance with evidence of $50,000.00 med evacuation coverage (the insurance cost me just over $1,000.00 ).

I can't wait to see your pics and hear about your trip.  Ours is supposed to be casual as well, but I've been in the situation with "casual" trips before where I only had jeans and other guests really dress up.  So I am taking a nice skirt, black tights and a few sweaters that I can wear with boots on my birthday, Christmas and New Years!

I didn't know you were a Capricorn as well!  Happy early 50th birthday to you!  What a great way to spend your special birthday!


----------



## calypso726

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> It is too bad we didn't end up on the same trip!  We looked at Nat Geo as well, but S. Georgia and the Falkland Islands sold us on A&K. My dd went on a Nat Geo student expedition in the summer and she LOVED it.  I found them to be fantastic to deal with.
> 
> Interestingly A&K provides the boots, pants and walking sticks (as free rentals - which will be on the ship for us when we get there), but I had to bring my own pants because I need a 35" inseam and the ones they provide are only 31.5" and I am very self conscious about pants that are too short.  Parkas are also provided that we get to keep.  No medical forms needed, but they did need to see our proof of insurance with evidence of $50,000.00 med evacuation coverage (the insurance cost me just over $1,000.00 ).
> 
> I can't wait to see your pics and hear about your trip.  Ours is supposed to be casual as well, but I've been in the situation with "casual" trips before where I only had jeans and other guests really dress up.  So I am taking a nice skirt, black tights and a few sweaters that I can wear with boots on my birthday, Christmas and New Years!
> 
> I didn't know you were a Capricorn as well!  Happy early 50th birthday to you!  What a great way to spend your special birthday!



Your trip is going to be AH-Mazing! It was the one I wanted to do but work got in the way. It would have been so much fun to be on the same trip together too. I don't think the rentals are free with our trip so that is one advantage A&K has over Lindblad/NatGeo. I usually need a 29" inseam or I am tripping over my own feet.

Good tip about the casual attire. I recall making a pact here with other travelers on the same Scotland ABD that we would only bring jeans or cords to wear at dinner so none of us would be the only one in jeans or cords. It worked out well.

Yup, Capricorn too. I can't wait to see your pictures!!!


----------



## BluesTraveler

Happy birthday to both of you and I'll look forward to your reviews when you get back - Antartica is high on my list!!


----------



## sayhello

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> We leave for Antarctica with A&K Family on the 19th and I am getting VERY excited!
> 
> So far A&K has been good to deal with.  I would rate them about the same as ABD, perhaps giving slightly higher marks to ABD simply because A&K demanded pics of our passport info page and I really dislike uploading personal information like that in this day and age (with all the security breaches).  Also had a situation with an A&K agent telling me we might not be on their booked charter flight from Buenos Aires to Ushuaia because they didn't have dd's passport pic.  I asked how we would get there and she said she "didn't know - maybe on our own".  I don't recall ever having this type of experience with ABD.  So I'd give slightly higher marks to ABD on their call centre staff.


I'm sorry, but "I don't know" is an unacceptable answer!  The correct answer is "I will find out for you."  That sort of thing would really turn me off to a provider.  And I *really* dislike that you had to upload pics of your passport.  I cringe enough giving airlines my passport number!  Hmmmmm...  Looking forward to your report!



calypso726 said:


> As for packing, DH is renting the waterproof boots, pants etc from them. They provide the waterproof parkas when we arrive which we get to keep. Nice touch! I'm renting the boots but not the pants. At 5 feet tall, they will certainly be too long. I am currently purchasing online and narrowing down which waterproof pants look the least hideous.


If what you are looking for is a waterproof layer that you can wear over other (warmer) pants, I highly recommend these from Eddie Bauer.  I wore them in Iceland, and they are not stiff, don't look awful, and were completely waterproof.  And they come in Petite!

https://www.eddiebauer.com/product/Womens-Cloud-Cap-Rain-Pants/38989579?showProducts=111&previousPage=type&pSrch=CLOUD CAP RAIN PANT






Looking forward to your report, too!  

Sayhello


----------



## LSUlakes

Has anyone here hiked to Everest base camp? If so I would love to hear about your experience and suggestions. TIA


----------



## Aelin1977

LSUlakes said:


> Has anyone here hiked to Everest base camp? If so I would love to hear about your experience and suggestions. TIA



National Geographic has a trip where you go to Everst Base Camp but I know that you need to have a medical certificate stating that you're capable of handling conditions.


----------



## LSUlakes

Aelin1977 said:


> National Geographic has a trip where you go to Everst Base Camp but I know that you need to have a medical certificate stating that you're capable of handling conditions.



I came across that one and it looks good. So far it's between them, REI,and iTREK. iTREK is one I found from a couple who did a vlog of their trip. I assume the medical certificate is nothing more than a physical? I've done a few marathons, and while I'm not in great marathon shape at the moment I think my plan would be to train for a marathon before leaving for this trip. Thats about as prepared as I can get for this trip living just a few feet above sea level.


----------



## Aelin1977

This is what it states on the Nat Geo trip:

During our 14-day trek, we will hike 4 to 10 hours per day (2 to 10 miles) on moderate to steep grades, at elevations ranging from 9,318 feet to a maximum of 18,192 feet. Some days will be rest days with optional hikes to properly acclimatize. Your trip leader will set a suitable pace to minimize risk of altitude issues. Porters and pack animals will transport our gear. A signed medical consent form from your doctor will be required for participation. 

I would check with the tour operators you are considering and find out what the medical requirements are. Will help you prepare, even at sea level.


----------



## EllinK

Checking back for news from our Antarctic travelers...


----------



## calypso726

EllinK said:


> Checking back for news from our Antarctic travelers...



Still in Antarctica. It is an outstanding trip. Here are some random thoughts. We were fortunate that our Drake passage was smooth. The Captain said it was the smoothest he’s ever experienced. Last week one of the ships had 3 windows blown out due to the rough passage. It is really cool to be on an Expedition ship that has these amazing stabilizers so that you don’t really feel the motion for such a small ship. The crew is phenomenal and many have been on this same ship, The Orion, for well over a decade. The itinerary is very loose and we are experiencing Antarctica by letting it come to us so to speak. This allow us the flexibility to see and do more. 

There is a recap after each landing at the end of the day to discuss what we saw and ask questions. Having scientists and researchers on board who are so passionate really adds to the experience. Having National Geographic photographers show you how to use your camera and provide tips for every skill level is really great! 

I chose a smaller ship because no more than 100 people are allowed to be at any of the landings sites at a given time. This allowed me to be sure we’d always have the maximum amount of time and not have to hurry up or wait for anyone to get back. The Orion’s capacity is 102. I am really glad I picked a smaller ship. 

We were required to take a private charter flight from Santiago to Ushuaia that was not included in the price. I do like that any internal flights with ABD are included. So that was an additional $1240 per person on top of the $15,380 per person for the trip. All gratuities are included though, so that is nice. The ship is an expedition ship that has been overhauled to be more like a small cruise ship on the interior but it can still break through ice. The food has been fantastic. 

Our guides and the team have been great but it isn’t like having ABD guides. Feel free to ask any questions. Here are some pictures from Antarctica.


----------



## EllinK

Your pictures are amazing! What is the age breakdown on your trip? We have a teen so was wondering if there are many (any)?


----------



## Ava

Great pictures! Seeing those animals in their natural habitat must be amazing.


----------



## calypso726

EllinK said:


> Your pictures are amazing! What is the age breakdown on your trip? We have a teen so was wondering if there are many (any)?



Thank you! There are some teens about 10 or so, there are some tweens and a handful of the under 10 crowd.


----------



## calypso726

Ava said:


> Great pictures! Seeing those animals in their natural habitat must be amazing.



Thank you! Yes, seeing them in their natural habitat is indescribable.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

EllinK said:


> Checking back for news from our Antarctic travelers...



We are on our way back across the Drake Passage currently.  UnfortuNately it’s on the rough side; I’m okay so far but don’t know how much longer I’ll be able to hold on.  Definitely get the patches before you go — they are working well for me!

I have mixed feelings about the trip.  I need to take some time to digest my feelings before I post a comprehensive report.

The ship is amazing.  Food is just okay, not great (the fresh breads every day are the highlight of the food).

We had a medical evacuation, which cut our trip short by a day in Antarctica.  I cannot express my disappointment since we only touched foot on the continent once before we had to head to King George Island where our ship was met by a medical plane.  We ended up picking up a passenger from the Island Sky on our way back.  I hope both passengers are okay.

I will post more when I can formulate my thoughts.


----------



## sayhello

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> We are on our way back across the Drake Passage currently.  UnfortuNately it’s on the rough side; I’m okay so far but don’t know how much longer I’ll be able to hold on.  Definitely get the patches before you go — they are working well for me!
> 
> I have mixed feelings about the trip.  I need to take some time to digest my feelings before I post a comprehensive report.
> 
> The ship is amazing.  Food is just okay, not great (the fresh breads every day are the highlight of the food).
> 
> We had a medical evacuation, which cut our trip short by a day in Antarctica.  I cannot express my disappointment since we only touched foot on the continent once before we had to head to King George Island where our ship was met by a medical plane.  We ended up picking up a passenger from the Island Sky on our way back.  I hope both passengers are okay.
> 
> I will post more when I can formulate my thoughts.


I'm so sorry to hear your time in Antarctica got cut short!  I can only imagine how frustrating and disappointing something like that must be!  You understand intellectually, but in your heart -- sigh.  

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts overall.

Sayhello


----------



## calypso726

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> We are on our way back across the Drake Passage currently.  UnfortuNately it’s on the rough side; I’m okay so far but don’t know how much longer I’ll be able to hold on.  Definitely get the patches before you go — they are working well for me!
> 
> I have mixed feelings about the trip.  I need to take some time to digest my feelings before I post a comprehensive report.
> 
> The ship is amazing.  Food is just okay, not great (the fresh breads every day are the highlight of the food).
> 
> We had a medical evacuation, which cut our trip short by a day in Antarctica.  I cannot express my disappointment since we only touched foot on the continent once before we had to head to King George Island where our ship was met by a medical plane.  We ended up picking up a passenger from the Island Sky on our way back.  I hope both passengers are okay.
> 
> I will post more when I can formulate my thoughts.



Oh no! So sorry to hear your trip was cut short. We got out of the Drake Passage this morning. The Captain decided to leave a little earlier so we could avoid the worst of it. Glad he did. The seas got as high as 21 feet at some points last night. It’s the roughest I have ever experienced but still no where as bad as I was expecting. Hope it calms down for you. Safe travels.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

We arrived back early this morning.

I will try to encapsulate my thoughts about A&K as best as I can.  I am not sure if it's fair to judge them based on a cruise as opposed to a land excursion, but here goes...

A few months before the trip I called A&K to get an idea of the ages of the teens on the trip.  Apparently sometime during the past 12 months they decided they would no longer release this information (no ages or division of the sexes, not even a tally of how many kids / teens were on the trip).  When we got to the ship, we discovered that the majority of the kids on the trip were with a large family group.  There were 2 large groups on our ship -- a family group (26) and a group of friends (31).  Both groups pretty much stuck to themselves.

We had been told that there would be an A&K photography "expert" on the ship, which I was thrilled to hear since my new Sony mirrorless camera has been giving me some problems.  However I am unsure what he was supposed to be doing with our group.  He gave 2 lectures (one was on our unplanned sea day), was on deck a few times to "help" (with what I'm not sure because when I was on deck with him he was pointing out birds) and had 2 one-on-one sessions, each an hour in length (first come, first to be seen -- with long lines both times).  He was never on shore to give suggestions / insight with pictures, nor did he take any pictures with families.  Twice I asked him questions about my camera and he said he'd look up the Sony manual online and get back to me, but he never did!

The Ponant photographer was quite good, but she only took 3 pictures of myself and my daughter.  I believe the primary issue is that she primarily went ashore with the "red" group and we were in the "green" group.  This was a huge disappointment.

The naturalists were amazing and very well informed.  On sea days there were at least 3 lectures of an hour in length, which you could either watch in the theater or in your room on the television.  I enjoyed all of the lectures and really learned a lot.

The "Young Explorers" activities were nice.  Usually there were 2 per day (including most sea days) and most managed to capture the interest of my 16 year old dd.  She and a friend she made on the trip were asked by one of the marine biologists to help give a lecture on marine life below the surface on our second to last day on the ship.  Her and her new bff did an excellent job (I may be biased!).

With respect to the demographics, aside from the 2 groups already mentioned, there were 3 single ladies traveling (2 around mid 50s and 1 mid 60s), well more than a dozen "mature couples" (in the mid 60-70 age range) and a few families (most with either 10-12 year olds or kids in their early to mid 20s).  There was just one other 16 year old on the ship and my dd and him became fast friends.

Itinerary: I felt this was good.  We enjoyed the Falkland Islands and South Georgia was just stunning.  I am glad that we got to visit these special places.  However if I ever have the opportunity to do the trip again (and I hope that I will), I would go on a cruise that heads directly to Antarctica so that I could spend the maximum amount of time on the continent as possible.  The medical evacuation cut our time on the continent short by 1 day and I have no words to express my disappointment.  We have learned the reason for the evacuation and it turns out that it wasn't necessary to turn the ship around as quickly as we did. So this really stings. I won't post details, but pm me if you'd like and I will elaborate a bit more.

I don't feel that we had the equivalent of ABD guides on the trip.  Landings had the naturalists posted at various points along our route to help us stay on the path, but no information was offered on what we were seeing (outside of what we were told the evening before at our "briefing").

Le Lyrial is a stunning ship. She was first put in the water in 2015 and her facilities were excellent.  There were 2 restaurants (one buffet-style and one sit down) open for all 3 meals and 24 hour room service (no additional cost).  There were 2 lounges / bars -- a large one with a dance floor and a smaller and a more intimate one (with a well-equipped games room / library).  There was nightly entertainment in both lounges (a piano player and a singer).  On New Years Eve there was a beautiful piano concert by a classically trained pianist in the theater followed by a DJ in the large lounge -- it was a lot of fun, with most people singing and dancing well past midnight!  The gym had 3 treadmills, 3 "spinning"-style bikes and a recumbent bike.  There was also room for stretching and some kind of resistance machine (no free weights due to the Drake Passage / safety issues).  There was a photo area as well as a lounge-type area for the Young Explorers with couches, a video game system and some activities.  Even though our room was only 200 square feet (we booked the lowest fare class), it was VERY well laid out with plenty of storage (enough for all of our clothing / gear).  I would definitely recommend the rooms on the 300 deck of this ship without hesitation.

A&K had a sales representative on board to promote future trips.  They offered a discount if you booked a trip on board (it varied, but started at $500.00 per person going up to a few thousand dollars on some trips).  She was lovely and had hours on sea days.

Food was an area that I found to be lacking.  The only memorable meal was the Christmas Eve gala dinner (there were 3 Gala dinners in total).  The vegetarian options were either pasta, rice or a plate full of vegetables.  I asked if they had a veggie burger and we received ground up carrots and broccoli in a fried potato pattie in a bun -- it was pretty awful. The cheese selection was amazing and as I mentioned before the freshly baked breads and rolls were delicious.

On Christmas Eve Santa Claus came for a visit and there were gifts for all of the Young Explorers (all from the Falkland Islands: a penguin t-shirt, a Christmas ornament and a stuffed  penguin that says "Falkland Islands" on the chest).  Each stateroom was left a wrapped present on Christmas Eve, which was *1* A&K ski hat -- I guess this is meant to be shared?  Not sure why everyone didn't get one lol.

I am not sure if I would travel with A&K again.  I expected to be blown away with their service, but I found them to be okay.  Nothing horrible, but nothing outstanding either.  I am not sure if it is fair to compare them to ABD since the trip was on a ship, but I would put ABD a bit ahead on overall service if I were to be asked.  One notable point: A&K has a maximum of 24 guests on their family trips, while ABD is somewhere in the area of 40-44.  This is a significant difference and would certainly give me pause.

Luggage: I realized pretty quickly that there was no way I would be able to pack everything that I wanted to and come in at the weight limit of 44lbs per person.  I called A&K a few times and asked what would happen if I went over and had a few different responses, from "paying a surcharge" to being told to "reduce my luggage weight and ship the overage home from the airport" (this seemed a strange response), so I did what any modern person does, which is turn to the internet!  I found a few blogs that mentioned families on A&K trips that were over the max luggage and had no issues.  We ended up going with 3 large suitcases, 2 carry-ons and an x-large rolling duffle bag.  Not one word was said to me and I did not have to pay a surcharge of any kind.  I did feel badly for a few people that I met that stuck to the weight limit because they didn't feel that they had enough clothes for the trip (and had no special clothes for the 3 gala dinners).  Even though an A&K rep explicitly told me that the luggage would not fit in our room (she said the beds were platforms and I couldn't store luggage under them), she was incorrect.  All of our luggage fit comfortably in the room.

A&K price included the charter flight from BA to Ushuaia and rental of goretex pants (we took our own and I'm glad that we did!) and boots.  We also received parkas, A&K Antarctica water bottles and A&K backpacks, which are ours to keep.

We docked in Ushuaia the night before dismebarkation and we all got to enjoy a few hours walking around the town.

Once I upload my pics to my computer I can post a few.  I am happy to answer any questions!


----------



## quinnc19

Thanks for your report. You are getting me excited for our Backroads Yellowstone Teton biking/hiking, camping trip this summer! Although it's a four night trip, I'm kind of glad about that because I don't know that I really want to do more than four nights of camping (DD's request) and it's giving us an opportunity to spend some extra time in Jackson, do some scenic driving in Wyoming, go on a wildlife safari, and spend about a week traveling to and from Glacier National Park. So I think all in all, it'll be a nice combination and full trip. 



BluesTraveler said:


> We just finished our Backroads hiking trip in Arizona. It was so different from ABD that I’m not entirely sure it’s really a competitor. In the Venn diagram of the two, the overlapping customers would be pretty small.
> 
> That said, we were completely blown out of the water. It was a perfect trip in every day. 15 guests, 3 guides, and all meals plus snacks included. Also alcohol. Emphasis was on fresh, high quality food - I’ve never eaten so well on vacation EVER.
> 
> Our guides were outstanding. Each day you had 3 hiking options, and those that stopped earlier had outings to towns/shopping/etc.  We did all the hikes possible and did approx 35 miles in 5 days. Half the group did the minimum miles and spent afternoons exploring.
> 
> For those who travel solo, there were 3 solo women in our group. We enjoyed getting to know everyone.
> 
> We are in the process of deciding which one we will do next. Can’t recommend highly enough.


----------



## carpenta

I agree with you about "camping".....unless it's "glamping" I'm not going LOL....


----------



## tink1970

carpenta said:


> unless it's "glamping" I'm not going LOL



I'm like you, but more like, if it ends in "amping" I'm not going. BTDT in the military, resting on my laurels


----------



## BluesTraveler

@*WDW*Groupie*  - thanks for taking the time to write down your thoughts.  Very interesting.

@quinnc19  - the Backroads leaders were telling us about some of the camping trips and they sound amazing.  They said kids LOVE those trips and the food is amazing.  I think you will love it.  The guides were saying the camping trips are their favorite ones to lead.


----------



## sayhello

BluesTraveler said:


> @*WDW*Groupie*  - thanks for taking the time to write down your thoughts.  Very interesting.
> 
> @quinnc19  - the Backroads leaders were telling us about some of the camping trips and they sound amazing.  They said kids LOVE those trips and the food is amazing.  I think you will love it.  The guides were saying the camping trips are their favorite ones to lead.


It's been many years since I did a Backroads camping trip, but one of the things I vividly remember was the amazing camping cuisine the Guides cooked up in our campsites.  It was really pretty amazing!  

Sayhello


----------



## Donalyn

A co-worker has done a few European Backroads biking tours.  Stayed in chateaus.  Thought they were amazing (the food especially on the France one).


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Molting baby king penguin (called Oakum Boys)


Mom and baby gentoo pengiun - taken on the Falkland Islands


There are over 150,000 penguins in this pictures - 60,000 mating pairs plus babies!  The smell of guano was overwhelming!

Baby chinstrap

Baby fur seal!  These little guys were absolutely adorable and so friendly!

This is a photo taken from (way) up the hill from where Shackleton is buried in Grytviken -- the view was stunning.  Off in the distance on the right hand side is a research station -- the Young Explorers got to tour this and talk with the researchers (no adults were allowed); my dd found this to be fascinating

"Shackleton's Falls" - the area where these falls are located was quite a long hike from our boat.  I have no clue how he made the trek from the other side of South Georgia with little equipment (to reach the whaling station {which is now in a state of disrepair} on the beach where we started from)

For those that chose to participate -- there was optional seal yoga on the beach!

My heart aches looking at these -- I would love to go back and am already thinking of how / when we can go.

There really are no words to describe the unspoiled beauty.


----------



## calypso726

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> Here are a few pictures from Antarctica!  The picture with all the king penguins -- there are over 150,000 in the picture.  It was unbelievable.
> 
> My heart aches looking at these -- I would love to go back and am already thinking of how / when we can go.
> 
> There really are no words to describe the unspoiled beauty.



Love them!!!


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Our naturalist told us that the theory is that the part of the iceberg below the surface (the light blue) is what sank the Titanic.  Because these icebergs go so far below the surface not all of them can be seen; in the case of the Titanic it was too late when they spotted it (so he thinks)

This was taken from the aft deck of the ship. 

Our 7th continent.  Look closely at the sign on the right and you will see the distance to various places.


----------



## tgeorge

WDW Groupie, your photos are amazing! Thank you for sharing


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Looking at the last photo of the macaroni penguin (my memory card was full when we saw them so I have limited pictures) reminds me that we had a 15 minute lecture that evening on the traveling abilities of sea kelp.  Apparently one piece of kelp was tracked and it traveled in over 20,000km.  I kid not.  We saw photos of the journey it took from start to finish.  Also apparently several people tasted the kelp (I was not one of them).  Apparently many people found kelp very interesting.


----------



## sayhello

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> View attachment 374958
> Our naturalist told us that the theory is that the part of the iceberg below the surface (the light blue) is what sank the Titanic.  Because these icebergs go so far below the surface not all of them can be seen; in the case of the Titanic it was too late when they spotted it (so he thinks)
> View attachment 374959
> This was taken from the aft deck of the ship.
> View attachment 374960
> Our 7th continent.  Look closely at the sign on the right and you will see the distance to various places.


Fabulous!!

Sayhello


----------



## distravel

Beautiful photos! Being so close to so many penguins must have been an incredible experience. Did they react at all to presence of humans? Thanks for taking the time to post your trip summary and photos.


----------



## Calfan

Stunning photos. Looks amazing!!


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

distravel said:


> Beautiful photos! Being so close to so many penguins must have been an incredible experience. Did they react at all to presence of humans? Thanks for taking the time to post your trip summary and photos.



Most of the penguins didn't seem to notice the presence of us.  Each landing was limited to 100 people and barriers were set up at a distance of 15 meters (see the red flag with the elephant seal above). However a lot of the seals and penguins crossed the barriers and came right to us.  The only animals that were hostile were the male fur seals who were protecting their territory -- they would charge at us -- we were showed how to keep them at a safe distance from us (some people were afraid of them as the male fur seals are quite large).  The adorable baby fur seals came right up to us!


----------



## tgeorge

Has anyone used Audley tours? They will put together a personalized, independent itineraries and I’m considering them for our trip to Australia in March 2021. If we do a group trip, I think it will be Tauck. I like that they have private charter flights throughout Australia. However, having our own itinerary is also appealing. Just curious if anyone here has used Audley, or knows someone who has.


----------



## EllinK

tgeorge said:


> Has anyone used Audley tours? They will put together a personalized, independent itineraries and I’m considering them for our trip to Australia



I feel like someone on this board has mentioned Audley. I've added them to my list too.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

For anyone that has done a trip with Tauck, are there any agents out there that offer a discount (like what some agents do for an ABD)?  I'm 99% sure that I'm going to book the Tauck Alaska cruise with my son on July 27th.  Would love a discount if one is available


----------



## Dis_Yoda

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> For anyone that has done a trip with Tauck, are there any agents out there that offer a discount (like what some agents do for an ABD)?  I'm 99% sure that I'm going to book the Tauck Alaska cruise with my son on July 27th.  Would love a discount if one is available


If you've done a trip with Tauck before you get a free night before or after the trip. 

I got a couple hundred off my Italy trip but I think thats because I knew the travel agent from Travel Hut so she returned part of her commission back to me.


----------



## carpenta

You can book directly with Tauck and it is very easy. I don't know of any discounts but you can ask and maybe Tauck will refund the commission but it doesn't hurt to ask. We will be doing our 5th trip with Tauck this spring and the free hotel room as mentioned saves a few bucks especially when you travel to Europe with them.


----------



## tink1970

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> For anyone that has done a trip with Tauck, are there any agents out there that offer a discount (like what some agents do for an ABD)?  I'm 99% sure that I'm going to book the Tauck Alaska cruise with my son on July 27th.  Would love a discount if one is available



Agree with @carpenta- I've always just booked directly on the phone with them and the Gift of Time (free pre OR post night hotel) has been worth several hundred dollars-last June we had the extra night at Dromoland Castle-easily worth $500-700.


----------



## kaseyC

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> For anyone that has done a trip with Tauck, are there any agents out there that offer a discount (like what some agents do for an ABD)?  I'm 99% sure that I'm going to book the Tauck Alaska cruise with my son on July 27th.  Would love a discount if one is available



I used a travel agency for my two Tauck trips, they didn't discount the trip but they did give us a substantial amount in gift cards of our choice after final payment.  I don't believe I can mention them on the boards but I'll send you a quick PM with the name.  And as others said the gift of time is a fantastic savings.  Wish ABD offered it, it would save me quite a bit for our pre-night in Hong Kong in July.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

A few final thoughts on A&K Family:

the transfer from the airport included an escort _and_ a driver; the escort knew _everything_ about our trip, group and tours booked and gave us a ton of useful information on our drive to the hotel -- this was very helpful; she also gave us a map and highlighted some local restaurants for us that we could walk to from the hotel
A&K has a Marco Polo club for travelers that have gone on 3 or more of their trips; they have an exclusive party for them on each trip apparently; the party on our ship looked to be well-attended (maybe 50 or so people judging from the pictures); our waiter told us they have very high end hors d'oeuvres (caviar, fancy champagne, etc.) for this group
transfers seemed to be well-handled based on the volume of our group (196 total).  There was an escort with each bus to the airport and this escort came through security with us and accompanied us right to the gate; I imagine moving a group of 196 is not easy but they made it look that way!

upon arriving in Ushuaia there were local escorts on every bus to give us a verbal history of the town and attractions on our way to the hotel for lunch and check-in for our cruise

I like the previously mentioned discount for booking another trip with A&K (you have 30 days to make use of it)
I liked that I was able to book a half day private tour with A&K -- I was VERY impressed with the guide, their flexibility in booking the tour and the quality of the tour (which included pre-booked tickets to tour the Opera House -- very worthwhile)
at the conclusion of our trip they had a group of escorts at the BA airport; one of them came up to the Hard Rock restaurant to tell us the AA desk had opened for us to check-in; high marks for that -- they were excellent and had eyes on our very large group until we had gone through security
I didn't like that coming back from Ushuaia they only had 1 bus to take us from the domestic terminal to the international terminal; we waited quite a while in the heat for the bus to come back after dropping off the first group and our luggage barely made it on the bus -- judging by the size of the group and the amount of luggage I imagine it was going to take at least another 3 or 4 trips to get everyone to the terminal (walking wasn't an option for me due to the amount of luggage I had lol)
Edited to add: if you are thinking about going to Antarctica, I'd recommend going with a company that goes directly to the continent, such as Nat Geo.  As I mentioned previously due to a medical emergency we only spent 90 minutes on the continent before we turned around.  That's a VERY long way to go (and a lot of money to spend) for such a short time.  If I were to go again, I'd look elsewhere -- I'd also likely go with a smaller ship where everyone could go onshore together.

If there are any single travelers out there Nat Geo has a new ship, the Endurance, coming in 2020 that is going to Antarctica and has cabins for singles.  They are currently taking reservations for Antarctica on this new ship in December, 2020 and I'm toying with the idea of booking.


----------



## BluesTraveler

Received this e-mail from Tauck today:
With the assistance of our travel industry partners, we are making it easy for you to fly to Europe from the US and Canada with our Take Off with Tauck inclusive air package providing true value and peace of mind travel. This fully inclusive package covers taxes and fuel surcharges with no hidden fees or surprises and much more!

Enjoy one upfront, flat round-trip price per person from US and Canadian gateways.

$750 per person for Economy Class
$1750 Premium Economy Class
$2990 Business Class

Available for new 2019 bookings only made from January 8 – February 28, 2019. Valid for trips departing March 1 through August 31, 2019. Subject to availability, not combinable with other offers.


----------



## Woodview

Very good  value  &  Price  for those trips.     AND  If it is for Flights from  anywhere in  USA   or Canada

  Go  for  Economy  Class & save money for your shopping   &  your Duty Free  on way back 

  Most Airlines  flying to Europe  are  very good   

Just make sure  of   Luggage weight     allowed for these prices   .....  

 22 lbs   (  10 kgs )  overhead  cabin   +   laptop     &  50 lbs   (  23 Kgs )   for  Hold  Luggage ......... Strictly  enforced


----------



## aggiedog

That would be a steal for us.  Flying from Texas is rarely under $1,000, and frequently more.


----------



## disneyphx

Thanks for all of the Antarctica tips and photos - make me so excited to make that trip finally happen!
Friends went in their daughters senior year of high school - thinking that might be a good to time for DD to visit her 7th continent


----------



## AquaDame

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> If there are any single travelers out there Nat Geo has a new ship, the Endurance, coming in 2020 that is going to Antarctica and has cabins for singles.  They are currently taking reservations for Antarctica on this new ship in December, 2020 and I'm toying with the idea of booking.



Interesting that I only see that one date for the ship so far... I wonder if more will be added later or if they will be using that ship for one of the other itineraries instead? Antarctica is still many years off for us due to cost, but its all very interesting, thank you for taking such care to write everything up!


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

AquaDame said:


> Interesting that I only see that one date for the ship so far... I wonder if more will be added later or if they will be using that ship for one of the other itineraries instead? Antarctica is still many years off for us due to cost, but its all very interesting, thank you for taking such care to write everything up!



They have a few more 2020 dates for the Endurance on their website.

Dd really wants to do the A&K trip again for the Falkland Islands and South Georgia .  I would prefer the Nat Geo trip. She can be very stubborn so we'll have to see how this plays out.  I have convinced myself that we will be booking either with A&K or Nat Geo for 2020 and will be doing a deposit soon.  I can still make use of the A&K return booking discount so that _may_ play a factor.

"Glittering white, shining blue, raven black, in the light of the sun the land looks like a fairy tale.  Pinnacle after pinnacle, peak after peak, crevassed, wild as any land on our globe, it lies unseen and untrodden".  Roald Amundsen


----------



## WanderlustNZ

Some time ago, I mentioned on this forum that I was booked to do a Gate 1 tour of Costa Rica and there were a couple of people interested to hear about my experience. 
I’m not sure if that is still the case, but having now returned home (we did the trip over Xmas and New Year), I thought I’d provide a bit of a rundown and if anyone has questions, I’m happy to answer. 

For a start, I know that Gate 1 is not often a tour company compared with Disney because it is in a much cheaper bracket.  I wanted to say that I was really impressed by the product we received for the price we paid.  We loved the tour and I’m not convinced that paying twice the price for a different tour would have given us twice the enjoyment, particularly since wildlife is not on anyone’s schedule. 

Secondly, this is our experience of just this tour.  I can’t say whether all Gate 1 tours around the world run the same way. 

Our tour was 12 nights and made up of 3 parts.  Every person on our tour was there for the middle part, but numbers were smaller for the pre- and post-extensions. I would recommend both, as Tortuguero and Manuel Antonio were real highlights. 

Pre-extension:
1 night in San Jose
2 nights Tortuguero

The core tour:
1 night San Jose
2 nights in Arenal
2 nights in Monteverde
(We were then split between two buses with some continuing on the post-extension and others going back for a final night in San Jose)

Post-extension:
3 nights in Manuel Antonio
1 San Jose

Note: any time spent in San Jose is really more about logistics than enjoyment as it isn’t a particularly appealing city. 

Transport:
The buses were comfortable and spacious.  During the middle part of the tour our group was almost at 40 (fully booked) but the bus they used seated 50.  This meant that no singles or odd-numbered groups were not forced to sit with strangers.  My family of 3 always had at least 2 pairs of seats. During the pre- and post-extension when the group was smaller we often spread out over 3 pairs of seats and took a window each.

Food:
Ranged from good to great.  It wasn’t all buffets and for some dinners we went to lovely local restaurants where we got to choose from a 3 course menu.  Juice was included with most meals and for some meals a glass of beer, wine or soft drink was also included.  
Everyday, when boarding the bus, we were provided with 2 bottles of water to make sure we stayed hydrated. 

Hotels:
Ranged from okay to great.  I have noticed that for some tours, Gate 1 and Disney use the same hotel in Arenal.  Sadly that was not the case on our tour as our hotel in Arenal was probably our only trip disappointment (it was a pretty hotel in scenic location, but the service was poor).
On the flip side, the one we stayed in in Manuel Antonio (Si Como No) was up there as one of the nicest places I’ve ever stayed.   The views of the ocean and jungle from our balcony were breathtaking.
The one we stayed in in Tortuguero (Evergreen Lodge) was basic but so charming and fitting with the environment, that we also loved it.  We truely felt immersed in nature. 

Guide:
He was professional and knowledgeable.  When we had one hiccup on our trip (our bus broke down due to a mechanical issue the company couldn’t have predicted), both our driver and guide jumped to action with the haste and professionalism I would expect from a well-organised tour.  It meant some changes in plan to our day, but I didn’t see anybody annoyed or complaining. 

Free/optional time:
We had quite a bit of this on our tour which we loved.  While most people opted for the optional tours Gate 1 offered, we loved that we could cater the trip to our exact interests and book some specialised private wildlife tours with well-rated naturalists. 
I like the ease of being on a tour, but the flexibility and ability to escape the crowds that comes with booking things on your own.  We felt like this tour provided the best of both worlds. 
My only criticism would be that the optional tours were plugged a lot on our trip and there was a definite sense that Gate 1 like you to stick with what they’re offering. 

Cost:
Booking during some promotions, we paid approximately US$100 per person, per day, which I thought was a bargain.  Especially considering that over Xmas and New Year, some of our hotels alone would have cost close to what we paid had we booked independently.  For comparison sake, I tried pricing up the whole trip independently and literally could not book it for cheaper. 
Included was half of our day activities, all breakfasts and about half of our lunches and dinners, and all baggage handling.  Gratuities beyond luggage handling were not included.

Highlights:
Seeing the animals.  We saw almost every animal on our bucket list.  I’m happy to highlight this further if anyone is interested, but won’t get started now as I could go on for ages.  

Demographic:
This was a holiday time tour, so the age demographic might be different from other tours, but I would say that age groups across the bus were pretty well spread out. There were people in there 20s and people in their 70s and the spread in between was fairly even.
Kids were the minority with only 3 under-18s on the tour.  My son was the only child who did all 3 legs, but at no stage was this an issue. 
Most tour participants were from the USA or Canada. 

Overall, I have only good things to say and would happily travel with Gate 1 again. 
Happy to answer questions if anyone has any.


----------



## Calfan

WanderlustNZ said:


> Some time ago, I mentioned on this forum that I was booked to do a Gate 1 tour of Costa Rica and there were a couple of people interested to hear about my experience.
> I’m not sure if that is still the case, but having now returned home (we did the trip over Xmas and New Year), I thought I’d provide a bit of a rundown and if anyone has questions, I’m happy to answer.
> 
> For a start, I know that Gate 1 is not often a tour company compared with Disney because it is in a much cheaper bracket.  I wanted to say that I was really impressed by the product we received for the price we paid.  We loved the tour and I’m not convinced that paying twice the price for a different tour would have given us twice the enjoyment, particularly since wildlife is not on anyone’s schedule.
> 
> Secondly, this is our experience of just this tour.  I can’t say whether all Gate 1 tours around the world run the same way.
> 
> Our tour was 12 nights and made up of 3 parts.  Every person on our tour was there for the middle part, but numbers were smaller for the pre- and post-extensions. I would recommend both, as Tortuguero and Manuel Antonio were real highlights.
> 
> Pre-extension:
> 1 night in San Jose
> 2 nights Tortuguero
> 
> The core tour:
> 1 night San Jose
> 2 nights in Arenal
> 2 nights in Monteverde
> (We were then split between two buses with some continuing on the post-extension and others going back for a final night in San Jose)
> 
> Post-extension:
> 3 nights in Manuel Antonio
> 1 San Jose
> 
> Note: any time spent in San Jose is really more about logistics than enjoyment as it isn’t a particularly appealing city.
> 
> Transport:
> The buses were comfortable and spacious.  During the middle part of the tour our group was almost at 40 (fully booked) but the bus they used seated 50.  This meant that no singles or odd-numbered groups were not forced to sit with strangers.  My family of 3 always had at least 2 pairs of seats. During the pre- and post-extension when the group was smaller we often spread out over 3 pairs of seats and took a window each.
> 
> Food:
> Ranged from good to great.  It wasn’t all buffets and for some dinners we went to lovely local restaurants where we got to choose from a 3 course menu.  Juice was included with most meals and for some meals a glass of beer, wine or soft drink was also included.
> Everyday, when boarding the bus, we were provided with 2 bottles of water to make sure we stayed hydrated.
> 
> Hotels:
> Ranged from okay to great.  I have noticed that for some tours, Gate 1 and Disney use the same hotel in Arenal.  Sadly that was not the case on our tour as our hotel in Arenal was probably our only trip disappointment (it was a pretty hotel in scenic location, but the service was poor).
> On the flip side, the one we stayed in in Manuel Antonio (Si Como No) was up there as one of the nicest places I’ve ever stayed.   The views of the ocean and jungle from our balcony were breathtaking.
> The one we stayed in in Tortuguero (Evergreen Lodge) was basic but so charming and fitting with the environment, that we also loved it.  We truely felt immersed in nature.
> 
> Guide:
> He was professional and knowledgeable.  When we had one hiccup on our trip (our bus broke down due to a mechanical issue the company couldn’t have predicted), both our driver and guide jumped to action with the haste and professionalism I would expect from a well-organised tour.  It meant some changes in plan to our day, but I didn’t see anybody annoyed or complaining.
> 
> Free/optional time:
> We had quite a bit of this on our tour which we loved.  While most people opted for the optional tours Gate 1 offered, we loved that we could cater the trip to our exact interests and book some specialised private wildlife tours with well-rated naturalists.
> I like the ease of being on a tour, but the flexibility and ability to escape the crowds that comes with booking things on your own.  We felt like this tour provided the best of both worlds.
> My only criticism would be that the optional tours were plugged a lot on our trip and there was a definite sense that Gate 1 like you to stick with what they’re offering.
> 
> Cost:
> Booking during some promotions, we paid approximately US$100 per person, per day, which I thought was a bargain.  Especially considering that over Xmas and New Year, some of our hotels alone would have cost close to what we paid had we booked independently.  For comparison sake, I tried pricing up the whole trip independently and literally could not book it for cheaper.
> Included was half of our day activities, all breakfasts and about half of our lunches and dinners, and all baggage handling.  Gratuities beyond luggage handling were not included.
> 
> Highlights:
> Seeing the animals.  We saw almost every animal on our bucket list.  I’m happy to highlight this further if anyone is interested, but won’t get started now as I could go on for ages.
> 
> Demographic:
> This was a holiday time tour, so the age demographic might be different from other tours, but I would say that age groups across the bus were pretty well spread out. There were people in there 20s and people in their 70s and the spread in between was fairly even.
> Kids were the minority with only 3 under-18s on the tour.  My son was the only child who did all 3 legs, but at no stage was this an issue.
> Most tour participants were from the USA or Canada.
> 
> Overall, I have only good things to say and would happily travel with Gate 1 again.
> Happy to answer questions if anyone has any.



OMG, the sloths!!!  All of the pictures are fantastic, though.


----------



## BluesTraveler

@lpm23 - per your question about what other travel companies we are looking at.   In 2018 DH and I did a Backroads hiking trip and it was outstanding.  18 people, 3 guides, luxurious hotels, amazing food.  We will definitely do another one next year.  Currently looking at Argentina for early 2020.  We would also love to do one of the Backroads family trips with our kids in the summer of 2020 - they've got so many options that we don't have it remotely narrowed down.  The other 2 companies we would consider for 2020 are National Geographic (family trips limited to 25) and Abercrombie & Kent (family trips limited to 24).  But Backroads for an adults-only early 2020 and for a family trip summer 2020 is the current front runner.

Tauck has a few small group departures for family trips but they are pretty limited.  Thomson doesn't take credit cards without a surcharge and I can't see passing up all those points.  Tauck also has a new Portugal river cruise in 2020 that I'd be interested in, and that's a Tauck Bridges trip so would be lots of kids.


----------



## Calfan

BluesTraveler said:


> @lpm23 - per your question about what other travel companies we are looking at.   In 2018 DH and I did a Backroads hiking trip and it was outstanding.  18 people, 3 guides, luxurious hotels, amazing food.  We will definitely do another one next year.  Currently looking at Argentina for early 2020.  We would also love to do one of the Backroads family trips with our kids in the summer of 2020 - they've got so many options that we don't have it remotely narrowed down.  The other 2 companies we would consider for 2020 are National Geographic (family trips limited to 25) and Abercrombie & Kent (family trips limited to 24).  But Backroads for an adults-only early 2020 and for a family trip summer 2020 is the current front runner.
> 
> Tauck has a few small group departures for family trips but they are pretty limited.  Thomson doesn't take credit cards without a surcharge and I can't see passing up all those points.  Tauck also has a new Portugal river cruise in 2020 that I'd be interested in, and that's a Tauck Bridges trip so would be lots of kids.



Just checked out the preliminary info/teaser on the Tauck Portugal river cruise.  That could tempt me...


----------



## BluesTraveler

Calfan said:


> Just checked out the preliminary info/teaser on the Tauck Portugal river cruise.  That could tempt me...


Yes - it's already selling really well even without the full itinerary out!  I just hate committing so far in advance, and that's a mistake I feel like I've made with ABD.  Have VOWED I will not book summer 2020 until after Thanksgiving of this year, so we really know what the options look like.  Hold me to it friends...


----------



## Calfan

BluesTraveler said:


> Yes - it's already selling really well even without the full itinerary out!  I just hate committing so far in advance, and that's a mistake I feel like I've made with ABD.  Have VOWED I will not book summer 2020 until after Thanksgiving of this year, so we really know what the options look like.  Hold me to it friends...



We wouldn't be able to consider it until 2021 or later, but not because I have a problem committing far in advance, lol. We are committed to Japan with Thomson Family Adventures for 2020 based on a deposit I put down in 2017 to lock in 2017 pricing.  I stewed a bit at the time (although the deposit has been fully refundable at any time) but am super glad now that I bit the bullet and forked over $5k in 2017.  Locking in the 2017 pricing is going to save us quite a bit compared to what we would pay now to book a 2020 trip.


----------



## lpm23

BluesTraveler said:


> @lpm23 - per your question about what other travel companies we are looking at.   In 2018 DH and I did a Backroads hiking trip and it was outstanding.  18 people, 3 guides, luxurious hotels, amazing food.  We will definitely do another one next year.  Currently looking at Argentina for early 2020.  We would also love to do one of the Backroads family trips with our kids in the summer of 2020 - they've got so many options that we don't have it remotely narrowed down.  The other 2 companies we would consider for 2020 are National Geographic (family trips limited to 25) and Abercrombie & Kent (family trips limited to 24).  But Backroads for an adults-only early 2020 and for a family trip summer 2020 is the current front runner.
> 
> Tauck has a few small group departures for family trips but they are pretty limited.  Thomson doesn't take credit cards without a surcharge and I can't see passing up all those points.  Tauck also has a new Portugal river cruise in 2020 that I'd be interested in, and that's a Tauck Bridges trip so would be lots of kids.


Thanks. I will have to check those out. How much hiking on backroads family? our daugter's are 7 and 9 and we typically travel with my dad. so not sure if that is too much for our group.


----------



## BluesTraveler

lpm23 said:


> Thanks. I will have to check those out. How much hiking on backroads family? our daugter's are 7 and 9 and we typically travel with my dad. so not sure if that is too much for our group.


Lots of variation, and they also have 'multiadventure' trips, which include some biking, kayaking, etc.  They have trips specifically for that age group, so I'm sure the hiking would be kid-appropriate.


----------



## laceltris3

.


----------



## WishUponAStarryNight

lpm23 said:


> Thanks. I will have to check those out. How much hiking on backroads family? our daugter's are 7 and 9 and we typically travel with my dad. so not sure if that is too much for our group.


We traveled with Austin Adventures this past summer (and will again in June) on one of their family trips.  There were two multi-generational families on the trip and AA was able to accommodate everyone's needs.  They provided alternate activities for the folks who didn't feel they were up to the longer hikes.  It sounds like they were quite pleased with the accommodations made for them.  Ages ranged from 7 to 70+.


----------



## SirDuff

BluesTraveler said:


> @lpm23 - per your question about what other travel companies we are looking at.   In 2018 DH and I did a Backroads hiking trip and it was outstanding.  18 people, 3 guides, luxurious hotels, amazing food.  We will definitely do another one next year.  *Currently looking at Argentina for early 2020. * We would also love to do one of the Backroads family trips with our kids in the summer of 2020 - they've got so many options that we don't have it remotely narrowed down.  The other 2 companies we would consider for 2020 are National Geographic (family trips limited to 25) and Abercrombie & Kent (family trips limited to 24).  But Backroads for an adults-only early 2020 and for a family trip summer 2020 is the current front runner.
> 
> Tauck has a few small group departures for family trips but they are pretty limited.  Thomson doesn't take credit cards without a surcharge and I can't see passing up all those points.  Tauck also has a new Portugal river cruise in 2020 that I'd be interested in, and that's a Tauck Bridges trip so would be lots of kids.



I did the Argentina biking trip (Patagonia) over New Years 2015/16 and it was great.  I also did Northern Thailand biking (over New Years 2012/13) and loved it too.


----------



## Ava

WanderlustNZ said:


> Some time ago, I mentioned on this forum that I was booked to do a Gate 1 tour of Costa Rica and there were a couple of people interested to hear about my experience.
> I’m not sure if that is still the case, but having now returned home (we did the trip over Xmas and New Year), I thought I’d provide a bit of a rundown and if anyone has questions, I’m happy to answer.
> 
> For a start, I know that Gate 1 is not often a tour company compared with Disney because it is in a much cheaper bracket.  I wanted to say that I was really impressed by the product we received for the price we paid.  We loved the tour and I’m not convinced that paying twice the price for a different tour would have given us twice the enjoyment, particularly since wildlife is not on anyone’s schedule.
> 
> Secondly, this is our experience of just this tour.  I can’t say whether all Gate 1 tours around the world run the same way.
> 
> Our tour was 12 nights and made up of 3 parts.  Every person on our tour was there for the middle part, but numbers were smaller for the pre- and post-extensions. I would recommend both, as Tortuguero and Manuel Antonio were real highlights.
> 
> Pre-extension:
> 1 night in San Jose
> 2 nights Tortuguero
> 
> The core tour:
> 1 night San Jose
> 2 nights in Arenal
> 2 nights in Monteverde
> (We were then split between two buses with some continuing on the post-extension and others going back for a final night in San Jose)
> 
> Post-extension:
> 3 nights in Manuel Antonio
> 1 San Jose
> 
> Note: any time spent in San Jose is really more about logistics than enjoyment as it isn’t a particularly appealing city.
> 
> Transport:
> The buses were comfortable and spacious.  During the middle part of the tour our group was almost at 40 (fully booked) but the bus they used seated 50.  This meant that no singles or odd-numbered groups were not forced to sit with strangers.  My family of 3 always had at least 2 pairs of seats. During the pre- and post-extension when the group was smaller we often spread out over 3 pairs of seats and took a window each.
> 
> Food:
> Ranged from good to great.  It wasn’t all buffets and for some dinners we went to lovely local restaurants where we got to choose from a 3 course menu.  Juice was included with most meals and for some meals a glass of beer, wine or soft drink was also included.
> Everyday, when boarding the bus, we were provided with 2 bottles of water to make sure we stayed hydrated.
> 
> Hotels:
> Ranged from okay to great.  I have noticed that for some tours, Gate 1 and Disney use the same hotel in Arenal.  Sadly that was not the case on our tour as our hotel in Arenal was probably our only trip disappointment (it was a pretty hotel in scenic location, but the service was poor).
> On the flip side, the one we stayed in in Manuel Antonio (Si Como No) was up there as one of the nicest places I’ve ever stayed.   The views of the ocean and jungle from our balcony were breathtaking.
> The one we stayed in in Tortuguero (Evergreen Lodge) was basic but so charming and fitting with the environment, that we also loved it.  We truely felt immersed in nature.
> 
> Guide:
> He was professional and knowledgeable.  When we had one hiccup on our trip (our bus broke down due to a mechanical issue the company couldn’t have predicted), both our driver and guide jumped to action with the haste and professionalism I would expect from a well-organised tour.  It meant some changes in plan to our day, but I didn’t see anybody annoyed or complaining.
> 
> Free/optional time:
> We had quite a bit of this on our tour which we loved.  While most people opted for the optional tours Gate 1 offered, we loved that we could cater the trip to our exact interests and book some specialised private wildlife tours with well-rated naturalists.
> I like the ease of being on a tour, but the flexibility and ability to escape the crowds that comes with booking things on your own.  We felt like this tour provided the best of both worlds.
> My only criticism would be that the optional tours were plugged a lot on our trip and there was a definite sense that Gate 1 like you to stick with what they’re offering.
> 
> Cost:
> Booking during some promotions, we paid approximately US$100 per person, per day, which I thought was a bargain.  Especially considering that over Xmas and New Year, some of our hotels alone would have cost close to what we paid had we booked independently.  For comparison sake, I tried pricing up the whole trip independently and literally could not book it for cheaper.
> Included was half of our day activities, all breakfasts and about half of our lunches and dinners, and all baggage handling.  Gratuities beyond luggage handling were not included.
> 
> Highlights:
> Seeing the animals.  We saw almost every animal on our bucket list.  I’m happy to highlight this further if anyone is interested, but won’t get started now as I could go on for ages.
> 
> Demographic:
> This was a holiday time tour, so the age demographic might be different from other tours, but I would say that age groups across the bus were pretty well spread out. There were people in there 20s and people in their 70s and the spread in between was fairly even.
> Kids were the minority with only 3 under-18s on the tour.  My son was the only child who did all 3 legs, but at no stage was this an issue.
> Most tour participants were from the USA or Canada.
> 
> Overall, I have only good things to say and would happily travel with Gate 1 again.
> Happy to answer questions if anyone has any.


Thank you for the review & photos! I’m one of the people who was asking about Gate 1. Glad to hear you had a good experience with them!


----------



## WanderlustNZ

Ava said:


> Thank you for the review & photos! I’m one of the people who was asking about Gate 1. Glad to hear you had a good experience with them!



You’re welcome 

Our whole vacation consisted of 3 main parts - a week in Orlando spilt between Universal and Disney, the Gate 1 Costa Rica tour, and 2 weeks on a Southern Caribbean cruise.  While the cruise was the highlight for my son, Costa Rica was the highlight for my husband and I.  I’m going through a small bout of post-vacation blues at present, and I keep looking at photos from CR wishing I was back there.  It really was very special.  

I think for us, the star of the trip was the itinerary.  I was looking at the ABD Costa Rica tour the other day and see that it’s about 5x more expensive per day than what we paid.  While people can spend their money how they want - what does strike me about the tour is the itinerary.  If your priority is some outdoor adventure tourism followed by a bit of rest at the beach, it would be fine. I think that if your priority was like ours (wildlife), then the ABD itinerary simply wouldn’t fit the bill.  It needs to swap either/both locations with the likes of Tortuguero or Manuel Antonio.  Even the cloud forest of Monteverde had more fascinating wildlife (IMO) than Arenal as it’s where we saw all the coatimundi (so cute) and a stunning Resplendent Quetzal.  

That’s just my 2 cents though as I realise that everyone’s reasons for travelling are different.

Some more pics incase anyone is interested (and because I’m reminiscing):

We were lucky witness 3 different Jesus Christ Lizards (including this beautiful Emerald Basilisk) actually run across the water.  
 
Blue jeans poison dart frog.  There were a lot of these gorgeous little creatures on the trees outside our cabin in Tortuguero. 
American crocodile.  This guy was huge. 3-4 metres long.  
The Respeldent Quetzal.  I wish I could have got a better pic, but with all the plant life in the foreground, it was really hard to focus on the bird.  Google has better pics that showcase the quetzals glorious tail.  
Coatimundi.  I love these animals so much.  There was a whole family (including babies) roaming around the coffee, sugar and cacao plantation we visited in Monteverde.   
Red-eye tree frog.  So beautiful.  
I loved that on this trip we were able to see 4 of the 6 species of Toucan present in Costa Rica.
Seeing fur de lance on a private night tour was a little bit scary as they’re ground dwelling snakes, but we loved seeing all the aborreal snakes during the trip such as the boa-constrictor and many different coloured eyelash pit vipers.  
This is a 2 toed sloth.  The last pic was a 3 toed.  
We saw 2 species of Macaw - the scarlet macaw and Great Green Macaw


----------



## nemofans

We stayed in Tortuguero on our Tauck Bridges tour and it was our favorite part of the trip.  It was so cool staying in cabins surrounded by rainforest and we saw so many animals.  Although we were tired each day due to being woken up by howler monkeys at 4:30 each morning, I still loved it.  One morning, I got up and recorded the early morning sounds on my phone so I can remember it later.


----------



## sayhello

WanderlustNZ said:


> I think for us, the star of the trip was the itinerary.  I was looking at the ABD Costa Rica tour the other day and see that it’s about 5x more expensive per day than what we paid.  While people can spend their money how they want - what does strike me about the tour is the itinerary.  If your priority is some outdoor adventure tourism followed by a bit of rest at the beach, it would be fine. I think that if your priority was like ours (wildlife), then the ABD itinerary simply wouldn’t fit the bill.  It needs to swap either/both locations with the likes of Tortuguero or Manuel Antonio.  Even the cloud forest of Monteverde had more fascinating wildlife (IMO) than Arenal as it’s where we saw all the coatimundi (so cute) and a stunning Resplendent Quetzal.
> 
> That’s just my 2 cents though as I realise that everyone’s reasons for travelling are different.


The Costa Rica ABD *used* to go to Tortuguero.  I think it may have gone to Manuel Antonio, also, at one point.  Over the years, those locations have been removed from the itinerary.

Sayhello


----------



## WanderlustNZ

sayhello said:


> The Costa Rica ABD *used* to go to Tortuguero.  I think it may have gone to Manuel Antonio, also, at one point.  Over the years, those locations have been removed from the itinerary.
> 
> Sayhello



It does seem a bit of a shame that it doesn’t go to either.  Manuel Antonio offers a great balance between wildlife and beach, so it we be a good place to pair with Arenal.

Regarding Tortuguero though, I have to wonder if part of the reason Disney doesn’t go there anymore is due to the increase in crime targeting the buses and boats traveling into the area. 
We were amongst the fortunate majority who have traveled into the area without hiccup and had an awesome time, but I do know that some tourists are beginning to second guess their decision to go there.


----------



## distravel

WonderlustNZ

Great Photos!!! Thanks for sharing. Such a great experience seeing these beautiful animals in their natural environment.


----------



## carpenta

We did Tauck Bridges a couple years ago and stayed in the jungle huts in Tortuguero also and was one of the best experiences we have had traveling. Between the rain sounds (occasional brief showers ) on the tin roofs and sounds of the wildlife it was amazing. Too bad the future ABD travelers won't get that experience.


----------



## KEK1

WanderlustNZ said:


> You’re welcome
> 
> Our whole vacation consisted of 3 main parts - a week in Orlando spilt between Universal and Disney, the Gate 1 Costa Rica tour, and 2 weeks on a Southern Caribbean cruise.  While the cruise was the highlight for my son, Costa Rica was the highlight for my husband and I.  I’m going through a small bout of post-vacation blues at present, and I keep looking at photos from CR wishing I was back there.  It really was very special.
> 
> I think for us, the star of the trip was the itinerary.  I was looking at the ABD Costa Rica tour the other day and see that it’s about 5x more expensive per day than what we paid.  While people can spend their money how they want - what does strike me about the tour is the itinerary.  If your priority is some outdoor adventure tourism followed by a bit of rest at the beach, it would be fine. I think that if your priority was like ours (wildlife), then the ABD itinerary simply wouldn’t fit the bill.  It needs to swap either/both locations with the likes of Tortuguero or Manuel Antonio.  Even the cloud forest of Monteverde had more fascinating wildlife (IMO) than Arenal as it’s where we saw all the coatimundi (so cute) and a stunning Resplendent Quetzal.
> 
> That’s just my 2 cents though as I realise that everyone’s reasons for travelling are different.
> 
> Some more pics incase anyone is interested (and because I’m reminiscing):
> 
> We were lucky witness 3 different Jesus Christ Lizards (including this beautiful Emerald Basilisk) actually run across the water.
> View attachment 378323
> Blue jeans poison dart frog.  There were a lot of these gorgeous little creatures on the trees outside our cabin in Tortuguero. View attachment 378324
> American crocodile.  This guy was huge. 3-4 metres long.  View attachment 378325
> The Respeldent Quetzal.  I wish I could have got a better pic, but with all the plant life in the foreground, it was really hard to focus on the bird.  Google has better pics that showcase the quetzals glorious tail.  View attachment 378326
> Coatimundi.  I love these animals so much.  There was a whole family (including babies) roaming around the coffee, sugar and cacao plantation we visited in Monteverde.   View attachment 378327
> Red-eye tree frog.  So beautiful.  View attachment 378328
> I loved that on this trip we were able to see 4 of the 6 species of Toucan present in Costa Rica.View attachment 378329
> Seeing fur de lance on a private night tour was a little bit scary as they’re ground dwelling snakes, but we loved seeing all the aborreal snakes during the trip such as the boa-constrictor and many different coloured eyelash pit vipers.  View attachment 378331
> This is a 2 toed sloth.  The last pic was a 3 toed.  View attachment 378332
> We saw 2 species of Macaw - the scarlet macaw and Great Green Macaw View attachment 378330


 
Oooh you are really tempting me to look at Costa Rica!


----------



## WanderlustNZ

nemofans said:


> We stayed in Tortuguero on our Tauck Bridges tour and it was our favorite part of the trip.  It was so cool staying in cabins surrounded by rainforest and we saw so many animals.  Although we were tired each day due to being woken up by howler monkeys at 4:30 each morning, I still loved it.  One morning, I got up and recorded the early morning sounds on my phone so I can remember it later.





carpenta said:


> We did Tauck Bridges a couple years ago and stayed in the jungle huts in Tortuguero also and was one of the best experiences we have had traveling. Between the rain sounds (occasional brief showers ) on the tin roofs and sounds of the wildlife it was amazing. Too bad the future ABD travelers won't get that experience.



Both of your posts are really making me reminisce. It really is such a special place.  The noise of the jungle is so loud in those little cabins (whether it be the rain at night, Howler monkeys and frogs in the early morning, or the birds during the day), and yet I wouldn’t have turned down the volume even if I could have. It’s such a magical immersive noise.  

I also loved swimming in the pool watching colourful butterflies and green Macaw flying overhead and capuchin playing in the trees.  Or standing on the beach watching baby turtles rush from their nest to the ocean.  

Take me back ...


----------



## WanderlustNZ

distravel said:


> WonderlustNZ
> 
> Great Photos!!! Thanks for sharing. Such a great experience seeing these beautiful animals in their natural environment.



Thank you  




KEK1 said:


> Oooh you are really tempting me to look at Costa Rica!



Yes, do!


----------



## nemofans

Those were the cabins!  We had a sloth in a nearby tree the whole time we stayed there.  My son is a huge sloth lover and he was thrilled to have one right there to watch every day.  We also had a basilisk lizard at the pool.  Then all the amazing animals we saw on the boat rides through the canals.  The coolest experience ever!


----------



## Ava

You all are making me want to book a trip to Costa Rica right now! I’ve never been anywhere like that and it sounds amazing. It also seems to be one of the more affordable destinations offered by a lot of group tour operators.


----------



## TXTransplant

Any suggestions for the Jasper/Banff/Lake Louise area?  I'm planning a trip on our own.  After two fantastic ABD trips, we did Hawaii two summers in a row on our own (using a lot of the suggestions given to me here, many pages back).  I sort of used the ABD "model" of booking with independent tour operators for fun excursions/activities, and we had some absolutely awesome experiences.  Both trips were just amazing, so now I'm trying my hand at planning my own international trip.

After looking at two of the Tauck options and the ABD option for the Canadian Rockies, I came to the conclusion that I can do a longer trip for at least the same cost (if not less).

I've got our plane tickets, a rental car, and rooms at the Fairmont Banff and Fairmont Lake Louise (we aren't staying at the Fairmont Jasper Park Lodge - I just couldn't justify the price, but I did find an adorable place called the Tekarra Lodge and snagged a cabin for about $300 Canadian/night).

We are doing a 10-night trip - the first night will be in Calgary (we arrive on a late flight), and then three nights each at Tekarra Lodge, the Fairmont Banff, and the Fairmont Lake Louise (in that order).

My travel dates were restricted by my son's schedule, so I put Lake Louise at the end of the itinerary to try and make sure we see the lake after it's melted (travel dates are May 30-June 9).

For anyone that's curious, I'm sitting at $534/day for two people (including airfare and rental car but excluding food and excursions, obviously).  And that's for 9 FULL days of sightseeing, 11 days total (days 1 and 10 are travel days).  

The Tauck trips (7-8 days) range from $1177-$1316 per day for two people, when I factor in what I paid for airfare (and days 1 and 7/8 are almost exclusively travel days with no/limited sightseeing).  

ABD (7 days) is $1876 per day for two people, also factoring in airfare (and days 1 and 7 are almost exclusively travel days with no/limited sightseeing).

I'm looking for suggestions for day trips/excursions (with tour company names).  We will have a rental car.  We enjoy hiking, sightseeing, kayaking, zip lining, and pretty much anything else.  The gondola rides are a must, as is time at the spa at the Fairmont Banff and afternoon tea at the Fairmont Lake Louise.  I've looked at the itineraries for the Tauck and ABD trips, and I will likely try to replicate those excursions, but it would be good to know what companies to book with (or any other tips from people who have experience).  I won't say that money is no object, but I am more than willing to pay for Tauck/ABD-quality excursions (especially considering where we are on budget).


----------



## WishUponAStarryNight

TXTransplant said:


> I'm looking for suggestions for day trips/excursions (with tour company names).  We will have a rental car.  We enjoy hiking, sightseeing, kayaking, zip lining, and pretty much anything else.  The gondola rides are a must, as is time at the spa at the Fairmont Banff and afternoon tea at the Fairmont Lake Louise.  I've looked at the itineraries for the Tauck and ABD trips, and I will likely try to replicate those excursions, but it would be good to know what companies to book with (or any other tips from people who have experience).  I won't say that money is no object, but I am more than willing to pay for Tauck/ABD-quality excursions (especially considering where we are on budget).



I can't help you with specifics, but Austin Adventures also has a trip to Banff/Jasper.  Their itineraries may give you some different ideas for excursions.  Good luck planning!  It's definitely a trip on our (very long) list.


----------



## Calfan

We just received a couple of options for dates for our 2020 Japan trip with Thomson Family Adventures. So exciting!  Thomson also put together a Hiroshima extension for us to add at the end of the trip. They are also working on options for Mt. Fuji for our Tokyo pre-days. We also plan to do Tokyo Disney on our pre-days.  Current plan is to use Hilton points for hotel nights at the Hilton Tokyo Bay.


----------



## Lulu27

Those of you who did Tauck Bridges Costa Rica - how many were in your group? What month did you go? Any other info you can share regarding the experience?


----------



## Cousin Orville

@TXTransplant I’d be interested in what you decide to do in Banff/Lake Louise.  We’re also planning a trip on our own albeit more of a long weekend in July.  We’re staying at the Fairmont Lake Louise.  We’ll probably look into some family hikes and just taking in the beauty.  Very excited about my first trip there.


----------



## BluesTraveler

Calfan said:


> We just received a couple of options for dates for our 2020 Japan trip with Thomson Family Adventures. So exciting!  Thomson also put together a Hiroshima extension for us to add at the end of the trip. They are also working on options for Mt. Fuji for our Tokyo pre-days. We also plan to do Tokyo Disney on our pre-days.  Current plan is to use Hilton points for hotel nights at the Hilton Tokyo Bay.



That's exciting.  Are you affected at all by the Olympics, or avoiding that time altogether?  So wish Thomson would take credit cards (without a surcharge).


----------



## laceltris3

.


----------



## TXTransplant

Cousin Orville said:


> @TXTransplant I’d be interested in what you decide to do in Banff/Lake Louise.  We’re also planning a trip on our own albeit more of a long weekend in July.  We’re staying at the Fairmont Lake Louise.  We’ll probably look into some family hikes and just taking in the beauty.  Very excited about my first trip there.



I will be happy to share!  I actually found you on Instagram and am following you.  If you want to follow back, I'll post about our trip there.  Otherwise, as I book and after we travel, I'll try to remember to come back here and post our intinerary.


----------



## Calfan

BluesTraveler said:


> That's exciting.  Are you affected at all by the Olympics, or avoiding that time altogether?  So wish Thomson would take credit cards (without a surcharge).



The two sets of dates Thomson offered us are both before the Olympics start, so pretty much avoiding it, especially since we'll be doing Tokyo at the beginning of the trip.  Looks like the Olympics start July 24, and the latest we would be in Tokyo is about July 6.  Plus we're leaning toward June dates.  When we first planned this trip, I had thoughts about dovetailing it with the Olympics, but now I am in avoidance mode, lol.  Totally agree about Thomson and ccs.  In this case, I'll probably pay the surcharge since the 2017 rates we are paying for this trip are well below ABD and likely other 2020 offerings (even with a cc surcharge).


----------



## Cousin Orville

TXTransplant said:


> I will be happy to share!  I actually found you on Instagram and am following you.  If you want to follow back, I'll post about our trip there.  Otherwise, as I book and after we travel, I'll try to remember to come back here and post our intinerary.



Sure, what's your instagram name or feel free to send me a PM?  I'd love to hear what you're planning.  Other then Air/Room/Car I haven't prepared anything.  We'll be at Lake Louise for 4 days.  It's not a lot of time, but hopefully enough to see some of the beauty of the Canadian Rockies.


----------



## TXTransplant

Cousin Orville said:


> Sure, what's your instagram name or feel free to send me a PM?  I'd love to hear what you're planning.  Other then Air/Room/Car I haven't prepared anything.  We'll be at Lake Louise for 4 days.  It's not a lot of time, but hopefully enough to see some of the beauty of the Canadian Rockies.



sent you a PM


----------



## acndis

We did some days in Banff after our Alaska ABD a few years ago.  We loved Banff and can't wait to return.  It's really easy to do on your own.  I did a quick summary of what we did in my trip report here:

https://www.disboards.com/threads/8...-of-banff-and-seattle-complete.3619095/page-2

It's post #35 but if you have questions, I am happy to answer.


----------



## disneyphx

We did Banff on our own a few years ago - DD was pretty small, so not very exciting activities. Columbia Icefield was very fun!


----------



## disneyphx

Lulu27 said:


> Those of you who did Tauck Bridges Costa Rica - how many were in your group? What month did you go? Any other info you can share regarding the experience?



We did TB over New Year a couple of years ago. I think there were about 40 people. One 3 generational group of 9, several sets of grandparents with one grandchild.
We liked the trip a lot - I think the ziplining was a highlight for us, even though it was in absolutely pouring rain. We also liked the chocolate place.
Since we did it, they have reversed the order of the tour and changed all the hotels.


----------



## snelvis

WishUponAStarryNight said:


> I will, for sure.  We absolutely loved our Yellowstone trip, so I have very high expectations for the next trip.



sorry to tag on so late but my family are looking at a guided trip to Yellowstone and looked at ABD will be myself age 47, my husband age 48, daughter age 12 and on age 11. What company did you use? We are active, can hike, but not rock climbers!! thanks


----------



## quinnc19

I think you should come with me age 49 and my daughter who will be 12 on the Backroads camping trip June 25 to June 29! It has 2 days in Yellowstone, 2 days in Grand Teton and we are spending time before and after in Jackson and then driving on our own to Glacier National Park. It's a mixture of hiking and biking but it's very flexible in terms of the activity level for each day. They have a special rock climbing just for the kids.



snelvis said:


> sorry to tag on so late but my family are looking at a guided trip to Yellowstone and looked at ABD will be myself age 47, my husband age 48, daughter age 12 and on age 11. What company did you use? We are active, can hike, but not rock climbers!! thanks


----------



## snelvis

quinnc19 said:


> I think you should come with me age 49 and my daughter who will be 12 on the Backroads camping trip June 25 to June 29! It has 2 days in Yellowstone, 2 days in Grand Teton and we are spending time before and after in Jackson and then driving on our own to Glacier National Park. It's a mixture of hiking and biking but it's very flexible in terms of the activity level for each day. They have a special rock climbing just for the kids.




We are planning for next summer. Are you going this year? Who did you book the tour with? 
Thanks!


----------



## quinnc19

Yes, this year. We are gonna go on the Rhone river cruise next year. I booked directly with Backroads. I know they also have a non-camping version of the trip, but my daughter really wanted to do the camping. Good luck!


----------



## Calfan

snelvis said:


> We are planning for next summer. Are you going this year? Who did you book the tour with?
> Thanks!



You might also look at Austin Adventures. We did a Winter Yellowstone trip with them last year, and it was fantastic. Our kids were 13 and 15 at the time.


----------



## WishUponAStarryNight

snelvis said:


> sorry to tag on so late but my family are looking at a guided trip to Yellowstone and looked at ABD will be myself age 47, my husband age 48, daughter age 12 and on age 11. What company did you use? We are active, can hike, but not rock climbers!! thanks


We went with Austin Adventures. A mix of hiking, rafting, zip lining, horseback riding. Nothing too taxing for kids as young as 7. It was fantastic- highly recommend!


----------



## TXTransplant

snelvis said:


> sorry to tag on so late but my family are looking at a guided trip to Yellowstone and looked at ABD will be myself age 47, my husband age 48, daughter age 12 and on age 11. What company did you use? We are active, can hike, but not rock climbers!! thanks



Wildland Trekking also does guided Yellowstone trips...both camping and lodge-based.  We had an excellent experience with them on a Havasu Falls hiking trip this past Thanksgiving, and I wouldn't hesitate to book with them again.  I've looked at the lodge-based tours, and I think they are very affordable (5 days for ~$2000 per person).


----------



## BluesTraveler

Has anyone heard of or traveled with a company called Active Adventures?  In researching New Zealand, I came across this:

https://activeadventures.com/new-zealand/trips/kea-family-new-zealand-family-adventure/


----------



## nemofans

We did TB Costa Rica.  There were 36 of us and we loved the trip!  We went July 2017.  Wide range of ages and fantastic activities and surprises.  Tortuguero was our favorite part.
The chocolate place was excellent too.


----------



## AinsleyLM

Has anyone here gone on river cruises with Avalon or Viking? I’m looking into possibly going with them on a Rhine river cruise next spring.


----------



## Raya

Any suggestions or recommendations for Egypt? Right now it's looking A&K or wait until maybe ABD does one.... ?


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Raya said:


> Any suggestions or recommendations for Egypt? Right now it's looking A&K or wait until maybe ABD does one.... ?



I wouldn't travel with A&K again.  They are hard-liners about sticking to their contract.  So if activities were to be cancelled due to an unforeseen situation, they would offer something like a movie in a conference room and call that a "suitable" replacement.  Not happy?  Refer to their contract that says they may have to cancel some activities due to "unforeseen events".  I definitely won't travel with them again.  

I heard Thomson is perhaps going to Egypt.  I'd look into that.


----------



## Ava

I know there are a couple people on this thread who have traveled with Nat Geo Journeys/G Adventures so thought this may be of interest. I got an email a couple weeks ago from G Adventures that they are launching family trips under the Nat Geo Journeys brand. They’re revealing one destination per week until May 4th:

https://www.gadventures.com/travel-styles/national-geographic-journeys/family/

It’s not clear if these are replacing the family trips currently offered under G Adventures, but it seems like that may be the case since the first two destinations - Peru and Costa Rica - are ones currently offered as family trips by G Adventures.

I personally am really excited about this. I’ve been hoping that G Adventures would expand their offering of family trips since they’ve had the same 6 trips listed for at least a few years now. Maybe this rebranding/relaunch of their family itineraries under Nat Geo Journeys is why. There are 12 weeks of “reveals” for the NGJ family destinations so even if they keep the current 6 destinations they’ll be adding at least 6 new ones.


----------



## Raya

AinsleyLM said:


> Has anyone here gone on river cruises with Avalon or Viking? I’m looking into possibly going with them on a Rhine river cruise next spring.



Not them, but I will completely recommend Ama waterways. They're the ship ABD uses, and the trips cost much less without ABD, but offer just as many shore excursions. I'm planning to go on a non-ABD trip with them soon. The staff, food, and quarters were amazing. https://www.amawaterways.com/


----------



## nordkin

AinsleyLM said:


> Has anyone here gone on river cruises with Avalon or Viking? I’m looking into possibly going with them on a Rhine river cruise next spring.


We have been on Avalon and considered them top notch.  The rooms are good size, the cruise directors have been wonderful, and the food excellent.


----------



## OhanaCuz

Raya said:


> Not them, but I will completely recommend Ama waterways. They're the ship ABD uses, and the trips cost much less without ABD, but offer just as many shore excursions. I'm planning to go on a non-ABD trip with them soon. The staff, food, and quarters were amazing. https://www.amawaterways.com/



Yep.  I've done ABD-AMA and AMA-only.  Both were wonderful (but very different) trips.  I enjoyed both immensely.


----------



## Raya

OhanaCuz said:


> Yep.  I've done ABD-AMA and AMA-only.  Both were wonderful (but very different) trips.  I enjoyed both immensely.



Can you talk a bit about the differences? One of my problems with ABD-AMA was how early everything started. You would make my heart soar if you said breakfast could go until 9, instead of 7:30am.


----------



## OhanaCuz

Raya said:


> Can you talk a bit about the differences? One of my problems with ABD-AMA was how early everything started. You would make my heart soar if you said breakfast could go until 9, instead of 7:30am.



Here's the post I wrote about the differences. Breakfast was 7:30 to 9:30 **BUT** we had much fewer excursions.

https://www.disboards.com/threads/other-options.3474662/page-56#post-59257850


----------



## Magical2017

Has anyone ever done one of the Rick Steves Family tours?


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

I am re-visiting our summer, 2020 trip for dd's high school graduation.  Singita travel ruined our itinerary after having it planned since last August.  They bumped us out of our final lodge (Boulders) since they had a group that wanted to take the entire lodge during the time we were supposed to be there.  They expected us to happily move to their sister property, Ebony, but for the price they charge, I don't want to stay there again.  I found the rooms a bit dark and there is a glass shower _in _the room, which is not great when traveling with your 18 year old daughter.

I am looking at some of the companies recommended here; of particular interest is Classic Journeys as I like their product (from what they have online).  Just can't decide if I'm willing to give up Africa for another destination.  Thinking *maybe* New Zealand / Sidney, but it's ultimately dd's call.  

Back to the drawing board  .  Not looking forward to going through this process again.  I'm so very disappointed with Singita and how they handled the situation.


----------



## sayhello

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I am re-visiting our summer, 2020 trip for dd's high school graduation.  Singita travel ruined our itinerary after having it planned since last August.  They bumped us out of our final lodge (Boulders) since they had a group that wanted to take the entire lodge during the time we were supposed to be there.  They expected us to happily move to their sister property, Ebony, but for the price they charge, I don't want to stay there again.  I found the rooms a bit dark and there is a glass shower _in _the room, which is not great when traveling with your 18 year old daughter.
> 
> I am looking at some of the companies recommended here; of particular interest is Classic Journeys as I like their product (from what they have online).  Just can't decide if I'm willing to give up Africa for another destination.  Thinking *maybe* New Zealand / Sidney, but it's ultimately dd's call.
> 
> Back to the drawing board  .  Not looking forward to going through this process again.  I'm so very disappointed with Singita and how they handled the situation.


Oh, that's a shame!  It sounded like such a cool trip!  I'm assuming they gave you a full refund?  I'm sure whatever you pick will be amazing!  At least it wasn't something planned for 2019!!

Sayhello


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

sayhello said:


> Oh, that's a shame!  It sounded like such a cool trip!  I'm assuming they gave you a full refund?  I'm sure whatever you pick will be amazing!  At least it wasn't something planned for 2019!!
> 
> Sayhello



They are going to give a full refund.  I put so much thought into the itinerary and it was good to have it all planned out, so it really stinks that they pulled this on me.  Now it's back to the beginning.

Dd isn't any help in planning.  I have asked her where she wants to go and so far just a few shrugs. I have suggested the Arctic (polar bears!), Europe, New Zealand / Sydney and nothing seems to interest her a great deal.  Even asked if she still wants to go gorilla trekking in Rwanda then go to Tanzania and hopefully catch some of the migration, but can't get any type of response.  Thankfully we do have a lot of time to plan!


----------



## Ava

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> They are going to give a full refund.  I put so much thought into the itinerary and it was good to have it all planned out, so it really stinks that they pulled this on me.  Now it's back to the beginning.
> 
> Dd isn't any help in planning.  I have asked her where she wants to go and so far just a few shrugs. I have suggested the Arctic (polar bears!), Europe, New Zealand / Sydney and nothing seems to interest her a great deal.  Even asked if she still wants to go gorilla trekking in Rwanda then go to Tanzania and hopefully catch some of the migration, but can't get any type of response.  Thankfully we do have a lot of time to plan!


Do you want to adopt me? I’m a *little* older than 18 but I would happily go on any of those trips!


----------



## kristilew

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> They are going to give a full refund.  I put so much thought into the itinerary and it was good to have it all planned out, so it really stinks that they pulled this on me.  Now it's back to the beginning.
> 
> Dd isn't any help in planning.  I have asked her where she wants to go and so far just a few shrugs. I have suggested the Arctic (polar bears!), Europe, New Zealand / Sydney and nothing seems to interest her a great deal.  Even asked if she still wants to go gorilla trekking in Rwanda then go to Tanzania and hopefully catch some of the migration, but can't get any type of response.  Thankfully we do have a lot of time to plan!


 

Maybe the cancellation is a blessing in disguise. If she’s having that hard a time mustering interest, maybe the money is better spent on a trip for Mom and Dad.


----------



## Ava

kristilew said:


> Maybe the cancellation is a blessing in disguise. If she’s having that hard a time mustering interest, maybe the money is better spent on a trip for Mom and Dad.


That’s true. Summer 2020 probably also feels like a really long time from now to a teenager. Hopefully she’ll have more of an opinion as it gets closer. That might mean doing a simpler trip but at least it will be something she’s chosen and is interested in.


----------



## BluesTraveler

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> They are going to give a full refund.  I put so much thought into the itinerary and it was good to have it all planned out, so it really stinks that they pulled this on me.  Now it's back to the beginning.
> 
> Dd isn't any help in planning.  I have asked her where she wants to go and so far just a few shrugs. I have suggested the Arctic (polar bears!), Europe, New Zealand / Sydney and nothing seems to interest her a great deal.  Even asked if she still wants to go gorilla trekking in Rwanda then go to Tanzania and hopefully catch some of the migration, but can't get any type of response.  Thankfully we do have a lot of time to plan!



Sounds like a classic teenager.    Maybe just take a year off and do a solo classic journeys or backroads trip yourself?


----------



## Ava

Ava said:


> I know there are a couple people on this thread who have traveled with Nat Geo Journeys/G Adventures so thought this may be of interest. I got an email a couple weeks ago from G Adventures that they are launching family trips under the Nat Geo Journeys brand. They’re revealing one destination per week until May 4th:
> 
> https://www.gadventures.com/travel-styles/national-geographic-journeys/family/
> 
> It’s not clear if these are replacing the family trips currently offered under G Adventures, but it seems like that may be the case since the first two destinations - Peru and Costa Rica - are ones currently offered as family trips by G Adventures.
> 
> I personally am really excited about this. I’ve been hoping that G Adventures would expand their offering of family trips since they’ve had the same 6 trips listed for at least a few years now. Maybe this rebranding/relaunch of their family itineraries under Nat Geo Journeys is why. There are 12 weeks of “reveals” for the NGJ family destinations so even if they keep the current 6 destinations they’ll be adding at least 6 new ones.


Quoting myself for reference here. I ended up messaging G Adventures on Facebook to ask if the Nat Geo Family Journeys will be replacing the current G Adventures family trips. To my surprise, they said no! Both lines of tours will be available. Now I’m really curious to see the difference in itineraries (and price points) between Nat Geo Journeys and G Adventures for destinations where they both operate family tours.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Ava said:


> Quoting myself for reference here. I ended up messaging G Adventures on Facebook to ask if the Nat Geo Family Journeys will be replacing the current G Adventures family trips. To my surprise, they said no! Both lines of tours will be available. Now I’m really curious to see the difference in itineraries (and price points) between Nat Geo Journeys and G Adventures for destinations where they both operate family tours.



Do you know when they will release the itineraries?  I looked at the site and so far just see the destinations. Now I'm very curious to see what they roll out.

As an aside, my dd used to go to school in Toronto with the owner's (of G Adventures) children (his oldest was a year younger than dd).  Very, very nice humble guy (his wife is lovely as well).  He organized a few private trips for select parents at the school -- sadly I wasn't able to go on either trip (he scheduled them over March break 2 years in a row), but 2 of my good friends did and they loved every minute.  Though I'm not sure I would've enjoyed the overnight stay at a local family's home.  I understand that Craig Keilburger's (owner of Me to We) children also go to the same school now as well (my friend's dd went on a trip with Me to We last year {through the school} to the Amazon).  

Anyways looking forward to seeing these new itineraries and hoping they are a bit more luxurious than the current offerings!


----------



## Ava

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> Do you know when they will release the itineraries?  I looked at the site and so far just see the destinations. Now I'm very curious to see what they roll out.
> 
> As an aside, my dd used to go to school in Toronto with the owner's (of G Adventures) children (his oldest was a year younger than dd).  Very, very nice humble guy (his wife is lovely as well).  He organized a few private trips for select parents at the school -- sadly I wasn't able to go on either trip (he scheduled them over March break 2 years in a row), but 2 of my good friends did and they loved every minute.  Though I'm not sure I would've enjoyed the overnight stay at a local family's home.  I understand that Craig Keilburger's (owner of Me to We) children also go to the same school now as well (my friend's dd went on a trip with Me to We last year {through the school} to the Amazon).
> 
> Anyways looking forward to seeing these new itineraries and hoping they are a bit more luxurious than the current offerings!


No, it doesn’t say, although my guess is in May after they’ve revealed all the destinations. I’m still surprised they’re going to continue to run the G Adventures family trips after launching these, especially since both of the destinations they’ve revealed so far are already covered by G. I guess we’ll see in a couple months!


----------



## BluesTraveler

Ava said:


> Quoting myself for reference here. I ended up messaging G Adventures on Facebook to ask if the Nat Geo Family Journeys will be replacing the current G Adventures family trips. To my surprise, they said no! Both lines of tours will be available. Now I’m really curious to see the difference in itineraries (and price points) between Nat Geo Journeys and G Adventures for destinations where they both operate family tours.


That's interesting.  Thanks for sharing.


----------



## BluesTraveler

Ava said:


> No, it doesn’t say, although my guess is in May after they’ve revealed all the destinations. I’m still surprised they’re going to continue to run the G Adventures family trips after launching these, especially since both of the destinations they’ve revealed so far are already covered by G. I guess we’ll see in a couple months!


For some Backroads itineraries/destinations, there are 2 trips, one called "casual" and one "premier," and the only difference I can see is the level of hotels (maybe restaurants also?).  Perhaps this is intended to be similar - similar itineraries but 2 different levels of hotels.


----------



## laceltris3

.


----------



## carpenta

LOVE the "Gift of time" for we are traveling to Croatia this summer ( we stay in Venice "free") with them as well as Swiss trip in 2020. Check out the business class specials they run every now and then for air travel. Have a great trip


----------



## nemofans

We are using "The Gift Of Time" with TB for our pre night in Rome which is 2 rooms for the 4 of us.  It saved us $1000!  Such a great offer for repeat costumers!


----------



## carpenta

We stayed in the hotel in Rome with TB and it was very near the U.S. Embassy. If this is the same hotel you will stay then there is a wonderful park a block behind the hotel which is spectacular to walk around the gardens and has a small zoo. Great view of the Vatican from an overlook in that park. We walked from the hotel to the "Wedding Cake" as well as many spots in that area. You'll love this hotel if it is the same.


----------



## sayhello

laceltris3 said:


> Can I tell you how much I have loved booking my 2020 Siene river cruise with TB?
> 
> So, a few months back, maybe November or December, they put out the new Portugal River cruise, and I booked it before realizing that the dates don't quite work for us. So I switched my deposit to the Siene in June 2020. We were able to book a suite for me and the kids and a separate room (no solo supplement) for my husband. He gets up insanely early to work out and now he can do that without disturbing everyone else, also his room is super close to the gym.  I was able to call whenever it was convenient and pick our rooms. They just priced the trip yesterday and it is perfect! The suites we got are sold out already, but it was so refreshing to not be stressed about when bookings open. We have 2 weeks to cancel for a full refund if we didn't like the pricing.
> 
> Also it ends up being cheaper for us to do it this way! We are running more than 10% less than the price for for all of us as children in the lowest category on ABD with the early booking discount for the comparable dates, and I don't even know how we could do it on ABD with more kids than adults with no connecting rooms or categories that have 3. For comparable room categories on ABD, it would be about 35% more than we are paying with TB.
> 
> I booked ABD for this summer because of the connecting 2/3 rooms, and I am sure it will be amazing, but now I am kicking myself for not saving so much more money with TB. They don't have the pricing for the pre and post nights yet, but I am assuming they will renew the Gift of Time, as they always have in the past, that should save us another $1K for the pre-night in Paris.


Sounds nice!  What River Cruiseline does Tauck Bridges use?

Sayhello


----------



## laceltris3

.


----------



## Bobo912

sayhello said:


> Sounds nice!  What River Cruiseline does Tauck Bridges use?
> 
> Sayhello


 
The river boats that Tauck uses are owned and operated by a Swiss company called Scylla.  The crew members are Scylla employees and the Cruise Director and guides are Tauck employees.  I don't believe an individual can book a cruise through Scylla.  I think they just provide the boats to tour companies.  But I believe the boats that Tauck uses are exclusively used by Tauck.


----------



## sayhello

Bobo912 said:


> The river boats that Tauck uses are owned and operated by a Swiss company called Scylla.  The crew members are Scylla employees and the Cruise Director and guides are Tauck employees.  I don't believe an individual can book a cruise through Scylla.  I think they just provide the boats to tour companies.  But I believe the boats that Tauck uses are exclusively used by Tauck.


That sounds really nice.  ABD's ships are definitely not for the exclusive use of ABD.  The ones for the Danube & Rhine were designed with ABD in mind, but AmaWaterways uses them for other cruises when the ABD's don't run.  The ships for the Seine & Rhone are older AmaWaterways ships that ABD is just using for their cruises.



laceltris3 said:


> They own their own ships and have been running the river cruises since 2006, I believe. I think many of them are a little smaller than some of the standard lines. The ship we sail on the Siene has a maximum of 98 guests. Some of them, like the ship in Portugal, only have 84. I think the largest of their boats fit 130 max.


That *is* smaller than the ones ABD uses.  The ones for the Danube & Rhine hold 140.  I'm not sure about the ones for the Seine and the Rhone, but they appear to be similar.

Sayhello


----------



## nemofans

carpenta said:


> We stayed in the hotel in Rome with TB and it was very near the U.S. Embassy. If this is the same hotel you will stay then there is a wonderful park a block behind the hotel which is spectacular to walk around the gardens and has a small zoo. Great view of the Vatican from an overlook in that park. We walked from the hotel to the "Wedding Cake" as well as many spots in that area. You'll love this hotel if it is the same.


Yes it's the same hotel.  That's the plan for our arrival day is to walk around the Borghese Park to do some sightseeing.  I would love any other suggestions or recommendations you have!


----------



## Dis_Yoda

nemofans said:


> Yes it's the same hotel.  That's the plan for our arrival day is to walk around the Borghese Park to do some sightseeing.  I would love any other suggestions or recommendations you have!



If you enjoy the Macabe, it is very near the Bone Church where a dedicated monk made displays out of old skeletons.  

If you want an excellent Michelin Star Meal, we went to Magnolia which is in walking distance and it was wonderful!


----------



## carpenta

nemofans said:


> Yes it's the same hotel.  That's the plan for our arrival day is to walk around the Borghese Park to do some sightseeing.  I would love any other suggestions or recommendations you have!



 The "Bone Church" is pretty close as well as the church designed by Michelangelo. The Spanish Steps are out the front door and go down the street to the left and are right at the top of the steps. Go down and in a good walk you get to the Trevi Fountain. The hotel is a perfect jump off point for a concise overview of Rome outside the "biggies" of the Vatican and the Colosseum. In the bar they give you the best local olives to go with your drink. Best olives ever eaten. Pack some good walking shoes for it is well worth the expedition. The front desk is a wealth of knowledge as well as the "Eyewitness Travel" book on Rome. Our TB trip was my daughter's favorite (as well as ours) and found the hotels we stayed the best situated in each city.


----------



## nemofans

Thanks both of you for your suggestions!  I can't wait!


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Since Singita travel dashed our plans of the Rwanda / Tanzania / S. Africa trip next June, dd has made a preliminary decision on where she'd like to go for her grad trip!

I gave her the Nat Geo brochure today for ideas and she decided she'd like to do an Arctic (hopefully polar bear -- nothing is guaranteed) expedition!  I am going to book the May 29th 17 day trip on the Endurance this week!  It travels up the coast of Norway's startling landscapes (starting in Bergen -- a lot of companies fly from Oslo to Svalsbard and back), then heads past the Arctic circle to Bear Island and on to Svalsbard; from there you fly back to Norway.  There is an add-on to Iceland that I may consider. 

I tried to get her to consider the 10 day trip on the Explorer (which starts June 2nd), but for some reason she wanted more time on the ship.  I like that the June 2nd trip had a pre-trip extension that went into the interior of Norway that sounded amazing.  Tough decision for sure. ** this cruise is not offered is 2020.  Oops!

**I called to book the trip and cabin category we want (lowest with a balcony -- category 3) is already sold out.  One category below (which doesn't have a balcony) is available as is the one above.  However the price differential between category 3 and 4 is steep. I can't bring myself to book it yet because I'm in sticker shock.  Hope to overcome this early next week so I can book before category 4 sells out.


----------



## Anna chen

Hope you will have a good trip


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

It's official!  We are booked on the May 29, 2020 Nat Geo Arctic cruise on their brand new ship!  Super excited for this trip!


----------



## Cousin Orville

Just returned from Jordan, Israel and Istanbul.  We spent about 8 days in Jordan staying at Amman, Petra, Wadi Rum (in a desert camp), and at the Dead Sea.  We arranged for a private guide to drive us everywhere and arrange the hotels and experiences for us.  Worked out well.

Then we crossed over to Israel where we joined our church group to tour up by the Sea of Galilee and the Golan Heights.  Then down into the West Bank, Jericho and the Dead Sea Again.  And finally to Jerusalem and Bethlehem.

On our way back we stopped for a nigh in Istanbul.  Basically had a full day and the next morning before flying out.  We again arranged for a private guide to take us around the city.

It was a spectacular trip.  Jordan was particularly easy and not expensive (by ABD standards) to arrange with a guide for a week.  I understand ABD’s reluctance to doing a trip there (they were considering it several years ago), but it really is primed for a great itinerary.  It was a lot of fun.


----------



## AinsleyLM

Raya said:


> Not them, but I will completely recommend Ama waterways. They're the ship ABD uses, and the trips cost much less without ABD, but offer just as many shore excursions. I'm planning to go on a non-ABD trip with them soon. The staff, food, and quarters were amazing. https://www.amawaterways.com/



Thank you! I’m looking into that now! Trying to decide between a river cruise or Scotland...decisions, decisions, lol


----------



## AinsleyLM

nordkin said:


> We have been on Avalon and considered them top notch.  The rooms are good size, the cruise directors have been wonderful, and the food excellent.



Thank you! It looks great!


----------



## AinsleyLM

OhanaCuz said:


> Yep.  I've done ABD-AMA and AMA-only.  Both were wonderful (but very different) trips.  I enjoyed both immensely.




Thank you! I’m looking into that now! Trying to decide between a tulip time river cruise or Scotland...decisions, decisions, lol


----------



## OhanaCuz

AinsleyLM said:


> Thank you! I’m looking into that now! Trying to decide between a tulip time river cruise or Scotland...decisions, decisions, lol



Oof.  That's a tough decision.


----------



## Woodview

Here  is an  Option          for  River Cruise co.   operating in Europe

        Rivera Travel                 www.riveratravel.com

  All you need to add is your   Air flights  .


----------



## aggiedog

We signed up for an Off the Beaten Path custom trip this summer to Yellowstone and Glacier.  No full time guide, and we rent a car and drive ourselves, but they make all the arrangements for lodging and activities, hire local guides for the areas, and send a spiral bound book of maps, scenic stops, hikes, restaurant suggestions, etc.  There are 2 nights of glamping included which my parents aren't over the moon about but which I think will add to the trip.


----------



## Lulu27

aggiedog said:


> We signed up for an Off the Beaten Path custom trip this summer to Yellowstone and Glacier.  No full time guide, and we rent a car and drive ourselves, but they make all the arrangements for lodging and activities, hire local guides for the areas, and send a spiral bound book of maps, scenic stops, hikes, restaurant suggestions, etc.  There are 2 nights of glamping included which my parents aren't over the moon about but which I think will add to the trip.



I would love to know more about this, Aggiedog! Do you mind if I PM you?


----------



## aggiedog

Lulu27 said:


> I would love to know more about this, Aggiedog! Do you mind if I PM you?


Any time!


----------



## EllinK

Aggiedog,
I am also interested in learning more about your trip. I will PM you also if you don't mind.


----------



## aggiedog

EllinK said:


> Aggiedog,
> I am also interested in learning more about your trip. I will PM you also if you don't mind.



No problem


----------



## KEK1

aggiedog said:


> No problem


Me 3 (4).. any chance you could do a short write up? 
We are from Australia,  have only done Yosemite NP so far (but loooooooved it), and want to go back to see others, not sure about group travel.


----------



## aggiedog

Absolutely!   We don't go until July, though.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

I wanted to add a small footnote to our A&K Family Antarctica cruise.  

When I was back home last week, there was an envelope from A&K with 2 very, very nice glossy (small) books (8.5 x 11), which detailed every day we were in Antarctica, along with pictures.  I must say I was highly impressed with this.  Not enough to make me want to travel with them again, but certainly a nice memento from our journey.


----------



## DCPhotoGal

Cousin Orville said:


> Just returned from Jordan, Israel and Istanbul.  We spent about 8 days in Jordan staying at Amman, Petra, Wadi Rum (in a desert camp), and at the Dead Sea.  We arranged for a private guide to drive us everywhere and arrange the hotels and experiences for us.  Worked out well.
> 
> Then we crossed over to Israel where we joined our church group to tour up by the Sea of Galilee and the Golan Heights.  Then down into the West Bank, Jericho and the Dead Sea Again.  And finally to Jerusalem and Bethlehem.
> 
> On our way back we stopped for a nigh in Istanbul.  Basically had a full day and the next morning before flying out.  We again arranged for a private guide to take us around the city.
> 
> It was a spectacular trip.  Jordan was particularly easy and not expensive (by ABD standards) to arrange with a guide for a week.  I understand ABD’s reluctance to doing a trip there (they were considering it several years ago), but it really is primed for a great itinerary.  It was a lot of fun.



I would love to hear more about this trip if you wouldn't mind sharing contact info on how you arranged your guides.


----------



## Cousin Orville

DCPhotoGal said:


> I would love to hear more about this trip if you wouldn't mind sharing contact info on how you arranged your guides.



We arranged our tour of Jordan through Petra Nights Tours.  They arranged a private driver, guides, hotels, etc throughout Jordan.  We spent a couple of nights in Amman, Petra, Wadi Rum and the Dead Sea.  Awesome trip.  Highly recommended. 

Israel was a group tour through our church.  Amazing country.  I’d love to return some day.

Istanbul was a quick ~24 hrs.  We organized a private guide through “My Local Guide” Istanbul.

If you have any questions, let me know.


----------



## IzzyBella

I read this entire thread and learned so much information. Thanks to everyone who contributed! 

We’re looking for something a little bit different for 2020 and it looks like the Azores will be it for us. We’re booking now with Thomson Family Adventures. We love ABD and I’m sure we’ll be back for the right trip!


----------



## Donalyn

IzzyBella - the Azores are high on my list too.  I’d love to hear about your trip!


----------



## scottmel

Had anyone heard of luxury gold travel? I found it on the Costco site today and the Italy trip looks impressive, same price as abd but longer trip and much more activity. Anyone ever travel with them?


----------



## pixiepirate

scottmel said:


> Had anyone heard of luxury gold travel? I found it on the Costco site today and the Italy trip looks impressive, same price as abd but longer trip and much more activity. Anyone ever travel with them?



Is that part of the Insight travel group?  I have only taken one of their regular tours.  According to our tour director their Luxury Gold brand is supposed to be comparable to Tauck.  I'd be interested in hearing your opinion if you do travel with them as I have been looking at their itinerary for Switzerland.  I'm happy to answer any questions regarding my limited experience with them.


----------



## scottmel

pixiepirate said:


> Is that part of the Insight travel group?  I have only taken one of their regular tours.  According to our tour director their Luxury Gold brand is supposed to be comparable to Tauck.  I'd be interested in hearing your opinion if you do travel with them as I have been looking at their itinerary for Switzerland.  I'm happy to answer any questions regarding my limited experience with them.



THanks! yes it is part of the insight group. I liked their Italy …. did you hear anymore about the Luxury Gold? Up to par with ABD or no?


----------



## pixiepirate

scottmel said:


> THanks! yes it is part of the insight group. I liked their Italy …. did you hear anymore about the Luxury Gold? Up to par with ABD or no?



I have no more information other than the comparison.  That said, the Tauck tour I took was very close to ABD.  It was not a family tour so was slightly less active, but well organized, with local guides at all our stops.  The accommodations were on par with ABD. You could easily check what Luxury Gold offers against the ABD site.  You might check the meals as well, I've found that Tauck seems to include more meals than ABD.  If Luxury Gold is comparable to Tauck, I would say it would be just slightly below ABD.  Hope this helps.


----------



## scottmel

pixiepirate said:


> I have no more information other than the comparison.  That said, the Tauck tour I took was very close to ABD.  It was not a family tour so was slightly less active, but well organized, with local guides at all our stops.  The accommodations were on par with ABD. You could easily check what Luxury Gold offers against the ABD site.  You might check the meals as well, I've found that Tauck seems to include more meals than ABD.  If Luxury Gold is comparable to Tauck, I would say it would be just slightly below ABD.  Hope this helps.



Thanks again. Great suggestions. So if you did the insight tour, was this a step below tauck> Maybe like a Trafalgar type? I know insight is the parent company so I wan't sure if the Luxury Gold was a step above what you did? Meaning what you did they did NOT compare to Taulk? Sorry if I am confusing...


----------



## pixiepirate

scottmel said:


> Thanks again. Great suggestions. So if you did the insight tour, was this a step below tauck> Maybe like a Trafalgar type? I know insight is the parent company so I wan't sure if the Luxury Gold was a step above what you did? Meaning what you did they did NOT compare to Taulk? Sorry if I am confusing...



Not confusing at all.  The Insight tour was almost exactly like Trafalgar.  We were on our own for lunch every day and I believe there were only 3 group dinners on an 8 day tour.  So Luxury Gold should be a definite step above.


----------



## scottmel

pixiepirate said:


> Not confusing at all.  The Insight tour was almost exactly like Trafalgar.  We were on our own for lunch every day and I believe there were only 3 group dinners on an 8 day tour.  So Luxury Gold should be a definite step above.


Great thanks again!


----------



## disneyphx

Has anyone here done a 'non-Disney' Galapagos trip? We are looking at the Natural Habitat trips. They use small yachts. All of us are a bit prone to seasickness so curious about how rough the waters might be.

thanks!


----------



## TXTransplant

I wanted to say thanks for all the suggestions for the Banff/Lake Louise area.

This post is mainly for Cousin Orville...I'm spending my day off today booking excursions.  So far, I've booked the Columbia Icefield tour and a cruise on Lake Maligne (both of those are scheduled for our time in Jasper).  Both were booked through a company called Pursuit - the Banff/Jasper Collection.  We will be driving ourselves to the icefield, but they do offer an option where they transport you there from Banff.

I really want to do the grizzly bear excursion (mainly because I want to see that waterfall!), but I think my son would like to do the Via Ferrata mountain climbing adventure.  I'm not quite sure if I'm brave enough for that, so I'm going to consult with him before booking.

I also booked a reservation at the Willow Stream Spa for the day we arrive at the Fairmont Banff Springs.  Their Spa looks AMAZING!

I've also go a Flytographer photo session booked at the Fairmont Chateau Lake Louise and plan to book afternoon tea there as well.  I'll update as I get more things scheduled (and will for sure post on Insta while we are there).

I've rented a car, so there are a few hikes and sight-seeing things we will do on our own.  

For those who have been before - is it necessary to book the Jasper SkyTram and/or any of the gondola rides in advance?

I am a little nervous about the weather...first week of June looks to be chilly and cloudy.  I'm just hoping the lakes are thawed.


----------



## BluesTraveler

disneyphx said:


> Has anyone here done a 'non-Disney' Galapagos trip? We are looking at the Natural Habitat trips. They use small yachts. All of us are a bit prone to seasickness so curious about how rough the waters might be.
> 
> thanks!


We have just booked the Backroads Galapagos trip for next February.  It's on a 100 person boat, so a little bigger and supposed to be more stable.  Seasickness is an issue for me as well.  I've read that winter months the waters are calmer than summer.


----------



## Cousin Orville

TXTransplant said:


> I wanted to say thanks for all the suggestions for the Banff/Lake Louise area.
> 
> This post is mainly for Cousin Orville...I'm spending my day off today booking excursions.  So far, I've booked the Columbia Icefield tour and a cruise on Lake Maligne (both of those are scheduled for our time in Jasper).  Both were booked through a company called Pursuit - the Banff/Jasper Collection.  We will be driving ourselves to the icefield, but they do offer an option where they transport you there from Banff.
> 
> I really want to do the grizzly bear excursion (mainly because I want to see that waterfall!), but I think my son would like to do the Via Ferrata mountain climbing adventure.  I'm not quite sure if I'm brave enough for that, so I'm going to consult with him before booking.
> 
> I also booked a reservation at the Willow Stream Spa for the day we arrive at the Fairmont Banff Springs.  Their Spa looks AMAZING!
> 
> I've also go a Flytographer photo session booked at the Fairmont Chateau Lake Louise and plan to book afternoon tea there as well.  I'll update as I get more things scheduled (and will for sure post on Insta while we are there).
> 
> I've rented a car, so there are a few hikes and sight-seeing things we will do on our own.
> 
> For those who have been before - is it necessary to book the Jasper SkyTram and/or any of the gondola rides in advance?
> 
> I am a little nervous about the weather...first week of June looks to be chilly and cloudy.  I'm just hoping the lakes are thawed.




Sounds like an amazing trip!  Please report back! We really don’t have many plans yet for our July trip.  We’re staying the entire time at Lake Louise. The plan is to relax and do some local hiking.  We have our big Japan ABD in June so it will be a nice time to decompress and enjoy the nature.


----------



## Donalyn

Cousin Orville - I love hearing about all of your travels, but I have to ask - how much vacation do you get a year?


----------



## Cousin Orville

Donalyn said:


> Cousin Orville - I love hearing about all of your travels, but I have to ask - how much vacation do you get a year?



lol... it varies.  Usually a couple of months.


----------



## Donalyn

Cousin Orville said:


> lol... it varies.  Usually a couple of months.




Nice!


----------



## TXTransplant

I'm looking at booking Nat Geo for an Alaska trip in early June 2020.  I know Nat Geo has been discussed in this thread (I went back and read some of the posts), but I thought I'd ask for some recent feedback.

Specifically, I am looking at the Denali to Kenai Fjords expedition (although, I've also requested info on one of the cruises with a Denali extension).  The MAIN reason I'm looking at Nat Geo is because the dates work for us.  I also really like that it includes a trip on the Denali Star train, too, though.  

Nat Geo is significantly more expensive than ABD...$7k per person, vs $6k (which is the 2019 ABD rate, 2020 dates aren't up).  I looked at some other tour providers, and they just don't have dates that will work for us.  Also, it seems like recent trip reports on the Alaska ABD have noted the extensive time on a bus.  

The Nat Geo trip I am looking at is not one of the "family journey" trips, so I am a little curious about demographics.  I just don't have it in me to try to plan an Alaska trip on my own.  

Also looked at A&K for Machu Picchu, as those dates also work for us.  The kiddo wasn't so interested in that trip, but it sure did look amazing to me.


----------



## Calfan

TXTransplant said:


> I'm looking at booking Nat Geo for an Alaska trip in early June 2020.  I know Nat Geo has been discussed in this thread (I went back and read some of the posts), but I thought I'd ask for some recent feedback.
> 
> Specifically, I am looking at the Denali to Kenai Fjords expedition (although, I've also requested info on one of the cruises with a Denali extension).  The MAIN reason I'm looking at Nat Geo is because the dates work for us.  I also really like that it includes a trip on the Denali Star train, too, though.
> 
> Nat Geo is significantly more expensive than ABD...$7k per person, vs $6k (which is the 2019 ABD rate, 2020 dates aren't up).  I looked at some other tour providers, and they just don't have dates that will work for us.  Also, it seems like recent trip reports on the Alaska ABD have noted the extensive time on a bus.
> 
> The Nat Geo trip I am looking at is not one of the "family journey" trips, so I am a little curious about demographics.  I just don't have it in me to try to plan an Alaska trip on my own.
> 
> Also looked at A&K for Machu Picchu, as those dates also work for us.  The kiddo wasn't so interested in that trip, but it sure did look amazing to me.



My last Nat Geo trip was summer 2018, so not sure if that is recent enough for you.  And it was a family trip, to Peru.  (But it was my fourth overall Nat Geo trip, having done England Coast to Coast hiking in 2015, Emerald Isle hiking in 2016 and Patagonia hiking in 2017.)  I think Nat Geo is a phenomenal group trip provider.  The guides on our Peru trip were fantastic, and our guide to guest ratio was about 1 guide for 3 guests.  I love Nat Geo's smaller group sizes, and we found the accommodations top-notch.  I also like that there seems to be less down time and fewer OYO meals on Nat Geo trips than on the ABDs we have done  To me, the smaller group size, likely more included meals and, for your trip, less bus time would make Nat Geo absolutely worth the higher trip cost.


----------



## TXTransplant

Calfan said:


> My last Nat Geo trip was summer 2018, so not sure if that is recent enough for you.  And it was a family trip, to Peru.  (But it was my fourth overall Nat Geo trip, having done England Coast to Coast hiking in 2015, Emerald Isle hiking in 2016 and Patagonia hiking in 2017.)  I think Nat Geo is a phenomenal group trip provider.  The guides on our Peru trip were fantastic, and our guide to guest ratio was about 1 guide for 3 guests.  I love Nat Geo's smaller group sizes, and we found the accommodations top-notch.  I also like that there seems to be less down time and fewer OYO meals on Nat Geo trips than on the ABDs we have done  To me, the smaller group size, likely more included meals and, for your trip, less bus time would make Nat Geo absolutely worth the higher trip cost.



Exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for. And I also noticed that Nat Geo seems to include more meals. Thanks!


----------



## Donalyn

The Nat Geo Alaska trip that you are considering - I've spent a lot of time looking at Alaska tour itineraries.  This Nat Geo trip is a little different from others.  It includes a few days staying inside Denali park.  All of those meals are included because once you are that far into the park, there really isn't any where else to eat.  

And note, pretty much any trip to Alaska is going to include a lot of coach time.  It is a big state.  I think that the ride from the Denali park entrance to the hotel on this trip will take 6+ hours, I think.  (And again on the way out).  I personally think that it would be cool to stay inside the park like this, but I don't think that it would work for my family.


----------



## Aelin1977

We've done both, Nat Geo and ABD and we've had good and bad experiences with both. Yes, the Nat Geo price is higher but what we did was we broke it down on a day by day basis as to how much guided touring we did vs how much on our own time. In the end, Nat Geo game out ahead as being a lower per day cost based on what was being offered. Also, Nat Geo's trips tend to have a lower max guest limit. Max 25 guests as to ABD's 40. Also, you won't find children or teens on a Nat Geo trip unless it's a family expedition. I believe the age limit is 18. When we did South East Asia, the youngest was 25 but most people were late 30s and up. We've done 2 Nat Geo trips so far, one active expedition with 16 people (that's the limit on the active trips) and 1 private where it was just the two of us. We are getting ready to head on our third Nat Geo trip which is custom private trip for 2 people.


----------



## TXTransplant

Aelin1977 said:


> We've done both, Nat Geo and ABD and we've had good and bad experiences with both. Yes, the Nat Geo price is higher but what we did was we broke it down on a day by day basis as to how much guided touring we did vs how much on our own time. In the end, Nat Geo game out ahead as being a lower per day cost based on what was being offered. Also, Nat Geo's trips tend to have a lower max guest limit. Max 25 guests as to ABD's 40. Also, you won't find children or teens on a Nat Geo trip unless it's a family expedition. I believe the age limit is 18. When we did South East Asia, the youngest was 25 but most people were late 30s and up. We've done 2 Nat Geo trips so far, one active expedition with 18 people (that's the limit on the active trips) and 1 private where it was just the two of us. We are getting ready to head on our third Nat Geo trip which is custom private trip for 2 people.



Are you saying that, if the Nat Geo isn't specifically a family trip that children aren't allowed?  Or just that we shouldn't expect any other children on a trip that isn't a family journey?  I have not asked this specific question to the Nat Geo travel specialists, yet.  

ABD dates are up for Alaska 2020...wouldn't you know it, the only date that would work for us is an Adult Only trip.


----------



## Aelin1977

TXTransplant said:


> Are you saying that, if the Nat Geo isn't specifically a family trip that children aren't allowed?  Or just that we shouldn't expect any other children on a trip that isn't a family journey?  I have not asked this specific question to the Nat Geo travel specialists, yet.
> 
> ABD dates are up for Alaska 2020...wouldn't you know it, the only date that would work for us is an Adult Only trip.



If you look at the pricing information for a regular Nat Geo expedition or active expedition, you will notice they only list prices per person. No mention of children's pricing. If you look at a family expedition, it lists a child price for those under 17, alongside the per person price. So on the regular expeditions, like the one you're looking at, and the more active expeditions, the lowest age limit is 18. This does not account for the private expeditions. Private expeditions can be for families with children or a group of adults.


----------



## BluesTraveler

@TXTransplant you should also look at Backroads trips for Alaska.  Not sure their 2020 dates are up yet, but they have a lot of family departures, and depending on how old your kid is they break it down by age group e.g, older teens, younger kids, etc.


----------



## DisneyKevin

Nat Geo is now a Disney company acquired during the Fox Merger.

If expect it to fall under ABD control soon.


----------



## TXTransplant

Aelin1977 said:


> If you look at the pricing information for a regular Nat Geo expedition or active expedition, you will notice they only list prices per person. No mention of children's pricing. If you look at a family expedition, it lists a child price for those under 17, alongside the per person price. So on the regular expeditions, like the one you're looking at, and the more active expeditions, the lowest age limit is 18. This does not account for the private expeditions. Private expeditions can be for families with children or a group of adults.



I'm not sure this is true...I tried to do an online reservation for one of the 2019 versions of the trip we are interested in, and in the process, it specifically asked if a traveler was under 18.  It only specified that there had to be a traveler over 18 accompanying.  There was no stipulation that everyone had to be over 18.  And the child's pricing is only good up to age 12 (my son will be 15), so paying a higher price isn't an issue.

They are also currently offering a promotion of "bring one kid for 50% off, bring the other free with two paying adults" on select Alaska trips that are NOT designated as "family" trips.

But, I've got an email out to Nat Geo to confirm.


----------



## TXTransplant

BluesTraveler said:


> @TXTransplant you should also look at Backroads trips for Alaska.  Not sure their 2020 dates are up yet, but they have a lot of family departures, and depending on how old your kid is they break it down by age group e.g, older teens, younger kids, etc.



I did look at Backroads...they only have one trip that has a "family/kids" version that also includes Denali National Park.  No 2020 dates are up, yet, but the earliest travel date in 2019 is 6/25.  We pretty much have to travel in late May/early June.  I'm also not a fan that their trips are only 6 days/5 nights.  If I'm going all the way to Alaska, I want the trip to be 8-10 days. 

Our travel dates issue is REALLY limiting our options.


----------



## TXTransplant

DisneyKevin said:


> Nat Geo is now a Disney company acquired during the Fox Merger.
> 
> If expect it to fall under ABD control soon.



They have 2020 intineraries posted and are taking reservations.  I can't imagine they will be able to change much between now and then without having to refund deposits/cancel reservations.


----------



## TXTransplant

TXTransplant said:


> I'm not sure this is true...I tried to do an online reservation for one of the 2019 versions of the trip we are interested in, and in the process, it specifically asked if a traveler was under 18.  It only specified that there had to be a traveler over 18 accompanying.  There was no stipulation that everyone had to be over 18.  And the child's pricing is only good up to age 12 (my son will be 15), so paying a higher price isn't an issue.
> 
> They are also currently offering a promotion of "bring one kid for 50% off, bring the other free with two paying adults" on select Alaska trips that are NOT designated as "family" trips.
> 
> But, I've got an email out to Nat Geo to confirm.



Called to confirm...the minimum age to travel is 8.  The specific "family" trips offer reduced pricing for kids.  The non-"family" trips DO allow kids, you just don't get the discounted price.

Update because I don’t want to post inaccurate info:  in a follow-up conversation with another/different Nat Geo rep, I was told that the minimum age of 8 is incorrect. The age limits actually vary from trip to trip. In our case, the rep contacted the local tour operator and they confirmed that they will accept a 15 year old (he also has extensive travel experience).

So, we are good to go on this trip (which does involve some significant bus time, but I think the train trip makes up for it). But, if you want to book a non-family trip, you should call to confirm age limits.

There are unlikely to be any other kids on this trip, but that’s ok.


----------



## Bobo912

TXTransplant said:


> Called to confirm...the minimum age to travel is 8.  The specific "family" trips offer reduced pricing for kids.  The non-"family" trips DO allow kids, you just don't get the discounted price.
> 
> Update because I don’t want to post inaccurate info:  in a follow-up conversation with another/different Nat Geo rep, I was told that the minimum age of 8 is incorrect. The age limits actually vary from trip to trip. In our case, the rep contacted the local tour operator and they confirmed that they will accept a 15 year old (he also has extensive travel experience).
> 
> So, we are good to go on this trip (which does involve some significant bus time, but I think the train trip makes up for it). But, if you want to book a non-family trip, you should call to confirm age limits.
> 
> There are unlikely to be any other kids on this trip, but that’s ok.




When we did the Nat Geo Galapagos trip, it wasn't designated a family trip, but I did get 50% off the adult price for my son.  It's been a few years, so that may have changed.  It was in March (spring break for us) and there were a lot of kids between 10 and 16 on the trip.


----------



## TXTransplant

Bobo912 said:


> When we did the Nat Geo Galapagos trip, it wasn't designated a family trip, but I did get 50% off the adult price for my son.  It's been a few years, so that may have changed.  It was in March (spring break for us) and there were a lot of kids between 10 and 16 on the trip.



50% off?!?  Wow!!!  The family version of the trip we want to take only offers a $200 discount for kids, so that's why I'm not worried about it too much.  $200 isn't going to make or break whether or not we take the trip.  And my kid is 15, 6' tall, and 200 lbs - he will probably eat more than the $200 difference in price!

To further elaborate on the age requirements, I was also looking at a 10 day “journeys” trip (the journeys trips offer more modest accommodations and more on your own time and meals at a lower cost). That trip also does not have a “family” version or child-pricing, but the PDF itinerary does say the minimum age is 12. So, you really do have to inquire about each trip individually. Just because a trip doesn’t say “family” or have child-pricing does not mean kids aren’t allowed.


----------



## Ava

All the Nat Geo Journeys trips I've looked at have a minimum age of 12 stated on the website. Now they also have a line of "Family Journeys" trips, minimum age for those is 7 and there's a $200 discount for children 7-12. The consistent age requirement seems to be a feature of G Adventures (who Nat Geo partners with for the Journeys trips); all of the G Adventures Classic trips have a minimum age of 12, and all of their Family trips have a minimum age of 6.

Speaking of, I'm really interested in some of the new Family Journeys trips. Their Costa Rica itinerary is different from any I've seen offered by other companies. When they first started announcing the destinations for the Family Journeys and some of them overlapped with destinations already covered by G Adventures for family trips, I was curious if they'd be different itineraries or just upgraded accommodations/more included meals. The Costa Rica trip is completely different; Peru seems to be a similar itinerary, just one day longer and done in reverse. The only other overlap is Vietnam, but Journeys combines it with Cambodia whereas G Adv is just Vietnam.


----------



## chloe77

Does anyone know of any comparable options for Australia?  The ABD date I wanted/needed is already in waitlist status for summer 2020, I was on hold for 4 hours today and didn't get it :-(  Seems like Thomson and Tauck don't have Australia Family options.  Is Nat Geo a good option, or Butterfield?  I will have a 9 year old and an 11 year old then, so I don't want something that's too adult...  Anything other companies I'm not thinking of?  We could also go custom, but we've done that before and I feel like there's more pressure on us to be "on" all the time when we are 1:1 with our guides all day.


----------



## BluesTraveler

chloe77 said:


> Does anyone know of any comparable options for Australia?  The ABD date I wanted/needed is already in waitlist status for summer 2020, I was on hold for 4 hours today and didn't get it :-(  Seems like Thomson and Tauck don't have Australia Family options.  Is Nat Geo a good option, or Butterfield?  I will have a 9 year old and an 11 year old then, so I don't want something that's too adult...  Anything other companies I'm not thinking of?  We could also go custom, but we've done that before and I feel like there's more pressure on us to be "on" all the time when we are 1:1 with our guides all day.


I would look at Abercrombie & Kent, although their dates for the next year don't usually come out until later in the summer.  But you can see the 2019 Australia family trip and see if it looks like something that would work.


----------



## Grifdog22

chloe77 said:


> Does anyone know of any comparable options for Australia?  The ABD date I wanted/needed is already in waitlist status for summer 2020, I was on hold for 4 hours today and didn't get it :-(  Seems like Thomson and Tauck don't have Australia Family options.  Is Nat Geo a good option, or Butterfield?  I will have a 9 year old and an 11 year old then, so I don't want something that's too adult...  Anything other companies I'm not thinking of?  We could also go custom, but we've done that before and I feel like there's more pressure on us to be "on" all the time when we are 1:1 with our guides all day.



You should really try the waitlist first - As Say Hello has already mentioned, some folks drop when they find out they didn't get the EBD; sometimes they also add dates.  They have *12* trips that are not adult exclusive - we usually come into these with four or five preferred dates - try a different date if you can't get your first choice. Australia is an amazing country and many parts of this trip are spectacular.  Read some of the trip reports on this as well, and don't be shy about using OYO time - plan ahead.


----------



## chloe77

Grifdog22 said:


> You should really try the waitlist first - As Say Hello has already mentioned, some folks drop when they find out they didn't get the EBD; sometimes they also add dates.  They have *12* trips that are not adult exclusive - we usually come into these with four or five preferred dates - try a different date if you can't get your first choice. Australia is an amazing country and many parts of this trip are spectacular.  Read some of the trip reports on this as well, and don't be shy about using OYO time - plan ahead.


Crazy news - I called back, wait time was only 5 minutes (compared to hours earlier in the day) and it turns out that the person I talked to was wrong about availability.  We are booked on the August date that I was hoping for.  Thank you for your advice!


----------



## sayhello

chloe77 said:


> Crazy news - I called back, wait time was only 5 minutes (compared to hours earlier in the day) and it turns out that the person I talked to was wrong about availability.  We are booked on the August date that I was hoping for.  Thank you for your advice!


I think they pull in people from other groups to help out on high-volume days, and they don't actually know that much about ABD or their systems.  SO glad it worked out for you!  Persistence paid off!

Sayhello


----------



## Lulu27

I was browsing Nat Geo Family trips last night. I noticed that the 2020 trips have changed. The price has dropped significantly and are now listed as "casual" level of service vs "premium". The hotels are different (assume less high end?) Gratuities are no longer included. The trip size is now capped at 20 guests (vs 25....surprised by this!) Interesting changes.


----------



## BluesTraveler

Lulu27 said:


> I was browsing Nat Geo Family trips last night. I noticed that the 2020 trips have changed. The price has dropped significantly and are now listed as "casual" level of service vs "premium". The hotels are different (assume less high end?) Gratuities are no longer included. The trip size is now capped at 20 guests (vs 25....surprised by this!) Interesting changes.


I think they have actually doubled their offerings, and now half of them are "premium" (higher end hotels, more full itineraries) and half of them are "casual" (less high end hotels, more on your own time in the itineraries).  They have added a bunch of new ones for 2020, including a France trip that looks very similar to the one ABD used to do.  I'm sort of irrationally-first-world-problem-sick over that, because we just took our kids to France over spring break on our own and Adventures-by-Mom is not nearly as fun as Adventures-by-Someone-Else.  We would have done that Nat Geo trip in a heartbeat, but now too much overlap with what we just did.


----------



## TXTransplant

BluesTraveler said:


> I think they have actually doubled their offerings, and now half of them are "premium" (higher end hotels, more full itineraries) and half of them are "casual" (less high end hotels, more on your own time in the itineraries).  They have added a bunch of new ones for 2020, including a France trip that looks very similar to the one ABD used to do.  I'm sort of irrationally-first-world-problem-sick over that, because we just took our kids to France over spring break on our own and Adventures-by-Mom is not nearly as fun as Adventures-by-Someone-Else.  We would have done that Nat Geo trip in a heartbeat, but now too much overlap with what we just did.



What BluesTraveler said...there are more trips, ranging from premium to casual (the "journeys") trips.  The trip I am looking at to Alaska for 2020 is a premium expedition and gratuities are included.  And it's definitely not lower price ($7k per person).  But, I also looked at one of the journeys trips as an option.  The dates we want/need would be only $3800 pp vs. the $7000 pp, But, it's a very different trip.  Out of 16 different Alaska trips, only two are not "premium."


----------



## Cousin Orville

BluesTraveler said:


> I think they have actually doubled their offerings, and now half of them are "premium" (higher end hotels, more full itineraries) and half of them are "casual" (less high end hotels, more on your own time in the itineraries).  They have added a bunch of new ones for 2020, including a France trip that looks very similar to the one ABD used to do.  I'm sort of irrationally-first-world-problem-sick over that, because we just took our kids to France over spring break on our own and Adventures-by-Mom is not nearly as fun as Adventures-by-Someone-Else.  We would have done that Nat Geo trip in a heartbeat, but now too much overlap with what we just did.



Nat Geo's France itinerary looks great.  It includes the Loire Valley which is critical.

I kind of feel the same way.  We're doing Morocco on our own this Christmas with a private guide.  I'm a little embarrassed to say what we're spending, but it's a lot more than Nat Geo's.  If I were planning a family trip to Morocco from scratch, I'd give this strong consideration.


----------



## Lulu27

BluesTraveler said:


> I think they have actually doubled their offerings, and now half of them are "premium" (higher end hotels, more full itineraries) and half of them are "casual" (less high end hotels, more on your own time in the itineraries).  They have added a bunch of new ones for 2020, including a France trip that looks very similar to the one ABD used to do.  I'm sort of irrationally-first-world-problem-sick over that, because we just took our kids to France over spring break on our own and Adventures-by-Mom is not nearly as fun as Adventures-by-Someone-Else.  We would have done that Nat Geo trip in a heartbeat, but now too much overlap with what we just did.





TXTransplant said:


> What BluesTraveler said...there are more trips, ranging from premium to casual (the "journeys") trips.  The trip I am looking at to Alaska for 2020 is a premium expedition and gratuities are included.  And it's definitely not lower price ($7k per person).  But, I also looked at one of the journeys trips as an option.  The dates we want/need would be only $3800 pp vs. the $7000 pp, But, it's a very different trip.  Out of 16 different Alaska trips, only two are not "premium."



Oops, I was referring to the *FAMILY *trips for 2020...they are now Casual Service. Yes, Signature Land trips are still available (just not Family specific). Anyway, it looks like the Nat Geo Family trips will now be more in line with their Journeys offerings rather than their Premium Expeditions.  Thought it would be good info for those looking at alternatives to ABD....they are no longer comparable in the accommodation category....but are still a great alternative! The low group size is definitely a plus!


----------



## Donalyn

Nat Geo I believe will still have family signature land trips available.  I read it to say that they were giving people options - signature level or casual level, although the trips are not identical, different itineraries, etc.

Blues Traveler - I love the "Adventures by Mom" thing.  You are right, Adventures by someone else are definitely more fun for this mom!


----------



## kaseyC

We are doing Portugal in June with "Adventures by Mom"! lol  After doing a number of Tauck Bridges Tours and our recent Disneyland Short Escape ABD, my heart's just not into planning the way I used to be.  With 3 daughters (ages 23, 18 and 16), I have to make sure there is at least one activity or tour planned each day or we'll be standing around looking at each other or they'll be whining about being bored.


----------



## Ava

Lulu27 said:


> Oops, I was referring to the *FAMILY *trips for 2020...they are now Casual Service. Yes, Signature Land trips are still available (just not Family specific). Anyway, it looks like the Nat Geo Family trips will now be more in line with their Journeys offerings rather than their Premium Expeditions.  Thought it would be good info for those looking at alternatives to ABD....they are no longer comparable in the accommodation category....but are still a great alternative! The low group size is definitely a plus!


That’s interesting, I didn’t notice that there were no 2020 dates posted for the Family Expeditions. I wonder if they’re getting rid of those, or just haven’t posted new dates yet.

The Family Journeys are new for 2020. They’re a partnership with G Adventures, who also run a handful of their own family tours. Dates for those are posted through 2020 as well. They’re definitely lower end than ABD/Nat Geo Expeditions though.


----------



## emilymad

I love the France itinerary but I am not sure if it is too low end for the way we like to travel.


----------



## Lulu27

kaseyC said:


> We are doing Portugal in June with "Adventures by Mom"! lol  After doing a number of Tauck Bridges Tours and our recent Disneyland Short Escape ABD, my heart's just not into planning the way I used to be.  With 3 daughters (ages 23, 18 and 16), I have to make sure there is at least one activity or tour planned each day or we'll be standing around looking at each other or they'll be whining about being bored.



We did "Adventures by Mom" for Alaska last year. I built our schedule using the itineraries of ABD, Tauck, & Nat Geo as a guide. My kids were 17, 15, & 13...I encouraged them to read up on the guide book & itineraries and give input on things they wanted to do/see. They helped a lot and we had a fabulous trip!


----------



## Ava

kaseyC said:


> We are doing Portugal in June with "Adventures by Mom"! lol  After doing a number of Tauck Bridges Tours and our recent Disneyland Short Escape ABD, my heart's just not into planning the way I used to be.  With 3 daughters (ages 23, 18 and 16), I have to make sure there is at least one activity or tour planned each day or we'll be standing around looking at each other or they'll be whining about being bored.


Have them plan it! Give them a Portugal guide book and tell them to decide what they want to see/do. If they can’t agree on things, assign each girl a certain number of days to plan. Maybe they’ll be less inclined to whine about being bored if they do some of the planning.


----------



## BluesTraveler

I called Nat Geo today - and the woman I spoke with said they are *not* discontinuing the Family Expeditions and replacing them with the Journeys - they just don't have 2020 dates for the Family Expeditions yet.  They'll have both offerings next year.

This is consistent with our experience last year - we were waiting for them to post their 2019 dates before we made a final decision and as I recall they 2019 dates were not up until July 2018.


----------



## BluesTraveler

Update - Nat Geo just called me back to say...they don't actually know for sure about the family expeditions (the higher end).  She very politely told me they're not sure internally.  Maybe they are discontinuing those so as to not compete with ABD since they are now the same company??


----------



## Lulu27

BluesTraveler said:


> Update - Nat Geo just called me back to say...they don't actually know for sure about the family expeditions (the higher end).  She very politely told me they're not sure internally.  Maybe they are discontinuing those so as to not compete with ABD since they are now the same company??



That's what I was thinking. It would make sense. Glad that they've added the Journey-type trip, though! Great to have yet another option for all levels of traveling style!


----------



## Donalyn

Lulu27 said:


> We did "Adventures by Mom" for Alaska last year. I built our schedule using the itineraries of ABD, Tauck, & Nat Geo as a guide. My kids were 17, 15, & 13...I encouraged them to read up on the guide book & itineraries and give input on things they wanted to do/see. They helped a lot and we had a fabulous trip!



I'm working on an Adventures by Mom Alaska for next summer and I've poured over all of the group itineraries that I could find.  My kids (12 and 15) will never read the guide books, but I do ask them a lot of questions.  

I'm also working on a trip to DC and I did give them a survey to complete with different categories (Smithsonian museums, monuments, governmental buildings, other things) and had them rate their top things in each category so that I could plan our limited time to make sure that we hit the things that were important to the group.  

Family Journey trips - I was looking at them the last few days.  Definitely lower end accommodations, which I think I could live with.  However, in some parts of the world, I think that I'd like more structured time and less on-your-own.


----------



## TXTransplant

BluesTraveler said:


> Update - Nat Geo just called me back to say...they don't actually know for sure about the family expeditions (the higher end).  She very politely told me they're not sure internally.  Maybe they are discontinuing those so as to not compete with ABD since they are now the same company??



I noticed that there were no 2020 dates up for the "family" version of the Alaska trip that we are looking at.  If this is true, then it seems like they will have to be much more open about allowing kids of all ages on the premium expeditions.   

What's funny is, I would have considered ABD for Alaska because of the significant price difference between ABD and Nat Geo, even though I like the Nat Geo itinerary better.  ABD is offering special pricing of $4889 on the June 1, 2020 departure - but it's an adult only trip :/


----------



## kaseyC

Lulu27 said:


> We did "Adventures by Mom" for Alaska last year. I built our schedule using the itineraries of ABD, Tauck, & Nat Geo as a guide. My kids were 17, 15, & 13...I encouraged them to read up on the guide book & itineraries and give input on things they wanted to do/see. They helped a lot and we had a fabulous trip!





Ava said:


> Have them plan it! Give them a Portugal guide book and tell them to decide what they want to see/do. If they can’t agree on things, assign each girl a certain number of days to plan. Maybe they’ll be less inclined to whine about being bored if they do some of the planning.



Thanks for the suggestions.   I do include the girls and my husband in the planning and it was their choice for our family summer vacation this year.  I have some great private tours and activities planned that will be educational, active and fun.  But it's also nice to leave the planning to someone else at times.


----------



## Cousin Orville

kaseyC said:


> We are doing Portugal in June with "Adventures by Mom"! lol  After doing a number of Tauck Bridges Tours and our recent Disneyland Short Escape ABD, my heart's just not into planning the way I used to be.  With 3 daughters (ages 23, 18 and 16), I have to make sure there is at least one activity or tour planned each day or we'll be standing around looking at each other or they'll be whining about being bored.



We went to Portugal Christmas of 2017 and really didn't know where to start or have the energy to research what we wanted to do.  After procrastinating a few months, we contacted "Tours for You" based in Portugal.  I got their name from Conde Nast's Recommended Travel Specialists list at the time ~2017.  They created an awesome trip for us with great local guides.  Several special experiences.  It's still one of my kids favorite trips.


----------



## kaseyC

Cousin Orville said:


> We went to Portugal Christmas of 2017 and really didn't know where to start or have the energy to research what we wanted to do.  After procrastinating a few months, we contacted "Tours for You" based in Portugal.  I got their name from Conde Nast's Recommended Travel Specialists list at the time ~2017.  They created an awesome trip for us with great local guides.  Several special experiences.  It's still one of my kids favorite trips.



We didn't use the same group you used but we did something similar.  Booked local groups in Lisbon and Porto that arranged the majority of our activities and tours in each area.  We have quite a few cool ones.  One of my daughter's (18) best friends this year is an exchange student from Lisbon so he's been giving us a lot of tips.  

Did you go to the Time Out Market is Lisbon.  They are opening one in Chicago in the fall so we are looking forward to visiting the original one in Lisbon and planning a visit to Chicago's once it opens.  https://www.timeoutmarket.com/lisboa/en/


----------



## Cousin Orville

kaseyC said:


> We didn't use the same group you used but we did something similar.  Booked local groups in Lisbon and Porto that arranged the majority of our activities and tours in each area.  We have quite a few cool ones.  One of my daughter's (18) best friends this year is an exchange student from Lisbon so he's been giving us a lot of tips.
> 
> Did you go to the Time Out Market is Lisbon.  They are opening one in Chicago in the fall so we are looking forward to visiting the original one in Lisbon and planning a visit to Chicago's once it opens.  https://www.timeoutmarket.com/lisboa/en/



Yes, we did visit the Time Out Market.  Great selection of food and wine!  Lisbon is such a great city.  You'll fall in love with Portugal I'm sure.  Total hidden gem of Europe!


----------



## Rapunzellover

Doing Portugal with Tauck in 2 weeks.  So excited.  Will report back how it goes.  I have much prefered dealing with Tauck as a company compared to ABD, and they have a great app.  They may become my go to.... but ABD still has the edge in some itineraries I want to do (return to Scotland, Egypt, Australia, Iceland, Norway, Amalfi Coast)


----------



## CaliKris

We are going to South Africa, Botswana and Zambia with Tauck in June.  So excited!  Their app is amazing and you can see your itinerary, update info and pay via the website.


----------



## Dis_Yoda

Rapunzellover said:


> Doing Portugal with Tauck in 2 weeks.  So excited.  Will report back how it goes.  I have much prefered dealing with Tauck as a company compared to ABD, and they have a great app.  They may become my go to.... but ABD still has the edge in some itineraries I want to do (return to Scotland, Egypt, Australia, Iceland, Norway, Amalfi Coast)


The hotel Tauck uses on the Amalfi Coast makes their tour edge out.  (I did their Amalfi, Capri, Rome tour).


----------



## tink1970

Rapunzellover said:


> Doing Portugal with Tauck in 2 weeks.  So excited.  Will report back how it goes.  I have much prefered dealing with Tauck as a company compared to ABD, and they have a great app.  They may become my go to.... but ABD still has the edge in some itineraries I want to do (return to Scotland, Egypt, Australia, Iceland, Norway, Amalfi Coast)





CaliKris said:


> We are going to South Africa, Botswana and Zambia with Tauck in June.  So excited!  Their app is amazing and you can see your itinerary, update info and pay via the website.



Between the last ABD new release locations (ie places I have no interest in visiting or returning to) PLUS the opening day craziness, Tauck is now my go to provider! @Rapunzellover -have you seen the Tauck small ship itineraries for Iceland and Scotland on Tauck-both of those are on my Life List!


----------



## emilymad

Dis_Yoda said:


> The hotel Tauck uses on the Amalfi Coast makes their tour edge out.  (I did their Amalfi, Capri, Rome tour).



Did you like this tour?  We are considering it.


----------



## Dis_Yoda

emilymad said:


> Did you like this tour?  We are considering it.


I absolutely loved the tour.  If you’re on Instagram - I’m swflmeli and I posted photos every day in our tour in October 2017 (you may have to go back a bit) So much so we are using them again for a 13 night tour in September in France.  We are starting 2021 talks and which Tauck we are going to do.


----------



## nemofans

We are taking the Tauck Bridges Rome/Sorrento tour this summer.


----------



## dolewhipdreams

Hello everyone! I don't think the search feature on the new site layout is quite working yet so I apologize if this is a duplicate or frequently discussed topic.

My DH and I are looking to do the China ABD in 2020 (one of the adults-only dates) but we want to have some other options for comparison. So can anyone out there recommend a reputable tour company similar to ABD in terms of service/experiences? We are looking for an itinerary similar to the ABD that is somewhere around 10-12 days and either starts or ends in Shanghai or Hong Kong so that we can do the Disney parks to bookend the trip. Thanks for your help!


----------



## blabadie

I would be interested to hear opinions on other China tour options as well.  We are needing a family-friendly tour, but would prefer to avoid the summer departure dates that ABD tends to use for family trips.


----------



## Sakura1017

dolewhipdreams said:


> Hello everyone! I don't think the search feature on the new site layout is quite working yet so I apologize if this is a duplicate or frequently discussed topic.
> 
> My DH and I are looking to do the China ABD in 2020 (one of the adults-only dates) but we want to have some other options for comparison. So can anyone out there recommend a reputable tour company similar to ABD in terms of service/experiences? We are looking for an itinerary similar to the ABD that is somewhere around 10-12 days and either starts or ends in Shanghai or Hong Kong so that we can do the Disney parks to bookend the trip. Thanks for your help!



I just met with a travel agent last week regarding this. She recommended me Alexander + Roberts. They only do a max of 16 per each travel date. I'm still debating with my family, but she found a 16 day travel, that also goes to Tibet and sails on the yangzi river. Their price for all of that would have been $7,199 per person.


----------



## dolewhipdreams

Sakura1017 said:


> I just met with a travel agent last week regarding this. She recommended me Alexander + Roberts. They only do a max of 16 per each travel date. I'm still debating with my family, but she found a 16 day travel, that also goes to Tibet and sails on the yangzi river. Their price for all of that would have been $7,199 per person.


Thank you I will look into them!


----------



## Calfan

dolewhipdreams said:


> Hello everyone! I don't think the search feature on the new site layout is quite working yet so I apologize if this is a duplicate or frequently discussed topic.
> 
> My DH and I are looking to do the China ABD in 2020 (one of the adults-only dates) but we want to have some other options for comparison. So can anyone out there recommend a reputable tour company similar to ABD in terms of service/experiences? We are looking for an itinerary similar to the ABD that is somewhere around 10-12 days and either starts or ends in Shanghai or Hong Kong so that we can do the Disney parks to bookend the trip. Thanks for your help!





blabadie said:


> I would be interested to hear opinions on other China tour options as well.  We are needing a family-friendly tour, but would prefer to avoid the summer departure dates that ABD tends to use for family trips.



Check out Thomson Family Adventures. That trip doesn’t do Hong Kong but ends in Shanghai. It hits the same highlights as the ABD but is longer (an overnight in Xi’an instead of flying in and out the same day, and 3 nights in Yangshuo). We had 10 on our trip and the max is around 20.


----------



## dolewhipdreams

Calfan said:


> Check out Thomson Family Adventures. That trip doesn’t do Hong Kong but ends in Shanghai. It hits the same highlights as the ABD but is longer (an overnight in Xi’an instead of flying in and out the same day, and 3 nights in Yangshuo). We had 10 on our trip and the max is around 20.


Thanks!!


----------



## LuckyMamaInDE

Calfan said:


> Check out Thomson Family Adventures. That trip doesn’t do Hong Kong but ends in Shanghai. It hits the same highlights as the ABD but is longer (an overnight in Xi’an instead of flying in and out the same day, and 3 nights in Yangshuo). We had 10 on our trip and the max is around 20.


Holy cow, I had no idea ABD visits Xi'an for only hours! There is so much more to see and do in Xi'an than just the Terra Cotta Museum  We had 3 nights there on our trip to China--but we went with a friend who takes a tour group every summer from the university here, so we had more of a personalized tour.

Plus, all that time in transit--yuck.


----------



## Cousin Orville

LuckyMamaInDE said:


> Holy cow, I had no idea ABD visits Xi'an for only hours! There is so much more to see and do in Xi'an than just the Terra Cotta Museum  We had 3 nights there on our trip to China--but we went with a friend who takes a tour group every summer from the university here, so we had more of a personalized tour.
> 
> Plus, all that time in transit--yuck.



I agree with you, but that's the price you pay squeezing China into 12 days.  It's still an excellent trip.  Would you rather have the extra days in Xi'an or Hong Kong?  I could argue either side, but I'd probably land on Hong Kong.   Touring China is like touring the United States.  You have to compromise somewhere unless you're backpacking for 3 months or know you'll return.  Most of these itineraries that I've seen cut Beijing too short IMO.  The one advantage of ABD now is that it begins and ends in HK and Shanghai (my 2 favorites in China) which allows extra days to be easily added on both ends.


----------



## LuckyMamaInDE

Cousin Orville said:


> I agree with you, but that's the price you pay squeezing China into 12 days.  It's still an excellent trip.  Would you rather have the extra days in Xi'an or Hong Kong?  I could argue either side, but I'd probably land on Hong Kong.   Touring China is like touring the United States.  You have to compromise somewhere unless you're backpacking for 3 months or know you'll return.  Most of these itineraries that I've seen cut Beijing too short IMO.  The one advantage of ABD now is that it begins and ends in HK and Shanghai (my 2 favorites in China) which allows extra days to be easily added on both ends.


Yeah, we didn't go to Hong Kong on our trip nor to Guilin. We'll visit those places on our next trip to China! We stayed 5 days in Beijing, 3 in Xi'an, and 5 in Shanghai.


----------



## blabadie

Calfan said:


> Check out Thomson Family Adventures. That trip doesn’t do Hong Kong but ends in Shanghai. It hits the same highlights as the ABD but is longer (an overnight in Xi’an instead of flying in and out the same day, and 3 nights in Yangshuo). We had 10 on our trip and the max is around 20.



The Thomson Family Adventures looks promising.  We will most likely be on expat assignment in India for the next 3 years, so returning to China for a shorter separate Hong Kong trip would be doable.

I also ran across the National Geographic Private expedition to China.  It looked pretty nice (their premium level) and started at only $4k, so seemed like a relatively good deal.   Does anyone have experience with that trip or have opinions on Natl Geo vs. Thomson?


----------



## Calfan

blabadie said:


> The Thomson Family Adventures looks promising.  We will most likely be on expat assignment in India for the next 3 years, so returning to China for a shorter separate Hong Kong trip would be doable.
> 
> I also ran across the National Geographic Private expedition to China.  It looked pretty nice (their premium level) and started at only $4k, so seemed like a relatively good deal.   Does anyone have experience with that trip or have opinions on Natl Geo vs. Thomson?



No experience with that trip or a Nat Geo private trip, but I have done 4 Nat Geo trips overall (3 hiking adventures and a family trip to Peru), and they have all been fantastic. FYI that there is a relationship between Nat Geo and Thomson, at least for some of Nat Geo’s trips. Thomson actually ran our Nat Geo Peru family trip. We are doing Japan with Thomson in 2020.


----------



## aggiedog

I'm pretty sure we're going to try the new NatGeo Family Journeys trip to Japan in 2020.  At $5,700 for 9 days, it feels like a bargain.  There is some OYO time and only 2 dinners are included, but my family likes adventuresome eating, so that's no problem.


----------



## dolewhipdreams

Cousin Orville said:


> I agree with you, but that's the price you pay squeezing China into 12 days.  It's still an excellent trip.  Would you rather have the extra days in Xi'an or Hong Kong?  I could argue either side, but I'd probably land on Hong Kong.   Touring China is like touring the United States.  You have to compromise somewhere unless you're backpacking for 3 months or know you'll return.  Most of these itineraries that I've seen cut Beijing too short IMO.  The one advantage of ABD now is that it begins and ends in HK and Shanghai (my 2 favorites in China) which allows extra days to be easily added on both ends.


The start/end in HK and Shanghai is part of the major draw to ABD for us, since our major reason for visiting China is to see the two Disney parks there, and visiting them is easier with the itinerary set up that way. I haven't found many trips that include HK at all and several have Shanghai right in the middle. Will definitely check out Nat Geo as others have mentioned.


----------



## sun_seekin

China has been on my radar for quite some time and while the ABD version is highest in the running, i’ve also been scoping out the websites for Wild China (recommended by 1000 Places to See Before You Die) and Catherine Lu tours.  I have no experience with any of these other tour companies though.


----------



## kaseyC

dolewhipdreams said:


> The start/end in HK and Shanghai is part of the major draw to ABD for us, since our major reason for visiting China is to see the two Disney parks there, and visiting them is easier with the itinerary set up that way. I haven't found many trips that include HK at all and several have Shanghai right in the middle. Will definitely check out Nat Geo as others have mentioned.


That's one of the main reason we chose ABD over a few others we were considering, Disney parks and Hong Kong.



sun_seekin said:


> China has been on my radar for quite some time and while the ABD version is highest in the running, i’ve also been scoping out the websites for Wild China (recommended by 1000 Places to See Before You Die) and Catherine Lu tours.  I have no experience with any of these other tour companies though.


Wild China is the tour company that is the host of ABD in China.  Learned that when I needed additional information from ABD for our Visas and the information came directly from Wild China.  So I guess you can say in a way that many on this board have had experience with Wild China. lol


----------



## AquaDame

sun_seekin said:


> China has been on my radar for quite some time and while the ABD version is highest in the running, i’ve also been scoping out the websites for Wild China (recommended by 1000 Places to See Before You Die) and Catherine Lu tours.  I have no experience with any of these other tour companies though.



We used Catherine Lu for our November trip last year - it was nice if you would rather have a private guide. In retrospect I would have preferred a small group as I'm a bit of an introvert and having to chat with guides every day all day was a little tiring. Another family or two to come up with questions and chat so I could have more downtime on the drives would have been nice. As the only real negative I can come up with though, that says a lot about the quality of the people she engages! It was also far cheaper and tailored 100% to what we wanted to do over the ABD.


----------



## aggiedog

So I called today to put a deposit down for the NatGeo Family Journey to Japan, and found out that because we are a family group of 8, we can  book a private trip for the  same cost as the regular trip.  Sweet!  Same itinerary, same guides, just more flexibility on meals and the focus of some of the tours.  When I asked what the difference was between the two, the first example he gave was "if you're foodies, we can tailor the food experience so you can try new things and make the most out of the cuisine."  Boom.  That sold me.  We love to eat.  It does have to start +/- 3 days from a "public" trip, but that actually works better for us.  I'm super excited.


----------



## SirDuff

Just booked my third Backroads trip (hiking in Peru).

Aggiedog - I think Backgrounds does something similar with private trips (though the minimum number may be different)


----------



## BluesTraveler

SirDuff said:


> Just booked my third Backroads trip (hiking in Peru).
> 
> Aggiedog - I think Backgrounds does something similar with private trips (though the minimum number may be different)



Please report back on the Backroads Peru trip, that one is high on my list.  We are going to the Galapagos with them in February.  Yes, Backroads also does private trips.  Am pretty sure the number is 10 - we were trying to coordinate a private Vietnam trip with some friends but couldn't quite get the dates over Christmas to work out.


----------



## SirDuff

BluesTraveler said:


> Please report back on the Backroads Peru trip, that one is high on my list.  We are going to the Galapagos with them in February.  Yes, Backroads also does private trips.  Am pretty sure the number is 10 - we were trying to coordinate a private Vietnam trip with some friends but couldn't quite get the dates over Christmas to work out.



Will do.  I'm not going until September though (it's the lodge-to-lodge trekking one).  

And, yes, I think it is 10 people for the private group.  You can do it with fewer, but there is a surcharge.  On the other hand, a private tour can actually work out cheaper since everyone gets the original/lowest price whereas, with a normal tour, prices go up as more people join.


----------



## aggiedog

Just found out that while we will have one guide for the 8 of us, if we add friends/family up to 10, then we get 2 guides.


----------



## Rapunzellover

So I am currently on my Tauck Portugal tour.  Right now, I am not sure how it rates against ABD.  I am enjoying,  but feels really slower paced so far.  Am interested to see exactly how I'll feel when all is said and done.


----------



## Dis_Yoda

Rapunzellover said:


> So I am currently on my Tauck Portugal tour.  Right now, I am not sure how it rates against ABD.  I am enjoying,  but feels really slower paced so far.  Am interested to see exactly how I'll feel when all is said and done.


What was the pace and activity ratings?


----------



## Rapunzellover

Dis_Yoda said:


> What was the pace and activity ratings?



2 and 2... so I wasn't expecting an intensive trip.  I'm just wondering if slower paced itineraries are for me.


----------



## Candycane83

Hi all! I was directed here for more information on Tauck... my family is looking to go to Europe next year with my six year old... I noticed that Tauck offers a similar tour to ABD for the same dates. The only difference is touring Rome instead of Florence I think. The Tauck tour does not really specify a recommended age for kids. Anyone knows this info or have any insights on this tour? It will be part of a longer trip that will basically be planned by me, lol! We’re probably going to do Barcelona and one other place on our own besides this. Thanks!


----------



## Dis_Yoda

Rapunzellover said:


> 2 and 2... so I wasn't expecting an intensive trip.  I'm just wondering if slower paced itineraries are for me.


My first tour with them was a 3/3 which we enjoyed.  Our next is a 3/2 but it’s a 13 night so I’m hoping the pace being lower doesn’t bother us too much.


----------



## sayhello

Candycane83 said:


> Hi all! I was directed here for more information on Tauck... my family is looking to go to Europe next year with my six year old... I noticed that Tauck offers a similar tour to ABD for the same dates. The only difference is touring Rome instead of Florence I think. The Tauck tour does not really specify a recommended age for kids. Anyone knows this info or have any insights on this tour? It will be part of a longer trip that will basically be planned by me, lol! We’re probably going to do Barcelona and one other place on our own besides this. Thanks!


Make sure you're looking at Tauck *Bridges* which are their family tours.  The regular Tauck trips aren't really family oriented, and skew older.

Sayhello


----------



## Candycane83

sayhello said:


> Make sure you're looking at Tauck *Bridges* which are their family tours.  The regular Tauck trips aren't really family oriented, and skew older.
> 
> Sayhello


Thanks I’ll double check! I went to their main site and looked for Family Journeys. I found the tour The Sweet Life: Rome and Sorrento.  Hopefully that’s right.


----------



## nemofans

Yes Sweet Life: Rome & Sorrento is Tauck Bridges and we are going on that soon.  You should call and ask about age though.  The youngest on our tour is 10 yrs old.  I think 8 may be the minimum.


----------



## laceltris3

nemofans said:


> Yes Sweet Life: Rome & Sorrento is Tauck Bridges and we are going on that soon.  You should call and ask about age though.  The youngest on our tour is 10 yrs old.  I think 8 may be the minimum.



Usually the "recommended" age for TB is not the real minimum. We did TB Costa Rica when my youngest was 4 and he ziplined with a guide. It used to be more clear, but I you can definitely go below the "recommended" age. He was a good traveler though, and had already done several DCL, including Alaska, so we had a sense of how he would be with the flights and excursions.


----------



## Candycane83

nemofans said:


> Yes Sweet Life: Rome & Sorrento is Tauck Bridges and we are going on that soon.  You should call and ask about age though.  The youngest on our tour is 10 yrs old.  I think 8 may be the minimum.


I did call them this afternoon and she mentioned that the recommended age is 8 but the minimum is 3. She did seem to try to discourage me a bit from booking stating it’s expensive and strenuous for a child. I’d love to hear about your experience on this! I’m still on the fence about whether to go with ABD or Tauck Bridges but that phone call seems to discourage me from booking Tauck bridges.


----------



## Candycane83

laceltris3 said:


> Usually the "recommended" age for TB is not the real minimum. We did TB Costa Rica when my youngest was 4 and he ziplined with a guide. It used to be more clear, but I you can definitely go below the "recommended" age. He was a good traveler though, and had already done several DCL, including Alaska, so we had a sense of how he would be with the flights and excursions.



Yes! The recommended age is 8 but minimum is 3. Costa Rica sounds amazing but not sure I can convince my husband. Lol! Yeah, my son has travelled a bit, we usually have a big trip a year. How did your son enjoy Costa Rica? I’m afraid my son would lose attention on the cultural/ historical elements of the tour if it goes too long for Italy I guess. I’m wondering now about the Italy Switzerland tour!  I’m so undecided.


----------



## nemofans

We also did TB Costa Rica 2 years ago.  My younger DS was 8.  We loved it!


----------



## laceltris3

Costa Rica with TB was amazing, especially for younger kids (mine were 4, 6, and 9 at the time). No museums at all. Zip lining, water slides, boat rides looking for sloths and iguanas and toucans, and a rafting trip that ends up in a water fight for willing participants (there is a "dry" boat too for people who don't want to do it), going to a chocolate factory and the kids getting to make their own chocolate bars!!


----------



## Candycane83

laceltris3 said:


> Costa Rica with TB was amazing, especially for younger kids (mine were 4, 6, and 9 at the time). No museums at all. Zip lining, water slides, boat rides looking for sloths and iguanas and toucans, and a rafting trip that ends up in a water fight for willing participants (there is a "dry" boat too for people who don't want to do it), going to a chocolate factory and the kids getting to make their own chocolate bars!!


Sounds amazing!!


----------



## nemofans

It is!


----------



## FSU Girl

I wanted to post about a couple tour companies I used on my recent trip to the UK. They were all really amazing and not expensive at all. I only did day tours, but they offer longer trips. I used Rabbies and Highland Explorer Tours in Scotland and International Friends in England.


----------



## disneyphx

We did TB Costa Rica too and it was great! Youngest on our trip was 2 (!) plus I think 4 or 5 in the 5-7 range.
Some of the parents of the younger kids were frustrated to not be able to zipline because the kids didnt want to do it.......If your 6 year old thinks it would be cool to zipline, I say go for a Costa Rica trip!
We have done a bunch of ABD but not a pure Italy one even though they sound amazing in some ways - animal loving, thrill seeking DD doesnt gravitate to them. We did do Italy/Switzerland which was a really fun trip - not cities and museums and cathedrals. We also did TB Alpine Adventure which was great too - similar but different. (We love Austria and Switzerland!)
One of the biggest differences we find between TB and ABD is more grandparent/kid combos on TB (lots on CR and Alaska).


----------



## Candycane83

disneyphx said:


> We did TB Costa Rica too and it was great! Youngest on our trip was 2 (!) plus I think 4 or 5 in the 5-7 range.
> Some of the parents of the younger kids were frustrated to not be able to zipline because the kids didnt want to do it.......If your 6 year old thinks it would be cool to zipline, I say go for a Costa Rica trip!
> We have done a bunch of ABD but not a pure Italy one even though they sound amazing in some ways - animal loving, thrill seeking DD doesnt gravitate to them. We did do Italy/Switzerland which was a really fun trip - not cities and museums and cathedrals. We also did TB Alpine Adventure which was great too - similar but different. (We love Austria and Switzerland!)
> One of the biggest differences we find between TB and ABD is more grandparent/kid combos on TB (lots on CR and Alaska).


Which would you recommend for younger kids? The TB or ADB one? I read the description of the TB one and seemed like there were a few restrictions for younger kids. It does fit my dates more though. I looked at the Norway ABD one too which seems a little more adventurous too. 

I’m not sure how my son would like to zip line, he sure likes climbing but seems more on the cautious side right now. Maybe I’ll wait until 2021 for CR! 

 Thanks so much for the feedback.


----------



## disneyphx

Hmmm, I think for younger the ABD trip is slightly better suited.  But if dates are better for TB, I would probably go for it.
The  one 'big' activity is the zip line/ropes course in Zermatt. I can't tell you anything about it - didn't do it because I had hurt my foot - and I was a bad mom and went shopping instead of watching them.....
The pace of those trips is good for a younger kid I think because it is not big cities.


----------



## Rapunzellover

So finishing my first Tauck tour (Portugal) tomorrow.  Some thoughts:

1.  Food was top notch, as were accommodations, coach, and driver.
2.  Love how Tauck does scatter lunches where you are basically given lunch money and it's up to you how to spend it, if you're not that hungry.
3.  Pace was slow, and it was not nearly as strenuous as some ABDs.  But that's the itinerary, not Tauck.  
4.  Really really really dislike the assigned bus seating and rotating.  Very annoying. 
5.  Tour director was great, but two is better than one.  
6.  I felt the director didn't go as above and beyond as adventure guides.  Ex- I wanted to arrange a tour of Fatima, and she sent me to the concierge.  The adventure guides I've had would've gone to the concierge for me to save me time/hassle.  Not a huge issue, but ...

Anyhow, just my thoughts.  Btw, Portugal is amazing and everyone should go.  ABD seriously needs to create a Portugal itinerary.


----------



## Donalyn

I've been hoping for Portugal from ABD.  And land based, not river cruise.


----------



## broadsheet

This thread is so useful, thanks all! I would like to do Costa Rica - it would be my family’s first experience with group tours. I cannot decide between ABD or Tauck Bridges in 2021 (what can I say, I plan ahead!) or NatGeo/G Adventures in 2022. Kids would be 6/9 or 7/10. 

G adventures is so much cheaper and I like the Nat geo tie-in - I just have no clue what to expect. It also looked like a ton of coach time, but maybe that’s just par for the course in CR? 

Thoughts? Someone save me from indecision?


----------



## Rapunzellover

Donalyn said:


> I've been hoping for Portugal from ABD.  And land based, not river cruise.



I waited for ABD.  I had hopes.  A land only is definitely the way to go.  The douro is nice, but.....


----------



## tink1970

Rapunzellover said:


> 4. Really really really dislike the assigned bus seating and rotating. Very annoying.
> 5. Tour director was great, but two is better than one.
> 6. I felt the director didn't go as above and beyond as adventure guides. Ex- I wanted to arrange a tour of Fatima, and she sent me to the concierge. The adventure guides I've had would've gone to the concierge for me to save me time/hassle. Not a huge issue, but ...




Thanks for your report and thoughts! It's funny because I like the rotating-I get motion sick but feel that it's more "fair" than some people taking the same seats over and over. Also, I got to know more people with the rotations (some I'd rather have not, but that's the risk of a tour). 

I also prefer Tauck's single tour director and that they are more hands off. Again, completely personal preference. With some of the recent changes in ABDs (number of guests, more OYO time, focus on places I don't want to visit), I have a feeling that our next two ABDs will be our last and Tauck will be our go to tour operator. 

What were your favorite places in Portugal? And would you return again on your own?


----------



## Candycane83

disneyphx said:


> Hmmm, I think for younger the ABD trip is slightly better suited.  But if dates are better for TB, I would probably go for it.
> The  one 'big' activity is the zip line/ropes course in Zermatt. I can't tell you anything about it - didn't do it because I had hurt my foot - and I was a bad mom and went shopping instead of watching them.....
> The pace of those trips is good for a younger kid I think because it is not big cities.


Thanks!! I was looking for when would be a good time to go to Costa Rica and am thinking about March break next year. My son would be barely 6 though. When did you go? Any suggestions on a good time? 

Edit to add: I saw that the age for zip lining is 8 and above, was there anything for younger kids? Maybe I should wait until he’s 8...


----------



## Candycane83

Sorry I’m all over the place but I wanted to ask what is the difference between river cruises by ABD vs TB? Which is preferred? Any one river cruise that’s better than the other? Or is there another river cruise line that is recommended? With young child


----------



## aggiedog

With a young child, if you want built in activities to keep him occupied, I would stick with companies that do Family Travel trips for river cruises.  To my knowledge that is TB and ABD, though there could be more.  You could always just book a river cruise on your own, but it will be almost all 65+ folks, no adventure guide, etc.  Some river cruise companies don't even let kids sail.  For the TB/ABD river cruises, those companies rent out the entire ship and the entire cruise is dedicated to the Family Trip, if that makes sense.  One difference is you'll have 130+ people on the river cruise (split into smaller groups for excursions) and just your 20-40 on a land based trip.


----------



## Candycane83

aggiedog said:


> With a young child, if you want built in activities to keep him occupied, I would stick with companies that do Family Travel trips for river cruises.  To my knowledge that is TB and ABD, though there could be more.  You could always just book a river cruise on your own, but it will be almost all 65+ folks, no adventure guide, etc.  Some river cruise companies don't even let kids sail.  For the TB/ABD river cruises, those companies rent out the entire ship and the entire cruise is dedicated to the Family Trip, if that makes sense.  One difference is you'll have 130+ people on the river cruise (split into smaller groups for excursions) and just your 20-40 on a land based trip.


Thanks for the insight! I know it’s personal opinion but which is better- ABD or TB in river cruises? I’ve seen on this thread that people seem to like TB better if the same destination is offered on both. Im assuming that extends to river cruises? Or just Europe and Costa Rica?


----------



## aggiedog

I have no clue, as I've done neither myself, at least not with ABD or TB.  Sorry!


----------



## Rapunzellover

tink1970 said:


> Thanks for your report and thoughts! It's funny because I like the rotating-I get motion sick but feel that it's more "fair" than some people taking the same seats over and over. Also, I got to know more people with the rotations (some I'd rather have not, but that's the risk of a tour).
> 
> I also prefer Tauck's single tour director and that they are more hands off. Again, completely personal preference. With some of the recent changes in ABDs (number of guests, more OYO time, focus on places I don't want to visit), I have a feeling that our next two ABDs will be our last and Tauck will be our go to tour operator.
> 
> What were your favorite places in Portugal? And would you return again on your own?



I just thought the seat thing juvenile.  And I agree hands off is fine.  I don't care either way.  But I do want to feel cared for.  Didn't feel as cared for by Tauck.  But only a little less.  I'd still travel again with them in a heartbeat if the Itinerary was right.  

I am Portuguese and would go back to Portugal any time, on my own or with a tour.  I loved it all.  Sintra and Coimbra were the best though.  And The convent of Christ.


----------



## Candycane83

aggiedog said:


> I have no clue, as I've done neither myself, at least not with ABD or TB.  Sorry!


Thanks anyway!!


----------



## lpm23

Candycane83 said:


> Thanks!! I was looking for when would be a good time to go to Costa Rica and am thinking about March break next year. My son would be barely 6 though. When did you go? Any suggestions on a good time?
> 
> Edit to add: I saw that the age for zip lining is 8 and above, was there anything for younger kids? Maybe I should wait until he’s 8...


We did the Costa Rica ABD with 7 and 9 year olds. They could do everything. They were too light to zipline alone but they just did Tandem with a guide and it was great. They were probably also less scared doing it this way.  It was a great trip and they were able to participate in everything. there is a fair bit of bus travel but I think that is just because Costa Rica activities are bit spread out. For what it's worth we saw the Tauck group a bunch of times at the activities we did and also the hotels we stayed at.  The Tauck guide was also one of the local guides that also works for ABD.  We have always gone with ABD- I like the two guide system


----------



## lpm23

Candycane83 said:


> Sorry I’m all over the place but I wanted to ask what is the difference between river cruises by ABD vs TB? Which is preferred? Any one river cruise that’s better than the other? Or is there another river cruise line that is recommended? With young child


I think those two are the best bet with kids. We did ABD Rhine last summer and had a blast with 6 and 8 year old kids.  Plenty of great options the girls loved and every night they had an optional kids dinner.   The kids would have a buffet and could play games with the adventure guides if they didn't feel like doing a sit down dinner. my kids loved this!!


----------



## lpm23

Candycane83 said:


> Thanks!! I was looking for when would be a good time to go to Costa Rica and am thinking about March break next year. My son would be barely 6 though. When did you go? Any suggestions on a good time?
> 
> Edit to add: I saw that the age for zip lining is 8 and above, was there anything for younger kids? Maybe I should wait until he’s 8...


With ABD the age was 6 for zip lining. We had a few 6 and 7 year olds and they had a blast.


----------



## Candycane83

lpm23 said:


> We did the Costa Rica ABD with 7 and 9 year olds. They could do everything. They were too light to zipline alone but they just did Tandem with a guide and it was great. They were probably also less scared doing it this way.  It was a great trip and they were able to participate in everything. there is a fair bit of bus travel but I think that is just because Costa Rica activities are bit spread out. For what it's worth we saw the Tauck group a bunch of times at the activities we did and also the hotels we stayed at.  The Tauck guide was also one of the local guides that also works for ABD.  We have always gone with ABD- I like the two guide system





lpm23 said:


> I think those two are the best bet with kids. We did ABD Rhine last summer and had a blast with 6 and 8 year old kids.  Plenty of great options the girls loved and every night they had an optional kids dinner.   The kids would have a buffet and could play games with the adventure guides if they didn't feel like doing a sit down dinner. my kids loved this!!





lpm23 said:


> With ABD the age was 6 for zip lining. We had a few 6 and 7 year olds and they had a blast.


Sounds awesome!! CR is definitely on my list now, maybe during March break... seems like a great ABD for younger kids! 

I was considering a river cruise then decided against it then am now looking at it again. Hearing your experience makes me really want to do it. The Christmas cruise looks phenomenal and would definitely love to do that and the Rhine! Now to convince my husband and decide on when to go! I still want to explore Europe next year but these are really great advice! I really appreciate your responses, it’s really helpful!


----------



## kaseyC

Rapunzellover said:


> Anyhow, just my thoughts. Btw, Portugal is amazing and everyone should go. ABD seriously needs to create a Portugal itinerary.



Great to hear.  We are headed to Portugal next week for 10 days.   Not an escorted tour but we did use a couple of tour companies for planning most of our day trips, tours and activities.  Splitting most of our time between Lisbon and Porto.


----------



## Candycane83

Sorry, I feel like such a pest but help please?I’m hoping someone could help me compare TB vs ABD for Costa Rica? I’m looking to go March break next year with my husband and 5 year old. TB is longer by a day and is also a little more expensive. Any pros and cons? I looked at the itinerary, it seems TB has more activities? There is also a stay at  Tortuguero. The last hotel for both is the same.


----------



## broadsheet

Candycane83 said:


> Sorry, I feel like such a pest but help please?I’m hoping someone could help me compare TB vs ABD for Costa Rica? I’m looking to go March break next year with my husband and 5 year old. TB is longer by a day and is also a little more expensive. Any pros and cons? I looked at the itinerary, it seems TB has more activities? There is also a stay at  Tortuguero. The last hotel for both is the same.


 Interested in the same thing but with a 6 and 10 year old in 2021!


----------



## laceltris3

I don't think that TB is really more expensive. For one room, 3 guests, it's $3740 (with the child being $3540), and that includes 20 meals (vs 16 for the ABD) and another full day and night. If you add on ABD guide gratuities, which are an additional $140 per person but included on the TB, it's break even or cheaper. More than half of the March dates are already more expensive, and I think even the cheapest is break even once you add in gratuities.

I looked at both itineraries, as both have changed since we did CR. I don't think I would do CR without the visit to Tortuguero.


----------



## nemofans

TB price includes all gratuities which ABD does not.  Once you take a Tauck trip you get a free hotel night b4 or after all your next tours with them.  Plus Tortuguero was the highlight of our TB Costa Rica trip.


----------



## Candycane83

broadsheet said:


> Interested in the same thing but with a 6 and 10 year old in 2021!


 I’ve had a lot of positive feedback on Costa Rica! I was thinking 2021 initially but seems like a good way to start family tours. (At least that’s my excuse, lol) 


laceltris3 said:


> I don't think that TB is really more expensive. For one room, 3 guests, it's $3740 (with the child being $3540), and that includes 20 meals (vs 16 for the ABD) and another full day and night. If you add on ABD guide gratuities, which are an additional $140 per person but included on the TB, it's break even or cheaper. More than half of the March dates are already more expensive, and I think even the cheapest is break even once you add in gratuities.
> 
> I looked at both itineraries, as both have changed since we did CR. I don't think I would do CR without the visit to Tortuguero.


Great point. It does looks cheaper when you break it down that way.  I’m not sure but maybe the agent quoted me in CAD because the price she gave me was 4860 instead of 3740.  I guess that would make sense with the exchange rate. 


nemofans said:


> TB price includes all gratuities which ABD does not.  Once you take a Tauck trip you get a free hotel night b4 or after all your next tours with them.  Plus Tortuguero was the highlight of our TB Costa Rica trip.


Thanks!! That’s a great point and I guess the sum of it all is Tortuguero needs to be the in itinerary!


----------



## disneyphx

We did TB a few years ago based on dates (over New Year). Just looked at both itineraries - TB has changed since we did it. Tortuguero was interesting, so that is a +. I also really loved the chocolatier and lunch near San Jose!
I agree, scanning both, TB seems to have more activities.


----------



## Candycane83

Thanks for the feedback everyone! I put a hold for our spot in March 2020! Now just to make sure DH is ok


----------



## WDWmom08

I am torn between the ABD and Tauck Bridges London/Paris trips.  We have been on two ABD's and have loved both.  However, I really like the theater show that Tauck in it's itinerary has but it seems that the hotels Disney has included are nicer.  The pricing seems to be identical without the current ABD discount and I don't know if we will decide in time to take advantage of that.  Thanks!


----------



## sayhello

WDWmom08 said:


> I am torn between the ABD and Tauck Bridges London/Paris trips.  We have been on two ABD's and have loved both.  However, I really like the theater show that Tauck in it's itinerary has but it seems that the hotels Disney has included are nicer.  The pricing seems to be identical without the current ABD discount and I don't know if we will decide in time to take advantage of that.  Thanks!


You might want to check with Tauck Bridges if the show is guaranteed or if they have the right to substitute another show (shows close, etc).  I'd want to know that before using that as a deciding point between 2 trips.

Sayhello


----------



## WDWmom08

I'm not married to any particular show. The itinerary doesn't specify. My DD is a theater geek and would love to see anything.


----------



## 0FF TO NEVERLAND

I’m considering adventures by Disney also. Looking for Rome Florence Venice. Looks pretty incredible. Me and the wife are going to go. $6000 per person though is a lot not including airfare lol any recommendations for another agency that’s cheaper and good?

I’m also considering a 7 night cruise with Disney for Mediterranean. That’s about 2500pp but doesn’t include the things to do off the ship. Wouldn’t be sure how to get around and if we can actually see what we want. Adding ABD to it is another 2500pp on top. For that price I’d so the normal one and skip the cruise. 

Sigh decisions decisions.


----------



## nemofans

Tauck has a Rome, Florence, Venice trip that ranges from $4700-$6100 depending on what time of year, small group, etc.  We enjoy traveling with them.


----------



## Candycane83

Since we’re now booked for TB Costa Rica, was wondering if it’s worth it to add a day before the tour? I was thinking about it and researched a little. La Paz waterfalls looks nice. Or maybe just a city tour? Wondering what are people’s thoughts on this.

Also, not sure if there’s anyone from Toronto or Canada here. How is flying with Air Transat? 

Thanks again guys!!


----------



## Aelin1977

Candycane83 said:


> Since we’re now booked for TB Costa Rica, was wondering if it’s worth it to add a day before the tour? I was thinking about it and researched a little. La Paz waterfalls looks nice. Or maybe just a city tour? Wondering what are people’s thoughts on this.
> 
> Also, not sure if there’s anyone from Toronto or Canada here. How is flying with Air Transat?
> 
> Thanks again guys!!



We always like to try to add a pre-day on to any trip we do. Helps us acclimatize to the new location and allows a buffer should anything go wrong on the way there.

I'm from Toronto but can't speak to Air Transat. We tend to avoid airlines like Sunwing and Air Transat because if something goes wrong with a plane, they don't have any on hand to replace it with and you'll be delayed until they can fix it.


----------



## Jess_S

For your preday, I highly recommend doing a tour of toucan rescue ranch that includes breakfast. They are a rescue doing great work especially with sloths. At breakfast, they bring out several baby sloths and feed them their bottles while you eat. La Paz was nice too, but super crowded and more of a zoo type experience.


----------



## Candycane83

Aelin1977 said:


> We always like to try to add a pre-day on to any trip we do. Helps us acclimatize to the new location and allows a buffer should anything go wrong on the way there.
> 
> I'm from Toronto but can't speak to Air Transat. We tend to avoid airlines like Sunwing and Air Transat because if something goes wrong with a plane, they don't have any on hand to replace it with and you'll be delayed until they can fix it.



Thanks a lot for the advice! I may just go with Air Canada anyway then as they have flights everyday. (Air Transat only has it every couple of days) The reason I looked at a pre-stay was because Air Canada’s direct flight arrives at 8 at night.  




Jess_S said:


> For your preday, I highly recommend doing a tour of toucan rescue ranch that includes breakfast. They are a rescue doing great work especially with sloths. At breakfast, they bring out several baby sloths and feed them their bottles while you eat. La Paz was nice too, but super crowded and more of a zoo type experience.


Thanks! I think TB goes to the toucan centre already, so I was looking at other options. Nice to know La Paz is more crowded. Maybe we’ll just relax and do a city tour.


----------



## nemofans

Yes, TB goes to the toucan rescue center already.  We flew in the night before, then swam the next day as we wanted our kids to relax before starting the tour.


----------



## Candycane83

nemofans said:


> Yes, TB goes to the toucan rescue center already.  We flew in the night before, then swam the next day as we wanted our kids to relax before starting the tour.


Thanks!! I’m sure my husband and son would both love that idea.


----------



## Jess_S

Candycane83 said:


> Thanks a lot for the advice! I may just go with Air Canada anyway then as they have flights everyday. (Air Transat only has it every couple of days) The reason I looked at a pre-stay was because Air Canada’s direct flight arrives at 8 at night.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks! I think TB goes to the toucan centre already, so I was looking at other options. Nice to know La Paz is more crowded. Maybe we’ll just relax and do a city tour.



I clearly did not check the TB itinerary before making my suggestion. But I agree with nemofans about doing a relaxing day instead. As you probably gathered, we did both Toucan Rescue Ranch and La Paz and I felt like there was no need to do both. Say hi to Jazz the monkey for us when you visit TRR. My son is still talking about him 2 years after our visit.


----------



## Candycane83

Thanks for the responses everyone! 


Jess_S said:


> I clearly did not check the TB itinerary before making my suggestion. But I agree with nemofans about doing a relaxing day instead. As you probably gathered, we did both Toucan Rescue Ranch and La Paz and I felt like there was no need to do both. Say hi to Jazz the monkey for us when you visit TRR. My son is still talking about him 2 years after our visit.


Thanks! My son would love to see monkeys!! Have a question about TB, do they do the transfer from airport to hotel if you don’t book with them? It’s the same hotel but their price is almost double of what I found online booking with the hotel itself.


----------



## carpenta

WE did the tauck TB a couple years ago and loved it. They will pick you up and get you to the hotel so long as you are on the trip I believe but call them they are tops in service. The hotel is a bit of a ride (20 minutes) and I remember the airport being a little "wild" when we emerged. After you book your second trip with them they usually give you a pre or post night free. We just traveled with them on their small ship cruise to Croatia and got a free pre night stay in Venice valued at $960.00. It makes a big difference to us as well as the tips included in the price. We arrived a day early and got a guide with a van through the front desk of the hotel. It cost us $50.00 for the afternoon and he drove us all around taking us to the downtown as well as the opera house, various parks  and capital areas. Really nice guide well versed in the history. Waited for us in the van while we toured as well as came and narrated for us. Really nice day spent. Love the chocolate tour as well as the rescue animal visit. The best is the rain forest "huts" and volcano heated pools at the second hotel as well as zip lining. Any questions I will try to answer.


----------



## Candycane83

carpenta said:


> WE did the tauck TB a couple years ago and loved it. They will pick you up and get you to the hotel so long as you are on the trip I believe but call them they are tops in service. The hotel is a bit of a ride (20 minutes) and I remember the airport being a little "wild" when we emerged. After you book your second trip with them they usually give you a pre or post night free. We just traveled with them on their small ship cruise to Croatia and got a free pre night stay in Venice valued at $960.00. It makes a big difference to us as well as the tips included in the price. We arrived a day early and got a guide with a van through the front desk of the hotel. It cost us $50.00 for the afternoon and he drove us all around taking us to the downtown as well as the opera house, various parks  and capital areas. Really nice guide well versed in the history. Waited for us in the van while we toured as well as came and narrated for us. Really nice day spent. Love the chocolate tour as well as the rescue animal visit. The best is the rain forest "huts" and volcano heated pools at the second hotel as well as zip lining. Any questions I will try to answer.


Thanks!!! This gets me really excited! This will be our first trip with TB. I did book a pre-day and post day. I found a cheaper price for preday and our flight lands at almost 10pm so I thought it would be better just to book the cheaper rate. Thank you for the tip on just booking with the front desk. I think I’ll just do that if we feel like it for the day.  question about tips... I know it’s included but do people usually tip more?  also, do you know if we need to bring bug spray?  what did you find most important to pack? Lol! Sorry for the hundred and one questions!


----------



## nemofans

I don't think TB will pick you up a day early if you didn't book your pre stay with them.  You should check with them on that.  It was hectic at the airport, but pick up service was wonderful.  While we were in the immigration line, our TB person went to baggage claim and got all our luggage for us.


----------



## Candycane83

nemofans said:


> I don't think TB will pick you up a day early if you didn't book your pre stay with them.  You should check with them on that.  It was hectic at the airport, but pick up service was wonderful.  While we were in the immigration line, our TB person went to baggage claim and got all our luggage for us.


I’ll be sure to ask them before I cancel. Might be worthwhile just paying more for this. Thanks!


----------



## Rapunzellover

nemofans said:


> I don't think TB will pick you up a day early if you didn't book your pre stay with them.  You should check with them on that.  It was hectic at the airport, but pick up service was wonderful.  While we were in the immigration line, our TB person went to baggage claim and got all our luggage for us.



Just did a regular Tauck tour to Portugal and booked a pre-day through booking.com.  Tauck picked me up at the airport cause it was the same hotel.


----------



## nemofans

That's good to hear they still pick you up.


----------



## Candycane83

Rapunzellover said:


> Just did a regular Tauck tour to Portugal and booked a pre-day through booking.com.  Tauck picked me up at the airport cause it was the same hotel.


Awesome! Thanks so much for the information!! I’ll definitely give them a call soon!


----------



## Bobo912

Candycane83 said:


> Thanks!!! This gets me really excited! This will be our first trip with TB. I did book a pre-day and post day. I found a cheaper price for preday and our flight lands at almost 10pm so I thought it would be better just to book the cheaper rate. Thank you for the tip on just booking with the front desk. I think I’ll just do that if we feel like it for the day.  question about tips... I know it’s included but do people usually tip more?  also, do you know if we need to bring bug spray?  what did you find most important to pack? Lol! Sorry for the hundred and one questions!



I've been on two TB trips.  I don't believe anyone tipped the guides, although they were very good.  In my opinion, that would be like tipping the your servers in restaurants and bell service in the hotels on an ABD.  It's inlcuded, so it's not necessary, unless they do something completely above and beyond for your personally.


----------



## Candycane83

Bobo912 said:


> I've been on two TB tips.  I don't believe anyone tipped the guides, although they were very good.  In my opinion, that would be like tipping the your servers in restaurants and bell service in the hotels on an ABD.  It's inlcuded, so it's not necessary.


Thanks for the info! That’s great to know! Is tipping restaurants and bell service on TB not included? I didn’t think about that until now that you mentioned it!


----------



## Dis_Yoda

Candycane83 said:


> Thanks for the info! That’s great to know! Is tipping restaurants and bell service on TB not included? I didn’t think about that until now that you mentioned it!


It’s included.

I know on regular Tauck tours - we tipped our guides.


----------



## carpenta

The only tips not included are meals on your own. I personally tipped the local guide that accompanied us for our trip west for he really was great and could use the money for his family. Never felt any pressure at all. Also when we went on our personal trip before the group met we did tip. Otherwise all tips are included. Good deal.


----------



## Candycane83

carpenta said:


> The only tips not included are meals on your own. I personally tipped the local guide that accompanied us for our trip west for he really was great and could use the money for his family. Never felt any pressure at all. Also when we went on our personal trip before the group met we did tip. Otherwise all tips are included. Good deal.


Great to know! Thanks again for your help!  I’m so excited I’m telling my DS about it already! Did you have young children during your trip? I’m just wondering about the zip lining... it would be great if they let my son who is 5 participate even if he has to go in tandem with me or the guide.  was there any other activities that a 5 year old may not be able to participate in?


----------



## carpenta

In my opinion a 5 year old would be interested in most activities so long as he has an attention span. Say the chocolate stop the presenters are quite entertaining so it was really fun. The rain forest animal sighting is cool traveling through the rivers trying to spot wild animals. Take a set of binoculars they really come in handy. Of course the animal rescue will be awesome. The hot pools have no life guards so he can not be left alone. Take water shoes for the beach on the west coast as well as the river float. The zip line I don't know about the weight issue and you need to be able to control when you come to slow down and stop. I did not see a tandem rider so I would call on that. There are a couple of curvy bus rides where some people got queasy so maybe an I pad to keep him occupied not focused on the winding roads. On our trip we went down the river with crocs staring at us from the sides so he may think that's "cool" or frightening depending on your child. All in all I don't see why he cannot participate in all or most of the activities. He may even turn into the trip mascot. lol.


----------



## Bobo912

carpenta, did TB use Sky Trek for the zip lining?  That is the company ABD used, and we had some smaller kids who went tandem with parents or guides.


----------



## Candycane83

carpenta said:


> In my opinion a 5 year old would be interested in most activities so long as he has an attention span. Say the chocolate stop the presenters are quite entertaining so it was really fun. The rain forest animal sighting is cool traveling through the rivers trying to spot wild animals. Take a set of binoculars they really come in handy. Of course the animal rescue will be awesome. The hot pools have no life guards so he can not be left alone. Take water shoes for the beach on the west coast as well as the river float. The zip line I don't know about the weight issue and you need to be able to control when you come to slow down and stop. I did not see a tandem rider so I would call on that. There are a couple of curvy bus rides where some people got queasy so maybe an I pad to keep him occupied not focused on the winding roads. On our trip we went down the river with crocs staring at us from the sides so he may think that's "cool" or frightening depending on your child. All in all I don't see why he cannot participate in all or most of the activities. He may even turn into the trip mascot. lol.


Oh that sounds wonderful! Even I’m excited as a 5 year old! Lol! I’ll probably bring some medication for the bus for him. He gets car sick sometimes but he usually is ok if he sleeps. I did ask about the tandem and the agent said she thinks they will be able to accommodate but wasn’t entirely sure. She did give me the minimum weight and I barely make that lol! I’ll have to ask again. Thanks for the binocular tip! I’ll have to wait for Black Friday or cyber Monday or Boxing Day to find one!  thanks so much for your tips!!  really really appreciate it!


----------



## Candycane83

Bobo912 said:


> carpenta, did TB use Sky Trek for the zip lining?  That is the company ABD used, and we had some smaller kids who went tandem with parents or guides.


I read Tauck’s pamphlet from 2019 and it did say Sky Trek for zip lining.  yay! The only changes from 2019 to 2020 is a hotel change and the activity on the last day.


----------



## nemofans

Definitely bring bug spray.  Both my kids got zika virus while there.  Luckily it just appeared as an itchy rash and nothing else.  Also bring water shoes for the river float/water fight.  The bus ride to Arenal caused both my son and me to get rather queasy.  I found that peppermint essential oil helped us a ton.  I just put a few drops on my hands and rubbed together.  The smell stifled the queasiness as well as looking up at the ceiling of the bus most of the way.  Tips are completely taken care of for the whole trip for everyone.  In Costa Rica you won't have on your own time either to worry about tipping.


----------



## Candycane83

nemofans said:


> Definitely bring bug spray.  Both my kids got zika virus while there.  Luckily it just appeared as an itchy rash and nothing else.  Also bring water shoes for the river float/water fight.  The bus ride to Arenal caused both my son and me to get rather queasy.  I found that peppermint essential oil helped us a ton.  I just put a few drops on my hands and rubbed together.  The smell stifled the queasiness as well as looking up at the ceiling of the bus most of the way.  Tips are completely taken care of for the whole trip for everyone.  In Costa Rica you won't have on your own time either to worry about tipping.


Thanks!! I will definitely bring a lot of bug spray! And water shoes! Great tip on the peppermint oil, I’ll make sure to get some as well as bring some Gravol. That’s great about tipping! Thanks again! Really looking forward to this trip!


----------



## Chrissy-Mickey

I enjoy reading all your suggestions and comparing different companies. Today I came across one I haven't heard of before: Friendly Planet Travel. Does anyone have experience with them.


----------



## Aelin1977

Chrissy-Mickey said:


> I enjoy reading all your suggestions and comparing different companies. Today I came across one I haven't heard of before: Friendly Planet Travel. Does anyone have experience with them.



Never heard of them. We're trying Wildland Adventures next year after some rather disappointing experiences with Nat Geo.


----------



## BluesTraveler

Aelin1977 said:


> Never heard of them. We're trying Wildland Adventures next year after some rather disappointing experiences with Nat Geo.


What didn't you like about Nat Geo?


----------



## Aelin1977

BluesTraveler said:


> What didn't you like about Nat Geo?



We've had issues with them on 2 separate trips. On the first of these 2 trips it was  during the planning phase with constantly getting inaccurate and incorrect information. We ended up doing most of the research ourselves and then they used it for future trips. 

On the second trip we just did, our trip manager changed three times from the time of booking to the time the trip rolled around without any warning from Nat Geo. Also, on this most recent trip, our itinerary stated a tour that was to take place at 1:00pm on arrival day, our Nat Geo rep confirmed this tour and time twice between the time they met us at the airport and the time they dropped us off but when the tour time came, no one showed up. The tour was never booked. These were 2 separate trips, both bucket list trips and both private. One was a custom designed trip while the other was a set trip that had been modified due to unforeseen circumstances with one of the hotels we were originally booked into.


----------



## BluesTraveler

Aelin1977 said:


> We've had issues with them on 2 separate trips. On the first of these 2 trips it was  during the planning phase with constantly getting inaccurate and incorrect information. We ended up doing most of the research ourselves and then they used it for future trips.
> 
> On the second trip we just did, our trip manager changed three times from the time of booking to the time the trip rolled around without any warning from Nat Geo. Also, on this most recent trip, our itinerary stated a tour that was to take place at 1:00pm on arrival day, our Nat Geo rep confirmed this tour and time twice between the time they met us at the airport and the time they dropped us off but when the tour time came, no one showed up. The tour was never booked. These were 2 separate trips, both bucket list trips and both private. One was a custom designed trip while the other was a set trip that had been modified due to unforeseen circumstances with one of the hotels we were originally booked into.


Yes, that would be enough to turn me off of them as well.


----------



## Calfan

We are recently back from our Secluded Botswana Safari with Natural Habitat Adventures, and it was fantastic!  I have nothing but positive feedback regarding Nat Hab and would (will!) definitely travel with them again.  Their itineraries are geared toward nature and wildlife, so you won't find trips to big cities with city tours, museums, etc., but for their niche, they will be my go to for future trips.  There are a number of Nat Hab itineraries I am eyeing for future trips, including South Africa/Botswana, Tanzania, Gorilla trekking, Iceland, Alaska, Costa Rica and the Brazilian Pantanal.  Here is what I really liked about traveling with Nat Hab:

--We had only 7 in our group, and this is the maximum Nat Hab will take for the Secluded Botswana itinerary.  This ensures that everyone in the group can ride in a single safari vehicle and that everyone gets a *window* seat.  (Nat Hab uses open air safari vehicles, and in Botswana, there was not even a roof canopy, so our views were not impeded in any way.)   Using only one safari vehicle also eliminates any possibility for FOMO on what other vehicles might be seeing (maybe only a concern in my mind, but it is real, lol) and also meant that we didn't have more than one vehicle from our tour trying to view the same wildlife at the same time.  

--Our expedition leader, Francis, was amazing.  He is from Botswana and knew so much about the country's history, economy, etc. and, of course, the flora and fauna of the area.  He was an incredible wildlife tracker.  He was also very patient with requests for bathroom breaks while out on our safari drives (looking at 14yo DS on that one, but also myself a few times) and always found us a suitable termite mound for privacy, lol.  He made a huge effort to ensure we saw a leopard on our last full day in Botswana, and that was real highlight of the trip (but among way too many highlights to even count).  We could always tell when Francis had spotted an animal that was a *find* by his "Oh" exclamation and his flooring of the safari vehicle, lol.  He definitely took us on a few wild rides!

--We also had a trip coordinator, Tilley, who handled logistics behind the scenes and was also in charge of planning *events* which usually took the form of surprising us with a bush lunch or dinner following one of our game drives or showing up in the middle of the bush for our sundowner drinks.  And as soon as she found out I was a cider drinker, she ensured that cider was included in every sundowner cooler!

--This could be unique to Africa as opposed to a feature of all Nat Hab trips, but all of our food and beverages were included in this trip.  And we were usually fed 6 times a day, lol (breakfast before an early morning game drive, a mid-morning tea break during the morning game drive, lunch, afternoon tea before heading out on our afternoon game drive, appetizers with our sundowner drinks while on our afternoon game drive, and dinner).  Beverages included soda, juices, beer, wine and liquor, and were unlimited.  Each of the safari camps had a fridge and liquor cabinet that we had free access to at any time.  This included beer, wine, sodas, mixers and hard alcohol.  The food was absolutely fantastic, showcasing local game and so many fresh fruits and vegetables (and always with a vegetarian main course option).  I am missing our safari camp cuisine in a big way!

--We never handled our larger bags while we were on safari.   Upon arriving at a new safari camp, our bags would be waiting in our tents for us, and upon leaving a camp, we simply left our packed bags in our rooms, and they were collected for us.  

--In 2 of our 4 safari camps, we were the only group there.  And we were treated so well by all of the camp staff.  In the other camp in Botswana, we had one side of the camp exclusively for our group, and there were only 2 gentlemen occupying the other side during our stay.  We only saw them in passing.  Our camp in Zambia was a bit larger and had other guests, but we were only there for 2 nights before heading into Botswana for 9 nights.  In every camp, we received handwritten notes from the camp staff and from Nat Hab.  We definitely felt very valued.  In Toka Leya Camp in Zambia, my DD and I each received a gift of a traditional cloth used by Zambian women.  We all received a pin on our final night.  Pre-departure, we had each received Nat Hab water bottles and were each able to select a gift like a hat or t-shirt.  We also received 2 travel wallets with our pre-departure packages.

Those are the highlights I can think of.  And I really can't come up with a single negative about Nat Hab or the trip,  It was that incredible.  Happy to answer questions....


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Calfan said:


> We are recently back from our Secluded Botswana Safari with Natural Habitat Adventures, and it was fantastic!  I have nothing but positive feedback regarding Nat Hab and would (will!) definitely travel with them again.  Their itineraries are geared toward nature and wildlife, so you won't find trips to big cities with city tours, museums, etc., but for their niche, they will be my go to for future trips.  There are a number of Nat Hab itineraries I am eyeing for future trips, including South Africa/Botswana, Tanzania, Gorilla trekking, Iceland, Alaska, Costa Rica and the Brazilian Pantanal.  Here is what I really liked about traveling with Nat Hab:
> 
> --We had only 7 in our group, and this is the maximum Nat Hab will take for the Secluded Botswana itinerary.  This ensures that everyone in the group can ride in a single safari vehicle and that everyone gets a *window* seat.  (Nat Hab uses open air safari vehicles, and in Botswana, there was not even a roof canopy, so our views were not impeded in any way.)   Using only one safari vehicle also eliminates any possibility for FOMO on what other vehicles might be seeing (maybe only a concern in my mind, but it is real, lol) and also meant that we didn't have more than one vehicle from our tour trying to view the same wildlife at the same time.
> 
> --Our expedition leader, Francis, was amazing.  He is from Botswana and knew so much about the country's history, economy, etc. and, of course, the flora and fauna of the area.  He was an incredible wildlife tracker.  He was also very patient with requests for bathroom breaks while out on our safari drives (looking at 14yo DS on that one, but also myself a few times) and always found us a suitable termite mound for privacy, lol.  He made a huge effort to ensure we saw a leopard on our last full day in Botswana, and that was real highlight of the trip (but among way too many highlights to even count).  We could always tell when Francis had spotted an animal that was a *find* by his "Oh" exclamation and his flooring of the safari vehicle, lol.  He definitely took us on a few wild rides!
> 
> --We also had a trip coordinator, Tilley, who handled logistics behind the scenes and was also in charge of planning *events* which usually took the form of surprising us with a bush lunch or dinner following one of our game drives or showing up in the middle of the bush for our sundowner drinks.  And as soon as she found out I was a cider drinker, she ensured that cider was included in every sundowner cooler!
> 
> --This could be unique to Africa as opposed to a feature of all Nat Hab trips, but all of our food and beverages were included in this trip.  And we were usually fed 6 times a day, lol (breakfast before an early morning game drive, a mid-morning tea break during the morning game drive, lunch, afternoon tea before heading out on our afternoon game drive, appetizers with our sundowner drinks while on our afternoon game drive, and dinner).  Beverages included soda, juices, beer, wine and liquor, and were unlimited.  Each of the safari camps had a fridge and liquor cabinet that we had free access to at any time.  This included beer, wine, sodas, mixers and hard alcohol.  The food was absolutely fantastic, showcasing local game and so many fresh fruits and vegetables (and always with a vegetarian main course option).  I am missing our safari camp cuisine in a big way!
> 
> --We never handled our larger bags while we were on safari.   Upon arriving at a new safari camp, our bags would be waiting in our tents for us, and upon leaving a camp, we simply left our packed bags in our rooms, and they were collected for us.
> 
> --In 2 of our 4 safari camps, we were the only group there.  And we were treated so well by all of the camp staff.  In the other camp in Botswana, we had one side of the camp exclusively for our group, and there were only 2 gentlemen occupying the other side during our stay.  We only saw them in passing.  Our camp in Zambia was a bit larger and had other guests, but we were only there for 2 nights before heading into Botswana for 9 nights.  In every camp, we received handwritten notes from the camp staff and from Nat Hab.  We definitely felt very valued.  In Toka Leya Camp in Zambia, my DD and I each received a gift of a traditional cloth used by Zambian women.  We all received a pin on our final night.  Pre-departure, we had each received Nat Hab water bottles and were each able to select a gift like a hat or t-shirt.  We also received 2 travel wallets with our pre-departure packages.
> 
> Those are the highlights I can think of.  And I really can't come up with a single negative about Nat Hab or the trip,  It was that incredible.  Happy to answer questions....


Wow, it really does sound amazing and love the review. I was going to ask via email but I figured others might be interested .... what were the camps like on terms of luxury/stars and how much customization of ibtinerary did you do? Did you like your fellow travelers? Were all three together? Kids? How does it differ from ABDs trip in terms of activities? I.e. did you mostly/only do safaris? I guess I’m wondering whether this would be good for a first timer or whether ABD would be a better intro and this better for second?


----------



## Calfan

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> Wow, it really does sound amazing and love the review. I was going to ask via email but I figured others might be interested .... what were the camps like on terms of luxury/stars and how much customization of ibtinerary did you do? Did you like your fellow travelers? Were all three together? Kids? How does it differ from ABDs trip in terms of activities? I.e. did you mostly/only do safaris? I guess I’m wondering whether this would be good for a first timer or whether ABD would be a better intro and this better for second?



I thought the camps were fantastic, and I loved all of them.  For those on FB, I just posted pictures of our first camp, which was in Zambia and had the most amenities (like a gym, a spa, an espresso machine and also heating and air conditioning).  I'll also try to get some pics up on Insta and will continue to post pics of the camps as I make my way through our trip on social media.  In my mind, these were all 5* camps but I'm sure there are some over-the-top safari camps out there that I haven't seen.  To be honest, though, I'm not sure I'd want or need any more than we had in terms of luxury.  We felt VERY well taken care of, and the camps all felt very authentic and intimate.  DD and I shared a tent at every camp.  I really really miss the beds in these safari camps!!!  I don't know what makes them so comfortable, but I slept like a baby.  Something about piles of blankets (since it got into the 30s overnight) and a hot water bottle placed in your bed at turndown and nothing but the sounds of wildlife and total darkness make for a great night's sleep (with the caveat of a 6am wakeup call every morning for the early game drive).  All of the tents had en suite bathroom and shower.   Our last camp was the most rustic, and the shower and sink were salt water, so we were advised to brush our teeth with mineral water that was provided.  We always had a flask of drinking water in our room in all of the camps that was refilled at least twice a day, and each camp had a water dispenser in the central area to fill water bottles as needed (and Tilly usually collected and filled the water bottles for us).  Nat Hab does NOT believe in dispesning plastic water bottles! 

We did not really do any customization of the itinerary.  Safari life follows a certain pattern, which was true of our 10 days in Botswana.  Early wakeup and breakfast before the first game drive starting at around 7am.  We'd usually get back to camp from that drive at around 11:30am (and would have made a stop for tea somewhere in the bush around 9:30 or 10am).  Lunch was usually at noon or 12:30, then we'd have a few hours to chill, shower, have a beer or cider, whatever, before tea at 3:30pm (which always included a savory item, a sweet item and a fruit item).  Then the afternoon/evening game drive starting at 4pm, with a return around 7pm and including a stop in the bush somewhere for our sundowner cocktails and sunset viewing.  Dinner was usually between 7 and 7:30. I forgot to mention in my review of the food, that at lunch there was always homemade, dense, hearty, awesome bread!!!  We usually went to bed on the earlier side because we knew that 6am wakeup call was coming!  The pattern was a little different at our 2nd camp in Botswana because this was more water-focused.  So we did a couple of boat rides and also an outing in dugout, mokoro canoes.  On our second afternoon there, our guide gave us the choice of another mokoro outing or a boat outing, and the group chose the boat.  But really the main activity is game viewing, either on water or on land, and there aren't ABD activities like scone making, for example.  But they kept managing to surprise us by moving the locations of our lunches and dinners around, either within the camps or in the bush, which was a really nice touch.

Our group got along great. It was the four of us, a couple in their mid-sixties from Arizona who were very well-traveled and very active (only CaliforniaGirl will get this reference, but they reminded me a lot of Don and Nancy) and a single woman from Walnut Creek, CA (where we used to live!) who was treating herself for her 50th birthday.  This was NOT a family trip.  We specifically chose not to do a family trip, because we really didn't want to be traveling with any kids younger than teens.  I think we might have hit the jackpot on group though, because there was a Nat Hab group following us (they would arrive at an airstrip as we were leaving it), and that was a much older-looking demographic.  (I suspect Nat Hab had a hand in placing travelers into our group; Thomson does this as well.)

This was a hard core safari trip, so in terms of whether it would be good for a first-timer, it really depends on what you are looking for.  We did visit Victoria Falls and visit a village, but other than that, it was all safari camps and game viewing.  I could do that forever, but it might not be for everyone.  Those who have done the South Africa ABD are probably better equipped to comment, but that trip seems to me to be about 2/3 other activities and 1/3 safari camp.  I personally would not like that ratio (I'd want more safari camp time), but I get that South Africa has other things to do like Cape Town, the wine region (not of interest to me at all since we don't drink wine) and the Cape and penguins.  I would definitely like to do some of those things, but would probably skew one third to those things and two-thirds to safari park time.  I think our next Africa trip might be Nat Hab's South Africa/Botswana trip that hits Kruger and Sabi Sands in South Africa and a park in southern Botswana (we were in the northern half this trip), and I would add on a few days for Cape Town, and the Cape of Good Hope. 

One caution I would give to anyone considering a safari trip is the need for absolute silence at times in the safari vehicle. The guide will often stop the vehicle and turn off the engine, listening for sounds that suggest a predator is near, so they can track a lion or leopard.  The guide won't be able to track well if folks can't keep quiet in the vehicle.  Also, lions come REALLY close to the vehicle (at one point, I think DD could have reached down from the back row of the jeep and touched the head of a passing lion) and it is imperative that everyone be quiet so as not to draw unwanted attention.  For the most part, the lions don't fear the vehicles because they aren't typically hunted by being shot from a vehicle (and so aren't aggressive toward the vehicles); they've learned it's man on two feet who is the threat. But these are in no way, shape or form domesticated or tame animals.  (You can see blood on the mouths of some of them in my pictures.)  Thus the need not to draw unwanted attention.  There was one instance where we came upon a pair of lions, and it was the rare case that there were 2 other safari vehicles there (mostly it was just us).   I really thought a couple of the occupants of the other vehicles might have a heart attack. They looked so petrified to be in such close proximity to the lions.  So that is one thing to consider.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Thanks so much @Calfan, that is great. And I do get the reference --they sound awesome. You know D&N are two of my faves. It sounds as if this might be a trip to do without DS22 (who has Tourettes, LOL). He can keep quiet, but not for long and not reliably. It sounds like an amazing trip, and I'll definitely check out FB!


----------



## aggiedog

We're back from our Off the Beaten Path Yellowstone and Glacier NP trip.  We had a great trip, and I'd definitely recommend OBP.

Short description - we decided relatively late, maybe 2 months prior to traveling, to do a multigenerational family trip.  OBP was very helpful, and fast, with a suggested itinerary, actually steering me away from some things, and towards others given our time and the geography of the area.  It was unguided, but with all lodging arranged, and an activity scheduled every other day (wildlife guide and kayaking in Yellowstone, river float in Great Falls, Blackfeet cultural discussion, guided hike and whitewater rafting in Glacier.) We changed hotels every 2 days, though could have done differently as desired.  The lodging was all good to great, and conveniently located.  Our activities were excellent with the exception of our guided hike (the guide was unenthusiastic and unprepared, THAT went in our final trip review) and the first day, when OBP gave our wildlife guide the wrong pickup location 90 minutes away.  We finally figured out why he was late for our 6:30am meeting time, bagged the guide after a discussion with him, and Kelsea, our OBP rep who took full responsibility, found us an excellent guide for the next day.  Two weeks prior to the trip, we received a 120 page bound booklet with all the information we could need - times, dates, places, directions, suggested dining and activities, local geographical interesting areas, etc, along with OBP hats and luggage tags for everyone, and a Montana map with our route highlighted.

While I am usually the trip planner for our family, it was nice to have someone else do the lion's share of the work.  It was $3,000/person for 11 days, not including rental car, some meals, and tips.  We paid about $100/person total in tips over the trip.  Five lunches and 2 breakfasts were included, and we brought a cooler to keep groceries for breakfasts and many lunches as we traveled from location to location.  While I'm sure I could have done it cheaper myself, I could not have done it that well in that short of time with what else was going in my life at that point.


----------



## Rapunzellover

Calfan-  I'm so glad to hear you mention the need for silence during safaris.  I'm extremely reluctant to do one for that reason.  I can not talk but I fear a sudden coughing fit or sneeze attack (I have allergies that I can only do so much to control).  You are reinforcing my decision.


----------



## Calfan

Rapunzellover said:


> Calfan-  I'm so glad to hear you mention the need for silence during safaris.  I'm extremely reluctant to do one for that reason.  I can not talk but I fear a sudden coughing fit or sneeze attack (I have allergies that I can only do so much to control).  You are reinforcing my decision.



Well, I don’t want to confuse the issue, but I do think you would be fine with an occasional sneeze or cough. Absolute silence isn’t required every second in the safari vehicle. We had conversations, etc., including low-voiced or whispered ones even around lions.  It’s just important to be able to keep quiet when circumstances require and not scream or shriek in excitement or have loud outbursts like little kids are prone to do.


----------



## Rapunzellover

Calfan said:


> Well, I don’t want to confuse the issue, but I do think you would be fine with an occasional sneeze or cough. Absolute silence isn’t required every second in the safari vehicle. We had conversations, etc., including low-voiced or whispered ones even around lions.  It’s just important to be able to keep quiet when circumstances require and not scream or shriek in excitement or have loud outbursts like little kids are prone to do.



Oh, good.  I'm a loud sneezer/cougher though.  Lol... I keep picturing something like Scooby Doo and Shaggy hiding from a ghost, and Scooby sneezes and the ghost attacks them.  But with lions and tigers.


----------



## Aelin1977

Rapunzellover said:


> Oh, good.  I'm a loud sneezer/cougher though.  Lol... I keep picturing something like Scooby Doo and Shaggy hiding from a ghost, and Scooby sneezes and the ghost attacks them.  But with lions and tigers.



Low conversation is definitely fine. As is coughing and sneezing. I actually had a cold when we were in Africa last year and I get really bad chest coughs when I get sick. I would go on coughing fits periodically and it didn't alter the experience at all. What they don't want is kids yelling and screaming. The last night we were out at our first bushcamp, there was another truck out from our lodge (we had a private driver/vehicle) and there were kids in the truck playing on ipads, screeching and such and the guide was constantly telling the parents to keep the kids quiet, which they never did. We were trying to find a lioness at the time.


----------



## Calfan

Rapunzellover said:


> Oh, good.  I'm a loud sneezer/cougher though.  Lol... I keep picturing something like Scooby Doo and Shaggy hiding from a ghost, and Scooby sneezes and the ghost attacks them.  But with lions and tigers.





Aelin1977 said:


> Low conversation is definitely fine. As is coughing and sneezing. I actually had a cold when we were in Africa last year and I get really bad chest coughs when I get sick. I would go on coughing fits periodically and it didn't alter the experience at all. What they don't want is kids yelling and screaming. *The last night we were out at our first bushcamp, there was another truck out from our lodge (we had a private driver/vehicle) and there were kids in the truck playing on ipads, screeching and such and the guide was constantly telling the parents to keep the kids quiet, which they never did. We were trying to find a lioness at the time.*



Yes, the part I bolded in the post above is the main concern.  Sorry if I overstated it in my initial review.  The lions don't seem to fear the safari vehicles, so a random sneeze or cough or even low conversation isn't going to prompt an attack, lol.  It's really just loud, sudden outbursts that should be avoided when in the presence of lions (no tigers in Africa, so you don't need to worry about them!).  And the safari experience will be better if some self-control/discipline can be exercised to allow the guides to do their tracking, which sometimes requires quiet so they can listen for telltale sounds.


----------



## Rapunzellover

Calfan said:


> Sorry if I overstated it in my initial review.



Lol...you didn't.  I've overstated it in my own mind.


----------



## disneyphx

Botswana sounds and looks fabulous. And great to hear about someone else on NatHab - they have several trips that are now on my bucket list!
When we did the South Africa ABD, our daughter was 6 which was the minimum age. Turns out, that age is set by the private reserve for all guests as presumably kids that age and older will quiet down when asked. And our guide made clear if she did not listen and comply, there would be no more game drives. Fortunately she is a rule follower and did not test him.....


----------



## Aelin1977

disneyphx said:


> Botswana sounds and looks fabulous. And great to hear about someone else on NatHab - they have several trips that are now on my bucket list!
> When we did the South Africa ABD, our daughter was 6 which was the minimum age. Turns out, that age is set by the private reserve for all guests as presumably kids that age and older will quiet down when asked. And our guide made clear if she did not listen and comply, there would be no more game drives. Fortunately she is a rule follower and did not test him.....



Where we stayed in Zambia last year and are staying again next year, they have an age policy if you want to stay out at one of the small bushcamps. At the main lodge, if you want to do walking safaris, then the children have to be 12 and older. Younger children can only ride in vehicles. At the outer camps, they will take children 12 and over but if you want to take children younger than 12, you have to book out the entire camp and book a private guide and truck to travel with the children in their own vehicle if the adults want to do walking safaris.


----------



## Aelin1977

Calfan said:


> It's really just loud, sudden outbursts that should be avoided when in the presence of lions (no tigers in Africa, so you don't need to worry about them!).



No tigers but there are leopards. I saw 3 in my ten days in Zambia.


----------



## Calfan

Aelin1977 said:


> No tigers but there are leopards. I saw 3 in my ten days in Zambia.



Yes, leopards!


----------



## sayhello

Aelin1977 said:


> No tigers but there are leopards. I saw 3 in my ten days in Zambia.


At first I thought it said you saw 3 in your TENT in Zambia!!  

Sayhello


----------



## Aelin1977

sayhello said:


> At first I thought it said you saw 3 in your TENT in Zambia!!
> 
> Sayhello



No, none in the tent lol. We did find a paw print in the dirt outside our tent one morning though. The camp is open to the animals so no one can leave their tent on their own unescorted after dark. We also had a hippo on the lawn at the main lodge that the bush camp belonged to. The staff at the main lodge told us that they had to move one couple one night because they couldn't access their chalet since there were 3 lions camped right outside.


----------



## KEK1

This thread is fabulous,  thanks to all who contributed! Read it all  
We are going to China next year (couple 30,40 no kids). Initially was looking at private but we are a bit introverted and I don't want to talk to guides the whole time. Looking for a tour that has more scenic/natural beauty, hikes etc. G adventures had some options, but am concerned about the level of the accommodation being too basic. Does anyone have any suggestions? (3-4kishmark ideally start/end shanghai/ Hong Kong to do parks..)
TIA


----------



## Aelin1977

We were looking at this tour company when we were considering China China Odyssey Tours. National Geographic also has a variety of trips. They have a few Journeys which are run by G Adventures but with better accommodations. Nat Geo China Trips


----------



## sayhello

KEK1 said:


> This thread is fabulous,  thanks to all who contributed! Read it all
> We are going to China next year (couple 30,40 no kids). Initially was looking at private but we are a bit introverted and I don't want to talk to guides the whole time. Looking for a tour that has more scenic/natural beauty, hikes etc. G adventures had some options, but am concerned about the level of the accommodation being too basic. Does anyone have any suggestions? (3-4kishmark ideally start/end shanghai/ Hong Kong to do parks..)
> TIA


Depending on how long you're looking for your trip to be, you might want to check out OAT (Overseas Adventure Travel).  I have a friend who traveled with them to China & really enjoyed it.  But the trip is 22 days long.  I think it tends to attract retirees a lot.  

https://www.oattravel.com/trips/sma...neraries?icid=global:itineraries:asia:ya42020

Sayhello


----------



## KEK1

Aelin1977 said:


> We were looking at this tour company when we were considering China China Odyssey Tours. National Geographic also has a variety of trips. They have a few Journeys which are run by G Adventures but with better accommodations. Nat Geo China Trips


Thanks for the reply! I like the look of the scenic tours from China Odyssesy , I might ask them for a quote. It is private touring though. Can compare it to the other company I asked. Nat Geo tours don't seem to have any that concentrate on the scenery, interestingly. The G adventures only seemed to have one with "upgraded " accommodations (not super fussy, just don't really want to stay in someone's house..)


----------



## KEK1

sayhello said:


> Depending on how long you're looking for your trip to be, you might want to check out OAT (Overseas Adventure Travel).  I have a friend who traveled with them to China & really enjoyed it.  But the trip is 22 days long.  I think it tends to attract retirees a lot.
> 
> https://www.oattravel.com/trips/sma...neraries?icid=global:itineraries:asia:ya42020
> 
> Sayhello



Thanks for the reply, Sayhello! Looks like a great tour, and good price too. Unfortunately don't think will be able to take that long off work, would end up being about a month with disney as well. Would be really nice though.. (a long way off retirement lol  )


----------



## Calfan

KEK1 said:


> Thanks for the reply! I like the look of the scenic tours from China Odyssesy , I might ask them for a quote. It is private touring though. Can compare it to the other company I asked. Nat Geo tours don't seem to have any that concentrate on the scenery, interestingly. The G adventures only seemed to have one with "upgraded " accommodations (not super fussy, just don't really want to stay in someone's house..)



This might be too far in the scenery/wildlife direction,  but I thought I’d point it out. We just got back from Botswana with Natural Habitat and I am definitely planning to travel with them again.  It was an amazing trip, and Nat Hab was top-notch. Definitely pricey though. 

https://www.nathab.com/asia-adventure-travel/wild-china-panda-tour/


----------



## disneyphx

Calfan said:


> https://www.nathab.com/asia-adventure-travel/wild-china-panda-tour/


 That one is high on my bucket list!


----------



## Aelin1977

KEK1 said:


> Thanks for the reply! I like the look of the scenic tours from China Odyssesy , I might ask them for a quote. It is private touring though. Can compare it to the other company I asked. Nat Geo tours don't seem to have any that concentrate on the scenery, interestingly. The G adventures only seemed to have one with "upgraded " accommodations (not super fussy, just don't really want to stay in someone's house..)



China Odyssey does do private touring but the reason we were looking at them (other than the private aspect) is that they are based in China which means we'd get a better rate by booking with them than through a local company that is going to turn around and book with the trip with a China based company and charge us more. 

We've done a number of private tours and you can chat with your tour guide as much or as little as you want. Also, private tours give you a little more leeway in doing things. If you want to spend more time at a location you can. We actually find them more flexible than a group tour. Here's an example of what I mean. When we were in Africa last year, the second safari camp we were at there was us (my mom and I) and a tour group of 14 people (2 guides + 12 guests). One night as we were preparing to head out for our night safari, one of the tour guides insisted on coming back to camp after the river safari, saying they didn't want to go out in the truck afterward. All 14 people ended up skipping the night drive and only doing the river safari. Meanwhile, my mom and I ended up zipping back along the river and hopping into our truck to head off and track the lions that we'd seen earlier. Also, we were given the opportunity to take extended morning drives if we wanted because it was just us and the driver/guide. One morning we were out for almost 6 hours when the standard is about 3. We also went much further afield.


----------



## KEK1

Calfan said:


> This might be too far in the scenery/wildlife direction,  but I thought I’d point it out. We just got back from Botswana with Natural Habitat and I am definitely planning to travel with them again.  It was an amazing trip, and Nat Hab was top-notch. Definitely pricey though.
> 
> https://www.nathab.com/asia-adventure-travel/wild-china-panda-tour/


Wow, that looks AMAZING!! way outof our price range though.


----------



## KEK1

Aelin1977 said:


> China Odyssey does do private touring but the reason we were looking at them (other than the private aspect) is that they are based in China which means we'd get a better rate by booking with them than through a local company that is going to turn around and book with the trip with a China based company and charge us more.
> 
> We've done a number of private tours and you can chat with your tour guide as much or as little as you want. Also, private tours give you a little more leeway in doing things. If you want to spend more time at a location you can. We actually find them more flexible than a group tour. Here's an example of what I mean. When we were in Africa last year, the second safari camp we were at there was us (my mom and I) and a tour group of 14 people (2 guides + 12 guests). One night as we were preparing to head out for our night safari, one of the tour guides insisted on coming back to camp after the river safari, saying they didn't want to go out in the truck afterward. All 14 people ended up skipping the night drive and only doing the river safari. Meanwhile, my mom and I ended up zipping back along the river and hopping into our truck to head off and track the lions that we'd seen earlier. Also, we were given the opportunity to take extended morning drives if we wanted because it was just us and the driver/guide. One morning we were out for almost 6 hours when the standard is about 3. We also went much further afield.


Very good points, thanks. I totally agree RE in country tour organisers. I have a Chinese company costing up a tour for us currently,  will see what it comes back as


----------



## Theta

Calfan,

Thanks so much for your Botswana review.  Where can I find your FB pictures?


----------



## Calfan

Theta said:


> Calfan,
> 
> Thanks so much for your Botswana review.  Where can I find your FB pictures?



Just sent you a PM with a link to my FB page.  

If anyone else is interested in seeing my pictures/mini trip report on FB, just send me a PM.


----------



## Candycane83

Any recommendations here on Galapagos? Looking into TB and ABD. My son would be 6.5 or 7 depending on when we decide to go. Debating next year December or March 2021 or July 2021.


----------



## BluesTraveler

Got my Travel & Leisure magazine this week with the annual "World's Best" awards.  Classic Journeys, one of companies we've discussed on this thread, was named #1 tour operator.  Thomson Family rounded out the top 10.  The rest were ones I'd never heard of.


----------



## Chrissy-Mickey

BluesTraveler said:


> Got my Travel & Leisure magazine this week with the annual "World's Best" awards.  Classic Journeys, one of companies we've discussed on this thread, was named #1 tour operator.  Thomson Family rounded out the top 10.  The rest were ones I'd never heard of.



If you don't mind, please share the whole top 10 of tour operators. I would love to see it.


----------



## LuckyBelle1

We just finished our second trip with Thomson Family with our family (2 adults and 3 teens aged 13, 13 and 15), and it cemented our positive view of the company.   We did the Thailand trip -Bangkok, Chiang Mai and Phuket/Krabi - and cannot say enough good things.   It was a great mix of history, culture, and lots of activity (hiking, biking, ziplining, kayaking, snorkeling, swimming).   We were a large group for Thomson - nineteen people with 10 kids ranging in age from 7 to eighteen - but it was a great group and our 3 guides kept everything moving seamlessly.   For the most part we were split into 3 groups for transport in either boats or minivans which helped keep things moving which was important because we packed a lot in!    The itinerary was very well-planned and very well-paced, and the meals and hotels were all great.  And I felt like it was a really good value for the money (my husband actually expressed surprise at how little we paid in light of everything the trip offered).   Already trying to figure out what our next Thomson trip will be.   Happy to answer any questions if people have them.


----------



## lovetotravel

LuckyBelle1 said:


> Happy to answer any questions if people have them.


Could you please comment on the quality of food, hotels, and guides vs ABD? Thank you.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

lovetotravel said:


> Could you please comment on the quality of food, hotels, and guides vs ABD? Thank you.


I'd love to hear this, too!


----------



## LuckyBelle1

The hotels in each of three locations were great, although definitely not as high end as ABD would use.   We were at the Anantara Riverside in Bangkok which was beautiful and very well-located on the river, but it was not the Mandarin or the Peninsula which was fine with our family.   I will say the breakfast at the Anantara was insanely good - even better than the Table Bay in South Africa where we stayed with ABD which had heretofore been the best breakfast ever.   In Chiang Mai we were at the Rati Lanna which was a beautiful hotel in a beautiful spot on the river (and the spa was amazing).   The only downside of the Rati Lanna was that it was a little bit outside the old town and not very pedestrian friendly.   But we were so busy while in Chiang Mai that it really didn't matter, and when we wanted to go somewhere, tuk tuks were easily available and very inexpensive (and fun!).   In Phuket/Krabi we actually stayed on an island between the two at the Paradise Koh Yao.    The resort was remote, but it fit perfectly into the activities we did and we loved the location.   It was not "rustic" by an stretch, but it was slightly more basic because of the remote locale.   It had a great pool, insane beach and other fun activities (my daughter and I did batik painting our last morning and it was an unexpectedly special experience).

The food was good and plentiful.   Thomson definitely includes more meals than ABD which we like, and the meals were for the most part really good.   The lunch our first day in Bangkok is one that they should probably rethink, but other than that we had no complaints except that they should add a western meal in somewhere because 10 days of even really good Thai food is too much Thai food!   Meals were mostly family style and the food was well-prepared and plentiful if a bit repetitive.  In Bangkok we ate at the hotel (it was a lavish seafood buffet with a traditional Thai show), and because of the location we did the same at the beach (it was a different buffet each night on the beach which was very nice).  In Chaing Mai I was really impressed that they picked beautiful and interesting restaurants each night, including dinner one night at an 80 year old historic restaurant on the river with more traditional Thai offerings which was very memorable.    Soft drinks and specialty drinks were generally included and alcohol was included at several dinners as well.  

Our guides were very, very good.   They were knowledgeable, organized, fun and willing to do anything for you. They were all Thai natives and we enjoyed getting to know them, and found their personal insights into life in Thailand to be one of the best parts of the trip.   With 3 guides, we felt more than taken care of, but I should note that we tend not to need lots of attention.   I did make a couple of requests - I went back to the hotel early one day, and asked for help going back to the night market in Chiang Mai one evening and both times the guides did more than I would have asked to accommodate my requests.    The only place I think our guides were not quite as good as some of the ABD guides we have had (Korey comes to mind) was in what I would call "storytelling" - imparting information at the right level of detail and making it come alive for all members of our family.  In many instances our guides did that very well, but on our day in Bangkok I felt like our temple visits could have been more impactful if information had been delivered in a less detailed/matter of fact way.   But in fairness, that was a tough day - it was hot, it was crowded and it is not an easy topic to impart to a group that mostly had no background knowledge.    On the whole I was very satisfied with our guides.  Also, I note that in Thailand there are significant limitations on non-native tour guides, and I wonder if that is why ABD has not entered the Thai market yet as any non-Thai guides would be required by law to be tour managers and not tour guides.


----------



## BluesTraveler

Here is the link:
https://www.travelandleisure.com/worlds-best/tour-operators


----------



## laceltris3

Ooooh.  I am going to have to look at that Classic Journeys Family Iceland itinerary....


----------



## Calfan

BluesTraveler said:


> Here is the link:
> https://www.travelandleisure.com/worlds-best/tour-operators



I haven’t booked directly through them, but Mountain Sobek (#7) ran the Nat Geo hiking trips I did in England and Ireland (England Coast to Coast with @CaliforniaGirl09 and Hiking the Emerald Isle with my DH). Both were fantastic trips.


----------



## Cousin Orville

I thought I'd share my recent experiences in planning our Morocco trip in hopes it may help others.  As many of you know, we do a mix of ABD, some trips on our own, and trips organized by other travel specialists.  We recently finished trips in Jordan, Israel and Portugal and have Peru/Bolivia planned for next year.  All these were planned by travel specialists.  We had a trip to Morocco planned for later this year by Heritage Tours.  It was Conde Nast's recommended travel specialist for Morocco.  They were ranked #3 in Travel and Leisure's 2017 Tour Operators.  Ranked #1 by National Geographic best trips 2019 for their Egypt trip.  They've completely stopped communicating with us, and there are other reviews online within the last month that are echoing similar problems - inability to contact, guests getting calls directly from hotels saying reservations haven't been paid, money lost, etc.  Basically that's our experience too.  The trip was pricey - longer in days, but similar in price to the Japan ABD.  It was very luxury oriented.  We had put a significant amount of money down (thankfully not the whole thing yet) and are now working through insurance to try to recover the money.  It could have been worse.  We could have paid for the whole thing and arrived in Morocco with nothing.  I can't even imagine how stressful that would have been.  Anyway, I'll report back once the dust settles.


----------



## BluesTraveler

Cousin Orville said:


> I thought I'd share my recent experiences in planning our Morocco trip in hopes it may help others.  As many of you know, we do a mix of ABD, some trips on our own, and trips organized by other travel specialists.  We recently finished trips in Jordan, Israel and Portugal and have Peru/Bolivia planned for next year.  All these were planned by travel specialists.  We had a trip to Morocco planned for later this year by Heritage Tours.  It was Conde Nast's recommended travel specialist for Morocco.  They were ranked #3 in Travel and Leisure's 2017 Tour Operators.  Ranked #1 by National Geographic best trips 2019 for their Egypt trip.  They've completely stopped communicating with us, and there are other reviews online within the last month that are echoing similar problems - inability to contact, guests getting calls directly from hotels saying reservations haven't been paid, money lost, etc.  Basically that's our experience too.  The trip was pricey - longer in days, but similar in price to the Japan ABD.  It was very luxury oriented.  We had put a significant amount of money down (thankfully not the whole thing yet) and are now working through insurance to try to recover the money.  It could have been worse.  We could have paid for the whole thing and arrived in Morocco with nothing.  I can't even imagine how stressful that would have been.  Anyway, I'll report back once the dust settles.


OMG.  What a nightmare for you.  I am so sorry.  Had you already bought plane tickets?  This has been my hesitation in going with Thompson Family since they require check payments (or a 3% surcharge for cc) - at least if you are able to pay by credit card, you're covered somewhat.


----------



## sayhello

Cousin Orville said:


> I thought I'd share my recent experiences in planning our Morocco trip in hopes it may help others.  As many of you know, we do a mix of ABD, some trips on our own, and trips organized by other travel specialists.  We recently finished trips in Jordan, Israel and Portugal and have Peru/Bolivia planned for next year.  All these were planned by travel specialists.  We had a trip to Morocco planned for later this year by Heritage Tours.  It was Conde Nast's recommended travel specialist for Morocco.  They were ranked #3 in Travel and Leisure's 2017 Tour Operators.  Ranked #1 by National Geographic best trips 2019 for their Egypt trip.  They've completely stopped communicating with us, and there are other reviews online within the last month that are echoing similar problems - inability to contact, guests getting calls directly from hotels saying reservations haven't been paid, money lost, etc.  Basically that's our experience too.  The trip was pricey - longer in days, but similar in price to the Japan ABD.  It was very luxury oriented.  We had put a significant amount of money down (thankfully not the whole thing yet) and are now working through insurance to try to recover the money.  It could have been worse.  We could have paid for the whole thing and arrived in Morocco with nothing.  I can't even imagine how stressful that would have been.  Anyway, I'll report back once the dust settles.


That is just awful!   I wonder what happened?  How do you go from a top rated company to dead silence?  I'm glad it wasn't worse than it was, and that your insurance covers default by your operator.  Are you going to try & rework the trip elsewhere, or just move on to the next trip?

Sayhello


----------



## carpenta

Sorry to hear about your horrible problem. Hope it works out for you and the family. Like you stated it could have been worse and been abandoned while in country. Good luck.


----------



## laceltris3

I think that is the nightmare for everyone here. 

I hope you get your money back and can salvage your plans, but there is no remedy for your lost time.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

LuckyBelle1 said:


> The hotels in each of three locations were great, although definitely not as high end as ABD would use.   We were at the Anantara Riverside in Bangkok which was beautiful and very well-located on the river, but it was not the Mandarin or the Peninsula which was fine with our family.   I will say the breakfast at the Anantara was insanely good - even better than the Table Bay in South Africa where we stayed with ABD which had heretofore been the best breakfast ever.   In Chiang Mai we were at the Rati Lanna which was a beautiful hotel in a beautiful spot on the river (and the spa was amazing).   The only downside of the Rati Lanna was that it was a little bit outside the old town and not very pedestrian friendly.   But we were so busy while in Chiang Mai that it really didn't matter, and when we wanted to go somewhere, tuk tuks were easily available and very inexpensive (and fun!).   In Phuket/Krabi we actually stayed on an island between the two at the Paradise Koh Yao.    The resort was remote, but it fit perfectly into the activities we did and we loved the location.   It was not "rustic" by an stretch, but it was slightly more basic because of the remote locale.   It had a great pool, insane beach and other fun activities (my daughter and I did batik painting our last morning and it was an unexpectedly special experience).
> 
> The food was good and plentiful.   Thomson definitely includes more meals than ABD which we like, and the meals were for the most part really good.   The lunch our first day in Bangkok is one that they should probably rethink, but other than that we had no complaints except that they should add a western meal in somewhere because 10 days of even really good Thai food is too much Thai food!   Meals were mostly family style and the food was well-prepared and plentiful if a bit repetitive.  In Bangkok we ate at the hotel (it was a lavish seafood buffet with a traditional Thai show), and because of the location we did the same at the beach (it was a different buffet each night on the beach which was very nice).  In Chaing Mai I was really impressed that they picked beautiful and interesting restaurants each night, including dinner one night at an 80 year old historic restaurant on the river with more traditional Thai offerings which was very memorable.    Soft drinks and specialty drinks were generally included and alcohol was included at several dinners as well.
> 
> Our guides were very, very good.   They were knowledgeable, organized, fun and willing to do anything for you. They were all Thai natives and we enjoyed getting to know them, and found their personal insights into life in Thailand to be one of the best parts of the trip.   With 3 guides, we felt more than taken care of, but I should note that we tend not to need lots of attention.   I did make a couple of requests - I went back to the hotel early one day, and asked for help going back to the night market in Chiang Mai one evening and both times the guides did more than I would have asked to accommodate my requests.    The only place I think our guides were not quite as good as some of the ABD guides we have had (Korey comes to mind) was in what I would call "storytelling" - imparting information at the right level of detail and making it come alive for all members of our family.  In many instances our guides did that very well, but on our day in Bangkok I felt like our temple visits could have been more impactful if information had been delivered in a less detailed/matter of fact way.   But in fairness, that was a tough day - it was hot, it was crowded and it is not an easy topic to impart to a group that mostly had no background knowledge.    On the whole I was very satisfied with our guides.  Also, I note that in Thailand there are significant limitations on non-native tour guides, and I wonder if that is why ABD has not entered the Thai market yet as any non-Thai guides would be required by law to be tour managers and not tour guides.



Thanks so much for the great detail. Sounds like a really fun trip and very interesting about the guides in Thailand. That could definitely explain it.



Calfan said:


> I haven’t booked directly through them, but Mountain Sobek (#7) ran the Nat Geo hiking trips I did in England and Ireland (England Coast to Coast with @CaliforniaGirl09 and Hiking the Emerald Isle with my DH). Both were fantastic trips.


Great memory on the tour company, and yes, they were awesome. I'm intrigued by Classic Journeys as i've heard about them so much and now here they are at #1. I'll have to try to search this thread and see if I can find any review. I know a lot of people have asked about them, but I can't remember whether anyone has actually traveled with them. I did some general searching on reviews and definitely read some negative ones. 



Cousin Orville said:


> I thought I'd share my recent experiences in planning our Morocco trip in hopes it may help others.  As many of you know, we do a mix of ABD, some trips on our own, and trips organized by other travel specialists.  We recently finished trips in Jordan, Israel and Portugal and have Peru/Bolivia planned for next year.  All these were planned by travel specialists.  We had a trip to Morocco planned for later this year by Heritage Tours.  It was Conde Nast's recommended travel specialist for Morocco.  They were ranked #3 in Travel and Leisure's 2017 Tour Operators.  Ranked #1 by National Geographic best trips 2019 for their Egypt trip.  They've completely stopped communicating with us, and there are other reviews online within the last month that are echoing similar problems - inability to contact, guests getting calls directly from hotels saying reservations haven't been paid, money lost, etc.  Basically that's our experience too.  The trip was pricey - longer in days, but similar in price to the Japan ABD.  It was very luxury oriented.  We had put a significant amount of money down (thankfully not the whole thing yet) and are now working through insurance to try to recover the money.  It could have been worse.  We could have paid for the whole thing and arrived in Morocco with nothing.  I can't even imagine how stressful that would have been.  Anyway, I'll report back once the dust settles.


Oh my goodness, how horrible! I'm so sorry you are having to deal with all this. I hope it doesn't end up on being too much of a headache to get your sunk costs back.


----------



## Cousin Orville

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> Yes, it was stories like these that made me keep our Disney add-on. So frustrating and certainly not a great customer experience.





BluesTraveler said:


> OMG.  What a nightmare for you.  I am so sorry.  Had you already bought plane tickets?  This has been my hesitation in going with Thompson Family since they require check payments (or a 3% surcharge for cc) - at least if you are able to pay by credit card, you're covered somewhat.



Yes, we also have plane tickets.  We're going to try to get the tickets refunded by insurance, but we'll see.  I can at least pay a change fee and use them for a European trip.



sayhello said:


> That is just awful!   I wonder what happened?  How do you go from a top rated company to dead silence?  I'm glad it wasn't worse than it was, and that your insurance covers default by your operator.  Are you going to try & rework the trip elsewhere, or just move on to the next trip?
> 
> Sayhello



I'm going to hold off from Morocco for now.  Maybe ABD will offer a trip in the next couple of years.  Not sure what we'll do instead.  Maybe just stay home or head to Europe on our own for a week.  Haven't figured that one out yet.



CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> Thanks so much for the great detail. Sounds like a really fun trip and very interesting about the guides in Thailand. That could definitely explain it.
> 
> 
> Great memory on the tour company, and yes, they were awesome. I'm intrigued by Classic Journeys as i've heard about them so much and now here they are at #1. I'll have to try to search this thread and see if I can find any review. I know a lot of people have asked about them, but I can't remember whether anyone has actually traveled with them. I did some general searching on reviews and definitely read some negative ones.
> 
> 
> Oh my goodness, how horrible! I'm so sorry you are having to deal with all this. I hope it doesn't end up on being too much of a headache to get your sunk costs back.



Hopefully not.  Insurance covers insolvent tour operators so hopefully there won't be any issues.  I'll post back more specifics once I find out.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

@Cousin Orville I am so sorry to hear about your experience with your Morocco trip.  What a nightmare.  Do you think they've filed for Chapter 11?  What could lead to them to stop communicating with you?  Please keep us updated and I will be hoping that things work out for you.


----------



## DollyM

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> @Cousin Orville I am so sorry to hear about your experience with your Morocco trip.  What a nightmare.  Do you think they've filed for Chapter 11?  What could lead to them to stop communicating with you?  Please keep us updated and I will be hoping that things work out for you.


This article seems relevant:

https://www.travelweekly.com/Travel...le-lawsuits-JG-Worldwide-files-for-bankruptcy


----------



## Cousin Orville

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> @Cousin Orville I am so sorry to hear about your experience with your Morocco trip.  What a nightmare.  Do you think they've filed for Chapter 11?  What could lead to them to stop communicating with you?  Please keep us updated and I will be hoping that things work out for you.



Thanks.  I'll keep you posted.  Looks like they did indeed go bankrupt.



DollyM said:


> This article seems relevant:
> 
> https://www.travelweekly.com/Travel...le-lawsuits-JG-Worldwide-files-for-bankruptcy



Holy cow, that's it!  It says right in the article it's the parent company to Heritage Tours.  Thank you!  We'll send this to our insurance although they probably know already.

From the article:
"JG Worldwide, the New York public relations and travel company accused of bilking travelers, business partners and employees out of millions of dollars, has filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy.

In its initial filing on July 24 in the federal bankruptcy court for the Southern District of New York, the company, which is the parent to Heritage Tours and Revealed America among others, said it has up to $10 million in debts and no assets to pay creditors."


----------



## DollyM

Cousin Orville said:


> Thanks.  I'll keep you posted.  Looks like they did indeed go bankrupt.
> 
> 
> 
> Holy cow, that's it!  It says right in the article it's the parent company to Heritage Tours.  Thank you!  We'll send this to our insurance although they probably know already.
> 
> From the article:
> "JG Worldwide, the New York public relations and travel company accused of bilking travelers, business partners and employees out of millions of dollars, has filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy.
> 
> In its initial filing on July 24 in the federal bankruptcy court for the Southern District of New York, the company, which is the parent to Heritage Tours and Revealed America among others, said it has up to $10 million in debts and no assets to pay creditors."


I hope it helps!


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Cousin Orville said:


> Thanks.  I'll keep you posted.  Looks like they did indeed go bankrupt.



I'm so so sorry to hear this.  Please keep us updated.


----------



## laceltris3

Cousin Orville said:


> Holy cow, that's it!  It says right in the article it's the parent company to Heritage Tours.  Thank you!  We'll send this to our insurance although they probably know already.



Cousin Orville, may I ask who you used for travel insurance and how well that is working?

I always buy insurance for pricey trips, but haven't ever made a claim. Once it's all worked out, I would appreciate hearina a bit about that part.


----------



## tgeorge

laceltris3 said:


> Cousin Orville, may I ask who you used for travel insurance and how well that is working?
> 
> I always buy insurance for pricey trips, but haven't ever made a claim. Once it's all worked out, I would appreciate hearina a bit about that part.



I’ve had to make two claims. One for a trip to the medical center on a cruise ship and another because my Mom had a severe anxiety attack and couldn’t get on the plane to get to her cruise ship. Both times, the insurance was very easy to work with and payments were paid out quite quickly. So, in my experience, it’s really a fantastic thing to help protect a pricey trip because you never know what is going to happen.

I hope Cousin Orville has the same luck in this situation. I’m working with an agency on planning our private trip to Australia, and trip insurance will definitely be purchased. Best of luck Cousin Orville! We are all  hoping for a successful outcome for you.


----------



## Cousin Orville

laceltris3 said:


> Cousin Orville, may I ask who you used for travel insurance and how well that is working?
> 
> I always buy insurance for pricey trips, but haven't ever made a claim. Once it's all worked out, I would appreciate hearina a bit about that part.



I’ll be sure to let everyone know good or bad once their decision has been made.


----------



## Candycane83

@Cousin Orville so sorry to hear about this trouble! hope it works out for you!!


----------



## sayhello

laceltris3 said:


> Cousin Orville, may I ask who you used for travel insurance and how well that is working?
> 
> I always buy insurance for pricey trips, but haven't ever made a claim. Once it's all worked out, I would appreciate hearina a bit about that part.





tgeorge said:


> I’ve had to make two claims. One for a trip to the medical center on a cruise ship and another because my Mom had a severe anxiety attack and couldn’t get on the plane to get to her cruise ship. Both times, the insurance was very easy to work with and payments were paid out quite quickly. So, in my experience, it’s really a fantastic thing to help protect a pricey trip because you never know what is going to happen.
> 
> I hope Cousin Orville has the same luck in this situation. I’m working with an agency on planning our private trip to Australia, and trip insurance will definitely be purchased. Best of luck Cousin Orville! We are all  hoping for a successful outcome for you.


I find the key thing is knowing before you purchase what your policy does and doesn't cover.  Many policies don't cover operator default.  Or they only cover it if you purchase your policy within a certain amount of time after putting down your first deposit.  Or at least a certain amount of time before your departure.  Same with pre-existing conditions, and certain weather events.  I can't stress enough how important reading the policy is!

I've made 3 claims in my time, and never had an issue with any of them.  First time was when I got a corneal abrasion on the flight down to my first cruise, and had to see the ship's doctor.  Insurance re-imbursed me the cost of that visit.  Second time was when I tore my rotator cuff less than 2 weeks before a trip to Northern California.  The first half was a hiking tour and the second half was visiting various family members up there.  The insurance company reimbursed me for the cost of the hiking trip, and paid to change my flight so that I could still visit my family for the second part of the trip.  They couldn't have been nicer to work with.  The third time was when I slipped and fell on the steps of a B&B in Anchorage, and sliced my forehead open.  I ended up in the ER.  The insurance rep talked directly to the hospital billing department, and I never even saw a bill for the ER visit which included a CAT scan.  They also got on the phone with me to talk to Alaska Airlines, since I'd missed my flight home, and got me booked on the same, supposedly full, flight the next morning.  No cost to me.  They also re-imbursed me for the hotel room I needed to stay until the next morning.  I've always gotten trip insurance, and I've always been glad when I've needed it.

Sayhello


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

laceltris3 said:


> Cousin Orville, may I ask who you used for travel insurance and how well that is working?
> 
> I always buy insurance for pricey trips, but haven't ever made a claim. Once it's all worked out, I would appreciate hearina a bit about that part.



I made a claim once on trip insurance.  It was when my mom passed away suddenly (heart attack) the day before we were supposed to start our London / Paris ABD (we were already in London).  The company was fantastic to work with and reimbursed everything.  I always purchase insurance and hope that I never need it; it's worth the piece of mind.

@Cousin Orville Nat Geo does private Morocco trips and Classic Journeys has a family Morocco trip in December (scheduled).  Not sure how the dates would line up with yours, but it might be worth looking into.


----------



## Calfan

@Cousin Orville , so sorry about the situation with your Morocco trip.  Seems like a double whammy to have to deal with the hassle and stress of working through insurance claims to try to recoup what you've paid for the trip, air, etc. on top of the disappointment of not being able to go on a trip you were really looking forward to.  Fingers crossed that all goes well with the insurance company.  It sounds like you've deferred the idea of Morocco for awhile, but just wanted to mention that Thomson has a Morocco trip as well (I know you were pointed to a couple of other options above too).


----------



## Calfan

BluesTraveler said:


> OMG.  What a nightmare for you.  I am so sorry.  Had you already bought plane tickets?  This has been my hesitation in going with Thompson Family since they require check payments (or a 3% surcharge for cc) - at least if you are able to pay by credit card, you're covered somewhat.



Just wanted to comment here that Thomson's trips include travel insurance as part of the trip cost.  I will admit I haven't studied the fine print to see if it covers Thomson going belly up or committing fraud.  Also, while I am right there with a lot of others on this board in finding Thomson's credit card policy supremely irritating (and I point out to them how much I dislike the policy every time an opportunity presents itself to do so, lol), I'm now just taking the approach of factoring in the 3% credit card surcharge into the overall cost of the trip when comparing itineraries and overall cost between Thomson and other providers.  I paid our China balance by check (which just *killed* me) but plan to pay our Japan balance via credit card.  Japan is a little easier for me to bite the bullet on the 3% surcharge because we are paying 2017 prices for that trip based on putting down a $5k deposit in 2017 for our 2020 trip.  And you can pay Thomson deposits by credit card without a surcharge.  So the surcharge doesn't apply to the full price of the trip.  Plus, I'm going to use a credit card that earns 3x points on travel to pay the balance, so at worst the points earned are a wash with the 3% surcharge, and I know I can get at least 1.5 cents of value from each point I will earn on the payment, so I will actually come out ahead.  Still, there is the psychological aspect of knowing I could have paid less by not using a credit card, which I totally get and feel and realize some might not be able to overcome.  As I said, for me, if we are evaluating a Thomson itinerary in the future against Nat Hab, Nat Geo, etc., I will compare prices factoring in the surcharge on the Thomson side (plus the fact that I don't have to purchase travel insurance separately because Thomson includes it).


----------



## Cousin Orville

Calfan said:


> @Cousin Orville , so sorry about the situation with your Morocco trip.  Seems like a double whammy to have to deal with the hassle and stress of working through insurance claims to try to recoup what you've paid for the trip, air, etc. on top of the disappointment of not being able to go on a trip you were really looking forward to.  Fingers crossed that all goes well with the insurance company.  It sounds like you've deferred the idea of Morocco for awhile, but just wanted to mention that Thomson has a Morocco trip as well (I know you were pointed to a couple of other options above too).



Thanks, Thomson looks like a pretty good option as does Nat Geo's private tour.  Unfortunately neither go out to the Sahara, but that's probably not something that should be a deciding factor.  Thomson is booked for the dates we would want, but I may call up Nat Geo to get more info.  Otherwise, we'll likely just go to Paris and/or Croatia which we've talked about before.  If I don't do Morocco this year, we'll likely consider it 2 yrs from now.  Next Christmas we're planning on doing the SE Asia ABD - I've done it but Kate and my younger kids haven't.  As far as Thomson's 3% fee, I'd just factor it in as well.


----------



## WDWmom08

BluesTraveler said:


> Here is the link:
> https://www.travelandleisure.com/worlds-best/tour-operators



Has anyone heard of or had experience with Scott Dunn? They have a great looking family Scotland itinerary.


----------



## Donalyn

What travel insurance companies do people use?


----------



## Calfan

Cousin Orville said:


> Thanks, Thomson looks like a pretty good option as does Nat Geo's private tour.  Unfortunately neither go out to the Sahara, but that's probably not something that should be a deciding factor.  Thomson is booked for the dates we would want, but I may call up Nat Geo to get more info.  Otherwise, we'll likely just go to Paris and/or Croatia which we've talked about before.  If I don't do Morocco this year, we'll likely consider it 2 yrs from now.  Next Christmas we're planning on doing the SE Asia ABD - I've done it but Kate and my younger kids haven't.  As far as Thomson's 3% fee, I'd just factor it in as well.



Sounds like you have a good alternative plan. Croatia is on our list as well. On the Sahara point, if you do start working with Thomson on a future Morocco trip, they will customize extensions and whole trips. The family who was with us on our China trip with Thomson ended up having Thomson put together a custom trip for them to Russia. And Thomson put together an overnight for us to Mt. Fuji and also a Hiroshima extension for our Japan trip. So they might be able to work in the Sahara for you on a Morocco trip.


----------



## sayhello

Donalyn said:


> What travel insurance companies do people use?


I've had good experiences with Travelex and  Travel Insured.  But what I do is go to sites like insure my trip, or tripinsurancestore, and use their site to research various providers and policies to see which suits my current needs the best.  insure my trip has the widest selections and tripinsurancestore has a fabulous FAQ section.  I've found their 800 numbers are also invaluable if you have questions or are having a hard time deciding on a policy.

Sayhello


----------



## Cousin Orville

Calfan said:


> Sounds like you have a good alternative plan. Croatia is on our list as well. On the Sahara point, if you do start working with Thomson on a future Morocco trip, they will customize extensions and whole trips. The family who was with us on our China trip with Thomson ended up having Thomson put together a custom trip for them to Russia. And Thomson put together an overnight for us to Mt. Fuji and also a Hiroshima extension for our Japan trip. So they might be able to work in the Sahara for you on a Morocco trip.



Well that’s cool!  I’ll give Thompson a call and see what they can do.


----------



## tgeorge

sayhello said:


> I've had good experiences with Travelex and  Travel Insured.  But what I do is go to sites like insure my trip, or tripinsurancestore, and use their site to research various providers and policies to see which suits my current needs the best.  insure my trip has the widest selections and tripinsurancestore has a fabulous FAQ section.  I've found their 800 numbers are also invaluable if you have questions or are having a hard time deciding on a policy.
> 
> Sayhello




This is what I do as well. I really like that you can choose a few options and compare them side by side.


----------



## laceltris3

Donalyn said:


> What travel insurance companies do people use?


We have always used Allianz, and purchase within 2 days of paying the deposit. My youngest has severe food allergies and I never want to have to fight over what is a pre-existing condition. I also pay with my Chase Sapphire Reserve which also includes travel insurance. 

The main benefit of Allianz is that they do cover pre existing conditions if purchased within 2 weeks of departure, and your kids are covered on the plan for free, so it usually ends up being the best deal for us. All of our travel providers have been covered, but I have never made a claim.


----------



## RSM

So, for 2020 we are going to do a 6 day hiking tour in the Dolomites (the Italian Alps).  We are using Right Path Adventures.  A bit of a niche company that has been around for a long time.  They do walking/hiking tours in the Dolomites as well a Croatia/Slovenia.  What drew us was that the hikes are not pre-set like many of the tour companies.  You can talk to Gary (owner and lead guide) and hike based on your own fitness level or how you feel that day.  So, lots of flexibility.  The groups are no more than 8 people and pretty reasonably priced.  However, they do not mix adult groups with families with children.  So, families book a tour as a private tour which is the same price as a group tour.  For a group tour, there is no single supplement.  Single travellers pay the same amount as double occupancy.  We will add on a couple of days in Venice either pre or post trip.  Looking forward to an active adventure and spending some time in the mountains.

As an aside, we did look at a couple of Mt. Sobek's trips as well as Backroads.  We just wanted the flexibility to pick how strenuous of a day we would have on any given day versus set trails (although both offer easier or more difficult hikes for most of the trails).  Anyways, if anyone is interested, check out Right Path Adventures website.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

RSM said:


> So, for 2020 we are going to do a 6 day hiking tour in the Dolomites (the Italian Alps).  We are using Right Path Adventures.  A bit of a niche company that has been around for a long time.  They do walking/hiking tours in the Dolomites as well a Croatia/Slovenia.  What drew us was that the hikes are not pre-set like many of the tour companies.  You can talk to Gary (owner and lead guide) and hike based on your own fitness level or how you feel that day.  So, lots of flexibility.  The groups are no more than 8 people and pretty reasonably priced.  However, they do not mix adult groups with families with children.  So, families book a tour as a private tour which is the same price as a group tour.  For a group tour, there is no single supplement.  Single travellers pay the same amount as double occupancy.  We will add on a couple of days in Venice either pre or post trip.  Looking forward to an active adventure and spending some time in the mountains.
> 
> As an aside, we did look at a couple of Mt. Sobek's trips as well as Backroads.  We just wanted the flexibility to pick how strenuous of a day we would have on any given day versus set trails (although both offer easier or more difficult hikes for most of the trails).  Anyways, if anyone is interested, check out Right Path Adventures website.


Wow, sound fantastic. Looking forward to hearing how it goes. I'm amazed by the no single supplement.


----------



## sayhello

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> Wow, sound fantastic. Looking forward to hearing how it goes. I'm amazed by the no single supplement.


Me, too!  That alone makes them worth looking into!

Sayhello


----------



## Chirple

@Cousin Orville, I'm just catching up on your trip issue now.  I hope everything works out well in the end and am sorry that your family got caught up in this mess.


----------



## AquaDame

@Cousin Orville I'm so sorry this happened to you! 

I just called my company this morning too because we haven't heard a peep from them... she had said to expect our final confirmation numbers and info about two weeks out back in June and now its only eleven days to go before we land (we leave in 9!). The person on the phone seemed surprised I'd called and said we'd get it at a week out as they are reconfirming everything now and its all fine and she'll flag us for our agent to call us back. No info. A week out. Your story is making me think of a plan B and C... just in case. I told her not to bother flagging it if this is normal but she insisted. I do NOT want to be flagged if its a matter of waiting two more days - I just want to know my ducks are in a row. Ugh. I had planned to ask about other activities based on when our down time is but that's out the window I'm sure unless everything in the camps is booked first come first served. I don't even know exactly when our flights, transfers or game drives are. I give up on the idea that going with award winning companies is hassle free.


----------



## Rapunzellover

AquaDame-  what company is this?  I'd be a mess if I had to deal with that!


----------



## AquaDame

Rapunzellover said:


> AquaDame-  what company is this?  I'd be a mess if I had to deal with that!



I'll PM you - I don't want to drag their name through the mud publicly as it all may still go swimmingly. If I end up recommending them at this point it'd just be with a huge asterisk that you have to be very chill about communication and VERY explicit about anything you think you may need. There won't be any time left to move events around or add things at this point if something doesn't jive (example - I was thinking we might want to do a hot air balloon or take a train ride at vic falls but I wanted to see the schedule first which I don't have). My hope is we can still add it when we get there but I don't know. We did contact one hotel because we want to do tea while we are there and I at least know THAT is first come first served... maybe most things are? Regardless, I didn't even get so much as a thanks we got it email when we put in our final payment and it was a VERY large amount we have sunk in with them. Just the website switched to saying PIF.


----------



## KEK1

In case anyone is interested in other China options. I have had a schedule arranged for a private tour with English speaking guide through China Discoverys. It's 19 days, starts in Hong Kong,  goes to *Guilin, Longsheng (rice terraces), Yangshuo,Zhangjiajie (Avatar floating mountains),Shanghai,     Suzhou  ,Huangshan, Mt Huangshan,Beijing*
It's heavy on scenery and walking as that's what we like. 5 star hotels, 1st class train tickets, 1 economy flight. $8k US for 2. Only thing it doesn't incl is Disney and 1 night at each of the Disney hotels, and park tickets. It looks great, we will probably do it. Can send full itinary if anyone is interested.


----------



## Calfan

AquaDame said:


> I'll PM you - I don't want to drag their name through the mud publicly as it all may still go swimmingly. If I end up recommending them at this point it'd just be with a huge asterisk that you have to be very chill about communication and VERY explicit about anything you think you may need. There won't be any time left to move events around or add things at this point if something doesn't jive (example - I was thinking we might want to do a hot air balloon or take a train ride at vic falls but I wanted to see the schedule first which I don't have). My hope is we can still add it when we get there but I don't know. We did contact one hotel because we want to do tea while we are there and I at least know THAT is first come first served... maybe most things are? Regardless, I didn't even get so much as a thanks we got it email when we put in our final payment and it was a VERY large amount we have sunk in with them. Just the website switched to saying PIF.



I believe you can reserve tea in advance at the Victoria Falls Hotel if you want to try to do that for some certainty.  Also, if you do find yourself with time in Vic Falls for the activities you are interested in, I highly recommend Wild Horizons for booking activities.  They have an office/kiosk in downtown Vic Falls.  (I arranged everything in advance with them via email but realize that likely won't work for you since you don't know your exact schedule.)  Wild Horizons actually reserved our tea for us as well.


----------



## sayhello

KEK1 said:


> In case anyone is interested in other China options. I have had a schedule arranged for a private tour with English speaking guide through China Discoverys. It's 19 days, starts in Hong Kong,  goes to *Guilin, Longsheng (rice terraces), Yangshuo,Zhangjiajie (Avatar floating mountains),Shanghai,     Suzhou  ,Huangshan, Mt Huangshan,Beijing*
> It's heavy on scenery and walking as that's what we like. 5 star hotels, 1st class train tickets, 1 economy flight. $8k US for 2. Only thing it doesn't incl is Disney and 1 night at each of the Disney hotels, and park tickets. It looks great, we will probably do it. Can send full itinary if anyone is interested.


No Xi'an and the Terra Cotta Soldiers?   

Sayhello


----------



## KEK1

sayhello said:


> No Xi'an and the Terra Cotta Soldiers?
> 
> Sayhello


No.. Not this time.  I know they are one of the big things but somethings had to go. Will come back (Would like to see the national park in the south that's been damaged by earthquakes and Tibet, as well). 
They were your favourite,  weren't they?


----------



## sayhello

KEK1 said:


> No.. Not this time.  I know they are one of the big things but somethings had to go. Will come back (Would like to see the national park in the south that's been damaged by earthquakes and Tibet, as well).
> They were your favourite,  weren't they?


They were!  It was an insane day, but was totally worth it, because I really loved the terra cotta soldiers.  The cruise on the river Li was also great.  And I assume since you go to Beijing, that you'll be doing the Great Wall.  So iconic!

Sayhello


----------



## AquaDame

Calfan said:


> I believe you can reserve tea in advance at the Victoria Falls Hotel if you want to try to do that for some certainty.  Also, if you do find yourself with time in Vic Falls for the activities you are interested in, I highly recommend Wild Horizons for booking activities.  They have an office/kiosk in downtown Vic Falls.  (I arranged everything in advance with them via email but realize that likely won't work for you since you don't know your exact schedule.)  Wild Horizons actually reserved our tea for us as well.



It was Vic Falls that told my husband it is first come first served... maybe they set aside some if you are staying at the hotel so its not a big deal? Very interesting WH was able to secure it ahead of time...!


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

AquaDame said:


> I'll PM you - I don't want to drag their name through the mud publicly as it all may still go swimmingly. If I end up recommending them at this point it'd just be with a huge asterisk that you have to be very chill about communication and VERY explicit about anything you think you may need. There won't be any time left to move events around or add things at this point if something doesn't jive (example - I was thinking we might want to do a hot air balloon or take a train ride at vic falls but I wanted to see the schedule first which I don't have). My hope is we can still add it when we get there but I don't know. We did contact one hotel because we want to do tea while we are there and I at least know THAT is first come first served... maybe most things are? Regardless, I didn't even get so much as a thanks we got it email when we put in our final payment and it was a VERY large amount we have sunk in with them. Just the website switched to saying PIF.


We have done Africa twice on our own.  The first time we used Singita Travel department to make all of our arrangements and all communication was great (though they are also a bit slow to respond inquiries).  The second time we used another agency and the communication was similar to what you are experiencing.  I can tell you that everything worked out perfectly.  I am trying to plan a third trip to Africa with another agency and he is *very* slow to respond to my e-mails, however I met him in person last year on our travels and thought he was amazing, so will stay with him. 

I tried to use Singita Travel to book our third trip (next year), but they pulled some nasty shenanigans on me and it left a very sour taste in my mouth (I started the booking process with them at 18 months in advance, so this never should have happened). I will avoid them from now on.  For the prices they charge they shouldn't have done what they did.  There are plenty of other operators in Africa that I can and will use.


----------



## AquaDame

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I tried to use Singita Travel to book our third trip (next year), but they pulled some nasty shenanigans on me and it left a very sour taste in my mouth (I started the booking process with them at 18 months in advance, so this never should have happened). I will avoid them from now on.  For the prices they charge they shouldn't have done what they did.  There are plenty of other operators in Africa that I can and will use.



May I ask what the shenanigans were? We also booked 17 months out as I know we are going during a peak time of year. Sadly the rains came early so we'll see if it pays off or not with our viewing but we tried.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

AquaDame said:


> May I ask what the shenanigans were? We also booked 17 months out as I know we are going during a peak time of year. Sadly the rains came early so we'll see if it pays off or not with our viewing but we tried.


It's a bit of a long story.  We have visited Singita Sabi Sands before.  We wanted to stay at Boulders Lodge next year and had booked a room for 5 nights there.  They contacted me (we were still finalizing the Rwanda and Tanzania portions of the trip) and asked if I would be willing to move to Ebony Lodge as they had a group that wanted to book all of Boulders for our dates.  I told them that I had stayed at Ebony before and did not want to stay again; they then offered me some lame promo that I wasn't interested in (to entice me to move).  I said that I wanted to stay at Boulders -- they then called me and told me that I wouldn't be very happy there as it would be me and a large group (because the group wasn't willing to move either).  I told them I was fine with that as we have traveled on our own many times before.  They then called me again and said the group was planning on booking up the dining room for dinners and we wouldn't be able to eat in the dining room and would likely have room service each night; our bomo dinner would have to be solo as the group had special requests and we weren't included.  I asked why they were pushing this so hard and they said that one party of the group wasn't going to be able to travel if we took up the last suite, to which I told them they should have the group shift their dates or move to Boulders.  They said they were firm on Boulders and their dates, just like I was (I was willing to shift my dates a bit, but it wasn't enough to accomodate the large group).  They kept hounding me about moving to Ebony, which I didn't want to do; they then offered to have me stay at Lebombo, which is another region of S. Africa (where I've already been), which didn't interest me at all.  After all the back and forth, with me standing firm on my room at Boulders, they e-mailed me and said they had bumped me from the lodge and they would work with me to put me somewhere else.  At that point I was done; I was happy to pay their prices for their level of service, but that pushed me over the edge.  I will probably never stay with them again (although their Rwanda lodge is enticing -- but One and Only is opening in Rwanda soon, so...).  They forsook my booking for the large group. They knew I wanted Boulders (and had already booked it), but they pushed me out to get a large booking.


----------



## AquaDame

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> It's a bit of a long story.  We have visited Singita Sabi Sands before.  We wanted to stay at Boulders Lodge next year and had booked a room for 5 nights there.  They contacted me (we were still finalizing the Rwanda and Tanzania portions of the trip) and asked if I would be willing to move to Ebony Lodge as they had a group that wanted to book all of Boulders for our dates.  I told them that I had stayed at Ebony before and did not want to stay again; they then offered me some lame promo that I wasn't interested in (to entice me to move).  I said that I wanted to stay at Boulders -- they then called me and told me that I wouldn't be very happy there as it would be me and a large group (because the group wasn't willing to move either).  I told them I was fine with that as we have traveled on our own many times before.  They then called me again and said the group was planning on booking up the dining room for dinners and we wouldn't be able to eat in the dining room and would likely have room service each night; our bomo dinner would have to be solo as the group had special requests and we weren't included.  I asked why they were pushing this so hard and they said that one party of the group wasn't going to be able to travel if we took up the last suite, to which I told them they should have the group shift their dates or move to Boulders.  They said they were firm on Boulders and their dates, just like I was (I was willing to shift my dates a bit, but it wasn't enough to accomodate the large group).  They kept hounding me about moving to Ebony, which I didn't want to do; they then offered to have me stay at Lebombo, which is another region of S. Africa (where I've already been), which didn't interest me at all.  After all the back and forth, with me standing firm on my room at Boulders, they e-mailed me and said they had bumped me from the lodge and they would work with me to put me somewhere else.  At that point I was done; I was happy to pay their prices for their level of service, but that pushed me over the edge.  I will probably never stay with them again (although their Rwanda lodge is enticing -- but One and Only is opening in Rwanda soon, so...).  They forsook my booking for the large group. They knew I wanted Boulders (and had already booked it), but they pushed me out to get a large booking.



I think I would be done with them as well. I understand trying to please the large group as they are bringing in a lot of money, but that is a level of hounding that I would not abide by. If they had canceled me from the get go I might have understood it was a business move but the way they dangled it and dragged it out somehow makes me MORE mad about it. They wasted your time too at that point. The moment they told me I couldn't have a normal dinner is when I would have written them off and left my review about it. After that I don't think I would have been happy under any circumstances that would make it easy to stay there.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

AquaDame said:


> May I ask what the shenanigans were? We also booked 17 months out as I know we are going during a peak time of year. Sadly the rains came early so we'll see if it pays off or not with our viewing but we tried.


Just wanted to say that there is _never_ a bad day when you are on game drives. I follow the Londolozi blogs (LOVE Londolozi) and there are lion and leopard cubs currently!! Also the rangers told us that during the rains, it only rains for a bit and it's not as bad as people think. There is something so special about Africa -- you are going to have an amazing time.

I'm not sure what lodges you are staying at, but usually the staff will bend over backwards to accommodate your requests.  When you arrive just tell them you want to do an air balloon ride and I'm sure they will do everything possible to book you.  For some reason they don't have the same sense of urgency that we tend to have (more like hakuna matata).

Please keep us updated as the time for your departure nears.  I'm sure things will work out.


----------



## AquaDame

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> Just wanted to say that there is _never_ a bad day when you are on game drives. I follow the Londolozi blogs (LOVE Londolozi) and there are lion and leopard cubs currently!! Also the rangers told us that during the rains, it only rains for a bit and it's not as bad as people think. There is something so special about Africa -- you are going to have an amazing time.
> 
> I'm not sure what lodges you are staying at, but usually the staff will bend over backwards to accommodate your requests.  When you arrive just tell them you want to do an air balloon ride and I'm sure they will do everything possible to book you.  For some reason they don't have the same sense of urgency that we tend to have (more like hakuna matata).
> 
> Please keep us updated as the time for your departure nears.  I'm sure things will work out.



Thank you - that does make me feel better! 

I suppose that's the nice thing about the migration... it has to be SOMEWHERE, so we will surely find it, even if its not on the river crossings.  We have a week split between the Maasai Mara and Serengeti in addition to several other areas on this trip. Gosh the more I think about this trip the more excited I am getting. I need to warn my husband that I am probably going to be in happy tears for the first few hours of the drives (and maybe some more as we go on).


----------



## RSM

We are a few weeks back from our trip to Vietnam and Cambodia trip with Thomson Family Adventures, and the whole experience was awesome.  This is our second trip with TFA and pre-trip service, itinerary and execution has been fantastic.  What we really appreciated about this trip and TFA are:
--We booked this trip as part of group tour.  It is billed as a Vietnam Culinary Adventure, and we added on the Cambodia extension.  Turns out, we were the only 3 (2 adults and 16 y/o son) that booked the tour.  So, it turned into a private tour.  We weren’t sure how this would work, but it turned out great.  Our guide in Vietnam was fantastic (more about that later).  He travelled through Vietnam with us.  Same for our guide in Cambodia.
--One of the things I like about TFA is the pre-trip touch bases.  After booking your trip, you work with the same trip specialist for questions, specific needs (e.g., food allergies), any modifications you may want to make to the itinerary, etc.  About every month coming up on your trip you get a quick email with either reminders of your trip or any due dates upcoming.  About 3 weeks before the trip, they send final paperwork and some swag (you get to pick what you want from a small catalogue).  Then about a week later they will set up a call with the trip specialist (if you want) to answer any questions you may have about the trip, itinerary, etc.  After a while, you really feel like you know your trip specialist and they are as invested in your trip as you are.
--The thing that drew us to this tour of Vietnam was the diversity of the itinerary.  In particular, was the 3-day;2-night tour of Halong Bay. It did not disappoint.  The “junket” and amenities on board were incredible.  Activities over the couple of days included kayaking, swimming, going through a cave, and biking to a village, along with cruising through the bay.  We were in a part of the area where there were not a lot of other tourist.  For most of the cruise no other boats were visible.  Even when we “parked” over night there were no more than 4 or 5 other boats in the area.  The crew said other parts are much more crowded.  Other parts of this excursion do follow much of the Vietnam ABD (Saigon, Hoi An, Hanoi, and Siem Reap)-we didn’t go to Laos.  There was a really good mix of activities in the cities, but also getting out into the smaller villages and spending time with some of the local people.  We found the people of Vietnam to be wonderful, caring people with a great sense of humor.  In many cases, although we didn’t share a common language, we found ourselves laughing along with the people.
--For Cambodia our main motivation was to go to Angkor Wat and the temple area.  We went and it was great.  But again, the most meaningful things were some of the lesser known (to us anyways) activities.  For example, we went to the Apopo center.  This is a place where rats are trained to sniff out land landmines and unexploded ordinances.   Cambodia still has >2 million landmines and unexploded ordinances, and large portions of land cannot be used until cleared.  Basically, what would take a human 3 days to do, can be done by a rat in 4 hours.       
--This ended up being a private tour which afforded a lot of flexibility to adjust the itinerary and do things we may not have been able to do with a group of 30-40.  For example, Marble Mountain was not on the original itinerary, but we were able to add it without skipping any other activity.  Our guide just adjusted a few things.  We were able to go to the top of the old CIA building where the last helicopter took off during the Vietnam war.  It took a little cajoling with the security guard as it is normally not open to the public, but our guide made it happen.     
--There are often posts about small groups vs. large groups.  For us, our bias has shifted from the large groups to small group or private.  We have found that what we value in the experience/adventure has shifted over the years.  Aside from the flexibility, we have found that we can get much more in-depth on the activity or experience in a smaller group.  As an example, the day of our cooking lesson in Vietnam, we were able to go into the markets with the chef who would be leading the class and shop for our food.  He explained what he looks for when he is shopping in the markets.  Given the size and space in the markets, this is possible only with a small group.  As our son has matured (and his attention span increased), what we value in the adventure has shifted to the more intimate experiences.  Five years ago, he would have been bored after 2 minutes of walking through a market with a chef talking about buying food.
--Both of our guides were fantastic.  We spent 13 days with our guide in Vietnam and 3 days with our guide in Cambodia.  Our guide in Vietnam simply made everything we asked for happen.  Even if we saw something on a van ride, and commented about it, we would find ourselves at that stop the next day even though it was not on the itinerary.  He would simply squeeze it in.  He picked up on a lot of thing as well. For example, my wife likes to keep the ticket stubs to the sites and places we go on a trip.  It then becomes part of the scrapbook/photo album.  Our guide noticed this after the first day, and on the last day presented her with a scrapbook of all the ticket stubs.   As another example, we had these coconut cookies or crackers that we really liked.  We mentioned we couldn’t find them in Hanoi and he said they were only available in Saigon.  No big deal for us, but when we saw him the last day, he had 5 cases of these cookies shipped up to Hanoi for us.  He just really exemplified “can do”.  Both guides were able to tell stories about the history of their country that captivated you, and we had great conversations about what it is like in America and how much of their perception is formed by the movies.
--This was billed as a Culinary Adventure, and it was certainly that.  I won’t go into everything we ate, but we tried many of the local “specialties”.  One bit of feedback we gave to Thomson was that there really wasn’t much of a selection of western food (other than breakfast buffets).  We understood that there was a food focus to the tour, but families with younger children may need a few more western meal options scattered throughout the tour.  On this tour, most days we could order from the menu, however, a few days were set menus (e.g., the food tour on a vespa).
--In terms of hotels, I think ABD tends to stay at higher end hotels than Thomson.  Although, for this tour I’d say the hotels are pretty comparable.  In fact, in Siem Reap we stay at the same hotel.  We saw the ABD group there.  In Saigon, the ABD hotel may be a little more upscale.  I’d say the resort in Hoi An and the hotels in Hanoi are pretty comparable.


----------



## Calfan

RSM said:


> We are a few weeks back from our trip to Vietnam and Cambodia trip with Thomson Family Adventures, and the whole experience was awesome.  This is our second trip with TFA and pre-trip service, itinerary and execution has been fantastic.  What we really appreciated about this trip and TFA are:
> --We booked this trip as part of group tour.  It is billed as a Vietnam Culinary Adventure, and we added on the Cambodia extension.  Turns out, we were the only 3 (2 adults and 16 y/o son) that booked the tour.  So, it turned into a private tour.  We weren’t sure how this would work, but it turned out great.  Our guide in Vietnam was fantastic (more about that later).  He travelled through Vietnam with us.  Same for our guide in Cambodia.
> --One of the things I like about TFA is the pre-trip touch bases.  After booking your trip, you work with the same trip specialist for questions, specific needs (e.g., food allergies), any modifications you may want to make to the itinerary, etc.  About every month coming up on your trip you get a quick email with either reminders of your trip or any due dates upcoming.  About 3 weeks before the trip, they send final paperwork and some swag (you get to pick what you want from a small catalogue).  Then about a week later they will set up a call with the trip specialist (if you want) to answer any questions you may have about the trip, itinerary, etc.  After a while, you really feel like you know your trip specialist and they are as invested in your trip as you are.
> --The thing that drew us to this tour of Vietnam was the diversity of the itinerary.  In particular, was the 3-day;2-night tour of Halong Bay. It did not disappoint.  The “junket” and amenities on board were incredible.  Activities over the couple of days included kayaking, swimming, going through a cave, and biking to a village, along with cruising through the bay.  We were in a part of the area where there were not a lot of other tourist.  For most of the cruise no other boats were visible.  Even when we “parked” over night there were no more than 4 or 5 other boats in the area.  The crew said other parts are much more crowded.  Other parts of this excursion do follow much of the Vietnam ABD (Saigon, Hoi An, Hanoi, and Siem Reap)-we didn’t go to Laos.  There was a really good mix of activities in the cities, but also getting out into the smaller villages and spending time with some of the local people.  We found the people of Vietnam to be wonderful, caring people with a great sense of humor.  In many cases, although we didn’t share a common language, we found ourselves laughing along with the people.
> --For Cambodia our main motivation was to go to Angkor Wat and the temple area.  We went and it was great.  But again, the most meaningful things were some of the lesser known (to us anyways) activities.  For example, we went to the Apopo center.  This is a place where rats are trained to sniff out land landmines and unexploded ordinances.   Cambodia still has >2 million landmines and unexploded ordinances, and large portions of land cannot be used until cleared.  Basically, what would take a human 3 days to do, can be done by a rat in 4 hours.
> --This ended up being a private tour which afforded a lot of flexibility to adjust the itinerary and do things we may not have been able to do with a group of 30-40.  For example, Marble Mountain was not on the original itinerary, but we were able to add it without skipping any other activity.  Our guide just adjusted a few things.  We were able to go to the top of the old CIA building where the last helicopter took off during the Vietnam war.  It took a little cajoling with the security guard as it is normally not open to the public, but our guide made it happen.
> --There are often posts about small groups vs. large groups.  For us, our bias has shifted from the large groups to small group or private.  We have found that what we value in the experience/adventure has shifted over the years.  Aside from the flexibility, we have found that we can get much more in-depth on the activity or experience in a smaller group.  As an example, the day of our cooking lesson in Vietnam, we were able to go into the markets with the chef who would be leading the class and shop for our food.  He explained what he looks for when he is shopping in the markets.  Given the size and space in the markets, this is possible only with a small group.  As our son has matured (and his attention span increased), what we value in the adventure has shifted to the more intimate experiences.  Five years ago, he would have been bored after 2 minutes of walking through a market with a chef talking about buying food.
> --Both of our guides were fantastic.  We spent 13 days with our guide in Vietnam and 3 days with our guide in Cambodia.  Our guide in Vietnam simply made everything we asked for happen.  Even if we saw something on a van ride, and commented about it, we would find ourselves at that stop the next day even though it was not on the itinerary.  He would simply squeeze it in.  He picked up on a lot of thing as well. For example, my wife likes to keep the ticket stubs to the sites and places we go on a trip.  It then becomes part of the scrapbook/photo album.  Our guide noticed this after the first day, and on the last day presented her with a scrapbook of all the ticket stubs.   As another example, we had these coconut cookies or crackers that we really liked.  We mentioned we couldn’t find them in Hanoi and he said they were only available in Saigon.  No big deal for us, but when we saw him the last day, he had 5 cases of these cookies shipped up to Hanoi for us.  He just really exemplified “can do”.  Both guides were able to tell stories about the history of their country that captivated you, and we had great conversations about what it is like in America and how much of their perception is formed by the movies.
> --This was billed as a Culinary Adventure, and it was certainly that.  I won’t go into everything we ate, but we tried many of the local “specialties”.  One bit of feedback we gave to Thomson was that there really wasn’t much of a selection of western food (other than breakfast buffets).  We understood that there was a food focus to the tour, but families with younger children may need a few more western meal options scattered throughout the tour.  On this tour, most days we could order from the menu, however, a few days were set menus (e.g., the food tour on a vespa).
> --In terms of hotels, I think ABD tends to stay at higher end hotels than Thomson.  Although, for this tour I’d say the hotels are pretty comparable.  In fact, in Siem Reap we stay at the same hotel.  We saw the ABD group there.  In Saigon, the ABD hotel may be a little more upscale.  I’d say the resort in Hoi An and the hotels in Hanoi are pretty comparable.



Great to get this feedback. Southeast Asia is on my list, with most of my interest being in Vietnam and the Angkor temples  in Cambodia. We’ve done China with Thomson and will be doing Japan with them next year. They might just end up being our *go to* for Asia, lol. Love that this itinerary includes Halong Bay.  For a while I thought we were going to have a private tour for China like you did on this one. We ended up with one other family, but it was a great fit and we still had the flexibility to change some things up as you describe. It’s so nice that Thomson guarantees their departures from the first booking.


----------



## RSM

Calfan said:


> Great to get this feedback. Southeast Asia is on my list, with most of my interest being in Vietnam and the Angkor temples  in Cambodia. We’ve done China with Thomson and will be doing Japan with them next year. They might just end up being our *go to* for Asia, lol. Love that this itinerary includes Halong Bay.  For a while I thought we were going to have a private tour for China like you did on this one. We ended up with one other family, but it was a great fit and we still had the flexibility to change some things up as you describe. It’s so nice that Thomson guarantees their departures from the first booking.


I think you'll like Thomson's Japan trip.  We did it last year.  We ended up adding on a couple of days to climb Mt. Fuji at the beginning, then going back to Tokyo for an additional 4 days at the end of the trip.


----------



## Calfan

RSM said:


> I think you'll like Thomson's Japan trip.  We did it last year.  We ended up adding on a couple of days to climb Mt. Fuji at the beginning, then going back to Tokyo for an additional 4 days at the end of the trip.



Awesome. We’ve arranged an overnight with Thomson to Mt. Fuji at the beginning of the trip (after 3 nights at Tokyo Disney on our own) and a Hiroshima extension at the end of the trip.


----------



## AddictedtoTravel

Thank you for your feedback on the Thomson Vietnam Culinary Adventure! I've had my eye on it. A culinary tour on a Vespa, how fun! We've done the ABD Southeast Asia trip and it ranks at the top of the list and was by far my favorite. I've been wanting to go back and was considering doing the ABD again or maybe on our own. The Thompson trip has enough different activities compared to the ABD that I think it would be a great option.


----------



## RSM

AddictedtoTravel said:


> Thank you for your feedback on the Thomson Vietnam Culinary Adventure! I've had my eye on it. A culinary tour on a Vespa, how fun! We've done the ABD Southeast Asia trip and it ranks at the top of the list and was by far my favorite. I've been wanting to go back and was considering doing the ABD again or maybe on our own. The Thompson trip has enough different activities compared to the ABD that I think it would be a great option.


There are a number of activities on the tour that really would be difficult to do with a large group.  It is hard to get a sense of it by reading the itinerary.  As an example, we read about the basket boat ride, and kind of said meh...  But it turned out to be a blast.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

RSM said:


> We are a few weeks back from our trip to Vietnam and Cambodia trip with Thomson Family Adventures, and the whole experience was awesome.  This is our second trip with TFA and pre-trip service, itinerary and execution has been fantastic.  What we really appreciated about this trip and TFA are:
> --We booked this trip as part of group tour.  It is billed as a Vietnam Culinary Adventure, and we added on the Cambodia extension.  Turns out, we were the only 3 (2 adults and 16 y/o son) that booked the tour.  So, it turned into a private tour.  We weren’t sure how this would work, but it turned out great.  Our guide in Vietnam was fantastic (more about that later).  He travelled through Vietnam with us.  Same for our guide in Cambodia.
> --One of the things I like about TFA is the pre-trip touch bases.  After booking your trip, you work with the same trip specialist for questions, specific needs (e.g., food allergies), any modifications you may want to make to the itinerary, etc.  About every month coming up on your trip you get a quick email with either reminders of your trip or any due dates upcoming.  About 3 weeks before the trip, they send final paperwork and some swag (you get to pick what you want from a small catalogue).  Then about a week later they will set up a call with the trip specialist (if you want) to answer any questions you may have about the trip, itinerary, etc.  After a while, you really feel like you know your trip specialist and they are as invested in your trip as you are.
> --The thing that drew us to this tour of Vietnam was the diversity of the itinerary.  In particular, was the 3-day;2-night tour of Halong Bay. It did not disappoint.  The “junket” and amenities on board were incredible.  Activities over the couple of days included kayaking, swimming, going through a cave, and biking to a village, along with cruising through the bay.  We were in a part of the area where there were not a lot of other tourist.  For most of the cruise no other boats were visible.  Even when we “parked” over night there were no more than 4 or 5 other boats in the area.  The crew said other parts are much more crowded.  Other parts of this excursion do follow much of the Vietnam ABD (Saigon, Hoi An, Hanoi, and Siem Reap)-we didn’t go to Laos.  There was a really good mix of activities in the cities, but also getting out into the smaller villages and spending time with some of the local people.  We found the people of Vietnam to be wonderful, caring people with a great sense of humor.  In many cases, although we didn’t share a common language, we found ourselves laughing along with the people.
> --For Cambodia our main motivation was to go to Angkor Wat and the temple area.  We went and it was great.  But again, the most meaningful things were some of the lesser known (to us anyways) activities.  For example, we went to the Apopo center.  This is a place where rats are trained to sniff out land landmines and unexploded ordinances.   Cambodia still has >2 million landmines and unexploded ordinances, and large portions of land cannot be used until cleared.  Basically, what would take a human 3 days to do, can be done by a rat in 4 hours.
> --This ended up being a private tour which afforded a lot of flexibility to adjust the itinerary and do things we may not have been able to do with a group of 30-40.  For example, Marble Mountain was not on the original itinerary, but we were able to add it without skipping any other activity.  Our guide just adjusted a few things.  We were able to go to the top of the old CIA building where the last helicopter took off during the Vietnam war.  It took a little cajoling with the security guard as it is normally not open to the public, but our guide made it happen.
> --There are often posts about small groups vs. large groups.  For us, our bias has shifted from the large groups to small group or private.  We have found that what we value in the experience/adventure has shifted over the years.  Aside from the flexibility, we have found that we can get much more in-depth on the activity or experience in a smaller group.  As an example, the day of our cooking lesson in Vietnam, we were able to go into the markets with the chef who would be leading the class and shop for our food.  He explained what he looks for when he is shopping in the markets.  Given the size and space in the markets, this is possible only with a small group.  As our son has matured (and his attention span increased), what we value in the adventure has shifted to the more intimate experiences.  Five years ago, he would have been bored after 2 minutes of walking through a market with a chef talking about buying food.
> --Both of our guides were fantastic.  We spent 13 days with our guide in Vietnam and 3 days with our guide in Cambodia.  Our guide in Vietnam simply made everything we asked for happen.  Even if we saw something on a van ride, and commented about it, we would find ourselves at that stop the next day even though it was not on the itinerary.  He would simply squeeze it in.  He picked up on a lot of thing as well. For example, my wife likes to keep the ticket stubs to the sites and places we go on a trip.  It then becomes part of the scrapbook/photo album.  Our guide noticed this after the first day, and on the last day presented her with a scrapbook of all the ticket stubs.   As another example, we had these coconut cookies or crackers that we really liked.  We mentioned we couldn’t find them in Hanoi and he said they were only available in Saigon.  No big deal for us, but when we saw him the last day, he had 5 cases of these cookies shipped up to Hanoi for us.  He just really exemplified “can do”.  Both guides were able to tell stories about the history of their country that captivated you, and we had great conversations about what it is like in America and how much of their perception is formed by the movies.
> --This was billed as a Culinary Adventure, and it was certainly that.  I won’t go into everything we ate, but we tried many of the local “specialties”.  One bit of feedback we gave to Thomson was that there really wasn’t much of a selection of western food (other than breakfast buffets).  We understood that there was a food focus to the tour, but families with younger children may need a few more western meal options scattered throughout the tour.  On this tour, most days we could order from the menu, however, a few days were set menus (e.g., the food tour on a vespa).
> --In terms of hotels, I think ABD tends to stay at higher end hotels than Thomson.  Although, for this tour I’d say the hotels are pretty comparable.  In fact, in Siem Reap we stay at the same hotel.  We saw the ABD group there.  In Saigon, the ABD hotel may be a little more upscale.  I’d say the resort in Hoi An and the hotels in Hanoi are pretty comparable.


Wow, that sounds amazing! SEA is high on my list as well. Halong Bay is high on my list and could definitely pull me over to Thompson. Like you, I'm pretty sold on the smaller groups from now on. I do love my fancy hotels, though. Any sense of whether there is an ability to choose more upscale hotels when available?


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

RSM said:


> We are a few weeks back from our trip to Vietnam and Cambodia trip with Thomson Family Adventures, and the whole experience was awesome.  This is our second trip with TFA and pre-trip service, itinerary and execution has been fantastic.  What we really appreciated about this trip and TFA are:
> --We booked this trip as part of group tour.  It is billed as a Vietnam Culinary Adventure, and we added on the Cambodia extension.  Turns out, we were the only 3 (2 adults and 16 y/o son) that booked the tour.  So, it turned into a private tour.  We weren’t sure how this would work, but it turned out great.  Our guide in Vietnam was fantastic (more about that later).  He travelled through Vietnam with us.  Same for our guide in Cambodia.
> --One of the things I like about TFA is the pre-trip touch bases.  After booking your trip, you work with the same trip specialist for questions, specific needs (e.g., food allergies), any modifications you may want to make to the itinerary, etc.  About every month coming up on your trip you get a quick email with either reminders of your trip or any due dates upcoming.  About 3 weeks before the trip, they send final paperwork and some swag (you get to pick what you want from a small catalogue).  Then about a week later they will set up a call with the trip specialist (if you want) to answer any questions you may have about the trip, itinerary, etc.  After a while, you really feel like you know your trip specialist and they are as invested in your trip as you are.
> --The thing that drew us to this tour of Vietnam was the diversity of the itinerary.  In particular, was the 3-day;2-night tour of Halong Bay. It did not disappoint.  The “junket” and amenities on board were incredible.  Activities over the couple of days included kayaking, swimming, going through a cave, and biking to a village, along with cruising through the bay.  We were in a part of the area where there were not a lot of other tourist.  For most of the cruise no other boats were visible.  Even when we “parked” over night there were no more than 4 or 5 other boats in the area.  The crew said other parts are much more crowded.  Other parts of this excursion do follow much of the Vietnam ABD (Saigon, Hoi An, Hanoi, and Siem Reap)-we didn’t go to Laos.  There was a really good mix of activities in the cities, but also getting out into the smaller villages and spending time with some of the local people.  We found the people of Vietnam to be wonderful, caring people with a great sense of humor.  In many cases, although we didn’t share a common language, we found ourselves laughing along with the people.
> --For Cambodia our main motivation was to go to Angkor Wat and the temple area.  We went and it was great.  But again, the most meaningful things were some of the lesser known (to us anyways) activities.  For example, we went to the Apopo center.  This is a place where rats are trained to sniff out land landmines and unexploded ordinances.   Cambodia still has >2 million landmines and unexploded ordinances, and large portions of land cannot be used until cleared.  Basically, what would take a human 3 days to do, can be done by a rat in 4 hours.
> --This ended up being a private tour which afforded a lot of flexibility to adjust the itinerary and do things we may not have been able to do with a group of 30-40.  For example, Marble Mountain was not on the original itinerary, but we were able to add it without skipping any other activity.  Our guide just adjusted a few things.  We were able to go to the top of the old CIA building where the last helicopter took off during the Vietnam war.  It took a little cajoling with the security guard as it is normally not open to the public, but our guide made it happen.
> --There are often posts about small groups vs. large groups.  For us, our bias has shifted from the large groups to small group or private.  We have found that what we value in the experience/adventure has shifted over the years.  Aside from the flexibility, we have found that we can get much more in-depth on the activity or experience in a smaller group.  As an example, the day of our cooking lesson in Vietnam, we were able to go into the markets with the chef who would be leading the class and shop for our food.  He explained what he looks for when he is shopping in the markets.  Given the size and space in the markets, this is possible only with a small group.  As our son has matured (and his attention span increased), what we value in the adventure has shifted to the more intimate experiences.  Five years ago, he would have been bored after 2 minutes of walking through a market with a chef talking about buying food.
> --Both of our guides were fantastic.  We spent 13 days with our guide in Vietnam and 3 days with our guide in Cambodia.  Our guide in Vietnam simply made everything we asked for happen.  Even if we saw something on a van ride, and commented about it, we would find ourselves at that stop the next day even though it was not on the itinerary.  He would simply squeeze it in.  He picked up on a lot of thing as well. For example, my wife likes to keep the ticket stubs to the sites and places we go on a trip.  It then becomes part of the scrapbook/photo album.  Our guide noticed this after the first day, and on the last day presented her with a scrapbook of all the ticket stubs.   As another example, we had these coconut cookies or crackers that we really liked.  We mentioned we couldn’t find them in Hanoi and he said they were only available in Saigon.  No big deal for us, but when we saw him the last day, he had 5 cases of these cookies shipped up to Hanoi for us.  He just really exemplified “can do”.  Both guides were able to tell stories about the history of their country that captivated you, and we had great conversations about what it is like in America and how much of their perception is formed by the movies.
> --This was billed as a Culinary Adventure, and it was certainly that.  I won’t go into everything we ate, but we tried many of the local “specialties”.  One bit of feedback we gave to Thomson was that there really wasn’t much of a selection of western food (other than breakfast buffets).  We understood that there was a food focus to the tour, but families with younger children may need a few more western meal options scattered throughout the tour.  On this tour, most days we could order from the menu, however, a few days were set menus (e.g., the food tour on a vespa).
> --In terms of hotels, I think ABD tends to stay at higher end hotels than Thomson.  Although, for this tour I’d say the hotels are pretty comparable.  In fact, in Siem Reap we stay at the same hotel.  We saw the ABD group there.  In Saigon, the ABD hotel may be a little more upscale.  I’d say the resort in Hoi An and the hotels in Hanoi are pretty comparable.


Thank you so much for sharing your experience with Thomson Family Adventures!  How lucky that you were the only family on the trip.  I am very impressed with the level of service that you received.  I looked over the trip and I must say you have enticed me into seriously considering it.  I was looking only at ABD previously because they hit Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia, but your trip with the Halong Bay cruise seems very nice as well.  Plus your group size, well, can't beat that!


----------



## tink1970

WDWmom08 said:


> Has anyone heard of or had experience with Scott Dunn? They have a great looking family Scotland itinerary.




I'm working with them for a trip next summer and so far I'm very happy. I'll report back next year after we return (and I'm still taking out trip insurance!).


----------



## WDWmom08

tink1970 said:


> I'm working with them for a trip next summer and so far I'm very happy. I'll report back next year after we return (and I'm still taking out trip insurance!).


Great, thanks. I look forward to hearing about it. I did talk to someone there and it seems that they are all private custom trips which I have mixed feelings about. While I think 45 people is too many I do like traveling in a group. Also, unfortunately, the website prices are much lower than actual costs.


----------



## RSM

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> Wow, that sounds amazing! SEA is high on my list as well. Halong Bay is high on my list and could definitely pull me over to Thompson. Like you, I'm pretty sold on the smaller groups from now on. I do love my fancy hotels, though. Any sense of whether there is an ability to choose more upscale hotels when available?


  For this trip, I think the hotels were pretty comparable.  Although, I'm just basing that on looking at the website for the ABD hotels and trying to compare it to where we stayed.  For the Thomson Japan trip we did last year, I would say ABD definitely uses more luxury class hotels.  My sense is that Thomson would work with you on upscaling any hotels.  This seems to be especially true if you are the first one to sign up.  When we asked about adding Marble Mountain and a few other things, they indicated that it was no problem, and they would give others the option to go if they joined the tour.  If others had joined and it was only us, they would have gotten another driver for us.  No one else joined so it was a moot point.  So, overall they are pretty flexible.  Wouldn't hurt to ask.  But for this trip I'm not sure there is a huge difference in hotel quality.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Awesome, thanks so much. Sounds like a great trip, and the small trip is so enticing.


----------



## cschaaf

RSM said:


> We are a few weeks back from our trip to Vietnam and Cambodia trip with Thomson Family Adventures, ...


This sounds like a great trip! We might have crossed paths at the hotel in Siem Reap.



*WDW*Groupie* said:


> Thank you so much for sharing your experience with Thomson Family Adventures!  How lucky that you were the only family on the trip.  I am very impressed with the level of service that you received.  I looked over the trip and I must say you have enticed me into seriously considering it.  I was looking only at ABD previously because they hit Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia, but your trip with the Halong Bay cruise seems very nice as well.  Plus your group size, well, can't beat that!


We chose the ABD and added Ha Long Bay on our own - it's very easy to do on your own. The cruise companies will all offer some kind of transfer from and back to Hanoi.


----------



## RSM

cschaaf said:


> This sounds like a great trip! We might have crossed paths at the hotel in Siem Reap.


We may have.  We saw a number of ABD people at breakfast one morning.  We also ran into an ABD group (conspicuous by the paddle) in Hoi An.


----------



## tink1970

WDWmom08 said:


> Great, thanks. I look forward to hearing about it. I did talk to someone there and it seems that they are all private custom trips which I have mixed feelings about. While I think 45 people is too many I do like traveling in a group. Also, unfortunately, the website prices are much lower than actual costs.



I completely understand but this trip is coming off of a group tour in Scotland so I figured DH and I (both introverts) will need some down time from a small group of people. When I have my DD, I prefer group tours  since she's an only and enjoys other young adults (mom and step dad are booooring). 

I sort of looked at two of their longer tours and diced and spliced and came up with an itinerary which was exactly what I wanted and the cost was less than the budget I provided them, so I'm very pleased. If all goes well in on our tour, I'll likely use them as my primary tour company for places they service.

 ABD has gotten large and more importantly, is going places I don't have any interest in visiting and Thompson doesn't usually have the level of hotels I'd like and frankly, on vacation I like to relax, not hike/cycle/etc. Tauck has become my go to for small tours but sometimes just doing a place on my own is a good option to have.  Thankfully there appears to be travel operators for everyone


----------



## WDWmom08

tink1970 said:


> I completely understand but this trip is coming off of a group tour in Scotland so I figured DH and I (both introverts) will need some down time from a small group of people. When I have my DD, I prefer group tours  since she's an only and enjoys other young adults (mom and step dad are booooring).
> 
> I sort of looked at two of their longer tours and diced and spliced and came up with an itinerary which was exactly what I wanted and the cost was less than the budget I provided them, so I'm very pleased. If all goes well in on our tour, I'll likely use them as my primary tour company for places they service.
> 
> ABD has gotten large and more importantly, is going places I don't have any interest in visiting and Thompson doesn't usually have the level of hotels I'd like and frankly, on vacation I like to relax, not hike/cycle/etc. Tauck has become my go to for small tours but sometimes just doing a place on my own is a good option to have.  Thankfully there appears to be travel operators for everyone



I agree with so much of what you said.  My DD is not only an only child but was an only grandchild up until this year so we like the groups albeit smaller is preferred.  She enjoys meeting new friends and that vacation bond with the other kids.

I agree totally about the group numbers of ABD being a deterrent.  And also your points about Thompson.  It seems like the hotels Thompson uses are 4 and 5 star but then they will slip in a sketchier 3 star.  And also their activity level, I don't mind a few walking tours, hikes, or a single sport excursion but am definitely not into the multi-sport adventures.

We are looking at Ireland or Scotland.  When I looked at the Scott Dunn website it had a 7 day teen Scotland starting at $3800 to $4500 and a 9 day Ireland for families starting at $4500 to $5000.  When I spoke to the rep she stated that the norm is $800 - $1000 per person per day so that really changes those numbers.

I might have to revisit Tauck.  Thanks for the info!


----------



## AddictedtoTravel

RSM said:


> We are a few weeks back from our trip to Vietnam and Cambodia trip with Thomson Family Adventures, and the whole experience was awesome.  This is our second trip with TFA and pre-trip service, itinerary and execution has been fantastic.  What we really appreciated about this trip and TFA are:
> --We booked this trip as part of group tour.  It is billed as a Vietnam Culinary Adventure, and we added on the Cambodia extension.  Turns out, we were the only 3 (2 adults and 16 y/o son) that booked the tour.  So, it turned into a private tour.  We weren’t sure how this would work, but it turned out great.  Our guide in Vietnam was fantastic (more about that later).  He travelled through Vietnam with us.  Same for our guide in Cambodia.
> --One of the things I like about TFA is the pre-trip touch bases.  After booking your trip, you work with the same trip specialist for questions, specific needs (e.g., food allergies), any modifications you may want to make to the itinerary, etc.  About every month coming up on your trip you get a quick email with either reminders of your trip or any due dates upcoming.  About 3 weeks before the trip, they send final paperwork and some swag (you get to pick what you want from a small catalogue).  Then about a week later they will set up a call with the trip specialist (if you want) to answer any questions you may have about the trip, itinerary, etc.  After a while, you really feel like you know your trip specialist and they are as invested in your trip as you are.
> --The thing that drew us to this tour of Vietnam was the diversity of the itinerary.  In particular, was the 3-day;2-night tour of Halong Bay. It did not disappoint.  The “junket” and amenities on board were incredible.  Activities over the couple of days included kayaking, swimming, going through a cave, and biking to a village, along with cruising through the bay.  We were in a part of the area where there were not a lot of other tourist.  For most of the cruise no other boats were visible.  Even when we “parked” over night there were no more than 4 or 5 other boats in the area.  The crew said other parts are much more crowded.  Other parts of this excursion do follow much of the Vietnam ABD (Saigon, Hoi An, Hanoi, and Siem Reap)-we didn’t go to Laos.  There was a really good mix of activities in the cities, but also getting out into the smaller villages and spending time with some of the local people.  We found the people of Vietnam to be wonderful, caring people with a great sense of humor.  In many cases, although we didn’t share a common language, we found ourselves laughing along with the people.
> --For Cambodia our main motivation was to go to Angkor Wat and the temple area.  We went and it was great.  But again, the most meaningful things were some of the lesser known (to us anyways) activities.  For example, we went to the Apopo center.  This is a place where rats are trained to sniff out land landmines and unexploded ordinances.   Cambodia still has >2 million landmines and unexploded ordinances, and large portions of land cannot be used until cleared.  Basically, what would take a human 3 days to do, can be done by a rat in 4 hours.
> --This ended up being a private tour which afforded a lot of flexibility to adjust the itinerary and do things we may not have been able to do with a group of 30-40.  For example, Marble Mountain was not on the original itinerary, but we were able to add it without skipping any other activity.  Our guide just adjusted a few things.  We were able to go to the top of the old CIA building where the last helicopter took off during the Vietnam war.  It took a little cajoling with the security guard as it is normally not open to the public, but our guide made it happen.
> --There are often posts about small groups vs. large groups.  For us, our bias has shifted from the large groups to small group or private.  We have found that what we value in the experience/adventure has shifted over the years.  Aside from the flexibility, we have found that we can get much more in-depth on the activity or experience in a smaller group.  As an example, the day of our cooking lesson in Vietnam, we were able to go into the markets with the chef who would be leading the class and shop for our food.  He explained what he looks for when he is shopping in the markets.  Given the size and space in the markets, this is possible only with a small group.  As our son has matured (and his attention span increased), what we value in the adventure has shifted to the more intimate experiences.  Five years ago, he would have been bored after 2 minutes of walking through a market with a chef talking about buying food.
> --Both of our guides were fantastic.  We spent 13 days with our guide in Vietnam and 3 days with our guide in Cambodia.  Our guide in Vietnam simply made everything we asked for happen.  Even if we saw something on a van ride, and commented about it, we would find ourselves at that stop the next day even though it was not on the itinerary.  He would simply squeeze it in.  He picked up on a lot of thing as well. For example, my wife likes to keep the ticket stubs to the sites and places we go on a trip.  It then becomes part of the scrapbook/photo album.  Our guide noticed this after the first day, and on the last day presented her with a scrapbook of all the ticket stubs.   As another example, we had these coconut cookies or crackers that we really liked.  We mentioned we couldn’t find them in Hanoi and he said they were only available in Saigon.  No big deal for us, but when we saw him the last day, he had 5 cases of these cookies shipped up to Hanoi for us.  He just really exemplified “can do”.  Both guides were able to tell stories about the history of their country that captivated you, and we had great conversations about what it is like in America and how much of their perception is formed by the movies.
> --This was billed as a Culinary Adventure, and it was certainly that.  I won’t go into everything we ate, but we tried many of the local “specialties”.  One bit of feedback we gave to Thomson was that there really wasn’t much of a selection of western food (other than breakfast buffets).  We understood that there was a food focus to the tour, but families with younger children may need a few more western meal options scattered throughout the tour.  On this tour, most days we could order from the menu, however, a few days were set menus (e.g., the food tour on a vespa).
> --In terms of hotels, I think ABD tends to stay at higher end hotels than Thomson.  Although, for this tour I’d say the hotels are pretty comparable.  In fact, in Siem Reap we stay at the same hotel.  We saw the ABD group there.  In Saigon, the ABD hotel may be a little more upscale.  I’d say the resort in Hoi An and the hotels in Hanoi are pretty comparable.


What was the weather like? We went on the ABD trip in December and enjoyed cooler temps and little rain. I am looking at the Thompson June departure next year.


----------



## RSM

Funny you should ask.  It was really hot and humid.  On average Saigon was about 92, with 80-85% humidity.  Hoi An and Hanoi were about 100 degrees, with 80-85% humidity.  A bit cooler on the bay (high 80's low 90's), but still really humid.  Most days were pretty sunny.  We had a couple of days that were partially overcast, and we had 2 or 3 days where it would rain pretty heavily for 20-30 minutes then clear.  This was mostly in the afternoon.  Cambodia was high 80's, low 90's and similar humidity.  We are from Massachusetts and think 65% humidity is oppressive   We knew going in that it would be hot and humid, but there is no real way to prepare for it.  Can't tell you how many bottles of water/day we drank.  After a few days though we found that we adjusted.  But getting into AC certainly helped.


----------



## laceltris3

WDWmom08 said:


> I agree with so much of what you said.  My DD is not only an only child but was an only grandchild up until this year so we like the groups albeit smaller is preferred.  She enjoys meeting new friends and that vacation bond with the other kids.
> 
> I agree totally about the group numbers of ABD being a deterrent.  And also your points about Thompson.  It seems like the hotels Thompson uses are 4 and 5 star but then they will slip in a sketchier 3 star.  And also their activity level, I don't mind a few walking tours, hikes, or a single sport excursion but am definitely not into the multi-sport adventures.
> 
> We are looking at Ireland or Scotland.  When I looked at the Scott Dunn website it had a 7 day teen Scotland starting at $3800 to $4500 and a 9 day Ireland for families starting at $4500 to $5000.  When I spoke to the rep she stated that the norm is $800 - $1000 per person per day so that really changes those numbers.
> 
> I might have to revisit Tauck.  Thanks for the info!



We did Ireland with Tauck Bridges last summer and it is one of our favorite trips of all time. The itinerary is so much fun and the hotels and meals were amazing.


----------



## cschaaf

RSM said:


> Funny you should ask.  It was really hot and humid.  On average Saigon was about 92, with 80-85% humidity.  Hoi An and Hanoi were about 100 degrees, with 80-85% humidity.  A bit cooler on the bay (high 80's low 90's), but still really humid.  Most days were pretty sunny.  We had a couple of days that were partially overcast, and we had 2 or 3 days where it would rain pretty heavily for 20-30 minutes then clear.  This was mostly in the afternoon.  Cambodia was high 80's, low 90's and similar humidity.  We are from Massachusetts and think 65% humidity is oppressive   We knew going in that it would be hot and humid, but there is no real way to prepare for it.  Can't tell you how many bottles of water/day we drank.  After a few days though we found that we adjusted.  But getting into AC certainly helped.


We were there around the same time - if not the same time. It was hot and humid everywhere we went. I think the hottest we experienced was a pre-trip day in Ninh Binh, Vietnam. Laos was very hot, too.

Our time at Angkor Wat was also hot and there is very little shade.

We're from southwest Georgia, so the heat and humidity wasn't anything new to us, but we aren't outside nearly as much here as we were there.

We got very lucky with the rain. It rained pretty much all day on a pre-trip day in Hanoi, but we were able to move stuff around and do some indoor things. It rained once in Laos, a 'medium' shower, but we were in a temple wen it happened. And on our last day in Siem Reap, it poured - but we were already back at the hotel for the evening. The farewell dinner got moved inside, but no one was complaining about the AC.


----------



## Candycane83

Has anyone used Kensington Tours? I’m thinking of adding touring to Seville Granada and Madrid for a few days after our ABD and cruise but can’t find a good way to arrange all the travel after for those places. Saw Kensington Tours can do custom tours... wanted to see if anyone had experience with them.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Candycane83 said:


> Has anyone used Kensington Tours? I’m thinking of adding touring to Seville Granada and Madrid for a few days after our ABD and cruise but can’t find a good way to arrange all the travel after for those places. Saw Kensington Tours can do custom tours... wanted to see if anyone had experience with them.


I haven't used them but met someone on my travels that uses them all the time and they raved about them.  I contacted them about putting together a Japan itinerary for me and they were amazing to deal with.


----------



## Candycane83

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I haven't used them but met someone on my travels that uses them all the time and they raved about them.  I contacted them about putting together a Japan itinerary for me and they were amazing to deal with.


Thanks!l for the feedback!


----------



## Aelin1977

Haven't seen this mentioned on here so thought I would put it out there. 

National Geographic is now a Disney property. When Disney purchased Fox, they purchased National Geographic as well, which was owned by Fox. This means that National Geographic Expeditions is now a part of Disney as well. 

I'm not trying to convince people not to use Nat Geo for their future trips. That is a decision everyone has to make for themselves. We won't be travelling with them but that decision was made long before we knew they were now a property of Disney and is a reflection of the issues we had dealing with them, not their current ownership.


----------



## Cousin Orville

A few weeks ago I mentioned how our Travel agent arranging our Morocco trip went insolvent.  While we carry an annual global medical policy and a seperate global evacuation policy, we don’t buy individual travel insurance policies which would cover trip interruptions, baggage loss, other issues and sometimes insolvency.  Basically, I purchase due to the amount of travel we do, I purchase policies to insure against issues that could get extremely expensive and self-insure against issues that are not financially catastrophic for us especially as we are in good health as are our parents.

Ok, so we didn’t take out a seperate travel insurance policy on the Morocco trip.  The trip was booked with a Conde Naste recommended travel specialist and was ranked as one of the best in Nat Geo Traveler, T&L, Virtuoso.  Needless to say, none of these groups had a clue of Heritage’s mismanagement.

So, when we figured out what was going on, as I wrote about a few wks ago, we called out CC’s.   We happened to book with 2 Chase cards. We put $10k on one as a deposit and $10k on another as a partial payment.  I wish I could say this was by design, but it was just because we were changing what cards we paid with travel for points.  They both covered up to $10k due to insolvency.  The both reimbursed us the full amount.  Obviously we lucked out the cards we used had large coverage amounts. And we lucked out we discovered their insolvency before we paid any more which we not have recovered.

Certainly, there’s lessons to be learned here.  Thankfully it’s pretty rare, and it could have been a lot worse.  I can’t imagine landing in Morocco with kids and no place to go.  Anyway.  We’ll still go to Morocco, but it will be a couple of years as our Winter Trips are pretty much planned out.  Not sure what we’re doing this Christmas.  Possibly Croatia on our own.  If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask!


----------



## Calfan

Cousin Orville said:


> A few weeks ago I mentioned how our Travel agent arranging our Morocco trip went insolvent.  While we carry an annual global medical policy and a seperate global evacuation policy, we don’t buy individual travel insurance policies which would cover trip interruptions, baggage loss, other issues and sometimes insolvency.  Basically, I purchase due to the amount of travel we do, I purchase policies to insure against issues that could get extremely expensive and self-insure against issues that are not financially catastrophic for us especially as we are in good health as are our parents.
> 
> Ok, so we didn’t take out a seperate travel insurance policy on the Morocco trip.  The trip was booked with a Conde Naste recommended travel specialist and was ranked as one of the best in Nat Geo Traveler, T&L, Virtuoso.  Needless to say, none of these groups had a clue of Heritage’s mismanagement.
> 
> So, when we figured out what was going on, as I wrote about a few wks ago, we called out CC’s.   We happened to book with 2 Chase cards. We put $10k on one as a deposit and $10k on another as a partial payment.  I wish I could say this was by design, but it was just because we were changing what cards we paid with travel for points.  They both covered up to $10k due to insolvency.  The both reimbursed us the full amount.  Obviously we lucked out the cards we used had large coverage amounts. And we lucked out we discovered their insolvency before we paid any more which we not have recovered.
> 
> Certainly, there’s lessons to be learned here.  Thankfully it’s pretty rare, and it could have been a lot worse.  I can’t imagine landing in Morocco with kids and no place to go.  Anyway.  We’ll still go to Morocco, but it will be a couple of years as our Winter Trips are pretty much planned out.  Not sure what we’re doing this Christmas.  Possibly Croatia on our own.  If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask!



So glad you were able to recover what you had paid!


----------



## sayhello

Cousin Orville said:


> A few weeks ago I mentioned how our Travel agent arranging our Morocco trip went insolvent.  While we carry an annual global medical policy and a seperate global evacuation policy, we don’t buy individual travel insurance policies which would cover trip interruptions, baggage loss, other issues and sometimes insolvency.  Basically, I purchase due to the amount of travel we do, I purchase policies to insure against issues that could get extremely expensive and self-insure against issues that are not financially catastrophic for us especially as we are in good health as are our parents.
> 
> Ok, so we didn’t take out a seperate travel insurance policy on the Morocco trip.  The trip was booked with a Conde Naste recommended travel specialist and was ranked as one of the best in Nat Geo Traveler, T&L, Virtuoso.  Needless to say, none of these groups had a clue of Heritage’s mismanagement.
> 
> So, when we figured out what was going on, as I wrote about a few wks ago, we called out CC’s.   We happened to book with 2 Chase cards. We put $10k on one as a deposit and $10k on another as a partial payment.  I wish I could say this was by design, but it was just because we were changing what cards we paid with travel for points.  They both covered up to $10k due to insolvency.  The both reimbursed us the full amount.  Obviously we lucked out the cards we used had large coverage amounts. And we lucked out we discovered their insolvency before we paid any more which we not have recovered.
> 
> Certainly, there’s lessons to be learned here.  Thankfully it’s pretty rare, and it could have been a lot worse.  I can’t imagine landing in Morocco with kids and no place to go.  Anyway.  We’ll still go to Morocco, but it will be a couple of years as our Winter Trips are pretty much planned out.  Not sure what we’re doing this Christmas.  Possibly Croatia on our own.  If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask!


Wow!  That was really lucky that you had split up the payments that way.  When folks tell me they don't get insurance because their cc covers them, I always warn them to check on the limits.  SO glad you were able to recoup your losses!  I wonder how many people out there are not yet aware that Heritage has gone under?  That is so scary.  Seems like this is pretty much the best outcome to expect from such a bad situation.

Sayhello


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Cousin Orville said:


> A few weeks ago I mentioned how our Travel agent arranging our Morocco trip went insolvent.  While we carry an annual global medical policy and a seperate global evacuation policy, we don’t buy individual travel insurance policies which would cover trip interruptions, baggage loss, other issues and sometimes insolvency.  Basically, I purchase due to the amount of travel we do, I purchase policies to insure against issues that could get extremely expensive and self-insure against issues that are not financially catastrophic for us especially as we are in good health as are our parents.
> 
> Ok, so we didn’t take out a seperate travel insurance policy on the Morocco trip.  The trip was booked with a Conde Naste recommended travel specialist and was ranked as one of the best in Nat Geo Traveler, T&L, Virtuoso.  Needless to say, none of these groups had a clue of Heritage’s mismanagement.
> 
> So, when we figured out what was going on, as I wrote about a few wks ago, we called out CC’s.   We happened to book with 2 Chase cards. We put $10k on one as a deposit and $10k on another as a partial payment.  I wish I could say this was by design, but it was just because we were changing what cards we paid with travel for points.  They both covered up to $10k due to insolvency.  The both reimbursed us the full amount.  Obviously we lucked out the cards we used had large coverage amounts. And we lucked out we discovered their insolvency before we paid any more which we not have recovered.
> 
> Certainly, there’s lessons to be learned here.  Thankfully it’s pretty rare, and it could have been a lot worse.  I can’t imagine landing in Morocco with kids and no place to go.  Anyway.  We’ll still go to Morocco, but it will be a couple of years as our Winter Trips are pretty much planned out.  Not sure what we’re doing this Christmas.  Possibly Croatia on our own.  If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask!


I wish there was room for you to join us on the December Peru ABD. 

I am so glad everything worked out for your family getting the deposit back.  I can't believe such a highly regarded company went bankrupt -- very sad.


----------



## Rapunzellover

Cousin O--  given the company went bankrupt, I'd still try and look into becoming part of whatever class action suit is likely going on.  You might get some extra dollars in compensation.  You deserve it for this headache.  

Thank heavens that ABD, no matter its issues, isn't going to ever go bankrupt.  Even if it is one day shuttered, nothing Disney related is filing bankruptcy.


----------



## Cousin Orville

Rapunzellover said:


> Cousin O--  given the company went bankrupt, I'd still try and look into becoming part of whatever class action suit is likely going on.  You might get some extra dollars in compensation.  You deserve it for this headache.
> 
> Thank heavens that ABD, no matter its issues, isn't going to ever go bankrupt.  Even if it is one day shuttered, nothing Disney related is filing bankruptcy.



I wouldn’t blame anyone for trying, but honestly not worth my time.  Onward to more positive experiences!


----------



## Cousin Orville

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I wish there was room for you to join us on the December Peru ABD.
> 
> I am so glad everything worked out for your family getting the deposit back.  I can't believe such a highly regarded company went bankrupt -- very sad.



Thanks for thinking of us, but we’re doing Peru and Bolivia next spring.  But let me know if you have any Peru tips!  I look forward to hearing how goes.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Cousin Orville said:


> A few weeks ago I mentioned how our Travel agent arranging our Morocco trip went insolvent.  While we carry an annual global medical policy and a seperate global evacuation policy, we don’t buy individual travel insurance policies which would cover trip interruptions, baggage loss, other issues and sometimes insolvency.  Basically, I purchase due to the amount of travel we do, I purchase policies to insure against issues that could get extremely expensive and self-insure against issues that are not financially catastrophic for us especially as we are in good health as are our parents.
> 
> Ok, so we didn’t take out a seperate travel insurance policy on the Morocco trip.  The trip was booked with a Conde Naste recommended travel specialist and was ranked as one of the best in Nat Geo Traveler, T&L, Virtuoso.  Needless to say, none of these groups had a clue of Heritage’s mismanagement.
> 
> So, when we figured out what was going on, as I wrote about a few wks ago, we called out CC’s.   We happened to book with 2 Chase cards. We put $10k on one as a deposit and $10k on another as a partial payment.  I wish I could say this was by design, but it was just because we were changing what cards we paid with travel for points.  They both covered up to $10k due to insolvency.  The both reimbursed us the full amount.  Obviously we lucked out the cards we used had large coverage amounts. And we lucked out we discovered their insolvency before we paid any more which we not have recovered.
> 
> Certainly, there’s lessons to be learned here.  Thankfully it’s pretty rare, and it could have been a lot worse.  I can’t imagine landing in Morocco with kids and no place to go.  Anyway.  We’ll still go to Morocco, but it will be a couple of years as our Winter Trips are pretty much planned out.  Not sure what we’re doing this Christmas.  Possibly Croatia on our own.  If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask!



Thank you so much for posting about your experience, and I ditto @sayhello--so fortunate that you split the transaction. Your experience has already paid it forward for us--I've turned a much more skeptical eye on "awards" and the like, and I will be keeping your experience in mind going forward to makes sure we are always protected in cases like this (either with insurance or credit cards). So sorry you have to miss your trip, but as you said, it could have been much worse.


----------



## KEK1

Cousin Orville said:


> A few weeks ago I mentioned how our Travel agent arranging our Morocco trip went insolvent.  While we carry an annual global medical policy and a seperate global evacuation policy, we don’t buy individual travel insurance policies which would cover trip interruptions, baggage loss, other issues and sometimes insolvency.  Basically, I purchase due to the amount of travel we do, I purchase policies to insure against issues that could get extremely expensive and self-insure against issues that are not financially catastrophic for us especially as we are in good health as are our parents.
> 
> Ok, so we didn’t take out a seperate travel insurance policy on the Morocco trip.  The trip was booked with a Conde Naste recommended travel specialist and was ranked as one of the best in Nat Geo Traveler, T&L, Virtuoso.  Needless to say, none of these groups had a clue of Heritage’s mismanagement.
> 
> So, when we figured out what was going on, as I wrote about a few wks ago, we called out CC’s.   We happened to book with 2 Chase cards. We put $10k on one as a deposit and $10k on another as a partial payment.  I wish I could say this was by design, but it was just because we were changing what cards we paid with travel for points.  They both covered up to $10k due to insolvency.  The both reimbursed us the full amount.  Obviously we lucked out the cards we used had large coverage amounts. And we lucked out we discovered their insolvency before we paid any more which we not have recovered.
> 
> Certainly, there’s lessons to be learned here.  Thankfully it’s pretty rare, and it could have been a lot worse.  I can’t imagine landing in Morocco with kids and no place to go.  Anyway.  We’ll still go to Morocco, but it will be a couple of years as our Winter Trips are pretty much planned out.  Not sure what we’re doing this Christmas.  Possibly Croatia on our own.  If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask!


Glad to hear you got it back!
Your experience is something I now wondering what to do for our own trip. We are going to China on a private tour , with China Discovery (in China). I just got a new ANZ Black CC to try and start this points business, and even though they have extensive really good insurance for pretty much everything you can think of, unlimited medical etc, they do NOT cover insolvency. Trying to decide if I should try and find another (paid) policy just for that...


----------



## TXTransplant

I'm looking out to future trips (only 4 more summers left before my son goes off to college!) trying to decide what we want to do next.  We've got Alaska booked with Nat Geo for 2020, and Japan is on the list for 2022 or 2023.  That leaves two open years, and for 2021 I am leaning strongly towards a trip to France that includes Normandy and the D-Day beaches.  This is an area that I have not been able to visit, and I think it's something my son definitely should see (and he is really interested in history, so it's not a hard sell).

We typically travel for 10-14 days, so a trip of that length should leave us enough time to also visit Provence and the South of France (I've wanted to go to Eze for years) and maybe even sneak in a day at Disneyland Paris (I'm not too keen on spending additional time beyond that in Paris, since been-there-done-that).

I would like the time we spend in Normandy to be with a guided tour, only because we get so much more out of visits to historical sites when we have guides.  I've looked at some of the D-Day specific trips (Nat Geo has an awesome one), but I think that is just too much time focused on history when there are other things I also want to do while we are there.  I want something in between a day-trip from Paris and a 7-10 day war-intensive history course. 

The option I'm leaning toward the most is the Backroads Travel Brittany and Normandy bike tour (preferably with the premier hotels).  That's a 6 day tour with two days focused heavily on D-Day history.  That would leave us another 4-6 days to see other parts of France on our own.

However, I am most definitely open to suggestions and would love to hear from anyone here who has done something similar, especially in the Normandy area.  I'm open to private/custom tours, too (at least for the Normandy area - I think I can piecemeal the rest of it together myself).

I'm also looking for suggestions for pre-trip add-ons for Alaska next summer that we can do on our own.  We will be flying to/from Anchorage.


----------



## RSM

TXTransplant said:


> However, I am most definitely open to suggestions and would love to hear from anyone here who has done something similar, especially in the Normandy area. I'm open to private/custom tours, too (at least for the Normandy area - I think I can piecemeal the rest of it together myself).


We used a guide named Ed Robinson for 2 days of private tours.  He is the owner of Battle of Normandy Tours.  One of the best private guides we have ever had.  A wealth of information and storytelling.  He tends to be booked pretty far out though, which is a good sign.  Just another option if you wanted to do 1 or 2 days of tours associated with WWII in the Normandy area.  Search Battle of Normandy Tours and you can look at his offerings.  Good Luck.


----------



## Dis_Yoda

TXTransplant said:


> I'm looking out to future trips (only 4 more summers left before my son goes off to college!) trying to decide what we want to do next.  We've got Alaska booked with Nat Geo for 2020, and Japan is on the list for 2022 or 2023.  That leaves two open years, and for 2021 I am leaning strongly towards a trip to France that includes Normandy and the D-Day beaches.  This is an area that I have not been able to visit, and I think it's something my son definitely should see (and he is really interested in history, so it's not a hard sell).
> 
> We typically travel for 10-14 days, so a trip of that length should leave us enough time to also visit Provence and the South of France (I've wanted to go to Eze for years) and maybe even sneak in a day at Disneyland Paris (I'm not too keen on spending additional time beyond that in Paris, since been-there-done-that).
> 
> I would like the time we spend in Normandy to be with a guided tour, only because we get so much more out of visits to historical sites when we have guides.  I've looked at some of the D-Day specific trips (Nat Geo has an awesome one), but I think that is just too much time focused on history when there are other things I also want to do while we are there.  I want something in between a day-trip from Paris and a 7-10 day war-intensive history course.
> 
> The option I'm leaning toward the most is the Backroads Travel Brittany and Normandy bike tour (preferably with the premier hotels).  That's a 6 day tour with two days focused heavily on D-Day history.  That would leave us another 4-6 days to see other parts of France on our own.
> 
> However, I am most definitely open to suggestions and would love to hear from anyone here who has done something similar, especially in the Normandy area.  I'm open to private/custom tours, too (at least for the Normandy area - I think I can piecemeal the rest of it together myself).
> 
> I'm also looking for suggestions for pre-trip add-ons for Alaska next summer that we can do on our own.  We will be flying to/from Anchorage.



I’m going on a Tauck trip in a few days that includes those sites - I’ll try to get the name of the operators/guides we use while there.


----------



## tgeorge

Like RSM, we took the train from Paris up to Normandy for the day, and did a private tour with a guide. Hands down, the absolute most amazing part of our trip. We also had a private guide for a few days in Paris, but Normandy was absolutely spectacular. As service members, it was very humbling to see and hear about the generations that came before us. Whatever you choose, you can’t go wrong. It will be spectacular


----------



## Dis_Yoda

I'm currently on the Tauck 2019's version of Normandy, Brittany, Paris & the Loire Valley which is a 13 Day/12 Night Trip. I am posting a trip report on it here since its in combination with my Disneyland Paris RunDisney trip.  "I Know What You're Going To Say". 

I should be posting more tomorrow as the late afternoon/evening is pretty light but it will take me a while since the trip is 19 days long in total.


----------



## sayhello

tgeorge said:


> Like RSM, we took the train from Paris up to Normandy for the day, and did a private tour with a guide. Hands down, the absolute most amazing part of our trip. We also had a private guide for a few days in Paris, but Normandy was absolutely spectacular. As service members, it was very humbling to see and hear about the generations that came before us. Whatever you choose, you can’t go wrong. It will be spectacular


So it's doable as a day trip from Paris?  I'm trying to figure out pre-day stuff for my Rhone river cruise, and I was thinking of flying into Paris, spending some time there and at DLP, taking the train to Normandy, then taking the train all the way down to Lyon (although maybe not in that order).  Do you think that sounds doable?

Sayhello


----------



## tgeorge

sayhello said:


> So it's doable as a day trip from Paris?  I'm trying to figure out pre-day stuff for my Rhone river cruise, and I was thinking of flying into Paris, spending some time there and at DLP, taking the train to Normandy, then taking the train all the way down to Lyon (although maybe not in that order).  Do you think that sounds doable?
> 
> Sayhello



It’s definitely doable to do Normandy for the day. Our guide, Mathias, was great and told me which train tickets to book and was there wait to pick us up at the train station. We left Paris at 0706 and got into Caen train station in  Normandy around 0930. We drove up to St Mare Englise and saw the first village liberated by the Americans. Then we went to get the most amazing chocolate croissant I had the entire trip (yes, I still think about that croissant) Ore guide even made a detour to take us to the city hall where they had the original American flag that flew over the village when my husband stated he was interested in seeing it. Then we went over to Utah beach and saw a lot of really interesting things in that area. He had books of information and we were able to stand in the same spots of areas where he had pictures taken in 1945. We then went to a lovely small restaurant for lunch where we discussed even more things. We went to the white cliffs after that and then we made our way to Omaha Beach, which was unbelievable.  After that, our day ended at the American cemetery and we got there in time for the flag retreat, which was truly an unforgettable experience. Our guide had us back to the train station in time to catch our 650pm train back to Paris. We got back around 915pm. It was a long day, but we had time in the train to relax, but it was absolutely amazing. We had a private guide for me, my husband, and our friend Steve. His wife Kim and their two kids stayed in Paris since they weren’t interested in Normandy. 

If you get the chance, I would highly recommend going. You will definitely enjoy it


----------



## Cousin Orville

Another update from us.  Since our Morocco trip crashed and burned, we decided to go to Croatia and Slovenia.  Zagreb, Croatia has won the top Christmas market in Europe recently.  So we’re starting there.  Then heading down to Dubrovnik and Split.  And we’ll finish up in Ljubljana, Slovenia.  While they're traditionally summer destinations, we hear they’re gorgeous Christmas destinations.  Basically Dubrovnik is King’s Landing (for GoT fans) dressed in garland and wreaths.  We’ll probably day trip into Montenegro and Bosnia - 2 pretty common day trips from Dubrovnik.  My dw found a local company, Secret Dalmatia, that is organizing some transfers and tours for us.  Should be a great trip!


----------



## tgeorge

Cousin Orville said:


> Another update from us.  Since our Morocco trip crashed and burned, we decided to go to Croatia and Slovenia.  Zagreb, Croatia has won the top Christmas market in Europe recently.  So we’re starting there.  Then heading down to Dubrovnik and Split.  And we’ll finish up in Ljubljana, Slovenia.  While they're traditionally summer destinations, we hear they’re gorgeous Christmas destinations.  Basically Dubrovnik is King’s Landing (for GoT fans) dressed in garland and wreaths.  We’ll probably day trip into Montenegro and Bosnia - 2 pretty common day trips from Dubrovnik.  My dw found a local company, Secret Dalmatia, that is organizing some transfers and tours for us.  Should be a great trip!



So happy to hear that you’re going to get to do a trip. It sounds like it will be fabulous.


----------



## tink1970

Cousin Orville said:


> Another update from us.  Since our Morocco trip crashed and burned, we decided to go to Croatia and Slovenia.  Zagreb, Croatia has won the top Christmas market in Europe recently.  So we’re starting there.  Then heading down to Dubrovnik and Split.  And we’ll finish up in Ljubljana, Slovenia.  While they're traditionally summer destinations, we hear they’re gorgeous Christmas destinations.  Basically Dubrovnik is King’s Landing (for GoT fans) dressed in garland and wreaths.  We’ll probably day trip into Montenegro and Bosnia - 2 pretty common day trips from Dubrovnik.  My dw found a local company, Secret Dalmatia, that is organizing some transfers and tours for us.  Should be a great trip!




That sounds great-we're doing Slovenia and Croatia next July for my big birthday. I'll be interested to hear what y'all will be doing/did  I'm afraid I'm going to love the region as I do Budapest/Prague and will be annoying my DH for a trip in the winter, too.


----------



## carpenta

If you go to Montenegro check with your credit card company for some cards don't work in that country. Just got back a couple months ago from Croatia and Montenegro and had a wonderful time. Both countries get their incomes mostly from tourism so they both seem to LOVE tourists.


----------



## Snyders22000

We did Normandy on our own last Spring with our 3 kids ages 10,8,6. We stayed in Bayuex which was a perfect base for a few nights. We arranged a private tour with Oliver who owns Oliver 44 tours. He is a “one man show” and does his own tours. He actually used to work for Disney and was really great with our kids. He picked us up in Bayuex and took us around to many of the Dday sights (several of the main beaches, the American Cemetery, several bunkers and old artillery pieces, and some of the important small towns). He would give us some background history at each stop and show the kids historical pictures of the events that took place there, and then he’d give us time to explore each place on our own. I’m sure you could easily book a multi day tour with him if you wanted to explore more. Bayuex has a fabulous Saturday market with lots of local foods, flowers, and even small animals for sale. We also really enjoyed visiting the Bayuex Tapestry museum (had a great children’s audio guide), and the town cathedral. There was also a nice Dday museum in town (it was closed when we were there). 





TXTransplant said:


> I'm looking out to future trips (only 4 more summers left before my son goes off to college!) trying to decide what we want to do next.  We've got Alaska booked with Nat Geo for 2020, and Japan is on the list for 2022 or 2023.  That leaves two open years, and for 2021 I am leaning strongly towards a trip to France that includes Normandy and the D-Day beaches.  This is an area that I have not been able to visit, and I think it's something my son definitely should see (and he is really interested in history, so it's not a hard sell).
> 
> We typically travel for 10-14 days, so a trip of that length should leave us enough time to also visit Provence and the South of France (I've wanted to go to Eze for years) and maybe even sneak in a day at Disneyland Paris (I'm not too keen on spending additional time beyond that in Paris, since been-there-done-that).
> 
> I would like the time we spend in Normandy to be with a guided tour, only because we get so much more out of visits to historical sites when we have guides.  I've looked at some of the D-Day specific trips (Nat Geo has an awesome one), but I think that is just too much time focused on history when there are other things I also want to do while we are there.  I want something in between a day-trip from Paris and a 7-10 day war-intensive history course.
> 
> The option I'm leaning toward the most is the Backroads Travel Brittany and Normandy bike tour (preferably with the premier hotels).  That's a 6 day tour with two days focused heavily on D-Day history.  That would leave us another 4-6 days to see other parts of France on our own.
> 
> However, I am most definitely open to suggestions and would love to hear from anyone here who has done something similar, especially in the Normandy area.  I'm open to private/custom tours, too (at least for the Normandy area - I think I can piecemeal the rest of it together myself).
> 
> I'm also looking for suggestions for pre-trip add-ons for Alaska next summer that we can do on our own.  We will be flying to/from Anchorage.


----------



## Cousin Orville

tgeorge said:


> So happy to hear that you’re going to get to do a trip. It sounds like it will be fabulous.



Thanks!  



tink1970 said:


> That sounds great-we're doing Slovenia and Croatia next July for my big birthday. I'll be interested to hear what y'all will be doing/did  I'm afraid I'm going to love the region as I do Budapest/Prague and will be annoying my DH for a trip in the winter, too.



We loved Budapest & Prague as well.  We went 5 years ago (again around Christmas).  We'd love to return some day!  Slovenia and Croatia seem like the next logical trip after a trip to central Europe.

  I'd love to return.


carpenta said:


> If you go to Montenegro check with your credit card company for some cards don't work in that country. Just got back a couple months ago from Croatia and Montenegro and had a wonderful time. Both countries get their incomes mostly from tourism so they both seem to LOVE tourists.



Thanks for the tip.  We've read both countries are very friendly to tourists.  We stopped 1 day in Split on a Cruise last year and fell in love with the area.  Can't wait to spend more time in Croatia!


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

This thread has been very quiet lately!

I called Nat Geo yesterday to inquire about the ages of the teenagers on our May, 2019 voyage (it's sold out with an 11 cabin wait list). They told me they only have 1 other teenager booked between 16 and 20.  My dd isn't thrilled about this as the cruise is 17 days long (and it's just the 2 of us traveling).

So I started digging and found a 7 day Arctic cruise with Quark that hits the mark for us.  I thought we could tour St. Petersburg, Bergen and Voss on our own before joining Quark in Oslo.  Quark tells me that they have 20 and 19 year olds booked and a reservation that hasn't put the deposit down yet with an under-20.  They haven't sold out yet.  It's also a brand new ship -- not quite as nice as the Endurance, but still looks really nice.  Cost-wise it is MUCH less expensive (a fifth of the price).

The primary differences are that Nat Geo spends 5 days cruising the Arctic while Quark spends 4 and Nat Geo goes slightly up the east side of Svalbard while Quark remains solidly on the east side (but goes further north than Nat Geo).  The other differences we would make up on our own in Norway (exploring the fjords). I'm not hugely into flora and fauna, which is the focus of much of these cruises, so 7 days wouldn't really bother me (and ship food can get old fast for me).  Also I'm not terribly worried about my deposit as Nat Geo gives most of it back and I'm hoping I could put anything they don't refund towards another trip.

I looked up reviews on Quark and they get stellar reviews online.

What would you do?  Any thoughts?


----------



## Aelin1977

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> This thread has been very quiet lately!
> 
> I called Nat Geo yesterday to inquire about the ages of the teenagers on our May, 2019 voyage (it's sold out with an 11 cabin wait list). They told me they only have 1 other teenager booked between 16 and 20.  My dd isn't thrilled about this as the cruise is 17 days long (and it's just the 2 of us traveling).
> 
> So I started digging and found a 7 day Arctic cruise with Quark that hits the mark for us.  I thought we could tour St. Petersburg, Bergen and Voss on our own before joining Quark in Oslo.  Quark tells me that they have 20 and 19 year olds booked and a reservation that hasn't put the deposit down yet with an under-20.  They haven't sold out yet.  It's also a brand new ship -- not quite as nice as the Endurance, but still looks really nice.  Cost-wise it is MUCH less expensive (a fifth of the price).
> 
> The primary differences are that Nat Geo spends 5 days cruising the Arctic while Quark spends 4 and Nat Geo goes slightly up the east side of Svalbard while Quark remains solidly on the east side (but goes further north than Nat Geo).  The other differences we would make up on our own in Norway (exploring the fjords). I'm not hugely into flora and fauna, which is the focus of much of these cruises, so 7 days wouldn't really bother me (and ship food can get old fast for me).  Also I'm not terribly worried about my deposit as Nat Geo gives most of it back and I'm hoping I could put anything they don't refund towards another trip.
> 
> I looked up reviews on Quark and they get stellar reviews online.
> 
> What would you do?  Any thoughts?



Go with the company that's going to give you what you want. If you feel Quark is the better trip and it meets your needs, go with them. I've done 3 trips with Nat Geo over the past few years and the quality of service has diminished. For us, we will only consider Nat Geo now if they are the only ones with the exact trip we want but they will not be our go to provider or even our first choice if we can help it.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

A quick update: I jumped ship (no pun intended). 

Dd and I are going to fly into St. Petersburg (4 nights - see a Russian ballet and do private tours of the museums / palaces), fly from there to Bergen (2 nights - 1 day of white water rafting and waterfall rappelling in Voss), then fly (I think) to Alesund (4 nights - hiking the fjords including a picnic lunch, horseback riding and a boat ride around the fjords) before meeting the group in Oslo for our flight to Longyearbyen.  To be honest my deposit for Nat Geo was _half of the total cost_ for the Quark expedition (and we got a verandah cabin, so not the lowest stateroom).  Total cost for the entire trip will be around half of what the Nat Geo cruise would've cost and I am much happier with our itinerary as I am a very active / fit person and like to incorporate that into my travels whenever possible (nod to my ropes course pic taken on the Italy / Switzerland ABD!)!

I am using Scott Dunn to arrange the Russia / Norway portion of our trip as I want everything to be seamless and I am not comfortable arranging Russia on my own.  I am SUPER excited for this trip! I've been wanting to visit Russia (specifically St. Petersburg) for quite some time.


----------



## WDWmom08

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> A quick update: I jumped ship (no pun intended).
> 
> Dd and I are going to fly into St. Petersburg (4 nights - see a Russian ballet and do private tours of the museums / palaces), fly from there to Bergen (2 nights - 1 day of white water rafting and waterfall rappelling in Voss), then fly (I think) to Alesund (4 nights - hiking the fjords including a picnic lunch, horseback riding and a boat ride around the fjords) before meeting the group in Oslo for our flight to Longyearbyen.  To be honest my deposit for Nat Geo was _half of the total cost_ for the Quark expedition (and we got a verandah cabin, so not the lowest stateroom).  Total cost for the entire trip will be around half of what the Nat Geo cruise would've cost and I am much happier with our itinerary as I am a very active / fit person and like to incorporate that into my travels whenever possible (nod to my ropes course pic taken on the Italy / Switzerland ABD!)!
> 
> I am using Scott Dunn to arrange the Russia / Norway portion of our trip as I want everything to be seamless and I am not comfortable arranging Russia on my own.  I am SUPER excited for this trip! I've been wanting to visit Russia (specifically St. Petersburg) for quite some time.


Can I ask what the per day, per person cost for Scott Dunn is?


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

wanderlust7 said:


> So 2 weeks is the earliest they can manually push it through?  Good to know.  My charge from HGVC Craigendarroch didn't credit either.  I waited about 8 weeks before doing chat and they put it through.  I wonder if it's the international locations that tends to have issues.





WDWmom08 said:


> Can I ask what the per day, per person cost for Scott Dunn is?


I don't have the quote from them yet (they said tomorrow afternoon).  But you give them a price per person you want to work with and they will plan the trip accordingly.  I gave them a price on the low side to give myself some cushion for add-ons I will almost certainly decide are "must dos".  Also the dinners are only included in Alesund -- in St. Petersburg and Bergen we will be on our own for most lunches and all dinners (which is fine with me).  I am arranging (and paying for) our activities in Bergen but they are arranging our transportation there and to Alesund.  They seem to be very, very flexible with what activities you want included, which I really like.  So far I am very impressed with them.


----------



## WDWmom08

Has anyone traveled with CIE Tours?


----------



## GuardMusic

OhanaCuz said:


> I’ve now done two Amawaterways cruises: one with Disney (Danube) and one without (Rhine). More than one person expressed (I remember @sayhello and @tink1970 were some) they’d be interested in hearing the differences so here are my thoughts.  I want to stress that we LOVED our ABD river cruise. The reason we chose Ama-only for the second cruise was because of the single supplement.



Thank you for this comparison; it was definitely what I needed to see as we plan ahead for... 2024!


----------



## tink1970

WDWmom08 said:


> Has anyone traveled with CIE Tours?




I did a 3 or 4 years ago for a tour of Ireland. It was fine-I used them because there wouldn't be children and I didn't want to drive. Nothing fancy, some random stuff I could have lived without but I thought the guide was actually better than the guide I had on a similar tour with Tauck. I did find Limerick sort of sketchy but for the most part enjoyed the majority of my trip with them. Definitely not high end but was a decent tour.


----------



## OhanaCuz

GuardMusic said:


> Thank you for this comparison; it was definitely what I needed to see as we plan ahead for... 2024!



You're welcome.  I've had a couple of people ask me about it.  I loved both cruises and actually like the Disney one more, but the single supplement was a huge issue.


----------



## Travel60

It's always cold said:


> Thank you for all the information, at the moment I am leaning towards Tauck (mainly due to price, for 4 of us with the guide tip (thanks Bobo 912) the Tauck trip is almost $3,000 cheaper than ABD.  Now that being said we would have to do the Spanish Steps and Trevi Fountain on our own.  Is it feasible to think we can just walk there from our hotel?
> 
> Also for anyone who has travelled to Italy do you have any tips or suggestions to avoid the pick pocketors?  I have bought my husband a travel wallet that clips inside his pants and I wasn't planning on carrying a purse, but I would like to have my camera with me, potentially just on my wrist.  Besides pick pocketors is there anything else we should be aware of and watch out for?



You asked about pickpockets.  In Rome, as in much of Europe, pickpocketing is an art form.  But, much like large cities in US, you just need to keep your head about you.  Don't be obviously American (shorts and white tennis shoes!) and don't have your head buried in a map or a phone.  Walk with purpose and be alert to anyone near you.  In addition to the wallet you bought your husband, there are very slim wallets on a string designed to go around your neck and under your shirt.  A camera on your wrist might make an easy target for a snatch and run...I carried my camera on a strap around my neck and kept one hand on it at all times.


----------



## nemofans

Which Tauck trip are you doing?  We just did the Sweet Life one and we did go to Trevi Fountain on our walking tour with them.  This was the only spot we truly felt we may be pickpocketed as it was jammed with people.  My DH wore a travel wallet around his waist under his shirt.  I used a Kipling purse that had a crossbody strap and a fanny pack clip.  https://smile.amazon.com/Kipling-Merryl-Convertible-Waistpack-Black/dp/B073HPB8Q5/ref=sr_1_57?dchild=1&keywords=kipling+travel+purse&qid=1571412923&sr=8-57&th=1&psc=1
This purse works well for Universal trips bc they allow fanny packs but not purses on rides.  This purse allows me to switch to what kind of strap I want to use easily.

We did do Spanish Steps on our own.  We walked from our hotel through Borghese Park to the Spanish Steps on our arrival day since our flight landed in the morning.


----------



## emilymad

nemofans said:


> Which Tauck trip are you doing?  We just did the Sweet Life one and we did go to Trevi Fountain on our walking tour with them.  This was the only spot we truly felt we may be pickpocketed as it was jammed with people.  My DH wore a travel wallet around his waist under his shirt.  I used a Kipling purse that had a crossbody strap and a fanny pack clip.  https://smile.amazon.com/Kipling-Merryl-Convertible-Waistpack-Black/dp/B073HPB8Q5/ref=sr_1_57?dchild=1&keywords=kipling+travel+purse&qid=1571412923&sr=8-57&th=1&psc=1
> This purse works well for Universal trips bc they allow fanny packs but not purses on rides.  This purse allows me to switch to what kind of strap I want to use easily.
> 
> We did do Spanish Steps on our own.  We walked from our hotel through Borghese Park to the Spanish Steps on our arrival day since our flight landed in the morning.



How did you like the Sweet Life trip?


----------



## sayhello

nemofans said:


> I used a Kipling purse that had a crossbody strap and a fanny pack clip.  https://smile.amazon.com/Kipling-Merryl-Convertible-Waistpack-Black/dp/B073HPB8Q5/ref=sr_1_57?dchild=1&keywords=kipling+travel+purse&qid=1571412923&sr=8-57&th=1&psc=1
> This purse works well for Universal trips bc they allow fanny packs but not purses on rides.  This purse allows me to switch to what kind of strap I want to use easily.


Universal doesn't allow purses on any rides?  Do all the rides have lockers?  I haven't been to Universal in like 7 years, but I'm going in February.  This is really interesting information.

Thanks, Sayhello


----------



## RSM

sayhello said:


> Universal doesn't allow purses on any rides?  Do all the rides have lockers?  I haven't been to Universal in like 7 years, but I'm going in February.  This is really interesting information.
> 
> Thanks, Sayhello


Yes.  On a lot of the rides at Universal you need to take change out of your pocket, no car keys, no phones, etc.  You need to pass through a metal detector.  They do have lockers for temporary storage.  Several years ago, I think shortly after they made the change, I had asked one of the managers what drove them to add the metal detectors.  He said that someone was taking a selfie on one of the roller coasters (the Hulk I think), dropped the phone and it flew back and hit the person in the row behind them in the face and caused pretty significant injury.  Whether it is true or not, I don't know, but it sounds plausible.


----------



## WishUponAStarryNight

nemofans said:


> Which Tauck trip are you doing?  We just did the Sweet Life one and we did go to Trevi Fountain on our walking tour with them.





emilymad said:


> How did you like the Sweet Life trip?



I'd love to hear more about this trip, too.  It's on my short list for 2021.


----------



## sayhello

RSM said:


> Yes.  On a lot of the rides at Universal you need to take change out of your pocket, no car keys, no phones, etc.  You need to pass through a metal detector.  They do have lockers for temporary storage.  Several years ago, I think shortly after they made the change, I had asked one of the managers what drove them to add the metal detectors.  He said that someone was taking a selfie on one of the roller coasters (the Hulk I think), dropped the phone and it flew back and hit the person in the row behind them in the face and caused pretty significant injury.  Whether it is true or not, I don't know, but it sounds plausible.


Interesting!  Thanks.  But they *do* allow fanny packs?  I love taking photos in the queues, but if everything's in a locker, I can't do that...

Sayhello


----------



## RSM

They do allow fanny packs, but you still need to go through the metal detectors for certain rides.  Just guessing that they would make you put a cell phone in a locker even with a fanny pack.  Just because someone has a fanny pack doesn't mean that they wouldn't pull out a cell phone during a ride.  Even when you have your park pass on a lanyard, you are asked to put it under your shirt.  Again, this isn't all rides at Universal, it tends to be those that are high speed or ones that invert you.


----------



## Bobo912

sayhello said:


> Interesting!  Thanks.  But they *do* allow fanny packs?  I love taking photos in the queues, but if everything's in a locker, I can't do that...
> 
> Sayhello



Only Rip Ride Rockit and Hulk have metal detectors and you can't bring your phone even if it is secured.  For all of the other rides you'll be okay with your phone in a fanny pack if it's small.  I didn't carry a bag at all, but I always tucked my phone into a pocket with a button or zipper and it was fine.  I think you are going to love the new Hagrid coaster.  It is my new favorite ride.


----------



## sayhello

RSM said:


> They do allow fanny packs, but you still need to go through the metal detectors for certain rides.  Just guessing that they would make you put a cell phone in a locker even with a fanny pack.  Just because someone has a fanny pack doesn't mean that they wouldn't pull out a cell phone during a ride.  Even when you have your park pass on a lanyard, you are asked to put it under your shirt.  Again, this isn't all rides at Universal, it tends to be those that are high speed or ones that invert you.





Bobo912 said:


> Only Rip Ride Rockit and Hulk have metal detectors and you can't bring your phone even if it is secured.  For all of the other rides you'll be okay with your phone in a fanny pack if it's small.  I didn't carry a bag at all, but I always tucked my phone into a pocket with a button or zipper and it was fine.  I think you are going to love the new Hagrid coaster.  It is my new favorite ride.


OK, so my plan is to spend pretty much the entire day at the 2 Harry Potter lands, so if those are the only 2 with metal detectors, I should be fine.  I'm seriously considering buying the fanny pack that @nemofans recommended just to be on the safe side.  I use a small point and shoot which would fit in that just fine.

I'm definitely looking forward to the new Hagrid coaster!  

Sayhello


----------



## nemofans

The highlight of the trip for me was the exclusive visit to Vatican museums and Sistine Chapel at night and then having dinner afterwards in the courtyard at the Vatican.  My boys' favorite was gladiator school which was so fun.  We loved Sorrento and the Sorrento hotel was so nice.  You do get time on your own for shopping multiple times as well as a few dinners on your own.  We were there during the heat wave this past summer which made walking around Rome uncomfortable, but that's just what it was.


----------



## tgeorge

@sayhello- Have you looked into the VIP tour at Universal? I’ve done it twice at Universal Hollywood and it was well worth the added expense. No waiting in lines and our guide held all of our bags as we were getting on the rides. It was such a great experience. I haven’t done it at Universal Orlando yet, but I’ve heard it is also a great experience there. Either way, you’re going to love HP World. I can’t wait to go back to Orlando and do Hagrid’s coaster


----------



## sayhello

tgeorge said:


> @sayhello- Have you looked into the VIP tour at Universal? I’ve done it twice at Universal Hollywood and it was well worth the added expense. No waiting in lines and our guide held all of our bags as we were getting on the rides. It was such a great experience. I haven’t done it at Universal Orlando yet, but I’ve heard it is also a great experience there. Either way, you’re going to love HP World. I can’t wait to go back to Orlando and do Hagrid’s coaster


Thanks, I'll look into that.  Although with front-of-the-line access, I think I should do OK.  But a VIP tour would be nice!  Thanks!

Sayhello


----------



## tink1970

tgeorge said:


> @sayhello- Have you looked into the VIP tour at Universal? I’ve done it twice at Universal Hollywood and it was well worth the added expense. No waiting in lines and our guide held all of our bags as we were getting on the rides. It was such a great experience. I haven’t done it at Universal Orlando yet, but I’ve heard it is also a great experience there. Either way, you’re going to love HP World. I can’t wait to go back to Orlando and do Hagrid’s coaster



One of our fellow London/Paris/DLP podcast ABD tour members was a Universal Hollywood VIP tour guide and he was the nicest, most amazing guy. I'd do it just to spend more time learning from him!


----------



## sayhello

tgeorge said:


> @sayhello- Have you looked into the VIP tour at Universal? I’ve done it twice at Universal Hollywood and it was well worth the added expense. No waiting in lines and our guide held all of our bags as we were getting on the rides. It was such a great experience. I haven’t done it at Universal Orlando yet, but I’ve heard it is also a great experience there. Either way, you’re going to love HP World. I can’t wait to go back to Orlando and do Hagrid’s coaster





tink1970 said:


> One of our fellow London/Paris/DLP podcast ABD tour members was a Universal Hollywood VIP tour guide and he was the nicest, most amazing guy. I'd do it just to spend more time learning from him!


It sounds fun and a great way to go.  But I've been looking into it, and the issue is, there could be up to 12 people on the VIP tour, and I highly doubt they are all going to want to only do the Harry Potter part of both parks.  I'm really not interested in much else at Universal.  And I'm reading that a Private VIP tour is $3000+.  NOT doing that!  

Sayhello


----------



## SirDuff

I just came back (well a few weeks ago now) from Backroads' Peru Trekking trip.  It was absolutely amazing.  It is not a family trip (so, no kids), but if you are up for an active adventure and the wonders of Machu Picchu I highly recommend it.

One of the other travelers fell and broke her ankle and I was super impressed with how Backroads (and our guides specifically) dealt with it - especially given that we were on the middle of a trail through the Andes.  She did end up flying back to the US for surgery which such a shame (had it been a simple break that could be dealt with in Peru, Backroads would have gotten her to the hotel we used in Machu Picchu (which was amazing) where she could have spent the couple of days that we were still trekking.  In a cast, she probably couldn't have done the ruins, but her husband would have been able to.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

SirDuff said:


> I just came back (well a few weeks ago now) from Backroads' Peru Trekking trip.  It was absolutely amazing.  It is not a family trip (so, no kids), but if you are up for an active adventure and the wonders of Machu Picchu I highly recommend it.
> 
> One of the other travelers fell and broke her ankle and I was super impressed with how Backroads (and our guides specifically) dealt with it - especially given that we were on the middle of a trail through the Andes.  She did end up flying back to the US for surgery which such a shame (had it been a simple break that could be dealt with in Peru, Backroads would have gotten her to the hotel we used in Machu Picchu (which was amazing) where she could have spent the couple of days that we were still trekking.  In a cast, she probably couldn't have done the ruins, but her husband would have been able to.


Such a bummer but great to hear that Backroads did a great job. Great timing for your post, too, as @Calfan and I have been perusing their catalog for our next hiking adventure. Hiking in Peru was amazing. DD and I din the Salkantay trek with REi last fall.


----------



## tgeorge

sayhello said:


> It sounds fun and a great way to go.  But I've been looking into it, and the issue is, there could be up to 12 people on the VIP tour, and I highly doubt they are all going to want to only do the Harry Potter part of both parks.  I'm really not interested in much else at Universal.  And I'm reading that a Private VIP tour is $3000+.  NOT doing that!
> 
> Sayhello



Oh, yeah, if you ONLY want to do HP for the whole day, then definitely not for you. They take you to a bunch of other things as well. In Hollywood it is especially cool since you get the tour of the studios and the amazing lunch they serve.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Quick update on our Arctic / Northern Europe trip.  

We are booked with Scott Dunn (for St. Petersburg, Bergen and Alesund and the flight from Alesund to Oslo).  I am very happy with the service so far. The agent has been super quick to respond to my questions and very, very nice to deal with.  I also had them push back the PIF date to 60 days before departure should something go drastically wrong and we don't get visas for Russia (apparently the applications are quite complicated).  If the worst happens we will be able to change from Russia to Copenhagen and only lose the payment for the flight from St. Petersburg to Bergen.  She thought this was an excellent idea (I can apply for the visa at 90 days before departure and they take approx. 7-8 business days to get approved). She had no issue just booking hotel, transfers and flights for Russia to Bergen as I want to white water raft in Bergen and do a day trip from Bergen to Flam via boat / train / car (I had already booked a private guide as I want to stop at the Dale Norway factory!).  So far I am very impressed and would recommend them.  She has traveled in this area herself a few times and had some fantastic suggestions.

Price per day will vary based on the type of accomodations you want and activities you choose.  We are staying at the Four Seasons in St. Petersburg (it's newer and in a former palace, so we had to, right?), but there are other hotel options that would yield a lower price point.  I gave her a budget we wanted to work within and she delivered in spades.


----------



## Candycane83

Long post: It has been an incredibly frustrating day. I got a call from Tauck this morning and the rep told me our Costa Rica bridges trip (myself, DH and DS5) has been cancelled due to the lack of participants. We were given a few options...  We can join their small group tour for the same dates but it is not designed for children. Or we can join their tour the week after which is currently fully booked. Now, moving the tour to the week after would not really be a problem in terms of vacation days or school but I have purchased flights already. My frustration comes with my airline. Since it is March break, I understand that week is incredibly busy and flights are very expensive. It would cost us over CAD 2600 to switch if they actually have the same class of tickets. I balked and thought it was too expensive (more than what I paid for originally) I told this to the rep and she has kindly offered to pay for this difference as they are cancelling our tour. When I called back though, the airline now claims they only have business class tickets! Now I’m stuck and unsure what to do. Well, I’m planning to call again tomorrow to see if there are tickets again. If it’s not available though, should I just go ahead and go with the small group? Or should I just move the tour to a different date? I was thinking December but flights are not available yet for those dates. I’d have to move my flight to something else... or look at another trip altogether...  what to do... any advise?


----------



## sayhello

Candycane83 said:


> Long post: It has been an incredibly frustrating day. I got a call from Tauck this morning and the rep told me our Costa Rica bridges trip (myself, DH and DS5) has been cancelled due to the lack of participants. We were given a few options...  We can join their small group tour for the same dates but it is not designed for children. Or we can join their tour the week after which is currently fully booked. Now, moving the tour to the week after would not really be a problem in terms of vacation days or school but I have purchased flights already. My frustration comes with my airline. Since it is March break, I understand that week is incredibly busy and flights are very expensive. It would cost us over CAD 2600 to switch if they actually have the same class of tickets. I balked and thought it was too expensive (more than what I paid for originally) I told this to the rep and she has kindly offered to pay for this difference as they are cancelling our tour. When I called back though, the airline now claims they only have business class tickets! Now I’m stuck and unsure what to do. Well, I’m planning to call again tomorrow to see if there are tickets again. If it’s not available though, should I just go ahead and go with the small group? Or should I just move the tour to a different date? I was thinking December but flights are not available yet for those dates. I’d have to move my flight to something else... or look at another trip altogether...  what to do... any advise?


Tauck should have offered from the get-go to pay to change your flights.  Agreeing to it after the fact is odd.  Then you would have known.  As much as people complain about ABD's cancellation policy, they make it quite clear from the outset that if they cancel your trip, and you move to another departure, they will cover the costs to move your flight, within reason. 

What *I* would do is price out flights on another airline.  If the price is reasonable, talk to Tauck about just cancelling the other flights, and them buying you the more reasonable flights on the other airline.  It would probably cost them less in the long run.  Just a suggestion.  ABD did that for me when they cancelled my Canadian Rockies trip, and Delta wanted a total fortune to switch my flight to the Alaska trip I switched to.  It was cheaper to buy me a new flight on Alaska Airlines.

Sayhello


----------



## Candycane83

sayhello said:


> Tauck should have offered from the get-go to pay to change your flights.  Agreeing to it after the fact is odd.  Then you would have known.  As much as people complain about ABD's cancellation policy, they make it quite clear from the outset that if they cancel your trip, and you move to another departure, they will cover the costs to move your flight, within reason.
> 
> What *I* would do is price out flights on another airline.  If the price is reasonable, talk to Tauck about just cancelling the other flights, and them buying you the more reasonable flights on the other airline.  It would probably cost them less in the long run.  Just a suggestion.  ABD did that for me when they cancelled my Canadian Rockies trip, and Delta wanted a total fortune to switch my flight to the Alaska trip I switched to.  It was cheaper to buy me a new flight on Alaska Airlines.
> 
> Sayhello


It may be they weren’t very clear or I was just not paying attention. At this time, I think maybe I just didn’t understand very clearly as it is my first time and I was in the middle of work when i got the call.
Thanks for the suggestion, I’ll look into that!


----------



## lpm23

Currently just starting a Thomson trip and having some serious regrets over not sticking with Disney. Still early days so my thoughts could change but this is my initial impression so far:
Things Disney does better:
There to check you in to hotel and assist with questions 
Gets your luggage taken to your room
Picks nicer hotels!  We have done 8 ABDs and have always stayed in hotels nicer than this. This is too much roughing it for me!


so nervous about this choice!!!


----------



## sayhello

lpm23 said:


> Currently just starting a Thomson trip and having some serious regrets over not sticking with Disney. Still early days so my thoughts could change but this is my initial impression so far:
> Things Disney does better:
> There to check you in to hotel and assist with questions
> Gets your luggage taken to your room
> Picks nicer hotels!  We have done 8 ABDs and have always stayed in hotels nicer than this. This is too much roughing it for me!
> 
> 
> so nervous about this choice!!!


You've only just started.  You haven't met your  Guide(s) yet.    Give it a chance!  I know you have a bad first impression, but I know folks who love Thomson.

Where are you traveling?

Sayhello


----------



## lpm23

sayhello said:


> You've only just started.  You haven't met your  Guide(s) yet.    Give it a chance!  I know you have a bad first impression, but I know folks who love Thomson.
> 
> Where are you traveling?
> 
> Sayhello


You are totally right. Just a creature of habit! And we love ABD.  Panama!


----------



## Calfan

lpm23 said:


> You are totally right. Just a creature of habit! And we love ABD.  Panama!



Hang in there!  We loved our trip with Thomson to China and will be traveling with them to Japan in Summer 2020. And I definitely do *not* rough it, lol. I’m wondering if some if it is a function of your destination, but I haven‘t been to Panama...


----------



## sayhello

lpm23 said:


> You are totally right. Just a creature of habit! And we love ABD.  Panama!


I totally get it.  I'm a creature of habit, too, and haven't even been brave enough to try another company yet.  Give yourself kudos for that!  And have a FABULOUS time!

Sayhello


----------



## Aelin1977

lpm23 said:


> Currently just starting a Thomson trip and having some serious regrets over not sticking with Disney. Still early days so my thoughts could change but this is my initial impression so far:
> Things Disney does better:
> There to check you in to hotel and assist with questions
> Gets your luggage taken to your room
> Picks nicer hotels!  We have done 8 ABDs and have always stayed in hotels nicer than this. This is too much roughing it for me!
> 
> 
> so nervous about this choice!!!



Did you arrive before the trip officially starts? Like a day or so in advance? If so, no tour company will have the guides there to meet you. I've traveled with ABD and National Geographic and we arrived before the official start of our trips with both companies and neither one had the guides waiting to meet us. They arranged the airport pick up but that was about it. We didn't meet our guides until the day the trip actually started. As for the hotels, you can't compare a 5 star hotel in Panama with a 5 star hotel in North America or even some parts of Europe. What they consider 5 star may only be a 3 star here in North America.


----------



## sayhello

Aelin1977 said:


> Did you arrive before the trip officially starts? Like a day or so in advance? If so, no tour company will have the guides there to meet you. I've traveled with ABD and National Geographic and we arrived before the official start of our trips with both companies and neither one had the guides waiting to meet us. They arranged the airport pick up but that was about it. We didn't meet our guides until the day the trip actually started. As for the hotels, you can't compare a 5 star hotel in Panama with a 5 star hotel in North America or even some parts of Europe. What they consider 5 star may only be a 3 star here in North America.


The OP stated they've taken 8 ABDs, so it's likely they know about the Guides not being there until the day the ABD starts.   But except for Iceland, I've usually had bell people and sometimes a concierge come out, grab the suitcases, and escort us to the Reception Desk. 

But your points about what constitutes a "5 star" hotel in Panama are likely very true (although I've never been)!    That might be part of the reason ABD doesn't do Panama.  Who knows!  (I'm mostly joking.  Iceland didn't have 5 star hotels or ANY bell staff at all, and ABD still goes there.)

Sayhello


----------



## lpm23

Aelin1977 said:


> Did you arrive before the trip officially starts? Like a day or so in advance? If so, no tour company will have the guides there to meet you. I've traveled with ABD and National Geographic and we arrived before the official start of our trips with both companies and neither one had the guides waiting to meet us. They arranged the airport pick up but that was about it. We didn't meet our guides until the day the trip actually started. As for the hotels, you can't compare a 5 star hotel in Panama with a 5 star hotel in North America or even some parts of Europe. What they consider 5 star may only be a 3 star here in North America.


Yes flew in first day of trip but no planned activities first day. Did the same thing on ABD Costa Rica and guides were there all day helping.
I understand that hotels vary although I figured it would be much more like Costa Rica ABD in terms of quality.

anyone in case others are curious on how comparison is:

today was first official day and we met guides etc. guide is great very comparable to ABD

the excursion was amazing and maybe a little too off the beaten bath to what Disney would try. It was really amazing!

things we are struggling with the hotel is still bad and that includes the pool being really murky and the food being pretty bad.

other challenge is they don’t have the same American food options for picky eaters. Lunch was fried bananas and fish. And that was it. So bring snacks etc in case you have kids who don’t like certain foods.

but overall excursion and activities were great and on par or better than a lot we have done with Disney


----------



## Candycane83

I know I asked this already on a separate thread but right now is actual decision time. So I went ahead and booked Tauck for Christmas Danube cruise before prices were released. They told me when I put the deposit down I can get a full refund if I did not like the price. So then ABD released their early booking a few weeks back and I ended up booking that too. I’m looking at the 2 itineraries and there are some differences. The one I booked for Tauck was westbound- embarking at Austria and disembarking at Germany. The Tauck itinerary is embarkation day at Vienna, one more day in Vienna, then Budapest,  Bratislava, Slovakia, Austria- Wachau Valley, Oberndorf and Passau. ABD on the other hand, we board in Germany and disembark at Budapest. ABD is going to Pasau then Linz, Austria, Melk, Austria Vienna, Vienna, Budapest, disembark. I’ve never been to any of these places. Have no idea if we’re ever going to go back. If it were you, which itinerary would you choose? Oh yes and price, so ABD cost over USD18K and Tauck costs CAD18K. Price difference would be over CAD5000 looking at the exchange right now. Help please!


----------



## sayhello

Candycane83 said:


> I know I asked this already on a separate thread but right now is actual decision time. So I went ahead and booked Tauck for Christmas Danube cruise before prices were released. They told me when I put the deposit down I can get a full refund if I did not like the price. So then ABD released their early booking a few weeks back and I ended up booking that too. I’m looking at the 2 itineraries and there are some differences. The one I booked for Tauck was westbound- embarking at Austria and disembarking at Germany. The Tauck itinerary is embarkation day at Vienna, one more day in Vienna, then Budapest,  Bratislava, Slovakia, Austria- Wachau Valley, Oberndorf and Passau. ABD on the other hand, we board in Germany and disembark at Budapest. ABD is going to Pasau then Linz, Austria, Melk, Austria Vienna, Vienna, Budapest, disembark. I’ve never been to any of these places. Have no idea if we’re ever going to go back. If it were you, which itinerary would you choose? Oh yes and price, so ABD cost over USD18K and Tauck costs CAD18K. Price difference would be over CAD5000 looking at the exchange right now. Help please!


That's hard to comment on without seeing the excursions that Tauck offers, vs the excursions that ABD offers.  But as you probably already know, your ABD deposit is non-refundable after 14 days, so if you cancel that one, you will have your 1800+ USD deposit held by ABD.  You can re-book using it (I believe within a year) but you won't be eligible for any discounts, as they are almost all only good for "New reservations", and yours will no longer be a new reservation.   I don' t know if that matters to you, or if you had already taken that into account, but felt I should mention it, just in case.

Honestly, the main advantage I see to the ABD cruise (aside from the Adventure Guides) is ending in Budapest, so that you could book a couple of post-days in that amazing city.

Sayhello


----------



## Candycane83

sayhello said:


> That's hard to comment on without seeing the excursions that Tauck offers, vs the excursions that ABD offers.  But as you probably already know, your ABD deposit is non-refundable after 14 days, so if you cancel that one, you will have your 1800+ USD deposit held by ABD.  You can re-book using it (I believe within a year) but you won't be eligible for any discounts, as they are almost all only good for "New reservations", and yours will no longer be a new reservation.   I don' t know if that matters to you, or if you had already taken that into account, but felt I should mention it, just in case.
> 
> Honestly, the main advantage I see to the ABD cruise (aside from the Adventure Guides) is ending in Budapest, so that you could book a couple of post-days in that amazing city.
> 
> Sayhello


Thanks @sayhello  yes I am past the 14 day mark already and my option would have been to move it. But since I could refund my deposit from Tauck, I am leaning on that more!


----------



## EllinK

I was thrilled to see the new ABD to New Zealand. However, given how ABD is treating clients during the crisis, I'm hesitant to pull the trigger on an expensive trip when there are still a lot of unknowns about what will happen with travel in the time of coronavirus. I'm also considering Black Sheep Touring Company (which has an amazing itinerary and is priced similarly to ABD for a 14 day trip) or Nat Geo's G Adventure who I believe had a similar-ish itinerary for a much lower price. Any experiences with Black Sheep or Nat Geo G Adventures? Or thoughts about these trips in general?


----------



## sayhello

EllinK said:


> I was thrilled to see the new ABD to New Zealand. However, given how ABD is treating clients during the crisis, I'm hesitant to pull the trigger on an expensive trip when there are still a lot of unknowns about what will happen with travel in the time of coronavirus. I'm also considering Black Sheep Touring Company (which has an amazing itinerary and is priced similarly to ABD for a 14 day trip) or Nat Geo's G Adventure who I believe had a similar-ish itinerary for a much lower price. Any experiences with Black Sheep or Nat Geo G Adventures? Or thoughts about these trips in general?


No idea if it will affect how the company is run or anything, but Disney owns (most of) Nat Geo G Adventures now.

Sayhello


----------



## TXTransplant

sayhello said:


> No idea if it will affect how the company is run or anything, but Disney owns (most of) Nat Geo G Adventures now.
> 
> Sayhello



Do they only own the Journeys/G adventures division?  If so, I'm not sure those trips are really comparable to what ABD offers.  Not saying one is better than the other - they are just different.

We are booked on a Nat Geo Expedition trip to Alaska (which I am fully expecting to be cancelled within the next week or so).  This is comparable to an ABD trip, especially in terms of itinerary/activities and accommodations (we were supposed to stay at Denali Backcountry Lodge).

This is the trip we booked:  https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...h-america/land/alaska-denali-to-kenai-fjords/

This would have been our first Nat Geo trip, so I am even more disappointed we likely won't get to experience what they offer.

One difference that I noted early on was that the expedition trips (that aren't specifically identified as a "family journey") are geared toward older travelers.  When I booked, the representative had to "check" with vendors to make sure my 15 year old son would be allowed on the trip.  I definitely got the impression that travelers with kids pretty much book the family journeys, and what I was requesting was unusual.  That could have just been the limited perspective of the representative who booked my trip, though.

As far as communication from Nat Geo goes, I wouldn't say it's been any more proactive than ABD.  Based on the posts here, it sounds like ABD sort of got their act together after the fiascoes of the London/Paris and Australia trips in mid-March, when the poop hit the fan.  They haven't been AS proactive as Tauck, but neither has Nat Geo (or other companies).

I have called Nat Geo a couple of times on my own, including once to move our trip from our original booking in early June to a trip in July.  I was watching what was going on in Alaska, and it became clear that nothing was going to be open in June.  The first call I've received that was not initiated by me was earlier this week, and it was mainly just a courtesy call (no shocking revelations or anything).  But, I was told that they would be making a decision about our trip within the next two weeks.  That is something they have maintained all along - giving people at least 5-6 weeks notice regarding cancellations.  At this point, that seems perfectly reasonable to me, and I would not expect anything more.  Honestly, if they had cancelled our trip earlier, I would have been miffed because we REALLY want to go on this trip, and I would hope they would do everything they can to save it (not jump the gun and cancel too early).

If they cancel, I also will have the option to receive a full refund, which is what I will choose.


----------



## sayhello

TXTransplant said:


> Do they only own the Journeys/G adventures division?  If so, I'm not sure those trips are really comparable to what ABD offers.  Not saying one is better than the other - they are just different.
> 
> We are booked on a Nat Geo Expedition trip to Alaska (which I am fully expecting to be cancelled within the next week or so).  This is comparable to an ABD trip, especially in terms of itinerary/activities and accommodations (we were supposed to stay at Denali Backcountry Lodge).
> 
> This is the trip we booked:  https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...h-america/land/alaska-denali-to-kenai-fjords/
> 
> This would have been our first Nat Geo trip, so I am even more disappointed we likely won't get to experience what they offer.
> 
> One difference that I noted early on was that the expedition trips (that aren't specifically identified as a "family journey") are geared toward older travelers.  When I booked, the representative had to "check" with vendors to make sure my 15 year old son would be allowed on the trip.  I definitely got the impression that travelers with kids pretty much book the family journeys, and what I was requesting was unusual.  That could have just been the limited perspective of the representative who booked my trip, though.
> 
> As far as communication from Nat Geo goes, I wouldn't say it's been any more proactive than ABD.  Based on the posts here, it sounds like ABD sort of got their act together after the fiascoes of the London/Paris and Australia trips in mid-March, when the poop hit the fan.  They haven't been AS proactive as Tauck, but neither has Nat Geo (or other companies).
> 
> I have called Nat Geo a couple of times on my own, including once to move our trip from our original booking in early June to a trip in July.  I was watching what was going on in Alaska, and it became clear that nothing was going to be open in June.  The first call I've received that was not initiated by me was earlier this week, and it was mainly just a courtesy call (no shocking revelations or anything).  But, I was told that they would be making a decision about our trip within the next two weeks.  That is something they have maintained all along - giving people at least 5-6 weeks notice regarding cancellations.  At this point, that seems perfectly reasonable to me, and I would not expect anything more.  Honestly, if they had cancelled our trip earlier, I would have been miffed because we REALLY want to go on this trip, and I would hope they would do everything they can to save it (not jump the gun and cancel too early).
> 
> If they cancel, I also will have the option to receive a full refund, which is what I will choose.


My understanding is they own a significant majority percentage all of the Nat Geo travel companies.

Sayhello


----------



## TXTransplant

sayhello said:


> My understanding is they own a significant majority percentage all of the Nat Geo travel companies.
> 
> Sayhello



That's what I thought.


----------



## lovetotravel

A travel company we kept bumping into during our ABD Peru trip was Gate 1 Travel. We stayed in some of the same hotels and I kept seeing their bus at the same sites, airport, etc. I interviewed one of the travelers when we were in the lobby and they traveled a lot with Gate 1 and were pretty happy. I did notice they had a smaller tour group and 1 tour guide. Most of the meals were not included, however they probably paid half the price we did to see all the main sites the same way we did.

I was still glad to go with ABD however, due to our wonderful guides and activities that made it special, or maybe I convinced myself that because I paid double what they did. But if I just wanted a basic trip and just wanted to get there, it seemed like an affordable option.


----------



## tgeorge

EllinK said:


> I was thrilled to see the new ABD to New Zealand. However, given how ABD is treating clients during the crisis, I'm hesitant to pull the trigger on an expensive trip when there are still a lot of unknowns about what will happen with travel in the time of coronavirus. I'm also considering Black Sheep Touring Company (which has an amazing itinerary and is priced similarly to ABD for a 14 day trip) or Nat Geo's G Adventure who I believe had a similar-ish itinerary for a much lower price. Any experiences with Black Sheep or Nat Geo G Adventures? Or thoughts about these trips in general?



We were also thrilled to see the itinerary, however, there was no way i was gett my husband on a group trip with 40 people. I took the itinerary and worked with an Australia/New Zealand specialist at Audley. She recreated the trip for me (with some modifications that I wanted). We have either private tours or small group tours in the locations with some added things (to include flights for us from Queenstown to Milford Sound so we can get on a cruise and don’t have to waste time with the drive there and back). The best part, the price was about the same per person. We have 24 hour in country support and they have a great policy to help change travel in case Covid is still an issue in 2022.

Good luck with finding a tour company you like, but something similar to what we did may also appeal to you.


----------



## lovetotravel

tgeorge said:


> We were also thrilled to see the itinerary, however, there was no way i was gett my husband on a group trip with 40 people. I took the itinerary and worked with an Australia/New Zealand specialist at Audley. She recreated the trip for me (with some modifications that I wanted). We have either private tours or small group tours in the locations with some added things (to include flights for us from Queenstown to Milford Sound so we can get on a cruise and don’t have to waste time with the drive there and back). The best part, the price was about the same per person. We have 24 hour in country support and they have a great policy to help change travel in case Covid is still an issue in 2022.
> 
> Good luck with finding a tour company you like, but something similar to what we did may also appeal to you.


Can you PM me the company? I’m very interested. Thank you!


----------



## tgeorge

lovetotravel said:


> Can you PM me the company? I’m very interested. Thank you!



@lovetotravel- I tried to send you a PM,  it it says I can’t start a conversation with you for some reason.


----------



## Theta

Did anyone have any experience with working with Tauck through this pandemic?  

We are considering booking a trip through them.  Has anyone booked any Tauck trips recently?  Has anyone found any promos, refundable deposits, cashback from travel agents or any other perks ?


----------



## iujen94

Theta said:


> Did anyone have any experience with working with Tauck through this pandemic?
> 
> We are considering booking a trip through them.  Has anyone booked any Tauck trips recently?  Has anyone found any promos, refundable deposits, cashback from travel agents or any other perks ?



We should be in Switzerland on the Tauck Bridges tour right now . Tauck was great. They did (and are still doing) rolling cancellations. I’m not positive, but I think they’ve currently cancelled tours through September. I think we had about 6-8 weeks notice of our cancellation?  We could get a full refund or a travel voucher worth more than our trip cost (I forget what the premium was, because we took the refund). Our TA said Tauck was quoting up to 12 weeks for the refunds to hit our credit card, but we got our refund in just a week or two. We are really hoping to be able to rebook for July 2021, but are going to wait before deciding.


----------



## scottmel

lovetotravel said:


> Can you PM me the company? I’m very interested. Thank you!


 Would you mind sending me a pm as well? Thanks!


----------



## lovetotravel

scottmel said:


> Would you mind sending me a pm as well? Thanks!


Audley Travel, agent Haley B


----------



## scottmel

lovetotravel said:


> Audley Travel, agent Haley B


Thanks! This is a trip planner like BLACKTOMATO correct? There are no meals etc. You receive a tour plan and off you go on your own correct?


----------



## laceltris3

We were supposed to be on a trip with Tauck last week. They were amazing. Very early, like March, they made PIF 30 days out. We had PIF for 3 out of the 5 of us. When they cancelled about 7 or so weeks out
 I could have had a full refund, plus change fees for my self-purchased flights. I left my money there, and received an incentive of $500 per person that was paid in full, and $250 for those who were not. I got on the wait list for the Siene river cruise for next summer, but we needed a suite to sleep 3 and they were sold out for the dates we wanted, so a few weeks later I went ahead and moved it to their Alpine Adventure, which was a more expensive trip that that had been cancelled. It hadn't priced for 2021 yet, and when it did price a month later, I had 2 weeks to cancel. I can still move my money around in the future to a different trip. No limitations like ABD on only moving the deposit once. 

In short Tauck could not possibly have handled this better and they are definitely my provider of choice now.


----------



## lovetotravel

scottmel said:


> Thanks! This is a trip planner like BLACKTOMATO correct? There are no meals etc. You receive a tour plan and off you go on your own correct?


I does look like a more of pre-planned OYO but there seems to be a huge appeal to this type of trip to me than ever before since COVID because it has less guests!


----------



## nemofans

Tauck is great!  We traveled with them twice and will again.  I did not have to deal with them during the lockdown bc we didn't have one scheduled this summer. I've heard good things from people who did though.


----------



## AquaDame

Has anyone done the Egypt/Petra tour with either Tauck or National Geographic..? We are looking more into going, but neither of us are particularly interested in snorkeling in the red sea as ABD does for the last few days of their tour. Seems like they kind of end on a low key note which isn't really our style - we figure we can do that sort of thing on our own.


----------



## sayhello

AquaDame said:


> Has anyone done the Egypt/Petra tour with either Tauck or National Geographic..? We are looking more into going, but neither of us are particularly interested in snorkeling in the red sea as ABD does for the last few days of their tour. Seems like they kind of end on a low key note which isn't really our style - we figure we can do that sort of thing on our own.


I have to admit the days at Sharm El Sheikh was one of the things that turned me off to the ABD itinerary. 

Sayhello


----------



## Rapunzellover

sayhello said:


> I have to admit the days at Sharm El Sheikh was one of the things that turned me off to the ABD itinerary.
> 
> Sayhello



I gotta ask... why did it turn you off?


----------



## AquaDame

Rapunzellover said:


> I gotta ask... why did it turn you off?



I'm sure she will be back to answer too. 

Going to a resort town to hang out for 2 1/2 days of a 10 day trip isn't why we'd go all the way to Egypt... it sounds like something you could do any number of places and the only thing they have on the itinerary for it is snorkeling which I'd never even heard of doing before. Its a lot of OYO time besides that.

Day 7 - morning at the valley of the kings, lunch, fly to sharm el sheikh, OYO the rest of the day. 
Day 8 - yacht/snorkeling, lunch at resort, OYO, beach party dinner.
Day 9 - OYO, lunch, fly to Cairo, farewell dinner.

I'd rather see the Valley of Queens, or the Temple of Edfu, or even the step or red pyramids in Cairo, personally. It does add for greater variety to go have a swim break/do something different but I don't think it'd be for us. (watch me eat my words in a year when people return from the trip and say it was their favorite part and they can't now imagine skipping it having been, lol).


----------



## sayhello

Rapunzellover said:


> I gotta ask... why did it turn you off?


Well, the first thing is what @AquaDame said.  Just hanging out at a resort for 2 1/2 days is something I can book myself as post-days.  Or anywhere else.  (Although I honestly wouldn't do that anyways).  And I've never heard of Sharm El Sheikh as being a fabulous snorkeling location before.  And at that, how many hours can you go snorkeling?  It's a *lot* of OYO time, and I really don't feel like going all the way to Egypt to sit at a resort.  Just not my thing.

But the other thing is the fact that you are "trapped" there.  I've read that it's still considered dangerous outside of the Resort area.  That just doesn't spell relaxing or adventurous to me.



AquaDame said:


> I'm sure she will be back to answer too.
> 
> Going to a resort town to hang out for 2 1/2 days of a 10 day trip isn't why we'd go all the way to Egypt... it sounds like something you could do any number of places and the only thing they have on the itinerary for it is snorkeling which I'd never even heard of doing before. Its a lot of OYO time besides that.
> 
> Day 7 - morning at the valley of the kings, lunch, fly to sharm el sheikh, OYO the rest of the day.
> Day 8 - yacht/snorkeling, lunch at resort, OYO, beach party dinner.
> Day 9 - OYO, lunch, fly to Cairo, farewell dinner.
> 
> I'd rather see the Valley of Queens, or the Temple of Edfu, or even the step or red pyramids in Cairo, personally. It does add for greater variety to go have a swim break/do something different but I don't think it'd be for us. (watch me eat my words in a year when people return from the trip and say it was their favorite part and they can't now imagine skipping it having been, lol).


Yep.  This is how I feel.  Short bits at a resort are OK, but I'm not going to enjoy 2 1/2 days there.  I'd rather do more touring.

Sayhello


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

sayhello said:


> I have to admit the days at Sharm El Sheikh was one of the things that turned me off to the ABD itinerary.
> 
> Sayhello


Me, too! When I looked UK airlines still wouldn't fly there.


----------



## Rapunzellover

sayhello said:


> Well, the first thing is what @AquaDame said.  Just hanging out at a resort for 2 1/2 days is something I can book myself as post-days.  Or anywhere else.  (Although I honestly wouldn't do that anyways).  And I've never heard of Sharm El Sheikh as being a fabulous snorkeling location before.  And at that, how many hours can you go snorkeling?  It's a *lot* of OYO time, and I really don't feel like going all the way to Egypt to sit at a resort.  Just not my thing.
> 
> But the other thing is the fact that you are "trapped" there.  I've read that it's still considered dangerous outside of the Resort area.  That just doesn't spell relaxing or adventurous to me.
> 
> Yep.  This is how I feel.  Short bits at a resort are OK, but I'm not going to enjoy 2 1/2 days there.  I'd rather do more touring.
> 
> Sayhello



Thanks for clarifying, and thanks Aquadame for chiming in.  These were pretty much also my reasons for deciding that I will use Tauck for Egypt when I go there (in probaby 3 years, depending on COVID-19).  I was just curious if I was missing something about Sharm el Sheikh.  The unable to leave the resort thing is what really got me when I read that.


----------



## AquaDame

Rapunzellover said:


> Thanks for clarifying, and thanks Aquadame for chiming in.  These were pretty much also my reasons for deciding that I will use Tauck for Egypt when I go there (in probaby 3 years, depending on COVID-19).  I was just curious if I was missing something about Sharm el Sheikh.  The unable to leave the resort thing is what really got me when I read that.



We'll have to wait for the trip reports... I'm thinking Tauck or Nat Geo. I like Tauck's Jordan option a little better though so I'm leaning that way - especially given the accolades for them as a tour company here.


----------



## Theta

I agree with you all on the Egypt itinerary.  We don't have to fly to Egypt to do a beach resort. 
I hope ABD revamps this part of the trip after the inaugural year.


----------



## AddictedtoTravel

We were scheduled the first year the trip was announced and didn't get to go due to the unrest in the area and ABD cancelled. I have friends that lived for many years in Moscow and traveled extensively. At the time when I told them I was going to Egypt they said whatever I did I MUST include Sharm el Sheikh. It was a do not miss. I typically would prefer to tour over hanging out at a resort as well but based on their recommendation I was looking forward to it. 

Looking forward to the trip reports.


----------



## AquaDame

AddictedtoTravel said:


> We were scheduled the first year the trip was announced and didn't get to go due to the unrest in the area and ABD cancelled. I have friends that lived for many years in Moscow and traveled extensively. At the time when I told them I was going to Egypt they said whatever I did I MUST include Sharm el Sheikh. It was a do not miss. I typically would prefer to tour over hanging out at a resort as well but based on their recommendation I was looking forward to it.
> 
> Looking forward to the trip reports.



Another bit about us specifically is when we went to East Africa we were encouraged to add time in on Zanzibar to decompress at the end. It was considered a do not miss, but miss it we did in order to have time to go down to Zimbabwe and see Vic Falls/spend a day in Chobe. Zero regrets. If the Egypt itinerary didn't skip sites the other tours provide to get there, I'd be all for it!


----------



## neurosx1983

AquaDame said:


> Another bit about us specifically is when we went to East Africa we were encouraged to add time in on Zanzibar to decompress at the end. It was considered a do not miss, but miss it we did in order to have time to go down to Zimbabwe and see Vic Falls/spend a day in Chobe. Zero regrets. If the Egypt itinerary didn't skip sites the other tours provide to get there, I'd be all for it!



check out A&K family Egypt itinerary. Fairly similar to Disney but without Sharm.  Also they stay at better hotel in Cairo (Four seasons).


----------



## aggiedog

Six weeks ago, on an impulse, decided to plan a trip with a family member to Iceland with Classic Journeys for this August (I mean, the case numbers _were _looking half decent at that point.)  My travel mate has used them extensively and really likes them. The representative said that if it were canceled due to Covid, I'd have a life-time credit to use for another trip.  However, I was also keeping an eye on Europe and was not going to buy an airline ticket until I knew I'd really be able to go.  Fast forward 7 weeks and there's no way the US will have few enough cases to pass European muster for Americans to travel there.  I'm waiting to see how Classic Journeys handles it, as they have yet to come out and say the trip is canceled. I am really, really hoping they don't pull an ABD and announce  the cancellation just a few days prior.


----------



## Calfan

aggiedog said:


> Six weeks ago, on an impulse, decided to plan a trip with a family member to Iceland with Classic Journeys for this August (I mean, the case numbers _were _looking half decent at that point.)  My travel mate has used them extensively and really likes them. The representative said that if it were canceled due to Covid, I'd have a life-time credit to use for another trip.  However, I was also keeping an eye on Europe and was not going to buy an airline ticket until I knew I'd really be able to go.  Fast forward 7 weeks and there's no way the US will have few enough cases to pass European muster for Americans to travel there.  I'm waiting to see how Classic Journeys handles it, as they have yet to come out and say the trip is canceled. I am really, really hoping they don't pull an ABD and announce  the cancellation just a few days prior.



Keep us posted.  I have never taken or booked a Classic Journeys trip, but I get their catalogs and there are several I have been eyeing for potential future trips.


----------



## YodasMom

I'm looking forward to hearing about a Classic Journeys tour, too. I receive their e-mails and catalogs, and have been interested in reviews.


----------



## Mathmagicland

AquaDame said:


> like Tauck's Jordan option a little better though so I'm leaning that way - especially given the accolades for them as a tour company here.


While I’ve not traveled with Tauck, I have some good friends who have taken several trips with them and think very highly of them.  In comparing to AbD, their observations are there is a similar quality level re types of accommodations and experiences.


----------



## aggiedog

Classic Journeys says they are waiting for the EU to re-evaluate the situation every two weeks.  I can't get the rep to commit to any sort of drop dead date at which point they would cancel.  I do have the option of transferring the money to a different trip though.  I'm assuming at no penalty but would have to confirm that.  

I'm torn.  If Iceland lets us in, I'd go.  I just don't want to buy an airline ticket at the very last minute.  If they are reevaluating July 15 and August 1, our trip is scheduled to leave Aug 7, which doesn't leave me much time.  I don't really want to go any later this year though, as I was supposed to tack a week on to drive up to the westfjords.  Any later, and driving will be risky with weather there.  Same until late early summer next year.  

And honestly, I can not see the EU letting Americans in any time soon.  We're practically a global typhoid Mary.

Bah, stupid Covid.


----------



## kaseyC

I'm looking forward to hearing your experience with Classic Journeys too.  They offer a very reasonable single supplement and I was considering them for a couple of future solo trips once I get my youngest daughter off to college in fall 2021.


----------



## Rapunzellover

aggiedog said:


> Classic Journeys says they are waiting for the EU to re-evaluate the situation every two weeks.  I can't get the rep to commit to any sort of drop dead date at which point they would cancel.  I do have the option of transferring the money to a different trip though.  I'm assuming at no penalty but would have to confirm that.
> 
> I'm torn.  If Iceland lets us in, I'd go.  I just don't want to buy an airline ticket at the very last minute.  If they are reevaluating July 15 and August 1, our trip is scheduled to leave Aug 7, which doesn't leave me much time.  I don't really want to go any later this year though, as I was supposed to tack a week on to drive up to the westfjords.  Any later, and driving will be risky with weather there.  Same until late early summer next year.
> 
> And honestly, I can not see the EU letting Americans in any time soon.  We're practically a global typhoid Mary.
> 
> Bah, stupid Covid.



There is no practically about it:  we are global pariahs.  And a global laughingstock.  

My thought re:  your Iceland trip is that even if the EU says US citizens can enter, it will likely impose quarantine.   So I honestly  dont see your trip happening.   Every day, it gets less and less likely that any real international travel will happen this year.  I'm starting to doubt things will even get better by next summer.  

But on the upside, you can save up the money for an even more spectacular trip when it's all said and done! Silver lining, maybe?


----------



## aggiedog

Iceland is currently covid testing all arrivals at the airport and you are notified within 12 hours of your status. If you are positive, you go to a testing center and they test you for antibodies.  If those are present, they assume you are not contagious and you carry on with your vacation.  If no antibodies, you quarantine until you are no longer contagious and can fly home.  It is a gamble, but one I was willing to take.  

I confirmed I can transfer the funds to any other trip I want without penalty.  I still can't get them to say what the drop dead date is for when they would cancel the trip.


----------



## laceltris3

I just got a survey from Tauck (we rolled the money from our cancelled June trip to a trip next summer). It was maybe 4 questions, but it asked about things like: are you willing to travel without a vaccine, when do you think you will travel, how far out do you think you would make the decision, etc. They said this information would help them plan for the future, and I appreciate that they are being proactive and not just making people PIF and then wait to see if it'll be cancelled.


----------



## WishUponAStarryNight

laceltris3 said:


> I just got a survey from Tauck (we rolled the money from our cancelled June trip to a trip next summer). It was maybe 4 questions, but it asked about things like: are you willing to travel without a vaccine, when do you think you will travel, how far out do you think you would make the decision, etc. They said this information would help them plan for the future, and I appreciate that they are being proactive and not just making people PIF and then wait to see if it'll be cancelled.


I received the survey, too.  I agree that it’s nice to see them taking a proactive approach.


----------



## sayhello

aggiedog said:


> Iceland is currently covid testing all arrivals at the airport and you are notified within 12 hours of your status. If you are positive, you go to a testing center and they test you for antibodies.  If those are present, they assume you are not contagious and you carry on with your vacation.  If no antibodies, you quarantine until you are no longer contagious and can fly home.  It is a gamble, but one I was willing to take.


From what I read, after an initial 2 week period (which ended July 1st) *you* have to pay for the COVID-19 test at the airport.  It was originally going to be 15,000 ISK ($107 USD).  But now they've reduced it to 11,000 ISK ($77) if paid on site or 9000 ISK ($64) if paid in advance. 

There's a lot of info here:

https://www.landlaeknir.is/servlet/file/store93/item41745/GA Passengerinfo updated 14062020.pdf

Sayhello


----------



## aggiedog

For sure you have to pay.  It was free in the first week or two when they were testing the system then a set price for all travelers, though the price has dropped since.  They just announced today that people, of any nationality, who have spent at least the previous 2 weeks in Germany, Denmark, Norway, and Finland will not be tested starting July 16.

Classic Journeys is trying to find out from the Iceland vendors when the latest cancelation date can be, though looking at the US numbers, I really just need to go ahead and cancel.  I knew they would continue to get worse, but actually seeing it brings it home.

The rep mentioned trying to just get me a full refund.  Not sure if that is lip service or good customer service.  That would be best, since I'd rather not have that much money tied up in a credit somewhere.


----------



## Dis_Yoda

laceltris3 said:


> I just got a survey from Tauck (we rolled the money from our cancelled June trip to a trip next summer). It was maybe 4 questions, but it asked about things like: are you willing to travel without a vaccine, when do you think you will travel, how far out do you think you would make the decision, etc. They said this information would help them plan for the future, and I appreciate that they are being proactive and not just making people PIF and then wait to see if it'll be cancelled.



We decided on Tuscany/Umbria on our next trip.  I'm thinking 2022 though rather than 2021 as I think so many of the 2020 people will make 2021 busier.  

We love Tauck - have done two Small Group Tours with them now (13 night -Normandy, Loire Valley, Paris and Brittany & A Week In...Amalfi Coast, Capri and Rome)


----------



## aggiedog

Heard back from Classic Journeys.  They are willing to let me wait as long as I want before canceling (trip is scheduled to go August 9), though can't guarantee they'll be able to refund me based on what the providers in Iceland decide at the very last minute, I can switch the entire trip cost to another trip, or they will transfer just the deposit to another trip and refund me the balance.  This last bit was not part of their standard procedure I think but much appreciated.  I have enough money tied up in credits at other companies or airlines, and will most likely choose this last option.


----------



## aggiedog

I decided to cancel my Iceland trip.  They have not called it yet, but there's no way Americans will be welcome in Europe in 3 weeks.  I had a full refund on my credit card within 2 days, minus the $300 deposit, which can be parked indefinitely.  I'm very happy with the way things were handled.

I'm considering moving the deposit to a Morocco trip next March. Still playing the odds a bit but it can't hurt to have something to look forward to.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

aggiedog said:


> I decided to cancel my Iceland trip.  They have not called it yet, but there's no way Americans will be welcome in Europe in 3 weeks.  I had a full refund on my credit card within 2 days, minus the $300 deposit, which can be parked indefinitely.  I'm very happy with the way things were handled.
> 
> I'm considering moving the deposit to a Morocco trip next March. Still playing the odds a bit but it can't hurt to have something to look forward to.


I am glad to hear this. Classic Journeys has several trips that look interesting; with their low single supplement I am pretty sure I will travel with them at some point in the future.


----------



## Hannah nz

Does anyone have any recommendations for Antarctica? It's a bucket list trip for us in the future but since we are all stuck at home this year I am keen to look into it.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

National Geographic / Linblad. We went with A&K (family) and while it was okay, our next trip to Antarctica will be with Nat Geo. I understand they are the best to travel with to the region. Tagging @calypso726 as she went with Nat Geo. I also appreciate the way they have handled their cancelled cruises during the pandemic.

I do not, repeat do not, under any circumstances, recommend Quark. Avoid them at all costs (see my comments on Quark, look them up on BBB and visit their FB page for corroboration -- they are a terrible company to deal with -- very unethical and dishonest).

If you are considering A&K, let me know if you have any questions. But if you are able I'd definitely try to book with Nat Geo.


----------



## calypso726

Hannah nz said:


> Does anyone have any recommendations for Antarctica? It's a bucket list trip for us in the future but since we are all stuck at home this year I am keen to look into it.



I would have totally done it with ABD if it were an option. However, it wasn’t. I did a lot of research on Antarctica since it was for my 50th and figured it would be a once in a lifetime trip. We went with NatGeo/Linblad and have no regrets. We chose the smaller of the two expedition ships in order to be able to make more landings and not have to minimize our time at each landing. The experience was the most amazing experience ever! If time and cost were not a factor I’d do it again in a heartbeat and choose NatGeo/Linblad once again.


----------



## Theta

calypso726 said:


> I would have totally done it with ABD if it were an option. However, it wasn’t. I did a lot of research on Antarctica since it was for my 50th and figured it would be a once in a lifetime trip. We went with NatGeo/Linblad and have no regrets. We chose the smaller of the two expedition ships in order to be able to make more landings and not have to minimize our time at each landing. The experience was the most amazing experience ever! If time and cost were not a factor I’d do it again in a heartbeat and choose NatGeo/Linblad once again.



Which of the Antarctica itineraries did you choose? 

Do you recall what month you traveled?


----------



## Hannah nz

calypso726 said:


> I would have totally done it with ABD if it were an option. However, it wasn’t. I did a lot of research on Antarctica since it was for my 50th and figured it would be a once in a lifetime trip. We went with NatGeo/Linblad and have no regrets. We chose the smaller of the two expedition ships in order to be able to make more landings and not have to minimize our time at each landing. The experience was the most amazing experience ever! If time and cost were not a factor I’d do it again in a heartbeat and choose NatGeo/Linblad once again.



Which trip did you take? I was looking for one that goes into the Antarctic circle but only the $60,000 trip seems to.  They do look great, problem is I can't decide which areas are best to see as the itineraries are vastly different.


----------



## laceltris3

I haven't seen anyone mention it, but I noticed the additional Tauck updates last week continue to be impressed. The best part is that none of the penalties or deposits seem to be forfeited, but that the worst case scenario in any circumstance is that the money goes to a credit to be used by the end of next year, for any travel this calendar year. 

It also seems like they have put a lot of effort into working with their hotels and other providers and that they are limiting the number of people on trips, and that yes, you might have to wear a mask. I know that much remains up in the air, but it is nice to see concrete things they are doing to plan for the future.


----------



## Woodview

$ 60,000          for how many days vacation    & for how many people ?


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Hannah nz said:


> Which trip did you take? I was looking for one that goes into the Antarctic circle but only the $60,000 trip seems to.  They do look great, problem is I can't decide which areas are best to see as the itineraries are vastly different.


Very few of the Antarctica cruises go the South Pole and none are guaranteed to due to ice (this applies to all Antarctic landings, but especially the South Pole). Ours went to the Falkland Islands, S. Georgia (which I highly recommend as the penguins and fur seals are amazing) and the Antarctic Peninsula (21 days on the ship). It was a lot of fun and I'm glad that we got to visit the Falkland Islands (on Christmas day - which was kind of nice as the shops / restaurants opened for us and one other ship). The ship was lovely (brand new), but we had 190 passengers, so had to visit the islands in 2 groups -- not a huge deal as we didn't feel that this had a negative impact on our experience, but something to consider.

I'd recommend avoiding the cruises that have you fly to the Antarctic as they planes are affected by the weather and you may be delayed by a day or two (meaning your cruise is shortened accordingly).

If you ever see pictures of ships docked in ice and people walking out from the ship stairs to ice, those are the ones that go to the South Pole. The cruises that go to the Antarctic peninsula (but not the South Pole) use Zodiaks to reach land.

There are so many itineraries, look at the different ones and choose the one that best suits your plans and budget. I personally would avoid the ships that have over 200 passengers as they are not able to land at many sites. As I said previously, I would go with Nat Geo if we were to visit again (and I would definitely like to).


----------



## calypso726

Theta said:


> Which of the Antarctica itineraries did you choose?
> 
> Do you recall what month you traveled?



I did the 14 day Journey to Antarctica on the Orion. If time were not a factor I would have preferred the 24 day Antarctica, South Georgia and the Falklands.

Yes, we departed December 25 from Miami. The timing was prefect as we got to see many of the fuzzy penguin chicks



Hannah nz said:


> Which trip did you take? I was looking for one that goes into the Antarctic circle but only the $60,000 trip seems to.  They do look great, problem is I can't decide which areas are best to see as the itineraries are vastly different.



Because of the limited time I had, I chose journey to Antarctica. If possible, I would have spent more time in Antarctica and visited South Georgia.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

Hannah nz said:


> Does anyone have any recommendations for Antarctica? It's a bucket list trip for us in the future but since we are all stuck at home this year I am keen to look into it.


I've never been--it's definitely on my list but probably 5-10 years when I stop the hiking trips. I did a cruise through my university in May 2019 of the British Isles that was incredible. It was done through Zegrahm. I'd never heard of them before, but they were wonderful. I'd read the COVID info though. It looks like they didn't give refunds so something to keep in mind. But their Antarctica trip that is timed to the eclipse in 2021 would be very cool: https://www.zegrahm.com/expedition/...arctica-south-georgia-november-2021/itinerary


----------



## Calfan

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> I've never been--it's definitely on my list but probably 5-10 years when I stop the hiking trips. I did a cruise through my university in May 2019 of the British Isles that was incredible. It was done through Zegrahm. I'd never heard of them before, but they were wonderful. I'd read the COVID info though. It looks like they didn't give refunds so something to keep in mind. But their Antarctica trip that is timed to the eclipse in 2021 would be very cool: https://www.zegrahm.com/expedition/...arctica-south-georgia-november-2021/itinerary



Count me in for Antarctica in 5 to 10!!!


----------



## Hannah nz

Woodview said:


> $ 60,000          for how many days vacation    & for how many people ?




Its the "*EPIC ANTARCTICA: FROM THE PENINSULA TO THE ROSS SEA & BEYOND" *
34 days days from Buenos Ares to New Zealand but you embark on day 2 and arrive in NZ on day 32. It is also in Australian dollars as I am from NZ and using the au. version of the website.



*WDW*Groupie* said:


> Very few of the Antarctica cruises go the South Pole and none are guaranteed to due to ice (this applies to all Antarctic landings, but especially the South Pole). Ours went to the Falkland Islands, S. Georgia (which I highly recommend as the penguins and fur seals are amazing) and the Antarctic Peninsula (21 days on the ship). It was a lot of fun and I'm glad that we got to visit the Falkland Islands (on Christmas day - which was kind of nice as the shops / restaurants opened for us and one other ship). The ship was lovely (brand new), but we had 190 passengers, so had to visit the islands in 2 groups -- not a huge deal as we didn't feel that this had a negative impact on our experience, but something to consider.
> 
> I'd recommend avoiding the cruises that have you fly to the Antarctic as they planes are affected by the weather and you may be delayed by a day or two (meaning your cruise is shortened accordingly).
> 
> If you ever see pictures of ships docked in ice and people walking out from the ship stairs to ice, those are the ones that go to the South Pole. The cruises that go to the Antarctic peninsula (but not the South Pole) use Zodiaks to reach land.
> 
> There are so many itineraries, look at the different ones and choose the one that best suits your plans and budget. I personally would avoid the ships that have over 200 passengers as they are not able to land at many sites. As I said previously, I would go with Nat Geo if we were to visit again (and I would definitely like to).



We don't need to go to the South Pole but I think going so far I would like to cross into the Antarctic circle. There are some trips that do this - image attached - but a lot of the companies are more basic level like G adventures or ones I have never heard of. I think if we are going this far and remote I need to make sure the company and the inclusions are perfect.

We would prefer a smaller group size for sure. Would you say South Georgia and the Falkland Islands are a must do? It seems to be a balance of the more varied sights with visits to the other islands or more time in Antarctica.



calypso726 said:


> I did the 14 day Journey to Antarctica on the Orion. If time were not a factor I would have preferred the 24 day Antarctica, South Georgia and the Falklands.
> 
> Yes, we departed December 25 from Miami. The timing was prefect as we got to see many of the fuzzy penguin chicks
> 
> 
> 
> Because of the limited time I had, I chose journey to Antarctica. If possible, I would have spent more time in Antarctica and visited South Georgia.



Thanks! I am of the same thought of spending more time which usually leads to us having longer vacations. Being in NZ it can take 48 hours just to get to the start of the tour/trip.


----------



## Mathmagicland

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> National Geographic / Linblad. We went with A&K (family) and while it was okay, our next trip to Antarctica will be with Nat Geo. I understand they are the best to travel with to the region. Tagging @calypso726 as she went with Nat Geo. I also appreciate the way they have handled their cancelled cruises during the pandemic.
> 
> I do not, repeat do not, under any circumstances, recommend Quark. Avoid them at all costs (see my comments on Quark, look them up on BBB and visit their FB page for corroboration -- they are a terrible company to deal with -- very unethical and dishonest).
> 
> If you are considering A&K, let me know if you have any questions. But if you are able I'd definitely try to book with Nat Geo.





calypso726 said:


> I would have totally done it with ABD if it were an option. However, it wasn’t. I did a lot of research on Antarctica since it was for my 50th and figured it would be a once in a lifetime trip. We went with NatGeo/Linblad and have no regrets. We chose the smaller of the two expedition ships in order to be able to make more landings and not have to minimize our time at each landing. The experience was the most amazing experience ever! If time and cost were not a factor I’d do it again in a heartbeat and choose NatGeo/Linblad once again.


Thanks to you both for sharing this info,  I’m another who has Antarctica on my bucket list. I’ve been starting to research different options for a couple of years.  There are so many choices.  

I’ve been hoping that since NatGeo is now part of the Disney family of companies, that it will some day be an AbD option.  I even put Antarctica as my top choice for a new AbD destination on a survey I got last year. Your comments and recommendations reinforce that for me.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Hannah nz said:


> Its the "*EPIC ANTARCTICA: FROM THE PENINSULA TO THE ROSS SEA & BEYOND" *
> 34 days days from Buenos Ares to New Zealand but you embark on day 2 and arrive in NZ on day 32. It is also in Australian dollars as I am from NZ and using the au. version of the website.
> 
> 
> 
> We don't need to go to the South Pole but I think going so far I would like to cross into the Antarctic circle. There are some trips that do this - image attached - but a lot of the companies are more basic level like G adventures or ones I have never heard of. I think if we are going this far and remote I need to make sure the company and the inclusions are perfect.
> 
> We would prefer a smaller group size for sure. Would you say South Georgia and the Falkland Islands are a must do? It seems to be a balance of the more varied sights with visits to the other islands or more time in Antarctica.


That itinerary sounds incredible. If you can swing the time and cost then I wouldn't hesitate to book it. While I really enjoyed the Falkland Islands, S. Georgia and the Shetland Islands, given the choice between the cruise we did and the Nat Geo Epic Antarctica I would book the latter without hesitation.


----------



## CaliKris

We just booked a Kenya and Tanzania safari trip with Tauck for 2022.  It is really nice that they offer "the gift of time" (a free pre or post night for travelers who have taken one or more Tauck trips before).  I really think ABD needs to consider giving more perks to previous ABD travelers/loyal customers.  

Now I have two years to wait and plan, but it is nice to think about traveling again.


----------



## Dis_Yoda

CaliKris said:


> We just booked a Kenya and Tanzania safari trip with Tauck for 2022.  It is really nice that they offer "the gift of time" (a free pre or post night for travelers who have taken one or more Tauck trips before).  I really think ABD needs to consider giving more perks to previous ABD travelers/loyal customers.
> 
> Now I have two years to wait and plan, but it is nice to think about traveling again.



I'm waiting for their 2022 Italy dates to come out so I can book their Umbria tour.  I'm ready to have a big countdown trip again!


----------



## AddictedtoTravel

I canceled the December Winter in Wyoming but still have March 2021 Portugal (crossing fingers) and March 2022 New Zealand. 

I've starting getting the Starbucks Cheese and Fruit Protein Box (very similar to my favorite Alaska Airlines Fruit & Cheese plate) for lunch, eating at my desk while watching something on my phone pretending I'm 35,000 feet in the air heading somewhere, anywhere


----------



## aggiedog

Next decision - we have deposits (only $300/person thankfully) with G Adventures for Japan in December.  PIF is September 17-ish.  Right now Americans aren't allowed into Japan, so no way am I buying 6 trans-Pacific flights.  I've been waiting to contact them until we got closer, which has turned into now.  I'm pretty sure we can just transfer the deposits to another trip, but I'm really bummed that Japan is probably (almost definitely) not in the cards for us.


----------



## Theta

CaliKris said:


> We just booked a Kenya and Tanzania safari trip with Tauck for 2022.  It is really nice that they offer "the gift of time" (a free pre or post night for travelers who have taken one or more Tauck trips before).  I really think ABD needs to consider giving more perks to previous ABD travelers/loyal customers.
> 
> Now I have two years to wait and plan, but it is nice to think about traveling again.




What is Tauck's cancellation policy?  I can't seem to find it.  Do they have a policy like ABD's full refund of deposits up to final payment date?


----------



## wdhinn89

https://www.tauck.com/travel-policy-update


----------



## scottmel

I have begun researching Classic Journeys as they have 10 to 12 people per tour group. Much more appealing than a cattle call to me of ABD as of late. My SOCal trip was awesome with 22. My NYC one at 39 not so much. I am booked with ABD for May Italy but finding Classic Journeys interesting as I listened to a podcast talk the owner gave and it sounded appealing. ANYONE with experience with this group? DH summed it up best that Classic Journeys seems to visit off the beaten path things - not so much hot tourist spots. I find that interesting, DH is on the fence.  ABD is slightly LESS expensive due to open day discount. 

Just concerned the europe thing will be up in the air next summer and I will be on pins and needles waiting for the whole cancel thing....


----------



## Calfan

scottmel said:


> I have begun researching Classic Journeys as they have 10 to 12 people per tour group. Much more appealing than a cattle call to me of ABD as of late. My SOCal trip was awesome with 22. My NYC one at 39 not so much. I am booked with ABD for May Italy but finding Classic Journeys interesting as I listened to a podcast talk the owner gave and it sounded appealing. ANYONE with experience with this group? DH summed it up best that Classic Journeys seems to visit off the beaten path things - not so much hot tourist spots. I find that interesting, DH is on the fence.  ABD is slightly LESS expensive due to open day discount.
> 
> Just concerned the europe thing will be up in the air next summer and I will be on pins and needles waiting for the whole cancel thing....



I have not travelled with Classic Journeys, but I get their catalogs and emails, and a number of their trips appeal to me.  If you end up taking one of their trips, I'll be very interested in your feedback.


----------



## lovetotravel

.


----------



## scottmel

lovetotravel said:


> I would heavily research their cancellation and insurance policies, esp how they handled things during COVID.
> I have read their reviews before on other sites and they seem all over the place.
> I noticed they run private tours for educational companies.


Thx I did just that and agree all over place, thx for the reminder!  I think easier to plan Japan on my own with ability to easily cancel etc or just stick in usa in 2021. Holding onto the Italy abd for May for now but with pif due in January??


----------



## aggiedog

My dh's cousin has used Classic Journeys several times and loves them.  She and I were actually scheduled to travel together with CJ (first time for me) to Iceland in September.  I had signed up for the trip in June, so knew it was iffy.  We decided to cancel the trip a month out, as I was unwilling to commit to airfare not knowing if I'd get the refund promptly and I did not want to find out a week or less before departure that they were indeed not traveling, as that would impact my ability to work (I'm a doctor and need time to get patients scheduled.)  They refunded all of my money except the deposit and we transferred the deposit to one of their Morocco trips in March (I'm feeling lucky - LOL.)  I've been very happy with the way they've handled things so far.


----------



## wdhinn89

scottmel said:


> I have begun researching Classic Journeys as they have 10 to 12 people per tour group. Much more appealing than a cattle call to me of ABD as of late. My SOCal trip was awesome with 22. My NYC one at 39 not so much. I am booked with ABD for May Italy but finding Classic Journeys interesting as I listened to a podcast talk the owner gave and it sounded appealing. ANYONE with experience with this group? DH summed it up best that Classic Journeys seems to visit off the beaten path things - not so much hot tourist spots. I find that interesting, DH is on the fence.  ABD is slightly LESS expensive due to open day discount.
> 
> Just concerned the europe thing will be up in the air next summer and I will be on pins and needles waiting for the whole cancel thing....


Have you checked out Tauck Tours? We used them for our trip to Italy and were very, very happy


----------



## TeeKo

Maybe I shouldn’t bump this up but did you notice webmaster shutting down all non-ABD  threads?


----------



## scottmel

No I didn't notice. Seriously? Cancel culture. Now you are monitored on what you can post about?


----------



## Raya

TeeKo said:


> Maybe I shouldn’t bump this up but did you notice webmaster shutting down all non-ABD  threads?


Hopefully an April Fool's Day joke?


----------



## TeeKo

Tauck, Nat Geo, Thomson Family threads all shut down


----------



## iujen94

Probably because Dreams (the travel company) doesn’t sell those other products. That’s a bummer - I’ve gotten so much helpful info on those threads.


----------



## kaseyC

That's a shame.  I hope this thread isn't shut down.  It's been one of the most helpful and informative threads on this board.  It's been active for over 10 years!!  It covers much more than other options, there are many posts about ABD as well.


----------



## sayhello

TeeKo said:


> Maybe I shouldn’t bump this up but did you notice webmaster shutting down all non-ABD  threads?





kaseyC said:


> That's a shame.  I hope this thread isn't shut down.  It's been one of the most helpful and informative threads on this board.  It's been active for over 10 years!!  It covers much more than other options, there are many posts about ABD as well.


Kevin created this thread in 2016 (by merging other threads with the now 10-year-old Other Options thread) as the place where we were allowed to discuss other travel options along with ABD.  I would hope that means we can keep it.

Sayhello


----------



## TeeKo

Thanks for the history, SayHello
Hopefully this thread lives on as I have found it so helpful.


----------



## aggiedog

Me too. ABD attracts seasoned travelers who have been so very helpful to me over the years.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

TeeKo said:


> Maybe I shouldn’t bump this up but did you notice webmaster shutting down all non-ABD  threads?





kaseyC said:


> That's a shame.  I hope this thread isn't shut down.  It's been one of the most helpful and informative threads on this board.  It's been active for over 10 years!!  It covers much more than other options, there are many posts about ABD as well.





sayhello said:


> Kevin created this thread in 2016 (by merging other threads with the now 10-year-old Other Options thread) as the place where we were allowed to discuss other travel options along with ABD.  I would hope that means we can keep it.
> 
> Sayhello


I noticed and hoped it was an April Fool's joke, too. This board has always been a great source of travel information; I am extremely disappointed to see some of those other threads shut down. I hope Dreams will step in and prevent further shutdowns of threads that are extremely helpful to their customers.


----------



## Calfan

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> I noticed and hoped it was an April Fool's joke, too. This board has always been a great source of travel information; I am extremely disappointed to see some of those other threads shut down. I hope Dreams will step in and prevent further shutdowns of threads that are extremely helpful to their customers.



Ditto!!


----------



## bamagoofy

They do handle many other types and brands of travel. I have personally used them for other brands.


----------



## GuardMusic

bamagoofy said:


> They do handle many other types and brands of travel. I have personally used them for other brands.



Then I don't understand why they would limit this board.


----------



## Chirple

I don’t think this particular forum is being limited; I think too many non-ABD related threads were opened when the questions could have been posted here in this thread.  They probably should have been merged vs locked.


----------



## WeLoveABD

Chirple said:


> I don’t think this particular forum is being limited; I think too many non-ABD related threads were opened when the questions could have been posted here in this thread.  They probably should have been merged vs locked.


I have mixed feelings about all of this, but ultimately I accept that this is a business tool and has been very helpful to me re information on ABD travel, and tips on travel in general. We have traveled on Tauck, Viking, AmaWaterways and others-- all great trips-- and all very different. Comparing companies might have some useful purpose but not much, just like hearing complaints about group sizes, cost etc. ABD provides a quality product, but it isn't going to be the right fit for everyone. If I want ABD info I come here first-- mostly helpful; and sometimes a discussion about another travel company did send me exploring to that company's website.  So as I say, mixed feelings about the blocking of some threads, but understandable. I would bet comparison discussion can occur, just not under a thread title like "Tauck Tours" or "Thompson " etc!


----------



## OKW Lover

GuardMusic said:


> Then I don't understand why they would limit this board.


Kathy was pretty clear, this board is for ABD only.


----------



## WebmasterKathy

This forum is for discussion of Adventures by Disney. Any discussion or questions regarding other companies should be kept on this one specific thread (Other Options), or posted on forums specific to those companies.


----------



## DCLMP

In 2022 my son wants to do a Danube river cruise for his last cruise as an under 18  rather than a DCL Baltic cruise..  I've looked at Tauck and ABD. The price difference is about 1000. It's not significant enough to not book ABD.  What is the difference between the two as far as customer service and cancellations.  I know the last two years have not been the norm as far as cancellations go, but I'm hoping things are more normal in 2022.


----------



## EllinK

I love this thread. We travel with DCL and ABD but this thread is so useful for pre and post days etc.


----------



## aggiedog

I just got back from my Classic Journeys Morocco trip if anyone has any questions.  It was a great trip with some pluses and minuses traveling right now.


----------



## sayhello

aggiedog said:


> I just got back from my Classic Journeys Morocco trip if anyone has any questions.  It was a great trip with some pluses and minuses traveling right now.


I would very much like to hear your opinion of Classic Journeys.  I'm seriously considering a domestic trip with them for this fall, and would love to get your impressions.

Thanks!  
Sayhello


----------



## AddictedtoTravel

aggiedog said:


> I just got back from my Classic Journeys Morocco trip if anyone has any questions.  It was a great trip with some pluses and minuses traveling right now.


I have been considering this trip for several years now. I would love to know your impressions. How were the experiences, guides and the quality?
Thanks!


----------



## Marthasor

DCLMP said:


> In 2022 my son wants to do a Danube river cruise for his last cruise as an under 18  rather than a DCL Baltic cruise..  I've looked at Tauck and ABD. The price difference is about 1000. It's not significant enough to not book ABD.  What is the difference between the two as far as customer service and cancellations.  I know the last two years have not been the norm as far as cancellations go, but I'm hoping things are more normal in 2022.



I'm not sure if this is helpful or not - I've traveled with both companies, though not on river cruises (tried to do ABD Rhine last year, but you know how that ended up!!).  Tauck was very nice, but I did not feel like we got the personalized service we received from ABD.  I will travel with ABD again (and I'm looking forward to it!), whereas, I don't know if I would travel with Tauck again.  I will also mention that I looked at doing a river cruise directly through Amawaterways to try to cut ABD costs a bit, but after doing research, I still booked with ABD because of the programming for the kids (my DS is 13 and he was looking forward to eating dinner with peers and NOT his parents, LOL!).  If you want to cut costs a little and your son doesn't need the Jr. ABD programming, maybe look into booking directly with Ama?  Any way you slice it, I think you are going to have a good experience.  All good companies.


----------



## BluesTraveler

@aggiedog, if you have the time/energy I would really love as many details as possible!


----------



## blabadie

aggiedog said:


> I just got back from my Classic Journeys Morocco trip if anyone has any questions.  It was a great trip with some pluses and minuses traveling right now.



I would love to hear your impressions of this trip, both the tour company and Morocco (favorite sites, activities, hotels).  The more details the better!


----------



## DCLMP

Marthasor said:


> I'm not sure if this is helpful or not - I've traveled with both companies, though not on river cruises (tried to do ABD Rhine last year, but you know how that ended up!!).  Tauck was very nice, but I did not feel like we got the personalized service we received from ABD.  I will travel with ABD again (and I'm looking forward to it!), whereas, I don't know if I would travel with Tauck again.  I will also mention that I looked at doing a river cruise directly through Amawaterways to try to cut ABD costs a bit, but after doing research, I still booked with ABD because of the programming for the kids (my DS is 13 and he was looking forward to eating dinner with peers and NOT his parents, LOL!).  If you want to cut costs a little and your son doesn't need the Jr. ABD programming, maybe look into booking directly with Ama?  Any way you slice it, I think you are going to have a good experience.  All good companies.


Thanks for the info. The only thing  holding me up is the non refundable deposits.


----------



## aggiedog

Ok, I've got a crazy work week and then I'm having my hip replaced on Monday.  I'll definitely come back and give more details when I have time to do it coherently.  I'll be making a photo book soon, so I can send a link to anyone that wants it once I finish.  

Bottom line, it was a beautiful country.  The people were very nice.  It was surprisingly, shockingly, varied in climate and ecology - 3 mountain ranges, fertile fields, deserts, a 120 mile long oasis.  Classic Journeys did a great job.  Our guide was fantastic, as was our driver.  It was supposed to be up to 15 people but it was just the 3 of us, (myself, dh, and his cousin.)  It was nice to not have any crowds anywhere, but many tourist sites/restaurants/shops were also closed.  There is a curfew now so no late dinners in cafes watching people.  Had to be back in our hotel by 8:00pm.  It was a "culture and walking" tour, which had a 3-4 mile walk built into the schedule every 2-3 days.  I'm not sure I'd do that part again.  I  like to hike, but general meandering thru the backs of town and fields is not my thing.  Dh's cousin loved it.  Our walk thru the oasis was amazing, though.


----------



## sayhello

aggiedog said:


> Ok, I've got a crazy work week and then I'm having my hip replaced on Monday.  I'll definitely come back and give more details when I have time to do it coherently.  I'll be making a photo book soon, so I can send a link to anyone that wants it once I finish.
> 
> Bottom line, it was a beautiful country.  The people were very nice.  It was surprisingly, shockingly, varied in climate and ecology - 3 mountain ranges, fertile fields, deserts, a 120 mile long oasis.  Classic Journeys did a great job.  Our guide was fantastic, as was our driver.  It was supposed to be up to 15 people but it was just the 3 of us, (myself, dh, and his cousin.)  It was nice to not have any crowds anywhere, but many tourist sites/restaurants/shops were also closed.  There is a curfew now so no late dinners in cafes watching people.  Had to be back in our hotel by 8:00pm.  It was a "culture and walking" tour, which had a 3-4 mile walk built into the schedule every 2-3 days.  I'm not sure I'd do that part again.  I  like to hike, but general meandering thru the backs of town and fields is not my thing.  Dh's cousin loved it.  Our walk thru the oasis was amazing, though.


Thanks, and best wishes for your hip replacement!!  

Sayhello


----------



## aggiedog

Work has been a little slower than expected...

CJ's starts their tours at 9:00am the first day, so no including your travel day as part of the tour.  Because of that, and flight requirements, we ended up flying in 2 nights early.  Got to Casablanca that first afternoon and stayed at a hotel recommended by CJ, Hotel le Doge.  Super nice little boutique hotel.  We had arranged a transfer thru CJ to get to Fes, where the tour started, for the next morning.  Even though the tour didn't officially start until our day 3, our guide and driver came to make the 3 hour transfer for us, which was a nice extra.  He got us to our Fes hotel, Hotel Sahrai, and got us settled in.  The hotel was nice, with a "hip" sky bar populated by a lot of locals until 8:00pm curfew. 

The actual tour started the next morning.  We went first to the medina (old town) where our guide had grown up.  It is a combo of markets, tannery (big tourist spot), and homes in a warren of small alleys and tunnels, since the second floor often overhangs and touches the neighbors.  Without a guide, I'd've been completely lost.  Over 50% of the stalls were closed.   The tannery, and the adjoining leather product coop, was a stop.  I ended up buying a custom leather jacket kind of on a whim.  We had also stopped at a rug coop, where we learned a little bit and mostly just sat there while they tried to sell us something.  I wasn't too thrilled about that. We had a late lunch and then back to the hotel for a rest and dinner.

Day 2 was a trip to a local farm and goat cheese producer, a 4 mile walk thru the country side with some very pretty views, and then a huge late lunch back at the farm.  Lots of food was a common theme on the trip.  Meals were huge.  From there we went to the Jewish quarter to see an old synagogue.  We were supposed to do dinner at a local super nice restaurant, but it was closed due to Covid, so dinner was covered at the hotel.

Day 3 began our drive to the eastern edge and the desert.  We stopped in the mountains for a short walk thru the cedar forest.  The parking lot had Barbary Macaques, which was fun, though one stole the water bottle right out of one of our pockets.  Then it was a long drive back out of the mountains and into the desert.  We stopped in Erfoud at a hotel owned by a French gentleman, L'Hotel by chateau de Sable, with definite French service.  They were fantastic, and it was a little oasis in the desert.  We got there late as Morocco has frequent police checks along the highway for your guide's correct paperwork and the bus's speed monitor.

Day 4 was a tour at a local kasbah with a Toareg tribe member who also happened to have a PhD in anthropology.  He was very engaging, and was able to find us some real turbans to purchase for our upcoming camel ride thru the desert.  CJ's supplied us with free scarves, but they were small and nowhere near as effective as the "real" ones the locals use.  We then did a 3 mile walk around the area and the village before ending up at the local market.  We were supposed to go to a local famous mausoleum, but it was closed due to Covid. After our tour, we were brought to a local Berber rug coop and given a short presentation on Berber items and rugs.  Dh's cousin ended up buying 2 rugs, which were beautiful.  It was not too hard of a sell, and they were very friendly.  We actually had about 90 minutes to kill in a lounge off of one of the restaurants there.  We decided that due to our small group size and some locations being closed, we had a lot more downtime than a normal tour.  From there we got into a landrover with a new driver, who took us out to the edge of the Sahara, where we met our camels.  The camel ride was about an hour, with a stop on top a tall dune for pictures and a break, before getting to our camp.  I think this was the most memorable part of the trip, just because it was quintessentially Moroccan.  Our turbans, btw, worked great.   The camp was very luxurious, and our tent had running water and a toilet.  Definite glamping.  Dinner was good, and there was drumming and singing around a campfire before bed.  Our guide said the family trips tend to get to the camp earlier so they have time for sand boarding down the dunes.

Day 5 we got up and had coffee while I searched for animal tracks in the sand.  I'm a biology geek and was pretty stoked to find fennec fox and scarab beetle tracks.  We'd had the choice of camel ride back to the edge of the sand, or land rover.  We chose land rover, and dh told the driver to "let loose."  It was an interesting start to the day, slipping and sliding up and over dunes.  Once back on real roads we started to head back to the green parts of the country.  It was a long drive, with a stop for a 3 mile walk thru the world's largest oasis.  The oasis runs for 120 miles along a riverbed that cuts thru the dessert.  It was like a verdant beautiful park, with an easy walk thru orchards and fields.  We ended up in Ouarzazate, the Hollywood of Morocco (many movies have been filmed there including the live action Aladin, Gladiator, GOT, etc.)  The hotel was nice, though the rooms dates, and almost empty.  I think they had 7 guests total.  The staff were very nice, and dinner was ok.  Again, we didn't have many other options as most restaurants were closed.

Day 6 we first went to Ait ben Haddou, a kasbah/village on a hillside made famous due to the many movies that have been filmed there.  It was very picturesque and full of little shops, most of which were closed.  Our guide kept shaking his head and saying how full it usually is.  I was glad there weren't hoards of tourists, as the streets were narrow and steep, but I felt bad for the locals that are really hurting due to the pandemic.  There were a few local artists that were open and we bought a couple of nice small pictures.  Then we  drove up and thru the mountains to get to Marrakech.  Our hotel had canceled on us because we were the only 2 rooms booked.  CJ had already taken care of it and had us booked at La Maison Arabe, a super luxury riad style hotel.  We were upgraded to suites, and overall this was probably the nicest hotel I've ever stayed at.  We had dinner at a local very good restaurant, including a dessert with orange blossom infusion.  That's a big thing here and very good.

Day 7 started with a PCR Covid test arranged by CJ and done at the hotel, so we could get on a plane to come home.  Then we took a horse drawn carriage ride around the area, which seems a "thing to do" as there were many carriages around.   We ended up at the Yves Saint Laurent botanical garden and museum, which was beautiful and interesting, and had the nicest bathrooms on the trip (bonus.)  From there we went to the medina, which is larger and much more open than Fes's.  Again, many/most places were closed, but I was able to find a few things I wanted to bring back as gifts for my partners who I am leaving high and dry between Morocco and my surgery.  We had a free afternoon that our guide was willing to fill with whatever we wanted, but we elected to go relax at the hotel.  We had dinner at the hotel, which was quite good, and then we retired to our private courtyard and sipped the champagne they had left in our room.  I'm telling you, this place was NICE.

Day 8 was a 4 mile walk along a neighboring valley and a visit to a local school, where we brought them some supplies.  It was a pretty walk ending with a slightly nerve wracking low suspension bridge over the river, and the kids were cute, but I feel a little weird showing up as some benevolent white person handing things out.  The afternoon was also free and I decided to use the spa at the hotel for a hammam and massage.  A hammam is a Moroccan experience of being bathed, scrubbed, and generally rubbed all over.  It was really interesting, mostly relaxing, and probably something anyone who wants to experience the culture should do.  We had dinner at the hotel and then went to our rooms to pack to go home.

General impressions - the people were friendly and very very happy to see tourists.  The culture is seems very open and tolerant, and while the population is majority Islamic, our guide made sure to say that full burqas are not encouraged.  We saw women in everything from short sleeves and bare heads to more traditional robes and head/face coverings.  Many men, even young ones, wore the traditional jalabiya, which is a long hooded robe used as outerwear, over their jeans and while riding scooters or donkeys.  Our guide said the king had introduced many measures over the last 20 years encouraging tolerance and moderation of religion and strengthening Berber traditions, including now teaching Berber in schools. They are welcoming and the tradition is to offer mint tea to visitors, so we got it at hotels, restaurants, stores, etc.  Most people were not wearing masks, but the Covid rate for the country is low.  Partly this is because in general, movement is restricted.  We found out that locals can't just drive to the next city - you have to have papers from your municipality giving you permission.  I think this is a standard, pre-covid thing, and part of being ruled by a king.  I would definitely go back, maybe to explore the mountains more.

Classic Journeys seemed to be very well run.  Our guide was personable, responsible, and definitely up to the task.  They don't do flight arrangements or pre/post tour lodging not at the first or last hotels, but our contact person before hand had several helpful tips and suggestions.  

Feel free to ask any specifics I left out.


----------



## laceltris3

I am sooooo excited. It's also good to see they have updated the travel guidance from the CDC. Since my husband and I have been vaccinated, we will only need to get tests for the kids. Our trip is scheduled for early June. 

Dear Tauck Guest,

Are you ready to explore the world again? So are we! *We are thrilled to let you know that as of now your trip will be operating!*

In anticipation of your upcoming journey, we have taken many steps to assure your comfort and well-being while you are traveling with us. Consistent with recently updated CDC guidelines, all Tauck guests must be fully vaccinated 14 days before departure or receive a negative PCR COVID-19 test within five days of departure for their journey.


----------



## sayhello

aggiedog said:


> Work has been a little slower than expected...
> 
> CJ's starts their tours at 9:00am the first day, so no including your travel day as part of the tour.  Because of that, and flight requirements, we ended up flying in 2 nights early.  Got to Casablanca that first afternoon and stayed at a hotel recommended by CJ, Hotel le Doge.  Super nice little boutique hotel.  We had arranged a transfer thru CJ to get to Fes, where the tour started, for the next morning.  Even though the tour didn't officially start until our day 3, our guide and driver came to make the 3 hour transfer for us, which was a nice extra.  He got us to our Fes hotel, Hotel Sahrai, and got us settled in.  The hotel was nice, with a "hip" sky bar populated by a lot of locals until 8:00pm curfew.
> 
> The actual tour started the next morning.  We went first to the medina (old town) where our guide had grown up.  It is a combo of markets, tannery (big tourist spot), and homes in a warren of small alleys and tunnels, since the second floor often overhangs and touches the neighbors.  Without a guide, I'd've been completely lost.  Over 50% of the stalls were closed.   The tannery, and the adjoining leather product coop, was a stop.  I ended up buying a custom leather jacket kind of on a whim.  We had also stopped at a rug coop, where we learned a little bit and mostly just sat there while they tried to sell us something.  I wasn't too thrilled about that. We had a late lunch and then back to the hotel for a rest and dinner.
> 
> Day 2 was a trip to a local farm and goat cheese producer, a 4 mile walk thru the country side with some very pretty views, and then a huge late lunch back at the farm.  Lots of food was a common theme on the trip.  Meals were huge.  From there we went to the Jewish quarter to see an old synagogue.  We were supposed to do dinner at a local super nice restaurant, but it was closed due to Covid, so dinner was covered at the hotel.
> 
> Day 3 began our drive to the eastern edge and the desert.  We stopped in the mountains for a short walk thru the cedar forest.  The parking lot had Barbary Macaques, which was fun, though one stole the water bottle right out of one of our pockets.  Then it was a long drive back out of the mountains and into the desert.  We stopped in Erfoud at a hotel owned by a French gentleman, L'Hotel by chateau de Sable, with definite French service.  They were fantastic, and it was a little oasis in the desert.  We got there late as Morocco has frequent police checks along the highway for your guide's correct paperwork and the bus's speed monitor.
> 
> Day 4 was a tour at a local kasbah with a Toareg tribe member who also happened to have a PhD in anthropology.  He was very engaging, and was able to find us some real turbans to purchase for our upcoming camel ride thru the desert.  CJ's supplied us with free scarves, but they were small and nowhere near as effective as the "real" ones the locals use.  We then did a 3 mile walk around the area and the village before ending up at the local market.  We were supposed to go to a local famous mausoleum, but it was closed due to Covid. After our tour, we were brought to a local Berber rug coop and given a short presentation on Berber items and rugs.  Dh's cousin ended up buying 2 rugs, which were beautiful.  It was not too hard of a sell, and they were very friendly.  We actually had about 90 minutes to kill in a lounge off of one of the restaurants there.  We decided that due to our small group size and some locations being closed, we had a lot more downtime than a normal tour.  From there we got into a landrover with a new driver, who took us out to the edge of the Sahara, where we met our camels.  The camel ride was about an hour, with a stop on top a tall dune for pictures and a break, before getting to our camp.  I think this was the most memorable part of the trip, just because it was quintessentially Moroccan.  Our turbans, btw, worked great.   The camp was very luxurious, and our tent had running water and a toilet.  Definite glamping.  Dinner was good, and there was drumming and singing around a campfire before bed.  Our guide said the family trips tend to get to the camp earlier so they have time for sand boarding down the dunes.
> 
> Day 5 we got up and had coffee while I searched for animal tracks in the sand.  I'm a biology geek and was pretty stoked to find fennec fox and scarab beetle tracks.  We'd had the choice of camel ride back to the edge of the sand, or land rover.  We chose land rover, and dh told the driver to "let loose."  It was an interesting start to the day, slipping and sliding up and over dunes.  Once back on real roads we started to head back to the green parts of the country.  It was a long drive, with a stop for a 3 mile walk thru the world's largest oasis.  The oasis runs for 120 miles along a riverbed that cuts thru the dessert.  It was like a verdant beautiful park, with an easy walk thru orchards and fields.  We ended up in Ouarzazate, the Hollywood of Morocco (many movies have been filmed there including the live action Aladin, Gladiator, GOT, etc.)  The hotel was nice, though the rooms dates, and almost empty.  I think they had 7 guests total.  The staff were very nice, and dinner was ok.  Again, we didn't have many other options as most restaurants were closed.
> 
> Day 6 we first went to Ait ben Haddou, a kasbah/village on a hillside made famous due to the many movies that have been filmed there.  It was very picturesque and full of little shops, most of which were closed.  Our guide kept shaking his head and saying how full it usually is.  I was glad there weren't hoards of tourists, as the streets were narrow and steep, but I felt bad for the locals that are really hurting due to the pandemic.  There were a few local artists that were open and we bought a couple of nice small pictures.  Then we  drove up and thru the mountains to get to Marrakech.  Our hotel had canceled on us because we were the only 2 rooms booked.  CJ had already taken care of it and had us booked at La Maison Arabe, a super luxury riad style hotel.  We were upgraded to suites, and overall this was probably the nicest hotel I've ever stayed at.  We had dinner at a local very good restaurant, including a dessert with orange blossom infusion.  That's a big thing here and very good.
> 
> Day 7 started with a PCR Covid test arranged by CJ and done at the hotel, so we could get on a plane to come home.  Then we took a horse drawn carriage ride around the area, which seems a "thing to do" as there were many carriages around.   We ended up at the Yves Saint Laurent botanical garden and museum, which was beautiful and interesting, and had the nicest bathrooms on the trip (bonus.)  From there we went to the medina, which is larger and much more open than Fes's.  Again, many/most places were closed, but I was able to find a few things I wanted to bring back as gifts for my partners who I am leaving high and dry between Morocco and my surgery.  We had a free afternoon that our guide was willing to fill with whatever we wanted, but we elected to go relax at the hotel.  We had dinner at the hotel, which was quite good, and then we retired to our private courtyard and sipped the champagne they had left in our room.  I'm telling you, this place was NICE.
> 
> Day 8 was a 4 mile walk along a neighboring valley and a visit to a local school, where we brought them some supplies.  It was a pretty walk ending with a slightly nerve wracking low suspension bridge over the river, and the kids were cute, but I feel a little weird showing up as some benevolent white person handing things out.  The afternoon was also free and I decided to use the spa at the hotel for a hammam and massage.  A hammam is a Moroccan experience of being bathed, scrubbed, and generally rubbed all over.  It was really interesting, mostly relaxing, and probably something anyone who wants to experience the culture should do.  We had dinner at the hotel and then went to our rooms to pack to go home.
> 
> General impressions - the people were friendly and very very happy to see tourists.  The culture is seems very open and tolerant, and while the population is majority Islamic, our guide made sure to say that full burqas are not encouraged.  We saw women in everything from short sleeves and bare heads to more traditional robes and head/face coverings.  Many men, even young ones, wore the traditional jalabiya, which is a long hooded robe used as outerwear, over their jeans and while riding scooters or donkeys.  Our guide said the king had introduced many measures over the last 20 years encouraging tolerance and moderation of religion and strengthening Berber traditions, including now teaching Berber in schools. They are welcoming and the tradition is to offer mint tea to visitors, so we got it at hotels, restaurants, stores, etc.  Most people were not wearing masks, but the Covid rate for the country is low.  Partly this is because in general, movement is restricted.  We found out that locals can't just drive to the next city - you have to have papers from your municipality giving you permission.  I think this is a standard, pre-covid thing, and part of being ruled by a king.  I would definitely go back, maybe to explore the mountains more.
> 
> Classic Journeys seemed to be very well run.  Our guide was personable, responsible, and definitely up to the task.  They don't do flight arrangements or pre/post tour lodging not at the first or last hotels, but our contact person before hand had several helpful tips and suggestions.
> 
> Feel free to ask any specifics I left out.


Morocco was never really on my radar.  Your report may have changed that....

Sayhello


----------



## TeeKo

laceltris3 said:


> I am sooooo excited. It's also good to see they have updated the travel guidance from the CDC. Since my husband and I have been vaccinated, we will only need to get tests for the kids. Our trip is scheduled for early June.
> 
> Dear Tauck Guest,
> 
> Are you ready to explore the world again? So are we! *We are thrilled to let you know that as of now your trip will be operating!*
> 
> In anticipation of your upcoming journey, we have taken many steps to assure your comfort and well-being while you are traveling with us. Consistent with recently updated CDC guidelines, all Tauck guests must be fully vaccinated 14 days before departure or receive a negative PCR COVID-19 test within five days of departure for their journey.



Congratulations! When and when are you going?


----------



## blabadie

aggiedog said:


> Work has been a little slower than expected...
> 
> CJ's starts their tours at 9:00am the first day, so no including your travel day as part of the tour.  Because of that, and flight requirements, we ended up flying in 2 nights early.  Got to Casablanca that first afternoon and stayed at a hotel recommended by CJ, Hotel le Doge.  Super nice little boutique hotel.  We had arranged a transfer thru CJ to get to Fes, where the tour started, for the next morning.  Even though the tour didn't officially start until our day 3, our guide and driver came to make the 3 hour transfer for us, which was a nice extra.  He got us to our Fes hotel, Hotel Sahrai, and got us settled in.  The hotel was nice, with a "hip" sky bar populated by a lot of locals until 8:00pm curfew.
> 
> The actual tour started the next morning.  We went first to the medina (old town) where our guide had grown up.  It is a combo of markets, tannery (big tourist spot), and homes in a warren of small alleys and tunnels, since the second floor often overhangs and touches the neighbors.  Without a guide, I'd've been completely lost.  Over 50% of the stalls were closed.   The tannery, and the adjoining leather product coop, was a stop.  I ended up buying a custom leather jacket kind of on a whim.  We had also stopped at a rug coop, where we learned a little bit and mostly just sat there while they tried to sell us something.  I wasn't too thrilled about that. We had a late lunch and then back to the hotel for a rest and dinner.
> 
> Day 2 was a trip to a local farm and goat cheese producer, a 4 mile walk thru the country side with some very pretty views, and then a huge late lunch back at the farm.  Lots of food was a common theme on the trip.  Meals were huge.  From there we went to the Jewish quarter to see an old synagogue.  We were supposed to do dinner at a local super nice restaurant, but it was closed due to Covid, so dinner was covered at the hotel.
> 
> Day 3 began our drive to the eastern edge and the desert.  We stopped in the mountains for a short walk thru the cedar forest.  The parking lot had Barbary Macaques, which was fun, though one stole the water bottle right out of one of our pockets.  Then it was a long drive back out of the mountains and into the desert.  We stopped in Erfoud at a hotel owned by a French gentleman, L'Hotel by chateau de Sable, with definite French service.  They were fantastic, and it was a little oasis in the desert.  We got there late as Morocco has frequent police checks along the highway for your guide's correct paperwork and the bus's speed monitor.
> 
> Day 4 was a tour at a local kasbah with a Toareg tribe member who also happened to have a PhD in anthropology.  He was very engaging, and was able to find us some real turbans to purchase for our upcoming camel ride thru the desert.  CJ's supplied us with free scarves, but they were small and nowhere near as effective as the "real" ones the locals use.  We then did a 3 mile walk around the area and the village before ending up at the local market.  We were supposed to go to a local famous mausoleum, but it was closed due to Covid. After our tour, we were brought to a local Berber rug coop and given a short presentation on Berber items and rugs.  Dh's cousin ended up buying 2 rugs, which were beautiful.  It was not too hard of a sell, and they were very friendly.  We actually had about 90 minutes to kill in a lounge off of one of the restaurants there.  We decided that due to our small group size and some locations being closed, we had a lot more downtime than a normal tour.  From there we got into a landrover with a new driver, who took us out to the edge of the Sahara, where we met our camels.  The camel ride was about an hour, with a stop on top a tall dune for pictures and a break, before getting to our camp.  I think this was the most memorable part of the trip, just because it was quintessentially Moroccan.  Our turbans, btw, worked great.   The camp was very luxurious, and our tent had running water and a toilet.  Definite glamping.  Dinner was good, and there was drumming and singing around a campfire before bed.  Our guide said the family trips tend to get to the camp earlier so they have time for sand boarding down the dunes.
> 
> Day 5 we got up and had coffee while I searched for animal tracks in the sand.  I'm a biology geek and was pretty stoked to find fennec fox and scarab beetle tracks.  We'd had the choice of camel ride back to the edge of the sand, or land rover.  We chose land rover, and dh told the driver to "let loose."  It was an interesting start to the day, slipping and sliding up and over dunes.  Once back on real roads we started to head back to the green parts of the country.  It was a long drive, with a stop for a 3 mile walk thru the world's largest oasis.  The oasis runs for 120 miles along a riverbed that cuts thru the dessert.  It was like a verdant beautiful park, with an easy walk thru orchards and fields.  We ended up in Ouarzazate, the Hollywood of Morocco (many movies have been filmed there including the live action Aladin, Gladiator, GOT, etc.)  The hotel was nice, though the rooms dates, and almost empty.  I think they had 7 guests total.  The staff were very nice, and dinner was ok.  Again, we didn't have many other options as most restaurants were closed.
> 
> Day 6 we first went to Ait ben Haddou, a kasbah/village on a hillside made famous due to the many movies that have been filmed there.  It was very picturesque and full of little shops, most of which were closed.  Our guide kept shaking his head and saying how full it usually is.  I was glad there weren't hoards of tourists, as the streets were narrow and steep, but I felt bad for the locals that are really hurting due to the pandemic.  There were a few local artists that were open and we bought a couple of nice small pictures.  Then we  drove up and thru the mountains to get to Marrakech.  Our hotel had canceled on us because we were the only 2 rooms booked.  CJ had already taken care of it and had us booked at La Maison Arabe, a super luxury riad style hotel.  We were upgraded to suites, and overall this was probably the nicest hotel I've ever stayed at.  We had dinner at a local very good restaurant, including a dessert with orange blossom infusion.  That's a big thing here and very good.
> 
> Day 7 started with a PCR Covid test arranged by CJ and done at the hotel, so we could get on a plane to come home.  Then we took a horse drawn carriage ride around the area, which seems a "thing to do" as there were many carriages around.   We ended up at the Yves Saint Laurent botanical garden and museum, which was beautiful and interesting, and had the nicest bathrooms on the trip (bonus.)  From there we went to the medina, which is larger and much more open than Fes's.  Again, many/most places were closed, but I was able to find a few things I wanted to bring back as gifts for my partners who I am leaving high and dry between Morocco and my surgery.  We had a free afternoon that our guide was willing to fill with whatever we wanted, but we elected to go relax at the hotel.  We had dinner at the hotel, which was quite good, and then we retired to our private courtyard and sipped the champagne they had left in our room.  I'm telling you, this place was NICE.
> 
> Day 8 was a 4 mile walk along a neighboring valley and a visit to a local school, where we brought them some supplies.  It was a pretty walk ending with a slightly nerve wracking low suspension bridge over the river, and the kids were cute, but I feel a little weird showing up as some benevolent white person handing things out.  The afternoon was also free and I decided to use the spa at the hotel for a hammam and massage.  A hammam is a Moroccan experience of being bathed, scrubbed, and generally rubbed all over.  It was really interesting, mostly relaxing, and probably something anyone who wants to experience the culture should do.  We had dinner at the hotel and then went to our rooms to pack to go home.
> 
> General impressions - the people were friendly and very very happy to see tourists.  The culture is seems very open and tolerant, and while the population is majority Islamic, our guide made sure to say that full burqas are not encouraged.  We saw women in everything from short sleeves and bare heads to more traditional robes and head/face coverings.  Many men, even young ones, wore the traditional jalabiya, which is a long hooded robe used as outerwear, over their jeans and while riding scooters or donkeys.  Our guide said the king had introduced many measures over the last 20 years encouraging tolerance and moderation of religion and strengthening Berber traditions, including now teaching Berber in schools. They are welcoming and the tradition is to offer mint tea to visitors, so we got it at hotels, restaurants, stores, etc.  Most people were not wearing masks, but the Covid rate for the country is low.  Partly this is because in general, movement is restricted.  We found out that locals can't just drive to the next city - you have to have papers from your municipality giving you permission.  I think this is a standard, pre-covid thing, and part of being ruled by a king.  I would definitely go back, maybe to explore the mountains more.
> 
> Classic Journeys seemed to be very well run.  Our guide was personable, responsible, and definitely up to the task.  They don't do flight arrangements or pre/post tour lodging not at the first or last hotels, but our contact person before hand had several helpful tips and suggestions.
> 
> Feel free to ask any specifics I left out.



Thank you for the detailed trip report!  Sound like some truly unique experiences.  

Best wishes for a successful surgery and smooth recovery!


----------



## aggiedog

Thanks for the well wishes, everyone.  That certainly wasn't on my radar for this year, but there you go. 

Morocco wasn't on my radar either.  We'd had a trip to Iceland planned with CJ for September that obviously didn't go.  This trip fit our time and budget constraints, so we moved our deposit to it and then just waited to see if it would happen.  I've learned that there are plenty of places on the planet I'd never thought of going to that were still amazing and worth the time spent there, so now I'm pretty much open to anywhere that isn't a physical safety risk.


----------



## OffToDWD

Has anyone (or their kids) done the Nat Geo student expedition?  If so, would love to know if it's recommended and how the experience was (good or bad).  Thanks!


----------



## laceltris3

TeeKo said:


> Congratulations! When and when are you going?



We were originally doing the Alpine Adventure/Switzerland and Austria in June, but in November I got the sense that Europe might not happen, or be an experience we really wanted this summer, so I changed it to Cowboy Country, which is the Grand Tetons, Yellowstone, over to Mount Rushmore/S. Dakota. I bought our flight last week which was almost full, and got notice overnight the direct flight was cancelled and now I have to stop in Denver. The planes were changed on pretty much every leg.


----------



## TeeKo

We had booked Ireland with Thomson Family in 2019 to travel in 2020. (Mine is one of the posts that was locked) 
Essentially $8k deposit made in Spring 2019. Last year, moved the deposit to travel in 2021.
Just received notice that the trip has been canceled.
I was presented two options 
1) private trip to Ireland in 2022 (opposed to group trip)
2) move my deposit to another destination 

I was not given the option to just get my money back. Although I assume it has to be an option, they just didn’t want to say it. Not sure what I am going to do. I have sympathy for a small company in the pandemic. I don’t need the money back but certainly feel a little weird about the interest free loan sitting out there for 3 years. But we do eventually want to go to Ireland anyway. And would my CC protect my deposit if Thomson went out of business?
 Don’t know what we are going to do yet.


----------



## sayhello

TeeKo said:


> We had booked Ireland with Thomson Family in 2019 to travel in 2020. (Mine is one of the posts that was locked)
> Essentially $8k deposit made in Spring 2019. Last year, moved the deposit to travel in 2021.
> Just received notice that the trip has been canceled.
> I was presented two options
> 1) private trip to Ireland in 2022 (opposed to group trip)
> 2) move my deposit to another destination
> 
> I was not given the option to just get my money back. Although I assume it has to be an option, they just didn’t want to say it. Not sure what I am going to do. I have sympathy for a small company in the pandemic. I don’t need the money back but certainly feel a little weird about the interest free loan sitting out there for 3 years. But we do eventually want to go to Ireland anyway. And would my CC protect my deposit if Thomson went out of business?
> Don’t know what we are going to do yet.


I'd check with your credit card company about whether you'd be covered or not.  I doubt it would be covered as a charge (it has been way too long since you charged it and that kind of coverage usually has a time limit) but it *might* be covered under travel protection if your credit card has travel protection, and it covers providers going out of business.

Personally, I'd request a refund.   After you get the refund, let them know you plan to travel with them in the future.  But I'm not sure it's your responsibility to keep them afloat by, as you say, giving them an interest-free loan.  You're not getting any benefit out of leaving the money with them, so it really is just an interest-free loan.

Sayhello


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

sayhello said:


> Morocco was never really on my radar.  Your report may have changed that....
> 
> Sayhello


Ditto from me. Thanks @aggiedog for the great write up!


----------



## Calfan

TeeKo said:


> We had booked Ireland with Thomson Family in 2019 to travel in 2020. (Mine is one of the posts that was locked)
> Essentially $8k deposit made in Spring 2019. Last year, moved the deposit to travel in 2021.
> Just received notice that the trip has been canceled.
> I was presented two options
> 1) private trip to Ireland in 2022 (opposed to group trip)
> 2) move my deposit to another destination
> 
> I was not given the option to just get my money back. Although I assume it has to be an option, they just didn’t want to say it. Not sure what I am going to do. I have sympathy for a small company in the pandemic. I don’t need the money back but certainly feel a little weird about the interest free loan sitting out there for 3 years. But we do eventually want to go to Ireland anyway. And would my CC protect my deposit if Thomson went out of business?
> Don’t know what we are going to do yet.



We were in a similar position with about the same amount in deposits to Thomson for a June 2020 Japan trip that obviously didn't go.  Our travel agent pressed them hard, and they refunded our deposit.  Initially they were saying we could only move it to another trip.


----------



## laceltris3

TeeKo said:


> We had booked Ireland with Thomson Family in 2019 to travel in 2020. (Mine is one of the posts that was locked)
> Essentially $8k deposit made in Spring 2019. Last year, moved the deposit to travel in 2021.
> Just received notice that the trip has been canceled.
> I was presented two options
> 1) private trip to Ireland in 2022 (opposed to group trip)
> 2) move my deposit to another destination
> 
> I was not given the option to just get my money back. Although I assume it has to be an option, they just didn’t want to say it. Not sure what I am going to do. I have sympathy for a small company in the pandemic. I don’t need the money back but certainly feel a little weird about the interest free loan sitting out there for 3 years. But we do eventually want to go to Ireland anyway. And would my CC protect my deposit if Thomson went out of business?
> Don’t know what we are going to do yet.



That's tough. Especially if they aren't giving you an incentive to keep your money there.

I would look at the agreement/documentation when you booked for refundability. It would depend on the card, obviously, but I don't think you would have protection there. Maybe under the travel insurance provisions. I don't know how those policies are about vendor insolvency. The basic situation is that you would be an unsecured creditor in any bankruptcy and would get pennies on the dollar, if anything.


----------



## Woodview

Phone them up         And  Talk to them     ....  " e " mail  or Texting is not worth it .

                ..................      From   an Irish  person   living in  Cork      

             Yes we are in a shut down  / lock down   situation  at the moment     (  A   4 mile  Radius travel   limit  in place  )


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

I am thinking about touring Australia a bit with ds after we finish the ABD NZ trip next year. Does anyone have any itinerary recommendations? I am fine doing planning it on my own (I found AU very easy to navigate a few years ago), but would also consider using a TA to help with logistics. The only caveat is we need to end in Sydney for our flights home. Also I'd like to visit Kangaroo Island, but this isn't a deal breaker. I think we will have 5 or 6 days total (we will visit Melbourne pre-ABD).


----------



## Hannah nz

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> I am thinking about touring Australia a bit with ds after we finish the ABD NZ trip next year. Does anyone have any itinerary recommendations? I am fine doing planning it on my own (I found AU very easy to navigate a few years ago), but would also consider using a TA to help with logistics. The only caveat is we need to end in Sydney for our flights home. Also I'd like to visit Kangaroo Island, but this isn't a deal breaker. I think we will have 5 or 6 days total (we will visit Melbourne pre-ABD).


 
What I would do is fly from Auckland to Adelaide and then you can fly (Rex or Qantas link) or ferry to Kangaroo Island (2 hour drive to ferry port from Adelaide), and then fly Adelaide to Sydney to get home.  NZ and AU are still opening up so not all flight availability is loaded yet and prices are still high so keep that in mind if looking at flights now.

Personally I would not book a full tour but maybe one or two day tours if there is something outside the main city centers you want to do/see. I found the public transport and walkability great especially staying more in the CBD. One of the ferry providers to Kangaroo Island offers a good range of tours from day trips to 6 nights which might appeal? https://www.sealink.com.au/

What do you want to see & do in Australia? I would limit myself to one location with that time frame and have an overnight/few days in Sydney before you fly out.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Hannah nz said:


> What I would do is fly from Auckland to Adelaide and then you can fly (Rex or Qantas link) or ferry to Kangaroo Island (2 hour drive to ferry port from Adelaide), and then fly Adelaide to Sydney to get home.  NZ and AU are still opening up so not all flight availability is loaded yet and prices are still high so keep that in mind if looking at flights now.
> 
> Personally I would not book a full tour but maybe one or two day tours if there is something outside the main city centers you want to do/see. I found the public transport and walkability great especially staying more in the CBD. One of the ferry providers to Kangaroo Island offers a good range of tours from day trips to 6 nights which might appeal? https://www.sealink.com.au/
> 
> What do you want to see & do in Australia? I would limit myself to one location with that time frame and have an overnight/few days in Sydney before you fly out.


That is great information. I didn't realize that Adelaide was 2 hours from the ferry port. I think that we'd probably stay 2 nights there to see the natural wildlife and maybe tour some wineries. Is it worth it to spend a night in Adelaide? Or would it make more sense to just head to Sydney and spend 4 nights there? It would be nice to take ds on a day trip to the Blue Mountains, but I've been, so it's not a "must do". I would definitely like to take him to Taronga and do a 'behind the scenes' tour like I did with dd and also do the bridge climb. Those 2 activities take up an entire day. I do want to be in Sydney for the Saturday Rocks Market, so we will plan to leave on a Sunday.


----------



## Mathmagicland

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> That is great information. I didn't realize that Adelaide was 2 hours from the ferry port. I think that we'd probably stay 2 nights there to see the natural wildlife and maybe tour some wineries. Is it worth it to spend a night in Adelaide? Or would it make more sense to just head to Sydney and spend 4 nights there? It would be nice to take ds on a day trip to the Blue Mountains, but I've been, so it's not a "must do". I would definitely like to take him to Taronga and do a 'behind the scenes' tour like I did with dd and also do the bridge climb. Those 2 activities take up an entire day. I do want to be in Sydney for the Saturday Rocks Market, so we will plan to leave on a Sunday.


You might also want to research flights from Queenstown to Adelaide as that is where the AbD ends.  No sense in adding a flight leg to Auckland if you don’t need to do so.


----------



## Hannah nz

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> That is great information. I didn't realize that Adelaide was 2 hours from the ferry port. I think that we'd probably stay 2 nights there to see the natural wildlife and maybe tour some wineries. Is it worth it to spend a night in Adelaide? Or would it make more sense to just head to Sydney and spend 4 nights there? It would be nice to take ds on a day trip to the Blue Mountains, but I've been, so it's not a "must do". I would definitely like to take him to Taronga and do a 'behind the scenes' tour like I did with dd and also do the bridge climb. Those 2 activities take up an entire day. I do want to be in Sydney for the Saturday Rocks Market, so we will plan to leave on a Sunday.




Looking at the Sealink Kangaroo Island one day tours they seem to all start in the early morning (6.45am seems to be the first coach to the ferry) and returning at 10.40 at night so you may have to stay a night in Adelaide depending on flights.  I know Air NZ only has one direct flight Weds, Fri ad Sun for now, I think they used to do 5 days a week. The 1 night tours mostly offer a night on the island before doing the same itinerary as the day tours. So you get picked up at 3.30pm coach to the ferry terminal and ferry to the island. In theory you could arrive at 10.55am from Auckland and make one of these tours. This would get you 1 night Kangaroo Island plus 1 night Adelaide or 2 night Kangaroo Island. Depends how risk adverse you are with connections.

Also look at Kangaroo Island Odysseys for tours - https://www.kangarooislandodysseys.com.au/

I haven't been to Adelaide for ages but its known for food & wine plus arts and culture so stay an extra night if that interests you. Of course there are wineries and good restaurants on Kangaroo Island so that might be enough.

To me Sydney has more to do especially of children, beaches are great in summer.

Maybe check out the Kangaroo Island tours itineraries and days they are offered and see what fits best, and then go from there?


----------



## Hannah nz

Mathmagicland said:


> You might also want to research flights from Queenstown to Adelaide as that is where the AbD ends.  No sense in adding a flight leg to Auckland if you don’t need to do so.


 
I didn't realize the ABD ended in Queenstown but the only direct flight to Adelaide is via/from Auckland. You can fly Air NZ to Melbourne, Sydney, or Brisbane direct from Queenstown (some days) and then transit in Australia with Air NZ. You can also fly with JetStar (budget airline) as they fly domestically in NZ. I think they did do a direct flight to Australia from Queenstown but aren't doing it at this time.  Also look into Qantas and Virgin Australia but as they don't fly domestically in NZ it will be a code share.

Just depends if you want to book your own journey and or book all the flights in one booking. The direct light leaves at 8.20am from Auckland so you would need to go up the night before in order to check in on time.

I think the best might be to fly Queenstown - Sydney and then book a round trip flight to Adelaide from Sydney leaving early in the morning. This will give you more choice of airlines and times in Australia with domestic travel.

NZ and Australia just launched a quarantine free travel bubble starting in May so more direct flights and flight specials will be coming available soon as they see what the demand is, get more crew back working, have more planes available etc


----------



## laceltris3

More news from Tauck. I realize that the vaccination percentage they highlighted be indicative of the demographics of the bulk of their clients, but that is still astonishing. 





​

Dear Tauck Family of Friends,

An Easter reflection for me this past week, was the memory of the sparkle of light that was Andrea Bocelli singing _Amazing Grace_ on the steps of the Duomo in Milan on Easter Sunday, just one year ago. It stirred us all so deeply then, and the memories resonate strongly today. That moment still stands as a metaphor for so much. In a time of relative darkness, beauty is present. The human spirit is strong and enduring. Our “Porchlight” has been a metaphor for a beacon which welcomes people “home.” It’s been our theme for our communications to you over this past year. We will be ready when you are.

That day has arrived.

I’m thrilled to let you know that by July we plan to be running all of our USA tours. Our Worldwide Operations team has been working meticulously with our partners to plan for each individual itinerary, as they always do so thoroughly. We have recently completed a survey of our patrons holding reservations and were heartened to learn that 95% have already been vaccinated and 2% have their appointments scheduled.


----------



## TarotFox

I'm vaxxed, but, I don't feel comfortable enough to book still. At least not for things that are nonrefundable. I feel for the travel industry, but I hate that so many companies aren't relaxing their policies enough for me. I'm basically writing off 2022 since you have to book so far out.


----------



## laceltris3

TarotFox said:


> I'm vaxxed, but, I don't feel comfortable enough to book still. At least not for things that are nonrefundable. I feel for the travel industry, but I hate that so many companies aren't relaxing their policies enough for me. I'm basically writing off 2022 since you have to book so far out.



I will say that Tauck is *very* flexible with the payment terms. PIF for mine is 30 days out (for a trip that is actually going). I stayed away from a river cruise next summer, because those had non-refundable deposits, but with Tauck, up to that 30 days out I could transfer my deposit to another trip, which I have done, when I realized in November that Switzerland wasn't going to be the experience I wanted this summer. They have incredibly flexible policies for the land trips. If I don't think Switzerland will go next year, I will switch it to Alaska, probably.

(They offered to give me every penny back last summer, but offered a $500 travel bank incentive for everyone that was PIF, and $250 for those who weren't. For that treatment, I did roll the money forward, but they told you a full refund was an option (not something you had to press with a manager and maybe get). I even booked 2022 before they had pricing available and once it priced I still had 14 days to decide or get a full refund, which is the polar opposite of sitting on hold for 6 hours to get an EBD on opening day.)


----------



## Candycane83

I am surprised how many people were waiting on the phone for 6 hours in opening day for ABD especially with refund policy being so strict on deposit. I was thinking about moving my December river cruise to another destination but at this point I’m thinking of waiting to see if it just cancels to get my deposit back. I can’t see travelling anytime soon with kids not being able to be vaccinated yet. In Toronto, we’re in lockdown again with schools being moved to online after April break. I have my fingers crossed for travel next year but I guess I can’t really feel confident in booking any trips where I can’t get a refund right now. I’m planning our own Japan trip for December or March but just booking refundable hotels.
I guess that’s why Tauck is great, they seem to be very flexible with the payment terms. Like @laceltris3 I took the option of banking the funds I already paid for my cancelled March Costa Rica trip. I would probably book for 2022 once I decide where i would like to take my family, just can’t decide yet.


----------



## EllinK

What are the chances that the Dec ABD NZ trip will happen?


----------



## woodleygrrl

We had booked a Danube River Cruise for this October early last year.  However, after this past year we willnever be comfortable going on a cruise again.  So we cancelled it and moved it to a Disneyland Backstage Magic trip for next October.  We used Kevin at Dreams and we got everything we needed yesterday no problems.  This will be our first ABD and we couldn't be more jazzed.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

I booked our return flights from Sydney last night (well, the first flights, because I'm hoping to snag first class seats when the window opens -- have biz class on Air Canada currently). 

I really, really, really hope that this trip happens. Since I moved our deposit from Egypt last October to NZ in March, I do not know what my refund options would be if it were to be cancelled. But honestly I am very excited for this itinerary.


----------



## aggiedog

Ok, lets try that link for my photo book.  I usually use shutterfly but they totally redid their software and it's horrible now.  This is my first try with this website.


https://www.mixbook.com/photo-books/interests/morocco-2021-24817988?vk=mSKTBaYAvIUv6SoZtmzL


----------



## Hannah nz

EllinK said:


> What are the chances that the Dec ABD NZ trip will happen?



We are only just opening up to Australia late April and May , otherwise all people coming from elsewhere must be NZ citizens or residents and must pay for self isolation at an official facility with a negative test before travel and several during isolation. We also put a stop on passengers from India while we look at ways of managing them better as there was a flurry of cases from there.  Vaccines are rolling out to health workers now with high risk people starting in May. 

Long story short I would think no tourists will be allowed until there is no community cases in that area they are coming from. Please keep hope but don't book anything non refundable.


----------



## sayhello

Well, for a whole bunch of reasons, I've decided not to travel with ABD this year.  Chief among them is that I'm just not ready to travel internationally yet, and I'm not ready to travel domestically or internationally in a pod of one.  The combination of pods and the size of ABD's trips just aren't appealing to me this year.
So I've been looking at other companies to see what's out there to travel domestically on the "shoulder" season, and I came across a trip by Classic Journeys to Bryce, Zion, Albuquerque and Santa Fe.  Currently, there are 8 people on the trip.  The woman I spoke with thought it *might* get up to 12.  And she seemed very apologetic when she said there was a teeny-tiny chance it could get as high as 18.  I like those numbers.  I haven't been to Bryce or Zion since I was a kid, and I've actually never been to New Mexico, so I'm really looking forward to that!

I've been such a hermit for the last 14 months, so it was really hard to pull the trigger on this trip, but I finally managed to book it!  Now I'm exploring options for pre- and post-days.  Totally not sure about flights yet.  But I'm making plans!  And while it's still a little scary (and I'm not sure why -- I'm fully vaccinated!) I'm glad I did it.  I'll let you guys know how it goes with this company.  (It's the same company @aggiedog traveled with to Morocco recently.)

Sayhello


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

sayhello said:


> Well, for a whole bunch of reasons, I've decided not to travel with ABD this year.  Chief among them is that I'm just not ready to travel internationally yet, and I'm not ready to travel domestically or internationally in a pod of one.  The combination of pods and the size of ABD's trips just aren't appealing to me this year.
> So I've been looking at other companies to see what's out there to travel domestically on the "shoulder" season, and I came across a trip by Classic Journeys to Bryce, Zion, Albuquerque and Santa Fe.  Currently, there are 8 people on the trip.  The woman I spoke with thought it *might* get up to 12.  And she seemed very apologetic when she said there was a teeny-tiny chance it could get as high as 18.  I like those numbers.  I haven't been to Bryce or Zion since I was a kid, and I've actually never been to New Mexico, so I'm really looking forward to that!
> 
> I've been such a hermit for the last 14 months, so it was really hard to pull the trigger on this trip, but I finally managed to book it!  Now I'm exploring options for pre- and post-days.  Totally not sure about flights yet.  But I'm making plans!  And while it's still a little scary (and I'm not sure why -- I'm fully vaccinated!) I'm glad I did it.  I'll let you guys know how it goes with this company.  (It's the same company @aggiedog traveled with to Morocco recently.)
> 
> Sayhello


That is exciting, and I can't wait to hear all about it. Sounds like a fun trip. I can totally see why a solo trip with pods doesn't sound fun. It doesn't sound fun to me even with a party of 2 or 4.


----------



## CaliKris

sayhello said:


> Well, for a whole bunch of reasons, I've decided not to travel with ABD this year.  Chief among them is that I'm just not ready to travel internationally yet, and I'm not ready to travel domestically or internationally in a pod of one.  The combination of pods and the size of ABD's trips just aren't appealing to me this year.
> So I've been looking at other companies to see what's out there to travel domestically on the "shoulder" season, and I came across a trip by Classic Journeys to Bryce, Zion, Albuquerque and Santa Fe.  Currently, there are 8 people on the trip.  The woman I spoke with thought it *might* get up to 12.  And she seemed very apologetic when she said there was a teeny-tiny chance it could get as high as 18.  I like those numbers.  I haven't been to Bryce or Zion since I was a kid, and I've actually never been to New Mexico, so I'm really looking forward to that!
> 
> I've been such a hermit for the last 14 months, so it was really hard to pull the trigger on this trip, but I finally managed to book it!  Now I'm exploring options for pre- and post-days.  Totally not sure about flights yet.  But I'm making plans!  And while it's still a little scary (and I'm not sure why -- I'm fully vaccinated!) I'm glad I did it.  I'll let you guys know how it goes with this company.  (It's the same company @aggiedog traveled with to Morocco recently.)
> 
> Sayhello


So happy you will be back to traveling again.  That is very exciting!  I will be very interested to hear your take on Classic Journeys.  I have recevied their catalogs for years and didn't know anyone who had ever traveled with them.


----------



## lpm23

sayhello said:


> Well, for a whole bunch of reasons, I've decided not to travel with ABD this year.  Chief among them is that I'm just not ready to travel internationally yet, and I'm not ready to travel domestically or internationally in a pod of one.  The combination of pods and the size of ABD's trips just aren't appealing to me this year.
> So I've been looking at other companies to see what's out there to travel domestically on the "shoulder" season, and I came across a trip by Classic Journeys to Bryce, Zion, Albuquerque and Santa Fe.  Currently, there are 8 people on the trip.  The woman I spoke with thought it *might* get up to 12.  And she seemed very apologetic when she said there was a teeny-tiny chance it could get as high as 18.  I like those numbers.  I haven't been to Bryce or Zion since I was a kid, and I've actually never been to New Mexico, so I'm really looking forward to that!
> 
> I've been such a hermit for the last 14 months, so it was really hard to pull the trigger on this trip, but I finally managed to book it!  Now I'm exploring options for pre- and post-days.  Totally not sure about flights yet.  But I'm making plans!  And while it's still a little scary (and I'm not sure why -- I'm fully vaccinated!) I'm glad I did it.  I'll let you guys know how it goes with this company.  (It's the same company @aggiedog traveled with to Morocco recently.)
> 
> Sayhello


We just did a trip there last week with Thompson. It was great!  We flew in and out of Las Vegas and then drove to Zion. It’s about 3 hours.  The nearest airport is St George but it was much easier for us to get a direct flight and then drive a little further.
It was a great trip!


----------



## sayhello

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> That is exciting, and I can't wait to hear all about it. Sounds like a fun trip. I can totally see why a solo trip with pods doesn't sound fun. It doesn't sound fun to me even with a party of 2 or 4.


Thanks!  I will definitely let you know how it goes!


CaliKris said:


> So happy you will be back to traveling again.  That is very exciting!  I will be very interested to hear your take on Classic Journeys.  I have recevied their catalogs for years and didn't know anyone who had ever traveled with them.


Thank you!  I'm excited, too!  I actually had a hiking trip to Yosemite scheduled with them in 2007, but I tore my rotator cuff and had to cancel a week before.  The next year I discovered ABD, and I just never re-scheduled with Classic Journeys.  I'll be sure & let you guys know how they do!


lpm23 said:


> We just did a trip there last week with Thompson. It was great!  We flew in and out of Las Vegas and then drove to Zion. It’s about 3 hours.  The nearest airport is St George but it was much easier for us to get a direct flight and then drive a little further.
> It was a great trip!


I'm still trying to figure out if I'm going to fly into Las Vegas or just fly into St. George.  The tour actually starts in St. George, so it would definitely be convenient if I can work it out.   And the tour ends in Albuquerque.  One-way car rentals can cost a fortune, and I've already heard there's a rental car shortage this year.  So we'll see. 

Sayhello


----------



## MerissaAndMomLoveDis

sayhello said:


> I'm still trying to figure out if I'm going to fly into Las Vegas or just fly into St. George.  The tour actually starts in St. George, so it would definitely be convenient if I can work it out.   And the tour ends in Albuquerque.  One-way car rentals can cost a fortune, and I've already heard there's a rental car shortage this year.  So we'll see.
> 
> Sayhello



There is a shuttle from Las Vegas McCarran airport to St. George that is pretty reasonable.  Look up the St. George Shuttle.


----------



## sayhello

MerissaAndMomLoveDis said:


> There is a shuttle from Las Vegas McCarran airport to St. George that is pretty reasonable.  Look up the St. George Shuttle.


Thank you!  That's excellent news.  I will look into that. Thanks!

Sayhello


----------



## abdgeek

sayhello said:


> Well, for a whole bunch of reasons, I've decided not to travel with ABD this year.  Chief among them is that I'm just not ready to travel internationally yet, and I'm not ready to travel domestically or internationally in a pod of one.  The combination of pods and the size of ABD's trips just aren't appealing to me this year.
> So I've been looking at other companies to see what's out there to travel domestically on the "shoulder" season, and I came across a trip by Classic Journeys to Bryce, Zion, Albuquerque and Santa Fe.  Currently, there are 8 people on the trip.  The woman I spoke with thought it *might* get up to 12.  And she seemed very apologetic when she said there was a teeny-tiny chance it could get as high as 18.  I like those numbers.  I haven't been to Bryce or Zion since I was a kid, and I've actually never been to New Mexico, so I'm really looking forward to that!
> 
> I've been such a hermit for the last 14 months, so it was really hard to pull the trigger on this trip, but I finally managed to book it!  Now I'm exploring options for pre- and post-days.  Totally not sure about flights yet.  But I'm making plans!  And while it's still a little scary (and I'm not sure why -- I'm fully vaccinated!) I'm glad I did it.  I'll let you guys know how it goes with this company.  (It's the same company @aggiedog traveled with to Morocco recently.)
> 
> Sayhello



You will LOVE Bryce and Zion!  I finally booked a tour of both the last time I was in Vegas.  We did both on the same day and the tour took about 14 hours from Las Vegas.  We spent about 3 hours in each park which was plenty.  I was glad I let the tour company drive instead of driving myself because there is not much out that way.  St.George is about an 2 hours from Las Vegas, so if you decide to spend some pre-nights in Vegas there is a lot to do.  Some people in our group had difficulty with the altitude at Bryce.  They got sick once we got there(nausea, light headed, vomiting, etc.).  I didn’t have any issues, so I was glad.  There weren’t many guardrails on the trails we took at Bryce and there was still ice on the ground which made some places on the trail treacherous when I went in early April.  You could actually go right to the edge and look over which was kind of scary.

I’m with you.  If I travel at all this year, it will be in the US.  I only have a trip to Hawaii planned for the end of the year.  I’m still holding out hope that we can travel safely internationally next year and have two international trips(1 ABD and 1 non-ABD) planned.  However, if things haven’t improved I will definitely cancel them.  My sister and I were just talking the other day about how irresponsible it would be to travel to a country where the government had issued a due not travel warning.  Having worked for the federal government, she pointed out to me that it wasn’t a matter of whether you could enter the country but more so a matter of whether the embassy would come to your aid if something happened since they had already told you it wasn’t safe to travel.


----------



## Rapunzellover

I'm considering New Orleans with Tauck or maybe Hawaii.  But as a solo person, I'm unsure about island travel.  It always seems like a couple or family thing.  Any thoughts on that?


----------



## sayhello

abdgeek said:


> You will LOVE Bryce and Zion!  I finally booked a tour of both the last time I was in Vegas.  We did both on the same day and the tour took about 14 hours from Las Vegas.  We spent about 3 hours in each park which was plenty.  I was glad I let the tour company drive instead of driving myself because there is not much out that way.  St.George is about an 2 hours from Las Vegas, so if you decide to spend some pre-nights in Vegas there is a lot to do.  Some people in our group had difficulty with the altitude at Bryce.  They got sick once we got there(nausea, light headed, vomiting, etc.).  I didn’t have any issues, so I was glad.  There weren’t many guardrails on the trails we took at Bryce and there was still ice on the ground which made some places on the trail treacherous when I went in early April.  You could actually go right to the edge and look over which was kind of scary.


  Yikes!!!   That sounds scary!! I'm going in October, so hopefully ice won't be an issue yet! I am considering Vegas, as one of my best friends lives there, and I haven't seen her since before the pandemic. I need to check out flights and what works.



abdgeek said:


> I’m with you.  If I travel at all this year, it will be in the US.  I only have a trip to Hawaii planned for the end of the year.  I’m still holding out hope that we can travel safely internationally next year and have two international trips(1 ABD and 1 non-ABD) planned.  However, if things haven’t improved I will definitely cancel them.  My sister and I were just talking the other day about how irresponsible it would be to travel to a country where the government had issued a due not travel warning.  Having worked for the federal government, she pointed out to me that it wasn’t a matter of whether you could enter the country but more so a matter of whether the embassy would come to your aid if something happened since they had already told you it wasn’t safe to travel.


You are so right.  That is the issue.  More than infection rates and the risk of getting sick is the risk of getting stuck or not getting help from the consulate if needed because, as you say, they told you not to go there!!

Sayhello


----------



## sayhello

Rapunzellover said:


> I'm considering New Orleans with Tauck or maybe Hawaii.  But as a solo person, I'm unsure about island travel.  It always seems like a couple or family thing.  Any thoughts on that?


I've been to Maui multiple times as a solo.  It's a great island to do solo, as you can book day trips or half day trips to do pretty much anything you want to do while you're there.  It's not safe to snorkel alone, so I'll book snorkel trips to Lanai or Molokai.  And I also do tours to Haleakala for sunrise (AMAZING, but I'm not driving up a mountainside in the dark) and the road to Hana (crazy narrow and twisty-turny roads much better left to a professional - plus you want to be able to watch the scenery).   Let me know, I can give you all sorts of info about doing Maui solo.  And I NEVER felt out of place there as a solo!  It's not like, say, going to Sandals!

I know 3 people who are on Maui right now (and none of them know each other!)  I've been a little jealous!

Sayhello


----------



## abdgeek

Rapunzellover said:


> I'm considering New Orleans with Tauck or maybe Hawaii.  But as a solo person, I'm unsure about island travel.  It always seems like a couple or family thing.  Any thoughts on that?



I travel solo all the time (international and domestic) and have been to Hawaii solo several times.  So far, I’ve been to Oahu, Maui, and the Big Island.  While you can get around Oahu without a car by staying in Waikiki where a lot of things are within walking distance, you can also rent a car.  Parking fees can be high, so do your reseacrh.  Unfortunately, you need to rent a car on the other islands to get around.

If you’re thinking of visiting Hawaii for the first time, start on Oahu which has Honolulu which  is closest to a big city.  Each island has its own charm and tourist sites.  Most people plan to stay at least a week or more to justify the long flight.  You may try posting any questions you have on the Aulani board.  There are a lot of threads there already from people planning their Hawaii trips who have asked for recommendations.


----------



## flipflop

sayhello said:


> Well, for a whole bunch of reasons, I've decided not to travel with ABD this year.  Chief among them is that I'm just not ready to travel internationally yet, and I'm not ready to travel domestically or internationally in a pod of one.  The combination of pods and the size of ABD's trips just aren't appealing to me this year.
> So I've been looking at other companies to see what's out there to travel domestically on the "shoulder" season, and I came across a trip by Classic Journeys to Bryce, Zion, Albuquerque and Santa Fe.  Currently, there are 8 people on the trip.  The woman I spoke with thought it *might* get up to 12.  And she seemed very apologetic when she said there was a teeny-tiny chance it could get as high as 18.  I like those numbers.  I haven't been to Bryce or Zion since I was a kid, and I've actually never been to New Mexico, so I'm really looking forward to that!
> 
> I've been such a hermit for the last 14 months, so it was really hard to pull the trigger on this trip, but I finally managed to book it!  Now I'm exploring options for pre- and post-days.  Totally not sure about flights yet.  But I'm making plans!  And while it's still a little scary (and I'm not sure why -- I'm fully vaccinated!) I'm glad I did it.  I'll let you guys know how it goes with this company.  (It's the same company @aggiedog traveled with to Morocco recently.)
> 
> Sayhello


We went to Bryce and Zion as part of a Tauck trip.  Absolutely glorious. I hope you enjoy it.  The skies at night are gorgeous at Bryce (if clear).


----------



## sayhello

flipflop said:


> We went to Bryce and Zion as part of a Tauck trip.  Absolutely glorious. I hope you enjoy it.  The skies at night are gorgeous at Bryce (if clear).


Thank you!  I'm *really* looking forward to it!

Sayhello


----------



## WishUponAStarryNight

sayhello said:


> Thank you!  I'm *really* looking forward to it!
> 
> Sayhello


My plan if kiddo didn’t make his all-star team was the Classic Journeys Bryce and Zion trip. While I’m proud of my son for making the team, I’m a little bummed we won’t be able to take the vacation. I hope you have a wonderful time and I look forward to hearing all about it!


----------



## sayhello

WishUponAStarryNight said:


> My plan if kiddo didn’t make his all-star team was the Classic Journeys Bryce and Zion trip. While I’m proud of my son for making the team, I’m a little bummed we won’t be able to take the vacation. I hope you have a wonderful time and I look forward to hearing all about it!


Oh, wow. Coincidence!  I will definitely let you know how it is!

Sayhello


----------



## BluesTraveler

I want to give an update on our Backroads experience with booking/canceling/rebooking.  Last year we had 2 trips booked with Backroads.  The first was in April, and that was canceled altogether.  We had PIF before the big March 12 shutdown, and we were refunded all $$ for that trip.  The second trip was in August, to Maine.  That trip did end up going, but we elected not to go.  I think the PIF date was early June for that one, and we had not yet PIF when we made the decision not to go.  Since that trip did go, we couldn't get our deposit for it back, but we were able to have Backroads hold the deposit ($600 per person) indefinitely towards another trip.  And, Backroads added an additional $300 per person as credit to the next trip we booked.  I've just booked a trip for next summer (2022) with them, and applied that $1800 total.  (We aren't doing any group travel in 2021, we are traveling but keeping it a little more low key this year.)

They've been great to work with through the whole process.


----------



## flipflop

BluesTraveler said:


> I want to give an update on our Backroads experience with booking/canceling/rebooking.  Last year we had 2 trips booked with Backroads.  The first was in April, and that was canceled altogether.  We had PIF before the big March 12 shutdown, and we were refunded all $$ for that trip.  The second trip was in August, to Maine.  That trip did end up going, but we elected not to go.  I think the PIF date was early June for that one, and we had not yet PIF when we made the decision not to go.  Since that trip did go, we couldn't get our deposit for it back, but we were able to have Backroads hold the deposit ($600 per person) indefinitely towards another trip.  And, Backroads added an additional $300 per person as credit to the next trip we booked.  I've just booked a trip for next summer (2022) with them, and applied that $1800 total.  (We aren't doing any group travel in 2021, we are traveling but keeping it a little more low key this year.)
> 
> They've been great to work with through the whole process.


We had the same experience with a backroads deposit for a trip last summer that didn't run and wasn't PIF.  $600 plus $300 for next trip.  Very easy to work with.


----------



## sayhello

BluesTraveler said:


> I want to give an update on our Backroads experience with booking/canceling/rebooking.  Last year we had 2 trips booked with Backroads.  The first was in April, and that was canceled altogether.  We had PIF before the big March 12 shutdown, and we were refunded all $$ for that trip.  The second trip was in August, to Maine.  That trip did end up going, but we elected not to go.  I think the PIF date was early June for that one, and we had not yet PIF when we made the decision not to go.  Since that trip did go, we couldn't get our deposit for it back, but we were able to have Backroads hold the deposit ($600 per person) indefinitely towards another trip.  And, Backroads added an additional $300 per person as credit to the next trip we booked.  I've just booked a trip for next summer (2022) with them, and applied that $1800 total.  (We aren't doing any group travel in 2021, we are traveling but keeping it a little more low key this year.)
> 
> They've been great to work with through the whole process.





flipflop said:


> We had the same experience with a backroads deposit for a trip last summer that didn't run and wasn't PIF.  $600 plus $300 for next trip.  Very easy to work with.


Good to know.  I've been thinking about going back to Backroads, also.  I kind of hadn't been looking at them for a while, because their trips are usually pretty short, but I'm reconsidering that seeing how easy they've been for you to work with.

Sayhello


----------



## laceltris3

We received our documents for our upcoming TB trip. I am still waiting to see if they send the backpacks and little presents for the kids as they have in the past. Documents were email only, though we last traveled with them in 2018, so I don't know if that was a pre-pandemic change. (I do really prefer receiving the little spiral bound version. It stays so much nicer in my bag than the folded papers I slide into a book for safekeeping). 

The only downside is that all of the information prior said that the COVID test for non-vaccinated people (for us the kids, who cannot be fully vaccinated by early June) was required within 5 days of departure. Since we are starting in a National Park, the requirement is 72 hours before departure, which blows up my established plans, but is something I will just have to deal with. 

No mention that reflects the updated CDC guidance on masking for vaccinated people.


----------



## Rapunzellover

laceltris3 said:


> The only downside is that all of the information prior said that the COVID test for non-vaccinated people (for us the kids, who cannot be fully vaccinated by early June) was required within 5 days of departure. Since we are starting in a National Park, the requirement is 72 hours before departure, which blows up my established plans, but is something I will just have to deal with.
> 
> No mention that reflects the updated CDC guidance on masking for vaccinated people.



Double check with a Tauck representative.  I'm considering Tauck for New Orleans in the Fall, and I saw their policies changed to not needing a test if vaccinated,  like ABD changed to recently.   You may not need a test.

Also, I found their app to be best for the itinerary when I traveled with them in 2019.


----------



## laceltris3

Rapunzellover said:


> Double check with a Tauck representative.  I'm considering Tauck for New Orleans in the Fall, and I saw their policies changed to not needing a test if vaccinated,  like ABD changed to recently.   You may not need a test.
> 
> Also, I found their app to be best for the itinerary when I traveled with them in 2019.


Yes, my husband and I don't need a test, but the two of my kids who are now eligible for the vaccine will not be able to be "fully" vaccinated before the trip, and my youngest is not yet able to be vaccinated. They specifically note you need a test for all children under 16 in all circumstances.


----------



## AquaDame

This is likely a long shot, but my husband and I have booked a live aboard for the Galapagos in January and I'm considering staying on in San Cristobal for a couple of days to try to visit Espanola as well (I had been thinking Floreana but that would require us to ferry to Santa Cruz as it is too far). Any chance someone here also booked more on their own for the Galapagos and loved their tour provider..?


----------



## Jess_S

We didn't go to the Galapagos, but we did just come back from an on-your-own trip in Ecuador. I am happy to share a list of tour companies I used, all of whom were excellent. They all do the Galapagos. (Apparently it is pretty rare to visit Ecuador without going there, so it's the bread and butter of most of the providers there).


----------



## Rapunzellover

I rebooked the Tauck New Orleans trip I canceled earlier this year.  I'm going in October instead of September though.  I'm vaxxed and thinking things will hopefully be good in October that the trip will run pretty normally.

Two questions for those who know:  
1.  Should the weather in mid October be okay in NOLA?  I'm worried about hurricanes.
2.  Any recommendations for must dos?  Or must eats (looking forward to the food)?


----------



## AquaDame

Jess_S said:


> We didn't go to the Galapagos, but we did just come back from an on-your-own trip in Ecuador. I am happy to share a list of tour companies I used, all of whom were excellent. They all do the Galapagos. (Apparently it is pretty rare to visit Ecuador without going there, so it's the bread and butter of most of the providers there).



I would love any and all advice you're willing to pass my way! We're booked on the Letty with Ecoventura which will be the bulk of our time on the islands but I still have other details to figure out.


----------



## Jess_S

These are the tour companies we used in order of preference (although I would recommend all of them without reservation). 

1. Ecuador Best Tours. We booked through Luis, who was also our guide for two day tours. Their website has a contact form for questions. Ecuadorbesttours.com. 

2. Metropolitan Touring. They own and operate several properties in Ecuador, including Finch Bay in the Galapagos. I booked through Felipe. Customer service at their hotels was exceptional. (We stayed at Casa Gangotena and Mashpi Lodge). This was a pricey option, but cheaper than ABD.

3.Happy Gringo. We used Eva Merx to book a day tour. She then coordinated with one of their guides and sent us the booking information. The price for the tour did not include attraction admission, unlike the other tour companies.

As with other places we have traveled in Latin America, we found that the response times working with companies in Ecuador were slower than in the US. It can take up to 48 hours to hear back on an email. (I will say that all of the providers responded immediately when I had questions about the covid state of emergency declared just before our trip).

Ecuador is a beautiful country. I am sure you will have an amazing trip. Even with covid, my family rated Ecuador as our top trip.


----------



## AquaDame

Jess_S said:


> These are the tour companies we used in order of preference (although I would recommend all of them without reservation).
> 
> 1. Ecuador Best Tours. We booked through Luis, who was also our guide for two day tours. Their website has a contact form for questions. Ecuadorbesttours.com.
> 
> 2. Metropolitan Touring. They own and operate several properties in Ecuador, including Finch Bay in the Galapagos. I booked through Felipe. Customer service at their hotels was exceptional. (We stayed at Casa Gangotena and Mashpi Lodge). This was a pricey option, but cheaper than ABD.
> 
> 3.Happy Gringo. We used Eva Merx to book a day tour. She then coordinated with one of their guides and sent us the booking information. The price for the tour did not include attraction admission, unlike the other tour companies.
> 
> As with other places we have traveled in Latin America, we found that the response times working with companies in Ecuador were slower than in the US. It can take up to 48 hours to hear back on an email. (I will say that all of the providers responded immediately when I had questions about the covid state of emergency declared just before our trip).
> 
> Ecuador is a beautiful country. I am sure you will have an amazing trip. Even with covid, my family rated Ecuador as our top trip.



I'll be sure to check each of these out; thank you very much for taking time to type it all out!


----------



## Jess_S

AquaDame said:


> I'll be sure to check each of these out; thank you very much for taking time to type it all out!


No problem at all. I would love to hear about your Galapagos trip when you get back. Based upon the experience we had on the mainland, we are planning to do the Galapagos when my son is a teen (and hopefully comfortable snorkeling).


----------



## laceltris3

We are currently on the first Tauck Bridges Cowboy Country trip of the season. It is amazing. The national parks are thinly staffed since they cannot run the staff dormitories as they have normally. All indications are that this season will bring the most visitors ever.

Some notes on the trip: I would estimate that more than 95% of the people we encounter are unmasked. Since most schools were not out, though, I think the demographics are skewing toward highly vaccinated older groups for now. We were informed that the rule was that you had to wear a mask while getting on and off the bus, but that while you were seated vaccinated people could take them off, but in practice there are only 2 kids on the trip of 32 that mask semi-regularly. No “pods” enforced and the teens are sitting in the back together as normal. To be honest, except for limited food options and the nice restaurant at Old Faithful being takeout only, this trip is almost exactly like pre-COVID normal. At the lodge in the Grand Tetons we were told the restaurant was staffed at one fourth the normal personnel, and since we couldn’t get in until after 9 for dinner on our pre night, we ended up eating cheese sticks from the gift shop that night. 

For our guide, this is the first time he has worked since Fall 2019, and on our flight here for 3 of our flight attendants, it was their first flight back from furlough. I have been so missing travel over the past year and a half, but it was a reminder that our hardship was so minimal compared with others,


----------



## laceltris3

To expand a bit on how my TB experience was different from ABD:

1. The emails said that vaccination or negative PCR within 72 hours of departure was required, and you had to sign a pledge to that effect, but it was on the honor system. I brought all of our documentation and was never asked to show it.

2. The first night the guide said he had to tell us you had to wear masks walking on and off the bus, but could go maskless in your seat if vaccinated. The bus driver the next morning flat out said masks were voluntary and only 2 kids wore masks for more than a couple days.  No one seemed to be bothered. Teens sat in the back as normal.

3. While there were changes to meals due to COVID, like the nice restaurant at the Snow Lodge being takeout only, we still had dinners that were buffet or where we had arranged tables to seat groups of 8. There was no such thing as travel pods. Our dinner tables had no overlap with our river rafting group, etc. 

4. No temp taking or daily screening or anything like that. people were just expected to behave and respond appropriately.

5. I went 5 full days without ever putting on a mask, and it seemed to be 95% like the pre-COVID experience. I think the one time masks were required was in the vans to rafting on the Snake River. The way the current ABD was described was how I understood the Winter in Yellowstone trips that went were… 6 months ago. I don’t think the ABD experience that was described is one that I would desire, and I don’t think it was really in keeping with the current reality and and guidance.

I think Tauck had the luxury of having done the survey and knowing that 98% of their patrons were vaccinated. There were maybe 4 kids out of 32 people too young to be vaccinated, and that people just assumed the risk, knowing that everyone was vaccinated or negative and were comfortable with the risk.


----------



## scottmel

Anyone have experience with a trip like the Grand European ABD trip with ANOTHER company? I love the combination of England/ITaly/France all in one trip. It satisfies everyone in my family! My problem is it is offered in July and onward. I need to operate around a school schedule and need April May which also AVOIDS the heat of July! Any info much appreciate....THANKS!


----------



## Rapunzellover

I went late May/Early June to Italy and fyi, it was still hot.  High 90s/triple digits.  Just sayin'


----------



## Raya

Does anyone have experience with Kensington in Egypt (or in general, I guess)? 

I'm not a fan of how ABD handled their cancellations during COVID, so I'm looking at other options. My first thought was to do the Ama River Cruise - Ama was great to us on our ABD trip. But I'm worried that tour doesn't have as much content. So, Kensington is the next one I'm considering. Any thoughts?

https://www.kensingtontours.com/travels/tours/egyptb/1041668


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Raya said:


> Does anyone have experience with Kensington in Egypt (or in general, I guess)?
> 
> I'm not a fan of how ABD handled their cancellations during COVID, so I'm looking at other options. My first thought was to do the Ama River Cruise - Ama was great to us on our ABD trip. But I'm worried that tour doesn't have as much content. So, Kensington is the next one I'm considering. Any thoughts?
> 
> https://www.kensingtontours.com/travels/tours/egyptb/1041668


I have never used them, but I know people that have (for many trips) and love them. I would definitely consider them for a trip in the future.


----------



## flipflop

Raya said:


> Does anyone have experience with Kensington in Egypt (or in general, I guess)?
> 
> I'm not a fan of how ABD handled their cancellations during COVID, so I'm looking at other options. My first thought was to do the Ama River Cruise - Ama was great to us on our ABD trip. But I'm worried that tour doesn't have as much content. So, Kensington is the next one I'm considering. Any thoughts?
> 
> https://www.kensingtontours.com/travels/tours/egyptb/1041668


Although we haven't used Kensington -- we are doing a very similar trip to this itinerary with A&K in 2022.  We have friends who did the trip through them and that's how we landed on that group.


----------



## Rapunzellover

I would just like to say, again, how awesome Tauck has been.  I teach, and budgeted my summer income to the trip I have scheduled.  But a class got canceled and I am lacking the vacation funds until I get my regular semester pay.  They've agreed to postpone my final payment date 11 days.  And I can still cancel with no penalty except my deposit going to dreamsaver.  

They are super easy to deal with, and I think after my Portugal ABD scheduled next year, I'm done with Disney, unless it's the DL adventure.


----------



## vakamalua

Our November Disneyland/So Cal ABD was cancelled.  That was the one & only trip we were ever interested in taking with ABD; we won't be rebooking since the price has doubled since we originally booked.  And all of the comments I have read here during COVID have indicated the lack of ABD's customer service culture.  

We don't do tours very often but, in the past (pre-COVID), we have done Family Australia and regular Jordan & Egypt with A&K as well as Tauck's Japan & Danube River Cruise (regular with our teenager).  I highly recommend both A&K and Tauck--the itineraries, company and local guides, accommodations, customer service are top of the line.  I would probably give the edge to A&K for their flexibility and amazing personal attention.  I wouldn't dream of traveling in Egypt with ABD...


----------



## flipflop

vakamalua said:


> Our November Disneyland/So Cal ABD was cancelled.  That was the one & only trip we were ever interested in taking with ABD; we won't be rebooking since the price has doubled since we originally booked.  And all of the comments I have read here during COVID have indicated the lack of ABD's customer service culture.
> 
> We don't do tours very often but, in the past (pre-COVID), we have done Family Australia and regular Jordan & Egypt with A&K as well as Tauck's Japan & Danube River Cruise (regular with our teenager).  I highly recommend both A&K and Tauck--the itineraries, company and local guides, accommodations, customer service are top of the line.  I would probably give the edge to A&K for their flexibility and amazing personal attention.  I wouldn't dream of traveling in Egypt with ABD...


I'd love to hear more about Egypt with A&K - we have that booked for 2022. We haven't traveled with them before.  Previously ABD or Tauck.


----------



## vakamalua

flipflop said:


> I'd love to hear more about Egypt with A&K - we have that booked for 2022. We haven't traveled with them before.  Previously ABD or Tauck.



We combined our A&K trip to Egypt with Jordan.  It wasn't a family trip--limited to 12 adults.

If you have any Qs, you can PM me.


----------



## ngl

River cruise question - Trying to stay positive re next summer travel to Europe. Will have 13 & 11 year olds by then and thinking about River cruises - seems like active options during day like biking, hiking, etc for those. We've used Tauck Bridges and Off the Beaten Path previously and looking into both Tauck Bridges and ABD Rhine River cruises. Anyone have feedback on either? Itinerary very similar (of course!) and price is nearly the same with the exception that I know Tauck includes all gratuities. Curious if anyone has information comparing the two ships (ABD v. Tauck) and thoughts in general? Thanks in advance!


----------



## sayhello

ngl said:


> River cruise question - Trying to stay positive re next summer travel to Europe. Will have 13 & 11 year olds by then and thinking about River cruises - seems like active options during day like biking, hiking, etc for those. We've used Tauck Bridges and Off the Beaten Path previously and looking into both Tauck Bridges and ABD Rhine River cruises. Anyone have feedback on either? Itinerary very similar (of course!) and price is nearly the same with the exception that I know Tauck includes all gratuities. Curious if anyone has information comparing the two ships (ABD v. Tauck) and thoughts in general? Thanks in advance!


Just to let you know, the ABD River Cruises include all gratuities, also, including for the Adventure Guides.

Sayhello


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

ngl said:


> River cruise question - Trying to stay positive re next summer travel to Europe. Will have 13 & 11 year olds by then and thinking about River cruises - seems like active options during day like biking, hiking, etc for those. We've used Tauck Bridges and Off the Beaten Path previously and looking into both Tauck Bridges and ABD Rhine River cruises. Anyone have feedback on either? Itinerary very similar (of course!) and price is nearly the same with the exception that I know Tauck includes all gratuities. Curious if anyone has information comparing the two ships (ABD v. Tauck) and thoughts in general? Thanks in advance!


My kids still reminisce about the ABD Rhine River cruise. We had a very good time and there were several teenagers around the same age as my dd. We were on the AMAKristina and it was a very, very nice ship. I would recommend ABD Rhine River cruise on an AMA ship.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

For those that remember me talking about my European Christmas Market trip with ds to Prague, Bratislava, Vienna, Salzburg and Munich, I have had to modify my trip. Currently people entering Austria who have visited Prague need to isolate for 10 days, so I made the decision to modify our flights to fly directly into Vienna. This cuts the trip short by 2 countries and 3 days, however I only have to worry about entry requirements to 3 countries (I am counting our return to Canada). I noticed that Germany tightened their borders today for US travellers, not sure if Canada is going to follow.  
I have another worry -- I am fully vaccinated, but I received mixed doses (which is okay in Canada). If we don't get national vaccine passports before the trip (supposed to have them by the fall) I don't know if my fully immunized status will be recognized in Europe. I am perfectly okay if this trip gets postponed until 2022, depending on how the current situation plays out.


----------



## SirDuff

*WDW*Groupie* said:


> For those that remember me talking about my European Christmas Market trip with ds to Prague, Bratislava, Vienna, Salzburg and Munich, I have had to modify my trip. Currently people entering Austria who have visited Prague need to isolate for 10 days, so I made the decision to modify our flights to fly directly into Vienna. This cuts the trip short by 2 countries and 3 days, however I only have to worry about entry requirements to 3 countries (I am counting our return to Canada). I noticed that Germany tightened their borders today for US travellers, not sure if Canada is going to follow.
> I have another worry -- I am fully vaccinated, but I received mixed doses (which is okay in Canada). If we don't get national vaccine passports before the trip (supposed to have them by the fall) I don't know if my fully immunized status will be recognized in Europe. I am perfectly okay if this trip gets postponed until 2022, depending on how the current situation plays out.



I would think Germany (at least) would be okay.  Merkel herself did a mixed vaccine (AstraZeneca and Moderna) and promoted it.


----------



## Rapunzellover

So, I just transferred my October Tauck New Orleans reservation to April...Spring Break at my teaching job.  Delta cases in NOLA are soooo high right now.  Maybe if it gets closer and things are better I'll try and switch back to October.   But right now, it's too sketchy.  But the new reservation in April is $1000 more so we'll see if I even do it.  Cost was high enough at $1000 less.  I may just try to replicate Tauck's itinerary on my own.


----------



## laceltris3

I just pulled the plug on Europe next summer. We were booked for the TB Alpine Adventure, but I am just not getting the vibe that Switzerland will be the experience we want. So we are doing the TB Alaska next year instead. This will be the second year in a row that I cancelled this trip, but Yellowstone this summer was so amazing. I felt I had to make the decision now, because 3/4 of the June Alaska trips were already sold out. 

While I was on the call, I also put down a deposit for the Siene river cruise for 2023. It's not priced yet, but we need a suite since we are a family of 5, and those always sell out before they price it. It should price in late February or early March and I will have 14 days to get my deposit refunded when that happens. At least that is a single country trip, where I can get direct flights from my home airport with several carriers.


----------



## sayhello

laceltris3 said:


> I just pulled the plug on Europe next summer. We were booked for the TB Alpine Adventure, but I am just not getting the vibe that Switzerland will be the experience we want. So we are doing the TB Alaska next year instead. This will be the second year in a row that I cancelled this trip, but Yellowstone this summer was so amazing. I felt I had to make the decision now, because 3/4 of the June Alaska trips were already sold out.
> 
> While I was on the call, I also put down a deposit for the Siene river cruise for 2023. It's not priced yet, but we need a suite since we are a family of 5, and those always sell out before they price it. It should price in late February or early March and I will have 14 days to get my deposit refunded when that happens. At least that is a single country trip, where I can get direct flights from my home airport with several carriers.


You will LOVE Alaska!!  It's an amazing place, and I was seriously considering going there again this summer, but all the trips were sold out.  

I had a Seine River cruise scheduled with ABD for May 2020.  Still sad it was cancelled.  It looks like an amazing place, and I'm sure I'll reschedule it some day.

Sayhello


----------



## Rapunzellover

I am still reserved for Portugal with ABD in May 2022.  But I'm unsure things will be well enough.  Or if it will be the experience I want.  

I've got NOLA with Tauck scheduled for Easter, which actually makes me happier than the October ressie I originally had.  It's a small group, so I'll feel better re: Covid, hopefully.  

But Summer next year....IDK if international travel is in the cards.  Anybody got any recommendations for domestic stuff?  

I don't want outdoorsy national park stuff.  I'm thinking DC, maybe?  Any other thoughts?


----------



## sayhello

Rapunzellover said:


> I am still reserved for Portugal with ABD in May 2022.  But I'm unsure things will be well enough.  Or if it will be the experience I want.
> 
> I've got NOLA with Tauck scheduled for Easter, which actually makes me happier than the October ressie I originally had.  It's a small group, so I'll feel better re: Covid, hopefully.
> 
> But Summer next year....IDK if international travel is in the cards.  Anybody got any recommendations for domestic stuff?
> 
> I don't want outdoorsy national park stuff.  I'm thinking DC, maybe?  Any other thoughts?


Personally, I *LOVE* Chicago.  Loads of great museums there.  Very cool cityscape (they have wonderful architectural tour river cruises).  Very walkable.  And Nando's Peri-Peri Chicken!  Plus a really great theatre scene!

Sayhello


----------



## Marthasor

Rapunzellover said:


> I am still reserved for Portugal with ABD in May 2022.  But I'm unsure things will be well enough.  Or if it will be the experience I want.
> 
> I've got NOLA with Tauck scheduled for Easter, which actually makes me happier than the October ressie I originally had.  It's a small group, so I'll feel better re: Covid, hopefully.
> 
> But Summer next year....IDK if international travel is in the cards.  Anybody got any recommendations for domestic stuff?
> 
> I don't want outdoorsy national park stuff.  I'm thinking DC, maybe?  Any other thoughts?



DC is awesome.  You could pair that with a trip into VA to see Mount Vernon and Monticello if interested.  Or head up to Philly as well.  We spent a month in Cape Ann, MA this summer - Gloucester, Salem, Rockport area - if you like beaches and seafood, it’s really nice.  Boston was fun too and easy to reach from that area.


----------



## Grifdog22

Marthasor said:


> DC is awesome.  You could pair that with a trip into VA to see Mount Vernon and Monticello if interested.  Or head up to Philly as well.  We spent a month in Cape Ann, MA this summer - Gloucester, Salem, Rockport area - if you like beaches and seafood, it’s really nice.  Boston was fun too and easy to reach from that area.


The Smithsonian museums alone in the DC area could take a week, especially if you add the Udvar Huzey museum they have at Dulles airport.  If you go, don't miss the "rooftop exhibits" known as the observation tower as the planes take off and land just  over your head. The Smithsonian National Zoo is also impressive.  We have their field breeding and work farms out in Rappahannock County Virginia - but it's outdoorsy national park stuff.   DC also has the Spy museum and holocaust museum worth seeing.  The Capitol, if not under attack, is impressive.  I believe Biden has restarted the white house tours as well.  Make sure to walk two blocks from the Capitol to see the amazing Amtrak station, fully restored and most impressive. You can also arrange tours of the Treasury and Library of Congress. (COVID changes are constant so nothing is for sure...except the Amtrak station which is always open). City of Alexandria is nearby which is fun as well.  The DC Metro is easy to get around DC.


----------



## laceltris3

Santa Fe/Taos/Los Alamos in New Mexico is nice. Not super outdoorsy, but laid back with some interesting local culture.


----------



## Rapunzellover

laceltris3 said:


> Santa Fe/Taos/Los Alamos in New Mexico is nice. Not super outdoorsy, but laid back with some interesting local culture.



This is another possibility.   When I rescheduled Tauck, I was gonna see if I could do the tour @sayhello is doing with Classic Journeys.  For this year sometime.  But my school bosses have said that even though I'm teaching online, I have to be available within 4 hours to come down during school days...if asked.  They were allowing vacations for online instructors last fall and spring but now it's not allowed anymore, since my campus is technically open again.  

I didn't hear about the change until I told a colleague of my canceled plans for NOLA in October.   So it's a good thing I rescheduled or I would have been in trouble....my boss would've seen me post on FB cause I didn't think it was against the rules.

I want to find a great tour package to do domestically and it is hard to coordinate timings with my school schedule.


----------



## Rapunzellover

sayhello said:


> Personally, I *LOVE* Chicago.  Loads of great museums there.  Very cool cityscape (they have wonderful architectural tour river cruises).  Very walkable.  And Nando's Peri-Peri Chicken!  Plus a really great theatre scene!
> 
> Sayhello



It's a bucket list item to see Chicago in Chicago.  I love theater!  Chicago is definitely on my list.  But I hate their airport!


----------



## Grifdog22

Rapunzellover said:


> It's a bucket list item to see Chicago in Chicago.  I love theater!  Chicago is definitely on my list.  But I hate their airport!


We love Chicago.  We'll take the Amtrak sleeper, either the Capitol Limited or the Cardinal with no fuss, muss and arrive in the central city. Their transit goes where we want to go, or an uber will do.  We are going next weekend - Capitol limited overnight in a bedroom, to enjoy the foliage starting to turn, arrive and drop our bags in the Amtrak lounge for safekeeping while we use our city pass and tour the top of Willis tower and "The ledge" a glass enclosure at the top that hangs off the tower.  We'll then walk two blocks for deep dish pizza at Giordanos, and across the street is one of the Frank Lloyd Wright buildings we will tour.  Swing back to the station for the bags, and pop over to the Blackstone Hotel (yes, the smoke filled rooms where empires were built) (It's a Marriott Autograph hotel, a block off the lake). That afternoon we will be at the Art Institute museum (amazing Tiffany glass, Monet, etc. they say). Late afternoon is the She'd aquarium, only about 4 blocks from the hotel, from there we will wander to find dinner.  We love the Blackstone for a hotel, so we'll hang there for the late evening.  Breakfast is at the Yolk, and then the Metra to the Museum Science and Industry. Can't wait to go in the sub!  That afternoon is the field museum to play with dinos. Swing by the Blackstone to retrieve bags and Back to Union station.  On the Cardinal it is a longer trip, but we will hit the highlands with early fall foliage and travel along the new river gorge with high water and spectacular views. We'll cross the Alleghenies, travel by (and s short stop) at the Greenbrier, then on to Charlottesville, Culpeper (that's pronounced Cull pep ah) and Manassas.  Then back to the Rappahannock County farm!  I'd still rather by sailing with Say Hello down the Rhone in France, but this will do as an overdue substitute.


----------



## Rapunzellover

@Grifdog22- I don't think Amtrak would be so easy from California.   I might try Amtrak to SF from the Central Valley, where I live.


----------



## sayhello

Rapunzellover said:


> It's a bucket list item to see Chicago in Chicago.  I love theater!  Chicago is definitely on my list.  But I hate their airport!


Which airport?  I tend to fly to Midway if I can and just do the train into town.  O'Hare *can* be a mess.  But I'll fly into either to get some time in Chicago!


Rapunzellover said:


> @Grifdog22- I don't think Amtrak would be so easy from California.   I might try Amtrak to SF from the Central Valley, where I live.


With the caveat that *who knows* in a COVID-19 world, it seems it *is* possible to get to Chicago from, say, Fresno, but it would require traveling to Sacramento, then from there catching the California Zephyr to Chicago.  It would probably take you a couple of days at least, but would definitely be a cool way to get to Chicago if you get a bedroom.  It's supposed to be a beautiful route.  (The California Zephyr would be what you would take to get from Sacramento to San Francisco/Emeryville if you went that direction.)  I've always meant to travel more by train.  I'm hoping to do that soon.  It would be MUCH easier if Amtrak came through Columbus...


Grifdog22 said:


> We love Chicago.  We'll take the Amtrak sleeper, either the Capitol Limited or the Cardinal with no fuss, muss and arrive in the central city. Their transit goes where we want to go, or an uber will do.  We are going next weekend - Capitol limited overnight in a bedroom, to enjoy the foliage starting to turn, arrive and drop our bags in the Amtrak lounge for safekeeping while we use our city pass and tour the top of Willis tower and "The ledge" a glass enclosure at the top that hangs off the tower.  We'll then walk two blocks for deep dish pizza at Giordanos, and across the street is one of the Frank Lloyd Wright buildings we will tour.  Swing back to the station for the bags, and pop over to the Blackstone Hotel (yes, the smoke filled rooms where empires were built) (It's a Marriott Autograph hotel, a block off the lake). That afternoon we will be at the Art Institute museum (amazing Tiffany glass, Monet, etc. they say). Late afternoon is the She'd aquarium, only about 4 blocks from the hotel, from there we will wander to find dinner.  We love the Blackstone for a hotel, so we'll hang there for the late evening.  Breakfast is at the Yolk, and then the Metra to the Museum Science and Industry. Can't wait to go in the sub!  That afternoon is the field museum to play with dinos. Swing by the Blackstone to retrieve bags and Back to Union station.  On the Cardinal it is a longer trip, but we will hit the highlands with early fall foliage and travel along the new river gorge with high water and spectacular views. We'll cross the Alleghenies, travel by (and s short stop) at the Greenbrier, then on to Charlottesville, Culpeper (that's pronounced Cull pep ah) and Manassas.  Then back to the Rappahannock County farm!  I'd still rather by sailing with Say Hello down the Rhone in France, but this will do as an overdue substitute.


This sounds wonderful!  I agree, I'd rather you were sailing down the Rhone with me, too, but that's just going to have to be postponed for a while, it seems.  I've still not given up on that trip for some day!

Sayhello


----------



## Rapunzellover

sayhello said:


> Which airport?  I tend to fly to Midway if I can and just do the train into town.  O'Hare *can* be a mess.  But I'll fly into either to get some time in Chicago!
> With the caveat that *who knows* in a COVID-19 world, it seems it *is* possible to get to Chicago from, say, Fresno, but it would require traveling to Sacramento, then from there catching the California Zephyr to Chicago.  It would probably take you a couple of days at least, but would definitely be a cool way to get to Chicago if you get a bedroom.  It's supposed to be a beautiful route.  (The California Zephyr would be what you would take to get from Sacramento to San Francisco/Emeryville if you went that direction.)  I've always meant to travel more by train.  I'm hoping to do that soon.  It would be MUCH easier if Amtrak came through Columbus...
> 
> Sayhello



I was talking O'Hare.  I've never had a good experience there.  But Midway could work maybe.

I'm 1 .5 hours north of Fresno and 2 hours South of Sacramento.  It's a terrible area for Amtrak.


----------



## sayhello

Rapunzellover said:


> I'm 1 .5 hours north of Fresno and 2 hours South of Sacramento.  It's a terrible area for Amtrak.


I'm 1.45 hours North of Cincinnati and  2.25 hours South of Cleveland.  So I am in an equally bad area for Amtrak.  

Sayhello


----------



## Grifdog22

sayhello said:


> I'm 1.45 hours North of Cincinnati and  2.25 hours South of Cleveland.  So I am in an equally bad area for Amtrak.
> 
> Sayhello


We are two hours from Dulles airport, an hour from two Amtrak stops and 45 minutes from a third over in West Virginia.  Regrettably we are ten minutes from the confluence of two major interstates.  Our farm however is far from all of this, except one Amtrak stop at Culpeper. The farm is surrounded by Shenandoah National Park with the clear dark skies of Rappahannock County. The sounds are those of thunderheads, peepers in the spring, Buck deer snorting in the fall, the constant soft splashing of SprucePine headwaters creek,the wind, and my wife's voice telling me to get back to the chore list.


----------



## sayhello

Grifdog22 said:


> We are two hours from Dulles airport, an hour from two Amtrak stops and 45 minutes from a third over in West Virginia.  Regrettably we are ten minutes from the confluence of two major interstates.  Our farm however is far from all of this, except one Amtrak stop at Culpeper. The farm is surrounded by Shenandoah National Park with the clear dark skies of Rappahannock County. The sounds are those of thunderheads, peepers in the spring, Buck deer snorting in the fall, the constant soft splashing of SprucePine headwaters creek,the wind, and my wife's voice telling me to get back to the chore list.


Sounds enchanting!   

Truth is, now that I'm retired and don't have to worry about how many days it takes me to get to/from places (because I'd have to get back to work) I'm far more likely to drive up to Cleveland, catch the train, and then, on the way home, plan to spend the night in Cleveland before heading back home.  I do not like the idea of long days traveling, and then having to drive home right afterwards (I'm not a fan of driving, period).  It can all be a part of the experience now, like it is in Europe.   

Sayhello


----------



## kaseyC

I love the train.  As kids in the 70's that how we would travel from Montana to visit relatives in the midwest and south.  A few years ago, I took my 2 youngest girls on Amtrak from Milwaukee to Seattle on the Empire Builder.  It was a fantastic trip that with gorgeous scenery.  We booked a Family bedroom which gave the 3 of us plenty of room to spread out.  It was pretty cool to see my teens unplug and enjoy sitting by the window watching the beautiful scenery.  The Sleeper rooms are great because all meals are included as well as nice turn down service.   We spent 4 days in Seattle and then we flew to Anaheim and spent a couple of days at the Grand Californian, went to Disneyland and explored LA.  We then took Amtraks Pacific Surfliner to San Diego for a few days before flying back to Chicago.  Still one of our favorite trips.


----------



## Mathmagicland

Sharing as I’ve not seen this company mentioned recently.  I have no experience with them so can’t speak to if they are good or bad, maybe some others on here can weigh in if people are interested.

I got a catalog from Smithsonian Journeys, and a few things caught my eye to share them here - they have a new partnership with Ponant, which is the same company AbD has joined with for expedition cruises to Galapagos and Antarctica; they seem to have mostly small group sizes of 12-24 people; and they offer private custom tours called Tailor-Made Journeys which seem at first look to offer more options and customization than the AbD private adventures.  The catalog says they offer 150 different tours, and some include airfare.  

https://www.smithsonianjourneys.org/


----------



## xiphoid76

Kensington has been awesome so far on our Egypt trip!  Would highly recommend. This is a great time to travel internationally if you are able to jump thru the Covid restrictions. Low crowds and the tourism sector could really use a financial boost in many countries. I am tired of domestic USA travel.  Love the country but we have done it a lot over the past year. We are going to Ukraine and the UAE in the next few months.


----------



## Praise2Him

Has anyone used Perillo Tours for  Italy? Looking at going next summer.


----------



## AquaDame

We ended up booking direct with AMA Waterways for a Christmas market cruise. We didn't want to risk some markets being shut (many of them do not stay open through Christmas) and they only seem to run this one the week between Christmas/New Years. It would have been nice to book with ABD, and I'm sad Dreams doesn't book direct either as I HAD to use an agent. So instead they hooked me up with a random independent TA with Avoya.


----------



## scottmel

Praise2Him said:


> Has anyone used Perillo Tours for  Italy? Looking at going next summer.



I am looking at Italy too and never heard of this group. Looks interesting! I looked at Wendy Perin with the ITaly consultant but you are totally on your own which maybe is ok. Tauck too...What led you to this group if I can ask?


----------



## Birdie dog

I want to book a Christmas market cruise with my daughter and granddaughter. Due to our jobs, we can't do Christmas week, and it looks like most river cruises won't allow my granddaughter so we're booking Tauck and hoping there will be other children aboard.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Birdie dog said:


> I want to book a Christmas market cruise with my daughter and granddaughter. Due to our jobs, we can't do Christmas week, and it looks like most river cruises won't allow my granddaughter so we're booking Tauck and hoping there will be other children aboard.


I'm doing a solo Christmas market trip with my ds. We were supposed to go to Prague, Bratislava, Vienna, Salzburg and Munich. Due to the current situation and testing requirements in Prague, I have cut out the first 2 destinations. I am getting excited for our trip -- we leave on December 5th! 

If you are thinking of going this year, it's super easy to get between cities on the train and probably less expensive than booking a river cruise.


----------



## emilymad

For anyone who has done Tauck and Tauck Bridges which did you prefer?  We are in between the age ranges for the trips.  We are in our low 40's, no kids.  We don't mind being around kids, people younger than us, and people older than us.  It seems that the Bridges trips are a little more active which we would prefer.  There isn't much information out there on real experiences.


----------



## aggiedog

Are you looking at river cruises or land trips?  There is a LOT of info comparing various river cruise companies on CruiseCritic.


----------



## emilymad

aggiedog said:


> Are you looking at river cruises or land trips?  There is a LOT of info comparing various river cruise companies on CruiseCritic.



Land.  The river cruise that would have been our choice is already booked for next summer.


----------



## Marthasor

Has anyone traveled with National Geographic Expeditions?  I've been looking over some of the North America tours and they look quite interesting - I just have no experience with this company nor do I know anyone who has traveled with them.  Any info is greatly appreciated!


----------



## Calfan

Marthasor said:


> Has anyone traveled with National Geographic Expeditions?  I've been looking over some of the North America tours and they look quite interesting - I just have no experience with this company nor do I know anyone who has traveled with them.  Any info is greatly appreciated!



I have done 3 hiking trips with NatGeo ((England Coast to Coast, Ireland and Patagonia) and one family trip (Peru). Highly recommend.


----------



## Aelin1977

Marthasor said:


> Has anyone traveled with National Geographic Expeditions?  I've been looking over some of the North America tours and they look quite interesting - I just have no experience with this company nor do I know anyone who has traveled with them.  Any info is greatly appreciated!



We have done 3 trips with them. One Actuve Adventure to South East Asia and 2 private. After the last experience with them we will never travel with them. Horrible experience.

Also, just an FYI, if you don’t want to travel with Disney, don’t travel with Nat Geo. Disney bought Nat Geo when they purchased Fox. Nat Geo is now owned and operated by The Walt Disney Company.


----------



## sayhello

Aelin1977 said:


> We have done 3 trips with them. One Actuve Adventure to South East Asia and 2 private. After the last experience with them we will never travel with them. Horrible experience.
> 
> Also, just an FYI, if you don’t want to travel with Disney, don’t travel with Nat Geo. Disney bought Nat Geo when they purchased Fox. Nat Geo is now owned and operated by The Walt Disney Company.


Any chance you could go into detail of what was horrible about your experience?

Sayhello


----------



## WDW Lover

My husband and I are not tour people. We just figure out where we want to go on our trips and do research online and just go to those places. It ends up costing a fraction of any of those tours and transportation around Italy is inexpensive and easy! Basically just need to make sure you have a credit card with a CHIP on it, and that you have a PIN set up for that card! Other than that, not knowing the language wasn't a problem and we travelled all over the country. We don't do roller bags to make it easier to get around in the older parts of cities and just carry everything in a large backpack on our backs. We tend to travel light and can wash things in the sink overnight if we are staying more than 1 night in places - or if we have time a laundromat can sometimes fit into the schedule (I think we did that in Cuzco once). But things IN ROME are super easy to get to on your own! We have stayed in Venice, Florence, Naples, and a bunch of smaller places as well. Done day trips from Rome and Florence and Naples - saw Pompeii, etc. It honestly is pretty easy. If you are dead set on a tour, go with the cheapest one and then you can add on other things either before or after your tour starts and do them on your own if the tour doesn't include it. More than likely it is something inexpensive and fairly easy to figure out how to do on your own. My brother hired a driver for $75 for a day in Rome and the guy took him all over the place. My brother, of course, thinks he saw way more than we did on our trip....but he didn't... we saw all the same things on our own. He just felt more comfortable having a guy who spoke Italian taking them all over and showing them everything. Anyway, I got off subject. I would go with whichever tour is cheapest and then pick and choose things that maybe they didn't include to do on your own.


----------



## Aelin1977

sayhello said:


> Any chance you could go into detail of what was horrible about your experience?
> 
> Sayhello



It was a major bucket list trip for me to Australia. Our trip coordinator changed like 4 times during the planning process, the last change coming about a week before our departure to Sydney. When we got there no one was there to meet us, then walking tour we were supposed to do the first afternoon was never booked. When I tried to contact our trip coordinator she was away on vacation and wouldn’t be back until the day before we returned home. When we complained to Nat Geo when we returned they brushed it off. Last trip with Nat Geo since it was shortly after this they were bought by Disney.


----------



## sayhello

Aelin1977 said:


> It was a major bucket list trip for me to Australia. Our trip coordinator changed like 4 times during the planning process, the last change coming about a week before our departure to Sydney. When we got there no one was there to meet us, then walking tour we were supposed to do the first afternoon was never booked. When I tried to contact our trip coordinator she was away on vacation and wouldn’t be back until the day before we returned home. When we complained to Nat Geo when we returned they brushed it off. Last trip with Nat Geo since it was shortly after this they were bought by Disney.


That does sound horrible!  How was the rest of the trip once you got started?  Still chaotic?

Sayhello


----------



## Aelin1977

sayhello said:


> That does sound horrible!  How was the rest of the trip once you got started?  Still chaotic?
> 
> Sayhello



There were highs and lows as with any trip but it did smooth out after the initial chaos in Sydney. We did however feel very unsupported by Nat Geo even though the poor girl who was forced to deal with the trip issues because of the absence of the trip coordinator did try her best to make it up to us. She got us a dinner upgrade at Uluru where we got to dine under the stars and our room at Thala Beach to one that overlooked the Coral Sea.


----------



## Marthasor

Aelin1977 said:


> It was a major bucket list trip for me to Australia. Our trip coordinator changed like 4 times during the planning process, the last change coming about a week before our departure to Sydney. When we got there no one was there to meet us, then walking tour we were supposed to do the first afternoon was never booked. When I tried to contact our trip coordinator she was away on vacation and wouldn’t be back until the day before we returned home. When we complained to Nat Geo when we returned they brushed it off. Last trip with Nat Geo since it was shortly after this they were bought by Disney.



Wowzers.  Well, I was looking at their private Arizona trip, but I think I will keep looking.  We may actually end up doing the ABD Arizona trip.


----------



## sayhello

Marthasor said:


> Wowzers.  Well, I was looking at their private Arizona trip, but I think I will keep looking.  We may actually end up doing the ABD Arizona trip.


The Arizona ABD *is* a really great trip.

Sayhello


----------



## Calfan

Totally different experience with us for NatGeo, but that was before Disney purchased them. Our trip coordinators and guides were all fantastic and we were treated pretty much like royalty on our Peru trip since it was our 4th trip with NatGeo and they seemed very focused on making sure we were happy.


----------



## pjacobi

WDW Lover said:


> Basically just need to make sure you have a credit card with a CHIP on it, and that you have a PIN set up for that card!



A Chip and PIN credit card is not required for Europe!  All hotels, shops and restaurants will accept the US- style Chip and signature credit cards.

The only time that I had seen that a PIN was required was at an automated bus ticket vending machine.  I simply switched payment method to cash and inserted Euros.


-Paul


----------



## Woodview

pjacobi said:


> Chip and PIN credit card is not required for Europe! All hotels, shops and restaurants will accept the US- style Chip and signature credit cards.
> 
> The only time that I had seen that a PIN was required was at an automated bus ticket vending machine. I simply switched payment method to cash and inserted Euros.
> [/QU
> 
> NOT  TRUE           .....   CHIP & PIN       is  Normal    in Europe
> 
> OR   TAP  your    Card        OR    Your  Card is  Scanned  from your    Smart Phone


----------



## Magnum_PI

pjacobi said:


> A Chip and PIN credit card is not required for Europe!  All hotels, shops and restaurants will accept the US- style Chip and signature credit cards.
> 
> The only time that I had seen that a PIN was required was at an automated bus ticket vending machine.  I simply switched payment method to cash and inserted Euros.
> 
> 
> -Paul



I had this experience in Italy as well. US chip and signature was no problem. It’s not the norm there, but it was no problem in Italy anyway.

As you mentioned, the only exception was at automated pay stations where an actual person is not present. In that case you will want cash.


----------



## WDW Lover

pjacobi said:


> A Chip and PIN credit card is not required for Europe!  All hotels, shops and restaurants will accept the US- style Chip and signature credit cards.
> 
> The only time that I had seen that a PIN was required was at an automated bus ticket vending machine.  I simply switched payment method to cash and inserted Euros.
> 
> 
> -Paul


Yes, bus ticket machines AND trains are the same way. We tend to not carry cash much... but you would need a Chip and PIN for that card for those machines. We were in several small towns where that was our only option. As we don't tend to carry a lot of cash and put most on our cards, it was a necessity.


----------



## pjacobi

It is a cultural difference that thrifty Europeans tend to carry more cash and avoid credit and credit cards. However, this is slowly changing as Europeans discover the advantage of paying with a credit card.

You need to adjust your payment method to match the local custom.  Maybe one day Europeans will become more comfortable with credit cards and maybe Americans will all get Chip and PIN - SOMEDAY! Until then, you need to be aware of cultural difference.


-Paul


----------



## Woodview

Paul      We do use  Credit Cards      But they have  Chip & Pin  in Them.

    By the Way         U.S.A.    people     CAN   use   their     Wells Fargo    Chip & pin    Debit & Credit Cards 

   in European     ATM   Machines        ( No need to worry  about language  as it  translates into  English)

   Money comes out in Euros      less  exchange rate  & you get a print out receipt 

  My Wells Fargo    card does anyway & I do not live in Florida.


----------



## sayhello

Woodview said:


> Paul      We do use  Credit Cards      But they have  Chip & Pin  in Them.
> 
> By the Way         U.S.A.    people     CAN   use   their     Wells Fargo    Chip & pin    Debit & Credit Cards
> 
> in European     ATM   Machines        ( No need to worry  about language  as it  translates into  English)
> 
> Money comes out in Euros      less  exchange rate  & you get a print out receipt
> 
> My Wells Fargo    card does anyway & I do not live in Florida.


Wells Fargo is not a popular bank here.  I don't know anyone who has Wells Fargo credit cards anymore.  Mostly Chase and Capital One and Discover to my knowledge.

Sayhello


----------



## AquaDame

We have accounts with several banks, large and small.. virtually all of them have sent us chip and pin cards within the last couple of years for credit and debit accounts. I don't think this is the problem it once was...?


----------



## sayhello

So I got an email from Ambercrombie & Kent about an American West trip that sounded kind of interesting.  Small group, the founder & CEO of A&K would be there, multiple National Parks, etc.  They're having a presentation on Wed to go over it, so I scanned down the email to check out more of it, then came to this bit:



> _Limited to 22 guests | 12 days from $135,000 | June 1–12, 2022
> Single supplement from $20,000_


   Um, I don't think so!!!

Now, granted, the title of the trip is:   The American West by Private Air 2022

But still!   I guess I kind of missed that whole "Private Air" part!

I really need to win the lottery!

Sayhello


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

sayhello said:


> I really need to win the lottery!
> 
> Sayhello


You and me both!


----------



## Mathmagicland

sayhello said:


> I kind of missed that whole "Private Air" part!


For the same money, you can go only private jet 24 days around the world with NatGeo -


https://www.nationalgeographic.com/...][type]=all&filters[2][values][0]=Private Jet


----------



## aggiedog

Have I got a bargain for you!  This Road Scholar private jet trip is only $60,000!

https://www.roadscholar.org/find-an-adventure/23231/discover-the-world-by-private-plane


----------



## laceltris3

Received an interesting from Tauck today with some information about their 2021 travel as well as current plans (excerpted below):

Just over one year ago we operated our first program after a nine month pause, _Winter in Yellowstone_. Our guest satisfaction along with our own team’s confidence that “we can do this” encouraged us to rapidly open up new destinations as borders and policies permitted. By the year’s end, we had traveled with tens of thousands of guests on nearly 900 departures to 38 countries across five continents. More than 200 Tauck Directors were back on the road for Tauck last year. Our river fleet sailed across Europe, including on the Danube, Rhine, Seine, Rhône and Douro rivers. We operated small ships in Iceland, Greece, the Mediterranean, the Dalmatian Coast and the Galápagos. We read often in the press about the challenge companies face with employee retention, and we are thankful our office team, our TDs, as well as our captains, chefs and key personnel across our fleets have remained committed to our mission and eager to continue making a positive difference in our world. 

The overall feedback from guests and travel advisors was excellent and guest satisfaction scores were on par, or higher, than 2019 levels. We are grateful our 2021 restart was an unqualified success! 

2022 demand is extremely strong and we will be operating our full contingent of land tours, family adventures, river and small ship cruises. Our guests are clearly eager to travel. In our recent guest survey, 95% of over 5,000 participants have received their booster shot and an additional 3% told us that they would do so should it be required by some countries for border entry. In coordination with our global partners, we will continue to keep all our travel policies and destination requirements updated *here* and will notify you directly should anything change with your upcoming travel plans. 

Like you, we understand the impact inflation is having. Costs will most likely increase even more in the travel sector as demand further recovers in 2022 and 2023. We have taken many steps with our travel partners to mitigate these added costs, wherever possible. The resulting price certainty will provide you peace of mind through 2023.

The most desired 2022 trips and dates are selling quickly so, where possible, we are adding departure dates to key regions such as Switzerland, Italy, Canada and the US National Parks. To learn more, visit our *Featured Tours and Cruises*. Also, I encourage you to check out our *Travel Forums*. They are a great way to connect with the Tauck community of travelers to share insights and experiences.


----------



## AquaDame

We've returned just today from a lovely trip to Ecuador including a 7-night Galapagos cruise aboard the Letty with Ecoventura. We went with 'itinerary B' which hits the north and western islands and had a fabulous time. SUCH a good time in fact, we're trying to see if we can manage to turn around and do the other itinerary later this year. Tourism is still under 50% for them, so the islands are even more deserted than usual and the animals have been changing their behaviors a little now that humans are even less of a prescence... hopefully we pull it off before things are swinging full speed again!  

We also spent 4 nights out at Sacha Lodge along the Napo river to experience the Amazon Rainforest. We had a lovely time there as well, though it was too buggy for my comfort despite their best efforts (they do an AMAZING job when you think of what they have to deal with, I just was not raised to be a camper and don't think of tarantulas on the guard rails, ants in my boots, and moths/grasshoppers hitting my face nightly as a vacation!). Still very much worth it though and I'm very glad we went!


----------



## MerissaAndMomLoveDis

My March ABD got cancelled, so I am in where do I want to go in 2022 mode?  I am thinking of booking a Viking Rhine Christmas Markets cruise.  I have never even considered this before, so I am completely starting from scratch.  Just me and my college aged daughter.  This is a bucket list item request from her.  Would likely do a mid price category/Veranda or French balcony room.

 The only departure date we could do would leave Dec 18.  Both the Southbound from Amsterdam and Northbound from Basel are options departing that date.  We would likely have no or only one pre-days, but would have more days to stay after the cruise, so I am leaning toward starting in Basel, ending in Amsterdam, but would love to hear advice on that. 

Does anyone have any tips or advice regarding this trip, or about Viking, to share?  Is there a better side, is there a better floor, should you try to be closer to the lounge end, is it better to start in Amsterdam or Basel?  Thanks, in advance!


----------



## aggiedog

Go to Cruisecritic and look at their river cruising forum.  There are several good topics stickied at the top regarding river cruising in general, and comparing lines.  Viking gets 98% of the press/advertising, but it is not necessarily the best line for everyone.

As for the Rhine, you will be going upstream from Amsterdam to Basel, so transit takes longer which means possibly shorter times in port.  It really doesn't matter what side you're on, as there is scenery on both sides, exact docking locations are fluid regarding which side of the river or boat it will be, and it's not uncommon to be rafted up against another boat anyways.  You most likely won't use any sort of balcony in December.  Our October Rhine cruise was chilly, and the entire top of the boat is open with chairs to lounge on, with a better 360 degree view.  I liked Amsterdam over Basel for extra touring days.


----------



## aggiedog

AquaDame said:


> We've returned just today from a lovely trip to Ecuador including a 7-night Galapagos cruise aboard the Letty with Ecoventura. We went with 'itinerary B' which hits the north and western islands and had a fabulous time. SUCH a good time in fact, we're trying to see if we can manage to turn around and do the other itinerary later this year. Tourism is still under 50% for them, so the islands are even more deserted than usual and the animals have been changing their behaviors a little now that humans are even less of a prescence... hopefully we pull it off before things are swinging full speed again!
> 
> We also spent 4 nights out at Sacha Lodge along the Napo river to experience the Amazon Rainforest. We had a lovely time there as well, though it was too buggy for my comfort despite their best efforts (they do an AMAZING job when you think of what they have to deal with, I just was not raised to be a camper and don't think of tarantulas on the guard rails, ants in my boots, and moths/grasshoppers hitting my face nightly as a vacation!). Still very much worth it though and I'm very glad we went!



My dh is pushing to schedule a Galapagos cruise and I'd already put Ecoventura on our short list.   Why did you pick the B itinerary?  Did you arrange the amazon portion yourself or use an agent/company?  I'd love to hear specifics.


----------



## AquaDame

aggiedog said:


> My dh is pushing to schedule a Galapagos cruise and I'd already put Ecoventura on our short list.   Why did you pick the B itinerary?  Did you arrange the amazon portion yourself or use an agent/company?  I'd love to hear specifics.



We chose B based on what we wanted to see - it seemed to have more snorkeling opportunities, a greater variety of wildlife called out, and more opportunities to see penguins (which I was particularly excited about). It also goes further, and we like sailing! We put together a spreadsheet and marked which stops each day sounded best to both of us - I copied it below.

We arranged the Amazon portion ourselves... kind of? Honestly the way it worked out was I picked the lodge (easy choice since I need A/C - I've given myself heat exhaustion before coming from the pacnw in winter to hot humid weather which isn't fun) and the lodge did the rest. They can arrange your flights, transfers, and for us also arranged for our covid testing for us in Coca before heading home. They brought a medical team to their office and did it right there as we transferred from the canoe to the bus to head to the airport. My coworker stayed at a different place a couple of years ago and loved it as well. We went with Sacha Lodge and she stayed at La Selva. FWIW they told us that National Geographic had their entire lodge rented out a couple weeks after our stay which made me feel better about my choice... I'd worried my insistence on A/C might've held us back from something better.  

Edited to add - I'm not sure when your schedule would allow you to go, but we had SUCH a great time with lower crowds (yes, even in the Galapagos! Far fewer boats in each port and stop) and skipped the city portions of our itinerary due to covid which meant... more time with the animals! We went to N Seymour for example even though that's on the A itinerary. We still went to the tortoise sanctuary but there was no time to shop or have dinner on Santa Cruz to keep us in our bubble better. We didn't have a trail walk on the last day, but that may have been something for their other ships. The website doesn't always call out which is which very well - we were on the Letty. The only other changes were made by vote aboard - we skipped one of the kayaking/paddle board afternoons to spend more time whale watching as they were going nuts that day. We saw a lot of minke and orcas instead with that time, as well as one humpback, and saw lots of rays doing backflips which I never even knew they did. It was amazing!


Itinerary BItinerary ACentro de Crianza Jacinto Gordillo - Breeding program for tortoisesEl Junco Lake - hike to lake.Prince Philip’s Steps/hike on Genovesa (?). Kayak/paddleboard or zodiac/deep water snorkel by the cliffs. Later afternoon Dawin Bay; beach, can swim w/ sea lions.Cerro Brujo - zodiac ride to spot wildlife. Then beach time - you can snorkel from the beach if you like or paddleboard, etc. Punta Pitt  - hikeLas Bachas - take a walk and/or snorkel. Afternoon Cerro  Dragon - walk on the trail.Punta Suarez on Espanola - Hike. Ceviche demo. Snorkel Tortuga  Rock. Later, Gardner Bay - beach time. Snorkel from the beach, paddleboard, etc.Punta Vicente Roca - zodiac. Snorkel (w/ penguins). After lunch scenic sail. Later, Urbina Bay on ISABELA  - "explore" so I assume walk/hike.Punta Cormorant @ Floreana - walk around to a lagoon. Devil’s Crown or Champion Islet - snorkeling. In the afternoon - Post Office Bay. Baroness Point - zodiac excursion.Punta Espinozaon FERNANDINA - walk around. Opportunity to snorkel. Whale watching. Afternoon, SANTIAGO (James) Island - walk and snorkel. Tagus  Cove - fast hike to a lookout or snorkelPuerto Ayora, SANTA  CRUZ - breeding center & Darwin research center. Shop. Drive to lava tunnels, then visit a tortoise hacienda. Stay ashore for dinner if you like.RABIDA - trail to flamingos or snorkel. Walk to grotto, snorkel from beach if you wish. Sail/watch for dolphins.Bartolome: 2 options - stenuous hike OR zodiac ride to look for penguins. Wade on the beach, or snorkel (possibly with the penguins). Later, zodiac Black  Turtle  Cove.Puerto Ayora, SANTA CRUZ - breeding center & Darwin research center. Shop. Drive to lava tunnels, then visit a tortoise hacienda. Stay ashore for dinner if you like.Walk around South Plaza. During lunch, sail to North Seymour Island. Snorkel in deep water if you wish.Cerro  Tijeretas - trail walk. Visit Isla Lobos early in the morning.InterpretationCenter on San Cristobal. Can walk a paved trail.


----------



## aggiedog

Thanks for your info, and that spread sheet!  I'll show it to DH.  It sounds like an amazing trip.  DH is the type that will say "since we're down there, let's see XYZ also" so he also wants to tack on Machu Picchu.  I'd rather do more in one area than skip around barely touching a bunch.  Lots to think about.


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

MerissaAndMomLoveDis said:


> My March ABD got cancelled, so I am in where do I want to go in 2022 mode?  I am thinking of booking a Viking Rhine Christmas Markets cruise.  I have never even considered this before, so I am completely starting from scratch.  Just me and my college aged daughter.  This is a bucket list item request from her.  Would likely do a mid price category/Veranda or French balcony room.
> 
> The only departure date we could do would leave Dec 18.  Both the Southbound from Amsterdam and Northbound from Basel are options departing that date.  We would likely have no or only one pre-days, but would have more days to stay after the cruise, so I am leaning toward starting in Basel, ending in Amsterdam, but would love to hear advice on that.
> 
> Does anyone have any tips or advice regarding this trip, or about Viking, to share?  Is there a better side, is there a better floor, should you try to be closer to the lounge end, is it better to start in Amsterdam or Basel?  Thanks, in advance!


I did the Rhine River cruise with ABD and my kiddos. Since there isn't much to do in Basel, we spent a day and night in Zurich, then took the train to Basel on the morning the ship left port. I had plenty of time to walk around Basel, have a light lunch and go into a few shops. We stayed in Amsterdam 3 nights after the cruise -- there is so much to see and do in Amsterdam. I'd definitely recommend northbound from Basel for that reason. If you want to see the Ann Frank house (a must see IMHO), then book your tickets far in advance and try to get entry as early as possible as long lines form (even for those with tickets). Also highly recommend the Van Gogh museum and shipping some of the world's finest cheeses home to yourself (most cheese shops offer this service)!


----------



## tink1970

MerissaAndMomLoveDis said:


> My March ABD got cancelled, so I am in where do I want to go in 2022 mode?  I am thinking of booking a Viking Rhine Christmas Markets cruise.  I have never even considered this before, so I am completely starting from scratch.  Just me and my college aged daughter.  This is a bucket list item request from her.  Would likely do a mid price category/Veranda or French balcony room.
> 
> The only departure date we could do would leave Dec 18.  Both the Southbound from Amsterdam and Northbound from Basel are options departing that date.  We would likely have no or only one pre-days, but would have more days to stay after the cruise, so I am leaning toward starting in Basel, ending in Amsterdam, but would love to hear advice on that.
> 
> Does anyone have any tips or advice regarding this trip, or about Viking, to share?  Is there a better side, is there a better floor, should you try to be closer to the lounge end, is it better to start in Amsterdam or Basel?  Thanks, in advance!



VIking caters definitely to an older crowd so that could be a consideration with a college aged travel companion. We did the Rhine ABD Christmas Markets the one year it was offered and flew into AMS early and spent a couple of days exploring. I echo @WDWGroupie and strongly recommend getting tickets to the Anne Frank Huis (they are limited and sell out quickly-the House is tiny and can only handle a certain number of people) and Van Gough Museum as well as the Rijksmuseum. Sailing down the Rhine in December is magical!


----------



## AquaDame

aggiedog said:


> Thanks for your info, and that spread sheet!  I'll show it to DH.  It sounds like an amazing trip.  DH is the type that will say "since we're down there, let's see XYZ also" so he also wants to tack on Machu Picchu.  I'd rather do more in one area than skip around barely touching a bunch.  Lots to think about.



That was our original plan too but January is one of the worst times to head to Machu Pichu..! When we head down again in Dec the plan is to spend 4 full days in Belize as well but I feel the same, like it may not be enough time. Of course... is there ever?


----------



## nemofans

AquaDame said:


> We chose B based on what we wanted to see - it seemed to have more snorkeling opportunities, a greater variety of wildlife called out, and more opportunities to see penguins (which I was particularly excited about). It also goes further, and we like sailing! We put together a spreadsheet and marked which stops each day sounded best to both of us - I copied it below.
> 
> We arranged the Amazon portion ourselves... kind of? Honestly the way it worked out was I picked the lodge (easy choice since I need A/C - I've given myself heat exhaustion before coming from the pacnw in winter to hot humid weather which isn't fun) and the lodge did the rest. They can arrange your flights, transfers, and for us also arranged for our covid testing for us in Coca before heading home. They brought a medical team to their office and did it right there as we transferred from the canoe to the bus to head to the airport. My coworker stayed at a different place a couple of years ago and loved it as well. We went with Sacha Lodge and she stayed at La Selva. FWIW they told us that National Geographic had their entire lodge rented out a couple weeks after our stay which made me feel better about my choice... I'd worried my insistence on A/C might've held us back from something better.
> 
> Edited to add - I'm not sure when your schedule would allow you to go, but we had SUCH a great time with lower crowds (yes, even in the Galapagos! Far fewer boats in each port and stop) and skipped the city portions of our itinerary due to covid which meant... more time with the animals! We went to N Seymour for example even though that's on the A itinerary. We still went to the tortoise sanctuary but there was no time to shop or have dinner on Santa Cruz to keep us in our bubble better. We didn't have a trail walk on the last day, but that may have been something for their other ships. The website doesn't always call out which is which very well - we were on the Letty. The only other changes were made by vote aboard - we skipped one of the kayaking/paddle board afternoons to spend more time whale watching as they were going nuts that day. We saw a lot of minke and orcas instead with that time, as well as one humpback, and saw lots of rays doing backflips which I never even knew they did. It was amazing!
> 
> 
> Itinerary BItinerary ACentro de Crianza Jacinto Gordillo - Breeding program for tortoisesEl Junco Lake - hike to lake.Prince Philip’s Steps/hike on Genovesa (?). Kayak/paddleboard or zodiac/deep water snorkel by the cliffs. Later afternoon Dawin Bay; beach, can swim w/ sea lions.Cerro Brujo - zodiac ride to spot wildlife. Then beach time - you can snorkel from the beach if you like or paddleboard, etc. Punta Pitt  - hikeLas Bachas - take a walk and/or snorkel. Afternoon Cerro  Dragon - walk on the trail.Punta Suarez on Espanola - Hike. Ceviche demo. Snorkel Tortuga  Rock. Later, Gardner Bay - beach time. Snorkel from the beach, paddleboard, etc.Punta Vicente Roca - zodiac. Snorkel (w/ penguins). After lunch scenic sail. Later, Urbina Bay on ISABELA  - "explore" so I assume walk/hike.Punta Cormorant @ Floreana - walk around to a lagoon. Devil’s Crown or Champion Islet - snorkeling. In the afternoon - Post Office Bay. Baroness Point - zodiac excursion.Punta Espinozaon FERNANDINA - walk around. Opportunity to snorkel. Whale watching. Afternoon, SANTIAGO (James) Island - walk and snorkel. Tagus  Cove - fast hike to a lookout or snorkelPuerto Ayora, SANTA  CRUZ - breeding center & Darwin research center. Shop. Drive to lava tunnels, then visit a tortoise hacienda. Stay ashore for dinner if you like.RABIDA - trail to flamingos or snorkel. Walk to grotto, snorkel from beach if you wish. Sail/watch for dolphins.Bartolome: 2 options - stenuous hike OR zodiac ride to look for penguins. Wade on the beach, or snorkel (possibly with the penguins). Later, zodiac Black  Turtle  Cove.Puerto Ayora, SANTA CRUZ - breeding center & Darwin research center. Shop. Drive to lava tunnels, then visit a tortoise hacienda. Stay ashore for dinner if you like.Walk around South Plaza. During lunch, sail to North Seymour Island. Snorkel in deep water if you wish.Cerro  Tijeretas - trail walk. Visit Isla Lobos early in the morning.InterpretationCenter on San Cristobal. Can walk a paved trail.


I am looking at possibly booking with Ecoventura.  How much are they involved with transportation/transfers with airports?  Is there anything I should know b4 starting the booking process?  Thanks!


----------



## AquaDame

nemofans said:


> I am looking at possibly booking with Ecoventura.  How much are they involved with transportation/transfers with airports?  Is there anything I should know b4 starting the booking process?  Thanks!



They seemed to approach it as wanting to be in control; they wanted to book our flights for us to San Cristobal and if we hadn't it seemed like we would be on our own for the transfers. We originally wanted to depart from San Cristobal a couple of days later which was no problem (they wouldn't have taken us to the airport morning of though) but in the end we decided to do something else so they switched us back to their block of seats the disembark day. Our flights from Quito were $500pp - the plane makes a stop in Guayaquil and then continues on. They recommend arriving in Quito or Guayaquil two days prior though only one is necessary, and asked which hotel we were at. The day before there was a paper slipped under our door that told us when to be at the airport - a rep was just inside departures and told us everything we needed to do, got our boarding passes etc for us. They could probably arrange a car service for you to the airport if you asked, but they may also just give recommendations. On the way home they took us to the airport and got us all in line, but did not assist with the actual check in that time. 

They'll also offer to pay the park fees and such ahead of time - $100 per person for the park fees, and $20 pp for a transit card. Otherwise you'd need to have cash at the airport to pay the fees. The initial deposit is 1K with the balance due 60 days prior. Up to 90 days prior you can cancel and lose half the deposit, between that and 60 days you forfeit the whole deposit and under 60 days the whole fare is nonrefundable. You can pay by bank or wire transfer, or they can send you a paypal link. 

Happy to answer any more questions if I can!


----------



## aggiedog

Thank you for the info.  We met with our "we want to go to Galapagos" friends last night to compare companies.  The consensus was that everyone wants to do Macchu Picchu the same trip.  So much to look at!


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

I just got back from a very last minute trip to Amsterdam (with a day trip to Brussels). I had the absolute best time and would (and will) do it again in a heartbeat.

I stayed in the DePijp area at the Sir Albert -- it's clean, contemporary and a 2 min walk to the subway (bookable on Marriott points or FNCs) for 6 nights. Not sure if I'd recommend the hotel but that's more because of several service hiccups; if the price is right I will stay again because I loved the location and it's not expensive. Took the train early one morning to Brussels and back at 7:00pm.

I was able to see so much; public transport in Amsterdam is extremely efficient (subway and tram). So many museums (buy museum card if you go). Highly recommend the MOCO (Museum of Contemporary Art) and Van Gogh Museum, I also loved Museum Our Lord in the Attic and the Portguese Synagogue (which is stunning). I didn't try for Anne Frank House because I've been before and knew the likelihood of last minute tickets was close to nil. Took a bus to Keukenhof Gardens for a half day visit (on the day it opened for the first time in 2 years!); no tulips yet (first week of May), but plenty of gorgeous flowers and Japanese cherry blossoms in full bloom. Walk into any cheese decent cheese store (I went to De Kaaskamer in the Nine Streets) and they will give you samples of all kinds of cheeses, plus they ship to N. America (I got back on Monday and my cheese arrived on Thursday). Definitely try Dutch pancakes -- I went to Amsterdam Pancakes and highly recommend it. Food from grocery stores is quite good -- I would often grab a fresh juice for lunch (so many different blends and all were delicious).

Next year I will fly to Amsterdam, train to Brussels for 1 night, then train to Paris for 5 nights and fly home. I am hooked on solo travel. I honestly don't know when or if I will use an organized tour again. So much freedom with solo travel and public transport in most parts of Europe is fast, efficient and very cost-effective. I did not miss being led around town and kept on a schedule.

One of my favorite parts of the trip was a chocolate making workshop in Brussels -- so much fun and learned a lot. After the workshop I was walking to the Grand Place and stumbled upon a vintage shop. I scored a Burberry trench and black Longchamp Le Pliage for 200 euros (for both). The trench is stunning -- I'm obsessed with it (cost new is 1,350 euros).

If anyone is thinking of a trip to Europe on your own, don't think about it, just do it! I am already planning my solo trip next spring. Heading to London, Edinburgh and Dublin with dd a month from today and can't wait for that trip!

Sir Albert Bathroom & Bedroom



MOCO


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

That is awesome and love the pics! I have a Burberry trench from about 25 years ago--timeless!


----------



## Woodview

To  " WDW" Groupie

  Well done in enjoying your trip to Amsterdam & Brussels

. We will be flying , from Cork to Amsterdam    and on to family  ,after Easter. so we will have a  car.

for sightseeing 

  For your  next  trip to Amsterdam   look  up  The Fletcher Hotel " Group   & The  Logis  Hotel chain .


          Now    How did you find   the way of paying  for things ( Credit Cards )different in Europe ?

          How did you  pay for train tickets   & entrance to Keukenhof Gardens ?

  Was it by  Chip & Pin    or    Swipe  your card ?

  I  ask  as  we only  have   Chip & Pin     & now   Tap your card  for small amounts 

           Cheques   are  gone  &  " swiping " your card has not been used  for ages


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Woodview said:


> To  " WDW" Groupie
> 
> Well done in enjoying your trip to Amsterdam & Brussels
> 
> . We will be flying , from Cork to Amsterdam    and on to family  ,after Easter. so we will have a  car.
> 
> for sightseeing
> 
> For your  next  trip to Amsterdam   look  up  The Fletcher Hotel " Group   & The  Logis  Hotel chain .
> 
> 
> Now    How did you find   the way of paying  for things ( Credit Cards )different in Europe ?
> 
> How did you  pay for train tickets   & entrance to Keukenhof Gardens ?
> 
> Was it by  Chip & Pin    or    Swipe  your card ?
> 
> I  ask  as  we only  have   Chip & Pin     & now   Tap your card  for small amounts
> 
> Cheques   are  gone  &  " swiping " your card has not been used  for ages


The Fletcher Hotel looks to be quite far outside of the city center, so without a car it would not work, at least not for me.

I used tap for most of my transactions, the odd time I had to insert my cc, but it was never a problem without a pin. 

Have a great trip!


----------



## sportel

Wondering if anyone has any experience with youth / teen group travel? My DS 15 is interested in doing a group trip this summer. Our older DS did a service/cultural immersion trip with a Canadian organization pre-pandemic, but they have since ceased operations for a variety of reasons. We have looked at Travel For Teens but it is hard to find much info online. All reviews are glowing, which makes me a little nervous  Obviously our first priority is safety, and supervision is critical - we are not looking for a party experience. Any advice appreciated!


----------



## BluesTraveler

sportel said:


> Wondering if anyone has any experience with youth / teen group travel? My DS 15 is interested in doing a group trip this summer. Our older DS did a service/cultural immersion trip with a Canadian organization pre-pandemic, but they have since ceased operations for a variety of reasons. We have looked at Travel For Teens but it is hard to find much info online. All reviews are glowing, which makes me a little nervous  Obviously our first priority is safety, and supervision is critical - we are not looking for a party experience. Any advice appreciated!


We know 2 families whose kids have done Moondance, maybe check that out.


----------



## BluesTraveler

BluesTraveler said:


> We know 2 families whose kids have done Moondance, maybe check that out.


I should have added, they had great experiences.


----------



## WDWmom08

I was hoping to get some input on Italy. We have done 2 ABDs - Costa Rica and Italy - Rome, Florence, and Venice. My DH wants to do another Italy trip for my DDs high school graduation. Looking at Italy - Amalfi itineraries for Summer 23. Just saw the Sicily trip, that would work, too. I am torn between Tauck and ABD. I feel like ABD is a known for us; but I have some concerns – tour numbers, age skewing young and not having older kids, cancellations (as ABD seems to be canceling more than others). My concerns with Tauck are – skewing too old, 1 guide vs. 2, cost (the three we were looking at are all significantly more expensive than ABD), and not having the pixie dust.  Any insight is appreciated.  Thanks!


----------



## sayhello

WDWmom08 said:


> I was hoping to get some input on Italy. We have done 2 ABDs - Costa Rica and Italy - Rome, Florence, and Venice. My DH wants to do another Italy trip for my DDs high school graduation. Looking at Italy - Amalfi itineraries for Summer 23. Just saw the Sicily trip, that would work, too. I am torn between Tauck and ABD. I feel like ABD is a known for us; but I have some concerns – tour numbers, age skewing young and not having older kids, cancellations (as ABD seems to be canceling more than others). My concerns with Tauck are – skewing too old, 1 guide vs. 2, cost (the three we were looking at are all significantly more expensive than ABD), and not having the pixie dust.  Any insight is appreciated.  Thanks!


In regards to your concern about skewing too old, have you been looking at Tauck Bridges trips?  Those are Tauck's Family trips, and it sounds like that's more what you are looking for.

Sayhello


----------



## WDWmom08

sayhello said:


> In regards to your concern about skewing too old, have you been looking at Tauck Bridges trips?  Those are Tauck's Family trips, and it sounds like that's more what you are looking for.
> 
> Sayhello


The only family trip the have is the Rome to Venice which we have already done with ABD.  They other trips we were looking at were all listed as Classic Land Journeys.


----------



## wdhinn89

WDWmom08 said:


> I was hoping to get some input on Italy. We have done 2 ABDs - Costa Rica and Italy - Rome, Florence, and Venice. My DH wants to do another Italy trip for my DDs high school graduation. Looking at Italy - Amalfi itineraries for Summer 23. Just saw the Sicily trip, that would work, too. I am torn between Tauck and ABD. I feel like ABD is a known for us; but I have some concerns – tour numbers, age skewing young and not having older kids, cancellations (as ABD seems to be canceling more than others). My concerns with Tauck are – skewing too old, 1 guide vs. 2, cost (the three we were looking at are all significantly more expensive than ABD), and not having the pixie dust.  Any insight is appreciated.  Thanks!


We did Venice, Florence and Rome through Tauck and thought it was wonderful! Highly recommend.  When we booked, the agent told us what the ages of the other young adults were. My kids were 16 and 19 at the time, we went in July, when school was out, and there were several families.  It was perfect.


----------



## WishUponAStarryNight

WDWmom08 said:


> The only family trip the have is the Rome to Venice which we have already done with ABD.  They other trips we were looking at were all listed as Classic Land Journeys.


We’re doing the Rome/Sorrento trip with Tauck Bridges next month. May be too repetitive, but perhaps another option.


----------



## emilymad

WishUponAStarryNight said:


> We’re doing the Rome/Sorrento trip with Tauck Bridges next month. May be too repetitive, but perhaps another option.



We have been considering this trip.  I would love to hear what you think of it when you return.


----------



## OKW Lover

WDWmom08 said:


> My DH wants to do another Italy trip for my DDs high school graduation.


Consider Northern Italy & Switzerland.  Really spectacular!


----------



## minie_meese

For those looking at the Galapagos, seriously look into Celebrity Cruiseline’s Galapagos itinerary. We just came back from   The Celebrity Flora’s Inner loop and have booked the Outer Loop for spring 2024. It is all inclusive with multiple excursion options every day. We snorkeled once or twice most days. There are 3 different ships with the Flora being the larges. There are wonderful naturalists for every 10 guests. Kids over 6 are welcome but the ship has little of interest for young kids. There were 2 or 3 teenagers on our trip and nobody younger. We did the pre and Quito tour. You fly into Quito where you stay at the JW Marriott. The following day you or Quito and the Equator museum. The next day you travel from Quito to the Galapagos on a chartered flight. After the Galapagos you fly back to Quito. The great thing we found was that Celebrity took care of everything - required testing, all paperwork. We did not do the Pachu Picu add on but stayed 2 nights in Quito. Next time I’d stay only 1 night in Quito or do Macy Picu. I compare the trip very favorably to all of the ABD trips I’ve done. I did a blog of our trip on Squarespace.

Also, for anyone doing the Rhine River starting or ending in Basel , take the train to Lucerne for the day. You will not be disappointed.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

DH just saw this advertised, and it sounds awesome. https://www.rssc.com/cruises/VOY231003/summary Just wondering whether anyone has done a trip with Regent. We have been anxious to get to Turkey and Jerusalem so this sounded like a lovely way of doing it. If anyone is familiar with the areas this cruise goes to, I'd love to hear opinions as well. I think we'd look into doing the post-trip as well. We've done the Greece ABD so we have been to Athens and Santorini.


----------



## sayhello

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> DH just saw this advertised, and it sounds awesome. https://www.rssc.com/cruises/VOY231003/summary Just wondering whether anyone has done a trip with Regent. We have been anxious to get to Turkey and Jerusalem so this sounded like a lovely way of doing it. If anyone is familiar with the areas this cruise goes to, I'd love to hear opinions as well. I think we'd look into doing the post-trip as well. We've done the Greece ABD so we have been to Athens and Santorini.


Of the list, I've only been to Athens, Santorini and Jerusalem.  Jerusalem is, of course, fascinating.  

Sayhello


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

sayhello said:


> Of the list, I've only been to Athens, Santorini and Jerusalem.  Jerusalem is, of course, fascinating.
> 
> Sayhello


It’s been on our list for a long time!


----------



## sayhello

CaliforniaGirl09 said:


> It’s been on our list for a long time!


Well, let me know if you have any specific questions.  I'll try to answer!   

Sayhello


----------



## rlk

O

I forgot to add the quote.


----------



## rlk

sportel said:


> Wondering if anyone has any experience with youth / teen group travel? My DS 15 is interested in doing a group trip this summer. Our older DS did a service/cultural immersion trip with a Canadian organization pre-pandemic, but they have since ceased operations for a variety of reasons. We have looked at Travel For Teens but it is hard to find much info online. All reviews are glowing, which makes me a little nervous  Obviously our first priority is safety, and supervision is critical - we are not looking for a party experience. Any advice appreciated!


One of my sons really enjoyed the teen tour he took to  Iceland and Greece with West Coast Connections.  He went with three other friends and they were the only boys in their group.


----------



## CaliforniaGirl09

sayhello said:


> Well, let me know if you have any specific questions.  I'll try to answer!
> 
> Sayhello


Will to--thanks!


----------



## AddictedtoTravel

I have a credit on British Airways that I must use by next year. I'm thinking of taking a solo trip and can't decide where and if there's a group (Classic Journeys, Abercrombie & Kent, Wild Women Expeditions...) that works well for a solo traveler. Any suggestions?


----------



## sayhello

AddictedtoTravel said:


> I have a credit on British Airways that I must use by next year. I'm thinking of taking a solo trip and can't decide where and if there's a group (Classic Journeys, Abercrombie & Kent, Wild Women Expeditions...) that works well for a solo traveler. Any suggestions?


I've only traveled with 2 other adventure travel companies besides ABD, and that's Backroads and Classic Journeys.  I did both trips as a solo traveler.  The Backroads trips was several years ago, but was wonderful.  They actually have trips that are designated as "Couples, Friends & Solos" trips.  They have greatly expanded their scope of trips in recent years.  I did a Walking/Hiking tour of Nova Scotia, and really enjoyed it.  I haven't traveled with them since I started doing ABDs, mostly because, until recently, most of their trips were only like 5 or 6 days, and I like longer trips.  I think they're doing some longer itineraries now.  I'm definitely reconsidering traveling with them again.

I also took a trip with Classic Journeys this past October.  It was a "small group", Adults Only departure.  It was also a really good trip.  I definitely enjoyed the small group part (there were 11 of us and 2 Guides), and it was a really good itinerary.  The Guides were very good (although not quite Adventure Guide caliber).  

I would recommend either for a solo trip.  Let me know if you have any questions about solo traveling!

Sayhello


----------



## aggiedog

I have a family member who does Classic Journeys as a solo regularly and really likes them.  We've done one trip together with CJ and they do run a really nice trip but it was just her, me and my dh.  The will run a trip even with minimal participants, so our Morocco journey ended up being a private tour when the other few pulled out due to Covid concerns.  

I have another good friend who does Road Scholar as a solo a lot, and the RS trips I've been on usually have several solo travelers, all women.  It is not luxury travel (more mid level), but very well run.  I will say the people I've met on my RS trips have been some of my favorite parts of the trip, which is saying something.  I'm a total introvert and have no need to make friends while traveling. LOL


----------



## AddictedtoTravel

Thank you aggiedog and sayhello! Morocco is at the top of the list for the moment. I too like the smaller group size potentially, but also don't want it too small . The Classic Journeys Morocco is short, 8 nights.  Intrepid has a trip that's 15 days and is a "Premium" level trip. They go to all of the places on my list. Anyone have any experience with them?


----------



## Caldisney

AddictedtoTravel said:


> Thank you aggiedog and sayhello! Morocco is at the top of the list for the moment. I too like the smaller group size potentially, but also don't want it too small . The Classic Journeys Morocco is short, 8 nights.  Intrepid has a trip that's 15 days and is a "Premium" level trip. They go to all of the places on my list. Anyone have any experience with them?


I had great experiences on Intrepid’s 15 day Best of Morocco trip and their Cuba trip for US citizens. On both trips, we covered a lot of ground with knowledgable and friendly local tour leaders and small groups-12 total in Morocco and 7 in Cuba. Both trips had a comfortable mix of solo travelers, friend groups, and couples. Currently trying to settle on my next destination!


----------



## Grifdog22

Anyone ever travel with Contiki?


----------



## *WDW*Groupie*

Grifdog22 said:


> Anyone ever travel with Contiki?


My sister did 2 Contiki trips a few, ahem, decades ago. Not sure what they are now, but back then they were for 18-35 year olds. She really enjoyed both trips, but I don't think they were luxury.


----------



## wdhinn89

Thinking of going to England, Scotland & Wales for my 35th anniversary with my husband and 2 adult children, we used Tauck when we went to Italy and absolutely loved the tour, hotels, group size etc. Unfortunately, they only offer a 14 day tour and my husband and kids want to keep it to a 10 day tour, can anyone recommend a tour company that is very comparable to Tauck?


----------

